# Lifers vs. draftees.



## fuzzybuddy (Mar 17, 2020)

I was a Corpsman in the US Navy (68-72). I was stationed in NYC, at the St. Albans Naval Hosp. I liked it there and, if I were allowed to stay there, I'd do 20 years. BUT , I was sent to GTMO. Of all the things I did, for which I could have gone to brig, it was Mickey Mouse stuff that almost put me there. The Admiral was out playing golf, and got coral dust under his contact lenses. Wearing a tee and shorts, he came to my Eye clinic. I cleaned his lenses and sent him on his way. Next thing I know, I'm up on charges for dereliction of duty, etc, etc. I neglected to inform the O.D. that the Admiral was on hospital property. so they could raise his flag up. over the hosp. I was facing 30 days in the brig. My head doctor saved me. For me, it was 4 years, and out. I could have very easily been a "lifer", but the Mickey Mouse stuff was hard to take. There was a rift between lifers and draftees. I came down on the side of the "draftee". Which & why did you end up a lifer or draftee?


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## oldman (Mar 17, 2020)

My dad was a lifer in the Army retiring as a First Sergeant (NCO).


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## jerry old (Mar 17, 2020)

1963-66, Germany-beer was 10 cents a bottle, if you walked to the tiny
German Village it was 25 cents.
the army priced beer cheap so the troops would stay on base; they were
apprehensive that the troops would go to town, get drunk and 'cause an
incident.'
getting drunk, fighting, raising hell is what troops do, never understood
why the brass was so concerned when we got drunk, fought among ourselves.  
'But sir, we were on base.'


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## Llynn (Mar 17, 2020)

The "Great Navy Chicken" was also my reason for exiting the USN.  I was working nights so midnight rations (MIDRATS) were my main meal of the day. One night I was particularly hungry so I took two hamburgers. The MAA (Master at Arms) attending the mess deck decided no one should have more than one burger so he wrote me up. I had to go before the Captain, who stared at the MAA in amazement and dismissed my charges. Even though the Captain didn't punish me that's the moment I resolved not to ship over.


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## squatting dog (Mar 17, 2020)

Not a lifer or a draftee. I enlisted, did my time and got out.


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## Don M. (Mar 17, 2020)

I thoroughly enjoyed my time in the USAF.  I had a years technical training in electronics, which set me up for a nice lifetime career.  After the school, I was sent to Germany for the remainder of my tour.  I got to liking it over there so much that I took an early discharge, and re-upped for 4 more years.  I was able to stay in Germany for almost 4 years....traveled a lot, and found my wife (we'll celebrate our 55th in May).  After Germany, I came back to N. Carolina for a few months, then was sent to Thailand, where I spent all of 1967....as that Vietnam war mess was shifting into high gear.  A year of that was enough...I took my discharge, and began a normal life.


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## fmdog44 (Mar 17, 2020)

With the draft I went in on Feb. of 1969 and saw a herd of shiftless bums and give-a-shits and  young guys that never heard of Viet Nam. I hated all drill sergeants and officers and the war. I exited that ship of fools after 6 months.


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## Pepper (Mar 17, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> With the draft I went in on Feb. of 1969 and saw a herd of shiftless bums and give-a-shits and  young guys that never heard of Viet Nam. I hated all drill sergeants and officers and the war. *I exited that ship of fools after 6 months.*


How did you do that, make the exit I mean?


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## squatting dog (Mar 17, 2020)

Pepper said:


> How did you do that, make the exit I mean?


I wondered that also.


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## Pecos (Mar 17, 2020)

I went in when I was 17 and stayed for over 31 years. Nine years enlisted to E-7, three years as a Warrant, and the rest as an Officer retiring as an O-5. I enjoyed the work that I did, and overall I was well treated (with a few exceptions).

All enlistments and experiences in the military are unique. I saw enough that I cannot fault people who get out.

Along my path I encountered idiots, very competent people, sorry stations and ships, wonderful stations and ships.

Being in the military works for some and not for others, it is as simple as that. 

Oh, you do need a very durable sense of humor if you stay in. The more senior I got, the more I needed it.

At some point, I realized that the greatest power I had was the "power to forgive."


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## Gardenlover (Mar 17, 2020)

Pecos said:


> I went in when I was 17 and stayed for over 31 years. Nine years enlisted to E-7, three years as a Warrant, and the rest as an Officer retiring as an O-5. I enjoyed the work that I did, and overall I was well treated (with a few exceptions).
> 
> All enlistments and experiences in the military are unique. I saw enough that I cannot fault people who get out.
> 
> ...


Wise words here


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## fuzzybuddy (Mar 19, 2020)

I was stationed in GTMO. It was lunch time and I was out of cigarettes. I hoped in my car and drove the 1/4 mile to the Exchange, ran , and got them. I was not wearing "my cover", that F****** dixie cup of a hat. I hate hats, and that thing in particular. I came back to the hospital. I was standing in my Eye Clinic, when this Lt. comes in. He tells me that he saw me in the Exhange. WITHOUT my cover. Horrors!!!!! He followed me from the Exchange, all the way back to the hospital, and to my clinic. Just then, my doc, a Lt Commander , came in. The Lt. told of my "crime".  Then my doc told the Lt. to get lost. That was the kind of Mickey Mouse stuff that irked me. Do you really think not wearing a hat was the crime of the century?  Was that enough to waste your life following someone? Who does that??
I won't tell you the time they forgot to wake me, I was late, and  then, I didn't make my bunk.  If you think not wearing a hat was a crime.......
I am proud that I gave 100% to being a good  Corpsman, and most of the guys did also. But some are meant to be civilians.


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## jerry old (Mar 19, 2020)

oh yea, that mickey mouse nonsenses makes you grit your teeth

Then the peaches and cream, "well private, your short, time to think about
making the army your career,...I'll give you another stripe, sign here."

This was during the Vietnam war, not a time to reup-your know your butt
would be Vietnam bounds.  maybe it is different today, don't know?


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## Knight (Mar 19, 2020)

Was on my way to becoming a lifer because I made E-6 Adj1 . As with the others Mikey Mouse decision by a female officer changed my sea duty orders  from Subic bay to a fighter squadron based at Miramar in San Diego I had 3 months until my 2nd enlistment was up. Thankfully the time left made it possible for me to spend those last 3 months working in station admin.


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## fmdog44 (Mar 21, 2020)

Pepper said:


> How did you do that, make the exit I mean?


Just convince then you are not military material. There were so many antiwar personnel in the armed services back then it was easy to do.


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## Damaged Goods (Mar 23, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> With the draft I went in on Feb. of 1969 and saw a herd of shiftless bums and give-a-shits and  young guys that never heard of Viet Nam. I hated all drill sergeants and officers and the war. I exited that ship of fools after 6 months.



That sounds like you were Natl. Guard or Army Reserve rather than a draftee or enlisted man.  The reservists and Guardsmen were sent for six months active duty for basic tng. and AIT and then returned home for reserve service.

That was a desirable gig back then because the majority of guard and reserve units didn't go overseas to the bush.  At most, they may have participated in the race riots and hippie uprisings.

Either that or you got out on a Section 8.  I was in basic with a guy with a psychological background and he convinced the army docs that he was mentally unfit.  Got himself a medical discharge, fully honorable.  To add insult to injury, he persuaded the VA docs to give him a service-connected disability rating.

Had a nice career as a self-employed psych therapist before retiring.


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## fuzzybuddy (Mar 23, 2020)

Way back in 1968, we had a bunch of recruits, who really weren't physically unable to be in the service. At that time, if you were in the service for 30 days, your future medical treatments would be paid by the VA. We had guys, who were sponsored by Congressman So & So, and they put in their 30 days, and  then, they were immediately  medically discharged, with full benefits. At first, I couldn't understand why nobody realized how bad off those guys were.  Why enlist someone, who physically couldn't perform any of their duties? Until it was explained about the 30 day provision.  I remember this one guy, who was pretty physically messed up , trying to keep up when we were marching.  He gave it his all, and I admired his determination. It's just that his body couldn't hack it. He suffered so much.

BTW, in the US Navy were the lifers-20+year guys. Enlistees, for usually 4 years. and then Reservists, who were there for two weeks. Which ever group you were in detested  the other two.


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## jerry old (Mar 23, 2020)

I was in a jeep, an idiot was driving, attempted to jump a 10 foot ditch while
driving 20 miles an hour. 
I was paralyzed for a period of time, spent 3 months in neurological hospital.

The troops with back problems were on one side of ward, troops with
migraine problems were on the other.
I had *no idea of migraine problems*: those poor guys endured unbelievable pain, screaming, requiring several medics and nurses to hold them in bed.
a real education.

I became friendly with a troop that had been paralyzed with migraine problems for six months.  He  was slowly regaining use of his limbs.
He could use his arms, but still couldn't walk.

Here's the Rub-this was a life-long condition:

*He had experienced severe migraine problems all his life*.
*When he was drafted he took his medical record to his army physical*.
*He should have been 4F, but they drafted him anyway.*
This is why the army is a chicken____ organization.

He wanted out of the army! He was not going to get disability check from
the VA, because it was a pre-existing condition.

I left the hospital after  three months. He remained, never knew what happened to him.

With all it's Chicken ____ ways, I still think the draft is best, professional soldiers scare me.


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## Manatee (Apr 26, 2020)

I was an E-5 USNR when my time was up.  If I chose to stay and become USN, I automatically would become an E-4.  I went back to being a civilian.


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## Grampa Don (Apr 27, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> BTW, in the US Navy were the lifers-20+year guys. Enlistees, for usually 4 years. and then Reservists, who were there for two weeks. Which ever group you were in detested  the other two.


Funny, I never sensed any of that.  Maybe I was lucky.  Like I said, I was a reservist and served two years active duty.  I had a lot of respect for the career guys.  It just wasn't the thing for me.

Don


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## jujube (Apr 27, 2020)

My late husband got into trouble with his C.O. because I wasn't going to the NCO Wives' Club meetings.  

"She doesn't want to go."

"Well, MAKE her go!"

"I can't make her go if she doesn't want to."

"YOU CAN'T CONTROL YOUR WIFE???"

That was funny coming from a man whose wife was a notorious shoplifter.  Apparently he went to the AFEX on a regular basis to pay for what she had taken.  But she was an officer's wife, and apparently they don't have to be *controlled*.  

My husband couldn't get out fast enough.  49 months was 48 months, 3 weeks and 6 days too long.


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## jerry old (Apr 27, 2020)

It depends on what type of unit your stationed in:

Some:  Just do your job, we'll leave you alone.

Others: Think boot camp is a perpetual behavior and want
only 'strike' soldiers.  They make duty a drudgery and sour troops.


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## jerry old (Apr 27, 2020)

Read this page again, the armed services is what your post
commanders wants it to be.
Some are okay, others want 'mad dog warriors,'  which is okay
(I suppose) in boot camp; but you can only tolerate this
behavior for a few months.  
I do not understand why some post commanders insist that
'that rinky dink' behavior remain a constant.
It only makes the troops loath the service.


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## Pecos (Apr 27, 2020)

Grampa Don said:


> Funny, I never sensed any of that.  Maybe I was lucky.  Like I said, I was a reservist and served two years active duty.  I had a lot of respect for the career guys.  It just wasn't the thing for me.
> 
> Don


I heard some nonsense from people who looked down their noses at reservists when I was a junior enlisted man, but not among the senior enlisted or the officers. As a staff officer at the O-4 and O-5 level, I worked with a fairly large number of senior reserve officers and enlisted. If they were tasked with the right short term project, had right background and the information they needed to prepare then you could get great results. If you failed to help get them prepared, then you were unlikely to get good results.

Some of the best I ever worked with included a Bank President (Reserve O-6) from Seattle and a Civil Engineer (Reserve O-5) from New England. They always got a lot done. The Engineer went directly to a remote site and helped with the initial design of a new facility. The Bank President helped us "count our beans" and allocate reserve manpower in the Pacific.

Among the worst included an executive (Reserve O-4) from Boise Cascade who we sent to South Korea to perform a fairly routine task lasting three weeks. He whined the entire time he was over there and didn't exactly impress the Active Duty Army he was supposed to support. Another worthless one was a High School Principal (reserve O-6) who thought that it was his duty to entertain himself. I did not get a lick of work out of him.

The most amusing episode was a Reserve O-4 who showed up in Hawaii not having touched base with us or even having made arrangements for quarters, To make matters worse, he brought his wife with him and the Island hotels were totally packed. The only things available were park benches or my spare bedroom. It was either leave him on the street or take them in, so I rented my spare bedroom. The wife essentially took over my kitchen (I was unmarried) and she was a pretty good cook, so for two weeks I had unplanned guests in my condo.

I was a guest speaker at a reserve conference in San Francisco one year that had representatives from multiple units that I had been tasking for a couple of years. These units were performing a valuable service and my main objective was to thank them.

So I don't knock reservists. I do knock the poor performance of some active duty types who should be providing better guidance and tasking.


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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 27, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> BTW, in the US Navy were the lifers-20+year guys. Enlistees, for usually 4 years. and then Reservists, who were there for two weeks. Which ever group you were in detested  the other two.


The term "detest" was over the top. When I was in Boot Camp, ,on the third floor, those two week reservists were on the first floor. Were we overjoyed to have to put in 4 long years and those guys were there for couple of weeks? Can't say that we were. There was a certain amount of rivalry, and disdain for the other group. We all felt screwed in one way or another. We had that going for us.


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## Grampa Don (Apr 27, 2020)

There were drawbacks to being a reservist.  I had a total of six years obligation, 3 of monthly meetings with a two week active period each year, 2 years active duty, and one year standby reserve.  Those monthly weekends got pretty old.  And, the only training classes I got were three short C schools on particular equipment.

I had a good job.  The military was not something I really wanted.  It was just something I had to do, like a lot of guys in those days.

Don


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## Pecos (Apr 27, 2020)

Grampa Don said:


> Funny, I never sensed any of that.  Maybe I was lucky.  Like I said, I was a reservist and served two years active duty.  I had a lot of respect for the career guys.  It just wasn't the thing for me.
> 
> Don


I heard some nonsense from people who looked down their noses at reservists when I was a junior enlisted man, but not among the senior enlisted or the officers. As a staff officer at the O-4 and O-5 level, I worked with a fairly large number of senior reserve officers and enlisted. If they were tasked with the right short term project, had right background and the information they needed to prepare then you could get great results. If you failed to help get them prepared, then you were unlikely to get good results.

Some of the best I ever worked with included a Bank President (Reserve O-6) from Seattle and a Civil Engineer (Reserve O-5) from New England. They always got a lot done. The Engineer went directly to a remote site and helped with the initial design of a new facility. The Bank President helped us "count our beans" and allocate reserve manpower in the Pacific.

Among the worst included an executive (Reserve O-4) from Boise Cascade who we sent to South Korea to perform a fairly routine task lasting three weeks. He whined the entire time he was over there and didn't exactly impress the Active Duty Army he was supposed to support. Another worthless one was a High School Principal (reserve O-6) who thought that it was his duty to entertain himself. I did not get a lick of work out of him.

I was a guest speaker at a reserve conference in San Francisco one year that had representatives from multiple units that I had been tasking for a couple of years. These units were performing a valuable service and my main objective was to thank them.

So I don't knock reservists. I do knock the poor performance of some active duty types who should be providing better guidance and tasking.


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## old medic (Apr 27, 2020)

Pepper said:


> How did you do that, make the exit I mean


For me it was knocking out a 2nd Lt with a glass jaw.....
My 1st Sgt thanked me for doing it... and managed to secure me walking papers...


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## drifter (May 6, 2020)

I enlisted, did my time and got out. I was lucky and enjoyed my time in the military. I served with some good people
and saw parts of the world I would not have otherwise seen. I'm glad for the experience but would not want to
do it again.


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## oldmontana (May 6, 2020)

*Lifers vs. draftees.*

There should be a third ... ENLISTEES.  I did not get drafted...I was not a liker.  I joined and served three years..Army...at a time when we had a daft.


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