# The Anti People are Wrong!



## Mike (Dec 16, 2020)

There is so much against all Governments Worldwide
about this Covid-19, they don't want to wear a mask,
they don't want to isolate, they don't want to do what
their own Government say to do.

This I believe is caused by the description of symptoms
of the virus, Flu like sniffles, persistent coughs, loss of
taste and smell, each description on its own is a mild
event in most minds, so they think it is a bad case of Flu
and not a killer.

If it was described along the one for Ebola, there would
be no rebellious demonstrations or any need for the
Police to break things up because nobody would be out
on the streets.

It is time that they, the leaders came up with a better way
of describing this Pandemic.

Mike.


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## Warrigal (Dec 16, 2020)

I think it important that the authorities tell it true because any attempt to overstate the symptoms would only cause people to distrust them more. Fear is not a very good motivator IMO.

My motivation is two fold - if I contact the virus and die of it then my husband is widowed and he won't cope very well, but if I don't die of it then I may infect others. If I can I would rather not do that. Either way, I will try to avoid catching if at all possible.

Right now we are waiting for news about our last remaining auntie who is dying. She has had a major stroke and the doctors are waiting for nature to take its course. She has been living in an aged care facility and during the COVID lockdown, when some nursing homes were rather deadly places, and we were unable to visit her for months. At 93 this was very hard on her but the staff managed to keep all of the residents safe from COVID. If they hadn't, the old people would have been dropping like flies. I am grateful to them for the care they lavished on the residents and I think that we should take as much care of each other as we can by modifying our own behaviour and by lining up for vaccination when it becomes available.


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## Mike (Dec 16, 2020)

I am sorry to hear about your Auntie Warrigal.

Most people in here are like you, don't get, but if you
do keep it to yourself.

The protesters are mainly under forty years old I think
and they all feel indestructible.

I didn't mean that the description should be a false one,
but one with more understanding of the severity that it
is, in language that everybody understands, I used Ebola
as an example, if it was so, we would not see anybody
that was against the measures required.

Mike.


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## Warrigal (Dec 16, 2020)

Severe complications from COVID do occur. This is an example of someone who worked in the WH as a Security Chief and he has been hospitalised for 3 months and has had lower limb amputations. He now needs help with expenses and has a GoFundMe page set up by a friend.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/...vere-covid-fight-gofundme-created-97809989698


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## Mike (Dec 16, 2020)

Sad cases like that are kept quiet, Warrigal, all the high
profile ones like President Trump, Prime Minister Johnson,
Prince Charles and Prince William, all came back quickly
from the virus.

That gives the anti people more proof in their eyes that it
is not so bad, unfortunately it is too late now to change
their attitudes.

Mike.


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## StarSong (Dec 16, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Severe complications from COVID do occur. This is an example of someone who worked in the WH as a Security Chief and he has been hospitalised for 3 months and has had lower limb amputations. He now needs help with expenses and has a GoFundMe page set up by a friend.
> 
> https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/...vere-covid-fight-gofundme-created-97809989698


This is horribly shocking.


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## MarciKS (Dec 16, 2020)

They need to quit dinking around with the mere suggestions to wear a mask and talk about the all the horrible things that CAN happen and they need to crack down on the rules for masking and distancing with a no tolerance policy. But they're standing by and just shrugging their shoulders and letting the crap happen.


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## MarciKS (Dec 16, 2020)

Every day our numbers are climbing and our stupid Governor won't do anything about it except run a masking campaign. Like people are gonna see that and think Oh hey! I should mask up! Whatever! It's not gonna happen like that. This is a pandemic not a frickin bedtime story.


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## win231 (Dec 16, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Every day our numbers are climbing and our stupid Governor won't do anything about it except run a masking campaign. Like people are gonna see that and think Oh hey! I should mask up! Whatever! It's not gonna happen like that. This is a pandemic not a frickin bedtime story.


No mask requirement in Kansas?  Here, masks have been required for several months, but.....they keep reporting spiking numbers.


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## Pinky (Dec 16, 2020)

win231 said:


> No mask requirement in Kansas?  Here, masks have been required for several months, but.....they keep reporting spiking numbers.


It doesn't help that bars were open. How can one drink with a mask on .. and people drinking and getting loud are going to social-distance? Our Mayor needs to be tougher.


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## win231 (Dec 16, 2020)

Pinky said:


> It doesn't help that bars were open. How can one drink with a mask on .. and people drinking and getting loud are going to social-distance? Our Mayor needs to be tougher.


Teehee.  I've never met a drinker who is capable of social distancing.
A couple of months ago, I was visiting friends when one of their friends showed up.  I'd met her before & we all like to chat.  She's a drinker.
I said something funny.  She got up, said "Screw Covid, you're awesome," & grabbed me & hugged me.  
Well, I just laughed & said, "Now we both have it."


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## CarolfromTX (Dec 16, 2020)

Everyone I see is wearing a mask. And yet numbers are rising. Why is that? Because people want to socialize. Because loneliness tops fear of the disease. Because we are willing to risk illness rather than be alone.


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## Warrigal (Dec 16, 2020)

If every possible measure is taken to limit virus transmission then it will be 2-3 weeks before the trend of infections turns down and even longer for the death rate. Just wearing a mask is not enough. People don't necessarily wear them properly or constantly after leaving the house. Washable masks need to be washed, surgical masks need to be changed and the mask discarded after a couple of hours.

If I might make this analogy - wearing a mask is partially effective, just like an umbrella. However, an umbrella won't keep you dry in all conditions and circumstances. Sometimes you need galoshes, a mackintosh and a sou'wester as well to be properly protected. For COVID the equivalent extras are social distancing, widespread testing, social isolation/mandatory quarantine and bans of large gatherings. Very hard to get people to agree to these during Summer and holidays. Uninhibited socialisation fuels the case numbers and the death rate. It isn't rocket science. The social restrictions are costly but necessary.


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## Autumn (Dec 16, 2020)

People seem to minimize everything.  How many times have you heard someone say, "It's just the flu"?  Well, back in 2015, my husband caught the flu despite having gotten his flu shot.  He ended up being intubated, on the breathing machine in the ICU for 11 days.  The doctor told me honestly that he didn't know if my husband was going to make it.  Thank God he did.

And I understand that Covid is even worse for many people.  I saw a story in the NY Times about a man who ended up needing a double lung transplant.  

I don't care what anyone says, I've taken it very seriously ever since day one and I'll go on doing so.


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## CarolfromTX (Dec 16, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> Everyone I see is wearing a mask. And yet numbers are rising. Why is that? Because people want to socialize. Because loneliness tops fear of the disease. Because we are willing to risk illness rather than be alone.


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## MarciKS (Dec 16, 2020)

You would rather risk death than sit at home for a while. Good Lord. That's just plain ridiculous. It's not going to kill any of us to spend time alone for a while for crying out loud. You act like you're dying. Get some hobbies and some patience.


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## chic (Dec 16, 2020)

win231 said:


> No mask requirement in Kansas?  Here, masks have been required for several months, but.....they keep reporting spiking numbers.


Ditto. Makes you wonder doesn't it? This is why I continue to believe masking and isolating are not the answer and lockdowns are ridiculous. It's all not working so we need to think of something else.


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## MarciKS (Dec 16, 2020)

chic said:


> Ditto. Makes you wonder doesn't it? This is why I continue to believe masking and isolating are not the answer and lockdowns are ridiculous. It's all not working so we need to think of something else.


Chic there is a mask mandate here but no one enforces it. They merely suggest we follow it. Which they won't because there's no penalty. So they just run around acting all entitled to their own free will. It's not the masks that are the problem. It's the people.


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## MarciKS (Dec 16, 2020)

If everyone would wear their masks and stay home and stay the hell away from everyone this would die down. But God forbid anyone should have to follow rules.


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## chic (Dec 16, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Chic there is a mask mandate here but no one enforces it. They merely suggest we follow it. Which they won't because there's no penalty. So they just run around acting all entitled to their own free will. It's not the masks that are the problem. It's the people.


Where I live, we've had a no mask/no service law in place since April. Clearly masking up is not the answer otherwise why do case numbers continue to rise? No bars are open here either. Indoor dining is almost nonexistent. So it's just not the answer. I don't know what is, but masking doesn't seem to be doing what it's supposed to do. There must be another way. That's all I can say.


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## MarciKS (Dec 16, 2020)

chic said:


> Where I live, we've had a no mask/no service law in place since April. Clearly masking up is not the answer otherwise why do case numbers continue to rise? No bars are open here either. Indoor dining is almost nonexistent. So it's just not the answer. I don't know what is, but masking doesn't seem to be doing what it's supposed to do. There must be another way. That's all I can say.


It's not the answer because it's what they do when they're not masked. Do you understand this?


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## win231 (Dec 16, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> It's not the answer because it's what they do when they're not masked. Do you understand this?


A couple of weeks ago, my sister & I were planning to celebrate an elderly friend's birthday at our house with 3-4 people.  We had to postpone it because we both got colds that evening & we didn't want to give anything to our friends.
What's relevant (and interesting) was that we were puzzled about where we got colds from.  During the 3 days prior, neither of us left the house; we just didn't have anywhere to go.  Before those 3 days, we both wore masks outside & while shopping because they're required here.

So.....since colds are viruses (part of the Coronavirus family, in fact) and we were home for 3 days prior & we wore masks before that, how did we both get colds?  And, if a mask couldn't prevent a cold virus, it couldn't prevent any virus.

What's happening is, people are frustrated, angry & scared & some people deal with those emotions by looking for people to blame.
When my nephew found out his mother & I both had colds, the FIRST thing he said was, _"I gave her my cold because I was *irresponsible*."_
He is an otherwise-intelligent person with a wife & 2 kids....who I will probably never speak to again.


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## Butterfly (Dec 16, 2020)

StarSong said:


> This is horribly shocking.


And remember that Broadway actor?  I think Nick Cordero may have been his name --  he ended up having to have a leg amputated and then died anyway after being in intensive care for months.  And he was a young, fit man.


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## win231 (Dec 16, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> And remember that Broadway actor?  I think Nick Cordero may have been his name --  he ended up having to have a leg amputated and then died anyway after being in intensive care for months.  And he was a young, fit man.


And when he arrived at the hospital, he was tested at least 4 times for Covid.  3 negative & 1 positive.


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## Mike (Dec 17, 2020)

win231 said:


> A couple of weeks ago, my sister & I were planning to celebrate an elderly friend's birthday at our house with 3-4 people.  We had to postpone it because we both got colds that evening & we didn't want to give anything to our friends.
> What's relevant (and interesting) was that we were puzzled about where we got colds from.  During the 3 days prior, neither of us left the house; we just didn't have anywhere to go.  Before those 3 days, we both wore masks outside & while shopping because they're required here.
> 
> So.....since colds are viruses (part of the Coronavirus family, in fact) and we were home for 3 days prior & we wore masks before that, how did we both get colds?  And, if a mask couldn't prevent a cold virus, it couldn't prevent any virus.
> ...


We are told here that a mask won't stop you getting
the virus!

If you have the virus, the mask will stop you passing
it to others.

Mike.


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## win231 (Dec 17, 2020)

Mike said:


> We are told here that a mask won't stop you getting
> the virus!
> 
> If you have the virus, the mask will stop you passing
> ...


I believe the first statement, but not the 2nd.  It's not logical.  If a mask won't stop you from getting the virus, that means the virus gets past the mask from the outside.  That also means the virus gets past to other people from the inside of the mask.  It's not a magic, "One-Way Mask."


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## deesierra (Dec 17, 2020)

chic said:


> Ditto. Makes you wonder doesn't it? This is why I continue to believe masking and isolating are not the answer and lockdowns are ridiculous. It's all not working so we need to think of something else.


Medical science is still researching this virus and how it spreads. Masking and isolating for prevention is all they have to offer right now. Better than nothing? Perhaps. My concern now is the release of the vaccine. If medical science is still trying to figure this virus out, how can any of us be expected to believe in the vaccine?


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## Aunt Marg (Dec 17, 2020)

deesierra said:


> Medical science is still researching this virus and how it spreads. Masking and isolating for prevention is all they have to offer right now. Better than nothing? Perhaps. My concern now is the release of the vaccine. *If medical science is still trying to figure this virus out, how can any of us be expected to believe in the vaccine?*


My sentiment to a T, Deesierra.


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## Sunny (Dec 17, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> Everyone I see is wearing a mask. And yet numbers are rising. Why is that? Because people want to socialize. Because loneliness tops fear of the disease. Because we are willing to risk illness rather than be alone.


This is an example of gross oversimplification from one's own, very limited experience.  You see how many people?  20?  100?  Even 1000?  The figures on mask wearing vs. getting this disease are in the millions.

In my state, every time they impose a lockdown or put limits on the number of people allowed to congregate indoors, every time they make mask wearing mandatory, the disease figures start to turn around and go down. Lots of grumbling and lots of individual financial hardship, to be sure. But the line on the graphs goes down.

Then, they reopen everything too soon, and the figures start to go up again. It's such an obvious one-on-one cause and effect that I can't understand the continued resistance to masks or vaccines.

This plague won't go away until we have consistent cooperation from nearly everybody.


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## StarSong (Dec 17, 2020)

@CarolfromTX's point is well made.  I personally think that since experts already know that people are going to get together (despite advice to the contrary), they should offer guidance on how to do dramatically minimize the risks.

"Just say no" type of campaigns sound great, but six million years of human social behavior evolution cannot just be turned off.  Just as pithy advice flopped in the war on drugs, it's coming up short on the spread of Covid.


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## win231 (Dec 17, 2020)

Sunny said:


> This is an example of gross oversimplification from one's own, very limited experience.  You see how many people?  20?  100?  Even 1000?  The figures on mask wearing vs. getting this disease are in the millions.
> 
> In my state, every time they impose a lockdown or put limits on the number of people allowed to congregate indoors, every time they make mask wearing mandatory, the disease figures start to turn around and go down. Lots of grumbling and lots of individual financial hardship, to be sure. But the line on the graphs goes down.
> 
> ...


Your own experience is just as limited.


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## Sunny (Dec 17, 2020)

What is "my own experience" in this, win?  Carol is talking about the number of people _she _sees wearing masks.  I claim no such research data based on what I have personally seen.  Everything I have referred to in my above post is based on the statistics available to the public, in newspapers, TV reports, and internet media.  They all say the same thing: Lockdowns work. Masks work.  Social distancing works.

Conversely, gathering in large groups without masks very often results in a dramatic upsurge in the disease. All of these facts are based on objective research by professionals, not the limited observations by individuals talking about what they see around them.


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## Mike (Dec 17, 2020)

All large shops here have cleaning equipment for the
handles of the trolley, plus hand sanitisers, contact is
said to pass it on, if you wear a mask, then perhaps
you need gloves as well.

Mike.


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## win231 (Dec 17, 2020)

Sunny said:


> What is "my own experience" in this, win?  Carol is talking about the number of people _she _sees wearing masks.  I claim no such research data based on what I have personally seen.  Everything I have referred to in my above post is based on the statistics available to the public, in newspapers, TV reports, and internet media.  They all say the same thing: Lockdowns work. Masks work.  Social distancing works.
> 
> Conversely, gathering in large groups without masks very often results in a dramatic upsurge in the disease. All of these facts are based on objective research by professionals, not the limited observations by individuals talking about what they see around them.


The "Professionals" are not counting every person & noting whether or not they're wearing masks, either.  They're far too busy providing gloom & doom news & that takes all their time.


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## Lewkat (Dec 17, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> remember that Broadway actor?  I think Nick Cordero may have been his name --  he ended up having to have a leg amputated and then died anyway after being in intensive care for months.  And he was a young, fit man.


He developed blood clots from COVID-19.  One thrombus was so huge, they had to amputate his leg and he shot multiple emboli into his lungs.  His lungs were weakened and he was placed on a ventilator but never rallied.


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## CarolfromTX (Dec 17, 2020)

My daughter, a 3rd grade teacher, just told me both of one of her student’s parents tested positive for Covid, and they sent him to school anyway.  Poor kid is already a mess. Small wonder.


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## CarolfromTX (Dec 17, 2020)

My biggest gripe is with the politicians who say one thing and do another. Latest one is the governor of Rhode Island. Google it.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Dec 17, 2020)

Mike said:


> Sad cases like that are kept quiet, Warrigal, all the high
> profile ones like President Trump, Prime Minister Johnson,
> Prince Charles and Prince William, all came back quickly
> from the virus.
> ...


The high profile ones got the expensive Celebrity Cocktail like Trump and Giuliani.


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## fmdog44 (Dec 17, 2020)

Near death condition in hospital in ICU- removed from ICU- moved to rehab for months - released from hospital to do therapy for up to a year - side effects linger for months - no guarantee of full recovery ever. "Fear of death?" OK but don't bitch to others when you contract the virus and suffer to the point you wish you were dead. Wear a mask whether you like it or not.


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## fmdog44 (Dec 17, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> My biggest gripe is with the politicians who say one thing and do another. Latest one is the governor of Rhode Island governor. Google it.


That's what makes them politicians.


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## Warrigal (Dec 17, 2020)

Even when the virus appears to be under control, it isn't.

My state, NSW went for many days without a single case of community transmission. There were a small number of new cases in hotel quarantine. These people were coming into the country from overseas and were required to do mandatory quarantine for 14 days.

Everything was looking good, and state borders were opening up, people were allowed to congregate in larger groups, provided indoor venues were limited to numbers that would allow for social distancing. Venues, including churches, were taking temperatures at the door and keeping records to help with contact tracing. Masks have never been mandatory but have been strongly encouraged, especially on public transport. Individual enterprises have required masks. I'm going to the podiatrist this morning. Yesterday I had the usual reminder phone call and was also asked whether I was well and reminded to bring a mask with me to wear in the waiting room, which, being quite small, now has only 2 chairs in it.

In spite of all these efforts by the government and the community, we now have a new cluster in the beach suburbs north of Sydney. Yesterday it had gone from 3 cases to 17 and is expected to be more today. It is a new strain and has presumably come in from overseas. It seems to have been contracted by a local man who was the driver for overseas air crews. The air crews are not subject to quarantine but are required to socially isolate between flights. It now seems that the week link in the chain is transportation and measures are being taken to improve cleaning routines and to make mask wearing mandatory for drivers for their protection and to protect their families and other contacts.

The state government is asking people not to enter or leave the northern beaches area for now but has not announced a formal lockdown. They hope to contain infections while they are frantically looking for contacts of the 17 infected people. Co-operation will be quite high because no-one wants to go back to the worst days of the epidemic.

There is no one single magic silver bullet that will protect against COVID but there are a range of measures that will help, could save many lives and allow everyone return to normal sooner. It's not a case of picking and choosing what we personally agree with. All measures that limit the virus passing from one person to another are worthwhile.

Edit - The NSW Premier has announced another 11 positive cases identified overnight. One case has already travelled to Queensland. For the next 3 days people from the Northern Suburbs are being asked to stay at home unless absolutely necessary to leave the house.  The rest of us are asked to be especially careful if we want to have a good Christmas. 

Mask wearing is urged for religious services but in our church, which has only been open again for 3 Sundays after a long shut down, we are all wearing them anyway and we observe all other COVID SAFE protocols with respect to social distancing, hand sanitising and extensive cleaning of the premises. We have also altered our usual rituals - we aren't singing the hymns, don't have physical contact during the sign of peace and morning tea is limited to a cup pf coffee and caterers' pack biscuits.

COVID Safety is about much more than simply wearing a mask.


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## MarciKS (Dec 17, 2020)

StarSong said:


> @CarolfromTX's point is well made.  I personally think that since experts already know that people are going to get together (despite advice to the contrary), they should offer guidance on how to do dramatically minimize the risks.
> 
> "Just say no" type of campaigns sound great, but six million years of human social behavior evolution cannot just be turned off.  Just as pithy advice flopped in the war on drugs, it's coming up short on the spread of Covid.


I don't see what the big deal is. I've managed for 9 mo not to see anyone other than my work place. If I could I wouldn't even go there. I'm not having any troubles with it. It's painful but it won't kill any of us. And it's not forever. I sometimes feel like people are too quick to make excuses.


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## Mike (Dec 18, 2020)

After reading you bit Warrigal about the spike in the beach
areas in the North, brings back the "contact Transmission",
when you walk on the beach we all know that the sand sticks
to the feet and is carried along and dropped off somewhere
else, then another person picks it up and so it goes, perhaps
closing the beach is the answer!

Many years ago when we had the "Foot & Mouth" disease among
cattle, I was working in the South West and one job I had at the
time was to build little pool areas across the entry and exits of the
supermarket car parks, they contained a mixture of sand and
sacks that were in disinfectant, cars and bikes were required to
drive through them to stop the spread of that epidemic, it may
have helped, but worth thinking about.

Mike.


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## Warrigal (Dec 18, 2020)

Fairly unlikely in this case but the beaches have been closed. NSW has probably the gold standard for contact tracing, and the alert has gone out for people who have visited certain venues should have a test and self isolate. These are the places when positive cases have frequented. Most are social/hospitality venues. Of less concern are the retail outlets.



> Visitors to the following venues should self isolate for 14 days even if they receive a negative result
> 
> Coast Palm Beach Cafe, Barrenjoey Rd, Palm Beach, on Sunday, December 13, 10:00am to 11:00am
> Avalon Bowlo (bowling club), 4 Bowling Green Ln, Avalon Beach, on Sunday, December 13, 5:00pm to 7:00pm and Tuesday, December 15, 3:00pm to 5:00pm
> ...


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## Butterfly (Dec 18, 2020)

Sunny said:


> This is an example of gross oversimplification from one's own, very limited experience.  You see how many people?  20?  100?  Even 1000?  The figures on mask wearing vs. getting this disease are in the millions.
> 
> In my state, every time they impose a lockdown or put limits on the number of people allowed to congregate indoors, every time they make mask wearing mandatory, the disease figures start to turn around and go down. Lots of grumbling and lots of individual financial hardship, to be sure. But the line on the graphs goes down.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what has been happening here.  Governor loosened some of the restrictions and some people went wacko and threw caution to the winds and now our hospitals are full and they just had to open an auxiliary one.


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