# Computer Security Question



## fmdog44 (Jan 4, 2020)

If I create a doc then print it and immediately delete it without saving it does it still exist in somewhere in my computer?


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## Pepper (Jan 4, 2020)

Google says Yes.


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## Ruthanne (Jan 4, 2020)

I think our computers save a default version of everything.


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## kburra (Jan 4, 2020)

Nothing is actually deleted from your PC when clicking DELETE or recycle bin..it will get written over in time, but remnants can still be retrieved by using FORENSIC software, that is why you see police removing Computers from peoples homes after a raid....but to anyone else, without that software, you can consider it gone.

In essence, emptying the trash leaves your document "right there" but "out of reach." to you.

*Preventing recovery of deleted documents*
On the other hand, if you really need to be sure that, say, a deleted confidential document can not be recovered in this way by someone else, you'll need to use another kind of program designed to scrub all the unused chunks on your disk, making recovery of deleted documents impossible (except perhaps by the FBI or NSA). This is called "erasing the free space."


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## Ruthanne (Jan 4, 2020)

kburra said:


> Nothing is actually deleted from your PC when clicking DELETE or recycle bin..it will get written over in time, but remnants can still be retrieved by using FORENSIC software, that is why you see police removing Computers from peoples homes after a raid....but to anyone else, without that software, you can consider it gone.
> 
> In essence, emptying the trash leaves your document "right there" but "out of reach." to you.
> 
> ...


But heck of you erase it then why not erase it for everyone..


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## kburra (Jan 5, 2020)

"But heck of you erase it then why not erase it for everyone.. "  sorry don`t understand that statement"????


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## fmdog44 (Jan 5, 2020)

OK, thanks for the responses. I asked because I was thinking of making a spreadsheet of my important passwords I have always done by had on paper but I don't want to do it if there is a chance of being hacked and my info stolen.


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## StarSong (Jan 6, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> OK, thanks for the responses. I asked because I was thinking of making a spreadsheet of my important passwords I have always done by had on paper but I don't want to do it if there is a chance of being hacked and my info stolen.


You can make it but not save it during the process.  Then clear the spreadsheet and save that version.  Then delete it.  The recoverable version won't have your data on it.


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## Don M. (Jan 6, 2020)

Deleted files are "hidden" from view, but can still remain on your HD.  The best way to Clean your PC is to download and run a free program called CCleaner...It seems to get rid of any remnants of unused/deleted files.  It even has a provision for cleaning the Registry.  I've used it for several years, and between keeping the Anti-virus up to date, and running CC regularly, I've had no problems.....knock wood.


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## JB in SC (Jan 6, 2020)

Change those passwords every 60 days or so. Never use the same one for multiple applications. Use at least 16 characters with punctuation and numbers for the more sensitive data. The major issue is someone hacking into a company or national database, which is out of your control. So being diligent is imperative.

Keep in mind SSD's and Thumbdrives are more difficult to "clean" than spinning hard drives. The best method of security for SSD's or Thumbdrives is using encryption. Apple offers this on all their recent computers and it's pretty decent.


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## Gardenlover (Jan 6, 2020)

kburra said:


> Nothing is actually deleted from your PC when clicking DELETE or recycle bin..it will get written over in time, but remnants can still be retrieved by using FORENSIC software, that is why you see police removing Computers from peoples homes after a raid....but to anyone else, without that software, you can consider it gone.
> 
> In essence, emptying the trash leaves your document "right there" but "out of reach." to you.
> 
> ...


My son is a part time ethical hacker, patches holes before the bad guys get in.
I told him to try and get my passwords as I thought I used security best practices, he had them all in less than 5 minutes.


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## Pecos (Jan 6, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> If I create a doc then print it and immediately delete it without saving it does it still exist in somewhere in my computer?


I use the McAfee shredder to permanently get rid of a file or folder.


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## Pecos (Jan 6, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> OK, thanks for the responses. I asked because I was thinking of making a spreadsheet of my important passwords I have always done by had on paper but I don't want to do it if there is a chance of being hacked and my info stolen.


I move files like this to an external hard drive. Then I turn the power off to that hard drive until I need that specific file again. Then I go back to the copy of that file on my main computer and shred it using McAfee.


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## Ruthanne (Jan 6, 2020)

kburra said:


> "But heck of you erase it then why not erase it for everyone.. "  sorry don`t understand that statement"????


I'm not sure what I meant at the time... sorry.


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## CrackerJack (Jan 7, 2020)

I deleted a forum website from my default Browser last year and went to settings after looking up the procedure on my default and Google. Quite straightforward and the forum doesnt keep popping up in my Menu bar on my Browsers. 

I dont feel anything is 100%secure on the Net and its a punt we all have to take but being wary and cautious is the main thing imo


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## Ronni (Jan 7, 2020)

There are so many ways that hackers can get data that I think it's impossible to maintain a high enough level of security to keep everything secure all the time.  

I do my best to maintain reasonable security measures with the certain knowledge that the kind of hacker who is interested in general consumer level stuff (rather than high level banks and other secure locations) is going to try for the less protected information first and will troll for that, rather than taking the extra time to bypass my security measures.


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## StarSong (Jan 7, 2020)

Don M. said:


> Deleted files are "hidden" from view, but can still remain on your HD.  The best way to Clean your PC is to download and run a free program called CCleaner...It seems to get rid of any remnants of unused/deleted files.  It even has a provision for cleaning the Registry.  I've used it for several years, and between keeping the Anti-virus up to date, and running CC regularly, I've had no problems.....knock wood.


Thanks for the reminder about Cache Cleaner.  Over the past few months I purchased a new desktop and laptop, but forgot to add CCleaner to them!


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## StarSong (Jan 7, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> My son is a part time ethical hacker, patches holes before the bad guys get in.
> I told him to try and get my passwords as I thought I used security best practices, he had them all in less than 5 minutes.


GL, would you please share some of your son's advice on this subject?  

I almost never change my passwords because I make them (I think) fairly difficult to break. Upper and lower case letters that don't form words, numbers, and characters. Passwords for banking, purchasing, and personal info are always over 20 characters, and I don't permit my browser to remember them. When going out of town I erase my browsing history.  Not sure what else I should be doing.


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## Gardenlover (Jan 7, 2020)

StarSong said:


> GL, would you please share some of your son's advice on this subject?
> 
> I almost never change my passwords because I make them (I think) fairly difficult to break. Upper and lower case letters that don't form words, numbers, and characters. Passwords for banking, purchasing, and personal info are always over 20 characters, and I don't permit my browser to remember them. When going out of town I erase my browsing history.  Not sure what else I should be doing.


Much of what my son suggests you are already doing.

*Passwords:*

Use upper and lowercase letters
Use special characters
The longer the password the better, but no fewer than eight characters
Use two factor authentication
Change passwords every ninety days, monthly is even better.
Use different passwords for each online instance that requires a password
Don't allow browsers to save your password
Don't store unencrypted passwords on your computer
Keep written lists of passwords separate from your computer.
If password lists are stored on your phone password protect them
*Computers*

Use antivirus/malware/pop-up blocker/ransomware protection software
Use VPN (Virtual Private Network) software
Don't open emails or email attachments from unknown sources
Keep your software updated
Secure your wifi and periodically change the password
Remove and destroy hard drives before trashing old computers


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## fmdog44 (Jan 7, 2020)

Never thought of changing my WiFi password. Changing my PWs very ninety days or monthly would drive me nuts.


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## StarSong (Jan 7, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Never thought of changing my WiFi password. Changing my PWs very ninety days or monthly would drive me nuts.


Agreed about both.  Will have to look into changing my WiFi password.  Changing my other PWs that frequently would make me crazy.  I'd rather add 6 more characters to each and leave it at that.  

Thank you for the list, GL. That's very helpful.  

I'll have to investigate VPNs. 
Ditto with "securing my wifi" - not sure exactly what that means or how to do it.  

I use 2 factor ID when it's available.  
My browser has a log in of its own, and I only let it store PWs for non-sensitive sites (like this one).


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## Gardenlover (Jan 7, 2020)

StarSong said:


> ... I'll have to investigate VPNs.
> Ditto with "securing my wifi" - not sure exactly what that means or how to do it. ...


Secure wifi requires a password before allowing you to connect to the network.

When out and about I never connect to public wifi, such as those available at coffee shops, etc.


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## Pecos (Jan 7, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> Secure wifi requires a password before allowing you to connect to the network.
> 
> When out and about I never connect to public wifi, such as those available at coffee shops, etc.


I understand that newly purchased wifi boxes all come with the same preset password for each model and they do not make a point of encouraging people to change them. The fact that many of these preset passwords are published online causes further alarm.

Changing this password is not as easy as it is to change other passwords. You will need to original factory password to do it and may have to connect to the manufacturer's website. People commonly discard this original paperwork once their system is up and running. I found the process more complicated than it should be.


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## fmdog44 (Jan 7, 2020)

My WiFi PW is taped on my WiFi box


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## kburra (Jan 7, 2020)

I change my wifi password from time to time and is very easy really..you need to access your router and to do this type 192.168.1.1 in the browser address bar...*Access to your router now available*,will be asked for login and password normally is "admin" for both, if not opening with this will written on the back of the router.
All configuration options are now available, just click WIRELESS and proceed to change. My router below.


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## StarSong (Jan 8, 2020)

kburra said:


> I change my wifi password from time to time and is very easy really..you need to access your router and to do this* type 192.168.1.1 in the browser address bar*...*Access to your router now available*,will be asked for login and password normally is "admin" for both, if not opening with this will written on the back of the router.
> All configuration options are now available, just click WIRELESS and proceed to change. My router below.



Maybe on your computer - mine does nothing when I type this in.


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## StarSong (Jan 8, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> Secure wifi requires a password before allowing you to connect to the network.
> 
> When out and about I never connect to public wifi, such as those available at coffee shops, etc.


Yes, my home wifi requires a password before signing in for the first time with each device.

My computers aren't networked with each other. On the rare occasions when I need to transfer a file from one to another, I email it or put it on a thumb drive.


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## kburra (Jan 8, 2020)

Normally one of these: router’s default IP address (192.168.1.1 or 192.168.0.1). or google your routers IP address IE Netgear or whatever the brand.


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## Lakeland living (Jan 8, 2020)

Some interesting thoughts on this, to remove completely 100 % sure you would have to format or fill a hard drive to remove your data. The system simply removes the headers hiding your data from you, not removing it. Formatting the drive removes it, filling the drive writes it over.  Or it did 20 years ago. Best protection, unplug your internet line.


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## StarSong (Feb 4, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> Much of what my son suggests you are already doing.
> 
> *Passwords:*
> 
> ...


Just coming back to this.  Over the past week I changed all passwords that connect to financials or shopping.  Next up will be my email passwords - total pain in the neck because I use an email client that signs in and downloads all my messages.  Have been considering moving to Outlook anyway though.  

I haven't changed the router password because it will be such a hassle to reset our TVs and security cameras. With none of our computers being networked with each other, it's hard to know how important this is.


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## Gardenlover (Feb 4, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Just coming back to this.  Over the past week I changed all passwords that connect to financials or shopping.  Next up will be my email passwords - total pain in the neck because I use an email client that signs in and downloads all my messages.  Have been considering moving to Outlook anyway though.
> 
> I haven't changed the router password because it will be such a hassle to reset our TVs and security cameras. With none of our computers being networked with each other, it's hard to know how important this is.


Do you live in an apartment or condo? Do other family members, friends or friends of either of these two groups have access to your wifi? Have you notice a marked reduction in Internet speed for no apparent reason? If not and your current password is strong, I would not be too concerned with changing it. There is software (some free) that you can use to see who is on your network, but then again this might be over kill.


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## StarSong (Feb 4, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> Do you live in an apartment or condo? Do other family members, friends or friends of either of these two groups have access to your wifi? Have you notice a marked reduction in Internet speed for no apparent reason? If not and your current password is strong, I would not be too concerned with changing it. There is software (some free) that you can use to see who is on your network, but then again this might be over kill.


Private home.  I just checked my network and recognize all the sign ins.  That's when I realized how many passwords I'd have to update if I change the router PW!


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## C'est Moi (Feb 4, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> There is software (some free) that you can use to see who is on your network, but then again this might be over kill.


If you have Comcast/Xfinity, you can go to their website or app and see which devices are connected to your network.


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## StarSong (Feb 4, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> If you have Comcast/Xfinity, you can go to their website or app and see which devices are connected to your network.


I can look at my router through my computer.  It shows everything that's using the router and how it's connected (wifi or ethernet).  Shows each camera, our Alexa, laptops, phones and TVs.  Everything is individually connected, nothing networked to each other.


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