# What do you think about the NRA?



## fuzzybuddy (Apr 16, 2018)

I feel the NRA opposes any gun regulation as a "slippery slope", which will lead to all gun confiscation. That opposition has lead to multiple holes in our ability to enforce gun laws. Background checks are a shame, when or if they are enforced.  That opposition still allows anybody to buy any fire arm with out much interference. And the NRA's only answer to gun violence is to add more fire arms into the mix.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 16, 2018)

I think that the NRA and many other organizations were of great value when they first started.  They gathered together like-minded people and gave them a voice/representation at a time when it was difficult for individuals to be heard on various issues.  As they've grown they've developed their own voice that IMO does not accurately represent the membership base.  Our ability to be heard/represented has also changed over the years and IMO organizations like the NRA do not have the same value that they had years ago.

I think eventually these organizations will need to reinvent themselves or fade away.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 16, 2018)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I feel the NRA opposes any gun regulation as a "slippery slope", which will lead to all gun confiscation. That opposition has lead to multiple holes in our ability to enforce gun laws. Background checks are a shame, when or if they are enforced.  That opposition still allows anybody to buy any fire arm with out much interference. And the NRA's only answer to gun violence is to add more fire arms into the mix.


I agree with you.  I think they have made the mind set for their followers that if there are gun regulations all guns will be taken away from anyone.  I wish they would realize gun legislation would do good for our country since there are so many murders and multi murders now a days.  Also, people would still be able to have and buy guns but it would be harder for those who should not have them.  It just is common sense imo!


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## Manatee (Apr 16, 2018)

I was an NRA member years ago, but found other interests since.
Gun confiscation failed in London, so now they are confiscating _knives._  Confiscation was favored by both Hitler and Stalin.  Tight gun laws have been a failure in Chicago and elsewhere.  Lunatic control is what seems to be lacking.


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## Robusta (Apr 17, 2018)

I quit supporting the NRA when they started to lobby against tagging agents in explosives.


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## Sunny (Apr 17, 2018)

Sad example of an organization that was originally fine, going completely off the rails.  And their political power is frightening.


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## helenbacque (Apr 17, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I think that the NRA and many other organizations were of great value when they first started.  They gathered together like-minded people and gave them a voice/representation at a time when it was difficult for individuals to be heard on various issues.  As they've grown they've developed their own voice that IMO does not accurately represent the membership base.  Our ability to be heard/represented has also changed over the years and IMO organizations like the NRA do not have the same value that they had years ago.
> 
> I think eventually these organizations will need to reinvent themselves or fade away.



Exactly.


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## helenbacque (Apr 17, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Sad example of an organization that was originally fine, going completely off the rails.  And their political power is frightening.



So true.


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## BobF (Apr 17, 2018)

The NRA is but one of many that do exist in the US.   Plenty of Amendment 2 supporteres and NRA is not alone nor a majority of persons in the fight.

             [h=1]Membership, interest in gun rights groups soar in the weeks after the Florida high school shooting[/h]                                  Mar 5, 2018 4:23 pm            






          The Daily Mail reports that Google searches on NRA  memberships have soared in the weeks since the deadly Florida high  school shooting. (Getty Images)          
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                Sarah Taylor       Staff Writer    
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                                         Membership, as well as interest in learning  information about joining gun organizations — such as the National Rifle  Association and other grassroots organizations — has increased  dramatically in the weeks after the deadly Parkland, Florida school shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
 [h=3]What are the details?[/h] According a Friday Time article,  many pro-gun and pro-Second Amendment groups saw surges in membership  in and interest after the school shooting, which left at least 17 dead and injured many more.
 Patrick Parsons, head of Georgia Gun Owners — which is a local  independent gun rights org — said, “As soon as anti-gun attacks started  coming in on Twitter, Facebook, and in the media, we began to hear from  people who didn’t even own guns who wanted to join up or contribute out  of solidarity in defense of the Second Amendment to the Constitution.”
 Parsons told Time that the group’s membership — which hovered around  13,000 — gained 1,000 new members in just two weeks following the deadly  shooting.
 Dudley Brown, president of the National Association for Gun  Rights, said that the association, which reportedly has over 4 million  members and supporters, may have grown over 30 percent over the last  week alone.
 The outlet also reported that the Connecticut Citizens Defense  League, an org which boasts a membership of approximately 29,000,  received nearly 200 applications in the last seven days. According to  Time, this is atypical, as the Connecticut Citizens Defense  League generally receives approximately 15-20 applications for week.
 [h=3]What else?[/h] Cleta Mitchell, a former Oklahoma state lawmaker who was on the NRA’s board from 2002 to 2013, addressed the companies who opted to sever ties with the NRA following the Florida school shooting in an email to Time.
 “There is no one. NO ONE. Who joins the NRA for a discount on a  rental car,” Mitchell told Time. “You can rest assured that the NRA will  not lose a single member as a result of this.”
 “If anything,” she added, “it should spur people to join the NRA as a  means of demonstrating that we who believe in the Second Amendment will  not be bullied by these left wing multi-billion dollar corporations.”
 The Daily Mail on Sunday also reported that despite calls from both Democrats and Republicans to tighten gun laws, as well as the many boycotts of the NRA, searches for NRA membership on the Internet increased dramatically since the shooting.
 According to the outlet, the search term “NRA memberships”  is reportedly up 4,900 percent since Feb. 14, the day of the Marjory  Stoneman shooting.
 The NRA has at least 5 million members, but has yet to release any current membership numbers at the time of this writing.
 TheBlaze reached out to the NRA for comment on whether they, too,  received a large uptick in memberships in the weeks following the deadly  school shooting, but the organization did not immediately return a  request for comment.


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## IKE (Apr 17, 2018)

I'm proud to say that I have been a NRA Life Member for over thirty years.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 17, 2018)

Regardless of the original intent of the NRA, it has been corrupted to an unofficial arm of the firearms industry whose main aim is to promote the sale of firearms and related gear. Any restrictions on guns will affect their bottom line and that is their main concern. I don't think they much care about their members (except to promote the sales of  their products to them) or the victims of firearms violence.


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## NancyNGA (Apr 17, 2018)

It is just a big money-making operation now.


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## rkunsaw (Apr 18, 2018)

I've been an NRA member since 1969. If it wasn't for the NRA none of us would have guns. Instead of making laws against guns why don't we just make a law against murder. That would stop all the killing whether by guns, knives or any other means.


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## BobF (Apr 18, 2018)

Arguments against NRA are mostly empty and lacking of any truth.

NRA is the most well known but hardly the only voice out there.   I do not see their membership to be large enough to be a majority.   They have been a large voice b but not a majority.   They have had well known leadership and good advertising but still short in total count.

I do not own or use guns but do see our Constitution as one of the best in the world and prefer to keep it that way.   It is the people of this country that make the decisions, not our political parties.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 18, 2018)

rkunsaw said:


> I've been an NRA member since 1969. If it wasn't for the NRA none of us would have guns. Instead of making laws against guns why don't we just make a law against murder. That would stop all the killing whether by guns, knives or any other means.



Ahhhhhh I believe there is already laws against murder


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## BobF (Apr 18, 2018)

Communism is not gone as some pretend.    There is still China, Cuba, several south and central America countries, Chili for example.   Plenty of communist style thinking going around this world and also plenty of such folks here in the US.  They do hate the Constitution and want to see the US turned into a big hand out for the lazy that believe the US should just fully support those that prefer to see welfare from the government when if following the early ways of the US we were all for those that wanted to come here and create their own way of living.   Which is not that of sitting around and demanding more for housing, food, medicine, and so on.   Just so it is not based on rewards for working.


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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 18, 2018)

I feel the NRA promotes the 2nd Amendment to sell guns. PERIOD. I'm tired of NRA screaming that I want to take your gun out of your cold, dead hand. Why in hell do I want  with your gun? It's just a scare tactic.  How is a real background check before you buy a weapon, some how confiscating your guns? The NRA is quite happy to continue to allow the sale of any gun to anyone. If that leads to putting guns into the hands of people, who shouldn't own them; tough. If that leads to "gun violence", tough.


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## BobF (Apr 18, 2018)

The NRA is not the only gun loving group in the US.    Plenty more around trying to see that the honest gun owners do get proper and legal defenses and support for their love of guns.

Not one thing with owning a gun at all.   Name one problem with the Swiss system.   It is not the guns at all.   It is the mind set that the US allows to develop among too many of our young folks, we also call most of them to be criminals or mental patients not in care.


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## Eric (Apr 18, 2018)

rkunsaw said:


> I've been an NRA member since 1969. If it wasn't for the NRA none of us would have guns. Instead of making laws against guns why don't we just make a law against murder. That would stop all the killing whether by guns, knives or any other means.



Good for you rkunsaw, I've been a member on and off over the years.  You're right buddy, if it wasn't for the NRA we wouldn't have guns or any protection of our second amendment rights in the USofA.  Right on about making laws against guns because they will only affect the lawful gun owners who don't rob and kill people with their firearms.  If they get smart they could cut down on the shootings especially in public places.  In schools they should have armed guards, protect the grounds and buildings, use a dedicated entrance and exit every day, check the people coming in instead of letting any joe wander in off the streets and for God's sake allow concealed carry for the people who are trained to have a permit.  Make soft targets hard, just makes good sense.  The shootings won't stop until the gun grabbers wake up and smell the coffee.



fuzzybuddy said:


> I feel the NRA promotes the 2nd Amendment to sell guns. PERIOD. I'm tired of NRA screaming that I want to take your gun out of your cold, dead hand. Why in hell do I want  with your gun? It's just a scare tactic.  How is a real background check before you buy a weapon, some how confiscating your guns? The NRA is quite happy to continue to allow the sale of any gun to anyone. If that leads to putting guns into the hands of people, who shouldn't own them; tough. If that leads to "gun violence", tough.



Funny how the gun control advocates always start these talks on message boards. <grin>  The NRA does promote the second amendment, and there's nothing wrong with that at all, that's why they have so many members.  Members who know gun safety and obey the laws.  I own hand guns and rifles and have never in my life killed anyone or used my firearms to commit a crime.  They DON'T do it to sell guns, fake news.

*"Myth 1: The NRA represents gun manufacturers.
*One of the most pervasive myths about NRA is that it represents firearm manufacturers. It doesn't. It represents firearm _owners_. Firearm manufacturers are represented by the National Shooting Sports Foundation. Yes, manufacturers often contribute money to the Association or raffle/contest prizes to one of its many programs, but NRA—at its heart—is a non-profit civil rights organization. As for firearms manufacturers, their size and cash reserves are grossly overestimated by those who oppose gun rights. A firearm is an extremely durable product with a very long service life, and is a big-ticket item for most consumers, limiting sales. Unless a firearm manufacturer is also a defense or law-enforcement contractor with domestic and/or foreign government contracts, it is typically a small operation; certainly nowhere near being a Fortune 500 company"

*"Myth 2: The NRA's power rests in how much money it gives out to candidates.
*Many gun-control advocates seem to have trouble believing that someone would disagree with them on a subject like gun control and that, if someone does, it must be the result of greed. The truth is that the NRA's power comes not from distributing cash, but from producing votes. NRA members are politically informed and engaged, and vote in extremely high numbers. Moreover, many are single-issue voters who have arrived at the understanding that their opinions on any other subject are potentially moot without the Second Amendment backing them up"

*"Myth 3: The NRA's influence is grossly disproportionate to its membership numbers.
*This miscalculation is based on the actual number of paid NRA memberships. It fails to consider the practical realities of non-profit advocacy. Not every family can afford separate memberships for each member of the family. Many households have only one "official" member, but everyone in the home reads the NRA Official Journal and supports the Association in spirit. During times of economic hardship, organization memberships are often viewed as a luxury and are voluntarily suspended by annual members until things improve. Further, when the political situation is "good" for gun owners (for example, when there is a pro-gun administration in Washington), gun owners feel safe and often allow their memberships to lapse. And, of course, some people just aren't "joiners." They believe in the Right to Keep and Bear Arms but, for whatever reason, don't formally join advocacy organizations, though they vote in support of the Second Amendment. So, while NRA may have "only" 5 million members, each of those represents many like-minded folks who turn out come Election Day and cast votes in preservation of their rights."

*"Myth 4: Polls show that most Americans disagree with NRA and want more gun control.
*The mainstream press often cites polls showing Americans support gun control. Don't believe them. First, you have to know 

how the poll was conducted and how questions were posed. If asked, simply "Are you in favor of gun control?" a person on the street may say yes. However, if you pose the question "Do you favor more gun control legislation or the enforcement of existing laws?" that same person may favor the latter.
We also must consider whether we really want Constitutional rights determined via polling. The Bill of Rights protects the individual from "the tyranny of the majority." The Second Amendment doesn't say "Good poll numbers being essential to good public policy, the right of the people ... ." Are we forbidden from practicing a certain religion because it's not trending well? Do we give up the right to read a good book because it's fallen into disfavor among the majority?"

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2017/3/19/4-common-myths-about-the-nrabusted/


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## rkunsaw (Apr 19, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Ahhhhhh I believe there is already laws against murder



If there are laws against murder how could anyone ever be murdered? Surely everyone obeys the laws against murder the same as criminals always obey gun laws.


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## Camper6 (Apr 19, 2018)

BobF said:


> Arguments against NRA are mostly empty and lacking of any truth.
> 
> NRA is the most well known but hardly the only voice out there.   I do not see their membership to be large enough to be a majority.   They have been a large voice b but not a majority.   They have had well known leadership and good advertising but still short in total count.
> 
> I do not own or use guns but do see our Constitution as one of the best in the world and prefer to keep it that way.   It is the people of this country that make the decisions, not our political parties.



That's not quite accurate.  The people vote.  That vote goes to a political party.  That political party can use that vote any way they wish. Once you vote you have no more say in the political process.


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## ancient mariner (Apr 19, 2018)

My husband says I shoot from the hip.


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## Sunny (Apr 19, 2018)

> If there are laws against murder how could anyone ever be murdered?  Surely everyone obeys the laws against murder the same as criminals  always obey gun laws.



Of course, there are always people who violate laws. But the gun laws we are talking about would be there for the purpose of making it a lot harder for angry, emotionally distressed, or totally insane people to get their hands on assault weapons. What on earth is wrong with that?

Fuzzy, your note is right on the mark. The NRA is interested in selling guns, period. No matter to whom or for what purpose. And by brilliant advertising, they have managed to convince a number of people that these tools have a kind of mystical rosy glow, they are sacred and not to be restricted in any manner, for any reason.  It seems to me a kind of demented religion. We've got to give the NRA credit, they've found an effective means of mind control.

From the Games forum the other day, here's a quote that applies:

"Advertising may be described as the science of arresting the human  intelligence long enough to get money from it." Stephen Leacock


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## BobF (Apr 19, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Of course, there are always people who violate laws. But the gun laws we are talking about would be there for the purpose of making it a lot harder for angry, emotionally distressed, or totally insane people to get their hands on assault weapons. What on earth is wrong with that?
> 
> Fuzzy, your note is right on the mark. The NRA is interested in selling guns, period. No matter to whom or for what purpose. And by brilliant advertising, they have managed to convince a number of people that these tools have a kind of mystical rosy glow, they are sacred and not to be restricted in any manner, for any reason.  It seems to me a kind of demented religion. We've got to give the NRA credit, they've found an effective means of mind control.
> 
> ...



Yep, they convince the people, gun owners and non gun owners that we do have a Constitution that assures folks for doing something.   It does not matter which party seems to be in control.   Our Constitution is still our true leader.   We really should insist that after the election that our government should be run by the rules of the Constitution and not those of some loose minded political party.

We really need to follow our Constitution and not just the ideas of certain folks.

Want to change our Constitution there are rules for doing that.


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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 19, 2018)

Within the NRA, you have a problem. Is the NRA an organization of  gun enthusiasts or a gun manufacturer's lobby group? Most of the lobbying is paid by the manufacturers. The enthusiasts provide a one issue voting bloc. Together they have successfully thwarted all attempts to rein in gun violence. They are not concerned with the carnage of gun violence. And unquestionably, a fire arm brings with it the carnage of gun violence. You can't have one without the other. The goal is an unfettered right to own firearms, while freeing them from any responsibilities of gun ownership.
And BTW, I keep hearing that the NRA is the "ONLY thing" standing in the way of the government's  confiscation of all guns, etc, etc. etc. Makes a good talking point. But somehow the 2 Amendment is the real "thing", not the NRA.


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## helenbacque (Apr 19, 2018)

They distribute too much money to too many misguided people.


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## Big Horn (Apr 19, 2018)

I've been an NRA member for sixty years, Life member for over fifty.  The NRA became political from necessity.  For many years they compromised with the anti-gun people, but they finally realized that compromise is impossible.  Today, we are in control; we'll never compromise again.


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## KingsX (Apr 19, 2018)

BobF said:


> Communism is not gone as some pretend.    There is still China, Cuba, several south and central America countries, Chili for example.   Plenty of communist style thinking going around this world and also plenty of such folks here in the US.  They do hate the Constitution and want to see the US turned into a big hand out for the lazy that believe the US should just fully support those that prefer to see welfare from the government when if following the early ways of the US we were all for those that wanted to come here and create their own way of living.   Which is not that of sitting around and demanding more for housing, food, medicine, and so on.   Just so it is not based on rewards for working.





Every May 9th Putin conducts a Stalinist-type Communist Red Army victory military parade in Moscow's  Red Square,
complete with glorifying images of Bolshevik Lenin and Communist hammer and sickle symbols and flags.  

Putin's Communist Red Army military parade marches past Lenin's tomb. Yes, Lenin still lies in a place of honor at the Kremlin.


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## Sunny (Apr 19, 2018)

And Archie Bunker is alive and well.


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## CTLady (Apr 19, 2018)

Everybody wants gun regulations from the NRA.  So far I haven't seen any kind of suggestions on exactly what exactly do they propose?  If guns are banned then only the criminals will have guns; that is a fact.  Guns are available in the streets and how will they clean that up?


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## Sunny (Apr 19, 2018)

The NRA has invested heavily in getting "their" people elected to Congress and the Senate.  My suggestion is to pass legislation drastically cutting down on the financial contributions to lawmakers allowed to private lobbying groups.  That way, the lawmakers would not (many of them) be in the pockets of the NRA.

But of course, this won't happen as long as the NRA lackeys are the people who have to pass the legislation!  Maybe the Supreme Court could enforce some sort of controls?


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## KingsX (Apr 19, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Maybe the Supreme Court could enforce some sort of controls?





For many decades the US Extreme Court has been dictating unpopular cultural marxist laws.

.


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## Camper6 (Apr 19, 2018)

CTLady said:


> Everybody wants gun regulations from the NRA.  So far I haven't seen any kind of suggestions on exactly what exactly do they propose?  If guns are banned then only the criminals will have guns; that is a fact.  Guns are available in the streets and how will they clean that up?



It's not criminals shooting up the schools,churches,concerts. Grandfathering like they did with automatics. Handguns will always be available.


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## BobF (Apr 19, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> It's not criminals shooting up the schools,churches,concerts. Grandfathering like they did with automatics. Handguns will always be available.



Had they been properly medically described prior to their wild shooting they would have been put in to closer care in mental institutions.    Had their parents of others taken time to keep them from having weapons out of concern.   Had our politicians allowed for proper screening of buyers and for armed guards in our public areas like schools we would not have so much grief to worry about.   Why not have capable and willing teachers carry defensive weapons with them, or at least make it possible for them to do so if they choose to do so.

No way to blame those innocent of seeing these things happen if they are prevented from being part of the active defense.

Blaming the NRA for all evil is not very intelligent to say the least.    They are just the best known but there are other groups around doing the same types of things the NRA is doing.   If I can ever find someone that has put together a list and numbers for the existing groups I will post if for all to see.


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## Camper6 (Apr 19, 2018)

I'm not blaming the NRA. And I doubt screening every individual would be feasible. The gun cannot be left out of the equation and blaming everything else hasn't worked for decades. Time for a new approach.


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## BobF (Apr 19, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> It's not criminals shooting up the schools,churches,concerts. Grandfathering like they did with automatics. Handguns will always be available.



A correction on one description is this.   There were no *automatics* used in these gun events.   There were *semiautomatics* that looked like the real automatics.


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## Camper6 (Apr 19, 2018)

BobF said:


> A correction on one description is this.   There were no *automatics* used in these gun events.   There were *semiautomatics* that looked like the real automatics.


Oh we know that Bob. Lucky for us only semis. Like we need more firepower?
So just dismiss the semis as harmless?
One of the shooters used a bump stock imitating an automatic.


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## BobF (Apr 20, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Oh we know that Bob. Lucky for us only semis. Like we need more firepower?
> So just dismiss the semis as harmless?
> One of the shooters used a bump stock imitating an automatic.



If you want to push blame at least do it honestly.   They were not automatics.   One or. two per second is a lot less deadly than in the higher rates of the automatics.

There is no reason for doing any of this shooting so why not go for the problem, the shooters.   Many have been identified as mental problems.   That is the source and there needs to be a way of handling this problem.  

Knives, explosions, fire bombs, all sorts of alternatives would become apparent to the mental midgets that do these things if the guns are taken away.


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## Camper6 (Apr 20, 2018)

BobF said:


> If you want to push blame at least do it honestly.
> 
> There is no reason for doing any of this shooting so why not go for the problem, the shooters.   Msany have been identified as mental problems.   That is the source and there needs to be a way of handling this problem.
> 
> Knives, explosions, fire bombs, all sorts of alternatives would become apparent to the mental midgets that do these things.



Bob. You cannot leave the gun out of the equation and hope to solve the problem.  I'm tired of seeing excuses instead of solving the problem and that's the last I have to say on it.


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## BobF (Apr 20, 2018)

The gun is but a small part of the equation.   The shooter is the biggest part and the shooter can and will use whatever else he can find, no guns then explosives, fire, knives, whatever the killer chooses to be their weapon.

The killer is the problem and the method is of the killers choice.


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## Sunny (Apr 20, 2018)

Bob, Bob, Bob.  Of course the gun is a key element in the problem.  Yes, it requires someone to shoot it (duh, I think we all knew that).  But the proliferation of these extremely dangerous tools of destruction, and the ease of acquiring them no matter by whom, is responsible for the constant daily shootings, and the mass slaughter committed on innocent people, including children. Take away the guns and you have a maniac running around with a knife, who might stab one or two people before being brought down. 

And the knives and other implements of murder are also tools with other purposes. The gun has no purpose other than inflicting damage, aside from target practice. Most of the worshippers of guns do not use them for target practice. Semi-automatics are not usually used for hunting. What possible justification can there be for allowing any civilian access to these weapons?

It's easy to say, "Remove the mentally ill from the picture, lock up the criminals in advance, etc."  How on earth could we ever do that?  A young man goes to a gun dealer and purchases one of those weapons. Is the gun dealer supposed to be a mind reader, able to know what the young man is planning to do with that gun?  A stupid parent buys a gun for "protection of his family," except that he doesn't bother locking it up. Bam!  Maybe the gun dealer should administer an IQ test before selling the gun?

These automatic (or semi-automatic, let's not split hairs) guns must be removed from easy access by the public, period. Yes, it would be nice to remove the nut cases, but removing the guns is a lot easier!  They are just guns. Metal objects.  There is nothing sacred about them, no matter what the NRA is trying to get us to believe about them.


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## Sunny (Apr 20, 2018)

P.S. And before you suggest that in the absence of guns, the bad guys will start poisoning the water supply, I also believe that poisons on that scale should be inaccessable to the general public.


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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 20, 2018)

I know very little about fire arms. All I know is you put bullets into it and they come out when fired up. The uses of a gun are extremely limited. You can't fix a leaky sink with one. It has one basic use= to shoot at something. The reason for a gun is to kill something, or someone. We, in the USA, can own and use guns. The NRA is both a manufacturer's and gun owner's advocate. Its opposition to any gun restriction legislation is legendary. It is a strong, and powerful voice in politics. By its  total opposition of any reasonable gun regulation, we have a fractured system of gun laws, where enormous holes, via gun shows, etc.,which permit anyone to purchase any weapon. The resulting deaths from gun violence rest squarely on the shooter and the NRA, which enable guns to be put in the hands of those, who should not have them.


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## BobF (Apr 20, 2018)

Apparently we still have no one willing to admit that there are many groups other than NRA.   NRA has about 5 million members and that is a small number.    The number of gun lovers is much larger than the gun haters and many are also part of the far left political party bunch.   If you really wish to get rid of guns it would need to be a effort to revise our Constitution.

Why are the Swiss able to have guns and not have gun crazy like we seem to have in the US.   It is something in our culture in the US.   Why do we raise folks that think killing is an OK thing to do.  The Swiss have guns in homes, in public, it is part of their lives and somehow they don't seem to develop minds for killing.

It all boils down to the people, the shooters,   Without a shooters mind set like our sicko types, not many get shot.   The guns do not shoot themselves.


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## Sunny (Apr 21, 2018)

> Apparently we still have no one willing to admit that there are many groups other than NRA.



So, why does that let the NRA off the hook?


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## BobF (Apr 21, 2018)

Leaving NRA 'off the hook' is not the intent at all.   Why pick only on NRA when many others are involved in their same battle.

The battle will have to be much bigger, a federal case in Congress where enough power is shown to end guns in the US and then a federal effort to modify our Constitution would need to be started.   Once started it would start through the states, one by one, until eventually enough states agreed to some sort of change or the effort get pulled back for lack of interest.   It might be quickly or take years to get to happen.

I am not against this action taking place at all.   What does not count are all these parades, sit in's, thoughtless leadership directing things down false paths.   This is teaching our young people the wrong way to disagree with our Constitution.

  Guns don't ever shoot anyone.    It takes twisted minds to take a gun and shoot someone.


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## Gary O' (Apr 21, 2018)

fuzzybuddy said:


> The uses of a gun are extremely limited. You can't fix a leaky sink with one. It has one basic use= to shoot at something. The reason for a gun is to kill something, or someone. We, in the USA, can own and use guns. The NRA is both a manufacturer's and gun owner's advocate. Its opposition to any gun restriction legislation is legendary. It is a strong, and powerful voice in politics. By its  total opposition of any reasonable gun regulation, we have a fractured system of gun laws, where enormous holes, via *gun shows, etc.,which permit anyone to purchase any weapon*. The resulting deaths from gun violence rest squarely on the shooter and the NRA, which enable guns to be put in the hands of those, who should not have them.


Guess I’m not understanding the paranoia
I’m a member
Been one for some time now
Get some mailings, but they don’t pester me
In our area, being a member is no big deal, it’s like whether or not you go to church
Why you go or don’t go is never brought up
There’s more folks that carry here than those that don’t 


As far as artillery usage other than defense or ‘killing’;
My shotguns do things like knock chunks of snow off high tree limbs before they drop on this unsuspecting ol’ head of mine
And shoo deer away from my garden
Things like that
Looks to be the ‘agenda’ is not by the NRA…..

*'gun shows, etc.,which permit anyone to purchase any weapon'
*a total misguided untruth
....ever try to buy one lately?





fuzzybuddy said:


> I know very little about fire arms.  .


apparently


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## Dragonlady (Apr 22, 2018)

BobF said:


> Leaving NRA 'off the hook' is not the intent at all.   Why pick only on NRA when many others are involved in their same battle.
> 
> The battle will have to be much bigger, a federal case in Congress where enough power is shown to end guns in the US and then a federal effort to modify our Constitution would need to be started.   Once started it would start through the states, one by one, until eventually enough states agreed to some sort of change or the effort get pulled back for lack of interest.   It might be quickly or take years to get to happen.
> 
> ...



Most of us "pick on" the NRA because it is the loudest, most conspicuous of the "gun lovers" organizations Do any of the other "groups give the same large contributions to members of congress or have as many lobbyists there working to influence any gun legislation? If they do, please tell us so we can target them also. I am not after all guns - just AR-15s and others of that ilk. No civilian really needs a gun of that type. A need of that is pure fantasy. 
M


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## Sunny (Apr 22, 2018)

Dragonlady, exactly.  The NRA is "picked on" because it is the biggest and loudest, throwing its weight around by financing politicians who apparently don't care how many people get killed, as long as they get elected.


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## BobF (Apr 23, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Most of us "pick on" the NRA because it is the loudest, most conspicuous of the "gun lovers" organizations Do any of the other "groups give the same large contributions to members of congress or have as many lobbyists there working to influence any gun legislation? If they do, please tell us so we can target them also. I am not after all guns - just AR-15s and others of that ilk. No civilian really needs a gun of that type. A need of that is pure fantasy.
> M



What do you mean by a AR 15 and there type?    The legal AR 15's are no different than any other type of legal gun sold in the us.   They are not full automatic like the military versions.   They have been limited to semi auto matic like all repeating shot weapons sold to civilians.   They may look just like military weapons but as long as they only operate as civilian guns are allowed to work, they are legal and not full automatic.    You can buy a .22 clip loaded rifle that will have the same capabilities of the legal US civilian bound market guns.  They are all semi automatic.

You big argument is that nobody should be murdered in any way.    I would prefer the bullet and sudden death to a knife cut and slowly bleeding to death over minutes or more time. 

Get the nutters off the road and cared for in a health facility and many of these mass killings would have never happened.    How about todays news.   Carrying guns, no cloths on, killed four, but a nearby person grabbed the rifle and ended that threat.   It is not the guns doing the killings, it is the nut cases with the guns that is our problem.

Time for some folks to really read what is agreed too and stop crying about imagined problems.


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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 23, 2018)

One of the characteristics of all mass shootings is they all involve a firearm, and a shooter. Let's see, you take away the firearm. And presto, you don't  have a shooter. Despite what the NRA preaches, guns do kill people. Why in the hell do you want a gun for 'PROTECTION", if it didn't?  And firearms, which can  totally macerate a human in less time than it takes to read this sentence, have no place in our society, outside of the military. The nation is united. Gun violence is unacceptable, and avoidable. In poll after poll, NRA members favor tighter gun regulations. Yet, at the reins of the NRA, they remain entrenched in the status quo- a broken system of gun regulations. We have to drag the NRA out of the mythical "Old West" into the present century.


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## Gary O' (Apr 23, 2018)

fuzzybuddy said:


> *One of the characteristics of all mass killings is they all involve a firearm*, and a shooter. Let's see, you take away the firearm. And presto, you don't  have a shooter. Despite what the NRA preaches, guns do kill people. Why in the hell do you want a gun for 'PROTECTION", if it didn't?


Timothy McVeigh and several others might bare a flaw in that synopsis


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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 23, 2018)

Shooters


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## Gary O' (Apr 23, 2018)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Shooters


not sure where yer goin' with that

but

thirsty now


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## Camper6 (Apr 23, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> not sure where yer goin' with that
> 
> but
> 
> thirsty now



The theory is if a shooter can't get a gun he will use something else like a bomb.


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## Don M. (Apr 23, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Most of us "pick on" the NRA because it is the loudest, most conspicuous of the "gun lovers" organizations Do any of the other "groups give the same large contributions to members of congress or have as many lobbyists there working to influence any gun legislation? If they do, please tell us so we can target them also. I am not after all guns - just AR-15s and others of that ilk. No civilian really needs a gun of that type. A need of that is pure fantasy. M



Actually, the NRA is nowhere near the top of the list, in terms of campaign contributions.  There are numerous web sites that track how much the various politicians get from the special interest groups...then best one probably is Opensecrets.org.  Here's just one example of how much the NRA has contributed to various politicians.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/o...ar-goes-beyond-campaign-contributions-n593051 

Here's a listing of the top Dark Money donors in recent years......

https://www.opensecrets.org/dark-money/top-donors

And....contrary to popular opinion, politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle are bought and paid for.....

http://freebeacon.com/politics/none-of-the-top-10-biggest-political-donors-are-republican/

The sad truth is....Money rules our government and politicians...and the rest of us are just "Pawns" that are only necessary in the weeks/months leading up to the elections...then quickly forgotten.  Big Money spends lavishly on Both sides of the Aisle, so that no matter who wins, their agenda is protected.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 23, 2018)

The fact remains that no one outside the military NEEDS an automatic or semi automatic rifle. Those who try to maintain that they do are plain and simple rationalizing a "want" to a "need".


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## BobF (Apr 23, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> The fact remains that no one outside the military NEEDS an automatic or semi automatic rifle. Those who try to maintain that they do are plain and simple rationalizing a "want" to a "need".



That all must now buy a rifle must buy one of those approved semiautomatic weapons, pistols, rifles, various gauges, and demanding that all must be less than the single shot semiautomatic is demanding that all forget any pretense of self defense for sure.   Ending up with a single shot and manual reload for second shot is a bit over board.   Not quite, but certainly on its way back to the old musket and primer loading ideas for sure.

If todays problems do not show who our problems are then all are blind.    We have a killer that was stopped by a real live person so he did not get to use his lack of brain to build up a higher count.   It appears that his father knew the guy had a problem but did not do anything about having his gun rights ended, months ago.   It is a  people problem and not a gun problem.   All this braying and claiming lies to be fact is not going to end the problem. 

Nobody decided to sit up and defend what the Swiss are doing.    I would guess just afraid to take a look at reality and see that it does not fit the ways for some folks thinking.


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## Camper6 (Apr 23, 2018)

rkunsaw said:


> I've been an NRA member since 1969. If it wasn't for the NRA none of us would have guns. Instead of making laws against guns why don't we just make a law against murder. That would stop all the killing whether by guns, knives or any other means.



What do you mean that if it wasn't for the NRA none of us would have guns?

The NRA had nothing to do with it.  The Second Amendment allowed people to be armed. The Constitution.  Long before the NRA came into existence.


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## Camper6 (Apr 23, 2018)

BobF said:


> That all must now buy a rifle must buy one of those approved semiautomatic weapons, pistols, rifles, various gauges, and demanding that all must be less than the single shot semiautomatic is demanding that all forget any pretense of self defense for sure.   Ending up with a single shot and manual reload for second shot is a bit over board.   Not quite, but certainly on its way back to the old musket and primer loading ideas for sure.
> 
> If todays problems do not show who our problems are then all are blind.    We have a killer that was stopped by a real live person so he did not get to use his lack of brain to build up a higher count.   It appears that his father knew the guy had a problem but did not do anything about having his gun rights ended, months ago.   It is a  people problem and not a gun problem.   All this braying and claiming lies to be fact is not going to end the problem.
> 
> Nobody decided to sit up and defend what the Swiss are doing.    I would guess just afraid to take a look at reality and see that it does not fit the ways for some folks thinking.



The Swiss have mandatory conscription.  Is that what you are advocating? Their laws on gun possession are quite strict compared to the U.S. and it's country wide.  Not like the U.S. where every state has different laws.

Are you quoting Switzerland as a model to emulate?  Then make all gun laws federal?


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## Big Horn (Apr 23, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> The Swiss have mandatory conscription.  Is that what you are advocating? Their laws on gun possession are quite strict compared to the U.S. and it's country wide.  Not like the U.S. where every state has different laws.
> 
> Are you quoting Switzerland as a model to emulate?  Then make all gun laws federal?


Some Swiss gun laws are federal, but most are cantonal.  Look it up.


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## BobF (Apr 24, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> The Swiss have mandatory conscription.  Is that what you are advocating? Their laws on gun possession are quite strict compared to the U.S. and it's country wide.  Not like the U.S. where every state has different laws.
> 
> Are you quoting Switzerland as a model to emulate?  Then make all gun laws federal?



My comments about the Swiss are not about who has the stricter gun laws.    As I saw things they really have looser gun laws and have no problems with the young folks or older folks being right open with their gun carrying and where they can take them.   That is something that the folks in the US seem afraid to do.   Why is this so in the US but not in Switzerland where it is expected for them to have gun holidays and most folks will be moving about town with his weapons, riding buses, eating in restaurants. just havomg a good time with his friends and neighbors.

Why must the US not be able to do the same?   What do they teach their people to have them all so nicely conforming to their laws and expectancy of decency to the rest of their countries folks.   Certainly things the US should be able to apply to encourage kinder and better ways for folks to live together.

We need to get rid of the mental problem folks, not the guns as they alone do nothing.    In the hands of well minded and intended folks the guns do nothing wrong but in the hands of untrustworthy folks they can and do create a hell for some folks.

I don't find their laws to be tough on the folks in Switzerland.   At military age they get a gun given to them.    After their years of service they do get to keep them if they wish.   That sure does not seem too tough to me.

My question is how do they manage to keep the nutters from trying to take over their country.    They seem to be doing something a lot smarter than we are.


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