# Ron's ex has escalated.  Any advice?



## Ronni (Nov 3, 2020)

I've posted here before about Julie, Ron's ex.  She's manipulative and controlling, and has up till now maintained and propagated her fantasy that in spite of their divorce, she and Ron and the kids and grandkids are still one big happy family, and that I, and her husband are adjuncts to it. She's said this very same thing to me on more than one occasion.   She "welcomed" me into "their family," when Ron and I became engaged. She kept making overtures of friendship in the beginning, wanting to engage me in friendly chats about "our man" (Ron)  I wouldn't oblige her.

Her confrontational, aggressive manner began escalating the closer we got to the wedding.  She was unhappy that she wasn't invited, attempted by several means to manipulate her way into being around for the wedding (having her daughter ask us, and then calling me, wanting to just "drop by" on the day of our wedding so her husband could see the newest grand baby...a transparent excuse.)  Uh....no.  The day after the wedding, two days before we were leaving on our honeymoon, she called Ron and demanded to have returned to her a sketch she drew of their oldest daughter when she was a baby.  Ron has had it and treasured it for many years, and I had it framed for him as an engagement present.  Ron was angry at the request, angry that she'd try to get into a fight with him about it, and told her he'd deal with it when we returned from our honeymoon.  She was furious.

The first day of our honeymoon, she began barraging us with texts, over and over about the picture.  We just ignored her.  The next day she sent another text:
"Hey Sheri (Ron's daughter) couldn't find the picture.  Did you hide it?"  She sent Sheri into the house (she has access to the house to take care of her turtles which she still hasn't moved over to her new place yet) to get the picture!!! We ignored that one too.

The next day while we're back on the road, she sends a series of group texts to us:
"Well that pic of Krystal isn't up on your wall.  Just saw FaceTime from Sheri to prove it. So FYI, I don't have it."
"We don't know where it's at. Why does this have to be so much drama to get something back I made.
"Don't know what you guys did with it but it's my picture that i made of my daughter with my own two hands n heart."
"I'm really upset about the picture, it's nowhere to be found, it's just ****ing gone."
"I don't want anything to do with you guys anymore.  it's ****ed up"

She sent someone into our home to VIDEO EVERY ROOM so that she could see that the picture wasn't there! While we were on honeymoon.  WTF?????? Into our own personal private space!!! Uh....BOUNDARIES????? (The picture btw is where it always was.  We didn't do anything with it.  My daughter came to the house to get mail and water the plants etc., while we were on honeymoon, and saw it sitting right where it's always been.)

We were driving when the texts came in.  Ron was so furious when I read them to him that he had to pull over. He wanted to call her and have it out with her.  I told him no, let's not play her game and spoil our honeymoon.  So we blocked her on both our phones and he called Sheri and told her to tell her mother that she (Sheri) was forbidden to enter the house unless we were there.

There was blessed silence after that....until yesterday, when Ron answered his phone, thinking it was a work call, to discover that Julie was calling him from another number, to harass him once again about the picture.  No hello, no nothing. Just “Hey, did you block me on your phone?” Said with major attitude. Ron said, yeah, I did, and I can’t talk to you right now. Click.  His phone rang and rang after that, and he just didn't bother.  Then last night, he noticed he had voice mails.  He suspected Julie, and he was right.  She was harassing him again, cussing me out, calling me every name, saying I'd destroyed her family, ranting and raving, message after message.

He's blocked that number too.  Eventually she'll run out of phones to use lol!!  Our marriage obviously triggered something for her.  Her oldest daughter Krystal asked us if there was an issue, because apparently Julie called her too.  Krystal was disgusted with her Mother's behavior, surmised that her Mom was jealous that her Dad was happy and had a good healthy relationship etc. while her Mom's relationship is rocky.

She's unstable.  She's a nut case as far as I'm concerned.  I guess we've blown apart her fantasy that we're all one big happy family and she doesn't like that. Her comments about me are vicious.  We're continuing to block her, and will for as long as possible.  As far as I'm concerned, I won't be talking to her again, but realistically, Ron may need to if anything serious with the kids or grands come up.  But other than that, he's so relieved to finally have her essentially out of his life for the most part.

I've dealt with nut cases before, by maintaining very firm boundaries and distancing myself from them.  Same as I'm doing with Julie right now.  The difference here though is that it may become necessary for Ron to deal with her from time to time.

Any additional advice?


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 3, 2020)

My only advice would be to stay out of it.

Good luck to all of you.


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## peramangkelder (Nov 3, 2020)

@Ronni if Ron has to deal with Julie then you be there with him as support


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## Pepper (Nov 3, 2020)

Could you make a good photo copy of her drawing and send either that or the original to her?  When my sister & I split up photos, we each photo copied what we had chosen to give to the other so we both had one hundred percent.


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## Ronni (Nov 3, 2020)

peramangkelder said:


> @Ronni if Ron has to deal with Julie then you be there with him as support


Agreed.  He's always been completely transparent about Julie, if she calls he immediately puts it on speaker, etc., and really values my support of him when things get rough with her, as they've done off and on ever since I've known him.   She seems to be cyclic in her ups and downs, but the downs have been getting more and more aggressive the closer we've gotten to the wedding.  I'll continue to support him like I always have.


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## bowmore (Nov 3, 2020)

I feel sorry for you and your wife. I ended up making a police report about my ex and her mother. az visit to the District Attorney's office solved our problem. BUT, this was in 1975, long before smartphones, Facebook, etc.
The only advice I can give is try not to upset you and ignore her. It is very difficult to do when children are involved and she is manipulating them.
When my sons reached adulthood, they finally realized what a whack job my ex was.


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## Ronni (Nov 3, 2020)

@bowmore just so you’re clear on the cast of characters here  ....I’m the wife, Ron is my husband. Julie is his ex.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 3, 2020)

Well, this is what life is like with mother’s in laws, children, and ex wives and ex mothers in laws.  My daughters husband ex wife was hellish and it didn’t end until my daughters three step sons graduated from high school even though the ex wife had remarried.

I agree.  Just stay out of it and let him handle his and you handle yours.  The one big happy blended family situation usually only works on tv.  As the daughter of a man who married, at least 7 times, and has, at least, 9 half siblings I am aware of the challenges.  

Though I was lucky because dad was always hiding from process servicers and the law.


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## Becky1951 (Nov 3, 2020)

Her whole basis for her current fit she's throwing is the sketch, I agree with Pepper, make a copy.

Give her the original then she has lost her reason to argue and demand it.

Make it clear to her that her own actions over the sketch has prompted yours and Ron's desire of having no future contact with her.


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## Pinky (Nov 3, 2020)

@Ronni .. I know exactly what you're going through, and also know that it's a difficult thing to have to endure. Some exes are very manipulative, dragging their children along on their vendettas. Ron may have to go through legal means to stop her harassment. The children should not have to become involved with her bitterness.


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## needshave (Nov 3, 2020)

Can you file reports with the police department so that there is a defined and reported paper trail and if it continues ask for a no-contact (meaning both physical and telecommunication) restraining order? That would be signed by a judge that prevents that individual from engaging in problematic behavior with you, you're husband or both. Best wishes..


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## MarciKS (Nov 3, 2020)

What she's doing is considered stalking. I agree with the other post. I would at least report the incidents each time for the record. That way if she continues to escalate you both have legal recourse to put a stop to it.


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## Oldguy (Nov 3, 2020)

Change the locks, put the turtles outside, call her to pick up the turtles before the vultures get them.  The picture has nothing to do with her stupidity.  Give it to her and she will just come up with something else to be stupid about.


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## Pinky (Nov 3, 2020)

Oldguy said:


> Change the locks, put the turtles outside, call her to pick up the turtles before the vultures get them.  The picture has nothing to do with her stupidity.  Give it to her and she will just come up with something else to be stupid about.


Exactly. It will never end.

It is very wicked of her to manipulate adult children - but, this is how many ex's operate.


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## Ronni (Nov 3, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> Her whole basis for her current fit she's throwing is the sketch, I agree with Pepper, make a copy.
> 
> Give her the original then she has lost her reason to argue and demand it.
> 
> Make it clear to her that her own actions over the sketch has prompted yours and Ron's desire of having no future contact with her.


Julie gave the sketch to her daughter Krystal years ago. Krystal is the subject of the sketch from when she was a baby. Ron’s girls have always lived with him and the sketch was always on Krystal’s wall. She knew how much her Dad loved the piece, and when she moved out she gave it to him as a gift and he’s had it ever since.

Julie maintains that it’s still hers. She’s rewriting history as to how it came into Ron’s possession, said it was never Krystal’s to give away. Ron won’t be giving her the sketch back but is more than willing to make a copy of it for Julie.

@Becky1951 Julie hasn’t ever taken responsibility for her own actions since I’ve known her, so it won’t ever be clear to her that something SHE did has resulted in us blocking her or wishing no further contact. Nothing is ever her fault.


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## Ronni (Nov 3, 2020)

Oldguy said:


> The picture has nothing to do with her stupidity.  Give it to her and she will just come up with something else to be stupid about.


Exactly this!!!  It’s always something, Some thing she’s upset about, some mean way someone has treated her, some inequity in her life that somehow Ron or her girls or me are responsible for.

Before she escalated as badly as she did as a result of the wedding, she insisted that Ron was to blame for Julie and her husband dealing with hard times financially, because her husband’s work was cut back, and Ron wouldn’t hire him as a part-time helper in his business. Of course their financial hardship had NOTHING to do with the fact that her hubs wasn’t out there hustling for work but spent the time in his shop building things that “were sure to sell”


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## RadishRose (Nov 3, 2020)

Ignore her.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 3, 2020)

IMO, if you report her to the police or get a restraining order things will get much worst.  I won’t go into great detail, but I had a restraining order once.  Didn’t restrain anyone.  Then went to court, twice, after the order was issued, when a couple of foster children could not accept moving from my home.  Judge ordered them and the social services department to stop bothering me.

Social services did.  Took years before the children did.  Then heard from two of them last year asking where I lived.  Yeah, like I’m giving out that information-not.  Anyway, it’s your decision.


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## JustBonee (Nov 3, 2020)

Oldguy said:


> Change the locks, put the turtles outside, call her to pick up the turtles before the vultures get them.  The picture has nothing to do with her stupidity.  Give it to her and she will just come up with something else to be stupid about.



Exactly!    Like others said,  make copy of the picture for her,    and see if that silences her.   I doubt it.


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## StarSong (Nov 3, 2020)

The more oxygen she gets the more viciously her fire will burn.  I agree with Old Guy somewhat about the turtles.  

If it were me, I'd have Ron wander over to Sheri's when she's sure to be home, and bring the turtles, turtle food, turtle tank, and all turtle paraphernalia, with the saga that they seem to have been missing her and her children. Problem solved. 

Change the locks on your doors, don't give a key to anyone who has been proven untrustworthy with one, and install some security cameras.

Ron might also mention to Sheri that if she continues to step over the line she'll need to find someplace to live other than on his property.


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## Jules (Nov 3, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Change the locks on your doors, don't give a key to anyone who has been proven untrustworthy with one, and install some security cameras.


Make them electronic with unique key codes for each approved person.  There are fancy ones so you can see who used the codes, reset them remotely, etc.  Security cameras inside & out, absolutely.  

Both of you should keep a copy of all harassing phone calls & messages.  

It doesn’t seem to me that you’re trying to solve the problem, just being supportive and asking us for advice for Ron.


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## win231 (Nov 3, 2020)

needshave said:


> Can you file reports with the police department so that there is a defined and reported paper trail and if it continues ask for a no-contact (meaning both physical and telecommunication) restraining order? That would be signed by a judge that prevents that individual from engaging in problematic behavior with you, you're husband or both. Best wishes..


^^^^ Bingo.  I was waiting to read an intelligent post.  Another reason for the restraining order:  There has to be a legal record established BEFORE she does something worse than simple harassment.  That gives you some protection if she escalates - which is likely.
I went through the same thing when I dated a woman years ago.  Her ex harassed & threatened me for weeks - including threatening to kill me, until I took out a restraining order. After he was served & had to hire a lawyer & appear in court, he again phoned me & sarcastically asked, "Do you really think that restraining order will protect you?"
I replied, "No.  That's not the purpose.  The purpose is to establish a legal record that you're a nutcase, so if you force me to defend myself, there will be evidence of your conduct that may prevent me from being convicted of manslaughter.  And, since you've threatened to kill me, and it is now a legal record, coming within 100 yards of me would be a fatal mistake for you."


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> ^^^^ Bingo.  I was waiting to read an intelligent post.  Another reason for the restraining order:  There has to be a legal record established BEFORE she does something worse than simple harassment.  That gives you some protection if she escalates - which is likely.
> I went through the same thing when I dated a woman years ago.  Her ex harassed & threatened me for weeks - including threatening to kill me, until I took out a restraining order. After he was served & had to hire a lawyer & appear in court, he again phoned me & sarcastically asked, "Do you really think that restraining order will protect you?"
> I replied, "No.  That's not the purpose.  The purpose is to establish a legal record that you're a nutcase, so if you force me to defend myself, there will be evidence of your conduct that may prevent me from being convicted of manslaughter.  And, since you've threatened to kill me, and it is now a legal record, coming within 100 yards of me would be a fatal mistake for you."


I will remind you of countless women who have restraining orders to prevent their ex husband from hurting or killing them, and they were still beaten and many are dead.  I disagree doing this completely.  

The restraining order I had was not for me but one of my children.  Twenty years later, there are still safeguards in place to protect him.  Jealous is horrific.


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## win231 (Nov 3, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I will remind you of countless women who have restraining orders to prevent their ex husband from hurting or killing them, and they were still beaten and many are dead.  I disagree doing this completely.
> 
> The restraining order I had was not for me but one of my children.  Twenty years later, there are still safeguards in place to protect him.  Jealous is horrific.


Exactly the point.  Many women are found murdered at the hands of their ex's - with the restraining order documents near their body.
A pile of papers can't offer any physical protection; only legal protection if someone_ protects themselves._


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## WhatInThe (Nov 3, 2020)

Seems like she's looking for excuses to stay in his life as much as possible. Her current 'business' with Ron is find the sketch. Next week it will be a graduation picture or something. It all seems like an excuse to stay in his life. She has not moved on obviously.


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## AnnieA (Nov 3, 2020)

Decide what you're going to do about the current issues, then no more.  People like her forever move the lines once they get one demand met.  Good book to read is The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker.  Not that I think she sounds like a physical danger, but he discusses people who don't respect boundaries, dangerous or not.


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## Kadee (Nov 3, 2020)

I know where your coming from Ronni  I had the same thing for close to 30 years ...the ex always phoning / contacting / demanding something ...the last resort was a call from her to say her alcoholic prescription drug Addict partner had died She never had hubs mobile number so I disconnected the home phone .,.when I’d answer the phone she’d say I WANT to talk to Ron ..,no please thank you ..demand to speak to him about something about the adult kids that were about 36 and 40 at  the time.

I never had any discussions with her I left it up to hubby but he always listened to her and did what she asked to keep the peace the last thing was his daughter wanted the old deli milkshake maker
I used often ...,but it was claimed it was the daughters to use NOT  MINE

So believe me it will never stop ....yep remove the turtles and anything that belongs to the Girls ..but she will find new ammunition to fire year in year out ...


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## Pepper (Nov 3, 2020)

@Kadee46
Just an aside:
"demand to speak to him about something about the adult kids that were about 36 and 40 at the time"
Your children are your children forever.  Their age has nothing to do with it.  IMO


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## applecruncher (Nov 3, 2020)

@Ronni

Your first post here is a manuscript. And I recall other threads about this ex- wife problem.

Julie is very clever and successful. She knew how to disrupt your honeymoon. She knows how to harass both you & Ron - and both of you continue to allow it.

So...Ron was furious. So Ron puts the phone on speaker. Woohoo. 

Video the inside of YOUR home?!? Whoever gave access should be permanently banned. 

Ron needs to text or email Julie and tell her no more communication in any form unless it's a true emergency... AND if she continues the harassment both he & you will take legal action. PERIOD. No more discussion.

Or, continue to put up with it.

The choice is his & yours.


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## Kadee (Nov 3, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @Kadee46
> Just an aside:
> "demand to speak to him about something about the adult kids that were about 36 and 40 at the time"
> Your children are your children forever.  Their age has nothing to do with it.  IMO


I 100% agree @Pepper however I was NEVER rude to her and I expected a little respect when answering the phone in MY / Our HOME


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## Shalimar (Nov 3, 2020)

Lots of great ideas posted here. I don’t think the OP is dodging the issue, but rather exploring  various options in order to minimise the situation rather than feed the drama. 
Of course, should situation escalate, then strong measures need to be set in place.


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## Ronni (Nov 3, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Lots of great ideas posted here. I don’t think the OP is dodging the issue, but rather exploring  various options in order to minimise the situation rather than feed the drama.
> Of course, should situation escalate, then strong measures need to be set in place.


Thanks @Shalimar that's exactly what I'm doing.  

I'm documenting everything she's sent, in text and audio files.  I'm making notes.  Nothing remains in our house that the kids needs to come in here to get...turtles are gone, for those of you who suggested that!  

We have both distanced ourselves from her, blocked her, etc.  She's called Ron from two or three different numbers now in an attempt to get to him, and her last couple voicemails from those numbers have been vicious, rude, combative, accusative, and demanding.  We have no interest in feeding the drama, involving the kids, or engaging with her, which is exactly what she wants.  I've had enough experience with my ex to understand the mechanisms at play.  

We're not yet ready to turn to legal means.  It's a touchy area.  Ron doesn't want to alienate his kids, and I understand that completely, and there is the potential for that happening with a restraining order or order of protection etc.  So we're taking other measures. We're very aware of the need to protect ourselves.  We're changing the door code (we have a keyless entry system) and we already have security cameras installed.  That, and documenting everything, is what we're doing right now.  I have a couple friends in law enforcement and I'm going to talk to them unofficially to see if there's anything they can suggest.


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## Ronni (Nov 3, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> @Ronni
> 
> Your first post here is a manuscript. And I recall other threads about this ex- wife problem.
> 
> ...



This stings a bit.  

We're NOT continuing to put up with it, that's the entire POINT. She's blocked.  We're not engaging. We have zero control about what measures SHE takes to continue to reach Ron by the devious means she's employed.  

 I don't know what you find unappealing about Ron putting the phone on speaker or why you would want to focus on that as some kind of an issue.  

His kids will be impacted with whatever steps we take.  He is sensitive to that, and I don't blame him in the least.  He's trying to walk a  line that protects his and my privacy and boundaries while at the same time not taking such extreme measures that his kids are impacted negatively.  It's not an easy situation to navigate and my "manuscript" is an effort to provide enough information for you all to offer some informed advice.  If it's too much for you to read, that's totally fine.  Move on.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 3, 2020)

I am just glad you are not going the legal route.


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## RadishRose (Nov 3, 2020)

@Ronni, whatever happens may or may not impact his kids negatively due to their MOTHERS behavior. Not because of their father. They're grown adults and they know how their mother is.

I think if you both continue to ignore her, eventually she'll burn out.

I wish you and Ron an easy time of it; go and enjoy your lives and each other.


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## win231 (Nov 3, 2020)

RadishRose said:


> Ignore her.


That's what this couple did:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Broderick


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## applecruncher (Nov 3, 2020)

Ronni said:


> This stings a bit.




I meant for it to. 
(By now you should know I'm a straight-shooter.)

I'm not gonna upset you further.  We'll just say we disagree.


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## Ronni (Nov 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> That's what this couple did:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Broderick


Jesus.


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## win231 (Nov 3, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> I meant for it to.
> (By now you should know I'm a straight-shooter.)
> 
> I'm not gonna upset you further.  We'll just say we disagree.


Nothing wrong with being a straight shooter.
A lot wrong with blaming victims.


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## applecruncher (Nov 3, 2020)

@win231 

Betty Broderick wasn't ignored. Multiple restraining orders, arrests, financial punishment.

And Julie wasn't scorned.


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## win231 (Nov 3, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> @win231
> 
> Betty Broderick wasn't ignored. Multiple restraining orders, arrests, financial punishment.
> 
> And Julie wasn't scorned.


A woman does not have to actually _be_ scorned to _feel_ scorned.  People often base their actions on how they _feel_; not how they _should_ feel.
Women whose husbands re-marry after a divorce often say, "He left me for another woman," when the truth is closer to, "Our marriage fell apart, we divorced, & he moved on & re-married."


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## applecruncher (Nov 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> we divorced, & he moved on & re-married."



Julie (Ron's ex) remarried quite some time ago. @Ronni correct me if I'm mistaken.


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## Autumn (Nov 3, 2020)

My husband's ex ingratiated herself with his family, and since she controlled access to the grandkids, she was invited to every family gathering.  She disrespected me in his presence exactly once.  I don't know what he said to her, but it never happened again.  He made it clear to his family that if she persisted, he'd simply stop attending family functions.  If someone tried to stir things up by telling him things she said behind our backs, his response was, "OK".  He wouldn't be provoked, he wouldn't engage.  She tried to friend me once on FB and he told me to simply ignore it.  He said don't give her the satisfaction of making you block her, just don't engage at all

I certainly didn't want to separate him from his family. I had no idea what to do.   But he took charge, he said   it was his ex, his family and his responsibility.  The whole thing made me love and respect him even more.


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 4, 2020)

Trying to lighten up the conversation some... I just made a call to Jackie Gleeson.

POW, right to the moon!


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## Ronni (Nov 4, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> @win231
> 
> Betty Broderick wasn't ignored. Multiple restraining orders, arrests, financial punishment.
> 
> And Julie wasn't scorned.


She's the one who filed for divorce after taking off for California with the girls when they were younger.  They begged their Dad to come get them, and he did, and he raised them after that till they moved out as adults.



> Julie (Ron's ex) remarried quite some time ago. @Ronni correct me if I'm mistaken.



5ish years ago I believe.  They separated a couple times when the girls were young, but Ron pushed for reconciliation because he wanted to keep the family intact. But she eventually took off for Cal and had a variety of boyfriends over the years before she and her husband Chris got together.  Ron spent his time raising the girls, and though he dated a bit, there was no one serious and no one he introduced the girls to till me.

And honestly, I think that him being single all that time contributed to Julie's fantasy that they were still a nuclear family, with Chris and I as adjuncts to it.  He would agree to attend gatherings for birthdays, christmas etc., so that Julie could see the girls, and then when they were older he continued to go to the same things at Julie's invitation because he had nothing better to do.  Once I came along, I was included, but I was never entirely comfortable because the first time I attended something Julie welcomed me to THEIR family.    It felt weird, the vibe was weird.  I'm not the jealous sort, it wasn't jealousy.  But Julie seemed very proprietary about Ron, and insisted on "educating" me about who he was, the kind of person he was, his likes and dislikes etc.  Like I said...weird.  I finally told her straight up that I wasn't comfortable discussing him and that I didn't think it was appropriate.  She didn't like that.


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## StarSong (Nov 4, 2020)

@Ronni, given that Ron's children are all well into adulthood, why would he need to discuss his children and grandchildren with his ex?  Can his children not reach out themselves?  If there's an emergency wouldn't one of the other siblings, a spouse or child get in touch with him?  

Seems to me Julie is toxic rather than supportive when it comes to Ron and his relationship with his children, not to mention his relationship with you.


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## Pinky (Nov 4, 2020)

It seems as though the adult children need to be strong enough to not allow themselves to be manipulated by their mother. This seems all too common after divorce. I truly feel for both you and Ron. I went through this with my Aussie ex and his adult children. Unfortunately, he was too cowed by his ex-wife to stand up to her. Ron has my respect. It can't be easy for him.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 4, 2020)

win231 said:


> A woman does not have to actually _be_ scorned to _feel_ scorned.  People often base their actions on how they _feel_; not how they _should_ feel.
> Women whose husbands re-marry after a divorce often say, "He left me for another woman," when the truth is closer to, "Our marriage fell apart, we divorced, & he moved on & re-married."


Well, my first husband spent the night of our sons birth at his girlfriends.  Then when he came in the next day and I asked him where he had been.  He told me where.  When I got home from the hospital, via my mother, and felt better; the “blowout occurred”.

He left via the police telling him too after the neighbors called them.  Later he returned home, because in the 60’s there was no way to keep him out.  Two states and two moves later (because of his job), another girlfriend, another “blowout”.  I left with my son.  We divorced.  WE MOVED ON.  We remarried.

When he heard I was remarrying, even though he had already remarried, he called and said I was remarrying on the rebound.    Sorry off thread, had to response to @win231


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## Ronni (Nov 4, 2020)

StarSong said:


> @Ronni, given that Ron's children are all well into adulthood, why would he need to discuss his children and grandchildren with his ex?  Can his children not reach out themselves?  If there's an emergency wouldn't one of the other siblings, a spouse or child get in touch with him?
> 
> Seems to me Julie is toxic rather than supportive when it comes to Ron and his relationship with his children, not to mention his relationship with you.


She is toxic.  I agree.  

He's trying to not have his kids be the go-between.  His folks were divorced, and didn't speak, and he and his sibs were used to transmit messages back and forth between the parents for things like scheduling ... e.g. who was doing thanksgiving/Christmas when ... that kind of thing.  He remembers hating it, and it being really uncomfortable and difficult. He just doesn't want his kids to have to do the same.  

It's cumbersome, but honestly I'd be willing to deal with that if it meant that we/he didn't have to have any contact with Julie.  We've talked about it a bit.  Trying to overcome his memories of being in that position is difficult.


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## Ronni (Nov 4, 2020)

Pinky said:


> It seems as though the adult children need to be strong enough to not allow themselves to be manipulated by their mother. This seems all too common after divorce. I truly feel for both you and Ron. I went through this with my Aussie ex and his adult children. Unfortunately, he was too cowed by his ex-wife to stand up to her. Ron has my respect. It can't be easy for him.


Thanks Pinky.  No, it's definitely not easy for Ron.  He's not cowed by Julie, just for the longest time before he met me, he had no reason to not be accommodating for the most part.  He also respected the fact that she is his children's mother, and whatever his personal feelings towards Julie he tried to not let those feelings create a situation for his kids.


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## StarSong (Nov 4, 2020)

Seems like Julie turns them (or perhaps only Sheri) into her minions anyway.  Doesn't seem like Ron's strategy of trying to keep them out of his relationship with Julie is working.


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## Ronni (Nov 4, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Seems like Julie turns them (or perhaps only Sheri) into her minions anyway.  Doesn't seem like Ron's strategy of trying to keep them out of his relationship with Julie is working.


No it’s really not. But he’s been operating this way for most of their lives, so it’s taking him a bit to adjust to some kind of new normal...heck even trying to come to terms with what that needs normal looks like is challenging! He’s working on it.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 4, 2020)

I wrote, I think in my diary, that I thought I had been married to my first husband for 6 years.  . I really didn’t remember how long cause it seems to go on for forever.  I looked it up on the computer yesterday.  We were married for 2 years.  The four years came about do to issues over my son, where I guess my feeble mind added those years as marriage.  

This is part of Julie“s problem, IMO.  Being included so much in Ron”s life for so long it seemed like they still had a connection and she came to accept that she would be the only woman in his life.  More of a legal separation than a divorce.  Then Ronni, you came along.  Julie”s first attitude seems to be you all will be one big happy family, you reject that.  Although sometimes it does become one big happy family.

Ron, IMO, handled his divorce badly by not putting up definite lines and blurring the relationship with his first wife.  He has to take 50% of the responsibility for Julie”s confusion, not her behavior, her confusion.  Julie is confused, she has lost her position in his life which she has had for a long time.  You outright rejected her when she probably thought she was being excepting and gracious.

Rejecting her outright probably was a jealousy issue for you, IMO.  (I know you reject this.) No one wants an ex wife as close as she was to their husband.  There is a possession issue, as in he's mine.  These are similar to the issues Ron and you had between you and his daughter and her children.  You want to be first in his life.  I understand that.

To solve the problem, and to blend the family into one family-therapy, therapy, therapy. First between the three older adults; Ron, Ronni, and Julie.  Although IMO, Ron should also get separate therapy.  Then, if necessary, bring in the adult children who are struggling.

Otherwise, Ronni, I fear you will struggle forever, resentments will build by everyone, and even if you stay married, the marriage will be unhappy.  Just my opinion.


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## fmdog44 (Nov 4, 2020)

Sad seeing people in their late years acting like buttholes. I guess some things never change.


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## Ronni (Nov 4, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I wrote, I think in my diary, that I thought I had been married to my first husband for 6 years.  . I really didn’t remember how long cause it seems to go on for forever. I looked it up on the computer yesterday. We were married for 2 years. The four years came about do to issues over my son, where I guess my feeble mind added those years as marriage.
> 
> This is part of Julie“s problem, IMO.  Being included so much in Ron”s life for so long it seemed like they still had a connection and she came to accept that she would be the only woman in his life.  More of a legal separation than a divorce.  Then Ronni, you came along.  Julie”s first attitude seems to be you all will be one big happy family, you reject that.  Although sometimes it does become one big happy family.
> 
> ...


I don’t agree with most of this.  The jealousy issue is Julie’s, not mine. She hates that I have a warm relationship with her daughters and has threatened more than once to cut me out of their lives, as though she actually has that power 

She wouldn’t agree to therapy when they were married, I’m sure nothing’s changed, especially because she takes zero responsibility for creating any of the current upset.

I didn’t reject her outright. I simply wouldn’t discuss Ron with her. I maintained a friendly relationship with her for three years before this last onslaught.

While I’m willing to own the parts of this situation that I’ve created or contributed to, I’ll also correct the parts of it that have been mis-characterized or misunderstood.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 4, 2020)

Well, your reply is fair.  After all, I do not know any of you.


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## Knight (Nov 4, 2020)

Two issues

1. A drawing

2. Access to your home.

Is keeping the drawing worth the aggravation? If not then take a picture of it, have the picture enlarged to fit the frame.

Take the turtles over to his ex's home. Change the locks on your home. Decide if you want any family member having access to your home. 

Peace of mind or ongoing aggravation A choice


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## C'est Moi (Nov 4, 2020)

My vote is to stay out of it.   If any fallout causes estrangement with Ron's children, YOU will be blamed.  The honeymoon won't last forever but resentment will.


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## Lewkat (Nov 4, 2020)

Also, if you step back, you can assess the situation more objectively.  If Ron is enabling this in anyway, you can then step in and show him where the traps are for both.  He can't do this as he's a target.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 4, 2020)

@Ronni, so sorry to hear you're still going through this nonsense with Julie, she is obviously jealous of your relationship with him and wants to destroy it. 

 I know it's all very involved, but his kids are grown and although it's a sore spot for him because of the past, he has to just try and let go of that.  If I recall, Julie is a heavy drinker, so that explains some of her wild invasive behavior. Ron has been way too nice to her, IMO. 

 I don't have any specific advice or real answers for you, but at this rate your marriage will fall apart and neither of you will be happy.  She's a toxic woman, an emotional vampire, it's sad that she still has such power in your lives.  Wish you both the best, priority in my mind is completely eliminating her from your lives....the kids will understand and do what they need to do to deal with things.  Life is difficult enough in these times, please don't let Julie continue to ruin yours.


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## Millyd (Nov 4, 2020)

I don’t have any of those issues I’ve never married or had kids despite having a long term  relationship.
He has his abode I have mine .......just the way I like it


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## grahamg (Nov 5, 2020)

win231 said:


> A woman does not have to actually _be_ scorned to _feel_ scorned.  People often base their actions on how they _feel_; not how they _should_ feel.
> Women whose husbands re-marry after a divorce often say, "He left me for another woman," when the truth is closer to, "Our marriage fell apart, we divorced, & he moved on & re-married."


There is a lot of truth in what you say in my opinion, and changing the story so it fits in with the narrative you wish others to accept is probably very common.

I've found it quite rare to hear any divorcee speak well, or say anything positive about their ex's, but they married each other so you'd have thought there must have been more to it than just physical attraction.

Folks not being able to move on is common too, and can be defended to an extent, especially when there are children involved. I've seen some or a few positive outcomes, where those ex formerly at loggerheads have eventually, years after maybe, found a level of friendship even, but they had to "go through the mill" before this improvement was seen.


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## Kadee (Nov 5, 2020)

I’ve known of cases of I don’t want him ....but I don’t want anyone else to have him either


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## Ronni (Nov 5, 2020)

Someone here mentioned the book "The Gift of Fear."  It was my bible for a long time in dealing with my controlling abusive ex.  It's very germane to this current situation with Julie.

Here's a direct quote from the book, which perfectly describes Julie’s escalation:
A person who is seeking to feel justification for some action might move from “What you’ve done angers me” to “What you’ve done is wrong.” Popular justifications include the moral high ground of righteous indignation and the more simple equation known by its biblical name: an eye for an eye.”

She feels no embarrassment or remorse for blowing up our phones while we were on our honeymoon, sending Sheri to search and video our home while we were away, denigrating and insulting me to Ron, threatening me,  blaming me for the erosion of "their family,” using deceit and intimidation to engage Ron in conversation when he’d told her clearly she was blocked and he didn’t want to talk to her. She feels completely justified in all of those actions because she's been "wronged." This is about WAY more than a sketch. Her vicious voicemails confirm that. Her escalation the closer we got to our wedding confirms that.

I won’t underestimate what she might be capable of. Clearly she feels justified in carrying out her mission, whatever that might be.  And that's why I won't just leave this with Ron, or stay out of it, or let him handle it.  I dealt with 30 years of abuse and intimidation and control from a dysfunctional, mentally unbalanced man before I escaped, and then years of intensive education into the different personality types, therapy, support groups etc. so I'm well aware of the mechanisms of her personality type.  He's not, but he's becoming more and more aware as we wade through this and deal with each onslaught.  The LAST thing Ron will be doing is engaging with her, telling her to knock it off, threatening legal action, or in ANY way closing the distance that he's established.   To engage now would simply teach her that THIS is the level of escalation she needs to get to in order to get Ron to talk to her.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 5, 2020)

Ronni said:


> Someone here mentioned the book "The Gift of Fear."  It was my bible for a long time in dealing with my controlling abusive ex.  It's very germane to this current situation with Julie.
> 
> Here's a direct quote from the book, which perfectly describes Julie’s escalation:
> A person who is seeking to feel justification for some action might move from “What you’ve done angers me” to “What you’ve done is wrong.” Popular justifications include the moral high ground of righteous indignation and the more simple equation known by its biblical name: an eye for an eye.”
> ...


I agree he should not give her attention.  But there is a pattern that shows up.  I still think Ron would benefit from therapy.


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## Ronni (Nov 5, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I agree he should not give her attention.  But there is a pattern that shows up.  I still think Ron would benefit from therapy.


You may be right. But getting him into therapy  won’t solve this immediate threat which is what we’re focused on at the moment.


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## StarSong (Nov 5, 2020)

I agree about therapy for both of you, and immediately.  You and Ron are clearly out of your depth and Julie could work herself up from a pest to a serious danger with no notice.  Throw in alcohol and all bets are off.    

@Ronni, you may think you dealt with this effectively with your ex, but for some reason the family intrigue scenario is repeating in your life.  It's not coincidental to become attracted to and marrying someone who put you right back into the same soup.  This time you may be playing the role of the potatoes instead of the meat, and some of the other ingredients and flavorings also differ slightly, but the overall dish sounds strikingly similar, at least to me.  

From knowing you via two years of your posts it's so obvious that you're a deeply caring woman who loves her husband and family with all her heart.  I'm quite fond of you and am greatly concerned for your physical and emotional well being.  

Please call in the pros.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 5, 2020)

Ronni said:


> You may be right. But getting him into therapy  won’t solve this immediate threat which is what we’re focused on at the moment.


No, it won’t and I understand you are focused on this issue.  But I think you should focus on the long term goal, a happy solid marriage.  Same thing I want, but I have settled for less.  I don’t want you to settle.

It seems you are wavering back and forth between him taking charge, you taking charge, and the adult children chiming in; with no end of the drama in sight.  If Julie has addiction issues, as suggested, then you can not reason with her.  IMO.  If you interact with her, she is still getting “fed”.

When mentally retarded adults (and children) act up, they are denied attention until they can control themselves.  Individuals are told, in my sons group home, to go to their room until they can behave.  If they refuse, then all the other individuals go to their rooms.  Same results, the problem individual is ignored.  Maybe more ignoring her, by everyone, will work better.  Just a suggestion.


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## Lewkat (Nov 5, 2020)

He definitely should seek a restraining order against her, change the locks and phone numbers and simply be vigilant.  Do not enable her in any shape form or manner.  Do not allow the kids to enter the home without permission either, for she may be manipulating at least one of them.  It even may be necessary to obtain a legal judgement against her.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 5, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> He definitely should seek a restraining order against her, change the locks and phone numbers and simply be vigilant.  Do not enable her in any shape form or manner.  Do not allow the kids to enter the home without permission either, for she may be manipulating at least one of them.  It even may be necessary to obtain a legal judgement against her.


Restraining orders, IMO, restrain few people.


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## Shalimar (Nov 5, 2020)

Just my two cents worth. Sometimes all the cognitive  analysis around a situation such as this falls short, particularly when dealing with someone manifesting quite the cocktail of PD symptoms. Difficult to gage the final outcome, but take all reasonable precautions. Do not rule out the possibility of violence should she be unable to contain her rage once  she realises you refuse to engage.  I recommend therapy for you both, Ronni and Ron. It will make it easier  to understand the complexities of this toxic dynamic, and how to recognise and alter your response when necessary.


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## win231 (Nov 5, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Restraining orders, IMO, restrain few people.


That's true; they don't always restrain, but often, the person causing trouble will not want to be arrested & go to jail.  If that's the case here, it will work.
That was the case with my brother who caused my sister & I trouble after our parents died.  After I took out a restraining order on him, he stopped. He realized the price of harassing us would be too high; he realized I would not hesitate to have him arrested if he violated the order.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 5, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Just my two cents worth. Sometimes all the cognitive  analysis around a situation such as this falls short, particularly when dealing with someone manifesting quite the cocktail of PD symptoms. Difficult to gage the final outcome, but take all reasonable precautions. Do not rule out the possibility of violence should she be unable to contain her rage once  she realises you refuse to engage.  I recommend therapy for you both, Ronni and Ron. It will make it easier  to understand the complexities of this toxic dynamic, and how to recognise and alter your response when necessary.


This was suggested to me by my muliple doctors.  I should have therapy to learn how to deal with husbands behavior via the “correct” way to respond.  Plus lots of things were suggested for different situations.  The one I use most, bite my tongue, and ignore blah, blah, blah.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 5, 2020)

win231 said:


> That's true; they don't always restrain, but often, the person causing trouble will not want to be arrested & go to jail.  If that's the case here, it will work.
> That was the case with my brother who caused my sister & I trouble after our parents died.  After I took out a restraining order on him, he stopped. He realized the price of harassing us would be too high; he realized I would not hesitate to have him arrested if he violated the order.


The ability of your brother to stop indicates he is an in control person who deliberately harassed you and was able to stop.  I doubt Julie is in control of her actions and emotions and needs professional help, therapy, in order to stop.

My husband can not stop certain actions of his, literally can not stop.  The words leave his mouth before his brain is even close to engaging.  Certain patterns of behavior are so engrained in his make up.


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## Knight (Nov 5, 2020)

The drawing.

As an outsider to the situation I look at who I think should have the drawing. I think the ex. Julie should since during the marriage she drew it. Sentimental value can be as strong for her as it is for Ron. If it was me I'd take a picture of the drawing and give the original to his ex frame and all. Keeping the image in a photo IMO keeps what is a good memory. 

Access to your home change the locks. Phone number change that & give it out to only those you want to have it. 

Turtles take those to his ex's home if she refuses then take them to the humane society or keep them if they have any sentimental value. 

Any escalation after taking away the root cause can be dealt with on the merits of what the escalation is.


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## Jules (Nov 5, 2020)

Do Ron’s kids know about her harassing phone calls, etc? 

Why are they allowing themselves to be manipulated by Julie?

I gather that the only reason that Ron isn’t taking direct action against Julie is because of them and fear of losing them in his life.


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## Shalimar (Nov 5, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> This was suggested to me by my muliple doctors.  I should have therapy to learn how to deal with husbands behavior via the “correct” way to respond.  Plus lots of things were suggested for different situations.  The one I use most, bite my tongue, and ignore blah, blah, blah.


I use that mechanism often when dealing with certain clients who embrace a passive aggressive way of life rather than do the work of investing in their emotional well-being. Covid makes it worse. When I need something more, I turn to violence.  In my spare room I keep a big pink foam bat, and a purple sequinned plastic one. I use them to kill the bed.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 5, 2020)

My mother took up painting at one time.  She sent me a self portrait.  Why me, why me, why not my brother?  My brother likes her.  Then I learned why she sent it to me.  Do you still have the painting I sent you?  Yes, I do.

She came here once.  Do you still have the painting I sent you?  Yes, yes I do.  Can I see it?    Yes, yes you can.  I keep it in the cardboard wrapping she sent it to me in.  When she dies, if she ever does, I will send it to my brother.  Who, occasionally asks me, do you still have the painting mom gave you.  I’d sent it now, but mother would have a fit.

He is jealous.  When he learned I had grandmothers ring which she gave me as a HS graduation present, he wanted it.  I had it for 40 years, gave it to him, he gave it to his adult daughter, who lost it.  He wanted a book grandmother gave me, I gave it to him.

When he learned I had pictures of dad which I rescued from mother he wanted them.  I gave them to him.  Even though he hates dad.  Then mother wanted me to give him pictures of her that she had given to me.  I gave them to him.  Had this stuff over 40 years.  He can have it.  He can have it all.
G
Its just stuff.  Give Julie what she wants, IMO.  After all, you can not take it with you.


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## Ronni (Nov 5, 2020)

Knight said:


> The drawing........
> Any escalation after taking away the root cause can be dealt with on the merits of what the escalation is.



The  root cause isn’t the drawing.  She began escalating the closer we got to the wedding. She hounded Ron, and me, and her daughter about being allowed to attend, then began making up reasons she should just “drop by” on our wedding day. 

Before that it was drama about how we were keeping her from her newest granddaughter.

Before that it was how we shouldn’t have the wedding at all because of Covid.

There is always drama. There has always been. It’s just gotten worse and worse as our wedding day got closer. 

I think she regrets divorcing Ron, but it was ok  for years because she had unlimited access to him. Then I came along and the dynamic changed and she hasn’t handled that well. She said as much in one of her nasty voicemails...about how Ron and her always maintained “our family” before I came along and how “the b***h needed to stop interfering in “her family” etc. 

There will always be something as long as we keep engaging. Threatening her with a restraining order is engaging. Telling her
to knock it off is engaging. Giving her the sketch back is engaging. (Even apart from the fact that it isn’t hers to begin with) That’s what she wants, to maintain the connection by whatever means.

We are not about to give her that.


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## Ronni (Nov 5, 2020)

Jules said:


> Do Ron’s kids know about her harassing phone calls, etc?
> 
> Why are they allowing themselves to be manipulated by Julie?
> 
> I gather that the only reason that Ron isn’t taking direct action against Julie is because of them and fear of losing them in his life.


Exactly.

He doesn’t badmouth her to his kids. They ask him about stuff because she calls them and complains or plays the victim. He will tell them what went down if they ask. They are aware that she’s dysfunctional...no, I take that back, I don’t think they’ve ever said that. That’s my word for her.

They’ve referred to her as complex or difficult, and that their relationship with her has always been complicated.


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## Packerjohn (Nov 5, 2020)

It's not my life but......... If I was on my honeymoon, I certainly wouldn't be looking at any texts on any phones.  I would walk along the beach/lake, drinking wine, smooching at every chance, singing songs, thinking about making love & just planning our future.  I certainly wouldn't be looking at texts from nutters!  You just gotta learn where that little "power off" switch is.


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## bowmore (Nov 5, 2020)

Packerjohn said:


> It's not my life but......... If I was on my honeymoon, I certainly wouldn't be looking at any texts on any phones.  I would walk along the beach/lake, drinking wine, smooching at every chance, singing songs, thinking about making love & just planning our future.  I certainly wouldn't be looking at texts from nutters!  *You just gotta learn where that little "power off" switch is*.


I finally learned that. I have not spoken to my ex in over 20 years.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 5, 2020)

bowmore said:


> I finally learned that. I have not spoken to my ex in over 20 years.


Over 40 years for me.  My ex agreed to have my current husband adopt my son so my ex could avoid 15 dollars a month in child support.  Once that occurred, no reason to ever speak to him again.


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## Knight (Nov 5, 2020)

In post #1 you covered her past then added this new info midway in the second paragraph. Then continued about the sketch until almost the end. For this particular post your focus was on the sketch being the root cause for the ongoing reason for engaging. 

Quote
"The day after the wedding, two days before we were leaving on our honeymoon, she called Ron and demanded to have returned to her a sketch she drew of their oldest daughter when she was a baby."

The sketch was drawn by her during their marriage. For arguments sake lets suppose the sketch has a real value of 50k that she brought to the marriage. For equitable distribution of assets in a divorce wouldn't that 50k sketch go to her? If no why not? 

As for engaging her eliminating a source of contention. You mentioned Ron would deal with that problem when you came back from your honeymoon. Did he and are you satisfied with the results?


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## OneEyedDiva (Nov 5, 2020)

I agree with copying the picture and giving her the original.  She sounds like a real PITA nut case, one who would have brought about my wrath by now.  I have the same question as @Knight. Was it handled yet?


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 5, 2020)

Knight said:


> In post #1 you covered her past then added this new info midway in the second paragraph. Then continued about the sketch until almost the end. For this particular post your focus was on the sketch being the root cause for the ongoing reason for engaging.
> 
> Quote
> "The day after the wedding, two days before we were leaving on our honeymoon, she called Ron and demanded to have returned to her a sketch she drew of their oldest daughter when she was a baby."
> ...


Post #64, I believe Ronni is now handling things, not Ron.


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## Tish (Nov 5, 2020)

Wow! She is at least 50 shades of crazy fulled by unrealistic jealousy.
Girl stand your ground, completely ignore her, but make sure she understands that at no time is she welcome in your house, screen time or any other way or you will pursue legal action.
Make a photocopy of the picture in question and give her the original.
As for her daughter who thought it was fine to have an open house inspection whilst neither of you were home, I suggest you put her turtles outside and then please change the locks of your house.
The hide of some people!


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## StarSong (Nov 5, 2020)

Earlier in the thread Ronni mentioned that the turtles have been returned to Ron's daughter.


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## Knight (Nov 5, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Post #64, I believe Ronni is now handling things, not Ron.


It sounds like it.  I'm more of a confront the issue and get whatever settled. As for the texts & ongoing grief via phone.  After the 1st call I would take the sim cards out  & buy a burner phone. Giving out the number to only the trusted daughter for any emergency.  

Burner is available on iOS and Android, and comes with a free trial that lasts seven days, 20 minutes, or 60 messages. You can get unlimited voice minutes and texts in the area code of the user's choice for 8 credits, which costs from about $4 to $4.99, depending on whether you buy credits in bulk. If you want to pay as you go, the standard Burner is 30 days / 50 minutes / 150 texts for 5 credits.). In our testing, it took between 10 and 15 seconds to set up a new number.


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## Millyd (Nov 5, 2020)

Filming / video of your / Ron’s home is a gross invasion of privacy IMO..... you really don’t know what the guilty party ( s) looked at / touched in cupboards / drawers / your bedroom 


Think about it who  has keys to the home other than you ......I’d be changing locks ASAP


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 6, 2020)

Millyd said:


> Filming / video of your / Ron’s home is a gross invasion of privacy IMO..... you really don’t know what the guilty party ( s) looked at / touched in cupboards / drawers / your bedroom
> 
> 
> Think about it who  has keys to the home other than you ......I’d be changing locks ASAP


I have nothing in my house that I would worry about anyone else seeing.  But I would be worried about virus contamination if someone touched all my stuff.  I still wipe down my groceries, fast food containers etc.  Anything that comes in gets wiped down.


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## Ronni (Nov 6, 2020)

Millyd said:


> Filming / video of your / Ron’s home is a gross invasion of privacy IMO..... you really don’t know what the guilty party ( s) looked at / touched in cupboards / drawers / your bedroom
> 
> 
> Think about it who  has keys to the home other than you ......I’d be changing locks ASAP


Yeah, the fact that she saw everything in the house really creeped me out!!  Luckily my daughter was going over to the house to take care of the plants while we were on our honeymoon, and she knows the house pretty well, so she was able to oversee things and make sure nothing out of the ordinary happened.  She also cleaned sanitized it thoroughly for us before we got back!!

And yeah, we took care of the security as soon as we got back from our Honeymoon...changed the code on the keypad locks we have.  Repositioned the cameras so that we can see the cars along with everything else (potential vandalism) We make sure the alarm is on at night, that the alarm is engaged on his work van, and that everything's secure.


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## StarSong (Nov 6, 2020)

Knight said:


> I'm more of a confront the issue and get whatever settled.


Me, too.


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## gennie (Nov 6, 2020)

...


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## Ronni (Nov 6, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Me, too.



Don’t mistake my or Ron’s lack of response with fear or unwillingness. Refusing to engage and distancing oneself from an aggressor is a strategy, not a reaction. 

From a psychological perspective, some kind of response is exactly what this personality type wants. It doesn’t matter whether it’s positive or negative as long as it’s responsive. So responding in any manner, whether it’s returning the photo to her, taking out a restraining order, demanding she never contact us again, whatever, she has achieved her goal.

When I started this thread, I was at my wits end and was just sort of knee-jerk reacting to the latest drama and situation. But as I read your responses, calmed down a bit and got a better handle on me emotions, I finally began to recall my years of training and education and therapy after escaping the abuse and control and domination of my ex. I stopped just reacting emotionally and began to realize that this went way deeper than a sketch, that she’s been escalating for some time and this was a further escalation, and that responding in ANY way is not how you handle a toxic person like her.

We’re still taking all reasonable precautions because as long as she continues to escalate there’s no telling what she’ll do next. But if she stays true to pattern, which a large percentage do, she’ll eventually tire of trying to provoke a response and will move on to the next drama, though she may revisit this one occasionally to see if anything’s changed, just like my ex continues to do even after 20 years.


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## 911 (Nov 6, 2020)

Ronni---Are you sure that you don't want to make your life into a Reality Show?? I think you could do about 4-5 years of episodes.


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## Ronni (Nov 6, 2020)

911 said:


> Ronni---Are you sure that you don't want to make your life into a Reality Show?? I think you could do about 4-5 years of episodes.



Y’know, we could probably take in quite a bit of dough if we did!!   On the other hand, who would believe this crap?!


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## RadishRose (Nov 6, 2020)

I agree with you Ronni. As I've said; "ignore".  

Hopefully, Ron won't let his concern for his grown children's feelings drive him. They're bonded; they will always love him and are free to be with him whenever.


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## Ronni (Nov 6, 2020)

RadishRose said:


> I agree with you Ronni. As I've said; "ignore".
> 
> Hopefully, Ron won't let his concern for his grown children's feelings drive him. They're bonded; they will always love him and are free to be with him whenever.



He was so hot about this, so furious at Julie, that he wanted to charge in like my knight in shining armor and defend me from the vicious awful things she said about me. And call his kids and break his vow to never bad mouth their mother to them and tell them just what a piece of **** she was, and defend us both to them too, because he was certain she was calling and ranting to them about us. He's been that way ever since he listened to the voice mails.  I made him promise me to not do ANYTHING till he'd calmed down and we could talk.    

We talked a long time last night.   I reminded him that his girls love him, that they CHOSE him to raise them and be there for them, that he is the one they always turn to, talk to, hang with.  Yes, Sheri is more connected with her Mom, but Sheri is also the savvy one, always playing the angles, and she's long since realized that it's in HER best interests to not alienate her Mom, but that has never stopped her from being her Dad's ally and remaining close to him. 

We also talked about my relationship with his girls and that it's solid.  I survived a couple rocky patches with them (I've posted about them here) by owning my stuff and continuing to communicate, while maintaining my boundaries, all to a good result.  We have a good relationship, and I'm a big girl and am perfectly capable of defending myself to them if the need arises.  That we have zero control over what their Mom tells them, but complete control over creating the kind of relationship we want with them regardless.  

And we also talked at length about what I've already communicated here...who she is at her core, her unstable state, her mechanisms etc., and how important it is for us to not react, but to adopt a strategy that works in the vast majority of cases.


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## 911 (Nov 6, 2020)

I am no psychiatrist, but from what I have learned and using my own wisdom, I can give you a little advice. First is that you and Ron have to learn to "let go." Just stop communicating. You owe her nothing, Ron's daughters are old enough to make their own decisions and choices, so there is no need for contact in that regard. Secondly and the most important is that each time one of you, no matter who it is, contacts or answers her call or questions, you are keeping her in your life and validating her existence. This in turn gives her reason to keep playing the game. 

There is an excellent book on the shelf titled, "The Art of Letting Go" by Melody Beattie. Really good reading. 

Ask Shalimar. I'll bet that she is familiar with it.


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## Shalimar (Nov 6, 2020)

Ronni. Unpredictability is one of the most frustrating aspects of dealing with people whose behaviour is consistently irrational. You can do right action up the wazoo, yet uncertainty remains. Ultimately, all you can hope for is that the measures you have set in place will suffice. No one,

including professionals such as myself, can offer more than behavioural probabilities. At least, you can feel empowered by firmly taking the reins in those areas you can control, and exercise vigilance in those areas you cannot. I think you are to be commended for keeping grounded during a chaotic situation.


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## Pinky (Nov 6, 2020)

What is important, is that you and Ron are on the same page @Ronni 
That will bring you through this.


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## Ronni (Nov 7, 2020)

911 said:


> I am no psychiatrist, but from what I have learned and using my own wisdom, I can give you a little advice. First is that you and Ron have to learn to "let go." Just stop communicating. You owe her nothing, Ron's daughters are old enough to make their own decisions and choices, so there is no need for contact in that regard. Secondly and the most important is that each time one of you, no matter who it is, contacts or answers her call or questions, you are keeping her in your life and validating her existence. This in turn gives her reason to keep playing the game.
> 
> There is an excellent book on the shelf titled, "The Art of Letting Go" by Melody Beattie. Really good reading.
> 
> Ask Shalimar. I'll bet that she is familiar with it.


@911 I agree completely. My more recent posts cover all your points in detail.

I read The Art Of Letting Go years ago, as one of many books I considered required reading after leaving my abusive ex. Thanks for the reminder though, I’d forgotten that one. I’ll add it to my current reading list of books I’m re-reading to give myself a bit of a refresher course about this personality type.

I just finished re-reading The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker. Fascinating reading!! I recommend it if you’re not familiar with it.


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## Ronni (Nov 7, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Ronni. Unpredictability is one of the most frustrating aspects of dealing with people whose behaviour is consistently irrational. You can do right action up the wazoo, yet uncertainty remains. Ultimately, all you can hope for is that the measures you have set in place will suffice. No one,
> 
> including professionals such as myself, can offer more than behavioural probabilities. At least, you can feel empowered by firmly taking the reins in those areas you can control, and exercise vigilance in those areas you cannot. I think you are to be commended for keeping grounded during a chaotic situation.



Thanks so much Shalimar.  That means a lot coming from you.  

Yeah, the unpredictable volatility is hard to manage, which is why I found that distancing myself, going no contact in situations like this is the best course of action.  Putting distance between myself and the toxic person removes me from the effects of the fallout for the most part.  Education is key.  Until I immersed myself in a thorough education about the various toxic personality types, I was just floundering around, because I tried to approach the situation rationally, and of course there's nothing rational about toxic people!!


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## bowmore (Nov 7, 2020)

Dear Ronni,
I am so sorry you have to go through this.  It brings flashbacks to my years of harassment when I got divorced. I finally learned not to engage her and had my phone number changed.
I finally realized that the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. I do not care one fig about what she is doing and whether she lives or dies.


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## Shalimar (Nov 7, 2020)

Ronni said:


> Thanks so much Shalimar.  That means a lot coming from you.
> 
> Yeah, the unpredictable volatility is hard to manage, which is why I found that distancing myself, going no contact in situations like this is the best course of action.  Putting distance between myself and the toxic person removes me from the effects of the fallout for the most part.  Education is key.  Until I immersed myself in a thorough education about the various toxic personality types, I was just floundering around, because I tried to approach the situation rationally, and of course there's nothing rational about toxic people!!


You are most welcome.
Bingo! This is all about crazy, and crazy making behaviour. Rational doesn’t cut it, education helps u separate reality from the mind crushing  chaos which can leave you feeling as if you live your life sliding down a razor blade


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