# Re: Guns in US



## Ed Mashburn (Aug 2, 2016)

*Re: Guns in US*

Good morning to all- I expect my opinion concerning guns and gun control is fairly well-known here- I've expressed it several times. I believe with all my heart there are too many guns and too too many guns of the wrong kind present in the wrong hands.
I do not expect any kind of meaningful gun restriction legislation to come along in my lifetime. The gun is too much a part of American culture.
I am the only male of my age that I know who doesn't have several guns, and most of my friends have and carry handguns on a daily basis. I choose not to have and carry guns because I am not prepared to use a gun to kill someone else, and if you're not prepared to use a gun, there's no reason to have it and carry it. 
Many men in particular carry handguns because it's a cheap and easy way to strut their stuff and look big and bad.  Having a gun is a way to demonstrate to the world that I'm a bad dude.
I have never, ever been in a situation where having a gun would have made things better.
But I do not think guns will ever be restricted in the US. Too much money is being made by big companies which sell guns. 
And in the mean time, people- mostly people who are not carrying guns- are being killed.
So I choose to not have guns.
Good day to all- Ed


----------



## Ameriscot (Aug 2, 2016)

I agree Ed.  I HATE guns.  Not allowed where I live.  Had a school shooting 20 years ago, no more guns, no more mass killings.  Unlike the US where it's a weekly occurance.


----------



## Butterfly (Aug 2, 2016)

Ed Mashburn said:


> Good morning to all- I expect my opinion concerning guns and gun control is fairly well-known here- I've expressed it several times. I believe with all my heart there are too many guns and too too many guns of the wrong kind present in the wrong hands.
> I do not expect any kind of meaningful gun restriction legislation to come along in my lifetime. The gun is too much a part of American culture.
> I am the only male of my age that I know who doesn't have several guns, and most of my friends have and carry handguns on a daily basis. I choose not to have and carry guns because I am not prepared to use a gun to kill someone else, and if you're not prepared to use a gun, there's no reason to have it and carry it.
> Many men in particular carry handguns because it's a cheap and easy way to strut their stuff and look big and bad.  Having a gun is a way to demonstrate to the world that I'm a bad dude.
> ...



I disagree.  Most of the people killed in shootings (absent the Dallas shootings against police officers) are people who DID NOT have guns, like the folks in the Pulse shootings, etc.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 2, 2016)

Ed Mashburn said:


> I choose not to have and carry guns because I am not prepared to use a gun to kill someone else, and if you're not prepared to use a gun, there's no reason to have it and carry it.
> 
> Many men in particular carry handguns because it's a cheap and easy way to strut their stuff and look big and bad.  Having a gun is a way to demonstrate to the world that I'm a bad dude.
> 
> ...



Good afternoon Ed-

I'm glad you choose not to have or carry a gun, if you are afraid of them and not prepared or knowledgeable enough to use them, it's the wise thing to do.  I'd rather see people like you without a gun in their home or in their possession, better for us all.

There are many law abiding responsible American citizens who own guns and now conceal carry.  They do not in any way do so to 'strut their stuff and look big and bad'.  That's your biased opinion, and unreasonable to paint all firearm owners with such a negative broad brush. But it's common to see the anti-gun people like yourself engaging in this type of insulting criticism.

I have never been in a situation where having a gun would have made things better or saved my life, and hopefully I never will have to be.  But if that situation did present itself in my home, I hopefully would be alive to tell my story, not another dead victim of a criminal.

Good day Ed-


----------



## Manatee (Aug 2, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> I agree Ed.  I HATE guns.  Not allowed where I live.  Had a school shooting 20 years ago, no more guns, no more mass killings.  Unlike the US where it's a weekly occurance.



The last time I was in the UK there was a news broadcast on the telly about a nutcase shooting up a fast food joint.  British law just says you can't defend yourself.


----------



## Ed Mashburn (Aug 2, 2016)

Good evening to all-
Seabreeze- Let's be accurate here. I am quite knowledgeable about guns, and I know damned well how to use them.When I raised livestock, I had a single shot .22 that went with me everywhere because I had to kill stray and abandoned dogs and coyotes that were trying to kill my calves and sheep. A single shot .22 was perfectly adequate for my needs. I used to hunt, too. I once had a number of rifles and shotguns. I am quite capable of using firearms.
But I have no reason to have guns now. I don't hunt- I don't like  the taste of most wild game, and if I'm not going to consume the game, I'm not going to kill it. And as far as handguns go, I have never been in a situation where I needed one.
I have had students who were severely injured and killed by firearms-handguns in every case-, and if losing a promising student to some sort of stupid gun-related action doesn't make you think that perhaps there are too many guns in our society, then you see the world through different eyes from me.
And while my opinion may be biased about men who carry handguns and make it obvious to the world that they are carrying, I do believe in many cases that these men are not really ever in any danger from being attacked and therefore in need of protection. I do believe a lot of men like to strut their stuff and let the world know how big a man they are.
And as far as needing a handgun to survive a bad situation, perhaps we shouldn't put ourselves in bad places for bad situations to develop. And yes, I do believe that we can see a lot of bad situations coming in time to avoid them.
With all due respect, I think you underestimate me and my depth of feeling on this topic. And I don't expect that we'll ever find any agreement on this question.
Good evening to all- Ed


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 2, 2016)

Ed Mashburn said:


> Good evening to all-
> Seabreeze- Let's be accurate here. I am quite knowledgeable about guns, and I know damned well how to use them.When I raised livestock, I had a single shot .22 that went with me everywhere because I had to kill stray and abandoned dogs and coyotes that were trying to kill my calves and sheep.
> 
> But I have no reason to have guns now. I don't hunt- I don't like  the taste of most wild game, and if I'm not going to consume the game, I'm not going to kill it. And as far as handguns go, I have never been in a situation where I needed one.
> ...





You've made it clear that you're damned well capable of shooting a gun Ed, good for you.  So am I, but unlike you I've never killed anything like dogs or coyotes with my guns.  I don't hunt either, but if I needed the meat for food I would.

I think there are too many criminals in our society, _not _too many guns.  I don't conceal carry (yet), as I haven't felt the need to.  I will have a gun when in the wilderness camping for protection from any attacker, two or four-legged.  In all my years, even closely around bears and coyotes, I haven't had to kill to protect myself.

The bad situation I mentioned is if an intruder came into my home to do harm to me or my family, in that case I'd have no problem at all using the gun to protect myself from being a victim of a criminal.  Unlike you Ed, I don't need a reason or excuse to own a firearm.

I don't underestimate your deep feelings on this topic at all, there are many more just like you out there.  My pleasure to agree to disagree, I wouldn't want it any other way.


----------



## Butterfly (Aug 2, 2016)

Like SeaBreeze, I don't CC either.  But I DO have firearms in my home for self defense and if I ever had to use one for that purpose I wouldn't hesitate to do so.  I don't carry a weapon in my car when out and about in town (legal here), but I DO take one with me if I'm going to be out of the city through the desert and uninhabited areas, for protection against predators both human and non-human.  

I don't need a reason or excuse either -- I have the Second Amendment.


----------



## jnos (Aug 2, 2016)

Ed Mashburn said:
			
		

> And while my opinion may be biased about men who carry handguns and make it obvious to the world that they are carrying, I do believe in many cases that these men are not really ever in any danger from being attacked and therefore in need of protection. I do believe a lot of men like to strut their stuff and let the world know how big a man they are.



I have a next door neighbor (woman) who was just telling me she bought an additional handgun. She was so happy with it, she went back to the guy and got another. She didn't mention how many she already had, but there are now two more. She tried to joke by saying she'd "protect the neighborhood" while holding her hands like two guns shooting.

 My interpretation of my neighbor is, that after watching/listening to Conservative Talk Radio nonstop from morning til evening loud in the yard/neighborhood. I can't always make out the words but do recognize voices like Rush's. In my opinion she's listened to so much doom, gloom and fear mongering she's loading up her arsenal.


----------



## NancyNGA (Aug 2, 2016)

jnos said:


> ... In my opinion she's listened to so much doom, gloom and fear mongering she's loading up her arsenal.



This happened to my mother in the last few years of her life, watching nonstop crime reporting on the news on TV from Atlanta. That's about all they report on the news there.  She lived in the country, not even close to Atlanta.   And of course Atlanta has a metro population of 3 million, so you are always gonna find some crime to report. She started wanting a gun around all the time.  At least she didn't want it loaded, and was happy with a .22.    More for frightening an intruder, rather than shooting one. 

  My girlfriend keeps a loaded handgun in the nightstand near her bed all the time, and they have lots of young grandchildren who come to visit often.  How you gonna safely reach for it in the dark?  She says they put it away when the kids come to visit, but what if you forget one time?  

I think the odds of having an accident are much greater than the odds you would ever need it to frighten anyone off.  Just my take on it.  Big cities may be different.  Never lived in one.  A rifle or a shotgun works just as well to frighten someone.


----------



## Ameriscot (Aug 3, 2016)

Manatee said:


> The last time I was in the UK there was a news broadcast on the telly about a nutcase shooting up a fast food joint.  British law just says you can't defend yourself.



The guiding *laws for firearms in Scotland are the Firearms (Scotland) Rules 1989 and the Firearms Act (1968). All handguns, semi-automatic and pump-action non-rim-fire rifles are prohibited. A few pistols are licensed on a Firearm Certificate for exactly the same reasons as the rest of Great Britain.*

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/15/so-america-this-is-how-you-do-gun-control

Edit:  the McDonalds shooting was two teens in 2006.  Hardly a daily occurrance is it?


----------



## Debby (Aug 3, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> You've made it clear that you're damned well capable of shooting a gun Ed, good for you.  So am I, but unlike you I've never killed anything like dogs or coyotes with my guns.  I don't hunt either, but if I needed the meat for food I would.
> 
> I think there are too many criminals in our society, _not _too many guns.  I don't conceal carry (yet), as I haven't felt the need to.  I will have a gun when in the wilderness camping for protection from any attacker, two or four-legged.  In all my years, even closely around bears and coyotes, I haven't had to kill to protect myself.
> 
> ...




I know that you are very definite on your right to carry guns SeaBreeze, but I'd like to ask you, how do you feel about the failure of officials to curtail the straw purchases that apparently are sickenly easy to accomplish and which facilitate all those criminals getting their hands on weapons to assault the public and each other with?


----------



## rt3 (Aug 3, 2016)

Largest straw buy in history was in 2013 in Phonix Arizona by the mayor and city council illegal as heck no one went to jail
next largest was Fast and Furious staged by no less than Eric Holder of Wait for it The Dept of Justice one of Big Os bots nobody knows the total number of guns channeled to Mexican gun cartels 
next ones are by Bloombergs moms against guns who was stopped by a federal court just last week
They were trying to sucker gun dealers into selling them the guns
85% of gun crimes are done with stolen guns
When you buy a gun the 4377 form asks if it's a straw purchase and if it is you have just committed a felony
since the gov doesn't enforce the laws that are already there -- lets makes some more coupled with crimals following the law makes a special kind of stupid

most of the mass shootings have been done with legal channel guns

you should take heart though Mass AG has just outlawed the sale of mags greater 10 and those nasty assault rifles. Notice that is the public sale, there is nothing they can do about ownership violates Heller
and of course Cal just passed there laws that should make you happy, I am happily waiting to watch them try to enforce them
Washington state just pass a FTF law no face to face sales. I'm sure everyone into guns is still laughing still trying to figure out what it means
After 2 years the compliance rate for Conn. And NY who have these laws is only .05 % of ar owners registering. Does that mean that 1/2 million gun owners are standing in civil disobediene or they really don't know how many ars are out there so no accurate number

hillary will probably get to test the 35 or so states who changed their constitution to stop her specially in the previous 2 years

Big O just passed an executive order stating that all gunsmiths must register with ITAR. Getting really desperate here that means no screw drivers for you bunky

ED stop watching so much tv

and remember 

BLACK GUNS MATTER


----------



## Ed Mashburn (Aug 3, 2016)

Good evening to all- 
rt3- I assume that's your name- for your information, I do not watch tv. I do go through life with my eyes and ears open, and I see what's going on in the world.
And what's going on is this: Too many people on the US have too many guns, and kids and other people are being killed by guns.  And yes, I realize that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. I also realize that the world has changed very much since the Second Amendment was written, and I seriously doubt that the founders would see our society and the problems we face in the same light that they saw the problems of their time- and therefore, they probably would not think that unlimited gun access such as we have now would be such a very good thing.
As I mentioned earlier, having people close to you killed by guns- whether used in anger or in accident- changes the way you see the world. At least, it changed the way I see the world.
I hope that all of the "you can't make me give up MY guns" folks never have to deal with loved ones or other people close to you being killed or severely damaged by guns.
good evening to all- Ed


----------



## rt3 (Aug 3, 2016)

Expression Ed - watching tv -- living in a fantasy world, yours --chill

if you have an opinion --- it's on a bell curve --- somewhere

im just bringing you up to date on the legal stuff

you and quicksilver like to use arguements from emotion , one of the 11 deadly sins of debate , straw man , and slippery slopes are favorites here ---- you use it and I'll hammer you with it

to use your own form of arguement , after putting my hands on my hips and moving my head back and forth, "you don't know how many love ones I lost to guns in wars or on the  streets so don't "

so I hope when you all the 2nd Amd. Doesn't aply to blah blah blah folk you will at least be informed enough not to blah blah


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 3, 2016)

rt3 said:


> Expression Ed - watching tv -- living in a fantasy world, yours --chill
> 
> if you have an opinion --- it's on a bell curve --- somewhere
> 
> ...


I don't think he is living in a fantasy world.  He has had real experiences that have taught him about guns and have made him think the way  he does.  Everyone's point of view matters.


----------



## Ed Mashburn (Aug 3, 2016)

rt3- thank you very much for bringing me up to date on current expressions. I lost track on trying to keep up with such things when I quit teaching middle school. Also, thank you for educating me on debate technique- I haven't taught that for several years.
And as far as living in a fantasy world- I don't think speaking the truth- as I see it- is living in a fantasy world.
And be careful about putting your hands on your hips and moving your head- folks might get the wrong idea about you.
I appreciate your opinions, rt3- I just can't accept them.
I'm glad I'm going fishing tomorrow- I need to get away from the screen for awhile.
good evening to all- Ed


----------



## rt3 (Aug 3, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> I don't think he is living in a fantasy world.  He has had real experiences that have taught him about guns and have made him think the way  he does.  Everyone's point of view matters.



We all live in a fantasy world just ask Shali


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 3, 2016)

rt3 said:


> We all live in a fantasy world just ask Shali


Can't ask her.  But anyway why should I ask her when I know that is not true.  I don't live in a fantasy world.


----------



## rt3 (Aug 3, 2016)

Sorry your wrong

late Robin Williams but it best

"wow reality, what a concept"


----------



## rt3 (Aug 3, 2016)

Some people just deal with it better than others


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 3, 2016)

rt3 said:


> Sorry your wrong
> 
> late Robin Williams but it best
> 
> "wow reality, what a concept"


Sorry but you are wrong, there are people who really live in a fantasy world and they are being diagnosed:  http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/04/when-daydreaming-replaces-real-life/391319/


----------



## rt3 (Aug 3, 2016)

Sorry again but you don't get to define reality. Your using a comparative approach  exp. Disneyland is Fantasy, people with mental health issues can replace or project etc etc

there is no way any human can know reality with the limitations placed on their sensory equipment. Hills multiple universe destroys reality arguments on the theory level, Schroeder cat on the physics level, and Godels limited information on the math level. I'll do it now on the medical level. "Are you currently taking any prescription medications?"


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 3, 2016)

rt3 said:


> Sorry again but you don't get to define reality. Your using a comparative approach  exp. Disneyland is Fantasy, people with mental health issues can replace or project etc etc
> 
> there is no way any human can know reality with the limitations placed on their sensory equipment. Hills multiple universe destroys reality arguments on the theory level, Schroeder cat on the physics level, and Godels limited information on the math level. I'll do it now on the medical level. "Are you currently taking any prescription medications?"


And you get to define reality? You don't know what approach I am using obviously as I didn't say any of those things you are saying!  I gave you an article to read *that proves what I was saying* and I don't know what all you are talking about on all that stuff you said.

Yes, fantasy is a vital part of life but the article is about people who actually "live in a fantasy world" as per your words.

First of all you told me to let Shali define my reality and when I didn't you seemed to get unhinged. Many things define my reality.

PS.  I am ending this argument as it is not going anywhere.  Peace.  I guess we are off topic too.  LOL


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 3, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> Sorry but you are wrong, there are people who really live in a fantasy world and they are being diagnosed:  http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/04/when-daydreaming-replaces-real-life/391319/


for anyone who wants to see someone who actually "lives in a fantasy world".


----------



## rt3 (Aug 3, 2016)

I work in that world prescribe the meds , diagnose sometimes administer don't need to read Atlantic
i gave you three reads you could -- do Hills, Schrodger, Godel as soon as you catch up to what some of the great thinkers have said about altered states get back. 

Any prescription drug alters the response and cognitive abilities. Society only has enough hospital beds to treat a small portion. The rest are medicated or counseled so they can still get out on the streets. Some, like the ones in Atlantic article, are unable too.

Rolling Stones, Hey you get off of my cloud and a one and two 

not trying to change your reality, but until you get that parrot off your shoulder this conversion is over


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 3, 2016)

Debby said:


> ...how do you feel about the failure of officials to curtail the straw purchases that apparently are sickenly easy to accomplish and which facilitate all those criminals getting their hands on weapons to assault the public and each other with?



I think the _criminals _should be dealt with, and like Rt3 said, the government has to enforce the laws that are already on the books.  As far as straw purchases being 'sickenly' easy to accomplish, that's something I doubt since the form that Rt3 mentioned, takes care of straw purchases or the violator is charged with a felony.  Also numerous states have added regulations that require background checks for private sales/transfers, many private sellers in those states just go through a licensed dealer.  

_Arrest _'all those criminals getting their hands on weapons', that's how I feel.  The criminals do not follow gun laws, a fact that falls on deaf ears regardless of how often repeated.

​


----------



## Manatee (Aug 3, 2016)

> Edit:  the McDonalds shooting was two teens in 2006.  Hardly a daily occurrance is it?



I wasn't in the UK in 2006.


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 3, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> I think the _criminals _should be dealt with, and like Rt3 said, the government has to enforce the laws that are already on the books.  As far as straw purchases being 'sickenly' easy to accomplish, that's something I doubt since the form that Rt3 mentioned, takes care of straw purchases or the violator is charged with a felony.  Also numerous states have added regulations that require background checks for private sales/transfers, many private sellers in those states just go through a licensed dealer.
> 
> _Arrest _'all those criminals getting their hands on weapons', that's how I feel.  The criminals do not follow gun laws, a fact that falls on deaf ears regardless of how often repeated.
> 
> ​


Yes, I agree to arrest the criminals getting their hands on weapons but it is often not until they commit a crime with the gun that they are arrested, no?


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 3, 2016)

Ed Mashburn said:


> Good evening to all-
> Too many people on the US have too many guns, and kids and other people are being killed by guns.  And yes, I realize that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. I also realize that the world has changed very much since the Second Amendment was written, and I seriously doubt that the founders would see our society and the problems we face in the same light that they saw the problems of their time- and therefore, they probably would not think that unlimited gun access such as we have now would be such a very good thing.
> As I mentioned earlier, having people close to you killed by guns- whether used in anger or in accident- changes the way you see the world. At least, it changed the way I see the world.
> 
> good evening to all- Ed


Ed, I have thought about that, too.  Times have changed drastically. I wonder if the laws from 230 or so years ago really fit with today's society.  I'm not saying to take away the second amendment but some updating of it may be a good idea!!!  But then no one would go for it probably! Or would they??


----------



## Ameriscot (Aug 3, 2016)

Manatee said:


> I wasn't in the UK in 2006.


 
Really?  Then what shooting are you talking about?  Can't be hard to find it online.  We don't have that many.


----------



## rt3 (Aug 4, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> Yes, I agree to arrest the criminals getting their hands on weapons but it is often not until they commit a crime with the gun that they are arrested, no?



No not correct. Most criminals are not rehabilitated and most are on parole. If caught with a weapon they go back or additional charges are brought. A far bigger problem is drugs. The cops know who the bad guys are and pat them down for drugs. In about 30 % of these encounters the parole is carrying. They are arrested and the gun which is stolen property is returned to its owner.

with the us having such rates of folks in prison it puts a lot of pressure on the financial resources of the tax bases.

several towns in the us have very to virtually no crime rates no detention center, any only 1 or 2 cops per 10000 people.
cody Wyoming and Gunsite Arizona
it is a city ordance that citizens carry


----------



## rt3 (Aug 4, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> Ed, I have thought about that, too.  Times have changed drastically. I wonder if the laws from 230 or so years ago really fit with today's society.  I'm not saying to take away the second amendment but some updating of it may be a good idea!!!  But then NO ONE would go for it probably!



The problem is not having sunset laws such as the one put on Slick Willies AWB back in the nineties . This leaves many unenforceable laws on the books and a burden on law enforcement resources.
The biggest problem is a law making system that does not have a feedback system to determine if the laws are doing what they were passed for in the first place.

with the swing door system of get criminals out of one system and into society self defense and carry become even more important


----------



## rt3 (Aug 4, 2016)

The main problem with criminals and guns is rarely talked about. Why do criminals get guns? The answer is not to commit robberies etc. these items are what makes the press. Most criminals get a gun for protection. Some deal drugs and know another criminal will steal from them some have made enemies which gets into the gang stuff.
whether these folks should be allowed the right of self defence I will not get into. One fact is very clear. They don't give chit what you think. Because they have been denied access thru legal channels they will get them any way they can.
So let's punish law abiding people by doing away with guns, knowing full well that prohibition type legislation works so well.

fortunately the gun sales in June and July have doubled since even last year. NRA membership has doubled from 5 mill. Members in pre Obama to 10 mil. 

I would personally like to thank Big O, for his historic gun sales, and thank Hills for her astronomical triple kick in the last 2 months and her work on NRA membership increase over the last year. Now where can send the Fickle Finger of Fate so they can enjoy it?


----------



## Debby (Aug 4, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> I think the _criminals _should be dealt with, and like Rt3 said, the government has to enforce the laws that are already on the books.  As far as straw purchases being 'sickenly' easy to accomplish, that's something I doubt since the form that Rt3 mentioned, takes care of straw purchases or the violator is charged with a felony.  Also numerous states have added regulations that require background checks for private sales/transfers, many private sellers in those states just go through a licensed dealer.
> 
> _Arrest _'all those criminals getting their hands on weapons', that's how I feel.  The criminals do not follow gun laws, a fact that falls on deaf ears regardless of how often repeated.
> 
> ​




Well according to the following article straw purchases in some areas is easy.  And I know, you're going to dismiss the article because of the source.  But you know, sometimes viewing the opposing argument is a learning experience.  

It seems to me that if a gun shop owner is seen to be selling an extraordinary number of guns to the same person(s), than it needs to be addressed...don't you think?  Those gun shop owners are part of the problem and should be sitting in a cell beside the criminals that they sell to.  Going to the section marked 'Findings', you have to wonder, were all the stores that allegedly sold hundreds of guns to criminals ever prosecuted?  Were they closed down and who took up the mantle of gun seller to criminals.  If those laws are on the books and all the authorities are able to track which shops have straw purchases going through them to the degree that apparently they are....why aren't your laws being enforced?



'...When a gun is recovered in a crime, the ATF can use the serial number on the gun to trace back to where it first left the legal market – tracing from the first sale of the firearm by an importer or manufacturer, to the wholesaler or retailer, to the first retail purchaser. In some cases, that first retail purchaser is the link between the legal and illegal markets.3Looking at trace information from 1998, the ATF found that “a small group of dealers accounts for a disproportionately large number of crime gun traces.”4 More than 85 percent of dealers in the U.S. had no crime guns traced to them at all in 1998, while about 1 percent of licensed firearm dealers accounted for 57 percent of traces that same year....'

'One former trafficker we interviewed called the store where he purchased guns the “easiest store in Georgia.” “That was the word – you want some guns, you go to [that store].”...._1. Traffickers picked “easy” stores_
Based on a review of information from more than 1,000 gun-trafficking prosecutions, we noted numerous instances where a trafficker would return again and again to the same store. For example, in a Pennsylvania case filed in 2006, a straw purchaser bought 27 guns, revisiting the same store 15 times in about nine months, in exchange for crack and/or money.15 In Georgia, a trafficking ring used straws to buy 26 guns over seven visits to the same store and then resold them on the streets of New York City......This trafficker testified that he bought at least 55 guns in five visits to this store – three during a three-week period in 1998 – using straw purchasers and fake IDs.18
 He served seven years in jail.
The store where this trafficker purchased guns had more than 600 traces

between 1996 and 2000, and it allegedly sold at least 300 guns to straw purchasers between 1998 and 2006, according to a review of prosecutions and an analysis of trace data. This number of traces was at least 170 times the 1998 national average of 0.67 traces per licensed gun dealer, per year.19.'

https://everytownresearch.org/reports/inside-straw-purchasing-criminals-get-guns-illegally/


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 4, 2016)

Debby, you're obviously more concerned about this than I am, as I said enforce the laws that are on the books and arrest the criminals.  I don't care if you agree with me or not,  I'm not so bold as to argue with people or try to change their opinions, I respect their rights to their own personal views. Nobody I've ever known has committed a crime with their guns or bought guns for a criminal.  If this is happening with frequency, then the authorities need to do their jobs.  People who are so driven to add more gun laws for the law abiding Americans to follow, can join movements like the anti-gun site you linked to, that's their business.


----------



## rt3 (Aug 4, 2016)

Everytown is Bloombergs gun control machine. Last fall the had a convention in LasVegas for media people on hoe to talk guns to the public. Naturally Nbc was there. It used to be Mayors against Guns but most of the mayors quit after discovery what he was up to. They go around to gun stores and try to bait the owners into making straw purchases. They have been blocked from doing this by a federal court just 2 weeks ago. The court held that Everytown was violating the straw purchase and could be persecuted. Oh well I guess the end justifys the means.

Gun owners buy guns from a manufacture which requires a Federal Firearms lic. Store audits by the ATF are done electronically and spikes in sales are investigated. 
Most of this article is pure crap for the following reasons.

most states have limits on both quantity and frequency as per their state law. I think the state they are talking about is 3 handguns in 10 days.
your going to believe the testimony of a crook who has just made a plea bargain. 
All
gun dealers, pawn shops, finger print the seller and go through the FBI background check., so the FBI missed it. hmm is that the same FBI that couldn't find any anything on a certain political candidate.  Nahhhhh can't be


----------



## Butterfly (Aug 4, 2016)

The idea that criminals give a red rat's you-know-what about the gun laws is indeed a fantasy.


----------



## rt3 (Aug 4, 2016)

Indeed

speaking of which 2 of Bloombergs paid bots are Gabby Gifford and her husband. Her husband failed the FBI backround and was denied the purchase in a Arizona gun store where they were baiting the dealer on straw purchases. Glad to see the FBI was on top of things, also good to know that MSM didn't report it no bias there


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 4, 2016)

Wow 3, I see you still have your attitude, bite everyone who doesn't agree with you. Just what qualifies you to be the reality police, and consider any argument but your own specious? Btw, I don't believe that everyone lives in a fantasy world, but your 

unhappiness with your life is telegraphed with every comment you post. Such a bleak perspective. Sad, really. Now, I shall place you on ignore. Have a nice day.


----------



## rt3 (Aug 4, 2016)

Thank you. But condescending doesn't look good on you. I get it from making rounds in the rehab wing. It keeps me on my toes. I have the reality because I have the keys.


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 4, 2016)

America is certainly experiencing some severe challenges at this time. My heart goes out to all the Americans trying to find a better way for the country they love. Hugs. IMHO, it is less than helpful that  some posters who have no interest in engaging in 

positive discourse, merely use the board as a venue to sow dissension. Such derisive comments only serve to encourage divisiveness, and leach the hope from those who struggle to maintain an optimistic outlook, while exploring ways to improve things inside their country. Without optimism, one is already defeated.


----------



## rt3 (Aug 4, 2016)

You should for office.  What's your point?


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 4, 2016)

rt3 said:


> No not correct. Most criminals are not rehabilitated and most are on parole. If caught with a weapon they go back or additional charges are brought. A far bigger problem is drugs. The cops know who the bad guys are and pat them down for drugs. In about 30 % of these encounters the parole is carrying. They are arrested and the gun which is stolen property is returned to its owner.
> 
> with the us having such rates of folks in prison it puts a lot of pressure on the financial resources of the tax bases.
> 
> ...


I was referring to first time offender criminals.


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 4, 2016)

nthego:


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 4, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> Yes, I agree to arrest the criminals getting their hands on weapons but it is often not until they commit a crime with the gun that they are arrested, no?



Ruthanne, I think it's a rare case that someone who has never committed any crimes before gets someone to guy a gun for them so they can commit a gun crime.

  Most of these people have been involved with physical assaults on others both with their bare hands or other weapons like knives, they have been involved in robberies, both home or car hijacking, they have been involved with petty theft, stealing handbags or wallets, domestic abuse, rapes, etc., etc. 

 Many are involved in street gangs and are guilty of all of the above.  Few people have had no rap sheets or any involvement with the law when they attain a gun to commit a crime.  And many times the police are aware of these individuals and don't react until they commit the next crime to add to their list.


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 4, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> Ruthanne, I think it's a rare case that someone who has never committed any crimes before gets someone to guy a gun for them so they can commit a gun crime.
> 
> Most of these people have been involved with physical assaults on others both with their bare hands or other weapons like knives, they have been involved in robberies, both home or car hijacking, they have been involved with petty theft, stealing handbags or wallets, domestic abuse, rapes, etc., etc.
> 
> Many are involved in street gangs and are guilty of all of the above.  Few people have had no rap sheets or any involvement with the law when they attain a gun to commit a crime.  And many times the police are aware of these individuals and don't react until they commit the next crime to add to their list.



I know of some people who were like that(involved with the law) so I know that is true.  I guess it is most likely a rare case that is a first time offender with a gun.


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 4, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> America is certainly experiencing some severe challenges at this time. My heart goes out to all the Americans trying to find a better way for the country they love. Hugs. IMHO, it is less than helpful that  some posters who have no interest in engaging in
> 
> positive discourse, merely use the board as a venue to sow dissension. Such derisive comments only serve to encourage divisiveness, and leach the hope from those who struggle to maintain an optimistic outlook, while exploring ways to improve things inside their country. Without optimism, one is already defeated.


To address your comment: Thank you for your empathy to Americans.  On the rest of your comment:  How do you know who is here that have no interest in positive conversation?  I don't see anyone here that is trying to cause divisiveness but comments like yours that are not addressed to anyone in particular can stir up some feelings in people that are not positive and not really helpful either.  Please think about that.


----------



## rt3 (Aug 5, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Wow 3, I see you still have your attitude, bite everyone who doesn't agree with you. Just what qualifies you to be the reality police, and consider any argument but your own specious? Btw, I don't believe that everyone lives in a fantasy world, but your
> 
> unhappiness with your life is telegraphed with every comment you post. Such a bleak perspective. Sad, really. Now, I shall place you on ignore. Have a nice day.



Love it, starts with an appeal to emotion and end with a reprimand. You should  mix it up more


----------



## Robusta (Aug 5, 2016)

I am a firearm owner user and aficionado, and  a 2nd amendment supporter.


That being said,I think everyone needs to watch this show.


I watch it on the Viceland network. the show is called "Black Market" and the episode is entitled, "Iron Pipeline."

An extremely well done documentary that should provide a reason to think about unfettered access to firearms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm3UEtU4Z1w


----------



## rt3 (Aug 5, 2016)

Yo man, got a lill piece of land just over hrr, only under water 2 weeks you can have it for

LMAO

if you think  uncollaborated testimony with a mask over his face is well done I have ghost you tubes you'll love

please tell me about your guns, do you have a CC, do you shoot in any events trap, skeet


----------



## Robusta (Aug 5, 2016)

rt3 said:


> Yo man, got a lill piece of land just over hrr, only under water 2 weeks you can have it for
> 
> LMAO
> 
> ...




Who the Hell are you to demand qualifications from me?  But for your edification I will partially humor you. From 1972 thru 1976 while serving in the USMC I fired expert with both the M-14,and M-16. I only managed one expert with the 1911 .45 handgun,the other three years I settled for "sharpshooter".  I also was "Familiarized" with the 12 ga. pump. and the platform mounted .50cal M-60.

I then worked as armed security for the DoD with time TDY to DoE. I held a Top Secret clearance with a Q endorsement.

I am a 14th generation life long hunter both large game small and varmint.

I am exempt from New Yorks CC laws due to my status as Peace Officer.

Ski Mask anecdotes from a self identified punk carry a hell of a lot more weight with me than a fat slob with an NRA hat bloviating on. This show plainly and seemingly accurately walks the transaction from Georgia to a garage in NJ.

Why don't you watch the whole episode rt3? afraid your preconceived notions might be jarred?


----------



## rt3 (Aug 5, 2016)

Please I'm over whelmed but I only weigh 185 . With ideal BMI.

This and several other youtubes like this are put by Boombergs Everytown. They are currently making the gun forums in the entertainment and discussion sessions. You are a shill. 

I do .8 sec double taps out of the holster and .2 splits with a custom Wilson and would be glad to show you them anytime.
But instead of us having a high noon here I will challenge to take this over to Snipershide
And let them ask you about your bs instead of trying to con these people


----------



## rt3 (Aug 5, 2016)

So you still didnt say anything about your guns. If you even have any


----------



## rt3 (Aug 5, 2016)

Humour me one more time.
what make was the 12 ga. And what type of action


----------



## rt3 (Aug 5, 2016)

Oh one more challenge - discribe the feeding mechanism on the M60


----------



## Robusta (Aug 5, 2016)

rt3 said:


> Oh one more challenge - discribe the feeding mechanism on the M60



It is none of yours or anyone else business what arms I posess'

The 12 ga was a Remington 870 pump and we also had a couple of Marlin 500 Mariners in the Arms room.



With an M 60 you flip the cover open, string your belt in with two rounds forward. Close the latch and pull the charging handle. The trigger will vary depending on the use of the weapon. The model I used was turret mounted with electric triggers integrated into the turret control.
Gun was also equipped with pull handle triggers in case of failure of the electric which was often.

I don't play cowboy with my arms as it seems you  do.  The few arms I do own are used for hunting, varmint  control , and slaughter. I own a handgun only because the District Attorney has requested all officers of the court to carry at all times.


----------



## rt3 (Aug 5, 2016)

Good first answer I like that , pro gun but no affcianado

Actually it's Mossberg mariner. And I was right about your not having any. 

Dont you just love Wikipedia

so do you want to drop in  to Snipershide.com, might run into someone you know lots of resources over there. They could check your military numbers and get in touch with some of your old friends

not cowboy ----- IPSC , 3 gun IDPA , more like Chicago blast or New York rock, although Cowboy action shooting looks fun


----------



## Warrigal (Aug 5, 2016)

What is going on here? 
I've heard of the romance of the gun but Ike, it sounds like you actually worship the gun.
Idolatry is a dead end track. And I mean dead.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 5, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> What is going on here?
> I've heard of the romance of the gun but Ike, it sounds like you actually worship the gun.
> Idolatry is a dead end track. And I mean dead.



Is there more than one Ike on this forum?  I haven't noticed any posts by IKE in this thread.


----------



## Warrigal (Aug 5, 2016)

Oops, my bad. I was referring to rt3's posts.

My apologies to Ike. Please forgive my mistake.


----------



## IKE (Aug 5, 2016)

*bottom lip quivering*  Sniff....sniff.....no harm done Warri I'll get over it eventually.


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 5, 2016)

IKE said:


> *bottom lip quivering*  Sniff....sniff.....no harm done Warri I'll get over it eventually.


:chocolate:


----------



## rt3 (Aug 5, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Oops, my bad. I was referring to rt3's posts.
> 
> My apologies to Ike. Please forgive my mistake.



its ok its just Bloombergs bunch shooting blanks


----------



## Warrigal (Aug 5, 2016)

rt3, I have no idea what you are talking about a lot of the time. This is once such occasion.


----------

