# 23 Americans said to be on the Malaysia flight that just went down !



## Davey Jones (Jul 17, 2014)

*Oh great!! Another  Malaysia airliner down.*

Flying at 30,000 feet either crashed or shot down?

A Malaysian airliner reportedly with 295 people on board has crashed in Ukraine near the Russian border, on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lump


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## Mrs. Robinson (Jul 17, 2014)

I just heard this. Thought for a second they were talking about the other one. The plot thickens??


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## Davey Jones (Jul 17, 2014)

up to date...
REPORT: Was flying 33,000 feet when hit by missile fired from Buk launcher...AND

reportedly *shot down* in *Ukraine.*


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## Happyflowerlady (Jul 17, 2014)

This mornings news reports are of another Maylasia flight; this one crashed between Russia and the Ukraine.
The first reports are that the plane was at cruising altitude, about 33,000 feet; and they think it was shot down with a sophisticated missle that probably was Russian made.
The flight left from Amsterdam, heading for Kuala-Lampur this morning. Since my daughter was also flying out of Amsterdam today, I started paying close attention to what they were talking about; but there was no reason for her to be on a flight going to Kuala-Lampur. 
Now, they are reporting that there were 23 Americans listed on the flight record. The President is supposed to be speaking about it soon, from what they are reporting on the news.


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## Ina (Jul 17, 2014)

HFL, Do you think it is connected to the flight that went missing? :wave:


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## kcvet (Jul 17, 2014)

Ukraine claims missle was Russian. crash area 10 miles wide


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## Meanderer (Jul 17, 2014)

The good news is they know where it is.


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## Happyflowerlady (Jul 17, 2014)

People everywhere are wondering that, Ina, from what i have been reading. i have no idea how it would be related, but it is strange that they were both the exact same kind of Boeing 777. 
This one apparently went off of the normal flight pattern to cross into the war zone, and it is not known why it would do that.
I have seen some strange things being reported already.  They claim to have already found a piece of fuselage with a 2" hole that they said was made by the missile that hit the plane; but other say that it would not just have left a neat little round hole, but torn into the metal on the plane. 
Also, they have pictures of the passports, and they all look fresh and new, not torn, burned or bloody like you would expect to see. And how did they find them all so fast with bodies strewn over 9 miles of wreckage, and in pieces ??


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 17, 2014)

23 Americans, up to 10 Britons and 80 children according to local sources.


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## kcvet (Jul 17, 2014)

let's see who get's the black box's


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## Happyflowerlady (Jul 17, 2014)

kcvet said:


> let's see who get's the black box's


I think they already said that Moscow has the black box. Apparently, there was a Russian news crew on-scene right after the plane crashed (how strange is that ?), and they have footage showing the bodies strewn all over (too gruesome, I stopped watching when they got to that part), and much of the wreckage didn't burn.
They think it split up mid-air, people, luggage, etc. all tumbled out, and the parts of the wreckage that had no fire just fell to the ground over several miles. The part that they show burning  appears to be the front where the engines must have caught fire. 
If the black box was in the tail, they would have been able to get to it right away, as soon as they located the tail section of the plane.

Another interesting coincidence is that today is the anniversary of that TWA flight that was shot down here in the US several years ago; and even though people actually saw the missiles, the government denied that it was a missile.
This time, they were saying it was shot down before anyone had time to even get to the wreckage, let alone investigate it.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 17, 2014)

My question is why was that airliner flying over the most dangerious place on earth?


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## Fern (Jul 17, 2014)

Here's the answer. 


> While the militants accused Ukrainian jets of shooting the plane down,  separatists have said that they took control of such a missile system  last month and had used it to shoot down a Ukrainian military transport  plane that was destroyed on Monday.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 17, 2014)

Here's another one...they say the missle that was fired was ment for a military plane that was also flying in that area.
So the missle made a mistake and went for the airliner instead???


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## Davey Jones (Jul 17, 2014)

kcvet said:


> let's see who get's the black box's



According to sources the Russians got both black boxes. So much for finding what actually happened.


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## kcvet (Jul 17, 2014)

and what was this one doing flying over a war zone ???


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## Warrigal (Jul 17, 2014)

I don't think this incident is related to previous ones. The flight path is perfectly normal. To keep fuel consumption to a minimum, airlines fly along great circle routes, the shortest distance between airports. Qantas has made the decision not to fly over this particular conflict zone but Malaysian airlines did not because the route was declared safe by the relevant authorities. 

A Ukrainian military troop carrying plane was shot down about a week ago by the rebels and in all likelihood they thought this passenger plane was another one.
They weren't targeting Americans because the passengers were a mixed lot, Dutch, UK, Australians, Indonesians etc. We believe there were 27 Aussies on board (according to the Dutch in Amsterdam) but there are still a lot of passengers not yet identified by nationality.

No-one is claiming responsibility but intelligence is indicating that it was the rebels using equipment they captured from the Ukrainians or supplied by the Russians. 



> *Malaysia Airlines MH17: Phone tap reveals pro-Russian separatists claiming responsibility for passenger plane downed over Ukraine*
> 
> Updated     5 minutes ago
> 
> ...



Update - 153 passengers were Dutch and included a number of AIDS experts and researchers heading to Melbourne for a conference.


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## Happyflowerlady (Jul 17, 2014)

One of the earlier reports out said that Vladimer Putin was in a plane that went over the same area at about the same time, and the report suggested that the missile was intended to hit Putin's plane  instead.
This appears to be one of those reports that comes out early on, and then vanishes as the story progresses.

There certainly are some interesting coincidences going on though. The "numbers people" are all over this because of there being so many "7's" coming up with the crash.  The first Maylasia flight was flight #370, crashed on March 7th, was a Boeing 777. 
The one today was flight #17, crashed 7/17/14, was a Boeing 777. The number of passengers was 295. 2+9+5=16, 1+6=7.
I am not into the numbers stuff, but many people are, and they say it is always significant. 

Then there is the Dutch passenger who posted a picture of the plane before they left Amsterdam, "in case it disappeared".

The Russians had a news crew in the area when the plane went down.

President Obama was on the phone with Russian President Putin when the plane went down, and they were discussing it before the first news reports came out.

The White House was on lockdown for some kind of threat immediately after the crash.

The wreckage was strewn for miles, but they found all of the passports (in perfect condition) and had posted pictures of them within an hour or so after the crash.

Radio contact was apparently lost about 1/2 hour before the plane crashed, and it was off-course at the time it was targeted.


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## Warrigal (Jul 17, 2014)

> Then there is the Dutch passenger who posted a picture of the plane before they left Amsterdam, "in case it disappeared".


I think that was an ironic reference to the Malaysian airline that went off course and disappeared. He wasn't being prescient. He was making a joke.


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## Warrigal (Jul 17, 2014)

Here is a report that is reasonably up to date, and which does not contain unsubstantiated rumour



> *Malaysia Airlines flight MH17: what we know*
> 
> 
> *Map: *        Ukraine
> ...


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## Justme (Jul 18, 2014)

It seems crazy that any passenger plane should fly over Ukraine!


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## Pappy (Jul 18, 2014)

Good, accurate info Warri. Thank you for that. American TV reporting was getting absolutly crazy on all the speculating that was going on. One reporter actually said that if a missile had struck the plane, would it break apart and fall from the sky?


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## Jackie22 (Jul 18, 2014)

Pappy said:


> Good, accurate info Warri. Thank you for that. American TV reporting was getting absolutly crazy on all the speculating that was going on. One reporter actually said that if a missile had struck the plane, would it break apart and fall from the sky?



I agree, Pappy.  Our media has turned into a 'National Enquirer' copycat,  they are the root of problems in this country.


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## Rainee (Jul 18, 2014)

Good post Warrigal I haven`t seen any of those posts you put on so its great to get the news like that .. thanks 
for sharing.. its just a dreadful thing to happen so close to the other one..


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## Warrigal (Jul 18, 2014)

Talk over here is about what action should be taken. The US has imposed sanctions on individual Russians but apparently is now considering extending them to financial institutions which will hurt more. The EU countries have so far held back from sanctions because they are dependent on Russian oil for their energy needs but it looks like they might now come in line with the Americans.

We are due to host the G20 later this year and there is some discussion about whether Putin should be banned from attending.  One way or another it might now be possible to either prevent the Russians from supplying the rebels with arms or for the West to give aid to the Ukrainian government. Somehow neither option fills me with confidence. I just hope this isn't how WW III begins.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 18, 2014)

kcvet said:


> and what was this one doing flying over a war zone ???



Proobably to save fuel cost instead of going around that country.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 18, 2014)

re:because the route was declared safe by the relevant authorities. 


I would think if there is a war going on below you,the airline would not fly over it but around it.
To save millions in fuel cost rather then worry about your passengers,I believe was the management decision.


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## kcvet (Jul 18, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Proobably to save fuel cost instead of going around that country.



did they save any ???


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## Warrigal (Jul 18, 2014)

No doubt, Davey. They are experiencing financial difficulties after the other plane, MH370, went missing and have had to lower their fares. Fuel costs would have been the deciding factor but it was Thought that planes above 30,000 ft could not be hit by missiles. Now they know better.

This is a very sad report



> A Queensland family who lost relatives on doomed Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 are in mourning again after losing more family members on MH17 in Ukraine. Irene and George Burrows from Biloela, south of Rockhampton, are still mourning their son Rodney and his wife Mary who were on flight MH370, which disappeared without trace over the southern Indian Ocean in March.
> 
> But tragedy has gripped their family a second time.
> 
> ...


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## Davey Jones (Jul 18, 2014)

kcvet said:


> did they save any ???




Im guessing a few thousand gallons if they can dig it up.


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## kcvet (Jul 18, 2014)

lets do the math. 239 dead on the first one. now 298 on this one. that's a grand total of 537 dead inside of 4 mons. yes sir fly malay airlines. the safest airline flying


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## Davey Jones (Jul 18, 2014)

re:but it was Thought that planes above 30,000 ft could not be hit by missiles. Now they know better.

 The plane was at 32,000 feet and the rocket was launched 30 miles away near the border.
They say the rocket doesn't actually have to hit the plane to bring it down,just be near it and explode by electronic detection.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 18, 2014)

Here is something weird....

TWA 800 was "allegedly" shot down by a missile on 17 July 96.


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## kcvet (Jul 18, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Im guessing a few thousand gallons if they can dig it up.



537 dead inside a 4 mons. that might be a new record.


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## JustBonee (Jul 18, 2014)

I would not book a flight on Malaysia Airlines anytime soon.  Things happen in 3s.


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## kcvet (Jul 18, 2014)

a good chance they may file for bankruptcy. safer to take the A train


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## WhatInThe (Jul 18, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> No doubt, Davey. They are experiencing financial difficulties after the other plane, MH370, went missing and have had to lower their fares. Fuel costs would have been the deciding factor but it was Thought that planes above 30,000 ft could not be hit by missiles. Now they know better.
> 
> This is a very sad report



I think 30,000 might be the limit if not less for hand held shoulder fired missiles. This Russian rocket is a completely different animal because it's exactly that- a small rocket which has to be launched from a platform and not fired from a device.

Should add I thought I heard that the Russians gave or sold these anti aircraft weapons to the separatists with minimal training ie the radar/tracking system that finds the target. You need extra training just to distinguish targets.


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## Justme (Jul 18, 2014)

Bonnie said:


> I would not book a flight on Malaysia Airlines anytime soon.  Things happen in 3s.



That is a silly superstition!


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## JustBonee (Jul 18, 2014)

Justme said:


> That is a silly superstition!




Sez in the following,  that  it's in my psyche  ...

http://scottcgruber.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Do-Bad-Things-Happen-In-Threes


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## Justme (Jul 18, 2014)

Apparently no US citizens were on the plane.


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## Misty (Jul 18, 2014)

*President Obama Says at Least One American On Board Downed Malaysia Airline Plane in Ukraine*

   Jul 18, 2014, 2:39 PM ET
 By COLLEEN CURRY and LUIS MARTINEZ

 At least one American was on board  Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 carrying 298 people when it was shot down by a missile over Ukraine, President Obama said today. 

The State Department identified the victim as Quinn Lucas Schansman, a US-Dutch citizen. 


Obama also called for an immediate ceasefire in the region among  Ukraine, Russia and Russian-backed separatists in order to conduct an  investigation into the crash site in eastern Ukraine. 

 "We know [Russian separatists] have received steady support from Russia,  which includes heavy weapons and training ... and includes  anti-aircraft weapons," Obama said. 


 U.S. officials said earlier today that intelligence showed nothing that  definitively links Russia to the training of those who launched the  missile on Thursday, U.S. officials told ABC News. 

But officials did say that based on preliminary intelligence, they  believe the missile was an SA-11 and that they have reports showing an  explosion in the air following the missile launch. 

 In addition, an official said the missile was fired inside Ukraine in a  territory controlled by Russian separatists. Ukrainian authorities told  U.S. Embassy officials Thursday that debris was spread out over a  10-mile path near the town of Hrabove in the Donetsk region of eastern  Ukraine. 

http://abcnews.go.com/International...wned-malaysia-airline-plane/story?id=24612351


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## Warrigal (Jul 18, 2014)

The Dutch have taken the biggest hit. I think the latest figure is 169 and I've heard that there were 80 children on board. 

The global AIDS community is in total shock because senior researchers have been lost. The conference is still going ahead but everyone is shattered by what has happened.


Memorial services have begun over here for the victims, several of which are much loved teachers. One was a senior nun from a Sydney catholic school, another a Year 8 co-ordinator at a Melbourne public school. Another couple were retired teachers from Queensland. Not the sort of people you expect to be caught up in a war but I suppose this is the reality of every war. It is only where it comes close to home, not in the geographical sense but is the emotional sense, that the meaningless horror of it all begins to sink in.


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## kcvet (Jul 18, 2014)

Justme said:


> Apparently no US citizens were on the plane.



at least 23


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## Fern (Jul 18, 2014)

Three Aus. kids & their grandfather also on the plane, returning from the Netherlands.
One New Zealander.


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## Warrigal (Jul 18, 2014)

kcvet said:


> at least 23



Are you sure of that figure? Latest info is one US-Dutch citizen.



> *Downed Jet Claimed Victims From 11 Countries*
> 
> THE HAGUE, Netherlands — Jul 18, 2014, 2:27 PM ET
> By MIKE CORDER Associated Press
> ...



Another source confirms one Dutch-US citizen



> Obama said that at least one American was among those killed in the crash. He later identified the man as Quinn Lucas Schansman, a dual Dutch-U.S. citizen.
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com.au/obama-statement-ukraine-mh-17-crash-2014-7


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## Misty (Jul 18, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Are you sure of that figure? Latest info is one US-Dutch citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> Another source confirms one Dutch-US citizen




President Obama said today, there was one Dutch-US citizen too. Dame Warrigal.....The State Department identified the victim as Quinn Lucas Schansman, a US-Dutch citizen.


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## Warrigal (Jul 18, 2014)

There's a lot of background to the Russia Ukraine situation that is not being discussed. I haven't got a link to hand but apparently Putin made some concessions to NATO? EU? in return for an assurance that they would not make any moves eastward. The overtures by Ukraine to join the EU were seen by Russia as a double cross, hence the annexing of Crimea and the current rebellion in Ukraine. He's reclaiming parts of the old USSR that are ethnically Russian.

Local disputes like this one have a tendency to blow up into much bigger wars. I hope everyone stays calm and that WW III can be avoided.


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## kcvet (Jul 18, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Are you sure of that figure? Latest info is one US-Dutch citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> Another source confirms one Dutch-US citizen



that's what they said at first. now the say 1 American


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## Warrigal (Jul 18, 2014)

The first report didn't come from the State Department. It was a Reuters report emanating from Ukraine. Amsterdam said that none of the passengers were travelling on US passports. Unfortunately a lot of news media went off half cocked and started beating up Obama for not doing anything.


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## Justme (Jul 19, 2014)

It would have suited the Government in Ukraine if US citizens had been on board that flight, as they would have hoped the US would go in mob handed to avenge their loss!


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## zuzu (Jul 19, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> The first report didn't come from the State Department. It was a Reuters report emanating from Ukraine. Amsterdam said that none of the passengers were travelling on US passports. Unfortunately a lot of news media went off half cocked and started beating up Obama for not doing anything.



Thank you Dame Warrigal for all your updates..


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## Warrigal (Jul 19, 2014)

I'd have been very surprised to find many Americans travelling from Amsterdam to Melbourne via Kuala Lumpur. It's not logical. US citizens coming to the HIV/AIDS conference would probably have come across the Pacific via Hawaii.


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## kcvet (Jul 19, 2014)

_Reuters is the mouth piece for Hamas and hezbollah_


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## WhatInThe (Jul 19, 2014)

If it weren't so tragic some of the stuff coming from the pro Russian separatists actions and speech would be comical. Umm, took the black boxes to help the investigation? Then I hear they claim that many dead bodies look they had been killed days earlier? Any one who thinks the Cold War was a joke just look at the product that calls itself modern day Russia or Russian because it is directly affected by the actions of the old communist USSR & mindset.


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## Warrigal (Jul 19, 2014)

kcvet said:


> _Reuters is the mouth piece for Hamas and hezbollah_



I'm not sure about that link with Hamas and Hezbollah but the early reports cited sources within the Ukraine. 
The report was repeated by many American news outlets, including the NYPost, July 17.


> *23 Americans aboard jet shot down from 33,000 feet over Ukraine**
> By Bob Fredericks and Sophia Rosenbaum
> *


The Amsterdam sources were much more reliable.


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## Warrigal (Jul 19, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> If it weren't so tragic some of the stuff coming from the pro Russian separatists actions and speech would be comical. Umm, took the black boxes to help the investigation? Then I hear they claim that many dead bodies look they had been killed days earlier? Any one who thinks the Cold War was a joke just look at the product that calls itself modern day Russia or Russian because it is directly affected by the actions of the old communist USSR & mindset.


The influence of the old KGB is quite strong too. Putin was KGB.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 19, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> Then I hear they claim that many dead bodies look they had been killed days earlier?



I was just reading about that bizarre account of the crash...http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-07-18-14-22-48


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## Warrigal (Jul 20, 2014)

WhatInThe said:
			
		

> Then I hear they claim that many dead bodies look they had been killed days earlier?


 I always have a problem with a statement attributed to some generic "they". 
Are "they" forensic experts on dead bodies, especially those falling from 33,000 feet ?


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## Jackie22 (Jul 20, 2014)

The rebels have moved the bodies to an unknown location and are letting the investigators in for short periods of time...the Dutch are rightly raising hell.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 20, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I always have a problem with a statement attributed to some generic "they".
> Are "they" forensic experts on dead bodies, especially those falling from 33,000 feet ?



They is a high ranking rebel leader and website.


http://abcnews.go.com/International...sts-malaysia-plane-victims-long-dead-24622107

Besides the obvious manipulation and cover up I don't think "they" even understand of the importance of securing and not disturbing the scene.  Along with removing the dead bodies in an expedient and respectful manner. They need to watch more CSI episodes.


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## Warrigal (Jul 20, 2014)

> A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.
> The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.


Bizarre indeed.  If the bodies weren't fresh then what could have happened? 

a) Malaysia airlines was carrying a number of corpses as well as some live passengers?
b) Some of the corpses and body parts were driven to the crash site and scattered around the fields to confuse the investigators or to hide some nasty war crime elsewhere in Ukraine?
c) These bodies are from another crash and all of the MH17 passengers are alive and well but hidden in some Russian prison

or d) the rebels are making things up because they want to lay a false trail for investigators to follow. 

It would appear that around 100 bodies and parts have been moved to refrigerated railway carriages and the smell of decomposition is apparent even from the outside. It's high Summer in Ukraine as evidenced by the ripe wheat fields, and the broken bodies have been exposed to the elements. Of course they are drained of blood and decomposing. I'd be surprised if any of them are fresh.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 22, 2014)

A Ukraine  commander and the russian are now saying its possible the malaysian ai was full of corpses before it was shot down.

Also heard this one, it was the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 that had been flying ever since without food or water thus all the corpses.

Wonder which one is the truth?....


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## kcvet (Jul 22, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> A Ukraine  commander and the russian are now saying its possible the malaysian ai was full of corpses before it was shot down.
> 
> Also heard this one, it was the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 that had been flying ever since without food or water thus all the corpses.
> 
> Wonder which one is the truth?....



IF we get the serial number we'll know


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## Davey Jones (Jul 22, 2014)

A Ukraine commander and the russian are now saying its possible the malaysian ai was full of corpses before it was shot down.

Also heard this one, it was the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 that had been flying ever since without food or water thus all the corpses.

Wonder which one is the truth?....


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## JustBonee (Jul 22, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> A Ukraine commander and the russian are now saying its possible the malaysian ai was full of corpses before it was shot down.
> 
> Also heard this one, it was the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 that had been flying ever since without food or water thus all the corpses.
> 
> Wonder which one is the truth?....



Heard that nonsense too.  What a bunch of loonies!!


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## Davey Jones (Jul 22, 2014)

Bonnie said:


> Heard that nonsense too. What a bunch of loonies!!



These are high govenrment officials like our Congress in Washington.


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## JustBonee (Jul 22, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> These are high govenrment officials like our Congress in Washington.



It's hard to fix stupid,  as we know so well.


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## Happyflowerlady (Jul 23, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> A Ukraine commander and the russian are now saying its possible the malaysian ai was full of corpses before it was shot down.
> 
> Also heard this one, it was the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 that had been flying ever since without food or water thus all the corpses.
> 
> Wonder which one is the truth?....



As far-fetched as this sounds, there is actually some reasons for people claiming this. I am now looking at some of the videos from the  "youtube detectives" that have found some discrepancies between the two planes.
Here is one short one that shows pictures of both planes before, and one of the wreckage now in the Ukraine.  The pictures do actually seem to be of the missing plane, rather than the one that was shot down. 

Before you just write this off as from a crackpot, at least look at the pictures !  

http://youtu.be/aYY3Bku07fA


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## kcvet (Jul 23, 2014)

Happyflowerlady said:


> As far-fetched as this sounds, there is actually some reasons for people claiming this. I am now looking at some of the videos from the  "youtube detectives" that have found some discrepancies between the two planes.
> Here is one short one that shows pictures of both planes before, and one of the wreckage now in the Ukraine.  The pictures do actually seem to be of the missing plane, rather than the one that was shot down.
> 
> Before you just write this off as from a crackpot, at least look at the pictures !
> ...



but he can't confirm the photos. and he claims it was blown up on the ground. he's gotta go a lot deeper than this. the only way to confirm if their one in the same is to have the NTSB collect serial numbers. every part of that plane has a serial number. then compare that to numbers on MH370 thru Boeing's records. and we would need blood samples to compare with living relatives of 370. I don't know any other way they can do it


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## GeorgiaXplant (Jul 24, 2014)

Justme said:


> It would have suited the Government in Ukraine if US citizens had been on board that flight, as they would have hoped the US would go in mob handed to avenge their loss!



Really? In that case wouldn't they have waited for a flight known to have US citizens aboard?


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## WhatInThe (Jul 24, 2014)

Regardless of how sloppy the scene was handled you have dog sh%T Ukrainian rebels or separatists looting the scene of the passenger's personal belongings including their credit cards and cell phones.

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/07/flight-mh17-crash-site-has-been-heavily-looted/374707/

I've seen reports of passenger relatives getting phone calls from the deceased passenger's cell phone.

Absolutely revolting. So old school hardline  communist's are looting a crime scene for profit? Pieces of crap in the purest of forms.


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## Warrigal (Jul 24, 2014)

Update - We have sent a contingent of Australian Federal Police to help secure the crash area and a week after the crash a large piece of the plane and more bodies have just been found. In that week two more Ukrainian planes have been shot down by missiles but there is doubt about whether they were fired from rebel held Ukrainian territory or from over the border in Russia. There is a civil war happening over there.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...-mh17-crash-site-as-dutch-take-charge/5622860
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-24/afp-officers-readying-to-join-mh17-security-force/5622082

The two flight recorders have been now handed over intact to the Dutch authorities who say that they have not been tampered with and the data has been downloaded. 

Bodies have been flown out of Ukraine on military aircraft (we have one or two performing this duty) and taken to Amsterdam. Each body is contained in a separate coffin and carried in convoys of hearses to  a military facility where forensic analysis and DNA identification will take place. Again, we have experts helping with this process. The bodies were met at the airport by the Dutch King and Queen, holding each other's hand for comfort and by high level representatives of all the countries involved. Our Governor General, officially our head of state as the Queen's representative was present, as was our Foreign Minister, representing the Prime Minister.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-24/afp-officers-readying-to-join-mh17-security-force/5622082

Our Foreign Minister is now in Kiev with others facilitating the process of securing the crash site and ensuring a safe zone for international teams to continue scouring the area for more bodies and parts of the plane.

I heard on the radio this morning that the Ukrainian government has collapsed, in that the coalition has fallen apart and new election will have to be held in October.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-25/ukraine-prime-minister-arseny-yatseniuk-quits/5622834

All in all, it's a very difficult situation but a lot of resources are being thrown at it at the highest level to try to establish exactly what has happened and to allow the bodies to repatriated to relatives in their own countries.


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## Ina (Jul 24, 2014)

Warri, This is a good thing. Now maybe some of rhe family's can find some peace. raying:


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