# What made Vietnam vets different



## squatting dog (Jan 17, 2022)

Vietnam veterans have a reputation for being emotionally unstable; many are addicts, and lots are homeless. Of course this reputation does not apply to all, but it is widespread.
We have fought other wars in the jungle. And we fought in Asia twice before Vietnam. And as in every war, bombs and bullets kill young men, rain and dirt make mud, and “Dear John” letters are common.
But Vietnam was different because it is the only war in the history of our country where the general population despised our soldiers in uniform.
Imagine being a young high school graduate when your country drafts you, teaches you to use a gun, then sends you to the other side of the world where you see horrors that will stay with you a lifetime. And then you survive and come home, and everyone despises you for serving your country. 

Wouldn’t you have emotional problems, too?


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## Pepper (Jan 17, 2022)




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## Don M. (Jan 17, 2022)

That Vietnam war was a mismanaged mess.  Thousands of GI's were killed or wounded, and it didn't make a nickels worth of difference.  I was in the AF, and we probably lost about 20 F105's and pilots.  I got out at the end of 1967, but when the protests and riots started a couple of years later, I was sickened to my stomach when I saw reports of those nutcases Spitting on returning GI's. 

The futility of participating in that war, then being Insulted for being in the military, certainly left some severe, and lasting, mental stress on those troops.


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## Alligatorob (Jan 17, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Vietnam was different because it is the only war in the history of our country where the general population despised our soldiers in uniform.


I think that really sums it up.  

I was lucky, turned 18 in the last year of any real draft and I had a high number so I didn't have to go.  I did have a lot of friends and relatives who did though.  I don't know how to explain the attitude towards the vets at the time, it makes no sense today.  I am not sure a majority actually despised them.  However, there was a very widespread lack of support, making it easier for the vocal minority who did despise to be heard and not effectively rebutted.  Still inexcusable.

The soldiers did what we, the majority, asked of them.  They did not choose the war, we did.  That deserves our respect and admiration, no matter the outcome or any one person's view of the war.  The soldiers risked and often lost lives for us, we need to remember that.


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## StarSong (Jan 17, 2022)

The public didn't despise the soldiers themselves, we despised an unclear, unwinnable war motivated by corrupt politicians and corporate interests that put those mostly unwilling young draftees in uniform.    

Those who mistreated soldiers were engaging in "kill the messenger" behavior which was unfair and unconscionable. Those young people in uniform were victims of a system that didn't give a damn about their lives, their physical and emotional health or their futures.


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## win231 (Jan 17, 2022)

I didn't agree with that war & I'd never participate in something I thought was wrong, (especially when it involves misery & death) but I would never disrespect anyone who did participate - whether they were forced to or they chose to.
I think everyone should do what they feel is right.  That's why I had a lot of respect for Muhammad Ali - who sacrificed quite a bit to do what he felt was right.


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## David777 (Jan 17, 2022)

Short terse story I won't expand on if baited...

I was in the USAF 67>70 though never stationed in Viet Nam just nearby.  To avoid being a grunt with an M16 in mosquito, leech, poison snake infested Mekong Delta swamps dodging bullets.  After Honorable Discharge living in the SFBA, the most heavily counterculture region in the USA, I can relate no one ever bothered to discuss why I ended up in the military much less openly despise me.  Likewise when I was stationed TDY in the Los Angeles area, never saw any civilian animosity.  Also after discharge in my own orbit, never knowingly met any veterans that were "emotionally unstable; ...addicts, and...homeless".

So what is going on here?  Well it is true there was a returning GI drug problem during the war mostly after early 1969 when such also became a national issue.  Before then the whole Hippie, anti-war, and counterculture thing was just in a few large urban areas and college campuses. National media continually pummeled them and hence so did most USA citizens.   But because young men hated the draft and there were no college deferments, that attitude exploded in 1969 across the USA and quickly was reflected in draft age young men sent to Viet Nam where opitates and cannabis were very accessible.  Of course 1969 Woodstock also shocked citizens across the USA showing a false news media bias that mostly flipped by 1970.  It was after that, when the negative GI narrative took root.  And most of that was in Middle America where news media was still battling for minds. 

So were there a lot of discharged GI's by 1970 with illegal drug problems?  Yes, but there were far more that were heavy alcohol users and far more than either without any substance abuse issues. Not surprisingly, one rarely hears about those without issues as they are not news worthy.  The real tragedy was with opioid users that had been grunts carrying M16's without any transferable civilian skills.   All had GI benefits for training or college but junkies in school rarely succeed while those without much education or skill have a high wall to climb. So years of hard times that news media made the most of.

For years there were always plenty of pro war GI's that never understood the anti-war logic. Those facing a negative Middle America vibe were likely pro war though some certainly were just picked on for wearing a uniform in civilian areas.  Before 1969, there were few issues wearing military uniforms across the USA urban streets.  The vast numbers of Americans that eventually turned against the war need to remember most were until 1969 pro war.  All this is still true today that the majority of people are just like tiny flotsam tree twigs floating down the Mississippi River, unable to have effects on society or culture, absorbing attitudes without much understanding they notice the majority has embraced.


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## squatting dog (Jan 17, 2022)

David777 said:


> So were there a lot of discharged GI's by 1970 with illegal drug problems?  Yes, but there were far more that were heavy alcohol users and far more than either without any substance abuse issues. Not surprisingly, one rarely hears about those without issues as they are not news worthy.  The real tragedy was with opioid users that had been grunts carrying M16's without any transferable civilian skills.   All had GI benefits for training or college but junkies in school rarely succeed while those without much education or skill have a high wall to climb. So years of hard times that news media made the most of.


Not trying to bait you or disagree, but...
According to a 1971 report by the Department of Defense, 51 percent of the armed forces had smoked marijuana, 
31 percent had used psychedelics, such as LSD, mescaline and psilocybin mushrooms, 
and an additional 28 percent had taken hard drugs, such as cocaine and heroin.
By contrast, about 30 percent of Vietnam vets abuse alcohol. 
Now, I think I know why pot use was so high. (no pun intended) Just check what was growing wild in the bush where we were. Anyone recognize those plants in the forefront? Hike along, grab a handful and fling it over your rucksack to dry.


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## john19485 (Jan 17, 2022)

This is what I know, I went for my first job interview , the Lady said I was a baby killer, and she said she would never hire me.
Some years later the same Lady came in for a tax audit, I was a Revenue Officer.


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## Aneeda72 (Jan 17, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Vietnam veterans have a reputation for being emotionally unstable; many are addicts, and lots are homeless. Of course this reputation does not apply to all, but it is widespread.
> We have fought other wars in the jungle. And we fought in Asia twice before Vietnam. And as in every war, bombs and bullets kill young men, rain and dirt make mud, and “Dear John” letters are common.
> But Vietnam was different because it is the only war in the history of our country where the general population despised our soldiers in uniform.
> Imagine being a young high school graduate when your country drafts you, teaches you to use a gun, then sends you to the other side of the world where you see horrors that will stay with you a lifetime. And then you survive and come home, and everyone despises you for serving your country.
> ...


They were not despised by everyone.  A lot volunteered.  But, yes, it was a nightmare of a war; as is every war.  Imagine being there, in Germany, when the troops found the first camp.  It’s a wonder anyone comes home sane.


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## Pepper (Jan 17, 2022)

In college we got most of our best dope, like opiated hash, from the returning vets who I never would have dreamed of spitting on even if they didn't bring home gifts for their friends.  Although very active in the anti draft movement we were just all kids together.


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## RFW (Jan 17, 2022)

David777 said:


> I was in the USAF 67>70 though never stationed in Viet Nam just nearby.  To avoid being a grunt with an M16 in mosquito, leech, poison snake infested Mekong Delta swamps dodging bullets.


I have nothing to add to the discussion but to say I developed a lifelong fear of snakes due to this. I come back home. I see a garter snake. I shoot,


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## squatting dog (Jan 17, 2022)

RFW said:


> I have nothing to add to the discussion but to say I developed a lifelong fear of snakes due to this. I come back home. I see a garter snake. I shoot,


Umm hmm.


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## Alligatorob (Jan 17, 2022)

win231 said:


> I didn't agree with that war & I'd never participate in something I thought was wrong


I hate to admit that when I was young I did support the war, only changing my mind as things were clearly going downhill.  Like a lot of the US public.  

At one point I actually considered volunteering to go, but never did it...

Hopefully I am now older and wiser.  Pretty sure I am older anyway.


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## old medic (Jan 17, 2022)

I was just a kid, the war was current events and news.... My Uncle was over there,  and listening to other family members talking about their war experiences... including a Great Grandfather in WWI. I still choke back tears with the memories of going to pick up my uncle when he got home.. A woman started spitting on him in the airport... My grandfather liked to have lost his mind... I was a very confused 10 YO... 
I have nothing for respect for anyone that has served..


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## Sassycakes (Jan 17, 2022)

My Husband got drafted a few months before our marriage. His friend told him he would be better off joining the Navy and that's what he did. I worried every day about him..2 Boys I went to school with were killed in Viet Nam. My heart breaks for the veterans and the lack of respect they got when they came home. I respect and honor all those that served during any war.


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## john19485 (Jan 17, 2022)

A video of Me being honored ,


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## fuzzybuddy (Jan 18, 2022)

My personal opinion is that we are much more psychologically fragile than we think. Maybe Viet Nam Vets get tagged with the label you mention is because that's when we learned about PTSD, as a genuine illness. "Shellshocked" was the WWII version. After the Civil War, the "old soldier's disease" was rampant. 
Civil War Vets and Mental Illness: The Tragedy After the War. – Our Great American Heritage


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## Geezer Garage (Jan 18, 2022)

I was there, and think you summed it up well. Always check your boots before you put them on, an carry extra dry socks, something you learned pretty quickly. There is a reason young people fight wars, by the time you figure it out, and for most it didn't take long, it was too late. If it was 40 and over for military service, I think there would be a lot less of them. Mike

QUOTE: The public didn't despise the soldiers themselves, we despised an unclear, unwinnable war motivated by corrupt politicians and corporate interests that put those mostly unwilling young draftees in uniform.    

Those who mistreated soldiers were engaging in "kill the messenger" behavior which was unfair and unconscionable. Those young people in uniform were victims of a system that didn't give a damn about their lives, their physical and emotional health or their futures.




Qu


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## win231 (Jan 18, 2022)

RFW said:


> I have nothing to add to the discussion but to say I developed a lifelong fear of snakes due to this. I come back home. I see a garter snake. I shoot,


Does that mean petting this one would be out of the question?


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## RFW (Jan 18, 2022)

win231 said:


> Does that mean petting this one would be out of the question?


Don't mind me while I go grab a M60.


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## PamfromTx (Jan 18, 2022)

​


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## dseag2 (Jan 18, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Vietnam veterans have a reputation for being emotionally unstable; many are addicts, and lots are homeless. Of course this reputation does not apply to all, but it is widespread.
> We have fought other wars in the jungle. And we fought in Asia twice before Vietnam. And as in every war, bombs and bullets kill young men, rain and dirt make mud, and “Dear John” letters are common.
> But Vietnam was different because it is the only war in the history of our country where the general population despised our soldiers in uniform.
> Imagine being a young high school graduate when your country drafts you, teaches you to use a gun, then sends you to the other side of the world where you see horrors that will stay with you a lifetime. And then you survive and come home, and everyone despises you for serving your country.
> ...


Thank you for sharing this so those of us who weren't involved in the Vietnam war would have a better understanding.  

Not sure if you've ever heard this, but it is compelling.


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## rgp (Jan 24, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> They were not despised by everyone.  A lot volunteered.  But, yes, it was a nightmare of a war; as is every war.  Imagine being there, in Germany, when the troops found the first camp.  It’s a wonder anyone comes home sane.




  "found the first camp" ? 

 Are you speaking of concentration camps ?

 My dad was part of the liberation of Dachau ... [45th Infantry Thunderbirds] .... My old man was a pretty hard boiled guy but ..... He said it was the most horrible thing he had ever seen. He would talk about it [a bit] & yet he barely spoke of it .....Hard to explain. I have some of his photos here .......... I've only looked at them a time or two.


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## bingo (Jan 24, 2022)

and drugs came on the scene  in a big way...
anti war protestors allowed  to spit on and shout
at soldier's returning  home....
our government  didn't  stop the drugs nor the anarchists


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## Lawrence (Jan 24, 2022)

I was in the Vietnam war also and have deleted what I have said. I apologize for saying these things on this forum.


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## Nathan (Jan 24, 2022)

Geezer Garage said:


> I was there, and think you summed it up well. Always check your boots before you put them on, an carry extra dry socks, something you learned pretty quickly. There is a reason young people fight wars, by the time you figure it out, and for most it didn't take long, it was too late. If it was 40 and over for military service, I think there would be a lot less of them. Mike
> 
> QUOTE: The public didn't despise the soldiers themselves, we despised an unclear, unwinnable war motivated by corrupt politicians and corporate interests that put those mostly unwilling young draftees in uniform.
> 
> Those who mistreated soldiers were engaging in "kill the messenger" behavior which was unfair and unconscionable. Those young people in uniform were victims of a system that didn't give a damn about their lives, their physical and emotional health or their futures


+1, QFT.


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## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> My personal opinion is that we are much more psychologically fragile than we think. Maybe Viet Nam Vets get tagged with the label you mention is because that's when we learned about PTSD, as a genuine illness. "Shellshocked" was the WWII version. After the Civil War, the "old soldier's disease" was rampant.
> Civil War Vets and Mental Illness: The Tragedy After the War. – Our Great American Heritage


Good post, and at some level I believe  you are right, all wars create a lot of PTSD or whatever you call it.  But all wars are also different and so is the way we have (or have not) dealt with PTSD.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 24, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Vietnam veterans have a reputation for being emotionally unstable; many are addicts, and lots are homeless. Of course this reputation does not apply to all, but it is widespread.
> We have fought other wars in the jungle. And we fought in Asia twice before Vietnam. And as in every war, bombs and bullets kill young men, rain and dirt make mud, and “Dear John” letters are common.
> But Vietnam was different because it is the only war in the history of our country where the general population despised our soldiers in uniform.
> Imagine being a young high school graduate when your country drafts you, teaches you to use a gun, then sends you to the other side of the world where you see horrors that will stay with you a lifetime. And then you survive and come home, and everyone despises you for serving your country.
> ...


You just described the plight of the Black soldier in WWII and before. I never understood why the Vietnam vets were treated so badly and I hate that they were seen as outcasts instead of heroes. To me it's a sad state of affairs and a blemish on our so called society. I have never been in favor of drafting boys so young, exposing them to the horrors of war then expecting them to be normal if they even survive it. Damned shame! @Pecos


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 24, 2022)

This song as always touched my heart. It's a sad, haunting song, a mother's song about what the Vietnam war did to her son. @Pecos @Paco Dennis @Pinky


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## oldiebutgoody (Jan 26, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> everyone despises you for serving your country




That's an exaggeration.  On the contrary I found that people were highly sympathetic to returning veterans.  The sad part was all too often they faced unemployment for prolonged periods of time. Further, there was the problem of black & brown soldiers fighting to preserve or promote freedom and democracy abroad but still being second class citizens at home. Those black and brown soldiers rightfully demanded the right to live in suburban homes and get access to the same jobs their white counterparts had.  All too often these things were denied. I blame capitalists and realtors for that.  But I do not say that "everyone" was responsible for any or all  of that.  In the ghetto we remained highly sympathetic to those returning vets and always treated them with the respect they deserved.


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## oldiebutgoody (Jan 26, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> The soldiers risked and often lost lives for us, we need to remember that.




Read the *Pentagon Papers* which reveal that the premise behind the war was a sham.  They died so that rich people could profit from the war just like they did in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Not my opinion but FACT.  Read the book if you think I'm making that up.  Read the *Downing Street Memo* if you still believe there were WMD in Iraq. It wasn't the people spitting on American soldiers.  It was the government and greedy capitalists  who did so.


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## oldiebutgoody (Jan 26, 2022)

*Pentagon Papers -   https://tinyurl.com/32e5cpux*









"The body of President Diệm after he was assassinated in the 1963 South Vietnamese coup, which was backed by the United States government"



That's right - your own government started the war and killed every American soldier.  Therefore, PLEASE STOP SAYING IT WAS THE PUBLIC WHO SPAT ON OUR SOLDIERS WHEN IT WAS YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT THAT DID SO. Sorry for the caps but it must be said. 


Google for more data on the* Downing Street Memo*.


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## ElCastor (Jan 31, 2022)

I'm a Vietnam vet, but never saw the country -- possibly once, but it may have been nothing more than a cloud on the horizon. Enlisted just before it began and spent much of the next three years in the engine rooms of an aircraft carrier steaming around the South China Sea -- after that, 2 years shore duty in Spain. When I returned to the States and discovered the truth about that war I resigned my Navy Reserve commission, and never looked back.


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## DGM (Feb 2, 2022)

I was 16 when the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" took place.  I watched the news with my mother and asked, "do they REALLY expect us to believe this BS?".  I was lucky.  I was going to get drafted so I enlisted at the ripe old age of 24 in 1972.  I served with a number of Vietnam vets who made me even more aware of how fortunate I was to have missed that debacle.


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## JaniceM (Feb 14, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Vietnam veterans have a reputation for being emotionally unstable; many are addicts, and lots are homeless. Of course this reputation does not apply to all, but it is widespread.
> We have fought other wars in the jungle. And we fought in Asia twice before Vietnam. And as in every war, bombs and bullets kill young men, rain and dirt make mud, and “Dear John” letters are common.
> But Vietnam was different because it is the only war in the history of our country where the general population despised our soldiers in uniform.
> Imagine being a young high school graduate when your country drafts you, teaches you to use a gun, then sends you to the other side of the world where you see horrors that will stay with you a lifetime. And then you survive and come home, and everyone despises you for serving your country.
> ...


From what my brother said, another important difference was often not knowing who "the enemy" was-  anybody from a tiny child to an elderly-old person could be carrying explosives, etc.  

But re: what you said about "the general population," the vets I knew in the area I lived in at the time didn't have those experiences.  There wasn't a lot of fanfare, but it was pride for them.  

When my brother returned stateside, he decided to attend a basketball game at his old high school.  The principal noticed him, and when the place was packed he called everybody to attention.  He said one of their graduates had just returned home from serving in Vietnam.. and everybody stood up and applauded.


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## Alligatorob (Feb 14, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> When my brother returned stateside, he decided to attend a basketball game at his old high school. The principal noticed him, and when the place was packed he called everybody to attention. He said one of their graduates had just returned home from serving in Vietnam.. and everybody stood up and applauded.


That is a great story, and I am sure some things like this did happen.  They deserve attention.


oldiebutgoody said:


> They died so that rich people could profit from the war just like they did in Afghanistan and Iraq.


We the American public supported these wars, in the beginning anyway.  We may have been mislead or duped into it, but we did support things.  And the soldiers went for us, few if any knew of the corruption behind things at the time.  We need to honor what they did for us.


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## RFW (Feb 14, 2022)

The impression I got was, they're the enemy, we are the force of good. Simple as that. Coming off the heels of WWII, it reenforced that notion.
We all know now how that turned out.


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## oldiebutgoody (Feb 14, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> We the American public supported these wars, in the beginning anyway. We may have been mislead or duped into it, but we did support things. And the soldiers went for us, few if any knew of the corruption behind things at the time. We need to honor what they did for us.




The best way to do so is to bring about  retributive justice. Johnson and Bush deserve(d) Nuremberg tribunals for their crimes against the American people and the victimized countries they invaded. Because nobody has lifted a finger to do so, it was repeated in the Middle East and you can bet it will happen again. Refusing to do so dishonors what the veterans did because they died in vain so that wealthy elites could profit and continue to profit.


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## Pepper (Feb 14, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> That is a great story, and I am sure some things like this did happen.  They deserve attention.
> 
> We the American public supported these wars, in the beginning anyway.  We may have been mislead or duped into it, but we did support things.  And the soldiers went for us, few if any knew of the corruption behind things at the time.  We need to honor what they did for us.


I honored them by working in the anti-draft movement.  I did the best I could to support the young men my age by doing so.


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## oldiebutgoody (Feb 14, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I honored them by working in the anti-draft movement.  I did the best I could to support the young men my age by doing so.




I did precisely the same.  That is the most patriotic thing anyone can do.


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## DGM (Feb 15, 2022)

Remember what Ike said upon leaving office:  "Beware of the Military- Industrial Complex"


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## DGM (Feb 16, 2022)

Warning:  "F" bomb is used
Country Joe & the Fish -- Vietnam song - YouTube


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## oldiebutgoody (Feb 16, 2022)

DGM said:


> Warning:  "F" bomb is used
> Country Joe & the Fish -- Vietnam song - YouTube




Country Joe is alive and well at age 80. Served three years in the military so that no one can accuse him of being anti-American in any way.


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## Mr. Ed (Feb 16, 2022)

I didn't understand the war except from the music that was produced. I still don't agree with war but what do I know? Seldom do those who start wars are the true victims of war.


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