# Religion in America slips....



## AZ Jim (May 13, 2015)

[h=1]Christianity faces sharp decline as Americans are becoming even less affiliated with religion[/h]

*washingtonpost.com*/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/05/12/christianity-faces-sharp-decline-as-americans-are-becoming-even-less-affiliated-with-religion/





 The Memorial Peace Cross is a well-known landmark in Bladensburg, Md. (Mark Gail for The Washington Post)

 Christianity  is on the decline in America, not just among younger generations or in  certain regions of the country but across race, gender, education and  geographic barriers. The percentage of adults who describe themselves as  Christians dropped by nearly eight percentage points in just seven  years to about 71 percent, according to a survey conducted by the Pew Research Center.

“It’s  remarkably widespread,” said Alan Cooperman, director of religion  research for the Pew Research Center. “The country is becoming less  religious as a whole, and it’s happening across the board.”


At  the same time, the share of those who are not affiliated with a religion  has jumped from 16 percent to about 23 percent in the same time period.  The trend follows a pattern found earlier in the American Religious Identification Survey, which found that in 1990, 86 percent of American adults identified as Christians, compared with 76 percent in 2008.


Here are three key takeaways from Pew’s new survey.

*1. Millennials are growing even less affiliated with religion as they get older *
 The  older generation of millennials (those who were born from 1981 to 1989)  are becoming even less affiliated with religion than they were about a  decade ago, the survey suggests. In 2007, when the Pew Research Center  did their last Religious Landscape Survey and these adults were just  entering adulthood, 25 percent of them did not affiliate with a  religion, but this grew to 34 percent in the latest survey.
 The  trends among the aging millennials is especially significant, said Greg  Smith, associate director of research at the Pew Research Center. In  2010, 13 percent of baby boomers were religiously unaffiliated as they  were entering retirement, the same percentage in 1972.
 “Some have  asked, ‘Might they become more religiously affiliated as they get  older?’ There’s nothing in this data to suggest that’s what’s  happening,” he said. Millennials get married later than older  generations, but they are not necessarily more likely to become  religiously affiliated, he said.
*2. There are more religiously unaffiliated Americans than Catholic Americans or mainline Protestant Americans*
 The  numbers of Catholics and Protestants have each shrunk between three and  five percentage points since 2007. The evangelical share of the  American population has dropped by one percentage point since 2007.
 There  are more religiously unaffiliated Americans (23 percent) than Catholics  (21 percent) and mainline Protestants (15 percent). “That’s a striking  and important note,” Smith said.




 The  groups experience their losses through what’s called “religious  switching,” when someone switches from one faith to another. Thirteen  percent of Americans were raised Catholic but are no longer Catholic,  compared with just 2 percent of Americans who are converts to  Catholicism.
 “That means that there are more than six former  Catholics for every convert to Catholicism,” Smith said. “There’s no  other group in the survey that has that ratio of loss due to religious  switching.”
 There are 3 million fewer Catholics today than there  were in 2007. While the percentage of Catholics in the United States has  remained relatively steady, Smith said we might be observing the  beginning of the decline of the Catholic share of the population.
 Pew estimates  there are about 5 million fewer mainline Protestants than there were in  2007. About 10 percent of the U.S. population say they were raised in  the mainline Protestant tradition, while 6 percent have converted to  mainline Protestantism.
 Evangelical Protestants have  experienced less decline, due to their net positive retention rate. For  every person who has left evangelical Protestantism after growing up,  1.2 have switched to join an evangelical denomination.
*3. Those who are unaffiliated are becoming more secular*
 The  “nones,” or religiously unaffiliated, include atheists, agnostics and  those who say they believe in “nothing in particular.” Of those who are  unaffiliated, 31 percent describe themselves as atheists or agnostics,  up six points from 2007.
 “What we’re seeing now is that  the share of people who say religion is important to them is declining,”  Smith said. “The religiously unaffiliated are not just growing, but as  they grow, they are becoming more secular.”
 And people  in older generations are increasingly disavowing organized religion.  Among baby boomers, 17 percent identify as a religious “none,” up from  14 percent in 2007.
 “There’s a continuing religious  disaffiliation among older cohorts. That is really striking,” Smith  said. “I continue to be struck by the pace at which the unaffiliated are  growing.”
 White Americans (24 percent) are more likely  to say they have no religion, compared with 20 percent of Hispanic  Americans and 18 percent of black Americans. The retention rates of the  “nones” who say they were raised as religiously affiliated has grown by  seven points since 2007 to 53 percent.
 The Pew survey was conducted between June and September of 2014.
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  Sarah Pulliam Bailey is a religion reporter,  covering how faith intersects with politics, culture and...everything.  She can be found on Twitter @spulliam.


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## Josiah (May 13, 2015)

Hey we're catching up with Europe. Two healthy trends are preceding faster than I imagined; alternative energy and secularization.


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## AZ Jim (May 13, 2015)

Now if we could just get the middle east to wake up, but there if you speak out about religion, you get beheaded.


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## merlin (May 13, 2015)

Josiah said:


> Hey we're catching up with Europe. Two healthy trends are preceding faster than I imagined; alternative energy and secularization.



We are all lost to the devil in Europe Josiah, and alternative energy is easy when you are all wind and water nthego:


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## Josiah (May 13, 2015)

merlin said:


> We are all lost to the devil in Europe Josiah, and alternative energy is easy when you are all wind and water nthego:



I'm sorry Merlin, but I didn't feel confident that I understood exactly what you meant in either statement. Could you rephrase your comment?


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## merlin (May 13, 2015)

Josiah said:


> I'm sorry Merlin, but I didn't feel confident that I understood exactly what you meant in either statement. Could you rephrase your comment?



Sorry Josiah it was a throwaway remark, not to be taken seriously, .........too much cognac  .............on a more serious note, I have always been surprised by how seriously the US takes religion, and how little attention is paid to conservation of energy, and climate change.

By the way Mr Putin regards Europe as being highly immoral and "lost to the devil" which is what I quoted. Religion is taken very seriously in Russia, but not to the extent of beheading, at least not yet.


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## Warrigal (May 13, 2015)

Religion is not disappearing in Australia but Christianity is in decline. 
The census taken every 5 years shows it still to be the majority acknowledged faith but the percentage is less every time.

Australians have always worn their religion lightly. I only ever talk about it at church and on this forum in discussions. 
My ethics and morality, particularly with respect to social justice, are predicated on my religious understandings of my life's purpose.


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## SeaBreeze (May 13, 2015)

I heard a conservative talk show host going bonkers over this Pew survey this morning, denying any validity, and insisting that Christians like himself were still going strong in America despite the findings of the survey, he was quite upset.  I was raised as Catholic, and no longer have any desire to be involved with any organized religion.  I don't care what people choose to believe personally, it just disturbs me when someone running for an important public office, like the Presidency, wants to rule the country by the bible and wants to influence the country the way his god directs him.


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## Don M. (May 13, 2015)

More and more people are discovering that the most important thing in most churches is the passing of the Collection Plate.  Radicalism, and Extremism is becoming the norm in many religions.


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## Louis (May 13, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> I heard a conservative talk show host going bonkers over this Pew survey this morning, denying any validity, and insisting that Christians like himself were still going strong in America despite the findings of the survey, he was quite upset.  I was raised as Catholic, and no longer have any desire to be involved with any organized religion.  I don't care what people choose to believe personally, it just disturbs me when someone running for an important public office, like the Presidency, wants to rule the country by the bible and wants to influence the country the way his god directs him.



It scares me to think of the number of voters who would eagerly support theocracy in the US. That is, as long as it is Christian theocracy.


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## Warrigal (May 13, 2015)

It could be argued that Jesus never expected his followers to be the majority.
They are meant to be the light in the darkness, the yeast in the bread and the salt in the stew.
In other words, Christians are meant to be an additive that improves and enriches society.

I have no problem contemplating a future where Christians are a small minority but I do not want them to disappear altogether.
I would regard that as a loss for humanity.


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## Underock1 (May 14, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> I heard a conservative talk show host going bonkers over this Pew survey this morning, denying any validity, and insisting that Christians like himself were still going strong in America despite the findings of the survey, he was quite upset.  I was raised as Catholic, and no longer have any desire to be involved with any organized religion.  I don't care what people choose to believe personally, it just disturbs me when someone running for an important public office, like the Presidency, wants to rule the country by the bible and wants to influence the country the way his god directs him.



Well Christians "like himself" _are _still going strong. As they become fewer in numbers, they get louder and more extreme.
The good part is that their very actions are one of the big reasons people are turning away. The main reason, world wide, to my mind, is the internet. People who would never have dreamed of voicing their disbelief to the person next to them in the pew, are talking to each other anonymously on the Web and finding many sympathetic ears. Its the great prison escape of the 21st century.


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## Glinda (May 14, 2015)

I take this as a very healthy trend.  It show that more people are unwilling to blindly accept a religious doctrine or to have it imposed on them by others who think they know better.


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## Don M. (May 14, 2015)

There were many nations essentially ruled by religion in centuries past....think Europe in the Middle ages...and history shows how well that worked out for the average people.  People like Huckabee seem to think that turning the clock back 700 years would be a good thing.  Islam's hold on the Middle East today certainly isn't doing the people of those nations any favors.  One of the wisest moves our government established in its foundation was the Separation of Church and State....Politics should Never by guided by the Pulpit.


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## QuickSilver (May 14, 2015)

Louis said:


> It scares me to think of the number of voters who would eagerly support theocracy in the US. That is, as long as it is Christian theocracy.


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## QuickSilver (May 14, 2015)




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## Shalimar (May 14, 2015)

Religion is slipping in Canada also. Fortunately, even our right-wing evangelical Prime Minister keeps his antiquated religious beliefs out of his politics, except for his biblical fixation with Israel, and subsequent attempt to exclude the United Church of Canada wherever he can.


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## QuickSilver (May 14, 2015)

What's funny about the "biblical fixation" about Israel, is that the far right could care less about the Jews now... Their roll is to repent in the end and "accept Jesus".  If not... off to hell with  them... 

However, the Bible does say there will be terrible conflict in Israel during the end times. That is why the time period is known as the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation, and the “time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7). Here is what the Bible says about Israel in the end times:

 There will be a mass return of Jews to the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 30:3; Isaiah 43:6; Ezekiel 34:11-13; 36:24; 37:1-14).

 The Antichrist will make a 7-year covenant of "peace" with Israel (Isaiah 28:18; Daniel 9:27).

 The temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 11:1).

 The Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel, and worldwide persecution of Israel will result (Daniel 9:27; 12:1, 11; Zechariah 11:16; Matthew 24:15, 21; Revelation 12:13). Israel will be invaded (Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

 Israel will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10). Israel will be regenerated, restored, and regathered (Jeremiah 33:8; Ezekiel 11:17; Romans 11:26).


Read more:  http://www.gotquestions.org/end-times-Israel.html#ixzz3a8EbcFfw


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## Underock1 (May 14, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> It could be argued that Jesus never expected his followers to be the majority.
> They are meant to be the light in the darkness, the yeast in the bread and the salt in the stew.
> In other words, Christians are meant to be an additive that improves and enriches society.
> 
> ...



I appreciate your sympathies for the faith you know and love. Good people would not disappear if Christianity and/or all other religions did. It _is_ _possible_ for people to be good, just because they are good. I think its sad that people separate themselves into rival groups over mystical ideas. I apply this to _all _magical thinking. I am an equal opportunity non-believer.


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## Underock1 (May 14, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


>



That is a revelation ( no pun intended ) QS. My mind is really fuzzy over that election. I really can't remember who I supported.


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## AZ Jim (May 14, 2015)

Back in the 50's when I was in the service and they were issuing dog tags one of the pieces of info included on them along with name, branch, serial number, blood type was religion.  As I recall there were three choices, Protestant, Catholic or Jewish.  I don't think they asked if you preferred "none of the above" but I chose the Protestant rather than make an issue of it.  So, had anything have happened to me some some poor minister would have been summoned to usher me into "heaven".


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## QuickSilver (May 14, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Back in the 50's when I was in the service and they were issuing dog tags one of the pieces of info included on them along with name, branch, serial number, blood type was religion.  As I recall there were three choices, Protestant, Catholic or Jewish.  I don't think they asked if you preferred "none of the above" but I chose the Protestant rather than make an issue of it.  So, had anything have happened to me some some poor minister would have been summoned to usher me into "heaven".



As an agnostic?  I'd say.. "couldn't hurt, just in case"  lol!


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## Shalimar (May 14, 2015)

Underock, hello my favourite jousting partner! While I agree that religious extremism is often responsible for many ills, so are many other forms of extremism. We are a contrary species that often enjoys killing each other, sometimes over a parking space. A totally secular world would only give rise to alternate excuses for hatred in all it's myriad guises. IMHO, we need to change the way we fundamentally think about ourselves and each other, in particular, women and children. Sadly, my experience of a relatively secular society was unpleasant. Hatred and contempt cross all boundaries. Atheism does not remove perversion or cruelty, or a secular state effectively protect against it. Often, power is it's own religion. To me, that is often where the true pathology lies.


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## AZ Jim (May 14, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> As an agnostic?  I'd say.. "couldn't hurt, just in case"  lol!



Yeah I guess you're right.....


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## Underock1 (May 14, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Underock, hello my favourite jousting partner! While I agree that religious extremism is often responsible for many ills, so are many other forms of extremism. We are a contrary species that often enjoys killing each other, sometimes over a parking space. A totally secular world would only give rise to alternate excuses for hatred in all it's myriad guises. IMHO, we need to change the way we fundamentally think about ourselves and each other, in particular, women and children. Sadly, my experience of a relatively secular society was unpleasant. Hatred and contempt cross all boundaries. Atheism does not remove perversion or cruelty, or a secular state effectively protect against it. Often, power is it's own religion. To me, that is often where the true pathology lies.



If you're saying that people are people, I go along with that. Removing the authority of an all powerful being as assumed by the self appointed interpreters of His wishes would at least eliminate one excuse. People might think a little clearer if they stopped looking for answers in the sky and payed a little more attention to the planet.


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## Underock1 (May 14, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Back in the 50's when I was in the service and they were issuing dog tags one of the pieces of info included on them along with name, branch, serial number, blood type was religion.  As I recall there were three choices, Protestant, Catholic or Jewish.  I don't think they asked if you preferred "none of the above" but I chose the Protestant rather than make an issue of it.  So, had anything have happened to me some some poor minister would have been summoned to usher me into "heaven".



In the fifties, When I applied for my first job with a major insurance company, I had to bring a recommendation letter from my minister. I tell you true.


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## Shalimar (May 14, 2015)

My, underock, we are somewhat in agreement again. Yikes! Belief in what my agnostic son refers to as a 'sky daddy', is no replacemment for tending to the ills so prevalent here on mother earth. Hmmm, I can see I may need to search further afield to find reliable subjects for our continuing tourney.lol.layful:


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## Capt Lightning (May 14, 2015)

In my youth, some 50 or 60 years ago, life in much of the west coast of Scotland  was dominated by the (largely Presbytian) church.  Even just a few years ago, life on the Western Isles was governed by the church and nothing was done on a Sunday - no shops, ferry crossings, petrol stations etc..
Having returned to Scotland - the East this time - I've found it almost totally secular.  Sunday is just another day and festivals such as Easter are largely ignored.  EXCEPT for one small village near me which has the highest number of churches per head of population in the UK.  As an athiest, living here suits me fine.


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## Underock1 (May 14, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> My, underock, we are somewhat in agreement again. Yikes! Belief in what my agnostic son refers to as a 'sky daddy', is no replacemment for tending to the ills so prevalent here on mother earth. Hmmm, I can see I may need to search further afield to find reliable subjects for our continuing tourney.lol.layful:



Now look! How are we ever going to bring peace to the planet if you insist on disagreeing with me? I know I'm right. You know I'm right. So lets be done with it! Love and peace.:love_heart:


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## Shalimar (May 14, 2015)

Underock, hmm. It appears that I may have underestimated the depth of your delusion. Due to my enormous compassion for your plight, I offer my services pro bono as your online therapist. With due diligence on both our parts, I am convinced we can uncover the root of your pathology.nthego:


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## Ameriscot (May 14, 2015)

Capt Lightning said:


> In my youth, some 50 or 60 years ago, life in much of the west coast of Scotland  was dominated by the (largely Presbytian) church.  Even just a few years ago, life on the Western Isles was governed by the church and nothing was done on a Sunday - no shops, ferry crossings, petrol stations etc..
> Having returned to Scotland - the East this time - I've found it almost totally secular.  Sunday is just another day and festivals such as Easter are largely ignored.  EXCEPT for one small village near me which has the highest number of churches per head of population in the UK.  As an athiest, living here suits me fine.



I remember a few years ago the Free Church on Lewis and Harris was furious that ferries would accommodate tourists by running on Sunday.  They were also outraged at having to perform gay marriages.  Barra and South Uist aren't nearly so bad as they are Catholic.  

I'm unlabeled but wouldn't call myself an atheist and I love it here after coming from the bible belt - Tennessee.


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## Shalimar (May 14, 2015)

Annie, I love the term unlabeled!


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## Underock1 (May 14, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Underock, hmm. It appears that I may have underestimated the depth of your delusion. Due to my enormous compassion for your plight, I offer my services pro bono as your online therapist. With due diligence on both our parts, I am convinced we can uncover the root of your pathology.nthego:



Lol! If you think in your wildest imagination, ( of which I notice you have an abundance ), that you can unravel in the few short years that I have left, a mind that I have assiduously been warping for eighty two years, I applaud you for your optimism. Wow! That's a forty six word sentence. Possibly, a personal best for my habitual run on sentences!


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## Shalimar (May 14, 2015)

Underock, you have yet to encounter the true wilds of my imagination, but I am always up for a challenge. Lol.


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## Denise1952 (May 14, 2015)

It seems to me that morals "may" have come from the teaching of Jesus, or possibly other "god figures" and would the decline in christianity go hand in hand with moral decline.  What one person thinks is a good moral, another person no longer believes.  "Love one another as I have loved you" something like that, seems a good way to live, forgiveness seems better to me as well.  

I'm just wondering about the "good morals" of yesterday, no longer applying with "maybe" the majority of folks, has to do with the horrendous atrocities that are happening more and more.  Right and wrong is now decided by each person's own brain. What they "feel" is right, rather then something like the bible to use as a map for life.  

I agree that some religions and organized I mean, are way, off track from what Christ taught.  But talking about Him, can anyone tell me anything he taught that wouldn't make us better people (more kind and loving) and ultimately more happy?  I just believe, some time, some day, some happening in our lives are going to have us crying out for God.  Although, there are, I know, people that would literally die, without asking from someone or something they can't see, for help.  I might even be one.   Guess I'll find out one day


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## Josiah (May 14, 2015)




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## Ameriscot (May 15, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Annie, I love the term unlabeled!



Aye!  When visiting my family one Xmas my (atheist) brother asked if I was still a witch (wasn't a witch but a Pagan) or was I Buddhist.  I replied I was unlabeled, an answer he enjoyed.


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## Underock1 (May 15, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Aye!  When visiting my family one Xmas my (atheist) brother asked if I was still a witch (wasn't a witch but a Pagan) or was I Buddhist.  I replied I was unlabeled, an answer he enjoyed.



I agree with Shalimar, ( sometimes happens ), "unlabeled" is great. I hate all of the technical bologna, not to mention societal baggage attached to atheist, agnostic, etc. I call myself non-believer, because its clear and describes me. "Unlabeled" is even better. Descriptive, and adds an unspoken "don't try to put me in a box" retort. I'm not a Buddhist either, but I like the way he thought.


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## Ralphy1 (May 15, 2015)

Being a Hedonist frees me from confusion on the part of others about my beliefs...


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## Shalimar (May 15, 2015)

Ralphy, you are confusing! Lol.


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## Ralphy1 (May 15, 2015)

Not really, just enjoy simple pleasures...:love_heart:


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## merlin (May 15, 2015)

"Unlabeled" is good, its what I am "an unlabeled man" 
I will say though that without religion in our cultures we would have been deprived of some wonderful buildings, which I do appreciate, some churches I have been in have a peace beyond understanding. 

Our current burgeoning religion "Capitalism" only produces monstrous buildings, where only bankers are allowed to worship at their altar/screens. I can't imagine there is much peace to be found in them either, and the wars, poverty and deaths they are causing exceeds previous religions in my opinion.


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## Ameriscot (May 15, 2015)

merlin said:


> "Unlabeled" is good, its what I am "an unlabeled man"
> I will say though that without religion in our cultures we would have been deprived of some wonderful buildings, which I do appreciate, some churches I have been in have a peace beyond understanding.
> 
> Our current burgeoning religion "Capitalism" only produces monstrous buildings, where only bankers are allowed to worship at their altar/screens. I can't imagine there is much peace to be found in them either, and the wars, poverty and deaths they are causing exceeds previous religions in my opinion.



True, we would have missed out on a lot of gorgeous architecture without churches and cathedrals.  I love to visit them.  Was awestruck by the Vatican and I haven't been catholic for nearly 50 years.


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## Josiah (May 15, 2015)

merlin said:


> Our current burgeoning religion "Capitalism" only produces monstrous buildings, where only bankers are allowed to worship at their altar/screens. I can't imagine there is much peace to be found in them either, and the wars, poverty and deaths they are causing exceeds previous religions in my opinion.



I'm inclined to agree with your judgement, but what alternative to capitalism do you suggest?


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## merlin (May 15, 2015)

Josiah said:


> I'm inclined to agree with your judgement, but what alternative to capitalism do you suggest?



I don't really have one Josiah, though I fear we have strayed too far from the middle path as the Buddhists would say, a coalition of capitalism and socialism would be the best I could come up with. We are lost in self interest and greed at the moment I fear.


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## QuickSilver (May 15, 2015)

Josiah said:


> I'm inclined to agree with your judgement, but what alternative to capitalism do you suggest?



I think he means the obvious wealth of some of the religions with regard to opulent temples and cathedrals, while claiming to be non-profit.  They are capitalists for sure


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## AZ Jim (May 15, 2015)

Churches should not be tax exempt.


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## QuickSilver (May 15, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Churches should not be tax exempt.



I don't have a problem with them being tax exempt if they are using their coffers to do good works and to help people.. However, the very second they step into the political arena and use their pulpit to promote candidates and political ideology, their tax exempt status should be removed.


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## AZ Jim (May 15, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I don't have a problem with them being tax exempt if they are using their coffers to do good works and to help people.. However, the very second they step into the political arena and use their pulpit to promote candidates and political ideology, their tax exempt status should be removed.



They all are into politics, directly or indirectly.  They are America's largest business.


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## Glinda (May 15, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Churches should not be tax exempt.



YES!  I couldn't agree more!  We should tax the **** out of them - especially those who invade my privacy by going door-to-door selling their product.


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## Underock1 (May 15, 2015)

merlin said:


> "Unlabeled" is good, its what I am "an unlabeled man"
> I will say though that without religion in our cultures we would have been deprived of some wonderful buildings, which I do appreciate, some churches I have been in have a peace beyond understanding.
> 
> Our current burgeoning religion "Capitalism" only produces monstrous buildings, where only bankers are allowed to worship at their altar/screens. I can't imagine there is much peace to be found in them either, and the wars, poverty and deaths they are causing exceeds previous religions in my opinion.



I agree with you about the architecture. Cathedrals are wonderful things. I have a David Macauley book and tape on their building. Not just Cathedrals. I love Mosques with all of their tile and marble ornament. We could include all of the rest, right back through the Greek temples, and even some of those great cave paintings may have had religious significance.

The halls of capitalism may be dull and sterile, but, modern Tokyo, China, and the Sydney Opera House are worth a look. Then there are the incredible buildings in Dubai. Capitalism gone wild. 

There's a lot to see in this world for those who look.


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## Warrigal (May 15, 2015)

> There's a lot to see in this world for those who look.



There is indeed. 
However, I would like to see churches divest themselves of their historic buildings and turn them over to the state as tourist attractions.


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