# Unmitigated Gall



## Katybug (Nov 18, 2013)

_*I know it serves a purpose for a lot of people and widely loved, but most of you know how I feel about this chain.  Something in the news today truly takes the cake...
*_

A Cleveland *Wal-Mart* (WMT -0.25%) store is holding a food drive -- for its own employees. 
"Please donate food items so associates in need can enjoy Thanksgiving dinner," reads a sign accompanied by several plastic bins.


The Cleveland Plain Dealer first reported on the food drive, which has sparked outrage in the area.


"That Wal-Mart would have the audacity to ask low-wage workers to donate food to other low-wage workers -- to me, it is a moral outrage," Norma Mills, a customer at the store, told The Plain Dealer.


_*The very nerve!!!  I could write a book on how much I hate W-M since the founder died.  It wouldn't be the success it is unless the majority of people felt differently, but ya gotta admit this is ballsy!*_


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## Warrigal (Nov 18, 2013)

Absolutely unbelievable.

However, Wal Mart is spinning it differently

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/behind...ood-drive-for-employees/?mod=msn_money_ticker



> Company spokesman Kory Lundberg told MarketWatch that the store has conducted such food drive for a few years year round for employees who have gone through some “unforeseen hardships” such as a death in the family or a spouse losing job.  He said last year an employee at the store got help because she lost her childcare support.
> 
> “It’s sad this is being twisted into something it’s not,” he said in reference to the response of employees he’s spoken to at that store. “Our pay is competitive to anyone out there.”
> 
> ...


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## Jackie22 (Nov 18, 2013)

......Katy, now you know they only made 3.7 billion profit last quarter..... how can you expect them to help out every Tom, Dick and Harry...


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## Jackie22 (Nov 18, 2013)

Warrigal said:


> Absolutely unbelievable.
> 
> However, Wal Mart is spinning it differently
> 
> http://blogs.marketwatch.com/behind...ood-drive-for-employees/?mod=msn_money_ticker



I think Walmart got into trouble with some of their grant giving in the past, having conditions attached, not sure it had to do with employees....of course they have to put a good face on it.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 18, 2013)

In ancient times, when a slave would fall while building the pyramids the other workers would band together and donate a portion of their grain to the widow ...


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## Diwundrin (Nov 18, 2013)

Ha!  you think that's cynical?  Out here we have banks who have customers best interests at heart. Just ask 'em.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 18, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Ha!  you think that's cynical?  Out here we have banks who have customers best interests at heart. Just ask 'em.



I have a standard routine for whenever someone asks me if I have a bank account. The dance steps, hand gestures, song lyrics and pantomime all come together into what the _NY Times_ has termed -

_*"A MUST SEE PARODY AT ANY COST!" (*NYTimes,_11/12/13_*)

*_From my gig at the Alhambra - the closing number ..._*

We're For You
*_
We're for you, we're for you,
Take a coffeemaker, juicer and a
Toaster, too

We're for you, we're for you,
Just remember we're your friends when we take
A point or two

We slave all night and day inside our
Plush vault walls
We hope that you don't mind we've got you
By the balls

We're for you, we're for you
We ... are .... for ...

YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!


*fireworks, glitter, parading elephants*
*exeunt*


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## babyboomer (Nov 18, 2013)

In Australia, there 2 giant supermarket cdains.
All the near "use by" and "best before date" items, as well as damaged items are given to charities. Many other outlets, restaurants, hotels etc., are following the example.


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## GDAD (Nov 18, 2013)

babyboomer said:


> In Australia, there 2 giant supermarket cdains.
> All the near "use by" and "best before date" items, as well as damaged items are given to charities. Many other outlets, restaurants, hotels etc., are following the example.




I think there only in Victoria, not throughout Australia. The two giant food supermarket robbers are COLES & WOOLWORTHS.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 18, 2013)

You do realise that those charitable donations are tax write offs of course?  They 'make' almost as much on those donations as they do on the stuff they sell. 
 Just mentioning that to forestall any misconceptions some may hold that they are exhibiting signs of philanthropy.


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## babyboomer (Nov 18, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> You do realise that those charitable donations are tax write offs of course?  They 'make' almost as much on those donations as they do on the stuff they sell.
> Just mentioning that to forestall any misconceptions some may hold that they are exhibiting signs of philanthropy.


Well if they were "disposed off" in dumpster, they would still be "tax write offs"


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## SifuPhil (Nov 18, 2013)

babyboomer said:


> Well if they were "disposed off" in dumpster, they would still be "tax write offs"



But they wouldn't be _donations_, unless they were to the Trashmen's Union, so they wouldn't qualify for donation deductions ...


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## Katybug (Nov 18, 2013)

Jackie22 said:


> ......Katy, now you know they only made 3.7 billion profit last quarter..... how can you expect them to help out every Tom, Dick and Harry...



_All I can say is I must have lost my mind, Jackie, when the company is obviously doing as poorly as their employees, and made just under $4 billion.  How are they going to get by on that pittance?  So excuse me, I obviously misspoke.:hororr:  
_


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## Katybug (Nov 18, 2013)

Jackie22 said:


> I think Walmart got into trouble with some of their grant giving in the past, having conditions attached, not sure it had to do with employees....of course they have to put a good face on it.



They would certainly spin this in their favor, of course, because the truth should humiliate them terribly...and it does or they wouldn't be trying to 'splain their way out of it.  I've heard this first hand and know it to be true....I despise the way they treat their employees and that, too, began after the founder's death.  Things weren't at all the way they are now when he was in charge.


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## Judi.D (Nov 19, 2013)

As long as the drive is, more for less, among so many people these huge companies will continue to exist. They will continue to treat their employees the way they do. Walmart is not the only one. These companies will continue to open on Thanksgiving, and other holidays. It is not just the CEOs, the others in charge, and the people who buy their stock, it is the people who shop there.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 19, 2013)

You are right, Judi.D.....two things about Walmart that really gets my goat is that they hand out instructions to employees on 'how to get government help' and when they opened stores in Mexico they tried to pay employees with vouchers that the employees had to spend at ......where else.....WALMART.


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## Katybug (Nov 19, 2013)

GDAD said:


> I think there only in Victoria, not throughout Australia. The two giant food supermarket robbers are COLES & WOOLWORTHS.



I'm still thinking of Wal-Mart as more like a K-Mart rather than a groc store, tho I know huge groc sections have been added to most all their stores.   But none of the original ones that I shopped in (when the founder was running them) carried many food items, just everything else under the sun.  Even w/the groc section included, that's only about 1/4 of the store. It is 1-stop shopping for anything you may need and that makes it even more popular, and their prices truly are cheaper.  But there is way too much publicity smoke as to how poorly they treat their employees (again, since the founder died) for there not to be a fire...and a big one at that.  I think the OP speaks for my feeling this so strongly.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Nov 19, 2013)

That "trust" for helping employees in need? It's funded by payroll deduction donations of employees not by Walmart. What? You expect the owners/shareholders to part with their own money. Silly you!


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## Katybug (Nov 19, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> But they wouldn't be _donations_, unless they were to the Trashmen's Union, so they wouldn't qualify for donation deductions ...



Trashman's Union?  LOL


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## Happyflowerlady (Nov 19, 2013)

I think that many places will band employees together to help an employee who is having hard times, so I do not see that as unique to Walmart. I have worked in places where the employees took up collections to help a fellow employee who was going through a hard time for some reason, or had contracted a serious illness.
Also, Walmart, while being a large corporation, is still basically pretty much an entry level type of job, or part time job, and just like Burger King, or any fast food place, it is often just a stepping stone to better employment for graduates. If a person continues to work there, it does offer higher wages, as well as a retirement plan. My husbands stepmother worked there for many years, and is now drawing her retirement pension from there, and she was a manager in the flower department.
Just because a company is profitable does not mean they should pay more for workers, just as an unprofitable company does not pay less. An employee is paid the going wage for the job they are performing, whether it is a giant superstore, or the neighborhood market.


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## Katybug (Nov 19, 2013)

Judi.D said:


> As long as the drive is, more for less, among so many people these huge companies will continue to exist. They will continue to treat their employees the way they do. Walmart is not the only one. These companies will continue to open on Thanksgiving, and other holidays. It is not just the CEOs, the others in charge, and the people who buy their stock, it is the people who shop there.



I feel so sorry for those who have to work on holidays, but for some they don't mean that much.  If I didn't have family, I would offer to work, as a lot of them do and at time &  a half. But for all the people I know who work some holidays, their companies treat them well in other respects.  Not at all like I've heard first hand from several Wal-Mart employees....and, again, since the Owner died.  It's like a working for a different company altogether, they say, since he passed -- and that's when the poor treatment began. 

Hating crowds, I never go into any store the day before or after a holiday, haven't in decades, and you can bet the farm I wouldn't be in Wal-Mart on any day.  But I understand what you're saying.


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## Davey Jones (Nov 19, 2013)

You  all need to read the whole story. A large company I use to work for did this every Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Lundberg said holding the food drive at the Canton Walmart was decided at the *store level*. However, the effort could be considered in line with what happens company-wide. The Associates in Critical Need Trust is funded by Walmart employee contributions that can be given throughpayroll
	
 deduction. He said employees can receive grants up to $1,500 to address hardships they may encounter, including homelessness, serious medical illnesses and major repairs to primary vehicles. Since 2001, grants totaling $80 million have been made.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 19, 2013)

Happyflowerlady said:


> Also, Walmart, while being a large corporation, is still basically pretty much an entry level type of job, or part time job, and just like Burger King, or any fast food place, it is often just a stepping stone to better employment for graduates.



But the sad truth is that, while jobs like this ARE meant for those new to the workplace, they are actually being filled by mature adults who are scrabbling to survive. There's a big difference. 

It isn't a stepping stone for _those_ people - it's a life raft. 

I have no problem with a company organizing a collection for an ill employee, unless that illness is due to not having medical coverage (part-time employment, anyone?). 

The $1,500 that W-M offers as emergency medical coverage? That's a joke, as anyone who has paid a medical bill for major services could tell you. That _might_ cover the cost of a few tests.

Finally, it's just the irony of a company widely reviled for its employment practices and mistreatment of employees to put out a few buckets advertising charity. It's as if Ebenezer Scrooge were to suddenly start collecting for UNICEF.


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## Happyflowerlady (Nov 19, 2013)

Sifu, I do see what you are saying, and you are absolutely right ! 
However, in my way of thinking, that makes those jobs even more important, since they ARE literally a life raft for some older people. I have seen elderly greeters working at a Walmart store, that had to do the job from a wheelchair, and know that it is their way to supplement a meager SS pension.
 For several years, I sold newspaper subscriptions at stores from a little kiosk, on commission, to help us survive on my SS pension.
 Now, I do surveys, and other online tasks to help out.

Jobs that pay more than the basic wages found at Walmart or a fast food place are much harder to come by, especially for the handicapped people. 
Yes, it would be wonderful if they did pay more than basic wage, but then there would be less of them, since more people would then not try to better themselves with a better paying job. 
The life-raft people would then have NO life raft jobs.

And the employee collections are not meant to replace health and injury disability insurance, they are to simply help with other expenses the person is unable to properly afford while they are sick. 
My brother in law was a lineman, and one day a power pole fell over with him. Even though Workman's Comp paid for his hospital and doctor treatment, he still appreciated the donation that the other linemen took up to help him and his family, which helped to put food on the table while other compensation had not yet kicked in to help with household needs.


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## That Guy (Nov 19, 2013)




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## SifuPhil (Nov 19, 2013)

Happyflowerlady said:


> Sifu, I do see what you are saying, and you are absolutely right !
> However, in my way of thinking, that makes those jobs even more important, since they ARE literally a life raft for some older people. I have seen elderly greeters working at a Walmart store, that had to do the job from a wheelchair, and know that it is their way to supplement a meager SS pension.
> For several years, I sold newspaper subscriptions at stores from a little kiosk, on commission, to help us survive on my SS pension.
> Now, I do surveys, and other online tasks to help out.



No argument there. I realize that these jobs can be the make-it-or-break-it point for many seniors. It's just a shame that they have to do that, after having worked so hard all their lives and being sold the dream of retirement being a wonderland of sitting around sipping margaritas and playing pinochle. 



> Jobs that pay more than the basic wages found at Walmart or a fast food place are much harder to come by, especially for the handicapped people.
> Yes, it would be wonderful if they did pay more than basic wage, but then there would be less of them, since more people would then not try to better themselves with a better paying job. The life-raft people would then have NO life raft jobs.



It may seem a bit odd, but I'm not so much against the minimum wage being paid - I'm against the store offering only part-time work in order to get away from paying benefits.



> And the employee collections are not meant to replace health and injury disability insurance, they are to simply help with other expenses the person is unable to properly afford while they are sick.



See my above comment on benefits - the part-timers don't have any. 



> My brother in law was a lineman, and one day a power pole fell over with him. Even though Workman's Comp paid for his hospital and doctor treatment, he still appreciated the donation that the other linemen took up to help him and his family, which helped to put food on the table while other compensation had not yet kicked in to help with household needs.



My brother was an electronics technician in a sugar refinery, and when his diabetes got to the point where he could no longer do the physical work they required of him (climbing up on vats of sugar, working in 100-degree-plus temps, etc.) they fired him. His union, which he had paid into for years, did nothing to help. He couldn't get unemployment, his medical coverage ended and he never received a helping hand from any of his co-workers.

I'm not sure what the point of that little story was, unless it was to vent a bit and to rant about working for large American companies and their soulless executives.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 19, 2013)

[h=1]Costco, a company that treats their employees right....

Reasons To Love Costco That Have Nothing To Do With Shopping[/h]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/19/reasons-love-costco_n_4275774.html 

It's not just the bulk toilet paper and $1.50 hot dog combos. There's more going on here. 

1. The company pays a living wage. Costco's CEO and president, Craig Jelinek, has publicly endorsed raising the federal minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, and he takes that to heart. The company's starting pay is $11.50 per hour, and the average employee wage is $21 per hour, not including overtime. Most other big box retailers start their employees at minimum wage. 

2. Workers get benefits. About 88 percent of Costco employees have company-sponsored health insurance, according to David Sherwood, Costco's Director of Financial Planning and Investor Relations. "I just think people need to make a living wage with health benefits,” Jelinek told Bloomberg. “It also puts more money back into the economy and creates a healthier country. It’s really that simple.” 

3. The CEO makes a reasonable salary. Costco's CEO makes far less than most executives, with a total compensation package of about $4.83 million in 2012. In contrast, Walmart CEO Mike Duke made roughly $19.3 million during the same year. Walmart's CEO earns as much as 796 average employees, according to CNN Money, compared to Costco's CEO making 48 times more than the company's median wage...


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## Katybug (Nov 19, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> But the sad truth is that, while jobs like this ARE meant for those new to the workplace, they are actually being filled by mature adults who are scrabbling to survive. There's a big difference.
> 
> It isn't a stepping stone for _those_ people - it's a life raft.
> 
> ...




You call 'em like you see 'em and obviously I see W-M the same.  Life raft is the perfect description.  I don't recall ever seeing anyone that would fall under the description of young working there, other than in pharmacy or their other depts.  All of those are leased out and not W-M employees.


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## Ozarkgal (Nov 19, 2013)

Jackie..you beat me to it.  I was going to post about Costco's wage and benefit scale.  What's going on with Walmart is greed, pure and simple.  How much profit does a company need to earn, how money does a CEO need to make?  I wonder if Walmart really thinks that people fall for the insincerity of taking up donations for it's own employees. 

 It smacks of a king riding through the streets of the slums in a fancy carriage, putting his diamond encrusted hand out the window to throw pennies to starving beggars.

I used to shop at Costco every week, and you can certainly tell the difference between the Costco and Walmart employee's attitudes.  Costco has a very efficient store operation and the employees are friendly and willing to help. The high level of job satisfaction is evident.  I really miss having a Costco in this neck of the woods.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 19, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Jackie..you beat me to it.  I was going to post about Costco's wage and benefit scale.  What's going on with Walmart is greed, pure and simple.  How much profit does a company need to earn, how money does a CEO need to make?  I wonder if Walmart really thinks that people fall for the insincerity of taking up donations for it's own employees.
> 
> It smacks of a king riding through the streets of the slums in a fancy carriage, putting his diamond encrusted hand out the window to throw pennies to starving beggars.
> 
> I used to shop at Costco every week, and you can certainly tell the difference between the Costco and Walmart employee's attitudes.  Costco has a very efficient store operation and the employees are friendly and willing to help. The high level of job satisfaction is evident.  I really miss having a Costco in this neck of the woods.



Yes, I agree, I just wish there were more of them....I have to drive about 40 miles to shop their store.


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## Katybug (Nov 19, 2013)

Jackie22 said:


> *Costco, a company that treats their employees right....
> 
> Reasons To Love Costco That Have Nothing To Do With Shopping*
> 
> ...



I am a huge fan of Costco, and being employee friendly makes them even more appealing.  My neighbor & I go every few months, split the products and the big savings...and I didn't know about the hot dogs.  I'll have to check those out.


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## Katybug (Nov 19, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Jackie..you beat me to it.  I was going to post about Costco's wage and benefit scale.  What's going on with Walmart is greed, pure and simple.  How much profit does a company need to earn, how money does a CEO need to make?  I wonder if Walmart really thinks that people fall for the insincerity of taking up donations for it's own employees.
> 
> It smacks of a king riding through the streets of the slums in a fancy carriage, putting his diamond encrusted hand out the window to throw pennies to starving beggars.
> 
> I used to shop at Costco every week, and you can certainly tell the difference between the Costco and Walmart employee's attitudes.  Costco has a very efficient store operation and the employees are friendly and willing to help. The high level of job satisfaction is evident.  I really miss having a Costco in this neck of the woods.



I agree with everything you said, OG, and think it's the employee attitude that makes the world of difference for me.


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## Judi.D (Nov 20, 2013)

Good job Jackie and Katybug, you two beat me.  Costco's CEO, Craig Jeliinek, believes the money should be spread out throughout the company. A cashier at Costco can earn up to $60,000 of year. This company should be the blueprint for companies everywhere. 

I got on this morning to post the info on Costco, because yesterday I was there shopping. We are rural here and a group of us travel to Costco at least twice a month. They carry a good selection of organic foods, too. If they don't carry something you want they will also help you locate a place you can order it. You can't beat that for customer service.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 20, 2013)

I've never been in a Costco. Walmart is the only game in town. The walmart employees in Clarksville are very friendly and helpful. Heck, everybody in Clarksville is very friendly and helpful.

I do use a local drugstore and other local stores but they don't all have the merchandise walmart has.


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## Katybug (Nov 20, 2013)

Judi.D said:


> Good job Jackie and Katybug, you two beat me.  Costco's CEO, Craig Jeliinek, believes the money should be spread out throughout the company. A cashier at Costco can earn up to $60,000 of year. This company should be the blueprint for companies everywhere.
> 
> I got on this morning to post the info on Costco, because yesterday I was there shopping. We are rural here and a group of us travel to Costco at least twice a month. They carry a good selection of organic foods, too. If they don't carry something you want they will also help you locate a place you can order it. You can't beat that for customer service.



Thx to Jackie for all the fact finding, I wasn't aware of what an excellent employer they are, just the savings & pleasant experience in shopping there.  Judi, I'm sure you have much further to travel, it's just across town for us, so we go only every 6 wks or so.  Before COSTCO, SAM'S and another that has since gone out of business (can't remember, never shopped there,) controlled that market.  I think COSTCO is going to put SAM's out of business. Everyone I know shops COSTCO and that customer service they offer goes a long way.

RK, you are lucky with your Wal-Mart.....trust me, they aren't all the same.  I can understand if you're in a small town and go there regularly and you get to know the employees.  I've never seen the same employee in any of them twice when I shopped there right after they first opened here.  Their was no local flavor whatsoever and the ones here are far from friendly, just the opposite.  It's as if they're doing you a favor to service you.  And since the picken's are slim in choices for you, I'm glad you're pleased with shopping there. 

And I know some of you will be glad to know that this is my last post on Wal-Mart.


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## Ozarkgal (Nov 20, 2013)

I shop Walmart, because in rural Arakansas Walmart is about it to choose from. I have a Kroger option for groceries, but the store is small, crowded making it hard to shop, every single time I shop there I have to stop before I go out the door and check my receipt..and Yup..everytime there are at least one or two overcharges which results in me having to stand in yet another line at customer service and explain to the not so with it cashier the mistake. 

After, finding an add and going through the whole thing to find the item and finally giving me a refund at least an extra 15 minutes are down the tube.  When you live an hour from the store, 15 minutes matters in getting home.

 I actually like the Batesville Walmart, the customer service is okay and they honor the Kroger ads. Not once in all the time I have shopped in Walmarts have I ever had haggle to get the advertised price. For a while they seemed to have a problem keeping the shelves stocked and were out of a lot of popular items constantly. I read this was a chain problem, as they had cut employee hours to the point that merchandise was not getting put out. 

 Once a year I make a pilgrimage to Arlington to visit a friend and we hit Costco where I stock up on over the counter drugs we use, miscellaneous goodies, and enough of Mr.O's Seattle's Best Columbian coffee to last the year, which is a must have. We pack my friend's little SUV to the ceiling and drive back here and have a nice visit. The only thing I miss about Texas is Costco, there are none in Arkansas.

So sorry, as much as I disagree with their employment policies, my choice of where to shop in this outpost is pretty limited.


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## Happyflowerlady (Nov 20, 2013)

Ozark, I shop at Kroger, as well, but here we have nice large stores, and it is my favorite place to shop. I also check my receipt as soon as I am done shopping, to look for mistakes. However, Kroger has a "Scan-rite Guarantee", and anytime they make a mistake on the price, you get that item FREE ! I never bother with what the checker does, and once I am out of the checkout line, I stop and read through everything, and when I find a mistake, then I go to the CS counter, show them, and get my money back. If the item is over $5, then they charge you the right price, and give you a gift card instead of the money back.
Kroger is the only store that I know that does this, every place else still charges you the right price, and refunds the overage; so I love it when Kroger overcharges me.


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## Old Hipster (Nov 21, 2013)

Happyflowerlady said:


> Ozark, I shop at Kroger, as well, but here we have nice large stores, and it is my favorite place to shop. I also check my receipt as soon as I am done shopping, to look for mistakes. However, Kroger has a "Scan-rite Guarantee", and anytime they make a mistake on the price, you get that item FREE ! I never bother with what the checker does, and once I am out of the checkout line, I stop and read through everything, and when I find a mistake, then I go to the CS counter, show them, and get my money back. If the item is over $5, then they charge you the right price, and give you a gift card instead of the money back.
> Kroger is the only store that I know that does this, every place else still charges you the right price, and refunds the overage; so I love it when Kroger overcharges me.


We have Kroger stores too, where I shop most of the time. Fred Meyer and QFC are both owned by Kroger. And especially at QFC I check the receipt all the time, their scanners are always wrong on something. It drives me nuts, I catch mistakes alot and I got tired of finding it when I got home and didn't want to go back to the store, now I scrutinize before I get out of the parking lot too.


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## Davey Jones (Nov 21, 2013)

Have you seen those scanner receipts lately?
It take me almost 2 minutes to find out how much I paid for those chocolate chip cookies thru all those ads.


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## Katybug (Nov 21, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> I shop Walmart, because in rural Arakansas Walmart is about it to choose from. I have a Kroger option for groceries, but the store is small, crowded making it hard to shop, every single time I shop there I have to stop before I go out the door and check my receipt..and Yup..everytime there are at least one or two overcharges which results in me having to stand in yet another line at customer service and explain to the not so with it cashier the mistake.
> 
> After, finding an add and going through the whole thing to find the item and finally giving me a refund at least an extra 15 minutes are down the tube.  When you live an hour from the store, 15 minutes matters in getting home.
> 
> ...



Hey, OG, we make the most of  what we have.  I wouldn't drive much further than I had to and if Walmart was closest, that's where I'd be shopping.  My main complaint w/WalMart is lack of service and to keep their low prices, they've had to cut back in employees. 

Here, Kroger was bought out by BI-LO and the stores have closed one by one....now they're totally pulling out.  Harris-Teeter supermarkets control the area.   

PUBLIX has wandered on up the east coast from FL and looms as a major threat to Harris-Teeter, locally owned & operated for 75+ years. You can find one every few blocks or so.  With 25 or so in town or within short distance...talk about market monopoly...here comes Publix takin' 'em on big time soon.  I'm looking forward to the grocery wars!


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## SifuPhil (Nov 21, 2013)

I guess y'all can't shop online, huh?


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## Katybug (Nov 21, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I guess y'all can't shop online, huh?



Ya kidding, for groceries?  Well, I suppose I could, but I drive by a half doz or so of them per week.  They offer on-line, but I'm sure there's a charge.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 21, 2013)

Katybug said:


> Ya kidding, for groceries?  Well, I suppose I could, but I drive by a half doz or so of them per week.  They offer on-line, but I'm sure there's a charge.



So there's a charge - isn't that better than supporting a store that mistreats its employees so blatantly?

Or are the people that claim that "they would shop somewhere else but it's too far away" just blowing smoke? 

It comes down I think to what's more important to us - money or morals.


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## Katybug (Nov 22, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> So there's a charge - isn't that better than supporting a store that mistreats its employees so blatantly?
> 
> Or are the people that claim that "they would shop somewhere else but it's too far away" just blowing smoke?
> 
> It comes down I think to what's more important to us - money or morals.



We're not on the same page, Bud, I'm talking Harris-Teeter groc shopping, and Target, NOT Wal-Mart. Some of the others love it tho, and I  understand why...lower prices!  I'd just rather pay more and have better customer service since it's available.

And I have shopped Wal-Mart on line quite a few times, for checks....much cheaper than banks, tho I rarely use them.  Also, for a few other things and their on-line shopping is a good thing, less expensive and no interaction with the employees who are usually grumps -- that is, if you  can find one.


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## Ozarkgal (Nov 22, 2013)

Phil:  





> Or are the people that claim that "they would shop somewhere else but it's too far away" just blowing smoke?



No smoke here Phil...when you have to drive an hour just to get to the grocery store, hopping all about a town that has limited services in hopes of finding what you need, in order to skirt around Wally world doesn't work for my stamina or patience level.  Also, there is the issue of price.  I don't have an unlimited budget and the devil be damned, I have to make the most of what I have. Given a viable alternative I would surely take it. 

We talked about Costco, which is the exception, not the rule in retail.  I suspect the reason we hear so much about Walmart's devious employment practices is because they are so large and have more press looking for a story.  I have a friend that works at Kroger and her working conditions are no better. 

Having worked in the retail world for many years, albeit not in a store, but as manager of an administrative department working closely with management and hourly employees, I heard the complaints from store managers on down about the stressful working conditions, and hellatious pressure to meet monthly sales quotas and hour cutting of employees to meet the bottom line goals. Management staff on the other hand were expected to work excessive hours to fill the gap.  This was back in the 70's and 80's..I can imagine what it's like now. This is standard operating procedure in retail.

Not defending Walmart in any way, they have enough money and power to do that for themselves.  Sometimes, though ideals have to take a back seat when people are in a position where their choices are not much of an option and they have to do what's best for their geographical and/or financial situation.
Walmart is a master of exploiting this opportunity in small towns.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 22, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Phil:
> 
> No smoke here Phil...when you have to drive an hour just to get to the grocery store, hopping all about a town that has limited services in hopes of finding what you need, in order to skirt around Wally world doesn't work for my stamina or patience level.  Also, there is the issue of price.  I don't have an unlimited budget and the devil be damned, I have to make the most of what I have. Given a viable alternative I would surely take it.



I posed what I thought was a valid alternative - online shopping - but so far no one has addressed it. That's why I'm of the opinion that people would rather indulge in their old habits, however hurtful, than to change their ways and embrace a new technology. 

So you're saying that price is king, no matter what? Isn't that a rather dangerous mindset, given the lead from China, the insecticides and steroids from the Mid-West and the slave labor in India and Mexico? Those all contribute to those low prices ...

@Katy - I meant shop online to AVOID stores like WM, not just because they offer an online shopping "experience" - I meant boycotting them altogether by shopping ELSEWHERE online ...


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## That Guy (Nov 22, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I guess y'all can't shop online, huh?



Have read some terrible things lately about how Amazon employees are treated . . .

I do shop online but enjoy the human interaction with people at local mom 'n' pop stores.

Besides, how does one manage shoplifting online . . . ???


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## Ozarkgal (Nov 22, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I posed what I thought was a valid alternative - online shopping - but so far no one has addressed it. That's why I'm of the opinion that people would rather indulge in their old habits, however hurtful, than to change their ways and embrace a new technology.
> 
> So you're saying that price is king, no matter what? Isn't that a rather dangerous mindset, given the lead from China, the insecticides and steroids from the Mid-West and the slave labor in India and Mexico? Those all contribute to those low prices ...



 I don't consider shopping for groceries online a viable alternative. It is super expensive and the choices are limited. I am a hands on shopper and can't give up control to someone else to pick out my cuts of meat, fruits and veggies. Freshness is also another factor, when you buy perishable items in the grocery store, they have already suffered from transit and waiting around on the shelf, add extra shipping time to that for online shopping and the quality is bound to suffer. I don't relish the thought of having a beef roast making it's rounds across the country via the postal service. 

As far as pollutants from China, I don't purchase food from or processed in China, and you will run into this problem no matter where you shop. The key is reading the label and knowing where the food comes from. For instance, just because canned salmon says it is from Alaska, that doesn't mean it's not processed in China.  You have to read the label carefully to determine this.

I have bought specialty grocery items, such as coffee, spice and condiments online that can't be found locally, that will remain the extent of my food shopping online.

 Online perishable grocery shopping might be an experiment you could conduct and let us know the results of.  If the quality, price, selection, delivery and shipping costs are in line with what I can buy locally, I'm in.  I would love not to have to drive an hour each way to the store and back.  In the meantime, my money is not going there.

 The issue of slave labor in India and Mexico are up to those countries to fix, just as we have to fix and set our own economic policies. Walmart is not forcing those countries to engage in slave labor practices, the people are not enslaved or indentured by Walmart.  It is up to the people of those countries to fix their own political and economic system.  The economic standards are set by the country, not Walmart.

 I am not going on a guilt trip over a third world country's economic policies. We have enough trouble surviving in this country these days. Also, I didn't say price was king. I was lamenting on the lack of viable shopping options in rural areas. If there were options and pricing was a bit higher, but still competitive, I would patronize those places. 

 As it is, the small local grocery store here charges 30-40% higher than Walmart for their store brand items. I buy my produce there and some meats as the quality is far better than Walmart. I shop their ads for some deals weekly. I will not buy fresh meat from Walmart, unless it is frozen turkeys or packaged meats from a known supplier. 

 There are two pharmacies in town which are proud of their drugs, and I don't do personal business in this town where everyone is the target of gossip.   Point in case: My neighbor was recently sued by the local pharmacy to the tune of $5000 for a Medicare mix up. The gossip was all over town before the papers were served. So, local is not always better, doubt this would have happened with a Walmart pharmacy. 

Just saying, there are trade-offs to consider living in a rural area, and you can't paint people who shop at Walmart with a broad brush.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 22, 2013)

I do a lot of shopping online but not for groceries. No telling what condition a package of chicken livers or a T-bone steak would be in by the time the mail came. I don't even go to the mailbox every day.


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## Sid (Nov 22, 2013)

rkunsaw said:


> No telling what condition a package of chicken livers or a T-bone steak would be in by the time the mail came. I don't even go to the mailbox every day.



I send my dog after the mail. You can imagane the problems I'd have.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 22, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Have read some terrible things lately about how Amazon employees are treated . . .



Photos or it never happened. 



> I do shop online but enjoy the human interaction with people at local mom 'n' pop stores.
> 
> Besides, how does one manage shoplifting online . . . ???



Easy - you hack into their database, add your name and addy as a long-standing customer who is awaiting their shipment ... 



Ozarkgal said:


> I don't consider shopping for groceries online a viable alternative. It is super expensive and the choices are limited. I am a hands on shopper and can't give up control to someone else to pick out my cuts of meat, fruits and veggies. Freshness is also another factor, when you buy perishable items in the grocery store, they have already suffered from transit and waiting around on the shelf, add extra shipping time to that for online shopping and the quality is bound to suffer. I don't relish the thought of having a beef roast making it's rounds across the country via the postal service.



OK, all valid points - makes sense. 



> As far as pollutants from China, I don't purchase food from or processed in China, and you will run into this problem no matter where you shop. The key is reading the label and knowing where the food comes from. For instance, just because canned salmon says it is from Alaska, that doesn't mean it's not processed in China.  You have to read the label carefully to determine this.



Very true.



> Online perishable grocery shopping might be an experiment you could conduct and let us know the results of.  If the quality, price, selection, delivery and shipping costs are in line with what I can buy locally, I'm in.  I would love not to have to drive an hour each way to the store and back.  In the meantime, my money is not going there.



Not quite online and certainly not fresh, but for years back when I was married the wife would buy every two weeks from a company named Schwan's. Their freezer truck would come to the door, you'd tell them what you wanted and they'd pull it out of the truck. If they were out they'd bring it the next time. *UPDATE:* Now of course you can shop with them online, which is basically just placing your order ahead of time and them delivering it.

As you can probably imagine with frozen foods, some of them were very good, most were average and a few were "stay away at any cost". Speaking of costs, yes, they cost a bit more on the surface, but you're saving on gas, aggravation, long lines, traffic ... the frozen pizzas were pretty good, the frozen veggies edible and their meats were actually pretty good.

Of course it depends upon one's individual palette - I'm not very choosey, or at least I wasn't back then. If your tastes run more to farm-fresh veggies and freshly slaughtered meats then no, the online shopping "experience" won't do much for you. 

As far as Wal-Mart vs. online grocery shopping, if I still shopped for real groceries instead of bread and butter I'd STILL want to try online buying, just on the principle that I would be denying W-M my chump change. In fact, I'd probably go back to Schwan's. I still order a pizza from them once in a while when they come calling, and although it's a dollar or so more than Domino's and not quite as large it's still a very tasty item. Yeah, I have to fire up the oven to cook it, but hey, that gives me quality time with the cat and dog.  



> The issue of slave labor in India and Mexico are up to those countries to fix, just as we have to fix and set our own economic policies. Walmart is not forcing those countries to engage in slave labor practices, the people are not enslaved or indentured by Walmart.  It is up to the people of those countries to fix their own political and economic system.  The economic standards are set by the country, not Walmart.



Oh, now, c'mon, Ozzie - that's a cop-out! MANY American companies refuse to engage in slave-labor practices - it's an ethical choice one makes when one is setting up the business. W-M _chose_ to go down that dark path in pursuit of the almighty dollar - don't tell me that that is India's (China's, etc.) fault. You wave a roast chicken in front of a starving man's nose he's going to grab for it, even if it means degrading himself in the process. 



> I am not going on a guilt trip over a third world country's economic policies. We have enough trouble surviving in this country these days. Also, I didn't say price was king. I was lamenting on the lack of viable shopping options in rural areas. If there were options and pricing was a bit higher, but still competitive, I would patronize those places.



Maybe that's the trade-off you make living in a rural area - cheaper prices in exchange for your soul. :highly_amused:



> As it is, the small local grocery store here charges 30-40% higher than Walmart for their store brand items. I buy my produce there and some meats as the quality is far better than Walmart. I shop their ads for some deals weekly. I will not buy fresh meat from Walmart, unless it is frozen turkeys or packaged meats from a known supplier.



So you just get your staples from W-M? I suppose that's a start ... 



> There are two pharmacies in town which are proud of their drugs, and I don't do personal business in this town where everyone is the target of gossip.   Point in case: My neighbor was recently sued by the local pharmacy to the tune of $5000 for a Medicare mix up. The gossip was all over town before the papers were served. So, local is not always better, doubt this would have happened with a Walmart pharmacy.



I'm sure W-M has more than their fair share of pharmacy horror stories. 



> Just saying, there are trade-offs to consider living in a rural area, and you can't paint people who shop at Walmart with a broad brush.



LOL - speaking of trade-offs ... no, I don't want to paint everyone with the same broad brush but it's exceedingly difficult not to. It's like allowing a conquering army to take over your county and then meekly go to them for the daily ration of grub. There have to be SOME guerrilla fighters around to even up the score ... This company has got the majority of Americans believing they're the next-best thing to sliced cat's pajamas, when in reality they are just another ruthless, money-hungry mega-corporation with no more scruples than a dog in heat. 



rkunsaw said:


> I do a lot of shopping online but not for groceries. No telling what condition a package of chicken livers or a T-bone steak would be in by the time the mail came. I don't even go to the mailbox every day.



There IS something called dry-ice packaging, ya' know ... layful: 

But yeah, I can see why you'd be concerned if your chicken livers arrived wrapped in only bubble-wrap - sure, it would be fun poking the bubbles but those livers would be kind of sad ...


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## Ozarkgal (Nov 22, 2013)

Phil: 





> Of course it depends upon one's individual palette - I'm not very choosey, or at least I wasn't back then. If your tastes run more to farm-fresh veggies and freshly slaughtered meats then no, the online shopping "experience" won't do much for you.



 My point. Used to have a Schwan's truck come around regularly in Texas. Haven't seen one here, but in any event their prices are spendy and the food isn't something you would want to exist on as a primary source.



> Oh, now, c'mon, Ozzie - that's a cop-out! MANY American companies refuse to engage in slave-labor practices - it's an ethical choice one makes when one is setting up the business. W-M _chose to go down that dark path in pursuit of the almighty dollar - don't tell me that that is India's (China's, etc.) fault. You wave a roast chicken in front of a starving man's nose he's going to grab for it, even if it means degrading himself in the process.
> _



Far and few between are the companies that are so high minded.  A few that do carry exclusively American made or non-third world produced goods, are just that.  Exclusive to the people that can afford to pay the price for their wares.
Who's Ozzie?



> So you just get your staples from W-M? I suppose that's a start ...



And a finish until such time there is a competitor in my area that supply my needs.



> This company has got the majority of Americans believing they're the next-best thing to sliced cat's pajamas, when in reality they are just another ruthless, money-hungry mega-corporation with no more scruples than a dog in heat.



Isn't this the American way now?  Screw unto others before they screw unto you.  This idealism is promoted by crooked, ruthless politicians who are in the pockets of these corporations.  

I know you may view this as a cop out, but I am way past the point of caring about any of it.  There is absolutely nothing I can do to fix a system that has been sliding downhill toward hell for years.  Maybe I'm like the starving man degrading himself for a roast chicken.  






> Maybe that's the trade-off you make living in a rural area - cheaper prices in exchange for your soul. :highly_amused:



I just want to live my life as far away and detached from it all as possible..

Because we're friends, I'll forgive you for this crass remark.  With this, I'm done here.nthego:


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## SifuPhil (Nov 22, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Phil:
> 
> My point. Used to have a Schwan's truck come around regularly in Texas. Haven't seen one here, but in any event their prices are spendy and the food isn't something you would want to exist on as a primary source.



Tell that to my ex-. 

Their prices aren't THAT bad, compared to say eating out or shopping at Dean & Deluca.  




> Far and few between are the companies that are so high minded.  A few that do carry exclusively American made or non-third world produced goods, are just that.  Exclusive to the people that can afford to pay the price for their wares.



Or that choose to play the world awareness game.



> Who's Ozzie?



You are, of course. 




> And a finish until such time there is a competitor in my area that supply my needs.



Don't want to pay those few extra dollars at the local store, huh? 





> Isn't this the American way now?  Screw unto others before they screw unto you.  This idealism is promoted by crooked, ruthless politicians who are in the pockets of these corporations.



Very true.



> I know you may view this as a cop out, but I am way past the point of caring about any of it.  There is absolutely nothing I can do to fix a system that has been sliding downhill toward hell for years.  Maybe I'm like the starving man degrading himself for a roast chicken.



No, I understand what you're saying. I'm the same way in a lot of things - I just don't give two rat's butts anymore about a lot of topics.



> I just want to live my life as far away and detached from it all as possible..



Also understandable.



> Because we're friends, I'll forgive you for this crass remark.  With this, I'm done here.nthego:



Crass? Moi?!? 

*crass*

kras/

_adjective_
adjective: *crass*; comparative adjective: *crasser*; superlative adjective: *crassest*
*1*. 
lacking sensitivity, refinement, or intelligence.
"the crass assumptions that men make about women"

synonyms:stupid, insensitive, mindless, thoughtless, ignorant, witless, oafish, boorish, asinine, coarse, gross, graceless, tasteless, tactless, clumsy, heavy-handed, blundering 




I am NOT clumsy!


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