# Pain Medicine Problem



## fuzzybuddy

I'm a 70 year old guy. I have a severe spinal problem. I have a 20+ year history of surgery, MRIs, and every scan you can think of. The pain is debilitating. I've been on narcotics because of the pain. For years, I've been on the exact same dosage from the same doctor. Yet, I keep having problems getting my RXs filled. They just happen to be out of my meds. The problem is that I cannot function without those meds. I understand there's an narcotic addiction problem, but I don't think some pharmacist, whom I've never met, nor has met me, should be person to decide if I'm an addict. And if you do go to another pharmacy, you're "shopping", so you must be in a drug cartel. Are any others bother with obtaining legitimate narcotic prescriptions?


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## fureverywhere

Yes absolutely, my hubby had sciatica and major pain...landed him in the hospital a few nights with other issues. They prescribed pain patches. Medicaid refused to cover them. I guess some extra strength Tylenol should be enough...fortunate that he had an alternative means of getting them. Right...now they're legalizing weed but we have to go black market for meds Medicare and Medicaid won't cover...how screwed up is that?


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## jujube

Yeah, I have a prescription for generic Valium, which I use for occasional insomnia.  It's the lowest dose there is.  I used about 40 pills in a 14-month period....40.  When I got a renewal of the prescription from my doctor, my insurance company said I needed to be evaluated for "drug dependence".   40 2-mg Valiums in a 14-month period and now I'm a drug addict?  I just went ahead and filled the prescription without using my insurance and it turned out it's cheaper not to use the insurance AND the pharmacist doesn't give a damn whether I'm an addict or not.  Win-win!


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## Butterfly

fuzzybuddy said:


> I'm a 70 year old guy. I have a severe spinal problem. I have a 20+ year history of surgery, MRIs, and every scan you can think of. The pain is debilitating. I've been on narcotics because of the pain. For years, I've been on the exact same dosage from the same doctor. Yet, I keep having problems getting my RXs filled. They just happen to be out of my meds. The problem is that I cannot function without those meds. I understand there's an narcotic addiction problem, but I don't think some pharmacist, whom I've never met, nor has met me, should be person to decide if I'm an addict. And if you do go to another pharmacy, you're "shopping", so you must be in a drug cartel. Are any others bother with obtaining legitimate narcotic prescriptions?



Is the problem you are having at Walgreens?  I had that problem at Walgreens after my hip surgeries when I had a small complication.  I went over to CVS, explained the problem, and got the scrip filled without a problem.  Tell them to please call your doctor if there's a problem.   Had the same problem with Walgreens trying to fill my niece's pain meds -- same solution.

I think Walgreens main office limits the number of class II and III meds it will allow a certain pharmacy to sell.  Stupid.

Don't get me started on pharmacists and clerks making decisions about pain control, or about the FDA trying to stop narcotic addiction by limiting drugs available on a valid doctor's prescription to people who are in REAL pain -- it makes me so mad I could spit cotton!

Just going to another pharmacy won't show up as "shopping" as long as you aren't filling the same scrip at two different places, or filling multiple scrips.  My doc showed me what comes up on his computer and it just shows what is actually filled.

If you continue to have problems, talk to your doctor and tell him about the problem and ask his help in solving it.  It is unconscionable to make people with real pain not to be able to fill legitimate prescriptions.

ALSO, many of those pain meds, like percocet, roxicet, oxy, etc. are really very inexpensive, even without insurance.

I'll be interested to know how this works out for you.


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## QuickSilver

yeah... My hubby has spinal pain too due to arthritis and he functions better on Ultram..   Which is Tramadol and a schedule IV class narcotic..  He has trouble getting docs to give him refills too..  It's insulting to be thought of as an addict or someone abusing drugs...  When you take it for legitimate pain.


*Controlled drug substances* *Schedule I drugs* High abuse potential, no accepted medical use in US–Acetorphine, acetyl methadol, allyprodine, α—acetylmethadol, bufotenine, dextromoramide, diethyltryptamine, dimethyltryptamine–DMT, etorphine, heroin, ibogaine, ketobemidone, LSD–N,N-diethyl-D-lysergamide or lysergic acid diethylamide, marijuana, mescaline, PCP–phencyclidine, peyote, phenadoxone, phenampromide, racomoramide, tetrahydrocannibol 
*Schedule II* High abuse potential, potentially leading to severe psychologic or physical dependence; schedule II agents have acceptable medical uses, eg narcotics–alphaprodine, anileridine, cocaine, codeine, diphenoxylate, diprenorphine, etorphine HCl, ethymorphine, hydrocordone, hydromorphone, levorphanol, meperidine, methadone, morphine, oxymorphone, poppy straw concentrates, powdered opium, raw opium, thebaine and non-narcotics–amphetamine, amobarbital, methaqualone, methamphetamine, methaqualone, pentobarbital, percodan, phencyclidine, phenmetrazine, secobarbital 
*Schedule III* High abuse potential, moderate to low physical dependence, and high psychologic dependence potential, with acceptable medical uses, which may be narcotic–eg nalorphine, paregoric, or nonnarcotic–eg aprobarbital, benzphentamine, butabarbital, chlorphentermine, chlortermine, glutethimide, mazindol, methyprylon, phendimetrazine, probarbital, talbutal, thiamylal, thiopental, vinbarbital 
*Schedule IV* Minimal abuse potential, limited physical or psychological dependence potential, nonnarcotic, eg barbital, chloral hydrate, chlordiazepoxide, clonazepam, chlorazepate, dextropropoxyphene, diazepam, diethylpropion, ethchlorvynol, ethinamate, fenfluramine, lorazepam, mebutamate, methobarbital, meprobamate, methohexital, oxazepam, paraldehyde, phenobarbital, phentermine, prazepam 
*Schedule V* Very low abuse/dependence potential–eg brown mixture–opium, some codeine preparations, diphenozylate preparations–Lomotil, ethylmorphine-Cidicol, opium–Donnagel-PG, terpin hydrate, or non-narcotic, eg loperamide


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## oldman

For years, the use and purchase of pain medications have been under the microscope in many states. For example, in Florida, the pharmacies keep a data base that contains everyone's name that receives opioid pain medication. This prevents the illegal distribution of narcotics. If I was to go to my doctor and get a 30-day supply of Percocet, Oxycodone, Vicodin or Hydrocodone and ran out early and went to a different doctor and got another prescription for the same, it would not be filled. Only up until maybe 7-8 years ago, Florida also had a problem with pill mills. Me, not being a doctor, would receive large quantities of opioids and then have a doctor on my payroll to write the scripts. This all came to an end when Florida started to use the data base. Many so-called distributors also went to jail.  

Also, if you are a user of opioids, you probably have noticed that you have to take more to get the same effect. This is a common complaint with many users. What pain med are you taking? Doctors have an inherent obligation to protect patients against themselves. Many opioid medications also contain Acetaminophen, the same ingredient in Tylenol. The recommend dose of this medication is for no more than 4 grams per day. Acetaminophen is known to cause liver problems. So, if you are using Hydrocodone, for example and the dose is 5/350, you would be permitted to take no more than 11 pills per day. If you are taking 10/500, you would be permitted to take 8 pills per day. 

The only way around your problem is to ask the doctor to issue you a higher number of pills, which he is probably going to hesitate doing. Keep in mind, if you are using an Acetaminophen product, you will be limited to 4 grams per day. Pill companies use Acetaminophen with opioid medication because it gives the opioid being used an extra kick by getting it into the blood stream quicker. If you are using an opioid medication and have been using it for years, your body is more than likely addicted to it. This does not make you an addict or a junkie. It just means that you do have a substance abuse problem through over-use. And if you are using opioids, you are probably also experiencing issues with going to the bathroom. This is another issue by itself. New drugs have come out recently to help opioid users with this problem. Two drugs come to mind; Linzess and Movantik, but like most drugs, these pills also have some serious side effects. PLEASE talk to your doctor before diving in and taking either of these two drugs. The correct term for this problem is "OIC", which stands for "Opioid Induced Constipation."  

Up until almost two years ago, I was a drug counselor certified through the state after having received my certification from Penn State. I have counseled many people of all ages that became addicted to their pain medication. I understand what you are going through. I do have some ideas that may be able to help you, but I would prefer to do it via private messaging. I wish you the best of luck. I would be interested in knowing what medication and dose you are using.


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## Mrs. Robinson

This was on the front page of our local paper this morning.....http://www.record-bee.com/general-n...ers-with-opioid-task-force?source=most_viewed


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## tnthomas

Policy for pain management meds is a mess, and unfair.   A lot of people turn to "street" drugs because they are cheaper and easier to get.   :shrug:


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## Butterfly

I think it is horrific and inhumane to make it so difficult for people who really NEED pain meds to get them.  I do not think the FDA should get between a patient and doctor regarding whether the patient needs a certain level of pain medication over whatever period of time.  Makes me mad as hell!


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## oldman

Mrs. Robinson said:


> This was on the front page of our local paper this morning.....http://www.record-bee.com/general-n...ers-with-opioid-task-force?source=most_viewed



That is a great article and I appreciate your posting it. I still have some friends who are Counselors and I will e-mail this to them. It's what I have been preaching here on this board many times. People begin taking pain medications, (and I'm talking about opiates), to relieve their pain. The pills do work and gives the user at least some quality of life. However, they were not meant to be used long term, which some doctors do repetitively by handing Rx's out to patients on a monthly basis. It only takes a few months of continuous use for a person's body to become addicted to the morphine, codeine, etc in these substances. 

The main problem with these pills is that the longer a person takes them, the more they need to achieve the same effect because the body becomes immune to the ingredients in the pills. I have spoken with hundreds of people that have become addicted to pills and they were started by a doctor because of complaining of back aches or had surgery. I feel bad for these people when they run out of their prescription and cannot get more before their next doctor visit and have to go out onto the street to get their 'fix'. There is a lot of doctor and hospital shopping going on. Dilaudid in the E Room at the hospitals is handed out like suckers at the bank. After all, they want to control pain. I could go on and on, but most people just don't listen because "It won't happen to me." Famous last words.


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## oldman

QuickSilver said:


> yeah... My hubby has spinal pain too due to arthritis and he functions better on Ultram..   Which is Tramadol and a schedule IV class narcotic..  He has trouble getting docs to give him refills too..  It's insulting to be thought of as an addict or someone abusing drugs...  When you take it for legitimate pain.
> 
> 
> *Controlled drug substances* *Schedule I drugs* High abuse potential, no accepted medical use in US–Acetorphine, acetyl methadol, allyprodine, α—acetylmethadol, bufotenine, dextromoramide, diethyltryptamine, dimethyltryptamine–DMT, etorphine, heroin, ibogaine, ketobemidone, LSD–N,N-diethyl-D-lysergamide or lysergic acid diethylamide, marijuana, mescaline, PCP–phencyclidine, peyote, phenadoxone, phenampromide, racomoramide, tetrahydrocannibol
> *Schedule II* High abuse potential, potentially leading to severe psychologic or physical dependence; schedule II agents have acceptable medical uses, eg narcotics–alphaprodine, anileridine, cocaine, codeine, diphenoxylate, diprenorphine, etorphine HCl, ethymorphine, hydrocordone, hydromorphone, levorphanol, meperidine, methadone, morphine, oxymorphone, poppy straw concentrates, powdered opium, raw opium, thebaine and non-narcotics–amphetamine, amobarbital, methaqualone, methamphetamine, methaqualone, pentobarbital, percodan, phencyclidine, phenmetrazine, secobarbital
> *Schedule III* High abuse potential, moderate to low physical dependence, and high psychologic dependence potential, with acceptable medical uses, which may be narcotic–eg nalorphine, paregoric, or nonnarcotic–eg aprobarbital, benzphentamine, butabarbital, chlorphentermine, chlortermine, glutethimide, mazindol, methyprylon, phendimetrazine, probarbital, talbutal, thiamylal, thiopental, vinbarbital
> *Schedule IV* Minimal abuse potential, limited physical or psychological dependence potential, nonnarcotic, eg barbital, chloral hydrate, chlordiazepoxide, clonazepam, chlorazepate, dextropropoxyphene, diazepam, diethylpropion, ethchlorvynol, ethinamate, fenfluramine, lorazepam, mebutamate, methobarbital, meprobamate, methohexital, oxazepam, paraldehyde, phenobarbital, phentermine, prazepam
> *Schedule V* Very low abuse/dependence potential–eg brown mixture–opium, some codeine preparations, diphenozylate preparations–Lomotil, ethylmorphine-Cidicol, opium–Donnagel-PG, terpin hydrate, or non-narcotic, eg loperamide




Even though Heroin is probably still the number one over abused drug, I believe the schedule II drugs to be more used and has more addicts. A deadly combination would be taking Benzodiazepines and Opiates (and maybe some alcohol to boot).


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## imp

jujube said:


> Yeah, I have a prescription for generic Valium, which I use for occasional insomnia.  It's the lowest dose there is.  I used about 40 pills in a 14-month period....40.  When I got a renewal of the prescription from my doctor, my insurance company said I needed to be evaluated for "drug dependence".   40 2-mg Valiums in a 14-month period and now I'm a drug addict?  I just went ahead and filled the prescription without using my insurance and it turned out it's cheaper not to use the insurance AND the pharmacist doesn't give a damn whether I'm an addict or not.  Win-win!



Just try to do it with any "precursor" material to make meth: Pseudoephedrine, the old standby decongestant, is meted out by leaving the pharmacy an arm and leg behind when you get 20 tablets OTC. I find it is the only one which really works for me, breathing easier at night.   imp


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## Butterfly

oldman said:


> That is a great article and I appreciate your posting it. I still have some friends who are Counselors and I will e-mail this to them. It's what I have been preaching here on this board many times. People begin taking pain medications, (and I'm talking about opiates), to relieve their pain. The pills do work and gives the user at least some quality of life. However, they were not meant to be used long term, which some doctors do repetitively by handing Rx's out to patients on a monthly basis. It only takes a few months of continuous use for a person's body to become addicted to the morphine, codeine, etc in these substances.
> 
> The main problem with these pills is that the longer a person takes them, the more they need to achieve the same effect because the body becomes immune to the ingredients in the pills. I have spoken with hundreds of people that have become addicted to pills and they were started by a doctor because of complaining of back aches or had surgery. I feel bad for these people when they run out of their prescription and cannot get more before their next doctor visit and have to go out onto the street to get their 'fix'. There is a lot of doctor and hospital shopping going on. Dilaudid in the E Room at the hospitals is handed out like suckers at the bank. After all, they want to control pain. I could go on and on, but most people just don't listen because "It won't happen to me." Famous last words.



In the case of an older person with intractable pain that cannot be fixed (or is too dangerous to fix surgically), can you explain to me what is so awful about that person becoming "addicted," if the person is on continuing doctor's care??   Is dooming the person to live in terrible pain a better alternative than the person becoming "addicted"?  I think not.


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## oldman

Butterfly said:


> In the case of an older person with intractable pain that cannot be fixed (or is too dangerous to fix surgically), can you explain to me what is so awful about that person becoming "addicted," if the person is on continuing doctor's care??   Is dooming the person to live in terrible pain a better alternative than the person becoming "addicted"?  I think not.



No argument here, but unfortunately, everyone is lumped together into one class, regardless, if a person has regular insurance, self-pay, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. Most, if not all, states that have a data base of controlled substances only allow 'X' number of pills per 30 days. When a person runs out there is nowhere else to turn and this is why many end up in the ER or on the street looking for a supplier. It has really turned into a nightmare thanks mostly to the users that buy the drug for recreational and social use, not to mention the owners of the former pill mills.


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## Linda W.

It's such a common problem...when you're older and have moderate to severe pain from arthritis and bad back, the pain can sometimes get way too bad...I should know. My primary doctor won't order any pain meds at all, other than Meloxicam for me (he's nervous about the feds). In other words, I am supposed to take OTC meds or Meloxicam. My Gastro doc told me after I had intestinal problems in the past to avoid NSAIDS whenever possible, and don't take them daily ever. Quite a predicament...Meloxicam is an NSAID, so are the OTC pain stuff other than Tylenol (which you are not supposed to use often...can be bad for you if used often. My DH does get a mild controlled pain reliever from his VA doctor...he doesn't use it often at all, so one bottle lasts for about 4 to 6 months. I'm hearing other stories about the VA, however...about some patients with very severe pain being just cut off entirely on controlled pain meds. The rumors that some vets are turning to pushers are very disturbing. With that scenario, the temptation to go to the cheaper heroin would be really a bad outcome for them.


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## GreenSky

This is what happens when the government knows better than you, your pharmacist, or your doctor.  Pharmacists and doctors are afraid to deal with pain medications,  not because they don't believe in helping people, but because they could be in serious trouble for over prescribing.

No drug should be off limits.  

Rick


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## tnthomas

GreenSky said:


> This is what happens when the government knows better than you, your pharmacist, or your doctor.  Pharmacists and doctors are afraid to deal with pain medications,  not because they don't believe in helping people, but because they could be in serious trouble for over prescribing.
> 
> No drug should be off limits.
> 
> Rick



I believe this as well.  

As a result, some people end up seeking street drugs for their relief...precisely 180 degrees out from what the gov't is trying to acomplish.   :shrug:


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## GreenSky

tnthomas said:


> I believe this as well.
> 
> As a result, some people end up seeking street drugs for their relief...precisely 180 degrees out from what the gov't is trying to acomplish.   :shrug:



What they are trying to accomplish is to control our lives.  They have been doing a great job at that.

Rick


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## BlondieBoomer

GreenSky said:


> This is what happens when the government knows better than you, your pharmacist, or your doctor.  Pharmacists and doctors are afraid to deal with pain medications,  not because they don't believe in helping people, but because they could be in serious trouble for over prescribing.
> 
> No drug should be off limits.
> 
> Rick



I agree. I would be curious to know how this issue is handled in other countries.


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## Carla

GreenSky said:


> What they are trying to accomplish is to control our lives.  They have been doing a great job at that.
> 
> Rick



It seems their goal is to reduce the amount of prescriptions being written, and they are succeeding. It gives the appearance of accomplishment, no matter how many people will have to suffer with pain unnecessarily. While there is some truth that doctors have been overprescribing in some instances, underprescribing doesn't appear to be a practical solution. But, it gives the impression the government is doing something, and they are--getting into our business!


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## Wilberforce

Just for interest I was amused when last in the UK to find that aspirin, and the UK equivalent of Tylenol could only be bought over the counter in bottles of 16, or  if the pharmacist was  OK with  you, at their discretion  you were allowed to buy two. I laughed as I remember buying bottles of 5oo from Costco here.


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## BlondieBoomer

Carla said:


> It seems their goal is to reduce the amount of prescriptions being written, and they are succeeding. It gives the appearance of accomplishment, no matter how many people will have to suffer with pain unnecessarily. While there is some truth that doctors have been overprescribing in some instances, underprescribing doesn't appear to be a practical solution. But, it gives the impression the government is doing something, and they are--getting into our business!



You know, they supposedly have a goal to reduce antibiotics too, yet they still seem to prescribe those at the drop of a hat. I see that as much more dangerous since it's resulting in "super bugs" that no antibiotic can knock out. Yet people with terminal or very serious pain have to worry about being in pain because doctors are afraid to prescribe the drugs. It doesn't seem right.


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## Wilberforce

I don't have any problems in Canada at all. I was on 125 mg  Fentanyl patches for about two years but my skin started reacting to the adhesive so they switched me to morphine, after another 2 years I didn't like either one and came off the morphine cold turkey on my own.  I do take another med  in tablet form but never have any hassle either getting the prescription of cashing it in My pain level is much  higher since I came off the heavy stuff but  I don't have the spacy feeling I had when I was using them . I have never had an addictive problem so coming off  after  several years   was easy enough, uncomfortable but easy for me.


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## OneEyedDiva

Thank God I don't need them Fuzzybuddy but I feel for you. I think it's a shame that you have to go through this ridiculousness. I had an aunt who was in constant pain and I felt so bad for her, especially knowing there was nothing I could do to help her.  I wonder if there's a card you can carry that says you are allowed to purchase these drugs..don't they do that with people who can get medical marijuana?  Just a thought. I see someone else mentioned CVS. Hopefully the replies here will be helpful to you.


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## dog lover

I try to stay with Excedrin migraine during waking hours - it works fairly well to reduce pain in my rather deteriorated joints. (Undiagnosed Lyme disease ravaged them some 15 years ago). At night I use Tramadol. I can't use opiates during the day, they put me right to sleep. Weed (legal here) works quite well - not actually making the pain in the joints stop, but by making it possible to simply ignore the pain by concentrating on other things. It can make pain irrelevant.

A few times a year I take a short course of prednisone, which usually fixes the joint pain right up for a couple of weeks. Then it goes downhill again...

I ran into the prescription issue though with my vet of all things - who didn't want to prescribe pain pills to my Great Dane as they are people strength and I suppose he worried I would take or sell them. The poor dog only needed them for a few days after her operation. Made me angry.


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## oldman

I know people that have been on opiate medication for 20+ years. Some take it "PRN" while others take it on a scheduled basis. Either way, if someone is suffering terrible pain, I see no reason why they should not be permitted to purchase it at will. Most of the Hydrocodone (Vicodin) or Oxycodone (Percocet) is prescribed with Acetaminophen. And like I have also written, Acetaminophen is another worry all of its own. Any doctor or other medical professional will you not to take more than 4 grams per day of this chemical because it is known to cause issues with a person's liver. When a person receives a script for Hydrocodone (Vicodin), it may read 10/500. This would mean that each pill contains 10 milligrams of Hydrocodone and 500 milligrams of Acetaminophen. At this rate, the user should take no more than 8 pills per day to stay within the 4 grams recommended dosage of Acetaminophen. 

People with severe back issues and cancer patients can and do take multitudes of opiates just to have some quality of life. I think going to a pain management doctor is a good idea, if a person needs to be on any opiate for extended periods of time. Pain Management physicians can and do switch or alternate opiates with non opiate pain pills. A lot of over-the-counter meds do not have enough strength to kill the pain for those that have very severe pain, like an 8 or above. I have taken Toradol as a pain reliever even though it is a NSAID. Tramadol helps better, but I prefer to avoid narcotics, if at all possible.


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## mrstime

I just have to tolerate my back pain, percoset doesn't help, and I can't take more than 2 a day because of the severe constipation. So I spend way too much time sitting as the pain is worst after a couple of minutes standing. Our BC government is making it very hard for most people to get any pain medications. What do they care if we seniors get addicted. Do our last years have to be an agony? Fortunately I am not ready for the alternative but I have a very dear friend that is threatening suicide.


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## oldman

If you are having issues with taking opiates and constipation you have what doctors have named OIC or Opiate Induced Constipation and of course, there is a pill for that also. Movantik is one that I can name off-hand. BTW, you are not alone. Constipation is the number one side effect of taking opiates to reduce pain. I am 6'4" tall and I was a pilot for United for almost 34 years. In the mid 90's, I suffered tremendously with sciatic pain until I had my surgery. After that, I had difficulties taking opiates and going to the bathroom. So, I had to make a choice, which I did. I couldn't fly and take opiates. No one in their right mind would even think about doing that. I used Fentanyl patches until the pain subsided and then some therapy. It took me almost 6 months until I was able to go back to work. I have to admit, the Fentanyl patches worked better for me than did the pills that I took and believe me, I took a lot of pills and different types of opiate pills, as well. 

Because I was off work for so long and was on opiates, I had to go through hell to get my certification back. The FAA does not play any games once a pilot or anyone in the airline business has used opiates (or has been to a substance abuse center, including alcohol).


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## Pookie

fuzzybuddy said:


> I'm a 70 year old guy. I have a severe spinal problem. I have a 20+ year history of surgery, MRIs, and every scan you can think of. The pain is debilitating. I've been on narcotics because of the pain. For years, I've been on the exact same dosage from the same doctor. Yet, I keep having problems getting my RXs filled. They just happen to be out of my meds. The problem is that I cannot function without those meds. I understand there's an narcotic addiction problem, but I don't think some pharmacist, whom I've never met, nor has met me, should be person to decide if I'm an addict. And if you do go to another pharmacy, you're "shopping", so you must be in a drug cartel. Are any others bother with obtaining legitimate narcotic prescriptions?



What is the problem with getting your RXs filled?  I would think to call your doctor.


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## mrstime

oldman said:


> If you are having issues with taking opiates and constipation you have what doctors have named OIC or Opiate Induced Constipation and of course, there is a pill for that also. Movantik is one that I can name off-hand. BTW, you are not alone. Constipation is the number one side effect of taking opiates to reduce pain. I am 6'4" tall and I was a pilot for United for almost 34 years. In the mid 90's, I suffered tremendously with sciatic pain until I had my surgery. After that, I had difficulties taking opiates and going to the bathroom. So, I had to make a choice, which I did. I couldn't fly and take opiates. No one in their right mind would even think about doing that. I used Fentanyl patches until the pain subsided and then some therapy. It took me almost 6 months until I was able to go back to work. I have to admit, the Fentanyl patches worked better for me than did the pills that I took and believe me, I took a lot of pills and different types of opiate pills, as well.


The reason the government is cracking down on all pain meds is because of the Fentanyl deaths here in BC, in fact the Federal government is also getting after doctors about prescribing pain pills. Our 55 year old son asked his new doctor for some assistance with his pain, he asked for Tylenol 3 or percoset, the dr told him "we only give those to dying patients" our son pretended mock shock and said "Oh my god , my parents are dying?".


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## Butterfly

Pookie said:


> What is the problem with getting your RXs filled?  I would think to call your doctor.



We had the same problem when my niece was dying of colon cancer.  Some jerk pharmacist LOVED to give lectures about opiate addiction and then about how a person shouldn't take more than so much and her prescription was inappropriate and refused to fill it a time or two.

I asked our niece's oncologist to call said jerk and straighten her out about intractable terminal pain in cancer patients.  She happily did, and at the same time straightened out said jerk about who was the prescribing physician and what the pharmacist's role was.  The doctor also called the head of the pharmacy and the store manager, and I believe also the regional manager and made the same points.

No more problems at that pharmacy.


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## Pookie

Butterfly said:


> We had the same problem when my niece was dying of colon cancer.  Some jerk pharmacist LOVED to give lectures about opiate addiction and then about how a person shouldn't take more than so much and her prescription was inappropriate and refused to fill it a time or two.
> 
> I asked our niece's oncologist to call said jerk and straighten her out about intractable terminal pain in cancer patients.  She happily did, and at the same time straightened out said jerk about who was the prescribing physician and what the pharmacist's role was.  The doctor also called the head of the pharmacy and the store manager, and I believe also the regional manager and made the same points.
> 
> No more problems at that pharmacy.



Oh mercy, that's awful. I'm so sorry.


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## mrstime

What ever happened to giving Cancer patients morphine as needed? Yes, I  know it speeds their deaths, but when their every moment is in screaming pain they want to die. My father and aunt both died of colon cancer. I watched at a nurse turned my father in his bed he was literally out of it with morphine and he still felt the severe pain, he groaned several times during the movement.  I told his doctor don't let him feel pain, and my father died a few days later! My aunt stayed at home until her death, and she was out of it too, thankfully!


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## Butterfly

Once you are in hospice, you allegedly get what you need to control your pain.  The problems we had with my niece's meds occurred while she was still trying to cope at home and spend time with family.  Her pain was bad throughout her last illness.  She was barely 40 when she died in hospice.


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## rt3

Butterfly said:


> We had the same problem when my niece was dying of colon cancer.  Some jerk pharmacist LOVED to give lectures about opiate addiction and then about how a person shouldn't take more than so much and her prescription was inappropriate and refused to fill it a time or two.
> 
> I asked our niece's oncologist to call said jerk and straighten her out about intractable terminal pain in cancer patients.  She happily did, and at the same time straightened out said jerk about who was the prescribing physician and what the pharmacist's role was.  The doctor also called the head of the pharmacy and the store manager, and I believe also the regional manager and made the same points.
> 
> No more problems at that pharmacy.



With all due respect to your situation  -----   the rest of the story,
from having sit on medical review boards, and unlimited access to West Law

the dispensing pharmacist is the authority since his name his on the dispensing rx. The store manager and regional manager if not pharmacists have no say. 
if the store manager was smart or had many years of experience he would give the customer some free steaks or something and apologize, since the customer accepts this as compensation the story ends
if the store manager or regional is an idiot he will write the pharm. up.
at this time the pharmacist will write a letter to the various state lic. departments telling them he was being reprimanded for following the law, store wanting him to perform illegal acts.
state will call a meritorious meeting. 
if pharmacist found at fault would be reprimanded , (not likely as this implies negligence) most of them are really good at CYA job doesn't pay enough to take risks
if pharmacist found with merit. store is deep kaka. pharmacists lawyer who is probably sitting at the table already has the law suit already drawn up and hands it to the chains representative. 
chain settles there for an undisclosed amt.with the stipulation from the pharm. lawyer that any later action taken by the store/chain will be regarded as revenge etc. 


the doctor will be lucking if they are not included in the suit, if the pharmacist documents the events on say the back of the rx or keep a note book it will be admissible. if the doc. has any duckies out of line #of dosage units, instructions etc. if anything happens to the pat. in the mean time their will be another lay suit besides the pharmacists

see how that government regulation works both ways.


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## rt3

Pain centers are different set up than retail pharmacies. They have patient lists and the prescriber is usually on site makes rounds and a lot have a clinical pharmacist that attends.
diversion is not a problem and the amount given is for shorter time periods.


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## Linda W.

I just wonder if what the government is doing will create more addiction than it will prevent. Only time will tell. As far as not letting terminal patients suffer more pain than they can take, there's no doubt in my mind. The patient should have choices in that, or the family.


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## rt3

as far as drugs in general go, in terms of side effects and adverse reactions on human physiology, opiates are pretty mild. This country was built on laudanum.


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## rt3

from an addiction stand point white refined sugar is far worse. the laws promote a subculture, and black market. should be no worky no drugs


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## NancySue

My husband has the same problem. I understand that there are people who abuse these types of medications; but I don't think pharmacists should pick and choose who they assume to be a drug addict. There are procedures that can be taken to verify a order for a prescription. It is so frustrating having people judge you because you take pain medication. Honestly, I think the doctors should be the ones to judge not the pharmacists.


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## hauntedtexan

For the past 10 years, the VA, unable to relieve my pain surgically, has prescribed to me 4- Vicodin 10's/day. Being so very afraid of addiction, I have never fully exhausted a monthly prescription once in those 10 years. I've refused their increases to OxyContin and worse, adjusting my day to day activities to minimize what causes the grief. I refuse to drive on them because I couldn't live with myself if I did and killed someone. So I wait the 4.5hrs that the dr said would eliminate the driving danger..... such is the life of an abused body....  sucks....


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