# US Patrol Boats Apprehended in Iranian Waters



## Warrigal (Jan 12, 2016)

A breaking story about two small US boats that apparently drifted into Iranian waters and the crews and boats are now in Iranian custody. The Iranians have announced that the crews will be returned promptly but have said nothing about the boats.

I've read various versions about what happened but none make a lot of sense. One suggested the boats had "mistakenly strayed" into Iranian waters.
http://www.ibtimes.com/iran-us-navy...itary-holds-10-american-sailors-irans-2262162

Another says that one of the boats had "mechanical trouble" and both boats had "run aground".
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/wor...fter-getting-into-trouble-in-the-persian-gulf

Neither the US nor Iran have signed/ratified an UN convention on "innocent passage".



> Based on the facts currently available, it appears that the question of whether the Iranians responded proportionately will depend on if the U.S. Navy vessels were operating in Iranian territorial waters in compliance with “innocent passage,” a legal designation under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) that Iran has signed but not ratified. Article 19 of UNCLOS outlines a range of activities that are permissible for military vessels in another state’s territorial waters. The United States, which has not signed the international convention, generally understands innocent passage rights in accordance with UNCLOS as a part of customary maritime law. (Indeed, readers at the _Diplomat_ following U.S. Navy actions in the South China Sea may remember the salience of the “innocent passage” issue there.) For the moment, based on available information, there is no reason to suspect that the U.S. Navy vessels were conducting activities inimical to Iran or contravening innocent passage or that Iran’s intent in detaining the sailors is inherently hostile.
> 
> http://thediplomat.com/2016/01/iranian-navy-holds-us-navy-sailors-in-the-persian-gulf/


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## WhatInThe (Jan 12, 2016)

It's probably cold war cat and mouse but then again it could be legit or maybe some snooping.

I'm leaning toward cold war let's see what they got/how they respond.

http://nysepost.com/navy-says-video-shows-iran-firing-rockets-near-us-carrier-97424

Iranian rocket fired near US aircraft carrier over the last 30 days.


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## Yaya (Jan 12, 2016)

I don't think this will amount to anything. There are bigger issues. 'Course the Pearl Harbor attack was instigated by a screw up.


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## Butterfly (Jan 12, 2016)

CBS News says they're letting them go at 2:00 AM.


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## Laurie (Jan 13, 2016)

Unlike them to do this while there's still some mileage in it.

There'll be a _quid quo pro _somewhere.

Keep your eye on the small print, America.  Something tucked away on the same page as a major story!


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## Ralphy1 (Jan 13, 2016)

Of course we weren't spying!  Such behavior is not in keeping with our character...


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## QuickSilver (Jan 13, 2016)

Well.. the Sailors and the boats have been released with Tehran confirming that one ships navigation system failed and the drifting into Iranian waters an accident..  Of course this is much to the Chagrin of the GOP candidates and Right wing talking heads..   I know they got a little shiver up their collective legs when this story broke.. hoping to use it to the BEST of their advantage.. and the wind has been unceremoniously pulled from their sails.   Not that it will stop them from trying to spin this to their liking.    I find it interesting that those who claim to be the TRUE Patriots and Americans would be hoping for a confrontation and international crisis to further their cause...    That said..  this type of diplomacy and cooperation from Iran would have been unthinkable in the past.  Kudos to our President and Secretary Kerry for their efforts.


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## Bluecheese50 (Jan 13, 2016)

The US shouldn't have been in Iranian waters. Anyway they have been released.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 13, 2016)

Bluecheese50 said:


> The US shouldn't have been in Iranian waters. Anyway they have been released.




You DO understand that the navigation system failed on one ship and the incursion was unintentional...  right?


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## Bluecheese50 (Jan 13, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> You DO understand that the navigation system failed on one ship and the incursion was unintentional...  right?



Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!


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## Ralphy1 (Jan 13, 2016)

Shades of the old Pueblo incident...


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## QuickSilver (Jan 13, 2016)

Bluecheese50 said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!



Well if you don't believe that nasty old lyin' USA...  Perhaps you will accept Iran's version..   

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...iled-into-its-waters/articleshow/50562296.cms

Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) said it had freed the sailors after determining they had entered Iranian territorial waters by mistake. The sailors had been detained aboard two US Navy patrol boats in the Gulf on Tuesday. 

 "Our technical investigations showed the two US Navy boats entered Iranian territorial waters inadvertently," the IRGC said in a statement carried by state television. "They were released in international waters after they apologized," it added.


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## Shalimar (Jan 13, 2016)

Sometimes there is no conspiracy.


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## Ralphy1 (Jan 13, 2016)

No, but there is wheeling and dealing going on on both sides.  Iran is torn between hardliners and moderates.  The incident was evidently caused by the military and may not have been known until later by other elements of the government...


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## QuickSilver (Jan 13, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Sometimes there is no conspiracy.



and I'm sure a whole lot of nonsense will be spewed by the right about the US apology...  So I ask... why should the USA never have to apologize?  Clearly we were in the wrong.. perhaps unavoidably.. but we shouldn't have been where we were..   For example.. if I accidently walked into my neighbor's house.. for whatever reason.. wouldn't an apology be in order?   This notion that we are weak  (read.. OBAMA is weak) for an apology is nonsense.


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## Ralphy1 (Jan 13, 2016)

Accidentally is the key word.  Our history is replete with accidents, and the best one was when Gary Powers was shot down and we were spinning the story of weather balloons straying off course...


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## Debby (Jan 13, 2016)

What a difference between the Iranians reactions here and that of Turkey who shot down the Russian jet and then killed one pilot while he was parachuting to safety for the sake of perhaps 17 seconds.   Maybe NATO should give the boot to Turkey and invite Iran in?  Which one appears to have integrity in these two instances?


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## Debby (Jan 13, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> and I'm sure a whole lot of nonsense will be spewed by the right about the US apology...  So I ask... why should the USA never have to apologize?  Clearly we were in the wrong.. perhaps unavoidably.. but we shouldn't have been where we were..   For example.. if I accidently walked into my neighbor's house.. for whatever reason.. wouldn't an apology be in order?   This notion that we are weak  (read.. OBAMA is weak) for an apology is nonsense.




I've always felt that it takes a big/strong man to apologize.


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## Shalimar (Jan 13, 2016)

I agree.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 14, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> and I'm sure a whole lot of nonsense will be spewed by the right about the US apology...  So I ask... why should the USA never have to apologize?  Clearly we were in the wrong.. perhaps unavoidably.. but we shouldn't have been where we were..   For example.. if I accidently walked into my neighbor's house.. for whatever reason.. wouldn't an apology be in order?   This notion that we are weak  (read.. OBAMA is weak) for an apology is nonsense.



I can't even believe the spin on this story by the media, Fox news, talk show hosts and politicians, scary to think any of those people have any power in this country, whether it be power of the press or of the government.  I hear lots of saber rattling, insulting Iran, exaggeration of the occurrences to serve their war hawk agendas.

As far as I know, those three boats were fully loaded with military and weapons, they were likely on an intelligence mission and got sloppy by drifting into Iranian waters.  They were held for a short period of time, fed and treated very well, then released with their weapons. How perfect is that scenario?

 We should be happy that they're still alive, and thank Iran for not taking further action against them.  It's standard protocol, even for the police in the US, to have someone kneel in a position where they can't attack, until they decide they are to be trusted to stand normally. 

 They fed them sitting on the ground, which is tradition in most of these places, the woman was given a head scarf to wear which is also nothing out of the ordinary.  Just look at some of our news women who report from these areas, many times we see the same.

What if three Iranian gunboats closed in on our shores, how do you thing we would handle it?  There are people itching to go to war over this, they still have sour grapes over the Iran deal and they'll do anything that pleases Israel, even if it means killing more of our troops to do it.  I understand that many big republicans were in favor of the deal, the oil companies and others saw the financial benefits of it, selfish reasons, but they supported the deal and we don't hear much on the news about that.

 I heard that someone on Fox news was actually wanting to punish the sailor for apologizing, calling him a traitor.  Why, so saying we're sorry we made a mistake?  It's a wonder anyone wants to serve this country anymore, for fear of being stabbed in the back by their own people. 

 As far as using this incident, which I hear happens fairly often by the way, as an added dig on our President is pathetic, they'll try and blame him for anything they can dream up....has everyone here gone mad??  No wonder these countries hate us, look how we respond when they do the right thing.

I admit I hadn't been really following this incident since the beginning on the news, but enough bits and pieces jump out at me every day on these sailors from various news sources, radio and TV.  What I'm hearing really makes me sick.


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## Laurie (Jan 14, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> You DO understand that the navigation system failed on one ship and the incursion was unintentional...  right?



Never let the facts interfere with a good old anti-US story!


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## Shalimar (Jan 14, 2016)

Regardless of the actual political beliefs involved, ie liberal or conservative, what scares me is the vituperative rage displayed by a certain portion of the extreme right. I realise, this in no way reflects the views of moderate republicans, in fact I believe it 

has less to do with politics, than a rabid desire to crush any and all people who do not conform to a narrow, Puritanical, paranoid view of the world, where only an anointed few have the correct vision of what constitutes a righteous society. It 

speaks to religious fanaticism, with politics merely a vehicle used to enforce a rigid elitist agenda, totally at odds with modern society, in fact, the destruction of democracy and human rights, that most Americans value above all things. Currently, the 

weapon used, rather efficiently, IMO, is fear.


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## WhatInThe (Jan 15, 2016)

They were treated as pows, seeeems ok as far pow treatment goes. But they were also used like pows for propaganda with the 'apology'. That being said this was probably a mission of some kind either to test Iranian response times and reaction or they were trying to sneak onto that Island. Just like the Iranians were testing weapon near a US aircraft carrier battle group a few weeks ago. 

Cold war cat and mouse.


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## Jackie22 (Jan 15, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Regardless of the actual political beliefs involved, ie liberal or conservative, what scares me is the vituperative rage displayed by a certain portion of the extreme right. I realise, this in no way reflects the views of moderate republicans, in fact I believe it
> 
> has less to do with politics, than a rabid desire to crush any and all people who do not conform to a narrow, Puritanical, paranoid view of the world, where only an anointed few have the correct vision of what constitutes a righteous society. It
> 
> ...



Very well said!


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## Manatee (Jan 15, 2016)

It may be 2050 before we hear the straight story.


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## Butterfly (Jan 16, 2016)

I don't see what's so terrible about saying we're sorry we accidentally bumbled into their territorial waters.  Doesn't seem to be any controversy, at least that I've seen, about whether or not they were in Iran's waters, so what's the problem with saying they're sorry?  Seems like a reasonable response to me.

Seems to me that certain politicians and media are trying to make hay out of this tempest in a teapot.


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## Laurie (Jan 16, 2016)

Manatee said:


> It may be 2050 before we hear the straight story.



This part of the world takes a long view.

More likely to be 3050.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 16, 2016)

Why must there always be "the real" story?   Sometime things ARE what they are said to be..


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## Laurie (Jan 16, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Why must there always be "the real" story?   Sometime things ARE what they are said to be..



That shows a very simplistic view if Persian (and I use the word deliberately) history and culture.

They were writing allegorical poetry while we were still grunting in our caves, and nothing in the Parthian Empire is EVER what it is said to be!

I repeat, you need to look long term, and just bas we still consider the views of Pitt the Younger,  so they consider the views of Xerxes.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 16, 2016)

What I am saying is that if you hear hoof beats....  you don't have to think "Zebra".....  most times its just horses....


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 16, 2016)

Butterfly said:


> I don't see what's so terrible about saying we're sorry we accidentally bumbled into their territorial waters.  Doesn't seem to be any controversy, at least that I've seen, about whether or not they were in Iran's waters, so what's the problem with saying they're sorry?  Seems like a reasonable response to me.
> 
> Seems to me that certain politicians and media are trying to make hay out of this tempest in a teapot.



:iagree:


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## Laurie (Jan 16, 2016)

"What I am saying is that if you hear hoof beats.... you don't have to think "Zebra"..... most times its just horses...."

Unless you're in the Serengeti.

You cannot consider these things in isolation from their context.


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## Warrigal (Jan 16, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> They were treated as pows, seeeems ok as far pow treatment goes. But they were also used like pows for propaganda with the 'apology'. That being said this was probably a mission of some kind either to test Iranian response times and reaction or they were trying to sneak onto that Island. Just like the Iranians were testing weapon near a US aircraft carrier battle group a few weeks ago.
> 
> Cold war cat and mouse.



Interesting slant on the events. 
I hadn't thought of the possibility of the US testing the Iranian response time. 
It is a dangerous way of gathering intelligence.


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## Shalimar (Jan 16, 2016)

Ultimately, knowingly or not, eventually we all dance to the beat of The Great Game. In this instance, who knows?


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## Warrigal (Jan 16, 2016)

With today's announcement that the US and EU have lifted sanctions against Iran, I doubt that the incursion into Iranian waters, running aground on an island where the Republican guard have a presence, was a planned strategic act. 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...us,-eu-after-nuclear-deal-cooperation/7093508


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## Laurie (Jan 17, 2016)

"I hadn't thought of the possibility of the US testing the Iranian response time. 
It is a dangerous way of gathering intelligence."

The Russians do it all the time.  We have fully armed fighters at two minutes readiness night and day.

Although this article is a tear old, it is still current.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11609783/Mapped-Just-how-many-incursions-into-Nato-airspace-has-Russian-military-made.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...an-40-times-to-intercept-Russian-bombers.html


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## Debby (Jan 17, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Interesting slant on the events.
> I hadn't thought of the possibility of the US testing the Iranian response time.
> It is a dangerous way of gathering intelligence.




But with willing taxpayers and citizens, soldiers and boats can be expendable I guess.


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## Debby (Jan 17, 2016)

deleted as per my last post.


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## Debby (Jan 17, 2016)

It seems like no matter how many times I tell myself that I'm just going to keep my mouth shut and not get involved, I continuously let myself get drawn back in and then I feel awful and guilty for doing it again.   So I'm going to try this again folks, starting with an apology to everyone here and I'm going to back away again.  (this reminds me of when I was trying to quit smoking.....over and over and over again).  Wish me luck this time please.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 17, 2016)

Debby said:


> It seems like no matter how many times I tell myself that I'm just going to keep my mouth shut and not get involved, I continuously let myself get drawn back in and then I feel awful and guilty for doing it again.   So I'm going to try this again folks, starting with an apology to everyone here and I'm going to back away again.  (this reminds me of when I was trying to quit smoking.....over and over and over again).  Wish me luck this time please.



Debby, no need to apologize or keep your mouth shut, that's just crazy!  Many of us like to read your posts and consider you a very knowledgeable person.  I'm open to hearing both sides of the story, and I think everyone should be, IMO.  I've learned a lot from you about what's really happening in the world, and your input often matches other alternative news sources that I've listened to over the years.  Nothing to feel guilty about my friend.


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## WhatInThe (Mar 18, 2016)

*Secretary of Defense Calls Iran's Actions Outrageous*

Defense Secretary Ash Carter called the detention of US sailors by Iran 'outrageous' and 'goes against' international law. Nothing that has been learned since justifies how Iran reacted or treated the sailors.

https://news.yahoo.com/carter-calls...yb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

Says it months after the fact but at least he's not mincing words now.


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