# What Does Long Term Care Cost Outside of the  US?



## Underock1 (Oct 4, 2015)

Just curious how nursing home costs are handled in other countries. Its a major problem here in the US that gets little press. It is not covered by Medicare. It is covered by Medicaid, but you have to be reduced to poverty in order to get it. The average annual cost here in NJ is 110,000. a year! The premiums for long term care insurance are so prohibitive that you end up just as bad. This often costs people their life savings and eventually their homes.


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## Warrigal (Oct 4, 2015)

In Australia nursing home care is subsidised by the Federal government. The rate that the client pays is set according to a means test. For people whose only income is the aged pension, the daily rate is 85% of the pension, leaving 15% for the purchase of incidentals. Medical care is free for pensioners under our medicare scheme.

For people with higher incomes or substantial assets, there is a graduated scale of increasing daily rate charges. Nursing homes can charge an accommodation bond which is held while the client is in residence. Interest from this deposit is kept by the home and they can also deduct some of the capital for a maximum of 5 years. Any residue is returned to the client when they leave or to the estate when they die. 

This link helps people to calculate what nursing home care will cost http://www.myagedcare.gov.au/financial-and-legal/aged-care-homes-costs-explained


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## jujube (Oct 4, 2015)

I read an article a couple of years ago about a man who "outsourced" his elderly disabled parents to India.  He was able to work from anywhere in the world, so he moved his parents (dad had alzheimers, mom had parkinsons) there.  For approximately $3,000 a month, he had a large house in the suburbs and good care for his parents.  Both of his parents had their own attendants, who treated the elderly folks with loving care.  American-trained doctors and good hospitals are available to those who can afford them.  His parents were able to stay together at home and he was assured of their care since he was there to supervise.  Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

After seeing The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel and it's sequel, I'm ready to retire to India.


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## Debby (Nov 3, 2015)

I think here in Canada it's pretty much the same as it is in Australia.  I know my one aunt who had no savings except the value of the little apartment that she lived in prior to going to the care home, and a percentage of her costs was subsidized in large part by the government for her care in the last six years or so of her life.

Here, a one bedroom little apartment with a kitchenette and two meals per day provided costs about $2500.00 per month I think.  And then as more care is needed, those services are charged for as used.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 3, 2015)

In Scotland, care home costs average between £600-800 per week depending on how much nursing care you need.  It's means tested so you pay what you can afford and the government picks up the rest.  Not sure what you pay if you have assets like a home.  Some people sign over their home to their kids when one parent is diagnosed with dementia or ill health.  

Husband's uncle is in a nice care home.  He didn't own a home when he was diagnosed with dementia.  Most of his small work pension and state pension go directly to pay for his care and he gets a monthly allowance from it for personal needs.  The government pays the rest of the tab.


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## Underock1 (Nov 3, 2015)

It sounds like you pretty much end up wiped out, wherever you are. I can not end up in a nursing home. I have full dentures, two different pairs of eye glasses, and two hearing aids that I need in order to function as a half a human being. You know that those are going to get lost, broken or taken away from me. With visual, verbal, and hearing problems, I am going to be absolutely helpless and be avoided like the plague by the staff. Please give me permission to kill myself and let me leave something behind for my son and grandkids.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 3, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> It sounds like you pretty much end up wiped out, wherever you are. I can not end up in a nursing home. I have full dentures, two different pairs of eye glasses, and two hearing aids that I need in order to function as a half a human being. You know that those are going to get lost, broken or taken away from me. With visual, verbal, and hearing problems, I am going to be absolutely helpless and be avoided like the plague by the staff. Please give me permission to kill myself and let me leave something behind for my son and grandkids.



In the UK you have the NHS though.  And if you are low enough income you also get hearing aids, glasses, dental free.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 3, 2015)

Here we have Medicaid, but as said.. all your assets have to be gone before you can get that.  I'm hoping to be independent until I just don't wake up one morning..  Hope someone finds me before the cats eat me.


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## Underock1 (Nov 3, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> In the UK you have the NHS though.  And if you are low enough income you also get hearing aids, glasses, dental free.



It isn't the cost I'm worried about, Annie. If I'm in there, I'm already destitute. Its my inability to function if deprived of their use. If they don't get lost or broken, I may not even be capable of using them. It will not be a happy scene.


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## Warrigal (Nov 3, 2015)

You get your dentures engraved with your initials because these can get mixed up. My MIL was complaining that her dentures didn't fit and this went on for some days until we were ready to order a new set and then they mysteriously turned up. Somehow she had got hold of someone else's but no one seemed to be missing any. 

Glasses and hearing aids are less of a problem but I did make sure I took a photo of my mum wearing her glasses in case they went missing. Again, an engraver to mark them on the piece that goes behind the ear will make things easier if there is ever a mix up.

Don't be afraid of receiving care in your time of need, Underock. Fear is worse than the actual experience.

If you are without family support I suggest that you start a folder and collect within it your prescriptions for glasses and accounts from your dental mechanic and hearing aid supplier. It will serve as a quick reference point should you need replacements. The folder can be used for a lot of other useful documents and data too. You can record your preferences in music and food, details of your working life etc. This will allow carers to talk to you as a real person with a real history.

You may never need your folder because you may drop dead suddenly one day but in the meantime, you have a new project.


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## Underock1 (Nov 3, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> You get your dentures engraved with your initials because these can get mixed up. My MIL was complaining that her dentures didn't fit and this went on for some days until we were ready to order a new set and then they mysteriously turned up. Somehow she had got hold of someone else's but no one seemed to be missing any.
> 
> Glasses and hearing aids are less of a problem but I did make sure I took a photo of my mum wearing her glasses in case they went missing. Again, an engraver to mark them on the piece that goes behind the ear will make things easier if there is ever a mix up.
> 
> ...



Thanks Warri. I appreciate your obvious concern. I do have one son who has already saved my life with paper work and some things around the house, but I know his time is limited. If I end up in a home, I will be on my own 90% of the time. I know what it takes to get me through a day now. Won't take much to make living a prolonged nightmare. The plan is, as you suggested to drop dead suddenly on my living room floor. Statistically, I have a good shot. If I develop a heart problem,
I don't plan to fix it. I've already stopped going for any kind of check up. What will be, will be.


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## Warrigal (Nov 3, 2015)

One of my favourite passages from Shakespeare is Julius Caesar's speech about death.



> Cowards die many times before their deaths.
> The valiant never taste of death but once.
> Of all the wonders that I yet have heard,
> It seems to me most strange that men should fear,
> ...



I think the same valour is required to face the end times, not just the moment of death but the slow descent into the valley.
It doesn't pay to dwell on it too much. I try to live in the present and find joy and peace of mind in the small things each day.


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## Underock1 (Nov 3, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> One of my favourite passages from Shakespeare is Julius Caesar's speech about death.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's a reason why old Will is still taught. I do not consider myself a hero by any means. The idea of death, and as a non-believer, I mean _final _death, does not trouble me in the least. The dying process certainly does. Given the option of a quick death, who would choose to drag it out in a joyless condition of helplessness as a burden to others?  
I agree. Living in the present and finding peace of mind in the small things each day is the way to go. I can also see circumstances where there are no small things left to find peace and joy in.


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## Warrigal (Nov 3, 2015)

I have no fear of the process of dying. I've been down that path with three of my dear old ones as far as the final closing of the curtains. It was a privilege to accompany them and be their comfort.

My daughter once observed that even in her dementia my mother still had more to give. Her final gift was to bring my daughter and my niece close together as they went together on visits to the nursing home. From my point of view she gave me her need for physical and emotional care and it brought out the best in me. That is how the gift works.

As long as you are breathing, you still have something to offer those around you.


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## Underock1 (Nov 3, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> I have no fear of the process of dying. I've been down that path with three of my dear old ones as far as the final closing of the curtains. It was a privilege to accompany them and be their comfort.
> 
> My daughter once observed that even in her dementia my mother still had more to give. Her final gift was to bring my daughter and my niece close together as they went together on visits to the nursing home. From my point of view she gave me her need for physical and emotional care and it brought out the best in me. That is how the gift works.
> 
> As long as you are breathing, you still have something to offer those around you.



I am happy that that works for you, Warri. As I've posted on here before, the last two months that my wife was in the hospital were some of the most loving days of our life. If she had lived longer, her mild dementia would have rapidly become worse, she would still have to be poked and prodded with four hours of dialysis three times a week. She had just been diagnosed with the first sign of Colon cancer. With my own problems, visiting her regularly on a long term basis would have been impossible. Our assets would have been totally destroyed. Nothing would be left for me to pass on to the people I love, where the money could be put to much better use. We are all different. I see nothing happy about that situation. I would much prefer to go quickly and give the people I love the gift of freedom.


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## Butterfly (Nov 3, 2015)

"I would much prefer to go quickly and give the people I love the gift of freedom."

And I, as well.


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## Warrigal (Nov 4, 2015)

Cost is not such an issue here. People are not made bankrupt because of their medical needs.


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## Debby (Nov 5, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> Thanks Warri. I appreciate your obvious concern. I do have one son who has already saved my life with paper work and some things around the house, but I know his time is limited. If I end up in a home, I will be on my own 90% of the time. I know what it takes to get me through a day now. Won't take much to make living a prolonged nightmare. The plan is, as you suggested to drop dead suddenly on my living room floor. Statistically, I have a good shot. If I develop a heart problem,
> I don't plan to fix it. I've already stopped going for any kind of check up. What will be, will be.




I think there are lots of people who think the same way as you Underock.  I'm probably a bit younger than you, but I've written out directives that should anything go wrong and I can't sign/agree to a treatment, my family will know that I want to be let go.  In the vague hope that 'you get what you ask for', I focus on 85 as being my year of checking out.  My aunts both died when they were 92 and until 85 they were doing well and then started going downhill in health and mental well being.


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