# Fatherhood



## Bobw235 (Jun 18, 2016)

I became a father at the relatively young age of 25.  It was one and done for me.  The urge for another child was never strong enough for my wife and me to try for another, given that the first one such a challenging baby.  I'm reflecting on fatherhood today.  In many respects I raised a good son.  He's kind hearted, a great father to his kids, works hard, etc.  But I can't help but feel that I failed him somehow.  I didn't instill in him an ability to be empathetic.  He has no sense of financial planning.  He just goes through life with this "it will be okay" attitude.  I sometimes question where I went wrong.  I feel like I did the right things when he was growing up, but he lets us down time and again as a son.  I said to him recently that I didn't think he'd be there for us if we needed him.  It hurt to say it.  By many accounts we have a good relationship, but I yearn for so much more and know it will never be.  I've talked to him, written long letters to let him know how I feel, given him the benefit of the doubt.  Nothing seems to get through.  It saddens me.  I worry about him.

For you guys out there who are fathers, do you ever feel this way?  Do you ever feel like you just never got through to your kids the way you wanted to?


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## Capt Lightning (Jun 19, 2016)

Bob, like you I first became a father at 25 and have 3 children.  My parents were pretty strict - their word was law. Everything we did was seen as reflecting on them and nothing seemed to please them.

I was determined not to be like them and gave my children a lot of freedom while keeping a "safety net" under them.  My son is a bit like yours and like you sometimes I think I should have handled things better, but on balance, he's a great guy.  My daughters are much smarter, successful and more sensible than me.  Unfortunately (?) none of them seem inclined to have children, so the family line might well end here.


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## Guitarist (Jun 19, 2016)

I don't understand how he has let you down, Bob, so I can't speak to that. 

But hey. You say he's a great dad, works hard, and has a positive outlook on life (i.e., "It will be OK."). So, he grew to adulthood, has kids of his own, a job, and a positive attitude. That's four counts more than a lot of people ever get out of life. 

I don't know in what way he was challenging as a baby, but since he was a baby it wasn't his fault.  Some of us find life challenging from the moment we see daylight for the first time. 

I'm sorry you feel he has let you down.  Does he live close enough to you that the two of you can get together on Father's Day and celebrate the miracle of being fathers?


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## Bobw235 (Jun 19, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> I don't understand how he has let you down, Bob, so I can't speak to that.
> 
> But hey. You say he's a great dad, works hard, and has a positive outlook on life (i.e., "It will be OK."). So, he grew to adulthood, has kids of his own, a job, and a positive attitude. That's four counts more than a lot of people ever get out of life.
> 
> ...



When I say he was challenging as a baby, I was recalling how he didn't sleep through the night until he was a year old.  It was draining, but I know some kids are like that.  My wife and I were both working, so that meant daycare and we were always tired.  By the time we were in a position to afford another child, we both talked about it long and hard.  We came close to trying for another, but in the end we made a decision to stop at one child.  We figured that we could provide more for one, and looking way down the road, be in a better place financially in our later years.

I was talking about my post with my wife last night before bed.  I feel like my son rarely says anything from the heart to let us know that he loves us and appreciates us.  We often feel like we're an afterthought to him, an obligation.  It doesn't help with him living in England, so no, there's no way of getting together with him for a heart to heart talk.  I think we all want to feel close to our children and have that love returned.  Too often it feels one sided and maybe that's what hurts the most.


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## Ken N Tx (Jun 19, 2016)

We have had 6 children all have families, good jobs and great homes..We feel that we have done all we could in raising them to become great adults.

That being said, they are now adults and we treat them that way. Three of them hardly communicate with with us other than holidays..That was tough at first, but we have resigned ourselves that we have done our parenting.

They are adults now and we treat them as adults.


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## Bobw235 (Jun 19, 2016)

Ken N Tx said:


> We have had 6 children all have families, good jobs and great homes..We feel that we have done all we could in raising them to become great adults.
> 
> That being said, they are now adults and we treat them that way. Three of them hardly communicate with with us other than holidays..That was tough at first, but we have resigned ourselves that we have done our parenting.
> 
> They are adults now and we treat them as adults.



Ken, you and you wife should be proud that you were able to raise six children into successful adults.  Quite an accomplishment.  Still, I'm sure it hurts sometimes when you don't have the closeness with some that you have with the others.  In my case, because our son is an only child, there is that strong desire to maintain a close bond with him despite the distance. It ebbs and flows I suppose, but I want it to be better.  My wife made a good point last night, that part of who he is today may be the result of who he's married to.  I've written elsewhere about our daughter-in-law and how difficult she is.  I'm sure she takes up a good part of his energy along with two young ones at home (5 and 3 years old).  Still, we wish the bond was stronger.  I'll give an example.  My wife's father died in December.  Our son never once called his mother afterwards to see how she was doing emotionally.  He never expressed a desire to come home for the service.  She was really hurt by his actions and I let him know about it.  I don't think it was anything intentional, but rather that he just doesn't think of it.  That's the part I don't get.  I feel like we always led by example, but that those lessons never got through.


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## Robusta (Jun 19, 2016)

I am a father of three. My son is a product of my first marriage, I did not have much of a hand in raising him as the child custody laws in NY pretty much established me as being nothing more than a visitor and a pocketbook for him

He is in his early 40's and was doing well until he divorced his wife of 20years. He pretty much is in a downward spiral and does not accept help. I have done all I can.

My two daughters are ok, neither wildly successful,but neither are a drain on society. 

It is not my place to say it Bob, but I think that you have no right to place your expectations  on your son. From what you say,he seems to be fine, he is married raising his own children and is productive. So what,he is a poor money manager, as long as he supports his own,why do you care?   So what his wife is difficult, you don't have to wake up with her each day. She must have something to offer  him or he would leave. Also the old saying often rings true, "A son is a son until he takes him a wife, a daughter is a daughter the rest of her life."

I am sorry to be so blunt, Never should you have any expectations of another person. Do you think that your expressing your disappointment, possibly hurts him to the extent that he turns away from you. 
Try just being happy with him,call him and tell him you love him,the words are hard and awkward,but they are magic!


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## Bobw235 (Jun 19, 2016)

Robusta said:


> It is not my place to say it Bob, but I think that you have no right to place your expectations  on your son. From what you say,he seems to be fine, he is married raising his own children and is productive. So what,he is a poor money manager, as long as he supports his own,why do you care?   So what his wife is difficult, you don't have to wake up with her each day. She must have something to offer  him or he would leave. Also the old saying often rings true, "A son is a son until he takes him a wife, a daughter is a daughter the rest of her life."
> 
> I am sorry to be so blunt, Never should you have any expectations of another person. Do you think that your expressing your disappointment, possibly hurts him to the extent that he turns away from you.
> Try just being happy with him,call him and tell him you love him,the words are hard and awkward,but they are magic!



Appreciate your thoughts here, as there is no perfect answer of course.  I do tell him that I love him and respect him and what a good father he is, but it's hard when those sentiments are not returned.  As I think about this more, perhaps what I'm wishing for is some form of validation and appreciation, especially on father's day.  I don't mean to give the impression that this is constantly on my mind, but maybe it's come to the forefront simply because of the holiday and our recent attempts to get him to visit us here in the states with our grandkids.  

As for his lack of money management skills, here's why this is critical.  It's likely that he and his wife will eventually split up.  She handles all the finances in the house.  One day, it's likely that our son will inherit a decent sum of money.  I worry about his inability to manage it, so I haven't given up trying to teach him.  I don't want to see him taken advantage of.


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## Robusta (Jun 19, 2016)

Ok then. Your situation is different than mine.  I will not be passing on a great deal to my children. They will get some,but not enough to make it a life altering event!


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## Guitarist (Jun 19, 2016)

Bobw235 said:


> Ken, you and you wife should be proud that you were able to raise six children into successful adults.  Quite an accomplishment.  Still, I'm sure it hurts sometimes when you don't have the closeness with some that you have with the others.  In my case, because our son is an only child, there is that strong desire to maintain a close bond with him despite the distance. It ebbs and flows I suppose, but I want it to be better.  My wife made a good point last night, that part of who he is today may be the result of who he's married to.  I've written elsewhere about our daughter-in-law and how difficult she is.  I'm sure she takes up a good part of his energy along with two young ones at home (5 and 3 years old).  Still, we wish the bond was stronger.  I'll give an example.  My wife's father died in December.  Our son never once called his mother afterwards to see how she was doing emotionally.  He never expressed a desire to come home for the service.  She was really hurt by his actions and I let him know about it.  I don't think it was anything intentional, but rather that he just doesn't think of it.  That's the part I don't get.  I feel like we always led by example, but that those lessons never got through.



You can teach lessons.  You can't teach personality.


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## Bobw235 (Jun 19, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> You can teach lessons.  You can't teach personality.



How true.  It's just sad because he's our only child and we wish for a better bond with him, but I don't think he gets it.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 19, 2016)

I feel ya Bob. I was just having one of those in my head arguments with oldest daughter today...things were always strained between us, but your Dad was always close to you. All those years he did for you and yet you dumped him just like that...cagna...
But with my sons I'm proud of both of them. But like you say it's not anywhere as close as I wish it could be. I just have some much on my plate with immediate situation. I can't babysit at my house. I don't trust Sophie around any young child. To get to their house requires the parkway. I mean I suppose I could find some back roads. But even just simple things...sending a Mother or Father's Day card complete with printed pictures by snail mail. A written note telling us about Mr. Babykins? Remembering my birthday with even a phone call? Just simple stupid stuff that's more personal than an email.


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## Ken N Tx (Jun 20, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> I feel ya Bob. I was just having one of those in my head arguments with oldest daughter today...things were always strained between us, but your Dad was always close to you. All those years he did for you and yet you dumped him just like that...cagna...
> But with my sons I'm proud of both of them. But like you say it's not anywhere as close as I wish it could be. I just have some much on my plate with immediate situation. I can't babysit at my house. I don't trust Sophie around any young child. To get to their house requires the parkway. I mean I suppose I could find some back roads. But even just simple things...sending a Mother or Father's Day card complete with printed pictures by snail mail. A written note telling us about Mr. Babykins? Remembering my birthday with even a phone call? Just simple stupid stuff that's more personal than an email.



Here is how my Father's Day week-end went:

3  showed up Friday for a group Father's Day Party.


3 posted "Happy Father's Day" on FaceBook Sunday.  The 3 that showed at the party also phoned me on Sunday!!


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## Bobw235 (Jun 20, 2016)

I got a video call from my son and grandkids on which they wished me a Happy Father's Day.  Was glad for the call and the chance to talk to my grandkids.  Wish there had been a card or something written, but that's not going to happen.  Oh well.  He is who he is.


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## senile1 (Jun 21, 2016)

My daughter was born just after my 25th birthday, my son after my 28th. I virtually raised my self from a young age, in the streets of a major city. There was no way I was going to allow my children to live a childhood such as mine, so I made sure there was a connection, and I made double sure my children understood the importance of education. My daughter graduated from a major university , married a wonderful man with a career in banking and has a career in advertising for a major law firm. My son, though he graduated high school, opted out of attending college, at least till 4 years ago.Today he is employed by local government where he lives(still unmarried), attends college at night, and has been(till last year)raising his nineyear old son alone.
 My children have been taught, no matter the good intentions of others', you are the only one you can truly rely on.


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