# Enter the Dividend Investor



## ManjaroKDE (Jun 19, 2022)

The markets have been brutal recently.  Being a dividend investor has it's quirks, patience is a virtue of which I had a sharp learning curve to overcome.  I've been buying recently so I wanted to see what the damages were.  The DOW is down over 12% since my current record keeping started.  My portfolio (which has a 7.7% yield) is down 4.4%.  Just updated all my positions to reinvest the dividends for those currently active.  My pension provider manages all my accounts, management fees are free.

Remembering that 12 months is the important number for taxes and 'Capital Gain' reporting, I only hope things right themselves during the next 10 months.  The saying goes '*Buy, when there's blood in the streets even if it's yours*'.   Someone from the Rothchild family is credited with uttering such drivel, so who am I to complain.  I had some savings that were languishing in the 1-1.5% range and it felt like watching someone with a nervous tic.  Cost more to keep track of and send me a statement.


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 19, 2022)

I remember when the Dow closed above 1,000.

Patience is indeed a virtue.  







Good luck!


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## Murrmurr (Jun 19, 2022)

I only invest in my own companies, real or imagined. The only actual gain is that my money is safe from market dips and taxes.


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## ManjaroKDE (Jun 19, 2022)

Safe thoughts or so you would think, a few months ago my wife got a charge for inactivity.  She was charged the fee since she had made no deposits within the year.  It about wiped out her interest for 2021.  It's called creative accounting.  Now since she doesn't want more charges she has to make at least a $25 deposit every so often to avoid it.


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## ManjaroKDE (Jun 19, 2022)

Speaking about 'DRIPS', many years ago I gave those a try, made a little money,  Not so you'd notice, I still have one share that pays me less than $2 annually.  It's a foreign health stock (GSK) I've made all my investment back but sure was humbling depositing those $.52 checks quarterly.  Still have it but would cost too much too sell it through a broker.  I did direct them to deposit my dividend into my pension/brokerage account.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 19, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> Speaking about 'DRIPS', many years ago I gave those a try, made a little money,  Not so you'd notice, I still have one share that pays me less than $2 annually.  It's a foreign health stock (GSK) I've made all my investment back but sure was humbling depositing those $.52 checks quarterly.  Still have it but would cost too much too sell it through a broker.  I did direct them to deposit my dividend into my pension/brokerage account.


_"sure was humbling depositing those $.52 checks quarterly."_  OMG! My sister and I did dental studies for GSK (in the U.S.) for several years. I know that it's a large, global company so I can't understand why your dividend check would only be 52 cents unless you only have one share or were joking about the amount. Here's their dividend history for the last year (per share) according to Yahoo Finance.

DateDividendsMay 19, 2022*0.35* DividendFeb 24, 2022*0.622* DividendNov 18, 2021*0.523* DividendAug 19, 2021*0.53* Dividend

_"Still have it but would cost too much too sell it through a broker."_ I'm a self directed investor who after trial, error and going through several brokerages, found the one that works best for me....Schwab. I also use TD Ameritrade but didn't transfer shares because they charge a ridiculous $75 fee (no other brokerage has ever charged a fee to transfer) and they are in the process of merging with Schwab. I can trade anytime I want, no fee when I make the trades online. So are you obligated to use a broker due to the pension arrangement?

I agree with the "buy when there's blood in the streets tactic" (though I never heard it put that way). That means you are getting a bargain. I did that a couple of years ago and even considering the current crash, one is up by $7.50 a share and the other by $1.70 a share. Before the market started to slide they were up by $33.65/share and $4.53/share, respectively. I have no doubt they will reach those levels again, though it will take time.


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## ManjaroKDE (Jun 19, 2022)

Yea it's an ongoing personal joke, *I OWN ONE SHARE OF GSK QUOTED PRICE IS OR WAS $41* a share I paid less than $35 for the share. I had probably 20 stocks @ the time 1 to 3 shares each. I've owned GSK for at least 15 or 20 years, I get proxy requests all the time from them. The dividend was somewhere close to $2 divided into 4 quarters a year hence $2 divided by 4 = $.50 to maybe $.60 every three months. I think by now I've more on GSK than the others.

Once after letting them sit for a year or so they sent me a check for $5.   As I stated I made a little not much.  For each check I  had to get my wife to endorse it since both our names are on it.  I keep it as a reminder of some of the stupid things I've done after 50+ years of marriage.  I was able to sell the other stocks but that being a foreign company they wanted me jump through hoops, then pay as much as $15 to get the rest.  Not worth my time so I'll just keep it as a conversation piece, and tell people I'm part owner in a foreign drug company.

Yes to the pension question.  They deposit my monthly check there, I have a 2% any time, high limit reward card along with a debit card .  They reimburse me if I encounter ATM fees, free checks for life.  They've finally stopped sending me large low interest loan offers, they just end up in the trash anyway.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 19, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> Yea it's an ongoing personal joke, *I OWN ONE SHARE OF GSK QUOTED PRICE IS OR WAS $41* a share I paid less than $35 for the share. I had probably 20 stocks @ the time 1 to 3 shares each. I've owned GSK for at least 15 or 20 years, I get proxy requests all the time from them. The dividend was somewhere close to $2 divided into 4 quarters a year hence $2 divided by 4 = $.50 to maybe $.60 every three months. I think by now I've more on GSK than the others.
> 
> Once after letting them sit for a year or so they sent me a check for $5.   As I stated I made a little not much.  For each check I  had to get my wife to endorse it since both our names are on it.  I keep it as a reminder of some of the stupid things I've done after 50+ years of marriage.  I was able to sell the other stocks but that being a foreign company they wanted me jump through hoops, then pay as much as $15 to get the rest.  Not worth my time so I'll just keep it as a conversation piece, and tell people I'm part owner in a foreign drug company.
> 
> Yes to the pension question.  They deposit my monthly check there, I have a 2% any time, high limit reward card along with a debit card .  They reimburse me if I encounter ATM fees, free checks for life.  They've finally stopped sending me large low interest loan offers, they just end up in the trash anyway


"I had probably 20 stocks @ the time 1 to 3 shares each." Wow! You must be more skittish than me about individual stocks. The only ones I ever bought were Facebook, Apple, Fitbit and more recently Canon, which is based in Japan. Facebook, though it paid no dividends was the best performer for awhile and was up by 534% until last year. I only bought 14 shares of that at the IPO and wound up selling a couple of months ago as share price started dropping, still with a gain of $179 gain per share.  I bought 15 shares of Apple but they did a 4 for 1 split in 2020. I bought a few more shares along and along after the split and now I have 90+. (current gain is 132.67%)  Fitbit was a dog and was the only one I bought due to "experts'" recommendations. I'll never do *that* again! I lost money on the 45 shares I bought. Strange thing is that Fitbit was all the rage back then and should have been doing well. Luckily I sold before it bottomed out. Canon is doing well... not mimicking the crash at all. I broke my own rule and bought 160 shares of that. I haven't owned Canon a year yet and the gain is 7.85% as of Friday.
@Pecos


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## ManjaroKDE (Jun 19, 2022)

I've only been dividend investing since the 1st part of April 22,  I'm obsessive, so I like to keep my share holding balanced.  I have 12 holdings of 30 shares each.  I'm sticking with well known companies.  That led to a small moral decision.  *I bought a tobacco company stock*, I was raised in a religious environment that preaches against those vices, don't smoke, don't drink or do drugs.  But live in a legal use state I realized that the tobacco companies are flush with cash they will be the big players in the legal weed production, just as well get on that train.

I have been DCAing most of the holdings to minimize my losses.  Started with 10 shares each and bought more when the time was right.  Back in the 90's I done real well playing Iomega stock and doing a little day trading, got nervous and quit that, too risky!  Lost interest during the early 2000's got back in and made myself and a few friends a bundle of cash moving our 401K's around daily.  Got stopped by management because I was embarrassing our corporate investors, there's more to that story, but not here, luckily I didn't lose my job over that.

DCA - Dollar Cost Averaging.


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## dseag2 (Jun 19, 2022)

I have plenty of other investments but my severance was paid in Carnival Corporation stock.  It was a bit over $14 a share in June 2020 when I was let go and it was decent sum.  My financial advisor and I agreed that I should hold onto it.  I figured it would be my "mad money" for things like home improvement and travel.  It reached $22 a share a few months ago and I sold off a small amount.  It is now at just over $9 per share.  The cruise industry has been hit particularly hard, and any major expenditures will have to wait most likely for a couple of years.  

It is actually a dividend stock but CCL hasn't paid dividends for some time.  I have other investments that do that.


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## mathjak107 (Jun 20, 2022)

I buy investments for total return , not how much of my investment value they distribute back to me , which I could have pulled from any investment


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## ManjaroKDE (Jun 20, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> I buy investments for total return , not how much of my investment value they distribute back to me , which I could have pulled from any investment


I went back over my posts.  I'm sorry, *MY *way of investing is not for anyone but myself.  I definitely wouldn't recommend it to others, I ignore all the advice from investment gurus, they get paid to post their opinions and that's just that *nothing more than opinions*.  Maybe it comes from *MY* gambling days (haven't been in a casino going on 12 years now), craps was my game of choice, there's always action happening, some days I walked away happy, most others were downers. I never planned to make it a vocation either.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 20, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> I've only been dividend investing since the 1st part of April 22,  I'm obsessive, so I like to keep my share holding balanced.  I have 12 holdings of 30 shares each.  I'm sticking with well known companies.  That led to a small moral decision.  *I bought a tobacco company stock*, I was raised in a religious environment that preaches against those vices, don't smoke, don't drink or do drugs.  But live in a legal use state I realized that the tobacco companies are flush with cash they will be the big players in the legal weed production, just as well get on that train.
> 
> I have been DCAing most of the holdings to minimize my losses.  Started with 10 shares each and bought more when the time was right.  Back in the 90's I done real well playing Iomega stock and doing a little day trading, got nervous and quit that, too risky!  Lost interest during the early 2000's got back in and made myself and a few friends a bundle of cash moving our 401K's around daily.  Got stopped by management because I was embarrassing our corporate investors, there's more to that story, but not here, luckily I didn't lose my job over that.
> 
> DCA - Dollar Cost Averaging.


Okay...so I see you're not shying away from stocks but you have your methods. As the old Excedrin commercial said "When something works...that's what you use". Well known companies is the way to go, although some have floundered in the past (G.E. for instance). Most of my holdings are in dividend and capital gains paying mutual funds and ETFs. 67% of my portfolio is in a Roth (did a conversion when I was working and added more until I retired in 1998). Since I started taking RMDs from my traditional IRA, which represents a relatively small portion of my portfolio, I've had Schwab send them directly to St. Jude so I don't pay taxes on those distributions since they are qualified charitable contributions. As it stands, I'm not paying taxes on most of my investment distributions. Except for the RMDs I don't take them.

I wouldn't have the patience or nerves for day trading. I'm Muslim and we are supposed to invest for the long term rather than day trade which is somewhat seen as gambling (of course that's forbidden too). Day trading seems like it needs to be a full time job to me. My Honoray Son did it for awhile. Muslims are also supposed to stay away from pork, alcohol, tobacco and gaming stocks as well as interest bearing investments, so I understand what you mean about the religious-moral decisions to consider.  It is a good thing you didn't lose your job behind your activities. I dollar cost averaged for part of the time I was still working and investing. I'm blessed to get a pension. The State offered a Deferred Compensation plan as well, but not a 401K.


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## Liberty (Jun 20, 2022)

Love a good quality dividend growth fund.  Big believer in cash flow history rich dividend producing companies.  Love em. To each his own.  I own 'em...lol:

https://advisor.morganstanley.com/c...ch-christopher-francis/WhyDividendsMatter.pdf


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## ManjaroKDE (Jun 20, 2022)

Liberty said:


> Love a good quality dividend growth fund.  Big believer in cash flow history rich dividend producing companies.  Love em. To each his own.  I own 'em...lol:
> 
> https://advisor.morganstanley.com/c...ch-christopher-francis/WhyDividendsMatter.pdf


Patience is a virtue, not my strong suit.  I still watch the semi-exciting action of my holdings and it's more interesting than 'FreeCell'.  I've never been one to stay the course.  Hopefully I will this time around.  Good luck with yours, though.

@OneEyedDiva just put a 10 share 'Buy'  order in for 'BEN'.  A little lower yield but growth is better.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 20, 2022)

Liberty said:


> Love a good quality dividend growth fund.  Big believer in cash flow history rich dividend producing companies.  Love em. To each his own.  I own 'em...lol:
> 
> https://advisor.morganstanley.com/c...ch-christopher-francis/WhyDividendsMatter.pdf


Me too Liberty. I saved the PDF document you linked to my desktop so I can read it later.


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## mathjak107 (Jun 23, 2022)

Any time someone writing an article to prove a point cherry picks a time frame  or index for comparison , like the above article did be  very Leary .

1991 to 2015 saw the s&p 500 return 9.84% cagr . 80% pay dividends

the russell 2000  index returned 12.82%
70% pay no dividends.

so one can find any set of data and indexes to try to skew a point


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## Brookswood (Jun 29, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> I buy investments for total return , not how much of my investment value they distribute back to me , which I could have pulled from any investment


I think that is the right way to view investments. When I buy my groceries the store owner doesn't care if my dollars came from dividend, capital gains, interest, or selling my coin collection.


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## Creek Pirate (Jul 16, 2022)

Now is a great time to look for growth / dividend stocks. Everything is on sale and the dividend paying stocks that wish to keep up the volume will increase their dividends to off set their stock loss. What I like to see is a high volume, sale priced stock, that has a nice dividend growth over years. Yes one likes to eat cake too. These stocks are out there now. It's nice to buy a stock that's low right now but even better is a long producer of dividends on top, to fold back into the stock as it rebounds. Now you do have to check stocks for dividend history, because some just gave out a years dividends just to keep the interest in there stocks. I like to make sure my bread stays buttered. Have fun!


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## mathjak107 (Jul 16, 2022)

Creek Pirate said:


> Now is a great time to look for growth / dividend stocks. Everything is on sale and the dividend paying stocks that wish to keep up the volume will increase their dividends to off set their stock loss. What I like to see is a high volume, sale priced stock, that has a nice dividend growth over years. Yes one likes to eat cake too. These stocks are out there now. It's nice to buy a stock that's low right now but even better is a long producer of dividends on top, to fold back into the stock as it rebounds. Now you do have to check stocks for dividend history, because some just gave out a years dividends just to keep the interest in there stocks. I like to make sure my bread stays buttered.


nonsense ,

if you understood the mechanics  of a dividend you would understand why dividends are a wash .
just like a fund that goes ex div and you have more shares at a lower price the next morning stocks do the same thing .

if you reinvest you have the same dollars compounding.

stocks tend to cut or suspend dividends when stocks get hit as well .

the bigger  the dividend the bigger the price reduction when it goes ex div .

it is appreciation in share price that is what determines your return .

the dividend is only a withdrawal method


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 16, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> Patience is a virtue, not my strong suit.  I still watch the semi-exciting action of my holdings and it's more interesting than 'FreeCell'.  I've never been one to stay the course.  Hopefully I will this time around.  Good luck with yours, though.
> 
> @OneEyedDiva just put a 10 share 'Buy'  order in for 'BEN'.  A little lower yield but growth is better.


The share price is attractive and the yield is good. According to Yahoo Finance, it's 4.77% which is better than the yields for any of my investments. My highest is RDIV at 3.60%. Did or do you have investments with higher yields than that?


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## mathjak107 (Jul 16, 2022)

including all dividends BEN is down 25% ytd .

it has averaged a loss of 7% a year for the last 5 years and it has lost money for 10 years now

it’s ten year cagr return is minus 1% and that is including all dividends 

wouldn’t touch it


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 16, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> including all dividends BEN is down 25% ytd .
> 
> it has averaged a loss of 7% a year for the last 5 years and it has lost money for 10 years now
> 
> ...


Good research MJ.  Being I have no intention of investing in BEN, I didn't dig that far. I knew you'd be on it though.


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## Liberty (Jul 16, 2022)

Don't know why the dividend stock discussion is like opening up a hornet's nest.  Don't think most people believe the dividends are free money, but good growth dividend stocks are the backbone of the market.  We are in a fund that has beat the S & P for over a decade and has had a 12% dividend growth rate.  This year, its down, but down far less than the market and other basic index funds... the dividends so far are up.

Personally I detest seeing the wide swings of a basic broad based fund.  

To each his own -


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## mathjak107 (Jul 17, 2022)

Liberty said:


> Don't know why the dividend stock discussion is like opening up a hornet's nest.  Don't think most people believe the dividends are free money, but good growth dividend stocks are the backbone of the market.  We are in a fund that has beat the S & P for over a decade and has had a 12% dividend growth rate.  This year, its down, but down far less than the market and other basic index funds... the dividends so far are up.
> 
> Personally I detest seeing the wide swings of a basic broad based fund.
> 
> To each his own -


Most people you will find do think of it as free money in the sense of being like interest where it is added to your base amount .

it is not , it is money withdrawn  from existing share value and handed to you no differenot then drawing money from a portfolio.

the portfolio is reduced by the amount of the withdrawal so it’s a wash .

few understand this…..

reinvesting when stocks are down also adds nothing more to the equation either .

how often have you heard the myth getting paid to wait ?

it’s a wash .

only new money added can take advantage of buying when prices are lower .

reinvesting only puts back the same dollars you had working for you …if you don’t reinvest then you made a withdrawal and have less dollars in that investment compounding


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## Creek Pirate (Jul 18, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> nonsense ,
> 
> if you understood the mechanics  of a dividend you would understand why dividends are a wash .
> just like a fund that goes ex div and you have more shares at a lower price the next morning stocks do the same thing .
> ...


Simply put, if I buy a stock that is down with the market that will rebound with the market that had a one time increase in it's dividends that has consistently over 10 years delivered consistently increasing dividends, then "nonsense" I will stick with. Yes I do reinvest the dividends. FAST


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## mathjak107 (Jul 18, 2022)

No different then any other stock that rebounds and does not pay a dividend.

all that counts is the total return ……a big dividend pay out is off set by the reduction in share value so again it’s a wash.

it is no different then all those funds that had whopping payouts and equal drops in share value.

when you woke up the next day you had more shares if your reinvested at a lower price and exact same dollars compounding for you at the ring of the bell that you had the day before


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## Creek Pirate (Jul 18, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> No different then any other stock that rebounds and does not pay a dividend.
> 
> all that counts is the total return ……a big dividend pay out is off set by the reduction in share value so again it’s a wash.
> 
> ...


Hey, if it's on sale and pay's dividends and will continue to rise in share value while having increasing dividends for years. That good enough for me. I also like to see the volume at greater than 1mil.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 18, 2022)

The problem is we spend 80% of all our investing time somewhere between the last low and last high .

just because a price is lower then The peak does not mean it’s a sale .

all it means is you are below the peak but still likely way above the low .

for that matter I still own some funds I bought in the 1980s .


for those to be a sale they would have to be lower then back then .

what we are really doing over time is buying high and selling higher.

so there really is no such thing as a sale as stocks are only worth what they sell for at any given point in time .

the fact something may be worth more off in the future does not mean it is a sale .

most of our homes are worth more today but that does not mean when we bought them they were on sale ..the fact is that is all they were worth at that point in time .

many stocks will have falling profits as financing costs rise and inflation hits their bottom line ..the fact they are selling for less is because that is all they are worth .

so don’t confuse future appreciation with some kind of sale


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## ManjaroKDE (Jul 19, 2022)

And exit!


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## Creek Pirate (Jul 20, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> The problem is we spend 80% of all our investing time somewhere between the last low and last high .
> 
> just because a price is lower then The peak does not mean it’s a sale .
> 
> ...


I hear ya, but it's all in one's opinion. I say it's on sale if it's low ( from yearly current high's)  due to market conditions and not due to value. Right now with inflation, lack of employees and supply issues, some investors have moved to safer grounds for there money driving down prices.... thus a sale.... the company still good and has value. I'll pick it up on the cheap.


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## Creek Pirate (Jul 20, 2022)

so don’t confuse future appreciation with some kind of sale ..... but that is a sale... selling less today, worth more tomorrow. A can a peas, 69 cents today on sale but tomorrow back to 79 cents.....


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## Creek Pirate (Jul 20, 2022)

To make this an interesting conversation, we should talk about investments to look at and then hear opinions on those investments. I believe that would bring interest to this forum.  Stocks like FAST, NVDA and say QLYD and so on.


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## Brookswood (Jul 20, 2022)

Money is fungible.  

Buy low, sell high. If you can't do that (IOW, you are a fallible human) try to buy lower and sell higher.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 21, 2022)

More money has been lost trying to be low and sell higher .

the trend is your friend is said for a reason .

we all thought low in 2008 was when stocks fell 2000 points .

well they ended up falling 4000 more triggering stop losses and panicking investors .


more money is made buying high and selling higher as the next stop is usually up unlike trying to be low where the next stop is usually down .

historically we think we are buying low but it really isn’t low when stocks fall as over time markets rise .

that is buying high and selling higher


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## mathjak107 (Jul 21, 2022)

Creek Pirate said:


> so don’t confuse future appreciation with some kind of sale ..... but that is a sale... selling less today, worth more tomorrow. A can a peas, 69 cents today on sale but tomorrow back to 79 cents.....


That sale is assuming somehow that sale of can of peas is worth more then it’s selling for when they reduce the price

that does not happen with stocks most  the time since markets are quite efficient and stocks are prices up to that moment based on fear ,greed and perception.

when you go to buy a house and it is appraised and that is the price you are paying in a slump that is the houses value .it may be lower then the peak but it is higher then the lows of decades ago ..that is no sale ,it merely is a value that is worth less for a reason


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## ManjaroKDE (Jul 21, 2022)

FYI - Latest recap of my investments, one can only hope! 5 months ago I purchased 10 equities aimed at DRIPs.  Market was not playing nice so a coupla weeks ago on a Friday when the market responded in my favor.  I sold 7 (including BEN & T) of the equities taking profits.  Kept the 3 highest yielding and rolled everything back into 5 CDs @ 1.75% & 1.90%, then strengthened my holdings of the 3 remaining ones.   All three will be reporting their earnings on the 28th of July, the 1st of Aug and the 3rd of Aug.  The reports all have been favorable.  Their average annual yield is around 8.32%.  Now I have somewhat equal amounts in MMAs, CDs and DRIPs.  My 2022 tax returns will be interesting to say the least.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 21, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> More money has been lost trying to be low and sell higher .
> 
> the trend is your friend is said for a reason .
> 
> ...


The bottom line is if you know you're getting an equity at a great price, then go for it. Obviously the prices aren't static so of course they'll go higher and lower at some point. One of my funds went down to $42 so I bought as many shares as I could at that time. It didn't take that long for it to get to the $60 range and by Jan 2022 was up to $71.49 a share. When I first bought that fund decades ago, shares were $17 and change. I wish I'd held on to it but I did manage to sell at a profit. I started buying more shares about 4 years ago when it was in the mid to high $30s range. Now it's pushing $60 again with this bear market happening.

BTW I have self tallying spreadsheets that show the value of each of my investments including gains and losses. I have self tallying spreadsheets for the dividends as well that give the same information. So *I can see* what the gains (or losses) have been on my shares and the reinvested dividends.
@Creek Pirate @Liberty


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## mathjak107 (Jul 22, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> FYI - Latest recap of my investments, one can only hope! 5 months ago I purchased 10 equities aimed at DRIPs.  Market was not playing nice so a coupla weeks ago on a Friday when the market responded in my favor.  I sold 7 (including BEN & T) of the equities taking profits.  Kept the 3 highest yielding and rolled everything back into 5 CDs @ 1.75% & 1.90%, then strengthened my holdings of the 3 remaining ones.   All three will be reporting their earnings on the 28th of July, the 1st of Aug and the 3rd of Aug.  The reports all have been favorable.  Their average annual yield is around 8.32%.  Now I have somewhat equal amounts in MMAs, CDs and DRIPs.  My 2022 tax returns will be interesting to say the least.


Annual yield means nothing ..they can yield 50% but if total return stinks you picked a loser


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## mathjak107 (Jul 22, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> The bottom line is if you know you're getting an equity at a great price, then go for it. Obviously the prices aren't static so of course they'll go higher and lower at some point. One of my funds went down to $42 so I bought as many shares as I could at that time. It didn't take that long for it to get to the $60 range and by Jan 2022 was up to $71.49 a share. When I first bought that fund decades ago, shares were $17 and change. I wish I'd held on to it but I did manage to sell at a profit. I started buying more shares about 4 years ago when it was in the mid to high $30s range. Now it's pushing $60 again with this bear market happening.
> 
> BTW I have self tallying spreadsheets that show the value of each of my investments including gains and losses. I have self tallying spreadsheets for the dividends as well that give the same information. So *I can see* what the gains (or losses) have been on my shares and the reinvested dividends.
> @Creek Pirate @Liberty


you dont know you are getting a great price until the future .

look at great companies like cisco , ge , kodak , Polaroid , citi bank , gm , etc

all looked like the proverbial "on sale " . when they initially fell . only they never came back to where they were .

this is why i dislike that word on sale .

markets are efficient and based on that moments fear , greed and future perception of the stock they are fairly valued .

they are lower then the last peak and higher then the lows .

with good stocks and funds we are actually buying higher over time not lower as there value increases so they are rarely on sale even in a dip ..

it is no different then a house .

when we buy the house is apraised for current value .  if you are buying at that price in a dip , that is all the house is worth .

we just hope over time it rises with inflation and the market like any investment but we bought at fair market value


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## ManjaroKDE (Jul 22, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> Annual yield means nothing ..they can yield 50% but if total return stinks you picked a loser


Total return doesn't mean nothing unless you've sold, had to claim a capital gain and paid taxes.   Holding,  not reinvesting the dividends is a way to realize a gain,  not socking it away into a savings account paying less than 1% then donating it to avoid fees and taxes, or buying useless junk chasing rewards @ 2%.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 22, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> Total return doesn't mean nothing unless you've sold, had to claim a capital gain and paid taxes.   Holding,  not reinvesting the dividends is a way to realize a gain,  not socking it away into a savings account paying less than 1% then donating it to avoid fees and taxes.


nonsense .

total return is what your investment and portfolio is worth -period .

whether i sell or not  that value sets my draw every year .

anyone retiring needs to set a safe withdrawal rate off those values .

in fact unless one maintains at least a 2% real return (inflation adjusted return ) for the first 15 years  of a 30 year retirement , then a 4% draw rate will not hold .

never confuse the fact you dont care what your investment is worth with the fact it counts whether you sell or not.

at the end of the day total return is what counts , selling or not .

otherwise it is like saying i am pulling money out of my portfolio but   i dont care  how the investments are doing .

that is bad financial logic


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## mathjak107 (Jul 22, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> FYI - Latest recap of my investments, one can only hope! 5 months ago I purchased 10 equities aimed at DRIPs.  Market was not playing nice so a coupla weeks ago on a Friday when the market responded in my favor.  I sold 7 (including BEN & T) of the equities taking profits.  Kept the 3 highest yielding and rolled everything back into 5 CDs @ 1.75% & 1.90%, then strengthened my holdings of the 3 remaining ones.   All three will be reporting their earnings on the 28th of July, the 1st of Aug and the 3rd of Aug.  The reports all have been favorable.  Their average annual yield is around 8.32%.  Now I have somewhat equal amounts in MMAs, CDs and DRIPs.  My 2022 tax returns will be interesting to say the least.


Fidelity has bank CDs you can buy .

I just did a  One year ladder in 3,6,9 and 12 month CDs …they pay anywhere from 2.40 to 3%


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 22, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> you dont know you are getting a great price until the future .
> 
> look at great companies like cisco , ge , kodak , Polaroid , citi bank , gm , etc
> 
> ...


Aaaah....apparently you missed the part about me being psychic.   Seriously...I am, but not on demand.


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## ManjaroKDE (Jul 22, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> Fidelity has bank CDs you can buy .
> 
> I just did a  One year ladder in 3,6,9 and 12 month CDs …they pay anywhere from 2.40 to 3%


Correct, but looking at my budget the minimums were a little restrictive for my taste.   Thanks.

Recap for 07/21/22 markets mostly down.  My 3, 2 green-1 red (up .92%, up .75% & dn .54%).  Yield 8.30%.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 22, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> Correct, but looking at my budget the minimums were a little restrictive for my taste.   Thanks.


For a one year ladder you need at least 4k


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## ManjaroKDE (Aug 13, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> For a one year ladder you need at least 4k


I got a little too nervous, sold my holdings when they were up.  Capital gains will enter the equation next April.  Made a little money but wasn't getting rich. The equities I had are up again more since all their earnings are in.  Actually it became somewhat of a nervous habit with me.  Still buying CDs though, things got a little messed up with Cap1 besides the interest was higher, they also pay more on my savings than I could get elsewhere.  Hence, building my own 'ladder'.  Slower but the money that was sit aside wasn't earning squat & I could let it sit for the 1 yr maturity window.   *I guess patience isn't one of my virtues*.

What is amazing is I haven't cannibalized my 401K since retirement, only taking out what is required each year.


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## Blessed (Aug 13, 2022)

I pulled most everything out of the market when covid hit.  I have one account in a low risk area.  Just making a little bit now but at least the majority it safe, not jumping in again for now.  Things are still to risky for me.  I am not a financial wizard so I would rather be safe than sorry.


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## mathjak107 (Aug 14, 2022)

Be sure and tell us when it’s safe to go in ..

I have been an investor since 1987 and there. Never has been a time it didn’t look like we were headed in to some kind of mess.
we are either falling with no bottom insight , in a bubble or waiting for the other shoe to drop .

trying to decide when it’s safe is a losing game


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## rgp (Aug 15, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> Be sure and tell us when it’s safe to go in ..
> 
> I have been an investor since 1987 and there. Never has been a time it didn’t look like we were headed in to some kind of mess.
> we are either falling with no bottom insight , in a bubble or waiting for the other shoe to drop .
> ...



 I'm still holding P&G, but even there the stock dropped some $20.00 p/share under the high. And now it is up & down on a day-to-day basis. At much smaller amounts .


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## mathjak107 (Aug 15, 2022)

rgp said:


> I'm still holding P&G, but even there the stock dropped some $20.00 p/share under the high. And now it is up & down on a day-to-day basis. At much smaller amounts .


look at at&t stock . that was once believed to be the stock of choice for widows and orphans .

not only has it been a dog but it has been far riskier than a simple s&p 500 fund for a long long time


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## rgp (Aug 15, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> look at at&t stock . that was once believed to be the stock of choice for widows and orphans .
> 
> not only has it been a dog but it has been far riskier than a simple s&p 500 fund for a long long time



 I'm hoping P&G "inches" back up a-bit ... I'm seriously thinking @ that time I may dump it ? or at least a large percent of my holdings in it. I'm 73, I don't have a long term ?? of growth . 

I have a new member of my family, just five days ago .... maybe cash out, take the cash and start an account for her ?


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## mathjak107 (Aug 15, 2022)

rgp said:


> I'm hoping P&G "inches" back up a-bit ... I'm seriously thinking @ that time I may dump it ? or at least a large percent of my holdings in it. I'm 73, I don't have a long term ?? of growth .
> 
> I have a new member of my family, just five days ago .... maybe cash out, take the cash and start an account for her ?


Well assuming many of us will live to 83 or 93 especially if married where at least one goes on longer , this is still long term money.

however I am not a fan of individual stocks in retirement where not only do you have market risk but now you also take on individual company risk .

i am only a fan of diversified funds except for speculating which is betting on the outcome of a particular company


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 15, 2022)

rgp said:


> I'm hoping P&G "inches" back up a-bit ... I'm seriously thinking @ that time I may dump it ? or at least a large percent of my holdings in it. I'm 73, I don't have a long term ?? of growth .
> 
> I have a new member of my family, just five days ago .... maybe cash out, take the cash and start an account for her ?


I’m not sure of the amount or your tax situation, but it might make sense to transfer the stock instead of selling it and giving cash to the child.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Gifts_to_Minors_Act


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## rgp (Aug 15, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> Well assuming many of us will live to 83 or 93 especially if married where at least one goes on longer , this is still long term money.
> 
> however I am not a fan of individual stocks in retirement where not only do you have market risk but now you also take on individual company risk .
> 
> i am only a fan of diversified funds except for speculating which is betting on the outcome of a particular company



 83 - 93 WoW! you are much more optimistic than I <grin> 

 I am not married so ..... If one listens to the "experts" I'm doomed .... LOL!


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## rgp (Aug 15, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> I’m it sure of the amount or your tax situation, but it might make sense to transfer the stock instead of selling it and giving cash to the child.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Gifts_to_Minors_Act



  Good point to consider ...... and i will, Thanks.


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