# Pet Happiness



## Gardenlover (Feb 14, 2020)

@gennie 's post #54 in the thread about snakes is the catalyst for starting this one, as I didn't want to derail that interesting thread.

How does an owner of a pet determine if it is truly happy? I enjoyed a 180-gallon saltwater aquarium for years. People would argue in person and in forums that for certain fish to be happy (Yellow Tangs for example) you had to have at least a 180-gallon aquarium. I always thought it a bit odd, as a 180 tank is still a drop in the bucket compared to the ocean from which fish are captured. The fish would eat and swim around but not breed (Although there have been advances in this area). There was too little data to determine if the fish's life span increased or decreased in captivity. I also had a 20 gallon freshwater tank for a pair of Siamese fighting fish, also known as bettas, which are typically kept in a very small bowl. The fish tended to stay in the same corner of the tank. Were they happy? 

With some pets like dogs and cats it's a bit easier to see if they are happy, but with many other pets I think humans tend to project a convoluted sense of happiness onto the pets in their care. Are birds, fish, snakes, spiders, and other little balls of fur as happy as their owners think they are, or would they be happier left in the wild?

What are your thoughts?


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## jujube (Feb 14, 2020)

As far as fish, snakes, spiders, lizards, etc......I'm not sure that the concept of "happiness" enters into their lives.  Hunger, need for warmth, urge to mate?  Yes, that's elemental.   If they're fed and living at the right temperature, I think that's the nearest to "happy" they can get.


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## Gardenlover (Feb 14, 2020)

jujube said:


> As far as fish, snakes, spiders, lizards, etc......I'm not sure that the concept of "happiness" enters into their lives.  Hunger, need for warmth, urge to mate?  Yes, that's elemental.   If they're fed and living at the right temperature, I think that's the nearest to "happy" they can get.


Interesting . So, if pets don't mate in captivity this might be an indicator that they are not happy? Are there different levels of cognizance in the animal kingdom? I believe there are, but have no idea where the differences begin.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Feb 14, 2020)

I don't want to derail your thread either but I was thinking about the snakes being happy. They are usually kept in a small enclosure kind of wrapped up around themselves. I was wondering if they ever want to stretch out to be more comfortable.

We kept fish also. We tried several times to keep sea horses.I'm sure they have a name other than sea horses but I can't remember. They usually died within a week.They sure weren't happy.

It seemed like the Neons enjoyed their life when swimming in a school yet when only one remained it didn't look like he missed the others. It was hard to tell.


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## Gardenlover (Feb 14, 2020)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> I don't want to derail your thread either but I was thinking about the snakes being happy. They are usually kept in a small enclosure kind of wrapped up around themselves. I was wondering if they ever want to stretch out to be more comfortable.
> 
> We kept fish also. We tried several times to keep sea horses.I'm sure they have a name other than sea horses but I can't remember. They usually died within a week.They sure weren't happy.
> 
> It seemed like the Neons enjoyed their life when swimming in a school yet when only one remained it didn't look like he missed the others. It was hard to tell.


I don't know of anyone who was able to keep sea horses alive long term. I find it sad that pet stores even carry creatures that won't survive in captivity.


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## jujube (Feb 14, 2020)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> I don't want to derail your thread either but I was thinking about the snakes being happy. They are usually kept in a small enclosure kind of wrapped up around themselves. I was wondering if they ever want to stretch out to be more comfortable.
> 
> We kept fish also. *We tried several times to keep sea horses*.I'm sure they have a name other than sea horses but I can't remember. They usually died within a week.They sure weren't happy.
> 
> It seemed like the Neons enjoyed their life when swimming in a school yet when only one remained it didn't look like he missed the others. It was hard to tell.



We got a dozen male seahorses because my late husband took a notion to breed them.  One bit the....uh....dust.....immediately.  So now we had eleven.  When it looked like they were thriving well, we bought them a nice healthy girlfriend.  If you don't know, the lads are the ones who have to carry the eggs, but they need a lady friend to "get things jiggy". 

We introduced her into the aquarium.  She swished around fetchingly, with that old "helllooooo, sailor" air; she was definitely interested in doing the nasty. The boys immediately went into a panic and all eleven disappeared into the coral and refused to come out until we removed her.  Twice more we introduced her with the same results.  Just our luck.....eleven gay seahorses.

We put her behind a barrier in the aquarium to see if absence would make the heart grow fonder.  Nope.

A couple weeks later, we took off for the weekend and left an automatic feeder going.  If they were human teenagers, there would have been a keg party and _somebody_ would have been knocked up by midnight.  Instead, the tank heater malfunctioned and cooked the lot of them.  Party over.  

End of the seahorse endeavor forever.


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## Keesha (Feb 14, 2020)

Eleven gay seahorses 
Oddly enough it was only recently that I read that it’s the males that get pregnant. I hadn’t known that before. It’s quite interesting. Thanks for the fun story.
You’re a blast.


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## win231 (Feb 14, 2020)

I also thought about that many years ago & decided not to get any pet that needs a cage.  I also don't think birds are happy in a cage - especially large parrots whose wings have to be clipped so they can't fly.


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## Gaer (Feb 14, 2020)

Sorry, I didn't know how to contact you Gardenlover, because I haven't got the hang of this site yet.  So, I'm posting a message to you here.  I thought you were a woman, sorry.  But I looked up your profile and you are not only a fellow Libra, you were born on my birthday!  I'm sure I'm a great deal older than you but the October birthday is the same!  Isn't that awesome?


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## Gary O' (Feb 14, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> Are birds, fish, snakes, spiders, and other little balls of fur as happy as their owners think they are, or would they be happier left in the wild?


As far as critters from the wild, other than an aged toothless cougar, my buddy kept, 
I've only had a bit of experience with my son's wolf pup

Kept him a few weeks while my son was out to sea, fishing
Loved to nip
Not one to mind
Cute howl, though

I have had the pleasure of observing large and small beings in the wild
I do believe they're most happy in their natural habitat

Happy being penned?

Would you be?


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## Gardenlover (Feb 15, 2020)

Gaer said:


> Sorry, I didn't know how to contact you Gardenlover, because I haven't got the hang of this site yet.  So, I'm posting a message to you here.  I thought you were a woman, sorry.  But I looked up your profile and you are not only a fellow Libra, you were born on my birthday!  I'm sure I'm a great deal older than you but the October birthday is the same!  Isn't that awesome?


Glad you're here @Gaer . The monkier I use is a tough one to determine which sex it may be associated, no worries. It's one reason I always put a bit about myself in the profile section. October birthdays are the best.  I turned 60 last year and now I'm looking for the fountain of youth.


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## Gaer (Feb 16, 2020)

60?  You're just a baby!  I thought this website was for the elderly and everyone seems to be so young!  My apologies for taking the post off track!


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## Gardenlover (Feb 16, 2020)

Gaer said:


> 60?  You're just a baby!  I thought this website was for the elderly and everyone seems to be so young!  My apologies for taking the post off track!


I don't get to hear that as often as I'd like.


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## Ruthanne (Feb 17, 2020)

I feel my pets are happy.  They play and enjoy our family life.  I try to keep them in pet toys.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 29, 2020)

I've had a ten gallon and twenty gallon fresh water fish tank in my younger days, never had luck with fish, they passed one by one until I just gave up....maybe I killed them with kindness.   I would have loved a saltwater aquarium, we vacationed in Hawaii a couple of times years back and snorkeled, the beautiful fish we saw were just like in the fancy fish pet stores.  My husband wanted one more than once, but I discouraged him.  I would be the one taking care of those exotic fish (or trying to), and then when we went away for a few weeks on vacation we'd have to get someone in to care for them, etc.

 I think some animals like snakes, turtles, etc. are probably happier in the wild, but they're not spoiled in the wild.  With a caring owner they can have a good life with appropriate room, bedding, enclosure and food....perhaps loving attention.  Unfortunately, I think a lot of those types of pets are put in a tank and ignored for the most part, perhaps with inadequate lighting or improper temps.....they would definitely be happier in their own natural environment.

I know my cat and dog wouldn't like to be out there in the wild and feral.  My cat is a big purrer and lets me know every day that he's happy and content.  On the rare occasion that he doesn't purr, I know he's not well, thankfully that doesn't happen very often.  My dog isn't a big tail wagger, but I know he's happy, he gets quality food and treats, has the run of the house, sleeps in bed with me and follows me around like my shadow all day.  He gets nice long daily walks in the park and runs free when we go on camping trips.


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## Gardenlover (Mar 1, 2020)

SeaBreeze said:


> I've had a ten gallon and twenty gallon fresh water fish tank in my younger days, never had luck with fish, they passed one by one until I just gave up....maybe I killed them with kindness.   I would have loved a saltwater aquarium, we vacationed in Hawaii a couple of times years back and snorkeled, the beautiful fish we saw were just like in the fancy fish pet stores.  My husband wanted one more than once, but I discouraged him.  I would be the one taking care of those exotic fish (or trying to), and then when we went away for a few weeks on vacation we'd have to get someone in to care for them, etc. ...


Although I love saltwater aquariums - nothing was as peaceful for me. I got out of the hobby as someone would have to babysit the tank while we were gone. When we began leaving for months at a time, the tanks had to go. Thankfully, a friend ran a saltwater fish store and bought everything I was willing to sell. I was happy to recoup a fraction of what I spent over the years.


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