# 6 Year Old Killed In Road Rage Incident



## win231 (May 21, 2021)

The child's mother "Gestured" at another driver after she was cut off.  Probably gave him the middle finger.  (very bad idea)
https://www.yahoo.com/news/child-shot-during-apparent-road-172038301.html


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## Aunt Marg (May 21, 2021)

Another "_good guy_" with a gun I gather.

Three cheers for the second amendment.


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## Della (May 22, 2021)

This is so sad.   That poor mother will always blame herself.  I'm not subject to road rage myself, If someone wants to cut me off I don't care a bit, unlike my husband, I don't always think I'm going to a fire and every second counts, but I know lots of people who do get easily angered on the road and I think we need to keep that in mind before we start -- or continue --incidents.  

We were stepping out of Walmart into the striped area yesterday and a woman flew by almost hitting my husband, looking down at her phone. with pedestrians everywhere.  What is wrong with people?


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## hollydolly (May 22, 2021)

I just read this in the news... How absolutely devastating!! In this day and age of road rage, why  that mother thought it would be ok to flip the bird at anyone while having a child in the car is beyond me,  and rightly she should be blaming herself for the rest of her days! 

the shooter was in the wrong but the mother was the catalyst!!


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## Aunt Marg (May 22, 2021)

Della said:


> This is so sad.   That poor mother will always blame herself.  I'm not subject to road rage myself, If someone wants to cut me off I don't care a bit, unlike my husband, I don't always think I'm going to a fire and every second counts, but I know lots of people who do get easily angered on the road and I think we need to keep that in mind before we start -- or continue --incidents.
> 
> We were stepping out of Walmart into the striped area yesterday and a woman flew by almost hitting my husband, looking down at her phone. with pedestrians everywhere.  What is wrong with people?


Drivers who are caught playing on their cellphones should receive a stiff fine and lose their license for life.


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## old medic (May 22, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Another "_good guy_" with a gun I gather.
> 
> Three cheers for the second amendment.


TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR.....


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## Aunt Marg (May 22, 2021)

old medic said:


> TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR.....


Because?

You don't like to hear the truth?


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## Pepper (May 22, 2021)

old medic said:


> TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR.....


C'mon.  Let's not censor each other.  That job's already taken.


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## Aunt Marg (May 22, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I just read this in the news... How absolutely devastating!! In this day and age of road rage, why  that mother thought it would be ok to flip the bird at anyone while having a child in the car is beyond me,  and rightly she should be blaming herself for the rest of her days!
> 
> the shooter was in the wrong but the mother was the catalyst!!


No, don't you dare throw the mother under the wheels of the bus.

If those packing guns in the USofA are that _immature_ and _void of brain cells_ where they look to reach for their guns to settle petty scores, then they're the catalyst.


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## Angelina (May 22, 2021)

Stop the world I want to get off.


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## Nathan (May 22, 2021)

win231 said:


> The child's mother "Gestured" at another driver after she was cut off.  Probably gave him the middle finger.  (very bad idea)
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/child-shot-during-apparent-road-172038301.html


It's just a very bad idea, no matter how much the other driver _deserves_ the middle finger.  

Some people think that they can _"teach a lesson"_ to another person in public, it just doesn't work that way.


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## win231 (May 22, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I just read this in the news... How absolutely devastating!! In this day and age of road rage, why  that mother thought it would be ok to flip the bird at anyone while having a child in the car is beyond me,  and rightly she should be blaming herself for the rest of her days!
> 
> the shooter was in the wrong but the mother was the catalyst!!


Exactly the point that's often missed by non thinkers.
When my parents became too old to drive, I drove them everywhere, but my mother would yell at every driver she thought did something wrong & also would blow the horn.  I told her, _"The next time you yell at another driver or touch the horn while I'm driving, you'll have to hire your own chauffeur.  I'm not getting shot for your stupidity."_  She never did it again.


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## win231 (May 22, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> No, don't you dare throw the mother under the wheels of the bus.
> 
> If those packing guns in the USofA are that _immature_ and _void of brain cells_ where they look to reach for their guns to settle petty scores, then they're the catalyst.


Intelligent people who are mature and have functioning brain cells know that there ARE immature people void of brain cells & know how stupid it is to antagonize such people.


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## Angelina (May 22, 2021)

Two people out of control with tragic results. Yes it's reported elsewhere that she flipped them off.


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## Aunt Marg (May 22, 2021)

win231 said:


> Intelligent people who are mature and have functioning brain cells know that there ARE immature people void of brain cells & know how stupid it is to antagonize such people.


I don't buy into your babble.

But hey, if you want to go through life using yourself as a welcome mat for everyone to kick and stub the soil off their footwear on, that's strictly up to you.


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## win231 (May 22, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I don't buy into your babble.
> 
> But hey, if you want to go through life using yourself as a welcome mat for everyone to kick and stub the soil off their footwear on, that's strictly up to you.


That's OK.  Feel free to flip off anyone you choose.  We'll miss you.


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## Angelina (May 22, 2021)

Win231 just sounds like common sense to me. 
"Don't flip off strangers."


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## Aunt Marg (May 22, 2021)

win231 said:


> That's OK.  Feel free to flip off anyone you choose.  We'll miss you.


Altercations and gestures are common among drivers, with no grave consequences.

That's the joy of calling Canada my home, our governing parties are intelligent enough to recognize how unintelligent it is to allow it's people to pack guns around.


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## Angelina (May 22, 2021)

I imagine they have cameras on that freeway so hopefully there will be an arrest soon.


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## Remy (May 22, 2021)

@hollydolly All the "good news" from the U.S. gets reported all over the world it seems.   

I would never, ever honk or 'gesture' to someone on the road. If the driver is driving like a jerk, they probably are a jerk and no way would I entice someone like that.


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## Aunt Marg (May 22, 2021)

Remy said:


> @hollydolly All the "good news" from the U.S. gets reported all over the world it seems.
> 
> *I would never, ever honk or 'gesture' to someone on the road.* If the driver is driving like a jerk, they probably are a jerk and no way would I entice someone like that.


But where does it end, Remy?

Because you live in the USofA, you just allow everyone to walk on you?

Is that what the gun-culture in the USofA has created? Everyone living in fear? Afraid to say anything or stand up to anyone?


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## Oris Borloff (May 22, 2021)

I'd just like to point out just because someone is driving a car, doesn't mean they have a legal license to do so.  This also applies to having a firearm, equally likely to not be legally in their possession.


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## win231 (May 22, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Altercations and gestures are common among drivers, with no grave consequences.
> 
> That's the joy of calling Canada my home, our governing parties are intelligent enough to recognize how unintelligent it is to allow it's people to pack guns around.


Yes, there is no gun violence in Canada:    
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/17/794510796/why-gun-violence-is-surging-in-toronto


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## win231 (May 22, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> But where does it end, Remy?
> 
> Because you live in the USofA, you just allow everyone to walk on you?
> 
> Is that what the gun-culture in the USofA has created? Everyone living in fear? Afraid to say anything or stand up to anyone?


Intelligent people know how to stand up to someone without resorting to infantile vulgarity.


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## Aunt Marg (May 22, 2021)

win231 said:


> Yes, there is no gun violence in Canada:
> https://www.npr.org/2020/01/17/794510796/why-gun-violence-is-surging-in-toronto


I had a feeling you'd come along and post something along the lines of what you did.

Yes, of course, violence, including gun violence has existed, and will always exist no matter what country or form of control governing parties look to implement, and it's true, in metro centres in Canada... Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton, crime rates have soared, gun violence included, but thanks to our governing parties, gun crimes aren't anywhere near as prevalent here in our country as they are in the USofA, and most shootings you hear of in our country are gang related (targeted hits), unlike in your country where reaching for ones gun is how people solve their daily problems no matter how trivial.








___________________________________________________________________________________________________


"*"Accounting for the population difference between the two countries, the handgun homicide rate is about six times higher south of the border"*

Extract taken from this article... 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/2...eau-nra-nova-scotia-assault-weapons-ban-ar15/


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## Angelina (May 22, 2021)

Any rational person should understand why flipping a stranger off isn't a good idea. Key word "rational."

What sort of behavior was this lady modeling for her son? Because someone rudely and aggressively cut her off in traffic, she flips them off? No, bad example for her son.  Better to remain calm and in control of yourself; you surely can't control anybody else. Could've been a good teaching opportunity for her to explain to her son how to deal with rude people and how important it is to stay in control.


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## hollydolly (May 22, 2021)

Remy said:


> @hollydolly All the "good news" from the U.S. gets reported all over the world it seems.
> 
> *I would never, ever honk or 'gesture' to someone on the road. If the driver is driving like a jerk, they probably are a jerk and no way would I entice someone like that.*


Exactly right @Remy,  you summed it up precisely..


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## Remy (May 22, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> But where does it end, Remy?
> 
> Because you live in the USofA, you just allow everyone to walk on you?
> 
> Is that what the gun-culture in the USofA has created? Everyone living in fear? Afraid to say anything or stand up to anyone?


I kind of do Aunt Marg. I'm no confrontational and in my upbringing I just took it all anyway.

I've also found the few times I do try to stick up for myself, people gaslight you, deny or retaliate in some way. I'd rather stay safe and get out of the situation. Even at work, I've essentially given up.

If someone cuts me off driving, I'm more glad I didn't get in an accident. I would honk if someone was about to back into me or something but not on a road with a near miss or something. If they are driving aggressively, I'm cautious of that person.


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## OneEyedDiva (May 22, 2021)

This is at least the 4th child I read about who was the victim of some....I can't use the term here...with a gun and no brains at all. I hope they find him or her and that person is put *under* the jail for the rest of his/her life! I feel sorry for this child's family. They are *so* cute at that age and there will always be a void because of this senseless killing.


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## fmdog44 (May 22, 2021)

The "gesture". What was it? Did she give them the finger? We live in a gun saturated shoot first and ask questions later society. You want to flash the finger? Go ahead but be prepared for what will happen. Adaptation is what animals do to different according to Darwin. It needs to apply to humans as well.


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## Gardenlover (May 22, 2021)

Sadly, it comes down to pride. Instead of only thinking about ourselves we should give each other a bit of grace.  

What the world needs now is love, sweet love. Let it begin with me.


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## John cycling (May 22, 2021)

Yahoo article said:
			
		

> The mother of the child said they were on the way to school in the carpool lane.
> When she tried to switch lanes to exit, the white sedan with a man and woman inside cut her off, Valdivia said.



However:



			
				Yahoo article said:
			
		

> CHP Officer Florentino Olivera said the driver of the white sedan shot into the back of the mother's Chevy Cruze sedan.
> The child was hit from behind when a round passed through the trunk of the vehicle, authorities said.



The white car was behind the mother's car.
She apparently made the sign "and" cut them off, not the other way around.

Very sad for the 6 year old; he's lost his whole life.
I'm surprised there are so many shootings on the freeways.  Scary stuff.


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## Pecos (May 22, 2021)

Senseless incidents like this just rip my guts out!


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## Aunt Marg (May 22, 2021)

John cycling said:


> However:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You reside in the hot spot, John, so take extra care when driving.


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## ohioboy (May 22, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Another "_good guy_" with a gun I gather.
> 
> Three cheers for the second amendment.



Gun violence epedemia should have been addressed _decades_ ago, but since the U.S. Supreme Court incorporated the Second to apply to the states in 2010, goodbye yellow brick road. TOO late now. I'm not necessarily against the 2nd, but within 20 years, you can bet the national annual homicide rate will triple. Congress was so scared of the National Rifle Association it was pathetic.


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## WhatInThe (May 22, 2021)

Almost sounds like there was a mini duel just prior for the lane with attempts to cut in including being denied and/or overly aggressive. 

Wasn't there a passenger in the killer's car. Maybe the passenger decided to show their displeasure.


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## ohioboy (May 22, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> Almost sounds like there was a mini duel just prior for the lane with attempts to cut in including being denied and/or overly aggressive.
> 
> Wasn't there a passenger in the killer's car. Maybe the passenger decided to show their displeasure.


Lucky the bullet did not hit/rupture the gas tank, an explosion like that could cause serious damage or death, on and off the freeway.


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## Aunt Marg (May 22, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Gun violence epedemia should have been addressed _decades_ ago, but since the U.S. Supreme Court incorporated the Second to apply to the states in 2010, goodbye yellow brick road. TOO late now. I'm not necessarily against the 2nd, but within 20 years, you can bet the national annual homicide rate will triple. Congress was so scared of the National Rifle Association it was pathetic.


I figured as much, OhioBoy, and I believe every single word you say.


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## ohioboy (May 22, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I figured as much, OhioBoy, and I believe every single word you say.


If the 2nd were to remain as is, then Congress/states need to appropriate more money for prevention/police etc., and the money is just not there, anywhere. The U.S. is 30 trillion in debt now, the country is in bad shape, period.


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## win231 (May 23, 2021)

Yesterday, I witnessed another similar incident that could have also ended tragically.
My house is on a narrow street with no sidewalks & barely enough room for two lanes of traffic.  The speed limit is 15 but many people go 40-50.  Not a safe place for bicycles or pedestrians.
I was waiting to pull out of my driveway.  I waved to a father & 3 young kids on bicycles as they went by.  A big SUV came up behind them, speeding.  The driver was trying to pass the bicycles, but he couldn't because cars were driving by in the oncoming lane.
When he did pass, he deliberately drove inches from the bicycles & started yelling at the father, who yelled back.  The kids were terrified, their bicycles were wobbling & they could have easily fallen & been run over.
Obviously, the driver was at fault.  BUT the father is really stupid.  Any idiot could see that it was not a safe place for his kids, especially when there are bike paths 3 miles away that have no other vehicles on them.


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## Aunt Marg (May 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> Yesterday, I witnessed another similar incident that could have also ended tragically.
> My house is on a narrow street with no sidewalks & barely enough room for two lanes of traffic.  The speed limit is 15 but many people go 40-50.  Not a safe place for bicycles or pedestrians.
> I was waiting to pull out of my driveway.  I waved to a father & 3 young kids on bicycles as they went by.  A big SUV came up behind them, speeding.  The driver was trying to pass the bicycles, but he couldn't because cars were driving by in the oncoming lane.
> When he did pass, he deliberately drove inches from the bicycles & started yelling at the father, who yelled back.  The kids were terrified, their bicycles were wobbling & they could have easily fallen & been run over.
> Obviously, the driver was at fault.  *BUT the father is really stupid.*  Any idiot could see that it was not a safe place for his kids, especially when there are bike paths 3 miles away that have no other vehicles on them.


Goodness gracious, Win, you seem so full of such bitterness as of late.

Sheesh... if you lived here I'd take you out to McDonalds and buy you a Happy Meal. I'd even tie on your little plastic McDonalds bib for you before you delved in. 

Unless there are signs up along the lane that you speak of that prohibit bicyclists from occupying, drivers of both vehicles and bicycles are responsible for themselves as well as one another.

Sure, maybe the lane (area) chosen wasn't ideal, but then again, maybe the father didn't want to walk bicycles to the relegated bike paths, or, or, or. Lots of possible scenarios attached to, but all-in-all, it's up to drivers to adhere to posted speeds.

Once again I present the question, because everyone packs heat in the USofA, does that mean everyone should bow to and accept blatant wrongdoings of others?

Three cheers to the father for yelling at the driver of the vehicle.

Where is the rush? Where is everyone going today where they need to drive breakneck speed and put other people's lives at risk?


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## WhatInThe (May 23, 2021)

As quick and as often these things happen my guess it both the driver/passenger and the woman have done this before. The mom probably gestured more than once as has a person in the suspects car brandished a weapon on someone.


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## win231 (May 23, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Goodness gracious, Win, you seem so full of such bitterness as of late.
> 
> Sheesh... if you lived here I'd take you out to McDonalds and buy you a Happy Meal. I'd even tie on your little plastic McDonalds bib for you before you delved in.
> 
> ...


_"Everyone packs heat in the USA?"  _You must be living on a different planet.
No, there are no signs anywhere that prohibit bicyclists.  Where bicyclists choose to ride is up to their common sense - which obviously isn't so common.
People who drive that way are not usually in a hurry; they're just tense & on edge due to the financial problems caused by the pandemic & they take their frustrations out on others - much like you do.


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## Aunt Marg (May 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> _"Everyone packs heat in the USA?"  _You must be living on a different planet.
> No, there are no signs anywhere that prohibit bicyclists.  Where bicyclists choose to ride is up to their common sense - which obviously isn't so common.
> People who drive that way are not usually in a hurry; *they're just tense & on edge due to the financial problems caused by the pandemic* & they take their frustrations out on others - much like you do.


Blaming everything on the pandemic is nothing more than an adopted societal crutch.

Just one more avenue for people to make up excuses for themselves as well as others relative to their shortfalls.


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## WhatInThe (May 23, 2021)

Apparently the victim was shot from behind with the bullet entering on the driver side rear/trunk killing the passenger. That's a tough shot for the driver driving at high speed with one hand. Also would've taken a lot of maccinations to get the gun which was probably already loaded/chambered. It's starting to look like the passenger should be THE suspect and not a witness.


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## Aunt Marg (May 23, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> Apparently the victim was shot from behind with the bullet entering on the driver side rear/trunk killing the passenger. That's a tough shot for the driver driving at high speed with one hand. Also would've taken a lot of maccinations to get the gun which was probably already loaded/chambered. It's starting to look the passenger should be a suspect and not a witness.


My thinking, too.


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## Sunny (May 23, 2021)

Aunt Marg, you seem to have an awful lot of trouble understanding that the country I live in is called the USA.  Not the USofA.  You are the only person I have ever heard refer it to it that way. Do you think that's funny, or insulting, or what?  Or do you just have trouble remembering names?
I've pointed this out before, but it doesn't seem to make any difference.  

I think the appropriate retaliation is to change the name of your country in a similar manner. So from now on, you live in the CANofADA. Hmmm, that opens up all sorts of possibilities for discussion and speculation!


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## Aunt Marg (May 23, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Aunt Marg, you seem to have an awful lot of trouble understanding that the country I live in is called the USA.  Not the USofA.  You are the only person I have ever heard refer it to it that way. Do you think that's funny, or insulting, or what?  Or do you just have trouble remembering names?
> I've pointed this out before, but it doesn't seem to make any difference.
> 
> I think the appropriate retaliation is to change the name of your country in a similar manner. So from now on, you live in the CANofADA. Hmmm, that opens up all sorts of possibilities for discussion and speculation!


USofA, seems to have become a real sore spot with you, Sunny.

Here is a topic of conversation where a members makes mention of... USofA, and the member lives in the States.
https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/i-am-stuck-in-1969.59986/page-3#post-1728989

Here is another where a member from the States seems to be in agreeance with your country being referred to as USofA.
https://www.seniorforums.com/thread...-no-longer-required.59332/page-2#post-1704451

*Taken from Wiki: The United States of America (U.S.A. or USA), commonly known as the United States (U.S. or US) or America, is a country primarily located in North America.

Do you see the word "commonly", Sunny? Commonly known as?

Well how about commonly known as, the United States of America (USofA)? Does that work for you, Sunny?

If you prefer, uncommonly known as the USofA, minus any funny, insult, or anything else added to it.*


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## oldman (May 23, 2021)

I have carried a weapon outside my home for years and never once had the temptation to pull my gun from its holster to shoot or to intimidate someone.

I accidentally cut a driver off a few weeks ago and when we got to the light we ended up beside one another. I rolled my window down and apologized. She looked over at me and smiled and nodded her head. I thought to myself “Hooray for humanity.”


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## win231 (May 23, 2021)

oldman said:


> I have carried a weapon outside my home for years and never once had the temptation to pull my gun from its holster to shoot or to intimidate someone.
> 
> I accidentally cut a driver off a few weeks ago and when we got to the light we ended up beside one another. I rolled my window down and apologized. She looked over at me and smiled and nodded her head. I thought to myself “Hooray for humanity.”


Gun haters are not intelligent enough to understand that the presence of a gun has nothing to do with a tendency for violence.  It's the person who has the gun that determines its use.
If that was not true, you could hand the Pope a gun & expect him to start shooting people.


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## Sunny (May 23, 2021)

Marg, I've lived here all my life, which believe me, is many, many years. I've never heard anyone refer to it that way except you.

In fact, most of us just refer to it as the U.S., or The States.  USA is sometimes used to give it a certain kind of emphasis, and it's often ironic, though not always. But US *of *A? That just sounds weird.


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## WhatInThe (May 23, 2021)

In this report it's say the passenger shot and killed the boy. Picture of bullet hole on drivers side trunk to left of the license plate. This makes more sense because to drive, pull, load and aim a gun at high speed doesn't seem probable. This is even more disturbing because the passenger decided for the driver how to react.

Also a reward has been offered for information on the killers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ad-road-rage-driver-shares-dying-moments.html

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...ear-olds-death-in-road-rage-shooting/2601894/


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## MarciKS (May 23, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> But where does it end, Remy?
> 
> Because you live in the USofA, you just allow everyone to walk on you?
> 
> Is that what the gun-culture in the USofA has created? Everyone living in fear? Afraid to say anything or stand up to anyone?


Around here if you don't watch what you say there's a huge chance you could p*ss off the wrong person and get shot. You would never last here.


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## MarciKS (May 23, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Marg, I've lived here all my life, which believe me, is many, many years. I've never heard anyone refer to it that way except you.
> 
> In fact, most of us just refer to it as the U.S., or The States.  USA is sometimes used to give it a certain kind of emphasis, and it's often ironic, though not always. But US *of *A? That just sounds weird.


I don't think she's making fun of it I think it's just the tone in which it's delivered but technically there's nothing wrong with it.


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## mrstime (May 23, 2021)

Della said:


> This is so sad.   That poor mother will always blame herself.  I'm not subject to road rage myself, If someone wants to cut me off I don't care a bit, unlike my husband, I don't always think I'm going to a fire and every second counts, but I know lots of people who do get easily angered on the road and I think we need to keep that in mind before we start -- or continue --incidents.
> 
> We were stepping out of Walmart into the striped area yesterday and a woman flew by almost hitting my husband, looking down at her phone. with pedestrians everywhere.  What is wrong with people?


It is against the law to drive and use a cell phone at the same time here in BC. Early on people would stop in some strange places to answer their phones, now they mostly pull over to the edge of the road. Of course there are people who still can't obey the law, and still cause accidents.


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## ohioboy (May 23, 2021)

mrstime said:


> It is against the law to drive and use a cell phone at the same time here in BC. Early on people would stop in some strange places to answer their phones, now they mostly pull over to the edge of the road. Of course there are people who still can't obey the law, and still cause accidents.



Some cities in Ohio have Ordinances titled Full time and Attention. All drivers must give their FTaA while driving, or such. It's sort of a catch all. Example: a woman is putting on makeup while driving. The driver is jigging back and forth to music while driving.


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## ohioboy (May 23, 2021)

Englewood, Ohio


432.38  WEAVING; FULL TIME AND ATTENTION.

   (a)   No person shall operate a motor vehicle or motorcycle upon any street or highway in a weaving or zigzag course unless such irregular course is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

   (b)   No person shall operate a motor vehicle or motorcycle without giving his or her full time and attention to the operation of such vehicle.


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## mrstime (May 23, 2021)

I should have addressed the original subject, however I am no longer shocked  by the gun violence in the US, as long as the NRA pays off the American politicians it will continue. I guess that smacks of politics and as such is a no-no, but really when will it end?


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## Ruthanne (May 23, 2021)

I hate these kind of stories.


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## Della (May 24, 2021)

win231 said:


> Gun haters are not intelligent enough to understand that the presence of a gun has nothing to do with a tendency for violence.


Wrong again.

Women who live with gun owners are in much more danger of domestic homicide than those who live with "gun haters."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/22/...w study has found,other kinds of gun homicide.


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## mrstime (May 24, 2021)

win231 said:


> Gun haters are not intelligent enough to understand that the presence of a gun has nothing to do with a tendency for violence.  It's the person who has the gun that determines its use.
> If that was not true, you could hand the Pope a gun & expect him to start shooting people.


There are very few "gun haters", we had guns for years , taught our kids gun safety and how to shoot at very young ages, but there are some real gun laws needed in the US. We no longer have a gun, don't need one as we are not going hunting ever again, too cotton picken old to be tromping through the woods!


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## Keesha (May 24, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Marg, I've lived here all my life, which believe me, is many, many years. I've never heard anyone refer to it that way except you.
> 
> In fact, most of us just refer to it as the U.S., or The States.  USA is sometimes used to give it a certain kind of emphasis, and it's often ironic, though not always. But US *of *A? That just sounds weird.


In case you’re confused.
It’s short for ‘United States of America.’
Canada was never called ‘Canada of America.’


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## Keesha (May 24, 2021)

In the past, I’ve been known to flip a bird or two.  It’s been a long time since I’ve done it but after reading about this along with everyone’s posts, I don’t think I’ll ever do that again. Why respond badly due to someone else’s bad behaviour.
It’s never to late to learn.


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## Butterfly (May 24, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> Around here if you don't watch what you say there's a huge chance you could p*ss off the wrong person and get shot. You would never last here.


Yeah, and  besides which there's just no earthly point in exchanging unpleasantries with others in traffic, anyway.  Doesn't get anybody anywhere.


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## Elsie (May 24, 2021)

In Western culture, "the finger" or the middle finger is an obscene hand gesture. The gesture communicates moderate to extreme contempt, and is roughly equivalent in meaning to "**** me", "**** you", "shove it up your ass/arse", "up yours" or "go **** yourself". It is performed by showing the back of a hand that has only the middle finger extended upwards, though in some locales, the thumb is extended. Extending the finger is considered a symbol of contempt in several cultures, especially in the Western world. Many cultures use similar gestures to display their disrespect, although others use it to express pointing without intentional disrespect. The gesture is usually used to express contempt but can also be used humorously or playfully.

Oh how intelligent, and classy a gesture, Not.  Which takes more strong self-esteem, to ignore the gesture when the target is you, or be short on self-esteem ....., "AIN'T nobody gonna get' away with doing that to me?!"  And get into a fight with the perpetrator?  I mean, afterall, who wants to be thought a coward?   Sticks and stones may break my bones, but finger gestures?


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## Pepper (May 24, 2021)

Keesha said:


> In case you’re confused.
> It’s short for ‘United States of America.’
> Canada was never called ‘Canada of America.’


"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States *of* America" etc.


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## Don M. (May 24, 2021)

In my 60+ years, and way over a million miles, of driving, I've lost track of the number of bad drivers I've had to dodge.  All a person can do is to assume that every other car/truck around them is a potential accident, pay attention and drive "defensively".  I've seen several road rage incidents, and it seldom ends well.  Rather than "participating" in any such activity, I just call them an idiot, and try to stay well out of their way.  I've seen people reading the newspaper, shaving, putting on makeup, and several other dumb things while driving, and it's amazing that such people get to their destination safely.

In this particular incident, I doubt the culprit will ever be found....unless they have a severe breakdown of their conscience...and that's not very likely.

In today's environment, the biggest risk, IMO, is driving near someone who is totally infatuated with their cell phone.


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## fmdog44 (May 24, 2021)

I carry in my truck and had a very slight contact from a car behind me a few years ago. I got out and looked and saw no damage and got back in my truck and went on to work. A few year before that one I was rear ended by a person on her phone when she struck me stopped at a light. Again, got out exchanged info and went on about our day. Damage was $1,000+/-. Her insurance paid all. The difference is in both cases all went on with their lives versus someone's life ending violently. So do you blame the guns or the fools?


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## WhatInThe (May 24, 2021)

What seems to be getting lost with this incident in particular is so far it seems the passenger not the other driver killed the child. The driver of the suspected vehicle did not fire the gun. Their passenger did. That's probably why it happened fairly quick.

I'll be honest I view driving as mortal combat because it's up to me to keep myself safe. That also means if I see a situation developing I slow down or pull over to the side if I have to.  And yes I cursed, stared and gave others lip service. Even got into a staredown.


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## Sunny (May 24, 2021)

Just to put this pointless discussion to rest (for me, anyway),  here's my final comment on it.

1. I am aware that the country is called the United States of America. It is never referred to as the US of A. It sounds like something Archie Bunker would say. I wonder if that's where it originated?

2. I looked up that abbreviation. It is not even included in any of the lists of abbreviations that I could find, although it is mentioned one time, as a "colloquial" expression.  But nowhere is the term listed as a serious abbreviation for the country's name, either inside or outside of the country.

3. More to the point, I have never read one positive thing about the U.S. from Marg. "The US *of *A" is always followed by a superior, gloating comment about how awful life must be for us poor people living in the lower 48, how we can never leave our homes without being armed to the teeth, everyone is "packing" all the time, and so on.  None of this is true anywhere in the country to my knowledge unless you happen to live in a crime-infested neighborhood (and she has been told this also by various people, but it doesn't stop the constant sniping), and the sarcastic abbreviation is part of the whole shtick.

Here's just one example of the anti-American nonsense, right here in this thread:

_Because you live in the USofA, you just allow everyone to walk on you?

Is that what the gun-culture in the USofA has created? Everyone living in fear? Afraid to say anything or stand up to anyone?_

Of course, I am also aware that we have a gun problem, and plenty of other serious problems, such as the political split that has almost turned us into two separate countries, the racism that seems to go on forever, some very nasty religious differences, our slowness in responding to Covid, and many others. I am not a flag-waving goody-goody. But in spite of its problems, I really do love this country. It has been very kind to my family, and I am so glad that my grandparents had the good sense to emigrate here when they did. And it's very annoying, to put it mildly, to keep seeing negative, and largely untrue, statements about the U.S. being made up out of whole cloth, or perhaps mindlessly repeated.

I doubt that Canada is a perfect Utopia. But I don't make up nasty nicknames (well, I did it that one time to prove a point, but I don't usually refer to Canada as CanofAda).  Why the childishness?  We are supposed to be a "friendly" discussion group, and as seniors, we ought to be showing some maturity.  How about some respect for the places where other people live?

By the way, Marg, you and I are on the same page about the Second Amendment. If you just cut out the sniping and the ridiculous descriptions of life in this country, we'd be allies.


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## win231 (May 24, 2021)

Della said:


> Wrong again.
> 
> Women who live with gun owners are in much more danger of domestic homicide than those who live with "gun haters."
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/22/us/gun-ownership-violence-statistics.html#:~:text=the main story-,Gun Ownership Rates Tied to Domestic Homicides,Not Other Killings, Study Finds&text=A new study has found,other kinds of gun homicide.





Aunt Marg said:


> Blaming everything on the pandemic is nothing more than an adopted societal crutch.
> 
> Just one more avenue for people to make up excuses for themselves as well as others relative to their shortfalls.


I tend to look at the end result.  The end result of this incident is that the brain-dead mother will think about the consequences of her _"Showing the other driver who is boss"_ for the rest of her life.


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## Aunt Marg (May 24, 2021)

Sunny said:


> 3. More to the point, I have never read one positive thing about the U.S. from Marg. "The US *of *A" is always followed by a superior, gloating comment about how awful life must be for us poor people living in the lower 48, how we can never leave our homes without being armed to the teeth, everyone is "packing" all the time, and so on.  None of this is true anywhere in the country to my knowledge unless you happen to live in a crime-infested neighborhood (and she has been told this also by various people, but it doesn't stop the constant sniping), and the sarcastic abbreviation is part of the whole shtick.


If you don't mind, Sunny, allow me to pull my "shtick" out for a moment and say, when it comes to gun violence in the United States of North America, you're right, I have not a single good thing to say about it, but over and above my outspokenness when it comes to gun crime, I have nothing against the United States of North America (as a whole).

Adding, when I speak of feeling sorry for those in the United States of North America who are caught up in the middle, as in those like yourself along with others who would love nothing more than to see restrictive measures brought down on gun freedoms in your country, my words are genuine.

As for your claim on my childishness related to me referring to your country as the USofA, have a read. You seem to be the exception. Shrug shoulders.

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/usa-united-states-of-america-us-united-states-america.60379/

Over the course of my lifetime I've learned that there's just no pleasing everybody, and I quit trying a long time ago.

In closing, I feel genuinely bad for you that you have allowed my use of USofA to bunch, pull, and twist your knickers into the ball that they are in.


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## Elsie (May 24, 2021)

I've recently had the disappointing experience of several female Canadians on another forum disparage several things about USA citizens.  I was shocked by what they said because I thought Canadians saw American citizens much like they.  Good, bad, both the same.  I once thought that Canada would be a place I'd enjoy visiting, but not now.  So, are Canadians and Americans friends, or what?


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## 911 (May 24, 2021)

People flip off another individual because it gives them a short term feeling of satisfaction. What it really does is to incite the situation, which can escalate it in a hurry, like in this situation. People’s reactions to this type of situation are different. Some can walk away and forget it while others do something stupid like this.

There aren’t any winners here. Just losers.


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## 911 (May 24, 2021)

Elsie said:


> I've recently had the disappointing experience of several female Canadians on another forum disparage several things about USA citizens.  I was shocked by what they said because I thought Canadians saw American citizens much like they.  Good, bad, both the same.  I once thought that Canada would be a place I'd enjoy visiting, but not now.  So, are Canadians and Americans friends, or what?


America is Canada’s biggest ally and vice versa because the Canadian government know that they enjoy the full protection of the American military. If any country would invade Canada, the U.S. would stand beside them.


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## Lara (May 24, 2021)

911 said:


> America is Canada’s biggest ally and vice versa because the Canadian government know that they enjoy the full protection of the American military. If any country would invade Canada, the U.S. would stand beside them.


But 911, Elsie is asking if Canadians are our friends. She's not asking ,"Are Canadians our friends because they enjoy full protection from out military".
True friends aren't friends for what they can use each other for. I too have notice what Elsie is talking about. In fact it's not just Canada. But I feel I do have sincere Canadian friends here in SF...except one, who just identified herself posting a laughing emoji. I'm not surprised. So it's a small percentage.


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## IrisSenior (May 24, 2021)

RE: the original poster - No, I would never 'flip-off' or show in any way to someone who cut me off and give them any reason to get angry at me. There are too many crazy people out there. There is a time and place to stand up for yourself and on the highway isn't one of them; (this is my opinion). I have never like guns, never will and will never justify for ANY reason to own or shoot one. (Again this is just my opinion).

As for the US of A - of course I have heard and of it and always thought it was just an acronym - whatever...


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## Sassycakes (May 24, 2021)

*From what I gathered from reading the article, there were 2 idiots and a young boy died of both their actions. the idiot that shot into the car is the biggest idiot of all.*


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## Tish (May 24, 2021)

How very sad.


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## Keesha (May 24, 2021)

Elsie said:


> I've recently had the disappointing experience of several female Canadians on another forum disparage several things about USA citizens.  I was shocked by what they said because I thought Canadians saw American citizens much like they.  Good, bad, both the same.  I once thought that Canada would be a place I'd enjoy visiting, but not now.  So, are Canadians and Americans friends, or what?


Of course we are friends. I’ve visit many of the states in the country. There are some big differences but it’s at a political level, not an acquaintance level.

I’m sorry you had a bad experience with ‘some’ Canadians but making a final judgment on us due to a small group of people isn’t fair to the rest of Canadians.
Most Canadians would open up the heart & home for anyone in the world who needed it which is what we did during the 911 incident.

Most of us aren’t accustomed to the gun laws or the attitudes towards guns whereas you are all used to it. It’s what you grew up with.
There are probably things about us that you aren’t accustomed to either.

As far as the abbreviations go?
Could the fact that you lived in the country make a difference? Perhaps you didn’t call it U.S. of A. because you all know it’s in ‘A’merica whereas the rest of the world wouldn’t just assume it. ( if you know what I mean ) In school we were taught to call your country ‘The United States of America ‘ so naturally to shorten it would be the U.S.of A.
When I was younger, everyone I knew used that abbreviation. It was considered disrespectful to use anything less than.

What you might not know is that when we learn about school shootings, tornados, hurricanes, landslides, forest fires, plane crashes or any other devastating news, we share your tears. Your sorrow is our sorrow.
In the things that matter most, we aren’t all that different.

note: if others feel differently, that’s out of my hands. I try my best.


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## PamfromTx (May 24, 2021)

I have not read this entire thread.  But, from what I read, I think we should all try to get along with one another.  

I saw where Old Medic has left; I hope he returns.  Everyone is entitled to be part of this forum.  I'm sure he enjoyed the forum and that is what saddens me.  

We may be from different countries, but we all bleed the same color of blood.  We are all human. 

And yes, we are entitled to have opinions; but, is it necessary to be so hateful?!


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## Keesha (May 24, 2021)

I had to backtrack to old medics last post. 
It looks like I missed a whole lot here. 
I’m sorry for missing so much. Now things are starting to make sense. This thread is sad on many levels.


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## ohioboy (May 24, 2021)

Pepper said:


> "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States *of* America" etc.


"I pledge allegiance to the flag of Amerigo Vespucci".


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## Keesha (May 24, 2021)

I just finished reading this entire thread to see if I said anything to offend anyone. These aren’t threads I feel comfortable posting in so I don’t usually offer an opinion . In fact I usually avoid these types of threads like the plaque since they often don’t turn out nice.

When I saw Sunnys post stating that she’s never heard of anyone calling the United States OF America …. U.S. of A , I decided to comment but wished I hadn’t.
I hadn’t followed every post so didn’t understand where the anger was coming from. It’s the only thing I posted about. 

From this moment on I won’t ever comment on anything that has to do with politics nor will I comment on things that don’t concern me. I’ll stick to posting pictures . It seems I got caught in the cross fire here  cause this isn’t a thread I invested any time in.  In fact I’m not involved in any serious threads.

Peace out


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## win231 (May 24, 2021)

Elsie said:


> I've recently had the disappointing experience of several female Canadians on another forum disparage several things about USA citizens.  I was shocked by what they said because I thought Canadians saw American citizens much like they.  Good, bad, both the same.  I once thought that Canada would be a place I'd enjoy visiting, but not now.  So, are Canadians and Americans friends, or what?


People like to say_ "Mine's better than yours."  _People who live in one country often talk about how much better things are where they live than somewhere else; it makes them feel superior & feeling superior seems to be something people crave.

Even people who came to the USA from another country often talk about how much better things were in their country (that they couldn't wait to run away from)  LOL!  They sure get angry when I ask them, "Well, what are you doing here?"


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## ohioboy (May 24, 2021)

win231 said:


> They sure get angry when I ask them, "Well, what are you doing here?"


Probably extradited!


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## fmdog44 (May 24, 2021)

Criminal justice instructor at Meridian Community College, Diann Sollie says more mass shootings and suicides will unfortunately happen.
“I don’t think it is unexpected to be seeing more of this.” Sollie said, “It’s unfortunate but I don’t think it’s necessarily unexpected from a physiological or theoretical position.”Sollie says according to research, rapid change within society like the coronavirus pandemic, only increases the chance for horrific events like mass shootings. “When we look at mass shootings, if you look at the research,” Sollie said. “There’s like four different main types. Some of them relate to depression-- like they kill themselves and family members. Then, you might see it related more to depression. Which might relate to loss of loved ones, loss of jobs or the change in the economy. Many of those things that we’ve seen.”Sollie says revenge also plays a part in mass shootings.Meridian police chief, Chris Read says he monitors national violence statistics.

_Copyright 2021 WTOK. All rights reserved._


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## Jules (May 24, 2021)

@win231  If you ever read in the future that they caught this murderer, will you please post it.


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## rgp (May 25, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> No, don't you dare throw the mother under the wheels of the bus.
> 
> If those packing guns in the USofA are that _immature_ and _void of brain cells_ where they look to reach for their guns to settle petty scores, then they're the catalyst.



Aunt Marg, a question.......Why can't you / don't you, just call it the US ? Or the USA ? ..... Why the snarky attitude that rings loud & clear.?


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## Lara (May 25, 2021)

Just to put this argument to rest...
Here's proof of the 1st time it was used and how it was used.
A very patriotic song from 1972....Album titled "U.S. of A."
This country song couldn't be more respectful of the USA


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## rgp (May 25, 2021)

Lara said:


> Just to put this petty argument to rest.
> "US of A" is just "slang" or short for United States of America.
> It has been used for a long time. Not often, but yes.
> Here's a very patriotic song from 1972....Album titled "US of A"
> This country song couldn't be more respectful of the USA



 You have your opinion, I have mine.


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## WhatInThe (May 25, 2021)

I can't believe with all the traffic cameras out there they don't have a car/license yet. And as the police requested if someone had the own car/dash cam on they might have caught something. Just issue a specific time frame so people could check their footage.

The family has offered a $50K reward to start. They said they reached fund raising goals for funeral 

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/fe...s-family-offers-reward-to-help-catch-shooter/


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## Sunny (May 25, 2021)

Unfortunately, most people don't just happen to have their cameras on and focused on a crime while it's happening. And in this case, the camera would have to be focused on the car of the shooter, not the victim. How likely is that?

Chauvin was caught and convicted because of the young girl who had the presence of mind to aim her phone in the right place and keep it aimed there for the entire time he was murdering Floyd, which must have been excruciating for her. But how often does that happen?

If only bullets had a kind of "dna" on them, instantly identifying whose gun they came from. Maybe some day.


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## Aunt Marg (May 25, 2021)

rgp said:


> Aunt Marg, a question.......Why can't you / don't you, just call it the US ? Or the USA ? ..... Why the snarky attitude that rings loud & clear.?


RGP. I started this thread to consult with fellow forum members that reside in the United States of North America, and not one replied with anything derogatory to say about me referring to the United States of North America as the USofA.

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/usa-united-states-of-america-us-united-states-america.60379/

Not a single member took exception to my use of USofA.

So please explain to me where you and Sunny, see my use of the term USofA as being "snarky".

Pull up an internet article to back-up your claim, would you, because I want to see it for myself where those like myself who refer to your country as the USofA are being "snarky".

*Extending the same offer to you Holly Dolly and Chet as well, seeing how you felt the need to add emoji likes to RGP's entry. Show me. Show me where my use of the term USofA is "snarky".

I'm already aware of Sunny's stance on it.*


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## Chet (May 25, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> *Extending the same offer to you Holly Dolly and Chet as well, seeing how you felt the need to add emoji likes to RGP's entry. Show me. Show me where my use of the term USofA is "snarky".*


It was not about the term USofA. It was about the sum total of all you wrote about our freedom to keep and bear arms; giving the impression of superiority. That was the impression.


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## win231 (May 25, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Unfortunately, most people don't just happen to have their cameras on and focused on a crime while it's happening. And in this case, the camera would have to be focused on the car of the shooter, not the victim. How likely is that?
> 
> Chauvin was caught and convicted because of the young girl who had the presence of mind to aim her phone in the right place and keep it aimed there for the entire time he was murdering Floyd, which must have been excruciating for her. But how often does that happen?
> 
> If only bullets had a kind of "dna" on them, instantly identifying whose gun they came from. Maybe some day.


Bullets do have a kind of "DNA" on them.  Criminals are often convicted when recovered bullets are compared with other bullets test fired from the same gun.  No two barrels make the exact same rifling & tool marks on the bullet - sort of like fingerprints.
The problem is, investigators have to get hold of the gun to test fire it & recover the bullet, then compare it under magnification to the recovered bullet.  At trial, the DA will show the jury an enlarged photo of the two bullets & it is very clear that they were fired from the same gun.  That usually happens after a suspect is arrested.
Also, if the spent shell casing is recovered, the firing pin hit is also examined for comparison.  And, if the gun is a semi auto pistol, the extractor & ejector marks are examined.  And the gun's chambers are also different & leave different evidence on the shell casing.  None are the same in every gun.
There was a murder case profiled on "Crime Story" where a police officer murdered his girlfriend.  Since he was familiar with investigative procedures, he replaced the barrel of his gun with another one & thought he would get away with it.  He didn't & was convicted with other evidence.
https://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/PDF/firearms-and-toolmarks-overview.pdf
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-can-a-bullet-be-trace/


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## fuzzybuddy (May 25, 2021)

I know the 2nd Amendment people don't like this, but this is what happens when you put lots of deadly *weapons* into a large number of people, It's inane to think they are all going to act rationally, and sanely. We're humans, for God's sake.


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## Pepper (May 25, 2021)

You were not being 'snarky' @Aunt Marg but I wouldn't have cared if you were.  So What?  Big Deal. Who Cares?  You're not required to be subservient to the usofa, though many of my fellow citizens think you should be.  Best friends shouldn't have to walk on eggshells.  Be yourself.


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## win231 (May 25, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I know the 2nd Amendment people don't like this, but this is what happens when you put lots of deadly *weapons* into a large number of people, It's inane to think they are all going to act rationally, and sanely. We're humans, for God's sake.


Yes, and the 2nd Amendment people know there are deadly weapons in the hands of irrational & insane people & they don't want to be helpless victims who are at the mercy of those irrational & insane people - which is why they want to means to defend themselves & their loved ones.
The 2nd Amendment people are also aware of the fact that violent criminals are released to prey upon helpless victims.


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## Packerjohn (May 25, 2021)

Perhaps I'm a bit prejudice but to me, California is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.  The Mamas and Papas had a song, years ago, about "California Dreamin'.  Perhaps for some that dreamin' has turned into a nightmare?  I feel perfectly safe around here.  The biggest problem here is people driving too fast on the perimeter but that's better than some nut shooting at people.


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## win231 (May 25, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> RGP. I started this thread to consult with fellow forum members that reside in the United States of North America, and not one replied with anything derogatory to say about me referring to the United States of North America as the USofA.
> 
> https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/usa-united-states-of-america-us-united-states-america.60379/
> 
> ...


What they found offensive was the fact that you added _"of,"_ to Bruce Springsteen's song, _"Born in the USA." _


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## Aunt Marg (May 25, 2021)

win231 said:


> What they found offensive was the fact that you added _"of,"_ to Bruce Springsteen's song, _"Born in the USA." _


Or that I abbreviated Donna Fargo's, U.S. of A song posted on page 4.


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## rgp (May 25, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> RGP. I started this thread to consult with fellow forum members that reside in the United States of North America, and not one replied with anything derogatory to say about me referring to the United States of North America as the USofA.
> 
> https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/usa-united-states-of-america-us-united-states-america.60379/
> 
> ...



 Well, they see it their way, & I see it my way. And I think after it is said time & time again, it carries a negative connotation .


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## Sunny (May 25, 2021)

These comments are from Marg, whose bloomers are in a bunch because some of us consider her attitudes about the U.S. to be snarky.  Actually, I think "snarky" is a bit too mild. When we put it all together, I think the words "openly hostile" are more appropriate.  Here's a sampling, and these all from just this one thread.

You don't like to hear the truth?
No, don't you dare throw the mother under the wheels of the bus.

If those packing guns in the USofA are that immature and void of brain cells where they look to reach for their guns to settle petty scores, then they're the catalyst.

I don't buy into your babble.

But hey, if you want to go through life using yourself as a welcome mat for everyone to kick and stub the soil off their footwear on, that's strictly up to you.

Altercations and gestures are common among drivers, with no grave consequences.

That's the joy of calling Canada my home, our governing parties are intelligent enough to recognize how unintelligent it is to allow it's people to pack guns around.
Yes, of course, violence, including gun violence has existed, and will always exist no matter what country or form of control governing parties look to implement, and it's true,
 in metro centres in Canada... Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton, crime rates have soared, gun violence included, but thanks to our governing parties, gun crimes
 aren't anywhere near as prevalent here in our country as they are in the USofA, and most shootings you hear of in our country are gang related (targeted hits), unlike in your country 
where reaching for ones gun is how people solve their daily problems no matter how trivial. [WHAT?!]

But where does it end, Remy?

Because you live in the USofA, you just allow everyone to walk on you?

Is that what the gun-culture in the USofA has created? Everyone living in fear? Afraid to say anything or stand up to anyone?

Pull up an internet article to back-up your claim, would you, because I want to see it for myself where those like myself who refer to your country as the USofA are being "snarky".

Extending the same offer to you Holly Dolly and Chet as well, seeing how you felt the need to add emoji likes to RGP's entry. Show me. Show me where my use of the term USofA is "snarky".

*                                            *                                           *                                       *                                          *

OK, Marg, that's the end of your contributions to this discussion that I have compiled. Although I largely agree with your stance on gun control and the damage done by the Second Amendment and the gun worshippers, I think your mocking attitude toward this country (not to mention your ignorance about it) manage to drown out any valid points you may be making. And I have to wonder: if you really have so much contempt for your country's nearest neighbor, why continue to keep ruffling feathers every chance you get?  Do you really think that stubbornly insisting on using an abbreviation for my country that no one here ever uses, dismissing the U.S. as being inferior to Canada (which seems to be a favorite theme of yours), schoolyard taunts, and so on, are really contributing anything worthwhile? Maybe it's time to grow up?


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## Aunt Marg (May 25, 2021)

I've moved on, Sunny and RGP, but please, by all means, you two carry on blubbering over the issue.


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## Elsie (May 26, 2021)

win231 said:


> People like to say_ "Mine's better than yours."  _People who live in one country often talk about how much better things are where they live than somewhere else; it makes them feel superior & feeling superior seems to be something people crave.
> 
> Even people who came to the USA from another country often talk about how much better things were in their country (that they couldn't wait to run away from)  LOL!  They sure get angry when I ask them, "Well, what are you doing here?"


I love your comment.


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## WhatInThe (May 26, 2021)

Orange County has offered $100K reward doubling the $50K offered by the family

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/reward-55-freeway-shooting-death-boy-aiden-leos/2603377/


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## win231 (May 26, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> Perhaps I'm a bit prejudice but to me, California is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.  The Mamas and Papas had a song, years ago, about "California Dreamin'.  Perhaps for some that dreamin' has turned into a nightmare?  I feel perfectly safe around here.  The biggest problem here is people driving too fast on the perimeter but that's better than some nut shooting at people.


Yes, those terrible things just don't happen in Canada     
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/17/794510796/why-gun-violence-is-surging-in-toronto


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## fuzzybuddy (May 26, 2021)

win231 said:


> Yes, and the 2nd Amendment people know there are deadly weapons in the hands of irrational & insane people & they don't want to be helpless victims who are at the mercy of those irrational & insane people - which is why they want to means to defend themselves & their loved ones.
> The 2nd Amendment people are also aware of the fact that violent criminals are released to prey upon helpless victims.


The majority of gun related deaths are suicides. And criminals shot by  victims, during the commission of a crime are rare. Personally, I don't believe there is such a thing as a "responsible gunowner". A gun is a lethal weapon. In the life of an average person, there are times of great emotional turmoil, when a lethal weapon can accelerate a situation. We are human beings with all our flaws. Plus, in the US, most murderers are known by their victims. It is my opinion that lethal weapons pose more of a threat to owners and bystanders, than any defensive use.


----------



## win231 (May 26, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> The majority of gun related deaths are suicides. And criminals shot by  victims, during the commission of a crime is rare. Personally, I don't believe there is such a thing as a "responsible gunowner". A gun is a lethal weapon. In the life of an average person, there are times of great emotional turmoil, when a lethal weapon can accelerate a situation. Plus, in the US, most murderer are known by the victims. It is my opinion that lethal weapons pose more of a threat, than any defensive use.


Guns are not for everyone.
People who can't control their emotions should not own guns; much like people who can't control their drinking should not have alcohol in their house.
People have to know their limitations.


----------



## DaveA (May 26, 2021)

Obviously the nut that shot a 6 year old in the head didn't "know his limitations". or maybe he did until confronting with a solitary finger waved at him.  How scary that must have been  --for him.

Must have been one of those guys who'd had his ass kicked in the school yard and was gonna show how big and bad he was.  Death sentence for a by-stander (the 6 year old) due to that fearful finger!!


----------



## win231 (May 26, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> The majority of gun related deaths are suicides. And criminals shot by  victims, during the commission of a crime are rare. Personally, I don't believe there is such a thing as a "responsible gunowner". A gun is a lethal weapon. In the life of an average person, there are times of great emotional turmoil, when a lethal weapon can accelerate a situation. We are human beings with all our flaws. Plus, in the US, most murderers are known by their victims. It is my opinion that lethal weapons pose more of a threat to owners and bystanders, than any defensive use.


"There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner?"  
Every single police officer, sheriff's deputy & highway patrol officer is irresponsible?
All military personnel are irresponsible?
Every single Secret Service agent is irresponsible?
Every single FBI agent is irresponsible?
Every single DEA agent is irresponsible?
Every single bodyguard is irresponsible?
You are certainly entitled to your opinion - regardless of how ridiculous it is.


----------



## DaveA (May 26, 2021)

I don't think he's speaking of those among us that carry guns as our "tools of the trade". 

It would more likely seem as though he's referring to the candya$$es running around, gun in hand, loudly proclaiming that "mine is bigger than yours".


----------



## win231 (May 26, 2021)

DaveA said:


> I don't think he's speaking of those among us that carry guns as our "tools of the trade".
> 
> It would more likely seem as though he's referring to the candya$$es running around, gun in hand, loudly proclaiming that "mine is bigger than yours".


He made it pretty clear by saying _"I don't believe there is such a thing as a responsible gun owner."_


----------



## Aunt Marg (May 27, 2021)

Reward now stands at $150,000 for information on the cowardly killer.


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## Aunt Marg (May 28, 2021)

Reward now up to $200,000

Praying the animal is found.


----------



## win231 (May 28, 2021)

DaveA said:


> Obviously the nut that shot a 6 year old in the head didn't "know his limitations". or maybe he did until confronting with a solitary finger waved at him.  How scary that must have been  --for him.
> 
> Must have been one of those guys who'd had his ass kicked in the school yard and was gonna show how big and bad he was.  Death sentence for a by-stander (the 6 year old) due to that fearful finger!!


Good point.  That's exactly why flipping off a stranger is such a stupid thing to do.  You have no way of knowing anything about his mental state or what kind of past he has had.  And you can't predict his reaction.


----------



## win231 (May 28, 2021)

win231 said:


> Good point.  That's exactly why flipping off a stranger is such a stupid thing to do.  You have no way of knowing anything about his mental state or what kind of past he has had.  And you can't predict his reaction.


When I was married, my wife & I were looking for a parking space in a crowded store (Fedco).  After 10 minutes  of driving around the parking lot, I followed some people who were leaving.  I waited while they loaded up their car & backed out.  As I started pulling in to the space, a big van coming from the opposite direction sped into the space, almost hitting me.
I said to the driver, "I guess you didn't see me waiting for that space."
He yelled, _"You're full of s--t ya f---ing a--hole." _ I drove away & found another space.
My wife said, "Rick (her first husband who died at 31) never would have let anyone get away with that."
I said, _"That's right; Rick wasn't very intelligent; that's why he spent so much time in the ER, getting hurt in fights over stupid things like a parking space."_
In a previous incident, before I met my wife, Rick nearly bled to death when he was involved in a fight with 2 guys at a gas station.
The fight was over who arrived at a gas pump first.  At the time, he was on a 6-day break from the hospital while being treated for Leukemia & the treatment interfered with his blood-clotting ability.  He also had severe issues with blood pressure - ruptured blood vessels, etc.
Yeah, _"Real men"_ get into fights over stupid things.
And _"Real men"_ would rather die than grow up.


----------



## Sunny (May 28, 2021)

Near the end of my husband's life, he and I decided to visit a very popular book store. We made the mistake of going on a Saturday, and finding a parking spot in the lot in front of the store was next to impossible. Finally, a space in the "handicapped" area opened up and I slipped into it. Another driver, who was a second too late, started honking at me and yelling, "Don't you see we have kids in this car?"  I replied, "Well, I have a man in a wheelchair in mine!"  The other driver grumblingly drove away and found another parking space.

When we were in the bookstore, a stranger came up to me. Turned out to be the other driver. He said, "I owe you an apology. I thought you were lying about having someone in a wheelchair, but I see you weren't. I had no right to yell at you." I thought that was so nice.


----------



## WhatInThe (May 28, 2021)

Picture of the suspect's vehicle. Police couldn't get the license plate.

https://abc7.com/aiden-leos-suspect-car-photo-chp-shooting-death/10705417/


----------



## Aunt Marg (May 28, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> Picture of the suspect's vehicle. Police couldn't get the license plate.
> 
> https://abc7.com/aiden-leos-suspect-car-photo-chp-shooting-death/10705417/


Wow! Up to $310,000 reward now (and counting)!

Great news! With a true vehicle identification I'm hoping the end is near!


----------



## Uptosnuff (May 28, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I just read this in the news... How absolutely devastating!! In this day and age of road rage, why  that mother thought it would be ok to flip the bird at anyone while having a child in the car is beyond me,  and rightly she should be blaming herself for the rest of her days!
> 
> the shooter was in the wrong but the mother was the catalyst!!



I'm coming to this thread a little late but I can't get past this.  Totally disagree with this sentiment.  It is no one's fault except the piece of #### that pulled the trigger on that gun that this boy is dead.  I don't care how many fingers were flipped at the other driver.  It is NEVER permissible to use a gun to show your displeasure.

What needs to be done in the US is combat this attitude that you settle differences, fears, anger, etc. by pulling a trigger on a gun.  Until we stop tolerating this type of attitude, the gun violence won't end.


----------



## win231 (May 28, 2021)

Uptosnuff said:


> I'm coming to this thread a little late but I can't get past this.  Totally disagree with this sentiment.  It is no one's fault except the piece of #### that pulled the trigger on that gun that this boy is dead.  I don't care how many fingers were flipped at the other driver.  It is NEVER permissible to use a gun to show your displeasure.
> 
> What needs to be done in the US is combat this attitude that you settle differences, fears, anger, etc. by pulling a trigger on a gun.  Until we stop tolerating this type of attitude, the gun violence won't end.


1.  You miss the point.
2.  You misinterpret criticism of the mother's actions.

1.  No one is _totally _blaming the mother.  We are saying the mother's immaturity & lack of self control set off the shooter.
2.  Those who criticize the mother's actions do not have the attitude that differences should be settled with a gun.


----------



## Been There (May 29, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Another "_good guy_" with a gun I gather.
> 
> Three cheers for the second amendment.


Hip, Hip Hooray!
Hip, Hip Hooray!
Hip, Hip Hooray!
There you go.


----------



## Uptosnuff (May 30, 2021)

@ win231   I don't think I'm missing the point at all.  The poster was, at least in part, blaming the mother on her child's death because she flipped off the other driver.  She reacted badly, yes, I don't condone flipping off other drivers, but she certainly doesn't deserve any blame for what some jerk did to her child.  Haven't you ever reacted badly to something some other driver did to you?  I have and I am certain everyone has at one time or another.  We are all human.  But we shouldn't expect to get shot or killed for it.

The fact that these types of incidences continue to happen and are increasing tells me that we need to step back and get to the root of why people are taking to guns.


----------



## WhatInThe (May 30, 2021)

Uptosnuff said:


> ........
> 
> The fact that these types of incidences continue to happen and are increasing tells me that we need to step back and get to the root of why people are taking to guns.


Exactly. why do they consider physical violence of anykind an actual option.

But in the end it is the individual who voluntarily chose to pull out their gun and shoot at that driver/car. Can ponder why forever in the end it's a criminal who committed that heinous criminal act.


----------



## win231 (May 30, 2021)

Uptosnuff said:


> @ win231   I don't think I'm missing the point at all.  The poster was, at least in part, blaming the mother on her child's death because she flipped off the other driver.  She reacted badly, yes, I don't condone flipping off other drivers, but she certainly doesn't deserve any blame for what some jerk did to her child.  Haven't you ever reacted badly to something some other driver did to you?  I have and I am certain everyone has at one time or another.  We are all human.  But we shouldn't expect to get shot or killed for it.
> 
> The fact that these types of incidences continue to happen and are increasing tells me that we need to step back and get to the root of why people are taking to guns.


When another driver is reckless, cuts me off, almost hits me, or does anything stupid, I always react - by quietly saying the word _"Asshole"_ repeatedly.  The other driver will never get a finger, or anything he/she would notice from me. 
I'm smart enough to know there are psychos out there_ (with & without guns_) & antagonizing a psycho is not smart.  Even without a gun, the other driver has a weapon even more deadly -_ their car. _


----------



## Butterfly (Jun 4, 2021)

win231 said:


> When another driver is reckless, cuts me off, almost hits me, or does anything stupid, I always react - by quietly saying the word _"Asshole"_ repeatedly.  The other driver will never get a finger, or anything he/she would notice from me.
> I'm smart enough to know there are psychos out there_ (with & without guns_) & antagonizing a psycho is not smart.  Even without a gun, the other driver has a weapon even more deadly -_ their car. _


I agree.  There is absolutely nothing to be gained by confronting the other driver, and a lot to be possibly lost.


----------



## WhatInThe (Jun 6, 2021)

Funeral for the 6 year old-Aiden Leos.

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/fu...6-year-old-killed-in-orange-freeway-shooting/


----------



## Remy (Jun 7, 2021)

I heard on the radio news this morning that two people have been arrested. I haven't searched for any details.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

Remy said:


> I heard on the radio news this morning that two people have been arrested. I haven't searched for any details.


OMG, fingers crossed, Remy!

Thank you for letting us know.

The reward grew to $450,000 as of last week.

MORE cameras are needed in our world, LOTS more, cameras everywhere!

Can't wait to see the mugs of the two low-life cowards!


----------



## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

*Update:

Suspects, Marcus Anthony Eriz, 24, and Wynne Lee, 23, were arrested at their home in Costa Mesa, and "are expected to be charged with murder," the release said.

According to the Orange County Jail Roster, Eriz and Lee are both being held on a $1 million bond and are scheduled to appear in court Monday.*


----------



## Keesha (Jun 7, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> *Update:
> 
> Suspects, Marcus Anthony Eriz, 24, and Wynne Lee, 23, were arrested at their home in Costa Mesa, and "are expected to be charged with murder," the release said.
> 
> According to the Orange County Jail Roster, Eriz and Lee are both being held on a $1 million bond and are scheduled to appear in court Monday.*


Good. I hope they rot in there.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

Keesha said:


> Good. I hope they rot in there.


Even that's too good for the scum.


----------



## win231 (Jun 7, 2021)

They won't "Rot in prison" for as long as you might think.  
First of all, he will never be charged with 1st degree murder; they'll never prove intent.  They couldn't even prove intent after Derek Chauvin's crime - which was far more intentional than this dirt bag's.  That takes a life sentence off the table.
His attorney will say_ "My client only intended to damage her car; not kill the child.  He didn't even know there was a child in the car."_
He'll probably be convicted of "Reckless or Negligent Homicide" or "Manslaughter" and "Negligent discharge of a firearm."  And regardless of the sentence, with early release, the prison time he will serve won't amount to much.
And the girlfriend probably won't be charged with anything; her attorney will say _"She had no control of her boyfriend's actions."_

Yes, reality sucks.  So does our justice system.


----------



## Keesha (Jun 7, 2021)

Reality doesn’t always suck but most justice systems do. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> They won't "Rot in prison" for as long as you might think.
> First of all, he will never be charged with 1st degree murder; they'll never prove intent.  They couldn't even prove intent after Derek Chauvin's crime - which was far more intentional than this dirt bag's.  That takes a life sentence off the table.
> His attorney will say_ "My client only intended to damage her car; not kill the child.  He didn't even know there was a child in the car."_
> He'll probably be convicted of "Reckless or Negligent Homicide" or "Manslaughter" and "Negligent discharge of a firearm."  And regardless of the sentence, with early release, the prison time he will serve won't amount to much.
> ...


I hope your hypothesis proves wrong.


----------



## Don M. (Jun 7, 2021)

It Never ends.  There was another "road rage" in Missouri, a couple of days ago.  Luckily, the driver who was shot survived, and one of his kids was able to remember the other cars license number, and the shooter was quickly caught.  

https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-opens-fire-family-6-175947855.html


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## DaveA (Jun 7, 2021)

Wow !  Tapping the brake pedal.  That definitely deserves a few rounds.  From a young woman with 2 kids in her car.  Sounds like a responsible, possibly legal gun owner carrying out her God given rights.  

She'd have been  out-gunned if the Pathfinder crowd had been "carrying".  

NRA wins big. People (and the Pathfinder folks) will flock to the stores for weapons, or additional weapons and double up on ammo supplies.  Is this part of making America great again?  More people trying to waste each other?


----------



## Remy (Jun 7, 2021)

Keesha said:


> Reality doesn’t always suck but most justice systems do. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.


I don't believe in justice. Some do get it. There have been too many who never did.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

Remy said:


> *I don't believe in justice.* Some do get it. There have been too many who never did.


I don't either, at least not the kind of justice that exists today.


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## Remy (Jun 7, 2021)

Drive safely and don't engage with anyone. Too many nuts out there.


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## Keesha (Jun 7, 2021)

Remy said:


> I don't believe in justice. Some do get it. There have been too many who never did.


True. Money talks and always will. 


Aunt Marg said:


> I don't either, at least not the kind of justice that exists today.


Agree. 


Remy said:


> Drive safely and don't engage with anyone. Too many nuts out there.


That’s the safest thing to do.


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## ohioboy (Jun 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> They won't "Rot in prison" for as long as you might think.
> First of all, he will never be charged with 1st degree murder; they'll never prove intent.  They couldn't even prove intent after Derek Chauvin's crime - which was far more intentional than this dirt bag's.  That takes a life sentence off the table.
> His attorney will say_ "My client only intended to damage her car; not kill the child.  He didn't even know there was a child in the car."_
> He'll probably be convicted of "Reckless or Negligent Homicide" or "Manslaughter" and "Negligent discharge of a firearm."  And regardless of the sentence, with early release, the prison time he will serve won't amount to much.
> ...


If someone tries to shoot or kill A, misses, and kills B, that is what is known as "Transferred intent", meaning it's just as if he meant to kill B to start with. What application that has in that state's law is unknown?


----------



## Pepper (Jun 7, 2021)

TV showed the murderer.  Wait until you see his insane face.  OMG.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

Pepper said:


> TV showed the murderer.  Wait until you see his insane face.  OMG.


I seen his mug, he doesn't look insane to me.


----------



## win231 (Jun 7, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I seen his mug, he doesn't look insane to me.


That's an older photo - not their booking photo.  In that photo, he's wide-eyed & look like a typical meth head:  (Found It)






Marcus Anthony Eriz





Wynne Lee


----------



## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> That's an older photo - not their booking photo.  In that photo, he's wide-eyed & look like a typical meth head:  (Found It)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I suspect his wide-eyed look is the result of his brain processing the fact that bedtime bubba is going to waiting for him.


----------



## ohioboy (Jun 7, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> If someone tries to shoot or kill A, misses, and kills B, that is what is known as "Transferred intent", meaning it's just as if he meant to kill B to start with. What application that has in that state's law is unknown?


Well, I'll be danged, it does apply in CA, just thought I'd be curious! Transferred intent for murder.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-supreme-court/1774157.html


----------



## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Well, I'll be danged, it does apply in CA, just thought I'd be curious! Transferred intent for murder.
> 
> https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-supreme-court/1774157.html


More welcome news!


----------



## win231 (Jun 7, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Well, I'll be danged, it does apply in CA, just thought I'd be curious! Transferred intent for murder.
> 
> https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-supreme-court/1774157.html


In that case, the drive-by shooters targeted another _person_.
It might be hard to prove the shooter in this case was targeting a person or just the car.


----------



## ohioboy (Jun 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> In that case, the drive-by shooters targeted another _person_.
> It might be hard to prove the shooter in this case was targeting a person or just the car.


That would not need to be proven. If you fire at a car with occupants, and it pierces, that defense is pointless. Although, as you say, no doubt his defense team will use anything/defense at their disposal.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> In that case, the drive-by shooters targeted another _person_.
> *It might be hard to prove the shooter in this case was targeting a person or just the car.*


So what you're saying is, it's okay to shoot at a vehicle, but just don't hit an occupant inside?


----------



## ohioboy (Jun 7, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> So what you're saying is, it's okay to shoot at a vehicle, but just don't hit an occupant inside?


No, that could still very well allow an Attempted murder charge, in addition to absolute charges such as felonius assault etc.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> No, that could still very well allow an Attempted murder charge, in addition to absolute charges such as felonius assault etc.


I hope they're able to throw the book at these two!


----------



## ohioboy (Jun 7, 2021)

Oh sorry your Q was for WIN, didn't mean to cut in.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Oh sorry your Q was for WIN, didn't mean to cut in.


You're not cutting in at all, Ohio, I welcome any/all replies, particularly yours.


----------



## ohioboy (Jun 7, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> You're not cutting in at all, Ohio, I welcome any/all replies, particularly yours.


Your bouquet of roses and box of chocolates will be arriving soon by special messenger.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Jun 7, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Your bouquet of roses and box of chocolates will be arriving soon by special messenger.


Can you get me the ones with the liqueur inside?


----------



## ohioboy (Jun 7, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Can you get me the ones with the liqueur inside?


NO, since you are only sweet 16, I can not furnish alcohol to a minor, ha.


----------



## win231 (Jun 8, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> So what you're saying is, it's okay to shoot at a vehicle, but just don't hit an occupant inside?


^^^ First place winner for most nonsensical post.
Suggestion:  Drink _after _posting.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Jun 8, 2021)

win231 said:


> ^^^ First place winner for most nonsensical post.
> Suggestion:  Drink _after _posting.


Oh boy, Win is giving out prizes now, isn't that special. 



> win231 said:
> It might be hard to prove the shooter in this case was targeting a person or just the car.


Yes, _hard to prove_, because shooters _always_ target the car and not the occupants inside. 

Instead of worrying about giving out prizes, check your blood sugar, I'd say it's out of whack.


----------



## RnR (Jun 8, 2021)

One day after the mother of a 6-year-old boy killed in a road rage shooting pleaded for justice at his memorial service, two people were arrested in connection with the boy's death. The California Highway Patrol said Marcus Anthony Eriz, 24, and Wynne Lee, 23, were taken into custody Sunday outside their home in Costa Mesa and are likely to be charged with murder.

CHP Assistant Chief Don Goodbrand said at a Monday news conference that authorities have recovered the weapon used in the attack and the vehicle in which the suspects were riding. He also said Lee was the driver but declined to share other details of the case, which has been handed to the Orange County district attorney's office for further investigation and prosecution.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...road-rage-death-suspects-arrested/7581276002/


----------



## hollydolly (Jun 8, 2021)

..and further on this story....

_In reflecting on why the case had prompted so much cooperation, in addition to national attention, Spitzer said, “It’s because it could have happened to any one of us.

"We all drive the freeways of Southern California. We’ve all gotten upset at other motorists; other motorists have been upset at us. I’ve thrown some gestures about myself. But it’s never come to a situation of violence, and certainly not in my realm or your realm to the loss of a life.''_


----------



## hollydolly (Jun 8, 2021)

The faces of the suspected killers.....  Marcus Anthony Eriz, 24, and Wynne Lee, 23,










Eriz is an auto shop worker whose social media is filled with photos of him showing off his guns and firing them at shooting ranges


----------



## Martha Ferris (Jun 8, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I just read this in the news... How absolutely devastating!! In this day and age of road rage, why  that mother thought it would be ok to flip the bird at anyone while having a child in the car is beyond me,  and rightly she should be blaming herself for the rest of her days!
> 
> the shooter was in the wrong but the mother was the catalyst!!


So agree with you.  Don't instigate.


----------



## Sunny (Jun 8, 2021)

True, she was the catalyst, but if that guy was sitting there with an itchy trigger finger, probably anything could have been the catalyst. The mother could have given him a dirty look, and that would have been enough to set him off also.


----------



## Butterfly (Jun 9, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> If someone tries to shoot or kill A, misses, and kills B, that is what is known as "Transferred intent", meaning it's just as if he meant to kill B to start with. What application that has in that state's law is unknown?


Here we have the "intent flies with the bullet" rule, too.


----------



## ohioboy (Jun 9, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Here we have the "intent flies with the bullet" rule, too.


Interesting, that maxim makes sense. From the CA ruling, this is how they phrased it:

 ...Recall the “classic example” of the “person who fires a bullet through a window, not knowing or caring whether anyone is behind” the pane.  (People v. Roberts (1992) 2 Cal.4th 271, 317, 6 Cal.Rptr.2d 276, 826 P.2d 274.)...


----------



## DaveA (Jun 9, 2021)

I'm just amazed that so many among us casually intermingle, shooting someone, anyone, as a result of name calling, gestures, or just being ornery.  Name calling, dirty looks, obscene gestures, shooting someone, and I would imagine chopping someone up with a machete or axe all fall in the same category for these folks.

If you shoot someone BEFORE they make their gesture, does that change how you feel?  How about if you only shot their finger off?  Does that make it justifiable.

What a f---ing insane country we are becoming.  Name calling, killings, gestures, and I would suppose, maimings, are all lumped together and the blame for them all is shared equally by the various participants.


----------



## WhatInThe (Jun 9, 2021)

DaveA said:


> I'm just amazed that so many among us casually intermingle, shooting someone, anyone, as a result of name calling, gestures, or just being ornery.  Name calling, dirty looks, obscene gestures, shooting someone, and I would imagine chopping someone up with a machete or axe all fall in the same category for these folks.
> 
> If you shoot someone BEFORE they make their gesture, does that change how you feel?  How about if you only shot their finger off?  Does that make it justifiable.
> 
> What a f---ing insane country we are becoming.  Name calling, killings, gestures, and I would suppose, maimings, are all lumped together and the blame for them all is shared equally by the various participants.


That's basically what going on in many these cities like Chicago where the local gangster will seek revenge not because one cost them money or shot a buddy but because they took what ever personally. No driving involved but similar reactions.


----------



## hollydolly (Jun 9, 2021)

DaveA said:


> I'm just amazed that so many among us casually intermingle, shooting someone, anyone, as a result of name calling, gestures, or just being ornery.  Name calling, dirty looks, obscene gestures, shooting someone, and I would imagine chopping someone up with a machete or axe all fall in the same category for these folks.
> 
> If you shoot someone BEFORE they make their gesture, does that change how you feel?  How about if you only shot their finger off?  Does that make it justifiable.
> 
> *What a f---ing insane country we are becoming.  Name calling, killings, gestures, and I would suppose, maimings, are all lumped together and the blame for them all is shared equally by the various participants.*


Not attacking, or taking any sides in the gun owner arguments.. ... but just to say that this in bold is how most of the rest of the world see you .. whether it's actually true in the main, only Americans know but  non  gun -toting   outsiders, this is what we've always seen...and believed..


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 9, 2021)

Remy said:


> I don't believe in justice. Some do get it. There have been too many who never did.


Remy...unfortunately you are *so* right. 

Re OP: I'm so glad they caught the shooter.  I hope this leads to justice being served for the loss of that adorable little boy. I just can't imagine what his parents and family are feeling. I saw a news report where the anchor gave an astonishing number. Hundreds) of children  were killed by gun violence in 2020 and this year's stats are no better. It's frightening and so heartbreaking!


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## ohioboy (Jun 9, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> That's basically what going on in many these cities like Chicago where the local gangster will seek revenge not because one cost them money or shot a buddy but because they took what ever personally. No driving involved but similar reactions.


Mob violence was at it's peak when Congress authorized FBI agents to be armed back in the 30's.


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## Elsie (Jun 11, 2021)

Being given the "finger", gee, how disparagingly disrespectful, it could ruin your whole life if you don't "finger" back in some ---- get even way.


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