# Attempted double beheading in Melbourne



## Warrigal (Sep 24, 2014)

An 18 year old man has been shot dead outside a Melbourne police station. He had been acting provocatively in public, waving around the black ISIS flag and uttering threats after having his passport cancelled last week. The police have been aware of him for a number of months.

He was invited down to the police station for a "chat" but when he arrived he phoned the police and asked to meet them in the car park where he attacked two officers with a knife. One of them shot him dead. In his bag was an ISIS flag and a much larger knife for beheading.

Enough softly, softly. Next time raid at 5am with a riot squad.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-24/police-name-man-shot-dead-outside-melbourne-police-station/5765364 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-24/what-we-know-about-abdul-numan-haider/5767044

Meanwhile, after threats to behead the PM, security at Parliament House has been beefed up.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-24/armed-police-on-standby-inside-parliament-house/5766628


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 24, 2014)

Good on the coppers!  The gloves are coming off...


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 24, 2014)

The Victorian police have always been quick on the trigger.

This has led to Victorians adopting a rather unique style of formal attire.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 24, 2014)

Hmm, very stylish, especially for those only having one leg...


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 24, 2014)

Returning to topic, and being serious for a minute, the man shot dead by police seemed to have the PM in his sights. He had been researching Tony Abbott's travel plans, specifically when he would be coming to Melbourne. Fortunately he seems to have been totally inept and quite unable to organise his way out of a paper bag. I hardly think that he was part of any organised group.

All credit to the authorities for keeping him under surveillance but bad luck for the two policemen taken by surprise.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-24/man-shot-dead-researched-tony-abbott-travel-plans/5767226


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 24, 2014)

Some still wonder why the guy going thru the front door of the White House didn't suffer the same fate...


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 24, 2014)

If he had attacked someone he would have.


----------



## QuickSilver (Sep 24, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Some still wonder why the guy going thru the front door of the White House didn't suffer the same fate...



So are we...


----------



## WhatInThe (Sep 24, 2014)

Some kids rebel with a tatoo or body piercing, listen to loud music, come home late, flunk school but now we have to add 'join ISIS' to the list. This looks like a kid screaming for attention. Sad, pathetic and the new norm.

Also saw a side article on Australia's new anti terrorism laws. New laws or excessive use of existing laws in the name of fighting terrorism is a slippery slope in any country.


----------



## Davey Jones (Sep 24, 2014)

*Attempted double beheading in Melbourne

*Sorry but thats is very misleading statement to the people of Melbourne,FLORIDA  (population is *76,609)*The only ones that lose there heads around here are the fishes caught off Melbourne beach.
But I love ya anyways*.*


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 24, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> Some kids rebel with a tatoo or body piercing, listen to loud music, come home late, flunk school but now we have to add 'join ISIS' to the list. This looks like a kid screaming for attention. Sad, pathetic and the new norm.
> 
> Also saw a side article on Australia's new anti terrorism laws. New laws or excessive use of existing laws in the name of fighting terrorism is a slippery slope in any country.



They have already been forced by the Opposition to explicitly forbid torture in the new draft.

As for the 'kid', as far as I know most teenage rebellion does not stretch as far as attempting to murder people. The exception would be criminal gangs, which ISIS undoubtedly is.

It is sad and pathetic but the policeman had no choice other than to shoot him dead. As everyone knows, I'm opposed to guns as a general rule, but not when used with justification. He had been slashed on his arm and his partner was in the process of being savagely stabbed multiple times. Evidence points to this being a premeditated action, not some spontaneous burst of teenage madness. I'm so glad the two policemen survived.


----------



## WhatInThe (Sep 24, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> They have already been forced by the Opposition to explicitly forbid torture in the new draft.
> 
> As for the 'kid', as far as I know most teenage rebellion does not stretch as far as attempting to murder people. The exception would be criminal gangs, which ISIS undoubtedly is.
> 
> It is sad and pathetic but the policeman had no choice other than to shoot him dead. As everyone knows, I'm opposed to guns as a general rule, but not when used with justification. He had been slashed on his arm and his partner was in the process of being savagely stabbed multiple times. Evidence points to this being a premeditated action, not some spontaneous burst of teenage madness. I'm so glad the two policemen survived.



I accept the police had to shoot him in self defense, no problem there. But to see "young" people joining ISIS is the most troubling. Again it's one thing to rebel but it's another to sign up to basically become a serial killer and not a military soldier. You had the rapper from England as well. How can a person who loves music love or want to kill. In the US I get some of the ex Somalians wanting to enlist from the US but a teenager in a free countrywanting to give it all up for what again? But I guess if you are going to a police station for your first kill I guess it's more than a passing fad.


----------



## AprilT (Sep 24, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> *Attempted double beheading in Melbourne
> 
> *Sorry but thats is very misleading statement to the people of Melbourne,FLORIDA  (population is *76,609)*The only ones that lose there heads around here are the fishes caught off Melbourne beach.
> But I love ya anyways*.*



Don't get me started on our lovely state, remember it was here where those loons flying the planes into the twin towers, took their flight training.  Florida really should be allowed to secede, I'll miss the warm temps and the beaches, but, I'm not sure I'd really feel all that bad.  I'm certain we've likely had double beheadings, we've had more than enough bodies found disposed of for in the past weeks.


----------



## chic (Sep 25, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> Some kids rebel with a tatoo or body piercing, listen to loud music, come home late, flunk school but now we have to add 'join ISIS' to the list. This looks like a kid screaming for attention. Sad, pathetic and the new norm.
> 
> Also saw a side article on Australia's new anti terrorism laws. New laws or excessive use of existing laws in the name of fighting terrorism is a slippery slope in any country.



Sorry, but these "kids" as you call them can kill people. Remember Boston, MA. where a Muslim militant teenager and his older brother left pressure cooker bombs at the finish line of the Boston Marathon race a couple of years ago killing several and permanently maiming dozens including young children.

I was a rebel mixed up teenager myself so I do empathize with the difficulties of being that age, but when kids want to join militant organizations and want to behead strangers, it's time to use force first and rehabilitate later.

Public safety is the priority here.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> I accept the police had to shoot him in self defence, no problem there. But to see "young" people joining ISIS is the most troubling. Again it's one thing to rebel but it's another to sign up to basically become a serial killer and not a military soldier. You had the rapper from England as well. How can a person who loves music love or want to kill. In the US I get some of the ex Somalians wanting to enlist from the US but a teenager in a free country wanting to give it all up for what again? But I guess if you are going to a police station for your first kill I guess it's more than a passing fad.



I think these young ones, born in Australia, have no idea how free and well off they actually are. They do not appreciate how much government assistance they have received from the Australian taxpayers because they have nothing to compare it to. Their parents do, and are not very disturbed by the periodic racism that they encounter. They know that it is not institutionalised but the young ones believe the rhetoric that says they are a suppressed minority. They interpret every setback and personal failure as discrimination. 

Everything is black and white to that age group. Young Christians, young atheists can exhibit the same black and white, often hostile thinking but few decide to murder. The root of the problem lies in the Koran itself. As long as Islam insists that every verse in the Koran is directly from God then the verses that command the killing of infidels will not only continue to be used to legitimise murder, they will be used to inspire jihad as holy violence.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2014)

I can't vouch for this site. I don't know who or what is behind it but what I've read on it does seem to be a reasonable and detached assessment of Koranic verses of violence. It does seem to fit the attitude and behaviours we are seeing in the ME and at home.

A sample: 

*The Quran:*
Quran (2:191-193) - _"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah _[disbelief] _is worse than killing... _
_but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful.   And fight them until there is no more Fitnah _[disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] _and worship is for Allah alone.  But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"_  (Translation is from the Noble Quran)  The historical context of this passage is *not* defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were _not_ under attack by their Meccan adversaries.  In fact, the verses urge _offensive_ warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they  later did).  The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse).  The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation.  Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until _"religion is for Allah"_ - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - _"Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."_

Quran (2:216) - _"*Fighting is prescribed for you*, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."_  Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.  From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into  raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - _"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."_

Quran (3:151) - _"Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  _ This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - _"Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."_  The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter.  These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah.  This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - _"Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"_

Quran (4:89) - _"They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."_

Quran (4:95) - _"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"  _This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes.  It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle.  Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly _not_ referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption.  (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

More here: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm


----------



## Butterfly (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm very glad they shot that terrorist.  Part of what makes these guys so scary is that they don't care if they get killed, many even welcome it -- they think dying in trying to exterminate us "infidels" guarantees them some kind of martyr's special place in the Islamic afterlife.  They aren't put off by resistance and it seems the only way to stop them is to kill them.  

I fear we will be seeing more of this, and I hope it is met with appropriate deadly force.  I can't understand why our own teenagers and young men get caught up in the idea of "glorious" jihad.   What a flippin' stupid way to waste your life.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2014)

But what about those seventy-two virgins waiting for them on the other side?  Wouldn't just a few do on this side if they could be found?


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm ignoring your nonsense Ralphy and taking your question at face value.

All religions over time develop accretions that periodically need to be removed. That's what the Christian Reformation did. It directed people back to the original texts and away from teachings about indulgences and other mis-teachings. There doesn't seem to be any mention of virgins waiting for martyrs in the Koran itself but I couldn't say that they don't appear in the Kaddith. It does talk about admission to Paradise for those who die and a special reward or booty (no, not that kind of booty) for those that survive and a vast reward either way. 

Islam is well overdue for a Reformation IMO. Where is the Islamic version of Martin Luther?


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2014)

Nonsense?  Not to those who can't wait to get to the other side...


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2014)

They'll be sorely disappointed and asking for a refund.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2014)

Hmm, well the problem is that nobody knows for sure.  And I suppose it depends on what age you are when you go, for me it would be an endless supply of Beefeater (love those botanicals)...


----------



## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2014)

[h=2]Each major religion has violence.  Here's some from the Bible

10.  2 Kings 2:23-24[/h]He [Elisha] went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!” When he turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and *mauled forty-two of the boys*. (NRSV)


[h=2]9.   Exodus 32:27-29[/h]Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his *brother and friend and neighbor*.' "The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own *sons and brothers*, and he has blessed you this day."(NIV)


[h=2]8.   2 Chronicles 25:12[/h]The sons of Judah also captured 10,000 alive and brought them to the top of the cliff and threw them down from the top of the cliff, so that they were all *dashed to pieces*.(NASB)


[h=2]7.   Judges 12:5-6[/h]Then the Gileadites took the fords of the Jordan against the Ephraimites. Whenever one of the fugitives of Ephraim said, “Let me go over,” the men of Gilead would say to him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” When he said, “No” they said to him, “Then say Shibboleth” and he said, “Sibboleth,” for he could not pronounce it right. Then they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. *Forty-two thousand of the Ephraimites* fell at that time. (NRSV) 


[h=2]6.   1 Kings 20:28-30[/h]Then a man of God came and spoke to the king of Israel, and said, “Thus says the LORD: 'Because the Syrians have said, “The LORD is God of the hills, *but He is not God of the valleys*,” therefore I will deliver all this great multitude into your hand, and you shall know that I am the LORD.’” And they encamped opposite each other for seven days.
So it was that on the seventh day the battle was joined; and the children of Israel killed *one hundred thousand* foot soldiers of the Syrians in one day. But the rest fled to Aphek, into the city; then a wall fell on *twenty-seven thousand* of the men who were left. (NKJV)


[h=2]5.   Joshua 8:24-26[/h]When the Israelite army finished chasing and killing all the men of Ai in the open fields, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai, including men and *women*, was wiped out that day—12,000 in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until *everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed*. (NLT)


[h=2]4.   Deuteronomy 2:32-34[/h]Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, unto battle at Jahaz. And Jehovah our God delivered him up before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed every inhabited city, with the *women and the little ones*; we left none remaining. (ASV)


[h=2]3.   Deuteronomy 3:3-6[/h]So the LORD our God delivered Og also, king of Bashan, with all his people into our hand, and we smote them until no survivor was left. We captured all his cities at that time; there was not a city which we did not take from them: sixty cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. All these were cities fortified with high walls, gates and bars, besides a great many unwalled towns. We utterly destroyed them, as we did to Sihon king of Heshbon, *utterly destroying the men, women and children of every city*. (NASB)


[h=2]2.   1 Samuel 15:3,8[/h]Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death *men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys*.' " … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he *totally destroyed with the sword*.(NIV)


[h=2]1.   Hosea 13:16[/h]Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their *pregnant women ripped open*. (NRSV)

http://www.christianitydisproved.com/bible/violent-bible-verses.html


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm not arguing that there is a good deal of violence in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures but there one important difference between these verses and the Koranic texts of violence. They are set in an historical context which means that they do not have the power to command modern day followers to do the same.

For example the Samuel 15 passage when taken in context is a lot different in meaning to the two verses quoted above



> [h=3]The Lord Rejects Saul as King[/h]15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. [SUP]2 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[SUP][a][/SUP] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
> [SUP]4 [/SUP]So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim—two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand from Judah. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Saul went to the city of Amalek and set an ambush in the ravine. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then he said to the Kenites, “Go away, leave the Amalekites so that I do not destroy you along with them; for you showed kindness to all the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt.” So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites.
> [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves[SUP][b][/SUP] and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.
> [SUP]10 [/SUP]Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: [SUP]11 [/SUP]“I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night.
> ...



Whether accurate or not, it is an account of Hebrew history, not an instruction to present day Jews or Christians. Looking around on the site I linked to previously these is an essay on this subject but I'm not sure about the objectivity of the writing. It does make the same point that I have made here. I don't know enough about the Koran myself, but from what I have read in English translation, there are no stories like the ones we read in the Old and New Testaments, just a lot of instructions and statements similar to Leviticus and Proverbs. They have very little context as far as I can tell.


----------



## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm wondering though.. Just like most Christians do NOT take the violent parts of the Bible literally.. Do most Muslims adhere to the violence in the Koran?  We hear that only the very radical extremists do.. but I have to admit.. there sure are a lot of extremists.     I know we have the West Burrow Baptist Church and some others, but it DOES seem more widespread in Islam.


----------



## AprilT (Sep 25, 2014)

I think it only seems more widespread because those are the only ones we are familiar with in our dealings from the media or in any general contact.  The images and news stories we most see and hear about of people from other areas of the globe are the ones that tend to leave an imprint on the minds of many individuals unless we expand our view of the world at large and really get to know other cultures in depth.  This applies to myself as well.  It's one of the reasons I love reading books authored by people from cultures not of my own, it broadens my understanding.  Even in the US, the Christians often cry foul that so many associate certain acts and thoughts with their religion.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I'm wondering though.. Just like most Christians do NOT take the violent parts of the Bible literally.. Do most Muslims adhere to the violence in the Koran?  We hear that only the very radical extremists do.. but I have to admit.. there sure are a lot of extremists.     I know we have the West Burrow Baptist Church and some others, but it DOES seem more widespread in Islam.



Christian fundamentalists do believe that every word found in the Bible is the "inerrant, infallible word of God" but because these same people pore over the text fairly comprehensively, they read the violent parts in context. Most of their energy is taken up with waging war on the evolutionists but not in the lethal sense. However, there have been bombings of abortion clinics leading to death. Saner Christians know that the teachings of Jesus do not support this violence. 

Believe it or not, most people in this world are not inclined to murder in the name of God but within every religious grouping fanatics do arise. Even Buddhists in Burma have been persecuting and killing their muslim minority. Fanatics arm themselves with holy writ, usually carefully selected out of context, to justify their madness. If they don't use scripture they will adopt the writings of Hitler or Marx. 

Some texts lend themselves more easily to this process. IMO, the Koranic verses are very exploitable but that is not the only problem with Islam. There is the very meaning of the word - 





> In the religious sense, _*Islam means*_ submission to the will of God and obedience to His law. Everything and every phenomenon in the world other than man is administered totally by God-made laws, ie. they are obedient to God and submissive to his laws, they are in the State of _*Islam*_.



The fanatics think that they must obey, without question, what some deranged, but charismatic, iman says that God wants them to do. Especially the very young and impressionable men. It would be better if they listened more to the scholars, but impulsive, testosterone fuelled young men seldom do this. The ones we are having trouble with don't even listen to their parents.

Muslims also believe that Paradise must be earned by deeds. Christians are taught*** that this is impossible and that they must rely on the grace of God. This also produces different mind sets.

***At least this has been true ever since The Reformation. Before that medieval Christians also sought to earn Heaven, hence the Crusades, the building of mighty cathedrals, the giving of a child to the church to be a priest, nun or monk etc.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 26, 2014)

Speaking of the scholars of Islam, this is what they say as they condemn ISIL



> 1. It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related to that matter. In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites for fatwas, and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith.
> 2. It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language.
> 3. It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences.
> 4. It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know.
> ...


----------



## oakapple (Sep 26, 2014)

All excellent posts from you Dame Warrigal, I was very interested to read them. You are right, all fanatics can back up their actions with [selective] bits of text, and this has been done throughout history.Moderate Muslims will not agree with Isil [it seems to change names all the time? isis, IS, Isil?]A lot of Muslim people are speaking out against it here, but others are afraid to or  won't, don't know which.Amongst the young, Asian men, there is a lot of hate towards white people in the West, even though they have grown up here.Their grandparents and parents, were grateful for a better life here, but the young generation can't feel that [because they were born here] and only feel resentment.Life is no harder for them of course, than any white people here, but the resentment is directed at us.


----------



## QuickSilver (Sep 26, 2014)

oakapple said:


> All excellent posts from you Dame Warrigal, I was very interested to read them. You are right, all fanatics can back up their actions with [selective] bits of text, and this has been done throughout history.Moderate Muslims will not agree with Isil [it seems to change names all the time? isis, IS, Isil?]A lot of Muslim people are speaking out against it here, but others are afraid to or  won't, don't know which.Amongst the young, Asian men, there is a lot of hate towards white people in the West, even though they have grown up here.Their grandparents and parents, were grateful for a better life here, but the young generation can't feel that [because they were born here] and only feel resentment.Life is no harder for them of course, than any white people here, but the resentment is directed at us.



But that happens all the time..  People tend to take the actions or words of a few and paint an entire country or population in this light.. I've run into it over and over having particpated in several International forums.  The worse being where I was one of only a couple of Americans participating...   People just LOVE to resent others.. and are quick to blame all their problems on anything but them.  We have an enormous "Blame Obama" sect here.. it's nonsense of course,  and again based on bits and pieces and half truths.. or heck even NO truth at all..  But it's real to them and continues no matter how many facts are pointed out.  So goes with human nature.


----------



## oakapple (Sep 26, 2014)

What have people got against Obama? When he was voted in, everyone seem to love him.He had a very difficult job with the economy, the job of President was a bit of a poisoned chalice for him, an uphill struggle, just like getting the economy working here has been.Nobody likes cuts of course, but they were needed.What do you all think of the way he has handled things?


----------



## QuickSilver (Sep 26, 2014)

oakapple said:


> What have people got against Obama? When he was voted in, everyone seem to love him.He had a very difficult job with the economy, the job of President was a bit of a poisoned chalice for him, an uphill struggle, just like getting the economy working here has been.Nobody likes cuts of course, but they were needed.What do you all think of the way he has handled things?



I think the entire world should be happy Obama if the US President.  If McCain had won in 2008.. we'd for sure be in 3 or 4 wars.  Romney the same.  I am so glad that Obama weighs things over and acts slowly.  I am very pleased with him.  Although I do see his faults.. and the areas I would have like to see him react differently.   However,  in response to your question  "what have people got againt Obama"   Two things really...  He's a Democrat.. and he's Black.   We have a horrible race problem in this country and more and more it's coming to light.. I think having a Black President has brought the racists out of hiding.. and showing their true colors.  Before it was kept pretty much on the down low.  Now I know people will bend over backwards to deny it.. and make all kinds of excuses. but NO US president has been as maligned and disrespected as this one.  Not even Bush.  People can say what they want.. but it's a racial thing. Everyone knows it..  This man handles it all with calmness and dignity.  I think he is one of the best Presidents we have ever had.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 26, 2014)

QuickSilver, my favourite Prime Minister of late drew the misogynists out of the woodwork and they eventually brought her down. 
A good few of them were from within her own ranks. 

I thought she was one of the best PMs we've had for a long time especially given the very rough row she had to hoe.

As a foreigner, I see your president as a man who weighs the odds carefully before placing his bet. I like that as long as he doesn't sit on his hands past the optimum time to act. It's a very tough job and it takes its toll on the one who has to bear the responsibility.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Sep 26, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> However,  in response to your question  "what have people got againt Obama"   Two things really...  He's a Democrat.. and he's Black.   We have a horrible race problem in this country and more and more it's coming to light.. I think having a Black President has brought the racists out of hiding.. and showing their true colors.  Before it was kept pretty much on the down low.



Well said, and I agree.  Let me add that I'm not a Democrat or black.


----------



## Butterfly (Sep 26, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> But what about those seventy-two virgins waiting for them on the other side?  Wouldn't just a few do on this side if they could be found?



Virginity is overrated.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 29, 2014)

Another series of counterterrorism raids have taken place this morning in houses over 5 suburbs of Melbourne (that's Melb. Victoria, Aust). Federal and state police were involved and one man arrested. The AFP said the operation is not in response to a threat to public safety, nor is it related to last week's shooting of terror suspect Numan Haider at Endeavour Hills. 

It would appear that our intelligence gathering is being acted upon. More passports have been confiscated this week to prevent men going overseas.

Meanwhile, an Afghan Australian man who was visiting relatives in Afghanistan and was on his way home again was hauled off a bus by the Taliban, beaten, tortured and shot to death because he was Australian. It's not only the military who pay the price for waging war on terrorism.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/son-...an-denied-refugee-status-20140929-10nrtp.html


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 29, 2014)

The Victorian police have just announced that today's raids were about sending funds overseas to support ISIL in Syria. The tip off came from the FBI because the funds are going to an American citizen.

The raids were done with a lesser show of force because it was not considered to be a dangerous scenario. They also took place early in the morning but in daylight in response to feedback from earlier raids.


----------



## Ina (Sep 29, 2014)

What's the old sayings, " Keep your eye on the money", and " Follow the money".
Look like someone was doing just that. :dunno:


----------

