# Wales is not the place to be...



## Furryanimal

I am Welsh...but i wish i wasn’t!
It has just been announced that from Friday evening until November 9th Wales will be in a complete lockdown.We have all been told to stay at home and are only allowed out to shop and access medical services.Most businesses will be closed again.Not that some have ever reopened.I don’t think anyone believes this will just be for two weeks.
Not only that,our bully of a leader has made it clear that he will not allow life to return to normal until there is a vaccine.There is little chance of that and you won’t get me having one until i’m sure it is safe.
So there we have it.If you live in Wales you are condemned to just exist forevermore.
I don’t want to live here anymore.Time to sell up and move to England.But who the hell would be mad enough to buy a house here?
I need to live....but it is clear Community rugby will never return here,concert venues will not reopen and i see little chance of being allowed to return to watching cricket come April.Everything i live for gone.
The only thing that has to be answered is how soon i end up in the Psychiatric ward.I am heading there at a rate of knots.
We cannot be expected to live like this.


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## Aunt Marg

I don't envy the situation you're in, Furry.

In the news here in Canada (Winnipeg, Manitoba), a few Provinces away from where we reside, has tightened restrictions. No more than 5 people in a gathering, stand-alone nightclubs, bars and beverage rooms (which are attached to hotels) are now closed, as are casinos, video lottery lounges and bingo halls. Entertainment facilities with live entertainment are also closed.

Restaurants, lounges, retail locations, museums and libraries are limited to 50% capacity, and at restaurants, groups at tables will also be limited to five people and physical distancing must be in place.

Indoor businesses will also be required to keep logs of people who visit in order to help with contact tracing, including theatres, museums, galleries, libraries and fitness facilities.

The number of spectators at after-school activities and all sporting events will be reduced to 25% of a site's capacity.

*All of the tightening of restrictions are a direct result of people in their 20's (NOT LISTENING AND PRACTICING SAFE MEASURES).*


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## Aneeda72

Yes, you can and will.  I wish there were stronger rules here.  Over 200,000 dead, perhaps you would like to live here, go out as usual, and play Russian roulette every time you leave the house.  I see our children playing on playgrounds-no masks.

I see groups of high schoolers, young adults, standing on the corner, masks around their necks, after going to the store at lunch break.  I see people refusing to wear masks although masks are required.

I see super spreader events, hospitals overcrowded, and people dying.  Yes, move here and live free.  Or, put your big boy pants on and deal with it.  Time for tough love @Furryanimal.


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## Aneeda72

In addition, Utah is being discussed on CNN due to the increase of the virus here.  We are at 15% positive rate.  They are blaming it on the schools, of course.  Children will not keep masks on.  They give it to their parents and grandparents.  You think you will go crazy, staying home.

Imagine a generation of children and the guilt some of them will carry for killing their parents and grandparents.  Mental health professionals will make a ton of money.

Edited:  I would move my entire family to Wales if I had the money.


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## Aunt Marg

Aneeda72 said:


> In addition, Utah is being discussed on CNN due to the increase of the virus here.  We are at 15% positive rate.  They are blaming it on the schools, of course.  Children will not keep masks on.  They give it to their parents and grandparents.  You think you will go crazy, staying home.
> 
> Imagine a generation of children and the guilt some of them will carry for killing their parents and grandparents.  Mental health professionals will make a ton of money.


Here in British Columbia Canada, middle and secondary school students and staff are required to wear masks in high traffic areas like hallways. All staff and students in B.C. middle and secondary schools are required to wear masks in areas where physical distancing cannot be maintained, yet whenever I drive-by school yards in passing, I see upwards of 100 students outside huddled around together, and none are wearing masks.

All of the lockdowns, closures, and tighter restrictions are going to continue to plague society so long as people choose to buck the system and make up their own rules and do their own thing.


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## StarSong

Aneeda72 said:


> In addition, Utah is being discussed on CNN due to the increase of the virus here. We are at 15% positive rate. They are blaming it on the schools, of course. *Children will not keep masks on. *They give it to their parents and grandparents. You think you will go crazy, staying home.


ADULTS won't keep masks on, can't imagine what makes school admins and parents think kids will do so.  Teenagers and people in their early 20s are hard wired to be risk-takers.  We all know this.  Why we are pretending otherwise baffles me.      

Increased virus rates following schools and colleges reopenings was utterly predictable.        

@Furryanimal, have the virus rates spiked in Wales?


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## Aunt Marg

Aneeda72 said:


> In addition, Utah is being discussed on CNN due to the increase of the virus here.  We are at 15% positive rate.  They are blaming it on the schools, of course.  *Children will not keep masks on*.  They give it to their parents and grandparents.  You think you will go crazy, staying home.
> 
> Imagine a generation of children and the guilt some of them will carry for killing their parents and grandparents.  Mental health professionals will make a ton of money.
> 
> Edited:  I would move my entire family to Wales if I had the money.


Expel those students then! Send them home!

You don't want to listen, go home!

I am so sick and tired of watching the namby-pamby ways of society nowadays, all of the kowtowing going on to accommodate people who are bent on doing their own thing.


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## StarSong

Maybe we should just beat them.


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## Aunt Marg

StarSong said:


> Maybe we should just beat them.


Why would you want to beat them?


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## StarSong

I was being snarky.


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## Furryanimal

Aunt Marg said:


> I don't envy the situation you're in, Furry.
> 
> In the news here in Canada (Winnipeg, Manitoba), a few Provinces away from where we reside, has tightened restrictions. No more than 5 people in a gathering, stand-alone nightclubs, bars and beverage rooms (which are attached to hotels) are now closed, as are casinos, video lottery lounges and bingo halls. Entertainment facilities with live entertainment are also closed.
> 
> Restaurants, lounges, retail locations, museums and libraries are limited to 50% capacity, and at restaurants, groups at tables will also be limited to five people and physical distancing must be in place.
> 
> Indoor businesses will also be required to keep logs of people who visit in order to help with contact tracing, including theatres, museums, galleries, libraries and fitness facilities.
> 
> The number of spectators at after-school activities and all sporting events will be reduced to 25% of a site's capacity.
> 
> *All of the tightening of restrictions are a direct result of people in their 20's (NOT LISTENING AND PRACTICING SAFE MEASURES).*


We have been told we are not to meet anyone,including outdoors,who is not from our household.I am my household!And having dug a bit deeper we are even being discouraged from going shopping!But bizarrely schools are remaining open!


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## Aunt Marg

Furryanimal said:


> We have been told we are not to meet anyone,including outdoors,who is from our household.I am my household!And having dug a bit deeper we are even being discouraged from going shopping!But bizarrely schools are remaining open!


I'm lost for words.

One thing is for certain, the more people that choose to buck the system and make up their own rules, the longer and more intense this whole affair will be.


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## Aneeda72

Aunt Marg said:


> Why would you want to beat them?


Superglue the masks on, they won’t rip them off.  Won’t risk Messing up their pretty faces


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## Aunt Marg

Aneeda72 said:


> Superglue the masks on, they won’t rip them off.  Won’t risk Messing up their pretty faces


I like my solution, send them home, and at the end of the school year instead of joining their class in graduating, or moving onto the next grade, they can stick around and repeat.

Maybe then those who fall into the category of the self-serving generation will get the drift.


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## Furryanimal

Furryanimal said:


> We have been told we not to meet anyone,including outdoors,who is from our household.I am my household!And having dug a bit deeper we are even being discouraged from going shopping!


?


StarSong said:


> ADULTS won't keep masks on, can't imagine what makes school admins and parents think kids will do so.  Teenagers and people in their early 20s are hard wired to be risk-takers.  We all know this.  Why we are pretending otherwise baffles me.
> 
> Increased virus rates following schools and colleges reopenings was utterly predictable.
> 
> @Furryanimal, have the virus rates spiked in Wales?


yes-but they are no worse than other parts of Britain which are not being subjected to such draconian measures and it is better than some European countries which aren’t either.We are not allowed to discuss politics here but there is a feeling we are being treated like this because of political points scoring.Each country of UK is responsible for it’s own health policies as a result of devolved powers.


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## Aneeda72

Aunt Marg said:


> I like my solution, send them home, and at the end of the school year instead of joining their class in graduating, or moving onto the next grade, they can stick around and repeat.
> 
> Maybe then those who fall into the category of the self-serving generation will get the drift.


This will never happen!  Imagine the lawsuits.


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## Aneeda72

Furryanimal said:


> ?
> 
> yes-but they are no worse than other parts of Britain which are not being subjected to such draconian measures and it is better than some European countries which aren’t either.We are not allowed to discuss politics here but there is a feeling we are being treated like this because of political points scoring.Each country of UK is responsible for it’s own health policies as a result of devolved powers.


I just saw on CNN England is considering a new lockdown, better not move there.  USA is your only hope.


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## Aunt Marg

Aneeda72 said:


> This will never happen!  Imagine the lawsuits.


No, I can't imagine lawsuits, and in fact, any lawsuits filed by people not abiding by stringent criteria and guidelines set out by governing parties related to Covid-19, those lawsuits should be reversed, and a lawsuit brought down on those who aren't living up to the health and safety measures implemented.

That would quickly quash all of this foolish lawsuit talk.

It's simple, we are experiencing a pandemic world-wide at this time, do as you're told.


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## Furryanimal

Aneeda72 said:


> Yes, you can and will.  I wish there were stronger rules here.  Over 200,000 dead, perhaps you would like to live here, go out as usual, and play Russian roulette every time you leave the house.  I see our children playing on playgrounds-no masks.
> 
> I see groups of high schoolers, young adults, standing on the corner, masks around their necks, after going to the store at lunch break.  I see people refusing to wear masks although masks are required.
> 
> I see super spreader events, hospitals overcrowded, and people dying.  Yes, move here and live free.  Or, put your big boy pants on and deal with it.  Time for tough love @Furryanimal.


Well, what is clear here is that we are going around in circles.Lockdown does not work unless it is utterly draconian and permanent.Two weeks will not change anything.And having been told we will not be allowed to return to normal until there is a vaccine that means there is no hope.Because there may never be one.And less than twenty miles from me-in England-i could live much more normally than here.Having had no social contact since March-apart from two days when lockdown eased-i am desperate for some normality.Living alone through this is taking it’s taking it’s toll on me.I fear we will still be where we are now this time next year.Tough love?I have followed all the rules.That includes wearing a mask despite the fact my glasses fog up.Most people have.But Wales has had tougher rules all the way through.And it has got us nowhere.


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## Furryanimal

Aneeda72 said:


> I just saw on CNN England is considering a new lockdown, better not move there.  USA is your only hope.


Boris,though,is desperate  not to do that.My problem is that an island should have a national strategy.We are not so big that we can have three different sets of rules.As i keep saying the virus does not change in nature at an arbitary border


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## Pepper

Aneeda72 said:


> I just saw on CNN England is considering a new lockdown, better not move there.  USA is your only hope.


Sweden.  They are herding in Sweden.


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## Aneeda72

Pepper said:


> Sweden.  They are herding in Sweden.


Do you mean hurting?  @Pepper


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## Furryanimal

Furryanimal said:


> ?
> 
> yes-but they are no worse than other parts of Britain which are not being subjected to such draconian measures and it is better than some European countries which aren’t either.We are not allowed to discuss politics here but there is a feeling we are being treated like this because of political points scoring.Each country of UK is responsible for it’s own health policies as a result of devolved powers.


I missed a crucial’not’ out!Corrected on the original post!


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## Pepper

No @Aneeda72.  The Herd, where we take our chances.  If you die or get critically ill, so be it.  I believe in order for it to work 60% of the population must be infected.  Business as usual.


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## StarSong

Aunt Marg said:


> I like my solution, send them home, and at the end of the school year instead of joining their class in graduating, or moving onto the next grade, they can stick around and repeat.


We are talking about children.  Draconian punishments mystify me because they're so, well, punitive.  Not helpful, not edifying, not a life lesson.  Punitive.  

Why would anyone punish children so drastically for being the immature creatures we know them to be?  After all, the adults in charge have presumably had years of child development education plus hands-on experience.  They KNOW children are impulsive, ego-centric and have difficulty with delayed gratification.   

We teach our children not to cross the street without looking both ways, but because we know that chasing after a ball may distract them from that lesson, we have reduced speed limits in school zones and crossing guards at the intersections. We tell them that medicine isn't candy, but the law nevertheless requires child-proof caps. We tell them to say away from the pool but fence around it just in case. We tell them to stay away from alcohol but the long arm of the law much more heavily punishes the clerk and store who sells it to minors. 

Why? Because adults know better. 

Bottom line, if schools cannot be safely opened, then they should remain closed. If reopenings fail, those failures belong to the administrators, not the students.


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## CarolfromTX

Furryanimal said:


> Boris,though,is desperate  not to do that.My problem is that an island should have a national strategy.We are not so big that we can have three different sets of rules.As i keep saying the virus does not change in nature at an arbitary border


It's like having a peeing section in the swimming pool. NYC has different rules than someplace 20 miles away. It's not about staying safe; it's about government control.


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## Aneeda72

Pepper said:


> No @Aneeda72.  The Herd, where we take our chances.  If you die or get critically ill, so be it.  I believe in order for it to work 60% of the population must be infected.  Business as usual.


Oh, ok, could not figure that out, duh, me,


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## Pepper

Aneeda72 said:


> Oh, ok, could not figure that out, duh, me,


And I couldn't think of the word 'immunity.'  It's called 'herd immunity.'


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## Aneeda72

Pepper said:


> And I couldn't think of the word 'immunity.'  It's called 'herd immunity.'


Of course, the doctors have said, recently, there is no such thing, just saying what had been said, and what I said at the beginning of all this.  (Yes, I am a “I told you so” person.  )


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## Pepper

Aneeda72 said:


> Of course, the doctors have said, recently, there is no such thing, just saying what had been said, and what I said at the beginning of all this.  (Yes, I am a “I told you so” person.  )


That's okay.  This is a great strain on most of us, and we all want out.  Somehow.  Sometime.


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## Lewkat

Furryanimal said:


> I am Welsh...but i wish i wasn’t!
> It has just been announced that from Friday evening until November 9th Wales will be in a complete lockdown.We have all been told to stay at home and are only allowed out to shop and access medical services.Most businesses will be closed again.Not that some have ever reopened.I don’t think anyone believes this will just be for two weeks.
> Not only that,our bully of a leader has made it clear that he will not allow life to return to normal until there is a vaccine.There is little chance of that and you won’t get me having one until i’m sure it is safe.
> So there we have it.If you live in Wales you are condemned to just exist forevermore.
> I don’t want to live here anymore.Time to sell up and move to England.But who the hell would be mad enough to buy a house here?
> I need to live....but it is clear Community rugby will never return here,concert venues will not reopen and i see little chance of being allowed to return to watching cricket come April.Everything i live for gone.
> The only thing that has to be answered is how soon i end up in the Psychiatric ward.I am heading there at a rate of knots.
> We cannot be expected to live like this.


Sounds like New Jersey.


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## Lewkat

Aunt Marg said:


> No, I can't imagine lawsuits, and in fact, any lawsuits filed by people not abiding by stringent criteria and guidelines set out by governing parties related to Covid-19, those lawsuits should be reversed, and a lawsuit brought down on those who aren't living up to the health and safety measures implemented.
> 
> That would quickly quash all of this foolish lawsuit talk.
> 
> It's simple, we are experiencing a pandemic world-wide at this time, do as you're told.


The problem with that, Aunt Marg is guide lines and executive orders are only pieces of paper in a court of law since they are not law.  Thus, law suits have a great chance of winning.  At least in the U.S.  One must legislate in order to force the issue.


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## AnnieA

We're heading back up in Mississippi.   We did not see a spike when school and football started, did not see a spike when restaurants went to 75% capacity but ARE spiking since the statewide mask mandate was lifted a couple of weeks ago.


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## Aunt Bea

IMO it makes no sense to lash out at the government.

Any of us that are fortunate enough not to need to go out to work or school should be content to stay home out of harm's way.

In this area, there is a lot of hand-wringing over what the government thinks we should do about Halloween or if we can safely attend fitness centers, movie theaters, etc...  What has happened to us that we pretend to live in a free society and yet we are incapable of making logical decisions for our own personal safety and the safety of our families?

Be smart, stay home, stay safe, save lives.


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## Aneeda72

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO it makes no sense to lash out at the government.
> 
> Any of us that are fortunate enough not to need to go out to work or school should be content to stay home out of harm's way.
> 
> In this area, there is a lot of hand-wringing over what the government thinks we should do about Halloween or if we can safely attend fitness centers, movie theaters, etc...  What has happened to us that we pretend to live in a free society and yet we are incapable of making logical decisions for our own personal safety and the safety of our families?
> 
> Be smart, stay home, stay safe, save lives.


Wait, just wait.  No Halloween?

No mobs of kids begging for candy, knocking on my door after I’ve gone to bed, running over my plants, driving the neighborhood dogs insane, and narrowly missed by cars?  This year-none of that?

And people claim there is no god, yet we are delivered from Halloween.  Hallelujah.


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## Chet

The cure should not be worse than the disease. The media plays up the number of cases but the actual number of deaths is a small percentage. Of course some governments want to lower the number of deaths or they will lose taxpayers.


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## hollydolly

Aneeda72 said:


> Wait, just wait.  No Halloween?
> 
> No mobs of kids begging for candy, knocking on my door after I’ve gone to bed, running over my plants, driving the neighborhood dogs insane, and narrowly missed by cars?  This year-none of that?
> 
> And people claim there is no god, yet we are delivered from Halloween.  Hallelujah.


we'll be having all of that because we're not in lockdown......we haven't been in Lockdown since around June or July


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## Aunt Marg

Lewkat said:


> The problem with that, Aunt Marg is guide lines and executive orders are only pieces of paper in a court of law since they are not law.  Thus, law suits have a great chance of winning.  At least in the U.S.  One must legislate in order to force the issue.


What a shame that is, Lew, especially at a time like this.


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## Ellen Marie

I look at the USA, and I just shake my head.   No one listens to anyone.   All that exists is criticism.  Well, criticism isn't effective against coronavirus.    A couple weeks ago on a local forum, a younger person in the area posted that he was afraid the schools were going to close and go remote.  He said that he didn't see why kids had to lose out on the best times of their lives to give up for old folks in the worst of their time. 

You see, the problem is criticism.... it divides at a time when we need to unite to fight a basically unknown virus.  

But, the government cannot MAKE anyone align with the recommendations.   We have rights in the US, and THAT is what is killing us.  It isn't the virus that is deadly right now, it is our RIGHTS


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## Pepper

Are you suggesting we shouldn't have rights? @Ellen Marie.  I really don't understand what it is that you are trying to say.


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## hollydolly

@Furryanimal ..can you take a rental in England for now, until you can sell your place ?... your situation is enough to cause severe emotional challenges. If you can get out before your lockdown.. at least you'll be able to breathe easily.


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## Furryanimal

hollydolly said:


> @Furryanimal ..can you take a rental in England for now, until you can sell your place ?... your situation is enough to cause severe emotional challenges. If you can get out before your lockdown.. at least you'll be able to breathe easily.


Can't afford it.I can't sell the house because I don't own it until probate completes.And that process has been going on for nearly a year now,Stalled by a legal issue I don't understand.And lockdown means estate agents are closed and house sales are banned.I had hoped to have sold a garage by now which was going to fund my big trip which isn't going to happen either.I know I own that but until probate completes I have nothing to prove it!Oh hum...


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## Aneeda72

hollydolly said:


> @Furryanimal ..can you take a rental in England for now, until you can sell your place ?... your situation is enough to cause severe emotional challenges. If you can get out before your lockdown.. at least you'll be able to breathe easily.


And when England goes into lockdown, does furry animal move again?  Time for us all to buckle down.  It is what it is, adjust.


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## Aneeda72

Ellen Marie said:


> I look at the USA, and I just shake my head.   No one listens to anyone.   All that exists is criticism.  Well, criticism isn't effective against coronavirus.    A couple weeks ago on a local forum, a younger person in the area posted that he was afraid the schools were going to close and go remote.  He said that he didn't see why kids had to lose out on the best times of their lives to give up for old folks in the worst of their time.
> 
> You see, the problem is criticism.... it divides at a time when we need to unite to fight a basically unknown virus.
> 
> But, the government cannot MAKE anyone align with the recommendations.   We have rights in the US, and THAT is what is killing us.  It isn't the virus that is deadly right now, it is our RIGHTS


I don’t understand what you mean either.  A CHILD doesn’t want to do many things children don’t get to choose what is best for them, adults do.  Children can, and do, voice a lot of criticisms, we allow this and listen, and then they do what they are told.


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## Furryanimal

Aneeda72 said:


> And when England goes into lockdown, does furry animal move again?  Time for us all to buckle down and grow up.  It is what it is, adjust.


I have been looking at hotels and most are fully booked in places I fancy going.People are desperate for breaks.Adjust to what?My days go wake up.exist ,see no one,go to bed.Seven days a week.That is not living.....And I object to the phrase 'grow up'.I'm off before I say something I regret


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## Aneeda72

Furryanimal said:


> I have been looking at hotels and most are fully booked in places I fancy going.People are desperate for breaks.Adjust to what?My days go wake up.exist ,see no one,go to bed.Seven days a week.That is not living.....And I object to the phrase 'grow up'.I'm off before I say something I regret


Since you object, I will apologize and will change my post.  Perhaps, because I am in so much pain from the labrum tear and tendon tear in my hip, compounding all my other painful issues I am not as patient with anyone whining but me.  I whine a LOT.

I would imagine our over 200,000 dead would prefer to be in lockdown rather than, you know, dead, but again perhaps that’s just me, just my opinion.  Our dead don’t wake up, don’t talk to anyone, don’t see anyone, and, oh, wait, don’t exist anymore.  It weights me down, the incalculable loss my country is experiencing.

I am so very sorry you are just existing due to your country’s efforts to keep you alive.  I’ve spoken to my son, he has a spare room, he will let you stay.  Come to Utah.  Enjoy the virus.  Our hospitals are full, the virus is still increasing, deaths are up; but we are not in lockdown.  You can do more than exist here, existing ends when you die, just saying .  @Furryanimal


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## jet

know how you feel furry,but im not on my own,,im not in lockdown,but Dickford says i gotta be from friday,,the bloke aint got a clue


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## StarSong

@Furryanimal, surely this won't be forever. It'll just feel like it for a while. 
When a safe, effective vaccine becomes available the activities you mentioned will surely return.  

I understand your pain and frustration.  A few weeks of near isolation would be a bitter pill to swallow.


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## garyt1957

Chet said:


> The cure should not be worse than the disease. The media plays up the number of cases but the actual number of deaths is a small percentage. Of course some governments want to lower the number of deaths or they will lose taxpayers.



The majority of the people dying aren't paying taxes anymore, or not as much and are likely taking more out than they're paying in with SS etc. If govt.s were actively playing a role in deaths to prop up the coffers they'd want more deaths not less.


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## garyt1957

Man, we're pretty soft nowadays. We think these lockdowns are such an imposition. You have to stay home with your 200 channels and your streaming and your internet, etc, "Oh the Humanity!". Just imagine what is was like during the Spanish Flu or even standing in food lines during the Depression hoping to get some bread.
    And I get it, I hate this stuff, I want to do what I want to do like before. I'm going stir crazy like everybody else, but is is really THAT bad?


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## rgp

garyt1957 said:


> Man, we're pretty soft nowadays. We think these lockdowns are such an imposition. You have to stay home with your 200 channels and your streaming and your internet, etc, "Oh the Humanity!". Just imagine what is was like during the Spanish Flu or even standing in food lines during the Depression hoping to get some bread.
> And I get it, I hate this stuff, I want to do what I want to do like before. I'm going stir crazy like everybody else, but is is really THAT bad?




  Good points all......

 I think of course that it is age related to a large degree.

 When I was young, you couldn't keep me home, in the house. I was either gone, or in the garage working on this, or that.

 Actually, before arthritis , in travel season, again i was gone. But things change with age, for various reasons. And I believe our acceptance of those changes becomes a bit easier with age.

If I were 31 as opposed to 71 , I would likely be pulling my hair out !!

And I'd have hair to pull out as well .....


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## jerry old

StarSong said:


> Maybe we should just beat them
> 
> A home remedy during the Black Death of 1340's and the several waves of the plague- had the population searching for a cure:
> Rx was crude in that epoch, Flagellants remedy was to wander from town to exhibiting their self-mutilation wounds (whipping themselves).
> 
> It didn't work then, not sure if beating some smarty-pants students would work today- it would be a good start, don't you think?
> If I were a teacher, I'd jump on that band wagon.


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## Pepper

Cats saved Europe.


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## Aneeda72

Pepper said:


> Cats saved Europe.
> View attachment 129200


What did they save it from?  An addiction to catnip?


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## Pepper

Aneeda72 said:


> What did they save it from?  An addiction to catnip?


No, they killed the rats that were carrying the disease of the Plague.


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## Aneeda72

Pepper said:


> No, they killed the rats that were carrying the disease of the Plague.


What?  I don’t think so, brb, let me google.


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## Aneeda72

Aneeda72 said:


> What?  I don’t think so, brb, let me google.


Nope, cats, that had fleas as well, helped spread the disease.


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## jerry old

Pepper said:


> No, they killed the rats that were carrying the disease of the Plague.
> 
> 
> Tis true, tis true..Fleas were the carrier, but the cats ate the rates.  Humans in their hovels ignored rats, hygiene terrible,  fleas were a part of living.
> Cats, were around, but the population were suspicious of cats-black cats, witches and all that...
> 
> Here we sit today, afraid to offend another due to possible body odor-what's that all about?


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## Aneeda72

In fact, cats rarely kill rats.  Dogs kill rats.  Rats are really ferocious and hard to kill.  While a cat can kill a rat, it would rather run from one.  You need a dog for rats, and there are dogs especially breed to kill rats.  Rat terriers come to mind .


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## Pepper

*Persecution had depleted the supply of domestic cats dramatically, leaving human grain stores unprotected when merchants brought the Plague from Asia to Europe in the form of ship rats with infectious fleas.* Rats took over Europe, gobbling the grain and providing homes for the fleas that carried the Black Plague. *Without the protection of domestic cats, the rat population multiplied exponentially. As a result, the Black Death spread rapidly*, decimating Europe’s population. Additionally, many people suffered food poisoning due to rat droppings in their food supplies. *Overall, people paid dearly for the slaughter of cats.

Those who kept cats as pets would have had a better chance of surviving the Black Death, as the rat populations around their homes would have been kept under control. *However, despite the role that cats played in helping to prevent the Black Death, people in Europe continued to murder cats for another 300 years. Thus, Europeans were particularly vulnerable when the Plague swept through again in the 1600s.
https://www.metaphoricalplatypus.com/articles/animals/cats/cat-history/cat-history-the-black-plague/


----------



## Pepper

Your know-it-all attitude is getting tiresome.  I went to graduate school at Oxford University.  I read for Medieval History and Art.


----------



## Aneeda72

Pepper said:


> Your know-it-all attitude is getting tiresome.  I went to graduate school at Oxford University.  I read for Medieval History and Art.


Well, I did not go to a four year college.  I did not graduate from Oxford University, grats btw on that, but I did do basic training in Alabama.  And they have huge field rats in Alabama.  No cat is going to be able to kill a field rat.

I am not an expert on rats or on cats.  But what you’ve printed seems to say that cats did not save Europe from the plague.  But, I am curious, were they Chinese rats?


----------



## Pepper

I wanted to print that picture of a super cat.  I was being light-hearted.  That's all.


----------



## jerry old

Pepper said:


> Your know-it-all attitude is getting tiresome.  I went to graduate school at Oxford University.  I read for Medieval History and Art.
> 
> Are you addressing me?  You got plenty learning-let us hope so.
> How come you used Goggle?  Didn't you know this information.
> 
> I'll match my book learning against yours-a year and a half in 9th grade, two years in 10th grade. two years in 11th grade and several years
> in 12th year.  *Count the years-using your finger is okay,*-also spent several semester in night school for my GED.
> Betch'a got more years in a classroom than you do.
> 
> So tell me, where do  flagellants hang out in the U.S.A. (No Goggle).


----------



## Aneeda72

Pepper said:


> I wanted to print that picture of a super cat.  I was being light-hearted.  That's all.


, well, I got interested and curious.  But actually the rats were from Asia


----------



## Aneeda72

I believe pepper was talking to me .  Are we now in a contest on who spent the most time in school?  I lose, was not me for sure.


----------



## Pepper

@jerry old 
I was speaking to Aneeda, thank you.  I was not addressing you.  Settle down, sailor.


----------



## Aneeda72

Pepper said:


> @jerry old
> I was speaking to Aneeda, thank you.  I was not addressing you.  Settle down, sailor.


I love being right , and I confess, cause it’s good for the soul, I do have a know it all attitude and a told you so attitude.


----------



## Pepper

Aneeda72 said:


> I believe pepper was talking to me .  Are we now in a contest on who spent the most time in school?  I lose, was not me for sure.


You are right, friend.  We shouldn't be in contests.  What difference does it make anymore anyway?


----------



## jerry old

any opportunity to post silly should be seized Geeze-rats


----------



## Aneeda72

jerry old said:


> any opportunity to post silly should be seized Geeze-rats


Well, it was interesting


----------



## Treacle

Really feel for you @Furryanimal. I'm in Wilshire and we're not in full lockdown yet. My friend's daughter is in Wales and she is very distressed. I can't understand the logic , is there any logic? When everyone comes out of lockdown we will face the same situation and have to go back to lockdown. I think there are 3 things that if everybody adhered to we may have a chance to avoid these lockdowns which are throwing the economy into meltdown and, it has been noted, that delays in the diagnosis of cancers/ heart conditions and other conditions and  the necessary treatments put on hold,  and add to that the  rise in mental illness, will result in deaths that will overtake  the number of deaths from the virus, so hand wash, masks and social distancing. Perhaps I'm being naieve but we locked down in March and we appear to be back to square one. Just some thoughts.


----------



## Aneeda72

Treacle said:


> Really feel for you @Furryanimal. I'm in Wilshire and we're not in full lockdown yet. My friend's daughter is in Wales and she is very distressed. I can't understand the logic , is there any logic? When everyone comes out of lockdown we will face the same situation and have to go back to lockdown. I think there are 3 things that if everybody adhered to we may have a chance to avoid these lockdowns which are throwing the economy into meltdown and, it has been noted, that delays in the diagnosis of cancers/ heart conditions and other conditions and  the necessary treatments put on hold,  and add to that the  rise in mental illness, will result in deaths that will overtake  the number of deaths from the virus, so hand wash, masks and social distancing. Perhaps I'm being naieve but we locked down in March and we appear to be back to square one. Just some thoughts.


I can not get a hip replacement till March due to the back up when our medical people went into lockdown, with the way it is going it will be March 2022


----------



## Lethe200

Here in California we've been under fairly tight restrictions since mid-March. Schools are still OPTING to remain closed and continue with long-distance learning. Every state that opened up quickly, has also seen their infection and death rates start to rise again. 

California is bucking the trends and one of the few states where the stats are trending downwards. With 30 million people in the state, that is pretty amazing in these days of partisan politics. Nobody wants to see our progress halt and go into reverse. It's still too early to "go back to the pre-shutdown days".

Restrictions are beginning to ease up but still tight limits on gathering #s and max # of indoor dining. There are still businesses not allowed to open yet.

*And frankly, we wouldn't have it any other way. *We are not eager to go out and share a lot of virus-laden air.

My family just emailed about Thanksgiving. We all agreed we'll do the "social distance bubble" - our term - since we usually do a potluck dinner. The bigger family group that is one "bubble" will be centerpoint. The other households will make some of the dishes, then drop off food to the bigger group.

That group contains the young kids, so we visitors will stay 6' away, masked, and stay to talk for a bit - outdoors. Then we'll exchange foods so that everyone gets their usual platefuls. We'll take ours home and enjoy the holiday in a low-key way.

No Zooming; we all voted against it. We keep in regular touch via email, texts, an occasional outside visit, etc.; no need for doing a videoconference (we're only about 12 miles from household to the other households - luckily no out of state close family).

Expect Xmas will be similar, but usually Xmas is a quieter time for my family than T-day is.


----------



## Aneeda72

Lethe200 said:


> Here in California we've been under fairly tight restrictions since mid-March. Schools are still OPTING to remain closed and continue with long-distance learning. Every state that opened up quickly, has also seen their infection and death rates start to rise again.
> 
> Restrictions are beginning to ease up but still tight limits on gathering #s and max # of indoor dining.
> 
> *And frankly, we wouldn't have it any other way. *We are not eager to go out and share a lot of virus-laden air, thanks.
> 
> My family just emailed about Thanksgiving. We all agreed we'll do the "social distance bubble" - our term - since we usually do a potluck dinner. The bigger family group that is one "bubble" will be centerpoint. The other households will make some of the dishes, then drop off food to the bigger group.
> 
> That group contains the young kids, so we visitors will stay 6' away, masked, and stay to talk for a bit - outdoors. Then we'll exchange foods so that everyone gets their usual platefuls. We'll take ours home and enjoy the holiday in a low-key way.
> 
> No Zooming; we all voted against it. We keep in regular touch via email, texts, an occasional outside visit, etc.; no need for doing a videoconference (we're only about 12 miles from household to the other households - luckily no out of state close family).
> 
> Expect Xmas will be similar, but usually Xmas is a quieter time for my family than T-day is.


Sounds like a great plan.  Since my daughter and great granddaughter live in Texas I finally agree to zoom.  I hate being zoom grandpop (yup that’s what she calls me) but it better than her not knowing who I am.

As to T day, depends on the virus, it’s bad in our area.  Can not make any decision at this time.


----------



## needshave

Well that was an interesting read, sad in many respects, but interesting.

I'm going to share a story with you. I have (had) a friend that was a non believer. He did not believe Corona Virus was as bad as everyone made it out to be and thought the virus was simply a fabrication that was made up and exaggerated to sell news and feed the doctors. He absolutely refused to allow it to prohibit him from doing what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it. He refused to wear a mask even in a crowd, maintain 6' clearance to others or take any precautions to protect himself or others in any way. He was a family man that lived local to the area. 

He passed at age of 51,from the virus. Impact on his family from his death has been disastrous. Impact on his family's health and others is unknown at this point.

A sad story as well but possibly a lesson taught by example.  I take the threat of the Virus very seriously.


----------



## jerry old

Watching news from Germany, France and the Al Jazeer broadcast: There problems are as severe as ours
You think we should not mention how confused the world appears to be-I'm of two minds.
Does it feed our anxieties (?)  
I had hoped Covid-19 would be broadcast without hysterical elements-nah


----------



## bowmore

Dear Furryanimal, I am so sad you feel that way about Wales, but it understandable. We are all suffering from Covid fatigue.
I have fond memories of my time in Wales, riding the Great Little Trains of Wales, especially the Vale of Reidol.
I was staying in LLanidloes, and had a driver take me all over.
Hope things get better for you soon


----------



## grahamg

Aneeda72 said:


> , well, I got interested and curious.  But actually the rats were from Asia


Why do they call some rats, "rattus novegicas", (or Norway rats - the brown ones I think, not the black plague rats?)?    .


----------



## garyt1957

Pepper said:


> No, they killed the rats that were carrying the disease of the Plague.


I find it hard to believe cats could kill enough rats to matter.


----------



## Jules

Furryanimal, use pleasant social media as much as possible to relate to others.  It’s not the greatest, it does help.  And thank goodness for tv & Netflix.  I swore I’d never have it & now swear that I love it.


----------



## Pepper

garyt1957 said:


> I find it hard to believe cats could kill enough rats to matter.


Gosh, I already said I wanted to facetiously honor Cats!


----------



## Ellen Marie

Pepper said:


> Are you suggesting we shouldn't have rights? @Ellen Marie.  I really don't understand what it is that you are trying to say.


Sorry to take so long to get back to you...... We have a Bill of Rights.... and this is probably the first time that people are screaming that they have the right to not wear a mask.  They have the right to meet when they want and where they want.  The kids have the right to be in school, even if they are superspreaders.    That is what I mean by our rights are killing us.   Perhaps a poor choice of words, but maybe I should just say poor choices.   

I just found out today.... my sister told me her BIL has covid, is hospitalized, and his entire branch of the family is under quarantine.  Her SIL, they recently had a wedding with 50 people in attendance, mostly family.  One has covid now, 50 people quarantined.    People don't seem to understand that they can spread the disease, particularly to the older generation, 5-7 days before they begin to show symptoms, if then.   But they are still spreading it.... and don't want to wear masks and don't want to follow social distancing.


----------



## Ellen Marie

Aneeda72 said:


> I don’t understand what you mean either.  A CHILD doesn’t want to do many things children don’t get to choose what is best for them, adults do.  Children can, and do, voice a lot of criticisms, we allow this and listen, and then they do what they are told.


Well, not really.  The adult in this situation is the governor.  If your county goes "red", everyone has to go to remote learning until a week after it is not "red."  That is what the individual found upsetting.   The school districts don't really decide.  They have to follow guidelines provided by the state.


----------



## Jules

Spoke to my Welsh friend today.  She had hoped to visit her family there this year.  She described the situation exactly as OP did.  LOCKDOWN.  Way worse than anything we have in N.A.


----------



## Aneeda72

Jules said:


> Spoke to my Welsh friend today.  She had hoped to visit her family there this year.  She described the situation exactly as OP did.  LOCKDOWN.  Way worse than anything we have in N.A.


We do not lock down, we just choose to die, apparently


----------



## Lewkat

Just about every person on this forum has been or still is in a lockdown situation.  Even so, I was a victim of the virus and it was just horrendous.  But, many more would be sick if not for all the precautions.  It is frustrating but you are alive to give vent to your frustrations.  Think about it.


----------



## Sunny

Ellen Marie said:


> I look at the USA, and I just shake my head.   No one listens to anyone.   All that exists is criticism.  Well, criticism isn't effective against coronavirus.    A couple weeks ago on a local forum, a younger person in the area posted that he was afraid the schools were going to close and go remote.  He said that he didn't see why kids had to lose out on the best times of their lives to give up for old folks in the worst of their time.
> 
> You see, the problem is criticism.... it divides at a time when we need to unite to fight a basically unknown virus.
> 
> But, the government cannot MAKE anyone align with the recommendations.   We have rights in the US, and THAT is what is killing us.  It isn't the virus that is deadly right now, it is our RIGHTS



That doesn't make sense, Ellen Marie.  One person's "rights" end where the next person's foot begins. We do have the right to endanger our own health, I suppose, but not to act in a way that spreads a serious disease to others.

We live in a nation of laws, not chaos and anarchy.  And we don't have the "right" to do absolutely anything we want.


----------



## StarSong

Ellen Marie said:


> Well, not really.  The adult in this situation is the governor.  If your county goes "red", everyone has to go to remote learning until a week after it is not "red."  That is what the individual found upsetting.   T*he school districts don't really decide.  They have to follow guidelines provided by the state.*


True, but only when it comes to whether they may reopen.  Not whether they remain online only.  At least in California, public school admins make that decision.  I expect that even after Los Angeles Unified School District is permitted to reopen, most of their schools will remain remote and all of their students will have a remote option available until at least the end of the 2020-21 school year.


----------



## Becky1951

The lockdown is until November the 9th. Not forever. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54598136


----------



## Capt Lightning

Becky - lockdown's have to be reviewed regularly,  and there's nothing to say they won't be extended.

Here in Scotland,  we're waiting to hear what "Wee Jimmy" our beloved ???  First minister has to announce tomorrow.  I live in a region that has a low infection rate, and my immediate area has had few, or no cases of Covid.  Yet, we are under many of the same restrictions as  the whole country.    At least during lockdown here, it made little difference to most day-to-day activities.


----------



## Becky1951

Capt Lightning said:


> Becky - lockdown's have to be reviewed regularly,  and there's nothing to say they won't be extended.
> 
> Here in Scotland,  we're waiting to hear what "Wee Jimmy" our beloved ???  First minister has to announce tomorrow.  I live in a region that has a low infection rate, and my immediate area has had few, or no cases of Covid.  Yet, we are under many of the same restrictions as  the whole country.    At least during lockdown here, it made little difference to most day-to-day activities.



True and we all have experienced them. But its not the end of the world, but death is for many.


----------



## grahamg

Becky1951 said:


> True and we all have experienced them. But its not the end of the world, but death is for many.


I hope you don't mind my saying "yes and no".

Covid 19 will clearly not bring about the "end of the world" to use your metaphor, as other threats to our world might do, (it could only end human civilisation if it were 100% lethal obvious!y), but if more die as a result of lockdowns, increasing poverty due to impending depression, undiagnosed cancers or heart conditions due to fear seeking help, or cancelled treatments, and so on, then we'll have condemned them to their worlds ending to save us.


----------



## Becky1951

grahamg said:


> I hope you don't mind my saying "yes and no".
> 
> Covid 19 will clearly not bring about the "end of the world" to use your metaphor, as other threats to our world might do, (it could only end human civilisation if it were 100% lethal obvious!y), but if more die as a result of lockdowns, increasing poverty due to impending depression, undiagnosed cancers or heart conditions due to fear seeking help, or cancelled treatments, and so on, then we'll have condemned them to their worlds ending to save us.



I don't mind at all. What you state is true. My reaction are to posts complaining about the lockdowns are the ones complaining about missing out on their "fun" times, their vacations, their not eating in their favorite restaurants, their not visiting with friends at their local spot or meeting places, their lack of having anything to do etc, having to stay at home, or wear a mask. 

I'm just not understanding how some can be so upset over things like that when it means curbing this virus for the good of all.  Yes it sucks, I haven't left home since the beginning of February. Is it fair? No it isn't. Am I happy about that? No I am not. Am I whining and complaining? No I am not.


----------



## hollydolly

Good Lord... @Furryanimal.. who _is_ this first minister of yours?.. he looks demented... and how does he get to have such powers..

I can't believe  that they're bringing the police in to stop people shopping for more than they need..  or to buy clothing... this is beyond his remit surely...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...essential-goods-countrys-17-day-lockdown.html


----------



## Capt Lightning

Becky1951 said:


> I don't mind at all. What you state is true. My reaction are to posts complaining about the lockdowns are the ones complaining about missing out on their "fun" times, their vacations, their not eating in their favorite restaurants, their not visiting with friends at their local spot or meeting places, their lack of having anything to do etc, having to stay at home, or wear a mask.



Why shouldn't we complain?  We have worked hard and looked forward to holidays, theatre, travel etc..  Yes, we must unfortunately accept that these things aren't always possible now, but these are important to us.  Of course we are going to moan. It does NOT mean that we are going to ignore the rules, but we don't have to be overjoyed with them.


----------



## grahamg

Becky1951 said:


> I don't mind at all. What you state is true. My reaction are to posts complaining about the lockdowns are the ones complaining about missing out on their "fun" times, their vacations, their not eating in their favorite restaurants, their not visiting with friends at their local spot or meeting places, their lack of having anything to do etc, having to stay at home, or wear a mask.
> I'm just not understanding how some can be so upset over things like that when it means curbing this virus for the good of all.  Yes it sucks, I haven't left home since the beginning of February. Is it fair? No it isn't. Am I happy about that? No I am not. Am I whining and complaining? No I am not.



You've made a very fair point there, but the old questions about how long does anyone expect the rest of the population to put up with restrictions does come to mind, and recently another forum member suggested they might tolerate ten years if it came to it.

Perhaps this joke from another thread is worth repeating here too:
*"Mom always told me I wouldn’t accomplish anything by lying in bed all day. But look at me now, ma! I’m saving the world!"*


----------



## FastTrax

Seriously for the Love of GOD furryanimal I implore you to just stay put, you're already sheltered in place and quarantined at home. Any relocation efforts at a time like this will more then likely be psychologically destabilizing and more so expose you to an increased chance of catching COVD-19. I am more isolated then you could ever be and I absolutely enjoy my government impost freedom. 90% of the people in my neighborhood have stopped following the PPE policy and maybe 25% of them just wear a mask. When I have to take care of anything outside of my home I seriously suit up with a surgical mask, gloves, footies, a headpiece and body suit, all disposable and I don't give two good craps when everybody looks at me like I'm from a parallel dimension and I'm still here. Now I know this may sound like overkill but instead of cleaning my home once a week I have increased my home cleaning to once a day every day. Hard and tasking but I feel the effort is well worth it in the end. Yes there are times when my resolve tends to weaken but that's when I pray to our Lord GOD to give me the inner strength to persevere and all is good again. Try it, it is easier then one could ever imagine when they possess the will to survive in these trying times. May GOD bless you and keep you safe.











www.wales.com/

www.gov.wales/coronavirus

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54598136

www.itv.com/news/wales/2020-03-24/welsh-doctor-designs-ventilator-that-could-save-the-lives-of-thousands-of-coronavirus-patients

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_Wales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Wales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_Wales


----------



## grahamg

garyt1957 said:


> I find it hard to believe cats could kill enough rats to matter.


My own grandfather was known as a "rat catcher" as a young man, (as a derogatory remark perhaps, though as a farm boy he did catch rats as they all probably had to do back then).

In my experience I've only seen cats being able to tackle young rats, but there may be some able to kill adult ones too, (even taking the younger ones could have a big impact though).


----------



## hollydolly

Aneeda72 said:


> And when England goes into lockdown, does furry animal move again?  Time for us all to buckle down.  It is what it is, adjust.


England doesn't go into the all consuming strangulated lockdown that Wales has gone through 2 or 3 times now..... ...


----------



## hollydolly

StarSong said:


> @Furryanimal, surely this won't be forever. It'll just feel like it for a while.
> When a safe, effective vaccine becomes available the activities you mentioned will surely return.
> 
> I understand your pain and frustration.  A few weeks of near isolation would be a bitter pill to swallow.


on top of months already... I feel for @Furryanimal ..


----------



## Aneeda72

hollydolly said:


> on top of months already... I feel for @Furryanimal ..


It’s not that I don’t feel for furryanimal, I do.  But my feelings are very mixed and very restrained.  I am, as usual, being honest and open.  @hollydolly 

I feel more for the 223,000 plus Americans who would rather be in lockdown than dead.  Who would rather exist in lockdown, than not exist.  I feel more for their families, their orphaned children.  I feel more for the circumstances in MY country, than I do for the circumstances in any other country.  As I should.

I don’t mean to be offensive to anyone.  The forum is global which is great.  People from all around the world feel free to comment on things happening in America which is great.  But we have over 8,411,000 cases of the virus.  We had over 71,000 new cases of the virus yesterday.  Thousands of people die here every week.

In comparison, to a lockdown, well, there is no comparison that I can see.  But perhaps, if hollydolly and furryanimal or anyone else can explain the comparison to me, well, I am willing to listen.  Because the economy can recover from a lockdown, individuals can recover from “just existing”.  There is no recovery from death.


----------



## Sunny

Aneeda72 said:


> This will never happen!  Imagine the lawsuits.



Sorry, I'm coming into this discussion late in the game. I wonder about the "lawsuit" question.  If there is a strict rule that masks must be worn at all times while in school, and the kids without masks risk being sent home and not promoted, and then they do it anyway, what legal grounds would the parents have to sue?

However, what about lunch hour?  Obviously, they'd have to remove the masks to eat lunch. So, then what?


----------



## hollydolly

@Aneeda...I don't disagree with you. In fact I agree wholeheartedly, and it's my Mantra... . and has been all this year.. we've gone through months of lockdown here , and due mainly to the younger element who thought they were untouchable where this virus was concerned and continued to party... here, to demonstrate in their thousands and various rallies  ,  to refuse to wear Masks , parts of this country are now back up to the levels of march.. ( not here in the south east and East of England thank goodness)...  700 hundred students were diagnosed  in one Northern University alone just days after returning to University...  however regardless as to whose fault it is.. some places and some people are having their mental health affected by this who are being locked up needlessly .. people who live alone like Furryanimal.. who have been in not necessarily the worst affected area of the UK, but being dictated to by a Leader who has been given the first bit of real power ..and is using it to it's full affect.. without regard for the fact that mental health is being affected quite seriously in people who are alone, without friends , or family..now for almost 9 months ....telling those people that 223,000 people have died in the USA ( god rest their souls)..is not going to improve their mental well-being..

I'm not arguing about it..I'm just saying that some people are affected very badly in other ways by this virus, and that has to be respected too


----------



## hollydolly

Sunny said:


> Sorry, I'm coming into this discussion late in the game. I wonder about the "lawsuit" question.  If there is a strict rule that masks must be worn at all times while in school, and the kids without masks risk being sent home and not promoted, and then they do it anyway, what legal grounds would the parents have to sue?
> 
> However, what about lunch hour?  Obviously, they'd have to remove the masks to eat lunch. So, then what?


In the uk, the law states you are allowed to remove masks for eating or drinking..  in restaurants and bars so I suspect that rule will be the same in Universities and schools

In the UK..children are not required to wear masks under the age of 11


----------



## StarSong

Sunny, public schools cannot create punishments that don't fit the crime, then hide behind, "they knew the consequences" in a court of law.

If 12 year old children remove their masks, essentially failing them for the year would be extraordinarily punitive. Indeed, even children who bring weapons to school don't lose a year of education as a consequence.

A far more appropriate consequence would be putting them in online classes.

If my kids took off their masks in school and I was told that they'd be held back because of it, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd call the local news stations, the newspaper and a lawyer.  _Tout de suite. _


----------



## Aneeda72

hollydolly said:


> @Aneeda...I don't disagree with you. In fact I agree wholeheartedly, and it's my Mantra... . and has been all this year.. we've gone through months of lockdown here , and due mainly to the younger elemnt who thought they were untouchable where this virus was concerned and continued to party... here, to demonstrate in their thousands and various rallies  ,  to refuse to wear Masks , parts of this country are now back up to the levels of march.. ( not here thank goodness)...  700 hundred students were diagnosed  in one Northern University alone just days after returning to University...  however regardless as to whose fault it is.. some places and some people are having their mental health affected by this who are being locked up needlessly .. people who live alone like Furryanimal.. who have been in not necessarily the worst affected area of the UK, but being dictated to by a Leader who has been given the first bit of real power ..and is using it to it's full affect.. without regard for the fact that mental health is being affected quite seriously in people who are alone, without friends , or family..now for almost 9 months ....telling those people that 223,000 people have died in the USA ( god rest their souls)..is not going to improve their mental well-being..
> 
> I'm not arguing about it..I'm just saying that some people are affected very badly in other ways by this virus, and that has to be respected too


I am not going to criticize a leader or comment about a leader of another country as I have no direct knowledge of those issues.

We live in the real world.  Fuzzyanimal is in a protected environment.  We should all be so fortunate.  What I have said, about the deaths, is widely known.  People can no longer live in a bubble or afford to be self absorbed.


----------



## StarSong

Oh my gosh, Aneeda, I'd be out of my mind with worry.  How old is your granddaughter?


----------



## Aneeda72

StarSong said:


> Oh my gosh, Aneeda, I'd be out of my mind with worry.  How old is your granddaughter?


I should not have shared, let me edit the post.  I will PM you.


----------



## hollydolly

How ridiculous does it get... supermarkets in Wales have blocked the purchasing of duvets, and kettles, and microwave ovens, and clothing..in the same supermarket where you  can buy a can of beans... and a carton of milk... Madness!!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rakeford-snaps-criticism-firebreak-rules.html


----------



## Aneeda72

hollydolly said:


> How ridiculous does it get... supermarkets in Wales have blocked the purchasing of duvets, and kettles, and microwave ovens, and clothing..in the same supermarket where you  can buy a can of beans... and a carton of milk... Madness!!
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rakeford-snaps-criticism-firebreak-rules.html


They did that here, you could buy groceries at the Walmart superstore, but nothing else.  It is done to get people in and out of the stores quicker.  We had a “mini” lockdown at one time and we may go back to that, idk.


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## Becky1951

hollydolly said:


> How ridiculous does it get... supermarkets in Wales have blocked the purchasing of duvets, and kettles, and microwave ovens, and clothing..in the same supermarket where you  can buy a can of beans... and a carton of milk... Madness!!
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rakeford-snaps-criticism-firebreak-rules.html
> 
> WOW! I read the article, that's extreme. Blankets are essential as cold weather is approaching yet they can't purchase any. No electric items or electronics, not even phone chargers.


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## hollydolly

@Becky1951 , unnecessarily extreme I agree..


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## Capt Lightning

Scotland is introducing a 5 tier level of restrictions from 0 - very few restrictions  to 4 - can't do anything.   These are being applied to local authority areas, not to the larger health districts.  This means that if used properly, restrictions will be tailored to the area.   This area has a pretty low rate of infection - 22 per 100k over 7 days and the neighbouring area has had 16 per 100k.

The chief ? medical officer has been saying that we won't have a normal Christmas and we should have a 'digital' one.
You can imagine that the newspapers have had a field day at his expense.


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## hollydolly

A furious man has been filmed removing coverings on non-essential items in a Welsh supermarket.

Gwilym Owen, who was not wearing a mask, is seen removing covers in a shop which are no longer allowed to sell under the new Welsh lockdown restrictions.

The man is heard to shout 'since when has clothes been exempt?


'Last night I heard supermarkets have put covers over ''non essential'' things such as clothes.

'We're heading into winter now and who would have thought clothes for children weren't essential?

'I'm sure there are people out there who can barely afford heating in their houses and now they want to stop people buying clothes in supermarkets.

'I don't expect everyone to do what I've done here but I do expect everyone to know that denying the public clothing is nothing but immoral and inhuman.

'So no I'm not ashamed of what I've done. The government is corrupt, but what's more damaging to society is the fact that people are not standing up against this machine.

'I ask everyone can we all wake up and have a backbone and not let this tyranny run for any longer?

'Things will only get worse If we do not make any effort in stopping this madness. I'm not prepared to live in a society where they can take basic human needs away like being able to buy new clothes, especially for children.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ells-rip-f-ers-tears-plastic-items-Wales.html


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## Sunny

Furryanimal said:


> I am Welsh...but i wish i wasn’t!
> It has just been announced that from Friday evening until November 9th Wales will be in a complete lockdown.We have all been told to stay at home and are only allowed out to shop and access medical services.Most businesses will be closed again.Not that some have ever reopened.I don’t think anyone believes this will just be for two weeks.
> Not only that,our bully of a leader has made it clear that he will not allow life to return to normal until there is a vaccine.There is little chance of that and you won’t get me having one until i’m sure it is safe.
> So there we have it.If you live in Wales you are condemned to just exist forevermore.
> I don’t want to live here anymore.Time to sell up and move to England.But who the hell would be mad enough to buy a house here?
> I need to live....but it is clear Community rugby will never return here,concert venues will not reopen and i see little chance of being allowed to return to watching cricket come April.Everything i live for gone.
> The only thing that has to be answered is how soon i end up in the Psychiatric ward.I am heading there at a rate of knots.
> We cannot be expected to live like this.



I have to wonder about that "only allowed out to shop" part of it. We've had that restriction in some of our lockdown communities also.  How would this ever be implemented?  If people are not allowed out of the house, EXCEPT if they are shopping, would they be arrested and questioned as to where they are going, and for what purpose?  Wouldn't everybody just say they are shopping or going to the doctor, even if they aren't?

I can see this making sense if it is a suggestion, not a law.  Governments can ask people, in the name of good sense and common decency, to only leave the house for medical services or shopping. Ask, not "enforce."

And if the people in Wales are just being asked, is that really such a horrendous outrage? Having a temporary stoppage of rugby games and concerts is dismal, but as Aneeda points out, death is a lot worse.  And this will pass.  It isn't forever.


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## RadishRose

It's only for 17 days! 
Get your food and get out.
Browsing other merchandise keeps people inside together longer; not good.


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## StarSong

RadishRose said:


> It's only for 17 days!
> Get your food and get out.
> Browsing other merchandise keeps people inside together longer; not good.


That's what I was thinking.  People also had several days warning before the closures so if they needed warmer clothing, blankets, appliances or other items they had time to do so.  

Internet ordering can cover emergency needs.


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## hollydolly

StarSong said:


> That's what I was thinking.  People also had several days warning before the closures so if they needed warmer clothing, blankets, appliances or other items they had time to do so.
> 
> *Internet ordering can cover emergency needs.*


That's exactly what will be the final nail in the coffin for Wales.. shops other than supermarkets which barely survived the previous months of lockdown, will not survive further lockdowns


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## hollydolly

Sunny said:


> I have to wonder about that "only allowed out to shop" part of it. We've had that restriction in some of our lockdown communities also.  How would this ever be implemented?  If people are not allowed out of the house, EXCEPT if they are shopping, would they be arrested and questioned as to where they are going, and for what purpose?  Wouldn't everybody just say they are shopping or going to the doctor, even if they aren't?
> 
> *I can see this making sense if it is a suggestion, not a law.  Governments can ask people, in the name of good sense and common decency, to only leave the house for medical services or shopping. Ask, not "enforce."*


I know we're discussing Wales here... but just as an aside.. Governments certainly can and do and have enforced the rules of where you're permitted to go. I know first hand in Spain for example during the lockdown, to go anywhere further than your immediate  local area, you have to have written permission..  proof of a doctors appointment etc.. and  drivers are stopped very regularly for proof, without which you will be  fined heavily


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## Aneeda72

hollydolly said:


> That's exactly what will be the final nail in the coffin for Wales.. shops other than supermarkets which barely survived the previous months of lockdown, will not survive further lockdowns


We have had lots of store closings as well.  Bed bath and beyond, a major countrywide store, has closed two stores in our areas.  Some smaller stores have closed, and restaurants as well.  But, this happens every year as tax time approaches.  Hard to tell what the real reasons behind the closures are.


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## StarSong

hollydolly said:


> I know we're discussing Wales here... but just as an aside.. Governments certainly can and do and have enforced the rules of where you're permitted to go. I know first hand in Spain for example during the lockdown, to go anywhere further than your immediate  local area, you have to have written permission..  proof of a doctors appointment etc.. and  drivers are stopped very regularly for proof, without which you will be  fined heavily


They did the same thing in Italy.  Wuhan was even more extreme.


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## hollydolly

Aneeda72 said:


> We have had lots of store closings as well.  Bed bath and beyond, a major countrywide store, has closed two stores in our areas.  Some smaller stores have closed, and restaurants as well.  But, this happens every year as tax time approaches.  Hard to tell what the real reasons behind the closures are.


we have lost Major stores which have been part of of British life for decades.. all this year.. Department stores to hundred of smaller stores... and hundreds of pubs  all directly caused from the lockdown due to Covid-19..that is fact.!

This country will never be the same...  this is the whole UK I'm talking about now, including Wales..


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## StarSong

hollydolly said:


> we have lost Major stores which have been part of of British life for decades.. all this years.. Department stores to hundred of smaller stores... and hundreds of pubs  all directly caused from thelockdown due to Covid-19..that is fact.!
> 
> This country will never be the same...  this is the whole UK I'm talking about now, including Wales..


Same here.  Probably true in most of the world.


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## hollydolly

StarSong said:


> They did the same thing in Italy.  Wuhan was even more extreme.


my daughter is self employed  and needs to travel from her home all around Andalucia   as part of her job on a daily basis .She had to spend hours in a week to get printed permissions to be in various parts of  her area.. and if the police were to find her in a different area to her permission.. say veered off to the supermarket  in a different town on the way home..she would have faced stiff penalties.
Anyone who didn't work outside the home was not permitted to leave their home for exercise until after 6pm and then only permitted to walk one kilometre

Very very stressful, people lived in fear of the police..


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## Aneeda72

hollydolly said:


> we have lost Major stores which have been part of of British life for decades.. all this year.. Department stores to hundred of smaller stores... and hundreds of pubs  all directly caused from the lockdown due to Covid-19..that is fact.!
> 
> This country will never be the same...  this is the whole UK I'm talking about now, including Wales..


I believe you.  I am sure different parts of our country, like New York City, experience the same.  But not as much here, where I am.


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## StarSong

hollydolly said:


> my daughter is self employed  and needs to travel from her home all around Andalucia   as part of her job on a daily basis .She had to spend hours in a week to get printed permissions to be in various parts of  her area.. and if the police were to find her in a different area to her permission.. say veered off to the supermarket  in a different town on the way home..she would have faced stiff penalties.
> Anyone who didn't work outside the home was not permitted to leave their home for exercise until after 6pm and then only permitted to walk one kilometre


That must have been very difficult for her and the people in that area.  

Most US areas temporarily closed schools and non-essential businesses,  plus required mask/distancing rules, but that's about it.

Hardware stores (including those that sold large appliances), auto repair shops, grocery stores, drug stores & pharmacies, banks, restaurant take-out food, and others that I can't bring to mind remained open, even during the strictest of our safer-at-home periods.  

So I guess I shouldn't judge too harshly about Wales because it appears their closure is far more stringent than anything I've experienced.


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## Aneeda72

hollydolly said:


> my daughter is self employed  and needs to travel from her home all around Andalucia   as part of her job on a daily basis .She had to spend hours in a week to get printed permissions to be in various parts of  her area.. and if the police were to find her in a different area to her permission.. say veered off to the supermarket  in a different town on the way home..she would have faced stiff penalties.
> Anyone who didn't work outside the home was not permitted to leave their home for exercise until after 6pm and then only permitted to walk one kilometre
> 
> Very very stressful, people lived in fear of the police..


In fear of the police or the fines?  Or both?  Why were they afraid of the police?


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## hollydolly

Aneeda72 said:


> In fear of the police or the fines?  Or both?  Why were they afraid of the police?


The police in Spain are  armed mostly.. and are not to be messed with_ believe_ me... I'd like to explain much more but it would take us into political discussion...


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## RadishRose

It's all so heartbreaking on every level.


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## Pinky

hollydolly said:


> The police in Spain are  armed mostly.. and are not to be messed with_ believe_ me... I'd like to explain much more but it would take us into political discussion...


@hollydolly  They have always been extreme .. and by the sound of it, still are. Hubs has some stories of his travels through Spain in his younger days.


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## StarSong

Pinky said:


> @hollydolly  They have always been extreme .. and by the sound of it, still are. Hubs has some stories of his travels through Spain in his younger days.


I didn't know that about Spain, but have to say my first time in a Mexican port was eye-opening.  Very young men (they looked like teenagers) armed to the hilt.  Machine guns and more.  It was shocking.  Still the same the last time I was on a cruise ship that docked in Mexico some 5-6 years ago.  

Heavily armed police can be extremely intimidating, even for those of us who live on the right side of the law.


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## RadishRose

In the days and weeks that followed the 911 attacks, the National Guard building directly across the street from my office had guardsmen patrolling our shared parking lot all day.

Our lunchtime picnic tables were right there. Guardsmen holding rifles walked up and down, and all over he place. Not all of them pointed their weapons downward. I found myself staring directly into the barrel of one.

Yes, scary as heck. I stayed in after that.


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## Sunny

> The police in Spain are  armed mostly.. and are not to be messed with_ believe_ me...



Is that the reason the rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain?  Is it to get away from the police?


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## Sunny

hollydolly said:


> I know we're discussing Wales here... but just as an aside.. Governments certainly can and do and have enforced the rules of where you're permitted to go. I know first hand in Spain for example during the lockdown, to go anywhere further than your immediate  local area, you have to have written permission..  proof of a doctors appointment etc.. and  drivers are stopped very regularly for proof, without which you will be  fined heavily



Yes, but you are talking about WHERE people are permitted to go, whereas I was talking about for what purpose. Furryanimal says in Wales, they are only allowed to leave their homes for shopping or to access medical services.  I have no idea how that "distance" thing is implemented, or what the penalty is for violation. But what the original note in this thread is clearly saying is that people can only leave their homes for those two reasons, period.  Going out to visit with the next door neighbor would be against the law?


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## Butterfly

Pepper said:


> No @Aneeda72.  The Herd, where we take our chances.  If you die or get critically ill, so be it.  I believe in order for it to work 60% of the population must be infected.  Business as usual.



That approach is nuts, IMHO!


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## Butterfly

StarSong said:


> We are talking about children.  Draconian punishments mystify me because they're so, well, punitive.  Not helpful, not edifying, not a life lesson.  Punitive.
> 
> Why would anyone punish children so drastically for being the immature creatures we know them to be?  After all, the adults in charge have presumably had years of child development education plus hands-on experience.  They KNOW children are impulsive, ego-centric and have difficulty with delayed gratification.
> 
> We teach our children not to cross the street without looking both ways, but because we know that chasing after a ball may distract them from that lesson, we have reduced speed limits in school zones and crossing guards at the intersections. We tell them that medicine isn't candy, but the law nevertheless requires child-proof caps. We tell them to say away from the pool but fence around it just in case. We tell them to stay away from alcohol but the long arm of the law much more heavily punishes the clerk and store who sells it to minors.
> 
> Why? Because adults know better.
> 
> Bottom line, if schools cannot be safely opened, then they should remain closed. If reopenings fail, those failures belong to the administrators, not the students.



Bravo!  Well said, Starry.


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