# Rittenhouse found not guilty on all charges



## HarryHawk (Nov 19, 2021)

Kyle Rittenhouse was acquitted Friday on all charges in the shootings that killed two men and injured a third during last year’s violence in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

The 18-year-old defendant broke down in tears and collapsed in his seat as the not-guilty verdict was read out in court. The shaking teen hugged one of his lawyers before he was whisked out of the courtroom through the judge’s chambers by a sheriff’s deputy as he was driven off — beaming in the back seat of the vehicle.

https://nypost.com/2021/11/19/kyle-rittenhouse-acquitted-of-all-charges-in-kenosha-shooting/


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## HarryHawk (Nov 19, 2021)

IMHO, justice was served --

In a criminal case, the prosecution bears the burden of proving that the defendant is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. This means that the prosecution *must convince the jury* that there is no other reasonable explanation that can come from the evidence presented at trial.


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## RadishRose (Nov 19, 2021)

I have not followed this trial very closely.


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## Nathan (Nov 19, 2021)

Wow, I haven't seen such a miscarriage of justice since the OJ Simpson trial.     Oh well.


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## fmdog44 (Nov 19, 2021)

Case closed move on.


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## win231 (Nov 19, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> I have not followed this trial very closely.


It's really quite simple.
Armed person is attacked by 3 idiots.
Idiot #1 hits him in the head with a skateboard.  Armed person shoots & kills him.
Idiot #2 kicks him in the face.  Armed person shoots & kills him.
Idiot #3 points a gun at him.  Armed person shoots him & he survives.
Armed person is found not guilty.


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## win231 (Nov 19, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Wow, I haven't seen such a miscarriage of justice since the OJ Simpson trial.     Oh well.


The OJ Simpson trial was a miscarriage of justice.  _But that miscarriage was caused by racist police officers who committed perjury & didn't follow the rules of evidence which led to "Reasonable Doubt."_


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## Knight (Nov 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> It's really quite simple.
> Armed person is attacked by 3 idiots.
> Idiot #1 hits him in the head with a skateboard.  Armed person shoots & kills him.
> Idiot #2 kicks him in the face.  Armed person shoots & kills him.
> ...


Really good summation of why found not guilty


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## Ladybj (Nov 19, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> I have not followed this trial very closely.


Neither have I RadishRose.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> It's really quite simple.
> Armed person is attacked by 3 idiots.
> Idiot #1 hits him in the head with a skateboard.  Armed person shoots & kills him.
> Idiot #2 kicks him in the face.  Armed person shoots & kills him.
> ...



Actually, Idiot #1 was Rosenberg, who tried to take "armed person's" rifle from him after previously threatening to kill him.  The "kicker" has been identified but was not shot.  Idiot #2 (Huber) was the skateboard user.  You have Idiot #3 right, though.  

All of these folks were white, as is Rittenhouse.


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## Ladybj (Nov 19, 2021)

I have not been keeping up with the trial.  But I will say, if it was self defense - him, his Attorneys and the Judge will sleep well tonight... if not..I will leave it at that.


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## AnnieA (Nov 19, 2021)

The jury took their job very seriously as we've seen by the evidence and procedural documents they've requested over the past few days. They did not rush into this.  For them to find him not guilty, everyone had to agree  They've  been threatened and know their not guilty verdict could lead their community into rioting and chaos again.  I have felt compassion for what they've been going through for the duration of this trial and have been/am glad I'm not in their shoes.


There's no perfect criminal trial system; trial by jury is an ancient one and it's still used by most of the free world.  Pros and cons, agreement with verdicts or not ...it's what we've got.

.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 19, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> The jury took their job very seriously as we've seen by the evidence and procedure documents they've requested over the past few days. They did not rush into this.  For them to find him not guilty, everyone had to agree  They've  been threatened and know their not guilty verdict could lead their community into rioting and chaos again.  I have felt compassion for what they've been going through for the duration of this trial and am glad I'm not in their shoes.
> 
> 
> There's no perfect criminal trial system; trial by jury is an ancient one and it's used by most of the free world.  Pros and cons, agreement with verdicts or not ...it's what we've got.
> ...



That's a good point.  All of us watched bits and pieces of the trial on tv or read items in the news.  The jurors spent all day, every day for weeks hearing testimony and deliberating the arguments.  They knew more than we did and acted as they saw fit.


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 19, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Case closed move on.


I agree, but somehow this feels like a bad day for America.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 19, 2021)

That's unfortunate, but not unexpected.  He's one step closer to being an official violent Proud Boy.  I'm more concerned of the outcome of those charged with the murder of Mr. Arbery.  Those racist inbreds who hunted down and murdered another innocent black American have to be held accountable.  Too many modern day lynchings in this country between the cops and the racist inbreds.  Too many armed vigilantes violating our laws and acting out on their racism and deep-seated hatred and anger.


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## PamfromTx (Nov 19, 2021)

I am so glad that I did not follow this case.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 19, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I agree, but somehow this feels like a bad day for America.


It is a bad day for America, and a good day for violent armed vigilantes.  With the direction this country is going, I'm glad I'm old and have no kids.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 19, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I agree, but somehow this feels like a bad day for America.



On the positive side, Joseph Rosenbaum will not be raping any more children.


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## Colleen (Nov 19, 2021)

Anyone can get away with murder in this country. I guess his fake crocodile tears convinced the jury he was innocent and having a looney for a judge didn't hurt, either. I told my husband from the beginning he'd get off. Wish I would have been proven wrong. What's he going to get away with next? This kids clearly has mental issues.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 19, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> It is a bad day for America, and a good day for violent armed vigilantes.  With the direction this country is going, I'm glad I'm old and have no kids.




If Rittenhouse was a "violent armed vigilante," who were Rosenbaum, Huber and Grosskreutz?  Grosskreutz was armed.  Rosenbaum and Huber were violent felons.  All three were in Kenosha for purposes of riot and destruction.  I sympathize with no one in this case.


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## mrstime (Nov 19, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Wow, I haven't seen such a miscarriage of justice since the OJ Simpson trial.     Oh well.


Agreed, he went there deliberately with a gun (that he was not legally allowed to have) looking for trouble. Wonder if he will get away with it the next time he kills someone.


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## OneEyedDiva (Nov 19, 2021)

Why am I NOT surprised.   @SeaBreeze...Your first reply is so eloquently stated and unfortunately SO true!! Thank you for that!


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## PamfromTx (Nov 19, 2021)

PamfromTx said:


> I am so glad that I did not follow this case.



God bless America.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 19, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> If Rittenhouse was a "violent armed vigilante," who were Rosenbaum, Huber and Grosskreutz?  Grosskreutz was armed.  Rosenbaum and Huber were violent felons.  All three were in Kenosha for purposes of riot and destruction.  I sympathize with no one in this case.


Rittenhouse was the killer with the semi-auto.  Rittenhouse was the murderer.  Rittenhouse had no business being there but to start trouble and try out his new toy.  Rittenhouse caused the interaction which left two people dead.  Rittenhouse is a friend and follower of the Proud Boys, another violent mob of vigilantes who prey on those participating in BLM protests.


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## Nathan (Nov 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> The OJ Simpson trial was a miscarriage of justice.  _But that miscarriage was caused by racist police officers who committed perjury & didn't follow the rules of evidence which led to "Reasonable Doubt."_


Nope, sorry. The LAPD's chain of custody documentation for handling evidence was sloppy, as was the case for many agencies. Johnny Cochran knew that and skillfully made that a center piece issue.   But, the main factor in OJ's acquittal was Jury nullification.


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## AnnieA (Nov 19, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> That's unfortunate, but not unexpected.  He's one step closer to being an official violent Proud Boy.



I worry about where he'll go from here.  He was already grandiose before the killings...can't imagine the impact the adulation so many foolish people have given him at his age have had in strengthening that.  That'll further increase with the not guilty verdicts.  And I don't think he'll grasp that a jury finding him not guilty doesn't mean there's not a moral stain on his soul.


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## WheatenLover (Nov 19, 2021)

HarryHawk said:


> IMHO, justice was served --
> 
> In a criminal case, the prosecution bears the burden of proving that the defendant is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. This means that the prosecution *must convince the jury* that there is no other reasonable explanation that can come from the evidence presented at trial.


Two words:  Jury nullification.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 19, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> It is a bad day for America, and a good day for violent armed vigilantes.  With the direction this country is going, I'm glad I'm old and have no kids.




How many people do "violent armed vigilantes" kill each year?  A hundred?   Meanwhile black teens slay each other by the thousands, and nobody really cares.  In my city, a nine year old boy and a 14 year old boy were just killed because they got caught between some black teen gangs engaged in "dispute resolution."  

https://richmond.com/news/local/boy...cle_a2281268-2a44-565b-8141-92d42d254235.html


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## Nathan (Nov 19, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Rittenhouse was the killer with the semi-auto.  Rittenhouse was the murderer.  Rittenhouse had no business being there but to start trouble and try out his new toy.  Rittenhouse caused the interaction which left two people dead.  Rittenhouse is a friend and follower of the Proud Boys, another violent mob of vigilantes who prey on those participating in BLM protests.


@SeaBreeze ,   Nicely stated summary of the components of the case.


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## Tom 86 (Nov 19, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> If Rittenhouse was a "violent armed vigilante," who were Rosenbaum, Huber and Grosskreutz?  Grosskreutz was armed.  Rosenbaum and Huber were violent felons.  All three were in Kenosha for purposes of riot and destruction.  I sympathize with no one in this case.


All along they kept saying he was there to protect a business he worked at.  The others were there to do damage or riot & loot businesses.
  If I would have been in his shoes I would have done the exact same thing.    We need more people like Rittenhouse to stand up & take America back like it use to be.  Where there were NO riots or destructions.


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## AnnieA (Nov 19, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Wow, I haven't seen such a miscarriage of justice since the OJ Simpson trial.     Oh well.



Don't remember much about the trial specifics.  Can't remember in OJ's case if there was competent prosecution.

In this trial, Prosecutor Binger had a lot of incompetent moments and has in past ones as well.  He was so bad in a 2018 child ****** assault case that his actions resulted a mistrial in what should've been a slam dunk conviction.  The day that the day Binger was assigned prosecutor in this trial was a very lucky day for Kyle Rittenhouse.

.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 19, 2021)

Part of the issue are these violent protests. It started a year or two before the 2016 election season(NO politics! just the nature of a physical protest).

When I see people going to protests with masks, trash can lids, protective gear instead of signs you knew that would escalate to other gear, equipment and tactics. But many in law enforcement in areas prone to frequent and violent protests started declaring battling protestors 'mutual combatants'. Also with huge crowds it's probably best to try and manage not control the crowds/protestors with designated areas and prioritize criteria for the pursuit and arrest of individuals.

If one is bringing more than signs and literature to a protest they want more than speeches and debate.

Should add if one gets hit by a flying object, punched, pushed etc don't expect to file charges without absolute proof like video now a days. Testimony might not cut it.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 19, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> I worry about where he'll go from here.  He was already grandiose before the killings...can't imagine the impact the adulation so many foolish people have given him at his age have had in strengthening that.  That'll further increase with the not guilty.  And I don't think he'll grasp that a jury finding him not guilty doesn't mean there's not a moral stain on his soul.





SeaBreeze said:


> Rittenhouse was the killer with the semi-auto.  Rittenhouse was the murderer.  Rittenhouse had no business being there but to start trouble and try out his new toy.  Rittenhouse caused the interaction which left two people dead.  Rittenhouse is a friend and follower of the Proud Boys, another violent mob of vigilantes who prey on those participating in BLM protests.




Wow.  Weren't you a moderator here once?  Glad you are so objective.   

What "business" did the others have there?  Were they trying to put out fires?  Was Rosenbaum looking for some children to rape?  Was Huber looking for some good spots for skateboarding?  This was a violent riot, not a "protest."  Grosskreutz had a semi-automatic pistol (expired permit) and by his own testimony pointed it at Rittenhouse before he was shot.   Standing around with a rifle, ostensibly to protect property, as Rittenhouse was doing is as legitimate "business" as setting dumpster fires. And the rioters initiated violent contact.  Even the prosecution didn't claim Rittenhouse was there to "hunt" anybody.  

BTW as far as anybody knows, Rittenhouse had no contact with Proud Boys until four months AFTER the shooting.  That's when he allowed them to take his picture in a bar where he was having a beer with his mother.   So that is basically a full of s___ argument.


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## HarryHawk (Nov 19, 2021)

When chaos is allowed to run rampant, you end up with  - chaos


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 19, 2021)

mrstime said:


> Agreed, he went there deliberately with a gun (that he was not legally allowed to have) looking for trouble. Wonder if he will get away with it the next time he kills someone.





Tom 86 said:


> All along they kept saying he was there to protect a business he worked at.  The others were there to do damage or riot & loot businesses.
> If I would have been in his shoes I would have done the exact same thing.    We need more people like Rittenhouse to stand up & take America back like it use to be.  Where there were NO riots or destructions.




No, he was a lifeguard.  He didn't work at the car business and no one asked him to protect it.  I would never in a million years let my 17 year old son go anywhere near a riot site, especially with a semi-automatic rifle. 

That's the problem with cases like this, people let political spin get in the way of the facts.  

Rittenhouse isn't going to kill anybody else.  He's a dimwitted, pudgy-faced kid, not a vicious killer.  He put himself in an awful situation and the jury believed he was justified in using deadly force to get himself out of it.


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## Remy (Nov 19, 2021)

I was in my car, had just left the bank and heard it live on KGO Newstalk from San Francisco. I was very, very surprised. I'm not sure what to think. I don't know all the details of the events or the trial.


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## Ladybj (Nov 19, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I agree, but somehow this feels like a bad day for America.


If he is guilty and got off - a bad day for him.  I don't wish ill will on anyone but Karma is something else.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 19, 2021)

mrstime said:


> Agreed, he went there deliberately with a gun (that he was not legally allowed to have) looking for trouble. Wonder if he will get away with it the next time he kills someone.





Ladybj said:


> If he is guilty and got off - a bad day for him.  I don't wish ill will on anyone but Karma is something else.



I think OJ preferred bad karma to the electric chair.


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## Ladybj (Nov 19, 2021)

PamfromTx said:


> I am so glad that I did not follow this case.


Same here Pam.  After hubby and I heard the verdict - I asked him what was the case about. He said too much to go into - you can look it up.  I said, no - that's ok.


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## helenbacque (Nov 19, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> I worry about where he'll go from here/.  He was already grandiose before the killings...can't imagine the impact the adulation so many foolish people have given him at his age have had in strengthening that.  That'll further increase with the not guilty verdicts.  And I don't think he'll grasp that a jury finding him not guilty doesn't mean there's not a moral stain on his soul.


He might be going to work in Washington.  Gaetz is a member of Congress from Florida.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/11/18/matt-gaetz-kyle-rittenhouse-congressional-intern/

"Matt Gaetz says he might offer Kyle Rittenhouse a job as a congressional intern as jury debates the teen’s case ........ "​


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## Ladybj (Nov 19, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> I think OJ preferred bad karma to the electric chair.


I guess... but in some cases the electric chair is less suffering. jmo.  However, I wish no ill will on anyone.


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## squatting dog (Nov 19, 2021)




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## JimBob1952 (Nov 19, 2021)

helenbacque said:


> He might be going to work in Washington.  Gaetz is a member of Congress from Florida.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/11/18/matt-gaetz-kyle-rittenhouse-congressional-intern/
> 
> "Matt Gaetz says he might offer Kyle Rittenhouse a job as a congressional intern as jury debates the teen’s case ........ "​



Truly nauseating.


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## win231 (Nov 19, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Nope, sorry. The LAPD's chain of custody documentation for handling evidence was sloppy, as was the case for many agencies. Johnny Cochran knew that and skillfully made that a center piece issue.   But, the main factor in OJ's acquittal was Jury nullification.


Unlike your _opinion _of "Jury Nullification" being the reason, a police officer named Mark Fuhrman was_ prove_n to have lied under oath about never using the "N" word.  A recording of this moron officer bragging about how his "Department was so tight they could pull black people over  & fabricate evidence to arrest them" is what did it.  That clearly demonstrated racism as a possible motive for framing OJ by planting evidence.  That is why he was acquitted, even though he was guilty.
_
"The tapes include many racist slurs and remarks made by Fuhrman, including uses of the word "n----r," descriptions of police brutality perpetrated on black suspects, misogynist slurs and descriptions of the harassment and intimidation of female Los Angeles police officers by male officers. Portions of the tapes were admitted into evidence during the 1995 O. J. Simpson murder trial. In the tapes Fuhrman also made many references to the "planting of evidence" and implied that police brutality and evidence planting were common practice in the Los Angeles Police Department."_

Suggested reading (even though it will make you uncomfortable):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuhrman_tapes


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## Irwin (Nov 19, 2021)

HarryHawk said:


> When chaos is allowed to run rampant, you end up with  - chaos


ATLAS STAFFING: NOW HIRING

There needs to be a witty caption for that image.


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## Irwin (Nov 19, 2021)

The verdict is exactly what I thought it would be. Rittenhouse was defending himself in all three instances where he shot someone. It's irrelevant in the eyes of the law that had he not been walking around with an assault-style rifle, he wouldn't have been attacked by Rosenbaum — the first person he killed. That's because walking around with an assault-style rifle is perfectly legal in this day and age. It may be crazy, but it's legal.

It's also irrelevant that the other men who attacked Rittenhouse might have thought that he was an active shooter. He has a right to use deadly force to defend himself. I wonder how that would play out in the trial of a bona fide active shooter. How would the jury rule?


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## Nathan (Nov 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> Unlike your _opinion _of "Jury Nullification" being the reason, a police officer named Mark Fuhrman was_ prove_n to have lied under oath about never using the "N" word.  A recording of this moron officer bragging about how his "Department was so tight they could pull black people over  & fabricate evidence to arrest them" is what did it.  That clearly demonstrated racism as a possible motive for framing OJ by planting evidence.  That is why he was acquitted, even though he was guilty.
> 
> _"The tapes include many racist slurs and remarks made by Fuhrman, including uses of the word "n----r," descriptions of police brutality perpetrated on black suspects, misogynist slurs and descriptions of the harassment and intimidation of female Los Angeles police officers by male officers. Portions of the tapes were admitted into evidence during the 1995 O. J. Simpson murder trial. In the tapes Fuhrman also made many references to the "planting of evidence" and implied that police brutality and evidence planting were common practice in the Los Angeles Police Department."_
> 
> ...


@win231 ,  I knew that you would go google hoping to come up with a rebuttal,  since my post pointed out your erroneous statement.  The "suggested reading" that's supposed to make me feel uncomfortable is another example of your thin skinned snarkiness.  But I'm not judging, that's just how you are.

So, let's move on:  Fuhrman did indeed lie about having used the "N" word in the tape he made for the screenwriter who was wanting to do a screenplay and a novel.   But, there is no evidence whatsoever that Fuhrman did anything improper during the investigation.   However, defense attorney Johnny Cochran was aware of the tapes, and made maximum use of them to throw doubt on Fuhrman's credibility.     In addition, the trial judge(Lance Ito) was politically motivated(much like Judge Schroeder in the Rittenhouse case) and allowed Johnny Cochran to load the jury with sympathetic members.  The rest is history...jury nullification.

@win231, just so you know:  I watched the OJ trial literally gavel to gavel, from day one to the conclusion on Court TV, as I was working nights and weekends at the time, which enabled me to be at home while the trial was covered live.
If there's anything else about the OJ Simpson trial(or legal matters in general)that you need clarification with, please don't hesitate to reply back.


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## Ruthanne (Nov 19, 2021)

I am pleased with the verdict.  IMO he was defending himself!!  You can put misleading labels on anyone you wish but this is a clear case of self-defense.


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## Nathan (Nov 19, 2021)

No doubt Rittenhouse's victim's / victim's family will pursue justice in civil court, in the absence of justice in today's verdict.


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 19, 2021)

Nathan said:


> No doubt Rittenhouse's victim's / victim's family will pursue justice in civil court, in the absence of justice in today's verdict.


IMO you can’t get blood from a turnip and this kid is definitely a turnip.


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## Nathan (Nov 19, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO you can’t get blood from a turnip and this kid is definitely a turnip.


With a sizable civil judgement against him, at least he'll stay a turnip.


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## palides2021 (Nov 19, 2021)

mrstime said:


> Agreed, he went there deliberately with a gun (that he was not legally allowed to have) looking for trouble. Wonder if he will get away with it the next time he kills someone.


I had the same thought!


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## ohioboy (Nov 19, 2021)

Nathan said:


> With a sizable civil judgement against him, at least he'll stay a turnip.


Bankruptcy will wipe it out.


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## Ruthanne (Nov 19, 2021)

Just remember, when you *attack someone violently* or *pull a gun and aim it at them*, you just may get yourself killed!

I can see this issue is political to some here and that's unfortunate.  Some believe that Kyle should have layed down and let them beat him to death or blow his head off.  Well, any smart kid wouldn't let that happen and he didn't!  I salute you Kyle for using the sense God gave you!  

I have also seen what the BLM movement protestors did in the downtown area here.  Destroyed about 64 businesses-put a whole lot of people and businesses out of employment.  I saw them on videotape and they were a bunch of armed thugs.  I could see the anger and hatred they had. They set about 5 police cars on fire, too.  That seems to be what has happened in many cities even though BLM may not have been started for that purpose.  

But take away the facts of it being a BLM protest and a white kid who killed 2 people.  They were all people there for a reason.  Kyle R sought to help the police that were and have been getting attacked for quite awhile now.  The police have been giving their lives and protecting us for a long time.  And take away why he was here and then he was just a kid getting attacked and almost killed and so he* Defended *himself.  Damn!  I would do the same if I were in his shoes!


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## win231 (Nov 19, 2021)

Irwin said:


> ATLAS STAFFING: NOW HIRING
> 
> There needs to be a witty caption for that image.


How 'bout _"Fire Dept. Now Hiring."_


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## Nathan (Nov 19, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Bankruptcy will wipe it out.


It may be best to sue Rittenhouse's parents, and put a lien on an real property they may have, as he was 17 at the time,


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## ohioboy (Nov 19, 2021)

Nathan said:


> It may be best to sue Rittenhouse's parents, and put a lien on an real property they may have, as he was 17 at the time,


Just checked WI parental liability law. IF found liable, damage is limited to $5,000.00. Plus the act (s) of the child must be found to be wanton wilful and malicious.


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## palides2021 (Nov 19, 2021)

I didn't follow the Rittenhouse case closely, but learned bits and pieces from the news.

Here are my thoughts, and they may already have been discussed before, for which 
I apologize if this is a rehash:

1) First of all, he killed two people. No matter if they accosted him, he killed them. In school fights, kids 
didn't fight back bullies with guns (typically) they fight with their hands on an equal footing. Rittenhouse touting a 
weapon was like a truck mowing down people standing in front of it. Too much force.
2) He put himself in harm's way by going there. If he hadn't gone there, these people would not have died.
3) He carried a weapon that he should not have been carrying. 
4) In the past, minors that did violent deeds before they were adults, ended up in jail sooner or later. Is this a pattern? Time will tell. And if he does it again, all those people that acquitted him will have egg on their faces.
5) He should get some penance for killing others - maybe do community service, or something for him to learn his lesson. Watching him crying, I honestly didn't feel sorry for him. Instead, the thought occurred to me that he was more concerned about himself than about those he killed (now he may have said he was sorry, and if he did, I take #5 back).

These are my thoughts....


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## Irwin (Nov 19, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO you can’t get blood from a turnip and this kid is definitely a turnip.


People donated nearly 1/2 million dollars to his fund, and I think the lawyers cost a little over $300k, so he has a few dollars left over.

That said, I doubt the "victim's" family would win any civil suit since the "victims" were the aggressors.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 19, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Wow.  Weren't you a moderator here once?  Glad you are so objective.
> 
> What "business" did the others have there?  Were they trying to put out fires?  Was Rosenbaum looking for some children to rape?  Was Huber looking for some good spots for skateboarding?  This was a violent riot, not a "protest."  Grosskreutz had a semi-automatic pistol (expired permit) and by his own testimony pointed it at Rittenhouse before he was shot.   Standing around with a rifle, ostensibly to protect property, as Rittenhouse was doing is as legitimate "business" as setting dumpster fires. And the rioters initiated violent contact.  Even the prosecution didn't claim Rittenhouse was there to "hunt" anybody.
> 
> BTW as far as anybody knows, Rittenhouse had no contact with Proud Boys until four months AFTER the shooting.  That's when he allowed them to take his picture in a bar where he was having a beer with his mother.   So that is basically a full of s___ argument.


First of all, my having been a moderator here has nothing to do with this Rittenhouse murder trial, and by the way, I am objective.

There is no doubt that the others involved were scum, but Rittenhouse still should not have shown up there with a semi-automatic rifle strapped to his chest.  If he didn't arrive looking for action, he wouldn't have had to murder two people in self defense. 

 Just like Zimmerman followed his victim with his gun on his person, even though the cops told him to back off, and ended up taking a life in self defense.  Had Zimmerman let the cops do their job, Martin would still be breathing today. 

 Rittenhouse was hot to use his weapon on somebody, or it wouldn't have been strapped to his chest.  Posing with the Proud Boys the way he did was very telling, whether he knew them or not before he killed in Kenosha.  I wouldn't pose with people like that, wouldn't want to be associated with them at all. 

We don't need gun nutters who want to feel important in this country going around killing people with their weapons.  The amount of homegrown terrorists of late is appalling.  That's not the kind of country I grew up in or want to live in.


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## Ruthanne (Nov 19, 2021)

Yay!!  Justice prevailed as those with GOOD sense know.  Those who blindly follow what their potitical party tells them to will still be blind, unfortunately.  Thank God I don't have a political party!! Yay!!


----------



## win231 (Nov 19, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> I didn't follow the Rittenhouse case closely, but learned bits and pieces from the news.
> 
> Here are my thoughts, and they may already have been discussed before, for which
> I apologize if this is a rehash:
> ...


1.  In school fights neither combatant (usually) has a weapon.  A skateboard is a deadly weapon when used to hit someone in the head.  That's why deadly force was justified.
2.  Going there was stupid, but not illegal.  Being stupid is not a crime.
3.  The weapon he was openly carrying was legal to openly carry in that state.  However, the concealed handgun Grosskruetz pointed at Kyle before he was shot was not legal because his concealed carry permit was expired - which is the same as not having one.  Therefore, the only person who should not have been carrying a gun was Grosskruetz.
5.  Kyle _*is*_ sorry - sorry that he was forced to defend himself.


----------



## dseag2 (Nov 19, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> That's unfortunate, but not unexpected.  He's one step closer to being an official violent Proud Boy.  I'm more concerned of the outcome of those charged with the murder of Mr. Arbery.  Those racist inbreds who hunted down and murdered another innocent black American have to be held accountable.  Too many modern day lynchings in this country between the cops and the racist inbreds.  Too many armed vigilantes violating our laws and acting out on their racism and deep-seated hatred and anger.


Me too, but the Prosecution on the Arbery case seems to be pretty strong.  She got the son who shot Ahmad to admit Mr. Abery never attacked him or tried to take his gun.  He was actually trying to run away.  In my view, that makes it cold-blooded murder. I am devastated every time I see the video clip and see those 3 White Supremacist imbeciles sitting in court.


----------



## win231 (Nov 19, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> First of all, my having been a moderator here has nothing to do with this Rittenhouse murder trial, and by the way, I am objective.
> 
> There is no doubt that the others involved were scum, but Rittenhouse still should not have shown up there with a semi-automatic rifle strapped to his chest.  If he didn't arrive looking for action, he wouldn't have had to murder two people in self defense.
> 
> ...


Had Martin ignored Zimmerman & just continued walking instead of assaulting him, Martin would still be breathing today.
Zimmerman is stupid; just as Rittenhouse is stupid.  But being stupid is not a crime.  Attacking someone is.


----------



## drifter (Nov 19, 2021)

It is our way. The jury gets to decide. We may not agree but it is not our responsibility.
The jury has spoken.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Nov 19, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> Me too, but the Prosecution on the Arbery case seems to be pretty strong.  She got the son who shot Ahmad to admit Mr. Abery never attacked him or tried to take his gun.  He was actually trying to run away.  In my view, that makes it cold-blooded murder. I am devastated every time I see the video clip and see those 3 White Supremacist imbeciles sitting in court.


Couldn't agree more.  I hope justice is served for the killing of Mr. Arbery.  This case makes me sick, but we see things like this happen over and over again.  Racism is alive and well in America, and as far as we've come as a nation, that is heartbreaking.


----------



## dseag2 (Nov 19, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Couldn't agree more.  I hope justice is served for the killing of Mr. Arbery.  This case makes me sick, but we see things like this happen over and over again.  Racism is alive and well in America, and as far as we've come as a nation, that is heartbreaking.


I know I'm highjacking the thread, but the Elijah McClain case is the most heartbreaking I've ever seen.  He used to play music for animals in shelters to make them feel better.  He was a sensitive, autistic person.  The police were responsible for his death for absolutely no reason.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56134565


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## Ruthanne (Nov 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> Had Martin ignored Zimmerman & just continued walking instead of assaulting him, Martin would still be breathing today.
> Zimmerman is stupid; just as Rittenhouse is stupid.  But being stupid is not a crime.  Attacking someone is.


Yeah, attacking someone violently is very stupid--and you get what's coming to you when you do==I'm talking of the KR issue here.  I'm glad this teenager had the sense to be able to defend himself and some think he had no right to defend himself because he was there.  He did everything legal including defending himself.  I saw Kyle on tv and he seemed like a really likable person only out to defend himself.  

Everyone's got an opinion, though, that's for sure.  They have their right to it, too.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 20, 2021)

Nathan said:


> No doubt Rittenhouse's victim's / victim's family will pursue justice in civil court, in the absence of justice in today's verdict.




Rittenhouse will also almost certainly pursue media anti-defamation lawsuits.  Corporate media have deeper pockets -- just ask Nick Sandmann, whom CNN made $250 million richer.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Nov 20, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> I know I'm highjacking the thread, but the Elijah McClain case is the most heartbreaking I've ever seen.  He used to play music for animals in shelters to make them feel better.  He was a sensitive, autistic person.  The police were responsible for his death for absolutely no reason.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56134565





SeaBreeze said:


> First of all, my having been a moderator here has nothing to do with this Rittenhouse murder trial, and by the way, I am objective.
> 
> There is no doubt that the others involved were scum, but Rittenhouse still should not have shown up there with a semi-automatic rifle strapped to his chest.  If he didn't arrive looking for action, he wouldn't have had to murder two people in self defense.
> 
> ...



Your post is absurd.  Grosskreutz was carrying a Glock.  So by your logic "he shouldn't have shown up there with a semi-automatic" and "he was looking for action."  Which he was -- like the other idiots, he was there to burn and loot, or to help those involved in burning and looting.  

Had the cops done their jobs -- protecting businesses and property, and arresting rioters -- then bozos like Rittenhouse would have had no need to become "vigilantes."   And by the way, you can't "murder two people in self defense."  If it's self-defense, then it's not murder.  Hence the jury verdict.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Nov 20, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Your post is absurd.  Grosskreutz was carrying a Glock.  So by your logic "he shouldn't have shown up there with a semi-automatic" and "he was looking for action."  Which he was -- like the other idiots, he was there to burn and loot, or to help those involved in burning and looting.
> 
> Had the cops done their jobs -- protecting businesses and property, and arresting rioters -- then bozos like Rittenhouse would have had no need to become "vigilantes."   And by the way, you can't "murder two people in self defense."  If it's self-defense, then it's not murder.  Hence the jury verdict.


We don't need aggressive violent gun nutters shooting each other down (or innocent bystanders) in our streets.  We don't need vigilantes puffing themselves up, well no matter what guns they have, I'll show up with my bad a$$ semi-automatic.  That is insane! I'm sick of all the shootings and death in this country, whether by cops or citizens.

 Let the cops take care of anything that needs to be addressed, not these wannabe cops or Proud Boys.  None of the armed idiots should have been there including Rittenhouse.  There should have been nobody killed on that day.  If Rittenhouse showed up with a semi-auto strapped to his chest and his skin was brown, he'd be the one who was dead, the cops would have taken care on him immediately.  Way too many people dead due to gun nuts who want to take the law into their own hands.

  Rittenhouse went there looking for trouble so he could use his new toy, just like Mr. Arbery's killers hunted him down and shot him in cold blood.  I'm more concerned that justice is served in that case though because there was no excuse for the murderers, there was no self defense, they were hot to use their guns on a black American and another life has been lost due to it.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 20, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> I know I'm highjacking the thread, but the Elijah McClain case is the most heartbreaking I've ever seen.  He used to play music for animals in shelters to make them feel better.  He was a sensitive, autistic person.  The police were responsible for his death for absolutely no reason.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56134565


I feel the same way.  Another tragic loss of a precious life, may he rest peacefully, my heart and sympathy goes out to his family.


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## Paco Dennis (Nov 20, 2021)

In a society that glorifies violence , with television and movies that readily depict killing, rape, and war and the masculine strong man wins, or the fastest gun is a hero, and activist judges and lawmakers on both sides of the fence manipulating justice to fit their power agendas and stay in the money...it is no wonder that human well being is not on the table. There is no justice when the courts are crawling with millions of cases that are travesties for many people, especially if their actions are part of the judges bias.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 20, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> We don't need aggressive violent gun nutters shooting each other down (or innocent bystanders) in our streets.  We don't need vigilantes puffing themselves up, well no matter what guns they have, I'll show up with my bad a$$ semi-automatic.  That is insane! I'm sick of all the shootings and death in this country, whether by cops or citizens.
> 
> Let the cops take care of anything that needs to be addressed, not these wannabe cops or Proud Boys.  None of the armed idiots should have been there including Rittenhouse.  There should have been nobody killed on that day.  If Rittenhouse showed up with a semi-auto strapped to his chest and his skin was brown, he'd be the one who was dead, the cops would have taken care on him immediately.  Way too many people dead due to gun nuts who want to take the law into their own hands.
> 
> Rittenhouse went there looking for trouble so he could use his new toy, just like Mr. Arbery's killers hunted him down and shot him in cold blood.  I'm more concerned that justice is served in that case though because there was no excuse for the murderers, there was no self defense, they were hot to use their guns on a black American and another life has been lost due to it.




If you're saying there should have been no rioting that day, then I agree with you.   I would very much like to see justice served in the Arbery case, as well, and see no justification for the actions of the accused.


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## FastTrax (Nov 20, 2021)

PamfromTx said:


> God bless America.



Once I heard his last name I just presumed this was a White collar corruption case. Who knew? Anyway ditto for me. GOD Bless America.  The land of the brave. TTFN.


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## Irwin (Nov 20, 2021)

drifter said:


> It is our way. The jury gets to decide. We may not agree but it is not our responsibility.
> The jury has spoken.


The jury ruled according to the law, which was what they were required to do. The problem isn't the jury; the problem is the laws and that it's perfectly legal for any ordinary citizen, of any intelligence or moral standing as long as they don't have a criminal record, to walk around with an AR-15 strapped around their chest. And they're allowed to do that in a chaotic area to boot with the encouragement and enthusiastic support of the police!


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## FastTrax (Nov 20, 2021)

www.twitter.com/PPBAlerts/status/1461923076606554117

www.twitter.com/gravemorgan/status/1461922664377847813

www.twitter.com/search?q=%23KyleRittenhouse

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/19/kyle-rittenhouse-verdict-reaction-conservatives

www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/20613

www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/20766

www.portlandoregon.gov/police/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Police_Bureau





















Video of Kyle Rittenhouse shooting:


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## ohioboy (Nov 20, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Rittenhouse will also almost certainly pursue media anti-defamation lawsuits.  Corporate media have deeper pockets -- just ask Nick Sandmann, whom CNN made $250 million richer.


No way CNN agreed to pay him 250 million, no way. The settlement amount was not disclosed, but it is legally unrealistic for them to pay him 1/4 of a billion $'s.


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## Lewkat (Nov 20, 2021)

mrstime said:


> Agreed, he went there deliberately with a gun (that he was not legally allowed to have) looking for trouble. Wonder if he will get away with it the next time he kills someone.


Correction: he was legally allowed to have that weapon as was clarified by law during the trial.  Rather presumptuous of you to say he will kill again.  This is what is wrong with the world.


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## Lewkat (Nov 20, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Rittenhouse was the killer with the semi-auto.  Rittenhouse was the murderer.  Rittenhouse had no business being there but to start trouble and try out his new toy.  Rittenhouse caused the interaction which left two people dead.  Rittenhouse is a friend and follower of the Proud Boys, another violent mob of vigilantes who prey on those participating in BLM protests.


BLM protests have proven to be violent due to their methods.


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## Lewkat (Nov 20, 2021)

FastTrax said:


> View attachment 195343
> 
> 
> View attachment 195337
> ...


The savages are responding accordingly.  One day, someone will have the guts to do something about this.  Not protests, but outright rioting and thuggery.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 20, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> No way CNN agreed to pay him 250 million, no way. The settlement amount was not disclosed, but it is legally unrealistic for them to pay him 1/4 of a billion $'s.



You're right.  He sued for $275 million.  The settlement amount was not disclosed.


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## ohioboy (Nov 20, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> You're right.  He sued for $275 million.  The settlement amount was not disclosed.


He also sued the Washington Post for 50 million + 200 million in exemplary damages, that case was dismissed by the court.


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## mrstime (Nov 20, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> Correction: he was legally allowed to have that weapon as was clarified by law during the trial.  Rather presumptuous of you to say he will kill again.  This is what is wrong with the world.


You are saying it is legal for a 17 year old to own a gun?


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## Alligatorob (Nov 20, 2021)

mrstime said:


> You are saying it is legal for a 17 year old to own a gun?


Yes it is legal in most US states, perhaps not wise but legal.  Owning  and buying are different.


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## Lewkat (Nov 20, 2021)

mrstime said:


> You are saying it is legal for a 17 year old to own a gun?


In his case, during the trial it was established in that court room that according to the law it was legal for him to have that gun.  It is not what I am saying at all, it is the law stating this.


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## PamfromTx (Nov 20, 2021)

FastTrax said:


> Once I heard his last name I just presumed this was a White collar corruption case. Who knew? Anyway ditto for me. GOD Bless America.  The land of the brave. TTFN.


Ditto...


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 20, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> BLM protests have proven to be violent due to their methods.


BLM protests have also been proven to be violent due to other certain groups who travel to them from out of state.  You can refer to the groups involved in that peaceful protest viewed by the world on January 6, 2021.  I won't say any more or provide any links because it would violate the no politics rule on this forum.


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## Irwin (Nov 20, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> BLM protests have also been proven to be violent due to other certain groups who travel to them from out of state.  You can refer to the groups involved in that peaceful protest viewed by the world on January 6, 2021.  I won't say any more or provide any links because it would violate the no politics rule on this forum.


Those January 6th "protesters" were trying to subvert our Constitution and our democracy. The BLM protesters were trying to stop police brutality.


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## mrstime (Nov 20, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> In his case, during the trial it was established in that court room that according to the law it was legal for him to have that gun.  It is not what I am saying at all, it is the law stating this.


Now wonder the US has become a country that very few want to visit, when children can buy guns. Thank goodness we are Canadians!


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## dseag2 (Nov 20, 2021)

I'll have to disagree that the US isn't still a desirable country to visit for those from other countries, but we do have quite a few major issues we need to sort out.  The Kyle Rittenhouse situation put a spotlight on some of our laws that need to be amended. If I didn't watch the news I would be blissful but ignorant.  We do have a great quality of life here. 

Canada is a wonderful country without much of the rudeness and divisiveness we experience here in the US.  I've visited many times and look forward to doing so again in the near future!


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 20, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> I'll have to disagree that the US isn't still a desirable country to visit for those from other countries, but we do have quite a few major issues we need to sort out.  The Kyle Rittenhouse situation put a spotlight on some of our laws that need to be amended. If I didn't watch the news I would be blissful but ignorant.  We do have a great quality of life here.
> 
> Canada is a wonderful country without much of the rudeness and divisiveness we experience here in the US.  I've visited many times and look forward to doing so again in the near future!


I agree.  I have spent some time in Canada too, beautiful country, wildlife and nice people.  The US is still a desirable country to visit, we just have to rein in the gun nutters, too many shootings of late.  I'm not anti-gun, I'm anti-gun nutter.


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## Butterfly (Nov 21, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> All along they kept saying he was there to protect a business he worked at.  The others were there to do damage or riot & loot businesses.
> If I would have been in his shoes I would have done the exact same thing.    We need more people like Rittenhouse to stand up & take America back like it use to be.  Where there were NO riots or destructions.



Rittenhouse lied when he said he worked at that business.  He did not, as was testified to by people who DID work there.


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## Butterfly (Nov 21, 2021)

mrstime said:


> Now wonder the US has become a country that very few want to visit, when children can buy guns. Thank goodness we are Canadians!



Rittenhouse didn't buy that gun.  Somebody he knew bought it for him because he wasn't old enough to buy it for himself.


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## ronaldj (Nov 21, 2021)

I got this somewhere and find it interesting: facts not opinion


I have watched the whole Rittenhouse Trial.
I didn't know that Kyle put out a dumpster fire that was being rolled down to a gas station to blow up, with people all around.
I didn't know that the Police were told to stand down as businesses were destroyed.
I didn't know that Kyles Dad, Grandma and Friends all lived in Kenosha, 20 minutes from where he resided with his Mom part time in Illinois.
I didn't know that Joseph Rosenbaum knocked him down twice and then attempted to kick him with lethal force to the head. I didn't know that Huber had hit him in the head 2x with a skateboard.
I didn't know Gaige Grosskreutz, a felon in possession of firearm, aimed his gun at Kyle first, as he admitted on the stand.
I also didn't know that in the State of Wisconsin, it is legal for Kyle to have a gun, even at 17 (which was why the gun charge was dismissed).
I didn't know that Kyle did not cross state lines with a gun he wasn't supposed to have. The rightful gun owner did, as he was legally permitted to do.
I also didn't realize that Rosenbaum was a 5 time convicted child rapist and that Huber was a 2 time convicted woman beater. I didn't know that Grosskreutz was a convicted Burglar with an assault on his record also.
IF THE MEDIA DID THEIR JOB... EVERYONE would have known this!


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## oldpop (Nov 21, 2021)

This post is not directed at anyone. It is just my thoughts. There seems to be a lot if misinformation going around about the actions and trial of Mr. Rittenhouse.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion but misinformation can cause a lot of hate and discontent. Not to mention injury and death.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 21, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> The savages are responding accordingly.  One day, someone will have the guts to do something about this.  Not protests, but outright rioting and thuggery.





Irwin said:


> Those January 6th "protesters" were trying to subvert our Constitution and our democracy. The BLM protesters were trying to stop police brutality.



That's a great way to stop police brutality, by setting fires and looting stores.


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## ronaldj (Nov 21, 2021)

as far as a 17 year old owning guns. My grandchildren, both boy and girl have owned rifles since they were young. most years they bring a deer to the table, both boy and girl. twelve ten teach them respect of the weapon and others and there is no problem.


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## Sunny (Nov 21, 2021)

mrstime said:


> Now wonder the US has become a country that very few want to visit, when children can buy guns. Thank goodness we are Canadians!


 More US bashing, just what this "friendly" forum needs!

FWIW, when we lived in WA state, we once made a day trip to Vancouver, BC.  The traffic was horrible, drivers were as bad as anything I've seen in NY or Chicago, and we tried to get on a bus and ask the driver a question, and he snapped at us very rudely.  We were astonished, as none of this fit our previous perceptions of Canadians.

We never returned to Vancouver after that, though we did visit other parts of Canada often, and found the people very nice. (Most of the people in the US are very nice also).  Canada has its shootings also, BTW.  Just read the news. It's so easy to sling nasty generalizations around. None of them hold up when given a moment's thought.

I do agree with you that it's much too easy for children to get their hands on guns. But how about toning down the hatred of this country? In spite of having lots of room for improvement, most people find it a wonderful place to live, or visit.


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 21, 2021)

I was sad to hear Rittenhouse’s comments to Fox News after the verdict.

I hope someone takes him aside and encourages him to maintain a low profile and stay away from the press, no good can come of it in this situation.


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## Pepper (Nov 21, 2021)

You may have been sad @Aunt Bea, but were you surprised?


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## Don M. (Nov 21, 2021)

I wasn't in the courtroom during this trial, and I only got 'snippets" of what was going on....as reported by the various news outlets.  I assume the jurors considered the evidence they were given, and made their decisions accordingly.  I accept that.


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 21, 2021)

Pepper said:


> You may have been sad @Aunt Bea, but were you surprised?


The more I study the facts the more I believe that the jury made the right legal decision.

I’m still very concerned about the idea of someone taking a firearm to a protest with the intention of helping.  Very scary.

I think that Rittenhouse believed that carrying and brandishing a weapon would give him some sort of authority or respect through intimidation.

I also think it scared the crap out of him when he realized that it didn’t

IMO Rittenhouse doesn’t display the emotional maturity and stability to own or carry a firearm.


----------



## win231 (Nov 21, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Sounds like Aunt Marg has returned! More US bashing, just what this "friendly" forum needs!
> 
> FWIW, when we lived in WA state, we once made a day trip to Vancouver, BC.  The traffic was horrible, drivers were as bad as anything I've seen in NY or Chicago, and we tried to get on a bus and ask the driver a question, and he snapped at us very rudely.  We were astonished, as none of this fit our previous perceptions of Canadians.
> 
> ...


Well, it gives the _Mine's better 'n your_s crowd an opportunity to feel good about themselves; they have no other way to get that smug feeling.
Much like the vaccinated crowd putting down those who choose not to get vaccinated.
You know what I'm talkin' about.


----------



## Irwin (Nov 21, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I was sad to hear Rittenhouse’s comments to Fox News after the verdict.
> 
> I hope someone takes him aside and encourages him to maintain a low profile and stay away from the press, no good can come of it in this situation.


He might have a career at Fox News, so some good might come to him. He's a hero to their viewers.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Nov 21, 2021)

mrstime said:


> Now wonder the US has become a country that very few want to visit, when children can buy guns. Thank goodness we are Canadians!





Irwin said:


> He might have a career at Fox News, so some good might come to him. He's a hero to their viewers.



In the best light, he's a misguided dweeb with bad instincts and bad judgment.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Nov 21, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> The more I study the facts the more I believe that the jury made the right legal decision.
> 
> I’m still very concerned about the idea of someone taking a firearm to a protest with the intention of helping.  Very scary.
> 
> ...


Well said Aunt Bea, I agree.


----------



## Lewkat (Nov 21, 2021)

If you think no one wants to visit the U.S., I suggest taking a walk through Times Square in NYC, and day of the week throughout the entire year.  To say nothing of our many other lovely sights.


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## squatting dog (Nov 21, 2021)

Wonderful to see some of the media still fanning the flames.  
Some British media lied about Rittenhouse.
“Full story: Teenager who shot three black men with rifle found not guilty on all charges,” the Independent wrote on its front page Friday.
The British outlet then later quietly made a correction without an editor’s note apologizing for the "error".
Not just the British though...
The largest media outlets in Brazil this week had to retract their articles on the Rittenhouse case because they claimed it was a case of a white youth having shot and killed two black men. They got this from the US media, which deliberately cultivated this false narrative. 

Exhibit #39,887,215 for the truth of the old saying: “If you don’t read the newspaper, you are uninformed.


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## Irwin (Nov 21, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Wonderful to see some of the media still fanning the flames.
> Some British media lied about Rittenhouse.
> “Full story: Teenager who shot three black men with rifle found not guilty on all charges,” the Independent wrote on its front page Friday.
> The British outlet then later quietly made a correction without an editor’s note apologizing for the "error".
> ...


The Independent is owned by a Russian oligarch with partial ownership by a Saudi investor. Maybe people should choose their sources of information a little more carefully.


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## squatting dog (Nov 21, 2021)

Irwin said:


> The Independent is owned by a Russian oligarch with partial ownership by a Saudi investor. Maybe people should choose their sources of information a little more carefully.


Yeah, unfortunately most people don't do their homework, just blindly believe what they see in their favorite media. I'm still digging to see which US media fed the wrong info to Brazil. They do a good job of hiding that information.


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## dseag2 (Nov 21, 2021)

Sunny said:


> More US bashing, just what this "friendly" forum needs!
> 
> FWIW, when we lived in WA state, we once made a day trip to Vancouver, BC.  The traffic was horrible, drivers were as bad as anything I've seen in NY or Chicago, and we tried to get on a bus and ask the driver a question, and he snapped at us very rudely.  We were astonished, as none of this fit our previous perceptions of Canadians.
> 
> ...


Your comment was much more direct than mine, but thank you!  As I said, we personally have a great quality of life in the US.


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## win231 (Nov 21, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> The more I study the facts the more I believe that the jury made the right legal decision.
> 
> I’m still very concerned about the idea of someone taking a firearm to a protest with the intention of helping.  Very scary.
> 
> ...


He certainly did display stability.
Every bullet went exactly where it should have gone.


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## Ruthanne (Nov 22, 2021)

KR was sensible to take a gun to one of these protests  in the interest to help and to protect others and himself because we All know in 2020 and even now, too, these protests have been very violent and volitole. 

They were very scary!  In 2020 I was down the street from the violent protests and feared them coming up the street.  My family in other parts of the country were in fear, too.

KR used a good deal of sensibility.  We ALL know what was going on in our cities in 2020.


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## Butterfly (Nov 22, 2021)

ronaldj said:


> I got this somewhere and find it interesting: facts not opinion
> 
> 
> I have watched the whole Rittenhouse Trial.
> ...


Whether or not those who died were saints or sinners has no bearing whatsoever on Rittenhouse's guilt or lack thereof.  Under the constitution all are equal before the law, and being a bad guy doesn't put a target on a person's back.  Rittenhouse had no idea as to the identities or histories of the people he shot, anyway.


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## Della (Nov 22, 2021)

When I lived in England I would buy three or four newspapers every day (no TV, no internet) and I was always amazed at the number of comments (always negative) about Americans.  Often the pieces were blatantly invented by the "journalists.'  I remember a piece saying that Americans had sex right on the dance floor of night clubs and they quoted one American girl saying, "I shag any bloke I fancy."  Riiight.  That was the Times.


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## helenbacque (Nov 22, 2021)

Apparently his defense funding became political and garnered huge GoFundMe $$$$.  Money talks in most circumstances.  From the N. Y. Times ....

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/19/us/kyle-rittenhouse-political-fundraising.html

*"*Political fund-raisers are basing appeals to donors on the Rittenhouse trial. "​


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 22, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Whether or not those who died were saints or sinners has no bearing whatsoever on Rittenhouse's guilt or lack thereof.  Under the constitution all are equal before the law, and being a bad guy doesn't put a target on a person's back.  Rittenhouse had no idea as to the identities or histories of the people he shot, anyway.



It most certainly has a bearing on Rittenhouse's guilt or innocence.   If the jury hears that one of the people that Rittenhouse killed served 11 years for multiple ****** crimes against children, and that the other had been convicted of felony "strangulation" charges, it makes them more likely to believe that Rittenhouse was defending himself against violent assailants.  

I'm not in any way condoning Rittenhouse's actions.  I think there should be laws against people showing up at riots carrying semi-automatic rifles.  I'm just saying that jurors are swayed by lots of things, including the backgrounds of the people involved in the case.


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## HarryHawk (Nov 22, 2021)

IMHO, Interesting essay

https://amgreatness.com/2021/11/18/kyle-rittenhouse-is-america/


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## AnnieA (Nov 22, 2021)

> Aunt Bea said:
> 
> 
> > I was sad to hear Rittenhouse’s comments to Fox News after the verdict.
> ...





Pepper said:


> You may have been sad @Aunt Bea, but were you surprised?



I wasn't.   @Aunt Bea  He's been used as a pawn from the beginning and I don't get the impression that he's intelligent enough to understand that regardless of his age.  I doubt he'll listen if someone does encourage a low profile.


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## squatting dog (Nov 22, 2021)

So, how does everyone feel about the father, and 16 year old daughter combo who armed themselves with AR-15's to protect the protesters yesterday? If, God forbid, he or she had to shoot someone, would that still be considered self defense since some here claim you're only looking to kill if you bring a weapon to a protest?


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 22, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> So, how does everyone feel about the father, and 16 year old daughter combo who armed themselves with AR-15's to protect the protesters yesterday? If, God forbid, he or she had to shoot someone, would that still be considered self defense since some here claim you're only looking to kill if you bring a weapon to a protest?


Personally, I think it’s ignorant and immature just like it was ignorant and immature for the prosecutor to brandish a weapon in the courtroom.

Having said that, we have no way of knowing how many protesters are carrying concealed weapons legally or illegally.

I fear what may happen if this becomes a new trend on our streets.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 22, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> So, how does everyone feel about the father, and 16 year old daughter combo who armed themselves with AR-15's to protect the protesters yesterday? If, God forbid, he or she had to shoot someone, would that still be considered self defense since some here claim you're only looking to kill if you bring a weapon to a protest?



What would be really nice would be if peaceful protestors didn't carry weapons and no one but the police felt the need to "protect" them.  I would love to live in a country where people didn't bring weapons to protest marches.  I would take that a step further and say that laws should be in place that forbid carrying weapons at any such marches or demonstrations.


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## MrPants (Nov 22, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> What would be really nice would be if peaceful protestors didn't carry weapons and no one but the police felt the need to "protect" them.  I would love to live in a country where people didn't bring weapons to protest marches.  I would take that a step further and say that laws should be in place that forbid carrying weapons at any such marches or demonstrations.


Welcome to Canada


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 22, 2021)

MrPants said:


> Welcome to Canada



Canada is a nice country.  Is there anything you can do to make it more, well, interesting?


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 22, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Whether or not those who died were saints or sinners has no bearing whatsoever on Rittenhouse's guilt or lack thereof.  Under the constitution all are equal before the law, and being a bad guy doesn't put a target on a person's back.  Rittenhouse had no idea as to the identities or histories of the people he shot, anyway.


Good points Butterfly.


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## MrPants (Nov 22, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Canada is a nice country.  Is there anything you can do to make it more, well, interesting?


We're working on that


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 22, 2021)

MrPants said:


> We're working on that



I'm reminded of Orson Welles' famous speech in The Third Man...Switzerland! 500 years of peace and democracy and their contribution to civilization?  The cuckoo clock!

No knock on Canada, it really is an excellent country and I wish we would emulate some of your policies.


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## MrPants (Nov 22, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> I'm reminded of Orson Welles' famous speech in The Third Man...Switzerland! 500 years of peace and democracy and their contribution to civilization?  The cuckoo clock!
> 
> No knock on Canada, it really is an excellent country and I wish we would emulate some of your policies.


Pretty sure Canada holds the world record for Tiddlywinks


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 22, 2021)




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## ronaldj (Nov 22, 2021)

Canada that wonderful place where I was mugged and they stole my money on the way to the hotel.  next day I did enjoy the Phantom of the Opera, caught the train home and would never go back.


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## mrstime (Nov 22, 2021)

Sunny said:


> More US bashing, just what this "friendly" forum needs!
> 
> FWIW, when we lived in WA state, we once made a day trip to Vancouver, BC.  The traffic was horrible, drivers were as bad as anything I've seen in NY or Chicago, and we tried to get on a bus and ask the driver a question, and he snapped at us very rudely.  We were astonished, as none of this fit our previous perceptions of Canadians.
> 
> ...


But no one tried to shoot you. Yes we have had the odd shooting but not a daily event. I don't hate the US , I still have family there, but you have to admit it is too easy for crazies to get guns, and not just any guns but assault weapons that should only be available to the military, and the magazines  with enough shells to kill 30-50 people. Every time there is a mass shooting down there the news says they got the gun and ammo legally. I don't like the Vancouver area either, too many people and scary traffic. I don't know one person here that wants to visit the US because of how often there is a mass shooting down there. I do realize that people are pouring across the border right now but that will slow down.


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## win231 (Nov 22, 2021)

ronaldj said:


> Canada that wonderful place where I was mugged and they stole my money on the way to the hotel.  next day I did enjoy the Phantom of the Opera, caught the train home and would never go back.


Impossible!  Canada is crime free!   In fact, Canadian police have nothing to do all day, so they just eat donuts & drink coffee.  






TheGunBlog.ca — Canadian police have increased the use of SWAT teams by almost 2,100 percent since 1980 as the highly armed and trained units respond to routine calls, researchers said at The Conversation. They urged authorities to scale back deployments.


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## dseag2 (Nov 22, 2021)

Della said:


> When I lived in England I would buy three or four newspapers every day (no TV, no internet) and I was always amazed at the number of comments (always negative) about Americans.  Often the pieces were blatantly invented by the "journalists.'  I remember a piece saying that Americans had sex right on the dance floor of night clubs and they quoted one American girl saying, "I shag any bloke I fancy."  Riiight.  That was the Times.


You knew they were false because no American girl would ever say "shag".


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## Butterfly (Nov 22, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> *It most certainly has a bearing on Rittenhouse's guilt or innocence.   If the jury hears that one of the people that Rittenhouse killed served 11 years for multiple ****** crimes against children, and that the other had been convicted of felony "strangulation" charges, it makes them more likely to believe that Rittenhouse was defending himself against violent assailants. *
> 
> I'm not in any way condoning Rittenhouse's actions.  I think there should be laws against people showing up at riots carrying semi-automatic rifles.  I'm just saying that jurors are swayed by lots of things, including the backgrounds of the people involved in the case.



Which is exactly why that sort of information is generally inadmissible.  Anyway, whether or not it might sway the jury has no bearing on Rittenhouse's technical legal guilt under the actual law.  Really, really bad guy or nun, the law applies equally to them both, and to their killer.


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## win231 (Nov 23, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> You knew they were false because no American girl would ever say "shag".


I had to look up "Shag."  That makes two new words I learned today.


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## ohioboy (Nov 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> I had to look up "Shag."  That makes two new words I learned today.


Did you ever see the movie "Austin Powers, the spy who shagged me".


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## dseag2 (Nov 23, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Did you ever see the movie "Austin Powers, the spy who shagged me".


Absolutely!  One of the best movies ever.


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## win231 (Nov 23, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Did you ever see the movie "Austin Powers, the spy who shagged me".


I heard of that movie, but I thought it had something to do with wrapping him up in carpeting.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 23, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Which is exactly why that sort of information is generally inadmissible.  Anyway, whether or not it might sway the jury has no bearing on Rittenhouse's technical legal guilt under the actual law.  Really, really bad guy or nun, the law applies equally to them both, and to their killer.



Maybe you missed it.  They had the trial.  The jury found Rittenhouse innocent on all charges.  That's the way "the law" works.  Rittenhouse has no "technical legal guilt under the actual law".


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## itsjustme (Nov 24, 2021)

Haven't read the whole thread but anyone who believes Rittenhouse was guilty did not follow the trial or evidence. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/kyle-rittenhouse-didnt-illegally-bring-043226324.html

http://www.poletical.com/kyle-rittenhouse-verdict.php


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## fmdog44 (Nov 24, 2021)

I had a shag carpet long ago. It was groovy man.


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## Pepper (Nov 24, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Maybe you missed it.  They had the trial.  The jury found Rittenhouse innocent on all charges.  That's the way "the law" works.  Rittenhouse has no "technical legal guilt under the actual law".


He's not innocent.  He's not guilty.  Not innocent means the defendant committed no such act.  Not guilty means the prosecution couldn't meet the burden of proof required.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 24, 2021)

Pepper said:


> He's not innocent.  He's not guilty.  Not innocent means the defendant committed no such act.  Not guilty means the prosecution couldn't meet the burden of proof required.



Yes, your wording is correct.  He's not guilty.


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## oldpop (Nov 24, 2021)

Pepper said:


> He's not innocent.  He's not guilty.  Not innocent means the defendant committed no such act.  Not guilty means the prosecution couldn't meet the burden of proof required.


That is certainly one way to look at it...


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## Pepper (Nov 24, 2021)

oldpop said:


> That is certainly one way to look at it...


No.  Rittenhouse can't deny his participation in the acts as charged, so he's not innocent.  The jury found the prosecution did not prove his actions were unlawful, that the prosecution didn't meet it's legal burden of proving beyond reasonable doubt.  This is written in our laws, so NO, oldpop, there is only One Way here, and One Fact.  You of course are welcome to your own opinion, but you can't write new laws.  So, let's get our facts straight while we take opinions as they come.


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## dseag2 (Nov 25, 2021)

win231 said:


> I had to look up "Shag."  That makes two new words I learned today.


I know "tiara" was the third.  What was the first?


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## ohioboy (Dec 7, 2021)

Just read on the net where a Mother in GA who criticized Rittenhouse's parents for bringing him up wrong was killed by her own son! Hmm.


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