# The Credit Card Rewards Game



## Roadwarrior (May 26, 2018)

A couple years ago I got into a somewhat heated discussion on this here 'Financial' thread, my argument was about the rewards game that is played out in the personal credit markets.  I was against the concept of the managing of the rewards, credits, payments & gotchas that seniors could expect from playing that game.  My point was the bookkeeping headache some - not all seniors would have trying to keep their head above water in that ocean.  I apologize since I now have embraced the credit card game wholeheartedly.  

I converted my 3 cards to reward cards, setup a personal budget on my spreadsheet program & jumped in with both feet.  I like to think I'm capable with most of my faculties to play such a game.  Paying off the cards monthly, knowing how to manipulate the balances so they are low but not paid off at credit bureau reporting time.  Not paying interest, using the cards to pay things you have to meet monthly, utilities, groceries, dining out,,,etc.  How to maximize your charges so you get all the discounts available & also double dipping with the rewards.  

I've been doing this since June '17 I would redeem my rewards monthly, pay off the card but knowing I needed up to a 10% balance to maximize my scores.  I converted, actually opened a new card with an old issuer in Jan '18 that had a $150 sign up bonus after I had charged $500 before 3 months, easy to do.  Got the rewards, my total this year so far is $265 back.  I also have a loyalty card with a national grocery chain store, that discount for membership again maximizing my return.  

I still try to play the 'cash' card whenever able if they refuse out comes my best card.  I'm not paying for someone's 2.5% charge.  I have an Amazon Store card with a 5% cash back, since I order a lot of things from them I do watch & compare shop, driving miles out of my way to save a buck.  It even gave me a $5 discount on my $99 membership fee.  Knowing that this is a game that the providers hope I fail at adds a little excitement.  Kind of like the games (not to be confused with the table or slot games) played out in Las Vegas casinos, another game I play to the maximum.  Free rooms, comped meals, even gas to drive there.  Now if I can figure out how the eliminated the hotel fees I win.

I guess if you figure out the hourly wage it wouldn't make you rich, I have no other hobbies that I can spend thousands on to make hundreds.  It is fun as long as I'm on the winning side.  I have setup an on line bank account that pays a decent (Hah!) savings rate to manage all my card balances & monthly payments, hope my wife can figure it all out when I pass.


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## terry123 (May 26, 2018)

I use my Kroger MC for all my insurance pmts as I enjoy getting the check every now and then. I pay the card in full each month.  I had a $30.00 check I used today to buy groceries.  I am not into it as much as you are but I only have a credit card if it has cash rewards.  Another one I have I arranged for them to credit the account with the cash rewards.


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## NancyNGA (May 26, 2018)

Discover card is sneaky about maximizing their rewards.  You got extra reward percentages at certain stores, but only during certain periods, and you had to log in and apply for it every time.  Capital One started competing.  Same rate all the time, slightly higher than standard Discover. Now Discover almost begs you to apply for their extra rates.  It's funny.  I've almost quit using Discover now. Too sneaky.


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## Roadwarrior (May 26, 2018)

NancyNGA said:


> Discover card is sneaky about maximizing their rewards.  You got extra reward percentages at certain stores, but only during certain periods, and you had to log in and apply for it every time.  Capital One started competing.  Same rate all the time, slightly higher than standard Discover. Now Discover almost begs you to apply for their extra rates.  It's funny.  I've almost quit using Discover now. Too sneaky.


I don't have a lot of friends to text with so to keep my eyes glued to the little smart phone constantly I've downloaded & installed all the apps available for my rewards cards.  Check my bank balance, check all my credit card balances, check my emails, I don't even have to play 'Freecell' to keep my eyes constantly checking.  I've even allowed my wife to do all the driving so I can stay current with my finances.  

Well off to the dentist be back later, hope he has wifi my data plan is getting low.


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## C'est Moi (May 26, 2018)

NancyNGA said:


> Discover card is sneaky about maximizing their rewards.  You got extra reward percentages at certain stores, but only during certain periods, and you had to log in and apply for it every time.  Capital One started competing.  Same rate all the time, slightly higher than standard Discover. Now Discover almost begs you to apply for their extra rates.  It's funny.  I've almost quit using Discover now. Too sneaky.



I seldom use my Discover Card, but I like the perks of the free credit score and their other ID security like free "dark web" scans.    

For most purchases we use our Amazon Visa and get the rebates in Amazon "rewards."


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## Roadwarrior (May 26, 2018)

Back from dentist, emergency extraction involved grinding bone away from the root, 2 options simple (NOT!) $180, surgery (YEP!) $290 with 10% discount for full payment plus xray exam ($49) paid $310 but I paid with my 3% rebate card, saved a whopping $9 on that bill.  



C'est Moi said:


> I seldom use my Discover Card, but I like the perks of the free credit score and their other ID security like free "dark web" scans.
> 
> For most purchases we use our Amazon Visa and get the rebates in Amazon "rewards."


I observed that some retailers don't accept Discover most do but some don't.  Never applied for one.  Opt out many years ago to selling my score to the credit card issuers.  Option has never come up.  3 is enough to generate debt.


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## Colleen (May 26, 2018)

We have been using our Discover card for years and appreciate their keeping an eye on our account when there's fraudulent activity, which happened a little over a year ago. I'm vigilant about looking at our CC accounts (only have 2) and our banking so when Discover called us and said they suspected fraudulent activity and would we please contact them. I called them right away and, long story short, there was over $5000 worth of merchandise charged to our card. They were quick about checking these charges, canceling our card and issuing a new one. Within a couple weeks, all the charges were taken care of and it did not jeopardize our credit rating. I don't know if other CC company's are as conscientious as they were but we really appreciated it.


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## Butterfly (May 26, 2018)

I have several cards, and all of them are great about monitoring for fraudulent activity, and I enjoy the rewards I get.  I use the ones with rewards ones when I can, particularly the Amazon one.


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## OneEyedDiva (May 29, 2018)

Glad you've seen the light Roadwarrier. I've long been a proponent of and "preach" the tactic of making money with your credit cards. Within the last year and a half, I've gotten $400 in cash back reward card sign up bonuses (just 2 cards) in addition to my rewards for charging things. 

I charge every possible thing on my cards. Exception: our carrying charges (CC...co-op speak for HOAs) because the system is not set up for credit card payments and our utility bill because they charge a $5 fee for using a credit card. 

I have been doing this for years and I'm pretty sure I've gotten back $5,000 or more in cash back rewards. In 2017 I got back $677. Lets face it...you don't get that kind of money for writing checks and that money pays for at least one month of CCs and groceries. I pay off my balances in full each and every month no matter how high because paying interest eats into the rewards (plus Muslims are not supposed to pay nor charge interest anyway).  

I usually take my rewards during the months I don't get a pension check, which is 4 times a year (I get two checks each of the preceding months). I've tried to encourage anti-credit card friends to get reward cards and follow my method but people do what they want to do.


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## Colleen (May 29, 2018)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Glad you've seen the light Roadwarrier. I've long been a proponent of and "preach" the tactic of making money with your credit cards. Within the last year and a half, I've gotten $400 in cash back reward card sign up bonuses (just 2 cards) in addition to my rewards for charging things. I charge every possible thing on my cards. Exception: our carrying charges (CC...co-op speak for HOAs) because the system is not set up for credit card payments and our utility bill because they charge a $5 fee for using a credit card. I have been doing this for years and I'm pretty sure I've gotten back $5,000 or more in cash back rewards. In 2017 I got back $677. Lets face it...you don't get that kind of money for writing checks and that money pays for at least one month of CCs and groceries. I pay off my balances in full each and every month no matter how high because paying interest eats into the rewards (plus Muslims are not supposed to pay nor charge interest anyway).  I usually take my rewards during the months I don't get a pension check, which is 4 times a year (I get two checks each of the preceding months). I've tried to encourage anti-credit card friends to get reward cards and follow my method but people do what they want to do.



How does it work that you got $400 in cash back reward sign up bonuses?? I'm confused...did you get new cards? Explain please...I'd like to get more money back, too...haha


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## OneEyedDiva (May 29, 2018)

Colleen said:


> How does it work that you got $400 in cash back reward sign up bonuses?? I'm confused...did you get new cards? Explain please...I'd like to get more money back, too...haha


Hi Colleen: Yes, I got new cards. I cancelled one of my old ones that I wasn't using first (not that you have to do that). One was a TD Bank Visa which paid $250 after I spent $1,500 in three months (not that hard for me to do). The other was American Express Blue which offered $150 after spending $500 in three months, definitely easy for me. I noticed that the pre-approved offers I received for both paid different amounts than the offers shown online so do your research and check several reward cards to see what's offered. All of mine are cash back reward cards, not bonus miles type cards. 

As long as your FICO score isn't affected by signing up for new cards...go for it as many times as you can get away with. Someone on this forum had written months ago that her husband does that and it's what opened me up to taking a serious look at those pre-approved offers. I had my credit frozen a few years back because twice people tried using my card number for purchases (each time...one was very small and another was hundreds). It happened with two different banks' cards and each time the banks caught it. So I have to unfreeze my credit for X number of days every time I apply for a new card ($5 fee). I'm leery about unfreezing for too many days otherwise I'd probably take more of the offers. I never use the TD card so I'm ready to cancel that and try find another bonus offer.  Good luck!


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## Colleen (May 29, 2018)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Hi Colleen: Yes, I got new cards. I cancelled one of my old ones that I wasn't using first (not that you have to do that). One was a TD Bank Visa which paid $250 after I spent $1,500 in three months (not that hard for me to do). The other was American Express Blue which offered $150 after spending $500 in three months, definitely easy for me. I noticed that the pre-approved offers I received for both paid different amounts than the offers shown online so do your research and check several reward cards to see what's offered. All of mine are cash back reward cards, not bonus miles type cards.
> As long as your FICO score isn't affected by signing up for new cards...go for it as many times as you can get away with. Someone on this forum had written months ago that her husband does that and it's what opened me up to taking a serious look at those pre-approved offers. I had my credit frozen a few years back because twice people tried using my card number for purchases (each time...one was very small and another was hundreds). It happened with two different banks' cards and each time the banks caught it. So I have to unfreeze my credit for X number of days every time I apply for a new card ($5 fee). I'm leery about unfreezing for too many days otherwise I'd probably take more of the offers. I never use the TD card so I'm ready to cancel that and try find another bonus offer.  Good luck!



Hmmm.....I am going to do some research on cards! My husband is "old-school" and has had a certain card for many years, but he never uses it and I don't think it gives any kind of rewards. It's not easy teaching an "old dog" new tricks...haha. I'm sure if he saw cash back he'd be more than willing to change. 

I don't think I'm utilizing my reward card, which is Amazon Chase, to it's full advantage. I don't use my card for anything other than Amazon purchases. Hubby has never liked Chase so I limit my purchases with them. 

How do you keep your credit score from being affected by opening new cards???   Boy....I've got a lot to learn


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## HipGnosis (May 29, 2018)

RoadWarrior;   I applaud you that you were open minded and honest enough to do some research and change your mind.

I've been doing credit card rewards for years.  And with multiple cards.  I keep track of which card gives the best rewards on different things like; amazon, gas, restaurants, groceries, dept. stores...   And I have a card that gives 2% on everything, that I use for everything else.  
I put a label (via a label maker) on each card for what to use it for.  And yes, I need to change the label on the discover card every quarter.
One lesson I learned, is that buying groceries at WalMart doesn't get the grocery discount (it's not a grocery store).
I always pay ea bill in full.  Actually, I round up to the next even dollar amount (it makes in fast n easy to enter them into my check register spreadsheet).


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## Knight (May 29, 2018)

I wasn't aware that using a credit card with a cash back incentive was a game. Not paying interest on purchases since I pay the balance no matter what it is makes it possible to earn interest on the money to be used during the payment period. Buying something that is on sale & getting cash back has worked since we began. My wife wanted a smaller car so we charged the $19,000.00. The cash back on that of course will be used to other buy her "stuff" she needs. Not unusual to get several hundred dollars back every year.  Sure beats using a check or paying cash with no return on money spent.


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## Roadwarrior (May 29, 2018)

Knight said:


> I wasn't aware that using a credit card with a cash back incentive was a game.



I didn't coin the phrase 'Credit card rewards game' I'm not sure who named it first.  I watched a documentary about the game on PBS.  Very interesting, informative & full of ways the game is won by the issuers.  I became a non-believer when I was clawing my way out of debt years ago.  I had played the game wrong.  Lost a lot of money through interest payments & fees.  I researched the rules, gleaned as much information as I could then finally was ready to re-enter the arena.  

Been playing it for awhile now & haven't lost a dime.  Pay my balance down to less than 10% of the card limit but making sure I pay at least the balance due off.  Thereby building my FICO score back up.  Cost me points when I paid it completely off, something about debt to credit limit, an algorithm used by the credit rating big 3.  The thing I have to watch is the impulse buys that come my way.

Amazon plies me with suggestions, deals & flashy ads.  I get 3-4 daily reminders or offers daily from them.  I'm starting to get more mailers with credit card offers, I had opt-out of them but now that the 5 years are up I'm getting more ads.  The game is to stay out of debt, don't buy more than you need & avoid the traps of spending more money for 'stuff'.  I hadn't kept track last year but now I see an advantage to monitor the rewards as earned income.

When I was in my gambling days I played that game as well, play just enough on the low risk games to get the comps, I spent many free nights, had meals comped when I was more active.  I kept a watch to monitor my time, limit myself to length of stays in any one casino, never ordered a 'free' drink, avoided the tips to the scantily clad cocktail waitresses.  Cashed in my chips as I won, never pulled any winnings out of my pocket to give them back to the tables.  

Walked outside to get my bearings on what time of day it was, stood in the sunshine & then moved on.  It is definitely a game.  No windows or clocks, no real money played, only funny money.  They want you to forget that it's real.  Bright lights, bells, & whistles at every turn, locate the bathrooms out of the way to keep you at the machines longer.  Not many places to sit down, except at the machines but don't use them to rest, they're for players.


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## KingsX (May 29, 2018)

.

For many years,  I have I put every purchase I can on my rewards credit card, then pay it off every month.
The rewards are certainly worth it... and the reward percent given has gone up through the years.

 I have not  paid an annual cc fee or any cc interest in decades.  The CC company pays me to use their credit card.

.


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## Colleen (May 29, 2018)

We retired in 2001 and sold our CA home and almost everything we owned so we could buy a 5th-wheel and truck and we traveled around the country for 3 1/2 years. Even if you don't have a piece of land to call your own, you still have bills and you need a way to pay them. So, back then, the only way we had to pay our bills was through our cell phone with Verizon. It was a slow hook-up...and sometimes we had no hook-up if we were in a campground with lots of trees or our west were there's a whole lot of nothing in the deserts. We stopped in Las Vegas and bought a laptop so I could set up automatic bill pay with our bank account.  We had a physical address in TX where all the full-timers like us went to become Texans and then we could have a PMB box. It worked great. We just notified them where we were staying for a few days and they would send all our mail to us. Back then, we didn't use our CC much. Be bought everything with our debit card. We didn't know about rewards.

So, all this time I've continued to have our bills auto paid with our bank account. This whole discussion has me thinking....should I be having my bills auto paid with a cashback CC and making myself a few extra $$$$???? I use my debit card for all my groceries and gas (I don't shop WalMart...haven't set foot in a store in 5 years). I don't ever write a check unless I have to....like a couple weeks ago when we had our 2 bathroom s tiled or when we had our propane filled or when we had a delivery of stone for the back yard). Sometimes, I can't use a debit or CC, but a lot of other situations, I should be using my CC more often instead of my debit card...right??


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## KingsX (May 29, 2018)

.

@ Colleen

I've never had a debit card because it can potentially be more dangerous than a credit card.
If your debit card info is lost or stolen the money comes straight out of your checking account.
If there is fraud involved your money probably will be replaced, but that might take time.

I arranged for my monthly natural gas and cable bills to automatically go to my rewards cc.
But my electric company would charge me extra for that,  so I have that one auto-debited
directly from my checking account.

I recently put a new roof on my house.  While the insurance company paid most of it,
I put my deductible share on my rewards cc... and got back over $100 in rewards.

.


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## mathjak107 (May 30, 2018)

i charge everything i can and use the combo of the chase trinity .

i have the chase freedom for the 5% catagories each month , the chase  unlimited for 1.50% on everything , and then the chase sapphire reserve  card which is our crown jewel in cards . we get 3x on travel and restaurant's plus loads of other perks but :

we can transfer all the other points to the reserve card and they get multiplied by 50% for travel through chase's expedia portal . that means the  5% is 7-1/2% , the 1.50% is 2.25% and the 3% is 4.50%  .

since october we had 170,000 points .  the 500 fee for the reserve card is well worth it .

we get a 300 dollar travel credit  a year ,    so it really cost 200 dollars .    we got 60,000 points for taking the card , they paid for my tsa precheck , we get priority pass access at airport lounges and up to 27 bucks in food and drink for up to 3 of us . free travel insurance and a whole lot of other stuff .  that 500 bucks for the card got us  2000 bucks in perks since october .


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## mathjak107 (May 30, 2018)

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> @ Colleen
> 
> ...




after we had some attempted fraud on our checking account we tightened things up a bit . fidelity investments can actually create what is called a  Z account . it is an isolated account with no links to any other fidelity accounts or links . we keep enough in it to pay bills and add money via check when needed . if anyone gets in to the account they are very limited to what they see as a balance or linked to other accounts .  there is no check writing or atm card assigned .

even though we don't use a debit card , someone got the numbers and charged over 2k against the checking account . luckily i got a pop up message and saw the debit . i ran down to the bank and they killed the transactioon and the debit card . they could actually clean out a checking account that way .

so we keep our checking accounts isolated now . we also killed any over draft or auto refunding from other accounts if the balance hits zero .


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## Ken N Tx (May 30, 2018)

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> For many years,  I have I put every purchase I can on my rewards credit card, then pay it off every month.
> The rewards are certainly worth it... and the reward percent given has gone up through the years.
> ...


Ditto


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## Aputernut17 (May 30, 2018)

We never believed in a credit card only used a debit card until our bank of 37 yrs. for us, told us about the credit card cash rewards, and how it would really reward us in a big way and it sure has! we got $500 (free money) in the first month and rewards on almost everything we buy, plus because we have many acts. with our bank, when we redeem the bank tacks on an extra 75% and they automatically pay off the full amount for us each month as we directed. We redeem online when we have enough to redeem and it goes right into our savings or checking act. as we wish. We love getting Free money and the credit card is safer then the debit card we hardly ever use anymore. It's a Win, Win for us, so sorry we were not aware of this a few years sooner.


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## Colleen (May 30, 2018)

I have an Amazon Prime Visa card that I use for purchases on Amazon and I get 5% back. I usually just use that cashback on another purchase. Should I be using this card every where??

I went to NerdWallet and filled out the questionnaire to see what CC I should be using. The recommendation was Chase Freedom Unlimited. I have one in a drawer somewhere that I've never used and it expired in 2016.

My questions are: should I get a new one and when you apply for a new CC, doesn't it affect your credit score?


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## OneEyedDiva (May 31, 2018)

Colleen said:


> Hmmm.....I am going to do some research on cards! My husband is "old-school" and has had a certain card for many years, but he never uses it and I don't think it gives any kind of rewards. It's not easy teaching an "old dog" new tricks...haha. I'm sure if he saw cash back he'd be more than willing to change.
> 
> I don't think I'm utilizing my reward card, which is Amazon Chase, to it's full advantage. I don't use my card for anything other than Amazon purchases. Hubby has never liked Chase so I limit my purchases with them.
> 
> How do you keep your credit score from being affected by opening new cards???   Boy....I've got a lot to learn


Here's what factors affect your FICO score.


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## Olivia (May 31, 2018)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Here's what factors affect your FICO score.
> View attachment 52718



The amount you owe breaks down to what amount of credit card balances you have compared to how much credit card amount is available to you. So if you quit a card, that could reduce your credit score. Also, how well you have paid off loans such as car loans, personal loans, mortgages loans, etc. counts toward your score. So the more loans and the better you've paid them off on time, the better for your score. If you get rid of an old credit card to get a new one, that's a ding against how long your credit history is. There's more to this, of course.


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## Marie5656 (May 31, 2018)

*We have one active card.  For the past 5-6 months we have been lucky enough to pay off our balance every month.  The perks of the SS checks, and the FICO score is great.  We get reward points some months, and some we do not.  We use the card for Amazon almost exclusively.  So, what rewards we do get just get put towards our Amazon purchases.  *


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## KingsX (May 31, 2018)

Colleen said:


> I went to NerdWallet and filled out the questionnaire to see what CC I should be using. The recommendation was *Chase Freedom Unlimited.*
> I have one in a drawer somewhere that I've never used and it expired in 2016.
> 
> My questions are: should I get a new one and when you apply for a new CC, doesn't it affect your credit score?




Call the cc customer service number to find out if the old Chase cc can be renewed or if you have to reapply.

I have a good credit score,  but I hope not to use it because I am totally out of debt and plan to stay that way.

.


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## Colleen (May 31, 2018)

I have to correct my last post. I thought we had the Chase Freedom Unlimited card in the drawer but I was wrong...it's the Chase Freedom that's never been activated. Today we applied for the Unlimited card and plan on using it at the grocery store, getting gas, eating out (which isn't often), Sam's Club (once a month), Home Depot, etc. I have an Amazon Prime card that I've been using for purchases at Amazon.

We don't really have any CC debt. Whatever we buy within the month is paid off the next month.  


Olivia...I don't understand your statement:   "  So if you quit a card, that could reduce your credit score. " What does that mean? We've used our Discover card for years but we don't get any rewards because I always forget to "sign up" every quarter, so we've decided to not use it any more. Will that effect our credit score???


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## Olivia (May 31, 2018)

Colleen said:


> Olivia...I don't understand your statement:   " So if you quit a card, that could reduce your credit score. " What does that mean? We've used our Discover card for years but we don't get any rewards because I always forget to "sign up" every quarter, so we've decided to not use it any more. Will that effect our credit score???



Colleen, it probably doesn't pertain to you since you pay off your balances every month. For people who run a larger balance on a card and decide to drop another card because they don't want to, for instance, pay an annual fee, then their debt ratio to what they have available gets lowered, which could affect their credit score. Another thing is when dropping an older credit card for a new one, then they lose the credit history of the card they are dropping. It doesn't mean it will affect one's credit score, but just one factor among several.


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## Roadwarrior (Jun 1, 2018)

Given that my expenses per month are limited:

Space Rent - Don't take debit or credit card.
Dining - Get 3% off with CCard One.
Gas - Get a $.05 gal off if pay cash.
Groceries - <$300, get 2% off with CCard One.
ISP - Pay direct from bank, if credit or debit used they add $3.50,
Utilities (elec/streaming & wireless) - <$200, get 1.5% with CCard Two.
Amazon Prime - Get 5% off with Amazon Store Card.
CCard three is only used for emergencies.
Deposit enough to cover CCards One & Two in online savings get 1% interest better than CU.

Total rewards monthly - $18 CCard One, $3 CCard Two, nothing CCard Three. $21 x 12 = $252 annually.
I never pay interest always pay the total balance off monthly.* JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE!*
Charge <10% prior to statement close for FICO score.

Camping & snow birding spaces usually don't take credit or debit cards use my senior pass for those.
I don't fly, take the train or boat, no travel discounts needed.  I never stay in hotel.  
*
I'M JUST A MINOR LEAGUE PLAYER, NEVER WILL GET RICH FROM DEBT.*


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## Colleen (Jun 1, 2018)

Ironically...I received an email this morning from my online bank where we have a savings (I think it just went to 1.8%) and a 2-yr. CD offering a cashback CC. It offers 2% cashback at gas stations and grocery stores; 1% on all other purchases; a 10% deposit bonus when you deposit your cashback in your account; and $100 bonus on $500 purchases during a 3 month billing cycle.


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## Olivia (Jun 1, 2018)

Anything that makes me work, like thinking about cash back and how I could manipulate that, is just not worth it to me. I could use that time just balancing my check book. Yes, I am that kind of dinosaur. And I don't like flashing my credit card around the least I can. For the second time my dad got a call from his bank that there was a suspicious use of his credit card locally at a store. How could they do that when he still had his card? Did they make a duplicate? Oh, sure the thing will probably get straightened out in time, but I don't like that.


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## Wandrin (Jun 1, 2018)

We use our cash rewards cc to auto-pay almost all of the bills, including other credit cards.  Then, we auto-pay that cc bill from bank.


Some ccards have specific rewards for using them at their establishments.  The Costco cc is an example, as is REI’s card.  Other than those, we basically use the cash rewards card for everything.


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## Roadwarrior (Jun 1, 2018)

Wandrin said:


> We use our cash rewards cc to auto-pay almost all of the bills, including other credit cards.  Then, we auto-pay that cc bill from bank.
> 
> 
> Some ccards have specific rewards for using them at their establishments.  The Costco cc is an example, as is REI’s card.  Other than those, we basically use the cash rewards card for everything.


New one on me, I didn't know you could pay one card with another, are you talking about balance transfers?  or cash WDs?  Seems that if you can you could play a whole new game.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 3, 2018)

Olivia said:


> The amount you owe breaks down to what amount of credit card balances you have compared to how much credit card amount is available to you. So if you quit a card, that could reduce your credit score. Also, how well you have paid off loans such as car loans, personal loans, mortgages loans, etc. counts toward your score. So the more loans and the better you've paid them off on time, the better for your score. If you get rid of an old credit card to get a new one, that's a ding against how long your credit history is. There's more to this, of course.


Olivia, Of course. However, dropping a card has not affected my credit score. I never get rid of cards I've had the longest. After all, I've had them a long time for a reason. I barely use even 5% of the credit that's available to me and pay off all balances in full each month. My FICO score runs between 817 and 820. I imagine it's wise for someone who doesn't have a good credit score to tread carefully when it comes to adding and dropping cards.


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## AprilSun (Jun 16, 2018)

It is times like this that I think I am too distrustful for my own good sometimes. I have had a Cash Rewards credit card for years but had not cashed in for my rewards. I would charge monthly and pay it off each month and for years, I would get an email stating how many points I had. At the time, I thought, "What are they up to" so until I heard from someone that had used it, I stayed away from it. So, last Friday, I read this thread and saw all the good comments about it and began to understand it better. I logged into my credit card account, and I had so many points I couldn't believe it. I cashed them in and had them transfered to my checking account. I got my bank statement today, and I had $250 worth of points cashed in. I owe all of you a BIG THANK YOU for helping me understand this better. Thanks again!!!!!


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## mathjak107 (Jun 16, 2018)

make sure you understand how the points work on your card . as an example you can lose half your points with the fidelity 2% back card  using it for gift cards or statement credits vs  putting it in your money market and paying bills from there .

my chase card get a 50% boost in points when used for travel through the chase /expedia portal  . if i use it for anything else i don't get the 50% boost .


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## oldmontana (Jun 16, 2018)

AprilSun said:


> It is times like this that I think I am too distrustful for my own good sometimes. I have had a Cash Rewards credit card for years but had not cashed in for my rewards. I would charge monthly and pay it off each month and for years, I would get an email stating how many points I had. At the time, I thought, "What are they up to" so until I heard from someone that had used it, I stayed away from it. So, last Friday, I read this thread and saw all the good comments about it and began to understand it better. I logged into my credit card account, and I had so many points I couldn't believe it. I cashed them in and had them transfered to my checking account. I got my bank statement today, and I had $250 worth of points cashed in. I owe all of you a BIG THANK YOU for helping me understand this better. Thanks again!!!!!



====================================================================

I pay most of my bills with my credit card form TD Ameritrade. I get 1.75 % back on all charges. .  It sure adds up and I pay off the balance every month. 
*
I just wish I could get my wife to use her TD Ameritrade card.*


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 1, 2018)

Colleen said:


> We retired in 2001 and sold our CA home and almost everything we owned so we could buy a 5th-wheel and truck and we traveled around the country for 3 1/2 years. Even if you don't have a piece of land to call your own, you still have bills and you need a way to pay them. So, back then, the only way we had to pay our bills was through our cell phone with Verizon. It was a slow hook-up...and sometimes we had no hook-up if we were in a campground with lots of trees or our west were there's a whole lot of nothing in the deserts. We stopped in Las Vegas and bought a laptop so I could set up automatic bill pay with our bank account.  We had a physical address in TX where all the full-timers like us went to become Texans and then we could have a PMB box. It worked great. We just notified them where we were staying for a few days and they would send all our mail to us. Back then, we didn't use our CC much. Be bought everything with our debit card. We didn't know about rewards.
> 
> So, all this time I've continued to have our bills auto paid with our bank account. This whole discussion has me thinking....should I be having my bills auto paid with a cashback CC and making myself a few extra $$$$???? I use my debit card for all my groceries and gas (I don't shop WalMart...haven't set foot in a store in 5 years). I don't ever write a check unless I have to....like a couple weeks ago when we had our 2 bathroom s tiled or when we had our propane filled or when we had a delivery of stone for the back yard). Sometimes, I can't use a debit or CC, but a lot of other situations, I should be using my CC more often instead of my debit card...right??



Colleen, first of all, I think it's very cool that you guys hit the road like that traveling all over the country. I "met" some friends online who exactly what you did when I checked out on the wonderful website they created. It's for full time RV-ers to find out about the various factors to consider while full time RV-ing, complete with budget sheets and tips on finding work while on the road.  http://www.rv-dreams.com/ 

You could have racked up thousands of dollars by now using reward cards to pay so many bills! Over the last 10 years, I'm pretty sure I've gotten back close to $6,000. You have more protection using a credit card, especially for certain categories of products. You can also dispute charges as well as take advantage of certain card owner benefits such as travel insurance and virtual card numbers (which make it safer to shop online). GO FOR IT Colleen!!


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## Colleen (Jul 1, 2018)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Colleen, first of all, I think it's very cool that you guys hit the road like that traveling all over the country. I "met" some friends online who exactly what you did when I checked out on the wonderful website they created. It's for full time RV-ers to find out about the various factors to consider while full time RV-ing, complete with budget sheets and tips on finding work while on the road.  http://www.rv-dreams.com/
> 
> You could have racked up thousands of dollars by now using reward cards to pay so many bills! Over the last 10 years, I'm pretty sure I've gotten back close to $6,000. You have more protection using a credit card, especially for certain categories of products. You can also dispute charges as well as take advantage of certain card owner benefits such as travel insurance and virtual card numbers (which make it safer to shop online). GO FOR IT Colleen!!



I never knew about such things "back then". We were "old-school" and paid everything with our debit card. All our bills were paid automatically so we didn't have to worry that something wasn't getting paid or it might be late. I sure wish I would have known about it sooner, but at least I'm clued in now....thanks to this forum  I've quit using my debit card, except our car payment and house payment has to remain the same auto pay from our bank or we would be charged a fee every month. I've switched our utilities, Netflix, Amazon Prime, groceries, gas, and any other purchases to our Ally CC. I can go online to their web and see how much I've earned. Better late than never, I guess


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## Roadwarrior (Jul 8, 2018)

It's a losing proposition.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 8, 2018)

we just booked a totally free trip to new orleans from nyc with our points . never paid a penny in interest .


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## Roadwarrior (Jul 8, 2018)

And of course you didn't buy any useless 'stuff' to get those miles.


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## KingsX (Jul 8, 2018)

.

I did a lot of traveling in my youth... but now I prefer home and local travel.

All my rewards are redeemed as cc statement credits.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 9, 2018)

we are the reverse. we never had much time to travel with limited vacation time while working. we try to do a trip every other month now . last one was bermuda  and previously cuba


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## mathjak107 (Jul 9, 2018)

Roadwarrior said:


> And of course you didn't buy any useless 'stuff' to get those miles.



why would anyone just buy useless stuff ?  we charge as much of our daily living expenses as we  can where there are no extra charges for using a credit card  and taker advantage of point deals .

we got 60,000 points just for taking the chase sapphire reserve card . we get a 50% boost in points when booking our trips through the chase expedia portal .  we use the chase freedom card for the 5% quarterly purchases then transfer that to the reserve card for a boost to 7.50% when we travel .

so nope no useless stuff at all and neither do most people who accumulate points . that is a ridiculous assumption and i fail to see where useless stuff even enters the equation ..

when you see points like this raised it is usually by those who have no interest in getting free things from points so that is their rationalization for not doing it but it is not how it works .  anyone who can't be responsible  with   credit cards can't handle them points or no points .

it is no different than the silly reasons those who are risk adverse come up with for not investing over the long term .


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## Roadwarrior (Jul 11, 2018)

I budget $750 per month for possible living expenses items.  Based on that if I get 1.5% for everything then I could make $11.25 or $135.  My monthly fixed expenses are $240, I estimate that my monthly grocery bill/sundry items is $400, gas runs about $80 or less.  Total monthly expenses = $720 could possibly bring me cash back of $10.80 x 12 = $130 annually - IS IT WORTH THE BOOK KEEPING headache?  How much does one spend on clothes, entertainment & travel?

My RV park rent is paid semi annually ($1075 for 6 months), can use a card ($16.12 cash back), add to the $130 = $146.  Travel expenses is 4000 miles @ 15 MPG $930 x .02 = $18.60. ($146 + 18.60 = $165).  I stand to amass a fortune of $165!  My lifestyle is very minimal, I don't fly, stay in hotels, usually prepare my own meals, dining is not an event for me I eat to live - not live to eat.  Can't hear so I never go to shows or concerts.  My movies & reading are taken care of with my library card, all free.  

My health is good, my weight is normal, I get my exercise without a club membership.  Wife gets my pension, I live very comfortable on my SS, I have medicare/with supplement, my out of pocket drug charges are less than $300 a year.  I drive an old vehicle which is paid for, my tax refund covers all my annual expenses including maintenancee & insurance.  A vehicle is to get you from point A to point B, if you want to go in style, go but if you don't need the BS status symbol drive an older dependable auto. I have no mortgage, or auto loan.

Where can I make thousands without increasing my outlay?  What am I missing?  You need to come up with a better reason than insulting me about my risk aversion.  I've played the investment game quite well, thank you!  Just don't need the worry in my 'Golden Years'.


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## Colleen (Jul 11, 2018)

Roadwarrior said:


> I budget $750 per month for possible living expenses items.  Based on that if I get 1.5% for everything then I could make $11.25 or $135.  My monthly fixed expenses are $240, I estimate that my monthly grocery bill/sundry items is $400, gas runs about $80 or less.  Total monthly expenses = $720 could possibly bring me cash back of $10.80 x 12 = $130 annually - IS IT WORTH THE BOOK KEEPING headache?  How much does one spend on clothes, entertainment & travel?
> 
> My RV park rent is paid semi annually ($1075 for 6 months), can use a card ($16.12 cash back), add to the $130 = $146.  Travel expenses is 4000 miles @ 15 MPG $930 x .02 = $18.60. ($146 + 18.60 = $165).  I stand to amass a fortune of $165!  My lifestyle is very minimal, I don't fly, stay in hotels, usually prepare my own meals, dining is not an event for me I eat to live - not live to eat.  Can't hear so I never go to shows or concerts.  My movies & reading are taken care of with my library card, all free.
> 
> ...



I understand completely. The CC game isn't for everyone. I don't think we spend enough, either, to amass a fortune when it comes right down to it, but I'm giving it a shot for the rest of the year and we'll see if it amounts to anything. What I was attracted to was the cash I do accumulate from using my CC will be put right back into our savings account with Ally. That extra $$$ is additional to what our saving is making right now at 1.65%. Anything extra, in my book, is a good thing. I guess I look at it that that extra $200 you could be making a year could go for rent space, groceries, gas...whatever. That's just me, though


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## mathjak107 (Jul 11, 2018)

Roadwarrior said:


> And of course you didn't buy any useless 'stuff' to get those miles.



we spend over 10k a month so it is well worth it to us . when you live on so little  , like 750 a month there is little you can really do . for the most part  these posts are for those it applies to .

i could never understand why people choose to post in threads that do not apply to them just to say it does not apply to them. but your post about how much useless stuff did i have to buy is still nonsense


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## Roadwarrior (Jul 11, 2018)

*I started this thread!*  I admitted then I was getting into the game, now AW I'm not seeing all the advantages & money making opportunities that everyone else claims they receive, so I became dis-enchanted with the game.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 11, 2018)

all well and good , but making silly assumptions that those who do it are buying useless stuff is just nonsense . our rewards from just october have now surpassed 1800 in  travel  dollars ,plus the card paid the fee for my tsa precheck , provided travel insurance so we did not have to buy it and got us privy deals to events here .


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## KingsX (Jul 11, 2018)

Colleen said:


> I understand completely. The CC game isn't for everyone. I don't think we spend enough, either, to amass a fortune when it comes right down to it, but I'm giving it a shot for the rest of the year and we'll see if it amounts to anything. What I was attracted to was the cash I do accumulate from using my CC will be put right back into our savings account with Ally. That extra $$$ is additional to what our saving is making right now at 1.65%. Anything extra, in my book, is a good thing. I guess I look at it that that extra $200 you could be making a year could go for rent space, groceries, gas...whatever. That's just me, though




You are wise and disciplined.  You will be pleased with the result..

When one puts at least part of *what he normally would spend each month* [utilities, cable TV, internet, phone,  groceries, gas, car maintenance,  restaurants, department stores,  repairmen, etc] on a cash rewards cc *and pay off the cc every month*, it's free money, no effort.

Btw... last time I had professional plumbing services,  he told me they can not take cash.  Which was fine with me, because with my rewards cc, I get 1 1/2 percent cash back.


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## KingsX (Jul 11, 2018)

Roadwarrior said:


> I estimate that my monthly grocery bill/sundry items is $400, gas runs about $80 or less.  Total monthly expenses = $720 could possibly bring me cash back of $10.80 x 12 = $130 annually - IS IT WORTH THE BOOK KEEPING headache?




No bookkeeping effort required.  The cc company does the bookkeeping and your reward points are on your monthly cc statement.

Since I have no debt,  my monthly expenses are low too.  But I put every payment possible on my rewards cc.  I don't know about you,  but getting a free $130 a year is certainly worth it for me.

My cash rewards cc gives 1 1/2 cash back.  $720 would be almost $11.   I would call the cc toll free number and spend a minute on the automated line and either get a check for $11 or have that $11 credited to my cc account [I elect to do this every month] or  you can elect to have the points accumulate and redeem them whenever you wish...  easy peasy.


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## Roadwarrior (Jul 11, 2018)

I keep forgeting, you can be anybody you want to be.


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## KingsX (Jul 11, 2018)

Roadwarrior said:


> I keep forgeting, you can be anybody you want to be.




I'm not sure exactly what that means relative to this topic... or if your comment was directed at me.

But I will say this,  one of the main reasons I was able to retire at age 55 is because I am frugal by nature,  always lived below my means and saved money.  I am a firm believer in the wise old truism... "watch your pennies and your dollars will fall in line."  I wouldn't purposefully leave such easy no-strings-attached money [like cc cash rewards] on the table... and can't imagine anyone like me doing it either.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 12, 2018)

a penny saved may be a penny earned but  without learning to compound those pennies they will always stay pennies ., actually less after inflation and taxes . so good investing along with good savings technique are what  does the trick for most of us.

what bookkeeping is needed for rewards points ?   that is just more nonsense .


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## ronaldj (Jul 12, 2018)

We live on small pension and SS, we live ok…long before I retiredwe used our credit card to pay for things we need, (food, gas, ect)  and monthly bills, (electric,phone, internet, etc.) we have always paid the card off at the end of themonth. I looked back and we have been doing this for over 20 years, it is acash back card. On average 300 dollars a year cash back, that is over 6 grand. Wehave always said the first time we pay interest we stop. Never have and neverplan too.


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## KingsX (Jul 13, 2018)

ronaldj said:


> We live on small pension and SS, we live ok…long before I retired we used our credit card to pay for things we need, (food, gas, ect)  and monthly bills, (electric, phone, internet, etc.) we have always paid the card off at the end of the month. I looked back and we have been doing this for over 20 years, it is a cash back card. On average 300 dollars a year cash back, that is over 6 grand. We have always said the first time we pay interest we stop. Never have and never plan too.




This is the smart way to handle a cash rewards cc.

.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 13, 2018)

what is nice is chase has different cards that highlight different purchases every quarter .  the freedom card gives you 5% back on the monthly categories. last quarter it was groceries . we average about 150-180 a week so we got 5% back which then transfer to the chase sapphire reserve card  for a 50% boost when used for travel through the chase expedia portal.

we do a lot of traveling and love it so we end up with 7.50% back on groceries .  the sapphire gives us 3% back when eating out and for everything travel related so that ends up being multiplied by 50% too .

since we got the 3 chase cards and  use the best one for what we buy it has been raining money via the points . we are using them for a free trip to NEW Orleans  and includes airfare for 2 from ny  and a very nice hotel for a week  and we still have points left


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## Knight (Jul 13, 2018)

Credit Card Game?  


Using cash = nothing back
Using a cash back cc = something.


Not all that hard to figure out which is better. Of course paying the card in full each month is the way to use a credit card.


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## fmdog44 (Jul 13, 2018)

Years ago I cancelled one of my XXXX cards for a better XXXX card. However, the old account kept showing up on my monthly bill despite me calling them and telling them that acct. # is cancelled. They say it does not show up on their screen while it did show on mine. Frustrated I gave up trying to correct this. Recently I was looking at my insurance for home and truck and noticed the old acct.# on the bill. It showed the expiration date on the card was last month. It shocked me because that acct. was cancelled years ago. Now I am confused trying to figure how this happened. I changed account numbers adding my other card replacing the old card on the bill. So what does this mean? It means I have been paying for my umbrella policy with a card that does not exist according to my bank for however long the card was issued for prior to expiration. I am not going to raise this with my bank and just be thankful for some king of technical glitch. Thank you computer.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 13, 2018)

jp morgan chase announced record earnings . but they said their power credit card users sucked out 330 million dollars in rewards dollars . they said consumers were getting way smarter in their juggling of their cards to maximize points and the reward payouts are running at a pace beyond what they anticipated 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/13/credit-card-super-users-take-a-330-million-bite-out-of-jp-morga.html


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## KingsX (Jul 13, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> jp morgan chase announced record earnings . but they said their power credit card users sucked out 330 million dollars in rewards dollars . they said consumers were getting way smarter in their juggling of their cards to maximize points and the reward payouts are running at a pace beyond what they anticipated
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/13/credit-card-super-users-take-a-330-million-bite-out-of-jp-morga.html




CC companies get a transaction fee from the vendor every time the cc is used.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 13, 2018)

of course they do , but the perks and point levels on these higher end cards left them with a 330 million dollar subtraction  because of the  high level of points being redeemed  from the cards . last year chase said they lost 350 million on the chase sapphire reserve because it offers so much . they hoped to make it up in higher usage on the other chase cards which then get shifted to the sapphire reserve or sapphire preferred  .

it does work because we used to use my fidelity 2% back card . now we use the 3 chase cards and manipulate the points as well as charge everything we would typically pay cash for so the chase cards are seeing far more action .

initially they gave 100k points for taking it but reduced it down to 50,000. we got 60,000 when we took the card because we got another 10,000 points for being chase private client


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## KingsX (Jul 13, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> of course they do , but the perks and point levels on these higher end cards left them with a 330 million dollar subtraction  because of the  high level of points being redeemed  from the cards . last year chase said they lost 350 million on the chase sapphire reserve because it offers so much . they hoped to make it up in higher usage on the other chase cards which then get shifted to the sapphire reserve or sapphire preferred  .
> 
> it does work because we used to use my fidelity 2% back card . now we use the 3 chase cards and manipulate the points as well as charge everything we would typically pay cash for so the chase cards are seeing far more action .
> 
> initially they gave 100k points for taking it but reduced it down to 50,000. we got 60,000 when we took the card because we got another 10,000 points for being chase private client




So YOU'RE the sneaky one causing Chase to lose millions...
and my use of another Chase rewards CC  bails them out   

.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 13, 2018)

yeah , jamie said  chase over estimated the amount of interest those who take their premium cards actually pay . they also did not expect to have the demand for the premium cards they did so the 100,000 points really cost them causing them to reduce it to 50 or 60,000.

but jamie was right that because of the boost you get on all the other cards when you transfer them to the premium cards they would get a lot more revenue in on the other cards .


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## KingsX (Jul 13, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> yeah , jamie said  chase over estimated the amount of interest those who take their premium cards actually pay . they also did not expect to have the demand for the premium cards they did so the 100,000 points really cost them causing them to reduce it to 50 or 60,000.
> 
> but jamie was right that because of the boost you get on all the other cards when you transfer them to the premium cards they would get a lot more revenue in on the other cards .




You've learned how to take advantage of their system.

But here I agree with Roadwarrior, too much "bookkeeping."  
I'll just stay with my 1.5% rewards for every purchase CC
which requires no complicated maneuvers.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 13, 2018)

KingsX said:


> You've learned how to take advantage of their system.
> 
> But here I agree with Roadwarrior, too much "bookkeeping."
> I'll just stay with my 1.5% rewards for every purchase CC
> which requires no complicated maneuvers.


Not one drop of book keeping at all. There really is nothing you need to do except every so often click on combine points. Certainly choosing which card to use is worth 7.50% back at times


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## Roadwarrior (Jul 13, 2018)

Are you a shill for the CC companies?  No book keeping involved, hah!  Every financial guru I've researched (Suzy Orme, Clark Howard, Dave Ramsay,,,etc along with many financial websites including creditcards.com all agree that playing the cash back rewards game entails record keeping at it's best & first claim you should have a workable budget, second, you must keep track of the cards, points, timing, closed dates, percentage of debt to credit limit among many other factors.  Third don't get in over your head, understand all the rules the CC companies use to garner fees, late or interest.   

I admit it is doable but to say you have no book keeping at all is more than nonsense, it's total BS. If you actually spend 10K per month on chargeable items then either you are constantly watching your pennies, rewards & overages.  I want to know how you can take the time to post on this forum, whose members are made up of seniors mostly on fixed incomes, & are more worried about our health, children & making our money last through the EOL. You must be posting at 30,000 feet because you would have to be in air 24/7 to get free Bermuda flights every year.  Just spending 10K per month must be a record keeping nightmare.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 14, 2018)

nonsense , there is so much  that you posted that is just ridiculous .  there is nothing to do as far as book keeping . everything  we can ,is set up automatically to  have bills paid as well  as payments  on the cards , we watch nothing . it is easier than remembering to write checks each month , you spend more time remembering what to pay and when then we do .

there is really nothing to watch or do .  that is all just malarkey .  

the only thing i do is every few months combine points which takes 2 seconds . if any charges are made i get an e-mail so i can fraud watch .

it is always those that don't do things that dream up visions in their head   that justify not doing it by others . 

there is zero reason we ever watch or track debt ratio  since cards are paid in full regardless ..


there is no payments on any card we have to even make manually .


due dates are irrelevant as the cards are paid automatically 

there is no tracking of points by me .

there is less for me to do than you writing checks for a specific  bill manually


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## Knight (Jul 14, 2018)

Living in the past works for some people. Embracing technology and using it to it's full potential to minimize record keeping and cost while having instant access to what you might need to know can be difficult for some to adjust to. 


From personal experience before online banking a few payments by check were lost in the mail. No way to know until the statement showed up and the company that was owed wanted interest on the past due bills. Unlike online banking there was no way to prove I sent the payments on time Account encryption and the abilty to know instantly if something is wrong, beats paper every time for us.


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## KingsX (Jul 14, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> there is less for me to do than you writing checks for a specific  bill manually




That reminds me of my long-time friend who is broke and has recently gone through bankruptcy.
The other day she mentioned she had spent two days paying bills??   What kind of person spends
TWO DAYS paying bills?!  All her old debt has just been wiped out in bankruptcy, still it took her
two days to write checks for her current living expenses?!   How many different living expensives 
does the average single elderly person have??  To me it was a hint that she continues to live way
beyond her means which is what got her in trouble in the first place.

I hardly ever write a check. All my living expenses except one utility bill goes on my rewards cc 
which is paid off every month.  That one utility bill exception is auto-paid from my bank account.
I pay my one cc bill with one brief phone call.


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## Colleen (Jul 14, 2018)

We don't need to do any bookkeeping other than watch what we spend. If we need to make a larger purchase for something, which we did last month for a replacement part for my hubby's hearing aid, I wait a couple days until it's posted to the CC and then I go in and pay it. Everything else, like groceries, gas, and Home Depot is also paid ASAP. I don't even wait until the due date. We have our Netflix and Dish set up automatically every month. We have a car payment but it would cost an extra $5.95 a month for them to take that out of a CC, so it is taken out of our bank account. 

It's really quite simple. The only thing we don't use the CC for is Amazon because I use their card and get 5% back which I use for other purchases. I don't need to go in on either CC to activate the cashbacks for that quarter. I used to use a Discover but hated that about that card. I always forgot to do it or we wouldn't use what that quarter was offering.

I keep a notebook (I have for years) of regular expenses for each month and when I have an additional purchase, like groceries or the dollar store, drug store, etc., I write that in my book and keep the receipt until I see it posted and then I pay it. Works for me...but then again, I'm a "numbers" person and I love doing it. 

The extra cash is worth 5 minutes of my time


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## ronaldj (Jul 14, 2018)

. 


I keep a notebook (I have for years) of regular expenses for each month and when I have an additional purchase, like groceries or the dollar store, drug store, etc., I write that in my book and keep the receipt until I see it posted and then I pay it. Works for me...but then again, I'm a "numbers" person and I love doing it.  ME TOO


I do the same thing, I looked at my checking account and write 3  or 4 checks  a month, one to our church and odd things, a truck load of dirt, grandchildren school things.....but it does take me four or five days to pay bills each month. one by phone on the 15th, write a check to the church on the 1st, if I have lumber yard charges on the 3rd or 4th and any day my grandchildren have a fund raiser.  by the by this morning I received 100 dollars in what I call funny money from discover, it was for Lowes,  (cash back) 90 for 100, yesterday I spent 112, and change at lowes, two 50 dollar cash back rewards, 11 dollar military discount and 1.20 cash. not saying I am getting rich but I have fun doing such.


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## KingsX (Jul 14, 2018)

Colleen said:


> We don't need to do any bookkeeping other than watch what we spend. If we need to make a larger purchase for something, which we did last month for a replacement part for my hubby's hearing aid, I wait a couple days until it's posted to the CC and then I go in and pay it. Everything else, like groceries, gas, and Home Depot is also paid ASAP. I don't even wait until the due date. We have our Netflix and Dish set up automatically every month. We have a car payment but it would cost an extra $5.95 a month for them to take that out of a CC, so it is taken out of our bank account.
> 
> It's really quite simple. The only thing we don't use the CC for is Amazon because I use their card and get 5% back which I use for other purchases. I don't need to go in on either CC to activate the cashbacks for that quarter. I used to use a Discover but hated that about that card. I always forgot to do it or we wouldn't use what that quarter was offering.
> 
> ...




Excellent!

Every year I buy a $1 calendar planner from the Dollar store where I write down *everything* I spend daily and I also make brief notes of any special cost situation that might happen, like home or auto repair, etc.  I also keep all receipts until they are no longer required for reference.    I also have a larger notebook where I keep all my monthly savings, investment, nest egg information and special notes like insurance and property tax costs and IRA withdraws.  Keeping such records are a handy reference to have [for you and your heirs]... and the psychology of routinely writing down spending, saving and nest egg information helps control spending and helps continue to motivate saving.


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## Colleen (Jul 14, 2018)

ronaldj said:


> .
> 
> 
> I keep a notebook (I have for years) of regular expenses for each month and when I have an additional purchase, like groceries or the dollar store, drug store, etc., I write that in my book and keep the receipt until I see it posted and then I pay it. Works for me...but then again, I'm a "numbers" person and I love doing it.  ME TOO
> ...



I very seldom write a check for anything, but when we had 6 yds. of rock delivered this spring (getting ready for Monsoon season...haha...and it helps keep down the dust) the company would only accept cash or check...no CC. We pay our doctor's co-pay ($10) with a check (thank God that's once a year to see him!) but that's about it for checks.

BTW...are you MI??? I grew up in Bay City


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## mathjak107 (Jul 14, 2018)

if you link everything to fidelity investment full view you can get spending info with no bookkeeping at all .  since every penny we spend for any reason from any where is linked  i can click any time frame and see either total spending or a detail .  . i don't need to know where money went . i just need to know total spending .unless i had reason , i don't really care where it was spent . if it was something we wanted then i couldn't care less .

knowing where each doillar went may be helpful if you don't have enough income and need to make cuts , other wise i only need a total


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## KingsX (Jul 14, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> if you link everything to fidelity investment full view you can get spending info with no bookkeeping at all .  since every penny we spend for any reason from any where is linked  i can click any time frame and see either total spending or a detail .  . i don't need to know where money went . i just need to know total spending .unless i had reason , i don't really care where it was spent . if it was something we wanted then i couldn't care less .
> 
> knowing where each doillar went may be helpful if you don't have enough income and need to make cuts , other wise i only need a total




As I mentioned in my last post,  "the psychology of routinely writing down spending, saving and nest egg information helps control spending and helps continue to motivate saving."

And frankly,  I don't trust the internet [or "cloud"] to keep my personal records.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 14, 2018)

your records are out there regardless . in fact we just got notice from the  local pct here do not mail checks and put them in corner mail boxes until further notice .

mail is being stolen all over out of corner mail boxes , checks bleached and re-made out . nothing is safe today but on line stuff is far easier to resolve when there are issues .
personally i looked at our individual categories and  quite frankly they are what they are . there is very little we can say we wouldn't do again . 

i never needed to break out a  budget  my entire life and i i have no reason to at this stage . we want to enjoy as much as we can while we can . 

i just need to know my limitis each year .


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## Colleen (Jul 14, 2018)

KingsX said:


> As I mentioned in my last post,  "the psychology of routinely writing down spending, saving and nest egg information helps control spending and helps continue to motivate saving."
> 
> And frankly,  I don't trust the internet [or "cloud"] to keep my personal records.



I'm still old-school when it comes to some things. I have always written down everything in my notebook and will continue to do so as it works for me. I'm retired, so, hey, I've got the time to do it...which doesn't really take very long  I also keep a separate password book, which I call my "Bible". My husband is clueless about the internet and since I have everything set up for payments online, his kids need to know what the passwords are to get into these accounts. I've shown them and they're very tech savvy so they'll be able to take care of things if something should happen to me first.


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## ronaldj (Jul 14, 2018)

yes I am from the thumb about 36 miles from BC.


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## Colleen (Jul 14, 2018)

ronaldj said:


> yes I am from the thumb about 36 miles from BC.



Small world, isn't it


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## KingsX (Jul 14, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> your records are out there regardless .
> 
> .




Not all together in one place.  That one place is not on the internet.

.


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## KingsX (Jul 14, 2018)

Colleen said:


> I'm still old-school when it comes to some things. I have always written down everything in my notebook and will continue to do so as it works for me. I'm retired, so, hey, I've got the time to do it...which doesn't really take very long  I also keep a separate password book, which I call my "Bible". My husband is clueless about the internet and since I have everything set up for payments online, his kids need to know what the passwords are to get into these accounts. I've shown them and they're very tech savvy so they'll be able to take care of things if something should happen to me first.





I enjoy keeping my old-school financial records book up to date.  I also make it fun by using motivational stickers that teachers use for their students.  It suits my style and my needs.  

.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 14, 2018)

Been decades and never a problem . I have had more issues with individual accounts and credit cards, never because something was linked


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## KingsX (Jul 14, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> Been decades and never a problem . I have had more issues with individual accounts and credit cards, never because something was linked




I have worked with a computer since the 1970s and bought my first desktop computer for home use in 2000. Loved my computer and loved the internet.  But now that I am older,  my love-affair with the computer is over.  The main reason I am still on line is because it's where I get most of my news and information [while knowing that news/info will be slanted.]  This forum is one of the few places I go to interact.  My old desktop still works. But I doubt I will buy another when it dies.  I might rely only on much less capable mobile phone internet access.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 15, 2018)

the bottom line is there is no need for book keeping because you accumulate reward points . any book keeping anyone chooses to do is their own doing and choice . but today you can print and file away any statement you like without duplicating it writing things by hand .


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## Don M. (Jul 15, 2018)

With all the thieves and hackers in today's world, it is almost Mandatory for a person to closely watch their accounts for any "suspicious" transactions.  I check our accounts...bank, investments, IRA, credit cards, etc., online, frequently, and it only takes a few minutes.  Only one time, a couple of years ago, did I spot an incorrect billing...and a quick phone call to the store, and a call to the CC company quickly resolved that issue.  Waiting for a "paper" statement can often result in a "delay" of several days/weeks before the error is spotted.  
Just be sure, when you log in to an account, that the "HTTPS" appears in the link, and that you use a fairly complex password, and even change it periodically.  Nothing is 100% secure anymore, but following some good common sense procedures is the best insurance against becoming a "victim".


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## mathjak107 (Jul 15, 2018)

i don't even have to check . i get an e-mail alert with every charge or account transaction automatically . 2 months ago i was sitting at the computer and got a debit card transaction for 2000 in bitcoins pop up . ran down to the bank within minutes  and the stopped the transaction . it is still a mystery how those numbers were obtained as i don't use it .


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## Colleen (Jul 15, 2018)

We don't have reward points with our CC's. We've done all the traveling we want to do in our lifetime (it's such a hassle these days!!) and eating out or shopping is not on our agenda either. We have cash back rewards. I'd rather put that in my account then spend time in an airport or eating at a restaurant (I can't hear conversations because of all the background noise) and spending $$$ on food that's over priced or full of "stuff" (like preservatives!) I can't or don't want to put in my body. 

I've been using our Ally Visa CC for the last 2 months to purchase just about everything (except Amazon) and I checked yesterday and we have accumulated $112 in cash back so far. We've had a couple unexpected expenses that added to that, but I'd say, in 2 months time that's not bad. I'm happy with it.:love_heart:


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## KingsX (Jul 15, 2018)

KingsX said:


> I have worked with a computer since the 1970s and bought my first desktop computer for home use in 2000. Loved my computer and loved the internet.  But now that I am older,  my love-affair with the computer is over.  The main reason I am still on line is because it's where I get most of my news and information [while knowing that news/info will be slanted.]  This forum is one of the few places I go to interact.  My old desktop still works. But I doubt I will buy another when it dies.  I might rely only on much less capable mobile phone internet access.




I just posted this yesterday.   Today when I clicked into my Yahoo mail box,  the box was there but nothing else... nothing...
no emails, no folders of any kind and after testing it,  no emails coming in or out.  I've contacted Yahoo [it's a paid account.]
The irony is... this my first and major email account that I first set up when I came on the internet in 2000... so whatever
glitch totally wiped it out... just wiped out a huge summary of my internet life.  I take that as a huge personal sign.. HUGE !


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 15, 2018)

Roadwarrior said:


> I budget $750 per month for possible living expenses items.  Based on that if I get 1.5% for everything then I could make $11.25 or $135.  My monthly fixed expenses are $240, I estimate that my monthly grocery bill/sundry items is $400, gas runs about $80 or less.  Total monthly expenses = $720 could possibly bring me cash back of $10.80 x 12 = $130 annually - IS IT WORTH THE BOOK KEEPING headache?  How much does one spend on clothes, entertainment & travel?
> 
> My RV park rent is paid semi annually ($1075 for 6 months), can use a card ($16.12 cash back), add to the $130 = $146.  Travel expenses is 4000 miles @ 15 MPG $930 x .02 = $18.60. ($146 + 18.60 = $165).  I stand to amass a fortune of $165!  My lifestyle is very minimal, I don't fly, stay in hotels, usually prepare my own meals, dining is not an event for me I eat to live - not live to eat.  Can't hear so I never go to shows or concerts.  My movies & reading are taken care of with my library card, all free.
> 
> ...


And you don't think it's an insult to the financial intelligence of those of us who use our rewards that you insinuated we buy "useless stuff" just to get those rewards?  Buying unnecessary items as well as paying interest on any charges negates the benefit of getting cash back rewards. I believe in my initial response to the thread I indicated that I pay for everything with rewards cards that i would normally have to pay for with a check (or debit card), except our carrying charges (homeowner expenses) and that's because they don't have a system for it yet. Also not utilities because they charge a $5 fee. So I pay for my streaming services (formerly had cable), cell phone service, food, personal care items, restaurants, vacation and travel expenses, even charitable giving with my rewards cards. Those are expenses I'd have to pay whether I had a rewards card or not. Of course anyone who says "well I'm only going to use the card for this" and omit everything else it could be used for is not going to see the full benefits!  And as my cousin used to say  "a-yun is better than nay-un" $25 a year is better than $0 I think.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 16, 2018)

this is the normal reaction you get from some who try to justify to themselves the fact that others are getting something they are not. you see it all the time in investing topics as well . their rational for not doing something is usually flawed or because it does not apply to them others are wasting their time  doing it .  just nonsense . this required book keeping nonsense is about as silly as it gets,. it is called believing your own bull-sh%t

.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 17, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> this is the normal reaction you get from some who try to justify to themselves the fact that others are getting something they are not. you see it all the time in investing topics as well . their rational for not doing something is usually flawed or because it does not apply to them others are wasting their time  doing it .  just nonsense . this required book keeping nonsense is about as silly as it gets,. it is called believing your own bull-sh%t
> 
> .


Yeah...I was wondering about that bookkeeping comment! The bank does keep track of all of that by a running tally of points earned and used for the year that can be accessed once the account holder logins to the account. My bank even sends a reminder...hey you have X amount of points available to use.


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## Roadwarrior (Aug 2, 2018)

I've been chastised, criticized & insulted for my thoughts on the credit card game, or 'Chasing Rewards' as some call it.  I personally get a pension along with my SS.  Also have a 401K that pretty well sustains it's value after taking out my required withdrawal yearly for tax purposes.  My spouse, then my offspring will enjoy the fruits of my labor.  That being said I DID start playing the game in Mar '17.  Made a few bucks but obviously played it all wrong.  I wasn't into chasing the rewards simply because I neither fly or travel much other than my annual 'snow-birding' to AZ in the winter months (Nov-Mar) then back home to the PacNW so that I don't miss the ungodly wet months.  Being diabetic limits my eating habits, so I eat to live, not live to eat.  I limit myself to meals at restaurants that are less than $20 including coffee.  I don't drink, smoke, enjoy crowds, never did make friends very well so my entertainment dollar is spent on me, movie buff who would rather watch something on my laptop because of my hearing.

This winter while sitting in the sun I came up with a much better plan that piling up the 'cash back'.  I changed my outlook on tips to service personnel.  I had always been a 20% but found that meals & services started raising prices, but my income stayed much the same, so now I'm at 15% (still paying more than I was in 2009).  I also live in a state that has no sales tax, a big perk especially for someone who needs everyday goods more than paying fees at my country club.  I still get a few dollars in 'cash back' but don't chase them.  I pay cash for things like my gas ($.10 off per gal).  Works out to close to a 3.5% immediate return.  I bank the rewards in my savings as I go along,  Non-existent sales tax (6.5% previous state), gas refunds, match my redeemed cash back & the 5% I saved on service tips.  I avoid fees at all times.  Amazes me that everyone expects to get a little extra on services that used to be free, & the service has become non-existent.  

I had accumulated 6 cards but found that keeping track of the credit limits, FICO scores & monthly payments were a minor headache that should be avoided.  I canceled 4 of my cards, yea I know that it will & did ding my score, so beit.  I have two cards that have a high limit so it's easier to keep the balances below that magical 6% & reap a few bucks each month for my time.  Reading that the average consumer will spend $2,500+ yearly chasing rewards was at first a little disconcerting but found even with my limit outlay each month it was easy to meet that average.  Just have to keep score (records) as I go along, gives me something to do in my rather humdrum boring existence according to some posters.

I hang my head in shame for attacking your sacred cow (rewards chasing), I leave quietly knowing full well that there are others more astute or better liars than I.  And, being Asperger I want to get the last word.


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## mathjak107 (Aug 2, 2018)

we  should do those things and still get the rewards points where we can . those things you listed still have nothing to do with paying bills and getting points . you gotta love how people justify their actions .


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## Colleen (Aug 2, 2018)

Roadwarrior said:


> I've been chastised, criticized & insulted for my thoughts on the credit card game, or 'Chasing Rewards' as some call it.  I personally get a pension along with my SS.  Also have a 401K that pretty well sustains it's value after taking out my required withdrawal yearly for tax purposes.  My spouse, then my offspring will enjoy the fruits of my labor.  That being said I DID start playing the game in Mar '17.  Made a few bucks but obviously played it all wrong.  I wasn't into chasing the rewards simply because I neither fly or travel much other than my annual 'snow-birding' to AZ in the winter months (Nov-Mar) then back home to the PacNW so that I don't miss the ungodly wet months.  Being diabetic limits my eating habits, so I eat to live, not live to eat.  I limit myself to meals at restaurants that are less than $20 including coffee.  I don't drink, smoke, enjoy crowds, never did make friends very well so my entertainment dollar is spent on me, movie buff who would rather watch something on my laptop because of my hearing.
> 
> This winter while sitting in the sun I came up with a much better plan that piling up the 'cash back'.  I changed my outlook on tips to service personnel.  I had always been a 20% but found that meals & services started raising prices, but my income stayed much the same, so now I'm at 15% (still paying more than I was in 2009).  I also live in a state that has no sales tax, a big perk especially for someone who needs everyday goods more than paying fees at my country club.  I still get a few dollars in 'cash back' but don't chase them.  I pay cash for things like my gas ($.10 off per gal).  Works out to close to a 3.5% immediate return.  I bank the rewards in my savings as I go along,  Non-existent sales tax (6.5% previous state), gas refunds, match my redeemed cash back & the 5% I saved on service tips.  I avoid fees at all times.  Amazes me that everyone expects to get a little extra on services that used to be free, & the service has become non-existent.
> 
> ...



First of all...ignore Mathjak. He's a know-it-all...or thinks he is...and has been a pain in the butt on several posts.

Second of all...don't leave. Just because someone doesn't live like you do (but thinks you should), just skip over their comments. I don't see anything wrong with your way of life and how you look at this CC thinking. It's not for everyone. I'm in the same boat as you as far as a "humbrum boring existence". I can't hear in restaurants because of all the background noise...and besides I don't like the food (I'd rather make my own so I know what's in it) and it's ridiculously priced besides. My step-son picked up 2 burgers and a regular order of fries for him and his dad last weekend and it was over $20!!. 

I signed up for cashback CC and I'm testing it out for a while to see if it actually is worth keeping track of.

Don't bail out just because of a negative comment or two. You're a part of this group and we value that.


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## mathjak107 (Aug 2, 2018)

i just base my comments on facts , it has nothing to do with being a know it all .

no  one is chastising his way of life .  the whole gripe is only because  he made all kinds of nonsensical  statements about how those who use rewards buy useless things  or have endless record keeping .  

hey , if he does not want to take part great , but to try to portray those who do it as  morons buying things they don't need or tracking all the parameters about their usage is just nonsense .

some of the statements that are made by some in these forums when it comes to financial matters are just filled with mis-information , old wives tales and just plain old believing your own bull-sh%t



Roadwarrior said:


> And of course you didn't buy any useless 'stuff' to get those miles.


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## fmdog44 (Aug 2, 2018)

Roadwarrior said:


> I've been chastised, criticized & insulted for my thoughts on the credit card game, or 'Chasing Rewards' as some call it.  I personally get a pension along with my SS.  Also have a 401K that pretty well sustains it's value after taking out my required withdrawal yearly for tax purposes.  My spouse, then my offspring will enjoy the fruits of my labor.  That being said I DID start playing the game in Mar '17.  Made a few bucks but obviously played it all wrong.  I wasn't into chasing the rewards simply because I neither fly or travel much other than my annual 'snow-birding' to AZ in the winter months (Nov-Mar) then back home to the PacNW so that I don't miss the ungodly wet months.  Being diabetic limits my eating habits, so I eat to live, not live to eat.  I limit myself to meals at restaurants that are less than $20 including coffee.  I don't drink, smoke, enjoy crowds, never did make friends very well so my entertainment dollar is spent on me, movie buff who would rather watch something on my laptop because of my hearing.
> 
> This winter while sitting in the sun I came up with a much better plan that piling up the 'cash back'.  I changed my outlook on tips to service personnel.  I had always been a 20% but found that meals & services started raising prices, but my income stayed much the same, so now I'm at 15% (still paying more than I was in 2009).  I also live in a state that has no sales tax, a big perk especially for someone who needs everyday goods more than paying fees at my country club.  I still get a few dollars in 'cash back' but don't chase them.  I pay cash for things like my gas ($.10 off per gal).  Works out to close to a 3.5% immediate return.  I bank the rewards in my savings as I go along,  Non-existent sales tax (6.5% previous state), gas refunds, match my redeemed cash back & the 5% I saved on service tips.  I avoid fees at all times.  Amazes me that everyone expects to get a little extra on services that used to be free, & the service has become non-existent.
> 
> ...



You are smart and deserve praise. Nice post.


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## fmdog44 (Aug 2, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> i just base my comments on facts , it has nothing to do with being a know it all .
> 
> no  one is chastising his way of life .  the whole gripe is only because  he made all kinds of nonsensical  statements about how those who use rewards buy useless things  or have endless record keeping .
> 
> ...



"Nonsensical"? You should pay more attention to some of your preachings because the only one in your audience is you. Your data input is 100% from books and that is fine if you are a student in the classroom otherwise, useless in practical applications.


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## mathjak107 (Aug 2, 2018)

ha ha ha what a cop out answer !!!!!!


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## ronaldj (Aug 2, 2018)

today I saved 2 dollars at one place,(card used) used 7 dollars of cash back in another, will receive 8 dollars cash back for todays spending which I would have bought anyway and am happier for doing so........ a 100 bucks is a 100 bucks but rain in a drought is a sight to behold.


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