# State of the Union Address



## CeeCee (Jan 29, 2014)

Did anyone watch?  

I know you don't get political on here but just asking, no need for any name calling , etc.

I didn't watch...I am burnt out with Politics of any sort after being on a political forum for 8 yrs.

Ive reached the point where I don't care because I feel neither side is totally right...I may become an Independant .

If this topic is flammatory than you can remove it, Matrix.


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## Vivjen (Jan 29, 2014)

I heard the beginning of it......then fell asleep.


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## Judi.D (Jan 29, 2014)

Me too, didn't watch.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 29, 2014)

I didn't watch. He has made such a mess of this country I'd only get madder if I listened to all his BS.


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## Falcon (Jan 29, 2014)

Just TRY to switch channels! It was on almost EVERY channel. 

I watched a little bit of it waiting for his pants to catch on fire, but gave

up. Got sick of watching that silly veep in the background and POTUS

sticking his chin out, like Mussilini (sp).


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## Davey Jones (Jan 29, 2014)

Im still waiting for that  *HOPE & CHANGE *to get started.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 29, 2014)

I watched around a half hour of it, I am an Independent, also not happy with either party...never have been very political, but I don't want either party gaining too much control.


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## Ina (Jan 29, 2014)

I didn't watch BO either. I figure we will hear about it from everyone else. I know that the political will do as they've always done. Whatever they want.


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## drifter (Jan 29, 2014)

I watched the President's speech tonight. He gave a good speech, he nearly always does, but what I saw, I thought, was fluff. The President is obligated to give a State of The Union speech, members of congress and others are obligated to attend. It's all a great performance, but i strongly suspect if the constitution did not require it, it would not happen. I don't know how many members of the Supreme Court attended tonight, but at least one member of the Court is reported to have said these State of the Union affairs are a big pep rally, that's all. I tend to agree.


I also listened to the Republican response, which was, I thought, better than I expected. The lady gave an intelligent response while not saying anything to hurt her party.


I guess my mind was on Pete Seeger, folk singer, philosopher, song writer, and banjo player extraordinary who died today, his mind and banjo silenced forever. I for one will miss him. I liked the man. I was entertained by him over the years, a man forever pulling for the underdog and less fortunate, with a song and his music. May he rest in peace.


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## Vivjen (Jan 29, 2014)

Beautifully put, Drifter


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## That Guy (Jan 29, 2014)




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## Pappy (Jan 29, 2014)

I watched the first five minutes and then went out to watch the grass grow. 
Sorry, but I'm filled to the brim with all politicians and their excess gas.


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## That Guy (Jan 29, 2014)

On the radio last night, dj ran a little contest challenging people to name the number times the gallery broke into wild applause (gag).  Never got the answer but am sure it's nauseating.


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## Falcon (Jan 29, 2014)

That upping and downing took more time than the actual speech. Easier than going to the gym though.


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## Warrigal (Jan 29, 2014)

Well, I have a suggestion. Amend your constitution just a little bit and you can have our current PM. He's a neoconservative, a Rhodes scholar, very trim and athletic, competes in Ironman events and serves as a volunteer firefighter when he's not working on Aboriginal settlements fixing the houses. As for winning, this man is a political street fighter and he has three virginal daughters plus a doting wife and even has a mother, so he's very good to women.

He's available roughly around the same time as your next presidential election and the best part is that he could resign his post over here tomorrow if you wanted him. 

He's very photogenic too.


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## Diwundrin (Jan 29, 2014)

> *Warri wrote*:  Well, I have a suggestion.



Warri, I tried to find that picture of your side's roundly turfed out on his landsliding backside, show pony, preening little p..sorry, much recycled 'leader' picking his nose and eating it in Parliarment in full view of the public and cameras but never mind, perhaps that's better not seen at all.  

If you thought Rudd's mental processes were superior to Abbott's then you are too deluded to rehabilitate.

Now then, sure you still wanna go the 'making political attacks personal' road ????  

 I lurrrrve that game.  







Or just to keep things more current... sorry, but I'm on a roll...  should we compare intellects with your side's current glorious leading light? 
He hasn't actually had an original thought since he was left last man standing to lead Labor, still just reciting the spin of the day. But harking back to the last ad lib statement I can remember him making, it was a doozy.  A real insight into the depths of his resolve and thinking powers.

When asked to comment on a statement from the PM he replied  "I don't know what she said but whatever it was I agree with it."
 
And the Yanks think they have problems? :lofl:


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## Falcon (Jan 29, 2014)

I got tired of seeing so many knuckle dragging, mouth-breathing troglodytes on the left side of the aisle I had to turn off the TV.


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## Anne (Jan 29, 2014)

Well, we watched it, hopefully to hear something different, but all we heard was the usual proclamations of how great things are, and how much more we can do if we just hang in there.   

More fun watching Walter beaming and winking in the background, and Boehners gloomy look of complete doubt and boredom.  Gotta wonder if he takes blood pressure meds.  Same old stuff, unfortunately.


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## Diwundrin (Jan 29, 2014)

It appears a few of us here watched more of that State of the Nation thing than the locals did.  I watched 'cos the way politics is done fascinates me.
The two systems are very different but the politicians are the same.  Ours have been trying that hoopla and spangles bullsh*t type 'personalization' type campaigning but it went over like a lead balloon when it came to election day.  

It seems to me that the US politicians are being faced with a populace more like the one ours has to contend with.  We know what they're up to now.

We're not as gullible as we were.  The internet has allowed a wider range of insights and views to tarnish their shiny little ponds and show them for the frogs they really are.  They seem to be missing that point.

They are still underestimating the intelligence of their electorates and still believe they'll fall for the patriotic buzz phrases that their parents did.
Maybe they should be paying more attention to the content of all that NSA hacking and take note of how the populations awareness is changing?

The big difference between OZ and the US is the apathy factor.  We are every bit as jaded with all sides of politics as the US appears to be.
We know that neither side of Politics alone is the answer, that a balance is needed, and that no Politician is as wonderful or intelligent as they'd have us believe.
While those too disillusioned in the States to be even bothered to vote for any of them can just not vote, in OZ we are compelled to vote or pay a fine for the privilege of ignoring them all.  

That knowledge focuses the attention of both voters and candidates and forces pollies into doing a little more to actually produce results, and not rely  solely on buzz phrases and charisma to qualify them for office.

When Obama said "Lets give America a raise!"  I thought, that's your job mate, to make it an America that can afford to give itself a raise. 

 Like failed politicians here he seemed to be putting the onus of paying for anything back on the few who were still working to pay the way for his grandiose schemes.  It's not just him, it's gone that way here too.  It's all very fine to pump out feel good phrases but without first fixing what's wrong with the system no amount of spin and duct tape will replace some good hard headed policy change to the way things are being done.

Our new government won't ever make the history books in the wonderful section but at least they are making a start on tweaking the fringes of what's gone wrong.  It brings screams from those now addicted to hand outs but there won't be anything left to hand out to those who really do need it if some of the pond scum who are rorting welfare aren't scooped out.  Nor will it be fixed until those hiding billions in foreign tax havens are brought back to paying their way where they make the dough.  Big biz needs to pay it's fair share, and welfare recipients need to really, really, need support to qualify for handouts.  Both ends of the system need fixing.

They're easing the tension on the red tape holding businesses back that were imposed to suit Unions, and letting them prosper a little more easily to employ more people.  We also tend to tax the backside off businesses and individuals here than in the States, so both sides of the coin must be addressed.  A scheme to offer amnesty for the period beyond the last 4 years to  encourage big investors to put their money back into OZ and pay tax on  their profits here is a contentious one but it may just be a smarter  move than it appears on the surface.  Skimming an extra $billion pa out of the super rich is better than getting nothing at all.

I've no idea of your tax scales but when I thought about what Romney said,  how many don't pay tax at all, I went pale. Was he right?

Can't make any comment on how the States runs politics, that's your business and I'm still trying to figure our own out, but wondering about that voting turnout.

Do any of you not vote at all??  Whichever way that goes we get the Governments we deserve.nthego:


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## Sid (Jan 29, 2014)

Diwundrin, about what Romney said. That is true,we have many who do not pay income taxes. 
Some get their income tax refunded and some get "earned" taxes credits and get a check fore MORE than they paid in in the first place.

  They talk about low voter tuern out but some places seem to have more people vote than they have registered.


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## Ozarkgal (Jan 29, 2014)

Yes, Di and the gap is quickly closing..It's amazing to me that those in the know hold his comment up as one of the single most important reasons he didn't get elected.  We seem to be a country that doesn't want to face up to the truth.  Hard to turn things around when so many are on the freebie wagon and want to stay there.


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## silverduke (Jan 29, 2014)

Did the scowling John Boehner seated behind Obama spend the last month in a tanning bed? 
Or is that a bad spray-on tanning job?


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## Diwundrin (Jan 29, 2014)

> They talk about low voter turn out but some places seem to have more people vote than they have registered.



We don't get that problem mentioned often at all.  Too lazy to do it twice, getting us there once or at all had to be made mandatory. 



(But it did work and gives a much more detailed result of what the entire demographics in electorates Nation wide are thinking, and why

.)

A lot here don't like compulsory voting but more because it wrecks their Saturday than out of any philosophical outrage at infringements of rights.

Ramble.... 



Spoiler



I'm coming to the view that the constant banging of 'rights' in the US is being used against, rather than for, it's people.  There are more than a few politicians here who wish to hell they didn't have to try and impress anyone else other than their most ardent registered fans enough to vote for them.  But they do.  

I've tried but haven't yet mastered getting my head around the complex structure of your politics and the intricacies of voting procedures.  I've had it explained by a kind and patient US member on a previous forum, who seems to have gotten lost on the trek here, but while on the surface it makes sense if you have been born with doing things that way it does seem far more complex than it needs to be.  

We don't need 'delegates' and layers of selection and all that jazz.  A candidate is chosen to represent a Party and stands in an electorate against others in other Parties and we go along and vote for whoever we deem the best of a bad lot. 



We don't need bells and whistles and a 4 year run in because we don't have to elect a President to angst over.  
5 weeks is our usual campaigning time.
The Party which gets the most candidates up then runs the joint.  They pick their own leader who then becomes our Prime Minister.  If he turns out to be an idiot then they toss him to the back bench and elect someone else who then becomes Prime Minister.  Eeeaaasyyyy.

Instead of that POTUS worry we have the Monarch as 'Head of State' who stays out of our business and let's us get on with things as we choose but holds figurehead status to be drawn on when things get out of hand.  

 The Monarch has essentially no powers at all except to control the parliarmentary procedures when a deadlock occurs which amounts to issuing an order to have another election. No brainer!  Even that is done through a 3rd Party, the Governor General who is not elected, but appointed by the Prime Minister. So in essence the PM tells the Queen who her representive is whether she likes it or not.  No Royal declarations or decisions to bother us at all.
Good system, you should have kept it. 

   Too late?


Most of our pollies have backgrounds as burned out lawyers or Union bosses looking to further their ambitions to run everybody's life. A couple of millionaires there, even a billionaire, but most just wheeler dealers in a career change.

Obama made much of pointing out those who sprang from humble beginnings to reach the pinnacle (yeah right.) of a political career.
Well now how does that happen exactly?  Excluding those in the population whose humble beginnings were overcome to make them multimillionaires or at least leading lights of their communities, how did those politicians achieve the pinnacle?   'Hard work' was mentioned. Really?  Hard physically, nup.
Hard intellectually?  sort of.  But to achieve the pinnacles of politics takes a vastly different kind of talent than to build a business.

What career politicians have mastered despite their 'humble' beginnings is the ability to shelve conscience, and to figure out how to fang and claw their way over everyone else in their path to power. You don't get to the top standing in the corner being nice in politics.
 You really so proud of that talent Barrack? all those others applauding themselves?   Yeah, I guess leaving the bodies of rivals laying in your wake would be hard work.  Never forget this bloke out-politicked Hilary Clinton!    Now that really does show talent! 




Sorry, not having a go at your politics, (just pointing it out as a scoring point for Warri,)   as similar things went on here.  Some were sooooo impressed that we had a woman PM.  They were so blinded with ecstasy that they didn't give a thought to how she got there.  

Over the bodies of all the many male rivals along the way who she then had the unmitigated gall to make a speech about, denouncing them for mysogony!!!  Here she was, the Red Queen, blaming her victims for messing up the bloodied sword she was trying to wield on the opposition Party the same way she'd lain waste to anyone worthwhile who might rival her in her own Party.  
'Poor Julia'  huh! ....  poor Genghis!!! 



All politicians should be seen as flawed human beings, we shouldn't elect them for their marketing spiel and poisonalities, we only need people competent to make sensible decisions.  They are supposed to be working for us! 
We'd be better off choosing at random a few number cruncher accountants and some Civil Engineers.  We have to have career diplomats but they can be appointed, we can fire them if they stuff up.  All we need elect are a few Politicians to oversee the various authorities.  Most ministers have little more than clue about their portfolios anyway.  They are experts at nothing except politics itself.



 Never believe politicians' CVs.   Hire carefully.


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## Warrigal (Jan 30, 2014)

Diwundrin said:
			
		

> Warri, I tried to find that picture of your side's roundly turfed out on his landsliding backside, show pony, preening little p..sorry, much recycled 'leader' picking his nose and eating it in Parliarment in full view of the public and cameras but never mind, perhaps that's better not seen at all.


Feel free to put forward your own candidate anytime you feel like it. 
KRudd is between engagements at the moment.
And it was ear wax, not snot. 


By the way, did I mention that our PM knows how to swing a punch ?
That should come in handy when dealing with the Congress.


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## Diwundrin (Jan 30, 2014)

So it was, must be getting senile, eating earwax in Parliarment is far more indicative of great intellect.  My mistake.
Abbott was an amateur boxer.  We have Shooters Party reps too do you think they are going to go postal because shooting is their sport ?  Or just chuck roo poo around?  Will Penny ride in on a Harley?  Will the Bobcatter herd in a few steers?
Or is it just Abbott you have a problem with?  Could have been Les Patterson. 




Ignore us, we're just playing 'personality politics'.


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## Warrigal (Jan 30, 2014)

I'm only allowed one nomination for POTUS per election.
It's written in the constitution somewhere in the fine print.

Problem with our PM? Me ? I think he's so good he deserves a promotion.
Will no-one second my nomination ?


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## Diwundrin (Jan 30, 2014)

I would but it depends what other Country you want to promote him to.


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## Warrigal (Jan 30, 2014)

How many options do I have?

Does your favourite Game of Thrones shed light on the possibilities open to him/us?


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## Vivjen (Jan 30, 2014)

Sticking my oar in.....again; the little I know of Australian politics; a change will come soon enough...
my reasoning; I did a tour in SA with an Australian lady at the very end of June; when back-stabbing was last in season.
we got so involved that we ended up in a little 1/2 horse town, reading a paper, in Afrikaans, to find out the latest episode; gripping!


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## Warrigal (Jan 30, 2014)

Aussie politics has never been so entertaining.

It just keeps getting better and better.
Or worse and worse, depending on your perspective.

BTW, backstabbing is always in season.
There are already early signs of a palace coup but the time is not yet ripe.


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## dbeyat45 (Jan 30, 2014)

Falcon said:


> I got tired of seeing so many knuckle dragging, mouth-breathing troglodytes on the left side of the aisle I had to turn off the TV.



Falcon, who sits on the left side?


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## Falcon (Jan 30, 2014)

I should add that a Democrat is a "liberal" as opposed to a "conservative". Different countries have  different meanings.


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## That Guy (Jan 30, 2014)

Falcon said:


> I got tired of seeing so many knuckle dragging, mouth-breathing troglodytes on the left side of the aisle I had to turn off the TV.



As if there are none on the right.


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## Diwundrin (Jan 30, 2014)

Falcon said:


> I should add that a Democrat is a "liberal" as opposed to a "conservative". Different countries have  different meanings.



Confusin' innit?  Our 'right' is called the Liberal Party.   Long story short and simple for those who came in late...  originally there were the Tory, fiercely right rich and toffs Party and Labor for the rest of us.  Then a middle of the road, middle class representing one was formed that wasn't either. It represented employers and small business people, so well right of Labor, but long short of Tory. At the time Liberal was the best description compared to the far right stance of the Tories. 

The Tories vanished into history so our Labor/Dems and Liberals/Reps aren't really as poles apart ideology wise as they appear to be in the US.  
We fight over their hairstyles because in most things their policies are interchangeable. 

 History ramble 



Spoiler



It's always been an irreverent and largely egalitarian society here. With a few loathed snobby exceptions, the highest in the land, the academics,the filthy rich, the famous, were as likely to be, and expected to be, found sharing a beer with the plumber and butcher at a local barbie as at a black tie dinner.  Business dealings etc were separate classes, socialising was not.  

 It's changed gradually over the last few decades, more due to the change in media than in character traits though I think.   I've been at gatherings where looking at us from outside we all appeared to be working class 'bogans' in casual attire and it was impossible to pick the 3 millionaires from those who could barely cover their mortgage. They'd grown up together, or had been mates for many years and the change in circumstances made no difference to that on either side.   We didn't give any credence to wealth or society status, just to character.  Before paparazzi type media there was very little 'class consciousness' here and multis and movie stars were accorded the same degree of familiarity as Joe up the road.

Any pretensions were, and are, cut down to size ruthlessly.  We didn't need the Tories. We'd 'crushed' the aristocracy in our own way and they were just one of us with slightly different political bias or they got very lonely.  
So 'Liberal' is as right wing as we needed to get. Still damned confusing though.


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## Vivjen (Jan 30, 2014)

Ours is slightly different.
our Tories are Consevative and to the right.
originally they were opposed by the Whigs, or liberals, to the left..ish.
then along came Labour, to the left, and the Liberals started fading away, merged re-invented themselves, and.......ended up in a coalition with ...the Conservatives.....at present.
to be continued in 2015....


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## Ina (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks Di, That is the best way put I have heard or read. I believe it was probably taught here, but I did not get past the 5th. grade, and once I got to college they assumed I knew I guess.


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## Vivjen (Jan 30, 2014)

This is why we are here.....to learn.


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## Vivjen (Jan 30, 2014)

I am not sure....I find it very difficult to cope with the Republican far right, tea party etc...and your left isn't as left as our left.....


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## Davey Jones (Jan 30, 2014)

Ive been an independent voter  since Obama was sworn in but loved Bill Clinton.


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## Diwundrin (Jan 30, 2014)

Politics is just a game CeeCee, I can't get that excited about either side's ideologies and don't get why others do. I just enjoy ripping into them as a word exercise.  But I've been on political forums  that were a steaming mess of loonys frothing away as if Politicians were worth having a stroke over.  They all seemed to take the abuse as par for the course, and I suspect enjoyed the fights or they wouldn't have kept coming back.  Don't recall any threats of law suits over it though, those who can't take the heat just drop off the forums.  As I did eventually, frothing isn't my style, I don't care enough about it all, it wasn't abuse that tired me of it, it was the mental abyss of the average poster that scared me most on those forums.  

Politics is* fun to argue* over, it's not important enough to* fight* over.   (I view religion in the same vein, but most don't.)


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## Vivjen (Jan 30, 2014)

How true Di, whoever it is.....and wherever it is, nobody seems to be able to tell the truth, including the Pope!


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## Vivjen (Jan 30, 2014)

The trouble is, it is us that have to live with the consequences of their actions.


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## Vivjen (Jan 30, 2014)

We, I think, are trying to understand everybody's different systems...it saves confusion, because your Liberals are not the same as ours!

I certainly can't be bothered to argue over it! But I bet the US want our NHS! Free at the point of delivery!


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## Diwundrin (Jan 30, 2014)

Catching up on replies I missed between answering CeeCee and finally getting around to posting, I really have to try harder to keep up.

I've been a swinging voter, depending on the circumstances of the time. 'Born' Labor/Democrat then shifted to 'lite right' Liberal/Republican in later life.  I'll swing back again when and if I feel that's the thing to do.  I've been anti Labor lately due more to the fleas who have corrupted it's  purpose and agenda than against it's original ideology.  It no longer represents the people it was formed to represent.  Simple as that.  I'm not pro-Liberal so much as just see them as the better of 2 bad options.  Guess in the US I'd be a reluctant Republican.



I know nada, zero and zot about UK or NZ politics.  Sorry bout that Brits and Fern, never interested me, too much like ours I guess.

Don't think the Tea Party would go over well here.

  We get the occasional odd ball extremist pop up among the Libs but they are just shuffled quietly to a corner and vanish from the Party's pre-selection process next round of elections.

I'm glad we can talk about our different types of Government if only to reassure ourselves that we aren't the only ones afflicted with dubious at best politicians.  It's kind of comforting somehow.


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## Vivjen (Jan 30, 2014)

Of course, until the next elections.....then we will all get bored rigid!


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## Diwundrin (Jan 30, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> We, I think, are trying to understand everybody's different systems...it saves confusion, because your Liberals are not the same as ours!
> 
> I certainly can't be bothered to argue over it! But I bet the US want our NHS! Free at the point of delivery!



Yes, I bet, we have Medicare that covers us much the same for Drs and hospital, but we have to pay an income tax levy to cover it.  The US don't like paying taxes and then wonder why they don't have some of the 'freebies' we enjoy.  No free lunches.


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## Vivjen (Jan 30, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Ive been an independent voter  since Obama was sworn in but loved Bill Clinton.



So did many others....allegedly!


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## CeeCee (Jan 30, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> So did many others....allegedly!



Lol!


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## Diwundrin (Jan 30, 2014)

Awww, had to luv Bill.  He was great entertainment value, plus he was the quintessential politician.  He did that sooooo well.  Still does.  No idea how good or bad he was as POTUS from the local viewpoint, but internationally he was a hoot.  Kinda liked the guy. But then I kinda like Hilary too, just because she's good at doing politics and seems to have kept a grasp of reality in dealing with Bill's exploits.  She handled that well.  Impressed me anyway.
Don't think I share her political views at all, just admire her personal hutzpah.


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## Rainee (Jan 31, 2014)

Well if I was an American I`d be a republican for sure... just like you CeeCee and Falcon... well supposedly your still the same CeeCee,, well you have heard our politics from our aussie posters no need for me to say any more.. I have my views but I keep them to myself ..I remember that forum your talking about is it the same one I think it is..lol I once was told to keep my views to myself and worry about my own country and leave their country alone. in other words don`t make any comments lol so I haven`t well I try not too ..and I must say too I met Bill when he was out in this country..he was ever so nice, gave me a hug and all .. but that was before I knew about his sneaky affairs lol..


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## Vivjen (Jan 31, 2014)

Rainee said:


> Well if I was an American I`d be a republican for sure... just like you CeeCee and Falcon... well supposedly your still the same CeeCee,, well you have heard our politics from our aussie posters no need for me to say any more.. I have my views but I keep them to myself ..I remember that forum your talking about is it the same one I think it is..lol I once was told to keep my views to myself and worry about my own country and leave their country alone. in other words don`t make any comments lol so I haven`t well I try not too ..and I must say too I met Bill when he was out in this country..he was ever so nice, gave me a hug and all .. but that was before I knew about his sneaky affairs lol..



I have realised Rainee that the Aussie arguments are not to be taken too seriously....sparring!
from my point of view, I find the differences between the different countries interesting ; not because of people's differing political views; but because of the different perspectives.
i hedge, but I hedge in real life too!

Perhaps Bill was lining you up for his next?!


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## CeeCee (Jan 31, 2014)

Rainee said:


> Well if I was an American I`d be a republican for sure... just like you CeeCee and Falcon... well supposedly your still the same CeeCee,, well you have heard our politics from our aussie posters no need for me to say any more.. I have my views but I keep them to myself ..I remember that forum your talking about is it the same one I think it is..lol I once was told to keep my views to myself and worry about my own country and leave their country alone. in other words don`t make any comments lol so I haven`t well I try not too ..and I must say too I met Bill when he was out in this country..he was ever so nice, gave me a hug and all .. but that was before I knew about his sneaky affairs lol..




Yes Rainee...the old WS....it could be a scary place...it was mostly Americans but there were a few Aussies beside you, Mayfly comes to mind!

It could be a wonderful place for friends and some even got married.  Falcon even had Birdie fron Canada visit him for a month....but sadly the nastiness took over in the end.

Still a republican Rainee but over the years moving away from far right and not to offend anyone but I just saw too much hate and no acceptance of anyone different.


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## That Guy (Jan 31, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Ive been an independent voter  since Obama was sworn in but loved Bill Clinton.



Thought I liked Clinton but he became just another sleazebag politician to me.


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## That Guy (Jan 31, 2014)

Ol' Ms Obama hit up San Francisco AGAIN for money.  Thought she was just here pandering the other day and she's back.  How come it's illegal for the homeless to beg but okay for the wealthy???


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