# Your opinion on the gay lifestyle?



## dseag2 (Jun 7, 2022)

I keep seeing these posts pop up against the gay lifestyle.  I would like to see some of you who are truly against it step up and say so and why.  I have a thick skin, so feel free to share your views.  Nothing hurts me these days.  I am very happy with who I am.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 7, 2022)

I've seen two sides of the gay lifestyle. One I'm fine with, the other not so much. Let's start with the "not so much". As a former public health worker, my constituents and I saw (and were told about) the seedy side of gay life back in the day. Back then, the gay men were going to the clubs and baths in NYC and having indiscriminate sex, even using the Bloomingdale bag trick in public rest rooms. One of the gay men who came to clinic did a very responsible, admirable thing. He asked if there was any way we could conduct mass testing (for syphilis...HIV wasn't around yet) on he and his circle of friends. He found a non denominational church and we set it up for one evening. Several gay men and women came in to be tested. One of our workers was stunned (he literally came back walking like a zombie) when he walked in on two men having oral sex in the bathroom. We were in a church for goodness sake!

As you know, HIV hit the gay community at first. It probably spread to straight people due to many who were "on the down low" and brought it home to their wives or GFs. In the long run, because of their free lifestyle, we lost most of our gay patients to HIV/AIDS when that came along and most were so young. One of them was Michael. Our staff supported him when he entered the gay ball. We went, set at a table with our food and watched with fascination as the contestants paraded in their costumes. Michael stepped on stage and his gown lit up like a Christmas tree! The crowd went crazy and Michael won. Another one was Larry. He was planning to sue his doctor because he said the doctor told him he had HIV but claimed his test was false positive. But Larry did in fact develop AIDS and died. One of our clinic doctors was a proctologist...cool guy. He pointed out that unprotected anal sex is unhealthy *for either sex*. And for women..especially if her partner goes from that area to the other without washing or putting on clean protection.

On the other side of the coin, there are gay people, as you know Dseag2, who are totally committed to one partner.  Just as there are many straight people who are *not* loyal to their partners, something we also found out on a daily basis due to the kind of work we did. So no stereotyping is meant by this reply. In fact, it seems to me that gay couples who are committed stay together longer than many straight couples. I do have a problem with gay men who "overdo it" by trying to act and sound like women. It comes across as phony to me.  Even my gay friends have problems with that. I also have a problem with *anyone* who is phony whether they are pretending to be your friend or that they have more education or money than they really do. I have a couple of good friends who are gay. A couple who are "Bi" and I have a friend who is trans (male to female). I love and highly respect them because they keep it real and are not phonies. They also don't try to push their lifestyles on anyone. (Eg...no approaching obviously straight people with propositions).


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## SeniorBen (Jun 7, 2022)

It's my understanding that gay people like show tunes and Bruce Springsteen. They are also very neat. Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## Lavinia (Jun 7, 2022)

What exactly do you mean by 'The Gay Lifestyle'? As One Eyed Diva said, gay people vary just as much as straight people do. I am friendly with a gay couple who behave as any other couple...they are faithful to each other, have friends round for dinner parties, etc. Then there are those who think that being 'gay' is all about having sex with other men. There are areas of the town which are out of bounds to most people because gay men gather there  in the evenings, purely to meet up for sex.
I'm sure there are many decent homosexuals who are horrified at the image that gay men have, because of the behaviour of some of their contemporaries. I've known many gay people and, most are accepted in their communities. The problem arises when they make a big issue about it as though it is the only thing about them that matters.


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## Blessed (Jun 8, 2022)

I don't see it as a lifestyle.  I don't see it as a choice.  I see it as being the person you are. Now, you can judge my lifestyle.  I am not rich, grew up lower middle class, worked hard and built my life.  I don't think anyone should be subject to inappropriate slurs of any kind of a internet forum.


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## dseag2 (Jun 8, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I've seen two sides of the gay lifestyle. One I'm fine with, the other not so much. Let's start with the "not so much". As a former public health worker, my constituents and I saw (and were told about) the seedy side of gay life back in the day. Back then, the gay men were going to the clubs and baths in NYC and having indiscriminate sex, even using the Bloomingdale bag trick in public rest rooms. One of the gay men who came to clinic did a very responsible, admirable thing. He asked if there was any way we could conduct mass testing (for syphilis...HIV wasn't around yet) on he and his circle of friends. He found a non denominational church and we set it up for one evening. Several gay men and women came in to be tested. One of our workers was stunned (he literally came back walking like a zombie) when he walked in on two men having oral sex in the bathroom. We were in a church for goodness sake!
> 
> As you know, HIV hit the gay community at first. It probably spread to straight people due to many who were on the "down low". In the long run, because of their free lifestyle, we lost most of our gay patients to HIV/AIDS when that came along and most were so young. One of them was Michael. Our staff supported him when he entered the gay ball. We went, set at a table with our food and watched with fascination as the contestants paraded in their costumes. Michael stepped on stage and his gown lit up like a Christmas tree! The crowd went crazy and Michael won. Another one was Larry. He was planning to sue his doctor because he said the doctor told him he had HIV but claimed his test was false positive. But Larry did in fact develop AIDS and died. One of our clinic doctors was a proctologist...cool guy. He pointed out that unprotected anal sex is unhealthy *for either sex*. And for women..especially if her partner goes from that area to the other without washing or putting on clean protection.
> 
> On the other side of the coin, there are gay people, as you know Dseag2, who are totally committed to one partner.  Just as there are many straight people who are *not* loyal to their partners, something we also found out on a daily basis due to the kind of work we did. So no stereotyping is meant by this reply. In fact, it seems to me that gay couples who are committed stay together longer than many straight couples. I do have a problem with gay men who "overdo it" by trying to act and sound like women. It comes across as phony to me.  Even my gay friends have problems with that. I also have a problem with *anyone* who is phony whether they are pretending to be your friend or that they have more education or money than they really do. I have a couple of good friends who are gay. A couple who are "Bi" and I have a friend who is trans (male to female). I love and highly respect them because they keep it real and are not phonies. They also don't try to push their lifestyles on anyone. (Eg...no approaching obviously straight people with propositions).


I couldn't agree more with your postl 

When I was coming out as gay, my first priority was to find a soul mate.  I kissed a lot of "frogs" along the way until I found my life partner of 30 yearsl  Thank your for responding, and I completely agree with you re: gay men who overdo it.  I had friends back in the 80s who referred to everyone as "girl" and embarrassed me when I was just trying to fit in.


Lavinia said:


> What exactly do you mean by 'The Gay Lifestyle'? As One Eyed Diva said, gay people vary just as much as straight people do. I am friendly with a gay couple who behave as any other couple...they are faithful to each other, have friends round for dinner parties, etc. Then there are those who think that being 'gay' is all about having sex with other men. There are areas of the town which are out of bounds to most people because gay men gather there  in the evenings, purely to meet up for sex.
> I'm sure there are many decent homosexuals who are horrified at the image that gay men have, because of the behaviour of some of their contemporaries. I've known many gay people and, most are accepted in their communities. The problem arises when they make a big issue about it as though it is the only thing about them that matters.Maybe we can finally agree on something


@Lavinia I am always willing to consider both sides..  Like your friends, my partner and I have been  faithful to one another for over 30 years. Please set us aside from those who are out every night looking for sex.  We were never like that even when we were younger, so we can't all be painted with the same brush any more than straight people can.

Regardless of what i may seem, I am not a person who wishes to impose his values one everyone else.  I simply seek respect.  I'm sure we can find common ground.  I know you are a very intelligent person, so although we have had our challenges,  please consider this my  "olive branch" to you so we can start from Square One.


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## Warrigal (Jun 8, 2022)

My youngest grandson is gay and he has found happiness with a very nice young man.
I am happy that he is happy. IMO, happiness is a great lifestyle.


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## WheatenLover (Jun 8, 2022)

I have a gay son. He has been in a relationship for four years, and it is one the couple intend to make permanent. They are happy, and I am thrilled about that.

I know several gay couples who are in long-term marriages, still happy with their choices.


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## Mike (Jun 8, 2022)

I have no problem with Gay people, it is their choice, or maybe not,
to be the way they are, as long as they don't try anything with those
are not Gay.

The strange thing that I have noticed here at least, among British Gays,
they all, mainly, want to blend in and be accepted as part of the non-gay
community, I can understand that they want to be one big happy family
together.

Then, they want a Parade, a Gala day, or some big function for whatever
reason and suddenly they are L.G.B.T. or rainbow, or any other name that
I don't remember and if a non-gay wants to join in, then they are required
to dress as gay people, to blend in, so in this example, the Gay people here
want the others to blend in to their idea of lifestyle.

Strange, I think, to advocate one thing, but then force the opposite at times.

Mike.


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## Trish (Jun 8, 2022)

By gay lifestyle, do you mean being attracted to people of the same sex?  If so, I hope they find happiness like everyone else and that life is no longer as difficult for them as it was for my school friend (Denis) back in the early 1970's, when he left because he felt he would never belong in this world.  

I guess by "lifestyle" you might mean promiscuity?  If so, I have always thought that was a bit of a myth as my gay friends seemed no different to my straight friends in that some were promiscuous and some were not.  

@dseag2 I hope you and your partner have many more years to love and enjoy together x


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## Trish (Jun 8, 2022)

Mike said:


> I have no problem with Gay people, it is their choice, or maybe not,
> to be the way they are, as long as they don't try anything with those
> are not Gay.
> 
> ...


I am sorry to hear that Mike, it's sad if people are made to feel excluded.


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## Been There (Jun 8, 2022)

I never understood why men wanted to have sex with other men. I know some men will get excited watching two women having sex, but even the idea of two men having sex repulses me. As for the person themselves, I am OK with being around them, so long as they don't come onto me or even make comments that may reflect wanting to have more than just a friendly relationship. And please, don't tell me about how much you and John love each other. Keep your private life just that, private.


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## Tish (Jun 8, 2022)

I have no problem with it what's so ever.
Most of the animal world is Bi. we are not that far away from animals.

To each their own, whatever blows their Kilts up.


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## rgp (Jun 8, 2022)

Well, you said be honest, you have thick skin, etc. So....One gripe with them is the name itself. [Gay] meaning queer. I mean if they are so proud .... thats great, be proud of what you are .... queer .... quit hiding behind a word that used to mean 'happy'

And why do they need all this special attention ? Pride month, parades  , their own flag etc. Just be who you are, love who you choose , screw who you choose. Quit making such a spectical of yourselves.

I used to work with a guy that was queer [Gary] He was a great guy, and a damn good employee. He worked in dispatch, and was a record keeping fanatic <grin> made our jobs, mechanics/crew chiefs/ machinist / fabricators etc. allot easier when we needed something.

Another queer guy was hired up in the office. He was such a 'flamer' ..... he even pissed Gary off. Gary told him that he was making his [Gary's] life at work much harder The boss decided to transfer the other guy out, Gary supported the boss.

No I do not agree with your lifestyle, but you are of course entitled to it. As such I wish you well each and every day.


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## Pepper (Jun 8, 2022)

I was in Zurich and heard about Stonewall on BBC radio and I was so proud of the gay guys standing up and fighting back.  Since it occurred around the time of my birthday I felt it was a gift.  I was wishing I were home to join in the celebrations that followed.  I understand men loving men as I loved men too!  Crazy, I know.


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## horseless carriage (Jun 8, 2022)

The Nazi regime carried out a campaign against male homosexuality between 1933 and 1945. This campaign persecuted men who had ****** relations with other men. It is unclear how many of these men publicly or privately identified as gay or were part of gay communities and networks that had been established in Germany before the Nazi rise to power. 

Beginning in 1933, the Nazi regime harassed and dismantled these communities. They also arrested large numbers of gay men under Paragraph 175. Paragraph 175 was the statute of the German criminal code that banned ****** relations between men. During the Nazi period, the police arrested about 100,000 men for allegedly violating this statute. Approximately fifty percent of these men were convicted. In some cases, this led to their imprisonment in concentration camps.

It is important to note that not all of the men arrested and convicted under Paragraph 175 identified as gay. However, any man who had ****** relations with another man faced potential arrest in Nazi Germany, regardless of how he understood his own sexuality. Identifying as a gay man was never explicitly criminalized in Germany. However, the Nazi campaign against homosexuality and the regime’s zealous enforcement of Paragraph 175 made life in Nazi Germany dangerous for gay men. 

Among the groups the Nazi regime and its Axis partners singled out for persecution on so-called racial grounds were the Roma (Gypsies). Drawing support from many non-Nazi Germans who harboured social prejudice towards Roma, the Nazis judged Roma to be "racially inferior." The fate of Roma in some ways paralleled that of the Jews. Under the Nazi regime, German authorities subjected Roma to arbitrary internment, forced labor, and mass murder. German authorities murdered tens of thousands of Roma in the German-occupied territories of the Soviet Union and Serbia and thousands more in their killing centres.

On July 14, 1933, the Nazi government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law, one of the first steps taken by the Nazis toward their goal of creating an Aryan “master race,” called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, such as mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism. With the law’s passage the Third Reich also stepped up its propaganda against people with disabilities, regularly labeling them “life unworthy of life” or “useless eaters” and highlighting their burden upon society. Just a few years later, the persecution of people with disabilities escalated even further. In the autumn of 1939, Adolf Hitler secretly authorized a medically administered program of “mercy death” code-named “Operation T4,” in reference to the address of the program’s Berlin headquarters at Tiergartenstrasse 4. Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas. (This methodology served as the precursor to the streamlined extermination methods of the “Final Solution.”) Although Hitler formally ordered a halt to the program in late August 1941, the killings secretly continued until the war’s end, resulting in the murder of an estimated 275,000 people with disabilities.

The Holocaust, the murder of some six million Jews is well known, but the Nazis also murdered three and a half million Russian POW's, they committed the Genocide of Poland and murdered just about anyone they didn't like the look of. You see what happens when prejudice is allowed to flourish. As for the thread title, why should I have an opinion? I'm much too busy earning a crust, living my life and keeping a roof over my head to have an opinion about how others live their lives.


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## oldaunt (Jun 8, 2022)

I have not one problem with people being gay but I am REALLY tired of having it shoved in my face by media and such. By the same token, I do not want to know about straight people and their sex life either. Can't watch a movie or read a book any more without some kind of sex in your face. No, i don't have a problem ith MINE, I just don't want to be a part of YOURS.


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## JonSR77 (Jun 8, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I keep seeing these posts pop up against the gay lifestyle.  I would like to see some of you who are truly against it step up and say so and why.  I have a thick skin, so feel free to share your views.  Nothing hurts me these days.  I am very happy with who I am.



Everyone should be free to love whoever they want. Period.

Went to the eye doctor Monday. In the hallway of the building, I passed by a nice man. I guess he was gay. I am straight and my radar isn't always good. But anyway, when people pass me by, I tend to say hello. There are reasons for that, beyond courtesy and friendship. 

I am big guy, 6' 200 lbs. I am a hippie, but I look like a biker. So, I will say hello to older folks and such, so that they are more comfortable around me and not scared. 

And this man passing by me was kind of small...so, you know, I said hello to ease tensions.

And he said hello back and I guess he sounded like he might be gay.

Anyway, all a very long way of saying that, in my experience, gay men are about, oh maybe 10 times nicer than straight men. I also seem to get along very well with gay women.

Bottom line for me, is that the gay community has just been far, far nicer people to interact with.

As far as I am concerned...more power to them. For me, talking with gay folks is a break from interacting with harsh and annoying people.

I used to sell sporting goods at Sears...yet another of my endless jobs. When I would get a customer from the military, I would have a sigh of relief. Because I knew I would be interacting with someone with respect and courtesy. For me, it is like that with gay people. I have a sigh of relief, because I know I am going to be interacting with someone who is nicer.

picture of me (with goofy face) and my wife Laurie:


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## JonSR77 (Jun 8, 2022)

I posted this in the history thread, but thought I might share this here, as a reminder...

Gay Military Heroes. And that is just one example of the extraordinary contributions of the gay community to society.

You can go through all the professions and all the endeavors and really start to realize the amazing contribution of the gay community to society.

And that is in every sphere - inventors, scientists, musicians, actors, teachers, writers, and right down the line. Gay folks are just folks, like the rest of us.  


*Gay Military Heroes...*


Old ideas about gay folks are just old ideas. They have no validity at all. Just like any racial prejudice is absurd. We are all people, period.

No, I'm not gay. I'm straight.
Very nice gay man on these boards. Showed a lot of kindness to this NJ loser.
This post is to honor him and all gay folks. We're all just people out here....
+

*Perhaps the greatest warrior in world history....Alexander the Great. He was gay.*

+

One of the greatest warriors of the 20th Century.... T. E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) - he was gay.

+

Sacred Band of Thebes...some of the greatest warriors of the ancient world. They were gay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes

+

The four people who are probably most responsible for winning WWII --- Churchill, Roosevelt, Eisenhower and math genius Alan Turing, who broke the Nazi engima code. Turing was gay.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18419691

+

Twelve LGBTQ War Heroes and their stories

https://www.museumfacts.co.uk/12-lgbtq-war-heroes-and-their-stories/

+

I am 61, missed Vietnam by about 5 years. No military service.
----But, I did consult to help put on a concert for Vets. That was a project of one of Mariah Carey's back-up singers. He was gay.
I have PTSD. Not military related.
----Protected two different vets in the throes of PTSD episodes..kept them safe and out of jail, risked my safety to do it.
----Made donations to veterans hospital.

Other things for vets also...


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## JonSR77 (Jun 8, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I've seen two sides of the gay lifestyle. One I'm fine with, the other not so much. Let's start with the "not so much". As a former public health worker, my constituents and I saw (and were told about) the seedy side of gay life back in the day. Back then, the gay men were going to the clubs and baths in NYC and having indiscriminate sex, even using the Bloomingdale bag trick in public rest rooms. One of the gay men who came to clinic did a very responsible, admirable thing. He asked if there was any way we could conduct mass testing (for syphilis...HIV wasn't around yet) on he and his circle of friends. He found a non denominational church and we set it up for one evening. Several gay men and women came in to be tested. One of our workers was stunned (he literally came back walking like a zombie) when he walked in on two men having oral sex in the bathroom. We were in a church for goodness sake!
> 
> As you know, HIV hit the gay community at first. It probably spread to straight people due to many who were "on the down low" and brought it home to their wives or GFs. In the long run, because of their free lifestyle, we lost most of our gay patients to HIV/AIDS when that came along and most were so young. One of them was Michael. Our staff supported him when he entered the gay ball. We went, set at a table with our food and watched with fascination as the contestants paraded in their costumes. Michael stepped on stage and his gown lit up like a Christmas tree! The crowd went crazy and Michael won. Another one was Larry. He was planning to sue his doctor because he said the doctor told him he had HIV but claimed his test was false positive. But Larry did in fact develop AIDS and died. One of our clinic doctors was a proctologist...cool guy. He pointed out that unprotected anal sex is unhealthy *for either sex*. And for women..especially if her partner goes from that area to the other without washing or putting on clean protection.
> 
> On the other side of the coin, there are gay people, as you know Dseag2, who are totally committed to one partner.  Just as there are many straight people who are *not* loyal to their partners, something we also found out on a daily basis due to the kind of work we did. So no stereotyping is meant by this reply. In fact, it seems to me that gay couples who are committed stay together longer than many straight couples. I do have a problem with gay men who "overdo it" by trying to act and sound like women. It comes across as phony to me.  Even my gay friends have problems with that. I also have a problem with *anyone* who is phony whether they are pretending to be your friend or that they have more education or money than they really do. I have a couple of good friends who are gay. A couple who are "Bi" and I have a friend who is trans (male to female). I love and highly respect them because they keep it real and are not phonies. They also don't try to push their lifestyles on anyone. (Eg...no approaching obviously straight people with propositions).



I am not a fan of a wild hedonistic lifestyle, whether that is gay or straight. People having endless sex with strangers, taking drugs and all that. You know, I think it is a festival of superficial behavior that leads to endless problems. Instead of people forming loving relationships, they engage in this wild and superficial life...instead of doing the harder work of finding truly loving partners and a deeper emotional life. 

I have lost 5 people to ODs from heroin. And they were all straight. So, my problem is not with gay folks, it is with the dangers of wild life and drug use. But for the gay folks who were engaged in that kind of behavior, at least back in the 70s, before AIDS...no, I was not a fan of that, for the reasons above.


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## JonSR77 (Jun 8, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I've seen two sides of the gay lifestyle. One I'm fine with, the other not so much. Let's start with the "not so much". As a former public health worker, my constituents and I saw (and were told about) the seedy side of gay life back in the day. Back then, the gay men were going to the clubs and baths in NYC and having indiscriminate sex, even using the Bloomingdale bag trick in public rest rooms. One of the gay men who came to clinic did a very responsible, admirable thing. He asked if there was any way we could conduct mass testing (for syphilis...HIV wasn't around yet) on he and his circle of friends. He found a non denominational church and we set it up for one evening. Several gay men and women came in to be tested. One of our workers was stunned (he literally came back walking like a zombie) when he walked in on two men having oral sex in the bathroom. We were in a church for goodness sake!
> 
> As you know, HIV hit the gay community at first. It probably spread to straight people due to many who were "on the down low" and brought it home to their wives or GFs. In the long run, because of their free lifestyle, we lost most of our gay patients to HIV/AIDS when that came along and most were so young. One of them was Michael. Our staff supported him when he entered the gay ball. We went, set at a table with our food and watched with fascination as the contestants paraded in their costumes. Michael stepped on stage and his gown lit up like a Christmas tree! The crowd went crazy and Michael won. Another one was Larry. He was planning to sue his doctor because he said the doctor told him he had HIV but claimed his test was false positive. But Larry did in fact develop AIDS and died. One of our clinic doctors was a proctologist...cool guy. He pointed out that unprotected anal sex is unhealthy *for either sex*. And for women..especially if her partner goes from that area to the other without washing or putting on clean protection.
> 
> On the other side of the coin, there are gay people, as you know Dseag2, who are totally committed to one partner.  Just as there are many straight people who are *not* loyal to their partners, something we also found out on a daily basis due to the kind of work we did. So no stereotyping is meant by this reply. In fact, it seems to me that gay couples who are committed stay together longer than many straight couples. I do have a problem with gay men who "overdo it" by trying to act and sound like women. It comes across as phony to me.  Even my gay friends have problems with that. I also have a problem with *anyone* who is phony whether they are pretending to be your friend or that they have more education or money than they really do. I have a couple of good friends who are gay. A couple who are "Bi" and I have a friend who is trans (male to female). I love and highly respect them because they keep it real and are not phonies. They also don't try to push their lifestyles on anyone. (Eg...no approaching obviously straight people with propositions).



I do think that you really might be repeating some myths about gay folks...that really are not who they are.

*You wrote:

"I do have a problem with gay men who "overdo it" by trying to act and sound like women. It comes across as phony to me."*

I am not sure that is a "thing." Or at least, any more than the wide range of affectations that straight people put on, when they are trying to "look cool" or "sound attractive."

*You wrote:

"They also don't try to push their lifestyles on anyone. (Eg...no approaching obviously straight people with propositions)."*


I also don't think that is a "thing." That sounds more like some negative spin that politicians created to demonize the gay community.

In the 70s, I used to go to Greenwich Village a lot, because I was a jazz fan. As a young guy, in my late teens, I was, in fact a pretty decent looking guy. And that is not, you know, just bragging. My aunt had been a model. A bunch of women in my family were involved in beauty pageants. Anyway, I absolutely did get a lot of looks from gay men, as I walked to the jazz clubs.

Not once did anyone approach me. Not once. No one was rude or inappropriate with me, ever.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 8, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I keep seeing these posts pop up against the gay lifestyle.  I would like to see some of you who are truly against it step up and say so and why.  I have a thick skin, so feel free to share your views.  Nothing hurts me these days.  I am very happy with who I am.


The word "lifestyle" threw me, as it did others.  I'm assuming that you simply meant homosexuality, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I have always been a loner, so I haven't known many people at all.

I'm familiar with a female ex-in-law and her female partner.  I was the only one not "shocked and appalled" in the family when this relationship became apparent. 

I've only been in brief contact with one other homosexual couple - two divorced ladies, each with their own children.  The combined family seemed just like any other.

I am more familiar with one young person who transitioned and that person seemed to be much happier in their "new skin."

To my knowledge, I've only known one homosexual man.  He was my photography instructor and I really, really wanted him to ask me out.  I guess my flirting finally got to him and he told me that I just wasn't his type!

So, I'm grateful to Deseag2 for expanding my knowledge base.

As to my opinions:

I frown at ****** promiscuity because it causes so much pain, both physical and emotional.

I'm not fond of overly flamboyant behavior in anyone - people who constantly behave as if they are on stage, begging the world to "Look at me!"

I have never concerned myself with who someone loves, nor who someone is intimate with, as long as that relationship was healthy and happy.

I try to be my honest self and hope all others do the same.


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## JonSR77 (Jun 8, 2022)

Mike said:


> I have no problem with Gay people, it is their choice, or maybe not,
> to be the way they are, as long as they don't try anything with those
> are not Gay.




I don't really think that is a thing, Mike. I think that is just some spin that people created to demonize gay folks.


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## JonSR77 (Jun 8, 2022)

Been There said:


> I never understood why men wanted to have sex with other men. I know some men will get excited watching two women having sex, but even the idea of two men having sex repulses me. As for the person themselves, I am OK with being around them, so long as they don't come onto me or even make comments that may reflect wanting to have more than just a friendly relationship. And please, don't tell me about how much you and John love each other. Keep your private life just that, private.



*You wrote:

Keep your private life just that, private.*


Well, you know, that is kind of nasty and aggressively so. Would you say the same thing if some gal on here talked about a romantic date with her husband??? So, don't single out people.

Also, you might want to take a deeper dive into why other people's lives make you that angry. Because you are not angry at them, you are angry at something else. Maybe some kind of abuse you suffered as a kid. That is really what is making you angry...and your brain is just processing it in a way you turn it into anger at people you don't even know. 

I would lay strong odds that you were the victim of some kind of abuse as a kid, or the victim of some kind of trauma. And that abuse or trauma might have absolutely nothing to do with gay people, sexuality, anything. You probably just have some kind of psychological sore spot inside you. And if you address that in counseling, you are likely to be happier in your life.

I know this because in 1982, I was kidnapped and held for a week, by some lunatics. I know that trauma can express itself in all kinds of ways. Sometimes, after getting triggered, I will just be angry at everyone and everything. But it doesn't mean it is them, it is crossed wires in the brain.

I am straight. I had gay woman friend, who was a model and drop dead gorgeous. We went to a movie and secretly I was hoping that, well, she might not be as gay as she thought she was.

This gorgeous blond came on the screen and at the exact same time, we both muttered "D*mn..."

You just can't make that up.

Gay folks are just romantically and physically attracted to the same sex.

You say it is repulsive?

Hey, c'mon. I am a guy. I know what guys think about women. I know all the sick, disgusting thoughts about women that are constantly going through our heads.

You definitely can't say that straight sex is any less disgusting than gay sex would be.

I mean, I understand what you are saying.

I have no interest in holding and kissing some NFL linebacker. It is the opposite of what interests me. 

So, it's an attraction thing, not a gay thing.

I am also not attracted to gals who are overly aggressive or whatever. One of my gal friends in high school was the head cheerleader. We were pals. But I was not attracted to her. Just too tough for me. I had another gal friend who was a model. She was bi. Far too masculine for me.

My buddies used to tease me why I didn't sleep with her. Uh, well, sure she has a great body, but I was not attracted to the demeanor behind it.


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## jujube (Jun 8, 2022)

So far, I've never had a gay person try to push their "lifestyle" on me.  I wish I could say the same about some members of religious organizations or political parties, most or all of whom I assume are "straight".

I have gay friends, I have gay relatives.  Love 'em all.  

I don't care if you find love with the opposite sex, the same sex, a tree or your '66 Corvette......just be kind and faithful to your chosen partner.


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## JonSR77 (Jun 8, 2022)

jujube said:


> So far, I've never had a gay person try to push their "lifestyle" on me.  I wish I could say the same about some members of religious organizations or political parties, most or all of whom I assume are "straight".
> 
> I have gay friends, I have gay relatives.  Love 'em all.
> 
> I don't care if you find love with the opposite sex, the same sex, a tree or your '66 Corvette......just be kind and faithful to your chosen partner.


love the sentiment.

Just want to say, I love muscle cars and I would be faithful to a restored '66 Corvette!!!!!!!


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## Jackie23 (Jun 8, 2022)

I do not think being gay is 'a choice' and I have much admiration for gay people that daily face criticism, bigotry and harassment and come out of it sane.  The gay people I've known have been intelligent and caring people...what the world needs more of.


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## Bella (Jun 8, 2022)

I don't have an issue with people's sexuality or their lifestyle. However, I don't like it when anyone tries to force me into something I have no interest in pursuing. I've had to make that clear to a few people in my lifetime.

My best friend in high school was gay. We had many interests in common in and outside of school and spent a lot of time together. When we were a bit older, we went to the theater together, to concerts, out to dinner, and to dance clubs. We had a blast together. He treated me better than any boyfriend I had until I met my husband. I could always count on him to be there for me no matter what. We loved each other then, and we still do fifty years later. He dated but was never a man whore. After his first husband died, he remarried and has been with his second husband for over twenty years.

I remember when we were kids, sitting around one afternoon talking, and I asked him, "When did you know you were gay?" He said, "I was four. I didn't know I was gay or what gay was, but I knew I was different." He was openly gay in high school. Life wasn't and isn't easy for gay kids, especially when they come out so early. Because he was "different", he told me he was a very lonely child. He always lived an authentic life, much to his credit. I admire him.

I also have other gay friends, both male and female, that I've known for many years. Some ran around back in the day and bumped anything that would bump them back. But I also had straight friends who behaved in the same manner. This was before "free love" could kill you. There was no AIDS at that time. Yes, you could get sexually transmitted diseases from being promiscuous, but there are cures for chlamydia, gonorrhea, and syphilis, and although it's not curable, herpes can be managed. Promiscuous lifestyle choices are most certainly not limited to gay individuals, and anyone who thinks it is needs to snap out of it! There are some gay people who might dress and act in an embarrassing way, but it doesn't represent what the majority of gay people truly are like. There are plenty of straight people who dress outrageously and also act that way.

@rgp  What the word QUEER actually means is someone or something that is strange, out of whack, off center, and abnormal. I don’t use that derogatory word, any more than I would ever use the word FAG to define someone who is homosexual.

There are those who may not like gay people, but they are deserving of respect simply by virtue of the fact that they are human beings trying to live their lives like anyone else. That includes calling them gay if that's what they prefer to be called. They've suffered a long history of discrimination and abuse for no reason except baseless human bigotry. Just because you're straight doesn't mean that you're a better person, it just means that you're different from them. I don't think that people should be judged by their ****** orientation but by the content of their character and how they treat others. That's what's most important.

And don't tell me that God doesn't approve. All God's children, regardless of their ****** orientation, are loved and accepted by him. The oh so righteous individuals who stand in moral judgement of others who are different need to give that some thought and follow his example. Amen to that!

Bella


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## Bella (Jun 8, 2022)

@horseless carriage ​Homosexuality and the Nazi Party​The militant homosexual core of the National Socialist party - by: Scott Lively​https://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=PinkSwastika





Bella


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## oldaunt (Jun 8, 2022)

You DO know, you doubters, that there are gay animals too. If your god had a problem with gays, why would he have created so many? I used to keep chickens and a few ducks, and one rooster and drake kept constant company, including mounting each other.


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## RadishRose (Jun 8, 2022)

Live and let live.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 8, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> I do think that you really might be repeating some myths about gay folks...that really are not who they are.
> 
> *You wrote:
> 
> ...


You quoted my:* "I do have a problem with gay men who "overdo it" by trying to act and sound like women. It comes across as phony to me."*
You seem to be forgetting that I was in the midst of plenty of gay people during the course of my career and witnessed that behavior with *many *of them... though not all. I also witnessed it when my husband and I were on vacation about 4 years ago and saw some of the gay men coming in and out of a gay disco that was happening in the casino hotel (after we left a show in the casino theater). Also, there have been a lot of gay men in my city who exhibited that kind of behavior. I didn't just form that opinion out of the blue Jon!

And you seemed to have missed this sentence: "*So no stereotyping is meant by this reply."  *I simply gave some anecdotes about what I've witnessed personally in my lifetime. And like you I think the hedonistic lifestyle is asking for trouble whether it's straight or gay people.

*"They also don't try to push their lifestyles on anyone. (Eg...no approaching obviously straight people with propositions)." *And you said:* "*I also don't think that is a "thing." That sounds more like some negative spin that politicians created to demonize the gay community."
You don't think that's a thing? Well, the same year COVID hit (2020) my Honorary Daughter, mother of two of my grandchildren, goes to House Music parties, likes to dance, is friends with a gay couple and their friends are sometimes at these events. They told her that a couple of their friends wanted to "get with her".  And those friends know damn well she's not interested in women.  My husband who was an exceptionally handsome man had been propositioned a couple of times too. So just because you haven't encountered these things doesn't mean that it's not a "thing". And what the hell do politicians have to do with it?!  I try to stay away from politics as much a possible because the political arena gets on my nerves. Anyway...What do you think is happening when gay men try to, what we call "groom" young boys?  And before you take *that* question out of context...yes straight men also "groom" young girls before and while the molestation is happening. These things happen more than we care to think. Check the stats.


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## Wren (Jun 8, 2022)

_‘I keep seeing these posts pop up against the gay lifestyle.’..._

I have to say, I’ve not seen any posts against the gay lifestyle popping up, and  personally, have far more important issues on my mind, wouldn’t give it a seconds thought, as I don’t expect any body gives a thought to my heterosexual lifestyle, why would I ?

I have many gay friends, they just get on with their lives, part of our  community


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## Lawrence (Jun 8, 2022)

I have had many gay friends although not close up and personal. I have worked with many gays and have enjoyed thier sense of humor. Being gay does not really interest me but sometimes I think that they are funny. I worked at a company that encouraged gay people to apply to work there because we followed the rules of equal opertunity and equial diversity. It was a nice place to work at.


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## oldaunt (Jun 8, 2022)

Odd coincidence; my baby brother is gay. My husband's baby brother was gay. My uncle, who is also a baby brother, is gay. Makes me go hmmm......


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## feywon (Jun 8, 2022)

i was so glad to see that most of the people responding were not vehemently against the 'gay lifestyle'. i was heterosexual most of my life but have been celibate since end of my third marriage (closing in on a quarter century ago), and realized in last few years that without the hormonal flood of my reproductive years i am essentially asexual.  Whereas during those years i was quite (surprise, i'm having trouble finding what i feel is ideal word to describe it) controlled ? ruled ? by the demands of my hormones.

My basic stance about people in general is this: a soul is a soul is a soul.  Packaging and lifestyle choices are only relevant to my opinion of anyone on the basis of how treat others, not just me but people in general.  If their choices are not causing direct harm.  If relatives or friends are 'harmed' because their own biases and fears cause emotional turmoil that is on the person judging them not on the individual who is being true to themselves, to their soul.


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## ElCastor (Jun 8, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I keep seeing these posts pop up against the gay lifestyle.  I would like to see some of you who are truly against it step up and say so and why.  I have a thick skin, so feel free to share your views.  Nothing hurts me these days.  I am very happy with who I am.


Since you asked -- I spent my working life in San Francisco, the Gay capitol of the universe, and do have an opinion on this. First, let me say that there are of course two kinds of gays, men and women. My remarks are relative to gay men. In my experience Gay women demonstrate their ****** preference in a far less flamboyant and discrete manner.

* Disease. Venereal disease is intense in the Gay male community. For instance ...  "Most cases of syphilis in the United States are among gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM). Syphilis also has increased nearly every year among MSM, for about two decades"
https://www.cdc.gov/std/syphilis/stdfact-msm-syphilis.htm

* Gay male attraction to young boys. Gay men have wreaked a heavy toll on the Boy Scouts and in positions of trust in religious organizations. I worked with two gay men who met in a seminary, and at one time I lived not far from an office of a Gay male organization which, among other things, is dedicated to modifying age of consent laws.

* Gay male flamboyance and irritating portrayal of women. I don't want to name any events or organizations, but it can get pretty grotesque.


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## oldaunt (Jun 8, 2022)

And straight males go after young girls. Where is that different? There are bad people in all walks of life. And I have personally seen straight women acting like the most irritating males I have ever met.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 8, 2022)

I don't think there's a "Gay Lifestyle". I believe human sexuality is on a continuum from homo- to hetero-, and with. most falling into some ratio of both. Apart from their ****** orientation, the needs, and wants of all humans are the same. I think what you refer to as a "Gay Lifestyle" is religious/social persecution, which resulted in being forced into "underground' activities. There is nothing in the so called " gay life style" that isn't mirrored in the "straight" lifestyle. Both can be just as seedy or  as wholesome as the other. Plus "Gay Lifestyle" assumes that all "gays" do the same, act the same, and feel the same.  They don't.  Is there really a lockstep heterosexual lifestyle to which every heterosexual adheres to?


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## JaniceM (Jun 8, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I keep seeing these posts pop up against the gay lifestyle.  I would like to see some of you who are truly against it step up and say so and why.  I have a thick skin, so feel free to share your views.  Nothing hurts me these days.  I am very happy with who I am.


I didn't get very far in this thread before becoming aggravated multiple posts down

First, what do you mean by "lifestyle"?  
Being who you are and happy with who you are is a good thing.  

However, the terminology that's become popular in recent years does bug me.  And it's certainly not limited to gay folks, I'm just as disgusted when women and other groups use gutter-level vocabulary.  My viewpoint:  if a person wants to be respected, it starts by respecting oneself, and that approach "ain't" it.  Decent people don't use words like 'q---r,'  etc.  when referring to themselves or fellow human beings.


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 8, 2022)

I'm more concerned with a person's behavior than I am about a person's ****** orientation.

Straight or gay, live your life and spare me the details.


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## Leann (Jun 8, 2022)

I have two cousins who are gay, one is a male on my Mother's side and the other is a female on my Father's side. Even though I was raised in a strict Catholic environment, neither cousin was ever shunned or made to feel different in any way by anyone in my family. I dated a guy in college who was still in the closet. I adored him - he was funny as hell and super smart. He came out to me because he was afraid to tell anyone else at the time. He's become a successful lawyer and has a terrific husband. We are still friends all these decades later.

I don't care about someone's ****** orientation, race, religion, socioeconomic status, gender, education level, career or anything else. What matters to me in very basic terms is how they treat others. Kindness and respect are what matters.

@dseag2 you seem like a truly nice guy and I love that you and your husband have such a nurturing, enduring relationship. Love is love.


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## feywon (Jun 8, 2022)

oldaunt said:


> And straight males go after young girls. Where is that different? There are bad people in all walks of life. And I have personally seen straight women acting like the most irritating males I have ever met.


And pedophile priests and pedophiles in general have been known to assault both boys and girls. But i doubt every Boy Scout leader that is a pedophile was actually gay.  Pedophiles don't always make the distinction between genders.

On top of that i have known men who were childhood ****** and other abuse victims by women perpetrators.


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## Alligatorob (Jun 8, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> the gay lifestyle


To be honest I don't really know what that is.  I have a few gay friends and relatives, but they don't seem to me to lead any particular lifestyles.  Maybe my gay experience is too limited.

I do know how some TV shows and movies present gay people and their lifestyles, but I never considered that real.


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## UncleVinny (Jun 8, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> I posted this in the history thread, but thought I might share this here, as a reminder...
> 
> Gay Military Heroes. And that is just one example of the extraordinary contributions of the gay community to society.
> 
> ...


Missed Vietnam? You did not miss anything worth lamenting Jon, trust me.

AND, Gay females are jes' fine with me, fact of the matter is, I am a Male Lesbian and have been all my life. I am also quite able to hide my lesbianism from straight women who might object to that lifestyle choice and send me packing.

Gay males are hunky dory in my book too. I have always  encouraged adult males to go thataway. More chicks for me, doncha know!!

U.V.


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## ElCastor (Jun 8, 2022)

oldaunt said:


> And straight males go after young girls. Where is that different? There are bad people in all walks of life. And I have personally seen straight women acting like the most irritating males I have ever met.


Quite true, but by the same token I doubt you have heard about Gay women plaguing the Girl Scouts or acting as carriers of HIV, Syphilis, and now Monkeypox. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against gay men as people. I could care less who they sleep with - none of my business. In fact, the best man I ever worked for was gay. Unfortunately he lived with one of his direct reports, a gay man, until the auditors found out, and no, I didn't turn him in. A long standing friend and co-worker was Gay. He died of Hepatitis, a common Gay disease. Another manager (who I didn't care for) spent every lunch hour in a gay bar. He was married with two children (boys). He left his family and moved in with a gay man. His boys were reportedly beyond upset. He eventually died of Aids.

Here's an interesting Wiki site for you to check out...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association


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## Pink Biz (Jun 8, 2022)




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## Buckeye (Jun 8, 2022)

I keep hearing the word "lifestyle", and I wonder if my grandparents or my parents ever considered their "lifestyle".  I hear TV ads for products that will "fit my lifestyle" - diets, loans, credit cards, cars, you name it.  

In fact, I have no idea what my own "lifestyle" might me, let alone what the "gay lifestyle" would entail.

Sorry.


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## win231 (Jun 8, 2022)

It don't matter to me (like that Bread song).
On a couple of occasions when I was young, I've had gay guys try to pick up on me.
Big deal.  I just smiled & said, "Wrong number; you're wasting your time.  But, if you have a sister........"
People who have serious issues with gays are probably insecure about their own sexuality.


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## dseag2 (Jun 8, 2022)

Trish said:


> By gay lifestyle, do you mean being attracted to people of the same sex?  If so, I hope they find happiness like everyone else and that life is no longer as difficult for them as it was for my school friend (Denis) back in the early 1970's, when he left because he felt he would never belong in this world.
> 
> I guess by "lifestyle" you might mean promiscuity?  If so, I have always thought that was a bit of a myth as my gay friends seemed no different to my straight friends in that some were promiscuous and some were not.
> 
> @dseag2 I hope you and your partner have many more years to love and enjoy together x


Sorry @Trish, I guess I should have worded the title differently.  I was simply asking how members felt about gay people in general.  There was no "promiscuity" implied because that is not my thing.

I mentioned in another thread that I actually think it is sad that the most outrageous gay people are the ones who sometimes make the media.  We have at least 5 gay couples in our mostly straight neighborhood and we and our straight friends all socialize and take care of each other.


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## dseag2 (Jun 8, 2022)

rgp said:


> Well, you said be honest, you have thick skin, etc. So....One gripe with them is the name itself. [Gay] meaning queer. I mean if they are so proud .... thats great, be proud of what you are .... queer .... quit hiding behind a word that used to mean 'happy'
> 
> And why do they need all this special attention ? Pride month, parades  , their own flag etc. Just be who you are, love who you choose , screw who you choose. Quit making such a spectical of yourselves.
> 
> ...


Yes, I did ask everyone to be honest, so thank you for your candor.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 8, 2022)

I don't believe it's any of my business what type of lifestyle and preferences someone has.  As long as they are not hurting me and they are not, I'm fine.  I have gay family members and they are very nice people.  And also there is a spectrum that people fall into concerning gay and hetero and I don't fall 100% into the hetero area anyways.  Many of us don't and that's just being human.  We are all different.


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## Been There (Jun 8, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> *You wrote:
> 
> Keep your private life just that, private.*
> 
> ...


I wasn't going to reply to your post, but you seem to "think" you know a lot about me. You make assumptions based on what again? I have read many of your posts and I have also wondered if you are a real person or just another bot taking up the time of the good people here, maybe even some believing your fantasy stories. 
I spent several years in the Marines after graduating from the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis and after discharge I was offered a job at the Pentagon in the Office of the Secretary of Defense with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and hold a Class 2 clearance. Had no father or mother since the age of 9, but thanks to my wonderful paternal grandparents I did well in life. 
The OP asked for honest opinions and I was being as honest as I could be. Like the old saying goes, "If you don't want to know, don't ask."  I am no phony and I don't pretend to be someone I am not WYSIWYG. 
If you don't like my posts, I believe you have the choice of ignoring me, so please take advantage of that opportunity to do so and then you won't be offended by anymore of my posts. 
This is all that I have to say on the matter.


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## Trish (Jun 9, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Sorry @Trish, I guess I should have worded the title differently.  I was simply asking how members felt about gay people in general.  There was no "promiscuity" implied because that is not my thing.
> 
> I mentioned in another thread that I actually think it is sad that the most outrageous gay people are the ones who sometimes make the media.  We have at least 5 gay couples in our mostly straight neighborhood and we and our straight friends all socialize and take care of each other.



No worries @dseag2  Actually, I shouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that that is what you meant.

I think it is always the way though, those who shout loudest get the most attention but, in real life, I have found that most people are just looking for what you and your partner have;  love and happiness


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## dseag2 (Jun 9, 2022)

Been There said:


> I never understood why men wanted to have sex with other men. I know some men will get excited watching two women having sex, but even the idea of two men having sex repulses me. As for the person themselves, I am OK with being around them, so long as they don't come onto me or even make comments that may reflect wanting to have more than just a friendly relationship. And please, don't tell me about how much you and John love each other. Keep your private life just that, private.


Thank you for your response.  I seriously doubt that any gay man would want to come onto you, so don't flatter yourself.  

Welcome to the forum!  I have a feeling we are going to have a fun time together.


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## JonSR77 (Jun 9, 2022)

Been There said:


> I wasn't going to reply to your post, but you seem to "think" you know a lot about me. You make assumptions based on what again? I have read many of your posts and I have also wondered if you are a real person or just another bot taking up the time of the good people here, maybe even some believing your fantasy stories.
> I spent several years in the Marines after graduating from the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis and after discharge I was offered a job at the Pentagon in the Office of the Secretary of Defense with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and hold a Class 2 clearance. Had no father or mother since the age of 9, but thanks to my wonderful paternal grandparents I did well in life.
> The OP asked for honest opinions and I was being as honest as I could be. Like the old saying goes, "If you don't want to know, don't ask."  I am no phony and I don't pretend to be someone I am not WYSIWYG.
> If you don't like my posts, I believe you have the choice of ignoring me, so please take advantage of that opportunity to do so and then you won't be offended by anymore of my posts.
> This is all that I have to say on the matter.



I have a friend who's sister is in the Pentagon. You are not the only person to be connected to realms of power. Another person I know, her son is a Colonel in the Pentagon.

I don't know you?

Well, you don't know me.

In two separate incidents, I protected Vets going into a PTSD episode, at significant risk to my own safety.  Have you gone into life-threatening situations, without a weapon and risked your life to help and protect others?  I have.  And many of us in the non-profit world have done that.  Worked in war zones, just trying to bring food and medicine to people.  Those liberals that you guys hate, with as much courage as any soldier who ever took up arms.  You think it is easy to defy some African warlord, to bring some medicine into a village??? You think that is not a life-threatening risk???

I consulted on a concert for Vets, put on by one of Mariah Carey's back-up singers, who lived in town.

I donated goods to a Veteran's Hospital.

We have a friend, a combat Vet from Vietnam, a Marine. He goes suicidal from time to time. I was one of the people orchestrating a watch for him to keep him safe.

So, don't presume you know me, or my dedication to the truth and to God. And...to Vets.  My Dad and step-father both served in WWII. They always told me to honor the vet.  And I have tried hard to do just that. 


I can't imagine that the current Secretary of Defense would enjoy your posts.

Surrendering to anger and hatred and prejudice and bigotry....that is weakness. That is you surrendering to the Devil.

And don't presume that God doesn't let us know who is doing what to whom. We know. We honor compassion, not vindictive revenge. We don't sneak around, stalking people and trying to press our influence on society. I have run into endless military people, going online doing all sorts of acts of illegal harassment and abuse. And how many of those guys absorb demented beliefs and join into white supremacist groups, militia groups? 

If you guys want to police society...start with your own house. Help root out white supremacy in the military. 

Or, the 100,000 vets coming back from the Mid-East with PTSD. And almost all of them getting maybe 5% of the care they need. Go fight that battle to get them real help.

Who told you that the bad guys are the people working on those kinds of issues? Why would you ever listen to that used car salesman? 


Don't throw away your eternal soul for a small temporary gain in the material world. Status and position and whatever. You are valuing pennies. God is the gold. Value that and walk away from the anger and hatred.


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## Blessed (Jun 9, 2022)

All of that just breaks my heart, our veterans do not need to go at each other. Anyone who is an American who is brave, strong, dedicated, caring for their fellow Americans that put their selfs in harms way are to be respected, honored, admire by all fellow Americans.

You both have gone way off topic here. Step back and realize we love our military past and current.


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## Alligatorob (Jun 9, 2022)

Been There said:


> I never understood why men wanted to have sex with other men.


Neither do I, but if they do I don't see that it is my place to object.


dseag2 said:


> I seriously doubt that any gay man would want to come onto you


Never happened to me, not that I would want it.  If one ever did I might find it an odd experience, but not really a big deal, not so long as he took no for an answer.


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## Mr. Ed (Jun 9, 2022)

Please clear something up for me. Are homosexual male/female born attracted to the same sex? My daughter has never done well in a heterosexual relationship but seems to thrive in same-sex relationships.


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## katlupe (Jun 9, 2022)

My opinion on the gay lifestyle is the same as on any other lifestyle. I have had many gay friends and spent a lot of years going to the beach at Fire Island (the community I went to was almost all gay) in the 70's and 80's. I have worked with gay people of both sexes and considered them good friends. My cousin is gay and married his spouse as soon as they could legally do so. They have been together since they were in high school. They have a beautiful home and adopted three children and now are grandparents. 

I treat people based on their personality and on the way they treat others (including animals). People with integrity no matter what their ****** preference is.


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## Blessed (Jun 9, 2022)

Yes, if someone is born that way, they are who they are, it is not a choice.  Think of it as you.  You were born who you are, you can't change that.  You have identified who you are, you are accepting who and why you are.  You are working on your mental health.  In your daughters case, she is doing the same thing, leave it be, let her work through who she is and she will be fine. It is a different thing.  She is not having a problem with mental health, she is trying to figure out who she is.


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## oldaunt (Jun 9, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> Please clear something up for me. Are homosexual male/female born attracted to the same sex? My daughter has never done well in a heterosexual relationship but seems to thrive in same-sex relationships.


There is much medical research that says yes, they are born that way.


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## oldaunt (Jun 9, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Quite true, but by the same token I doubt you have heard about Gay women plaguing the Girl Scouts or acting as carriers of HIV, Syphilis, and now Monkeypox. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against gay men as people. I could care less who they sleep with - none of my business. In fact, the best man I ever worked for was gay. Unfortunately he lived with one of his direct reports, a gay man, until the auditors found out, and no, I didn't turn him in. A long standing friend and co-worker was Gay. He died of Hepatitis, a common Gay disease. Another manager (who I didn't care for) spent every lunch hour in a gay bar. He was married with two children (boys). He left his family and moved in with a gay man. His boys were reportedly beyond upset. He eventually died of Aids.
> 
> Here's an interesting Wiki site for you to check out...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association


And why would you "doubt I have heard"? Isn't that awfully condescending of you, just because I didn't take the time to list EVERYTHING?


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Jun 9, 2022)

I have no problem with a Gay person.   What I dislike is having the 'gay lifestyle' pushed at me and my family.  I promise not to show my ****** preferences in public, I expect others to do the same.  My 3-year-old Granddaughter does not need to see two gay folks 'French kissing' in a restaurant.  This type of ****** displays by gays or non-gays to me is not acceptable.   Hugging, holding hands, is ok, but keep it limited...most folks understand the normal limits of public ****** displays...

Additionally, the media, including advertisers should not demonstrate the gay lifestyle without appropriate warnings so parents of very young kids are exposed to things they are not yet mature enough to understand.  

Basically, don't do things to push your ****** preferences in my FACE!  Not Cool!


----------



## Blessed (Jun 9, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> That is going happen from time to time.  Parents will discuss it with their children is old enough.  Children are going to be exposed in public and in media. It is just another fact of life that will have to be dealt with in the appropriate way


----------



## spectratg (Jun 9, 2022)

My oldest daughter and her partner, now wife, have been together for 20 years.  My daughter gave birth to both of my two oldest granddaughters (using the same sperm donor for both).  They have a happy normal life in suburbia, just like my other three daughters who have husbands.  So their "gay lifestyle" is the same as any "non-gay lifestyle."  Honestly, I'm surprised that anyone would consider this a topic of conversation in 2022.


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Jun 9, 2022)

Conceptually, I do not disagree with what you say, but a three-year-old cannot process this information.  It is all about protecting our young kids from all types of ****** activities, other than holding hands, kissing (Not French) etc. ...   Once a child gets into noticing boys and girls, it is something they will have to learn about.   Most all adults feel uncomfortable doing any heavy ****** acts in public...gay or not gay!  Common sense applies here...


----------



## JaniceM (Jun 9, 2022)

oldaunt said:


> There is much medical research that says yes, they are born that way.


Maybe @dseag2 can input on that..  but it's what I've always believed, too.  

But I rarely put much stock in what so-called experts say on anything, because it's just a matter of one theory after another.  
On this topic specifically, I recall decades ago when the widespread theory was boys raised by single mothers, or with 'domineering' mothers and 'weak' fathers were almost certain to 'become gay' (I guess they didn't think lesbians existed?).  And the 'choice' theory is still widespread, too-  even read it on another forum a few months ago.  

Of all the gay males I've ever known, there were only 2 I intensely disliked-  but it had nothing to do with their 'preferences,' they were just jerks.  I've only known 3 lesbians-  all super people, too.


----------



## Gary O' (Jun 9, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I have a thick skin, so feel free to share your views.


@dseag2

Yer a nice guy

Jesus asks only two things of us in His commandments;

Be nice to God
Be nice to your neighbor

That's all
That's it

Doesn't talk about who or what we are

Not much to ask....seems

Hope to see you in the new earth

Where
*'He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.'*


Lots to talk about


----------



## oldaunt (Jun 9, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Maybe @dseag2 can input on that..  but it's what I've always believed, too.
> 
> But I rarely put much stock in what so-called experts say on anything, because it's just a matter of one theory after another.
> On this topic specifically, I recall decades ago when the widespread theory was boys raised by single mothers, or with 'domineering' mothers and 'weak' fathers were almost certain to 'become gay' (I guess they didn't think lesbians existed?).  And the 'choice' theory is still widespread, too-  even read it on another forum a few months ago.
> ...


They have found there are actual differences in the way the brain is 'wired', for lack of a better word.


----------



## JaniceM (Jun 9, 2022)

oldaunt said:


> They have found there are actual differences in the way the brain is 'wired', for lack of a better word.


That makes sense.


----------



## feywon (Jun 9, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> ...
> Basically, don't do things to push your ****** preferences in my FACE!  Not Cool!


Yet a good many cisgendered men (not all but in my youthful experience--many)find it perfectly acceptable to voice their preferences to others especially women. Including critiqueing the clothing styles, body shape and facial expressions of women who are complete strangers to them.

And don't get me started on the InCels.


----------



## Pepper (Jun 9, 2022)

oldaunt said:


> They have found there are actual differences in the way the brain is 'wired', for lack of a better word.


Could you site any studies?  "Wired" how?  What is the difference?  I kind of don't believe this.


----------



## feywon (Jun 9, 2022)

When i was younger and men would say to me they were 'fine with gays existing, as long as they don't hit on me'.  I'd often respond "Welcome to our world, you might want think about that next time you're getting pushy with a woman who has rebuffed YOUR unwanted advances.


----------



## oldaunt (Jun 9, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Could you site any studies?  "Wired" how?  What is the difference?  I kind of don't believe this.


Google is your friend. I actually dug up those studies about 10 years ago, so no, I can't cite them now.


----------



## Pepper (Jun 9, 2022)

oldaunt said:


> Google is your friend. I actually dug up those studies about 10 years ago, so no, I can't cite them now.


Sorry, if you make a claim, it's up to you to back it up.  Yes, I'm aware of my friendship with Google.


----------



## oldaunt (Jun 9, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Sorry, if you make a claim, it's up to you to back it up.  Yes, I'm aware of my friendship with Google.


Not my claim, just a report. Ask me if I care....


----------



## ElCastor (Jun 9, 2022)

oldaunt said:


> And why would you "doubt I have heard"? Isn't that awfully condescending of you, just because I didn't take the time to list EVERYTHING?


Huh? I was pointing out that while gay men have become a huge problem for the Boy Scouts (and the Catholic Church)  "I doubt you have heard" of a similar problem with gay women and the Girl Scouts. Just looked it up, and it has happened, but nowhere near the extent of the molestation problem of Boy Scouts by gay male scoutmasters. Sexually transmitted disease in the gay male community has become such a problem that the CDC has developed an abbreviation MSM -- men who have sex with men. Go ahead, Google "CDC MSM" and you will get more than a million hits.


----------



## oldaunt (Jun 9, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Huh? I was pointing out that while gay men have become a huge problem for the Boy Scouts (and the Catholic Church)  "I doubt you have heard" of a similar problem with gay women and the Girl Scouts. Just looked it up, and it has happened, but nowhere near the extent of the molestation problem of Boy Scouts by gay male scoutmasters. Sexually transmitted disease in the gay male community has become such a problem that the CDC has developed an abbreviation MSM -- men who have sex with men. Go ahead, Google "CDC MSM" and you will get more than a million hits.


Let me try rewording it. WHY do you assume I don't KNOW these things already? I DO pay attention.....


----------



## Wontactmyage (Jun 9, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I keep seeing these posts pop up against the gay lifestyle.  I would like to see some of you who are truly against it step up and say so and why.  I have a thick skin, so feel free to share your views.  Nothing hurts me these days.  I am very happy with who I am.


I have a few off topic (kind of) questions. How long have you lived in Dallas? My Mom lived in the Oaklawn area back in the day.


----------



## mike4lorie (Jun 9, 2022)

Never been a big person on the gay and lesbian lifestyles, and I am still very much against it, but our oldest came home a few weeks ago to tell us he is Gay, I've had a very hard time with it, but I am managing...


----------



## dseag2 (Jun 9, 2022)

Wontactmyage said:


> I have a few off topic (kind of) questions. How long have you lived in Dallas? My Mom lived in the Oaklawn area back in the day.


16 years, near White Rock Lake.  Love it here!


----------



## dseag2 (Jun 9, 2022)

mike4lorie said:


> Never been a big person on the gay and lesbian lifestyles, and I am still very much against it, but our oldest came home a few weeks ago to tell us he is Gay, I've had a very hard time with it, but I am managing...


I'm sure it isn't easy for you @mike4lorie.  Both my parents (and myself) were raised in the Southern Baptist church.  My parents had a tough time initially as well, but ultimately they just wanted me to make the decisions that would make me happy.  My father lived long enough to see me be successful in my career and to get to know my partner of 30 years.  When he passed, we took care of my mother for 22 years until she also passed.  I swear she loved my partner more than me. 

You never know how things will turn out.  Just give your son love and support if you can.  Most of the positive responses I've seen in this thread have been from those who have gay friends, relatives or children because in time you just see the person, not the preference.


----------



## Wontactmyage (Jun 9, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> 16 years, near White Rock Lake.  Love it here!


I lived near White Rock seems like many many years ago. Moved away in 2008. 

Oaklawn area was an epic center for AIDs. My mother had so many gay friends pass away. 

I know this sounds cliché but had dealings with many gay florists as floriculture was my chosen profession.


----------



## dseag2 (Jun 9, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Never happened to me, not that I would want it.  If one ever did I might find it an odd experience, but not really a big deal, not so long as he took no for an answer.


If it ever does happen



and consider yourself good-looking.


----------



## dseag2 (Jun 9, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Maybe @dseag2 can input on that..  but it's what I've always believed, too.
> 
> But I rarely put much stock in what so-called experts say on anything, because it's just a matter of one theory after another.
> On this topic specifically, I recall decades ago when the widespread theory was boys raised by single mothers, or with 'domineering' mothers and 'weak' fathers were almost certain to 'become gay' (I guess they didn't think lesbians existed?).  And the 'choice' theory is still widespread, too-  even read it on another forum a few months ago.
> ...


Yes, I will weigh in.  I do believe it is genetic.

Sorry in advance for all the details.  Those who don't want to read them can move on to another thread.

I grew up in the Southern Baptist religion and believed being homosexual was a sin.  I even went to a Southern Baptist high school.  I had a girlfriend for 3 years in high school and we were sexually intimate, but I still knew I preferred men.  We are still friends and in touch these days, although we are both married.  It would have been a tremendous injustice to her if we had married.  She now understands that.

I knew at 9 years old that I was "different" but chose to hide it because of everything I had been taught.  I thought being gay was disgusting and I hated myself for my innermost thoughts.  But I could not change them.  It took me many years to accept myself.  I worked hard in my career and became successful to compensate for my feelings of inadequacy.  It has actually been only recently that I've realized why I had these feelings and have become self-accepting.  I was called "queer", "sissy" and "fag" and it was tremendously hurtful at the time.  Now that I am older and realize I was a good son, a good provider, a considerate person, a good friend, a contributor to my company's success, etc. that those words seem trivial.  I am so much more than those words, and I have a great life.

After my father passed away, my mother told me he was gay.  Perhaps that is why he was so supportive.  My father was one of 3 brothers and they each had one son.  One of my cousins is gay, so that leaves only one of the three sons who is straight.  So, yes, I believe it is genetic and even perhaps hereditary.

Thank you to anyone who reads through this thread.


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## CrowFlies (Jun 9, 2022)

i grew up across from Fire Island.  in HS i worked and stayed over there....a friends family owned
a business on the island so i had a summer job.

thus i grew up around gay people. we went to all the diff village areas on the island. i hung around
with the cabbies in the Pines and rode around with them often too.

it was just acceptable around us then.  i remember meeting Anthony from UK, new to the island.
he was so fun nice adorably cute.  he'd be at lunch and invite me to sit and BS.
anyhow...it didnt seem odd to us kids back then.


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## Been There (Jun 10, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> I have a friend who's sister is in the Pentagon. You are not the only person to be connected to realms of power. Another person I know, her son is a Colonel in the Pentagon.
> 
> I don't know you?
> 
> ...


Sorry, your post makes no sense.


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## Alice_B (Jun 10, 2022)

I do not have a problem with gay lifestyles. I just simply do not understand why they have to make such a fuss about it. Why can't they be gay like we are straight without needing parades and special anagrams and all the fan fare? I don't get it. Just be yourself. No one really cares whether you are gay or not. It's more of a big deal to them than it is to me.


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## kburra (Jun 10, 2022)

Probably a bit off-topic, but why did the homosexual community hijack the word GAY and PRIDE, and also a RAINBOW does not have the magic it once had for me anyway!


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## Alligatorob (Jun 10, 2022)

kburra said:


> Probably a bit off-topic, but why did the homosexual community hijack the word GAY and PRIDE, and also a RAINBOW does not have the magic it once had for me anyway!


Language changes, in many ways.  I don't let this stop me from using the words the way I always have, though Christmas may never be quite the same...




Always preferred Pogo's version anyway.




_"Don’t we know archaic barrel"_


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## Alligatorob (Jun 10, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> If it ever does happen ... consider yourself good-looking.


LOL, suppose that explains why it hasn't happened, and likely never will.  Now I am a bit disappointed!


dseag2 said:


> I grew up in the Southern Baptist religion and believed being homosexual was a sin.


My father was Southern Baptist, my mother Methodist.  Mostly remember going to the Southern Baptist church with my grandmother, the only one in the family who was very religious.  I remember lots of fire and brimstone stuff, but nothing about gay, maybe since I wasn't I wasn't thinking about it.  We were taught the biblical basis for slavery...


ElCastor said:


> molestation problem of Boy Scouts by gay male scoutmasters


My scoutmaster made us play games for him where we all ended up naked and running around the campfire.  Looking back he probably was one of those, or had the potential to be.  However, he drank so heavily that he passed out early on, so far as I know he never actually molested anyone.  After he passed out we would sneak off to shoplift beer and cigarettes.  Never got a merit badge for that...

I think today a scoutmaster cannot take the boys camping by himself, probably for the best.

Interesting thread @dseag2 . Thanks!


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## JaniceM (Jun 10, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Huh? I was pointing out that while gay men have become a huge problem for the Boy Scouts (and the Catholic Church)  "I doubt you have heard" of a similar problem with gay women and the Girl Scouts. Just looked it up, and it has happened, but nowhere near the extent of the molestation problem of Boy Scouts by gay male scoutmasters. Sexually transmitted disease in the gay male community has become such a problem that the CDC has developed an abbreviation MSM -- men who have sex with men. Go ahead, Google "CDC MSM" and you will get more than a million hits.


Unless there's been an update I didn't hear about, it was long ago found the majority of pedophiles are not gay.


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## rgp (Jun 10, 2022)

Alice_B said:


> I do not have a problem with gay lifestyles. I just simply do not understand why they have to make such a fuss about it. Why can't they be gay like we are straight without needing parades and special anagrams and all the fan fare? I don't get it. Just be yourself. No one really cares whether you are gay or not. It's more of a big deal to them than it is to me.



 Because they are just a bunch of folks that are starved for attention.


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## JaniceM (Jun 10, 2022)

Alice_B said:


> I do not have a problem with gay lifestyles. I just simply do not understand why they have to make such a fuss about it. Why can't they be gay like we are straight without needing parades and special anagrams and all the fan fare? I don't get it. Just be yourself. No one really cares whether you are gay or not. It's more of a big deal to them than it is to me.


Just guessing, but possibly like other groups that have long been beaten down, discriminated against, etc., and are finally getting the acknowledgement they deserve as human beings?


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## win231 (Jun 10, 2022)

Alice_B said:


> I do not have a problem with gay lifestyles. I just simply do not understand why they have to make such a fuss about it. Why can't they be gay like we are straight without needing parades and special anagrams and all the fan fare? I don't get it. Just be yourself. No one really cares whether you are gay or not. It's more of a big deal to them than it is to me.


^^^^ Something I've also wondered about.


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## Pepper (Jun 10, 2022)

After literally thousands of years, gay people can, since Stonewall 1969, proclaim proudly who they are with the law FINALLY on their side.  Thousands of years.  Time to CELEBRATE gay freedom; it's about time.  Enjoy the party, we're all one.

No one stole words (gay, pride, rainbow).  They are words.  Use the words any way you want.


----------



## Marie5656 (Jun 10, 2022)

I have no issues. Love is Love. I feel people dislike what they do not understand.
I have never understood the issue though; I know people say is because gay couples do not procreate. But they do adopt unwanted children.   My niece is gay. Her only agenda is to live a good and happy life with her partner


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## JonSR77 (Jun 10, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Yes, I will weigh in.  I do believe it is genetic.
> 
> Sorry in advance for all the details.  Those who don't want to read them can move on to another thread.
> 
> ...



My friend Ken is a Vietnam combat Vet, a former Marine. He has something like 5 or six brothers. So the whole family is gathered at a lunch. One of his brothers gets up and says, "I have an announcement to make. I am gay." The other brothers look around at each other. Another brother stands up and says, "I also have an announcement to make. I am also gay." Then, a third brother gets up and also says that he is gay.

My friend Ken looks at his remaining brother. The brother says to him, "nope, Ken, not gay."

So, 3 out of 5 brothers are gay?

It's gotta be genetic.


By the way, little funny aside. I met Ken, because he became a performance poet and starting coming to our shows. So, Ken was on his Harley. Gets pulled over by a cop. Cop goes to him, "Where are you going in a hurry?" And Ken has the perfect retort, because it is just flat out true, "I am going to Harvard to read my poetry..."


----------



## JonSR77 (Jun 10, 2022)

Here's my general take.  If you have lived this long and are 60,70 and up...  Let's be honest, by now we have all realized one underlying truth.

We are all weird and crazy.

Gals are crazy.

Guys are crazy.


We are all nuts. All of us. If you believe differently, you haven't been looking very hard.


So, just relax, enjoy the entire festival of weird and crazy humanity ---- because we are all nuts.

Oh, you know, big tough guys who can't have their morning coffee without a few of those tiny marshmallows.

Gentle, sweet caring ladies who just love a good war movie with tons of action.

C'mon, people, let's be real.


So, just enjoy the parade of the differences. And what is behind it. And what is behind it is just another person. Just another person who loved their mom and their mom loved them. Just another person who survived some amazing things, who cared about and helped other people.

We are all crazy. And we are also all amazing.


Dwelling on the differences just creates a reason for negativity. We are all just one thing...humans.

I have been plenty judgmental about many things. I am nowhere near perfection. I am dwelling down in Loserville myself.

But I have hopes. And I want us all to, you know, just get along, have some fun, enjoy each other's company.

"Life is very short. And there's no time for fussin' and fighting..."


----------



## ElCastor (Jun 10, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Unless there's been an update I didn't hear about, it was long ago found the majority of pedophiles are not gay.


I regret for both of us that you brought this up, but since you did I feel compelled to respond. Since gay males appear to make up less than 4% of the population, and straights the other 96%, I would expect that the majority of US victims of pedophilia are likely girls and not the work of gay males, however gay males have seen to establish a North American Man Boy Love Association. Curious?
"A 2017 Gallup poll concluded that 4.5% of adult Americans identified as LGBT with 5.1% of women identifying as LGBT, compared with 3.9% of men."   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation#United_States
"The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is a pedophilia and pederasty advocacy organization in the United States. It works to abolish age-of-consent laws criminalizing adult ****** involvement with minors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association

I will skip the bad publicity and turmoil the Boy Scouts and Catholic Church have experienced over the past few years.


----------



## JaniceM (Jun 10, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> I regret for both of us that you brought this up, but since you did I feel compelled to respond. Since gay males appear to make up less than 4% of the population, and straights the other 96%, I would expect that the majority of US victims of pedophilia are likely girls and not the work of gay males, however gay males have seen to establish a North American Man Boy Love Association. Curious?
> "A 2017 Gallup poll concluded that 4.5% of adult Americans identified as LGBT with 5.1% of women identifying as LGBT, compared with 3.9% of men."   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation#United_States
> "The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is a pedophilia and pederasty advocacy organization in the United States. It works to abolish age-of-consent laws criminalizing adult ****** involvement with minors"
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association
> ...


First, I didn't bring it up, you did. (edited to add: that's what I was replying to.)

Second, while I certainly believe pedophiles- including but not limited to that disgusting group NAMBLA- should be knocked off the earth, I've never seen/read anything that said they were gay.


----------



## Pepper (Jun 10, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> First, I didn't bring it up, you did.
> 
> Second, while I certainly believe pedophiles- including but not limited to that disgusting group NAMBLA- should be knocked off the earth, I've never seen/read anything that said they were gay.


Yeah, NAMBLA is run by only very few gay males.  Howard Stern used to have some discussions with them.


----------



## Jan14 (Jun 10, 2022)

I don’t have a problem with the gay lifestyle.  Does this make me a lesser Christian?  I’ve struggled with this question.  However, I feel I’m not supposed to judge other people, but to love them.   I have gays in my family.


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## Alligatorob (Jun 10, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> 5.1% of women identifying as LGBT


Hmmm, thought it had to be higher than that.  

Based on most women's lack of interest in me anyway.  Must be some other reason?  Hard to imagine what...


----------



## Trish (Jun 10, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Hmmm, thought it had to be higher than that.
> 
> Based on most women's lack of interest in me anyway.  Must be some other reason?  Hard to imagine what...


They probably think you are out of their league


----------



## oldman (Jun 10, 2022)

I just read every post on this thread and spent 44 minutes doing it. Some I had to read twice because I couldn’t understand them the first time. I am being honest. Too many of you said the same thing.

I have gay friends.
I have gay relatives.
I work with gay people.
I don’t care what gays do.
As long as they love each other.
As long as they leave me alone.
Of all the posts, I liked the post by Been There. He seemed the most honest. Probably too honest. He seemed to offend some people. 
feywon’s posts are very deep, but make sense.
One Eyed Diva asked some good questions and made some very good points. 
Many of the posts were the same, just stated differently.
I thought I would have seen more religious postings.
JMO 
I have nothing to add that hasn’t already been stated. Good topic, good debate. This is what makes SF a good forum. 
BTW, I came on the topic “Underground’ by accident. I never knew it existed.


----------



## mike4lorie (Jun 10, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I'm sure it isn't easy for you @mike4lorie.  Both my parents (and myself) were raised in the Southern Baptist church.  My parents had a tough time initially as well, but ultimately they just wanted me to make the decisions that would make me happy.  My father lived long enough to see me be successful in my career and to get to know my partner of 30 years.  When he passed, we took care of my mother for 22 years until she also passed.  I swear she loved my partner more than me.
> 
> You never know how things will turn out.  Just give your son love and support if you can.  Most of the positive responses I've seen in this thread have been from those who have gay friends, relatives or children because in time you just see the person, not the preference.


Thank you for your words @dseag2 , Yes every day I give my son the love and support he needs, and yeah his partner is a great guy. And I can see how happy they make each other.  I just hope, and I am not being rude when I say this, but I can get past the gay part... I treat them both with nothing but respect and love, but I just have a very hard time getting past the gay part. They came to see us last winter, and we ended up in a huge snow storm, and we invited them to stay the night, but I just couldn't get past letting them sleep in the same bed. But, before everyone gets annoyed with what I just said, when my daughter and her then boyfriend, now married, but then I would not let them share the bed in my house... But @dseag2 , I am working at it...


----------



## dseag2 (Jun 10, 2022)

mike4lorie said:


> Thank you for your words @dseag2 , Yes every day I give my son the love and support he needs, and yeah his partner is a great guy. And I can see how happy they make each other.  I just hope, and I am not being rude when I say this, but I can get past the gay part... I treat them both with nothing but respect and love, but I just have a very hard time getting past the gay part. They came to see us last winter, and we ended up in a huge snow storm, and we invited them to stay the night, but I just couldn't get past letting them sleep in the same bed. But, before everyone gets annoyed with what I just said, when my daughter and her then boyfriend, now married, but then I would not let them share the bed in my house... But @dseag2 , I am working at it...


You are more than welcome.  My partner is Filipino, and Filipino fathers tend to be very chauvinistic and religious.  His father never acknowledged the fact that we were "together", but we were always with him at family events and holidays.  He came to our house in South Florida for Christmas right before we moved.  I knew he was glad that his son was happy.  He actually gave us a cake plate one Christmas, which we both found endearing because neither of us cook, but it was his way of acknowledging that we were in a "domestic relationship".

I don't take offense at all for your choice not to have your son and his partner sleep in the same bed, since as you said you had the same standards for your daughter and her boyfriend.  It is admirable that you are working on accepting his life.  Be glad that he actually has a partner.  That will hopefully make his life so much easier.  So many young gay men these days are lonely and can't find anyone.  I'm always happy to share my perspective if it helps to understand it all.


----------



## kburra (Jun 10, 2022)

Pepper said:


> After literally thousands of years, gay people can, since Stonewall 1969, proclaim proudly who they are with the law FINALLY on their side.  Thousands of years.  Time to CELEBRATE gay freedom; it's about time.  Enjoy the party, we're all one.
> 
> *No one stole words (gay, pride, rainbow).  They are words.  Use the words any way you want.*


I beg to differ, those words now have Homosexuality association, when before they NEVER did!


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## Alligatorob (Jun 10, 2022)

kburra said:


> I beg to differ, those words now have Homosexuality association, when before they NEVER did!


So?


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## morgan (Jun 10, 2022)

The temptation is too great and I have to say something! Homosexuality is not some new phenomenon, it has been around since the beginning of mankind. Much of it hidden I grant you. Why is it made a big deal of? 
I am straight, you are gay, so what?? I am not special and you are not special, so I ask simply this - why do you have to make a song and dance about it. I have met many gay men and I don't think I have heard one of them "confess"and make a big deal of being gay. I am puzzled as to why you think it is so important to do so  deseag?


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## Alligatorob (Jun 10, 2022)

@morgan What's to be mad about?  Lots of words have numerous meanings.


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## dseag2 (Jun 10, 2022)

Alice_B said:


> I do not have a problem with gay lifestyles. I just simply do not understand why they have to make such a fuss about it. Why can't they be gay like we are straight without needing parades and special anagrams and all the fan fare? I don't get it. Just be yourself. No one really cares whether you are gay or not. It's more of a big deal to them than it is to me.


I think gay people have protested in the streets for years for the same reason as African Americans... to gain equality and have our voices heard.  With that said, I saw more gay people interviewed about being gay on TV during Donahue in the 90's than I do today.  And I watch lots of TV!

Here is an article on how the Gay Rights movement changed the public's opinion so quickly.  An excerpt.

"But while it’s clear that the gay rights movement managed to change people’s minds faster than any other civil rights movement in memory, it’s less clear why. How, in 15 years, did Americans’ views flip on such a charged social issue? And why haven’t other groups that have also publicly fought discrimination managed to change public opinion as quickly? The answer lies in human behavior and demographic realities, as well as a winning strategy by gay rights activists that capitalized on both."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...256016-8720-11e9-98c1-e945ae5db8fb_story.html

I don't think gay people are knocking on anyone's door or acting out in public places to draw attention to themselves.  And my question to anyone who thinks gay people are too visible, is why did you choose to come to this thread?  I appreciate that you did, but I have to wonder.


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## dseag2 (Jun 10, 2022)

morgan said:


> The temptation is too great and I have to say something! Homosexuality is not some new phenomenon, it has been around since the beginning of mankind. Much of it hidden I grant you. Why is it made a big deal of?
> I am straight, you are gay, so what?? I am not special and you are not special, so I ask simply this - why do you have to make a song and dance about it. I have met many gay men and I don't think I have heard one of them "confess"and make a big deal of being gay. I am puzzled as to why you think it is so important to do so  deseag?


Please read my last post.  And the thread is up to 115 responses, so apparently some people are interested.  And there are many members in this forum who have "confessed" about topics like domestic abuse, kidnapping, weight issues, etc.  Why does that make my confessions any different?  Oh yes, just because you don't want to hear them.  So don't read them.


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## morgan (Jun 10, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Please read my last post.  And the thread is up to 115 responses, so apparently some people are interested.  And there are many members in this forum who have "confessed" about topics like domestic abuse, kidnapping, weight issues, etc.  Why does that make my confessions any different?  Oh yes, just because you don't want to hear them.  So don't read them.


My question has not been really answered. I also have to wonder why you think people replying to the thread denotes its importance. You asked the forum a question and people answered, that is all there is to it.

The important thing is why is it of such paramont importance to you? The battle is almost won where gay rights are concerned that should make you happy. However, what I see in you (*and you requested people to be honest)* is a need for acceptance by 100% of the population, that will not happen. Any less and you feel insecure and I have no idea why. I have always been told ( by my psychiatrist wife) that to be happy, you have to feel it within. I am not getting that vibe from you and I find it baffling.


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## dseag2 (Jun 10, 2022)

My question has not been really answered. I also have to wonder why you think people replying to the thread denotes its importance. You asked the forum a question and people answered, that is all there is to it.


morgan said:


> The important thing is why is it of such paramont importance to you? The battle is almost won where gay rights are concerned that should make you happy. However, what I see in you (*and you requested people to be honest)* is a need for acceptance by 100% of the population, that will not happen. Any less and you feel insecure and I have no idea why. I have always been told ( by my psychiatrist wife) that to be happy, you have to feel it within. I am not getting that vibe from you and I find it baffling.


Please do not try to psychoanalyze me in a forum, for god's sake.  I do not need acceptance from 100% of the population.  I have acceptance within myself.  I am here as one of the few members who represents the gay community, so I will say what I want to say.

And as for holding your wife up as the reason you are entitled to know exactly who I am and what my needs are, here you go...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/199707/why-shrinks-have-problems

This will be my last response to you.  I will see you in another thread.


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## Alligatorob (Jun 10, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> I would expect that the majority of US victims of pedophilia are likely girls and not the work of gay males


That is an interesting question.  Did Google research and found some conflicting information.  It seems you are correct, the vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual. However the question of the % of heterosexuals who are pedophiles compared to the % of homosexuals is less clear.  One good study I found said that homosexuals were more likely to have podophilic feelings, not a lot more though.  And nothing as to how likely they were to act on it...

This is a good article that says there is no difference: DO GAY MEN HAVE MORE ****** INTEREST IN CHILDREN THAN STRAIGHT MEN DO?

Anyway if there is a difference its not great.  It seems some small percentage of adults, no matter the ****** orientation, are pedophiles, or have the feelings anyway.


morgan said:


> I also have to wonder why you think people replying to the thread denotes its importance.


Don't know how truly important it is, but I have found the thread interesting.  Your posts included!


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## Alice_B (Jun 10, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I think gay people have protested in the streets for years for the same reason as African Americans... to gain equality and have our voices heard.  With that said, I saw more gay people interviewed about being gay on TV during Donahue in the 90's than I do today.  And I watch lots of TV!
> 
> Here is an article on how the Gay Rights movement changed the public's opinion so quickly.  An excerpt.
> 
> ...


Am I not allowed to respond just because I don't agree? You asked our opinion if I'm not mistaken. Then when it is given you want to know why we come to the thread? I'm sorry but I'm confused by your response to my response.


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## Blessed (Jun 11, 2022)

Alice_B said:


> Am I not allowed to respond just because I don't agree? You asked our opinion if I'm not mistaken. Then when it is given you want to know why we come to the thread? I'm sorry but I'm confused by your response to my response.



Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's on this board.  He was only responding to your post.  He is not being mean, he just gave answers regarding the reason the gay community has worked so hard for acceptance, equality, the legal rights that others have had that this community had to fight for.  

The same things the women, African Americans, Asian Americans and many other oppressed peoples have done.  We are equal in the eyes of God and the American constitution.

It would not surprise me if the older generation steps up, bans together to fight for better and more affordable healthcare, better Social Security dollars, better and more affordable housing. Yes, I will be in the parade!!


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