# Here's a young woman describing the experience of being taken to and held at one of Australia's Covid Internment Camps.



## Murrmurr (Dec 2, 2021)




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## Irwin (Dec 2, 2021)




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## Shero (Dec 2, 2021)

You should be ashamed of yourself Murmur. I thought you had more intelligence than to put up a FAKE video by someone who was not even in quarantine at Howard Springs. She works for Unherd, the BS media of fake news. Shame!

This is the real Howard Springs. People who stayed here are given every facility to be as comfortable as possible. They are NOT offered drugs unless they see a psychologist who determines whether they are faking it or not. Each room has a porch as you can see in the video.  It is NOT a prison! All pathetic lies!


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 2, 2021)

Shero said:


> You should be ashamed of yourself Murmur. I thought you had more intelligence than to put up a FAKE video by someone who was not even in quarantine at Howard Springs. She works for Unherd, the BS media of fake news. Shame!
> 
> This is the real Howard Springs. People who stayed here are given every facility to be as comfortable as possible. They are NOT offered drugs unless they see a psychologist who determines whether they are faking it or not. Each room has a porch as you can see in the video.  It is NOT a prison! All pathetic lies!


Thank you Shero, I smelled the fake immediately.  I thought he was better than that.


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## Shero (Dec 2, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Thank you Shero, I smelled the fake immediately.  I thought he was better than that.


So did I SeaBreeze.
I cannot stand by and watch someone tell such blatant lies.


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## dseag2 (Dec 2, 2021)

Shameful.  Is UnHerd the Newsmax of Australia?


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 2, 2021)

Shero said:


> So did I SeaBreeze.
> I cannot stand by and watch someone tell such blatant lies.


I respect you for that.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 2, 2021)

@Shero 

I'd never heard of Unheard, so _if_ there's any lying, it's coming from them, not me. But I'll definitely look into it.

Aside from that....Ok, so there ARE covid internment camps in Australia??? That's absolutely appalling!


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## Shero (Dec 2, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> @Shero
> 
> I'd never heard of Unheard, so _if_ there's any lying, it's coming from them, not me. But I'll definitely look into it.
> 
> Aside from that....Ok, so there ARE covid internment camps in Australia??? That's absolutely appalling!


.
 You never heard of "Unherd"?   Yet you post a BS video by them and you need an eyetest Murmur. Look on the left hand side of the video and you will see the name : "Unherd."

There are also 5 star hotels for quarantine arrivals in Australia and it appears you do not even know the meaning of the word "internment".  What is internment? Do you know? No, you do not know! Australia has the highest reputation in the world for accommmodating overseas travellers during covid.

Now let me tell you this, as an American citizen myself (as well as French) I am deeply ashamed of you telling such lies! 
Forgot to mention these so called "internment" camps (haha) are not free, the people who use them PAY.
.


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## Shero (Dec 2, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> Shameful.  Is UnHerd the Newsmax of Australia?


It is a propaganda machine for BS which Murmur seems to love!


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## Murrmurr (Dec 2, 2021)

Shero said:


> .
> You never heard of "Unherd"?   Yet you post a BS video by them and you need an eyetest Murmur. Look on the left hand side of the video and you will see the name : "Unherd."
> 
> There are also 5 star hotels for quarantine arrivals in Australia and it appears you do not even know the meaning of the word "internment".  What is internment? Do you know? No, you do not know! Australia has the highest reputation in the world for accommmodating overseas travellers during covid.
> ...


Again, I'll look into Unherd. You may be right, but obviously I'm not going to take your word for it. You said this woman has never been to the Howard Springs Center, but she _filmed_ as she left and while she was there.

@Shero . Your posts are insulting, baseless, and sometimes disgusting. Not only here, but everywhere.
(I have you on ignore, of course, but there's a nifty feature that lets me see your comments anyway, if I want to.)

I have nothing to be ashamed of. I would only be ashamed if I were you.


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## Warrigal (Dec 3, 2021)

Howard Springs is the only facility even approaching a built for purpose quarantine facility. It's not ideal but it is better than the 5 star hotels when the air conditioning actually spreads the virus. Tourist hotels may sound great but being confined in one of their bedrooms for 2 weeks is pretty unbearable without fresh air and room to stretch your legs for a bit of exercise. Especially if you are in there with your children.

It's hot in Darwin and quarantine is tough but the people who were allowed into Australia when our borders were mostly closed knew that that was one of the conditions of entry. They also knew that they would be charged for the accommodation, not compensated for their time.

The story about losing her job is nonsense too. If she was Australian who had not been overseas and found to be a close contact of someone with Covid, she would have been required to self quarantine at home, with support, and could have resumed her job when it was over. If self isolation was not possible, she would have been admitted to a quarantine hotel at no expense


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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Again, I'll look into Unherd. You may be right, but obviously I'm not going to take your word for it. You said this woman has never been to the Howard Springs Center, but she _filmed_ as she left and while she was there.
> 
> @Shero . Your posts are insulting, baseless, and sometimes disgusting. Not only here, but everywhere.
> (I have you on ignore, of course, but there's a nifty feature that lets me see your comments anyway, if I want to.)
> ...


 I am very happy to be me, thank you! Very happy indeed! Have a good life Murmur!
.


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## chic (Dec 3, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> @Shero
> 
> I'd never heard of Unheard, so _if_ there's any lying, it's coming from them, not me. But I'll definitely look into it.
> 
> Aside from that....Ok, so there ARE covid internment camps in Australia??? That's absolutely appalling!


Unherd is not a fake. Sayers travels all over the world and interviews some very interesting people about the pandemic and how it has impacted their lives. He also speaks to virologists and epidemiologists. On the plus side, Australians are finally protesting for themselves. It's good to see. And yes, Howard Springs is real and is a detainment camp. 

It is appalling. No world leaders are speaking out against Australia and they should be.


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## Tish (Dec 3, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


>


Well, I see you have managed to get yourself in trouble once again lol
Tsk tsk tsk, naughty boy.


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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)

.
Hayley Hodgson together with *seven* other people were in very close contact with someone who had covid.

*All the others were given the option to self-quarantine in their own homes for the 14 days, but not Hayley.*

Why? Because when the police asked her if she had a test done – she said Yes! They went away and checked her records. They found out she had lied.

*She lied to the police.* Lying to the police is serious not only in Australia but in America and rest of the world. That is why she was sent to Howard Springs. 

She is lucky it was there and not the lock-up.
.


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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)

chic said:


> Unherd is not a fake. Sayers travels all over the world and interviews some very interesting people about the pandemic and how it has impacted their lives. He also speaks to virologists and epidemiologists. On the plus side, Australians are finally protesting for themselves. It's good to see. And yes, Howard Springs is real and is a detainment camp.
> 
> It is appalling. No world leaders are speaking out against Australia and they should be.



Many countries have congratulated Australia on the way they have handled the pandemic.
.


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## Alice November (Dec 3, 2021)

I wouldn't know if this Covid Camp is real or not, yet the whole idea of such a thing is pretty grim.  Even a 'nice' version of it reminds me of other 'Camps' I'd rather not think about.


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## StarSong (Dec 3, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Howard Springs is the only facility even approaching a built for purpose quarantine facility. It's not ideal but it is better than the 5 star hotels when the air conditioning actually spreads the virus. Tourist hotels may sound great but being confined in one of their bedrooms for 2 weeks is pretty unbearable without fresh air and room to stretch your legs for a bit of exercise. Especially if you are in there with your children.
> 
> It's hot in Darwin and quarantine is tough but the people who were allowed into Australia when our borders were mostly closed knew that that was one of the conditions of entry. They also knew that they would be charged for the accommodation, not compensated for their time.
> 
> The story about losing her job is nonsense too. If she was Australian who had not been overseas and found to be a close contact of someone with Covid, she would have been required to self quarantine at home, with support, and could have resumed her job when it was over. If self isolation was not possible, she would have been admitted to a quarantine hotel at no expense


Thank you for the clear, undramatized explanation.

I think AU has generally gotten things right with its response to Covid. Far better than most countries, my own included.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 3, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Howard Springs is the only facility even approaching a built for purpose quarantine facility. It's not ideal but it is better than the 5 star hotels when the air conditioning actually spreads the virus. Tourist hotels may sound great but being confined in one of their bedrooms for 2 weeks is pretty unbearable without fresh air and room to stretch your legs for a bit of exercise. Especially if you are in there with your children.
> 
> It's hot in Darwin and quarantine is tough but the people who were allowed into Australia when our borders were mostly closed knew that that was one of the conditions of entry. They also knew that they would be charged for the accommodation, not compensated for their time.
> 
> The story about losing her job is nonsense too. If she was Australian who had not been overseas and found to be a close contact of someone with Covid, she would have been required to self quarantine at home, with support, and could have resumed her job when it was over. If self isolation was not possible, she would have been admitted to a quarantine hotel at no expense


Thank you for explaining the facts Warrigal, refreshing to hear some truth and reality in these covid threads here.  More people would benefit from your knowledge if they had an open mind, but unfortunately they don't seem to.


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## Sunny (Dec 3, 2021)

Aside from the obviously made-up story from the fake news media, my first reaction was that she needs to go back to acting school.  She was so totally unbelievable!


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## Irwin (Dec 3, 2021)

I refuse to watch anything featuring people with rings in their noses. Yuck.


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## CarolfromTX (Dec 3, 2021)

Oh good Lord. That’s appalling!!!  Interment camps! I’m sure there were people who applauded locking up Japanese Americans during WWII. Didnt make it right!
  It’s crazy!


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## John cycling (Dec 3, 2021)

Posts #3, 5, 9 and 10:


Shero said:


> a FAKE video by someone who was not even in quarantine at Howard Springs. *<-- [A lie, because the woman was there.]*





Shero said:


> I cannot stand by and watch someone tell such blatant lies.





Shero said:


> I am deeply ashamed of you telling such lies!





Shero said:


> It is a propaganda machine for BS which Murmur seems to love!  *<-- [False Accusation & Personal Attack.]*


Post #16:


Shero said:


> . . . That is why she was sent to Howard Springs. *<-- [Admitting that the woman was there, and therefore that the video is not fake.]*


= = = = =
Now in Post #31 she's at it again:


Shero said:


> The girl lied. She was taken to Howard Springs. She has a grudge against the police because she* lied.*
> It is not good to tell lies. Sooner or later they will be found out. The truth always wins!!!!


Now Shero is saying that the woman, not Shero, is the one who lied - and said that she wasn't there???   
No, Shero, that was YOU who said that she wasn't there.   It's not good to tell lies.


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## Jules (Dec 3, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Tourist hotels may sound great but being confined in one of their bedrooms for 2 weeks is pretty unbearable without fresh air and room to stretch your legs for a bit of exercise. Especially if you are in there with your children.


Howard Springs would be preferable.


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## chic (Dec 3, 2021)

Jules said:


> Howard Springs would be preferable.


Holding anyone against their will is never preferable.


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## Jules (Dec 3, 2021)

chic said:


> Holding anyone against their will is never preferable.



If you go into a country knowing that there are quarantine restrictions, you accept the rules.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 3, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Howard Springs is the only facility even approaching a built for purpose quarantine facility. It's not ideal but it is better than the 5 star hotels when the air conditioning actually spreads the virus. Tourist hotels may sound great but being confined in one of their bedrooms for 2 weeks is pretty unbearable without fresh air and room to stretch your legs for a bit of exercise. Especially if you are in there with your children.
> 
> It's hot in Darwin and quarantine is tough but the people who were allowed into Australia when our borders were mostly closed knew that that was one of the conditions of entry. They also knew that they would be charged for the accommodation, not compensated for their time.
> 
> The story about losing her job is nonsense too. If she was Australian who had not been overseas and found to be a close contact of someone with Covid, she would have been required to self quarantine at home, with support, and could have resumed her job when it was over. If self isolation was not possible, she would have been admitted to a quarantine hotel at no expense


Thanks, Warrigal!


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## win231 (Dec 3, 2021)

Shero said:


> I am very happy to be me, thank you! Very happy indeed! Have a good life Murmur!
> .


You don't realize that your nastiness is a cover-up for your shame & your low self esteem.


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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)




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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)

John cycling said:


> Posts #3, 5, 9 and 10:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Posting willy nilly without knowing the facts makes you a what????

The girl lied. She was taken to Howard Springs. She has a grudge against the police because she* lied.*

She then approached UnHerd to" tell her story" - of course they welcomed her. She worked with them to make the propaganda video.

It is not good to tell lies. Sooner or later they will be found out. The truth always wins!!!!  Now she has no job.
.


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## Pepper (Dec 3, 2021)

Shero said:


> It is not good to tell lies. Sooner or later they will be found out. *The truth always wins!!!!*
> .


You haven't been stateside in too long.  Time to come home now.


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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)

win231 said:


> You don't realize that your nastiness is a cover-up for your shame & your low self esteem.



The day I take any notice of what you say win - is - the day hell freezes over a million times !!!!
.


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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)

Pepper said:


> You haven't been stateside in too long.  Time to come home now.


What do you mean Pepper?
.


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## Pepper (Dec 3, 2021)

Shero said:


> What do you mean Pepper?
> .


My great fear, Shero, is that one who lies can be a stiff competitor to the truth.  It is scary to me, but since we won't discuss politics here is all I can say.

Maybe you're better off being away, I don't have that option anymore.


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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)

Pepper said:


> My great fear, Shero, is that one who lies can be a stiff competitor to the truth.  It is scary to me, but since we won't discuss politics here is all I can say.
> 
> Maybe you're better off being away, I don't have that option anymore.


Okay Pepper, I think I understand


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## Irwin (Dec 3, 2021)

Some people don't want to hear the truth. Bleh. I'm tired of this crap.


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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)

Alice November said:


> I wouldn't know if this Covid Camp is real or not, yet the whole idea of such a thing is pretty grim.  Even a 'nice' version of it reminds me of other 'Camps' I'd rather not think about.


 If you do not "know"  - then why comment about it ??


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## palides2021 (Dec 3, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


>


My sister lives in Australia and I have sent her this video to see if it's true. If she says it's true, then it's true. She's been telling me about everything going on there and they really have it bad. They will get fined if they are not vaccinated.


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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> My sister lives in Australia and I have sent her this video to see if it's true. If she says it's true, then it's true. She's been telling me about everything going on there and they really have it bad. They will get fined if they are not vaccinated.



I also live in Australia and I have a wonderful life down under. I sail, I love the place so much we recently bought a house. As soon as travel is freer from France, our sons and grandchildren will be visiting.

I also say, I agree with everything the Australian government does to keep its citizens safe. Everything!!!


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## Warrigal (Dec 3, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> My sister lives in Australia and I have sent her this video to see if it's true. If she says it's true, then it's true. She's been telling me about everything going on there and they really have it bad. They will get fined if they are not vaccinated.


You don't get fines for being not vaccinated. You may (or may not) be fined for making false declarations about your vaccination status or for insisting on entering premises where proof of vaccination is required or otherwise flouting the mandated restrictions.

All you need to know is here from a legal aid site -

COVID-19 and fines | Victoria Legal Aid


> Why was I fined?​The Victorian government has declared a state of emergency and given new powers to the Chief Health Officer. The Chief Health Officer, or the person they authorise, can make directions that must be followed, the same as laws.
> 
> The directions everyone must follow change regularly. To see what directions apply now, see directions issued by the Chief Health Officer.
> 
> ...


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## Shero (Dec 3, 2021)

Fast forward to *6.31* if you wish to see inside one of the cabins at Howard Springs. This guy came from India, he was put up first in a five star hotel, then taken to Darwin. He does not look imprisoned to me !!!







Another prisoner at Howard Springs  
.


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## Warrigal (Dec 3, 2021)

Quote;  "It hasn't been all that bad" and he gets to have the occasional swim.


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## Irwin (Dec 3, 2021)

I've been trying to get an appointment to get a booster shot and there seems to be a shortage. King Sooper's doesn't have any openings, for the Pfizer brand shot anyway. I managed to get an appointment two weeks from today at a Walgreens after not grabbing two other openings fast enough. I checked on Google maps where the Walgreens was located and by the time I tried to book it, somebody else had taken it. That happened twice. I got in on the third try at a not so convenient time or location, but I figured I'd better grab it before it was gone.

So if there's such a scarce supply, why the hell are we shipping vaccines overseas?


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## win231 (Dec 3, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I've been trying to get an appointment to get a booster shot and there seems to be a shortage. King Sooper's doesn't have any openings, for the Pfizer brand shot anyway. I managed to get an appointment two weeks from today at a Walgreens after not grabbing two other openings fast enough. I checked on Google maps where the Walgreens was located and by the time I tried to book it, somebody else had taken it. That happened twice. I got in on the third try at a not so convenient time or location, but I figured I'd better grab it before it was gone.
> 
> So if there's such a scarce supply, why the hell are we shipping vaccines overseas?


Maybe they're paying more overseas.


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## Warrigal (Dec 3, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I've been trying to get an appointment to get a booster shot and there seems to be a shortage. King Sooper's doesn't have any openings, for the Pfizer brand shot anyway. I managed to get an appointment two weeks from today at a Walgreens after not grabbing two other openings fast enough. I checked on Google maps where the Walgreens was located and by the time I tried to book it, somebody else had taken it. That happened twice. I got in on the third try at a not so convenient time or location, but I figured I'd better grab it before it was gone.
> 
> So if there's such a scarce supply, why the hell are we shipping vaccines overseas?


I would suggest that there may be a limit to how much a Walmart can handle in one day.
It it a mass vaccination centre with lots of trained staff?


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## Jules (Dec 3, 2021)

@Irwin, it’s more likely a shortage of the staff to administer the dose.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 3, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> My sister lives in Australia and I have sent her this video to see if it's true. If she says it's true, then it's true. She's been telling me about everything going on there and they really have it bad. They will get fined if they are not vaccinated.


Thanks, that would be cool.


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## Shero (Dec 4, 2021)

Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis announced mandatory Covid-19 vaccination for all Greeks above 60 years of age before a cabinet meeting in Athens on Tuesday, in an effort to tackle the new omicron variation threat ahead of the festive season.

Those who refuse to get vaccinated will have to pay a monthly fine of 100 euros ($114) for each month they don’t get jabbed, starting on Jan. 16, according to Mitsotakis. The penalty will be imposed by the tax authorities directly to those who haven’t been inoculated and the funds collected will be given to Greek hospitals fighting the pandemic. “It is not a punishment,” Mitsotakis said. “I would say it is a health fee.”

In Greece, only 60,000 among the 580,000 unvaccinated people over 60 years old received the vaccine in November. Greece’s vaccination ratio in this age group is around 83% compared to Portugal’s 98%, Mitsotakis said.






.


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## Pauline1954 (Dec 4, 2021)

Shero said:


> It is a propaganda machine for BS which Murmur seems to love!





SeaBreeze said:


> I respect you for that.


Thats harsh, really. Blatant lies. Come on where is your sense of  consideration in a conversation. Not everyone that posts the opposite of your standing are spreading lies. You are so quick to denigrate others which is an unattractive characteristic to have.  Maybe try a little less punishment without proof when responding to others.


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## chic (Dec 4, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Thanks, that would be cool.


How do you know if it would be true or not? I doubt they will advertise any nefarious activity. Or even admit to it.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 4, 2021)

chic said:


> How do you know if it would be true or not? I doubt they will advertise any nefarious activity. Or even admit to it.


I wouldn't know - I'd have to dig around, but I am curious.

It's true, you have to dig a little deep to separate fact from fiction and, say, science from assertions. And you can't immediately rely on just one or two sources, you have to look at their associates, affiliates, and sponsors and stuff. But reliable sources _are_ out there, and it's kind of fun when I come across them. It's like scratching off a winning lottery ticket.


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## Shero (Dec 4, 2021)

Pauline1954 said:


> Thats harsh, really. Blatant lies. Come on where is your sense of  consideration in a conversation. Not everyone that posts the opposite of your standing are spreading lies. You are so quick to denigrate others which is an unattractive characteristic to have.  Maybe try a little less punishment without proof when responding to others.



I have no qualms to denounce anyone who spreads misinformation, none!!
Lies at this time in our history are dangerous and must be stopped.
It is not cool to tell lies, beause sooner or later you will be found out.
.


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## Shero (Dec 4, 2021)

Hands up any of you who have been to Darwin??
I have!!!!!!


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## Shero (Dec 4, 2021)

Jules said:


> If you go into a country knowing that there are quarantine restrictions, you accept the rules.



Absolutely!! Thank you Jules for a sensible and intelligent comment.
.


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## Shero (Dec 4, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> My sister lives in Australia and I have sent her this video to see if it's true. If she says it's true, then it's true. She's been telling me about everything going on there and they really have it bad. They will get fined if they are not vaccinated.


.
Palides, have you heard from your sister?  Has she ever visited Darwin? Has she visited Howard Springs herself?
.


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## Irwin (Dec 4, 2021)

Shero said:


> I have no qualms to denounce anyone who spreads misinformationm none!!
> Lies at this time in our history are dangerous and must be stopped.
> It is not cool to tell lies, beause sooner or later you will be found out.
> .


Not necessarily. If authoritarians gain more power, they'll control the media, which means they'll control what defines reality. That's what happened in Nazi Germany. The Nazis controlled all media. A lot of people — probably the vast majority — had no idea what was going on.


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## Shero (Dec 4, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Not necessarily. If authoritarians gain more power, they'll control the media, which means they'll control what defines reality. That's what happened in Nazi Germany. The Nazis controlled all media. A lot of people — probably the vast majority — had no idea what was going on.


Good point!


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## Warrigal (Dec 4, 2021)

Shero said:


> Hands up any of you who have been to Darwin??
> I have!!!!!!


Me too. Howard Springs is nothing like  the old Fanny Bay Gaol


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 4, 2021)

Pauline1954 said:


> Thats harsh, really. Blatant lies. Come on where is your sense of  consideration in a conversation. Not everyone that posts the opposite of your standing are spreading lies. You are so quick to denigrate others which is an unattractive characteristic to have.  Maybe try a little less punishment without proof when responding to others.


Neither Shero or myself demand that anyone agrees with us.  I said I respected her for standing up for the truth and calling out the dangerous disinformation and conspiracies regarding this deadly worldwide pandemic, and I stand by that statement.

  You have called me a Bot for calling out your nonsense, so you have no room to talk about unattractive characteristics here, do you?  I personally don't demand anyone agree with me, we all are entitled to our opinions and many times I have agreed to disagree with others, no big deal.

Here's just one example of the lies you've posted, and you think others should accept such blatant disinformation during a pandemic that is killing thousands just in our country alone, is not very realistic and very selfish of you IMO.

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/doc-wont-see-patients-if-no-vax.63594/#post-1839559
Your false claim in Post #4.
Truthful replies in Posts #5,7,11,15.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 4, 2021)

Shero said:


> I have no qualms to denounce anyone who spreads misinformation, none!!
> Lies at this time in our history are dangerous and must be stopped.
> It is not cool to tell lies, beause sooner or later you will be found out.
> .


Couldn't agree more.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 4, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Not necessarily. If authoritarians gain more power, they'll control the media, which means they'll control what defines reality. That's what happened in Nazi Germany. The Nazis controlled all media. A lot of people — probably the vast majority — had no idea what was going on.


I've seen this country headed in that direction over the past several years, unfortunate to see some wanting that here in the USA.


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## Irwin (Dec 4, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> I've seen this country headed in that direction over the past several years, unfortunate to see some wanting that here in the USA.


Yep, that's something I don't understand and perhaps never will. What's the appeal of authoritarianism? I'd prefer to have a part in choosing the people who make our laws and control the military.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 4, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Yep, that's something I don't understand and perhaps never will. What's the appeal of authoritarianism? I'd prefer to have a part in choosing the people who make our laws and control the military.


Yes, I favor keeping our democracy.


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## John cycling (Dec 4, 2021)

Pauline1954 said:


> That's harsh, really. Blatant lies. Come on where is your sense of  consideration in a conversation. Not everyone that posts the opposite of your standing are spreading lies. You are so quick to denigrate others which is an unattractive characteristic to have.  Maybe try a little less punishment without proof when responding to others.



Yes, I completely agree with you.
If their words were guns, then everyone else would be dead except them.
It appears to me that the most viscous people are the same ones lacking in patience and logic.
These qualities which they lack are important for making good decisions, and for accepting that others do likewise.


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## Bellbird (Dec 4, 2021)

After reading some of the anti posts, it's very easy to understand how some people get hysterical, most don't know the truth.  And a reference to "Nazi" Internment camps, get real.


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## win231 (Dec 5, 2021)

Shero said:


> Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis announced mandatory Covid-19 vaccination for all Greeks above 60 years of age before a cabinet meeting in Athens on Tuesday, in an effort to tackle the new omicron variation threat ahead of the festive season.
> 
> Those who refuse to get vaccinated will have to pay a monthly fine of 100 euros ($114) for each month they don’t get jabbed, starting on Jan. 16, according to Mitsotakis. The penalty will be imposed by the tax authorities directly to those who haven’t been inoculated and the funds collected will be given to Greek hospitals fighting the pandemic. “It is not a punishment,” Mitsotakis said. “I would say it is a health fee.”
> 
> ...


Damn!  I was just about to move to Greece!


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## chic (Dec 5, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Not necessarily. If authoritarians gain more power, they'll control the media, which means they'll control what defines reality. That's what happened in Nazi Germany. The Nazis controlled all media. A lot of people — probably the vast majority — had no idea what was going on.


That's right. That's why POWs listened to the BBC for war info during their incarceration.


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## chic (Dec 5, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I wouldn't know - I'd have to dig around, but I am curious.
> 
> It's true, you have to dig a little deep to separate fact from fiction and, say, science from assertions. And you can't immediately rely on just one or two sources, you have to look at their associates, affiliates, and sponsors and stuff. But reliable sources _are_ out there, and it's kind of fun when I come across them. It's like scratching off a winning lottery ticket.


It will be hard. The Australian government is one of the hardest when it comes to absolute covid control of its citizens and that includes all media. It could be safe to say they are already a totalitarian regime at this juncture.


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## Shero (Dec 5, 2021)

chic said:


> It will be hard. The Australian government is one of the hardest when it comes to absolute covid control of its citizens and that includes all media. It could be safe to say they are already a totalitarian regime at this juncture.


.
Oh, you so funny Chic. I composed this specially for you !!!


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## Shero (Dec 5, 2021)

Bellbird said:


> After reading some of the anti posts, it's very easy to understand how some people get hysterical, most don't know the truth.  And a reference to "Nazi" Internment camps, get real.


Yes, they are hysterical Bellbird because they know their numbers are dwindling. They know they have a short time span. 
.


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## Shero (Dec 5, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Neither Shero or myself demand that anyone agrees with us.  I said I respected her for standing up for the truth and calling out the dangerous disinformation and conspiracies regarding this deadly worldwide pandemic, and I stand by that statement.
> 
> You have called me a Bot for calling out your nonsense, so you have no room to talk about unattractive characteristics here, do you?  I personally don't demand anyone agree with me, we all are entitled to our opinions and many times I have agreed to disagree with others, no big deal.
> 
> ...


.
Thank you for a post based on integrity SeaBreeze. Much appreciated 
.


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## Sunny (Dec 5, 2021)

It's fascinating, in a horrifying way, to see the way the totalitarians take advantage of naive people who will believe anything. 

OK, Win, let's get the smirky answer. We're waiting...


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## win231 (Dec 5, 2021)

Sunny said:


> It's fascinating, in a horrifying way, to see the way the totalitarians take advantage of naive people who will believe anything.
> 
> OK, Win, let's get the smirky answer. We're waiting...


Patience, my friend.


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## chic (Dec 5, 2021)

When any government forces its citizens without informed consent to be injected with an experimental drug with no product liability that is tyranny. You know this.


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## chic (Dec 5, 2021)

Sunny said:


> It's fascinating, in a horrifying way, to see the way the totalitarians take advantage of naive people who will believe anything.
> 
> OK, Win, let's get the smirky answer. We're waiting...


Well, we've tried to help you Sunny but some people will be beyond help until the 10th or 11th booster shot, I fear.


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## Shero (Dec 5, 2021)

chic said:


> Well, we've tried to help you Sunny but some people will be beyond help until the 10th or 11th booster shot, I fear.
> 
> View attachment 197532View attachment 197533



Oh Sunny, they tried to help you


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## Shero (Dec 5, 2021)




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## palides2021 (Dec 5, 2021)

Shero said:


> .
> Palides, have you heard from your sister?  Has she ever visited Darwin? Has she visited Howard Springs herself?
> .


Sorry, she didn't have much to say. Hasn't visited any of those places. She's from Hobart.


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## Shero (Dec 5, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> Sorry, she didn't have much to say. Hasn't visited any of those places. She's from Hobart.



Thank you Palides.


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## Shero (Dec 6, 2021)

So the food was not gourmet but this intelligent and honest person who was not paid a pittance for a fake video, said this:

“*If I had to do quarantine again, I would be happy to do it here! (@ 20.39 on video)*


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## Warrigal (Dec 6, 2021)

I wouldn't be too impressed with the food either but they must have been getting enough to satisfy hunger. I have found when hike camping that when the food is less plentiful you get hungry enough to eat, and even enjoy, food that you would usually turn your nose up at. Fresh fruit can make up for a lot of things that you prefer not to eat.


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## Shero (Dec 6, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> I wouldn't be too impressed with the food either but they must have been getting enough to satisfy hunger. I have found when hike camping that when the food is less plentiful you get hungry enough to eat, and even enjoy, food that you would usually turn your nose up at. Fresh fruit can make up for a lot of things that you prefer not to eat.



The food is not important here. What is important is this:
Some people just need to get into the act even if the storyline is completely fabricated.


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## DaveA (Dec 6, 2021)

Jules said:


> Howard Springs would be preferable.


Personally i don't really give a s##t about all of this crap, but I must say I'm somewhat disappointed with the original post.  From some posters it doesn't surprise me but from others ??


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## Murrmurr (Dec 6, 2021)

DaveA said:


> Personally i don't really give a s##t about all of this crap, but I must say I'm somewhat disappointed with the original post.  From some posters it doesn't surprise me but from others ??


Whether the girl in the video is exaggerating or not, even if she's lying about some of it, what do you think about a government ordering people be confined to a specific area, with no due process or representation, and no recourse aside from paying a hefty fine, because they had contact with some specific person, or because they lied to a cop?    (lying to a cop doesn't always mean jail time, btw)

Like many sources, this one is politically biased. I wasn't interested in their politics.


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## Warrigal (Dec 6, 2021)

Murrmurr, what distresses me most is the way my country treats refugees who attempt to arrive by sea, seeking asylum. They have been locked up now for many years without any end in sight. This is a very cruel way to treat people who have not committed any crime and who pose little threat to national security.


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## Shero (Dec 7, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> I wouldn't be too impressed with the food either but they must have been getting enough to satisfy hunger. I have found when hike camping that when the food is less plentiful you get hungry enough to eat, and even enjoy, food that you would usually turn your nose up at. Fresh fruit can make up for a lot of things that you prefer not to eat.



Have you see first hand how they are treated?
.


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## Shero (Dec 7, 2021)

DaveA said:


> Personally i don't really give a s##t about all of this crap, but I must say I'm somewhat disappointed with the original post.  From some posters it doesn't surprise me but from others ??


,
Cannot agree with you more. It is well established now in the light of all the proof provided that the OP has a lot of egg on his face, as a result of his made up rubbish, but like a spoiled brat, he has to keep harping on and on even though he has been found out!

Same with all those studies and trials he supposedly ”read” about, and was going to post the results, which he never did, because they were all fabricated. Just a little tune playing in his head! 
.


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## Ruthanne (Dec 7, 2021)

Have you ever heard "let go and let God?"


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## Warrigal (Dec 7, 2021)

Shero said:


> Have you see first hand how they are treated?
> .


No but the quarantine facility is open enough that what goes on in there is not a secret, unlike the off shore detention of asylum seekers where all workers had to sign confidentiality contracts.

The people in quarantine obviously are not gagged or censored in any way.


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## Shero (Dec 7, 2021)

Are you not forgetting an important point?  Those people are not refugees - they are illegal immigrants.


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## Irwin (Dec 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Whether the girl in the video is exaggerating or not, even if she's lying about some of it, what do you think about a government ordering people be confined to a specific area, with no due process or representation, and no recourse aside from paying a hefty fine, because they had contact with some specific person, or because they lied to a cop?    (lying to a cop doesn't always mean jail time, btw)
> 
> Like many sources, this one is politically biased. I wasn't interested in their politics.


What do you suggest as an alternative? The people interned could spread a deadly disease if they're allowed to merge into the general population. Should the government just throw up its hands and say "there's nothing we can do" or should they take some precautions?


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## Warrigal (Dec 7, 2021)

Shero said:


> Are you not forgetting an important point?  Those people are not refugees - they are illegal immigrants.


I disagree.

 According to international law people seeking asylum can enter a country by any means they can. With or without papers. When they arrive, if their claim is invalid, they can be repatriated. 

Just because one person arrives in a jet plane and another arrives on a fishing boat doesn't make one legal and the other illegal.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 7, 2021)

Irwin said:


> What do you suggest as an alternative? The people interned could spread a deadly disease if they're allowed to merge into the general population. Should the government just throw up its hands and say "there's nothing we can do" or should they take some precautions?


Testing is an alternative. If a person tests positive, they stay home until they test negative. Testing should have been the #1 tool from the beginning.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 7, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Murrmurr, what distresses me most is the way my country treats refugees who attempt to arrive by sea, seeking asylum. They have been locked up now for many years without any end in sight. This is a very cruel way to treat people who have not committed any crime and who pose little threat to national security.


Immigration protocol and process is a big fat mess here, too. It's inhumane. We don't even hear excuses anymore. We get the same old catchy phrases and then we're expected to just move on and let "them" handle it.


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## John cycling (Dec 7, 2021)

Irwin said:


> What do you suggest as an alternative? The people interned could spread a deadly disease if they're allowed to merge into the general population. Should the government just throw up its hands and say "there's nothing we can do" or should they take some precautions?



Stop harassing people and allow them to make their own decisions about their personal health.  

You and other people like you are the ones who are spreading a deadly disease, with your words and by injecting foreign substances in your bodies which makes you much more unhealthy and doesn't protect you from anything, plus that you were likely already unhealthy to begin with.  If you're so afraid of being around healthy people then just decide what you're going to do for yourself, and if that hasn't worked for you in the past then start taking responsibility for yourself and stop trying to blame other people who have nothing to do with it.

Honestly, it's the most unhealthy people who are so quick to inject questionable foreign substances in your bodies, and also so quick to try and blame other people - who have nothing to do with it - for your many pains, afflictions and bad choices.  

The government needs to stay out of this, mind their own business, and stop rewarding the problem creators / benefactors.
If you really want to be healthy then ask a healthy person like me, not a broadcaster on the news who knows nothing about health.


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## Irwin (Dec 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Testing is an alternative. If a person tests positive, they stay home until they test negative. Testing should have been the #1 tool from the beginning.


That's a good point. It would be a lot cheaper, too, than putting people up in a hotel. There must be a reason that's not what's happening. Maybe the interned people have tested positive. I don't know. Somebody chime in here if you know the answer or I may be forced to Google it.


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## Warrigal (Dec 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Testing is an alternative. If a person tests positive, they stay home until they test negative. Testing should have been the #1 tool from the beginning.


Testing was been the salvation over here before vaccine was available. It still is.
We also have QR codes to scan with our phones wherever we go and we are notified if we have been in contact with someone who has tested positive. Then we get a test and stay home until we get a negative result. Measures like these require a good deal of civic co-operation but not everyone is willing to co-operate. 

Every positive swab is being sent for genomic testing to determine which variant is present and to trace the source of the infection. This information helps measure the level of risk bubbling away in the community.

So far no-one in my family has developed Covid but both of my children, who work in hospitals, are subjected to swabs every 2 or 3 days, even they are fully vaccinated.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 7, 2021)

Irwin said:


> That's a good point. *It would be a lot cheaper*, too, than putting people up in a hotel. There must be a reason that's not what's happening. Maybe the interned people have tested positive. I don't know. Somebody chime in here if you know the answer or I may be forced to Google it.


Bolded; that's your answer. The CDCs initial tactic was to request mass production of the proper test kits, and they approached Pfizer about it. But - in my opinion - Pfizer saw _*way*_ more profit in tweaking the vaccine they were already working on, and mass producing that instead.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 7, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Testing was been the salvation over here before vaccine was available. It still is.
> We also have QR codes to scan with our phones wherever we go and we are notified if we have been in contact with someone who has tested positive. Then we get a test and stay home until we get a negative result. Measures like these require a good deal of civic co-operation but not everyone is willing to co-operate.
> 
> Every positive swab is being sent for genomic testing to determine which variant is present and to trace the source of the infection. This information helps measure the level of risk bubbling away in the community.
> ...


It makes more sense to insist that infected people stay home so that everyone else can be productive, earn a living, pay their bills, keep the economy going.


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## Warrigal (Dec 7, 2021)

We have home quarantine too but in some households that is not practical. Home isolation is what is required if you are a close contact (until tests come back negative) but if someone is positive for Covid they may not be able to stay in one room away from the rest of the family. For them, hotel quarantine is necessary. Hotel quarantine is mandatory for unco-operative people who refuse to isolate at home.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 7, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> We have home quarantine too but in some households that is not practical. Home isolation is what is required if you are a close contact (until tests come back negative) but if someone is positive for Covid they may not be able to stay in one room away from the rest of the family. For them, hotel quarantine is necessary. Hotel quarantine is mandatory for unco-operative people who refuse to isolate at home.


My DIL had a bad case of covid last year and she lives with my son and 3 of their 6 children. She stayed in their bedroom most of the time. I stopped visiting and they stopped visiting me. No one else got sick. 

While that might not be a typical scenario, I still have a huge problem with too much power and control in government. The danger in that has been proven time and again. Historically, it has led to far more deaths than this pandemic.


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## Warrigal (Dec 7, 2021)

That's the difference between Americans and Australians. 
While we bag our governments most of the time (probably all of the time) we do not fear them.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 7, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> That's the difference between Americans and Australians.
> While we bag our governments most of the time (probably all of the time) we do not fear them.


I'm seeing a growing fear, though, and rightfully so.

Now maybe, in some of my posts, I've been talking from the perspective of my Jewish background, but I really don't think so.


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## Warrigal (Dec 7, 2021)

From your Jewish background that is understandable. 
Australians with indigenous background also have a well founded fear of governments.


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## Irwin (Dec 7, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> That's the difference between Americans and Australians.
> While we bag our governments most of the time (probably all of the time) we do not fear them.


That's because you have a more stable democracy in Australia. Ours is on the brink of collapse.


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## chic (Dec 7, 2021)

Irwin said:


> That's because you have a more stable democracy in Australia. Ours is on the brink of collapse.


We're not on the verge of collapse. Some are fighting for their constitutional rights, civilly or uncivilly, as necessity dictates. Want it to stop fast? Quit fear mongering and end the mandates, especially vaccine mandates and passports. Things would get back to normal pretty quick but we will be forever aware that our government is not always acting in our best interests. The handling of covid has taught us that much.


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## Shero (Dec 7, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> I disagree.
> 
> According to international law people seeking asylum can enter a country by any means they can. With or without papers. When they arrive, if their claim is invalid, they can be repatriated.
> 
> Just because one person arrives in a jet plane and another arrives on a fishing boat doesn't make one legal and the other illegal.


.
I suggest you read the Parliamentary papers on this Warrigal, because you are naive about the intricacies of arriving refugee or asylum seekers whatever name you wish to use.
Those arriving by boat, *destroy* their papers before they arrive, thus causing a headache for your government. So they are put in a camp until their athenticity can be checked.

I am heartbroken that people have to flee from anywhere for their lives, but putting on rose tinted glasses is not going to help the problem. 
I am not going to reply to you again on this matter because then it will become political and a no no  at SF.


.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 7, 2021)

Irwin said:


> That's because you have a more stable democracy in Australia. Ours is on the brink of collapse.


I agree with @chic - our right to due process is still intact.

Although, when the blindfold comes off and justice leans politically, things get messy.


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## Shero (Dec 7, 2021)

Irwin said:


> That's a good point. It would be a lot cheaper, too, than putting people up in a hotel. There must be a reason that's not what's happening. Maybe the interned people have tested positive. I don't know. Somebody chime in here if you know the answer or I may be forced to Google it.


Some were put up in five star hotels, but it was very expensive and the windows as you know in hotels cannot be opened and the occupants complained. They had to remain in their rooms and that is not nice for 2 weeks.

Much better to be in a facility where you can sit on a porch, go for a swim and talk to your neighbours from your porch.
.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 7, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> From your Jewish background that is understandable.
> Australians with indigenous background also have a well founded fear of governments.


Yes, Jews are only one example. Propaganda has always been a diverse and inclusive tool.


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## Shero (Dec 7, 2021)

*Mikael Dolsten, the Jewish Immigrant Leading Pfizer’s Vaccine Charge.*

When Mikael Dolsten, the head scientist at Pfizer, heard the news last week that the COVID-19 vaccine that he has been helping to develop for the better part of a year was over 90% effective, he and his colleagues literally leapt with joy at a corporate office in Connecticut.

“This may turn out to be one of the biggest medical advances of the past 100 years,” Dolsten said by Zoom from his home office last week, the emotion clear in his voice and on his face.

He was pointing to not only the historic need to medically combat a virus that’s again ravaging the world — particularly the United States, which is setting case records by the week — but also the fact that the Pfizer product is part of a groundbreaking new type of vaccines made quickly from synthetic versions of the virus’ genetic material.

But when Dolsten took time to reflect on the development, he also saw it as a proud moment for Jewish immigrants like himself who have contributed to American scientific innovation.

“A lot of the great breakthroughs in America have come from people that immigrated,” he said, pointing out the example of Albert Einstein and others. “There has been a strong Jewish tradition around contributing to humanity and a strong tradition within medicine.”


https://www.weizmann-usa.org/news-m...cine-charge-hopes-the-us-stays-a-melting-pot/
.


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## Shero (Dec 7, 2021)

Tal Zaks is* Moderna’s chief medical officer,* a native Israeli whose career in medicine has been immersed in drug discovery and development.


----------

