# Putin Losing Support, Thousands March Against Ukraine Fighting



## SeaBreeze (Sep 21, 2014)

Moscow Peace March...Thousands are marching against the Ukraine fighting in Russia, Putin losing support.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/21/moscow-peace-march_n_5856686.html


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## Davey Jones (Sep 21, 2014)

I doubt he is losing any popularity support..Now Obama on the other hand......

*Putin's Popularity* Soars to 87% in the Face of Adversity | TIME  Aug 5th.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 21, 2014)

Maybe an early August tone vs a late September one shows some change in Putin support?


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## Warrigal (Sep 21, 2014)

Putin doesn't need support. He has power. Lots of power.


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 22, 2014)

As long as there is enough vodka on the otherwise empty shelves he will survive...


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## Jackie22 (Sep 22, 2014)

Putin is a liar and not to be trusted.....the reason he was ever popular is that the Russians want a Czar like figure, and that is what he is, he is former KGB, enough said.  I don't have a lot of respect for anyone that would hold him in high regard.


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 22, 2014)

He saw an opportunity to restore Russia to some semblance of its former glory and he took it.  Whether it will pan out in his favor in the long long remains to be seen...


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## QuickSilver (Sep 22, 2014)

Doubt if popular opinion is going to sway Putin... Can you believe that some in this country think he is a wonderful!!?? Wonder how they would like him "leading" here.. and to be living under his leadership. He's a despot and a dictator...... I mean a REAL despot and dictator... Not some Conservative fantasy.


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## Warrigal (Sep 22, 2014)

He's more Stalin and Kruschev than Gorbachev and he's come from the KGB so he knows how to protect his power. He is a real threat unless the fates intervene and he falls from his horse one day while galloping on uneven ground. One can only hope.


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## Debby (Sep 22, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Doubt if popular opinion is going to sway Putin... Can you believe that some in this country think he is a wonderful!!?? Wonder how they would like him "leading" here.. and to be living under his leadership. He's a despot and a dictator...... I mean a REAL despot and dictator... Not some Conservative fantasy.






I've watched the Russia/Ukraine/America situation with great interest.  And to be honest, I can't see much difference between the US administration and the 'spectre of Putin' that Western media/the government has raised.  Take into account the losses of civil liberties that American citizens have experienced since 9/11, plus the decision to destabilize the Middle East and the current efforts of America to install NATO on the borders of Russia and I ask....where's the difference?  Secrecy, threats, hidden agenda's, NSA spying on everybody including 'friends' and citizens, torture, setting up puppet governments to do their bidding, blowing up countries (Libya and Iraq and Somalia to name 3) all on the dance card of America.

On the other hand, when Obama wanted to blast Syria's Assad for chemical weapons that were never proven to be used by him, Putin stepped in and diplomatically got Assad to turn over those weapons, thereby ending that particular little episode peacefully and preventing even more civilian deaths by American bombs.  Keep in mind as you think of that, that America has been arming the terrorists/al Qaeda who are seeking to bring down that government.  So you have the guys who 'were attacked by al Qaeda, arming al Qaeda.  Truly fascinating.

American professor Sharon Tennison has written a great article on Putin and one that we would all do well to read to understand the man that America is trying to provoke into war.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-is-vladimir-putin-why-does-the-us-government-hate-him/5381205

Her credentials are outstanding and can be read here:  http://www.human.cornell.edu/bio.cfm?netid=st96


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## QuickSilver (Sep 22, 2014)

I understand Putin is planning on restricting internet access to Russians.  Hmmmmmm    Wonder how many people here would want that?  People should stop and think for a moment before glorifying Putin over our President.  




> While declaring the demise of the West, Russian President Vladimir Putin is close to enacting sweeping new powers to regulate the Web and block sites of his government’s choosing.  He has received support from Natalya Kaspersky, chief executive of InfoWatch, who said that the Web could use some government control and that civil libertarians are exaggerating concerns about Putin’s control of speech on the Internet. For those people signing up with InfoWatch, it may come as a bit of a surprise that the company is aligned with a man who is rolling back on basic civil liberties for millions and working to limit speech on the Internet — a threat to his authoritarian agenda.



http://jonathanturley.org/2012/07/1...s-putin-crackdown-supported-by-infowatch-ceo/


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## QuickSilver (Sep 22, 2014)

Debby said:


> I've watched the Russia/Ukraine/America situation with great interest. And to be honest, I can't see much difference between the US administration and the 'spectre of Putin' that Western media/the government has raised. Take into account the losses of civil liberties that American citizens have experienced since 9/11, plus the decision to destabilize the Middle East and the current efforts of America to install NATO on the borders of Russia and I ask....where's the difference? Secrecy, threats, hidden agenda's, NSA spying on everybody including 'friends' and citizens, torture, setting up puppet governments to do their bidding, blowing up countries (Libya and Iraq and Somalia to name 3) all on the dance card of America.
> 
> On the other hand, when Obama wanted to blast Syria's Assad for chemical weapons that were never proven to be used by him, Putin stepped in and diplomatically got Assad to turn over those weapons, thereby ending that particular little episode peacefully and preventing even more civilian deaths by American bombs. Keep in mind as you think of that, that America has been arming the terrorists/al Qaeda who are seeking to bring down that government. So you have the guys who 'were attacked by al Qaeda, arming al Qaeda. Truly fascinating.
> 
> ...




Call me crazy... but I would rather have it CIA monitoring my phone than not knowing about planned Terrorist attacks.  I have no problem with the data collection.  If they can get info to prevent another 9/11...  great..  I'm not concerned if they know when my mamo appointment is or if the groomer can fit my dog in for a haircut.    I suggest to everyone who finds Putin so enthralling.... go live there for a while..   Then tell us how horrible the loss of liberty in this country is.


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## Jackie22 (Sep 22, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Call me crazy... but I would rather have it CIA monitoring my phone than not knowing about planned Terrorist attacks.  I have no problem with the data collection.  If they can get info to prevent another 9/11...  great..  I'm not concerned if they know when my mamo appointment is or if the groomer can fit my dog in for a haircut.    I suggest to everyone who finds Putin so enthralling.... go live there for a while..   Then tell us how horrible the loss of liberty in this country is.



Exactly!


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 22, 2014)

I don't mind the CIA either so long as they don't reveal conversations with my many mistresses...


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## QuickSilver (Sep 22, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> I don't mind the CIA either so long as they don't reveal conversations with my many mistresses...



Presuming your mistresses won't compare notes.


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 22, 2014)

Yes, and aren't multilingual...


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## Debby (Sep 22, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I understand Putin is planning on restricting internet access to Russians.  Hmmmmmm    Wonder how many people here would want that?  People should stop and think for a moment before glorifying Putin over our President.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I know that was in part directed at me, but I'm not glorifying anyone.  What I am doing is pointing out that the American/Canadian/British media is telling you only what those governments want you to hear and that Putin isn't the monster they would have you think he is.  Reading the other side of the story is critical to get an accurate understanding of any story and unless you read the article by Cornell University professor Sharon Tennison, then you are getting only what the White House wants you to hear.  

I also am curious as to your thoughts on the multitude of bad acts by the American administration (starting at least back in 1991 when they decided to destabilize the ME) and how they compare in total to that action of Putin calming the situation with Syria and doing it diplomatically instead of causing more grief to the civilians of that country?  What exactly are your thoughts on those issues?  Too easy to throw out one liners when what is needed is deep and concise thinking with all the info at hand.

Here is one more article for you to actively peruse so that you can speak from a well educated standpoint on this man that your government is trying desperately to paint into a corner.  http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-real...blic-opinion-regarding-ukraine-crisis/5402480


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## QuickSilver (Sep 22, 2014)

I am the first to admit that the US shouldn't have gone into Iraq.  Bush and CHeney are war criminals in my opinion and should be in prison... not on the Sunday talk shows.  I know that America has it's flaws... but to say that Putin is being painted in a bad light is silly.  He IS dangerous.. and he IS a thug... 

Are you saying that I am NOT educated on world affairs and politics...  There are those that would disagree with you.. BUT I am gainfully employed and very busy at the moment.. When I have some time... as you do... I will be happy to accept your challenge to debate..  It's not a problem..


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## Debby (Sep 22, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Call me crazy... but I would rather have it CIA monitoring my phone than not knowing about planned Terrorist attacks.  I have no problem with the data collection.  If they can get info to prevent another 9/11...  great..  I'm not concerned if they know when my mamo appointment is or if the groomer can fit my dog in for a haircut.    I suggest to everyone who finds Putin so enthralling.... go live there for a while..   Then tell us how horrible the loss of liberty in this country is.




Then I guess you also don't mind the other losses of civil liberties that Americans have suffered in the interim?  You don't mind that your government, the home of democracy, justice and freedom for all, has changed or eliminated due process under the law, can pick up citizens, hold them without charge indefinitely, try and convict them without identifying the laws they've broken, and engages in torture. Obama has claimed the right to assassinate American citizens without due process and has begun the process of abandoning the Miranda rights protections 'if they should choose to'.  http://www.civilfreedoms.org/?p=7260

Your government is the West's KGB and pretending it is anything different is choosing to believe something that is patently false and presents a very real danger to not only you citizens but to the rest of the world.  And I hasten to say here, that as critical of the American administrations as I tend to be, I'm equally critical of my own government right now.  

We are squandering our environment and affecting the worlds environment by our tar sands in Alberta and my governments throwing away of all relevant information that could come out of the sciences as regards climate change and our environment by getting rid of or seriously controlling the sciences.  I'm critical of my government on any number of issues and I let them know about it.  I'm also very critical of my own government, particularly Stephen Harper's interest in tucking his nose up the backside of American interests be they corporate or the government as regards Ukraine/Russia.  All in the name of votes and ignore the facts!


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## QuickSilver (Sep 22, 2014)

Debby said:


> Then I guess you also don't mind the other losses of civil liberties that Americans have suffered in the interim? You don't mind that your government, the home of democracy, justice and freedom for all, has changed or eliminated due process under the law, can pick up citizens, hold them without charge indefinitely, try and convict them without identifying the laws they've broken, and engages in torture. Obama has claimed the right to assassinate American citizens without due process and has begun the process of abandoning the Miranda rights protections 'if they should choose to'. http://www.civilfreedoms.org/?p=7260
> 
> Your government is the West's KGB and pretending it is anything different is choosing to believe something that is patently false and presents a very real danger to not only you citizens but to the rest of the world. And I hasten to say here, that as critical of the American administrations as I tend to be, I'm equally critical of my own government right now.
> 
> We are squandering our environment and affecting the worlds environment by our tar sands in Alberta and my governments throwing away of all relevant information that could come out of the sciences as regards climate change and our environment by getting rid of or seriously controlling the sciences. I'm critical of my government on any number of issues and I let them know about it. I'm also very critical of my own government, particularly Stephen Harper's interest in tucking his nose up the backside of American interests be they corporate or the government as regards Ukraine/Russia. All in the name of votes and ignore the facts!



Whoa lady... pull in your horns..  MY government?   If you are ranting and raving on about Gitmo..  I agree.. we have no right to hold those people.  It's unconstitutional.. and again... Obama wanted to close it but Republicans blocked that, it should have been closed years ago.   

As for the NSA data collecting?  I'm all for it.. collect away.. If it's going to prevent terrorist attacks I don't  mind one bit.  Why should you?  Calling us the West KGB is a tad over the top...  don't you think?


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## Debby (Sep 22, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I am the first to admit that the US shouldn't have gone into Iraq.  Bush and CHeney are war criminals in my opinion and should be in prison... not on the Sunday talk shows.  I know that America has it's flaws... but to say that Putin is being painted in a bad light is silly.  He IS dangerous.. and he IS a thug...
> 
> Are you saying that I am NOT educated on world affairs and politics...  There are those that would disagree with you.. BUT I am gainfully employed and very busy at the moment.. When I have some time... as you do... I will be happy to accept your challenge to debate..  It's not a problem..





Sorry Quicksilver, but yes, I am saying you aren't informed about Putin and Ukraine and you probably aren't informed about the ME destabilization plan that was made in 1991.  And you probably aren't aware that Gaddafi was a pretty decent leader (free houses, free medical care, free education, gas at 14 cents a litre, check every year for every citizen of Libya from the countries oil sales, etc.) and not at all what your government would have you think.  And I don't think you understand the level of manipulation by America that went into bringing Gaddafi down or that it happened because Gaddafi wanted to quit using the American dollar and use gold instead for his country's oil sales.  

I also don't think you know that Iraq's leader was brought down because he wanted to start trading his oil for euros instead of using the American dollar and that the CIA operative who was a liaison between Iraq and America was thrown in a jail for a year without charges because she had the gall to try to stop the invasion of Iraq by directly approaching somebody in the White House staff when her own higher ups wouldn't listen.  And I'll bet you don't know that Susan Lindauer also knew about and warned that the 9/11 attack was going to happen months in advance.  http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/lindauer/   and this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGI4jfwOmOk

In a sense, you shouldn't feel too bad about being uninformed on any of these issues because your government has done a masterful job of skewing the information.  They have a western media that is 'managed' (i.e. status, access, other relationships that are natural among the wealthy, etc.) . It does take time to find the alternate sources that are seeking to provide accurate, non-partisan truth but it's there on the Internet and available to all.  Which might be one reason why governments around the world would like to see less internet and that includes the US.

According to this Wikipedia page:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_States, the powers-that-be, have and are making efforts to begin to control the Internet but thanks to your First Amendment and vocal public opposition, have so far not been able to.  So while you're pointing at Putin, know that the American administration has been guilty of the same things that you are accusing him of.

'We' elect these people but our responsibility shouldn't end there after the votes are counted.  Our children's futures are on the line and so we need to keep those governments accountable and at the very least, let them know that you are watching and you know EXACTLY (as much as is publicly possible)what they are doing with your kids lives, your grandchildren's lives!  I feel that strongly about it.  We have such an awe of our governments, when in fact, they should be respecting us.  We blessed them with the opportunity to guide our assorted countries.  It's a privilege which we've granted them.  And out of that, those cretans are getting rich and starting wars and playing at power struggles and 'whose is bigger' sort of nonsense! 

 We're thinking about this all backward.  We act like we should be grateful ....and ask no questions!  To that I say foolishness.  I am grateful for some of what my government does, but some of it is not beneficial and when it bothers me enough, I let my elected representative know.  We should always ask questions and find both sides because there is always another side.  And somewhere in the middle is the truth or we can let them have at it, at our expense. 

 I'm not meaning to offend, not at all and I'm sorry if I have.  But I feel that strongly that the peace and safety of the world is at risk and we the people (to borrow a phrase) are the only brakes.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 22, 2014)

Well I don't know everything about politics or the middle east, but I don't care for any politicians I've seen in any country, and will not praise any of them.  But, I'd much rather be living here in the country of my birth with President Obama, than in Russia under Putin, that's for sure!  I'm not going to trash the President either, because it seems like you have to be supplied with hip waders to take that job anymore, in order to trudge through all the crap left by those in power before you.

In Russia, the media and now the internet, is heavily censored and controlled by the government, much more than anything we've seen here, I'm sure.  We have slowly been losing some of our freedoms, and I for one, don't appreciate the NSA turning it's focus on American citizens, that is not what that organization was initially intended to do.  Having nothing to hide is not an argument to defend it, IMO.  The worse thing IMO that the President wants to do away with our freedom to bear arms, if that happens we will be just like Canada or other countries in that respect.  It's what I expect from a Democratic/Liberal leader though, so I'm not surprised, and I certainly won't hate him for it.  

It's true that we are only told on our main stream media news, what 'they' want us to know about, and depending on which channel you watch, there is an obvious bias spin.  I've learned a lot of things that have gone on behind the scenes in politics that are completely unacceptable for America.

Luckily we can still listen to radio shows which address these issues sometimes, like coast to coast am http://www.coasttocoastam.com/. It appears to be a kooky show which just talks about the supernatural, but they have discussed many political and health-related issues in the past that were real eye-openers.  People who just go by what they see on the local/world news on TV, do not know both sides of the story and are not given the whole truth on anything.

Here's a few older videos regarding our involvement with the middle east, and control/censorship of our media.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm not offended at all... You say YOU are informed... and I'm not?   Anyone can write anything.. and if someone reads it.. and it goes along with their preconceived ideas..  they believe it.   So.. while I'm sure you believe you have uncovered the "real" truth.. who's to say?   This is how FOX news snows people....


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## Debby (Sep 22, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I'm not offended at all... You say YOU are informed... and I'm not?   Anyone can write anything.. and if someone reads it.. and it goes along with their preconceived ideas..  they believe it.   So.. while I'm sure you believe you have uncovered the "real" truth.. who's to say?   This is how FOX news snows people....



The links that I use have credibility.  Economists, educators, researchers, political analysts, critics of journalism, Human rights organizations.....I always check to see who they are and as much as possible 'who signs their pay checks'.  I look for freedom from bias, past work credibility, etc. 

I've seen examples with my own eyes, of  the bias and lack of real journalistic integrity in the mainstream media and those examples were either 'beneficial' to a corporation or to governments.  And I think it's unlikely that you'll get the full story, with the hard questions ever being asked.  I quit paying much attention to them as a result.  

But that doesn't mean there aren't real journalists still out there and people who care very much about how safe the world really is.  And they're watching and keeping track of the deals, and secret meetings and connections that are going on in the background that the rest of us don't notice or hear about or pay attention to.  And they're speaking out via the Internet.  

Yes QuickSilver, I am informed on a few issues.  Where I'm not informed, I seldom venture an opinion, maybe ask a question sometimes.....but on the things that I've said here, I would say I'm informed.  I know, that sounds so snotty, but I can't help that because I have spent the time reading about all this stuff.


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## Debby (Sep 22, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> Well I don't know everything about politics or the middle east, but I don't care for any politicians I've seen in any country, and will not praise any of them.  But, I'd much rather be living here .......]




Hi SeaBreeze, 

Someone else brought up Putin trying to control the internet earlier today and I found a Wikipedia link that talks about the American governments efforts to do the same thing.  So maybe your Internet access isn’t as safe as you think.  Here in Canada, we’ve already had a ‘tussle’ over that and so far it’s pretty much open but I’d not be surprised if it comes up again at some point.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_States


As for your guns and Canada, well we have guns here.  But we have to go through and pass a course and be members of local gun clubs in order to own hand guns and we have to go through a back ground check with the RCMP contacting three or four references prior to approval.  It’s not so rigorous I don’t think, if you are buying rifles and stuff….so someone inform me if you do know okay?


I’m looking forward to listening to your linked videos and I think I’ve already seen the General Clark video but I’ll check it out.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 22, 2014)

I know about the internet Debby, as I said we're slowly losing some of our freedoms, but I don't think it will ever get as bad as Russia, China, etc.  At least I hope not!   One good thing about being old, if the $hit does hit the fan, I'll be long gone by then.   Here, so far, we just have to go through background checks to purchase a firearm.  For a concealed carry permit, you must attend classes, etc.


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## Debby (Sep 22, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I know about the internet Debby, as I said we're slowly losing some of our freedoms, but I don't think it will ever get as bad as Russia, China, etc.  At least I hope not!   One good thing about being old, if the $hit does hit the fan, I'll be long gone by then.   Here, so far, we just have to go through background checks to purchase a firearm.  For a concealed carry permit, you must attend classes, etc.




I've had the same thought about not hanging around long enough to see things get really bad (if they don't change drastically that is!)  I figure that I've got at least 26 more years and how much can go wrong in 26 years right?  Uh oh, silly question that last one.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 22, 2014)

:fingerscrossed:


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 23, 2014)

Speaking about the Coast show, they had an interesting one on last night, another topic you won't hear on the news.  Was hard to stay awake for it all though.



> *The Money Mafia*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Paul Hellyer was 91 years old, and appeared to be very credible...http://www.paulhellyerweb.com/


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## QuickSilver (Sep 23, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I know about the internet Debby, as I said we're slowly losing some of our freedoms, but I don't think it will ever get as bad as Russia, China, etc. At least I hope not!  One good thing about being old, if the $hit does hit the fan, I'll be long gone by then.  Here, so far, we just have to go through background checks to purchase a firearm. For a concealed carry permit, you must attend classes, etc.



Not even... you can still buy firearms on the internet AND at gun shows with NO background check.  It's only done at dealers.   Ahh.. concealed and carry..  I have to imagine if some of the folks I know were "packing"   Oh. good grief..  whatever could go wrong?


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 23, 2014)

The laws vary by state.  My husband purchased a rifle at a gun show, and they did a background check.  I believe it's the same with internet sales now.  Any responsible citizen who is comfortable with guns and knowledgeable about their safe use, etc. should be allowed to protect themselves (or you) with a concealed carry firearm.  I know if I'm in a public place and some mentally ill person on prescription medications comes in to kill some people, I'd be more than happy and thankful for a concealed carry citizen to stop the insanity before any innocent folks lose their life.


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## Debby (Sep 23, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> Speaking about the Coast show, they had an interesting one on last night, another topic you won't hear on the news.  Was hard to stay awake for it all though.
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Hellyer was 91 years old, and appeared to be very credible...http://www.paulhellyerweb.com/




What Mr. Hellyer was saying is actually on lots of sites on the internet.  Unfortunately, the majority of the public dismiss that kind of info as conspiracy theories.  But when you start paying attention to the various points and people and discussions and agreements, you start to see the connections that could very well bring this kind of thing to fruition.  Thanks for the link.  Sounds like one that I'd be interested in.


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## Debby (Sep 23, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> The laws vary by state.  My husband recently purchased a rifle at a gun show, and they did a background check.  I believe it's the same with internet sales now.  Any responsible citizen who is comfortable with guns and knowledgeable about their safe use, etc. should be allowed to protect themselves (or you) with a concealed carry firearm.  I know if I'm in a public place and some mentally ill person on prescription medications comes in to kill some people, I'd be more than happy and thankful for a concealed carry citizen to stop the insanity before any innocent folks lose their life.




Problem is that someone can legitimately get a gun as you describe and then succumb to some form of mental illness and voila, he's walking around, out of his mind and carrying a concealed weapon.  And nobody knows until all of a sudden it's too late.  That scenario could happen too couldn't it?

I'm curious as to how long the background check was and what's involved?  Could you elaborate?  I know in Canada, a background check can take a few weeks from the time you make application because you have to provide references who will attest to the future gun owner being a good guy, etc.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 23, 2014)

Anything _could_ happen, somebody who buys a truck can succumb to some sort of mental illness, go out of his mind, and mow over twenty kids playing in a neighborhood park.  This is basically the form filled out https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf, then the dealer does the criminal background check, the results are quick, same day.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 19, 2014)

Debby said:


> I know that was in part directed at me, but I'm not glorifying anyone.  What I am doing is pointing out that the American/Canadian/British media is telling you only what those governments want you to hear and that Putin isn't the monster they would have you think he is.  Reading the other side of the story is critical to get an accurate understanding of any story and unless you read the article by Cornell University professor Sharon Tennison, then you are getting only what the White House wants you to hear.



Heard a little of this guest on the coast to coast radio show last night, very interesting...http://jordanrussiacenter.org/news/...misrepresent-sochi-putin-ukraine/#.VJRfO14AJA


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## Denise1952 (Dec 19, 2014)

I think taking a look at the progression of things is interesting.  Sometimes I hear "it's not that bad" and I always think "yet".  Let's see, how many think our country is morphing into a Xanadu?  But you're right, it's not that bad, yet.


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## Debby (Dec 19, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> Heard a little of this guest on the coast to coast radio show last night, very interesting...http://jordanrussiacenter.org/news/...misrepresent-sochi-putin-ukraine/#.VJRfO14AJA




 Maybe because it mirrors much of my own observations about how media reports anything these day, I found your link to be extremely interesting.  Among other things, that author points out the failure of MSM to report all the facts, failure to be objective, failure to be honest, guilty of 'suggestive' rhetoric, inflammatory, partisan, inclined to omit facts, etc.  And MSM is where the majority of the public get their 'news'.   

By the way, the article you linked was by the following gentleman:  _Stephen F. Cohen is professor emeritus of Russian studies at New York University and professor emeritus of politics at Princeton University. His books include Soviet Fates and Lost Alternatives: From Stalinism to the New Cold War.


(__So there you go QS, in case you look, a professor at an American University.....the sort of proof that is acceptable in a discussion of politics).


_Also, as the OP was about Putins public popularity, today it still stands at about 80%.


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## AZ Jim (Dec 19, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Call me crazy... but I would rather have it CIA monitoring my phone than not knowing about planned Terrorist attacks.  I have no problem with the data collection.  If they can get info to prevent another 9/11...  great..  I'm not concerned if they know when my mamo appointment is or if the groomer can fit my dog in for a haircut.    I suggest to everyone who finds Putin so enthralling.... go live there for a while..   Then tell us how horrible the loss of liberty in this country is.



I agree.  People get the wrong idea anyways about the "phone monitoring".  They do not monitor the actual conversation, they note the phone numbers and amount of traffic in an effort to detect contacts with terrorist suspects.  If evidence supports it, they do monitor conversations.  I am 100% in support of the effort to keep us safe.


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## Denise1952 (Dec 19, 2014)

I agree with you Jim, the thing that comes to mind though is some of the conversations I've seen on this forum even.  I really think there will come a time when people will have to share "certain" opinions in secrecy if they want to share them. I know it's far-fetched but that's just the way I am sometimes.  How many times have I heard someone say, "I'm gonna kill her" or "I feel like going down and blowing up that frickin bank".  A person can say, again, oh it's not that bad, or it'll never come to that, I mean we get hauled in for saying something like that if that person dies or the bank is blown up.

But I agree with protecting the citizens of the US.  It just seems like the worse things get, the less freedom we have.  I guess that makes sense though doesn't it.


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## Debby (Dec 19, 2014)

I'm in complete agreement that one of our governments responsibilities is to protect its citizens.  Where I take issue is when a government of a country that is proud of its humanitarianism sinks to the same level as those who do harm wherever or participates in the take down of governments of other countries and particularly if those governments are chosen by their populace or even participate in the oppression of any society by another government be it by arms, funding or training.

If I become the same evil as that which I decry, what am I except evil?


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## drifter (Dec 19, 2014)

It's easy for Americans to underestimate our opponents. We have always under-estimated Asians in warfare. Putin is a suvivor. That's harder to do in Russia than in the US. When the Berlin Wall fell he was a major in the Russian KGB, stationed in East Germany. He is fluent in German. He is now single but don't let his pulling off his shirt and displaying his martial arts fool you, ladies. He knows how to use his  grey matter. He will survive our multiple embargos as Castro did and he will prevail. As a man and a human being I'm pulling for him. With the biggest bully on the planet nipping at his heels, I hope he gets away and survives again. As Will Rogers once said, "I never saw a man I didn't like or couldn't learn from. Cheers.


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## Denise1952 (Dec 19, 2014)

Debby said:


> I'm in complete agreement that one of our governments responsibilities is to protect its citizens.  Where I take issue is when a government of a country that is proud of its humanitarianism sinks to the same level as those who do harm wherever or participates in the take down of governments of other countries and particularly if those governments are chosen by their populace or even participate in the oppression of any society by another government be it by arms, funding or training.
> 
> If I become the same evil as that which I decry, what am I except evil?



Boy that got me thinking Debby, I mean it's such a hard one for me.  I remember when I was struggling to follow the church/christianity, I used to truly want to be like Jesus.  At the same time I was so torn, like when 9/11 happened, all I wanted to do was kick their ass.  I think of a fire, like in a building, the fireman fight the fire with water or I guess some other things that smother it.  But in the woods, when they are fighting a forest fire, they sometimes use fire to stop the progression.  Someone with way more knowledge of that could tell it better of course, how it works.  So when we are dealing with evil, or bad guys I guess we have at least two choices, turn the other cheek, or use their own medicine on them.  What a world.


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## AZ Jim (Dec 19, 2014)

Debby said:


> I'm in complete agreement that one of our governments responsibilities is to protect its citizens.  Where I take issue is when a government of a country that is proud of its humanitarianism sinks to the same level as those who do harm wherever or participates in the take down of governments of other countries and particularly if those governments are chosen by their populace or even participate in the oppression of any society by another government be it by arms, funding or training.
> 
> If I become the same evil as that which I decry, what am I except evil?



No offense Debby but as an old man and an American I will say only this "when we find ourselves in a world like we do today, you often have to fight fire with fire."  We are far from perfect, but we are damn sure trying.


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