# What do you think of homeschooling (K-12)?



## NancyNGA (Nov 2, 2015)

I think it's also call home education in some places. 

I've only known two couples who home schooled their children, so not much experience with it on a personal level.  

I'd like to hear some opinions.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 2, 2015)

I never knew anyone who homeschooled, but I think I'd want my kids to have the regular school experience, which includes socialization, competition and friendship/relationships with other children.


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## fureverywhere (Nov 2, 2015)

My middle daughter was having an incredibly difficult first year of high school. I wouldn't let her entertain dropping out but it was still early in the term. I had the option to home school her for the year and I did. I was also working full time. I suppose for someone who is a stay at home parent and the child is in grammar school it would be easier.

But it was a heck of a lot of work for me. Good that I could assign books with special meaning to me that she could enjoy as well. But math and science for high school level is waaaay beyond what they taught when I was in school. She finally went back to public school in her junior year and it was better for both of us.


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## NancyNGA (Nov 2, 2015)

SeaBreeze, that is my knee jerk reaction also.  But if a child is having trouble, maybe it is a good thing. Or maybe just extra tutoring at home would be a better compromise.  Fureverywhere (love that name), I can imagine it would be a huge undertaking, and working full time too---Yikes!!


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## Underock1 (Nov 2, 2015)

I think its a horrid idea. I do know of some friends kids who did it. The principle motive seems to be religious, and a fear of being contaminated by popular culture, and/or drugs in the public schools. There is truth to some of that, but a lot of these kids are being taught Creationism and not learning to deal with people holding other views. Sooner or later they are going to have to live in the real world.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 2, 2015)

I agree Nancy, if it's a special situation and the child needs to be homeschooled or tutored for a period of time, that's a different story I think.  Fureverywhere, kudos for doing that for your daughter, sound like you did just the right thing as a caring and able mom.  Glad she went back to school in her junior year and was better off for it.


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## Don M. (Nov 2, 2015)

There are a lot of Amish and Mennonites in our area, and many of them are homeschooled.  We are good friends with a Mennonite couple in the neighborhood, and they have a teenage daughter they have been home schooling.  She is very intelligent, and a real math whiz.  I would think that she should have little trouble qualifying for entry into a university, should she want to....I doubt that her parents are teaching her any of this "common core".


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## fureverywhere (Nov 2, 2015)

That's a different ballpark, when it's people trying to shield their kids from the secular world. Then you know it can't end well.


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## Cookie (Nov 2, 2015)

There was a guy in my office whose kids were home schooled.  He was Jehovah's Witness, who didn't allow his kids to watch movies or go to birthday parties either.  I know of another family who home school their kids and do not allow them to participate in normal childhood activities, the father is very anti-establishment and strange and I don't think this is healthy for the kids. They also home birthed all their 5 children, the last one without even a midwife.  I somehow think these kids have a bleak future as they are quite poor and seem like they will have limited opportunities in life.


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## Debby (Nov 3, 2015)

I homeschooled my oldest for the first couple years, but she was such a strong-willed and argumentative kid that I finally sent her to school because it was not good for our relationship.  Her motto was like that cigarette campaign, "I'd rather fight than switch/agree/do what I'm told....'  I figured that maybe a stranger would intimidate her enough to get her through school. 

And there's a young fellow in our neighbourhood whose single mom (she is a medical transcriber who works from home) took him out of school because he was having difficulties with being bullied and apparently it works really well for them and he's ahead of his peers on most of his subjects.....I think it depends on the parents and the kids involved.  It works for some and not for others.

Most people who homeschool, in my experience, are members of churches and their kids are seeing other kids on a regular basis as they are involved in church activities or they are secular but part of a Homeschooling network and the kids participate in various activities as a group.  So the fear about not being socialized isn't really an issue.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 3, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> That's a different ballpark, when it's people trying to shield their kids from the secular world. Then you know it can't end well.



So we should all cheerfully let our kids march into the blender?

No thanks.

My wife and I home-schooled our eldest. From kindergarten to 7th grade. Yes, it was hard work, but it was rewarding - he's now working on his PhD at Georgia Tech, on a full scholarship.

Socialization wasn't a problem - not if you plan appropriate activities. "Shielding from the secular world" - that's not totally a bad thing.


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## Falcon (Nov 3, 2015)

Depends on who the "home teachers "  (parents)  are.  Some may not be capable of teaching the kids anything useful.

Some parents don't know enough to come in out of the rain.  I know of a few.  I dare not  reveal them here.


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## Cookie (Nov 3, 2015)

My son was home schooled for two years while we were living overseas, a temporary arrangement. When we came back to Canada he returned to public school and did much better than he had before we went away.  Sometimes a break from the stress of the school system helps the learning process.


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## Shirley (Nov 3, 2015)

Many parents are homeschooling their children here. Some because of religious reasons, most because public schools are not giving students a good education. They have been dumbed down so that the least intelligent can get passing grades. The teachers are being made to teach to the tests. If you are qualified to teach at home, I think it would be a good idea.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 3, 2015)

IMO teaching is a skill... and teachers need to have knowledge in their areas and a degree in education.. What makes parents think they are qualified to teach?  That would be like having your neighbor do you dental work because he has a chair and a drill..   I think it's a huge disservice to the kids and leaves them ill prepared to meet the challenges of being out in the real world.


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## Cookie (Nov 3, 2015)

Theoretically, I agree, QS, however, I remember my school years and most of the teachers were terrible.  In fact in the 50s, teachers did not need a degree, just high school.  An older friend of mine was a schoolteacher where I grew up and she did not have any degree or teaching certificate.  She did, however, upgrade over the years.  In the 50s there were so few teachers in more rural areas, that girls would easily take on that job. 

Nowadays, people are allowed to home school, the school board provides the necessary textbooks and study guides.  No problemo, I think, especially for elementary students.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 3, 2015)

Falcon said:


> Depends on who the "home teachers "  (parents)  are.  Some may not be capable of teaching the kids anything useful.
> 
> Some parents don't know enough to come in out of the rain.  I know of a few.  I dare not  reveal them here.



That's true. Here in PA the parent/teachers have to be "qualified" by the State - they have to have minimum educational requirements and be able to present a fully-fleshed-out syllabus - then prove that they followed it. I'm sure each state has different requirements.


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## Falcon (Nov 3, 2015)

Right!  QS   Thanks.


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## NancyNGA (Nov 3, 2015)

Thanks for sharing your stories on this subject.  I really appreciate seeing this from different perspectives.


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## Linda (Nov 3, 2015)

I know several families who have home schooled.  Most of the kids did great academically, but had problems socializing and fitting in.  I think if you home school you should make sure your kids socialize with more than just your church friends.  They will have to work out in the world, let them learn how to get along out there.  Not all kids in public school are on drugs or having sex with anything that moves.  I think it'd be a good idea to have your child volunteer for something or another that would put them "out there" so they don't turn into social weirdos.  I KNOW all kids who are home schooled don't turn out strange or unusual but a lot of them do.  Anyone here home schooled as a child?  What is your opinion?


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## Underock1 (Nov 3, 2015)

Linda said:


> I know several families who have home schooled.  Most of the kids did great academically, but had problems socializing and fitting in.  I think if you home school you should make sure your kids socialize with more than just your church friends.  They will have to work out in the world, let them learn how to get along out there.  Not all kids in public school are on drugs or having sex with anything that moves.  I think it'd be a good idea to have your child volunteer for something or another that would put them "out there" so they don't turn into social weirdos.  I KNOW all kids who are home schooled don't turn out strange or unusual but a lot of them do.  Anyone here home schooled as a child?  What is your opinion?



From reading the posts, I see that there are varied reasons for home schooling with some very successful outcomes.
My own opinion is that the majority of people who do this are the Evangelicals trying to prevent their kids from being contaminated by the real world.
I'm going to get grief for saying this, but I think its sad that being so consumed over being "left behind" in the "end times", their kids are being left behind in the present times. Just my own opinion, of course.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 4, 2015)

Lack of socialization opportunities is one of the most common complaints about home-schooling. Unfortunately it is largely untrue and is one that pushes my buttons.

First, there are countless opportunities to teach proper socialization skills as a home-schooling parent, once again if you take the time and effort to search them out. There are even home-schooling organizations that are devoted to this aspect. Scouting, sports, even field trips to museums all qualify as socialization.

What kind of socialization skills do you gain from your typical public school?

Yes, you learn to "get along". Many high-functioning students are held back, academically and socially, by this phenomenon. Not everyone is MEANT to just get along - they are so far beyond your normal child that attending a school like this cripples them. 

And yes, it's true that drugs and promiscuity are not in EVERY school ... but if you know what's going on in your local hall of education - again, if you take the time and effort to find out - you might be surprised.

Not all teachers are 100% devoted to their charges - MANY are just there for the pensions and benefits and could care less about the students. Nowadays teachers are also very often hamstrung by teaching requirements themselves - they have to teach down to the lowest common denominator in order to get those averages up in order for the school to continue to get funding, so the high-achievers are short-changed.

QS had asked earlier what qualifies a parent to teach - parents have been teaching their children since the beginning of time. Public schools did not come along until the 1840's at the urging of Thomas Jefferson, and it wasn't until 1852 that the first compulsory schooling started in Massachusetts. Who better to teach their own children (given of course that the parent HAS the necessary knowledge and time)? Who cares more? Who has more invested in their own children?

A teaching degree doesn't make you a teacher - it only allows you to legally teach. It's like getting a black belt in martial arts - it really doesn't mean a thing.  

Finally, yes, some of my own prejudices about socialization came into play when we were home-schooling my son. I saw the socialization banner as being one that advocated being like the rest of the crowd, never trying too hard to succeed, just being a slacker, just "getting along". It was training to become a sheep.


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## Warrigal (Nov 4, 2015)

I see no real problem with home schooling as long as there is some oversight by the state educational authorities to ensure quality.

Children living on remote outback properties in Australia have just two choices - boarding school or distance education via home schooling.
These kids do very well with the home schooling but there is a lot of support via the correspondence school or the School of the Air.
Socialisation is taken care of via TV/radio links and periodic camps with their peers.


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## Cookie (Nov 4, 2015)

If our Board of Education and government has approved home schooling and provides the necessary support and materials, then I don't see why we should see anything wrong with it.  Socialization can occur outside of the schoolroom and does. Many children don't fit into the public school or private school systems, that are rife with strife and do much better learning at home.  Private schools, although considered higher quality have been well known to produce many damaged and disturbed adults.


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## AZ Jim (Nov 4, 2015)

I believe it robs the child of the opportunity to operate in an environment of other children which imparts knowledge needed later to successfully deal with others in our society.


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## jujube (Nov 4, 2015)

I know a family who homeschools because they like to go to Disney several times a year and they can't take the kids out of stick-and-brick school for vacations.  Really good reason to homeschool, huh?  

My granddaughter was a nationally-ranked athlete who frequently competed out of the area and quite often out of state in grade school and middle school.  Luckily, she went to a school that was liberal with their excused absences parameters as many of her friends in the sport had to be home-schooled for that reason.  You'll find that most "serious" child athletes have to be homeschooled for that reason.   By the time she was in high school, she was competing only on a collegiate level in order to keep her amateur status protected so as to qualify for a NCAA Div I college scholarship, which she got, thank goodness.


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## AprilT (Nov 4, 2015)

Homeschooling isn't really an issue, it will vary based on the individuals involved as to whether a problem evolves.. Generally many who were, are homeschooled do as well and if not better than the general population on many levels.  They get their socialization in various ways including being active in community activism, they play with neighborhood kids and participate in various other community activities.  Not all, not even most, people who homeschool fall under the extremes which are seen in some headlines pointing out fanaticism.  

Lets not forget some people are extreme introverts anyway and no amount of socialization will change their preferring their own company to the company of others.  Some people go into a cold sweat at the thought of sharing space with others for too long a period of time talk about extremes depending on how one looks at things.  I think for some kids, homeschooling would probably be beneficial under certain circumstances.


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## Warrigal (Nov 4, 2015)

Alexander Graham Bell was home schooled by his nearly deaf mother.


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## Cookie (Nov 4, 2015)

There is also another optionso the regular school model - my son attended an alternative school for a few years and did exceptionally well.  Alternative schools here are also under the Board of Ed, but have a more flexible style of teaching and classes.


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## jujube (Nov 4, 2015)

Then there's the "unschooling" method of home schooling where the child is not "directed" in his/her learning and there is no curriculum.  The child learns what he wants to learn with the belief that he will "want" to learn math, reading, writing, history, geography, etc. and will gravitate there on his own with minimum to none involvement on the part of the parent.  Wouldn't have worked for me......all I wanted to do was read Nancy Drew books and play with my dolls.  I'd be even worse at math than I am and still wouldn't be able to write legibly or know where Poland is on the map.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 5, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> Alexander Graham Bell was home schooled by his nearly deaf mother.



Also home schooled were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, James Garfield, Andrew Jackson, Abe Lincoln, Franklin and Theodore Roosevelt, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Florence Nightingale, Taylor Swift, J.R.R. Tolkien, Emma Watson, Virginia Woolf ...

Tell me THEY are all low-achieving failures with no social skills ...


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## SifuPhil (Nov 5, 2015)

jujube said:


> Then there's the "unschooling" method of home schooling where the child is not "directed" in his/her learning and there is no curriculum.  The child learns what he wants to learn with the belief that he will "want" to learn math, reading, writing, history, geography, etc. and will gravitate there on his own with minimum to none involvement on the part of the parent.  Wouldn't have worked for me......all I wanted to do was read Nancy Drew books and play with my dolls.  I'd be even worse at math than I am and still wouldn't be able to write legibly or know where Poland is on the map.



Yeah, we looked at that approach in the beginning and it just didn't seem the right fit. That being said, we were constrained by the required State syllabus and had to spend most of our time on that. We had precious few hours to let our son do what he wanted, but those hours DID pay off eventually. He always had a love of math, and now he's studying stuff I can't even pronounce let alone grasp.


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## Linda (Nov 5, 2015)

Phil, Your son is doing great and you have every right to be very very proud of him.  Same with George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, James Garfield,  Andrew Jackson, Abe Lincoln, Franklin and Theodore Roosevelt, Wolfgang  Amadeus Mozart, Florence Nightingale, Taylor Swift, J.R.R. Tolkien, Emma  Watson, Virginia Woolf ... and the manager of a local large store who I know very well, there are thousands and maybe MILLIONS of great home schooled persons who fit in well in society and are normal.  But on this forum people speak of what they know personally, I happen to know (Or USED to know, I stay the heck away from them now) more of the weirdo, doomsday, lets stock up on guns, ammo and food, it's us against the world type of people so THAT is what I talk about when I am referring to home schooling. Because that is what I know and I know a LOT of them, we talk about what we know.  All of us on here are like that.  I also know currently some very strict "I won't say the name of the church" people who don't want their kids around worldly children and they home school them.  And UNLESS these children are allowed to socialize some they will grow up to always feel like they are different and don't fit in.  The ones I am referring to the girl (and her mom) have NEVER been allowed to wear pants, only skirts.  So when she is out playing soccer with their church friends (and the parents do have them socialize with other of their faith on the week ends) and all the other girls are in skirts that is fine.  But when she is around (and she is 16 now) other young ladies playing soccer and they are all wearing pants and she isn't, how will she feel??  You know a lot of them will make fun of her.  Of course, that's a religious thing and not necessarily a home school problem as she can't wear make up, watch TV or cut her hair either.  Oh well, never mind, I'm getting off topic here.


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## RadishRose (Nov 5, 2015)

The ONLY thing about home-schooling I feel is too important to miss is daily socialization with peers and different adults (teachers, staff).


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## Linda (Nov 5, 2015)

RadishRose said:


> The ONLY thing about home-schooling I feel is too important to miss is daily socialization with peers and different adults (teachers, staff).


 I agree


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## Underock1 (Nov 5, 2015)

Linda said:


> Phil, Your son is doing great and you have every right to be very very proud of him.  Same with George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, James Garfield,  Andrew Jackson, Abe Lincoln, Franklin and Theodore Roosevelt, Wolfgang  Amadeus Mozart, Florence Nightingale, Taylor Swift, J.R.R. Tolkien, Emma  Watson, Virginia Woolf ... and the manager of a local large store who I know very well, there are thousands and maybe MILLIONS of great home schooled persons who fit in well in society and are normal.  But on this forum people speak of what they know personally, I happen to know (Or USED to know, I stay the heck away from them now) more of the weirdo, doomsday, lets stock up on guns, ammo and food, it's us against the world type of people so THAT is what I talk about when I am referring to home schooling. Because that is what I know and I know a LOT of them, we talk about what we know.  All of us on here are like that.  I also know currently some very strict "I won't say the name of the church" people who don't want their kids around worldly children and they home school them.  And UNLESS these children are allowed to socialize some they will grow up to always feel like they are different and don't fit in.  The ones I am referring to the girl (and her mom) have NEVER been allowed to wear pants, only skirts.  So when she is out playing soccer with their church friends (and the parents do have them socialize with other of their faith on the week ends) and all the other girls are in skirts that is fine.  But when she is around (and she is 16 now) other young ladies playing soccer and they are all wearing pants and she isn't, how will she feel??  You know a lot of them will make fun of her.  Of course, that's a religious thing and not necessarily a home school problem as she can't wear make up, watch TV or cut her hair either.  Oh well, never mind, I'm getting off topic here.



Thank you, Linda. Those are certainly the kids and _*parents*, _that I am talking about. As for most of the famous people mentioned. Most lived in a different time and culture, with a different upbringing. I doubt that any of them were being _deliberately _taught at home never to listen to anyone else because that person may be speaking with the voice of the Devil.


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## Linda (Nov 5, 2015)

I agree Underrock1 but I do see Phil's side of it too.  He and his wife obviously put a lot of thought and love into teaching their son at home and they did a great job, it sounds like.  So maybe he felt someone (me?) was putting down what he had done with his son or even putting down what kind of a person his son has turned out to be.  I get sensitive sometimes about my kids, grand kids, my honey or even, God forbid, myself sometimes too.


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## Cookie (Nov 5, 2015)

I think the school system should not be a 'one size fits all' kind of thing, spitting out a mass produced product that fits into a society of identical clones that can't think for themselves -- which is why there should be other options for educating children.  Home schooling is one such option, alternative schools are another.  We need more options and need to consider children as individual unique people with individual and unique needs.  Individual needs are not often taken into consideration in the school system, unfortunately, no wonder the kids are mad.


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## Underock1 (Nov 5, 2015)

Linda said:


> I agree Underrock1 but I do see Phil's side of it too.  He and his wife obviously put a lot of thought and love into teaching their son at home and they did a great job, it sounds like.  So maybe he felt someone (me?) was putting down what he had done with his son or even putting down what kind of a person his son has turned out to be.  I get sensitive sometimes about my kids, grand kids, my honey or even, God forbid, myself sometimes too.



I agree, Linda. What Phil is talking about and what I am taking about are two different things. I guess I am the one who is off the main topic. The title is all inclusive. Simply "Home Schooling." There are certainly many excellent examples to its credit. I slipped off into a rant about the Evangelical version. They are a hot button issue with me. I honestly think they are responsible for many of the social issues we have in this country.
So; sorry Phil. Your success in raising your son is an irrefutable argument. :thumbsup:


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## SifuPhil (Nov 5, 2015)

Linda, Underock - 

Thanks for clarifying your positions. I never took offense at what either of you said because I also know of many examples - quite scary ones -  where "home-schooling" becomes more like a cult activity. I would certainly never condone that kind of thing, but sadly it DOES go on even to this day.

No, I'm more of the mind of Cookie's post, where in the educational system one size does NOT fit all, and it's good to have alternatives.

And thank you for your kind words about my son, but I can't take too much credit in how he turned out - like a good hunting dog, we just pointed him in the right direction and let him off the leash. 

It was one of those fortuitous things that he would have done well no matter where he was - we just like to think that he did so much better at home. 

Unfortunately, by the time my second son came along my wife and I were totally burned out on the idea of home-schooling him, and he seemed to take to the public schooling much better than my first son, so we were actually happy it turned out that way. Done properly, home-schooling DOES take a massive investment of time and money, something not everyone can afford. 

Funny talking about the religious groups ... I just watched an old episode of _Bonanza_ where one girl in a group of traveling Mormons (I think they were) was thought to be the Devil's Maiden. Gradually the group first shunned her, then stoned her and finally tried to burn her. Dysentery had killed several members of the group and they took this as Her work. She had had her education back East, though, and knew the real cause of the deaths was bad water. But because of their closed minds and superstitious beliefs they wanted to blame her for everything.

Of course, Mr. Cartwright and the boys saved her at the last minute and they finally listened to her advice to boil everything, but it showed the danger of having closed minds and cult-like responses to the world.


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## Underock1 (Nov 5, 2015)

Mr Cartwright where are you?


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## Linda (Nov 5, 2015)

Glad you aren't mad Phil.  I saw the same Bonanza a few months ago as my husband still likes those old reruns.  As far as religious cults go I spent 30 or 35 years in one (They didn't really count me in till I was baptized) but I don't talk about it much as some people take it to mean I am putting down religion or Christianity per say.  And also, I shouldn't be living in the past but looking forward.  That is one reason why these forums are good for me as I can learn how to get along with normal people --- or I guess you guys are normal??


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## Shirley (Nov 5, 2015)

*I am waiting with bated breath for Phil's answer. *:lofl:


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## Warrigal (Nov 5, 2015)

:lofl: me too.


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## Shirley (Nov 5, 2015)

*Phil???????? *


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## SifuPhil (Nov 6, 2015)

Answer to what?!?


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## Shirley (Nov 6, 2015)

Linda said:


> Glad you aren't mad Phil.  I saw the same Bonanza a few months ago as my husband still likes those old reruns.  As far as religious cults go I spent 30 or 35 years in one (They didn't really count me in till I was baptized) but I don't talk about it much as some people take it to mean I am putting down religion or Christianity per say.  And also, I shouldn't be living in the past but looking forward.  That is one reason why these forums are good for me as I can learn how to get along with normal people --- or I guess you guys are normal??




That question.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 6, 2015)

Shirley said:


> That question.



Oh.

I didn't realize it was directed toward me, since I'm the only normal one here.


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## Shirley (Nov 6, 2015)

Naahh, you're unique just like all the rest of us.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 6, 2015)

Shirley said:


> Naahh, you're unique just like all the rest of us.



Oh, Great Buddha's belt buckle, I'm in trouble ... 

Actually that fits right into the public school mantra - "Each of you is unique!"


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## Cookie (Nov 6, 2015)

Since we're long done with our school days and so are our kids and many grandkids too, it really isn't our concern anymore.  I'm confident that the younger generation will figure out what they want for their kids and find ways to make it happen.


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## Underock1 (Nov 6, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Since we're long done with our school days and so are our kids and many grandkids too, it really isn't our concern anymore.  I'm confident that the younger generation will figure out what they want for their kids and find ways to make it happen.



With the exponential explosion and rapid dissemination of knowledge, I think that their kids will figure it out for themselves. Our world, and certainly my world is already long gone. It was a happy place for me. Despite the headlines, and environmental problems ahead, I am optimistic about theirs.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 6, 2015)

Now there are websites such as K12, which offer some sort of synthesis of home-schooling and public schools - wish they had that 20 or so years ago.


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## mitchezz (Nov 7, 2015)

I only survived parenthood because the kids were out of the house from 9 to 3 40 weeks of the year. Homeschooling???...........I dof me cap.


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