# How Many Of You Veterans Were Commissioned Officers?



## HiDesertHal (Jan 11, 2018)

I'll take anything from a 2nd Lieutenant to a General, or anything from an Ensign to an Admiral.

(I was an enlisted Man )

Hal


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## Falcon (Jan 11, 2018)

First Lieutenant.


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## HiDesertHal (Jan 11, 2018)

Falcon, I knew you were an Officer because you were a Bomber Pilot in WW2!

Good job!
Hal


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## Manatee (Jan 11, 2018)

Petty officer 2/c, paygrade e-5


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## Mike (Jan 12, 2018)

I was a Senior Aircraftsman in the Royal Air Force, (Enlisted).

Later in life when working an o Government job and flying in a
RAF Plane, I was a civilian graded as a "Captain", Army rank.

Mike.


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## oldman (Jan 14, 2018)

I graduated college before entering the Marines. When I enlisted, I was supposed to attend OCS, but my papers and those in charge of assigning college grads to their posotions and deployments had everything screwed up. I eventually ended up being a Second Lt., but that did not keep me from going to Vietnam and in combat. I was shifted around like a dog trying to catch his tail. I wanted to fly, but was told that I was too tall, which I found out later that was a bunch of b.s.


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## TonyK (Jan 14, 2018)

Semper Fi oldman! 

Several years after my tour of duty as an enlisted man in the Marines was up, I joined the Army Reserves. There was a program that allowed college graduates to automatically become officers once a few months of BS was completed. So I completed it, and lo and behold our Company Commander sent for us and told us that the Army adopted a new rule and some of us were deemed too old to become officers. I was pissed and resigned. But that's not the end of the story...my Civil Affairs unit was soon dispatched to Kuwait where it tried to help run the city for a few years...then they were sent to Afghanistan where they served two tours of duty. I can't imagine what I would have done had I been forced to leave my family behind and serve in a hostile environment for who knows how many years. 

So my answer is no I was never an officer and am glad about it.


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## OAG (Jan 17, 2018)

Enlisted 1958 E1 to SFC E7 in 7 years; appointed WO1 in RVN 1966, retired CW4 in 1977. 21+ years total service. Now in 38th year of Military Retirement. High School Dropout but completed Bachelors degree while in the Army.


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## jkingrph (Jun 24, 2018)

Basic training Dec 68-Mar 69,  two months OT hold then 3 months OCS. Ten years active as USAF officer.  Active Reserve 90-97, active for 80 something days for Desert Storm.  Made Maj during that outing.


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## Keesha (Jun 24, 2018)

My husband was in the Canadian Military for 7 years.
( not sure if that counts )


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## DGM (Jun 29, 2018)

oldman said:


> I graduated college before entering the Marines. When I enlisted, I was supposed to attend OCS, but my papers and those in charge of assigning college grads to their posotions and deployments had everything screwed up. I eventually ended up being a Second Lt., but that did not keep me from going to Vietnam and in combat. I was shifted around like a dog trying to catch his tail. I wanted to fly, but was told that I was too tall, which I found out later that was a bunch of b.s.



Glad you got home!  Survival rate for platoon leaders was horrible.


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## Pecos (Aug 18, 2019)

I was enlisted for 9 1/2 years, spent 3 years as a CWO, and the rest of my 31 years as a commissioned officer.


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## Musket104 (Sep 19, 2019)

Major. 20 years USAF: Active, Reserve & Air Nat'l Guard. The Guard was the most fun!


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## Trade (Sep 19, 2019)

I was enlisted. And I hate officers. Arrogant bunch of worthless overpaid Alpha Hotels.


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## Lc jones (Sep 19, 2019)

My husband was a captain in the United States Army, he was an army ranger. Hoooah!


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## Trade (Sep 19, 2019)

My oldest son retired as a Master Sergeant in the U.S. Army. He was a Green Beret (18-Delta) with 5th Special Forces Group.


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## jerry old (Oct 2, 2019)

Trade:
The application of names shift during years, have no idea what E-8's are called today.
In my time 63-66 it was 'War Hog,'  'First Pig,' also 'Curly Tail
stop, can't remember


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## Morgan62 (Oct 4, 2019)

Royal Corps of Engineers with Queens Lancashire Brigade Electronics Communications specialist not a commissioned officer but served Falkland wars during 1982 to 1986


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## 911 (Oct 5, 2019)

jerry r. garner said:


> Trade:
> The application of names shift during years, have no idea what E-8's are called today.
> In my time 63-66 it was 'War Hog,'  'First Pig,' also 'Curly Tail
> stop, can't remember


E8 could be a First Sergeant.


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## Keesha (Oct 5, 2019)

Trade said:


> I was enlisted. And I hate officers. Arrogant bunch of worthless overpaid Alpha Hotels.


Wow.


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## 911 (Oct 5, 2019)

TonyK said:


> Semper Fi oldman!
> 
> Several years after my tour of duty as an enlisted man in the Marines was up, I joined the Army Reserves. There was a program that allowed college graduates to automatically become officers once a few months of BS was completed. So I completed it, and lo and behold our Company Commander sent for us and told us that the Army adopted a new rule and some of us were deemed too old to become officers. I was pissed and resigned. But that's not the end of the story...my Civil Affairs unit was soon dispatched to Kuwait where it tried to help run the city for a few years...then they were sent to Afghanistan where they served two tours of duty. I can't imagine what I would have done had I been forced to leave my family behind and serve in a hostile environment for who knows how many years.
> 
> So my answer is no I was never an officer and am glad about it.



Believe it or not, we had a few fellows in our platoon that were “drafted” by the Army, but then were able to become a Marine. Not sure of the specifics of how that happened, but it did. I saw their paperwork. Strange things went on during that war.


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## DaveA (Oct 5, 2019)

My view, as a lowly Radarman 3rd Class, was that commissioned officers came in the same mix as enlisted men.  Some good, some so-so, and a few that were jerks.  IMHO the career officers were a step up from the reserves and more uniform in their attitude towards enlisted men.


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## Trade (Oct 5, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Wow.



Dividing the Military into Officers and Enlisted is an anachronism that should be done away with. It creates a class based society not unlike that of ancient Rome where you had the Patricians and the Plebians. Or like in Medieval times with Royalty and commoners. 

The Military should adopt a system like the government has for civilian employees where they have just a straight up ladder going from  GS-1 to GS-15. You could call it MS-1 to MS-15. MS standing for Military Service. 

That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it.


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## Keesha (Oct 5, 2019)

Trade said:


> Dividing the Military into Officers and Enlisted is an anachronism that should be done away with. It creates a class based society not unlike that of ancient Rome where you had the Patricians and the Plebians. Or like in Medieval times with Royalty and commoners.
> 
> The Military should adopt a system like the government has for civilian employees where they have just a straight up ladder going from  GS-1 to GS-15. You could call it MS-1 to MS-15. MS standing for Military Service.
> 
> That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it.



Trade, I personally have no idea how the military is run but since you went to all the trouble to type this out for  me, I read it out to my husband who used to be in the military and this is what he said word for word. 

“ Thats f””king crazy. That’s just a person with a huge chip on their shoulder cause he had to work beneath someone else and didn’t like it but guess what.....Thats the way the military works and it works. People who can’t handle it shouldn’t be in the military.’

My ‘wow’ was more because you whine more than a woman.

That’s ‘my opinion’ and I’m sticking to it.


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## jerry old (Oct 5, 2019)

911 said:


> Believe it or not, we had a few fellows in our platoon that were “drafted” by the Army, but then were able to become a Marine. Not sure of the specifics of how that happened, but it did. I saw their paperwork. Strange things went on during that war.
> Indeed, had no idea that all drafted people were not put in the army-it happened; had a kid from my hometown placed in Marines.  I wonder if
> the navy used draftee's? Goggle will tell me
> 
> ...


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## Keesha (Oct 5, 2019)

Thinking this over, I apologize Trade. 
I don’t know what you went through in the military or anyone else for that matter. All I know is that there are a lot of men and women who join and thank goodness that they do or there would be nobody protecting us. Its something I doubt I could do and I have admirable respect for all men & women that do.


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## norman (Oct 5, 2019)

Falcon said:


> First Lieutenant.


Falcon, just curious and this might be a NUN'YA, but how old are you?


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## Keesha (Oct 5, 2019)

norman said:


> Falcon, just curious and this might be a NUN'YA, but how old are you?


Falcon left us when we switched software but I’m pretty sure on  his last birthday he turned 95 and for a 95 year old man, he was really with it.


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## jerry old (Oct 5, 2019)

Etymology of casualty per Wiktionary:
7 definition and usage 
first appearance, middle French-an unfortunate event-I would think being killed qualifies.
The military certainly needs a term toooooo  inform general population a 'bunch of killed guys.'

The term *casualty* is sometimes used to mean “a killed person”; in more careful use this is referred to as a _fatality_, and *casualty* instead means “killed or injured”.


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## Pecos (Oct 5, 2019)

Trade said:


> I was enlisted. And I hate officers. Arrogant bunch of worthless overpaid Alpha Hotels.


How were the senior enlisted (E-7's, 8's and 9's) in the units where you served?


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## jerry old (Oct 5, 2019)

Sgt Brown E-8, 6'5', 320 lbs (yea, 40-50  pounds of gut, but still an imposing figure) voice like a mega-phone, spooky, laid groundwork
of fear.  Known as  15 Brown  (propensity to recommend Article 15, for all offenses!)
Knew E-6 who served as secretary to Bn Commander stated, 'Brown is the best politician in battalion, has, old man (Lt. Col) eating out of  his hand.  He was also known as First Pig, War Hog.. On Alerts he had fits of screaming, shouting 'War boys, war that's where were going.
Yes it was all a projected image, but very effective.
When he had his screaming fit, we waited for him to fall to ground in a seizure, foam at mouth...

Had great platoon sgt for 12-13, months, he rotated out, replaced by a crazed sgt that made entire platoon's life miserable.
Of note, some of the e-5 and e-6's were decent guys, however when the crazed sgt came aboard they all fell into line immediately,
became as crazed as he was, all projected behavior to make platoon sgt happy
"Reup, we'll give you another stripe," Mercy, where do I sign...


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## Olivia (Oct 5, 2019)

Keesha said:


> "...Thats the way the military works and it works. People who can’t handle it shouldn’t be in the military.’



Oh, you mean like the draft dodgers who fled to Canada? 

*Canadian*_ immigration statistics show that 20,000 to 30,000 *draft*-eligible American men *came to Canada* as immigrants *during the Vietnam era*. The BBC stated that "as *many* as 60,000 young American men dodged the *draft*." _


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## Keesha (Oct 5, 2019)

Olivia said:


> Oh, you mean like the draft dodgers who fled to Canada?
> 
> *Canadian*_ immigration statistics show that 20,000 to 30,000 *draft*-eligible American men *came to Canada* as immigrants *during the Vietnam era*. The BBC stated that "as *many* as 60,000 young American men dodged the *draft*." _



To be honest Olivia, I don’t really know much about the military or wars that went on. My husband on the other hand could respond better to this question. 

I did however know of a man who was a security guard at the apartment I lived at and he openly admitted to being a draft dodger from the US. My husband didn’t like him for this very reason alone. He stance is that’s its your duty to serve your country and only cowards ran. At the time I hated everything that had to do with the war but I’ve since grown up. 

Correction : my husband says that he wasn’t a draft dodger. Apparently he was a deserter who joined the military and didn’t like where he was being sent so fled which my man claims is far worse. 

60,000 is a lot of dodgers. I’m not sure what to say except I’m glad I wasn’t recruited. I’d hate war.


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## Pecos (Oct 5, 2019)

Jerry, great story and I got a solid chuckle out of it.

All of the E-7's and 8's at my first duty station were really great, solid performers, and strong techs. The two that I worked closely with were brilliant. One went on to become a College Professor and the other became a Bush Pilot/Gold Prospector in Alaska. Over my career, I was stationed with both of them twice. They set a high bar and taught me what a good Chief Petty Officer should be.

My immediate boss at my second duty station was simply pathetic. Poor leadership, no technical skills and he hated my guts from day one. I made E-6 there anyway. For his second career he groomed poodles.

All of the senior enlisted at my third (non-school) duty station were reasonably good. Our E-9 was a wonderful older guy who had been in WWII and came back on active duty for the Korean War. He was also independently wealthy and very generous. Periodically he would come down to my shop and suggest that we have another party, and he would like more lobster like we had at the last one. Out would come the wallet and lots of moldy $20 bills were pressed into my hand. What sailor wouldn't love him? He was a personal friend of Senator Barry Goldwater. Our Officers paid very close attention to anything he had to say.  I made E-7 there and really enjoyed that grade.

At my fourth duty station I had the pleasure of working for the same Master Chief (E-9) from my first duty station. This guy made E-9 in 14 years. I got picked up for Warrant Officer at this duty station a few months later and was transferred out.

Over the next 21 years as I advanced to Commander (O-5), I had a lot of senior enlisted guys/gals work for me. Some of them were people that I had once been junior to, and several worked for me at repeated duty stations. Having poor senior enlisted folks is just as bad as having poor commissioned officers. It is generally easier to get rid of the officer than the senior enlisted guy. I wound up blocking a number of promotions after learning what jerks they were. I also forced two of them to retire, one for harassing junior women and the other for being an all around turd.

I sat on the CPO (E-7) selection board in Washington DC one year and was blown away by the quality and accomplishments of many of the E-6's whose records we were reviewing. Some of them could have gone directly to CWO if I had been able to make that happen. My section (me and two E-9's) looked at over 2500 records across 9 specialties. We wished that we could have promoted more of them, but we had a quota. I was there for six weeks from 6AM until 9PM six days a week until we finished. 

When we finished a specialty, I had to brief the Rear Admiral on the  records of the last three people we selected and the top three of the ones we rejected. The candidates had the option to send us additional documentation that might be missing from their official records or that might sway our decision. We got hundreds of pounds of this stuff every day. One goofy sailor sent me a picture of himself when he was a baby. 

We saw records of people who had no business being promoted and I like to think that we weeded them out.

When we were finished, I pulled my own enlisted record and asked the two Master Chiefs if I would be selected under the new criteria. They informed me that I probably would have been, but "you would not have been one of the front runners."
And that ends this long tale.


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## Trade (Oct 6, 2019)

Keesha said:


> 60,000 is a lot of dodgers. I’m not sure what to say except I’m glad I wasn’t recruited. I’d hate war.



I'm very much anti-war too. But I'm still pissed at Jimmy Carter for pardoning those draft dodgers. If I had been dictator I would have had them shot as soon as they set foot back in the U.S.


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## Pecos (Oct 6, 2019)

DaveA said:


> My view, as a lowly Radarman 3rd Class, was that commissioned officers came in the same mix as enlisted men.  Some good, some so-so, and a few that were jerks.  IMHO the career officers were a step up from the reserves and more uniform in their attitude towards enlisted men.


Your assessment has a lot of merit..
You may have been a fairly junior member in the CIC (Combat Information Center), but never, never lowly. As a Radarman you were right at the tip of your skipper's combat spear. While he may or may not have ever mentioned it to you personally, trust me when I say that he understood how strongly dependent he was on you. So Junior yes, but Lowly never.


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## Trade (Oct 6, 2019)




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## 911 (Oct 7, 2019)

Musket104 said:


> Major. 20 years USAF: Active, Reserve & Air Nat'l Guard. The Guard was the most fun!


The 193rd Special Ops Wing is located here in Harrisburg, PA. I have toured the site a few times. My first time there was to arrest a Sgt. for rape. He was eventually cleared and was able to return to duty.


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## 911 (Oct 7, 2019)

I am also against wars, unless the U.S. is under attack and then even at my age, I would do whatever I was able to help with the effort. 

When Carter pardoned the draft dodgers that fled the country, I found it to be very upsetting. That just was not fair to those of us that served. My best friend at the time was drafted, but failed his physical. He was reclassified as 1-Y, I think. He knew that he would be recalled for another physical, so he tried to enlist with other branches, but was denied because he had failed the draft physical. I told him that he should not feel bad, but he did all the time until his death last year. 

Guys that were married with children or guys that failed their physical I have no qualms with. We lost some 58,000 men in Vietnam. Maybe they should have ran. I often wonder if any of the runners felt guilty? I also wonder if any of them ever admitted to being a runner to Canada?


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## Keesha (Oct 7, 2019)

911 said:


> Guys that were married with children or guys that failed their physical I have no qualms with. We lost some 58,000 men in Vietnam. Maybe they should have ran. I often wonder if any of the runners felt guilty? I also wonder if any of them ever admitted to being a runner to Canada?



Who knows. Finding out what ever happened to the 60,000 who fled to Canada would be interesting to know. It’s a horrible betrayal to their  own country, but I still don’t think you people needed to lose 60,000 more by shooting them as punishment.


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## Trade (Oct 7, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Who knows. Finding out what ever happened to the 60,000 who fled to Canada would be interesting to know. It’s a horrible betrayal to their  own country, but I still don’t think you people needed to lose 60,000 more by shooting them as punishment.



Relax Keesha. I wouldn't have had them all shot. I'm OK with any black guys that dodged the draft. I think Mohammed Ali said it best when he said "No Viet Cong ever called me ******". In my opinion black guys don't owe this country anything except a good hard kick in the nuts as payback for all the crap they have had to deal with. It's all those cowardly entitled middle class white hippie kids that I would have had shot.


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## 911 (Oct 7, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Who knows. Finding out what ever happened to the 60,000 who fled to Canada would be interesting to know. It’s a horrible betrayal to their  own country, but I still don’t think you people needed to lose 60,000 more by shooting them as punishment.



What do you mean "you people?" I didn't send them into war. Besides, they weren't shot as punishment. They were killed fighting in a war that our government thought we needed to help the underdogs with against an oppressive Government. The 58,000+ that were killed fought believing that they were helping a small country overcome a communist dictatorship and to remain free. That didn't work out and with China and Russia aiding the oppressors, there was probably no way we were going to win that war without complete devastation of both countries (N. & S. Vietnam), which would have resulted in the loss of; God only knows how many lives. 

Someone once asked why the U.S. just didn't fight that war from the air and it would have been over quickly. Maybe yes, maybe no, but when you drop bombs, you can't choose who is going to die and who isn't. Even so, when fighting with ground troops, there is still going to be collateral damage with loss of life to civilians. Dropping a nuclear bomb would have had long-lasting affects for the U.S., both politically and economically. 

The U.S. probably shouldn't have ever gotten involved in it from the start, but we were just trying to do the right thing. Our government had the auspicious idea that once the North saw our might, they would cave and leave the South alone, but we were wrong. With allies like China and Russia wanting to kick our ass for years, it was only practical for them to jump in and help their neighbor and friend.


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## Trade (Oct 7, 2019)

Keesha said:


> “ Thats f””king crazy. That’s just a person with a huge chip on their shoulder cause he had to work beneath someone else and didn’t like it but guess what.....Thats the way the military works and it works. People who can’t handle it shouldn’t be in the military.’



Well Keeha you can tell your hubby that if he feels like disrespecting a Vietnam Veteran he can get his ass down here to Mobile, Alabama and do it to my face like a man. 

And as for that "Chip" on my shoulder...........


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## Keesha (Oct 7, 2019)

911 said:


> What do you mean "you people?" I didn't send them into war. Besides, they weren't shot as punishment. They were killed fighting in a war that our government thought we needed to help the underdogs with against an oppressive Government. The 58,000+ that were killed fought believing that they were helping a small country overcome a communist dictatorship and to remain free. That didn't work out and with China and Russia aiding the oppressors, there was probably no way we were going to win that war without complete devastation of both countries (N. & S. Vietnam), which would have resulted in the loss of; God only knows how many lives.
> 
> Someone once asked why the U.S. just didn't fight that war from the air and it would have been over quickly. Maybe yes, maybe no, but when you drop bombs, you can't choose who is going to die and who isn't. Even so, when fighting with ground troops, there is still going to be collateral damage with loss of life to civilians. Dropping a nuclear bomb would have had long-lasting affects for the U.S., both politically and economically.
> 
> The U.S. probably shouldn't have ever gotten involved in it from the start, but we were just trying to do the right thing. Our government had the auspicious idea that once the North saw our might, they would cave and leave the South alone, but we were wrong. With allies like China and Russia wanting to kick our ass for years, it was only practical for them to jump in and help their neighbor and friend.


Wait a minute. Nothing I said was meant as criticism in the least. Like I’ve mentioned throughout this entire thread, I don’t know much of anything about the war, nor have I ever claimed to. 

I was basically agreeing with you. 

The only thing I strongly disagreed with was trade’s comment about shooting all 60,000 people who fled to Canada and that all officers were AH’s.

That’s it. 
All this other stuff you added goes way over my head and I don’t even understand why you added it or why trade felt the need to add what he did. 

I never once criticized anyone in this entire thread except for trades comments. 

The only thing I did was write word for word what my husband said which I don’t even know enough about to either agree with or not. 

Anyway if members are going to start getting hostile here, I’m out.


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## Keesha (Oct 7, 2019)

Trade said:


> Well Keeha you can tell your hubby that if he feels like disrespecting a Vietnam Veteran he can get his ass down here to Mobile, Alabama and do it to my face like a man.
> 
> And as for that "Chip" on my shoulder...........



You tell him yourself. 





Trade said:


> Well Keeha you can tell your hubby that if he feels like disrespecting a Vietnam Veteran he can get his ass down here to Mobile, Alabama and do it to my face like a man.
> 
> And as for that "Chip" on my shoulder...........


You can tell him yourself trade while you’re shooting the 60,000 people you’re upset with. 

I don’t personally really care.


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## Trade (Oct 7, 2019)

Keesha said:


> You can tell him yourself trade while you’re shooting the 60,000 people you’re upset with.
> I don’t personally really care.



You just don't understand the use of hyperbole Keesha.


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## StarSong (Oct 7, 2019)

That war continues to divide people.  As evidenced in the comments above.


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## 911 (Oct 7, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Wait a minute. Nothing I said was meant as criticism in the least. Like I’ve mentioned throughout this entire thread, I don’t know much of anything about the war, nor have I ever claimed to.
> 
> I was basically agreeing with you.
> 
> ...



Wasn't being hostile, just wanted a clarification of what you were referring to.


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## Trade (Oct 7, 2019)

StarSong said:


> That war continues to divide people.  As evidenced in the comments above.



That's because nothing has changed. We're still doing the same crap. We have now been in Afghanistan for 18 years. And what have we accomplished?

https://fox17.com/news/local/pentag...84JUm7brtvZ5HeICRcOwJp2lDjBI9PPgYGON01XhTgYj0


> NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WZTV) — Pentagon officials have identified the U.S. service member killed in action in Afghanistan this week as a Tennessee man.
> 
> Green Beret SFC Jeremy W. Griffin, 40, of Greenbrier was killed on Monday by "small arms fire when his unit was engaged in combat operations in Wardek Province," according to a news release from the Department of Defense.
> 
> ...


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## StarSong (Oct 7, 2019)

Trade said:


> That's because nothing has changed. We're still doing the same crap. We have now been in Afghanistan for 18 years. *And what have we accomplished?*



Very little.  
This had been another unwinnable war costly in US lives, limbs, and mental stability.  Plus plenty of tax dollars and reputation on our side.  Horrific civilian casualties, countless destruction to homes, buildings and infrastructure, and the subsequent rise of even more widespread hatred for Westerners in the region.
Then there was the Iraq "weapons of mass destruction" debacle.


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## Gary O' (Oct 7, 2019)

StarSong said:


> This had been another unwinnable war costly in US lives, limbs, and mental stability. Plus plenty of tax dollars and reputation on our side. Horrific civilian casualties, countless destruction to homes, buildings and infrastructure, and the subsequent rise of even more widespread hatred for Westerners in the region.


Ah, but we get to play with our toys


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## StarSong (Oct 7, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> Ah, but we get to play with our toys


A major hazard of possessing such toys is the almost irresistible urge to play with them.


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## 911 (Oct 7, 2019)

We (the U.S.) have the ability to end these so-called conflicts in a matter of moments, so why we spread it out over time is beyond me. 

Of course, we all know the answer to that question.


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## Trade (Oct 7, 2019)

911 said:


> We (the U.S.) have the ability to end these so-called conflicts in a matter of moments, so why we spread it out over time is beyond me.
> 
> Of course, we all know the answer to that question.



If I were dictator I would pull every American out of there as fast as possible. At Dunkirk it took 9 days to evacuate 338,000 troops. That's about 37,500 a day. Surely we can match that. Since we only have 24,000 troops in Afghanistan, we should be finished in a little under 16 hours.


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## squatting dog (Oct 7, 2019)

911 said:


> We (the U.S.) have the ability to end these so-called conflicts in a matter of moments, so why we spread it out over time is beyond me.
> 
> Of course, we all know the answer to that question.




Quick answer... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for some people. Also, I agree with you and others about a draft dodger. You don't want to fight for your country, fine, but I come from the old school where, you made your bed, you lie in it. They should never have been allowed to return to the US.
As far as Vietnam, I don't know about anyone else here, but, where I fought (the iron triangle), all we did was fight to take over a section of country, then withdraw and hand it over to the ARVN troops. About a month or so later, we were back in the same piece of real estate fighting and dying to take it back because the ARVN soldiers (maybe not all, but enough) had run away.
Definitely soured me on a war we weren't allowed to win.

Edit. I still love this country, but, it's getting harder to accept all that is happening to it.


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## johndoe (Oct 7, 2019)

The last few posts seem to be a call for isolationism. Just wondering how that would work out. Not for or against, just wondering. We are greatly entangled and George Washington warned against it but here we are.


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## Rainee (Oct 11, 2019)

Sorry to hear that Falcon has left here he was a great mate .. so cluey for his age as well .


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## Trade (Oct 11, 2019)

squatting dog said:


> Definitely soured me on a war we weren't allowed to win.




There was no way we were going to win that war. Think about it. We had primarily draftees that were sent 8,000 miles from home to fight. When I was there everyone had a short timer's calendar where we were counting the days till we could get the Hell out of there. And the people we were trying to help? The ARVN's? What kind of person throws in with foreign invaders? Opportunists and cowards that are going to cut and run as soon as things get tough.

On the other hand who were we fighting against? Hard core mother truckers who were fighting for their country and had home field advantage. People that were willing to load up a bicycle with hundreds of pounds of supplies and push it hundreds of miles on the Ho Chi Min trail in order to supply their fighters. The only way you can beat people like that is to kill every last one of them because they are not going to give up. And then you had the Russians and the Chinese. More than happy to sit on the sidelines and watch us bleed, but more than ready to jump in on the side of North Vietnam if it push came to shove.


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## Pepper (Oct 11, 2019)

Excellent summation trade.


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## jerry old (Oct 24, 2019)

That was a stupid war, engineered by stupid people fought by kids that were too damn young to understand what was going on.  It was a conflict understood by none, it remains so.  
I've educated myself on the Vietnam of the 1920-30's, it was a mess then and only got worse.

(Opinion, I cannot help but believe that chaos aided the French in their role as a colonial power.)

I don't think the ambiguity of Vietnam will ever be resolved until this generation is in the ground.
I have learned that the soldiers of this nation are to defend this nation-that is their primary purpose for being.
We became the world's policemen in and after Korea, look at the results.
The events we 'stick our noses into' are beyond number: pull up the # of military bases throughout the world-unbelievable.


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## Pepper (Oct 24, 2019)

jerry r. garner said:


> I don't think the ambiguity of Vietnam will ever be resolved until this generation is in the ground.


In the mid-nineties, when my son was studying Vietnam, he asked me when my generation would stop arguing about the war.  I told him when we're all dead.


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## Lewkat (Apr 28, 2020)

I received a direct commission in 1954 as a 2nd Lt. in the U.S.A.F.  I was a new registered nurse and while the Korean War had come to an alleged truce, I was still considered a Korean War Veteran.  I receive and automatic promotion to 1st Lt. 18 months after I entered the Air Force.  I served a year in Texas and during that time became a flight nurse after attending school in Montgomery, Alabama.  I then was assigned to France for 2 years, serving as a flight nurse for my second year.  It was an interesting experience and I was discharged, used my G.I. Bill to obtain a Master's Degree in Psychology.  During this time I was alerted to standby for the Bay of Pigs, then the Berlin Wall and the Cuban Missile Crisis.  The last time was when JFK was assassinated.  I had gotten married and was pregnant when my 10 yrs. of reserve status ended, but my husband, sadly, who was a fighter pilot was called to action in Viet Nam and was shot down over the South China Sea.


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## jerry old (Apr 28, 2020)

Raise a cup of coffee to you Lewkat, and a slow salute to your spouse.
Love the nurses, nothing like a female nurse that you can share
gentle words with.        
"I hurt."
"Hang on baby, I'm coming."


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## Llynn (Apr 28, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> I received a direct commission in 1954 as a 2nd Lt. in the U.S.A.F.  I was a new registered nurse and while the Korean War had come to an alleged truce, I was still considered a Korean War Veteran.  I receive and automatic promotion to 1st Lt. 18 months after I entered the Air Force.  I served a year in Texas and during that time became a flight nurse after attending school in Montgomery, Alabama.  I then was assigned to France for 2 years, serving as a flight nurse for my second year.  It was an interesting experience and I was discharged, used my G.I. Bill to obtain a Master's Degree in Psychology.  During this time I was alerted to standby for the Bay of Pigs, then the Berlin Wall and the Cuban Missile Crisis.  The last time was when JFK was assassinated.  I had gotten married and was pregnant when my 10 yrs. of reserve status ended, but my husband, sadly, who was a fighter pilot was called to action in Viet Nam and was shot down over the South China Sea.


My sincere respect and a Navy salute, Mam.


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## DannyDoughboy (Apr 28, 2020)

911 said:


> Believe it or not, we had a few fellows in our platoon that were “drafted” by the Army, but then were able to become a Marine. Not sure of the specifics of how that happened, but it did. I saw their paperwork. Strange things went on during that war.



I remember that happening at the induction center, Indianapolis!  Since I was volunteer Army, it didn't affect me, but they went down the row of certain groups, tapped out every 5th one, and this selection process, those chaps were headed to become a Marine!  Remember it well!


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## jerry old (Apr 28, 2020)

Marines, navy drafted personnel in Vietnam.  They had no choice, man power required it.

(The army has the worst chow off all the services.  They started
Battalion in early sixties,  mess halls, with one officer in charge-he ordered the supplies, otherwise he disappeared.  long, long lines, the cooks had no direct supervision, served and  cooked as they choose-slop.

Navy and air force has best chow, it was wonderful to eat in an air force mess: real food!

Peculiar how good chow can color your perspective.
damn army!


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## Lewkat (Apr 28, 2020)

Prior to the A.F. becoming independent from the Army, the food was, well, Army.  It was long known that the Navy had the best chow.  My grandfather was a CWO4 in the Marine Corps and he raved about the Navy Mess.  By the time I got into the military, the Air Force was long independent, at least 7 years, and we were called the ladies' and gentlemen's service and considered spoiled beyond the pale.  Not so, but yes the food was terrific.


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