# Religion versus the pandemic



## grahamg (Mar 28, 2020)

I tried to tell a friend of mine recently about a sermon I'd heard in church that day, only to get the immediate response I should ask the vicar: "Why hasn't God prevented this virus"?

I was a bit thrown, and tried to defend the very devout and dedicated minister, but did not think quick enough and tell him the sermon was in part about man/mankind challenging God in many ways, (there was a story about a Bishop of Paris who rallied against God as a young man, then changed his views).

However, you seek "easy answers" dont you, when you seek to blame others, even God, for whatever you feel might be wrong with your life, or life in general, and it is the behaviour of a spoilt child isn't it .

Below is a link to a website discussing the matter in more detail, but anyone following many of my posts on this forum over the years will know the way I try to expose or rally against the problems the over pursuit of self interests causes, (or the mantra of the "best interests of the child"). The world will change a great deal before this coronavirus pandemic is over, and whether it will ultimately be for the better or not, is yet to be seen, (whatever you think "better" might be, or believe such concepts as good or bad are prosaic?).

markambrose.org/are-you-a-spoiled-christian/

Quote:
"Do You Complain, Grumble or Take God’s Grace for Granted?

In 1 Corinthians 10 the Apostle Paul confronts the Corinthian Christians in their spoiled attitude and behavior."


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## grahamg (Mar 29, 2020)

I thought the thread worthy of a bump up the list, and found a New York Times article loosely connected to it to justify the post:

Quote:
"Today the threat comes from a virus that makes no distinction between believers and atheists, but the fundamental tension between religion and secular authorities is still there. In Italy, a traditionally Catholic country where only about 20 percent of the population attend weekly Mass, churches are being treated as providers of nonessential services, like movie theaters and concert halls. That has sparked intense reactions among some Catholics, who see the celebrations as particularly essential at a time when an invisible and pervasive menace strikes not just bodies but also souls, spreading panic and eroding social trust."

Break

"The tension between physical health and spiritual comfort is in some ways an irreconcilable one — a dilemma in which acting to protect an indisputable value inevitably generates some sort of interior starvation. Nonetheless, there’s something sad about how this time around, the tension has barely been treated as something real, to be genuinely grappled with.

When the religious needs of practicing people aren’t met, they tend to look for other ways to fulfill them. For some Catholics in Italy’s north, that means gathering for clandestine Masses at priests’ houses and other private places, potentially smaller and more crowded than a church. News about impromptu, unauthorized services is widely circulating on WhatsApp and other social media. Worshipers in the most northern provinces were until recently crossing the border with Switzerland to go to Mass, before the government severely restricted travel. In a small village near Pavia, southwest of Milan, an 88-year-old priest was reported to the police because he celebrated Sunday Mass in the local church. Eight parishioners were in attendance. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/opinion/coronavirus-church-religion.html


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## Judycat (Mar 29, 2020)

Here is a call for the endurance of the saints...Rev. 14-12


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## grahamg (Mar 29, 2020)

Judycat said:


> Here is a call for the endurance of the saints...Rev. 14-12



I was contacted by my church yesterday, or a major stalwart of the church who is ordained and still takes some services, although she mostly retired now. It was a very nice jesture, and she hopes to send me a link to a video service they've recorded, (I do feel I'm assessed by my church as being "vulnerable", as of course we all are to some extent).


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## Warrigal (Mar 30, 2020)

> Why hasn't God prevented this virus ?



This is not a question that requires an answer. It is asked as a sort of trap to shake your faith.
We could ask ourselves a million questions along the same lines - Why does God allow tigers, blow flies, bush fires, floods, shipwrecks, tooth ache etc. There are no answers that will satisfy the questioner.

Better to boomerang the question by asking what the earth would be like if there were no diseases and people never got ill. Then suggest he read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World.

For the person of faith, try reading the whole book of Job. It is a theological debate about the reason/causes of suffering and I find God's answer to Job's anguished question to be as good an answer as any.

For the person of reason, remind them that there are not diseases on the Moon but that also there is no life on the Moon. For the Earth to support our lives, it must necessarily support other life forms that compete with and predate on us. We are hosts to all sorts of micro-organisms that inhabit our bodies and which assist us in bodily processes. Like the blow fly, Covid19 probably has some purpose but not one that we fully understand and not one that we like very much.


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## Rosemarie (Mar 30, 2020)

Will mankind ever mature and think like adults and not children? A small child blames its mother when something bad happens, because she is the focal point of its existence and it holds her responsible for everything. As the child grows and starts to see the world from a different perspective, it realises that in fact, she has little control over what happens.
The same thinking should apply to 'God'. Belief in a God is at the centre of our spiritual being, NOT our physical being. 'God' is not responsible for events which take place on the Earth. 
When are people going to accept that?


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## chic (Mar 30, 2020)

^ Yes, but God is not your mom who is mortal and would stop something bad from happening to you if she could. It's not a trap, but a valid question people have concerning the nature of God. If God allows this, is there any point in praying for it to be over quickly and not harm your loved ones etc. etc.

This is what shakes people's ability to even believe in God. Some things just make no sense.


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## grahamg (Mar 30, 2020)

Chic wrote:
_"^ Yes, but God is not your mom who is mortal and would stop something bad from happening to you if she could. It's not a trap, but a valid question people have concerning the nature of God. If God allows this, is there any point in praying for it to be over quickly and not harm your loved ones etc. etc.

This is what shakes people's ability to even believe in God. Some things just make no sense."_

Grahamg's response: 

A famous man used to make a comment about men going to the gallows, and how it "focused the mind wonderfully", (Samuel Johnson I think?).

When each of us comes to "meet our maker", or else "face oblivion", I wonder what truth might be in our minds, and what we will each think of ourselves and our contributions in this world, to make it better/worse, or at least "do no one any harm" perhaps?

Threats such as war, are said to make people look for answers outside themselves, and just maybe this virus wont result in yet more people rejecting any notion of God(?).


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## Sunny (Mar 30, 2020)

This may sound odd, coming from me, a nonbeliever.  But I don't see why that fact that bad things happen (from our point of view) prove anything one way or another about God. For those who believe in an all-powerful deity controlling the universe, bad things can happen under the protection, approval, or complete noninterest of God.  Who says that what is good for us humans is necessarily what God "wants" to happen?  I think the Biblical story of Job provides as good an answer as any.

By the same token, I've never understood why people thank God for the "miracle" of saving them or their loved ones from some disaster, but they don't blame God when the disaster hits them.  The fact is, we are really pretty helpless, and we basically know nothing about the truth of why things happen.
Maybe it's time for us humans to stop reacting to "God" as if we were little kids with a loving but stern father. All that does is turn God into another human.  It's all much more mysterious and unknowable than that.


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## Don M. (Mar 30, 2020)

Religion, IMO, is a deeply personal thing....between an individual and his/her chosen deity.  IMO, the Most important "lesson" is the saying "God helps those who help themselves".  Organized religion, throughout human history, has been a primary method of gaining power over the lives of people.  In many of today's "churches", the most important event is the Passing of the Collection Plate.


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## Keesha (Mar 30, 2020)

Deleted


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## fmdog44 (Mar 30, 2020)

It is a small part of life like earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados, floods, fires, sickness and death, etc. Dwell on the good parts of living and work through the bad things.


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