# IBM: Get vaccinated or no pay and no 401K match



## Nosy Bee-54 (Oct 7, 2021)

IBM's workforce in the US is something like 345,000. Lots of their business comes from the federal government. You would think getting vaccinated would be a no brainer for highly skilled and educated employees. Nope! The company has now put them on notice. There is no threat to fire the refusers but the alternative isn't all that good either.

"IBM told U.S. employees this week that they must be fully vaccinated against Covid-19 by Dec. 8 or face an unpaid suspension.

 ... those who decline to be vaccinated will not be paid after Dec. 8 until they complete their vaccinations.

Employees removed from payroll also won’t be eligible for IBM’s 401K matching program. IBM matches 401K contributions up to 6% once a year on Dec. 15. *The match only goes to employees currently on payroll, meaning employees who miss IBM’s Dec. 8 vaccination deadline will have to forfeit their 401K match for the entire year."*

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/07/ibm...-be-vaccinated-or-face-unpaid-suspension.html


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## Becky1951 (Oct 7, 2021)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> IBM's workforce in the US is something like 345,000. Lots of their business comes from the federal government. You would think getting vaccinated would be a no brainer for highly skilled and educated employees. Nope! The company has now put them on notice. There is no threat to fire the refusers but the alternative isn't all that good either.
> 
> "IBM told U.S. employees this week that they must be fully vaccinated against Covid-19 by Dec. 8 or face an unpaid suspension.
> 
> ...


"highly skilled and educated"

What? Wait!  "highly skilled and educated" refusing to be vaccinated?

How many times I have read comments here stating that the unvaccinated were the uneducated.

Oh I don't know maybe around 100 times?

How refreshing to see someone say "highly skilled and educated" people are also refusing to be vaccinated.

Its not always the "uneducated". A high school or collage certificate doesn't guarantee intelligence. Nor does the lack of one guarantee ignorance. 


I'm not saying its right or wrong for anyone getting vaccinated or refusing.


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## Don M. (Oct 7, 2021)

These types of actions, by large companies, will become more commonplace, the longer this virus runs rampant.  IBM relies heavily on its workforce, and if increasing numbers of employees became ill, it would put a major dent in the companies services and revenues.  

I strongly suspect that more and more companies, businesses, and governments will be issuing Mandates and restrictions in coming months, as the number of those being vaccinated continues to decline.   We could easily see something like "vaccine passports" being mandated for any public activities.  

More and more, the unvaccinated may find themselves isolated from society.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 7, 2021)

"Employees removed from payroll also won’t be eligible for IBM’s 401K matching program. IBM matches 401K contributions up to 6% once a year on Dec. 15. *The match only goes to employees currently on payroll, meaning employees who miss IBM’s Dec. 8 vaccination deadline will have to forfeit their 401K match for the entire year."*

I was thinking about this and some might go ahead and take the 10% penalty and withdraw their 401 before the deadline.


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## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

IBM, I love you and all the others like you


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## chic (Oct 7, 2021)




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## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

chic said:


> View attachment 187998



Tell me s’il vous plaît, how do they do this??


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## Gaer (Oct 7, 2021)

I once worked for IBM.  It's a shame they have succumbed to Government mandates.  
Taking away the people's individualism is a sad thing.


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## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

Gaer said:


> I once worked for IBM.  It's a shame they have succumbed to Government mandates.
> Taking away the people's individualism is a sad thing.


I don't think this is taking away the people's individualism is the correct view. This is a major public health issue. One's individualism cannot be permitted to kill people, make them seriously ill, or deprive children of their parents. 

Today, I wrote to the actual decision maker at University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, a place where medical workers are not required to be vaccinated. That is reprehensible to me.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> I don't think this is taking away the people's individualism is the correct view. This is a major public health issue. One's individualism cannot be permitted to kill people, make them seriously ill, or deprive children of their parents.
> 
> Today, I wrote to the actual decision maker at University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, a place where medical workers are not required to be vaccinated. That is reprehensible to me.


Thanks, I admire that you're intelligent, reasonable and responsible.


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## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

Gaer said:


> I once worked for IBM.  It's a shame they have succumbed to Government mandates.
> Taking away the people's individualism is a sad thing.


Madame Gaer, have you noticed a world pandemic going on? There is no "individualism" .The plan is to keep people from dying!!!!


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## Becky1951 (Oct 7, 2021)

Shero said:


> Madame Gaer, have you noticed a world pandemic going on? There is no "individualism" .The plan is to keep people from dying!!!!


"Madame Gaer, have you noticed a world pandemic going on"

Gaer is a very intelligent woman who if fully aware of the Pandemic and your question is insulting.


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## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "Madame Gaer, have you noticed a world pandemic going on"
> 
> Gaer is a very intelligent woman who if fully aware of the Pandemic and your question is insulting.


Bonjour Becky! No insult intended to Ms Gaer but maybe she can answer for herself??


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## Ladybj (Oct 7, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "highly skilled and educated"
> 
> What? Wait!  "highly skilled and educated" refusing to be vaccinated?
> 
> ...


This is a HUGE RED FLAG of one of the reasons I doubt if I would get vaccinated.  OMG - being pushed harder than a street drug.


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## Ladybj (Oct 7, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "Employees removed from payroll also won’t be eligible for IBM’s 401K matching program. IBM matches 401K contributions up to 6% once a year on Dec. 15. *The match only goes to employees currently on payroll, meaning employees who miss IBM’s Dec. 8 vaccination deadline will have to forfeit their 401K match for the entire year."*
> 
> I was thinking about this and some might go ahead and take the 10% penalty and withdraw their 401 before the deadline.


I sure would...GEEZE!!!


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## senior chef (Oct 7, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "Madame Gaer, have you noticed a world pandemic going on"
> 
> Gaer is a very intelligent woman who if fully aware of the Pandemic and your question is insulting.


Becky, I see your quote of Shero. As usual, she is being rude.  Nothing new there. Best to ignore anything she says.


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## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

IBM is very generous and will allow medical and religious exemptions. I agree with medical, but religious? Non, non, non!!!!


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## Don M. (Oct 7, 2021)

I worked for IBM for about 30 years.  IMO, it is one of the best companies to work for, and they treat their employees very well.  However, they Do demand that their employees try to be good citizens, and follow the rules.  With the overwhelming amount of evidence showing the advantages of getting vaccinated, I can understand the companies position.  

There may be a few "new hires" that consider these rules a violation of their "privacy", but I suspect that number will be Very Small.  Anyone who has worked for the company for awhile will recognize the wisdom of staying with the company and taking advantage of its excellent benefits.


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## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> This is a HUGE RED FLAG of one of the reasons I doubt if I would get vaccinated.  OMG - being pushed harder than a street drug.


Yeah, they want the danger of Covid to go way down so we can have our lives back. Street drugs do not prolong lifespans.


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## Ladybj (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Yeah, they want the danger of Covid to go way down so we can have our lives back. Street drugs do not prolong lifespans.


I do understand street drugs do not prolong lifespans - my comment is they are pushing the vaccine harder than someone pushing street drugs....YIKES!!!!


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## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

Shero said:


> IBM is very generous and will allow medical and religious exemptions. I agree with medical, but religious? Non, non, non!!!!


I agree with you.


Becky1951 said:


> How many times I have read comments here stating that the unvaccinated were the uneducated.


They are uneducated about science.


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## Ladybj (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> I agree with you.
> 
> They are uneducated about science.


Is Science always 100% accurate?????


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 7, 2021)

Shero said:


> Madame Gaer, have you noticed a world pandemic going on? There is no "individualism" .The plan is to keep people from dying!!!!


Exactly!  I'm not one for vaccinations, don't even take the annual flu shot, but for this deadly pandemic, you bet I took the vaccine when available and will get the booster when it's available also.  I may die of many things in my old age, but I don't want to die on a ventilator from a deadly virus. Also, I want what is best for my country, and that it to try and beat this coronavirus and get back to normal life.  Over 700,000 deceased in the US, may they rest peacefully.  Sympathy and love to their families.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> I do understand street drugs do not prolong lifespans - my comment is they are pushing the vaccine harder than someone pushing street drugs....YIKES!!!!


They are urging people to get it because it saves lives.  Those who get vaccinated will have less severe effects if they do get the virus, unlikely to die in a hospital from it.  Over 700,000 dead since the beginning of the pandemic, never forget.


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## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> Is Science always 100% accurate?????


It sure can be. I'd rather live, thank you, and *I'd also rather not be the cause of infections in my family, friends, and community*. There is a lot more at stake with Covid, which continues to be a public health menace, and which is a very serious public health issue. 

Every single person I know who refuses to be vaccinated gets their information from completely unreliable sources, including FB, QAnon, Fox News, conspiracy theorists, and from politicians who hold public office, such as the governor of Mississippi. I'll take my chances with science. So far, so good. I didn't feel the injections and I didn't have any of the (mostly minor) side effects of getting vaccinated.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Yeah, they want the danger of Covid to go way down so we can have our lives back.


Amen!  If people would stop whining about getting vaccinated and take the available shots, this country would be in much better shape than we are in today.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> It sure can be. I'd rather live, thank you, and *I'd also rather not be the cause of infections in my family, friends, and community*. There is a lot more at stake with Covid, which continues to be a public health menace, and which is a very serious public health issue.
> 
> Every single person I know who refuses to be vaccinated gets their information from completely unreliable sources, including FB, QAnon, Fox News, conspiracy theorists, and from politicians who hold public office, such as the governor of Mississippi. I'll take my chances with science. So far, so good. I didn't feel the injections and I didn't have any of the (mostly minor) side effects of getting vaccinated.


I don't know anyone in real life who has refused to take the COVID-19 vaccine.  Like you said, the ones who refused have been brainwashed by disinformation and conspiracy from questionable sources.  Hopefully they will soon wake up for their own sake and the health of those around them.


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## senior chef (Oct 7, 2021)

I am curious to know what % of people become deathly ill following a Covid vaccination ? 
The other day I saw something on Microsoft news about U.S. Army doctors reporting that men in the prime of life, and in perfect health,  suddenly, and without any warning developed a host of terrible symptoms. (sorry , I don't have the link )


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## Warrigal (Oct 7, 2021)

Chef, unless you can nominate the source your statement is nothing but hearsay.
Do you mind if I attempt to verify your claim?

Too late. I already checked and this is what came up. Snopes has done some digging for the facts.



> Have More Military Personnel Died from COVID Vaccines than Disease Itself?​In the first six weeks it was available online, a video claiming as much garnered nearly 900,000 views.​(This is why you wont be able to find the source. It has been taken down. By whom I cannot say.)
> 
> *Key Facts:*​
> There is no verifiable evidence that COVID-19 vaccines have killed, or will kill, more military personnel than the disease itself.
> ...



​​


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## Irwin (Oct 7, 2021)

I picked up a pizza the other day from Jet's Pizza and not one worker there was wearing a mask. About half the customers going in and out wore masks, but nobody working there was, which was extremely inconsiderate of them. They may all have been vaccinated, I don't know. I know that I won't be going back there again. I'll be damned if I'm going to risk my health for a pizza.


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## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I am curious to know what % of people become deathly ill following a Covid vaccination ?
> The other day I saw something on Microsoft news about U.S. Army doctors reporting that men in the prime of life, and in perfect health,  suddenly, and without any warning developed a host of terrible symptoms. (sorry , I don't have the link )


 don't have a link? that's because none exist chefie!


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## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> I do understand street drugs do not prolong lifespans - my comment is they are pushing the vaccine harder than someone pushing street drugs....YIKES!!!!


I don't think sellers have to push street drugs very hard. This based on my knowledge via my former profession.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 7, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I am curious to know what % of people become deathly ill following a Covid vaccination ?
> The other day I saw something on Microsoft news about U.S. Army doctors reporting that men in the prime of life, and in perfect health,  suddenly, and without any warning developed a host of terrible symptoms. (sorry , I don't have the link )





Shero said:


> don't have a link? that's because none exist chefie!


Yes there is. It's something like .0002% if I remember right. I think I saw that on the CDC website, and I'm pretty sure that's just for the USA.


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## Devi (Oct 7, 2021)

Here's something which can't be attributed to questionable sources or hearsay:

*Scientist shows vaccine effects in autopsies. Don't believe it? See for yourself.*


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## Becky1951 (Oct 7, 2021)

Shero said:


> don't have a link? that's because none exist chefie!


Obviously there had to of been a link to begin with otherwise Snopes wouldn't have anything to say about it.   Also Chef didn't say they died, he said deathly ill, big difference.


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## Devi (Oct 7, 2021)

Did anyone view the video I posted a link to? It wasn't "good news" about the vaccine. Here it is again (since it isn't on the SF forums list of accepted video websites — it's on bitchute.com — I can't display the actual video here):

*Scientist shows vaccine effects in autopsies. Don't believe it? See for yourself.*


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## chic (Oct 8, 2021)

Shero said:


> Tell me s’il vous plaît, how do they do this??


It's unfolding before your eyes, dear. Make businesses mandate what you don't dare to because you promised you never would mandate this but of course you had this strategy plotted long in advance. It's our great "freedom of choice" which is non existent if it isn't their freedom of choice for us. We have no free choices anymore.


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## senior chef (Oct 8, 2021)

I am neither for, nor against, the vaccine.  I simply don't have enough information to make a decision.
When I go out, I always wear a mask. 
For a wide variety of reasons, I limit my semi-close contact with others to that which I can not get around. (city bus, once/month). I do not have CLOSE physical contact with anyone.
I must, however, walk my puppy 3-4 times/day, but I do my very best to steer clear of others.

PS: here in Mexico, no one gets inside a market or fast food joint without a mask. And they require patrons to hold their hand up against a temp reading device. And all markets , fast food joints, that I have been in, have someone on duty to spray your hands with alcohol, as you enter.


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## Alligatorob (Oct 8, 2021)

I have no problem with private companies requiring what they want of employees.  However I would be interested to know how this is being pushed or forced by the government.  Does anyone understand that?  Is it a requirement with some kind of teeth, or just a suggestion the company has decided to follow?



Becky1951 said:


> employees who miss IBM’s Dec. 8 vaccination deadline will have to forfeit their 401K match for the entire year.


Note that the article has been amended to correct this statement, no one will lose the 401k match.  A minor thing...


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## oldnewb (Oct 8, 2021)

Where I live in Tasmania Australia, we have been pretty lucky so far but tow of Australian mainland states New South Wales and Victoria are in the grip of a third wave at the moment which started by an infected removal truck driver traveling through those states.
It is mandatory for all health workers to be fully vaccinated to continue to work right around Australia.
Both my wife and myself are fully vaccinated, my wife having the Phizer and I had the Astrazenica with no side affects other missing out on a lolly pop. (Ha!)

No matter how any one looks at  it; the science doesn't lye especially with 4millian + dead around the world and still counting.


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## Shero (Oct 8, 2021)

chic said:


> It's unfolding before your eyes, dear. Make businesses mandate what you don't dare to because you promised you never would mandate this but of course you had this strategy plotted long in advance. It's our great "freedom of choice" which is non existent if it isn't their freedom of choice for us. We have no free choices anymore.


Ma Cherie, what is unfolding? I do not understand your view. You say you have no “freedom of choice” there plenty of choice, but you cannot make them if you die from covid.


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## Shero (Oct 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Also Chef didn't say they died, he said deathly ill, big difference.


Becky ,“deathly ill” means at death’s door. That means they are not getting off that bed ever!!!


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## Sunny (Oct 8, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> I do understand street drugs do not prolong lifespans - my comment is they are pushing the vaccine harder than someone pushing street drugs....YIKES!!!!


They should be pushing it harder. Just as they wiped out smallpox by pushing that vaccine.  That took away people's right to get, spread, and die of that terrible scourge. How outrageous.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 8, 2021)

Sunny said:


> They should be pushing it harder. Just as they wiped out smallpox by pushing that vaccine.  That took away people's right to get, spread, and die of that terrible scourge. How outrageous.


Ideally they wouldn't have to push it at all, but in this day and age, instead of people being grateful that there is some protection from a worldwide deadly virus, they are in a conspiracy rabbit hole and not acting realistically.  I'm for whatever it takes to get the majority of Americans vaccinated, free up hospital beds, give the dedicated medical workers a well deserved break and get back to some form of normal.  This rebellion is nonsense, and it negatively affects all Americans.  Rest in peace to the 700,000+ Americans who are no longer living due to this pandemic.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 8, 2021)

Devi said:


> Did anyone view the video I posted a link to? It wasn't "good news" about the vaccine. Here it is again (since it isn't on the SF forums list of accepted video websites — it's on bitchute.com — I can't display the actual video here):
> 
> *Scientist shows vaccine effects in autopsies. Don't believe it? See for yourself.*


Another nutter making a video to spread disinformation about life saving vaccines.  Why do you help to spread these lies around, you are part of the problem?  Also, using a site like Bitchute that is known to promote hate speech, lies, conspiracies, disinformation, terrorism, etc.  I don't care if you fall for this garbage, but please don't spread it to others. 

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitChute
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/s...ess-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/*


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 8, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Chef, unless you can nominate the source your statement is nothing but hearsay.
> Do you mind if I attempt to verify your claim?
> 
> Too late. I already checked and this is what came up. Snopes has done some digging for the facts.
> ...


Thanks Warrigal for bringing some truth here.  glad they took that site/link down.  Bad enough these harmful lies are spread on social media and areas of the internet, people are just being brainwashed by it, with no effort to see the truthful side of the story.  I'm glad some on youtube and facebook are removing the conspiracies, lies and misinformation.


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## AnnieA (Oct 8, 2021)

Don M. said:


> ...   We could easily see something like "vaccine passports" being mandated for any public activities.
> 
> More and more, the unvaccinated may find themselves isolated from society.





Shero said:


> IBM, I love you and all the others like you





WheatenLover said:


> I don't think this is taking away the people's individualism is the correct view. This is a major public health issue. One's individualism cannot be permitted to kill people, make them seriously ill, or deprive children of their parents.





SeaBreeze said:


> Amen!  If people would stop whining about getting vaccinated and take the available shots, this country would be in much better shape than we are in today.




Why not include antibody passports based on antibody blood tests for those recovered from Covid who have antibodies superior to vaccine induced antibodies?


.


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## Jules (Oct 8, 2021)

Shero said:


> IBM is very generous and will allow medical and religious exemptions. I agree with medical, but religious? Non, non, non!!!!


How many people will ‘find religion’ when it will work as an exemption.  Is this a specific type of religion such as Jehovah Witnesses who have a long history of declining medical intervention?  

Just like doctors who will hand out addictive pills, there‘ll be those who will be glad to sign an exemption.  

One of the three largest areas of spread in BC was within religious groups.


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## Gaer (Oct 8, 2021)

Devi said:


> Did anyone view the video I posted a link to? It wasn't "good news" about the vaccine. Here it is again (since it isn't on the SF forums list of accepted video websites — it's on bitchute.com — I can't display the actual video here):
> 
> *Scientist shows vaccine effects in autopsies. Don't believe it? See for yourself.*


DEVI:  THIS VIDEO IS INCREDIBLE!


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## Pepper (Oct 8, 2021)

The incredible video posted is from BitChute: @Gaer, @Devi
"BitChute is a video hosting service launched by Ray Vahey in January 2017. *It is known for accommodating far-right individuals and conspiracy theorists, and for hosting hate speech*." Wikipedia

I guess you don't care where you get your information from, or what they stand for.  You're known by the company you keep my mother used to say.


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## Devi (Oct 8, 2021)

Okay, got the name-calling. Guess you didn't view the video, which was recorded by a scientist. Surprised you're using Wikipedia as a source to denigrate, but whatever. Nevertheless, how about this:

"Attorney John Howard and Davillier Law Group, with support from America’s Frontline Doctors (AFLDS) filed a Complaint on Thursday in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California against Kaiser Permanente
...
AFLDS has been outspoken that COVID vaccine mandates are both illegal as a matter of law and unsafe as a matter of science. They are illegal because the shots do not stop transmission of Delta and therefore are personal treatment choices only. They are unsafe because they cause the vaccinated to become super-spreaders with extremely high viral loads and because the vaccinated become more critically ill with a higher rate of hospitalization and death than the unvaccinated. In addition, there are far more effective and safer treatments used all over the world. For example, the nation of India has declared its largest state with 240 million population “Covid-free” with a very low vaccination rate but a very high ivermectin usage rate.
..."

https://americasfrontlinedoctors.or...-filed-a-complaint-against-kaiser-permanente/

Kinda different than the public relations have said.

And, I'm outta here. It's getting pretty bullying in here.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 8, 2021)

Shero said:


> Becky ,“deathly ill” means at death’s door. That means they are not getting off that bed ever!!!


No, there are cases of deathly ill, recovering. So it doesn't mean, "That means they are not getting off that bed ever!!!" Even Terminally ill patients have been known to recover.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 8, 2021)

Devi said:


> Okay, got the name-calling. Guess you didn't view the video, which was recorded by a scientist. Surprised you're using Wikipedia as a source to denigrate, but whatever. Nevertheless, how about this:
> 
> "Attorney John Howard and Davillier Law Group, with support from America’s Frontline Doctors (AFLDS) filed a Complaint on Thursday in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California against Kaiser Permanente
> ...
> ...


"And, I'm outta here. It's getting pretty bullying in here."

Don't let the bullies run you away that's what they are hoping for.   Remember that lovely "ignore" feature? If they can't comment without name calling, use it. Anyone who has to call names to get their point across loses their creditability of the point they are making.


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## Lewkat (Oct 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "highly skilled and educated"
> 
> What? Wait!  "highly skilled and educated" refusing to be vaccinated?
> 
> ...


People have been researching and learned that this vaccine contains fetal cells and material.  Total turnoff to say the least.


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## Devi (Oct 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "And, I'm outta here. It's getting pretty bullying in here."
> 
> Don't let the bullies run you away that's what they are hoping for.   Remember that lovely "ignore" feature? If they can't comment without name calling, use it. Anyone who has to call names to get their point across loses their creditability of the point they are making.


Thanks, Becky, for reminding me. I think I'll do just that.


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## Pepper (Oct 8, 2021)

*America's Frontline Doctors* (*AFLDS*) is an American conservative political organization. Affiliated with Tea Party Patriots.

Yes, I'm on a roll.  Your misinformation is coming from right wing forces.  So that must mean something.  Why would a doctor organization be political?  Doctors have never organized by political beliefs.  Why now?  If you are aware of this, you are only saying who you are when you take their misinformation as truth and spread it.

It's not bullying when people won't defend lies.  As a country, we're on the brink.........................


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## Becky1951 (Oct 8, 2021)

I just don't get it, I really don't. If information comes from a certain political organization that's not yours you assume its false? 

The media has been doing exactly what it has intended to do, continue to make it seem that the vaccine choices are based on political affiliation when in most cases is is not.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 8, 2021)

Pepper said:


> *America's Frontline Doctors* (*AFLDS*) is an American conservative political organization. Affiliated with Tea Party Patriots.
> 
> Yes, I'm on a roll.  Your misinformation is coming from right wing forces.  So that must mean something.  Why would a doctor organization be political?  Doctors have never organized by political beliefs.  Why now?  If you are aware of this, you are only saying who you are when you take their misinformation as truth and spread it.
> 
> It's not bullying when people won't defend lies.  As a country, we're on the brink.........................


"It's not bullying when people won't defend lies"

It is bullying when they call those who don't agree names.


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## Pepper (Oct 8, 2021)

Example, please.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 8, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Example, please.


Seriously pepper? I'm sure you have read all the Covid topics and comments in this forum, how could you possible miss the name calling? You know, "those who believe that are stupid" "uneducated" "ignorant" "non caring people" "unpatriotic" "cowering" etc.


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## Pepper (Oct 8, 2021)

Did *I* call you those names? @Becky1951


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## Becky1951 (Oct 8, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Did *I* call you those names? @Becky1951


Did I say you did? No. I think there is some confusion here. I was referring to the post regarding name calling and being bullying. Sorry, it wasn't directed to you. Just that defending a point with name calling is bullying.


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## Tish (Oct 8, 2021)

You do what you must, to keep people safe and yourself safe.
You may think this is taking away from your freedom of choice but in the long run, it keeps everyone safe.


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## Shero (Oct 8, 2021)

Jules said:


> How many people will ‘find religion’ when it will work as an exemption.  Is this a specific type of religion such as Jehovah Witnesses who have a long history of declining medical intervention?
> 
> Just like doctors who will hand out addictive pills, there‘ll be those who will be glad to sign an exemption.
> 
> One of the three largest areas of spread in BC was within religious groups.


Maybe Jules, but you are right. Soon all the anti-vaxxers will find relgion, the churches will be full !!


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## Shero (Oct 8, 2021)

Gaer said:


> DEVI:  THIS VIDEO IS INCREDIBLE!



Yes!! it is INCREDIBLE!  Incredible STUPIDE!!!


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 8, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> People have been researching and learned that this vaccine contains fetal cells and material.  Total turnoff to say the least.


That seems to be another false claim Lewkat, here are a couple of articles which comment on that claim.

https://www.uclahealth.org/webview.cfm?id=3680&cat=Addressing+Concerns

No, the COVID-19 vaccines do not contain aborted fetal cells. However, Johnson & Johnson did use fetal cell lines — not fetal tissue — when developing and producing their vaccine, while Pfizer and Moderna used fetal cell lines to test their vaccines and make sure that they work.
Fetal cell lines are grown in a laboratory and were started with cells from elective abortions that occurred several decades ago in the 1970s-80s. They are now thousands of generations removed from the original fetal tissue. None of the COVID-19 vaccines use fetal cells derived from recent abortions.
We understand this is a sensitive issue, and specifically important to religious communities. We’d like to provide some additional context on this topic. On Jan. 27, the California Catholic Conference noted in an official statement that they support the use of all COVID-19 vaccines, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, to prevent the continued spread of COVID-19. Pope Francis also publicly supported COVID-19 vaccination and the Vatican has issued a statement saying it is morally acceptable to receive COVID-19 vaccines that have used cell lines from aborted fetuses in their research and production process.
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https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...gredients-listed-in-these-posts-idUSKBN2AQ2SW

Cloned fetal cells (not fetal tissue) are sometimes used in the development, confirmation or production process of making vaccines – including the COVID-19 vaccine ( here  , here  ). The Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines, are not made using human cells, but they have been used in vaccine testing.

Human embryonic kidney (HEK) cells are not fetal cells taken from recent abortions, but from cell lines derived from decades old fetal cells (more detail on this  here  ).


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## Shero (Oct 8, 2021)

***************
In the context of the strategic partnership with the Government of the United Kingdom, WHO has joined forces with its communications teams to raise awareness of misinformation around COVID-19 and encourage individuals to report false or misleading content online.

This cooperation started with the joint *Stop the Spread* campaign in May-June 2020, which encouraged the use of trusted sources such as WHO and national health authorities for accurate COVID-19 information. The new phase of the joint campaign focuses on proactively identifying and reporting potentially wrong or misleading information, as part of WHO's efforts to address the spread of inaccurate and harmful information during the pandemic.

Learn more about inaccurate information on the *WHO myth busters pages*.

https://www.who.int/campaigns/conne...lid=EAIaIQobChMI9vWv5Py78wIVSWoqCh3iBwF1EAAYA


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 8, 2021)

Shero said:


> ***************
> In the context of the strategic partnership with the Government of the United Kingdom, WHO has joined forces with its communications teams to raise awareness of misinformation around COVID-19 and encourage individuals to report false or misleading content online.
> 
> This cooperation started with the joint *Stop the Spread* campaign in May-June 2020, which encouraged the use of trusted sources such as WHO and national health authorities for accurate COVID-19 information. The new phase of the joint campaign focuses on proactively identifying and reporting potentially wrong or misleading information, as part of WHO's efforts to address the spread of inaccurate and harmful information during the pandemic.
> ...


Thank you for that information, very useful!


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## Ladybj (Oct 10, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> I don't think sellers have to push street drugs very hard. This based on my knowledge via my former profession.


My point exactly!!!!!.


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## Ladybj (Oct 10, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Amen!  If people would stop whining about getting vaccinated and take the available shots, this country would be in much better shape than we are in today.


No disrespect to you at all and you have a right to your opinion... but YIKES!!!!  You really believe if everyone take the vaccine this country  would be in much better shape - you believe its really due to a vaccine - YIKES!!!  Again, you have every right to how you feel.  People are not whining, they are doing what they feel is best for them as you did what was best for you.  You have no idea how the vaccine has effected some people.  Why?  Because that info is not released.  I am praying for my husband.  And Gary O is definitely in my prayers regarding his son.


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## WheatenLover (Oct 10, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> My point exactly!!!!!.


The Covid vaccine saves lives. Too many people have died.


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## Ladybj (Oct 10, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> The Covid vaccine saves lives. Too many people have died.


No disrespect but that is what we are told to believe.  I have not seen any medical records nor autopsies to determine cause of death.


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## mellowyellow (Oct 10, 2021)

Unless employees are of retirement age, they'll eventually come round.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 10, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> No disrespect to you at all and you have a right to your opinion... but YIKES!!!!  You really believe if everyone take the vaccine this country  would be in much better shape - you believe its really due to a vaccine - YIKES!!!  Again, you have every right to how you feel.  People are not whining, they are doing what they feel is best for them as you did what was best for you.  You have no idea how the vaccine has effected some people.  Why?  Because that info is not released.  I am praying for my husband.  And Gary O is definitely in my prayers regarding his son.


Yes, the vaccine has been proven to save lives and keep people out of the hospital even if they do contract the virus afterwards.  If everyone got vaccinated, wore masks and socially distanced early on when recommended, our country would be in much better shape today than it is.  Also, there wouldn't be over 700,000 Americans dead, the number would likely be greatly reduced.

There was a deadly virus spreading worldwide, I did the responsible and considerate thing.  What you do is your business, but unfortunately in this case, it affects other people.  This is the pandemic of the unvaccinated, they are taking up hospital beds and dying, they are most likely to spread the virus to others.  No yikes here, just common sense.  If people want life to get back to normal again, they need to get the vaccine.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 10, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> The Covid vaccine saves lives. Too many people have died.


Exactly, that has been proven.  Those who are in denial are not facing reality, 700,000+ _is _too many people for sure.  This is serious, not a cold or the flu.


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## WheatenLover (Oct 11, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> No disrespect but that is what we are told to believe.  I have not seen any medical records nor autopsies to determine cause of death.


How big would a reliable statistical sample size be?


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