# 4 Killed At or Near Military Facilities. Shooter Has A Muslim Name



## WhatInThe (Jul 16, 2015)

A shooter  shot and killed 4 Marines while shooting up military facilities in Tenn. The shooter has or was using a Muslim name. Motivations not totally clear yet.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-police-officer-shot-near-tennessee-army-recruiting-center/

Where there's smoke...

More importantly may those killed rest in peace and condolences to family and friends of those killed.


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## ~Lenore (Jul 16, 2015)

*Probably just more "work place" problems, it can not be a religious war/jihad!  
Just our imaginations.  Islam is a religion of peace.   I suspect we will see more of these work place killings. *


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## QuickSilver (Jul 16, 2015)

Obviously an act of a radical extremist..


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## RadishRose (Jul 16, 2015)

Oh, no! Here we go again. I am no longer shocked of course, but the sadness never goes away.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 16, 2015)

What a shame, my sympathy for the victims and their families.  More on the shooter.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...d-chattanooga-gunman_55a82736e4b0c5f0322ce17d


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## Warrigal (Jul 16, 2015)

I am truly sorry for your loss today. It is an appalling thing to happen to your people wherever they are in the world.


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## RadishRose (Jul 16, 2015)

Related?   France detains 3 men in alleged plot to attack military base. See NY Times. I cant seem to paste in the URL with my tablet.


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## RadishRose (Jul 16, 2015)

Warrigal, how thoughtful !!!


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## WhatInThe (Jul 16, 2015)

RadishRose said:


> Related?   France detains 3 men in alleged plot to attack military base. See NY Times. I cant seem to paste in the URL with my tablet.



http://news.yahoo.com/france-foils-terror-attack-military-154322863.html

Young, naive and willing to kill and throw their lives away for what.


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## ~Lenore (Jul 16, 2015)

*....for what?  For their religion  and for Paradise and 30 or 40 virgins, that is what for.   That is what they expect if they die in jihad.  *


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## AZ Jim (Jul 16, 2015)

I commented on Lons post on the same subject below.I don't know why I didn't see this earlier.  https://www.seniorforums.com/showthread.php/15882-Our-Military-Is-Being-Killed-On-American-Soil


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## Shalimar (Jul 16, 2015)

My deepest sympathy, so very, very, sad.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 17, 2015)

~Lenore said:


> *Probably just more "work place" problems, it can not be a religious war/jihad!
> Just our imaginations.  Islam is a religion of peace.   I suspect we will see more of these work place killings. *



There are about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. The vast majority are peaceful. If all of them were terrorists do you really think they wouldn't have taken over the world by now?


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## Ameriscot (Jul 17, 2015)

I am saddened to read about yet another mass shooting, whoever the perpetrator is.


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## Ralphy1 (Jul 17, 2015)

Jihad seems to becoming as attractive as other causes for mass murder...


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## Shalimar (Jul 17, 2015)

Unfortunately, many disaffected youth are vulnerable to the brainwashing techniques of terrorist organisations, and these  tragedies occur all too often.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 17, 2015)

There have been many recent stories of muslim teens and even whole families going to Syria to join IS.  Most were born and raised in the UK.


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## Warrigal (Jul 17, 2015)

Not quite Ralphi. It's taken me a while to track this down but the facts are that



> In the United States since Sept. 11, terrorist attacks by antigovernment, racist and other nonjihadist extremists have killed nearly twice as many people as those by Islamic jihadists.



Full details in this NYTimes article http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html?_r=0

The definition of terrorism is problematic. For the stats included in the graph it is necessary to understand that some massacres are not counted because they don't fit the definition of terrorism.



> Counting terrorism cases is a subjective enterprise, relying on shifting definitions and judgment calls.
> 
> If terrorism is defined as ideological violence, for instance, should an attacker who has merely ranted about religion, politics or race be considered a terrorist? A man in Chapel Hill, N.C., who was charged with fatally shooting three young Muslim neighbors had posted angry critiques of religion, but he also had a history of outbursts over parking issues. (New America does not include this attack in its count.)
> 
> Likewise, what about mass killings in which no ideological motive is evident, such as those at a Colorado movie theater and a Connecticut elementary school in 2012? The criteria used by New America and most other research groups exclude such attacks, which have cost more lives than those clearly tied to ideology.



It is important to keep this issue in proportion lest we fall into the trap of giving the terrorists more power over us. They are not as powerful as they or we imagine.


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## Elyzabeth (Jul 17, 2015)

Why would it not be a Muslim?

Seems pretty clear that those terrorists are not our friends.

These people are on par with the Nazis and I say that with great sorrow, 
that such evil is once again  in the world

When will we stop apologising for the fact that this violence has been done by Muslims?

ISLAM does not mean peace..

 it means

submission


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## Shalimar (Jul 17, 2015)

This might be a good time to mention that the Nazis were Christian. I am not comfortable blaming all Muslims for a small minority of terrorists, any more than I would blame all Christianity for the horror that was Nazi Germany.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 17, 2015)

Shooter had a trip to Jordan last year.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...tanooga-shooter-trip-jordan-article-1.2295593

Didn't the Boston bomber take a trip to Chechnya less than a year before their attack


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## Ameriscot (Jul 17, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> This might be a good time to mention that the Nazis were Christian. I am not comfortable blaming all Muslims for a small minority of terrorists, any more than I would blame all Christianity for the horror that was Nazi Germany.



Ditto!!


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## Ameriscot (Jul 17, 2015)

Remember Malala, the Pakistani girl who won the Nobel Peace Prize?  She is Muslim. She is not a terrorist.  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30411049


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## WhatInThe (Jul 18, 2015)

Sad news, make that 5 killed.

http://myfox8.com/2015/07/18/fifth-service-member-dies-after-chattanooga-shooting/

Friend says trip to Jordan changed him.

http://www.abc17news.com/national-news/who-was-chattanooga-shooter-abdulazeez/34214276

Shooter briefly worked at nuclear plant around Cleveland. Eventually failed background check

http://www.timesofisrael.com/tennessee-shooter-worked-briefly-at-nuclear-plant/

Had dui arrest months prior. Experts says this conflicts with Islamic fundamentalism. 

http://www.nhregister.com/general-n...ings-suspect-may-have-had-dui-arrest-in-april


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## Elyzabeth (Jul 18, 2015)

Me thinks you are terrified to admit it like it is ....?


More and more Muslims are being radicalized 

by other radicalized Muslims.. 

Why aren't the peaceful muslins doing something to stop them ?

BIG QUESTION!


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## Shalimar (Jul 18, 2015)

Why didn't peaceful German Christians do more to stop Hitler? It is just not that simple. Blaming a whole religion for the actions of  a minority however monstrous is unfair, whether it is referencing Hitler's Nazi Germany, or present day Muslim terrorists.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 18, 2015)

It's not so much domestic Muslims but the Muslims with direct overseas exposure to radical elements of the religion. Both the Boston Bombers and this Tenn shooter had trips to other countries in areas infested with radicals & fanatics. The Muslims traveling to these areas or coming from these areas need extra scrutiny.


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## Elyzabeth (Jul 19, 2015)

"Slight  " difference, 

the German claimed to be ignorant of the atrocities being committed by the Nazi's

The Muslims can all  see it very clearly  the problem is, they are afraid of speaking out against the terrorists.

NOBODY is ever blaming all of anyone for anything.. 

However, the leaders need to take the responsibility for what is taking place, openly, within,  and under the name of their religion.

Muslims leaders need to step up take responsibility for leading their people into more peaceful ways and shunning the radical terriorists.

I'm listening..
I'm Listening

and I only hear an occasional dribble....


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## Elyzabeth (Jul 19, 2015)

AMERISCOT


Nobody, but nobody has said that all Muslims ARE TERROORISTS.. 

WHO WOULD  SAY SUCH A STUPID THING???


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## Ameriscot (Jul 19, 2015)

Elyzabeth said:


> AMERISCOT
> 
> 
> Nobody, but nobody has said that all Muslims ARE TERROORISTS..
> ...



I have heard and read many saying just that!


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## Shalimar (Jul 19, 2015)

Annie, I have heard/read the same thing. Regarding German's claiming ignorance of the actions of the Nazi's atrocities. Some may have been obvilious, but pictures, records, clearly indicate how complicit the majority were in the Thousand Year Reich. It would not have been sensible for the average person to admit any knowledge/collaboration of the heinous acts perpetrated by those monsters. They risked jail or worse after the war ended.


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## Shalimar (Jul 19, 2015)

Also, here in Canada, all the major Muslim leaders have spoken out again and again decrying the radicalization of Muslim youth, and the heinous terrorist acts perpetrated by a rabid few. I am certain this response is the norm in America, Great Britain, France, and  many  other countries as well. It is important to remember one billion persons follow the teachings of Islam, factor in the estimated number of Islamic terrorists globally, and the percentage is very small. It was the same in Northern Ireland during The Troubles, a small number of terrorists, financed primarily overseas,(including healthy contributions from sympathisers in America,) created terror for decades. Another similarity, both Muslim and Irish moderates risk/ risked torture and death of themselves and their loved ones if they  speak/spoke out against the terrorists. How would I behave under Such constraints? I hope I never find out!


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## WhatInThe (Jul 20, 2015)

*drug abuse excuse*

Now it's being said the shooter was a drug addict and the trip to Jordan was an attempt to sober up. The failed background check for the nuclear plant was supposedly a failed drug test.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-07-19-21-15-43

Even if he was a drug addict that is no excuse. I do not believe it but many drug addicts complain that many rehab programs amount to nothing but brainwashing. I guess the program is supposed to become your life or a new way of life. Sounds like radical Islam became his new way of life. I don't think drugs are an excuse in that many remove inhibition to do what one really wants to do or say and act like what they are really thinking. This all could be a distraction from the family and be curious to see the final toxicology results.


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## Elyzabeth (Jul 20, 2015)

Name just one newspaper that  said that All Muslims are terrorists, please?


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## Elyzabeth (Jul 20, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> This might be a good time to mention that the Nazis were Christian. I am not comfortable blaming all Muslims for a small minority of terrorists, any more than I would blame all Christianity for the horror that was Nazi Germany.



WHO  ?? 

Who ?? Is " blaming all Muslims ???

One newspaper , one proof please ???

Not some isolated single persons demented opinion..one newspaper ????


Name it please ...newspaper and writer 


I wish people would stop saying this same stupid thing over and over without a shred of PROOF !!!!


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## Ameriscot (Jul 20, 2015)

Elyzabeth said:


> WHO  ??
> 
> Who ?? Is " blaming all Muslims ???
> 
> ...



Oh, calm down and stop shouting.  Who said a newspaper said this?  I know people who say this, most of them Americans.  One is a relative of mine and you can't point out how stupid that is.


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## BobF (Jul 20, 2015)

It is time for the Muslims to start saying NOT ME over and over.   Right now we never hear much from the Muslims about the good or bad of their members.   The last I heard was about some Muslim leader in England I believe, and he was accused of some not so nice things.

A few years back I went to a book store and bought a Qor'an.   The one I have is 5"x7" with over 600 pages.   Too me a very detailed but confusing book to read and understand.   But it may make sense to those that grew up with it.

It would be nice if they could allow themselves to be freely among the rest of us without the religious garments they feel they must always wear.   I read somewhere that proper attire is not part of the Qur'an.   That must be so as I can never find it.   

And there are different garments found in different areas of the world.   Like Christianity, I know of no clothing items required but many of the Christian faiths do have special clothing for the churches people that they wear during services.

And for the Muslims there are other books around called the Hadith where more of the so called comments of Muhammad are kept.   I have not yet bought a Hadith or two to read.   Likely won't either.

To wind up my post, I say again.    It is the responsibility of the Muslims to speak out loud and clear that they do not like all this hate and murdering from their own people.


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## Shalimar (Jul 20, 2015)

Calling people demented and stupid does not reflect well on the poster. Debates should succeed or fail on the merits of their
arguments, not on negative personal remarks.


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## Shalimar (Jul 20, 2015)

Regarding the alleged silence of Muslims around the behaviour of their members, I refer anyone interested to the my earlier post about Canadian Muslim leaders.


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## Bee (Jul 20, 2015)

Plenty on the internet from moderate Muslims if people care to check.

I know many Muslim women that dress in Western style clothing.


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## BobF (Jul 20, 2015)

Bee, I am sure there are some Muslims that don't dress up as then we don't really see them.

The problem is that if they do not start speaking loudly about not wanting hate and murder, most will never notice and give them any credit.   Looking on the web we can find most anything.   But I wonder how many really look to the web for anything but forums they like and email stuff.    Can't expect us all to look for what they should actually be very defensive of.   We have plenty of headlines speaking of evil and things ISIS is doing.   The feed back should be just as loud and public in response.

I wonder if most folks just believe since no big defensive roar that maybe Muslims all think it is OK.

Is Bee a shortcut for Beatrice?


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## oldman (Jul 20, 2015)

Here in my home town of York, PA, we have armed civilians that are allowed to carry firearms because they have a permit, standing outside the Armed Forces Recruiting Center. Check it out at http://www.wgal.com 
I have a concealed weapons permit, but I won't be joining them. Look at the video inside the link. These 'boys' aren't playing.


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## Shalimar (Jul 20, 2015)

Most Muslims don't think it is ok Bob, and neither do the Muslim leaders in Canada who continually speak up against terrorism, and work tirelessly in their communities to stop the radicalization of Muslim youth.


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## Bee (Jul 21, 2015)

BobF said:


> Bee, I am sure there are some Muslims that don't dress up as then we don't really see them.
> 
> The problem is that if they do not start speaking loudly about not wanting hate and murder, most will never notice and give them any credit.   Looking on the web we can find most anything.   But I wonder how many really look to the web for anything but forums they like and email stuff.    Can't expect us all to look for what they should actually be very defensive of.   We have plenty of headlines speaking of evil and things ISIS is doing.   _*The feed back should be just as loud and public in response.*_
> 
> ...




It would be Bob if newspapers were to publish from the other side, but would that sell the papers?? and that is why many moderate Muslims take to the internet and social networking sites to get their message across.


Yes you have sussed me out Bob.


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## Elyzabeth (Jul 22, 2015)

The IDEA that anyone thinks all  muslims are bad is pretty demented and pretty stupid!

Talking about Ideas here....some people don't get that concept...?

"Woowie Kazowis"  Bee, You actually know Muslim women who wear western style clothing ?

Amazing!!!

That changes all of my concepts about Muslim women completely....


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## Bee (Jul 22, 2015)

Open your damn eyes woman and you will see I was posting in reference to Bob's comment in post 37.

Oh! by the way you do realise that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, although I doubt if you will understand that either.


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## 3horsefarm (Jul 22, 2015)

Elyzabeth said:


> The IDEA that anyone thinks all  muslims are bad is pretty demented and pretty stupid!
> 
> Talking about Ideas here....some people don't get that concept...?
> 
> ...




WHY?? Lots of Mormons only have one wife. Lots of christians wear pants to church. And very few of us Native Americans still scalp the white-eyes.................


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## BobF (Jul 22, 2015)

Bee said:


> It would be Bob if newspapers were to publish from the other side, but would that sell the papers?? and that is why many moderate Muslims take to the internet and social networking sites to get their message across.
> 
> 
> Yes you have sussed me out Bob.



Who reads newspapers anymore.   We dropped papers long ago as they had dropped to a page or two of news, local and national with some stock market stuff to many many pages of ads for groceries, hardware, auto, etc.   Nothing worth the cost of delivery to home.

Maybe getting some TV airtime, in normal local dress rather than religious dress, if they can.   Speak about the hate and killing going on in the Arab states and how wrong it is.   Public speaking or TV are about the only ways for the rest of the public to hear their stories and get their minds changed from distrusting all to trusting many and knowing who to distrust.  

In the US we are really fortunate that the founders went to accepting *ALL* religions but *not allowing any religion* to be our government.   History of Europe and Africa show religion to be a rather risky way to go for leadership.


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## Shalimar (Jul 22, 2015)

When I took debate in university, we were taught that the last defence of an individual caught with a specious argument was to attack the opponent using ridicule in an attempt at misdirection. It rarely works, and never reflects well on the aggressor. Something to consider.


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## 3horsefarm (Jul 22, 2015)

We were also taught 'reading for comprehension' skills.................


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## Shalimar (Jul 22, 2015)

3hf, reading sure does come in handy....


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## 3horsefarm (Jul 22, 2015)

So does comprehension of what you just read. Crunch!


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## Shalimar (Jul 22, 2015)

Gosh, 3hf, your humour is as sarcastic as the Canadianim! Lol.


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## Bee (Jul 22, 2015)

BobF said:


> Who reads newspapers anymore.   We dropped papers long ago as they had dropped to a page or two of news, local and national with some stock market stuff to many many pages of ads for groceries, hardware, auto, etc.   Nothing worth the cost of delivery to home.
> 
> Maybe getting some TV airtime, in normal local dress rather than religious dress, if they can.   Speak about the hate and killing going on in the Arab states and how wrong it is.   Public speaking or TV are about the only ways for the rest of the public to hear their stories and get their minds changed from distrusting all to trusting many and knowing who to distrust.
> 
> In the US we are really fortunate that the founders went to accepting *ALL* religions but *not allowing any religion* to be our government.   History of Europe and Africa show religion to be a rather risky way to go for leadership.



, I haven't bought a newspaper for years Bob, but I do read the papers on the internet.................there have been occassional articles from the moderates speaking out against the terrosists and a lot have taken to social media and You Tube to get their point across, one of the main ones has the hashtag...notinmyname.

You may find this article which was written last October interesting.

http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2014/10/10/moderate-muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism/

From July 2014, click on the video.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28165325


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## BobF (Jul 22, 2015)

3horsefarm, do you have a husband with the name Jhon?


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## 3horsefarm (Jul 22, 2015)

No husband at all, thankyouverymuch.


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## BobF (Jul 22, 2015)

Bee, I just finished reading these articles.   Really amazing what is published about events in the ISIS areas and how folks in Europe and Mediterranean areas are behaving.   Also very noticeable how the US was pointed out to be not much help at all and pointed a finger at the US government and our leadership.

I do agree with those articles.   I think we will pay now and help all to win over the terrorist, or we will pay later and have a much bigger fight to win as many of the current victims will no longer be able to help defeat the terrorists.

Note too that in the US we don't seem to have much involvement with the Islamist cry's for NOT IN MY NAME.   If it is happening it is too low key and should be brought forward and louder.   It is important that we hear the cry and that we also become part of the effort to put those Shia or Sunni, which ever part of Islam it is, that wants to destroy the world and make us all radical Muslims.   I believe it is the Shia part that supports the terrorists.


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## Warrigal (Jul 22, 2015)

Actually Bob, al Qaeda and ISIS are both examples of extreme Sunni Islam. 

A source of a lot of the trouble with radicalisation of Muslim countries like Pakistan can be laid at the feet of the Saudis who fund the madrassas that teach Wahhabism, a very hard line Sunni offshoot that does not recognise any other forms. These are the groups executing other Muslims as infidels. Sunnis used to be moderate before the upsurge of Wahhabism.


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## BobF (Jul 23, 2015)

A very confusing situation with ISIS.   The link I will post says the Sunni will fight Iran and ISIS together if they invade Sunni territories.    But of coarse it is 9 months old right now.    So it looks like ISIS has those that do not like them in both Sunni and Shia groups.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-sunnis-wont-fight-isis/
[h=1]Why Sunnis Won’t Fight ISIS[/h] 				 									[h=2]They were abandoned after the Awakening, and won't trust the U.S again, dooming America's new effort in Iraq.[/h] 								             	 								 												  By Peter Van Buren • October 17, 2014 


*Sorry Mr. President

*

 The Sunnis seem to be choosing a middle ground, one which does not serve Obama’s interests.


 According to a 1920s Revolution Brigade  Sunni leader, various militias came to the decision “not to support the  international coalition against ISIS.” They also decided not to  cooperate with ISIS, saying “If the Iraqi army or the Shia militias  attack Sunni areas we control, we will fight both groups.”


 “We are against the acts of the hard-line Islamic State. And we are  also against bombed cars exploding randomly in Baghdad,” Abu Samir  al-Jumaili, one of the Sunni Mujahideen Army’s leaders in Anbar  province, told  NIQASH. “However we are also opposed to the government’s sectarian  policies against Sunnis…  In 2006 we cooperated to expel al-Qaeda from  Sunni cities but the government did not keep its end of the bargain.  They chased our leaders and arrested us … The ISIS group are terrorists  but so are the Shia militias.”


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## Warrigal (Jul 23, 2015)

BobF said:


> A very confusing situation with ISIS.   The link I will post says the Sunni will fight Iran and ISIS together if they invade Sunni territories.    But of coarse it is 9 months old right now.    So it looks like ISIS has those that do not like them in both Sunni and Shia groups.


On this point, ISIS is everyone's enemy. They kill mainstream Sunnis as readily as they kill Shia, Sufis, Kurds, Christians and Westerners. They are a murderous sect and few have the courage to stand against them. Iraqi Sunnis have a tendency to flee before them while the Kurds take the fight right up to them. I think the Kurds are Sunnis too but I'm not sure of this. Kurdish women fighters are ISIS' worst nightmare because they represent death with out the chance of martyrdom. 

News overnight revealed that ISIS have been systematically rounding up homosexual men in the regions that they have overrun and executing them by throwing them from the top of tall buildings. Any that are still alive after the fall are stoned. 

In the days of Saddam Hussein, Iraq and Iran were enemies and a war was fought. The US sided with Iraq if memory serves. Today Iraq's interest might be different. Isis is now a much more serious threat than its neighbour. Help from Iran might now be welcome.


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