# My home would be a tough sell on today's market



## debodun (Dec 31, 2016)

A consensus of real estate agents say that people want smaller, economical homes that are in "move-in" condition. My 2500 sq ft Victorian monstrosity that is filled with needed updating (plumbing, wiring, exterior painting, insulation) and functional obsolescence would probably not sell well in today's market. Young people starting out in life don't have much money to afford many and costly repairs. Older people are looking to downsize and don't want big houses. 

Any opinions on the housing market?


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## Aunt Bea (Dec 31, 2016)

IMO it's all about the price, if the price reflects the work involved then someone will tackle it and repair it or chop it into a couple of apartments.

Sometimes you have to look beyond just the price of the house.  Look at the potential savings/reduced expenses of moving into a small modern apartment, the reduced work and worry of trying to maintain the home and the income you can earn by investing the proceeds from the sale of the house.


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## Capt Lightning (Dec 31, 2016)

When you say 'the consensus of estate agents'  (no 'real' in the UK), I wonder does that translate to "Builders are building 'Little Boxes'  (remember the song?), so we have to convince our clients to buy them".  That's what seems to be happening here.  Towns that have good commuting links are being swamped by small cheaply built houses with virtually no garden or parking space. 

When we retired, we actually upsized.  For the price of our house in the  south of England, we were able to buy a much larger house in N.E.  Scotland.  We bought a house that was originally built in the 1830's and extended in 1896.  Yes, it needed a lot of work, but it is very cosy and has a feeling of security about it.  I would never buy a new house in Scotland unless it was built to my own specification.  Fortunately there are a few  builders who still build a small number of houses in the traditional way.


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## debodun (Dec 31, 2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlSpc87Jfr0


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## debodun (Dec 31, 2016)

When I see a new house going up, it looks like they erect an already-made frame, then staple or hot glue fiberglass siding over that. I tell people when a big wind storm comes, my house will still be standing and these new houses will be blown away (That actually happened about 20 years ago when a tornado passed within a mile of my house). Their reply...."Yes, but they're NEW!"

Same mentality with garage sales. I have a feeling they are falling off in popularity because young people go to a "big box" store and by cheaply made and shoddy merchandise rather than buy vintage goods that are much more durable at a jumble sale. Why....because they are new.


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## BlondieBoomer (Dec 31, 2016)

Capt Lightning said:


> When you say 'the consensus of estate agents'  (no 'real' in the UK), I wonder does that translate to "Builders are building 'Little Boxes'  (remember the song?), so we have to convince our clients to buy them".  That's what seems to be happening here.  Towns that have good commuting links are being swamped by small cheaply built houses with virtually no garden or parking space.
> 
> When we retired, we actually upsized.  For the price of our house in the  south of England, we were able to buy a much larger house in N.E.  Scotland.  We bought a house that was originally built in the 1830's and extended in 1896.  Yes, it needed a lot of work, but it is very cosy and has a feeling of security about it.  I would never buy a new house in Scotland unless it was built to my own specification.  Fortunately there are a few  builders who still build a small number of houses in the traditional way.



I like larger homes as well. It's actually easier to keep a larger space looking acceptable, especially if you are prone to clutter. And we spend a lot of time at home so for me, having space is important. 

It does get more more difficult to keep a bigger place in order, but once I retire there'll be more time for that.


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## jujube (Dec 31, 2016)

Our stick-and-brick is a cozy 1100 square feet and sometimes I think there's too much room at that.  The high cathedral ceilings help.  I have no desire for anything bigger.  I have a relatively small galley-type kitchen open at both ends that I like because all I have to do is swivel around and almost everything is within reach with no more than two steps.  

I actually feel more comfortable in our approximately 360 sq. ft. fifth wheel.  Just enough room for everything and no temptation to add anything I don't need.


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## tortiecat (Dec 31, 2016)

We moved to a larger house 30 years ago to accommodate our growing family.  Lived there
for over 25 years; once the grand kids became teenagers they did not want to visit as often,
so we sold and I now live in a lovely two bedroom apartment  in a retirement community.


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## Buckeye (Dec 31, 2016)

Debodun -  I fear you are correct.  There is a shrinking demand for grand old Victorian homes.  High maintenance cost and energy inefficiency are killing the market for them.  I know that for me, at age 70, I would not take on such a large project.  I think my next one will be small, maybe a condo, maybe not, but with a pool.  And most likely in Arizona.


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## Kitties (Dec 31, 2016)

I don't know what you are going to do with that place. Stay there for the rest of your life?

I still think there are some young and dumb with enough energy to want to take on a place like that. The problem is you keep saying you can't sell it even for cheap in it's present condition. So what are you going to do? I still can't believe you can't do a cheap as is and  get rid of it. But I'm not an expert.


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## Butterfly (Dec 31, 2016)

debodun said:


> A consensus of real estate agents say that people want smaller, economical homes that are in "move-in" condition. My 2500 sq ft Victorian monstrosity that is filled with needed updating (plumbing, wiring, exterior painting, insulation) and functional obsolescence would probably not sell well in today's market. Young people starting out in life don't have much money to afford many and costly repairs. Older people are looking to downsize and don't want big houses.
> 
> Any opinions on the housing market?



Does it cost a fortune to heat your house?


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## nvtribefan (Dec 31, 2016)

You'll never know if your house would sell if it's not on the market.  There is a lot of new construction here, from "tiny houses" to McMansions.  Some people want new homes, others are happy to find a *sound* older house to renovate.
A home that needs all new wiring, plumbing, paint, and insulation is certainly not going to command a premium price.

Generalization are just that.


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## BlondieBoomer (Dec 31, 2016)

nvtribefan said:


> You'll never know if your house would sell if it's not on the market.  There is a lot of new construction here, from "tiny houses" to McMansions.  Some people want new homes, others are happy to find a *sound* older house to renovate.
> A home that needs all new wiring, plumbing, paint, and insulation is certainly not going to command a premium price.
> 
> Generalization are just that.



The same is true here. Victorians have a distinct charm to them and a lot of people like them and would be willing to buy one that needs work at a price that reflects that. People with building, plumbing and electrical skills might find it very attractive. 2500 sq. Ft here is just a mid-size home.


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## debodun (Jan 1, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Does it cost a fortune to heat your house?



Depends on your definition of "fortune". Before I had a new boiler furnace installed 5 years ago, it ran around $6000 a year for fuel oil, now it's around $3000.


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## debodun (Jan 1, 2017)

There's a house just two away from me that is also a Victorian with a brick exterior, but it's been vacant a long time and in worse shape than mine. Some windows are boarded up, it has a flat roof (I can imagine what that would do to that old house in a significant snow with nobody there to remove it). It was on the market for years, then sold for $35K, still vacant, and now there's another FOR SALE sign in front of it, probably a flipper bought it. It would probably have to be gutted and rebuilt.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/647-Hudson-Ave-Stillwater-NY-12170/32453690_zpid/


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## Robusta (Jan 1, 2017)

Upstate NY, Probably the worst housing market in the nation.


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## debodun (Jan 1, 2017)

Robusta said:


> Upstate NY, Probably the worst housing market in the nation.



Why is that?


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## BlondieBoomer (Jan 1, 2017)

It looks like it's a nice area with water views. It looks like a repainting on the trim would make it look nice from the outside. Taxes seem high for the price. But I don't know what NY taxes are based on. The price seems unbelievably low.


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## debodun (Jan 1, 2017)

BlondieBoomer said:


> The price seems unbelievably low.



Because it's a disaster area (look through all the photos - there's a slide show on the right side of the page). Makes my house look like Versailles.


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## BlondieBoomer (Jan 1, 2017)

I didn't notice the additional pictures before. Yeah, it looks pretty rough and would probably be very expensive to do all those repairs. But it looks like it was once a beautiful home. I love the style. Is yours similar?


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## debodun (Jan 1, 2017)

I put a few pics in a photo album.


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## debodun (Jan 1, 2017)

I put a few pics in a photo album here: https://www.seniorforums.com/album.php?albumid=366


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## BlondieBoomer (Jan 1, 2017)

What a pretty house! Victorians are so charming.


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## debodun (Jan 1, 2017)

BlondieBoomer said:


> What a pretty house! Victorians are so charming.



Thank you, but a PITA for an old lady alone to maintain. It needs so much work and I've already spent considerable sums for repairs and it still looks the same. I've been ripped off by so many contractors that I've been soured on having much more more done.


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## BlondieBoomer (Jan 2, 2017)

debodun said:


> Thank you, but a PITA for an old lady alone to maintain. It needs so much work and I've already spent considerable sums for repairs and it still looks the same. I've been ripped off by so many contractors that I've been soured on having much more more done.



I can understand how it could be a pain to maintain it yourself. If you have Nextdoor.com around there and there are a lot of members in the area, that can be a great source for contractors and handymen. I just go there and post a question, like, " Does anyone know of a dependable electrician to wire a few switches" or whatever. We have quite a few people in the area, so I get good replies.

It doesn't hurt to just talk to a real estate agent to get an idea of where the market stands. You don't have to act on their recommendations right away. In fact when we sold our last house we spoke to 4 different agents. (And didn't tell any of them who else we had talked to.) There was quite a variance in some of their opinions.


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## Carla (Jan 2, 2017)

debodun said:


> I put a few pics in a photo album here: https://www.seniorforums.com/album.php?albumid=366



Deb--how many built-in hutches do you have? Just curious


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## debodun (Jan 2, 2017)

Carla said:


> Deb--how many built-in hutches do you have? Just curious



Three corner cabinets.


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## Bobw235 (Jan 2, 2017)

My wife and I go back and forth with the question of selling our home (to move to a more moderate climate) or staying here and making do. Our small (less than 1,500 square feet) "starter" home was built in 1983 when we moved in. We've done a bunch of landscaping/hardscaping over the years and added some nice improvements inside. It would indeed be a good starter home (only three bedrooms, 1.5 bathrooms) for a family like we were once, with only one small child. Good yard, child-safe cul-de-sac off another cul-de-sac, close to schools and stores. One drawback: No garage. Thus winter's are a hassle when it snows. Oh, and electric baseboard heating SUCKS (no option for gas or oil). So, as we think about selling, we know we'd have to upgrade the bathrooms (kitchen was done in the past two years), but other than that it would be good to go. But there's a part of me that says do the upgrades, stay here and go somewhere warmer in the coldest part of the year. I don't think we'd have a problem selling if marketed and priced correctly.


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## Carla (Jan 2, 2017)

Love them and the beautiful glass! I once owned a home built in 1898 that had one. It had a hidden winding staircase and a regular staircase and one door with stained glass. Wrap around porch and a balcony and gingerbread on the front. It had five doors leading outside on the first floor! Loved that old house but it really needed updating and it was all expensive. It did have a lot of charm though. I actually love those older homes and a lot of people probably still do. It's the younger generation that may looking for a first home today that may not be looking for that unless they are handy and can afford to have the work done. However, it only takes one!


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## BlondieBoomer (Jan 2, 2017)

A friend of mine sold a large house with lots of updating and repairs needed to an Indian family who had in-laws living with them. They worked in Silicon Valley and had a good income but ere very interested in something economical that they could fix up. And the extra space was necessary for them because of the in-laws. They were willing to overlook some of the repairs needed and were very resourceful. They sent her photos of it a couple years after they bought it and had completely updated it. They were willing to live with the mess and clutter of remodeling and it paid off in the end.


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## debodun (Jan 2, 2017)

In 1999, my grandma's house had to be sold. It was also a train wreck since she didn't keep up the maintenance on it after my step-grandfather passed away in 1972. However, it was riverfront property which the realtor said was the selling point. In other words, he was selling the 3-acre lot and throwing in the house. I believe they got around $70K for it.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Jan 2, 2017)

I think our home would be tricky to sell as is. We had it built in the early eighties. We live in a neighborhood of all large colonial houses. We are one of only three ranches in the area. We have kept up with all repairs,new roof, and the acre property is nicely kept as well. The thing is, it is very dated. We still have paneling in a few rooms. Perfect condition but so out dated. The paneling in the living room and dining room I painted over and then splatter painted it. I have a stenciled border in the master bedroom. My son did update the cabinets in the kitchen but the appliances are quite old. I agree the young families who are looking for homes just want to move in and not have to do a thing. My daughter just recently moved from the west coast and that was her top priority when looking for a home. Move in and do nothing.


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## jujube (Jan 2, 2017)

We lived in a classic craftsman built in 1923 and boy was that thing a pain in the patootie!   The electrical and plumbing had apparently been done by Rube Goldberg sometime in the past.  I actually had a plumber say to me, "I know you have hot water in the kitchen but darned if I can figure out how it is getting there from the water heater."  

When it was sold, we moved for a couple of years into a rental townhouse.  How nice it was to call up the office and say, "YOUR toilet is leaking" or "YOUR refrigerator is not cooling" or "YOUR air conditioning is on the fritz".

By then, we had forgotten about the "joys" of home ownership and bought another house.  Sigh.  Another 14 years of "my problem".


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 19, 2017)

I had a younger cousin who with her husband bought a big Victorian home in S.C. But that was a couple of decades ago and they have since moved twice due to his job. I still see on the House Hunting shows that some young people love old construction and older style homes. But certainly if there is a lot of work to be done, especially work that shouldn't be done by the homeowners themselves (eg; electrical wiring), it has to be priced accordingly. There needs to be consideration of if even at a much lower sale price, would there be at least some net profit. Add to that the savings of owning a smaller, more financially manageable home or apartment, hopefully in a location that is very walkable or has a great public transportation system for convenience and to save on car expenses.


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## debodun (Jan 24, 2017)

One realtor that looked at my house was shocked to see wallpaper in all the rooms (some rooms even have the ceiling wallpapered). She wouldn't even consider listing it unless the wallpaper was removed an the walls painted. I think wallpaper goes with the Victorian style. Why would it give that realtor a brain hemorrhage?


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## Debby (Feb 5, 2017)

Although wallpaper is experiencing a bit of a resurgence I think, most people look at an old house's wallpaper and see an old pattern that is outdated and will be a total pain to remove.  And a fresh coat of paint makes any house sparkle just a little more than will old paper with potentially some scuff marks, wrinkles, corners lifting, etc.

I have moved over 20 times, bought most of the properties and when I look at a house, that's what I see when looking at someone else's wallpaper choice (and especially if it's very old).  I know it's a hard thing to do, but if you are thinking of selling, you have to quit thinking of what you like and think instead about what will make it easy for people to like your house.  If you love brilliant green walls, so what, because most people hate brilliant green walls.  So paint it out with a colour that most people are comfortable with.  Light, bright and clean is the order of the day for a buyer.

If you love lots of precious stuff all about you, the lookers have a hard time seeing past that (and especially if they are 'tidies') and will only see your house as cluttered and untidy and will be inclined to want to get out.  Selling a house is not all about you.  It's about helping people imagine themselves in that space.  That's why realtors will advise you to pack away your ornaments and personal photos of family.  

I'm not trying to offend at all debodun, but just sharing what I've learned after forty years of moving almost every other year.


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## Lethe200 (Mar 12, 2017)

debodun said:


> .....young people go to a "big box" store and by cheaply made and shoddy merchandise rather than buy vintage goods that are much more durable at a jumble sale. Why....because they are new.



Maybe. Or maybe it's just not a style they like. I had a wealthy friend who lived in a beautiful 1894 Tudor they had spent decades restoring. She had many magnificent antiques as well.

But I'd never live in a home like that. I can admire it...but give me a Frank Lloyd Wright Usonian, or an urban loft filled with Milo Baughman's furniture, any day. My DH is even worse; if he could somehow manage it he'd live in something really Minimalist, with everything hidden behind cabinet and closet doors. He hates fussy, ornate or cluttered design.

Homes in "turnkey" condition are prized out here because they're very rarely found. We keep our home in very good condition but even so, there are repairs waiting to be made. Almost all the couples we know, even at the higher income brackets (people who are multi-millionaires), consist of both spouses working.

Most young folks lead full, busy lives. Jobs are more demanding now; commutes are longer and travel's always a hassle. Don't have time to spend living with dust and dirt, and fighting with contractors and permits.

My niece-in-law thought she wanted to be a "stay at home" mom so she could quit her well-paying job with Price Waterhouse Cooper. Five years later, she's about ready to start climbing the walls! She's looking to start a second career as a RE agent.

When both spouses are working and have kids, it's hard to face a substantial remodel. My nephew has remodeled several houses already and knows how time-consuming it is. For their most recent purchase, they bought a house based on school district (since they have three young kids), then remodeled it BEFORE they moved in.

It was six months of cramped uncomfortable living with one of his parents, but they have all the "bells and whistles" they want, including master bath suite with large shower and gourmet kitchen. They put in double-paned windows and a second full bath for the kids. They needed turnkey to reduce future maintenance hassles, which never come at a convenient time (as we all well know, LOL).


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## debodun (Mar 12, 2017)

The two worst rooms (IMO) in my house are the bathroom - antiquated plumbing, stained porcelain, and kitchen (spatters on the walls, old appliances, warped linoleum floor tiles, knocked out ceiling and wall between windows, out-of-reach cabinetry (for a short person). One realtor that looked said they the two rooms that are the biggest selling points of a home are - guess what?

My Kitchen


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## RadishRose (Mar 12, 2017)

Yep, sorry to say, all that clutter around just screams : "No storage space!"


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## nvtribefan (Mar 12, 2017)

debodun said:


> The two worst rooms (IMO) in my house are the bathroom - antiquated plumbing, stained porcelain, and kitchen (spatters on the walls, old appliances, warped linoleum floor tiles, knocked out ceiling and wall between windows, out-of-reach cabinetry (for a short person). One realtor that looked said they the two rooms that are the biggest selling points of a home are - guess what?
> 
> My Kitchen
> 
> View attachment 36004




How long have you been living in the house like that?


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## Lon (Mar 12, 2017)

Just had a thought Debo. Hold a auction for your house and sell the tickets for $500 each.  .


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## debodun (Mar 17, 2017)

nvtribefan said:


> How long have you been living in the house like that?



23 years


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## debodun (Mar 17, 2017)

RadishRose said:


> Yep, sorry to say, all that clutter around just screams : "No storage space!"



It has plenty of cabinets, but they are already full. What you see is "overflow". The amount of kitchen stuff exceeds the storage space.


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## RadishRose (Mar 17, 2017)

Obviously, there is not enough storage space, then. Or, If it has "plenty of cabinets" but they are already full, that means you have more than plenty of kitchen stuff.


If you're serious about selling, you need to make the place look like there is adequate storage.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 17, 2017)

I hear ads from these people on the radio all the time, they say they'll buy your house, cash money, as is.  I know they will give you the least amount of money possible, but maybe in situations like yours, where the house is in need of repairs that likely cost thousands, and other costs of owning the house like taxes, maintenance, etc.  It might be something to consider?  It doesn't sound like you're happy at all being there Deb, I think a move and downsizing would be best for you in my opinion.  If it was me, I'd probably at least get an estimate from these people.    http://www.webuyuglyhouses.com/new-york/


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## NancyNGA (Mar 17, 2017)

Deb, I've been thinking about your situation.  It could have been me.   Have you ever thought of just selling your house AS IS, including all furniture and stuff you don't want to keep?    Forget what the real estate agent says. He/she is just out to make a quick commission.   Someone might buy it to flip.    

It might take some time to find the right buyer, and you wouldn't get as much money, but in the amount of time you have been thinking about this, you might have had a buyer by now.   It is weighing on your mind too much, I think.  

Repairs, or remodels, like others have said...you might choose something that an otherwise potential buy wouldn't like, anyway.  Then there will be inspections.  They might come up with other things you hadn't thought of.  

Just a thought.  Peace of mind is worth a lot of money.  At least it is to me.  That's what I'm going to do with my parents' house, even including the tractor, lawn mower, furniture, dishes, etc, one day.


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## debodun (Mar 18, 2017)

NancyNGA said:


> Have you ever thought of just selling your house AS IS?



All the time! However, I have to have a place to move to if I sell. I looked into senior housing options last year and wasn't happy with those, either. Too may rules, too expensive and those that were under $2000 a month to live were dumps (i.e. no amenities).


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## nvtribefan (Mar 18, 2017)

debodun said:


> those that were under $2000 a month to live were dumps (i.e. no amenities).



Decent housing and amenities are not free.


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