# Getting old has no benefits.



## Mitch86 (Mar 16, 2022)

The older I get, the more things I cannot do. My neck is bent over and I can barely operate a PC or watch TV.  I have totally forgotten how my TV remotes work.  I'll call the TV company for that.  Walking is getting difficult. Soon I will need a wheel chair.  Everyone I once knew is no DEAD.  Even family doesn't to talk to me  or visit me since it is too depressing for them.  My wife is still alive so we can talk to each other. If she dies, I will be all alone and may end up in a nursing home.


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## RFW (Mar 16, 2022)

I don't think anyone will object to that. It's an achievement for someone to have lived as long as you have though!


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## hollydolly (Mar 16, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> The older I get, the more things I cannot do. My neck is bent over and I can barely operate a PC or watch TV.  I have totally forgotten how my TV remotes work.  I'll call the TV company for that.  Walking is getting difficult. Soon I will need a wheel chair.  Everyone I once knew is no DEAD.  Even family doesn't to talk to me  or visit me since it is too depressing for them.  My wife is still alive so we can talk to each other. If she dies, I will be all alone and may end up in a nursing home.


Mitch, I mentioned this before to you... I feel that because you're in such pain, it's causing you understandable depression, I wonder if  it's possible for you to speak to your doctor about it..


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## Murrmurr (Mar 16, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> The older I get, the more things I cannot do. My neck is bent over and I can barely operate a PC or watch TV.  I have totally forgotten how my TV remotes work.  I'll call the TV company for that.  Walking is getting difficult. Soon I will need a wheel chair.  Everyone I once knew is no DEAD.  Even family doesn't to talk to me  or visit me since it is too depressing for them.  My wife is still alive so we can talk to each other. If she dies, I will be all alone and may end up in a nursing home.


Mitch, my mom didn't want to go into a nursing home, but when it ultimately became a necessity, we found a lovely one. She liked it! It took a couple of weeks, but once she got over the fact that she couldn't live with any of us kids anymore, she relaxed and made friends and started going to enjoy the weekly live entertainment, Bingo Night and other activities. She even got back to doing arts and crafts. So, there are benefits to living in a decent nursing home.

But you're not there yet, and maybe you'll never have to be. I know you appreciate each day for what it is right now, and I know it isn't easy but try to think of the things you CAN do and not the things you can't. You are company for your wife, that's one thing. Can you garden? Or even just grow a tomato plant or something (indoors or out)? Can you think of other such things that you _can_ do, big or small?

I sure wish you all the best, Mitch.


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## Bellbird (Mar 16, 2022)

Is there a social group in your area that calls or rings people to have a chat, it helps to break the day/week.


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## shedevil7953 (Mar 17, 2022)

I agree with you Mitch.  All of it.


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## bingo (Mar 17, 2022)

well...if we made it thru  all that...back there...surely we can make it a little  longer..
I think of all the  millions of people who  didn't  have  our comforts....

had to build a  fire. .cook....boil up water maybe...animals  to take care of...food was a luxury....

yeah...we can get thru it mitch


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## Paco Dennis (Mar 17, 2022)

I am only 70 and I feel that way a lot. The only thing that gives me piece is that I am getting one step closer....


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## feywon (Mar 18, 2022)

While i can understand your feelings given your health issues, and i don't relish all the physical changes i'm dealing with myself, i tend to think that like so many other things it varies with individuals. I seem to recall you have home health visits. If so you really should take @hollydolly's advice and talk with a provider about your state of mind. Or talk with your provider at next office appt.  Because nothing speeds up one's decline faster than feeling so unhappy in one's life.

Some things i see as benefits of aging:
Because i no longer have to answer to employer only my energy levels and the weather dictate what i do and when.  And i have more time to engage in things that enhance my quality of life.

The older i get the less i've cared what random people think of me, as long as they don't actually interfere with how i live, they can think whatever they like.

For women, it is often a downside that aging makes us almost invisible to many people. But being a person who values solitude, that's kind of a plus for me. Besides i know how to assert myself when necessary.

Do you and your wife talk about this feeling of yours? Does she share similar feelings?  If so, she should talk with a professional too.


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## Mitch86 (Mar 18, 2022)

feywon said:


> While i can understand your feelings given your health issues, and i don't relish all the physical changes i'm dealing with myself, i tend to think that like so many other things it varies with individuals. I seem to recall you have home health visits. If so you really should take @hollydolly's advice and talk with a provider about your state of mind. Or talk with your provider at next office appt.  Because nothing speeds up one's decline faster than feeling so unhappy in one's life.
> 
> Some things i see as benefits of aging:
> Because i no longer have to answer to employer only my energy levels and the weather dictate what i do and when.  And i have more time to engage in things that enhance my quality of life.
> ...


Funny that you and others brought up a "professional."  My brother had a psychiatrist  and died in his office 2 years ago. He had cancer, heart disease and COVID19.  In the end no one really knew what killed him. He was 83.  Personally, I think "professionals" like psychiatrists and psychologists push only BS.  They are a total waste of time.  They can NOT heal any illnesses we have.  They are the modern equivalent of the witch doctors in Africa.  The mind cannot reverse the decline and illnesses of aging all of which end in DEATH.  Personally, I don't believe in any "gods," heaven or hell. I only believe in one real Master of the Universe, DEATH!  Father Death rescues all of us at the end from pain and suffering by causing us to cease living upon which time all our problems are solved.  In the meantime I live each day as if it was my last enjoying my PC and all the game programs and other internet locations and just have FUN until Father Death claims me.


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## win231 (Mar 18, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> Funny that you and others brought up a "professional."  My brother had a psychiatrist  and died in his office 2 years ago. He had cancer, heart disease and COVID19.  In the end no one really knew what killed him. He was 83.  Personally, I think "professionals" like psychiatrists and psychologists push only BS.  They are a total waste of time.  They can NOT heal any illnesses we have.  They are the modern equivalent of the witch doctors in Africa.  The mind cannot reverse the decline and illnesses of aging all of which end in DEATH.  Personally, I don't believe in any "gods," heaven or hell. I only believe in one real Master of the Universe, DEATH!  Father Death rescues all of us at the end from pain and suffering by causing us to cease living upon which time all our problems are solved.  In the meantime I live each day as if it was my last enjoying my PC and all the game programs and other internet locations and just have FUN until Father Death claims me.


You have a reality-based mindset.  So do I.


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## Mr. Ed (Mar 18, 2022)

Without professionals we would know what is wrong with ourselves or seek professional help to tell us how to live. A true professional will always tell you what is wrong and seldom focus on what you are doing right. if professionals diagnosed you as happy and well rounded individuals you would hesitate continuing treatment. 
it is best we submit to poor health and mental disjunction to maintain and support the professional integrity of people who diagnose what is wrong.


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## feywon (Mar 18, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> Without professionals we would know what is wrong with ourselves or seek professional help to tell us how to live. A true professional will always tell you what is wrong and seldom focus on what you are doing right. if professionals diagnosed you as happy and well rounded individuals you would hesitate continuing treatment.
> it is best we submit to poor health and mental disjunction to maintain and support the professional integrity of people who diagnose what is wrong.


Sorry can't agree,  while i've known some professionals, both medical mental health ones with too narrow of views and pet theories they tend to blame for problems or credit with 'cures'. I'm a proactive patient and won't tolerate it.  Even when i have blood work done i want a copy of the the results.

Nor is it any professional's place to tell anyone how to live rather it is their job to help us see what options we have and the possible (rarely 100% predictable) outcomes for varous choices we make.


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## feywon (Mar 18, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> Funny that you and others brought up a "professional."  My brother had a psychiatrist  and died in his office 2 years ago. He had cancer, heart disease and COVID19.  In the end no one really knew what killed him. He was 83.  Personally, I think "professionals" like psychiatrists and psychologists push only BS.  They are a total waste of time.  They can NOT heal any illnesses we have.  They are the modern equivalent of the witch doctors in Africa.  The mind cannot reverse the decline and illnesses of aging all of which end in DEATH.  Personally, I don't believe in any "gods," heaven or hell. I only believe in one real Master of the Universe, DEATH!  Father Death rescues all of us at the end from pain and suffering by causing us to cease living upon which time all our problems are solved.  In the meantime I live each day as if it was my last enjoying my PC and all the game programs and other internet locations and just have FUN until Father Death claims me.


Well, forgive me for responding with a suggestion and for expressing my view on aging.
Thing is you rarely sound like you are having any fun at all.
I won't bother you anymore.  Wish you the best!


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## feywon (Mar 18, 2022)

win231 said:


> You have a reality-based mindset.  So do I.


Overly pessimistic views of life are no more realistic than overly optimistic, pollyannic ones.


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## Don M. (Mar 18, 2022)

"Aging" can be a real challenge.  I've watched several of my old friends.....most of which are now gone....suffer various ailments that made their latter years a real hassle.  I've got some arthritis issues, and my old teeth are slowly falling apart, but I try to make the best of it, and find something worthwhile to occupy my days.  Age eventually catches up with all of us, but trying to keep a positive attitude, and not getting stressed out over every little "setback" is perhaps the best approach.


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## Tish (Mar 18, 2022)

feywon said:


> Sorry can't agree,  while i've known some professionals, both medical mental health ones with too narrow a veiws and pet theoriesthey tend to blame for problems or credit with 'cures'. I'm a proactive patient and won't tolerate it.  Even when i have blood work done i want a copy of the the results.
> 
> Nor is it any professional's place to tell anyone how to live rather it is their job to help us see what options we have and the possible (rarely 100% predictable) outcomes for varous choices we make.


I agree with you 100%


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## Ruthanne (Mar 18, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> Funny that you and others brought up a "professional."  My brother had a psychiatrist  and died in his office 2 years ago. He had cancer, heart disease and COVID19.  In the end no one really knew what killed him. He was 83.  Personally, I think "professionals" like psychiatrists and psychologists push only BS.  They are a total waste of time.  They can NOT heal any illnesses we have.  They are the modern equivalent of the witch doctors in Africa.  The mind cannot reverse the decline and illnesses of aging all of which end in DEATH.  Personally, I don't believe in any "gods," heaven or hell. I only believe in one real Master of the Universe, DEATH!  Father Death rescues all of us at the end from pain and suffering by causing us to cease living upon which time all our problems are solved.  In the meantime I live each day as if it was my last enjoying my PC and all the game programs and other internet locations and just have FUN until Father Death claims me.


Thank you for that positive note...at the end


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## Mr. Ed (Mar 18, 2022)

Perspective is everything. Getting old almost always ensures a shorter mortality. 
Getting old lends new meaning to the phrase "pain in the butt". 
Enhanced appreciation for the little things that were once easy, but now difficult. 
Appreciation for bowel movements used to be so easy. 
Don't have to obey parents, their dead.  
Kids grown up don't have to take them to school.
I can eat and stay up as long as I want. 
I have no boss but I aim to please 
These are a few benefits of old age


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## Chet (Mar 18, 2022)

The way to deal with aging is not to think about it. Distract yourself with something you enjoy. Worry gets you nowhere.


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## win231 (Mar 18, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> Perspective is everything. Getting old almost always ensures a shorter mortality.
> Getting old lends new meaning to the phrase "pain in the butt".
> Enhanced appreciation for the little things that were once easy, but now difficult.
> Appreciation for bowel movements used to be so easy.
> ...


I didn't obey my parents when they were here.


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## Jan14 (Mar 18, 2022)

I am so sorry for all your pain.  You obviously are feeling a lot, inside and out. You are not alone, a lot of us are suffering along with you, believe me.       How wonderful that you still have your wife.  Being alone going thru your type struggles is very difficult, and a place that some of us find ourselves in already.   But you still have a will to live or you would probably be dead.  Try to muster up some positivity.  It really does have healing powers, and helps get you through difficult times.


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## HoneyNut (Mar 18, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> I have totally forgotten how my TV remotes work.



I wonder if they make TVs that have Siri/Alexa that we could just tell them out loud to turn on/off and change channel?   I remember when my father was old one time I came in to find him watching static on the TV because he couldn't work the remote.  I felt really sad about it.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 18, 2022)

win231 said:


> I didn't obey my parents when they were here.


Me either.


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## Jan14 (Mar 18, 2022)

I’m very impressed with the 80 something’s on here that navigate the internet so well.  A lot are more tech savvy than myself at age 60.  I have no idea how to fully use this site or download and share images, etc.  I have a tv I don’t use because I don’t want to read the instructions to a universal remote so that I can program it.


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## feywon (Mar 18, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> I wonder if they make TVs that have Siri/Alexa that we could just tell them out loud to turn on/off and change channel?   I remember when my father was old one time I came in to find him watching static on the TV because he couldn't work the remote.  I felt really sad about it.


We use Roku Streaming service.  They have a remote that has a microphone button,  when you push it a microphone icon appears in a corner and you can tell it what you need it to do: What channel, to search for movies or shows on a channel, to pause or resume.

I'm usually telling it 'Oops, pushed you by mistake.'


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## Nathan (Mar 18, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> Funny that you and others brought up a "professional."  My brother had a psychiatrist  and died in his office 2 years ago. He had cancer, heart disease and COVID19.  In the end no one really knew what killed him. He was 83.  Personally, I think "professionals" like psychiatrists and psychologists push only BS.  They are a total waste of time.  They can NOT heal any illnesses we have.  They are the modern equivalent of the witch doctors in Africa.  The mind cannot reverse the decline and illnesses of aging all of which end in DEATH.  Personally, I don't believe in any "gods," heaven or hell. I only believe in one real Master of the Universe, DEATH!  Father Death rescues all of us at the end from pain and suffering by causing us to cease living upon which time all our problems are solved.


Western medicine can do many amazing things, but they do not have much to offer to ease pain.  It seems like with every medical "solution" there is some undesirable side effect.    



Mitch86 said:


> In the meantime I live each day as if it was my last enjoying my PC and all the game programs and other internet locations and just have FUN until Father Death claims me.


If you're enjoying your time then I'd say that is a big plus.


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## Chris P Bacon (Mar 18, 2022)

The way that I see it, the biggest benefit of growing older has been not having to die young.
Everyone gets the chance to be young once but not everyone gets the chance to grow old.
Granted, it’s not ideal. Some days are better than others. But I plan on hanging in here for as long as it reasonably lasts. And I also plan to be reasonably cheerful whenever possible because I know it’s no fun to be around someone who’s consistently negative and complaining.


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## PamfromTx (Mar 18, 2022)

I have had many days of discomfort/pain but I keep myself going.  Life is too short to be so negative.  Live life to its' fullest!  Smile and try to be happy.  You are so very lucky to have lived a full life; many don't get that opportunity.


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## PamfromTx (Mar 18, 2022)




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## Jan14 (Mar 18, 2022)

PamfromTx said:


> View attachment 213680


I love pigs!


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## PamfromTx (Mar 18, 2022)

Chris P Bacon said:


> The way that I see it, the biggest benefit of growing older has been not having to die young.
> Everyone gets the chance to be young once but not everyone gets the chance to grow old.
> Granted, it’s not ideal. Some days are better than others. But I plan on hanging in here for as long as it reasonably lasts. And I also plan to be reasonably cheerful whenever possible because I know it’s no fun to be around someone who’s consistently negative and complaining.


View attachment 213681


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## Mitch86 (Mar 19, 2022)

I notice I can totally sublimate pain by keeping busy every minute playing computer games and going to internet chat rooms and forums like this one.  Even with my neck bent over at a steep angle, as you can see from my picture, I can still enjoy all the things on my PC.  By the way, I am MitchW and I access the chat room, channel 97, at the Internet Chess Club a lot.


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## Mr. Ed (Mar 19, 2022)

My brother, 3 years younger than me, knows nothing about computers or technology. He doesn't use data on his cell phone, recently in a conundrum because his cable provider tied the internet in with his cable tv. Sadly, he is not willing or motivated to change his lifestyle simply because he has resigned himself as unteachable. So sad, and he was the smart one who aced the GED exam without preparation. Go figure?


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## Chris P Bacon (Mar 19, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> My brother, 3 years younger than me, knows nothing about computers or technology. He doesn't use data on his cell phone, recently in a conundrum because his cable provider tied the internet in with his cable tv. Sadly, he is not willing or motivated to change his lifestyle simply because he has resigned himself as unteachable. So sad, and he was the smart one who aced the GED exam without preparation. Go figure?


Whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right. - Henry Ford


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## RFW (Mar 19, 2022)

Chris P Bacon said:


> The way that I see it, the biggest benefit of growing older has been not having to die young.
> Everyone gets the chance to be young once but not everyone gets the chance to grow old.
> Granted, it’s not ideal. Some days are better than others. But I plan on hanging in here for as long as it reasonably lasts. And I also plan to be reasonably cheerful whenever possible because I know it’s no fun to be around someone who’s consistently negative and complaining.


Oh . That hurt me deeply.


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## Chris P Bacon (Mar 19, 2022)

RFW said:


> Oh . That hurt me deeply​


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## JonSR77 (Mar 19, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> The older I get, the more things I cannot do. My neck is bent over and I can barely operate a PC or watch TV.  I have totally forgotten how my TV remotes work.  I'll call the TV company for that.  Walking is getting difficult. Soon I will need a wheel chair.  Everyone I once knew is no DEAD.  Even family doesn't to talk to me  or visit me since it is too depressing for them.  My wife is still alive so we can talk to each other. If she dies, I will be all alone and may end up in a nursing home.


 I am very very sorry to hear this Mitch.  I am 61.  I have profound injuries from car accidents.  It certainly is not an easy ride.

I live in constant, severe pain and I can't tolerate pain killers.

It is hardly an easy life.

I have great sympathy for all those who struggle in pain and difficulties.

And this has been going on for a long time.  My first serious problem happened way back in 1982.

What I would say, from experiencing great difficulties all this time...is that no matter how bad it gets, there is always some way, to see it in a better light.

Some joy, some beauty, some peace...will always pierce through the dark clouds a bit. May take a good deal of work to find it and feel it...but I do think it is always there.

One of my injuries was in my neck. It is still a problem. It was so bad that the natural "C" curve flattened out fully, and started to curve in the opposite direction.

What helped me was chiropractic work and also a similar therapy, called cranio-sacral therapy. I would certainly suggest that looking into both of those might help some.

And I would ask the therapist there for a specialized pillow that would work best for your neck problems. I sleep on a special pillow..it helps tremendously.

As a disabled person, I have had the same experience. Family and friends just don't want to interact much. But I would not give up on it all. Maybe just do less? You know, maybe just call relatives for birthdays and Holidays...and allow yourself a little bit of contact, even if it is not as much as you would like, or not have the quality of contact that you would like.

And always remember, that whatever burden we are to our relatives...it is THEIR duty to be accommodating to us, not the reverse. We are the ones in pain, who need and deserve proper attention and care.

I hope you can find your way to some peace and some happiness.


Take care now...


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## feywon (Mar 19, 2022)

@JonSR77  said:

"...that whatever burden we are to our relatives...it is THEIR duty to be accommodating to us, not the reverse. We are the ones in pain, who need and deserve proper attention and care."

As you read what I'm about say keep in mind that if my mother had survived her the stroke she had just weeks before her 60th birthday my brother and i would have stepped up to be caregivers despite our problematic relationships with her because her last spouse way too self absorbed and controlling to fill that roll well. Also i didn't hear from my beloved Dad from the time imy parents divorced when i was 11 till i physically went to his home when i was almost 20 totally unsure of the reception i would get (a story for a different time) but when he was terminally ill almost 30 years later my then husband, 11 yr old daughter and i cared for him his final weeks so he could die at home as he wished. 

Duty? Of whom? Which relatives? Parents,siblings, children, spouses?  That may sound reasonable to you, but when you consider the broad spectrum of family dynamics, it may not be.  
Does an abuse survivor have any duty or obligation to provide care for a now weak and vulnerable, yet often unrepentant abuser? And would that even be wise, safe?

We'll never know for sure how many cases of elder neglect or abuse stem from a reversal of roles.  But readings i did as part of BA studies suggest it a fairly common scenario. 

My Maternal Grandmother was physically and verbally abusive to her 3 daughters while spoiling her son. Yes she lived with my Uncle after grandpa died, but only till her inheritance from grandpa ran out and her only income was spousal SSA, cause she was never employed.  Then she lived with first my Mom, her youngest, for afew years and then the eldest till her issues required 24/7 supervision.  

The middle sister, who was most like their Mother (hypercritical and mean spirited) refused to be under the same roof except for big holiday meals, but at least contributed $$ to her care, while the son she so adored who had used her inheritance to relocate and set himself up well never contributed a dime.  

Even when she was in the nursing home her eldest and youngest visited regular, tho she was in and out of lucidity.  My eldest Aunt had medical power of attorney, and during the last year of grandma's life when her heart was stopping frequently the nursing home urged her to sign a DNR. She told them they'd have to catch her mother in a lucid moment  because Aunt Maddy didn't trust herself about it.  "Would I be signing it so she could be at peace, or so we could be finally free of her?" Is how she explained it to me, and yet she also faulted herself for how much her mother was suffering, hanging on to life.

One final question, do you really think the elderly are the only ones with pain and/or difficulties? 

Personally, if i thought my daughter  was here out of duty/obligation  now or in the future i would not want her with me.  Nor my sons.


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## David777 (Mar 19, 2022)

Those with some forms of painful terminal cancers face the same reality.  But then you aren't there yet.  Humans will usually do what they can to quickly end the lives of broken animals agonizing in pain on our highways.

Although the positives many have related are generally valid towards continuing life, the needle increasingly points in the other direction with pain and hopelessness.  At a vague level where pain cannot be reduced increases to a level that prevents a person from experiencing or doing much of anything worthwhile, the balance of life versus death is not too clear that any cheerleading has little value promoting.  Yes today medical science has powerful medicines to surpress pain but if the person left is relegated to cringing up in a ball in the corner or worse, that has little to offer continuing.  For those that may think otherwise, recall the last time you had a bad toothache passing the hours second by second before a dental appointment finally performed that root canal? What if that appointment wasn't an option?  So yeah @Mitch86 I can se where you are looking towards your possible future situation that you can hope isn't near.


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## helenbacque (Mar 19, 2022)

I'm happiest when I focus on the things I DO have and that I CAN do rather than what I DO NOT have and what I CANNOT do.  Aging demands mental as well as physical compromise.


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## Knight (Mar 19, 2022)

There is a benefit that seems to be missing.  LIVING TO REACH OLD AGE. Many threads have been posted where within the thread  posters have reflected on great memories as they aged.

I can't relate to what Mitch 86 is experiencing so this thread of his gives me a better understanding as to how fortunate I am.


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## Chris P Bacon (Mar 19, 2022)

Sometimes, maybe sadly but still, the benefit of old age is not to the benefit of the aged one but to those around them. Someone grumpy and dissatisfied with life, who constantly talks about how they long for it to be over with, when they get there, I suppose it would benefit those who were subjected to the negativity for the life’s duration of the unhappy one. I’m all for death with dignity but life without unnecessary frustration seems appealing too. Why not use induced comas?


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## Mitch86 (Mar 19, 2022)

Just to see how euthanasia  is handled these days, Physician-assisted suicide and euthanasia Physician-assisted suicide and/or voluntary active euthanasia has been legalized in a few countries. PAS is legal in Switzerland, the Netherlands. and the U.S. state of Oregon and active euthanasia is legal in the Netherlands and Belgium.

The big question is society right to let their citizens dwell in terrible pain for years without any choices or should Euthanasia be legalized.  However, here in America we have Living Wills and Advanced Directives whereby anyone can refuse all all medication including nutrition and hydration when they face serious pain with no hope of recovery.  I have a Living Will and Advanced Directive just "in case."

At least 47 states have adopted laws allowing living wills or advance medical directives, and 11 of them placed restrictions on advance directives for pregnant individuals. Besides Idaho, the others are Alabama, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and Wisconsin, according to Legal Voice.

One organization helping folks exit insoluble pain and suffering is Exit International which can be reached here:

https://www.exitinternational.net/


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## JonSR77 (Mar 20, 2022)

feywon said:


> @JonSR77  said:
> 
> "...that whatever burden we are to our relatives...it is THEIR duty to be accommodating to us, not the reverse. We are the ones in pain, who need and deserve proper attention and care."
> 
> ...


sorry if my post was upsetting in any way.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 20, 2022)

so sorry about all the difficulties.


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## RFW (Mar 20, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> so sorry about all the difficulties.


Hey Jon. Thought I should say something here. Whenever my PTSD kicks into high gear, it always compels me to abandon all hope as I am nothing but a burden to my family. But the thought of family losing me stops me every time especially when there's one nearby. While I don't think they should be responsible for the illness they had no part in, they are undeniably the ones who keep me alive to this day. I see some truth in your words.

I appreciate your candor, nonetheless.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 21, 2022)

RFW said:


> Hey Jon. Thought I should say something here. Whenever my PTSD kicks into high gear, it always compels me to abandon all hope as I am nothing but a burden to my family. But the thought of family losing me stops me every time especially when there's one nearby. While I don't think they should be responsible for the illness they had no part in, they are undeniably the ones who keep me alive to this day. I see some truth in your words.
> 
> I appreciate your candor, nonetheless.


I am a former monastic. I am quite confident in my opinions about humanity and compassion.


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## feywon (Mar 21, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> sorry if my post was upsetting in any way.





JonSR77 said:


> so sorry about all the difficulties.


Thank you, but my reaction is born of my experiences and of having known way too many people who were neglected and/or abused as children. As well as the knowledge that dysfunction and abuse is often passed from generation to generation and how hard it can be to break the cycle.

 You were looking it at it from one perspective.  I was seeing it thru the eyes of people dear to me who agonized over doing right by aging relatives, and suffered further for theIr choice to do right. 

I was not upset with you personally just the idea that people should feel obligated to cater to elders no matter how those elders had behaved toward them. I'm sorry for coming on so strong.


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## feywon (Mar 21, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> Just to see how euthanasia  is handled these days, Physician-assisted suicide and euthanasia Physician-assisted suicide and/or voluntary active euthanasia has been legalized in a few countries. PAS is legal in Switzerland, the Netherlands. and the U.S. state of Oregon and active euthanasia is legal in the Netherlands and Belgium.
> 
> The big question is society right to let their citizens dwell in terrible pain for years without any choices or should Euthanasia be legalized.  However, here in America we have Living Wills and Advanced Directives whereby anyone can refuse all all medication including nutrition and hydration when they face serious pain with no hope of recovery.  I have a Living Will and Advanced Directive just "in case."
> 
> ...


This i agree with you on, we each should be able to define when our 'quality of life' has drops below an acceptable level.


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## feywon (Mar 21, 2022)

RFW said:


> Hey Jon. Thought I should say something here. Whenever my PTSD kicks into high gear, it always compels me to abandon all hope as I am nothing but a burden to my family. But the thought of family losing me stops me every time especially when there's one nearby. While I don't think they should be responsible for the illness they had no part in, they are undeniably the ones who keep me alive to this day. I see some truth in your words.
> 
> I appreciate your candor, nonetheless.


Chronic depression had me suicidal for some 15 years. While my NDE was a major turning point having children cinched it, no matter how bad things were i would not send that message to my kids and now grandson that their love was not enough to keep me here as long as possible, feasible, reasonable.

That said, we have had quality of life discussions and they understand that it would not be acceptable to me to live hooked up to machines unable to do anything for myself or even communicate with them.


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## RFW (Mar 21, 2022)

feywon said:


> Chronic depression had me suicidal for some 15 years. While my NDE was a major turning point having children cinched it, no matter how bad things were i would not send that message to my kids and now grandson that their love was not enough to keep me here as long as possible, feasible, reasonable.
> 
> That said, we have had quality of life discussions and they understand that it would not be acceptable to me to live hooked up to machines unable to do anything for myself or even communicate with them.


It's sad that for some people it isn't enough reason to keep living.


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## helenbacque (Mar 21, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> I am a former monastic.


What order, if I may ask?


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## feywon (Mar 21, 2022)

RFW said:


> It's sad that for some people it isn't enough reason to keep living.


Very sad, for all involved. My 2nd hubby's father was Navy Viet Vet.  He was on a transport ship, never really saw combat, just the devastating effects of it on troops going home. From everything i heard he'd had some emotional issues anyway (too tightly wound, controlling) the  "Survivors Guilt" he felt after returning from Nam was a 'last straw'.  He shot himself in his bedroom knowing his teen children were at home at the time.  My DH and his sister, who had been my friend (still is on FB) before i married him,  were in HS--they found him.  As difficult a father as he was (abusive when home to them and their Mom) it was a devastating loss for them and cemented their loyalty to each other (and two other siblings) above all other relationships. Which was a mixed blessing throughout their lives.


Because i was 16 when brother born and read a great deal about child development because i spent so much time caring for him, i was perhaps more aware than most that kids are always watching/listening.  When what we say and what we do conflict they pay more attention to what we do.  We should strive to send clear message and set models for coping with difficulties--or we should not have had children. i respect survivors of difficult childhoods that make that choice too.


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## Mitch86 (Mar 24, 2022)

I keep repeating many times during the day the following motto to live a good life when facing difficult problems: God grant me the Serenity to ACCEPT the things I cannot change, the courage and energy to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.  That includes pain and suffering.


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## Vida May (Mar 29, 2022)

If we are decidedly lifelong learners, our brains improve with age.  I look back on my younger years with horror!  Especially my time as a mother makes me think it is amazing children survive their young parents.   We become better parents after age 30 and by the time we are grandparents and great grandparents we are even better.  I think the worse that can happen to humanity is raising children without grandparents!  

That is not the only way our brains improve with age.  In case you find that hard to believe, I am throwing in some research.  




> Results of long-term studies show that — contrary to stereotypes — we actually grow smarter in key areas in middle age which, with longer life spans, now stretches from our mid 40s to our mid to late 60s. *In areas as diverse as vocabulary and inductive reasoning, our brains function better than they did in our 20s.*Feb 3, 2010
> 
> Brain Functions That Improve with Age - Harvard Business ...​


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## dseag2 (Mar 29, 2022)

Jan14 said:


> I’m very impressed with the 80 something’s on here that navigate the internet so well.  A lot are more tech savvy than myself at age 60.  I have no idea how to fully use this site or download and share images, etc.  I have a tv I don’t use because I don’t want to read the instructions to a universal remote so that I can program it.


Amen!


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## dseag2 (Mar 29, 2022)

I am empathetic to Mitch's post because I have no idea how I will feel when I am his age.  I am happy to be a healthy, mobile 64 year-old but I also realize my health and mobility can be taken away from me at any time.  I am prone to anxiety and depression, so if I am diagnosed with some serious illness I have no idea how it will affect me. 

I will keep doing everything I can to stave off aging, but it catches up to all of us at some point.  I only hope I will have a positive enough outlook to see me through it.  I feel for you @Mitch86.  I know I will be in your shoes at some point.  Please continue to use this forum as a place to share your feelings.  We are all here for you.


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## Mitch86 (Mar 30, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I am empathetic to Mitch's post because I have no idea how I will feel when I am his age.  I am happy to be a healthy, mobile 64 year-old but I also realize my health and mobility can be taken away from me at any time.  I am prone to anxiety and depression, so if I am diagnosed with some serious illness I have no idea how it will affect me.
> 
> I will keep doing everything I can to stave off aging, but it catches up to all of us at some point.  I only hope I will have a positive enough outlook to see me through it.  I feel for you @Mitch86.  I know I will be in your shoes at some point.  Please continue to use this forum as a place to share your feelings.  We are all here for you.


Thanks for the confidence.  At 87 I KNOW nothing can harm me since Father Death is close at hand to end all pain and suffering for me.  The closer we come to the end, the less we suffer since it all ends sooner.


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## Shalimar (Mar 30, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> I am very very sorry to hear this Mitch.  I am 61.  I have profound injuries from car accidents.  It certainly is not an easy ride.
> 
> I live in constant, severe pain and I can't tolerate pain killers.
> 
> ...


You are an inspiration. This made me cry. Thank you. With your permission, I would like to make a copy of this for my online therapy group. Some are really struggling. You speak far more eloquently than I ever could.


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## Jan14 (Mar 30, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> Thanks for the confidence.  At 87 I KNOW nothing can harm me since Father Death is close at hand to end all pain and suffering for me.  The closer we come to the end, the less we suffer since it all ends sooner.


Death. inevitable to us all.  Some sooner than others buddy. Hang in there!


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