# Should Planned Parenthood be defunded?



## Ralphy1 (Aug 4, 2015)

It is under attack again for videos showing the sale of fetal tissue.  The Senate voted not to try and defund and the prez said that he would veto any legislation on this matter, so it will probably never happen.  Planned Parenthood provides a variety of good services but perhaps further scrutiny of this concern should be authorized...


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 4, 2015)

This nonsense is only another example of the unrelenting attack on women..  particularly poor women.   I see another government shutdown orchestrated by the GOP coming to a theater near you..


----------



## Ralphy1 (Aug 4, 2015)

Not sure that another shutdown will happen, as it could backfire on the Repubs and not help them in a coming presidential election, but I wouldn't bet against one...


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 4, 2015)

You forget...... that nonsense plays well in the Primary..   AND that is what they are concerned about now.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Aug 4, 2015)

Hmm, well, you could be right and we'll soon find out...


----------



## Glinda (Aug 4, 2015)

Another republican non-issue.


----------



## Josiah (Aug 4, 2015)

Planned Parenthood was following the letter of the law in providing fetal tissue for medical research. 

I'll consider disposing of Planned Parenthood, if you replace it with a fully funded government run program that is designed to perform the same services that PP provided including abortion.....but I don't think the GOP would go along with that plan.


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 4, 2015)

So...  Here's what the game plan is..   pass a budget that defunds Planned Parenthood... then force the President to veto it..  THEN accuse the President of shutting down the Government.   THEN... since the president is a Democrat... blame ALL Democrats  ESPECIALLY Hillary Clinton..  It's a pretty easy plot to follow.


----------



## BobF (Aug 4, 2015)

So it is only the Dems that want these planned parenthood things to happen?   No problem as Dems are only 1/3 of our registered voters.   Time to tell them to end their biased programs.   Let the other 2/3rds have their say also.   Since when has 1/3 been a majority?

A bit of math here.   I don't know who all is for, or against, the planned parenthood ideas.   The wife and I had talked of abortions if need be, but it never came to that point.   We only had a boy and a girl.   No other threats.   Based on religion there should be no abortions for any one.   I think doctors orders are needed, or should be.   What ever, I don't think my tax money should be used to pay for some foolish persons 2nd or 3rd or more abortions.   One for the first mistake and none there after.

Tough topic but taxpayers should not have to pay for multiple mistakes for the same person.   One mistake only, and question that option strongly with no repeats being emphasized.

Back when the wife and I were talking of abortions it was before possible in the US.    I think then we would have had to go to Sweden for such an event.


----------



## ~Lenore (Aug 4, 2015)

[h=2]Should Planned Parenthood be defunded*

YES*[/h]


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 4, 2015)

BobF said:


> So it is only the Dems that want these planned parenthood things to happen?   No problem as Dems are only 1/3 of our registered voters.   Time to tell them to end their biased programs.   Let the other 2/3rds have their say also.   Since when has 1/3 been a majority?
> 
> A bit of math here.   I don't know who all is for, or against, the planned parenthood ideas.   The wife and I had talked of abortions if need be, but it never came to that point.   We only had a boy and a girl.   No other threats.   Based on religion there should be no abortions for any one.   I think doctors orders are needed, or should be.   What ever, I don't think my tax money should be used to pay for some foolish persons 2nd or 3rd or more abortions.   One for the first mistake and none there after.
> 
> ...



Bob, your math needs help.  Who says *only* Dems resist shutting down PP?  Who knows whose majority in the case of PP?  Even if your 1/3 vs 2/3 was correct it certainly doesn't mean what you reflect in your faulty math.


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 4, 2015)

Actually that is untrue BOB...  according to Gallup.. Democrats outnumber Republicans and people that claim to be Independents outnumber both.


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 4, 2015)

Simple answer:  NO


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 4, 2015)

Here's some 2014 numbers...  Don't know where Bob gets this numbers that 2/3rd of the entire country is Republican..


----------



## BobF (Aug 4, 2015)

I never said 2/3 are Republicans at all.   Just another stretch of you misguided imagination.

I said 1/3 as I was speaking in broader terms, not by the very latest poll.   The 2/3 I posted was the Republicans and independents.   Those clusters of voters change by the day and how things are going.   Republican and Democrat are both shrinking with time, while the independents keep growing.

My idea of no parties on the ballots would be a great help to the voters.   They would need to learn names and what the candidates would like to see happening to vote for people they like.   No more just depending on the two parties to make up our minds.


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 4, 2015)

So once again you crawfish out of the subject.  You phrased your comment to indicate all Democrats wanted PP funded but 2/3's of the population does not.  Completely untrue, first of all some Democrats want it closed, second many of your 2/3 want it open.  You come up with some outlandish suppositions.


----------



## BobF (Aug 4, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Simple answer:  NO



No to what Jim?   You don't make any sense at all too often.


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 4, 2015)

BobF said:


> No to what Jim?   You don't make any sense at all too often.



I don't make sense....How funny.  The post asks the question: 
*Should Planned Parenthood be defunded?*


But my answer of NO doesn't make sense???  Are you over or under medicated?


----------



## BobF (Aug 4, 2015)

In my case I was reading well down in the forum.    I did not see the title for the forum.    Now that you have pointed that out, it makes sense to post a nothing answer to a not so apparent question.   But your answer by itself means nothing.   Maybe the question should appear on every page and even as we scroll down the question should stay visible.


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 4, 2015)

BobF said:


> In my case I was reading well down in the forum.    I did not see the title for the forum.    Now that you have pointed that out, it makes sense to post a nothing answer to a not so apparent question.   But your answer by itself means nothing.   Maybe the question should appear on every page and even as we scroll down the question should stay visible.



Whatever you say bob  *eyes roll*


----------



## BobF (Aug 4, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> So once again you crawfish out of the subject.  You phrased your comment to indicate all Democrats wanted PP funded but 2/3's of the population does not.  Completely untrue, first of all some Democrats want it closed, second many of your 2/3 want it open.  You come up with some outlandish suppositions.



All you have done again, is twist the response so it make you look smart, but instead it make you look like someone with no answers at all.   I did not say 1/3 were for or against the program at all.   Read my post and I tell of the wife and I having faced that problem prior to the current laws.   Our escape would have been to go out of the country for solution with doctors or risk the home town illegal abortionist.

The way both parties are shrinking it may not be many years till both become inconsequential for our voting and running the government.   The Constitution makes no provision for political parties so if they fade away, no problem at all.   Individual voting by the folks we elect is the way they should vote.   Parties are not encouraged by the Constitution at all and those we elect are supposed to represent the people that vote by regions and states, not some national political party speaking for itself and not the people.


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 4, 2015)

Excuse me please, what is "crawfish" in this context?


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 4, 2015)

It's an old Yankee expression used to identify pretty mermaids.


----------



## Butterfly (Aug 4, 2015)

Planned parenthood should absolutely NOT be defunded!  If the Repubs get their way, we'd defund Planned Parenthood, outlaw abortion, and get rid of public assistance .  Then what?  Babies starving in the streets???  Maybe all those Repubs who want to outlaw abortion and defund Planned Parenthood should each be required to adopt one or more of those babies?  Hmmm.....

What's the big deal about using fetal tissue for research, anyway?


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 4, 2015)

Oh they would rather see that fetal tissue and stem be trashed rather than work toward saving mankind.


----------



## Josiah (Aug 4, 2015)

Planned Parenthood has such a proud history it's roots going back to Margaret Sanger (my candidate for the new picture on the $20 bill) the early birth control activist. I can think of no single person who has done more to improve the lives of women than Ms Sanger. If you have not already done so I recommend reading a biography of Margaret Sanger. It is truly an inspiring story.


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 4, 2015)

BobF said:


> I never said 2/3 are Republicans at all.   Just another stretch of you misguided imagination.
> 
> I said 1/3 as I was speaking in broader terms, not by the very latest poll.   The 2/3 I posted was the Republicans and independents.   Those clusters of voters change by the day and how things are going.   Republican and Democrat are both shrinking with time, while the independents keep growing.
> 
> My idea of no parties on the ballots would be a great help to the voters.   They would need to learn names and what the candidates would like to see happening to vote for people they like.   No more just depending on the two parties to make up our minds.



This is what you said...

_



			So it is only the Dems that want these planned parenthood things to happen? No problem as Dems are only 1/3 of our registered voters. Time to tell them to end their biased programs. Let the other 2/3rds have their say also. Since when has 1/3 been a majority?
		
Click to expand...


_So  where did you find the data that ALL Republicans and ALL Independents want PP defunded?


----------



## BobF (Aug 4, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> So once again you crawfish out of the subject.  You phrased your comment to indicate all Democrats wanted PP funded but 2/3's of the population does not.  Completely untrue, first of all some Democrats want it closed, second many of your 2/3 want it open.  You come up with some outlandish suppositions.



*BobF* 






  					 					 					 						Senior Member 					 					 					                                           					 						 							 								
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



































 			 				 					Join DateApr 2014LocationArizona, USAPosts1,296 					 					 				

So it is only the Dems that want these planned parenthood things to  happen?   No problem as Dems are only 1/3 of our registered voters.    Time to tell them to end their biased programs.   Let the other 2/3rds  have their say also.   Since when has 1/3 been a majority?

A bit of math here.*   I don't know who all is for, or against, the  planned parenthood ideas.*   The wife and I had talked of abortions if  need be, but it never came to that point.   We only had a boy and a  girl.   No other threats.   Based on religion there should be no  abortions for any one.   I think doctors orders are needed, or should  be.   What ever, I don't think my tax money should be used to pay for  some foolish persons 2nd or 3rd or more abortions.   One for the first  mistake and none there after.

Tough topic but taxpayers should not have to pay for multiple mistakes  for the same person.   One mistake only, and question that option  strongly with no repeats being emphasized.

Back when the wife and I were talking of abortions it was before  possible in the US.    I think then we would have had to go to Sweden  for such an event. 				​ 


......................................

Jim, how do you twist my comment above into anything like you have.   Twisted mind is all you have.   Get real for once.


----------



## Misty (Aug 4, 2015)

To planned parenthood, fetuses that they kill, are known as products to be sold, part by part. Wonder how long before they decide seniors are too much trouble, and the same will happen to them.


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 4, 2015)

Now wait a sec bob...  Here is what you said




> So it is only the Dems that want these planned parenthood things to happen? No problem as Dems are only 1/3 of our registered voters. Time to tell them to end their biased programs. Let the other 2/3rds have their say also. Since when has 1/3 been a majority?





> A bit of math here.* I don't know who all is for, or against, the planned parenthood ideas. *


*

So  In your first paragraph.. you indicate that 2/3rds of voters need to have their say ...and end Democrat bias..    Since when do they NOT have their say..??    Are they not allowed to vote?  

In your next sentence you say you don't know who is all for or against planned parenthood.. 




This doesn't make sense.. *


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 4, 2015)

BobF said:


> *BobF*
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Bob in many passages of the bible baby killing is commanded by god.  Here is one example:
David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

    Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own  house.  I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and  will give them to your neighbor.  He shall lie with your wives in broad  daylight.  You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about  in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
     Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord."  Nathan  answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall  not die.  But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the  child born to you must surely die."  [The child dies seven days later.]


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 4, 2015)

Planned parenthood is NOT selling baby parts...   How silly.

Videos recently released by the anti-abortion group Center for Medical Progress have focused attention on a medical practice previously unknown to much of the public: the sale of fetal tissue acquired from abortion clinics for medical research. The group, who secretly recorded the tapes of meetings with Planned Parenthood officials, has accused the organization of illegally selling fetal tissue for profit, a charge that Planned Parenthood denies.
Much of the controversy stems from a lack of widespread public knowledge of who buys and sells fetal tissue, what it is used for, and what the law allows regarding its purchase and sale. Scientists have been using such material in medical research for decades to study (and possibly develop cures for) a number of diseases and medical ailments, but commercial fetal tissue transactions take place in something of a legal gray zone: agencies may sell fetal tissue that has been “donated” for that purpose (through abortion), but they may not profit from it. According to federal law they may only charge for the processing and shipping involved in transferring the material from donor to purchaser, but the law doesn’t regulate how much they may charge.

Read more at http://m.snopes.com/fetal-tissue-sales/#pBzKBcJYEpd42TqW.99


----------



## Misty (Aug 4, 2015)

Maybe snopes didn't view the fourth and fifth video's that showed footage of workers at a Colorado clinic sorting through fetal body parts, and seen in the fifth video, the planned parenthood employee states that if they alter a process and are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, the price goes up.


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 4, 2015)

Misty said:


> Maybe snopes didn't view the fourth and fifth video's that showed footage of workers at a Colorado clinic sorting through fetal body parts, and seen in the fifth video, the planned parenthood employee states that if they alter a process and are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, the price goes up.



Can you show us a credible link to that Misty?


----------



## Grumpy Ol' Man (Aug 4, 2015)

This is nothing but yet another political stunt by the far right.  

As one poster said, everything PP did is completely legal.  If the Pubs don't like it, then change the law.  Try to run a law through Congress that outlaws reimbursement of costs realized in the use of body parts for medical research.

Another poster suggested he didn't believe he should be supporting abortion through government funding of PP.  There is already a law on the books that prevents PP from using grant funds for abortion.  Defunding, if the Pubs get their way, will have zero effect on the PP performing abortions... if they can stay open.  What it will do is eliminate cancer screening, access to birth control... necessary things for women's health.

The 60 votes are not there to override a Presidential veto.  Hence, there is no chance of a bill from either the House or Senate becoming law.  They know that.  Doesn't make any difference.  Gives the Limbaughs, Hannitys, Becks, etc. something to rant about and keep their listeners working overtime to divide the Country.  Gives the Pubs something to hang their hats on as the election cycle ramps up.


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 4, 2015)

Grumpy Ol' Man said:


> This is nothing but yet another political stunt by the far right.
> 
> As one poster said, everything PP did is completely legal.  If the Pubs don't like it, then change the law.  Try to run a law through Congress that outlaws reimbursement of costs realized in the use of body parts for medical research.
> 
> ...




Political stunt is correct...   Not unlike what they did to ACORN with their doctored and edited videos..


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 4, 2015)

No.


----------



## Misty (Aug 4, 2015)

i deleted the link to the video, as some may be offended by the graphic nature of the video, Jim.


----------



## Butterfly (Aug 4, 2015)

Trouble with these videos is that there is no way to know if they depict what they are alleged to depict.  "Sorting body parts" could be simply cleaning up the OR to assure proper disposal of medical waste.  And who knows what agenda the alleged "employee" who allegedly said this had.  Or even if they were really an employee.  

I simply do not believe Planned Parenthood operates like it is suggested they do, regardless of how graphic the video is.


----------



## Lara (Aug 4, 2015)

The bottom line is that it's not fair to the Pro-Life taxpayers to fund abortion when they have strong beliefs that it is murder or it's against their religion. The Pro-Choicers should be the ones to support Planned Parenthood through charitable donations if they feel strongly about it. Or there could be a box to check on our income tax returns just like the one that asks if you want to give $$ to the Campaign Fund.


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 4, 2015)

Lara said:


> The bottom line is that it's not fair to the Pro-Life taxpayers to fund abortion when they have strong beliefs that it is murder or it's against their religion. The Pro-Choicers should be the ones to support Planned Parenthood through charitable donations if they feel strongly about it. Or there could be a box to check on our income tax returns just like the one that asks if you want to give $$ to the Campaign Fund.



Lara, just think a moment about that.  If we could opt out of anything we didn't want tax money spent on, how could  we fund some of our most fundamental public services, how 'bout the wars we don't believe in?  So  we refuse to pay because we have personal beliefs contrary to the program or expenditure?  Society means we put it into a pot and it is distributed to our common good.  Some don't agree with anything taxes go toward.  We need to elect  people who best represent our ideals but none are 100%.


----------



## Glinda (Aug 4, 2015)

Lara said:


> The bottom line is that it's not fair to the Pro-Life taxpayers to fund abortion when they have strong beliefs that it is murder or it's against their religion. The Pro-Choicers should be the ones to support Planned Parenthood through charitable donations if they feel strongly about it. Or there could be a box to check on our income tax returns just like the one that asks if you want to give $$ to the Campaign Fund.



Yes, wouldn't it be nice if we could just opt out of paying taxes on those issues we have "strong beliefs" about?  I wish none of my taxes would have gone toward the war in Iraq which the republicans knowingly based on lies.  I believe thousands of people were needlessly murdered.  I have strong beliefs that I shouldn't have had to pay for that.  It's just not fair!


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 5, 2015)

Glinda said:


> Yes, wouldn't it be nice if we could just opt out of paying taxes on those issues we have "strong beliefs" about?  I wish none of my taxes would have gone toward the war in Iraq which the republicans knowingly based on lies.  I believe thousands of people were needlessly murdered.  I have strong beliefs that I shouldn't have had to pay for that.  It's just not fair!



Absolutely..  I want all my tax money back that went to fund that war..


----------



## Jackie22 (Aug 5, 2015)

I don't like my taxes paying the salary of tea baggers or religious fanatics that are taking our country back to the dark ages.....not fair at all.


----------



## Lara (Aug 5, 2015)

I understand what ya'll are saying about war but remember that, while we don't agree with war or believe in war nor want to fund it…there are reasons attached to it's "necessity" (arguably), like fighting for freedom, or fighting for the security of our homelands, against genocide, or against terrorism, against WMD etc…BUT the simple reason for taking the life of an unborn baby is, "I don't want it" or "I don't want to deal with carrying it and delivering it and then giving it up". Those are way different reasons for taking life. So, fund Planned Parenthood for birth control counseling and adoption but defund with regard to abortion due to the fact that it's a child's life, one that isn't compromising homeland security or mass destruction, etc.

Disclaimer: You may think I'm against Planned Parenthood but, no, I love the options they present of adoption and birth control and I'm willing to pay taxes for that. I'm not rightwing (nor leftwing); I'm not a tea bagger; I'm not a religious fanatic. I'm just a voice for the unborn child.


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 5, 2015)

With respect, Lara, it is not always  that simple. One of my clients was a woman kidnapped, held captive for three months, during which  time she was repeatedly raped, which resulted in her being impregnated by that monster. Due to circumstances beyond her control, she was unable to access any contraception. After she was rescued, she had an abortion. Under the same situation, I would have made the identical choice. Most women would, for obvious reasons.


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 5, 2015)

Lara said:


> I understand what ya'll are saying about war but remember that, while we don't agree with war or believe in war nor want to fund it…there are reasons attached to it's "necessity" (arguably), like fighting for freedom, or fighting for the security of our homelands, against genocide, or against terrorism, against WMD etc…BUT the simple reason for taking the life of an unborn baby is, "I don't want it" or "I don't want to deal with carrying it and delivering it and then giving it up". Those are way different reasons for taking life. So, fund Planned Parenthood for birth control counseling and adoption but defund with regard to abortion due to the fact that it's a child's life, one that isn't compromising homeland security or mass destruction, etc.
> 
> Disclaimer: You may think I'm against Planned Parenthood but, no, I love the options they present of adoption and birth control and I'm willing to pay taxes for that. I'm not rightwing (nor leftwing); I'm not a tea bagger; I'm not a religious fanatic. I'm just a voice for the unborn child.




But don't forget.. with so many Republican governors refusing to participate in the Medicaid expansion plan offered by the ACA.. Planned parenthood is sometime the only healthcare poor women get..  and they don't limit their practice to women. Men also can take advantage of the health and cancer screenings provided by PC.  Why would you want that to stop?

Also... you do realize that your tax dollar is NOT funding the abortion services of PP due to the law passed by Congress..  It's called the Hyde Amendment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment

Also... only a very small percentage of PPs services are abortion...  Which again needs emphasis on the fact that abortion is LEGAL.. and it is a medical right of women.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/

*



			Q:
		
Click to expand...

*


> * How much of Planned Parenthood’s services are dedicated to abortions? Does the federal government fund those procedures? *
> *A: Abortions represent 3 percent of total * *services provided by **Planned Parenthood, and roughly 10 percent of its clients received an abortion.  The group does receive federal funding, but the money cannot be used for abortions by law. *
> *FULL ANSWER*
> We received several questions on this topic during the recent budget debate in Congress, after Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl claimed this month on the Senate floor that "well over 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood does" is provide abortion services. That figure was wildly incorrect. Planned Parenthood says only 3 percent of its total services in 2009 were abortions. The other 97 percent of services were for contraception, treatment and tests for sexually transmitted diseases, cancer screenings, and other women’s health services.



Defunding PP would certainly hurt those we need to help the most.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Aug 5, 2015)

Don't worry about them as they will love The Donald just like so many other suffering groups do...


----------



## Jackie22 (Aug 5, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> But don't forget.. with so many Republican governors refusing to participate in the Medicaid expansion plan offered by the ACA.. Planned parenthood is sometime the only healthcare poor women get..  and they don't limit their practice to women. Men also can take advantage of the health and cancer screenings provided by PC.  Why would you want that to stop?
> 
> Also... you do realize that your tax dollar is NOT funding the abortion services of PP due to the law passed by Congress..  It's called the Hyde Amendment
> 
> ...


*

Good point, QS, I had forgotten, the taxpayers DO NOT pay for abortions.*


----------



## Debby (Aug 6, 2015)

deleted

(is there some way to actually, really delete a post other than just deleting the text?)


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 6, 2015)

except it's edited.... exactly the way ACORN videos were edited.   In fact.. ACORN was cleared of any wrong doing, but it was too late.. The Right Wing had already shut them down.   The anti abortion group responsible for them is one and the very same that has advocated violence at clinics.. supported the harassment of women.. and distributed personal details about the doctors.. addresses etc... likely leading to the murders of several.   Are you really going to believe they would NOT edit the videos for their propaganda?  

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/


----------

