# I have never been prouder



## AZ Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

than I am now as a liberal DEMOCRAT.  I see the heart of the Conservative and I don't like what I see.   I have lived on this earth and in America all of my 79 years.  I see now where we are tested, the difference between those who show the flag on their lapels but know nothing about the concept that made us what we are.  Ok, there is a difference, if being proud of our history in the taking in of the oppressed somehow makes me a bad guy in some eyes so be it.  I welcome those fleeing the unthinkable.  I am an AMERICAN and proud to be one.  If I cannot feel free to say this here, I don't want to be here.PS I don't wear the flag in my lapel, but I DID serve my tour in it's military, how many of the politicians did?


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## QuickSilver (Nov 17, 2015)

I too am appalled.   AND like you I am so proud to wear my label as a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT..  And I'm proud to embrace our history of being a compassionate and caring nation.   I don't how the opposite has become so prevalent..  It's really sad to me.   And also like you Jim.  If I am not able to voice that here.. then I will leave.


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## AZ Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

Thank you QS.


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## Shalimar (Nov 17, 2015)

It is always costly to take the high road, and adhere to one's principals when the going gets tough, isn't that what true patriotism and humanity are all about? Granted, we may have differing viewpoints as to what that entails, such is the beauty of 

a true democracy, something precious to be savoured IMHO, rather than derided. Providing we treat each other with respect, all opinions should be welcomed on the board, whether or not they are popular with the majority of posters.


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## fureverywhere (Nov 17, 2015)

High five son! It took my Dad eighty years to get there...as long as you get there is the important thing.


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## AZ Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> High five son! It took my Dad eighty years to get there...as long as you get there is the important thing.


Thanks Fur!


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## Jackie22 (Nov 17, 2015)

Another proud Democrat here, I agree with what has been said by others on this thread.


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## Lon (Nov 17, 2015)

How lovely------------A Mutual Admiration Society of Liberal Thinkers.


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## Shalimar (Nov 17, 2015)

Waslayful: that sarcasm Lon?


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## Underock1 (Nov 17, 2015)

I guess I have always had a "liberal" mentality. Long before I thought about politics or labels. Grew up in the early 30's. People were singing in the streets for money. We were poor ourselves, but Mom always had food or a few pennies when beggars knocked on the door. I could never understand what the crime was in giving people in need a helping hand instead of a kick in the ass. Now having said that, almost all of my closest friends and family have been or are conservatives. The most loving, thoughtful, generous people you would ever care to meet. Yet somehow they can not seem to see beyond the wonderfully supportive but narrow group that they have been fortunate enough to be part of. Understanding the difficulties of others, 
particularly if they are "different" in any number of ways seems to be beyond their imagination. "If I can do it, they can do it" is their mantra. The trouble is that through no fault of their own, the "they" that they are referring to, often can not. There used to be caring conservatives in our government, but I'm afraid that today the only word they seem to know is "no". No. You can't have better wages. No. You can't have affordable health care. No. You can't have an abortion. No. You can't marry the same sex. No. You can't do stem cell research. No. You can't have assisted suicide. No. You can't have medical marijuana. No. We can't let any more of _them _in. "God bless America". So long as its _our_America. All of those _other _people pushing in can go to Hell. 
I love 'em all, regardless. Happy not to be one.


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## Shalimar (Nov 17, 2015)

Very eloquent Underock. During the thirties, my grampa ran the railroad in North Battleford Saskatchewan. He had a shop of machinists working for him. My mother was the richest girl in town. Even had a playhouse in her yard, and a charge account 

in daddy's name in all the stores. Grampa was liberal, Gramma conservative. Every time they voted, they cancelled each other out. During the Depression, Grampa left all the spare produce from their garden at the bottom of the driveway where no one 

could be seen helping themselves. My Gramma fed anyone who knocked on the back door claiming to be hungry,no matter how rough they looked. Different political views, equally compassionate people. I loved my grandmother the best out of all my 

relatives. I can still hear her silvery laugh, and the synthesizer like sound of her playing the saw for me. She had perfect 
pitch, and played piano also. I have her piano.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 18, 2015)

Lon said:


> How lovely------------A Mutual Admiration Society of Liberal Thinkers.



Don't be jealous....   We will let you in... I'll send you the manual... and cookies..


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## QuickSilver (Nov 18, 2015)

My parents voted Republican... But I'm sure they would not do so today.  They were Eisenhower Republicans.. This new party defies recognition.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 18, 2015)

QS, I am familiar with the manual but please send me some cookies...


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## Underock1 (Nov 18, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Very eloquent Underock. During the thirties, my grampa ran the railroad in North Battleford Saskatchewan. He had a shop of machinists working for him. My mother was the richest girl in town. Even had a playhouse in her yard, and a charge account
> 
> in daddy's name in all the stores. Grampa was liberal, Gramma conservative. Every time they voted, they cancelled each other out. During the Depression, Grampa left all the spare produce from their garden at the bottom of the driveway where no one
> 
> ...



How wonderful for you, Shalimar. I've only seen the musical saw played on TV. Sounds like you had great grandparents. Lucky us. I'm sure they shine through in the compassionate person you are today.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 18, 2015)

I am proud to be a liberal and a democrat.  But I can't call myself a Liberal Democrat as that is a party in the UK which is more right wing than left.  Right of centre I think they say.  

My dad was always a democrat, but I think my mom often voted republican.  Not sure as she thought that was private and wouldn't tell.  One of my brothers is very left wing, the other very right wing.  My sister switched from republican to democrat because of Bush.  Both of my sons are democrats.  

My husband and I are both members of the Labour party in the UK even though we haven't been happy with them for a while.  In the last election we voted SNP - Scottish National Party.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 18, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Very eloquent Underock. During the thirties, my grampa ran the railroad in North Battleford Saskatchewan. He had a shop of machinists working for him. My mother was the richest girl in town. Even had a playhouse in her yard, and a charge account
> 
> in daddy's name in all the stores. Grampa was liberal, Gramma conservative. Every time they voted, they cancelled each other out. During the Depression, Grampa left all the spare produce from their garden at the bottom of the driveway where no one
> 
> ...



Wonderful story, Shali!


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## squatting dog (Nov 18, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> QS, I am familiar with the manual but please send me some cookies...



Careful what you ask for. A refreshing drink is needed to wash down them cookies.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 18, 2015)

I prefer grape...


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 18, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> I guess I have always had a "liberal" mentality. Long before I thought about politics or labels. Grew up in the early 30's. People were singing in the streets for money. We were poor ourselves, but Mom always had food or a few pennies when beggars knocked on the door. I could never understand what the crime was in giving people in need a helping hand instead of a kick in the ass. Now having said that, almost all of my closest friends and family have been or are conservatives. The most loving, thoughtful, generous people you would ever care to meet. Yet somehow they can not seem to see beyond the wonderfully supportive but narrow group that they have been fortunate enough to be part of. Understanding the difficulties of others,
> particularly if they are "different" in any number of ways seems to be beyond their imagination. "If I can do it, they can do it" is their mantra. The trouble is that through no fault of their own, the "they" that they are referring to, often can not. There used to be caring conservatives in our government, but I'm afraid that today the only word they seem to know is "no". No. You can't have better wages. No. You can't have affordable health care. No. You can't have an abortion. No. You can't marry the same sex. No. You can't do stem cell research. No. You can't have assisted suicide. No. You can't have medical marijuana. No. We can't let any more of _them _in. "God bless America". So long as its _our_America. All of those _other _people pushing in can go to Hell.
> I love 'em all, regardless. Happy not to be one.



Well said Underock, good thoughts there.  I am not a Democrat, but I do have left leaning views on many of the issues you've mentioned, like health care, abortion, minimum wage, gay marriage, etc.  There are a couple of things I still lean right on, which I've talked about on other threads, but won't hijack this thread and take it off topic, out of consideration to the OP.  Also, I'm always open to hearing what everyone has to say, and learning things that either enforce or go against the views I do have.

I agree that there are likely many conservatives who have hearts of gold and are thoughtful and generous.  I don't know many Republicans personally, but I've never been very political and don't generally have any interest in people's political beliefs or religions, that's never a topic of conversation in my every day social life.  The few I have been around over the years in the workplace have not had very good attributes, but I try not to paint any group of people with a broad brush and judge by just a few, that's unfair.  I do try to understand why they have the views they hold dear, whether I agree or not.

I can't even say what political party my parents belonged to, all I know is that we didn't discuss politics at all in my house as a kid, that I'm aware of.  Looking back, my parents were probably on different 'sides', and avoided discussions to keep the peace, but I may be wrong.  My older sister even to this day doesn't come out and say exactly what party she favors, but her politics are her business, and I don't care enough to pry.  Perhaps she's an Independent like me, and can see some good in both parties.


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## Shalimar (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks Annie!


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## Shalimar (Nov 18, 2015)

Underock, thank you so much, you are too kind. I am not certain what a musical saw is? Gramma played with a regular hand saw, just moving the blade back and forth, somehow pulling music out of an everyday tool.


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## BobF (Nov 18, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> Well said Underock, good thoughts there.  I am not a Democrat, but I do have left leaning views on many of the issues you've mentioned, like health care, abortion, minimum wage, gay marriage, etc.  There are a couple of things I still lean right on, which I've talked about on other threads, but won't hijack this thread and take it off topic, out of consideration to the OP.  Also, I'm always open to hearing what everyone has to say, and learning things that either enforce or go against the views I do have.
> 
> I agree that there are likely many conservatives who have hearts of gold and are thoughtful and generous.  I don't know many Republicans personally, but I've never been very political and don't generally have any interest in people's political beliefs or religions, that's never a topic of conversation in my every day social life.  The few I have been around over the years in the workplace have not had very good attributes, but I try not to paint any group of people with a broad brush and judge by just a few, that's unfair.  I do try to understand why they have the views they hold dear, whether I agree or not.
> 
> I can't even say what political party my parents belonged to, all I know is that we didn't discuss politics at all in my house as a kid, that I'm aware of.  Looking back, my parents were probably on different 'sides', and avoided discussions to keep the peace, but I may be wrong.  My older sister even to this day doesn't come out and say exactly what party she favors, but her politics are her business, and I don't care enough to pry.  Perhaps she's an Independent like me, and can see some good in both parties.



And I believe that is why our founders that helped design the Constitution to not allow parties to have any control and have specified that it is the people that must make the decisions, no federal telling the people, only our representatives that we elected making the decisions.   There are states rights that the federal can not change as that is a states responsibility.   We have no majority control in our Constitution.   It is set up so that no matter who gets the largest vote they still must listen to the others elected.   No majority here so even if the Democrats, a party, wins the most positions they must listen to the Republican, another party, when deciding how this country should go and the same in reverse.   This all happens in the Congress with the President being the final voice to accept or reject.   

Unfortunately there are times this well planned way of governing doesn't get allowed to operate.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 18, 2015)

BobF said:


> And I believe that is why our founders that helped design the Constitution did not allow parties to have any control and have specified that it is the people that must make the decisions, no federal telling the people, only our representatives that we elected making the decisions.   There are states rights that the federal can not change as that is a states responsibility.   We have no majority control in our Constitution.   It is set up so that no matter who gets the largest vote they still must listen to the others elected.   No majority here so even if the Democrats, a party, wins the most positions they must listen to the Republican, another party, when deciding how this country should go.   This all happens in the Congress with the President being the final voice to accept or reject.
> 
> Unfortunately there are times this well planned way of governing doesn't get allowed to operate.



Federal law always trumps State law or state rights... as per the Constitution.


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## Underock1 (Nov 18, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Underock, thank you so much, you are too kind. I am not certain what a musical saw is? Gramma played with a regular hand saw, just moving the blade back and forth, somehow pulling music out of an everyday tool.



That _is _what a "musical" saw is. Just an ordinary saw that the player bends as they play to get different notes. It was your Gramma's talent that made it musical.


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## Davey Jones (Nov 18, 2015)

I feel so  left out as an Independent.


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## BobF (Nov 18, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Federal law always trumps State law or state rights... as per the Constitution.



Only if they have been passed by the Congress and Congress has the power to remove them.   Per the Constitution.

We are a 'Republic' you know.   That means that only the Congress can create laws and Congress can remove those law too.   We do not allow dictators to assume our Presidency.   So it is really back to the people as our Constitution says.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Democracy_vs_Republic


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## QuickSilver (Nov 18, 2015)

BobF said:


> Only if they have been passed by the Congress and Congress has the power to remove them.   Per the Constitution.
> 
> We are a 'Republic' you know.   That means that only the Congress can create laws and Congress can remove those law too.   We do not allow dictators to assume our Presidency.   So it is really back to the people as our Constitution says.
> 
> http://www.diffen.com/difference/Democracy_vs_Republic



Can you tell me of any LAW that is NOT passed by Congress BOB?    That's why they are called LAWS... and that's why Congress is call the Legislative branch..  because they pass LAWS...  geez bob...


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## BobF (Nov 18, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Can you tell me of any LAW that is NOT passed by Congress BOB?    That's why they are called LAWS... and that's why Congress is call the Legislative branch..  because they pass LAWS...  geez bob...



You too are a twister and just use that to try to put down others.   You sure don't seem to know much till someone post a thing you can rebut.   Any problems with my post?  No.   No need for a challenge then.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 18, 2015)

Yes, Bob, we're all just twisted!


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## QuickSilver (Nov 18, 2015)

BobF said:


> *Only if they have been passed by the Congress and Congress has the power to remove them.   Per the Constitution.*
> 
> We are a 'Republic' you know.   That means that only the Congress can create laws and Congress can remove those law too.   We do not allow dictators to assume our Presidency.   So it is really back to the people as our Constitution says.
> 
> http://www.diffen.com/difference/Democracy_vs_Republic



I said that Federal law trumps State law... AND  here is what you said... "only if they have been passed by congress "

So I simply asked you if you knew of any LAWS that were NOT passed by congress...  Simple question..  do you?


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## Dudewho (Nov 18, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Federal law always trumps State law or state rights... as per the Constitution.



Unless were talking about marijuana and Colorado and other States, then it doesn't matter what federal law states.


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## Dudewho (Nov 18, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I said that Federal law trumps State law... AND  here is what you said... "only if they have been passed by congress "
> 
> So I simply asked you if you knew of any LAWS that were NOT passed by congress...  Simple question..  do you?



I do, The Affordable Care Act never pass the House of Representatives. But I believe we been through that already.


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## BobF (Nov 18, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I said that Federal law trumps State law... AND  here is what you said... "only if they have been passed by congress "
> 
> So I simply asked you if you knew of any LAWS that were NOT passed by congress...  Simple question..  do you?



There are some areas of US laws that are not from Congress and are state driven over the objections of the federal laws.   The one above points to such a thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States'_rights

Current states' rights issues include the death penalty, assisted suicide, gay marriage and the medicinal use of marijuana, the last of which is in violation of federal law. In _Gonzales v. Raich_, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the federal government, permitting the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) to arrest medical marijuana patients and caregivers. In _Gonzales v. Oregon_, the Supreme court ruled the practice of physician-assisted suicide in Oregon is legal.

These concerns have led to a movement sometimes called the State Sovereignty movement or "10th Amendment Sovereignty Movement".[SUP][30][/SUP]


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## tnthomas (Nov 18, 2015)

quicksilver said:


> my parents voted republican... But i'm sure they would not do so today.  They were eisenhower republicans.. this new party defies recognition.


qft
+1.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 19, 2015)

Dudewho said:


> Unless were talking about marijuana and Colorado and other States, then it doesn't matter what federal law states.



NO you don't understand..  Federal law STILL trumps those laws...  and the Fed could stop the sale of marijuana should they choose.. However the Justice Department has stated they would NOT interfer... Get a Republican in the White House and watch it stop. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/29/justice-medical-marijuana-laws/2727605/


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## BobF (Nov 19, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> NO you don't understand..  Federal law STILL trumps those laws...  and the Fed could stop the sale of marijuana should they choose.. However the Justice Department has stated they would NOT interfer... Get a Republican in the White House and watch it stop.
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/29/justice-medical-marijuana-laws/2727605/



A good response by someone that did not read my post.    There are some states rights that still exist.   I only gave you a quick shot at it.   Some states rights need to be around to be a check on the federal power going out of control.   These states rights were built into the Constitution but over the years some efforts have been made to remove all states rights.   Not a good thing to do.   Still a few left.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 19, 2015)

Oh sorry Bob... but you know twisted little me..  lol!!


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## AZ Jim (Nov 19, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Oh sorry Bob... but you know twisted little me..  lol!!


:goodjob:


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## Dudewho (Nov 19, 2015)

Point taken.


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