# Concealed Gun Carrier Stopped Attack on Others by Man With Infected Hypodermic Needle



## SeaBreeze (Mar 28, 2014)

Attack with dirty hypodermic needle stopped by concealed gun carrier...http://digitaljournal.com/news/crim...an-with-concealed-carry-permit/article/378371


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## SifuPhil (Mar 29, 2014)

Nice one - we need more success stories like this.


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## Justme (Mar 29, 2014)

There are too many times in the US when their crazy gun laws have caused mayhem, thank goodness I live in the UK!


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 29, 2014)

There are a lot of success stories out there SifuPhil, just not many get recognized by the media, so we hear very little of them.  If somebody was about to stab me with an Aids infected needle, or slit my throat with a knife, or rape me in an alley, I would be blessed to have someone with a concealed carry come to my aid.


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## Ina (Mar 29, 2014)

This happened in Houston last week. A woman said she hadn't carried her gun, which she had a permit to carry, in more than three years, when something told her to carry it that night. Later in the evening she came upon a man pointing a gun at a woman he was robbing. She pointed her gun at the robber, and he ran, but the police caught him. Turns out he only had a BB pistol. 
I think we must come up with some think tanks on how to reverse the this mountain of crime before it kills us all.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 29, 2014)

First they need to crack down on the gangs, that would be a start anyway.  Also, I think that tougher punishment for the criminals is a must, right now I think most of them just get a slap on the wrist, and they're out on the streets again doing the very same thing to someone else.


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## Ina (Mar 29, 2014)

When they are sentenced, most get out early, in some situations they get a count of 2 days for 1. They say for good behaviour. Every time the murder of my oldest son come up for parole, I will spent days writing my reasons for wanting him to stay in prison for as long as the his plea deal called for.


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## That Guy (Mar 29, 2014)

I still don't understand the desire to conceal and carry.  If I'm packin' heat I want you to KNOW it and I want it at the ready.


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## Ina (Mar 29, 2014)

TG, guns don't go well with most women's outfits, so they are best carried in the purse. :lofl:


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 29, 2014)

I agree TG, open carry would be the best thing and probably more effective, but it is not permitted in many states, so concealed carry is the next best thing.  I don't carry a gun with me, but I do have one in the home for protection if needed, so far I've never had to use it.


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## That Guy (Mar 29, 2014)

Ina said:


> TG, guns don't go well with most women's outfits . . .


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## That Guy (Mar 29, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I agree TG, open carry would be the best thing and probably more effective, but it is not permitted in many states, so concealed carry is the next best thing.  I don't carry a gun with me, but I do have one in the home for protection if needed, so far I've never had to use it.


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## Warrigal (Mar 30, 2014)

Why weren't the security guards carrying weapons?
Is security now the responsibility of amateur bystanders?


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## rkunsaw (Mar 30, 2014)

Security guards at most businesses don't carry weapons. I'm not sure why but probably a decision made by the business.  That might change if guards keep getting attacked.


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## Warrigal (Mar 30, 2014)

At least they would be trained when and when not to shoot.
At least, I would hope they would be.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 30, 2014)

That Guy said:


> I still don't understand the desire to conceal and carry.  If I'm packin' heat I want you to KNOW it and I want it at the ready.



One problem would be in crowded areas - unless you're trained in weapons-retention techniques it's too easy to be a target for a snatch-and-grab.


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## RCynic (Mar 30, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> ...right now I think most of them just get a slap on the wrist, and they're out on the streets again doing the very same thing to someone else.



Recidivism is a HUGE problem. I cannot even begin to count how many times my wife and I are sitting at breakfast, watching the morning news and we hear of some crime committed by a freed, paroled, pardoned, probated, ...something felon. Our response is always the same. "What on earth is this low life doing walking around among normal people?" It just boggles my mind.


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## Davey Jones (Mar 30, 2014)

RCynic said:


> Recidivism is a HUGE problem. I cannot even begin to count how many times my wife and I are sitting at breakfast, watching the morning news and we hear of some crime committed by a freed, paroled, pardoned, probated, ...something felon. Our response is always the same. "What on earth is this low life doing walking around among normal people?" It just boggles my mind.



 Keep in mind this lowlife is also armed and guaranteed to get the first shot off before you do with your cancelled weapon, all because guns are practically free to ANYONE that wants one.
These lowlifes are walking around simply because prisons are overcrowded,fix that problem first then complain.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 30, 2014)

RCynic said:


> Recidivism is a HUGE problem. I cannot even begin to count how many times my wife and I are sitting at breakfast, watching the morning news and we hear of some crime committed by a freed, paroled, pardoned, probated, ...something felon. Our response is always the same. "What on earth is this low life doing walking around among normal people?" It just boggles my mind.



I agree.  I've even heard of a few cases where they "accidentally" let a prisoner free, because they misread the paperwork.  Now that's a new one!



Davey Jones said:


> Keep in mind this lowlife is also armed and guaranteed to get the first shot off before you do with your cancelled weapon, all because guns are practically free to ANYONE that wants one.
> These lowlifes are walking around simply because prisons are overcrowded,fix that problem first then complain.



Nothing's guaranteed, a person who's trained to use his concealed carry weapon can easily get in the first shot if needed.  Most street-guns have always been almost for free regarding criminals and street gangs, and that will remain the same regardless of whether the law-abiding citizen retains his right to own firearms.

One reason the prisons are overcrowded, is due to this bogus 'war on drugs' that just imprisons an average Joe who wants to use marijuana, etc.  These poor schleps spend more time behind bars than the thieves, rapists and other hardened criminals.  If there's such a war on drugs, then stop them from coming in over the Mexican border first and foremost, don't just slam the cuffs on the American who choose to use them recreationally.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 30, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> These lowlifes are walking around simply because prisons are overcrowded,fix that problem first then complain.



The prisons are overcrowded because they are cash cows for the private companies that run them, and they have enough pull to lobby for laws that encourage incarceration for victimless crimes as well as serious ones. As SeaBreeze mentioned, the "war on drugs" is like Christmas morning for the prison owners.


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## rt3 (Mar 30, 2014)

not a media fan here, but in all fairness, police are not required to collect statistics on the incidents of weapons used in self defense, crime deterrence, or other good uses of weapons.
however the arrests for robbery etc. are. a reporter has no way of compiling meaningful pro-gun thus it is never mentioned in media events. Certain organizations, however, keep very good records, and they find these incidents out, by someone emailing them. Another reason is there is no report-- is to protect the person who has used the weapon legit. They have not committed a crime and therefore no public record can exist without, the reporting entity incurring what may become a defamation charge. 

most criminals are not armed, if you look at the police records of ones that are picked up and police statistics. Ironically it is the anti-gun crowd that would lead you to believe this for the following reasons. Guns are free and easy to get. We need all guns registered because the criminals can buy them anywhere. Registration leads to fewer crimes. 


weapon retention techniques, are cop domain,  few perts would try to wrestle the gun from you, it would risk an accidental misfire, with an unknown outcome. they exist in the same world as martial artists concept of taking a gun away. its possible but unless your willing to die, really bad odds. 

these are the reasons Florida has recently passed legislation allowing a warning shot to be fired, and many other states will follow this model


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## RCynic (Mar 30, 2014)

"Registration leads to fewer crimes"

Really? I've never seen any data, or analysis thereof, that would lead me to conclude that. What is your source for that?


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 30, 2014)

I don't think registration leads to fewer crimes, because the criminals/gangs who get their guns off the streets never register them, and never will regardless of the laws.


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## rt3 (Mar 30, 2014)

I'm not say registration leads to fewer crimes, the anti-gun people use this endlessly, the original source is the Brady bill


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## Davey Jones (Mar 30, 2014)

rt3 said:


> these are the reasons Florida has recently passed legislation allowing a warning shot to be fired, and many other states will follow this model




Really? so where is that warning shot going? Do they aim that warning shot?


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## rt3 (Mar 30, 2014)

the legislation was passed by the antigun group not the progun people (the liked the way it was before) in case you missed that, the same group that passes legislation that allows swat teams to enter without a warrant because they believe the police will do the protecting.

again --- its part of the lies sold by the antigun group that goes with the statistics that laws reduce crime..


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## Davey Jones (Mar 30, 2014)

re:these are the reasons Florida has recently passed legislation allowing a warning shot to be fired, and many other states will follow this model .


If other states are following this legislation then it got to be a good idea.IMO


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## SifuPhil (Mar 30, 2014)

rt3 said:


> ... weapon retention techniques, are cop domain,  few perts would try to wrestle the gun from you, it would risk an accidental misfire, with an unknown outcome. they exist in the same world as martial artists concept of taking a gun away. its possible but unless your willing to die, really bad odds.



If you're on the wrong end of a gun barrel though you're _already_ facing pretty bad odds and are likely to die, so what do you have to lose? _Especially_ if you're trained for it.

Retention techniques, although admittedly the main domain of cops, is also applicable and trained by soldiers, security guards, martial artists and survivalists. If you're going to open-carry the _least_ you should do is to become aware of your environment, who is in it and the exposure of your weapon at every moment.


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## rt3 (Mar 31, 2014)

most robberies end without a shooting, and the antigun crowd uses this as a reason to be passive and give the robber or attacker what they want. this is the basis for their rational--- people really don't need to pack.  
statistics also show that out of the number of handgun shootings there are surprisingly few fatalities.

weapon retention to security personal, is for liability reasons as much as stopping a grab. If the person having the gun even suspects the person on the other end is trained they will not allow the defensive perimeter to be changed. Today with all the movie kaka, martial arts kaka in the media and video games, the entire field has shifted. The only sure way, if you can call it that, is to assume the person across from you is as well trained as you are in giving themselves an advantage using weapons, knowledge etc.  Even with this assumption your chance of winning is only 33% because there are 3 outcomes, win - lose - draw. This is the basic reason why a warning shot is so stupid, I can't even believe it came up. The actual fact of the matter is that most people are such terrible shots with a handgun, it is 90% probability (statistics, taken from Gunsite, ThunderRanch) that the first shoot will be a warning shot, due to the fact they missed. And this includes the police!!!!!!!!!
Is this a good argument as the antigun crowd uses this all the time to support weapon restriction?

what about the little old lady who fired her gun at the intruder in her home, missed but the coward left anyway? she was trying to hit, so the intent was there. if you think Martin was a legal nightmare wait till this stuff starts to come up. most states that allow carry, hold that if you have to fire a warning shot, you were not in danger. 

open carry-- if you open carry in most states that allow it, the police will pick you up for "disturbing the peace"   Utah recently passed a law that specifically blocks the police from using this as a charge, pretty neat, 

more than 95% of all attacks are NOT done in a crowd. this is the basis that got the warning shot thru the process.


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## Davey Jones (Mar 31, 2014)

re:more than 95% of all attacks are NOT done in a crowd.

95% really?where did you get that figure? There seem to be a lot more shooting in crowds in the last couple of yesars


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## SifuPhil (Mar 31, 2014)

There are also a lot more "trashings" going on in malls and storefronts - large groups of "youths" going on a rampage, stealing stuff and knocking things down. Everyone just stands to the side and videos it for YouTube.

I never heard of the 95% figure either - I'd be interested to know its provenance.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 31, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> There are also a lot more "trashings" going on in malls and storefronts - large groups of "youths" going on a rampage, stealing stuff and knocking things down. Everyone just stands to the side and videos it for YouTube.
> 
> I never heard of the 95% figure either - I'd be interested to know its provenance.



I'd think there would be more heros on the streets/malls but maybe that's only in the movies.  I know once in awhile we hear about someone willing to give their life for another, I'm talking civilians.  Lots of heros in our military, fireman, police officers, and also our health-care workers that are in danger every day of different contagions.  I know there are more as well.  But some nut that would rather take a video of someone being beaten, something wrong with that picture for sure


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## rt3 (Mar 31, 2014)

FBI , NRA, Gunsite and ThunderRanch keep running totals. Especially the FBI, they also keep the breakdowns on what weapons are used. this is a very serious contention between anti gun and progun people. According to both federal and state laws, the FBI must destroy the paper work for a firearms backround check within a short time frame. Antigun people want this information retained in a national registry for reference, any one who is interested  under the freedom of information act (including news papers to publish list of who is packin in your neighborhood). can play with it as they wish. Progun people quote this as violations of at least 3 different amendments. 
from the FBI your need for protection will occur within 7 yards or closer,, this is the reported statistic of most attacks, the 7-10 yard barrier is considered the distance a knife attack can be made successfully. 
I guess stevie Nix in Fleetwood Mac had it right in "Heros are hard to find"'

The problem is much deeper in the sense our hero traditions are based in Greek Mythology. Consider all the movies today. Being a Greek hero is a hard act to follow. We need to give credit to people as heros, who give their time to pet shelters, Special Olympics -- they are the real heros.            
no offense, but wild crowds thrashing and trashing doesn't count. same category as DUI, vandalism etc.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 31, 2014)

rt3 said:


> from the FBI your need for protection will occur within 7 yards or closer,, this is the reported statistic of most attacks, the 7-10 yard barrier is considered the distance a knife attack can be made successfully.



I'm still a bit confused on that yardage - 7-10 yards is knife attack distance???



> I guess stevie Nix in Fleetwood Mac had it right in "Heros are hard to find"'
> 
> The problem is much deeper in the sense our hero traditions are based in Greek Mythology. Consider all the movies today. Being a Greek hero is a hard act to follow. We need to give credit to people as heros, who give their time to pet shelters, Special Olympics -- they are the real heros.



I'm not interested in being a hero - in my opinion that's an over-used term these days. I just don't want to see the innocents get slaughtered.



> no offense, but wild crowds thrashing and trashing doesn't count. same category as DUI, vandalism etc.



I would think it would also lead to assault charges when they smash into the bystanders.


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## rt3 (Mar 31, 2014)

the 7-10 yardage rule is a rule of thumb gun fighters use before trigger press on a knife attack. it is the time a big knife can take you out even if you have a gun. beyond that range most gunfight schools recommend only sight picture. 
not suggesting anyone be a hero, that is the point of my post, the term innocent really doesn't mean anything, legally it means people with no liability, it urban slang it simply means no dog in this fight, or wrong place at the wrong time. 

that would be assault and battery.


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## Davey Jones (Mar 31, 2014)

We have "gunfight schools" now?  REALLY????


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## Davey Jones (Mar 31, 2014)

HERE WE GO....Bet the NRA`is really pizz at the Chicao police dept for this one.

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/2...revoked-after-chicago-arrest-william-oconnell


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 31, 2014)

*Another Case Where A Concealed Carry May Have Saved Lives*

The media would have been all over the place screaming about gun violence and gun control if this mentally ill (putting it nicely) person had been able to follow through on his plans for the folks that he herded into a break room.  Fortunately a customer with a concealed carry weapon was able to stop him in his tracks before innocent victims were further harmed or killed...http://hotair.com/archives/2014/03/...-general-meets-concealed-carry-permit-holder/


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## Warrigal (Mar 31, 2014)

The question has to be asked: How did the now dead mentally ill person get hold of a gun in the first place?
Second question, was his gun loaded? The article did not tell us anything about him.


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## Warrigal (Mar 31, 2014)

I just viewed the video.
The second gunman, the "good Samaritan", is within his rights under the law in Alabama but co-incidentally he is awaiting trial for rape of an underage girl.
Hmmn. Too much testosterone?


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 31, 2014)

I don't feel the need to find fault with this man regarding this particular incident.  He stepped in and potentially saved lives, he's a hero in my book.  I just hope if I was being herded into a back room to await my fate, that I'll be lucky enough to have someone come in and save me, I'd be very grateful.


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## Warrigal (Mar 31, 2014)

The video talks about a customer and the cashier.
The Selma-Times Journal talks about a group of people.
Either way I doubt that they were going to be shot. 
More likely just locked in the store room while he made off with the cash.

It would be good to see security video to make sensible judgements about what really happened.
A man is dead. There should be some sort of coronial inquiry.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 31, 2014)

According to this article, they say that the way he was talking to the people in the store, did not indicate that there was any attempt to steal any money.  There doesn't seem to be any further information yet on this case.  But, in my opinion, if you go into a store waving a gun around and threatening people, you can expect to be shot either by the police or someone else with a firearm.  I have no sympathy for the criminal at all, better to see him dead, than give him the chance to kill innocent victims.



> On Friday, District Attorney Michael Jackson said he doesn't expect Marlo Ellis to face any charges in the incident at the Dollar General.
> 
> "In Alabama you have the right to defend yourself or a third party so when the perpetrator went in there with a gun anybody in the store had the right to deadly force and that's what happened so he actually was a Good Samaritan in this situation because other people could have been injured if he hadn't taken action," Jackson told WSFA.
> 
> ...


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## rt3 (Apr 1, 2014)

Davey why would the NRA be upset, or is that a rhetorical statement--- again.


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## Davey Jones (Apr 1, 2014)

rt3 said:


> Davey why would the NRA be upset, or is that a rhetorical statement--- again.




Can we get back to this "gunfight school" that you mentioned, I really want to go there.


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## rt3 (Apr 1, 2014)

There are quite a few schools in the USA that teach crisis control with firearms. Most of the better ones also teach rifle, shotgun classes. Their primary purpose is to teach firearms safety and legal use to people unfamiliar with weapons. Some of them have very advanced training and are used by the major law enforcement agencies. The main difference, however, are they are open to the public in contrast to say the DOE which is closed. some even teach over sea operatives, or contractors which serve as body guards. The instructors are very good and are trained to help people who are mentally challenged  and against the use of deadly force. A special invitation was presented to Peirs Morgan (sp) but everybody knew it was a tongue in cheek. 
Now its your turn Davey, to tell me why the NRA would sanction the above action.


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## rt3 (Apr 1, 2014)

Davey as you are only becoming aware that you are the only one not packing some statistics:
For every round used in a lethal force incident the police have used 10000 rounds in practice
For every round used in practice by the police, 10000 are used by civilians in training, some competitors will use over 100,000 rounds by themselves.
For every round used by professional shooters (competitors) there are 10000 rounds fired by the US public as shooting ranges, trap, skeet, rifle
if you doubt this go to a local sporting goods store and ask for some 22LR, the most basic and common "bullet" made. when the sales people get off the floor after laughing at
you, they may help with an answer.


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## Ina (Apr 1, 2014)

rt3, we hear gun shoots 2 or 3 times a week. Just because we're in the county, and not the city, people think it is OK. :hide:


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## rt3 (Apr 1, 2014)

not sure what ok means, does that mean, normal for that time of year, those people were innocent so didn't affect them, 2or 3 daily would be a lot, its ok for people to shoot at cats in heat
I was in Berkeley Cal. a while back for a couple of days, and heard several per day. the people there said it was normal, I replied--- this is California with some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, how can that be normal?


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## Davey Jones (Apr 1, 2014)

rt3 said:


> Davey why would the NRA be upset, or is that a rhetorical statement--- again.




I said "*BET* the NRA,try to follow along.


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## rt3 (Apr 1, 2014)

I guess you lost the bet, have you signed up for Gunsite yet?


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## Davey Jones (Apr 2, 2014)

You mean the one on Merritt Island where [h=1]Girl, 14, accidentally shot at gun range in Merritt Island[/h][h=2]Girl flown from The Gun Site Range to Holmes Regional Medical Center[/h]



Read more: http://www.wesh.com/news/central-fl...23743258/-/1576vgr/-/index.html#ixzz2xlzLSBw2​

Naw,I rather go to a safer range at Port Malabar rifle and pistol club.


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## rt3 (Apr 4, 2014)

Good for you Davey, as long as they have facilities and instructors and don't shoot yourself, I'm sure it will be informative.

I was going to quote how many people were injured today in home accidents, but then I remembered -- home accidents don't cause home accidents, people cause home accidents, silly me.


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## Davey Jones (Apr 4, 2014)

If you're going to compare  home accident,car crashes to owning a handgun,you're a way off base. Accidents are accidents and if you have an accident with a handgun then you should'nt be allow to own one since it is no one fault but the gun owner.
A lot of respectible gun owner can erupt into an uncontrolable anger at times and their choices,nowadays, of rebuttle is a handgun.

Thats the way it is today and nothing is going to change it no matter how many gun safety classes you attend.


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## rt3 (Apr 4, 2014)

Your are right as usual Davey you can't compare accidents with gun safety,  Ownership of guns is a protected amendment, and I need to give you no excuses. home accidents aren't

AGAIN  your logic is impeccable-  any respectable car driver can have a bit of road rage and run somebody of the road.

please if you do this -- don't contradict yourself  -- you make it so easy


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## Davey Jones (Apr 4, 2014)

Read the papers,it use to be easy to settle road rages by getting out of the car and confront the other driver with your fist.

Nowaday a simple bullet will do the trick and you dont even have to get out of your car,just make sure you roll the window down first.


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## rt3 (Apr 5, 2014)

papers are old school Davey where have you been anyway, I agree with you, we should reinstate Dueling it would solve so many problems. Only problem is the challenged get to choose the weapon and sport, which in your case would be a game of marbles, Oh gee I lost my marbles.


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