# WHO now says Coronavirus did not come from China



## win231 (Feb 9, 2021)

Now it's "Bats & Rats."
https://apnews.com/article/world-ne...ited-nations-7a739e01f0713ebcc031d7ca81c51345


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## Judycat (Feb 9, 2021)

Originally it was thought to come from a wet market in Wuhan called the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market where bats were being sold.  The virus was studied back then and didn't appear to have been cobbled together in a laboratory. The pandemic's predicted path was accurate as was it's rate and mode of infection. In other words, who cares.


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## Aunt Marg (Feb 9, 2021)

I can't help but think of the lyrics to the Irish Rovers classic, Unicorn.

There were green alligators and long necked geese
Some humpty-back camels and some chimpanzees
Some cats and rats and Covid bats, but sure as you're born
The loveliest of all was the Unicorn


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## Judycat (Feb 9, 2021)

Poor bats always getting a bad rap.


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## debodun (Feb 9, 2021)

And lions and tigers and bears, oh my!


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## Murrmurr (Feb 9, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I can't help but think of the lyrics to the Irish Rovers classic, Unicorn.
> 
> There were green alligators and long necked geese
> Some humpty-back camels and some chimpanzees
> ...


Maybe the cure was in that unicorn's horn!
And now we'll never know.


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## asp3 (Feb 9, 2021)

win231 said:


> Now it's "Bats & Rats."
> https://apnews.com/article/world-ne...ited-nations-7a739e01f0713ebcc031d7ca81c51345



That was the original prediction and most science studies I've seen have said it's unlikely that it came from a lab just like the WHO.  This isn't new news it's just another study agreeing with other studies that have been done.


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## Aunt Marg (Feb 9, 2021)

I'm at a point where I don't believe any of it, not where Covid originated from or how it originated, and I don't believe in the vaccines either.


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## StarSong (Feb 9, 2021)

The WHO has said all along that it likely started in bats but they were unsure which intermediary animal brought it to humans.


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## Pepper (Feb 9, 2021)

StarSong said:


> The WHO has said all along that it likely started in bats but they were unsure which intermediary animal brought it to humans.


Why did there have to be an intermediary animal?  Years ago, in NH, I knew a woman who fed bats, many times by hand.  She wanted bats around because they ate the bugs.


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## StarSong (Feb 9, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Why did there have to be an intermediary animal?  Years ago, in NH, I knew a woman who fed bats, many times by hand.  She wanted bats around because they ate the bugs.


From most of what I've read, the intermediary animals have closer contact with bats than humans do (including eating their guano, whether intentionally or while grazing adjacent vegetation).

Most people are skeeved out by bats and avoid touching them. Your friend was a rarity.


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## win231 (Feb 9, 2021)

Yeah....it's gotta be bats.  Aren't they all blood-sucking vampires anyway?


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## Pepper (Feb 9, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Most people are skeeved out by bats and avoid touching them. *Your friend was a rarity.*


She was also a nut.


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## chic (Feb 10, 2021)

I thought it was said to have started with contaminated minks in Denmark. The minks were all exterminated.


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## Oris Borloff (Feb 10, 2021)

At some point in the past ( 20+ years ago), I  read something about  what food is often on the menu in restaurants in China.  It might have been in National Geographic. The story was geared toward the environmental aspects of what animals were on the menu and the effect on the ecosystem. The Primary focus of the article was how bats get a bad rap and in fact,  are beneficial to humans and the environment as a whole. 

Would bats have been kept in the market for that purpose ? Could that be the common factor in transmission to another species? There are many animals that westerners don't eat, pangolins, snakes and bats included.    I don't recall if it was regional or even widespread practice.  I haven't been following the covid-19 origin story so this is just my personal musing.


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## Mike (Feb 10, 2021)

Has China made a donation to the WHO, I wonder?

Mike.


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## Rosemarie (Feb 10, 2021)

Oris Borloff said:


> At some point in the past ( 20+ years ago), I  read something about  what food is often on the menu in restaurants in China.  It might have been in National Geographic. The story was geared toward the environmental aspects of what animals were on the menu and the effect on the ecosystem. The Primary focus of the article was how bats get a bad rap and in fact,  are beneficial to humans and the environment as a whole.
> 
> Would bats have been kept in the market for that purpose ? Could that be the common factor in transmission to another species? There are many animals that westerners don't eat, pangolins, snakes and bats included.    I don't recall if it was regional or even widespread practice.  I haven't been following the covid-19 origin story so this is just my personal musing.


Yes, I think I saw the same documentary. It showed  how illness can be transferred from animals to humans by the consumption of sick animals. The Aids virus is said to have originated in chimps and been transferred to humans who ate chimp meat.


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## peramangkelder (Feb 10, 2021)

Saw this on the News in South Australia today -
"BEIJING (Reuters) - A new form of African swine fever identified in Chinese pig farms is most likely caused by illicit vaccines, industry insiders say, a fresh blow to the world’s largest pork producer, still recovering from a devastating epidemic of the virus."
China has a LOT to answer for


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## StarSong (Feb 10, 2021)

chic said:


> I thought it was said to have started with contaminated minks in Denmark. The minks were all exterminated.


The minks contracted COVID from humans.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/mink-coronavirus-mutation.html


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## Don M. (Feb 11, 2021)

Mike said:


> Has China made a donation to the WHO, I wonder?  Mike.



My thoughts also.  I wouldn't trust Anything coming from the Chinese government, and getting the WHO "on their side" is likely just one of many steps the Chinese are taking to deflect the blame for this pandemic.  I doubt we will ever know the truth.


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## Dudewho (Feb 11, 2021)

I don't know who to distrust more China or the WHO.
Kinda, one and the same.


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## 911 (Feb 11, 2021)

Without evidence, we can choose what suits.


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## OneEyedDiva (Feb 11, 2021)

Like I've been saying, there's too much that is not yet known. Every other day the story changes! So who's to say the information about the vaccine won't continue to change as well?


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## Mike (Feb 12, 2021)

Perhaps win231 you should have put a ???? at the
back of your headline!

Mike.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 12, 2021)

Mike said:


> Has China made a donation to the WHO, I wonder?
> 
> Mike.


The WHO is in China's pocket. No real faith in that organization.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 12, 2021)

"The visit by the WHO team took months to negotiate. China only agreed to it amid international pressure at the WHO’s World Health Assembly meeting last May, and Beijing has continued to resist calls for a strictly independent investigation."

I wonder why? Well actually I don't . The next time the truth comes out of China will be the first time.


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## Aneeda72 (Feb 12, 2021)

I could not care less about where the virus came from, the virus is here, people should deal with it.  Playing the “blame game” may make certain people feel better but it is a useless enterprise.  The virus got here from another country because our country FAILED to act in time to stop the spread.

The virus spread, rapidly, because the American people FAILED, to follow medical advice and still FAIL to follow sound medical advice and the science.  The virus continues here because Americans talk too much about the virus and do too little to control the spread.

*If you/we need someone to blame, blame yourself and your fellow Americans.  Stop blaming CHINA whose country and people have suffered as well, and whose government controlled the spread of the virus in their country much better than ours has.

I AM REALLY TIRED OF THE HATERS.  Just stop, God will judge you harshly, IMO.*


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## tbeltrans (Feb 12, 2021)

The subject line for this thread says:

WHO now says Coronavirus did not come from China​
However, that is not what the article that the OP linked says.  The article says that the virus was not leaked from a lab in China.  Big difference.  Also, early reports had said that the virus came from conditions in live animal markets in China.  I did not hear the "leaked from lab" theory until much later in the COVID news cycle, and even then it was not taken seriously the way it was reported merely in passing.

As is usual for me, I agree with 911: Without evidence, we can choose what suits.

Tony


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## Mike (Feb 12, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> The article says that the virus was not leaked from a lab in China.
> 
> Tony


I don't think that it was leaked from anywhere!

It just got out of control.

Mike.


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## tbeltrans (Feb 12, 2021)

Mike said:


> I don't think that it was leaked from anywhere!
> 
> It just got out of control.
> 
> Mike.


????  I never said it was leaked from anywhere.  All I said was that the article did not say the virus did not come from China, but instead that it wasn't leaked from a lab.  I also said that when I heard reference to it, it was not taken seriously.  I am not sure at all what you think you are replying to.

Tony


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## HoneyNut (Feb 12, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Most people are skeeved out by bats and avoid touching them. Your friend was a rarity.


Here's one of those batty type people on YouTube:


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## Mike (Feb 13, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> ????  I never said it was leaked from anywhere.  All I said was that the article did not say the virus did not come from China, but instead that it wasn't leaked from a lab.  I also said that when I heard reference to it, it was not taken seriously.  I am not sure at all what you think you are replying to.
> 
> Tony


I was suggesting that it was accidental, sorry to have upset you.

Mike.


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## tbeltrans (Feb 13, 2021)

Mike said:


> I was suggesting that it was accidental, sorry to have upset you.
> 
> Mike.


Since I am not a medical person, nor have I ever been to China, I can't speak from personal knowledge regarding much of anything about the virus.  All I can do is make comments based on what I read.  I never had the impression that anything I had read or heard took the rumor that the virus was leaked from some lab seriously.  I don't know who started that rumor, but I would think that person had a good laugh at how gullible some people are.

If anything, I am surprised that such a rumor got any traction here in the forum, or that any credible news outlet or magazine would bother with it either. 

Also, I found it odd that the subject title of this thread had nothing to do with what the article actually said.  So these are the things that I commented on.  Your response quoting my post surprised me because it was seemingly from out in left field somewhere, and certainly having little to do with what the post you quoted actually said.

Tony


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## garyt1957 (Feb 13, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> ????  I never said it was leaked from anywhere.  All I said was that the article did not say the virus did not come from China, but instead that it wasn't leaked from a lab.  I also said that when I heard reference to it, it was not taken seriously.  I am not sure at all what you think you are replying to.
> 
> Tony


Not sure what you're all hopped up about. He wasn't saying you said it leaked, he was just replying to what you quoted. I tend to agree with him. It has nothing to do with you.


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## tbeltrans (Feb 13, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> Not sure what you're all hopped up about. He wasn't saying you said it leaked, he was just replying to what you quoted. I tend to agree with him. It has nothing to do with you.


Where do you get "hopped up" from?  I spoke conversationally.  Forums can get weird sometimes because most of the clues we use for communication are missing - facial expression, tone of voice, and body language.  If we were speaking face to face, you would readily see there was nothing "hopped up" about it.

There are ways to communicate "hopped up", none of which I used.  Exclamation points and using al capital letters are the two primary ways of doing that.  He used an exclamation point, I didn't.  Neither of us used all capital letters, which has long been understood to indicate shouting.

Also, if it has nothing to do with me, then why quote my post?  Do you understand that if you quote somebody's post, you are replying to that person?  If you post without quoting anybody, then your post stands alone.  If he had done that, it would have made more sense to me and probably to others who understand how posting works.

When I have quoted a post, in my response, I will state specifically a part of my post that is not directed to the post I quoted to keep that separate from my response to the quoted post.

I agree with what he said, but disagree with it as a response to my post.

Tony


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## garyt1957 (Feb 13, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> Where do you get "hopped up" from?  I spoke conversationally.  Forums can get weird sometimes because most of the clues we use for communication are missing - facial expression, tone of voice, and body language.  If we were speaking face to face, you would readily see there was nothing "hopped up" about it.
> 
> There are ways to communicate "hopped up", none of which I used.  Exclamation points and using al capital letters are the two primary ways of doing that.  He used an exclamation point, I didn't.  Neither of us used all capital letters, which has long been understood to indicate shouting.
> 
> ...


You posted this:  The article says that the virus was not leaked from a lab in China.

He responded to that, which was about the article, not anything you said. It was pretty obvious to anybody with any reading comprehension that he wasn't saying you said it.  The ???? followed by your response gives the impression you were a bit miffed.  Go read it again, it sure looks that way to me.  But you're right, it's harder to understand someone's intent in writing.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 13, 2021)

I might add that Mike also apologized for upsetting you, so he obviously took your post to mean you were miffed. Because that's the way it read. You say otherwise and you know, so end of story.


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## tbeltrans (Feb 13, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> You posted this:  The article says that the virus was not leaked from a lab in China.
> 
> He responded to that, which was about the article, not anything you said. It was pretty obvious to anybody with any reading comprehension that he wasn't saying you said it.  The ???? followed by your response gives the impression you were a bit miffed.  Go read it again, it sure looks that way to me.  But you're right, it's harder to understand someone's intent in writing.


Question marks (to me) indicate baffled or questioning because I don't understand the context of what was said, not miffed.  We just view it differently.  Can we leave it at that?  I am not "miffed" at you or him, so let's just stop.  We won't agree on our respective interpretations, so there is no point in going around and around.  I appreciate you taking the time to explain your point of view, and hope you feel likewise toward me.

Thanks,

Tony


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## garyt1957 (Feb 13, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> Question marks (to me) indicate baffled or questioning because I don't understand the context of what was said, not miffed.  We just view it differently.  Can we leave it at that?  I am not "miffed" at you or him, so let's just stop.  We won't agree on our respective interpretations, so there is no point in going around and around.  I appreciate you taking the time to explain your point of view, and hope you feel likewise toward me.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tony


That's what I meant by "end of story"  You said you weren't miffed and you know so that ends it my view.


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## tbeltrans (Feb 13, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> That's what I meant by "end of story"  You said you weren't miffed and you know so that ends it my view.


Thank you.   

Tony


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## garyt1957 (Feb 13, 2021)

Hey! What does that smiley face mean? .....nah, just kidding


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## tbeltrans (Feb 13, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> Hey! What does that smiley face mean? .....nah, just kidding


It is always good to see an exchange like this end well and friendly.  I truly appreciate that.

Tony


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## ProTruckDriver (Feb 13, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I'm at a point where I don't believe any of it, not where Covid originated from or how it originated, and I don't believe in the vaccines either.


OMG! You are reading my mind.


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## Aunt Marg (Feb 13, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> OMG! You are reading my mind.


I'm glad to know there are a few of us, Pro, because from all that I see and hear, seems everyone has bought into Covid, hook, line, and sinker.

My main goal now is to avoid people and stay safe and healthy.


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## Yosh (Feb 13, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I'm at a point where I don't believe any of it, not where Covid originated from or how it originated, and I don't believe in the vaccines either.


Fortunately, the science doesn't care what you believe.


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## Aunt Marg (Feb 13, 2021)

Yosh said:


> Fortunately, the science doesn't care what you believe.


Is your reply supposed to wow me?


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## Becky1951 (Feb 13, 2021)

Yosh said:


> Fortunately, the science doesn't care what you believe.


Yes of course because we all know that science has never, ever, in history been wrong.


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## Aunt Marg (Feb 13, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Yes of course because we all know that science has never, ever, in history been wrong.


To a T! Refined to the max, Becky!


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## Aunt Marg (Feb 13, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Yes of course because we all know that science has never, ever, in history been wrong.


And of course science never, ever lies.


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## StarSong (Feb 13, 2021)

Credible scientists don't lie.  They respond and refine their positions as more data comes to light.


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## tbeltrans (Feb 13, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Credible scientists don't lie.  They respond and refine their positions as more data comes to light.


Agreed.  Notice first that StarSong said "credible" scientists.  These would be the real scientists with a track record in research.  Then, consider that we are all learning about this virus together so we have to expect that scientists will get some things wrong along the way, but will correct previous statements when new data shows previous observations to be false.  Remember that science deals mostly in hypothesis, so that whatever science says it knows currently, is always open to change if and when new data comes to light that requires such correction.  Over the course of this virus, we have seen conflicting views among those scientists and medical people doing the research as each involved collected new data.  Unfortunately, politics has played a far too large role in this, muddying the waters so it is difficult for the general public to know which end is up and what to do.

Over time, what the general public is to do has been distilled into a few easy to understand action items such as wearing masks, social distance, wash hands frequently.

For me personally, it is not particularly important at this point to know where the virus originated.  The "who is at fault" blame thing seems to me to be more about politics.  To researchers, determining where it originated and how, is important because they will want to more thoroughly understand the virus and possibly address the situation that allowed the virus to transfer to humans as a preventative measure in the future.  Also, such study may help to make the response to the next similar virus more efficient and therefore, help save lives.

Tony


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## StarSong (Feb 13, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> Agreed.  Notice first that StarSong said "credible" scientists.  These would be the real scientists with a track record in research.  Then, consider that we are all learning about this virus together so we have to expect that scientists will get some things wrong along the way, but will correct previous statements when new data shows previous observations to be false.  Over the course of this virus, we have seen conflicting views among those scientists and medical people doing the research as each involved collected new data.  Unfortunately, politics has played a far too large role in this, muddying the waters so it is difficult for the general public to know which end is up and what to do.
> 
> Over time, what the general public is to do has been distilled into a few easy to understand action items such as wearing masks, social distance, wash hands frequently.
> 
> ...


Exactly.  It's important to look at the scientist's credentials, body of work, track record, and affiliations.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 13, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Yes of course because we all know that science has never, ever, in history been wrong.


"*Science* is the study of the nature and behaviour of natural things and the knowledge that we obtain about them. The best discoveries in *science* are very *simple*. ... A *science* is a particular branch of *science* such as physics, chemistry, or biology."

I'm not saying the science of trying to distinguish where the virus originated from is right or wrong. I'm not saying the science behind the Covid vaccine is right or wrong, how can I, or how can you?

All I'm saying is science can be and has been wrong in the past.
Scientists are human, humans make mistakes.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Feb 13, 2021)

I think bias/politics is the reason it was pinned on a lab in China. A former world leader convinced many by pushing the xenophobic name "China virus." Luckily science and saner heads prevailed with the proper name COVID-19.


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## tbeltrans (Feb 13, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "*Science* is the study of the nature and behaviour of natural things and the knowledge that we obtain about them. The best discoveries in *science* are very *simple*. ... A *science* is a particular branch of *science* such as physics, chemistry, or biology."
> 
> I'm not saying the science of trying to distinguish where the virus originated from is right or wrong. I'm not saying the science behind the Covid vaccine is right or wrong, how can I, or how can you?
> 
> ...


I used to work with a guy, a mathematician, who said that the difference between religion and science is that science is willing to admit when it is wrong.  Though I don't doubt that some will take offense at that, it was worth a chuckle since I remember when the Catholic Church "forgave" Galileo, but never (openly) admitted he was right.  It is rather odd, thinking back on my experience in Catholic school, that the science we were taught included Galileo's findings without question.  So I figure that whole thing involving "forgiving" Galileo was more about the politics involved than what the Church actually thought.

Edit: Correction to my statement about the Catholic Church above.  According to the NY Times, the Catholic Church finally did admit that Galileo was right, in 1984:

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/31/...-vatican-says-galileo-was-right-it-moves.html

Tony


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## mathjak107 (Feb 14, 2021)

The Who and cdc have been so wrong about so much I believe nothing they tell us


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## tbeltrans (Feb 14, 2021)

I remember back in the 1960s and early 1970s when the WHO was a band.  They were a bit too loud, distorted, and slammy for my taste, but they were all over the media, and hard to miss.  So, though I know what WHO references here (World Health Organization), I knew of the WHO first and that sticks with me.  Old age, I guess.  

Tony


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## StarSong (Feb 14, 2021)

mathjak107 said:


> The Who and cdc have been so wrong about so much I believe nothing they tell us


They acknowledge mistakes, which is how medicine and science are supposed to work.  Otherwise they'd still be drilling holes in people's heads for headaches.


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## ProTruckDriver (Feb 14, 2021)

StarSong said:


> They acknowledge mistakes, which is how medicine and science are supposed to work.


We'll see here in the next few years, if they will with the new vaccine and if there are long term side effect's. 


Nosy Bee-54 said:


> I think bias/politics is the reason it was pinned on a lab in China. A former world leader convinced many by pushing the xenophobic name "China virus." Luckily science and saner heads prevailed with the proper name COVID-19.


This former leader was widely hated but you have to give credit that he got the vaccine rolling out within a year. Then again the Drug Companies didn't like him either for lowering drug prices and other things. Would the Drug Companies push out a vaccine that didn't work to get even with this leader??? Hmm, something to think about. No, I don't think they would do that since we have much confidence in the WHO and CDC.


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## win231 (Feb 14, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> OMG! You are reading my mind.


What did it for me was when they claimed that famous person with the funny yellow hair was "Seriously ill with Covid," then he was cured in 3 days with that experimental "Miracle" drug that was coincidentally approved.


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## tbeltrans (Feb 14, 2021)

win231 said:


> What did it for me was when they claimed that famous person with the funny yellow hair was "Seriously ill with Covid," then he was cured in 3 days with that experimental "Miracle" drug that was coincidentally approved.


...and in three days...he arose COVID-free.  Do ah hea an AMEN?!?!?!

It does seem a little odd, now that I think about it.   

I am not anti-Trump as many seem to be.  As with most Presidents, to me there is a mix of good and not so good.  However, there are certainly more glaring oddities with this Presidency than with most.

Tony


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## Giantsfan1954 (Feb 14, 2021)

Surprised the tin foil hat brigade hasn’t claimed germ warfare yet, or better still put it on Fakebook


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## tbeltrans (Feb 14, 2021)

What, me worry?   

Tony


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## StarSong (Feb 14, 2021)

win231 said:


> What did it for me was when they claimed that famous person with the funny yellow hair was "Seriously ill with Covid," then he was cured in 3 days with that experimental "Miracle" drug that was coincidentally approved.


The MD's weren't given the right to be honest or transparent about that story.  HIPAA laws would have prevented them from divulging the truth or correcting false information.


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## RadishRose (Feb 14, 2021)

chic said:


> I thought it was said to have started with contaminated minks in Denmark. The minks were all exterminated.


I thought the minks came later, but as usual, I'm confused in many aspects of this disease.


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## tbeltrans (Feb 14, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> I thought the minks came later, but as usual, I'm confused in many aspects of this disease.


No, it was a UFO visitation, but nobody has been able to nail down who or where.  Of course, I never read or heard this tidbit anywhere, but it sounds good to me.   

Like you, I think many of us are "confused in many aspects of this disease", so you are definitely not alone in that.

Tony


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