# Real consequences of fake news



## Warrigal (Dec 5, 2016)

This story could have ended so badly. 
Looking at all of the elements, any suggestions on how to avoid similar events like this one?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-didnt-find-any-there/?utm_term=.fbd396233f1b


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## Don M. (Dec 5, 2016)

There is a Ton of trash on the Internet....especially on the social media sites.  A sensible person would do a search...looking for reports from the mainstream media, before believing something like a family pizza parlor being a front for a sex slave trade.  However, the "key" word is "sensible"...and we all know that that trait is sorely lacking in a vast number of our populations.


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## NancyNGA (Dec 5, 2016)

Warri, the most frightening thing to me in that article is our National Security Advisor (to-be) Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn's involvement in spreading that fake news.

The National Security Advisor is the person who is supposed to be an honest broker in summarizing "facts" concerning national security, and briefing the President (elect).  Can it get any more bizarre?


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## Warrigal (Dec 5, 2016)

Will it be Lt Gen Michael Flynn advising Pres Trump on national security or his son Michael Flynn Jnr?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat..._how_debunked_pizzagate_is_a_legit_thing.html

A firm grasp on reality would seem to be a prerequisite for national security issues.
Let's hope that nepotism is not the defining feature of Trump's cabinet.


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## NancyNGA (Dec 5, 2016)

"On Twitter, (Retired Army Lt. Gen.) Michael Flynn interacted with alt-right, made controversial comments on Muslims, shared fake news." 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/kfile-flynn-tweets/


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## Warrigal (Dec 5, 2016)

That is really worrying. The Russians will run rings around these people because they are so willing to believe falsehoods that align with their mindset. They don't seem to have any caution that tells them to wait for verification/clarification.

Let's hope the real professionals keep them on a short lead and guide them firmly towards the finer art of international game playing.


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## Butterfly (Dec 6, 2016)

Personally, I think we'd all be better off without Twitter.


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## Warrigal (Dec 6, 2016)

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
I.E. closed down my previous response and I can't remember how to find auto save, so I'll have to begin again.

I feel sorry for this young man duped into thinking that he could rescue some children from ****** abuse. I have no idea what was going on in his head but chances are that he, or someone dear to him has been the victim of such crimes. This in my mind makes the original lie all the more heinous having been deliberately concocted out of nothing substantial in Podesta's leaked emails for base political advantage. People could have been killed, a business has been slandered and probably suffered financial damage and a young man's emotions have been exploited without regard to the emotional and reputational damage to him and his family.

But the damage goes further. It extends beyond Washington and the US borders. This story has been featured on Australian news this evening and discussion centred on what can be done to prevent false news from being widely disseminated via social media. General consensus? Not much, end of story, let's move on.

However, in the ME America's enemies and detractors will feast on this story for years to come. In Turkey, a US ally, there is a lot of damage being caused because people are all too keen to believe that the US is corrupt to the core. It doesn't matter that the story is false, it confirms suspicions and fuels hatred.



> “PizzaGate” is more than an alt-right conspiracy theory for the Turkish people—it is a thoroughly covered satanism and pedophilia scandal that supposedly involves Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and a pizza place.
> 
> In the last week, all Turkish pro-government papers, including mainstream publications like _Sabah_, _A Haber_, _Yeni Şafak_, _Akşam_ and _Star_, ran similar stories about the PizzaGate, using the very same images and claims from a (now banned) subreddit to convince their readers on how serious and deep-rooted the scandal was. Columnists penned articles that the PizzaGate is a part of the globalist conspiracy against Turkey, and one article even remarked that the “Teenage” in pizza-eating Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles now makes sense as a pedophilia reference after PizzaGate.
> 
> ...


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Dec 6, 2016)

One of the current challenges for the U.S.... How to keep those who have been led like sheep to believe anything and everything having to do with the "government" and the "main stream media" is evil.  They get their "news" from off-the-wall antagonists... and believe every word of it.

Just posted on this site in another thread is the conspiracy theory that Osama Bin Laden's capture and death is a made up story by the "gubmint".  And, it sounds like the poster believes the conspiracy as he/she believes the conspiracy that millions have voted illegally.  How often have we read, "And not reported by the main stream media"??  Well, if it wasn't reported, did it actually happen as told or was it another "pizza restaurant sex ring"?

A shame we have been so brainwashed that we believe nothing from reputable sources.  Of course, someone will answer back that "reputable" sources are those akin to Breitbart, etc.


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## Warrigal (Dec 6, 2016)

I'm an ex teacher Grumpy so rather naturally I believe the answer lies with the education of children and young adults. 

Media was a topic within the English curriculum when I was teaching and the aim was to encourage students to analyse different styles of writing in different media of the time (no social media or online news around then) learning to recognise slanted reporting and reader manipulation. I thought this an advance on my English lessons that seemed to concentrate almost entirely on the history of English literature, and by 'English', I mean 'from England'.

Analysis is one of the higher order thinking skills and not everyone develops to this level. However, it is imperative that as many people as possible learn to think for themselves and giving students the necessary tools to do this in a modern context is vital. This skill is an objective of every subject from English to History and from science to mathematics, or at least it was some decades ago. Has the back to basics movement killed it off?


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## Sunny (Dec 6, 2016)

You want to see "scary?"  Here's a column from yesterday's paper that truly scared me to death. Welcome to 1984! I love the line, "There's no such thing, unfortunately, anymore, as facts."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...45a208f7a73_story.html?utm_term=.8f438120a1fa


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## Warrigal (Dec 6, 2016)

This is an assessment from a Sydney mainstream newspaper. It is worth a read.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/what-th...ng-for-political-reality-20161206-gt4vbk.html


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## Don M. (Dec 6, 2016)

Butterfly said:


> Personally, I think we'd all be better off without Twitter.



Amen!  Facebook and Twitter, etc., have given any number of Idiots a forum to spread their nonsense.


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## WhatInThe (Dec 6, 2016)

Some of the consequences of "fake news" is the core issues will be ignored or dismissed. Pedophilia, child labor and/or sex slaves is 'an' issue. Forget who, those are the issues that should be addressed. 

 It is not that hard to speculate or make a leap there is indeed a pedophile ring or cult in DC. Is it on the scale of pizza gate, probably not but when the ex speaker of house is convicted of child sex offenses, a congressman resigns for sexting to under age girls in front of their kid, a big political donor/party facilitator is convicted sex offender and previous DC sex/underage scandal like the Franklin scandal one must wonder about child prostitution in DC and/or professional politician world. Are they connected-probably not. Is that criminal behavior ignored, tolerated or enabled too often, probably.


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## Robusta (Dec 6, 2016)

Yes there probably most certainly a sex ring or two or three in DC.  So you are saying that publishing and promoting out and out lies is acceptable?  I do know that many of the Trump supporters believe so.

WhatInThe  just proved the point. There is no "PIZZAGATE", but instaed of soundly and definitively denouncing lies and unsubstantiated rumor, you jumped up and deflected to another angle. Hence president trump!


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## WhatInThe (Dec 6, 2016)

Robusta said:


> Yes there probably most certainly a sex ring or two or three in DC.  So you are saying that publishing and promoting out and out lies is acceptable?  I do know that many of the Trump supporters believe so.
> 
> WhatInThe  just proved the point. There is no "PIZZAGATE", but instaed of soundly and definitively denouncing lies and unsubstantiated rumor, you jumped up and deflected to another angle. Hence president trump!



The thread is the consequences of 'fake news'. NOT "Those denouncing fake news post here". One of the consequences will be that the actual topic of the 'fake news' will be ignored.

Should add that the topic in the article linked in the op's post is involves the conspiracy theory pizzagate which is about pedophiles in the political ranks.


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## Jackie22 (Dec 6, 2016)

[h=1]Trump cuts ties with Flynn Jr.[/h]*BY KATIE BO WILLIAMS at the Hill* 

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/309086-trump-cuts-ties-with-flynn-jr 

"SNIP............... 


Donald Trump's transition team on Tuesday severed ties with the son of the president-elect’s pick for national security adviser amidst scrutiny of retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn’s habitual promotion of conspiracy theories. 

The break, reportedly a direct order from Trump himself, came after Michael Flynn Jr. in a Twitter post on Sunday suggested a made-up story about a child sex ring at a Washington pizzeria was true. 


Earlier that day, a gunman who believed the hoax had gone to the popular neighborhood restaurant and fired shots. 
The incident put a violent twist on the long-simmering debate over the power of fake news — and raised concerns about the man about to take on one of the most powerful positions in the country’s national security apparatus. 

Both Flynn and his son have pushed unsubstantiated stories linking Hillary Clinton to underage sex rings, providing no evidence to support their claims.


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## Robusta (Dec 6, 2016)

So??????  We all know dear leaders feelings on the media.  Will this be turned as justification for an adjustment of the 1rst?


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## Robusta (Dec 6, 2016)

“When you get a government position — whether it's a U.S. congressman, whether it's national security adviser or anything — you now have a different level of commitment to the truth that you have to hold onto because people are going to take your words and take them literally,” Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) told CNN on Tuesday


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## Warrigal (Dec 6, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> The thread is the consequences of 'fake news'. NOT "Those denouncing fake news post here". One of the consequences will be that the actual topic of the 'fake news' will be ignored.
> 
> Should add that the topic in the article linked in the op's post is involves the conspiracy theory pizzagate which is about pedophiles in the political ranks.


I see it a little differently, Whattie. 



> For 45 minutes, police said, Edgar Maddison Welch, cradling an AR-15 assault-style rifle, roamed the Comet Ping Pong pizza restaurant looking to prove an Internet conspiracy theory that the popular D.C. restaurant harbored juvenile sex slaves.



I see a 28 year old man, very upset by the idea that children were  being held as sex slaves behind the scenes of a pizza parlour. So upset indeed that he travelled some distance, armed with a serious firearm, in an attempt to rescue them. There were no children and no sex slaves and the pizza parlour is not and never has been involved in any such crimes. The whole thing could have turned tragic and the staff are probably still traumatised.

And it was a lie that someone invented for political purposes.

Sometimes false news reports make it to air due to lack of diligence on the part of the reporters but this is an example of something much more insidious - but I'm not sure how to name it. Slander or libel come to mind but I'm not sure that this is what it really is. Conspiracy theory? In part that label fits but I see it a lot differently to stories of concealed alien visitations or faked lunar landings. This story had the potential to damage people's reputations and their business and for what? 

Who started it? Cui bono? Who benefits? Even if no charges can be laid I would not like to see the culprits get off lightly in the court of public opinion. IMO this is a dastardly deed conducted by one or more unprincipled people and at the very least they should be publicly shamed. Waffling on about politicians with deplorable moral standards should not be allowed to deflect attention from the originators of this chicanery. That is a whole other can of worms that needs to be examined for its own sake.

People need to be made aware that fake news exists and resist the urge to immediately forward/retweet some juicy rumour/scandal etc without first asking the question "How reliable is this report?" The more serious the charge, the more important it is not to allow ourselves to be used as pawns by others.

You can be sure that I will be visiting the biblical commandment against bearing false witness in my Sunday School class with emphasis on social media scenarios as well as the more traditional interpretations. Truth mattered in ancient times and matters still today.

Sorry about the rant, but this issue is something that I care passionately about.


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## Warrigal (Dec 6, 2016)

Robusta said:


> “When you get a government position — whether it's a U.S. congressman, whether it's national security adviser or anything — you now have a different level of commitment to the truth that you have to hold onto because people are going to take your words and take them literally,” Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) told CNN on Tuesday



Without truth there is no honour.


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## Warrigal (Dec 6, 2016)

This episode has now cost one man a job on the Trump transition team and another man, nominated for the position of national security adviser, is being carefully scrutinised for his  temperament, his conspiratorial worldview and his own incendiary Twitter postings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/06/us/politics/michael-flynn-son-trump.html?_r=0

Words still have consequences, even in a post truth world.


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## Warrigal (Dec 7, 2016)

The New Yorker on Pizzagate



> The charge at the center of Pizzagate is this: Comet Ping Pong is where high-ranking Democrats go when they want pizza. But “pizza” is not pizza. It is a code word for sexually exploitable young girls, or maybe for young boys, or for infants trafficked from Haiti and killed for their organs, which are then trafficked further.
> 
> And John Podesta talked about pizza in his e-mails, which were released by Wikileaks. He talked about pizza _more than once_. Again, it’s hard to know where to start—by asking what the proof is or by asking why anyone would ever posit these notions as something that needed proving or disproving.
> 
> ...



When all of the elements are mapped out like this the absurdity becomes more apparent but in a single post or a single tweet just one allegation is enough to cause people to react by sharing or retweeting. I suspect the creators of this set of lies know this and drip feed the nonsense a bit at a time. I would like to see some of the early tweets/posts to see how it all played out.


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## grahamg (Dec 7, 2016)

*I agree, its a problem*



Grumpy Ol' Man said:


> One of the current challenges for the U.S.... How to keep those who have been led like sheep to believe anything and everything having to do with the "government" and the "main stream media" is evil.  They get their "news" from off-the-wall antagonists... and believe every word of it.
> 
> Just posted on this site in another thread is the conspiracy theory that Osama Bin Laden's capture and death is a made up story by the "gubmint".  And, it sounds like the poster believes the conspiracy as he/she believes the conspiracy that millions have voted illegally.  How often have we read, "And not reported by the main stream media"??  Well, if it wasn't reported, did it actually happen as told or was it another "pizza restaurant sex ring"?
> 
> A shame we have been so brainwashed that we believe nothing from reputable sources.  Of course, someone will answer back that "reputable" sources are those akin to Breitbart, etc.



I could do with you on another forum for over fifties I use (if you have the patience), but luckily one or two people over there make similar replies to yours, when essentially fake news comes up.

BTW I absolutely loved this tag line or whatever its called (by W.....), and just wanted to share how much it made me laugh, quote:
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or an idiot from any direction."


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## Ray (Dec 7, 2016)

How typical of the Washington Post. In an item in their Style section, Scottie Nell Hughes, described as a frequent surrogate for Donald Trump and CNN commentator, stated a reality of the world in which we live - the lack of facts. The Post writer, Margaret Sullivan then went on to distort the story to make it seem like the Trump campaign created the problem.

It seems like the Washington Post has demonstrated the reality of the problem they supposedly were reporting on.


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