# Long post but reflects MY feelings



## squatting dog (Apr 24, 2020)

If you dis-agree, fine move on. I couldn't say it any better.

Why do I have to stay home just because YOU are scared? How about YOU stay home....YOU stay in YOUR house indefinitely, YOU wear a mask, YOU socially distance yourself from me, YOU avoid restaurants, YOU avoid baseball games, YOU stay off the roads, YOU avoid malls and beaches and parks, YOU believe the made up death numbers, YOU believe the media hype, YOU Get your toxic vaccine while avoiding vitamin C, sunshine and the things God gave us to actually heal.
I'm done playing YOUR dumb game. We are not “all in this together.” I'm not wearing YOUR dumb tin foil hat anymore. I’m no longer going to be a prisoner of your fear. I'm no longer staying in my house or catering to YOU because YOU are scared. I'm not wearing a mask and I'm not staying 6 feet away from you anymore because I'm not afraid of you. You are not my enemy and if I get sick, it's not because of YOU, it's because of me and my system, which not only have I been addressing for quite some time, but I also know how to treat if I get sick.
This virus (or whatever it is) is already circulating. Millions of people have already encountered it, as it's been circulating around the world probably since last September. YOU will have to confront this thing, if you haven’t already. There is no way around it, unless you lock yourself up in your house and it somehow doesn't manage to hop on some mail or some groceries that you ordered online. 
YOUR fear is not an excuse to destroy America. YOUR fear is not my fear and your fear does not have the right to interfere with my life, my job, my income or my future as a free American citizen. So if you're scared, you can just put your tin foil hat on, or even wrap foil all around your whole body, or around your whole house if you wish - but please keep your fear contained to your little corner of the world and don't contaminate me or my family or my Country.  
I copied & pasted this from Grey Havens' page it's perfect


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## win231 (Apr 24, 2020)

I completely get it.  Most of these measures are silly, but we only have to follow the laws; not suggestions.
I only wear a mask when it's required - when inside a market.  I don't wear one when I'm outside & many others don't either.  I'm still laughing at the mask thing.  They previously said masks are useless, now they're required when shopping.....what made them useful now?

Today, while checking out at the market, I just had to make a comment on those plexiglass "virus shields" at the counter.  There is a big opening at the bottom of the shield.  I put my hands in the opening & said, "I'm checking for germs.......nope, none here."  Everyone in line laughed, so I did my job well.

As soon as I heard the "Stay Home" crap, I found it as silly as you do.  I haven't been staying home; I've been going out every day.  I've been taking food & supplies to elderly friends & visiting, etc.  I won't go where I'm not wanted because I don't like to cause people stress, but so far, none of my friends don't want me in their house & none of us are sick.
I WILL, however draw the line at any vaccine or drug.  Nobody makes my health decisions for me.  Anyone who wants a vaccine is free to get one; just don't try to convince me to get one.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 24, 2020)

I hear many people talking about their rights during this pandemic but I don't hear much about the responsibilities that go along with those rights.

IMO you can go anywhere you like and do anything you choose as long as you respect and help to protect my rights when you are out asserting your freedom and independence.

I'm not scared and I'm not stupid.

I'm just doing what makes sense to me and millions of Americans.

Be smart and stay safe.


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## Sunny (Apr 24, 2020)

I had to look up Gray Havens to see who originated this piece of stupidity. They are an American Christian folk-pop singing group, consisting of a hushand and wife in Tennessee.

Dear Gray Havens:  Whether you are fearful or not is irrelevant; who cares?  I hope when you get the disease, you will be spared the horrible death that many seniors are experiencing.  And the reason people are playing this "dumb game" is that you are arrogantly doing your best to give the disease to as many other people as you can.  It is possible, as I'm sure you must know, to have the disease and not have symptoms, or just have mild symptoms and pay no mind to them.  This does not mean that other people are safe around you.  You can be killing umpteen other people without knowing it.  If you can live with your conscience while doing this, then common decency has gone out the window. Or at least it has with you and your followers.

The idiot who wrote this sounds like a toddler who has been given a very dangerous weapon to play with, and is boasting about it. Do you really think this is an assault on your manhood?  How would you feel if you killed a member of your family that you loved, or a dear friend, because you don't want to be told what to do? This Gray Havens writer (and I bet it's the husband) sounds like a 2-year-old.

So, practically every country all over the world is mourning thousands of deaths and has gone into lockdown, keeping people separated from each other and destroying their economy, for no particular reason?  You know better, and you won't be told what to do, nyah nyah?

Good heavens.


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## squatting dog (Apr 24, 2020)

I care not one particle about who Gray Havens is. What I do care is that he put into words exactly how I feel, and I might mention that a lot of other folks here in Arkansas also feel. Odd isn't it, that Arkansas with no lock downs and only a few common sense suggestions has somehow managed to survive this "sky is falling--- the end is here" scare tactic hyped by the "click bait" media.  Oh yeah, most of our whopping 45 deaths have been people with pre-existing conditions.  But, good to hear that you, being a "bless your heart" person, are wishing for him to get the virus. I guess then, you can't wait until I get it too. ehhh?
You know, sometime in your life, you have probably sneezed or coughed and unwittingly gave someone else with a weakened immune system a serious if not fatal illness. Of course, your conscience  is clear because... guess what? you didn't know you passed it on to umpteen people.
One final thought, when did living your own life become a "dumb game"?  If you really hate the idea of American freedom and the Bill Of Rights, I feel  sorry for you.


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## old medic (Apr 24, 2020)

Squatting Dog..... I raise a glass in your direction....


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## rgp (Apr 24, 2020)

old medic said:


> Squatting Dog..... I raise a glass in your direction....




 Here,here....and it's happy hour t'boot.


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## old medic (Apr 24, 2020)

rgp said:


> Here,here....and it's happy hour t'boot.


Not really.... the glass had coffee in it.... its actually Monday morning for me... got to be at work in about an hour...
For the next 4 nights its back to the front lines


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## Manatee (Apr 24, 2020)

Ask the folks that can't even go to the funeral of a victim/relative.


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## Pink Biz (Apr 24, 2020)

*I feel badly for the people of this country who don't/won't recognize that this is a worldwide and very virulent virus that is among us and it's not going away any time soon.*


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## Judycat (Apr 24, 2020)

I don't care either, but I'll wear a stupid mask if it means the yahoos will let me shop in peace.


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## win231 (Apr 24, 2020)

38 years ago, I was working in an aerospace plant.  It was the only time I got the flu.  After a week at home, I was bored & went back to work before I was fully recovered.  That lasted one day.  I got sicker & I was required to see a doctor before returning to work.  The doctor said I went back to work too soon & I had pneumonia.  I stayed home for another week & was cleared to go back to work.

My co-workers frequently used my phone, sat at my desk, touched everything I touched & used the restroom before me.  I likely got it from one of them.  Was it their fault?  Should I have sued them for making me sick?  Of course not.  Any time we leave our house, we take risks - including catching a contagious illness from someone else.....along with getting killed in a traffic accident.


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## Rosemarie (Apr 24, 2020)

I went into the chemist yesterday, and it was like something out of a disaster movie. The staff were wearing masks AND visors as well as being behind screens.  The floor had large squares where the customers were asked to stand. The item I bought was placed on the counter and then the assistant retreated while I reached out and picked it up.
We are obviously in the grip of a plague!


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## chic (Apr 25, 2020)

There's no lockdown in Sweden for exactly these reasons. People who surrender their freedom to government control will find themselves regretting it four weeks later - ( in a Democracy, friends ), and then will find themselves in a struggle to get their freedoms back due to the difficulties of reopening a country once its been locked down.

This probably explains all the protests of restrictions that are happening currently worldwide.

Dr. Johan Giesecke, a Swedish epidemiologist, has a very interesting an intelligent take on this.


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## Mike (Apr 25, 2020)

There is frustration everywhere about Lockdown, same
here people are flouting the advice to stay away from
others for their own safety.

In America you have the same advice, you also have rights
that are different from any that we have, 1st amendment,
2nd, 3rd, etc., etc., etc.

We also have the right to have a decent and private funeral
when we die, but so many are dieing that no mourners are
allowed at the graveside, though that might have been changed
to one person, but so much for the "Private" part, one cemetry
in South London which is the one that Muslims use are digging
long trenches for communal graves, the same was shown on TV
from New York.

So if you don't mind you loved ones going in a communal grave,
then go out and gather with others and you will get your wish.

Stay home, stay safe and stay out of a communal grave.

Mike.


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## hollydolly (Apr 25, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> I went into the chemist yesterday, and it was like something out of a disaster movie. The staff were wearing masks AND visors as well as being behind screens.  The floor had large squares where the customers were asked to stand. The item I bought was placed on the counter and then the assistant retreated while I reached out and picked it up.
> We are obviously in the grip of a plague!


exactly the same thing happens at our local Chemist ( Pharmacy)... Battle shields up at the counter (like a war zone)  ... faces covered to the max so you can only see eyes ( except the pharmacist, oddly) .  only _one person_ is permitted in the shop at a time, so we have a long queue outside and then when we get into the shop we're asked to stand behind the police warning tape which is about 6 feet from the counter and shout across our requirements .. ... item then placed placed under the shield using a gloved hand.... I stood outside in the queue for 30 minutes the other day to collect a prescription which took me literally 2 minutes to collect and get out.. (yes I did have a mask on tho ..


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## IrisSenior (Apr 25, 2020)

Thank goodness I get my prescriptions delivered. Now I need to go and see if I need more pills.


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## oldman (Apr 25, 2020)

I didn't think Arkansas had a stay-at-home order issued by your Governor.


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## Ken N Tx (Apr 25, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> I hear many people talking about their rights during this pandemic but I don't hear much about the responsibilities that go along with those rights.
> 
> IMO you can go anywhere you like and do anything you choose as long as you respect and help to protect my rights when you are out asserting your freedom and independence.
> 
> ...





Pink Biz said:


> *I feel badly for the people of this country who don't/won't recognize that this is a worldwide and very virulent virus that is among us and it's not going away any time soon.*


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## IrisSenior (Apr 25, 2020)

Deaths in Arkansas is 47 from 45 a few days ago. Hmmmmm.


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## hollydolly (Apr 25, 2020)

IrisSenior said:


> Thank goodness I get my prescriptions delivered. Now I need to go and see if I need more pills.


 I wish we could get ours delivered but we can't...


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## IrisSenior (Apr 25, 2020)

I am very fortunate, prescriptions delivered (free) and groceries delivered.

I am cautious with all this stuff and deaths are still climbing.

Sigh...wish I could wave a wand and remove all this virus from the world. (While I am at it: remove hunger, remove prejudice, remove hatred of mankind for whatever reason) but that is impossible because we are all human and victims of ourselves).


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## toffee (Apr 25, 2020)

get mine from the pharmacy inside our clinic... so no queing --bliss..
but if you look at it logically ' rubber gloves -wipes- ques -mask wearing -if we did not have these guidelines the death rate
would be outstanding to say the least - its not a big thing to obey the rules for our safety !!


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## squatting dog (Apr 25, 2020)

oldman said:


> I didn't think Arkansas had a stay-at-home order issued by your Governor.



They don't, but, with a lot of other states with a lock down order, travel has all but stopped. I like to take my motor home out to the desert area's and boondock a lot. This year, it was planned to hit Utah, then Montana, and the Dakota's. Right now though, it's difficult because, while there is blm land that is still open, stopping anywhere to dump holding tanks or get fresh water or other supplies is all but impossible. 
Can you imagine not being allowed into a grocery store unless you're wearing an armband ala Montana. Hey.... why not just make it a star sewn on your shirt?


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## squatting dog (Apr 25, 2020)

IrisSenior said:


> Deaths in Arkansas is 47 from 45 a few days ago. Hmmmmm.


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## Ronni (Apr 25, 2020)

Some actions are driven by emotions, not rational thought.  So you go right ahead with your emotional response, and potentially and needlessly spread disease to vulnerable people, whether or not you know them personally. Go ahead and refuse to listen to reason and continue to look out for your own selfish wants, as opposed to thinking about the implications your behavior will have on others. Continue to devalue doing things for the greater good.

We are not a nation composed of individuals and nuclear families.  We live in a society and that alone makes us dependent on one another, whether we like that or not.  None of us get to opt out of the human race.  You can attempt to negate the responsibility that comes with the freedom you so righteously demand, but that doesn't absolve you of the consequences to others of you failing to step up.

But you go on and continue to be needlessly smug and self-righteous.  I'll just be over here with my mask and my disinfectant spray, doing what I can to protect myself from people like you.


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## Tommy (Apr 25, 2020)

I respect your frustration with all of this, squatting dog.  Even those at the top of the science fields don't fully understand this virus.  With some in government and business trying to spin the situation to their own advantage, and with the vast amount of misinformation circulating on social media, it's not at all surprising that the average person experiences a certain amount of anxiety and confusion.

This is obviously a disease that affects larger cities the most, not only in sheer numbers but also in terms of cases/deaths per 100,000 people.  Like myself, you are blessed to live in an area that isn't being hit nearly as hard as some.  I wonder if we might feel differently if we lived in a hard hit urban center.

Ultimately we all make our own decisions about our actions that can affect our safety and that of those around us.  I'll defend my personal liberties (and yours) with every fiber of my being but for the sake of others, for example, I CHOOSE not to to drink and drive.  Likewise, I CHOOSE to observe social distancing and sanitation practices.  You will CHOOSE what seems best to you, but please don't denigrate others for their CHOICES.  THey share the same rights as you.

There's nothing we can do about cancelled events and closed restaurants, and frankly I'm not so precious that missing out on those things is going to ruin my life.  The Lord has gotten me through far worse that this in my life, and I trust He'll get me through this as well.

I'll pray for relief for all of those who are suffering, both physically and emotionally, during this ... just another of life's many challenges.  I'll continue to count my many blessings and get on with my life.


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## Capt Lightning (Apr 25, 2020)

I had to go to the pharmacy last week to pick up a prescription.  No queue, just stay 6 feet away from others (only one other customer).  A simple shield round the cash desk, but no other obvious precautions.
This time I didn't have to sign for anything.


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## squatting dog (Apr 25, 2020)

IrisSenior said:


> Deaths in Arkansas is 47 from 45 a few days ago. Hmmmmm.



Total deaths in USA 2018 (latest on record) from the  top 10 leading causes.... 2,839,205
Total deaths Arkansas 2017, again from top 10 causes, 25,233.   Tell me again why we should lock down the state because   Hmmm 47  
Yeah, makes sense now.


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## squatting dog (Apr 25, 2020)

Ronni said:


> Some actions are driven by emotions, not rational thought.  So you go right ahead with your emotional response, and potentially and needlessly spread disease to vulnerable people, whether or not you know them personally. Go ahead and refuse to listen to reason and continue to look out for your own selfish wants, as opposed to thinking about the implications your behavior will have on others. Continue to devalue doing things for the greater good.
> But you go on and continue to be needlessly smug and self-righteous.  I'll just be over here with my mask and my disinfectant spray, doing what I can to protect myself from people like you.



I'm not being smug. I just think that some people in charge have way over reacted to what may, by the time it's all done and tested, will have been no better or worse than other disease's. (for which we have no cure by the way). 
It just stuns me that people are so willing to forgo the civil liberties and rights so quickly, and without question. Call that self-righteous if you prefer. I'll proudly wear that badge.


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## Ronni (Apr 25, 2020)

squatting dog said:


> I'm not being smug. I just think that some people in charge have way over reacted to what may, by the time it's all done and tested, will have been no better or worse than other disease's. (for which we have no cure by the way).
> It just stuns me that people are so willing to forgo the civil liberties and rights so quickly, and without question. Call that self-righteous if you prefer. I'll proudly wear that badge.



I have a medically trained family member who is also a first responder and he and friends who are on the front lines.  I've received first hand reports of the heinous nature of this virus and the wretched way people are sickening and dying from it.  I don't want to go out that way, so I choose to keep myself safe based on my own research and understanding of the virus and its spread.

How is that choice violating my civil liberties?  YOUR choice hampers my ability to keep myself safe. My choice is a REACTION, in part, to your lack of responsibility because now I'm now only having to keep myself safe from the virus, I'm also having to keep myself safe from people like you.


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## StarSong (Apr 25, 2020)

If this kills far fewer people than projected, it will almost certainly be due to the extraordinary containment measures taken by epidemiologists, scientists, doctors, political leaders and literally billions of humans following their advice.  

When there's a terrible drought with forecasts of millions dying of starvation, but governments cooperate to bring food to those areas so far fewer die than predicted, some may find it appropriate to say, "I knew that drought wasn't going to be such a big deal after all!"


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## oldman (Apr 25, 2020)

squatting dog said:


> They don't, but, with a lot of other states with a lock down order, travel has all but stopped. I like to take my motor home out to the desert area's and boondock a lot. This year, it was planned to hit Utah, then Montana, and the Dakota's. Right now though, it's difficult because, while there is blm land that is still open, stopping anywhere to dump holding tanks or get fresh water or other supplies is all but impossible.
> Can you imagine not being allowed into a grocery store unless you're wearing an armband ala Montana. Hey.... why not just make it a star sewn on your shirt?


OK, I get it. This is all about you.


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## katlupe (Apr 25, 2020)

I am not in a panic over it. But, I am following all the social distancing guidelines. What does it hurt? I have a boyfriend who is 67 and has lung, heart and other health issues. I live in a senior living apartment building. Disabled and elderly. All types of health issues. If I take this lightly, I'd never forgive myself if someone got it because of me. I am not missing out on anything though. I don't usually go out much unless I go shopping with my boyfriend. I have not seen him for two weeks now. I am planning on going to my grocery store using my mobility chair today or tomorrow.


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## Judycat (Apr 25, 2020)

I kinda like the six foot rule. Extending it would be nice too.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 25, 2020)

@squatting dog  When I first read your post, I thought you were personally venting and was going to ask you if you felt better now....but since it was just a copy and paste from some unknown ranter on the internet, I didn't bother replying.  Also, this is America, you are not losing your civil liberties by being asked to act responsibly during a COVID-19 Pandemic, something we haven't encountered here in our lifetime.  If you're in China, and they lock you in your house, check on you every day by force, and put you in prison or worse for stepping out of your house, then yes, that is losing your rights.

There are young and old people dying from this, and I personally have no problem adjusting my daily routine to avoid the spread of this virus to myself and others.  Your state may not have a lot of deaths from it, but there's no big bubble around Arkansas, you affect all of the United States of America.  

Some who die from this already have compromised immune systems or health issues....but, if they didn't contract the Coronavirus, they would still be enjoying their lives today, instead of being hauled off in bodybags with the other victims, all who have died alone and not even had their loved ones with them.  Many who lost their wives, husbands, parents or children to COVID-19, have not even been able to bury their dead, or have a proper funeral for them.

I don't think it's asking too much to restrict our activities until they get a hold on this pandemic.  But, having said all that, you are entitled to your opinion, and you're not alone in not wanting to cooperate in this health crisis.  Here are recent statistics for the US.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...covid19-cases-and-deaths-number-us-americans/



> *As of April 23, 2020, the number of both confirmed and presumptive positive cases of the COVID-19 disease reported in the United States had reached 865,585, with 48,816 deaths reported among these cases.*


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 25, 2020)

Tommy said:


> Ultimately we all make our own decisions about our actions that can affect our safety and that of those around us. I'll defend my personal liberties (and yours) with every fiber of my being but for the sake of others, for example, I CHOOSE not to to drink and drive. Likewise, I CHOOSE to observe social distancing and sanitation practices. You will CHOOSE what seems best to you, but please don't denigrate others for their CHOICES. THey share the same rights as you.
> 
> There's nothing we can do about cancelled events and closed restaurants, and frankly I'm not so precious that missing out on those things is going to ruin my life. The Lord has gotten me through far worse that this in my life, and I trust He'll get me through this as well.
> 
> I'll pray for relief for all of those who are suffering, both physically and emotionally, during this ... just another of life's many challenges. I'll continue to count my many blessings and get on with my life.


Very well said @Tommy , I admire you for that and thank you.


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## squatting dog (Apr 25, 2020)

SeaBreeze said:


> @squatting dog  When I first read your post, I thought you were personally venting and was going to ask you if you felt better now....but since it was just a copy and paste from some unknown ranter on the internet, I didn't bother replying.  Also, this is America, you are not losing your civil liberties by being asked to act responsibly during a COVID-19 Pandemic, something we haven't encountered here in our lifetime.  If you're in China, and they lock you in your house, check on you every day by force, and put you in prison or worse for stepping out of your house, then yes, that is losing your rights.
> 
> There are young and old people dying from this, and I personally have no problem adjusting my daily routine to avoid the spread of this virus to myself and others.  Your state may not have a lot of deaths from it, but there's no big bubble around Arkansas, you affect all of the United States of America.
> 
> ...


All you say may be true, but, here are the statistics for the top 10 killers in the USA for 2018......2,839,205 dead. That's an awful lot of people who have died and yet... silence. What exactly is it that makes people think this one is so much worse?   Hint.... media


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 25, 2020)

Manatee said:


> Ask the folks that can't even go to the funeral of a victim/relative.


@Manatee , my heart goes out to those who were on their death beds from COVID-19 completely alone, not being able to have any comfort from their spouses or loved ones.  Also, I can't even imagine how it would feel if my husband was in the hospital in that situation, and if he died alone, I couldn't even view his body for a last goodbye, or have him cremated in a funeral home in a proper fashion.  I honestly don't know how I would react to that horror.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 25, 2020)

squatting dog said:


> All you say may be true, but, here are the statistics for the top 10 killers in the USA for 2018......2,839,205 dead. That's an awful lot of people who have died and yet... silence. What exactly is it that makes people think this one is so much worse?   Hint.... media


Apples and oranges.  We can agree to disagree, I'll leave it at that.


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## Sunny (Apr 25, 2020)

> Also, this is America, you are not losing your civil liberties by being asked to act responsibly during a COVID-19 Pandemic, something we haven't encountered here in our lifetime.  If you're in China, and they lock you in your house, check on you every day by force, and put you in prison or worse for stepping out of your house, then yes, that is losing your rights.



Good answer, SeaBreeze. I thought about that also after I posted my reply to Squatting Dog.  China is apparently a police state, and I feel sorry for the people who are not only caught up in this horrible pandemic over there, but are also under the thumb of a draconian police force. Locking people up or having armed police forcing them to stay inside is a violation of basic human rights.  _Asking_ people to cooperate with what all the health officials are saying is the only way we have at present of stopping this is not a violation of anything! The only people (thankfully, a small number) who think it is, are living in a childish fantasy.


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## win231 (Apr 25, 2020)

Ronni said:


> I have a medically trained family member who is also a first responder and he and friends who are on the front lines.  I've received first hand reports of the heinous nature of this virus and the wretched way people are sickening and dying from it.  I don't want to go out that way, so I choose to keep myself safe based on my own research and understanding of the virus and its spread.
> 
> How is that choice violating my civil liberties?  YOUR choice hampers my ability to keep myself safe. My choice is a REACTION, in part, to your lack of responsibility becuase now I'm now only having to keep myself safe from the virus, I'm also having to keep myself safe from people like you.


Exactly the type of programmed robot they want you to be.


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## Ronni (Apr 25, 2020)

win231 said:


> Exactly the type of programmed robot they want you to be.


My son has no deep seated heinous motive to turn me into a robot! Good Lord, use your brain!!  

He’s my son. He’s a first responder. He’s medically trained. He has seen, up close and personally, the devastating effects of this virus. HE’S TRYING TO KEEP ME ALIVE!!!!!

I simply cannot imagine the kind of dysfunctional relationship you must have with your own children, if you have any, to ascribe such evil motives to mine.

I am sorry for you.


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## Judycat (Apr 25, 2020)

After a couple or several seasons of Covid 19 they won't be so stringent with the rules. They'll have a magic vaccine by then too, so it will be on you if you die from it.


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## Red Cinders (Apr 25, 2020)

The OP seems like a typical reaction to a situation where a tight grip has been in force long enough to cause a breaking.  That grip was necessary for at least 3 weeks to give us time to figure some things out, but now may be the time to loosen it a little for some.

This virus can be devastating to large cities whereas more sprawling areas are lightly affected.  I remember over a month ago hearing Gov. Cuomo of NYC warning the rest of the country that we would have the same sort of numbers as NYC in a few weeks.  Fortunately, it hasn't played out that way and (knock wood) it stays that way.  I'm in a rural/suburban area living about 30 miles from Orlando, and things here are completely different than in NYC.  Florida has a very low percentage of deaths statewise in comparison  -- Florida 5 deaths per 100,000 and New York 83 deaths per 100,000.  The US is so diverse in our living environments that there is no one-size-fits-all.  

I see nothing wrong with a very slow but smart re-opening of areas that are lightly affected as long as special precautions are followed.  The numbers would have to be watched very closely to make sure the health care system could accommodate any increase in cases.  Also, returning to work should be voluntary rather than forced.

Personally, I have no need or desire for things to open back up quickly.  We don't work anymore, and we're able to bike and walk in the sunshine every day.  Walmart curbside pickup is great for getting groceries.  Husband and I even cut each other's hair.  For us, it wouldn't make sense to put ourselves and others at risk by going out.  However, I realize it's different for others especially those who need to go out to make a living.  I'm content staying in but as long as others aren't putting anyone at risk or taxing the healthcare system, then I believe they should be allowed to try re-opening slowly and safely.


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## Ronni (Apr 25, 2020)

Red Cinders said:


> The OP seems like a typical reaction to a situation where a tight grip has been in force long enough to cause a breaking.  That grip was necessary for at least 3 weeks to give us time to figure some things out, but now may be the time to loosen it a little for some.
> 
> This virus can be devastating to large cities whereas more sprawling areas are lightly affected.  I remember over a month ago hearing Gov. Cuomo of NYC warning the rest of the country that we would have the same sort of numbers as NYC in a few weeks.  Fortunately, it hasn't played out that way and (knock wood) it stays that way.  I'm in a rural/suburban area living about 30 miles from Orlando, and things here are completely different than in NYC.  Florida has a very low percentage of deaths statewise in comparison  -- Florida 5 deaths per 100,000 and New York 83 deaths per 100,000.  The US is so diverse in our living environments that there is no one-size-fits-all.
> 
> ...


You make valid points.

Understand, I have no objection to folks taking reasoned and reasonable steps to slowly return to as normal a life as possible, keeping in mind the recommended guidelines. And while your choices in this regard might be different than mine, we would each be taking into account our own environments, both personal and regional, death/infection/recovery statistics in our areas, and how our choices will impact friends, family, neighborhood etc.

That is VERY different than an hysterical reaction and rebellion to THE GOVMINT taking away our liberties, and I'LL DO WHAT I DAMN WELL WANT, and Y'ALL ARE PROGRAMMED ROBOTS and the rest of the dreck ad nauseam. 

Even that, EVEN THAT, if that's the way folks want to think, that's fine.  I respect your right to think however you want, whether I disagree or not, right up to the point where you want to take the way you think AND SHOVE IT DOWN MY THROAT.  At that point all bets are off.


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## CarolfromTX (Apr 25, 2020)

Half the deaths are in New York or New Jersey, where people live cheek by jowl. I believe that's important to note. I hope we can be sensible about this without completely surrendering our rights.


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## Sunny (Apr 25, 2020)

This may seem to be a little bit off topic, but it isn't, really.  After reading through this thread, I started thinking about the subject of personal rights and freedom. The more I thought, the more I realized that we really don't have absolute freedom, far from it. And that's as it should be.  

People who are living like hermits in the middle of a wilderness, all alone, may have a bit more "freedom" than people living among other people, but even there it isn't absolute.  What if they demand the freedom to burn down the forest?

And, if you're living as part of a social milieu with other human beings, you can't,,,,

Walk naked down a city street.

Walk, even fully clothed, down the middle of a busy interstate, because you just felt like taking a walk.

Raise lions in your suburban back yard.

Play loud music through a loudspeaker on your front porch in your suburban neighborhood, at 2 AM.

Start a bonfire in the living room of your apartment.

Interfere with the democratically elected workings of government, or other people's right to vote.

Commit a felony because you think the law against that felony is "unfair."

I'm sure you can think of many other examples.  So, what makes it a "live free or die" issue to deliberately endanger the health of other people?


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## rgp (Apr 25, 2020)

If anyone fears this virus [that bad] I understand that but....in that case limit _*yourself*_, lay-down restrictions....for _*yourself*_. Stop telling me what I must do. Some people are really hurting [financially] and really can not go any longer without a paycheck....as such, they need to get back to work if at all possible.

Calls to suicide hot lines are on the rise, domestic violence is on the rise,drinking [alcohol] is on the rise, etc & so-on. We [our nation] really does need to get back to some normalcy .


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## Pink Biz (Apr 25, 2020)




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## squatting dog (Apr 25, 2020)

Pink Biz said:


> View attachment 101023


Absolutely, now, same question... would you go out if you could see all the germs floating around this earth?


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## squatting dog (Apr 25, 2020)

Pink Biz said:


> View attachment 101023


So, I guess money, groceries, and gas is a no no for you ehh?


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## rgp (Apr 25, 2020)

Pink Biz said:


> View attachment 101023




 So far....that's an impossibility....so.


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## Pink Biz (Apr 25, 2020)

@rgp @squatting dog


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## win231 (Apr 25, 2020)

Sunny said:


> This may seem to be a little bit off topic, but it isn't, really.  After reading through this thread, I started thinking about the subject of personal rights and freedom. The more I thought, the more I realized that we really don't have absolute freedom, far from it. And that's as it should be.
> 
> People who are living like hermits in the middle of a wilderness, all alone, may have a bit more "freedom" than people living among other people, but even there it isn't absolute.  What if they demand the freedom to burn down the forest?
> 
> ...


Not even close to a valid comparison.


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## squatting dog (Apr 25, 2020)

Pink Biz said:


> @rgp @squatting dog
> 
> View attachment 101038


Sort of like asking if I could see a bunch of red pocket rockets, would I be scared.


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## Gardenlover (Apr 25, 2020)

A bit of a battle royal.

One side is dying from Covid-19, the other side is dying a slow and painful death from lack of income.

How about those who don't want to be exposed shelter-in-place and those who want to resume their lives - do so?

Honest question - does the solution have to be all one or the other? 

_[Captain, shields have been raised, but I doubt they'll hold for long.]_


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## chic (Apr 26, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> A bit of a battle royal.
> 
> One side is dying from Covid-19, the other side is dying a slow and painful death from lack of income.
> 
> ...



That would probably be the best solution to the virus issue. Governments will have no money to pay for all the bailouts without income taxes and what happens when people owe almost nothing in income taxes because they've been out of work for so long? Those who think they're financially solvent will soon find out how wrong they were if this lockdown continues much longer.

It seems best that those who are vulnerable or afraid should stay in if that's what they want to do, but let the rest of the world get back to life and work etc. Most of us have probably been exposed already to covid-19 and have survived. Antibodies testing would reveal this if we could ever get the testing done. The world cannot remain shut down until a cure or vaccine is discovered and implemented. This condition is not sustainable.


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## rgp (Apr 26, 2020)

chic said:


> That would probably be the best solution to the virus issue. Governments will have no money to pay for all the bailouts without income taxes and what happens when people owe almost nothing in income taxes because they've been out of work for so long? Those who think they're financially solvent will soon find out how wrong they were if this lockdown continues much longer.
> 
> It seems best that those who are vulnerable or afraid should stay in if that's what they want to do, but let the rest of the world get back to life and work etc. Most of us have probably been exposed already to covid-19 and have survived. Antibodies testing would reveal this if we could ever get the testing done. The world cannot remain shut down until a cure or vaccine is discovered and implemented. This condition is not sustainable.




  Agree here.....


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## rgp (Apr 26, 2020)

Pink Biz said:


> @rgp @squatting dog
> 
> View attachment 101038




 I fully understand that but....why waste my time.


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## IrisSenior (Apr 28, 2020)

Squatting dog does like to get the conversations going and 'stir the pot'. BTW Arkansas deaths are 50 now.


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