# Homeless Pooping In Public A Problem In San Francisco



## WhatInThe (Aug 26, 2015)

This is one of those stories where one has to say 'Are you pooping me?' Public pooping apparently an issue in San Francisco. Graphic photos.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/How-to-solve-San-Francisco-s-homeless-pooping-6465355.php

This is unsettling on several fronts but just the visuals & smell alone are enough for me not to want to tour or patronize a city with this problem.


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

:eeew::tmi:


----------



## Falcon (Aug 26, 2015)

How can people sink so low?  It's here also but I stay way clear of those areas.

Feel sorry for some but not others.


----------



## BobF (Aug 26, 2015)

Back when I was living in the SF bay area we had a big problem with those called hippies and some other strange groups.    They were in SF and across the bridge in places like Sausolito and I think another place was Tiburon.   Just as trashy as those today.   They lived on the streets and used the streets as toilets too.   They would just go anyplace they felt like and take over unoccupied properties.   Those were then trashed and made unusable.   There were some city and state parks they took over and made them unsafe for the tourist or locals to be able to use.   It was often in the newspapers just how crude and inconsiderate they all were.

It seems that California still has not learned now to maintain a safe society for all its people.   I still remember my times in SF area and still have family members living out there.   But at today's housing prices in California, I bought a brand new house in 1960 for about $14,500.   Today that home has been sold for near $400,000.    It is a small trac home built with no insulation.    I don't know where the people are working in California to be able to pay that much for a cheap old 60 year old home.   Similar prices in the LA area too.

Maybe that is why so many folks are living on the streets and using the streets for their toilets too.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 26, 2015)

But for the grace of God go I.

I see so many here in Eureka, women my age, broken.  I would like to know their story, but some either won't share it, or they are no longer mentally capable.  I think about the people they loved, at one time, and those that loved them, maybe still do.  I don't judge any because I don't know the "whys" behind their "life" such as it is now.  It makes me all the more grateful that I still have some morals, and one, remaining marble that I am hoping will eventually, divide and multiply.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 26, 2015)

Love to see that photo up close falcon  DV8, LOL!!


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Ya gotta go....ya gotta go


----------



## applecruncher (Aug 26, 2015)

I think this is sad.

Some places won’t allow people to just come in and use the restroom.  I’m not homeless, I always try to be clean and well-groomed, but I also know emergencies happen.  I got very sick once on the bus, got off and had to run into a store and ask to use the restroom. I was directed to the employee lounge area. Otherwise I would have had an accident.

When working in an office I remember once when a temp at the front desk buzzed and said there was a woman wanting to use the rest room.  Well, several people looked at each other and whispered and finally someone told her to give the woman the key.  _For crying out loud.

_


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

It's rude to have bathroom functions while homeless??


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

Denise, what a heartfelt, beautiful, but sad statement. I applaud your compassion. Under the right circumstances, almost any of us could become homeless.


----------



## applecruncher (Aug 26, 2015)

I think some people should try getting thru the day and pretend they don't have access to a bathroom.  See what happens.  Not a pleasant feeling.  My mother and several relatives lost control of their bowel and urination functions later in life.  It's humiliating and sad.


----------



## WhatInThe (Aug 26, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> I think some people should try getting thru the day and pretend they don't have access to a bathroom.  See what happens.  Not a pleasant feeling.  My mother and several relatives lost control of their bowel and urination functions later in life.  It's humiliating and sad.



I see your point but as someone who frequently worked outside, out of a car/truck, construction sites etc there are several ways to do your business that are free and more discrete for both men and women. Especially for those in question because discretion is apparently not a worry. A cup, bottle, box or bag from a trash can or dumpster can do wonders. 

I'll admit there are places that don't allow the homeless or public to use their restrooms and I see why. I've seen them trash local libraries in more than city. One library had one guy was coming in at least once a week basically for his weekly bathing using all the paper towels and toilet paper after basically splashing their dirty water everywhere. Along with tying it for a half hour or so. Don't have to be rich to be neat or considerate.

There are reasons for sanitary standards this is not just about appearances.


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

Once again compassion appears to take second place to blame.  Part of the side effects of being malnourished are urinary/bowel problems. Perhaps we should focus on the cause rather than denigrate the unfortunate. Speaking as a formerly homeless person, my sojourn on the street did not fill me with Either the capacity to be well groomed in a wet Vancouver winter, or a huge desire to be considerate towards people who happily ignored a hungry, shivering, frightened seventeen year old child  who was not there by choice. You can imagine the offers I received as an incentive to be fed. one person offered me dinner and a bath in exchange for something I will not mention.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 26, 2015)

Thanks Shalimar, I can feel a lot of compassion, but in the same instant, look the other way.  I feel some of the things that happen to us are things to give us more compassion for our fellow man/woman.  I've been homeless, and only recently found a place I could afford on my low-income retirement.  It's changed me for the good I hope, instead of being bitter or angry about it.  I was at first.  I'm sure no Mother Teresa as one gal liked to call me, I still want what I want, when I want it, and that is usually "yesterday"


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 26, 2015)

I hear you AC, that reminds me of how many elderly I see on the streets  One gal was unwilling to try for anything, either that or she had, and somehow blew it.  I know one gal got section 8 housing but allowed a guy, or maybe it was her kids to move in.  So she lost her housing she said.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Once again compassion appears to take second place to blame.  Part of the side effects of being malnourished are urinary/bowel problems. Perhaps we should focus on the cause rather than denigrate the unfortunate. Speaking as a formerly homeless person, my sojourn on the street did not fill me with Either the capacity to be well groomed in a wet Vancouver winter, or a huge desire to be considerate towards people who happily ignored a hungry, shivering, frightened seventeen year old child  who was not there by choice. You can imagine the offers I received as an incentive to be fed. one person offered me dinner and a bath in exchange for something I will not mention.



A fellow traveler, I feel fortunate to have you here Shalimar.  

The big cities are the worst as you know already.  I recently read an article on homeless women in San Francisco.  It was horrible scarey  Some get a monthly SS check and when they get it, low-lifes are waiting for them to take it, rape them, even murder some.  Eureka is a smaller town, and some ritzy areas, but you don't have to drive far to "old-town" near the boardwalk to see so many.

Like someone said, some choose it.  They can't bear to be "caged" in, or under someone's supervision or management.  It's been easy for me to just follow the rules at the 2 missions I stayed at before moving here.  I mean, I kept looking at my alternatives like sleeping under bridges, or anywhere I think I might get a night's sleep in peace.


----------



## BobF (Aug 26, 2015)

One thing that was big in the days I lived in SF area, was drugs.   I suppose that and alcoholism could be part of the problem these days too.   And there are other things that can happen as well that makes it hard to find a job for long periods of time.   It is economics and things governments can do that can be a problem.   Such a long list of ways for the people to get into such problems.

For some of us the drugs and alcohol can be disastrous.

Mind states can be among them.    Where for some, they don't want to be in buildings as they prefer to be outdoors and in freedom they say.   While working in Colorado a met a person like that.   He lived in his small pickup truck.   Summer or winter it did not matter he told me.   He was working two jobs when I met him on my second shift factory job.  He was a army vet and trying to build up enough savings to pay off a ranch in Wyoming where he intended to raise cattle and call that his retirement home.   I hope he managed to do that.   He was not one for mixing with people.   At work he would lunch on his own, away from where the people gathered.   A pretty nice person but really different from most of us.   I was able to talk with him as my daughter had a Studebaker and there was the remains of one on the land he had started to pay for.   It did not work out well but worth a try.   The one on his land was too far destroyed to be any help.   A long drive from mid Colorado to where his land was.   At least it was just a short drive off I-25.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 26, 2015)

BobF said:


> One thing that was big in the days I lived in SF area, was drugs.   I suppose that and alcoholism could be part of the problem these days too.   And there are other things that can happen as well that makes it hard to find a job for long periods of time.   It is economics and things governments can do that can be a problem.   Such a long list of ways for the people to get into such problems.
> 
> For some of us the drugs and alcohol can be disastrous.
> 
> Mind states can be among them.    Where for some, they don't want to be in buildings as they prefer to be outdoors and in freedom they say.   While working in Colorado a met a person like that.   He lived in his small pickup truck.   Summer or winter it did not matter he told me.   He was working two jobs when I met him on my second shift factory job.  He was a army vet and trying to build up enough savings to pay off a ranch in Wyoming where he intended to raise cattle and call that his retirement home.   I hope he managed to do that.   He was not one for mixing with people.   At work he would lunch on his own, away from where the people gathered.   A pretty nice person but really different from most of us.   I was able to talk with him as my daughter had a Studebaker and there was the remains of one on the land he had started to pay for.   It did not work out well but worth a try.   The one on his land was too far destroyed to be any help.   A long drive from mid Colorado to where his land was.   At least it was just a short drive of I-25.



I see the drugs and alcohol being "probably" the biggest reason for street-people/homeless-ness.  But I haven't seen the whole picture.  Lots of our veterans out there for sure  Everyone has a story, sometimes you are fortunate enough to hear one.  I say that because of a book I read called Mercy Beyond Measure.  Can't think of the authors name now but he used to speak a lot around the country, and started Church on the Street in Atlanta (I believe I have the city right).

He was headed for college in Portland Oregon, and became fascinated (or drawn to) with the Burnside district.  I lived near Portland about 20 years and most of our crowd didn't want to go near there.  Skid Row.  Anyway, he became so involved he would stay overnight with the street dwellers, and has spent much of his life helping them.  He came close to being killed by a guy that was off his rocker, and the many stories he tells in the book are worth the read in my opinion.


----------



## ndynt (Aug 26, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Love to see that photo up close falcon  DV8, LOL!!


Was just thinking the same thing about yours, Denise.  So good to see your posting once again.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 26, 2015)

ndynt said:


> Was just thinking the same thing about yours, Denise.  So good to see your posting once again.



Oh, way good to see you too Nona  Your notes have encouraged me a lot, and I am so glad to be back in action on SF, lol


----------



## tnthomas (Aug 26, 2015)

L.A. has a sizable "skid row" near the downtown area; the smell of excrement & urine wafts on the breeze there.     It's my understanding that sometime back in the 80s it was decided that mental health care for the indigent was "too expensive", so they were cast out onto the streets   The reasoning cited was that it was a violation of an individuals rights to be held against ones will in a mental hospital, if they were not a threat to themselves or others.   Of course, not all homeless fit in this category, but I believe that it is the sub-group of homeless that have mental health issues that cause the most feeling of revulsion for society at-large.


----------



## fureverywhere (Aug 26, 2015)

Access to mental health and rehab services, employment services, childcare, safe shelters with graduation to safe public housing. But where does the money come from is the biggest problem. If they could build a model with all of those services in place, they could get a lot of people off the streets. Paying for it I don't know.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 26, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> L.A. has a sizable "skid row" near the downtown area; the smell of excrement & urine wafts on the breeze there.     It's my understanding that sometime back in the 80s it was decided that mental health care for the indigent was "too expensive", so they were cast out onto the streets   The reasoning cited was that it was a violation of an individuals rights to be held against ones will in a mental hospital, if they were not a threat to themselves or others.   Of course, not all homeless fit in this category, but I believe that it is the sub-group of homeless that have mental health issues that cause the most feeling of revulsion for society at-large.



Good point tnt, some have scared the daylights out of me.  I heard about the mental hospitals "back when" that came about.  I didn't pay a lot of attention at the time, but I have met many of those cases, either that or they are good actors.  One guy here in this area talks to himself and laughs, every time I see him he is doing it, and that is pretty often I see him.  He'll sit on the boardwalk and take much of his clothing off and just sit in the Sun, rub his feet and legs like they are hurting him

Another gal I saw around in Coos Bay where no shelter would allow her in for overnight, just appeared so normal, cute little thing although most of her teeth were jagged.  But she would go off for no apparent reason.  I saw her take a fork at dinner when I was at the mission there, and she started yelling and stabbing the table.

The worst I believe I ever ran into in this last year was a gal that believed she was being tormented by demons/satan.  Maybe she was but her solution was bleach  I smelled it strong so I asked her if she'd been cleaning something.  She explained that she washed her hair with it, and her skin.  We found out she was not using water/showers at all.  The final straw was catching her gargling with bleach.  The mission managers really freaked then, and so did I when I saw her doing it.  I have no idea where she went when they kicked her out because she had no intention of stopping.

God only knows where she is now.


----------



## ndynt (Aug 26, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> L.A. has a sizable "skid row" near the downtown area; the smell of excrement & urine wafts on the breeze there.     It's my understanding that sometime back in the 80s it was decided that mental health care for the indigent was "too expensive", so they were cast out onto the streets   The reasoning cited was that it was a violation of an individuals rights to be held against ones will in a mental hospital, if they were not a threat to themselves or others.   Of course, not all homeless fit in this category, but I believe that it is the sub-group of homeless that have mental health issues that cause the most feeling of revulsion for society at-large.


That was after Kennedy was assassinated.  No one would follow up on his plans for community based mental health treatment vs shutting people up in institutions.  Most of the mental hospital were closed or just partially open and all these mentally ill people were cast out on the streets.  For the funding for their care was gone.  I was a case manager at that time and patients were put in jail, for their inappropriate behavior.  When they just needed to be on medication.  It was a horrible revolving door thing.  Put them in a psych ward for 72 hours, long enough to stabilize them.  Then back out on the streets, not keeping follow up appts.  Then back in jail for "pooping in the street"  or other inappropriate behaviors.  Do not know if it has improved/changed any.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 26, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> Access to mental health and rehab services, employment services, childcare, safe shelters with graduation to safe public housing. But where does the money come from is the biggest problem. If they could build a model with all of those services in place, they could get a lot of people off the streets. Paying for it I don't know.



That's the crux of the problem for sure, money.  Just think if everyone chipped in a few bucks, voluntarily I mean.  There are lots of donations, see them all the time, but only from a small part of the population.  Even I could afford something, but I don't give often enough.  It's hard to say we live in a "great" country when there are so many suffering.  Seems like the "haves" and the "have nots".  

But again, there are such wonderful folks out there, truly giving their all to help.  One thing is all the empty buildings/houses and lot after lot of unused RVs in storage.  Those that live close enough to the hills or mountains sometimes just disappear into them to make their way.  I don't know anyone personally that's done that, just heard about them.  Escape from New York comes to mind, old movie, but seems it could be a reality one day.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 26, 2015)

ndynt said:


> That was after Kennedy was assassinated.  No one would follow up on his plans for community based mental health treatment vs shutting people up in institutions.  Most of the mental hospital were closed or just partially open and all these mentally ill people were cast out on the streets.  For the funding for their care was gone.  I was a case manager at that time and patients were put in jail, for their inappropriate behavior.  When they just needed to be on medication.  It was a horrible revolving door thing.  Put them in a psych ward for 72 hours, long enough to stabilize them.  Then back out on the streets, not keeping follow up appts.  Then back in jail for "pooping in the street"  or other inappropriate behaviors.  Do not know if it has improved/changed any.



Geez Nona, that's been longer ago than I thought  I've heard (and seen lots of movies) about the horror of some of those mental institutes.  I would have been all supportive of his plan.  Thanks for telling us about that, and it must have been so hard for you to see it so close up  I know you must have been a wonderful, case manager.  I know how caring you are, Denise


----------



## Debby (Aug 26, 2015)

nwlady said:


> But for the grace of God go I.
> 
> I see so many here in Eureka, women my age, broken.  I would like to know their story, but some either won't share it, or they are no longer mentally capable.  I think about the people they loved, at one time, and those that loved them, maybe still do.  I don't judge any because I don't know the "whys" behind their "life" such as it is now.  It makes me all the more grateful that I still have some morals, and one, remaining marble that I am hoping will eventually, divide and multiply.




Hey Denise!  How are ya!  I noticed you returned to the fold a couple days ago but I've had a bunch of things going on (grandkids over, etc) and I kept forgetting to check in on you.

I once heard that anyone is like, one shower away from being unemployable (lousy interview presentation if you smell funny and look greasy you know ) and I've often thought of that.  So your sentiment is well taken.

Maybe cities need to just accept the fact that there are going to be homeless people and provide some facilities that they can use.  Stores and restaurants don't want them in, office towers would have security show them the door, so where else are they going to go?   I think I once read about these great public toilets in Japan and their like a sort of 'tube' that is timed to be open until someone walks in, the door slid closed for a couple minutes, then it opened and the whole thing automatically flushed (or was automatically 'hosed') and because of that, it discouraged anyone from taking up residence but provided a clean public toilet.  It was pretty neat.


----------



## ndynt (Aug 27, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Geez Nona, that's been longer ago than I thought  I've heard (and seen lots of movies) about the horror of some of those mental institutes.  I would have been all supportive of his plan.  Thanks for telling us about that, and it must have been so hard for you to see it so close up  I know you must have been a wonderful, case manager.  I know how caring you are, Denise


 Sadly, Kennedy's sister Rosemary was born mentally retarded. When in her early twenties her father, without his wife knowing, had a botched frontal lobotomy performed on Rosemary. A prodedure used only for mentally ill patients that were violent. Rosemary then lost any of the skills her mother was able to teach her.  She was then placed in a institution, where she remained all her life.  Thus Kennedy had first hand knowledge of the mental health system and compassion for those institionalized.   When he died Congress cut funding for Kennedy`s long term plans for changes in the Mental Health system.   I was fortunate enough, at that time, to be able to work for a grass-roots program to keep the mentally ill in the least restrictive environment possible.


----------



## Don M. (Aug 27, 2015)

Virtually every major city has its "skid row"...populated by drunks, drug addicts, and the mentally disabled.  The drunks and addicts have chosen to spend every dollar they get on feeding their habits....while the mentally disabled are falling through the cracks in our society...with little or no help for their problems.  

California is probably a magnet for these homeless, as the climate is fairly mild, year round.  In many parts of the country, these people would freeze to death in the Winter.


----------



## WhatInThe (Aug 27, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Once again compassion appears to take second place to blame.  Part of the side effects of being malnourished are urinary/bowel problems. Perhaps we should focus on the cause rather than denigrate the unfortunate. Speaking as a formerly homeless person, my sojourn on the street did not fill me with Either the capacity to be well groomed in a wet Vancouver winter, or a huge desire to be considerate towards people who happily ignored a hungry, shivering, frightened seventeen year old child  who was not there by choice. You can imagine the offers I received as an incentive to be fed. one person offered me dinner and a bath in exchange for something I will not mention.




I get that there are related issues for some of this behavior but after having worked in some of the most poor, rundown, drug infested, dilapidated, abandoned neighborhoods & cities at all times of day for decades only once did I see a homeless person or junky go to the bathroom/urinate in front of others and even that was in an alley with back turned away from public. As ignorant as he was going about 10 ft from where I was working he apologized saying he had to go. That being said I did run across piles of human waste among other things but again that was in an out of the way places. That was  decades ago at this point when there was more of a stigma(justified or not) on being homeless but most also knew that staying out of sight out of mind was the best way to survive and others respected that-you don't bother me and I won't bother or call the police on you. 

I think part of the problem now is that a lot of those nooks, crannies, corners, alleys have been blocked off so many homeless can't find a place to hide or do things more discretely. They're blocked off because the owners probably got tired of cleaning up after them. I've had post offices who had to lock up their PO Box area before dark even though they were supposed to be open until 11:00. When I complained they said it was too much to have to clean up the area every morning which went beyond emptying the trash cans and a quick sweep/mop. There is a lack of public bathrooms and too many business get away with denying use of theirs. Perhaps tax breaks for business who install additional public restrooms or pay for port a potties might help but not solve some of these problems.

Also many places have started using a urine repellent type paint to discourage public urination anyway. The idea was used in Germany who has also had a problem of public urination as well.

http://www.usnews.com/news/us/artic...-francisco-fights-public-urination-with-paint


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 27, 2015)

I think those toilets sound good.  I know that some homeless no longer care about the good things folks "do" provide for them.  In the missions would you believe people gripe about the food, bedding, beds.  I got caught up in it a time or two until I remembered who got me into the mess, myself.  No one did it to me.  I know some have had bad things happen to them that's caused their homeless-ness but playing the "blame" game has never done a thing for me.  I'm no pollyanna, but I do try to remember to make a gratitude list.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 27, 2015)

ndynt said:


> Sadly, Kennedy's sister Rosemary was born mentally retarded. When in her early twenties her father, without his wife knowing, had a botched frontal lobotomy performed on Rosemary. A prodedure used only for mentally ill patients that were violent. Rosemary then lost any of the skills her mother was able to teach her.  She was then placed in a institution, where she remained all her life.  Thus Kennedy had first hand knowledge of the mental health system and compassion for those institionalized.   When he died Congress cut funding for Kennedy`s long term plans for changes in the Mental Health system.   I was fortunate enough, at that time, to be able to work for a grass-roots program to keep the mentally ill in the least restrictive environment possible.



Even today I know some things are happening that are just wrong, even evil/abusive.  I heard from a gal that was on clonazapam, prescribed, but she had run out and it gave her awful, withdrawal symptoms, so bad she ended up in confinement in a hospital.  They would not give her anything she said (I know not to believe all I hear), and she was forced to go through it cold-turkey.

Thank goodness for the good, mental, healthcare there is out there.  Well, I should say I hope it's out there as I don't know, other than a Doctor putting me on some crap a few months ago for my depression.  I couldn't get the script filled in CA and went through "definite" withdrawals, just after about 8 months of the med.  Lexapro if anyone wants to know.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 27, 2015)

Don M. said:


> Virtually every major city has its "skid row"...populated by drunks, drug addicts, and the mentally disabled.  The drunks and addicts have chosen to spend every dollar they get on feeding their habits....while the mentally disabled are falling through the cracks in our society...with little or no help for their problems.
> 
> California is probably a magnet for these homeless, as the climate is fairly mild, year round.  In many parts of the country, these people would freeze to death in the Winter.



I understand the skid-row districts are everywhere, and yes, better weather would attract the homeless.  I can't judge the alcohol/drug users, but it is horrible, and I've seen many working hard to recover.  I see folks gathering butts of cigarettes off the street.  There are plenty of addictions, gambling is another.  I met a gal that had her SS spent the day it came.  She would head for a casino in Coos Bay and blow every dime.

By the way, this woman was lovely, non-drinker, married and wealthy ranch-owner near Eugene OR.  She and her highschool sweetheart raised 2 or 3 children, then since they met, they did bicycle-touring bigtime.  She was riding alone on a bike-lane, went up on the curb she had rode tons of times, and hit one, tiny break in the concrete.  She was paralyzed for 6 months, quad.  Then, 6 years after, she walks with a cane, and is homeless due to the gambling as far as I could tell.  She would take her clothing (she had left) that came from places so expensive, I never even heard of them, trade or sell at a shop in Coos Bay.  That she used for pepsi & cigs.


----------



## WhatInThe (Aug 27, 2015)

nwlady said:


> I think those toilets sound good.  I know that some homeless no longer care about the good things folks "do" provide for them.  In the missions would you believe people gripe about the food, bedding, beds.  I got caught up in it a time or two until I remembered who got me into the mess, myself.  No one did it to me.  I know some have had bad things happen to them that's caused their homeless-ness but playing the "blame" game has never done a thing for me.  I'm no pollyanna, but I do try to remember to make a gratitude list.



That's a problem with society in general. People take things for granted or have better knowledge of what's out there and feel entitled to it. I know people who need or could use assistance and refuse it or don't want to be considered 'needy'. Yet they'll beg family and close friends for substantial loans & favors to hide or impress, not survive.

What's the old saying you can't help those who won't help themselves.

And I will HELP others, I will not provide for, enable or perpetuate their bad or unnecessary choices.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 27, 2015)

Good post, and thank you for it.  I think your solution of the tax-break is very realistic, and a good idea.  The only thing sad to me is that we have to be "bribed" with some form of compensation to help folks.  But again, it is what it is.


----------



## WhatInThe (Aug 27, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Good post, and thank you for it.  I think your solution of the tax-break is very realistic, and a good idea.  The only thing sad to me is that we have to be "bribed" with some form of compensation to help folks.  But again, it is what it is.



I think fining or penalizing the business that won't let the public use their mandatory restrooms would be a start. I've purchased donuts & coffee from a shop a block away from the city hall in good clothes and they said their restrooms were out of order. But a sign saying such was there for months. How is that.


----------



## BobF (Aug 27, 2015)

This thread has reminded me of a way of life that I knew of when a kid at home.   It had to be back in the 1930's.   We would on occasion have a hobo stop around and ask for work.    What my mother would do is ask if he needed some food.   If he said yes she would fix them a plate and they would sit on the back steps and eat it.   When done they would thank her and be on their way.

We could not give them jobs or money as we ourselves were also broke.    So a bit of food and that is the best we could do.

We never heard of all this trashy way of living that we see today.   Maybe it existed in some places but not where we were living.   Many of the unemployed found jobs the government created to keep them busy.   Hoover Dam being one.   Then WWII broke out and lots of jobs were created or they got involved with the military.

Looking back, I think the governments way back then were better.   They paid people to work on good projects and very little to those that just sat on their butts between hand outs.   Little more than an allowance for some food items.


----------



## RadishRose (Aug 27, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> I think fining or penalizing the business that won't let the public use their *mandatory restrooms* would be a start. I've purchased donuts & coffee from a shop a block away from the city hall in good clothes and they said their restrooms were out of order. But a sign saying such was there for months. How is that.



what is a "mandatory restroom" ?


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 27, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> I think fining or penalizing the business that won't let the public use their mandatory restrooms would be a start. I've purchased donuts & coffee from a shop a block away from the city hall in good clothes and they said their restrooms were out of order. But a sign saying such was there for months. How is that.



I'm not sure but I thought it was "law" to provide restrooms.  What about the elderly, or folks with babies.  Seems like it would be to the businesses benefit to provide, and increase their customers.  

People are uncomfortable, even afraid of disease etc.  Education doesn't seem to do the trick either.  If it's my home, I admit someone super dirty might frighten me to allow them to use the can, but public means public can use.  Rubber gloves and bleach to clean, and a gas mask if you're that delicate.


----------



## Denise1952 (Aug 27, 2015)

BobF said:


> This thread has reminded me of a way of life that I knew of when a kid at home.   It had to be back in the 1930's.   We would on occasion have a hobo stop around and ask for work.    What my mother would do is ask if he needed some food.   If he said yes she would fix them a plate and they would sit on the back steps and eat it.   When done they would thank her and be on their way.
> 
> We could not give them jobs or money as we ourselves were also broke.    So a bit of food and that is the best we could do.
> 
> ...



Yes, exactly, progress, but not in some areas for sure


----------



## applecruncher (Aug 27, 2015)

Some businesses have had problems with people using the restrooms for long periods of time to bathe and sleep.


----------



## WhatInThe (Aug 27, 2015)

RadishRose said:


> what is a "mandatory restroom" ?



 Local ordinances vary but the most common if the establishment serves food they must have a restroom. So if in a building and you are selling something as simple as hot hotdogs and fountain sodas theoretically you are supposed to have a restroom. Then you get into things  occupancy, visitors, number of employees etc along with type of building/business. I've lived in tourist areas where if the business has a restroom they cannot deny use to the public.


----------



## RadishRose (Aug 27, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Local ordinances vary but the most common if the establishment serves food they must have a restroom. So if in a building and you are selling something as simple as hot hotdogs and fountain sodas theoretically you are supposed to have a restroom. Then you get into things  occupancy, visitors, number of employees etc along with type of building/business. I've lived in tourist areas where if the business has a restroom they cannot deny use to the public.




oh, ok thanks


----------



## WhatInThe (Aug 27, 2015)

BobF said:


> This thread has reminded me of a way of life that I knew of when a kid at home.   It had to be back in the 1930's.   We would on occasion have a hobo stop around and ask for work.    What my mother would do is ask if he needed some food.   If he said yes she would fix them a plate and they would sit on the back steps and eat it.   When done they would thank her and be on their way.
> 
> We could not give them jobs or money as we ourselves were also broke.    So a bit of food and that is the best we could do.
> 
> ...



I think what you see now aren't the unemployed and homeless past who would be much more grateful. I think the drug culture has totally changed homelessness.  For me what I saw during the first wave of crack in the inner cities in 1980s killed my generosity. One week I gave out almost 15$ in loose change alone on the same corner from people asking 'do you have any spare change'. One individual got all indignant when I gave him over a dollar in change that was in my pocket. He screamed "QUARTERs???" amongst all the other pennies, nickels and dimes that were in the pile. Then you watch the beggars go into the local mom & pop shop but not come out with anything so it's probably drugs or cigarettes. It got to the point when people asked for money for something to eat I offered to buy food for them and got immediate NOs.


----------



## WhatInThe (Aug 29, 2015)

*urine & utility poles*

There are a 'number' of problems here. Urine on utility poles is causing corrosion and collapse. Then accidents.

http://www.latimes.com/local/abcarian/la-me-0828-abcarian-sf-urine-20150828-column.html


----------



## Susie (Aug 29, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> Access to mental health and rehab services, employment services, childcare, safe shelters with graduation to safe public housing. But where does the money come from is the biggest problem. If they could build a model with all of those services in place, they could get a lot of people off the streets. Paying for it I don't know.


Some very unhappy, negative solutions to a growing problem!
Let's hope and pray it does not eventually lead to "Hitler's Final Solution"!!!


----------

