# Grass or white Dutch clover for a lawn?



## Aneeda72 (Jul 23, 2020)

We have the area cleared and ready to plant.  He wants to put the grass seed in now, but I’ve told him it’s too hot. I’ve read up on white Dutch clover as an alternative lawn especially since our soil is so poor.  We could spread it now.  What do you think?

Any other suggestions for a ground cover in the front yard?


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## Aunt Marg (Jul 23, 2020)

I love clover!

What do you think of Creeping Phlox, Aneeda?

It comes in so many colours and is simply gorgeous! Over rocks, beds, wherever you want colour!


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> I love clover!
> 
> What do you think of Creeping Phlox, Aneeda?
> 
> It comes in so many colours and is simply gorgeous! Over rocks, beds, wherever you want colour!


Lovely!


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## Aunt Marg (Jul 23, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Lovely!


Just a different option for you, or at best another idea to ponder.

What I love about Phlox is, the colour, and so many different colours.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Just a different option for you, or at best another idea to ponder.
> 
> What I love about Phlox is, the colour, and so many different colours.


I’m afraid I would get too many snails though.  It’s such a hard choice as it’s so late in the year lots of stuff can’t be planted now


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## Aunt Marg (Jul 23, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I’m afraid I would get too many snails though.  It’s such a hard choice as it’s so late in the year lots of stuff can’t be planted now


I definitely wouldn't attempt to plant any ground-cover type flowering plants/flowers now. You're absolutely right, it's getting too late in the season now for it to establish itself.

You can ponder over winter and in the springtime next year, roll-out a game-plan for your plantings!


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## MickaC (Jul 23, 2020)

Have enjoyed Phlox for years, on the farm, when well taken care of, spread beautifully, but i did find it doesn't like excess wet, likes dry better, where i live.  
Dutch clover.....white clover.....are these the same.....i do have a creeping white flower clover......love it.....would this be what you're talking about.


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## Aunt Marg (Jul 23, 2020)

MickaC said:


> Have enjoyed Phlox for years, on the farm, when well taken care of, spread beautifully, but i did find it doesn't like excess wet, likes dry better, where i live.
> Dutch clover.....white clover.....are these the same.....i do have a creeping white flower clover......love it.....would this be what you're talking about.


Micka. I've always known it as White Dutch Clover, and the nice part is, it's a perennial.


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## Myquest55 (Jul 23, 2020)

The best time to put down grass seed would be in the fall.  If you have poor soil - it could take a lot of prep work.  I would put down a load of dry manure, topsoil or loam, rake it or rototill it in so it won't burn the seed you put down later.  IF you seed now, you will have to cover it well with straw and water it twice a day in the heat until it is well established.  

We had grass here but when we added on to the living room, the trucks and diggers tore up the lawn in the back.  Now its mostly weeds (that we keep mowed) but I am happy to see clover.  Clover used to be the lawn of choice however, I also remember running around barefoot and having bee stings on both feet one summer!!  The flowers are great for bees so I vote for that!!  Remember that weed killer for lawns will kill off any broad leaf plant - that includes clover.  Phlox is pretty but you cannot mow it and cannot walk on it easily.  Good luck!


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 23, 2020)

MickaC said:


> Have enjoyed Phlox for years, on the farm, when well taken care of, spread beautifully, but i did find it doesn't like excess wet, likes dry better, where i live.
> Dutch clover.....white clover.....are these the same.....i do have a creeping white flower clover......love it.....would this be what you're talking about.


Yes, less water than grass, no mowing


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## Aunt Marg (Jul 23, 2020)

We've talked with a few people that swear by fall as being an ideal time to plant grass seed, yet both times we tried, we found ourselves redoing the seed in the spring, so now we do all of our new seeding as well as over-seeding in the early spring.

Once the seed is down, we use peat moss or a quality growth agent with a percentage of vermiculite in it, top the seed off with that, water lightly as many times through the day to keep the seed moist, and 2 weeks later, fresh new lawn.

As for my phlox suggestion, I was hoping to throw something different Aneeda's way, over and above clover.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 23, 2020)

Myquest55 said:


> The best time to put down grass seed would be in the fall.  If you have poor soil - it could take a lot of prep work.  I would put down a load of dry manure, topsoil or loam, rake it or rototill it in so it won't burn the seed you put down later.  IF you seed now, you will have to cover it well with straw and water it twice a day in the heat until it is well established.
> 
> We had grass here but when we added on to the living room, the trucks and diggers tore up the lawn in the back.  Now its mostly weeds (that we keep mowed) but I am happy to see clover.  Clover used to be the lawn of choice however, I also remember running around barefoot and having bee stings on both feet one summer!!  The flowers are great for bees so I vote for that!!  Remember that weed killer for lawns will kill off any broad leaf plant - that includes clover.  Phlox is pretty but you cannot mow it and cannot walk on it easily.  Good luck!


I am leaning towards the clover, our soil is really poor and the clover is supposed to help it recover


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> We've talked with a few people that swear by fall as being an ideal time to plant grass seed, yet both times we tried, we found ourselves redoing the seed in the spring, so now we do all of our new seeding as well as over-seeding in the early spring.
> 
> Once the seed is down, we use peat moss or a quality growth agent with a percentage of vermiculite in it, top the seed off with that, water lightly as many times through the day to keep the seed moist, and 2 weeks later, fresh new lawn.
> 
> As for my phlox suggestion, I was hoping to throw something different Aneeda's way, over and above clover.


I like the phlox but it is the front lawn and will be walked on.  My son wants grass and says he will mow it as we are both allergic to grass.  I am really fighting to convince husband planting is done for the year it’s so hot.  But as I said I am leaning towards the clover.


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## Aunt Marg (Jul 23, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I like the phlox but it is the front lawn and will be walked on.  My son wants grass and says he will mow it as we are both allergic to grass.  I am really fighting to convince husband planting is done for the year it’s so hot.  But as I said I am leaning towards the clover.


A great selection, Aneeda!

Once it takes it will help inhibit weed growth, too!


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> A great selection, Aneeda!
> 
> Once it takes it will help inhibit weed growth, too!


I think it will give the yard a “meadow” look which would be nice.  Plus we have a flower garden up again the house which is behind decorative fencing, then flowers in front on a small strip, then dirt for now walk way, then an annual flower bed, then yard space, then small strip of flowers next to sidewalk.  I think clover inbetween the beds will look better than grass


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## Aunt Marg (Jul 23, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I think it will give the yard a “meadow” look which would be nice.  Plus we have a flower garden up again the house which is behind decorative fencing, then flowers in front on a small strip, then dirt for now walk way, then an annual flower bed, then yard space, then small strip of flowers next to sidewalk.  I think clover inbetween the beds will look better than grass


Better than grass... more green, and hardy, too.

Love the sounds of your yard!


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Better than grass... more green, and hardy, too.
> 
> Love the sounds of your yard!


Thanks, we have worked very very hard on it since our stupid neighbor stripped it down to dirt.   I love the color flowers bring.  They lighten the heart and bring joy to everyone.  Now to get my husband to return the grass seed he bought, .  This is the second time he’s bought it.

I made him take it back before as well.


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## Aunt Marg (Jul 23, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Thanks, we have worked very very hard on it since our stupid neighbor stripped it down to dirt.   I love the color flowers bring.  They lighten the heart and bring joy to everyone.  Now to get my husband to return the grass seed he bought, .  This is the second time he’s bought it.
> 
> I made him take it back before as well.


Hasn't grass seed gotten expensive!


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Hasn't grass seed gotten expensive!


Yes, extremely which is another reason I did not want it.  Even though I bought all the flowers except 3 on clearance it has been very expensive.  We had to add garden soil and fertilizer to the flowers beds at full price As the soil is so pour.

It cost 7000 to remove the huge Chinese elm, on the property line, and replace the fence in the back.  Then we had to set a raised flowerbed in place there and along the back fence, done with bricks, and planted.  We had a shed built, as no garage.  Just got the Vegetable garden area finished as well.

Just spoke to him and no grass in back either, clover everywhere.  This stupid house that he had to have.  Ok, done venting for now.


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## Don M. (Jul 23, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> We have the area cleared and ready to plant.  He wants to put the grass seed in now, but I’ve told him it’s too hot. I’ve read up on white Dutch clover as an alternative lawn especially since our soil is so poor.  We could spread it now.  What do you think?  Any other suggestions for a ground cover in the front yard?



It depends upon what part of the country you live in, and the general climate, etc.....no clues in your "profile".  Clover makes a nice 'ground cover", but it does not stand up well to Summer heat....we have a bunch, and it is all starting to brown out here in Missouri.  Zoysia grass makes a real good ground cover, and it chokes out all the weeds as it spreads...but, it too tends to turn brown in the Summer heat.  Kentucky Bluegrass, IMO, makes the nicest looking yard, but it succumbs easily to weeds.  In our yard...surrounded by heavy forest, I've had the best luck with Kentucky Fescue seed.

And, in our area, the BEST time to start new grass is to wait until late Winter, and put the seed down before the Last snow of the season.  The snow seems to "activate" the seeds, and as soon as the growing season starts, it sprouts quickly.  

Try searching for information on your State Dept. of Conservation web site....they usually have some good info on what works best in a given area.


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## MickaC (Jul 23, 2020)

Myquest55 said:


> The best time to put down grass seed would be in the fall.  If you have poor soil - it could take a lot of prep work.  I would put down a load of dry manure, topsoil or loam, rake it or rototill it in so it won't burn the seed you put down later.  IF you seed now, you will have to cover it well with straw and water it twice a day in the heat until it is well established.
> 
> We had grass here but when we added on to the living room, the trucks and diggers tore up the lawn in the back.  Now its mostly weeds (that we keep mowed) but I am happy to see clover.  Clover used to be the lawn of choice however, I also remember running around barefoot and having bee stings on both feet one summer!!  The flowers are great for bees so I vote for that!!  Remember that weed killer for lawns will kill off any broad leaf plant - that includes clover.  Phlox is pretty but you cannot mow it and cannot walk on it easily.  Good luck!


Yes your right.....phlox in not a replacement for grass, i still love the clover, got me thinking again.


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## Judycat (Jul 23, 2020)

My lawn has areas of clover. It's really nice.


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## Aunt Marg (Jul 23, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Yes, extremely which is another reason I did not want it.  Even though I bought all the flowers except 3 on clearance it has been very expensive.  We had to add garden soil and fertilizer to the flowers beds at full price As the soil is so pour.
> 
> It cost 7000 to remove the huge Chinese elm, on the property line, and replace the fence in the back.  Then we had to set a raised flowerbed in place there and along the back fence, done with bricks, and planted.  We had a shed built, as no garage.  Just got the Vegetable garden area finished as well.
> 
> Just spoke to him and no grass in back either, clover everywhere.  This stupid house that he had to have.  Ok, done venting for now.


Sounds beautiful! 

Raised flowerbeds in brick, wow! One of my weaknesses.

Sounds so lovely.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 24, 2020)

From what I read mixing clover with grass seed would be a good solution, and I have found no matter what you plant, when you have 100 degree very dry weather, stuff is going to die and grass is going to brown.

I have already lost plants to the heat even though I am good about watering.  Also certain plants dislike where they are while a different plant will thrive in the same location.  It’s all about soil type drainage etc.  That’s why I am choosing the clover, it says it does well in poor soil.

Plus it will look great against the various flower beds.

I suppose I could mix it with grass seed and see what happens, but the planting times are a bit different.  Sigh.  You’d think planting a ground cover would be less complicated.  I think I will end up seeding in both fall and spring to even get a hope of a good lawn.


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## Aunt Marg (Jul 24, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> From what I read mixing clover with grass seed would be a good solution, and I have found no matter what you plant, when you have 100 degree very dry weather, stuff is going to die and grass is going to brown.
> 
> I have already lost plants to the heat even though I am good about watering.  Also certain plants dislike where they are while a different plant will thrive in the same location.  It’s all about soil type drainage etc.  That’s why I am choosing the clover, it says it does well in poor soil.
> 
> ...


Very true, extended heat waves definitely takes it's toll on plantings of all varieties.

If you do decide to seed in the fall, that's great, and if it takes well, even better, but if not, you'll have spring to fine-tune bare patches.

Very excited for you, Aneeda!


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 24, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Very true, extended heat waves definitely takes it's toll on plantings of all varieties.
> 
> If you do decide to seed in the fall, that's great, and if it takes well, even better, but if not, you'll have spring to fine-tune bare patches.
> 
> Very excited for you, Aneeda!


Thanks, I am very anxious to get it done.  The bare ground makes so much dust.


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## JustBonee (Jul 24, 2020)

Living out west in the Arizona Desert for years,    I  just loved desert landscaping ..  this from someone who grew up in the NE
only patch of grass was in the backyard.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 24, 2020)

Bonnie said:


> Living out west in the Arizona Desert for years,    I  just loved desert landscaping ..  this from someone who grew up in the NE
> only patch of grass was in the backyard.


I love this yard.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 24, 2020)

I have poor soil in my yard too (dry, clay, sandy), and I went with white clover years back in the bald areas where it was hard to keep any grass alive.  It did grow and cover the ground when I watered it regularly.  But, it had to be redone every couple of years because it didn't last like grass does.

Another thing is we have a big open area behind our back yard, and the clover attracted rabbits and bees, so we were overrun with rabbits and had to step carefully in the yard because of the bees on the ground.  It also is not ideal for picking up after the dog, since it has long stringy runners.  Also heard that fertilizer, we use natural, will kill the clover because it's considered a weed, not sure if that's true.

Needless to say, I gave up on the clover and the grass for the last few years.  I have a small area of grass and I just try and keep that alive without too much watering.  They do sell native grasses which don't require too much water, but they are sold in small bags and very expensive.  My front lawn we just put in volcanic rock many years ago and haven't had to fuss with it except for pulling some weeds in spring and summer.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 24, 2020)

SeaBreeze said:


> I have poor soil in my yard too (dry, clay, sandy), and I went with white clover years back in the bald areas where it was hard to keep any grass alive.  It did grow and cover the ground when I watered it regularly.  But, it had to be redone every couple of years because it didn't last like grass does.
> 
> Another thing is we have a big open area behind our back yard, and the clover attracted rabbits and bees, so we were overrun with rabbits and had to step carefully in the yard because of the bees on the ground.  It also is not ideal for picking up after the dog, since it has long stringy runners.  Also heard that fertilizer, we use natural, will kill the clover because it's considered a weed, not sure if that's true.
> 
> Needless to say, I gave up on the clover and the grass for the last few years.  I have a small area of grass and I just try and keep that alive without too much watering.  They do sell native grasses which don't require too much water, but they are sold in small bags and very expensive.  My front lawn we just put in volcanic rock many years ago and haven't had to fuss with it except for pulling some weeds in spring and summer.


We rocked our last two houses, but they have changed the code and our neighbors had to remove their rocks.  Also rocks have become more expensive.  There just doesn’t seem to be a good solution.


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## Greenbean (Jul 5, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> We have the area cleared and ready to plant.  He wants to put the grass seed in now, but I’ve told him it’s too hot. I’ve read up on white Dutch clover as an alternative lawn especially since our soil is so poor.  We could spread it now.  What do you think?
> 
> Any other suggestions for a ground cover in the front yard?


My "lawn" has, over the years, become a white Dutch clover lawn with some grass. It happened incrementally, a little clover seed here and there. What I have noticed is that clover is greener than grass, withstands drought, needs no fertilizer or poisons, is always prettier than the grass lawns, promotes the butterflies, microorganisms, a healthy soil, bees, over the years it crowds out all weeds (actually shades them out) it is soft to walk on with bare feet (which is good for you) and since there are no poisons it will never hurt you (poisons go through your skin). We love it and the amount of work it takes is...mowing once a week. If we didn't have neighbors we wouldn't even mow it. Also they claim it needs to be reseeded every 3-5 years but so far ours hasn't needed that. (3 years and going strong) Other benefits are that because you add no chemicals and your soil microorganisms build up and are healthy (we mulch mow so that all that good clover nitrogen rich particles are sent right back down to feed them) the rain that falls on your ground stays on your ground and doesn't run off. In July when our neighbors have burning brown edges to their lawns and brown patches and are forced to water a lot we do nothing and our entire lawn is super spring like green.  I am hooked for life.


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## Greenbean (Jul 5, 2022)

SeaBreeze said:


> I have poor soil in my yard too (dry, clay, sandy), and I went with white clover years back in the bald areas where it was hard to keep any grass alive.  It did grow and cover the ground when I watered it regularly.  But, it had to be redone every couple of years because it didn't last like grass does.
> 
> Another thing is we have a big open area behind our back yard, and the clover attracted rabbits and bees, so we were overrun with rabbits and had to step carefully in the yard because of the bees on the ground.  It also is not ideal for picking up after the dog, since it has long stringy runners.  Also heard that fertilizer, we use natural, will kill the clover because it's considered a weed, not sure if that's true.
> 
> Needless to say, I gave up on the clover and the grass for the last few years.  I have a small area of grass and I just try and keep that alive without too much watering.  They do sell native grasses which don't require too much water, but they are sold in small bags and very expensive.  My front lawn we just put in volcanic rock many years ago and haven't had to fuss with it except for pulling some weeds in spring and summer.


The good news about the rabbits liking your clover is that it will keep them from the other plants in your yard that they used to eat down to the ground. All of my new flowering plants and small bushes were always eaten by our plethora of rabbits until we developed our clover yard. Now the rabbits get so tired of eating clover they are exhausted and are always either eating clover or just sitting there. They seem to prefer clover over all things...except that one they are famous for.


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## RadishRose (Jul 5, 2022)

Greenbean said:


> The good news about the rabbits liking your clover is that it will keep them from the other plants in your yard that they used to eat down to the ground. All of my new flowering plants and small bushes were always eaten by our plethora of rabbits until we developed our clover yard. Now the rabbits get so tired of eating clover they are exhausted and are always either eating clover or just sitting there. They seem to prefer clover over all things...except that one they are famous for.


Hi @Greenbean  and welcome to the forum!
Why not fill out your Profile and tell us a bit about yourself? Then you can introduce yourself in the Introduction thread.


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## Greenbean (Jul 5, 2022)

Dog doo in clover doesn't sound good. Never thought of that. We are between dogs. Herbicides will kill clover. The man who first introduced the first herbicide apologized to people because back then, and throughout history, white clover had been a well-loved part of every lawn, because his product not only killed weeds, it also killed people's clover. From then on anything in a lawn that isn't just grass has been considered an undesirable weed. Back then people were much more knowledgeable about nature and realized the benefits of clover in their grass in that it constantly adds nitrogen. I harken back to the good old days when clover was a part of everyone's lawn, people enjoyed their yards instead of just working on taking care of them, and front porches were places where neighbors socialized, and family members lived close enough to enjoy it all with you.


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