# Supply chain disruptions?



## chic (Oct 2, 2021)

Have you noticed empty store shelves anywhere near you with all the talk there has been of supply chain disruptions?

I did encounter some empty shelf space in the toilet paper / paper towel aisle of a local major chain grocery store yesterday and this was my first sighting of a shortage in over a year. 

No problems getting the car gassed up, and there is plenty of food in all the grocery stores so far.

How is it where you live? I'm curious if this is going to be a valid concern going forward or just a media driven panic to keep us half nuts all the time.


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## terry123 (Oct 2, 2021)

Have not been out but no problem having groceries delivered here.  So far my daughter has had no problem getting gas.  No problem with getting drugs delivered to the pharmacy where she works.


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## shedevil7953 (Oct 2, 2021)

I read a "news" email the other day that's predicting a global transportation crisis or strike.   I also have groceries delivered from a major chain and they've been out of several things for the past month due to transportation issues.


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## katlupe (Oct 2, 2021)

At Walmart and Aldi's yesterday and both seemed to be stocked. I found everything on my list. At both stores, employees were stocking while I shopped. 

I read that the shortages were due to not enough truck drivers. Truck driving jobs are plentiful around here right now.


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## Ken N Tx (Oct 2, 2021)

Local 711 convince store had a display, near the cash register, stocked with hand sanitizer masks and 4 rolls of toilet paper!! I thought that was funny...


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## oldman (Oct 2, 2021)

Around here, Costco and BJ's are both limiting purchases on paper products. In the grocery store that I work for, we also have limits on paper goods. We also have shortages on some meat items and other grocery items as simple as pancake mix, ketchup, mustard and Oscar Meyer Lunchables. We are told that there aren't enough truck drivers to make the deliveries. Our driver that delivers the meats to our store, (I work in the meat department), is making anywhere from 8-10 deliveries a day. His normal day is about 4-5 deliveries a day. Big uptick in deliveries for him. We are the second largest grocery chain in the U.S. next to Walmart. 

https://www.aholddelhaize.com/


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 2, 2021)

I think that it’s a combination of fact and media hype.

In my area the stores have some pockets of empty space in the frozen food section and the paper product aisle.

The news is reporting container ships backed up off the California coast due to a shortage of truck drivers.

This supposedly translates into shortages for the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays.

The news of those shortages triggers a panic buying frenzy and suddenly the shortages become very real.

It may mean that we have what my grandparents called a mitten Christmas.


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## hollydolly (Oct 2, 2021)

Lots of shortages here , Fuel ( well not specifically fuel).. delivery drivers, which has caused half the countries fuel stations to close and panic buying of fuel here for the last week or more.. and many people unable to get to work due to the lack of fuel. The Govt are  bringing the army in as from Monday to deliver to all petrol  & Diesel stations

Lots of empty shelves in the supermarkets...and hardware & department  stores...again mainly down to the break in the supply chain..

This  snippet from the headlines in this mornings' paper...

_The fuel crisis is getting worse in London and the south east, an industry expert warned today, as retailers demand urgent action to restock filling stations.

Soldiers will start delivering petrol from Monday in a drastic bid to end the chaos of recent days, with nearly 200 military drivers being deployed to the worst-hit areas.

While ministers insist the situation is 'stabilising', industry bosses remain concerned, and have called for neighbourhood retail stations to be quickly replenished to give customers 'confidence', amid warnings that motorists should expect to pay 3p more at the pump, with claims that one garage in west London is charging as much as* £2.68* per* litre.*

The disruption is part of an ongoing 'EFFing crisis' - made up of energy chaos, fuel shortages and empty food shelves, which is expected to last for months. _

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Monday-amid-warnings-3p-rise-fuel-costs.html


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## WheatenLover (Oct 2, 2021)

There were no frozen pie crusts at our grocery store yesterday. I hope my daughter looks in the dairy department for them -- I don't want to make a piecrust, but I do want too make a pie. Or maybe a quiche.


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## Don M. (Oct 2, 2021)

We haven't seen any major shortages in our area....just occasional items in the grocery store while they are waiting for a delivery.  I can't understand Why there is a shortage of truck drivers....they should have minimal concerns about this virus in their workplace.  Then, there is the huge backlog of container ships at our ports, waiting to be unloaded....Again, dock workers should Not be having issues with this virus.  

All these shortages and backlogs are going to do is drive prices and inflation higher, and put a dent into the budgets of those living on a fixed income.


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## JustBonee (Oct 2, 2021)

Don M. said:


> We haven't seen any major shortages in our area....just occasional items in the grocery store while they are waiting for a delivery.  I can't understand Why there is a shortage of truck drivers....they should have minimal concerns about this virus in their workplace.  Then, there is the huge backlog of container ships at our ports, waiting to be unloaded....Again, dock workers should Not be having issues with this virus.
> 
> All these shortages and backlogs are going to do is drive prices and inflation higher, and put a dent into the budgets of those living on a fixed income.



Seeing  images of all those   cargo ships on the Evening News,   sitting in the Pacific Ocean,    is troubling  ...  

.....


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## chic (Oct 2, 2021)

Update : at the health food store the entire frozen food aisle was nearly depleted! First time since early in the pandemic. I stocked up with what they had, as much as possible, and bought a lot of fresh produce too which in sections, is becoming more sparse but not as bad as frozen food. I guess we'll see how this goes in coming weeks but I will stock up as much as space and my finances allow because I remember how bad things were from April - June 2020 and I never want to go through that again.


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## fmdog44 (Oct 2, 2021)

I just saw this morning the chip shortages are so severe the automakers are stating "shortages" is no longer applicable rather this is the new norm. Also, the average family owned business will take 3-5 years to recoup their losses. The mail system will take 5 days longer for normal mail and cost more. Imagine how terrible things would be had the vaccine never been created.


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## Happyflowerlady (Oct 2, 2021)

Bonnie said:


> Seeing  images of all those   cargo ships on the Evening News,   sitting in the Pacific Ocean,    is troubling  ...
> 
> .....



So far, our stores here in northern Alabama do not seem to have empty shelves.  Of course, fuel has more than doubled in price this year; but so far we have not had a lack of delivery trucks either. I have been adding more storable foods to our supply each time that I get groceries.  We don’t have enough for an economy collapse, but at least it will help during shortages, and since it is storable foods, they will keep until we use them. 

Here is a map that shows all of the hundreds of cargo ships all around every United States port, all waiting to be unloaded. Obviously, if the cargo ships were being allowed to unload, then we would have probably overstocked shelves instead of facing shortages.


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## JustBonee (Oct 2, 2021)

Happyflowerlady said:


> So far, our stores here in northern Alabama do not seem to have empty shelves.  Of course, fuel has more than doubled in price this year; but so far we have not had a lack of delivery trucks either. I have been adding more storable foods to our supply each time that I get groceries.  We don’t have enough for an economy collapse, but at least it will help during shortages, and since it is storable foods, they will keep until we use them.
> 
> Here is a map that shows all of the hundreds of cargo ships all around every United States port, all waiting to be unloaded. Obviously, if the cargo ships were being allowed to unload, then we would have probably overstocked shelves instead of facing shortages.
> 
> View attachment 186959



Amazing image!    -   It's  almost surprising now when packages do arrive.


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## OneEyedDiva (Oct 2, 2021)

I don't think it's media drive to cause panic. One of the issues is that massive amounts of cargo ships stuck in ports in L.A. N.Y. and N.J. causing major delays in the delivery of goods. Another problem is there has been a manufacturing slowdown in part due to a loss of workers.
https://news.yahoo.com/tens-thousan...vKNcUpvrll1eK_Hdmo5bbALo9Xx5wD5AUCy7d9N4Vcq3_
There are no empty shelves at my local supermarket and last time I went to Costco a couple of weeks ago, they had plenty of water, TP and no empty shelves. I've advised my son to get what he will need of the basics early this week and go back for me toward the end of the week. I told him this because he would only be able to get one bundle of TP and paper towels at a time.


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## Marie5656 (Oct 2, 2021)

*During my last couple of visits to the grocery store, I have noticed a lot of empty spaces in the frozen food aisles. No specific foods, just in general*


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## AnnieA (Oct 2, 2021)

Lots of empty shelves in CVS a few days ago, especially in the over the counter meds section.  It looked like they only had about two thirds stocked if that.  Gaps at grocery store over the counter med sections as well.  I've been looking for one OTC product for weeks with no luck.


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## Purwell (Oct 2, 2021)

Interesting that you have problems with supplies as well as the UK, seems there is more to this than meets the eye.


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## DaveA (Oct 2, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> There were no frozen pie crusts at our grocery store yesterday. I hope my daughter looks in the dairy department for them -- I don't want to make a piecrust, but I do want too make a pie. Or maybe a quiche.


A shortage of pie crusts ???  That's a cause for serious concern IMHO.


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## AnnieA (Oct 2, 2021)

Article from today's Guardian:

‘A perfect storm’: supply chain crisis could blow world economy off course

,


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## AnnieA (Oct 2, 2021)

DaveA said:


> A shortage of pie crusts ???  That's a cause for serious concern IMHO.



It is, though.  We're not near Thanksgiving or Christmas so it's another indicator of the supply chain problem.  ....Speaking of the holidays, I'm starting to stock up on our traditional favorites now while they are still available.


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## Jules (Oct 2, 2021)

Back in the early 2000’s there was a push for the 100 Mile Purchasing Theory.  i.e. Buy your goods, especially food, from within 100 miles of you.  Too bad it never really caught on.  In the summer this isn’t hard, I shop at the Farmers Markets.  When I couldn’t make it this week, the apples & pears that I looked at in the grocery store were all from out-of-country.  They grow them right here.


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## hollydolly (Oct 2, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> It is, though.  We're not near Thanksgiving or Christmas so it's another indicator of the supply chain problem.  ....Speaking of the holidays, I'm starting to stock up on our traditional favorites now while they are still available.


We're being warned now,  that traditional Holiday stocks will be low if not unavailable completely this year.....foods mainly, but also including Christmas toys, and the public are being urged to stock up now... 

of course people will panic and if there wasn't already a shortage ..and currently there is... then there definitely will be soon...


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## Jules (Oct 2, 2021)

They’re promoting this ‘Shop Now for Christmas’ here too.  Will returns be permitted 3 months after purchase?  Too much hype.


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## AnnieA (Oct 2, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> We're being warned now,  that traditional Holiday stocks will be low if not unavailable completely this year.....foods mainly, but also including Christmas toys, and the public are being urged to stock up now...
> 
> of course people will panic and if there wasn't already a shortage ..and currently there is... then there definitely will be soon...



I haven't seen the warnings here, but figure we'll be in a similar situation to you guys as the holidays approach.  To keep myself from dipping into holiday treats early, I've got big labels on them to save for Thanksgiving and Christmas.


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## hollydolly (Oct 2, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> I haven't seen the warnings here, but figure we'll be in a similar situation to you guys as the holidays approach.  To keep myself from dipping into holiday treats early, I've got big labels on them to save for Thanksgiving and Christmas.


that wouldn't work in my house, I'd be dipping into it...label or no label..

I won't be having company at Christmas, just my DD I expect  so I don't have to worry about having any specific Holiday treats in per se... but because food is going to be generally scarce, especially meat.. I've ensured my freezers are full... and perhaps I should start on buying more TP...just in case...


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## chic (Oct 3, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> We're being warned now,  that traditional Holiday stocks will be low if not unavailable completely this year.....foods mainly, but also including Christmas toys, and the public are being urged to stock up now...
> 
> of course people will panic and if there wasn't already a shortage ..and currently there is... then there definitely will be soon...


Coffee! For those who drink it, and shoes are going to be scarce. Also toys and household items and this could continue til next spring so do what you have to. There is still pie crust mix in some stores but it is scarce in others. I also noticed at the drugstore my hair color was out of stock and my mascara too so I just bought substitutes. It is becoming real though.


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## hollydolly (Oct 3, 2021)

chic said:


> Coffee! For those who drink it, and shoes are going to be scarce. Also toys and household items and this could continue til next spring so do what you have to. There is still pie crust mix in some stores but it is scarce in others. I also noticed at the drugstore my hair color was out of stock and my mascara too so I just bought substitutes. It is becoming real though.


I have a stock of coffee.. which will last for some months, as I barely drink it.. although coffee hasn't been mentioned as a potential shortage here..yet... . Toys have , as has traditional holiday Fayre.....but I don't have any children to buy toys for, and as I said before I won't be having anyone here at the festive season , so my freezers and pantry should see me through until January.. just with some more added meat.

Last year during Covid, our shelves were absolutely stripped of basic foods, pasta, sugar, flour etc.. so now I've madesure I have those staples in the pantry..., and because they're saying Meat will be in short supply, and will also increasein price dramtaically, I'm making more of a point of making recipes, and meals from the meat I buy and freezing.. ...instead of just using it for one or 2 meals 

Watch out for shortages of OTC meds...


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## cdestroyer (Oct 3, 2021)

weuns up hereya in the rockies aint worried bout no food shortage, weuns just go out in the woods and shoot the food,


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## chic (Oct 3, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I have a stock of coffee.. which will last for some months, as I barely drink it.. although coffee hasn't been mentioned as a potential shortage here..yet... . Toys have , as has traditional holiday Fayre.....but I don't have any children to buy toys for, and as I said before I won't be having anyone here at the festive season , so my freezers and pantry should see me through until January.. just with some more added meat.
> 
> Last year during Covid, our shelves were absolutely stripped of basic foods, pasta, sugar, flour etc.. so now I've madesure I have those staples in the pantry..., and because they're saying Meat will be in short supply, and will also increasein price dramtaically, I'm making more of a point of making recipes, and meals from the meat I buy and freezing.. ...instead of just using it for one or 2 meals
> 
> Watch out for shortages of OTC meds...


 Thanks I will. Meat has gone up in price here but we still have it so far. I don't drink coffee but do drink tea and so far, there is plenty.


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## chic (Oct 3, 2021)

cdestroyer said:


> weuns up hereya in the rockies aint worried bout no food shortage, weuns just go out in the woods and shoot the food,


Times like this show us the advantage of that.


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## Mike (Oct 3, 2021)

I received a letter from the Government asking me to
consider returning to truck driving, the following day
I received a renewal form to reapply, they might even
fast track any application I am thinking.

During the 1970s I did drive trucks for a few years in
order to visit many European countries and get paid
to do so, instead of paying to go there.

As much as I would like a basic salary of £54,000 basic
per annum, I will have to reject their request as I was
80 years old in August, they didn't notice that fact I fear.

Mike.


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## Jules (Oct 3, 2021)

You’d wonder about a shortage of coffee when you see the prices.


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## Irwin (Oct 3, 2021)

The produce section of my local KingSoopers has been out of plastic bags for like two weeks now.  WTF?


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## Fyrefox (Oct 4, 2021)

Supply chain shortages are in evidence here in the eastern U.S., and are seen in spot shortages for items as mundane as saltine crackers. Paper products are again being rationed and limited in amount that can be purchased at one time.  Most shelves and coolers have empty pockets, with frozen foods especially hard hit.  Prices are noticeably up as well…


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## cdestroyer (Oct 4, 2021)

here is a list of survival items some are also listed for barter usage, ya never know..


barter foods 
   Canned goods: Vegetables, fruits, and meats
    Beans: These are relatively cheap and are a great long-lasting item to store.
    Rice: You want to go with white rice because brown rice goes rancid after six months.
    Flour and baking goods like cornstarch, baking soda, baking powder, etc..
    Sugar, Honey, and Spices
    Cooking oils
    Powdered milk and powdered
    Popular Snacks and Candy: 
    COFFEE!!!!


Non-Food Barter Items

    Toiletries: Toilet paper, toothpaste, soaps, and hygiene products.
    Batteries: I would stockpile batteries like crazy, especially rechargeable, AA and AAA varieties.
    Lighters and Matches: I would also add things like candles, camp stoves, and oil lamps to this category.
    Fuels: Propane, butane, and other long lasting fuel.
    Flashlights: When the grid goes down this is a no-brainier.
    Leisure: Playing cards, dice, books and board games.
    DIY Duct Tape and WD-40: I would also add items like JB weld, glues and adhesives, and other DIY construction and home/vehicle repair tools.

    Salt
    Sugar – Brown or White
    Raw Honey
    Alcohol – Whiskey, Vodka, etc…

Base cooking ingredients with a long shelf life:

The following categories of food make up the foundation of most recipes and are all things that store well.

Hard Grains: Stored properly hard grains have a shelf life of around 10 – 12 years.

    Buckwheat
    Dry Corn
    Kamut
    Hard Red Wheat
    Soft White Wheat
    Millet
    Durum wheat
    Spelt

Soft grains: These soft grains will last around 8 years at 70 degrees, sealed without oxygen.

    Barley,
    Oat Groats,
    Quinoa
    Rye

Beans: Sealed and kept away from oxygen the following beans can last for around 8 – 10 years.

    Pinto Beans
    Kidney Beans
    Lentils
    Lima Beans
    Adzuki Beans
    Garbanzo Beans
    Mung Beans
    Black Turtle Beans
    Blackeye Beans

Flours and Mixes and Pastas: 5 – 8 years

    All Purpose Flour
    White Flour
    Whole Wheat Flour
    Cornmeal
    Pasta
    White Rice ( up to 10 years)

Oils:

    Coconut oil – Coconut oil has one of the longest shelf lives of any kind of oil. It can last for over 2 years and is a great item to add to your survival food supply list.

Survival Foods that are great during short-term disasters:

The following items are great for short-term emergencies, and will stay fresh for a long period of time. During most disasters, you’re going to want to have food that requires very little cooking, or can be eaten without any preparation at all. Make sure some of your stockpile includes these types of food.

Other good survival foods: 2 – 5 years of shelf life

    Canned Tuna
    Canned Meats
    Canned Vegetables & Fruits
    Peanut Butter
    Coffee
    Tea
    Ramen Noodles – not the greatest food in the world but they are very cheap so they made the survival food list.
    Hard Candy
    Powdered milk
    Dried herbs and spices

Items that can be used for more than cooking:

    Apple Cider Vinegar – Cleaning, cooking and has antibiotic properties
    Baking Soda – Cleaning, cooking, etc…
    Honey – Mentioned again for its antibiotic properties and wound healing.

Nonfood items to stock up on at the grocery store:

    Bic Lighters
    Toilet Paper
    Soaps
    Bottled Water
    Vitamins
    Medicines
    Bandages
    Peroxide
    Lighter fluid
    Canning Supplies


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## chic (Oct 4, 2021)

Fyrefox said:


> Supply chain shortages are in evidence here in the eastern U.S., and are seen in spot shortages for items as mundane as saltine crackers. Paper products are again being rationed and limited in amount that can be purchased at one time.  Most shelves and coolers have empty pockets, with frozen foods especially hard hit.  Prices are noticeably up as well…


Yes, this is what I saw last week also. It's going to make holiday celebrations more difficult and expensive too just when we need it not to be. I loaded up on frozen food and will continue to do so even though it's stuff I don't usually eat. I'll improvise.


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## Don M. (Oct 4, 2021)

Now, with the holiday season approaching, stores are even predicting shortages of children's Christmas toys....as most of them are made in China.  Between disruptions in Chinese manufacturing, and shipping problems, the toy shelves will probably be bare in coming weeks.  I suspect we'll be giving our little ones some gift cards that they can use later on.


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## chic (Oct 4, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Now, with the holiday season approaching, stores are even predicting shortages of children's Christmas toys....as most of them are made in China.  Between disruptions in Chinese manufacturing, and shipping problems, the toy shelves will probably be bare in coming weeks.  I suspect we'll be giving our little ones some gift cards that they can use later on.


I heard the same thing. BF's grandkids are old enough for electronics but those will probably be effected too?


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## mrstime (Oct 4, 2021)

Well Walmart here has plenty of empty shelves, but that is just the norm for Walmart here. They have never been able to keep their own brand of things in stock. The latest shortage is their own brand of cola!


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## Jules (Oct 4, 2021)

Last year I set aside in a separate cupboard some supplies of things I thought we might need if we became ill.  Things like juices, bland cookies, power drinks, etc.   Remembered them this weekend and they were all expired so had to be tossed.  There weren’t a lot but it still felt wasteful.  I intend to limit my stored goods.

I also have extra beans and rice in a cool spot and will keep these.  

Sometimes fear of shortages greatly contributes to the actual shortages.


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## Chris21E (Oct 4, 2021)

A few items are picked over and stores limiting what you can buy. I have what I need for now...


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## chic (Oct 4, 2021)

Jules said:


> Last year I set aside in a separate cupboard some supplies of things I thought we might need if we became ill.  Things like juices, bland cookies, power drinks, etc.   Remembered them this weekend and they were all expired so had to be tossed.  There weren’t a lot but it still felt wasteful.  I intend to limit my stored goods.
> 
> I also have extra beans and rice in a cool spot and will keep these.
> 
> Sometimes fear of shortages greatly contributes to the actual shortages.


Maybe but I remember April 2020 so well when I could barely find decent food and no household cleaners at all! Won't happen again.


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## oldpop (Oct 4, 2021)

So far no issues here. Knock on wood...
As far as kids toys. I have watched my grandson have toys all around and then go pick up a stick and a pine cone and have a blast.


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## fuzzybuddy (Oct 4, 2021)

I don't know enough about the  Brit situation, but it seems they don't have  enough truck drivers. Do you Brits think it's Brexit coming home to roost?


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## chic (Oct 4, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I don't know enough about the  Brit situation, but it seems they don't have  enough truck drivers. Do you Brits think it's Brexit coming home to roost?


I've seen the same. Some lorry drivers have been attacked while in the layby ( excuse misspellings, I'm American ) and quit. last I heard was talk of getting military personnel to drive the trucks.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 4, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I don't think it's media drive to cause panic. One of the issues is that massive amounts of cargo ships stuck in ports in L.A. N.Y. and N.J. causing major delays in the delivery of goods. Another problem is there has been a manufacturing slowdown in part due to a loss of workers.
> https://news.yahoo.com/tens-thousan...vKNcUpvrll1eK_Hdmo5bbALo9Xx5wD5AUCy7d9N4Vcq3_
> There are no empty shelves at my local supermarket and last time I went to Costco a couple of weeks ago, they had plenty of water, TP and no empty shelves. I've advised my son to get what he will need of the basics early this week and go back for me toward the end of the week. I told him this because he would only be able to get one bundle of TP and paper towels at a time.


Agree, has nothing to do with the media.  There have been some problems with shortages since the beginning of the pandemic and will likely remain that way until people are vaccinated and more are back to work, etc.  Also the cargo ships don't help matters.  Stores in my area don't have as much of a variety of products, but the shelves are not empty.  I went to Costco recently and there was a one each limit on toilet paper and paper towels, but I didn't need any and their prices for those things were no bargain.


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## Lawrence00 (Oct 4, 2021)

chic said:


> Update : at the health food store the entire frozen food aisle was nearly depleted! First time since early in the pandemic. I stocked up with what they had, as much as possible, and bought a lot of fresh produce too which in sections, is becoming more sparse but not as bad as frozen food. I guess we'll see how this goes in coming weeks but I will stock up as much as space and my finances allow because I remember how bad things were from April - June 2020 and I never want to go through that again.


My menu is rather strict and repetitive these days and it makes it easier to buy in bulk and have "months" supplies of food. Powdered whey protein, crushed black walnuts, almonds, sunflower seeds, and super greens powder. Have recently added dry wine and cheese. The cheese is the only thing that could expire in a few months.


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## Lawrence00 (Oct 4, 2021)

Oh, and coffee was on sale at Walmart, I still have a few large cans to work through.


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## J-Kat (Oct 4, 2021)

Went to Aldi this afternoon and there were lots of empty spaces.  First time I could not find everything on my list.  I had been told their truck comes on Tuesday evening so maybe I'll go back later in the week.


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## oldman (Oct 5, 2021)

This morning at the grocery store where I work, I was invited to listen in on a conference call from a rep that works for four of our manufacturers where we get our food. Bob Evans, Oscar Meyer, Hillshire Farms and Jimmy Dean. According to what she was telling us the reason that we are not having our orders filled was because the manufacturers cannot obtain their packaging needs. The packaging companies that supply the packaging for these companies is saying that the reason they cannot produce the needed packaging is because they cannot access the necessary raw materials. OK, that makes sense.


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## debodun (Oct 5, 2021)

Family Dollar and Dollar General have had major shelf emptiness for months. The grocery stores aren't far behind. One disadvantage of living in the "boonies" - store delivery is concentrated on getting to the major population hubs. Then if they have anything left, they progress to further destinations.


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## RobinWren (Oct 5, 2021)

Walmart shelves are quite consistently short on certain items, I am looking for a certain item at dollarama, they have not had it in for months, I am told supplies are not getting through. Groceries are edging up but they were always higher than the mainland, probably because they have to be ferried across.


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## Remy (Oct 5, 2021)

Everything seems OK in my area. Even in earlier 2020 when people were lining up at grocery stores, hoarding including toilet paper, I never went without.


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## oldpop (Oct 5, 2021)

It seems things around here are beginning to get scarce.


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## AnnieA (Oct 5, 2021)

chic said:


> I heard the same thing. BF's grandkids are old enough for electronics but those will probably be effected too?



Yes.  We're Christmas shopping now.  It'll feel great to have it over with regardless of the reason.  I've finished up this early a few times and it's wonderful to relax and focus on creative wrapping and cooking.


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## Judycat (Oct 5, 2021)

Here we go with the canned cat food again. Shelves at our local Wal Mart, completely empty.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Oct 5, 2021)

katlupe said:


> At Walmart and Aldi's yesterday and both seemed to be stocked. I found everything on my list. At both stores, employees were stocking while I shopped.
> 
> I read that the shortages were due to not enough truck drivers. Truck driving jobs are plentiful around here right now.


I buy few groceries at a time to prevent spoilage. And I personally shop very often (Have never used delivery/pickup). Kroger, Walmart, Sprouts, Target and Aldi are all fully stocked. I haven't had to use a substitute for anything on my lists.


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## chic (Oct 5, 2021)

Judycat said:


> Here we go with the canned cat food again. Shelves at our local Wal Mart, completely empty.


Seriously @Judycat?


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## Judycat (Oct 5, 2021)

chic said:


> Seriously @Judycat?


Yes. It is disturbing to see.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 5, 2021)

Walmart was out of several brands of dry dog food. Completely out of Alpo in any size and its what my dogs like. I did get one 13 pound bag of Gravy Train. They were out of several things I normally order but was able to substitute with other brands, higher priced of course.


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## Lawrence00 (Oct 5, 2021)

I wouldn't know what to feed cats, besides mice, and fish,  but you can cook for the dogs, rice, some type of protein, sneak in some vegetables, and even their medications ... it will be consumed in seconds.


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## fmdog44 (Oct 5, 2021)

Look at this knowing it is not going to get better until 2022 say the experts
Record shattered: 73 container ships stuck waiting off California (freightwaves.com)


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## Becky1951 (Oct 5, 2021)

Lawrence00 said:


> I wouldn't know what to feed cats, besides mice, and fish,  but you can cook for the dogs, rice, some type of protein, sneak in some vegetables, and even their medications ... it will be consumed in seconds.


Mine get carrots or green beans daily, just a small amount as a dietary supplement, no salt, and because they both are spoiled rotten. They always get a bit of left over boneless chicken, beef roast and lamb. But who can afford lamb now?    Or roasts even!


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## Murrmurr (Oct 5, 2021)

Why it's happening and what to expect:


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## chic (Oct 6, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Look at this knowing it is not going to get better until 2022 say the experts
> Record shattered: 73 container ships stuck waiting off California (freightwaves.com)


I heard this also. Next spring.


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## John cycling (Oct 6, 2021)

chic said:


> I heard this also. Next spring.


Just another few months and all will be normal... sounds familiar.


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## Tom 86 (Oct 6, 2021)

I do a lot of ordering from Sam's club about 15 miles from me.  usually get it in 3 days if it's in stock.  Well 2 weeks ago I ordered the extra-large super rolls of Charmin T.P. from Sam's they had it in stock they said.  I'm tracking my package now, it left Denver Co. last Wed.  Been down to Atlanta, & now back in Indiana but still 70 miles from me.  I got the Cascade dishwashing pods 2 days later.

  This is what you call a s-l-o-w delivery system.


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## Della (Oct 6, 2021)

DaveA said:


> A shortage of pie crusts ???  That's a cause for serious concern IMHO.


You think that's bad? Yesterday my Ohio Kroger had_ no donuts._  None!  Not even those expensive Krispy Cremes.


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## debodun (Oct 6, 2021)

Went shopping at a store today I normally do not patronize, but I needed groceries and I was passing by. It's a well-know regional chain here in the northeast U.S.
*RECEIPT SHOCK!!*

I bought 2 boxes of cold cereal, a box of cheese crackers, two 2-liter botles of lemon-lime soda, a bag of salad mix, a bag of grapes and 2 boxes of tea, a 2 pound bag of yellow potatoes, a jar of pickles and a few bags of microwave-in-a-bag rice. Came to just over $50.


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## Buckeye (Oct 6, 2021)

The local Walmart is 95% out of spray paint.  Local Lowe's seems to have plenty.


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## win231 (Oct 6, 2021)

The only shortage here in CA is ammo.
Luckily, I already have plenty - plus I make my own.


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## chic (Oct 6, 2021)

The health food store is still out of most frozen foods as of this morning. They have spinach and cruciferous veggies which no one really wants right now but when things get really bad, those will be gone too. A lot of baked goods were out of stock, and a creme I use for bruises in the homeopathy section. Some sections of their fresh produce were depleted but a kid was stocking that up while I was there so that is good. 

I went to the shoe store to get boots which I have needed for almost 2 years but have been unable to get because of the pandemic and thank God I got a pair. They were well stocked at Famous Footwear even in my size which is very average, so I did okay. 

Will go to a regular grocery store tomorrow and get some trash bags and household cleaners and see what their frozen food section is like. If it's no good I'll try for canned.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 6, 2021)

John cycling said:


> Just another few months and all will be normal... sounds familiar.


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## Jules (Oct 6, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> The local Walmart is 95% out of spray paint.  Local Lowe's seems to have plenty.


Being cynical, Walmart is the cheapest place for ‘taggers’ to shop.  

@oldman, is it the plastic or cardboard part of the packaging that they’re have the shortages with.  If it’s the cardboard, Amazon, etc should be forced to pick up and recycle those monstrous boxes they use for shipping.


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## oldman (Oct 6, 2021)

Jules said:


> Being cynical, Walmart is the cheapest place for ‘taggers’ to shop.
> 
> @oldman, is it the plastic or cardboard part of the packaging that they’re have the shortages with.  If it’s the cardboard, Amazon, etc should be forced to pick up and recycle those monstrous boxes they use for shipping.


We are being told that it’s the raw material to manufacture all packaging materials. Ships in the harbors on the west coast cannot unload due to waiting on packaging materials and longshoremen to unload the ships. I am sure that there are other issues as well.


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## chic (Oct 7, 2021)

I went to Stop & Shop this morn. They had a much better selection of frozen food so I bought the biggest bag of frozen kernel corn I've ever purchased in my life. Paper products are sparse and people are loading up, as of yet. there are no limits that I saw. Lots of empty shelf space throughout the store. The pasta section was very depleted. I didn't buy very much, just stuff I needed like trash sacks for the leaves and some veggies. They are very short staffed which may be part of the problem and have help wanted signs all over the store.


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## StarSong (Oct 7, 2021)

This is not a manufactured crisis created by media hype.  Quite the contrary - it's the inevitable result of "just in time" orders and deliveries, underpaying and overworking truck drivers, and creating a global supply chain.  

As someone who owns a small business, I can tell you that some stock items I've been able (for more than ten years) to literally have delivered to me within 24 hours are now  months away.  This despite using vendors  throughout the country.  

I wrote this to some dear friends a few weeks ago.  Since then matters have worsened:

_My head has been spinning with regard to worldwide shipping problems.   One of my vendors put out information about the current global supply chain challenges yesterday which started me down this rabbit hole of learning as much as I can about it.  Other vendors have recently advised me of similar problems.  That they are even discussing their own sourcing problems with customers is unheard of.  

For one vendor alone, it's literally taking a minimum of 77 days (used to be 30) to get shipments from Asian factories to the US west coast - and that's assuming no extra glitches. The cascading problems include taking over a month to get the huge shipping containers to the factories to load the product for shipping (pre-pandemic: 1-2 days).

Problem is, these factories are merely that - factories. They're set up to produce and ship. Period. We're talking China, India, Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. Lean and mean operations. No warehouse space to house inventory, so the factories have to shut down if the container doesn't arrive because there's no place to stack more finished product - or raw materials.

So after this finally ships, the next shipment starts out 30 days behind plus the extra 47 days in shipping delays. Shipment after that becomes 107 days late. And so forth.

This doesn't even account for containers that never arrive, even though promised. Pre-pandemic it cost $1700 for this vendor to rent and transport a full size shipping container, including shipping it from Asian ports to the US west coast. Now? $12,000 - $18,000 per. You read that right.

The container companies are creating bidding wars, but even when a company wins the bid they may not get the container because someone else swoops in with graft and bribes. 

Factories are trying to arrange future container drop-offs but a lot of the container companies aren't interested... they know they can probably get more money for their containers in three months so why promise future deliveries?

There's very little competition because these days all shipping containers are manufactured in China. What are American and other western countries going to do - sue the container companies for price gouging and breach of contract? Good luck with that... Next thing you know your container will be "lost at sea."_

I'm not in the food industry, so can't comment on that. My advice - if you use a lot of frozen, packaged or processed foods, stock up. Meat, especially beef, appears poised to continue to rise in price. If you haven't looked into making and enjoying some meatless meals, now might be the time to investigate that. 

If you have a decent supply of flour, sugar, rice, beans, spices, nuts, canned/frozen fruit & veggies (including canned tomatoes) and some canned meat or fish, you can use those ingredients to make just about anything. 

It's going to be a sometimes bumpy ride with periodic shortages and price hikes, but I don't foresee widespread panic or starvation. Just some inconveniences.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Oct 9, 2021)

Our neighborhood supermarket had signs about shortages of two items ..Jello products that require refrigeration and Entenmann's products. But the Entenmann's shelf was fully stocked, albeit not with every product they sell, but enough of a variety. I've been stocking up on things that I had trouble finding last year due to the pandemic and suspect I'll have trouble finding again. I bought a gallon of Germ-X which is coming in handy due to the boil water advisory. But I intended to share some with my son who's on the road all the time, so also uses it a lot, but he bought his own gallon.

He picked up a bundle of paper towels for me and I had two rolls here already, so I'm good for 14 months. Costco was out of Kirkland TP again so I picked up a pack of 12 Paperbird TP (Shoprite brand) to add to the 30 bundle pack of Kirkland I have already. I also have 11 rolls of Scott that I stopped using last year as soon as I found other brands I liked and 4 rolls of Greem Heritage TP from last year that was distributed to we seniors along with our free meals. I had bought a box of Kirkland baby wipes, then they went on sale a couple of months later.  Since I believe Costco only has them on sale once a year, I bought two cases. My son also got a 4 box pack of alcohol swabs so in addition to the 2-1/2 they'll last several months. I have always ordered my skin care products to last a year, so have enough. I keep enough food and beverages in the house.


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## Don M. (Oct 9, 2021)

It's rare to go to our local grocery store, or a nearby Walmart, and Not see some empty shelves....the missing items seem to vary from week to week.  The Only store which seems to be fully stocked is our local Dollar General....every time I go by there, they have a truck unloading.


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## Butterfly (Oct 9, 2021)

Judycat said:


> Here we go with the canned cat food again. Shelves at our local Wal Mart, completely empty.


I have trouble getting canned cat food for my sister, too.  Dog food for Henry is readily available, but it sure is a problem finding food for her cat.


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## Butterfly (Oct 9, 2021)

chic said:


> Seriously @Judycat?



Pretty much true here, too.


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## chic (Oct 10, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Pretty much true here, too.


I saw some at the store the other day. I wonder if it's a regional problem at present?


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## StarSong (Oct 10, 2021)

chic said:


> I saw some at the store the other day. I wonder if it's a regional problem at present?


Based on what I'm hearing from friends with cats, it's an intermittent problem almost everywhere (in the US).


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 10, 2021)

This might not work for finicky cats but there are plenty of simple cat food recipes on the internet and YouTube.

https://www.hepper.com/homemade-cat-food/


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## hollydolly (Oct 10, 2021)

here we go again...empty shelves, no fuel.. panic buying, long queues at the supermarkets.. just what we need to have a Happy Christmas


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## hollydolly (Oct 10, 2021)




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## hollydolly (Oct 10, 2021)




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## chic (Oct 10, 2021)

hollydolly said:


>


It's not this bad here yet Hols, but I am vigilant that it might become so. They're telling people in America to grow victory gardens! It's October! What are those of us in cold climates supposed to do?


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## StarSong (Oct 10, 2021)

Oh, @hollydolly, I'm so sorry that your country is dealing with so many shortages. 

The family buying 240 rolls of TP either needs to take a serious look at their diet or STOP HOARDING!   

Prices are also rising in the US, noticeably so. Over the past year most groceries are up at least 10% by my (unscientific) reckoning. 
Gasoline has gone up dramatically - from about $3.00 to $4.25/gallon. Or more.


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## StarSong (Oct 10, 2021)

chic said:


> It's not this bad here yet Hols, but I am vigilant that it might become so. *They're telling people in America to grow victory gardens!* It's October! What are those of us in cold climates supposed to do?


I hadn't heard that... Yeesh!


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## chic (Oct 10, 2021)

StarSong said:


> I hadn't heard that... Yeesh!


Just heard it this morning. It's a good idea actually, but October is too late for planting and in my part of the country this info is useless.


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## Tom 86 (Oct 10, 2021)




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## Jules (Oct 10, 2021)

Some companies are being a little more sneaky - slightly higher price and slightly smaller package.


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## Jules (Oct 10, 2021)

@hollydolly It’s surprising that stores haven’t put a restriction on things like TP.


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## JustBonee (Oct 10, 2021)

Made a grocery store run yesterday and stocked up on many things.  Was almost surprised that I found everything that was on my shopping list!   
 ....  I did hear people around me complaining though,  about  missing items that they were looking for.


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## hollydolly (Oct 10, 2021)

Jules said:


> @hollydolly It’s surprising that stores haven’t put a restriction on things like TP.


well last year they did during the height of the lockdown, and if this panic buying goes on , I'm sure they'll restrict the sale again..and that will include lots of other things too ...


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## StarSong (Oct 10, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> View attachment 188470


Actually, it's more like requiring birth control every time you have intercourse so you don't need to have that baby shower.


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## hollydolly (Oct 10, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Oh, @hollydolly, I'm so sorry that your country is dealing with so many shortages.
> 
> The family buying 240 rolls of TP either needs to take a serious look at their diet or STOP HOARDING!
> 
> ...


the problem is that those buying those huge amounts of TP or anything, is not for their own use. It's to sell at vastly inflated prices if there's a shortage...( as they did last year).. some people were charging £20 for a pack of 4 TP..and people were paying it...


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## hollydolly (Oct 10, 2021)

chic said:


> Just heard it this morning. It's a good idea actually, but October is too late for planting and in my part of the country this info is useless.


..and what are people who live in homes with no gardens supposed to do..?.. how would they grow anything... ?


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## GeorgiaXplant (Oct 10, 2021)

I posted this on another thread:

I read online that Walmart, Target and some other big chains were chartering their own cargo ships and dock workers to unload their merchandise to their trucks with their own drivers. I wondered why all those ships are just sitting out there in the ocean...duh! because there's no one to unload them, no drivers for the trucks.


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## carouselsilver (Oct 10, 2021)

oldman said:


> Around here, Costco and BJ's are both limiting purchases on paper products. In the grocery store that I work for, we also have limits on paper goods. We also have shortages on some meat items and other grocery items as simple as pancake mix, ketchup, mustard and Oscar Meyer Lunchables. We are told that there aren't enough truck drivers to make the deliveries. Our driver that delivers the meats to our store, (I work in the meat department), is making anywhere from 8-10 deliveries a day. His normal day is about 4-5 deliveries a day. Big uptick in deliveries for him. We are the second largest grocery chain in the U.S. next to Walmart.
> 
> https://www.aholddelhaize.com/


Meat has gone way up, and TP and other paper products seem to disappear quickly. Once there was no cream in the three stores we visited. It does seem more like a truck delivery issue than a decreased supply. I hope!


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## GeorgiaXplant (Oct 10, 2021)

@carouselsilver You're mostly right. Imported goods can't get into the ports, and domestic products can't get delivered because there's a shortage of truck drivers.


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## Tish (Oct 10, 2021)

I am more worried about the supply of petrol over here, the prices keep going up and up.


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## hollydolly (Oct 10, 2021)

GeorgiaXplant said:


> @carouselsilver You're mostly right. Imported goods can't get into the ports, and domestic products can't get delivered because there's a shortage of truck drivers.


so why is it that you in the USA have a shortage of truck drivers ?..I ask because  we're told the reason for our food shortages is because we have a 'shortage of truck drivers'..due to Brexit, and most of the European drivers unable to transverse the new bureaucratic paperwork..

Now isn't this odd that we both have a shortage of truck drivers, and the USA didn't have Brexit... ?... hmmm....as the Bard himself famously wrote......Something is rotten in the state of Denmark


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## GeorgiaXplant (Oct 10, 2021)

I'm going to guess that our shortage is due to wages. I don't know that, just a guess. It's very hard to make a living as a trucker.


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## chic (Oct 10, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> so why is it that you in the USA have a shortage of truck drivers ?..I ask because  we're told the reason for our food shortages is because we have a 'shortage of truck drivers'..due to Brexit, and most of the European drivers unable to transverse the new bureaucratic paperwork..
> 
> Now isn't this odd that we both have a shortage of truck drivers, and the USA didn't have Brexit... ?... hmmm....as the Bard himself famously wrote......Something is rotten in the state of Denmark


Vaccine mandates and the pushback from them.


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## chic (Oct 10, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> ..and what are people who live in homes with no gardens supposed to do..?.. how would they grow anything... ?


Indoors, but it doesn't look practical. I don't know how this can work on a scale to feed a family and what about space and warmth and sunlight which are all in short supply as we approach winter. It's a great idea for us to feed ourselves but it's short notice for a big problem.


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## Don M. (Oct 10, 2021)

If meat prices continue to go ballistic, I may get my rifle out and go deer hunting this Fall, for the first time in years.  We've got so many deer in our woods that if the Winter becomes severe, several of them may starve.


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## Irwin (Oct 10, 2021)

Don M. said:


> If meat prices continue to go ballistic, I may get my rifle out and go deer hunting this Fall, for the first time in years.  We've got so many deer in our woods that if the Winter becomes severe, several of them may starve.


It's kind of a shame they can't be killed humanely and used for food when there's an overpopulation, or should I say aren't killed humanely since we have the capability to do so. They could be tranquilized and then brought in for slaughter or rounded up somehow. Animals suffer a great deal when they're shot by hunters.


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## Irwin (Oct 10, 2021)

Here's an article about why there's a driver shortage...

Is There Really A Truck Driver Shortage?​
Long-haul truckers commonly work extremely long hours, often 60 to 70 hours per week or more. And drivers are typically not paid by the hour. Instead, they are typically paid only for the number of miles they drive. The average truck driver gets paid 52.3 cents per mile, according to the Department of Transportation. Even if weather or traffic slows them down and extends their working day, they get paid the same. Moreover, they're not compensated for the significant time it takes to load or unload their trucks. And they're not compensated for their "off time," even though they're miles and miles away from home.
Being a long-haul trucker also means living out of your truck, because motels are pretty expensive and often don't have parking for big rigs. Meanwhile, finding parking to rest anywhere is a growing problem. Truckers sacrifice their health, sitting on their butt for hours and hours and eating junk food on the road. And the job is dangerous: Truck drivers are 10 times more likely to be killed on the job than the average worker.
But, Viscelli says, through political lobbying, legal activism and harsh business practices, big trucking companies have made a difficult job even harder, especially for entry-level truckers. He says the companies have been "systematically degrading trucker working conditions." Scholars have referred to trucks as "sweatshops on wheels." Viscelli says the industry is rife with minimum wage violations and what he calls "debt peonage." Basically, new drivers become indentured servants, going deep into debt to get training and to lease trucks from their employers).

While it's a stressful occupation, trucking doesn't have to be this bad. Spencer says companies that treat and pay their drivers better don't have nearly the same issues with retaining their workers.​https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/05/25/999784202/is-there-really-a-truck-driver-shortage​
So there you go. Increase the pay and that will eliminate the trucker shortage.


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## Butterfly (Oct 10, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Here's an article about why there's a driver shortage...
> 
> Is There Really A Truck Driver Shortage?​
> Long-haul truckers commonly work extremely long hours, often 60 to 70 hours per week or more. And drivers are typically not paid by the hour. Instead, they are typically paid only for the number of miles they drive. The average truck driver gets paid 52.3 cents per mile, according to the Department of Transportation. Even if weather or traffic slows them down and extends their working day, they get paid the same. Moreover, they're not compensated for the significant time it takes to load or unload their trucks. And they're not compensated for their "off time," even though they're miles and miles away from home.
> ...


Husband did long haul trucking briefly.  He said the biggest problem (and why he quit doing it) was that gov't regulations say a trucker can only drive so many hours before stopping so many hours for sleep, but the trucking company says have the shipment in Chicago by 9:00 AM Friday or else, and the trucker can't meet the deadline without breaking the regulations.  If you don't break the regulations you lose your job; if you break the regulations to get there on time and get caught at it you are in a heap of trouble with the feds and will probably lose your license.


----------



## Butterfly (Oct 10, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> This might not work for finicky cats but there are plenty of simple cat food recipes on the internet and YouTube.
> 
> https://www.hepper.com/homemade-cat-food/



My sister's cat simply will not eat anything but certain flavors and consistencies of Friskies.  Anything else gets ignored.  With dogs, they will eventually eat if they are hungry, but apparently that's not true for cats, or at least not for her cat.


----------



## Irwin (Oct 10, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Husband did long haul trucking briefly.  He said the biggest problem (and why he quit doing it) was that gov't regulations say a trucker can only drive so many hours before stopping so many hours for sleep, but the trucking company says have the shipment in Chicago by 9:00 AM Friday or else, and the trucker can't meet the deadline without breaking the regulations.  If you don't break the regulations you lose your job; if you break the regulations to get there on time and get caught at it you are in a heap of trouble with the feds and will probably lose your license.


Sounds like they need union representation or something.


----------



## Becky1951 (Oct 10, 2021)

Irwin said:


> It's kind of a shame they can't be killed humanely and used for food when there's an overpopulation, or should I say aren't killed humanely since we have the capability to do so. They could be tranquilized and then brought in for slaughter or rounded up somehow. Animals suffer a great deal when they're shot by hunters.



"They could be tranquilized and then brought in for slaughter or rounded up somehow. Animals suffer a great deal when they're shot by hunters."

Tranquilized animals cannot be slaughtered for human consumption, not safe.  Deer rounded up would hurt themselves in the process. 

An experienced hunter can shoot or bow hunt and kill a deer with first shot, no suffering.


----------



## Ken N Tx (Oct 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> If meat prices continue to go ballistic, I may get my rifle out and go deer hunting this Fall, for the first time in years.  We've got so many deer in our woods that if the Winter becomes severe, several of them may starve.





Irwin said:


> It's kind of a shame they can't be killed humanely and used for food when there's an overpopulation, or should I say aren't killed humanely since we have the capability to do so. They could be tranquilized and then brought in for slaughter or rounded up somehow. Animals suffer a great deal when they're shot by hunters.


Be prepared to butcher your kill yourself...Butchers are behind also..


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## Sunny (Oct 11, 2021)

And yet. anything I order from Amazon arrives at my door in a day or two.


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## StarSong (Oct 11, 2021)

GeorgiaXplant said:


> I'm going to guess that our shortage is due to wages. I don't know that, just a guess. It's very hard to make a living as a trucker.


Exactly.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 11, 2021)

chic said:


> Indoors, but it doesn't look practical. I don't know how this can work on a scale to feed a family and what about space and warmth and sunlight which are all in short supply as we approach winter. It's a great idea for us to feed ourselves but it's short notice for a big problem.
> View attachment 188590


I think, like Victory Gardens during WWII, the idea isn't to completely feed one's family with a garden.  If those who_ can do_ so will produce at least a little of their own food it will take some of the strain off the larger farmers. 

Agree that for the US, the timing of this request isn't perfect. Perhaps the intent was to give people a head's up for spring garden plans.


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## AnnieA (Oct 11, 2021)

chic said:


> It's not this bad here yet Hols, but I am vigilant that it might become so. They're telling people in America to grow victory gardens! It's October! What are those of us in cold climates supposed to do?



Oh, wow!  Hadn't seen that.  I bought stuff  last year for indoor gardening but didn't get it going ...grow lights, seed, liquid organic fertilizer, indoor specific soil.  Guess I'd better get figuring all that out!   It's super easy to grow lettuce  so will start with that first.  Cannot imagine life without salad!   Carrots are easy to grow indoors as well and will give a nice crunch to canned fruits like pineapple...have stocks of that.


----------



## AnnieA (Oct 11, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> the problem is that those buying those huge amounts of TP or anything, is not for their own use. It's to sell at vastly inflated prices if there's a shortage...( as they did last year).. some people were charging £20 for a pack of 4 TP..and people were paying it...



We had the same problem around here with Lysol disinfectant spray to the point that Dollar General employees were putting cases as they arrived at the supply dock in the garbage bins, then going out and retrieving them to take home at the end of their shift.


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## AnnieA (Oct 11, 2021)

Sunny said:


> And yet. anything I order from Amazon arrives at my door in a day or two.



I read that Amazon and large national chains are first priority for goods from wholesalers.  Makes sense.  Keep your best buying retailers happy.   I've seen shortages and marked up prices even on Amazon.  I used an aluminum free deodorant that I can only find there that was scarce for a while and doubled in price during that time.  Thankfully, they restocked and I bought a case.


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## chic (Oct 11, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Oh, wow!  Hadn't seen that.  I bought stuff  last year for indoor gardening but didn't get it going ...grow lights, seed, liquid organic fertilizer, indoor specific soil.  Guess I'd better get figuring all that out!   It's super easy to grow lettuce  so will start with that first.  Cannot imagine life without salad!   Carrots are easy to grow indoors as well and will give a nice crunch to canned fruits like pineapple...have stocks of that.


Yes, I guess we'll have to try growing our food indoors. Who'd have thought? I'm up for but it will be a challenge. Always more stuff to buy. I would miss my daily salads too much though to go without them. You're right about that.


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## chic (Oct 11, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> My sister's cat simply will not eat anything but certain flavors and consistencies of Friskies.  Anything else gets ignored.  With dogs, they will eventually eat if they are hungry, but apparently that's not true for cats, or at least not for her cat.


Even human food? I never had a cat that didn't love what me and my family were eating so we shared.


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## AnnieA (Oct 11, 2021)

chic said:


> Yes, I guess we'll have to try growing our food indoors. Who'd have thought? I'm up for but it will be a challenge. Always more stuff to buy. I would miss my daily salads too much though to go without them. You're right about that.



Lettuce supply is already a bit iffy locally.  What they are getting in often isn't staying fresh as long as it used to.

.


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## chic (Oct 11, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Lettuce supply is already a bit iffy locally.  What they are getting in often isn't staying fresh as long as it used to.


So far lettuce is in good supply where I live but there are sometimes shortages of cucumbers.  So far tomatoes are in good supply but if there is a food shortage, I might try to grow tomatoes inside.

I throw everything in a salad. Carrots, beets, cheese, slaw, whatever. Love em.  When or if I can't find lettuce I make a fresh pear salad topped with a spoonful of cottage cheese. It's very filling and very good. It helps to be flexible in this pandemic because you just never know what you will or will not find anymore.


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## funsearcher! (Oct 11, 2021)

Resourcefulness is the order of the day. Make do or do without. I believe that we have been spoiled for so long with all the bounty of choices in the stores and this is a wake up call not to take it for granted. Not a bad idea to keep the basics on hand and be creative.


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 11, 2021)

The notion of a Victory garden is interesting to contemplate.

In a time of shortages and delays I’m not sure where we would get the seeds and other trappings needed to plant a garden.

IMO this blip in the supply chain will be short lived.

It is annoying that some things are not easy to find but there is still an enormous amount of food in the local markets and the trucks are still rolling.


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## AnnieA (Oct 11, 2021)

chic said:


> So far lettuce is in good supply where I live but there are sometimes shortages of cucumbers.  So far tomatoes are in good supply but if there is a food shortage, I might try to grow tomatoes inside.
> 
> I throw everything in a salad. Carrots, beets, cheese, slaw, whatever. Love em.  When or if I can't find lettuce I make a fresh pear salad topped with a spoonful of cottage cheese. It's very filling and very good. It helps to be flexible in this pandemic because you just never know what you will or will not find anymore.



Some varieties of tomatoes grow well indoors.  Radishes do great if you like those.  A great resource for indoor gardening is Ginger Booth's Indoor Salad. It's worth buying the physical book since Kindle's formating for a book like this with lots of visuals isn't the best.

I've also got micro green seed which grow very quickly.  I love pineapple and canned chunks are good chilled ...adding fresh carrots and micro greens would be a good salad alternative.


----------



## Uptosnuff (Oct 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> It's rare to go to our local grocery store, or a nearby Walmart, and Not see some empty shelves....the missing items seem to vary from week to week.  The Only store which seems to be fully stocked is our local Dollar General....every time I go by there, they have a truck unloading.


In the small town I live by in central U.S., they are building an enormous Dollar General warehouse.  It is supposed to be completed in spring of 2022.  It will be interesting to see if they have problems filling it and shortages of truck drivers to haul things if they do fill it.


----------



## chic (Oct 11, 2021)

If I were in a position of authority, I would look into the possibility of areas of the country in the U.S. or warm weather climates in the EU growing and producing more food than they need for themselves while selling the surplus to states/countries in greater need. In the Northern hemisphere we are all on the precipice of cold weather but there are areas that remain warm enough to grow food throughout this cold season.

This is an extraordinary situation and calls for abstract thinking to solve the problem. It might be a good solution. I just wish someone else with the proper authority would implement it.


----------



## JustBonee (Oct 11, 2021)

chic said:


> If I were in a position of authority, I would look into the possibility of areas of the country in the U.S. or warm weather climates in the EU growing and producing more food than they need for themselves while selling the surplus to states/countries in greater need. In the Northern hemisphere we are all on the precipice of cold weather but there are areas that remain warm enough to grow food throughout this cold season.
> 
> This is an extraordinary situation and calls for abstract thinking to solve the problem. It might be a good solution. I just wish someone else with the proper authority would implement it.



What seems like common sense to us  will always get tangled up in the process  of trying to implement  any kind of action.  
That pretty much goes for everything  that comes up.   

Need some enterprising people of means who can take  the reins and do some good.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 11, 2021)

chic said:


> If I were in a position of authority, I would look into the possibility of areas of the country in the U.S. or warm weather climates in the EU growing and producing more food than they need for themselves while selling the surplus to states/countries in greater need. In the Northern hemisphere we are all on the precipice of cold weather but there are areas that remain warm enough to grow food throughout this cold season.
> 
> *This is an extraordinary situation and calls for abstract thinking to solve the problem. It might be a good solution. I just wish someone else with the proper authority would implement it.*


How many in the US or other countries will follow what an authority decides - or even proves - will be for the greater good of everyone?  People are terrorizing retail clerks and beating each other up on airplanes over mask mandates.  They're literally killing each other over vaccine disputes. 

 Can you just picture how folks would react to a directive - or even a suggestion - to start farming?  Or even to lend/sell/rent out their land for farming for the greater good?


----------



## Irwin (Oct 11, 2021)

StarSong said:


> How many in the US or other countries will follow what an authority decides - or even proves - will be for the greater good of everyone?  People are terrorizing retail clerks and beating each other up on airplanes over mask mandates.  They're literally killing each other over vaccine disputes.
> 
> Can you just picture how folks would react to a directive - or even a suggestion - to start farming?  Or even to lend/sell/rent out their land for farming for the greater good?


That's communism!


----------



## Uptosnuff (Oct 11, 2021)

Not too long ago belonging to a CSA (Community Supported Agriculture) or a food Coop was all the rage, getting your food from local producers.  What happened to that?  I still belong to the Nebraska Food Coop and might start ordering my food online from them again.  I quit ordering for a long time because orders were getting messed up.  Might be time to reassess that.  I can get beef, pork, chicken, produce and lot of other items from the coop.  They are a little pricier than the grocery stores, but most of the meat and produce is organically grown on pastures and tastes great.  I'm sure most states in the U.S. have something similar.  I think with a little common sense and effort, the supply issue shouldn't be that bad.

As long as I can buy the basic food items I need, meat, milk, eggs, bread, etc.  I will be fine.  I don't mind cooking.


----------



## Jules (Oct 11, 2021)

Our produce is expensive and limited in the winter.  It mostly comes from California and Mexico.  Lettuce and tomatoes aren’t worth buying.  For a salad I slice up cucumbers, onions and carrots and top with vinaigrette.  We can buy micro greens now.  In my back to the land years I sprouted seeds in a quart jar sitting on a sunny window ledge.  Coleslaw is a staple in the winter.  Autumn vegetables are reasonable.  In the summer I feast on the veggies from the Farmers Markets.  

We have lots of skiers shopping in the grocery stores here.  The most interesting is to watch their reaction to the quality and prices of avocados.  

Like @Uptosnuff as long as I have the basics, I’ll be fine.


----------



## chic (Oct 12, 2021)

Uptosnuff said:


> Not too long ago belonging to a CSA (Community Supported Agriculture) or a food Coop was all the rage, getting your food from local producers.  What happened to that?  I still belong to the Nebraska Food Coop and might start ordering my food online from them again.  I quit ordering for a long time because orders were getting messed up.  Might be time to reassess that.  I can get beef, pork, chicken, produce and lot of other items from the coop.  They are a little pricier than the grocery stores, but most of the meat and produce is organically grown on pastures and tastes great.  I'm sure most states in the U.S. have something similar.  I think with a little common sense and effort, the supply issue shouldn't be that bad.
> 
> As long as I can buy the basic food items I need, meat, milk, eggs, bread, etc.  I will be fine.  I don't mind cooking.


We still have local farmer's markets on a weekly basis during the season of course.


----------



## chic (Oct 12, 2021)

Irwin said:


> That's communism!  View attachment 188715


You're right. What was I thinking? We'll go on as we always do allowing the 1% to survive and thrive with their "let them eat cake" attitude and "the rules apply the rules apply to thee, not to me" while the poor and starving club each other to death over an apple core in the street.

Besides. it isn't communism for states to trade with each other. It's free enterprise.


----------



## oldman (Oct 12, 2021)

This morning during our weekly meeting at the grocery store, the manager told us that getting turkeys and hams this holiday season will be an adventure due to shortages of people to process the birds and pigs., not to mention packaging materials.  

He also said that due to the backup of ships not being unloaded due to a shortage of dock workers and longshoremen, along with a lack of packaging materials and truck drivers, the system is going to wind down even further and more shortages of most everything is expected.


----------



## chic (Oct 12, 2021)

The store was depleted of baked goods. Very little bread, pies and cakes. Looks grim.


----------



## oldman (Oct 12, 2021)

chic said:


> The store was depleted of baked goods. Very little bread, pies and cakes. Looks grim.


The store I work in is still able to get pastries. Many of them come in frozen and then thawed before putting them out for display and selling.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 12, 2021)

chic said:


> You're right. What was I thinking? We'll go on as we always do allowing the 1% to survive and thrive with their "let them eat cake" attitude and "the rules apply the rules apply to thee, not to me" while the poor and starving club each other to death over an apple core in the street.
> 
> Besides. it isn't communism for states to trade with each other. It's free enterprise.


Don't disagree with your thinking at all.  Just considering how it would spin out.


----------



## hollydolly (Oct 12, 2021)

Well, today on the way back from an appointment I stopped off at the supermarket in a different town... just thought I'd better top up a little bit  particularly with meat , dairy, and a few other bits given the photos of all the empty shelves pictures  in the media.. ..no problem..All shelves aside from the aisles with water, were fully stocked..

Dunno why people have bought so much water, our water is very good clean water to drink out of the tap so I dunno why people around here panic , and buy up so much water.. ...anyway..there was a little less variety of things in the freezer cabinets.. but overall everything was well stocked, but unfortunately more expensive...


----------



## StarSong (Oct 12, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Dunno why people have bought so much water,


I don't get that either.  If people are buying water for emergencies, why not buy it once and leave it?  As long the bottles aren't stored on a concrete floor they'll keep almost indefinitely.  If they wind up using some of the water, why not keep the containers and refill them when the emergency has passed?    

Glad you were able to get what you wanted, albeit at higher prices. That seems to be happening everywhere.


----------



## hollydolly (Oct 12, 2021)

StarSong said:


> I don't get that either.  If people are buying water for emergencies, why not buy it once and leave it?  As long the bottles aren't stored on a concrete floor they'll keep almost indefinitely. * If they wind up using some of the water, why not keep the containers and refill them when the emergency has passed?   *


Yes I have always thought the same thing, and certainly in the past when we've neded to buy water for any reason, then we've done exactly that...

 It's very odd that people tend not to do this, and you can see it happening every time there's any kind of panic buying, people are coming out with trolleys stacked hight with TP and water... .


----------



## Gemma (Oct 12, 2021)

Went to the store today...couldn't find TP, no light cream, no OJ, no lettuce.  The canned cat food shelves were completely empty!  No cat litter.  I also notice in the meat dept., no packaged lunch meats, no fresh fish either.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Oct 12, 2021)

StarSong said:


> I don't get that either.  If people are buying water for emergencies, why not buy it once and leave it?  As long the bottles aren't stored on a concrete floor they'll keep almost indefinitely.  If they wind up using some of the water, why not keep the containers and refill them when the emergency has passed?
> 
> Glad you were able to get what you wanted, albeit at higher prices. That seems to be happening everywhere.


Why does storing water on a concrete floor make a difference?


----------



## Becky1951 (Oct 12, 2021)

Just a thought about cat litter, sand can be used.


----------



## Irwin (Oct 12, 2021)

This video explains the shortages pretty well. We have an "on demand" economy, and when any cog in the machine gets jammed, the entire system fails.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 12, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Why does storing water on a concrete floor make a difference?


We were told to not store it directly on concrete by the LAFD emergency preparedness team.  Apparently concrete - or anything that had been spilled on concrete - can leach through plastic water bottles.  (Obviously in EQ country we wouldn't use glass containers for storing emergency supplies.)  

The FD advised strapping water on shelves or placing it on wooden pallets, so that's what we've always done.


----------



## Tom 86 (Oct 12, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "They could be tranquilized and then brought in for slaughter or rounded up somehow. Animals suffer a great deal when they're shot by hunters."
> 
> Tranquilized animals cannot be slaughtered for human consumption, not safe.  Deer rounded up would hurt themselves in the process.
> 
> An experienced hunter can shoot or bow hunt and kill a deer with first shot, no suffering.


Very true.
  Here in Indiana, they bring in sharpshooters with high-powered rifles with scopes to go into big Areas down south where the deer are overpopulated.  They can shoot a deer in the head, instant death & no harm to the body with an arrow or bullet ripping through it.

  Then they haul them out on special wagons behind ATVs so no bruising.  They are taken & processed then given to food pantries where they give them to people in need.


----------



## chic (Oct 12, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Well, today on the way back from an appointment I stopped off at the supermarket in a different town... just thought I'd better top up a little bit  particularly with meat , dairy, and a few other bits given the photos of all the empty shelves pictures  in the media.. ..no problem..All shelves aside from the aisles with water, were fully stocked..
> 
> Dunno why people have bought so much water, our water is very good clean water to drink out of the tap so I dunno why people around here panic , and buy up so much water.. ...anyway..there was a little less variety of things in the freezer cabinets.. but overall everything was well stocked, but unfortunately more expensive...


I'm glad you had some luck with that Holly. It's getting a little bit scary here how fast shelves are emptying. I stocked up on soap today, something I did not buy enough of during the start of the pandemic. But back then I was more concerned with food than household cleaners, soap, baking soda, vinegar, dishwashing liquid, bathroom cleaner etc. Not going to make that mistake again.


----------



## Tom 86 (Oct 12, 2021)

chic said:


> If I were in a position of authority, I would look into the possibility of areas of the country in the U.S. or warm weather climates in the EU growing and producing more food than they need for themselves while selling the surplus to states/countries in greater need. In the Northern hemisphere we are all on the precipice of cold weather but there are areas that remain warm enough to grow food throughout this cold season.
> 
> This is an extraordinary situation and calls for abstract thinking to solve the problem. It might be a good solution. I just wish someone else with the proper authority would implement it.


That's already in use here.  In the summer we have small farmers that plant & grow lots of vegetables then bring them to town to sell in a farmers market. (Good & fresh)  

  Then comes the cold weather with frozen ground.  So all our vegetables are now grown down south in the warmer States or California. The problem is the LONG trip from those states, so the produce is not real fresh & it's very expensive to ship it north.


----------



## chic (Oct 12, 2021)

Wanted to add, the drugstore was somewhat replenished with cosmetic items but some shelves are still bare. I did pick up a couple of things. The OTC section is still pretty good. At the health food store, I got vitamins in case the food shortage should become lengthy or serious. They still had a lot but I know that won't last. A couple of years ago it took them months to replenish their stock so it's better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## hollydolly (Oct 12, 2021)

chic said:


> I'm glad you had some luck with that Holly. It's getting a little bit scary here how fast shelves are emptying. I stocked up on soap today, something I did not buy enough of during the start of the pandemic. But back then I was more concerned with food than household cleaners, soap, baking soda, vinegar, dishwashing liquid, bathroom cleaner etc. Not going to make that mistake again.


I''ma bit of a hoarder when it comes to cleaning materials and household cleaners, soap and toothpaste, so when Covid hit last year and we really had nothing on our supermarket shelves and people would sell aKidney for a packet of toothpaste, I was fine, because I've always been someone who stocks up on those things so it wasn't hoarding per se, because I already had them ...


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## Tom 86 (Oct 12, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I''ma bit of a hoarder when it comes to cleaning materials and household cleaners, soap and toothpaste, so when Covid hit last year and we really had nothing on our supermarket shelves and people would sell aKidney for a packet of toothpaste, I was fine, because I've always been someone who stocks up on those things so it wasn't hoarding per se, because I already had them ...


You're like me. Not actually hoarding but I've been through several blizzards here so as winter is coming  I start to stock up on canned goods, dried milk, Bread in the freezer, same with meat.  I got this trait from my wife, & we ate well during the blizzards.

  I have a whole house backup power generator (Generac) that runs on L.P. so I have heat, water from a deep well, hot water. My LP tank is 1,000 gallons & if I hear a storm is coming I call my supplier & have them top me off.  That way I'm good for 1 to 2 months.

  I've seen our power lines go down & it's taken 3 weeks to get power back on.  I live in the country & a couple of times it took a month to get my road open using the biggest dozer made.  Because there are only 3 houses on this road.


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## fuzzybuddy (Oct 13, 2021)

From what i understand is that this is being caused by the UK's inability to process trade to and from the UK, which is then tying up ships, which can't unload. Then it's a chain reaction. The ships that were supposed to transport other cargo are not available. Goods keep piling up, in ships and docks, undelivered.


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## chic (Oct 13, 2021)

Today for the first time in two weeks, I got everything on my shopping list at Stop & Shop. There's still a lot of empty spaces but they continue to restock.


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## drifter (Oct 13, 2021)

It seems  everywhere you go there's shortage. And the prediction is it won't be over for a while.
maybe most of next year.


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## StarSong (Oct 14, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I''ma bit of a hoarder when it comes to cleaning materials and household cleaners, soap and toothpaste, so when Covid hit last year and we really had nothing on our supermarket shelves and people would sell aKidney for a packet of toothpaste, I was fine, because I've always been someone who stocks up on those things so it wasn't hoarding per se, because I already had them ...


After seeing this post, I checked my toothpaste inventory.  4 unopened tubes in the cabinet plus a couple in the RV.  Several months worth of floss, too. Plenty of cleaning supplies, TP, PT, tissues, and soap on hand.  Nothing to do with the pandemic though.  Like you, I just maintain a strong backup supply.


----------



## RadishRose (Oct 14, 2021)

Except for gallon sizes of white vinegar missing several weeks ago, things seem to be normal here.... so far.


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## JustBonee (Oct 14, 2021)

I found the local  Whole Foods Market to be  rationing out  canned pumpkin  - I wanted 2 cans,  they only allowed me one.  
Oh well.


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## Tom 86 (Oct 14, 2021)

I just stopped at our local butcher shop this morning.   Was I surprised as I needed 1 lb of ground round (less fat) for my tacos tonight?  What a surprise the Hamburg was $7.89 an lb.  My Ground round was $8.89 an lb.  I didn't even go look at the rest of the meat.

So since just me, I told the woman to only give me a 1/2 lb.  This is from a local butcher & he gets his beef, pork & chickens local.  NO shipping involved.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 14, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> I just stopped at our local butcher shop this morning.   Was I surprised as I needed 1 lb of ground round (less fat) for my tacos tonight?  What a surprise the Hamburg was $7.89 an lb.  My Ground round was $8.89 an lb.  I didn't even go look at the rest of the meat.
> 
> So since just me, I told the woman to only give me a 1/2 lb.  This is from a local butcher & he gets his beef, pork & chickens local.  NO shipping involved.


Yikes!  Makes me glad I stopped eating meat!!!


----------



## Tish (Oct 14, 2021)

So annoyed right now, as my country is coming out of lockdown the price of petrol is through the roof.
Mind you city to rural travel has not been approved yet.


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## StarSong (Oct 15, 2021)

Tish said:


> So annoyed right now, as my country is coming out of lockdown the price of petrol is through the roof.
> Mind you city to rural travel has not been approved yet.


Seems like this is happening everywhere - some places are getting hit sooner and harder than others.


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## hollydolly (Oct 15, 2021)

Tish said:


> So annoyed right now, as my country is coming out of lockdown the price of petrol is through the roof.
> Mind you city to rural travel has not been approved yet.


how much are you paying Tish...?.. for the cheapest supermarket unleaded we're paying £1.39 per litre...£6.95 a gallon which is equal to $12.88 Australian Dollars  per gallon... ... some places like BP petrol garages are charging over £1.40 per litre...  and a shell garage within 5 miles of here is charging £1.43 per litre ...we're almost at the highest prices for fuel we've ever paid...


----------



## Liberty (Oct 15, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> That's already in use here.  In the summer we have small farmers that plant & grow lots of vegetables then bring them to town to sell in a farmers market. (Good & fresh)
> 
> Then comes the cold weather with frozen ground.  So all our vegetables are now grown down south in the warmer States or California. The problem is the LONG trip from those states, so the produce is not real fresh & it's very expensive to ship it north.


They should do that more with the feral hogs that are tromping up all the ground, too.  Our neighbor makes hog sausage, think he's got a good night scope.


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## StarSong (Oct 15, 2021)

Liberty said:


> They should do that more with the feral hogs that are tromping up all the ground, too.  Our neighbor makes hog sausage, think he's got a good night scope.


Feral hogs can be quite dangerous, correct?


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 15, 2021)

chic said:


> I got everything on my shopping list at Stop & Shop. There's still a lot of empty spaces but they continue to restock.


Our Walmart has a few empty shelves
But, the main aisles are jammed with pallets of goods


----------



## Aunt Bea (Oct 15, 2021)

I was in the local Rite Aid the other day and the seasonal aisle had been cleared in anticipation of the Christmas items.


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## Happyflowerlady (Oct 15, 2021)

For several years, I have ordered from Augason Farms, which sells a lot of storable foods and survival type foods. All I have ever bought was the whey milk powder (Morning Moos) and the black bean burger mix, but they sell large cans of dried foods of almost every variety. 
Apparently, so many people have been stocking up on the dried foods now that Augason Foods is out of stock, and is closing for at least the next three months .  Since they are one of the largest suppliers of survival foods, this indicates some serious shortages to come, in my opinion. 
People who have not done at least some stocking up already are going to find it harder (and more expensive) to do as time goes by. 

I am definitely not ready for a long siege of shortages, but every shopping trip, I have been buying a little more canned foods and storable things like beans , lentils, and rice. I am trying to keep the gas tank full, in case we have the fuel shortages like happened before, when people were in long lines at the gas stations.


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## chic (Oct 15, 2021)

I haven't seen Halloween candy anywhere!!!!!!!! Not in supermarkets drugstores or convenience stores. Has it been cancelled due to the pandemic? The kids did go trick or treating last year. So I wonder.


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## StarSong (Oct 15, 2021)

There's Halloween candy here.  I've seen it at Costco, Aldi and some other places.


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## JustBonee (Oct 15, 2021)

Plenty of Halloween candy in all the  stores around here too.


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## StarSong (Oct 15, 2021)

Bonnie said:


> Plenty of Halloween candy in all the  stores around here too.


I just bought a bunch today.  Hoping it will remain intact over the next 16 days... where to stash it so I'm not seeing it every time I walk into the kitchen.   Hmmmm....


----------



## Owlivia (Oct 15, 2021)

Yesterday in Aldi, they had a freezer end case full of large turkeys.  A sign on the case said to buy them now if you want one, as they would probably not restock.  That's pretty much the info that has been on the news, that, and that smaller turkeys would be in very short supply.  I didn't buy the turkey as I couldn't lift it, and no longer want a big one. 

Some items in Aldi were not available, soups, and other canned goods.

Walmart has been having lots of empty shelves for the past two months.  Just empty spaces, all different types of products food, paper, cleaning, etc.

Last year and currently, the chain grocery stores seem to be well stocked.  
I haven't been able to get the small containers of Greek yogurt for two months.  Last week, a woman and I were looking at the empty cases where bacon, sausage, etc. should have been.


----------



## Marie5656 (Oct 15, 2021)

*Found this article today, about things that may be affected by the supply chain

Grocery store shelves bare? These products may be hard to find due to supply chain issues (yahoo.com)*


----------



## Don M. (Oct 15, 2021)

Lately, it seems that the "shortage of truck drivers" is being blamed for these shortages....I don't understand why.  Truck drivers, on average, make about $25/hr.  That is far above any "minimum wage", and unemployment benefits.  Plus, most of their work is outdoors, and alone...which should offer minimum risk for exposure to Covid.  Why are many avoiding this job????


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 15, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Lately, it seems that the "shortage of truck drivers" is being blamed for these shortages....I don't understand why.  Truck drivers, on average, make about $25/hr.  That is far above any "minimum wage", and unemployment benefits.  Plus, most of their work is outdoors, and alone...which should offer minimum risk for exposure to Covid.  Why are many avoiding this job????


My friend, who is a trucker, said there has been a shortage of drivers for 10-15 years. He said it is because no one wants to do it, and a lot of people have retired. He knows no one under 30 who is a trucker. He thinks some of them don't want the job because it carries no prestige and they don't want to drive for 10 hours at a time.

He says driving for many hours is all that fun, although he likes his job just fine, and doesn't mind the driving.


----------



## John cycling (Oct 15, 2021)

A close friend's son in law was working for a company that recently laid off all their truckers.  However he's also been working for a long time as an independent trucker with his wife previously finding plenty of work for him, but now they're having a hard time finding any.

This is in spite of many truckers not working now due to the mandates.  He has personally had 4 long time close friends in their 30's and 40's who were forced to get the shots to get trucking runs and all 4 of them are now dead.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 16, 2021)

Owlivia said:


> Yesterday in Aldi, they had a freezer end case full of large turkeys.  A sign on the case said to buy them now if you want one, as they would probably not restock.  That's pretty much the info that has been on the news, that, and that smaller turkeys would be in very short supply.  I didn't buy the turkey as I couldn't lift it, and no longer want a big one.
> 
> Some items in Aldi were not available, soups, and other canned goods.
> 
> ...


Interesting about possible holiday food shortages.  

Other SF members have no idea where you are, @Owlivia, so others can't know if your experience might apply to them. Are you in the UK, the US, AU, Germany, or somewhere else? If in the US can you give a general region? 

Would you consider updating your account info to include a rough location?
https://www.seniorforums.com/account/


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## chic (Oct 16, 2021)

Owlivia said:


> Yesterday in Aldi, they had a freezer end case full of large turkeys.  A sign on the case said to buy them now if you want one, as they would probably not restock.  That's pretty much the info that has been on the news, that, and that smaller turkeys would be in very short supply.  I didn't buy the turkey as I couldn't lift it, and no longer want a big one.
> 
> Some items in Aldi were not available, soups, and other canned goods.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for reminding me I need to buy sausages NOW and freeze them so we can have some for our holiday meals.  I buy and freeze meat every time I go to the grocery store just in case this is really bad.


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## OneEyedDiva (Oct 16, 2021)

Whoa! I haven't bought beef in so long but *damn! *I'm glad I don't have to worry about ever buying it again. And of course I don't buy pork products. 
Re the OP: Still not seeing empty shelves at our local supermarket. I've been stocking up on everything I'll need in the coming months. Besides Costco, I've ordered necessary items from Walmart.com, Luckyvitamin.com and Amazon.


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## chic (Oct 16, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Whoa! I haven't bought beef in so long but *damn! *I'm glad I don't have to worry about ever buying it again. And of course I don't buy pork products.
> Re the OP: Still not seeing empty shelves at our local supermarket. I've been stocking up on everything I'll need in the coming months. Besides Costco, I've ordered necessary items from Walmart.com, Luckyvitamin.com and Amazon.


Ditto. I buy poultry and chicken sausages. But healthy meats are the first things the stores run out of. I've already stocked up on vitamins in case this lasts longer than they expect. But I hope it doesn't.


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## Jules (Oct 16, 2021)

Other than a few vacant spaces on the shelves, the only thing that wasn’t empty was my shopping cart.  Three grocery stores in two days.


----------



## terry123 (Oct 17, 2021)

I noticed on my last Walmart order I ordered 2 boxes of kleenex and there was a limit of two.  Fine with me. I don't plan on hoarding any.


----------



## Ken N Tx (Oct 17, 2021)

Ken N Tx said:


> Local 711 convince store had a display, near the cash register, stocked with hand sanitizer masks and 4 rolls of toilet paper!! I thought that was funny...


.....................


----------



## timoc (Oct 17, 2021)

No one can really predict how the food situation may pan out, and panic buying doesn't help, but being the sensible type of fella that I am, I may just decide to fill the freezer up with a few dozen tubs of ice cream.


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 17, 2021)

I made an early morning Walmart run.

I was surprised that the packaged cold cuts, sausage, etc... from brand name producers like Hillshire Farms, Jimmy Dean were empty.  The fresh milk section was also fairly empty.  Heat and eat foods like Hormel Compleats were also in short supply.

A few other gaps but still plenty of food to choose from.

Crews were busy restocking.

Some of it may be the result of normal weekend shopping with an eye towards stocking up.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 17, 2021)

When shopping earlier this week there were no obvious shortages. I was able to buy everything on my list, and then some.


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## caroln (Oct 17, 2021)

GeorgiaXplant said:


> I posted this on another thread:
> 
> I read online that Walmart, Target and some other big chains were chartering their own cargo ships and dock workers to unload their merchandise to their trucks with their own drivers. I wondered why all those ships are just sitting out there in the ocean...duh! because there's no one to unload them, no drivers for the trucks.


Isn't there some sort of union that dock workers have to belong to?  Just anybody can't work the docks, can they?


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## Liberty (Oct 17, 2021)

Longshoremen's union is for the dock workers.  The Commercial Carrier's driving schools closed during covid and that has created a real long haul truck driver's backlog.  What with the normal attrition; retirements, job quits and changing professions, the truck drivers are in short supply.  It takes quite a while to properly train a big rig driver.


----------



## old medic (Oct 17, 2021)

cdestroyer said:


> here is a list of survival items some are also listed for barter usage, ya never know..
> 
> Beans: These are relatively cheap and are a great long-lasting item to store.
> Hard Grains: Stored properly hard grains have a shelf life of around 10 – 12 years.


Pasta's

Storage hint for those interested....
Using regular Mason jars, and other same style with a plastic screw on lid (think mayonnaise jar)
Order some Oxygen absorption packs
Fill your jars, toss in a pack and seal... The lid will actually suck down as the Oxygen is absorbed.
This stuff with be usable for many many years.


----------



## Harry Le Hermit (Oct 18, 2021)

My 2¢ worth... In the U.S. (and only the U.S.) any potential food shortages are only peripherally caused by the Big Supply Chain disruption. The big supply chain disruption was caused by fully loaded trains inbound from the ports, with smaller service and many empty carriages going outbound at the start of the pandemic. As the U.S. rebounded late last year, this continued. This problem became so bad in the Spring, the major rails (BNSF, UNP) halted all inbound and outbound port service for at least one week in July. Since then they have been metering, which means take away form the ports matches freight going to the ports. This has caused the ports to become clogged. 

Across the U.S., trucks are being delayed as the rail yards attempt to stack and unstack containers, as well as delays at delivery points, etc. Due in large part to personnel shortages, etc. 

There is an idea that food inflation is due to some impending shortage caused by the Big Supply Chain disruption and hoarding may therefore be a factor in driving the cost up and emptying some shelves. However, I would not disparage the notion of hoarding, as worldwide weather has contributed to some very large crop losses, especially in that really heavily populated country in Asia that is a massive food importer.


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## hollydolly (Oct 19, 2021)

Owlivia said:


> Yesterday in Aldi, they had a freezer end case full of large turkeys.  A sign on the case said to buy them now if you want one, as they would probably not restock.  That's pretty much the info that has been on the news, that, and that smaller turkeys would be in very short supply.  I didn't buy the turkey as I couldn't lift it, and no longer want a big one.
> 
> Some items in Aldi were not available, soups, and other canned goods.
> 
> ...


Co-incidentally I was in Aldi yesterday... all shelves were fully stocked..


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## MrPants (Oct 19, 2021)

Some are using the supply chain disruptions to their advantage.


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## hollydolly (Oct 19, 2021)

The types of shortages hitting different countries.... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-58868636


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## StarSong (Oct 19, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> The types of shortages hitting different countries....
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-58868636


Interesting article.  It appears that fuel and energy shortages are now or will shortly be a serious problem in many parts of the world.


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## hollydolly (Oct 19, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Interesting article.  It appears that fuel and energy shortages are now or will shortly be a serious problem in many parts of the world.


yes well as you know we in the UK had a massive shortage  of petrol and diesel this last month and it's still ongoing in some places still.. blamed not on fuel shortage but delivery driver shortage... but if you read this about the USA specifically....it shows that a Gas shortage was and might still be expected country wide in the US

_People planning vacations around the US this summer could be in for a nasty surprise. According to industry experts, gas shortages, especially in vacation hotspots, are looming because of a lack of tanker truck drivers to deliver fuel. 

According to the National Tank Truck Carriers (NTTC) – an industry group that advocates on behalf of tank truck companies and has over 200 companies on its books – nearly a quarter of the tanks on its fleet are sitting unused at the moment and waiting for drivers. CNN was first to report the news. 

Experts from the NTTC told CNN that the pandemic is primarily to blame for this. As travel came to a standstill and demand for gas dwindled, drivers were left with no work. Many took this "as a cue to retire" rather than retraining to start delivering Amazon packages, for example, Holly McCormick – who heads up the workforce committee for NTTC – told CNN.
_
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-summer-vacation-travel-threatened-gas-outages-2021-4?r=US&IR=T


----------



## StarSong (Oct 19, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> yes well as you know we in the UK had a massive shortage  of petrol and diesel this last month and it's still ongoing in some places still.. blamed not on fuel shortage but delivery driver shortage... but if you read this about the USA specifically....it shows that a Gas shortage was and might still be expected country wide in the US
> 
> _People planning vacations around the US this summer could be in for a nasty surprise. According to industry experts, gas shortages, especially in vacation hotspots, are looming because of a lack of tanker truck drivers to deliver fuel.
> 
> ...


These articles were written in April and referred to this past summer. If the US had gasoline shortages during that time they must have been rare and isolated.  On the other hand, gasoline is up 42% from a year ago  and there are repeated warnings of much higher heating and energy costs this winter, which doesn't bode well for us. 

Perhaps CNN & Business Insider were off with their predicted timing, but it sure appears the US's various fuels will be dramatically more expensive very soon and might be in short supply, as well.

Have your petrol shortages eased up any?


----------



## hollydolly (Oct 19, 2021)

StarSong said:


> These articles were written in April and referred to this past summer. If the US had gasoline shortages during that time they must have been rare and isolated.  On the other hand, gasoline is up 42% from a year ago  and there are repeated warnings of much higher heating and energy costs this winter, which doesn't bode well for us.
> 
> Perhaps CNN & Business Insider were off with their predicted timing, but it sure appears the US's various fuels will be dramatically more expensive very soon and might be in short supply, as well.
> 
> Have your petrol shortages eased up any?


yes ours have eased up significantly to what they were however the prices have gone through the roof...


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 20, 2021)

The current situation reminded me of this old quote.
_
“The white man knows how to make everything, but he does not know how to distribute it.”_ - Sitting Bull


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## AnnieA (Oct 20, 2021)

I've been camping the past week with a group of ladies in a national RV club.  A woman in the group from Atlanta does merchandise logistics for an international company. She said within a year, her price for a full shipping container from China to the States has gone from $10,000 to current ...as of last week.... $21,000.


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## StarSong (Oct 20, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> I've been camping the past week with a group of ladies in a national RV club.  A woman in the group from Atlanta does merchandise logistics for an international company. She said within a year, her price for a full shipping container from China to the States has gone from $10,000 to current ...as of last week.... $21,000.


That's what I'm hearing.  Surprised her rates have only doubled.


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## chic (Oct 20, 2021)

I remembered to buy some chicken sausages this morn to freeze for the holidays. They had gone up from around $6.99 or so to $9.42 for a pack of just four sausages. They used to give 6 per pack.


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## squatting dog (Oct 20, 2021)

Liberty said:


> Longshoremen's union is for the dock workers.  The Commercial Carrier's driving schools closed during covid and that has created a real long haul truck driver's backlog.  What with the normal attrition; retirements, job quits and changing professions, the truck drivers are in short supply.  It takes quite a while to properly train a big rig driver.


Unless you join Swift trucking company.   
At Swift, training for your CDL takes as little as four weeks – from beginning your training to receiving your license.


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## AnnieA (Oct 20, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Unless you join Swift trucking company.
> At Swift, training for your CDL takes as little as four weeks – from beginning your training to receiving your license.



That's frightening.


----------



## Becky1951 (Oct 20, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Unless you join Swift trucking company.
> At Swift, training for your CDL takes as little as four weeks – from beginning your training to receiving your license.


Thus the name *Swift*. *?   *


----------



## squatting dog (Oct 20, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> That's frightening.


Just go to you tube and look up swift drivers. It'll make you mighty wary of any swift truck you see on the highway.


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## old medic (Oct 21, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Co-incidentally I was in Aldi yesterday... all shelves were fully stocked..


And sunday at Lidl many barren looking areas...


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## old medic (Oct 21, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> She said within a year, her price for a full shipping container from China to the States has gone from $10,000 to current ...as of last week.... $21,000.


AWESOME NEWS..... maybe we can start making the stuff here again cheaper than shipping costs


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## JustBonee (Oct 21, 2021)

old medic said:


> AWESOME NEWS..... maybe we can start making the stuff here again cheaper than shipping costs



You would think that it would get  businesses to rethink this idea once  again!


----------



## old medic (Oct 21, 2021)

Bonnie said:


> You would think that it would get  businesses to rethink this idea once  again!


As long as they aren't taxed  out of the profit... AKA part the reason it went overseas to begin with


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 21, 2021)

Definitely a  manufactured crisis - some pretend it's because people won't apply for jobs as truck drivers.  Bah! Complete garbage argument. Jobs as drivers often start at $80K per year. If you just graduated from high school and was not going to college, wouldn't you take a job at that salary if it was offered to you?  How about those just discharged from the military or the homeless?  Wouldn't they take such a job if it was offered?  Of course they would  -  I certainly would take it in half a second.  The greedy capitalists can easily hire anyone to take those jobs but are withholding them so that a crisis would exist:  *artificially create shortages, increase demand, then they have an excuse for increasing prices and profits*.  As always, it's capitalist greed and the never ending quest for profit maximization that is the problem.


----------



## JustBonee (Oct 21, 2021)

old medic said:


> As long as they aren't taxed  out of the profit... AKA part the reason it went overseas to begin with


After all these years of Chinese dominance in the supply chain,  I  would think  the concept of making changes would be something to entertain. 
The time certainly seems right.


----------



## Jules (Oct 21, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Definitely a  manufactured crisis - some pretend it's because people won't apply for jobs as truck drivers.  Bah! Complete garbage argument. Jobs as drivers often start at $80K per year. If you just graduated from high school and was not going to college, wouldn't you take a job at that salary if it was offered to you?  How about those just discharged from the military or the homeless?  Wouldn't they take such a job if it was offered?  Of course they would  -  I certainly would take it in half a second.  The greedy capitalists can easily hire anyone to take those jobs but are withholding them so that a crisis would exist:  *artificially create shortages, increase demand, then they have an excuse for increasing prices and profits*.  As always, it's capitalist greed and the never ending quest for profit maximization that is the problem.


If someone isn’t qualified they can’t apply for the job.  It doesn’t happen overnight unless you drive for Swift which @squatting dog referenced in post #208.

I don’t want just anyone driving those big rigs. 

Here they’re finally cracking down and creating more rigorous training for our drivers.


----------



## Jules (Oct 21, 2021)

It’s not just supplies that are in demand.  Listened to someone talking about having a massage.  Told to book ahead several months for appointments.  There’s no staff.  The schools couldn’t function so there’s no new graduates.


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## oldiebutgoody (Oct 21, 2021)

Jules said:


> If someone isn’t qualified they can’t apply for the job.  It doesn’t happen overnight unless you drive for Swift which @squatting dog referenced in post #208.
> 
> I don’t want just anyone driving those big rigs.
> 
> Here they’re finally cracking down and creating more rigorous training for our drivers.





CDL-A truck driver training can take as few as *3 to 6 weeks* to complete. But your CDL program may take up to 3 months depending on your school and its scheduling options. Some “advanced” CDL training programs take even longer, but those are less common options.

how long does it take to train to drive a big truck - Bing



Had any of those companies bothered to hire a kid that graduated from high school this past May or June, by now such a graduate would know how to drive a truck and the problem would be solved. 

Do not buy into this garbage that there is a labor shortage.  It is nothing more than capitalist propaganda garbage designed to increase prices and corporate profit maximization.


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 21, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Just go to you tube and look up swift drivers. It'll make you mighty wary of any swift truck you see on the highway.


Man, that's sure changed from 30 years ago.
They used to be a pretty good outfit to drive for.


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 21, 2021)

OK, there's some shortages, here and there.

Then...there's this;
(no wonder the US is hated)


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## oldiebutgoody (Oct 22, 2021)

StarSong said:


> If the US had gasoline shortages during that time they must have been rare and isolated.





You remind me of the contrived gasoline "shortage" of 1979.  The leftist newspaper *The Village Voice  *reported that there was no real shortage and that NYC harbors were filled with tankers.  One day I looked for myself and was startled to see tankers all over the harbors.  Not one other news media source reported that truth. Too bad people did not have portable camera phones so that the entire world could see the phoniness of these shortage claims. Same thing today - there is no shortage of labor or commodities. Just the same damnable profit maximization motive.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 22, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> You remind me of the contrived gasoline "shortage" of 1979.  The leftist newspaper *The Village Voice  *reported that there was no real shortage and that NYC harbors were filled with tankers.  One day I looked for myself and was startled to see tankers all over the harbors.  Not one other news media source reported that truth. Too bad people did not have portable camera phones so that the entire world could see the phoniness of these shortage claims. Same thing today - there is no shortage of labor or commodities. Just the same damnable profit maximization motive.


I'm not suggesting that there haven't been recent gasoline shortages in various parts of the world, merely that there apparently hadn't been widespread shortages in the US this past summer.  Early 1970s oil crisis occurred because of an OPEC embargo that raised commodity prices dramatically while decreasing supplies.  

In 1979 a war between Iraq & Iran created shortages once again. Rumors swirled both times about numerous tanker ships floating near US harbors but being unable to offload their crude. If that were true, I never saw a shred of evidence - not a single photo. Tried to find one today and still came up with nothing. The LA Times and NY Times would surely have been all over that. 

Our current mess is unlikely to be due to contrived circumstances. This avalanche was started by the large Covid snowball and exacerbated by foreseeable and unforeseeable complications, including just-in-time inventory levels, intermittent factory closures due to illnesses, intermittent shipping port closures for the same reason, truckers who were already underpaid and overworked, and US ports that were already operating at maximum capacity. 

Companies don't make money by NOT shipping to their customers.


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 22, 2021)

I think that the supply chain disruptions are real but overblown.

A few days ago on the news they said there was a three week backlog of ships waiting to be unloaded.

The thing that I’m curious about is how and why it developed.

I find it hard to believe that there is not some sort of real time tracking of the location of every container and container ship.  It seems to me that someone fell asleep at the switch  and didn’t take steps to authorize overtime and 24 hour work schedules when the backlog was only 24-48 hours instead of three weeks.

Also many of the things that are missing from my local markets are things that are grown and processed in the Inited States.

The dollar store is well stocked with foreign made Christmas goods so I tend to think that this will be another crisis that will suddenly resolve itself when it falls out of the news cycle.


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## fmdog44 (Oct 22, 2021)

At the root of the problem is lack of truck drivers and dock workers. Where are the new driverless trucks when we need them?!


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## Gary O' (Oct 22, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I think that the supply chain disruptions are real but overblown.


Just a note (maybe already mentioned);
Panic buying creates the biggest, quickest shortages
Same with the gas shortage of '79


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 22, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Companies don't make money by NOT shipping to their customers.




But they do through increasing prices which is what they are doing now.   They have had six months to hire all those who graduated from high schools (or who dropped out of school) to drive their trucks.  Nobody is stopping them from hiring them.


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## OneEyedDiva (Oct 22, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> But they do through increasing prices which is what they are doing now.   They have had six months to hire all those who graduated from high schools (or who dropped out of school) to drive their trucks.  Nobody is stopping them from hiring them.


Trucking companies can't hire just anybody "out of high school". My son is a trucker for JB Hunt and sometimes does the training. It's amazing what he encounters while trying to teach safe trucking! Not everyone is cut out to drive. Then there's the process of passing tests to get their CDLs. Companies can't afford to put insurance risks on the road.


----------



## hollydolly (Oct 22, 2021)

I was saying here yesterday that Aldi had next to no fruit or veg.. well today our biggest  Supermarket Chain Tesco.. have found themselves short of fresh vegetables  stocks as well and are replacing the spaces with... cardboard cut-outs...


----------



## hollydolly (Oct 22, 2021)

Britain’s manufacturers are struggling with their worst supply shortages since the mid-1970s, as fears grow in the sector over the economic fallout from rising costs and a lack of key materials.

Almost two-thirds of the businesses surveyed in the snapshot from the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) warned that shortages of components would hit factory output in the next three months.



That was the biggest share since January 1975, a year when inflation hit a postwar high amid severe economic turbulence in Britain and abroad, with NHS doctors going on strike and Glasgow Scotland  bin (trash) collectors staging industrial action.

The latest survey of 263 manufacturers, held against a backdrop of severe supply chain disruption caused by Covid and Brexit, also reported rising concern over staff shortages holding back industrial output over the coming months.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ortages-cbi-businesses-budget-spending-review


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 22, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Trucking companies can't hire just anybody "out of high school". My son is a trucker for JB Hunt and sometimes does the training. It's amazing what he encounters while trying to teach safe trucking! Not everyone is cut out to drive. Then there's the process of passing tests to get their CDLs. Companies can't afford to put insurance risks on the road.




Yes it is true that not everyone can drive a truck.  But then, not everyone can be an accountant.  I worked as one for 20 years, trained many successfully, but had a handful who dropped out of the industry as it was far too difficult for them.  From what I've read, close to 4 million kids graduated or were seniors who dropped out of school this past summer.  You just will never convince me that you cannot find suitable candidates for the trucking industry from this enormous group.  In fact, I  guarantee that you can find more more qualified truckers than you can find suitable accountants.  

Do yourself a favor, examine all the facts and factors, and do not buy into this garbage that in a land of 340+ million people you cannot find enough of them to drive a truck with a starting salary of $80K per annum.  It is nothing more than a baseless fairy tale.


----------



## Harry Le Hermit (Oct 22, 2021)

I think I might have said this before, there might be a nationwide shortage of drivers, but I keep seeing pictures of long lines of trucks sitting and waiting to go somewhere. I would not expect to see those lines if there were a shortage of drivers in those areas.

Secondly, I wonder the outcome... when all this is resolved. Certainly some consumers (me) are hoarding, but stores and factories are adapting their just in time inventories to compensate for much longer lead times, which is also hoarding in a fashion. I hope it doesn't rapidly resolve itself, or those factories and stores will be reducing orders due to shorter lead times and hoarders such as myself, will be reducing stockpiles. Know what I mean Vern?


----------



## Aunt Bea (Oct 23, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I was saying here yesterday that Aldi had next to no fruit or veg.. well today our biggest  Supermarket Chain Tesco.. have found themselves short of fresh vegetables  stocks as well and are replacing the spaces with... cardboard cut-outs...


I imagine the cardboard cutouts are designed to reduce the energy used tc cool the empty spaces. It’s  surprsing that they don’t have some other stock that they could use to fill the refrigerated cases.


----------



## hollydolly (Oct 23, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I imagine the cardboard cutouts are designed to reduce the energy used tc cool the empty spaces. It’s  surprsing that they don’t have some other stock that they could use to fill the refrigerated cases.


those fresh veg cases and shelves  are not refrigerated Aunt Bea....


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## Jules (Oct 23, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> those fresh veg cases and shelves  are not refrigerated Aunt Bea....


This surprised me too until I thought about it.  Ours aren’t either.

Guess they’re just showing the consumers what they’re missing.  Waste of cardboard, imo.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Yes it is true that not everyone can drive a truck.  But then, not everyone can be an accountant.  I worked as one for 20 years, trained many successfully, but had a handful who dropped out of the industry as it was far too difficult for them.  From what I've read, close to 4 million kids graduated or were seniors who dropped out of school this past summer.  You just will never convince me that you cannot find suitable candidates for the trucking industry from this enormous group.  In fact, I  guarantee that you can find more more qualified truckers than you can find suitable accountants.
> 
> Do yourself a favor, examine all the facts and factors, and do not buy into this garbage that in a land of 340+ million people you cannot find enough of them to drive a truck with a starting salary of $80K per annum.  It is nothing more than a baseless fairy tale.


Talk to some truckers - the truly baseless fairy tale is that truckers get a starting salary of $80k per year.  Indeed, very few earn anywhere near that.  Most work very long hours, sleep in their rigs because they can't afford hotels, use pee bottles rather than stopping to relieve themselves, and are paid by the mile - so no payments for waiting time at pickups or deliveries, including those long lines at ports.    

Complain and you're shunted to the back of the line by dispatchers, meaning very little work and the worst runs.  Annual turnover in US trucking companies averages some 75%, long-haulers have a turnover rate of 90%.  

People don't leave high paying employment and good working conditions. Quite the reverse.

A deep deep dive on the scam of trucking companies pushing drivers to become independent owner-operators shows how those poor folks really get screwed - earning less than federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour after paying their truck note, maintenance, dispatch fees and fuel related expenses.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/05/25/999784202/is-there-really-a-truck-driver-shortage
https://workhound.com/2021/06/what-ata-says-about-driver-turnover/
https://www.cnet.com/features/truck...ths-you-didnt-know-about-trucking-in-america/


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 23, 2021)

There are plenty of links from the industry which show otherwise:

Can Truckers Earn Over $100K? - TruckersTraining

CDL Truck Driver - Earn $80,000-$85,000/Year + Up to $20,000 Sign-On | Longmont, CO | 7432 | HelpWanted.com



In my years in accounting (and many of those years were as an IRS agent), I cam across plenty of truckers who made enormous amounts of money and there were times when some of that money was off the books.  This means some of their earnings went untaxed.


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## StarSong (Oct 23, 2021)

If it's such a lucrative, joyful profession people would be lined up for jobs.

Ads from trucking companies with big promises in hopes of luring applicants isn't evidence of high salaries or desirable working conditions.


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## oldiebutgoody (Oct 23, 2021)

As you can see I did not imagine the $80K figure as it has been mentioned on radio here in the Twin Cities both in ads and radio discussions. Evidently, some have taken advantage of these job opportunities although I cannot possibly account for why more have not done so. And while it may be true that some of these jobs may not be ideal (although to me nothing can be worse than being a @#$#@ accountant as that job sᵘcks beyond all manner of description) at least this shows that there are jobs out there. In a land of over 300 million people there simply is no such thing as a labor shortage.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 24, 2021)

Not sure if we're playing semantics here.  Can we at least agree that there are too few people working in certain industries to keep the supply chain running smoothly?  Whether due to lousy working conditions, a lack of qualified workers, poor pay for hours worked, incompetent management or other reasons, the fact remains that certain jobs are going unfilled.    

I would never suggest you were making up the $80K figure.  My point was that if truck driving was (as they used to say)_ all that and a bag of chips_, there would be no need for radio ads to entice new drivers.  Word of mouth among the unemployed, underemployed, or unhappily employed spreads like wildfire when truly good opportunities open up.             

That said, current global supply chain issues run far deeper than current US or UK commercial driver shortages or greedy corporate board members, including that for the last 18 months Westerners have been shopping like it's Black Friday.  Flush with cash typically used for experiential spending (vacations, event tickets, drinks and dinner out, salon services, massages, etc.), they turned to loading up on consumer goods - nearly all of which have components that cross the globe a few times before arriving at their doorstep in a completed state.  

We all know people who relieve boredom or anxiety with a shopping salve, whether that's cruising yard sales, Main Street, Amazon, Home Depot, grocery aisles, garden centers, car dealerships, remodeling and building suppliers, furniture stores, you name it.  Just read SF threads and you'll see what I mean.    

I'm not casting aspersions because I'm as guilty as the next person. Since the pandemic began my back-up pantry and freezers have gradually become crammed beyond reason, especially considering that they're only feeding two people. 

I have GOT to calm my food shortage anxiety and stop buying anything but fresh produce so we can work our way through the probably six months worth of frozen and shelf-stable food in our stash.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 24, 2021)

I read through the last few pages of this thread, the October posts.  A lot of people are saying “I am not panic buying just stocking up”. .  I still think it’s an artificial shortage fueled by the media and others saying that there will not be enough for Christmas or thanksgiving or whatever.  Panic buying.

As for planting a victory garden in the USA, what was the source of this announcement?  I have not heard that and the entire USA is headed into winter so no sane responsible person would say such a thing until spring, and few would believe it.  It’s true you can grow a garden successfully inside-its done all the time with marijuana.  . Just ask one of your sketcher neighbors how they do it.


----------



## hollydolly (Oct 24, 2021)

I personally haven't 'stocked up'' in months.. not since the actual empty supermarkets during the  height of the pandemic, and we were only permitted 2 of many items... so I still have enough TP. and canned foods since then, and like you @StarSong , I have to get through a few months of food  in my freezers and store cupboard before buying anything in any kind of bulk again...


----------



## StarSong (Oct 24, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I still think it’s an artificial shortage fueled by the media and others saying that there will not be enough for Christmas or thanksgiving or whatever. Panic buying.


As someone who is still working part-time, and whose function is primarily procurement, I can say with fair authority that at least some out-of-stocks are not artificial shortages fueled by media hype.  Since last spring I've been seeing zero inventories across the country and among all suppliers on items that are typically in stock everywhere for immediate delivery.  I've never seen anything remotely like this in 40+ years in the apparel industry, nor has anyone else I've spoken with.    

People in vehicle sales and repairs will tell you the same thing. New vehicles are harder to come by and repair parts are scarce.


----------



## hollydolly (Oct 24, 2021)

StarSong said:


> As someone who is still working part-time, and whose function is primarily procurement, I can say with fair authority that at least some out-of-stocks are not artificial shortages fueled by media hype.  Since last spring I've been seeing zero inventories across the country and among all suppliers on items that are typically in stock everywhere for immediate delivery.  I've never seen anything remotely like this in 40+ years in the apparel industry, nor has anyone else I've spoken with.
> 
> People in vehicle sales and repairs will tell you the same thing. New vehicles are harder to come by and repair parts are scarce.


yep that's correct , it's what I've been told by sales people everywhere, and especially those providing parts as you say SS...and even the nurse who gave me my pre-meds at the hospital 2 weeks ago was talking about how even in nursing they've never seen or even imagined in 30 years of nursing, we'd have such shortages of everything, right through to nursing staff...

Also... I've never seen so many people buy new or next to new cars as I have seen this last 18 months.. despite the fact many were laid off, or WFH.. they all seemed to be able to afford new cars...( not me )


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## oldiebutgoody (Oct 24, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Not sure if we're playing semantics here. Can we at least agree that there are too few people working in certain industries to keep the supply chain running smoothly? Whether due to lousy working conditions, a lack of qualified workers, poor pay for hours worked, incompetent management or other reasons, the fact remains that certain jobs are going unfilled.




No semantics, no problem at all.  Remember that the primary issue here is the mythical  "labor shortage". The other issues are marginal at best. There simply is no such thing as a labor shortage.  The greedy capitalists can solve the supply chain disruption any time they want - all they need do is to hire the truckers and distributors to move the commodities. With this the contrived problem is solved.


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## StarSong (Oct 24, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> The greedy capitalists can solve the supply chain disruption any time they want - all they need do is to hire the truckers and distributors to move the commodities. With this the contrived problem is solved.


Agreed.  If truckers are paid well, they'll be happy to fill those positions.


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## Marie5656 (Oct 24, 2021)

*Went to grocery store the other day.  Empty paper goods aisle brought back memories. Interesting thing...enough toilet paper, but empty of things like paper towels and napkins.   Much empty space in frozen foods.  But rest of store fairly well stocked.*


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## Don M. (Oct 24, 2021)

If nothing else, these shortages will show the "dangers" of moving the manufacturing of so many consumer products to China.  Saving a few percentage points on costs, due to the low wages in China, might be OK, UNTIL something like these shortages occurs, and we have NO recourse.  Hopefully, these shortages will provide some incentives to return a lot of this manufacturing back to our shores.  We would be far better off paying a bit more for US labor, than facing the "price gouging" and shortages when the supply chain is interrupted.


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## chic (Oct 24, 2021)

All was great at the store today. Everything is well stocked. Back to normal or seems so. They have the Christmas candy out already but still no Halloween candy which is very weird.


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## oldiebutgoody (Oct 24, 2021)

Don M. said:


> If nothing else, these shortages will show the "dangers" of moving the manufacturing of so many consumer products to China.  Saving a few percentage points on costs, due to the low wages in China, might be OK, UNTIL something like these shortages occurs, and we have NO recourse.  Hopefully, these shortages will provide some incentives to return a lot of this manufacturing back to our shores.  We would be far better off paying a bit more for US labor, than facing the "price gouging" and shortages when the supply chain is interrupted.




Excellent post.  Bring back all those jobs here and hire Americans.  This will put a stop to all of these contrived "shortage" crises.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 24, 2021)

chic said:


> All was great at the store today. Everything is well stocked. Back to normal or seems so. They have the Christmas candy out already but still no Halloween candy which is very weird.


Plenty of Halloween candy here (crunch, crunch), unfortunately.

Plus, a Culver’s just opened very near to us and when we bought a can of chili at Smith the back of the receipt had buy one get on free concrete mixers on it.  So, no shortage of custard either.    No wonder my blood sugar is, well, challenged.


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## Lewkat (Oct 24, 2021)

As stated here before this, let's stop outsourcing and begin manufacturing at home, hiring our own citizens and paying them a living wage with benefits and bonuses plus a decent pension plan.  Greedy CEO's and Wall Street should look back at the 50's and 60's when we had all that.  Our country and others who followed our pattern were doing very well indeed.  Including the bosses.


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## StarSong (Oct 26, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Excellent post.  Bring back all those jobs here and hire Americans.  This will put a stop to all of these contrived "shortage" crises.





Lewkat said:


> As stated here before this, let's stop outsourcing and begin manufacturing at home, hiring our own citizens and paying them a living wage with benefits and bonuses plus a decent pension plan.  Greedy CEO's and Wall Street should look back at the 50's and 60's when we had all that.  Our country and others who followed our pattern were doing very well indeed.  Including the bosses.


Sorry, but patriotism stops at the checkout counter.  No way Americans will start paying 30% more (or higher) to support American jobs.  If they were, those jobs would never have left our shores in the first place because people would have refused to buy foreign made goods.  

Bringing 1960s type factory work back to the US is little more than a fantasy.  Thinking Americans are interested in the grinding monotony of factory work is yet another fantasy.  (I worked in a factory during the summer between HS and college and though the pay was double minimum wage, I was more than happy to leave when school started, and didn't return the following summer. A job as a McDonald's counter person paid less but was more interesting so that's what I chose.)     

The rare factories  operating in the US are highly automated to keep labor costs at a minimum.  Bringing manufacturing back would be more of that.  

The world spins forward not back.


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## Lakeland living (Oct 26, 2021)

Winter is about to hit, have enough here in case of storms etc to survive a few months.
     Have noticed some empty shelves up this way, mostly frozen meals, pop and bread vanishes. I don't eat the bread from stores anymore, I learned how to make my own. Butt wipe , paper towels etc. vanish when on sale. Thinking locals have learned to keep a higher level in the pantry. Coffee, tea over 700 individual for each.  I also buy in bulk, as other smart people do....


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 26, 2021)

Lakeland living said:


> Winter is about to hit, have enough here in case of storms etc to survive a few months.
> Have noticed some empty shelves up this way, mostly frozen meals, pop and bread vanishes. I don't eat the bread from stores anymore, I learned how to make my own. Butt wipe , paper towels etc. vanish when on sale. Thinking locals have learned to keep a higher level in the pantry. Coffee, tea over 700 individual for each.  I also buy in bulk, as other smart people do....


Why is it that if someone does not do what others say they do, they are not smart, or not intelligent, or some other word questioning their abilities.  I do not buy a lot of stuff-except toilet paper-not having toilet harmed my mental health.

But I haven’t bought it in months.  I still have a couple months worth left.


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## HarryHawk (Oct 26, 2021)

More and more empty shelves in Michigan.  The other day Krogers had at least a 1/3 of their meat freezers totally empty.  Also out of most of the canned soups and spaghetti sauces.   Today at Aldi, totally out of ALL frozen vegetables.  

Lots of stories on the news about kids may not be getting their favorite toy under the Xmas tree.  If this trend keeps up, they may be lucky to get a can of soup


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 26, 2021)

HarryHawk said:


> More and more empty shelves in Michigan.  The other day Krogers had at least a 1/3 of their meat freezers totally empty.  Also out of most of the canned soups and spaghetti sauces.   Today at Aldi, totally out of ALL frozen vegetables.
> 
> Lots of stories on the news about kids may not be getting their favorite toy under the Xmas tree.  If this trend keeps up, they may be lucky to get a can of soup


It’s panic buying and now they will be stuck with all that canned soup .  As for kids not getting their favorite toy boo-hoo, lots of poor kids never get any toys at Christmas let alone a favorite toy.

Maybe you meant to say lots of RICH or well off spoiled kids won’t get their favorite toy at Christmas.  In reality, lots of kids won’t have a Christmas tree at home, because they are homeless.

It is ALL media hype, all of it.  Most of the shortages are artificial or a certain brand is not available. I don’t see McDonald running out of hamburger.  As for Christmas, Christmas is about the birth of JC, not about a favorite toy under a fake tree.  Perhaps it’s a good time to remind our children of this fact.


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## Don M. (Oct 26, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> It is ALL media hype, all of it.  Most of the shortages are artificial or a certain brand is not available. I don’t see McDonald running out of hamburger.  As for Christmas, Christmas is about the birth of JC, not about a favorite toy under a fake tree.  Perhaps it’s a good time to remind our children of this fact.



Our families are just about "toyed out".  The little great grandkids have gotten so many toys, over the years, that their homes are almost cluttered.  We're thinking seriously about just giving them some money this Christmas...and let them go shopping for something more useful...school supplies, clothing, etc., etc.  They are getting old enough that having to chose what to spend money on might begin to give them some good lessons in "financial" prudence.


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## Della (Oct 26, 2021)

I went to the eye doctor, had the exam, and ordered a new pair of glasses and a new set of contacts.  That was a month ago and nothing has happened, it was always just a couple of days in the past.   Hmmm.  Those little overpriced pieces of plastic must be in short supply.


Aunt Bea said:


> The dollar store is well stocked with foreign made Christmas goods so I tend to think that this will be another crisis that will suddenly resolve itself when it falls out of the news cycle.


Well that's good to know.  A few years ago I decided I was tired of storing Christmas decorations on the square of plywood we call the attic.  Watching my husband risk his life carrying the stuff down the ladder began to seem like a bad idea, so we decided we would throw most of it out at the end of each season and buy new shiny stuff at the dollar store every year.  It's been fun, one year I did the tree all in silver bulbs and white ribbons and the next year all red bulbs and flowers.  This year who knows what will be on offer.


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## oldiebutgoody (Oct 26, 2021)

StarSong said:


> patriotism stops at the checkout counter




Give people a deductible credit on their tax returns when purchasing a USA manufactured car or truck, allow similar credits on other merchandise and I guarantee you will see a change.  Other countries impose tariffs for buying foreign made products.  Do the same here.  Let's see what happens next.


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## chic (Oct 26, 2021)

I think the empty shelves were from panic buying due to media scare tactics. Everyday on the road I see trucks of every kind delivering groceries and fuel oil and consumer goods. The stores are much more back to normal and gas prices have, at last, stabilized. I'm not going to worry about this anymore.


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## oldiebutgoody (Oct 28, 2021)

alternate perspectives on the mythical supply chain ''shortages''


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## Irwin (Oct 28, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> alternate perspectives on the mythical supply chain ''shortages''


Capitalism is a good thing, and good things can't be bad.


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## chic (Oct 28, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> alternate perspectives on the mythical supply chain ''shortages''


Where I live the shortages may have been caused by media driven panic buying since there are lots of delivery trucks on the roads now and the grocery stores are well supplied again.


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## StarSong (Oct 28, 2021)

I just got off the phone with one of my (apparel) suppliers.  I was hoping for updated information on some backorders that have gone unfilled for a few months.        

My rep told me about an all-company after hours Zoom meeting yesterday.  As of now, their company alone has over 700 shipping containers "on the water" with no firm dates on off-loads or rail/truck deliveries to their warehouses once the containers get onto the docks. 

The owner of this 55 year old company acknowledged they're losing money right now but are in it for the long haul so they're holding prices steady, doing fractured shipping (drawing from several warehouses across the country to complete their orders) with free freight to long-term customers, and generally doing everything possible to retain their customers and help ensure we're all still in business when everything normalizes.

People who think the global supply chain crisis is mythical or media created are fooling themselves.  Companies do not make profits unless they sell (and ship) products.  Stores lose money if people buy less because the shelves are empty.      

Will it get sorted out?  Of course.  Eventually things will settle down.  That said, there will be some shortages in the meantime.  And while the US won't be experiencing Soviet 1970s-80s pain, there are now and will continue to be very real shortages in our near futures.


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## Jules (Oct 28, 2021)

The shelves were full at Costco today.  That includes their pot pie & Kirkland TP.  There weren’t any frozen mini pastry shells.  That’s likely just because of the demand at this time of the year.  Quite often they can’t keep them in stock.  

Quality furniture is at least an eight month wait, more likely a year for a special order.  SSon had this wait too.


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## oldiebutgoody (Jan 13, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> As you can see I did not imagine the $80K figure as it has been mentioned on radio here in the Twin Cities both in ads and radio discussions. Evidently, some have taken advantage of these job opportunities although I cannot possibly account for why more have not done so. And while it may be true that some of these jobs may not be ideal (although to me nothing can be worse than being a @#$#@ accountant as that job sᵘcks beyond all manner of description) at least this shows that there are jobs out there. In a land of over 300 million people there simply is no such thing as a labor shortage.





Just as a follow up, re all that talk about labor shortage:









As a commentator says:   "Employers are basically looking for a 20 year old employee with 35 years experience who they can pay minimum wage with no benefits."  



The contrived labor "shortage" is just a capitalist way of creating supply shortage so that they can jack up prices and generate huge profits while keeping people from working so that they don't have to pay corporate FICA and unemployment  insurance taxes. It is nothing more than a scam.


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## Lakeland living (Jan 13, 2022)

Today, Foodland had full shelves, 40.00 dollars for 3 steaks. (Yes really) these were about 6 ounce. Pack of 4 peppers 8.99.    Sooo of course I left them there also.
    Nofrills, same pack of peppers, 3.99...nice large ones  no steak offered there. Ground beef extra lean..1.89 lb. over 5.00 for the same at Foodland. 10 pound potatoes.  2.98. They were 6 dollars in Foodland.
   One isle showed empty spaces..tp of course, paper towels empty.
      You have a choice buy or don't.   Or, you could go steal a truck load...apparently it is really happening
 
https://search.brave.com/search?q=Transport+truck+stolen+full+of+toilet+paper&source=desktop


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## shedevil7953 (Jan 14, 2022)

If you want to pay higher prices and/or wait a while, I have ordered TP and Crystal Light from Amazon.


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## StarSong (Jan 14, 2022)

Lakeland living said:


> Today, Foodland had full shelves, 40.00 dollars for 3 steaks. (Yes really) these were about 6 ounce. Pack of 4 peppers 8.99.    Sooo of course I left them there also.
> Nofrills, same pack of peppers, 3.99...nice large ones  no steak offered there. Ground beef extra lean..1.89 lb. over 5.00 for the same at Foodland. 10 pound potatoes.  2.98. They were 6 dollars in Foodland.
> One isle showed empty spaces..tp of course, paper towels empty.
> You have a choice buy or don't.   Or, you could go steal a truck load...apparently it is really happening
> ...


This is true in most areas, @Lakeland living.  Some grocery stores are incredibly expensive, others are more reasonable.  
I only patronize the lower priced stores.


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## Butterfly (Jan 16, 2022)

StarSong said:


> This is true in most areas, @Lakeland living.  Some grocery stores are incredibly expensive, others are more reasonable.
> I only patronize the lower priced stores.



Me, too!


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## chic (Jan 16, 2022)

While browsing down the aisle today at the grocery store, I noticed almost no sugar. This is no biggie for me since I don't use sugar but I wondered if anyone else is noticing the same. For the most part our grocery stores are well stocked.


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## Lakeland living (Jan 16, 2022)

So do I, keeping track of a few things can often save some concerns.


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## oldiebutgoody (Mar 10, 2022)

for those of you who are still convinced that there is some labor shortage or supply shortage,  consider this:


https://www.reuters.com/business/re...enue-estimates-higher-meat-prices-2022-02-07/


Tyson withheld meat from the market thereby "justifying" price increases.  While they claimed labor costs went up, it will be recalled that they fired many workers which actually reduced their labor costs:

https://www.fooddive.com/news/tyson...ky-poultry-plant-as-product-mix-shift/617540/


Said before and will say again: there are no such shortages.  This is a lie made up by the corporate profiteers and which is used to jack up prices, increase inflation, and  maximize profits.


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## Chris21E (Mar 10, 2022)

chic said:


> While browsing down the aisle today at the grocery store, I noticed almost no sugar. This is no biggie for me since I don't use sugar but I wondered if anyone else is noticing the same. For the most part, our grocery stores are well stocked.


Not at Costco and I only need sugar for the hummingbirds . 1 part sugar 4 parts water...They love it!!


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## Don M. (Mar 10, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Said before and will say again: there are no such shortages.  This is a lie made up by the corporate profiteers and which is used to jack up prices, increase inflation, and  maximize profits.


We live in "Tyson" country, with gobs of chicken and turkey farms, and a large Tyson factory about 25 miles away.  During the height of this Covid pandemic, last year, they had a problem with workers out sick with this virus.  Over the past few months, their production seems to have ramped up again.  
Most of their production line workers appear to be "immigrants".  If you go to the Walmart in that town on a weekend, you almost feel "out of place" speaking English.  I doubt that Tyson is paying much more than minimum wage....and if ICE ever visited that plant, they might arrest or deport half the workforce.


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## StarSong (Mar 11, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> for those of you who are still convinced that there is some labor shortage or supply shortage,  consider this:
> 
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/business/re...enue-estimates-higher-meat-prices-2022-02-07/
> ...


Many companies are dealing with shortages of qualified, experienced labor.  Global supply chain issues are also very real - Tyson Foods' profit picture and changing product lines notwithstanding.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Mar 11, 2022)

Don M. said:


> We live in "Tyson" country, with gobs of chicken and turkey farms, and a large Tyson factory about 25 miles away.  During the height of this Covid pandemic, last year, they had a problem with workers out sick with this virus.  Over the past few months, their production seems to have ramped up again.
> Most of their production line workers appear to be "immigrants".  If you go to the Walmart in that town on a weekend, you almost feel "out of place" speaking English.  I doubt that Tyson is paying much more than minimum wage....and if ICE ever visited that plant, they might arrest or deport half the workforce.


People can't have it both ways. They don't want the illegals crossing the southern border. But guess who is providing the labor for Tyson to supply meat for supermarkets? Hopefully, ICE will not do any raids because there sure will be a lot more complaints about shortages.

Americans don't want to do that type of awful, tedious, smelly work in turkey-chicken factories.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 11, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> But they do through increasing prices which is what they are doing now.   They have had six months to hire all those who graduated from high schools (or who dropped out of school) to drive their trucks.  Nobody is stopping them from hiring them.


_"They have had six months to hire all those who graduated from high schools (or who dropped out of school) to drive their trucks.  Nobody is stopping them from hiring them."_ Actually that's not true. I finally got to talk with my son about this. He's been driving truck for years and is also a certified trainer with J.B. Hunt. He said he has no problem with young people driving truck if they have the experience but that J.B. Hunt would not be hiring any teenagers. I asked him if that was a J.B. Hunt policy or all trucking companies. He said it's a federal law that trucking companies cannot hire anyone under the age of 21.


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## caroln (Mar 11, 2022)

I believe you can be 18 to drive a tractor trailer within your own state, but if you cross state lines you must be 21.


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## fuzzybuddy (Mar 11, 2022)

katlupe said, " I read that the shortages were due to not enough truck drivers. Truck driving jobs are plentiful around here right now." It seems were running out of humans to fill supply jobs. In Oct. 2021 I posted that a manufacturing company ear me kept running a TV ad for forklift operators. At that time they had been running the ad for months. It's March, and the ad is still on TV.?????


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## JonSR77 (Mar 11, 2022)

I have definitely seen some shortages, but for us, nothing critical.  I really don't know what the general issues are, just confirming that, yes, I personally have seen some shortages.


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## ohioboy (Mar 11, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> Hopefully, ICE will not do any raids because there sure will be a lot more complaints about shortages.


ICE has to give notice first, they simply can't show up and so call raid.


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