# Depression



## grahamg

Just thought I'd start a thread on the subject of depression (hope this doesn't depress anyone of course).

I have some direct knowledge of the topic but wanted to hand over to forum members first, before I say too much myself.

If its possible to make it a dispassionate, even light hearted thread so much the better .


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## Aunt Bea

Me and my shadow!

Many, many years ago a doctor told me that I "suffered" from depression.  I've never really been sure, I know I'm definitely an introvert and need time alone to recharge my batteries.  I believe that what I have must be a mild form of depression because I have been able to make friends with it.  I learned early on to power through my bouts of depression by focusing on the needs of others.  Since I've retired I've sort of given into it and become more reclusive.  I still need to have a talk with myself from time to time. _hitch up your draws!_, _soldier on!_, _put one foot in front of the other__!_, etc...  It works for me.


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## grahamg

*On another forum I started same thread*

On another forum I started the same thread and received some quite heart rending responses - so not much levity, as maybe was to be expected.

One guy, who said like yourself that he'd only suffered a mild form of depression did come back with a joke: "I seem to think of someone and then next thing they telephone me - but my friend and I have decided I'm psychotic not psychic......." (well I thought it was funny, and you can probably imagine it did lift the thread which was in danger of becoming overwhelmingly sad).

Here is a photo of my grandson - I used this on the other forum too as a way possibly of making everyone feel uplifted:


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## SeaBreeze

Adorable grandson, you must be so proud of that sweetie! :love_heart:  Cute outfit too!

I've been fortunate not to have ever suffered from depression, but like almost everyone, if not everyone, there are times when I felt down in the dumps or in a slump for various reasons.  When this happens to me, I usually can turn it around by putting things in perspective.  I think of all the people in the world who have it so much worse than I ever have, whose body or minds are negatively affected by disease, birth defects or accidents and abuse.  Also those whose children are stricken with these devastating challenges in life.  Pretty quickly, I count my blessings and find many reasons to feel happy, not sad.


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## grahamg

I get that reaction quite a lot to the young man's photo and it is the fact he seems so happy that is the most rewarding aspect of being his granddad (I wonder how many hearts he'll break too...........?).

You do sound very balanced in your approach to life and I'm sure everything you say must help avoid depression. Nonetheless it still keeps happening to so many of us, it makes you question what's going on. Genetic factors were mentioned on the other forum and it is true my mother suffered a number of bouts of depression in her lifetime. I can't try to examine everything too much myself though because when I started recovering those professionals aiding me had to ask me what I thought had made the difference, so even they didn't know. It is a great blessing to feel well after so much of the other side of things and now I'm seemingly able to cope with all manner of obstacles being thrown in my way (like half my immediate family trying to evict me from the family farm). I felt absolutely certain when I was ill that I would never be better again, regardless of how many people told me otherwise. One professional did say I shouldn't expect to get back entirely to how I was before when I had a reasonably successful career - so she hadn't too much faith in me had she. However, I can honestly say to those who have asked me recently that I am happy on the farm doing my work now, and that's a feeling I probably couldn't have said with complete conviction for the majority of my life.


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## SeaBreeze

grahamg said:


> You do sound very balanced in your approach to life and I'm sure everything you say must help avoid depression. Nonetheless it still keeps happening to so many of us, it makes you question what's going on. Genetic factors were mentioned on the other forum and it is true my mother suffered a number of bouts of depression in her lifetime. I can't try to examine everything too much myself though because when I started recovering those professionals aiding me had to ask me what I thought had made the difference, so even they didn't know. It is a great blessing to feel well after so much of the other side of things and now I'm seemingly able to cope with all manner of obstacles being thrown in my way (like half my immediate family trying to evict me from the family farm).



I know it happens to many people, probably the cause is too involved to pinpoint one thing, but I've heard also that genetic factors may come into play.  I've known folks who have been on anti-depressant drugs that constantly needed to have their doses increased or have their prescriptions changed.   Then there's others who've had some good result with natural remedies like St. John's Wort or or other supplements/vitamins/light-boxes, but their depression wasn't so severe.  Glad you're doing better now and able to cope with many of the things that life throws your way.


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## Phoenix

One of the things that triggers depression for me is sugar.  I eat something sugary, the blood sugar spikes and then it drops.  Then comes the depression.  Lack of sleep does it too.  I've had a hard time sleeping since parimenopause.  I exercise, it helps ward it off.  When it hits I try not to allow myself to wallow in it.  I refuse to take drugs for it.  They have destroyed two of my cousins lives.  Instead of getting out of bad marriages, they took anti-depressants and stayed in the marriages. They are now in one heck of a bad state.  I take myself by the seat of the pants and give myself a good kick.  Plus, I write my novels and work out whatever is bothering me.  We may not be able to control all the events in our lives, but I can control the lives of my characters.


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## grahamg

Phoenix said:


> I take myself by the seat of the pants and give myself a good kick.  Plus, I write my novels and work out whatever is bothering me.  We may not be able to control all the events in our lives, but I can control the lives of my characters.



I liked your comments - they made me laugh and I guess what you're describing really does help you too.

Thanks for the response to the thread.


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## fureverywhere

Something that has helped me from the darkside...

A There are folks who have survived suicide attempts who talk about the "Moment of Clarity". Just before your brain shuts down you have this moment of realization...&%$#, whatever has put me here isn't really the end of the world wait...

B Suicide is in a nutshell a selfish act. I'm not talking about a terminal illness or if you have no survivors. But really look at the Hemingway family. Grandpa couldn't deal with getting old so he offed himself. Grand daughter did it with pills. No you do not want a legacy like that %$#&.


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## grahamg

fureverywhere said:


> Something that has helped me from the dark side...
> 
> B Suicide is in a nutshell a selfish act.



It is good to hear success stories like yours and I agree with you on suicide being selfish (though some may not get the "moment of clarity" you describe to prevent their actions unfortunately).


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## Butterfly

My doc says most real depression is caused by an imbalance in neurotransmitters in the brain and is chemical in origin.  Talking about real clinical depression, not situational depression caused by something bad happening in your life.


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## Phoenix

grahamg said:


> I liked your comments - they made me laugh and I guess what you're describing really does help you too.
> 
> Thanks for the response to the thread.



My dad always dealt with things by joking.  It beats the heck out of swimming in the cesspool.  I've had some really crappy things happen to me over the period of my life.  And sometimes they really do get me down.  Doctors who talk about the chemical imbalances often prescribe drugs for the issue which makes things worse.  I will not go there.  What we all do is up to us, but we should not think that shooting ourselves in the foot is the answer, and that's what drug therapy is, a shot in the foot which destroys the beauty inside and our potential to learn how to rise above whatever the issue is.


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## grahamg

Bruce Springsteen talking about his own depression amongst other things 

~https://youtu.be/1_UoZ8wP6z


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## tnthomas

Butterfly said:


> My doc says most real depression is caused by an imbalance in neurotransmitters in the brain and is chemical in origin.  Talking about real clinical depression, not situational depression caused by something bad happening in your life.



See post #2 in this thread.

There's more I'd like to add to the thread, just haven't gotten a_round_tuit.


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## fureverywhere

My dad always dealt with things by joking.  It beats the heck out of swimming in the cesspool. 

Your Dad is correct. Finding humor in the darkest crap is a lifesaver. Hubby has Parkinson's and more feeble by the year. I can say with a straight face "Okay son, it's your turn to walk Callie. Hold the leash and your feet will never touch the ground". My daughter is exceptional but I can still joke I'm feeling retarded as she shows me how the TV remote works.

Oh and grandchildren...holding my boy and watching him chortle at Grandma's shiny bracelets. Yep I can hang on several more years.


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## grahamg

Following the Channel 4 programme on Bruce Springsteen talking about his depression here is a link to a BBC documentary shown last night on the subject of loneliness and mostly concentrating on anxiety and depression:

~http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06vkhr5/the-age-of-loneliness


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## grahamg

Link not working?

..............I'll try again

~http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06vkhr5/the-age-of-loneliness

or enter the following into a Google search and you'll be taken to the correct page via search result (hopefully):

~http://bbc.in/1ZdsfMR


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## grahamg

Just discovered Meatloaf, the rock singer says he's suffered from depression and had nervous breakdowns:

~In  a separate video answering questions for Facebook fans, Meat Loaf  talked about the meaning of being a celebrity and said that he’s not  about that or being a “rock star.”
He says “I don’t really relate to  myself in any form or fashion as any kind of star. And that’s what I had  a nervous breakdown about, because they kept putting out ‘new star’ and  I kept saying to the Epic people, do not put the word ‘star’ in an  advertisement, put ‘artist,’ put ‘performer,’ put anything but ‘star,’  because that’s not what I’m about.”
Elaborating on the point, Meat Loaf commented “I don’t go to where paparazzi is, because I really  don’t care about being a celebrity or a rock star, not my thing. I like  doing my shows, I like doing acting, but you can have the celebrity. I  like the craft, I like the skill, I like making it better and I like how  we put it together.”


*Read More: *Meat Loaf Says Being Labeled a Star Gave Him a Nervous Breakdown | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/meat-loaf-new-album-update/?trackback=tsmclip


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## peramangkelder

Many famous or infamous people suffered or are suffering with  Depression. 
Indeed it was Sir Winston Churchill who coined the phrase  'the black dog of Depression".
I suffer with Depression from time to time and it can be very debilitating for me.


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## Vedaarya

Sometimes depression is a side effect of Hashimoto illness (thyroid problem). My cousin, a very successful person, nearly starved herself to death (she lost interest in everything) before her problem was diagnosed. Now she is takes proper meds for glands and is back to her old style of life.


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## Phoenix

grahamg said:


> Just discovered Meatloaf, the rock singer says he's suffered from depression and had nervous breakdowns:
> 
> ~In  a separate video answering questions for Facebook fans, Meat Loaf  talked about the meaning of being a celebrity and said that he’s not  about that or being a “rock star.”
> He says “I don’t really relate to  myself in any form or fashion as any kind of star. And that’s what I had  a nervous breakdown about, because they kept putting out ‘new star’ and  I kept saying to the Epic people, do not put the word ‘star’ in an  advertisement, put ‘artist,’ put ‘performer,’ put anything but ‘star,’  because that’s not what I’m about.”
> Elaborating on the point, Meat Loaf commented “I don’t go to where paparazzi is, because I really  don’t care about being a celebrity or a rock star, not my thing. I like  doing my shows, I like doing acting, but you can have the celebrity. I  like the craft, I like the skill, I like making it better and I like how  we put it together.”
> 
> 
> *Read More: *Meat Loaf Says Being Labeled a Star Gave Him a Nervous Breakdown | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/meat-loaf-new-album-update/?trackback=tsmclip



This makes me respect him a lot.  He's the true artist.  I love that.  He's not a high maintenance person who is stuck on himself.  I find that refreshing.


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## grahamg

Phoenix said:


> This makes me respect him a lot.  He's the true artist.  I love that.  He's not a high maintenance person who is stuck on himself.  I find that refreshing.



I have always thought the same way about Meatloaf, and his breakdown story has the ring of truth about it lasting two years when he wasn't able to function.


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## Phoenix

grahamg said:


> I have always thought the same way about Meatloaf, and his breakdown story has the ring of truth about it lasting two years when he wasn't able to function.



I think the entertainment industry is hard on the truly creative.  It's a uses people up.  The fact that he made it back is amazing.


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## fureverywhere

For just us average folk...a nervous breakdown is we can't see it getting any better. We laugh or cry but we are stuck. With a prayer you are eligible for a medication that will turn the whole show off...night, night.


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## Phoenix

Phoenix said:


> I think the entertainment industry is hard on the truly creative.  It's a uses people up.  The fact that he made it back is amazing.



My two cousins did that and they lost who and what they are.  They are more stuck than then ever were, and they are still depressed, and too drug dependent to do anything else.  Years later they are in horrible shape. That kind of medication is a killer of the spirit.


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## grahamg

I thought forum members might like to hear and see Nina Simone performing "For all we know"

I find it so moving I am moved to tears but in a good way where you feel lucky to be alive at the end of it (I hope you know what I mean?).

Anyway, here is the link, and although the sound is dodgy on this live performance the way she delivers the song and even those musicians supporting her all makes it worth your attention I think:

~https://youtu.be/6proYaAfwt

Not sure if these links are working

~https://youtu.be/6proYaAfwt


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## Bobw235

I can speak about depression from the standpoint of having lived with someone who suffers from it. My wife has had three serious bouts of depression over the years and after the last one her doctor told her she'd likely be on an anti-depressant for the rest of her life.

The first bout with this insidious disorder came after my wife was laid off from a job she'd held for 18 years. Suddenly here she was at home all day, alone, having lost the only job she'd known since graduating college, unfamiliar with looking for work, no computer skills at the time and it really threw her for a loop as time dragged on. 

At first the signs were subtle. I'd come home from work and she'd still be in her night gown. Talking about her job search was difficult and she didn't want to engage in conversation. She had few friends to turn to and none near us. There were bouts of crying, sleeplessness, lack of energy, etc. I became increasingly worried about her emotional state and put in a call to our employee assistance plan (EAP) advisers, described her symptoms and expressed my fears about her situation. They set up an appointment with a counselor right away. My wife later told me that when the counselor asked her what was going on, she burst into uncontrolled crying she was in so much pain. It was awful.

Fortunately, with the introduction of a mild anti-depressant (she's tried a few and one finally worked), her symptoms were gradually pushed into the background for a few years. There have been two others triggered by situational circumstances, the last one was several years ago. She and I now both know the symptoms. My wife has tried to wean herself from the anti-depressant medication, but it's been tough because over time she can feel herself slipping back. Most recently she cut back on the low dose she's on, but has felt the need to go back to her daily schedule. 

Speaking as her spouse, it was tough for me going through this because it was unfamiliar territory. Before realizing what we were dealing with there was the feeling like she was just "down in the dumps." "You're just going through a tough patch, it'll get better" friends would say. Then there was the feeling of irritation that came with finding her sitting on the couch all day, the house a mess, breakfast dishes still in the sink after I'd put in a stressful day. Trying to get her to talk resulted in sullen disengagement. I didn't know how to help the woman I loved. I could see how much distress she was in. I was worried about things she was saying at the time and will forever be grateful that we had somewhere to turn for help.


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## grahamg

Bobw235 said:


> I can speak about depression from the standpoint of having lived with someone who suffers from it. My wife has had three serious bouts of depression over the years and after the last one her doctor told her she'd likely be on an anti-depressant for the rest of her life.
> 
> The first bout with this insidious disorder came after my wife was laid off from a job she'd held for 18 years. Suddenly here she was at home all day, alone, having lost the only job she'd known since graduating college, unfamiliar with looking for work, no computer skills at the time and it really threw her for a loop as time dragged on.
> 
> At first the signs were subtle. I'd come home from work and she'd still be in her night gown.
> 
> Break
> 
> Speaking as her spouse, it was tough for me going through this because it was unfamiliar territory. Before realizing what we were dealing with there was the feeling like she was just "down in the dumps." "You're just going through a tough patch, it'll get better" friends would say. Then there was the feeling of irritation that came with finding her sitting on the couch all day, the house a mess, breakfast dishes still in the sink after I'd put in a stressful day. Trying to get her to talk resulted in sullen disengagement. I didn't know how to help the woman I loved. I could see how much distress she was in. I was worried about things she was saying at the time and will forever be grateful that we had somewhere to turn for help.



That's a very moving account and you first line on signs is telling, sometimes the early signs are subtle but we can't live thinking everyone around us is on the verge of a breakdown. My father learned to cope with my mother's depressive episodes, some of them serious enough to require her going into hospital. The first one for her happened in 1947, just six months after they were married, though she got better by going home to her parents and with good psychiatric help. The psychiatrist got my father to agree to them telling my mother what a selfish man she'd married, and he was willing to accept that if it helped get her better (no doubt he was a bit selfish too, but it was very big of him to do this and keep it up for the rest of their lives). My mother totally believed the psychiatrist telling her how selfish dad was and it did help move some of the negatives thoughts she must have had about herself.

Then poor old dad had to cope with seeing me very very low for so long too and once again he did all he could not to blame you for the way you were behaving (another sister has had even worse breakdowns but my father still said he was proud of her for the good things she had in her personality, like an inability to tell lies, and unbelievable memory).

To cap all this I'm going to post a link to something that might help us all laugh a little - I hope it makes us laugh anyway (no, I've changed my mind, as it feels a little insensitive to post it now, after your story concerning your wife, so I'll post it later on.


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## Grumpy Ol' Man

Bobw235 said:


> I can speak about depression from the standpoint of having lived with someone who suffers from it. My wife has had three serious bouts of depression over the years and after the last one her doctor told her she'd likely be on an anti-depressant for the rest of her life.
> 
> The first bout with this insidious disorder came after my wife was laid off from a job she'd held for 18 years. Suddenly here she was at home all day, alone, having lost the only job she'd known since graduating college, unfamiliar with looking for work, no computer skills at the time and it really threw her for a loop as time dragged on.
> 
> At first the signs were subtle. I'd come home from work and she'd still be in her night gown. Talking about her job search was difficult and she didn't want to engage in conversation. She had few friends to turn to and none near us. There were bouts of crying, sleeplessness, lack of energy, etc. I became increasingly worried about her emotional state and put in a call to our employee assistance plan (EAP) advisers, described her symptoms and expressed my fears about her situation. They set up an appointment with a counselor right away. My wife later told me that when the counselor asked her what was going on, she burst into uncontrolled crying she was in so much pain. It was awful.
> 
> Fortunately, with the introduction of a mild anti-depressant (she's tried a few and one finally worked), her symptoms were gradually pushed into the background for a few years. There have been two others triggered by situational circumstances, the last one was several years ago. She and I now both know the symptoms. My wife has tried to wean herself from the anti-depressant medication, but it's been tough because over time she can feel herself slipping back. Most recently she cut back on the low dose she's on, but has felt the need to go back to her daily schedule.
> 
> Speaking as her spouse, it was tough for me going through this because it was unfamiliar territory. Before realizing what we were dealing with there was the feeling like she was just "down in the dumps." "You're just going through a tough patch, it'll get better" friends would say. Then there was the feeling of irritation that came with finding her sitting on the couch all day, the house a mess, breakfast dishes still in the sink after I'd put in a stressful day. Trying to get her to talk resulted in sullen disengagement. I didn't know how to help the woman I loved. I could see how much distress she was in. I was worried about things she was saying at the time and will forever be grateful that we had somewhere to turn for help.



Interesting, as I have also "been blessed" with a spouse who has suffered from bouts of depression.  I knew she suffered from low self-esteem, early on.  In the Spring of 1976, we were in financial distress... I took a job on the road, leaving her home with a 4 year old and 7 months pregnant... her father went in for some minor surgery and bled out on the operating table... our second daughter was born premature less than a week after we buried her father.  She was struggling, as well anyone would.  I was at work when the company owner pulled up and said "get in".  He didn't observe many speed limit signs on the drive to our home.  My wife suddenly did not know or claim either on of the girls.  She had totally "lost it".  
After that, during the last 40 years of our marriage, there have been a number of times when she has been close to being 'pushed over the edge'.  Probably been as healthy as ever this past 5 to 10 years as I've seen her.

When she was having the most trouble, the physicians told her to "get over it!"  Two I remember explicitly, told her it was all in her head and she just needed to "grow up".  But, that has been many years ago before there was much motivation to diagnose someone as having mental issues.  Women were supposed to be kept "barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen"... and most certainly not complain.  Together we worked through some difficult times in our 50+ years together and seem to have survived.

During those times, we had a daughter diagnosed with depression.  The mental health folks medicated and that seemed to cause even more issues.  We now have a granddaughter who is severely handicapped with mental disorders and, instead of working with her, they want to simply hand her pills.  At 19 years old, she has found she can make more spending money selling the prescribed pills than taking them.  Sheesh!!!

There have been some times I have thought the "depression bug" has attacked me.  Yet, with some issues at home, I have always told myself that I must be the strong one.  Have had some long "cries" when things have gotten bad, but those have been by myself to not show I might be getting close to breaking.  The Good Lord seems to have assisted in helping me keep it together.  So, I'll probably be the first to begin early dementia and those who I've tried to be strong for will be the "caretakers".  :>)

I still believe not nearly enough has been done to "fix" the mental health issues.  Psychiatrists want to prescribe pills and send you home.  Psychologists want to have half-hour sessions week after week after week... sorta like a chiropractor... until your insurance is exhausted.  Then, I guess, you are considered "cured".  Why can't we put the money and impetus on treating mental health... depression... just as a disease?  Why can't we consider depression the same as the flu, a cancer, diabetes, etc.?  Nope.  We have the social elite who want to brag in their bridge clubs about their seeing a psychiatrist... while those same elite want to strip any and all funding from mental health care for the less fortunate.  

Rant off......


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## grahamg

Thank you for that post. As with Bob's it is very moving to hear these stories especially being told so thoughtfully.

I'll keep that amusing link back a bit longer I reckon, as in my opinion nothing should detract from your words, and hopefully, anyone reading them will benefit in some way.


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## Butterfly

For some suffering from clinical depression (not situational), the drugs are a godsend.


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## grahamg

*Okay, its time for that amusing link*

Okay, its time for the link to the amusing picture (if it doesn't work properly I suppose that will be someone telling me it isn't the time to inject some humour 

~https://www.facebook.com/FilmmakerLokeshOfficial/photos/a.321784621327945.1073741828.319861914853549/509507389222333/?type=3

Bingo, it does work!


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## grahamg

*Tapestry with grandma*

Dear All,
I think I promised you a picture of my daughter (taken twenty years ago) enjoying some domestic bliss doing her tapestry under instruction from her grandma whilst I took a well earned rest 

~https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....10154302678028147.1073741831.791523146&type=


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## Lon

I am amazed at the number of advertised Drugs that list DEPRESSION as a possible side effect. When then? You take another DRUG to alleviate the Depression?


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## BlondieBoomer

Which drugs have people taken for depression that work? Can they be taken long term?


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## fureverywhere

Seroquel and Venaflexine....It works, depression and bi-pi it works.


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## Shalimar

Fur, so glad the meds work for you.


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## Shalimar

Thought provoking posts, poignant also. After my recent crash and burn, I am reminded of how vulnerable we all can be. For those affected,  if they are fortunate, they are able to manage clinical depression, at least most of the time. Situational depression can 

flatten anyone, if the circumstances present themselves. All of us have a breaking point. For many, meds are a godsend, although they don't work 

for everyone. Certainly, they never were more than a bandaid for me, and they stole the depth of my poetry, my  intensity, and a certain amount of empathy, it was like being half alive. This illness  is not about being "tough", but resilient. Twenty percent of the  population is deemed to be extremely sensitive, more open to  acute depression brought on by negative life experiences.

Speaking to my own reality, getting back up after skiing on one's nose in the gravel, is incredibly taxing. For those who do this repeatedly throughout their lives, you have my admiration and respect. I salute your courage and perseverance. This is strength in it's pure state. Salut mes amis!


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## Spirit777

I can only speak for myself (obviously!), but I've been on Prozac for years and it keeps me stable.  Without it, I can easily fall "into the dungeon" and it gives me the ability to do other things to keep my depression at bay - exercising, yoga, etc.  

I agree with Butterfly - the drugs are a godsend for someone who suffers from clinical depression.


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## Ruthanne

Shalimar said:


> Thought provoking posts, poignant also. After my recent crash and burn, I am reminded of how vulnerable we all can be. For those affected,  if they are fortunate, they are able to manage clinical depression, at least most of the time. Situational depression can
> 
> flatten anyone, if the circumstances present themselves. All of us have a breaking point. For many, meds are a godsend, although they don't work
> 
> for everyone. Certainly, they never were more than a bandaid for me, and they stole the depth of my poetry, my  intensity, and a certain amount of empathy, it was like being half alive. This illness  is not about being "tough", but resilient. Twenty percent of the  population is deemed to be extremely sensitive, more open to  acute depression bought on by negative life experiences.
> 
> Speaking to my own reality, getting back up after skiing on one's nose in the gravel, is incredibly taxing. For those who do this repeatedly throughout their lives, you have my admiration and respect. I salute your courage and perseverance. This is strength in it's pure state. Salut mes amis!


:thumbsup1:


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## Linda W.

One problem I've run into is that none of the psychiatrists in my area will accept Medicare. At least, none I could find after an extensive search. Some don't accept any kind of medical coverage anymore. I previously had a med from my primary doctor, but it wasn't working well. Psychologists can be found who accept Medicare, yes, but they can't prescribe. A very perplexing problem, as I felt like I needed psychiatric help. I'm also ADD (not on any med for that), which makes it harder on getting the right med for depression. Anyway, I was told when I called Medicare that if a patient can't find a psychiatrist who does accept Medicare, then you can file your own claims after the visit and explain that you couldn't find one who takes that coverage. So I paid for one expensive visit and was put on Prestiq. Probably won't get very much back, but we will see. This, from what I understand, is related to the very low compensation rate given to psychiatrists by Medicare...and also by other health insurance in some cases. So patients are caught in the middle in this mess. I've been treated for depression before, but long ago...and back then I had no such problems seeing a psychiatrist. I have ChampVA for a secondary coverage.


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## BlondieBoomer

Linda, check with your insurance company. They should be able to suggest one or two providers.


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## dog lover

There seems to be a huge difference between situational depression and clinical depression. I have a friend who is clinically depressed, and after struggling most of her life, after a couple of years of adjusting depression meds she finally arrived at a happy balance. I was really depressed after hubby died. And it lasted some 2 years. I am also an introvert, but for me the two are not related. I have always enjoyed solitude more than company, that was not a result of my depression, although people drove me nuts trying to drag me out into company. Which, being an introvert, depressed me even more. Group activities, oh, the horror! I wish people would understand and respect introversion, it has nothing to do with unhappiness, it's it's own thing and introverts can be very happy people.

My situational depression went through the stages of grief and finally subsided. Now, after 5 years, I still miss him and the depression recurs occasionally, but is manageable now. Thankfully people have given up of dragging me to social functions. What a relief!

Suicide - I am all for death with dignity. Depending on how things go with me, I will likely make use of it if and when the time comes. No point to just suffering without any possibility of improvement. I think relatives forcing people to stay alive and just suffer for a few more days, weeks or months are the selfish ones.


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## dog lover

Lon said:


> I am amazed at the number of advertised Drugs that list DEPRESSION as a possible side effect. When then? You take another DRUG to alleviate the Depression?



You know, I think that is how it works and that is why I don't always trust the pharmaceutical business. It's very difficult to figure out how far one wants to go with pills, often you get a pill, then a pill to alleviate the side effects, then another to alleviate those new side effects etc. Some people take like 20 pills that way. Hopefully mine keep to treating actual original issues only. It does get confusing.


----------



## Linda W.

During my search for psychiatrists, I called Medicare and then called the psychiatrists on their list for my area. Most weren't accepting Medicare anymore and some weren't accepting new patients at all, in which case I didn't ask about Medicare acceptance. So that is when I called back and they told me about the other alternative. A cardiologist I saw thought he could find a psychiatrist for me, but all he came up with was an NP who didn't even have real training in psychiatry. What I have probably clinical depression. Guess I'll go back to my primary doctor and let him order the Prestiq. Hopefully, that will work. I have a husband who has been disabled and chronically ill for 15 years to take care of, so I have to be able to function...there is nobody else who can help.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Some alternative ways of dealing with depression, more HERE.



> *Magnesium Supplements, Omega-3 and B Vitamins Decrease Depression*
> 
> Another alternative to antidepressants could come in the form of  magnesium supplements. Research published in PLOS One revealed that  magnesium supplements led to improvements in mild-to-moderate depression  in adults, with beneficial effects occurring within two weeks of  treatment. "It works quickly and is well tolerated without the need for  close monitoring for toxicity," the researchers said.[SUP]17
> [/SUP]
> 
> Magnesium acts as a catalyst for mood-regulating neurotransmitters  like serotonin, and research published in 2015 also revealed a  significant association between very low magnesium intake and  depression, especially in younger adults.[SUP]18[/SUP]  Beyond magnesium, the animal-based omega-3 fats EPA (eicosapentaenoic  acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) are also crucial for brain health.
> 
> 
> The 2001 book, "The Omega-3 Connection," written by Harvard  psychiatrist Dr. Andrew Stoll, was among the first works to bring  attention to, and support the use of, omega-3 fats for depression, and  they've been shown to lead to improvements in major depressive disorder.[SUP]19[/SUP] Making sure you're getting enough omega-3s in your diet, either from wild Alaskan salmon, sardines, herring, mackerel and anchovies, or a high-quality animal-based omega-3 supplement, is crucial for optimal mental health.
> 
> 
> B vitamins are also important, and low levels of B vitamins are  common in patients with depression, while vitamin B supplements have  been shown to improve symptoms.[SUP]20[/SUP]
> Further, in a study of 9,700 vegetarian (including a small number of  vegan) men, vegetarians were nearly twice as likely to suffer from  depression as meat eaters, even after adjusting for variables like job  status, family history and number of children.[SUP]21[/SUP] Vegetarians tend to have lower intakes of omega-3 fats, vitamin B12 and folate, which could affect depression risk.
> 
> 
> In the case of folate, it helps your body produce mood-regulating  neurotransmitters, including serotonin and dopamine. One 2012 study  found people who consumed the most folate had a lower risk of depression  than those who ate the least.[SUP]22[/SUP]  Addressing nutrient deficiencies, as well as optimizing your diet, are  keys to mental health and should be first-line strategies to treating  depression.
> 
> *Light Therapy for Depression*
> 
> Another option that shows promise is light therapy. Full-spectrum  light therapy is often recommended over antidepressants for the  treatment of seasonal affective disorder (SAD), but it may be preferable  even for major depression. Light therapy alone and placebo were both  more effective than Prozac for the treatment of moderate to severe  depression in an eight-week long study.[SUP]27
> 
> [/SUP]
> 
> Further, in a study of patients with bipolar disorder, who have  recurrent major depression, bright white light therapy was also  effective in boosting mood, with 68 percent achieving a normal mood  after four to six weeks of treatment compared to 22 percent of those who  received a placebo treatment.[SUP]28
> 
> [/SUP]
> 
> Along these lines, exposure to sunlight is also important, not only because it will help optimize your vitamin D levels (another factor linked to depression[SUP]29[/SUP])  but also because via other mechanisms, like regulating your circadian  rhythm and production of serotonin, which is released in response to  sunlight exposure.
> 
> *Exercise — Even One Hour a Week — Is Crucial*
> 
> Even a minimal amount of exercise may be enough to combat depression  in some people — as minimal as one hour a week, according to an 11-year  study in which people who engaged in regular leisure-time exercise for  one hour a week were less likely to become depressed.
> 
> 
> On the flipside, those who didn't exercise were 44 percent more  likely to become depressed compared to those who did so for at least one  to two hours a week.[SUP]30[/SUP]  "The majority of this protective effect occurred at low levels of  exercise and was observed regardless of intensity," the researchers  said, adding that, "assuming the relationship is causal, 12 percent of  future cases of depression could have been prevented if all participants  had engaged in at least one hour of physical activity each week."[SUP]31[/SUP]


----------



## tnthomas

Good information SB.  

Damage to my central nervous system from medical treatment regimen had caused a marked downturn in my normally positive outlook.

I exercise an hour every day, in addition to my normal daily activities.  Magnesium is reported to help, but I began talking magnesium supplements to address muscular pain/stiffness.  

B supplements are of value, in so many ways.

[my laptop battery is dying]

It's all about the Serotonin and Dopamine levels.


----------



## Ina

This is a subject I’ve learned quite a bit about in the last 3-4 years.  I’ve been really sad a few times in my life, especially when my oldest son was murdered back in 1992.  But as I had his two small children to take care of, I couldn’t do other than try and get them to see that the world would continue.

Then in 2012, my husband, Michael, became ill and I was consumed with his problems. In February of 2013, my youngest son died from a sudden illness, and that following December, Michael died from his illness.  That brought me to my knees, and I entered a very deep depression.  I thought I’d never make it out.

Around this time last year, I became friends with someone that was dealing with depression as well, and I thought I could help.  Not so, I was way in over my head.  I ended up feeling as if I was making the whole thing worse.  I then felt I was only contributing that person’s demise.  I existed that relationship poorly. Although now I understand I went about that the wrong way, things got better for that person.

But, it also woke me up, and I went to my doctor and told him just what had happened.  He gave me a prescription for a couple months to bring me out of my suicidal plung.  It did help, but I now was so distrustful of mental health providers that I refused to seek professional help.  

After a few months my doctor and I became real friends, and early last spring he started visiting me at my home. Because I have sun poisoning and can’t get out in the summer sun, he got me interested in a Tower Garden set up for my kitchen, and with his training I now have a fine year round garden.  It took awhile before I caught on to his version of counseling, but it worked, and recently I notice my desire to smile and laugh were waking up.  So I might not be totally out of my depression, but the world is looking good again.

Recently I dug up my courage, and I did my best to apologize and explain to the person I felt I had wronged. I can only hope and pray to be forgiven in the future.


----------



## Kaya

Ina said:


> This is a subject I’ve learned quite a bit about in the last 3-4 years.  I’ve been really sad a few times in my life, especially when my oldest son was murdered back in 1992.  But as I had his two small children to take care of, I couldn’t do other than try and get them to see that the world would continue.
> 
> Then in 2012, my husband, Michael, became ill and I was consumed with his problems. In February of 2013, my youngest son died from a sudden illness, and that following December, Michael died from his illness.  That brought me to my knees, and I entered a very deep depression.  I thought I’d never make it out.
> 
> Around this time last year, I became friends with someone that was dealing with depression as well, and I thought I could help.  Not so, I was way in over my head.  I ended up feeling as if I was making the whole thing worse.  I then felt I was only contributing that person’s demise.  I existed that relationship poorly. Although now I understand I went about that the wrong way, things got better for that person.
> 
> But, it also woke me up, and I went to my doctor and told him just what had happened.  He gave me a prescription for a couple months to bring me out of my suicidal plung.  It did help, but I now was so distrustful of mental health providers that I refused to seek professional help.
> 
> After a few months my doctor and I became real friends, and early last spring he started visiting me at my home. Because I have sun poisoning and can’t get out in the summer sun, he got me interested in a Tower Garden set up for my kitchen, and with his training I now have a fine year round garden.  It took awhile before I caught on to his version of counseling, but it worked, and recently I notice my desire to smile and laugh were waking up.  So I might not be totally out of my depression, but the world is looking good again.
> 
> Recently I dug up my courage, and I did my best to apologize and explain to the person I felt I had wronged. I can only hope and pray to be forgiven in the future.


So what was the magic pill (anti depressant) that worked for you? I am debating on whether to go see a shrink or not. This being in a funk is getting pretty sucky for me.


----------



## Kaya

I have not read the whole thread, but if those on anti depressants can give suggestions of what worked, what didn't, which made you feel like a damn zombie, which didn't..I would appreciate it.


----------



## Shalimar

Kaya said:


> I have not read the whole thread, but if those on anti depressants can give suggestions of what worked, what didn't, which made you feel like a damn zombie, which didn't..I would appreciate it.


During a time when life was hell, I took Paxil. Maxed out at 40 m. I didn’t feel zombified, it made things bearable. Sex drive seemed to be affected to some degree. I didn’t gain weight. Other drugs such as Welbutrin, Prozac, made me feel worse.


----------



## Ina

Kaya, for me it was Zannex (spelling?).  My doctor at the time, put me kust over 12 hours after my first son was killed.  My husband was smart to get that my wide-eye stare was dangerous, so I think it kept depression at bay.


----------



## Kaya

xanax. Yes, I do like that and it works, but my doc won't let me have it any more because I had to choose....pain killer or xanax. She won't do both. Even though it worked. Noooooo. They want me on a different drug. A scarier one. Never mind that xanax is very addicting but I only took HALF of one ONE time a day. That matters not. Nope. I might become ADDICTED. So, since I will kill myself if I suffer more pain, I chose the pain killer. Which is ONE a day. ONE. For 8 years now. Because I might get ADDICTED. Now all I have to do is worry about not killing myself cuz I deal with the pain all day except when I take my ONE pain killer at night, is dealing with depression, for which I now take nothing.

Doctors. Buncha idiots.


----------



## Kaya

Shalimar said:


> During a time when life was hell, I took Paxil. Maxed out at 40 m. I didn’t feel zombified, it made things bearable. Sex drive seemed to be affected to some degree. I didn’t gain weight. Other drugs such as Welbutrin, Prozac, made me feel worse.



Paxil. Ok. I will consider it. Doc/shrink might want me on something I don't wanna take and I KNOW it won't be welbutrin or prozac. I google everything before I put it in my face or on my body. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Shalimar

Kaya said:


> Paxil. Ok. I will consider it. Doc/shrink might want me on something I don't wanna take and I KNOW it won't be welbutrin or prozac. I google everything before I put it in my face or on my body. Thanks for the info.


Pleased to be of assistance. I tend to have side effects, only thing that affected me was a touch of nausea  and constipation for the first two weeks. I also took Trazadone to sleep. Initially, I was groggy, that passed quickly. Within six weeks, the crushing 

weight of despair was off my chest. I didn’t become cured of my depression, I felt a bit flat in my emotional range, but hey, Paxil saved my life, and allowed me time to work through some very heavy stuff. Do you have medical marijuana in your state? If so, I would recommmend it.


----------



## Kaya

Shalimar said:


> Pleased to be of assistance. I tend to have side effects, only thing that affected me was a touch of nausea  and constipation for the first two weeks. I also took Trazadone to sleep. Initially, I was groggy, that passed quickly. Within six weeks, the crushing
> 
> weight of despair was off my chest. I didn’t become cured of my depression, I felt a bit flat in my emotional range, but hey, Paxil saved my life, and allowed me time to work through some very heavy stuff. Do you have medical marijuana in your state? If so, I would recommmend it.


That is a funny thing. Not ha ha funny either. Yes, it is legal here for medicinal purposes. But, in order to buy it, you have to pay some schmuck doc that specializes in pot rx money to get the pot card. THEN you have to find the outlet that sells it, which costs an arm and a leg. I can grow it myself, though, if I wanted to. Problem is, I don't want the high from smoking it or eating it. My innards are not happy with pot. My lungs will have a cow, and as I said..I don't want the high. (So much for me being a potential addict, eh?). I would prefer the topical...but...I can't get it unless I PAY a doc then PAY to get the card then PAY to buy the topical balm. For someone with not a heck of a lot of money...that's too much PAYING.


----------



## Shalimar

Kaya said:


> That is a funny thing. Not ha ha funny either. Yes, it is legal here for medicinal purposes. But, in order to buy it, you have to pay some schmuck doc that specializes in pot rx money to get the pot card. THEN you have to find the outlet that sells it, which costs an arm and a leg. I can grow it myself, though, if I wanted to. Problem is, I don't want the high from smoking it or eating it. My innards are not happy with pot. My lungs will have a cow, and as I said..I don't want the high. (So much for me being a potential addict, eh?). I would prefer the topical...but...I can't get it unless I PAY a doc then PAY to get the card then PAY to buy the topical balm. For someone with not a heck of a lot of money...that's too much PAYING.


Medical pot shouldn’t get you high.


----------



## Kaya

But it does. Why else sell it for pain relief? They sell it in buds, super duper highs, etc etc etc. There IS a way to dilute it (CBD oil), but its a PITA and I don't want to deal with trying to do it myself. So....that little baggie my neighbor gave me that she grew herself will stay in my drawer because I don't want to smoke it.


----------



## SifuPhil

Kaya said:


> But it does. Why else sell it for pain relief? They sell it in buds, super duper highs, etc etc etc. There IS a way to dilute it (CBD oil), but its a PITA and I don't want to deal with trying to do it myself. So....that little baggie my neighbor gave me that she grew herself will stay in my drawer because I don't want to smoke it.



Kaya, there have been many advances in marijuana botany over the past few years, such that they have learned to isolate the CBD (cannabadiol) and THC (tetrahydrocannabinol), two of the many canabinoids that make up marijuana.

In doing this they have created new strains that are maximized for either of them. THC-laden plants have the psychotropic effect you're concerned about, while CBD plants have no such effects. 

You're probably right not to smoke the stuff your neighbor gave you, since unless she is an experienced grower she probably grew one of the common strains that contains a high THC level. 

REAL medical marijuana is only available through a dispensary, and you'll need an MMJ (medical marijuana) card, which you can get from your physician (if you're in a state where it's legal, and your MD is on the list of approved physicians). 

As for CBD oil - it can be purchased online and you can use a small portable vaporizer to "vape" it. The oil is available in several concentrations and flavorings, none of which need to be diluted.

ETA: just read your earlier post. The money aspect I can't help you with. Growing it yourself? Sure, if you REALLY know your stuff and can grow ONLY the CBD-rich strains. 

Topical application? I believe that would help in such symptoms as nerve pain; it would also help with depression symptoms as well, since it is what is called a 5-HT1 receptor agonist, meaning it can help with depression and anxiety by playing a role in the serotonin pathways.


----------



## oldman

I have what is called seasonal depression, which begins in early November and ends after the holidays. It began just a year or so after my Mom died. My Dad, who was also my best friend had passed away years earlier when their house burned down and he was sleeping and never awoke. 

I could not take any pills that alter one's personality due to being a pilot. Being on most any type of medication, other than over the counter stuff like Tylenol or Aspirin was frowned upon by the airlines and rightfully so. Right at his moment, the housekeeper is upstairs cleaning the living and dining areas of the house with Christmas music playing, so I had to either leave the house or go to my man cave, so that I may be alone and in a quiet place. I will be glad when the Christmas decorations come down. BTW, I don't put them up. My wife and son takes care of that.


----------



## RadishRose

oldman said:


> I have what is called seasonal depression, which begins in early November and ends after the holidays. It began just a year or so after my Mom died. My Dad, who was also my best friend had passed away years earlier when their house burned down and he was sleeping and never awoke.
> 
> I could not take any pills that alter one's personality due to being a pilot. Being on most any type of medication, other than over the counter stuff like Tylenol or Aspirin was frowned upon by the airlines and rightfully so. Right at his moment, the housekeeper is upstairs cleaning the living and dining areas of the house with Christmas music playing, so I had to either leave the house or go to my man cave, so that I may be alone and in a quiet place. I will be glad when the Christmas decorations come down. BTW, I don't put them up. My wife and son takes care of that.



Oldman, the S.A.D. light SeaBreeze mentioned would help you during with darker months. It must be at least 10,000 lux. Check them out online.


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## HipGnosis

RadishRose said:


> Oldman, the S.A.D. light SeaBreeze mentioned would help you during with darker months. It must be at least 10,000 lux. Check them out online.



Vitamin D3 might help too.


----------



## Falcon

Maybe I'm just stupid  or lucky because I've  never allowed myself to become depressed.

Depression is not a nice feeling so I fight it and look for more pleasant  things.

When parents, siblings  and/or friends have died or other bad things have happened that I had no control over,

I feel bad for maybe a few days and then get on with my life.  Forget?  NO !  But not dwell on it.


----------



## RadishRose

HipGnosis said:


> Vitamin D3 might help too.



According to my doctor, it's just the sunlight. The vitamin D doesn't help depression but of course it is a much needed vitamin anyway that we might get not enough of over the darker months.


----------



## oldman

Falcon said:


> Maybe I'm just stupid  or lucky because I've  never allowed myself to become depressed.
> 
> Depression is not a nice feeling so I fight it and look for more pleasant  things.
> 
> When parents, siblings  and/or friends have died or other bad things have happened that I had no control over,
> 
> I feel bad for maybe a few days and then get on with my life.  Forget?  NO !  But not dwell on it.




You are one of the lucky ones. I really don't know how depression works or how it comes on me, but I suffer from seasonal depression at this time of the year. Normally, November through December are my worse months. When the days start getting longer, I also begin to feel better. When I flew for a living, I would never even consider taking any anti-depression medication. It seemed that when I was working, I felt much better, but when I wasn't, I didn't want to do anything and I would complain about being tired and even didn't have much of an appetite. 

This all started after my Mom died back in 2004. Since that time, I tend to just sit around and think about the holidays we used to have together. There was always plenty of laughter, food and cheer to go around for everyone. My parents would throw a big bash for the neighbors and relatives and it would last from about 2 in the afternoon until 2 in the morning. I don't know how they did it.


----------



## peramangkelder

*I live in a hot climate so I doubt it is to do with Sunlight because I have Clinical Depression which can hit me right 'out of the blue' as we say in Oz.
My Coping Skills have taken a terrific pounding over the years with my parents divorce and my health woes and my own divorce 10 years ago.
We all have this ideal we think we are supposed to live up to which few of us can ever hope to attain. Instead we should be kinder to ourselves and let ourselves go through our depression and grief and perhaps we would not feel like we have been hit by the proverbial Bus.
*


----------



## peppermint

My Doctor told me to take Vitamin D 3....I'll see if it helps...But when your are depressed, it's something going on in your life...I have that now!!!   But I'm living, I won't complain!!!


----------



## Shalimar

Falcon said:


> Maybe I'm just stupid  or lucky because I've  never allowed myself to become depressed.
> 
> Depression is not a nice feeling so I fight it and look for more pleasant  things.
> 
> When parents, siblings  and/or friends have died or other bad things have happened that I had no control over,
> 
> I feel bad for maybe a few days and then get on with my life.  Forget?  NO !  But not dwell on it.


Truly, you are fortunate. Clinical depression, however,  is not a choice. Churchill suffered from it, he called it his “black dog.”


----------



## Victor

Do you ever feel that your life is "fifty shades of blue"?


----------



## GypsyRoadLady

Mental Illness of any type is so hard to understand I wish it was talked about openly then others would seek help too. My loved son deals with depression and a few other life robbing MI issues. He is so strong and I am proud. I watched suicide attempts till he was finally diagnosed. Meds are so expensive...... 

Love to all who suffer


----------



## Shalimar

GypsyRoadLady said:


> Mental Illness of any type is so hard to understand I wish it was talked about openly then others would seek help too. My loved son deals with depression and a few other life robbing MI issues. He is so strong and I am proud. I watched suicide attempts till he was finally diagnosed. Meds are so expensive......
> 
> Love to all who suffer


Bless you


----------



## Shalimar

Victor said:


> Do you ever feel that your life is "fifty shades of blue"?



Sometimes, very much so.


----------



## Linda W.

I don't know about others, but I don't become depressed overnight. It's a cumulative process over some time. And I'll never recover from it overnight either. Before I just had my primary care doctor, but it got to the point I knew I had to try other things. I've got a psychiatrist now. It wasn't easy. For anyone on Medicare, finding any psychiatrist that accepts it Medicare like looking for a diamond by looking on the ground. They just won't go there these days. Everywhere you ask, anyone you ask, the answer is no, at least locally. But finally, after I gave up, I found one. My secondary insurance is great, but it's government also, so there you go. Now it's a process...what is my real problem and what med works? Then eventually things will change...I hope!


----------



## Shalimar

Linda W. said:


> I don't know about others, but I don't become depressed overnight. It's a cumulative process over some time. And I'll never recover from it overnight either. Before I just had my primary care doctor, but it got to the point I knew I had to try other things. I've got a psychiatrist now. It wasn't easy. For anyone on Medicare, finding any psychiatrist that accepts it Medicare like looking for a diamond by looking on the ground. They just won't go there these days. Everywhere you ask, anyone you ask, the answer is no, at least locally. But finally, after I gave up, I found one. My secondary insurance is great, but it's government also, so there you go. Now it's a process...what is my real problem and what med works? Then eventually things will change...I hope!



I applaud your courage and wish you the best. Please let us know how things progress.


----------



## john19485

Phoenix, I see you write novels, I've been asked to do a book signing, I don't like to do book signings. just don't know if I want my story to go any further, the people, I wanted to read my book, have read it.


----------



## Linda W.

I've had my antidepressant dosage doubled. It worked to reduce anxiety I was having. The actual depression, however, is still there, hopefully it'll improve in time. I think while I'm seeing her, I'd like to get a diagnosis on my ADD...they have different kinds of ADD these days and I am curious which I'd be.


----------



## Victor

Anyone suffer from depression throughout your life, continually?
And/or loneliness?


----------



## Shalimar

Victor said:


> Anyone suffer from depression throughout your life, continually?
> And/or loneliness?


Intermittent bouts of depression/anxiety, inevitable with CPTSD, but all my life, loneliness has stood at my shoulder. No matter how many people are in my life, there is always a certain distance between us, a gulf of experience. I am empathetic, I can usually put myself in their shoes, my experiences are too extreme for them to reciprocate. Consequently, I never really belong anywhere. I have adjusted, but it is not always easy.


----------



## Lon

Getting a divorce (even though amicable) three years ago, selling a home, relocating to another city and moving into a apartment to live alone, coupled with two Auto Immune Diseases under treatment  and a  severe hearing loss caused this extrovert to start feeling sorry for himself and struggling to fight my self diagnosed depression. I am OK and found that I can overcome periods of depression by celebrating little victories over daily physical challenges. Even with my recent Cochlear Implant I struggle with my hearing and it is a daily challenge that hopefully will improve as they tell me it will.


----------



## jaminhealth

For me and I went thru a divorce many yrs ago, this was situational and today I believe it was probably the best thing that could have happened in my life.  I've grown so much due to being on my own.

Now clinical depression is another thing and for the years 1991 to 2002, I suspected sluggish thyroid and spent those years trying to get thyroid support and all the doctors went by the numbers...WE ARE NOT NUMBERS, we are symptoms.  I was given A/D drugs all those years and depression never lifted.   Finally, my D.O. in 2002, called in a theraputic dose of Armour Thyroid med and depression lifted in 4 days..........that was in 2002 and never touched another A/D.  Thyroid is so often missed as todays medical world is numbers game, and the "Old School" was symptoms.

Committing to daily meditation, even if only 15 minutes DAILY, can do so much for the brain, serotonin increase.  Clearing the mind and going silent is something MOST never do.


----------



## Shalimar

jaminhealth said:


> For me and I went thru a divorce many yrs ago, this was situational and today I believe it was probably the best thing that could have happened in my life.  I've grown so much due to being on my own.
> 
> Now clinical depression is another thing and for the years 1991 to 2002, I suspected sluggish thyroid and spent those years trying to get thyroid support and all the doctors went by the numbers...WE ARE NOT NUMBERS, we are symptoms.  I was given A/D drugs all those years and depression never lifted.   Finally, my D.O. in 2002, called in a theraputic dose of Armour Thyroid med and depression lifted in 4 days..........that was in 2002 and never touched another A/D.  Thyroid is so often missed as todays medical world is numbers game, and the "Old School" was symptoms.
> 
> Committing to daily meditation, even if only 15 minutes DAILY, can do so much for the brain, serotonin increase.  Clearing the mind and going silent is something MOST never do.


I have been practicing meditation twice daily since my twenties.


----------



## jaminhealth

I have a friend who goes in and out of depression and she's very holistic in nature but says she can't "find time" to meditate...she's retired and has as much time as I do...but she's a tad OCD and so that is.   Everyone can find 15 minutes in their days,  no matter how busy.  Turn off the TV.


----------



## Victor

What is CPTSD?

I hate D---------especially when there is no good reason for it.

I know what you mean "my experiences are too extreme for them to reciprocate" No one can understand, not with the best intention.


----------



## Shalimar

Victor said:


> What is CPTSD?
> 
> I hate D---------especially when there is no good reason for it.
> 
> I know what you mean "my experiences are too extreme for them to reciprocate" No one can understand, not with the best intention.


CPTSD is Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.


----------



## Linda W.

My DH has PTSD and depression for a long time. My depression may be linked with ADD as just an occasional thing. My doctor might put me back on ADD meds soon, since my depression has improved quite a bit. Sometimes a person who doesn't have the same problems can't really understand yours much. I've noticed many people are that way about ADD, and many don't think it even is real. But anyone who has fought it in real life knows it is very real.


----------



## jaminhealth

Linda W. said:


> My DH has PTSD and depression for a long time. My depression may be linked with ADD as just an occasional thing. My doctor might put me back on ADD meds soon, since my depression has improved quite a bit. Sometimes a person who doesn't have the same problems can't really understand yours much. I've noticed many people are that way about ADD, and many don't think it even is real. But anyone who has fought it in real life knows it is very real.



Thyroid is so missed by the medical world and it's important for some 66 symptoms.  I went 10 yrs with a depression and my gut told it was a sluggish thyroid and doctors would not help me due to my GOOD NUMBERS.   Just thinkin and sayin.

https://www.nahypothyroidism.org/is-it-add-or-your-thyroid/


----------



## Keesha

Depression! I’m familiar with it as I’ve suffered with it off and on my entire life. 
I’ve got various mental disorders and depression is just one of them. Most people who suffer with depression also suffer from other associated disorders. 


While I’m not familiar with CPTSD, I am familiar with regular PSTD which is already complex enough. Here’s a good article that covers the complexity of it. 
https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-ptsd-symptoms-2797638


The things that help me the most are keeping active. Walking daily increases my serotonin and dopamine levels which is why I do it everyday; rain or shine. Being out in the sunlight  does help a lot and during the winter months especially I increase my daily amounts of vitamin D. 


It really helps and so does the amino acid GABA which stands for Gamma aminobutyric acid. It is something the body naturally produces and is the primary neurotransmitter that acts to calm the central nervous system. It has been shown to be an effective natural treatment for depression, anxiety, insomnia and addiction. 


There are many types of natural supplements to treat depression but even natural supplements can interact with medications making it important to consult your GP before trying any.
For instance, St. John’s wort will interact negatively with most conventional medication. 
https://www.healthline.com/health/depression/herbs-supplements#st-johns-wort


Practices for calming the mind and body have been proven to be beneficial including yoga, mediation, tai chi, mindfulness, rhythmic movement are to name a few. Walking and yoga are practices I do everyday and again, it helps. 


Support from family and friends shouldn’t be overlooked. It’s important to surround yourself with people who love and accept you, flaws and all. I’m very fortunate to have an extremely supportive husband who sometimes needs to remind me that I have mental disorders and thankfully he is gracious enough to say it in a way that’s not insulting. Sometimes I forget how lucky I am. 


My best  girlfriend lives down the road from me and she helps me overcome my social anxiety by suggesting doing different things that require being social. Things like painting classes, skating, singing at bistros , sailing and horseback riding are some of the things. It’s great because it challenges me. Most times I do well but I still occasionally panic and have to leave. I’m just grateful that the people that matter in my life love and accept me as I am. 


Diet plays an important role in the treatment of the mind as well as the body. After all our brain is an organ that needs proper nutrition. Cutting out sugar, wheat, processed foods etc., makes a huge impact on blood sugar levels which impacts my moods. For myself, following a paleo diet works best but everyone’s lifestyles and metabolisms are different so each person needs to follow what works best for them individually. 


Treating depression and other mental disorders holistically  is the only treatment I would ever consider. Gone are the days I will ever contemplate the idea of being treated by a psychiatrist. Being treated by these practitioners have done far more damage to my mind and body than anything which is why I’d always consider consulting with a psychologist if I felt I needed additional support. 
From my experience, psychologists  offer help & support without the use of dangerous drugs which I respect and appreciate. 


Dealing with clinical depression can be challenging and difficult and I hope everyone finds the help and support that they need and deserve.


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## jaminhealth

*Keesha,* sounds like you are doing all the good stuff.  As I said I had clinical depression for 10 yrs and it was thyroid.  jam


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## Keesha

Victor said:


> Anyone suffer from depression throughout your life, continually?
> And/or loneliness?


Absolutely and it’s difficult.



Shalimar said:


> Intermittent bouts of depression/anxiety, inevitable with CPTSD, but all my life, loneliness has stood at my shoulder. No matter how many people are in my life, there is always a certain distance between us, a gulf of experience. I am empathetic, I can usually put myself in their shoes, my experiences are too extreme for them to reciprocate. Consequently, I never really belong anywhere. I have adjusted, but it is not always easy.


I can relate. 



jaminhealth said:


> For me and I went thru a divorce many yrs ago, this was situational and today I believe it was probably the best thing that could have happened in my life.  I've grown so much due to being on my own.
> 
> Now clinical depression is another thing and for the years 1991 to 2002, I suspected sluggish thyroid and spent those years trying to get thyroid support and all the doctors went by the numbers...WE ARE NOT NUMBERS, we are symptoms.  I was given A/D drugs all those years and depression never lifted.   Finally, my D.O. in 2002, called in a theraputic dose of Armour Thyroid med and depression lifted in 4 days..........that was in 2002 and never touched another A/D.  Thyroid is so often missed as todays medical world is numbers game, and the "Old School" was symptoms.
> 
> Committing to daily meditation, even if only 15 minutes DAILY, can do so much for the brain, serotonin increase.  Clearing the mind and going silent is something MOST never do.





jaminhealth said:


> *Keesha,* sounds like you are doing all the good stuff.  As I said I had clinical depression for 10 yrs and it was thyroid.  jam


A misdiagnosis due to conventional tests done to check for thyroid dysfunction is more common than you’d think. It happens often. You were wise to follow your gut instinct and go elsewhere for other opinions. 

When my thyroid came back as boarder line, my go wanted to put me on thyroid meds and I refused. I looked up the supplements I needed and changed my diet accordingly. The next time it was tested, it came back normal. 




Linda W. said:


> My DH has PTSD and depression for a long time. My depression may be linked with ADD as just an occasional thing. My doctor might put me back on ADD meds soon, since my depression has improved quite a bit. Sometimes a person who doesn't have the same problems can't really understand yours much. I've noticed many people are that way about ADD, and many don't think it even is real. But anyone who has fought it in real life knows it is very real.


ADD is very real. My father has it and I have a touch of it. I tend to recycle thoughts in my mind over and over again, with the idea that if I think about them enough, that somethings bound to change and it can be a struggle at times, however it’s not bad enough to be put on medication. I’ve known many people who struggle with this one though. It’s common. 



jaminhealth said:


> Thyroid is so missed by the medical world and it's important for some 66 symptoms.  I went 10 yrs with a depression and my gut told it was a sluggish thyroid and doctors would not help me due to my GOOD NUMBERS.   Just thinkin and sayin.
> 
> https://www.nahypothyroidism.org/is-it-add-or-your-thyroid/



Great link Jaminhealth. It’s worth looking into for anyone suffering through depression. I also went through a depression that lasted over 10 years. It was due to a very traumatic experience and I purposefully gained a massive amount of weight because of it thinking it would help and it didn’t. Unfortunately it caused all kinds of other health problems. 
Over the years I lost all the weight and had to really readjust the way I viewed my life. It was painfully difficult but I managed. 

Most people don’t understand clinical depression. Many think it’s just plain sadness that can be dealt with having a better attitude etc., Only those who have experienced this type of crippling mental disorder can grasp any of this. It can, at times, be very lonely indeed.


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## jaminhealth

Keesha said:


> Absolutely and it’s difficult.
> 
> 
> I can relate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A misdiagnosis due to conventional tests done to check for thyroid dysfunction is more common than you’d think. It happens often. You were wise to follow your gut instinct and go elsewhere for other opinions.
> 
> When my thyroid came back as boarder line, my go wanted to put me on thyroid meds and I refused. I looked up the supplements I needed and changed my diet accordingly. The next time it was tested, it came back normal.
> 
> 
> 
> ADD is very real. My father has it and I have a touch of it. I tend to recycle thoughts in my mind over and over again, with the idea that if I think about them enough, that somethings bound to change and it can be a struggle at times, however it’s not bad enough to be put on medication. I’ve known many people who struggle with this one though. It’s common.
> 
> 
> 
> Great link Jaminhealth. It’s worth looking into for anyone suffering through depression. I also went through a depression that lasted over 10 years. It was due to a very traumatic experience and I purposefully gained a massive amount of weight because of it thinking it would help and it didn’t. Unfortunately it caused all kinds of other health problems.
> Over the years I lost all the weight and had to really readjust the way I viewed my life. It was painfully difficult but I managed.
> 
> Most people don’t understand clinical depression. Many think it’s just plain sadness that can be dealt with having a better attitude etc., Only those who have experienced this type of crippling mental disorder can grasp any of this. It can, at times, be very lonely indeed.



My* clinical* depression came on after menopause, I was in my early 50's...a traumatic divorce in my early 30's didn't do the depression I had from the menopause depression.  *Situational *depression comes and goes I've found.  The next day(s) can always be better they were for me anyway..  I've done a lot of Mind Work over the years and learned acceptance for situations I can't change.  Talk later.   jam


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## Keesha

jaminhealth said:


> My* clinical* depression came on after menopause, I was in my early 50's...a traumatic divorce in my early 30's didn't do the depression I had from the menopause depression.  *Situational *depression comes and goes I've found.  The next day(s) can always be better they were for me anyway..  I've done a lot of Mind Work over the years and learned acceptance for situations I can't change.  Talk later.   jam




Hormonal depression is a type of depression that comes unexpectedly . Not that any depression really makes sense but those hormone imbalance stages women go through are wickedly surprising. 


Peri menopause was really difficult for me but once post menopause kicked it I was ready to divorce my husband and move way up north by myself. I just about lost it. The poor guy. Somehow at that point in my life I became super liberated. At that point in my life my husband couldn’t do anything right by me. 


It was a change in me that I couldn’t explain and it took going through it to realize that it was indeed hormonal. The impact it had on our relationship was huge.


I’m so very glad I came across this thread because it made me realize some important things. I’ve spent years tailoring my lifestyle to avoid high levels of stress.
I ‘ve moved to the country, practice mindfulness, meditate, walk  in nature, avoid the news, violent movies, aggressive people etc., which has worked well for me over the years.


Oddly enough I haven’t held those same values while I’m online. 
Jumping into aggressive debates isn’t something I’d normally participate in at all and yet I’ve done exactly that. 
I learned something very significant over the last few days. 


I can relate Jam.


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## grahamg

This thread was one of the first ones I started when I first joined Seniors Forum.

I hope it is of interest to someone today!


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