# "Chinese virus - " yes or no?



## Sunny (Apr 12, 2020)

https://variety.com/2020/biz/news/bill-maher-coronavirus-chinese-virus-controversy-1234577859/

Usually I am a big fan of Bill Maher, but in this case, I think he's wrong. Any opinions about this?


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## Warrigal (Apr 12, 2020)

I think this is why it is a mistake to name viruses after countries or other localities



> The controversy over how people should refer to COVID-19 grew when President Trump stood by calling it the “Chinese virus” in late March. He later changed his decision on the name after a public uproar saying *it was harmful toward Asian Americans, who have experienced an increase in racist attacks *since the virus’ spread.



COVID 19 might not mean much to us now but it is systematic and will make better sense when people look back on this pandemic.


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## WhatInThe (Apr 12, 2020)

Place of origin helps but to me the real issue was this manufactured by nature or man. Deal with individuals or country down the road but now details about the virus are needed.


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## rgp (Apr 12, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> I think this is why it is a mistake to name viruses after countries or other localities
> 
> 
> 
> COVID 19 might not mean much to us now but it is systematic and will make better sense when people look back on this pandemic.




 Why?....many /most viruses are named after the location of origin. Rocky mountain spotted fever for instance. Lime disease , from the Lime Rock region of Conn. Norovirus, named after Norwalk, Oh.... Not unusual at all......and 'normal' when ya think about it.


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## Judycat (Apr 12, 2020)

Which Chinese virus? There have been a few of those. This one is Covid 19. Sheesh!


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 12, 2020)

I try to consider the source and the motive behind the comments.

IMO we waste our outrage on too many trivial things like this just to fill the cable networks and the internet with worthless content disguised as breaking news.


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## chic (Apr 12, 2020)

I don't see what difference it makes. It's a virus. That's all. It's not like it has a will of it's own.


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## Em in Ohio (Apr 12, 2020)

China is a huge place.  I think "_Wuhan"_ Virus is more appropriate.  And as to Chinese-Americans - let's just be nice to everyone - or at least not blame them for something they had nothing to do with.   Heard report that most of the NYC cases came from Europe, anyway.


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## Gaer (Apr 12, 2020)

I agree with calling it the Chinese virus.  That's where it originated.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 12, 2020)

I also agree that it IS the Chinese virus.   (The gift that keeps on giving.)   One of the very few times I agree with Bill Maher.


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## gennie (Apr 12, 2020)

The different ones need to be identified by some means than dates.  Place of origin makes sense to me.


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## Devi (Apr 12, 2020)

The -19 also works for me (as in COVID-19 ... or Wuhan-19 ... or Chinese-19) ... who knows what happens another year?


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## rgp (Apr 13, 2020)

Empty said:


> China is a huge place.  I think "_Wuhan"_ Virus is more appropriate.  And as to Chinese-Americans - let's just be nice to everyone - or at least not blame them for something they had nothing to do with.   Heard report that most of the NYC cases came from Europe, anyway.




It is not being "un-nice" to the Chinese Americans, anymore than calling the Norovirus was to being "un-nice" to Ohioans. Or....once again, the Rocky Mountain spotted fever was to the folks in that region.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Apr 13, 2020)

Spanish flu,German measles...I can't stand him.


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## Em in Ohio (Apr 13, 2020)

rgp said:


> It is not being "un-nice" to the Chinese Americans, anymore than calling the Norovirus was to being "un-nice" to Ohioans. Or....once again, the Rocky Mountain spotted fever was to the folks in that region.


My point was that I think 'point of origin,' if known, is important.  And Chinese-Americans have reported being harassed because the virus stemmed from a locale in their ancestral home.


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## StarSong (Apr 13, 2020)

Empty said:


> *My point was that I think 'point of origin,' if known, is important.  *And Chinese-Americans have reported being harassed because the virus stemmed from a locale in their ancestral home.


The point of origin is indeed known - or at least suspected (by Americans).  Why does it need to be in the title of the virus?  Let's not forget that Chinese leaders are responding with an accusation that Americans brought it over there.  Imagine if they convinced the WHO to call it The American Virus?    

Calling it "the Chinese virus" is a thinly shielded blame-game that certain politicians love to play.  Each side responds by upping the ante.  
Little boys playing, "Not IT!" instead of working the problem. Their nonsense is distracting, non-productive, destructive and exhausting. 

Respected scientists and serious leaders don't waste time with this kind of nonsense.


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## Em in Ohio (Apr 13, 2020)

StarSong said:


> ...Calling it "the Chinese virus" is a thinly shielded blame-game that certain politicians love to play.  Each side responds by upping the ante.
> Little boys playing, "Not IT!" instead of working the problem. Their nonsense is distracting, non-productive, destructive and exhausting...


  Very much true throughout history, which is written by the victors, they say - and flipped by everyone else involved.
https://www.history.com/news/why-was-it-called-the-spanish-flu


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## Rosemarie (Apr 13, 2020)

We do have a right to know just how and where this virus originated. If it is the result of interfering with nature, as is so often the case, then we need to know. However, venting your anger on innocents is childish and pointless. Let's show a bit of maturity.


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## grahamg (Apr 13, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> We do have a right to know just how and where this virus originated. If it is the result of interfering with nature, as is so often the case, then we need to know. However, venting your anger on innocents is childish and pointless. Let's show a bit of maturity.



If I could tell you with absolute certainty this virus originated on the moon, would you be satisfied or frustrated you no longer have someone to blame (am I being childish asking?)?


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## Rosemarie (Apr 13, 2020)

grahamg said:


> If I could tell you with absolute certainty this virus originated on the moon, would you be satisfied or frustrated you no longer have someone to blame (am I being childish asking?)?


Yes, you are being petty, because this virus is affecting the whole world. We do need to know how it originated because, apart from anything else, knowing its origins will surely help with finding a vaccine.
I'm not looking to blame anyone, so don't nitpick!


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## Manatee (Apr 13, 2020)

I had the Spanish flu years ago, I hope I don't get the Chinese Virus this time.


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## TravelinMan (Apr 13, 2020)

_Let's not play the fool's blame game or politicize it, but rather listen to the information given to us and try our best to stay safe.  Anyone who wants to stay informed can come to their own understanding of its origin.  PCness is out of control now, IMO._


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 13, 2020)

I agree with Bill Maher, if it originated in China there is no harm in saying so.  To give it that name though, to cause discrimination against the Chinese people, in this case it has caused resentment against Chinese Americans in some cases, that is not right and in general conversation it should be referred to as the Novel Coronavirus, or COVID-19.

Does anyone think the "Spanish Flu" should have been referred to as the "Kansas Flu" or the "American Flu".  This flu was a long time ago, and I've only read about it with this in mind recently.

https://www.historylink.org/File/20300


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## AnnieA (Apr 13, 2020)

I prefer CCP Virus.  First saw someone use it on this forum.  When I looked it up, I read that Chinese national dissidents agree.  It puts blame for the scale  of the pandemic right where it belongs...on the Chinese Communist Party that lied to covered up, persecuted those trying to get the truth past censorss until it finally blew the hell up on them.  Think of how different things might be in the world today had the Chinese government behaved ethically


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## grahamg (Apr 13, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> I prefer CCP Virus.  First saw someone use it on this forum.  When I looked it up, I read that Chinese national dissidents agree.  It puts blame for the scale  of the pandemic right where it belongs...on the Chinese Communist Party that lied to covered up, persecuted those trying to get the truth past censorss until it finally blew the hell up on them.  Think of how different things might be in the world today had the Chinese government behaved ethically



Does that make you feel better, apportioning blame without any quarter given?

Carry on, it won't make a blind bit of difference, but what may make a difference is the openers of the Chinese government when the seriousness of the infection was accepted by them.


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## AnnieA (Apr 14, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Does that make you feel better, apportioning blame without any quarter given?



Yes. To the Chinese Communist Party, not the Chinese people.   Hence CCP Virus instead of Chinese or Wuhan Virus.  Chinese dissidents support the name.


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## IrisSenior (Apr 14, 2020)

I must be simple and don't get this. COVID stands for "Chinese-originated Viral Infectious Disease"; so it is already called Chinese? Only those of little mind would blame all Chinese (or Asians) for this.
Other diseases some others have mentioned; I would need to look them up to see where they originated.
So: What's the difference?
It happened, this one affects everyone, so the only reason I would want to know where it comes from is that it doesn't happen again.
Period.


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## StarSong (Apr 14, 2020)

IrisSenior said:


> I must be simple and don't get this. COVID stands for "Chinese-originated Viral Infectious Disease"; so it is already called Chinese? Only those of little mind would blame all Chinese (or Asians) for this.


That's a myth.  COVID-19 actually stands for COrona VIrus Disease (CO-VI-D) 2019 (the year it emerged). 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...ase-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...-for/507-9e015465-af20-4812-9e65-24ecdc6f064d


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## RadishRose (Apr 14, 2020)

Why does this thing have so many names? Even this has to be political. Blame game. I'm tired of it. Just my 2 cents.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 14, 2020)

RadishRose said:


> Why does this thing have so many names? Even this has to be political. Blame game. I'm tired of it. Just my 2 cents.


It was the same when "swine flu" became "H1N1."   I can't keep up with all the names.   I also wonder why this particular virus has shut down the entire world when the previous ones were equally deadly but did not.


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## AnnieA (Apr 14, 2020)

RadishRose said:


> Why does this thing have so many names? Even this has to be political. Blame game. I'm tired of it. Just my 2 cents.



It's political to me because the Chinese Communist Party made the decision to try to  hide the disease until it blew up on them.  Then they tried to downplay it and 'disappeared' brave individuals who tried to bypass totalitarian censorship to get the truth to the rest of us.  

When I say CCP Virus, it's not only to blame the CCP, but is also to honor honest people oppressed by that regime.  'Made in China' and the horrible sweatshop conditions that go along with it used to bother me, but somewhere along the way, I numbed those feelings. Covid-19/CCP Virus has been a wakeup call for me.  I'm appalled that the people who make our vitamins and baby formula can't buy them safely for their own use, and that their government has the power to literaly lock them in their homes sick in order to try and save face. 

Calling it CCP Virus reminds me of all that


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## RadishRose (Apr 14, 2020)

@Annie, yes it's all as you say. I'm just downhearted about possible escalation of hate towards the everyday people.


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## CarolfromTX (Apr 14, 2020)

He's the same idiot that wished for a recession so Trump would not be re-elected. I don't care what he says.  Guess he got his wish. Idiot. Don't care what they call this virus. But the Chinese have got some 'splainin' to do.


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## StarSong (Apr 15, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> He's the same idiot that wished for a recession so Trump would not be re-elected. I don't care what he says.  Guess he got his wish. Idiot. Don't care what they call this virus. But the Chinese have got some 'splainin' to do.


This ball has been fumbled numerous times.  The Chinese were first, but the US has had lots of less-than-stellar moments, too.


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## toffee (Apr 15, 2020)

think truth is that it did originate from a place in china ' they blame the fithy markets of live animals caged '
its not the first out break from that country -my self I think that it could have been caused by a lab leak ' the virus was spread world wide in a few days more than any other virus / or flu epidemic or plague/ it took just 3days to to cover the whole planet ...but just 
my thoughts on it ……......…..


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## Don M. (Apr 15, 2020)

As the investigation continues, more evidence is appearing that shows that this virus may well have come about as the result of some errors in a Chinese laboratory.  It will probably be months before any final assessment is reached, but I doubt that something this viral came from a "natural" source.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-officials-were-reportedly-concerned-144822872.html


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## grahamg (Apr 15, 2020)

Can anyone expressing doubts as to whether this Coronavirus pandemic arrived by a mutation amongst populations of animals carrying similar Corona virus strains and moved on to humans, as has happened many times in the past, assist those of us who feel our instinct on such matters (that what we're being told by experts is the case), should be challenged in our minds because we've heard from a mate, or thought/dreamt something up one day, without any background at all in science, or epidemiology, should be given the slightest shrift by anyone?

What do they say about "Chinese whispers", (aptly named hey, though oh so serious here!)?


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## StarSong (Apr 15, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Can anyone expressing doubts as to whether this Coronavirus pandemic arrived by a mutation amongst populations of animals carrying similar Corona virus strains and moved on to humans, as has happened many times in the past, assist those of us who feel our instinct on such matters (that what we're being told by experts is the case), should be challenged in our minds because we've heard from a mate, or thought/dreamt something up one day, without any background at all in science, or epidemiology, should be given the slightest shrift by anyone?
> 
> What do they say about "Chinese whispers", (aptly named hey, though oh so serious here!)?


Ummm, what???


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## grahamg (Apr 15, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Ummm, what???



You wont have heard of Victor Meldrew, but to use his catchphrase "I don't believe it!"


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## StarSong (Apr 15, 2020)

I don't understand your 92 word sentence.  Please clarify it.


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## RadishRose (Apr 15, 2020)

Did you ever learn how to construct a sentence or a paragraph?

Your post is so verbose, I do not know what you are talking about.

Please try again. Thanks.


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## grahamg (Apr 15, 2020)

Okay then, as you asked so nicely!

I admit I cobbled it together too, but I was simply raising the issue, as to whether we should be believing something akin to "Chinese whispers"?

Rumours,  or based upon more or less nothing, other than someone with no real knowledge of diseases in any academic sense, should be given any credence?

Simple enough?


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## AnnieA (Apr 15, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Okay then, as you asked so nicely!
> 
> I admit I cobbled it together too, but I was simply raising the issue, as to whether we should be believing something akin to "Chinese whispers"?
> 
> ...



No.   Don't try to be clever.   Coherently express your thoughts in concrete detail.   There are holes and opacity in whatever it is you're trying to say and I don't care to mind read the gaps.  Spell it out clearly for us eejits.


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## RadishRose (Apr 15, 2020)

My answer is no.


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## grahamg (Apr 15, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> No.   Don't try to be clever.   Coherently express your thoughts in concrete detail.   There are holes and opacity in whatever it is you're trying to say and I don't care to mind read the gaps.  Spell it out clearly for us eejits.



I believe some respected scientists have examined the genome of the Covid 19 virus, and published their work in respected scientific journals debunking this conspiracy theory business a month ago. If I can I'll come back to you with some names, or a link, and all the rest of us eejits can read it to our hearts content, if our minds are open enough to accept it to make it worthwhile.   .


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## grahamg (Apr 15, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I don't understand your 92 word sentence.  Please clarify it.



Well done counting the number of words! Stirling effort, and I'm glad to have been of service to anyone needing something to do in these days of unanticipated leisure.    .

(I made it 93 words BTW)


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## grahamg (Apr 15, 2020)

If anyone can find a link the scientific authors of the report I'm referring to are Kristian Andersen of Cripps Research, along with scientists from Columbia university in New York, University of Sydney in Australia,  and Tulane university in New Orleans.


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## StarSong (Apr 16, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Well done counting the number of words! Stirling effort, and I'm glad to have been of service to anyone needing something to do in these days of unanticipated leisure.    .
> 
> (I made it 93 words BTW)


I didn't personally count them - I pasted your sentence into MS Word to see if I could break it apart and make sense of it.  MS Word automatically counts the words.


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## grahamg (Apr 16, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I didn't personally count them - I pasted your sentence into MS Word to see if I could break it apart and make sense of it.  MS Word automatically counts the words.



Okay, no big deal obviously, and quite funny really!

I hope I can provide a link to an article I might have mentioned earlier on the thread now:
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200318/new-coronavirus-wasnt-made-in-a-lab-genomic-study-shows#2

I couldn't access it myself but maybe others can(?).

Here is a short section of the text I've found elsewhere though:
"
_As the pandemic spreads, rumors of nefarious plots of scientists creating SARS-CoV-2 in a lab have proliferated.
But Andersen's team believes their investigation proves otherwise. They pointed out that coronaviruses have long existed, causing illnesses of varying severity.

The first severe coronavirus-linked illness -- severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) -- emerged in China in 2003, while another -- Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) -- arose in Saudi Arabia in 2012.

While both of those epidemics died out, COVID-19 continues to spread worldwide. Early on in the pandemic, Chinese scientists mapped the genome of SARS-CoV-2 and made that data freely available to scientists worldwide.


Using that genome map, Andersen and colleagues examined the genetic template for proteins on the outside of the virus, called spike proteins. SARS-CoV-2 uses these proteins to latch onto the host cell.

Digging deeper, the researchers looked at the evolution of key components of the spike protein.

One component, called the receptor-binding domain (RBD), is a kind of "grappling hook" that SARS-CoV-2 uses to grip human cells. The RBD of the new virus is incredibly effective at binding to the cell -- so effective, in fact, that the scientists believe it could only have evolved through natural selection. "_


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## StarSong (Apr 16, 2020)

Thank you, @grahamg, that was very helpful.  I happen to agree with the thrust of the article.
p.s. I had no difficulty accessing the full article with the link you provided.


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## AnnieA (Apr 16, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I believe some respected scientists have examined the genome of the Covid 19 virus, and published their work in respected scientific journals debunking this conspiracy theory business a month ago. If I can I'll come back to you with some names, or a link, and all the rest of us eejits can read it to our hearts content, if our minds are open enough to accept it to make it worthwhile.   .



Thanks!   That whole "70% of communication is nonverbal" thing becomes an issue on message boards!

As for the research into Wuhan lab, the US military isn't considering research to date conclusive.  This sort of thing generally takes a lot of time and study. 

China isn't helping matters with new restrictions on academic research into the origins of COVID-19.

https://us.cnn.com/2020/04/12/asia/china-coronavirus-research-restrictions-intl-hnk/index.html

Excerpts: 

China has imposed restrictions on the publication of academic research on the origins of the novel coronavirus, according to a central government directive and online notices published by two Chinese universities, that have since been removed from the web.​​Under the new policy, all academic papers on Covid-19 will be subject to extra vetting before being submitted for publication. Studies on the origin of the virus will receive extra scrutiny and must be approved by central government officials, according to the now-deleted posts.​...​The increased scrutiny appears to be the latest effort by the Chinese government to control the narrative on the origins of the coronavirus pandemic...​


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## StarSong (Apr 16, 2020)

A government trying to control the narrative about something?  Hard to imagine.


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## AnnieA (Apr 16, 2020)

StarSong said:


> A government trying to control the narrative about something?  Hard to imagine.



LOL, right.  Especially a communist regime.


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## StarSong (Apr 16, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> LOL, right.  Especially a communist regime.


Would that it were limited to communist regimes and dictators.  These days there's a whole lot of spin from virtually every government, ours included.  Plenty of politicians are peeing on their citizens' legs while loudly proclaiming it's raining.


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## Judycat (Apr 16, 2020)

That Stupid Virus is good enough for me. Almost everyone knows what it is I'm talking about. If you have to ask which virus, you've been living under a rock for several months.


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## AnnieA (Apr 16, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Would that it were limited to communist regimes and dictators.  These days there's a whole lot of spin from virtually every government, ours included.  Plenty of politicians are peeing on their citizens legs while loudly proclaiming it's raining.



Agreed.   And not just us.  I can't tell the difference between most nations' handling of the CCP Virus regardless of the label for form of government.


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## Gaer (Apr 16, 2020)

4-16-2020 They just announced on Fox News that the origin has been traced to a laboratory in China.  I have no more information on this.


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## garyt1957 (Apr 16, 2020)

I copied this from the comments of the link provided , but I agree with every word:
The Chinese wet markets are reopening because: A) the virus actually came from Wuhan B) they’d like to start another shitstorm in short order. Either way, isn’t it time the rest of the world sanctioned them and perhaps isolated them economically the way Iran has been isolated? Sure, they own billions of Treasury bonds, but they can’t unload them without committing economic suicide. Put the screws on their leadership and see how long Winnie the Poo survives, because one thing is clear, the whole world is at risk every moment the CCP is still active. There has to be some downside to their kicking out viruses on the rest of the world with the frequency of a cheap ham radio.


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## garyt1957 (Apr 16, 2020)

grahamg said:


> If I could tell you with absolute certainty this virus originated on the moon, would you be satisfied or frustrated you no longer have someone to blame (am I being childish asking?)?


No, just kind of dumb


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## Ladybj (Apr 16, 2020)

NOOOOO NOOOOO NOOOOOO!!!!   That's JMO.


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## Ladybj (Apr 16, 2020)

TravelinMan said:


> _Let's not play the fool's blame game or politicize it, but rather listen to the information given to us and try our best to stay safe.  Anyone who wants to stay informed can come to their own understanding of its origin.  PCness is out of control now, IMO._


But is the information accurate?????????


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## grahamg (Apr 16, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> No, just kind of dumb



Look, if asking hypothetical questions amounts to someone being dumb in your world so be it, but as my old dad used to say, sometimes you should take notice of a fool.


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## garyt1957 (Apr 17, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Look, if asking hypothetical questions amounts to someone being dumb in your world so be it, but as my old dad used to say, sometimes you should take notice of a fool.


There was nothing hypothetical about it, it was a veiled insult to the person, because they "need someone to blame". You seem to think you're clever. I beg to differ.


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## RadishRose (Apr 17, 2020)

Judycat said:


> That Stupid Virus is good enough for me.


I understand completely.


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## RadishRose (Apr 17, 2020)

Gaer said:


> 4-16-2020 They just announced on Fox News that the origin has been traced to a laboratory in China.  I have no more information on this.


This is the article. I've only skimmed it for right now, but it states the report is inconclusive at this point.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/state-department-cables-coronavirus-origin-chinese-lab-bats


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## JustBonee (Apr 17, 2020)

Gaer said:


> 4-16-2020 They just announced on Fox News that the origin has been traced to a laboratory in China.  I have no more information on this.



EXCLUSIVE: There is increasing confidence that the COVID-19 outbreak likely originated in a Wuhan laboratory, though not as a bioweapon but as part of China's attempt to demonstrate that its efforts to identify and combat viruses are equal to or greater than the capabilities of the United States, multiple sources who have been briefed on the details of early actions by China's government and seen relevant materials tell Fox News.

This may be the "costliest government cover-up of all time," one of the sources said.

*The sources believe the initial transmission of the virus – a naturally occurring strain that was being studied there – was bat-to-human and that "patient zero" worked at the laboratory, then went into the population in Wuhan.*

The “increasing confidence” comes from classified and open-source documents and evidence, the sources said. Fox News has requested to see the evidence directly. Sources emphasized -- as is often the case with intelligence -- that it’s not definitive and should not be characterized as such. Some inside the administration and the intelligence and epidemiological communities are more skeptical, and the investigation is continuing.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources.amp


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## grahamg (Apr 17, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> There was nothing hypothetical about it, it was a veiled insult to the person, because they "need someone to blame". You seem to think you're clever. I beg to differ.


I've lived long enough not to be worried too much about negative opinions and here's something else to be sniffy about, or think is stupid (because maybe it is as a statement of the obvious):

" It'll either rain or go dark before morning"!

People do often need someone to blame though, either that or the "blame game" we keep hearing about doesn't exist.


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