# Are You "Open-Minded"?



## ClassicRockr (Feb 27, 2015)

I really didn't realize just how open-minded So California was until I got out of the Navy there. Found out, fairly quickly, that I wasn't raised to be that open-minded at all. Actually, most farmer and ranchers aren't that way. Some folks would actually tell me, "you just aren't open-minded enough to live here" and I really believed them. The more I seen and heard, I knew I wasn't. 

And even today, I know that I'm not that much, if any. I just don't believe in certain things that others believe in. My wife knows that I'm this way and completely understands why and in many way, is the same way. From being around the rodeo family, she really came to understand how I got this way and why my step-parents taught me to be this way. Seems to me that a lot of "big city" folks are really open-minded, compared to folks that own/run farms/ranches. There is a distinct difference between the two cultures. I'm proud to be a former farmer! Even when I played rock drums, the whole "sex, drugs, rock n roll" thing wasn't me. All I could think of after playing a gig, was......."somebody get me a beer/Bud, QUICK! Dang I'm thirsty!"  

So, just how open-minded are you?


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## Mrs. Robinson (Feb 27, 2015)

Because I was born and raised in Northern California,fifteen minutes south of San Francisco,have always been around kids-my own and their friends,my grandkids and their friends,and foster kids now too,I have always been pretty open minded.


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## hollydolly (Feb 27, 2015)

I was born and raised in a city known for it's hard life and violence ...I have lived in a few Non English speaking cities in Europe, ( Italy, germany Spain)  I have seen plenty...probably more than I ever wanted, and most people don't witness ..I'm certainly not naive..but I'm not sure I would describe myself as entirely open minded.


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## AZ Jim (Feb 27, 2015)

I was born in Los Angeles, spent most of my childhood there and San Diego.  I am open minded and my position is that if you or others aren't, that's ok.  I don't condemn Homosexuals (though I am straight), I don't feel superior to other races, I believe everyone has a right to their religion even though I am not religious.  I will always defend my opinions against those I disagree with and I will do it without fear of retaliation.  I temper that with enough discipline to stay healthy, but even then I am capable of defending myself should I need to. Debate is good for the soul.


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## ronaldj (Feb 27, 2015)

most likely not...


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## Ameriscot (Feb 27, 2015)

I would call myself very open-minded.


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## ClassicRockr (Feb 27, 2015)

Well, some of you would not like/get along with farmers and ranchers about how they think of things that go down in the "big city" areas.

Heck, I remember, years ago, when I visited Billings, MT and had a California plate on my truck. Stopped at the downtown library for a few minutes and when I came out, there was a note under a windshield wiper on my truck. The note said, "if you plan on staying in Montana, get your plate changed. We don't like California plates here!" Well, to a lot of Montana people, California reminds them of Los Angeles and all the crime, etc. While I was there, a murder suspect was caught at a local motel that supposedly committed a murder in Palm Springs. Don't know why the dude was in Billings, but that was the wrong place to run to!

Well, fortunately I fit in with Billings (Wrangler jeans, boots, hat and Western shirt). Unfortunately, my truck didn't.


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## halalu (Feb 27, 2015)

When I was younger, I found a poem or what ever some label it called "Desiderata" I don't remember the exact words but it says something like listen, even the dull and ignorant have their truths. I am older now and I am still learning that life experience or learning can and does influence how we all interpret someone's truth. That is one of the reasons I value this forum. We are all different life experiences, education and existence. What could be better than this?


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## halalu (Feb 27, 2015)

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace  there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on  good terms with all persons.

 Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
 Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit.  If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for  always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
 Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in  your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing  fortunes of time.
 Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of  trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many  persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism.
 Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical  about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment, it is as  perennial as the grass.
 Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
 Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do  not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of  fatigue and loneliness.
 Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a  child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a  right to be here.
 And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is  unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you  conceive Him to be.
 And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of  life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken  dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

*“*​ *”*​ Max Ehrmann, "_Desiderata_"


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## AZ Jim (Feb 27, 2015)

ClassicRockr said:


> Well, some of you would not like/get along with farmers and ranchers about how they think of things that go down in the "big city" areas.
> 
> Heck, I remember, years ago, when I visited Billings, MT and had a California plate on my truck. Stopped at the downtown library for a few minutes and when I came out, there was a note under a windshield wiper on my truck. The note said, "if you plan on staying in Montana, get your plate changed. We don't like California plates here!" Well, to a lot of Montana people, California reminds them of Los Angeles and all the crime, etc. While I was there, a murder suspect was caught at a local motel that supposedly committed a murder in Palm Springs. Don't know why the dude was in Billings, but that was the wrong place to run to!
> 
> Well, fortunately I fit in with Billings (Wrangler jeans, boots, hat and Western shirt). Unfortunately, my truck didn't.



THAT is really closed minded and stupid as well.


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## Josiah (Feb 27, 2015)

Open mindedness suggests a willingness to consider new ideas and and replace your original idea for a new one. I've changed my opinion on countless topics countless times, and because I've admitted to being wrong so many times, I've learned to be exceedingly skeptical of all ideas knowing that quite likely what I believe today I may not believe tomorrow. This variability in my belief system is not haphazard. . .  I'm just adjusting my opinions to best comply with what I understand to be reality. When I do hit upon an idea which does seem to agree with reality I stick with it. I've been an atheist since the age of 14 but if God came into my house today and performed a few simple miracles to prove who he was I stop being an atheist. I'm open minded God you just need to give me a good reason to believe in you.


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## AZ Jim (Feb 27, 2015)

ClassicRockr said:


> *Well, some of you would not like/get along with farmers and ranchers about how they think of things that go down in the "big city" areas.*
> 
> Heck, I remember, years ago, when I visited Billings, MT and had a California plate on my truck. Stopped at the downtown library for a few minutes and when I came out, there was a note under a windshield wiper on my truck. The note said, "if you plan on staying in Montana, get your plate changed. We don't like California plates here!" Well, to a lot of Montana people, California reminds them of Los Angeles and all the crime, etc. While I was there, a murder suspect was caught at a local motel that supposedly committed a murder in Palm Springs. Don't know why the dude was in Billings, but that was the wrong place to run to!
> 
> Well, fortunately I fit in with Billings (Wrangler jeans, boots, hat and Western shirt). Unfortunately, my truck didn't.



I lived 10 years in South Dakota and got along great with my farmer friends, supper at my place, theirs out on the farm.  No problem.


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## halalu (Feb 27, 2015)

Are you sure? Miracles don't last forever, scams do!


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## oakapple (Feb 27, 2015)

ClassicRockr said:


> Well, some of you would not like/get along with farmers and ranchers about how they think of things that go down in the "big city" areas.
> 
> Heck, I remember, years ago, when I visited Billings, MT and had a California plate on my truck. Stopped at the downtown library for a few minutes and when I came out, there was a note under a windshield wiper on my truck. The note said, "if you plan on staying in Montana, get your plate changed. We don't like California plates here!" Well, to a lot of Montana people, California reminds them of Los Angeles and all the crime, etc. While I was there, a murder suspect was caught at a local motel that supposedly committed a murder in Palm Springs. Don't know why the dude was in Billings, but that was the wrong place to run to!
> 
> Well, fortunately I fit in with Billings (Wrangler jeans, boots, hat and Western shirt). Unfortunately, my truck didn't.


sounds like a really friendly little town!


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## Lon (Feb 27, 2015)

Like Mrs. Robinson I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area and consider my self extremely open minded and the older I get, even more so.


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## oakapple (Feb 27, 2015)

If, by saying open minded, you mean open to ideas other than those you are familiar with, then yes, I am open minded.Some people say open minded and really mean open to all sorts of vices, but I'm sure you didn't mean that.nthego:


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## AZ Jim (Feb 27, 2015)

Lon said:


> Like Mrs. Robinson I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area and consider my self extremely open minded and the older I get, even more so.



And that's a good thing Lon...Live and let live.


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## Warrigal (Feb 27, 2015)

Josiah09 said:


> Open mindedness suggests a willingness to consider new ideas and and replace your original idea for a new one. I've changed my opinion on countless topics countless times, and because I've admitted to being wrong so many times, I've learned to be exceedingly skeptical of all ideas knowing that quite likely what I believe today I may not believe tomorrow. This variability in my belief system is not haphazard. . .  I'm just adjusting my opinions to best comply with what I understand to be reality. When I do hit upon an idea which does seem to agree with reality I stick with it. I've been an atheist since the age of 14 but if God came into my house today and performed a few simple miracles to prove who he was I stop being an atheist. I'm open minded God you just need to give me a good reason to believe in you.



Good post but may I humbly suggest that to recognise God in your life you have to have an open heart. Open heartedness suggests a willingness to turn your life completely upside down. It's being open to sudden revolution, as well as gradual evolution.


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## Josiah (Feb 27, 2015)

I don't mean to be difficult DW, but I just don't know what having an open heart means. I presume it means something along the lines of having a emotional predisposition to accept the idea of God. My experience and what I have learned from the history of science, is that emotions play a decidedly negative role in establishing the truth of falsity of a proposition. Wanting something to be true is subjective behavior where as science is interested in objective reality. Scientists try very hard not to let their emotions cloud their judgement. If you want to argue that establishing a belief in God has nothing to do with science. I will reply that the scientific method has been the best tool for establishing the truth or falsity of any proposition.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 27, 2015)

Maybe my idea of being open-minded is different then some, but I believe I am open-minded.  What that means to me is that I do not have to go along with what others think or do.  But I do like to hear what they have to say, so I can have some understanding.  I don't just close my mind to someone who is living "say" a lifestyle that I don't choose to live, or say, they love living on the beach, but I prefer the mountains.  I don't consider myself right and them wrong.  I'm also that way with things like politics, religion, or any other belief, way of life, opinion.  I don't think of it as I am right and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

I like to think that someday, somehow, we will all have every, question answered.  Like our origins, like "the truth is out there"  and where the heck is "out there"

PS Hi Josiah, I wanted to add that I don't think being open-minded needs to demand a willingness to change our minds, but I do think it is to accept others ways/beliefs etc.  And definitely not insist on being right, just because my belief is different, does not make me right.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 27, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Good post but may I humbly suggest that to recognise God in your life you have to have an open heart. Open heartedness suggests a willingness to turn your life completely upside down. It's being open to sudden revolution, as well as gradual evolution.



I don't know how to put this in words, ok, let you all know that from the get-go, but I want to try.  I like what you are saying DW because I believe there is more to this Universe then just the physical, what we can see, touch, hear??  There is something I will just call Spirit, the spiritual.  I don't believe science can grasp the spiritual part of us, or our surroundings.  I love science, don't misunderstand, but I think of science, sometimes, as something that man/woman uses to try to explain the unexplainable.  Some things they are able to come up with an explanation, far out.  But is it true, I don't know.  I believe there is something far beyond anything man/woman can even begin to comprehend, some call it God, some call it, hell if I know


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## Meanderer (Feb 27, 2015)

We are the poorest judge of our own open mindedness.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 27, 2015)

Meanderer said:


> We are the poorest judge of our own open mindedness.



Not if we can be honest with ourselves


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## Debby (Feb 27, 2015)

nwlady said:


> I don't know how to put this in words, ok, let you all know that from the get-go, but I want to try.  I like what you are saying DW because I believe there is more to this Universe then just the physical, what we can see, touch, hear??  There is something I will just call Spirit, the spiritual.  I don't believe science can grasp the spiritual part of us, or our surroundings.  I love science, don't misunderstand, but I think of science, sometimes, as something that man/woman uses to try to explain the unexplainable.  Some things they are able to come up with an explanation, far out.  But is it true, I don't know.  I believe there is something far beyond anything man/woman can even begin to comprehend, some call it God, some call it, hell if I know




Science explains through the repeated verification via observation.  When all who 'test' the question or issue repeatedly and come up with the same answer over and over, than it can be 'known'.  Anything less than that is faith or belief or hope.  

And science can be a basis for spiritual things.  I'm a keen fan of a NASA physicist name Tom Campbell and I believe that his explanation of what science has proven to be true (via the Double Slit Experiment and the Measurement Problem) supports the 'likelihood' of a Consciousness that designed and created the physical world as we know it and for a very specific reason and it had nothing to do with 'worship Me because I am God'.  Toms thinking on the whole question of our spiritual and physical world, in my mind, is supported by the experiences of people who have died and come back as well as a number of other experiential philosophies and historical ancient traditions.  Now these ideas would truly be a test of how open minded one is I think.

I think that I can say wholeheartedly that I am very open minded.  The only place where I draw the line is when a being or the planet is being harmed whether deliberately or through ignorance.   And I'd say too that being open-minded also requires us to be skeptical at all times and open to new understandings based on new evidence.


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## Warrigal (Feb 27, 2015)

Josiah09 said:


> I don't mean to be difficult DW, but I just don't know what having an open heart means. I presume it means something along the lines of having a emotional predisposition to accept the idea of God. My experience and what I have learned from the history of science, is that emotions play a decidedly negative role in establishing the truth of falsity of a proposition. Wanting something to be true is subjective behavior where as science is interested in objective reality. Scientists try very hard not to let their emotions cloud their judgement. If you want to argue that establishing a belief in God has nothing to do with science. I will reply that the scientific method has been the best tool for establishing the truth or falsity of any proposition.


I know all about the scientific method, having been a high school science teacher who taught both the history of science and the scientific method to my students.
By the way, try as they may, scientists are also subject to their emotions, current world view and preconceived ideas. They are more open minded than most but not as much as they would like to believe.

Science cannot prove nor disprove the proposition that there is a god, for the very simple reason that "god" is an ill defined concept. Science and mathematics require well defined concepts to work with.

When we talk about God we must necessarily use metaphor, not definitions. The Christian bible is full of parables that say "God is like..." The Jewish scripture simply say that God is unknowable mystery. Not something that science can grapple with. If we dismiss it as nonsense , we are not relying on the scientific method, but on our own emotions, world view and preconceived ideas.

In explaining my own initial experience of God I would refer you to a passage in Revelation (not a book I pretend to understand, by the way). It says: "_Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me_." Being open hearted means opening the door when you hear the knocking. Metaphorically you close the book of scientific method that you have been reading and walk over to the door, which is the door of new revelation, and open it. Thereafter you still appreciate the old book which is science but you realise that it is not the font of all wisdom. And wherever you happen to find yourself, you will never be alone again.

Edit - I note I've used the pronoun "you" quite a lot. Please don't think that I am trying to evangelise anyone. I'm simply trying to explain that some things are not covered by the discipline of science. They are much more experiential than observational.


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## AZ Jim (Feb 27, 2015)

I cannot be evangelized.  I spent much of my adolescent years seeking "God" only to end up a non-believer once I finally committed to a opinion as an adult. Over the years several people have tried to convince me to "accept my savior".  I am sorry and do not mean to offend anyone with my position but I don't buy any of it. It would take far too long to share why I feel as I do, but suffice to say I am solid in my position.


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## Warrigal (Feb 27, 2015)

In other words, on this subject your mind is made up and the matter is closed.
All of us have areas where we are not open minded, often for very good reasons.
We'd be mental jelly fish if this was not so.


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## AZ Jim (Feb 27, 2015)

Yes DW my open minded journey let me to a conclusion and it still works for me.  I agree about the jelly fish analogy.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 27, 2015)

I am seeking even though I was also "evangelized" but I considered the source to be man/woman, just like me, and I don't trust that, but I still seek, so I am open to any information that I might evaluate, and even test out.  I mean, if I got a burning bush, my first instinct would be to put it out.  But if it spoke to me, trust me, I would listen(and if it turned out to be Phil yankin my chain I'd slap the crap out of him).  I think the only problem with "religion" is much of it is man-made, maybe all, but I can't believe puny man/woman created all that is.  So I hope I am open to "it" whatever "it" may be as that is not something I want to miss out on.


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## Ameriscot (Feb 28, 2015)

I am fine with what anyone else does or believes _as long_ as it is not hurting anyone else.  I was around a lot of narrow minded evangelicals when I lived in TN.  They thought they were good christians who were going to heaven, but they would make someone gay feel unwelcome in their churches because it was their belief that a gay person could not be a christian.  I have no tolerance for that attitude.


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## hollydolly (Feb 28, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> I cannot be evangelized.  I spent much of my adolescent years seeking "God" only to end up a non-believer once I finally committed to a opinion as an adult. Over the years several people have tried to convince me to "accept my savior".  I am sorry and do not mean to offend anyone with my position but I don't buy any of it. It would take far too long to share why I feel as I do, but suffice to say I am solid in my position.




and absolutely you should be..I agree. Everyone has the right to believe what they believe and not have to answer to anyone else as to why that's the case..


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## Meanderer (Feb 28, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Not if we can be honest with ourselves


That is a big "if".


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## oakapple (Feb 28, 2015)

There are other things to be open minded about [apart from religion].Remember that town, Billings? that Classic rockr went to with his California number plate on the car.Who would want to live in a town like that?It wasn't a European number plate [what would they have made of THAT I wonder?] The sort of place that calls you a Commie if you suggest anything left leaning, or a pansy [I'm being polite here] if a man wears a pink shirt. Stereotyping people is a very narrow minded thing to do.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 28, 2015)

Debby said:


> Science explains through the repeated verification via observation.  When all who 'test' the question or issue repeatedly and come up with the same answer over and over, than it can be 'known'.  Anything less than that is faith or belief or hope.
> 
> And science can be a basis for spiritual things.  I'm a keen fan of a NASA physicist name Tom Campbell and I believe that his explanation of what science has proven to be true (via the Double Slit Experiment and the Measurement Problem) supports the 'likelihood' of a Consciousness that designed and created the physical world as we know it and for a very specific reason and it had nothing to do with 'worship Me because I am God'.  Toms thinking on the whole question of our spiritual and physical world, in my mind, is supported by the experiences of people who have died and come back as well as a number of other experiential philosophies and historical ancient traditions.  Now these ideas would truly be a test of how open minded one is I think.
> 
> I think that I can say wholeheartedly that I am very open minded.  The only place where I draw the line is when a being or the planet is being harmed whether deliberately or through ignorance.   And I'd say too that being open-minded also requires us to be skeptical at all times and open to new understandings based on new evidence.



You have a good point, and this was an interesting read.  I don't understand a lot of the wording because I guess I am ignorant to much of the scientific world But I still grasped most of what you shared Debby.  I hope I am not close-minded, I like hearing your read. My final answer would be, he could be absolutely right  I have read a few of the NDE stories, and my sister had one when she almost died giving birth to her first child.  She said she was like "up toward the ceiling" watching herself and the doctors.  So there is something, much I don't know or understand.


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## Debby (Feb 28, 2015)

nwlady said:


> You have a good point, and this was an interesting read.  I don't understand a lot of the wording because I guess I am ignorant to much of the scientific world But I still grasped most of what you shared Debby.  I hope I am not close-minded, I like hearing your read. My final answer would be, he could be absolutely right  I have read a few of the NDE stories, and my sister had one when she almost died giving birth to her first child.  She said she was like "up toward the ceiling" watching herself and the doctors.  So there is something, much I don't know or understand.




Well that's interesting Denise!  Sounds like your sister could have been included in any of the books I've read on the subject.  

I first got interested in this sort of thing via another phenomena when a very close friend mentioned that he'd had an out of body experience (OBE) one time.  Because he's such a stable and smart guy, I didn't doubt what he experienced at all.  He said that one night after falling asleep beside his wife, he'd 'woken up' and as he was standing at the foot of the bed, feeling a little confused, he turned to look at his wife and saw someone in bed beside her.  He was really shocked when he realized that he was looking at himself!  And at that point, he 'snapped' back into himself and then really woke up.  I've read that 1 in 25 people have that kind of experience at least once in their lifetime and some folks have OBE's regularly.

So I read a bunch on OBE's and then branched out into near death experiences.

For anyone curious about OBE's, you should take a peek at three books written by Robert Monroe.  Very interesting believe me.  Test time folks:  How open minded are you?


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## Falcon (Feb 28, 2015)

I tend to go along with Lenin, who said, "God did not make man. Man made God."


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## Denise1952 (Feb 28, 2015)

Debby said:


> Well that's interesting Denise!  Sounds like your sister could have been included in any of the books I've read on the subject.
> 
> I first got interested in this sort of thing via another phenomena when a very close friend mentioned that he'd had an out of body experience (OBE) one time.  Because he's such a stable and smart guy, I didn't doubt what he experienced at all.  He said that one night after falling asleep beside his wife, he'd 'woken up' and as he was standing at the foot of the bed, feeling a little confused, he turned to look at his wife and saw someone in bed beside her.  He was really shocked when he realized that he was looking at himself!  And at that point, he 'snapped' back into himself and then really woke up.  I've read that 1 in 25 people have that kind of experience at least once in their lifetime and some folks have OBE's regularly.
> 
> ...



Another thing that interests me is that Deja Vu, I have it maybe a couple of times a year, and all my life.  I could sware I had done exactly the same thing, same surrounding etc.  Many times in places I had NEVER been before.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 28, 2015)

Falcon said:


> I tend to go along with Lenin, who said, "God did not make man. Man made God."



I go along with that when some of the religion is just too stupid for any God with infinite wisdom.  That's the only type of God I can grasp, one of infinite "everything".


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## Temperance (Feb 28, 2015)

I consider myself to be pretty open minded.  Guess I'm one of those "big city folks", but must add I wasn't into drugs.  Considered back then as a "juice head".  Hey, I'm thirsty too, make mine a Coors Light, thank you.


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## Josiah (Feb 28, 2015)

Temperance said:


> I consider myself to be pretty open minded.  Guess I'm one of those "big city folks", but must add I wasn't into drugs.  Considered back then as a "juice head".  Hey, I'm thirsty too, make mine a Coors Light, thank you.



The avatar name that you chose says it all.


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## Debby (Feb 28, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Another thing that interests me is that Deja Vu, I have it maybe a couple of times a year, and all my life.  I could sware I had done exactly the same thing, same surrounding etc.  Many times in places I had NEVER been before.





I've never had deja vu but I had a lucid dream once and that was really cool!  That's when you realize that you are asleep but in a dream and you are conscious of being 'in a dream'.  Really a neat experience and I woke up feeling very empowered.  Some people have those kinds of dreams a lot (my husband used to lucky guy!) and when you are there, you can do things deliberately that in real life are impossible...like flying and stuff.  So the minute I realized I was in my dream, my next thought was, 'what should I do that would be really fun (like flying).....and I woke up.  I was so disappointed and I've never had one since.

As to your deja vu, well maybe in some other dimension you have been there, or maybe had that experience in another lifetime or.....who really knows right?  Does that feeling last a long moment, short moment or does it last for a bit?  Methinks there are more things between heaven and earth than meets the eye!


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## Denise1952 (Feb 28, 2015)

Agreed about way more then we know  My deja vu is only for a few seconds.  And I have had the flying dream where I actually controlled some of it, also, I have woken, and been able to go back to a dream like that, not often, but I have.  I've also had the "trying to get away from whatever" and felt as if I had cement shoes on, ahhhhhhh!!


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 28, 2015)

Debby, I have lucid dreams occasionally like flying, and it's awesome to be able to acknowledge that you are dreaming and control your experience...incredible, big dreamer here.


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## jwk246 (Feb 28, 2015)

Too many folks don't question things enough.  They are rep or dem because their family or spouse is and they are catholic or meth. for the same reasons.  Folks don't question their beliefs enough.  Be open minded enough to listen to the other side of the discussion.  I won't get into Fox news. That would cause an explosion.


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## Josiah (Feb 28, 2015)

jwk246 said:


> Too many folks don't question things enough.  They are rep or dem because their family or spouse is and they are catholic or meth. for the same reasons.  Folks don't question their beliefs enough.  Be open minded enough to listen to the other side of the discussion.  I won't get into Fox news. That would cause an explosion.



The politically active members of the SF are pretty much avowedly partisan, but I think you have to give us all credit for the fact that we take our positions very seriously and we didn't come by them just because a parent or a spouse held the same position. The liberals will say that the conservatives aren't open minded and the conservatives will say the same thing about the liberals. But we do have lots of fun berating each other.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 28, 2015)

jwk246 said:


> Too many folks don't question things enough.  They are rep or dem because their family or spouse is and they are catholic or meth. for the same reasons.  Folks don't question their beliefs enough.  Be open minded enough to listen to the other side of the discussion.  I won't get into Fox news. That would cause an explosion.



This is an excellent post, and although I think that we should be passionate about what we believe, when it tears down our fellow man, well, I'm not goin there anymore, I hope.  Maybe some folks are so positive of truth, and that is neat, that they are that sure of things.  I hope even if I ever am that sure of things, I don't have to belittle anyone else that thinks differently.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 1, 2015)

Debby said:


> Well that's interesting Denise!  Sounds like your sister could have been included in any of the books I've read on the subject.
> 
> I first got interested in this sort of thing via another phenomena when a very close friend mentioned that he'd had an out of body experience (OBE) one time.  Because he's such a stable and smart guy, I didn't doubt what he experienced at all.  He said that one night after falling asleep beside his wife, he'd 'woken up' and as he was standing at the foot of the bed, feeling a little confused, he turned to look at his wife and saw someone in bed beside her.  He was really shocked when he realized that he was looking at himself!  And at that point, he 'snapped' back into himself and then really woke up.  I've read that 1 in 25 people have that kind of experience at least once in their lifetime and some folks have OBE's regularly.
> 
> ...



In the early 90's I met someone who introduced me to the books by Carlos Castaneda which made me start to question what I thought I knew, not that I took his books as total fact.  Then I started reading about OBE's and lucid dreaming. I worked hard on trying to achieve both, nearly having an OBE one night while trying to go to sleep.  Had a few lucid/semi-lucid dreams.  Very interesting experiences!  

So I'm open to just about anything unseen and unprovable being possible. Maybe there's a heaven and a hell, maybe we just rot in the ground, maybe there is reincarnation, maybe there are spirits wandering the earth.  Don't know.  Can't prove or disprove any of it.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 1, 2015)

Josiah09 said:


> The politically active members of the SF are pretty much avowedly partisan, but I think you have to give us all credit for the fact that we take our positions very seriously and we didn't come by them just because a parent or a spouse held the same position. The liberals will say that the conservatives aren't open minded and the conservatives will say the same thing about the liberals. But we do have lots of fun berating each other.



Right.  I did not become a democrat because my dad or people in my family were one.  I felt very early that Democrats were on the side of the poor and wanted to help those lesser off, and the Republicans were the opposite.  Simplistic, but that's how I felt the first time I voted in 1972 at the age of 20.  

As for religion I was raised strict catholic but by 14 I questioned everything I was being taught and rejected most of it.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 1, 2015)

Josiah09 said:


> The politically active members of the SF are pretty much avowedly partisan, but I think you have to give us all credit for the fact that we take our positions very seriously and we didn't come by them just because a parent or a spouse held the same position. The liberals will say that the conservatives aren't open minded and the conservatives will say the same thing about the liberals. But we do have lots of fun berating each other.





nwlady said:


> Another thing that interests me is that Deja Vu, I have it maybe a couple of times a year, and all my life.  I could sware I had done exactly the same thing, same surrounding etc.  Many times in places I had NEVER been before.



I'm curious about all the times when I've thought of someone I hadn't seen in years and out of the blue they walk down the street.  Or why people who are pessimistic always seem to attract negativity and crises in their lives.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 1, 2015)

Josiah09 said:


> The politically active members of the SF are pretty much avowedly partisan, but I think you have to give us all credit for the fact that we take our positions very seriously and we didn't come by them just because a parent or a spouse held the same position. The liberals will say that the conservatives aren't open minded and the conservatives will say the same thing about the liberals. But we do have lots of fun berating each other.





SeaBreeze said:


> Debby, I have lucid dreams occasionally like flying, and it's awesome to be able to acknowledge that you are dreaming and control your experience...incredible, big dreamer here.



I bought a guide on how to have lucid dreams way back in the early 90's.  I kept a dream journal and also a small tape recorder next to my bed so I could remember the dream I was having when I woke up without opening my eyes (which usually makes the memory disappear).  Throughout the day I would ask myself if I was dreaming and why I thought I was or wasn't.  Flying was something I wanted to do, and I finally did it - once. It was amazing!  I was in a chocolate shop in one dream when I realized I was dreaming and how great it was I could eat it all and not get fat!  Another time I was taking a shower and asked myself if I was dreaming.  I tasted the soap to prove I was.  

When I was driving down a motorway on a long trip alone and was a bit tired I wondered if I was dreaming and for a split second thought I might be.  That scared me!  I no longer worked on becoming lucid.


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## Debby (Mar 1, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> Debby, I have lucid dreams occasionally like flying, and it's awesome to be able to acknowledge that you are dreaming and control your experience...incredible, big dreamer here.




Very lucky, both you and Denise!  I feel jealous, reading about it and all this strange and interesting stuff and everyone else has the experience!  Well, except for that one time.  Oh well, such is life right?


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## Debby (Mar 1, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I bought a guide on how to have lucid dreams way back in the early 90's.  I kept a dream journal and also a small tape recorder next to my bed so I could remember the dream I was having when I woke up without opening my eyes (which usually makes the memory disappear).  Throughout the day I would ask myself if I was dreaming and why I thought I was or wasn't.  Flying was something I wanted to do, and I finally did it - once. It was amazing!  I was in a chocolate shop in one dream when I realized I was dreaming and how great it was I could eat it all and not get fat!  Another time I was taking a shower and asked myself if I was dreaming.  I tasted the soap to prove I was.
> 
> When I was driving down a motorway on a long trip alone and was a bit tired I wondered if I was dreaming and for a split second thought I might be.  That scared me!  I no longer worked on becoming lucid.




Sounds like your chocolate dream was a dieters delight Ameriscot.  The 'soap' one, well that's all yours.  I was listening to a podcast a couple days ago and the guy on it was talking about the dream journal that he's kept for 25 years.  I think he'd developed some kind of 'ap' to help save, organize and spot patterns in his dreams.   Maybe that's the answer, quit being lazy and start writing them down.  The tape recorder at the bedside might not work for me though because my husband is a very light sleeper and I wouldn't want to wake him.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 1, 2015)

Debby said:


> Sounds like your chocolate dream was a dieters delight Ameriscot.  The 'soap' one, well that's all yours.  I was listening to a podcast a couple days ago and the guy on it was talking about the dream journal that he's kept for 25 years.  I think he'd developed some kind of 'ap' to help save, organize and spot patterns in his dreams.   Maybe that's the answer, quit being lazy and start writing them down.  The tape recorder at the bedside might not work for me though because my husband is a very light sleeper and I wouldn't want to wake him.



The soap had no taste which was how I knew I was dreaming.  I went in and out of lucidity as the dream started as a nightmare about being late for work!    Keeping a dream journal made me very aware of my dreams.  And when I first started doing this I was using nicotine patches to quit smoking - for many it makes your dreams more vivid.  It was like being in a mini-series every night!  I stopped keeping the journal when I got to dream number 1,000.  And I had some very, very weird, interesting dreams. 

One of the good tests I remember when you ask yourself if you are dreaming is to try to read something.  It's very hard to focus your eyes and read while dreaming. 

The idea of becoming good at 'waking up in your dreams' and controlling them was that you would have more control over your daily life.


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## oakapple (Mar 1, 2015)

Nobody really knows the point of our dreaming. Sometimes I think it's just our brains having fun making bad B movies for itself to watch while we are asleep!


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## Shalimar (Mar 1, 2015)

Twice in my life I have 'awakened' in the night to see loved one's  standing at the foot of my bed. Each time, the apologized for not being able to stay. The following morning,in each instance, said loved one had died during the night. One old person, one child. I do not have a definitive explanation, it is enough to have been granted the privilege of saying good-bye. I think  this certainly qualifies me to say I am broad minded!


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## AZ Jim (Mar 1, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Twice in my life I have 'awakened' in the night to see loved one's  standing at the foot of my bed. Each time, the apologized for not being able to stay. The following morning,in each instance, said loved one had died during the night. One old person, one child. I do not have a definitive explanation, it is enough to have been granted the privilege of saying good-bye. I think  this certainly qualifies me to say I am broad minded!



Wow!  THAT is strange.  It is an established fact that we use only a tiny part of our brain and that some of us, you probably, are much more capable of the fringe areas that most of us can't access.   I know that manifestations of mind can physically be present.  I had a little cat, Annie, who spent most of her life either at my side or on my lap.  A devoted little cat who trusted me implicitly.  When she died, it broke my heart.  Several times at night, I physically felt her move on my bed where she had always slept.  Strange sensation but real none the less.


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

Josiah09 said:


> Open mindedness suggests a willingness to consider new ideas and and replace your original idea for a new one. I've changed my opinion on countless topics countless times, and because I've admitted to being wrong so many times, I've learned to be exceedingly skeptical of all ideas knowing that quite likely what I believe today I may not believe tomorrow. This variability in my belief system is not haphazard. . .  I'm just adjusting my opinions to best comply with what I understand to be reality. When I do hit upon an idea which does seem to agree with reality I stick with it. I've been an atheist since the age of 14 but if God came into my house today and performed a few simple miracles to prove who he was I stop being an atheist. I'm open minded God you just need to give me a good reason to believe in you.



Miracles occur in people not things


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

Meanderer said:


> We are the poorest judge of our own open mindedness.



as the Queen said to the mirror in snow white


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

Falcon said:


> I tend to go along with Lenin, who said, "God did not make man. Man made God."



There would be no Lenin without Rasputin


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Another thing that interests me is that Deja Vu, I have it maybe a couple of times a year, and all my life.  I could sware I had done exactly the same thing, same surrounding etc.  Many times in places I had NEVER been before.



Sometimes the self runs into it's self, serendipity


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Twice in my life I have 'awakened' in the night to see loved one's  standing at the foot of my bed. Each time, the apologized for not being able to stay. The following morning,in each instance, said loved one had died during the night. One old person, one child. I do not have a definitive explanation, it is enough to have been granted the privilege of saying good-bye. I think  this certainly qualifies me to say I am broad minded!



from "A Thousand and One Arabian Nights".  While asleep the prince looked at a small dgene at the foot of his bed, a flipped a bean at it to make it go away.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 1, 2015)

rt3 said:


> Miracles occur in people not things



So you are saying a tornado the roars into a town and destroys all the buildings except one which happens to be a church is not what we would describe as a miracle?


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## Ameriscot (Mar 1, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Wow!  THAT is strange.  It is an established fact that we use only a tiny part of our brain and that some of us, you probably, are much more capable of the fringe areas that most of us can't access.   I know that manifestations of mind can physically be present.  I had a little cat, Annie, who spent most of her life either at my side or on my lap.  A devoted little cat who trusted me implicitly.  When she died, it broke my heart.  Several times at night, I physically felt her move on my bed where she had always slept.  Strange sensation but real none the less.



That happened to me with a cat that had died.  He always jumped onto the foot of my bed to sleep at night.  A few days after he died I felt him jump onto the bed.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 1, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> That happened to me with a cat that had died.  He always jumped onto the foot of my bed to sleep at night.  A few days after he died I felt him jump onto the bed.



We don't know all we would like to know.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 1, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> We don't know all we would like to know.



I think there are too many things that happen that science can't explain which leads me to believe there is _something,_ don't know what exactly.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 1, 2015)

I cannot grasp "infinity" how can I deal with other "stuff".


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## Denise1952 (Mar 1, 2015)

Omg, another me??  LOL  I would love to know that we get another shot at life.  I often wonder if we could have at least some of the wisdom we've gained in this time around, to take with us though.  Otherwise, all the same mistakes


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> So you are saying a tornado the roars into a town and destroys all the buildings except one which happens to be a church is not what we would describe as a miracle?


any value placed on any hierarchy of buildings is subjective to real estate appraiser 
buildings don't have souls


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I think there are too many things that happen that science can't explain which leads me to believe there is _something,_ don't know what exactly.


science was not designed to explain everything, it's people's expectation of it that is the failure

when that expectation stops the something out explains itself


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## Warrigal (Mar 1, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Right.  I did not become a democrat because my dad or people in my family were one.  I felt very early that Democrats were on the side of the poor and wanted to help those lesser off, and the Republicans were the opposite.  Simplistic, but that's how I felt the first time I voted in 1972 at the age of 20.
> 
> As for religion I was raised strict catholic but by 14 I questioned everything I was being taught and rejected most of it.



It sounds like you didn't reject their social justice teachings.


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> We don't know all we would like to know.



be careful what you wish for,

from Apollinaire
come to the edge, he said
they said we are afraid
come to tht edge he said
they came , he pushed them
they flew

look before you leap


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## AZ Jim (Mar 1, 2015)

rt3 said:


> any value placed on any hierarchy of buildings is subjective to real estate appraiser
> buildings don't have souls



We were not talking relative values.  You stated  "Miracles occur in people not things".  I was responding to that.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 1, 2015)

On some things I'm _very_ open-minded.

On some other things I'm more truculent than a mule with Superglue on his feet.


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## Warrigal (Mar 1, 2015)

We noticed.

I have the same profile.
Or should I say, same but different?

I'm of two minds about this.


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> We were not talking relative values.  You stated  "Miracles occur in people not things".  I was responding to that.



Sorry I have a hard time with double negatives, wasn't referring to buildings just people. 

not sure how you got to that, if a change in a person for the better occurred because some building was left standing that would be a miracle


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> We noticed.
> 
> I have the same profile.
> Or should I say, same but different?
> ...



ya me too, but my wife calls it half-assed


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## SifuPhil (Mar 1, 2015)

rt3 said:


> ya me too, but my wife calls it half-assed



My -ex said the same thing. 

I would think it would be practically impossible to be TOTALLY open-minded on everything - we're just not built that way, and we're exposed to too many strong early influences.


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## Cookie (Mar 1, 2015)

I'd like to think I'm open minded -- and I have been open to many possibilities -- or maybe I was just gullible.


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## Warrigal (Mar 1, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I would think it would be practically impossible to be TOTALLY open-minded on everything - we're just not built that way, and we're exposed to too many strong early influences.



I think the question could also be framed "Are you fixed or flexible in your attitudes and opinions?"
Most of us would answer "A bit of both, but more often I am  ..."


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## rt3 (Mar 1, 2015)

Open mindedness may be better served by the term consciousness. The main question in our existence is if mind created matter or matter created mind. Did the consious look at itself and matter condense or the other way around. The first is an idea concept the second s material concept. The growth of consious is the reflection of our evolution. You are probably more open minded (raised consious) than your grand parents. Now take that concept and move back 1000 generations. The stars in the original Trojan war did not speak with a British accent. The bad side is we became more materialistic. The good side is that each individual can have God inside them without the need of someone owning the staircase to heaven. 
To assume that one culture is more consious because of materialism is a bad mistake. He who has the most toys does does not necessarily win.


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## Linda (Mar 1, 2015)

I am very open minded.  I grew up in rural Oregon and Washington.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 2, 2015)

Josiah09 said:


> Open mindedness suggests a willingness to consider new ideas and and replace your original idea for a new one. I've changed my opinion on countless topics countless times, and because I've admitted to being wrong so many times, I've learned to be exceedingly skeptical of all ideas knowing that quite likely what I believe today I may not believe tomorrow. This variability in my belief system is not haphazard. . .  I'm just adjusting my opinions to best comply with what I understand to be reality. When I do hit upon an idea which does seem to agree with reality I stick with it. I've been an atheist since the age of 14 but if God came into my house today and performed a few simple miracles to prove who he was I stop being an atheist. I'm open minded God you just need to give me a good reason to believe in you.



I was thinking about this last night Josiah, the open-mindedness thing, and I realized what I think it means.  Being close-minded to me, is NOT to learn, being open-minded is to be teachable.  Depending on whether I think I know everything there is to know about something (and that means I'm just not being honest with myself, and maybe incapable) which hopefully slaps me in the face and tells me "you don't know everything, yet" LOL!  If I am open-minded, it fits your post perfectly, willing to learn something new which could change my entire opinion on that subject  I realized I love learning, had a blast going back to college, I never want to lose the ability to learn something.


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## Kitties (Mar 2, 2015)

I think I'm open minded. My home town is Santa Cruz, California. And one thing I found out living there for the first 25 years of my life: some people who think they are open minded and may look open minded are some of the most narrow jerks I've ever come across.


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## Warrigal (Mar 2, 2015)

nwlady said:


> I was thinking about this last night Josiah, the open-mindedness thing, and I realized what I think it means.  Being close-minded to me, is NOT to learn, being open-minded is to be teachable.



Good observation, Denise.


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## Cookie (Mar 2, 2015)

Kitties said:


> I think I'm open minded. My home town is Santa Cruz, California. And one thing I found out living there for the first 25 years of my life: some people who think they are open minded and may look open minded are some of the most narrow jerks I've ever come across.



I've seen that too Kitties, especially among those who consider themselves highly aware.


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## Linda (Mar 2, 2015)

Cookie said:


> I've seen that too Kitties, especially among those who consider themselves highly aware.




I agree.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 2, 2015)




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## Kitties (Mar 3, 2015)

Cookie said:


> I've seen that too Kitties, especially among those who consider themselves highly aware.



Yes, very well said. And I also agree.


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## MarciKS (Apr 25, 2021)

ClassicRockr said:


> I really didn't realize just how open-minded So California was until I got out of the Navy there. Found out, fairly quickly, that I wasn't raised to be that open-minded at all. Actually, most farmer and ranchers aren't that way. Some folks would actually tell me, "you just aren't open-minded enough to live here" and I really believed them. The more I seen and heard, I knew I wasn't.
> 
> And even today, I know that I'm not that much, if any. I just don't believe in certain things that others believe in. My wife knows that I'm this way and completely understands why and in many way, is the same way. From being around the rodeo family, she really came to understand how I got this way and why my step-parents taught me to be this way. Seems to me that a lot of "big city" folks are really open-minded, compared to folks that own/run farms/ranches. There is a distinct difference between the two cultures. I'm proud to be a former farmer! Even when I played rock drums, the whole "sex, drugs, rock n roll" thing wasn't me. All I could think of after playing a gig, was......."somebody get me a beer/Bud, QUICK! Dang I'm thirsty!"
> 
> So, just how open-minded are you?


I feel like I'm somewhat open minded but for the most part things are in black and white with me. I have trouble maneuvering in those grey areas. But I'm usually pretty open to change most of the time. As for some of the world's morals...that not so much. I have my own belief system and it doesn't line up with today's perversities. I try to always listen and take everything into consideration before deciding how I feel about stuff.


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## SetWave (Apr 25, 2021)




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## Ruthanne (Apr 25, 2021)

I'm probably not open-minded enough but I try to see other points of view.


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## Dana (Apr 25, 2021)

_Open-mindedness is a positive character trait... to be able to step out of your comfort zone and consider other ideas and perspectives, the ability to welcome new ideas, arguments, and information is extremely important. Yes…I consider myself open-minded._


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## dobielvr (Apr 25, 2021)

I try to be.


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## Sassycakes (Apr 25, 2021)

I consider myself to be open-minded. I don't judge people by their race, nationality, or sexuality. I enjoy conversations with people that have different views than mine in Politics and Religion. I enjoy hearing what others think.


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## Judycat (Apr 25, 2021)

I don't know anymore. Open-minded and wishy-washy share a lot of the same territory these days. People without any convictions consider themselves to be open-minded yet they tend to become offended easily. I don't think I'm open-minded, but I could be wrong.


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## Jules (Apr 25, 2021)

Although I never knew either, I miss @SifuPhil or @AZ Jim.  Some common sense and senses, IMO.


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## MarciKS (Apr 25, 2021)

I enjoyed SifuPhil. I wish he were still here to talk to. I'd have enjoyed getting to know him.


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## Shalimar (Apr 25, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> I enjoyed SifuPhil. I wish he were still here to talk to. I'd have enjoyed getting to know him.


 Yes, you would. My late fiancé was a great person.


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## MarciKS (Apr 25, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Yes, you would. My late fiancé was a great person.


I've never had a dead man make me laugh before. *Grins*


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## Dillydal (Apr 26, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> I think the question could also be framed "Are you fixed or flexible in your attitudes and opinions?"
> Most of us would answer "A bit of both, but more often I am  ..."


I would agree and think that's a good way to phrase it. Personally, I try to be open to taking in new information and being able to change or alter my views and opinions based on that. Otherwise, you're just stuck in your way of thinking without ever adapting and I think that's a dangerous way to live life.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

About a year ago, I watched a blurb about a fascinating 96 year old man. Mentally, he was ageless. An attitude of positivity not always found in persons half his age. He was interested in people, the world around him, laughed easily and often, engaged with people of different generations. He was well informed, warm, kind, tolerant, comfortable with computers

which he said opened up the world of knowledge to him. Life was still a wondrous experience for him. I hope I remain half as open minded as this wonderful human being who, for me, became the benchmark of how to age.


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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 26, 2021)

I loved my job as a psych nurse in large psych hospital, because no two days were the same. So I guess I'm somewhat open minded. But I think we are all some what open minded about certain things, and "NO WAY' on others. It's a mixed bag.


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