# Vaccine risks vs. reward



## Sunny (Apr 23, 2021)

Opinion by 
Fareed Zakaria
Columnist
April 22, 2021 at 6:13 p.m. EDT

The pandemic has brought out the crazy in all of us. We’ve all been selective about the science we take seriously and the stuff we disregard. We’ve often been more moved by vivid anecdotes than scholarly studies.

But I really start to worry when even the experts seem irrational. Consider the decision from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration to recommend pausing distribution of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine after six cases of severe blood clots were reported in the United States (now nine). Nearly 7 million Americans had already safely received the vaccine. That’s a 0.0001 percent chance of a blood clot.
Meanwhile, 1.5 percent of covid-19 patients still die from the virus. In other words, even if all the blood clots proved fatal — and most have not been — the virus would still be thousands of times more dangerous than the vaccine.

The agencies’ decision came after similar rare reports of blood clotting led European nations to temporarily suspend the AstraZeneca vaccine in March. That vaccine uses  technology similar to Johnson & Johnson’s, and again its benefits far outweigh the potential dangers.
These government pauses are fueling many people’s fears about vaccine safety, perpetuating conspiracy theories and wasting precious time at a moment when the crucial imperative is to get people vaccinated. Many developing nations are counting on these two vaccines because they are cheaper than mRNA vaccines and easier to store. Now, though, even some people in those places are scared to get them.
Full coverage of the coronavirus pandemic
There is a pattern to the problem. Politicians and governments are much too worried about the chance of something bad happening on their watch, no matter how unlikely. For example, there has been a reluctance to send children back to school, even though numerous studies have found the risks to be quite low if precautions are taken. And while the dangers are exaggerated, few people think about the massive benefits to society — to children, parents, the economy as a whole — if schools would reopen quickly.

Sometimes this obsession with risk turns into what the Atlantic’s Derek Thompson calls “hygiene theater.” It has been apparent that the virus overwhelmingly spreads by breathing, not by touching surfaces. Yet businesses have made a great show of sanitizing everything, as if activities such as indoor dining are somehow safe if only the tables are clean. Thompson is reminded of the “security theater” at airports after 9/11. An elaborate set of measures — toss away your water bottles! — was put into place to make people feel safe, much of it useless.

More important, the obsession with the dangers of terrorism — which, even after 9/11, were quite low — led us to build a massive new homeland security industrial complex, launch military interventions across the globe and curtail civil liberties just to try to reduce the incidence of terrorism to as close to zero as possible. We denied hundreds of thousands of people visas into the United States just because we wanted to be sure that no one let in someone who turned out to be a terrorist. In government, the incentive is always to take every precaution and spend as much money as necessary to ensure that bad things don’t happen. Those are the events that make you lose your job or get you pilloried by the media or hauled in front of a congressional committee. If you make lots of good things happen, by contrast, you will be lucky to get a pat on the back.

During the early stages of the pandemic, the U.S. government kept worrying too much about all the problems that could emerge from rapid mass testing and neglected to consider the huge benefits of returning to normal life. Harvard epidemiologist Michael Mina argued that we should have authorized all kinds of tests — in-home, pregnancy-style ones, for example — that would have offered constant information about who was safe and unsafe. Getting tests to be 100 percent accurate was less important than catching most cases before they spread.

The truth is that we live with risks all the time. Nearly 40,000 Americans die every year in car accidents. Would we agree to make the speed limit 25 miles per hour if it would save half of those deaths? Even now, hundreds of Americans are dying of covid every day, compared with the nine people who got blood clots. We need to think more closely, carefully and rationally about risk and remember to balance it with that other half of the equation: reward.


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## Alligatorob (Apr 23, 2021)

Good post, everyone should get the shots!


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## win231 (Apr 23, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Good post, everyone should get the shots!


Nope.  Everyone who _wants_ to should get the shots.  Your health is in your hands.  Others' health is in their hands.
If you had confidence in the shots, you wouldn't be concerned about people who don't want the shots because your shot would protect you.
What's stopping you from getting the shots?


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 23, 2021)

It's a nice post, but I doubt that it will change any minds. 

We all need to make choices that we feel are best for our situation and accept the consequences of those decisions.

I'm happy with my decision to get the J&J shot.


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## Jeweltea (Apr 23, 2021)

Great Post!


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## digifoss (Apr 23, 2021)

Another good opinion, and just another opinion.  This might be all thats needed for anyone that is already almost convinced to get the shot.  Those who don't want the shot will most likely not change their mind because of a nice online article in favor of getting it like this one or the many others.


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## Lara (Apr 23, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> It's a nice post, but I doubt that it will change any minds.
> 
> We all need to make choices that we feel are best for our situation and accept the consequences of those decisions.
> 
> I'm happy with my decision to get the J&J shot.



My brother-in-law/doctor wrote me a sweet letter urging me to get the shot and recommended the Pfizer shot. He said, "We all love you and want you to enjoy a good long life. We would miss you terribly and it would be such a waste that was completely preventable."

So I'm scheduled to get it tomorrow but I sure hate putting those ingredients into my body when I'm always so careful not to to put anything unnatural in it. I've never had the flu shot and have never gotten the flu. My immune sytsem is great. It's a tough decision...but I made the appointment.

But I have no intention of shaming anyone who chooses not to have it. I won't judge their reasons. It's a personal decision for all.


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## digifoss (Apr 23, 2021)

Lara said:


> My brother-in-law/doctor wrote me a sweet letter urging me to get the shot and recommended the Pfizer shot. He said, "We all love you and want you to enjoy a good long life. We would miss you terribly and it would be such a waste that was completely preventable."
> 
> I'm scheduled to get it tomorrow but I sure hate putting those ingredients into my body when I'm always so careful not to to put anything unnatural in it. I've never had the flu shot and have never gotten the flu. My immune sytsem is great. It's a tough decision...but I made the appointment.


I wouldn't get anything like this because someone else want's me to.  This is a personal decision that no one should make but yourself.  Your words " I sure hate putting those ingredients into my body " tells me that you need to make sure that this is what YOU want to do.


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## Lara (Apr 23, 2021)

Thank you digifoss. I know. Believe me when I said "it's a tough decision". My daughters don't want me to get it but acknowledge that it's my choice and will be there for me whatever it is.


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## Dana (Apr 23, 2021)

.
During a pandemic, no decision is "personal." If you live in a community you are playing a part in the preservation of that community ... therefore... if others are willing to protect you by getting vaccinated... You owe them a debt and that debt is to get vaccinated unless you are cleared not by your family doctor alone but an impartial examiner.
.


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## Alligatorob (Apr 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> Everyone who _wants_ to should get the shots. Your health is in your hands. Others' health is in their hands.


I don't think it is quite so simple.  If you get the vaccine you are less likely to contract and spread the virus to others.  So by getting it you positively impact not only your own health but the health of others.  So to some extent others' health is in your hands.  Statistically we are not yet sure how complete this protection is, but I believe it is clear that by getting the vaccine you are helping protect others.

As you and others here have said this is a personal choice, and it is a free county, I would not want anyone to be forced to get the vaccine.  However I would hope people carefully consider the good science behind this before deciding not to get one.  And to try and put the politics and media hype aside.  For some that will make it, quite understandably, a hard decision, I just hope most make the right one.

We are not very good at understanding relative risk, but this is one time it really is worthwhile for folks to make the effort.

And I did get the shots, 2 Pfizers, as soon as I was able to qualify.


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## win231 (Apr 23, 2021)

Dana said:


> .
> During a pandemic, no decision is "personal." If you live in a community you are playing a part in the preservation of that community ... therefore... if others are willing to protect you by getting vaccinated... You owe them a debt and that debt is to get vaccinated unless you are cleared not by your family doctor alone but an impartial examiner.
> .


_"Others are willing to protect you by getting vaccinated?"   _LOL.  Amazing mind-reading talent.
Others don't protect anyone else by getting vaccinated.  Others get vaccinated to protect _themselves.  _


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## Dana (Apr 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> _"Others are willing to protect you by getting vaccinated?"   _LOL.  Amazing mind-reading talent.
> Others don't protect anyone else by getting vaccinated.  Others get vaccinated to protect _themselves.  _


*Just goes to show how little you know*


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## Alligatorob (Apr 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> Others don't protect anyone else by getting vaccinated


Look into this carefully.  I believe you may change your mind.


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## win231 (Apr 23, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> I don't think it is quite so simple.  If you get the vaccine you are less likely to contract and spread the virus to others.  So by getting it you positively impact not only your own health but the health of others.  So to some extent others' health is in your hands.  Statistically we are not yet sure how complete this protection is, but I believe it is clear that by getting the vaccine you are helping protect others.
> 
> As you and others here have said this is a personal choice, and it is a free county, I would not want anyone to be forced to get the vaccine.  However I would hope people carefully consider the good science behind this before deciding not to get one.  And to try and put the politics and media hype aside.  For some that will make it, quite understandably, a hard decision, I just hope most make the right one.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you aren't aware that the CDC has said the vaccine will not prevent transmission to others.  So, "Protecting Others" is not a valid reason to get the vaccine.


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## win231 (Apr 23, 2021)

Dana said:


> *Just goes to show how little you know*


It goes to show how little YOU know.  The CDC has already said the vaccine will not prevent transmission to others.
But don't let that stop you from feeling like a "Hero."


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## Dana (Apr 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> It goes to show how little YOU know.  The CDC has already said the vaccine will not prevent transmission to others.
> But don't let that stop you from feeling like a "Hero."


.
*Yes...I do feel like a hero, because I intend to do the right thing for myself and the rest of humanity. *_*Btw....please could you produce a link of what the CDC said bearing in mind, the CDC does not speak for every other medical body in the world.*_


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## Alligatorob (Apr 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> Perhaps you aren't aware that the CDC has said the vaccine will not prevent transmission to others.


This is what the CDC has said most recently:  "_A growing body of evidence suggests that fully vaccinated people are less likely to have asymptomatic infection and potentially less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others._"  see https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

Given where we are with this, the newness of it all and the careful way that the CDC and other scientifically based organizations move this is about as good as the evidence can be right now.  Please look more closely...

Science is never 100% certain of anything, we just have to follow the best evidence.


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## win231 (Apr 23, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> This is what the CDC has said most recently:  "_A growing body of evidence suggests that fully vaccinated people are less likely to have asymptomatic infection and potentially less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others._"  see https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
> 
> Given where we are with this, the newness of it all and the careful way that the CDC and other scientifically based organizations move this is about as good as the evidence can be right now.  Please look more closely...


A couple of weeks ago, it was _"The vaccine won't prevent transmission, but it may make your symptoms less severe."  _(same info with flu shots - after people complained about getting the flu despite flu shots).
Now, it's weasel words like, _"Potentially_" & _"Less Likely."_   And, _"You must continue to wear masks & keep social distance after you are vaccinated."_
Coincidence that yesterday & today's news reported less interest in the vaccine than previously.

Please look more closely.....


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## win231 (Apr 23, 2021)

Dana said:


> .
> *Yes...I do feel like a hero, because I intend to do the right thing for myself and the rest of humanity. *_*Btw....please could you produce a link of what the CDC said bearing in mind, the CDC does not speak for every other medical body in the world.*_


Whatever it takes to boost your ego is fine with me.


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## digifoss (Apr 23, 2021)

Dana said:


> .
> During a pandemic, no decision is "personal." If you live in a community you are playing a part in the preservation of that community ... therefore... if others are willing to protect you by getting vaccinated... You owe them a debt and that debt is to get vaccinated unless you are cleared not by your family doctor alone but an impartial examiner.
> .


Oh, I get it.  Perhaps waterboarding or a stiff prison sentence might be appropriate for those that don't get the shot, would that appease the vaxx masters ?  How would Octavian or Sulla have handled something as terrifying as independent thought?.


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## Jeweltea (Apr 23, 2021)

Lara said:


> Thank you digifoss. I know. Believe me when I said "it's a tough decision". My daughters don't want me to get it but acknowledge that it's my choice and will be there for me whatever it is.


Please listen to doctors and not anyone in a forum. It sounds like someone took the time to think of you.


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## ProTruckDriver (Apr 23, 2021)

@Dana, just a reminder. Do you remember when you posted this?


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## MarciKS (Apr 23, 2021)

LOL @ some of the strange ideas in here. Now the anti vaxxers owe us a debt?? HS! There's some total craziness going on anymore where this virus is concerned.


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## Dana (Apr 23, 2021)

.
*It is better to be driven by Ego... than to be paralysed by fear and cowardice (Dana)*
.


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## win231 (Apr 23, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> @Dana, just a reminder. Do you remember when you posted this?
> 
> View attachment 161503


LOL !!  Sorta like the 5 year old kid who tells his parents, _"I'm running away & you'll never see me again."  _
Then he shows up a few minutes later at dinnertime.


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## terry123 (Apr 23, 2021)

I asked my doctor about getting the Johnson shot since its just one but he advised me to get the 2 shot one.  I have a history of 3 brain aneurysms and for me I will get the 2 shots.  Don't need the complications of anymore blood clot issues.  This is what is good for me.  I would rather have the one shot but in my case the 2 shot is better.
I will continue to wear my mask if I get out or if anyone comes to my home.  I just feel better about it.  We have to all do what is best for ourselves and those we meet.


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## Dana (Apr 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> LOL !!  Sorta like the 5 year old kid who tells his parents, _"I'm running away & you'll never see me again."  _
> Then he shows up a few minutes later at dinnertime.





Remember this?  You two and Becky demanded a link which I produced and none of you apologised or even acknowledged you were wrong...so I guess we are now on even ground. Don't be afraid of me...I know you are terrified or you wouldn't care what I do ....I won't run over your toes just keep your feet outa the way   

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/...ccines-were-developed-in-record-time/13096682


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## Dana (Apr 23, 2021)

*Two very educational videos...I urge people to watch them. They give a good insight into how a pandemic travels across borders and how no one, no one or country is safe...*

Part 1





Part 2


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## Alligatorob (Apr 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> A couple of weeks ago, it was _"The vaccine won't prevent transmission, but it may make your symptoms less severe." _(same info with flu shots - after people complained about getting the flu despite flu shots).
> Now, it's weasel words like, _"Potentially_" & _"Less Likely."_ And, _"You must continue to wear masks & keep social distance after you are vaccinated."_
> Coincidence that yesterday & today's news reported less interest in the vaccine than previously.
> 
> Please look more closely.....


I have and I am not sure the two quotes are as contradictory as they appear (I could not find your wording in a CDC release, but I believe you).  
Most of the scientific evidence is telling us that people who are vaccinated are less likely to get the virus and if they get it they usually carry a lower viral load, which appears to result in less transmission.  Not completely prevent it, not to zero.  The epidemiological data is still emerging so the picture does change with time.

The choice is get the vaccine and most likely reduce the risk that you will get the virus and the risk that you will transmit it to others.  Not eliminate the risk for sure, but most likely reduce it.  And enough people have had the shots that we now know the risk of short term side effects are quite low, and there does not seem to be any evidence of longer term risks.  Or you can not get the shot and most likely increase risks for yourself and others.

As I said this is a personal decision, I don't think anyone should be required to get the vaccine.  I am just hoping that with enough knowledge most people will decide to get them.  In fact most people are, I would just like to see that percentage increase.


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## chic (Apr 24, 2021)

It's a moot point because the pause has been lifted.


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## Warrigal (Apr 24, 2021)

digifoss said:


> Oh, I get it.  Perhaps waterboarding or a stiff prison sentence might be appropriate for those that don't get the shot, would that appease the vaxx masters ?  How would Octavian or Sulla have handled something as terrifying as independent thought?.


Now you are just being absurd. 

Sulla and Octavian? Try to remain in the 21st century, not the 1st century BCE. 

Vaxx masters? Please clarify who you are referring to because as far as I am aware there are no such appointed officials anywhere in the world. We don't have them in Australia and they don't exist in America either. China? Maybe, but unlikely.


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## horseless carriage (Apr 24, 2021)

Next Thursday, my wife and I will be receiving our second AstraZeneca  vaccination. 
Not that I'm bothered one way or the other. I have my own secret weapon.


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## Mike (Apr 24, 2021)

Risks V Rewards, we keep reading about the very
very rare chance that you might get blood-clots
that could kill you, but that we should still take the
vaccine for the "greater good" of the population.

Now that they know about the clots, why are blood
tests not scheduled, say a week after the jab? I am
sure that it takes some time for the clots to block
your blood system and won't happen overnight on
the 13 one after the shot.

Also, we humans are selfish and we want the 0.00001%
to be somebody else, so forget the "greater good", the
people who refuse the vaccine are the really frightened
ones and maybe we should pity, rather than malign, them.

Mike.
P.S. I have had both jabs.


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## Dana (Apr 24, 2021)

digifoss said:


> Oh, I get it.  Perhaps waterboarding or a stiff prison sentence might be appropriate for those that don't get the shot, would that appease the vaxx masters ?  How would Octavian or Sulla have handled something as terrifying as independent thought?.


.


_So we’re going back to Roman times, well better know your history then. I’ll tell you what Sulla and Augustus (Octavian) would say. I can hear them screaming … "Get the vaccine, get the vaccine…or you will end up like us during the *Antonine Plague* which killed 10 million of our citizens and devastated the Roman army.”

_


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## Lara (Apr 24, 2021)

As a voice for the shamed, let me assure you that we all have our own story to tell and it's no business of anyone else's to assume why anyone has chosen the path they are on. My waiting was not out of fear, nor selfishness, nor any other judgmental accusations from the self-righteous. Shame on those who shame others. You don't know their reasons.

I used intelligent, thoughtful, and respectful reasoning for why I waited. I am basically self-quarantined, live alone now in a healthy unpopulated location with no airport, have an excellent immune system (my whole family does), never had flu shots, never had the flu, never put unnatural medicines in my body....with one exception...

I had a blood clot that traveled to both my lungs a decade ago, leaving me on death's doorstep. I'm also allergic to penicillin. I had to weigh the risks of that medical history killing me with a shot against the chances of me saving anyone else's life in this relatively unpopulated area. And I wanted to wait to get all the updates on these issues.

Some people are simply allergic to the ingredients in the shot. Please keep your shaming to yourselves. Like I said, shame on those who shame others. You don't know their story.


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## Warrigal (Apr 24, 2021)

Dana said:


> .
> 
> 
> _So we’re going back to Roman times, well better know your history then. I’ll tell you what Sulla and Augustus (Octavian) would say. I can hear them screaming … "Get the vaccine, get the vaccine…or you will end up like us during the *Antonine Plague* which killed 10 million of our citizens and devastated the Roman army.”
> ...


Since until recently more soldiers died of infections than of wounds I'm quite sure that the Roman generals would have welcomed antibiotics and vaccinations as gifts from Mars (the god, not the planet) and made them mandatory for all foot soldiers, archers and cavalry. If they are hypothetically offering advice from their graves then I think it might be wise to heed it but today war is not really the reason why mass vaccination is advisable. 

However, a nation that is weakened by an out of control pandemic, and the social and financial devastation that comes with it, is not in a good position to defend itself from invasion by an opportunistic enemy. A healthy population, especially the younger citizens, is needed to defend the homeland.


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## Alligatorob (Apr 24, 2021)

Lara said:


> I used intelligent, thoughtful, and respectful reasoning for why I waited. I am basically self-quarantined, live alone now in a healthy unpopulated location with no airport, have an excellent immune system (my whole family does), never had flu shots, never had the flu, never put unnatural medicines in my body....with one exception...
> 
> I had a blood clot that traveled to both my lungs a decade ago, leaving me on death's doorstep. I'm also allergic to penicillin. I had to weigh the risks of that medical history killing me with a shot against the chances of me saving anyone else's life in this relatively unpopulated area. And I wanted to wait to get all the updates on these issues.


No shaming intended here, I am just urging people to think about this carefully and make the decision based on good science and how it applies to their particular situation.  That doesn't mean everyone should get vaccinated, just more people than are now.  It sounds like you have given this rational thought and come to the right decision for yourself.  I can't argue with that.

This is an important issue, controlling the virus will both save lives and let us get back to normal with our economy and lives.  And since things are new and changing so quickly it takes more investigation and thought for many people than they are used to on such things.  

Shaming people either way will not help, we need rational unheated discussions about this.


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## Becky1951 (Apr 24, 2021)

Dana said:


> Remember this?  You two and Becky demanded a link which I produced and none of you apologised or even acknowledged you were wrong...so I guess we are now on even ground. Don't be afraid of me...I know you are terrified or you wouldn't care what I do ....I won't run over your toes just keep your feet outa the way
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/...ccines-were-developed-in-record-time/13096682


Demanded? No I asked if you had a link. Big difference. I've never expected a apology when I've posted a link that was asked for.


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## win231 (Apr 24, 2021)

Lara said:


> As an advocate for the shamed, let me assure you that we all have our own story to tell and it's no business of anyone else's to assume why anyone has chosen the path they are on. My waiting was not out of fear, nor selfishness, nor any other judgmental accusations from the self-righteous. Shame on those who shame others. You don't know their reasons.
> 
> I used intelligent, thoughtful, and respectful reasoning for why I waited. I am basically self-quarantined, live alone now in a healthy unpopulated location with no airport, have an excellent immune system (my whole family does), never had flu shots, never had the flu, never put unnatural medicines in my body....with one exception...
> 
> ...


I also had a bad reaction to penicillin several years ago.  Another reason I won't get the shot or any shot I consider unnecessary or risky.
Whoever doesn't like it knows what they can kiss.


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## win231 (Apr 24, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> No shaming intended here, I am just urging people to think about this carefully and make the decision based on good science and how it applies to their particular situation.  That doesn't mean everyone should get vaccinated, just more people than are now.  It sounds like you have given this rational thought and come to the right decision for yourself.  I can't argue with that.
> 
> This is an important issue, controlling the virus will both save lives and let us get back to normal with our economy and lives.  And since things are new and changing so quickly it takes more investigation and thought for many people than they are used to on such things.
> 
> Shaming people either way will not help, we need rational unheated discussions about this.


It's difficult to make a decision based on good science when there isn't much of it.


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## digifoss (Apr 24, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Now you are just being absurd.
> 
> Sulla and Octavian? Try to remain in the 21st century, not the 1st century BCE.
> 
> Vaxx masters? Please clarify who you are referring to because as far as I am aware there are no such appointed officials anywhere in the world. We don't have them in Australia and they don't exist in America either. China? Maybe, but unlikely.


I agree, yet absurdity calls for the absurd.

Who are the Vaxx masters ?  We don't have any real ones here in the U S, just wannabees, who I refer to here


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## digifoss (Apr 24, 2021)

Dana said:


> .
> 
> 
> _So we’re going back to Roman times, well better know your history then. I’ll tell you what Sulla and Augustus (Octavian) would say. I can hear them screaming … "Get the vaccine, get the vaccine…or you will end up like us during the *Antonine Plague* which killed 10 million of our citizens and devastated the Roman army.”
> ...



Why yes Dana, you are correct, they would have been real vaxx masters.  Soldiers who didn't fall in line for the vaccine would have been force-injected or decimated, citizens failing to be vaccinated would have been proscribed and exiled, or killed. No further worry about any of them spreading any virus around. Thanks for making my point for me, exactly.


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## SetWave (Apr 24, 2021)

Sheesh. Enough of this snipping and sniping. What are we, children???


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## horseless carriage (Apr 24, 2021)

SetWave said:


> Sheesh. Enough of this snipping and sniping. What are we, children???


This is precisely why politics are banned. There are so many threads, make that, the subject of threads, that I vehemently disagree with but rather than try to argue I find that it's best to ignore. After all, you can't have a quarrel in an empty room, mind you, I know some who could give it a good go.


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## MarciKS (Apr 24, 2021)

SetWave said:


> Sheesh. Enough of this snipping and sniping. What are we, children???


You might as well give up. I've already tried. They're just gonna keep on fighting unless the threads are locked. LOL


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## SetWave (Apr 24, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> You might as well give up. I've already tried. They're just gonna keep on fighting unless the threads are locked. LOL


So we shall stand back and watch the melee.


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## MarciKS (Apr 24, 2021)

SetWave said:


> So we shall stand back and watch the melee.


*cracks open a beer for you*


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## RadishRose (Apr 24, 2021)

I mean, covid and vaccinations​


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## saltydog (Apr 24, 2021)

win231 said:


> _"Others are willing to protect you by getting vaccinated?"   _LOL.  Amazing mind-reading talent.
> Others don't protect anyone else by getting vaccinated.  Others get vaccinated to protect _themselves.  _


Wearing facemasks protect others.  I believe the jury is still out on whether or not you can still contract the virus from a fully vaccinated person.


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## Irwin (Apr 24, 2021)

saltydog said:


> Wearing facemasks protect others.  I believe the jury is still out on whether or not you can still contract the virus from a fully vaccinated person.


The latest information is that it's extremely rare for someone who is vaccinated to catch covid and even more rare for them to spread it if they do catch it and even more rare than that for someone who has been vaccinated to catch it from a vaccinated person who caught covid, although there probably will be that one-in-300-million case where that happens and it will make front page headlines and people will say they're not going to get vaccinated because of it.


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## Lara (Apr 24, 2021)

I just got a Pfizer covid shot 4 hours ago (at Target of all places) and I have no symptoms so far. 
I think if you're going to have a reaction it happens within minutes.


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## digifoss (Apr 24, 2021)

Lara said:


> I just got a Pfizer covid shot 4 hours ago (at Target of all places) and I have no symptoms so far.
> I think if you're going to have a reaction it happens within minutes.


Thats great to hear Lara.  I'm sure you'll have no problems.


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## Dana (Apr 24, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> @Dana, just a reminder. Do you remember when you posted this?
> 
> View attachment 161503



*Well...just to set the record straight...I did have second thoughts about that statement...came back to remove it... but... the thread was already locked. 
The reason being, if I remove myself from those three topics, there is very little else to hold my interest, so onward and upward as they say *


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## digifoss (Apr 24, 2021)

saltydog said:


> Wearing facemasks protect others. ...


And I have some ocean front property right here in the New Mexico desert I'd like to interest you in....


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## MarciKS (Apr 24, 2021)

Lara said:


> I just got a Pfizer covid shot 4 hours ago (at Target of all places) and I have no symptoms so far.
> I think if you're going to have a reaction it happens within minutes.


Not always. Just keep an eye on things. My mom had a friend who had a stroke 30 hrs after her vaccine.


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## Warrigal (Apr 24, 2021)

win231 said:


> It's difficult to make a decision based on good science when there isn't much of it.


A problem faced by all of the sea captains who set out on voyages of discovery. They just had to rely on the known science of their time. Life is full of risk.


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## hollydolly (Apr 25, 2021)

Lara said:


> I just got a Pfizer covid shot 4 hours ago (at Target of all places) and I have no symptoms so far.
> I think if you're going to have a reaction it happens within minutes.


Lara.. with the Pfizer , the first is said to be problem free..it's the follow up that causes the problem (if there is to be any).

The Moderna is the opposite....


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## Mike (Apr 25, 2021)

I got the Pfizer vaccine, on both occasions I had a sore arm,
plus I felt very sleepy for a couple of days.

I hope that you don't get any symptoms Lara, many people
don't.

Mike.


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