# Dr. Robert Malone



## chic (Dec 31, 2021)

Dr. Robert Malone, creator of mRNA technology has now been banned from twitter. Dr. Malone believes the vaccines were not intended for broad use as governments have initiated but for the old and vulnerable. He was outspoken against vaccinating children and believes the vaccines are causing the variants through ADE, antibody dependency enhancement much like antibiotics were overused decades ago. His censorship will be a sad loss for those of us who learned something from all he had to say. When experts are censored, it makes you worry.


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## HarryHawk (Dec 31, 2021)

I'm sure the censor at twitter knows alot more about the science than Malone.  Unfortunately, this certainly isn't surprising.


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## oldpeculier (Dec 31, 2021)

Shocked, just shocked, that twatter would silence free speech. Don't step out of line least the muzzle, comrade.


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## Judycat (Dec 31, 2021)

I too, like Robert Malone am miffed that I am not recognized for invention of the Robot Vacuum Cleaner. I was derided for such an outlandish idea back in the 1970s. Yet there they are on department store shelves everywhere to the lurking horror of thousands of dogs and cats.


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## HarryHawk (Dec 31, 2021)

Never question "The Science".  Just ask Copernicus and Galileo and the folks who lived during the Dark Ages.  

Science welcomes contrasting theories, open debate and the free flow of ideas.  "The Science" does not.  "The Science" seeks to ban and censor; it is absolute and unquestionable.


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## chic (Dec 31, 2021)

HarryHawk said:


> Never question "The Science".  Just ask Copernicus and Galileo and the folks who lived during the Dark Ages.
> 
> Science welcomes contrasting theories, open debate and the free flow of ideas.  "The Science" does not.  "The Science" seeks to ban and censor; it is absolute and unquestionable.


Galileo was absolutely vilified and never lived to see himself exonerated.


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## Jeni (Dec 31, 2021)

Most of any doctors or scientists that  questioned anything about these vaccines  have been shut down.
everything has been done to ruin their career so many called quacks 
I saw an article about two Swedish doctors that said this type of vaccine would  speed up variants.... i went back to find article and could not find it again. 
Tech should NOT be censoring items just because perhaps as a whole group  but even a single staff person not disagreeing. 

Kids learn more seeing what is happening..... then listening.   
They are seeing if you disagree shut people down ......... 
do not question it will become easier and easier to have total control by government.


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## chic (Dec 31, 2021)

Jeni said:


> Most of any doctors or scientists that  questioned anything about these vaccines  have been shut down.
> everything has been done to ruin their career so many called quacks
> I saw an article about two Swedish doctors that said this type of vaccine would  speed up variants.... i went back to find article and could not find it again.
> Tech should NOT be censoring items just because perhaps as a whole group  but even a single staff person not disagreeing.
> ...


Total control over the population is the idea. Why else silence one of the premier minds on mRNA vaccines? They are so afraid of what he will say.


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## Judycat (Dec 31, 2021)

To be honest, I think it is a mistake to censor alternate opinions. Yes some of this stuff gets certain groups fired up and some crazies go overboard with guns and other violence but when we censor free speech we are just giving ammo to those who believe in conspiracies and side with people who want to tear everything up. I'm wondering how the no government types are going to do anything constructive once anarchy takes over. Sounds like just random killings and violence to me.


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## Jeni (Dec 31, 2021)

Judycat said:


> To be honest, I think it is a mistake to censor alternate opinions. Yes some of this stuff gets certain groups fired up and some crazies go overboard with guns and other violence but when we censor free speech we are just giving ammo to those who believe in conspiracies and side with people who want to tear everything up. I wondering how the no government types are going to do anything constructive once anarchy takes over. Sounds like just random killings and violence to me.


i agree censorship increases those who feel a conspiracy issue..... doing exactly opposite of what these censorship policies say they want. 

people are NOT encouraged to read each angle and make up their mind but TOLD what to think or believe....

AS with ANY disagreement............... the TRUTH  lives in the middle ..... 
i was told that from a man who had decades of mediation who said very seldom had he seen one side be right. I use that every time assessing a situation since.... the truth is often somewhere in between sides of any issue.


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## oldpeculier (Dec 31, 2021)

https://www.rwmalonemd.com/

Summary: 
Who Dr. Malone is and what he believes


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## Don M. (Dec 31, 2021)

If you "google" this Dr. Malone, there are numerous sites debunking much of what he says.  Here is just one of many.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science...lone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/

This guy sounds like just another "expert" who is causing so much "division" over this pandemic.


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## oldpeculier (Dec 31, 2021)

^
 So fortunate for free speech that google and news sites like The Atlantic are so "unbias" and the undisputed champion of "reliable" information.


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## AnnieA (Dec 31, 2021)

Jeni said:


> people are NOT encouraged to read each angle and make up their mind but TOLD what to think or believe....
> 
> AS with ANY disagreement............... the TRUTH  lives in the middle .....
> i was told that from a man who had decades of mediation who said very seldom had he seen one side be right. I use that every time assessing a situation since.... the truth is often somewhere in between sides of any issue.



Preach it!
.


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## AnnieA (Dec 31, 2021)

Don M. said:


> If you "google" this Dr. Malone, there are numerous sites debunking much of what he says.  Here is just one of many.
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/science...lone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/
> 
> This guy sounds like just another "expert" who is causing so much "division" over this pandemic.



Did you miss the part that he's a pioneer in mRNA therapeutics?  Has been working with the technology since the 80s.  He is a virologist with a sound educational and employment background.

He knows  mRNA therapeutics have never passed clinical trials in all those years until the emergency Covid-19 vaccine.

To silence a person with his credentials is technological totalitarianism.  

.


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## Alligatorob (Dec 31, 2021)

This tread got me curious so I did a little research, and found:

Malone was in fact banned from Twitter, apparently for his anti-vaccination views.  I don't use or know Twitter, but this does not sound like the kind of thing a platform could call protection of free speech.  I certainly support the right of all to express their opinions even if I completely disagree.

As to Malone's claim that he is the "_inventor of the core mRNA vaccine technologies (including the idea of mRNA vaccines) and RNA transfection_" this is not clear.  Hundreds of people have worked on and contributed to the development of mRNA vaccines, he seems to be the only one loudly proclaiming that he is the "_inventor_" and many scientists dispute his claim.  See: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w

As to his opinions concerning current application of the vaccine I don't really have the technical knowledge to do a good assessment, but his views seem to be in the minority.  See https://www.theatlantic.com/science...lone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/ (same as cited above)

He may be controversial, but it is clear that he has good credentials and knows a lot about the vaccine.


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## AnnieA (Dec 31, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> I don't use or know Twitter, but this does not sound like the kind of thing a platform could call protection of free speech.  I certainly support the right of all to express their opinions even if I completely disagree.



Exactly.  And before someone goes there with "It's Jack Dorsey's and he can do what he wants" think of a debate team competing at a private school and the moderator silencing a person because the moderator doesn't like the content of that participant's argument.  

Humans--like frogs in a pot of cold water progressing to boiling--are susceptible to conditioning.


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## Pepper (Dec 31, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Exactly.  And before someone goes there with "It's Jack Dorsey's and he can do what he wants" *think of a debate team competing at a private school and the moderator silencing a person because the moderator doesn't like the content of that participant's argument. *


That actually happened to me.  I was arguing the right to have an abortion (before Roe) and was silenced by the moderator who was a Catholic "spinster!"

Oops there I go again, off-topic.  Sorry.


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## Alligatorob (Dec 31, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Exactly. And before someone goes there with "It's Jack Dorsey's and he can do what he wants" think of a debate team competing at a private school and the moderator silencing a person because the moderator doesn't like the content of that participant's argument.


Privately owned outlets have that right.  And we as consumers have the right to ignore outlets like this.  I am doing my best to do my part.


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## AnnieA (Dec 31, 2021)

Pepper said:


> That actually happened to me.  I was arguing the right to have an abortion (before Roe) and was silenced by the moderator who was a Catholic "spinster!"
> 
> Oops there I go again, off-topic.  Sorry.



It isn't off topic at all.  It was the task of the other participant to attempt to win the point against your arguments, not the moderator's job to suppress you.   It was her 'right' to exercise at a private school, but it didn't empower critical thinking.  There's a concerted effort to diminish critical thinking these days and it's very concerning.  We swung to the center for a bit since your school debate days, but the pendulum has gone waaaaaay off course from those overly conservative days.    The swings too far in either direction are equally dangerous.
.


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## Shero (Dec 31, 2021)

Poor old Dr Malone, it must be tough not to be recognized for being a lab attendant amongst dozens. 
Talk about sour grapes.
Where do you dig these things up from Chic?


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## Don M. (Dec 31, 2021)

Shero said:


> Poor old Dr Malone, it must be tough not to be recognized for being a lab attendant amongst dozens.
> Talk about sour grapes.
> Where do you dig these things up from Chic?


It would be interesting to see where these people who think this virus is a hoax, or that the vaccines are poison, etc., get their information.  They Never seem to post the source of their "truth".  I suppose they must spend a considerable amount of time browsing obscure internet, or social media sites looking for anything that supports their ideas.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 31, 2021)

Judycat said:


> To be honest, I think it is a mistake to censor alternate opinions. Yes some of this stuff gets certain groups fired up and some crazies go overboard with guns and other violence but when we censor free speech we are just giving ammo to those who believe in conspiracies and side with people who want to tear everything up. I wondering how the no government types are going to do anything constructive *once anarchy takes over*. Sounds like just random killings and violence to me.


Do you think anarchy is inevitable at some point?


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## Murrmurr (Dec 31, 2021)

Don M. said:


> It would be interesting to see where these people who think this virus is a hoax, or that the vaccines are poison, etc., get their information.  They Never seem to post the source of their "truth".  I suppose they must spend a considerable amount of time browsing obscure internet, or social media sites looking for anything that supports their ideas.


I don't think anyone on here thinks the coronavirus is a hoax. Some believe the reaction from gov't and politicians is greatly flawed, and I agree, but I haven't seen any posts on Senior Forums saying the virus is a hoax. So it's logical there wouldn't be any references to sources for that claim either.


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## Shero (Dec 31, 2021)

Don M. said:


> It would be interesting to see where these people who think this virus is a hoax, or that the vaccines are poison, etc., get their information.  They Never seem to post the source of their "truth".  I suppose they must spend a considerable amount of time browsing obscure internet, or social media sites looking for anything that supports their ideas.


Too right Don! Some of our anti vaxxer "friends"  comb through haystacks looking for a glimmer of a rusty needle to show each other they have something of value. Of course all they find is twaddle!!
.


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## Shero (Dec 31, 2021)

Chic,  you cannot hide from me. You have to try and do better next time! I always come up with the goods 

The development of mRNA vaccines was a* collaborative *effort; Robert Malone contributed to their development, *but he is not their inventor.*

The development of the mRNA vaccines is *due to the work of hundreds of researchers, one of which is Robert Malone*. Together with his co-authors, Malone contributed early evidence that mRNA could be delivered and produce proteins in cells. However, because crucial hurdles to develop the mRNA vaccines were resolved by many researchers , *Malone cannot be claimed the inventor of this vaccine technology*.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimrev...d-to-their-development-but-he-is-not-their-in


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## Becky1951 (Dec 31, 2021)

What matters is that a member of the team creating the vaccine, Dr Malone, knows more about it then most do and if he has concerns about the vaccine people should listen and decide for themselves. Being censored is suspect.  Why isn't he allowed freedom of speech? Who doesn't want his opinions known?  Who chooses the fact checkers? Who pays them?


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## CarolfromTX (Dec 31, 2021)

Sometimes, conspiracies really do exist. Just sayin’.


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## chic (Jan 1, 2022)

Shero said:


> Chic,  you cannot hide from me. You have to try and do better next time! I always come up with the goods
> 
> The development of mRNA vaccines was a* collaborative *effort; Robert Malone contributed to their development, *but he is not their inventor.*
> 
> ...


I'm not hiding. I know Malone was one of a group of scientists who worked on mRNA tech and development.


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## chic (Jan 1, 2022)

CarolfromTX said:


> Sometimes, conspiracies really do exist. Just sayin’.


We're seeing it unfold before our eyes daily.


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## Pepper (Jan 1, 2022)

chic said:


> We're seeing it unfold before our eyes daily.


If you're able to see it it's not a conspiracy.


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## Judycat (Jan 1, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Do you think anarchy is inevitable at some point?


No, but a segment of our country seems be pushing for it. I live in rural PA where there are many anti-government religious types who believe Christ won't return without their help. All they want is to start Armageddon, then "The Lord" will take care of everything else. Nuts.


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## Alligatorob (Jan 1, 2022)

CarolfromTX said:


> Sometimes, conspiracies really do exist.


In this case I just don't see either side as organized enough to effectively conspirasize anything...


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## Pepper (Jan 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> In this case I just don't see either side as organized enough to effectively conspirasize anything...


Also, the remark "Sometimes, conspiracies really do exist" means absolutely nothing.


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## AnnieA (Jan 1, 2022)

@Don M.  -- On a board with a no politics rule, you're somehow a special exception, how?  It's like a guest lighting up a cigarette at the dinner table when the host maintains a no smoking environment.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 1, 2022)

Judycat said:


> No, but a segment of our country seems be pushing for it. I live in rural PA where there are many anti-government religious types who believe Christ won't return without their help. All they want is to start Armageddon, then "The Lord" will take care of everything else. Nuts.


The media is doing a good job of marginalizing certain segments of society, so I don't think you should worry about them. Also bear in mind that, while the USA is a democratic republic, money usually decides which way the wind blows, and nuts (generally) don't have access to a lot of that.


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## Judycat (Jan 1, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> The media is doing a good job of marginalizing certain segments of society, so I don't think you should worry about them. Also bear in mind that, while the USA is a democratic republic, money usually decides which way the wind blows, and nuts (generally) don't have access to a lot of that.


Respectfully, I can see you have no idea what I'm talking about.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 1, 2022)

Judycat said:


> Respectfully, I can tell you have no idea what I'm talking about.


And, with all due respect, I can tell you I do, but I was treading lightly.


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## Shero (Jan 1, 2022)

*Read how Dr Malone invented Anti Vaxxery!*

"With Dr Malone eagerly going to bed with quacks, antivaxxers and far-right white supremacists (like Steve Bannon), it is a bit reminiscent of the paranoid conspiracy theorist and COVID-19-denialist *Judy Mikovits*, who by being a former virologist is the proper scientific authority whom these people will accept. Incidentally also an article by Smut Clyde! "

https://forbetterscience.com/2021/10/04/how-dr-robert-malone-invented-antivaxxery/


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## rgp (Jan 5, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> What matters is that a member of the team creating the vaccine, Dr Malone, knows more about it then most do and if he has concerns about the vaccine people should listen and decide for themselves. Being censored is suspect.  Why isn't he allowed freedom of speech? Who doesn't want his opinions known?  Who chooses the fact checkers? Who pays them?



  Agree here ........ Is Malone talking himself up a-bit ? Maybe so but. Censoring the opinions of an, educated, informed , learned man is IMO just wrong. Let all hear what he has to say .......... then draw their own conclusion, and make an informed decision for themselves.

But of course the control freaks of the world would disagree.


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## Islander (Jan 5, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> @Don M.  -- On a board with a no politics rule, you're somehow a special exception, how?  It's like a guest lighting up a cigarette at the dinner table when the host maintains a no smoking environment.


I'm new to this forum, so I thought that I would ask for clarification to the "No Politics" rule that you mentioned before I blunder into forbidden topics.  I noticed the "No Politics" statement in a welcome message, but checking further there is no mention of it in the published "Terms and Rules" that I agreed to in my registration.  There is probably good reason for this since everything seems to be politicized these days.  Is discussion of COVID prohibited for example?  I would think that it would be a useful topic for seniors.  Facebook seems to be struggling with this and has yet to provide good guidance to people who post there.

Perhaps the best that can be done is a simple plea for civility.  The paragraph on behavior in the Terms and Rules may be the best that we can do:
"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content or your conduct."

Do you agree?


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## Alligatorob (Jan 5, 2022)

Islander said:


> I'm new to this forum, so I thought that I would ask for clarification to the "No Politics" rule that you mentioned before I blunder into forbidden topics.


Good question, I have wondered about this as well.  What is and isn't politics is unclear to me and it seems a lot of posts here are about things political.  Maybe it means not talking about individual politicians?  Like Biden or Trump?

The definition I found on the internet is:

noun

the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power.
the activities of governments concerning the political relations between countries.
Not a lot of help either.


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## AnnieA (Jan 5, 2022)

Islander said:


> I'm new to this forum, so I thought that I would ask for clarification to the "No Politics" rule that you mentioned before I blunder into forbidden topics.  I noticed the "No Politics" statement in a welcome message, but checking further there is no mention of it in the published "Terms and Rules" that I agreed to in my registration.  There is probably good reason for this since everything seems to be politicized these days.  Is discussion of COVID prohibited for example?  I would think that it would be a useful topic for seniors.  Facebook seems to be struggling with this and has yet to provide good guidance to people who post there.
> 
> Perhaps the best that can be done is a simple plea for civility.  The paragraph on behavior in the Terms and Rules may be the best that we can do:
> "You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content or your conduct."
> ...



The rule was in place when I joined the forum.  It's a good one. Politics were once allowed but cleaning up the messes--mostly created by Americans--caused so much work for Matrix (forum owner) that he put in place the restriction.

Apparently, the discussions before the rule were not civil and Matrix must have given up on the hope that they ever would be.   I completely understand his decision.  Even with the 'No Politics' rule, posters still try to sneak in cheap shots--such as the post removed earlier in this thread--and others are quick to take the bait in increasingly heated response.   Politics still cause enough housekeeping work for Matrix even with the rule that I don't think you'll convince him to overturn it with a "plea for civility."   I think he could allow politics if he disallowed US posters, but since I'm American and really like the board, I hope he'll keep it as it is.


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## ElCastor (Jan 5, 2022)

Islander said:


> I'm new to this forum, so I thought that I would ask for clarification to the "No Politics" rule that you mentioned before I blunder into forbidden topics.  I noticed the "No Politics" statement in a welcome message, but checking further there is no mention of it in the published "Terms and Rules" that I agreed to in my registration.  There is probably good reason for this since everything seems to be politicized these days.  Is discussion of COVID prohibited for example?  I would think that it would be a useful topic for seniors.  Facebook seems to be struggling with this and has yet to provide good guidance to people who post there.
> 
> Perhaps the best that can be done is a simple plea for civility.  The paragraph on behavior in the Terms and Rules may be the best that we can do:
> "You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content or your conduct."
> ...


Well hello and welcome aboard. (-8  I honestly don't know precisely how to answer that question, but you may have noticed that there are no posts critical or supportive of specific politicians, political parties, or political philosophies. You may be familiar with a UseNet retirement group that abandoned retirement issues to concentrate pretty much exclusively on endlessly bitter political banter. I suspect that the operators of this group are wisely intent on avoiding a similar fate for senior forums. May not be as exciting or appealing in some ways, but for many seniors it serves its purpose and at times can be quite interesting. I've enjoyed participating in a discussion of global birth rates, and their causes, and although I haven't seen or engaged in it I see from doing a search that there has been a discussion of CRT -- perhaps borderline political? Anyhow, this group is what it is.


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## Irwin (Jan 5, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Well hello and welcome aboard. (-8  I honestly don't know precisely how to answer that question, but you may have noticed that there are no posts critical or supportive of specific politicians, political parties, or political philosophies. You may be familiar with a UseNet retirement group that abandoned retirement issues to concentrate pretty much exclusively on endlessly bitter political banter. I suspect that the operators of this group are wisely intent on avoiding a similar fate for senior forums. May not be as exciting or appealing in some ways, but for many seniors it serves its purpose and at times can be quite interesting. I've enjoyed participating in a discussion of global birth rates, and their causes, and although I haven't seen or engaged in it I see from doing a search that there has been a discussion of CRT -- perhaps borderline political? Anyhow, this group is what it is.


If it's the one I started, that thread about CRT was about cathode-ray tubes and CRT monitors.


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## John cycling (Jan 5, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> As to Malone's claim that he is the "_inventor of the core mRNA vaccine technologies (including the idea of mRNA vaccines) and RNA transfection_" this is not clear.  Hundreds of people have worked on and contributed to the development of mRNA vaccines



Malone invented the mRNA technology.
Other people developed different vaccines based on the mRNA technology that he invented.
Developing a vaccine is not the same thing as inventing the technology that the mRNA vaccines are based on.

Here's an interview with Dr. Malone and Joe Rogan.  <--
It's long and I've only watched the first part so far, which covers his development of the mRNA techology.



Murrmurr said:


> I don't think anyone on here thinks the coronavirus is a hoax.



Perhaps a better question is whether a virus has ever been isolated <-- which is a requirement to prove a virus exists.
The answer is no, so make of that what you will.

Look at all the falsified death certificates, "with" covid when deaths were from other causes in all cases.
The same corporations who say there are viruses, are the same ones putting out the propaganda and fake news.
"With" covid does not mean caused by it but that's how they're counting it, and they're the ones who say there are viruses.

@Islander and @Murrmurr, you're both posting false information.
*Contaminated genetic material is not a virus, and host cells are not viruses.*  No virus has ever been isolated.
Watch the video that I posted.  Don't fall for the trap of posting information in the dark from propaganda and ignorance.


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## ElCastor (Jan 5, 2022)

Irwin said:


> If it's the one I started, that thread about CRT was about cathode-ray tubes and CRT monitors.


LOL! I'm glad to hear that!


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## Islander (Jan 6, 2022)

John cycling said:


> Perhaps a better question is whether a virus has ever been isolated <-- which is a requirement to prove a virus exists.
> The answer is no, so make of that what you will.


Not only has the COVID-19 virus been isolated, but the variants are also isolated and identified.


John cycling said:


> Look at all the falsified death certificates, "with" covid when deaths were from other causes in all cases.
> The same corporations who say there are viruses, are the same ones putting out the propaganda and fake news.
> "With" covid does not mean caused by it but that's how they're counting it, and they're the ones who say there are viruses.


It is not unusual for people infected with respiratory diseases to die from other diseases, pneumonia (the old man's friend) is a common secondary infection.  If you recall, there were early 2020 controversies over the cause of death listed on death certificates not listing COVID-19 as a cause and consequently an under-counting of COVID-19 as a cause of death.  If there had not been a COVID-19 infection, the death would not have occurred.  We are now doing a much more rigorous and accurate accounting.
Here are good discussions on this topic from 2020:  https://khn.org/news/how-covid-death-counts-become-the-stuff-of-conspiracy-theories/ and https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/about-30-covid-deaths-may-not-be-classified-such


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## Murrmurr (Jan 6, 2022)

John cycling said:


> Perhaps a better question is whether a virus has ever been isolated <-- which is a requirement to prove a virus exists.
> The answer is no, so make of that what you will.


Not only was SARS CoV2 isolated early in 2020, it's gnomes were studied. And last year each of it's spike proteins were studied, and then it's "sugar tricks" were observed (it uses our own sugars to hold our cell's ACE receptors open so it can enter the cells). Every country with the technology to do so has broken the virus down and studied it, and nearly every one has shared their findings.


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## ElCastor (Jan 6, 2022)

Islander said:


> Not only has the COVID-19 virus been isolated, but the variants are also isolated and identified.
> 
> It is not unusual for people infected with respiratory diseases to die from other diseases, pneumonia (the old man's friend) is a common secondary infection.  If you recall, there were early 2020 controversies over the cause of death listed on death certificates not listing COVID-19 as a cause and consequently an under-counting of COVID-19 as a cause of death.  If there had not been a COVID-19 infection, the death would not have occurred.  We are now doing a much more rigorous and accurate accounting.
> Here are good discussions on this topic from 2020:  https://khn.org/news/how-covid-death-counts-become-the-stuff-of-conspiracy-theories/ and https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/about-30-covid-deaths-may-not-be-classified-such


Whatever this thing is, it is very real. The wife and I are fully vaccinated and boosted, and yet I am convinced that we both contracted the Omacron variant at a Christmas party.  One of the attendees (the transmitter?) described her condition as a "cold". Well if it was a "cold", it is the Cold From Hell. I coughed my way out of bed last night at 3am and was up for two hours blowing my nose and spewing mucus. This, after I had convinced myself that I had passed the peak and was getting well. I am a healthy individual. I haven't been this sick in years. COVID seems very real to me, and had we not been vaccinated I'm sure it would be much worse, perhaps fatal.


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## Chris P Bacon (Jan 6, 2022)

Dead is dead and one stays dead forever no matter what’s listed as the cause of death.
If Mother Nature doesn’t get you, Father Time will. It seems as if negativity might be the 
death of positivity if some of these comments are to be interpreted as written. Life, no one
gets out alive! We can all argue forever after we’re dead. We’ll be in that state so much 
longer than we will be alive. No one is going to budge so why not take Monty Python’s
advice and always look on the bright side of life! Beat it if you will but the Covid horse
looks dead to me. You don’t have to be happy but I don’t see the benefit to not be.


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## dseag2 (Jan 6, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Whatever this thing is, it is very real. The wife and I are fully vaccinated and boosted, and yet I am convinced that we both contracted the Omacron variant at a Christmas party.  One of the attendees (the transmitter?) described her condition as a "cold". Well if it was a "cold", it is the Cold From Hell. I coughed my way out of bed last night at 3am and was up for two hours blowing my nose and spewing mucus. This, after I had convinced myself that I had passed the peak and was getting well. I am a healthy individual. I haven't been this sick in years. COVID seems very real to me, and had we not been vaccinated I'm sure it would be much worse, perhaps fatal.


Yes, I'm sure I caught Covid in February 2020, long before I was vaccinated.  The coughing and phlegm was awful and took months to go away.  I feel for you.


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## Devi (Jan 6, 2022)

My husband and I caught it just before they named it "Covid-19". I remember being pretty tired and having lots of phlegm. Our doctor said we had a "virus that presents like a cold" and told us to take some over-the-counter tablets for the phlegm (Mucinex?) and to just tough it out.

I had it for about three weeks, and husband for three months because he was in repeated contact with the person who gave it to him (car mechanic).


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