# Is the visit to the doctor a science or crap shoot.



## Son_of_Perdition (May 8, 2016)

Interesting note on BP, I monitor mine on a daily basis, take my BP meds at bedtime (advice of nurse).  I use a highly rated machine I purchased & am always a little higher at my PC's office.  White coast syndrome.  I questioned the assistant (she isn't even a licensed medical professional) about the fact that she uses a cup & stethoscope taking mine.  I place my arm up on the little counter next to my bench, forearm barely on the edge, hand hanging down.  Little higher than I get.  When I was in the hospital they took my BP when I was laying down, I questioned that also, shouldn't I be in a sitting position?  No problem it's close enough.  The cup at the PC's is not designed for a larger arm, I read where that can give a false reading.  

This AM & as a test & during the last few days I have been positioning my arm at different levels, hand/wrist hanging down, resting on pillow, feet flat on floor, waiting longer after meals.  I can get a wide range of numbers just by changing positions, times & situations.  How can anyone use those results as a determination for medication & getting the right dosage?  The number this morning was different by 10 points on the upper number & 5 points on the lower.  Pulse rate was level little change.  I wonder about ball park guestimates to determine my needed medication.


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## Bobw235 (May 8, 2016)

Maybe I'll find out tomorrow.  Time for my annual physical with my GP.  He's been caring for me for about 15 years.


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## Guitarist (May 8, 2016)

It's a crapshoot IMO.

I was told to have it taken when I'm sitting upright, feet flat on floor, arm supported by the arm of the chair or sofa so that my elbow pulse is on a level with my heart, sit still for 5 minutes beforehand without talking or watching TV or stressing out at the prospect of having my BP checked.  

Often when you go to the doctor's office you're sitting getting stressed in the waiting room with a TV on some stressful news channel, phones ringing, temperature too cold or too hot; then they call you in, sit you down in a chair with no arms, or arms too high or too low, or on the examination table where your feet are dangling;  and immediately check your BP while they converse with you, all of which can cause your numbers to spike.


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## Wrigley's (May 8, 2016)

SOP, they know there is a range of normal limits that depend on how long you've been sitting, the position of your arm, etc. Food and drink can effect it. They're just checking to make sure you are within the normal range. If you're a ways off, they usually ask a question like, Are you a little nervous about today's visit? or You feeling tired today? and go from there. If you're significantly above or below the normal range, they sound the alarm.

It's just a litmus test.


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## Son_of_Perdition (May 8, 2016)

Wrigley's said:


> SOP, they know there is a range of normal limits that depend on how long you've been sitting, the position of your arm, etc. Food and drink can effect it. They're just checking to make sure you are within the normal range. If you're a ways off, they usually ask a question like, Are you a little nervous about today's visit? or You feeling tired today? and go from there. If you're significantly above or below the normal range, they sound the alarm.
> 
> It's just a litmus test.


The three times I vacationed for a few days in the hospital I had incidents that I would classify as mistakes that could have been life threatening unless I hadn't questioned the medical staff about the treatment.  One was because of a mis-diagnosis that landed me in the hospital with staph infection.  The second stay when I went to the emergency room the nurse accidentally turned the tube that was being inserted through my nose to me stomach causing a dangerous open wound in my nasal cavity.  Then after surgery on my abdomen the floor nurse was trying to turn me to change the linens & accidentally push on my stitches causing a tear & bleeding.  

During that same stay they were giving me blood thinners that caused my nose to hemorrhage almost bled to death.  It required packing my nose to stop the bleeding.  They came in the next day to give me another blood thinner to which I refused, I told the surgeon later what had happened, he agreed I made the right decision.  They gave me the medication when I had been prescribed an anti-biotic causing a severe drop in blood pressure, the emergency team that saved me asked me several questions about who was in the room when I received the injection.  

The last stay in 2015 I was administered glucose & insulin to bring my counts down gradually.  One of the nurses failed to replace the insulin with a fresh bag, my BS count soared back up to 480 from 230, I asked the head nurse if that was correct, she said she was calling the doctor, left the room, returned immediately & said I'm making a management decision, she yanked the feed out of the IV line & immediately gave me a healthy shot of insulin then called the doctor.  Two days later they had changed the location of my IV & it started to infuse my arm, it had slipped out the vein.  My arm swelled up, the nurse immediately yanked the tube out & moved everything to my other arm.

So I can only call on my experience & make a judgment call, they are only human but if you can you better be aware & questioned every test, needle & pill they are giving you, the life you save may be your own.  Three for three is not a good average 

http://www.healthcareitnews.com/news/deaths-by-medical-mistakes-hit-records   says volumes!


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## fureverywhere (May 8, 2016)

The GP we have is a crapshoot. I'd consider finding another doctor but with Medicaid they all might be like this. Keep me waiting two hours and wonder why my blood pressure is on the monster side? He's prescribed meds to hubby intercepted by the pharmacy because of possible reaction to other meds he takes.


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## Wrigley's (May 8, 2016)

Son_of_Perdition said:


> The three times I vacationed for a few days in the hospital I had incidents that I would classify as mistakes that could have been life threatening unless I hadn't questioned the medical staff about the treatment.  One was because of a mis-diagnosis that landed me in the hospital with staph infection.  The second stay when I went to the emergency room the nurse accidentally turned the tube that was being inserted through my nose to me stomach causing a dangerous open wound in my nasal cavity.  Then after surgery on my abdomen the floor nurse was trying to turn me to change the linens & accidentally push on my stitches causing a tear & bleeding.
> 
> During that same stay they were giving me blood thinners that caused my nose to hemorrhage almost bled to death.  It required packing my nose to stop the bleeding.  They came in the next day to give me another blood thinner to which I refused, I told the surgeon later what had happened, he agreed I made the right decision.  They gave me the medication when I had been prescribed an anti-biotic causing a severe drop in blood pressure, the emergency team that saved me asked me several questions about who was in the room when I received the injection.
> 
> ...



Holy crap! No wonder you're worried about your blood pressure. Although I'd say that's the least of your worries if you ever need to go back to that hospital.


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## Butterfly (May 9, 2016)

Wrigley's said:


> Holy crap! No wonder you're worried about your blood pressure. Although I'd say that's the least of your worries if you ever need to go back to that hospital.



Yup; I sure wouldn't be going back into that hospital if I could help it.  AND I'd make that hospital administration and my doctor very aware of the lousy treatment I had received there.


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## CuriousKate (May 9, 2016)

I could go on such a rant on this subject but have decided to forego. I would like to say congrats to Son for being his own advocate-as all of us should be!. And Butterfly is right that these incidents should be reported to administrators....not that the outcome would change but they need to be put on notice that they are being watched. I also highly recommend that anyone with a serious illness have someone with them at their appointments and hospital stays. When one is in the throes of a an illness, they don't always comprehend what is being said to them. Having another set of ears can be invaluable!!


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## Son_of_Perdition (May 9, 2016)

I should clarify, the first incident (staph) was in our former state, city before retirement.  The mistake was made by my GP who admitted it.  The hospital & staff were located in a small (20,000) community & you were better off having a family member getting things rather than depending upon the overworked staff.  The next two incidents were at the modern hospital in our new location, someone told me it was built for $1B.  Modern in everyway but still had the unavoidable human element.  I was so grateful that the surgeon saved my life & most of the staff was very competent, but still had those few mistakes.  I didn't want the poor little nurse who had trouble getting the tube in & it's policy to give blood thinners after surgery for blood clotting.  I just had a 'perfect' storm with my nasal problems.  The nurse who pushed on my stomach was also the one who rushed to get me fixed after her mistake.  The last incident was also because of human error but the on duty nurse reacted correctly when she did what she did.  They kept apologizing to which I accepted.  I just wanted to point out that anyone that goes for medical care needs to take some responsibility & question your care, medical staff are only human.


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## Phoenix (May 15, 2016)

My bp used to always be different until I found the right medication.  I now use Lisinopril.  It works for me.  Most doctors don't seem to know squat.  I take kyolic garlic for my cholesterol, after Lipitor gave me severe pain and little bumps and psoriasis.  The doctor told me it had no side effects.  In a pig's eye!  It's a statin drug and they are horrible drugs.  I read up on it and decide to take it anyway.  It was a mistake I'm still paying for.  I stopped taking the Lipitor after six days.  The pain went away, but the bumps never did.  The Prednizone the doc gave me for the bumps didn't get rid of them and took away my ability to sleep, what little I had.  It also made me grouchy.  I stopped taking it.  I hesitate to go the the doctor.  I don't trust any of them.


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## Don M. (May 16, 2016)

There are some very good reasons why doctors used to be referred to as "Quacks"....and some of those reasons appears to still exist today.  It seems that most of a doctors time is spent cross checking symptoms with prescription drug "fixes".  The few times I've been to a doctor in recent years, the doctor is married to his/her laptop, keying in the information, and coming up with a diagnosis.  Heck, I can do that myself by going to WebMD or the MayoClinic web site, and doing some careful research.  At the bare minimum, after visiting a doctor, and getting his/her "opinion", I Always go to these web-sites and double check what they have told me.  Then, between the Side Effects noted on these endless Ask Your Doctor TV ads, and the info contained in sites such as Drugs.com, I would be Very Careful about taking Any prescription drugs...and be fully aware of the side effects before taking them.  

Bottom line...if a person is going to receive the best care when they get ill, they MUST participate in their own treatment, and question any doctors recommendations they are Not comfortable with.


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## Son_of_Perdition (May 16, 2016)

I took Lisinopril off & on for years, I first took Benicar, that turned out to be one of the medications targeted by the husker lawyers on TV for class action lawsuits.  I remember I did suffer from the side effects of it (stomach distress).  Lisinopril controlled my BP but I was having trouble with a hacking cough, one of my cribbage club members pointed out that my cough could be associated with the BP meds.  Researched it, yep, first item on 'side effects' list was cough.  

Talked to my doctor, he changed me to Losartan, seems to work as prescribed but an internet list has it as the 50th most dangerous drug or whatever you can take.  My BP is solid 'normal' hoping it will stay that way until me & doctor agree to phase it out.  If it stays there I'm calling him to see if he can change from 50mg to 25mg then gradually stop it altogether.  I have been on metformin for 9 months & according to another 'internet' article it's the miracle drug that everyone should be taking, my cost at Walmart is $0, zip, nada.  If it's all what's it's cracked up to be, it's a small thing, minor inconvenience to take it.

I stopped all my supplements, mainly St Johns Wort.  Warnings about the interaction with prescribed meds.  Then the 'internet' warnings about supplement production, yeah like commercial manufactures do any better.  I admit I did feel much better afterwards.  My BS was out of whack in July '15 went on insulin, retail cost was $475 monthly.  Easily hit the 'donut hole' in Nov '15 figured I would be paying full retail sometime in May-Jun time frame.  Researched found the 60 YO insulin they had been giving patients that worked just as well.  Buy it at Walmart @ $120 for 90 day supply, don't even need a prescription.  I've now reduced my needs by at least 40% because of my low carb diet (including meats, eggs & my 8 fruits & veggies daily) & massive weight loss.  

I read another 'internet' list of the 12 healthy products you should be consuming, of the 12 I'm eating all but one, can't get into fish (wild salmon) in any shape or form.   So to supplement my Omega-3 needs I have 1 Tbsp of flaxseed daily.  I drink 3 Tbsp of apple cider vinegar one before each meal.  I have 1 Tbsp (3 total) 'hemp hearts' mixed in my oatmeal, eggs or cottage cheese (3 daily).  If you want to call them 'supplements' so beit, it works for me & my medical professionals are happy.

My CBC numbers are all great (normal), so change to the latest fad is not in my plans, but who knows maybe be eating dandelion greens next.  Agree with your assessment Don & good luck with your treatment Phoenix.


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## Phoenix (May 16, 2016)

No matter what we take there are chances of side effects.  Mostly, I think of my grand aunt who lived to be 97.  She had high blood pressure and took her meds off and on.  She took supplements and treated herself.  She used DMSO she got from the vet for her aches and pains.  She had worked as a nursing assistant for years.  When I wonder what to do, I think back on what she might have done.  My mom on the other hand took all kinds of meds and lost who she was, because of them.  I won't do that, if I can help it.


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## fishfulthinking (Jun 3, 2016)

we are all Science... experiments for the Drug companies.
Got to the doctor and you get, here try this pill and see what it does, if nothing happens in x days come back and see me and we will see what other pill I can push upon you.  My drug dealer will have many options.


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## Phoenix (Jun 3, 2016)

I know of way too many people who are taking very damaging prescription drugs and are in denial about it.  Not drugs they need but ones they think they need.


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## Buckeye (Jun 3, 2016)

Been taking BP and Cholesterol drugs for 20 years.  3 or 4 different doctors in 3 states.  They all said to take them. Of course, 3 years ago I still had a mild heart attack which led to quad bypass.


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## AprilT (Jun 3, 2016)

I stopped taking my BP meds and just control it with diet. I didn't like the side effects from the medicine they prescribed; seems my changes in the diet worked better anyway.


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## Buckeye (Jun 3, 2016)

AprilT said:


> I stopped taking my BP meds and just control it with diet. I didn't like the side effects from the medicine they prescribed; seems my changes in the diet worked better anyway.



My hat's off to you!  I wish I could do the same, and have been able to in an on again off again yoyo cycle.  My doctor did offer to super glue my lips shut though.

edit:  This reminded me to take my evening Metoprolol...


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## AprilT (Jun 3, 2016)

Hoot N Annie said:


> My hat's off to you!  I wish I could do the same, and have been able to in an on again off again yoyo cycle.  My doctor did offer to super glue my lips shut though.
> 
> edit:  This reminded me to take my evening Metoprolol...



Oh I'm not always so disciplined, I manage to mess it up some times and my weight fluctuates no matter what due to other medicine I have no choice but to take. Sigh.


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