# Happy Columbo Day!  But did he really discover America?



## Ralphy1 (Oct 13, 2014)

There are many who say that he did not, and there is a long list of contenders for who was first.  For most of us it really doesn't matter that much, and we go with Columbus as we learned in school in the past.  AND, any excuse to have a three day weekend will do!  Cheers!


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## Hagrid (Oct 13, 2014)

Yeah, the long weekend is great. Of course, all weekends have been long for me for quite a while but I remember the nice break from work.
For me, the whole idea of which Europeans got to North America first is purely academic - but interesting! I enjoy learning about the different theories.
And some novel I read recently pointed out that a city in the Southwest, complete with Spanish governor's mansion, was already pretty old at the time that the pilgrims sat down for their first Thanksgiving dinner.


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## oakapple (Oct 13, 2014)

Did he take time out from being a detective in a grubby raincoat to find America?


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 13, 2014)

Yes, he had impressive skills...


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

I'm kind of surprised that Native Americans haven't demanded a change in name for this holiday. 

"....Once again, it's time to celebrate Columbus Day. Yet, the stunning truth is: IfChristopher Columbus were alive today, he would be put on trial for crimes against humanity. Columbus' reign of terror, as documented by noted historians, was so bloody, his legacy so unspeakably cruel, that Columbus makes a modern villain like Saddam Hussein look like a pale codfish...."  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-kasum/columbus-day-a-bad-idea_b_742708.html
And if you read the above link, he was truly remarkable for his brutality and sadism.  Babies fed to dogs for food, cutting off the hands of slow workers, selling girls into ****** slavery......

Change the name please, honour his victims and not the butcher.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 13, 2014)

Are you trying to ruin my childhood image of this wonderful explorer that Miss Truly provide for her students in the fourth grade?


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

So your history books do paint a lovely rosy picture of this animal?  I was just reading through a litany of his atrocities and he makes Hitler sound like Mary Poppins!  And black folks in America should be demanding a replacement holiday too because after he got finished with the native's, he turned his sights on black slaves.   Why is this beast so revered?  He didn't even actually discover America as folk lore suggests.  The whole thing is a lie.


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## oakapple (Oct 13, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Are you trying to ruin my childhood image of this wonderful explorer that Miss Truly provide for her students in the fourth grade?


 Yes, he was always kind to children and animals, washed his hands before meals and always said please, and thank you.The trouble is, what he did [or didn't do, I have no idea to be honest] was a long way in the past. The past is another country, they do things differently there, [to steal a phrase.]I suppose if enought people feel strongly enough about it, it could bring a change of name, but I doubt that will happen.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 13, 2014)

Good thing Miss Truly isn't around to hear this revisionist history...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

I've heard horrible things about the REAL Columbus.. I don't think he's all that revered here.. or even given much thought.. It's a post office holiday.. kids get off school I think..not sure... Other than that no big deal.   Didn't we get our name from Amerigo Vespucci?


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> ..... Other than that no big deal.   Didn't we get our name from Amerigo Vespucci?




Name your country after some Italian merchant, who cares.  But did you read about Columbus?  Do you have no qualms about celebrating a lie about a man who as I said before,  as bad as Hitler or maybe even worse than?  And you might choose to call it a post office holiday, but the fact of the matter is, he is still remembered and his exploits (discovery of America) are apparently taught and without mention of the horrible atrocities he perpetrated.

Maybe Germany should start celebrating Hitler Day if historical bad acts are of no importance.  Or Cambodia can have a Pol Pot Day, Russia can have Stalin's Gulag Weekend, the Catholic Church can have Inquisition Week......


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## rt3 (Oct 13, 2014)

who ever wins the war and has the guns sets the holidays.  (they also get the gold)


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## Ameriscot (Oct 13, 2014)

If you want the real scoop on Columbus, read this book:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/b...s-c-mann-book-review.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Lots of other interesting stuff in it as well.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

Debby said:


> Name your country after some Italian merchant, who cares. But did you read about Columbus? Do you have no qualms about celebrating a lie about a man who as I said before, as bad as Hitler or maybe even worse than? And you might choose to call it a post office holiday, but the fact of the matter is, he is still remembered and his exploits (discovery of America) are apparently taught and without mention of the horrible atrocities he perpetrated.
> 
> Maybe Germany should start celebrating Hitler Day if historical bad acts are of no importance. Or Cambodia can have a Pol Pot Day, Russia can have Stalin's Gulag Weekend, the Catholic Church can have Inquisition Week......




I personally don't celebrate columbus day....and I don't write school curriculum. It's a non issue for me..I have other things to get upset about..


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

America (the so-called Christian nation) celebrates a mass murderer!  Who woulda thunk it?


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

Debby said:


> America (the so-called Christian nation) celebrates a mass murderer! Who woulda thunk it?



Good grief...........   :yawning:     You are sounding like a one hit wonder Debby...


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## rt3 (Oct 13, 2014)

what are you going to call it?  Polynesian day.  Its about land claims and property rights, nothing else


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## Falcon (Oct 13, 2014)

I think it was Leif Ericson who discovered America  LONG before  old Chris has been given the credit for.

Thanks for all the info re: Columbus.  I didn't know all that. Gonna study up on that.

Also it was Columbus who gave the Native Americans the name "Indian".


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## Davey Jones (Oct 13, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I've heard horrible things about the REAL Columbus.. I don't think he's all that revered here.. or even given much thought.. It's a post office holiday.. kids get off school I think..not sure... Other than that no big deal. Didn't we get our name from Amerigo Vespucci?



THERE ,fix it for ya(g)
I've heard horrible things about the REAL Jesus.. I don't think he's all that revered here.. or even given much thought..


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## WhatInThe (Oct 13, 2014)

Hagrid said:


> Yeah, the long weekend is great. Of course, all weekends have been long for me for quite a while but I remember the nice break from work.
> For me, the whole idea of which Europeans got to North America first is purely academic - but interesting! I enjoy learning about the different theories.
> And some novel I read recently pointed out that a city in the Southwest, complete with Spanish governor's mansion, was already pretty old at the time that the pilgrims sat down for their first Thanksgiving dinner.



Exactly. If not Columbus someone else. And he allegedly "discovered" America. He didn't invent it. I do understand some of consternation and see the ignorance associated with the man & holiday. I've seen some communities actually legislate name changes from the original name of area or street named after local tribes in favor of Columbus and others. Too me that shows arrogance and ignorance.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> THERE ,fix it for ya(g)
> I've heard horrible things about the REAL Jesus.. I don't think he's all that revered here.. or even given much thought..




Would you care to explain your post? Or are you just TRYING to be clever.. If so... you are failing miserabley..  But it's not surprising... when a Republican can't think of anything else... they question someones religious beliefs...  par for the course.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> Exactly. If not Columbus someone else. And he allegedly "discovered" America. He didn't invent it. I do understand some of consternation and see the ignorance associated with the man & holiday. I've seen some communities actually legislate name changes from the original name of area or street named after local tribes in favor of Columbus and others. Too me that shows arrogance and ignorance.




I haven't thought about columbus since grade school, and that was because we had a 3 day weekend..


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## AprilT (Oct 13, 2014)

I no longer care what people think of the man, I only think of it as a day of sales and it just used to be a day off for me. It's really semantics, what the holiday really represents is who paved the way to claim, resettle and conquered the americas to make it the home that is the USofA.  But in the mean time as far as people that reached the shores prior to or first discovered the already occupied regions see below for what some others have to say.

Here ya go.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...ca-discovery-history-education-documentary_tv

http://www.whiteoutpress.com/timeless/who-really-discovered-america/


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

I forgot about the Sales April.... but I've always had to work on Columbus day..  Most places have the sale for a week or so though..


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Good grief...........   :yawning:     You are sounding like a one hit wonder Debby...




At least I'm consistent right?  I think where I'm running into trouble here is that I just can't bring myself to venerate or look up to or even emotionally accept horrific violence.

 Columbus was a scum bag and shouldn't have anything named after him.  If anything, he should be obliterated from the history book as 'the discoverer of America' and those same books should tell the truth of what he was.  Honesty and integrity calls for that instead of 'defence' or rationalization.  Or maybe for the sake of consistency, you can have a John Wayne Gacey Day, or hold Jeffrey Dahmer Sale Days......


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

oakapple said:


> Yes, he was always kind to children and animals, washed his hands before meals and always said please, and thank you.The trouble is, what he did [or didn't do, I have no idea to be honest] was a long way in the past. The past is another country, they do things differently there, [to steal a phrase.]I suppose if enought people feel strongly enough about it, it could bring a change of name, but I doubt that will happen.




http://www.theholidayzone.com/columbus/history.html  Columbus Day was made official in 1937 so it's not that long ago really.  It's not another country, it's the USA and judging by what I've read here, you're probably right, the chances of a name change based on the historical facts are unlikely to happen.  So let's just celebrate every mass murderer and open the prisons because if this guy can get a national holiday named after him, then it seems to me the other miscreants in the system don't belong there!


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

Debby said:


> Hmm, resorting to 'name calling'. Columbus was a scum bag and shouldn't have anything named after him. If anything, he should be obliterated from the history book as 'the discoverer of America' and those same books should tell the truth of what he was. Honesty and integrity calls for that instead of 'defence' or rationalization. Or maybe for the sake of consistency, you can have a John Wayne Gacey Day, or hold Jeffrey Dahmer Sale Days......
> 
> I think where I'm running into trouble here is that I just can't bring myself to venerate or look up to or even emotionally accept horrific violence.



Haven't called you any name.. But it's kind of wierd to me why you care so darn much.. about the USA.. and seem to relish anything you can find to cast the US in a bad light..no matter how trivial.. I never give Canada much of a thought... well perhaps the Hockey teams... Oh.. and maple syrup.. But I don't give a rat's patoot what you name things after. I mean... I know there's a big ole country up north... that's about it.:shrug:


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## Denise1952 (Oct 13, 2014)

Well, the American Indian explored and settled America, unless it was really Ancient Alienslayful:  But you mean "who" came from "the old world" and discovered it.

Gads, after reading some of the comments, I'm really stunned, I had no idea there were stories about columbus that were so horrible!!  I have no clue about him, only what I heard in school, and I don't trust all of what I heard in school, and can only wonder what the kids are learning today

Here's one blog I found on it, I'm going to read the rest, and thank all of you for the information, geesh!  Just when you think you know everything, see, we are never too old to learn something

http://mrhaston-history.blogspot.com/2012/08/christopher-columbus-hitler-of-15th.html


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## WhatInThe (Oct 13, 2014)

To most Americans it's a day off and sales. Some companies and workplaces have so many holidays the meaning gets lost in the translation good or bad. Many retailers just want an excuse for to have a "special" sale.

 The problem is that the part of the population that push these holidays live life through their ethnicity, not their country. Which is hypocritical in many cases. Because those same ethnic groups will pounce on someone else's ethnicity, religion or country for their own benefit. 

I don't have a problem noting the day but should they be shutting down streets for parades, closing schools and government offices for one ethnicity. Should NYC streets be shut down on St Patties Day? To me I'm an American. To be honest I don't give too hoots what my ancestors did hundreds of years ago. Nor do I make an identity based on them. 

Just a side note but probably for commercial reasons a see a lot more advertisements for Ocktoberfest this year. Perhaps there were too many who remember WWII in the past. But I see a larger push this year and it's probably for the bar and beer business. Holidays like these are just ANOTHER excuse to drink to access. Same for St Patties Day. You take the alcohol, days off and/or sales out of the picture most wouldn't give a crap about these days, individuals or countries.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

I don't know of one single Italian American that gives a crap about Columbus..


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## WhatInThe (Oct 13, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Well, the American Indian explored and settled America, unless it was really Ancient Alienslayful:  But you mean "who" came from "the old world" and discovered it.
> 
> Gads, after reading some of the comments, I'm really stunned, I had no idea there were stories about columbus that were so horrible!!  I have no clue about him, only what I heard in school, and I don't trust all of what I heard in school, and can only wonder what the kids are learning today
> 
> ...



Can only wonder what the kids are learning today. Yup. If you ever travel to places like California NY or Florida you should actually know the history of the European explorers which will explain a lot of things. I regret forgetting or not learning more about those explorers and their countries/history because again it explains a lot about the make up or culture of those states and many cities. The Euro explorers and the subsequent settlements & occupations are still being felt today in parts of the world.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 13, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> THERE ,fix it for ya(g)
> I've heard horrible things about the REAL Jesus.. I don't think he's all that revered here.. or even given much thought..



It's true Davey, we hear this and we hear that, or we read this or we read that.  I mean geez, it wasn't that long ago that I "heard" the "landing on the moon" was faked, and that there was, no holocaust.  What in the .... are we supposed to believe?  I guess we have to take our best guess hey.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 13, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> Can only wonder what the kids are learning today. Yup. If you ever travel to places like California NY or Florida you should actually know the history of the European explorers which will explain a lot of things. I regret forgetting or not learning more about those explorers and their countries/history because again it explains a lot about the make up or culture of those states and many cities. The Euro explorers and the subsequent settlements & occupations are still being felt today in parts of the world.



All through history someone is conquering someone else, whoever's strongest or maybe smartest wins the pie.  It's all pretty ugly when you look at the history of man.  I mean yes, there were some good, humane people along the way, but the "uglies" omg, and they are still alive and well.  It's like nothing is really new (s).  ISIS is the worst of all, so everyone says, but now I find out Columbus was a Hitler.

By the way, todays just another day for me.


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Haven't called you any name.. But it's kind of wierd to me why you care so darn much.. about the USA.. and seem to relish anything you can find to cast the US in a bad light..no matter how trivial.. I never give Canada much of a thought... well perhaps the Hockey teams... Oh.. and maple syrup.. But I don't give a rat's patoot what you name things after. I mean... I know there's a big ole country up north... that's about it.:shrug:




Well QuickSilver, like I've explained before, when the USA sneezes the rest of the world catches cold so I tend to pay attention.  And in this forum, it does seem that Americans predominate so naturally, you guys are going to mention things like Columbus Day and the mere mention of that mans name (as I have read about him prior to this day) makes my skin crawl so I commented on it.

And I fully understand that you don't give Canada or Canadians a thought.  You are typical of many other Americans in that regard and that was ably demonstrated when our Rick Mercer did a piece on how much you guys know about us.  It was hilarious actually and one of the high points in the video was when Governor Mike Huckabee agreed that we should build a dome over our 'National Igloo' (where we hold our Parliamentary business) to keep it from melting.  So without further ado, here is a (rather poor quality video and sorry about that) of Rick Mercer talking about our National Igloo.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTZ_tgMUdo


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## Meanderer (Oct 13, 2014)




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## Vivjen (Oct 13, 2014)

That I can cope with, Meanderer


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

Me too Meanderer...   Happy Columbo Day to you too!!!:sorrytku:


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## oakapple (Oct 13, 2014)

Well done Meanderer, that's a good one.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 13, 2014)

These "your" country "my country" disputes crop up around here, it's an international forum.  I think we all need to remember though (I know I do) that people are in all these countries, and people are not all that different.  All kinds, all types of thinking, beliefs, make different laws etc.  I know there's never going to be "peace on Earth", in places maybe, but not the whole planet because of man/woman's ego.

I love that movie Independence Day (omg, I could start another, mass war here about that holiday:badgirl because aliens come to devour everyone, and everything on Earth.  But guess what, people leave their "petty differences" aside, or behind, and ban together to save Earth!!  That's would be a dream come true.

For the record, I love Canada, all the wonderful stories about my ancestors that came there from Wales, and France.  I think it's always best for me to keep my eyes on my own backyard though.  When my place is perfect, then maybe I can say something about someone elses, just makes good sense to me.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 13, 2014)

Meanderer said:


>



This guy was one of my faves, we've had some good one's for sure


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## AprilT (Oct 13, 2014)

Debby said:


> Well QuickSilver, like I've explained before, when the USA sneezes the rest of the world catches cold.  And in this forum, it does seem that Americans predominate so naturally, you guys are going to mention things like Columbus Day and the mere mention of that mans name (as I have read about him prior to this day) makes my skin crawl so I commented on it.
> 
> And I fully understand that you don't give Canada or Canadians a thought.  You are typical of many other Americans in that regard and that was ably demonstrated when our Rick Mercer did a piece on how much you guys know about us.  It was hilarious actually and one of the high points in the video was when your own politician, Governor Mike Huckabee agreed that we should build a dome over our 'National Igloo' (where we hold our Parliamentary business) to keep it from melting.  So without further ado, here is a (rather poor quality video and sorry about that) of Rick Mercer talking about our National Igloo.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTZ_tgMUdo




LOL!  That was pretty funny, but all I have to say is Rob Ford.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

Debby said:


> Well QuickSilver, like I've explained before, when the USA sneezes the rest of the world catches cold. And in this forum, it does seem that Americans predominate so naturally, you guys are going to mention things like Columbus Day and the mere mention of that mans name (as I have read about him prior to this day) makes my skin crawl so I commented on it.
> 
> And I fully understand that you don't give Canada or Canadians a thought. You are typical of many other Americans in that regard and that was ably demonstrated when our Rick Mercer did a piece on how much you guys know about us. It was hilarious actually and one of the high points in the video was when your own politician, Governor Mike Huckabee agreed that we should build a dome over our 'National Igloo' (where we hold our Parliamentary business) to keep it from melting. So without further ado, here is a (rather poor quality video and sorry about that) of Rick Mercer talking about our National Igloo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?
> 
> ...




I'm sorry Debby, but your posts are not even worth reading any more... For whatever reason you are fixated on the big ole stupid meanie to your South.. It's really gotten kind of funny.. You will pull out any old piece of crap to prove how stupid and bad Americans are..   I've got your number now hun..  I'm done engaging you.. It's getting boring.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

AprilT said:


> LOL! That was pretty funny, but all I have to say is Rob Ford.



:lofl: Good one April...


Oh Look!!! Canada has dirty laundry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_political_scandals

 Can you believe it???  The Canadian Crack-head is at the end of a VERY long list..


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## Denise1952 (Oct 13, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> :lofl: Good one April...
> 
> 
> Oh Look!!! Canada has dirty laundry
> ...



I thought you were done engaging Debby?


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

nwlady said:


> I thought you were done engaging Debby?




I AM......  I was talking to April!!  hahahahahaha


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## Denise1952 (Oct 13, 2014)

Oh, well that makes perfect sense that you would do that, now that you mention it.


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## WhatInThe (Oct 13, 2014)

nwlady said:


> All through history someone is conquering someone else, whoever's strongest or maybe smartest wins the pie.  It's all pretty ugly when you look at the history of man.  I mean yes, there were some good, humane people along the way, but the "uglies" omg, and they are still alive and well.  It's like nothing is really new (s).  ISIS is the worst of all, so everyone says, but now I find out Columbus was a Hitler.
> 
> By the way, todays just another day for me.



Besides the demographics I think you can see 'some' of the original explorers in first generation immigrants from countries that are still mostly third world because without a more thorough education or exposures to other cultures the behavior, mindset and/or attitude is that much closer to the original settlers & peoples in their country. Or places and countries where outsiders have been shunned or reluctant to go. Without changes or something different things will remain the same.

Should add that in the history of humanity it has usually been to the winner go the spoils. The methods could be questionable but the result is still the same


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## Denise1952 (Oct 13, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> Besides the demographics I think you can see 'some' of the original explorers in first generation immigrants from countries that are still mostly third world because without a more thorough education or exposures to other cultures the behavior, mindset and/or attitude is that much closer to the original settlers & peoples in their country. Or places and countries where outsiders have been shunned or reluctant to go. Without changes or something different things will remain the same.



Boy you got that right, I like how "change" is always brought up by the politicians running for office "I'm gonna change this and that".  I don't think some things will ever change, but I guess it's healthier for our heart's to look at the good changes that are taking place.  I know here in America, being brought up, is so different then in say Africa, or the 3rd, world countries.  I don't know, I'm rambling now.  I just need to go out and find some people being nice to other people, no matter what color they are, how much money they have or don't have, how handsome or beautiful they are.  Restore my hopes for humanity.


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

Yep, Rob Ford is a piece of work isn't he?  And yep, long list of miscreants and malefactors there.  I wasn't around (or paying attention) for most of them, but regarding Pamela Wallin, Mike Duffy and Patrick Brazeau, my government got a goodly number of emails from me on how they better be punished if not thrown in the pokey for their crimes against the taxpayer.  They were kind of the epicentre of my awakening as regards politics and foreign affairs.  (See how easy that is?)   I don't hide from the embarrassment of having those issues in our history because that never changes anything does it?  

Again, like I've said several times before, we are all citizens of the globe these days and what happens in one country can affect the other side of the world.  So when you see something that is wrong, stand up and be counted.  That's why I have no problem with American climate activists coming up to this country to speak out against our 'tar sands' or potential pipe line problems.  

For example, did you know that the Canadian government was guilty of opposing labelling asbestos as a hazardous material because they wanted to protect the export to Third World countries.  And who suffered in that?  Why the poor people who worked with the stuff and didn't know they were giving themselves cancer because they weren't aware that it required protective gear to just work with it.  http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/06/22/canada-opposes-labeling-asbestos-as-hazardous/  Happily, they finally were forced (by public opinion?) to accept that labelling must be done, in 2012.  That was the end of an industry in this country and specifically in Quebec.  And we're left with the sure and certain knowledge that numerous families are living and dying with the results of my governments recalcitrant attitude about honesty and health of people in other countries.


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I'm sorry Debby, but your posts are not even worth reading any more... For whatever reason you are fixated on the big ole stupid meanie to your South.. It's really gotten kind of funny.. You will pull out any old piece of crap to prove how stupid and bad Americans are..   I've got your number now hun..  I'm done engaging you.. It's getting boring.





You know, I don't think you 'have my number' at all.  Your perspective as far as I can tell, is that I am just out to bash America for the sake of the bashing and it's your right to hold whatever opinion you want.  But what really bothers me is violence, hypocrisy, stealing.......all of those bad things and I refuse to turn a blind eye even if it's my country or somebody that I 'like'.  

On the other hand if a person or group sees their own failings and turns away from those activities, I'll applaud and joyfully give them a second chance because we all make mistakes.  But when I see someone consistently or continuously or deliberately hurting or taking away from others to fill their own pockets or achieve power to fulfil their own agenda, I'll call it out no matter who they are.  I'm an 'equal opportunity tattle-tale' and proud of it.


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## Meanderer (Oct 13, 2014)

USA and Canada are still neighbors!


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## Denise1952 (Oct 13, 2014)

Meanderer said:


> USA and Canada are still neighbors!



So true, I'm darn glad to have them as neighbors too


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## oldman (Oct 13, 2014)

This is Columbus Day?


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## Denise1952 (Oct 13, 2014)

oldman said:


> This is Columbus Day?



LOL, you OM, I wouldn't have known except for my sister telling me  She keeps track of all that stuff  You can bet I know when Veteran's, Thanksgiving, Halloween, Christmas and New Years day are though


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

nwlady said:


> LOL, you OM, I wouldn't have known except for my sister telling me She keeps track of all that stuff You can bet I know when Veteran's, Thanksgiving, Halloween, Christmas and New Years day are though



I didn't know it either.. until this thread that is...   So much for it being a huge deal I guess


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## oldman (Oct 13, 2014)

Man, I gotta run out to the mall and buy something. I would hate to miss out on all of those Columbus Days sales.


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## oakapple (Oct 13, 2014)

The really strange thing is....I had never heard of this Columbus Day before this thread. I went and made dinner, and then watched an old Sopranos episode, and you won't believe it [I almost didn't] it was all about the rows over Columbus Day, and the Italians fighting with the Native Indians in the streets of New Jersey, over having a parade! What are the chances of that ?
Thre's sure to be someone who does statistics on here who can tell me.


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## Meanderer (Oct 13, 2014)

oldman said:


> This is Columbus Day?


It's actually October 12, but it was moved to fall on a Monday, for Columbu$ Day $ales I guess!


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## AprilT (Oct 13, 2014)

LOL!  Like most I hadn't any idea about today either till this thread, it was the furthers thing from my mind, even my mind is the furthest thing from my person, so, who cares, but still some interesting and fun chow in the thread.

darn, there's my timer telling me to move my laundry from the washer to the dryer.  gotta go face real world troubles.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

I got a nice deal on a winter coat Saturday... maybe it was a pre-Columbus day sale..


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

nwlady said:


> So true, I'm darn glad to have them as neighbors too




Good grief yeah!  I feel the same way about having America as our neighbour too.  We could both do a lot worse couldn't we?


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

AprilT said:


> LOL!  ....... even my mind is the furthest thing from my person,......






I have days like that too!  Makes every day an adventure doesn't it?


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## AprilT (Oct 13, 2014)

Dang, I just made my way back here and time to put the other load in the dryer.  grrrrrrrrrrrr.  As you all were.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 13, 2014)

Just as Antonio Meucci was the original inventor of the telephone but Alexander Graham Bell got the credit, so too was Cristóvão Colombo given credit for discovering the "New World" when it was already occupied.

The natives were slaughtered and we inherited mattress sales.


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## AprilT (Oct 13, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Just as Antonio Meucci was the original inventor of the telephone but Alexander Graham Bell got the credit, so too was Cristóvão Colombo given credit for discovering the "New World" when it was already occupied.
> 
> *The natives were slaughtered and we inherited mattress sales.*



Yes and we have an even bigger sales right after another fine marking of a false representation,  :thanksgiving:but I doubt many will poo poo those sales when they go out to get the newest mode of telecommunications that day and there on.


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## Debby (Oct 13, 2014)

oakapple said:


> The really strange thing is....I had never heard of this Columbus Day before this thread. I went and made dinner, and then watched an old Sopranos episode, and you won't believe it [I almost didn't] it was all about the rows over Columbus Day, and the Italians fighting with the Native Indians in the streets of New Jersey, over having a parade! What are the chances of that ?
> Thre's sure to be someone who does statistics on here who can tell me.




I've had that sort of thing happen a couple times too.  Do they call that synchronicity and isn't that just a fancy word for weird coincidence?


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

So I have to ask... what was the point of this thread?   Are we supposed to .... do what?  Storm Capital Hill and demand Columbus be exposed for what he was?  Remove the holiday?   Refuse to shop at the Columbus day sales?


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## Meanderer (Oct 13, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> So I have to ask... what was the point of this thread?   Are we supposed to .... do what?  Storm Capital Hill and demand Columbus be exposed for what he was?  Remove the holiday?   Refuse to shop at the Columbus day sales?


...just guessing... that it was a timely topic?


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

Meanderer said:


> ...just guessing... that it was a timely topic?



I know that.... but apparently old Chris was a rotton SOB... and we have Columbus day... So I was just wondering if we need to take some sort of action?


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## SifuPhil (Oct 13, 2014)

I suppose if anyone is the action-taking type they might petition their local school boards to get updated / truthful history curricula, but I wouldn't hold my breath for success any time soon. 



			
				AprilT said:
			
		

> Yes and we have an even bigger sales right after another fine marking of a false representation,  :thanksgiving:but I doubt many will poo poo those sales when they go out to get the newest mode of telecommunications that day and there on.



Ugh - don't even get me started or I'll tell the tales about how the Jamestown colonists resorted to cannibalism and coprophagia ... :sour:

Smoke and mirrors, our entire history ...


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## AprilT (Oct 13, 2014)

I imagine the purpose of this thread is like any other, a means to open discussion on a subject that was on the OP mind.  No need to go out on a war path to unless one wants to make change.  

It's great that people are opening their minds and listening whether they are history buffs, just want to understand why others think or have varying opinions.  Is it only ok to point out others deficiencies as long as we never look at the ones we ourself are comfortable accepting and living with and don't want to recognize as wrong in any way because it would cause a leak in our bubble.

There are people that want change whether anyone here is posting for that purpose, I haven't any idea, sounds like most just want to conversate, maybe open a few eyes but not necessarily want to march on Washington.  The onus is on each individual to what they may with the information given to them, but nothing required just to partake in the discussion other than being able to talk with and hopefully not at each other..  

Alas, I know I ask too much, much of the time including of myself on occasion.

However, there are people acting for change.

Places that have changed the name of the holiday: For starters Birkley, Seattle, Minneapolis.

http://www.wsav.com/story/26725590/seattle-city-council-votes-to-rename-columbus-day

http://www.uticaod.com/article/20141006/NEWS/141009615/?Start=2.  

http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/ind...d_be_renamed_immigrants_day_your_letters.html

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/living/columbus-day-indigenous-people-day/


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## Meanderer (Oct 13, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I know that.... but apparently old Chris was a rotton SOB... and we have Columbus day... So I was just wondering if we need to take some sort of action?


If that's the case,tell him to get in line.


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## AprilT (Oct 13, 2014)

Well incase I don't get to put anymore shots in for evening, some might be happy to know I've been swept up into a tornado, I swear it looks like one is trying to set down outside my window.  I'm sure I'll be knocked off line any minute now.

Play nice kiddies.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 13, 2014)

I for one don't care what the day is called... Or if the entire holiday is eliminated..  It just doesn't matter to me.. I have known for a long time that Columbus was a horrible man and a murderer..  BUT.. seriously,  I've never heard anyone in real life heaping acolades on him... Other than the kiddie rhyme.. in 1400 and 92 Columbus sailed the ocean blue...... I don't recall hearing that he was a bad person when I was in school... however, I never heard he was a great person either... Just the guy who supposedly discovered America... THEN that pehaps he really didn't..   He's quite a non-entity IMO. 

Keep safe April...


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## SifuPhil (Oct 13, 2014)

So basically the OP's idea of not caring is the vox populi - okay. Another waste of my time ...


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## AprilT (Oct 13, 2014)

QS, Thanks for the wishes to stay safe.  I'm back from OZ.  After being caught in that vortex all I have left is:dunno:


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## Barb (Oct 13, 2014)

Actually, Columbus Day is no longer about Columbus at all.  It's just about special sales on cars, mattresses, etc.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 14, 2014)

But we might not have had salsa if he didn't come over...


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## Michael. (Oct 14, 2014)

A few pictures popped up while I was checking something...

(Not many countries left with a pure native population)



.


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## Davey Jones (Oct 14, 2014)

All I know about Columbus is that its in Ohio and thats good enough for me.


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## Debby (Oct 14, 2014)

AprilT said:


> .........
> Places that have changed the name of the holiday: For starters Birkley, Seattle, Minneapolis.
> 
> http://www.wsav.com/story/26725590/seattle-city-council-votes-to-rename-columbus-day
> ...




Those are great links and nice to see the focus shifted away from 'That guy' and to a culture that 'discovered' the land before him.  Thanks for sharing the links April.


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## Underock1 (Oct 18, 2014)

Debating who discovered America is like debating who discovered sex. The vikings? The Spanish? The Chinese? Pacific islanders? Some prehistoric stone age hunters from Asia? Why not the Brontosaurus? They all did. Now if we're talking who was first,  we are probably going to have to go with some primordial slime of some kind.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 19, 2014)

I don't think this was an actual debate over who REALLY discovered America.. but more of a pointing out that America has a holiday for a despicable man... and how dare we..


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## Debby (Oct 19, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I don't think this was an actual debate over who REALLY discovered America.. but more of a pointing out that America has a holiday for a despicable man... and how dare we..




You know, you might be right.    Celebrating this guy is a total disrespect to all thousands of indigenous people that he butchered yet he is celebrated and Hitler is reviled.  So your question at the end of your statement is a good one.  The day should be renamed and there should be absolutely no 'warm-fuzzies' attached to any mention of his name (not even "oh yay, another day off from work!").  And if the history books actually taught the truth there wouldn't be because people would realize how awful he was.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 19, 2014)

Give it a friggin' rest Debby...  :beatdeadhorse:


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## Underock1 (Oct 19, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I don't think this was an actual debate over who REALLY discovered America.. but more of a pointing out that America has a holiday for a despicable man... and how dare we..



The title of the thread asks "did he discover America?"  My answer is yes. So did everyone else, including me.

I think the intent of the holiday originally was to celebrate the act of discovery itself, more than the man.
No doubt about it, the European colonization of America was a disaster for the native populations, with all of its well known horrors. Its also inescapable, that if it had not happened, the United States would not have happened either. There are mixed feelings about that, depending on your background. Lets assume it had not happened. Does anyone think that the native Americans would have been left in peace to hunt Buffalo? 
The Russians and Chinese are just a short hop away over the Bering strait. 
I have read quite a bit about Columbus and he was certainly not someone I would be inviting over for dinner. That given; historical acts should never be judged by the standards of the present. With some exceptions, people basically do what their particular circumstances and current culture dictate to them. Lets all be happy that we don't live in the fourteen hundreds and enjoy whatever the end result may have given us.


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