# Ethnic Humor, racial 'jokes'



## applecruncher (Aug 29, 2015)

I was watching 20/20 last night and they had a report about Vester Flanagan, the man who murdered the 2 newscasters in Roanoke, VA then killed himself.

First of all, it was clear to me that this guy had problems at every job he worked at…..problems getting along with people, confrontations, feelings of being persecuted and ridiculed because he was black and gay.

Of course, we don’t know all the details of every incident, but they told of two:

There was going to be some kind of luncheon and Vester walked in and saw an ice chest with a watermelon on top of it.  He flew into a rage and complained about it being racist.  (huh?)

Victim Alison Parker mentioned that a friend of hers lived on Cotton Hill Drive.  Vester felt she was making a racist joke.  (huh?)

I personally don’t see any racism whatsoever in either of those incidents.

However:

April 1968: It was my senior year in high school. My older brother worked in a factory.  A few days after MLK assassination he was in the cafeteria and heard one of the upper echelon managers telling a joke that included the “N” word.  My brother marched up to the president’s office and complained.  The man was called in, as were several witnesses.  The man apologized, but my brother didn’t accept it, and the man was fired on the spot.

Sometimes people say “well, blacks use the “N” word themselves.” Yes, some do, and most black people will tell you they don’t like that either.

I once called out a co-worker who had a habit of making pejorative remarks about Jewish people.  I know of some incidents that were clearly racist, and I know of some which were taken to be racist but (imo) were not. People need to be careful – one never knows who someone is married to, friends with, etc. And one can’t always be categorized by the way they look. 

How about you? Do you let a racist remark/slur slide or do you openly object to it?


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## Butterfly (Aug 29, 2015)

Well, I do not see anything racist about a watermelon for a luncheon, or the mention of someone's address.  I presently have a watermelon in my fridge, and I am certainly no racist.


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## tnthomas (Aug 29, 2015)

I currently work/have worked for public L.E.agencies since the mid 80s, and can't recall the last time a racial joke or slur was made.  However, I have had co-workers that possessed covert racist 'tendencies' that are not too hard to figure out.


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## imp (Aug 29, 2015)

*Think like a Lunatic*

*



			"I personally don’t see any racism whatsoever in either of those incidents"
		
Click to expand...


*Of course not, because to the sensible mind, nothing there was amiss. This guy's mind functioned in ways beyond our comprehension. Perhaps Ms. Shalimar will give a better definition, as my own are sadly deficient.    imp


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## applecruncher (Aug 29, 2015)

Only people who were acquainted with, worked with, and professionally (medically) examined Flanagan can address the possible functioning of his mind – but I’m not really looking for that. Anyway, he’s gone.

As far as watermelons, there are situations where they can be used as the basis for ethnic humor. I do not feel that the incident described above was meant as a racist joke - I already stated that. It goes without saying that having a watermelon in your refrigerator is not racist or illegal - if so they would not be openly sold.

That aside, I think that anyone reading this has, at some time, been in a situation where a racist remark/'joke' is made. What I asked was this:
_Do you let a racist remark/slur slide or do you openly object to it? _


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## imp (Aug 29, 2015)

*



			"Do you let a racist remark/slur slide or do you openly object to it?"
		
Click to expand...


*I will not respond to a racist remark, wherever it be directed, outwardly. I WILL consider inwardly, the ignorance probable of the initiator.    imp


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 29, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> How about you? Do you let a racist remark/slur slide or do you openly object to it?



I have to say I never hung out with people who were racists, but I did work in a blue collar environment for decades.  It was male dominated (don't know if that matters), and there were outsiders coming into the plant on a daily basis...so there were people from all over, many truck drivers from many states, who liked to stop in and get a laugh with my coworkers with jokes that were either sexist or racist. 

 I never made a big stink over anything, or made a scene in front of a large crowd, but I did openly object to conversations or jokes like that when just a couple of people were in earshot.  I was actually asked a few times over the years that someone had a really funny joke to tell me, do I have a problem with race/sex jokes...then I give them a little more than an ear full, and make it clear that not only I wasn't wanting to hear their joke, but they needed to take that crap out of the building.  They generally shut up pretty quickly, and apologized.


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## Shalimar (Aug 29, 2015)

There is a large population (biggest in BC,) of First Nation people in my town. Some of our locals work in the mill about 30 minutes north of here. While most are not intolerant, some are antideluvian rednecks. Many times, especially while my children were growing up, I found myself listening to what purported to be humour, ie smoked salmon jokes, delivered in a supposedly First Nation dialect, by children of these millworkers. They were visiting my kids at the time. Not funny at all, prejudice. You bet I spoke up, if my kids didn't jump the gun. Leave your racism etc at the door, or you are not welcome was the house rule. I had a boyfriend who was a mill rat, good man in many ways, but totally in denial around the inappropriate racial humour slurs. It cost him our relationship. I will not countenance that ugliness, or any other form of prejudice. To me, silence is a form of acceptance.


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## applecruncher (Aug 29, 2015)

> was actually asked a few times over the years that someone had a really funny joke to tell me, do I have a problem with race/sex jokes...



Generally, since about the early 70s most people have been progressively more careful, and even moreso since the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas case in 91.


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## tnthomas (Aug 29, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> smoked salmon jokes



Regional humor?



Shalimar said:


> To me, silence is a form of acceptance.




For some, silence may just be avoidence of an uncomfortable situation.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 29, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> Generally, since about the early 70s most people have been progressively more careful, and even moreso since the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas case in 91.



Yes, and knowing you can get canned from your job immediately helps too.  Now their jokes/remarks have to be whispered to willing ears.


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## applecruncher (Aug 29, 2015)

I have to agree that silence (with regard to racial jokes) is usually acceptance.  Sure, it can be to avoid an uncomfortable situation but isn’t that a form of cowardice? OTOH a silent glare, looking at the person as if they are something to scrape off the bottom of my shoe, can also be effective.  But just asking as if nothing is wrong…..that’s usually a form of acceptance.

Depends on the variables, of course.  If a couple is arguing about their relationship problems, I’m gonna remain silent even if asked my opinion.  I know better than to step into that.  I’m also gonna leave as soon as I can.  CYA!

But that’s not what were talking about here.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 29, 2015)

A disgusted glare followed by shaking the head and  walking away does get the point across to the offender, without saying a word.


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## Shalimar (Aug 29, 2015)

Tn, smoked salmon jokes are indeed regional humour. I live on an island where smoked salmon is a favoured food, especially among the indigenous population.


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## Linda (Aug 30, 2015)

I don't appreciate racial/fat/retarded/sexist jokes.  I always say something about how I feel about it and people usually shut up.  I have never had to cause a scene by stating how I feel.  If it were the work place (never happened to me at work) I would tell them they could get fired.  My husband has run into that and told guys they would be fired if they didn't immediately shut up.  He has hired female carpenters over the years and a lot of men think they are fair game for all sorts of sexist remarks.  One ignorant man was out making remarks to a lady truck driver delivering materials to a job site.  My husband told him to shut up and get back to work or he'd call and have the company overnight his check to him.  And what was so funny was he said she was one of the best truck drivers he'd ever seen.  She had to back a semi trailer off a busy street and down a runway or something in a shopping mall.  

There was one time I felt I needed to take a stand and I did.  This crazy church I was involved with for 30 years had a yearly convention every fall.  Several conventions all over the U.S. and around the world.  It was a pretty big church.   There were a few thousand people at Palm Springs CA and this "high up" minister in the church made such a racist remark I almost fell off my chair.  I didn't talk to others about this, except my close family, as we weren't suppose to "gossip about anyone, especially God's only true representatives on this earth."  So I immediately wrote a letter to the church headquarters and told them to pull the tape from that sermon (everything at church was recorded, at any of the church meetings) and listen to that part and they needed to take some action.  I didn't dare sign my name.  If I had been at home, I wouldn't have mailed it from my local post office either.  Within a short time the minister was "retired" with full pay I'm guessing.  I doubt I'm the only one who complained but I still feel I had a hand in getting him off the pulpit.  It took me another 2 or 3 more years before I was smart enough to get the hell out of that church and I've never looked back!


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## Laurie (Aug 30, 2015)

I think some people can be overly sensitive on this issue.  As a member of an ethic minority myself I was subjected to racist remarks nearly every day of my working life in England, and I've mentioned here before how I was arrested and imprisoned for wearing my national emblem, and subsequently forced to eat it on my national saint's day.

Having said that, I have made racist remarks about Americans in this forum,  and I have seen anti-British remarks too.  We all know when such things are said maliciously, and when it is gentle fun, the same with gentle sexism you sometimes see. 

One has to temper these things with a bit of reason.


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## Shalimar (Aug 30, 2015)

I hear what you are saying Laurie. I think perhaps it is a matter of context. Here in Canada, where recently there  was a furor concerning a picture depicting a person wearing a slave collar--banned because it fell under our strict Hate laws, some things remain very disturbing. In a country now famous for tolerance, First Nations people did not receive the vote until the 1960s, and  were relegated to after hour medical visits. Then there was the horror of Residental Schools. Even now there is the abomination of the Highway Of Tears, where an estimated 500 aboriginal women have lost their lives. No one yet has been held accountable, and in spite of calls by Amnesty International, our esteemed Prime Minister continually refuses to mount an inquiry. With this mind, racially motivated "humourous" jokes against the First People take on a harsh perspective, particularly 
In  my island region, given their well known expertise in making some of the best gourmet salmon dishes in the world, as well as the iconic Cowichan Sweaters. It would seem among some of the bigots of my country, this sneering attitude towards our indigenous peoples and their accomplishments is the last acceptable form of racism. Appalling.


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## applecruncher (Aug 30, 2015)

Laurie said:


> I think some people can be overly sensitive on this issue. As a member of an ethic minority myself I was subjected to racist remarks nearly every day of my working life in England, and I've mentioned here before how I was arrested and imprisoned for wearing my national emblem, and subsequently forced to eat it on my national saint's day.
> 
> Having said that, *I have made racist remarks about Americans in this forum*, and I have seen anti-British remarks too. We all know when such things are said maliciously, and when it is gentle fun, the same with gentle sexism you sometimes see.
> 
> One has to temper these things with a bit of reason.



Laurie, it's not possible to make racist comments about America - America is not a race, it's a country.

Racism = _the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

_There is nothing gentle about racism or sexism.


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## Cookie (Aug 30, 2015)

The ethnic jokes and stereotypes, including out and out racism is dangerous because it is usually 99% untrue, i.e. a lie, which has a very negative influence on the objects of the so-called humor.


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## fureverywhere (Aug 30, 2015)

I think a good rule for making jokes is if you ARE black, or Jewish, or a woman, or an Irishman, or gay or whatever...then you can reasonably poke fun at it. Look at Chris Rock, Denis Leary, Margaret Cho. 
Tig Notaro jokes about surviving cancer...and she does it well because she is a survivor.


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## oakapple (Aug 30, 2015)

Laurie, I assume you mean because you are Scottish, that you had people make jokes about you( in England ) surprising, but then I expect Scottish people may well be anti-English now and then.As we are all British, this is not really racist is it?


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## oakapple (Aug 30, 2015)

I have never heard anyone make racist jokes, and I don't think I have led a sheltered life particularly, but if I was in company and somebody did, I would want to say something, but it would depend on the people, place etc.


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## fureverywhere (Aug 30, 2015)

Chris Rock does a hilarious video, if you are white it will probably make you uncomfortable and that's okay
One warning-the language is very colorful



Spoiler










My favorite is "Turn that **** off!". Really no one needs to inflict their personal music taste on the whole neighborhood. But really, is laughing at this video racist...believing it to apply to all black people IS, laughing at it is not.


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## applecruncher (Aug 30, 2015)

> But really, is laughing at this video racist...believing it to apply to all black people IS, laughing at it is not.



This is correct.


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## Butterfly (Aug 30, 2015)

It has been years since anyone made racist jokes or comments around me.  It isn't acceptable among the people I know and it was absolutely not acceptable in my workplace.  And in my neighborhood we have people of several races and ethnicities and we all get along just fine.   I do have a couple of acquaintances that have said very degrading and disgusting things about gay people, and I've told them my opinion of that behavior.  They don't speak to me any more.  No loss.

If I were on the street and passing a group of people I didn't know who were making racial slurs, I doubt I would have to courage to say anything.  I don't want to end up dead.


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## applecruncher (Aug 30, 2015)

oakapple said:


> Laurie, I assume you mean because you are Scottish, that you had people make jokes about you( in England ) surprising, but then I expect Scottish people may well be anti-English now and then.As we are all British, this is not really racist is it?



Scotland and England are not races, they are countries.
The US/America is not a race, it's a country.

Within a country, there are residents of various races.

Making generalizations, jokes, or even negative remarks about a country/place has nothing to do with racism. It might be poor taste, or rude, or offensive - but it's not racism.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 30, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Tn, smoked salmon jokes are indeed regional humour. I live on an island where smoked salmon is a favoured food, especially among the indigenous population.



I happen to love smoked salmon.


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## rt3 (Aug 30, 2015)

A favorite Chris Rock line is, " I'm a millionaire and whites still don't want to be be me". I think Chris said that, maybe it's one of the other *******.


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## Falcon (Aug 30, 2015)

******* ????


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## AZ Jim (Aug 30, 2015)

WoW!  You can tell if someone doesn't think it's funny when they flatten your nose.


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## fureverywhere (Aug 30, 2015)

Now see that was reflex...*******. We've become so knee jerk politically correct that sometimes pure sarcasm shoots right past us...


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## AZ Jim (Aug 30, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> Now see that was reflex...*******. We've become so knee jerk politically correct that sometimes pure sarcasm shoots right past us...


Yeah, there is that.  But then there's other explanations too.


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## fureverywhere (Aug 30, 2015)

I believe it springs from the un-PC comment that the speaker doesn't know which one, they all look alike.


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## rt3 (Aug 30, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> I believe it springs from the un-PC comment that the speaker doesn't know which one, they all look alike.


Now that's not nice.


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## Shalimar (Aug 30, 2015)

Wow, *******????? How is that acceptable, never mind funny? Terms such as this would get the speaker banned from my house permanently.


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## Laurie (Aug 31, 2015)

> "Laurie, it's not possible to make racist comments about America - America is not a race, it's a country."



I didn't say America, I said Americans.  I regard Americans like most of the developed peoples these days, as a multi cultural race.




> "There is nothing gentle about racism or sexism."



If I tell my friend Chuck Bouchard in San Antonio that I don't know why he keeps drinking that crappy Bud, everyone knows Americans can''t  make beer, and he retorts that he can't see how a Goddamnmed limey has the all fired nerve  to speak on a subject he knows nothing about that is not a racist war!




> "Laurie, I assume you mean because you are Scottish, that you had people make jokes about you( in England ) surprising, but then I expect Scottish people may well be anti-English now and then.As we are all British, this is not really racist is it?"



I am no Scottish, and let's not try to dress it up.  I I make a joke about the English, or the Irish, or the Poles, I am being racist, and so is anybody else.


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## bill16652 (Aug 31, 2015)

I have very seldom heard racist remarks and when I did it was usually a black that used it.  I have found that young blacks are some of the most racist people around.  History should not be ignored so that it is PC, it is just that history and while some of it isnt pretty it is a part of what shaped this nation and the people in it.  Lets quit being pc and start judging on a persons merits and character ratherthan skin color.  Lets stop living up to stereotypes and start trying to make ourselves and the world a better place


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## rt3 (Aug 31, 2015)

The strongest racist remarks are seen in changes in today's language structure. Anyone can recognize a noun, but today they are much more sophisticated. They include but not limited sarcasm like, like, she was over there like, are you saying that, not. Change of passive verbs to the active form making nouns verbs. Rap music is a rich enviorment for study, but my favorite is the urban dictionary. It a Pew/ Pew world and like if you want to keep up learn the talk and walk the, put that big ass in reverse.


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## applecruncher (Aug 31, 2015)

bill16652 said:


> I have very seldom heard racist remarks and when I did it was usually a black that used it. I have found that young blacks are some of the most racist people around. History should not be ignored so that it is PC, it is just that history and while some of it isnt pretty it is a part of what shaped this nation and the people in it. Lets quit being pc and start judging on a persons merits and character ratherthan skin color. Lets stop living up to stereotypes and start trying to make ourselves and the world a better place



While I know there are black people who are racists, I do not believe that the only racist remarks you’re heard are from blacks. Come ON.

“PC” and age (youth) have nothing to do with the issue.


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## applecruncher (Aug 31, 2015)

rt3 said:


> The strongest racist remarks are seen in changes in today's language structure. Anyone can recognize a noun, but today they are much more sophisticated. They include but not limited sarcasm like, like, she was over there like, are you saying that, not. Change of passive verbs to the active form making nouns verbs. Rap music is a rich enviorment for study, but my favorite is the urban dictionary. It a Pew/ Pew world and like if you want to keep up learn the talk and walk the, put that big ass in reverse.




huh? 

Maybe you can go back and answer the question I asked (last sentence in the opening post).  I'm not understanding why that is so hard for some people.


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## Debby (Aug 31, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> Regional humor?
> 
> 
> 
> For some, silence may just be avoidence of an uncomfortable situation.




I'm going to guess here that they refer to how First Nations people used to sell salmon on a sort of black market to white folks.  I remember many times when I was a little kid, my aunt and uncle either doing or mentioning it.  First Nations people were allowed to fish (probably without license) but they weren't allowed to sell what they caught.


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## Shalimar (Aug 31, 2015)

Actually the only context I have witnessed re smoke salmon jokes in a supposedly First People's dialect, centred around mocking the ways in which some aboriginal individuals spoke with the cultural practice of smoking salmon thrown in for a "laugh." Imho no knowledge of black market practices even entered  the equation. The contempt was obvious. It speaks to a willingness to view a particular ethnicity as less than others. This is Canada's dirty little secret. We seem to be primarily colour blind except for our indigenous people. We cry out against any injustice perpetuated on other minorities. Yet this racism against First Nation Canadians is still systemic. Shame on us! Racial humour is a first step down a very slippery slope.


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## rt3 (Aug 31, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> huh?
> 
> Maybe you can go back and answer the question I asked (last sentence in the opening post).  I'm not understanding why that is so hard for some people.



(with hands on hips, and moving head from left to right, with a word pronounced at each apex.)   HMMMMMM.......{left} I........{rt.}  don't   {left}  think   {rt.}   so!........  Nothins that black and white honey.


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## Shalimar (Aug 31, 2015)

Honey? Really? How condescending and overtly sexist. Completely inappropriate.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 31, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Honey? Really? How condescending and overtly sexist. Completely inappropriate.




I agree... but I'm not at all surprised..  You shouldn't be...  apparently it's a new day a-dawning here at SF


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## rt3 (Aug 31, 2015)

as you cut off the Hispanic in the grocery store  line and he calls you a mofo gringo in Spanish with a big smile and you reply Que dice? and his face turns white.


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## Shalimar (Aug 31, 2015)

QS I certainly hope that is not the case. It would only serve to polarise people, and create drama on the board.


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## rt3 (Aug 31, 2015)

geez !


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## applecruncher (Aug 31, 2015)

rt3 said:


> (with hands on hips, and moving head from left to right, with a word pronounced at each apex.) HMMMMMM.......{left} I........{rt.} don't {left} think {rt.} so!........ Nothins that black and white honey.



Meaning what, exactly? And I am not your honey.

(And we already know your answer to the question posed in the OP.)


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## AZ Jim (Aug 31, 2015)

Let's get our definitions to match fact.  There are only really only three recognized races.  Discussions about English, Polish, German, Russian, and all other nations are NOT racist.  It may be discrimination based upon nationality but it is not racist.  If your subject is Negroid, Mongolian, or Caucasian it is racist.  http://blog.world-mysteries.com/science/how-many-major-races-are-there-in-the-world/


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## Shalimar (Aug 31, 2015)

I believe Australoid is also considered by many to be a part of that list Jim.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 31, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I believe Australoid is also considered by many to be a part of that list Jim.



That is possible I suppose.  In my link the Australian Aborigine as a sub group of Negroid but it may be has changed.  The point is people are trying to use nationality as race and that is just wrong.


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## bill16652 (Aug 31, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> While I know there are black people who are racists, I do not believe that the only racist remarks you’re heard are from blacks. Come ON.
> 
> “PC” and age (youth) have nothing to do with the issue.


In the last 20 years it is only young blacks that I have heard use racist remarks, before that yes I heard them all the time from blacks and whites.  As to age, yes it does have something to do with it as the older blacks, at least who I am around, are wonderful and never use racist remarks but young blacks do it quite often


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