# Dr Seuss books to stop publishing



## mellowyellow (Mar 2, 2021)

Dr. Seuss Enterprises said it made the decision after taking feedback from audiences.
AP: Steven Senne

_Six Dr Seuss books including* And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street* and *If I Ran the Zoo *will stop being published because of racist and insensitive imagery. There has been increasing criticism in recent years over the depiction of black and Asian people. "Dr Seuss Enterprises listened and took feedback from our audiences including teachers, academics and specialists in the field as part of our review process," it said. "We then worked with a panel of experts, including educators, to review our catalogue of titles."_


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## mellowyellow (Mar 2, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> View attachment 152875
> Dr. Seuss Enterprises said it made the decision after taking feedback from audiences.
> AP: Steven Senne
> 
> _Six Dr Seuss books including* And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street* and *If I Ran the Zoo *will stop being published because of racist and insensitive imagery. There has been increasing criticism in recent years over the depiction of black and Asian people. "Dr Seuss Enterprises listened and took feedback from our audiences including teachers, academics and specialists in the field as part of our review process," it said. "We then worked with a panel of experts, including educators, to review our catalogue of titles."_


Darn shame IMO


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## aMused (Mar 2, 2021)

I remember seeing racism in some of his adult cartoon illustrations but I had to re-examine the books they’re removing from publication to understand where the imagery in question was. I read a lot of Dr. Seuss when I was little but the books they are removing were not among my favorites, in fact a few of them I had never even read.
His best books are still in publication and he has quite a catalog so I doubt they will be missed by any but collectors.
I suppose the books they will no longer publish will become collector’s items.


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## chic (Mar 2, 2021)

It's a shame. How can people ever learn from the mistakes of the past and improve themselves if we continually erase that past because it may offend somebody.


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## Pepper (Mar 2, 2021)

chic said:


> It's a shame. How can people ever learn from the mistakes of the past and improve themselves if we continually erase that past because it may offend somebody.


The somebodies being offended are very, very young children who don't need subconscious racial images in their little developing brains.  They of course don't know they're being offended against, but a black character from Africa wearing a grass skirt is not a good image to leave rotting in a young kid's head.

Explaining why something is wrong, or offensive, or stereotypical of a certain era is for older kids than the audience that usually sees them.


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## aMused (Mar 2, 2021)

chic said:


> It's a shame. How can people ever learn from the mistakes of the past and improve themselves if we continually erase that past because it may offend somebody.


I don’t see it as erasing the past. Once upon a time postcards like these were commonplace.
Racist Postcards
Eventually people realized how awful they were and they simply stopped making them. But the history that they existed is still easy to find, explore and learn from. It will be the same with these books. They simply won’t publish them any more. But it’s not as if the ones that were already published won’t exist. People will still own, collect and archive the existing books. And Seuss still has many childrens’ books in publication that don’t have racist elements. Not only that but think of all the childrens’ books over the years that never got republished because they were dated and better things had been written since. Nobody is speaking up about the history that is being lost because Dick and Jane books are no longer published.
I think that lamenting the removal of racist things for the sake of “learning from our mistakes” is a misplaced sentiment. That’s what history is for. Nothing is being erased, we are actually living the lesson of learning from our mistakes when we place these things in their proper context and remove them from our daily experience where it has the subtle effect of normalizing racist attitudes.


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## terry123 (Mar 3, 2021)

I read those books to my kids and nobody thought about any of that at the time.  We just thought they were silly, fun books.  This P.C. stuff has gotten way out of hand.


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## ProTruckDriver (Mar 3, 2021)

terry123 said:


> This P.C. stuff has gotten way out of hand.


This is only the beginning, a lot more to come.


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## Fyrefox (Mar 3, 2021)

As long as they continue to publish "Fox in Socks," I am  content...


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## Lewkat (Mar 3, 2021)

The more attention drawn to this situation the worse racism becomes.  From childhood on, I never even thought of race.  People were just people.  Then when I was stationed down south, what an eye opener that was.  Being a Yankee, who knew there were rules everywhere you turned?  I was thrown out of a department store in Montgomery, Alabama because I drank from the wrong water fountain back in 1954.  Good grief, I was hot and thirsty.  I wish folks would get over this nonsense.  Did not the Civil Rights Movement mean anything at all?


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## Giantsfan1954 (Mar 3, 2021)

This is absolute BS!!!!!!


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## Happy Joe (Mar 3, 2021)

I have looked on the internet ('though I have not yet tried to download the books in question), however I have yet to see any quotes or reproductions of the so called "offensive" pictures or phrases...
Are we all just expected to take their word for it, or anything? (...not that they, mainstream media and cancel culture advocates, have any credibility, IMO).
I will treat this as OPINION (fake) news/propaganda, until I see FACTS/excerpts.

Sgt. Joe Friday was correct: "Just the facts, Mam".

"Question everything!... especially so called authorities."  ... From my rebellious phase, growing up.

Enjoy!


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## Sunny (Mar 3, 2021)

I gather that the offensive material is the art work, not the rhymes themselves.  So, would it be a legal violation to republish the books with non-offensive art work replacing the original?  After all, they remake old movies.


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## Ceege (Mar 3, 2021)

We don't want children at an important age of learning to learn from a book written for their age group that racism/bigotry is acceptable in _any_ form.  This is a country where the majority of Americans want equality for every American.  And treating some less than others, even in a children's book, isn't fair to the children reading them.  Whether they are in the group that is being demeaned or not.  It's just not a lesson we want our children to learn. 

It's not about erasing the past.  It's about teaching good values that will help our country move forward for equality and diversity.


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## JustBonee (Mar 3, 2021)

Have seen or read almost every Dr. Seuss  book out there  ....   They encourage reading for younger children. 
Studying the pictures for flaws in drawing of characters  is what  parents must do,  not the kids.   
Someone is missing the point.
Aren't  ALL  characters in Dr. Seuss books made to look strange  so they can follow the theme of the funny stories?


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## RadishRose (Mar 3, 2021)

I never saw racism in a Dr. Seuss book. I don't understand this.


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## Happy Joe (Mar 3, 2021)

I just examined "If I ran the Zoo" and found only 2 artworks (and I was looking pretty hard) that might, possibly, be considered offensive by a few (they would, likely, have been considered humourous when the book was first published).. 
https://archive.org/details/ifiranzoo0000seus_x9d1
Cancelling the book is the wrong thing to do, IMO, making a few minor changes in the artwork would be a better editorial decision.  (make the black stereo types (one illustration found) white and make the slanted eyes round (one illustration found)).
I say let the parents  decide if they want children to have access to this book; as is...and let them decide whether or not to purchase it.
What children have access to is the responsibility of their parents, IMO... not some third party group that has no public responsibility or accountability.

IMO; This is a prime example of a few people going overboard on PC power trips ... nothing really important here.

Just remember Mickey Mouse is black, So is Minnie... no need to correct him/her.

Enjoy!


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## JustBonee (Mar 3, 2021)

Happy Joe said:


> *Just remember Mickey Mouse is black, So is Minnie... no need to correct him/her.*
> 
> Enjoy!



Oh, just wait ....   there are people who will find plenty wrong with them..   it's pathetic


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## rgp (Mar 3, 2021)

Giantsfan1954 said:


> This is absolute BS!!!!!!




  Boy is it ever !!!!!!!!!


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## fmdog44 (Mar 3, 2021)

Hitler, Mao and Stalin operated under the same principal. Burn all old television programs that did not include minorities. Burn all novels that did not include minorities. Strip all citizens of the diplomas earned if they attended schools that were all white. DO NOT ban rap music that includes words of murder, rape and drugs.


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## Jules (Mar 3, 2021)

Bonnie said:


> Aren't ALL characters in Dr. Seuss books made to look strange so they can follow the theme of the funny stories?



As I understand it, the Seuss publishing company decided it pull the books.  What’s it doing for the demand for their books?


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## terry123 (Mar 3, 2021)

When I read the books to my kids we considered them cartoon type books and did not take them seriously. I see no reason for me to change my mind about them.  Never thought about race or anything else.  They were just entertainment and were forgotten about until they were read again at bedtime.  We read  their favorites, said their prayers and said good night.  To the kids they were just colorful stick figures.  Never gave them a second thought.


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## oldman (Mar 3, 2021)

I understand that Disneyworld is considering doing away with their Cat in the Hat theme area. Well, that’s cancel culture for you. What did Dr. Seuss ever do to anyone, except entertain children? Gimme’ a break


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## Ceege (Mar 3, 2021)

"Dr. Seuss is a phenomenal author and illustrator. Dr. Seuss has a racist past. Both can be true. Both are true." 

https://adayinourshoes.com/was-dr-s...er&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=SocialSnap via @dontIEPalone


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## Buckeye (Mar 3, 2021)

Am I the only one that thinks it is odd that Dr Seuss is offensive and should have some of his books banned, yet the song of the year is WAP?


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## ohioboy (Mar 3, 2021)

Here is a PRIME example of racism/racist view. We all remember the Landmark Supreme Court decision of the interracial marriage case of Loving v. Virginia in 1967 where they struck down the VA law. Here is an excerpt from the VA trial Judge's decision upholding the miscegenation law.

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."


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## IrisSenior (Mar 3, 2021)

I feel bad. Growing up I never thought about stuff that could be racist as I didn't know what being racist was. So now that I am older and understand it better; it is like I need to change my whole way of thinking so I am not. I do think books and siblings and parents and relatives were racist and this is reflected on me and my siblings when we were growing up. 

Bear with me.

Does this mean that those who don't think Dr Seuss's books should be banned (because of the artwork) mean that they are racist? I am not trying to offend anyone but please correct me if I am wrong.


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## StarSong (Mar 3, 2021)

I'm in favor of ditching books aimed at young children if they have racist overtones or promote hurtful stereotypes.  
Presumably Seuss's publisher considered revamping some of the illustrations and opted against it.


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## Dana (Mar 3, 2021)

_I think we are forgetting who banned these books. This was done by Dr Seuss Enterprises themselves…apparently they have been thinking about it for years. As a professional in the field of psychology, I feel they have done the right thing.

Research shows that even at the age of three, children begin to form racial biases through the actions of family members and propaganda through books. By the age of seven, those biases become fixed.

The world is hopefully changing into a more accepting place. Children need to see people who look like them, shown in a positive light, not in a deprecating way._

.


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## peramangkelder (Mar 3, 2021)

Enid Blyton's 'Noddy' books were taken out of print because of Golly the Golliwog
I love Dr Seuss 'Green Eggs And Ham' and 'The Cat In The Hat'
These are all stories for the young or the young at heart and should be kept as their writers intended
All this nonsense and all the while kids are playing video games which make these children's books very tame indeed


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## debrakay (Mar 3, 2021)

What a confused, mixed-up, awful world we live in when it's okay for young children to be reading books and being taught about transgenderism, lesbianism, homosexuality and other ******/genders issues but it is not okay to have a Dr. Seuss book because of the cartoon pictures? 
LGBT Activists Promote 'Trans Reading Day' in Public Schools (dailysignal.com)


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## Dana (Mar 3, 2021)

debrakay said:


> What a confused, mixed-up, awful world we live in when it's okay for young children to be reading books and being taught about transgenderism, lesbianism, homosexuality and other ******/genders issues but it is not okay to have a Dr. Seuss book because of the cartoon pictures?
> LGBT Activists Promote 'Trans Reading Day' in Public Schools (dailysignal.com)



_I disagree with you most emphatically. In my mind, we do not live in a mixed up world. We are for the first time in history learning to live in a world that accepts people for who they are. _


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## Tish (Mar 3, 2021)

Such a shame.


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## Ceege (Mar 3, 2021)

It all comes down to what kind of world we want to live in.  If we want peace, we have to strive for equality and value diversity.  We can't change people when they can't be anything other than who they are.  We can't expect people to pay taxes without giving them full rights.  

In the Quaker religion, everyone is believed to be equal.  Regardless of gender, age, race, nationality, religion, or ****** preference.  So, it _can_ be taught. Just as racism and bigotry can be taught.


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## MrPants (Mar 3, 2021)

Along the same lines, I'm sad they took the image of Aunt Jemima of the pancake & pancake syrup products. I get it that this image goes back to the days of slavery but for the love of God, did anyone here ever connect that image with white dominance and slavery? I've been looking at that smiling black lady's face for decades and the only thing it's ever evoked in me is the feeling of a meal made with love at home from quality ingredients. I for one will miss her image on that box of pancake mix.
Same thing with this Dr. Seuss nonsense. Good Lord! These panels of 'People With Nothing Better To Do' need to loosen their sphincters a little.


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## JustBonee (Mar 4, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> Am I the only one that thinks it is odd that Dr Seuss is offensive and should have some of his books banned, yet the song of the year is WAP?


Sick isn't it?   ... no one is censoring the music industry ??


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## Sunny (Mar 4, 2021)

StarSong said:


> I'm in favor of ditching books aimed at young children if they have racist overtones or promote hurtful stereotypes.
> Presumably Seuss's publisher considered revamping some of the illustrations and opted against it.


What a shame. I wonder why the publishers made that decision. So the world should be deprived of these  hilarious poems (many of them making a good moral point) because of a few offensive illustrations considered funny nearly a century ago?  Why not just redo the art work?

What will probably happen is that the books will become collectors' items, and gain in value.

He's also being accused of antisemitism. Well, here is one of his political cartoons.  The only reference to antisemitism I've been able to find so far is that fact that some of the Sneetches have stars on their bellies, which somebody thinks represent Mogen Davids (Jewish stars), and others don't, and they fight a war over it.  Pretty feeble attempt to prove antisemitism, if that's all there is. (P.S. The Sneetch stars have 5 points. A Mogen David has 6.)


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## Pepper (Mar 4, 2021)

Here I go being picky again, @Sunny.  Forgive me in advance, please!
M*a*gen David, Shield of David, is the Star and M*o*gen David is that wine.

Schtickler, that's me.


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## Sunny (Mar 4, 2021)

Beg pardon, you are right.


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## fmdog44 (Mar 4, 2021)

Isn't the underlying principal of this country to accept all peoples of *all *races? So why now do certain people declare is it unconstitutional to acknowledge we don't all look alike?


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## rgp (Mar 4, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Hitler, Mao and Stalin operated under the same principal. Burn all old television programs that did not include minorities. Burn all novels that did not include minorities. Strip all citizens of the diplomas earned if they attended schools that were all white. DO NOT ban rap music that includes words of murder, rape and drugs.



 What's next , Kristallnacht ?


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## StarSong (Mar 4, 2021)

First of all, these are not among Dr. Suess's finest or most popular works.  Nevertheless, I'm surprised that the publisher didn't get editing permission from the Seuss family to newly illustrate offensive drawings.  

I did some sleuthing and found an online PDF copy of "If I Ran the Zoo" and copied this image. All other depictions of humans in the book (at least as far as I read) were straightforward and very Seuss-like (picture the children in "Cat in the Hat"). You can see that the Africans are indeed characterized in an unflattering manner. 

Presumably the other books have drawing depicting equally detestable racial stereotypes.


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## Pepper (Mar 4, 2021)

That illustration is pretty bad @StarSong!


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## Ceege (Mar 4, 2021)

Acknowledging respect for all people doesn't insult  or harm _you _in any way. But, it lifts up those that you respect and puts more respect for you in _their_ hearts. I will never understand those who choose to live with hatred in their hearts just because everyone isn't white, or straight, or Christian. Hate eats at the soul.


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## StarSong (Mar 4, 2021)

Pepper said:


> That illustration is pretty bad @StarSong!


That's what I thought, too.  Sure explains their decision.


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## debrakay (Mar 4, 2021)

It's very strange these days that when a person disagrees with another person the word "hate" ends up in the conversation.  Of course this also leads to the words racism, bias, narrowmindedness, inequality, etc. of which no unification will happen when the name calling begins. Anyone who automatically states that another person is filled with hate over a comment that they disagree with, need to take a long look at themselves first as to where the hate is actually festering.

Young children in should never be subjected to and forced to read and hear about books regarding sex choices and sexuality. This whole issue of censorship of the Dr. Seuss books came from the supposed adults, at the detriment of the children, who enjoyed the books without ever thinking of anything racist in them, because young children are not racists.  The adults are.


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## debrakay (Mar 4, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Isn't the underlying principal of this country to accept all peoples of *all *races? So why now do certain people declare is it unconstitutional to acknowledge we don't all look alike?


I recently read that God created one race which is the human race.  Men are the ones who then divided the human race into color categories and of course when men get their hands on things much comes to ruin.


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 4, 2021)

IMO poor old Dr. Suess was a man of his time that did more good than bad.

I can understand quietly dropping some of his content that is no longer relevant/appropriate but I can't understand the need to vilify his work and make it a divisive headline news story.

Sometimes I honestly believe that there are foreign and domestic mischief makers behind the scenes dredging up these things in an effort to keep the American people divided along racial lines.


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## debrakay (Mar 4, 2021)

Dana said:


> _I disagree with you most emphatically. In my mind, we do not live in a mixed up world. We are for the first time in history learning to live in a world that accepts people for who they are. _


Sex and sexuality issues have no place in front of the eyes and into the ears of young children in their schools.  Adult acceptances should not be placed on the young in the classrooms, ever. I am happy for you that your world is perfect. I see the world as an evil place unfortunately getting worse by the day.  I have hope that more of the lost souls will be saved before this world is over.  
Mark 4:23 - If anyone has ears to hear, let them hear."


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## Sunny (Mar 4, 2021)

debrakay said:


> What a confused, mixed-up, awful world we live in when it's okay for young children to be reading books and being taught about transgenderism, lesbianism, homosexuality and other ******/genders issues but it is not okay to have a Dr. Seuss book because of the cartoon pictures?
> LGBT Activists Promote 'Trans Reading Day' in Public Schools (dailysignal.com)


Debra, The Daily Signal is a right-wing publication of The Heritage Foundation. It's political.

And the emphasis on "God created," etc. is offensive to many of us who do not share your religious beliefs. Some of us believe in evolution.

And even people who are not particularly supporters of the transgender movement are not necessarily Christian conservatives. Why conflate the two? Must everything on earth be polarized into two ways of thinking? Sometimes it's more complicated than that.

And I really don't see what this subject has to do with Dr. Seuss and his possibly racist illustrations, anyway. Why the abrupt change of subject?


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## debodun (Mar 4, 2021)

Disney productions were infamous for that. People can read anything into anything that they want to.


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## StarSong (Mar 4, 2021)

debrakay said:


> because young children are not racists. The adults are.


Young children learn racism and hatred from adults. Images like the one I copied (above) from Seuss's book have no place in children's literature, regardless how revered the author may have been, because they teach children how to look at the world. 

Why would I give my grandchildren a book that contains images that deeply offends others or casts certain races in a terrible light? What a spectacularly unloving act that would be.


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## Pepper (Mar 4, 2021)

And why should black kids be victimized and humiliated with these old caricatures?  Would anyone here want to be pictured as ignorant, with a bone through your nose and acting "like a savage."  That is a horrible burden to place on a black kid, made to feel bad about themselves.

ENOUGH of that!  ENOUGH of racial stereotyping black children!


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## Irwin (Mar 4, 2021)

I'm actually kind of surprised they didn't stop publishing those books decades ago. Did it just occur to them that this might be offensive to some people? 

I remember watching cartoons back in the '70s like Bugs Bunny that depicted Africans like this, and they also had stereotypical Japanese, Arabs, Native Americans... I don't think they should be banned, but any publisher with even a modicum of integrity should refuse to publish them for anything other than historical value.


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## StarSong (Mar 4, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Did it just occur to them that this might be offensive to *some* people?


It should be offensive to ALL people!


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## debrakay (Mar 4, 2021)

Pepper said:


> And why should black kids be victimized and humiliated with these old caricatures?  Would anyone here want to be pictured as ignorant, with a bone through your nose and acting "like a savage."  That is a horrible burden to place on a black kid, made to feel bad about themselves.
> 
> ENOUGH of that!  ENOUGH of racial stereotyping black children!


Children should never be stereotyped, victimized or humiliated for the color or their skin or family traditions.  What is your response to the white children of today being stereotyped, victimized and humiliated for being white skinned and/or Christian? The current "Stop being so white" campaign and the "Cancel Culture" campaign.  I am not trying to be confrontational but looking for honest answers. When is it enough for one group of people and not enough for another group of people?  When do we stop blaming and start fixing what is broken?


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## Pepper (Mar 4, 2021)

For the wealthier, white, Christian majority to be complaining is ludicrous.  They won the game by being born just the way they are.  So, relax and concentrate on being successful and not being an opioid addict.


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## StarSong (Mar 4, 2021)

99.99999% (perhaps more) of White Americans have no idea what it is like to be stereotyped, victimized or humiliated for their race.  
Gimme a break. 

We were born on 3rd base with a strong lead for home and brag that we hit a standup triple.


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## Pepper (Mar 4, 2021)

I love baseball analogies @StarSong.  Make that sports in general.


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## Gardenlover (Mar 4, 2021)

So if you're born white, just throw in the towel? Abuse is abuse - it's not bound by color, race, sex, etc.


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## Pepper (Mar 4, 2021)

Gardenlover said:


> So if you born white, just throw in the towel? Abuse is abuse.


I thought you were misunderstanding, and now I'm sure.  Unfortunately, I'm in the midst of something, and must ring off for awhile.

No one need throw in the towel unless it's their decision to do so.  'Night.


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## Gardenlover (Mar 4, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I thought you were misunderstanding, and now I'm sure.  Unfortunately, I'm in the midst of something, and must ring off for awhile.
> 
> No one need throw in the towel unless it's their decision to do so.  'Night.


Equal treatment of *all* people.


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## Sunny (Mar 4, 2021)

I wonder if this analogy applies. Our local football team was known as the Washington Redskins for years. Apparently, some people, maybe Native Americans, maybe not, were offended. (I personally never realized until then that the term "Redskin" was offensive.)  The controversy went on for years, and finally they changed the name, to The Washington Football Team.

My point is, they didn;t throw out the entire team. They just changed the part that was offensive. So, why not just change the illustrations and be done with it?  I think the main value of Dr. Seuss's books are in the story lines and the funny rhyming writing style. As far as I know, there is nothing offensive in those things. So why not just leave them, let future generations of kids enjoy them, and get rid of those awful pictures?


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## Gardenlover (Mar 4, 2021)

I totally agree that many people groups have been treated horrendously.


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## Dana (Mar 4, 2021)

debrakay said:


> Sex and sexuality issues have no place in front of the eyes and into the ears of young children in their schools.  Adult acceptances should not be placed on the young in the classrooms, ever. I am happy for you that your world is perfect. I see the world as an evil place unfortunately getting worse by the day.  I have hope that more of the lost souls will be saved before this world is over.
> Mark 4:23 - If anyone has ears to hear, let them hear."



_If parents do not teach their children about sex and sexuality, then they will learn about it from somewhere else in a detrimental way. I see school as a good place to take up the slack when parents fail to do their job.. Parents have a choice not to send their children to any school that teaches them how to navigate life but this to me is paramount to mental child a_buse.

_I am sorry you see the world as “an evil place” … my world like everyone else’s is not “perfect” as you suggest, but I am grateful I have the capacity to accept changes in society, the insight to know that nothing remains the same and to be intellectually endowed to deal with these changes._

_If you are going to quote from the Bible, please also contemplate these verses:_

*Romans 2:11* 
_
For God shows no partiality.
_
*Luke 6:37* 
_
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

*Matthew 10:40* 
_
_“Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me._


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## Shalimar (Mar 5, 2021)

peramangkelder said:


> Enid Blyton's 'Noddy' books were taken out of print because of Golly the Golliwog
> I love Dr Seuss 'Green Eggs And Ham' and 'The Cat In The Hat'
> These are all stories for the young or the young at heart and should be kept as their writers intended
> All this nonsense and all the while kids are playing video games which make these children's books very tame indeed


I strongly disagree. Small children lack the capacity to make informed decisions around race. They can internalize prejudice without even realizing it.


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## Shalimar (Mar 5, 2021)

Dana said:


> _If parents do not teach their children about sex and sexuality, then they will learn about it from somewhere else in a detrimental way. I see school as a good place to take up the slack when parents fail to do their job.. Parents have a choice not to send their children to any school that teaches them how to navigate life but this to me is paramount to mental child a_buse.
> 
> _I am sorry you see the world as “an evil place” … my world like everyone else’s is not “perfect” as you suggest, but I am grateful I have the capacity to accept changes in society, the insight to know that nothing remains the same and to be intellectually endowed to deal with these changes.
> 
> ...


QFT.


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## J.B Books (Mar 5, 2021)

StarSong said:


> 99.99999% (perhaps more) of White Americans have no idea what it is like to be stereotyped, victimized or humiliated for their race.
> Gimme a break.
> 
> We were born on 3rd base with a strong lead for home and brag that we hit a standup triple.


99.999999% really?
Sure people of color have been/are stereotyped, victimized, etc.

But to say that others have not been stereotyped, victimized, etc. is not accurate.

Italians, Irish, Jews, have all experienced that in the past. The Italians were treated like trash in the mid 1800's -mid 1900's
Stereo types prevail today.
My wife will not allow HBO in our house because they ran "The Sopranos".
Oh I forgot....that's not a stereo type, right?


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## StarSong (Mar 5, 2021)

J.B Books said:


> 99.999999% really?
> Sure people of color have been/are stereotyped, victimized, etc.
> 
> But to say that others have not been stereotyped, victimized, etc. is not accurate.
> ...


You're correct, it was an exaggeration.  I will correct my statement.  Virtually all White Christian Americans younger than 90 have not experienced ugly stereotyping and racism on the order of what Blacks, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, Native Americans, Asians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, and other Non-White, non-Christians have gone through.  Particularly not in the last 60 years.  

My (Italian) father was subject to bigotry and job discrimination pre WWII, but it disappeared almost completely by the early 1950s. I never personally felt the sting of that bigotry. 

p.s. I watched The Sopranos and found it hilarious. When I saw that the name of Tony's boat was "Stugots", I nearly wet my pants because I was laughing so hard. So many insider jokes.


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## J.B Books (Mar 5, 2021)

StarSong said:


> You're correct, it was an exaggeration.  I will correct my statement.  Virtually all White Christian Americans younger than 90 have not experienced ugly stereotyping and racism on the order of what Blacks, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, Native Americans, Asians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, and other Non-White, non-Christians have gone through.  Particularly not in the last 60 years.
> 
> My (Italian) father was subject to bigotry and job discrimination pre WWII, but it disappeared almost completely by the early 1950s. I never personally felt the sting of that bigotry.
> 
> p.s. I watched The Sopranos and found it hilarious. When I saw that the name of Tony's boat was "Stugots", I nearly wet my pants because I was laughing so hard. So many insider jokes.


OK

So now you were admittingly laughing at a cultural/ethnic stereotype because you were OK with that.

So what I need to know from you now is, what ethnic stereotypes or OK and which ones are not.


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## StarSong (Mar 5, 2021)

J.B Books said:


> OK
> 
> So now you were admittingly laughing at a cultural/ethnic stereotype because you were OK with that.
> 
> So what I need to know from you now is, what ethnic stereotypes or OK and which ones are not.


I laughed at the many "in jokes" in The Sopranos that were directed at Italian Americans or people who closely associated with them.  

Italian Americans are _NOT_ an ethnic group suffering the brunt of racism, bigotry, or ugly stereotyping. Please stop reaching for something that isn't there.


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## Sunny (Mar 5, 2021)

One "in" joke that I always laughed at in The Sopranos was Tony's car horn or the doorbell, I forget which, that played the tune from The Godfather.  I don't have a drop of Italian blood, but that always cracked me up. I don't remember anything in that show that was prejudiced against Italians.  If it was critical of anything, it was gangsters. And it was humorously critical a lot of the time.  The "bad guys" in that show were nowhere near as evil as the drug cartel in Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul,


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## Packerjohn (Mar 5, 2021)

I read a lot of Dr. Seuss when I had my kids.  They never killed, murdered nor rapped anyone.  Neither did I.  The crazy politically correct have nothing else do do.  Why is the young generation so afraid.  Perhaps its their music or perhaps those crazy movies they watch all day on the not so smartphone?  Banning good books for kids is just a bunch of BS.  Time to "Get A Life."


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## J.B Books (Mar 5, 2021)

StarSong said:


> I laughed at the many "in jokes" in The Sopranos that were directed at Italian Americans or people who closely associated with them.
> 
> Italian Americans are _NOT_ an ethnic group suffering the brunt of racism, bigotry, or ugly stereotyping. Please stop reaching for something that isn't there.


The point I was trying to make is that stereo types are everywhere and we now have the PC police telling us what is acceptable and what is not based on their interpretation. And I beg to differ about your  Italian American comment. It may be any ethnic group for that matter, at one time and still sometimes now, they are victims of stereo typing. It's OK to have  stereo type on this group but not that group. It's time for people to lighten up and not look for ways to be insulted and it's also time for people to know what hurts.


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## J.B Books (Mar 5, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> I read a lot of Dr. Seuss when I had my kids.  They never killed, murdered nor rapped anyone.  Neither did I.  The crazy politically correct have nothing else do do.  Why is the young generation so afraid.  Perhaps its their music or perhaps those crazy movies they watch all day on the not so smartphone?  Banning good books for kids is just a bunch of BS.  Time to "Get A Life."


So imagine a world that has Cardi. B's W.A.P as *song of the year* .( Please do a search for the lyrics as I cannot print them here)
And Dr. Seuss is inappropriate.
My. Potato head is offensive.
Disney slaps a content warning on the Muppet show..


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## Serenity4321 (Mar 5, 2021)

chic said:


> It's a shame. How can people ever learn from the mistakes of the past and improve themselves if we continually erase that past because it may offend somebody.


chic...I could not agree more..I am so opposed to all the bans, cancels, in the name of  being PC. I even dislike when they change names of streets or buildings ...leave the originals and honor the person somewhere new..


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## Serenity4321 (Mar 5, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> Am I the only one that thinks it is odd that Dr Seuss is offensive and should have some of his books banned, yet the song of the year is WAP?


..I do not remember anythong offensive about DrSeuss... but then it has been many years since I read them!


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## Pepper (Mar 5, 2021)

Well.  When you're in the majority side it's a cave-in to "PC."  When you're in the minority side it's "Thank god, you're finally listening."  Perception.

Met people who are angry with PC because now they can't publicly say the "N" word anymore. Whatever happened to free speech? they whine.  It's my god given right to humiliate people.  Isn't it?


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## StarSong (Mar 5, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Well. When you're in the majority side it's a cave-in to "PC." When you're in the minority side it's "Thank god, you're finally listening." Perception.


Exactly.


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## Serenity4321 (Mar 5, 2021)

Ceege said:


> "Dr. Seuss is a phenomenal author and illustrator. Dr. Seuss has a racist past. Both can be true. Both are true."
> 
> https://adayinourshoes.com/was-dr-s...er&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=SocialSnap via @dontIEPalone





Pepper said:


> Well.  When you're in the majority side it's a cave-in to "PC."  When you're in the minority side it's "Thank god, you're finally listening."  Perception.
> 
> Met people who are angry with PC because now they can't publicly say the "N" word anymore. Whatever happened to free speech? they whine.  It's my god given right to humiliate people.  Isn't it?


*WOW I just read some of the blatent nastiness  that I was never aware of..I can see why so many are upset now...the family was right to stop publishing *


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## Pepper (Mar 5, 2021)

Explain @Serenity4321


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## Pepper (Mar 5, 2021)

We're talking six books out of 60.  Wonderful books, wonderful writing & illustration.  Clever and fun. If he were alive today, he would change the few mistakes he honestly, without malice, made decades ago.  He would know my 2.5 year old grandson is reading him right now in his class.  That's real young, real impressionable.  

It is no big deal to remove certain things.  The 6 of 60 books are not being outlawed.  No book burnings and please no hysteria.


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## Pepper (Mar 5, 2021)

*


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## Serenity4321 (Mar 5, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Explain @Serenity4321
> 
> 
> View attachment 153388


Pepper...My familiarity was with just a few of Seuss books..like Cat in the Hat, Sam I Am,  Green Eggs and Ham..I never saw blatent racism. bigotry until I went to a link someone here posted...I couldn't find anything on the attachment you included ..so I am not sure I am answering your question. 
I think  the originals should not be further published with out some revisions...and I think you are right..he probably would not make the same mistakes today...


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## Irwin (Mar 5, 2021)

I read earlier that Dr. Seuss books are now best sellers on Amazon.com. That was a great marketing strategy if that was their purpose. Tell people they can't have something and they'll do everything they can to get it.


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## Sunny (Mar 5, 2021)

A lot of people are probably counting on them becoming collectors' items, and are buying them as an investment!


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## Shalimar (Mar 5, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> I read a lot of Dr. Seuss when I had my kids.  They never killed, murdered nor rapped anyone.  Neither did I.  The crazy politically correct have nothing else do do.  Why is the young generation so afraid.  Perhaps its their music or perhaps those crazy movies they watch all day on the not so smartphone?  Banning good books for kids is just a bunch of BS.  Time to "Get A Life."


  Racist pictures are not appropriate.I endorse this view, and don’t consider myself crazy, or lacking things to do. Also, I work with many of the young generation. They are not afraid of this stuff, nor were the books banned. My clients are suffering from PTSD

which any person regardless of age should find terrifying. I know I certainly do. Takes enormous courage to confront that particular hell. As for their music, during the fifties, some people considered rock and roll to be a tool of the devil. Times change. Regarding their movies, no worse than some of previous era’s racist or misogynist movies.


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## Leonie (Mar 5, 2021)

Sunny said:


> A lot of people are probably counting on them becoming collectors' items, and are buying them as an investment!





Irwin said:


> I read earlier that Dr. Seuss books are now best sellers on Amazon.com. That was a great marketing strategy if that was their purpose. Tell people they can't have something and they'll do everything they can to get it.



Yep, that was the first thought that popped into my head when I heard the news item.   It could have been done without the fanfare and no one would have probably even noticed, but look at the free publicity they're getting now.  Priceless!!


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## Fyrefox (Mar 6, 2021)

While concerns about the content and imagery of certain Dr. Seuss books were legitimate, the six titles discontinued were lesser known works (I've never read some of them), and many books by Theodor Geisel do not contain anything objectionable, unless you resent inspired silliness and beloved characters. The Dr. Seuss books have also gotten generations of kids to read enthusiastically, and most of his characters are animals...wonderfully drawn, anthropomorphic animals or humanoids who were far more interesting than the "Dick and Jane" figures common in kid readers at the time.  For me, "The Cat in the Hat" is where it's at, and I'm keeping my "Fox in Socks" copy until I die...


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## 911 (Mar 6, 2021)

To me, this is a shame. I read these books to my kids growing up. They carried those books with them when we would go on vacation. My daughter reads a lot. One day, I made the comment that every time I see her, she is reading. She told me that it all started with her Dr. Seuss books.

She read them to her 2 boys and she still hangs onto them.


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## Sunny (Mar 6, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> I read a lot of Dr. Seuss when I had my kids.  They never killed, murdered nor rapped anyone.  Neither did I.  The crazy politically correct have nothing else do do.  Why is the young generation so afraid.  Perhaps its their music or perhaps those crazy movies they watch all day on the not so smartphone?  Banning good books for kids is just a bunch of BS.  Time to "Get A Life."


Packerjohn, it's their music? Really?  Going back through history, every generation of harumphing old geezers has blamed all the evils of the world on the latest trend in music and dance.  I found this when I googled "Waltz immoral":

_Why was the waltz considered scandalous?
As the dance started gaining popularity, it was criticised on moral grounds due to its close-hold stance and fast turning movements. Religious leaders regarded it as vulgar and sinful. The dance was criticised to the point where people were threatened with death from waltzing._

And then came jazz - oh, horrors!

And rock and roll!

And lots more, always shocking, immoral, the downfall of the younger generation!  I have a feeling that the Neanderthals objected to the younger generation dancing around the campfire!

And in addition to that, you are now blaming the movies, and even blaming the smartphones, for people becoming "crazy politically correct."
Really, Packerjohn?  Every new invention and new style in music is to blame for everything you don't like?  Could it be that some of your values could use a little loosening up?

BTW, I love Dr. Seuss books. My first career was teaching elementary school, and one year I got first grade, so I am very familiar with his books. He was an invaluable asset in teaching young kids to read, and I found most of his books funny, and the poetry delightful. I never thought much about the illustrations, but the world has advanced since those days, and being horrified at cruel, racist stereotypes is an improvement, not a thing to be afraid of.

As I said, why not just keep publishing the books but change the illustrations?

​_
_


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## Sunny (Mar 6, 2021)

I was trying to post a video of "What's the Matter With Kids Today?"  from the musical Bye Bye Birdie, but ran into technical difficulties. Too bad, as I think the lyrics are perfect.


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## Jules (Mar 6, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I read earlier that Dr. Seuss books are now best sellers on Amazon.com. That was a great marketing strategy if that was their purpose. Tell people they can't have something and they'll do everything they can to get it.





Sunny said:


> A lot of people are probably counting on them becoming collectors' items, and are buying them as an investment!





Sunny said:


> As I said, why not just keep publishing the books but change the illustrations?



When the sales slow down, they’ll likely do the third.  

Not here so much, but other places I’ve read complaints about these books being banned.  The removal of these 6 books was done by the Seuss company.   It’s a business.  It was their decision, whatever the reasons.


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## Ceege (Mar 6, 2021)

Sunny said:


> As I said, why not just keep publishing the books but change the illustrations?
> 
> ​


That would be the most logical thing to do, which is probably why it won't be done.


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## AnnieA (Mar 6, 2021)

StarSong said:


> I'm in favor of ditching books aimed at young children if they have racist overtones or promote hurtful stereotypes.
> Presumably Seuss's publisher considered revamping some of the illustrations and opted against it.



I wish they'd gone with that instead.  There would still be backlash from some people had that been the course chosen, but whole books with an overall good message wouldn't have been scrapped for a few easily modified illustrations.


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Who are the "they" who decided to stop publishing these books?  Are they Asian or Black people who are offended?  Or are "they" academics and theorists who think people might be offended?  

The past is always with us.  Mark Twain used the n-word in Huckleberry Finn, not maliciously, but because it reflected the way people spoke back then.  Edith Wharton, who is one of my favorite writers, made anti-Semitic asides.  Harry Truman referred to Jews as "kikes."  Flannery O'Connor, a truly great writer, wrote a short story called "The Artificial N....." Do we cancel all these people?  Or do we make an effort to understand the times in which they lived? To me, it is absurd to judge people who lived in one era by using the standards of another.


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## Dana (Mar 6, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Packerjohn, it's their music? Really?  Going back through history, every generation of harumphing old geezers has blamed all the evils of the world on the latest trend in music and dance.  I found this when I googled "Waltz immoral":
> 
> _Why was the waltz considered scandalous?
> As the dance started gaining popularity, it was criticised on moral grounds due to its close-hold stance and fast turning movements. Religious leaders regarded it as vulgar and sinful. The dance was criticised to the point where people were threatened with death from waltzing._
> ...


_That cannot be done. You have to get the permission of the author before changing anything and the author in this case is ... dead!_


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## Irwin (Mar 6, 2021)

It was a corporate decision, ya know, as in a free market where businesses make decisions -- not the government. They did what they thought was in the best interest of their brand.


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## AnnieA (Mar 6, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Who are the "they" who decided to stop publishing these books?  Are they Asian or Black people who are offended?  Or are "they" academics and theorists who think people might be offended?
> 
> The past is always with us.  Mark Twain used the n-word in Huckleberry Finn, not maliciously, but because it reflected the way people spoke back then.  Edith Wharton, who is one of my favorite writers, made anti-Semitic asides.  Harry Truman referred to Jews as "kikes."  Flannery O'Connor, a truly great writer, wrote a short story called "The Artificial N....." Do we cancel all these people?  Or do we make an effort to understand the times in which they lived? To me, it is absurd to judge people who lived in one era by using the standards of another.-



Normally, I'd agree, except that these are books for very young children. 

Dr. Seuss Enterprises, who owns the rights to the books, chose to quit publishing them.  They could've just as easily reissued revised editions but chose not to.


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## Ceege (Mar 7, 2021)

No matter what anyone says or who did what, I hate to think of a small black or Asian child reading a 'so called' children's book, and seeing their race depicted as something bad or funny.  It's tough enough to grow up in this world without something that is supposed to be for children demeaning their race - no matter what that race is.  Even genders are made to look ridiculous at times.  Why do some have to find confidence in themselves by degrading someone else?


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## fuzzybuddy (Mar 7, 2021)

There's a lot of rumors that the liberal left swooped in, and banned Dr. Seuss for any number of things. Nobody "banned' Dr. Seuss. The publishing company decided not to reissue those books, because they weren't selling. Meanwhile, this BS has been flooding chat rooms, Facebook, and all. Outside of people over reacting, like a bull at a red flag, there's not much to this "banning". BS, pure BS.


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## SetWave (Mar 7, 2021)

Good point, Buckeye.

I'm rather confused by the entire controversy. But, political correctness runs rampant so . . . good luck with that.


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