# Serious side effects- my opinion



## Becky1951

Am I the only one who notices that every article relating to Covid vaccine serious side effects state how rare they are?

One state reports a few serious side effects, even possibly a death.

Another state reports similar happening a few days/weeks later.

Another state reports same days later. And so it continues.

Each article stating how rare it is.

Yes its rare when only counting how many were given the vaccine in that particular state vs how many had serious side effects in that state.

But adding all states together reporting since vaccinations began how many given the vaccine vs how many serious side effects,  those serious side effects are creeping up..

Yes, you can reply with the CDC sites statistics showing those numbers they have, how many were vaccinated vs serious side effects.

But then try to remember how many times articles relating to serious side effects claim, we are investigating the serious side effects and will have updated information later. 

I think their "investigating" is only investigating medical "experts" who will agree with them that their vaccines are safe with only "rare" serious side effects.

Just my opinion of it. 

Those here in the forum who have not experienced serious side effects, that's great, however try to remember just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's not happening or it's fake news, or someone is against vaccinations.


----------



## Aunt Marg

Oh, no... you're not the only one, Becky.

I for two, am sick and tired of all of the downplaying going on surrounding side-effects and even deaths associated with.


----------



## win231

They know that most people who are wowed by "Experts" & "Professionals" tend to believe whatever they're told.
My first hint was reports about "Crowded ER's, hospitals filled to capacity, patients in beds in hallways, bodies stacked in meat trucks etc.  I've taken friends to 2 ER's at 2 big hospitals in the past year.  I saw absolutely NOTHING of the sort.  There were 2 people in the waiting rooms, many empty beds &.........not a single meat truck outside.
And, of course I haven't forgotten our former president "Being treated for Covid & being on a ventilator," or that experimental miracle drug that cured him in 3 days & was coincidentally approved.  And why aren't we hearing about that drug curing anyone else?


----------



## tbeltrans

win231 said:


> They know that most people who are wowed by "Experts" & "Professionals" tend to believe whatever they're told.
> My first hint was reports about "Crowded ER's, hospitals filled to capacity, patients in beds in hallways, bodies stacked in meat trucks etc.  I've taken friends to 2 ER's at 2 big hospitals in the past year.  I saw absolutely NOTHING of the sort.  There were 2 people in the waiting rooms, many empty beds &.........not a single meat truck outside.
> And, of course I haven't forgotten our former president "Being treated for Covid & being on a ventilator," or that experimental miracle drug that cured him in 3 days & was coincidentally approved.  And why aren't we hearing about that drug curing anyone else?


I think that whole thing surrounding Trump getting COVID was, at minimum, staged in true P.T. Barnum fashion.  I don't know that for a fact since I simply wasn't there.  However, the people I know personally who have had COVID, were, in their own words, more sick than they had ever been in their lives.  That description seems very consistent across the people I know personally who have had it.  As for any drug associated with Trump's "cure", I think that was all a part of the medicine show, since nobody else seems to have been able to show similar results or even to have taken whatever that drug was.

Tony


----------



## StarSong

win231 said:


> They know that most people who are wowed by "Experts" & "Professionals" tend to believe whatever they're told.
> My first hint was reports about "Crowded ER's, hospitals filled to capacity, patients in beds in hallways, bodies stacked in meat trucks etc.  I've taken friends to 2 ER's at 2 big hospitals in the past year.  I saw absolutely NOTHING of the sort.  There were 2 people in the waiting rooms, many empty beds &.........not a single meat truck outside.
> And, of course I haven't forgotten our former president "Being treated for Covid & being on a ventilator," or that experimental miracle drug that cured him in 3 days & was coincidentally approved.  And why aren't we hearing about that drug curing anyone else?


My nephew is an RN in NY who attested to the Covid wards being slammed and sent me a shocking video of a line-up of Covid patients, one after the other, from his hospital.  If I could share it here, I would, but he texted it to me and SF doesn't permit those types of video files.   

ERs being crowded - or not - tell little about what's happening inside a hospital, much like swans glide across the surface of a pond while paddling furiously beneath the surface.


----------



## Becky1951

StarSong said:


> My nephew is an RN in NY who attested to the Covid wards being slammed and sent me a shocking video of a line-up of Covid patients, one after the other, from his hospital.  If I could share it here, I would, but he texted it to me and SF doesn't permit those types of video files.
> 
> ERs being crowded - or not - tell little about what's happening inside a hospital, much like swans glide across the surface of a pond while paddling furiously beneath the surface.


I'm not doubting the Covid virus, its 100% real.

As for hospitals, Covid patients were taken directly to covid wards, no visitors allowed, so of course there isn't a lot people lingering in the hospital for others to see.
Refrigerated trucks were not needed at every hospital so not seen everywhere. But they were real.


----------



## win231

And "Because the vaccine is doing its job, we can get back to normal."
"B-B-But we still need masks & social distancing.  And businesses only 25% capacity.........  Uh.....Just like before the vaccine because.....the vaccine doesn't prevent transmitting the virus to others; it might make your illness less severe."


----------



## tbeltrans

The vaccine is for the individual who received it.  The masks are supposed to protect other people.  Recall al the talk about how an individual could be carrying the virus, but not having any symptoms and still needed to be careful about not passing it on to others.  Unless everybody in the world has gotten the vaccine (assuming these really do what is claimed), mask wearing and certain travel restrictions will probably remain in place.

The truth is out there.  The X Files nailed it - this whole thing is a hoax and the vaccine is really intended to prepare us for the eventual alien invasion.  [Runs for cover...]

Tony


----------



## chic

Becky1951 said:


> Am I the only one who notices that every article relating to Covid vaccine serious side effects state how rare they are?
> 
> One state reports a few serious side effects, even possibly a death.
> 
> Another state reports similar happening a few days/weeks later.
> 
> Another state reports same days later. And so it continues.
> 
> Each article stating how rare it is.
> 
> Yes its rare when only counting how many were given the vaccine in that particular state vs how many had serious side effects in that state.
> 
> But adding all states together reporting since vaccinations began how many given the vaccine vs how many serious side effects,  those serious side effects are creeping up..
> 
> Yes, you can reply with the CDC sites statistics showing those numbers they have, how many were vaccinated vs serious side effects.
> 
> But then try to remember how many times articles relating to serious side effects claim, we are investigating the serious side effects and will have updated information later.
> 
> I think their "investigating" is only investigating medical "experts" who will agree with them that their vaccines are safe with only "rare" serious side effects.
> 
> Just my opinion of it.
> 
> Those here in the forum who have not experienced serious side effects, that's great, however try to remember just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's not happening or it's fake news, or someone is against vaccinations.


Funny you mention it because I was thinking the same thing this morning.


----------



## Aunt Marg

win231 said:


> And "Because the vaccine is doing its job, we can get back to normal."
> "B-B-But we still need masks & social distancing.  And businesses only 25% capacity.........  Uh.....Just like before the vaccine because.....the vaccine doesn't prevent transmitting the virus to others; it might make your illness less severe."


A-A-And... the vaccines may not even work at all.


----------



## Ruthanne

All that concerns me is that numerous people I know have not had any side effects from the vaccine and I have not either so far.


----------



## win231

tbeltrans said:


> The vaccine is for the individual who received it.  The masks are supposed to protect other people.  Recall al the talk about how an individual could be carrying the virus, but not having any symptoms and still needed to be careful about not passing it on to others.  Unless everybody in the world has gotten the vaccine (assuming these really do what is claimed), mask wearing and certain travel restrictions will probably remain in place.
> 
> The truth is out there.  The X Files nailed it - this whole thing is a hoax and the vaccine is really intended to prepare us for the eventual alien invasion.  [Runs for cover...]
> 
> Tony


Well, IMO, some things are true; Covid does exist, just the flu exists.  Some people die of it just like some people die of the flu.  It's the numbers & exaggerations that make thinking people think.


----------



## tbeltrans

When I got my shot, I asked the nurse about the vaccine and how it worked.  Essentially, what she described is very similar to the work I did with AI back in the 90s.  I was involved in the development of a neural network with the National Institute of Health (NIH).

They were interested in using it for discovering and tracing pandemics and various ways diseases travel through a population, while my company was interested in finding and troubleshooting network problems.  For me, it was just a cool project that was different from my normal work.

Anyway, for a neural network to function, it must be trained by feeding in appropriate data and checking what it produces.  You have to continually modify the data until you get expected output.  If the data fed in deviates too far from what the network is expected to produce, then the code itself may need modification.  We really don't know exactly what the neural network is doing between input and output, so it can be difficult to determine what code changes are required.

The way the nurse explained the vaccine to me, it is exactly like training a neural network.  Signature aspects of the virus (but not the active parts) are injected into your body and the body is supposed to recognize the injected material as something to attack.  In this way, the body is trained to attack the virus and prevent it from killing the host.

Whether scientists know exactly what is going on between input and output result, I don't know, but I suspect that since the virus is not 100% effective, maybe they have a similar problem that we had training a neural network.

Of course, the nurse I talked to is not a lab scientist creating the virus and what she described was probably dumbed down since I am not a medical person, so I am sure what I am saying about the virus is distantly approximate at best.

Tony


----------



## Becky1951

Ruthanne said:


> All that concerns me is that numerous people I know have not had any side effects from the vaccine and I have not either so far.


Exactly! Those not effected have no concern of others who are or will be when they get vaccinated.
So therefore, no big deal.


----------



## tbeltrans

win231 said:


> Well, IMO, some things are true; Covid does exist, just the flu exists.  Some people die of it just like some people die of the flu.  It's the numbers & exaggerations that make thinking people think.


The second part of my post was a joke.  Some got it...

As for the numbers, I am not a medical person and am nowhere near the action, so I can't really comment on that.  I am amazed at the expertise displayed in these forums though. 

Tony


----------



## Ruthanne

Becky1951 said:


> Exactly! Those not effected have no concern of others who are or will be when they get vaccinated.
> So therefore, no big deal.


Yeah whatever you want to think...I don't care any more.I'm not going to live in your world of paranoia.I know I'm a caring person!!


----------



## Becky1951

Ruthanne said:


> Yeah whatever you want to think...I don't care any more.I'm not going to live in your world of paranoia.I know I'm a caring person!!


No paranoid, being thoughtful and careful. My reply reflected your statement, "all that concerns me".  So naturally that sounded non caring.


----------



## chic

tbeltrans said:


> The vaccine is for the individual who received it.  The masks are supposed to protect other people.  Recall al the talk about how an individual could be carrying the virus, but not having any symptoms and still needed to be careful about not passing it on to others.  Unless everybody in the world has gotten the vaccine (assuming these really do what is claimed), mask wearing and certain travel restrictions will probably remain in place.
> 
> The truth is out there.  The X Files nailed it - this whole thing is a hoax and the vaccine is really intended to prepare us for the eventual alien invasion.  [Runs for cover...]
> 
> Tony


But if you're vaccinated, you're protected aren't you? Isn't that the idea of the vaccine? So what should it matter to you or any other vaccinated person what the rest of the world does or if we are not vaccinated?

I just don't understand this and nobody ever directly answers this question for me.


----------



## win231

chic said:


> But if you're vaccinated, you're protected aren't you? Isn't that the idea of the vaccine? So what should it matter to you or any other vaccinated person what the rest of the world does or if we are not vaccinated?
> 
> I just don't understand this and nobody ever directly answers this question for me.


Yeah, we hear the same sales tactic to sell flu shots:  _"If you don't get a flu shot, you're making other people sick."  _Some hospitals (like Kaiser Permanente) hang up a big banner in front of their entrance that says this.
We're not expected to use logic & figure out that if the flu shot protected anyone, they couldn't get the flu from unvaccinated people.


----------



## Becky1951

chic said:


> But if you're vaccinated, you're protected aren't you? Isn't that the idea of the vaccine? So what should it matter to you or any other vaccinated person what the rest of the world does or if we are not vaccinated?
> 
> I just don't understand this and nobody ever directly answers this question for me.


I think it's like this, until Everyone in the world is vaccinated the virus is still out there.

I think it will be out there no matter what, having to have boosters just like the flu.

It shouldn't be anyone's business if others have no desire to be vaccinated, as long as those who are vaccinated are safe from the virus. But their not 100% safe.

There are those who have medical reasons not to be vaccinated so this virus isn't going to disappear.

But you will hear, isn't it better to be vaccinated and not die of Covid?

Yep, unless your one of the ones who die from blood clots or another serious side effect.

I have blocked arteries, it wouldn't take but a tiny clot to kill me. Plus other health issues.


----------



## win231

Becky1951 said:


> I think it's like this, until Everyone in the world is vaccinated the virus is still out there.
> 
> I think it will be out there no matter what, having to have boosters just like the flu.
> 
> It shouldn't be anyone's business if others have no desire to be vaccinated, as long as those who are vaccinated are safe from the virus. But their not 100% safe.
> 
> There are those who have medical reasons not to be vaccinated so this virus isn't going to disappear.
> 
> But you will hear, isn't it better to be vaccinated and not die of Covid?
> 
> Yep, unless your one of the ones who die from blood clots or another serious side effect.
> 
> I have blocked arteries, it wouldn't take but a tiny clot to kill me. Plus other health issues.


I don't think anyone who reaches 60 years or over has no health issues.  Some known & some unknown.
I've had a bad reaction to an antibiotic that could have killed me - after taking it previously with no problem.  That's why drugs & vaccines are "Rolling The Dice."  You have to decide if it's worth the risk, & whether it protects.  But those who chastise others who decide not to get a vaccine are fools.


----------



## tbeltrans

Getting everybody vaccinated doesn't make the virus go away.  I can say that because if that were not the case, those researchers and medical field people touting the vaccine would have included that claim. The intent of the vaccine is to prevent the person getting the vaccine from getting seriously ill.

My choice of words is purposeful.  I am not a medical person and do not have the scientific background to speak with authority about the vaccine as many here in the forums seem to have.  In my posts, instead of making proclamations, I try to be very clear as to what I know, what I don't, and what I think.  Lacking that background and training/education, I can't tell others what to do regarding the vaccine, so it is best that I don't encroach on other peoples' choices to get it or not.

Tony


----------



## digifoss

Statistics are wonderful aren't they ?  So flexible and manageable.  In the case of the current Wuhan flu, they can be used to demonstrate that the available vaccines are 99.999999% safe, or the exact opposite, depending on who gathers and presents the information.


----------



## fmdog44

When there is no news you make news the foundation of all veins of information media.


----------



## saltydog

tbeltrans said:


> I think that whole thing surrounding Trump getting COVID was, at minimum, staged in true P.T. Barnum fashion.  I don't know that for a fact since I simply wasn't there.  However, the people I know personally who have had COVID, were, in their own words, more sick than they had ever been in their lives.  That description seems very consistent across the people I know personally who have had it.  As for any drug associated with Trump's "cure", I think that was all a part of the medicine show, since nobody else seems to have been able to show similar results or even to have taken whatever that drug was.
> 
> Tony


You must possess “Celebrity Status” to be admitted to the hospital the day after you test positive for the coronavirus and showing few symptoms. Plus, given treatments not yet available except to a chosen few.


----------



## charry

win231 said:


> Well, IMO, some things are true; Covid does exist, just the flu exists.  Some people die of it just like some people die of the flu.  It's the numbers & exaggerations that make thinking people think.




30.000 every winter die of the flu , and we were still living normal......
Somethings not right !,


----------



## charry

They can stuff the vaccine........why should I protect the community when none of the people I know, have even adhered to the restrictions in the past 18 months 
I will not be judged on my opinions , about the vaccine 
If you want it .....have it.......but don’t judge people , you know nothing about .... , .


----------



## tbeltrans

saltydog said:


> You must possess “Celebrity Status” to be admitted to the hospital the day after you test positive for the coronavirus and showing few symptoms. Plus, given treatments not yet available except to a chosen few.


That is certainly a possibility, I would think.  However, if there really is such a cure, wouldn't it be touted instead of the vaccines that people are getting now?

Once again, I don't know Trump personally, nor do I know what the celebrity level hospitals (????) have that is not available to the general public.  I simply don't have the medical expertise that so many here seem to have.  So the best I can do is wonder why such a miracle cure, assuming what you say is truly informed, is not being made available to the public.  I suppose I could guess at it and venture a possibility that the real cure is far too expensive to produce on a large scale, but I have to emphasize that this is just a wild guess on my part since I have no knowledge from which to make any claim of being "in the know" on it.

What I have been informed of from people in my condo association who are front line workers in local hospitals, is that those who go into a hospital with COVID-19 are VERY, very sick and it would be a miracle if these folks came out a day or two later in fine health.  Again, I am simply passing on what those who work in the middle of this pandemic are telling me.  It is not first hand knowledge on my part, so take it with a grain of salt.

Tony


----------



## digifoss

charry said:


> They can stuff the vaccine........why should I protect the community when none of the people I know, have even adhered to the restrictions in the past 18 months
> I will not be judged on my opinions , about the vaccine
> If you want it .....have it.......but don’t judge people , you know nothing about .... , .



Hear Hear !!   You put my own thoughts into words...


----------



## chic

win231 said:


> Yeah, we hear the same sales tactic to sell flu shots:  _"If you don't get a flu shot, you're making other people sick."  _Some hospitals (like Kaiser Permanente) hang up a big banner in front of their entrance that says this.
> We're not expected to use logic & figure out that if the flu shot protected e anyone, they couldn't get the flu from unvaccinated people.


So even if everyone is vaccinated, those who are not are considered little more than a contagion? Thanks. I get the picture now.


----------



## tbeltrans

digifoss said:


> Statistics are wonderful aren't they ?  So flexible and manageable.  In the case of the current Wuhan flu, they can be used to demonstrate that the available vaccines are 99.999999% safe, or the exact opposite, depending on who gathers and presents the information.


I had to take a statistics class in college.  The particular class I was in, the professor didn't go "by the book", but instead went through a number of case studies indicating how a statistical analysis is structured and can be influenced to bring about a predictable outcome.  So what you are saying is within the realm of possibility.

As I have been saying in this thread, I have no formal and/or direct knowledge of any of the studies being done, so my comment is only about statistics in general, indicating the possibility of truth in the quoted statement.

Tony


----------



## tbeltrans

charry said:


> They can stuff the vaccine........why should I protect the community when none of the people I know, have even adhered to the restrictions in the past 18 months
> I will not be judged on my opinions , about the vaccine
> If you want it .....have it.......but don’t judge people , you know nothing about .... , .


I certainly hope that you aren't judged, because it is a personal choice to get (or not) the vaccine.  The only judgement I can make is whether I want it or not.  What the next person does is really none of my business.

Tony


----------



## digifoss




----------



## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> I certainly hope that you aren't judged, because it is a personal choice to get (or not) the vaccine.  The only judgement I can make is whether I want it or not.  What the next person does is really none of my business.
> 
> Tony


This is about where I am. What others do isn’t my concern. I just don’t know whether I want one or not. I’ve heard some horrible things so am in limbo.


----------



## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> I had to take a statistics class in college.  The particular class I was in, the professor didn't go "by the book", but instead went through a number of case studies indicating how a statistical analysis is structured and can be influenced to bring about a predictable outcome.  So what you are saying is within the realm of possibility.
> 
> As I have been saying in this thread, I have no formal and/or direct knowledge of any of the studies being done, so my comment is only about statistics in general, indicating the possibility of truth in the quoted statement.
> 
> Tony


I took statistics also. Results can be biased depending on who does them so one has to always keep that in mind while viewing statistics.


----------



## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> I took statistics also. Results can be biased depending on who is does them so one has to always keep that in mind while viewing statistics.


I just looked at your reaction to my post and it is clear you understood my point.  You said it much more succinctly.   

Tony


----------



## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> This is about where I am. What others do isn’t my concern. I just don’t know whether I want one or not. I’ve heard some horrible things so am in limbo.


...and that decision is yours and yours alone.  Do what you feel is the best for you.

Tony


----------



## officerripley

Here's my experience: Huzz and I got the 1st Vax shot about a month ago; no reaction. Got the 2nd Vax shot yesterday; Huzz's arm where he got the shot hurt for several hours. About 8 hrs after getting the shot, I got tremors and shaking (didn't feel cold, just couldn't stop shaking and hurt like I've never hurt all over, from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet and very nauseous (can only keep down room-temp 7Up). So pretty miserable.

However, a good friend of ours, very healthy guy, he and his wife  both got Covid, hers wasn't as  bad as his, he was in the hospital for 3 wks, doesn't even remember the 1st week (he had a temp. of 106 when he went in), and in the 2nd week before he turned the corner & was finally feeling better, he felt so bad that he called his wife & told her to come get him to he could die at home, didn't want to die in a hospital bed. (One of the nurses overheard him and begged him not to give up, we'll get you better.) 

So yesterday when I was feeling even worse than I do today, I remember thinking to myself that if this was just a tiny amount of the way he felt when he had Covid--he said it hurt immensely to even try to breathe--I'm glad I got vaccinated.


----------



## Lewkat

Well, a year ago, I had COVID and was extremely ill.  So, when the vaccine was offered to us, I had it and yes I did react because I still carried the antibodies from my illness.  But it was nothing compared to the actual illness itself.  I also get a flu shot every year.  I do know this much, I do not want to be near anyone not vaccinated now nor do I get too close to anyone who hasn't had COVID and recovered.  It terrifies me to think it is possible to get it again, which is why I opted to get the vaccine.


----------



## Gaer

When I had such adverse reactions to the first vaccine, I was told to go to the CVC website and tell them.  The website stated the side effects reported were sore muscles, expecially at the site of the innocultion.
My call was given to a CVC nurse,who told me 
"It sounds like you had heart failure.  And you're still alive?  Under no circumstance are you to get the second vaccine."
I didn't.
My cousin got the Moderna shot as well and had all the same reactions I had,except the callapsing and passing out.  She was seriously ill and in bed for four days.
My Aunt got Shingles a few days after the vaccine.
My cousin's friend, a robust healthy man who worked in the oil fields, suddenly died while sitting on his sofa, watching TV, the day after he recieved the vaccine.
No, I don't believe what they are saying.  (It's hard to believe a lot of things these days)
But, Any side effects are better than getting the disease, unless you die, of course.
It's been a month and I'm just now getting my energy back!


----------



## Lewkat

Gaer said:


> When I had such adverse reactions to the first vaccine, I was told to go to the CVC website and tell them.  The website stated the side effects reported were sore muscles, expecially at the site of the innocultion.
> My call was given to a CVC nurse,who told me
> "It sounds like you had heart failure.  And you're still alive?  Under no circumstance are you to get the second vaccine."
> I didn't.
> My cousin got the Moderna shot as well and had all the same reactions I had,except the callapsing and passing out.  She was seriously ill and in bed for four days.
> My Aunt got Shingles a few days after the vaccine.
> My cousin's friend, a robust healthy man who worked in the oil fields, suddenly died while sitting on his sofa, watching TV, the day after he recieved the vaccine.
> No, I don't believe what they are saying.  (It's hard to believe a lot of things these days)
> But, Any side effects are better than getting the disease, unless you die, of course.
> It's been a month and I'm just now getting my energy back!


What kind of a nurse would say something like that over the phone?  Good lord, she shouldn't even have a license.


----------



## chic

Gaer said:


> When I had such adverse reactions to the first vaccine, I was told to go to the CVC website and tell them.  The website stated the side effects reported were sore muscles, expecially at the site of the innocultion.
> My call was given to a CVC nurse,who told me
> "It sounds like you had heart failure.  And you're still alive?  Under no circumstance are you to get the second vaccine."
> I didn't.
> My cousin got the Moderna shot as well and had all the same reactions I had,except the callapsing and passing out.  She was seriously ill and in bed for four days.
> My Aunt got Shingles a few days after the vaccine.
> My cousin's friend, a robust healthy man who worked in the oil fields, suddenly died while sitting on his sofa, watching TV, the day after he recieved the vaccine.
> No, I don't believe what they are saying.  (It's hard to believe a lot of things these days)
> But, Any side effects are better than getting the disease, unless you die, of course.
> It's been a month and I'm just now getting my energy back!


So you collapsed and fainted. What else happened? I'm not getting the vaccine. Everybody I talk to who has had it gets sick in varying degrees and I just fear the LONG term consequences that we don't even know yet like developing an autoimmune disease. It could take years for these things to show up but there is no liability so if you do become seriously ill from it one day, you're on your own paying for it. Not to mention your body is ruined.


----------



## Gaer

chic said:


> So you collapsed and fainted. What else happened? I'm not getting the vaccine. Everybody I talk to who has had it gets sick in varying degrees and I just fear the LONG term consequences that we don't even know yet like developing an autoimmune disease. It could take years for these things to show up but there is no liability so if you do become seriously ill from it one day, you're on your own paying for it. Not to mention your body is ruined.


Let's see.  Fast heartbeat, gasping frantically for breath, dry mouth, couldn't focus eyes, woosy, EXPLOSION OF EXTREME HEAT, hot sweats, wanted to rip my clothes off,  (This is what my husband had, the immediate hot sweats, just before he died in my arms from a heart attack) , so I thought, OMG!  I'm going to die!  Let's see, Chills and shivering, couldn't get warm,   feeling that I wanted to throw up but I hadn't eaten anything that day.  I felt ALL my energy disappear from my body just before I collapsed.  I could no longer stand up, everything went black.
I felt all my life energy dissapear from my body.  That was scary!

I hate to talk about aches and pains and stuff.  I'm pretty old but I have no pains.  I'm in excellent health.
but my body is pretty pure.  no smoking, no drugs, no drinking, I only drink water. 
Wow!  Am I boring! 
and,
Most people don't have these side effects!  That must be a consideration.   I'd hate to deter you and have you get sick!


----------



## boliverchadsworth

Becky1951 said:


> Am I the only one who notices that every article relating to Covid vaccine serious side effects state how rare they are?
> 
> One state reports a few serious side effects, even possibly a death.
> 
> Another state reports similar happening a few days/weeks later.
> 
> Another state reports same days later. And so it continues.
> 
> Each article stating how rare it is.
> 
> Yes its rare when only counting how many were given the vaccine in that particular state vs how many had serious side effects in that state.
> 
> But adding all states together reporting since vaccinations began how many given the vaccine vs how many serious side effects,  those serious side effects are creeping up..
> 
> Yes, you can reply with the CDC sites statistics showing those numbers they have, how many were vaccinated vs serious side effects.
> 
> But then try to remember how many times articles relating to serious side effects claim, we are investigating the serious side effects and will have updated information later.
> 
> I think their "investigating" is only investigating medical "experts" who will agree with them that their vaccines are safe with only "rare" serious side effects.
> 
> Just my opinion of it.
> 
> Those here in the forum who have not experienced serious side effects, that's great, however try to remember just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's not happening or it's fake news, or someone is against vaccinations.


I am from the goverment I am here to help you....get your hysteria here get your ice cold hesteria here--


----------



## Gaer

boliverchadsworth said:


> I am from the goverment I am here to help you....get your hysteria here get your ice cold hesteria here--


I only stated those because she asked for specifics.  
I am in no way in  hesteria.


----------



## chic

Gaer said:


> Let's see.  Fast heartbeat, gasping frantically for breath, dry mouth, couldn't focus eyes, woosy, EXPLOSION OF EXTREME HEAT, hot sweats, wanted to rip my clothes off,  (This is what my husband had, the immediate hot sweats, just before he died in my arms from a heart attack) , so I thought, OMG!  I'm going to die!  Let's see, Chills and shivering, couldn't get warm,   feeling that I wanted to throw up but I hadn't eaten anything that day.  I felt ALL my energy disappear from my body just before I collapsed.  I could no longer stand up, everything went black.
> I felt all my life energy dissapear from my body.  That was scary!
> 
> I hate to talk about aches and pains and stuff.  I'm pretty old but I have no pains.  I'm in excellent health.
> but my body is pretty pure.  no smoking, no drugs, no drinking, I only drink water.
> Wow!  Am I boring!
> and,
> Most people don't have these side effects!  That must be a consideration.   I'd hate to deter you and have you get sick!


Not so. It's not boring to be healthy. I'm really healthy also and I was listening to a doctor who also eats right, exercises daily, takes vitamins, gets lots of fresh air and he doesn't want the vaccine because in his experience it hits healthy people harder for some reason according to his research. A friend of mine who is considering getting vaxxed asked me if I had gotten it yet and I said no and told him why and he then told me his brother who also has a very healthy lifestyle also got terribly sick when he was vaxxed with Moderna. I haven't talked to a single relative or friend who has not gotten sick from this. It does seem to hit women harder for some reason but there was a male doctor in FL who died hours after his vax, one in CA the same and another in Mexico. If only they had waited and tested it properly. Now, I'll probably still be banned from life for being healthy and unvaxxed. It's so unfair.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Lewkat said:


> Well, a year ago, I had COVID and was extremely ill.  So, when the vaccine was offered to us, I had it and yes I did react because I still carried the antibodies from my illness.  But it was nothing compared to the actual illness itself.  I also get a flu shot every year.  I do know this much, I do not want to be near anyone not vaccinated now nor do I get too close to anyone who hasn't had COVID and recovered.  It terrifies me to think it is possible to get it again, which is why I opted to get the vaccine.


I'm not one to take vaccines annually, like the flu shot, but that's my choice and may have a change of heart in the future.  I have received the first Moderna vaccine for this potentially deadly coronavirus, and have an appointment for the second one.

My attitude is, I'd rather take a chance of side effect (none that I've experienced yet), than be put in a hospital with a COVID-19 infection, and potentially be put into an induced coma and attached to a ventilator.  A procedure that I may or may not survive.

I'm sorry you had the virus and was so ill, I'm happy you're still here to talk with us.   I hope you don't have another occurrence of the virus....hugs.


----------



## SeaBreeze

officerripley said:


> However, a good friend of ours, very healthy guy, he and his wife both got Covid, hers wasn't as bad as his, he was in the hospital for 3 wks, doesn't even remember the 1st week (he had a temp. of 106 when he went in), and in the 2nd week before he turned the corner & was finally feeling better, he felt so bad that he called his wife & told her to come get him to he could die at home, didn't want to die in a hospital bed. (One of the nurses overheard him and begged him not to give up, we'll get you better.)
> 
> So yesterday when I was feeling even worse than I do today, I remember thinking to myself that if this was just a tiny amount of the way he felt when he had Covid--he said it hurt immensely to even try to breathe--I'm glad I got vaccinated.


Thanks for sharing that very important experience, I hope you continue to feel better and better.  I'm glad you got vaccinated too, important for you and to get this virus under control.  Hugs.


----------



## Warrigal

ATM we in Australia only have 2 options. The Pfizer serum is in short supply because it is being dribbled out to us from Europe. It has been reserved for 1A categories - essential front line workers and vulnerable seniors over 80 yrs old. We now have the AstraZeneca serum coming online, produced under licence in Australia. This is the serum that I will receive as part of the 1B category - people over 70 and all health care workers. It is AstraZeneca that is currently under a cloud because of some very unusual blood clotting side effects. This is showing up in younger people i.e. less than 50 years old, so the government has made the decision to stop vaccinating the over 80s with Pfizer and switch to AstraZeneca. This makes sense to me.

Hubby and I now have appointments for flu shots, then after a couple of weeks, first jab with AstaZeneca.  I've weighed up the risks and will go ahead with the injections. I've lived as long as I have thanks to modern medicine and I'm not going to baulk now because there may be side effects. The whole point of vaccines is to shake up the immune system and for a short while there is a biological fight going on in the body. It is unsurprising that we feel unwell, especially after the second booster shot.

I may have to eat my words after being vaccinated but I am determined to co-operate with what is probably the most important community health program since my days at school, when for the first time a vaccine was available against polio.


----------



## Dana

Like a lot of people I am concerned about having the covid vaccine....however, I am going to go ahead and have it when my age group is offered it.


----------



## Keesha

I was allowed to get mine at our medical centre April 21st but we won’t be here.


----------



## MarciKS

Becky1951 said:


> Am I the only one who notices that every article relating to Covid vaccine serious side effects state how rare they are?
> 
> One state reports a few serious side effects, even possibly a death.
> 
> Another state reports similar happening a few days/weeks later.
> 
> Another state reports same days later. And so it continues.
> 
> Each article stating how rare it is.
> 
> Yes its rare when only counting how many were given the vaccine in that particular state vs how many had serious side effects in that state.
> 
> But adding all states together reporting since vaccinations began how many given the vaccine vs how many serious side effects,  those serious side effects are creeping up..
> 
> Yes, you can reply with the CDC sites statistics showing those numbers they have, how many were vaccinated vs serious side effects.
> 
> But then try to remember how many times articles relating to serious side effects claim, we are investigating the serious side effects and will have updated information later.
> 
> I think their "investigating" is only investigating medical "experts" who will agree with them that their vaccines are safe with only "rare" serious side effects.
> 
> Just my opinion of it.
> 
> Those here in the forum who have not experienced serious side effects, that's great, however try to remember just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's not happening or it's fake news, or someone is against vaccinations.


For no more than what they know about the vaccines I don't see how they can say it's rare. I don't think it will be anymore as more people get it. 

Time will tell as to whether or not I can continue with them. Depends on how my body reacts over time.

However I don't think that people should be so quick to write off not getting them cuz they THINK they may have a reaction either. At some point you're gonna hafta make a decision between the virus and the vaccine. I'm glad I took the chance. They are discovering new things all the time so maybe they'll find a way to make one that's safer.

Just yesterday or day before I shared a story in my diary where they had a group of people they had to administer the vaccine to a little differently than normal to keep them from having a reaction. I understand being scared. I was scared too. But I was more afraid of what the COVID would do to me. Having a reaction to a vaccine seemed a lot better than drowning on lung fluid. 

Give it time...do what you gotta do for you regardless of what me or anyone else or any media entity tells you. Just don't make the decision based on media that may be inaccurate.


----------



## Knight

We still wear our masks when out shopping. We got both doses of Moderna vaccine. We had no reaction. The choice is an individual one. Do we feel safer?  Not really, that is why we still follow what we think is in our best interest. 

Maybe because we are together 24/7 in retirement for the last 26 years we are comfortable. Not everyone can deal with the change covid-19 has affected others.


----------



## ProTruckDriver

I'm not anti-vaccine but this push for distributing the vaccine is getting to be ridiculous. That's all you hear now on the News. I'm not getting it, Period! Why should I? My body does not make antibodies with having Agammaglobulinemia. Yet my Oncologist said that I should get the vaccine. When I asked him why since it probably would not help me, his answer was anything is better than nothing. Well this new experimental vaccine that no one knows the long term side effects, they can keep it. Leukemia has screwed up my body and I know how I feel taking medications, most my body rejects or have bad side effects form. By reading at some of the side effects mentioned in this thread, no thank you.
Which brings me to this subject: Vaccine Passport. Since they tell me that I should get the vaccine that means my doctors will not give me a pass to not get it. Which means I will not have the Vaccine Passport. Am I to be punished for not taking this vaccine because more than likely my body will reject it? I'll do the social distancing, mask wearing, washing hands etc. but for the vaccine, they can keep it. Btw I have been using Hand Sanitizer every day since 2012 since I was diagnosed with CLL. I keep stocked up with Hand Sanitizer even before Covid hit. Never had the flu since 2012. I'll go on doing what I'm doing, it seems to be working for me.


----------



## Jeweltea

MarciKS said:


> For no more than what they know about the vaccines I don't see how they can say it's rare. I don't think it will be anymore as more people get it.
> 
> Time will tell as to whether or not I can continue with them. Depends on how my body reacts over time.
> 
> However I don't think that people should be so quick to write off not getting them cuz they THINK they may have a reaction either. At some point you're gonna hafta make a decision between the virus and the vaccine. I'm glad I took the chance. They are discovering new things all the time so maybe they'll find a way to make one that's safer.
> 
> Just yesterday or day before I shared a story in my diary where they had a group of people they had to administer the vaccine to a little differently than normal to keep them from having a reaction. I understand being scared. I was scared too. But I was more afraid of what the COVID would do to me. Having a reaction to a vaccine seemed a lot better than drowning on lung fluid.
> 
> Give it time...do what you gotta do for you regardless of what me or anyone else or any media entity tells you. Just don't make the decision based on media that may be inaccurate.


This is the most sensible post I have read. I was a little scared to get the vaccine too but  more scared of getting Covid. Honestly I don't want to die the way a lot of people with Covid die. It sounds like a horrible death. I do think you should do what you think is best for you. Maybe talk to your doctor. My friend said she wouldn't get the vaccine but after talking to her doctor, she did get the vaccine. She was in the ICU on a ventilator several years ago and told me she never wanted to go through that again.


----------



## MarciKS

ProTruckDriver said:


> I'm not anti-vaccine but this push for distributing the vaccine is getting to be ridiculous. That's all you hear now on the News. I'm not getting it, Period! Why should I? My body does not make antibodies with having Agammaglobulinemia. Yet my Oncologist said that I should get the vaccine. When I asked him why since it probably would not help me, his answer was anything is better than nothing. Well this new experimental vaccine that no one knows the long term side effects, they can keep it. Leukemia has screwed up my body and I know how I feel taking medications, most my body rejects or have bad side effects form. By reading at some of the side effects mentioned in this thread, no thank you.
> Which brings me to this subject: Vaccine Passport. Since they tell me that I should get the vaccine that means my doctors will not give me a pass to not get it. Which means I will not have the Vaccine Passport. Am I to be punished for not taking this vaccine because more than likely my body will reject it? I'll do the social distancing, mask wearing, washing hands etc. but for the vaccine, they can keep it. Btw I have been using Hand Sanitizer every day since 2012 since I was diagnosed with CLL. I keep stocked up with Hand Sanitizer even before Covid hit. Never had the flu since 2012. I'll go on doing what I'm doing, it seems to be working for me.


" anything is better than nothing."

Uh no...that's not right. If you can't make antibodies how is that vaccine gonna help? You just do what's best for you. If everyone around me at work wouldn't have been getting COVID I never would've gotten the vaccine.


----------



## chic

ProTruckDriver said:


> I'm not anti-vaccine but this push for distributing the vaccine is getting to be ridiculous. That's all you hear now on the News. I'm not getting it, Period! Why should I? My body does not make antibodies with having Agammaglobulinemia. Yet my Oncologist said that I should get the vaccine. When I asked him why since it probably would not help me, his answer was anything is better than nothing. Well this new experimental vaccine that no one knows the long term side effects, they can keep it. Leukemia has screwed up my body and I know how I feel taking medications, most my body rejects or have bad side effects form. By reading at some of the side effects mentioned in this thread, no thank you.
> Which brings me to this subject: Vaccine Passport. Since they tell me that I should get the vaccine that means my doctors will not give me a pass to not get it. Which means I will not have the Vaccine Passport. Am I to be punished for not taking this vaccine because more than likely my body will reject it? I'll do the social distancing, mask wearing, washing hands etc. but for the vaccine, they can keep it. Btw I have been using Hand Sanitizer every day since 2012 since I was diagnosed with CLL. I keep stocked up with Hand Sanitizer even before Covid hit. Never had the flu since 2012. I'll go on doing what I'm doing, it seems to be working for me.


Rhode Island is currently working to pass legislation to protect the unvaccinated from discrimination. It may vary from state to state so check out what your state's policy will be. I'm very worried about vaccine passports myself.


----------



## Rosemarie

Aunt Marg said:


> A-A-And... the vaccines may not even work at all.


We should soon find out. Once restrictions are lifted and people start behaving normally, if all those vaccinated go down with the virus...then obviously  it won't have worked!


----------



## Lewkat

boliverchadsworth said:


> I am from the goverment I am here to help you....get your hysteria here get your ice cold hesteria here--


In the military, we had to give the troops shots for just about everything, and  you'd be amazed at the number of them who had an out and out panic reaction.  

My reaction to the vaccine was what one expects from same.  I became ill with COVID symptoms all over again..  High fever, headache, no appetite, joint aches and pains, etc.  This lasted for 4 days, but was much milder than the actual COVID itself.  After the 2nd shot, my symptoms were for only 2 days, and much lower fever.  I did not panic as I knew I had the antibodies and that this was the reason for that reaction.


----------



## charry

tbeltrans said:


> I certainly hope that you aren't judged, because it is a personal choice to get (or not) the vaccine.  The only judgement I can make is whether I want it or not.  What the next person does is really none of my business.
> 
> Tony


 A lot of my so called friends have turned funny with me tbeltrans .......so 3 down and 10 to go ..


----------



## charry

digifoss said:


> View attachment 158857


I know the feeling .......why go out for fresh air, when our beach proms and parks are so narrow, that you have to wear a mask........No way Hosea...........I prefer to sit in my back garden.....
Can’t see us ever going back to normal


----------



## charry

My 95 yr old mother, will not be having the 2nd jab ....(she didn’t want the 1st ) as she’s  had swollen legs and feet , dr advised against any more jabs.....
Mums not been out for 4yrs , before the covid even started.....


----------



## tbeltrans

charry said:


> A lot of my so called friends have turned funny with me tbeltrans .......so 3 down and 10 to go ..


I don't understand what is happening.  If you look at some of the so-called news sites, you will see many items of "this guys said that about the other guy" and the "left wing" vs the "right wing", endless back and forth bickering.  It is all the same stuff people acted out in grade school.  Our respective cultures seem to be becoming increasingly childish and I am continually wondering when we are going to finally grow up and act as a mature nations with a very real place in the world.  The UK and the US have long stood together in tough times, and now we seem to be getting sillier and sillier instead.

It also seems that friends come and go these days, so I assume that the term "friends" means something entirely different from what it meant at one time.  Everything seems so fluid, with no moorings to build a life on.  It is unfortunate and I suppose that if you go against the grain, you go it alone.  Sad, to say the least.

Tony


----------



## StarSong

Warrigal said:


> I've lived as long as I have thanks to modern medicine and I'm not going to baulk now because there may be side effects. The whole point of vaccines is to shake up the immune system and for a short while there is a biological fight going on in the body. It is unsurprising that we feel unwell, especially after the second booster shot.


I feel exactly the same way.  Modern medicine saved my life several times, the first was when I was in my mid-twenties.


----------



## StarSong

Lewkat said:


> My reaction to the vaccine was what one expects from same. I became ill with COVID symptoms all over again.. High fever, headache, no appetite, joint aches and pains, etc. This lasted for 4 days, but was much milder than the actual COVID itself. After the 2nd shot, my symptoms were for only 2 days, and much lower fever. I did not panic as I knew I had the antibodies and that this was the reason for that reaction.


That's what I went through after my first vaccine, but not quite as strong and for a shorter period than you.  (I had a mild case of Covid starting in late December which left lingering symptoms for nearly 3 months.)  

My second shot is next week - I've got some sofa time scheduled as my immune system will likely respond again.


----------



## Sunny

> At some point you're gonna hafta make a decision between the virus and the vaccine.


Well put, Marci. And it's probably true of every single medication we take. All those pills come with umpteen pages of warnings. The TV ads for medications are legally required to list all the horrific side effects, including (my favorite): "death."  Yet, the probability of these awful reactions is tiny. Leaving the ethics out of it, the pharmaceutical companies wouldn't be exposing themselves to all those million dollar lawsuits if lots of people were having terrible side effects, or dying.

From what I've heard of Covid, and seeing those numbers rise into the millions, it seems to me that the vaccine is a very, very minor risk, comparatively.  Just breathing is a risk!


----------



## win231

Rosemarie said:


> We should soon find out. Once restrictions are lifted and people start behaving normally, if all those vaccinated go down with the virus...then obviously  it won't have worked!


It won't be quite that simple, since many unvaccinated also won't get the virus.


----------



## MarciKS

win231 said:


> It won't be quite that simple, since many unvaccinated also won't get the virus.


How are they gonna be able to avoid it if they don't mask, don't distance and don't get the vaccine unless they stay isolated?


----------



## Jeweltea

There are 2 ways to reach "herd immunity" which will make it hard for the virus to find someone to infect. One is to get antibodies from the vaccine and the other is to get antibodies from getting the disease. I chose the vaccine. Due to some underlying health issues,  if I got Covid, there was a high chance of hospitalization if not death. However, personally I don't think you should make this decision based on sensationalist media stories. Some people shouldn't get the vaccine and if you are concerned,  I would ask my doctor.


----------



## JonDouglas

Assumptions you probably shouldn't make (based on experience and what I've read):

The vaccine will keep you from getting covid.
The vaccine will stop the spread of covid.
Covid is much worse than, say, H1N1.  (Note: Reporting methods were changed for covid to included "assumed to have" when counting deaths.)
The vaccines are killing people.
Masks work.
You must make a decision between getting the vaccine and getting covid.  People with good immune systems probably won't get covid, regardless.
The CDC and WHO are not political organizations.
Covid efforts are altruistic and are in no way influenced by money or politics.
Doctors will tell it like it is and not say things to cover their ass (and keep their insurance coverage).


----------



## StarSong

Here are some more assumptions people probably *SHOULDN'T *make, based on my experience and what I've read

The vaccine will be ineffective at preventing you from getting Covid
The vaccine will be ineffective at preventing the spread of Covid
It's wise to decide about vaccines based on the 1% stats rather than the 99%
Covid illness and death rates are no worse than the flu.
The vaccines carry a much higher chance of death than Covid
No need to bother with masks - they don't work
Having a robust immune system will surely protect you from contracting Covid, because no previously healthy people have died from it.
Virtually every organization - and person - has a political agenda of some sort
Many epidemiologists, virologists, scientists and medical personnel are not altruistic nor do they care deeply about people's health
No need to bother with a vaccine - your friends and family will be delighted to host you in their homes either way.


----------



## chic

win231 said:


> It won't be quite that simple, since many unvaccinated also won't get the virus.


Like me.


----------



## StarSong

chic said:


> Like me.


Let's hope you're right.


----------



## chic

StarSong said:


> Let's hope you're right.


I hope so too. It's been 13 months. I'm sure I've been exposed and my immune system is handling it.


----------



## win231

chic said:


> I hope so too. It's been 13 months. I'm sure I've been exposed and my immune system is handling it.


Same here.  And we were all exposed to the virus BEFORE masks & "Social Distancing" were in place (assuming they protect).


----------



## JonDouglas

win231 said:


> Same here.  And we were all exposed to the virus BEFORE masks & "Social Distancing" were in place (assuming they protect).


The only time I've worn a mask is when it was required to enter a store and I get out a lot.  It is good to remember that the 10 states with early, mandatory masking had more deaths per capita than the 10 states where masking wasn't mandatory.  That said, if your immune system isn't up to snuff, do take all the recommended procedures.


----------



## MarciKS

less deaths per capita *THAT WE KNOW OF.*

people omit information all the time.


----------



## MarciKS

chic said:


> I hope so too. It's been 13 months. I'm sure I've been exposed and my immune system is handling it.


how do you know you've been exposed?


----------



## JonDouglas

MarciKS said:


> less deaths per capita *THAT WE KNOW OF.*
> 
> people omit information all the time.


For that matter, just about everything is *That We Know Of*.


----------



## MarciKS

JonDouglas said:


> For that matter, just about everything is *That We Know Of*.


exactly.


----------



## digifoss

JonDouglas said:


> The only time I've worn a mask is when it was required to enter a store and I get out a lot.  It is good to remember that the 10 states with early, mandatory masking had more deaths per capita than the 10 states where masking wasn't mandatory.  That said, if your immune system isn't up to snuff, do take all the recommended procedures.



Had as much effort been put into encouraging people to follow healthy immune system strengthening practices as they have in shutting the country down, telling people to isolate, get the vaccine,  and above all wear a mask, the case and death numbers could have been much smaller.  Vitamin D3 is one of the best immune system supplements we can take and we've heard little to nothing about it, and sunshine is a great way to get plenty of vitamin D, yet we were all told to stay indoors.  A healthy diet and regular exercise is another thing that went down the drain for many.  Lots of folks became unhealthy pale pudgy couch potatoes as a result of spending too much time indoors and not getting out enough.


----------



## officerripley

digifoss said:


> Had as much effort been put into encouraging people to follow healthy immune system strengthening practices as they have in shutting the country down, telling people to isolate, get the vaccine,  and above all wear a mask, the case and death numbers could have been much smaller.  Vitamin D3 is one of the best immune system supplements we can take and we've heard little to nothing about it, and sunshine is a great way to get plenty of vitamin D,_ *yet we were all told to stay indoors*._  A healthy diet and regular exercise is another thing that went down the drain for many.  Lots of folks became unhealthy pale pudgy couch potatoes as a result of spending too much time indoors and not getting out enough.


I don't remember being told to stay indoors; yeah, they said shelter in place but also to get outdoors and exercise when possible, that it'd be good not only for physical but emotional health.


----------



## 911

tbeltrans said:


> I think that whole thing surrounding Trump getting COVID was, at minimum, staged in true P.T. Barnum fashion.  I don't know that for a fact since I simply wasn't there.  However, the people I know personally who have had COVID, were, in their own words, more sick than they had ever been in their lives.  That description seems very consistent across the people I know personally who have had it.  As for any drug associated with Trump's "cure", I think that was all a part of the medicine show, since nobody else seems to have been able to show similar results or even to have taken whatever that drug was.
> 
> Tony


I was given Regeneron when I had COVID. It's administered using an IV. I got the hives from it after day 3, so they stopped giving it to me. I do believe that it did some good. I was feeling better, but after they stopped, I also stopped improving and just leveled off.


----------



## Ladybj

Becky1951 said:


> Am I the only one who notices that every article relating to Covid vaccine serious side effects state how rare they are?
> 
> One state reports a few serious side effects, even possibly a death.
> 
> Another state reports similar happening a few days/weeks later.
> 
> Another state reports same days later. And so it continues.
> 
> Each article stating how rare it is.
> 
> Yes its rare when only counting how many were given the vaccine in that particular state vs how many had serious side effects in that state.
> 
> But adding all states together reporting since vaccinations began how many given the vaccine vs how many serious side effects,  those serious side effects are creeping up..
> 
> Yes, you can reply with the CDC sites statistics showing those numbers they have, how many were vaccinated vs serious side effects.
> 
> But then try to remember how many times articles relating to serious side effects claim, we are investigating the serious side effects and will have updated information later.
> 
> I think their "investigating" is only investigating medical "experts" who will agree with them that their vaccines are safe with only "rare" serious side effects.
> 
> Just my opinion of it.
> 
> Those here in the forum who have not experienced serious side effects, that's great, however try to remember just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's not happening or it's fake news, or someone is against vaccinations.


You are not on that boat alone...


----------



## Ladybj

win231 said:


> I don't think anyone who reaches 60 years or over has no health issues.  Some known & some unknown.
> I've had a bad reaction to an antibiotic that could have killed me - after taking it previously with no problem.  That's why drugs & vaccines are "Rolling The Dice."  You have to decide if it's worth the risk, & whether it protects.  But those who chastise others who decide not to get a vaccine are fools.


Great post.  I had a very bad reaction to the flu vaccine years ago therefore I am undecided about the C Vaccine.  I spoke with my dr office regarding the matter.. she stated "very understandable - better safe than sorry".


----------



## ProTruckDriver

digifoss said:


> Vitamin D3 is one of the best immune system supplements we can take and we've heard little to nothing about it, and sunshine is a great way to get plenty of vitamin D, yet we were all told to stay indoors.


I agree. I don't go out much but I do take a daily dose of Vitamin D3 (5,000 UI).


----------



## tbeltrans

911 said:


> I was given Regeneron when I had COVID. It's administered using an IV. I got the hives from it after day 3, so they stopped giving it to me. I do believe that it did some good. I was feeling better, but after they stopped, I also stopped improving and just leveled off.


Maybe Trump was not negatively impacted by Regeneron?  It sounds as if your recuperation took much longer than Trump's.  I think it would be a good thing if there really was a medication that allowed a person to walk out of the hospital within three days and go back to work right away.  It would change everything.

Tony


----------



## chic

MarciKS said:


> how do you know you've been exposed?


Everybody has been exposed to some degree just by living in a world filled with covid for 13 months. I've kissed, I've hugged, I've talked to strangers who removed their masks when they saw me not wearing one. (I guess they thought that was OK). I've been in hospitals taking my mom for checkups after her accident in Feb. 2020, I've been out to lunch, spent time with friends, I never just stayed in, so I would guess I've probably been exposed and have been surviving. It's what people used to do before vaccines. Your body will build up it's own immunities to covid or anything else over a period of time by just living in world filled with it.


----------



## chic

win231 said:


> Same here.  And we were all exposed to the virus BEFORE masks & "Social Distancing" were in place (assuming they protect).


That's right Win.


----------



## chic

JonDouglas said:


> The only time I've worn a mask is when it was required to enter a store and I get out a lot.  It is good to remember that the 10 states with early, mandatory masking had more deaths per capita than the 10 states where masking wasn't mandatory.  That said, if your immune system isn't up to snuff, do take all the recommended procedures.


Good point and it continues to be true. Texas repealed their mandate last month and opened at 100% capacity and have reported the lowest numbers in 9 months. Mississippi did the same and Alabama got rid of their mandate today. South Dakota with no mask mandate is doing better than North Dakota. While Michigan who has a mandate is in a surge. My state is doing okay but since we've had a mask mandate for a year, we should be doing better than Texas but we're not!

I think the experts are overlooking the importance of mental health when dealing with covid. Psychology is a valid science and it tells us there IS a connection between a person's emotional state and their physical health. If a person is oppressed, deprived, unhappy, distressed, their physical health can suffer. Make those conditions chronic and a person could become ill from it. 

This might explain in part why states with no mandates are doing better now than those with the most intense restrictions. Civil liberties are important health and human beings feel most relieved and stress free when given options, not mandates.


----------



## Ladybj

win231 said:


> I don't think anyone who reaches 60 years or over has no health issues.  Some known & some unknown.
> I've had a bad reaction to an antibiotic that could have killed me - after taking it previously with no problem.  That's why drugs & vaccines are "Rolling The dice."  You have to decide if it's worth the risk, & whether it protects.  But those who chastise others who decide not to get a vaccine are fools.


I think one of  the reasons for health issues 60 years and over are due to several medications they are on... JMO   My sister's husband is 72 years old and not on any medication and no health issues as far as I know.  My sister is 66 and no health issues.  I am 61 and do not claim any health issues. However, as you stated, if I have health issues, it is unknown to me.  The doctors can tell us anything but do they REALLY know????? I agree.. we all do what is right for US.  Don't chastise me for getting or not getting the vaccine.


----------



## JonDouglas

chic said:


> Good point and it continues to be true. Texas repealed their mandate last month and opened at 100% capacity and have reported the lowest numbers in 9 months. Mississippi did the same and Alabama got rid of their mandate today. South Dakota with no mask mandate is doing better than North Dakota. While Michigan who has a mandate is in a surge. My state is doing okay but since we've had a mask mandate for a year, we should be doing better than Texas but we're not!
> 
> I think the experts are overlooking the importance of mental health when dealing with covid. Psychology is a valid science and it tells us there IS a connection between a person's emotional state and their physical health. If a person is oppressed, deprived, unhappy, distressed, their physical health can suffer. Make those conditions chronic and a person could become ill from it.
> 
> This might explain in part why states with no mandates are doing better now than those with the most intense restrictions. Civil liberties are important health and human beings feel most relieved and stress free when given options, not mandates.


That and somebody reputable should take a hard look at the utility and potential ill-affects of using masks.  Prolonged mask use has been studied in the medical profession and the results can be awful.  

_Prolonged use of N95 and surgical masks causes physical adverse effects such as headaches, difficulty breathing, acne, skin breakdown, rashes, and impaired cognition. It also interferes with vision, communication, and thermal equilibrium_.   Source: Journal Of Infectious Diseases and Epidemiology.​​You have to wonder how masking affects those who're already distressed with mental health issues.


----------



## Ladybj

chic said:


> Everybody has been exposed to some degree just by living in a world filled with covid for 13 months. I've kissed, I've hugged, I've talked to strangers who removed their masks when they saw me not wearing one. (I guess they thought that was OK). I've been in hospitals taking my mom for checkups after her accident in Feb. 2020, I've been out to lunch, spent time with friends, I never just stayed in, so I would guess I've probably been exposed and have been surviving. It's what people used to do before vaccines. Your body will build up it's own immunities to covid or anything else over a period of time by just living in world filled with it.


----------



## Ladybj

chic said:


> Everybody has been exposed to some degree just by living in a world filled with covid for 13 months. I've kissed, I've hugged, I've talked to strangers who removed their masks when they saw me not wearing one. (I guess they thought that was OK). I've been in hospitals taking my mom for checkups after her accident in Feb. 2020, I've been out to lunch, spent time with friends, I never just stayed in, so I would guess I've probably been exposed and have been surviving. It's what people used to do before vaccines. Your body will build up it's own immunities to covid or anything else over a period of time by just living in world filled with it.


I soooooo agree.  I am not a homebody.  I stay in but I also go out once in a while. My hubby and I go out to eat, I go out to lunch with my daughter, I visit family, etc. .  Yes, our bodies are AMAZING...it does build up its own immunities to covid or anything else.  My body lets me know that it needs and rejects what it don't.  It let me know years ago, the Flu vaccine was not for me.  I listened and have not had the flu vaccine in over 30 years and have not caught the Flu.  My body has fought off so many invaders..  I had a good body, it does me good. It's telling me.. think long and hard about getting the C vaccine.. I am listening.


----------



## Ladybj

JonDouglas said:


> That and somebody reputable should take a hard look at the utility and potential ill-affects of using masks.  Prolonged mask use has been studied in the medical profession and the results can be awful.
> 
> _Prolonged use of N95 and surgical masks causes physical adverse effects such as headaches, difficulty breathing, acne, skin breakdown, rashes, and impaired cognition. It also interferes with vision, communication, and thermal equilibrium_.   Source: Journal Of Infectious Diseases and Epidemiology.​​You have to wonder how masking affects those who're already distressed with mental health issues.


I sooooo agree.  When I enter a store, etc. that require a mask, I cannot wait to get outside and take it off.  It's like damn if we do, damn if we don't.   However, I do believe mask will not be  mandatory soon.


----------



## Keesha

I don’t mind wearing the mask at all. In fact, I’ve gotten used to it however I’m not employed where I have to wear one day in , day out so I consider myself lucky in that I rarely have to wear one. Wearing one continuously would seem unhealthy both physically and mentally. 
I feel really bad for these types, young and old.


----------



## Sassycakes

To be honest I don't know what the heck is going on. My husband I both got vaccinated. My daughter, her husband, and my granddaughter, My oldest grandson is fighting it now. I have a nephew who is in his 60's. He lives in Georgia and has been in the hospital since November because he caught the covid. He has been on ventilators many times, needed a double lung transplant. Because of all that is going on we felt it would be better to get vaccinated,


----------



## HoneyNut

I feel like the news reporting every person who died after being vaccinated, makes the vaccine appear more dangerous than it is.  When millions of people are getting vaccinated, there are just randomly going to be lots of people who die.  I had a coworker who was approx 40 yrs old and one Christmas after his kids (both younger than elementary school) opened presents he didn't feel good and went upstairs to the bedroom.  When his wife checked on him 5 minutes later he was dead.  And this happened decades before covid, so I learned that shocking unexpected deaths even among relatively young people DO happen.  Another coworker even younger unexpectedly died once (decades ago) too.

I am glad of course that they are investigating all the deaths, and it is concerning that they are talking about relatively young women having blood clots after having been vaccinated.  But that is also the same people who might be on birth control pills, and the rate for getting clots is about 0.3% to 1% over 10 years for a woman on the pill (and this is also described as 'rare'), and that doesn't stop many women from being on the pill at some point in their life.  

Anyway, it seems very irresponsible when people try to frighten people away from getting vaccinated.  I thought when people in Africa wouldn't get the polio vaccine because of a belief that America put anti-fertility chemicals in it, that they must have been very uneducated people, but after reading all these opinions here about the covid vaccine, I wonder if there is a normal personality type that enjoys thinking they are being lied to and tricked and feel good about themselves for not believing information.  There is a lot of bad and wrong info but it seems so self-evident and logical to assign more weight to experts in infectious diseases.  

I'm not sure about vaccine passports but I would much prefer to go on a plane or a cruise that required them.  I don't see how it is different than countries that require Yellow Fever vaccinations to enter their country.  And in my state if someone has TB they can be thrown in jail if they don't get treatment.  I am super glad of all the people (including myself not that I had any personal choice in the matter) who got smallpox vaccinations which allowed that disease to be wiped out, and all the people who have gotten polio vaccine that is making that a very small threat and giving hope of wiping it out.  And all the people who get flu vaccinations which shrinks the spread of flu (my cousin died of the flu many years ago).

And I hope 70+% of people get Covid vaccinations so we can reduce not only the current pandemic, but also decrease the chances of a bad variant.  I totally support people who can't get the vaccine for health reasons, but people who refuse it due to unwillingness are to me like people who skip out of taxes, they will benefit from other people shouldering the responsibility.


----------



## Becky1951

"I wonder if there is a normal personality type that enjoys thinking they are being lied to and tricked and feel good about themselves for not believing information."


----------



## chic

Becky1951 said:


> "I wonder if there is a normal personality type that enjoys thinking they are being lied to and tricked and feel good about themselves for not believing information."


The reason I disbelieve is because we were lied to from the start about what was going to happen. In the U.S. we were told stay in for four weeks, two covid cycles, and we'll return to normal after that and we believed it. In the U.K. they were told only 3 weeks. Now they want to restore the freedoms they took but only in exchange for being vaccinated with a vaccine unlike any other that I've ever taken before so while I can't speak for anyone else's reasons to be suspicious here, my own are based solely on my experience as a resident of the USA.


----------



## Butterfly

StarSong said:


> Here are some more assumptions people probably *SHOULDN'T *make, based on my experience and what I've read
> 
> The vaccine will be ineffective at preventing you from getting Covid
> The vaccine will be ineffective at preventing the spread of Covid
> It's wise to decide about vaccines based on the 1% stats rather than the 99%
> Covid illness and death rates are no worse than the flu.
> The vaccines carry a much higher chance of death than Covid
> No need to bother with masks - they don't work
> Having a robust immune system will surely protect you from contracting Covid, because no previously healthy people have died from it.
> Virtually every organization - and person - has a political agenda of some sort
> Many epidemiologists, virologists, scientists and medical personnel are not altruistic nor do they care deeply about people's health
> No need to bother with a vaccine - your friends and family will be delighted to host you in their homes either way.


Well said, Star!


----------



## Butterfly

HoneyNut said:


> I feel like the news reporting every person who died after being vaccinated, makes the vaccine appear more dangerous than it is.  When millions of people are getting vaccinated, there are just randomly going to be lots of people who die.  I had a coworker who was approx 40 yrs old and one Christmas after his kids (both younger than elementary school) opened presents he didn't feel good and went upstairs to the bedroom.  When his wife checked on him 5 minutes later he was dead.  And this happened decades before covid, so I learned that shocking unexpected deaths even among relatively young people DO happen.  Another coworker even younger unexpectedly died once (decades ago) too.
> 
> I am glad of course that they are investigating all the deaths, and it is concerning that they are talking about relatively young women having blood clots after having been vaccinated.  But that is also the same people who might be on birth control pills, and the rate for getting clots is about 0.3% to 1% over 10 years for a woman on the pill (and this is also described as 'rare'), and that doesn't stop many women from being on the pill at some point in their life.
> 
> Anyway, it seems very irresponsible when people try to frighten people away from getting vaccinated.  I thought when people in Africa wouldn't get the polio vaccine because of a belief that America put anti-fertility chemicals in it, that they must have been very uneducated people, but after reading all these opinions here about the covid vaccine, I wonder if there is a normal personality type that enjoys thinking they are being lied to and tricked and feel good about themselves for not believing information.  There is a lot of bad and wrong info but it seems so self-evident and logical to assign more weight to experts in infectious diseases.
> 
> I'm not sure about vaccine passports but I would much prefer to go on a plane or a cruise that required them.  I don't see how it is different than countries that require Yellow Fever vaccinations to enter their country.  And in my state if someone has TB they can be thrown in jail if they don't get treatment.  I am super glad of all the people (including myself not that I had any personal choice in the matter) who got smallpox vaccinations which allowed that disease to be wiped out, and all the people who have gotten polio vaccine that is making that a very small threat and giving hope of wiping it out.  And all the people who get flu vaccinations which shrinks the spread of flu (my cousin died of the flu many years ago).
> 
> And I hope 70+% of people get Covid vaccinations so we can reduce not only the current pandemic, but also decrease the chances of a bad variant.  I totally support people who can't get the vaccine for health reasons, but people who refuse it due to unwillingness are to me like people who skip out of taxes, they will benefit from other people shouldering the responsibility.



Well said, and I strongly agree!


----------



## HoneyNut

chic said:


> The reason I disbelieve is because we were lied to from the start about what was going to happen. In the U.S. we were told stay in for four weeks, two covid cycles



I don't think it was a "lie", that word implies everyone knew what the future held and intentionally said something that turned out to not be true.   
The company I work for struggled at the beginning of the pandemic, trying to respond to a rapidly changing situation.  Every week in January/February 2020 we'd get a different email of changed company rules about international travel and quarantine.  I have one coworker who was leaving on a planned two week visit to Thailand to visit his old mom, and the day before he left our company suddenly instituted rules about two week quarantine before returning to the office and he had to really stress and scramble to install the appropriate security apps etc so that he'd be able to WFH.  
Then our company said we'd go on a rotation, half the people in the office for two weeks while the other half were at home, and switch places after every two weeks, then poof in a day all that was wrong and we were to all WFH, then all our badges were deactivated to prevent us from even being able to go to the office, and it was a big rigamarole of multiple levels of management approval to go in for one day to get forgotten hardware.  I remember I bought the last cheap computer monitor at Walmart and was so glad I'd been on the first rotation and had brought home my keyboard, mouse, etc.
But, I don't feel like anything the company told us that they later changed meant they ever "lied" to us, they didn't know the future and I am so happy that they reacted as fast as they could to respond to the pandemic.
I'm cynically suspicious that their caution for our health is due to a profit motive but I am so appreciative that they have protected us.  I think without big corps the US would be in a worse situation.  It is funny that working for a big corp feels like living in China and chafes a lot, but in a dangerous situation the control they have over us was to our benefit.


----------



## chic

HoneyNut said:


> I don't think it was a "lie", that word implies everyone knew what the future held and intentionally said something that turned out to not be true.
> The company I work for struggled at the beginning of the pandemic, trying to respond to a rapidly changing situation.  Every week in January/February 2020 we'd get a different email of changed company rules about international travel and quarantine.  I have one coworker who was leaving on a planned two week visit to Thailand to visit his old mom, and the day before he left our company suddenly instituted rules about two week quarantine before returning to the office and he had to really stress and scramble to install the appropriate security apps etc so that he'd be able to WFH.
> Then our company said we'd go on a rotation, half the people in the office for two weeks while the other half were at home, and switch places after every two weeks, then poof in a day all that was wrong and we were to all WFH, then all our badges were deactivated to prevent us from even being able to go to the office, and it was a big rigamarole of multiple levels of management approval to go in for one day to get forgotten hardware.  I remember I bought the last cheap computer monitor at Walmart and was so glad I'd been on the first rotation and had brought home my keyboard, mouse, etc.
> But, I don't feel like anything the company told us that they later changed meant they ever "lied" to us, they didn't know the future and I am so happy that they reacted as fast as they could to respond to the pandemic.
> I'm cynically suspicious that their caution for our health is due to a profit motive but I am so appreciative that they have protected us.  I think without big corps the US would be in a worse situation.  It is funny that working for a big corp feels like living in China and chafes a lot, but in a dangerous situation the control they have over us was to our benefit.


I think Dr. Fauci knew very well what he was saying and doing. He's been an epidemiologist for decades! If he told people, "We're going to make you stay in for two years and wear masks everytime you go out and give up all your work and all your freedoms until we have a vaccine which we will then force you to take to get some of the freedoms we took away back," people would have been rioting in the streets, pandemic or no pandemic.
In your heart, you know this is true.


----------



## HoneyNut

chic said:


> I think Dr. Fauci knew very well what he was saying and doing. He's been an epidemiologist for decades! If he told people, "We're going to make you


I could be wrong but I don't think the CDC "makes" people do stuff, I thought they provide guidance/policy information and political systems would be the ones that have power to "make" and enforce laws?   
There is no political entity forcing me to wear a mask, because I live in a rural area of a 'red' state, but as far as I've seen everyone (and myself) is wearing masks anyway.  Probably largely due to private companies requiring them, but in any case not because Dr Fauci is making us.  
I really don't understand blaming disease control measures on the experts that inform us about them.  I mean we use condoms (sadly not anymore! ha ha) because they tell us that ****** diseases spread that way, and we don't blame them and say 'if they told us we'd have to use condoms for years we would have been rioting in the streets'?
There are several countries whose political systems and citizens did a good job at following the guidance and those people are able to live normally (most are lucky enough to have a whole island to themselves).


----------



## digifoss

Dr Fauci has been compromised by his ego since the beginning, ie... his desire to be a superstar severely affects his judgment.  The WHO and CDC are political instruments ...  IMO


----------



## StarSong

Dr. Fauci was the one with the ego and bad judgment from the beginning?  Interesting way to look at it. 

My perspective on the DC drama, bad judgment, and plenty of false information (disinfectant injections, anyone?) and who wanted to be a Covid superstar spun out in an entirely different way.


----------



## Jeweltea

StarSong said:


> Dr. Fauci was the one with the ego and bad judgment from the beginning?  Interesting way to look at it.
> 
> My perspective on the DC drama, bad judgment, and plenty of false information (disinfectant injections, anyone?) and who wanted to be a Covid superstar in an entirely different way.


Not to mention openly lying in a recording!


----------



## SetWave

StarSong said:


> My perspective on the DC drama, bad judgment, and plenty of false information (disinfectant injections, anyone?).


With the ridiculously idiotic suggestion of disinfection injections and light therapy I told my friends I'm busy mixing my bleach/lysol cocktail for the evening and shoving a lightbulb up my butt.


----------



## officerripley

SetWave said:


> With the ridiculously idiotic suggestion of disinfection injections and light therapy I told my friends I'm busy mixing my bleach/lysol cocktail for the evening and shoving a lightbulb up my butt.


And if you used one of those new smart bulbs, then you'd be a smarta$$!


----------



## ProTruckDriver

Hmm, I wonder how long it would have taken for a wonder vaccine to be made if someone else were in office, maybe a few years? My guess, you all still would have been waiting for it to be developed. Let's hope another type of vaccine is not needed with the Gaffe Machine in office now.


----------



## 911

tbeltrans said:


> Maybe Trump was not negatively impacted by Regeneron?  It sounds as if your recuperation took much longer than Trump's.  I think it would be a good thing if there really was a medication that allowed a person to walk out of the hospital within three days and go back to work right away.  It would change everything.
> 
> Tony


I spoke to my Neurologist about Trump’s recovery. He made several comments, but also told me that Trump probably did not have as serious side effects as others. At the time Trump was given Regeneron, it was still a relatively newer drug that was being used in coalition with other drugs, such as the Z-Pack and Zinc.

My brain is now back to it’s supposedly normal size. The only effect that I have remaining is that I tend to lose balance at no particular time. I’m off all medications for now, but if this balance issue doesn’t resolve itself, the Neurologist said she may try a different steroid.


----------



## tbeltrans

911 said:


> I spoke to my Neurologist about Trump’s recovery. He made several comments, but also told me that Trump probably did not have as serious side effects as others. At the time Trump was given Regeneron, it was still a relatively newer drug that was being used in coalition with other drugs, such as the Z-Pack and Zinc.
> 
> My brain is now back to it’s supposedly normal size. The only effect that I have remaining is that I tend to lose balance at no particular time. I’m off all medications for now, but if this balance issue doesn’t resolve itself, the Neurologist said she may try a different steroid.


I don't wish people to be sick and I don't have that all-too-common hatred for Trump (or any President), but I do think that Trump, being President at the time and therefore extremely public, would have an impact on how some people might perceive COVID-19 as being less than as serious as it needs to be taken.  In other words, such pronouncements regarding his health need to be weighed against the big picture and managed with care for the message such announcements have on the public.

One of my brothers had COVID-19 and said it is the most sick he has ever felt - like he was going to die.  Even months later he still has that tendency to lose balance and has fallen and hurt himself from that.  He also said that he has trouble with near-term memory.  This is bad, since he is a partner in a law firm.  Anyway, there were other issue too that I don't recall offhand, but I know that even months later, he still has these ongoing issues.

Tony


----------



## Jeweltea

ProTruckDriver said:


> Hmm, I wonder how long it would have taken for a wonder vaccine to be made if someone else were in office, maybe a few years? My guess, you all still would have been waiting for it to be developed. Let's hope another type of vaccine is not needed with the Gaffe Machine in office now.


He didn't develop the vaccine...the pharmacies did, although funding it might be the only thing he did right concerning Covid. And still people won't take it, even though it was developed under him.


----------



## 911

tbeltrans said:


> I don't wish people to be sick and I don't have that all-too-common hatred for Trump (or any President), but I do think that Trump, being President at the time and therefore extremely public, would have an impact on how some people might perceive COVID-19 as being less than as serious as it needs to be taken.  In other words, such pronouncements regarding his health need to be weighed against the big picture and managed with care for the message such announcements have on the public.
> 
> One of my brothers had COVID-19 and said it is the most sick he has ever felt - like he was going to die.  Even months later he still has that tendency to lose balance and has fallen and hurt himself from that.  He also said that he has trouble with near-term memory.  This is bad, since he is a partner in a law firm.  Anyway, there were other issue too that I don't recall offhand, but I know that even months later, he still has these ongoing issues.
> 
> Tony


For awhile, I was concerned that I was the only person that had balance issues. When the Neurologist told me that loss of balance is now considered as a long term effect, I was able to better accept it. Problem now is “how long” will the effect last? No one wants to comment on that question.


----------



## digifoss

Last summer I got sick with what seemed to be a really bad case of the flu, it was about the sickest I've ever been and  the symptoms lasted two full weeks and left me really drained.  Once I got where I could move around again I found my joints were all tender and a little sore.  The arthritis in my left knee which I've had for years was suddenly much worse, bad enough that I had to start using a walking cane,  and I still have to use it, and I also now had hypothyroidism; I've never had a thyroid problem before,  and am still taking thyroid medication for that, I will probably have to always take it.  I am the only person in my family to ever have a thyroid problem so it's not in my genes.  When I was sick, we suspected that I had wuhan flu and I got tested for it and my test result was negative.  I still believe I had wuhan covid flu and that my test result was a false negative.  I discussed this with my doctor recently and she agrees that the possibility that I got a false negative is likely.  No way to tell without checking for anti-bodies.


----------



## Jeweltea

digifoss said:


> I discussed this with my doctor recently and she agrees that the possibility that I got a false negative is likely.  No way to tell without checking for anti-bodies.


I am sorry you were so sick. It does sound like you had Covid-45. It seems like the tests (especially the rapid ones) are not that accurate. I think if it was me, I would want the anti-body test.


----------



## tbeltrans

911 said:


> For awhile, I was concerned that I was the only person that had balance issues. When the Neurologist told me that loss of balance is now considered as a long term effect, I was able to better accept it. Problem now is “how long” will the effect last? No one wants to comment on that question.


I don't think anyone knows yet.

Tony


----------



## 911

If


tbeltrans said:


> I don't think anyone knows yet.
> 
> Tony


 I was still on the active duty role, I would be on sick leave.


----------



## tbeltrans

911 said:


> If
> 
> I was still on the active duty role, I would be on sick leave.


I am not sure I understand your response.  I think what you are saying is that this is a problem because you couldn't provide a time frame to your employer so that s/he would know when to expect you back.

What I meant was that I don't think anyone knows yet how long the ongoing effects will last.  My brother has posed the same question to his doctor and couldn't get even an estimate because the doctor didn't know either.  Maybe over time, at least some of the people now experiencing the ongoing effects of COVID-19 will find these ceasing to bother them.  If enough people experience this, then maybe the medical community can come up with a general sense of the time frame.

Tony


----------



## 911

tbeltrans said:


> I am not sure I understand your response.  I think what you are saying is that this is a problem because you couldn't provide a time frame to your employer so that s/he would know when to expect you back.
> 
> What I meant was that I don't think anyone knows yet how long the ongoing effects will last.  My brother has posed the same question to his doctor and couldn't get even an estimate because the doctor didn't know either.  Maybe over time, at least some of the people now experiencing the ongoing effects of COVID-19 will find these ceasing to bother them.  If enough people experience this, then maybe the medical community can come up with a general sense of the time frame.
> 
> Tony


If I was still on active duty with the state police, I would have to be on sick leave due to my issue of losing my balance for no apparent reason. A state Trooper must pass different tests before returning to active duty,  one of which is an ENG. Google ENG, if you like.


----------



## tbeltrans

911 said:


> If I was still on active duty with the state police, I would have to be on sick leave due to my issue of losing my balance for no apparent reason. A state Trooper must pass different tests before returning to active duty,  one of which is an ENG. Google ENG, if you like.


Thanks for the explanation.  I didn't know these things, but then I often say here what the limits on my knowledge are, and I am the first to admit that they are substantial. 

I see so many posts here, such as in the thread on the Chauvin trial and I have to wonder how many of those posts are from trained lawyers or police officers because they are stated as known fact rather than opinion.  It is the same story with the threads on COVID-19.  How many posting there are medical people who really know what they are talking about?

The threads I can speak with authority on would be regarding certain aspects of technology (certainly not all of it) and those areas I have first hand experience in such as something medical that my wife may be dealing with, or my experiences with the VA.  This is a relatively narrow scope, considering the breadth of subjects discussed here.

So I do appreciate your taking the time to explain what you meant.  It wasn't that you weren't clear, but that it wasn't clear to me without the work experience you have.

I did google ENG, and the context of this seems to fit the discussion:

https://www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-electronystagmography

From the site, here are the initial high points so you can determine if I found what you were referring to:

ENG is a series of sensory tests for your eyes and ears.

Do you ever get dizzy when you’re getting out of bed? Ever become nauseous when looking down from a great height? Have you felt like the world is moving even if you’re not?

It’s a common sensation, and it’s known as vertigo.

Tony


----------



## 911

tbeltrans said:


> Thanks for the explanation.  I didn't know these things, but then I often say here what the limits on my knowledge are, and I am the first to admit that they are substantial.
> 
> I see so many posts here, such as in the thread on the Chauvin trial and I have to wonder how many of those posts are from trained lawyers or police officers because they are stated as known fact rather than opinion.  It is the same story with the threads on COVID-19.  How many posting there are medical people who really know what they are talking about?
> 
> The threads I can speak with authority on would be regarding certain aspects of technology (certainly not all of it) and those areas I have first hand experience in such as something medical that my wife may be dealing with, or my experiences with the VA.  This is a relatively narrow scope, considering the breadth of subjects discussed here.
> 
> So I do appreciate your taking the time to explain what you meant.  It wasn't that you weren't clear, but that it wasn't clear to me without the work experience you have.
> 
> I did google ENG, and the context of this seems to fit the discussion:
> 
> https://www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-electronystagmogra
> From the site, here are the initial high points so you can determine if I found what you were referring to:
> 
> ENG is a series of sensory tests for your eyes and ears.
> 
> Do you ever get dizzy when you’re getting out of bed? Ever become nauseous when looking down from a great height? Have you felt like the world is moving even if you’re not?
> 
> It’s a common sensation, and it’s known as vertigo.
> 
> Tony


I really don’t get dizzy. I just lose my balance, which can occur at any time and doing any activity. It’s something that I can tolerate, but it’s very annoying. I also stumble at times with it, so I can look like I may have had 1 too many.
I had 2 ENG tests and the first one proved my point. The second test showed no traces, so it’s a come and go thing. I may end up having to live with it.


----------



## tbeltrans

911 said:


> I really don’t get dizzy. I just lose my balance, which can occur at any time and doing any activity. It’s something that I can tolerate, but it’s very annoying. I also stumble at times with it, so I can look like I may have had 1 too many.
> I had 2 ENG tests and the first one proved my point. The second test showed no traces, so it’s a come and go thing. I may end up having to live with it.


That is what happens to my brother too, apparently.  He still lives in Los Angeles and I live in the Twin Cities, so we haven't seen each other in years but we talk on the phone from time to time.  I believe him since he is always very clear in his explanations.

Tony


----------



## SetWave

I know nothing.
But, wondering if it's related to an inner ear problem.


----------



## tbeltrans

SetWave said:


> I know nothing.
> But, wondering if it's related to an inner ear problem.


I have no idea, but wouldn't a doctor be able to find that?

If I recall correctly, when a doctor determined that some aspect of balance issue I had a while back was some inner ear thing, he prescribed something for infection and one of those allergy pills.  That worked for me, but I would think that if the doctor felt that would work for my brother, he would have said so and written the prescription since that seems to be a standard treatment.  But then again, what do I know?   

Tony


----------



## boliverchadsworth

Gaer said:


> I only stated those because she asked for specifics.
> I am in no way in  hesteria.


that was not for you personally but rather the new media tv etc --get that??


----------



## Giantsfan1954

He was the president for crying out loud, I’m sure if the idiot in chief got it he’d get the same treatment
I watched Parkland last night, they spent plenty of time doing CPR and whatever else they had in 1963 to assist a president whose brains were all over the car.


----------



## MrPants

I got my shot about a week ago when they flew in a vaccination crew to do the local Inuit population. I figured it was free and they were here so why not. No reaction to the first shot at all - not even a sore arm which I normally get with the flu shot when I've had that one. 

There's only 1 case in the NWT, where I'm currently working, and that's a 1.4 million square km area so it's a pretty big place (Great Britain is 130,300 sq. km as a reference point).

I have a considerably greater chance of being killed by a predatory animal when out on the ice than contracting Covid but I still decided to take the shot anyway. What anybody else does is their choice. I could care less.


----------

