# Things are Getting a Little Dark



## Medusa (Jan 11, 2022)

I had to go for labs this morning at 7 a.m. While I was waiting for my number to be called, I heard a man start shouting near the reception area. "This is why no one fcking gets any fcking help. Fck you! A-holes, fcking f*ck."

I am paraphrasing, but I'm pretty sure I've got it close. My first thought was that the lack of a cogent argument indicates sheer frustration and no real point to be made.

But it occurs to me now that it might also be a sign of the times. An indicator of the general fear and frustration we are all beginning to feel with the Covid situation, from the disease itself to the way it's being addressed and presented.

Or it could have been one man just freaking losing it.

But honestly, there does seem to be an encroaching, prevailing sense of unease around this issue rising to the top of our collective consciousness.


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## win231 (Jan 11, 2022)

Since the beginning of Covid, people have been losing it.  I noticed the rude, aggressive driving immediately.  And after 53 years of a perfect driving record, I've had two accidents - both caused by other idiots.


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## chic (Jan 11, 2022)

Medusa said:


> I had to go for labs this morning at 7 a.m. While I was waiting for my number to be called, I heard a man start shouting near the reception area. "This is why no one fcking gets any fcking help. Fck you! A-holes, fcking f*ck."
> 
> I am paraphrasing, but I'm pretty sure I've got it close. My first thought was that the lack of a cogent argument indicates sheer frustration and no real point to be made.
> 
> ...


I so agree. I experience people losing it everyday, almost. It's really sad.


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## Jeni (Jan 11, 2022)

I would agree there is a storm a brewing ...
For some the frustration is getting to them ... people are often with a shorter fuse these days in my observations.

do not cough in public someone could lose their mind..... breathed in really cold air cleared throat and was almost attacked by KNOW IT ALLS 

watch for and avoid the SELF appointed mask police....... seen loud fights even fists thrown over one CUSTOMER correcting another the business not even involved.....
People losing their minds with unmasked OUTSIDE.   

Businesses fighting to stay alive.........many trying to walk a thin line between their customers that are petrified .........and those who are just not living in fear.  That is not working either as one side or another does not think they are doing enough or are asking too much. 

This 2 YEARS to flatten the curve .... as we were told we were doing......... not stay at home til this is all gone .. 
is getting to many many people and frankly i am surprised we have not had more hostility issues.


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## chic (Jan 11, 2022)

win231 said:


> Since the beginning of Covid, people have been losing it.  I noticed the rude, aggressive driving immediately.  And after 53 years of a perfect driving record, I've had two accidents - both caused by other idiots.


I've had an one accident. Someone HIT MY CAR, and 2 acts of vandalism. People are cracking up here. You're not alone.


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## Remy (Jan 11, 2022)

Wow. Yes, people will freak out for all kinds of reasons. One thought, this individual knows he has someone he can basically get by with it in front of him. You have to wonder if he has or feels power over someone in the household. In my line of work, I have experienced people acting like this because they can. And they know it. Not to mention my own mother's behavior.


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## Knight (Jan 11, 2022)

Could it be he didn't get help because he has a limited vocabulary


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## JustinCase (Jan 11, 2022)

I agree with all the postings, I was noticing even shopping at Wal-Mart which is an experience whenever, more aggression & anger.  Driving has always been a defensive activity, but seems to be more speed & tail-gating.


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## Chet (Jan 11, 2022)

If you watch the news, the covid situation is drilled into your head over and over, night after night by announcers with their _hair on fire _delivery. For once I would like to hear the percentage of the population who are getting covid, if the case is severe or mild, if they were vaccinated or not, and the condition of their health before getting it. The football stadiums are packed with healthy fans but the focus is just on the few who are sick.


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## Lewkat (Jan 11, 2022)

I am so sick and tired of hearing about COVID.  It is what it is, folks.  Do your thing.


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## Irwin (Jan 11, 2022)

Medusa said:


> I had to go for labs this morning at 7 a.m. While I was waiting for my number to be called, I heard a man start shouting near the reception area. "This is why no one fcking gets any fcking help. Fck you! A-holes, fcking f*ck."
> 
> I am paraphrasing, but I'm pretty sure I've got it close. My first thought was that the lack of a cogent argument indicates sheer frustration and no real point to be made.
> 
> ...


Sometimes life just gets to you. I had really severe constipation about ten years ago (contact me if you'd like more info). It was so bad that I went to Kaiser, seeking relief. They told me that they were not an emergency room and that I should purchase an enema and treat myself. That was all it took to set me off. I have to admit that I made a bit of a scene, but I couldn't poop and I was in a lot of pain! They just looked at me like I was nuts.


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## Pepper (Jan 11, 2022)

win231 said:


> I've had two accidents - both caused by *other* idiots.


Other.  Does that mean............?  Ok, down boy, just kidding, couldn't resist.


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## Medusa (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Sometimes life just gets to you. I had really severe constipation about ten years ago (contact me if you'd like more info). It was so bad that I went to Kaiser, seeking relief. They told me that they were not an emergency room and that I should purchase an enema and treat myself. That was all it took to set me off. I have to admit that I made a bit of a scene, but I couldn't poop and I was in a lot of pain! They just looked at me like I was nuts.


Geeze, great medical care there, Kaiser.


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## Jeni (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Sometimes life just gets to you. I had really severe constipation about ten years ago (contact me if you'd like more info). It was so bad that I went to Kaiser, seeking relief. They told me that they were not an emergency room and that I should purchase an enema and treat myself. That was all it took to set me off. I have to admit that I made a bit of a scene, but I couldn't poop and I was in a lot of pain! They just looked at me like I was nuts.


sometimes ... in the face of utter stupidity or  complete incompetence ......i too have cause a scene .... 
it is amazing they did not think you most likely tried all you could at home before seeking help.   

i think of it as a pressure relief valve on a hot water heater.... sometimes i go off a tiny bit to prevent a huge explosion


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## Alligatorob (Jan 11, 2022)

To be honest I have not seen anything like this.  Maybe y'all in or near bigger cities are more impacted.


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## Remy (Jan 11, 2022)

JustinCase said:


> I agree with all the postings, I was noticing even shopping at Wal-Mart which is an experience whenever, more aggression & anger.  Driving has always been a defensive activity, but seems to be more speed & tail-gating.


Drivers are terrible and yes tail gating. I'm only ticked off at Walmart because the self check out isn't taking cash. I know some people don't like it because jobs diminished, but I have to admit I really like it.


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## Remy (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Sometimes life just gets to you. I had really severe constipation about ten years ago (contact me if you'd like more info). It was so bad that I went to Kaiser, seeking relief. They told me that they were not an emergency room and that I should purchase an enema and treat myself. That was all it took to set me off. I have to admit that I made a bit of a scene, but I couldn't poop and I was in a lot of pain! They just looked at me like I was nuts.


What jerks! This is no minor matter. People can get constipated sure but it can also lead to life threatening complications. You were not treated right!!! This is medical professionalism???


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## DaveA (Jan 11, 2022)

I agree "rob" and have had the same experience . Live on the outskirts of  a city of 90-100,000.  Not much has changed including the driving. Not much better or worse than before COVID.

Just wonder if some folks keep tabs on smallpox, scarlet fever, polio, ect..  Ills of the past that after enough experimenting have seemed to disappeared or lessened greatly.  

Wonder if politics had stayed out of it, we would have been much further along the road to a possible cure of our present "plague".  And don't kid yourself. Follow posters political viewpoint and their stand on "vax/anti vax".  9 times out of 10, they will follow each other hand in hand.  Don't listen to any medical advice - -your rep, senator, party leader is the "go to" guy or gal.

No wonder there seems to be no solution to today's severe health problem that in years past, would have been eventually solved without the "aid" of politicians.


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## Medusa (Jan 11, 2022)

chic said:


> I so agree. I experience people losing it everyday, almost. It's really sad.


It is, and a little disconcerting.  Unless it's always been this way and I'm simply hyper-aware of it right now.


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## Jeni (Jan 11, 2022)

Medusa said:


> It is, and a little disconcerting.  Unless it's always been this way and I'm simply hyper-aware of it right now.


it is the toll of uncertainty and ever changing items..... like many things some people only see it when it hits home while some of us see the writing on the wall in advance


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## Remy (Jan 11, 2022)

@DaveA "Wonder if politics had stayed out of it..." I think you are on to something here. Things are so partisan. Perhaps they have been in the past also but this seems to be a new level of it.


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## Medusa (Jan 11, 2022)

Lewkat said:


> I am so sick and tired of hearing about COVID.  It is what it is, folks.  Do your thing.


I think that's what we're all _trying _to do, our thing; get on with our lives as best we can whilst moving around the continual imposing and lifting of restrictions. They are happening; there's no sense in pretending like they're not. 

I don't blame you; I'm sick and tired of Covid too; yet here it still is.


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## Medusa (Jan 11, 2022)

Chet said:


> If you watch the news, the covid situation is drilled into your head over and over, night after night by announcers with their _hair on fire _delivery. For once I would like to hear the percentage of the population who are getting covid, if the case is severe or mild, if they were vaccinated or not, and the condition of their health before getting it. The football stadiums are packed with healthy fans but the focus is just on the few who are sick.


Freaking Blue Heavens, _so would I_!  I was just saying that exact same thing to my BF this afternoon.  I'd also like to see the numbers for the seasonal flu this year as compared to Covid.


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

Medusa said:


> I had to go for labs this morning at 7 a.m. While I was waiting for my number to be called, I heard a man start shouting near the reception area. "This is why no one fcking gets any fcking help. Fck you! A-holes, fcking f*ck."
> 
> I am paraphrasing, but I'm pretty sure I've got it close. My first thought was that the lack of a cogent argument indicates sheer frustration and no real point to be made.
> 
> ...


You mean f&*king losing it, don't you ?


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## debodun (Jan 11, 2022)

In the process of closing on the sale of my house, it necessitated my contacting various utilities and sevice companies. No matter who or when I called, I got some agent that seemed totally spaced out, inattentive and incompetent.


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Sometimes life just gets to you. I had really severe constipation about ten years ago (contact me if you'd like more info). It was so bad that I went to Kaiser, seeking relief. They told me that they were not an emergency room and that I should purchase an enema and treat myself. That was all it took to set me off. I have to admit that I made a bit of a scene, but I couldn't poop and I was in a lot of pain! They just looked at me like I was nuts.


I feel for ya Irwin.  There have been isolated times that this has happened to me.  I have to be very careful as you can imagine.  Sometimes you can do all the right things and still can get no relief.  My grandmother took Swiss Kriss, the loose herbs, all her life and lived to be 89 and a mind clear as a bell.  I take Japanese Knotweed which helps.  Sometimes we just need to stand up for ourselves.  I support your outburst 100%!


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## Lewkat (Jan 11, 2022)

Medusa said:


> I think that's what we're all _trying _to do, our thing; get on with our lives as best we can whilst moving around the continual imposing and lifting of restrictions. They are happening; there's no sense in pretending like they're not.
> 
> I don't blame you; I'm sick and tired of Covid too; yet here it still is.


And, it isn't going anywhere soon, so blathering about it constantly doesn't change matters at all.


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## Irwin (Jan 11, 2022)

DaveA said:


> I agree "rob" and have had the same experience . Live on the outskirts of  a city of 90-100,000.  Not much has changed including the driving. Not much better or worse than before COVID.
> 
> Just wonder if some folks keep tabs on smallpox, scarlet fever, polio, ect..  Ills of the past that after enough experimenting have seemed to disappeared or lessened greatly.
> 
> ...


Politicians on one side of the aisle benefit by maintaining the pandemic. They claim that the other side is just trying to control you with their lockdowns, restrictions, and vaccine mandates. They claim that the other side is trying to reinforce their power and silence critics. They claim the other side is lying to you about the severity of the virus. They claim that you need to vote for them or you will be enslaved by the other side, who will take away all your freedoms. Of course, they are all vaccinated and boosted, but they want you to resist doing so. They want you to be afraid — very afraid, just like you should be afraid of people with dark skin or who don't have the same religious beliefs as you. And only they can protect you.


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## Alligatorob (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Politicians on one side of the aisle benefit by maintaining the pandemic


Really unfortunate politics has taken such a big role in this.  It has taken much of the rationality out of the process.  

I don't know why Republicans, Democrats, conservatives or liberals should have such different views.  This is just a matter of public health and safety.  All of these same folks would agree that we need a safe drinking water supply, don't know why this should be different.  I can see policy differences, but not on this scale.


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## Medusa (Jan 11, 2022)

Lewkat said:


> And, it isn't going anywhere soon, so blathering about it constantly doesn't change matters at all.


The point in discussion (in this case) is not to change matters but simply to _discuss _them. Many people find comfort in talking with each other about mutual troubles. That's why support groups are so ubiquitous; mutual comfort in dialogue and exchange. It's what people do when troubled, worried or in pain; they talk.

My question for you is this: Why do you not simply ignore the conversation if you don't want to hear about or participate in it?  It's easy enough to do.  

There are many things I don't care to hear about or discuss... so I don't.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 11, 2022)

Jeni said:


> This 2 YEARS to flatten the curve .... as we were told we were doing......... not stay at home til this is all gone ..
> is getting to many many people and frankly i am surprised we have not had more hostility issues.


Because it's obvious the tactics aren't working. Jobs lost, businesses closed after people invested their money, sweat, and tears, families and relationships stressed or torn apart, education at a standstill, the nation split, people living in isolation and loved ones dying in isolation...and *it* is still here. I'm also surprised there hasn't been even more hostility than we've seen so far.


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## Irwin (Jan 11, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Because it's obvious the tactics aren't working. Jobs lost, businesses closed after people invested their money, sweat, and tears, families and relationships stressed or torn apart, education at a standstill, the nation split, people living in isolation and loved ones dying in isolation...and *it* is still here. I'm also surprised there hasn't been even more hostility than we've seen so far.


So what do you suggest — that they do nothing? Just allow everyone to go about their business as if there was nothing wrong? A hell of a lot more people would get sick and die, and many more businesses would fail.

There would be a lot less suffering if everyone would get vaccinated. I like what Macron said about the unvaccinated:

"The unvaccinated, I really want to piss them off. And so, we're going to continue doing so, until the end. That's the strategy," Macron told Le Parisien newspaper in an interview published late on Tuesday.​​France last year put in place a health pass that prevents people without a PCR test or proof of vaccination to enter restaurants, cafes and other venues. The government wants to turn it into a vaccine passport that means only the vaccinated can have a health pass.​​"I won't send (the unvaccinated) to prison, I won't vaccinate by force. So we need to tell them, from Jan. 15, you won't be able to go to the restaurant anymore, you won't be able to down one, won't be able to have a coffee, go to the theatre, the cinema..."​https://www.reuters.com/markets/rat...-19-curbs-ahead-wednesday-meeting-2022-01-04/​


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## win231 (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> So what do you suggest — that they do nothing? Just allow everyone to go about their business as if there was nothing wrong? A hell of a lot more people would get sick and die, and many more businesses would fail.
> 
> There would be a lot less suffering if everyone would get vaccinated. I like what Macron said about the unvaccinated:
> 
> "The unvaccinated, I really want to piss them off. And so, we're going to continue doing so, until the end. That's the strategy," Macron told Le Parisien newspaper in an interview published late on Tuesday.​​France last year put in place a health pass that prevents people without a PCR test or proof of vaccination to enter restaurants, cafes and other venues. The government wants to turn it into a vaccine passport that means only the vaccinated can have a health pass.​​"I won't send (the unvaccinated) to prison, I won't vaccinate by force. So we need to tell them, from Jan. 15, you won't be able to go to the restaurant anymore, you won't be able to down one, won't be able to have a coffee, go to the theatre, the cinema..."​


You are desperate to find a simple solution to a complicated problem.
Much like those who tell overweight people, "Just eat less."
Macron is the ultimate moron.


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## Shero (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> So what do you suggest — that they do nothing? Just allow everyone to go about their business as if there was nothing wrong? A hell of a lot more people would get sick and die, and many more businesses would fail.
> 
> There would be a lot less suffering if everyone would get vaccinated. I like what Macron said about the unvaccinated:
> 
> "The unvaccinated, I really want to piss them off. And so, we're going to continue doing so, until the end. That's the strategy," Macron told Le Parisien newspaper in an interview published late on Tuesday.​​France last year put in place a health pass that prevents people without a PCR test or proof of vaccination to enter restaurants, cafes and other venues. The government wants to turn it into a vaccine passport that means only the vaccinated can have a health pass.​​"I won't send (the unvaccinated) to prison, I won't vaccinate by force. So we need to tell them, from Jan. 15, you won't be able to go to the restaurant anymore, you won't be able to down one, won't be able to have a coffee, go to the theatre, the cinema..."​https://www.reuters.com/markets/rat...-19-curbs-ahead-wednesday-meeting-2022-01-04/​


Well said Irwin.
Macron is a a man of action. A hero! A French hero!


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## Murrmurr (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> So what do you suggest — that they do nothing?


It would have been great if everyone, especially the world's governmets, had just listened to actual scientists and actual researchers, and actual doctors working on the actual front lines. And it would have been super great if governments had chosen or created *one* organization to gather and compile real-time covid data and share it with the world. And I would sure have appreciated unbiased, facts-only news reporting.


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## win231 (Jan 11, 2022)

Shero said:


> Well said Irwin.
> Macron is a a man of action. A hero! A French hero!


Yes, anyone who's French is your hero.


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## Irwin (Jan 11, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> It would have been great if everyone, especially the world's governmets, had just listened to actual scientists and actual researchers, and actual doctors working on the actual front lines. And it would have been super great if governments had chosen or created *one* organization to gather and compile real-time covid data and share it with the world. And I would sure have appreciated unbiased, facts-only news reporting.


That's not an answer. There are plenty of unbiased sources of information. What do you suggest should be done differently to manage the pandemic?

Personally, I don't know. But I do know that all the disinformation coming out of Fox News and other propaganda outlets is making things worse.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> That's not an answer. There are plenty of unbiased sources of information. What do you suggest should be done differently to manage the pandemic?


It was an answer. And it's still my answer; to manage the pandemic everyone should have listened to actual scientists and researchers, and actual doctors working on the actual front lines. 

And, obviously, their findings (rather than politics) should have dictated medical (not social) policies and practices.


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## Shero (Jan 11, 2022)

I guess Murmur has never heard  of WHO (World Health Organisation) and the body of scientists working worldwide to gather and share information- nor-  has he heard of the various organisations linked to the WHO who provide a wealth of data and relevant information.

Maybe Murmur should read up on these things.
.


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## chic (Jan 11, 2022)

win231 said:


> You are desperate to find a simple solution to a complicated problem.
> Much like those who tell overweight people, "Just eat less."
> Macron is the ultimate moron.


They're all pushing the same dialogue of making the purebloods miserable. It's disgusting. And it just makes people get angrier which helps nothing.


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## Irwin (Jan 11, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> It was an answer. And it's still my answer; to manage the pandemic everyone should have listened to actual scientists and researchers, and actual doctors working on the actual front lines.
> 
> And, obviously, their findings (rather than politics) should have dictated medical (not social) policies and practices.


Well, you can't force people to be rational or to believe in science, and we can't seem to stop all the disinformation coming from certain politicians and propaganda outlets. It's Constitutionally protected free speech, I guess.

The government is limited in what it can do to fight the pandemic. They can try to convince people to get vaccinated and wear facemasks. I guess there could be some positive reinforcement for getting vaccinated, like perhaps tax cuts or something. And there could be negative reinforcements for refusing to help out, such as prohibiting the unvaccinated from attending sporting events or restaurants such as what Macron is doing.


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## win231 (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Well, you can't force people to be rational or to believe in science, and we can't seem to stop all the disinformation coming from certain politicians and propaganda outlets. It's Constitutionally protected free speech, I guess.
> 
> The government is limited in what it can do to fight the pandemic. They can try to convince people to get vaccinated and wear facemasks. I guess there could be some positive reinforcement for getting vaccinated, like perhaps tax cuts or something. And there could be negative reinforcements for refusing to help out, such as prohibiting the unvaccinated from attending sporting events or restaurants such as what Macron is doing.


Yeah, but whatcha gonna do about people like me, who don't attend sporting events, don't need to go to restaurants or bars?


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## Irwin (Jan 11, 2022)

Shero said:


> I guess Murmur has never heard  of WHO (World Health Organisation) and the body of scientists working worldwide to gather and share information- nor-  has he heard of the various organisations linked to the WHO who provide a wealth of data and relevant information.
> 
> Maybe Murmur should read up on these things.
> .


There is also Johns Hopkins University, which was one of the first go-to sites for reliable information.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/


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## Irwin (Jan 11, 2022)

DaveA said:


> I agree "rob" and have had the same experience . Live on the outskirts of  a city of 90-100,000.  Not much has changed including the driving. Not much better or worse than before COVID.
> 
> Just wonder if some folks keep tabs on smallpox, scarlet fever, polio, ect..  Ills of the past that after enough experimenting have seemed to disappeared or lessened greatly.
> 
> ...


Everything is political these days... even a pandemic. One side believes in science while the other side's loyalties are first and foremost to their political party. It's pathetic.


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## Irwin (Jan 11, 2022)

win231 said:


> Yeah, but whatcha gonna do about people like me, who don't attend sporting events, don't need to go to restaurants or bars?


Nada. You're not a problem if you don't go out in public.


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## dseag2 (Jan 11, 2022)

Medusa said:


> The point in discussion (in this case) is not to change matters but simply to _discuss _them. Many people find comfort in talking with each other about mutual troubles. That's why support groups are so ubiquitous; mutual comfort in dialogue and exchange. It's what people do when troubled, worried or in pain; they talk.
> 
> My question for you is this: Why do you not simply ignore the conversation if you don't want to hear about or participate in it?  It's easy enough to do.
> 
> There are many things I don't care to hear about or discuss... so I don't.


Reading through the thread, Lewkat's comment followed one about the news, so that would infer that she was commenting on that topic, not what is discussed in these threads.  I am also sick of hearing about Covid on THE NEWS.  I don't think ignoring conversations in SF will change that in any way.


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## win231 (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Nada. You're not a problem if you don't go out in public.


I do go shopping.  Just wear a mask indoors only because it's required.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 11, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> To be honest I have not seen anything like this.  Maybe y'all in or near bigger cities are more impacted.


Same here, haven't seen anything like that personally, just on the news like the covidiots who freak out on planes or in stores because they are afraid to put on a mask.  In general, folks here have been very kind, united and accepting of the inconveniences related to the pandemic.


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## dseag2 (Jan 11, 2022)

Not sure what prompted this, but I was at the gym some time ago and there was a guy cursing to himself as he walked by.  Last week he was cursing and hitting the locker with his fist.  He's not big, so I don't think it is due to steroids.  Never sure what someone is going through.  I just left the locker room quickly.


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## Shero (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> There is also Johns Hopkins University, which was one of the first go-to sites for reliable information.
> https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/


Yes, absolutely!


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## Irwin (Jan 11, 2022)

win231 said:


> I do go shopping.  Just wear a mask indoors only because it's required.


By not being vaccinated, you're 17 times more likely to get seriously ill if you catch covid-19 and 20 times more likely to die from it. You're basically playing Russian Roulette every time you go out in public. Why would you do such a thing when you don't have to? Just curious.


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## win231 (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> By not being vaccinated, you're 17 times more likely to get seriously ill if you catch covid-19 and 20 times more likely to die from it. You're basically playing Russian Roulette every time you go out in public. Why would you do such a thing when you don't have to? Just curious.


^^^^ You may recall I said "Programming works....for some."   "LOL - _17 times more likely to get seriously ill, 20 times more likely to die from it."_
Where did those magic figures come from?  The same place that magic 6-foot Covid distance came from?
More than 99% of people who do get Covid recover.
I've been out & about for over 2 years - long before masks and vaccines.  
Everyone in my family has been vaccinated, except me.  They've ALL gotten sick.  _I haven't._
I have several friends who were forced to get vaccinated or lose their jobs.  They ALL got Covid & some were very sick.  _Who's playing "Russian Roulette?"_
I have my reasons for not getting vaccinated.  None of them have anything to do with being "Antivaxx."
_So far, the only people I know who are getting sick are vaccinated._

I posted previously about a good friend who died recently - 64 years old.  His doctor recommended a flu shot due to his "Preexisting Condition." He went downhill soon after his shot due to breathing problems - first hospitalized, then a convalescent center, then he died.  His doctor then said, _"NO Covid shot for you."_  He also admitted the flu shot was a bad idea for him.  Needless to say, his wife (77) refused her doctor's advice to get both a flu shot and Covid shots.

As I said, programming works.  For some.  You've been programmed to believe the vaccine protects - despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 12, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Well, you can't force people to be rational or to believe in science, and we can't seem to stop all the disinformation coming from certain politicians and propaganda outlets. It's Constitutionally protected free speech, I guess.
> 
> *The government is limited in what it can do to fight the pandemic. *They can try to convince people to get vaccinated and wear facemasks. I guess there could be some positive reinforcement for getting vaccinated, like perhaps tax cuts or something. And there could be negative reinforcements for refusing to help out, such as prohibiting the unvaccinated from attending sporting events or restaurants such as what Macron is doing.


Unfortunately, the gov't forgot all about those limits in 2019.

No one needed to be forced to be rational. All anyone needed to do was follow their doctor's instructions and advice. And, as always (and in every other situation, global ones included), doctors are advised through such entities as the AMA, CDC, FDA, WHO, NHI, etc., various esteemed medical journals, and knowledge shared with each other.


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## Lewkat (Jan 12, 2022)

Medusa said:


> The point in discussion (in this case) is not to change matters but simply to _discuss _them. Many people find comfort in talking with each other about mutual troubles. That's why support groups are so ubiquitous; mutual comfort in dialogue and exchange. It's what people do when troubled, worried or in pain; they talk.
> 
> My question for you is this: Why do you not simply ignore the conversation if you don't want to hear about or participate in it?  It's easy enough to do.
> 
> There are many things I don't care to hear about or discuss... so I don't.


I have chosen recently not to participate in any discussion about this particular subject and I do ignore the conversation on here.  I am speaking in general.  One cannot look at a news source even without being bombarded with this.  Further, why does it bother you that I even make my feelings known on this subject?  So what?  It's my opinion, that's all.  You needn't remind me regarding support groups etc.  I definitely know how people interact when beset by adversities.  I wasn't commenting in order to receive a lecture.


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## Paco Dennis (Jan 12, 2022)

By "losing it" i take it to mean not abiding by good manners.? In my experience this happened to me a lot more in ALL my past ( personally ) than now. I am old with almost no friends, I live in the country, and rarely go into the cement jungle. I use to, and people were losing it reguarilly about all kinds of stuff. Actual fighting was way more prevalent. But, i do think that "losing it" as a society is happening, and at an increasing rate. Something has gone terribly wrong with our trust in government and finding out the "truth" on vital questions we have. ( the pandemics, global warming, extreme weather events, the economy, .... ). It is about 10 months before the mid-term elections. I will venture to guess that the tensions are going to increase, and social protests ( either in the streets or organized social media campaigns ) will divide our country even more. I am going to try to stay out of the whole mess if possible...but I already feel the collateral damage way out here in the sticks.


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## Mike (Jan 12, 2022)

Anybody over here shouting at staff, even without expletives,
would be shown the door.

If it was in a hospital, the security would take him to their office
to wait for the police, if it was in his own local surgery, he would
be removed from the list, also when they heard from the hospital,
he would have no health cover because of his attitude.

I see no good in picking on a young receptionist, who is taking his
details for the Doctors, it is not their fault for following instructions.

Very bad behaviour.

Mike.


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## CarolfromTX (Jan 12, 2022)

I can certainly understand the frustration. Perhaps people wouldn’t be so angry if the message didn’t keep changing all the time. Get the vaccine and you’ll be ok. Well, maybe not, so get a booster And you’ll be fine. Except maybe not. If you don’t get vaccinated, you’re fired. But if you get covid, you can come back to work if you’re asymptomatic.

Add to that the empty shelves at the store, severe inflation, and the general name calling by politicians, and you’ve got a hot mess.


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## Medusa (Jan 12, 2022)

Lewkat said:


> I have chosen recently not to participate in any discussion about this particular subject and I do ignore the conversation on here.  I am speaking in general.  One cannot look at a news source even without being bombarded with this.  Further, why does it bother you that I even make my feelings known on this subject?  So what?  It's my opinion, that's all.  You needn't remind me regarding support groups etc.  I definitely know how people interact when beset by adversities.  I wasn't commenting in order to receive a lecture.



_"I have chosen recently not to participate in any discussion about this particular subject and I do ignore the conversation on here."_
My OP was listed under Discussion about Covid-19, specifically.  Even it if popped up in new posts or crossed your line of sight in some other way, there was no need for you to engage.

It doens't bother me that you make your feelings known, sir, other than the fact that your comments detract from rather than add to the conversation. I am merely commenting on the fact that it seems to bother you so much that others want to discuss a certain topic which you do not. Why not, as you say you do, simply not participate?

In any event, I seem to have inadvertently upset you, which was not my intention and for that I apologize. I'm going to leave this right here and comment no further.

Wishing you a good day, Lewkat.  ♥


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## Giantsfan1954 (Jan 12, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> It would have been great if everyone, especially the world's governmets, had just listened to actual scientists and actual researchers, and actual doctors working on the actual front lines. And it would have been super great if governments had chosen or created *one* organization to gather and compile real-time covid data and share it with the world. And I would sure have appreciated unbiased, facts-only news reporting.


Couldn’t agree more!
Seems like every channel has a different “expert” with their own spiel.


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## Medusa (Jan 12, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> By "losing it" i take it to mean not abiding by good manners.? In my experience this happened to me a lot more in ALL my past ( personally ) than now. I am old with almost no friends, I live in the country, and rarely go into the cement jungle. I use to, and people were losing it reguarilly about all kinds of stuff. Actual fighting was way more prevalent. But, i do think that "losing it" as a society is happening, and at an increasing rate. Something has gone terribly wrong with our trust in government and finding out the "truth" on vital questions we have. ( the pandemics, global warming, extreme weather events, the economy, .... ). It is about 10 months before the mid-term elections. I will venture to guess that the tensions are going to increase, and social protests ( either in the streets or organized social media campaigns ) will divide our country even more. I am going to try to stay out of the whole mess if possible...but I already feel the collateral damage way out here in the sticks.


There are so many salient points in this post.  This one in particular, "_Something has gone terribly wrong with our trust in government and finding out the "truth" on vital questions we have. ( the pandemics, global warming, extreme weather events, the economy, .... )_" strikes home with me.

I'm not sure the truth is "findable" anymore or if things have become so convoluted (FUBAR) at this point that there is no truth to be found.

I am also concerned about the further division this will almost certainly cause. We've had the riots, the murder hornets, other things I'm probably forgetting at the moment, which have caused great division (well, maybe the hornets are just scary) and this pandemic is almost certain to cause further dissention. It's disconcerting, but like you, I will likely stay out of it, in a physical sense, as I see nothing but more harm down that road.

I don't know where we're all heading and it does seem pretty gloomy from this angle, but it's possible we could pull a Phoenix-like rise out of this. Maybe we'll all come out super immunized.

Who can say anything for certain at this point?


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## win231 (Jan 12, 2022)

Medusa said:


> There are so many salient points in this post.  This one in particular, "_Something has gone terribly wrong with our trust in government and finding out the "truth" on vital questions we have. ( the pandemics, global warming, extreme weather events, the economy, .... )_" strikes home with me.
> 
> I'm not sure the truth is "findable" anymore or if things have become so convoluted (FUBAR) at this point that there is no truth to be found.
> 
> ...


IMO, we can be certain we're being lied to.


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## Medusa (Jan 12, 2022)

win231 said:


> IMO, we can be certain we're being lied to.


I don't know.  I can't tell.  Up is down and in is out at this point.  I don't know what's going on or not going on...


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## Lewkat (Jan 12, 2022)

Medusa said:


> _"I have chosen recently not to participate in any discussion about this particular subject and I do ignore the conversation on here."_
> My OP was listed under Discussion about Covid-19, specifically.  Even it if popped up in new posts or crossed your line of sight in some other way, there was no need for you to engage.
> 
> It doens't bother me that you make your feelings known, sir, other than the fact that your comments detract from rather than add to the conversation. I am merely commenting on the fact that it seems to bother you so much that others want to discuss a certain topic which you do not. Why not, as you say you do, simply not participate?
> ...


FYI, I am not a sir.


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## Irwin (Jan 12, 2022)

Some people choose to be misinformed, which is why some of the major propagators of disinformation have the highest ratings of any media outlets. You can't force people to accept reality, as bizarre as that sounds. And until we have a meeting of the minds regarding what constitutes facts, chaos will continue to ensue and even escalate to the extent that people will kill or die for their erroneous beliefs. We've already seen several examples of that in the past few decades, such as with the insurrection last year.


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## Medusa (Jan 12, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Some people choose to be misinformed, which is why some of the major propagators of disinformation have the highest ratings of any media outlets. You can't force people to accept reality, as bizarre as that sounds. And until we have a meeting of the minds regarding what constitutes facts, chaos will continue to ensue and even escalate to the extent that people will kill or die for their erroneous beliefs. We've already seen several examples of that in the past few decades, such as with the insurrection last year.


"_You can't force people to accept reality, as bizarre as that sounds._"
It doesn't though, sound bizarre.  Confirmation bias is real.  And too there's the concept (the fact, really) that people need to keep believing whatever it is they believe because to do otherwise would upset their image of themselves and force them to reevaluate that image, themselves and their place in the world.  That's scary, man, and maybe even against human nature, although I'm just guessing at that.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 12, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Some people choose to be misinformed, which is why some of the major propagators of disinformation have the highest ratings of any media outlets. You can't force people to accept reality, as bizarre as that sounds. And until we have a meeting of the minds regarding what constitutes facts, chaos will continue to ensue and even escalate to the extent that people will kill or die for their erroneous beliefs. We've already seen several examples of that in the past few decades, such as with the insurrection last year.


You are right about that, Irwin. Examples in the way-back machine include the Islamic Wars and the Spanish Inquest. But I want to point out that you have fallen victim to a bit of propaganda yourself - you used the word "insurrection" when you referred to a protest. True, that protest was on "federal property", but it's not the first time that's happened. But it's the first time a protest on federal property was characterized as an insurrection.

Times change, though. I think propaganda plays a big part in changing the times. Like, back in the 60s some protesters were sentenced to life in prison for blowing up a police car or two. In these times, no one got a life sentence for burning down entire police stations.

(suddenly, I feel like singing "Dust in the Wind"..lol)


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## Ruthanne (Jan 12, 2022)

JustinCase said:


> I agree with all the postings, I was noticing even shopping at Wal-Mart which is an experience whenever, more aggression & anger.  Driving has always been a defensive activity, but seems to be more speed & tail-gating.


Even long ago there were rude people at WalMart.  I stopped going there because of it long before covid.  I order from Amazon and no one is going to berate me there for sure.


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## Irwin (Jan 12, 2022)

...


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## Ruthanne (Jan 12, 2022)

FYI:. no politics please


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## Murrmurr (Jan 12, 2022)

Irwin said:


> I'm pretty sure what happened on January 6 last year satisfies the definition of insurrection:
> noun​an act or instance of rising in revolt, rebellion, or resistance against civil authority or an established government.​
> 
> 
> ...


I like the term "giant hissy-fit". Accurately defines both, in my opinion.

You haven't changed my mind about the use of the word insurrection by the mainstream media. It has nothing to do with Webster or Oxford, it's purposefully strategic.

I don't watch Fox News. I don't watch the others mentioned in your post, either, or any opinion pieces. Actually, I don't see any differences between mainstream TV news shows and opinion pieces. 

I watch and read what check out as reliable, factual, apolitical news sources, and I especially like the few that report the news with a little humor.


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## Irwin (Jan 13, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> FYI:. no politics please


Deleted.


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## chic (Jan 14, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Everything is political these days... even a pandemic. One side believes in science while the other side's loyalties are first and foremost to their political party. It's pathetic.


It is pathetic and untrue. My "side" as you say is pushing vaccine manda


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## HoneyNut (Jan 14, 2022)

Medusa said:


> But it occurs to me now that it might also be a sign of the times. An indicator of the general fear and frustration we are all beginning to feel with the Covid situation, from the disease itself to the way it's being addressed and presented.


I think it started before covid, hate crimes were increasing before it anyway, but all the politicizing of covid looks like added more types of people for other people to hate.
Though maybe this is nothing new and one of those pendulum things that will eventually go the other way.  I think historically there have been plenty of periods of hate and upset.  I remember my Dad thinking people killing long haired hippies were not doing anything bad (then his own three kids turned into long haired teenagers and he had to change his thinking on that!).
I was a little too young to understand some sort of riots that happened in the late 60s or early 70s, but in a vague way I think things were pretty crazy for a while but eventually calmed down.
Even government showing up with needles isn't new, I remember in elementary school some people (presumably somehow related to some arm of some level of government) showed up every year and injected TB antigen stuff into the inside of our forearms (if I'm remembering correctly, so long ago) and then must have come back to check if we showed any sign of having TB.  As far as I know there was no resistance to that health measure, though eventually it stopped, I don't know why, perhaps public resistance, or maybe TB went away.


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## Medusa (Jan 14, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> I think it started before covid, hate crimes were increasing before it anyway, but all the politicizing of covid looks like added more types of people for other people to hate.
> Though maybe this is nothing new and one of those pendulum things that will eventually go the other way.  I think historically there have been plenty of periods of hate and upset.  I remember my Dad thinking people killing long haired hippies were not doing anything bad (then his own three kids turned into long haired teenagers and he had to change his thinking on that!).
> I was a little too young to understand some sort of riots that happened in the late 60s or early 70s, but in a vague way I think things were pretty crazy for a while but eventually calmed down.
> Even government showing up with needles isn't new, I remember in elementary school some people (presumably somehow related to some arm of some level of government) showed up every year and injected TB antigen stuff into the inside of our forearms (if I'm remembering correctly, so long ago) and then must have come back to check if we showed any sign of having TB.  As far as I know there was no resistance to that health measure, though eventually it stopped, I don't know why, perhaps public resistance, or maybe TB went away.


Do you remember getting the Polio vaccine at school? All of us, of a certain age, I think, have that scar on our shoulders. I remember lining up for that vac at the nurse's office in elementary school.

When my son, who is now 20, was a baby getting his vacs, I was thrilled to learn they had developed one for Chicken Pox. Not only will my son never have to have Chicken Pox, but he won't have to get Shingles either (just had the vacs for those last year - rough).

It is sad, they way some people react when things like this happen, the hate crimes, I mean, the rioting. What does that solve? Who does it help? I understand people are frustrated but that's not an excuse for a lack of basic decency and some displays of appalling ignorance (hate crimes).


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## dseag2 (Jan 14, 2022)

Lewkat said:


> I have chosen recently not to participate in any discussion about this particular subject and I do ignore the conversation on here.  I am speaking in general.  One cannot look at a news source even without being bombarded with this.  Further, why does it bother you that I even make my feelings known on this subject?  So what?  It's my opinion, that's all.  You needn't remind me regarding support groups etc.  I definitely know how people interact when beset by adversities.  I wasn't commenting in order to receive a lecture.


Lois, I actually defended you in my previous post.  I agree with you.  You are spot on!  

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/things-are-getting-a-little-dark.67757/page-2


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## Lewkat (Jan 15, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Lois, I actually defended you in my previous post.  I agree with you.  You are spot on!
> 
> https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/things-are-getting-a-little-dark.67757/page-2


Thank you dseag2.


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