# Imponderable Irreverence Troubles Me



## imp (Sep 23, 2015)

Reverent means respectful, related to any circumstance, person, religious belief, etc. Irreverence, then, is lack of respect. I use it here concerning religious belief. Got acquainted with a really nice guy on a car forum. He lives in Northern Utah, and after exchanging emails several times, I realized what a decent, respectworthy person he is. He did not express religious preference until I asked. He is a Mormon. 

He then revealed his suspicion that I might be essentially irreligious. I am. But not an atheist, or even agnostic, I would _never _stoop to telling anyone their personal belief was not acceptable to me. No matter what they believe.

What I am asking is, does a two-way street exist on this issue? Will I now, given my "revelation", lose my "friends"? I would hope not. Should one care to entertain friendship with another unaccepting of one, regardless of credo or belief?

Appreciate any thoughts along these lines. imp


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## AprilT (Sep 23, 2015)

I have been unfriended, in real life, not talking Facebook, by several religious people or at times treated differently, their loss, not mine for sure, as far as I'm concerned.  Can't say it didn't bother me in some way, but, it is what it is.  There are times and places I keep my views to myself to keep the peace being black and not religious well, that is about the worse thing one can be at most gatherings; I would rather just say all the praise the lords and act like I'm feeling the holy ghost than admit otherwise at any of my families and most friends get togethers these days.  My close friends know my views and we don't go into it we just let each other be on the matter.  When asked, I tell the truth about my views, I've never been one to back down or shy away from expressing how I feel, but, I'm getting more apprehensive in some circles to say anything these days fear some might get a fire going with the way they react out when you say you don't belong to a congregation and no thank you kindly for inviting me to join yours, but I'll pass.


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## Lon (Sep 23, 2015)

I am a Secular Humanist and never attempt to convert anyone to my way of thinking and have friends that accept me without trying to convert me to their belief. Tolerance is the name of the game.


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## John C (Sep 23, 2015)

Being a thoughtful and honest person will certainly not cost you any friends.


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## fureverywhere (Sep 23, 2015)

It depends on the individual you're dealing with. Some people can't accept another faith or lack thereof and some can. If you're dealing with someone who's objective is to convert you well then probably it's not going to go well. I lean towards Judaism, my hubby is lapsed Catholic, one son practicing Buddhist and one Agnostic. We're covered on all fronts. 

That being said I really admire people who are into their faith to make themselves happy. We have a bunch of Christian women at work who do "Praise the Lord's" and sing gospel in the bathroom. More power to them! And these folks simply beaming at seeing the pope, it's beautiful, I envy them. It's what works for the individual and not forcing it on others...yup that's tolerance.


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## AprilT (Sep 23, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> It depends on the individual you're dealing with. Some people can't accept another faith or lack thereof and some can. If you're dealing with someone who's objective is to convert you well then probably it's not going to go well. I lean towards Judaism, my hubby is lapsed Catholic, one son practicing Buddhist and one Agnostic. We're covered on all fronts.
> 
> That being said I really admire people who are into their faith to make themselves happy. We have a bunch of Christian women at work who do "Praise the Lord's" and sing gospel in the bathroom. More power to them! And these folks simply beaming at seeing the pope, it's beautiful, I envy them. It's what works for the individual and not forcing it on others...yup that's tolerance.



I'm not religious and even I enjoyed viewing parts of this particular popes introduction ceremonies, I admire the man, seems like a real stand up person.  I'm always interested in hearing what people with good intentions have to say especially when they'remore inclusive as he appears to be.  I show respect when I'm in the house of others, so if I am in a religious setting, I do honor the rules of their house without dishonoring my own beliefs.


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## Warrigal (Sep 23, 2015)

imp said:


> Reverent means respectful, related to any circumstance, person, religious belief, etc. Irreverence, then, is lack of respect. I use it here concerning religious belief. Got acquainted with a really nice guy on a car forum. He lives in Northern Utah, and after exchanging emails several times, I realized what a decent, respectworthy person he is. He did not express religious preference until I asked. He is a Mormon.
> 
> What prompted you to ask?
> 
> ...



I've been an atheist and am now a Christian, although from a nonconformist tradition. I'm the same person I have always been but now I standing on a different mountain looking at a different horizon. I do have some new friends but I lost more friends when I gave up the grog than I have ever lost from attending church.


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## imp (Sep 23, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I've been an atheist and am now a Christian, although from a nonconformist tradition. I'm the same person I have always been but now I standing on a different mountain looking at a different horizon. I do have some new friends but I lost more friends when I gave up the grog than I have ever lost from attending church.



Most well-stated, Ma'am! Now, I reveal, my OP was actually aimed at ferreting you out! Nasty Imp! Why? Because I felt it out of context to besmirch some others who, whether deservedly or not, offend others' personal beliefs or policies. 

Now, here, I risk all position with you, I am afraid. It is not anyone's place, IMO, to ridicule any others' efforts to:  better themselves, better their financial position, impress via advertising, or based on any other public performance, because these folks utilize means which offend one's religious convictions.

I have regarded you, as an individual, from our first meeting, as a unique and most understanding, very educated and understanding person. I chose to avoid confrontation when the issue of some fool inscribing his firearms arose. 

I disagreed with your position, then, but think I can appreciate overall, your inner feelings. I should likely not have posted this particular personal stand at all. Ridiculous repercussions may result, but, if I am any judge of "internet character" at all, those will not be penned by you. I believe in you, Ma'am.     imp


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## imp (Sep 23, 2015)

Dame: I just now, after posting above, saw your previous quote, and post. I had not realized that you had addressed my points individually. 

I think that changes nothing. If I am wrong, help me "straighten out".

My farthest intent is to become embroiled in a "pissing-match", in which the only net result is overall hard-feelings.   imp


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## Warrigal (Sep 23, 2015)

imp said:


> Dame: I just now, after posting above, saw your previous quote, and post. I had not realized that you had addressed my points individually.
> 
> I think that changes nothing. If I am wrong, help me "straighten out".
> 
> My farthest intent is to become embroiled in a "pissing-match", in which the only net result is overall hard-feelings.   imp



Not sure where you are going. I've expressed my thoughts and you have expressed yours. Are you looking for validation? That is not necessary because people having different feelings, opinions and perspective is not only OK, it is, as Shakespeare would say, devoutly to be wished. Diversity is what makes the world interesting.


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## Ken N Tx (Sep 24, 2015)

Lon said:


> I am a Secular Humanist and never attempt to convert anyone to my way of thinking and have friends that accept me without trying to convert me to their belief. Tolerance is the name of the game.





John C said:


> Being a thoughtful and honest person will certainly not cost you any friends.





AprilT said:


> I'm not religious and even I enjoyed viewing parts of this particular popes introduction ceremonies, I admire the man, seems like a real stand up person.  I'm always interested in hearing what people with good intentions have to say especially when they'remore inclusive as he appears to be.  I show respect when I'm in the house of others, so if I am in a religious setting, I do honor the rules of their house without dishonoring my own beliefs.



..I do not respond well to friends/people that try an push their beliefs upon me..What they believe is theirs and what I believe is mine..


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## imp (Sep 24, 2015)

*I regret having started this thread, and apologize to any I have offended.   imp*


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## AZ Jim (Sep 24, 2015)

Too late!  I am totally pissed.  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## Shalimar (Sep 24, 2015)

Have a cocktail Jim, hey have two!


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## AZ Jim (Sep 24, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Have a cocktail Jim, hey have two!



More????????  Do I have too???????


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## Cookie (Sep 24, 2015)

Being tolerant of religious beliefs is one thing, and I am, and never express criticism.  BUT, if someone is laying a trip on me and suggesting/saying that their religion/belief is superior to what I believe, I might be tempted to remark on it.


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## Warrigal (Sep 24, 2015)

:lol: "I might be tempted to remark on it."

Something tells me that this is not a hypothetical statement.


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## Shalimar (Sep 24, 2015)

Me too Cookie. I dislike proslytisers big time. Heavy duty come to Jesus neighbours down the hall harassed me for four years before giving up, and I own my condo. Sigh.


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## tnthomas (Sep 24, 2015)

imp said:


> *I regret having started this thread, and apologize to any I have offended.   imp*



Imp, what are you talking about?   I thought that this thread went along pretty smoothly.   :shrug:


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## Warrigal (Sep 24, 2015)

^^^ Me too Tom.


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## imp (Sep 24, 2015)

Maybe because you are both expecting discord, going in. I was attempting to make a point tactfully, painlessly, if you will. I sense that process "back-fired". One near the "fringe" of the "fold" can almost feel changes in attitude, as they progress. That "one" is me. Poke, provoke, sometimes comes back to sting the behind. I wondered about that sensation for a day or two now, then the realization formed like the reverse of a dissipating vapor: it materialized from almost nothing. Folks were getting pissed-off at me, blunt before tact. PMs ceased, no email, many went on vacation. 

I knew my chore, the quest, was not to be an easy one. 

*"Imp, what are you talking about?   I thought that this thread went along pretty smoothly."

* Smoothly, to me, does not involve taking "pot-shots". I dare not say more here. Tn, just wait until you see my next "over-reach"! 

Still, though, appreciate that some understand.   imp


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2015)

Take your meds, imp. You seem to be a bit off planet with your observations.
Why would I be expecting discord going in? What was your discord provoking revelation?

I saw none. 

All you said was that you are a bit irreligious. 
That doesn't make you Robinson Crusoe.

Are you suggesting that I was taking pot shots at you?
I was not. I was engaging in dialogue.


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## tnthomas (Sep 25, 2015)

imp said:


> Maybe because you are both expecting discord, going in. I was attempting to make a point tactfully, painlessly, if you will. I sense that process "back-fired". One near the "fringe" of the "fold" can almost feel changes in attitude, as they progress. That "one" is me. Poke, provoke, sometimes comes back to sting the behind. I wondered about that sensation for a day or two now, then the realization formed like the reverse of a dissipating vapor: it materialized from almost nothing. Folks were getting pissed-off at me, blunt before tact. PMs ceased, no email, many went on vacation.
> 
> I knew my chore, the quest, was not to be an easy one.
> 
> ...



Well, I'm puzzled but at least you seem to know what's going on with you.  g'day.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Too late!  I am totally pissed.  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



Me too jim!!    I have never been so pissed as I am now.... By the way... what are we talking about??


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## imp (Sep 25, 2015)

*"By the way... what are we talking about??"

*Why.....ME, of course. Making a fool of myself!   

imp


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2015)

Think nothing of it Imp. We are all sailing aboard a ship of fools.


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## imp (Sep 25, 2015)

Thank you, DM! Oops,.....the username........new, ........it's good! Sounds more intimidating! Warring-Gal. 

I'm sloshing, now, you know. You made me feel better, with your post above, but I suppose I'll get over that!     imp


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2015)

About my user name - now that our former ridiculous prime minister has been deposed in a palace coup, I am distancing myself by dropping the pretentious honorific. 
The knights and dames of the realm are being rounded up and banished. I've gone into hiding in my dingo lair.


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## imp (Sep 25, 2015)

And I have revealed the unlimited stupidity of my remarks, by addressing you as "DM", instead of DW.  Do you suppose I did that on purpose? Just to test the "troublemakers"? 

Dingo lair.  Dog house?? C'mon, we won't believe that for long!  imp


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## 911 (Sep 26, 2015)

Huh? I must be dumb as dirt. I don't get any of this thread.


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## RadishRose (Sep 26, 2015)

Me either, 911. Meet ya by the broom.


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## Shalimar (Sep 26, 2015)

911, I think it is mostly about how people misunderstand what others post. It is easy to read all sorts of meanings into what one reads.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> 911, I think it is mostly about how people misunderstand what others post. It is easy to read all sorts of meanings into what one reads.



Oy, some of the meanings I've read-in here ...


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## Shalimar (Sep 26, 2015)

I hear you Philly. It must be hard being a sardine...


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## SifuPhil (Sep 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I hear you Philly. It must be hard being a sardine...



It isn't so bad, except during rush hour - we're packed in like .... oh, never mind ...


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## tnthomas (Sep 26, 2015)

911 said:


> Huh? I must be dumb as dirt. I don't get any of this thread.



Don't feel bad, you're not alone.    Actually there are several threads lately where yuh_ just have to go-with-the-flow...._.

:shrug:


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## imp (Sep 26, 2015)

Now, now, guys, let's not muddy-up the waters!    imp


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## Shalimar (Sep 26, 2015)

Muddy Waters? Awesome musician.


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## imp (Sep 26, 2015)

My every remark inspires to either bring about rebuke, or response beyond my ability of recognition, as though I am of a foreign language spoken! The unenviable position of an  imp or genie!   I love having been freed of my confining bottle!     imp


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## RadishRose (Sep 27, 2015)

Oh good grief, you are a grown man, not an "Imp".
 You don't live in a bottle.
Perhaps if you related as an adult you would not feel so hurt by the responses you get.


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## Victor (Sep 27, 2015)

Have the courage of your convictions and state your beliefs, softly and nicely,
unless you think it will start an argument or nastiness you do not want.

You may use the word *Athnostic *if you prefer.


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## Falcon (Sep 27, 2015)

RadishRose said:


> Oh good grief, you are a grown man, not an "Imp".
> You don't live in a bottle.
> Perhaps if you related as an adult you would not feel so hurt by the responses you get.



 RadRose.   Thank you for being the only honest one here by explaining what's going on in this thread.


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## tnthomas (Sep 27, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Muddy Waters? Awesome musician.


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## imp (Sep 27, 2015)

RadishRose said:


> Oh good grief, you are a grown man, not an "Imp".
> You don't live in a bottle.
> Perhaps if you related as an adult you would not feel so hurt by the responses you get.



I provoke. I receive. Pretense is part of the game! How do you know what I live in?    imp


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## SifuPhil (Sep 27, 2015)

Victor said:


> Have the courage of your convictions and state your beliefs, softly and nicely,
> unless you think it will start an argument or nastiness you do not want.
> 
> You may use the word *Athnostic *if you prefer.



Wow - Victor, as a writer I have to admit that you've stumped me with this word.

Is it an undecided agnostic? A Gnostic with asthma?


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## imp (Sep 27, 2015)

Falcon said:


> RadRose.   Thank you for being the only honest one here by explaining what's going on in this thread.



Let a lady do the "dirty work, then swoop out of the sky for "messy seconds"?

In the actual world of "vulturism", it works the other way 'round.

What a dull, uninteresting thing forums would be if everyone were constantly "dead serious", don't'cha think?   imp


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## SifuPhil (Sep 27, 2015)

imp said:


> ... What a dull, uninteresting thing forums would be if everyone were constantly "dead serious", don't'cha think?   imp



Be careful, Imp - that way lies madness.

I should know ... :distress:


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## imp (Sep 27, 2015)

Well, then, sorry Boss, it needed said.   imp


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## SifuPhil (Sep 27, 2015)

imp said:


> Well, then, sorry Boss, it needed said.   imp



Did it?

I've accomplished some great things with silence.




... at least, that's what the Administrator on the last forum said ... :jaded:

... and my last wife ...

... and the members of that ToastMasters group ...


*sigh*


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## Shalimar (Sep 27, 2015)

Philly, I believe athnostics subscribe to a hybrid philosophy around agnosticism and atheism.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 27, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Philly, I believe athnostics subscribe to a hybrid philosophy around agnosticism and atheism.



Wow, thanks, Shal - I hadn't thought of that. :encouragement:

Now I'm trying to figure out how that would work in real life ... "NO!" "I don't know ..." NO!" "I don't know ..."


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## Shalimar (Sep 27, 2015)

Thomas, thanks so much for the Muddy Waters link. It rocks!


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## Shalimar (Sep 27, 2015)

Philly, the words "I don't know" are a prerequisite to enlightenment, dontcha know?


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## Linda (Sep 28, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> Imp, what are you talking about?   I thought that this thread went along pretty smoothly.   :shrug:



I was thinking the same thing.  It's going smoothly and it's interesting. And I don't understand most of it but that's ok, I'm learning I guess.


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## boozercruiser (Sep 28, 2015)

imp said:


> *I regret having started this thread, and apologize to any I have offended.   imp*




Please don't regret starting this thread Imp, as I for one have been very interested in peoples opinion in respect of this.

The thing is Imp, nowadays most people seem to be easily offended by something or other.
I mean, perhaps I could tell you a really naughty joke and you would laugh, but someone else would think I was a rude low life.

And of course trying to discuss to navigate the emotive issues of Religion and Politics is like trying to navigate a minefield.

Me? 
If I had my way, I would ban the both of them as they are both nothing but Trouble in anyones language.
No offence meant of course!


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## imp (Sep 28, 2015)

*"Please don't regret starting this thread Imp"

*Well! If I may indulge a bit of nonsense: your username belies existence of a profound level of human understanding. The Humanities were, though, my weakest academic achievement, thus any conclusions I may draw regarding philosophical or psychological stances are based strictly upon pragmatic consideration.

In simpler terms, your post I view as a shining light!   imp


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## AZ Jim (Sep 28, 2015)

> Me?
> If I had my way, I would ban the both of them as they are both nothing but Trouble in anyones language.
> No offence meant of course!



No offense taken of course.  We have had many discussions long before your arrival and it was  decided to put "Hot issues" in it's own forum making it easy for those so disposed to navigate around.  The key here is you don't "have it your way" but the forums provide refuge should you seek it by simply avoiding those posts.  It's mostly we here in the USA that post politics and religion and we enjoy airing our views.  Enjoy the rest of the forums.


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## boozercruiser (Sep 28, 2015)

imp said:


> *"Please don't regret starting this thread Imp"
> 
> *Well! If I may indulge a bit of nonsense: your username belies existence of a profound level of human understanding. The Humanities were, though, my weakest academic achievement, thus any conclusions I may draw regarding philosophical or psychological stances are based strictly upon pragmatic consideration.
> 
> In simpler terms, your post I view as a shining light!   imp



Thank you imp.
And I found your above post a shining light for me also.






Best regards

Kenny


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## imp (Sep 28, 2015)

*"but the forums provide refuse"  *(said AZJim)

Ha! Occasionally, a slipped key provides utter humor through enigma! "Refuge" of course, was intended?  

imp


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## AZ Jim (Sep 28, 2015)

Yes, you are right.  I occasionally make mistakes, in fact sometimes very humorous ones.  When I see others do that here I usually slip them a PM so they can edit it.  Anyhow, "to err is human, to forgive, divine".


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## Shalimar (Sep 28, 2015)

Hmm. Perhaps the forum provides a safe medium for posters to spew santised refuse from time to time? Venting can be good therapy. Lol.


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## Cookie (Sep 28, 2015)

Most of the stuff on this forum is just chatting and opinions, we don't have to be absolutely correct or perfect.  Agree, some venting can be cathartic, as long as its in good faith, and not vitriolic. Its good to express yourself.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 28, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Its good to express yourself.



I'm glad you said that, Cookie!


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## Shalimar (Sep 28, 2015)

Yeah, do the funky chicken!


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## RadishRose (Sep 28, 2015)

Oh. My. God!!!!!!


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## SifuPhil (Sep 28, 2015)

Just expressing myself ...


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## boozercruiser (Sep 28, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Most of the stuff on this forum is just chatting and opinions, we don't have to be absolutely correct or perfect.  Agree, some venting can be cathartic, as long as its in good faith, and not vitriolic. Its good to express yourself.



Hear Hear Hear !


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## Cookie (Sep 28, 2015)

Jim you look concerned, is it the hot oven?  Going to be a crispy critter?


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## tnthomas (Sep 28, 2015)

Mental health is a flexible thing, and can be adhered to, or ignored in the short term [usually]without long-term consequences.


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## Shalimar (Sep 28, 2015)

Yep. Mental health is a thing of thirds. Regardless of treatment or lack thereof, approx, 1/3 will get better, 1/3 will worsen, and 1/3 will remain the same. Food for thought. What is healthy anyway? The capacity to function? Unless one is obviously
psychotic, diagnosis says as much about the person making it as the client.


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## imp (Sep 28, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Yep. Mental health is a thing of thirds. Regardless of treatment or lack thereof, approx, 1/3 will get better, 1/3 will worsen, and 1/3 will remain the same. Food for thought. What is healthy anyway? The capacity to function? Unless one is obviously
> psychotic, diagnosis says as much about the person making it as the client.



Deep stuff, Shal! It'll be a blankin' Christmas Tree before I understand that!  Some cases of "I need to Know", become pale exposed to the light.    imp


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## Shalimar (Sep 28, 2015)

I dunno about deep, Imp. However, I fervently believe many of my colleagues in the mental health profession would benefit deeply from regular cerebral enemas. Lolololol.


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## Underock1 (Sep 28, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I dunno about deep, Imp. However, I fervently believe many of my colleagues in the mental health profession would benefit deeply from regular cerebral enemas. Lolololol.



Just amusing myself by picturing a group of shrinks getting together for dinner and all being afraid to say anything for fear of being analyzed by everyone else.


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## Shalimar (Sep 28, 2015)

Underock, it happens more often than you think. Even more fun when you mix therapists with cognitive shrinks aka rat psychologists/psychiatrists. Add booze and stir! I must admit, my irreverence has provoked a teeny bit of conflict on occasion. One highlight was when the head shrink of Vancouver General Hospital called me a polysyllabic epithet, and poured champagne over my head. Good vintage too! I dined out on that for months. Lol.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 29, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Underock, it happens more often than you think. Even more fun when you mix therapists with cognitive shrinks aka rat psychologists/psychiatrists. Add booze and stir! I must admit, my irreverence has provoked a teeny bit of conflict on occasion. One highlight was when the head shrink of Vancouver General Hospital called me a polysyllabic epithet, and poured champagne over my head. Good vintage too! I dined out on that for months. Lol.



I wonder if the "Champagne Treatment" also follows the Law of Thirds ...


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## Shalimar (Sep 29, 2015)

Nope, Philly, champagne always improves things. Lol.


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## boozercruiser (Sep 29, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> Just amusing myself by picturing a group of shrinks getting together for dinner and all being afraid to say anything for fear of being analyzed by everyone else.



As far as I can see Underdock, we are doing that helpful shrinking here, right now.
And on my observation, you folks are doing a better job of it than the certified shrinks!


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## SifuPhil (Sep 29, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Nope, Philly, champagne always improves things. Lol.



I thought so.


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## Shalimar (Sep 29, 2015)

Boozer, open communication can put therapisseds  like me out of business. That would be grand!


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## Butterfly (Oct 5, 2015)

I must confess I do not understand this thread at all.


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## Shalimar (Oct 5, 2015)

Butterfly, it is all about playful silliness. As my English friend calls it, "playing silly buggers." lol.


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## Underock1 (Oct 5, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> I must confess I do not understand this thread at all.



Well that's a _good _sign, Butterfly. Be happy about that. We're all nuts! :turnaround::wiggle::zombie::hide::banana::banghead:


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## Linda (Oct 5, 2015)

I'd like to know where you guys get those cute little couches and dancing bananas and I especially like that little person that has a club and was hitting another little being over the head with it!   Probably shouldn't tell me as I'm one who would overuse them I'm sure.


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## Underock1 (Oct 6, 2015)

Linda said:


> I'd like to know where you guys get those cute little couches and dancing bananas and I especially like that little person that has a club and was hitting another little being over the head with it!   Probably shouldn't tell me as I'm one who would overuse them I'm sure.



I couldn't find them either and then someone made the mistake of telling me. So passing it on; click the yellow icon button next to the big "A" on the reply screen. A sheet of small ugly icons comes up. Scroll to the bottom of that and hit "More".
Your on your way. Have fun, Linda!


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## Linda (Oct 9, 2015)

Thanks Underrock1


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