# Mutilating their own bodies



## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

It may not be happening where you live, but I live right up against the Mexican border, in the very heart of Hispanic California, and every day I see hundreds and hundreds of people, both male and female, who have mutilated their bodies with dozens of facial piercings, and tattoos.  They are even, if you can imagine it, completely covering every square inch of their faces with tattoos.

Some of the most bizarre things I've seen are, ear lobes stretched out to the point where a silver dollar can be passed through. Into these opening I see various kinds of "rings" and solid "plugs". I see quite large "nose rings", the kind you might expect on cattle. Tongue, cheek, eye-brow and lip piercings are very common. And so are a dozen or more ear piercings, along the outer rim of the ear which have metal ornamentation. 

I see tattoos all up and down their legs and arms and, where the skin is exposed, on their backs and chests. Yes even the women. It was bad enough to see head hair dyed bright purple, green, fire-engine red, and electric pink. Worse are the disgusting dread-locks. But this newer thing defies, civilized imagination.

In a single generation we have gone from normal healthy looking people to savages right out of primitive societies.

It turns my stomach. Bizarre does not even begin to describe it.  What are they thinking ?:nightmare::dunno:

If I was still running a business there is no possible way I'd hire any of them,


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## hearlady (Feb 10, 2018)

There's various reasons. 
I think one is addiction. I truly think some people become addicted to the process/pain of tattooing.
Gang type branding in and out of prison.
Ritual 
Memorial to a dead loved ones.
Art, self expression.

 I had a poster in my office at one time with a new bride dancing with her father. Very beautiful dress, dad proudly smiling. One day I noticed she had those holes in her ears with plugs for earrings. Big ones. I thought they were just big earrings.


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## Vega_Lyra (Feb 10, 2018)

We live in a decaying world...


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## hearlady (Feb 10, 2018)

Some of it looks tribal.


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## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

hearlady said:


> Some of it looks tribal.




Exactly ! Very tribal.


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## Sunny (Feb 10, 2018)

Is it worldwide?  I wonder if there is as much of it in Europe or Asia.


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## retiredtraveler (Feb 10, 2018)

I





> _.....it turns my stomach. Bizarre does not even begin to describe it.  What are they thinking ?  If I was still running a business there is no possible way I'd hire any of them..._



I'm with you. I'm really turned off by women with tats. Of course, at my age and having been married for 46 years, a moot point. But I'm with you in that I would not hire someone with tats. I know that a lot of people who get them are smart enough to place them where they can't be seen while dressed (avoiding the potential hiring issue).


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## Don M. (Feb 10, 2018)

I suppose there's nothing wrong with a discrete tattoo that can be easily covered with clothing.  However, when I see someone with that Trash all over their bodies, I wonder if they have any "self esteem".


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## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Is it worldwide?  I wonder if there is as much of it in Europe or Asia.



I can't speak about Europe but in my travels in Asia, I did not see any facial tattoos or extreme body piercing. A few men had small tattoos on their arms and the women had none at all.  The Yakusa, Japanese gangsters, are of course famous for their body tattoos, but if full clothed the tattoos do not show.


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## Robusta (Feb 10, 2018)

I don't get it either.  I don't really care about body and arm tattoos, but face and neck are taboo in my book.
In the early 70's I had a few dates with a very accommodating young lady. She had a very large parrot on her torso. Really hot.
She really liked me, but her boyfriend and his brother were in prison for tying a guy to a tree and shooting him.
Call me chicken,BUT--------------


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## Buckeye (Feb 10, 2018)

Once again, I find myself as the lone wolf on here.  I have a 8 to 9 inch tat on each upper arm (hula girl on the right, mermaid on the left), plus a couple of smaller ones on my chest (4 aces on the left side, pair of dice on the right).  I got them all after I retired.  Mermaid was my 70th birthday present to myself, and the two on the chest were my 71st present to myself.  (Got the hula girl when I bought my Harley.  Seemed like the right thing to do)

And yes, some tats are indeed tribal - saw a lot of those on the Big Island.  And yes again,  IMHO some folks overdo it.  But, once again, I don't see it as a moral failure.   

If you don't want one, don't get one.


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## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

*Not even if she was the last woman on earth !*


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## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

*Ladies, can you imagine kissing one of those guys ?*


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## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

Vega_Lyra said:


> We live in a decaying world...



*I don't know if it's possible to sink any lower. What next, cannibalism ?*






retiredtraveler said:


> I
> 
> I'm with you. I'm really turned off by women with tats. Of course, at my age and having been married for 46 years, a moot point. But I'm with you in that I would not hire someone with tats. I know that a lot of people who get them are smart enough to place them where they can't be seen while dressed (avoiding the potential hiring issue).




*​I totally agree. I would not go any where near a woman with tattoos.  If she has no respect for herself then I sure don't have any respect for her.  *


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 10, 2018)

IMO it's a personal decision for an adult to make.

I do feel bad when I see young kids with _jailhouse_ or _street_ tattoos.

I worked with a man years ago that had inappropriate tattoos on the knuckles of both hands.  He acquired the tattoos when he was 13 or 14 and they caused people in the corporate world to judge him and his ability based on his past behavior.  He tried to have the tattoos removed but our insurance carrier refused to consider it as a medical expense.  The story found its way to one of our senior executives and he was able to get the insurance company to change its position and pay for the removal.

Like all things in life tattoos work for some and not for others.  We will always have a few folks who take things to the extreme.

Tattoos and piercings are definitely out for your old Aunt Bea.   I intend to leave this world with the same number of holes I had when I arrived!


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## Victor (Feb 10, 2018)

Comparing these heavily tattooed people to primitives insults the primitives.
They do not have the technology to tattoo themselves properly. Their tattoos
consist of organic substances and some colored stones or dirt.


Thread misses the point: tattoos are perceived to be very cool. If they were
not considered Cool and stylish they would not be so popular in the west.
I have seen many tattoos even on black skin--that are difficult to see,.

It is the idea that I am cooler than you. Tattoos increase their self esteem.


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## RadishRose (Feb 10, 2018)

How about the "mono dread"?


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## Wren (Feb 10, 2018)

The middle one looks ok, he could sweep the floor as he walked about ...


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 10, 2018)

I have a small tattoo in light pastel colors that can only be seen if I wear a french-cut bikini, the kind with the high leg openings, so it's been decades since anyone has seen it but my husband.  I like it a lot and don't regret getting it.  My husband doesn't have any tattoos, and neither of us have piercings, except for one hole in each of my ears for pierced earrings....but it's been so long since I wore earrings, the holes are probably closed up by now.

I don't care for excessive tattoos or overdone piercings on other people, but it's their choice and I try not to judge them, just a matter of taste.  I'm sure there's a lot of good people with both.


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## Smiling Jane (Feb 10, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Once again, I find myself as the lone wolf on here. ... But, once again, I don't see it as a moral failure.
> 
> If you don't want one, don't get one.



You're not as alone as you might think. I don't have any body ink because I could never decide what I wanted, but I've seen some absolutely gorgeous tattoos.

I never paid much atention until a friend wrote her thesis on body adornment and we went to a couple of tattoo conventions to see what was being done. I came away from that experience impressed by the artistry I saw. A local artist decorated a few people I know. He left the business but he did some of the most beautiful work I've ever seen.

Totally agree with your statement, "If you don't like one, don't get one."

Now let's talk about the actual damage women do to their feet and bodies by wearing heels.


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## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

Victor said:


> It is the idea that I am cooler than you. Tattoos increase their self esteem.




You may be right. But, they must have some mighty low self esteem to go to such lengths.  In any event I wish I didn't have to see them as I go about my daily chores.


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## DaveA (Feb 10, 2018)

Traveler said:


> View attachment 48384 *Not even if she was the last woman on earth !*



_*I think I just fell in love!!!!!*_


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## RadishRose (Feb 10, 2018)




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## Shalimar (Feb 10, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Once again, I find myself as the lone wolf on here.  I have a 8 to 9 inch tat on each upper arm (hula girl on the right, mermaid on the left), plus a couple of smaller ones on my chest (4 aces on the left side, pair of dice on the right).  I got them all after I retired.  Mermaid was my 70th birthday present to myself, and the two on the chest were my 71st present to myself.  (Got the hula girl when I bought my Harley.  Seemed like the right thing to do)
> 
> And yes, some tats are indeed tribal - saw a lot of those on the Big Island.  And yes again,  IMHO some folks overdo it.  But, once again, I don't see it as a moral failure.
> 
> If you don't want one, don't get one.


I concur.


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## DaveA (Feb 10, 2018)

Most of these fads start out with folks wanting to stand out or be "distinctive", able to be singled out from the herd.  Works for awhile getting the admiring  oooh's and ahhh's but then it becomes commonplace and the only answer is to get something bigger and showier.  Same with the long hair fad of a few years back and now the skinhead generation. Shaved heads are supposed to display you as a "tough guy" or "hard case".  Combine the shaved head and a bunch of tats and you are now a "bad ass".  

The only difference with the tats is they're most likely with you for life.  I know some can be removed but I understand it's uncomfortable and expensive.  The hair can come back to normal, although mine disappeared over the years and I don't expect to see it again.   

To each his own, I guess.  I never indulged in any of the changes and just blended into a nondescript life.  LOL


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## RadishRose (Feb 10, 2018)

DaveA said:


> To each his own, I guess.  I never indulged in any of the changes and just blended into a nondescript life.  LOL



Somehow I have a feeling that your life was anything but "nondescript"!


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## Shalimar (Feb 10, 2018)

I have a beautiful tattoo, quite large, which covers most of my derrière. It was a gift from a Japanese master tattoo artist. He believed I had saved his son’s life, and wished to show his appreciation. So, I now sport a stunningly intricate Asian dragon, resting on a bed of chrysanthemums. Done in soft colours. Did it hurt to have it done? Yes, but worth it.


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## C'est Moi (Feb 10, 2018)

I don't particularly like tatoos but I don't care if other people have them.   I have better things to worry about than what people choose to do with their own bodies.


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## Smiling Jane (Feb 10, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> I don't particularly like tatoos but I don't care if other people have them.   I have better things to worry about than what people choose to do with their own bodies.



Absolutely true. Mind your own business, or MYOB as Dear Abby used to say.


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## Ruthanne (Feb 10, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Once again, I find myself as the lone wolf on here.  I have a 8 to 9 inch tat on each upper arm (hula girl on the right, mermaid on the left), plus a couple of smaller ones on my chest (4 aces on the left side, pair of dice on the right).  I got them all after I retired.  Mermaid was my 70th birthday present to myself, and the two on the chest were my 71st present to myself.  (Got the hula girl when I bought my Harley.  Seemed like the right thing to do)
> 
> And yes, some tats are indeed tribal - saw a lot of those on the Big Island.  And yes again,  IMHO some folks overdo it.  But, once again, I don't see it as a moral failure.
> 
> If you don't want one, don't get one.


Yes, I agree and say to each his/her own.  Everyone has a right to do what they wish to do with/to their bodies for whatever reason they want.


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## Ruthanne (Feb 10, 2018)

Traveler said:


> View attachment 48384 *Not even if she was the last woman on earth !*


I think she is gorgeous!


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## Shalimar (Feb 10, 2018)

Ruthanne said:


> I think she is gorgeous!


Yep.


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## DaveA (Feb 10, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> Somehow I have a feeling that your life was anything but "nondescript"!



You're right ,Rose.  How can anyone be totally nondescript if they're continually visiting Connecticut!!!!!!!


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## Smiling Jane (Feb 10, 2018)

Ruthanne said:


> I think she is gorgeous!



She certainly is. That's a 'consider the source' opinion.


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## Buckeye (Feb 10, 2018)

Traveler said:


> View attachment 48384 *Not even if she was the last woman on earth !*



I'm not wild about the nose ring, but otherwise she is very attractive.

As an aside, my tats are all "Sailor Jerry" designs, and are "retro" style - the original Sailor Jerry worked in Hawaii, and died about 40 years ago.  He left all of his art work to one of his helpers.  Now he has his own web site, sells Sailor Jerry Rum , tee shirts, etc.  Just goggle his name.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 10, 2018)

Traveler, *this *is what I call mutilating and what I can't agree with or understand.  *WARNING:  DISTURBING IMAGES, NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART



Spoiler



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ternational-tattoo-expo-devilish-designs.html




*


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## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

SeaBreeze said:


> Traveler, *this *is what I call mutilating and what I can't agree with or understand.  *WARNING:  DISTURBING IMAGES, NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*



No question, those are over the top disgusting.  I thought the ones I posted were really bad, but the ones SeaBreeze came up with are horrifically demonic. If I ran into any of those, I'd not just leave, I'd run.

*


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## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

Ruthanne said:


> Yes, I agree and say to each his/her own.  Everyone has a right to do what they wish to do with/to their bodies for whatever reason they want.




We are going to have to agree to disagree. I find those facial and whole body tattoos --- assaultive, extremely anti-social, and not any different than if someone walked up to me and slapped my face. :eeew:

No one has a right to make me lose my lunch.


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## Ruthanne (Feb 10, 2018)

Traveler said:


> We are going to have to agree to disagree. I find those facial and whole body tattoos --- assaultive, extremely anti-social, and not any different than if someone walked up to me and slapped my face. :eeew:
> 
> No one has a right to make me lose my lunch.


Then simply look away--they do have a right to do as they wish, this is a free country after all!  :yes:


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## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

Ruthanne said:


> Then simply look away--they do have a right to do as they wish, this is a free country after all!  :yes:



I can not "un-see" what I have seen.  Look at it this way, if you are riding on public transportation. and a dirty, foul smelling, urine soaked, man sits next to you, your senses have been assaulted.  Now, you can hold your nose but that foul odor will remain in your mind for a very long time. I feel the same way about my visual senses being assaulted.


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## Gary O' (Feb 10, 2018)

Doesn’t bother me in the least
However
Even though this gentleman seems to have a nice demeanor 

I prolly wouldn’t let him handle my profolio














SeaBreeze said:


> Traveler, *this *is what I call mutilating and what I can't agree with or understand.  *WARNING:  DISTURBING IMAGES, NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Aren’t those just graphic visuals of a migraine?


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 10, 2018)

We watch the Ink Masters show sometimes and Tattoo Nightmares, where people come in to cover up their bad tats, some doozies there!  This is a large interesting 3-D tattoo.


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## Ruthanne (Feb 10, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I can not "un-see" what I have seen.  Look at it this way, if you are riding on public transportation. and a dirty, foul smelling, urine soaked, man sits next to you, your senses have been assaulted.  Now, you can hold your nose but that foul odor will remain in your mind for a very long time. I feel the same way about my visual senses being assaulted.


It's not the same thing, though.  Try walking around with your head down and only slightly looking up and seeing just a very little and if you begin to see a bit of a tat. look away very fast...:sentimental:


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## Denise1952 (Feb 10, 2018)

I didn't read all the posts, but the "real" tatoos, like artwork, are VERY expensive, and some of the people I've seen with them are not wealthy enough to have them.  

The thing I run into a lot, even in my, small town, is "usually" teens with horrible manners against me, and probably other older folks.  Not just seniors, I don't mean that, but adults.  Like something has changed young people into disrespecting all adults.  I imagine it's what they see grownups doing, whether family or any adults.

That just makes me sad.

But I went down to grab a bite the other night, and as I was leaving the restaurant, a family of 3 was walking in.  The last through the door was a young boy about 11, 12, and he saw me waiting to out and backup and held the door for me.  I know some kids are doing well, being taught, and not seeing horrible things.  At least not yet.


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## Traveler (Feb 10, 2018)

Ruthanne said:


> It's not the same thing, though.  Try walking around with your head down and only slightly looking up and seeing just a very little and if you begin to see a bit of a tat. look away very fast...:sentimental:




Sorry to disagree with you but it is EXACTLY THE SAME THING. 

Do you see what you would have me doing ? In the old days, Blacks and Chinese and others would walk around with their heads down as if they were "lesser" humans.  And that is what you would have me do just so those tattooed, multi-pieced freaks can have "their precious freedom" ?  Do you see what you suggest ? Do you expect me to  give up MY freedom to walk around like a human, so those savages can strut ?


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

I believe what traveler was saying was people that take things to an extreme he's not talking about beautiful tattoos read the o p it's just like the plastic surgery or the whatever that Botox or whatever that stuff is that so many of the stars are using they go to an extreme and they ended up just I mean scarred for life


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## Traveler (Feb 11, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I have a beautiful tattoo, quite large, which covers most of my derrière. It was a gift from a Japanese master tattoo artist. He believed I had saved his son’s life, and wished to show his appreciation. So, I now sport a stunningly intricate Asian dragon, resting on a bed of chrysanthemums. Done in soft colours. Did it hurt to have it done? Yes, but worth it.




Shalimar, we are talking about two entirely different things. You write about tattoos that are hidden. I write about tattoos that deliberately displayed "in your face" for the public. Sooner or later, someone is going to have a tattoo blazened across his/her forehead F***  Y**.  And that person is going to DEMAND that he/she be not be discriminated against because it violates their right of free speech.


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## Traveler (Feb 11, 2018)

Denise1952 said:


> I believe what traveler was saying was people that take things to an extreme he's not talking about beautiful tattoos read the o p it's just like the plastic surgery or the whatever that Botox or whatever that stuff is that so many of the stars are using they go to an extreme and they ended up just I mean scarred for life



*​Exactly !*


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## Warrigal (Feb 11, 2018)

I don't approve of tattoos because they are permanent. One of my nieces has a small dolphin on her ankle and she broke it in an accident. She had to have surgery twice to repair it and it involved pins and plates. Her dolphin now looks like it is spitting lasers. I am also wary because of the risk of infections. The skin can fester and require a graft and if an infection of the blood occurs thins can get really serious.

I do like the artistry of henna designs. I have seen some that are applied to the scalp of women who have had chemotherapy and to the belles of pregnant women. After the birth the henna fades and there is no problem with skin that has been stretched beyond its elastic limit. I've see designs for brides that resemble an elegant garter on the thighs. In each of these applications the woman feels attractive and there is no risk of any infections.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2018)

I don't think I've ever posted a real, un-retouched photograph of myself on this forum in all the years I've been here, but I think Traveler deserves to see me in all my glory ...


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> I don't think I've ever posted a real, un-retouched photograph of myself on this forum in all the years I've been here, but I think Traveler deserves to see me in all my glory ...
> 
> View attachment 48411


Darling, is that the bluebird of happiness on your head?


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## Ken N Tx (Feb 11, 2018)

I do not think that the young people today think of what will happen in the future. My son in law has to keep his arms covered with long sleeve shirts while on the job. Another friend ( female) has a tattoo on her wrist that future employers have committed on during job interviews. 

I don't know how anyone of them with facial tattoos can get a job!!


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Darling, is that the bluebird of happiness on your head?



*just spit my coffee*

No, but the Bird of Paradise just flew up my nose ...


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> *just spit my coffee*
> 
> No, but the Bird of Paradise just flew up my nose ...


Loll.


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## Gary O' (Feb 11, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> I don't think I've ever posted a real, un-retouched photograph of myself on this forum in all the years I've been here, but I think Traveler deserves to see me in all my glory ...
> 
> View attachment 48411



Well, I must say………..nice tats
(I so wanted to use the 'i' but refrained…it was a struggle…rather proud of that, somewhat cherub like, if I do say so myself...ahem)


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Well, I must say………..nice tats
> (I so wanted to use the 'i' but refrained…it was a struggle…rather proud of that, somewhat cherub like, if I do say so myself...ahem)



We're ALL angels here ...


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## IKE (Feb 11, 2018)

Line for line this looks almost exactly like the tat I have on my right shoulder......it's my temple and I'll use it as a coloring book if I want to.


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> We're ALL angels here ...
> 
> View attachment 48414


Nice wings. Hair needs work.


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Well, I must say………..nice tats
> (I so wanted to use the 'i' but refrained…it was a struggle…rather proud of that, somewhat cherub like, if I do say so myself...ahem)


Awwww, you an angel.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Nice wings.



Thanks.

Got 'em on sale at Wings-R-Us.


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## Gary O' (Feb 11, 2018)

IKE said:


> Line for line this looks almost exactly like the tat I have on my right shoulder......it's my temple and I'll use it as a coloring book if I want to.
> 
> 
> View attachment 48415



You got that, IKE, yessir


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## Gary O' (Feb 11, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> We're ALL angels here ...
> 
> View attachment 48414



nice bar towel


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## Buckeye (Feb 11, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Well, I must say………..nice tats
> (I so wanted to use the 'i' but refrained…it was a struggle…rather proud of that, somewhat cherub like, if I do say so myself...ahem)



I believe the correct term is "moobs"


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> nice bar towel



LOL!

"Closin' Time at the Cherub Club"


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## Gary O' (Feb 11, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> LOL!
> 
> "Closin' Time at the Cherub Club"




Yup

this thread will prolly get a bit of a cleansing by the time I look back in tonight

but hey, it was fun

'moobs'....what a Hoot

gonna use my bar towel now to mop up everything coffee in front of me, the pillow top beckons for that all important second sleep


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## retiredtraveler (Feb 11, 2018)

> *Not even if she was the last woman on earth !*



Yup.........


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## Sunny (Feb 11, 2018)

Gary, surely that picture of the guy in the Charles Schwab ad is photoshopped, or the makeup folks produced the face he is wearing?  That cannot be real tattooing!  (On his eyelids? Please!)
As a joke, it is certainly eyecatching, if nothing else.

Traveler, the way people choose to dress, use makeup, or mutilate their bodies cannot be regulated according to what MAY be upsetting to other people. Think what a slippery slope that would be. What if some people got physically upset by particular fashions in clothes or makeup?  What if looking at high stiletto heels made you "lose your lunch?"  Are you being "assaulted" by having to see them when out in the public arena?  (Or on TV, for that matter?)

Your example of the smelly guy sitting next to you on public transportation is an interesting one, but even in his case, I don't think he is violating any law by being smelly. You are saying he doesn't have the "right" to assault your senses. But doesn't he have the "right" to bathe or not to bathe?  It would be unfortunate to sit have him sit next to you, but in most cases you can simply get up and move to another seat.  (My son recently got stuck in that situation on a plane; he said the guy next to him smelled like he hadn't bathed for a week. But even there, he didn't have a lot of recourse. Fortunately, it was a short flight.)


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## Gary O' (Feb 11, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Gary, surely that picture of the guy in the Charles Schwab ad is photoshopped, or the makeup folks produced the face he is wearing?  That cannot be real tattooing!  (On his eyelids? Please!)
> As a joke, it is certainly eyecatching, if nothing else.




Yup

I use the ol' mspaint for cut/paste, and touch up with a freebee called GIMP
Photoshop is for those that can afford it

and, sometimes photomania

Free is a very good price


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## Sunny (Feb 11, 2018)

Gary,


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## Traveler (Feb 11, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Traveler, the way people choose to dress, use makeup, or mutilate their bodies cannot be regulated according to what MAY be upsetting to other people. Think what a slippery slope that would be. What if some people got physically upset by particular fashions in clothes or makeup?  What if looking at high stiletto heels made you "lose your lunch?"  Are you being "assaulted" by having to see them when out in the public arena?  (Or on TV, for that matter?)
> 
> Your example of the smelly guy sitting next to you on public transportation is an interesting one, but even in his case, I don't think he is violating any law by being smelly. You are saying he doesn't have the "right" to assault your senses. But doesn't he have the "right" to bathe or not to bathe?  It would be unfortunate to sit have him sit next to you, but in most cases you can simply get up and move to another seat.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




People may have a "right" to engage in *many *behaviors, but that does not mean they are right to do so. People have a right to burn the American flag, as protected under the 1st Amendment. People have a "right" to use the "N' word. Those are but two examples of people I detest. 

Women have a right to wear real perfume (as opposed to cologne) even if I am allergic to perfume, which gives me a violent head-ache.

People have a right to smoke cigarettes, but that does not stop other people from trying to wipe-out smoking.

People have a "right" to eat until they weigh 750 lbs, but are they right to do so ?

There are a host of "rights" that are just plain *wrong*.

In any event I have a right to bitterly complain about anything I find offensive.


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## Dragonlady (Feb 11, 2018)

I am not a fan of tattoos. I think human skin looks just fine without any alterations. Also, as a young person, tattoos were associated with the lawless portion of our small town population - a very deep impression that is very hard to get rid of in spite of the fact that my rational mind tells me things have changed. I have to admit that the first few I saw shocked me; however, I do not believe a single individual (or a group, for that matter) has the right to expect society as a whole to regulate their behavior to accommodate various individual biases. The next person to face regulation based on individual (or group biases) could be you!
I have no tattoos - nor have I ever had a desire for one.


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## Buckeye (Feb 11, 2018)

Traveler - for God's sake, please lighten up!  You really don't have to take on the task of determining what is right and what is wrong for all 7 billion of us here on the planet.  It is not good for your health and we don't want to see you stroke out over something as trivial as ink.

And AFAIK people have been predicting the end of civilization since the beginning of civilization.  

I love you, man!


----------



## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

I see a few things at Wally World I'd rather not seen, and I am glad I don't live in a larger city.  I'm just not "worldly" enough to handle some things.  I don't like nightmares, and sometimes I cannot stop seeing something in my mind, no joke, I'm serious. 

Beauty, or lack thereof, is in the eye of the beholder.  I don't think the "look" is as scary as what "I think" goes on in someone's mind.  Then again, you take a perfectly clean-cut looking person, handsome/Pretty, and they turn out to be serial killers.


----------



## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Traveler - for God's sake, please lighten up!  You really don't have to take on the task of determining what is right and what is wrong for all 7 billion of us here on the planet.  It is not good for your health and we don't want to see you stroke out over something as trivial as ink.
> 
> And AFAIK people have been predicting the end of civilization since the beginning of civilization.
> 
> I love you, man!



Speak of ink, I was wondering if it is healthy to have that (not to mention the dye colors) shot into your skin?  I mean I grew up with a lot of the guys having tatoos on their arms etc.  and never heard of any being infected or sick from one.  Guess I can google it.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 11, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Traveler - for God's sake, please lighten up!  You really don't have to take on the task of determining what is right and what is wrong for all 7 billion of us here on the planet.  It is not good for your health and we don't want to see you stroke out over something as trivial as ink.
> 
> And AFAIK people have been predicting the end of civilization since the beginning of civilization.
> 
> I love you, man!




haha This *IS *my idea of lightening up. As far as the end of civilization is concerned, all I can say is that when people  have no consideration for the feelings of others, there can be no civilization.  :wink:It seems to me that with every passing new generation, things get weirder  and weirder. If my health was not such a big issue, I'd head for the high mountains to escape to insanity.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

I'm pretty sure some of the extremests do it to freak others out.  Those that have something like the Rose tatoo, and some ears pierced, or a nose, just feel it's pretty, and yes, some are very pretty.  One reason I don't have anything but pierced ears (wow, pretty extreme though, 2 holes in each, lol) is I couldn't handle the needles, plus, as someone else said, it's permanent.  I change my mind too much to commit to a life-long "decor" on my bod. Not to forget a beautiful Rose would not look so hot wrinkling up as I grow older


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## Buckeye (Feb 11, 2018)

Denise1952 said:


> Speak of ink, I was wondering if it is healthy to have that (not to mention the dye colors) shot into your skin?  I mean I grew up with a lot of the guys having tatoos on their arms etc.  and never heard of any being infected or sick from one.  Guess I can google it.



Tattoo shops are regulated & (I assume) inspected, but anything can happen.  I've never worried about it.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

this would change the topic, but I have to mention that those pants worn at half-mast seem to defy gravity, and a genuine mystery to this sleuth, LOL!


----------



## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Tattoo shops are regulated & (I assume) inspected, but anything can happen.  I've never worried about it.



I didn't even think of that, but yes, almost like a doctors office for what they are performing.  Thanks Annie.


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## Sunny (Feb 11, 2018)

> It seems to me that with every passing new generation, things get weirder  and weirder.



Spoken like a true geezer!

Here's an old Broadway song from Bye Bye, Birdie:


  Kids!
I don't know what's wrong with these kids today!
Kids!
Who can understand anything they say?
Kids!
They a disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
While we're on the subject:
Kids!
You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
Kids!
But they still just do what they want to do!
Why can't they be like we were,
Perfect in every way?
What's the matter with kids today?
Kids!
I've tried to raise him the best I could
Kids! Kids!
Laughing, singing, dancing, grinning, morons!
And while we're on the subject!
Kids! They are just impossible to control!
Kids! With their awful clothes and their rock an' roll!
Why can't they dance like we did
What's wrong with Sammy Kaye?

What's the matter with kids today!

​​


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Spoken like a true geezer!
> 
> Here's an old Broadway song from Bye Bye, Birdie:
> 
> ...



A good reminder that things haven't changed much


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## Traveler (Feb 11, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Spoken like a true geezer!
> 
> 
> Perhaps.  I would, however, remind you that for most of human history, peoples lives, their thinking and their behaviors did not change one tiny bit from generation to generation.  If we were to look at Egyptian history from 3000 B.C. up until their final downfall at the hands of Alexander in the 3rd century B.C., absolutely nothing changed in their day-to-day lives.  Yes, there were some new inventions, like the wheel, and some improvements in metallurgy, but a man or woman from 3,000 B.C. would be totally at ease if they were magically transported into 500 B.C.
> ...


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2018)

I vastly prefer living in a time, difficult changes or otherwise, to living in a past where, assuming I survived the rigours of childbirth, I would be fortunate if half of my children lived to maturity. In the eighteen hundreds, early twentieth century, thousands of homeless, illiterate kids roamed the big cities, orphans, or turned out by their poor parents. They lived rough, often lawless lives, usually died very young. I think modern day people would have difficulty dealing with them.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Sunny said:
> 
> 
> > Spoken like a true geezer!
> ...


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

I see today's problems as being wholly related to the decline of mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual well-being.  And I think it's been from the beginning, a steady decline.


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## Traveler (Feb 11, 2018)

Denise1952 said:


> I see today's problems as being wholly related to the decline of mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual well-being.  And I think it's been from the beginning, a steady decline.




That reminds me of a conversation I had 20 years ago with a lady friend.  We were discussing the rapid rate of change and the decline of civilized behavior. She said to me, "My mother said the same thing to me during the 1960's, that everything was going to pot."  I replied, "Yes, and your mother was *right. *Things have been going downhill for a very long time."

The world is going to "hell in a handbasket". True today. True 50 years ago. And true when the extended family of Mom, Pop, kids, grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins began to break up.  Today, without the constant, ever present, steadying hand of older and wiser adults around to shepherd the youngsters, the children are left to their own, and all too often getting into serious trouble and starting down a path that will destroy them. 

Children, without almost constant adult supervision, are grave danger, for those children will learn some pretty horrific things, in the streets. 
Remember that sweet-faced infant that smiled up at you from the crib? Well, today too many of them are now full blown addicts by age 18.
The rate of childhood suicide is, today, far, far more prevalent than at any time in human history.  The above are symptoms of a society falling apart.


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2018)

I suspect that the rate of childhood suicide in the cities during the end of nineteenth and beginning of twentieth centuries, among the thousands of street kids, far eclipsed  our normal stats. The history of that time, with some very stark pictures, is readily available. One of the things a psychotherapist learns early on in their career, is that fundamentally, people  have not changed very much, yes, there are exceptions, evil exists as it always has, but most individuals just want to live a happy and productive life, however, with the rise of all the multimedia, sensationalism skews our point of view.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

Traveler said:


> That reminds me of a conversation I had 20 years ago with a lady friend.  We were discussing the rapid rate of change and the decline of civilized behavior. She said to me, "My mother said the same thing to me during the 1960's, that everything was going to pot."  I replied, "Yes, and your mother was *right. *Things have been going downhill for a very long time."
> 
> The world is going to "hell in a handbasket". True today. True 50 years ago. And true when the extended family of Mom, Pop, kids, grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins began to break up.  Today, without the constant, ever present, steadying hand of older and wiser adults around to shepherd the youngsters, the children are left to their own, and all too often getting into serious trouble and starting down a path that will destroy them.
> 
> ...



You are right Traveler, well said.  I see the "NEW AGE" as nothing new at all


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I suspect that the rate of childhood suicide in the cities during the end of nineteenth and beginning of twentieth centuries, among the thousands of street kids, far eclipsed our normal stats. The history of that time, with some very stark pictures, is readily available. One of the things a psychotherapist learns early on in their career, is that fundamentally, people have not changed very much, yes, there are exceptions, evil exists as it always has, but most individuals just want to live a happy and productive life, however, with the rise of all the multimedia, sensationalism skews our point of view.



Very true.

Also, after a dip in the 20th-century stats in the late '80's - mid '90's, the suicide rates for ALL age groups have risen again, especially amongst teenaged girls.

The reasons? Poor economy, loss of access to medical aid (one of the largest predictors of suicide), and a switch from using cocaine to using heroin and Rx painkillers.


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2018)

Up until about a hundred years ago, one could by heroin etc at the corner chemist, who knows what the addiction rate was? It was common practice to give teething babies a spot of booze to help with the pain, I imagine many received laudanum, as well.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Up until about a hundred years ago, one could by heroin etc at the corner chemist, who knows what the addiction rate was? It was common practice to give teething babies a spot of booze to help with the pain, I imagine many received laudanum, as well.



A point to be considered.


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 11, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Up until about a hundred years ago, one could by heroin etc at the corner chemist, who knows what the addiction rate was? It was common practice to give teething babies a spot of booze to help with the pain, I imagine many received laudanum, as well.



In my hometown we had an old doctor that wrote prescriptions for opiates to treat melancholia and female complaints. When he died from an overdose many of his patients went through painful periods of withdrawal because the new doctors did not share his methods. 

To keep this on topic, I'm not aware that the old doctor had any tattoos or piercings at the time of his death.


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> In my hometown we had an old doctor that wrote prescriptions for opiates to treat melancholia and female complaints. When he died from an overdose many of his patients went through painful periods of withdrawal because the new doctors did not share his methods.
> 
> To keep this on topic, I'm not aware that the old doctor had any tattoos or piercings at the time of his death.


That is frightening. I believe in the sixties, it was common practice to give housewives Valium.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

It seems to follow that the more population, the more troubles.  Probably also, the more good, but not sure about the latter as I look around.  On the whole though, I wonder if just the fact that there are "more people" does equal worse today??


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

I heard Stevie Nicks say her getting off Klonopin, a controlled substance, was worse than heroine.  Maybe the drugs of choice have changed?? Easily acquired with a prescription, and horribly addicting.


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## Ken N Tx (Feb 11, 2018)

Those darn kids!!
.

.


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## Traveler (Feb 11, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I suspect that the rate of childhood suicide in the cities during the end of nineteenth and beginning of twentieth centuries, among the thousands of street kids, far eclipsed  our normal stats. The history of that time, with some very stark pictures, is readily available. One of the things a psychotherapist learns early on in their career, is that fundamentally, people  have not changed very much, yes, there are exceptions, evil exists as it always has, but most individuals just want to live a happy and productive life, however, with the rise of all the multimedia, sensationalism skews our point of view.





Shalimar, I will yield to your greater knowledge of statistics but I did locate this. A jump from 6.5 youngster suicides per100,000 in 1900, to 13 in 1999


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## Traveler (Feb 11, 2018)

Ken N Tx said:


> Those darn kids!!
> .
> View attachment 48424
> .
> View attachment 48426



OMG Some very strange and creepy old folks.  Gives me the willies. UGH !


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

Traveler said:


> OMG Some very strange and creepy old folks.  Gives me the willies. UGH !



But they are at least old enough to know they are doing


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

I thought this was well written, so will share it for those who care to read

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/reef-karim-do/psychology-of-tattoos_b_2017530.html


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## Linda W. (Feb 11, 2018)

Nothing new there. Tatoos and various "decorative" piercings have been going on for a long time. I'm more concerned with people's behavior...like bullying, for instance.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

check out that link/article, tells you how different things can mean "groups" etc.  The guy also talks about how he'd rather get to now people by what's inside instead of outward appearances, and tells of some things that may lie behind the piercings/tatooing.


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## Sunny (Feb 11, 2018)

Back in those "good old days," many of those children who were fortunate enough to survive infancy were reduced to begging for a crust of bread. And many were subjected to incredible cruelty. ("Spare the rod and spoil the child.")  So let's not get carried away with how wonderful things used to be for those innocent little babies.

I've mentioned the book "The Good Old Days - They Were Terrible!" on this forum before. Once again, I recommend it to everyone. It's fascinating, and a real eye-opener. You can probably find it on Amazon.


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## Olivia (Feb 11, 2018)

Thank you, Sunny! I can really use this as ammunition for a forum pal that insists EVERYTHING was so much better in the past when charity and the private sector took care of everything. Makes me wonder if he ever heard of Charles Dickens.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 11, 2018)

Right now days babies are just killed in the womb so it is a lot better nowadays right??


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2018)

Abortion has been present for thousands of years. Of course, more women died then due to unsafe practices.


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## Traveler (Feb 11, 2018)

I hope I don't have to remind people that the issue is NOT tattoos in and of themselves, but rather the "over-the-top" extreme *facial *tattoos and dozens and dozens of body piercings. I have never personally seen metal ornamentation/piercing on the most intimate area of a woman's anatomy, and I hope I never do see that, IMO there is something terribly wrong with a woman who would do something so bizarre.

As I sit here tonight, watching the ladies figure skating in the Winter Olympics, I am once again in awe of their talent, grace and sheer feminine beauty. I think I can say with absolute assurance that if one of those ladies was covered with tattoos and had 2 pounds of metal hanging from her face, the entire world would be horrified. 

Since I have said my little piece, and have nothing more to add, I now exit from this particular thread.


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## Manatee (Feb 11, 2018)

What ever became of the Ubangis in Africa?


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## Sunny (Feb 12, 2018)

> Makes me wonder if he ever heard of Charles Dickens.



Olivia, exactly!


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## NewRetire18 (Feb 12, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> How about the "mono dread"?



Oh my goodness; I thought those were beavers going after the wood log isle!


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## Denise1952 (Feb 12, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Abortion has been present for thousands of years. Of course, more women died then due to unsafe practices.



Abortion is now used for birth control, that's why the numbers of, are so high.


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## Sunny (Feb 12, 2018)

Denise, isn't the topic of this thread supposed to be tattoos?  You seem to be working awfully hard to turn it into an anti-abortion polemic.  I don't see what abortion has to do with the subject
under discussion.

Although I guess the two subjects do have this in common:  Don't like abortions/tattoos?  Fine, don't get one.


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## Smiling Jane (Feb 12, 2018)

Denise1952 said:


> Abortion is now used for birth control, that's why the numbers of, are so high.



That's probably untrue except among women who work for employers like Hobby Lobby who refuse to cover birth control as part of their employees' health insurance.


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## Shalimar (Feb 12, 2018)

Denise1952 said:


> Abortion is now used for birth control, that's why the numbers of, are so high.


What does abortion have to do with tattoos? (Birth control is accessible to all in Canada, no need to rely on abortion for such.)


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## Smiling Jane (Feb 12, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> What does abortion have to do with tattoos? (Birth control is accessible to all in Canada, no need to rely on abortion for such.)



It's not accessible to all in the U.S.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 12, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I hope I don't have to remind people that the issue is NOT tattoos in and of themselves, but rather the "over-the-top" extreme *facial *tattoos and dozens and dozens of body piercings. I have never personally seen metal ornamentation/piercing on the most intimate area of a woman's anatomy, and I hope I never do see that, IMO there is something terribly wrong with a woman who would do something so bizarre.



Disagree strongly.



> As I sit here tonight, watching the ladies figure skating in the Winter Olympics, I am once again in awe of their talent, grace and sheer feminine beauty. I think I can say with absolute assurance that if one of those ladies was covered with tattoos and had 2 pounds of metal hanging from her face, the entire world would be horrified.



I always thought the main idea of judging a figure skating performance was on the _performance_, not the appearance.

Very bold of you to speak for the entire _world_. 



> Since I have said my little piece, and have nothing more to add, I now exit from this particular thread.



Ah, the dreaded THAR - Traveler's Hit And Run!


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## Shalimar (Feb 12, 2018)

Smiling Jane said:


> It's not accessible to all in the U.S.


Of course. Thanks for the reminder.


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## Sunny (Feb 12, 2018)

> That's probably untrue except among women who work for employers like  Hobby Lobby who refuse to cover birth control as part of their  employees' health insurance.



So maybe the sanctimonious folks who run Hobby Lobby would rather subsidize abortion instead?


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## Dragonlady (Feb 12, 2018)

LOL - if you are against abortion; then reliable contraception should eliminate a large amount of necessity for abortionDoesn't make a lot of sense


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## RadishRose (Feb 12, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> LOL - if you are against abortion; then reliable contraception should eliminate a large amount of necessity for abortionDoesn't make a lot of sense



what does this have to do with the OP?


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## Smiling Jane (Feb 12, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> what does this have to do with the OP?



Nothing. I guess we got tired of ragging on people with tattoos and moved on.


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## RadishRose (Feb 12, 2018)

Oh, ok.


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## Stormy (Feb 12, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> what does this have to do with the OP?



That's my question too.  When I was little most tattoos I saw were on men in the military but now they are common with men and women and are an expression of art.  I know a lot of people who have them and I have one myself.  Like everything else moderation is probably better than extremism but to each his own


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## RadishRose (Feb 12, 2018)

IMO, Live and let live as long as no one gets hurt it doesn't matter if you file your teeth into points or tattoo the entire globe on your body. I simply do not care.


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## Stormy (Feb 12, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> IMO, Live and let live as long as no one gets hurt it doesn't matter if you file your teeth into points or tattoo the entire globe on your body. I simply do not care.



That's right your body your business


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## Big Horn (Feb 12, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Up until about a hundred years ago, one could by heroin etc at the corner chemist, who knows what the addiction rate was? It was common practice to give teething babies a spot of booze to help with the pain, I imagine many received laudanum, as well.


Physicians in ancient Egypt recommended opium for quieting infants.  The records exist.



Ken N Tx said:


> I do not think that the young people today think of what will happen in the future. My son in law has to keep his arms covered with long sleeve shirts while on the job. Another friend ( female) has a tattoo on her wrist that future employers have committed on during job interviews.
> 
> I don't know how anyone of them with facial tattoos can get a job!!


If a person without tattoos can't get a job because of incompetence, lack of education, etc., getting tattoos allows him to say that people were too biased to hire him.  He's likely telling himself that more than he has a chance to tell others.

I once saw a color picture on the front page of a Salt Lake newspaper showing a man whose head was entirely covered with tattoos.  He had murdered a prison guard who was taking him to a medical appointment so he had apparently been a low security risk.  However, tattoos of this sort are obvious evidence of psychosis.


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 12, 2018)

I might find a head converted in tattoos odd, but I would not feel it was reliable evidence of psychosis.


----------



## Big Horn (Feb 12, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I might find a head converted in tattoos odd, but I would not feel it was reliable evidence of psychosis.


Here's a medical description of psychotic behavior.

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/psychosis

"Patients suffering from psychosis have impaired reality testing; that is, they are unable to distinguish personal subjective experience from the reality of the external world. They experience hallucinations and/or delusions that  they  believe  are  real,  and  may  behave  and  communicate  in  an  inappropriate  and  incoherent  fashion.  Psychosis  may  appear  as  a  symptom  of  a  number  of  mental  disorders,  including  mood  and personality disorders. It is also the defining feature of schizophrenia, schizophreniform disorder, schizoaffective disorder, delusional disorder, and the psychotic disorders (i.e., brief psychotic disorder, shared psychotic disorder, psychotic disorder due to a general medical condition, and substance-induced psychotic disorder)."


----------



## Smiling Jane (Feb 12, 2018)

There's an actor named Robert LaSardo who has made a very good living playing scary characters. He's covered in tattoos except for his face.


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 13, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> Here's a medical description of psychotic behavior.
> 
> https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/psychosis
> 
> "Patients suffering from psychosis have impaired reality testing; that is, they are unable to distinguish personal subjective experience from the reality of the external world. They experience hallucinations and/or delusions that  they  believe  are  real,  and  may  behave  and  communicate  in  an  inappropriate  and  incoherent  fashion.  Psychosis  may  appear  as  a  symptom  of  a  number  of  mental  disorders,  including  mood  and personality disorders. It is also the defining feature of schizophrenia, schizophreniform disorder, schizoaffective disorder, delusional disorder, and the psychotic disorders (i.e., brief psychotic disorder, shared psychotic disorder, psychotic disorder due to a general medical condition, and substance-induced psychotic disorder)."



As a psychotherapist I am cognizant of the requirements of a psychotic diagnosis, I simply do not believe a tattooed head is necessarily symptomatic of a break with reality. For example,  the Maori of New Zealand at one time embraced full facial tattoos, 

I have seen a picture of a western missionary who embraced this practice while living among them. I sincerely doubt that he or they were psychotic. One of the most important things any psychologist learns is that a diagnosis reveals as much about the therapist as it does about the client. Just because a person may choose to live in a way I personally find bizarre or abhorant, in no way automatically qualifies them for being perceived as psychotic.


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## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

Shalimar,  with all due respect to you and your profession, I feel it is necessary to point out that we can not compare Western man to the Maori of New Zealand.  The Maori were, after all, savages of the basest nature who regularly engaged in cannibalism.  For a Western man to mimic the Maori and start eating people we must, IMO, seriously consider the likelihood that he is psychotic. The same holds true of full-facial tattoos. Full facial tattoos are, after all, extremely anti-social. 

I know that Shalimar is totally aware that an anti-social personality is, aka : psychopath, later renamed sociopath, but many of our readers may not be so aware.


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## Olivia (Feb 13, 2018)

I can't see that legitimate tatoo artists would do full facial tatooing. And aren't they liable for doing tatoos for people they perceive as being inebriated, mentally unstable, under age, or under the influence of drugs?  It has to be done by some other people doing that kind of tatoos, such as it's done in prison.

Just recently there was a sad, sad, story about a two-year old that had been horribly physically abused early on by the father and then poisoned by the mother. The father has full facial tatoos. No one can make me believe that's anything a normal person would do. That's psychotic to me. JMO. And how does such a child get put back in such a situation in the first place?


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## Shalimar (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Shalimar,  with all due respect to you and your profession, I feel it is necessary to point out that we can not compare Western man to the Maori of New Zealand.  The Maori were, after all, savages of the basest nature who regularly engaged in cannibalism.  For a Western man to mimic the Maori and start eating people we must, IMO, seriously consider the likelihood that he is psychotic. The same holds true of full-facial tattoos. Full facial tattoos are, after all, extremely anti-social.
> 
> I know that Shalimar is totally aware that an anti-social personality is, aka : psychopath, later renamed sociopath, but many of our readers may not be so aware.



Actually, ritual cannibalism as a way to absorb the strength of one’s enemies, was a part of many warrior cultures, including some of the indigenous people of North America. To label such people who had such a rich history including producing phenomenal  music, art, and textiles, as “base savages,” seems somewhat one dimensional, given the history of cruelty/genocide carried out against them by so called civilised Man. As for the aforementioned missionary, he did not engage in cannibalism, Christians don’t.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 13, 2018)

Speaking of "base savages" ...

As just two examples, both Massachusettes and New Hampshire offered bounties for Indian scalps, usually paying more for a male than a female.


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## RadishRose (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> The same holds true of full-facial tattoos. Full facial tattoos are, after all, extremely anti-social.
> .



Who said so?


----------



## Big Horn (Feb 13, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Speaking of "base savages" ...
> 
> As just two examples, both Massachusettes and New Hampshire offered bounties for Indian scalps, usually paying more for a male than a female.


I have never seen any offered for sale.  The situation seems to be similar to the tsantsa (shrunken head) market where lab tests never seem to indicate an original.  I did read of one that was human, but it was a woman.  The real ones are male warriors.

Scalps should mummify in the dry heat of Mexico and the SW U.S., but where are they?

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/HNS/Scalpin/oldfolks.html


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## Big Horn (Feb 13, 2018)

Come on, Radish.  You know as well of the rest of us that only a total not would have his face tattooed in our society.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Shalimar,  with all due respect to you and your profession, I feel it is necessary to point out that we can not compare Western man to the Maori of New Zealand.  The Maori were, after all, savages of the basest nature who regularly engaged in cannibalism.  For a Western man to mimic the Maori and start eating people we must, IMO, seriously consider the likelihood that he is psychotic. The same holds true of full-facial tattoos. * Full facial tattoos are, after all, extremely anti-social.*
> 
> I know that Shalimar is totally aware that an anti-social personality is, aka : psychopath, later renamed sociopath, but many of our readers may not be so aware.







RadishRose said:


> Who said so?




I said so. Unless there as been some new law passed, of which I am unaware, I am still entitled to my opinion. And, my opinion is that people with full facial tattoos, and/or 2 pounds of metal hanging from their face, are extremely anti-social. People who so flagrantly ignore societies customs are, in effect, saying to the world F***  Y** !


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 13, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> I have never seen any offered for sale.  The situation seems to be similar to the tsantsa (shrunken head) market where lab tests never seem to indicate an original.  I did read of one that was human, but it was a woman.  The real ones are male warriors.
> 
> Scalps should mummify in the dry heat of Mexico and the SW U.S., but where are they?
> 
> http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/HNS/Scalpin/oldfolks.html



I can't speak to why there are no remaining scalps, but that was a good article you posted.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> ... People who so flagrantly ignore societies customs are, in effect, saying to the world F*** Y** !



Perhaps they have a good reason to ...


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Perhaps they have a good reason to ...




Then they can't have any reason to complain when the world tells them, in return, F***  Y** TOO !   Get the hell away from us. "  No job. No apartment rental. In fact no anything that the law does not absolutely require us to do.


----------



## Dragonlady (Feb 13, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Speaking of "base savages" ...
> 
> As just two examples, both Massachusettes and New Hampshire offered bounties for Indian scalps, usually paying more for a male than a female.



We've had a few "base savages" in our own culture - the gross tortures of people in the middle ages - in the name of Christianity - and burning them alive - again, in the name of Christianity. The Salem witch burnings here in America.


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 13, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> We've had a few "base savages" in our own culture - the gross tortures of people in the middle ages - in the name of Christianity - and burning them alive - again, in the name of Christianity. The Salem witch burnings here in America.


Indeed, and let’s not forget the concentration camps of the Hitler era.


----------



## RadishRose (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I said so. Unless there as been some new law passed, of which I am unaware, I am still entitled to my opinion. And, my opinion is that people with full facial tattoos, and/or 2 pounds of metal hanging from their face, are extremely anti-social. People who so flagrantly ignore societies customs are, in effect, saying to the world F***  Y** !



 No one is trying to take away your opinion.

 I asked who
 you said you
 thanks and good night, too.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

People who support the concept of full facial tattoos and bizarre facial piercings seem to be saying, 'It's their body and they have a right to do with it as they please'.   If so, then I ask if it is also perfectly acceptable to sneeze without any attempt to cover it, just spray all over everyone ?  Or how about if you are in a restaurant, enjoying your meal, and some jerk at the next table lets out the loudest belch you ever heard ? Or how about you are at a restaurant, dining with someone, and you see him picking his nose and wiping it on his sleeve. Wouldn't you be grossed out ? If you answered yes, then I ask you, why? After all, it's his body, shouldn't he be allowed to do whatever he wants to do with it.? 

Society has unwritten rules for civilized behavior. When people start doing any darn thing they please, any time they darn well feel like it, then society begins to crumble.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Then they can't have any reason to complain when the world tells them, in return, F*** Y** TOO ! Get the hell away from us. " No job. No apartment rental. In fact no anything that the law does not absolutely require us to do.



And you would be content being a person like that? 

Where does the line get drawn? Today it's tats and piercings, tomorrow it's skin color, the next day it's left-handers. 

I don't know about where you live, but here in PA (and pretty much everywhere on the East coast) it's illegal to turn someone down for a job or an apartment simply based on their physical appearance.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> People who support the concept of full facial tattoos and bizarre facial piercings seem to be saying, 'It's their body and they have a right to do with it as they please'. If so, then I ask if it is also perfectly acceptable to sneeze without any attempt to cover it, just spray all over everyone ?



That's a health matter.



> Or how about if you are in a restaurant, enjoying your meal, and some jerk at the next table lets out the loudest belch you ever heard ?



That's a manners matter.



> Or how about you are at a restaurant, dining with someone, and you see him picking his nose and wiping it on his sleeve.



That as well is a manners matter.



> Wouldn't you be grossed out ? If you answered yes, then I ask you, why? After all, it's his body, shouldn't he be allowed to do whatever he wants to do with it.?



I wouldn't be grossed out - I've seen far worse. And yes, he can do what he wants with his own body. It doesn't mean you have to like it, but it also doesn't mean you have to go on a vendetta against sneezers, belchers and nose-pickers.



> Society has unwritten rules for civilized behavior. When people start doing any darn thing they please, any time they darn well feel like it, then society begins to crumble.



If those rules are unwritten then we really don't have to follow them. It's a matter of convenience, upbringing, manners and personal likes and dislikes, nothing more.

You seem to have a rage-on for these tatted/pierced folks. Why not just live and let live, you'll reduce the amount of acids your stomach is churning out.


----------



## Big Horn (Feb 13, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> I wouldn't  be grossed out - I've seen far worse. And yes, he can do what he wants with his own body. It doesn't mean you have to like it, but it also doesn't mean you have to go on a vendetta against sneezers, belchers and nose-pickers...
> 
> If those rules are unwritten then we really don't have to follow them. It's a matter of convenience, upbringing, manners and personal likes and dislikes, nothing more.


Do you mind people who pick their noses and draw out a really big and juicy looking booger, then hold it up to the light to examine it more closely, then finally pop it into their mouths and eat it with a mouth smacking sound and a grunt of pleasure.

The foregoing notwithstanding, I'd prefer to watch someone eat boogers while I'm eating lunch than to look at a  tattooed face.


----------



## Gary O' (Feb 13, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> Do you mind people who pick their noses and draw out a really big and juicy looking booger, then hold it up to the light to examine it more closely, then finally pop it into their mouths and eat it with a mouth smacking sound and a grunt of pleasure.
> 
> The foregoing notwithstanding, I'd prefer to watch someone eat boogers while I'm eating lunch than to look at a  tattooed face.



I'll take the face


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> Do you mind people who pick their noses and draw out a really big and juicy looking booger, then hold it up to the light to examine it more closely, then finally pop it into their mouths and eat it with a mouth smacking sound and a grunt of pleasure.
> 
> The foregoing notwithstanding, I'd prefer to watch someone eat boogers while I'm eating lunch than to look at a  tattooed face.




Amen. My feelings exactly.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 13, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> Do you mind people who pick their noses and draw out a really big and juicy looking booger, then hold it up to the light to examine it more closely, then finally pop it into their mouths and eat it with a mouth smacking sound and a grunt of pleasure.
> 
> The foregoing notwithstanding, I'd prefer to watch someone eat boogers while I'm eating lunch than to look at a  tattooed face.



And that is exactly what it is - your preference. It doesn't give you the right to legislate against either party, as some would have it.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

> You seem to have a rage-on for these tatted/pierced folks. Why not just live and let live, you'll reduce the amount of acids your stomach is churning out.




Rage-on is putting it a bit strongly, but yes I think facial tattoos and multi-piercings are obscene.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Rage-on is putting it a bit strongly, but yes I think facial tattoos and multi-piercings are obscene.



I think we got that. 

Now to me, 400-pound guys in Aussie budgie-smugglers is obscene. There should be laws against THAT!


----------



## Big Horn (Feb 13, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> And that is exactly what it is - your preference. It doesn't give you the right to legislate against either party, as some would have it.


I'm not trying to legislate anything.  I simply find these people disgusting and psychotic so I don't wish to be around them.


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 13, 2018)

My goodness, on this thread, at least, reality is perception. Loll.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> And you would be content being a person like that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I know more than just a little bit about the restaurant business, and I can tell you that the chances of someone being hired in a high-end restaurant as a Maitre D, captain, waiter, bartender, or busboy, when that person has facial tattoos and/or multi facial piercings is --- zero.
It would absolutely freak-out the customers.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 13, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> I'm not trying to legislate anything.



I know. That's why I said "some people".



> I simply find these people disgusting and psychotic so I don't wish to be around them.



I hope you have a mobile home.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I know more than just a little bit about the restaurant business, and I can tell you that the chances of someone being hired in a high-end restaurant as a Matre D, captain, waiter, bartender, or busboy, when that person has facial tattoos and/or multi facial piercings is --- zero.
> It would absolutely freak-out the customers.



And technically I believe that is illegal.

I'm sure they tell them at the interview that they don't have enough experience or their credit check came back bad.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

sifuphil said:


> and technically i believe that is illegal.
> 
> I'm sure they tell them at the interview that they don't have enough experience or their credit check came back bad.




bingo !


----------



## Gary O' (Feb 13, 2018)

Seems this thread has evolved toward a moral issue thing
and it's been proven thru the centuries rather tough to legislate, or regulate

Opinions? Go for it

Force?

How?

Castigation?
Groupies?
Segregation?

Seems a giant step backward

Please proceed (my popcorn is ready)


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Seems this thread has evolved toward a moral issue thing
> and it's been proven thru the centuries rather tough to legislate, or regulate
> 
> Opinions? Go for it
> ...




The Pennsylvania Dutch have a way of dealing with such problems. It's called, shunning. 

As far as taking a giant step backwards is concerned, the people who get full facial tattoos have taken a giant step backwards into the primeval past, like something out of a jungle nightmare.


----------



## Gary O' (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> The Pennsylvania Dutch have a way of dealing with such problems. It's called, shunning.
> 
> As far as taking a giant step backwards is concerned, the people who get full facial tattoos have taken a giant step backwards into the primeval past, like something out of a jungle nightmare.



'Shunning'
Sounds a tad Amish
No backwards step there, right?

'...something out of a jungle nightmare'

an opinion

your nightmare

so?

What do you suppose others should do about your nightmare?


----------



## Ruthanne (Feb 13, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Seems this thread has evolved toward a moral issue thing
> and it's been proven thru the centuries rather tough to legislate, or regulate
> 
> Opinions? Go for it
> ...


I know what you mean Gary artytime:I still say to each his/her own!  I personally would not tattoo as much as some would but what is the big deal if someone else does it?  Geez.


----------



## Gary O' (Feb 13, 2018)

Ruthanne said:


> I know what you mean Gary artytime:I still say to each his/her own!  I personally would not tattoo as much as some would but what is the big deal if someone else does it?  Geez.



Well, I'm watching a movie, writing, popping in here to check for a response 
Only been 30-40 minutes

no matter
google takes awhile sometimes 

and

I don't expect a direct answer, anyway


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> 'Shunning'
> Sounds a tad Amish
> No backwards step there, right?
> 
> ...




Of course it's an opinion. What else could it be ?

What do I suppose others should do ?  I don't suppose anything. If some people support a return to the jungle, there is nothing I can do about that.


----------



## Gary O' (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Of course it's an opinion. What else could it be ?
> 
> What do I suppose others should do ?  I don't suppose anything. If some people support a return to the jungle, there is nothing I can do about that.



Help me out here, you may have mentioned it already, but I missed it...what's the point of this thread...or....is there no point?


----------



## SeaBreeze (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I know more than just a little bit about the restaurant business, and I can tell you that the chances of someone being hired in a high-end restaurant as a Maitre D, captain, waiter, bartender, or busboy, when that person has facial tattoos and/or multi facial piercings is --- zero.
> It would absolutely freak-out the customers.



I agree Traveler, imagine this gal coming to your table and asking, "Would you like some more bread, or fresh pepper on your salad?" _ That _would be something to remember!


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

seabreeze said:


> i agree traveler, imagine this gal coming to your table and asking, "would you like some more bread, or fresh pepper on your salad?" _ that _would be something to remember!  :d


*
OH, MY GOD* !   If i walked into a restuarant and saw that "*thing*" , I'd demand to see the owner and ask him if he was out of his freakin' mind.  
I've seen some extremely bizarre things in my life, but *that* *thing takes the cake for the most disgusting.
Can you even begin to imagine what is going on in her mind? 
*


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

gary o' said:


> help me out here, you may have mentioned it already, but i missed it...what's the point of this thread...or....is there no point?




If you don't know by now, I can't help you.  But, thank you for reminding me why I moved out of Portland.  Actually, it would be more accurate to say, "fled from".


----------



## Gary O' (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> If you don't know by now, I can't help you.  But, thank you for reminding me why I moved out of Portland.  Actually, it would be more accurate to say, "fled from".


Ah, evasion
surprise surprise 

and I was ready to fill in for you
possibly just trying to find the pulse of what is called civilization
to determine where oneself fits

I was hoping my curiosity would prove worthy
but
alas
never a challenge met
three threads
three strikes

circumvention; the musical instrument of the tone deaf


the popcorn has gone stale


----------



## Dragonlady (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> People who support the concept of full facial tattoos and bizarre facial piercings seem to be saying, 'It's their body and they have a right to do with it as they please'.   If so, then I ask if it is also perfectly acceptable to sneeze without any attempt to cover it, just spray all over everyone ?  Or how about if you are in a restaurant, enjoying your meal, and some jerk at the next table lets out the loudest belch you ever heard ? Or how about you are at a restaurant, dining with someone, and you see him picking his nose and wiping it on his sleeve. Wouldn't you be grossed out ? If you answered yes, then I ask you, why? After all, it's his body, shouldn't he be allowed to do whatever he wants to do with it.?
> 
> Society has unwritten rules for civilized behavior. When people start doing any darn thing they please, any time they darn well feel like it, then society begins to crumble.


+

"unwritten rules"change over time and depend on the location of the supposed infraction. If society is so fragile a few tattoos will crumble it, there is BIG trouble anyway and if a person wants full face tattoos, they are probably willing to take the consequences in terms of social sanctions. You find it offensive - don't look - because they do have the right to have full face tattoos - and you have no say!


----------



## Dragonlady (Feb 13, 2018)

anyone who's had kids is fully aware of the "Booger" scenario and hardly ruffled by it


----------



## Dragonlady (Feb 13, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Help me out here, you may have mentioned it already, but I missed it...what's the point of this thread...or....is there no point?


Like most threads he offered - to air his various grievances


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> Like most threads he offered - to air his various grievances




Sorry to disappoint you.  I shall endeavor to post something simpler to understand.  Perhaps I might write about "what kind of hamburgers do people like ?


----------



## Dragonlady (Feb 13, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Sorry to disappoint you.  I shall endeavor to post something simpler to understand.  Perhaps I might write about "what kind of hamburgers do people like ?



No one said you can't - just called a spade a spade!


----------



## Traveler (Feb 13, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> +
> 
> If society is so fragile a few tattoos will crumble it, there is BIG trouble anyway.
> 
> You find it offensive - don't look




When pieces of concrete begin to fall out of a house foundation, it is time to take serious note. When the walls of the house begin to get "out of plumb", it is a strong indicator of a much more serious problem. Bit by bit this country is falling apart. Full facial tattoos is but one example, out of thousands of examples.

Once something is seen, it can not be unseen.  So, not looking is not an option. 


Will Durant, arguably the 20 century's pre-eminent historian,  once wrote, *" No great civilization is destroyed from without, until it has destroyed itself from within".*   We are doing exactly that.


----------



## Gary O' (Feb 14, 2018)

Traveler said:


> *
> OH, MY GOD* !   If i walked into a restuarant and saw that "*thing*" , I'd demand to see the owner and ask him if he was out of his freakin' mind.
> I've seen some extremely bizarre things in my life, but *that* *thing takes the cake for the most disgusting.
> Can you even begin to imagine what is going on in her mind?
> *





Traveler said:


> I suppose it all depends upon on how a person looks at life.  I've always wanted to experience everything life has to offer and if that means taking some risks, then so be it.  Having lived in S.E. Asia for 7 years, and in Mexico for 6 years, I don't worry about what MIGHT happen. The reward is that I have lived life to the fullest.



....rather enigmatic, don'tcha think?


----------



## Dragonlady (Feb 14, 2018)

Traveler said:


> When pieces of concrete begin to fall out of a house foundation, it is time to take serious note. When the walls of the house begin to get "out of plumb", it is a strong indicator of a much more serious problem. Bit by bit this country is falling apart. Full facial tattoos is but one example, out of thousands of examples.
> 
> Once something is seen, it can not be unseen.  So, not looking is not an option.
> 
> ...



alarmist nonsense - the self destruction lies elsewhere, but we are not allowed to mention it
A


----------



## hearlady (Feb 14, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Help me out here, you may have mentioned it already, but I missed it...what's the point of this thread...or....is there no point?


I have to disagree with you on this one Gary. It's interesting why people would cover themselves with permanent tattoos. 
Has anyone ever watched any of the shows called "ink" or such as that? They're reality shows. I turned in one time flipping through channels. I would advise it if you would like to get a glimpse into that world. 
My dad was a tattoo artist in the 30's, 40's as a side job. Very different back then. But it's been around a long time.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 14, 2018)

Traveler said:


> ... Will Durant, arguably the 20 century's pre-eminent historian, once wrote, *" No great civilization is destroyed from without, until it has destroyed itself from within".* We are doing exactly that.



One might interpret that in this context as meaning that the aversion to facial tats and piercings is the "destruction from within" - from within our own minds. 

Once that is accomplished, the rest of our world will be "destroyed" because of all the bad feelings it evokes in us.


----------



## Sunny (Feb 14, 2018)

> alarmist nonsense - the self destruction lies elsewhere, but we are not allowed to mention it



Bingo!


----------



## Gary O' (Feb 14, 2018)

hearlady said:


> I have to disagree with you on this one Gary. It's interesting why people would cover themselves with permanent tattoos.
> Has anyone ever watched any of the shows called "ink" or such as that? They're reality shows. I turned in one time flipping through channels. I would advise it if you would like to get a glimpse into that world.
> My dad was a tattoo artist in the 30's, 40's as a side job. Very different back then. But it's been around a long time.


No argument
Tattooing is interesting
I don’t have any
Seems moles, splotches, weird itchy spots in certain places of my being, and pubic hair taking residence around my ear lobe pretty much have things covered 
Considering a connect the dots tat, however 

No, I believe the OP’s intent was a bit deeper than ink
Even though the point remains in a grey, possibly blue area, undefined.
When challenged to be specific, the OP goes into snide gear
Claiming the questioner is beyond ability to understand
Typical pseudo intellectual stuff 
There is, however, a common thread of insinuation, possibly leading the reader to agree or argue
The only definite is the subject is polar, fractional
Like the other two or three
Leads me to ask for the point
On a personal note, I’ve got some definite direction this morn from a winter storm blowing in.
Gotta tend things
Hope to pop back in this evening
If I still have a cabin
These lodge pole pine trees are a bit stunted at this elevation, and tend to snap in high winds

Oh, last night I started to get poetic and depictive on the subject

I’ll try to find it


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 14, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> ... When challenged to be specific, the OP goes into snide gear



Which of course is just a quick double-clutch away from overbear gear ...

Good luck with the storm. Hope your wikiup survives.


----------



## Gary O' (Feb 14, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Which of course is just a quick double-clutch away from overbear gear ...
> 
> Good luck with the storm. Hope your wikiup survives.



held at 80 mph last year

a friend down the path can fall a leaner on a dime
had him drop a couple large ones that were listing the wrong direction
reduces the angst a bit
(he's heavily tattooed, btw)

oh, here's a creation I played with last night







and some verbiage
a bit poetic, but trite, to stay with the theme of this thread
(forgive me);

If
There were mostly facial adorned 
Would there be a chef
A waiter
A patron
A restaurant? 
Would only the bare faced be scorned?
Would the critic still have a beef
Even if corned?

(groaning recommended)


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 14, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> held at 80 mph last year
> 
> a friend down the path can fall a leaner on a dime
> had him drop a couple large ones that were listing the wrong direction
> ...


Love it!


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 14, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> held at 80 mph last year



Whoa. :cower:



> a friend down the path can fall a leaner on a dime
> had him drop a couple large ones that were listing the wrong direction
> reduces the angst a bit
> (he's heavily tattooed, btw)



Oh, if he's heavily tatooed then I wouldn't trust him. 



> oh, here's a creation I played with last night



You're a sick man.

I like that in my friends. 





> and some verbiage
> a bit poetic, but trite, to stay with the theme of this thread
> (forgive me);
> 
> ...




*Groan* layful:


----------



## Traveler (Feb 14, 2018)

*Bit by bit, just like termites, they destroy. Bit by bit, we edge ever closer to anarchy. Bit by bit, the edifice of our civilization crumbles. Bit by bit, our culture, hated by a minority, disintegrates.  Bit by bit, they eat away. Bit by bit, until all that remains is --- dust.*


----------



## treeguy64 (Feb 14, 2018)

As the former founder/owner/operator of the first licensed tattoo (and body piercing) shop in the State of Texas, I can tell you that everyone has different reasons for getting tattoos and piercings.  There is not a "typical" tattooed and/or pierced person.  I tattooed Oscar winning people, billionaires, and "regular" folks.  All had their own, unique ideas about their tattoos and piercings.  I did not do facial tattoos, because I felt that those tattoos could, possibly, hurt a person's chances of finding meaningful employment.  However, I knew folks with facial tattoos, and they all had different personalities from each other.  If tattoos and/or piercings bother you, then you are free to look the other way and go about your business.


----------



## RadishRose (Feb 14, 2018)




----------



## Traveler (Feb 14, 2018)

treeguy64 said:


> As the former founder/owner/operator of the first licensed tattoo (and body piercing) shop in the State of Texas, I can tell you that everyone has different reasons for getting tattoos and piercings.  There is not a "typical" tattooed and/or pierced person.  I tattooed Oscar winning people, billionaires, and "regular" folks.  All had their own, unique ideas about their tattoos and piercings.  I did not do facial tattoos, because I felt that those tattoos could, possibly, hurt a person's chances of finding meaningful employment.  However, I knew folks with facial tattoos, and they all had different personalities from each other.  If tattoos and/or piercings bother you, then you are free to look the other way and go about your business.




Oh, I do look away. But as I've said before, what has been seen, can not be unseen. 

I don't want to be anywhere near them. If one of those "creatures", I can't call them human, gets on the bus, I get off.  If one enters a place where I am eating, I exit. If one of my grandchildren were to ever do such a bizarre thing, I'd instantly sever all contact --- forever.


----------



## Sunny (Feb 14, 2018)

Traveler, obviously you have the right to whatever feelings you have.  But other people also have the right to "decorate" their own bodies as they wish. You can call it a violation of "good taste" (whatever that means), but it is not a violation of your rights.  How someone chooses to look is simply no one else's business.

For whatever it's worth, I also consider tattoos a primitive kind of self-mutilation, and I think those people covered in tattoos are hideous. But I have absolutely no right to do anything about it, other than look away.


----------



## hearlady (Feb 14, 2018)

treeguy64 said:


> As the former founder/owner/operator of the first licensed tattoo (and body piercing) shop in the State of Texas, I can tell you that everyone has different reasons for getting tattoos and piercings.  There is not a "typical" tattooed and/or pierced person.  I tattooed Oscar winning people, billionaires, and "regular" folks.  All had their own, unique ideas about their tattoos and piercings.  I did not do facial tattoos, because I felt that those tattoos could, possibly, hurt a person's chances of finding meaningful employment.  However, I knew folks with facial tattoos, and they all had different personalities from each other.  If tattoos and/or piercings bother you, then you are free to look the other way and go about your business.



When I did see a reality show about a tattoo shop  (can't remember which one) I was struck how many got tattoos as a memorial to dead loved ones.


Gary, watch out for the storm!


----------



## Traveler (Feb 14, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Traveler, obviously you have the right to whatever feelings you have.  But other people also have the right to "decorate" their own bodies as they wish. You can call it a violation of "good taste" (whatever that means), but it is not a violation of your rights.  How someone chooses to look is simply no one else's business.
> 
> For whatever it's worth, I also consider tattoos a primitive kind of self-mutilation, and I think those people covered in tattoos are hideous. But I have absolutely no right to do anything about it, other than look away.





Sunny, you may very well be right.  The only thing I can compare it to is an event that happened to me many years ago.  I was walking down the street and up ahead I noticed a picketing group. I didn't pay any attention to them. Just as I was passing by, a woman rushed up to me carrying a large poster on a stick. She flashed the poster at me from just 3 feet away. The poster had a large color photograph of a late 3rd term, dead, bloody, infant that had been aborted via "partial birth abortion".  To say that it was gory does not begin to describe the scene. 

I immediately turned my head but, having seen it, I could not un-see it. My stomach turned and I thought I'd vomit. I suppose there are people who would say the woman had a right to do that to me. I, however view it as a violation of my emotions.

That is how I feel when confronted with a hideous full facial tattoo. I feel violated.


----------



## treeguy64 (Feb 14, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Oh, I do look away. But as I've said before, what has been seen, can not be unseen.
> 
> I don't want to be anywhere near them. If one of those "creatures", I can't call them human, gets on the bus, I get off.  If one enters a place where I am eating, I exit. If one of my grandchildren were to ever do such a bizarre thing, I'd instantly sever all contact --- forever.



I actually feel sorry for you.  Tattooed people are certainly creatures, being living members of H. sapiens.  Guess what, you are a creature, too.  It's a shame your tolerance level is so low, though.  As for your grandchildren, if they're older than seventeen, the odds are that at least one of them already has tattoos and/or piercings, maybe several of both!  Ooh - - -Shocking!


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 14, 2018)

treeguy64 said:


> I actually feel sorry for you.  Tattooed people are certainly creatures, being living members of H. sapiens.  Guess what, you are a creature, too.  It's a shame your tolerance level is so low, though.  As for your grandchildren, if they're older than seventeen, the odds are that at least one of them already has tattoos and/or piercings, maybe several of both!  Ooh - - -Shocking!


I sport a nose stud, and a hidden tattoo, as I have mentioned. Sometimes I even wear a small nose ring to work! No one cares, it goes well with the embroidered Indian outfits I also often wear.


----------



## Sunny (Feb 14, 2018)

> Sunny, you may very well be right.  The only thing I can compare it to is an event that happened to me many years ago.  I was walking down the street and up ahead I noticed a picketing group. I didn't pay any attention to them. Just as I was passing by, a woman rushed up to me carrying a large poster on a stick. She flashed the poster at me from just 3 feet away. The poster had a large color photograph of a late 3rd term, dead, bloody, infant that had been aborted via "partial birth abortion".  To say that it was gory does not begin to describe the scene.
> 
> I immediately turned my head but, having seen it, I could not un-see it. My stomach turned and I thought I'd vomit. I suppose there are people who would say the woman had a right to do that to me. I, however view it as a violation of my emotions.
> 
> That is how I feel when confronted with a hideous full facial tattoo. I feel violated.​



I don't think the two things are even remotely comparable. The biggest difference is in their intentions. The woman shoving a poster of an aborted fetus at you, from 3 feet away, was trying to shock you and force her religious/political views on you. She was deliberately being cruel and provocative, in an attempt to get an emotional rise out of you.

The person wearing a tattoo that you (and I) find ugly is decorating his/her own body. They are not deliberately trying to make you nauseated, shocked, outraged, etc.  If those are your reactions to seeing a tattoo, that is your own problem, not something they are doing to you. In all likelihood, they couldn't care less whether you see their tattoo, or whether you like it.

Do you see the difference. The anti-abortion lady is deliberately intruding into your space, trying to provoke you. The tattooed guy is decorating his own body, with no interest in you at all.


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## Traveler (Feb 14, 2018)

Sunny said:


> I don't think the two things are even remotely comparable. The biggest difference is in their intentions. The woman shoving a poster of an aborted fetus at you, from 3 feet away, was trying to shock you and force her religious/political views on you. She was deliberately being cruel and provocative, in an attempt to get an emotional rise out of you.
> 
> The person wearing a tattoo that you (and I) find ugly is decorating his/her own body. They are not deliberately trying to make you nauseated, shocked, outraged, etc.  If those are your reactions to seeing a tattoo, that is your own problem, not something they are doing to you. In all likelihood, they couldn't care less whether you see their tattoo, or whether you like it.
> 
> Do you see the difference. The anti-abortion lady is deliberately intruding into your space, trying to provoke you. The tattooed guy is decorating his own body, with no interest in you at all.




Sunny,  we may be taking about different things. You mention my seeing "a tattoo" that is very different from full facial tattoos. I honestly believe that anyone getting their entire face, head, neck tattooed *IS *try to provoke me. At the very least trying to shock or perhaps intimidate me.  It is well established that gang members use full facial tattoos to intimidate and frighten people.

 Lest people forget what I'm talking about. These guys are members of MS-13.  Perhaps the most violent gang in all of North America. Using machettes to chop people up is common.


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## Traveler (Feb 14, 2018)

Suppose I got a notion in my head to wear a Viking helmet ? I'd look pretty darn ridiculous. People would think there was something wrong with me.  And they'd be right. There is something VERY, VERY WRONG with guys like the previous post # 198.


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## Big Horn (Feb 14, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I sport a nose stud, and a hidden tattoo, as I have mentioned. Sometimes I even wear a small nose ring to work! No one cares, it goes well with the embroidered Indian outfits I also often wear.


As memory serves, you also think that marijuana is just fine.


----------



## Big Horn (Feb 14, 2018)

Traveler said:


> View attachment 48585Suppose I got a notion in my head to wear a Viking helmet ? I'd look pretty darn ridiculous. People would think there was something wrong with me.  And they'd be right. There is something VERY, VERY WRONG with guys like the previous post # 198.


There is a big difference.  You can remove the helmet.  I'd just assume that you were being harmlessly silly if I saw you wearing it, but if I saw the two specimens in the previous post, I'd be ready for trouble.  So would any cop who saw them.


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 14, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> As memory serves, you also think that marijuana is just fine.


What does this have to do with piercings and tattoos?


----------



## Dragonlady (Feb 14, 2018)

The "old fogy" group has been decrying the demise of civilization over almost anything "new or far out" that is introduced
into various societies for centuries and most of them managed to live for a long time after and when they did go belly up, it was for unrelated reasons.


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 14, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> The "old fogy" group has been decrying the demise of civilization over almost anything "new or far out" that is introduced
> into various societies for centuries and most of them managed to live for a long time after and when they did go belly up, it was for unrelated reasons.



Many psychologists link this attitude to the inability of some to come to terms with their own mortality, and the increasing loss of relevance/power  in many areas as they age, coupled with a rose coloured view of a perfect past which never existed outside their own imaginings. The more inflexible the mindset, the greater the chance of a doomsday outlook.


----------



## Seeker (Feb 14, 2018)

I admit I have not read all these post but here is my input.  I'm not against tattoos. For me it was (I have none) don't go gettin' tattoos until you are sure that they are something you want/can live with for the rest of your life. My daughter has done it mostly on rebellion against us, not letting her get one before she turned 18. Now her beautiful tattoo of a butterfly on her stomach after 5 children has turned into a big huge wilted smudge of a mess. She regrets it. Also respects our opinions now. Just sayin' (there I go again)


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## SifuPhil (Feb 14, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> As memory serves, you also think that marijuana is just fine.



*whispers*

I've heard she takes Ibuprofen as well.


----------



## treeguy64 (Feb 14, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> As memory serves, you also think that marijuana is just fine.



Hmm, the last time I checked, it basically was/is, for most people.


----------



## Dragonlady (Feb 14, 2018)

> The more inflexible the mindset, the greater the chance of a doomsday outlook.



Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Big Horn (Feb 14, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> As memory serves, you also think that marijuana is just fine.





Shalimar said:


> What does this have to do with piercings and tattoos?


They both indicate irresponsibility.  I'm sure that both are very popular among prison inmates, street gang members, and similar.


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## Shalimar (Feb 14, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> They both indicate irresponsibility.  I'm sure that both are very popular among prison inmates, street gang members, and similar.


I am certain it cannot possibly be your intent to suggest that I am irresponsible, or affiliated with such people.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 14, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> They both indicate irresponsibility. I'm sure that both are very popular among prison inmates, street gang members, and similar.



Yeah, those irresponsible cancer patients and epileptics using all that weed - disgusting!


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## IKE (Feb 14, 2018)

Tattoos are only for bikers, gang members, hardcore dopers, old sailors and big pot bellied Polynesian islanders.

I no longer own a motorcycle, I've never been in a organized gang, I don't do dope and I'm not overly fond of boats.

OMG !........that means I'm a big pot bellied Polynesian islander !!


----------



## Olivia (Feb 14, 2018)

The way a person presents him/herself to the world says something about him/her themselves and how they view the world and other people. And the way people view other people in all their diversity also says something about that how they view the world. And most of how we think depends a lot on our own experiences and where we're from and how we're raised. So it's not surprising that we're going to have differing opinions and judgments about most things.


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## RadishRose (Feb 14, 2018)

IKE said:


> Tattoos are only for bikers, gang members, hardcore dopers, old sailors and big pot bellied Polynesian islanders.
> 
> I no longer own a motorcycle, I've never have been in a organized gang, I don't do dope and I'm not overly fond of boats.
> 
> OMG !........I'm a big pot bellied Polynesian islander !!


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 14, 2018)

IKE said:


> OMG !........that means I'm a big pot bellied Polynesian islander !!



Note the tats ...


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## Shalimar (Feb 14, 2018)

Olivia said:


> The way a person presents him/herself to the world says something about him/her themselves and how they view the world and other people. And the way people view other people in all their diversity also says something about that how they view the world. And most of how we think depends a lot on our own experiences and where we're from and how we're raised. So it's not surprising that we're going to have differing opinions and judgments about most things.


You reason like a counselor. Come work with me!


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## Olivia (Feb 14, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> You reason like a counselor. Come work with me!



I could never do what you do, Shalimar.  I'm too much of a vacillator.  I'd be agonizing all the time.


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## Shalimar (Feb 14, 2018)

Olivia said:


> I could never do what you do, Shalimar.  I'm too much of a vacillator.  I'd be agonizing all the time.


I think in the beginning, most of us vacillate to some degree. The capacity to keep a certain distance comes with experience. That said, I have been reduced to tears on many occasions, just not in front of my clients.


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## Gary O' (Feb 14, 2018)

Traveler said:


> View attachment 48585Suppose I got a notion in my head to wear a Viking helmet ? I'd look pretty darn ridiculous. People would think there was something wrong with me.  And they'd be right. There is something VERY, VERY WRONG with guys like the previous post # 198.



Heh, I just logged on and saw this, and it's post #198


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## Olivia (Feb 14, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I think in the beginning, most of us vacillate to some degree. The capacity to keep a certain distance comes with experience. That said, I have been reduced to tears on many occasions, just not in front of my clients.



I can really understand that. What you do is far from easy.


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## Traveler (Feb 14, 2018)

Photo of your grand-daughter's fiancée. Isn't he just darling ?


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## SifuPhil (Feb 14, 2018)

Traveler said:


> View attachment 48611 Photo of your grand-daughter's fiancée. Isn't he just darling ?



At least she'll be able to lead him around easily. 

He sort of looks like a walrus.


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## Sunny (Feb 15, 2018)

Could be worse. That could be the granddaughter!


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## Traveler (Feb 15, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Could be worse. That could be the granddaughter!




:lofl: Good one !


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## Falcon (Feb 15, 2018)

Nose rings  have  gotta be VERY   Unsanitary;  Especially  when you have a cold !


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## CindyLouWho (Feb 15, 2018)

Oh, how true, Falcon......what a visual......ick.


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## KingsX (Feb 15, 2018)

.

UK news article about the 2015 international tattoo expo in Venezuela  - *bizarre photos at link below*


*Forked tongues, vampire teeth and tattooed eyeballs... More stomach-churning pictures from tattoo expo where extreme body modification takes place as you watch *

"   It's the show which celebrates some of the most extreme body modification imaginable… and should you be uncomfortable with having your eyeball tattooed then look away now.

These unsettling pictures show in excruciating close-up every detail of the process, carried out at this year's Venezuela Tattoo Expo in Caracas, which bills itself as being the biggest event of its kind in Latin America. "

*Bizarre photos at link*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dy-mod-enthusiasts-gather-expo-Venezuela.html


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## Traveler (Feb 15, 2018)

I'll take a pass on viewing that link. Thank you for the warning.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 26, 2018)

*Eva Tiamat Baphomet Medusa

*Just came across this. You might want to skip this is you are easily offended or grossed out by body mods. 

Tiamat is becoming a dragon.


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## Shalimar (Feb 26, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> *Eva Tiamat Baphomet Medusa
> 
> *Just came across this. You might want to skip this is you are easily offended or grossed out by body mods.
> 
> Tiamat is becoming a dragon.


If that is what it takes for this being to heal from horrendous childhood  abandonment issues, I am supportive. Sure beats becoming a substance abuser, or embracing suicide.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 26, 2018)




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## Traveler (Feb 26, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> If that is what it takes for this being to heal from horrendous childhood  abandonment issues, I am supportive. Sure beats becoming a substance abuser, or embracing suicide.




Words can't possibly express my disgust at that... that.... *thing.  What ever it is, it sure ain't human.*


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## RadishRose (Feb 26, 2018)

The Dragon Lady- Bizarre for sure. Also sad for being abandoned. "It" as she wants to be called, seems like a nice person. The kids like her and I find that I do, too.


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## IKE (Mar 1, 2018)

How would you gals like to give this handsome fella a smooch ?


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## Gary O' (Mar 1, 2018)

After viewing some comments here, I did some reading on tattoos and such

then realized....._*books are tattooed dead trees!!!*_


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## jujube (Mar 1, 2018)

Another tattooed lady here.  I have one, although I'd have to be running down the street naked at high noon for anyone to be offended by it.  Not much chance of that happening, these days....LOL.


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## jujube (Mar 1, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Oh, I do look away. But as I've said before, what has been seen, can not be unseen.
> 
> I don't want to be anywhere near them. If one of those "creatures", I can't call them human, gets on the bus, I get off.  If one enters a place where I am eating, I exit.  *If one of my grandchildren were to ever do such a bizarre thing, I'd instantly sever all contact --- forever*.



That is truly sad.  Though I'm not at all surprised.


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## James (Mar 1, 2018)

Have a couple of tats.  Also had my ear pierced.  Had it done when I worked in the drug unit.


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## Traveler (Mar 1, 2018)

jujube said:


> That is truly sad.  Though I'm not at all surprised.




Why be surprised ?  Some people have limits about what is acceptable behavior.  Others have no limits at all.


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## Leonie (Mar 1, 2018)

My youngest son and I had a right royal falling out over him getting his first tattoo. He was underage at the time. He has multiple tattoos now and I barely notice them. He can cover them up though if he chooses to and has said he would always cover them up if he was applying for a job. His soon to be wife has tattoos too. The tattoos are beautifully done, but not something I would choose, he is into heavy metal and she is into punk, so you get the idea, skulls and the like.

Some tattoos are quite beautiful these days, not like they were years ago. I think if I was a young woman now I would probably have one, (or two) - butterflies and flowers hippie sort of thing. Come to think of it, I actually toyed with the idea of getting one, (a small butterfly), back in my long lost hippie days, gee it must have been 40 years ago. Never did get around to it.  Probably a good thing.

I have seen pictures of tattoos being used to cover up scars, turning something sort of ugly, into something beautiful.  My kids were Cesarean babies of the early 70's.  If tattoos back then were as well done and as beautiful as they are today I would have definitely gone for that.

I'm not so keen on the more bizarre body modifications, those big holes in earlobes are becoming more and more common around here. Not sure I'll ever get to a stage where I barely notice them, but you never know.


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## Warrigal (Mar 2, 2018)

I can't say that I like extensive tattoos. One of my nieces has a number and they are not what I would call beautiful but my niece is a very loving young woman with a passion for social justice. I must look beyond the wrapping to see the inner gift, and be grateful.

For what it is worth, I am equally unhappy with extensive cosmetic surgery. The woman who has progressively transformed herself into Barbie is a very sad case IMO but I have no idea about her character.

https://www.gq.com/story/valeria-lukyanova-human-barbie-doll


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## Traveler (Mar 2, 2018)

Millions of women choose to enhance their natural beauty.  It may be that she is attempting to fend off impending age.  Cher is a classic example of that. Cher, the ultimate diva, seems quite happy with all of the cosmetic surgery she has had done. I'd be willing to bet that Cher has *tremendous *depth of character. I for one, would give anything to sit and talk with her. I don't find that what Cher has done, to be the least bit sad.  

I find a great difference between mutilating ones body, and the desire to be beautiful.

P.S.  As I have said numerous times, I do not think that a few obscure tattoo's is mutilation.


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## MarciKS (Dec 5, 2020)

I know cancer patients sometimes get their bald heads tattooed as opposed to being bald. Some abused women have had their scars tattooed to cover them up. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Sunny (Dec 5, 2020)

This is an old thread. I wonder if it's still as much of an issue. Probably most of the establishments that offer these "body enhancements" are closed.


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## Ronni (Dec 5, 2020)

@Sunny My tattoo gal and her shop was closed down for several months after Covid became such a big issue. I was grateful they had opened back up by the time Ron and I were ready for our marriage tattoos.

The shop protocols had changed considerably since the last time I’d been in several years before. They’d eliminated the waiting area in the front which had been very nicely decorated with couch and loveseat and some gorgeous art. Folks were now required to wait in their cars. Most of the art was still on the walls, but the reception desk had been moved all the way to the front to make room for the tattooists to have their stations about 8 feet apart.

Our temperatures were taken, masks were required, everything was scrupulously sterilized (that part hadn’t changed.) Caitlyn told me their regular health inspections had become more frequent since Covid, and they weren’t allowed to re-open at all until they’d been thoroughly inspected.

So, yeah, Covid changed things a lot. She told me some of the studios just couldn’t survive the shut down and had gone completely out of business


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## Packerjohn (Dec 5, 2020)

I don't have any tattoos & will never get one.  I think they are ugly.  I remember what my now deceased wife used to say, "Wait till these young people get old, then you'll really see what ugly is".  Maybe there are just too many huge urban cities around & the world is just getting too crazy and over-crowded.  Thank goodness that Covid-19 is getting the population under control again.  As why young people are doing this; I would think the mass media is promoting it.  A lot of them are "uglier than sin" but fortunately, I wouldn't be around here for too many more years to see more of this crap!


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## Ronni (Dec 5, 2020)

I have to say, I’m unpleasantly surprised at the degree of judgment and condemnation I’ve read in this thread. 

I support 100% one’s right to one’s opinion. To say that you don’t like the look or it’s something you could never do yourself or that you consider the body art ugly is your opinion.

To pass judgment on the tattoed person, to says they’re psychotic or crazy or have low self esteem or whatever else has been said here is offensive to me, and not because I have some ink myself. It’s offensive to me because of the condemnation of the inked person, the “holier than thou” attitude exhibited by some of the posters, the conclusions drawn as to the inked person’s character or state of mind or mental capacity.

Who are you to pass judgment? What right have you?

it’s the difference between “I find that offensive and ugly” and “YOU are offensive and ugly”. The first statement offers your opinion, while the second is rude and discourteous, and passes judgment and is condemnatory.

It’s a nuanced difference, and that’s lost on some of you. Clearly subtlety and tact is not your strong suit.


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## fuzzybuddy (Dec 5, 2020)

I don't think it is a purely ethnic  activity. I'm seeing this in all 20-30  aged people- both men & women. It does seem that tattooing is assuming more and more of the body. There was a time when tattoos were abled to be clothed over. But then it was kind of fashionable to have some kind of tattoo peaking out the collar on the neck. Then tattoos progressed to having always visible ones on the side of the neck  to behind the ear and to mid nape. And tatts began to be seen on one hand. Haven't seen the whole body ones yet.
I hate tattoos. I think they mar the beauty of the body. But what gets me is those, who use tatts as a canvas to memorialize their life's milestones. My buddy got a tatt of his girl "Michele". They broke up the day he got the tatt. So now, he has a list of exgirlfriend's  names down his arm. Someday you may not want body artwork of you snorting stuff.


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## win231 (Dec 5, 2020)

Don M. said:


> I suppose there's nothing wrong with a discrete tattoo that can be easily covered with clothing.  However, when I see someone with that Trash all over their bodies, I wonder if they have any "self esteem".


I don't think it's a self esteem issue.  I think it's an attention-craving issue.


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## gennie (Dec 5, 2020)

I personally think tattoos are tacky but that's just my opinion and we're all entitled to our own.  I also think short, tight skirts that threaten to show one's hoohoo are tacky but again, just my opinion.  

There are several people near and dear to me that favor both so maybe  it's a generational thing.


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## Pinky (Dec 5, 2020)

I don't consider tattoos "mutilation", even though some are extensive. Many consider it to be "body art".

I say, to each his own.


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## RadishRose (Dec 5, 2020)

Packerjohn said:


> Maybe there are just too many huge urban cities around & the world is just getting too crazy and over-crowded. *Thank goodness that Covid-19 is getting the population under control again.*


Packerjohn, are you sure you mean what you said here?


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## Ruthanne (Dec 5, 2020)

Personally I don't like the look of most tattoos I've seen on mostly men--not done very well.  There must also be some well done ones on men but I haven't seen them yet.  I have seen some on women that were nice looking art.  I've also seen some beautiful ones on tv and in magazines.  

I thought of getting one to cover up a big scar I have but that was a long time ago.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 5, 2020)

Traveler said:


> It may not be happening where you live, but I live right up against the Mexican border, in the very heart of Hispanic California, and every day I see hundreds and hundreds of people, both male and female, who have mutilated their bodies with dozens of facial piercings, and tattoos.  They are even, if you can imagine it, completely covering every square inch of their faces with tattoos.
> 
> Some of the most bizarre things I've seen are, ear lobes stretched out to the point where a silver dollar can be passed through. Into these opening I see various kinds of "rings" and solid "plugs". I see quite large "nose rings", the kind you might expect on cattle. Tongue, cheek, eye-brow and lip piercings are very common. And so are a dozen or more ear piercings, along the outer rim of the ear which have metal ornamentation.
> 
> ...


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## RiverM55 (Dec 5, 2020)

I've seen some tats over the years that were real beauties but I ain't never had the desire to get one.


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## jerry old (Dec 5, 2020)

Post 17  
Double R, the proper term for  you second picture of the guy with his hair dragging the floor is FREAK.

Post 13-the only place I've seen the total facial tattoos is in Russian Prisons.


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## Chet (Dec 5, 2020)

Just outside the base when I was in the service there was a tattoo parlor. I had considered getting one but never did. The main reason I believe was that I was not yet 21 and you had to be over 21 to drink in that state. If I was able to have a few beers I'm sure I would have ended up with a tattoo. My point is that with the prevalence of drugs in society today, more and more are having their self control slip away hence the tattoos.


----------



## fmdog44 (Dec 5, 2020)

RadishRose said:


> How about the "mono dread"?


We call those "beavers". We catch several every year in our traps. We get good money go the coats.


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## fmdog44 (Dec 5, 2020)

#1 in face tattoos


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## Kadee (Dec 5, 2020)

Not what I’d call mutilation but I find some of the modern looking eyebrows a bit strange  ....
I’m not even sure if that are tattooed or just some sort of liquid they paint on to “get the look” 

Ive seen both male and female with eyebrows like this, some appear to be really thick looking like you could peel them off


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## Pepper (Dec 5, 2020)

I see a frame of only makeup around the hair of her eyebrows, @Kadee46.  So, I guess the brows are shaped and eyebrow color is framed & added.  Looks that way.


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## RadishRose (Dec 5, 2020)

Kadee46 said:


> Not what I’d call mutilation but I find some of the modern looking eyebrows a bit strange  ....
> I’m not even sure if that are tattooed or just some sort of liquid they paint on to “get the look”
> 
> Ive seen both male and female with eyebrows like this, some appear to be really thick looking like you could peel them off
> View attachment 137474


Remember Joan Crawford?


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Dec 5, 2020)

I wonder if the tattoos are gang related.  I've seen body tattoos that are stunning works of art  but I'd never get one. I don't see how people can sit through getting one tattoo let alone several. I hate to see people with piercings in their noses, lips, eyebrows, etc. My grand niece had a facial piercing and it was uncomfortable for me to look at here. I just imagine it must've hurt.  How do you blow your nose with a nose piercing...or kiss with a lip piercing. They can have it!  Gives me the creeps just thinking about it. I never even got my ears pierced.  I *hate* needles!
@Aunt Marg  I have to wonder why would someone want to walk around with hair that sweeps the nasty floors and ground?! It must be a mess to have to wash.


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## Jules (Dec 5, 2020)

There‘re expensive treatments that can remove tattoos.  They take a lot of time and are painful.  

I’ve never read about anything for refilling the monstrous holes that some people create in their ears. Back when this was a new fad, a male store clerk who had a younger woman raving about his replied “I wish I’d never done it.”


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## Treacle (Dec 5, 2020)

delete


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## Fyrefox (Dec 6, 2020)

Quite the thread!  Just another tattooed person here, although mine are all invisible under full clothing, and were professionally done by a well-regarded artist at considerable expense.  They're quite thematic; a small fox even runs over skin normally covered by my watch strap.  A pharmacist commented that a fox on my arm was "extremely well done" as he gave me a vaccination.  I'm not a fan of neck or facial tattoos either, nor piercings for that matter; it's hard not to have the eyes wander to the ear plugs of someone sporting a large set.  But for those of us with "executive tattoos," they are a form of permanent jewelry, and a sign of our personal identity...


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## Irwin (Dec 6, 2020)

In my day (the '70s), we didn't care what we looked like; it was what you created that was important to people who wanted to live outside the mainstream. 

Nobody creates anything culturally significant any more. There are no great novels, no great movies, no great music, no great works of art... But people sure can make themselves look hideous with all their tattoos and piercings.


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## Nathan (Dec 6, 2020)

My daughter has several tattoos, but they are tasteful and discrete.   My son never got any tats- hallelujah!

The pop culture over the past 30 years has had a huge influence on the proliferation of excessive tattoos and piercings.


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## Sassycakes (Dec 6, 2020)

*Although I have never gotten a tattoo, I don't have a problem with anyone getting one. My 2 grandsons have them. What I don't like is someone having ridiculous ugly mutilating tattoos.*


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## jerry old (Dec 6, 2020)

This guy's features look like a hog, an ugly hog, but still a hog.


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## Autumn (Dec 6, 2020)

@hearlady You mentioned tattoos as a memorial to a friend or relative who has passed away.

When my father-in-law died, my nephew (his grandson) got Papa tattooed in big letters on his leg.  The only problem with that is my father-in-law HATED tattoos...my husband said he was probably spinning in his grave...


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