# Jayland Walker Killed by at Least 60 Bullets Fired By Police



## Ruthanne (Jul 4, 2022)

News article:   Jayland Walker Story 

Jayland Walker was gunnned down by 8 police officers and at least 60 to 90 bullets were fired  They said he fired a shot out of his car before fleeing his car running while police pursued him.  He was initially stopped for a traffic incident.

The family wants answers.  Akron, Ohio is under curfew after a night of unlawfulness.  There has been an outpouring of support for the family and the police are being condemned for what they did.

This reminds me of another story of a black couple in Cleveland who were shot at over 137 times.  That story follows below.

Story:
News Story From Cleveland 


This just seems like overkill for one thing and then why do  they have to kill people anyway when they disobey the law?  I'm sure other things could have been done besides this.


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## dseag2 (Jul 4, 2022)

I absolutely believe the police overreacted in this case.  60 to 90 bullets?  Supposedly, they tried tasers and they didn't work.

However, I do have to ask myself why he led them on a car chase, then exited the vehicle and ran.  None of us can really know what was going through his head at the time.  Perhaps he was thinking of some of the black men that have been indiscriminately killed by the police for fairly minor offenses.  I would imagine if I were a black man I would have the George Floyd story going through my head any time I was stopped by the police.  I guess we will find out more as the story plays out.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 4, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I absolutely believe the police overreacted in this case.  60 to 90 bullets?  Supposedly, they tried tasers and they didn't work.
> 
> However, I do have to ask myself why he led them on a car chase, then exited the vehicle and ran.  None of us can really know what was going through his head at the time.  Perhaps he was thinking of some of the black men that have been indiscriminately killed by the police for fairly minor offenses.  I would imagine if I were a black man I would have the George Floyd story going through my head any time I was stopped by the police.  I guess we will find out more as the story plays out.


Yes, more to come.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 4, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I absolutely believe the police overreacted in this case.  60 to 90 bullets?  Supposedly, they tried tasers and they didn't work.
> 
> However, I do have to ask myself why he led them on a car chase, then exited the vehicle and ran.  None of us can really know what was going through his head at the time.  Perhaps he was thinking of some of the black men that have been indiscriminately killed by the police for fairly minor offenses.  I would imagine *if I were a black man I would have the George Floyd story going through my head any time I was stopped by the police.*  I guess we will find out more as the story plays out.


Therefore, the _last_ thing I'd do is grab my gun and shoot at a policeman.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 4, 2022)

Thought I saw one report where this was the second night they tried to catch this guy. He also fired at officers during the final chase from his car. On foot apparently not. But he still had his mask and gloves on. Head movement could indicate what he might do but how much would a mask or hood affect that. Gloves at night seem like a gun. Yes 60 rounds is a lot but one officer fires the rest will automatically fire assuming there is a threat. 

There will be new pursuit and when to fire policies coming down the pike


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## Blessed (Jul 4, 2022)

I must admit I have no idea who you are talking about.  Sometimes ignorance is the best protection. I have heard enough of bad things for awhile.


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## ohioboy (Jul 5, 2022)

Saw that on the news. Let us assume arguendo that deadly force was justified as a premise. If in the minds of the police if Jayland was permitted to escape, he would pose a threat of serious bodily harm or death to others, what do the police think pumping 60+ rounds into an open area is going to do? That posed a FAR greater danger to the public and to the police themselves! Expect a Justice Dept. review and a Major 1983 lawsuit seeking millions. Of course the young man is dead, the Family is devasted, prayers for them! What a horrible sick feeling!


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 5, 2022)

This is what I posted in the thread about the Highland Park shooter.
And I must point out that yet again...another White boy gets *arrested and will live to stand trial. *But a young, unarmed Black man who was running away from cops after a car chase was shot by 8 officers, at least 60 times! Had he killed anyone? NO! Had he shot anyone? NO! Makes me sick!! 

I have a Black son, 4 Black grandsons and several more step-sons and step-grandsons (well one of those looks White). This is something that hurts me, angers me, concerns me and yes, frightens me! It could happen to my "babies"....none of whom are criminals, because it's all too common in this country.  I know it won't bring Jayland back and nothing takes the place of your child but I hope the family sues the bazoobas out of the city and wins the case.


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## Patricia (Jul 5, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> This is what I posted in the thread about the Highland Park shooter.
> And I must point out that yet again...another White boy gets *arrested and will live to stand trial. *But a young, unarmed Black man who was running away from cops after a car chase was shot by 8 officers, at least 60 times! Had he killed anyone? NO! Had he shot anyone? NO! Makes me sick!!
> 
> I have a Black son, 4 Black grandsons and several more step-sons and step-grandsons (well one of those looks White). This is something that hurts me, angers me, concerns me and yes, frightens me! It could happen to my "babies"....none of whom are criminals, because it's all too common in this country.  I know it won't bring Jayland back and nothing takes the place of your child but I hope the family sues the bazoobas out of the city and wins the case.


Very depressing!


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## hollydolly (Jul 5, 2022)

The headline says Jayland Walker.. makes it look like  someone who was walking in a place called Jayland...  Ruthanne, your link to Buzzfeed is from 2012 and doesn't seem related to the headline..


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## Ruthanne (Jul 5, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> The headline says Jayland Walker.. makes it look like  someone who was walking in a place called Jayland...  Ruthanne, your link to Buzzfeed is from 2012 and doesn't seem related to the headline..


I posted 2 links I believe.  One or the first one at the top is the current story.  The second link is a story I thought to be similar and yes, it was years ago.  I'm going to edit my OP now to make it more comprehendible.


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## Patricia (Jul 5, 2022)

Blessed said:


> I must admit I have no idea who you are talking about.  Sometimes ignorance is the best protection. I have heard enough of bad things for awhile.


Yes, we all need some good news.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 5, 2022)

Patricia said:


> Yes, we all need some good news.


I agree and feel free to post some good news.


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## Buckeye (Jul 5, 2022)

What I can't understand is the series of bad decisions this young man made, which were almost guaranteed to end in his death.  Why would he try to flee a traffic stop?  Why did he have a loaded gun in his car?  Why did he shoot at the police? Why did he put on a ski mask (or whatever it was) and try to flee on foot?  Why didn't he just stop running?

My condolences to his family.


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## Patricia (Jul 5, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> I agree and feel free to post some good news.


For now, the weather is a little cooler than it was for a while, and that helps.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 5, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> What I can't understand is the series of bad decisions this young man made, which were almost guaranteed to end his death.  Why would he try to flee a traffic stop?  Why did he have a loaded gun in his car?  Why did he shoot at the police? Why did he put on a ski mask (or whatever it was) and try to flee on foot?  Why didn't he just stop running?
> 
> My condolences to his family.


Those sure are thought provoking questions.  I'm sure more will be learned and discussed regarding the entire thing or series of events..


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## rgp (Jul 5, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> What I can't understand is the series of bad decisions this young man made, which were almost guaranteed to end in his death.  Why would he try to flee a traffic stop?  Why did he have a loaded gun in his car?  Why did he shoot at the police? Why did he put on a ski mask (or whatever it was) and try to flee on foot?  Why didn't he just stop running?
> 
> My condolences to his family.



 I agree here.


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## Knight (Jul 5, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> This is what I posted in the thread about the Highland Park shooter.
> And I must point out that yet again...another White boy gets *arrested and will live to stand trial. *But a young, unarmed Black man who was running away from cops after a car chase was shot by 8 officers, at least 60 times! Had he killed anyone? NO! Had he shot anyone? NO! Makes me sick!!
> 
> I have a Black son, 4 Black grandsons and several more step-sons and step-grandsons (well one of those looks White). This is something that hurts me, angers me, concerns me and yes, frightens me! It could happen to my "babies"....none of whom are criminals, because it's all too common in this country.  I know it won't bring Jayland back and nothing takes the place of your child but I hope the family sues the bazoobas out of the city and wins the case.


Is there a difference between running away & shooting at police & being arrested as a suspect? The article describes Walker as shooting at police while fleeing in his car & what appears to Walker reaching for a gun as he is running away after exiting his car. 

No doubt 60 bullets is way to much and the response to a traffic stop seems unusual so maybe waiting for more facts to be produced would be in the best interest.

My wife is a woman of color ,  a black daughter in law & black grandson so I understand the concern for their welfare. I also understand that they don't engage in criminal activity to cause police to approach them.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 5, 2022)

I don't know if it's cultural thing or what-but black guys run from the cops. Whites seem to surrender???? I've seen way too many reality cop shows to know a black guy will try to run from the cops, and make a mad dash to his 'hood', because he knows the area and thinks he can hide from the cops. Of course, the cops are hell bent in not letting the black guy escape. It's almost a video game.


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## rgp (Jul 5, 2022)

Knight said:


> Is there a difference between running away & shooting at police & being arrested as a suspect? The article describes Walker as shooting at police while fleeing in his car & what appears to Walker reaching for a gun as he is running away after exiting his car.
> 
> No doubt 60 bullets is way to much and the response to a traffic stop seems unusual so maybe waiting for more facts to be produced would be in the best interest.
> 
> My wife is a woman of color ,  a black daughter in law & black grandson so I understand the concern for their welfare. I also understand that they don't engage in criminal activity to cause police to approach them.




 "No doubt 60 bullets is way to much and the response to a traffic stop seems unusual so maybe waiting for more facts to be produced would be in the best interest."

 I agree here but ....... Why is 60 too many ? We do not know which one killed him. It might have been #1 or #60 . I think adrenaline kicks in [on part of the police] and that IMO accounts for some of the "overkill" ?


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## Knight (Jul 5, 2022)

rgp said:


> "No doubt 60 bullets is way to much and the response to a traffic stop seems unusual so maybe waiting for more facts to be produced would be in the best interest."
> 
> I agree here but ....... Why is 60 too many ? We do not know which one killed him. It might have been #1 or #60 . I think adrenaline kicks in [on part of the police] and that IMO accounts for some of the "overkill" ?


I didn't read that 60 bullets killed him I read 60 were fired. Why it took 60 rounds when the body cams show close proximity IMO should be investigated. Add to that his back was to the officers.

For a traffic stop and possibly being shot at during the pursuit & the suspected use of a gun due to his actions. The use of deadly force sounds reasonable  if he had actually turned and fired at them. Otherwise a foot chase by any one of the 8 police officers physically fit enough to chase him would make more sense to me.  Even if only one was capable the other 7 could be examining the car for clues to his identity if they didn't already have that info.  IMO this is a gross escalation of a situation that ended in death rather than a fine & whatever jail time might be assessed for evading police or maybe having a gun without a permit.

I'll stick by my original post. More facts are needed & an in depth investigation by an outside agency would be my preference.


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## SeniorBen (Jul 5, 2022)

The police were chasing someone they believed, with good reason, to be armed and dangerous since he had already taken a shot at them. When he stopped running, turned, and took an aggressive stance towards the police, they no doubt believed he was about to open fire on them, so they shot him, justifiably. It's kind of irrelevant how many bullets they fired at that point since they probably all opened fire at the same time.


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## Knight (Jul 5, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> The police were chasing someone they believed, with good reason, to be armed and dangerous since he had already taken a shot at them. When he stopped running, turned, and took an aggressive stance towards the police, they no doubt believed he was about to open fire on them, so they shot him, justifiably. It's kind of irrelevant how many bullets they fired at that point since they probably all opened fire at the same time.


I missed the part in the article where he shot at the police.. I read it as they saw a flash & think he shot at them & thought they heard a gun shot. 

I think there is a difference between verifying for a fact that he shot at the police & they think he shot at them.  More facts like was the gun they found in the car fired & missing rounds or was it a flash due to a reflection in the drivers side mirror. 

I think watching police chases has given me enough insight to question how many chase cars were involved. Were there 4 cars with two officers each or 8 cars with one officer in each? How did they all arrive in time to get out & fire 60 rounds?  Did they have to trigger off rounds or did they have automatics that could rapid fire? 

So many unknowns that is why I try not to  rush to judgement on any article that provides just enough info to sell.


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## Tish (Jul 5, 2022)

What on Earth? My God!


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## rgp (Jul 5, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> The police were chasing someone they believed, with good reason, to be armed and dangerous since he had already taken a shot at them. When he stopped running, turned, and took an aggressive stance towards the police, they no doubt believed he was about to open fire on them, so they shot him, justifiably. It's kind of irrelevant how many bullets they fired at that point since they probably all opened fire at the same time.



 I agree here !


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## Jeni (Jul 5, 2022)

If anyone has ever watched the old show COPS or other shows like that ...  most bad outcomes whether a taser is used or shots fired etc is when a person often for small reasons decides to run / resist or fight ..... 
 example: young men with suspended license for example ends up running and assaulting an officer a small traffic ticket now can blow up to actual jail time


a person regardless of color or sex ................ running away from a simple traffic stop ... makes cops think .... 
what else has this person done ?"
or reaching for anything in car on person etc escalates the issue 1000% percent....... 
I think the amount of shots and bullets is over done here but these decisions are made in the heat of the moment with adrenaline pumping and frankly no officer is going to hesitate and give the benefit of doubt ..when they WANT to go home at end of shift....


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## Knight (Jul 5, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> The police were chasing someone they believed, with good reason, to be armed and dangerous since he had already taken a shot at them. When he stopped running, turned, and took an aggressive stance towards the police, they no doubt believed he was about to open fire on them, so they shot him, justifiably. It's kind of irrelevant how many bullets they fired at that point since they probably all opened fire at the same time.


From this article the op posted
https://abc7chicago.com/jayland-walker-ohio-akron-police/12014790/



Following the news conference, Bobby DiCello, an attorney for Walker's family, said the key fact of the case, which Mylett confirmed, is that Walker was unarmed when he was killed.

Multiple officers are seen in the footage running after Walker, who appeared to look over his shoulder as officers fired their weapons at him.

What the police chief saw

Mylett said he has watched the video at least 40 times and said there are still photos showing Walker appear to reach for his waistband, turn toward officer and move an arm forward.


What the lawyer for the family saw.
DiCello said he saw no evidence in the video he reviewed of Walker posing a threat to the officers.

"Just sprinting away from these men, he is shot as he starts to turn and look over his shoulder," DiCello said.

Both saw Walker with his back to the police that were shooting at him. 

Interesting how people can read the same article & come up with a different understanding of what they read. 

Nothing in the article proves positively that a shot was fired from Walkers vehicle. Claiming they saw a flash & think they heard a shot still has to be verified.


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## SeniorBen (Jul 5, 2022)

Knight said:


> From this article the op posted
> https://abc7chicago.com/jayland-walker-ohio-akron-police/12014790/
> 
> 
> ...


What the lawyer for the family saw: $$$$$$$$

He stands to make big money if he wins his lawsuit.


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## mrstime (Jul 5, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I absolutely believe the police overreacted in this case.  60 to 90 bullets?  Supposedly, they tried tasers and they didn't work.
> 
> However, I do have to ask myself why he led them on a car chase, then exited the vehicle and ran.  None of us can really know what was going through his head at the time.  Perhaps he was thinking of some of the black men that have been indiscriminately killed by the police for fairly minor offenses.  I would imagine if I were a black man I would have the George Floyd story going through my head any time I was stopped by the police.  I guess we will find out more as the story plays out.


I assume these young black men are terrified of police. What then do they do when that scared? Run, try to get away.


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## MarciKS (Jul 6, 2022)

Maybe if the police didn't give them a reason to fear for their lives maybe they could just surrender. But after all the men of color (don't give me shit about the phrasing because I'm not up on what is politically correct) that have died to police the last few yrs you can't really blame them. They should have just as much rights to surrender without fear as any "whitey" as the fuzzybuddy so delicately put it. Nobody should have to run from police as a lifesaving mechanism.


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## Knight (Jul 6, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> What the lawyer for the family saw: $$$$$$$$
> 
> He stands to make big money if he wins his lawsuit.


That's why lawyers take cases like this.  I have to admit while those officers were not accurate when trying to shoot Walker they at least have superior hearing.
Quote from article
"A second body-camera video recorded officers radioing that they heard at least one shot being fired from Walker's car."

OR
Maybe police chases there are different than other places. No sirens   Maybe they don't use sirens due to the noise that makes hearing really difficult.


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## rgp (Jul 6, 2022)

Knight said:


> I didn't read that 60 bullets killed him I read 60 were fired. Why it took 60 rounds when the body cams show close proximity IMO should be investigated. Add to that his back was to the officers.
> 
> For a traffic stop and possibly being shot at during the pursuit & the suspected use of a gun due to his actions. The use of deadly force sounds reasonable  if he had actually turned and fired at them. Otherwise a foot chase by any one of the 8 police officers physically fit enough to chase him would make more sense to me.  Even if only one was capable the other 7 could be examining the car for clues to his identity if they didn't already have that info.  IMO this is a gross escalation of a situation that ended in death rather than a fine & whatever jail time might be assessed for evading police or maybe having a gun without a permit.
> 
> I'll stick by my original post. More facts are needed & an in depth investigation by an outside agency would be my preference.



 You didn't read what i said ..... I never said 60 bullets killed him..... The news says 60 rounds were fired , and apparently hit his body [otherwise] how would they know the count ? 

 What I said was ....... it might have been the first round or the last round #1 or #60 that killed him. And again, it may seem like overkill ? But I believe that when someone is shooting at _*you *_.... adrenaline kicks in and that IOM could lead to , [basically] emptying your weapon. Then consider multiple officers doing the same thing ...... and there's your round count . As far as i know, they [the police] in that situation will not stop shooting until the suspect is down.

 Loosely related ........ how many rounds did Bonnie & Clyde catch ?


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## rgp (Jul 6, 2022)

MarciKS said:


> Maybe if the police didn't give them a reason to fear for their lives maybe they could just surrender. But after all the men of color (don't give me shit about the phrasing because I'm not up on what is politically correct) that have died to police the last few yrs you can't really blame them. They should have just as much rights to surrender without fear as any "whitey" as the fuzzybuddy so delicately put it. Nobody should have to run from police as a lifesaving mechanism.



 He didn't run as a life saving mechanism .......... He ran after _*shooting at them*_ because he wanted to escape , for reasons of his initial crime.

The single best mechanism to avoid being shot by the police is simply to just behave ...... commit no crime !


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## Knight (Jul 6, 2022)

rgp said:


> You didn't read what i said ..... I never said 60 bullets killed him..... The news says 60 rounds were fired , and apparently hit his body [otherwise] how would they know the count ?
> 
> What I said was ....... it might have been the first round or the last round #1 or #60 that killed him. And again, it may seem like overkill ? But I believe that when someone is shooting at _*you *_.... adrenaline kicks in and that IOM could lead to , [basically] emptying your weapon. Then consider multiple officers doing the same thing ...... and there's your round count . As far as i know, they [the police] in that situation will not stop shooting until the suspect is down.
> 
> Loosely related ........ how many rounds did Bonnie & Clyde catch ?


Police have a bullet count so by checking the amount left in their allotted amount, simple math can determine how many bullets were fired.

I'm kind of stubborn when it comes to reading and explaining what I read. I didn't read where Walker was shooting at police. I read where they think they saw a flash as he was being chased. Then I read where he was running away with his back towards the police chasing him. He turned slightly & police "thought" he was reaching for a gun. Big difference between actually turning to face police, pulling out a gun and firing at police.

They did find a gun in his car. But nothing about did he have it legally or was it fired in the time frame of the chase.


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## rgp (Jul 6, 2022)

mrstime said:


> I assume these young black men are terrified of police. What then do they do when that scared? Run, try to get away.



 They commited a crime they are terrfied of incarceration . 

  In light of all these recent stories ....... The smart black guy would behave ..... but no they think they can get away with it [what-ever their crime] And in their arrogance they think they should be able to.

The second smart black guy if suspected and pulled over would just sit there with his hands on top the steering wheel , like we're all instructed to.

Running from / fighting the police is the dumbest thing anyone can do ......when will they learn.


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## rgp (Jul 6, 2022)

Knight said:


> Police have a bullet count so by checking the amount left in their allotted amount, simple math can determine how many bullets were fired.
> 
> I'm kind of stubborn when it comes to reading and explaining what I read. I didn't read where Walker was shooting at police. I read where they think they saw a flash as he was being chased. Then I read where he was running away with his back towards the police chasing him. He turned slightly & police "thought" he was reaching for a gun.



He shot at them from the car . As I heard it , no bullet count was considered ....... bullet holes were. But as already said here ....... let's wait for all the information to come out.

But I will stand by the police ..... they are stopping criminals ..... and criminals prey on _*us.*_


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## Knight (Jul 6, 2022)

rgp said:


> They commited a crime they are terrfied of incarceration .
> 
> In light of all these recent stories ....... The smart black guy would behave ..... but no they think they can get away with it [what-ever their crime] And in their arrogance they think they should be able to.
> 
> ...


As far as the article shows his crime was having a defect in his car that caused a police officer to pull him over. A complete investigation will take place so maybe some unanswered question will be answered.


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## rgp (Jul 6, 2022)

Knight said:


> As far as the article shows his crime was having a defect in his car that caused a police officer to pull him over. A complete investigation will take place so maybe some unanswered question will be answered.



 Let us hope ...... 

 But if the current information is even close to accurate ...... why would a person shoot at the police [if he did] and in the first place run for a vehicle infraction ? And please don't tell me it is fear of police ......... That is simply ignorant in light of what is happening today / the news of today.


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## mrstime (Jul 6, 2022)

rgp said:


> They commited a crime they are terrfied of incarceration .
> 
> In light of all these recent stories ....... The smart black guy would behave ..... but no they think they can get away with it [what-ever their crime] And in their arrogance they think they should be able to.
> 
> ...


Funny there was a white guy do the same thing but he is alive today.


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## rgp (Jul 6, 2022)

mrstime said:


> Funny there was a white guy do the same thing but he is alive today.



 Well ...... I wasn't there and neither were you , as such we do not know the details of each incident.


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## Knight (Jul 6, 2022)

rgp said:


> Let us hope ......
> 
> But if the current information is even close to accurate ...... why would a person shoot at the police [if he did] and in the first place run for a vehicle infraction ? And please don't tell me it is fear of police ......... That is simply ignorant in light of what is happening today / the news of today.


The article & video really doesn't tell us much. Things like how did they hear a shot if sirens were blasting? Was the drivers window up or down? That little detail wasn't clear in the video.  Was Walker tested for gun powder residue right away? Was the door sill tested  for powder right away?  Who did they chase that exited from the passenger side of the car? If it was Walker how did he manage to change sides so quickly since the patrol cars were right behind him? Were any shots to his front? Out of the 60 rounds fired how many actual shots did he have ? 
We can speculate all day about why he took off causing the chase. I think both you & I expect the police to do everything in their power to create a safe environment. We also expect accountability no matter how it ends up for all those involved. We might never find out what the decision is or what  factual proof is presented.


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## rgp (Jul 6, 2022)

Knight said:


> The article & video really doesn't tell us much. Things like how did they hear a shot if sirens were blasting? Was the drivers window up or down? That little detail wasn't clear in the video.  Was Walker tested for gun powder residue right away? Was the door sill tested  for powder right away?  Who did they chase that exited from the passenger side of the car? If it was Walker how did he manage to change sides so quickly since the patrol cars were right behind him? Were any shots to his front? Out of the 60 rounds fired how many actual shots did he have ?
> We can speculate all day about why he took off causing the chase. I think both you & I expect the police to do everything in their power to create a safe environment. We also expect accountability no matter how it ends up for all those involved. We might never find out what the decision is or what  factual proof is presented.




  "I think both you & I expect the police to do everything in their power to create a safe environment."

Indeed, and if shooting a suspect criminal dead is how they do it ?  Because [he] refuses to surrender to arrest. I really do not care.

 Remember something ....... these people [criminals] prey on us ....


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## Ruthanne (Jul 6, 2022)

The Attorney General is handling the investigation.  This is Akron police first independent investigation.

President Biden also said the Justice Department is investigating.


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## dseag2 (Jul 6, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> What the lawyer for the family saw: $$$$$$$$
> 
> He stands to make big money if he wins his lawsuit.


I'm surprised Ben Crump didn't insert himself immediately.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 6, 2022)

Knight said:


> The article & video really doesn't tell us much. Things like how did they hear a shot if sirens were blasting? Was the drivers window up or down? That little detail wasn't clear in the video.  Was Walker tested for gun powder residue right away? Was the door sill tested  for powder right away?  Who did they chase that exited from the passenger side of the car? If it was Walker how did he manage to change sides so quickly since the patrol cars were right behind him? Were any shots to his front? Out of the 60 rounds fired how many actual shots did he have ?
> We can speculate all day about why he took off causing the chase. I think both you & I expect the police to do everything in their power to create a safe environment. We also expect accountability no matter how it ends up for all those involved. We might never find out what the decision is or what  factual proof is presented.


The last news I saw stated that the medical examiner reported that Jayland had 60 gunshot wounds and it was reported that as many as 90 shots may have been fired.


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## Knight (Jul 7, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> The last news I saw stated that the medical examiner reported that Jayland had 60 gunshot wounds and it was reported that as many as 90 shots may have been fired.


I don't know what kind of gun that police department uses so for general purposes. I'll guess that a Glock with 15 rounds was that kind. 8x15 = 120. That 90 is only 30 rounds short of the 120.  60 rounds would mean that about 1/2 of the rounds per gun per officer hit Walker. 

Then as I understand it they would have to pull the trigger to fire each round. I don't care what kind of crime Walker "might" have done. This man was a human being that in NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION WAS GUNNED DOWN.

I'm glad there will be an independent investigation. The Akron police chief already stated that fearing for their lives was the justification for the action taken. As I think about it 8 officers shooting at Walker while he is running away, fear him?  

One word

BULLSHIT


----------



## Pepper (Jul 7, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I'm surprised Ben Crump didn't insert himself immediately.


I'm surprised at you making such a flip comment.  Insert himself?  People, people in big trouble HIRE him.  He doesn't insert himself.


----------



## Buckeye (Jul 7, 2022)

Again, I think there's more to the back story than we are being told.  Was is really a routine traffic stop for a missing brake light, etc, or was there another reason he was being stopped?  Why was young Mr. Walker so threatened by the traffic stop? Lot's of unanswered questions.

I think the LEOs all did what the thought they had to do in the few seconds they had to act/react.  But I also mourn for Jayland Walker.


----------



## dseag2 (Jul 7, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I'm surprised at you making such a flip comment.  Insert himself?  People, people in big trouble HIRE him.  He doesn't insert himself.


I agree that he has done lots of good for the black community, but there are times when he inserts himself.  Here is an example.

https://www.billboard.com/business/...oworld-case-civil-rights-attorney-1235049161/


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2022)

rgp said:


> "I think both you & I expect the police to do everything in their power to create a safe environment."
> 
> Indeed, and if shooting a suspect criminal dead is how they do it ?  Because [he] refuses to surrender to arrest. I really do not care.
> 
> Remember something ....... these people [criminals] prey on us ....


Everyone has rights, too.  He did not deserve what he got no matter how insensitive your comment.  Criminals deserve a trial and not to be gunned down by 8 cops.  It could have been you too!  Criminal seems to me to be a word you use to do anything to a suspect.  I'm sure Jayland had a lot of good qualities like we all do.  He acted wrong but what the police did still is wrong in my book!


----------



## rgp (Jul 8, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> Everyone has rights, too.  He did not deserve what he got no matter how insensitive your comment.  Criminals deserve a trial and not to be gunned down by 8 cops.  It could have been you too!  Criminal seems to me to be a word you use to do anything to a suspect.  I'm sure Jayland had a lot of good qualities like we all do.  He acted wrong but what the police did still is wrong in my book!



 Well you are wrong because ....... it would never be me as I behave , and if I were mistakenly accused of a crime, I would surrender to arrest immediately . I doubt this man had any "good" qualities , remember criminals prey on the rest of us . The police IMO did a good job.


----------



## ohioboy (Jul 8, 2022)

rgp said:


> The police IMO did a good job.


As someone who supported Derek Chauvin, that will not surprise anyone!


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 12, 2022)

Jayland's funeral is tomorrow Wednesday.  There have been lots of peaceful protesting, and some of the police and government in Akron have gotten death threats to them and their families.  There has been a curfew in that city from 11 PM to 5 am.


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## ohioboy (Jul 12, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> Jayland's funeral is tomorrow Wednesday.  There have been lots of peaceful protesting, and some of the police and government in Akron have gotten death threats to them and their families.  There has been a curfew in that city from 11 PM to 5 am.


I read it will be held at the Civic theatre! That is where the world has headed for a long time, criminal death threats to the other side!


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## win231 (Jul 12, 2022)

Police fired 60 bullets to kill one person?
Must be due to an ammo shortage.


----------



## Pepper (Jul 12, 2022)

win231 said:


> Police fired 60 bullets to kill one person?
> Must be due to an ammo shortage.


When Amadou Diallo was killed by NYC police in a hail of 41 bullets, I remember it was said the cops were trained to empty their guns.  This was 1999.


----------



## win231 (Jul 12, 2022)

Pepper said:


> When Amadou Diallo was killed by NYC police in a hail of 41 bullets, I remember it was said the cops were trained to empty their guns.  This was 1999.


The real reason:  When police are not justified in using deadly force & they do it anyway, they want to make sure their victim doesn't survive to testify against them at the hearing.  A victim evokes more sympathy from jurors.
That only leaves witnesses' accounts - which are easier to refute during cross examination.


----------



## HarryHawk (Jul 13, 2022)

Based on the optics, I understand that folks find the outcome objectionable.  I'm just not sure I understand the exact objection.

Is it 

that the individual was shot, or that he was shot 60 times? 

that the police shot at all, or they shot to kill?

that multiple police fired shots?

that multiple shots were fired by individuals?

If the Uvalde school shooter was found to have been shot 60 times when the SWAT team finally intervened, would that be objectionable?

Personally speaking, if I'm on the receiving end, anything after the first fatal shot doesn't really matter.  

How would you like to see similar situations handled in the future?


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 13, 2022)

Yes to your first  few questions but you cannot compare Jayland Walker to the Uvalde shooter who killed 21 people.  Jayland did not hurt anyone in this instance.  He was overkilled which is more adding insult to injury.  Intellectualize it all you want until you see and feel what really happened.


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 13, 2022)

rgp said:


> Well you are wrong because ....... it would never be me as I behave , and if I were mistakenly accused of a crime, I would surrender to arrest immediately . I doubt this man had any "good" qualities , remember criminals prey on the rest of us . The police IMO did a good job.


Regardless, everyone has good qualities no matter what you mean.  The police only did a good job to those who think like police.  In terms of ethics and morality they are sadly mistaken.  Noone deserves to be treated that way.   What if you broke the law?  Would you like to be handled that way in terms of your rights?  He deserved to be treated fairly.  Everyone deserves a chance.


----------



## HarryHawk (Jul 13, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> Yes to your first  few questions but you cannot compare Jayland Walker to the Uvalde shooter who killed 21 people.  Jayland did not hurt anyone in this instance.  He was overkilled which is more adding insult to injury.  Intellectualize it all you want until you see and feel what really happened.


I wasn't trying to equate the two, I was asking if it was ever permissible to have shot a shooter an excessive number of times?

When you say yes to the others, just so I understand the police should not have shot even though they were previously fired upon.  Should they have waited to see if additional shots would be coming their way?

I'm am just trying to understand various individual's perspective.  It seems like the story always stresses the 60 shots, does it make a difference if only one fatal shot had been fired?  Overreacted has been used previously regard the number of rounds, what would be acceptable with regards to multiple officers engaging a individual thought to be armed and dangerous?

My perspective is if the police have a reasonable expectation that their life or the life of someone else is endangered (i.e. weapon being brandished or previous fired), they should be allowed to fire their weapon, and that they should never fire their weapon unless they are firing with the intent to kill the intended target.


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 13, 2022)

HarryHawk said:


> I wasn't trying to equate the two, I was asking if it was ever permissible to have shot a shooter an excessive number of times?
> 
> When you say yes to the others, just so I understand the police should not have shot even though they were previously fired upon.  Should they have waited to see if additional shots would be coming their way?
> 
> ...


A shot was thought to have come out of Jayland's car door but they weren't very sure about that.  I still think the police could of handled this better, like not have to kill.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jul 13, 2022)

Knight said:


> I don't know what kind of gun that police department uses so for general purposes. I'll guess that a Glock with 15 rounds was that kind. 8x15 = 120. That 90 is only 30 rounds short of the 120.  60 rounds would mean that about 1/2 of the rounds per gun per officer hit Walker.
> 
> Then as I understand it they would have to pull the trigger to fire each round. I don't care what kind of crime Walker "might" have done. This man was a human being that in NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION WAS GUNNED DOWN.
> 
> ...


You're reply speaks to me Knight!! We had a case here in N.J. decades ago that caused a slight division in our office. Our supervisor's father was friends with the cop who shot a young Black man in the back and killed him as he was running away. All of us, except the supervisor agreed that in no way could that boy have been a threat and that it was murder. We let her know we disagreed with her. One of her friends who was also a co-worker and who is White (they are both Jewish) said her sons and their friend acted out the situation and came to the same conclusion...unarmed Black boy, running away could not have posed a threat. Mirroring what you wrote...no matter what that boy did, he did not deserve to be shot in the back. Of course back then cops were rarely (if ever) charged with killing a Black man (or boy) regardless of the circumstances. 

SO ...my son has this thing he tells people "Don't *have* my mother think about you!"  My honorary daughter and granddaughter say the same thing. I was so angry about the shooting and the "Killer Kop" not facing any punishment that I said he will *never *have another moments peace. Sure enough, I found out from my supervisor over a decade later that he had been suffering mentally all those years and could not find peace in his life.  Good for his a*s!


----------



## rgp (Jul 13, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> Regardless, everyone has good qualities no matter what you mean.  The police only did a good job to those who think like police.  In terms of ethics and morality they are sadly mistaken.  Noone deserves to be treated that way.   What if you broke the law?  Would you like to be handled that way in terms of your rights?  He deserved to be treated fairly.  Everyone deserves a chance.



 He had a chance , all his life up to that point. He had a chance to behave , obey the law. I do not know that he had any good qualities .... I only know that when he was ordered to stop , by the police he did not .

Had he stopped , and surrendered to police, he would very likely not even been injured.


----------



## HarryHawk (Jul 13, 2022)

It seems to me that we have created a chicken and egg situation.  We have convinced an entire generation that police are out to kill them whenever possible.

It's not surprising that those individuals first reaction to any police encounter is to run, or even perhaps shoot if they have a firearm.  

One of the above reactions may, the other definitely WILL elicit a response from the police that does not turn out well for the individual. 

That response by the police reinforces the perception that police are looking for any excuse to kill the fore mentioned individuals.

The cycle continues to repeat and deepen.


----------



## rgp (Jul 13, 2022)

HarryHawk said:


> It seems to me that we have created a chicken and egg situation.  We have convinced an entire generation that police are out to kill them whenever possible.
> 
> It's not surprising that those individuals first reaction to any police encounter is to run, or even perhaps shoot if they have a firearm.
> 
> ...



 I agree completely .......... Which is why I say I wonder when the criminal element is going to realize "running" does not work. It is in the news weekly / daily .... yet they contue to do just that. 

IMO, much of it is arrogance , they [criminals] think that they should be permitted to practice their criminal ways , and the police should not have the right to stop them.


----------



## win231 (Jul 13, 2022)

rgp said:


> He had a chance , all his life up to that point. He had a chance to behave , obey the law. I do not know that he had any good qualities .... I only know that when he was ordered to stop , by the police he did not .
> 
> Had he stopped , and surrendered to police, he would very likely not even been injured.


Had these dirt bag cops not committed this crime, the city wouldn't have had to pay an innocent man 7.5 Million dollars for a wrongful conviction & 25 years in prison:
https://www.idahostatejournal.com/n...age_9c8ad695-0d90-5300-aa93-1f6fd1bc7c5d.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/detroit-pay-75m-man-claims-cops-switched-bullets-86763273


----------



## rgp (Jul 14, 2022)

win231 said:


> Had these dirt bag cops not committed this crime, the city wouldn't have had to pay an innocent man 7.5 Million dollars for a wrongful conviction & 25 years in prison:
> https://www.idahostatejournal.com/n...age_9c8ad695-0d90-5300-aa93-1f6fd1bc7c5d.html
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/detroit-pay-75m-man-claims-cops-switched-bullets-86763273




 Neither of which has anything to do with the Jayland Walker topic at hand.

 Typical of you ...... when you can no longer reply with a valid point to the topic at hand .......... You go to insult of someone/anyone pertaining to the topic or not.


----------



## win231 (Jul 14, 2022)

rgp said:


> Neither of which has anything to do with the Jayland Walker topic at hand.
> 
> Typical of you ...... when you can no longer reply with a valid point to the topic at hand .......... You go to insult of someone/anyone pertaining to the topic or not.


The issue--which you intentionally miss--is that criminal cops are not shot 60 times for their misconduct & crimes.  Jayland Walker & others like him are.  And cops who commit murder are rarely prosecuted.


----------



## rgp (Jul 14, 2022)

win231 said:


> The issue--which you intentionally miss--is that criminal cops are not shot 60 times for their misconduct & crimes.  Jayland Walker & others like him are.  And cops who commit murder are rarely prosecuted.




 Well lately they [cops] are being prosecuted. And , the cops unlike Walker & others are not criminals going in ...... in some cases they are [much to my lack of agreement] found later to be .

 How'bout this ...... Let's just keep doing things your way ..... eventually we will have no one between the criminals & us. Police are retiring early all over the country, and recruitment class numbers are at an all time low .. mostly due to the lack of support by the public at large , and the negative attitude reporting by the media.

 Yeah ..... for sure, let's just keep going in that direction .... that'll be just great.

 <sarc>


----------



## rgp (Jul 14, 2022)

win231 said:


> The issue--which you intentionally miss--is that criminal cops are not shot 60 times for their misconduct & crimes.  Jayland Walker & others like him are.  And cops who commit murder are rarely prosecuted.



 BTW .... I intentionally missed nothing ...... the topic at hand was the Jayland Walker case .... nothing else.


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## win231 (Jul 14, 2022)

rgp said:


> Well lately they [cops] are being prosecuted. And , the cops unlike Walker & others are not criminals going in ...... in some cases they are [much to my lack of agreement] found later to be .
> 
> How'bout this ...... Let's just keep doing things your way ..... eventually we will have no one between the criminals & us. Police are retiring early all over the country, and recruitment class numbers are at an all time low .. mostly due to the lack of support by the public at large , and the negative attitude reporting by the media.
> 
> ...


Yes, _some _cops are being prosecuted.
Cell phones with video have changed the fantasy perception of "All cops are heroes who protect us."


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## rgp (Jul 14, 2022)

win231 said:


> Yes, _some _cops are being prosecuted.
> Cell phones with video have changed the fantasy perception of "All cops are heroes who protect us."





win231 said:


> Yes, _some _cops are being prosecuted.
> Cell phones with video have changed the fantasy perception of "All cops are heroes who protect us."



 Indeed.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 15, 2022)

win231 said:


> Yes, _some _cops are being prosecuted.
> Cell phones with video have changed the fantasy perception of "All cops are heroes who protect us."


Prosecuting "Killer Kops" is a relatively new development Win. For decades they have gotten away with killing Black men and boys, then Black women and girls. In fact these KK's (hmmmm maybe another K needs to be added) got away without even being charged. One of the most heartbreaking cases was several decades ago when a cop shot an 8 year old boy, out for a stroll with his father because he "looked like the perp"...WTF!!   

@rgp always makes excuses for them but I suspect that like them, he is racist. He is likely also ignorant to the many circumstances in which the victims committed no crime at all. We (Black people) are very familiar with the term "driving while Black", then there's "walking while Black", etc. and like you pointed out Win...he refuses to acknowledge certain truths. I doubt that he would care anyway. Let sh*t like this happen in his family and I bet he'd change his views. Rgp, don't bother to reply directly to me because I've got you on ignore. Not letting you get on my last nerve ever again! 
@Pecos @mrstime @Ruthanne @dseag2 @ohioboy


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## rgp (Jul 15, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Prosecuting "Killer Kops" is a relatively new development Win. For decades they have gotten away with killing Black men and boys, then Black women and girls. In fact these KK's (hmmmm maybe another K needs to be added) got away without even being charged. One of the most heartbreaking cases was several decades ago when a cop shot an 8 year old boy, out for a stroll with his father because he "looked like the perp"...WTF!!
> 
> @rgp always makes excuses for them but I suspect that like them, he is racist. He is likely also ignorant to the many circumstances in which the victims committed no crime at all. We (Black people) are very familiar with the term "driving while Black", then there's "walking while Black", etc. and like you pointed out Win...he refuses to acknowledge certain truths. I doubt that he would care anyway. Let sh*t like this happen in his family and I bet he'd change his views. Rgp, don't bother to reply directly to me because I've got you on ignore. Not letting you get on my last nerve ever again!
> @Pecos @mrstime @Ruthanne @dseag2




Well, I'll reply anyway . First , how would you know what I "always" do ... and what I ignore, if you have me _*on*_ ignore ?

And , IMO I do not "make-excuses" for them . I see these incidences differently in many cases. And I try to explain them from that point of view.

What I "always" do is simply say ..... behaving is anyones best way to avoid a possible negative encounter with the police.

The way in which the police [or anyone] looks at another group of people is brought on by that group's continued behavior . Every night on the local news there is almost always some black kid that has been arrested for this or that crime ..... are they all innocent ? No. How about all the black on black shootings ? That is damn near every night , one or two killed ..... why is it that the black community never riots in the street about that ? You don't think that creates opinion/attitude ?

If calling me names makes your day ? or in your mind strengthens your argument ? Then please continue , I am emotionally strong, I can take it.

And I only wish for you a pleasent day.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 15, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Prosecuting "Killer Kops" is a relatively new development Win. For decades they have gotten away with killing Black men and boys, then Black women and girls. In fact these KK's (hmmmm maybe another K needs to be added) got away without even being charged. One of the most heartbreaking cases was several decades ago when a cop shot an 8 year old boy, out for a stroll with his father because he "looked like the perp"...WTF!!
> 
> @rgp always makes excuses for them but I suspect that like them, he is racist. He is likely also ignorant to the many circumstances in which the victims committed no crime at all. We (Black people) are very familiar with the term "driving while Black", then there's "walking while Black", etc. and like you pointed out Win...he refuses to acknowledge certain truths. I doubt that he would care anyway. Let sh*t like this happen in his family and I bet he'd change his views. Rgp, don't bother to reply directly to me because I've got you on ignore. Not letting you get on my last nerve ever again!
> @Pecos @mrstime @Ruthanne @dseag2 @ohioboy


I agree that prosecuting police for their homicides or for killing black people is rather a new phenomenon.  I have been shocked for decades about the killing of blacks by the police.  It's way overdue that they be prosecuted for these murders.  It's been a very very sad state of affairs what's been allowed to go down.

I think there still are some good police who do right.  I have had both good and bad experiences with them.   One cop protected me while my car was broke down in rush hour traffic.  Another cop shot at me and nearly blew my head off when I was a teenager.  I was a passenger in a car and will not go into the details.  I have seen how they use too much force.

Anyhow just wanted to say I understand.


----------



## win231 (Jul 16, 2022)

I previously posted about my interesting cop experience when I was 19:  (and, no, I don't dislike all cops; just the bad ones.  They are individuals just like the rest of us)
At 19, my girlfriend & I had a picnic planned in a park. I went to the restroom. When I walked in, I saw a man on the floor, slumped against the wall next to a urinal. I thought, _"He'll probably never get drunk again when he realizes he passed out on a dirty restroom floor."_
After a few seconds, I realized how quiet it was & took a closer look & saw that he wasn't breathing; he was dead. And the brown swede jacket he was wearing was soaked in dried blood. And the zipper on the gym bag next to him was partly open & there was a bunch of cash in it.
I ran out, told my girlfriend about it & we walked across the street to a gas station & called police. They told us to meet them at the park.

One cop went in the restroom & the other one stayed with us. The cop came out of the restroom & said, "Yeah, that's the 211."
He told us the guy tried to rob the liquor store a block away & the clerk shot him.

The cop asked me if I touched anything in the bathroom. I said, "Only the urinal handle to flush it."

The cop asked me, _"Did you see the money in the bag?"_ I said, _"Yes."_

The cop asked me, _"How much cash did you take?"_

I answered,_ "None, sir. How much cash did *YOU* take?"_

The cop asked me, _"Why are you being a smart ass?"_

I said, _"Because you accused me of being a thief."_

The cop says, _"No, I didn't; I asked you if you touched the money."_

I said, _"No, you asked me how much cash I took. Don't you see the difference?"_

He said "Pfffft" & walked away, mumbling something about _"Long-Haired Freaks."_ The other cop took our names & addresses.

After I calmed down, I asked my date: _"Where do they find such dickheads?"_


----------



## rgp (Jul 16, 2022)

win231 said:


> I previously posted about my interesting cop experience when I was 19:  (and, no, I don't dislike all cops; just the bad ones.  They are individuals just like the rest of us)
> At 19, my girlfriend & I had a picnic planned in a park. I went to the restroom. When I walked in, I saw a man on the floor, slumped against the wall next to a urinal. I thought, _"He'll probably never get drunk again when he realizes he passed out on a dirty restroom floor."_
> After a few seconds, I realized how quiet it was & took a closer look & saw that he wasn't breathing; he was dead. And the brown swede jacket he was wearing was soaked in dried blood. And the zipper on the gym bag next to him was partly open & there was a bunch of cash in it.
> I ran out, told my girlfriend about it & we walked across the street to a gas station & called police. They told us to meet them at the park.
> ...



  You were being a smart ass , and disrespectful . 

  I think ? You and I are the same age ? ..... And after all these years you still carry that grudge .....


----------



## Paco Dennis (Jul 16, 2022)

Police procedures are changing faster than a toupee in a hurricane.


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## Sunny (Jul 16, 2022)

rgp said:


> He didn't run as a life saving mechanism .......... He ran after _*shooting at them*_ because he wanted to escape , for reasons of his initial crime.
> 
> The single best mechanism to avoid being shot by the police is simply to just behave ...... commit no crime !


He was unarmed.


----------



## rgp (Jul 16, 2022)

Sunny said:


> He was unarmed.



Well ...... that's your opinion . Every news cast I have heard on the incident says he shot at them from the car ..... and a gun and an extra clip were found in the car .

While i respect your opinion  , I completely disagree.

From CNN , through Google .....


"A chase ensued and police said shots were fired at officers from the vehicle during the pursuit.
After chasing the vehicle "for several minutes," the department said the person slowed down and fled from the vehicle while it was still moving, leading officers on a "foot pursuit" which ended in a parking lot."


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## win231 (Jul 16, 2022)

rgp said:


> You were being a smart ass , and disrespectful .
> 
> I think ? You and I are the same age ? ..... And after all these years you still carry that grudge .....


Respect is _earned_.  NOT something given automatically because of a uniform.  A police officer who accuses someone of being a thief without evidence is not only an idiot, but also unworthy of that uniform.  The jerk got exactly the respect he deserved - none.
"Carry that grudge?"  Naw, it just taught me at a young age that people are individuals.
BTW, Have you started working on that _"Free Derek Chauvin"_ petition?


----------



## HarryHawk (Jul 16, 2022)

Whether he was a criminal or not a criminal, one wonders why he would be wearing a ski mask while driving down the road?

_The violent episode began when police tried to pull over Walker for traffic and equipment violations. The suspect refused to pull over and led officers on a four minute high-speed chase and fired one shot at them, police said.

Walker then jumped out of his still-moving car wearing a ski mask and was Tased and met with a hail of gunfire as he ran through a parking lot. He was not carrying a gun when he was shot. The autopsy also found he was sober at the time of his death._

Something else interesting, this was the second car chase he was involved in on consecutive days, that seems to be repeatedly practicing risky behavior -

_Police in nearby New Franklin Township had tried to pull over Walker a day earlier for a broken tail light but stopped pursuing him when he drove into neighboring Akron._

Quotes extracted from - https://nypost.com/2022/07/15/jayland-walker-shot-46-times-by-ohio-cops-autopsy-finds/


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## rgp (Jul 16, 2022)

win231 said:


> Respect is _earned_.  NOT something given automatically because of a uniform.  A police officer who accuses someone of being a thief without evidence is not only an idiot, but also unworthy of that uniform.  The jerk got exactly the respect he deserved - none.
> "Carry that grudge?"  Naw, it just taught me at a young age that people are individuals.
> BTW, Have you started working on that _"Free Derek Chauvin"_ petition?



 Always with the smartass remark ......... you just can't help yourself can you?

 Its no wonder the cop thought you might have helped yourself to a few bucks.


----------



## rgp (Jul 16, 2022)

HarryHawk said:


> Whether he was a criminal or not a criminal, one wonders why he would be wearing a ski mask while driving down the road?
> 
> _The violent episode began when police tried to pull over Walker for traffic and equipment violations. The suspect refused to pull over and led officers on a four minute high-speed chase and fired one shot at them, police said.
> 
> ...



 <grin> ...... but in the mind of many , some here, he had the right to do all that crap, and the police were wrong to persue him, and shoot him.


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## Knight (Jul 16, 2022)

An unloaded gun, ammunition and a wedding band were found in the front seat of his car.

So he shot at the police with an unloaded gun? 


Police in nearby New Franklin Township had tried to pull over Walker a day earlier for a broken tail light but stopped pursuing him when he drove into neighboring Akron.

Pure speculation on my part.

And they stopped pursuing because it wasn't their jurisdiction. I wonder how they knew it was the same person. Did knowing that it was the same person make the chase more important to catch the person the other police chase wasn't able to? A one upsmanship to show they were the better police force? 

He was shot 46 times according to the article. I've been watching to many crime stories on TV where actual cases the coroner pin point the location of the entry points of a person being shot. Strange to me the article doesn't mention if he shot even once in the front. 

https://nypost.com/2022/07/15/jayland-walker-shot-46-times-by-ohio-cops-autopsy-finds/


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## win231 (Jul 16, 2022)

rgp said:


> Always with the smartass remark ......... you just can't help yourself can you?
> 
> Its no wonder the cop thought you might have helped yourself to a few bucks.


The cop thought I might have stolen money because that's what _*HE*_ would have done.  Criminals often justify what they do by saying "Everybody does it."  And we've seen countless examples of cops who steal money, drugs and guns - both from their own evidence lockers and from suspects.
https://ktla.com/news/california/fr...f-stealing-from-suspect-taking-drugs-on-duty/
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/07/7943...-accused-of-stealing-money-from-drug-suspects
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-yor...0220311-q5v5difd2rffhpp5ptdywpd3vy-story.html
https://www.complex.com/life/califo...shes-patrol-car-steals-uses-meth-from-suspect
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/10/...from-suspect-after-body-camera-missing-money/
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/new...ce-room-swaps-out-oxycontin-for-aleve-6665021
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/n...ears-for-stealing-drugs-during-traffic-stops/

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/249850.pdf

There is lots more.  Please let me know if you want more info.


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 16, 2022)

Knight said:


> An unloaded gun, ammunition and a wedding band were found in the front seat of his car.
> 
> So he shot at the police with an unloaded gun?
> 
> ...


They had diagrams where he was shot on my local news:. 1 time in the face, about 5 times in the back, about 15 times in the front -liver, spleen, left kidney,heart, lungs, etc; also in the right leg and foot.


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 16, 2022)

win231 said:


> The cop thought I might have stolen money because that's what _*HE*_ would have done.  Criminals often justify what they do by saying "Everybody does it."  And we've seen countless examples of cops who steal money, drugs and guns - both from their own evidence lockers and from suspects.
> https://ktla.com/news/california/fr...f-stealing-from-suspect-taking-drugs-on-duty/
> https://www.npr.org/2020/01/07/7943...-accused-of-stealing-money-from-drug-suspects
> https://www.nydailynews.com/new-yor...0220311-q5v5difd2rffhpp5ptdywpd3vy-story.html
> ...


A gun was in his car and a clip with bullets in it.  Sorry I was replying to @Knight


----------



## Lawrence00 (Jul 16, 2022)




----------



## Knight (Jul 16, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> They had diagrams where he was shot on my local news:. 1 time in the face, about 5 times in the back, about 15 times in the front -liver, spleen, left kidney,heart, lungs, etc; also in the right leg and foot.


So there is no real way to know if being shot in the back dropped him & then shot on the ground took place?


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 16, 2022)

Knight said:


> So there is no real way to know if being shot in the back dropped him & then shot on the ground took place?


I don't know.  I didn't see all of the videos.  They did not show it all on tv.  That will probably be determined later.


----------



## FastTrax (Jul 16, 2022)

www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/us/police-shooting-video-arizona.html

www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/daniel-shaver-mesa-brailsford-shot-dead-police-facebook-flanigan-11374239

www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2017/11/14/former-mesa-police-sergeant-backs-decision-mitch-brailsford-fatal-shooting/864693001/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver


----------



## FastTrax (Jul 16, 2022)

www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-ne-cb-nouman-raja-trial-preview-20190213-story.html

www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-pn-raja-stand-your-ground-hearing-day-1-story.html

www.miaminewtimes.com/news/palm-beach-gardens-cop-nouman-raja-gets-25-years-in-prison-for-killing-corey-jones-11156517

www.cbsnews.com/news/tapes-contradict-cops-version-of-fatal-shooting-of-black-drummer-corey-jones/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Corey_Jones


----------



## FastTrax (Jul 16, 2022)

www.nydailynews.com/news/national/miami-police-officer-identified-shooting-black-therapist-article-1.2721929

www.miaminewtimes.com/news/essay-by-north-miami-officer-jonathon-aledda-after-shooting-charles-kinsey-11657717

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/north-miami-officer-who-shot-unarmed-caregiver-man-autism-found-n1018616

www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/former-top-north-miami-cop-suing-city-chief-over-kinsey-shooting/44100/

www.facebook.com/TheHill/posts/just-in-jonathan-aledda-a-former-miami-police-officer-who-was-previously-hit-wit/10157170956209087/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey


----------



## FastTrax (Jul 16, 2022)

www.wsls.com/topic/Matthew_Bernard/

www.wsls.com/news/2019/08/29/arraignment-for-triple-murder-suspect-canceled-due-to-hospitalization

www.dreshare.com/blake-bivens/

www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=bivens000bla

www.espn.com/mlb/story/29131360/blake-bivens-found-family-was-dead-facebook


----------



## rgp (Jul 16, 2022)

win231 said:


> The cop thought I might have stolen money because that's what _*HE*_ would have done.  Criminals often justify what they do by saying "Everybody does it."  And we've seen countless examples of cops who steal money, drugs and guns - both from their own evidence lockers and from suspects.
> https://ktla.com/news/california/fr...f-stealing-from-suspect-taking-drugs-on-duty/
> https://www.npr.org/2020/01/07/7943...-accused-of-stealing-money-from-drug-suspects
> https://www.nydailynews.com/new-yor...0220311-q5v5difd2rffhpp5ptdywpd3vy-story.html
> ...



 No, I tend to stick with the topic at hand , as opposed to clouding the air with unrelated stories.

So you are clairvoyant ? And have the ability to just know what that officer "would" do?


----------



## FastTrax (Jul 16, 2022)

www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/09/levar-jones-sean-groubert-dashcam-shooting

www.postandcourier.com/free-times/news/local_and_state_news/bullets-are-hot-and-they-are-very-painful/article_1b03e493-cce4-5391-93fa-c7f531dd2d09.html

www.abccolumbia.com/2017/08/17/icymi-levar-jones-talks-about-forgiveness-after-trooper-shot-him-in-2014/


----------



## win231 (Jul 16, 2022)

rgp said:


> No, I tend to stick with the topic at hand , as opposed to clouding the air with unrelated stories.
> 
> So you are clairvoyant ? And have the ability to just know what that officer "would" do?


B-B-B-But do you want more information?


----------



## SeniorBen (Jul 16, 2022)

There are a LOT of bad cops out there. While most are good, honorable, and decent people — probably fairly large majority — there are a LOT of bad ones who seem to be trigger happy, and until that stops, the entire force looks bad. Even if it's only 10% that are bad, that's still a lot.

The secret service isn't looking too good these days, either.

*Secret Service deleted text messages from Jan. 6 and previous day, Homeland Security watchdog says*
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/14/sec...ious-day-homeland-security-watchdog-says.html


----------



## ElCastor (Jul 17, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I don't know if it's cultural thing or what-but black guys run from the cops. Whites seem to surrender???? I've seen way too many reality cop shows to know a black guy will try to run from the cops, and make a mad dash to his 'hood', because he knows the area and thinks he can hide from the cops. Of course, the cops are hell bent in not letting the black guy escape. It's almost a video game.


Another reality that we would prefer not to discuss is that where the offender is known, approximately 50% of annual homicides in the US are committed by Black offenders, while Blacks comprise just 13% - 14% of the population. Some of those deaths are police officers, but where is all the hand wringing when a White police officer is killed?


----------



## HarryHawk (Jul 17, 2022)

No doubt that folks have been killed by police who shouldn't have been killed, there is also no doubt that there are people who want to kill police officers -

_Intentional killings of police officers spiked by an alarming 59% in 2021 compared to the previous year, according to newly released FBI data.

There were 73 law enforcement officers feloniously killed in the line of duty in 2021, according to preliminary year-end data from the FBI._

Just a guess that more officers have been unjustly killed by civilians than civilians unjustly killed by police.

It is not surprising that people under stress may act based on their preconceived perceptions.


----------



## Knight (Jul 17, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> I don't know.  I didn't see all of the videos.  They did not show it all on tv.  That will probably be determined later.


A full report later is what I originally hoped for.  The little bits of info filtering out make it reasonable to voice an opinion. For me I can't understand to logic of shooting at Walker as described. The claim he shot at police has yet to be verified. Details like was the gun fired recently, was the clip full or was ammo missing? Was there any gun powder residue on him or the window sill of the car? How did the police hear shot or shots being fired over the wail of sirens? Really difficult for me to grasp is the quantity of times he was shot & the amount of bullets found in his body. 

All that for evading police at a traffic stop.  8 officers fearing for their lives while shooting at his back just way more than I can grasp.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Jul 17, 2022)

It’s a horrible incident, but in fairness to the officers involved, I’m not sure how they would decide who should shoot at s suspect and who should standby.

I would like to know more about the alleged gunshot during the chase, why Mr. Walker felt the need to wear a ski mask, etc…

IMO it’s a tragic incident that could have been prevented if Mr. Walker had complied with the initial traffic stop.

I don’t have any animosity towards the officers involved if they were following their training, but that training may need to be reviewed and improved.

I hope a full report is made available so we can have a better understanding of exactly what happened.


----------



## HarryHawk (Jul 17, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> There are a LOT of bad cops out there. While most are good, honorable, and decent people — probably fairly large majority — there are a LOT of bad ones who seem to be trigger happy, and until that stops, the entire force looks bad. Even if it's only 10% that are bad, that's still a lot.


So do you think your 10% estimates of bad and/or trigger-happy people applies across the entire population, or just the police department.  Obviously if 10% of the police are bad/trigger-happy they should either be in jail, or at least fired from the force.

Unless the police department purposely hires bad ones, your estimate should apply to the general population as well.  Do you think 10% of the overall population are bad/criminal/trigger-happy and should also be dealt with in some fashion?

For purposes of discussion, there are over* 324,882* police officers currently employed in the United States. *1,136* people were killed by police in 2021, officers were charged with a crime in only *12* of these cases. *One percent* of all killings by police.

346 police officers were shot in the line of duty in 2021 — 63 of whom were killed


----------



## Sunny (Jul 17, 2022)

rgp said:


> Well ...... that's your opinion . Every news cast I have heard on the incident says he shot at them from the car ..... and a gun and an extra clip were found in the car .
> 
> While i respect your opinion  , I completely disagree.
> 
> ...


I guess a lot of this rides on the definition of "unarmed."  Yes, the police reported finding a gun in his car. But when he got out of the car and was just walking, was he armed?  Owning a gun, or even having used it before getting out of the car, does not make a person armed. If he shot at police from the car, he of course should have been arrested. But why the necessity to kill him?

This sounds to me more like an excess of adrenaline on the part of the police, followed by a lame excuse. The job of the police is not to be executioners.  Feels like George Floyd all over again.


----------



## SeniorBen (Jul 17, 2022)

HarryHawk said:


> So do you think your 10% estimates of bad and/or trigger-happy people applies across the entire population, or just the police department.  Obviously if 10% of the police are bad/trigger-happy they should either be in jail, or at least fired from the force.
> 
> Unless the police department purposely hires bad ones, your estimate should apply to the general population as well.  Do you think 10% of the overall population are bad/criminal/trigger-happy and should also be dealt with in some fashion?
> 
> ...


There are far more dangerous occupations than being a police officer, and they all pay a lot less. Police officer isn't even in the top twenty.


----------



## Knight (Jul 17, 2022)

I'm still in favor of an investigation to present facts but meanwhile. Thought about this today.

Wearing a ski mask, I think I read that he was acting strange since the woman he was going to marry died. Gun wedding ring on front seat of his car. 2nd. night evading the police. Some of the indicators in this list.

Inducing Officers to Shoot," compiled by Dr. Vivian B. Lord and published by Looseleaf
Law Publications. Through his research and personal experience, Dr. Perrou has identified
15 indicators that can help you recognize when you may be facing an SbC situation.
The 15 indicators are:
• The subject is barricaded and refuses to negotiate.
• The subject has just killed someone, particularly a close relative, his mother, wife or
child.
• The subject says that he has a life-threatening illness.
• The subject's demands of police do not include negotiations for escape or freedom.
• The subject has undergone one or more traumatic life changes
( death of a loved one, divorce, financial devastation, etc.)
• Before the encounter, the subject has given away all of his money or possessions.
• The subject has a record of assaults.
• Subject says he will only surrender to the person in charge.
• Subject indicates that he has thought about planning his death.
• Has expressed an interest in wanting to die in a "macho" way.
• Has expressed interest in "going out in a big way."
• Subject expresses feelings of hopelessness or helplessness.
• The subject dictates his will to negotiators.
• The subject demands to be killed.
• The subject sets a deadline to be killed.
If you find that several of these indicators are present, you may be dealing with a subject
who wants to be killed and someone who may be willing to take any steps to reach that
goal including, of course, firing on you. In situations like this, tactical vigilance is critical.
Your recognition of the fact that a subject is interested only in having you shoot him
should NOT cause you to hesitate to do so if at any point you feel your life is threatened.
Remember, this subject wants to die and he may stop at nothing to reach his goal,
including taking you or a fellow officer with him.
In "Suicide by Cop: Inducing Officers to Shoot,"

https://mpitraining.com/wp-content/...tent/external_files/Calibre-Press-Article.pdf

It's not me trying to excuse the quantity of bullets he was shot with. Just a thought about why he might have did what he did.


----------



## HarryHawk (Jul 17, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> There are far more dangerous occupations than being a police officer, and they all pay a lot less. Police officer isn't even in the top twenty.


I'm not sure I understand your point?  You think police are over paid based on how many are killed in the line of duty?


----------



## rgp (Jul 17, 2022)

Sunny said:


> I guess a lot of this rides on the definition of "unarmed."  Yes, the police reported finding a gun in his car. But when he got out of the car and was just walking, was he armed?  Owning a gun, or even having used it before getting out of the car, does not make a person armed. If he shot at police from the car, he of course should have been arrested. But why the necessity to kill him?
> 
> This sounds to me more like an excess of adrenaline on the part of the police, followed by a lame excuse. The job of the police is not to be executioners.  Feels like George Floyd all over again.



 If he was shooting at them from the car, then jumped out running, .... it would be very reasonable to assume he still had a weapon at that time .{I would} as such they persued him with that thought in mind. 

Again ..... My main argument/debate in all these situations is simply ...... why do people defend the criminal ? and disparage the police ? the ones on our side ? Makes no sense to me.


----------



## win231 (Jul 17, 2022)

rgp said:


> If he was shooting at them from the car, then jumped out running, .... it would be very reasonable to assume he still had a weapon at that time .{I would} as such they persued him with that thought in mind.
> 
> Again ..... My main argument/debate in all these situations is simply ...... why do people defend the criminal ? and disparage the police ? the ones on our side ? Makes no sense to me.


People only disparage the police when their actions are as bad or worse than criminals.


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 17, 2022)

Knight said:


> I'm still in favor of an investigation to present facts but meanwhile. Thought about this today.
> 
> Wearing a ski mask, I think I read that he was acting strange since the woman he was going to marry died. Gun wedding ring on front seat of his car. 2nd. night evading the police. Some of the indicators in this list.
> 
> ...


I have thought about that also.  It's just so sad, what happened and for whatever reason.  I'm waiting to see what the investigation brings.


----------



## rgp (Jul 17, 2022)

win231 said:


> People only disparage the police when their actions are as bad or worse than criminals.



 How in the world can they [the police] be doing worse than the criminals ? When they are trying to apprehend the criminals . The ones that have only crime on their mind. Only think about ways to prey on us ?


----------



## SeniorBen (Jul 17, 2022)

rgp said:


> How in the world can they [the police] be doing worse than the criminals ? When they are trying to apprehend the criminals . The ones that have only crime on their mind. *Only think about ways to prey on us ?*


That sounds like a lot of corporations in their quest to wring every last dollar out of the American public. The difference is, they have the power to influence legislators and often write legislation passed by federal and state congresses that makes their predatory and unethical behavior perfectly legal, to which they're defended by the uninformed and misinformed with the mantra: well, corporations are just taking advantage of the laws as they're written.

While corporations don't go around stabbing or shooting people, they're far more dangerous. They sometimes kill people by producing dangerous products or by contaminating the environment with hazardous materials and toxins.

But of course, corporations are the "job creators" whereas poor people who commit crimes are not.


----------



## SeniorBen (Jul 17, 2022)

Here's another example of out of control or just plain incompetent cops. An armed man in a downtown Denver crowd last night allegedly posed a "significant threat." So what do the cops do? They open fire on the man, striking five innocent bystanders in the process. The armed man never fired a shot.
https://coloradosun.com/2022/07/17/downtown-denver-police-shooting/

Unreal. Good thing the cops arrived to protect... ummm... they must have been protecting someone.


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 18, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Some of those deaths are police officers, but where is all the hand wringing when a White police officer is killed?


Here is a story I posted awhile back and it's very sad too.  He was only 25 years old.

Officer Shane Bartek Killed


----------



## Patricia (Jul 18, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> They had diagrams where he was shot on my local news:. 1 time in the face, about 5 times in the back, about 15 times in the front -liver, spleen, left kidney,heart, lungs, etc; also in the right leg and foot.


Seemingly most anyone would think that sounds like so many bullets and how to explain.


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 18, 2022)

Patricia said:


> Seemingly most anyone would think that sounds like so many bullets and how to explain.


It is a lot of bullets..  I explained according to my local news and what they explained.  Very sad case.


----------



## rgp (Jul 18, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> It is a lot of bullets..  I explained according to my local news and what they explained.  Very sad case.



 Latest I heard it is now 46 bullets. But as I & others have said which one of them killed him ? So 46 - 60 does it matter ? IMO the reapeated fire from the police was very likely adrenaline.


----------



## SeniorBen (Jul 18, 2022)

Knight said:


> I'm still in favor of an investigation to present facts but meanwhile. Thought about this today.
> 
> Wearing a ski mask, I think I read that he was acting strange since the woman he was going to marry died. Gun wedding ring on front seat of his car. 2nd. night evading the police. Some of the indicators in this list.
> 
> ...


You might be right. It does sound like suicide by cop.


----------



## Creek Pirate (Jul 18, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> News article:   Jayland Walker Story
> 
> Jayland Walker was gunnned down by 8 police officers and at least 60 to 90 bullets were fired  They said he fired a shot out of his car before fleeing his car running while police pursued him.  He was initially stopped for a traffic incident.
> 
> ...


He shoots at the cops when he is pulled over, then he shoots at the cops while driving and the when the car does come to a stop and the cops don't know he is unarmed, he runs. Then they open fire on him and kill him. 3 times he could have stopped and lived. 3 times he decided not to. but you see it as over kill. Humm, if they would have let him go and he killed others, would you be okay with that. Just why was he wearing a mask? No, if your pulled over, put your hands on the wheel, wait in the car and do what is instructed. At worse you end up at the police station. Oh if you placed in the police car....stay there!


----------



## HarryHawk (Jul 18, 2022)

It is too bad that the individual was killed.   This individual was involved in two high speed chases on two successive days.  What would have been even sadder if he had killed some totally innocent people as he was being chased on either one of those days -

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/n...ing-high-speed-chase-grieves-demands-answers/

_BREAKING: Family members have identified the young girl killed during a Brooklyn Center police chase as Blessings McLurain-Gray. Police were chasing murder suspect Hakeem Muhammad when he slammed into a car McLaurin gray was in with her family. She was six years old._


----------



## Creek Pirate (Jul 18, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> This is what I posted in the thread about the Highland Park shooter.
> And I must point out that yet again...another White boy gets *arrested and will live to stand trial. *But a young, unarmed Black man who was running away from cops after a car chase was shot by 8 officers, at least 60 times! Had he killed anyone? NO! Had he shot anyone? NO! Makes me sick!!
> 
> I have a Black son, 4 Black grandsons and several more step-sons and step-grandsons (well one of those looks White). This is something that hurts me, angers me, concerns me and yes, frightens me! It could happen to my "babies"....none of whom are criminals, because it's all too common in this country.  I know it won't bring Jayland back and nothing takes the place of your child but I hope the family sues the bazoobas out of the city and wins the case.


Let me get this straight, he shoots at cops and misses. So you think the cops should not shoot to kill a man that they didn't know if he was armed that's running away. Sounds like this guy wanted to be shot by a cop after all he tried it twice. Race has nothing to do with it. He could have just exited the car and put his hands on the hood and it would have ended. Now I guess the 8 cops should have stood there and worked out who was going to shoot so that not so many bullets would be used. Rule number one, don't shoot at cops! Stop making it a race thing when it's his actions that got him shot.


----------



## rgp (Jul 18, 2022)

Creek Pirate said:


> He shoots at the cops when he is pulled over, then he shoots at the cops while driving and the when the car does come to a stop and the cops don't know he is unarmed, he runs. Then they open fire on him and kill him. 3 times he could have stopped and lived. 3 times he decided not to. but you see it as over kill. Humm, if they would have let him go and he killed others, would you be okay with that. Just why was he wearing a mask? No, if your pulled over, put your hands on the wheel, wait in the car and do what is instructed. At worse you end up at the police station. Oh if you placed in the police car....stay there!



 Exactly ! But so many fail to see this ??


----------



## rgp (Jul 18, 2022)

Creek Pirate said:


> Let me get this straight, he shoots at cops and misses. So you think the cops should not shoot to kill a man that they didn't know if he was armed that's running away. Sounds like this guy wanted to be shot by a cop after all he tried it twice. Race has nothing to do with it. He could have just exited the car and put his hands on the hood and it would have ended. Now I guess the 8 cops should have stood there and worked out who was going to shoot so that not so many bullets would be used. Rule number one, don't shoot at cops! Stop making it a race thing when it's his actions that got him shot.



 Of corse i agree here as well.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jul 18, 2022)

Creek Pirate said:


> Let me get this straight, he shoots at cops and misses. So you think the cops should not shoot to kill a man that they didn't know if he was armed that's running away. Sounds like this guy wanted to be shot by a cop after all he tried it twice. Race has nothing to do with it. He could have just exited the car and put his hands on the hood and it would have ended. Now I guess the 8 cops should have stood there and worked out who was going to shoot so that not so many bullets would be used. Rule number one, don't shoot at cops! Stop making it a race thing when it's his actions that got him shot.


Last I saw, whether or not he really shot at the cops was up for debate. And you're going to tell me it took 8 cops to shoot at this guy and take him down?! PUH-LEEZE!!! Open your eyes! This was *literally* overkill !  And your reply still does not negate my point.


----------



## SeniorBen (Jul 19, 2022)

rgp said:


> Of corse i agree here as well.


A corse is a corpse.   

Wait, that's not funny.


----------



## rgp (Jul 19, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Last I saw, whether or not he really shot at the cops was up for debate. And you're going to tell me it took 8 cops to shoot at this guy and take him down?! PUH-LEEZE!!! Open your eyes! This was *literally* overkill !  And your reply still does not negate my point.



 How can it be "overkill" ....... once one is dead , they are dead ..... they cannot be "overkilled"

Are you proposing that if only [say] 2 police officers, or perhaps only one police officer would have shot at him ......... he might have gotten away ?


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 19, 2022)

Creek Pirate said:


> He shoots at the cops when he is pulled over, then he shoots at the cops while driving and the when the car does come to a stop and the cops don't know he is unarmed, he runs. Then they open fire on him and kill him. 3 times he could have stopped and lived. 3 times he decided not to. but you see it as over kill. Humm, if they would have let him go and he killed others, would you be okay with that. Just why was he wearing a mask? No, if your pulled over, put your hands on the wheel, wait in the car and do what is instructed. At worse you end up at the police station. Oh if you placed in the police car....stay there!


I'm not going to answer you.


----------



## ohioboy (Nov 23, 2022)

A complaint has been filed with the Ohio Supreme Court seeking a Writ of Mandamus compelling the City of Akron to release the names of officers involved in the shooting resulting in Jayland Walker's death. A public records request was made, but denied.


----------



## Ruthanne (Nov 23, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> A complaint has been filed with the Ohio Supreme Court seeking a Writ of Mandamus compelling the City of Akron to release the names of officers involved in the shooting resulting in Jayland Walker's death. A public records request was made, but denied.


Thanks for that information.  I didn't know that.


----------



## ohioboy (Nov 23, 2022)

The Supreme Court of Ohio
Case Information
Case:
2022-1444:  The State of Ohio ex rel. Copley Ohio Newspapers, Inc., d/b/a Akron Beacon Journal v. The City of Akron, Ohio and The Akron Police Department

Original Action in Mandamus

Filed:11/21/2022
Status:Case is Open
11/21/2022    Complaint in mandamus of Copley Ohio Newspapers, Inc. dba Akron Beacon Journal - Volume I of III    Relator

11/21/2022    Complaint in mandamus of Copley Ohio Newspapers, Inc. dba Akron Beacon Journal - Volume II of III    Relator

11/21/2022    Complaint in mandamus of Copley Ohio Newspapers, Inc. dba Akron Beacon Journal - Volume III of III    Relator

11/21/2022    Affidavit and Exhibits - Volume I of III    Relator
11/21/2022    Affidavit and Exhibits - Volume II of III    Relator
11/21/2022    Affidavit and Exhibits - Volume III of III    Relator
11/22/2022    Summons & complaint


----------



## Ruthanne (Nov 23, 2022)

In Akron they voted about overseeing the police force by citizens and won.


----------



## ohioboy (Nov 23, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> In Akron they voted about overseeing the police force by citizens and won.


I saw that on the news!


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## Ruthanne (Nov 23, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> I saw that on the news!


I want to see how that works out.


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## win231 (Nov 24, 2022)

Sunny said:


> I guess a lot of this rides on the definition of "unarmed."  Yes, the police reported finding a gun in his car. But when he got out of the car and was just walking, was he armed?  Owning a gun, or even having used it before getting out of the car, does not make a person armed. If he shot at police from the car, he of course should have been arrested. But why the necessity to kill him?
> 
> This sounds to me more like an excess of adrenaline on the part of the police, followed by a lame excuse. The job of the police is not to be executioners.  Feels like George Floyd all over again.


Not quite.  George Floyd was not armed & was already handcuffed & helpless when police murdered him.


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