# More race riots in America



## Twixie (Aug 16, 2014)

Apparently..a black man was shot dead..which gave rise to mass looting..can anyone explain this??..

I was in Birmingham..just after Mark Duggan was shot...and I watched the riots..

Just people helping themselves as far as I could see...


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## SifuPhil (Aug 16, 2014)

That's pretty much what I see as well - opportunistic theft. Nothing to do with the central issue. This scenario has been played out many, many times here ... but as always the liberals will find excuses for it.


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## Twixie (Aug 16, 2014)

The police were cr*pping themselves..they stood back and watched them raid the phone shop..the electronic shop..the sweet shop..the hat shop..and eventually the bicycle shop..they were comparing their booty..
The next day there was a giant garage sale on a piece of abandoned ground..The bicycles still had their prices attached to them..

No police presence...


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## SifuPhil (Aug 16, 2014)

I think part of the problem is that even WITH a police presence they are ham-strung - they can't use force because that would instantly be turned into a race issue as well. 

I smell a new Detroit being born ... anyone with a law-observing nature is going to move out and the town will become another failed city.


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## Twixie (Aug 16, 2014)

Good old racist card..


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## SifuPhil (Aug 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> Good old racist card..



Yep - our society has never progressed beyond its use ...


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## Twixie (Aug 16, 2014)

I actually don't feel guilty..I am sure that no member of my family have ever employed a black slave..hell..we were slaves ourselves..children sent up chimneys...Agricultural workers..living in hedges..and there was the workhouses..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse


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## Elyzabeth (Aug 16, 2014)

SifuPhil:

Spot on !


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## GeorgiaXplant (Aug 16, 2014)

when shall all  men's good be each man's rule, and universal peace lie like a shaft  of light across the land...Alfred Lord Tennyson

When that happens, the world will be at peace, no matter the race or religion. We ALL need to learn to see beyond our own prejudices, beyond our pre-conceived notions of who and how other people are, beyond our own little worlds.

Until that happens, we will none of us be at peace with ourselves or others.


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## Warrigal (Aug 16, 2014)

The revolution of peace begins in the heart.


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## Falcon (Aug 16, 2014)

I think that if there were only two people left on earth, they'd probably end up fighting with each other


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## MrJim (Aug 16, 2014)

All those businesses that got looted should close up & move somewhere else. 

Leave them with nothing but abandoned buildings & nowhere to shop.

See how long it would take them to start complaining about how there are no businesses in their neighborhood.

Idiots.


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## ClassicRockr (Aug 17, 2014)

Things cooled down when that Captain State Trooper took over, but after the "strong-arm" robbery video came out and then the curfew was started, even that State Trooper is disappointed at what happened last night. Is it time for a BIG show of force w/the Army National Guard being brought in. Something has to be done to make the people obey the law! One person was holding a sign that read "Cops Kill Mom's". What the heck was that about?? When the town people said, "No Justice, No Peace"........they really meant it!!


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## Warrigal (Aug 17, 2014)

As someone far removed from these events I have refrained from commenting, and I still do so.
However, I do have questions.

This article caught my eye this morning and it appears to be packed with facts that might need some serious thought.
Is it true that "a black man is killed every 28 hours by police, security guards or vigilantes?"



> _August 15, 2014 _
> 
> The killing of Michael Brown by a Ferguson, MO police officer, who was identified Friday as Darren Wilson, and the aftermath in which nonviolent protesters and reporters were met with a violent and militarized police force have exposed something that has been building for years. Many have written about the militarization of the police and the disproportionate impact they have on people of color, but now more Americans are seeing this reality and cannot escape it.
> 
> ...



I've heard people on this forum complain about militarised policing and I wonder whether this has something to do with the intensity of the backlash on this occasion.

There is a lot more to read on this subject here: http://www.alternet.org/activism/ho...d-policing?paging=off&current_page=1#bookmark

I'm interested in your responses.


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## Fern (Aug 17, 2014)

If the guy hadn't of been a thief it wouldn't have happened, the moral of the story is,don't commit crime.


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## Falcon (Aug 17, 2014)

Exactly !


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## Warrigal (Aug 17, 2014)

Stealing cigars is a crime but only a petty crime. It doesn't demand the death penalty. Anyway, as far as I have heard it, the police were unaware of the robbery at the time of the shooting. Why then was he killed? This is the crucial question that needs to be asked.

I am reminded of an incident in Sydney when a Brazilian student was tazered to death by police after chasing him through the streets. He was in a paranoid state after taking LSD and had stolen two packets of biscuits from a convenience store.

After a coronial inquest the police were charged with criminal assault. Their tactics were heavily criticised at the time.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-to...of-roberto-laudisio-curti-20131213-2zb2l.html


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## Jackie22 (Aug 17, 2014)

[h=1]Chief Jackson contradicts Chief Jackson on details of robbery, shooting of unarmed teen[/h]http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...n-details-of-robbery-shooting-of-unarmed-teen 
Joan McCarter 

Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson has been forced to admit that the surveillance video showing teenager Michael Brown allegedly stealing cigarillos from a convenience store was unrelated to the killing of Brown. During Friday afternoon's press conference, Jackson said that Office Darren Wilson did not not know about the robbery or that Brown was a suspect. He was harassed by Wilson because "he was walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic. That was it." 

*Here's the problem. In his morning press conference, Jackson very clearly implied that Wilson was looking for Brown on that Ferguson street. Here's the transcript of Jackson's words from this morning. *

At 11.52, dispatch gave a description of a robbery suspect over the radio. A different officer arrived at the store where the strong-arm robbery occurred. 

A further description, more detailed, was given over the radio, and uh, stated the officer was walking toward—uh, the suspect was walking toward QuikTrip. Our officer left the sick call, he encoutered, uh uh, encountered the, uh, I’m sorry. 

At 12.01 our officer encountered Michael Brown on Canfield Drive. At 12.04 a second officer arrived on the scene, immediately following the shooting and at 12.05 a supervisor was detached, dispatched to the scene, and subsequent officers arrived. 

The officer who left the "sick call" was Wilson. Jackson is clearly connecting the two events here, the robbery, the dispatch call over the radio, Wilson leaving the call he was on and then encountering Brown. Clearly, that was bullshit. Why Jackson stood up in front of the nation on live television and put out this lie isn't clear. Incompetence? That's a given after what we've witnessed for the past week. Disinformation? If that wasn't the intent, it was the result. 

It's time for some housecleaning in the Ferguson police department, starting at the top. 


The friend that was with Brown stated that there was a confrontation between Brown and the officer about being in the middle of the street.....Four witnesses have stated that the officer shot him in the back twice as Brown was running away, then shot him several times again after he was down.  There is one witness that was on internet, talking to friends, at the time it happened...talking and posting pictures at the same time...he stated he was shot in the back while running away as it happened.


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## Warrigal (Aug 17, 2014)

This cartoon was drawn 10 years ago and referred to something that happened during the Battle for Fallujah.
 A wounded Iraqi prisoner was shot by a US marine.

http://www.democracynow.org/2004/11/16/war_crime_caught_on_tape_u

 Perhaps there is a parallel to the Ferguson incident?


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

No matter how much was wrong with the police behavior the kid was a a punk and not high on anything but himself...


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## Warrigal (Aug 18, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> No matter how much was wrong with the police behavior the kid was a a punk and not high on anything but himself...


Nothing else? Just a punk.
That is a very short eulogy.

Did you know him well?


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## rkunsaw (Aug 18, 2014)

This thread is just like the stupid rioters and looters, nobody wants to bother waiting for the facts.


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## Warrigal (Aug 18, 2014)

Short fuses are more dangerous than longer ones.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

The video of him robbing the convenience store was enough for me to know him well enough...


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## oldman (Aug 18, 2014)

Do you think the rioting and chaos would continue if the media would fold up shop and leave? Do you believe a lot of what goes on is to get attention on the news?


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

More likely to have the opportunity to loot the local stores until they are empty and boarded up.  Plus, it allows for a little extra fun.  How many would be out there in the dead of winter?


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## Jackie22 (Aug 18, 2014)

The autopsy says all shots were to the front, and one to the top of the head...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=1

Maybe shots were fired when he was running away and missed and then he turned....I have not read anything about a police report being filed, if there was one.


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## Warrigal (Aug 18, 2014)

One thing I'm a bit puzzled about. Was the police officer alone or did he have a partner with him?


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

Don't like to think about the character of the punk?


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## Vivjen (Aug 18, 2014)

Allegedly Fern, this guy was shot by a policeman who knew nothing of the crime....I feel that the facts are not out there yet.
also, the looters appear to be a different group of people from the protesters...all in all it is a very complex and bad situation..


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## Warrigal (Aug 18, 2014)

I've watched the video and I've seen more violent robberies on the school tuckshop line.

Let's not forget that the officer had no knowledge of the theft when he ordered the teens to stop walking down the centre of the road. What happened next, between that moment and the moment of the shooting, is critical to deciding whether or not the officer was justified in taking a life. I agree the lad was very big but he was also unarmed. What did he do to deserve death? Why was he killed and not the other boy?

The least important question is what is the character of Brown. It's all about the actions of the police officer and the level of threat he was experiencing.


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## Jackie22 (Aug 18, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I've watched the video and I've seen more violent robberies on the school tuckshop line.
> 
> Let's not forget that the officer had no knowledge of the theft when he ordered the teens to stop walking down the centre of the road. What happened next, between that moment and the moment of the shooting, is critical to deciding whether or not the officer was justified in taking a life. I agree the lad was very big but he was also unarmed. What did he do to deserve death? Why was he killed and not the other boy?
> 
> The least important question is what is the character of Brown. It's all about the actions of the police officer and the level of threat he was experiencing.



I agree......Character.....I'd hate to think bad character would lead to getting shot.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

One can only imagine what happened to cause the shooting but we now know this kid was no innocent lamb...


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## Warrigal (Aug 18, 2014)

What young man of his age is?
Most are idiots and larrikins and few have the sense that they will develop later.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

Most don't rob convenience stores as part of their irresponsible youthful behavior...


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## Warrigal (Aug 18, 2014)

Quite a few shoplift at some stage of their adolescence.
Others knock off hubcaps and street signs.
Others deface buildings with spray paint.
Some even travel on the trains without a ticket.
Shoot them all?


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

You are making a stretch here from shoplifting to outright stealing and intimidation...


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## Warrigal (Aug 18, 2014)

Where do you draw the line when deciding to shoot an unarmed teenager? 

(Hypothetical question, of course)


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## MrJim (Aug 18, 2014)

There has been discoverd a few minutes of audio, in a cellphone video that surfaced right after the incident, in which a black resident who witnessed the entire thing is talking to another guy. You can hear him plain as day, telling his friend that Brown continued  advancing on the officer in spite of being shot several times. This coincides with what a friend of the officer's wife told a call in radio show host about how the officer described the incident to his wife.

Also, early autopsy results are showing that all the bullet wounds were on the front of Brown's body, eliminating the notion that the officer shot him in the back as some have claimed. Also, several of the shots hit Brown in the arm, suggesting (to me anyway) that maybe the officer tried to wound him first.

Assault a cop, expect to pay the price.


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## Misty (Aug 18, 2014)

From what I have read about the 6 ft 4, 300 pound 18 year old victim is that after the police officer told Michael and his friend to get out of the street, Brown opened the police car door and he attacked the police officer and tried to get his gun, causing the gun to go off in the vehicle. 

Brown and his friend ran off and the police officer ran after them, ordering them to stop. Brown told the officer he wouldn't do anything, and Brown ran at full speed toward the officer and  wouldn't stop, causing the officer to fear for his life. The officer went to the hospital for treatment of injuries to his face, from the beating he received from Brown in his police car.

Brown strong armed the owner of the shop he robbed, and there are pictures showing him doing so. He wasn't the innocent that he was made out to be....also Browns arrest sheet showed violence and other crimes in his background.


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## MrJim (Aug 18, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Where do you draw the line when deciding to shoot an unarmed teenager?
> 
> (Hypothetical question, of course)



According to the officer's version of events, Brown (6'2" & 300 lbs) had already assaulted him & was charging at him again.

The officer was legally within his rights to use whatever means necessary, including potentially lethal force to protect his safety.


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## Warrigal (Aug 18, 2014)

One report I heard suggested that brown grabbed the officer while he was still in his car and a shot was fired.

There are a number of conflicting accounts which need to be investigated.
The first autopsy did not find any powder residue on the body suggesting that he was shot from some distance but his clothes haven't yet been tested. Until all the evidence is put before a coronial enquiry we won't know what went on. They may be more eye witnesses yet to come forward.

Why I am not rushing to judgement is because this kind of incident is not unknown over here. In one police shot to death a man who was having a psychotic episode on Bondi Beach. He was surrounded by a circle of police but was brandishing a knife. He was actually threatening to harm himself and was shot by one of the police and died. 

The other incident I've referred to before. A Brazilian student was partying with friends, apparently took some LSD and became disoriented and separated from his friends. He ended up running shirtless through the city and police tried to apprehend him. They used tazers but continued to tazer him when he was on the ground and he died.

In each case the police had to do something, but lethal force was hardly necessary. 
We don't yet know whether it was necessary in the case in Missouri.


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## MrJim (Aug 18, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> One report I heard suggested that brown grabbed the officer while he was still in his car and a shot was fired.
> 
> There are a number of conflicting accounts which need to be investigated.
> The first autopsy did not find any powder residue on the body suggesting that he was shot from some distance but his clothes haven't yet been tested. Until all the evidence is put before a coronial enquiry we won't know what went on. They may be more eye witnesses yet to come forward.
> ...



I understand exactly what you're saying DW. It's just too bad that all the people demonstrating in the streets here in the US haven't used the same restraint.

Those people had their minds made up before the ink dried on the web pages that carried the news of the incident. 

What bothers me is how people keep getting stuck on two points. One, that he was a teenager, & two, that he was "unarmed". First of all, at18 years of age, this teenager was a fully formed man who is expected to know the difference between right & wrong & have a clear understanding of where the " Do not cross" line is located. The store video of Brown roughing up that elderly man who was half his size, shows that he had no such understanding. Secondly, at his size & weight, he was not "unarmed". Anyone who has ever been involved in a physical confrontation with somebody larger & heavier than themselves, knows that kind of physical advantage is a weapon in & of itself & also, the potential injury a much larger person can inflict on a much smaller one.

But as far as rushing to judgment is concerned, the Brown supporters are the ones who've engaged in the lion's share of that. Those of us who believe & support the officer's side of the story, are the ones who are merely trying to maintain a little balance.


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## oldman (Aug 18, 2014)

I think Obama should offer the rioters a free trip to Iraq and Ahghanistan. They can riot and shoot all they want over there and relieve their frustration at the same time and also do some good.


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## Warrigal (Aug 18, 2014)

That kind of unruly behaviour happens over here when an Aboriginal boy is killed when being chased by police. 
One incident I remember involved police chasing a boy on a bicycle, calling the chase off but the boy managed to impale himself on an iron railing fence and died. The family and Aboriginal community took to the streets, blaming the police for his death. In that case the police were exonerated but nothing would convince the family that they were not to blame. The nightly disorder went on for days.


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## Davey Jones (Aug 18, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Most don't rob convenience stores as part of their irresponsible youthful behavior...



  Let me guess here..The majority of blacks in that city have no jobs OR don't want to work when welfare is freely available. Thus all the robberies to get the extra goodies that welfare doesn't provide.
Got to do SOMETHING for entertainment.


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## Sid (Aug 18, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I'm interested in your responses.



   It appears the writer of that article has written it to stir up hostile feelings.
  Just my opinion based on my observations over the years.


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## ClassicRockr (Aug 18, 2014)

Lethal force is sometimes necessary and none of us were there to see exactly what happened. When an officer is attacked, and he is by himself, no backup, he has to protect himself.........end of story! That officer under attack, wants to go home after his shift........not to the morgue! The people of Ferguson put Brown on a pedestal as if to "honor" him as the greatest teen that ever lived. To them, he was a sweet, kind, loving teen.........just DON'T pi** him off like the store clerk and perhaps the officer did. Then, the video of the store robbery came out and that upset the community b/c they demanded that Brown was such a sweetheart of a teen. What it looks like to me, his parents didn't know him like they thought they did, or perhaps they did and just ignored the bad side of him. Unfortunately, some parents do that today. 

Really hate to see what happens in this town if the officer is found "not guilty" or "partially guilty". This town will not accept nothing but 100% guilty and he spends the rest of his life in prison or worse. And, that may happen.


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## Sid (Aug 18, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I've watched the video and I've seen more violent robberies on the school tuckshop line.
> 
> Let's not forget that the officer had no knowledge of the theft when he ordered the teens to stop walking down the centre of the road. What happened next, between that moment and the moment of the shooting, is critical to deciding whether or not the officer was justified in taking a life. I agree the lad was very big but he was also unarmed. What did he do to deserve death? Why was he killed and not the other boy?
> 
> The least important question is what is the character of Brown. It's all about the actions of the police officer and the level of threat he was experiencing.




     First of all the use of the word "boy" is offensive to black people has been for years. In the video of the "friend" it seems 
     obvious he is a man if not a young man.
   Correct me if I am wrong the word "lad" is boy child.
     Here an eighteen year old is considered to be an adult not a child.
     According to the friend they were engaged at the very least a dangerous, if not an illegal act of walking in the middle of 
     the street, when approached by the officer, and indicated they had no intention complying. I admit I have encountered 
     some jerks in uniform but they do represent the law. Not implying the officer was a jerk but admitting it is possible.
     "What did he do to deserve death?" I won't say he deserved it but his actions apperantly created a situation that led to it.
     " Why was he killed and not the other boy(man)?"   You refered to the " level of threat he was experiencing." That's why.
     apparently the other man was not considered a threat. So at least the "trigger happy" cop showed some level of restraint.
      As of yet I have read nothing of toxicology reports from the autopsy. That may shed even more light on the situation.


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## Warrigal (Aug 18, 2014)

Sorry about the use of the word 'boy'. He certainly was a big teen judging from the video. However, all I saw him do was give the shopkeeper a shove and use his bulk to intimidate. His actions did remind me of a school boy pushing another boy around. I didn't really see a hardened man in action. There was no punching involved and no weapon. Sensibly, the shopkeeper decided not to push his luck.

Science tells us that male brains in particular are not fully developed until around 23, a good 5 years after they have legal majority. It is for that reason that they don't exercise good judgement and behave recklessly at times. Most do grow out of it. I'm simply stating a fact, not making excuses for poor behaviour because as has been stated earlier, the theft of the cigars had nothing to do with the shooting.

I agree about the toxicology reports. They should be helpful in shedding light on the mental state of Michael Brown. Would it be routine to check the officer's blood for alcohol and drugs when a shooting takes place? I'm still wondering why he was in a patrol car alone.


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## Sid (Aug 18, 2014)

oldman said:


> Do you think the rioting and chaos would continue if the media would fold up shop and leave? Do you believe a lot of what goes on is to get attention on the news?



     I believe the rioting and chaos will continue as long as people with an agenda keep things stirred up.


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## MrJim (Aug 18, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Sorry about the use of the word 'boy'. He certainly was a big teen judging from the video. However, all I saw him do was give the shopkeeper a shove and use his bulk to intimidate. His actions did remind me of a school boy pushing another boy around. I didn't really see a hardened man in action. There was no punching involved and no weapon. Sensibly, the shopkeeper decided not to push his luck.
> 
> Science tells us that male brains in particular are not fully developed until around 23, a good 5 years after they have legal majority. It is for that reason that they don't exercise good judgement and behave recklessly at times. Most do grow out of it. I'm simply stating a fact, not making excuses for poor behaviour because as has been stated earlier, the theft of the cigars had nothing to do with the shooting.
> 
> I agree about the toxicology reports. They should be helpful in shedding light on the mental state of Michael Brown. Would it be routine to check the officer's blood for alcohol and drugs when a shooting takes place? I'm still wondering why he was in a patrol car alone.


Re: the use of "boy", it's only considered offensive depending upon how it's used. If another guy of similar age, used it in a sneering, derisive way, especially to a black adult male, it could lead to a fight. But if an older person, especially a woman used it in reference to a young man of 18 - early/mid 20's, it is understood that it wasn't meant as an insult. Most young people understand that older folks refer to them as " kid" or "boy", etc.

Re: the rest, shoving an old man half your size while stealing from his store is not simply "schoolboy behavior" or the poor judgement of an undeveloped brain. Guys like him are becoming all too common over here in America. They are called thugs. They listen to hard core rap music, affiliate with gangs & think they can go thru life taking whatever they want then daring others to do something about it.

Even cops.

Which in this case, turned out to be his last mistake.


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## MrJim (Aug 18, 2014)

Sid said:


> I believe the rioting and chaos will continue as long as people with an agenda keep things stirred up.



That seems to be the plan, doesn't it?


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 18, 2014)

I personally think there's too much speculation on this case, and the drama the main stream media has drummed up is just adding to the turmoil.  We still don't know all the facts.  I know there's been a lots of abuse of power by the police in many cases in America, but I have a hard time believing that this officer let out 6 rounds into this young man for no reason at all.  

  Until we know if Brown charged the officer, or threatened him in any way, it's impossible to say if the cop was justified in using lethal force in this instance.  As I've said before, this whole thing would have never even happened if he followed the simple instruction from the cop in the first place, to get back on the sidewalk. 

The officer was not aware of the robbery by Brown which occurred beforehand, so that wasn't a factor in the shooting.  But, it may have been a factor in the way Brown responded to the officer when told to get out of the street. 

 I'm sure there's a lot of folks in the city who are not having anything to do with the rioting and looting, so the whole community shouldn't be judged by the small percentage of violent/criminal element.  I await some real facts about exactly what took place and why, so far all reports seems to be very vague and suspicious.  The way they're reporting the story, definitely does not put the officer in a good light.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 19, 2014)

Trayvon Martin redux...


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## SifuPhil (Aug 19, 2014)

Sid said:


> First of all the use of the word "boy" is offensive to black people has been for years. In the video of the "friend" it seems
> obvious he is a man if not a young man.



Then why do adult blacks use the term all the time? Is this another case of "_They_ can use it but _we_ cannot?" 



> Correct me if I am wrong the word "lad" is boy child.



The Beatles were "lads".

This was a "kid" or, more likely, a "punk".


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## WhatInThe (Aug 19, 2014)

drifter said:


> Stealing a box of cigars doesn't equal being shot to death. The military donating this equipment to police is part of the problem. It changes the attitude of already bad attitudes on police forces. Hiring people who are not mentally qualified to deal with people or even carry a gun. Police department's training has changed to make cops feel when they go with this equipment, they are going to war and citizens are the enemy. America is sill very much a racist society. Most cops are like the rest of us. Individually we are nice people. When we all get together, we can be like a pack of wild animals. But these littles happenings are small wars. Police forces are like property management companies, they manage people for the rest of us. Not to worry.



I think a lot of unprofessional police view most of the public as potential danger and a potential criminal. The problem besides presumptuous police is that the perpetrators although viewed as a punk ASSume that police are viewing by race and not thuggish behavior when in the fact the police see a thug, not because they are racist but because from their eyes they see punk with an attitude. The perps frequently try to victimize themselves when in fact they are a victim of their behavior and NOT ethnicity. Should the police be acting on attitude-no. But sometimes  a thug is just a thug or attitude is just an attitude.

' property management companies' -excellent.

This is why so many support the police or give them cart blanch because it's a job they want to avoid at all costs. Many even view police as their personal protectors or their life is 'special' so they expect to be protected by any means necessary. This is why they equip them like mercenaries.


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## drifter (Aug 19, 2014)

Fern said:


> If the guy hadn't of been a thief it wouldn't have happened, the moral of the story is,don't commit crime.


Stealing a box of cigars doesn't equal being shot to death. The military donating this equipment to police is part of the problem. It changes the attitude of already bad attitudes on police forces. Hiring people who are not mentally qualified to deal with people or even carry a gun. Police department's training has changed to make cops feel when they go with this equipment, they are going to war and citizens are the enemy. America is sill very much a racist society. Most cops are like the rest of us. Individually we are nice people. But dressed up in their soldier's uniforms, with their armored equipment, their military weapons, their brand new post 9-11 attitudes and they are a threat to citizens whenever and wherever they are called out. Most small towns would be better off with out a police department. Actually police forces are like Property management companies; they manage these little events for the rest of us. But these littles happenings are small wars. Not to worry, only a few will be killed and Ferguson will go away with everybody back in their place.


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## Misty (Aug 19, 2014)

[h=1]BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack[/h] [h=3]Posted by Jim Hoft on Tuesday, August 19, 2014, 10:00 AM[/h]    



  The Gateway Pundit can now confirm from _two local St. Louis sources_  that police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his  confrontation with deceased 18 year-old Michael Brown. Officer Wilson  clearly feared for his life during the incident that led to the shooting  death of Brown. 
Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an *“orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.”* This comes from a source within the *Prosecuting Attorney’s office* and confirmed by the *St. Louis County Police*.



A blowout fracture is a fracture of one or more of the bones  surrounding the eye and is commonly referred to as an orbital floor  fracture. (AAPOS) This comes after _St. Louis Post-Dispatch_ reporter tweeted out last night that a dozen local witnesses confirmed Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson’s version of the Brown shooting story.


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## oldman (Aug 19, 2014)

I'm glad to read that everyone is keeping an open mind and that no one is opinionated about the kid, the situation or the police. 

It's OK to have an opinion, even if a person does it without facts to back them up. After all, we are in America and are allowed to think and speak freely. However, I believe that when people begin to talk smack or badly about a person or groups of people they may be crossing the line.   How can anyone judge someone or a group of people, like cops, when maybe just 1% are out of touch with reality and behave poorly? What about the other 99%? For me, I would never want to be in a society without police, at least not here in the U.S. and I would be willing to bet a dollar that the people in Ferguson, black or white, would not want to be either. No one ever accused all cops as being only good guys with super human intelligence and having the most common sense. 

I am not a cop, never been or wanted to be a cop, but I respect most of them and appreciate the job that they do. Sure, some cops walk around with that, "I dare you to knock that chip off of my shoulder" attitude, but I have found most cops to be friendly, helpful and ready to perform their duty. It's like anything else in life; we have good plumbers and bad plumbers, good doctors and bad doctors and good cops and bad cops. 

I am willing to let this thing in Missouri play itself out and then make my case. (You would never believe how upset I was when Casey Anthony walked.) I guess some people are just at war with the world and everybody in it.


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## Jackie22 (Aug 19, 2014)

oldman said:


> I'm glad to read that everyone is keeping an open mind and that no one is opinionated about the kid, the situation or the police.
> 
> It's OK to have an opinion, even if a person does it without facts to back them up. After all, we are in America and are allowed to think and speak freely. However, I believe that when people begin to talk smack or badly about a person or groups of people they may be crossing the line.   How can anyone judge someone or a group of people, like cops, when maybe just 1% are out of touch with reality and behave poorly? What about the other 99%? For me, I would never want to be in a society without police, at least not here in the U.S. and I would be willing to bet a dollar that the people in Ferguson, black or white, would not want to be either. No one ever accused all cops as being only good guys with super human intelligence and having the most common sense.



I'm sure your comments here apply to the black community also....that they are not all on welfare or out rioting for entertainment.


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## Misty (Aug 19, 2014)

No disrespect meant, but does anyone find it strange that when a police officer shoots a white person, an investigation takes place, the officer is put on leave while the investigation takes place. With the Michael Brown case, there is looting, violence, peace marches, a Black Panther Rally chanting Death to Officer Darren Wilson, a Presidential press conference, Attorney  General asked to personally oversee an investigation, President shortening his  vacation to speak with advisors over the shooting, more than 40 FBI  agents canvassing neighborhoods where the shooting occurred. 3 autopsies  etc. It looks more like an assassination or terrorist attack took place  in Ferguson.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 19, 2014)

I agree Misty, it's more like a terrorist attack or planned assassination happened there.  I've said before that a lot of the media seem to also be pitting citizens against each other, or 'race baiting'.  There were many blacks attacking whites and Asians in the knockout game awhile back, that slip through the cracks of the news, but when the one white jerk from Texas decided to hit a black man in the same manner just to see if he'd make headlines, he was proven right.

They had a big thing that it was a "hate crime".  What crime isn't a hate crime?  And years back when the homosexual man Shepherd was killed, the media had a field day saying how it was nothing but hate against gays.  Come to find out that this guy was actively involved in drug deals, and the murderer himself was gay.  But, we didn't hear much about that.

When that character Zimmerman killed Martin, they went on and on about how a white guy killed a black child.  Well, Zimmerman sure didn't look like any white people in my family, but it made headlines, got people angry and baited one race against another. Zimmerman needed to just mind his business, and let the police handle the problem, if in fact there ever was one.   There are bad whites, blacks and policemen.  Each case should be dealt with as you say, have an investigation and leave behind the media circus and all the drama that's tied to it.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 19, 2014)




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## Vivjen (Aug 19, 2014)

Unfortunately; another black guy has been shot dead by police; will this just inflame the situation?


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## Shamhat (Aug 19, 2014)

"Give peace a chance, yes, but why not get serious and give it a place in the curriculum:  peace courses in every school, every grade, every nation.  Unless we teach our children peace, someone else will teach them violence."  -Coleman McCarthy

There is never an excuse for looting, stealing, stereotyping or murder.  The whole picture is a horrible testament to the state of affairs in America. Neither course justifies the other.  Each should be addressed and corrected separately.  I am a black female retired cop and the mother of a 33 year old man.


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## MrJim (Aug 19, 2014)

This is still the scars form the bad old days.

But still, it's getting high time for the black community to get over all that & move forward.

All this rioting & blaming everything on racism is not moving forward.


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## drifter (Aug 19, 2014)

We look at things and see it differently. The western states are somewhat immune but i see the US drifting toward a third world mentality and employment. We're already a police state. We'll be a third world police state with a large stock market designed to rtelieve the small investor of his money (in other words rigged). 

We've had a war on in this country against black men. We send a bunch to prison, kill a certain amount and watch and watch the others like hawks. What else can they do but what they're doing. I know. Everyone thinks they deserve what they get. The world will never be the same as the one you grew up in, worked in, and retired in. The country she is a-changing, going down hill my friends. If you're flush and have it made, enjoy.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 19, 2014)

America is changing, and we should just accept it and work on the issues that we're having here these days, improving our economic position, and not fighting with fellow Americans...we're all in the same boat.  It seems that we worry more about other countries nowadays, while ignoring the fact that ours is going down the toilet, with business going overseas for tax breaks, etc.

It seems like certain things have become the 'new normal' in America, whether we like it or not.  I think rather than being upset over it, and wishing things were as they were in the past, we'd be better just to accept it, even if we can't embrace it.  We can't look back, we have to see things now for what they are and accept them...or actively try to change them if at all possible.

 Interest rates on our savings accounts, CDs, IRAs use to be higher, giving us a good feeling about putting aside some money for our retirements, etc.  Now they are so low, it's depressing.  They used to give you a free toaster to open a checking account in a bank, now they charge you to keep your money their, and use their facility.  Many have a monthly fee, especially if your funds go below their limit, like $1,000.

 Americans used to be proud, and feel safe and free in their country.  Now, even the best of citizens are held under a microscope for inspection by the government.  Our every move is monitored by a camera, recorder or computer.  Instead of them having to prove our guilt, now we have to fight to prove our innocence.

 In the past, most people took care of their own, even if it was a struggle.  There was a family model, and children were raised to respect their parents and elders, obey laws and rules at school, and be accountable for their own actions.  Folks were eager to help each other too, and those who had hard luck in the workplace, were not content until they found new employment, regardless of salary, just to make ends meet.  Now, people expect to be taken care of, and never know the value and pride of taking care of themselves and their families, and I see it happening with all races.

 Years ago farmers and ranchers could devote their lives to growing and producing to provide crops and food for others in the US, and make a living at it.  Now, they're being monitored by drones and red-tape.  They're being told what seeds they can or cannot use, they have lost all of their individual freedom to seek and acquire the American dream.

 It used to be that if you chose a specific medical treatment for your condition, it was not disputed.  If you didn't want to get a vaccination, then it wasn't forced, just suggested.  Now, if a parent with a child who has cancer want to use alternative treatments, they are threatened by the government to have their child removed from the home, and forced to use chemotherapy and radiation against their wills.  If you don't want to get certain vaccinations, there are more laws and regulations to mandate it, taking all of your free choice away.

 People worked hard all their lives, and paid their taxes like responsible citizens...looking forward to retirement in their old age, social security and Medicare...now they're looked down on like they expect welfare or 'entitlements'.  It seems like the seniors are getting a slap in the face for their hard work.

 People were amazed at the invention of the computer, now it controls our lives.  People no longer have any contact with each other, they only know what they see and hear on social media.  They are glued to their devices, and often even sleep with them.  They no longer develop emotionally or mentally with life experiences, some younger teens have no empathy or compassion for their fellow man...they are self-involved, telling their stories and taking selfies, trying to outdo the other 'friend' on their social page.

 It seems like everything is out of our control, and any changes being made are no longer for the good of the people and the nation.  Things weren't perfect years ago, but I wish I could turn back the hands of time.  Now, our habits and thoughts are constantly being manipulated, for the benefit of the "higher-ups"...doesn't seem fair, but is just a part of the 'new normal'.

 Well, isn't as doomy and gloomy when we just realize that things will never be like they were, and if we accept, deal with it, and move forward, it won't be too bad.  I think the country is changing, but it doesn't have to go downhill, IMO.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 20, 2014)

Onward and upward?  Perhaps...


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## WhatInThe (Aug 20, 2014)

Misty said:


> *BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack*
> 
> *Posted by Jim Hoft on Tuesday, August 19, 2014, 10:00 AM*
> 
> ...



I see evidence of a struggle. The protestors will see a fabricated excuse although it came out early on the officer had to be checked for swelling. Then I hear something to the effect the officers weapon went off during a preliminary struggle in the car. Many witnesses are confirming the officer was charged or the suspect was charging. But the protestors/talking heads say if the shots were fired with the suspect over 35 ft away the officer was not in danger?

The most troubling is the extortion being attempted by the protestors demanding an immediate arrest and prosecution-mob rule. Have no problem with a formal inquiry in addition to a normal shooting review but to imply a preferred outcome is extortion.

Appalling but not surprising was the Democratic governor demanding a vigorous prosecution. It not only implies guilt but it is obvious pandering.


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## Warrigal (Aug 20, 2014)

I hear that the matter will go before a Grand Jury to decide whether a prosecution is warranted.


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## oldman (Aug 20, 2014)

A lawyer friend of mine told me not to be surprised if the cop sues the family and/or city. I told him that I wouldn't be surprised, but I would be shocked.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 20, 2014)

Little note about the good that's happening in Ferguson...http://kindnessblog.com/2014/08/20/another-view-of-ferguson-kindness-generosity-and-compassion/


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## Misty (Aug 21, 2014)

Ferguson Prosecutor Says No Charge Decision Until October
By Tim Bross  Aug 20, 2014 2:59 PM CT 


The Missouri grand jury that began considering evidence today in the police killing of an unarmed man won’t decide whether to indict Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson until October “at the earliest,” a spokesman for the local prosecutor said.


The grand jury, which is presented testimony and other evidence by prosecutors, must decide whether to indict Wilson for the shooting in the St. Louis suburb, and on what charge.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...rge-decision-until-october.html#disqus_thread


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 21, 2014)

Seems though the "Gentle Giant" might have been an out of control raging bull...


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## Warrigal (Aug 21, 2014)

It's possible.


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## Warrigal (Aug 21, 2014)

At least one of the police officers has been suspended for being out of control.
He was pointing his weapon at people involved in the protest and threatened to kill them.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/20/us/missouri-police-officer-suspended/index.html

Another piece of video shows the police and protestors well separated from each other and the protestors are obeying orders to move off the road and one of the police is pointing his weapon at them and lighting them up with lazer beams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMqZl-Do1U0


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## ClassicRockr (Aug 21, 2014)

The way he came at the store clerk, in the video, sure would point towards that! I sure wouldn't want to get him "peeved" at me! 


Ralphy1 said:


> Seems though the "Gentle Giant" might have been an out of control raging bull...


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## WhatInThe (Aug 21, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> At least one of the police officers has been suspended for being out of control.
> He was pointing his weapon at people involved in the protest and threatened to kill them.
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/20/us/missouri-police-officer-suspended/index.html
> ...



I hope incidents like this bring to light the hiring and training practices of many smaller town police departments in America. 

I understand the local police feel stressed, can't stand the media and just want this over with. But being a member of a paramilitary organization they're should be discipline/restraint from the officers themselves and more control from their command structure. It seems like many of these neighboring out of town police officers brought in are being used and acting like contractors.

But police departments across America are already filled with adrenaline junkies, bullies, the righteous etc. Their leadership has allowed and even invited this type of police officer.

It starts at the hiring process. Like most government jobs a police officer position is given out by the politicians as or for political favors. They find ways to skirt around the civil service aspect of government hiring practices. In our county which is a reflection of many across America you need a politician's name as a reference on your application just be a secretary in an office let alone a cop. In years past our town has been caught hiring convicted criminals and applicants with a known violent past. Tests have had to be rescored. Applicants frequently complained about the two minute interview. Military veterans and college graduates have successfully sued to show their qualifications merited them getting the job over lesser qualified individuals. Veterans are frequently denied veterans preference in the testing/hiring process. The tests many small towns use can be scored the way the town wants-supposedly answers and patterns profile the applicant. I was told by politicians they usually are set the test to look for either a gung ho arrest them all or a real "low" key do as little possible individual. Keep in mind there are no right or wrong answers and this is for an applicant, not an academy graduate. There are stories of those who answered differently on the same question where one got hired and the other didn't. But that shows a lack of standards even with a state mandate of a police officer skill set.

Also just like corporate America many towns downsize and/or outsource with part-time or temporary officers which means many places are patrolled and staffed by guys that work as a cop less than half the year. They are frequently used to cover vacations or so called slow times. Some police I've talked to say if they hire one of these part-timers they have to be sent to a police academy again. 

I think a lot these St Louis/Ferguson area police officers simply never dealt with or had any serious training for situations like this.


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## romfty (Aug 21, 2014)

Luckily for us, we have young men and women who are prepared to do these Policing duties for us, to keep us safe............... they make mistakes, as we all do  in life, let the law run its course to solve this,   incidentally, on the early pages of this thread someone commented that the British Police were frightened to go in and stop the riots in Birmingham...... not true, the lads and lasses on the ground were furious that they had been ordered to stand back.........mealy mouthed senior officers and politicians ordered them to do so.


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## Davey Jones (Aug 21, 2014)

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!There are more news media, photographer then there are demonstrators.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 21, 2014)

I heard a news reporter who was there on a radio talk show last night.  She said that there were two news cameramen there for every one protestor, and said that she felt if the cameras left the scene so would the protestors.  Another case where greedy media comes first over what's right for the people and the community.


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## Warrigal (Aug 21, 2014)

Interesting information, WhatInThe.

Because of our different development history we don't have any such thing as local police. We have state and federal police forces only so recruitment and training is much more centralised. The same applies to education and hospitals. This takes political patronage out of the equation.

Our police, unlike the British, are armed with pistols and they also carry tazers, which have been controversial at times.


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## drifter (Aug 21, 2014)

Dame Warrigal, do you have a race problem ever?


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## Sid (Aug 21, 2014)

To make matters worse we have, "One Democratic Missouri state senator remarked that if no indictment is brought against Wilson, then the current rioting "will seem like a picnic.".  Is that a threat or a prophecy?


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## WhatInThe (Aug 21, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Interesting information, WhatInThe.
> 
> Because of our different development history we don't have any such thing as local police. We have state and federal police forces only so recruitment and training is much more centralised. The same applies to education and hospitals. This takes political patronage out of the equation.
> 
> Our police, unlike the British, are armed with pistols and they also carry tazers, which have been controversial at times.



I wish federalization or jobs had less patronage in them but unfortunately not. To go to any of the major military academies you need a national politician's reference in which a daisy chain of favors start at the local level. Some deserve it, some get in simply because they had easy access to a politician and some will do anything and everything to obtain their goal. I don't know which is worse sometimes the politician who gives the favors or the people that seek them out.

Although federal law enforcement requirements eliminate a lot of applicants there tends to be enough that a "reference" from a politico will not hurt. The problem is the politicians have so much control over budgets and are already in a system based on favors & deals that the politicians reference has become a way of life/business as usual.

The politics does not stop at the hiring process. Many local politicians stick their nose in to promotions and non civil service test hires which affect the local departments. Not only to gain rank but to get on a something like a  task force or get on a special squad like SWAT you frequently need at least a verbal reference from a politico. Special units and training can build an officer's resume and lead to overtime which is like gold in many departments.

Problems is the a "favor" frequently needs to be returned which could amount to cover ups and poor decisions which could include accepting budget cuts which could affect one's job.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 22, 2014)

Misty said:


> *BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack*
> 
> *Posted by Jim Hoft on Tuesday, August 19, 2014, 10:00 AM*
> 
> ...



They said last night on the radio that the report about the 'orbital blowout' was false.


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## Davey Jones (Aug 22, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> They said last night on the radio that the report about the 'orbital blowout' was false.



Thank Gawd....still trying to figure out what an "orbital blowout" is,first time Ive ever heard that one.
Thought something happened up in space with a satellite.


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## Misty (Aug 22, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> They said last night on the radio that the report about the 'orbital blowout' was false.



Very Interesting, SeaBreeze.....Thanks for sharing the latest.  Today Cnn is stating he had a swollen face with no serious injury. Yesterday the news stated that the media was leaving ferguson because of further evidence backing the police officer. Like others have mentioned, looks like it's best to wait until all the evidence is in.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 22, 2014)

The media should get the heck out of there Misty, they made their headlines, promoted the violence with their presence, and they need to stay away.  When reporters from all over are there, 2 to 1 ration to the protestors, you know there's a problem with the main stream media.  All the reports of this incident, on both sides, appears to be very iffy, will be interesting to find out the whole truth of the matter.


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## MrJim (Aug 22, 2014)

Misty said:


> Very Interesting, SeaBreeze.....Thanks for sharing the latest.  Today Cnn is stating he had a swollen face with no serious injury. Yesterday the news stated that the media was leaving ferguson because of further evidence backing the police officer. Like others have mentioned, looks like it's best to wait until all the evidence is in.



My question to CNN & any other news source is... "What does it matter if the cop's facial bones were fractured or not?" If there is evidence that the officer was attacked & struck, that was enough for him to draw his pistol & order them to freeze. If Brown did, in fact, charge at the officer, that was reason to shoot.

Period.


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## Elyzabeth (Aug 22, 2014)

"That's pretty much what I see as well - opportunistic theft. Nothing to do with the central issue. This scenario has been played out many, many times here ... but as always the liberals will find excuses for it" (quote from Situ Phil)

SPOT ON !!!


... and have people here seen the photos of the "victim" robbing someone????
They were published in the paper a few days ago, might have not made  to America.. too inflammatory???


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## Elyzabeth (Aug 22, 2014)

Sea breeze the media is not responsible for what is happening

The police are not responsible for what is happening.. 


The criminals who are doing the lootings and robberies are responsible for what is happening,

and only they, are responsible for it!!!


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## Misty (Aug 23, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> The media should get the heck out of there Misty, they made their headlines, promoted the violence with their presence, and they need to stay away.  When reporters from all over are there, 2 to 1 ration to the protestors, you know there's a problem with the main stream media.  All the reports of this incident, on both sides, appears to be very iffy, will be interesting to find out the whole truth of the matter.



So true, SeaBreeze...now that they are leaving, things are quieting down. Instead of just reporting the news, they try to promote news and put their own slant to the news.


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## WhatInThe (Aug 23, 2014)

I'm afraid this is only round one. The next round goes to the grand jury and verdict. The bias and incompetent coverage of that is fanning the flames already. The round after that will be a trial.


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## Sid (Aug 23, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> "That's pretty much what I see as well - "opportunistic theft". Nothing to do with the central issue. This scenario has been played out many, many times here ... but as always the liberals will find excuses for it" (quote from Situ Phil)
> 
> SPOT ON !!!
> 
> ...



           I think the words "opportunistic theft" do a pretty good job of describing the situation.
           Let not forget the media are not the only guilty ones.
           You have state and federal politicians jumping in front of the spotlight as well as activist who are there to simply promote their name and personal gain.


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## Warrigal (Aug 23, 2014)

drifter said:


> Dame Warrigal, do you have a race problem ever?


Sometimes. The indigenous population is ravaged by alcohol and there have been riots after someone has been thrown out of a pub. Ditto if an aborigine child is killed while being chased by the police (not necessarily the police at fault) and anger is whipped up in the community. The anger that is released is not necessarily directly relevant to the particular incident but something that has built up over years of slights and discrimination. Nothing on the scale of what we are seeing in Missouri though.

We sometimes have clashes between different ethnic groups. The so-called Cronulla riot was really just a brawl between Anglo and Lebanese youths over a perceived insult to some Anglo girls on the beach. It happened in two waves. First the Lebanese were attacked by the surfies, who are very territorial by the way, and the next day the Lebanese returned with reinforcements looking for revenge. They worked their way down the beach promenade smashing car windows but the police prevented serious bloodshed. It was very nasty and the worst part was one of our talk back parrots stirring up resentment against the Lebanese and encouraging the violence. Social media via mobile phones was a feature of this incident.

Earlier than this a group of Lebanese and Maoris boys declared war on the Vietnamese, again over a girl, and it looked like something out of West Side Story. Interestingly, the Vietnamese won the battle due to superior martial arts skills.

As race problems go, these are not terribly problematic because they aren't persistent. The Indigenous problem is persistent but improving over time. They still suffer discrimination but less than in past times.

Please don't think that racism doesn't exist in Australia. It does and it is ugly but it does not erupt into violence very often.


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## MrJim (Aug 24, 2014)

In America, some people take it as a given that racism is one sided & only engaged in by white people.

But of course, some of the biggest racists around are black.


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## Twixie (Aug 24, 2014)

MrJim said:


> In America, some people take it as a given that racism is one sided & only engaged in by white people.
> 
> But of course, some of the biggest racists around are black.



The thing is that these men..when they have been shot by the police, according to the black community..was an avid church goer..loved his mom..and frequently worked for charity...

But when you look them up on Facebook..they are standing there..usually holding a gun or knife..with a gang scarf on their heads!!


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## Bullie76 (Aug 24, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> I'm afraid this is only round one. The next round goes to the grand jury and verdict. The bias and incompetent coverage of that is fanning the flames already. The round after that will be a trial.



True. Lots more to come. If the officer is eventually found not guilty, all hell will break loose. The only way out of this is to find him guilty. A lot of pressure will be on the jury. I'm glad I won't be on it.


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## WhatInThe (Aug 24, 2014)

I've been reading reports of government provocateurs inciting crowds to justify a military style crackdown.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...t-provocateurs-inciting-violence-3013816.html

Don't scuff at this report. I've seen or heard reports for years of government agencies and police departments infiltrating hippy peace protest groups during the Vietnam War. Every now and then the Feds or local police get caught spying on groups without any evidence of criminal wrong doing for probable cause for a search warrant-meaning their "intelligence" gathering activities could be considered warrantless searches.

Also remember the military has conducted military exercises in urban environments several times over the years. And has to justify big budgets and equipment.

I'm not sure when these provocateurs would've entered the protests or their precise purpose but do not put it past them.


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## drifter (Aug 24, 2014)

Thanks for the comeback, Warr. I have been talking to a number of white dudes on an Australian forum when i thought you didn't see my question. To some its a sensitive subject. More in the way we managed the American Indians than the way we have managed our blacks. And there are two minds to everything. Cheers.


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## Misty (Aug 24, 2014)

The other side


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## Ina (Aug 24, 2014)

Well said. There are always two sides to any issue.


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## Warrigal (Aug 24, 2014)

Perhaps this sort of this is the cause of anger and resentment in certain communities.
How many white mothers have this sort of thing happen to them and their children?
If it happened to me and mine, once I was over the shock, I would be wanting to declare war on someone or something.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Forn...led-over-at-gunpoint-by-police-272391361.html


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## Ina (Aug 24, 2014)

Warrigal, When my oldest was murdered, I felt like doing to the murderer the same that was done to my son. But they caught him the next day, making it possible for my son children to have someone to raise them. Sometimes we have to swallow the evil to be able to help those we love.


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## Warrigal (Aug 24, 2014)

I agree with you 100%, Ina. I'm talking about feelings, not actions. Law should always prevail and as far as is humanly possible, law should be just, with everyone being equal under the law. An ideal certainly but society is measured by how close we come to realising our ideals.

When some people are demonstrably not equal before the law then anger does build up, sometimes to bursting point. I understand that.


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## Ina (Aug 24, 2014)

Warrigal, I totally agree. That's why I said I felt like doing... But those were just emotions. Unless physically threaten myself, I couldn't harm another being. But sometimes we need to let our thought release some of the emotions so we can move on.:wave:


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## MrJim (Aug 24, 2014)

Twixie said:


> The thing is that these men..when they have been shot by the police, according to the black community..was an avid church goer..loved his mom..and frequently worked for charity...
> 
> But when you look them up on Facebook..they are standing there..usually holding a gun or knife..with a gang scarf on their heads!!



Sweet little Michael Brown...



Spoiler












...giving the finger & flashing gang signs.

Now, to be fair... that is typical teenage behavior & does not necessarily mean he was a gangsta or a hardened criminal.

But this...






... is pretty damning.


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## Warrigal (Aug 24, 2014)

Also to be fair, the police officer who shot him had no idea about the robbery or any gang connections.
The events immediately before the shooting are the only events that are relevant now.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 24, 2014)

I don't see anything that Michael Brown has done that warrants his head being blown off.  People are definitely taking sides as they usually do in these cases.  I personally would like to hear what _really _happened on that day, some facts instead of speculation.  It will be interesting, hopefully we will get the full account of why that man was shot that day.  It's unfortunate that everyone has to wait so long for the answers, let's hope we get the real truth no matter who it favors.  I think the officer deserves a fair trial, and should not be threatened.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 24, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Also to be fair, the police officer who shot him had no idea about the robbery or any gang connections.
> The events immediately before the shooting are the only events that are relevant now.



I think we've said that before Warri, but nobody seems to care.  Thanks for being fair, and pointing this out again.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 24, 2014)

Shamhat said:


> "Give peace a chance, yes, but why not get serious and give it a place in the curriculum:  peace courses in every school, every grade, every nation.  Unless we teach our children peace, someone else will teach them violence."  -Coleman McCarthy
> 
> There is never an excuse for looting, stealing, stereotyping or murder.  The whole picture is a horrible testament to the state of affairs in America. Neither course justifies the other.  Each should be addressed and corrected separately.  I am a black female retired cop and the mother of a 33 year old man.



I agree with you.  There is no excuse for looting, stereotyping or murder.  America is in a much sadder state of affairs than I imagined growing up in the 50s and 60s...thought things would be so much better by now.  Instead, we're slipping backwards in many areas.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 25, 2014)

The video goes to character and shows that the kid could be dangerous and this point is worth repeating here again...


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## Twixie (Aug 30, 2014)

The next time a white person is shot..I am going looting..I could do with a new freezer..


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## MrJim (Aug 30, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I think we've said that before Warri, but nobody seems to care.  Thanks for being fair, and pointing this out again.


 
And nobody on Michael Brown's side seems to give any credence whatsoever to the *very real possibility* that Officer Wilson might have been defending himself against a 6'2", 300 lb charging bull who had, moments earlier, punched him in the face repeatedly & tried to take his weapon away from him.

Obviously, there is no proof that that is what happened, but given the video from the store, we can all see what the "kid" was capable of & what his state of mind seemed to be.

No normal, innocent, well-intentioned person would attack a police officer & try to take their gun. If you are a cop who was just involved in such an encounter & you see that same person charging straight at you, after daring you to shoot him, what else are you supposed to think is about to happen to you if you just stand there & do nothing???

Was the cop supposed to jump back in his truck, lock the doors & cower like a little girl? Take off & run away while calling for help? 

Might as well just put up signs telling the criminals they won & to just do whatever they want, because the police are too frightened of them to do their job.

I believe the cop's version of events. It is by far, the most plausible & likely scenario.


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## MrJim (Aug 30, 2014)

Twixie said:


> The next time a white person is shot..I am going looting..I could do with a new freezer..



Don't forget to bring a hand truck or appliance dolly with you, as those things are pretty heavy.

Unless you know of a nearby store you can loot one of those from first!!!


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## Twixie (Aug 30, 2014)

MrJim said:


> And nobody on Michael Brown's side seems to give any credence whatsoever to the *very real possibility* that Officer Wilson might have been defending himself against a 6'2", 300 lb charging bull who had, moments earlier, punched him in the face repeatedly & tried to take his weapon away from him.
> 
> Obviously, there is no proof that that is what happened, but given the video from the store, we can all see what the "kid" was capable of & what his state of mind seemed to be.
> 
> ...



Bit like the Mark Duggan shooting over here..a well known drug dealer..sat in a taxi with a gun..when he saw armed cops..he threw the gun out of the window..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...shot-dead-marksman-did-not-gun-hand-time.html



He was apparently one of the most violent criminals in Europe..

Whose shooting gave rise to the biggest ''help yourself'' lootings that ever happened in Britain!!

I tried to post you a newspaper quote..''Duggan wasn't an Angel..he was a gangster'' unfortunately it appears to have been (ahem) deleted!!


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## MrJim (Aug 30, 2014)

I don't approve of everything the cops do, but I sure as heck (being polite here) am not going to jump to conclusions & condemn one of them for defending their lives. These guys deal with violent, hard core thugs & criminals on a daily basis & know that every day they start a shift could be their last. 

Given what we now know about Brown's activities just prior to the shooting, I think it's a fairly safe bet that he attacked the cop & forced him to shoot.


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## Twixie (Aug 30, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Don't forget to bring a hand truck or appliance dolly with you, as those things are pretty heavy.
> 
> Unless you know of a nearby store you can loot one of those from first!!!



What do you mean??

Don't they deliver??..


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## MrJim (Aug 30, 2014)

Twixie said:


> Bit like the Mark Duggan shooting over here..a well known drug dealer..sat in a taxi with a gun..when he saw armed cops..he threw the gun out of the window.
> 
> He was apparently one of the most violent criminals in Europe..
> 
> ...



We just had a violent, career thug with a 15 year rap sheet, shot & killed by the police day before yesterday here in Central Florida. When he answered his door with a gun in his hand, the cops told him to drop it. When he refused & raised it, they shot him.

Plain & simple. Don't point guns at or otherwise threaten cops.

Now his family are all screaming _"Our poor baby!!! They didn't have to kill him!!!"_

Here's their innocent little baby:


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## MrJim (Aug 30, 2014)

Twixie said:


> What do you mean??
> 
> Don't they deliver??..



Not for free!!!

You'll either have to pay the delivery charge either in cash or looted sneakers.

Maybe a small flat screen TV.


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## Twixie (Aug 30, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Not for free!!!
> 
> You'll either have to pay the delivery charge either in cash or looted sneakers.
> 
> Maybe a small flat screen TV.



I'll just wait for the garage sale then..don't have the race card on me at the moment..


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## Pappy (Aug 30, 2014)

Every once in a while, we have a free clean out the inside of your car day in our Florida community. Just leave your car out, unlocked,  at night, and in the morning your car will be cleaned out. Guaranteed.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 30, 2014)

This thread is now closed.



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> 
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