# Observations of Canadian health system



## BobF (Apr 20, 2015)

First I post a link to current health system problems and then some items I found when the US was studying health care prior to actually doing so.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/news/canadian-health-care-in-crisis/
[h=1]Canadian Health Care In Crisis[/h](The article is a bit long so I will only post a few parts.)

A letter from the Moncton Hospital to a New Brunswick heart patient in  need of an electrocardiogram said the appointment would be in three  months. It added: "If the person named on this computer-generated letter  is deceased, please accept our sincere apologies."

The patient  wasn't dead, according to the doctor who showed the letter to The  Associated Press on condition of anonymity. But there are many Canadians  who claim the long wait for the test and the frigid formality of the  letter are indicative of a health system badly in need of emergency  care.
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"It's like somebody's telling you that you can buy this car, and you've  paid for the car, but you can't have it right now," said Jane Pelton.  Rather than leave daughter Emily in pain and a knee brace, the Ottawa  family opted to pay $3,300 for arthroscopic surgery at a private clinic  in Vancouver, with no help from the government.

"Every day we're paying for health care, yet when we go to access it, it's just not there," said Pelton.
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He says he got so frustrated at the long delays to book surgeries at the  public hospitals in Vancouver that he built his own private clinic. A  leading advocate for reform, he testified last June before the Supreme  Court in a landmark appeal against a Quebec ruling upholding limits on  private care and insurance.
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And such comments that also say the Canadian health system needs redone somehow.
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Now I will post what was discovered back in 2007, about Canada's health system.   Some sounds exactly like what was complained about above.

  [FONT=&quot]http://www.progressiveu.org/071855-health-care-problems-in-canada[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Health care problems in Canada[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]By cedar sprig - Posted on March 7th, 2006[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2007/08/22/abc-glosses-over-fact-canadian-parents-flee-their-country-give-birth[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]ABC Story Ignores Reason That Canadian Mother Fled Country to Give Birth[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]By Scott Whitlock | August 22, 2007 - 17:45 ET[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]On Wednesday’s "Good Morning America," anchor Chris Cuomo completely glossed over the health care implications of a Canadian mother giving birth to quadruplets in America and not her home country. According to Cuomo, Karen Jepp and her husband, the new parents of identical quadruplets, had to be flown 300 miles from Calgary to Montana on August 16, because "every neo-natal unit in their country was too crowded to handle four preemie births." [/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/01/26/hospitals-emerg.html[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Shortage of hospital beds, cancelled surgeries common across Canada[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Last Updated: Friday, January 26, 2007 | 5:29 PM ET[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]CBC News [/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Surgeries in at least two of Canada's largest hospitals have been cancelled because of bed shortages and other problems that are affecting health-care facilities across the country, administrators say.[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071004/seattle_baby_071004/20071004?hub=Canada[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Another B.C. mom and baby sent to Seattle hospital[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Updated Thu. Oct. 4 2007 10:04 PM ET[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]CTV.ca News Staff[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Another B.C. woman who delivered a premature baby has been sent to Seattle. [/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=ef8be8af-e555-4e31-906d-8dc5f9ceec81[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]The Vancouver Sun[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Bed shortages force Canadian patients to U.S. for childbirth[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]So far this year, 35 women have been transferred to hospitals in Washington for neonatal care[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]Chantal Eustace, Vancouver Sun[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]Published: Saturday, October 06, 2007[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]VANCOUVER - Twelve hours after giving birth, Courtney Nassey of Vancouver learned there were no beds for son, Ayden, who was born six weeks premature and needed urgent attention[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/161/1/67[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Nurses rally to fight staff shortages, deteriorating morale[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]Barbara Sibbald[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Barbara Sibbald is the Associate Editor, News and Features at CMAJ.[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]An anticipated shortage of both physicians and nurses could leave the Canadian health system in critical condition early in the next century[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]<Clip>[/FONT]
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  [FONT=&quot]Overnight, the shortage changed into an apparent surplus, but it was a David Copperfield illusion. The shortage of nurses at the bedside and in clinical settings continued, and poor working conditions worsened as support staff were cut back. At the same time, wages were frozen or rolled back. Dissatisfaction escalated. Not surprisingly, enrollment in nursing schools began to decline.[/FONT]

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## SeaBreeze (Apr 20, 2015)

Obamacare is better than what we had, single payer would be ideal.  21 ways that the Canadian health care system is better than the ACA...http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11...-health-care-system-is-better-than-obamacare/


*Number 21:*
In Canada, everyone is covered automatically at birth – everybody in, nobody out.
In the United States, under Obamacare, 31 million Americans will still be uninsured by 2023 and millions more will remain underinsured.

*Number 20:*
In Canada, the health system is designed to put people, not profits, first.
In the United States, Obamacare will do little to curb insurance industry profits and will actually enhance insurance industry profits.

*Number 19:*
In Canada, coverage is not tied to a job or dependent on your income – rich and poor are in the same system, the best guaranty of quality.
In the United States, under Obamacare, much still depends on your job or income. Lose your job or lose your income, and you might lose your existing health insurance or have to settle for lesser coverage.

*Number 18:*
In Canada, health care coverage stays with you for your entire life.
In the United States, under Obamacare, for tens of millions of Americans, health care coverage stays with you for as long as you can afford your share.

*Number 17:*
In Canada, you can freely choose your doctors and hospitals and keep them. There are no lists of “in-network” vendors and no extra hidden charges for going “out of network.”
In the United States, under Obamacare, the in-network list of places where you can get treated is shrinking – thus restricting freedom of choice – and if you want to go out of network, you pay for it.

*Number 16:*
In Canada, the health care system is funded by income, sales and corporate taxes that, combined, are much lower than what Americans pay in premiums.
In the United States, under Obamacare, for thousands of Americans, it’s pay or die – if you can’t pay, you die. That’s why many thousands will still die every year under Obamacare from lack of health insurance to get diagnosed and treated in time.

*Number 15:*
In Canada, there are no complex hospital or doctor bills. In fact, usually you don’t even see a bill.
In the United States, under Obamacare, hospital and doctor bills will still be terribly complex, making it impossible to discover the many costly overcharges.

*Number 14:*
In Canada, costs are controlled. Canada pays 10 percent of its GDP for its health care system, covering everyone.
In the United States, under Obamacare, costs continue to skyrocket. The U.S. currently pays 18 percent of its GDP and still doesn’t cover tens of millions of people.

*Number 13:*
In Canada, it is unheard of for anyone to go bankrupt due to health care costs.
In the United States, under Obamacare, health care driven bankruptcy will continue to plague Americans.
*Number 12:*
In Canada, simplicity leads to major savings in administrative costs and overhead.
In the United States, under Obamacare, complexity will lead to ratcheting up administrative costs and overhead.

*Number 11:*
In Canada, when you go to a doctor or hospital the first thing they ask you is: “What’s wrong?”
In the United States, the first thing they ask you is: “What kind of insurance do you have?”

*Number 10:*
In Canada, the government negotiates drug prices so they are more affordable.
In the United States, under Obamacare, Congress made it specifically illegal for the government to negotiate drug prices for volume purchases, so they remain unaffordable.

*Number 9:*
In Canada, the government health care funds are not profitably diverted to the top one percent.
In the United States, under Obamacare, health care funds will continue to flow to the top. In 2012, CEOs at six of the largest insurance companies in the U.S. received a total of $83.3 million in pay, plus benefits.

*Number 8:*
In Canada, there are no necessary co-pays or deductibles.
In the United States, under Obamacare, the deductibles and co-pays will continue to be unaffordable for many millions of Americans.

*Number 7:*
In Canada, the health care system contributes to social solidarity and national pride.
In the United States, Obamacare is divisive, with rich and poor in different systems and tens of millions left out or with sorely limited benefits.

*Number 6:*
In Canada, delays in health care are not due to the cost of insurance.
In the United States, under Obamacare, patients without health insurance or who are underinsured will continue to delay or forgo care and put their lives at risk.

*Number 5:*
In Canada, nobody dies due to lack of health insurance.
In the United States, under Obamacare, many thousands will continue to die every year due to lack of health insurance.

*Number 4:*
In Canada, an increasing majority supports their health care system, which costs half as much, per person, as in the United States. And in Canada, everyone is covered.
In the United States, a majority – many for different reasons – oppose Obamacare.

*Number 3:*
In Canada, the tax payments to fund the health care system are progressive – the lowest 20 percent pays 6 percent of income into the system while the highest 20 percent pays 8 percent.
In the United States, under Obamacare, the poor pay a larger share of their income for health care than the affluent.

*Number 2:*
In Canada, the administration of the system is simple. You get a health care card when you are born. And you swipe it when you go to a doctor or hospital. End of story.
In the United States, Obamacare’s 2,500 pages plus regulations (the Canadian Medicare Bill was 13 pages) is so complex that then Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said before passage “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.”

*Number 1:*
In Canada, the majority of citizens love their health care system.
In the United States, the majority of citizens, physicians, and nurses prefer the Canadian type system – single-payer, free choice of doctor and hospital , everybody in, nobody out.

For more information see Single Payer Action at www.singlepayeraction.org.


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## BobF (Apr 20, 2015)

A week ago my wife had a heart attack at home.    I was here and managed to call emergency before it was too late.   Today we had a conference with some after care staff folks.   My wife will be transferred later this week to a after care place where she will be helped to walk, dress, and develop better help.   This agent looked at our records and said, you are lucky to have this extra insurance as it covers so much more and for longer times.   So I wonder what my wife would be allowed to do if only having Obama care coverage.   

I do think that once Obama is gone we will need to sit down and revisit a lot of things and get them better.


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## Shalimar (Apr 20, 2015)

Thank you, SeaBreeze, could not have said it better myself.


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## BobF (Apr 20, 2015)

Just read most of the many ways Canadian health care is better than the US.   Some are questionable and one for sure is wrong.

*Number 11:*
In Canada, when you go to a doctor or hospital the first thing they ask you is: “What’s wrong?”
In the United States, the first thing they ask you is: “What kind of insurance do you have?”

The answer is wrong as the first thing they must ask is "What is wrong?" and they start your fix immediately.   If it is not a medical urgency, then they ask personal questions and try to determing who will pay, Obama care or some other insurance or both.

I felt some others were questionable but not going to raise a fuss about them.   How do I know about the reactions?   A week back on Sunday my wife had a heart attack and the medical care started right here in my house with no questions asked.   Later I went to the hospital to see my wife and they knew by her age that she at least had Obama care.   Now in past experience prior to Obama care we have had to go to hospitals for emergency care.   I had sever problems and the hospital took me right in and started checking me out no questions asked.   Later as they stabilized my position they started asking the wife for papers about me.   I don't remember this but the wife and attendants would tell me when I was awake.   It has always been the way our hospitals have worked where ever I have lived.   

Start treatments first, ask questions later.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 20, 2015)

BobF said:


> A week ago my wife had a heart attack at home.    I was here and managed to call emergency before it was too late.   Today we had a conference with some after care staff folks.   My wife will be transferred later this week to a after care place where she will be helped to walk, dress, and develop better help.   This agent looked at our records and said, you are lucky to have this extra insurance as it covers so much more and for longer times.   So I wonder what my wife would be allowed to do if only having Obama care coverage.
> 
> I do think that once Obama is gone we will need to sit down and revisit a lot of things and get them better.



I'm glad to hear you were there for your wife Bob, and I hope she fully recovers, I wish her the best.  I think the ACA would have taken care of her also, but luckily I haven't had any serious health emergencies to compare stories.  Of course people with pre-existing heart conditions are grateful for Obamacare coverage, in the past they would be denied.  When Obama is out of office, I can only hope that they move forward to single payer health care.


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## Don M. (Apr 20, 2015)

"Start Treatments first, ask questions later". 

Yes, that's right...However, the most important part of those questions pertains to the patients insurance coverage and financial status.  When a critically ill person enters care in the US, the doctors/hospitals will do a "financial profile" on that individual.  Then, they will take any and all "heroic" measures to maintain a heartbeat and brainwave...until they have milked every possible dollar out of that persons insurance and estate.  Once it appears that the Money Pipeline is just about dried up, only then will they tell the relatives that it is time to "pull the plug".  That is why it is so important for people to have Living Wills and Powers of Attorney...unless they want to be used as a Guinea Pig by our Health Care Industry.  

According to data at the CDC website, the majority of our nations health care costs are spent on those in the final weeks and months of their lives....and does nothing but delay the inevitable for a short period of time.  Medicare is far and away the largest single expenditure in the Federal budget, and unless there is a major change in our current system, it will continue to bankrupt thousands every year, and eventually drive our nation to the brink.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 21, 2015)

I don't know what the differences are between the Canadian system and UK but I am VERY grateful that I'm growing old with the UK NHS!  Money is never, ever an issue for a patient.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 21, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I don't know what the differences are between the Canadian system and UK but I am VERY grateful that I'm growing old with the UK NHS!  Money is never, ever an issue for a patient.



And I am grateful for our Obamacare.. My son is now finally getting the care he has needed for 15 years but was unable to receive.. Anyone wishing to take it away should rot in hell as they are hardly what I would consider deserving of anything else.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 21, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> And I am grateful for our Obamacare.. My son is not finally getting the care he has needed for 15 years but was unable to receive.. Anyone wishing to take it away should rot in hell as they are hardly what I would consider deserving of anything else.



Is it possible for Obamacare to be rescinded?  I've heard many good stories as a result of ACA including those with pre-existing conditions who can now be insured.


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## BobF (Apr 21, 2015)

I don't think it is possible to eliminate government supported health care but it is and will be possible to make changes to it and call it something else.   If you read some of the inputs on this topic there are several inputs that are proposed and likely may make it into our health systems.   Call it what you want but there are things better for some and worse for others and changes will be made as time passes.

I for one have some extra health insurances that I bought myself and the hospital staff where my wife is now located said it was good of us as that gives us lots of more coverage for my wife than if we just had Obama care.

So from our experience if you really want more services or longer time spans it is important to buy your own insurances to supplement Obama care.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 21, 2015)

BobF said:


> I don't think it is possible to eliminate government supported health care but it is and will be possible to make changes to it and call it something else.   If you read some of the inputs on this topic there are several inputs that are proposed and likely may make it into our health systems.   Call it what you want but there are things better for some and worse for others and changes will be made as time passes.
> 
> I for one have some extra health insurances that I bought myself and the hospital staff where my wife is now located said it was good of us as that gives us lots of more coverage for my wife than if we just had Obama care.
> 
> So from our experience if you really want more services or longer time spans it is important to buy your own insurances to supplement Obama care.



Given the chance the republicans did absolutely NOTHING about our health care problems and likewise given the chance they will seek to either eliminate it to (this is a joke) come up with a "better" plan or they will so dilute it as to make it worthless.


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## BobF (Apr 21, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Given the chance the republicans did absolutely NOTHING about our health care problems and likewise given the chance they will seek to either eliminate it to (this is a joke) come up with a "better" plan or they will so dilute it as to make it worthless.



One reason the Republicans did not help put together the Obama care plans was because it was done behind closed doors and they were not allowed to contribute by the hard headed Democrats.

If you read back you will find inputs from Democrats that want things changed in the way Obama care is being run.

Always room for improvements no matter who put something together.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 21, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Given the chance the republicans did absolutely NOTHING about our health care problems and likewise given the chance they will seek to either eliminate it to (this is a joke) come up with a "better" plan or they will so dilute it as to make it worthless.



I have yet to hear of the REPUBLICAN plan to replace the ACA...  have you?   ONe would think that with all the viotrol over the last 6 years we would have had some clue about what they wanted..... yet... nada.. Unless I missed it that is..


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## AZ Jim (Apr 21, 2015)

BobF said:


> One reason the Republicans did not help put together the Obama care plans was because it was done behind closed doors and they were not allowed to contribute by the hard headed Democrats.
> 
> If you read back you will find inputs from Democrats that want things changed in the way Obama care is being run.
> 
> Always room for improvements no matter who put something together.



No No!!  Back up.  Bush had eight years in office, did he propose a health plan?  Let's face facts here, republicans have become obstructionist pure and simple.  Our President (yes OUR), paved the way to help America catch up with the rest of the world and  he did it without republican help.  If you can't see that......I pity all drivers on any street you might drive.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 21, 2015)

Come on BobF, let's get your reply.


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## Shalimar (Apr 21, 2015)

Since this thread is about Canadian health care, just thought would mention, that for the most part, it works very well. I am very grateful to know that should I become  ill, I will receive treatment and medication whether or not I have money. Works for me.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 21, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Since this thread is about Canadian health care, just thought would mention, that for the most part, it works very well. I am very grateful to know that should I become  ill, I will receive treatment and medication whether or not I have money. Works for me.



Good for you Shalimar.  I too am glad you and other of our close neighbors north have what you do.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 21, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Since this thread is about Canadian health care, just thought would mention, that for the most part, it works very well. I am very grateful to know that should I become  ill, I will receive treatment and medication whether or not I have money. Works for me.



How I wish we had that system here..  It's positively shameful that we are the only developed country in the world that does not provide healthcare to it's citizens and where some people acutally die for lack of it.   But we are so far behind the rest of the world in providing for our citizens.   Seems to me that if other countries can do it... why can't the "supposedly" greatest country in the world..?


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## AZ Jim (Apr 21, 2015)

Where's BobF with his defense of position?  Come out, come out Bob F.


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## BobF (Apr 21, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> No No!!  Back up.  Bush had eight years in office, did he propose a health plan?  Let's face facts here, republicans have become obstructionist pure and simple.  Our President (yes OUR), paved the way to help America catch up with the rest of the world and  he did it without republican help.  If you can't see that......I pity all drivers on any street you might drive.



Absolutely true AZ Jim.   There have been plans all along to get more help to the poor for health care.  What you are doing though is to deny that with Obama he wanted no help from others that did not want a completely out of control health care plan as we have today.   So start reading these post where your good ol buddies of the Democrat party have said they want to change what Obama has pushed on us with this Obama care program.   It will not get fixed by either Democrats or Republicans as long as Obama remains.   Be patient and in a year and a half Obama will be gone and then we will see how either or both parties will start to fix some of the mistakes made in this program.   

Trying to push this unrest from both parties back by saying it was Bush's fault is just plain not seeing the truth in what is happening to the US.    Is this Obama plan part of the increase in our debt under Obama, from less than $10 trillion to over $18 trillion.   Very likely it is.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 21, 2015)

BobF said:


> Absolutely true AZ Jim.   There have been plans all along to get more help to the poor for health care.  What you are doing though is to deny that with Obama he wanted no help from others that did not want a completely out of control health care plan as we have today.   So start reading these post where your good ol buddies of the Democrat party have said they want to change what Obama has pushed on us with this Obama care program.   It will not get fixed by either Democrats or Republicans as long as Obama remains.   Be patient and in a year and a half Obama will be gone and then we will see how either or both parties will start to fix some of the mistakes made in this program.
> 
> Trying to push this unrest from both parties back by saying it was Bush's fault is just plain not seeing the truth in what is happening to the US.    Is this Obama plan part of the increase in our debt under Obama, from less than $10 trillion to over $18 trillion.   Very likely it is.



Sorry Bob, I don't have no idea what you are trying to say.  You lost me at "there have been plans to help the poor with healthcare".  Really?  I'd just love to hear about those "plans".  Also the ACA is for ALL Americans.  If you had any real answer to this it would be interesting.  Step up or step out.


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## Shirley (Apr 21, 2015)

I have relatives who live in Canada. They say the health care is free and is excellent if you need emergency care.  But if it's something like a knee replacement, etc, the wait can be as long as six months.


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## Debby (Apr 21, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> Obamacare is better than what we had, single payer would be ideal.  21 ways that the Canadian health care system is better than the ACA...http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11...-health-care-system-is-better-than-obamacare/
> 
> 
> *Number 21:*
> ...




Interesting comparison SeaBreeze.  In going through the points, I would have to disagree with #17 for one.  My daughter lives on PEI and there is a waiting list to get a doctor assigned to you and you can be on the list for a couple years at least.  Nova Scotia where I live isn’t much better.  But I think that’s more a problem of doctors not wanting to locate in the Maritime Provinces.  Might be wrong on that and if another one of the Canadians on here would like to jump in to provide another point of view…..anybody?

Overall though, I like our system and especially when our youngest moved out and was learning to live on her minimum wage job and the government scaled her insurance premium to how much her wage was at the time.  That might be one thing that was missing from your list…..in some provinces you do have to pay an insurance premium.  Like in BC, if you make over $30,000, a single will pay $72, a couple pays $130.50 and a family will pay $144 per month.  In Nova Scotia, we have no monthly premium but we pay higher taxes to cover it.


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## BobF (Apr 21, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Sorry Bob, I don't have no idea what you are trying to say.  You lost me at "there have been plans to help the poor with healthcare".  Really?  I'd just love to hear about those "plans".  Also the ACA is for ALL Americans.  If you had any real answer to this it would be interesting.  Step up or step out.



Only because you fail to read with an open mind AZ Jim.   I have posted comments that refer to others also posting on this thread but you apparently do not read but what you want to read.   Obama care is going to be changed one day, but I am sure we will need to wait till Obama has left.   Don't tell me to write another medical bill, I can't and neither can you.   Read rather than bluster and you might start understanding what some other, Democrat, posters are also saying.


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## Debby (Apr 21, 2015)

And by the way Bob, hope your wife is doing better.  That must have been so scary for both of you!


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## Cookie (Apr 21, 2015)

Debby said:


> Interesting comparison SeaBreeze.  In going through the points, I would have to disagree with #17 for one.  My daughter lives on PEI and there is a waiting list to get a doctor assigned to you and you can be on the list for a couple years at least.  Nova Scotia where I live isn’t much better.  But I think that’s more a problem of doctors not wanting to locate in the Maritime Provinces.  Might be wrong on that and if another one of the Canadians on here would like to jump in to provide another point of view…..anybody?
> 
> Overall though, I like our system and especially when our youngest moved out and was learning to live on her minimum wage job and the government scaled her insurance premium to how much her wage was at the time.  That might be one thing that was missing from your list…..in some provinces you do have to pay an insurance premium.  Like in BC, if you make over $30,000, a single will pay $72, a couple pays $130.50 and a family will pay $144 per month.  In Nova Scotia, we have no monthly premium but we pay higher taxes to cover it.



In Toronto, Ontario I have never had to wait to be assigned a new GP, we can find our own, and although many doctors may not be taking new patients, there are many more young doctors who do. I can see the specialist of my choice, with a referral from my GP. Most drugs are covered for seniors 65+, just pay a very low dispensing fee ($4.11) per item. We never have to pay a penny for doctor's visits or hospital care as OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan) is completely covered.  My relatives in B.C. do pay a monthly premium based on income, however.


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## Debby (Apr 22, 2015)

All I can say Cookie is don't move to PEI because it's very different there for medical care.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 22, 2015)

Healthcare is never FREE!  Your taxes pay for it. It is free at the point of service. In Scotland and Wales prescriptions are at no charge to patients.  In England there is a small fee but it's free to over 60's, children, low income, etc.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 22, 2015)

I think a lot of the opposition to a NHS being formed in the US is the preoccupation Americans seem to have with someone else getting something for nothing.  It's become a national sickness..   I believe it's been fostered and fanned by the Oligarchs looking to gain profits from the privatization of just about everything, including our Medicare and Social Security systems.    They are thrilled to see Americans more concerned with what someone ahead of them is buying in a check-out line and how they are paying for it, than they are about their dwindling incomes and savings.  Instead of putting the blame where it belongs, at the feet of Big Banks and Wall Street, they blame a single mom trying to feed her kids... or their neighbor for getting to see a doctor for free.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 22, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I think a lot of the opposition to a NHS being formed in the US is the preoccupation Americans seem to have with someone else getting something for nothing.  It's become a national sickness..   I believe it's been fostered and fanned by the Oligarchs looking to gain profits from the privatization of just about everything, including our Medicare and Social Security systems.    They are thrilled to see Americans more concerned with what someone ahead of them is buying in a check-out line and how they are paying for it, than they are about their dwindling incomes and savings.  Instead of putting the blame where it belongs, at the feet of Big Banks and Wall Street, they blame a single mom trying to feed her kids... or their neighbor for getting to see a doctor for free.



Totally agree.  Well said.  

The US is the only country in the developed world that does not see healthcare as a right.  Why is education a right, but not healthcare?


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## QuickSilver (Apr 22, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Totally agree.  Well said.
> 
> The US is the only country in the developed world that does not see healthcare as a right.  Why is education a right, but not healthcare?




Education is not a right in the States...  Look at what is being done to the Public School system.   Money that should be spent on insuring  all children get an equal education is now going to privately run charter schools, who, because they are private, have the ability to pick and choose students based on performance, in order their scores and rating remain high.  This means the poor and troubled kids are left with substandard educations at best.. and can be almost assured of dropping out before graduation.    Look what is being done to teachers.    Look at the proposal by President Obama, of giving free tuition to a two year college program and how it was shot down.  Again... over the concern that someone else is getting something they aren't.   My feeling is it's all part of the plan for the wealthy and the children of the wealthy to succeed, and for the other 90% to be slave labor, whose only use is to make MORE profit for the rich.


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## Cookie (Apr 22, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Healthcare is never FREE!  Your taxes pay for it. It is free at the point of service. In Scotland and Wales prescriptions are at no charge to patients.  In England there is a small fee but it's free to over 60's, children, low income, etc.



Exactly, we don't consider it free, like we're getting something for nothing.  We pay for every bit of it out of our taxes, which can be pretty high, but don't get me started on income tax.


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