# Question On Car Loan Co-Signing? Avoid Alcoholics?



## WhatInThe (Dec 23, 2015)

Know someone who is trying to help an alcoholic gray haired 50ish year old child by co signing on a car lease loan since their credit and job status are  trashed . The big question is by co signing the LOAN only that makes them responsible for the DEBT ONLY-correct? Or is there legal liability with the car as well. I don't want to see them jammed up if there is a catastrophic accident with the driver/car. 

They're operating under the assumption that a supposed new job that requires a car will straighten them out.

 I found out about the true nature of the kid's problem including at least one recent dui but the parent is operating under the assumption that that was a wake up call which it was not. Seen the kid drunk at family functions since. I'm trying to tell them unless they go to a formal alcoholism program and haven't touched a drop for at least a year I wouldn't even loan them the car to go to the local store for milk at 10 in the morning. They learned the hard way after they loaned their car at 6 at night when the kid/old person supposedly went to get a take out dinner and came back hours later drunk.

Co signing a loan is limits responsibility to THE LOAN only?

Thanks


----------



## Linda (Dec 23, 2015)

That's a good question but I have no idea of the answer.  Like you, I wouldn't co-sign anyway because I might get stuck paying off the kid's car.  I hope it works out OK for your friend.  I'll be watching here for someone more knowledgeable than me to answer.


----------



## jujube (Dec 23, 2015)

Does this "child" even have a driver's license?  In Florida, at least, a DUI quite often results in a six-month suspension or driver's license restricted to getting to and from work for a year.  A second DUI gets you a five-year suspension.  Also, who is paying for the auto insurance?  

Sounds like they should be co-signing for a bike instead.


----------



## RadishRose (Dec 23, 2015)

Co signing for a loan is for a loan. That's all.


----------



## fureverywhere (Dec 23, 2015)

Oh dear, you don't want to give up on your kid...but at a certain age you gotta cut the cord, especially with a history like that.


----------



## applecruncher (Dec 23, 2015)

The person who is contemplating co-signing (a horrible idea) should call their insurance company themself and get a straight, correct answer.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 23, 2015)

I for one, would NEVER co-sign that loan.


----------



## applecruncher (Dec 23, 2015)

An alcoholic 50ish man-child with history of DUIs, bad credit, and bad job history needs a leased car? Something wrong with that picture. He needs to take the bus, push a broom, and save up for a hoopty.


----------



## fureverywhere (Dec 23, 2015)

Yeah, just what he said...


----------



## WhatInThe (Dec 24, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> An alcoholic 50ish man-child with history of DUIs, bad credit, and bad job history needs a leased car? Something wrong with that picture. He needs to take the bus, push a broom, and save up for a hoopty.



That's what I and others have tried to tell them. The kid quite frankly feels entitled. The parent is the opposite. The kid apparently started partying and had a lot of rich or successful friends earlier in their life so this is who they associate themselves with. Push a broom, pffffttttt The parent hoped decades ago that some younger drinking & partying was just a phase and time would take care of it. The kid  had some good jobs but that enabled them to spend more money on partying and on a regular basis ie daily drinking.

They won't put limits on the kid  fearing they will push them over the edge wether it be anger or depression. So in years past when they asked for money they rarely said no. It took them years to realize something was up and to stop enabling by giving them cash.

It's all based on the assumption that this potentially good job will cure their ails. From what I've read without treatment this kid won't sober up. They were drinking heavy with good jobs in the past.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 24, 2015)

Some alcoholics need to crash before they embrace sobriety. This type of enabling only feeds the denial.


----------



## WhatInThe (Dec 24, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Some alcoholics need to crash before they embrace sobriety. This type of enabling only feeds the denial.



That's what everybody tells them. Let the kid hit a bottom but they fear they won't work their way up from that bottom. They realize there is a problem but now the trick is to get them to realize how best to handle the problem. Harping to friends and family about their kid's troubles isn't helping when they won't take the decisive action needed to help them. They simply allow too much bad behavior under the premise the kid is too fragile to hear the truth and I think they truely believe it.


----------



## applecruncher (Dec 24, 2015)

"The kid" is 50.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 24, 2015)

WhatInThe, perhaps they may be right. It is a crap shoot. If they continue to feed his addiction, eventually he will implode anyway, perhaps taking others with him.


----------



## Ken N Tx (Dec 24, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> I for one, would NEVER co-sign that loan.


----------



## WhatInThe (Dec 24, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> "The kid" is 50.



It's a senior's child even though an adult with gray hair. I'm afraid they'll be an AARP member before AA.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 25, 2015)

IMHO, if they DO cosign that loan, and the "kid" goes out and wraps it around a busload of kids, the parents are morally responsible for enabling him to do it.   

Why don't they let him "hit bottom" by having to walk?


----------



## WhatInThe (Dec 25, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> IMHO, if they DO cosign that loan, and the "kid" goes out and wraps it around a busload of kids, the parents are morally responsible for enabling him to do it.
> 
> Why don't they let him "hit bottom" by having to walk?



That's what we are trying to convince them of. But they don't believe in "enabling". In some respects they are right because the alcoholic has made a decision to drink & drive. On the other hand "if" they didn't help them get a car but others have helped by loaning their vehicles pretty regularly. His friends must be alcoholic as well because who lends a car knowing that person drives & drinks. They might be in hard times but not a bottom. The parent also doesn't believe in a bottom, they're assuming the recent round of hardER times is a "bottom". Between denial and lack of education on alcoholism and rehab it's tough convincing them to say no to their child.


----------



## jujube (Dec 25, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> That's what we are trying to convince them of. But they don't believe in "enabling". In some respects they are right because the alcoholic has made a decision to drink & drive. On the other hand "if" they didn't help them get a car but others have helped by loaning their vehicles pretty regularly. His friends must be alcoholic as well because who lends a car knowing that person drives & drinks. They might be in hard times but not a bottom. The parent also doesn't believe in a bottom, they're assuming the recent round of hardER times is a "bottom". Between denial and lack of education on alcoholism and rehab it's tough convincing them to say no to their child.



In that case, I'd have to say you've done everything _you_ can do.  It sounds like they are determined to start on another cycle of enabling.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 31, 2015)

Here, loaning a car to a known drunk can wind up costing you big bucks in civil court -- it's called "negligent entrustment."


----------



## imp (Dec 31, 2015)

Having dealt with the legal profession all my life, my opinion is that regardless of the co-signer being responsible for the loan only, IF a  human life, or oher extreme liability becomes an issue, litigation will be started against both the driver and co-signer.

Reminds me of the value of pre-nuptial agreements: So many times they were tossed out of court based on "misunderstanding the content when it was signed".    imp


----------



## WhatInThe (Jan 1, 2016)

imp said:


> Having dealt with the legal profession all my life, my opinion is that regardless of the co-signer being responsible for the loan only, IF a  human life, or oher extreme liability becomes an issue, litigation will be started against both the driver and co-signer.
> 
> Reminds me of the value of pre-nuptial agreements: So many times they were tossed out of court based on "misunderstanding the content when it was signed".    imp



My fear is exactly that. I don't think the co signer should be able to be sued but I can see some lawyers saying IF they hadn't co signed that loan knowing the actual buyer has drinking and driving issues etc. But the actual driver, buyer and their insurance should theoretically absorb all the liability-theoretically.  I guess the co signer could say they had a valid license and isn't a certified drug counselor so how should they know. The problem is the buyer has been working under the table and can't produce a pay stub for the loan or lease.

 Being the parent they feel obligated to do something for their child which they will with down payment money. But I told them tell the kid have the girl friend/partner co sign and you still give them down payment and fee money.


----------



## applecruncher (Jan 1, 2016)

WhatInThe, I don't know why you keep referring to this 50-something man as "the kid".  Anyway, they're gonna do whatever they want. If/when something awful happens, the chips will fall where they may and the police, lawyers, insurance companies, and court will sort it out.


----------



## QuickSilver (Jan 4, 2016)

I dunno...  I just recently co-signed for an apartment lease for my 46 year old "kid"... also an alcoholic.   You just can't give up on your kids IMO..


----------



## AZ Jim (Jan 4, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> It's a senior's child even though an adult with gray hair. I'm afraid they'll be an AARP member before AA.



child
CHīld/
_noun_
noun: *child*; plural noun: *children*
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.

synonyms:youngster, little one, boy, girl; Morebaby, newborn, infant, toddler; 
cherub, angel; 
schoolboy, schoolgirl; 
minor, junior, preteen; 
son, daughter, descendant; 
_informal_kid, kiddie, tot, tyke, young ’un, lad, rug rat, ankle-biter; 
_derogatory_brat, guttersnipe, urchin, gamin, gamine; 
_literary_babe, babe in arms; 
offspring, progeny, issue, brood, descendants 
"a well-behaved child"







*a son or daughter of any age.

* 
*an immature or irresponsible person.
"she's such a child!"
*


----------



## QuickSilver (Jan 4, 2016)

What else are you going to call you progeny?


----------



## applecruncher (Jan 4, 2016)

I didn’t get the impression the man was OP’s son. I think he would have said so (although I got the impression it’s a close relative).

As far as what else to call “progeny”/offspring, it’s not as if there are no options. Son, daughter works for most people. Or maybe their first name, or even "their son Bob"/My daughter Sue". I’ve never known of anyone who refers to a 50 yr old as a kid. I just find it odd, but I guess it’s not all that important.

To get back to the issue – co-signing sometimes works out, and sometimes it doesn’t. Co-signing for someone who has repeatedly messed up and been irresponsible usually doesn’t.

As I’ve already said, the chips will fall wherever they may.


----------



## QuickSilver (Jan 4, 2016)

It goes without saying..  If you are going to co-sign.. you must realize that  (1.) it's possible for you to be left holding the bag.. and that (2.) you have the means and are able to pay if the other person doesn't.


----------



## WhatInThe (Jan 4, 2016)

*Get off the lawn!*

At this point in my life if you are younger, act younger, look younger, are inexperienced at something I might very well refer to you as a kid, the kid, a pup, rookie, newbie etc. If I'm considered a "Get Off The Lawn!" old fart so be it. In more than one setting social or work as the youngest or newest in/to the group I frequently got "Ah, you're just a pup, just a kid" etc and never thought twice about it.

Behavior in combination with age in this case and others merit ' the kid ' or  'these kids now a days'.


----------



## applecruncher (Jan 4, 2016)

WhatInThe - I see. Fair enough. 

Trust me, I have some "Get off my lawn" traits myself.  (If the ball comes into my yard one more time, it's MINE! )


----------



## imp (Jan 4, 2016)

And you know who you are!   imp


----------



## applecruncher (Jan 4, 2016)

imponderable


----------



## QuickSilver (Jan 5, 2016)

I believe he is referring to "splitting hairs"   for some reason


----------



## applecruncher (Jan 5, 2016)

I wasn't asking for assistance. I know _exactly_ what he's doing.


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 5, 2016)

QS, thanks for clearing it up for me. I was confused.


----------



## QuickSilver (Jan 5, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> QS, thanks for clearing it up for me. I was confused.




No problem....  it took me a second too..


----------



## imp (Jan 5, 2016)

It was meant to convey in a non-combative way, that the horse is already dead. 

Sheesh, some folks take offense at _everything!

_What's "pfffft", anyhow??    imp


----------



## jujube (Jan 5, 2016)

imp said:


> It was meant to convey in a non-combative way, that the horse is already dead.


----------



## Manatee (Jan 12, 2016)

Many years ago I was told by a car salesman that I knew that a cosigner is "an a$$hole with a fountain pen".  I have never doubted his word.

Liquor loving son should be told to "earn some money and go to a thrift shop and buy a bicycle".  He desperately needs an incentive to shape up.  Enabling will only make a bad situation worse.


----------

