# Current political situation



## R. Zimm (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm curious as to what you all think of our current situation. The Obama Administration now has five "issues" of various sorts and yet much of the mainstream press has barely said a peep about them.

I'm not trying to create a ruckus here, just honest opinions. Do you think these issues are real? Are they important? What should be done (if anything)?

Thanks.


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## That Guy (Jun 5, 2013)

Good topic, Zimm.  Sure to bring on a lot of comments.  My honest opinion?  Personally, I must admit . . . I've become apathetic.  Not really proud of that but I will not apologize. It's just my only way of keeping sane.  I know it has a lot to do with Vietnam.  That may have been long, long ago but I enlisted at 18 believing in my country and the fight against Communism.  Was so excited about getting to vote in the next election.  Finally, I literally stood with my absentee ballot in one hand and an M16 in the other thinking about what really made a difference.  I threw the ballot away and trusted my weapon.  So, my thoughts on the issues of the day have continued downhill and I have never trusted any of the bastards in charge.  Not one!  Liars and thieves. Better stop now before I go off on a lunatic rage...


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## Ozarkgal (Jun 6, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Good topic, Zimm.  So, my thoughts on the issues of the day have continued downhill and I have never trusted any of the bastards in charge. Not one! Liars and thieves. Better stop now before I go off on a lunatic rage...



My sentiments exactly...That about sums it up.


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## Anne (Jun 6, 2013)

I thought long ago, "Why vote??", but then voted anyway, because if we didn't care or try, who knows what we'd get.  So I continued voting....then after so many years, we had no choice but to vote for the lesser of two evils....over and over again.   I'm not sure our votes really count anymore.  Money talks, bottom line, and whoever promises more freebies gets more votes, etc., etc.

I want to make things better for my children and grandchildren, but how??  They are more liberal thinking than we are; it's how they were taught in a way, and how they perceive their world.   I can see their points in some ways, not in others, and am afraid where all this progressive thinking will lead them.

And, as TWH says, I'm glad I'm old, too.


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## MercyL (Jun 8, 2013)

Our current political situation is distressing, on one hand, and enlightening, on the other.

People thought racism was dead. With Obama's election, racists lost their cool, tipped their hand, and drew targets on their backs. Now, my non-minority friends say " I can't imagine how you live knowing that people in power go out of their way to keep you and those like you in the "disposable" class of people." That bit of enlightenment has even crossed the lips of my primary physician when talking about high blood pressure among Afro-Americans.

It's not what we eat, it's what's trying to eat us. I like this bit of enlightenment.
I am glad Gay marriage is taking hold, I am glad Republicans tipped their hands at the state level with attacks on abortion rights and birth control availability. If nothing else, most women will not stand for this and vote accordingly. I just hope there are enough of us to tip the scales back our way!

I find Progessives' not pushing harder for fairness, not raising a bigger stink about obstruction, and not highlighting corporate welfare distressing. I also find the failure to curb corporate power distressing, as well.

Today's Democrats are not the Democrats I supported. They spend too much time reaching across the aisle and pursuing compromise, when they need to pursue solutions that help the common working person. We need a truly Progessive Party, not "conservative lite", which is what the Democratic Party has become.

All of these irritants are rendered moot, though, if we have passed the point of no return with our environmental problems.


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## That Guy (Jun 8, 2013)

MercyL said:


> It's not what we eat, it's what's trying to eat us.



I love everything you had to say, MercyL.  But, this most of all, I will hold onto and repeat.


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## MercyL (Jun 8, 2013)

That Guy said:


> I love everything you had to say, MercyL.  But, this most of all, I will hold onto and repeat.



Thank you so very much!


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## FishWisher (Jun 8, 2013)

I find everything you had to say, MercyL, to be the usual liberal rant. I could post a similar rant with the opposing view and am very tempted to do so: (Those who oppose Obama are racists?! Because we oppose the absurdity of so-called Gay marriage and the killing of the unborn, we have tipped out hand to what - good sense and compassion?) 

So... are we going to turn this otherwise friendly site into just another site for political battle where nobody changes anybody's mind? If so, I'll gladly join in! But aren't there plenty of such sites elsewhere?!



MercyL said:


> Our current political situation is distressing, on one hand, and enlightening, on the other.
> 
> People thought racism was dead. With Obama's election, racists lost their cool, tipped their hand, and drew targets on their backs. Now, my non-minority friends say " I can't imagine how you live knowing that people in power go out of their way to keep you and those like you in the "disposable" class of people." That bit of enlightenment has even crossed the lips of my primary physician when talking about high blood pressure among Afro-Americans.
> 
> ...


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## MercyL (Jun 8, 2013)

FishWisher said:


> I find everything you had to say, MercyL, to be the usual liberal rant. I could post a similar rant with the opposing view and am very tempted to do so: (Those who oppose Obama are racists?! Because we oppose the absurdity of so-called Gay marriage and the killing of the unborn, we have tipped out hand to what - good sense and compassion?)
> 
> So... are we going to turn this otherwise friendly site into just another site for political battle where nobody changes anybody's mind? If so, I'll gladly join in! But aren't there plenty of such sites elsewhere?!




The question was asked, and I answered. 

Racism was hidden, then went unmistakenly public with Obama's election. I did not say that being against Obama was racism, I am stating that the racism that has always been here, without Obama, has now left it's secret garden with his being elected.


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## FishWisher (Jun 8, 2013)

MercyL said:


> The question was asked, and I answered.
> 
> Racism was hidden, then went unmistakenly public with Obama's election. I did not say that being against Obama was racism, I am stating that the racism that has always been here, without Obama, has now left it's secret garden with his being elected.




Hidden in a secret garden, eh? How poetic! That's pure bunk and double talk. Obama's half white; have the black racists also come tip-toeing out of their secret garden? 

The old racism card has been completely worn out by the usual whiners on the left. Find something of substance and I'll be happy to engage.


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## Happyflowerlady (Jun 8, 2013)

Originally Posted by *FishWisher* 

                 I find everything you had to say, MercyL, to be the usual liberal rant. I could post a similar rant with the opposing view and am very tempted to do so: (Those who oppose Obama are racists?! Because we oppose the absurdity of so-called Gay marriage and the killing of the unborn, we have tipped out hand to what - good sense and compassion?) 

 So... are we going to turn this otherwise friendly site into just another site for political battle where nobody changes anybody's mind? If so, I'll gladly join in! But aren't there plenty of such sites elsewhere?!


Wisher, I so totally agree with you !   Disagreement and unfriendliness are rampant online (and being so promoted right now), and I really love that this forum is a shelter in the storm, so to speak. It is like an online coffee and chat with friends. (BYOC) 
No matter what our personal views are, I think we all can agree that the economy could be a whole lot better, and that there needs to be some reforms in big government. 
 I am for equality for all people, but not in favor of that being promoted as a reason for enmity between races.  Equality will only be achieved when people learn to care about each other, and not achieved from riots.


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## Ozarkgal (Jun 8, 2013)

*MercyL*....That old dog named racism walks down both sides of the street. I'm not sure how you believe racism has been let out of some "secret garden". No president in the history of the United States of America has ever been more favorably treated by the press than Obama, to the point of non-reporting and turning a blind eye to any indiscretion or misconduct, until it becomes either a major national or international incident and the elephant in the room can no longer be ignored. 

 At no time in history have minorities been given the advantages and opportunities to overcome oppression, perceived or real, that they have today..what they do with them is in their hands. 

I am weary to death of the race card being played everytime something doesn't go the way a minority person or group wants it to, or is caught in the act of malfeasance.

 I just re-read your post. It has been added onto since I started this reply. I think Fishwisher is right. This topic is a dead end subject that has the potential to go downhill quickly. There are some strong minded folks here, both Repubs and Dem's, who through the years have earned the right to be so. Little will be accomplished by a heated political debate on this forum. 

Suffice it to say, there is so much wrong in this country on so many levels, with so many hidden agendas, and too much power and big money at work. To even begin to have a sane discussion about politics in these insane times is merely a headbanger. 

 We don't have enough time in our life time to fix any of it, if indeed it is even fixable.  There is enough blame on both sides of the fence to go around.  In my opinion, *if a politician's mouth is moving he/she is lying,*  and most likely has some hidden scheme which involves making money, either for political donations or personal enrichment. 

Let's just have a glass of wine and enjoy each other's company and hope someday the scoundrels with eat each other. 


.


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## R. Zimm (Jun 9, 2013)

Well, that did prove interesting and I appreciate the fact that each post is thought out, honest and without name calling.

I have my own opinions about race relations in the U.S. the basic thing being that President Truman missed a big chance when he did not stand with soldiers, sailors & airmen of all races and say "Their blood was spilled for your liberty and if you don't treat them like equals the full force of the Constitution will be on your head!"

Other than that the types of politicians I have supported in the past included J.C. Watts, Alan Keyes and Herman Cain (until he dropped out) so even though I'm WAAAAY to the right politically, race plays no part in my vote. I think that Alan West will be a force to be listened to next time around as well.

Let's face it, there is much deception from all sides and stripes.


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## That Guy (Jun 9, 2013)

Happyflowerlady said:


> Disagreement and unfriendliness are rampant online (and being so promoted right now), and I really love that this forum is a shelter in the storm, so to speak. It is like an online coffee and chat with friends. (BYOC) .



Thanks, Happy!


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## rkunsaw (Jun 10, 2013)

R. Zimm said:


> Well, that did prove interesting and I appreciate the fact that each post is thought out, honest and without name calling.
> 
> I have my own opinions about race relations in the U.S. the basic thing being that President Truman missed a big chance when he did not stand with soldiers, sailors & airmen of all races and say "Their blood was spilled for your liberty and if you don't treat them like equals the full force of the Constitution will be on your head!"
> 
> ...



Well said R. Zimm.


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## That Guy (Jun 12, 2013)

The Facades of Enniskillen 

                   -- Jim Hightower



> These are hard times in Northern Ireland, where unemployment is rampant and Prime Minister David Cameron's corrosive austerity medicine is killing hope.Yet, the people of a depressed town named Enniskillen are rubbing their eyes in disbelief at a remarkable revitalization of their town centre. Practically overnight, a blight of abandoned stores has been transformed into a vibrant scene of reoccupied, fully-stocked shops enjoying a business boom. But wait: Having rubbed their eyes and peered closer, the denizens of Enniskillen see that this is not a miracle – it's a mirage. The spiffy new streetscapes are nothing but posters plastered over the old vacant buildings.
> Why this lie? Because Cameron, Angela Merkel, Barack Obama, Vladimir Putin, and other heads of state are coming to the G8 Summit being held this month at a five-star, luxury golf resort just down the road from Enniskillen. Yes, extravagance adjacent to depression. Organizers, however, don't want the eyeballs of these world leaders to be singed by economic reality. Thus, they have put a half-million dollars into the town centre to create a Potemkin Village so that G8 participants will not have unpleasant memories from passing through Enniskillen on their way to the resort, where they will discuss the magic of austerity for the masses and more tax cuts for the superrich.
> "It is essential that town centres appear as attractive and welcoming as possible," declared Northern Ireland's social development minister. And a regional official explained that the half-million dollar fluff-up of Enniskillen will "address the poor physical and unattractive appearance of properties."
> So, if you wonder why the world economy is in the ditch and our leaders are so clueless, unconcerned, and unwilling to take action look no further than the facades of Enniskillen


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## R. Zimm (Jun 13, 2013)

"_Organizers, however, don't want the eyeballs of these world leaders to be singed by economic reality."

That is sort of like "Let them eat cake" I suppose._


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 13, 2013)

Although I'm not very happy with the political leaders current or past, I'll vote to choose the lesser of the two evils.  I'm honestly not very political at all, but the two party system has created a rut for us, seems to leave much to be desired.  I don't want my freedoms or rights as a natural born American to be negatively affected in any way, of that I am sure.

  I think some overfunding and boredom has caused the powers to be to focus on snooping on the citizens of the US, as opposed to investigating real worldly threats, and that's disappointing. None of us deserve to be monitored under a microscope, that to me is insane.   Luckily I will be long gone before the $hit hits the fan, and only now am I grateful that I never had any children, to worry about their future.  It's sad really, we have so much knowledge and influence, but we're working against ourselves, instead of progressing, we seem to be backsliding.  The main stream media offers no real truth at all anymore, more of a sideshow, IMO.  Has power and greed become out of control?  

PS: I'm glad to be here among a group of rational folks, who can discuss these things without going off the deep end.  I'm not one to argue or object too much to anyone with opposing views.  If this thread was too heated and strongly opinionated, I wouldn't even post.  Good to be here with some reasonable and open-minded people.


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## That Guy (Jun 14, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> I'm glad to be here among a group of rational folks, who can discuss these things without going off the deep end.  I'm not one to argue or object too much to anyone with opposing views.  If this thread was too heated and strongly opinionated, I wouldn't even post.  Good to be here with some reasonable and open-minded people.



Me, too, Sea.  Me, too.


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## R. Zimm (Jun 16, 2013)

Yes, this forum is a refreshing break for the usual madness. It's still madness, just not the usual madness!


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 16, 2013)

R. Zimm said:


> Yes, this forum is a refreshing break for the usual madness. It's still madness, just not the usual madness!



:iagree:.....:lol:


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## Happyflowerlady (Jun 16, 2013)

The world certainly seems like it has gone crazy sometimes, with all the wars and fighting everywhere. Anytime it looks like it might get better, a new conflict comes along.
I worry about how my children and grandchildren will manage, as the disasters, and government regulations just seem to keep escalating. It certainly almost seems like maybe we would be better off if the aliens are out there waiting to save the world, as some claim. 
I read the Chariots of the Gods, and some of the books similar to that, and they do have some good questions of where some of our worldly mysteries come from, if not from off world visitors.


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## That Guy (Jun 17, 2013)

It dawned on me (duh) that Orwell's futuristic story came to fruition long ago.  We are being constantly watched and "protected", lies are truth and war is peace.  The privileged elite keep us in a state of perpetual war while independent thinking is deemed dangerous and totalitarianism grows with viral strength.


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## SifuPhil (Jun 17, 2013)

I've been seeing a bit of a buzz lately online of how we're actually a combination of _1984_ and _Brave New World, _with more emphasis placed on Huxley's work. *This infographic* really put it into perspective for me ...


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## That Guy (Jun 17, 2013)

Wow!  Huxley sure took us through THAT door of perception.  The parallels of both their works and our modern world are disturbing.


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## R. Zimm (Jun 19, 2013)

Phil is on the front lines of Propaganda Theory once again!


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## SifuPhil (Jun 19, 2013)

R. Zimm said:


> Phil is on the front lines of Propaganda Theory once again!


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## R. Zimm (Jun 24, 2013)

Phil + Gimp = DANGER!


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## SifuPhil (Jun 24, 2013)

R. Zimm said:


> Phil + Gimp = DANGER!





Dangerous_ looking_, perhaps, but really a big, cuddly teddy-bear!


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## wendallb (Jun 25, 2013)

I do believe that this country is being systematically destroyed from the inside.  I think there are many factors involved but don't know if it can ever be turned around and that makes me sad.

IMHO the government is one big lying machine bent on money control and power no matter which party.


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## That Guy (Jun 25, 2013)

wendallb said:


> I do believe that this country is being systematically destroyed from the inside.  I think there are many factors involved but don't know if it can ever be turned around and that makes me sad.
> 
> IMHO the government is one big lying machine bent on money control and power no matter which party.



Too true.  Although, there is no turning around as we can never go back, no returning to the past, only going headlong into the future.  Even a new depression or total apocalyptic crash is still a future calamity and not the past.  So, using classic corporate speak, in 'moving forward' the question is what direction . . .    "Forward!" he cried from the rear...


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## SifuPhil (Jun 25, 2013)

That Guy said:


> . . .    "Forward!" he cried from the rear...



... and the front rank diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii-iiiiiiied .... 

They say that the definition of insanity is performing the same actions repeatedly and expecting different outcomes.

That's how I view the voting process.

Our little-town mayor recently announced that crime rates have dropped in the city. When you look at the stats you see that something like 24 out of 27 categories of crime have actually _increased_ over the past year.

Arrests have also increased. Naturally. But not for the perps that mugged a lady for a pack of cigarettes down the street the other night.

When called on the discrepancy, he claimed that he was looking at the "long-term trend", not the year-to-year stats, since "stats are OK but I don't put much faith in them".


... this is the mayor that people _voted_ for, and presumably he was the _best_ of the bunch.

That's why I don't vote.


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## wendallb (Jun 26, 2013)

I vote for 2 reasons..

1. Just makes me happy that I spoke for myself
2. So i have the right to bitch when things are not going well

I personally think it is a obligation to vote, but that is just me..


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## SifuPhil (Jun 26, 2013)

wendallb said:


> I vote for 2 reasons..
> 
> 1. Just makes me happy that I spoke for myself



Granted that's an excellent reason, but in the process I don't feel the need to elect OTHERS to speak FOR me.



> 2. So i have the right to bitch when things are not going well



This is a reason that is often brought up in these discussions, and frankly I've never understood it. Do you get a city or county license to rant when you register to vote? Do they read you your rights like a cop when you enter the booth - "You have the right to an attorney, you have the right to bitch ..."

I've always thought that we were all BORN with the "right" to complain. I don't have to hitch my wagon to any particular team in order to do so. I can stand on that little hill just outside of town and yell down what's wrong with the system all I like, but technically I have NO legal, moral or ethical obligation to offer fixes. I'm an observer of and commentator on society who only fixes his own little corner of the world.



In other words, I have the "right" to be what many would call a _jerk_ but I prefer to call _unaffiliated_. 




> I personally think it is a obligation to vote, but that is just me..



Again I understand your point of view but cannot claim that I share it.

Given the choice between two evils, most would choose the lesser. That's how the political system works and has survived for so long. 

I elect to choose *neither*. I don't _like_ evil, I don't _need_ evil and I certainly don't _want_ evil. I'm a big boy, I can take care of myself and I don't need anyone to "represent" me, certainly not any of the yahoos that play in the political sandbox.


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## FishWisher (Jun 26, 2013)

I vote in every election. And what a waste of time - it's proof every two years that what I think doesn't matter. I vote the opposite of how just about every election goes in this pathetic third world of Kalifornistan. At least they can't blame me for the mess!

I've never voted in an election that my vote made a difference. I've changed nothing. And my vote never will change anything. 

And it's all a sad, sad shame. I am the one with all the answers and nobody is listening!


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## SifuPhil (Jun 26, 2013)

FishWisher said:


> ... And it's all a sad, sad shame. I am the one with all the answers and nobody is listening!



Isn't that _frustrating_?!? 

Maybe the system worked in the old days when wooden teeth and powdered wigs were the fashion of the day, but it doesn't seem to be too terribly effective _now_ ...


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## That Guy (Jun 26, 2013)

I agree with you, SifuPhil, on the ridiculous notion that not voting in any given election denies that citizen the right to complain.  That's a perfect example of the pretzel logic plaguing our collective, brainwashed, dittoheaded American Idiot Nation...


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## MercyL (Jun 26, 2013)

wendallb said:


> I vote for 2 reasons..
> 
> 1. Just makes me happy that I spoke for myself
> 2. So i have the right to bitch when things are not going well
> ...



It is not just you.

I grew up hearing, seeing, and being subjected to unfettered, deeply entrenched, discriminatory policies that would have remained unchanged without minorities and women fighting, and dying for the right to vote.

I would be remiss in my duties as a human being if I did not exercise this right that conservatives are working overtime to rescind while I sit here, typing this response. 

People who do not participate in the process might as well just hand their rights over to those who appreciate them. Voters need those rights and, apparently, no voters do not.


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## FishWisher (Jun 26, 2013)

MercyL said:


> ...I would be remiss in my duties as a human being if I did not exercise this right that conservatives are working overtime to rescind while I sit here, typing this response.



Alright, Mercy, let's hear it! Conservatives are working overtime to rescind what, exactly? I for one am not getting any overtime although I am a proud conservative. Somebody must be screwing me! oops. There I go sounding like a liberal...


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## Ozarkgal (Jun 26, 2013)

MercyL said:


> People who do not participate in the process might as well just hand their rights over to those who appreciate them. Voters need those rights and, apparently, no voters do not.




Warning.....:soap2:


Voters and non voters get the same treatment from politicians...they are equal opportunity offenders.  The only difference is that voters are useful tools to gain entry into the omnipotent political club.  Non voters have no expectations that politicians are going to make a beneficial difference, and are not disappointed...voters go to the polls with the hope that their candidate will represent their values and beliefs, and are mostly disappointed to find they don't.

 I'm not handing my vote over to anyone, thank you. I'll keep it myself and use it when and if there is ever a candidate that sincerely has this country's best interest at heart...If the voting process actually did work, I would be the first one in line on voting day to mark the ballot. There's not much point when the so called representatives of the people make grandiose campaign promises, tell the people what they want to hear and as soon as they are entrenched in their government cat bird seat, practically before the last vote is counted they have already flip flopped like a fish on dry land on every issue they ran a campaign on and are stuffing their fat pockets with pork from ridiculous bills that no one reads. 

 Corruption runs deep, and they are a bunch of grifters that know how to work the people and the system to their financial and political advantage. We have a president who, along with his family are world class vacationers, currently on their latest 100 million dollar vacation. A Gang of 8 bunch of gangsters who are trying their damnest to shove down our throats an immigration bill full of pork and ridiculous entitlements, with no provision for future curtailment of illegal immigration, that they crafted behind closed doors, and now are pushing for passing before anyone reads it. This gang is comprised of some representatives who were voted in on the promise of border control before an immigration bill was passed, who have now totally flipped and fell in line with the "let's get this bill passed at any cost" crowd. 

Why should I have voted for them, they don't represent what I want, even though they say they do before the polls close?  I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday, I know better...they do exactly what benefits them.

 You have a weeney wagger named Weiner who had to resign his seat because he is so proud of his teeney weeney weeney he had to show it off on a public forum, now running for Mayor of New York. Silly me, when I heard he was running I laughed out loud, thinking that no one would vote for him. The joke is on me, he is actually ahead by in the polls by 24% of his closest opponent. I think he's popular because people just like to make jokes about his name, he has name recogintion.

 What is wrong with the character of voters who want this sleezebag of loose morals to represent them? Is this truly the best they have? I should waste my time to go to the polls to vote for these kinds of pervs? 

The list is infinite and grows on a daily basis lately, but these are a few recent in the news examples.


Just what "rights" are you handing over by not voting when politicians do exactly what they want, regardless of what their constituents voted them in for? No one is handing over rights, they are being taken from you.

You have a United States President that could not care less about the constitution, but invokes executive power when it suits him to circumvent constitutional issues.  If you think your vote counts anymore, think again. 

 Politicians are systematically dumbing this country down, financially, mentally, educationally, and morally while they work away at eroding it into a third world country for the benefit of those who want power and money....greed and power is the driving force my friend....not your vote!  These sharpsters are getting more brazen and in your face about it all now, because they know that essentially nothing will happen to them and they will  keep getting voted in, no matter what they do.

Until such time the people of this country hold these miscreants feet to the fire and make them answer for their absurd laws, pork bills, lies, deceit, flip flopping on issues, uncontrolled spending, thievery, closed door legislation, and invasion of privacy, your voting power is null and void. As another of our stellar examples, Hillary stated, "What difference does it make, at this point?"

I have to say the state of affairs this country is now in is also due to the fault of no or low information voters who have no clue as to what the political issues are, much less what the candidates they are voting for actually stand for, or at least claims to stand for or how the American political process even works. These people, in my opinion are much more detrimental to the direction this country has taken than people who do not exercise their right to vote for what ever reason.


And that sums up the *current political situation* as seen through the eyes of a non voter!


*Phil,* your infograph is in line with what is happening all over...it's not just America. There is an agenda that thinking people are beginning to connect the dots to....it's starting to make a clear picture.











Waiting for the aliens to beam me up!


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## R. Zimm (Jun 26, 2013)

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"

- Mark Twain


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## SifuPhil (Jun 26, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Warning.....:soap2: ...





... I think I love you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





EXTREMELY well said. 

Bread and circuses ... the masses want entertainment. They don't want to think - thinkers are in the minority, and the minority never counted at the polls. That's why the entertainment industries always do well no matter what the financial climate. Bars, movies, computers, smart phones, music, drugs, sex - they all continue to thrive because they offer an escape from an ugly reality.

THAT'S what The People want. 

O-Gal, you should write a book - seriously.


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## That Guy (Jun 26, 2013)

Thank-you, Ozarkgal!  You get my vote . . ,


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## Anne (Jun 26, 2013)

Ozarkgal:    :applause2: Way to go, girl!!!!   :iagree:


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## rkunsaw (Jun 27, 2013)

Add me to your fan club Ozarkgal.


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## Ozarkgal (Jun 27, 2013)

Hubby read my rant...says he's waiting for 3 or 4 black SUV's to come down the driveway...There was a day in time when I would have laughed at that.


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## Anne (Jun 27, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Hubby read my rant...says he's waiting for 3 or 4 black SUV's to come down the driveway...There was a day in time when I would have laughed at that.



Ozarkgal, true story:  Some years ago, I wrote a couple rather nasty letters to the FDA regarding some supplements that they banned....  Some time later, I heard a helicopter flying very low overhead and went outside to see what it was all about.  A dark-colored helicopter was flying over the house, so low that I wondered if they might hit our high scanner antenna; then circled the property three times, and then left.
I'm sure it was a military copter, since there's a base not far from that area; but of course, I did think of the letters I'd written.  I mentioned it later to a friend, and she told me I should never write that kind of letters to a gov't agency again - that they would likely be watching me.


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## MercyL (Jun 27, 2013)

Anne said:


> Ozarkgal, true story:  Some years ago, I wrote a couple rather nasty letters to the FDA regarding some supplements that they banned....  Some time later, I heard a helicopter flying very low overhead and went outside to see what it was all about.  A dark-colored helicopter was flying over the house, so low that I wondered if they might hit our high scanner antenna; then circled the property three times, and then left.
> I'm sure it was a military copter, since there's a base not far from that area; but of course, I did think of the letters I'd written.  I mentioned it later to a friend, and she told me I should never write that kind of letters to a gov't agency again - that they would likely be watching me.



I have had moments when it felt like the feds were checking me out. I haven't had the helicopters, recently, but one day, a couple of years ago, I had a knock on my front door, and answered it. There was a fellow standing there with a clip board and a woman. He started talking about getting a security system, one that I had not ordered and had expressed no interest in.

They wanted to come inside my home. Each time I said I was not interested, he came up with another reason. I finally closed the door in his face, but I asked around and no one else had anyone show up at their door pushing a security system. During his talk, he said I would probably see the security company's signs popping up on my neighbor's lawns.

I remain baffled to this day, but have changed my front door policy. This visit happened right after I had written a letter to the White House on that site they have. 

If I am not expecting anyone, I don't answer a knock at the door. I will walk quietly up to the door and look through the peep hole to see if I recognize a neighbor,  because you never knows if someone needs help, but I do not open the door if I don't recognize the person on the other side.


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## That Guy (Jun 27, 2013)

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't really after me . . . !


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## Anne (Jun 27, 2013)

MercyL said:


> I have had moments when it felt like the feds were checking me out. I haven't had the helicopters, recently, but one day, a couple of years ago, I had a knock on my front door, and answered it. There was a fellow standing there with a clip board and a woman. He started talking about getting a security system, one that I had not ordered and had expressed no interest in.
> 
> They wanted to come inside my home. Each time I said I was not interested, he came up with another reason. I finally closed the door in his face, but I asked around and no one else had anyone show up at their door pushing a security system. During his talk, he said I would probably see the security company's signs popping up on my neighbor's lawns.
> 
> ...



  That would definitely have spooked me too!!  I had an experience where this guy came to the door asking to use the phone, as he said he had car trouble.  This was in daylight, but none of the neighbors were home, and I wasn't about to let him in the house, as I was alone.   I told him my husband was sleeping, and stepped outside....didn't see a car anywhere, and when asked, he said it had broken down 'down the road'.  
I told him where there was a grocery store nearby, and that he could call for help from there.   He hesitated and just stood there for a minute, but I wasn't going to let a stranger in not knowing what was going on for sure; and he finally did leave.
It is sad that we are afraid to help people, but you hear so many horror stories, so who knows.

As far as the feds watching people, I wouldn't think they would bother unless we belonged to a certain group, or were actively involved in some anti-government group.  It is puzzling what these people were doing at your house, unless they were casing the place, which is entirely possible.


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## That Guy (Jun 27, 2013)




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## Anne (Jun 27, 2013)

That Guy said:


>




NOOOOOO!!!!   OMG, it's That Guy again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     :drive:  nthego:   :rofl:


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 27, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Hubby read my rant...says he's waiting for 3 or 4 black SUV's to come down the driveway...There was a day in time when I would have laughed at that.



They'll likely just send a drone to keep an eye on you Ozark...after all, folks like you are a threat to this great country, likely a terrorist, LOL!  Why can't we all be good little trusting sheeple, and trust that they know what's best for us. :mask:


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## That Guy (Jun 27, 2013)

Not to worry.  It's just the Domino's Pizzabot!


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## Warrigal (Jul 12, 2013)

Pardon me for laughing.
Surely you guys are paranoid.

Downunder we have compulsory voting. We don't actually have to vote.
All we have to do is turn up and have our names marked off to avoid getting a please explain or a fine.
Participation rates are very high because we have all kinds of options - absentee voting for when we cannot be physically present in our electorate, pre-polling and postal voting also make it easy for people who have to work on polling day or who are too infirm to leave the house.

I joke that I must have an ASIO file by now because I write to politicians quite often. I wrote to John Howard (former PM) urging him not to take us to war in Iraq and received a letter in return that talked about 'weapons of mass destruction'. I've written other letters to the appropriate ministers urging better treatment for asylum seekers, especially the children but I'm not really worried that the government has me under observation. Sometimes I even write letters of encouragement to individual politicians who have done something  praiseworthy.

I believe that we get the government we deserve and that apathy and cynicism are not the right tools with which to grow a robust democracy. Mind you, I think you have too many elections. We don't elect the judiciary or people like police commissioners. We do elect representatives for the three tiers of government - federal, state and local councils. That's enough for us.


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## SifuPhil (Jul 12, 2013)

Warrigal said:


> Pardon me for laughing.
> Surely you guys are paranoid.



Sometimes paranoia is born of long experience ... 



> Downunder we have compulsory voting. We don't actually have to vote.
> All we have to do is turn up and have our names marked off to avoid getting a please explain or a fine.
> Participation rates are very high because we have all kinds of options - absentee voting for when we cannot be physically present in our electorate, pre-polling and postal voting also make it easy for people who have to work on polling day or who are too infirm to leave the house.


 
So it IS compulsory and you actually have to "be counted" - how do you know they still don't use your name for some kind of vote?



> I joke that I must have an ASIO file by now because I write to politicians quite often. I wrote to John Howard (former PM) urging him not to take us to war in Iraq and received a letter in return that talked about 'weapons of mass destruction'. I've written other letters to the appropriate ministers urging better treatment for asylum seekers, especially the children but I'm not really worried that the government has me under observation. Sometimes I even write letters of encouragement to individual politicians who have done something  praiseworthy.



At one time, in the dim and distant past, our politicians did a few praiseworthy things as well ... 



> I believe that we get the government we deserve and that apathy and cynicism are not the right tools with which to grow a robust democracy. Mind you, I think you have too many elections. We don't elect the judiciary or people like police commissioners. We do elect representatives for the three tiers of government - federal, state and local councils. That's enough for us.



I believe we get the government they _want_ us to have. Did you know that in our "Democracy" the majority of people could vote for a candidate, yet that candidate could still lose? Do you folks have an "electoral college"? That's a complicated way of making sure that only certain votes have any real weight, and is a system that is open to abuse.


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## Warrigal (Jul 12, 2013)

> So it IS compulsory and you actually have to "be counted" - how do you know they still don't use your name for some kind of vote?


All voting is by pen/pencil and paper. If you turn up and have your name crossed of the electoral roll then no-one else can vote using your name. Once you receive the voting papers, which are initialled when you have your name ruled through,you go to a booth, mark it (or not if you refuse to vote) and then drop it yourself into the appropriate box for counting after the polls close. Counting is watched/checked by party scrutineers.




> I believe we get the government they _want_ us to have. Did you know that in our "Democracy" the majority of people could vote for a candidate, yet that candidate could still lose? Do you folks have an "electoral college"? That's a complicated way of making sure that only certain votes have any real weight, and is a system that is open to abuse.


First, we don't elect our head of state because we are still a constitutional monarchy. We have nothing equivalent to your electoral college, nor do we have your system of primaries. We do have an upper house, the Senate, which is very similar to yours. Senators have a fixed 6 year term and half retire every three years. Each state elects 6 senators for every half senate election and the seats are allocated by proportional representation using a preferential voting system. 

We also have a lower house, the House of Representatives, which has a maximum term of 3 years but the PM can call an early election if he/she wants to. One representative is elected from each electorate using a preferential system. Counting of preferences only happens if no candidate gets at least (50% + 1) of the primary votes.

Whichever party wins the majority of lower house seats gets to form government and its leader is appointed Prime Minister by the Queen's representative, our Governor General (a mostly ceremonial position). The party can change leaders at any time and then we have a new prime minister. This has happened in the last month when our first ever woman PM was challenged and defeated by someone from her own party. The irony is that three years ago she did the same to him.

We are due for a new election later this year but the date has not yet been set by the new PM. Even though the last three years have been tumultuous, with a minority government surviving only with the support of a handful of independent MPs, and with scandals surrounding various MPs, including The Speaker of the House, we are still facing a reasonably close election. Politics down here is anything but dull.


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## SifuPhil (Jul 12, 2013)

Thank you for the education - I appreciate it - but something you need to know about me - I'm totally apolitical. My idea of the perfect system of governance would be none at all. 

I'm sure you folks have your fair share of intrigue and in-fighting, much as we have here. We are actually more of a monarchy as well, since our leaders act like kings and queens. 

You sound like you're very involved in the process, or at least very understanding of it - congratulations.


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## Warrigal (Jul 12, 2013)

I'm an ex teacher and way back in 1962 at teachers' college we did a course in government. For one term we studied the Russian revolutions and the subsequent system of government that developed in the Soviet Union. Then for a term we studied the American Revolution and the system of democracy that emerged in the US. For the final term we studied the Westminster system of the English parliament and our own system that has some elements of the British parliament and the American federal system. It has been very helpful in understanding what is going on both here and in some other countries.


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## That Guy (Jul 12, 2013)

Warrigal said:


> Downunder we have compulsory voting. We don't actually have to vote.
> All we have to do is turn up and have our names marked off to avoid getting a please explain or a fine.



I would love to give them a compulsive mooning and "Explain THIS!"


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