# How Does One Afford Assisted Living?



## Lon (May 7, 2018)

When you no longer have to pay Property Taxes, utilities, home owners insurance, gardener,house keeper, cable/wifi, food, and have Social Security and pension coupled with the interest earned on your home sale invested assets you will find that it is not difficult to come up with the monthly fee for Assisted Living without paying any UP Front Endowment Fee.


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## Buckeye (May 7, 2018)

According to AARP, 1 in 3 Seniors struggle to meet basic needs, so for them not having to pay the gardener and house keeper won't help much.


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## Aunt Bea (May 7, 2018)

Five to six grand a month is a pretty big, if not impossible, nut to crack for most seniors.

I'm wondering if Oakmont or similar places offer any inflation protection that limits future increases in the monthly rates.

When my mother was in assisted living her annual rate went from $42k/year to $50k/year in the three years that she lived there.


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## applecruncher (May 7, 2018)

> Property Taxes, utilities, home owners insurance, gardener,house keeper, cable/wifi, food​



For most people, the total of these expenses - even IF they have a gardener & housekeeper - is nowhere near the cost of living in an assisted living facility.


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## Marie5656 (May 7, 2018)

*Right now my husband and I live in my house...a double wide mobile home.  We have no property or school taxes, but also no equity as it is not considered a "permanent" structure as we do not own the land we live on.  We still pay $500 a month lot rent.  I am the gardener and housekeeper.   Not a lot of assets, but we figured out that with our monthly income, we will do OK.
Assisted living in a place like Oakmont, is probably out of the question.  My brother and I were discussing my future, with the assumption that sadly, I will probably outlive my husband.  My brother reminded me that where I would like to live after, and where I could afford to live are two different places.
*


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## Shalimar (May 7, 2018)

Lon said:


> When you no longer have to pay Property Taxes, utilities, home owners insurance, gardener,house keeper, cable/wifi, food, and have Social Security and pension coupled with the interest earned on your home sale invested assets you will find that it is not difficult to come up with the monthly fee for Assisted Living without paying any UP Front Endowment Fee.


Most people can’t afford that standard of living before they retire.


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## rgp (May 7, 2018)

I can't figure out how my mother did it ?...Her total retirement income, SS & pension was $414...p/mo...yes I helped her when she was short [inside joke ...she was only 5' tall]  But she never asked for or needed [that] much. She lived in 3 different ones, and they ALL were nice...efficiency style apts. 

This was back in the mid-late 90's....Have they gone up in price that bad ?


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## Aunt Bea (May 7, 2018)

This link has a calculator to get an idea of costs in your area and also some information on Medicaid programs that can help to subsidize the cost in some of the more basic facilities.

[video]https://www.payingforseniorcare.com/longtermcare/costs.html[/video]

My plan is to piece together enough assistance to stay independent as long as possible and then head for an assisted living facility similar to Lon's for the last few, very few, years.

We'll see!


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## Don M. (May 7, 2018)

Lon said:


> When you no longer have to pay Property Taxes, utilities, home owners insurance, gardener,house keeper, cable/wifi, food, and have Social Security and pension coupled with the interest earned on your home sale invested assets you will find that it is not difficult to come up with the monthly fee for Assisted Living without paying any UP Front Endowment Fee.



Virtually everyone, who is not on welfare, pays the Above mentioned taxes and fees...irregardless of whether they are in their own house, or renting or living in a assisted living center.  The primary difference is that while home owners have to pay the monthly/annual bills and taxes, those bills and taxes are "bundled" into the cost of the Assisted living arrangement.  The owners of these assisted living facilities have to pay the costs of taxes, utilities, upkeep, and food, etc, etc., and those costs are "hidden" in the monthly charges to the residents of the facility.  There is No free lunch.  

https://www.homeadvisor.com/article.show.What-is-the-Cost-of-Assisted-Living-Facilities.17133.html


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## hollydolly (May 8, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> According to AARP, 1 in 3 Seniors struggle to meet basic needs, so for them not having to pay the gardener and house keeper won't help much.



That was my _First_ thought....


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## ray188 (May 8, 2018)

hollydolly said:


> That was my _First_ thought....


I believe that Medicaid assists.


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## Aunt Bea (May 8, 2018)

ray188 said:


> I believe that Medicaid assists.



They do in New York at some facilities, if it has been determined that it is medically necessary to enter assisted living or skilled care and a person does not have sufficient income or assets to cover it. 

When my mother was in assisted living she paid the full freight and many of her neighbors received the exact same care under Medicaid. At the time Medicaid required all income over $50.00/month to go towards care and they would cover the difference. That worked out for the folks that had a family or close friends to help subsidize some little items along the way but $50.00/month for clothing, haircuts, personal care and the odd bag of cookies or candy is pretty grim. The state was reviewing a bill to increase the amount but I'm not sure if it has been changed at this point.


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## Lon (May 8, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> Five to six grand a month is a pretty big, if not impossible, nut to crack for most seniors.
> 
> I'm wondering if Oakmont or similar places offer any inflation protection that limits future increases in the monthly rates.
> 
> When my mother was in assisted living her annual rate went from $42k/year to $50k/year in the three years that she lived there.



No inflation protection here at Oakmont but I am not concerned about that. I have COLA's on my pensions and have been able to keep investments ahead of inflation, also, I have not had to use my LTC policy yet.


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## Aunt Bea (May 8, 2018)

Lon said:


> No inflation protection here at Oakmont but I am not concerned about that. I have COLA's on my pensions and have been able to keep investments ahead of inflation, also, I have not had to use my LTC policy yet.



Thanks, Lon

You are very fortunate, it sounds like you have your bases covered.

I'm hoping that I can keep my stay in AL and skilled care within the national averages, if that happens I will be ok and if not I'll have to depend on the kindness of strangers!!!


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## Lethe200 (May 8, 2018)

Doing some financial planning helped us. We probably made less $$$$ income than 90% of our friends and relatives, but doing a financial plan and some good luck (which happily outweighed the bad luck in our lives) got us to a good point in retirement.

We're starting to look around at AL places since we can see the time is coming to give up the SFH and downsize. Like Lon, we have LTCi so we can do Type A or Type C contracts (you can read about the differences here: https://www.aicpastore.com/Content/...rticles_2010/CPA/Sep/ProspectiveResidents.jsp

One thing to keep in mind: in our area, every AL facility we researched for my MIL, did not take Medicaid patients *at all.* If a resident ran out of funds, some facilities forced those people out immediately. Others would keep them as residents/patients, and apply to Medicaid for whatever partial reimbursement they could get. The latter facilities had "charity funds" that were used for those who had run out of money.

Also, some AL facilities are strict about who they will admit. At some we met with, if you could not pass a basic physical - meaning you were mostly independent but needed mild-to-moderate help with non-critical issues - you could not be considered for residency. We were surprised at this, although it makes sense since most have a limited # of skilled care nursing beds.


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## Robusta (May 11, 2018)

Lon said:


> When you no longer have to pay Property Taxes, utilities, home owners insurance, gardener,house keeper, cable/wifi, food, and have Social Security and pension coupled with the interest earned on your home sale invested assets you will find that it is not difficult to come up with the monthly fee for Assisted Living without paying any UP Front Endowment Fee.



Lon, you seem to fail to realize how fortunate you are compared to most others. Whether you gained your wealth through inheritance/hard work, dumb luck or a combination of all,you are not typical of most seniors.  Your affluence resonates through most of your posts,and at times it seem as though you have no basis of understanding the less fortunate among us.


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## Lethe200 (May 12, 2018)

Robusta said:


> Lon, you seem to fail to realize how fortunate you are compared to most others. Whether you gained your wealth through inheritance/hard work, dumb luck or a combination of all,you are not typical of most seniors.  Your affluence resonates through most of your posts,and at times it seem as though you have no basis of understanding the less fortunate among us.



I'm sorry, but I disagree. I think Lon is aware that he is fortunate. We are too. It would be silly to be ashamed of being able to afford a good life in retirement. I'm sure we all know "there but for the grace of God...."

That kind of envious carping is ungenerous.


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## Lon (May 12, 2018)

Robusta said:


> Lon, you seem to fail to realize how fortunate you are compared to most others. Whether you gained your wealth through inheritance/hard work, dumb luck or a combination of all,you are not typical of most seniors.  Your affluence resonates through most of your posts,and at times it seem as though you have no basis of understanding the less fortunate among us.



You are so wrong!!  I am fully aware of where I stand in relation to others and feel no guilt about it and the fact that my posts do not reflect a sympathetic attitude towards the less fortunate is not an accident.


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## LogicsHere (Jun 14, 2018)

I'm hoping that I can stay in my apartment and hire part-time helpers for a while.  Since I only have a 1 bedroom, a live-in is pretty much out of the question as they want their own room and a make-do sofa bed in the living isn't going to cut it.  Having been through the nursing home scene when I was looking after my mother, I think I could deal with an assisted living situation, but I would also like my own "apartment" type.  Don't think I'd want to share.  But I would have to find a place that I could afford and go in without having to pay any extra fees or buy-ins etc.  Actually now that I have been through the aging process with my mom it's starting to scare me.  Have no idea what the distant or maybe even not too distant future will bring.


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## Shalimar (Jun 14, 2018)

Lon said:


> You are so wrong!!  I am fully aware of where I stand in relation to others and feel no guilt about it and the fact that my posts do not reflect a sympathetic attitude towards the less fortunate is not an accident.


Wow. Just, wow. Good on you for your situation. Absolutely no reason you should feel any guilt, but, “the fact that my posts do not reflect a sympathetic attitude toward the less fortunate is not an accident,” whew.


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## Lara (Jun 15, 2018)

That bothered me too, shalimar. Is there a typo in there we're missing? 

I mean, who would think like that and if they do who would admit it...and with such gusto to boot.

Lon, did you really mean to say that you feel no guilt for not showing any sympathetic attitude in your posts for the less fortunate?


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## DaveA (Jun 15, 2018)

“the fact that my posts do not reflect a sympathetic attitude toward the less fortunate is not an accident,”

This is by far the most insensitive post that I've seen in all of my years on senior forums or in person. I agree with one point, no one needs feel any guilt for being successful, but to look down with scorn on those less fortunate is IMO beyond the pale.  

Some of the folks on here are open and asking for advice because for whatever reason, they find themselves struggling.  I'm not one of them (at present) but I would think twice about opening up about  any problems if this is the scorn that I would receive in return.


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## Olivia (Jun 15, 2018)

Frankly, I'm starting to understand Giantsfan's remark about how cranky some "elders" can get. I think some of "us" just don't really stop to think anymore about being tactful. Too much work. :sleeping:


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## Kitties (Jun 15, 2018)

I certainly agree with those in awe at Lon's post. I'm not sure what the issue is. My mother was not unsympathetic herself but even she seemed to forget that her 5-6 hundred a month in social security was not what kept them going. It was my stepfather's county retirement and his social security.

Assisted living is very expensive. Even my stepfather's income falls short of the starting rate in the low 3000.  These places are sadly big money makers for someone.


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## Shalimar (Jun 15, 2018)

Kitties said:


> I certainly agree with those in awe at Lon's post. I'm not sure what the issue is. My mother was not unsympathetic herself but even she seemed to forget that her 5-6 hundred a month in social security was not what kept them going. It was my stepfather's county retirement and his social security.
> 
> Assisted living is very expensive. Even my stepfather's income falls short of the starting rate in the low 3000.  These places are sadly big money makers for someone.


Sad, really.


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## applecruncher (Jun 15, 2018)

DaveA said:


> “the fact that my posts do not reflect a sympathetic attitude toward the less fortunate is not an accident,”
> 
> This is by far the most insensitive post that I've seen in all of my years on senior forums or in person. I agree with one point, no one needs feel any guilt for being successful, but to look down with scorn on those less fortunate is IMO beyond the pale.
> 
> Some of the folks on here are open and asking for advice because for whatever reason, they find themselves struggling.  I'm not one of them (at present) but I would think twice about opening up about  any problems if this is the scorn that I would receive in return.



You wouldn't get scornful remarks from _most_ people...most on this site are not like that.

The comment about being able to afford assisted living if you "don't have to pay the gardener and housekeeper" says a *lot*.


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## C'est Moi (Jun 15, 2018)

applecruncher said:


> You wouldn't get scornful remarks from _most_ people...most on this site are not like that.
> 
> The comment about being able to afford assisted living if you "don't have to pay the gardener and housekeeper" says a *lot*.



Dramatic exit, anyone??   :lol:   "Chives, bring the limo around."


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## applecruncher (Jun 15, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> Dramatic exit, anyone??   :lol:   "Chives, bring the limo around."



Yeah, but isn't it "Jeeves"? :laugh: (or maybe "Nigel") :whome:


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## Shalimar (Jun 15, 2018)

IMO, truly wealthy rarely advertise their good fortune, or condemn less fortunate. Considered bad manners. Oprah, for example.


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## applecruncher (Jun 15, 2018)

Wealth is relative, and I doubt Oprah, Bill Gates, etc. spend much time on internet forums.

However, there are some obnoxious people who are financially well-off and like to remind others about their own success and good fortune. Not that unusual.

Look, I'm not going to bat this back and forth. The point has been made.


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## Shalimar (Jun 15, 2018)

applecruncher said:


> Wealth is relative, and I doubt Oprah, Bill Gates, etc. spend much time on internet forums.
> 
> However, there are some obnoxious people who are financially well-off and like to remind others about their own success and good fortune. Not that unusual.
> 
> Look, I'm not going to bat this back and forth. The point has been made.


Have a nice day.


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## Vinny (Jun 21, 2018)

Most cannot afford assisted living. What we did was to get my mom on Medicaid and placed her into a State run Nursing home where my cousin works and keeps and eye on her. She is doing very well at 87 with Dementia. My dad refused to go anywhere. He wanted to die at home and so we arranged for nurses and Aids to stop by to check on him as well as doctors making house calls. My sister saw him almost daily and he died at the age of 90, the night before he was going to be involuntarily sent to a nursing home because he started hallucinating. 

Around here assisted nursing places are luxurious. The wealthier people enter them at a young age since it is like living in a hotel. They get most of their meals prepared for them and maid service. There is an inside parking garage and buses to take them on trips. As they get older the amount of care increases accordingly. I am investing just for this reason. Plus I have no mortgage or children to save for so we should have enough saved for a few years of assisted living, maybe more depending on the Stock Market.


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## oldmontana (Jun 21, 2018)

We have long term care insurance that covers me for two years and my wife for three years.  We took out the insurance in 1999. Costs $1,569.00 a year that covers both of us.  Covers $209.00 a day,for each of us which would not be enough today but it would pay a good share.  It also covers home care.  

We hope that we never need to use it but feel better knowing we have it and will be able to leave some money to our children.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 22, 2018)

Lon said:


> You are so wrong!!  I am fully aware of where I stand in relation to others and feel no guilt about it and the fact that my posts do not reflect a sympathetic attitude towards the less fortunate is not an accident.


Seriously Lon? Does that mean you intend to rub your good fortune in the face of others less fortunate? Be grateful, not hateful !


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 4, 2019)

As far as I know there are many types of funding for assisted senior living and as usual it depends on your income.  It also depends on what state you live in and how much state funding you can get.  My mother is 94, gets around 1000 in social security, and receives Medicare and Medicaid. 

She lives in government housing, not assisted living, and receives a housing voucher to help pay for the rent.  There are two programs that supply her food, and the food is delivered to her apartment.  If she moved into assisted living, she would get approx. 35 dollars a month, but everything else would be paid for.  She refuses to go to assisted living.

I have two, disabled from birth, sons who live in group homes.  While group homes differ from assisted living, and the funding is similar the laws are different.  If they become seniors, they will still live in group homes and will not be required to move.  Now that my husband gets social security, they get a combination of funds from social security and SSI.

The boys (lol, in their 30's) also get Medicare and Medicaid.  One of my sons is on the waiting list for a housing voucher-seven year wait in our state.  The voucher would reduce his rent and give him more spending money.  When my husband dies, their income will increase a great deal, but they will still live in their homes as "spend downs" will occur so that they can still qualify.

I wonder, if you are an elderly disabled person, if you could get funding for a group home placement instead of an assisted living placement.  One of my sons is total care.

As for a nursing home placement, I spendt 24 hours in a nursing home last summer.  Was supposed to stay 2 months.  I'd rather be dead.  In fact, at my exit interview, I was asked if being there had changed my mind on my DNI/DNR orders.  Yes, I replied, it had.  I was more sure than ever that I'd rather be dead.


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## jujube (Mar 4, 2019)

Gardener? Housekeeper?  Whaaaaa?   Both of them are "me" and if I had to lay them off it wouldn't save much money as I'm a cheapskate and don't pay them very well.


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## Buckeye (Mar 4, 2019)

Lon, the OP, has been MIA since last June.  I hope he is okay, and just found a place more to his liking.


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## applecruncher (Mar 4, 2019)

Lon was banned.


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## WhatInThe (Mar 4, 2019)

Some people really really need assisted living. Others just need regular help. I've talked to people in the medical industry regarding home care and they said the goal is to keep patients out of a hospital and/or setting. They say it's actually better and cheaper to send  nurses and therapists out to someone's home on a regular basis. Focus on keeping regular insurance up. Concentrate on remaining independent as long as possible no matter what friends and family have done. If the doctor prescribes it one can get routine home visitations for medical and light cleaning etc. See if friends and family can help out. I understand that some will actually need it but too many have been groomed, brainwashed or misinformed that assisted living facilities is where we all will and 'should' go.

Ive read several articles on the long term care industry over the last several years and many think the industry has peaked due to costs. They long term care insurance will wind up going up significantly to offset the declining use.

But this goes back to a reason to continue to work on investing or even working a bit.


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## jujube (Mar 4, 2019)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Lon, the OP, has been MIA since last June.  I hope he is okay, and just found a place more to his liking.



He's active over on the "other" senior forum.


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## Lethe200 (Mar 9, 2019)

It's a good idea not to mix up the terms for senior/eldercare facilities. In the U.S., there are many different types of facilities, some for-profit and fewer that are non-profit. 

The general categories are:
- Independent living, such a senior community facility or development. "Over 55+" designations are usually used.
- Assisted living, which can be defined in many different ways. Different facilities will have different rules for determining what amount of "assistance" is provided versus what is charged extra for. 
- Skilled Care, which is what "nursing homes" and "convalescent facilities" are classified under.
- Memory Care, specifically 24/7 for the dementia-afflicted. Rates charged are usually the same as Skilled Care, but not always.

Senior facilities can be any combination of the above. States determine licensing standards, so what is "legal" in your state may not be applicable to another state's laws. 

Although Medicaid rates Skilled Care facilities, they do NOT rate Assisted Living facilities. Some states inspect and rate all types of senior facilities, but some do not. The ones that do, usually post ratings on state websites. If your state does this, it's one of the first places you should research to select a facility, but especially for Skilled Care/Convalescent and Memory Care.

Asst Living costs vary widely according to individual facilities. I live in a high-labor cost state, and AL facilities cost from 50% to 65% of SCare/MCare.

As far as I know there are no federal or state programs that will grant funds for AL. There are often state or county programs that offer financial help for at-home care, so there may be a local governmental program somewhere that gives $$$ for private facility-based AL. 

I can only say in my state, such programs are for at-home care only, restricted to those in financial need - essentially Medicaid-based care. If a senior doesn't qualify for Medicaid, any AL costs must be personally paid for.

It is not wise to assume that if you can afford to pay for a full-service seniorcare facility, that if you live there for a while, even if you eventually run out of $$$ the facility will "have to keep you as a patient if you need nursing care". _*I do not think any post *_to this discussion said this, but I know I have read this kind of statement on several different senior forums by more than one person. 

This is probably dependent upon state laws, but I can say unequivocally it is NOT true in my state. We researched a number of eldercare facilities in 2014 for my MIL, and of 9 facilities, four said in response to my question, that any resident who could no longer afford their charges, had to move out.

What may cause confusion is that unless the facility actually closes up (which on rare cases has happened), the facility cannot just "dump" a patient out on the street, according to MOST states' laws. However, what they can do is put that patient's name on a waitlist for a Medicaid-only facility, and as soon as that patient is accepted, they are moved out.

Interestingly, we found that monthly rents for units in seniorcare facilities didn't differ much between the for-profits and non-profits. But once patients moved into Skilled Care/Conv and Memory Care, there was a BIG gap between the two types of companies. For-profits were 15-20+% higher in monthly cost.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 13, 2019)

rgp said:


> I can't figure out how my mother did it ?...Her total retirement income, SS & pension was $414...p/mo...yes I helped her when she was short [inside joke ...she was only 5' tall]  But she never asked for or needed [that] much. She lived in 3 different ones, and they ALL were nice...efficiency style apts.
> 
> This was back in the mid-late 90's....Have they gone up in price that bad ?


Maybe there was a program that provided financial assistance to live there.  I doubt very seriously the escalation in prices were that much since the 90's.  My mom lived quite nicely on $600 SS a month. She had saved money via U.S. bonds and a bank account when she was working. She lived in a nice public housing apartment across the street from my apartment.  Public housing only takes 33% of your income. Also she was on the PAAD prescription plan so that even her most expensive medications only cost her $5 each. She was always impeccably dressed and never asked me for a dime. When it was necessary for her to go into a nursing home, she paid the first few months out of pocket and after that they let her stay courtesy of medicaid. It was a nice place too.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 13, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> Lon was banned.


Banned? Really? Do we know why?


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