# renting is more complicated these days



## JaniceM (Sep 3, 2022)

I'm not specifically referring to Senior housing, just renting an apartment in general.  
In the past, my experiences were quite simple.  These days, not only are there extra (and large) costs involved, but all kinds of requirements.

So I was wondering what the reason is-  is it because there are many more people needing apartments these days that landlords can be as picky and difficult as they want, or are there more "problem" tenants these days so landlords need to be careful in who they rent to???


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## Pepper (Sep 3, 2022)

Both.


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## JustBonee (Sep 3, 2022)

Things seem to be changing quickly in the rental market ... I know they are here!   
Too many people looking,    and not enough available homes or apartments for them, so owners are getting very choosy ...


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## Alligatorob (Sep 3, 2022)

I think it's mostly:


JaniceM said:


> because there are many more people needing apartments these days that landlords can be as picky and difficult as they want


Its just supply and demand, in a few years when there's a glut of apartments it will be a lot easier.


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## hollydolly (Sep 3, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I think it's mostly:
> 
> Its just supply and demand, in a few years when there's a glut of apartments it will be a lot easier.


what reason could there be which would create a 'glut of apartments' in a few years time ?

Over population, lack of of affordable homes being built.. everywhere.. more people homeless than ever before... never going to happen is it ?


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## Skyking (Sep 3, 2022)

IMHO, there are all kinds of requirements because people and politicians have abused the system, and landlords are just trying to protect themselves. Two examples.... remember when the government prevented evictions for nonpayment of rent a year back, they cited (COVID) but they didn't prevent mortgage foreclosures due to non-payment of the mortgage by the landlord?   Also, landlord's repair costs have risen out of sight. The real inflation rate is far greater than the 9% the government has been spewing and the landlords are stuck with the bill. So many more reasons for your observation too.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 3, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> what reason could there be which would create a 'glut of apartments' in a few years time ?


Unless something changes in the whole real estate market it will happen, just not sure how soon.  In the US anyway the real estate market has been cyclic since our earliest records.  See "The Real Estate Cycle and What it Means for a Post-Pandemic Market" https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/the-real-estate-cycle-and-what-it-means-1309838/ for example.

Right now rents are up and so there is a strong incentive to build more rental units, that will lead to a glut, always has before, don't see that changing.  Of course the glut will be followed by another shortage and so on, so long as our civilization lasts anyway.


hollydolly said:


> Over population, lack of of affordable homes being built..


You make a good point on the over population problem, it makes land in particular more expensive.  I think the result will be a gradual increase in housing costs with each peak and valley a bit higher than the last.  In much of the US we still have land to develop, but less and less all the time, land prices have risen, a lot...  I suspect in the UK land is much more dear than here.

Plenty of apartments and rentals being built here.  Contractors are really busy right now.  I am sure the owners will get as much rent from them as they can, but as the glut comes on rents will fall, but maybe not to past lows.

The article says it's an 18 year cycle, so that would mean something like 9 years to the next glut bottom.  Not sure its that predictable.  I suspect we are close to the peak of the bubble, maybe past it, you never really know till its over.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 3, 2022)

Skyking said:


> The real inflation rate is far greater than the 9% the government has been spewing


With respect to real estate and housing costs around here you sure are right.  Up something like 25% just this year.


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## JaniceM (Sep 3, 2022)

The first apartment I ever rented:  all I did was walk into the manager's office, read and signed a rental agreement, paid security deposit and first month's rent, and moved in.  

I had an interesting experience with another place:  living on one side of the country, wanted to move back to the opposite side, I sent a brief snail-mail note to managers of an apartment complex I was familiar with in the past.  Manager mailed me a rental agreement, which I signed and mailed back with security deposit and first month's rent.. and when I arrived there, the manager gave me the key to move in.  I did make a follow-up call after mailing in the deposit, etc., but it wasn't even necessary.  

When I moved to current apartment complex, the only unusual thing was a background check, which I'd never encountered before.  Wasn't a problem, but did mean it took longer to move in.  It wasn't til years later I asked a neighbor what background checks are for, and was told landlords/managers want to make sure prospective tenants don't have a history of evictions.  
Oh, and it's the first place I ever rented that involved leases- in the past, there were rental agreements which were basically nothing but simple rules, etc., and if tenants followed the rules and paid their rent, they were assured of a place to live til they decided to move.  

Looking for a new place, now, though, is unbelievably complicated and time-consuming.  Hoping application is approved without any problems, but always have "Murphy's Law" in mind...


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## Packerjohn (Sep 3, 2022)

No problem here for this packer.  I saw a couple of place, went back the 2nd day and saw one place again.  Got some forms to sign.  Returned with paper work.  They checked me out whether I got the bucks and my credit rating.  Got an email "congratulating" me on being accepted.  I'm not surprised at all.  I have always paid my bills way ahead of time.  They should be lucky to get a "good guy" like me.  I guess they don't want any "roaches" moving in and I can't blame them.


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## Senenity (Sep 3, 2022)

It all bogs down to supply and demand and for this there are plenty  of reasons.

More younger people are leaving home for education/ careers.
The disintegration of the joint family system in some cultures.
Many couples choose to live separately 
Many people enjoy their alone time without having to shack up with others which could end up in stressful situations.


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## NorthernLight (Sep 3, 2022)

Last year I moved to an underpopulated town. I had to go through hoops; it took about 4 days. Even though the building is at one third capacity, it's owned by a big company, and I guess it's just policy.

I passed all their requirements. The only actual glitch was signing the agreement, using an electronic signature via an app. I followed the instructions but it just didn't work.

People who don't qualify have to rent from the "slum landlord" across the street. 

As others have noted, it used to be easier. However, when I was a single mother, most landlords in my city refused to rent to me, and I had to move to a bad neighborhood. I was surprised to learn that it wasn't like that in some other cities.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 3, 2022)

Senenity said:


> More younger people are leaving home for education/ careers.


I agree.

Also with the strong economy right now many younger people are making a lot more money than they did a few years ago.  That increases their expectations, and likelihood of moving out and into a place of their own.  Just out of high school my grandson found a really good job market, he's making about $30/hr for warehouse work.  And has moved into a place of his own.  Way ahead of where he would have been not long ago.

Problem of course is just like the real estate market the job market is cyclical, those abundant high paying entry level jobs for people with little experience or skill won't last.  Maybe then he will be more likely to go back to college... hope so.


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## MarciKS (Sep 3, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I'm not specifically referring to Senior housing, just renting an apartment in general.
> In the past, my experiences were quite simple.  These days, not only are there extra (and large) costs involved, but all kinds of requirements.
> 
> So I was wondering what the reason is-  is it because there are many more people needing apartments these days that landlords can be as picky and difficult as they want, or are there more "problem" tenants these days so landlords need to be careful in who they rent to???


Around here where I'm living the landlords want $20 up front for a background check before they'll even consider letting you rent. If you have to look at more than one in a month that gets costly. They make us sign a lease that goes from year to year. The reason is that people tear the places up. They have pets when they're not allowed. They party or their kids destroy things. They don't take care of the places. When they move it costs the landlords quite a bit to fix things back up. Sometimes they have to redecorate if it's too bad. If they leave with no notice all they have is the deposit to work with. The tenants skip rent and take off and leave them with unpaid utility bills that the landlord has to end up paying. So that's why.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 3, 2022)

NorthernLight said:


> when I was a single mother, most landlords in my city refused to rent to me


That's illegal here, however I know it happens all the time.  Problem is when a single mother stops paying rent it takes longer and costs more to evict, costing the landlord money.  That is the case here in Utah where the courts are reluctant to evict single mothers.  In Florida where I owned a few rental units that was not the case, we had a very fast track eviction process.  So most landlords were less concerned about single mothers.

Just an example of the unintended consequences of things.  I am sympatric to single mothers, or any poor person who cannot make rent payments.  Got me in trouble a few times and I lost money on those rentals...  Part of the reason I got out of the business.  In the long run transferring the cost of social support to landlords just ends up increasing rents, particularly to the low income renter.


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## MarciKS (Sep 3, 2022)

NorthernLight said:


> Last year I moved to an underpopulated town. I had to go through hoops; it took about 4 days. Even though the building is at one third capacity, it's owned by a big company, and I guess it's just policy.
> 
> I passed all their requirements. The only actual glitch was signing the agreement, using an electronic signature via an app. I followed the instructions but it just didn't work.
> 
> ...


See and they need to stop having everything go through apps. Some people don't have that stuff and are unable to use it. It's not fair to deny housing because they won't accept a hand written signature.


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## JaniceM (Sep 3, 2022)

MarciKS said:


> Around here where I'm living the landlords want $20 up front for a background check before they'll even consider letting you rent. If you have to look at more than one in a month that gets costly. They make us sign a lease that goes from year to year. The reason is that people tear the places up. They have pets when they're not allowed. They party or their kids destroy things. They don't take care of the places. When they move it costs the landlords quite a bit to fix things back up. Sometimes they have to redecorate if it's too bad. If they leave with no notice all they have is the deposit to work with. The tenants skip rent and take off and leave them with unpaid utility bills that the landlord has to end up paying. So that's why.


One former neighbor said I shouldn't pick one apartment but instead apply to dozens..  I guess that's easy for people with $ to say.  It took another neighbor 3 years to find a new place.. and that's only a little more than the length of time that I've been trying.


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## NorthernLight (Sep 3, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> That's illegal here, however I know it happens all the time.  Problem is when a single mother stops paying rent it takes longer and costs more to evict, costing the landlord money.  That is the case here in Utah where the courts are reluctant to evict single mothers.  In Florida where I owned a few rental units that was not the case, we had a very fast track eviction process.  So most landlords were less concerned about single mothers.
> 
> Just an example of the unintended consequences of things.  I am sympatric to single mothers, or any poor person who cannot make rent payments.  Got me in trouble a few times and I lost money on those rentals...  Part of the reason I got out of the business.  In the long run transferring the cost of social support to landlords just ends up increasing rents, particularly to the low income renter.


At the time, it wasn't about money. I was suddenly considered a bad person because I had a child and no husband. It was a shock. The bad-neighborhood apartment cost as much as a decent apartment. Anyway, it was a long time ago. 

I wouldn't want to be a landlord though.


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## MarciKS (Sep 3, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> One former neighbor said I shouldn't pick one apartment but instead apply to dozens..  I guess that's easy for people with $ to say.  It took another neighbor 3 years to find a new place.. and that's only a little more than the length of time that I've been trying.


I would hold out for something you really want in a neighborhood you want to be in. I would wait for what you want so you don't have to keep moving. *hugs* Hope you find something soon.


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## JaniceM (Sep 3, 2022)

MarciKS said:


> Around here where I'm living the landlords want $20 up front for a background check before they'll even consider letting you rent. If you have to look at more than one in a month that gets costly. They make us sign a lease that goes from year to year. The reason is that people tear the places up. They have pets when they're not allowed. They party or their kids destroy things. They don't take care of the places. When they move it costs the landlords quite a bit to fix things back up. Sometimes they have to redecorate if it's too bad. If they leave with no notice all they have is the deposit to work with. The tenants skip rent and take off and leave them with unpaid utility bills that the landlord has to end up paying. So that's why.


That's the kind of thing that bugs me-  people who have the idea that since they don't own the apartment they're free to wreck it and leave landlords with the consequences.  

I'm wondering if that's the reason some places require first AND last month's rent in addition to security deposits.. and some that require a person's income to be at least twice (and even seen three times) the amount of the rent.  

"Pet rent" also irritates me.  Maybe if a person has a very active dog, but not most pets in general.  

The way I've always looked at rentals:  it doesn't matter that it doesn't legally belong to me, I'm as careful with other people's property as with my own.. and same goes for utility bills.


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 3, 2022)

No big changes here.

Most complexes and a few individuals require a credit/background check at the tenants expense along with one months deposit and the first months rent.


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## NorthernLight (Sep 3, 2022)

Good heavens! At least I didn't have to pay for the credit check, etc.


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## JaniceM (Sep 3, 2022)

NorthernLight said:


> Good heavens! At least I didn't have to pay for the credit check, etc.


I've never heard for paying for credit checks, either.  

One former neighbor applied to rent somewhere, and had to go to local police station to get a print-out to prove no criminal history.  It would be much simpler if landlords just check the court records page!!


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## Gary O' (Sep 3, 2022)

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but affordability may be coming into the equation.

I haven't seen rents so escalated in so short of a time
The working homeless population seems to be growing

Seems a market for tiny homes (huts) these days
I might start building them


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## JaniceM (Sep 3, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> Not sure if it's been mentioned, but affordability may be coming into the equation.
> 
> I haven't seen rents to escalated in so short of a time
> The working homeless population seems to be growing
> ...


New landlords plan a $100 per month increase.  

There is a local place that says they're building small cottages, but when I inquired they said they've only built one so far and it was in 2019.  I'm guessing they're having difficulty with funding, and/or people to do the work.


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## Gary O' (Sep 3, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> There is a local place that says they're building small cottages, but when I inquired they said they've only built one so far and it was in 2019. I'm guessing they're having difficulty with funding, and/or people to do the work.


Yeah, that's all up in the air
If things escalate, there may be some Hoovervilles popping up.


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 3, 2022)

I think the tough thing for most seniors is the impact of inflation on housing expenses.

It’s not a sinister plot by property owners just a sad and simple fact of life that costs are rising faster than their ability to pay.

About the only thing retiree’s without a strong support network can do is lower their expectations and tough it out.

IMO it has always been that way, but most people don’t  notice until it impacts them directly.


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## Chris21E (Sep 3, 2022)

Most really want stability can be responsible,  respectful, and have a stable source of funds

Most are losing jobs.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 3, 2022)

NorthernLight said:


> I was suddenly considered a bad person because I had a child and no husband.


Sorry that happened to you, and of course you were not!  I don't think many believe that way today, hopefully not anyway.  Times have changed, I think.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 3, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I'm wondering if that's the reason some places require first AND last month's rent in addition to security deposits.. and some that require a person's income to be at least twice (and even seen three times) the amount of the rent.


I am sure it pretty much is.  If everyone paid rent on time, took care of the apartments, and followed the rules there would be no need for security deposits and the like...

Some landlords are bad folks too.  In college I rented from one, soon discovered that he never returned anyone's security deposits.  I did not trash the place, but took a lot less care cleaning it up than  usual.  It can be easier to take advantage of college students, they are transient and have little recourse.


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## dko1951 (Sep 3, 2022)

In addition to the difficulty in what should simply be a easy transaction in todays world of instant information gathering, we now need to be concerned about scammers. People are running ads for rentals and collecting all the personal info. SS#, banking etc. and they're gone. The people getting burned are those from out of the area. The powers that be suggest not applying for places not in your area. Not so easy for those needing to relocate. Aren't people wonderful?


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 3, 2022)

These days landlords may check credit scores; not rent to those with low scores and require large security deposits (sometimes a full months rent or more). There are also income requirements for some places. I'm so glad I don't have to deal with those issues and hope I never do but I have loved ones who are or have been affected. I think supply, demand and potential for bad tenants plays into what's happening in the rental markets these days.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 3, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> It’s not a sinister plot by property owners just a sad and simple fact of life that costs are rising faster than their ability to pay.


No, not a sinister plot, however most property owners will charge what the market will bear.  Its the way most all businesses work. 

If costs are low then they make more profit and are more likely to invest in more housing, not reduce rent, not so long as they can get the high prices.  These new rentals will increase availability and stabilize or even lower rents.  If landlord costs are high and they lose money they will just get out of the business and no new rentals will appear.  Eventually leading to a shortage and a new rent increase cycle...

Problem is this doesn't happen instantly, it takes a while to build new rentals, in the mean time the shortage and high prices continue.  A hardship to many renters...

Not to say landlord costs haven't gone up, they have, but that is only indirectly related to what they charge.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 3, 2022)

Chris21E said:


> Most really want stability


Yep, that would be the ideal for sure!  However the world changes, stability is always fleeting...

Home ownership, for those who can do it, usually provides more stability than renting.


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## Bretrick (Sep 3, 2022)

Most certainly landlords can be more picky these days. So many people looking for somewhere to rent.
Here in Western Australia it has gotten the the stage where the only references acceptable are those from previous agencies.
No personal references acceptable


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## Alligatorob (Sep 3, 2022)

Bretrick said:


> Here in Western Australia


I find it interesting how universal this real estate and rental thing seems to be.  People worldwide here seeing the same kinds of things.  Guess the global economy is getting more real.


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## MarciKS (Sep 4, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> That's the kind of thing that bugs me-  people who have the idea that since they don't own the apartment they're free to wreck it and leave landlords with the consequences.
> 
> I'm wondering if that's the reason some places require first AND last month's rent in addition to security deposits.. and some that require a person's income to be at least twice (and even seen three times) the amount of the rent.
> 
> ...


And that's awesome! But there's an awful lot of the population that aren't like that. The landlords are trying to offer housing and protect themselves. I do think they ask for far too much rent money considering they seldom do much to keep the property up.


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## Remy (Sep 4, 2022)

I paid a pet deposit but no additional monthly cost to have a pet. When I first moved to this area in 1995 it was a lot harder to find a complex that took pets. It's actually easier now. 

Yes some tenants are scum. So are some home owners. I swear I live around a better class of people in this complex than when I owned that house. No one will be blasting their stereo outside from 10 to 10 labor day like that jerk behind me did every holiday at that house. 

But renting is getting scary and I'm berating myself for all the places I didn't buy and get out of here. If they do an inspection, my living room is cluttered. I'd take the 3 cardboard scratching posts and cat ball tracks and tunnel down to the car to make it look better I guess. And they will keep raising the rent all they can. It's not always just a good profit, it goes over to greed.


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## Remy (Sep 4, 2022)

MarciKS said:


> The landlords are trying to offer housing and protect themselves.


My understanding is that a lot of property is bought up by foreign investors. They are not wanting to get housing for people. They are wanting to make money and some of these places, I have heard sit empty, especially in hot markets like California, to wait for prices to increase.


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## Jules (Sep 4, 2022)

dko1951 said:


> In addition to the difficulty in what should simply be a easy transaction in todays world of instant information gathering, we now need to be concerned about scammers. People are running ads for rentals and collecting all the personal info. SS#, banking etc. and they're gone. The people getting burned are those from out of the area. The powers that be suggest not applying for places not in your area. Not so easy for those needing to relocate. Aren't people wonderful?


This is sage advice.


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## MarciKS (Sep 5, 2022)

Remy said:


> My understanding is that a lot of property is bought up by foreign investors. They are not wanting to get housing for people. They are wanting to make money and some of these places, I have heard sit empty, especially in hot markets like California, to wait for prices to increase.


that's no good either. i think no matter what we're just screwed. we may have to start senior citizen communes.


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## katlupe (Sep 5, 2022)

I had to fill out a 28 page application to move in here. Every year have to recertify. Same process. It is what you have to do (if you are a senior or disabled) to get help to be able to rent a decent apartment. They have a waiting list and some can take up to three years or more. Since I was considered being "in need immediately" I only waited three weeks and was put at the top of the list. 

All I hear from some people here is how much they hate it here. I can't even imagine that because I love my apartment and my friends here. Of course, it will never be like your old house was. There will be other people living pretty close to you. So if they let a trouble maker in or someone who destroys things how will you like that? If you are on the other side of the wall? The company that owns my building owns a lot of them, throughout the northeast. They pride themselves on offering "a home for possibilities" with 220 apartment communities. It is not assisted living, besides the financial help you are on your own.


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## dko1951 (Sep 5, 2022)

katlupe said:


> I had to fill out a 28 page application to move in here. Every year have to recertify. Same process. It is what you have to do (if you are a senior or disabled) to get help to be able to rent a decent apartment. They have a waiting list and some can take up to three years or more. Since I was considered being "in need immediately" I only waited three weeks and was put at the top of the list.
> 
> All I hear from some people here is how much they hate it here. I can't even imagine that because I love my apartment and my friends here. Of course, it will never be like your old house was. There will be other people living pretty close to you. So if they let a trouble maker in or someone who destroys things how will you like that? If you are on the other side of the wall? The company that owns my building owns a lot of them, throughout the northeast. They pride themselves on offering "a home for possibilities" with 220 apartment communities. It is not assisted living, besides the financial help you are on your own.


I would take what you have in a heartbeat. I have been on many lists (as they open) for two plus years. when I check on these they won't even tell me if I'm on the list, just, we'll let you know when.


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## JaniceM (Sep 5, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> These days landlords may check credit scores; not rent to those with low scores and require large security deposits (sometimes a full months rent or more). There are also income requirements for some places. I'm so glad I don't have to deal with those issues and hope I never do but I have loved ones who are or have been affected. I think supply, demand and potential for bad tenants plays into what's happening in the rental markets these days.


I got that, too (extra deposit) not because of a low credit score but because I have none..  like a penalty for not using credit, I guess.


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## JaniceM (Sep 5, 2022)

katlupe said:


> I had to fill out a 28 page application to move in here. Every year have to recertify. Same process. It is what you have to do (if you are a senior or disabled) to get help to be able to rent a decent apartment. They have a waiting list and some can take up to three years or more. Since I was considered being "in need immediately" I only waited three weeks and was put at the top of the list.
> 
> All I hear from some people here is how much they hate it here. I can't even imagine that because I love my apartment and my friends here. Of course, it will never be like your old house was. There will be other people living pretty close to you. So if they let a trouble maker in or someone who destroys things how will you like that? If you are on the other side of the wall? The company that owns my building owns a lot of them, throughout the northeast. They pride themselves on offering "a home for possibilities" with 220 apartment communities. It is not assisted living, besides the financial help you are on your own.


Recertifying.. is that like Section 8?


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## katlupe (Sep 5, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Recertifying.. is that like Section 8?


Maybe it is like it but it is not the same. Once you are renting a subsidized housing apartment you have to recertify yearly when your lease is up. Your rent can go up or down depending on if you got any more or less income. Also if you pay for any medical bills or even ovc meds they discount that from your income.


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## JaniceM (Sep 5, 2022)

katlupe said:


> Maybe it is like it but it is not the same. Once you are renting a subsidized housing apartment you have to recertify yearly when your lease is up. Your rent can go up or down depending on if you got any more or less income. Also if you pay for any medical bills or even ovc meds they discount that from your income.


That's the way Section 8 is, too.  Only recertifications are annual regardless of whether a tenant has a lease or not.  And also annual inspections of apartments.


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## katlupe (Sep 5, 2022)

dko1951 said:


> I would take what you have in a heartbeat. I have been on many lists (as they open) for two plus years. when I check on these they won't even tell me if I'm on the list, just, we'll let you know when.


I have two apartments next to me on my floor waiting to be rented and soon one downstairs will be empty. It takes them a long time to get each one ready to rent. They completely redo the inside. Are you in the northeast? The company that I rent from has a website and that is how I got here. I downloaded their form and sent it in.


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## katlupe (Sep 5, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> That's the way Section 8 is, too.  Only recertifications are annual regardless of whether a tenant has a lease or not.  And also annual inspections of apartments.


They inspect ours every year too. Everyone here has to sign a lease.  

Our building is seniors and disabled only. No children. They own a building in another city not far from here that is focused on families.


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## dko1951 (Sep 5, 2022)

katlupe said:


> I have two apartments next to me on my floor waiting to be rented and soon one downstairs will be empty. It takes them a long time to get each one ready to rent. They completely redo the inside. Are you in the northeast? The company that I rent from has a website and that is how I got here. I downloaded their form and sent it in.


Thant you, I'm in California. Another reason for the difficulty, alarming shortage of affordable housing. Really, it's everywhere.


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## JaniceM (Sep 5, 2022)

dko1951 said:


> Thant you, I'm in California. Another reason for the difficulty, alarming shortage of affordable housing. Really, it's everywhere.


What approximate price range do you consider affordable housing?  
I know when government agencies use this term, what 'they' mean and what 'we' mean differs!!!


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## debodun (Sep 5, 2022)

When I was looking at senior housing, one place required me to pay them to do a background check on me. I felt if they wanted one, they should pay for it.


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## dko1951 (Sep 5, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> What approximate price range do you consider affordable housing?
> I know when government agencies use this term, what 'they' mean and what 'we' mean differs!!!


The term is usually defined as approximately 30 percent of your monthly income. Section 8 and privately owned typically use this formula. I was rejected twice for a waitlist for affordable low-income housing because I didn't make enough?


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## JaniceM (Sep 5, 2022)

debodun said:


> When I was looking at senior housing, one place required me to pay them to do a background check on me. I felt if they wanted one, they should pay for it.


I agree!  and til it was mentioned in this thread, I never heard of prospective tenants being required to pay for it.


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## dko1951 (Sep 5, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I agree!  and til it was mentioned in this thread, I never heard of prospective tenants being required to pay for it.


Certainly not in low-income senior apts.!


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## JaniceM (Sep 5, 2022)

dko1951 said:


> The term is usually defined as approximately 30 percent of your monthly income. Section 8 and privately owned typically use this formula. I was rejected twice for a waitlist for affordable low-income housing because I didn't make enough?


The Housing Board here has listings of what they call affordable housing...  affordable to whom?!?  

As for your income situation, I had a longtime neighbor who'd been on Section 8 for the apartment he had and he had NO income.


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## dko1951 (Sep 5, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> The Housing Board here has listings of what they call affordable housing...  affordable to whom?!?
> 
> As for your income situation, I had a longtime neighbor who'd been on Section 8 for the apartment he had and he had NO income.


I met a man that paid only $150 a month for a new apt. in Sonoma County!!! All of the listings here a closed until some later date.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 5, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I agree!  and til it was mentioned in this thread, I never heard of prospective tenants being required to pay for it.


Even crazier, you have to pay for it for each rental you apply for. No rental agency will accept a copy from another agency.


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## ManjaroKDE (Sep 5, 2022)

Just a thought.


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## dko1951 (Sep 5, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> Snowbirding From S Idaho to SW Arizona would be my answer.  Did it for 5 years.  No problem.  Get the movie 'Nomadland' to see what the homeless are doing.  I had the advantage of a pension & SS to sustain me.  Many others don't.


WTF! I had read that seniors were smoking more cannabis since it became legal. Appears so.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 5, 2022)

dko1951 said:


> I met a man that paid only $150 a month for a new apt. in Sonoma County!!! All of the listings here a closed until some later date.


In California, to qualify for Section 8 housing your household income has to be 80% less than the area median to qualify as Low-Income, less than 50% of the area median to be very low-income, and less than 30% of the area median to be extremely low-income.

Section 8 and Subsidized Housing are 2 separate things. The Section 8 program is where you pay your part of the rent and the state pays the balance directly to your landlord. Your Sec 8 status can be cancelled at any time. Cheating by both tenants and landlords is rampant. Landlords are totally responsible for the cost of repairs and property destruction.

Subsidized Housing is actually owned by the state, in full or in part, and is managed by state-funded agencies. Subsidized Housing costs the state more than it earns, but it does make millions of tax dollars available to the state - money meant for contractors, utility companies, cable providers, etc.

Calif has tried to replace Sec 8 with a rent voucher program that would give the state access to more millions of tax dollars, but that hadn't gotten off the ground last I heard. But they very rarely approve a new property for Sec 8, and they've terminated a lot of Sec 8 people. Phasing it out, apparently.


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## katlupe (Sep 5, 2022)

dko1951 said:


> Thant you, I'm in California. Another reason for the difficulty, alarming shortage of affordable housing. Really, it's everywhere.


I thought you were but wasn't positive. I had a few friends who moved from there in the last few years because of that.


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## debodun (Sep 5, 2022)

When I looked at senior housing (about 6 years ago) low-amenity senior housing was running $1400 - $2000 a month (£1200 - £1750). High end places were $3000 (£2600) and up. Probably even higher now.


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## dko1951 (Sep 5, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> In California, to qualify for Section 8 housing your household income has to be 80% less than the area median to qualify as Low-Income, less than 50% of the area median to be very low-income, and less than 30% of the area median to be extremely low-income.
> 
> Section 8 and Subsidized Housing are 2 separate things. The Section 8 program is where you pay your part of the rent and the state pays the balance directly to your landlord. Your Sec 8 status can be cancelled at any time. Cheating by both tenants and landlords is rampant. Landlords are totally responsible for the cost of repairs and property destruction.
> 
> ...


Yeah, calling it "The Voucher Program" doesn't carry the stigma of Section 8. Way less demeaning.


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## katlupe (Sep 5, 2022)

debodun said:


> When I looked at senior housing (about 6 years ago) low-amenity senior housing was running $1400 - $2000 a month (£1200 - £1750). High end places were $3000 (£2600) and up. Probably even higher now.


Most people who live in the senior housing I live in do not even begin to make that amount. Not even close.


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## dko1951 (Sep 5, 2022)

katlupe said:


> Most people who live in the senior housing I live in do not even begin to make that amount. Not even close.


Every day is a work in futility and complete frustration realizing all efforts are a waste of time. But hey, that's all I have, so why not? Right?


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## Murrmurr (Sep 5, 2022)

dko1951 said:


> Yeah, calling it "The Voucher Program" doesn't carry the stigma of Section 8. Way less demeaning.


Not that the state cares about stigma. The key words in my post are "tax" and "millions available to the state". Those words always worry Californians, and for good reason.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 5, 2022)

katlupe said:


> Most people who live in the senior housing I live in do not even begin to make that amount. Not even close.


We pay just a little over $400/mo. The 4-br apts are only about $900.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 5, 2022)

debodun said:


> When I looked at senior housing (about 6 years ago) low-amenity senior housing was running $1400 - $2000 a month (£1200 - £1750). High end places were $3000 (£2600) and up. Probably even higher now.


Obviously, that's not state-subsidized, low-income housing, and not meant for old folks living on their Soc-Sec.


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## debodun (Sep 5, 2022)

katlupe said:


> Most people who live in the senior housing I live in do not even begin to make that amount. Not even close.


That's why I fell through the crack. The low-end ones were just holding tanks for people waiting to die - a room with a bed, dresser and night table. The high end ones I couldn't afford and offered more amenities than I would avail myself - like the one with an Olympic sized swimming pool.


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## Lavinia (Sep 5, 2022)

One of the big problems with renting an apartment/flat is that there are communal areas besides the accommodation itself. There are charges for heating, lighting and cleaning these areas; all of which add to the rent. Many tenants are messy and have little respect for shared corridors etc, which can cause disputes. 
Where I live, twice now a tenant has vacated their property and left piles of discarded belongings in the backyard. The rest of us have had to pay to have it removed. This is the kind of thing which needs to be clarified before you move in....who is responsible for removing excess rubbish?


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## debodun (Sep 5, 2022)

A man I used to work with was an inner-city landlord. He had nothing but trouble with tenants. Two instance he related stuck in my mind. He complained that some tenants wanted fresh air and opened the windows in the winter, then jacked up the thermostat to 90F to stay warm. Another time he had to evict a tenant (whose lease state he would be the only occupant) who rented then moved his whole extended family in. When the tenent left, he trashed the place, smashed the appliances, threw the bed out the window, and committed an atrocity that I will not mention here because of member sensitivity.

I'd never be a landlord!


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## JaniceM (Sep 6, 2022)

@ anyone here...:

1.  On Sept. 2, I received email stating "you are approved for the apartment."  Later that day, I received another email with 3 additional documents to sign.  As of today 9/6 my online application is still listed as "pending."

2.  On Sept. 1, I needed assistance from current manager to pay my rent as I couldn't figure out his online system.  This morning, I received a "past-due notice" for my rent and a big late fee.  

It isn't just me, is it- people don't know what they're doing?!?


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## Pepper (Sep 6, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> Where I live, twice now a tenant has vacated their property and left piles of discarded belongings in the backyard. The rest of us have had to pay to have it removed. This is the kind of thing which needs to be clarified before you move in....*who is responsible for removing excess rubbish*?


Why isn't your landlord responsible?


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## Lavinia (Sep 6, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Why isn't your landlord responsible?


The landlord arranged for the rubbish to be removed but then added the charge to our rent. I don't know where the law stands on this.


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## JaniceM (Sep 7, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> The landlord arranged for the rubbish to be removed but then added the charge to our rent. I don't know where the law stands on this.


Some landlords don't care about the law.  They're all about what they can get away with.


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## Remy (Sep 7, 2022)

debodun said:


> When I was looking at senior housing, one place required me to pay them to do a background check on me. I felt if they wanted one, they should pay for it.


I agree with this!


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## Remy (Sep 7, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> The landlord arranged for the rubbish to be removed but then added the charge to our rent. I don't know where the law stands on this.


That's ridiculous. Talk about max greed.


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## ohioboy (Sep 7, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> The landlord arranged for the rubbish to be removed but then added the charge to our rent. I don't know where the law stands on this.


Any surcharge not explicit or even generally implied in the rental agreement, if not requested by the tenant, must be reasonable and mostly neccessary. Notice of intent must be generally given by the LL, so the tenant can make a decision.


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## squatting dog (Sep 7, 2022)

When they moved in.... and when they moved out.    Guess you know where I stand.


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## YodaRules in NC (Sep 8, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> We pay just a little over $400/mo. The 4-br apts are only about $900.



I'm in central North Carolina and moved (last November) into a new 55+ Senior Affordable/Low Income apartment complex with 68 units (about 1/2 are 1 bedroom and 1/2 are 2 bedrooms. Just finished the recertification for 2023 and our income brackets are (this is gross income -- no deductions): 

80% = $44,940 - 59,920
60% = $37,450 - 44,940
50% = $22,470 - 37,450
30% =  minimum - 22,470

The rent does not change in the event your income drops during the recertification. Example is I came in 60% last year and this year income dropped which would put me in the 50% bracket. However, my rent will stay the same (975) instead of dropping (810).  Explaination was they built the complex with x number of 80% and 60% apartments to pay for the 50% & 40% apartments. We do take Section 8 as we as have x number of apartments set aside for Veterans. 

Patsy


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## JaniceM (Sep 8, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> When they moved in.... and when they moved out.    Guess you know where I stand.
> 
> 
> View attachment 238220 View attachment 238221


Absolutely unbelievable that people can be so destructive!!!


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## Murrmurr (Sep 8, 2022)

YodaRules in NC said:


> I'm in central North Carolina and moved (last November) into a new 55+ Senior Affordable/Low Income apartment complex with 68 units (about 1/2 are 1 bedroom and 1/2 are 2 bedrooms. Just finished the recertification for 2023 and our income brackets are (this is gross income -- no deductions):
> 
> 80% = $44,940 - 59,920
> 60% = $37,450 - 44,940
> ...


My rent has gradually gone up over the 6 yrs I've lived here, from $350 to $402, but my income didn't change until this year. Management told me it has to do with utility usage - the cost of utilities is sort of spread out among all 52 units so that the largest families don't pay over a certain amount. A 4-br apt pays way more than we do in our 1-br apt, but as with the rent, the state doesn't want their bills to exceed a certain % of their income. The state subsidizes utility costs, too, but it's a fixed amount year after year no matter what the economic situation is.

Calif is phasing out the Section 8 program because fewer and fewer owners of rental properties want to participate, and they don't want to participate because Sec 8 rules favor tenants and are a financial burden for property owners. So, basically, state legislators want someone clever to create a whole new program.

I assume they're having trouble finding someone clever. That wait-list is about 10yrs long already.


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## JaniceM (Sep 8, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> When they moved in.... and when they moved out.    Guess you know where I stand.
> 
> 
> View attachment 238220 View attachment 238221


I hope you didn't misunderstand my comment-  I wasn't doubting what you said, just disgusted that people could wreck a place.


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## squatting dog (Sep 8, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I hope you didn't misunderstand my comment-  I wasn't doubting what you said, just disgusted that people could wreck a place.


All good here. Yes, some people are just that disgusting.


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## Butterfly (Sep 11, 2022)

NorthernLight said:


> At the time, it wasn't about money. I was suddenly considered a bad person because I had a child and no husband. It was a shock. The bad-neighborhood apartment cost as much as a decent apartment. Anyway, it was a long time ago.
> 
> I wouldn't want to be a landlord though.


I managed some apartments and a couple  houses for my boss as a  side thing about 25 years ago.  It was awful and there isn't enough money to make me do anything like that again!  Ever!


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## JaniceM (Sep 15, 2022)

Finally some good news:  I've been approved for the apartment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## squatting dog (Sep 15, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Finally some good news:  I've been approved for the apartment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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