# Can't be alone with a woman?



## Sunny (Jul 12, 2019)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/miss-can...e-alone-with-a-female-reporter-160344454.html
All I can say is, wow!


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## gennie (Jul 12, 2019)

My take is - (1) he's so obsessed with his own good looks that he thinks he is irresistible to all women OR (2) he knows he lacks self control in the company of women.  My advice - bring on the burka


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## raybar (Jul 12, 2019)

"Foster pointed out that he is a married man and that he made an agreement with his wife, in observance of his Christian faith, that neither of them could “be alone with someone of the opposite sex throughout our marriage.”"

Does this include his own mother? How about a daughter? What about her father, brothers, cousins, her pastor?


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 12, 2019)

Miss X wants to follow around Mr. Y, as he campaigns for office. Miss X is a reporter. They spend the day together going from event to event. A week later, Miss X's story appears in the paper. She claims that Mr. Y pawed her repeatedly, and got his hand up her dress. BTW, Miss X is a paid staff for the other candidate, running against Mr. Y. Well, you decide did he or didn't he?
I think that  Republican candidate is prudent. Why put yourself at possible risk when you don't have to.  And if candidate, Mr. Y was smart, he'd never be totally alone with Mr.X, either.


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## debbie in seattle (Jul 12, 2019)

Doesn’t our VP live by those choices also?


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## StarSong (Jul 12, 2019)

Wow indeed, Sunny.  This candidate has announced that he can't be alone in the same room as a female?  Imagine how many senior female staff he's hired in his campaign - not to mention how many he'd have if elected governor.


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## Uptosnuff (Jul 12, 2019)

“I’m not ever going to be put in a situation with any female to where they could make an accusation against me and there’s not a witness there to refute that accusation.” 

Sadly, I totally understand this point of view.  It has gotten to the point where men at work, certainly not bosses, ever compliment a woman on her appearance for fear of accusations.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 12, 2019)

Can I understand why a  male candidate would be gun shy about being in the same room, ALONE, with a female. Oh, yeah. I was a Registered Nurse. There were many times I was alone in a female patient's room. I was  "the male nurse". Did it occur to me that I could lose my livelihood,  my license, and my reputation pretty much with any accusation- OH YES!! That was always in the back of my mind.


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## StarSong (Jul 12, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Can I understand why a  male candidate would be gun shy about being in the same room, ALONE, with a female. Oh, yeah. I was a Registered Nurse. There were many times I was alone in a female patient's room. I was  "the male nurse". Did it occur to me that I could lose my livelihood,  my license, and my reputation pretty much with any accusation- OH YES!! That was always in the back of my mind.



Were you ever accused of that, FB?


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## Knight (Jul 12, 2019)

raybar said:


> "Foster pointed out that he is a married man and that he made an agreement with his wife, in observance of his Christian faith, that neither of them could “be alone with someone of the opposite sex throughout our marriage.”"
> Does this include his own mother? How about a daughter? What about her father, brothers, cousins, her pastor?



Quote from the article
“I’m not ever going to be put in a situation with any female to where they could make an accusation against me and there’s not a witness there to refute that accusation.”

Stretching this to include everyday interaction with family members or the wife's pastor [if the pastor was a male] is reasonable. Only if any of those were waiting for the opportunity to destroy their own reputation. 

Keeping this in the context of his ambition to be an elected public servant, unlike an average person male or female, as a public figure he is vulnerable to accusations. Think of it this way. If a forklift driver for a major company was accused by a female worker working for the same company there would no headlines in the major media outlets. Job loss due to suspicion until proven one way or the other not going to matter to the general public where they live.


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## Sunny (Jul 12, 2019)

OK, for those who believe this is a sensible policy, what about the situation that often comes up in a small workplace, where one man and one woman are the only occupants of the office at the moment, or the company's lunchroom?  What if they're having lunch, with two men and one woman in the room, and one man gets up and leaves?  Does the other man now have to leave his lunch half-uneaten and rush out of the room, lest he commit a "Christian" sin?

And what if, heaven forbid, a man finds himself alone in a room with another man who happens to be gay (but never lets that intrude in his professional life)?  But the "religious" guy knows that the other man is gay?

What about a male doctor with a female patient?  Or a female doctor with a male patient?  What about a psychiatrist?  What about the fellow who fixes your washing machine or your air conditioning unit?  Must he bring along a "chaperone" on every job, just in case the woman is alone in the house?

This level of insanity could bring modern life to a screeching halt.


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## Trade (Jul 12, 2019)

Just from the title of this thread I know what his political party is. I don't have to google it.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 12, 2019)

debbie in seattle said:


> Doesn’t our VP live by those choices also?


Yep and it is ridiculous.  Reflects zero faith in themselves or their mate.


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## Uptosnuff (Jul 12, 2019)

Sunny said:


> This level of insanity could bring modern life to a screeching halt.



Exactly.  And it's doing just that.


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## Olivia (Jul 12, 2019)

Foster explained:

_“Perception is reality in this world,” he continued, “and I don’t want to give anybody the opinion that I’m doing something that I should not be doing.” _

By his behavior the perception is that he really wants to and needs to have a chaperone so that he won't.


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## Knight (Jul 12, 2019)

Trying not to make this political even though the article is about a politician. I think where this gets strange is the agreement between the husband & wife. Not typical but to each their own in a marriage. VP Pence won't eat a meal alone with a woman, wealthy business men & I suspect wealthy business women take precautions to keep from being accused of inappropriate behavior.

I think to keep this relating to a politician & what is in the news very often. This is a politician not wanting to be accused of anything makes sense to me. I base that on mainstream media & social media's delight of hyping a story without any real facts.

I really believe this isn't a trust issue between husband and wife. A person would have to be in denial not to understand that wealthy people & politicians are  targets for opportunists. Or in denial that at times paying to make the problem go away can be far less expensive than taking the issue to court. In this politicians instance better to prevent than to possibly have to defend.


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## treeguy64 (Jul 12, 2019)

Sorry, I'm dissenting, here. The #MeToo movement has ruined lives by making claims, without any proof, whatsoever. If I were in situations where women were going to be closely following me, I would insist on having an observer along, at all times. I don't believe this guy is nuts. I think he's very realistic, and cautious. We're living in very odd times, ladies and gentlemen.


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 12, 2019)

I would follow the same policy I just wouldn't announce it in a damned if you do damned if you don't world.

I think it's a big mistake for anyone to be alone with a person of any age in today's world unless it's a member of your immediate family.


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## StarSong (Jul 12, 2019)

I'd have a lot more respect for this guy if he also insisted on having a third party present when meeting with lobbyists and political donors.  Preferably a third party with a tape recorder.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 12, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Sorry, I'm dissenting, here. The #MeToo movement has ruined lives by making claims, without any proof, whatsoever. If I were in situations where women were going to be closely following me, I would insist on having an observer along, at all times. I don't believe this guy is nuts. I think he's very realistic, and cautious. We're living in very odd times, ladies and gentlemen.


Seems unnecessary to me but then what do I know...


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## C'est Moi (Jul 12, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Sorry, I'm dissenting, here. The #MeToo movement has ruined lives by making claims, without any proof, whatsoever. If I were in situations where women were going to be closely following me, I would insist on having an observer along, at all times. I don't believe this guy is nuts. I think he's very realistic, and cautious. We're living in very odd times, ladies and gentlemen.


Totally agree.  And I don't get why the supporters of the "me too" movement can't support this man's rights as well.


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## C'est Moi (Jul 12, 2019)

StarSong said:


> I'd have a lot more respect for this guy if he also insisted on having a third party present when meeting with lobbyists and political donors.  Preferably a third party with a tape recorder.


How do you know he doesn't?


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## C'est Moi (Jul 12, 2019)

Sunny said:


> OK, for those who believe this is a sensible policy, what about the situation that often comes up in a small workplace, where one man and one woman are the only occupants of the office at the moment, or the company's lunchroom?  What if they're having lunch, with two men and one woman in the room, and one man gets up and leaves?  Does the other man now have to leave his lunch half-uneaten and rush out of the room, lest he commit a "Christian" sin?
> 
> And what if, heaven forbid, a man finds himself alone in a room with another man who happens to be gay (but never lets that intrude in his professional life)?  But the "religious" guy knows that the other man is gay?
> 
> ...


I think those suppositions are taking this to the extreme.   In today's world, just the HINT of impropriety can ruin a politician's career.   Taking steps to avoid any possible misunderstanding is being smart, IMO.  

Oh, and the last time I had an appointment with a male gynecologist, there was a female nurse in the room at all times.


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## StarSong (Jul 12, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> How do you know he doesn't?



Not to be too chaffish, but it's logical that if he felt that way toward potential influencers he'd have said something like, "just as I have done with political donors and lobbyists, I insist on having a third party present when I'm going to be alone with a woman."


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## C'est Moi (Jul 12, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Not to be too chaffish, but it's logical that if he felt that way toward potential influencers he'd have said something like, "just as I have done with political donors and lobbyists, I insist on having a third party present when I'm going to be alone with a woman."


I think he made it clear what his reasons are, so what more do people need?   The reporter was a jerk for not just accepting the conditions and moving forward, instead of taking an opportunity to ridicule the man.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 12, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> I think those suppositions are taking this to the extreme.   In today's world, just the HINT of impropriety can ruin a politician's career.   Taking steps to avoid any possible misunderstanding is being smart, IMO.
> 
> Oh, and the last time I had an appointment with a male gynecologist, there was a female nurse in the room at all times.


 I agree that a gynecologist (male or female) should have a third party present.  But, as just a person in 99% of the circumstances I feel needing a third party present is ridiculous on many levels.  I have a woman here in my home one day a week.  She cleans, does laundry etc., but we have hours where we have conversations.  We respect one another and nothing happens other than two people conversing about many things all decent.


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## treeguy64 (Jul 12, 2019)

AZ Jim said:


> I agree that a gynecologist (male or female) should have a third party present.  But, as just a person in 99% of the circumstances I feel needing a third party present is ridiculous on many levels.  I have a woman here in my home one day a week.  She cleans, does laundry etc., but we have hours where we have conversations.  We respect one another and nothing happens other than two people conversing about many things all decent.


Oh buddy. I really hope everything stays cool with this woman, if she gets it in her head that you might have enough money to make it worth her while to accuse you of improprieties. You are in a vulnerable position, given recent events in your life, unfortunately. You may discount the scenario I mention, above,  but, believe me, it has happened to other guys, I'm positive. I would NEVER have any woman,  alone in my house with me,  who wasn't a relative or my gf. Times have changed. Litigious people are everywhere, looking for vulnerable folks, to sue.


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## C'est Moi (Jul 12, 2019)

AZ Jim said:


> I agree that a gynecologist (male or female) should have a third party present.  But, as just a person in 99% of the circumstances I feel needing a third party present is ridiculous on many levels.  I have a woman here in my home one day a week.  She cleans, does laundry etc., but we have hours where we have conversations.  We respect one another and nothing happens other than two people conversing about many things all decent.


Are you running for office?


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## AZ Jim (Jul 12, 2019)

This lady also works for a friend across the street (he's in his mid90's).  She is a very nice lady and I am not the least worried about her.  I'd hate to live in a world where I couldn't be with someone (male or female) without worrying about it.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 12, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> Are you running for office?


No!  But if I were I would hope for your vote...


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## C'est Moi (Jul 12, 2019)

AZ Jim said:


> No!  But if I were I would hope for your vote...


Of course I'd vote for you, Jim.


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## Trade (Jul 12, 2019)

I think he's quite Talibanesque in his thinking. . 
.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 12, 2019)

Trade said:


> I think he's quite Talibanesque in his thinking. .
> .


??? WHO????


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## Gary O' (Jul 12, 2019)

Trade said:


> I think he's quite Talibanesque in his thinking.


Touchy subject

Hopefully not touchy feely

One afternoon a lady in upper management came into my office….. and closed the door

I hadn’t been VP of Operations for all that long

She broke into tears

I think she was assuming I’d give her a hug or something


She was a looker

I just sat there

After about five or ten minutes of her sobbing, and saying something unintelligible
(hard to define when folks get that sob hiccup thing goin’), I asked her if she felt better

Got a nod

She carefully dabbed around her eye makeup…and left

Me?

I grabbed my clubs and got the heck outa there

I can negotiate in closed door conference rooms with the hardest core pros all day

But that kinda ‘conference’?

I have no idea

It gets treacherous


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## treeguy64 (Jul 13, 2019)

When I was teaching, I had a student teacher assigned to me. She wanted to tell me all about her failed marriage and troubles with alcohol. I told her that we needed to keep our conversations about work. She was visibly po'd. 

A week went by, and it was time to grade notebooks. I asked her if she would come in on Saturday morning to work on the notebooks with my wife and I. I told her I'd give her Friday off. The next thing I know, she disappeared. 

A week later my coordinating professor called me. He told me that she had requested a different teacher because I was coming on to her, sexually. WHAT??!!

This was decades before #MeToo. She was angry because I wouldn't listen to her personal life stories, and struck out the only way she thought would impact me, in some negative way. Nothing happened to me, but, even thirty years later, I still think about how I'd like to confront this liar, and call her out for trying her bs. 

The baseless charges made against a person, because  another person has been spurned, one way or another, have been around forever. Thing is, the internet now helps put ideas in the minds of folks, folks who might never come up with a given scheme on their own, and some of those ideas and schemes can lead to very unfortunate outcomes. 

Be careful, AJ.


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 13, 2019)

AZ Jim said:


> I agree that a gynecologist (male or female) should have a third party present.  But, as just a person in 99% of the circumstances I feel needing a third party present is ridiculous on many levels.  I have a woman here in my home one day a week.  She cleans, does laundry etc., but we have hours where we have conversations.  We respect one another and nothing happens other than two people conversing about many things all decent.



We all draw our own lines of what is acceptable or unacceptable but it's always good to understand the possibilities and acknowledge the risks involved in our decisions.  It wasn't too long ago that people didn't think it was necessary to have a third party present when meeting with people like Charlie Rose, Matt Lauer, or Les Moonves. 

_"Nothing is ever a problem until it becomes a problem."_ - mathjak107


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## jujube (Jul 13, 2019)

gennie said:


> My take is - (1) he's so obsessed with his own good looks that he thinks he is irresistible to all women OR (2) he knows he lacks self control in the company of women.  My advice - bring on the burka



Yep, and he should be the one wearing that burqa.


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## Shalimar (Jul 13, 2019)

Oh yes.


jujube said:


> Yep, and he should be the one wearing that burqa.


Ohhh yes.


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## Sunny (Jul 13, 2019)

> Oh, and the last time I had an appointment with a male gynecologist, there was a female nurse in the room at all times.



Yes, that rule has been in use for many years now, at least in this country.  But that only applies to a specific type of exam, not to every interaction between two
people. As I asked before, what about the worker who comes to your house to fix something, do some painting,  etc.?  What about a man who has a cleaning lady come to the house? What about visiting a doctor or psychologist, for reasons other than a gynecological exam?  What about two people in a workplace setting?  What about having a female coworker?

And even if the other person is of one's own gender, how do you know they are not gay? What then? 

Do the excesses of the $MeToo movement really warrant insanity like this?  Should we just return to medieval times, or as someone has suggested already, let the Taliban determine how our lives are run?


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## Ronni (Jul 13, 2019)

Sunny said:


> What about a male doctor with a female patient?  Or a female doctor with a male patient?  What about a psychiatrist?  What about the fellow who fixes your washing machine or your air conditioning unit?  Must he bring along a "chaperone" on every job, just in case the woman is alone in the house?
> 
> This level of insanity could bring modern life to a screeching halt.



One of my very dearest friends was a male doctor...he passed away a few months ago sadly.  We even dated for a time, and were dance partners for years.  He was one of my favorite people.  

One of his unbreakable rules is that he was never alone in a room with a female patient with the door closed. NEVER.  He tried never to be alone with a female patient, period, but certainly never with the door closed.  He'd step out and ask one of his nurses in.  Occasionally he had a female patient who would close the door after he'd left it open, and he'd quietly re-open it.  If the patient required privacy he would always get a female nurse first.  

He said that he'd heard the stories from so many of his male counterparts of being accused of ****** harassment or other similar accusations that he was just never going to put himself in that position.  That perhaps he was being overly cautious, but he'd far prefer that to having to battle a lawsuit and it ruining his practice.

In this day and age, i don't think you CAN be too cautious.  We have become a litigious society, and that's very sad.


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## applecruncher (Jul 13, 2019)

@Ronni 

That's a shame, but understandable.


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## Sunny (Jul 13, 2019)

He sounds a bit paranoid to me, Ronni. 

Should lawyers, accountants, etc. also enforce this kind of rule? Must every human interaction be fraught with visions of sexuality, and (shudder) protecting oneself against sex-related accusations?

Sorry, to me this is an extreme example of overkill. By imposing such a rule on oneself or others, the person is _causing _everyone to keep thinking of, and fearing, ****** temptation, even when it is the farthest thing from the other person's mind.  Sort of like "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."  

So far, no one has answered my questions about all the other everyday situations where we might find ourselves alone with a person of the opposite sex.  How on earth can normal, modern life exist in a fearful environment like that?


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## gennie (Jul 13, 2019)

As often happens in today's society, paranoia overrules common sense.


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## treeguy64 (Jul 13, 2019)

Sunny said:


> He sounds a bit paranoid to me, Ronni.
> 
> Should lawyers, accountants, etc. also enforce this kind of rule? Must every human interaction be fraught with visions of sexuality, and (shudder) protecting oneself against sex-related accusations?
> 
> ...


I'll answer: YES.  We have become a litigious society, and the leeches out there, the #MeToo hustlers, have made it necessary to constantly be on guard. 

Yeah, ALWAYS have a third party present, if possible, when dealing with ANYONE, behind closed doors. 

I regularly pierced women in a closed exam room. Nipples, labia, clit hoods, I did it all. That was fourteen years ago. Now, given our present political climate, there's no way in hell I'd get back to that business, unless, in addition to my liability waiver, each client signed an additional agreement to never pursue legal against me for any perceived improper actions, of a ****** nature, on my part. 

I'm an ace contract writer, so I could make an agreement like that work, as tricky as the wording would be.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 13, 2019)

You can get carried away with the third party thing. I doubt that we would  want videos of our mothers giving affidavits, stating that they were about to have legally  consenting sex with our fathers. Yet, in the political arena, taking some precautions is prudent, while I think this particular candidate is using this as an "issue" for political gain.


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## Knight (Jul 13, 2019)

I think the reporter is doing what this guy was trying to avoid. Causing the politician problems he doesn't need. I come to this conclusion because in this thread there are various replies condemning the politician. Why condemn him? Just by her blowing this out of proportion, if I were a suspicious guy I could easily suspect the reporter of being ready to claim inappropriate behavior by this politician. 

If anything having an agreement with his wife shows strength of character & commitment to their marriage.


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## Knight (Jul 13, 2019)

From the article

Foster’s stance has been adopted by other married men in public life, and has sometimes been called “the Billy Graham rule.” Vice President Mike Pence has made a point of not having a meal with an unaccompanied woman. Even men without a public reputation to defend, such as business executives, have adopted it as a precaution to avoid the risk of a false accusation of making a ****** advance. But it has led to a backlash on the part of women who contend that it hinders them professionally — in holding meetings or in seeking mentoring from men.

How many posting here are seeking political office?
How many expect to be vice president someday?
How many here have a high paying position to defend?

In today's litigious society is there anyone posting here that could have their lively hood ruined by an allegation really not going to take precautions to keep that from happening? This isn't about everyday people that have nothing to lose if accused. Best example I can think about
Would there be national media coverage if AZ Jim was accused by his cleaning lady? Other that AZ Jim Would anyone care? 

I applaud this couple for not fearing what society thinks about how trusting each other and not trusting a person of the opposite sex works in their marriage.


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## Sunny (Jul 13, 2019)

Knight, you can applaud all you like, and since it is (still) a free country, people can run their marriage any way that suits both of them.

But, being that this guy is a Republican candidate for governor in a red state, I wonder how sincere any of this nonsense is, and how much is just pandering to his "Christian" base?


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## Olivia (Jul 13, 2019)

What's happening here now is that men are paying for what other men have been doing for a long time and getting away with it because women were not believed. If your fellow men have always behaved toward women with respect then there wouldn't have had to come to this type of paranoia, and it is crazy sad.


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## C'est Moi (Jul 13, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Knight, you can applaud all you like, and since it is (still) a free country, people can run their marriage any way that suits both of them.
> 
> But, being that this guy is a Republican candidate for governor in a red state, I wonder how sincere any of this nonsense is, and how much is just pandering to his "Christian" base?



No need to apply your own bias to this man's character.   Adding politics to the discussion will only get the thread closed.   As you said, it's still a free country, though there are those who are working hard to end that freedom.


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## win231 (Jul 13, 2019)

raybar said:


> "Foster pointed out that he is a married man and that he made an agreement with his wife, in observance of his Christian faith, that neither of them could “be alone with someone of the opposite sex throughout our marriage.”"
> 
> Does this include his own mother? How about a daughter? What about her father, brothers, cousins, her pastor?



I didn't know it was a "Christian" thing; I've heard of it with Orthodox people.  My sister was friends with an Orthodox woman.  I learned quite a bit of nonsensical restrictions from her - on the Sabbath - can't lock or unlock anything, turn off the gas pilot on everything, no driving, no phone, can't tear paper, can't touch (hug or shake hands) with anyone who's not Orthodox, can't be alone with opposite sex unless they're related.

I had fun teasing her about constantly hugging me and being alone with me; I asked her if she has to atone & ask forgiveness from her Rabbi for each  violation.  I guess she found me irresistible.....LOL!


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## treeguy64 (Jul 13, 2019)

win231 said:


> I didn't know it was a "Christian" thing; I've heard of it with Orthodox people.  My sister was friends with an Orthodox woman.  I learned quite a bit of nonsensical restrictions from her - on the Sabbath - can't lock or unlock anything, turn off the gas pilot on everything, no driving, no phone, can't tear paper, can't touch (hug or shake hands) with anyone who's not Orthodox, can't be alone with opposite sex unless they're related.
> 
> I had fun teasing her about constantly hugging me and being alone with me; I asked her if she has to atone & ask forgiveness from her Rabbi for each  violation.  I guess she found me irresistible.....LOL!


Can't see the humor, here. What may seem "nonsensical," to you, is a core belief of Orthodox Jewish folks.


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## C'est Moi (Jul 13, 2019)

People make fun of things they don't understand.


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## RadishRose (Jul 13, 2019)

Which "Orthodox"?

Jewish, Russian, Greek, etc.


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## Trade (Jul 13, 2019)

Sunny said:


> I wonder how sincere any of this nonsense is, and how much is just pandering to his "Christian" base?



I am 99 and 44/100th percent sure that's his motivation.


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## Knight (Jul 13, 2019)

Since what if's are a large part of all the responses. What if a male brought along by the reporter would be a co conspirator to an allegation of ****** misconduct? Wouldn't a no ride along be the best rule for his truck & his rules.


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## rgp (Jul 13, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Sorry, I'm dissenting, here. The #MeToo movement has ruined lives by making claims, without any proof, whatsoever. If I were in situations where women were going to be closely following me, I would insist on having an observer along, at all times. I don't believe this guy is nuts. I think he's very realistic, and cautious. We're living in very odd times, ladies and gentlemen.




 I agree here.......


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## Olivia (Jul 13, 2019)

There would be no "MeToo"  movement if none of those MeToo stuff ever happened. And that's the rub. You believe it or not and that's going to determine what you feel about it. I worked for a male boss for over 30 years off and on, and I never had a MeToo moment with him. However I worked in a department with someone who talked like a pig, I don't understand to this day why some men get a kick out of that.  And we women did call on him on it. but never tried to ruin him. Just tried to explain to him why that was not cool. The only thing that worked was in around 1992 there was a lot of reporting about how men like that made Human Resources get down to business about stopping that type of behavior. And only because of law suits. 

There are women who do try to take advantage, especially in the work place people start to date then if one or the other wants to break it off, there is trouble. And it's usually the woman who has the problem. My dad had to go to court for that kind of thing because he was a supervisor in that kind of environment. The woman lost. So, anyway, men and women should each be careful, and stop the blame game. Watch your own behavior and be real and honest with yourself.


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## win231 (Jul 13, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> Which "Orthodox"?
> 
> Jewish, Russian, Greek, etc.



She's Orthodox Jewish.  Ya know, I'm Jewish only because my parents were; I'm not religious, but I do find some customs of exaggerations of religion (like those I mentioned) rather amusing.  Also amusing is how many people (of all religions) who practice the more serious versions will violate the rules that are difficult & inconvenient to follow.
Sorta reminds me of some vegetarians who say they sometimes eat meat...


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## Olivia (Jul 13, 2019)

I knew I was Jewish but I only recently found out I was Ashkenazi Jewish, 10%. I don't understand the low percent because my mom's mom was 100 percent Jewish. But there could have been mixes in the past, and probably so.

The reason I'm posting this is because one can be ethnically Jewish without being religiously in the Jewish faith. My mother wasn't and neither am I.


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## Linda (Jul 13, 2019)

The more a man is in the public eye the more he should make sure he isn't alone with a non relative female.  And I wonder why this reporter wanted so bad to be alone with him.  Lots of pigs out there who need to be taken down but there are also a lot of innocent men and women who have had their lives majorly messed up by lies.  Sometimes it's not just financial gain they are after, there are a lot of drama kings and queens out there too.


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## Sunny (Jul 14, 2019)

Here's a sidebar about the Orthodox Jewish aspect of this. Recently I discovered some fascinating TV series on two of the TV streaming channels, produced and acted in Israel. They are in Hebrew, but have nice, clear translation captions. 

One of them is called Shtisel, broadcast on Netflix. It's about a super-orthodox, Hasidic family living in Jerusalem, very well written and acted. These are the people who dress the way they did in European ghettos hundreds of years ago (men in black suits, always with hats, curls in front of their ears, etc.; women in "modest" dresses, and after they are married, always in wigs when out in public.)

The young man who is the main character is the son of a rabbi who is the principal of a religious school. The son trained as a rabbi, but wants to be an artist. He's a very good artist, from the "works" they show. Meets with opposition, of course. He's a very likable character, and I really felt sorry for him. I had to keep reminding myself that this is just a story, not a documentary!

To me, one of the most interesting parts is the interaction between men and women in this segment of society. They are not allowed to be alone together, ever, in any circumstances. Marriages are arranged by the families, but the young people do get to meet each other for dates in restaurants to see if they like each other. If there is no objection, they are married and expected to start producing children.

Another show, which I enjoyed even more, is called Srugim, broadcast on Amazon Prime. It's about the modern orthodox in Israel, who have regular careers, and dress like everyone else in the modern world. But they are bound by certain rules of ****** conduct also. All of these young people, educated and pretty "hip" in every other respect, actually remain virgins until they are married! I don't remember if they have the strict prohibition about men and women being alone together.

When I read about the politicians who announce that they will not be alone with a woman other than their wife, it reminded me of these orthodox Jews. So it isn't only "Christians" who follow this. 

I'm not sure, in the case of the politicians who announce this policy, if they really mean they are never alone in any circumstances with a woman, or if they only mean no eating out, etc., in other words, social interactions. There's a big difference between taking someone out to a nightclub, and having a friendly conversation with your cleaning lady.


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## rgp (Jul 14, 2019)

Olivia said:


> There would be no "MeToo"  movement if none of those MeToo stuff ever happened. And that's the rub. You believe it or not and that's going to determine what you feel about it. I worked for a male boss for over 30 years off and on, and I never had a MeToo moment with him. However I worked in a department with someone who talked like a pig, I don't understand to this day why some men get a kick out of that.  And we women did call on him on it. but never tried to ruin him. Just tried to explain to him why that was not cool. The only thing that worked was in around 1992 there was a lot of reporting about how men like that made Human Resources get down to business about stopping that type of behavior. And only because of law suits.
> 
> There are women who do try to take advantage, especially in the work place people start to date then if one or the other wants to break it off, there is trouble. And it's usually the woman who has the problem. My dad had to go to court for that kind of thing because he was a supervisor in that kind of environment. The woman lost. So, anyway, men and women should each be careful, and stop the blame game. Watch your own behavior and be real and honest with yourself.




 Well I do not believe [most] of it. Particularly the claims of abuse, date rape, etc. When these claims are months,years, even decades old.


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## gennie (Jul 14, 2019)

I read in another article that the length of time requested by the reporter was a 'follow-around" for 15 hours.  That length of time would cover a couple of meals and a lot of what is considered to be personal time.  That amount of time seems excessive to me, more of a 'I want to get to know you *really, really* well' rather than a simple interview.  I question her motive for wanting so much continuous one on one time.


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## AnnieA (Jul 14, 2019)

So far I don't think anyone has mentioned in the thread that the female reporter wanted to ride along with the candidate on a 15 hour trip.

I'd never heard the "Billy Graham Rule" called that until this story, but it's one I've pretty much followed as a single woman.  I've had married male colleagues that I enjoyed spending time with through the years and set boundaries on how I interacted with them ...no lunches alone, no chatty phone calls.   I still don't private message married men friends on fb, forums or send texts unless asking a specific question and ending it there.  That's been as much to protect myself from a crush on a married friend as much as it is showing respect to his marriage and wife.   I decided to set those boundaries in my early 20s when a married coworker and I did have a strong attraction to one another that was so obvious we were teased about it.  We set those rules, enjoyed our friendship at work and I decided to stick to them through the years.  In the 30+ years since, I've seen workplace and internet relationships end marriages in a messy manner, so have never regretted having those boundaries in place.

Maybe it's a Mississippi or Deep South thing...  I doubt I'll vote for Foster for reasons other than this, but I do understand his choice and respect it.

Excerpt from CBS story



> Mississippi Today journalist Larrison Campbell said she requested to accompany candidate Robert Foster on a 15-hour "ride along" campaign trip ahead of the August 6 primary, but was denied because she is a woman.


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## StarSong (Jul 14, 2019)

rgp said:


> Well I do not believe [most] of it. Particularly the claims of abuse, date rape, etc. When these claims are months,years, even decades old.



I do believe most of it.  ****** abuse is a deeply shameful experience and memory to the victim.  That person often confides in a close friend or relative at the time, but it takes a long time to process the experience sufficiently before being able to publicly "come out" about it.  Very little is gained other than exposing a perpetrator so that he/she won't be given an opportunity to continue the predatory behavior.  

Obviously there are some who are falsely accused, and their accusers should be prosecuted. However, just as with general assaults, theft, robbery, murder and other crimes, we don't allow occasional false accusations to deter us from following up on the mostly true accusations. In other words, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Given that nearly all rapes and unwanted ****** aggression comes from men, it begs the question of why women are restricted because of it. Perhaps it's time for men to don the burkas and to be chaperoned at all times.

Maybe Foster could compromise with a rule that ALL reporters who want to ride along must be accompanied by a third party. Equal access.


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## Liberty (Jul 14, 2019)

Actually Billy Graham was reported to have said the same thing.  Pretty smart thinking if you ask me, folks.


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## Sunny (Jul 14, 2019)

> That amount of time seems excessive to me, more of a 'I want to get to know you *really, really* well' rather than a simple interview.  I question her motive for wanting so much continuous one on one time.



Gemma, I guess whether this is "excessive" or not depends on whether male reporters request the same amount of time.  And what if the candidate was a woman? Would that amount of time also be excessive?  In other words, what is typical for this type of news reporting?


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## Uptosnuff (Jul 14, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Knight, you can applaud all you like, and since it is (still) a free country, people can run their marriage any way that suits both of them.
> 
> But, being that this guy is a Republican candidate for governor in a red state, I wonder how sincere any of this nonsense is, and how much is just pandering to his "Christian" base?


I thought the "no politics" rule was supposed to be enforced here.  This is the second or third post I've seen from various people on this thread that have been political.  What gives?


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## AnnieA (Jul 14, 2019)

Uptosnuff said:


> I thought the "no politics" rule was supposed to be enforced here.  This is the second or third post I've seen from various people on this thread that have been political.  What gives?




A few of those are lazy, stereotyping sorts of comments without much substance.  Pretty much typical of partisans.


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## rgp (Jul 14, 2019)

StarSong said:


> I do believe most of it.  ****** abuse is a deeply shameful experience and memory to the victim.  That person often confides in a close friend or relative at the time, but it takes a long time to process the experience sufficiently before being able to publicly "come out" about it.  Very little is gained other than exposing a perpetrator so that he/she won't be given an opportunity to continue the predatory behavior.
> 
> Obviously there are some who are falsely accused, and their accusers should be prosecuted. However, just as with general assaults, theft, robbery, murder and other crimes, we don't allow occasional false accusations to deter us from following up on the mostly true accusations. In other words, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
> 
> ...



" ****** abuse is a deeply shameful experience and memory to the victim. "


   Exactly what [IS] ****** abuse ? I have heard it described anywhere from an unwanted touch/caress of the breast or maybe buttocks, to a statement , along the lines of [have sex with me or??] Now, how exactly is that proven ? Should we just take the accusers word ? I refuse to.

 Show me a bruise, some sign of battery. But sheer accusation ? ...... I don't think so.

 IMO, [some] of the shameful comes from them having consensual sex, then regretting it. Or ...... it didn't bring the results, second date/promotion, or ? that the "victim" was hoping for.


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## treeguy64 (Jul 14, 2019)

Olivia said:


> There would be no "MeToo"  movement if none of those MeToo stuff ever happened. *And that's the rub. (Emphasis mine) *SNIP!



An unbelievably bad choice of words???


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## gennie (Jul 14, 2019)

I don't mean to denigrate my own sex but it is a known fact that some women either through immaturity or  low self-esteem get their jollies by trying to arouse men.  Intelligent men avoid them.  

Mother Nature made the male sex easy to compromise.


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## StarSong (Jul 14, 2019)

Wow.  Talk about blaming the victims.  I'm out of this conversation.


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## rgp (Jul 14, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Wow.  Talk about blaming the victims.  I'm out of this conversation.




 When there is no evidence, there is no victim. Again, when it is an accusation of an event/assault that took place "sometime" ago, all we have is that accusers word. That does not make them a victim. Only an accuser.

Are there any men in your life ? Any at all ? Do you want these men's lives ruined, reputation ruined, job lost.....or worse,  incarcerated on nothing more than the word  of a person ? No evidence , no proof, nothing....just the accusation.


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## Olivia (Jul 14, 2019)

Treeguy's snip:


> There would be no "MeToo" movement if none of those MeToo stuff ever happened. *And that's the rub. (Emphasis mine) *SNIP!





treeguy64 said:


> An unbelievably bad choice of words???



What you do in private is your business, Treeguy. And before my answer annoys you, just remember you brought it up. Rub all you want.


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## Olivia (Jul 14, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Wow.  Talk about blaming the victims.  I'm out of this conversation.



Yes, indeed. Me, too. (haha) Goes to show growing older doesn't make one smarter or wiser. Same old, same old crap thinking.


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## win231 (Jul 14, 2019)

Unfortunately, many women make false claims of both ****** abuse and domestic violence.  They do it to get back at men.  In some cases, men have spent time in prison.  And women who do this are never prosecuted.
I almost experienced that firsthand 30 years ago, but I learned from it.  I was with a group of friends in a restaurant.  One of them was a woman who drank too much.  I didn't want her driving home, because I've seen what drunk drivers are capable of, so I offered to drive her & also come back the next day to pick up her car from the restaurant parking lot.
After a mile or so, she grabbed an umbrella from the back seat, opened it & put it across her chest, mumbling, "I know you're trying something."  She got louder & louder & started screaming about rape.  By the time we got to her parent's apartment, she had torn her blouse & scratched her chest & arms.  It was around 2:00am & people were coming out of their apartments to see what the racket was about.
Luckily, her parents were quite familiar with her drinking.  They came outside, thanked me & dragged her into their apartment.

If police had been called, I wouldn't have blamed them for arresting me; it looked pretty bad.  I could have ended up in jail or with a ****** assault conviction; many men have.  Even if I was found not guilty, the legal fees would have bankrupted me.
I learned a very important lesson that night.  NEVER let a drunk woman in my car!  And NEVER help anyone.

Re:  Domestic Abuse:  A buddy of mine--married 4 years & had 2 young kids--spent 6 days in jail because after a verbal argument, his wife called police & claimed her husband hit her.  When police arrived, she showed them a bruise she received the day before when she slipped & fell in the kitchen.  They arrested her husband & after 6 days in jail, she admitted she made it up.
I don't even want to think of what I'd do if a woman caused me to spend one minute in jail with a lie.
The divorce cost him more than the bail & attorney fees.  He's a computer programmer & made good money.

Yeah....and during my divorce hearing, my wife claimed I threatened to shoot her brother & her parents.  Today, that would likely cost me every gun I own.  She also testified (under oath) that I "Picked her up & threw her onto a sofa."  Well, that sorta backfired on her.  In my defense, I had to testify:  "Your Honor, she weighs 210 lbs.  How could anyone pick her up & throw her anywhere?"


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 14, 2019)

"In today's litigious society is there anyone posting here that could have their lively hood ruined by an allegation really not going to take precautions to keep that from happening? "
Yeah. I was. I was a Registered Nurse. It didn't bother me when I was alone with an alert female patient, but being alone with an unresponsive female patient bothered the hell out of me. Some people are freaked out by the "male nurse" thing.  You tell me how you can PROVE you didn't DO anything?  Female nurses don't need  permission to be in delivery room, male nurses usually do.


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## Sunny (Jul 14, 2019)

Most of the time, where there's smoke, there's fire, rgp.  Poor Bill Cosby, wrongly accused by all those evil women out to get him? If he only insisted on having his wife with him at all times, he wouldn't be in prison now, right?

Yes, there have been a few bad apples among the female accusers. But I suspect that 99% of the time, the "accusers" are courageous women who are simply telling what happened to them.  Decent men don't go through life being wrongly accused, and they don't need a chaperone.


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## Trade (Jul 14, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Some people are freaked out by the "male nurse" thing.



Yeah, the last time I was in the hospital I had an attractive female nurse put in a catheter and I didn't mind her touching my private parts at all, but I didn't feel the same way about the male nurse that came in and shaved that area.


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## Gary O' (Jul 14, 2019)

Trade said:


> Yeah, the last time I was in the hospital I had an attractive female nurse put in a catheter and I didn't mind her touching my private parts at all, but I didn't feel the same way about the male nurse that came in and shaved that area.


Too damn funny, but true. I had the same experience


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## C'est Moi (Jul 14, 2019)

Olivia said:


> Yes, indeed. Me, too. (haha) Goes to show growing older doesn't make one smarter or wiser. Same old, same old crap thinking.


Same old name calling when the argument doesn't go our way.


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## C'est Moi (Jul 14, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Most of the time, where there's smoke, there's fire, rgp.  Poor Bill Cosby, wrongly accused by all those evil women out to get him?* If he only insisted on having his wife with him at all times, he wouldn't be in prison now, right?*


  LOL.   I'd venture to say that he probably wouldn't.


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## Olivia (Jul 14, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> Same old name calling when the argument doesn't go our way.



You're right. I didn't need to say that because folks who think that two people of the opposite sex can't be in a room together without the woman planning to ruin the guy's reputation doesn't need me to say anything more. And I don't understand why it's you to decide which way any argument is going.


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## rgp (Jul 14, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Most of the time, where there's smoke, there's fire, rgp.  Poor Bill Cosby, wrongly accused by all those evil women out to get him? If he only insisted on having his wife with him at all times, he wouldn't be in prison now, right?
> 
> Yes, there have been a few bad apples among the female accusers. But I suspect that 99% of the time, the "accusers" are courageous women who are simply telling what happened to them.  Decent men don't go through life being wrongly accused, and they don't need a chaperone.



"Poor Bill Cosby, wrongly accused by all those evil women out to get him? If he only insisted on having his wife with him at all times, he wouldn't be in prison now, right?"

  First off, true he likely would not be....

  Second, OK, you believe the majority of them, I do not. You may be right , but without evidence how can we [society] punish them on the public stage or worse prosecute them in the legal system ?

 I posted before about this very thing happening to a close friend of mine. He was accused of ****** advances / ****** abuse  by a 14 yr/old [daughter of a girlfriend] it looked like he was going to loose. All innuendo/accusation nothing more. The girl then just broke down [in court] and admitted that her mother put her up to it, and concocted the whole thing. [because my friend would not marry her]. Case was dismissed, charges dropped......but my friend's life was never the same.


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## rgp (Jul 14, 2019)

Olivia said:


> Yes, indeed. Me, too. (haha) Goes to show growing older doesn't make one smarter or wiser. Same old, same old crap thinking.




 Well if true ?.....it's a two way street.


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## win231 (Jul 14, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Most of the time, where there's smoke, there's fire, rgp.  Poor Bill Cosby, wrongly accused by all those evil women out to get him? If he only insisted on having his wife with him at all times, he wouldn't be in prison now, right?
> 
> Yes, there have been a few bad apples among the female accusers. But I suspect that 99% of the time, the "accusers" are courageous women who are simply telling what happened to them.  Decent men don't go through life being wrongly accused, and they don't need a chaperone.




"99% of the time, women are telling the truth?"  Suggestion:  climb aboard that ship & fly back to the planet earth.


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## rgp (Jul 14, 2019)

win231 said:


> "99% of the time, women are telling the truth?"  Suggestion:  climb aboard that ship & fly back to the planet earth.




LOL!! Yeah just ask any of them what they weigh......and about half of them how old they are............


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## Olivia (Jul 14, 2019)

rgp said:


> LOL!! Yeah just ask any of them what they weigh......and about half of them how old they are............



And I gave up cable news for this? LMAO


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## C'est Moi (Jul 14, 2019)

Olivia said:


> You're right. I didn't need to say that because folks who think that two people of the opposite sex can't be in a room together without the woman planning to ruin the guy's reputation doesn't need me to say anything more. And I don't understand why it's you to decide which way any argument is going.


I "decided" nothing.   I can read.


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## Sunny (Jul 14, 2019)

Guess I'd better clarify. The 99% of the time I was referring to was telling the truth about unwanted ****** advances, not about their weight or anything else!


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## rgp (Jul 14, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Guess I'd better clarify. The 99% of the time I was referring to was telling the truth about unwanted ****** advances, not about their weight or anything else!




 Has everybody lost their sense of humor.....???


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## Trade (Jul 14, 2019)

https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=297
 It would appear that the number of falsely accused dudes is far exceeded by the number of dudes that get away with it.  

*



Myths about false accusation 

Click to expand...

*


> _Myths: “Lots of women cry rape when they regret sex.”_
> _“Women accuse celebrities and athletes of rape all the time for money and attention.”
> “The definition of ‘rape’ is so loose these days – women can claim anything is rape and get away with it.”
> “They didn’t have enough evidence to prosecute, so she was probably lying.”
> ...


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## Giantsfan1954 (Jul 14, 2019)

Very common position in Christian Faith's,I am most familiar with Baptists.
A friend's son in law is a Baptist pastor and his wife goes with him whenever he has any interactions with a female including counseling or some type of emergency.
I totally agree with the OP,that trust seems to be a missing piece.
It's been a practice around long before the # me too movement.


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## DaveA (Jul 14, 2019)

Political grandstanding at it's best.  Same with the VP.  it appeals to a certain group but just do or don't do it.  No need to announce it with trumpets blaring.  Pitiful if this is the state of our elected (or hope to be elected) officials.

StarSong said it best - -Let's not let them be alone in discussions with lobbyists and donors.  That's where the biggest crimes are being committed and we as a nation are suffering for it.


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## fmdog44 (Jul 15, 2019)

Today we are guilty by rumor instead of proof. Just putting out a known lie can and does destroy careers.


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## rgp (Jul 15, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> Today we are guilty by rumor instead of proof. Just putting out a known lie can and does destroy careers.




  What is it Clarence Darrow said ?..........it is far better to set free 10 guilty , than to incarcerate one innocent.

  Not a quote, but close.......and very true.


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## Sunny (Jul 15, 2019)

> Political grandstanding at it's best.  Same with the VP.  it appeals to a certain group but just do or don't do it.  No need to announce it with trumpets blaring.  Pitiful if this is the state of our elected (or hope to be elected) officials.
> 
> StarSong said it best - -Let's not let them be alone in discussions with lobbyists and donors.  That's where the biggest crimes are being committed and we as a nation are suffering for it.




Very well put, Dave!


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## CarolfromTX (Jul 28, 2019)

If the reporter in question were to make an accusation -- "he touched me inappropriately" -- we are practically required by the political correct media to believe her, no proof required. Would you feel the same way if the politician in question were Muslim? Would you even post it?


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## StarSong (Jul 28, 2019)

Without getting too political, I believe that if this politician were Muslim and his religious tenets demanded he not be alone with a woman, the far right Christian community would be unlikely to support him or rally around his cause.


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## treeguy64 (Jul 28, 2019)

Olivia said:


> Treeguy's snip:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Annoys me? It was a joke. Lighten up, eh?

I "brought it up?"  You're doing this on purpose, right? You're a frustrated comedy writer, no?


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## Shalimar (Jul 28, 2019)

Here we are in 2019,and women are still on trial. No bruises, no belief? Don’t trust myself to behave kindly today after my bad news, so time to exit this thread.


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## MeAgain (Jul 28, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Without getting too political, I believe that if this politician were Muslim and his religious tenets demanded he not be alone with a woman, the far right Christian community would be unlikely to support him or rally around his cause.




Looks like you got both religion and politics into one sentence ,nice going.
But don't worry too much about those Christians , the muslims have plenty of leftest on their side to protect them .


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## StarSong (Jul 28, 2019)

MeAgain said:


> Looks like you got both religion and politics into one sentence ,nice going.
> But don't worry too much about those Christians , the muslims have plenty of leftest on their side to protect them .


It is not my intention to dis Christians, but rather to point out that I doubt most would rally around a Muslim who asserted the same beliefs.


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## MeAgain (Jul 28, 2019)

That is a very wise man who didn't let that radical ride with him. She showed her true colors in the interview. She also may have had bad intentions since it may have been a long time since a real man would lay down with her.


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## rgp (Jul 28, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> Here we are in 2019,and women are still on trial. No bruises, no belief? Don’t trust myself to behave kindly today after my bad news, so time to exit this thread.




 You may not see this since you are exiting ? But why should [we] believe anyone without some sort of proof/evidence? And why is it, that it must always be the female that is to be believed? ........ Particularly when it is sometimes years later. 

 I'll ask you the same question I have asked others in the past. Do you have male loved ones in your life? Would you want them to face [perhaps] years of incarceration on an empty / no evidence accusation ?


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## MeAgain (Jul 28, 2019)

StarSong said:


> It is not my intention to dis Christians, but rather to point out that I doubt most would rally around a Muslim who asserted the same beliefs.




Apples and oranges. If a muslim refused, not one lib would have a problem with it. I don't really care I don't care for politicians nor do I vote for past 20 years. Meet the new boos same as the old boss,imo.


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## StarSong (Jul 28, 2019)

Now I remember why I left before.  This showed up on New Posts, not on threads I follow. My mistake.


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## Shalimar (Jul 28, 2019)

rgp said:


> You may not see this since you are exiting ? But why should [we] believe anyone without some sort of proof/evidence? And why is it, that it must always be the female that is to be believed? ........ Particularly when it is sometimes years later.
> 
> I'll ask you the same question I have asked others in the past. Do you have male loved ones in your life? Would you want them to face [perhaps] years of incarceration on an empty / no evidence accusation ?


Not to debate this topic further, but out of curiosity, are you aware that Sifuphil just died? I am in mourning, and your comments are harsh. Have a good day.


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## AnnieA (Jul 28, 2019)

rgp said:


> You may not see this since you are exiting ? But why should [we] believe anyone without some sort of proof/evidence? And why is it, that it must always be the female that is to be believed? ........ Particularly when it is sometimes years later.
> 
> I'll ask you the same question I have asked others in the past. Do you have male loved ones in your life? Would you want them to face [perhaps] years of incarceration on an empty / no evidence accusation ?




As a woman, I 100% agree.  I've seen two narcissistic women in my real life circle make false accusations when angry.  More who stopped just short.  They're the women who will ride the coattails of the Me Too movement and eventually make it irrelevant. 


And, God forbid, what are we teaching our young girls with the believe-all-accusers-just-because-they-say-so mindset?

High School Girls Admitted to Making False ****** Assault Accusations Against a Male Student Because They 'Just Don't Like Him"



.


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