# My goodness, does it ever end



## squatting dog

A report from the CDC shows that currently the number of deaths that are caused by COVID-19 ONLY  are actually 5%   and that number may actually be less, because the CDC says there may be “a lack of detail” about the other conditions that contributed to the death:
So, of the 600,000 deaths to date, only about 30,000 actually died of covid 19, and that number may still be questionable.


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## SeaBreeze

Where is that current info from the CDC from, your little snip of that image is dated in early May.  Please post a link so we can read the article, thanks.


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## squatting dog

SeaBreeze said:


> Where is that current info from the CDC from, your little snip of that image is dated in early May.  Please post a link so we can read the article, thanks.


At the time that I saved that shot, that was the most up to date info I could find. However, I went back and found this info from 10-3-21. and I save these screenshots because these facts have a way of disappearing suddenly.  
Here is a link to their most current page. 
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm


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## Gaer

Why do you suppose there is such a dismissal from the media as to the deaths and serious adverse reactions on people from the vaccine?
Why would they not cover this?


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## Aunt Bea

The slicing and dicing of the statistics reminds me of The House That Jack Built. 

If it wasn’t for COVID I wouldn’t have been in the hospital on a ventilator with a weakened immune system that ended in complications from pneumonia, heart failure, diabetes, hypertension, dementia, etc...

At this point I’m really not concerned with what killed the cat or the rat.  I’m just concerned with taking steps to protect  myself and the people around me.


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## Paco Dennis

Until there is cooperation the data will remain a mess.


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## OneEyedDiva

Gaer said:


> Why do you suppose there is such a dismissal from the media as to the deaths and serious adverse reactions on people from the vaccine?
> Why would they not cover this?


Oh Gaer. There's *so *much the mainstream media does not report! Not just about COVID either.
Re the OP: I have a friend who has been claiming for months that this is the case. They are over reporting by including questionable deaths in the COVID numbers.


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## ManjaroKDE

Aunt Bea said:


> At this point I’m really not concerned with what killed the cat or the rat.  I’m just concerned with taking steps to protect  myself and the people around me.


My point exactly, I'm compromised.  11 years ago I underwent radical cancer treatment, 6 years ago I was diagnosed with hypertension and Type II, managed them with medication, lifestyle changes and weight control.  

Everyday my life is a mine field of my own making.  Anything I can do to remain vertical is worth the effort.  I've had 3 doses now and unless something *besides* the ridiculous warnings from the internet come along I'm game to give it a go, as long as my professionally trained PCP agrees.

You can do anything with stats if you want to play that game, and anyone can post anything they want as long as they have the means.


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## win231

They've been doing that from the beginning.
If they don't exaggerate the mortality rate, they won't generate sufficient fear.
Without sufficient fear, they won't sell many vaccines, which means profit loss.


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## SeaBreeze

ManjaroKDE said:


> My point exactly, I'm compromised.  11 years ago I underwent radical cancer treatment, 6 years ago I was diagnosed with hypertension and Type II, managed them with medication, lifestyle changes and weight control.
> 
> Everyday my life is a mine field of my own making.  Anything I can do to remain vertical is worth the effort.  I've had 3 doses now and unless something *besides* the ridiculous warnings from the internet come along I'm game to give it a go, as long as my professionally trained PCP agrees.
> 
> You can do anything with stats if you want to play that game, and anyone can post anything they want as long as they have the means.


I hope you stay well and are taking good care of yourself, am glad you were wise enough to get those three doses too.  There are people with heart disease, diabetes, obesity issues, etc., etc.  who would still be alive today if they did not contract the COVID-19 virus.  The fact that their other issues are mentioned in their death certificates does not mean the coronavirus is not what put them over the edge.  My relative who died from a coronavirus infection had a heart problem, but it was the COVID-19 virus that took his life.  May he rest peacefully.  May all those 700,000+ who are no longer living also rest in peace.


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## SeaBreeze

win231 said:


> They've been doing that from the beginning.
> If they don't exaggerate the mortality rate, they won't generate sufficient fear.
> Without sufficient fear, they won't sell many vaccines, which means profit loss.


Conspiracy and paranoia.


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## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> Conspiracy and paranoia.


Gullible.


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## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> I hope you stay well and are taking good care of yourself, am glad you were wise enough to get those three doses too.  There are people with heart disease, diabetes, obesity issues, etc., etc.  who would still be alive today if they did not contract the COVID-19 virus.  The fact that their other issues are mentioned in their death certificates does not mean the coronavirus is not what put them over the edge.  My relative who died from a coronavirus infection had a heart problem, but it was the COVID-19 virus that took his life.  May he rest peacefully.  May all those 700,000+ who are no longer living also rest in peace.


LOL - "700,000 Plus."


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## chic

win231 said:


> They've been doing that from the beginning.
> If they don't exaggerate the mortality rate, they won't generate sufficient fear.
> Without sufficient fear, they won't sell many vaccines, which means profit loss.


Generating fear seems to be the goal for them sadly.


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## Sunny

SeaBreeze said:


> I hope you stay well and are taking good care of yourself, am glad you were wise enough to get those three doses too.  There are people with heart disease, diabetes, obesity issues, etc., etc.  who would still be alive today if they did not contract the COVID-19 virus.  The fact that their other issues are mentioned in their death certificates does not mean the coronavirus is not what put them over the edge.  My relative who died from a coronavirus infection had a heart problem, but it was the COVID-19 virus that took his life.  May he rest peacefully.  May all those 700,000+ who are no longer living also rest in peace.



Seabreeze, the same thing happened to an old friend of mine. He and his wife lived in MA, but this could have happened anywhere. He had chronic serious ailments including heart problems and dementia. About a month ago, he had a series of strokes that put him in the hospital. His wife says he was recovering from the strokes, but caught Covid in the hospital(!) from a hospital employee who was not vaccinated.  After 1 1/2 days, he died of Covid.

His wife is heartbroken that he had to die alone; she was not allowed to visit. I don't know if he was vaccinated or not, didn't want to ask. I suspect not, probably due to his other medical concerns.  He was a chemist during his working years, so he certainly would have been in favor of a vaccine.  (Maybe I should have asked her?)


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## ManjaroKDE

Delete this, inappropriate.


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## win231

ManjaroKDE said:


> Am I missing something, don't the anti's use fear as their main weapon?


You're probably assuming that anyone who doesn't want the Covid vaccine is an "Anti Vaxxer."  A common misconception & an attempt to make those who choose not to get a Covid vaccine seem "wacko & way out there."  Funny how those who don't want the vaccine have no need to ridicule those who choose to get vaccinated.
You are also confusing "Fear" with "Caution." 
As I've always said, health decisions belong to each individual & no one else.


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## ManjaroKDE

win231 said:


> You're probably assuming that anyone who doesn't want the Covid vaccine is an "Anti Vaxxer."  A common misconception & an attempt to make those who choose not to get a Covid vaccine seem "wacko & way out there."  Funny how those who don't want the vaccine have no need to ridicule those who choose to get vaccinated.
> You are also confusing "Fear" with "Caution."
> As I've always said, health decisions belong to each individual & no one else.


Damn thought I had you on permanent ignore, you always show up when I forget to log back in.


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## win231

ManjaroKDE said:


> Damn thought I had you on permanent ignore, you always show up when I forget to log back in.


Well, then get your act together.  Both of them.


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## Buckeye

win231 said:


> Gullible.





win231 said:


> LOL - "700,000 Plus."





win231 said:


> You're probably assuming that anyone who doesn't want the Covid vaccine is an "Anti Vaxxer."  A common misconception & an attempt to make those who choose not to get a Covid vaccine seem "wacko & way out there."  *Funny how those who don't want the vaccine have no need to ridicule those who choose to get vaccinated.*
> You are also confusing "Fear" with "Caution."
> As I've always said, health decisions belong to each individual & no one else.





win231 said:


> Well, then get your act together.  Both of them.


I'm just gonna leave these right here for the other posters to chuckle over and to shake their heads..


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## fmdog44

Isn't ironic that the most advanced country suffered the most cases per population I'm thinkin' obesity ............


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## SeaBreeze

win231 said:


> Gullible.


Yes, people who spread conspiracies and believe that nonsense from questionable sources _are _gullible.  Be afraid win, be very afraid!  The big bad companies which are producing and distributing life-saving vaccines during a deadly worldwide pandemic, are making some money from it. That's how it works win, don't be so afraid win, too many boogeymen under your bed already.  


win231 said:


> Without sufficient fear, they won't sell many vaccines, which means profit loss.


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## SeaBreeze

Sunny said:


> Seabreeze, the same thing happened to an old friend of mine. He and his wife lived in MA, but this could have happened anywhere. He had chronic serious ailments including heart problems and dementia. About a month ago, he had a series of strokes that put him in the hospital. His wife says he was recovering from the strokes, but caught Covid in the hospital(!) from a hospital employee who was not vaccinated.  After 1 1/2 days, he died of Covid.
> 
> His wife is heartbroken that he had to die alone; she was not allowed to visit. I don't know if he was vaccinated or not, didn't want to ask. I suspect not, probably due to his other medical concerns.  He was a chemist during his working years, so he certainly would have been in favor of a vaccine.  (Maybe I should have asked her?)


I'm sorry to hear your friend died from a Coviid infection which he contracted in a hospital, very sad, RIP.  My heart goes out to his wife, I couldn't imagine my husband dying from a virus like that in a hospital, and my not being able to be with him at the end of his life.


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## SeaBreeze

Gaer said:


> Why do you suppose there is such a dismissal from the media as to the deaths and serious adverse reactions on people from the vaccine?
> Why would they not cover this?


What are the amount of deaths and serious reactions from the vaccine Gaer?  Can you post your source showing those numbers?  Thanks.


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## SeaBreeze

win231 said:


> LOL - "700,000 Plus."


You're laughing, while their families are grieving?


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## Packerjohn

I have given up on this Covid and all those "Variants of Interest" crap.  I know for a fact that over 8 people die each day in my province of some sort of cancer and maybe 1 or 2 die of Covid each day.  Sometimes no one dies of Covid.  The media is frozen in time.  They only see Covid news and refuse to let go.  They are like the horses I have seen in Europe with the blinders on their eyes.  They see Covid and absolutely nothing else!


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## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> You're laughing, while their families are grieving?


Nice try at deflection, but I'm laughing at how gullible you are.
But, I'm sure you already know that.


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## win231

fmdog44 said:


> Isn't ironic that the most advanced country suffered the most cases per population I'm thinkin' obesity ............


Obesity may or may not cause the most suffering from Covid......I don't know.
I've heard many people complain that their doctor blames any health issue (that they can't fix) on obesity.  It seems to be a scapegoat.
I'm not saying obesity does not cause any health issues; I was very obese at one time.  It certainly is a factor with some conditions like arthritis, etc. especially when you're older & joints are worn.  I'm just not totally convinced that it makes Covid more serious.

Another example:  When I learned I had diabetes 13 years ago, I heard many doctors attribute it to obesity.  And many doctor claimed that when you lose excess weight, diabetes goes away.
I couldn't help but notice at my diabetes support groups, _very few people were overweight. _ And personally, after I lost weight & when I reached an "Ideal" weight, my glucose level spiked WAY UP & I had to start on insulin.
What I think happens is:  Many people are overweight & when they become diabetic, their doctor mistakenly connects their weight to diabetes.


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## Shero

Gaer said:


> Why do you suppose there is such a dismissal from the media as to the deaths and serious adverse reactions on people from the vaccine?
> Why would they not cover this?


 Because it is NOT true!!


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## Shero

squatting dog said:


> At the time that I saved that shot, that was the most up to date info I could find. However, I went back and found this info from 10-3-21. and I save these screenshots because these facts have a way of disappearing suddenly.
> Here is a link to their most current page.
> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm
> 
> View attachment 189013


How convenient for you Squatting Dog! Another case for the disappearing information!


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## Shero

Aunt Bea said:


> The slicing and dicing of the statistics reminds me of The House That Jack Built.
> 
> If it wasn’t for COVID I wouldn’t have been in the hospital on a ventilator with a weakened immune system that ended in complications from pneumonia, heart failure, diabetes, hypertension, dementia, etc...
> 
> At this point I’m really not concerned with what killed the cat or the rat.  I’m just concerned with taking steps to protect  myself and the people around me.


well said Aunt Bea!!!!


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## Shero

OneEyedDiva said:


> Oh Gaer. There's *so *much the mainstream media does not report! Not just about COVID either.
> Re the OP: I have a friend who has been claiming for months that this is the case. They are over reporting by including questionable deaths in the COVID numbers.


 That is because you get your misinformation from ill informed sources !!!!


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## Shero

The covid vaccine anti vaxxers are now known as a cult movement.

In my opinion, they are worse, because they are capable of aiding the death of many people by their refusal to get a vaccination.
.


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## SeaBreeze

Shero said:


> Because it is NOT true!!


Bingo!


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## Shero

“While there are many mind control techniques that destructive cults use, emotional control is one of their most powerful weapons for keeping people dependent and obedient. Known as *phobia indoctrination*, it exposes a person to a series of persistent, irrational fears that initiate a closed cycle of fearful images, thoughts and feelings. The goal is to cause people to fear things that are actually harmless in reality. The cue can be internal or external, such as a thought, image, word, smell, feeling or behavior. This stimulus causes a person to generate negative feelings (often doom).

Anti-vaccination groups are doing the same thing today. Everyone is susceptible to mind control when under great stress and disorientation, and these groups use social media to bombard their targets with messages that sow doubt, fear and confusion about the Covid-19 vaccine. As a result, a significant portion of the US population is refusing to get vaccinated and putting themselves at risk of being hospitalized or dying from Covid-19. “

The rest off the article is here

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/29/...ne-anti-vaxxers-social-media-cults/index.html


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## chic

win231 said:


> You're probably assuming that anyone who doesn't want the Covid vaccine is an "Anti Vaxxer."  A common misconception & an attempt to make those who choose not to get a Covid vaccine seem "wacko & way out there."  Funny how those who don't want the vaccine have no need to ridicule those who choose to get vaccinated.
> You are also confusing "Fear" with "Caution."
> As I've always said, health decisions belong to each individual & no one else.


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## Shero

John cycling said:


> "Under the barbaric practices of covid “treatment,” today’s hospitals and medical centers have become *murder factories* that systematically murder tens of thousands of Americans with ventilators. Now, the murder edict has done away with medical devices altogether and resorted to *plastic bags* placed over the heads of patients."


.
*If your post appeared on any other social media platform. It would be removed immediately*


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## SeaBreeze

Shero said:


> .
> *If your post appeared on any other social media platform. It would be removed immediately*


Agree, youtube and other social media has been removing blatant lies and disinformation spread by conspiracy theorists.  Best to throw out the garbage in the trash, before more people are misinformed.


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## Gaer

John cycling said:


> The main stream corporate media is owned, controlled and told what to say by the same people who own the vaccination corporations, the politicians and the governments.  That's why every single one of all of their networks is reporting the very same propaganda.
> 
> As of today and throughout history, *no one has ever isolated a covid19 virus**,* *<-*- because there is no covid19 virus.
> 
> All of the excess deaths have occurred from the poisonous vaccinations, and/or in hospitals where many seniors have been murdered by paralyzing them with drugs against their will, shoving a tube down their throats, starving them with antibiotics and choking them to their death.  Now hospitals have escalated to eliminating the use of ventilators by using plastic bags to choke them to death. *<--*
> 
> "Under the barbaric practices of covid “treatment,” today’s hospitals and medical centers have become *murder factories* that systematically murder tens of thousands of Americans with ventilators. Now, the murder edict has done away with medical devices altogether and resorted to *plastic bags* placed over the heads of patients."
> 
> The lying propaganda corporate owned networks don't report the real truth *because they don't want you to know what is happening!*
> Likewise, Shero and Seabreeze have already posted *16 times on this thread*, because they don't want you to think for yourselves. Do they post any eye witness accounts to counter this information? No, because they can't. And that's why all they have are personal attacks and denials.
> 
> View attachment 189091


Thanks for answering this! Wow!


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## Shero

Well anti vaxxers, keep your sad conspiracy  theories going because that is all you have. 
I am off to meet a 90 year old wonderful man and his wife, he is going to sit for me. He had his vaccinations and is looking forward to a booster. This is my kind of person: positive, intelligent, a purpose to life. Oh yes, a credit to this planet.
Have a great day!


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## Buckeye

Here's the good news - over 404 million doses of the vaccine have been adminstered in the US, and 95.3% of us seniors (65 and over) have had a least on jab, and the numbers go up every day.  68% of the 18 and over population (and 66.2% of the 12 and over group) are FULLY vaxxed.

We will never attain 100% vaccination, but the anti-vaxx nutters are increasingly irrelevant.  I'd put the ones on here on ignore, but I find their increasing desperation mildly amusing.


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## SeaBreeze

Shero said:


> Well anti vaxxers, keep your sad conspiracy  theories going because that is all you have.
> I am off to meet a 90 year old wonderful man and his wife, he is going to sit for me. He had his vaccinations and is looking forward to a booster. This is my kind of person: positive, intelligent, a purpose to life. Oh yes, a credit to this planet.
> Have a great day!


He _does _sound wonderful, positive and intelligent.  Wish there were more like him.  I wish him and his wife good health, you take care too Shero.


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## SeaBreeze

Buckeye said:


> Here's the good news - over 404 million doses of the vaccine have been delivered in the US, and 95.3% of us seniors (65 and over) have had a least on jab, and the numbers to up every day.  68% of the 18 and over population (and 66.2% of the 12 and over group) are FULLY vaxxed.
> 
> We will never attain 100% vaccination, but the anti-vaxx nutters are increasingly irrelevant.  I'd put the ones on here on ignore, but I find their increasing desperation mildly amusing.


That is good news, many of us are older and _wiser_, and that's a good thing for sure.


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## Sunny

Just got back from my weekly bridge game in the party room of my building. We had 4 tables going, 16 people in all. Everyone wore a mask, and everyone had been vaccinated. Some have had the booster already.  There was some discussion about how incredible it is that there are still people believing the anti-vaxxer nonsense and lies about something that can save our lives.

Our county has the highest rate of vaccinated people in the state. I am glad to live here.


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## Don M.

SeaBreeze said:


> That is good news, many of us are older and _wiser_, and that's a good thing for sure.



My wife and I got the Moderna shots early this year, and we're doing fine.  The booster should soon be available, and we'll get it when it does.  The Moderna seems to have the best, long term, results.  We now go anywhere we want...with a mask, if required...and we no longer "stress" out over this virus.  

Yes, getting vaccinated is a personal choice...but why take a chance when the overwhelming evidence shows that these vaccines work?   

And Yes, the drug companies are making money off these vaccines, which is understandable.  But, how does the costs of these vaccines compare to the costs of those being hospitalized, and running up 10's of thousands of dollars in treatments.  How long will it be before these costs are passed along to everyone, in the form of much higher health insurance rates?


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## Ladybj

squatting dog said:


> A report from the CDC shows that currently the number of deaths that are caused by COVID-19 ONLY  are actually 5%   and that number may actually be less, because the CDC says there may be “a lack of detail” about the other conditions that contributed to the death:
> So, of the 600,000 deaths to date, only about 30,000 actually died of covid 19, and that number may still be questionable.
> 
> View attachment 188999


I am not a bit surprised!!!!!!!


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## SeaBreeze

Don M. said:


> My wife and I got the Moderna shots early this year, and we're doing fine.  The booster should soon be available, and we'll get it when it does.  The Moderna seems to have the best, long term, results.  We now go anywhere we want...with a mask, if required...and we no longer "stress" out over this virus.
> 
> Yes, getting vaccinated is a personal choice...but why take a chance when the overwhelming evidence shows that these vaccines work?
> 
> And Yes, the drug companies are making money off these vaccines, which is understandable.  But, how does the costs of these vaccines compare to the costs of those being hospitalized, and running up 10's of thousands of dollars in treatments.  How long will it be before these costs are passed along to everyone, in the form of much higher health insurance rates?


Well said Don, thanks.  I got the Moderna too and was pleased to hear it may be a bit better in long term results.  Will get the booster if/when it's available.  We both have also stopped stressing since being vaccinated and will wear a mask where required.  The vaccines work, and it does make sense to get them.  We're lucky to have them during this pandemic.


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## win231

Shero said:


> Because it is NOT true!!


What?  No French words??


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## win231

Shero said:


> The covid vaccine anti vaxxers are now known as a cult movement.
> 
> In my opinion, they are worse, because they are capable of aiding the death of many people by their refusal to get a vaccination.
> .


I'm sorry you have no faith in your vaccine's ability to protect you.
So.......why did you get it?


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## Ladybj

Shero said:


> Because it is NOT true!!


And you know this b e c a u s e?????????


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## win231

Shero said:


> Well anti vaxxers, keep your sad conspiracy  theories going because that is all you have.
> I am off to meet a 90 year old wonderful man and his wife, he is going to sit for me. He had his vaccinations and is looking forward to a booster. This is my kind of person: positive, intelligent, a purpose to life. Oh yes, a credit to this planet.
> Have a great day!


How long have you two been seeing each other?
Does his wife know you two been steppin' out?
Do we have a ring & a date?


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## win231

Sunny said:


> Just got back from my weekly bridge game in the party room of my building. We had 4 tables going, 16 people in all. Everyone wore a mask, and everyone had been vaccinated. Some have had the booster already.  There was some discussion about how incredible it is that there are still people believing the anti-vaxxer nonsense and lies about something that can save our lives.
> 
> Our county has the highest rate of vaccinated people in the state. I am glad to live here.


LOL - "Everyone had been vaccinated & everyone wore a mask."
Wonderful vote of confidence for the vaccine.


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## Ladybj

Shero said:


> The covid vaccine anti vaxxers are now known as a cult movement.
> 
> In my opinion, they are worse, because they are capable of aiding the death of many people by their refusal to get a vaccination.
> .


Hmmmmmm....  So is it ok to say that those that have been vaccinated are a cult movement, robots???     Although you have every right to your opinion. If it is a cult movement, who is our cult leader?? You know his/her name? No disrespect to you at all but its me that is trying to make sense out of nonsense.


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## chic

win231 said:


> What?  No French words??


Here's some for ya win, Je ne suis pas une pelote d'epingles.


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## Shero

win231 said:


> How long have you two been seeing each other?
> Does his wife know you two been steppin' out?
> Do we have a ring & a date?



Petit enfant I have been devotedly and happily married for forty years.

Are you happily married, win ??
.


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## Shero

win231 said:


> What?  No French words??



Trying to be sarcastic win? You are wasting your time, the French are experts at sarcasm, it’s our national sport !
Another thing you should know I was born in Hawaii and therefore a US citizen. I speak English or French when I want to plus other languages. Maintenant va-t’en paysan !
.


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## Buckeye

Shero said:


> Trying to be sarcastic win? You are wasting your time, the French are experts at sarcasm, it’s our national sport !
> Another thing you should know* I was born in Hawaii *and therefore a US citizen. I speak English or French when I want to plus other languages. Maintenant va-t’en paysan !
> .


And by "Hawaii" do you mean Kenya?  It's a common mistake.


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## Shero

Buckeye said:


> And by "Hawaii" do you mean Nigeria?  It's a common mistake.



How could Hawaii be mistaken for Nigeria?  You've lost me lol. did you have a glass or two today already


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## Buckeye

Shero said:


> How could Hawaii be mistaken for Nigeria?  You've lost me lol. did you have a glass or two today already


Sorry, but I meant Kenya.  I've fixed it.
In my own defense, I've only had 1 cup of coffee


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## Shero

Buckeye said:


> Sorry, but I meant Kenya.  I've fixed it.
> In my own defense, I've only had 1 cup of coffee



Then there must be something in that cup of coffee, since Kenya is in Africa and Hawaii in the Pacific Ocean. Have you ever been abroad Buckeye? Some Americans even mistake Australia for Austria


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## Buckeye

Shero said:


> Then there must be something in that cup of coffee, since Kenya is in Africa and Hawaii in the Pacific Ocean. Have you ever been abroad Buckeye? Some Americans even mistake Australia for Austria


Well, yes I have been "abroad" and I've lived in Hawaii for a few years on the Big Island.

I guess you need to have some knowledge of recent American politics to understand what I posted, and since we can't discuss politics on here, that's all I can say.

Maybe some other posters can help you


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## Shero

Buckeye said:


> Well, yes I have been "abroad" and I've lived in Hawaii for a few years on the Big Island.
> 
> I guess you need to have some knowledge of recent American politics to understand what I posted, and since we can't discuss politics on here, that's all I can say.
> 
> Maybe some other posters can help you



No need, I know all about the Obama/Kenya/Hawaii nonsense!


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## RadishRose

chic said:


> Here's some for ya win, Je ne suis pas une pelote d'epingles.


I looked it up.


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## Sunny

Ladybj said:


> And you know this b e c a u s e????????


Ladybj, the burden of proof always falls on the person making a surprising, or controversial, statement.  If I say that Abraham Lincoln was secretly a member of a Nazi cult, or that Ben & Jerry's ice cream has caused many people to grow two heads, or that Marilyn Monroe was really just a drag queen....  who has to come up with some evidence that these "facts" are true? Me, or the people who say that is utter nonsense?

Although I'm probably talking to a brick wall here, here are a few answers to Squatting Dog.

1. Show us the CDC report, please. What is the source of your so-called information?
2. The number of deaths (in this country alone) is over 700,000.  Where did you get your 600,000 number from?
3.  Even if that "only 5%" number is right, it would mean that "only" 5% of the people currently still catching this dreadful disease are dying of it. That may be true, since most people have had the sense to get vaccinated, and if you get the vaccine and then the virus manages to get inside your body anyway, it is very unlikely to kill you.  And people are still dying of plenty of other things.  I would say that the actual number of deaths of_ vaccinated_ people is even lower than 5%, from all I have read about it. 
4. And your mathematical logic is mind-boggling.  If the CDC report says that* currently, *only 5% of deaths are caused by covid, that 30,000 number you came up with makes no sense at all.  You are taking the current figures and applying them to what happened in the past.

If that's too difficult for you, here's a simpler example: 
In the 14th century, between 75 - 200 million people died of bubonic plague. 
Because of medical knowledge, and particularly because of antibiotics, there is currently an average of 7 deaths per year from this disease. 
So really all those 200 million people didn't die, you have to divide 7 by 200 million to get the percentage. Which comes out less than 1% of the people who got the plague actually dying of it.


----------



## win231

chic said:


> Here's some for ya win, Je ne suis pas une pelote d'epingles.


Well, I certainly hope you recover from shingles.  Maybe get that Shingles vaccine.


----------



## win231

Shero said:


> Petit enfant I have been devotedly and happily married for forty years.
> 
> Are you happily married, win ??
> .


No.  I'm happily divorced.


----------



## Buckeye

Here's the kind of news story I hate to read - a former Ohio State Buckeye is in ICU suffering from Covid.  He played about 20 years ago, so he is in his early 40s.  Yes, I know, what's one more when over 700,000 have already died, but this seems especially tragic

https://thespun.com/big-ten/ohio-st...y-induced-coma-virus-mekka-don-jonathan-wells


----------



## John cycling

> Mekka Don ... gave a scary update on the former OSU offensive lineman.



“He’s in the ICU in a *medically induced* coma right now” - which means they did that to put him on a ventilator.


----------



## Shero

win231 said:


> No.  I'm happily divorced.



I’ll bet your Madame ex is too win


----------



## WheatenLover

Well, if someone dies from Covid-19, and their system is more vulnerable from other disease(s) they have, they still died from Covid-19 unless there is an autopsy report that says different. Personally, I wouldn't want to do autopsies on people who are determined to have died from Covid. Too dangerous.


----------



## WheatenLover

win231 said:


> Nice try at deflection, but I'm laughing at how gullible you are.
> But, I'm sure you already know that.


Why do you believe people are gullible, or programmed, or ridiculing others? I can't figure you out. Are you just cranky? Or is this how you verify your own beliefs -- by being unkind in these ways?


----------



## win231

Shero said:


> I’ll bet your Madame ex is too win


I wouldn't know.  She died 5 years ago.


----------



## win231

WheatenLover said:


> Why do you believe people are gullible, or programmed, or ridiculing others? I can't figure you out. Are you just cranky? Or is this how you verify your own beliefs -- by being unkind in these ways?





WheatenLover said:


> Why do you believe people are gullible, or programmed, or ridiculing others? I can't figure you out. Are you just cranky? Or is this how you verify your own beliefs -- by being unkind in these ways?


Obviously, there isn't much you can figure out.


----------



## Pepper

It was so nice win said it twice.


----------



## mathjak107

Gaer said:


> Why do you suppose there is such a dismissal from the media as to the deaths and serious adverse reactions on people from the vaccine?
> Why would they not cover this?


because much of the complaints on vaers , the large  vaccine safety complaint site which has millions of supposed reactions show that most reactions are not from the vaccine .

the numbers for many supposed effects are no higher then any other year .

but with everyone so focused on  the vaccines , if someone farts its the vaccines fault .


----------



## mathjak107

covid isnt about the death numbers as much as the fact covid is a multi organ disease and 70% of those hospitalized  have either long term or permanent effects ..that is a staggering number .

self and my wife included .

we are gym rats as well as runners for 20 years . i was never in a hospital in my life . no immune compromised issues pre covid .

we both got it bad enough to be hospitalized for 2 weeks .

we both came out of it with high blood pressure , chronic fatige and while i had prediabetic levels that were under control with a tiny little pill , 9 months later they are still trying to get my sugar down  without increasing meds .

it is nuts what covid does .


----------



## Tom 86

On our local news at 5 am this morning.  They were saying we now have Polio, & about 80% of the ones coming in from south of the border have Conav_19.    We eradicated polio many years ago.  & now it's coming back in down south.  

  So are we ready for a Polio pandemic like 60+ years ago?


----------



## Sunny

So now, the rapists and murderers coming across the border are now infecting us with a disease we can't get? Geez, what a bunch of bad guys!

Tom, maybe your local news people should have rolled over and gone back to sleep at  "5 am this morning!"


----------



## John cycling

mathjak107 said:


> covid isnt about the death numbers as much as the fact covid is a multi organ disease and 70% of those hospitalized  have either long term or permanent effects ..that is a staggering number .  self and my wife included . we are gym rats as well as runners for 20 years . i was never in a hospital in my life .
> 
> no immune compromised issues pre covid .  we both got it bad enough to be hospitalized for 2 weeks .  we both came out of it with high blood pressure , chronic fatige and while i had prediabetic levels that were under control with a tiny little pill , 9 months later they are still trying to get my sugar down  without increasing meds .  it is nuts what covid does .



Uhuh, right after you both got the 2 shots.   <-- I've seen your postings from when it first happened.
Cause and effect.  But even though you both had the shots, that's can't be it huh.
Therefore it must have been due to something that's invisible that *no one's ever proven that even exists.* <--
Something that no one's ever seen is killing everyone!!!! ... but the well known poisons in the shots are perfectly safe.   







Tom 86 said:


> On our local news at 5 am this morning.  They were saying we now have Polio, & about 80% of the ones coming in from south of the border have Conav_19.    We eradicated polio many years ago.  & now it's coming back in down south.   So are we ready for a Polio pandemic like 60+ years ago?



It couldn't be from the shots!


----------



## mathjak107

Huh  ,   There were no vaccines out when we had covid nor the issues after it . The side effects where months before we got the vaccines 

spin again , thanks for  Playing.


----------



## oldiebutgoody

Anti-Vax Flat Earth Preacher Rob Skiba Dies From COVID-19​https://crooksandliars.com/2021/10/anti-vax-flat-earth-preacher-rob-skiba


10/15/21 4:51am
Anti-Vax Flat Earth Preacher Rob Skiba Dies From COVID-19
*"The one scenario that really does appear to be coming into focus is the likelihood that within I’d say 2 to 3 years or so... one of us will probably be dead," Skiba posted to Facebook to those getting vaccinated.*
By Ed Scarce


Skiba was calling vaccine mandates the "mark of the beast" from Revelations way back in 2012. He thought COVID-19 vaccinations were dangerous, posting on Facebook, "To those who disagree with my position on our current situation... One of us is right,” he wrote.

Rob Skiba made a really bad bet.

Source: The Daily Beast

Rob Skiba, an influential figure in flat earth and Christian circles, has died of COVID-19, colleagues announced on Thursday. *He had been fighting the virus since at least late August, when he began exhibiting symptoms after “Take On The World,” a biblical flat earth conference. “He has been sick since coming back from TOTW,” a Facebook friend posted in early September, adding that Skiba had been hospitalized for low oxygen levels. One of the country’s most prominent advocates of Flat Earth Theory, Skiba was also skeptical of COVID-19 vaccines and some of the illness’ treatments. On the first day of the Take On The World conference, Skiba authored a Facebook post suggesting that the COVID-19 vaccines were dangerous.*

‘To those who disagree with my position on our current situation... One of us is right,” he wrote. “Unless YHWH miraculously intervenes, based on what I’m seeing/hearing, the one scenario that really does appear to be coming into focus is the likelihood that within I’d say 2 to 3 years or so... one of us will probably be dead. Truly, I take no joy in saying this, nor will I if I'm the one still standing.”













It's real, all too real for deniers like this guy and others who are deceived.


----------



## Tom 86

John cycling said:


> Uhuh, right after you both got the 2 shots.   <-- I've seen your postings from when it first happened.
> Cause and effect.  But even though you both had the shots, that's can't be it huh.
> Therefore it must have been due to something that's invisible that *no one's ever proven that even exists.* <--
> Something that no one's ever seen is killing everyone!!!! ... but the well known poisons in the shots are perfectly safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It couldn't be from the shots!


No, they are coming through unvaccinated for any diseases we've got rid of years ago.  Including Conav-19, they don't have the shots in Vensuvala & South America, along with Mexico.


----------



## Michael Z

Buckeye said:


> Here's the kind of news story I hate to read - a former Ohio State Buckeye is in ICU suffering from Covid.  He played about 20 years ago, so he is in his early 40s.  Yes, I know, what's one more when over 700,000 have already died, but this seems especially tragic
> 
> https://thespun.com/big-ten/ohio-st...y-induced-coma-virus-mekka-don-jonathan-wells


So does anyone know whether or not he not vaccinated? I read the story but it was not noted (or I missed it). Not taking a side here, just would like to know.


----------



## win231

Michael Z said:


> So does anyone know whether or not he not vaccinated? I read the story but it was not noted (or I missed it). Not taking a side here, just would like to know.


LOL - "Not taking a side here."  With the touchiness of this issue, Oh boy.........
Since the push is to vaccinate _everyone_, when they don't mention whether someone who is very ill was vaccinated, they usually were.
It goes along with exaggerating Covid deaths & infections - for the same goal.


----------



## Chris21E

So glad we are All here, No one is to blame or regret our decisions. We feel sad for all the loss, and keep hoping for the best.

We did our best...Trust ourselves,
  We made it this far...Enjoy Life


----------



## squatting dog

Bad news from Taiwan. closing in on a dead heat. (no pun intended). 

In Taiwan, the number of people dying after their COVID-19 vaccination is exceeding the number of deaths from the virus itself.

Taiwan’s health authorities say that as of Monday, deaths after vaccination reached 865. While deaths from the virus are 845.


----------



## Buckeye

squatting dog said:


> Bad news from Taiwan. closing in on a dead heat. (no pun intended).
> 
> In Taiwan, the number of people dying after their COVID-19 vaccination is exceeding the number of deaths from the virus itself.
> 
> Taiwan’s health authorities say that as of Monday,* deaths after vaccination reached 865*. While deaths from the virus are 845.


Please give us a link to official site that says that any of the deaths were caused by the vaccination.

Thanks


----------



## squatting dog

Buckeye said:


> Please give us a link to official site that says that any of the deaths were caused by the vaccination.
> 
> Thanks


https://www.ntd.com/more-die-after-vaccination-than-from-covid-19-in-taiwan_688004.html


----------



## Buckeye

squatting dog said:


> https://www.ntd.com/more-die-after-vaccination-than-from-covid-19-in-taiwan_688004.html


Thanks, but that site is merely quoting (or at least claims to be quoting) a Taiwanese official.  And even then it is not alleged that the deaths were due to the vaccine.  (60% of the folks in Taiwan have had a least one jab.)

Here in the US, over 95% of us seniors (65 and over) have had at least one jab, so almost any death of one of us could be counted as being a death after vaccination, regardless of the actual cause of death.


----------



## John cycling

squatting dog said:


> Bad news from Taiwan. closing in on a dead heat. (no pun intended).
> In Taiwan, the number of people dying after their COVID-19 vaccination is exceeding the number of deaths from the virus itself.
> Taiwan’s health authorities say that as of Monday, deaths after vaccination reached 865. While deaths from the virus are 845.


----------



## Jackie23

This article is pertaining to Epoch and NTD .....NTD is the media that published the quote from Taiwan ......

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...edia-epoch-times-democrats-chinese-communists


----------



## mathjak107

John cycling said:


> View attachment 189369


Most cases in Waterford were not hospitalized and were very mild …

it is simple math ..in a place where almost 100% are vaccinated and few unvaccinated, you should have only vaccinated break through cases for the most part


----------



## Jackie23

More on NTD......I don't think this one is behind a pay wall....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Epoch_Times


----------



## SeaBreeze

mathjak107 said:


> Huh  ,   There were no vaccines out when we had covid nor the issues after it . The side effects where months before we got the vaccines
> 
> spin again , thanks for  Playing.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Jackie23 said:


> More on NTD......I don't think this one is behind a pay wall....
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Epoch_Times


Thanks Jackie, I've read some more articles about NTD, and won't say anymore because NTD and Epoch are propaganda, conspiracy and lie spreading trash rags.  They wouldn't last very long on facebook or youtube now, because they're getting rid of the dangerous nutters who prey on the gullible and uneducated.


----------



## SeaBreeze

squatting dog said:


> https://www.ntd.com/more-die-after-vaccination-than-from-covid-19-in-taiwan_688004.html


You can't be serious squatting dog, I _had _more respect for you than that.  If you posted this garbage on youtube or even facebook these days, with all the Covid lies and disinformation being spread, chances are you wouldn't last very long without getting the boot. I'd say more, but politics is not welcome here. Too bad that you're spreading these lies here on this forum, even more sad are the couple of folks who are gullible enough to fall for that trash.


----------



## Sunny

squatting dog said:


> Bad news from Taiwan. closing in on a dead heat. (no pun intended).
> 
> In Taiwan, the number of people dying after their COVID-19 vaccination is exceeding the number of deaths from the virus itself.
> 
> Taiwan’s health authorities say that as of Monday, deaths after vaccination reached 865. While deaths from the virus are 845.


This is the most ridiculous twisted logic that I've ever read. Here's a news flash, Squatting Dog.  Everybody who gets the vaccine will eventually die. So will everybody who doesn't get the vaccine. Your statement doesn't say more people died _from _the vaccine, it just says that they died (almost certainly from something other than COVID-19)  _after _getting it. There are many other diseases that kill people. So, what does that prove?  That the vaccine doesn't make you immortal?

I can't speak for Taiwan, but in this country there have been virtually no deaths caused by the vaccine. I haven't heard of it happening anywhere else, either.


----------



## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> You can't be serious squatting dog, I _had _more respect for you than that.  If you posted this garbage on youtube or even facebook these days, with all the Covid lies and disinformation being spread, chances are you wouldn't last very long without getting the boot. I'd say more, but politics is not welcome here. Too bad that you're spreading these lies here on this forum, even more sad are the couple of folks who are gullible enough to fall for that trash.


Yes, Squatting dog,_ how dare you post something SeaBreeze doesn't agree with!
*The nerve!*_


----------



## chic

Shero said:


> .
> *If your post appeared on any other social media platform. It would be removed immediately*


I think @John cycling was referring to this 17 year old girl. Not sure.


----------



## SeaBreeze

win231 said:


> Yes, Squatting dog,_ how dare you post something SeaBreeze doesn't agree with!
> *The nerve!*_


Not about agreeing with me win, try and keep up.  It's about linking to known conspiracy sites and spreading the BS here for people like you to embrace.   If I agreed with you two, they'd have to put me in a nuthouse, that will never happen, I can tell reality from nonsense propaganda and conspiracy.


----------



## Alizerine

OneEyedDiva said:


> Oh Gaer. There's *so *much the mainstream media does not report! Not just about COVID either.
> Re the OP: I have a friend who has been claiming for months that this is the case. They are over reporting by including questionable deaths in the COVID numbers.


The mainstream media is far from perfect but qualified journalists are far superior to the manufactured nonsense one gets on facebook. Talk about fear mongering.


----------



## Alizerine

win231 said:


> You're probably assuming that anyone who doesn't want the Covid vaccine is an "Anti Vaxxer."  A common misconception & an attempt to make those who choose not to get a Covid vaccine seem "wacko & way out there."  Funny how those who don't want the vaccine have no need to ridicule those who choose to get vaccinated.
> You are also confusing "Fear" with "Caution."
> As I've always said, health decisions belong to each individual & no one else.


Is that how you felt about the polio vaccine?


----------



## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> Not about agreeing with me win, try and keep up.  It's about linking to known conspiracy sites and spreading the BS here for people like you to embrace.   If I agreed with you two, they'd have to put me in a nuthouse, that will never happen, I can tell reality from nonsense propaganda and conspiracy.


They won't bother putting you in a nuthouse because they know you'll just escape.
Again.


----------



## win231

Alizerine said:


> Is that how you felt about the polio vaccine?


I was around 4 or 5 when the polio vaccine was around; too young to have an opinion.


----------



## hollydolly




----------



## Shero

Vaccines for chickenpox, rubella, hepatitis, rabies, are all made by growing the viruses in fetal cells.

All of these, except the COVID-19 vaccine, are made using fibroblast cells. The COVID-19 vaccine is made using fetal retinal cells.

Fibroblast cells are the cells needed to hold skin and other connective tissue together. The fetal fibroblast cells used to grow vaccine viruses were first obtained from elective termination of two pregnancies in the early 1960s.

These same fetal cells obtained from the early 1960s have continued to grow in the laboratory and are used to make vaccines today. NO further sources of fetal cells are needed to make these vaccines.

Even though fetal cells are used to grow vaccine viruses, vaccines do NOT contain these cells or pieces of DNA that are recognizable as human DNA.

,


----------



## hollydolly

Shero said:


> Vaccines for chickenpox, rubella, hepatitis, rabies, are all made by growing the viruses in fetal cells.
> 
> All of these, except the COVID-19 vaccine, are made using fibroblast cells. The COVID-19 vaccine is made using fetal retinal cells.
> 
> Fibroblast cells are the cells needed to hold skin and other connective tissue together. The fetal fibroblast cells used to grow vaccine viruses were first obtained from elective termination of two pregnancies in the early 1960s.
> 
> These same fetal cells obtained from the early 1960s have continued to grow in the laboratory and are used to make vaccines today. NO further sources of fetal cells are needed to make these vaccines.
> 
> Even though fetal cells are used to grow vaccine viruses, vaccines do NOT contain these cells or pieces of DNA that are recognizable as human DNA.
> 
> ,


...and if it's as simple as that why have Pfizer hidden it even from their own employees.. this lady has worked for pfizer for 10 years..


----------



## Shero

hollydolly said:


> ...and if it's as simple as that why have Pfizer hidden it even from their own employees.. this lady has worked for pfizer for 10 years..



We only have her word for that, also, maybe she was heading for dismissal anyway and decided to get in first with some of her stuff. She is not saying anything most people who know about vaccines already know!


----------



## hollydolly

Shero said:


> We only have her word for that, also, maybe she was heading for dismissal anyway and decided to get in first with some of her stuff. She is not saying anything most people who know about vaccines already know!


Do you really believe that ?... honestly do you ?...


----------



## Shero

hollydolly said:


> Do you really believe that ?... honestly do you ?...


Absolutely, sans aucun doute !
There are 4 levels of quality controllers, we do not know what level she was - yet. Maybe she wanted a promotion and did not get it. We will hear more, I am sure!


----------



## hollydolly




----------



## SeaBreeze

win231 said:


> They won't bother putting you in a nuthouse because they know you'll just escape.
> Again.


Keep posting, and show everyone how childish and foolish you are. Stay in your fantasy land and stay bitter and hateful, but unfortunately people like you effect others during a deadly pandemic.  Otherwise, nobody would care about your being brainwashed and stubborn.


----------



## SeaBreeze

hollydolly said:


> ...and if it's as simple as that why have Pfizer hidden it even from their own employees.. this lady has worked for pfizer for 10 years..


There was nothing to hide.  They likely didn't want to get a panic reaction by having it in headlines because people who did not know anything about cell lines being used to develop and research vaccines and other products.  I don't know much about vaccines or medicine, but I knew all about this early on with the vaccines.  You are a smart lady, surprised you're in the group of people who use a source like Veritas that is known for lies and disinformation in the past.



> No, the COVID-19 vaccines do not contain aborted fetal cells. However, Johnson & Johnson did use fetal cell lines — not fetal tissue — when developing and producing their vaccine, while Pfizer and Moderna used fetal cell lines to test their vaccines and make sure that they work.
> *Fetal cell lines are grown in a laboratory and were started with cells from elective abortions that occurred several decades ago in the 1970s-80s. They are now thousands of generations removed from the original fetal tissue*. None of the COVID-19 vaccines use fetal cells derived from recent abortions.
> We understand this is a sensitive issue, and specifically important to religious communities. We’d like to provide some additional context on this topic. On Jan. 27, the California Catholic Conference noted in an official statement that they support the use of all COVID-19 vaccines, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, to prevent the continued spread of COVID-19. Pope Francis also publicly supported COVID-19 vaccination and the Vatican has issued a statement saying it is morally acceptable to receive COVID-19 vaccines that have used cell lines from aborted fetuses in their research and production process.


 
https://www.uclahealth.org/webview.cfm?id=3680&cat=Addressing+Concerns



> There is no real whistleblower, just a bunch of people creating faux outrage for page clicks and chaos. It’s also possible none of them even have a vague grasp of the science.
> 
> There are no fetal cells in vaccines. Yes, a fetal cell line created in 1973 was used in some lab research that was part of developing the mRNA vaccines, but fetal cell lines were also used to develop ivermectin, monoclonal antibodies to treat COVID-19, and Tylenol, and lidocaine and so on.
> 
> So on to the next faux whistleblower who will make headlines for revealing some “hidden truth” about the COVID-19 vaccines that has been available on google dot com for the past eight months or more.



https://vajenda.substack.com/p/the-covid-19-vaccine-was-developed


----------



## Alizerine

hollydolly said:


>


Veritas is not a reputable source. That O'Keefe guy is a master of deception.


----------



## Murrmurr

Buckeye said:


> Thanks, but that site is merely quoting (or at least claims to be quoting) a Taiwanese official.  And even then it is not alleged that the deaths were due to the vaccine.  (60% of the folks in Taiwan have had a least one jab.)
> 
> Here in the US, over 95% of us seniors (65 and over) have had at least one jab, so almost any death of one of us could be counted as being a death after vaccination, regardless of the actual cause of death.


I think the site I saw that on is ourworldindata.org

Not positive.


----------



## win231

Shero said:


> Absolutely, sans aucun doute !
> There are 4 levels of quality controllers, we do not know what level she was - yet. Maybe she wanted a promotion and did not get it. We will hear more, I am sure!


Ah.......once again, those French words are back - a sure sign of superior intelligence.


----------



## hollydolly

Alizerine said:


> Veritas is not a reputable source. That O'Keefe guy is a master of deception.


perhaps.. however the lady did work for Pfizer for 10 years,  ...  at least I hope she did, can't see why she would lie....


----------



## OneEyedDiva

@squatting dog The latest CDC statistical link does not support your initial post about the percentage of people who have died from COVID. Reading the stats further, I find it quite interesting that although there seems to be a lot of concern about Black communities being more vulnerable to COVID, only 15% of Black (non-HIspanics) with COVID died vs 62% of non-Hispanic Whites. It makes me wonder why that is. 

I still have not been vaccinated. I'm not un-intelligent, I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I'm not spreading COVID because I don't have it. I live alone and have limited contact with others. I wear my KN95s when I go out, I go to our local supermarket when hardly anyone else is there...early in the morning on weekdays (I've only ever seen 2 or 3 other people shopping when I do that). The most risky thing I've done last year and lately is take the casino bus to/from Atlantic City. I have limited interaction at my timeshare, all with people who are masked up. Last Sept. no one sat next to me.  Two weeks ago, I took an Uber down had an extra casino bus ticket so took that back home. There were no passengers for two rows in front, two rows in back and 4 rows to the side of me. I went to the senior center for about a month...the long tables were spaced very far apart and I sat at a table by myself. Every time I say okay...I'm going to take the vaccine, something happens to give me pause. I'm still a whole lot closer to taking the plunge (or should I say plunger) than I was at the start of this pandemic though.


----------



## Shero

win231 said:


> Ah.......once again, those French words are back - a sure sign of superior intelligence.



J'essaie d'éviter de parler aux imbéciles. Ils n'ont rien à offrir et sont vraiment des gens tristes.
.


----------



## win231

Shero said:


> J'essaie d'éviter de parler aux imbéciles. Ils n'ont rien à offrir et sont vraiment des gens tristes.
> .


You didn't even forget the accent marks this time.  I'm impressed!


----------



## Shero

hollydolly said:


> perhaps.. however the lady did work for Pfizer for 10 years,  ...  at least I hope she did, can't see why she would lie....



Melissa Strickler is not a scientist. She was a quality controller. who used to be a packer at Pfizer. Her job was to check the vials were not cracked, that they are packed correctly, that they are going to the right customers, that the paperwork was in order etc. She did not work in the laboratories.

I doubt whether she ever donned a complete hazmat suit and was ever allowed into Pfizer's laboratory. So knowing "secrets" is all her fabrication.

Even Gordon Ramsay does not tell all his secrets to the public!
.


----------



## Alizerine

hollydolly said:


> perhaps.. however the lady did work for Pfizer for 10 years,  ...  at least I hope she did, can't see why she would lie....


Had my third Pfizer shot. I trust science over people affiliated with Veritas.


----------



## Sunny

Flunked French in high school, eh, Win?


----------



## Alizerine

hollydolly said:


> perhaps.. however the lady did work for Pfizer for 10 years,  ...  at least I hope she did, can't see why she would lie....


People fabricate for many reasons. It sometimes involves money.


----------



## Alizerine

Alizerine said:


> People fabricate for many reasons. It sometimes involves money.


I'm not questioning her stint at Pfizer just her expertise. I worked for the Atomic Energy Commission for ten years but I am no expert on nuclear fission.


----------



## Jules

Alizerine said:


> People fabricate for many reasons. It sometimes involves money.


Or they just want their 15 minutes of fame.


----------



## Ladybj

Sunny said:


> Ladybj, the burden of proof always falls on the person making a surprising, or controversial, statement.  If I say that Abraham Lincoln was secretly a member of a Nazi cult, or that Ben & Jerry's ice cream has caused many people to grow two heads, or that Marilyn Monroe was really just a drag queen....  who has to come up with some evidence that these "facts" are true? Me, or the people who say that is utter nonsense?
> 
> Although I'm probably talking to a brick wall here, here are a few answers to Squatting Dog.
> 
> 1. Show us the CDC report, please. What is the source of your so-called information?
> 2. The number of deaths (in this country alone) is over 700,000.  Where did you get your 600,000 number from?
> 3.  Even if that "only 5%" number is right, it would mean that "only" 5% of the people currently still catching this dreadful disease are dying of it. That may be true, since most people have had the sense to get vaccinated, and if you get the vaccine and then the virus manages to get inside your body anyway, it is very unlikely to kill you.  And people are still dying of plenty of other things.  I would say that the actual number of deaths of_ vaccinated_ people is even lower than 5%, from all I have read about it.
> 4. And your mathematical logic is mind-boggling.  If the CDC report says that* currently, *only 5% of deaths are caused by covid, that 30,000 number you came up with makes no sense at all.  You are taking the current figures and applying them to what happened in the past.
> 
> If that's too difficult for you, here's a simpler example:
> In the 14th century, between 75 - 200 million people died of bubonic plague.
> Because of medical knowledge, and particularly because of antibiotics, there is currently an average of 7 deaths per year from this disease.
> So really all those 200 million people didn't die, you have to divide 7 by 200 million to get the percentage. Which comes out less than 1% of the people who got the plague actually dying of it.


That is not difficult for me at all.  Its sentences put together.  You have every right to have your beliefs as well as I.  As you can see, I do not quote anything on the internet, news media, etc.  nor post links.  Bottom line, we all do what is best for us.


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## Ladybj

Shero said:


> “While there are many mind control techniques that destructive cults use, emotional control is one of their most powerful weapons for keeping people dependent and obedient. Known as *phobia indoctrination*, it exposes a person to a series of persistent, irrational fears that initiate a closed cycle of fearful images, thoughts and feelings. The goal is to cause people to fear things that are actually harmless in reality. The cue can be internal or external, such as a thought, image, word, smell, feeling or behavior. This stimulus causes a person to generate negative feelings (often doom).
> 
> Anti-vaccination groups are doing the same thing today. Everyone is susceptible to mind control when under great stress and disorientation, and these groups use social media to bombard their targets with messages that sow doubt, fear and confusion about the Covid-19 vaccine. As a result, a significant portion of the US population is refusing to get vaccinated and putting themselves at risk of being hospitalized or dying from Covid-19. “
> 
> The rest off the article is here
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/29/...ne-anti-vaxxers-social-media-cults/index.html


Your post can go both ways - it can be for vaccine individuals as well.  I do find your post interesting....keep the post coming.


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## Shero

Ladybj said:


> Your post can go both ways - it can be for vaccine individuals as well.  I do find your post interesting....keep the post coming.


Will do my best. Hope you and votre mari are both doing okay.


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## Ladybj

Shero said:


> Will do my best. Hope you and votre mari are both doing okay.


He's hanging in there.


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## Shero

Ladybj said:


> He's hanging in there.


Très bien


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## Buckeye

Buckeye said:


> Here's the kind of news story I hate to read - a former Ohio State Buckeye is in ICU suffering from Covid.  He played about 20 years ago, so he is in his early 40s.  Yes, I know, what's one more when over 700,000 have already died, but this seems especially tragic
> 
> https://thespun.com/big-ten/ohio-st...y-induced-coma-virus-mekka-don-jonathan-wells


It was announced on Friday that Ivan Douglas has passed away.  May he rest in peace.  

Ivan Douglas


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## SeaBreeze

Buckeye said:


> It was announced on Friday that Ivan Douglas has passed away.  May he rest in peace.
> 
> Ivan Douglas


So sad, may he rest peacefully.


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## win231

Tom 86 said:


> On our local news at 5 am this morning.  They were saying we now have Polio, & about 80% of the ones coming in from south of the border have Conav_19.    We eradicated polio many years ago.  & now it's coming back in down south.
> 
> So are we ready for a Polio pandemic like 60+ years ago?


Vaccines!  More Vaccines!


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## MarciKS

win231 said:


> You're probably assuming that anyone who doesn't want the Covid vaccine is an "Anti Vaxxer."  A common misconception & an attempt to make those who choose not to get a Covid vaccine seem "wacko & way out there."  Funny how those who don't want the vaccine have no need to ridicule those who choose to get vaccinated.
> You are also confusing "Fear" with "Caution."
> As I've always said, health decisions belong to each individual & no one else.


calling people sheep is ridicule and i see it all the time on here. so don't even say you all don't ridicule that's a lie.


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## win231

MarciKS said:


> calling people sheep is ridicule and i see it all the time on here. so don't even say you all don't ridicule that's a lie.


I don't start out ridiculing people.  I ridicule people in retaliation who insult me first.
But.....I'm sure you already know that; you couldn't possibly be that dense.


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## garyt1957

squatting dog said:


> A report from the CDC shows that currently the number of deaths that are caused by COVID-19 ONLY  are actually 5%   and that number may actually be less, because the CDC says there may be “a lack of detail” about the other conditions that contributed to the death:
> So, of the 600,000 deaths to date, only about 30,000 actually died of covid 19, and that number may still be questionable.
> 
> View attachment 188999


They were walking around before covid, caught covid and died. I call that a covid death.


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## win231

garyt1957 said:


> They were walking around before covid, caught covid and died. I call that a covid death.


We like things nice & simple.
Like most things in life, it's not that simple.


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## Warrigal

Sunny said:


> Flunked French in high school, eh, Win?


I studied French for 5 years  but even so nowdays I use online translation to get things right. If only I could have done that back in 1959.


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## garyt1957

win231 said:


> We like things nice & simple.
> Like most things in life, it's not that simple.



Oh, but some times it is


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## Aneeda72

I read through this entire thread.

As I have said before, on other threads, and am saying now, win has become a troll on the Covid threads.  I like win.  But apparently he likes to get attention and uses the Covid threads to do so.  I suggest people simply ignore what he posts on these threads until he can get his responses under control, and follow the rules he learned in kindergarten.

After all, we don’t want to give win high blood pressure which could cause a stroke which could cause him to be admitted to the hospital which might cause him to catch covid, a disease he does not believe in, which might result in his death, and his certificate falsely reading that he died of Covid-19 when he actually died of being a troll on the Covid threads.

Such an end would be extremely sad,- for win.

This is all speculation, of course.  And sarcasm.

Cause we all like win a great deal; otherwise we would all have him on ignore and he would be talking to himself, and he would have to get therapy for talking to himself, and see a therapist, in person.  And the therapist might have Covid, and win claims he is not vaccinated, so he might catch Covid from the therapist and not go to the doctor cause he does not believe in Covid and, oh dear me, we all know how this ends, again.

Poor @win231


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## kssf

I listened to the forum from this website 8 doctors including experts, etc.  They said in the end of discussion (the way I interpreted it) that TREATMENTS are the way to go in the very early stages.  The reason they don't push treatments is because they are making more money with the vaccines.  I spoke with my pharmacist in my hometown.  I asked him if the FDA and CDC can be trusted?  He said it is corrupt.  OK now what?  Is this the new America?  Our president isn't looking out for our interests okay?  It's obvious.  So, where do I go from here - they said there are going to be many variants coming - do we have to have 1 booster and then 2 and then 3 and then 4 - it could go on forever?  Where can we get the real truthful information?  Our doctors are probably told by the CDC and FDA would they are supposed to do - but then? I am very confused.  What do any of you think?  We all need to do our research but don't have a clue where to go.  We were always taken care of by our Presidents but now - no - glad I'm 78 - don't see much hope.


----------



## Granny B.

SeaBreeze said:


> There are people with heart disease, diabetes, obesity issues, etc., etc.  who would still be alive today if they did not contract the COVID-19 virus.


This is the responsible and compassionate view, imho, and a big reason why I got the shot.


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## win231

kssf said:


> I listened to the forum from this website 8 doctors including experts, etc.  They said in the end of discussion (the way I interpreted it) that TREATMENTS are the way to go in the very early stages.  The reason they don't push treatments is because they are making more money with the vaccines.  I spoke with my pharmacist in my hometown.  I asked him if the FDA and CDC can be trusted?  He said it is corrupt.  OK now what?  Is this the new America?  Our president isn't looking out for our interests okay?  It's obvious.  So, where do I go from here - they said there are going to be many variants coming - do we have to have 1 booster and then 2 and then 3 and then 4 - it could go on forever?  Where can we get the real truthful information?  Our doctors are probably told by the CDC and FDA would they are supposed to do - but then? I am very confused.  What do any of you think?  We all need to do our research but don't have a clue where to go.  We were always taken care of by our Presidents but now - no - glad I'm 78 - don't see much hope.


^^^^ Pretty much nailed it.   Like just about everything, it's all about money.


----------



## chic

garyt1957 said:


> They were walking around before covid, caught covid and died. I call that a covid death.


If that works when someone who gets vaxxed and dies 15 min later, it's the vaccine.


----------



## Aneeda72

kssf said:


> I listened to the forum from this website 8 doctors including experts, etc.  They said in the end of discussion (the way I interpreted it) that TREATMENTS are the way to go in the very early stages.  The reason they don't push treatments is because they are making more money with the vaccines.  I spoke with my pharmacist in my hometown.  I asked him if the FDA and CDC can be trusted?  He said it is corrupt.  OK now what?  Is this the new America?  Our president isn't looking out for our interests okay?  It's obvious.  So, where do I go from here - they said there are going to be many variants coming - do we have to have 1 booster and then 2 and then 3 and then 4 - it could go on forever?  Where can we get the real truthful information?  Our doctors are probably told by the CDC and FDA would they are supposed to do - but then? I am very confused.  What do any of you think?  We all need to do our research but don't have a clue where to go.  We were always taken care of by our Presidents but now - no - glad I'm 78 - don't see much hope.


First, no political statements!  Since I strongly disagree with your references to presidents please don’t make them, due to forum rules I can not respond without risking closing this thread.

Second, who made the pharmacist an expert on anything?  We tend to trust people who agree with our opinion .

No one is forcing you to take the vaccine or the boosters unless you are in a nursing home which requires them, if so and you don’t want to take them, then move.  

Your statement that more money is made on vaccines than Covid treatment is, well, incorrect.  Covid treatment is very expensive and funerals are very expensive.  Have you ever been in the hospital?-seen a bill from a hospital.

Your last sentence-you don’t see much hope?  Hope for what?


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> I don't start out ridiculing people.  I ridicule people in retaliation who insult me first.
> But.....I'm sure you already know that; you couldn't possibly be that dense.


We know you always take the low road on the Covid threads, but then you know that as well.  As for “I ridicule people in retaliation” have you ever considered that people ridicule you because it’s just soooo easy?  And your so-called retaliation is expected, and just another means others have of “getting your goat”.

I would suggest that someone IS a bit dense, but not the person you are referring too @win231 You are not winning -WIN.  Give it a rest for your own sake.


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> We like things nice & simple.
> Like most things in life, it's not that simple.


Yes, yes it is


----------



## Aneeda72

Warrigal said:


> I studied French for 5 years  but even so nowdays I use online translation to get things right. If only I could have done that back in 1959.


I have spoken English my entire life.  I even spoke baby talk in English.  Now days I mostly use Alex to do my spelling.  If only I could have done that on my spelling tests back in school, had Alex, life would have been so much better.


----------



## John cycling

Aneeda72 said:


> First, no political statements!



So anyone posting the truth is making a political statement, but not you of course.   



Aneeda72 said:


> No one is forcing you to take the vaccine or the boosters



Good grief.  



Aneeda72 said:


> Your statement that more money is made on vaccines than Covid treatment is, well, incorrect.  Covid treatment is very expensive and funerals are very expensive.  Have you ever been in the hospital?-seen a bill from a hospital.



No one getting effective inexpensive treatments is getting them inside of a hospital.  They're either doing it on their own, which is the preferred method, or else getting the treatments from somebody else but not inside of a hospital.

@Aneeda72, just because you go to a hospital for every imagined affliction doesn't mean that anyone else has to do the same thing.  I never go to doctors or hospitals for anything.  I take care of myself 100 percent, and I'm in a much better condition by doing so than you are.

The procedures done inside of hospitals are extremely expensive to the people who survive them or to their surviving families when they've been killed by them.

However, the billions made by the vaccination corporations every month are much greater than even the hospitals make.


----------



## Aneeda72

John cycling said:


> So now (as before) anyone posting the truth is making a political statement, but not you of course.
> 
> 
> 
> That's so obviously wrong to anyone who has their eyes open.
> 
> 
> 
> You're contradicting yourself.  First of all, no one getting inexpensive treatments is getting them inside of a hospital.  They're either doing it on their own, which is the preferred method, or else getting the treatments from somebody else but not inside of a hospital where the procedures are barbaric and expensive.  Plus even though the procedures done inside of hospitals are expensive to the surviving families of the people they've killed, the billions made by the vaccination corporations every month are much greater.


What political statment did I make?  Sheesh.  

There is no “home“treatment for Covid except rest, drink plenty of water, and wait to get well or go to the hospital.  

As for the rest of your statement, you should re read it and edit as it does not make sense.


----------



## Alizerine

kssf said:


> I listened to the forum from this website 8 doctors including experts, etc.  They said in the end of discussion (the way I interpreted it) that TREATMENTS are the way to go in the very early stages.  The reason they don't push treatments is because they are making more money with the vaccines.  I spoke with my pharmacist in my hometown.  I asked him if the FDA and CDC can be trusted?  He said it is corrupt.  OK now what?  Is this the new America?  Our president isn't looking out for our interests okay?  It's obvious.  So, where do I go from here - they said there are going to be many variants coming - do we have to have 1 booster and then 2 and then 3 and then 4 - it could go on forever?  Where can we get the real truthful information?  Our doctors are probably told by the CDC and FDA would they are supposed to do - but then? I am very confused.  What do any of you think?  We all need to do our research but don't have a clue where to go.  We were always taken care of by our Presidents but now - no - glad I'm 78 - don't see much hope.


Maybe your pharmacist listens to Tucker Carlson.


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> We know you always take the low road on the Covid threads, but then you know that as well.  As for “I ridicule people in retaliation” have you ever considered that people ridicule you because it’s just soooo easy?  And your so-called retaliation is expected, and just another means others have of “getting your goat”.
> 
> I would suggest that someone IS a bit dense, but not the person you are referring too @win231 You are not winning -WIN.  Give it a rest for your own sake.


Be glad to give it a rest. 
When you & your ilk do the same.


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Be glad to give it a rest.
> When you & your ilk do the same.


I have ilk?  Hmm, Alexa could not define ilk, so hold on, be right back, just want to make sure I am on the same page as you are.  I always get ilk and elk confused, so does Alexa.  Elk is what you eat, yup I do not have an elk.

Ilk is people who think and believe, like me, in a pandemic.  The millions of people, that I do not know, world wide that believe in the vaccines for COVID-19; and then even more millions who believe in the virus.

And then there is @win231 spewing his disbelief in the pandemic, the virus, and vaccines while he wears a mask when he is shopping.  . The irony should not escape anyone.  Win will rest when he has convinced the world he is right.  Thus providing us all with at least a few more months or entertainment.

Anyhow @win231  keep on keeping on.


----------



## Aneeda72

John cycling said:


> So anyone posting the truth is making a political statement, but not you of course.
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief.
> 
> 
> 
> No one getting effective inexpensive treatments is getting them inside of a hospital.  They're either doing it on their own, which is the preferred method, or else getting the treatments from somebody else but not inside of a hospital.
> 
> @Aneeda72, just because you go to a hospital for every imagined affiction doesn't mean that anyone else has to do the same thing.  I never go to doctors or hospitals for anything.  I take care of myself 100 percent, and I'm in a much better condition by doing so than you are.
> 
> The procedures done inside of hospitals are extremely expensive to the people who survive them or to their surviving families when they've been killed by them.
> 
> However, the billions made by the vaccination corporations every month are much greater than even the hospitals make.


Oh, gee you must tell me how you removed your own kidney, pulled your own teeth, and that valve replacement during open heart surgery-was the mirror you used on the ceiling or did you do it standing up?

Please let me know next time you walk on water.  I would love to watch.


----------



## bingo

the cruelty  shown in here by many members is worse than any deadly disease


----------



## kssf

What I am trying to say is early treatment is available and these medications according to the experts work. So they get well and don't have to get on a ventilator and they live. These doctors from this forum say these meds r a better way to go obviously as they have been proven. The vaccines r still a mystery because they still don't know how long we have protection. A lot of unknowns. Going to a hospital and having a ventilator is expensive and some die. That is truly very sad when early treatment is available and u get well.


----------



## garyt1957

chic said:


> If that works when someone who gets vaxxed and dies 15 min later, it's the vaccine.


Could be, but htta has nothing to do with the topic at hand, are the numbers fudged


----------



## chic

bingo said:


> the cruelty  shown in here by many members is worse than any deadly disease


Yes, it is and that should never happen. We're all human beings and owe each other respect.


----------



## chic

win231 said:


> Vaccines!  More Vaccines!


Turn off the darned news. It's done more to harm people during this pandemic.


----------

