# Why Does Modern Medicine Have a Problem with Natural Healing



## jaminhealth (May 25, 2018)

Maybe we can get some discussion going here.  Or some thought provoking going on.

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/...icine-have-a-big-problem-with-natural-health/


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## JaniceM (May 25, 2018)

jaminhealth said:


> Maybe we can get some discussion going here.  Or some thought provoking going on.
> 
> https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/...icine-have-a-big-problem-with-natural-health/



Because natural healing doesn't result in big bucks for pharmaceutical companies and greedy 'health care' providers.


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## Lethe200 (May 25, 2018)

I think Western institutional medicine has a difficult time with alternative medicine simply because it works on different principles.

In Western medicine, it treats symptoms, using intervention. Cholesterol or BP too high - take a pill. Heart attack - angioplasty, stent, or bypass. 

Alternative medicine tends to be holistic. They want to work with the body's energies, and gently balance it back to equilibrium.

We use both. It's one of the major reasons why we are happy to live where we do and why we would be reluctant to leave. There is a wealth of practitioners of all schools and cultures to choose from. Our HMO doctors are puzzled by, but not against, the alternative therapies we use to assist the Western medicine. 

The downside is that it is expensive. Insurance will not cover most alternative medicine.


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## Keesha (May 25, 2018)

Lethe200 said:


> I think Western institutional medicine has a difficult time with alternative medicine simply because it works on different principles.
> 
> In Western medicine, it treats symptoms, using intervention. Cholesterol or BP too high - take a pill. Heart attack - angioplasty, stent, or bypass.
> 
> ...


Yes indeed. Where we live conventional medical tests & treatments are paid for by the government so using both options is the most logical thing to do, for us. Our insurance covers most alternative therapies.


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## rgp (May 25, 2018)

Lethe200 said:


> I think Western institutional medicine has a difficult time with alternative medicine simply because it works on different principles.
> 
> In Western medicine, it treats symptoms, using intervention. Cholesterol or BP too high - take a pill. Heart attack - angioplasty, stent, or bypass.
> 
> ...




 The trouble is....as I see it....So any of the alternative / naturopathic   ways are slow. Not saying that they do not work...not saying that they are way off base...just saying that IMO the are likely something we should have started years ago....When we were young. As such, do we have time for that approach to be effective? yield a positive ?? 

I believe there are many here, that know much more than I....hopefully they'll respond ?


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## Aunt Bea (May 25, 2018)

JaniceM said:


> Because natural healing doesn't result in big bucks for pharmaceutical companies and greedy 'health care' providers.



I agree.

Also, it seems that when we have any type of problem we feel the need to take some sort of immediate action.

I'm a firm believer in watchful waiting or observation to see if things improve/heal with time, rest and proper nutrition or if they get worse.


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## jaminhealth (May 25, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Yes indeed. Where we live conventional medical tests & treatments are paid for by the government so using both options is the most logical thing to do, for us. Our insurance covers most alternative therapies.



Do you use supplements, they aren't covered insurance are they?  I spend a good deal for my good health and do use both, but very little drugs...BP and thyroid.   Worth every penny I spend.  You can't put a price on good health.   j


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## jaminhealth (May 25, 2018)

rgp said:


> The trouble is....as I see it....So any of the alternative / naturopathic   ways are slow. Not saying that they do not work...not saying that they are way off base...just saying that IMO the are likely something we should have started years ago....When we were young. As such, do we have time for that approach to be effective? yield a positive ??
> 
> I believe there are many here, that know much more than I....hopefully they'll respond ?



When I was young I didn't need supplements, I was strong and able and did so much,,,I started supplements after menopause so that was in my early 50's....So much body changes with menopause.

Getting on Grape Seed Ex in 1995, got me out of allergist office and his injections and all the allergy drugs...haven't touched one in 23 yrs.  I was 57.


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## jaminhealth (May 25, 2018)

JaniceM said:


> Because natural healing doesn't result in big bucks for pharmaceutical companies and greedy 'health care' providers.



Yes, I see my MD once or twice a year if need be and that is to check in get my refills for my 2 meds and she checks me out.  My doctors arrive in a cardboard box from my supplement companies.   If something comes up that I can't remedy, then I'll go to a doc.  Right now I deal with a narley knee and avoiding knee surgery,, long long story.


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## RadishRose (May 25, 2018)

It's a fight on both sides to get the most money. Both are greedy!


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## jaminhealth (May 25, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> It's a fight on both sides to get the most money. Both are greedy!



Well, we'll disagree on that one.  Pharma will win big with $$$, the modern medical world.  Many would love to do more alternatives like acupuncture for example and many can't afford a lot of alternative therapies.  I'd love to do PRP for my knee and can't afford it, insurance does not pay any of that work.  But pharma is ready to insure surgeries.   Everyone is in business to make money.


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## Lethe200 (Jun 2, 2018)

rgp said:


> The trouble is....as I see it....So any of the alternative / naturopathic   ways are slow. Not saying that they do not work...not saying that they are way off base...just saying that IMO the are likely something we should have started years ago....When we were young. As such, do we have time for that approach to be effective? yield a positive ??
> 
> I believe there are many here, that know much more than I....hopefully they'll respond ?



Alternative medicine does work more slowly. The trouble for most Westerners is they only try to use an acupuncturist, for example, after they've tried everything else that hasn't worked, so the delay in starting holistic treatment is substantial. By that time their system is so out of whack, it takes even longer for the natural healing balance to be restored.

Also, most expect the "one and done" treatment. They aren't always prepared for the idea of coming back once a week for a month, out of pocket. And it's NOT a permanent cure. The imbalance was caused by something specific, and if you insist upon doing the same things that caused the imbalance once, it is likely to eventually happen again. 

Since retiring, we have standing monthly appointments with our acupuncturist and acupressurist for sessions. We feel it's a good investment in our health, but we are lucky to be able to afford it.


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## AZ Jim (Jun 2, 2018)

jaminhealth said:


> Maybe we can get some discussion going here.  Or some thought provoking going on.
> 
> https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/...icine-have-a-big-problem-with-natural-health/


The answer is obvious, natural healing costs the medical world Billions!!!


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## jaminhealth (Jun 2, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> The answer is obvious, natural healing costs the medical world Billions!!!



No Jim  the total opposite...it costs the medical world nothing, we the people pay for our holistic healing.   Were you aware there are some 244,000 deaths annually from drug interactions..and that is a conservative number as we are not sure what many people end  up dying from.

https://idmprogram.com/the-corruption-of-evidence-based-medicine-killing-for-profit/

https://idmprogram.com/corruption-academic-medicine/


On another health group I'm a member we have a LONG thread going on preventing alzheimers...there is a huge caregiver group and it's sickening to read the pathetic stories of taking care of loved ones with dementia/alzheimers.

There is so much WE can do to help prevent this DREAD ending of one's life.  I want to leave with my mind, thank you.


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## jaminhealth (Jun 2, 2018)

Lethe200 said:


> Alternative medicine does work more slowly. The trouble for most Westerners is they only try to use an acupuncturist, for example, after they've tried everything else that hasn't worked, so the delay in starting holistic treatment is substantial. By that time their system is so out of whack, it takes even longer for the natural healing balance to be restored.
> 
> Also, most expect the "one and done" treatment. They aren't always prepared for the idea of coming back once a week for a month, out of pocket. And it's NOT a permanent cure. The imbalance was caused by something specific, and if you insist upon doing the same things that caused the imbalance once, it is likely to eventually happen again.
> 
> Since retiring, we have standing monthly appointments with our acupuncturist and acupressurist for sessions. We feel it's a good investment in our health, but we are lucky to be able to afford it.



I've been taking supplements for well over 25 yrs, paying out of my pocket...no insurance pays for my approach to healing...but it works FOR ME and can work for many many older people and especially with our aging...who wants to end up with alz/dementia.   Just Grape Seed Extract by itself can work on amyloid plaque reduction in the brain.

Pharma drugs only mask the issues, do not get the root of the real issues that are causing the health conditions...don't you see that folks.


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## connect1 (Jun 4, 2018)

JaniceM said:


> Because natural healing doesn't result in big bucks for pharmaceutical companies and greedy 'health care' providers.



Exactly


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## StarSong (Jun 4, 2018)

I'm truly puzzled by this thread.  Modern doctors don't embrace "natural healing"?  That's not my experience at all.  The doctors I've known (socially and as a patient) over the past 15 years almost unfailingly emphasize the following before getting out their prescription pads:

1. Stop smoking
2. Cut way down on alcohol consumption, better yet, quit drinking altogether
3. Get your weight under control, a healthy BMI is 25 or less
4. Get some real exercise and make it a daily habit 
5. Eat far less meat, eggs and dairy, and more fruits and vegetables
6. Ditch the high-fat and fast food habits
7. Dramatically cut your sugar and artificial sweetener intake
8. Regularly do some yoga or meditation to relieve stress
9. Sleep 7-8 hours a night
And finally: 
10. Please don't think I'm buying your stories of how steadfastly you're following 1-9 above. The aggregate of your results (general skeletomuscular appearance, weight, blood & urine test results, stamina, and blood pressure numbers) give away the truth.  Some people may indeed do all of the above and still have a problem with one or two health issues, but not all of their markers will be out of line.  

All of these practices help our bodies to heal naturally.  Unfortunately most people (Americans, at least) want an easy fix or a pill to solve their health issues.  So patients who don't follow their doctors' "natural healing" advice are prescribed meds.  What should these doctors do?  Let these patients die because they eat McDonald's junk every day?

p.s.  I am not generally a fan of Big Pharma and avoid taking meds whenever possible.


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## ClassicRockr (Jun 4, 2018)

For some, natural healing just doesn't work, or work as well. Depending on the injury or whatever, seeing a doctor and getting a prescription is the only way to go. There are times that waiting to "see what happens" with an injury can make the injury worse.

My past experience: a few years as an EMT (back in the 70's) and working in Senior Healthcare for 4 1/2 years.


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## jaminhealth (Jun 4, 2018)

StarSong's info is all very important and logical and sensible, but we have a lazy population and highly processed food industries.  

I take a very few meds, BP and thyroid and work with supplements to help slow down aging and manage the arthritis that has come to visit my body and never left.

We have a thread going on another group I'm a member, Are Americans Overmedicated??


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## StarSong (Jun 4, 2018)

jaminhealth said:


> StarSong's info is all very important and logical and sensible, but we have a lazy population and highly processed food industries.
> 
> I take a very few meds, BP and thyroid and work with supplements to help slow down aging and manage the arthritis that has come to visit my body and never left.
> 
> We have a thread going on another group I'm a member, Are Americans Overmedicated??



My puzzlement continues.  Jamin, are you suggesting modern medicine is to blame for a population that some perceive to be too lazy or unmotivated to employ the "natural healing" their doctors recommend?  Or that it's physically difficult to avoid placing potato chips or bacon in our carts rather than beans or produce?  

Doctors can only drag us horses to the water, they can't make us to choose to drink it rather than Big Gulp sized cups of Coca Cola.


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## jaminhealth (Jun 4, 2018)

I don't see a puzzle here...I don't go to allopathic MD's and I don't know what they talk about with their patients...in the 10-15 minute appts.  I know they have that pad ready to write drugs and a lot walk out with scripts and then end up dealing with all the side effects and then working to withdraw from the drugs.  And yes I guess many do OK, I take ibuprofen for OA and would LOVE not to...arthritis has been in my body for over 60 yrs and it has not reversed.  But I work with supplements to manage it all.


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## Shalimar (Jun 4, 2018)

Cayenne cured my bleeding ulcers when conventional meds failed.


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## TarheelGal (Jun 4, 2018)

Much natural healing is not science-based.


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## jaminhealth (Jun 4, 2018)

Science doesn't tell me and help me with my body ... trying all that is out there and getting benefits or not.  I research everything but science is not doing it for me.  Science is finally seeing the benefits of Grape Seed Extract as some cancer research clinics are using it in cancer research of at least 4 cancer models.

The grape and all it's nutrients (skins, seeds, oils) are not a product of science...Nature.

Science and pharma lost me as a buyer of their drugs for allergy/sinus issues when I found Grape Seed Ex decades ago.  They don't want more to heal themselves...they lose our business for their drugs.


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## StarSong (Jun 4, 2018)

jaminhealth said:


> Science doesn't tell me and help me with my body ... trying all that is out there and getting benefits or not.  I research everything but science is not doing it for me.  Science is finally seeing the benefits of Grape Seed Extract as some cancer research clinics are using it in cancer research of at least 4 cancer models.
> 
> The grape and all it's nutrients (skins, seeds, oils) are not a product of science...Nature.
> 
> Science and pharma lost me as a buyer of their drugs for allergy/sinus issues when I found Grape Seed Ex decades ago.  They don't want more to heal themselves...they lose our business for their drugs.



Why not just eat a handful of grapes with seeds everyday instead of the adulterated extract form of the same thing?  I'm truly interested and not being sarcastic.


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## jaminhealth (Jun 4, 2018)

StarSong said:


> Why not just eat a handful of grapes with seeds everyday instead of the adulterated extract form of the same thing?  I'm truly interested and not being sarcastic.



Find some grapes with seeds TODAY, unless you have your own vines.  Plus you would have to eat large amounts of grapes with high sugar...I'm not being sarcastic either, but I've been working with Grape Seed EX for over 20 yrs....

And when our grapes had seeds, everyone spit out the most valuable part of the grape, the seeds...full of nutrients, antioxidants.  So the grape industry brought on seedless grapes and the seeds are going into this powerful antioxidant for one thing.

https://www.dietspotlight.com/grapeseed-extract/


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## StarSong (Jun 4, 2018)

jaminhealth said:


> Find some grapes with seeds TODAY, unless you have your own vines.  Plus you would have to eat large amounts of grapes with high sugar...I'm not being sarcastic either, but I've been working with Grape Seed EX for over 20 yrs....
> 
> And when our grapes had seeds, everyone spit out the most valuable part of the grape, the seeds...full of nutrients, antioxidants.  So the grape industry brought on seedless grapes and the seeds are going into this powerful antioxidant for one thing.



I'm glad that you've found something that helps keep you healthy.  We each only get one body so it's important to figure out how to best maintain it.  A whole food plant based diet works for my body as well as my soul.


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## jaminhealth (Jun 4, 2018)

And the main comment that GOT ME back in 1995 when it was coming into the U.S. from France, MAY PREVENT CANCERS....


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## Don M. (Jun 4, 2018)

Maintaining good health requires a life-long commitment.  One cannot abuse their bodies for decades, then expect that some prescription drug is going to be a "cure all".  There is NO substitute for proper diet and exercise.  Supplements can be of benefit in reducing many minor issues...especially if they are taken as a Preventative measure, Before some major illness develops.  However, like anything else, a bit of research, beforehand, to target a specific condition is probably of more value than just loading up with various vitamins, etc.  If a person's ancestry shows a propensity for certain conditions, they are wise to explore any options that might help keep them from meeting the same fate.


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## AprilSun (Jun 4, 2018)

jaminhealth said:


> Find some grapes with seeds TODAY, unless you have your own vines.  Plus you would have to eat large amounts of grapes with high sugar...I'm not being sarcastic either, but I've been working with Grape Seed EX for over 20 yrs....
> 
> And when our grapes had seeds, everyone spit out the most valuable part of the grape, the seeds...full of nutrients, antioxidants.  So the grape industry brought on seedless grapes and the seeds are going into this powerful antioxidant for one thing.
> 
> https://www.dietspotlight.com/grapeseed-extract/



This article states that it took 4 to 6 months before benefits were shown. Did it take this long for you jaminhealth?


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## jaminhealth (Jun 4, 2018)

AprilSun said:


> This article states that it took 4 to 6 months before benefits were shown. Did it take this long for you jaminhealth?



For me it took less than a week to get rid of years of allergy and sinus meds and NEVER to go to an allergist again.   But to be honest I started with Pycnogenol and then went to Grape Seed Extract after some months.  Grape Seed Ex is less money.  

I didn't even go on this antioxidant for the allergy issues, I went on it as I heard "may prevent cancers"....and then surprise, allergies gone.

AprilSun, I'm not sure what you want to know took 4-6 months.   Grape Seed Ex addresses SO MUCH in our bodies, so so much.


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## AprilSun (Jun 5, 2018)

jaminhealth said:


> For me it took less than a week to get rid of years of allergy and sinus meds and NEVER to go to an allergist again.   But to be honest I started with Pycnogenol and then went to Grape Seed Extract after some months.  Grape Seed Ex is less money.
> 
> I didn't even go on this antioxidant for the allergy issues, I went on it as I heard "may prevent cancers"....and then surprise, allergies gone.
> 
> AprilSun, I'm not sure what you want to know took 4-6 months.   Grape Seed Ex addresses SO MUCH in our bodies, so so much.



From what I understood, it was saying it took 4 to 6 months for people to notice ANY differences including allergies. I just wondered if it was true because it doesn't seem like people would take it that long and it not showing any improvement for them. I was asking to see if it took that long for you to notice a difference including your allergies but you have answered my question and I do appreciate it. Thanks!


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## Lara (Jun 5, 2018)

> Why Does Modern Medicine Have a Problem With Natural Healing?


$$$$$$$$


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## jaminhealth (Jun 5, 2018)

AprilSun said:


> From what I understood, it was saying it took 4 to 6 months for people to notice ANY differences including allergies. I just wondered if it was true because it doesn't seem like people would take it that long and it not showing any improvement for them. I was asking to see if it took that long for you to notice a difference including your allergies but you have answered my question and I do appreciate it. Thanks!



I didn't read that link so much as I just found it after 23 yrs on Grape Seed Ex...I seem to find a new link almost every day if I look...there are so many.

Everyone is different and as I said my first encounter 23 yrs ago was Pycnogenol and honestly I was off years of meds in such a short time...this was my experience.   And one has to take Enough for their bodyweight...higher dosing is called a loading dose to start with for chronic issues....

And as far as $$$$, I'm thrilled to be off pharma drugs and paying $$$ to pharma for their bandaids.....they do not get to the root of our issues...no way.  

Again everyone will find a difference and change when they do.  If you have any other questions, I'm here.   J


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## AprilSun (Jun 5, 2018)

jaminhealth said:


> I didn't read that link so much as I just found it after 23 yrs on Grape Seed Ex...I seem to find a new link almost every day if I look...there are so many.
> 
> Everyone is different and as I said my first encounter 23 yrs ago was Pycnogenol and honestly I was off years of meds in such a short time...this was my experience.   And one has to take Enough for their bodyweight...higher dosing is called a loading dose to start with for chronic issues....
> 
> ...



Thank you for this information. I have 100mg ordered. I am sensitive to medications and supplements so I have to start out slow or I get overdosed very quick and easy. That's why I ordered the 100 mg. Hopefully, since it is good for so many things, I hope I can take it and it helps especially with my allergies. Thanks again!


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## jaminhealth (Jun 5, 2018)

AprilSun said:


> Thank you for this information. I have 100mg ordered. I am sensitive to medications and supplements so I have to start out slow or I get overdosed very quick and easy. That's why I ordered the 100 mg. Hopefully, since it is good for so many things, I hope I can take it and it helps especially with my allergies. Thanks again!



Good idea and if you can tolerate 100mg, some days take 200mg.  I tolerate supps very well...and many take on empty stomach and I have no problem, but if you do, take with foods...  Hope to hear good things.  j


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## AprilSun (Jun 5, 2018)

jaminhealth said:


> Good idea and if you can tolerate 100mg, some days take 200mg.  I tolerate supps very well...and many take on empty stomach and I have no problem, but if you do, take with foods...  Hope to hear good things.  j



Oh, I will. I learned a long time ago to take it slow and easy. For example, I can take 1 a day of 1200 mg. fish oil and 1 a day of 550 mg of Ginger Root without no problems but if I increase the fish oil to two a day, I'm asking for trouble and that's what I get. That's the way I am if I try to take allergy pills daily.  I thought when I start with the grape seed extract, I will leave off the fish oil and ginger root at least for a while and see how I do without them but with the extract. Anything I take if I take it, is all trial and error. The brand I ordered has a lot of good reviews from several different web sites that are not selling it, saying it helped them with their allergies so I hope it does help me.


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## Olivia (Jun 5, 2018)

But first you have to know what is causing your condition. If I have a lump in my breast or I have a cough that lasts for months, blood in my urine, etc. what I do about those things? To me, both should work together.  To not ever use medical science seems short sighted to me.


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## jaminhealth (Jun 5, 2018)

Often we'll never know.  I deal with bodywide arthritis and who knows why FOR SURE, genetics, wear and tear from a lot of movement in my life, sugar/carbs...maybe all.  For me, it's managing what is.  For many issues a visit to doctor is needed, but I don't run to them for every issue...


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