# Why do the vaccine arguments continue?



## Sunny (Jun 18, 2022)

OK, the disease has been with us for about 2 1/2 years.  Most people are vaccinated.  A tragic number died of Covid before there was a vaccine.  People are continuing to die, overwhelmingly those who have not been vaccinated. (Die of Covid, I mean. Obviously, people continue to die of all sorts of other things. Even vaccinated people can get cancer, strokes, etc.)

For pretty much every other infectious disease, we have vaccines, or are developing them. Most people get the vaccines, if they are available to them. Some do not, for various reasons. (Underlying conditions, they don't believe in vaccines, fear of needles, religious beliefs, etc.)  Yet, I have never seen ongoing arguments, often of a very childish nature, about any other disease. We all have our opinions, and as adults we live our lives accordingly.  

You want to remain alive and healthy as long as possible, and avoid getting a terrible disease?  Fine, so you get the vaccine, might have a sore arm for a day or so (or not), and that's the end of the subject.  But with Covid, we get graphs, charts, insults, "proofs" of who is right and who is wrong, and it goes on endlessly. There is apparently nothing that will change the minds of those who have been convinced that this vaccine is somehow a bad thing. It's useless, it's fake, it is being promoted ONLY to make the pharma companies rich, etc.  It would be ludicrous if it weren't so sad.

So, why?  Well, I think the answer is obvious. This is the only disease I can think of that has been so politicized.  And that's what we're really arguing about, isn't it?


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## Don M. (Jun 18, 2022)

A year ago, about the Only thing we saw on the televised news was Covid, Covid, and more Covid.  It seemed that the more this virus was "publicized", the more it became a divisive issue.  In recent months, things like Ukraine and this runaway inflation, etc., have garnered most of the attention on the news.  Now, it seems that most have made up their minds regarding these vaccines, and Covid is no longer a major "talking 
point" for our media.   
Those who accept the scientific evidence continue to get their shots, and follow the guidelines, while those who deny the evidence remain at risk.


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## rgp (Jun 18, 2022)

> We all have our opinions, and as adults we live our lives accordingly.



Exactly, but it appears that you cannot accept that. I, and others will live our lives as we choose , but again it appears that if we choose a way that differs from your opinion / opposes your view , we are somehow less educated ? Less intelligent than you ? And for that reason subject to ridicule & insult from you .

You and some others here seem to be very left leaning , liberal, and democrat . You know the inclusion group, the open minded set, the group that accepts people willingly, openly yet ......... The minute anyone opposes you in opinion ....... they are immediately wrong and again ... subjected to your desdain and ridicule.

I hope that makes you feel really good about yourself ? Because it seems you really need the pat on the back.


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## PamfromTx (Jun 18, 2022)

Sunny said:


> OK, the disease has been with us for about 2 1/2 years.  Most people are vaccinated.  A tragic number died of Covid before there was a vaccine.  People are continuing to die, overwhelmingly those who have not been vaccinated. (Die of Covid, I mean. Obviously, people continue to die of all sorts of other things. Even vaccinated people can get cancer, strokes, etc.)
> 
> For pretty much every other infectious disease, we have vaccines, or are developing them. Most people get the vaccines, if they are available to them. Some do not, for various reasons. (Underlying conditions, they don't believe in vaccines, fear of needles, religious beliefs, etc.)  Yet, I have never seen ongoing arguments, often of a very childish nature, about any other disease. We all have our opinions, and as adults we live our lives accordingly.
> 
> ...


Great post!


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 18, 2022)

Sunny said:


> OK, the disease has been with us for about 2 1/2 years.  Most people are vaccinated.  A tragic number died of Covid before there was a vaccine.  People are continuing to die, overwhelmingly those who have not been vaccinated. (Die of Covid, I mean. Obviously, people continue to die of all sorts of other things. Even vaccinated people can get cancer, strokes, etc.)
> 
> For pretty much every other infectious disease, we have vaccines, or are developing them. Most people get the vaccines, if they are available to them. Some do not, for various reasons. (Underlying conditions, they don't believe in vaccines, fear of needles, religious beliefs, etc.)  Yet, I have never seen ongoing arguments, often of a very childish nature, about any other disease. We all have our opinions, and as adults we live our lives accordingly.
> 
> ...


You hit the nail on the head in the last paragraph, obvious to all.


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## Lavinia (Jun 18, 2022)

This particular virus differs from previous ones in that it has so many symptoms. Some people are still not sure whether they have actually had it or not. Now it has mutated again and there is another outbreak starting up. There is confusion over the vaccine....does it work or not....is it worth the risk?
 It's no wonder that it is causing such disruption to our lives. People should not be condemned for being cautious....even the medical people don't know the full facts about it.


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 18, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Those who accept the scientific evidence continue to get their shots, and follow the guidelines, while those who deny the evidence remain at risk.


Yes, my husband and I have been fully vaccinated and boosted, as many of our neighbors, friends and relatives.  We are glad the vaccines were available and we didn't get sick or die from the deadly worldwide virus like so many others have.   I feel strongly that if more people acted responsibly and got vaccinated sooner, the country would be in better shape today and there wouldn't have been so many dead from this virus.  Rest in peace to all those who lost their lives during this pandemic.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 18, 2022)

Political division aside, the main argument has been DNA vaccines ~vs~ MRNA vaccines.

Respectively, a vaccine that's been tested over decades and is reasonably predictable that uses the whole virus, dead or living, and a vaccine that contains a very briefly tested single-stranded molecule of RNA and only a tiny portion of the virus. No one knows for certain what the long term effects of the latter might be. And now it's been approved for infants and children, and I'm sure that's why people are still arguing about it....or arguing again.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

Sunny said:


> This is the only disease I can think of that has been so politicized. And that's what we're really arguing about, isn't it?


How did the sickness industry get such power over all the public, worldwide ?  deception.

Cancer was "politicized" almost a century ago,  and it was made illegal for licensed doctors in the usa to tell people the truth about that.  So millions suffer needlessly.

Not much to argue about if you trust the gov and medics though.

If you care,  get a copy of the book still available on ebay etc as far as I know - 
"Nutrition the Cancer Answer" - how licensed and unlicensed doctors cured cancer easily before it became illegal to do so.   It still works,  but quietly for the professionals.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> No one knows for certain what the long term effects of the latter might be.


If ten percent of the reports all over the world are true,  death.   Young Healthy Athletes, and other persons without previous problems,  die/d/ suddenly,  after getting jabbed.


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## Alligatorob (Jun 18, 2022)

I suspect Covid will go the way of the flu.  Vaccines available, proven effective, but not 100%.  Some people will choose to get them, some won't.  That ain't going to change.


Just Jeff said:


> Young Healthy Athletes, and other persons without previous problems, die/d/ suddenly, after getting jabbed.


Sure it happens, but very rarely.  Large population studies continue to show that your risks are lower with the vaccine than without.  Risks either way, best data shows lower risk with than without.


Murrmurr said:


> No one knows for certain what the long term effects of the latter might be.


The same could be said for many things in life, not just medicines.  I don't see any reason this one should be of especially great concern, but I do understand others worry.  Probably the best reason I have heard for not getting vaccinated.  I don't agree, but then I have not always been right!


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## Nathan (Jun 18, 2022)

Sunny said:


> Why do the vaccine arguments continue?
> So, why?  Well, I think the answer is obvious. This is the only disease I can think of that has been so politicized.  And that's what we're really arguing about, isn't it?


A sizable portion of the populace have become "experts" in numerous fields since Google Search, and for reasons of promoting their own self-esteem they choose to attack and discount the actual experts.   Of course certain slanted media seize every opportunity to interject divisive viewpoints to further consolidate their control of their viewership.


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## Sunny (Jun 18, 2022)

Jeff, what is your source of that information about the young, healthy athletes dying suddenly after getting "jabbed?"  That's a word the anti-vaxxers seems to love. Actually, it doesn't feel like a jab, it's more like a gentle poke that you barely feel. Please show us your source of the information about all these young, healthy people dropping dead from getting the vaccine.

Maybe several people died of a freak allergic reaction, out of all the millions worldwide who got vaccinated. And I'm not even sure of that. I do know that they ask everyone to sit for 15 minutes after receiving the vaccine to make sure there is no allergic reaction, and I'm sure the nurses are trained to counteract it if it happens.  Probably statistics would show that that could happen after any medical procedure. I bet there's a handful of people have died after getting their teeth cleaned!

Lavinia and Murrmurr, I agree that the first people to volunteer for the vaccine were brave souls, as it was all very new; the disease itself was new, and nobody knew anything for sure. Many people did hold off on getting the vaccine but finally the statistics showed them a) how safe it was, and b) how effective it was, so they happily got it. And I think we were right about not jumping in too quickly to vaccinate kids. But considering the risks from the disease, vs. the risks from getting the vaccine, it does seem a no-brainer to me. That little "poke" is probably one of the safest medical procedures you can get.

Just a look at a map of the U.S., and which states objected (and still continue to object) to mask-wearing mandates (ooh, that scary word, "mandate," even though it just means a government requirement), and the statistics on getting the vaccine, and it's pretty obvious what this endless argument is really about.


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 18, 2022)

Nathan said:


> A sizable portion of the populace have become "experts" in numerous fields since Google Search, and for reasons of promoting their own self-esteem they choose to attack and discount the actual experts.   Of course certain slanted media seize every opportunity to interject divisive viewpoints to further consolidate their control of their viewership.


I agree.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

The "experts" many seem to be trusting, the "political correct" imeciles , are experts at continuing, ongoing deception.

Anyone may be able to research for themselves and find this out clearly.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

Sunny said:


> That little "poke" is probably one of the safest medical procedures you can get.


hahahahaha x billions.

Better to do better research , not just over the last three years, but over the last hundred years, and see if the "experts" told the truth or not.    Easy to find, or used to be, that the fda, cdc, and ama all worked together for power over people, deceiving them, lying, yes outright lies since about wwII.


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## Nathan (Jun 18, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> The "experts" many seem to be trusting, the "political correct" imeciles , are experts at continuing, ongoing deception.
> 
> Anyone may be able to research for themselves and find this out clearly.



Sounds like a sensitive issue for you.  what exactly is/are  "political correct" imecile(s) in your world, what does that mean?


Just Jeff said:


> hahahahaha x billions.
> 
> Better to do better research , not just over the last three years, but over the last hundred years, and see if the "experts" told the truth or not.    Easy to find, or used to be, that the fda, cdc, and ama all worked together for power over people, deceiving them, lying, yes outright lies since about wwII.



Edit: never mind, saw your last post, pretty much explains where you're coming from.


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## win231 (Jun 18, 2022)

Sunny said:


> OK, the disease has been with us for about 2 1/2 years.  Most people are vaccinated.  A tragic number died of Covid before there was a vaccine.  People are continuing to die, overwhelmingly those who have not been vaccinated. (Die of Covid, I mean. Obviously, people continue to die of all sorts of other things. Even vaccinated people can get cancer, strokes, etc.)
> 
> For pretty much every other infectious disease, we have vaccines, or are developing them. Most people get the vaccines, if they are available to them. Some do not, for various reasons. (Underlying conditions, they don't believe in vaccines, fear of needles, religious beliefs, etc.)  Yet, I have never seen ongoing arguments, often of a very childish nature, about any other disease. We all have our opinions, and as adults we live our lives accordingly.
> 
> ...


Better questions:
1.   Why do you feel the need to repeatedly reassure yourself that you made the right decision to get vaccinated?
2.   Why do you feel the need to ridicule those who didn't make the same decision you made?  Especially since the health decisions of others ain't none of your business.
3.   Why don't people who choose not to get vaccinated feel the same need to ridicule those who choose to get vaccinated?
It doesn't matter to me who's vaccinated & who isn't.  It's _their _decision; not mine.  And not yours.  You waste lots of energy by being obsessed with the health decisions of others.
4.  * You *are a shining example of the  _"Childish Nature"_ you speak of.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 18, 2022)

Sunny said:


> Murrmurr, I agree that the first people to volunteer for the vaccine were brave souls, as it was all very new; the disease itself was new, and nobody knew anything for sure. Many people did hold off on getting the vaccine but finally the statistics showed them a) how safe it was, and b) how effective it was, so they happily got it. And I think we were right about not jumping in too quickly to vaccinate kids. But considering the risks from the disease, vs. the risks from getting the vaccine, it does seem a no-brainer to me. That little "poke" is probably one of the safest medical procedures you can get.


Healthy children are not at risk of death by covid. Their covid symptoms are relatively mild and short-lived. Data shows that over 50% of children the world over have had covid and are therefore have natural immunity. Children's covid MRNA vaccine is effective for 6weeks to 8 weeks, according to Pfizer.

Only children with obesity, juvenile diabetes, severe asthma and other respiratory disease and other co-morbidity known to cause severe covid symptoms and possibly death should be given or considered for the covid vaccine. The only children who have died from covid had severe underlying medical conditions including the ones I mentioned. The majority were either asymptomatic or had very mild symptoms.

It is absolutely unknown whether or not the MRNA vaccine will cause long-term side effects because only time will tell; years, possibly decades. It _is_ known that a concerning percentage of young men and boys age 14 to 24 have had 2 or more cardiac issues, usually after the 2nd vaccine, "extremely likely" caused by the vaccine, and that the effectiveness of the vaccine is limited and protection wanes rather quickly.

I was vaccinated and got 1 booster (and I'm done), but if I still had young kids, and they were healthy, I would choose to not get them vaccinated.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 18, 2022)

Nathan said:


> A sizable portion of the populace have become "experts" in numerous fields since Google Search, and for reasons of promoting their own self-esteem they choose to attack and discount the actual experts.   Of course certain slanted media seize every opportunity to interject divisive viewpoints to further consolidate their control of their viewership.


However, there are very good sources online. NIH, Nature Science and a dozen other revered medical journals, World in Data, various university virology labs, and numerous researchers and virologists all over the world. None of which are particularly interested in politics.

Doesn't make one an expert, only well-informed.


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## Nathan (Jun 18, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> However, there are very good sources online. NIH, Nature Science and a dozen other revered medical journals, World in Data, various university virology labs, and numerous researchers and virologists all over the world. None of which are particularly interested in politics.
> 
> Doesn't make one an expert, only well-informed.


Absolutely, agree 100%.   I spend most of my time online researching medical topics, or other technical matters.   What matters is seeking facts, and not cherry-picking Google search for material to support one's own pet viewpoint.

For the record: I personally don't believe that anyone on this forum is advocating to blindly adhere to what experts say. As such, this is my position.


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## SeniorBen (Jun 18, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> However, there are very good sources online. NIH, Nature Science and a dozen other revered medical journals, World in Data, various university virology labs, and numerous researchers and virologists all over the world. None of which are particularly interested in politics.
> 
> Doesn't make one an expert, only well-informed.


None of those sources you listed claim that the pandemic is a hoax, so they must have a liberal bias.


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## Bella (Jun 18, 2022)

Perhaps there are some people who might find this article from the NIH National Library of Medicine—National Center for Biotechnology Information interesting.

*COVID UPDATE: What is the truth? * By Dr. Russell Blaylock, a nationally recognized, board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.   >>  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9062939/ 


Bella


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

Bella said:


> *Perhaps there are some people* who might find this article from the NIH National Library of Medicine—National Center for Biotechnology *Information interesting.
> 
> COVID UPDATE: What is the truth? * By Dr. Russell Blaylock, a nationally recognized, board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.   >>  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9062939/
> 
> ...


If they are searching for the truth themselves, still,  and have not given in to the ridiculous stories from the profit-mongers in gov, medicine, pharma, corporations, banks, schools, and so on.... 
Most people, according to history, according to the puboic reactions/attitudes the last three years,  and according to all Scripture,  do noot care for nor ever even seek the truth, but aer content and blindly following the blind, believing the misinformation broadcast over all media overwhelmingly,  with trillions of dollars directing the direction instead of what is right or true.

"The COVID-19 pandemic is one of the most manipulated infectious disease events in history, characterized by official lies in an unending stream lead by government bureaucracies, medical associations, medical boards, the media, and international agencies.[3,6,57] We have witnessed a long list of unprecedented intrusions into medical practice, including attacks on medical experts, destruction of medical careers among doctors refusing to participate in killing their patients and a massive regimentation of health care, led by non-qualified individuals with enormous wealth, power and influence."


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## win231 (Jun 18, 2022)

Another reason the "Vaccine Arguments" continue:
People who are vaccinated keep getting Covid.
That causes the intelligent thinkers among us to question the vaccine's usefulness.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

win231 said:


> Another reason the "Vaccine Arguments" continue:
> People who are vaccinated keep getting Covid.
> That causes the intelligent thinkers among us to question the vaccine's usefulness.


And the results worldwide?   People who got the jab keep dying.  

Yes, others die also,  but why play russian roulette with a jab that is known to break the immune system and attack your own organs eventually ?


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## Murrmurr (Jun 18, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> "The COVID-19 pandemic is one of the most manipulated infectious disease events in history, characterized by *official lies* in an unending stream lead by government bureaucracies, medical associations, medical boards, the media, and international agencies.[3,6,57] We have witnessed a long list of unprecedented intrusions into medical practice, including attacks on medical experts, destruction of medical careers among doctors refusing to participate in killing their patients and a massive regimentation of health care, led by non-qualified individuals with enormous wealth, power and influence."


This ^ is true, and of course it's caused widespread confusion and derision. Not only lies from non-medical people, manipulated studies and data from corporations that stand to make a fortune, and intentionally misleading headlines from the media, but also, as you pointed out, silencing people trying to share certain facts, data, and serious concerns.

Unfortunately, we've had to slosh through tons of published research, like @Nathan said, and even do a deep dive into who funded this study and that research. It's a task a lot of average people don't have time for, and some of it's really hard to understand. This is the first time people have had to bother with all that, so it's no surprise there's so much arguing going on.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 18, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> (me: *No one knows for certain what the long term effects .. might be*.)
> 
> The same could be said for many things in life, not just medicines.  I don't see any reason this one should be of especially great concern, but I do understand others worry.  Probably the best reason I have heard for not getting vaccinated. * I don't agree, but then I have not always been right!*


You don't agree that no one knows for sure about the long term effects? There's no way to know until some time has past. In fact, an added benefit of tracking covid and keeping better-than-ever record-keeping is that it will be a huge help in finding and studying any side effects that might start popping up in the future.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

When, as it is, the short term effects are increased death,  increased health problems, tremendously higher costs,  why be concerned any with long term effects ?   It will be the same long term and worse - increased death,  increased health problems and extremely high monetary costs.


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 18, 2022)

Bella said:


> Perhaps there are some people who might find this article from the NIH National Library of Medicine—National Center for Biotechnology Information interesting.
> 
> *COVID UPDATE: What is the truth? * By Dr. Russell Blaylock, a nationally recognized, board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.   >>  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9062939/
> 
> ...


And perhaps some people might find this article about Blaylock interesting.  Pointing back of course to the last paragraph in the original post of this thread by @Sunny.  
https://geneticliteracyproject.org/glp-facts/russell-blaylock/


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## Bella (Jun 18, 2022)

SeaBreeze said:


> *And perhaps some people might find this article about Blaylock interesting.*  Pointing back of course to the last paragraph in the original post of this thread by @Sunny.
> https://geneticliteracyproject.org/glp-facts/russell-blaylock/


Perhaps they will, lol. 

Bella


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

"he blamed the media for ‘hyping disaster’:"

Perhaps the doctors and politicians should be blamed more,  or bigfarm ?


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 18, 2022)

Bella said:


> Perhaps they will,* lol. *
> 
> Bella


Hilarious.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

"The Genetic Literacy Project is *a corporate front group* that was formerly funded by Monsanto."

Apparently it was always defending the poisoning of America, the food supply and the soil and water, etc, 
and probably if not definitely biological dangerous foods etc etc etc 

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Genetic_Literacy_Project


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## Murrmurr (Jun 18, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> When, as it is, the short term effects are increased death,  increased health problems, tremendously higher costs,  why be concerned any with long term effects ?   It will be the same long term and worse - increased death,  increased health problems and extremely high monetary costs.


It's true that out of billions of vaccinated people, a small but not insignificant percentage have died. Their deaths are being studied for specific causes on a cellular level to find out exactly why these people's bodies responded the way they did, and if there's a commonality among the people who died and those who acquired similar health issues and etc, so they can determine who should absolutely not get that particular vaccine, and even exactly how to improve the vaccine.

We usually have these serious issues ironed out _before_ a vaccine is approved for the public.


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## dseag2 (Jun 18, 2022)

Sunny said:


> OK, the disease has been with us for about 2 1/2 years.  Most people are vaccinated.  A tragic number died of Covid before there was a vaccine.  People are continuing to die, overwhelmingly those who have not been vaccinated. (Die of Covid, I mean. Obviously, people continue to die of all sorts of other things. Even vaccinated people can get cancer, strokes, etc.)
> 
> For pretty much every other infectious disease, we have vaccines, or are developing them. Most people get the vaccines, if they are available to them. Some do not, for various reasons. (Underlying conditions, they don't believe in vaccines, fear of needles, religious beliefs, etc.)  Yet, I have never seen ongoing arguments, often of a very childish nature, about any other disease. We all have our opinions, and as adults we live our lives accordingly.
> 
> ...


You are a brave soul to bring up this topic again.  I agree with you but don't wish to get into the Covid arguments I got into previously.  I will just sit back and watch as everyone pontificates about their beliefs.  As I've said before, I don't think anyone in this forum is going to change the minds of anyone else who has made a decision re: Covid, science, vaccines, etc.  

I've looked for more common interests and have found that there are members that may have opposing views about the vaccines but are on the same page on many other topics.  I will respond to them in those threads.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> You are a brave soul to bring up this topic again.


Just what kind of person thinks it is brave to try to persuade other people to engage in russian roulette ?


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## Alligatorob (Jun 18, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I don't think anyone in this forum is going to change the minds of anyone else who has made a decision re: Covid, science, vaccines, etc.


A point well proven!

Actually some of the discussion here has changed my mind a little on some things.  

After reading what people were saying about masks, I looked to some of the underlying data and studies and became convinced that mask wearing provides only marginal protection to a healthy person.  However a sick person wearing a mask does provide protection to the healthy.  Before reading these threads I had thought that mask wearing protected all, and provided more protection than they do.  As a result I do wear a mask when I am sick or think I might be, but not at other times unless its required.

I have also developed a better understanding of folks who are against vaccination.  I still think they are wrong, but I am less likely to judge now.  

But nothing here has changed my mind about getting the vaccination.  Probably few people have.  It would be interesting to hear from someone who's mind has changed.  Either way.


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## SeniorBen (Jun 18, 2022)

Bella said:


> Perhaps there are some people who might find this article from the NIH National Library of Medicine—National Center for Biotechnology Information interesting.
> 
> *COVID UPDATE: What is the truth? * By Dr. Russell Blaylock, a nationally recognized, board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.   >>  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9062939/
> 
> ...


But although the editorial is published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, it provides no solid scientific evidence to back up its claims, only unfiltered conjecture from its author, according to Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz, PhD, an epidemiologist with the University of Wollongong in Australia.

Meyerowitz-Katz wrote a Twitter thread outlining his concerns with the editorial, calling the piece "bizarre" and "astonishingly unscientific." The epidemiologist told MedPage Today that many of the papers cited in the editorial actually disagree with the points made in the editorial.

Additionally, Meyerowitz-Katz noted that the most frequently cited reference in the editorial is anti-vaccine advocate Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s book, The Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health – a source he deemed "obviously not reliable."

Blaylock also links to conspiracy theory blogs, Meyerowitz-Katz said. One quotes Ryan Cole, MD, a pathologist in Idaho under fire for spreading COVID misinformation, as seeing a "dramatic spike" in aggressive cancers among vaccinated individuals but provides no data to support that claim.

Several other references in Blaylock's article are to items by physicians infamous for spreading COVID misinformation, being active in political movements, and speaking at conservative rallies, such as Peter McCullough, MD, Pierre Kory, MD, Meryl Nass, MD, and Joseph Mercola, DO, to name a few.

"While Dr. Blaylock is, of course, entitled to his opinion, this is supported in the article largely by low-quality sources that completely lack credibility or simply do not support his argument," Meyerowitz-Katz said. "Much of the editorial is supported by no references at all and simply represents the author's own views."

Blaylock has a history of spreading misinformation in the nutrition world, claiming that certain food additives are "excitotoxic" to the brain in normal doses. Many have credited the former neurosurgeon for starting the health scare around monosodium glutamate (MSG), after he wrote in his 1994 book, Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills, that it could be linked to brain damage and neurodegenerative diseases.

The physician has also historically opposed vaccines, notably stating that the swine flu was a human-made virus, and promoting cold showers as a remedy to counter the "dangerous effects" of the H1N1 vaccine.

Blaylock currently sells supplements called "Brain Repair Formula" and writes for the conservative news outlet Newsmax. He also serves as associate editor of the neuroinflammation section of Surgical Neurology International.

That journal is an "independent publication that is not affiliated with any society or organization," according to the journal website. It was established in 2010, and is published by Scientific Scholar.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/98940


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## SeniorBen (Jun 18, 2022)

SeaBreeze said:


> And perhaps some people might find this article about Blaylock interesting.  Pointing back of course to the last paragraph in the original post of this thread by @Sunny.
> https://geneticliteracyproject.org/glp-facts/russell-blaylock/


Blaylock is a nut.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> But nothing here has changed my mind about getting the vaccination. Probably few people have. It would be interesting to hear from someone who's mind has changed. Either way.


Decades ago I was unbelievably /with what was known then/  pro-pharmacy,  studied and worked in four hospitals pharmacies,  and did not know anything at first about the deception going on every day.

Gradually,  over about four years time,  while working in pharmacy,  I asked enough questions of those working in pharmacy field,  pharmacists, techs, and representatives,  and discovered from them,  from the people making their living in pharmacy,  that they wanted the 'great' amount of money they were paid more than they wanted to help people.  They ALL said yes,  they want the money more than telling the truth,  every one of them at the time. 

So ,  I got out.  And never looked back.    I was the only one out of many who did not want the money at the cost of lying every day,  the cost of hiding the truth from all the patients and everyone else regarding the rightness or the effectiveness of drugs.   

It surprised me greatly that most people don't care,  and they never look into finding the truth about drugs, nor the history of pharmacy.  

It was and still is a great joy to meet others who did care, who did find out,  and who know the complete corruption of the drug makers is not only deceiving the whole world,    
they are simple or courageous enough to tell the truth and not to go along with the lies.  

For almost a century,  the evidence is overwhelming of the deceptiveness of the drug makers and drug promoters.


----------



## Ruthanne (Jun 18, 2022)

All I can say is that I'm glad I have not been paying attention to the arguments here!


----------



## Bella (Jun 18, 2022)

Gimme Some Truth - John Lennon​




https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/money for old rope

Bella


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> All I can say is that I'm glad I have not been paying attention to the arguments here!


The Truth Has Not Changed In A Hundred Years/  Actually Ever.  

The Internet is No Place to Trust,  Just Like People Everywhere,   Mostly In Error Every Day.

The Best To Hope For For Anyone Is That They Will Start To Look For Truth,  and Keep Looking.


----------



## Ruthanne (Jun 18, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> The Truth Has Not Changed In A Hundred Years/  Actually Ever.
> 
> The Internet is No Place to Trust,  Just Like People Everywhere,   Mostly In Error Every Day.
> 
> The Best To Hope For For Anyone Is That They Will Start To Look For Truth,  and Keep Looking.


Cool buddy


----------



## Sunny (Jun 19, 2022)

SeaBreeze said:


> And perhaps some people might find this article about Blaylock interesting.  Pointing back of course to the last paragraph in the original post of this thread by @Sunny.
> https://geneticliteracyproject.org/glp-facts/russell-blaylock/


Fascinating article, SeaBreeze!  And the Medical Quack of the Year award goes to....  

Thanks for sharing it!


----------



## JaniceM (Jun 19, 2022)

Sunny said:


> So, why?  Well, I think the answer is obvious. This is the only disease I can think of that has been so politicized.  And that's what we're really arguing about, isn't it?


or maybe because many simply want/need to argue in general, and it's currently a popular topic?  
(just guessing at this)


----------



## chic (Jun 19, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Political division aside, the main argument has been DNA vaccines ~vs~ MRNA vaccines.
> 
> Respectively, a vaccine that's been tested over decades and is reasonably predictable that uses the whole virus, dead or living, and a vaccine that contains a very briefly tested single-stranded molecule of RNA and only a tiny portion of the virus. No one knows for certain what the long term effects of the latter might be. And now it's been approved for infants and children, and I'm sure that's why people are still arguing about it....or arguing again.


Bingo and it goes on and on.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jun 19, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> Decades ago I was unbelievably /with what was known then/  pro-pharmacy,  studied and worked in four hospitals pharmacies,  and did not know anything at first about the deception going on every day.
> 
> Gradually,  over about four years time,  while working in pharmacy,  I asked enough questions of those working in pharmacy field,  pharmacists, techs, and representatives,  and discovered from them,  from the people making their living in pharmacy,  that they wanted the 'great' amount of money they were paid more than they wanted to help people.  They ALL said yes,  they want the money more than telling the truth,  every one of them at the time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to respond Jeff.

Do you believe that many or most prescribed drugs have little value? 

In my own, quite limited, experience I believe I have benefited from the drugs I have been prescribed.  Mostly antibiotics and the occasional pain killer.  The only prescription drug I take regularly is meloxicam for arthritis.  I am quite sure it gives me relief.


----------



## Buckeye (Jun 19, 2022)

Thank goodness I've been stabbed, jabbed, and boosterized, but I keep forgetting to get the second booster.  That will be my #1 task for the coming week.  I think I can schedule it at Publix online.

At my age, I can't be too careful...


----------



## AnnieA (Jun 19, 2022)

To answer the OP specifically in reference to Senior Forums  ...because people keep starting new threads about it, maybe?  Covid-19 variants will never go away but the deadly pandemic is over.  Take a deep breath...literally and figuratively... and move on.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jun 19, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> second booster


I had the second a few months ago.  People here are getting third boosters now.  

Not sure if I will, not yet anyway.  I am hoping for an updated vaccine.


----------



## Michael Z (Jun 20, 2022)

There is no doubt in my mind that money is clouding the issue. Pfizer has a track record for this. See https://www.cbsnews.com/news/10-amazing-facts-about-pfizers-23b-bextra-settlement/


----------



## rgp (Jun 20, 2022)

Michael Z said:


> There is no doubt in my mind that money is clouding the issue. Pfizer has a track record for this. See https://www.cbsnews.com/news/10-amazing-facts-about-pfizers-23b-bextra-settlement/



 Go back and look at the financial health / stock price, of the Vaccine companies_* before*_ the pandemic and compare it to now .


----------



## Sunny (Jun 20, 2022)

So, even if you are in danger of death or disability from a hideous, and often fatal disease, and there was a very effective vaccine against that disease available to you free of charge (all of which is true), you would refuse the vaccine because you are primarily interested in the stock price of the company? Stopping the company from making a profit is more important than stopping a disease that brought the world to a screeching halt, at least it did before the vaccine came along?

Or, to look at it another way, what was the stock of the Ford Motor Co. worth, before the automobile was invented?  What was the stock of Amazon, Google, or Apple worth before modern technology came along?

Maybe not a 100% perfect comparison, because those other companies aren't actually saving lives, where the pharmaceutical companies are. That's not to say the pharma companies are perfect. They did make plenty of money off the opiods also.  But hard as the politicians and quack doctors may try, I can't see anything wrong with rewarding the companies that developed and are manufacturing this vaccine.  Throwing their stock prices or financial health into the mix is what's known as a red herring.


----------



## rgp (Jun 20, 2022)

Sunny said:


> So, even if you are in danger of death or disability from a hideous, and often fatal disease, and there was a very effective vaccine against that disease available to you free of charge (all of which is true), you would refuse the vaccine because you are primarily interested in the stock price of the company? Stopping the company from making a profit is more important than stopping a disease that brought the world to a screeching halt, at least it did before the vaccine came along?
> 
> Or, to look at it another way, what was the stock of the Ford Motor Co. worth, before the automobile was invented?  What was the stock of Amazon, Google, or Apple worth before modern technology came along?
> 
> Maybe not a 100% perfect comparison, because those other companies aren't actually saving lives, where the pharmaceutical companies are. That's not to say the pharma companies are perfect. They did make plenty of money off the opiods also.  But hard as the politicians and quack doctors may try, I can't see anything wrong with rewarding the companies that developed and are manufacturing this vaccine.  Throwing their stock prices or financial health into the mix is what's known as a red herring.



  "you would refuse the vaccine because you are primarily interested in the stock price of the company?"

I never said i was primarily interested in anything ...... I merely pointed out that it is a point to consider.  


Sunny said:


> So, even if you are in danger of death or disability from a hideous, and often fatal disease, and there was a very effective vaccine against that disease available to you free of charge (all of which is true), you would refuse the vaccine because you are primarily interested in the stock price of the company? Stopping the company from making a profit is more important than stopping a disease that brought the world to a screeching halt, at least it did before the vaccine came along?
> 
> Or, to look at it another way, what was the stock of the Ford Motor Co. worth, before the automobile was invented?  What was the stock of Amazon, Google, or Apple worth before modern technology came along?
> 
> Maybe not a 100% perfect comparison, because those other companies aren't actually saving lives, where the pharmaceutical companies are. That's not to say the pharma companies are perfect. They did make plenty of money off the opiods also.  But hard as the politicians and quack doctors may try, I can't see anything wrong with rewarding the companies that developed and are manufacturing this vaccine.  Throwing their stock prices or financial health into the mix is what's known as a red herring.


 First off ....... I never said I was interested in anything like that ..... I merely pointed it out as a point to be considered .


Sunny said:


> So, even if you are in danger of death or disability from a hideous, and often fatal disease, and there was a very effective vaccine against that disease available to you free of charge (all of which is true), you would refuse the vaccine because you are primarily interested in the stock price of the company? Stopping the company from making a profit is more important than stopping a disease that brought the world to a screeching halt, at least it did before the vaccine came along?
> 
> Or, to look at it another way, what was the stock of the Ford Motor Co. worth, before the automobile was invented?  What was the stock of Amazon, Google, or Apple worth before modern technology came along?
> 
> Maybe not a 100% perfect comparison, because those other companies aren't actually saving lives, where the pharmaceutical companies are. That's not to say the pharma companies are perfect. They did make plenty of money off the opiods also.  But hard as the politicians and quack doctors may try, I can't see anything wrong with rewarding the companies that developed and are manufacturing this vaccine.  Throwing their stock prices or financial health into the mix is what's known as a red herring.



   "Or, to look at it another way, what was the stock of the Ford Motor Co. worth, before the automobile was invented?  What was the stock of Amazon, Google, or Apple worth before modern technology came along?"

 Apples & Oranges comparison as these companies were making many medicines before the pandemic ....... It was not a "new" industry at all. Where as the Ford Motor Co, was part of a whole new industry  just starting .


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 20, 2022)

Michael Z said:


> There is no doubt in my mind that money is clouding the issue. Pfizer has a track record for this. See https://www.cbsnews.com/news/10-amazing-facts-about-pfizers-23b-bextra-settlement/


Because of money, proven motive and driving force of the totally greedy corporations especially pharma,  

just like and worse than nazi germ, 

the truth is forgotten, and not even desired nor sought by the public/ programmed robots.

Details like this were available for over a hundred years about the malfeasance or distrusted druglords >

From the 'amazing' link which is not a new event in pharmaworld, expose's having been known all of our lives >>

"Former sales manager *Thomas Farina*, who led a team of sales reps in Brooklyn who promoted Bextra off-label, is about one and a half months into a six-month sentence of home confinement with an electronic ankle bracelet for his role in the case.







Farina's team was called "the Highlanders" -- a reference to a movie and TV show about a cult of immortals living secretly


*among us who must kill or be killed*. _Farina signed his emails, "There can be only one," a reference to the motto of the show."_


----------



## SeniorBen (Jun 20, 2022)

There's a lot of money to be made spreading misinformation. Here's an article about it:

*Spreading vaccine fears. And cashing in.*
Meet the influencers making millions by dealing doubt about the coronavirus vaccines. 
https://publicintegrity.org/health/...lity/spreading-fears-cashing-in-anti-vaccine/

*Majority of Covid misinformation came from 12 people, report finds*
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/covid-misinformation-conspiracy-theories-ccdh-report


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 20, 2022)

There is TONS MORE MONEY going to the druglords and politicians resetting the world financial and drug empires.

The truth seekers might find lies on those doing expose's also,  

but that does not undo nor negate the lies foisted on the gullible public by the druglords.


----------



## Sunny (Jun 20, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> There's a lot of money to be made spreading misinformation. Here's an article about it:
> 
> *Spreading vaccine fears. And cashing in.*
> Meet the influencers making millions by dealing doubt about the coronavirus vaccines.
> ...


That's fascinating, Ben. And why am I not surprised?


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 20, 2022)

Gullibility  continued ?


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 20, 2022)

Why argument continues ? 

If the drugmakers ever told the truth, 

they'd be out of business yes, and likely will be subject to prosecution (hopefully), 

*but the arguments would stop.*


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## rgp (Jun 21, 2022)

Actually ..... I don't understand why they started in the first place ? 

I made my decision back when it all started ......... What I decided is really no ones business , and no one has a right to tell me what to do with _*MY*_ body.

So, why ? all the arguments. 

If a person feels safe taking all the precutions ? great then that is what they should do for _themselves. _However, if a person feels no threat ? and chooses to  'roll the dice' [so-to-speak] then that is what they should do for theirself_ , _as well.


----------



## oldman (Jun 21, 2022)

It’s like any choice we make in life. We all decide what’s best for us. No one should criticize those that decide to take the vaccine and vice versa. It’s our choice, period. I think each person needs to decide for themselves and not being critical of the other person’s choice.

I have seen the good of the vaccine and I have seen the bad. Nothing that I have seen so far says “take it” or “don’t take it.” I am concerned with the heart issues on some younger men, but I haven’t heard much more about it lately.


----------



## Buckeye (Jun 21, 2022)

Or, maybe sometimes we should do what we decide is best for all of, instead of just ourselves. 

Therein lies the difference.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

No one has provided any results or proof at all that jabs or shutdowns or masks work to even slow down the spread of infection or death.

All the results public published show the opposite.


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> To answer the OP specifically in reference to Senior Forums  ...because people keep starting new threads about it, maybe?  Covid-19 variants will never go away but the deadly pandemic is over.  Take a deep breath...literally and figuratively... and move on.


The very expensive and proven harmful measures taken by gov and med and media are continuing daily.

They never proved a virus was 'dangerous' to most people at all,  just the opposite in fact,  less than three percent would have been possible in danger of the virus harming them, if at all any. 
Instead, most of the world was harmed by governments and medical actions.


----------



## win231 (Jun 21, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Or, maybe sometimes we should do what we decide is best for all of, instead of just ourselves.
> 
> Therein lies the difference.


^^^^ Bingo.  And that includes avoiding what can harm us.


----------



## win231 (Jun 21, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> No one has provided any results or proof at all that jabs or shutdowns or masks work to even slow down the spread of infection or death.
> 
> All the results public published show the opposite.


I'm surprised that more people failed to notice the increased hospitalization & mortality rates reported during the big vaccine push.


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

win231 said:


> ^^^^ Bingo.  And that includes avoiding what can harm us.


....   some people have been able to avoid the politics and the doctors and the hospitals and the clinics,     but not all realized they were being harmed un-necessarily so did not even try to find out a "second opinion" that could have spared them thousands of dollars and years of grief.


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## win231 (Jun 21, 2022)

oldman said:


> It’s like any choice we make in life. We all decide what’s best for us. No one should criticize those that decide to take the vaccine and vice versa. It’s our choice, period. I think each person needs to decide for themselves and not being critical of the other person’s choice.
> 
> I have seen the good of the vaccine and I have seen the bad. Nothing that I have seen so far says “take it” or “don’t take it.” I am concerned with the heart issues on some younger men, but I haven’t heard much more about it lately.


The fear causes many to lose the ability to use such logic.


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

win231 said:


> I'm surprised that more people failed to notice the increased hospitalization & mortality rates reported during the big vaccine push.


Oh,  perhaps most noticed it,  but only in passing,  
as they preferred to live dangerously and believe the tv instead of the facts.


----------



## rgp (Jun 21, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Or, maybe sometimes we should do what we decide is best for all of, instead of just ourselves.
> 
> Therein lies the difference.



  Not when IMO ..... the best for all of us ...... has a distinct possibility of _not_ being best for ourselves . 

As I have said all along, we do not know the actual reason this or that person has chosen as they have. And it is IMO only human nature to do what is best for *ourselves* ...... if that is not the best for everyone ? ...... Oh  well ..... I'm not going to sacrifice myself ........ to protect someone else.


----------



## win231 (Jun 21, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Or, maybe sometimes we should do what we decide is best for all of, instead of just ourselves.
> 
> Therein lies the difference.


That fiction was also used to sell flu shots.  Kaiser hung a huge banner above their entrance:
_"If you don't get your flu shot, you're making others sick."    _Quite amusing, really.


----------



## oldman (Jun 21, 2022)

When I decided to be vaccinated, I thought why not? Seeing how the deaths were starting to pile up, I decided to go for it. Had I still been with the airline, I wouldn’t have had a choice. This is one if the reasons why flights are being cancelled. Pilots and other airline workers were fired for refusing to be vaccinated. That was as smart as firing healthcare workers.


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

oldman said:


> When I decided to be vaccinated, I thought why not? Seeing how the deaths were starting to pile up, I decided to go for it. Had I still been with the airline, I wouldn’t have had a choice. This is one if the reasons why flights are being cancelled. Pilots and other airline workers were fired for refusing to be vaccinated. That was as smart as firing healthcare workers.


"Why not?" 
Many Pilots and other airline workers, and healthcare workers, knew long ago why not - 
the deaths from taking an ineffective harmful jab were already piling up.


----------



## Buckeye (Jun 21, 2022)

rgp said:


> Not when IMO ..... the best for all of us ...... has a distinct possibility of _not_ being best for ourselves .
> 
> As I have said all along, we do not know the actual reason this or that person has chosen as they have. And it is IMO only human nature to do what is best for *ourselves* ...... if that is not the best for everyone ? ...... Oh  well ..... I'm not going to sacrifice myself ........ to protect someone else.


Thank you for your thoughtful response.  The fact is the down side to getting vaxxed is virtually zero.  Claims of thousands dying from the vaxx itself are pure fabrications, and the actual data of death rates of vaxxed versus non-vaxxed from Covid clearly show you are better off being vaxxed.  Plus by getting vaxxed you less likely to need hospitalization should you contract Covid.

That aside, going back over 20 years ago, our family doctor asked if I had my flu shot.  My response was that I never got sick and didn't think I needed one.  At the time my wife was in the early to mid stages of ALS, and the doctor pointed out that, yes, I was healthy and the flu wouldn't do much to me, but if I took it home to Mrs Buckeye it would quickly kill her.  Eye opener for me in several ways.  Our health is about more than just you or me.  It impacts everyone you come in contact with, family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, and the check out clerk at Walmarts.  That is why the government has the authority it does to deal with epidemics, up to requiring vaccination.


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> The fact is the down side to getting vaxxed is virtually zero.


oops....  seem to be skipping the millions made sick or dying ...  no worries,  that won't change just because it was exposed.  The money controls the de-population and deception,  not anyone concerned with anyone's health today.


----------



## oldman (Jun 21, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> "Why not?"
> Many Pilots and other airline workers, and healthcare workers, knew long ago why not -
> the deaths from taking an ineffective harmful jab were already piling up.


Those that took the jab had/has lower death rates than those that did not take the jab. It’s each person’s choice or decision whether to take the jab. I don’t talk it up and I don’t talk against it. I remember a song that had a line in it that stated “We live and die by the choices we make.”


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

www.goodreads.com › book › show › 25344291-dr-andrew-moulden
Dr. Andrew Moulden: Every Vaccine Produces Harm​Canadian physician Dr. *Andrew* Moulden provided 
clear scientific evidence to prove that *every dose of vaccine given to a child or an adult produces harm. *
The truth that he uncovered was rejected by the conventional medical system and the pharmaceutical industry.


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

oldman said:


> Those that took the jab had/has lower death rates than those that did not take the jab.


I do not accept the fake news.


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

oldman said:


> “We live and die by the choices we make.”


Playing Russian Roulette with jabs is not a safe nor wise choice.


----------



## oldman (Jun 21, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> Playing Russian Roulette with jabs is not a safe nor wise choice.


So, your choice is not to take the vaccine. It’s not any concern to me. Do as you please.


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

oldman said:


> So, your choice is not to take the vaccine. It’s not any concern to me. Do as you please.


As you stated before,  good.  But the pharmakeia and its dark forces are not content to leave anyone alone.  They always seek to harm everyone, even in the outback in australia when they can,  by force and by law and by deception every day.


----------



## oldman (Jun 21, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> As you stated before,  good.  But the pharmakeia and its dark forces are not content to leave anyone alone.  They always seek to harm everyone, even in the outback in australia when they can,  by force and by law and by deception every day.


Normally, I don’t debate issues that I know I can’t win, but I know people that take pills for diabetes, cancer, heart issues, liver and kidney problems, aches, pains and the list goes on and are grateful for those medications.

Given the choice, I would rather live with having big pharma then be without big pharma. One of my best friends just got the word yesterday from his cancer doctor that he no longer needs to take Chemo. His cancer is gone, at least for the time being. When he called to tell me, he was actually crying. Sitting in a hospital for 6-8 hours having a needle stuck into his port to have the chemo drug flow into his body and knowing in a day or two he wasn’t going to be feeling his best beats lying on a gurney in the morgue.


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

oldman said:


> Normally, I don’t debate issues that I know I can’t win, but I know people that take pills for diabetes, cancer, heart issues, liver and kidney problems, aches, pains and the list goes on and are grateful for those medications.


Good ?  Instead of debating,  look into how all the doctors used to , or could and did, cure or prevent all those issues.  Without drugs.  Without high cost .  Without side effects.  Without addiction.  Without withdrawal pains.     For decades I've seen all this accomplished  ,   "miraculously"? !   no,  simply.  The way things could be done but the drugmakers prevent even knowledge of this when they can.

Sure the people you know might be grateful ,  but would they still be so grateful if they knew , if they find out,  that the drugs with side effects and which cause more problems were not needed ?

Think about this and do a few years research if you still can.   The older the books you can find ,  bibliographies of Max Gerson, MD,  and Maureen Salaman or her books,
or Adelle Davis's books from the 50's and 60's , 
or "Fit For Life" by the Diamonds,  and thousands of others who managed to prevent or resolve problems without any drugs before the federal laws , by lobbyists of drugmakers,  passed laws stopping most of the people from ever knowing.


----------



## rgp (Jun 22, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Thank you for your thoughtful response.  The fact is the down side to getting vaxxed is virtually zero.  Claims of thousands dying from the vaxx itself are pure fabrications, and the actual data of death rates of vaxxed versus non-vaxxed from Covid clearly show you are better off being vaxxed.  Plus by getting vaxxed you less likely to need hospitalization should you contract Covid.
> 
> That aside, going back over 20 years ago, our family doctor asked if I had my flu shot.  My response was that I never got sick and didn't think I needed one.  At the time my wife was in the early to mid stages of ALS, and the doctor pointed out that, yes, I was healthy and the flu wouldn't do much to me, but if I took it home to Mrs Buckeye it would quickly kill her.  Eye opener for me in several ways.  Our health is about more than just you or me.  It impacts everyone you come in contact with, family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, and the check out clerk at Walmarts.  That is why the government has the authority it does to deal with epidemics, up to requiring vaccination.


 
 "Thank you for your thoughtful response."

 Yeah I caught the dig ....... I don't care.

"The fact is the down side to getting vaxxed is virtually zero. Claims of thousands dying from the vaxx itself are pure fabrications"

 In your opinion.

 Your last paragraph I fully understand ....... fear of taking it home to a loved one.


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## John cycling (Jun 22, 2022)

rgp said:


> fear of taking it home to a loved one.



All big pharma drug pushers are liars, i.e. they'll keep telling you lies until  you eventually believe one.
Personally, I'd be more concerned with reality, meaning the damages caused by injecting and spreading the poisons.


----------



## rgp (Jun 22, 2022)

John cycling said:


> All big pharma drug pushers are liars, i.e. they'll keep telling you lies until  you eventually believe one.
> Personally, I'd be more concerned with reality, meaning the damages caused by injecting and spreading the poisons.



 I agree but ...... If I had a loved one balancing on the edge of good health & death ? I would [in that case] roll the dice perhaps putting myself in danger for the hope of protecting them ........ That said, if a vaccine has hints of a negative effect on me ........ for the chance of joining the masses , to [maybe] protect the masses ? No I would concern myself with myself first.


----------



## Just Jeff (Jun 23, 2022)

John cycling said:


> All big pharma drug pushers are liars, i.e. they'll keep telling you lies until you eventually believe one.


Thank you , yes, this is true,  and clarity results when people, if people realize that big pharma lies all the time, not just a    little lie now and then, nor an 'accidental' lie now and then,  but , for money , for the system,  they always lie.    I found this out directly from them,  not from outsiders,  so I left while everyone else , for money, stayed.   I was the only one out of many in the system at the same time I was, who could not be 'bought off'.


----------



## Sunny (Jun 23, 2022)

> All big pharma drug pushers are liars, i.e. they'll keep telling you lies until you eventually believe one.



I can't resist saying it:  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! I have never seen such a collection of out-and-out lies and b-s in my life. Fortunately, the echo chamber that this discussion has turned into seems to have a very small group of participants, who are bolstering each other with accusations and lies, all totally ridiculous. I say "fortunately" because most of the people on this forum seem to be sane, and get their information from reliable sources, instead of believing and parroting quack "doctors" and politicians who are using their credulousness for their own ends.  Or maybe some of them just like to argue.

So, I guess I got the answer to my original question.  The argument continues because there are none so blind as they who do not want to see.
Aside from that small contingent, everybody else has apparently left this so-called discussion in disgust. And I will join them.

I completely agree with oldman: "Big Pharma" and whatever profits it may be making by saving thousands of lives beats lying on a gurney in the morgue.


----------



## Buckeye (Jun 23, 2022)

rgp said:


> *"Thank you for your thoughtful response."
> 
> Yeah I caught the dig ....... I don't care.*
> 
> ...


There was no "dig" intended, compared to the others your response was reasonable and thoughtful.  Don't know how I could have said it any different.

And no it not just my opinion that the down side to getting vaxxed is virtually zero.  That's what the data shows.  Almost 600 million doses have been adminstered in the US alone, with over 220 million people being fully vaxxed.  World wide, approx 12 Billion doses of the vaccines have been adminstered.  Currently, over 9 million doses a day are being adminstered world wide. 

I ignore the off the wall, nonsensical responses as a matter of habit.


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## win231 (Jun 23, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Thank you for your thoughtful response.  The fact is the down side to getting vaxxed is virtually zero.  Claims of thousands dying from the vaxx itself are pure fabrications, and the actual data of death rates of vaxxed versus non-vaxxed from Covid clearly show you are better off being vaxxed.  Plus by getting vaxxed you less likely to need hospitalization should you contract Covid.
> 
> That aside, going back over 20 years ago, our family doctor asked if I had my flu shot.  My response was that I never got sick and didn't think I needed one.  At the time my wife was in the early to mid stages of ALS, and the doctor pointed out that, yes, I was healthy and the flu wouldn't do much to me, but if I took it home to Mrs Buckeye it would quickly kill her.  Eye opener for me in several ways.  Our health is about more than just you or me.  It impacts everyone you come in contact with, family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, and the check out clerk at Walmarts.  That is why the government has the authority it does to deal with epidemics, up to requiring vaccination.


You neglected to mention something important:
The CDC admitted that the vaccine does not prevent transmission.  So, getting vaccinated has nothing to do with "Protecting Others."
That's nothing more than "Advertising by Guilt."  Kaiser Permanente hangs a similar banner above the entrance:
_"If you don't get your flu shot, you're making other people sick."   _It works - for the gullible.


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## rgp (Jun 23, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> There was no "dig" intended, compared to the others your response was reasonable and thoughtful.  Don't know how I could have said it any different.
> 
> And no it not just my opinion that the down side to getting vaxxed is virtually zero.  That's what the data shows.  Almost 600 million doses have been adminstered in the US alone, with over 220 million people being fully vaxxed.  World wide, approx 12 Billion doses of the vaccines have been adminstered.  Currently, over 9 million doses a day are being adminstered world wide.
> 
> I ignore the off the wall, nonsensical responses as a matter of habit.



 "There was no "dig" intended, compared to the others your response was reasonable and thoughtful. Don't know how I could have said it any different."

  Then i got it wrong ..... my apologies 

 I just do not believe the "no down side" reports . Lost a friend 1 week after being vaccinated , a robust 61 yr/old man. He & his S/O both got the vax, and one week after, they were both in ICU ........ He never came out , she was in for about one month, and has all sort of "after" problems.

 My cardiologist advised me to stay away from it, and stay home .... which is what I did.

As I said, it is IMO a very personal thing regarding our health ...... My "advice" is that eeryone do, what they feel they need for themselves and i really hope for them that their choice is correct . 

I insult no one for their choice , and do not understand those that do.


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## Bella (Jun 23, 2022)

rgp said:


> I insult no one for their choice , and do not understand those that do.


I don't participate in discussions to insult others, be insulted, or be told I'm wrong for expressing my opinion. After the ridiculing and insulting responses I've read here, I will no longer respond to any threads about COVID-19 or vaccinations. I will also not respond to those who have mocked and insulted others.

Bella


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 23, 2022)

Sunny said:


> I can't resist saying it:  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! I have never seen such a collection of out-and-out lies and b-s in my life. Fortunately, the echo chamber that this discussion has turned into seems to have a very small group of participants, who are bolstering each other with accusations and lies, all totally ridiculous. I say "fortunately" because most of the people on this forum seem to be sane, and get their information from reliable sources, instead of believing and parroting quack "doctors" and politicians who are using their credulousness for their own ends.  Or maybe some of them just like to argue.
> 
> So, I guess I got the answer to my original question.  The argument continues because there are none so blind as they who do not want to see.
> Aside from that small contingent, everybody else has apparently left this so-called discussion in disgust. And I will join them.
> ...


I couldn't agree more Sunny.  This has become a poster board for anti-vaxxers who listen to quack doctors only and spread lies and conspiracies here.  I know of another forum where they banned the disinformation people because their lies might be harmful to the readers during a deadly worldwide pandemic.  These folks come in groups of like minded people who are also easily manipulated and gullible.  Thankfully the majority of us can see through the nonsense and ignore it.  I've had two vaccines and two boosters so far, and will get another if recommended.

I also agree that the pharmaceutical companies who produced these life saving vaccines for Covid-19 deserved to be compensated for their work.  Many Americans who have been provided with easy access to vaccines and boosters are grateful for them.  Many have died and are no longer with us because they couldn't get the vaccine or refused to.

I will be leaving the thread also, they can talk to each other and nod their heads all day.


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