# What's your solution good people???



## Lon (Aug 14, 2016)

OK so I am a racist, bigoted guy with a itchy trigger finger, but seriously, do tell me how you would curb the violent rioting, burning, destruction of property and threats to police? Just arresting them presents a danger since many are armed. Don't give me LONG TERM SOLUTIONS for what is a immediate problem.


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## tnthomas (Aug 14, 2016)

Here is a list of non-lethal weapons currently available for riot control:

     Current Counter-Personnel Non-Lethal Weapons   


                      12-Gauge Munitions                  
                      40mm Munitions                  
                      66mm Light Vehicle Obscurant Smoke System and Vehicle-Launched Non-Lethal Grenades                  
                      Acoustic Hailing Devices                  
                      Enhanced Underwater Loudhailer                  
                      FN-303 Less Lethal Launching System                  
                      Green Laser Interdiction System                  
                      M-84 Flash Bang Grenade                  
                      Modular Crowd Control Munition                  
                      NICO BTV-1 Flash Bang Grenade                  
                      Non-Lethal Capability Sets / Escalation-of-Force Mission Modules                  
                      Oleoresin Capsicum Dispensers                  
                      Stingball Grenade                  
                      Taser[SUP]®[/SUP] X26™                  
 




         Current Counter-Materiel Non-Lethal Weapons   


                      Caltrops                  
                      M2 Vehicle Lightweight Arresting Device Net                  
                      Portable Vehicle Arresting Barrier                  
                      Running Gear Entanglement System                  
                      Spike Strip                  

Source: http://jnlwp.defense.gov/Current-Non-Lethal-Weapons/ .


At the prison where I work , the only weapon the correctional officers carry is OC spray, in the large _family_ size:




Of course if things get ugly, they do have additional equipment and weapons in the armory.


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## Warrigal (Aug 14, 2016)

> Just arresting them presents a danger since many are armed



This is one impediment to good order that needs to be addressed. Then try to understand why people are so ready to riot. 
There is no immediate solution to deep seated social problems. Long terms solutions are essential because anything else is just a bandaid until the next event.


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## Falcon (Aug 14, 2016)

Here's the thing. (Apropos; "Don't judge a person until you have walked a mile in his shoes." )

One never knows WHY a robber, thief, carjacker etc. is breaking the law.

He (she) may need money to pay for medical care for a sick child, spouse, sibling, parent or other loved one
which he (she) cannot afford. Or losing the house because he can't afford the house payment.
OR he's starving.   You get the picture.

If it's for buying dope or booze....that's a different story.  THEN  shoot the SOB !


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## fureverywhere (Aug 14, 2016)

Basically that a far larger problem needs to be addressed than containing riots. It's breaking down the conditions that create riots. Making both police and offenders accountable for their actions. If I knew the answer I'd be on my way to the Gaza Strip to help them sort it out too.


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## Don M. (Aug 14, 2016)

I fully support the right of people to peacefully protest, but when the rioting, looting and burning starts, I quickly lose sympathy for those involved.  I cannot understand this Black Lives Matter thing...when the vast majority of Black shooting victims are shot my members of their own race.  It seems to me that when the police shoot one of these people, quite often the victim has a history of criminal offenses, or is confrontational with the police.  Perhaps if these victims obeyed the law, and didn't start sassing the cop, they might still be alive.  

I think racial relations have taken a turn for the worse in recent years, and I lay a good part of the blame at the Obama doorstep.  He identifies as being Black, when in reality he is only half black.  He seems to sympathize with only the Blacks...going back as far as his "beer summit" some years back.  He seems to idolized his Black father...who abandoned him as a young child, yet I can't recall him ever saying anything positive about his White mother, or the White grandparents who raised him.  By his words and actions, he seems to set the tone that is leading to many of these current issues.


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## fureverywhere (Aug 14, 2016)

One more perspective...I've had maybe two kids that have seen the other side of the law. I was and am a Caucasian senior female from Northern New Jersey. My spouse might or might not have connections to local law enforcement officials. If one of my children died in police custody? Oh fuggedaboutit...Christie would be on the phone the same morning. There is no possible way they would let that slide. But Freddie Gray and they let them all walk.


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## Manatee (Aug 14, 2016)

Some of those cops in the Freddy Gray case were also black.  Gray was a well known to the police as a thug.


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## Laurie (Aug 15, 2016)

"This is one impediment to good order that needs to be addressed. "

Th one impediment which needs to be addressed above all others is the lack of political will to address the problem.

No political party, in any country  outside the Muslim world, has it, and that's why they will win.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 15, 2016)

Laurie said:


> "This is one impediment to good order that needs to be addressed. "
> 
> Th one impediment which needs to be addressed above all others is the lack of political will to address the problem.
> 
> No political party, in any country  outside the Muslim world, has it, and that's why they will win.



There won't be a short term solution and no long term one either until politicians and whites admit to the fact that our current law enforcement system and society in general is rife with inherent  racism.   People need to be treated equally and there needs to be equal opportunity as well as good paying jobs and education.  I'm not sure this can be accomplished in one generation.  This has been going on for many generations.


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## Sunny (Aug 15, 2016)

> Gray was a well known to the police as a thug.





> Just arresting them presents a danger since many are armed. Don't give me LONG TERM SOLUTIONS for what is a immediate problem.



"I fully support the right of people to peacefully protest, but when the  rioting, looting and burning starts, I quickly lose sympathy for those  involved.  I cannot understand this Black Lives Matter thing...when the  vast majority of Black shooting victims are shot my members of their own  race.  It seems to me that when the police shoot one of these people,  quite often the victim has a history of criminal offenses, or is  confrontational with the police.  Perhaps if these victims obeyed the  law, and didn't start sassing the cop, they might still be alive.  "



> If it's for buying dope or booze....that's a different story.  THEN  shoot the SOB !




The above quotes in this thread make my blood run cold. 

The fact that someone may be a thug, a drug addict, an alcoholic, or an all-around bad guy does not give the police license to kill him. The last I heard, we still had rule of law in this country, not police assassination squads. Unfortunately, some of the police don't seem to be acquainted with that concept.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 15, 2016)

> The fact that someone may be a thug, a drug addict, an alcoholic, or an all-around bad guy does not give the police license to kill him. The last I heard, we still had rule of law in this country, not police assassination squads. Unfortunately, some of the police don't seem to be acquainted with that concept.



Yet those who seem so eager for killing people without due process.. always seem to be the ones running around spouting off about upholding the Constitution.


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## AprilT (Aug 15, 2016)

Don M. said:


> I fully support the right of people to peacefully protest, but when the rioting, looting and burning starts, I quickly lose sympathy for those involved.  I cannot understand this Black Lives Matter thing...when the vast majority of Black shooting victims are shot my members of their own race.  It seems to me that when the police shoot one of these people, *quite often the victim has a history of criminal offenses, or is confrontational with the police. * Perhaps if these victims obeyed the law, and didn't start sassing the cop, they might still be alive.
> 
> Nonsense, only the ones, people who make up their minds to believe this is this true, we've several instances posted with video where the opposite where victims of shootings have been law abiding citizens and even if they were a little boisterous, not a reason to be shot and or killed, seems these postings always come up for black people, but rarely when whites are involved, which does happen and it is always the same people who like to paint a target on minorities and then wonder why crying foul what happens.
> 
> ...



I've said it before, race relations are no worse than they were before, especially not before Obama came to office, maybe for those who had issues to begin with, but, I see the younger generations making more strides toward the positive, many older folks are from another time and enjoyed it as it was with special privileges.

As far as his mother, he loved her, but, they had a complicated relationship, it was his maternal grandparents who mainly raised him and he adored them






I would say the people who talk the most race nonsense about black are of this error and of this thinking often enough probably bothersome to be compared, but, oh well.

This was a movie based on real events of the author's life, back then, what the actor looked like didn't much matter, so you'll have to overlook that, but there's this one scene, I'll never forget this is the mindset of some people I detect are still around these parts.  This movie was written and lived by a white man living for a short time as a black man.

Clip I'm referring starts at around 44:00


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## Carla (Aug 15, 2016)

Falcon said:


> Here's the thing. (Apropos; "Don't judge a person until you have walked a mile in his shoes." )
> 
> One never knows WHY a robber, thief, carjacker etc. is breaking the law.
> 
> ...



Falcon, I agree with what you say except for that last sentence. We have a big drug problem in this country that just keeps getting worse. It affects all social classes, ages, races and gender. Heroin seems to be the drug of choice but pills are too and very expensive on the street as I understand. These drugs can change the nicest person into a crook as they become desperate for their next high. The sad thing is that some may have been prescribed a drug like Oxy, Fetanyl or even Percocet and become hooked. This happened to my son's best friend who had a serious back problem (inherited). He was a good kid but got hooked. He became dishonest and stole from his parents and who knows who or what else. He died at 32, OD. Everyone has a story, we're human beings. I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished, they need to be. As long as they aren't armed or violent or threatening someone's life, I think shooting them is a little extreme.


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## Butterfly (Aug 15, 2016)

One thing I think we need to remember in all the hype, is that IF you threaten a police officer with a gun (or even a very realistic fake firearm) you can EXPECT the officer to shoot you.  In the case in Milwaukee, at least in all the reports I have heard, and they say it is substantiated by a body camera, the suspect was confronting the officer with a firearm.  Of course the officer is going to shoot -- he is protecting his own life, and he doesn't have time to stand there and analyze the gunman's motives or backstory.  These are split-second decisions and the officer will protect his own life.

If I, a little old white lady with grey/white hair, went out tonight and challenged a police officer with a firearm, they'd shoot me, too, without regard to my gender, race, religion, or general state of decrepitude.  What do you expect when you put a gun in an officer's face?


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## AprilT (Aug 16, 2016)

Butterfly said:


> One thing I think we need to remember in all the hype, is that IF you threaten a police officer with a gun (or even a very realistic fake firearm) you can EXPECT the officer to shoot you.  In the case in Milwaukee, at least in all the reports I have heard, and they say it is substantiated by a body camera, the suspect was confronting the officer with a firearm.  Of course the officer is going to shoot -- he is protecting his own life, and he doesn't have time to stand there and analyze the gunman's motives or backstory.  These are split-second decisions and the officer will protect his own life.
> 
> If I, a little old white lady with grey/white hair, went out tonight and challenged a police officer with a firearm, they'd shoot me, too, without regard to my gender, race, religion, or general state of decrepitude.  What do you expect when you put a gun in an officer's face?



I agree with you, the culprit in this case, got what he went looking for and the hooligans causing damage creating mayhem in this case haven't a leg to stand on and many are a bunch of opportunist, but like you, I wish people wouldn't lump all into the same pot.  These people looting and burning are disgusting to say the least.


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## Ray (Aug 16, 2016)

Step one - every element and every level of authority and opinion making from the White House down must make it clear that rioting, lootin, rock throwing, attacking people, etc. will not be tolerated - period.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 16, 2016)

Ray said:


> Step one - every element and every level of authority and opinion making from the White House down must make it clear that rioting, lootin, rock throwing, attacking people, etc. will not be tolerated - period.



Haven't they done that?   I don't recall anyone saying it WILL be tolerated


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Aug 16, 2016)

There are, of course, some bad cops mixed in with the good.  Ferreting them out is one problem.  The police involved shootings are not all bad cop scenarios.  In today's world, it can be doubtful if a taser or non-lethal means will stop a drug-hyped criminal bent on killing someone.  
I have been through 'shoot, don't shoot' courses some years back.  In today's world... I would have a difficult time passing such a course simply due to the drug induced state-of-mind so many can exhibit.  With those thoughts in mind, a police officer's choice to disable may well mean his own death.
We have two different scenarios here.  First, we have the police involved shootings that seem to rile the BLM masses.  Peaceful demonstrations are unwarranted, but are still a right of the citizenry.  Let them demonstrate as long as they respect the rights of others.
The real issue is the looting and burning done under the guise of "peaceful" demonstrations.  I still believe those need shut down with fire hoses, tear gas, and any other non-lethal means.  The very first sign of a gunshot, store window broken, police car vandalized... it is no longer a peaceful demonstration.  Until it is learned that criminal activity will not be tolerated, have National Guard units on site at each and every demonstration.  If some go home bruised and battered because a few took this as an excuse to loot and burn... pretty soon the "real" participants will assist in policing the criminal element.  It would be great to see demonstration after demonstration marching peacefully.  What a statement to the rest of the world that this could happen in America and the government not shut them down.  Until EVERYONE is ready to keep these activities peaceful... the events need handled with non-lethal means of bringing them to an abrupt halt.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 16, 2016)

Unfortunately, there is enormous distrust between the community and the police.   The videos on bad cops and senseless shootings and police violence have not helped.  EVERYONE has a cellphone now and can record what is going on.


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## Lon (Aug 16, 2016)

We all know what the real problem with these young male perps . Born and raised in a basically FATHERLESS enviorment they have had no structure and it's too late to start, so the present crop of young men are doomed to death or prison. Until some family structure is incorporated in black families things will not change.


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## Carla (Aug 16, 2016)

Butterfly said:


> One thing I think we need to remember in all the hype, is that IF you threaten a police officer with a gun (or even a very realistic fake firearm) you can EXPECT the officer to shoot you.  In the case in Milwaukee, at least in all the reports I have heard, and they say it is substantiated by a body camera, the suspect was confronting the officer with a firearm.  Of course the officer is going to shoot -- he is protecting his own life, and he doesn't have time to stand there and analyze the gunman's motives or backstory.  These are split-second decisions and the officer will protect his own life.
> 
> If I, a little old white lady with grey/white hair, went out tonight and challenged a police officer with a firearm, they'd shoot me, too, without regard to my gender, race, religion, or general state of decrepitude.  What do you expect when you put a gun in an officer's face?



Of course you are right. However, if you have noticed, lately that doesn't seem to be the case.  There are usually two sides to every story, so as you watch a video clip, it may exclude some key parts. It does seem as though there have been an awful amount of interracial incidents and that seems to be the spark igniting at least some of this. The police have a tough job, there is no doubt about it. We probably expect too much from them at times--how to know when a suspect is holding a phone or a firearm in the dark. Yes they do have to make split second decisions, that comes with the job. My trail of thought about Falcon's comment is that there are a lot of druggies out there and they don't deserve to be shot because of that--I think my last sentence clarifies that.
O


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## AprilT (Aug 16, 2016)

Lon said:


> We all know what the real problem with these young male perps . Born and raised in a basically FATHERLESS enviorment they have had no structure and it's too late to start, so the present crop of young men are doomed to death or prison. Until some family structure is incorporated in black families things will not change.



So now it's black families who don't have structure, I'll let all the black people I know living and thriving, who grew up in two parent or even single parent homes how failed they are and soon to be in prison.  Now if one means many people who don't have structure, proper upbringing, black, white or other, tend to end up on the lower echelons of society, I can see where someone saying so may be coming from, but, we both know that's not how some think as demonstrated repeatedly from various postings in many threads.  Evidently some have missed a whole section of society with their own rules, bodies vanish, where even the police don't venture if they can avoid it and I'm not talking what would be termed ghettos where mostly minorities live.  For some everything is black and white.  I understand the environment some people ventured from and all they witnessed in their enclaves were a certain fringe collection of societies worst of any given group.  Though I've lived in mixed and predominantly white areas, I am also privileged to have lived in predominantly black middle class neighborhoods as well and the people were nothing like what you think most blacks are like, there's a whole big world out there other than what is pictured in the news.

There are very successful family neighborhoods made of middle class and poor black people as well.  Stop perpetuating the bull about "black families".  Some are as bad as they seem, most are not.  Poor ghettoized mentality people are going to often act like fools.  I haven't any tolerance for the type of people you see looting, committing crimes and the like, the people you see in some of those news clips turn my stomach, but, the people who like to use those types of individuals as examples for describing what's wrong with black families are as much opportunist as they are.  Just one more chance to say look as those igers.


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## Lon (Aug 16, 2016)

AprilT said:


> So now it's black families who don't have structure, I'll let all the black people I know living and thriving, who grew up in two parent or even single parent homes how failed they are and soon to be in prison.  Now if one means many people who don't have structure, proper upbringing, black, white or other, tend to end up on the lower echelons of society, I can see where someone saying so may be coming from, but, we both know that's not how some think as demonstrated repeatedly from various postings in many threads.  Evidently some have missed a whole section of society with their own rules, bodies vanish, where even the police don't venture if they can avoid it and I'm not talking what would be termed ghettos where mostly minorities live.  For some everything is black and white.  I understand the environment some people ventured from and all they witnessed in their enclaves were a certain fringe collection of societies worst of any given group.  Though I've lived in mixed and predominantly white areas, I am also privileged to have lived in predominantly black middle class neighborhoods as well and the people were nothing like what you think most blacks are like, there's a whole big world out there other than what is pictured in the news.
> 
> There are very successful family neighborhoods made of middle class and poor black people as well.  Stop perpetuating the bull about "black families".  Some are as bad as they seem, most are not.  Poor ghettoized mentality people are going to often act like fools.  I haven't any tolerance for the type of people you see looting, committing crimes and the like, the people you see in some of those news clips turn my stomach, but, the people who like to use those types of individuals as examples for describing what's wrong with black families are as much opportunist as they are.  Just one more chance to say look as those igers.



I suggest that you read Daniel Patrick Moynihan's The ***** Family: The Case For National Action Moynihan was a Democrat & Sociologist


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## Jackie22 (Aug 16, 2016)

Don M. said:


> I fully support the right of people to peacefully protest, but when the rioting, looting and burning starts, I quickly lose sympathy for those involved.  I cannot understand this Black Lives Matter thing...when the vast majority of Black shooting victims are shot my members of their own race.  It seems to me that when the police shoot one of these people, quite often the victim has a history of criminal offenses, or is confrontational with the police.  Perhaps if these victims obeyed the law, and didn't start sassing the cop, they might still be alive.
> 
> I think racial relations have taken a turn for the worse in recent years, and I lay a good part of the blame at the Obama doorstep.  He identifies as being Black, when in reality he is only half black.  He seems to sympathize with only the Blacks...going back as far as his "beer summit" some years back.  He seems to idolized his Black father...who abandoned him as a young child, yet I can't recall him ever saying anything positive about his White mother, or the White grandparents who raised him.  By his words and actions, he seems to set the tone that is leading to many of these current issues.



I strongly disagree with nearly everything in this post.

I think President Obama has leaned over backwards not to be racial bias because he IS black, and because he understands the racism in this country.  As for how he feels about his family members, you are completely wrong on that also.......read up!


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## AprilT (Aug 16, 2016)

Lon said:


> I suggest that you read Daniel Patrick Moynihan's The ***** Family: The Case For National Action Moynihan was a Democrat & Sociologist



There's a lot more reading I could suggest for you, but, I realize how mute that would be.


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## Carla (Aug 16, 2016)

Don M. said:


> I fully support the right of people to peacefully protest, but when the rioting, looting and burning starts, I quickly lose sympathy for those involved.  I cannot understand this Black Lives Matter thing...when the vast majority of Black shooting victims are shot my members of their own race.  It seems to me that when the police shoot one of these people, quite often the victim has a history of criminal offenses, or is confrontational with the police.  Perhaps if these victims obeyed the law, and didn't start sassing the cop, they might still be alive.
> 
> I think racial relations have taken a turn for the worse in recent years, and I lay a good part of the blame at the Obama doorstep.  He identifies as being Black, when in reality he is only half black.  He seems to sympathize with only the Blacks...going back as far as his "beer summit" some years back.  He seems to idolized his Black father...who abandoned him as a young child, yet I can't recall him ever saying anything positive about his White mother, or the White grandparents who raised him.  By his words and actions, he seems to set the tone that is leading to many of these current issues.



Don, I have heard on many occasion, President Obama speak very affectionately of his single white mother and the grandparents who raised him. He has never condoned actions of violence, either by the thugs or by the police. He is against racial profiling and prejudice as we all should be and yes, often times blacks are treated differently. If we don't acknowledge this, it can't get fixed and things can get even worse. We need to stop with the generalities and recognize there are many more good, hardworking, tax paying blacks in our society that should be treated with respect and in the same way any of us would be treated in a traffic stop. They should not have to fear the police or teach their children they will be treated differently because of their skin color. I somehow find that very sad. How can they teach their children to do the right thing and be respectful when it won't be extended to them?


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## Lon (Aug 16, 2016)

HEY Let's be honest and look at the facts. Blacks commit murder & crimes disproportionate to their percentage of the population.
Of course there are good Black Families & good black neighborhoods, but prisons still contain a higher percentage of black men than other minorities. Black men commit more than half the murders in this country & unfortunately it is generally black on black.


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## AprilT (Aug 16, 2016)

Lon said:


> HEY Let's be honest and look at the facts. Blacks commit murder & crimes disproportionate to their percentage of the population.
> Of course there are good Black Families & good black neighborhoods, but prisons still contain a higher percentage of black men than other minorities. Black men commit more than half the murders in this country & unfortunately it is generally black on black.



I could talk about all the old drunks, non-blacks, who beat their wives till their faces were unrecognizable, abandoned their kids and families going back ages where there weren't any stats to report.  Priest and others forced some of those families then and now to stay together.  Many many black and other minority, white women included raped by non-black men, these men sired children who were abandon by, so called upstanding white males who have morals and codes of ethics only when it's convenient.   The many Catholic charities were born out of necessity to care for a whole lot of abandoned white children.

Black on black crime, yes it exist disproportionately in poor communities, there are reasons beyond the surface rhetoric that accounts for much of it.  I could pull up all kinds of information, to pick people of any ethnicity apart if I wanted to, but, it doesn't bring me the joy it brings some of you folks, so, I rather look for the real truth, not the ones that support only my closed minded views to keep me pointing a finger at others all the time.  I could say generally where white people go, war and mayhem is sure to follow and the raping of the earth, stealing the land wiping out the natives, as well, but, I don't say things like that because I don't go around having thoughts like that.


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