# Do you see the logic?



## Scottlass1953 (May 26, 2020)




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## Rosemarie (May 26, 2020)

You're just splitting hairs. Masks are to protect against coughs and sneezes. Social distancing is about not actually touching strangers.
If anyone still has to be told that, they must have been asleep for the past few months!


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## rgp (May 26, 2020)

If a fart can get through underwear & Levi's ...... What chance does a thin piece of cloth have at stopping a sneeze ?


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## Aunt Marg (May 26, 2020)

Scottlass1953 said:


> View attachment 106838


Definitely encourages one to ponder...


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## Aunt Marg (May 26, 2020)




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## Judycat (May 26, 2020)

These things only work in part, but together we are safer. Ooh sounds like a sappy slogan. I'd add some mask-wearing stick figures, a sun and some hearts.


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## Camper6 (May 26, 2020)

Above all social distancing works the best because it has met the test of time in all communicable diseases.

Diseases can still spread but not as much as if close contact was allowed.  That's why they tell you if you have a cold or the flu, stay home and don't spread it to others.

You can stand in line to vote and it has already been done successfully.


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## StarSong (May 26, 2020)

Yeah because epidemiologists have a larger agenda.  Perhaps they're all members of the Illuminati.  

p.s. Of course we CAN all stand in line to vote. The point is that we don't NEED to do so. Voting by mail has been highly successful in many US states for a long time now.


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## Sunny (May 26, 2020)

The last line on that poster is puzzling. "Because it's not about the virus, it never was?"

What then, pray tell, is it about?


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## Aunt Bea (May 26, 2020)

Sunny said:


> The last line on that poster is puzzling. "Because it's not about the virus, it never was?"
> 
> What then, pray tell, is it about?


I agree if it's not about the virus what is it about?


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## gennie (May 26, 2020)

That's right.  It is NOT about the virus.  It's about preventing its spread.  Those not interested in preventing the spread should never do any of these things. 

Until there is absolute certainty about all features of this virus, responsible people will do all they can to prevent its spread.

To infer otherwise is illogical.


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## Em in Ohio (May 26, 2020)

rgp said:


> If a fart can get through underwear & Levi's ...... What chance does a thin piece of cloth have at stopping a sneeze ?


The cloth helps stop droplets.  Just don't let go of juicy farts.


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## fmdog44 (May 26, 2020)

It is amazing how many professional medical scientists are on this forum. Wearing masks is dumb I know because I mopped my kitchen floor last week.


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## CarolfromTX (May 26, 2020)

I agree that there is a not so hidden agenda here. Some states have opened the beaches but not the churches. You don't have to be a scientist to see the inconsistencies of many of these rulings. All this was never about protecting people. And voting by mail? Absolutely fraud proof, right? Nope, nope, nope.

Not to mention, some states keep moving the goal posts. First it was one month. Then is was the middle of May, and now some states want to wait until June or even July. They are bankrupting small businesses -- barbers, restaurants, Mom and Pop shops can't afford to stay home forever.


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## Camper6 (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Yeah because epidemiologists have a larger agenda.  Perhaps they're all members of the Illuminati.
> 
> p.s. Of course we CAN all stand in line to vote. The point is that we don't NEED to do so. Voting by mail has been highly successful in many US states for a long time now.


Yes I know but some political parties are opposing mail in votes because they claim they are prone to tampering with the vote.


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## StarSong (May 26, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> Yes I know but some political parties are opposing mail in votes because they claim they are prone to tampering with the vote.


I've seen zero actual evidence offered that proves voting by mail has a concerning level of fraud.  

Absentee ballots have been available in the US for over 100 years and are used by US troops, ex-pats, some elderly, some disabled folks, and people who are traveling during election day.


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## Becky1951 (May 26, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> I agree that there is a not so hidden agenda here. Some states have opened the beaches but not the churches. You don't have to be a scientist to see the inconsistencies of many of these rulings. All this was never about protecting people. And voting by mail? Absolutely fraud proof, right? Nope, nope, nope.
> 
> Not to mention, some states keep moving the goal posts. First it was one month. Then is was the middle of May, and now some states want to wait until June or even July. They are bankrupting small businesses -- barbers, restaurants, Mom and Pop shops can't afford to stay home forever.


Beaches are outside, whereas churches people are inside so greater risk for spreading this virus.


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## Knight (May 26, 2020)

Case & death count keep increasing. No count or info on those that took every precaution so maybe those that  take precautions are not part of the body count. A saying comes to mind.  Better safe than sorry. I've gotten pretty used to getting up in the morning so I'll take what ever advice is given to be able continue that routine.


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## Camper6 (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I've seen zero actual evidence offered that proves voting by mail has a concerning level of fraud.
> 
> Absentee ballots have been available in the US for over 100 years and are used by US troops, ex-pats, some elderly, some disabled folks, and people who are traveling during election day.


There must be a political reason or the complaints wouldn't have been lodged.


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## Sunny (May 26, 2020)

Mail-in ballots are tampering with the vote?  As opposed to what?

Gerrymandering voting districts?
Deliberately sending "certain" voters to the wrong place to vote?
Giving those same people incorrect or misleading instructions about voter registration?
Creating crowded conditions, long lines, inconvenient hours for voting?

And, this year, maximizing exposure to coronavirus, hoping many will be afraid to go to the polls?

All of the above have already been used by those who want to cheat people out of their right to vote.  And citing "tampering" with mail-in ballots by the same people who have done all of the above?!   A new definition of chutzpah!


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## win231 (May 26, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> Beaches are outside, whereas churches people are inside so greater risk for spreading this virus.


That doesn't fly, either.  Here, they allowed flower shops to open on Mother's Day.  Is the virus considerate & wouldn't infect anyone on Mother's Day?  And markets are indoors; why is it OK to have many people shopping with narrow aisles where 6 ft distancing is impossible?
Thinking people recognize B.S.  Sheep don't.


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## CarolfromTX (May 26, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> Beaches are outside, whereas churches people are inside so greater risk for spreading this virus.


And have you seen the pictures of the beaches? Not much social distancing going on. The big Baptist church here has marked off their pews, much like those footprints you see in the grocery stores. They are going to continue livestreaming services for at-risk folk. I think using the inside vs. outside thing is just an excuse. My opinion. 

The truth is, there is very little social distancing going on out there, and hasn't been for some time. Personally, I'm going to wear a mask when I can, keep my distance when I can, and wash or sanitize my hands a lot. We had to go to the bank today to deposit some checks. We went thru the drive-thru, Dave sanitized afterwards. 

I'm feeling a lot less manic about this. The cure is becoming worse than the disease.


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## oldman (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I've seen zero actual evidence offered that proves voting by mail has a concerning level of fraud.
> 
> Absentee ballots have been available in the US for over 100 years and are used by US troops, ex-pats, some elderly, some disabled folks, and people who are traveling during election day.


This is true, however, I think there are requirements to get a ballot and in some states one of the requirements is to have an ID. I really don't have a clue how it all works, but I do know that the people at the voting registration office just doesn't hand anyone a ballot. If that were the case, I could walk in in a hundred times and get a ballot and then sit down with a phone book and do the deed, if you know what I mean. I think this is where the worry comes in that some states may change their rules in which to acquire a mail in ballot and then all of a sudden, they have more people voting than registered and then what do we do? 

To me, at least, I'm a Libertarian, so I have no dog in this fight.


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## Becky1951 (May 26, 2020)

So inside or outside isn't the problem. Not Social distancing and masks use is IMO. I assumed those making the decision to open various area's were basing it on open area's verses closed spaces.  ???  But I'm just as confused as everyone else is..


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## asp3 (May 26, 2020)

win231 said:


> That doesn't fly, either.  Here, they allowed flower shops to open on Mother's Day.  Is the virus considerate & wouldn't infect anyone on Mother's Day?  And markets are indoors; why is it OK to have many people shopping with narrow aisles where 6 ft distancing is impossible?
> Thinking people recognize B.S.  Sheep don't.



I'm somewhat offended that you are implying that those of us who have read about the reasons for masks and social distancing and decided they make sense to us are sheep accepting BS and not thinking people.  You and I obviously come to different conclusions with what we've read and heard about the virus and means of reducing it's impact.  There is no need to disparage other people because they disagree with you.


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## C'est Moi (May 26, 2020)

oldman said:


> This is true, however, I think there are requirements to get a ballot and *in some states one of the requirements is to have an ID. *I really don't have a clue how it all works, but I do know that the people at the voting registration office just doesn't hand anyone a ballot. If that were the case, I could walk in in a hundred times and get a ballot and then sit down with a phone book and do the deed, if you know what I mean. I think this is where the worry comes in that some states may change their rules in which to acquire a mail in ballot and then all of a sudden, they have more people voting than registered and then what do we do?
> 
> To me, at least, I'm a Libertarian, so I have no dog in this fight.



I cannot imagine allowing ANYONE to vote without showing an ID, and I can't imagine that anyone with a valid ID would think that is a problem.


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## oldman (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I've seen zero actual evidence offered that proves voting by mail has a concerning level of fraud.
> 
> Absentee ballots have been available in the US for over 100 years and are used by US troops, ex-pats, some elderly, some disabled folks, and people who are traveling during election day.


Keep in mind that absentee ballots are handled differently than mail in ballots. Absentee ballots are mailed directly to the individual that has proven his/her eligibility to vote through proper ID requirements. Mail in ballots are sent out by the millions to addresses. These ballots can be collected out of the mailboxes, bought, traded, reproduced, etc. 

But, whatever suits the masses, then so-be-it.


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## Aunt Bea (May 26, 2020)

Where I live you have to be registered to vote but no ID is required at the polls on election day.

The poll workers check the rolls to see if you are listed and compare your signature to the photostat on the paper roll.  This year's signature will become next year's verification.

It would be possible for someone to beat you to the polls and vote with a forged signature but it would only skew the votes by one so it would not be a very efficient way to tamper with the elections.

I would think that similar checks could be put into place to ensure that only one absentee ballot was cast even if that individual vote was suspect.

I'm sure that there will be some bumps to work out like there is with any change but I don't believe that we have to worry about politicians, terrorists, or foreign governments skewing our election results. 

Like most changes that we deal with the difficult part is adjusting our attitude to the change.


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## Butterfly (May 26, 2020)

I haven't heard of anywhere mailing out mail-in ballots to anyone who wasn't already a registered voter and who has filled an application for an absentee ballot.


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## oldman (May 26, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> Where I live you have to be registered to vote but no ID is required at the polls on election day.
> 
> The poll workers check the rolls to see if you are listed and compare your signature to the photostat on the paper roll.  This year's signature will become next year's verification.
> 
> ...


But, like I posted, absentee ballots are treated much differently than mail in voting. I think California just did a mail in voting election. The state sent out millions of ballots to mailboxes or anyone with an address. If someone was following the mailman, they could have easily stolen the ballots or bought the ballots or even duplicated the ballots. Also, with absentee balloting, many states require a reason as to why the voter cannot attend a polling place and ID. There is a difference.

My mom and dad always considered going to the polls as a big day for them. They wore red, white and blue, except when dad had to wear his uniform. Then, they would come home and watch Cronkite to get the results.


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## oldman (May 26, 2020)

So


Butterfly said:


> I haven't heard of anywhere mailing out mail-in ballots to anyone who wasn't already a registered voter and who has filled an application for an absentee ballot.


Some states do not require the voter to request a mail-in ballot. They automatically get one in the mail.


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## C'est Moi (May 26, 2020)

I have been having to show my ID all my life for the most mundane things... buying alcohol, writing a check, and sometimes in conjunction with using a credit card, etc.  I have no problem showing PROOF of my identity at the polling place, as I have for all the years I've voted in Texas.   Why any reasonable person would object to that minor "inconvenience" is a mystery to me.


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## asp3 (May 26, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> I have been having to show my ID all my life for the most mundane things... buying alcohol, writing a check, and sometimes in conjunction with using a credit card, etc.  I have no problem showing PROOF of my identity at the polling place, as I have for all the years I've voted in Texas.   Why any reasonable person would object to that minor "inconvenience" is a mystery to me.



My main problem with the voter ID laws is that they put an economic barrier up for some people.  If they were enacted with provisions for low income people to get IDs without having to pay for the ID and in some cases pay to get a copy of a birth certificate or for those who don't have birth certificates to pay for documentation that is sufficient to get an ID then I would be OK with that.  Another economic barrier is having to take time off work or pay to travel to where they can get an official ID.  But I have yet to hear of a voter ID law that also addresses the potential economic barriers.  

Another problem I've heard of is that some states restrict the forms of ID that are allowable.  I believe it was South Dakota that stopped accepting tribal membership cards that had been sufficient for many years.  They forced native Americans to get IDs which required a street address including street number when they often do not use such methods for addresses on tribal lands.

I do agree that this is a small subset of people, but until their problems are addressed I see voter ID laws mainly as efforts to prevent certain people from being able to vote rather than preventing fraud.


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## Aunt Bea (May 26, 2020)

In this day and age it's really a waste of time and money to cobble together a new paper-based mail-in voting process.

We file our income tax, apply for Social Security benefits, complete the census, Medicare, all online but we still don't have a way to vote electronically for those that are able.


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## C'est Moi (May 26, 2020)

asp3 said:


> My main problem with the voter ID laws is that they put an economic barrier up for some people.  If they were enacted with provisions for low income people to get IDs without having to pay for the ID and in some cases pay to get a copy of a birth certificate or for those who don't have birth certificates to pay for documentation that is sufficient to get an ID then I would be OK with that.  Another economic barrier is having to take time off work or pay to travel to where they can get an official ID.  But I have yet to hear of a voter ID law that also addresses the potential economic barriers.
> 
> Another problem I've heard of is that some states restrict the forms of ID that are allowable.  I believe it was South Dakota that stopped accepting tribal membership cards that had been sufficient for many years.  They forced native Americans to get IDs which required a street address including street number when they often do not use such methods for addresses on tribal lands.
> 
> I do agree that this is a small subset of people, but until their problems are addressed I see voter ID laws mainly as efforts to prevent certain people from being able to vote rather than preventing fraud.


Sorry, but that "economic barrier" argument is a crock.  Most adults in this country have some kind of ID because it is necessary in the daily scheme of things.  If a potential voter can take time off and travel to VOTE, then why not to obtain the necessary ID to do so?


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## Butterfly (May 26, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> Sorry, but that "economic barrier" argument is a crock.  Most adults in this country have some kind of ID because it is necessary in the daily scheme of things.  If a potential voter can take time off and travel to VOTE, then why not to obtain the necessary ID to do so?



Because some folks have no way to travel, i.e., elders who have no car, or are ill, etc., people who live on tribal lands who have no easy access to get a state issued ID.  And some folks cannot afford to pay the fee for a state issued ID.  And then you have the homeless, who have no fixed place of residence and can't get a state issued ID for that reason.  Being homeless or poor or ill does not negate your right to register to vote and to vote.

You may think it's a crock, but having to present state issued ID IS a problem for some folks.  Once a person has legally registered to vote, no ID should be required at the polling place.  The poll workers can check on their documents that you are a registered voter and whether or not you have already voted.  IMO requiring a valid state-issued ID at the polls is just a way to prevent the under privileged from voting and is a thinly veiled poll tax.


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## C'est Moi (May 27, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> Because some folks have no way to travel, i.e., elders who have no car, or are ill, etc., people who live on tribal lands who have no easy access to get a state issued ID.  And some folks cannot afford to pay the fee for a state issued ID.  And then you have the homeless, who have no fixed place of residence and can't get a state issued ID for that reason.  Being homeless or poor or ill does not negate your right to register to vote and to vote.
> 
> You may think it's a crock, but having to present state issued ID IS a problem for some folks.  Once a person has legally registered to vote, no ID should be required at the polling place.  The poll workers can check on their documents that you are a registered voter and whether or not you have already voted.  IMO requiring a valid state-issued ID at the polls is just a way to prevent the under privileged from voting and is a thinly veiled poll tax.


How does one "legally register to vote" with no ID?


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## asp3 (May 27, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> Sorry, but that "economic barrier" argument is a crock.  Most adults in this country have some kind of ID because it is necessary in the daily scheme of things.  If a potential voter can take time off and travel to VOTE, then why not to obtain the necessary ID to do so?



Voting shouldn't be easy for just most eligible voters, it should be easy for *ALL* eligible voters.

Once again I have no problem with voter ID laws as long as there are provisions and programs for low income and otherwise impacted individuals to get acceptable voter ID identification at low or no cost.


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## asp3 (May 27, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> How does one "legally register to vote" with no ID?



There are a fair number of people who have been legally registered to vote for years who didn't need to provide any sort of special identification to do so.  And many of them have been able vote without ID for many years before these voter ID laws were enacted.


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## CarolfromTX (May 27, 2020)

You need an ID to purchase alcohol or cigarettes, open a bank account, apply for social security, apply for a job, apply for unemployment, drive a car, rent a hotel room, get married, buy a gun, apply for welfare or food stamps, get into a federal building, get married, and drive a car. But you shouldn't have to have one to vote? Gimme a break. That dog won't hunt.


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## 911 (May 27, 2020)

Many states have online registration, which all states should enact. I agree that voting should be made as simple as possible. The voting part is fairly easy for most, but getting registered can be a challenge for some. I think the government used to allow you to register when you filed your income taxes, didn't they? 

I have also noticed voter registrations being done at schools and other public spots in order to get people out to vote.


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## Aunt Bea (May 27, 2020)

In New York, we can still register to vote by mail with only name, address, and last four digits of our Social Security number.


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## StarSong (May 27, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> I haven't heard of anywhere mailing out mail-in ballots to anyone who wasn't already a registered voter and who has filled an application for an absentee ballot.


I don't think people should have to show ID every time they want to vote. Register once with some ID or name, address & last 4 of SS, and you should be good to go. Mail in voting would solve that problem. The ballot comes right to the mailbox of registered voters.  

Agree, @Butterfly, ballots are only sent to registered voters. Some states are moving toward sending them to all registered voters this fall due to the uncertainty of C-19's future trajectory. 

From Yolo County, CA, this is typical of how mail in ballots are processed (from https://www.yoloelections.org/voting/how-vote-by-mail-ballots-are-counted):

*Vote By Mail (VBM) ballots* are counted in the same way as other ballots; only the advance processing is different.
*When VBMs arrive in the Elections Office* the signature on each envelope is checked to make sure that the person who signed the envelope is the same person who is registered. After the signatures are verified, the ballots (still in their envelopes) are sorted by precinct and stored until processing begins.
*Ten business days before Election Day,* we begin processing the VBMs. The ballots are removed from their envelopes and placed in precinct-specific bags ready for scanning.
*The first vote counts that are announced* on election night are the VBM ballots that were processed and scanned the week before Election Day.
*VBMs returned to polling places* are not included in the election night results because they must processed before they can be scanned and counted. Before we process these ballots, we first verify that the voters who submitted them did not also vote at a polling place in Yolo County.
*These votes are tallied* and the totals reported when everything has been checked. This process is usually finished several weeks after the election.


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## 911 (May 27, 2020)

I think more people are likely to vote with a mail-in vote. Too many people have been staying home on election day.


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## CarolfromTX (May 27, 2020)

Mail in? No possibility for fraud there. Heck, no!


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## C'est Moi (May 27, 2020)

asp3 said:


> There are a fair number of people who have been legally registered to vote for years who didn't need to provide any sort of special identification to do so.  And many of them have been able vote without ID for many years before these voter ID laws were enacted.


So to get a voter registration no ID required???   That doesn't even make any sense.  No wonder illegals and dead people can vote nowadays.  Isn't anyone TIRED of voter fraud?


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## C'est Moi (May 27, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> Mail in? No possibility for fraud there. Heck, no!


Yeah, and if you think it takes a long time to get election results now, just wait till they have physical pieces of paper being shuffled (and probably "lost"  .)   Good grief, what a giant step backward in this computerized world.


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## asp3 (May 27, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> So to get a voter registration no ID required???   That doesn't even make any sense.  No wonder illegals and dead people can vote nowadays.  Isn't anyone TIRED of voter fraud?



There are multiple studies which show that the incidence of voter fraud is very low.  I don't have any links to them but if you search you can probably find them.

If you have any links to credible reports of people not eligible to vote doing so I'd be willing to look into those.  The one I know of that was prosecuted was a felon who incorrectly thought she was allowed to vote.

Removing dead people from the registration has always been an issue.  That seems to be something that needs to be handled by the registrar of voters.  However I do agree that anyone using a dead person's ballot should be charged and tried of voter fraud.

What I am tired of is voter suppression.  It has many forms.  For example some areas close a lot of polling places in low income areas so that they have many more voters to process than other areas which causes long lines and long waits to vote.  There are also the ones where students who are eligible to vote are given incorrect information on how or where they are supposed to vote.  Along the same lines of the closing of polling places are the ones where polling places are moved to areas not served by public transit making it difficult for people without personal transportation to vote.  Another is having the voter registration exactly match what is on file for their ID (which is usually a driver's license) even if the voter registration is wrong due to incorrect entry with no option to have a provisional ballot until the difference can be cleared up.  These have been well documented and although I don't have the links now I'd be willing to find them so that you could check them out yourself.


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## C'est Moi (May 27, 2020)

asp3 said:


> ...What I am tired of is voter suppression.  It has many forms.  For example some areas close a lot of polling places in low income areas so that they have many more voters to process than other areas which causes long lines and long waits to vote.  There are also the ones where students who are eligible to vote are given incorrect information on how or where they are supposed to vote.  Along the same lines of the closing of polling places are the ones where polling places are moved to areas not served by public transit making it difficult for people without personal transportation to vote.  Another is having the voter registration exactly match what is on file for their ID (which is usually a driver's license) even if the voter registration is wrong due to incorrect entry with no option to have a provisional ballot until the difference can be cleared up.  These have been well documented and although I don't have the links now I'd be willing to find them so that you could check them out yourself.


Voter suppression is a misnomer; every American (with only a few exceptions) has the right to vote.   Stand in line? Boo-hoo, I've stood in line many times to exercise my right to vote.  People who are physically unable to stand in line get special consideration by poll workers so that they don't have to.  

If students can't figure out how and where to vote, they have no business voting in the first place.


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## lukebass (May 27, 2020)

In most state anyone over 65 is qualified for a mail-in ballot.  No other reason needed.

Covid 19 cases keep increasing across the country.   Do nothing and watch the numbers grow.   Maybe we could hit a million dead by the end of the year.    Don't worry, that's mostly elder folks....oops, that's us isn't it?


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## asp3 (May 27, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> Voter suppression is a misnomer; every American (with only a few exceptions) has the right to vote.   Stand in line? Boo-hoo, I've stood in line many times to exercise my right to vote.  People who are physically unable to stand in line get special consideration by poll workers so that they don't have to.
> 
> If students can't figure out how and where to vote, they have no business voting in the first place.



I completely disagree with you.  Making changes which can be predicted to reduce voter participation is suppression to me.  You may not agree with me but it isn't a matter of what it is or isn't.  If it were done to *most* voters in an area then I would agree that it wasn't suppression, however when one looks at who is inconvenienced it is rarely those of substance or the lever of inconvenience doesn't meet the level of a large group of other people.

I should have included that the students were given incorrect information by election officials.  You cannot fault someone for trusting someone who is supposed to be making sure that everyone has the information they need to vote.  If you blame the students for other people's mistakes we might as well just drop that one.


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## C'est Moi (May 27, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I completely disagree with you.  Making changes which can be predicted to reduce voter participation is suppression to me.  You may not agree with me but it isn't a matter of what it is or isn't.  If it were done to *most* voters in an area then I would agree that it wasn't suppression, however when one looks at who is inconvenienced it is rarely those of substance or the lever of inconvenience doesn't meet the level of a large group of other people.
> 
> I should have included that the students were given incorrect information by election officials.  You cannot fault someone for trusting someone who is supposed to be making sure that everyone has the information they need to vote.  If you blame the students for other people's mistakes we might as well just drop that one.


Here's the thing.  I don't believe in special concessions for any group.  If you have the RIGHT to vote, then you are in no way "suppressed."   You may require assistance but you are in no way prevented from voting.   As with so many things now, the many must conform to the wants of the FEW.  So freakin' tiresome all the whining, whining, WHINING.


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