# Isn't a check the same as cash?



## debodun (Aug 12, 2020)

I've been dealing with maintenance contractors and some will give a discount if I pay in cash. I say yes, it will be cash in the form of a check. Then they usually say no discount for paying by check. To me they were always synonymous. Why do so many demand cash and most usually want 50% as a downpayment. I am dubious about that. They have your cash and no guarantee that will even return.


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2020)

Checks are not the same as cash.  We stopped taking checks in our business many years back unless it was someone we knew really, really well. Chasing bounced checks can be a serious headache and massive time waster, plus funds aren't always recovered.    

We took cash and CCs. 3% discount for cash, which was equivalent to what we paid in CC company processing fees. 

What are you doing that requires a 50% down payment?


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## debodun (Aug 12, 2020)

Home maintenance contractors - roofing mainly.


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2020)

Sounds about right.  Roofing requires a substantial investment in materials.


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## JustBonee (Aug 12, 2020)

*Isn't a check the same as cash?  *

...  only a cashier's check from the bank qualifies as cash


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## Butterfly (Aug 12, 2020)

debodun said:


> I've been dealing with maintenance contractors and some will give a discount if I pay in cash. I say yes, it will be cash in the form of a check. Then they usually say no discount for paying by check. To me they were always synonymous. Why do so many demand cash and most usually want 50% as a downpayment. I am dubious about that. They have your cash and no guarantee that will even return.



Be sure you get a receipt that says the cash you give him is a down payment for future work.  Also make sure they are reputable and licensed and insured.  

Some contractors want hard cash because they are fudging on their taxes, pay their employees in cash and don't want a paper trail.  Also, as Starsong said above, bounced checks are common.


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## win231 (Aug 12, 2020)

You should be more than dubious about a 50% deposit.  10 - 15% is what's usually required.  Anything more than that makes you less "customer" & more "victim."
I just had my house copper re-piped, new drains out to the street, new supply lines, new underground gas lines, 4 faucets, 4 toilets; over $70,000.00. Zero down.  The plumbing company said I could put 10% down if I wanted to but it's not necessary.
I also got 2 estimates on a new roof.  Both were 10% down.
And the reasons cash is preferred:  No record of payment & no IRS reporting.
https://www.lyonsroofing.com/blog/2015/december/should-i-pay-a-roofer-roofing-contractor-upfront/


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## Myquest55 (Aug 12, 2020)

Checks take too much time to clear - could take over a week before they get their ACTUAL CASH.  
We've used an ACH electronic transfer - THAT is just like cash and puts the $$ in the contractor's account, usually with in 24 hrs.


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## debodun (Aug 12, 2020)

If I gave the contractor my bank acct. info to do an ACH, he can withdraw anything.


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## win231 (Aug 12, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Sounds about right.  Roofing requires a substantial investment in materials.


Sounds about right.....if you don't mind getting ripped off.


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2020)

Bonnie said:


> *Isn't a check the same as cash?  *
> 
> ...  only a cashier's check from the bank qualifies as cash


And an astonishing number of fraudulent cashier's checks have floated around.  No way I'd accept a cashier's check.  Too many people have been burned.


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2020)

How much of a discount are they offering, @debodun?


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## debodun (Aug 12, 2020)

StarSong said:


> How much of a discount are they offering, @debodun?


$300 if I pay in cash.


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2020)

How much is the bill overall?


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## debodun (Aug 12, 2020)




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## fmdog44 (Aug 12, 2020)

Checks can be validated immediately. About 5 years ago I paid with a check to a auto repair shop for the sum of $4,600 and it took about 60 seconds to run the check through whatever system he had and I was good to go.


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## debodun (Aug 12, 2020)

How do they do that?


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## Gaer (Aug 12, 2020)

I always take checks for my artwork.  I want so badly to trust people.
I recently had some work done onmy house.  After the man finished, I said, "Thanks!  What do I owe you?"
He said, "Whatever you want."
I wrote him a check, gave it to  him and he stuck it in his pocket.  He didn't even LOOK  at it.
THAT WAS SO COOL!  I was REALLY IMPRESSED by that action!


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## Myquest55 (Aug 12, 2020)

Keeping in mind that over the past year Materials Cost have risen over 75%.  I am sure you will see estimates WAY MORE than you would expect.

Debodun - *you don't give the contractor YOUR account info *- He gives you his.  You cannot make a withdrawal - only a one-time deposit.

Win231 - if you're worried about them over charging for materials - get the materials list and place the order by phone - putting it on your credit card.  Many times the contractor gets a discount from the supplier.  Ask if you can order on his account!


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## Don M. (Aug 12, 2020)

The Important thing is dealing with a contractor who is reputable....recommendations from others you know who have hired him is by far the best.  The world is full of stories about those who "paid up front" and never saw the guy again.  

It's not unusual for a roofer to ask for some money in advance....and cash is far easier for them to use to purchase a bunch of shingles, rather than having to go to their bank and often wait for the check to clear before they get the money....that's why they prefer the cash, and often offer a discount.  And NO...a check is NOT the same as cash.


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2020)

debodun said:


> View attachment 117689


9% is a surprisingly hefty discount.  I'd be wary.  If you can pay with a credit card that might be the way to go.


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## debodun (Aug 12, 2020)

He only guarantees his workmanship for 3 years. Credit card is not an option for me.


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2020)

debodun said:


> He only guarantees his workmanship for 3 years. *Credit card is not an option for me.*


In that case, you'll be in a world of hurt if he skips out on you.


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## Pepper (Aug 12, 2020)

debodun said:


> If I gave the contractor my bank acct. info to do an ACH, he can withdraw anything.


Uhh, No.  This way you're talking about Anyone you ever gave a check to.


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## Pepper (Aug 12, 2020)

debodun said:


> How do they do that?


The banks can be reached anytime by the merchant who will give your account information and verify if you have those funds in your account.


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## win231 (Aug 12, 2020)

debodun said:


> He only guarantees his workmanship for 3 years. Credit card is not an option for me.


A 3-year warranty on a new roof should tell you all you need to know.


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## mathjak107 (Aug 13, 2020)

Bonnie said:


> *Isn't a check the same as cash?  *
> 
> ...  only a cashier's check from the bank qualifies as cash


a cashiers check can be  stopped so it is not the same as cash . they can be  counterfeited too .

we knew someone who took a bank check for a car sale ....

when the check did not clear in a few days he called the bank .. the check had been stopped ...


since he legally signed the car over  it is not a crime .

he has to track this person down and go after them civily .

the buyer and car were in the wind .


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## old medic (Aug 13, 2020)

Cash can be hid for Tax purposes... 
Also the warranty is for workmanship not the actual shingles....


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## hellomimi (Aug 13, 2020)

debodun said:


> If I gave the contractor my bank acct. info to do an ACH, he can withdraw anything.


False.

You can ask for THEIR bank routing #, checking or savings account # and transfer $ to their account. That serves as paper trail of money you paid them.


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## StarSong (Aug 13, 2020)

win231 said:


> A 3-year warranty on a new roof should tell you all you need to know.


I don't think he's doing a whole roof.  3 years is actually a pretty decent warranty for a roof repair.  

@debodun - my best advice to you is to bite the bullet and get yourself a credit card. That's the best way to financially protect yourself in situations like these. 
A 9% cash discount tells me this contractor is shady. I'd pass.


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## Pepper (Aug 13, 2020)

StarSong said:


> A 9% cash discount tells me this contractor is shady. I'd pass.


What if he overinflated the price to offer a discount when his price is generally the lower price.  You were in retail (me too) and that is done all the time before a sale, giving the appearance of one when a sale, or discount, really doesn't exist.


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## debodun (Aug 13, 2020)

That always bothers me, too. That say they are giving you a "senior discount" but never tell what the original price was.


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## StarSong (Aug 13, 2020)

Pepper said:


> What if he overinflated the price to offer a discount when his price is generally the lower price.  You were in retail (me too) and that is done all the time before a sale, giving the appearance of one when a sale, or discount, really doesn't exist.


But this is a discount only being offered for cash.


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## Camper6 (Aug 13, 2020)

Reason for cash? It can't be traced like checks or other.


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## Gary O' (Aug 13, 2020)

*Isn't a check the same as cash?*

 Uh, no

For clarification;




Tomorrow we'll discuss the difference in debit and credit cards


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## hellomimi (Aug 13, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I don't think he's doing a whole roof.  3 years is actually a pretty decent warranty for a roof repair.
> 
> @debodun - my best advice to you is to bite the bullet and get yourself a credit card. That's the best way to financially protect yourself in situations like these.
> A 9% cash discount tells me this contractor is shady. I'd pass.


I hope deb listens to you about getting a credit card. An advantage of paying with it is protection from shadey merchants. IME, i have VISA, MC and Discover Miles cards. The latter is the easiest one to deal with, their customer service is based in the U.S. A few times I called them to dispute irregular charges,  they acted quickly in my favor. PLUS, most CCs offer a bonus reward for signing up and meeting required spend the first 90 days. 

Deb, check different CCs and the type of rewards you want. Cashback may appeal to you if you're not interested in FF miles or hotel points.


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 13, 2020)

Another vote for drawing up a simple receipt and having the roofer sign for the cash.  

I would also encourage you to jot down the license plate number of any stranger that comes to your property.

If something is damaged, turns up missing, etc... at least you have a starting point to track them down.


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## Pepper (Aug 13, 2020)

StarSong said:


> But this is a discount only being offered for cash.


Right.  If the customer takes the other option the price is higher.  The vendor has a price already in mind and knows how high or low (s)he goes.


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## win231 (Aug 13, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> *Isn't a check the same as cash?*
> 
> Uh, no
> 
> ...


Aw, C'mon.  The least you can do is make it clear.


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## Barbiegirl (Aug 19, 2020)

debodun said:


> He only guarantees his workmanship for 3 years. Credit card is not an option for me.



What is the warranty on the actual materials? Make sure they provide you with both the materials warranty and the labor/workmanship warranty _before_ you sign the contract, and look the warranties over carefully.

Also, just a heads up with roofers: you'll want them to represent in writing whether they are using sub-contractors on your project, and to clarify the insurance and liability for those subs. Check the contractor's license and insurance, too, and get a copy of his current insurance policy for proof. You'd be surprised how often "licensed and insured" contractors will quote on a project, but their license and/or insurance has expired and they "didn't realize it". 

Also for your protection, the contract should state that final payment will only be remitted upon a release of lien from the contractor AND HIS SUBS (if applicable). If a contractor ever balks at including this in your contract, run for the hills.

Sorry if you've already got all this covered, but thought I'd share just in case. Dealing with contractors is a real feat! Hope your roof turns out great.


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## debodun (Aug 19, 2020)

The more estimates I get, the more confusing it is. Some offer one thing and not another and all different prices.


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## debodun (Aug 19, 2020)

I don't understand this statement, please explain in simpler terms:

Also for your protection, the contract should state that final payment will only be remitted upon a release of lien from the contractor AND HIS SUBS (if applicable). 

What lien is that?


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## Butterfly (Aug 19, 2020)

debodun said:


> If I gave the contractor my bank acct. info to do an ACH, he can withdraw anything.



Well you don't just give him the number, Deb.  He gives you his number and you authorize YOUR bank to transfer a certain amount to his.


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## Butterfly (Aug 19, 2020)

debodun said:


> I don't understand this statement, please explain in simpler terms:
> 
> Also for your protection, the contract should state that final payment will only be remitted upon a release of lien from the contractor AND HIS SUBS (if applicable).
> 
> What lien is that?



Here it is called a mechanics' and materialmen's lien.  It can be filed against your house if you fail to pay the contractor or if he fails to pay his subcontractors or people who supplied materials.    If the contractor skips or fails to pay those subcontractors, etc., and they file those liens, it can be extremely difficult for the homeowner to get those liens released.  Many times the homeowner is stuck paying them off in order to clear title or prevent foreclosure of the liens.

It's a minefield, which is one of the reasons you want to be sure your contractor is in compliance with local licensure and insurance regulations.  Also be aware that if the contractor/subcontractor doesn't have proper workmen's compensation insurance and one of the people working on the roof falls off and breaks his neck, you might be liable, depending on the laws in your state.

Major contracting work is not something to be undertaken only based on the lowest price, because that lowest price may mean that the contractor may not be legally compliant.

Additionally, in most places, a local building/renovation/home improvement permit must be obtained by the contractor before he does the work and a local compliance inspector will be required to sign off on the work.  If it isn't up to code you can be forced to undo it and start over.

As I said, it's a minefield.


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 6, 2020)

No...checks can bounce. Cash does not.


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## mathjak107 (Sep 7, 2020)

checks leave a paper trail for the irs ...cash does not


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## Ferocious (Sep 7, 2020)

Gaer said:


> I always take checks for my artwork.  I want so badly to trust people.
> I recently had some work done onmy house.  After the man finished, I said, "Thanks!  What do I owe you?"
> He said, "Whatever you want."
> I wrote him a check, gave it to  him and he stuck it in his pocket.  He didn't even LOOK  at it.
> THAT WAS SO COOL!  I was REALLY IMPRESSED by that action!


*Hmmmm........The bikini probably helped.  *


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## Keesha (Sep 7, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> No...checks can bounce. Cash does not.





mathjak107 said:


> checks leave a paper trail for the irs ...cash does not


Two of the most important things.
Cash can be tax free and guaranteed to be good. If I pay my groomer cash, she gets more of a tip than if I pay through my bank card. Many people prefer to be paid  this way so I try and give businesses the choice.


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## mathjak107 (Sep 7, 2020)

well evading income tax is never a good thing ....


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## Mr. Ed (Sep 7, 2020)

Last I checked


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## Keesha (Sep 7, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


> well evading income tax is never a good thing ....


That’s their choice though, not mine.


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## kburra (Sep 7, 2020)

Pay by *cheque* rarely takes a few days to clear normally!!


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## debodun (Sep 7, 2020)

If a contractor can do a job for $2900 cash why can't he do it for the same amount if I pay by check?


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 7, 2020)

He could and he might if he felt comfortable with the person he was dealing with.

People on both sides of a transaction pick up a vibe from each other that drives the way they approach an agreement.

Wait until he is done and hand him a check for $2,900.00 made payable to cash.


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## Jules (Sep 7, 2020)

debodun said:


> If a contractor can do a job for $2900 cash why can't he do it for the same amount if I pay by check?



If he’s been stung before by a cheque that has insufficient funds, it’s his choice.  It’s a lot of effort and fighting to hopefully get his payment.  There’s risk involved with a cheque.


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## StarSong (Sep 7, 2020)

Jules said:


> If he’s been stung before by a cheque that has insufficient funds, it’s his choice.  It’s a lot of effort and fighting to hopefully get his payment.  There’s risk involved with a cheque.


Agreed.  As the owner of a small business I got tired of chasing people for bad checks and eventually stopped taking checks altogether. 

No way I'd take a check from someone for $2900 unless it was someone I knew very, very well. A stranger?  Not a chance.


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## Autumn (Sep 7, 2020)

debodun said:


> Home maintenance contractors - roofing mainly.


The roofers my husband used to deal with took 30% before starting the job, 30% at a prearranged half-way point and 30% upon completion of the job, which is standard in this area.


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## debodun (Sep 7, 2020)

Many of them do that I've dealt with.  I asked one why is that. He said that he needed cash money to show when he hired his workers and to buy supplies.  I can't understand that. If they are running a business in such a short shoestring, that is someone I don't want working for me. I never pay until the work is one to my satisfaction.


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## Mrs. Robinson (Sep 7, 2020)

debodun said:


> I don't understand this statement, please explain in simpler terms:
> 
> Also for your protection, the contract should state that final payment will only be remitted upon a release of lien from the contractor AND HIS SUBS (if applicable).
> 
> What lien is that?



A lien is something a contractor`s vendors will place on your property to ensure that they are paid for their materials in the event the contractor "disappears".

Years ago,(40 in fact) we had an addition done to our home.We used a contractor referred to us by our neighbor,who was also hubby`s best buddy. We then became friends with the contractor and his wife as well-we were all the same age (late 20s) and had BBQs and dinners out together.

One day,hubby`s buddy called to warn us that Bill had told him that he was leaving the area-in spite of the fact that he and his wife had been born and raised in that town-parents were still there and all that.So he recommended that we check with the lumber yard to make sure that the materials bill had been paid. I called,and they wouldn`t even check for me. They said "Bill D? oh he`s fine,he`s good.He always pays his bills." Well within less than a week they were calling me to ask if I knew where he was-that he had NOT paid his bill and his phone was disconnected. Within days,we had lien notices placed on our front door-from the roofer,the window guy,the plumber and so on.Luckily,none of them had filed a pre-lien when the materials were ordered,so they were out of luck. The lumber yard was the only one that had,but I guess after my phone call warning them,they didn`t dare.

Also,in the end,I think that his dad jumped on him because given that they share the same name,Dad was getting a lot of the phone calls looking for him.


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## debodun (Sep 7, 2020)

How can you make sure this doesn't happen?


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## Mrs. Robinson (Sep 7, 2020)

debodun said:


> How can you make sure this doesn't happen?



By checking with any vendor who has filed a pre-lien before paying your contractor. They can give you a lien release.


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## StarSong (Sep 7, 2020)

Mrs. Robinson said:


> By checking with any vendor who has filed a pre-lien before paying your contractor. They can give you a lien release.


Exactly.  Before making final payment you get copies of lien releases for materials and from subcontractors.


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