# Guy, rtransgener,



## babyboomer (Nov 28, 2013)

My firs contact with guy/lezbian' community , years back, was working at interational hotel.. 
half of the staff were gay, and the saying was going on:
Behind every good man, there is a good woman. At the hotel , The saying was: behind every giod man, there is a porter"

later on, I worked in guy community.4 out of 5 my clients were either guy or lesbians.
I was never directly abused. there were little "itssy bittsy encounters.
We may not understand, we may not comprehend, but are we tolerant??


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## Diwundrin (Nov 28, 2013)

Like every other group in society it depends on the person Bboomer.  Have a friend I worked with who was as camp as a row of tents but he was, probably still would be if I hadn't moved away,  a very good friend and I didn't count many as that.  
Others make me want to pull my hair out and choke them with it. 

If they leave me alone I don't givva proverbial what they do. I don't appreciate the attitude of some that they are special and we are lesser beings for not appreciating them though.


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## Old Hipster (Nov 28, 2013)

Some of my best friends I ever had were gay men, sadly Aids got them in the 80's. 

My feelings were and still are, I don't concern myself with what any of my friends do in their bedroom, gay or straight! Other than that we are all human beings and anything else is just secondary and not a big concern for me. Who am I to judge.


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## TICA (Nov 28, 2013)

Old Hipster said:


> Some of my best friends I ever had were gay men, sadly Aids got them in the 80's.
> 
> My feelings were and still are, I don't concern myself with what any of my friends do in their bedroom, gay or straight! Other than that we are all human beings and anything else is just secondary and not a big concern for me. Who am I to judge.



Well said.  I too lost a few close friends due to AIDS.   Every group, whether gay, of color, a religious group, age... you name it seem to want to be considered "special" these days.   I wonder if we'll ever see the day when the population can get along as one?


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## Davey Jones (Nov 28, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> If they leave me alone I don't givva proverbial what they do. I don't appreciate the attitude of some that they are special and we are lesser beings for not appreciating them though.


Exactly my feelings too,they just need to stop shoving their life style down our throats and expecting everyone to accept it.
My brother-in-law is gay and he knows better then to bring up the topic when he is around me or my family.


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## That Guy (Nov 28, 2013)

Years ago there was a gay guy at the gym who was friendly but gave me "goo-goo" eyes.  At first, I was repulsed.  But, then, I realized Hey someone finds me attractive and that's a good thing.  So, I stopped feeing uncomfortable around him and just enjoyed his friendly banter in the locker room.  Homophobia is a sad condition.  Homosexuals have no interest in heterosexuals and nobody's gonna jump yer bones.  Relax and be friendly.  We're all human.


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## GDAD (Nov 28, 2013)

My wife & I have a few friends that are gay, can't see what the problem is. One couple live opposite us, & we often go over to their place & they to ours for
a BBQ. We have been to half a dozen Gay Charity Balls, & functions. Hate it when people are treated different,(categoriesed)It's like me saying,
"Gee my Neighbors are weird, they told me that they only have sex in the missionary position with Nat King Cole Music playing!"


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## Diwundrin (Nov 28, 2013)

> We have been to half a dozen Gay Charity Balls, & functions. Hate it  when people are treated different,(categoriesed)It's like me saying,
> "Gee my Neighbors are weird, they told me that they only have sex in the missionary position with Nat King Cole Music playing!"



The only problem some people might have with those 'missionary' type neighbours GDAD is if they insist on  demonstrating it on the back of a big glitzy float in a parade and expect to be applauded for the performance.


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## Fern (Nov 28, 2013)

I was reading the other day that in Britain, never before have men/women been so adventurous in their sex lives. Trying anything these days. Sounds like a ****** revolution .


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## SifuPhil (Nov 28, 2013)

Fern said:


> I was reading the other day that in Britain, never before have men/women been so adventurous in their sex lives. Trying anything these days. Sounds like a ****** revolution .



I wonder what color coats they're wearing _this_ time?


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## Jillaroo (Nov 28, 2013)

_No matter what colour or ****** preference we are after all HUMAN BEINGS that God made_


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## babyboomer (Nov 28, 2013)

Thinking of 50's ,60's and 70' the guy comunity was not as liberated (open) as now-days.
But as i remember, there were always two aunties and/or uncles that lived together.
The men were often a bit colorfull with their attire, and many of the ladies were wearing slacks, men's shirts and flat shoes. 
As far as guy comunity goes, i am not discriminative, live and let live.

As I was involved in maintanance of the buildings there were a few funny encounters.
In one of such buildings , the Caretaker told me: "I just hate Mardi Gras" Knowing that his vieWs on the subject are quite tolerant, i was surprised with his statement! "its not the gay's and lez's that i hate, its the freking glitter that i cant get out of the carpet" he said!


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## GDAD (Nov 28, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> The only problem some people might have with those 'missionary' type neighbours GDAD is if they insist on  demonstrating it on the back of a big glitzy float in a parade and expect to be applauded for the performance.



Isn't it ironic that the Parade & the applause was brought on by *The reverend Fred Niles* constant persecution of gay people rights in parliament in the 50-60s.
As I have said in other blogs: *I HAVE FRIENDS THAT ARE GAY*: NOT GAY FRIENDS: I ALSO HAVE *FRIENDS THAT ARE HETROSEXUAL*!


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 28, 2013)

People's ****** preference is none of my business.  When I was young I had a friend who was a lesbian, and she was the nicest person you could meet.  She respected the fact that I was straight, and I respected her choice of sexuality.  There are cool people in this world and jerks, gay or straight usually doesn't define them.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 28, 2013)

Why do you yell so much GDAD?  It's a discussion not a shouting competition.


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## babyboomer (Nov 29, 2013)

My dear friend Marry, goes out with guy gays, She calls them "handbags". I have asked her about her practice.
She explained: "Cos' of their feminisam, they can relate to a lady. They are good in convesations, and I do not have to vorry abut the hand under the table"


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## GDAD (Nov 29, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Why do you yell so much GDAD?  It's a discussion not a shouting competition.



Sorry Di I sometimes get annoyed with this whole gay bashing. It comes up now and again & it's the same old thing
I hate seeing so many wonder people, who like hetrosexuals,serve in our police force, paramedics, the armed forces,
there are marvellous doctors & scientists. Yes even politicians & sportspeople. 
We don't go round & say "Oh looked there's the Gay Greg Louganis the great sportsman" 
I can remember on another forum a chap was so bitter about gay people, because his son was gay.
I find that profoundly sad, I could never & would never fell that about my sons or friends.....Life & friends are to precious!
There you've never seen me write so much in one go!:love_heart:


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## Diwundrin (Nov 29, 2013)

You've excelled yourself Gdad, best effort yet. 



I don't see any gay bashing on this thread though, I think you're a bit over defensive.  They ain't all saints and neither are we. 
 They're just people, some we like and some we don't.  I'd bet I've said a lot more bad things about Greenies than I have about gays but you don't come ridin' in to defend them, don't know any?  (wish I didn't.)  Every time we talk about the OTT antics of idiotic protestors and activists of any cause or persuasion  doesn't signify code red, just settle down and save your ammo for real frothers. 
No crusade happening here.   .. or did I miss it?


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## babyboomer (Nov 29, 2013)

Well a gay guy came finally to his father at the age of 35, and confessed that he is gay.
Father was a bit uneassy at first, then he said:" it could be worse, much worse.."
"What could be worse..? asked the gay son.
"Well you could turn to be a politician.." replied father.


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## Katybug (Nov 29, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Years ago there was a gay guy at the gym who was friendly but gave me "goo-goo" eyes.  At first, I was repulsed.  But, then, I realized Hey someone finds me attractive and that's a good thing.  So, I stopped feeing uncomfortable around him and just enjoyed his friendly banter in the locker room.  Homophobia is a sad condition.
> 
> *Homosexuals have no interest in heterosexuals and nobody's gonna jump yer bones.  Relax and be friendly.  We're all human.*



Very well stated!!  I couldn't care less who marries who, who was once a man/woman, or who anyone beds.  What some may find offensive, I don't.  I have always been "live and let live" and can't imagine feeling any differently. There are some exceptions....rude people, snobs, holier than thou's, know it alls, you get the picture....but lifestyles?  Nah, go for it if it makes you happy.  Life is too short!  

My one and only complaint concerning gay males...for God's sake if you are gay, go with it!  Don't marry some innocent woman and expose her to your lifestyle and perhaps death!  Man  up, get outta the closet and live your truth!


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## Fern (Nov 29, 2013)

That guy,





> *Homosexuals have no interest in heterosexuals and nobody's gonna jump yer bones.  Relax and be friendly.  We're all human.*


You've got that wrong. Being 'propositioned' by lesbians, is something I don't appreciate and our gay neighbours really 'loove' to 'come on' to the ladies. As they say, 'any port in a storm'. 'dirty ducks dabble in a dirty pond'.


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## Katybug (Nov 29, 2013)

GDAD said:


> Isn't it ironic that the Parade & the applause was brought on by *The reverend Fred Niles* constant persecution of gay people rights in parliament in the 50-60s.
> As I have said in other blogs: *I HAVE FRIENDS THAT ARE GAY*: NOT GAY FRIENDS: I ALSO HAVE *FRIENDS THAT ARE HETROSEXUAL*!



GDAD, you are very with the times in your thinking.  It is obviously not the opinion of all, but I agree with you 100%.

Again, not wanting to start an argument, just state my opinion...but who in the hell would *CHOOSE* to be gay, given the prejudices they have to deal with all their lives?  And that's what my dear friend/hairdresser, Greg, asked often.  He died of AIDS about 10 yrs ago, but was out of the closet most of his life.  He couldn't deny it, his face looked just like one of a beautiful woman and he had nothing done to it surgically.  My former neighbor's son acted feminine from the time he was a toddler -- I knew.  Sure enough, he came out in high school.  This isn't just coincidence, as I certainly don't think he made a choice to "BECOME GAY" when he was 4!  The child never had an oz of interest in anything boyish, but everything girlish, and I watched it evolve over the years when he was way too young to know what was going on.  

If it bothers you, avoid it as best you can, because it's simply a fact of life that is not ever going away.


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## Katybug (Nov 29, 2013)

Fern said:


> That guy,
> You've got that wrong. Being 'propositioned' by lesbians, is something I don't appreciate and our gay neighbours really 'loove' to 'come on' to the ladies. As they say, 'any port in a storm'. 'dirty ducks dabble in a dirty pond'.



I had a pretty blonde gal come on to me at a party when I was late 30's.  She didn't look the part at all, but she was drunk and I put it off on that.  I was in a long term committed relationship w/a guy she knew well and he later told me she was bi. Just as I have w/guys I'm not interested in, I made it very clear I wasn't interested.  That's all it takes. 

If it bothers you, I would avoid them just like I did with that woman for the rest of the evening. I'm thinking you may be like I am and don't like being in uncomfortable situations.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 29, 2013)

I've been hit on by 2 lesbians, by mistake.  Because I wasn't in the usual highly public soap opera relationship miasma the rest of the staff indulged in they presumed I wasn't interested in dating any moron who asked me because I didn't like men.  Wrong, men yes, morons no.  They were sooooo embarrassed.  I was quite offended the first time,  but the 2nd time I saw the funny side of it and ended up assuring her it was okay to have made the mistake.  Talk about soap operas!  

 

I think that's why the histrionics and intensity of the 'in your face' type of gays puts me off a little.  They are totally 'relationship' and emotionally into life, and I'm not a soapie fan and don't treat 'relationships'  as the be all and end all of life. I don't mind a bit of 'romance' as dessert,  but never pinned the future on a usually fleeting emotion as many do.   I don't 'get' why the marriage thing is so damned important to them.  Strangely enough my gay friend didn't either, he thought they were mad. Why would they want to ruin a perfectly good friendship with marriage?  

 



> My one and only complaint concerning gay males...for God's sake if you  are gay, go with it!  Don't marry some innocent woman and expose her to  your lifestyle and perhaps death!  Man  up, get outta the closet and  live your truth!



With you 100% on that one Katy, the swing hitters are the ones that are a danger and give the rest of them a bad rep. 

There are lot of categories that ****** preferences can be sorted into and most are nobody's problem but the individual's, but when those preferences involve the unsuspecting and put them in danger then a line must be drawn.  

For a bi man to knowingly infect an unsuspecting woman with AIDS, or even risk doing so,  is equivalent to those who prey on children in my book. 
 Those ****** preferences put into practice deserve the same degree of mercy and understanding from society.  None!  

No one's preferences entitle them to over-ride the rights of others to reject them.  
We are all entitled to hold opinions of others' lifestyles etc, as long as they're are held as personal opinions only and don't materialise into physical action.

Those who hate gays are entitled to do that, they just aren't entitled to bash them or berate them for it. 
 Gays who hate homophobes are entitled to do that too, but they aren't entitled to lump all heterosexuals into that bag and denigrate 'breeders' as luddites,  and shake their bums in our faces.  It's all a matter of degree isn't it?

Tolerance is a two way street.  Traffic can negotiate it perfectly safely if the rules are followed and they stay on their own side of the road.  It's only when people try to force others to do U-turns that collisions occur.

[/:soap2: ]


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## SifuPhil (Nov 29, 2013)

From one extreme ...



... to the other ...




I lived in one of the most gay areas in the U.S. for seven years and never had a problem. Made a lot of gay friends, I never caught the gay bug and they never jumped me in a dark alley. 

It isn't my bag, but if it's theirs and they don't throw it at me then no problemo.


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## GDAD (Nov 29, 2013)

*KATYBUG*: It is terrible when you lose a great hairdresser & friend.  your gay or your not gay doesn't bloody matter! 
                  My wife used to work with aids patients, in the early days when aids was first known.
                  we lost a few so called friends, as they thought they may catch aids from us.
                  She worked at St John of God Hospital in Sydney.
*Fern:* I've been hit on by both gay men & women, Half the time it is just a joke there having a go at you
         The men well, I just blow them a kiss & say sorry I'm taken. The women I say come on & then they decline.:rofl:


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## Fern (Nov 30, 2013)

GDad,


> *Fern:* I've been hit on by both gay men & women, Half the time it is just a joke there having a go at you
> The men well, I just blow them a kiss & say sorry I'm taken. The women I say come on & then they decline


Didn't you say that gays aren't interested in heterosexuals. If they weren't interested, then would they be bothered.!  What do you get from sexually joking around,  all about their prowess!
 My hubby knew how to handle the guy next door when he was propositioned at a neighbourly get together, just by giving hand signals on size, as was being done to him,  (take it as you will) hubby hasn't been bothered since.

katybug;





> If it bothers you, I would avoid them just like I did with that woman  for the rest of the evening. I'm thinking you may be like I am and don't  like being in uncomfortable situations.


Not possible to avoid them when walking the street/s or in the library. I can handle being in an uncomfortable situation, it's the gall of them that I don't appreciate. Now if it was a guy, then that is a different matter .


> Again, not wanting to start an argument, just state my opinion...but who in the hell would *CHOOSE* to be gay,


The above remark surprises me. It's commonplace that men/women are making that choice, more so than you think,   some because they have come out of a 'bad' hetero relationship and they want the 'experience'  others want to be in a bi relationship, all the more the merrier, some I know have tried that but later on in life have settled for one partner of either sex. 
Then there are the 'true' gays, (born that way)  who I believe are not as prevalent as you would think.
It's obvious to me that we are in a ****** revolution, if that's the way (some) people want to live, that's their choice but don't expect me to enjoy being come on to by my own sex. And that is MY choice.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 30, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Homophobia is a sad condition.  Homosexuals have no interest in heterosexuals and nobody's gonna jump yer bones.  Relax and be friendly.  We're all human.



You're right That Guy!  My friend did have an interest in me at first, but when she knew I was straight, there was no more talk about it.  She was the best friend ever, lots of good times shared, and neither of us dwelled on our sexuality.  I've never in my life been harassed by a lesbian woman, but have had to put a few male jerks in their place over the years.


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## GDAD (Nov 30, 2013)

Fern said:


> GDad,
> 
> Didn't you say that gays aren't interested in heterosexuals. If they weren't interested, then would they be bothered.!  What do you get from sexually joking around,  all about their prowess!
> My hubby knew how to handle the guy next door when he was propositioned at a neighbourly get together, just by giving hand signals on size, as was being done to him,  (take it as you will) hubby hasn't been bothered since.
> ...


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## Katybug (Nov 30, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> You're right That Guy!  My friend did have an interest in me at first, but when she knew I was straight, there was no more talk about it.  She was the best friend ever, lots of good times shared, and neither of us dwelled on our sexuality.
> 
> *I've never in my life been harassed by a lesbian woman, but have had to put a few male jerks in their place over the years.*



Me neither, SB, just that one who ran her hands through my hair at a party (tho she was a hairdresser, I'd never met her -- way too personal) and suggested I call her and she would work "miracles" w/my hair.  Yeah, right!  I quickly wandered away and we didn't talk again.  

Ditto on the male jerks who are 100 x worse, especially if they're drinking!  All the gay guys I know/have known & close to were aware from childhood they were gay and have never had a g/f, but we're only talking a half doz or so. 

A very dear friend of decades shocked me royally.  She was a well educated early widow (late 20's) & earning big bucks as a sales rep for a nationally known company when she lived here. She seemed to always have a great guy in her life.  After a few yrs she married a wonderful & very devoted man and they relocated to a very trendy area of CO. She started her own business there and I visited them for a week yrs ago...left so touched by how happy they were and wishing I could find even close to the same.  Then, instead of our usual phone calls, I rec'd a handwritten letter telling me they had separated and she was deeply in love with a woman!  That may have been the biggest shocker of my life, in that she always had a boyfriend/husband and seemed to love men.  I've been around her one to one for over 20 yrs (at that time) and never picked up the slightest clue. She had fallen in love with a woman she met at a business convention.  Dear Gawd, I'm not over it yet and it's been over 15 yrs -- not at all that she's gay, just that I had known her to be so totally opposite.  Anyhoo, they became partners in business and life, still together.  I saw them on nat'l TV a few yrs ago/business related and saw her partner.  She was as butchy as could be.  My friend has always come across as feminine....that is, til she came out & got herself a short/spiked hair style.   For me, it's much tougher to accept once you've known them one way for so long. Those who are obvious upfront, you don't give a 2nd thought to.  It was a little overwhelming at the time and I got lost in it. After all those great yrs of friendship we've lost touch and I'm not proud of that at all!


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## That Guy (Dec 1, 2013)

Fern said:


> That guy,
> You've got that wrong. Being 'propositioned' by lesbians, is something I don't appreciate and our gay neighbours really 'loove' to 'come on' to the ladies. As they say, 'any port in a storm'. 'dirty ducks dabble in a dirty pond'.



Then, ya just give 'em the 'ol brush off like anyone else making unwanted advances.  If that doesn't stop 'em, may I recommend the tried and true punch in the nose.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 1, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Then, ya just give 'em the 'ol brush off like anyone else making unwanted advances.  If that doesn't stop 'em, may I recommend the tried and true punch in the nose.



*GASP!*

Are you ... are you advocating VIOLENCE against the differently-enabled? :upset:


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## babyboomer (Dec 1, 2013)

I had a conversation on the topic, with some friends. They are very "Biaist" on the subject, in their own ignorance.
I asked them a couple of a question:" If you were critically ill, and there was a doctor who is gay, and a top specialist in his field, would you refuse his help?"
The second question was: " if any of your childern, or granchildren turn out "gay", would you abandond them?" 
They were reluctant to answer, but those two questions  gave them something to think about.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 1, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Then, ya just give 'em the 'ol brush off like anyone else making unwanted advances.



I agree.  At our age, we should have plenty of experience in putting a stop to unwanted advances from _either _sex.  I have no problem making myself clear to others that they need to back off.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 1, 2013)

babyboomer said:


> I had a conversation on the topic, with some friends. They are very "Biaist" on the subject, in their own ignorance.
> I asked them a couple of a question:" If you were critically ill, and there was a doctor who is gay, and a top specialist in his field, would you refuse his help?"
> The second question was: " if any of your childern, or granchildren turn out "gay", would you abandond them?"
> They were reluctant to answer, but those two questions  gave them something to think about.



I wouldn't hesitate a NO answer for either question...if they were reluctant to answer, then they are definitely homophobic.


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## Katybug (Dec 1, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> From one extreme ...
> 
> View attachment 3682
> 
> ...



Was it Key West, Phil?  I know  you love it there and so do I, but there are a lot of gays there.  Doesn't phase me, I'd give anything to be there right now.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 2, 2013)

Katybug said:


> Was it Key West, Phil?  I know  you love it there and so do I, but there are a lot of gays there.  Doesn't phase me, I'd give anything to be there right now.



No, actually it was Greenwich Village in lower Manhattan, but yes, there's a high population of gays in Key West as well. 

Speaking of which, I think it is at their urgings that there are so many unique "holidays" and parades and events in Key West year-round. Some, like the Zombie Bike Ride, I've participated in, but Tutu Tuesday I managed to avoid every time. :turnaround:

Both Greenwich Village and Key West afforded very colorful and active surroundings, a key I think to enjoying your chosen place of residence.


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## That Guy (Dec 2, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> *GASP!*
> 
> Are you ... are you advocating VIOLENCE against the differently-enabled? :upset:



Just suggesting that NO means NO to anyone and everyone in any language.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 2, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Just suggesting that NO means NO to anyone and everyone in any language.



Yeah, I know ... and as we both know sometimes that NO falls on deaf ears ...  happens to me every time I go out in public.


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## Katybug (Dec 2, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> No, actually it was Greenwich Village in lower Manhattan, but yes, there's a high population of gays in Key West as well.
> 
> Speaking of which, I think it is at their urgings that there are so many unique "holidays" and parades and events in Key West year-round. Some, like the Zombie Bike Ride, I've participated in, but Tutu Tuesday I managed to avoid every time. :turnaround:
> 
> Both Greenwich Village and Key West afforded very colorful and active surroundings, a key I think to enjoying your chosen place of residence.



I've had the opportunity to visit married friends in the Village many times....never even noticed the gay influence.  Nor do I here unless they're showing PDA.    

I love the Village, for totally different reasons than Key West, of course, but how lucky you were to live there.  I was in awe of the energy & colorful atmosphere .  First time there our host was preparing Sushi (had barely heard of it at the time) and we went shopping in a small/locally owned groc (a type I wasn't used to at all, with primarily specialty items -- now they're everywhere!) I was told Jackie Kennedy shopped there regularly. (Later read that this groc was one of her favorites, well after she was no longer shopping and/or had staff doing that!)  I was starstruck to say the least...but we're talking 30 yrs ago! I would've loved the opportunity to live there, but only when I was much younger!  Far too much hassle these days.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 3, 2013)

Katybug said:


> ...  Far too much hassle these days.



Exactly my thoughts, in addition to the expenses of living there. I was renting a 6,000SF loft for living / work and it cost $2,000/mn back in the mid-'70's. That same loft is now going for $9,000/mn. 



> I've had the opportunity to visit married friends in the Village many  times....never even noticed the gay influence.  Nor do I here unless  they're showing PDA.



Ah, you mean you never heard of the infamous Stonewall riots? The Village was at the forefront of rabble-rousing in the name of LBGT rights. And you're right about the color and energy - it was amazing.


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## Katybug (Dec 3, 2013)

babyboomer said:


> I had a conversation on the topic, with some friends. They are very "Biaist" on the subject, in their own ignorance.
> I asked them a couple of a question:" If you were critically ill, and there was a doctor who is gay, and a top specialist in his field, would you refuse his help?"
> The second question was: " if any of your childern, or granchildren turn out "gay", would you abandond them?"
> They were reluctant to answer, but those two questions  gave them something to think about.



My g'daughter tells me that attitude against gays makes you seem so old..."that younger people don't think that way."  I didn't say it, she did!


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## Katybug (Dec 3, 2013)

*Phil:  Ah, you mean you never heard of the infamous Stonewall riots**? The Village was at the forefront of rabble-rousing in the name of LBGT rights. And you're right about the color and energy - it was amazing.
*
No, but not like I was there on a regular basis...always a week and 2-3 summer long wk-ends for 5 yrs.  We were always on our way to Fire Island (with our friends sharing their "shares.") so I didn't get to know nearly enough about any part of NYC as much as I would have preferred.   A half day & night and then on our way to Bay Shore to catch the ferry to the Island. 

Other posts will tell you how I feel about the beach, but Fire Island is something else...Cape Cod with a lil bit of Caribbean flavor thrown in.  Despite the reputation, there really are many "hetro's"/families that enjoy the escape from the city.  I know you know that...just a short distance from the Hamptons and a tad more affordable....I will always treasure those times.

I can't even wrap my brain around the sq footage you had in NYC.  The apartment our friends had allowed 1 person in the kitchen, same as the bathroom, and 1 bedroom that even w/my short arms could almost touch either side and they were paying a small fortune for it..by the standard I know.  We slept on a pull outta the wall Murphy's bed in the living room!  


Whew!  6,000 s.f. in any part of the City sounds like a Trump home!   Here and most other large cities the square footage is fairly common for the wealthy,  but at a mere fraction of the cost.


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## That Guy (Dec 4, 2013)

A jerk is a jerk is a jerk no matter gender nor orientation.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 4, 2013)

Katybug said:


> No, but not like I was there on a regular basis...always a week and 2-3 summer long wk-ends for 5 yrs.  We were always on our way to Fire Island (with our friends sharing their "shares.") so I didn't get to know nearly enough about any part of NYC as much as I would have preferred.   A half day & night and then on our way to Bay Shore to catch the ferry to the Island.
> 
> Other posts will tell you how I feel about the beach, but Fire Island is something else...Cape Cod with a lil bit of Caribbean flavor thrown in.  Despite the reputation, there really are many "hetro's"/families that enjoy the escape from the city.  I know you know that...just a short distance from the Hamptons and a tad more affordable....I will always treasure those times.




Ah, Fire Island ... the OTHER Rainbow-By-The-Sea. layful: 

I prefer Southampton - had a few good hetero memories there ... 



> I can't even wrap my brain around the sq footage you had in NYC.  The apartment our friends had allowed 1 person in the kitchen, same as the bathroom, and 1 bedroom that even w/my short arms could almost touch either side and they were paying a small fortune for it..by the standard I know.  We slept on a pull outta the wall Murphy's bed in the living room!
> 
> Whew!  6,000 s.f. in any part of the City sounds like a Trump home!   Here and most other large cities the square footage is fairly common for the wealthy,  but at a mere fraction of the cost.



It was a combination of luck and hard work. The luck part was that I was going out with a Realtor who found the deal for me; the hard work was going out with the Realtor who found the deal for me. 

But seriously, folks  ... I was doing extremely well as a young man in NYC, with enough income between my martial arts / Chinese medicine studio and my bouncing and escort work to be able to afford what at the time was quite an expensive place. Now you'd be lucky to get a 1-bedroom walk-up for the same price in the Village - it's a lot like Key West that way.


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## Katybug (Dec 4, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> Ah, Fire Island ... the OTHER Rainbow-By-The-Sea. layful:
> 
> I prefer Southampton - had a few good hetero memories there ...
> 
> ...



You were doing extremely well for yourself, Phil.    I'm not familiar with any parts of the Hamptons/Southampton area.  But it can't be that far from Fire Island, just more upscale. Anything with "Hamptons" seems to mean wealth. Fire Island is not pretentious at all, as you know, 2-story Cape Cod shingles built decades ago....nothing the wealthy would stay in, but more than a small fortune for those who live as I do.  They make more there, and they are charged accordingly.  

And so far as living in any part of NYC -- "if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere"...and if you don't believe me, ask Liza Minneli!  Best "New York, New York" singer ever!  

Being able to merely exist in any part of NYC is more than I would have ever wanted to take on. You did it and the memories must be a wonderful bonus.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 4, 2013)

We used to rent a tiny bungalow in Hampton Bays for the summers, and I once saw Lisa Minneli playing Frisbee in Central Park.


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## Katybug (Dec 4, 2013)

Phil, I knew Key West was very expensive, but wasn't aware it was that expensive!  I've only been as a guest.


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## Katybug (Dec 4, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> Ah, Fire Island ... the OTHER Rainbow-By-The-Sea. layful:
> 
> I prefer Southampton - had a few good hetero memories there ...
> 
> ...



Details on "escort work," if you weren't kidding....surely you were!  LOL


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## RedRibbons (Dec 4, 2013)

I have never had a problem with anyone being gay. I figure it is none of my business what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. I have also had several gay friends. I was hit on a couple of times by women I thought were straight. I was shocked, as I am and have always been straight and they knew that. I just don't understand why anyone would do that, if they know the other person is straight.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 4, 2013)

Katybug said:


> Phil, I knew Key West was very expensive, but wasn't aware it was that expensive!  I've only been as a guest.



An average 1-bedroom / 1-bath rents for around $1,500 there. 



Katybug said:


> Details on "escort work," if you weren't kidding....surely you were!  LOL



Not kidding, but I don't think this is the forum for it - sorry.


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## Jackie22 (Dec 5, 2013)

I've known a few men that were gay, they were very intelligent and funny....always fun to talk to.  Homosexuality is not a problem with me and of course there are extremes out there as there is in any sector of the human race.

As for being hit on....one time while I was out shopping, the sales lady struck up a conversation, when I got home, opened up my bag and there was her phone number...lol


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## Katybug (Dec 5, 2013)

I totally enjoy being around gay men, always have, you're very safe with them.  We seem to have so much more in common, or that's been the case for me, as they enjoy doing girl stuff with us.  They are fun to dine with (love nice restaurants), fun to shop with in stores most men wouldn't be caught dead,  and great to share affairs of the heart with.  They're always on "our" side with big shoulders to cry on, or the ones I've known have been..sensitive like women.  And I especially love their honesty with us, they tell us if it makes our butt look too big!  LOL  

JACKIE, I've only had that one experience and I guess both women had the attitude in approaching straights is .."well, Columbus took a chance."   I didn't appreciate it either, but it was obviously worth a shot to them!  LOL


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## Jackie22 (Dec 5, 2013)

Katybug said:


> I totally enjoy being around gay men, always have, you're very safe with them.  We seem to have so much more in common, or that's been the case for me, as they enjoy doing girl stuff with us.  They are fun to dine with (love nice restaurants), fun to shop with in stores most men wouldn't be caught dead,  and great to share affairs of the heart with.  They're always on "our" side with big shoulders to cry on, or the ones I've known have been..sensitive like women.  And I especially love their honesty with us, they tell us if it makes our butt look too big!  LOL
> 
> JACKIE, I've only had that one experience and I guess both women had the attitude in approaching straights is .."well, Columbus took a chance."   I didn't appreciate it either, but it was obviously worth a shot to them!  LOL



Yes, Katy, I agree on the 'being around gay men', I used to have a gay hairdresser, it was always such fun when I went there, I felt totally free to discuss anything with him and he brightened up my outlook for days.....he had this special quality with everyone he came into contact with, he was loved by all that knew him.  Honest and sensitive....very good descriptive words for the gays that I've known.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 5, 2013)

So if you ladies love palling around with gays so much, why not marry them? They sound like the perfect partner ...


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## Jackie22 (Dec 5, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> So if you ladies love palling around with gays so much, why not marry them? They sound like the perfect partner ...



LOL....who wants to get married, all you have to do is get your hair done.layful:


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## Katybug (Dec 5, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> So if you ladies love palling around with gays so much, why not marry them? They sound like the perfect partner ...



Silly man!  You know very well there's a very definite reason why we don't want to marry them, nor they us if we have no $$$. Only the aging & super wealthy women do that just so they have a companion -- and he's in it strictly for the money. (Liza Minelli has done it twice, once when she was younger, but Peter Allen was in the closet at the time, I think.  Last one knocked you down being gay and she was foolish & very desperate to take that jerk on!)   

Not for a second do I believe these relationships include romance.  Same w/much younger/arm candy straight women marrying very old men like Hugh Hefner!  PULEEZE!!!!    

Are you a tad jealous, dear Phil, that we find them so appealing as friends?  LOL (wink!)


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## SifuPhil (Dec 5, 2013)

Katybug said:


> Are you a tad jealous, dear Phil, that we find them so appealing as friends?  LOL (wink!)



Not at all - just remember that they're _only_ that and _can_ _be_ only that. And don't cry when you start to miss those dear old testosterone-fueled traits. 

You gals want the best of all possible worlds - you want a non-threatening man, but when you find one you complain that he's boring; you want a sensitive man, then you carp when he cries too much; you want a presentable man, but hate arguing over where he can store all his skin cremes and moisturizing shampoos; you check off the little box under "Friend" or "Lover" within the first two minutes of meeting us, then wonder why we go and leave you. You don't respect us as men when we're your friend and you can't tolerate us as a friend if we act like a man. 

And don't say that it's a woman's prerogative to want both - waterboarding is a less torturous method of achieving that kind of balance. 

I'm not jealous, dear Katy - I'm experienced.


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## TICA (Dec 5, 2013)

Works both ways Phil!   In some ways you are quite correct in that we want the best of all possible worlds although I don't agree that we complain when a non-threatening man is boring; carp when a sensitive man cries to much etc etc.

Most women just want a PARTNER.   Someone they can be themselves around, a man who is not all ego, a man who does not put her down ever, and a man who is supportive.  I don't know why men (at least the ones I've been involved with) find that so difficult.     

The bottom line is that most gay men can be all of those things without even trying.    That my Dear is why women relate really well with gay men.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 5, 2013)

TICA said:


> Works both ways Phil!   In some ways you are quite correct in that we want the best of all possible worlds although I don't agree that we complain when a non-threatening man is boring; carp when a sensitive man cries to much etc etc.



Meh ... experience ... 



> Most women just want a PARTNER.   Someone they can be themselves around, a man who is not all ego, a man who does not put her down ever, and a man who is supportive.  I don't know why men (at least the ones I've been involved with) find that so difficult.



If I may be so bold as to re-do this paragraph ...



> Most women just want a PROVIDER.   Someone they can be themselves  around (nasty), a man who is not all ego (but then berate him for being a wimp), a man who does not put her down ever (even while she's emasculating him),  and a man who is supportive (financially).





> The bottom line is that most gay men can be all of those things without even trying.    That my Dear is why women relate really well with gay men.



And those same gay men have a whole different set of emotional luggage to deal with ... but since it's similar in appearance to the female's it seems to be easier to cope. 

It's a bit difficult to override our native programming, but that's what happens when a straight gal hooks up with a gay guy. He's just another girlfriend to her, so if she isn't herself gay she's going to be left wanting in a lot of areas. So why put forth the effort needed to be friends with a fake girl when the biological imperative is to hook up with a straight man? What do you gain with a gay man that you don't get with a straight girlfriend?


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## TICA (Dec 5, 2013)

No - you cannot be so bold and re-do my paragraph...    I've been married twice - yup - you think I would have learned the first time.   In both cases, I ended up being the provider and NEVER have been supported by a man.  Both of them threatened me with paying them alimony.  Two children on my own and they had the balls to request alimony.  Just another way they thought to be intimidating.

I'm not saying I would ever marry a gay man - I'll never marry again anyway, but I'm not so badly put off men that I'd marry a gay one.  I have lots of friends that are male (not gay) so if I was going to marry a friend, it wouldn't be a gay one.  Cheating is cheating in my mind so regardless of if a husband cheats with a man or a woman, it is still cheating.

Lots of gay men are not like women at all.   I think there is a misconception among men that girlfriends sit around and spill their inner soul.  My experience is that that is not true at all.   Lots of women sit around bitching about their men and to be truthful, I never did that and didn't want to listen to it either.  No woman that I know spills their innermost secrets to her best girlfriend.  I hate to admit it, but the women friends I have can't be trusted to keep a secret, therefore, I won't tell them mine.

What do you gain with a gay man that you don't get with a straight girlfriend?   Arms to hold you when in despair, a man's point of view (gay men are men after all), a tendency to be more open in our conversations.   I'm not saying all gay men are like that, but the ones I knew were close.  Someone to go out with and not be worried about being hit on.  And...... the best part is that gay men LOVE to dance.   Good times all around!!!


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## Old Hipster (Dec 5, 2013)

I've known some gay men who absolutely hated women, there are some very "butch" gay men, for lack of a better word and they do not like straight females at all. 

Shoot I'm at work and it's lunchtime..

I'll be back later!


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## SifuPhil (Dec 5, 2013)

TICA said:


> ... a man's point of view (gay men are men after all) ...



Not by MY definition of the word ... biologically, yes, but mentally, emotionally, and socially? No way. You might as well ask a mouse how the cat feels. 

Sorry if that isn't PC but it's how I feel, and you should appreciate me baring my soul.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 5, 2013)

Old Hipster said:


> I've known some gay men who absolutely hated women, there are some very "butch" gay men, for lack of a better word and they do not like straight females at all.



Exactly. And I've known a few (to use a _very_ non-PC term from the '70's) "fag-hags" that made it their goal in life to collect as many gay men into their clique as possible in order to be the queen bee. They wanted to exercise their sense of power and control, no straight man worth his salt would allow them to do so, so they did it with gay men.


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## TICA (Dec 5, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> Not by MY definition of the word ... biologically, yes, but mentally, emotionally, and socially? No way. You might as well ask a mouse how the cat feels.
> 
> Sorry if that isn't PC but it's how I feel, and you should appreciate me baring my soul.



Baring of souls is always appreciated!    I could have reworded the comment about gay men are men.  What I mean is that every man has spent more time around other men than I have.  I think they just understand the male mind more than a woman could.   There are a whole lot of gay men out there that are not outwardly gay - sports jocks, CEO's, politicians, mechanics, teachers, doctors - and you would never know their ****** preference by their actions or appearance.    

Love hearing your point of view but my point is that I feel you suggesting that gay men are more like women than men and I don't agree.

Cookies are burning - I'll be back!


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## SifuPhil (Dec 5, 2013)

Oh, heavens to Betsy, the cookies are burning! Help! Assistance! *palms on face* layful:

I know I'm painting with a broad brush but I'm in one of those moods today. 



> Love hearing your point of view but my point is that I feel you  suggesting that gay men are more like women than men and I don't agree.



But isn't that the very point that is being made here? That they give a shoulder to cry on, they empathize, they hang out with the girls, they shop with the best of them and are great dancers?

According to society, that makes them more like women than men. 

Just as I'm stereotyping gay men I'm doing the same to straight men - they all drink beer, watch football, scratch themselves, can't dance and are totally without empathy. 

Being Taoist I agree that something in the middle would be nice, but seeking "balance" is a fool's journey - I should know, I've been teaching it my entire life. Having a perfectly balanced partner would be a horrible relationship. Without the energy, the dynamics, of occasional trips to the extreme ends of the scale life would be painfully boring. Forcing yourself into gender roles, whether they be gay, straight or any of the other permutations, is a death-trap, yet we are forced by society to do that exact thing. It's only the extremely brave and self-aware person that breaks out of those molds. 

Katy said I was jealous, but that isn't it. I'm pissed. I'm pissed because the gay friend is setting an impossibly high bar to reach, one that, if I chose to reach for it, would irrevocably change me into something I don't want to become. I enjoy being a man, thinking like a man and acting like a man, at least so far as my personal definition of "man" will cover, and in attempting to be more like your gay friends just to please you I am going against my own true nature. 

I suppose, as with your two husbands, we ultimately have only our own experiences to learn from. Yours is respectable and understandable. I hope you extend the same courtesy to mine.


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## TICA (Dec 5, 2013)

Well said and your opinion on seeking balance is respected as well.  As you said, you've been teaching that your whole life so I'll have to bow to your wisdom.

However...... I prefer to think that there is balance in all relationships and also realize they are not perfect.    There are many people on this forum that have been married for years and years and are still in love.  They obviously have been successful in finding their balance whereas we have not.   To be honest, I'm jealous that they have found that elusive thing that I have not been able to find.

Well, I guess this got off topic from the gay conversation.  Sorry!   The thing is that a friend is a friend and if that is a girl, a guy, a gay guy or a gay girl, they are still your friend.  My point is that their ****** preference shouldn't matter.   Really good friends are hard to come by so be loyal to those that are loyal to you.


I said earlier that I would want a partner (not a provider), and would also want someone who accepts me as I am.  I would give that partner the same acceptance and not try and change them.   I'm sure there must be few men out there that don't scratch themselves and drink beer - on second thought - maybe not.....


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## Old Hipster (Dec 5, 2013)

The most important characteristic in a person, something I really value is the ability to be silly, be able to laugh yourself's silly over the dumbest things, and things that don't even begin to make sense to anybody else.

I can do this with my husband, he is almost as silly as some of the gay men I knew. When me and the mister got together about 35 years ago, my best friend in the world was a gay man and we were inseperable. My very straight new boyfriend, my now husband, accepted him completely. I'll never forget a New Year's party I had and at the stroke of midnight, my future husband gave my gay friend a big sloppy kiss right on the lips. I thought that was the coolest thing ever. And it shocked the hell out of everybody. 

And no snide remarks from anybody (*cough cough* Phil :sentimental about anything creepy going on with the 3 of us.


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## TICA (Dec 6, 2013)

You are a very lucky woman Old Hipster and contrats on 35 years.


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## Old Hipster (Dec 6, 2013)

TICA said:


> You are a very lucky woman Old Hipster and contrats on 35 years.


Thank you TICA, we are both lucky, because we are a couple of odd ducks and we are pretty sure nobody else could put up with either one of us. :sentimental:


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## rkunsaw (Dec 6, 2013)

I am friendly toward everyone unless someone gives me a reason not to be friendly toward them. But as for being friends with a gay man.... that just won't happen. I was friendly to those I worked around but would never spend any amount of time with them than necessary.


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## That Guy (Dec 6, 2013)




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## Katybug (Dec 6, 2013)

TICA said:


> Works both ways Phil!   In some ways you are quite correct in that we want the best of all possible worlds although I don't agree that we complain when a non-threatening man is boring; carp when a sensitive man cries to much etc etc.
> 
> Most women just want a PARTNER.   Someone they can be themselves around, a man who is not all ego, a man who does not put her down ever, and a man who is supportive.  I don't know why men (at least the ones I've been involved with) find that so difficult.
> 
> The bottom line is that most gay men can be all of those things without even trying.    That my Dear is why women relate really well with gay men.



My feelings exactly.  So well stated, TICA!


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## Katybug (Dec 6, 2013)

rkunsaw said:


> I am friendly toward everyone unless someone gives me a reason not to be friendly toward them. But as for being friends with a gay man.... that just won't happen. I was friendly to those I worked around but would never spend any amount of time with them than necessary.



You're so funny, RK, as we would never expect a man to feel the way some of us women feel about gay men.  It's a girl thing. Too bad men don't have the same feelings about gay women, but I  totally understand -- the comparison is like apples to oranges.


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## GDAD (Dec 6, 2013)

Old Hipster said:


> The most important characteristic in a person, something I really value is the ability to be silly, be able to laugh yourself's silly over the dumbest things, and things that don't even begin to make sense to anybody else.
> 
> I can do this with my husband, he is almost as silly as some of the gay men I knew. When me and the mister got together about 35 years ago, my best friend in the world was a gay man and we were inseperable. My very straight new boyfriend, my now husband, accepted him completely. I'll never forget a New Year's party I had and at the stroke of midnight, my future husband gave my gay friend a big sloppy kiss right on the lips. I thought that was the coolest thing ever. And it shocked the hell out of everybody.
> 
> And no snide remarks from anybody (*cough cough* Phil :sentimental about anything creepy going on with the 3 of us.




Old Hippy: You & your hubby are exactly the same as My Wife & I.   WE HAVE* FRIENDS* THAT ARE GAY: NOT GAY FRIENDS.
We do not introduce our friends as "hi mark This is me lesbian/gay friend" We say "this is our friend" exactly the same
as we introduce all our other friends. ....cheers:cheers:


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## Old Hipster (Dec 6, 2013)

GDAD said:


> Old Hippy: You & your hubby are exactly the same as My Wife & I.   WE HAVE* FRIENDS* THAT ARE GAY: NOT GAY FRIENDS.
> We do not introduce our friends as "hi mark This is me lesbian/gay friend" We say "this is our friend" exactly the same
> as we introduce all our other friends. ....cheers:cheers:


Well said! I see I did say "my gay friend" but would never say that in person if I was introducing somebody or just talking about my friend or friends in general. Sadly my friend is no long around, he moved to New York and we lost track of each other.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 7, 2013)




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## Katybug (Dec 9, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> Oh, heavens to Betsy, the cookies are burning! Help! Assistance! *palms on face* layful:
> 
> I know I'm painting with a broad brush but I'm in one of those moods today.
> 
> ...



*I am so sorry, Phil, if you are upset.  As to my post, **I asked if you were jealous.  My closest friends, closest one being my daughter, have discussed this often. There is no gay man who is going to appeal to us in any way other than as a close friend.  You have to have the testosterone to keep the relationship going. They make wonderful friends, but that's as far as it goes on either side and zero expectations, on my part, for you guys to live up to that. It's impossible, just as most of us ladies can't hang in there w/your guy stuff/interests, and I know you don't expect us to.  If I find a straight man that truly wants to go clothes shopping with me, I'll suspect dementia!  It's just not normal.  Mars vs Venus and the world goes round....*


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## SifuPhil (Dec 9, 2013)

Katybug said:


> *...  If I find a straight man that truly wants to go clothes shopping with me, I'll suspect dementia!  It's just not normal.  Mars vs Venus and the world goes round....*



... and yet clothes shopping with my lady used to be one of my favorite activities, especially in the dressing room at Saks Fifth Avenue ... 

Any task is doable, if the reward is sufficient.


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## Katybug (Dec 10, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> ... and yet clothes shopping with my lady used to be one of my favorite activities, especially in the dressing room at Saks Fifth Avenue ...
> 
> Any task is doable, if the reward is sufficient.



What can I say, dear Phil, you're one of a kind!  But I know darned good and well what you were doing in the Saks' dressing room.  Naughty, naughty boy, you are!  LOL


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