# Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?



## JonDouglas (Jul 16, 2021)

From IsraelNationalNews:

_Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry._​​_Health Ministry data on the wave of COVID outbreaks which began this May show that Israelis with immunity from natural infection were far less likely to become infected again in comparison to Israelis who only had immunity via vaccination._​​More at source.​​If natural immunity gives more protection, why the intense, nearly insane, push to isolate and vaccinate people who are not at risk?

Edit Update:  Thanks, @Devi.  I had forgotten to add it but made the correction above.


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## Devi (Jul 16, 2021)

It took a bit, but I think I found the IsraelNationalNews link:
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

Good find, by the way.


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## Devi (Jul 16, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> From IsraelNationalNews:
> If natural immunity gives more protection, why the intense, nearly insane, push to isolate and vaccinate people who are not at risk?


My guess is that there's money involved. And control.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 16, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> From IsraelNationalNews:
> 
> _Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry._​​_Health Ministry data on the wave of COVID outbreaks which began this May show that Israelis with immunity from natural infection were far less likely to become infected again in comparison to Israelis who only had immunity via vaccination._​​More at source.​​If natural immunity gives more protection, why the intense, nearly insane, push to isolate and vaccinate people who are not at risk?


What?  Who is not at risk of catching this virus?

Because if you get Covid and are vaccinated you will be less sick and have a greater chance of living though the infection.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 16, 2021)

Devi said:


> My guess is that there's money involved.


I disagree


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## Devi (Jul 16, 2021)

Aneeda: Got it.

I guess I'm not so much at risk because I've already had it, as has my husband. This was way before there was any vaccine.

Me: elderly, ::cough:: not so slim, and diabetic. Still here to tell the tale (it took three weeks, but wasn't all that bad).

Not saying that that will be anyone else's experience; just sayin'.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 16, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I disagree


There would seem to be some type of powerful force involved, given how the politicians in the U.S. have given orders that clearly violate the constitution (e.g., freedom of speech, assembly, travel, etc.) as well as common sense.  The bigger problem may be the electorate who let them do it out of fear.  It seems folks forgot H1N1 and how we managed to get through it without all this folderol and without crippling the economy and bringing on inflation and shortages.


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## Sunny (Jul 16, 2021)

Everything I've read or heard about this says that the vaccine is MUCH more effective against the disease than natural immunity (from having recovered from the disease).  And of course, many who get the disease are "recovering" in the grave.

Devi, sounds like you've been incredibly lucky.  There are also people who spend their lives smoking like chimneys, and somehow they never get lung cancer. So, what does that prove?  We have to go by the numbers.

JonDouglas, sounds to me like you are the one spewing fear, not the scientists and health workers who are trying to save your life.  This vaccine is almost 100% safe, and very effective in preventing a horrifying and too often, fatal illness.  That's the important point to focus on, not all this politically or economically motivated blather.


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## Devi (Jul 16, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Everything I've read or heard about this says that the vaccine is MUCH more effective against the disease than natural immunity (from having recovered from the disease).


I guess you didn't read the article I linked to, which contradicts what you've said. But anyway ...


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## Becky1951 (Jul 16, 2021)

Devi said:


> I guess you didn't read the article I linked to, which contradicts what you've said. But anyway ...


Don't bother Devi, she will just claim it's fake news..


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## Don M. (Jul 16, 2021)

"Natural vs. Vaccinated" seems, to me, to be a mute point.  The differences between the two are in the fractions of 1%....versus the millions who have been infected and/or died, all over the world.  ANY protection against this pandemic is Good, IMO.


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## Sunny (Jul 16, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Don't bother Devi, she will just claim it's fake news..


How precocious of you, Becky, to know what someone else "will claim" before they've claimed it.  In the old days, when there were circus acts, you would have been a big hit!


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## Becky1951 (Jul 16, 2021)

Sunny said:


> How precocious of you, Becky, to know what someone else "will claim" before they've claimed it.  In the old days, when there were circus acts, *you would have been a big hit!*


I could be considering your the one putting on the circus. You refuse to believe anything posted negative regarding these vaccines. 

Instead of reading the article and considering it might be true, your response was "Everything I've read or heard about this says that the vaccine is MUCH more effective against the disease than natural immunity (from having recovered from the disease)." 

Obviously you haven't read enough.


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## Sunny (Jul 16, 2021)

You couldn't be more wrong, Becky. But dealing with the facts doesn't seem to be important to you.

Earlier this week, I saw on the news something about the level of immunity being much less reliable in unvaccinated people who had recovered from the disease.  They had some immunity, but the vaccine was better. This article seems to be saying the opposite, at least in Israel. I have no idea which finding is correct. It could be that two different samples of patients yielded different results. Or as Don M. said, the percentage of difference is too small to be significant; it could vary day by day. Or maybe that politics has gotten in the way of the facts? With any ideas promulgated by the rabid anti-vaxxers, anything they claim is subject to a certain level of mistrust. They brought that on themselves.

In any case, you and your cohorts will believe what you have been programmed to believe; I'm out of this discussion, as it makes no difference at all to me. Thank God, I and my beloved family and friends are all vaccinated, and unless a horrible new variant pops up, I feel reasonably safe. Nearly everyone in my large condo building (all seniors) are vaccinated, and have happily returned to normal life. Last night our party room was bursting with people happily enjoying various games, and many were saying how wonderful it was to return to normal living.

I feel very sorry for the people in other parts of the world who are desperate to get the vaccine, and there is none available to them. And in most of those places, their death rate from Covid is enormous. So, where did the "natural immunity" fit in?


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## Becky1951 (Jul 16, 2021)

"Thank God, I and my beloved family and friends are all vaccinated, and unless a horrible new variant pops up"

It's already here. The Delta variant is causing breakthrough cases, and the numbers are rising here. Hospitalizations and deaths are rising due to it with breakthrough cases.


The point of natural immunity is those who have had Covid have better immunity then those who were vaccinated.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 16, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "Thank God, I and my beloved family and friends are all vaccinated, and unless a horrible new variant pops up"
> 
> It's already here. The Delta variant is causing breakthrough cases, and the numbers are rising here. Hospitalizations and deaths are rising due to it with breakthrough cases.
> 
> ...


It may be important to restate that getting the vaccine neither prevents you from getting covid nor giving it to others.  It will reduce the probability of each and ease the degree of illness should you contract it.    It is also wise to remember that the states that didn't lock down and mask up did no worse than the states that did and, in some cases, did better.  There's no silver bullet here that will stop covid in its tracks.  When covid fades away, there will be another strain/variant/whatever.  Being in reasonably good health for my age, my strategy was to vaccinate with something less experimental  and combine with gaining some natural immunity by being out and around.  So far, so good.


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## Granny B. (Jul 16, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> From IsraelNationalNews:
> 
> _Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry._​​_Health Ministry data on the wave of COVID outbreaks which began this May show that Israelis with immunity from natural infection were far less likely to become infected again in comparison to Israelis who only had immunity via vaccination._​​More at source.​​If natural immunity gives more protection, why the intense, nearly insane, push to isolate and vaccinate people who are not at risk?
> 
> Edit Update:  Thanks, @Devi.  I had forgotten to add it but made the correction above.


Since you have to contract the virus to gain the "natural immunity"  the problem is all those people who will not recover and die.* We are trying to prevent more needless deaths. We're over 624,000 deaths just in the US.  If a vaccination will save hundreds of thousands of deaths then I'm willing to help by being vaccinated and wearing a mask. Simple as that.

* And to me it doesn't matter that most of the people dying are over the median life expectancy—in reference to a point you seemed to be trying to make in another thread.


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## Don M. (Jul 16, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> The point of natural immunity is those who have had Covid have better immunity then those who were vaccinated.



That's if they Didn't die.  There are over 4 million...world wide....who are Very well protected as they lie in their graves.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 16, 2021)

Granny B. said:


> Since you have to contract the virus to gain the "natural immunity"  the problem is all those people who will not recover and die.* We are trying to prevent more needless deaths. We're over 624,000 deaths just in the US.  If a vaccination will save hundreds of thousands of deaths then I'm willing to help by being vaccinated and wearing a mask. Simple as that.
> 
> * And to me it doesn't matter that most of the people dying are over the median life expectancy—in reference to a point you seemed to be trying to make in another thread.


All I care to say about here is that it's now proven that covid deaths were greatly overstated and pre-existing conditions and immunity ignored.  This flu outbreak is really no scarier than any of the others (e.g., swine-flu, avian flu, Spanish flu, H1N1).  It's just been hyped to death and people have bought into the idea that its the pandemic of the ages. It isn't.   Some starter information on natural immunity HERE.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 16, 2021)

Don M. said:


> That's if they Didn't die.  There are over 4 million...world wide....who are Very well protected as they lie in their graves.


Yes if course. However those who have recovered from Covid have better immunity then those who got vaccinated. Good news for those people don't you think? I think so. 

That was the point of the article.
"Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?"​


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## ProTruckDriver (Jul 16, 2021)

Sunny said:


> This vaccine is almost 100% safe, and very effective in preventing a horrifying and too often, fatal illness.


The statement is false. Do you have a "Crystal Ball" on telling you what the side effects will be years down the road with these new vaccines? Please tell me how do you know the future that it will be almost 100% safe.


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## John cycling (Jul 16, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Earlier this week, I saw on the news something about



The big pharma controlled news, which is where you get all your "scientific" information.   



Don M. said:


> There are over 4 million...world wide....who are Very well protected as they lie in their graves.



That's a pharma controlled media lie and not true.

The truth is that no one has died from a virus. <--
But many people have died throughout history who were injected with poisonous vaccinations. <--

Both of you are so brainwashed that you can't see the truth when it smacks you in the face.
*"Oh no, the truth is a wrong conclusion!"* you mindlessly sputter, completely unable to think for yourselves.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 16, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Yes if course. However those who have recovered from Covid have better immunity then those who got vaccinated. Good news for those people don't you think? I think so.
> 
> That was the point of the article.
> "Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?"​


Let's also not forget that a good number of people went into this "pandemic" with various degrees of natural immunity already present.  Let's also not forget that social and mental conditions play an important part in the immune system.


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## Don M. (Jul 16, 2021)

John cycling said:


> That's a pharma controlled media lie and not true.
> 
> The truth is that no one has died from a virus. <--
> But many people have died throughout history who were injected with poisonous vaccinations. <--



Now, I understand your "position".   If this is an example of where you get your information, I can understand your seemingly totally wrong conclusions.  You would be better off accepting Tweets on Twitter as the truth.  

https://www.bitchute.com/video/99ZX4vva3of0/


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 16, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> There would seem to be some type of powerful force involved, given how the politicians in the U.S. have given orders that clearly violate the constitution (e.g., freedom of speech, assembly, travel, etc.) as well as common sense.  The bigger problem may be the electorate who let them do it out of fear.  It seems folks forgot H1N1 and how we managed to get through it without all this folderol and without crippling the economy and bringing on inflation and shortages.


I don’t think you can compare virus to virus.  I don’t see any violation to the constitution but then, I am not a constitutional expert.  We will get through this but we will be missing a great many people.  I supposed to be honest I will say while the deaths of all these people, world wide saddens me, I am ok cause MY family is fully vaccinated and everyone is ok.

I am going to start wearing a mask again indoors, though.  The delta Covid-19 virus risk is just too high to ignore.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 16, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Yes if course. However those who have recovered from Covid have better immunity then those who got vaccinated. Good news for those people don't you think? I think so.
> 
> That was the point of the article.
> "Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?"​


My son had COVID and got the vaccine so I figure he is as safe as you can be


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## win231 (Jul 16, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> All I care to say about here is that it's now proven that covid deaths were greatly overstated and pre-existing conditions and immunity ignored.  This flu outbreak is really no scarier than any of the others (e.g., swine-flu, avian flu, Spanish flu, H1N1).  It's just been hyped to death and people have bought into the idea that its the pandemic of the ages. It isn't.   Some starter information on natural immunity HERE.


Everyone would live forever if it wasn't for this damn virus.


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## ohioboy (Jul 17, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I don’t think you can compare virus to virus.  I don’t see any violation to the constitution but then, I am not a constitutional expert.


I'm not either, but Jon notes Constitutional concerns many American's had/have.

If Habeas Corpus can be suspended when the public safety requires it, surely other protections can be at least bended if not suspended. I remember years ago the Supreme Court ruled HC could be suspended for Guantanmo detainees as long as an adequate alternative remedy was in place. 

The freedom to travel is a basic fundamental right, but it can be limited, for say a person on probation that needs permission to leave his home state etc.

When the Spanish Flu of 1918 cancered the Country, the Bill of Rights did not apply to the states. Last year and in today's world they do. Is there a balance?

To avoid anything like the Black Plauge that Europe saw, measures had to be taken that conflicted with a democratic society's norms.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 17, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> I'm not either, but Jon notes Constitutional concerns many American's had/have.
> 
> If Habeas Corpus can be suspended when the public safety requires it, surely other protections can be at least bended if not suspended. I remember years ago the Supreme Court ruled HC could be suspended for Guantanmo detainees as long as an adequate alternative remedy was in place.
> 
> ...


Well, I don’t want to turn this into a constitutional debate cause as I said I am not even close to understanding a document that was written before TV.  . And like anything else is interpreted by far more educated minds than me, and those minds disagree.

However, I DISAGREE that the freedom to travel is a basic fundamental right.

Historically, the right to travel HAS NEVER BEEN a basic fundamental right in any country in the world.  Travel has always been “curbed”by the powers that be in some form or another from the beginning of the human race.

The fact that members of the elite or, let’s face facts, the white race have, in more modern times, been able to travel wherever was related more to their pocketbook and race than any supposed right.

As for health related issues, those issues, the protection of the public, have historically trumped the rights of the individual as far back as the time of JC when lepers lived in leper colonies and were denied access to the general population.  @ohioboy


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## ohioboy (Jul 17, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, I don’t want to turn this into a constitutional debate cause as I said I am not even close to understanding a document that was written before TV.
> 
> However, I DISAGREE that the freedom to travel is a basic fundamental right.


Well, my comment was per U.S. Supreme Court rulings, that makes it a fundamental liberty.


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## Don M. (Jul 17, 2021)

The way I see it....we ALL have some responsibility in helping to control this virus.  For Most, getting the vaccine is probably the best option, but for those who reject the vaccines, they should be willing to accept a lifestyle that limits their exposure to others.  These "spikes" are clear evidence that this virus is Far from eradicated, and is something we will have to live with for the foreseeable future.  

If large numbers of people continue to refuse to take this virus seriously, governments will have few options other than invoking more lockdowns, and strict public gathering policies.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 17, 2021)

"but for those who reject the vaccines, they should be willing to accept a lifestyle that limits their exposure to others"

Natural immunity vs vaccine immunity.  Natural immunity, those that have had Covid.  They don't need to take the vaccine. They don't need to do any different then those who have had the vaccine.


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## win231 (Jul 17, 2021)

Don M. said:


> The way I see it....we ALL have some responsibility in helping to control this virus.  For Most, getting the vaccine is probably the best option, but for those who reject the vaccines, they should be willing to accept a lifestyle that limits their exposure to others.  These "spikes" are clear evidence that this virus is Far from eradicated, and is something we will have to live with for the foreseeable future.
> 
> If large numbers of people continue to refuse to take this virus seriously, governments will have few options other than invoking more lockdowns, and strict public gathering policies.


How do you feel about requiring everyone to have a TB test?  Did you have a TB test before going near other people?  TB is airborne & very contagious; don't you have a responsibility to protect others by having a TV test every few weeks?  
_"Tuberculosis is carried in airborne particles, called *droplet nuclei*, of 1– 5 microns in diameter. Infectious droplet nuclei are generated when persons who have pulmonary or laryngeal TB disease cough, sneeze, shout, or sing. TB is spread from person to person through the air."_


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## Sunny (Jul 18, 2021)

The longer people keep ignoring common sense about this, the longer it will go on.


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## win231 (Jul 18, 2021)

Sunny said:


> The longer people keep ignoring common sense about this, the longer it will go on.


Well, at least the "Educated" people won't get it.


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## Sunny (Jul 18, 2021)

Or if we do, it will probably be a mild case. I'm grateful for that (although I'd rather not get any case at all).


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## ProTruckDriver (Jul 19, 2021)

Sunny said:


> This vaccine is almost 100% safe, and very effective in preventing a horrifying and too often, fatal illness. That's the important point to focus on, not all this politically or economically motivated blather.


I see there is no response to this. I guess because it can't be answered. None of us know about the long term effects now but we will a few years down the road. I hope all goes well to the people that were vaccinated. I wish they would come up with something for the people that can't make or make very few antibodies in their body. 
Btw: @Sunny  I'm sorry that I came across so strong about my statement in the previous post about the "Crystal Ball" but when a statement is made that an experimental vaccine is almost 100% safe and it hasn't been proven in the long term, that irritates me.


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