# Questions to ask at senior living facility



## debodun (Jun 3, 2016)

I am going for a tour of an independent senior living facility next week. Here is their web page:
http://www.coburgvillage.com/

I see they are fairly informative, except for the cost. It sounds like a paradise for me, but I know there are always "little issues". What would be some other good questions to ask that are not covered on the web site?


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## Lon (Jun 3, 2016)

Here's where I live-- and it shows the price.       http://www.apartmentfinder.com/Cali...oaAgDl8P8HAQ&dclid=CLTxxKzjjM0CFchiAQodjP4JNg


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## Guitarist (Jun 3, 2016)

When I clicked on the FAQ link, the tab said "No buy-in" but you're right, deb, it doesn't give much info at all.  I can't even tell if you buy or rent there!  

I don't know which one of their communities you're going to visit (the Rexford one?) but you can always Google the name of the community and add "reviews" and see what people have posted about in online.


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## debodun (Jun 4, 2016)

Yes, it's in Rexford.


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## debodun (Jun 4, 2016)

What is a "no-buy-in"?


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## Buckeye (Jun 4, 2016)

debodun said:


> What is a "no-buy-in"?



When my parents moved into their "senior" facility they had to make an upfront payment of about $200k.  Then so much per month.  When they are both gone, the estate will receive back about 75% of the buy-in.  Their facility is run by the Methodist church, but allows people of all (or no) faiths to be residents.  They are in "independent living" section but can segue to "assisted living", etc, as their needs change.  

A "No buy-in" facility doesn't charge the upfront $$, but I suspect monthly fees are higher.  I will have to start looking into these facilities for myself in the next few years.  Hope to be in one by the time I'm 80 or sooner.


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## debodun (Jun 4, 2016)

It irks me they will not disclose their rates on the web page or over the phone. What's the big secret? Do you have to sign a lease then they will tell you what it costs?


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## Guitarist (Jun 4, 2016)

Those are good questions to ask when you go visit them.  I would not bother to go visit such a mystery place. I would call or e-mail them and ask outright. "Do you rent, or do I buy?" "What does it cost?" If they're withholding that much important information on their website, I would not want to deal with them as a tenant.  All this mystery is no way to do business, and seniors are often targeted by rip-off artists. 

IME, "affordable" senior communities are anything but.


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## Guitarist (Jun 4, 2016)

Those are good questions to ask when you go visit them.  I would not bother to go visit such a mystery place. I would call or e-mail them and ask outright. "Do you rent, or do I buy?" "What does it cost?" If they're withholding that much important information on their website, I would not want to deal with them as a tenant.  All this mystery is no way to do business, and seniors are often targeted by rip-off artists. 

They sound almost like a rip-off car dealership trying to lure you in and learn all about you without giving you any real information in return. 

IME, "affordable" senior communities are anything but.


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## debodun (Jun 4, 2016)

I read this with great interest:

It applies to assisted living, but probably can relate to any senior housing.

http://partners.caring.com/pricing-the-elephant-in-the-senior-housing-living-room/


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## Guitarist (Jun 4, 2016)

Interesting article about assisted living, debodun.  Is that what you're looking for?  I think they can play that game more, because people may "need" their services more, whereas independent living is a choice -- a lot of people just stay in their own homes and deal with businesses themselves so they're not gonna put up with coyness and other games.  

The site you started this thread is one of only about 2-3 I've seen that doesn't mention prices upfront.  The others do, which is how I've learned that "affordable" is often not.  It's wasting their time as well as prospective tenants' time to do a whole visit/interview if both parties don't know they can afford the rent/purchase price.  The fact that they don't post this amount upfront on their site means to me that they are very expensive; it's like those menus at pricey restaurants that don't in fact post the prices: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."  

Sucks but it is what it is.


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## Butterfly (Jun 5, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> Interesting article about assisted living, debodun.  Is that what you're looking for?  I think they can play that game more, because people may "need" their services more, whereas independent living is a choice -- a lot of people just stay in their own homes and deal with businesses themselves so they're not gonna put up with coyness and other games.
> 
> The site you started this thread is one of only about 2-3 I've seen that doesn't mention prices upfront.  The others do, which is how I've learned that "affordable" is often not.  It's wasting their time as well as prospective tenants' time to do a whole visit/interview if both parties don't know they can afford the rent/purchase price.  The fact that they don't post this amount upfront on their site means to me that they are very expensive; it's like those menus at pricey restaurants that don't in fact post the prices: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."
> 
> Sucks but it is what it is.



I agree, Guitarist.  I wouldn't bother to go see a place if I didn't know whether or not it was in my ballpark, and I'd tell the place that. I understand that they might not be able to give you an exact price, but they could certainly give you a price range of their units.


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## debodun (Jun 5, 2016)

What I always laugh up my sleeve about are the "resident testimonials" giving glowing comments about the facilities. There's no way to prove who made the statements or whether the management made them up. And, of course, they aren't going to put negative comments from people that have any beefs.


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## Manatee (Jun 8, 2016)

We bought our condo for cash.  When we go out feet first, our kids will inherit it.  It is a condo in a 3 story building.  There are 94 buildings and 2 rec centers, 2 golf courses.  The beach is a few miles away.  Shopping and restaurants are "outside" but convenient.


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## Buckeye (Jun 8, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> When I clicked on the FAQ link, the tab said "No buy-in" but you're right, deb, it doesn't give much info at all.  I can't even tell if you buy or rent there!
> 
> I don't know which one of their communities you're going to visit (the Rexford one?) but you can always Google the name of the community and add "reviews" and see what people have posted about in online.


Says on the "financial services" page that you are leasing.  One month rent = the security department.  Did not give rates, though.


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## Buckeye (Jun 8, 2016)

Manatee said:


> We bought our condo for cash.  When we go out feet first, our kids will inherit it.  It is a condo in a 3 story building.  *There are 94 buildings* and 2 rec centers, 2 golf courses.  The beach is a few miles away.  Shopping and restaurants are "outside" but convenient.



94 buildings?  Then you need more than 2 rec centers.....


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## nitelite (Jun 8, 2016)

Hidden information is always a sign/red flag that it is not good for the consumer. An upfront organization will publicized at least an estimated price range. You inquired about what questions to ask. If I was interested, I would ask for a copy of their By-Laws and plan on reading a book size document. There are plenty of lovely reasonably price senior housing out there. Good Luck!


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## Butterfly (Jun 9, 2016)

Debodun, did you go there yet?  What did you find out?


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## debodun (Jun 9, 2016)

Yes, I took the tour on Wednesday. Coburg looks like a very well-organized, clean and service-provided facility. What I found out is that:

 if you want TV or Internet service, you have to pay extra for that (it's not included) and then the phone is $1 to dial an outside line and 25¢ a minute after that

only one gratis meal a day is allowed (if you require more food, you can pay at their food service venues or cook your own)

 everything is white - appliances, walls, carpeting (my cats will have a good time on that white rug!). 

I felt a little claustrophobic in those small rooms, but that's part of the adjustment after living in a 2500 sq ft house to compare with a 900 sq ft residence. 

I would like to tour other senior facilities, though, before deciding.


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## Guitarist (Jun 9, 2016)

You don't need their phone if you've got a cell phone (don't we all?).  Hopefully they don't record all calls made on their system, or even record the calls themselves!  

They don't have kitchens in the apartments?  If they do, do they require people to eat one meal a day in their facility?  

900 sq. ft. is a lot easier to clean than 2500.  

What about bottom-line cost?  What did you find out about that?


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## Myquest55 (Jun 9, 2016)

Most places encourage you to eat at least one meal a day in their dining room.  It forces you to socialize and get out but "require" is a strong word.  My parents have a "condo" in a CCRC (Continuing Care Retirement Community).  They have a nice large kitchen but still take dinners in one of the two dining rooms.  There are several meal plans you can sign up for.  There is also a café and cafeteria style for take out if you're not feeling up to dinner with "friends."  They too, have to pay for extra food or guests, should they need it.  It sounds like a pretty typical set up.  You definitely want to sample the food and definitely want to compare to at least one other place.  Keep us posted!

Oh, I just thought of another service my parents have.  When they lock their door at night, there is a special latch on the outside that flips up.  During the following day, a security guard is supposed to come around and check to see if they have opened the door and re-set their latch.  If it has not been opened, security will knock to see if they are alright or need any help.  That way you know they are being looked after and no one has to wait for days in case of some trauma or illness.


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## Guitarist (Jun 9, 2016)

Myquest55 said:


> Most places encourage you to eat at least one meal a day in their dining room.  It forces you to socialize and get out but "require" is a strong word.  My parents have a "condo" in a CCRC (Continuing Care Retirement Community).  They have a nice large kitchen but still take dinners in one of the two dining rooms.  There are several meal plans you can sign up for.  There is also a café and cafeteria style for take out if you're not feeling up to dinner with "friends."  They too, have to pay for extra food or guests, should they need it.  It sounds like a pretty typical set up.  You definitely want to sample the food and definitely want to compare to at least one other place.  Keep us posted!
> 
> Oh, I just thought of another service my parents have.  When they lock their door at night, there is a special latch on the outside that flips up.  During the following day, a security guard is supposed to come around and check to see if they have opened the door and re-set their latch.  If it has not been opened, security will knock to see if they are alright or need any help.  That way you know they are being looked after and no one has to wait for days in case of some trauma or illness.



I agree that "require" is a strong word, and I used it because many of the senior communities I have looked at REQUIRE residents to eat at least one meal a day in the dining room, unless you can provide medical proof of a dietary restrictions not catered for by the dining room staff.

That thing with the latch sounds scary and controlling to me.  Where I live, residents can CHOOSE to put a hang tag on their door knobs that say something like "if this tag is still here after [fill in the time, a.m.], please check on me.  The hang tag is for neighbors to look out for each other. We do not have security guards roaming our building (thank goodness -- I would feel I were in a prison!). If the hang tag is still there after the hour posted, neighbors can call the office to ask someone to check on the resident, or they can knock or call themselves.  Gives you independence while still keeping an eye out for each other.


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## Butterfly (Jun 9, 2016)

debodun said:


> Yes, I took the tour on Wednesday. Coburg looks like a very well-organized, clean and service-provided facility. What I found out is that:
> 
> if you want TV or Internet service, you have to pay extra for that (it's not included) and then the phone is $1 to dial an outside line and 25¢ a minute after that
> 
> ...




Did you find that it is a place you can afford?  What are you going to do about your house?

I couldn't live with white carpeting -- it just shows every little bit of dirt or spill.


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## debodun (Jun 10, 2016)

There are kitchens in the apartments and it's not required that you eat the one meal provided per day in their dining rooms (I did ask about a dress code for dining and they do have one). I figured my household expenses such as utilities, taxes, upkeep, insurance, heating, trash service, etc. and, according to my calculations, it would cost me three times as much to live there as it does now, but I would have less hassle with lawn care, snow removal and maintenance (and maybe my nightmares abut the house collapsing would stop). There are also things I would still have to pay for like doctor bills, renter's insurance, car insurance, etc. that I would no matter what. My biggest concern is moving there, then not being able to sell my house and I'd end up paying for 2 residences. There are dozens of home for sale even in my rural locale that have been on the market over 3 years (see Zillow map). Still food for thought.


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## Shalimar (Jun 10, 2016)

Are you allowed to paint the place? All that white, ugh, so cold.


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## debodun (Jun 10, 2016)

When I asked about bringing my own carpet, I was told the apartments already have wall-to-wall carpeting. We didn't get into wall color, but I would assume what's there is the way they want it. Another thing, even if you want to hang a picture on the wall, you have place a work order with the maintenance staff.


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## Shalimar (Jun 10, 2016)

Deb, it seems a bit dictatorial to me, particularly if it is expensive. The picture thing is ludicrous.


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## Ray (Jun 10, 2016)

The term "senior living" can actually more than one thing. There are "active adult" communities where there is an age restriction to live there (55). Then there are the places that are "independent living" but often have various elements of assisted living available as needs increase. And then there are assisted living facilities that offer meals, cleaning and medical - but there is the thing you have to check carefully, the degree of medical assistance available. I've had friends enjoy a place until one of the partners needed more (dementia had set in). He got shipped out and she stayed.In another case the wife got dementia and the husband was told to move her, the facility could not deal with her - you really do not want to hear that.

So, depending on your needs and desires today and a realistic look at the future, there are a lot of questions you must ask and, before committing, get it in writing that you will be getting what you think you are.

The reputable ones that provide for whatever the future may bring are not inexpensive, but a lot less expensive than trying to get the services when they are needed.

On more thought - when on the "tour" you want to try to see yourself not visiting but living there. I operate on the theory - "It's Thursday afternoon. What am I doing - and am I smiling?".


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## Myquest55 (Jun 10, 2016)

Again, I have to refer to where my parents are - they own their unit and are allowed to do what any condo owner would do - paint, decorate or move walls if they want to.  However, when they relinquish the unit, either to go into nursing care, move out or die, the unit will be completely gutted and everything new installed like it was.  They will get their initial investment back once the unit is re-sold.  I don't know how many square feet they have but it is a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom corner unit in Maris Grove (An Erickson Community in Glen Mills, PA - just north of the Delaware border, east of Rt. 202).  They bought it in 2007 for around $250,000-new construction.   I also think they pay around $2500/month which pretty much includes everything like basic cable, utilities, recycle and trash as well as access to the facilities like pool, theater, meeting rooms, library, etc.  I would expect to pay extra for services like the spa & hair salon or equipment rental, or garden plot.  We are flying up next weekend so I maybe I can get a sales flyer and list of fees.  I have to say - it is like living on a cruise ship and the food is amazing!   Too bad we have no interest in living in that area.

We DO plan to position ourselves near a place like this so we can ultimately transition into that when we're ready.  I have done a lot of research online.  Some are happily forthcoming with any information you need and their costs are readily accessed.  Some are very protective of their information and I agree, it makes it hard to make a decision.  Lets not waste everyone's time.  I realize that markets change and fees change but there should be some range so people can gauge their budget.  It should not be hard to make adjustments to the website as things change.  Most places will happily send you information via USMail.  I have several packets and we pretty much decided that if we have to ask - we cannot afford it.  I appreciate that you are sharing your experience here!!


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## debodun (Jun 12, 2016)

I had called another area independent senior facility and was informed that they were having an "open house" on Saturday, so I decided to go and see what they had to offer. When I walked in and told the first person I saw that I was there for the open house, she seemed totally flustered, like she wasn't even aware there was one. She said (let's call him Andy), "Andy usually handles these things but he isn't here right now." She scooped up some papers from her desk and gave me what I would call a whirlwind tour (probably not even 20 minutes) which included looking at the "spa", community room, art room, pool, bar and a demo apartment (one they keep just to show as an example). After this she gave me a pamphlet about the facility and showed me the door saying that if I had any questions to call. I did not receive a good impression from this - the very nervous receptionist who wasn't aware there was an open house, where was the mysterious Andy that was supposed to be handling guests, not being offered a chair to sit and discuss my needs and concerns, not even offered glass of water (being an open house I expected at least coffee and donuts for guests) and being given a cook's tour followed by a bum's rush out the door.


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## Shalimar (Jun 12, 2016)

Eek, Deb, what an experience. I would definitely steer clear of that place.


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## Lethe200 (Jun 15, 2016)

>>even if you want to hang a picture on the wall, you have place a work order with the maintenance staff.>>

It's probably due to insurance liability issues. And if you have ever been a landlord, you really do not want just anybody picking up a power tool to drill into a wall. Most of these facilities have fire-resistant drywall or even lightweight concrete walls, because fire is a HUGE nightmare for a group facility of any kind.


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## debodun (Jun 29, 2016)

I've been to about half a dozen "independent" senior facilities now. It amazes me when I ask the representative a pointed question, how much they can say without actually giving a "yes" or "no" answer - like smoke and mirrors. One even told me I had to pay them $100 so they could do a background check on me! I find it difficult to believe I have to pay for that. One took it upon themselves to mail me their 10 page lease agreement only an attorney would understand - who could wade through all that legalese? One representative said housekeeping was included, but on speaking to one of the lessee's relatives I met outside, they said that it was "housekeeping" in name only; a joke really. About all they do is vacuum the floor where there isn't any furniture. And I get a general feeling that these facilities are only interested in leasing an apartment as quick as they can and aren't really that interested in a client's needs and concerns. They will say and promise anything to get a room rented - like a car sales agent.


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## Butterfly (Jun 30, 2016)

I found the same thing to be true when I was helping look for a place for my boss's mother a few years ago.  Why can't those places just give you a straight answer about things?  It seems like it would save them (and you) a lot of time and trouble.    As to those awful contracts, I'd get a lawyer (the senior citizens law centers have people who will do that for  you at a far reduced price) before I signed one of those things.  Those things can be intimidating even to those of us who are familiar with legal gobbledygook, and I sure wouldn't sign one without an attorney looking at it.  You sure wouldn't find out you had signed something that contained a great big pothole you hadn't anticipated.  Could cost you a buncha money down the line.


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