# Biden orders employees of big businesses to be vaccinated or face testing



## Alligatorob (Sep 9, 2021)

This will be interesting.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58508547

I am a bit ambivalent on this one.  I am a vaccine supporter, got mine last spring and plan on a booster in a couple of months.

However I do not like the idea of the government telling people what to do, not unless its really necessary.  For most folks I think the government's role should be to provide the best available data and information.  Then let people decide for themselves.  I think given good information most rational people will choose to get vaccinated.  

On the other hand some people do work in settings that puts them and the public at greater risk.  Requiring vaccines for these people may make sense.  But I'd want that list to be short.


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## Irwin (Sep 9, 2021)

Let the rioting begin!  

The U.S. has a long history of mandating vaccines.

In January 1777, George Washington, who at the time was the general of the Continental forces, pushed for troops to be inoculated against Variola, commonly known as smallpox.​​According to historical records, the situation was dire. Camps were being transformed into sickbays and it was driving down enlistments. In contrast, in Europe, the early origins of modern day vaccinations were already sweeping across society. This is believed to have given the British army a slight advantage.​​A few decades later, in 1802, Massachusetts became the first state to push for vaccine uptake. In 1809, the state passed the the first vaccine mandate law. By 1900, almost half of the 45 existing states had mandated smallpox vaccines for children going to school.​​*In 1905, the Massachusetts Supreme Court ruled that people did not have the right to infect other people with smallpox in Jacobson v Massachusetts, which upheld the law after a challenge to the $5 fine imposed on those not compliant.*​​The case of Zucht v King led the Texas Supreme Court to rule in 1922 that it was not unconstitutional to ban unvaccinated children from educational establishments​​In 1963, 20 states, along with Washington DC and Puerto Rico, had added more vaccines to the mandate list. Other diseases, such as measles, promoted more government intervention in the 1960s, leading to areas in the 1970s seeing much lower death rates from the disease than those who had not mandated vaccines. For example, in Los Angeles and Alaska, mandates drastically increased attendance in classrooms, and in response, scientists called vaccine mandates a successful public health policy.​​https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...shington-covid-vaccine-mandates-b1916296.html​
I'd like to see more people use the bolded argument that *people do not have the right to infect others*, only in this case, with covid-19, and let's impose a $10,000 fine for the self-centered individuals who won't do what's right for our country.


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## Bellbird (Sep 9, 2021)

""I'd like to see more people use the bolded argument that *people do not have the right to infect others*, only in this case, with covid-19, and let's impose a $10,000 fine for the self-centered individuals who won't do what's right for our country.""
Amen to that.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

Bellbird said:


> ""I'd like to see more people use the bolded argument that *people do not have the right to infect others*, only in this case, with covid-19, and let's impose a $10,000 fine for the self-centered individuals who won't do what's right for our country.""
> Amen to that.


"and let's impose a $10,000 fine" for the vaccinated infected too, what right do they have to be running around infecting people.


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "and let's impose a $10,000 fine" for the vaccinated infected too, what right do they have to be running around infecting people.


How dare you stimulate intelligent thought!!


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "and let's impose a $10,000 fine" for the vaccinated infected too, what right do they have to be running around infecting people.


Yes, starting with Rev. Jesse Jackson & his wife; vaccinated on TV 'cuz they're.....heroes.  They can pay the fine with money they stole from so many.
And Oscar De La Hoya; he can also afford it.
Several KISS band members who got Covid after being vaccinated - they can afford any fine.
Hillary Duff - breakthrough case.  She can also afford any fine.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 10, 2021)

Testing is what should have been going on from the get-go. 
Positive result = quarantine and treatment. 
Negative result = go on about your business.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "and let's impose a $10,000 fine" for the vaccinated infected too, what right do they have to be running around infecting people.


if everyone was vaccinated there wouldn't be vaccinated ,infected people .who brought about these breakthrough cases" in the first place ? the unvaccinated, of course!.


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 10, 2021)

IMO it's a step in the right direction.

Not much point in commenting further.

We've been together discussing this for well over a year and we pretty much know where each of us stands on the topic.







No matter what you think about the virus or the vaccine you gotta love Calvin and Hobbes.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO it's a step in the right direction.
> 
> Not much point in commenting further.
> 
> ...


i agree!


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> if everyone was vaccinated there wouldn't be vaccinated ,infected people .who brought about these breakthrough cases" in the first place ? the unvaccinated, of course!.


Uh, just a suggestion:  Review your post before clicking _"Post Reply."_


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## Gaer (Sep 10, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> This will be interesting.
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58508547
> 
> I am a bit ambivalent on this one.  I am a vaccine supporter, got mine last spring and plan on a booster in a couple of months.
> ...


I agree with you.
Overstepping boundaries.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> if everyone was vaccinated there wouldn't be vaccinated ,infected people .who brought about these breakthrough cases" in the first place ? the unvaccinated, of course!.


No one ever stops to realize we missed the boat in getting the entire world vaccinated in a crucial short time frame to end Covid.

In order to end it every person in the world would have to of been vaccinated within a very few weeks.

When vaccines came out, some countries didn't have a vaccine, it was months later until they had one. 

Travel was still happening between some countries, spreading the virus.

When they did, just like the US, there were issues such as, not enough vaccine, storage problems due to the extreme cold temps required. I remember so many here on this forum having problems getting an appointment for the vaccines.

Blame whoever you and others wish to blame, you will anyway.

Have a nice day. ⚘


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## squatting dog (Sep 10, 2021)

Can anyone provide a link to show documented scientific proof that any person, vaccinated or not has infected other people.


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## Judycat (Sep 10, 2021)

I don't care anymore. If someone asks if I'm vaccinated, I'll say yeah. If they start with the conspiracy crap, I walk away. I really don't care what they do, why, or what happens to "innocent people" because of it.


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> No one ever stops to realize we missed the boat in getting the entire world vaccinated in a crucial short time frame to end Covid.
> 
> In order to end it every person in the world would have to of been vaccinated within a very few weeks.
> 
> ...


I don't how they handled it in your state, but in CA, when vaccines first became available, they only gave it to health care workers.  No one else could get it, even if they wanted it.  Everyone was told to wait.
Same with N-95 masks - which were said to be effective, while they admitted other masks were useless; including Dr. Fauci.  We were told to wear useless paper masks because there was a shortage of Medical masks & they were needed for health care workers.  Later, we were told any mask provides protection.   When they alter the truth to fit the situation, they create distrust.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> No one ever stops to realize we missed the boat in getting the entire world vaccinated in a crucial short time frame to end Covid.
> 
> In order to end it every person in the world would have to of been vaccinated within a very few weeks.
> 
> ...


i was just stating what is obvious .you have a nice day as well


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

win231 said:


> Uh, just a suggestion:  Review your post before clicking _"Post Reply."_


uh.ty


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

win231 said:


> I don't how they handled it in your state, but in CA, when vaccines first became available, they only gave it to health care workers.  No one else could get it, even if they wanted it.  Everyone was told to wait.
> Same with N-95 masks - which were said to be effective, while they admitted other masks were useless; including Dr. Fauci.  We were told to wear useless paper masks because there was a shortage of Medical masks & they were needed for health care workers.  Later, we were told any mask provides protection.   When they alter the truth to fit the situation, they create distrust.


Right and it should have been given to *everyone* in order to stop the spread. But there wasn't enough so as I said missed the boat on stopping it.


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## chic (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> if everyone was vaccinated there wouldn't be vaccinated ,infected people .who brought about these breakthrough cases" in the first place ? the unvaccinated, of course!.


What about Israel? They have breakthrough cases and they have a 90% vaccination rate. Explain to me again how all this is the fault of the unvaccinated?


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

chic said:


> What about Israel? They have breakthrough cases and they have a 90% vaccination rate. Explain to me again how all this is the fault of the unvaccinated?


LOL - that would require a very creative answer.  But I'm sure the blamers will come up with one.
_"Yoohoo"_


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

chic said:


> What about Israel? They have breakthrough cases and they have a 90% vaccination rate. Explain to me again how all this is the fault of the unvaccinated?


90% is not100%. 100%vaccination rate would be a start in eliminating the virus.ho many years did it take to eliminate polio after a vaccine ws developed?


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## RadishRose (Sep 10, 2021)

I am pro vax. However, Becky and Chic do have valid points.
I'm getting my booster shot tomorrow. (3rd)


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

For those who have had Covid.​​Positive Antibody Test 'Equivalent' To Vaccination, Under Kentucky Bill​
https://www.wuky.org/post/positive-antibody-test-equivalent-vaccination-under-kentucky-bill#stream/0


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## John cycling (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> if everyone was vaccinated there wouldn't be vaccinated ,infected people .who brought about these breakthrough cases" in the first place ? the unvaccinated, of course!.



Definition of *unvaccinated* = vaccinated people who've been vaccinated within the last 3 to 4 weeks and got sick right away from the poisons. 

Breakthough cases = people who were *vaccinated* more than 4 weeks ago and are no longer called unvaccinated. 

People who *haven't been vaccinated* aren't counted because we don't get sick from the poisons!


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> For those who have had Covid.​​Positive Antibody Test 'Equivalent' To Vaccination, Under Kentucky Bill​
> https://www.wuky.org/post/positive-antibody-test-equivalent-vaccination-under-kentucky-bill#stream/0


some die of covid


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## Been There (Sep 10, 2021)

Only states have the right to mandate masking. The Federal Government is out of line on this issue.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> some die of covid


Well I guess then they don't need to be tested in order to save their job's.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Well I guess then they don't need to be tested in order to save their job's.


i don't understand your point


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

Been There said:


> Only states have the right to mandate masking. The Federal Government is out of line on this issue.


Read this.

https://en.as.com/en/2021/09/10/latest_news/1631227244_232419.html


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> i don't understand your point


Nor I yours because my post was about a positive Antibody Test is the same as having antibodies from the vaccine, no no need to have the vaccine. 

For anyone who has had covid and doesn wish to be vaccinated because they are just as protected from covid as those vaccinated. 

Think of all the employees who have had covid, they have antibodies but will be fired if they refuse to be vaccinated, is that fair?


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 10, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> I'm getting my booster shot tomorrow. (3rd)




How did you manage that?

The only thing available here is the traditional flu shot.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

it appears that all your arguments come from the "american spectator"
"or similar publications. what are your reference materials?


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Nor I yours because my post was about a positive Antibody Test is the same as having antibodies from the vaccine, no no need to have the vaccine.
> 
> For anyone who has had covid and doesn wish to be vaccinated because they are just as protected from covid as those vaccinated.
> 
> Think of all the employees who have had covid, they have antibodies but will be fired if they refuse to be vaccinated, is that fair?


people who have the virus and produce antibodies are fortunate. they could have easily died. the covid-19 disease is not fair.


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## RadishRose (Sep 10, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> How did you manage that?
> 
> The only thing available here is the traditional flu shot.


CVS online. My doctors office has it too. Also Stop and Shop.
Maybe you'll find some if you do an online search. Keep at it.

Maybe if you didn't live near Mount Pilot......LOL... look in Mayberry
Good luck Bea.


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 10, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> CVS online. My doctors office has it too. Also Stop and Shop.
> Maybe you'll find some if you do an online search. Keep at it.
> 
> Maybe if you didn't live near Mount Pilot......LOL
> Good luck Bea.


I’m jealous!

I keep watching for news of a J&J booster.  The last I saw said maybe October.


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## Pepper (Sep 10, 2021)

Let's face it.  In a situation where someone's ideas of freedom may cause the end of the world we just shoot them in the head & move on.  Not suggesting Covid is the end of the world, just speculating on a situation where we have to deal with morons.


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## RadishRose (Sep 10, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> J&J booster.


Pfizer, here. Guess that's why.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> it appears that all your arguments come from the "american spectator"
> "or similar publications. what are your reference materials?


Since you obviously didn't even read the article otherwise you would have understood my reply about


suds00 said:


> it appears that all your arguments come from the "american spectator"
> "or similar publications. what are your reference materials?


Since you obviously didn't even read the article otherwise you would have understood my reply about not needing a job, instead you try to attack my sources. 

Plus you seem to think I have no understanding that people die from Covid.  No Covid isn't fair, no disease or virus is fair. Losing your job, most likely then losing your home by not having a paycheck  while have the needed antibodies just because you don't need a vaccination isn't fair either.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Let's face it.  In a situation where someone's ideas of freedom may cause the end of the world we just shoot them in the head & move on.  Not suggesting Covid is the end of the world, just speculating on a situation where we have to deal with morons.


Oh yes lets grab all those and don't forget the ones who can't take the vaccine due to the high risk of being vaccinated, remember they can spread the virus too. Line em pepper!  Come get me honey I'll be waiting......locked and loaded.


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## Pepper (Sep 10, 2021)

I ain't getting no one, Becky.  But in a war, in life, that's the way it is and must be.  You save for the greater good, not someone whining.

Was thinking of the Jewish women during WWII in hiding who had to smother their own infants to keep them from crying so as not to be found.  Desperate situations call for desperate measures, not discussions. That's why I said I was speculating.

Ok, I'll come get you, and we'll go out for lunch.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I ain't getting no one, Becky.  But in a war, in life, that's the way it is and must be.  You save for the greater good, not someone whining.
> 
> Was thinking of the Jewish women during WWII in hiding who had to smother their own infants to keep them from crying so as not to be found.  Desperate situations call for desperate measures, not discussions. That's why I said I was speculating.
> 
> Ok, I'll come get you, and we'll go out for lunch.


Yes and remember the dictator who caused that. History repeating itself, now with loss of freedom of choice in ones medical choices. 

Olive garden sounds good.


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## Lewkat (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> it appears that all your arguments come from the "american spectator"
> "or similar publications. what are your reference materials?


Why should she have to read other publications to make you happy?  Read them yourself.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> Why should she have to read other publications to make you happy?  Read them yourself.


thanks i will.


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## Lewkat (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> some die of covid


That is still being disputed in the medical community.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Since you obviously didn't even read the article otherwise you would have understood my reply about
> 
> Since you obviously didn't even read the article otherwise you would have understood my reply about not needing a job, instead you try to attack my sources.
> 
> Plus you seem to think I have no understanding that people die from Covid.  No Covid isn't fair, no disease or virus is fair. Losing your job, most likely then losing your home by not having a paycheck  while have the needed antibodies just because you don't need a vaccination isn't fair either.


nor is death.in fact, it's the ultimate in unfairness for most.the article made little if any sense


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## Irwin (Sep 10, 2021)

Even if you've had covid-19, you should still get vaccinated for greater protection from re-infection.

In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. These data further indicate that COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone and that vaccines, even after prior infection, help prevent reinfections.​https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html​


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## fmdog44 (Sep 10, 2021)

To all waivers of Old Glory so deeply concerned about your civil rights while infecting and killing those around you how many must die before you realize the dead have rights of any kind and more and more very young children are getting infected? You are responsible for the medical workers being worked to exhaustion and you could care less but why do you suddenly turn to them to save your useless lives when you get infected? When you get infected and are approaching death why not put a sign on your head reading," *I'm standing up for my rights but I won't be standing long." *

Deaths are rising in 42 states, the worst tally seen since December. In the week ending Wednesday, the U.S. reported 5,742 deaths, nearly double the total from two weeks earlier. The 10,991 Americans who died of COVID-19 in the first 18 days of August are already more than all the fatalities in June or July. The nearly 2.2 million U.S. cases in those first 18 days make this the fifth-worst month in the pandemic, blowing past the highest monthly totals of the 2020 spring and summer surges, with case counts rising in 44 states.


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> people who have the virus and produce antibodies are fortunate. they could have easily died. the covid-19 disease is not fair.


Oh, yes it is fair.  That's why we have to wear a mask when we walk into a restaurant, but we can take it off after we sit down.
Covid is a very considerate virus & would never infect anyone while they're eating or drinking.
And that's also why several politicians were able to dine out in restaurants owned by people who donated to their campaign, while everyone else had to close their businesses for a year during the lockdown.
Covid knew how important these people were.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

Oh Oh!  Not good.  I just heard this and NO I can't give a link as it came to me by word of mouth.  And before I get accused of anything, I am *100% Against* this involvement.  

Antifa is getting involved in setting up protests against this mandate. 

IMO that is not a good thing, riots and violence are their way of protesting.


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## mellowyellow (Sep 10, 2021)

You are a very brave lady Becky not to be afraid of this virus, being unvaccinated would scare me to death.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> You are a very brave lady Becky not to be afraid of this virus, being unvaccinated would scare me to death.


When did I ever say I wasn't afraid of this virus? Never that's when.

I am unvaccinated due to high risk, my Dr advised against it! 

I am Pro Choice, and in the beginning I was waiting to see how safe the vaccines were, then I decided I wanted the J&J vaccine, then it caused blood clotting problems! Then I had a pre set Dr appointment coming up so I asked my Dr's opinion. 

I've had every vaccine available up until now. I'm not ANTI VAX. 

I believe in a person's right to choose and I believe in considering all available information.


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## mellowyellow (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> When did I ever say I wasn't afraid of this virus? Never that's when.
> 
> I am unvaccinated due to high risk, my Dr advised against it!
> 
> ...


I apologise Becky, not having read through all the posts, I jumped to the wrong conclusion that you were anti-vax.


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## Lewkat (Sep 10, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Even if you've had covid-19, you should still get vaccinated for greater protection from re-infection.
> 
> In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. These data further indicate that COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone and that vaccines, even after prior infection, help prevent reinfections.​https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html​


I wish I'd kept the article where it has emphatically stated that once one has had the virus, one is immune since we still carry the antibodies.  Even before I was vaccinated, almost a year later, I had the antibodies.  My blood work keeps bearing this out.


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## terry123 (Sep 10, 2021)

Bellbird said:


> ""I'd like to see more people use the bolded argument that *people do not have the right to infect others*, only in this case, with covid-19, and let's impose a $10,000 fine for the self-centered individuals who won't do what's right for our country.""
> Amen to that.


Amen here too!!


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## RadishRose (Sep 10, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> once one has had the virus, one is immune since we still carry the antibodies


Isn't that true of any virus?


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## chic (Sep 11, 2021)




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## Sunny (Sep 11, 2021)

Chic, didn't we have a similar requirement for smallpox vaccination?  (And that's why the disease was wiped out!)

Did that cause this to stop being a free country?  What rights did anyone lose?  The right to die of smallpox?


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## fmdog44 (Sep 11, 2021)

Why should I risk going to work only to be forced to work with nonvaccinated dumb asses? Good work Mr. President.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 11, 2021)

chic said:


> View attachment 183346


Then those family members of the people you infected should have the right to file murder charges against you. You believe is it your patriotic duty to risk the heath and lives around you. Do you also drive drunk?


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## fmdog44 (Sep 11, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Oh yes lets grab all those and don't forget the ones who can't take the vaccine due to the high risk of being vaccinated, remember they can spread the virus too. Line em pepper!  Come get me honey I'll be waiting......locked and loaded.


Of the hundreds of thousands dead so far and growing how many were vaccinated?


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## fmdog44 (Sep 11, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Read this.
> 
> https://en.as.com/en/2021/09/10/latest_news/1631227244_232419.html


It adds cookies


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## fmdog44 (Sep 11, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I’m jealous!
> 
> I keep watching for news of a J&J booster.  The last I saw said maybe October.


As of 9/11 only Pfizer boosters are starting to become available.


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## chic (Sep 11, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Chic, didn't we have a similar requirement for smallpox vaccination?  (And that's why the disease was wiped out!)
> 
> Did that cause this to stop being a free country?  What rights did anyone lose?  The right to die of smallpox?


I was never asked for my small pox vaccination status to be allowed in anywhere and therein is the difference between then and now.


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## chic (Sep 11, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Then those family members of the people you infected should have the right to file murder charges against you. You believe is it your patriotic duty to risk the heath and lives around you. Do you also drive drunk?


Oh grow up. I haven't murdered anybody just by living and breathing.


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## ManjaroKDE (Sep 11, 2021)

> *Mandate:*


To officially require (something) *: *make (something) mandatory *: *order a law _mandating_ recycling also *: *to direct or require (someone) to do something a commission _mandated_ to investigate corruption. Merriam-Webster Dictionary

We live with ‘rules’ – mandates in almost everything we do.

Next time you get in a car to drive somewhere, think of all the rules you must follow.

Most mandated by an entity of either the state or federal governments.

You must have a license to operate an auto.
You must have at least liability insurance,
The auto must be registered and licensed.
You must use your seat belts or other restraints if available.
You cannot operate one under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs.
You should obey the speed limits.
You must stop for school buses.
You should obey all road signs.
You should stop for red lights and warning lights.
You should keep your auto in good shape (inspections are a must in most states).
I could go on and on listing mandate that the manufactures must follow for your safety.

We must file a tax return every April 15th. Avoid that and see what the IRS says.

Get a life - everyone must follow rules to belong.


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## suds00 (Sep 11, 2021)

chic said:


> I was never asked for my small pox vaccination status to be allowed in anywhere and therein is the difference between then and now.


smallpox has been controlled and is not as easily spread as covid-19;which is new to humans.


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## Been There (Sep 11, 2021)

Only states have the right to mandate masking. The Federal Government is out of line on this issue.

You want to slow the spread of COVID? How about closing the borders to the untested, unvetted illegals. Over 1,000,000 illegals have entered the U.S. since our $%@##%$ opened the flood gates to all illegals from around the globe. They don’t get tested or vaccinated. And you thought this was a great country. It is, for the illegals.


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## RadishRose (Sep 11, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> As of 9/11 only Pfizer boosters are starting to become available.


I just had mine earlier today.


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## Been There (Sep 11, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> I just had mine earlier today.


Good for you Rose. Isn’t it the same vaccine and dosage as the other two doses?


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## ManjaroKDE (Sep 11, 2021)

Vaccinate or not, WTH does it matter, I don't care whether you use horse medication, aspirin, supplements or god to avoid the virus (fake or not).  I use what I think would be best for me.  Masks - great for allergies, cold sensitive teeth or a runny nose.   Social distancing - not one that likes close talkers or touchy-feely people, keeping your distance works for me.  I wash my hands after using the can, always did no biggie. 

Atheist, so religious gatherings are not happening.  I'm compromised, my PCP suggested I get the vaccine, He's got more knowledge and experience than I.  As for the 3rd Pfizer dose, my 8 months are not up until late November.  By then I hope the kinks are worked out and either most will have died or their chip is healed.


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## RadishRose (Sep 11, 2021)

Been There said:


> Good for you Rose. Isn’t it the same vaccine and dosage as the other two doses?


Thanks. I never knew the dosages. All three are Pfizer.


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## Sunny (Sep 11, 2021)

Rose, is the Pfizer now available to anyone vaccinated at least 8 months ago, or only to the immunocompromised?

I had two Pfizer shots, in Jan. and Feb. So it's a little too soon for me. But I'm just wondering if I'll be able to get the booster next month.


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## John cycling (Sep 11, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Why should I risk going to work only to be forced to work with nonvaccinated dumb asses?



Such a potty mouth.   
And totally devoid of any scientific knowledge nor reasoning capacity whatsoever.



fmdog44 said:


> Of the hundreds of thousands dead so far and growing how many were vaccinated?



All of them.  100 percent.
To date, *no one* has ever died from the poisons who hasn't been injected with them.
And no one ever will.  This is basic logic and common sense 101.


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## win231 (Sep 11, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Why should I risk going to work only to be forced to work with nonvaccinated dumb asses? Good work Mr. President.


A "Dumbass" is someone who gets a vaccine that they obviously have no confidence in.
There is no risk to you because your vaccine would protect you from those "Unvaccinated dumbasses."


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## chic (Sep 11, 2021)

ManjaroKDE said:


> To officially require (something) *: *make (something) mandatory *: *order a law _mandating_ recycling also *: *to direct or require (someone) to do something a commission _mandated_ to investigate corruption. Merriam-Webster Dictionary
> 
> We live with ‘rules’ – mandates in almost everything we do.
> 
> ...


Injecting a drug into your body shouldn't be one of them though. There's a big difference between obeying the rules of the road and having a drug injected into you. And it doesn't protect the injected or others either as we have learned. The vaccinated can still catch and transmit covid which is not a stable virus like small pox or polio were.

So you think we need to follow the rules to belong? Get injected with a drug that isn't as safe as they say or does what they had intended it should. Those words are chilling. Vaccinate to participate?

Maybe you're the one who needs to get a life? You're obviously scared witless by this virus and will do as your government who does not have your best interests at heart, instructs you. I wouldn't take a serious drug like this one just to make another person feel "comfortable" about a medical decision they made for themselves. Your choice. My choice.


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## Shero (Sep 11, 2021)

Mr Biden is not my President but we live in the same world and we both want a healthy one, so I agree with him all the way. Bien fait Mr Biden !!


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## Don M. (Sep 11, 2021)

I'm not a big fan of government "regulations".  However, at some point, regulations become necessary if people don't have enough good sense to behave.  The statistics have shown the odds of getting severely ill, or dying are substantially reduced once a person is vaccinated.  If that isn't good enough for some people, they need to "pay the price".


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## win231 (Sep 11, 2021)

chic said:


> Injecting a drug into your body shouldn't be one of them though. There's a big difference between obeying the rules of the road and having a drug injected into you. And it doesn't protect the injected or others either as we have learned. The vaccinated can still catch and transmit covid which is not a stable virus like small pox or polio were.
> 
> So you think we need to follow the rules to belong? Get injected with a drug that isn't as safe as they say or does what they had intended it should. Those words are chilling. Vaccinate to participate?
> 
> Maybe you're the one who needs to get a life? You're obviously scared witless by this virus and will do as your government who does not have your best interests at heart, instructs you. I wouldn't take a serious drug like this one just to make another person feel "comfortable" about a medical decision they made for themselves. Your choice. My choice.


"ManjaroKDE has a life.  He's a controller who likes to control other people's lives.


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## ohioboy (Sep 11, 2021)

Been There said:


> Only states have the right to mandate masking. The Federal Government is out of line on this issue.


Is that a personal opinion, a legal one, or both?


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## Alligatorob (Sep 12, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Can anyone provide a link to show documented scientific proof that any person, vaccinated or not has infected other people.


A good question.  Scientific studies are always more useful than person opinions.  Here are a couple that sort of get to your question.  One suggests viral loads and therefore the ability to transmit is the same vaccinated or not.  If that is true then the only way the vaccine slows transmission is by reducing the possibility of getting the virus, and there are a lot more scientific studies that show reduced rates of infection after vaccination.  

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261295v1

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v4.full-text

Going to the underlying science by searching out and reading literature of this kind is hard, but I believe will lead people to more reasonable opinions.  From my research, admittedly limited, it appears to me we have a vaccine that does reduce infection rates and infection severity, but it's not 100% effective (a side note, vaccines are never 100% effective so this is no surprise).  The vaccine has caused serious reactions and death in a few cases, but it looks to me like the risk of that is lower than the risks of getting infected (another side note, this is also true of all vaccinations, no surprise here either).  I am not sure being vaccinated lowers the transmission rate if you are one of the breakthrough cases.  

All that said there are lots of good scientific studies out there, and more being published every day.  So we will know more and learn more as time goes by.  Keeping up is impossible for a lay person like me, I just read the few I stumble on or search out.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 12, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Is that a personal opinion, a legal one, or both?


Hey Ohio, you seem one of the better legal minds here.  What is your thought on the legality of requiring masks, vaccinations, or other things?  By the US government or states, or any authority?

I hear a lot of conflicting and mostly non-expert opinions, would be interested in your more expert one.


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## old medic (Sep 12, 2021)

Bellbird said:


> ""I'd like to see more people use the bolded argument that *people do not have the right to infect others*, only in this case, with covid-19, and let's impose a $10,000 fine for the self-centered individuals who won't do what's right for our country.""
> Amen to that.


So... Lets See.... If you trust the vaccine to work.... whats the issue????? Your protected ... they die .. problem solved...


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## chic (Sep 12, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Is that a personal opinion, a legal one, or both?


That's what I've heard, also feds can't state can. Ditto with vaccine mandates.


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## Sunny (Sep 12, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Can anyone provide a link to show documented scientific proof that any person, vaccinated or not has infected other people.



Well, Squatting, when the rate of Covid, and particularly the rate of fatalities from Covid, is much, much higher  in locations where there is a lower vaccination rate (example: South Carolina) .....  when mass rallies, indoor concerts, sports events, parties, without masks, with an overwhelming number of unvaccinated attendees, result in immediate surges of the disease.... when entire families get the disease at around the same time... that's pretty good "scientific" proof to me!

What other conclusion do you come to?  The disease is projected onto earth by evil Martians?  Some demented Dr. Death madman has introduced into the food supply of every nation in the world?  We are thinking bad thoughts, so this is a punishment from heaven? There is no such disease at all, the whole thing is made up?

The scientific proof exists loud and clear, and it is ridiculous  (and pretty desperate) to try to suggest that the disease isn't caused by one person spreading it to another.

And as anyone knows who reads a newspaper or watches the news, the vaccine is not 100% effective. But once you are vaccinated, if you caught it,  you would probably just get a mild, flu-like version of the disease, and wouldn't die of it.

Are you really that dense, or are you just deliberately flogging a dead horse?


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## GAlady (Sep 12, 2021)

chic said:


> What about Israel? They have breakthrough cases and they have a 90% vaccination rate. Explain to me again how all this is the fault of the unvaccinated?


All persons vaccinated or unvaccinated can be carriers with symptoms or asymptotic.  I think Covid is here forever.


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## Brookswood (Sep 12, 2021)

If the employee head count for this is  100 employess, it will affect a lot of small businesses also.

Personally, I think this is a huge mistake as it will further  politisize the vaccination issue and not do much good.    Delta is going to march through the non vaccinated people for a few more months so those in the work force who truly end up with no immunity will be a very small number of people.   It's just going to sew more bad feelngs.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Sep 12, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Oh Oh!  Not good.  I just heard this and NO I can't give a link as it came to me by word of mouth.  And before I get accused of anything, I am *100% Against* this involvement.
> 
> Antifa is getting involved in setting up protests against this mandate.
> 
> IMO that is not a good thing, riots and violence are their way of protesting.


Still better than an attempted coup d'etat!


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## Becky1951 (Sep 12, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Well, Squatting, when the rate of Covid, and particularly the rate of fatalities from Covid, is much, much higher  in locations where there is a lower vaccination rate (example: South Carolina) .....  when mass rallies, indoor concerts, sports events, parties, without masks, with an overwhelming number of unvaccinated attendees, result in immediate surges of the disease.... when entire families get the disease at around the same time... that's pretty good "scientific" proof to me!
> 
> What other conclusion do you come to?  The disease is projected onto earth by evil Martians?  Some demented Dr. Death madman has introduced into the food supply of every nation in the world?  We are thinking bad thoughts, so this is a punishment from heaven? There is no such disease at all, the whole thing is made up?
> 
> ...



"But once you are vaccinated, if you caught it, you would probably just get a mild, flu-like version of the disease, and wouldn't die of it."

"Are you really that dense, or are you just deliberately flogging a dead horse?"

You can't comment without calling names can you?

I may be wrong but didn't you say in a former post that you were a retired school teacher?

Is this how you treated your students, calling them names? If little Joe misspelled a word did you call him dense? You call names so easily it seems like it's a life long habit you've acquired.

A person has the right to choose if being vaccinated or not.
As you said, "But once you are vaccinated, if you caught it, you would probably just get a mild, flu-like version of the disease, and wouldn't die of it."

So what's the problem? Those vaccinated will live, unvaccinated have the chance of beating Covid and living also, if not it's a risk they are willing to take.


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## ohioboy (Sep 12, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Hey Ohio, you seem one of the better legal minds here.  What is your thought on the legality of requiring masks, vaccinations, or other things?  By the US government or states, or any authority?
> 
> I hear a lot of conflicting and mostly non-expert opinions, would be interested in your more expert one.


Thank you for the compliment to start out . Man writes the laws, man interprets them. There is no way 100% of society can agree on statutory or common law that "on it's face" purports to deprive a person of their Civil Liberties. I side more with the mandates than ignoring the medical situation facing the Country. Usually a balance is attempted to be the best policy, but lives are being lost. Can I understand the reluctance of some to disregard the govt., sure. Bottom line, this can be considered War against a deadly virus, the best defensive weapon is compliance. Forced vaccinations is a very personal intrusion, but seems to be necessary except on the advice of a doctor that it may do more harm?


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## HoneyNut (Sep 12, 2021)

The company I work for had already told us last month that the company was going to require vaccination or regular testing.
But if the delta variant becomes infectious in 3.7 days it seems too late to test weekly.
We have already had to upload photos of our covid vaccine cards.
I think it is pointless to get fussed about the government saying companies have to do what those companies were already doing anyway, unless maybe companies pushed for the government to mandate it so they could point at the government if employees complain.  
At least the vaccine benefits me, which peeing in a cup for my company does not, but they require that sometimes too.


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