# 75 is long enough to live?



## Sunny (Jul 28, 2015)

Here's a really interesting and provocative article by Ezekiel Emmanuel, the brother of Rahm Emmanuel, the mayor of Chicago. Ezekiel is a retired oncologist and bioethicist, and this article appeared in The Atlantic last fall. He makes a compelling case, but I can think of plenty of arguments on the other side also. Check it out; I think everyone will find it interesting.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/09/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75/379329/


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## BobF (Jul 28, 2015)

Too late for me.   The wife is 85 and I am 82.


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## Warrigal (Jul 28, 2015)

He was born in 1957.
He will change his mind later.

However, I've been quite ready to die since that age of 45. Not seeking death but ready should it come. It is very liberating.


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## Don M. (Jul 28, 2015)

AGE is not the important issue....rather, Overall Health, and the ability to lead an active life...is the deciding factor.  Some people are "vegetables" by the time they reach 50...while others can stay active and functional well into their 90's.  Genetics and overall lifestyles are probably the determining factors regarding how well people age.  

The reality is...no matter how old we become...we all reach the point, eventually, where life is no longer much joy.  IMO, when that time arrives, everyone should have their wishes known...via Powers of Attorney, Living Wills, etc., and society, and the medical community should honor those wishes with "Death with Dignity" options.  There is NO need to see a persons lifetime of assets flowing to the doctors and hospitals, when there is no hope for improvement.


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## Cookie (Jul 28, 2015)

I think this guys article is rubbish.  People die when their time comes, at a variety of ages as we have all seen from a variety of causes, and I can't believe anyone really wants to die unless they are severely impaired from either mental or physical illness and life becomes too much of a struggle.  Of course many are 'prepared' with their affairs and mindsets in order, but if they are functioning and enjoying life, there are still many things to do, learn and contribute, even at an advanced age.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 28, 2015)

This is outdated for me because I know too many 75 plus years old. 

To it's simple, you don't use it you will lose it. Too many older doctors and patients are in new territory and do not know what to do or are afraid. Too many patients in particular are using their senior citizen relatives, parents, aunts, uncles etc as the basis for their decisions/lifestyle. But those older relatives were basing their lifestyle and medical choices sometimes over 50 years ago. They are trying to use 50 year old technology sometimes antiquated treatments. They fail to take advantage or take into account advances in treatment & technology or progress in fitness & nutrition. I know too many that want a procedure or pill and that's it.

What do they say time is relative?


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## Lara (Jul 28, 2015)

I have too much _purpose_ and _quality of life _left in me to think about death.

True, I'm not near 75 but my mother is 90 and still has a tremendous amount of _quality of life_ and _purpose_ left in her too. We were taking a walk uphill  the other day and I said, "My legs are a little sore, are your's, you want to head back"? She said, "Mine aren't but if you want to". She was at line-dancing today. 

Tomorrow I'll take fish tacos over there for lunch and we'll play scrabble. We go over the daily Crossword Puzzle and Jumble together every morning and she always has the crossword puzzle finished when I call. I often have some blanks left and, when she tells me the answers, my online crossword site tells me "Excellent [you're finished]". 

She entertains dinner for 4 once a month and it's on time and delicious. Grant it, it's either meatloaf & roasted veggies or chicken & roasted veggies and wine…but it's amazing. It's hard to keep up with her.


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## hollydolly (Jul 28, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> He was born in 1957.
> He will change his mind later.
> 
> *However, I've been quite ready to die since that age of 45. Not seeking death but ready should it come. It is very liberating*.




OMG I thought I was the only one...me too..


ETA...meant to say, this man is younger than me but in that picture he looks very much older than 58, so perhaps he will get his wish


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## Debby (Jul 28, 2015)

I read that article a while back and I'm in agreement with his statement here:  

I came to the decision that I'd like to go when I'm 85 after watching as my two aunts lived until they were 92.  The last six years of their lives saw them go through exactly what the articles author describes and except for the one aunts fears about her still living disabled daughter, I know she was done with this life and the other aunt's faculties had diminished just enough that life was empty and lonely and confusing to her.



"...But here is a simple truth that many of us seem to resist: living too long is also a loss. It renders many of us, if not disabled, then faltering and declining, a state that may not be worse than death but is nonetheless deprived. It robs us of our creativity and ability to contribute to work, society, the world. It transforms how people experience us, relate to us, and, most important, remember us. We are no longer remembered as vibrant and engaged but as feeble, ineffectual, even pathetic....'


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## Debby (Jul 28, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> OMG I thought I was the only one...me too..
> 
> 
> ETA...meant to say, this man is younger than me but in that picture he looks very much older than 58, so perhaps he will get his wish




I don't know Holly.  He just climbed Mt. Killimanjaro recently (according to the article) so I think he'll be around for a while.  Personally I don't think he looks a lot older than 58.  Thinning hair can give that impression but his face looks great and he has a really engaging smile.


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## Sunny (Jul 28, 2015)

I agree with every word Don said. It is the quality of life that should matter not some arbitrary age. I live in a seniors-only community (55 plus) and see tremendous variations in people. Some are still
frisky and enjoying life into their 90's; others are already old by 60.


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## hollydolly (Jul 28, 2015)

Debby said:


> I don't know Holly.  He just climbed Mt. Killimanjaro recently (according to the article) so I think he'll be around for a while.  Personally I don't think he looks a lot older than 58.  Thinning hair can give that impression but his face looks great and he has a really engaging smile.



Perhaps it's just that he is roughly the same age as me, hubby and all my friends and he looks so much older than them, but perhaps my friends all look young for their age ...but in all seriousness I only skimmed through the article, altho' I did read the part about Kilimanjaro...I will read it through properly later..


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## AZ Jim (Jul 28, 2015)

I am 66 days from turning 79.  As a young man I never expected to be here this long.  I need to live to care for my wife but I do not fear death.  My only fear would be to be disabled by stroke and not only not able to do things I need to do, but be a worry to her.  Several  times I have wished I had no reason to stay longer.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 28, 2015)

I'm 77 and will be 78 Aug 3rd.....I don't know why I'm still here but the sure the 10 year and 17 year (Guardian) have a lot to do with it.


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## Shirley (Jul 28, 2015)

Don M. said:


> AGE is not the important issue....rather, Overall Health, and the ability to lead an active life...is the deciding factor.  Some people are "vegetables" by the time they reach 50...while others can stay active and functional well into their 90's.  Genetics and overall lifestyles are probably the determining factors regarding how well people age.
> 
> The reality is...no matter how old we become...we all reach the point, eventually, where life is no longer much joy.  IMO, when that time arrives, everyone should have their wishes known...via Powers of Attorney, Living Wills, etc., and society, and the medical community should honor those wishes with "Death with Dignity" options.  There is NO need to see a persons lifetime of assets flowing to the doctors and hospitals, when there is no hope for improvement.



I agree. But as long as there is even one thing left to enjoy, a good book, a good meal, children's laughter; life is worth living.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 28, 2015)

Shirley said:


> I agree. But as long as there is even one thing left to enjoy, a good book, a good meal, children's laughter; life is worth living.



Exactly!  I feel like I'm just getting started!


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## AZ Jim (Jul 28, 2015)

Shirley said:


> I agree. But as long as there is even one thing left to enjoy, a good book, a good meal, children's laughter; life is worth living.



You left out one of the nicest things to enjoy.....


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## Falcon (Jul 28, 2015)

Of course Jim.  An evening at the ballet.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 28, 2015)

Falcon said:


> Of course Jim.  An evening at the ballet.



John you are evil.  *lol*  I was thinking of cocktails.


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## Shirley (Jul 28, 2015)

I think Falcon is trying to hit on me.


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## Butterfly (Jul 28, 2015)

Don M. said:


> AGE is not the important issue....rather, Overall Health, and the ability to lead an active life...is the deciding factor.  Some people are "vegetables" by the time they reach 50...while others can stay active and functional well into their 90's.  Genetics and overall lifestyles are probably the determining factors regarding how well people age.
> 
> The reality is...no matter how old we become...we all reach the point, eventually, where life is no longer much joy.  IMO, when that time arrives, everyone should have their wishes known...via Powers of Attorney, Living Wills, etc., and society, and the medical community should honor those wishes with "Death with Dignity" options.  There is NO need to see a persons lifetime of assets flowing to the doctors and hospitals, when there is no hope for improvement.



I agree with you, Don.  I've known people who were done with life at 40, and others who were still enjoying life in their 90s.  Much of enjoyment of life is attitude, and it's silly to put a number on how long your life will be enjoyable to you.  Such things might become a self-fulfilling prophecy.  AND, despite what the author opines, many people still live fulfilling lives with a functional disability.  I don't like the tone or premise of the article at all.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 28, 2015)

Butterfly has it wired.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 29, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> I agree with you, Don.  I've known people who were done with life at 40, and others who were still enjoying life in their 90s.  Much of enjoyment of life is attitude, and it's silly to put a number on how long your life will be enjoyable to you.  Such things might become a self-fulfilling prophecy.  AND, despite what the author opines, many people still live fulfilling lives with a functional disability.  I don't like the tone or premise of the article at all.



self-fulfilling prophecy 

Says ALOT. Most realize there is a point in life where things simply won't be the same anymore. This isn't just about an older person trying to do younger person stuff.  It could be a divorce, death, loss of job etc. May be life is supposed to wear one down and that's how nature thins the herd. 

I heard an anthropologist years ago say by the time one has graying hair and/or alot of other signs of aging that is a sign nature is done with you. The gray could mean weak prey to a predator. Stuff like loosing teeth could be to starve or weaken a person for a predator. Same for declining eye sight, how can one see approaching predators or danger. That being said humans have adapted and overcome that physically but not mentally. Aging has become a biased forced narrative. Out with the old in with the new. It's not true but it's seen that way.


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## Warrigal (Jul 29, 2015)

Whatinthe, to biologists it is a mystery that women live beyond menopause until they notice that grandmothers tend  to help their offspring to raise their offspring. The survival of humans tends to depend on co-operation and the ability to form groups. In these groups experience and wisdom is an asset and a resource. The young have need of the old in human society.

Even in our last stages of life we have something to offer. In the end all we have to offer is our helplessness and our need. These call out the very best of the humanity of those who care for us. Love and compassion are human qualities that are essential for civilised societies and we dispose of the elderly to society's detriment IMO.


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## Ralphy1 (Jul 30, 2015)

What is long enough is a year older than you are...


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## Linda (Jul 30, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> He was born in 1957.
> He will change his mind later.
> 
> However, I've been quite ready to die since that age of 45. Not seeking death but ready should it come. It is very liberating.



I agree, I'm not seeking death but I am ready to go.  Except (and I'm serious about this) I really would like to unclutter my house and clean it up good first.


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## Susie (Jul 30, 2015)

What's all this rubbish about not living beyond age 75?
Encouraging the happy heirs to poison your tea, so they may enjoy the fruits of your labor?
Ghoulish, to say the least!
And yes, what about the "ballet"!
Hope all of you are enjoying every last drop of life!!!   :bigwink:


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## Meanderer (Jul 30, 2015)

A full life is not measured in years.


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## Linda (Jul 30, 2015)

I think there will be a lot of good things to do AFTER we die also.  And I don't believe it'll just be sitting on a cloud playing a harp.


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## ndynt (Aug 2, 2015)

Although I do not agree completely with the author's viewpoint, I can so relate to some of it.   A few months ago I was wondering about why I was still alive.  Basically bed-bound.  wasting Medicare's money on very expensive medications...for what reason?    
Now, after regimen of natural supplements  I miraculously have a new lease on life and view things differently.  I am stronger, can walk, exercise, have a exuberant sense of well-being.  People are amazed, say I just glow...and I have even acquired a romantic interest.  So, of course my view of life has changed as drastically as my health.
 A few months ago I was a too old 81 year old...that pondered stopping all meds and letting nature take its course.  Today, I wake up every morning full of live...anxious to exercise and start a new wonderful day.   Another example.. there is not a "too old" age....rather what the quality of that life is.


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## WhatInThe (Aug 2, 2015)

Linda said:


> I agree, I'm not seeking death but I am ready to go.  Except (and I'm serious about this) I really would like to unclutter my house and clean it up good first.



Know and am dealing with an undiagnosed disabled hoarder now. They absolutely refuse to unclutter. They always been offered and have had help but there is always an excuse for not going through stuff let alone get rid of it in some fashion. Were talking 6 ft high piles of stuff and boxes. Disorganization, clutter and/or just a lot of stuff. They even warn you during a visit remember where you put something but it's very easy to lose something here.

Point is getting legal & financial affairs in order are one thing but yes getting rid of you stuff is important especially if something happens suddenly for if no other reason the survivors will literally and figuratively get see all of your dirty laundry. It could be physical things, evidence of an affair, a lie or how you actually lived behind closed doors. The hoarder I mention is also worried about their legacy, they actually said they want to be remembered. Better get cracking and clean up YOUR freaking mess then NOW!.


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## Lon (Aug 2, 2015)

Well known Carl Reiner at 93 who is looking and acting fantastic would certainly think that the 70's is too soon to go, and me at 81 figure I have 15 years or so of productivity.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 2, 2015)

Lon said:


> Well known Carl Reiner at 93 who is looking and acting fantastic would certainly think that the 70's is too soon to go, and me at 81 figure I have 15 years or so of productivity.



I'm thinking - optimistically maybe - that I've got a minimum of 20 more years.  I'm 63.  If I'm healthy and fit, I'm hoping for 30 more.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 2, 2015)

A day at a time.  75 wasn't long enough.


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## Linda (Aug 2, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Know and am dealing with an undiagnosed disabled hoarder now. They absolutely refuse to unclutter. They always been offered and have had help but there is always an excuse for not going through stuff let alone get rid of it in some fashion. Were talking 6 ft high piles of stuff and boxes. Disorganization, clutter and/or just a lot of stuff. They even warn you during a visit remember where you put something but it's very easy to lose something here.
> 
> Point is getting legal & financial affairs in order are one thing but yes getting rid of you stuff is important especially if something happens suddenly for if no other reason the survivors will literally and figuratively get see all of your dirty laundry. It could be physical things, evidence of an affair, a lie or how you actually lived behind closed doors. The hoarder I mention is also worried about their legacy, they actually said they want to be remembered. Better get cracking and clean up YOUR freaking mess then NOW!.



I've seen places like that WhatInThe but I assure you, my situation isn't like that.  I don't even have any piles except on my desk.   I just need to go through stuff and get rid of a whole lot.  I've given a lot away or sold it in yard sales already.  My husband has been getting rid of things out of his shop.  We just don't need all that stuff anymore.


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## drifter (Aug 2, 2015)

I'm with you Shirley.


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## Warrigal (Aug 2, 2015)

So pleased to hear of your recovered zest for life, Nona. 
You've just received a bonus, and good luck to you with the romance.
Enjoy the feeling while it lasts and enhances your days.


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## Kitties (Aug 2, 2015)

75 might be too long for me. But I'll have no control over it.


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## Shalimar (Aug 2, 2015)

Nona. What an inspiration! Enjoy your rejuvinated life, and new love. How romantic, I am choked up. Hugs.


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## tnthomas (Aug 2, 2015)

My uncle, who is 89 told me that he still enjoyed running his business in Georgia at age 83. But, with his wife needing full time care he sold everything and moved to Colorado to be near his daughter.  

I  want to continue working until age 75, and if all goes well maybe live another 15 years after that.


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## Underock1 (Aug 2, 2015)

I've been saying I should have died at 75 for seven years now. I have a large group portrait of my family hanging on my wall. It was taken when I was just short of that age. My wife and myself, our two sons, our daughter-in law, and our twin grandsons. Everyone in it is in perfect health, happy, and doing well. If I had died then, my life would have been as perfect as it could ever be.
 My wife is now gone, after three years of running her to dialysis three times a week. My younger son died after weeks of emotional turmoil from previously unsuspected alchoholism. My other son went through a nasty and ruinous divorce. Our daughter-in-law alienated her sons in the process, and ended a long, loving relationship with us. I, myself, am now hard of hearing, have developed ideopathic, peripheral neuropothy in my legs, and now walk perilously with the use of a cane. Every simple little task of daily living has become a  physical challenge. 
I am still able to care for myself. I still drive well. I see my son and grandsons. I still have some interests, but my life doesn't compare with when I was 75. No. I am not depressed or suicidal. Just making a realistic appraisal.


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## ndynt (Aug 3, 2015)

Underock....can so relate.  I so wish that your health, especially walking and activities of daily living, could be resolved...as mine has.  So sorry to hear of your great losses.  Son, wife and the relationship with your grandsons.  Is it not wonderful to now have the extended family with SF though?

Drifter, nice blog.  Love your family pic.  Look like a happy and fun loving group..... Especially right after that very long trip/flight. 

Thank you, DW and Shalimar.   Who would have thought my life could turn around so drastically.  With only supplements and my social life limited to medical appts and deliveries by the Fed Ex man.:bigwink:  So of course, who else would I meet but a Doctor.  A few months ago I thought it would be the undertaker LOL


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## Ameriscot (Aug 3, 2015)

ndynt said:


> Underock....can so relate.  I so wish that your health, especially walking and activities of daily living, could be resolved...as mine has.  So sorry to hear of your great losses.  Son, wife and the relationship with your grandsons.  Is it not wonderful to now have the extended family with SF though?
> 
> Drifter, nice blog.  Love your family pic.  Look like a happy and fun loving group..... Especially right after that very long trip/flight.
> 
> Thank you, DW and Shalimar.   Who would have thought my life could turn around so drastically.  With only supplements and my social life limited to medical appts and deliveries by the Fed Ex man.:bigwink:  So of course, who else would I meet but a Doctor.  A few months ago I thought it would be the undertaker LOL



Glad you are doing so much better, Nona!


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## WhatInThe (Aug 3, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> I've been saying I should have died at 75 for seven years now. I have a large group portrait of my family hanging on my wall. It was taken when I was just short of that age. My wife and myself, our two sons, our daughter-in law, and our twin grandsons. Everyone in it is in perfect health, happy, and doing well. If I had died then, my life would have been as perfect as it could ever be.
> My wife is now gone, after three years of running her to dialysis three times a week. My younger son died after weeks of emotional turmoil from previously unsuspected alchoholism. My other son went through a nasty and ruinous divorce. Our daughter-in-law alienated her sons in the process, and ended a long, loving relationship with us. I, myself, am now hard of hearing, have developed ideopathic, peripheral neuropothy in my legs, and now walk perilously with the use of a cane. Every simple little task of daily living has become a  physical challenge.
> I am still able to care for myself. I still drive well. I see my son and grandsons. I still have some interests, but my life doesn't compare with when I was 75. No. I am not depressed or suicidal. Just making a realistic appraisal.



Belated condolences for your son. Your not the only family with a lot of stuff going on. In some respects current events confirm early suspicions and explain a lot of things. I look at it as a form of clarity. They say the test of time is one of the ultimate tests. Sounds like you are winning if you want to call it that. Also sound like survivor and realist/pragmatist. Time has rewarded many with patience and the will to start things like joining a gym and working out for their first time in their mid 70s. And learning about computers and internet. Stay well.


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## Underock1 (Aug 3, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Belated condolences for your son. Your not the only family with a lot of stuff going on. In some respects current events confirm early suspicions and explain a lot of things. I look at it as a form of clarity. They say the test of time is one of the ultimate tests. Sounds like you are winning if you want to call it that. Also sound like survivor and realist/pragmatist. Time has rewarded many with patience and the will to start things like joining a gym and working out for their first time in their mid 70s. And learning about computers and internet. Stay well.



Thank you or your kind words. Realist/Pragmatist. Yes! Finally someone who gets me. You're very good. Usually, I get "unhealthy attitude", or "Your such a pessimist." Oddly enough, I am also an incurable romantic. Can't get much further away from "realist" than that!


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## Underock1 (Aug 3, 2015)

Linda said:


> I think there will be a lot of good things to do AFTER we die also.  And I don't believe it'll just be sitting on a cloud playing a harp.


 Yes! I'm looking forward to that long nap! fftobed:


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## hollydolly (Aug 3, 2015)

Kitties said:


> 75 might be too long for me. But I'll have no control over it.



Oh dear *kitties,* what's wrong?..are you ill ?


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## Underock1 (Aug 3, 2015)

Thank you for your kind words, nydnt. Yes. The forum does help fill the time. Interesting to see the many facets to people.
Just when you think you know who they are, they will post something totally out of what you pictured as their character.


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## Shalimar (Aug 3, 2015)

Kitties, is something wrong?


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