# US is diversifying, white population shrinking



## Irwin (Aug 12, 2021)

The U.S. became more diverse and more urban over the past decade, and the non-Hispanic white population dropped for the first time on record, the Census Bureau said Thursday as it released a trove of demographic data that will be used to redraw the nation’s political maps.​​The share of the non-Hispanic white population fell from 63.7% in 2010 to 57.8% in 2020, the lowest on record, driven by falling birthrates among white women compared with Hispanic and Asian women. The number of non-Hispanic white people shrank from 196 million in 2010 to 191 million.​​https://apnews.com/article/census-2020-house-elections-4ee80e72846c151aa41a808b06d975ea​
Much of the recent Hispanic immigration is from Central American countries. People are fleeing the violence and poverty, some of which is the result of U.S. interventions in their elections and even deposing democratically elected leaders when they didn't prostrate to U.S. corporations (not to be confused with prostate, which when enlarged, causes men to spend an inordinate amount of time in the bathroom, and then they have a UroLift procedure that doesn't work. Or so I am told.).


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## Remy (Aug 12, 2021)

I'm in California so I think I've been the minority for awhile. In any case this land didn't start out white. It may bother some people but for me the population shift is a non issue. And I'm far from a social justice warrior type.


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## Pepper (Aug 12, 2021)

Irwin said:


> The share of the non-Hispanic white population fell from 63.7% in 2010 to 57.8% in 2020, the lowest on record,* driven by falling birthrates among white women*


White women not producing enough?  No more abortions for them!  They must sacrifice for the sake of their race!


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 12, 2021)

I’m not sure what this is but it certainly isn’t news.


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## Irwin (Aug 12, 2021)

I worry about the increase in the power of the church. Every country south of the U.S. border is highly religious, which is a major reason for their backward cultures, or their backward cultures make them highly religious. Either way, they're bringing those practices to the U.S. in large numbers. They don't practice responsible birth control or place a high value on education — not all, of course, but a significant portion of their population. That doesn't bode well for our country.


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## AnnieA (Aug 12, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I’m not sure what this is but it certainly isn’t news.



Agreed.  Think it's been 20+ years since we've known this and who cares, really?   Wish I could post pics of my cousin's beautiful, biracial kids.


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## AnnieA (Aug 12, 2021)

Pepper said:


> White women not producing enough?  No more abortions for them!  They must sacrifice for the sake of their race!



It's pre-pregnancy birth control; White women have the lowest per population rate of abortions when looking at Black, Hispanic and White.


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## Pepper (Aug 12, 2021)

Oy vay Annie give it a rest.  You did not understand I was being sarcastic.  If there's one subject I still know a lot about it's this one.  Thank you.


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## JimBob1952 (Aug 12, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I worry about the increase in the power of the church. Every country south of the U.S. border is highly religious, which is a major reason for their backward cultures, or their backward cultures make them highly religious. Either way, they're bringing those practices to the U.S. in large numbers. They don't practice responsible birth control or place a high value on education — not all, of course, but a significant portion of their population. That doesn't bode well for our country.



Highly offensive, bigoted comment.  Anti-Catholic but also anti-Latino.  

"Backward cultures?"  Really?  I would prefer expanded legal immigration, but most of the Latin immigrants I see work hard, stick together as families and stay out of trouble.  We could use a dose of their work ethic, and their family values wouldn't hurt either.


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## Alligatorob (Aug 12, 2021)

Irwin said:


> US is diversifying, white population shrinking​


I saw that in the news too, and it is interesting.  However as part of that shrinking white population I am not too concerned about this.  Throughout the history of the US we have absorbed all kinds of emigrants and I believe are a better place for it.  There was a time when people were worried about too many of my Irish ancestors moving in and taking over.  Instead we just became a part of the melting pot.  And I believe much of the reason we are the strongest and most successful country in the world (my opinion) has been this process.

What I do worry about, that is related, is population growth, just numbers.  I think we have enough people here, maybe too many, its getting too crowded.  That is the reason I believe we need to better control immigration.  The color, accent or religion of the folks who live here worries me not.  I enjoy the diversity of foods we have!


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## Gary O' (Aug 12, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> "Backward cultures?" Really? I would prefer expanded legal immigration, but most of the Latin immigrants I see work hard, stick together as families and stay out of trouble. We could use a dose of their work ethic, and their family values wouldn't hurt either.


Hear! Hear!

Heh, wonder how my family would be categorized
Hispanic, native American, black, caucasian, and who knows what else..... 



A portion of my relatives came up
Walked the desert at night
Worked jobs no others would take
Lived places no others would live
Became self-taught master carpenters
Built businesses
They are not the exception
I worked along side illegals in Houston and border towns
I consider myself a hard worker
I wish I worked as hard as they do

No, they’re not like the Europeans and Anglos that came over, wiping out, slaughtering whole peoples, my wife’s relatives.....
They just want a better life

Drug lords, smugglers? Get real.
There’s some, yes, promoted by, guess who?

Who do we think we are in this ‘free country’?

Give us your poor?

Best take that ol’ gal down while yer blowing bile


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## AnnieA (Aug 12, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Oy vay Annie give it a rest.  You did not understand I was being sarcastic.  If there's one subject I still know a lot about it's this one.  Thank you.



I know, but it the Catholics @Irwin is so concerned about are aborting as well.  I had no idea the Hispanic rate was more per %population than White women.  I already knew the Black figures because of reading from time to time through the years that some Black activists see their abortion rate as White promoted genocide.


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## Aneeda72 (Aug 12, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> I know, but it the Catholics @Irwin is so concerned about are aborting as well.  I had no idea the Hispanic rate was more per %population than White women.  I already knew the Black figures because of reading from time to time through the years that some Black activists see their abortion rate as White promoted genocide.


You only just now heard about the browning of America?  Where have you been?


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## AnnieA (Aug 12, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> You only just now heard about the browning of America?  Where have you been?



I've only known for 20+ (post #6) years ...so behind the times, lol.   The post you quoted was about Hispanic abortion rates being higher per capita than White.  That, I did not know.


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## Nathan (Aug 12, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Highly offensive, bigoted comment.  Anti-Catholic but also anti-Latino.


Although blunt, I don't think Irwin was expressing bigotry(OK Irwin, help me out here) or was being anti-Catholic or anti-Latino.  Certainly blunt .  Looking at the areas of the world that are predominately Catholic, it's easy to see that the populace are predominately *poor* and *uneducated *Hispanics.      It's a matter of debate as to whether there is a correlation between poverty stricken Hispanic populations, and the influence the Catholic Church has in these regions.  Corrupt governments play a role in this scene as well.



JimBob1952 said:


> I would prefer expanded legal immigration, but most of the Latin immigrants I see work hard, stick together as families and stay out of trouble.  We could use a dose of their work ethic, and their family values wouldn't hurt either.


Yes, agreed & agree wholeheartedly.


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## Mr. Ed (Aug 12, 2021)

I am white so what I am about say is said in humor and the ability to laugh at ourselves so don‘t take offense. 
step it all youse Crackers make love / make babies.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 12, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> I saw that in the news too, and it is interesting.  However as part of that shrinking white population I am not too concerned about this.  Throughout the history of the US we have absorbed all kinds of emigrants and I believe are a better place for it.  There was a time when people were worried about too many of my Irish ancestors moving in and taking over.  Instead we just became a part of the melting pot.  And I believe much of the reason we are the strongest and most successful country in the world (my opinion) has been this process.
> 
> What I do worry about, that is related, is population growth, just numbers.  I think we have enough people here, maybe too many, its getting too crowded.  That is the reason I believe we need to better control immigration.  The color, accent or religion of the folks who live here worries me not.  I enjoy the diversity of foods we have!


This sort of falls in line with my thoughts on immigration reform. Back when America was fairly new and most of the population was immigrants, the government sponsored farmland give-aways; you claim it, you own it, you farm it. Like, in exchange for a big piece of America, it's your family's job to help feed America. For immigrants who don't want to farm we need some sort of Work For The US program; free training in fields like technology, the sciences, blue-collar jobs....critical stuff. This would probably be cheaper than food stamps, free medical, welfare checks, and 10+ years of INS legal services.


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## Don M. (Aug 12, 2021)

There has been a "Latino" interests group called La Raza (the race) for several years, who claim that the entire SW portion of the U.S. was taken illegally from Mexico during the Mexican American war in the mid 1800's.  They refer to this region as Aztlan, and their goal is to return that region to Mexico.  Since such a move is politically unlikely, it appears that the next best method is to populate that area with enough Latino's such that Aztlan will become a "de facto" Mexican State.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/sea...5.png#id=1&iurl=https://i.pinimg.com/original


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## Nathan (Aug 12, 2021)

Don M. said:


> There has been a "Latino" interests group called La Raza (the race) for several years, who claim that the entire SW portion of the U.S. was taken illegally from Mexico during the Mexican American war in the mid 1800's.  They refer to this region as Aztlan, and their goal is to return that region to Mexico.  Since such a move is politically unlikely, it appears that the next best method is to populate that area with enough Latino's such that Aztlan will become a "de facto" Mexican State.
> 
> https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=aztlan+map&fr=yset_chr_syc_hp-s&type=hpsetv2Aug27&imgurl=https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/8a/68/d78a6819022b6f75cfd568b7c13c02b5.png#id=1&iurl=https://i.pinimg.com/original


Refer to:
"
The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (Spanish: Tratado de Guadalupe Hidalgo), officially titled the Treaty of Peace, Friendship, Limits and Settlement between the United States of America and the Mexican Republic, is the peace treaty that was signed on 2 February 1848, in the Villa de Guadalupe Hidalgo (now a neighborhood of Mexico City) between the United States and Mexico that ended the Mexican–American War (1846–1848). The treaty was ratified by the United States on 10 March and by Mexico on 19 May. The ratifications were exchanged on 30 May, and the treaty was proclaimed on 4 July 1848.

With the defeat of its army and the fall of its capital in September 1847, Mexico entered into negotiations with the U.S. peace envoy, Nicholas Trist, to end the war. On the Mexican side, there were factions that did not concede defeat or seek to engage in negotiations. The treaty called for the United States to pay US$15 million to Mexico and to pay off the claims of American citizens against Mexico up to US$5 million. It gave the United States the Rio Grande as a boundary for Texas, and gave the U.S. ownership of California and a large area comprising roughly half of New Mexico, most of Arizona, Nevada, Utah and Colorado. Mexicans in those annexed areas had the choice of relocating to within Mexico's new boundaries or receiving American citizenship with full civil rights.     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo

The U.S. Senate advised and consented to ratification of the treaty by a vote of 38–14.  The opponents of this treaty were led by the Whigs, who had opposed the war and rejected manifest destiny in general, and rejected this expansion in particular. The amount of land gained by the United States from Mexico was further increased as a result of the Gadsden Purchase of 1853, which ceded parts of present-day southern Arizona and New Mexico to the United States.
"


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## Irwin (Aug 12, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Although blunt, I don't think Irwin was expressing bigotry(OK Irwin, help me out here) or was being anti-Catholic or anti-Latino.  Certainly blunt .  Looking at the areas of the world that are predominately Catholic, it's easy to see that the populace are predominately *poor* and *uneducated *Hispanics.      It's a matter of debate as to whether there is a correlation between poverty stricken Hispanic populations, and the influence the Catholic Church has in these regions.  Corrupt governments play a role in this scene as well.



I had to check to make sure, but I didn't mention any specific religion, but now that you mention it, when you consider all the priests sexually abusing young boys and the Catholic church's support for Hitler, Franco, and Mussolini during WWII, well, that's not a good thing (to put it mildly    ). And then there was the Inquisition and the Dark Ages...

But I don't want to single out Catholics. Most religions have a sordid history. Strong belief in things that have no proof tend to make people do horrible things.


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## Nathan (Aug 12, 2021)

Irwin said:


> But I don't want to single out Catholics. Most religions have a sordid history. Strong belief in things that have no proof tend to make people do horrible things.


My view:  Although being Christian I do recognize the horrible things humans have done to other humans in the name of God.  That doesn't detract from the message Jesus intended to convey to the World, just reflects on the fallibility of people.


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## Irwin (Aug 12, 2021)

Don M. said:


> There has been a "Latino" interests group called La Raza (the race) for several years, who claim that the entire SW portion of the U.S. was taken illegally from Mexico during the Mexican American war in the mid 1800's.  They refer to this region as Aztlan, and their goal is to return that region to Mexico.  Since such a move is politically unlikely, it appears that the next best method is to populate that area with enough Latino's such that Aztlan will become a "de facto" Mexican State.
> 
> https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=aztlan+map&fr=yset_chr_syc_hp-s&type=hpsetv2Aug27&imgurl=https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/8a/68/d78a6819022b6f75cfd568b7c13c02b5.png#id=1&iurl=https://i.pinimg.com/original


I don't understand how Spanish Mexicans can lay claims to any land in the Americas since the Spanish subjugated the native American Aztecs in the 1500s and created Mexico as a Spanish colony. The U.S. simply took some of the land that the Spanish took from the Aztecs. That's what happens in war.


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## Irwin (Aug 12, 2021)

Nathan said:


> My view:  Although being Christian I do recognize the horrible things humans have done to other humans in the name of God.  That doesn't detract from the message Jesus intended to convey to the World, just reflects on the fallibility of people.


I'm still not convinced Jesus ever existed since there is no firsthand account of his life. I'm in the process of learning more about him and whether he was just created by the Romans in an attempt to pacify the Jewish people.


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## JimBob1952 (Aug 13, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I had to check to make sure, but I didn't mention any specific religion, but now that you mention it, when you consider all the priests sexually abusing young boys and the Catholic church's support for Hitler, Franco, and Mussolini during WWII, well, that's not a good thing (to put it mildly    ). And then there was the Inquisition and the Dark Ages...
> 
> But I don't want to single out Catholics. Most religions have a sordid history. Strong belief in things that have no proof tend to make people do horrible things.



Right.  And non-religious movements such as fascism and communism have even more sordid histories.  

Your analysis is about an inch deep.  Without Catholic monks preserving the knowledge of Greece and Rome, we never would have emerged from the "Dark Ages" (although there is a lot of debate right now as to whether there really were "Dark Ages". )  Concepts such as charity and respect for women are Judeo-Christian in origin.  I could go on, but why bother.


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## officerripley (Aug 13, 2021)

"Tribe follows tribe, and nation follows nation, like the waves of the sea. It is the order of nature, and regret is useless."
~~Seattle, Chief of the Suquamish Tribe, Washington Territory, U.S., 1854

I would add, after the word nature, "and reality".


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## AnnieA (Aug 13, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I'm still not convinced Jesus ever existed since there is no firsthand account of his life. I'm in the process of learning more about him and whether he was just created by the Romans in an attempt to pacify the Jewish people.



Jesus (a practicing Jew until his death) flew in the face of everything the group of Jewish people of his day that were opposed to Roman rule hoped for in a Messiah; that group hated his example of pacificism among other things.  Had Saul/Paul not come along (a fraudster imo), Jesus' followers would've likely remained a small, harmless Jewish sect.


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## fmdog44 (Aug 14, 2021)

Recall the Nazis would kidnap infants and children that had blonde hair and blue eyes from countries they captured and send them to Germany for institutions to raise as the "perfect Germanic specimens".


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## fuzzybuddy (Aug 14, 2021)

I'm not sure why white birth rates are so low. There may be a bunch of factors. But white birth rates are down across the globe. In every nation where whites are the most populous, they are aging out-having significant portions of their numbers, being seniors. I believe this has more to do with class and wealth than religious, or racial factors. I'm not sure, but I believe almost all birth rates are either in decline or slowing, which is probably good for the planet.


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## Pepper (Aug 14, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Recall the Nazis would kidnap infants and children that had blonde hair and blue eyes from countries they captured and send them to Germany for institutions to raise as the "perfect Germanic specimens".


You mean Lebensborn.

""Fount of Life") was an SS-initiated, state-supported, registered association in Nazi Germany with the goal of raising the birth rate of Aryan children of persons classified as 'racially pure' and 'healthy' based on Nazi racial hygiene and health ideology. Lebensborn provided welfare to its mostly unmarried mothers, encouraged anonymous births by unmarried women at their maternity homes, and mediated adoption of these children by likewise 'racially pure' and 'healthy' parents, particularly SS members and their families.....................At the Nuremberg Trials, much direct evidence was found of the kidnapping of children by Nazi Germany, across Greater Germany during the period 1939–1945."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn.


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## Mr. Ed (Aug 14, 2021)

Living backwardly? 
Consider social living conditions before we were born and compare the past conditions with present conditions.  Population increase and decrease reflects the security and hope of a given population. Mixed populations are greater in number than before. I wish I grew up in a close family structure as Mexican/Latino. 
I hear white people stopped being intimate with each other? Perhaps this is the reason for the decline of the white population?


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## Aneeda72 (Aug 14, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I'm not sure why white birth rates are so low. There may be a bunch of factors. But white birth rates are down across the globe. In every nation where whites are the most populous, they are aging out-having significant portions of their numbers, being seniors. I believe this has more to do with class and wealth than religious, or racial factors. I'm not sure, but I believe almost all birth rates are either in decline or slowing, which is probably good for the planet.


I believe it’s because women want a life, not a baby.


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## officerripley (Aug 14, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I believe it’s because women want a life, not a baby.


Reminds me of a quote I posted in another discussion:

"People are always saying you have your whole life ahead of you, but that's not true. If you're a woman, you need to set yourself up. You need to make your path before you get steamrolled by everything everyone expects you to do. Kids, house, all that sh*t."
~~from _Please See Us_ by Caitlin Mullen


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## fuzzybuddy (Aug 14, 2021)

I did see a TV show where a sociologist noted that white women tend to delay pregnancy for careers/college, while lower income women have more kids earlier, because their incomes aren't going to change by waiting- a minimum wage job is still going to be a minimum wage job. And lower  income women hope that their kids can escape poverty, even if they can't.


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## officerripley (Aug 15, 2021)

I think another thing that might be happening is that if one reason some people have kids is so that they'll possibly have someone to help them in their old age, some people no longer worry about that? As to why they wouldn't be worried about it, I have no idea. I can tell you right now, from what I'm starting to experience and what gals I've known have experienced, advice I would give to young gals is that if they're positive they don't want to have kids or adopt, then do not get married to or live with an alpha spouse. Because for an elderly woman, having willing and able kids is the only way you'll have an advocate to deal with a stubborn husband (or unfortunately in some cases, protection against an abusive husband). "No, Dad, you have to move! Mom can't handle those steps anymore!" or "No, Dad, if you don't stop, I'll move Mom in with us", etc. I know of one case where a grown son literally saved his Mom's life; it took him 12 hours of literally screaming arguing to get the old fart to agree to financial changes so the Mom could get her medicine.


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## Aneeda72 (Aug 15, 2021)

officerripley said:


> I think another thing that might be happening is that if one reason some people have kids is so that they'll possibly have someone to help them in their old age, some people no longer worry about that? As to why they wouldn't be worried about it, I have no idea. I can tell you right now, from what I'm starting to experience and what gals I've known have experienced, advice I would give to young gals is that if they're positive they don't want to have kids or adopt, then do not get married to or live with an alpha spouse. Because for an elderly woman, having willing and able kids is the only way you'll have an advocate to deal with a stubborn husband (or unfortunately in some cases, protection against an abusive husband). "No, Dad, you have to move! Mom can't handle those steps anymore!" or "No, Dad, if you don't stop, I'll move Mom in with us", etc. I know of one case where a grown son literally saved his Mom's life; it took him 12 hours of literally screaming arguing to get the old fart to agree to financial changes so the Mom could get her medicine.


You are so right.  I already said how my son finally had to come over and give my husband the elderly facts of life.  It’s a shame my son, and daughter, had to become involved in ensuring my safety, but there it is.


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## Nathan (Aug 15, 2021)

Mr. Ed said:


> I hear white people stopped being intimate with each other? Perhaps this is the reason for the decline of the white population?


The Jerry Springer show made ya want to swear-off people and just go be a hermit somewhere....


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## Don M. (Aug 15, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I believe it’s because women want a life, not a baby.


That's certainly a factor as more women seek higher education and a career, especially in developed nations....as opposed to staying home and tending children.  

Another factor, to the more "informed" people, is the increasing potential for major problems in the future....such as Climate Change.   As more people recognize the ramifications of such events, they become reluctant to subject their offspring to what could be a miserable life.


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## helenbacque (Aug 16, 2021)

Shhhhh.  What's that sound?  Mr. Gerrymander's pencil sharpener.


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## fuzzybuddy (Aug 17, 2021)

We don't need a bunch of kids to run the farm, anymore. Instead of being an economic asset, today, kids are a liability. People don't need to bang out 10-15 kids, due to high infant mortality.


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## carouselsilver (Aug 18, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> We don't need a bunch of kids to run the farm, anymore. Instead of being an economic asset, today, kids are a liability. People don't need to bang out 10-15 kids, due to high infant mortality.


Excellent point!


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## Irwin (Aug 18, 2021)

Speaking of white population shrinking, we're taking Afghanis out of Afghanistan in huge cargo planes, and many of them are coming here.


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## JimBob1952 (Aug 18, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Speaking of white population shrinking, we're taking Afghanis out of Afghanistan in huge cargo planes, and many of them are coming here.



I hope they do.  It's the least we can do for them.  We took in lots of Vietnamese and that worked out pretty well.


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## Alligatorob (Aug 18, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Speaking of white population shrinking, we're taking Afghanis out of Afghanistan in huge cargo planes, and many of them are coming here.


According to Wikipedia these are mostly white people:

_The majority of Afghan Americans may originate from any of the ethnic groups of Afghanistan, and are considered or perceived as White Americans but a small number identify themselves as Asian Americans_.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_Americans 

Not that it matters...


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## senior chef (Aug 18, 2021)

Nathan said:


> The Jerry Springer show made ya want to swear-off people and just go be a hermit somewhere....


I agree. I'm not a bit surprised at your reaction.  The Jerry Springer show is for morons.


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## senior chef (Aug 18, 2021)

And the white population is not only shrinking, it is rapidly becoming a minority.  
In July of this year Border Protection and Control arrested 200,000 Hispanics as they illegally entered the U.S. Heaven knows how many made it successfully.


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## Nathan (Aug 18, 2021)

> US is diversifying, white population shrinking



Well since the subject came up- is this a concern at all?   OK, 2 potential issues: race and cultural.   Are there concerns that "diluting" the white population is going to adversely impact the nation?


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## Alligatorob (Aug 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Hispanics


A lot of Hispanics are white.  Mostly Spanish or Portuguese or a Spanish or Portuguese - Native American mix (mistizo).  According to the Wikipedia article 65% of American Hispanics are white (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans).

White American is a hard term to define, it is not really a race or ethnic group.  According to Wikipedia if you count all who self-identify as white we are 72% of the population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans).  However if you narrow that definition to non-Hispanics of European origin the number gets smaller. 

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States for an interesting discussion of "whiteness" in the US.  As I originally said it doesn't matter much, but I do find it interesting.


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## senior chef (Aug 18, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Well since the subject came up- is this a concern at all?   OK, 2 potential issues: race and cultural.   *Are there concerns that "diluting" the white population is going to adversely impact the nation?*


Does it adversely impact the nation ? I suppose that depends upon where you live.  I live literally a stones throw from the southern border. The VAST majority of my city is Hispanic. At least 50% of the clerks at the stores do not understand English well enough to answer a very simple question. 2 years ago I went to Walmart to buy an ironing board. I asked  a clerk, who happened to be walking by, where are the ironing boards ? His answer ? "What are they used for ?" 
I asked a McDonalds cashier to give me a fish sandwich BUT without any 'sauce". That confused the hell out of her. She had to call the mgr.
Once, I got run over by a Hispanic who got caught without a pass on the light rail system. 2 transit cops were questioning him. When the train stopped , he knocked me over as he escaped. At age 75, I needed to go to the hospital.
Those types of things sure as **** are negatively impacting my life.


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## officerripley (Aug 18, 2021)

There are a lot of young Latinx people working in stores, my bank, etc. and they all treat me like royalty.


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## Alligatorob (Aug 18, 2021)

It takes time for immigrants who do not speak English well to learn our language, probably a generation.  However it is a process that has been going on here for hundreds of years, and has worked out pretty well so far.


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## Irwin (Aug 18, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Well since the subject came up- is this a concern at all?   OK, 2 potential issues: race and cultural.   Are there concerns that "diluting" the white population is going to adversely impact the nation?



Cultural differences are what have the biggest effect. When groups that are overly and overtly religious gain power, they often want to legislate their beliefs, and that's never good. We're witnessing that right now in Afghanistan.


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## Irwin (Aug 18, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> A lot of Hispanics are white.  Mostly Spanish or Portuguese or a Spanish or Portuguese - Native American mix (mistizo).  According to the Wikipedia article 65% of American Hispanics are white (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans).
> 
> White American is a hard term to define, it is not really a race or ethnic group.  According to Wikipedia if you count all who self-identify as white we are 72% of the population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans).  However if you narrow that definition to non-Hispanics of European origin the number gets smaller.
> 
> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States for an interesting discussion of "whiteness" in the US.  As I originally said it doesn't matter much, but I do find it interesting.



Hispanics from Spain and Hispanics from Central and South America are in different categories. Hispanics from Spain aren't considered an oppressed minority. Hispanics from the Americas are.

What happens when Hispanics from the Americas are no longer a minority in the U.S.? Will they be considered an oppressed majority?


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## Irwin (Aug 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Does it adversely impact the nation ? I suppose that depends upon where you live.  I live literally a stones throw from the southern border. The VAST majority of my city is Hispanic. At least 50% of the clerks at the stores do not understand English well enough to answer a very simple question. 2 years ago I went to Walmart to buy an ironing board. I asked  a clerk, who happened to be walking by, where are the ironing boards ? His answer ? "What are they used for ?"
> I asked a McDonalds cashier to give me a fish sandwich BUT without any 'sauce". That confused the hell out of her. She had to call the mgr.
> Once, I got run over by a Hispanic who got caught without a pass on the light rail system. 2 transit cops were questioning him. When the train stopped , he knocked me over as he escaped. At age 75, I needed to go to the hospital.
> Those types of things sure as **** are negatively impacting my life.



I moved to Houston back in 1978 from a small town in N.Y. My buddy and I went to a pizza place in Houston that was run by Orientals. I have no idea where they were from but they barely spoke English. 

So we went in and ordered a pizza pie with pepperoni, just like we always did up in N.Y. The Oriental guy working there told us, "We no serve pie." Understandably, we were confused, so we ordered again, but this time louder, thinking that might be helpful but again he told us, "We no serve pie." The third time, he just ignored us and we finally left without any food, totally confused.


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## Alligatorob (Aug 18, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Hispanics from Spain and Hispanics from Central and South America are in different categories. Hispanics from Spain aren't considered an oppressed minority. Hispanics from the Americas are.


An interesting question.  Do you think Hispanics from Latin America that are 100% European extract are really treated differently than those from Spain or Portugal directly?  Hispanic as we are using it is a hard thing to define.  

One definition used by some government agencies includes any one descended from a person living in a part of the US before it was acquired by the US from Spain or Mexico.  Under that definition I would qualify, my great great great (or so) grandfather was a resident of Pensacola when it was still a part of Spain, and when it was acquired by the US.  His name was Williams and I doubt he spoke much Spanish, but there he was.  Doesn't make me feel very Hispanic, but I guess I could claim to be.  Not that I wouldn't be proud to, but it just doesn't seem true.


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## Irwin (Aug 18, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> An interesting question.  Do you think Hispanics from Latin America that are 100% European extract are really treated differently than those from Spain or Portugal directly?  Hispanic as we are using it is a hard thing to define.
> 
> One definition used by some government agencies includes any one descended from a person living in a part of the US before it was acquired by the US from Spain or Mexico.  Under that definition I would qualify, my great great great (or so) grandfather was a resident of Pensacola when it was still a part of Spain, and when it was acquired by the US.  His name was Williams and I doubt he spoke much Spanish, but there he was.  Doesn't make me feel very Hispanic, but I guess I could claim to be.  Not that I wouldn't be proud to, but it just doesn't seem true.



I don't know. That poses the question: Can someone from Spain living in the U.S. claim to be an oppressed minority and benefit from affirmative action or other programs intended to help minorities? There's probably an answer somewhere on the interwebs, but I don't feel like looking.


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## Devi (Aug 18, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I moved to Houston back in 1978 from a small town in N.Y. My buddy and I went to a pizza place in Houston that was run by Orientals. I have no idea where they were from but they barely spoke English.
> 
> So we went in and ordered a pizza pie with pepperoni, just like we always did up in N.Y. The Oriental guy working there told us, "We no serve pie." Understandably, we were confused, so we ordered again, but this time louder, thinking that might be helpful but again he told us, "We no serve pie." The third time, he just ignored us and we finally left without any food, totally confused.


Okay. But in other states, pizzas are not referred to as "pizza *pies*" ... just as pizzas.


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## JimBob1952 (Aug 19, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> It takes time for immigrants who do not speak English well to learn our language, probably a generation.  However it is a process that has been going on here for hundreds of years, and has worked out pretty well so far.



I guess the issue would be that, with undocumented people coming in at the rate of 200,000 per month, the Hispanic/Latin population (I'm not going to say "Latinx" as it's a totally bogus word) might reach some sort of critical mass in which that language and culture predominate.  I'm sure that has already happened in some parts of the country.  So assimilation would not be possible;  it would be a matter of co-existence.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

Don M. said:


> There has been a "Latino" interests group called La Raza (the race) for several years, who claim that the entire SW portion of the U.S. was taken illegally from Mexico during the Mexican American war in the mid 1800's.  They refer to this region as Aztlan, and their goal is to return that region to Mexico.  Since such a move is politically unlikely, it appears that the next best method is to populate that area with enough Latino's such that Aztlan will become a "de facto" Mexican State.
> 
> https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=aztlan+map&fr=yset_chr_syc_hp-s&type=hpsetv2Aug27&imgurl=https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/8a/68/d78a6819022b6f75cfd568b7c13c02b5.png#id=1&iurl=https://i.pinimg.com/original


Caucasian is too hard to spell for many, more I’d think. But African American and Latino are new names for groups of people that we used to group using other, non-offensive (?) terms. So why has no one come up with a better word than “white” for what are mostly European descendants? C’mon, white is the color of snow and I’ve yet to see even an albino who’s that white. Anyone have any ideas? Not that it matters but in our politically correct, offend no one times we live in, I don’t always feel adequately described by the term “white”. It just sounds too vanilla to me!


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## Alligatorob (Aug 19, 2021)

"_claim that the entire SW portion of the U.S. was taken illegally from Mexico during the Mexican American war in the mid 1800's_"  It probably was, in fact if you look closely most all of the US has been taken by what we would call illegal means by today's standards.  Can't do much about that now, the statue of limitations has long run out.  Time to do the best with what we have.  

After all who gave those "Native Americans" the right to run off the sabre tooth tigers and wooly mammoths 20,000 years ago?  Fixing that one will take a lot of genetic engineering...


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## Devi (Aug 19, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> "_claim that the entire SW portion of the U.S. was taken illegally from Mexico during the Mexican American war in the mid 1800's_"  It probably was, in fact if you look closely most all of the US has been taken by what we would call illegal means by today's standards.  Can't do much about that now, the statue of limitations has long run out.  Time to do the best with what we have.


Yes, I've heard that before. Of course, all the Spanish names coming out of Mexico don't exactly sound Incan, Aztec, or from the other civilizations that were there before Spain arrived, now do they?


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## officerripley (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris P Bacon said:


> Caucasian is too hard to spell for many, more I’d think. But African American and Latino are new names for groups of people that we used to group using other, non-offensive (?) terms. So why has no one come up with a better word than “white” for what are mostly European descendants? C’mon, white is the color of snow and I’ve yet to see even an albino who’s that white. Anyone have any ideas? Not that it matters but in our politically correct, offend no one times we live in, _*I don’t always feel adequately described by the term “white”. *_It just sounds too vanilla to me!


Since I think all people should be called what they _want _to be called--thus me using the term "Latinx" above since I heard that's what some of them prefer--what term would you like?


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

officerripley said:


> Since I think all people should be called what they _want _to be called--thus me using the term "Latinx" above since I heard that's what some of them prefer--what term would you like?


Well, since you're asking, how about if you just call ME _human_? I'd also be pretty okay if that were a choice too on those forms where one must select their "race". I think that's why life is so hard, maybe. The human race is all caught up in the rat race!


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## officerripley (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris P Bacon said:


> Well, since you're asking, how about if you just call ME _human_? I'd also be pretty okay if that were a choice too on those forms where one must select their "race". I think that's why life is so hard, maybe._* The human race is all caught up in the rat race!*_


Homosapiens, at least since agriculture was invented and the relatively egalitarian hunter/gatherer way of life was left behind, pretty much always been caught up in the rat race; therefore the efforts to try to make things more equal again, efforts which can indeed make life seem hard. Ah, but be careful: finding everything hard can either be a sign that things have been too easy for you before or that you're just getting too old to change. And as with other situations, you yourself can decide that you'll make an effort to learn to get used to or live with situations you find too hard or give up; only you can decide that.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

That seems like too many words to think about. I think I'll stick with human and rat races. Thanks though for sharing your knowledge. The prefix, "homo" has kind of gotten a bum rap over the years though. Thanks again, fellow earth person!


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## Della (Aug 19, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I did see a TV show where a sociologist noted that white women tend to delay pregnancy for careers/college, while lower income women have more kids earlier, because their incomes aren't going to change by waiting- a minimum wage job is still going to be a minimum wage job. And lower income women hope that their kids can escape poverty, even if they can't.


The lower income woman's wages may stay the same but her costs are going to increase with every child and her kids aren't going to escape poverty if she can't put them through college.  I was a minimum wage mother and could see that if I was having trouble paying for one child's food, clothing, school fees etc, having a new baby to provide for wouldn't help.  I was married again by the time he was ready for college, but it still took almost my entire income to put him through school.  Fortunately my husband earned enough as a USAF sgt to pay for our rent and food for four years while I did that. 


Chris P Bacon said:


> Well, since you're asking, how about if you just call ME _human_?


I agree.  I think we wont be able to stop our race problems until we quit dividing people according to "race."  Discussions like this only point out how unscientific and pointless our definitions of each race are. In reality almost all of us are, "mixed race" unless we are pure African.  The last I heard from anthropologists that's where humans started and people just changed color to suit the climate as they moved north, west and east. So if American's are "browning" so be it.  Less skin cancer among the blue-whites such as myself.


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## officerripley (Aug 19, 2021)

Della said:


> The lower income woman's wages may stay the same but her costs are going to increase with every child and her kids aren't going to escape poverty if she can't put them through college.  I was a minimum wage mother and could see that if I was having trouble paying for one child's food, clothing, school fees etc, having a new baby to provide for wouldn't help.  I was married again by the time he was ready for college, but it still took almost my entire income to put him through school.  Fortunately my husband earned enough as a USAF sgt to pay for our rent and food for four years while I did that.
> 
> I agree.  *I think we wont be able to stop our race problems until we quit dividing people according to "race."  Discussions like this only point out how unscientific and pointless our definitions of each race are.* In reality almost all of us are, "mixed race" unless we are pure African.  The last I heard from anthropologists that's where humans started and people just changed color to suit the climate as they moved north, west and east. So if American's are "browning" so be it.  Less skin cancer among the blue-whites such as myself.


" *I think we wont be able to stop our race problems until we quit dividing people according to "race."  Discussions like this only point out how unscientific and pointless our definitions of each race are."* I do agree with that. Unfortunately, it isn't just us "ordinary, everyday" citizen who should quit dividing  people according to race, it's those in power, not just those who have been elected but the non-famous who are in power--either they or their representatives are in attendance at Davos every year--who will keep doing it since it keeps them in power. Even those who are not in power but would like to be or approve of those who are in power. For example, I was talking to someone who works in the financial industry a few years back and he made a comment about how the global stock market was doing (not well at that point) and how what fixes things with the stock market is when the U.S., the "first world", and the northern European countries are more in control. So there you go again with that dog whistling of how important "race" is.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

officerripley said:


> " *I think we wont be able to stop our race problems until we quit dividing people according to "race."  Discussions like this only point out how unscientific and pointless our definitions of each race are."* I do agree with that. Unfortunately, it isn't just us "ordinary, everyday" citizen who should quit dividing  people according to race, it's those in power, not just those who have been elected but the non-famous who are in power--either they or their representatives are in attendance at Davos every year--who will keep doing it since it keeps them in power. Even those who are not in power but would like to be or approve of those who are in power. For example, I was talking to someone who works in the financial industry a few years back and he made a comment about how the global stock market was doing (not well at that point) and how what fixes things with the stock market is when the U.S., the "first world", and the northern European countries are more in control. So there you go again with that dog whistling of how important "race" is.


I'ma start up a new thing, 4th world countries. We can all be human and we can all getta long. You wanna be a part of such a world or you wanna be apart from such a world? Your choice cuz you're welcome to do either. I'm doing what I can to make a better world even if it's only in my imagination. What about the second worlds? Who or where are they? I hear all time about first world this, third world that but second world never gets a mention. What's up with that? Semantics and pedantics, will they ever get along?


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## JimBob1952 (Aug 19, 2021)

officerripley said:


> Since I think all people should be called what they _want _to be called--thus me using the term "Latinx" above since I heard that's what some of them prefer--what term would you like?



"Latinx" is not a real word.  Spanish is a gendered language.  And Hispanic people don't buy into "Latinx."  It's a woke term used by the media and college professors.  

This is from a Pew Research study:  

"While some Hispanics say Latinx should be used as a pan-ethnic term, few say they prefer it over others. A majority (61%) say they prefer Hispanic to describe the Hispanic or Latino population in the U.S., and 29% say they prefer Latino. Meanwhile, just 4% say they prefer Latinx to describe the Hispanic or Latino population."

In fact, only about one in four Hispanics have even heard of the word Latinx. 

http://hispanicad.com/sites/default/files/phgmd_2020.08.11_latinx_final.pdf


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## Della (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris P Bacon said:


> I'ma start up a new thing, 4th world countries. We can all be human and we can all getta long. You wanna be a part of such a world or you wanna be apart from such a world?


I'm in!  When I went for my Covid shot they gave me a form to fill out and under the race question I checked "unknown," which must have bewildered the nurse because as I said, I am blue-white.


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## JimBob1952 (Aug 19, 2021)

officerripley said:


> " *I think we wont be able to stop our race problems until we quit dividing people according to "race."  Discussions like this only point out how unscientific and pointless our definitions of each race are."* I do agree with that. Unfortunately, it isn't just us "ordinary, everyday" citizen who should quit dividing  people according to race, it's those in power, not just those who have been elected but the non-famous who are in power--either they or their representatives are in attendance at Davos every year--who will keep doing it since it keeps them in power. Even those who are not in power but would like to be or approve of those who are in power. For example, I was talking to someone who works in the financial industry a few years back and he made a comment about how the global stock market was doing (not well at that point) and how what fixes things with the stock market is when the U.S., the "first world", and the northern European countries are more in control. So there you go again with that dog whistling of how important "race" is.




If that were true, why do global corporations (the Davos people) talk incessantly about the importance of diversity?  Why are companies like Microsoft run by "people of color?"  Why have Asian companies like Alibaba and Tencent and Taiwan Semiconductor and Samsung been so successful in global markets?


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## officerripley (Aug 19, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> If that were true, why do global corporations (the Davos people) talk incessantly about the importance of diversity?  Why are companies like Microsoft run by "people of color?"  Why have Asian companies like Alibaba and Tencent and Taiwan Semiconductor and Samsung been so successful in global markets?


Talking the talk isn't the same as walking the walk.


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## officerripley (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris P Bacon said:


> I'ma start up a new thing, 4th world countries. We can all be human and we can all getta long. You wanna be a part of such a world or you wanna be apart from such a world? Your choice cuz you're welcome to do either. I'm doing what I can to make a better world even if it's only in my imagination. *What about the second worlds? Who or where are they?* I hear all time about first world this, third world that but second world never gets a mention. What's up with that? Semantics and pedantics, will they ever get along?


Ask a rich person; they know. (Of course, you most likely won't get a straight answer out of them, but they know.)


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

A rainbow has a lot of colors in it but I don't think that brown, black or white are in one. 

 But  I don't know people that are any colors that match these!


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

officerripley said:


> Ask a rich person; they know. (Of course, you most likely won't get a straight answer out of them, but they know.)


A rich person? I'm a rich person myself but that depends on how one defines "riches". Were you speaking of money? Then there are many "rich" people of many ethnicities. Which "rich" ethnic person would you think best to ask?


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## JimBob1952 (Aug 19, 2021)

officerripley said:


> Talking the talk isn't the same as walking the walk.



"Talking the talk?"  Asians play a hugely disproportionate role in the global tech industry (and in finance, pharmaceuticals and many other sectors.)  How did the supposedly racist business community let such a thing happen?

Your comments would indicate that you don't know anything at all about business.  Maybe I'm wrong and you're a venture capitalist with an undergraduate engineering degree and a Stanford MBA.  But I don't think so.


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## JimBob1952 (Aug 19, 2021)

officerripley said:


> Ask a rich person; they know. (Of course, you most likely won't get a straight answer out of them, but they know.)





Chris P Bacon said:


> I'ma start up a new thing, 4th world countries. We can all be human and we can all getta long. You wanna be a part of such a world or you wanna be apart from such a world? Your choice cuz you're welcome to do either. I'm doing what I can to make a better world even if it's only in my imagination. What about the second worlds? Who or where are they? I hear all time about first world this, third world that but second world never gets a mention. What's up with that? Semantics and pedantics, will they ever get along?



The "second world" used to refer to Communist countries.  I don't know if the term is in use since the breakup of the USSR and the "capitalization" of China and Vietnam.  

Investors refer to less-developed countries, "emerging markets" and "frontier economies."


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> "Talking the talk?"  Asians play a hugely disproportionate role in the global tech industry (and in finance, pharmaceuticals and many other sectors.)  How did the supposedly racist business community let such a thing happen?
> 
> Your comments would indicate that you don't know anything at all about business.  Maybe I'm wrong and you're a venture capitalist with an undergraduate engineering degree and a Stanford MBA.  But I don't think so.


It seems racist, yeah, I know already but I couldn't resist putting in another 2¢ worth, so here goes.

Yes, Asians talk the talk, even if it is in a language that we Americans, (or *USA'ins* might be more proper because South and Central Americans exist too and North America includes Canadians and Mexicans, so there's a need for new verbiage, or is there really?) Back to my point, Asians talk the "talk" but Asian's also "wok the wok"! Bad humor, I know and not all Asiatic peoples use woks to cook with. Some Russians are Asian as well as other nationalities. The world just is too complicated for such a simple mind as mine! I'm just doing what I can to comfort the disturbed and to disturb the overly comfortable.


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## senior chef (Aug 19, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> "_claim that the entire SW portion of the U.S. was taken illegally from Mexico during the Mexican American war in the mid 1800's_"  It probably was, in fact if you look closely most all of the US has been taken by what we would call illegal means by today's standards.  Can't do much about that now, the statue of limitations has long run out.  Time to do the best with what we have.


The only group that can claim "ownership" of America are Native Americans. Mexican's and others who claim that the U.S. illegally took the S.W. portion of America from Mexico need to stop and consider that the Spanish stole that same land from Native Americans.


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## JimBob1952 (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris P Bacon said:


> It seems racist, yeah, I know already but I couldn't resist putting in another 2¢ worth, so here goes.
> 
> Yes, Asians talk the talk, even if it is in a language that we Americans, (or *USA'ins* might be more proper because South and Central Americans exist too and North America includes Canadians and Mexicans, so there's a need for new verbiage, or is there really?) Back to my point, Asians talk the "talk" but Asian's also "wok the wok"! Bad humor, I know and not all Asiatic peoples use woks to cook with. Some Russians are Asian as well as other nationalities. The world just is too complicated for such a simple mind as mine! I'm just doing what I can to comfort the disturbed and to disturb the overly comfortable.



I thought we were supposed to call people by the names they want to be called.  I want to be called an American.  U.S. Citizen will do fine as well.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> I thought we were supposed to call people by the names they want to be called.  I want to be called an American.  U.S. Citizen will do fine as well.


Canadians are "Americans" too though, dot'cha see? North Americans. Brazilians are Americans too, SOUTH Americans. How about if we're gonna call each other names, we use the ones our parents chose for us or ones we chose because we liked them better, once we grew up or at least once we aged. Not everyone grows up I guess. Thanks for the input, U.S. Citizen! Or do you prefer JimBob1952 or just plain ol' American? Maybe some combination of the lot?


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## fuzzybuddy (Aug 19, 2021)

Della said:


> The lower income woman's wages may stay the same but her costs are going to increase with every child and her kids aren't going to escape poverty if she can't put them through college.  I was a minimum wage mother .  I was married again by the time he was ready for college, but it still took almost my entire income to put him through school.  Fortunately my husband earned enough as a USAF sgt to pay for our rent and food for four years while I did that.


Exactly, If you were a minimum wage worker with kids, and DID NOT MARRY to get a second income, your children would have not been able to go to college. You would still be able to get only minimum wage jobs, and the cycle of poverty would continue for another generation. BTW, this is not a racial problem.  This is a class/economic problem, which affects minimum wage women, unmarried with children,  regardless of race.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

What if colleges were abolished and knowledge/education was freely dispensed? It doesn't, after all, guarantee a life without problems by just obtaining a degree and foisting tremendous debt upon so many. So why is such a premium placed upon a degree? If I start my own waste disposal business, without first having a college degree, will I be less successful than a competitor who has one? And the men who do the trash collecting for my company, were I to start one, do they really need college degrees to make a living wage working on or operating a refuse truck? What if we eliminated or worked to try to eliminate the greediness that seems to permeate the society. If we all were just a little bit kinder to one another and a little more trusting of those who are trustworthy, would that maybe make at least some difference in the world we all live in? What about entrepeneurship? Or imagination? It doesn't take a college degree to imagine a better world but a little imagination or ingenuity might help to bring that about. Maybe not in my lifetime but maybe it could at least begin to happen in my lifetime.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

I think that a Teddy Bear factory could have some potential. A Fuzzy Buddy for every set of arms, to have, to hold and to hug!


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## Alligatorob (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris P Bacon said:


> So why is such a premium placed upon a degree?


I agree it should not be.  What matters most is how well a person fits and performs in a position.  

However it is considered because it's a lot easier for someone or especially a bureaucracy to see that someone has some learning.  Not fool proof by any means, but easy.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

@Alligatorob    But since all of us are already "here" can't we find positions for all of us and fit everyone in somehow? Education is exclusive, life should be inclusive. But that's just my opinion. Easy isn't always the answer. Especially if it hasn't worked so far.


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## Devi (Aug 19, 2021)

On the other hand, if you wanted to build bridges or something of the sort, you'd certainly need a good deal of schooling for that.

Ya wanna be a lawyer? Go to college.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

What college did the very first bridge builders or lawyers attend? And how much were they charged to study there? When and why did learning become so expensive? Who instructed the first instructors? My thought would be that they merely declared themselves "learned" and began persuading people to believe that this was true. Then they persuaded them further that knowledge should be paid for. I have no desire to become a lawyer or have any career at all at this stage of my game. But I do wish that life could be a little more hospitable to us all and at no cost to any of us other than our personal efforts and time.


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## Devi (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris P Bacon said:


> But I do wish that life could be a little more hospitable to us all and at no cost to any of us other than our personal efforts and time.


So you're saying that, if you needed schooling, you'd want someone else to provide it (knowledge, teaching, etc.) on their own time and their own dime to you for free?


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## senior chef (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris P Bacon said:


> *Canadians are "Americans" too though, dot'cha see? North Americans. Brazilians are Americans too, SOUTH Americans. *



*I strongly disagree. The ONLY group of people who can call themselves Americans are those who are citizens of The United States of America. The rest are NORTH or SOUTH Americans.*


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## Don M. (Aug 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> *I strongly disagree. The ONLY group of people who can call themselves Americans are those who are citizens of The United States of America. The rest are NORTH or SOUTH Americans.*



Don't forget the millions who seem to prefer being called "African Americans".


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> *I strongly disagree. The ONLY group of people who can call themselves Americans are those who are citizens of The United States of America. The rest are NORTH or SOUTH Americans.*


Believe what you will then. I can't force you to be right, nor would I try.


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## senior chef (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris P Bacon said:


> Believe what you will then. I can't force you to be right, nor would I try.


It would be a mighty strange situation if a Brazilian, who flew into Europe, identified himself to French immigration, as an American. I seriously doubt that French immigration would accept that.
Moreover, those Mexicans who travel back and forth across the U.S. border, identify themselves as Mexicans. NOT AMERICANS ! Same is true of Canadians who cross our northern border.
Finally, only citizens of The United States of America are Americans. No other country has as part of its name ...AMERICA.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

I spent the winter in South America. They don't call them selves "Americans" per se but there is an undercurrent of resentment that their continent gets such little recognition as does Los Estados Unidos. (That's Spanish for The United States, which is what they call your "America". Notice that America isn't a part of the phrase. Maybe that's intentional?) But as I said, I can't force you to be right. You believe what you will but the truth doesn't care what you believe. The truth is the truth, irregardless.


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## Alligatorob (Aug 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I strongly disagree. The ONLY group of people who can call themselves Americans are those who are citizens of The United States of America. The rest are NORTH or SOUTH Americans.


Not sure I agree with that, but we do suffer a bit as a country with no unique name of our own...  

When the US formed the declaration of independence read: "_The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America_".  Note that the word united was not capitalized, United States of America only became our formal name later.  The term was originally used to identify the states that were declaring independence, not as a name or the name of a country. The states didn't seem to want a unique name, they thought of themselves as Virginians or New Yorkers who came together for the purpose of overthrowing the British.   

Since no one really owns it I think Canadians or Chileans or anyone in the Americas has as much right to the name as we do.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

You may not be sure but I kind of get the feeling that you don't agree. So be it. As I said, the truth doesn't depend on your agreement or mine either. The truth is the truth no matter what you or I decide it may be in our personal view. Maybe we can just agree to disagree and let it go at that, eh? I can write that this country is called The Looney Bin Alliance Of States. That doesn't make it so. And the declaration of independence is not binding upon any other country EXCEPT Los Estados Unidos. Love ya Buddy but I don't love where this is headed! Gracias!


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## senior chef (Aug 19, 2021)

I have lived in Mexico for almost 10 years now. In my neighborhood, I'm referred to as "El Americano". See ? Even Mexicans know exactly who is and is not Americans. It may be politically correct to attempt to take the name "American" and toss it in the garbage can. America haters !  No matter what anyone says, I'm still proud to be American.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

Call yourself what you like. I'll add American to your list of preferred pronouns. I don't know who is or is not an America hater. I certainly am not one but just from reading your statements I don't think that anyone would confuse you as being tolerant of any beliefs that are not your own. America, land of the free and the home of the arrogant.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

Devi said:


> So you're saying that, if you needed schooling, you'd want someone else to provide it (knowledge, teaching, etc.) on their own time and their own dime to you for free?


No, I believe that that's what you wrote just above this that I'm writing now.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Don't forget the millions who seem to prefer being called "African Americans".


What else can they call themselves? They have no way to know which African country their ancestors were from.


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## ohioboy (Aug 19, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Not sure I agree with that, but we do suffer a bit as a country with no unique name of our own...
> 
> When the US formed the declaration of independence read: "_The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America_".  Note that the word united was not capitalized, United States of America only became our formal name later.


True, but in Jefferson's draft the U was capitalized. It was either toned down by the Congress or the transcriber did it.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

The United part, that's important although to an outsider I doubt that we look anything even remotely resembling unity. And the States, that's pretty important too even if, at the time the DOI was written and declared, we only had 13 of them. I wonder if our country had stayed smaller, would there still be such division and animosity between so many? No real way to know but an interesting thought, to me. And I don't think that I've ever felt that I suffered because I heard someone leave the America part off when they spoke of my country. I myself often refer to my home country merely as "The States". I've never considered that to be disrespectful. I've also not stood at attention before when I heard the SSB played as the TV staion was shutting down for the night! But I'm not advising that anyone else follow my example. If they do, why, we might have full on anarchy in no time!


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## JimBob1952 (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris P Bacon said:


> What college did the very first bridge builders or lawyers attend? And how much were they charged to study there? When and why did learning become so expensive? Who instructed the first instructors? My thought would be that they merely declared themselves "learned" and began persuading people to believe that this was true. Then they persuaded them further that knowledge should be paid for. I have no desire to become a lawyer or have any career at all at this stage of my game. But I do wish that life could be a little more hospitable to us all and at no cost to any of us other than our personal efforts and time.



You might be right.  But the next time I need open heart surgery, I hope you'll forgive me if I pick someone who's got an MD and is board-certified.  Silly me.


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## Chris P Bacon (Aug 19, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> You might be right.  But the next time I need open heart surgery, I hope you'll forgive me if I pick someone who's got an MD and is board-certified.  Silly me.


No worries, mate. You could choose an MD or a MXYZ, all the same to me. In the meantime though, maybe you might not need to pick anyone like that. You just might be living a charmed life and not even know it! I love you!   3 hearts are better than 1!


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## Butterfly (Aug 20, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> I guess the issue would be that, with undocumented people coming in at the rate of 200,000 per month, the Hispanic/Latin population (I'm not going to say "Latinx" as it's a totally bogus word) might reach some sort of critical mass in which that language and culture predominate.  I'm sure that has already happened in some parts of the country.  So assimilation would not be possible;  it would be a matter of co-existence.


I'm in New Mexico, and the two cultures co-exist and in many cases sort of merge, and many things are bilingual, but there is no sign of Hispanic culture or language predominating.  Things of each culture assimilate into the other and the rough edges kind of wear off.   Sometimes the first generation only speaks Spanish and more closely follows the culture of their homeland, but that is almost never true of the second generation and beyond


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