# Men are denied the greatest joy in life in that they can't give birth!



## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

Women will tell you that giving birth is the greatest thing in the world.  Not necessarily the the pregnancy or the delivery which can be bothersome and painful, but bringing new life on the earth.  Men have nothing like it in comparison.  Makes sense to me and it probably does for you...


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## Warrigal (Oct 6, 2014)

Completely true, Ralphy.
To say "I am now a mother" is a very different thing to knowing that one has become a father. 
Both experiences are wonderful but at the same time not really comparable.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

And I note that women relive this experience to a great degree when they become grandmothers...


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## Warrigal (Oct 6, 2014)

Not really. 

 I was present at the births of two of my six grandchildren and it was terrifying.
 Not the same experience at all. It was probably closer to the experience of fathers.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

I did not mean being present at the actual birth but the vicarious exaltation of the experience.  And, fortunately, men weren't in the room when my kids were born, and I am glad that I wasn't...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2014)

When it was happening.... I wished I wasn't either... but I didn't have a choice.  


Isn't it enough men control everything else... NOW they are jealous of the birth process?   I say... anytime they want to take over that.... go for it.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

No, not the physical process, but the intense bond between mother and baby...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2014)

It's biology.... not magic


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

Biology is destiny and men got short changed...


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## Warrigal (Oct 6, 2014)

So did women. I guess that is why they are supposed to complement each other as helpmates.


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## JustQuinn (Oct 6, 2014)

Biology  is  not  destiny.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

If biology is not destiny what is?


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Biology is destiny and men got short changed...



Oh sure... short changed are ya?..  Men control nearly every government.. Men far outweigh the women in Corporate executive positions.. Men make more money than women for the same jobs..  I believe nearly 30% more.. and even more in the case of women of color.  Men's bodies are not the subject of debate and regulation.   Men who rape, have their victims as much on trial as they are.  Men control women by the simple fact of biology.. as the majority of the poor are single mothers.  So now... WHO has been short changed?  I think men can pay lip service to the "miracle of birth and motherhood"  but other than that, I sincerely doubt there is a single one of you who REALLY would like to be a woman.  While I can think of many many women who have said.."next time.. I would like to come back as a man"


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

But the miracle of birth and motherhood probably gives the greatest satisfaction of all...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> But the miracle of birth and motherhood probably gives the greatest satisfaction of all...



Not much consolation if you are poor and hungry.  Most welfare and food stamp recipients are single mothers and their children... and that is being chipped away at little by little with cuts.  It amazes me how pregnancy and birth are SOOOO glorified and the aftermath of physical care of the mother and child are so maligned and resented.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

Comparing those pour souls with the middle class ladies who plan way in advance and plan a family according to their means and family stability is a tangent that does not have merit...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2014)

Well Ralphy.... I understand that there is a way men can simulate the experience... Some men have actually strapped on a "pregnancy suit" to be able to empathize with their pregnant wives..   The rest I'm told involves something about a vice and testicles... lol!!!  

NO... Ralphy.... I'll concede..   Men can't really be mothers, but to lament this in light of all the advantages men have over women, including the middle class woman who practices family planning..  has no merit either.


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## Warrigal (Oct 6, 2014)

Let's see Ralphy. I'll give you an outline of my first birth experience and you can decide how satisfying you would find it.

At midnight, one week before my due date,  my waters broke, which is an indication that you should go immediately to hospital so my husband drove me there with my suitcase. He was dismissed by the Sister on duty and I was taken in, shaved and then given an enema. Both experiences were new to me and very embarrassing, humiliating even. I was 20 yo at the time and not very sophisticated. I was put to bed in the general maternity ward and must have been given some knockout drops to make me sleep.

Labour started sometime the next day but I was still groggy until around 5.00 pm and was unable to sit up to eat meals that were put before me and as far as I know did not drink either. In my befuddled state I decided that I was hot and I remember removing my hospital gown and throwing it on the floor in front of other patients visitors. 

That's when they decided to move me down to a delivery room. As I said, by evening the fog in my head lifted and I was thereafter able to control my actions. Contractions were strong and I tried to do the right thing with the breathing but I was alone in the delivery room. Nurses looked in from time to time and helpfully took a look at the business end. More than once they encouraged me by telling me that my baby had black hair. 

My doctor was apparently on holiday so they brought in someone else. I have no idea who he was. He might have been a locum or he may have been on duty that night but he was a tanned man with hairy arms and I thought he looked like a gardener.  Then my contractions stopped because I was quite exhausted, having had no nourishment for 24 hours. They offered me some orange juice which I drank, then projectile vomited over someone in the room. I apologised.

Eventually the contractions began again and I pushed and pushed but had trouble holding up my head because I was pretty exhausted. I remember a nurse with a Chinese face who held my head up to help me push. Just before my baby emerged they held a mask over my face and told me to breathe deeply. It was something like ether and I began to float but was still alert. I thought they were about to cut me open and in mild panic I muttered "I'm still conscious" to warn them that the anaesthetic hadn't yet taken effect. I had no idea that the mask beside the bed could have been used during labour for pain relief. No-one told me.

My baby was born around 10.00 pm but was not shown to me. I did not get to hold her that night. Her birth weight, I found out later, was a hefty 8 pound 15 1/2 ounces. I was a small woman just 5 ft 1 1/2 in tall but blessed with what people described as a magnificent set of child bearing hips.  

They took her away to the nursery and proceeded to attend to me, afterbirth, stitches etc. Then everyone buggered off and left me alone again. Around midnight I was returned to the ward but could not sleep easily. I felt I had to lie on my back all night lest my poor overstretched abdominal organs fall out. It was the weirdest feeling.

Next morning, at 6 am trolleys of babies were wheeled out of the nursery and mine was not there. She didn't show up until 10 am, a full 12 hours after the birth. That was the first time I saw her and was able check out the number of fingers, toes etc. I had been needlessly worried because I feared she might have deformed feet because I had a cousin who was born with club feet. 

Finally, hubby was allowed in to visit me for one hour at 2.00 pm i.e. during normal visiting hours. 

Ralphy, if this is the experience you envy, I wish you all the best. Perhaps in your next incarnation?


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

You guys are going off the track.  I have already said that I wouldn't want to go thru pregnancy and delivery but you have to agree that women have an experience when they see and hold their baby that is unique...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2014)

Ralphy...  Let me give you a way to experience birth..   First.. strap yourself down to a hard table...Put your legs in the air..  NOW.. take both your hands and grasp your lower lip... firmly..   NEXT... Pull your lower lip up.. and over the top of your head...


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## Debby (Oct 6, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> But the miracle of birth and motherhood probably gives the greatest satisfaction of all...




The downside that most ignore is all the mechanics of what makes this miracle possible and I'm betting there aren't too many women who exult over that.  Having to deal with the misery of menses every 28 days for 30 or 40 years, and after that all the aggravations of menopause (years of hot flashes, weight gain, dry skin, thinning hair, other hairs that start growing where they never used to...) and if we're lucky after all of this, our kids don't stick us in a nursing home and ignore us til it's time to read the will!

Boy, doesn't that sound a little jaundiced and cynical!  But seriously Ralph, I appreciate where you're coming from....as a matter of fact, the last dream I had before I woke up this morning included my daughter having our second little grand baby (so cute!) and walking into her hospital room to see our grandson balancing his new little sister up against his upraised legs while he laid on mom's bed on his back (horrifying! She's too new, you can't play with her like she's a football!)  Dreams are so weird aren't they?

But yeah, there's no beating the supernatural, wonderfully, weird feeling of that little individual stretching and rolling around in there!  Very cool but one that's only for women.  Sorry guys.


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## Warrigal (Oct 6, 2014)

No Ralphy, you are the one who has failed to see what the track is. 
I'm pretty sure my husband also felt a rush of love when he was eventually allowed to hold his baby daughter. 
I don't think that feeling is gender specific. It is a bit like falling in love for the first time, all over again.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

Yes, even the dream experiences of women and men are different when it comes to babies; in fact, I never had any dreams about babies and I doubt that men do...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Yes, even the dream experiences of women and men are different when it comes to babies; in fact, I never had any dreams about babies and I doubt that men do...



Me neither... but I have had dreams of discovering I was pregnant!   That went straight into the nightmare classification. Unless you think waking up in a cold sweat is a wonderful experience.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

Feeligs of love on the part of both genders is there, but the experience that leads to the whole maternal experience dictated by biology is different, namely, estrogen...


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## Capt Lightning (Oct 6, 2014)

You could just just as easily say that women will never have the joy of being fathers.
Of course men can't give birth, but that does not deny them the same pleasures and pains of parenthood.  

My children were born at home and I was present at their births.  There was nothing shocking or horrific about seeing our children being born into his world and  I was able to hold them when they were only minutes old.   Subsequently I took my turn at giving them their feeds, bathing them, changing nappies, seeing them take their first steps, reading them bedtime stories  etc...

I don't feel in the least deprived.


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## oakapple (Oct 6, 2014)

Ralphy, I bet you are surprised by the turn this thread has taken?That's because you don't understand what we women have gone through, or your own wife had easy births?My own births were difficult and painful, with a lot of worry involved. I really don't think it's any better being a Mother than a Father.I know what you are trying to say though.I once asked my husband if he would like to come back as a woman next time and he was horrified by the suggestion.


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## Debby (Oct 6, 2014)

Capt Lightning said:


> You could just just as easily say that women will never have the joy of being fathers.
> Of course men can't give birth, but that does not deny them the same pleasures and pains of parenthood.
> 
> My children were born at home and I was present at their births.  There was nothing shocking or horrific about seeing our children being born into his world and  I was able to hold them when they were only minutes old.   Subsequently I took my turn at giving them their feeds, bathing them, changing nappies, seeing them take their first steps, reading them bedtime stories  etc...
> ...





Awww, you sound like such a good dad!


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 6, 2014)

That is a nice anecdotal story but it is not the norm...


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## Meanderer (Oct 6, 2014)

I agree with the Captain, there's enough emotion and joy to go around!  Our children were born in a hospital and when our youngest daughter was born, I was allowed to be in the room.  Being in the room at the beginning of my child's life was overwhelming!


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## Davey Jones (Oct 6, 2014)

re:Men are denied the greatest joy in life in that they can't give birth!

Im just glad I wasnt in the room with her giving birth,I should have but wasnt.

Why?? when they put stiches on my daughters forehead,I fainted.  Thats enough for me.


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## Misty (Oct 6, 2014)

See what you are missing, Ralphy


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## Butterfly (Oct 7, 2014)

Ralphy, I think you said the delivery was "bothersome?"  A runny nose is bothersome -- labor and delivery HURTS LIKE HELL and goes on for hours and hours and hours -- there is absolutely no glamor whatsoever in labor and delivery!  Mom isn't lying there thinking about joyfully bringing a child into the world, she is lying there feeling like her guts are being ripped out, hour after hour.

There is the joy of holding the child the first time, but don't fathers get that, too, I mean if they want their children? 

If you men would like to take over childbearing, you've sure got my OK!  And probably the OK of most women I know!  You can also have all the GYN problems and periods and cramps, and the mess that all that entails, too.  Shortchanged??!   Humph!!!


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 7, 2014)

I agree that women get a biological raw deal compared to men but I feel that their reward is greater.  This is hard to articulate but is evident in talking to women...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 7, 2014)

Butterfly said:


> Ralphy, I think you said the delivery was "bothersome?"  A runny nose is bothersome -- labor and delivery HURTS LIKE HELL and goes on for hours and hours and hours -- there is absolutely no glamor whatsoever in labor and delivery!  Mom isn't lying there thinking about joyfully bringing a child into the world, she is lying there feeling like her guts are being ripped out, hour after hour.
> 
> There is the joy of holding the child the first time, but don't fathers get that, too, I mean if they want their children?
> 
> If you men would like to take over childbearing, you've sure got my OK!  And probably the OK of most women I know!  You can also have all the GYN problems and periods and cramps, and the mess that all that entails, too.  Shortchanged??!   Humph!!!




For sure... but we brought it on ourselves.... you know... Eve and that pesky apple and all..


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## QuickSilver (Oct 7, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> I agree that women get a biological raw deal compared to men but I feel that their reward is greater.  This is hard to articulate but is evident in talking to women...




OH BS.....  Sure.. it's great to hold that sweet baby in your arms.. However, that baby does not remain sweet for long..  AND the rewards for giving another human being all your heart, and soul and everything else you have to give are far and few between.   You DO realize these beloved offspring turn into teenagers who despite all the love and care can be the nastiest folks.  These little cherubs grow up and leave and PERHAPS call.. or visit OR maybe send a mothers day card... maybe not..   I'm not saying most of us wouldn't do it all again if we had the choice... but I can tell you... some of us wouldn't..  If anyone thinks becoming a mother is going to get you  unconditional love  and respect, as well as endless rainbows and unicorms  from the little darlin' they are living in a dream world..


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 7, 2014)

Well, seeing that Eve was a tramp, it is all your gender's fault and you should take full responsibility...


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## Warrigal (Oct 7, 2014)

Ralphy, your habit of calling women sluts and tramps is not an endearing trait. :what:


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 7, 2014)

Hmm, now that is a stretch, certainly that has never been applied to the ladies on these forums...


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## Debby (Oct 7, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Well, seeing that Eve was a tramp, it is all your gender's fault and you should take full responsibility...




I have always contended that in a paternalistic culture (which the Bible portrays throughout), Adam was at fault for not doing his 'duty' and being present to remind his wife that the apple was off limits.  Probably had his lazy backside parked on the couch as he waited for her to call him for dinner!  Another way of looking at it.


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## Debby (Oct 7, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> OH BS..... If anyone thinks becoming a mother is going to get you  unconditional love  and respect, as well as endless rainbows and unicorms  from the little darlin' they are living in a dream world..




The love and respect comes back once they grow up and they say something like:  "I never could figure out (when I was a kid) why you had all those stupid rules Mom, but now I understand.  You were right.".  That finally came after the second baby was born.  It's like computers, you get out what you put in.  It's just there is usually a very long gap between childhood and that moment, while you wait and wonder if it 'took'.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 7, 2014)

Debby said:


> The love and respect comes back once they grow up and they say something like: "I never could figure out (when I was a kid) why you had all those stupid rules Mom, but now I understand. You were right.". That finally came after the second baby was born. It's like computers, you get out what you put in. It's just there is usually a very long gap between childhood and that moment, while you wait and wonder if it 'took'.



Oh sure.... that's true..  BUT.. face it..  the heartache and worry moments far far outnumber the warm fuzzy moments..  Too many women I see have based their entire existance on their "mother" status.. What I am saying is that if you (general you) do that, you (general) are going to be sorely disappointed.  These grown people are not going to return the same intensity.. and neither are their spouses.   Many women are left with nothing after giving everything to their kids.. and the rewards of that can be more heartbreak and disappointment.  Smart ladies say... OK.. that was nice.. I've experienced motherhood and now my role has changed... and work on their own happiness.


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## Debby (Oct 7, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Oh sure.... that's true..  BUT.. face it..  the heartache and worry moments far far outnumber the warm fuzzy moments..  Too many women I see have based their entire existance on their "mother" status.. What I am saying is that if you (general you) do that, you (general) are going to be sorely disappointed.  These grown people are not going to return the same intensity.. and neither are their spouses.   Many women are left with nothing after giving everything to their kids.. and the rewards of that can be more heartbreak and disappointment.  Smart ladies say... OK.. that was nice.. I've experienced motherhood and now my role has changed... and work on their own happiness.




Good points all QuickSilver, but if it's any consolation, you know that the same thing will happen to them.  My grandkids are lovable, cuddly, affectionate, etc., but you and I both know (and I refrain from popping my daughters bubble with this info when she's going on and on about them), that as they grow up, it will change and become something different.  Good case scenario, they will still love their mom, but they're unlikely to give their lives for her.  Bad case scenario, they will simply become distant and unreachable.

While I went through that process of trying to redefine myself once they moved out and I was no longer 'mommy' as I'd been for 20 years, I don't think I've ever felt disappointed as a result of the kinds of changes you mention because I had zero expectations on how it would turn out.  If you don't 'expect' you can't be disappointed right?  Then all the good things (if any) that come along in any relationship (children, friends, spouses, etc) are a blessing and a bonus.  It's when we live with expectations of certain outcomes that we set ourselves up for disappointment. In my opinion anyway.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 7, 2014)

Debby said:


> Good points all QuickSilver, but if it's any consolation, you know that the same thing will happen to them. My grandkids are lovable, cuddly, affectionate, etc., but you and I both know (and I refrain from popping my daughters bubble with this info when she's going on and on about them), that as they grow up, it will change and become something different. Good case scenario, they will still love their mom, but they're unlikely to give their lives for her. Bad case scenario, they will simply become distant and unreachable.
> 
> While I went through that process of trying to redefine myself once they moved out and I was no longer 'mommy' as I'd been for 20 years, I don't think I've ever felt disappointed as a result of the kinds of changes you mention because I had zero expectations on how it would turn out. If you don't 'expect' you can't be disappointed right? Then all the good things (if any) that come along in any relationship (children, friends, spouses, etc) are a blessing and a bonus. It's when we live with expectations of certain outcomes that we set ourselves up for disappointment. In my opinion anyway.




No truer words Debby..   It's all a result of our personal expectations.. We have to accept the fact that those are OUR expectations and our children are in no way obligated to meet them.  That is where a lot of women get tied in knots.. I have been in several forums where the pain is horrendous regarding adult children.  I thankfully have let go and make no demands and I have no expectations.  I am fortunate in that I have always had a rewarding career and interests.  Many women don't and are eaten alive with sadness at the indifference of their adult children.... pining away for the days of holding that precious little bundle in their arms..  

I look back fondly at happy memories, but I'm in no way living in the past.. or even reminising..  Looking back with a clear eye.. the past is never really as wonderful as we have blown it up to be..  Same with motherhood..  It's a great experience but in no way self defining as Ralphy seems to think.


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## Justme (Oct 7, 2014)

My husband was at the birth of our three daughters, born in the 70s, and thought he had done his bit until they got interesting!

If men gave birth they would demand 18 years maternity leave, and have only one child as the whole process would be too much for them!


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## Davey Jones (Oct 7, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Ralphy, your habit of calling women sluts and tramps is not an endearing trait. :what:



He seems to haver a lot of mood swings.


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## Kitties (Oct 7, 2014)

I'm a woman and I never gave birth. However I can adopt kittens so who cares!


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 8, 2014)

My moods definitely swing but listening to the King stabilizes them...


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## Debby (Oct 8, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> No truer words Debby..   It's all a result of our personal expectations.. We have to accept the fact that those are OUR expectations and our children are in no way obligated to meet them.  That is where a lot of women get tied in knots.. I have been in several forums where the pain is horrendous regarding adult children.  I thankfully have let go and make no demands and I have no expectations.  I am fortunate in that I have always had a rewarding career and interests.  Many women don't and are eaten alive with sadness at the indifference of their adult children.... pining away for the days of holding that precious little bundle in their arms..
> 
> I look back fondly at happy memories, but I'm in no way living in the past.. or even reminising..  Looking back with a clear eye.. the past is never really as wonderful as we have blown it up to be..  Same with motherhood..  It's a great experience but in no way self defining as Ralphy seems to think.




Excellent post!  My mother is one of those who would have fit in on the forum you mentioned.  Not that I am indifferent to her (we talk at least every four days), but I didn't raise my kids like she wanted, my kids weren't 'granny lovers' when they were young (and yes, it's all on her in this instance - if you knew my mom you'd understand), I didn't see her to the door the way she thought was proper, etc., and she lived with angst as a result, all her life.

Yep, the moral of the life story is, if you want to be happy, DON'T harbour expectations of anybody...just take it as it comes and if it isn't comfortable adopt the 'water off a duck's back' rule.


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## rt3 (Oct 12, 2014)

Jeeeez--  Now I know why some mothers kill their young.   To heck with the birth stuff, I want to know why women get so many shoe styles. 

Kidding aside  Quick Ralphy go to the MD and get OXYTOCIN --- take 1 400 unit trouche every 4 hours until you have bonded with everybody in your immediate vicinity.

Yes is Biology.


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 13, 2014)

Don't need oxy, just a good martini will do...


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## Underock1 (Aug 3, 2015)

Well I think poor Ralphy is kind of getting beat up for simply trying to acknowledge that women are more important than men, and can do something very special in this world. He obviously went wrong by saying "Hey. We men got cheated." 
Everyone is different, and that goes for women too. Observation tells me that not all are over joyed by motherhood. Still; I think for most, there is a bond with their children beyond any other. After all, that child was at one time, and in some ways still is, a part of her very own body. I lost my place of importance as number one, as soon as our first child was born, soon to move further down the line, until our kids were grown. I think that's natural. I was very happy to step back and watch my wife do her thing. 
 As to giving birth; Plant a tiny seed inside me, watch it grow to hopelessly impossible proportions through nine months of discomfort and nausea, and then try to squeeze it through a soda straw? No.Thank you very much.
 I have unstinting admiration for the courage of any woman who voluntarily decides to do that. I am ever in my wife's debt for having done it twice, despite doctors warnings about risks to her health.
Just a few thoughts from another old guy who hasn't a clue.


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## Underock1 (Aug 3, 2015)

Debby said:


> Good points all QuickSilver, but if it's any consolation, you know that the same thing will happen to them.  My grandkids are lovable, cuddly, affectionate, etc., but you and I both know (and I refrain from popping my daughters bubble with this info when she's going on and on about them), that as they grow up, it will change and become something different.  Good case scenario, they will still love their mom, but they're unlikely to give their lives for her.  Bad case scenario, they will simply become distant and unreachable.
> 
> While I went through that process of trying to redefine myself once they moved out and I was no longer 'mommy' as I'd been for 20 years, I don't think I've ever felt disappointed as a result of the kinds of changes you mention because I had zero expectations on how it would turn out.  If you don't 'expect' you can't be disappointed right?  Then all the good things (if any) that come along in any relationship (children, friends, spouses, etc) are a blessing and a bonus.  It's when we live with expectations of certain outcomes that we set ourselves up for disappointment. In my opinion anyway.



Excekkent post! Very well put. I agree 100%. I think in the natural order of things, parents are always more concerned about their offspring than vise versa. How often do we think of our children? How often do we think of our parents?


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## ndynt (Aug 3, 2015)

Ralphie, the initial bonding between a mother and a newborn is amazing. Still frequently the bond that develops between a father and baby is sometimes even stronger and more remarkable.  
 I am sorry birth was such a horrible experience for others.   I had 7 births, all natural....and worked in high risk Labor and Delivery for 6 years.  And no matter how many deliveries there were I always found it a very emotional, spiritual and beautiful experience.... Though, admittedly there were some sad outcomes...the actual birth, getting baby to breath and placing the baby on mom's chest and watching them bond....even now I tear up...


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## Elsie (Jul 7, 2017)

How is the blessing of birthing a baby achieved if there had not been a man's sperm involved in bringing about the baby's conception?  So I'd say that a man knowing he gave his most important contribution to the conception of the baby being birthed by the woman is quite something for him to have great satisfaction over.......


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## IKE (Jul 7, 2017)

QuickSilver said:


> When it was happening.... I wished I wasn't there either... but I didn't have a choice.
> Now men say they are jealous of the birth process?   I say... anytime they want to take over that.... go for it.



I've been shot, stabbed and had three kidney stones and I know that the pain I felt was not even close to the excruciating pain that a woman must feel during childbirth.....I'm not the least bit jealous nor do I have any desire to ever take over the birthing process.


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## Butterfly (Jul 7, 2017)

You're a wise man, Ike!  At the time, I would have quite happily traded place with any man who wanted to take over.  In my case, there was nothing glorious about it -- it just hurt like hell.


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## Camper6 (Jul 8, 2017)

You wonder if humans are supposed to be the top rung of the food chain and prey on everything else why we haven't evolved into a simpler birth method.

For instance.  Why can't we just lay an egg like a chicken?


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## Knight (Jul 8, 2017)

I think if fatherhood is looked at as more than being a sperm donor but as a partner in raising the children they  wanted, the idea that birth is only a great experience for a woman IMO is a little unrealistic. I'm not excluding the fact that a woman carries a life or the pain of delivery. My point is about the joy both parents share as that life or lives developes over the years. Holding your child at birth and realizing that life depends on you to keeping it alive can be very sobering. Really satisfying is once your children leave home to make their own way in the world, and they do, and you become "friends" life takes on a whole new meaning.


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## Elsie (Jul 8, 2017)

Cluck, cluck, I just birthed my baby.  Girl or boy in its shell, doc?


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## Falcon (Jul 8, 2017)

Elsie,  Keep us posted when it hatches...........Hen  or Rooster?


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 12, 2017)

If men had to go through those labor pains, the population would experience a significant decline. LOL


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## Falcon (Jul 12, 2017)

Adam  was lying back contemplating his navel............................*WAIT !*

Adam didn't HAVE a navel,  if you stop and think about it.


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## Camper6 (Jul 12, 2017)

Falcon said:


> Adam  was lying back contemplating his navel............................*WAIT !*
> 
> Adam didn't HAVE a navel,  if you stop and think about it.



I have thought about it. If you believe in the theory of evolution the first human came from someone who was not quite a human yet. When I start thinking of this stuff I get a headache.


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## Camper6 (Jul 12, 2017)

OneEyedDiva said:


> If men had to go through those labor pains, the population would experience a significant decline. LOL



When I was a young man in my prime we used to talk about it.

And one quote I can remember.

"can you imagine passing a watermelon "


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## Elsie (Jul 13, 2017)

Falcon, that post came from an internet savvy hen.  She hatched a rooster...poor thing, he'll miss out on ever having labor pains.


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## JaniceM (Jul 13, 2017)

Falcon said:


> Adam  was lying back contemplating his navel............................*WAIT !*
> 
> Adam didn't HAVE a navel,  if you stop and think about it.



Are you certain about that?  After all, people have an appendix, and there's allegedly no purpose to those, either.  nthego:


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## Sassycakes (Jul 13, 2017)

Reading this brings back memories of when I gave birth. I have 2 children and when the first one was born husbands were not allowed in Delivery. After the baby arrived and my husband came in he looked worse than I did. He said he was worried sick thinking what I was going through while he was just sitting in the waiting room just worrying. I felt soo bad for him and actually thought he had a harder time then I did. When my second child was born men were allowed in the delivery room. While I was going through all the pain they decided to give me an epidural. After the injection there was a problem. I couldn't see good and had bad pain. They said the epidural hadn't gone in right and they rushed me into delivery. They told my Husband he couldn't come in. Again I felt more sorry for him then I felt for myself. After all that went on I do believe giving birth is the most wonderful thing and I am happy I am a woman and not a man. At least during delivery I am busy giving birth while Husbands are worrying about their wives and the new baby coming to them.


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## Warrigal (Jul 13, 2017)

My daughter gave birth to her 3rd and 4th babies at home and I was present as the chief cook and bottlewasher as well as wrangling the first two. I saw the moment of birth for each and I was terrified. That was my daughter, my firstborn baby labouring there and my grand child suspended between life and death.

I think I understand how a father feels when his babies are born.


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## Wren (Jul 14, 2017)

'Bringing new life on the earth' ...ok I agree with that but I'm sure if men gave birth  we wouldn't have a population problem !


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 18, 2017)

Having been around women from the time they start "showing" till they pass on, women are uniquely suited to be mothers. I would not change roles.


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