# Is Orlando's debacle a taboo subject?



## suze (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm relatively new here, so I don't know all the rules, implied and imposed, so I'm not sure if some subjects are not acceptable?.
when I signed on and went to hot topics, and general discussions I saw no mention of the terrorist bloodbath today.
is it just a coincidence, or are there taboo subjects?

thanks
suze


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2016)

There is a thread here https://www.seniorforums.com/showthread.php/22564-Orlando-shooting-Let-the-politicizing-begin


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## Guitarist (Jun 12, 2016)

I recommend staying far, far away from any thread like that one.  

They're not fun, you don't really learn anything (except how argumentative people can be, turning from the original attack to attacking each other with words in posts).  

There are lot of fun threads here that are much more .... FUN!  

I wish Matrix and SeaBreeze would delete all the "news" threads.  We can find all we need (and more than we want) on TV and online news sites.  Unless someone here is personally involved with any of these news stories I wish we'd all stick to discussing things we actually know something about.


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2016)

Perhaps you should take your own advice, Guitarist. 
Either that, or adopt a mental detachment when entering the fray.

Personally, I value such threads because I believe that we need to spend some time debriefing after certain events as we try to understand what has happened. If we don't, I think it likely that we will all become so fearful that we won't want to venture outside our homes.


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## Susie (Jun 12, 2016)

Shouldn't we be asking: Why has this terrible massacre happened?
Has it to do with gun laws?
Has it something to do with cultural perception?
Can anyone explain: WHY?


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## fureverywhere (Jun 12, 2016)

Um...always say "Respectfully" before suggesting someone is an idiot.
Don't criticize anyone directly but state your own take clearly and concisely.
Understand everyone has a right to their own opinion even if it comes with foil hats.
Or avoid religion and politics all together...easy yes?


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2016)

Susie said:


> Shouldn't we be asking: Why has this terrible massacre happened?
> Has it to do with gun laws?
> Has it something to do with cultural perception?
> Can anyone explain: WHY?


Reports are coming in that are attempting to uncover the motivation for this attack which is described as America's worst mass shooting. 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-13/orlando-shooter-was-violent-homophobic-reports/7503990


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## ClubMike (Jun 12, 2016)

Well I think it happened because we have just another crazy person with a gun. 

Guns laws did not stop this crazy person, laws never do stop crazy people. (they are crazy they have a hard time concentrating)

Crazy people have been known to use knives and baseball bats and even drive their cars into people. You see that is why they are crazy, I have knives and even a baseball bat and I do drive a truck however, I have never hurt anyone with any of them. (I am clearly not crazy)

So as far as I am concerned crazy people murder, guns are almost never to blame.

The world is full of crazy people, best protect yourself.


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## Robusta (Jun 12, 2016)

Absolutely right ClubMike, couldn't have said it better myself.  Thank You.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 12, 2016)

He was a man with a plan, an ISIS sympathizer and had an assault rifle, in his right mind, I won't insult the mentally ill by comparing him to them.


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## suze (Jun 12, 2016)

Thanks to you guys for responding to my question. I truly didn't know if there was limit on what could be talked about after only one week here.  I really do like the emphasis on positivity I've seen here.  It is true that we are slammed with the news from every type of medium.  I have not watched the news today, and won't tonite, which might seem like a "who cares" type comment, but I come from a family of news junkies.  My dad watched early morning, noon 4pm to 6 pm and of course 10pm.While I have never been that crazy I do watch at least one local and one national news show most days.  I guess I'm naive, but when the 24 hour talking heads came to my attention during "W's" first election, I thought it would end after the election.  I never imagined this would be a permanent thing. On 9/11 I couldn't get enough coverage because I think I was so blown away by the audacity of the terrorists like so much of the nation, but that has morphed into trying to avoid saturating myself with tragedy and grief.  I especially don't want to see pictures of the perpetrators.  I won't be a part of giving them the notoriety (even after death) that some of them seek.  When I realized how little we knew about the victims, and how the only names heard over and over were the killers, it was time to disengage.  I don't want to become desensitized to the frequency of these tragedies. And I believe it could happen.  All I can do is pray, so that's what I do.

suze


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2016)

The people of Orlando are reeling from two high profile shootings In 48 hours. The first resulted in just one death and that was tragic enough. The second has been much worse. The police working at the scene have had to tune out to the constant ringing of mobile phones of the dead. Their relatives have been desperately trying to contact them.

How long ago was Sandy Hook? It was in 2002 and there have been at least 1000 mass shootings since then in the United States.

http://www.vox.com/a/mass-shootings-sandy-hook

Port Arthur, Tasmania was 20 years ago. It was Australia's worst and last mass shooting. God bless John Howard.


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## Bettyann (Jun 12, 2016)

STOP BLAMING MUSLIMS!!!! A HUGE problem in America is due to the miserable, ignorant, bigoted, ugly hateful attitudes...especially amongst the Christian RIGHT....Prime example: the Lt Governor of Texas.... America has GOOD PEOPLE...yes...but there is still the UGLY AMERICAN who honestly believes for some unfathomable reason that we are still "God's Country"... what a sick joke. What is dangerous about religion is that much of it perpetuatessick twisted version of what they call "GOD"...believing every word they were taught...which was steeped in Fear and Guilt Conditioning.... The self-righteous judgment that comes from 'religious people' is sickening... Our government WANTS to keep us divided... we are much easier to control that way.... What happened today in Orlando is not 'isolated' ... it is a visible, manifested result of hateful, prejudiced, bigoted thinking.
The murder of the 50 people was horrendous... our military kills 'nicely' in the name of God and Country...all we have to do is push a button and cause death... or don't 'those people' count????


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2016)

An article from December last year. Yes, it is about guns and gun control. It provides statistics to back up the arguments.
Don't read if you are sick of hearing these messages.



Spoiler



https://theconversation.com/six-things-americans-should-know-about-mass-shootings-48934


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## fureverywhere (Jun 12, 2016)

No it's "Americans" and every John Wayne wannabe. How about Chuck Norris and frickin' bare feet. He could take them all down like that. Same thing with every man, woman and child armed yo...


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## Ruthanne (Jun 12, 2016)

Bettyann said:


> STOP BLAMING MUSLIMS!!!! A HUGE problem in America is due to the miserable, ignorant, bigoted, ugly hateful attitudes...especially amongst the Christian RIGHT....Prime example: the Lt Governor of Texas.... America has GOOD PEOPLE...yes...but there is still the UGLY AMERICAN who honestly believes for some unfathomable reason that we are still "God's Country"... what a sick joke. What is dangerous about religion is that much of it perpetuatessick twisted version of what they call "GOD"...believing every word they were taught...which was steeped in Fear and Guilt Conditioning.... The self-righteous judgment that comes from 'religious people' is sickening... Our government WANTS to keep us divided... we are much easier to control that way.... What happened today in Orlando is not 'isolated' ... it is a visible, manifested result of hateful, prejudiced, bigoted thinking.
> The murder of the 50 people was horrendous... our military kills 'nicely' in the name of God and Country...all we have to do is push a button and cause death... or don't 'those people' count????


Who is blaming Muslims?  The shooter yesterday called 911 and said he was doing it for ISIS!


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## Ruthanne (Jun 12, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> The people of Orlando are reeling from two high profile shootings In 48 hours. The first resulted in just one death and that was tragic enough. The second has been much worse. The police working at the scene have had to tune out to the constant ringing of mobile phones of the dead. Their relatives have been desperately trying to contact them.
> 
> How long ago was Sandy Hook? It was in 2002 and there have been at least 1000 mass shootings since then in the United States.
> 
> ...


So, what is your point?


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## Shalimar (Jun 12, 2016)

There will be a backlash against American Muslims, even though the head of the Muslim American Council has spoken very strongly against ISIL and this massacre.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 12, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> There will be a backlash against American Muslims, even though the head of the Muslim American Council has spoken very strongly against ISIL and this massacre.


Yes, that is what some very ignorant people do(speaking of a backlash).  I really hope it doesn't happen, though.


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## mitchezz (Jun 12, 2016)

ISIS would claim this as their own whether they had anything to do with it or not. They rely on fear and propaganda to promote their reputation. Reacting in an anti Muslim way furthers their cause.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 12, 2016)

mitchezz said:


> ISIS would claim this as their own whether they had anything to do with it or not. They rely on fear and propaganda to promote their reputation. Reacting in an anti Muslim way furthers their cause.


The man was under investigation by the FBI and interviewed 3 times as to possibly being involved in terrorism.


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> So, what is your point?



That moderate measures can limit the carnage, even though nothing will eliminate it entirely.

What worked for us was the banning of certain weapons entirely, and an amnesty period to allow people to surrender these and other firearms without penalty and some compensation for the guns handed in. Also, the licensing and registration of all firearms, with a waiting period before being able to buy one to allow for background checks.

There were protests, of course, but the then conservative PM, John Howard, had the courage to push through and the states co-operated to bring in uniform legislation so that tight controls in one state could not be undermined by lax ones in others.

35 people shot to death, hunted like animals, in one day was a turning point in the national psyche of Australia. That happened 20 years ago and nothing like it has happened since.

The US must find its own solution to the problem of gun violence but inaction will not bring about an end to it. Courageous leadership is one requisite and a population willing to take action is also necessary. Sadly, both seem to be lacking at this moment in history.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 12, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> That moderate measures can limit the carnage, even though nothing will eliminate it entirely.
> 
> What worked for us was the banning of certain weapons entirely, and an amnesty period to allow people to surrender these and other firearms without penalty and some compensation for the guns handed in. Also, the licensing and registration of all firearms, with a waiting period before being able to buy one to allow for background checks.
> 
> ...


Our leadership has been trying to bring about changes like the ones you are talking about but the problem is that our congress is heavily backed by the NRA (National Rifle Association) and they are constantly pointing to our 2nd amendment right to bear arms.  The minute we try to change things they start screaming we are taking away their rights.  If we can get a congress that has more democrats elected this year we may get a chance to change things concerning gun control.  Our leadership is strong but cannot just demand people do what he says automatically, it has to go through the heavily Republican Congress that are hell bent on keeping their second amendment rights.  In reality no one is trying to take away their 2nd amendment rights; only trying to make it harder for guns to get into the hands of the wrong people.  Yet many say that this is not the answer too as we have the black market that sells guns to those who would use it for underhanded reasons.


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2016)

Perhaps a good start would be to ban the AR 15 in the hands of civilians.
No-one really needs such a firearm to protect themselves.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...-orlando-massacre-has-bloody-pedigree-n590581


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## Ruthanne (Jun 12, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Perhaps a good start would be to ban the AR 15 in the hands of civilians.
> No-one really needs such a firearm to protect themselves.
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...-orlando-massacre-has-bloody-pedigree-n590581


I totally agree.  Now do you think I can get the congress to do it?


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2016)

Not by yourself, no, but millions of people in unison demanding the ban might just do the trick.

Paradoxically, I think that it will need a conservative administration and another timely massacre to achieve anything. Hillary will not be able to swing it unless public support is overwhelming.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 12, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Not by yourself, no, but millions of people in unison demanding the ban might just do the trick.
> 
> Paradoxically, I think that it will need a conservative administration and another timely massacre to achieve anything. Hillary will not be able to swing it unless public support is overwhelming.


Our conservatives are the ones opposing gun control. They are the Republicans with the NRA backing them!  Our democrats, liberals and progressives which is what Hillary and Obama and Sanders are are all for gun control.  I have signed petitions for gun control and it still goes through congress.  Demanding a ban doesn't automatically get one, we have to go by the system.


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm working on the principle that only Nixon could get away with going to China.

Also, in Australia, if Labor had proposed national gun regulation it would have failed because the Coalition, consisting of two conservative parties, one urban and one regional, would have been united in opposition. However, John Howard, the conservative PM had the support of Labor and most of his own party. The regional party was upset but they were actually the least affected because farmers had a legitimate right to firearms ownership and they were not likely to favour assault style weapons in any case.

One problem I see that the US has that we don't is that you have 50 states. We only have 6. It is much easier to get agreement between the federal and state governments, even of different sides of the political divide. That is a much harder call when you have 50 states.


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## chic (Jun 13, 2016)

I'm still watching coverage on CNN. The worst shooting spree in America, they say. Trump is calling for Obama's resignation over this issue. What a mess this country is in at the moment. I hope we find a way out of it.


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## oldman (Jun 13, 2016)

The FBI let this guy slide when they had him in their clutches a few years back, just so they could act in a politically correct fashion. We have all read reports about law enforcement being over-zealous and/or doing racial profiling.


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## ossian (Jun 13, 2016)

chic said:


> I'm still watching coverage on CNN. The worst shooting spree in America, they say. Trump is calling for Obama's resignation over this issue. What a mess this country is in at the moment. I hope we find a way out of it.


I heard on the news this morning the stuff being said by Trump. He does really worry me and it did make me think what the heads of the US Armed Services think when he spouts his nonsense. I am pretty sure that they are working on a strategy which he damages every time he provokes ISIS with his 'up and at 'em' rhetoric. As for his condemnation of Obama, well I think it maybe shows that Trump perhaps lacks the powers of diplomacy, caution and consideration that you may want in someone as powerful as the President of th US.

On the gun thing, I think the things should be banned or at very least controlled through extremely restrictive licencing laws. However, just now I am not sure that this would have prevented what has happened in Orlando. It depends on whether or not this guy was operating as an individual claiming allegiance to Islam and ISIS. Or whether he was part of an ISIS organised attack.  

Finally, my thoughts are really with the poor families who have to deal with what has happened. Good luck to them and may their god or faith strengthen them.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 13, 2016)

If they hate us already all we need is Trump to antagonize them more. If they want to accomplish something, target him instead of a bunch of innocent civilians. Dear Lord, when you think of all the survivors suffering today...very difficult to even process the enormity of it.


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## Jackie22 (Jun 13, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> Our leadership has been trying to bring about changes like the ones you are talking about but the problem is that our congress is heavily backed by the NRA (National Rifle Association) and they are constantly pointing to our 2nd amendment right to bear arms.  The minute we try to change things they start screaming we are taking away their rights.  If we can get a congress that has more democrats elected this year we may get a chance to change things concerning gun control.  Our leadership is strong but cannot just demand people do what he says automatically, it has to go through the heavily Republican Congress that are hell bent on keeping their second amendment rights.  In reality no one is trying to take away their 2nd amendment rights; only trying to make it harder for guns to get into the hands of the wrong people.  Yet many say that this is not the answer too as we have the black market that sells guns to those who would use it for underhanded reasons.



I've gave up on ever seeing any kind of gun control from the Republicans, if a room full of dead 6 year olds can't convince them, nothing can.


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## Debby (Jun 13, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> Who is blaming Muslims?  The shooter yesterday called 911 and said he was doing it for ISIS!




I think the concern is that the bias and bigotry against the peaceful Muslims in your country will be exacerbated by these events.   The fact that at the last minute he made that call is of course problematic, but face it, he doesn't speak for all Muslims.  Just like Hillsboro Baptists doesn't speak for all Baptists.    And that shouldn't happen should it?   Didn't his ex-wife also has indicated some mental problems and violence in their home and his father had reported that he became somewhat unhinged when he saw a couple of guys kiss.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 13, 2016)

If this individual was on the FBI terrorist watch list... WHY was he allowed to purchase a firearm?   


ps....  I know the answer... just wondering who else does.


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## Jackie22 (Jun 13, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> If this individual was on the FBI terrorist watch list... WHY was he allowed to purchase a firearm?
> 
> 
> ps....  I know the answer... just wondering who else does.





Democrats passed a bill to outlaw gun sales to people on this list and the Republicans blocked it.


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## Underock1 (Jun 13, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> Um...always say "Respectfully" before suggesting someone is an idiot.



       :laugh:


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## Jackie22 (Jun 13, 2016)

This is the gun that was used in Orlando and Sandy Hook....note the advertising to sell it...


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## Underock1 (Jun 13, 2016)

Bettyann said:


> STOP BLAMING MUSLIMS!!!! A HUGE problem in America is due to the miserable, ignorant, bigoted, ugly hateful attitudes...especially amongst the Christian RIGHT....Prime example: the Lt Governor of Texas.... America has GOOD PEOPLE...yes...but there is still the UGLY AMERICAN who honestly believes for some unfathomable reason that we are still "God's Country"... what a sick joke. What is dangerous about religion is that much of it perpetuatessick twisted version of what they call "GOD"...believing every word they were taught...which was steeped in Fear and Guilt Conditioning.... The self-righteous judgment that comes from 'religious people' is sickening... Our government WANTS to keep us divided... we are much easier to control that way.... What happened today in Orlando is not 'isolated' ... it is a visible, manifested result of hateful, prejudiced, bigoted thinking.
> The murder of the 50 people was horrendous... our military kills 'nicely' in the name of God and Country...all we have to do is push a button and cause death... or don't 'those people' count????



Well I don't think our government "wants" to divide us. They just do. Other than that, I agree with every word of your post. :applause2:


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## QuickSilver (Jun 13, 2016)

Jackie22 said:


> Democrats passed a bill to outlaw gun sales to people on this list and the Republicans blocked it.



We have a winner!


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## Ruthanne (Jun 13, 2016)

Debby said:


> I think the concern is that the bias and bigotry against the peaceful Muslims in your country will be exacerbated by these events.   The fact that at the last minute he made that call is of course problematic, but face it, he doesn't speak for all Muslims.  Just like Hillsboro Baptists doesn't speak for all Baptists.    And that shouldn't happen should it?   Didn't his ex-wife also has indicated some mental problems and violence in their home and his father had reported that he became somewhat unhinged when he saw a couple of guys kiss.


It wasn't at the last minute that he made the call, it was 20 minutes into his attack and the attack lasted for hours.  I don't see a lot of bias and bigotry in the USA against Muslims where I live. We all get along well.  We will see how this plays out.  Isn't it funny how you take this situation and turn it into an attack against all of the people of the US calling them bias and bigots?  You don't live here and you don't know how it really is.  There are a few people like that and they don't represent all of us.  Most of us are caring, loving people.  But you don't see that, do you?


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## Sunny (Jun 13, 2016)

> Well I think it happened because we have just another crazy person with a gun.
> 
> Guns laws did not stop this crazy person, laws never do stop crazy people. (they are crazy they have a hard time concentrating)
> 
> ...



Clubmike, if you were in a crowded place and a crazy, hate-filled person entered, intent on doing harm, would you rather he was armed with a baseball bat or an assault rifle?


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## fureverywhere (Jun 13, 2016)

You notice the ones who point fingers at Muslims being evil as a whole are the same folks who refuse to blame Guns being evil as a whole?





This is just disgusting, just pitiful...make up for your manly shortcomings by owning the biggest gun...weenie bastards...if you browse at gun culture magazines...it's frightening...weapon porn.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2016)

Ruthanne, I understand that America has just gone through another horrific massacre, my heart goes out to you all. But Islamophobia exists, in your country and mine. It is only natural to be concerned that incidents such as this will rev up the haters. I bet we will see Muslim bashing incidents here. The Canadian contingent 

does not think all Americans are racists et al. No, we don't live there, but unless one is blind, deaf, and terminally stupid, there is a serious problem with mass shootings happening in your country.


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## senile1 (Jun 13, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> I recommend staying far, far away from any thread like that one.
> 
> They're not fun, you don't really learn anything (except how argumentative people can be, turning from the original attack to attacking each other with words in posts).
> 
> ...





I must beg to differ on this, my friend. My belief, tis good and healthy to have discussion of controversial subjects. We all have opinions, and should be able to exchange ideas with fellow members. To suggest one sticks to subjects they "know something about" is to also suggest one cut themselves off from the world and the very issues which could effect us all at sometime, such as the Orlando tragedy. This could have happened in your local town and /or neighborhood; at your local grocery story, shopping mall, and/ or  club.


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## Bobw235 (Jun 13, 2016)

Jackie22 said:


> I've gave up on ever seeing any kind of gun control from the Republicans, if a room full of dead 6 year olds can't convince them, nothing can.



Never, ever forget that the NRA is first and foremost a lobbying organization meant to enrich gun manufacturers.  That's it.  That's their sole purpose for existing, to do whatever they can to ensure that their clients sell as many guns as possible, no matter the damage.


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## Ray (Jun 13, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> Um...always say "Respectfully" before suggesting someone is an idiot.
> Don't criticize anyone directly but state your own take clearly and concisely.
> Understand everyone has a right to their own opinion even if it comes with foil hats.
> Or avoid religion and politics all together...easy yes?



That is excellent advise. I once organized a debate between representatives of the two major Parties in our community. We tried to keep it civil via set of rues and a moderator to enforce the rules ("cut the mike" was a very powerful tool).

Anyway, one of the rules was that you could not say "You are wrong" but you could say, "I think you're wrong BECAUSE...." - and it was the "because" that kept the discussion civil yet lively.


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## senile1 (Jun 13, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> You notice the ones who point fingers at Muslims being evil as a whole are the same folks who refuse to blame Guns being evil as a whole?
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Guns, like money and  other physical possessions, are inanimate objects. The want and usage of such possessions is not the fault of the possession, tis the intent of the possessor. Tis the Psych of society which needs addressing, which in the end could render some possessions(such as weapons) unnecessary.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 13, 2016)

senile1 said:


> Guns, like money and  other physical possessions, are inanimate objects. The want and usage of such possessions is not the fault of the possession, tis the intent of the possessor. Tis the Psych of society which needs addressing, which in the end could render some possessions(such as weapons) unnecessary.



I absolutely agree... and that is why we want gun legislation to regulate just what kind of possessor get possession..   In other words.. laws against people not against the gun.


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## Ray (Jun 13, 2016)

*STOP BLAMING MUSLIMS!!!

*Right - let's put the blame where it belongs, Christians, the military, the GOP, the NRA, the guv of Texas, etc. etc. etc.

And - it's those nasty ol' guns. But why stop there? If only we could have seized all box cutters, the 3,000 innocents would not have died on 9/11 when those Christians (ooops, Muslims) crashed those planes.


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## WhatInThe (Jun 13, 2016)

*Boston Bomber connection?*

Apparently not the first violent confrontation or act from an radical Islamic terror suspect in Orlando/area. A "friend" of the Boston Bombers was killed in confrontation  with FBI after they tried to question him. Questions still remain on this one.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/22/news/la-boston-bombing-fbi-shot-orlando-20130522

But yet this killer Mateen was investigated for ties to the Boston Bombers.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/13/omar-mateen-fbi-boston-marathon-tsarnaev

3 FBI investigations and a vague FBI shooting of a terror suspect in the same city?

Any connection to Orlando shooter?


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## Ruthanne (Jun 13, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Ruthanne, I understand that America has just gone through another horrific massacre, my heart goes out to you all. But Islamophobia exists, in your country and mine. It is only natural to be concerned that incidents such as this will rev up the haters. I bet we will see Muslim bashing incidents here. The Canadian contingent
> 
> does not think all Americans are racists et al. No, we don't live there, but unless one is blind, deaf, and terminally stupid, there is a serious problem with mass shootings happening in your country.


I am by no means stupid having earned an M. Ed degree!  Like I said most of us are caring and loving people but there are some 300 million of us and and a small percentage cause trouble.   I haven't heard about all of those mass shootings you talk about only the ones brought to my attention by the tv.  Why do you and others need to malign my country so much?  I don't see anyone on this site *constantly* going after Canada or other countries. I'm sure you wouldn't like your country to be constantly under scrutiny by several people here who just seem to enjoy going after us every day.


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## senile1 (Jun 13, 2016)

Ray said:


> *STOP BLAMING MUSLIMS!!!
> 
> *Right - let's put the blame where it belongs, Christians, the military, the GOP, the NRA, the guv of Texas, etc. etc. etc.
> 
> And - it's those nasty ol' guns. But why stop there? If only we could have seized all box cutters, the 3,000 innocents would not have died on 9/11 when those Christians (ooops, Muslims) crashed those planes.




The blame lies on society as a whole, attempting to pose any group as a victim does absolutely nothing in solving the dilemma, but what it does is  form a "back door" excuse of avoiding the problem and therefore, a solution.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2016)

Senile1,QFT. There was a man arrested on his way to Los Angeles--apparently he was bent on harming gays also. No comment as yet from media re his ethnicity/religion. Appeared to be very western in appearance.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2016)

Wow, Ruthanne, I am not suggesting you are stupid my friend. Nor am I going after America. Many times in the year and a half while I have been on this forum, I have expressed my affection and support for the American people. The man I love is an 

American, for goodness sake. That does not mean I always agree on your country's domestic or foreign policy, anymore than I agree with my own, or Australia's, UK's, etc. As for the Canucks being exempt from criticism, with respect, you are a relative 

newcomer,I assure you we have had our share. Fair enough, Canada is far from perfect. I welcome outside input on how my country can better serve its citizens, and the global village. I am truly sorry if I have hurt your feelings, that was never my intent.


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## senile1 (Jun 13, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Senile1,QFT. There was a man arrested on his way to Los Angeles--apparently he was bent on harming gays also. No comment as yet from media re his ethnicity/religion. Appeared to be very western in appearance.





A very good point Ms. Shalimar, tis the psych of society which needs addressing. We forget the most important race, is the human race, in which we all are brothers and sisters.


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## Lon (Jun 13, 2016)

Bettyann said:


> STOP BLAMING MUSLIMS!!!! A HUGE problem in America is due to the miserable, ignorant, bigoted, ugly hateful attitudes...especially amongst the Christian RIGHT....Prime example: the Lt Governor of Texas.... America has GOOD PEOPLE...yes...but there is still the UGLY AMERICAN who honestly believes for some unfathomable reason that we are still "God's Country"... what a sick joke. What is dangerous about religion is that much of it perpetuatessick twisted version of what they call "GOD"...believing every word they were taught...which was steeped in Fear and Guilt Conditioning.... The self-righteous judgment that comes from 'religious people' is sickening... Our government WANTS to keep us divided... we are much easier to control that way.... What happened today in Orlando is not 'isolated' ... it is a visible, manifested result of hateful, prejudiced, bigoted thinking.
> The murder of the 50 people was horrendous... our military kills 'nicely' in the name of God and Country...all we have to do is push a button and cause death... or don't 'those people' count????



I don't hear anyone blaming ALL Muslims, just this one American Citizen Isis indoctrinated Muslim who blew away 50 people.


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## senile1 (Jun 13, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> I absolutely agree... and that is why we want gun legislation to regulate just what kind of possessor get possession..   In other words.. laws against people not against the gun.




Great point, and my point exactly.


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## Guitarist (Jun 13, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Perhaps you should take your own advice, Guitarist.
> Either that, or adopt a mental detachment when entering the fray.
> 
> Personally, I value such threads because I believe that we need to spend some time debriefing after certain events as we try to understand what has happened. If we don't, I think it likely that we will all become so fearful that we won't want to venture outside our homes.



I'm not afraid to venture from my home -- I love getting out and going places!

I don't need "debriefing" from any of these horrific events because a) I wasn't there so am not traumatized by them; and b) I wasn't a member of a military strike force that got "briefed" before going in. That is what a "debriefing" is, after all -- before going in, operatives are "briefed" on the mission; then afterwards they are "debriefed."

People like us, who live far away from these places, weren't there, have no close friends or family members who were involved, really don't need to discuss these things.  If some prurient interest leads us to do so, I think that is harmful, not helpful. There is nothing we can do about them (except pray), and to dwell upon them can actually make people fearful -- certainly messes up people's minds.  This isn't being an ostrich, it's taking care of ourselves.  

Instead of putting "junk food" into your soul, try feeding it with good news, and quit agonizing over things you can do nothing about.


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## senile1 (Jun 13, 2016)

If one cannot respectfully participate in an intelligent conversation on controversial subjects, one should avoid such threads, I say this most respectfully. On the other hand, these threads cover important issues which effects us all and should be open for discussion.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2016)

I work with refugees. I am not detached, I also have a nephew who worked for Medecin Sans Fronteres. He is currently under a doctor's care for PTSD incurred while serving in the ME. I welcome any and all information which enables me to understand, 

and serve the global village in which I live. My interest in such "events" is compassionate, not prurient, I am not helpless--I serve in a small way by  supporting veterans, and refugees. I respect that this isn't for everyone, but to label a desire to be 

engaged in the nitty gritties of global human tragedy as  somehow "junk food for the soul" insults those of us who
Choose to live lives of service, in whatever way we can. The beauty of a forum such as this, is that there is a plethora of 

subjects from which to choose--no one need read any threads which they find disturbing, the ignore feature is there to block out posters One prefers not deal with. The members Come from a variety of countries and backgrounds--there is room for us all. Pax.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 13, 2016)




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## d0ug (Jun 13, 2016)

All these mass shooting happen in gun free zones. If a few of the people had guns that would not happen. If guns are so bad take them away from the police and military.


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## suze (Jun 13, 2016)

Why does the name Islam have to be included in a description of the killers? Can you imagine if the Klu Klux Klan were called radical Christians? They could be.

suze


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## WhatInThe (Jun 13, 2016)

The Orlando killer attended the same mosque that a 2014 suicide bomber in Syria attended. 

http://www2.wptv.com/web/wptv/news/region-st-lucie-county/fort-pierce/omar-mateen-second-muslim-behind-a-terror-attack-with-ties-to-islamic-center-of-fort-pierce

That suicide bomber was one of  the first known American suicide bombers in that area.


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## d0ug (Jun 13, 2016)

Probably because he claimed he was and said he was doing it for ISIS.
  So if you were killing people and saying it is for Jesus they might call you a Christian


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## Warrigal (Jun 13, 2016)

Ray said:


> Anyway, one of the rules was that you could not say "You are wrong" but you could say, "I think you're wrong BECAUSE...." - and it was the "because" that kept the discussion civil yet lively.


:lol: We were taught that principle by our wonderful fifth grade teacher. We were allowed, even encouraged to raise a hand, wait until called to speak, then we could even challenge 'Sir' about something that he had said or ruled on. Always with respect and reason. Thank you, Mr MacPhee, I will love you till the day I die.


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## Warrigal (Jun 13, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> Why do you and others need to malign my country so much?  I don't see anyone on this site *constantly* going after Canada or other countries. I'm sure you wouldn't like your country to be constantly under scrutiny by several people here who just seem to enjoy going after us every day.



You are not the first to feel this way and I have had to convince other members that I am not anti America on several occasions in the past. I admire the American people and their spirit but I am perplexed by your paralysis in the face of an appalling national malaise. Most Americans would be unaware just how much news from your country is featured on our evening news every day. When I am overseas I hear virtually no Australian news anywhere. We do not scrutinise America on purpose but if I want to I only have to change my Google news page to US and then I can read all of your headlines. You can do the same if you want to see what is happening in my neck of the woods.

I do not apologise for expressing my opinion on lax regulation of firearms in US. The national reluctance to tighten up is a contributing factor to so much unnecessary bloodshed. It was Sandy Hook that convinced me that I should add my voice to support US citizens asking for changes that would limit the deaths. I consider much of the rhetoric in support of open slather to be utter nonsense and I will continue to say so. I can also point to our local situation as proof that things can be different.

Try not to take my position personally. We live in a global village now and a critical voice from another friendly country should not be construed as an attack.


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## d0ug (Jun 13, 2016)

If you believe someone died at Sandy Hook you have been reading the lying media. There is a e-book free on the web that shows the whole truth. It was a poorly made scam and it has been exposed. The FBI web site shows no deaths due to crime that year.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 13, 2016)

omg


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2016)

Wtf?


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## AprilT (Jun 13, 2016)

:drinking:


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Jun 13, 2016)

d0ug said:


> If you believe someone died at Sandy Hook you have been reading the lying media. There is a e-book free on the web that shows the whole truth. It was a poorly made scam and it has been exposed. The FBI web site shows no deaths due to crime that year.



Tell that to the parents of the 20 six and seven year old children who did not come home from school that day.  It is pathetic when someone would suggest the grief of losing your children to a mass murderer is a "scam".  Each time I see someone who would believe internet nonsense and use that garbage to spit in the face of those who will never hold their child close again... will never see their child graduate from school... will never see their child open a Christmas present again... I begin to understand how far we have fallen as a humane society.


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## Bobw235 (Jun 13, 2016)

d0ug said:


> If you believe someone died at Sandy Hook you have been reading the lying media. There is a e-book free on the web that shows the whole truth. It was a poorly made scam and it has been exposed. The FBI web site shows no deaths due to crime that year.



Congratulations, you have just won the prize for the most ridiculous post of the year.  You ought to be ashamed and embarrassed.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 13, 2016)

I'm guessing average age of club goer's gay, straight or sideways is around thirty years old. Fifty virtual children dead and people want to bicker how much they love their firearms...How dare you really?


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## suze (Jun 13, 2016)

I guess they won't "get it" until one of their own gets killed senselessly.

suze


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## d0ug (Jun 14, 2016)

This smells of another attempt at a gun grab by the government. Police do not respond for three hours?  A witness said someone was blocking the door? He was able to reload 5 time and no one attacked him while he was reloading?
  I know Sandy hook was off topic but someone else brought it up[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]A FEMA scam to get more gun laws made. There was a book came out called “No One Died At Sandy Hook “. This book was quickly banned on Amazon books and the government tried to stop everyone from reading it. The author than put it out free in e-book.
http://www.rense.com/general96/NobodyDiedAtSandyHook_final.pdf
Also
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sandy+hook+hoax
No FBI records of any deaths
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9DcuQDwwSE
The actors in this play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeXG3uQu8ZU[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]


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## QuickSilver (Jun 14, 2016)

Oh PULEEEEZE...  that is complete and utter nonsense... you should be ashamed.


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## d0ug (Jun 14, 2016)

I see you commented be fore you checked it out


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## QuickSilver (Jun 14, 2016)

What's to check out?... a few Youtube videos and an article written by Jeff Rense a well known conspiracy theorist and talk show host?   Not worth looking at.


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## d0ug (Jun 14, 2016)

It was not written by Jef Rense so I guess you did not want to learn the truth sorry


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## QuickSilver (Jun 14, 2016)

d0ug said:


> It was not written by Jef Rense so I guess you did not want to learn the truth sorry




Truth yes.... fiction no..


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## Butterfly (Jun 14, 2016)

Gimme a break -- of course those children at Sandy Hook died!


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## senile1 (Jun 14, 2016)

Butterfly said:


> Gimme a break -- of course those children at Sandy Hook died!




I really ignore comments suggesting these events never occurred and /or a conspiracy by the government. In a couple of years some "genius" will be claiming the Orlando shootings were staged in a conspiracy to frame Islamic extremist. When you read stories such as this, remember, somebody is trying to profit off your emotions. Never completely ignore them, for they pose a danger, but never get caught up in their propaganda, deceit and lies. They love and need drama.


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## Shalimar (Jun 14, 2016)

That is appalling.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 14, 2016)

Shali...you can't fix ig'nant...take my hand...and we'll tiptoe to a more entertaining thread...
 Let them wave their manhood and enjoy their foil hats. I used to have a bumper sticker " If I Tried to Argue with You We'd Both Be Wrong"...That sums it up pretty well...hope they don't shoot us in the back as we leave...


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## senile1 (Jun 14, 2016)

d0ug said:


> It was not written by Jef Rense so I guess you did not want to learn the truth sorry






*Jeff Rense* is an American radio talk-show host and conspiracy theorist. Another drama queen making his money trying steer up drama and chaos. A dime a dozen, can find them on any corner.


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## Shalimar (Jun 14, 2016)

Yep, Fur, let's examine my cat pipe verrrrry closely! Lol.


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## suze (Jun 14, 2016)

Everybody,
So sorry to have opened a can of worms here about Orlando.  Although it may seem passive aggressive
it was truly a rookie mistake.

suze


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## ~Lenore (Jun 14, 2016)

*Don't apologize, Suze, everyone who wanted to put their two  cents in. *


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## Shalimar (Jun 14, 2016)

Suze, you haven't done anything wrong, no worries.


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## senile1 (Jun 14, 2016)

d0ug said:


> This smells of another attempt at a gun grab by the government. Police do not respond for three hours?  A witness said someone was blocking the door? He was able to reload 5 time and no one attacked him while he was reloading?
> I know Sandy hook was off topic but someone else brought it up
> A FEMA scam to get more gun laws made. There was a book came out called “No One Died At Sandy Hook “. This book was quickly banned on Amazon books and the government tried to stop everyone from reading it. The author than put it out free in e-book.
> http://www.rense.com/general96/NobodyDiedAtSandyHook_final.pdf
> ...





This is pure falsehood and propaganda of someone trying to profit off victims of this tragedy; they know someone will blindly follow; especially right wing NRA extremist. The more chaos they create , the easier it is to stave off sensible gun legislation.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 14, 2016)

> This is pure falsehood and propaganda of someone trying to profit off victims of this tragedy; they know someone will blindly follow; especially right wing NRA extremist. The more chaos they create , the easier it is to stave off sensible gun legislation.



Now, Senile you're starting to sound actually sensible...plus you have tats, high five son...


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## senile1 (Jun 14, 2016)

suze said:


> Everybody,
> So sorry to have opened a can of worms here about Orlando.  Although it may seem passive aggressive
> it was truly a rookie mistake.
> 
> suze





You, as everyone else here, have the right to voice your opinion regardless of how others may agree / disagree; never stop voicing it.


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## senile1 (Jun 14, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> Now, Senile you're starting to sound actually sensible...plus you have tats, high five son...


Tis the drugs and my 3rd grade reader.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 14, 2016)

Good meds always help...plus here pass the bottle around...


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## Shalimar (Jun 14, 2016)

Drugs? Where??


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## Verisure (Jun 14, 2016)

Well now, if everyone at the club were packing an assault rifle ... it would never have happened. Right?


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## Verisure (Jun 14, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> The Orlando killer attended the same mosque that a 2014 suicide bomber in Syria attended.


Oh pl-e-a-s-e! Spare us the dramatic crap. I wonder how many attended the same church as Ted Bundy. How many people attended the same church where John Wayne Gacy was christened. I wonder who bought manure from he same shop Ed Gein did. How many enjoyed Mrs. Shicklebrüber's apfelstrudel. I wonder if anyone realizes that although a rather high percentage of heroine addicts started out smoking marijuana, it is actually 100% of them started out drinking milk. This is really important information.


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## Shalimar (Jun 14, 2016)

One hundred percent drinking milk? Lolololol.


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## senile1 (Jun 15, 2016)

Verisure said:


> Well now, if everyone at the club were packing an assault rifle ... it would never have happened. Right?



The count would be much higher, a lot of frightened people freaking out and firing indiscriminately.


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## Verisure (Jun 15, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> One hundred percent drinking milk? Lolololol.


Yep! Statistics don't lie. That's dangerous stuff, milk! Stop drinking it now, if you can! If not, you'll be hooked on "H" before you can say "CMM"!


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## Verisure (Jun 15, 2016)

senile1 said:


> The count would be much higher, a lot of frightened people freaking out and firing indiscriminately.


I know.


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## d0ug (Jun 15, 2016)

The Most Thorough Analysis of the Orlando Massacre You'll Ever Hear



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoQYE-zssvQ


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## WhatInThe (Jun 15, 2016)

Verisure said:


> Oh pl-e-a-s-e! Spare us the dramatic crap. I wonder how many attended the same church as Ted Bundy. How many people attended the same church where John Wayne Gacy was christened. I wonder who bought manure from he same shop Ed Gein did. How many enjoyed Mrs. Shicklebrüber's apfelstrudel. I wonder if anyone realizes that although a rather high percentage of heroine addicts started out smoking marijuana, it is actually 100% of them started out drinking milk. This is really important information.



This is not an anomaly. TWO murderers who attended the same mosque committed high profile acts of radial Islamic terrorism. How many people from the churches of Bundy and Gacy became serial killers? Some attendees might have become criminals or committed crime but how many became prolific serial killers? Not saying the entire Mosque consists of terrorists or radicals but there is at least a sub set of members that are dealing in the extreme. 

Even a current member of that same mosque told CNN he thinks something "strange" is going on. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/fit...there-are-more-like-orlando-gunman/vp-AAh0lPj


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## QuickSilver (Jun 15, 2016)

saw this..


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## Butterfly (Jun 15, 2016)

suze said:


> Everybody,
> So sorry to have opened a can of worms here about Orlando.  Although it may seem passive aggressive
> it was truly a rookie mistake.
> 
> suze



No need to apologize.  It's an important topic and one that is all over the news.  Everybody has the right to discuss what they want to.

No "mistake" here --- it's a discussion forum.


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## senile1 (Jun 15, 2016)

*The Black Eyed Peas - Where Is The Love? - YouTube*






​


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## Verisure (Jun 15, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> This is not an anomaly. TWO murderers who attended the same mosque committed high profile acts of radial Islamic terrorism. How many people from the churches of Bundy and Gacy became serial killers? Some attendees might have become criminals or committed crime but how many became prolific serial killers? Not saying the entire Mosque consists of terrorists or radicals but there is at least a sub set of members that are dealing in the extreme.



I understand all of that, WIT, but that sort of information is pulp. It isn't backed up with anything of substance and looks to me like another case of "proof of WMD's". It just winds up the citizen and prepares him to believe the Communists done it! I mean .... the liberals done it! No, I mean the Jews done it! No-no, it was the Japs! Oh yeah, now I remember ....... these days it's the Moslems! They'll be telling us the guy had connections with ISIS, Al Qaida, Hizbollah, The Moslem Brotherhood, the Black Panthers, the *Symbionese Liberation Army, Red September, the PLO, the Taliban, HAMAS, *Al Shabaab, Omar Shariff, and Cyd Charisse.


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## Verisure (Jun 15, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> saw this..
> 
> View attachment 30035



Yeah, but the NRA think a 2 week shooting course - an official NRA membership badge - and attending a Joan Wayne film marathon is all you need to shot straight and true. Anyway, any collateral damage is sure to be some closet pinko communists or liberals._* "I don't know, but I heard the guy who got killed by accident was seen walking past a mosque ..... twice!"
*_


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## suze (Jun 15, 2016)

Thanks Butterfly.  I appreciate the kind words.

sze


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## senile1 (Jun 15, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> One hundred percent drinking milk? Lolololol.





Gotta watch that milk Ms. Salimar, that stuff will kill ya.lol


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## fureverywhere (Jun 15, 2016)

Oy that you want to know a can of worms? My Dad called today. A mix of advanced age and med combinations n' he comes out with things he wouldn't have uttered twenty years ago (for the record he's a golden senior-94). He began to rant about jeez I kind of lost track where he was going...I think it broke down to there are too many mixed people in the US and if people didn't do so many drugs and have so much sex and parents did a better job and everybody went to their church then..."Okay Dad I'll call you soon, you take care now..."


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## Verisure (Jun 15, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> Oy that you want to know a can of worms? My Dad called today. A mix of advanced age and med combinations n' he comes out with things he wouldn't have uttered twenty years ago (for the record he's a golden senior-94). He began to rant about jeez I kind of lost track where he was going...I think it broke down to there are *too many mixed people *in the US and if people didn't do so many drugs and have so much sex and parents did a better job and everybody went to their church then..."Okay Dad I'll call you soon, you take care now..."


I know we're 'off topic' but ..... I remember my grandfather (a real racist) commenting on "mixed people". To prove his point against 'racially mixed' relationships he said,_* "You just have to look to nature! You don't see dogs and cats mating, do you!"  *_Even I knew (at my young age) that white dogs did mate with black dogs, but telling grand-dad that would have awarded me a beating. I kept silent. But I never forgot it.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 15, 2016)

I just see a drag queen doing a perfect copy of "Band of Gold"...at a memorial service. I might break down and never come back. It's not about guns or who you love. It's the senseless slaughter of fifty young people if our government hadn't been asleep at the switch. Same with my hubby's brother...he can buy firearms...back in the day he would go out and bark at bushes. When he was around here a few years ago the local police said they could " keep an eye on him". Meaning even someone armed and a certified nut job...until they start firing they can't be stopped. You wonder why I love a dog who would disembowel him for me? The dog would be innocent protecting his property and family...if he or us didn't get shot first.


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## Verisure (Jun 15, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> ..... It's the senseless slaughter of fifty young people if our government hadn't been *asleep at the switch*. ......


I don't think *"being asleep"* is the problem at all. Quite the contrary. They've been too much awake ....... and rousting other people in Irak and Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Iran, Palestine, Pakistan, Turkey, Cuba, San Salvador, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Panama, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc. etc. etc.

Now, some of those people have had enough and they've decided to try putting america back to sleep. What goes around ......... you know?


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## QuickSilver (Jun 16, 2016)

Asleep at the switch?    Pray tell... How could this have been prevented..  The killer was BORN IN QUEENS NY.   Yes.. he was investigated for by the FBI for terrorist connections but cleared..   There are 300+million people in the USA...  How does the government monitor all of us and our every move?   And even if they tried..  you just know that people would rant over "our intrusive Government"...


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## Verisure (Jun 16, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Asleep at the switch?    Pray tell... How could this have been prevented..  The killer was BORN IN QUEENS NY.   Yes.. he was investigated for by the FBI for terrorist connections but cleared..   There are 300+million people in the USA...  How does the government monitor all of us and our every move?   And even if they tried..  you just know that people would rant over "our intrusive Government"...


I understand what you mean, and of course you're right. On the other hand it sounds like you might be encouraging the NSA to implement even more restrictions and remove even greater "freedoms". But all of that is a saucepan on the floor beneath a leaky roof in the rain. Like I said in my last post, "What goes around .....". Maybe if the US quits pushing people into a corner....  they won't need to charge out of it like a rat with the rabies. 





Then you won't need so much control.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 16, 2016)

Verisure said:


> I understand what you mean, and of course you're right. On the other hand it sounds like you might be encouraging the NSA to implement even more restrictions and remove even greater "freedoms". But all of that is a saucepan on the floor beneath a leaky roof in the rain. Like I said in my last post, "What goes around .....". Maybe if the US quits pushing people into a corner....  they won't need to charge out of it like a rat with the rabies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What I am saying is we cannot have it both ways.  We cannot expect the government to keep us save WITHOUT allowing them the power of surveillance... wouldn't you agree?   And we certainly cannot expect Terrorists to NOT use assault weapons if there are no restrictions on them purchasing them.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 16, 2016)

And we certainly cannot expect Terrorists to NOT use assault weapons if there are no restrictions on them purchasing them. 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/congressman-iraq-war-vet-makes-case-assault-weapons/story?id=39876348


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## Verisure (Jun 16, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> What I am saying is *we cannot have it both ways*.  We cannot expect the government to keep us save WITHOUT allowing them the power of surveillance... wouldn't you agree?   And we certainly cannot expect Terrorists to NOT use assault weapons if there are no restrictions on them purchasing them.


My reply wasn't demonstrative enough, I guess. *"Both ways"* means *TWO CHOICES*. You have *a third choice* which makes the other two unnecessary. Make your government stop using the rest of the world (and its population) as it's your personal door mat.  Saying you "cannot expect your government to make you safe" is one a hell of a mouthful. It is your government that is creating the danger in the first place. Tell me that you at least understand what I am saying this time, whether or not you agree can be discussed.


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## Verisure (Jun 16, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> And we certainly cannot expect Terrorists to NOT use assault weapons if there are no restrictions on them purchasing them.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/congressman-iraq-war-vet-makes-case-assault-weapons/story?id=39876348



[h=1]Saying that War Vets (from any war) want a ban on assault weapons ought to make sense to even the dumbest citizen. What is the one thing all soldiers in a war zone think about most? Going home. And why do you think that is?[/h]


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## Debby (Jun 16, 2016)

Bettyann said:


> STOP BLAMING MUSLIMS!!!! ...........What happened today in Orlando is not 'isolated' ... it is a visible, manifested result of hateful, prejudiced, bigoted thinking.
> The murder of the 50 people was horrendous... our military kills 'nicely' in the name of God and Country...all we have to do is push a button and cause death... or don't 'those people' count????



As I was reading your comment Bettyann, I was reminded that there was a time when Christians were the monsters.  From about 1095 to the 1200's, the Crusaders invaded and murdered non believers.   Then the Inquisitions by the Catholic church in the 1200's when Christians tortured and murdered non-believers....  

It seems like religion goes through periods of extreme violence before sensible minds begin to see a new and more beneficial way to manage their beliefs.  I think there are many Muslims who are beginning to understand and accept the 'new way' but at the same time, due to increasing communication and awareness, the whole world is forced to watch the convulsions of violence coming out of that system.  And one day, if the world survives long enough, we'll see the Muslim community with the odd fringe element left just like the Christians have Westboro Baptist.


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## Shalimar (Jun 16, 2016)

Qft.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 16, 2016)




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## Verisure (Jun 16, 2016)




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## suze (Jun 16, 2016)

Thanks for sharing.  Not sure how it relates to the subject, but I'm sure you do. Gotta love Weird Al!

suze


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## suze (Jun 16, 2016)

Fureverywhere is this a pic of you?

suze


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## suze (Jun 16, 2016)

Debbie,
has anyone ever told you you look like Groucho Marx?


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## Verisure (Jun 16, 2016)

suze said:


> Thanks for sharing.*  Not sure how it relates to the subject*, but I'm sure you do. Gotta love Weird Al!
> 
> suze



It relates to the previous post by FurAllOverThePlace


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## suze (Jun 17, 2016)

​ok thanks


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## WhatInThe (Jun 22, 2016)

The AG admits they seemed to have lost track of the shooters wife?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog..._has_lost_track_of_orlando_shooters_wife.html

There were stories by late last week she was missing then over the last few days I've heard stories of how she's not the sharpest individual and didn't understand what she was getting into. Sounds like pending charges.


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## suze (Jun 22, 2016)

Frankly I don't listen to any mention of the Orlando instrument of destruction, who pretty much is getting what he wants every time his name, his wife, and his ties to terror are mentioned.  Name me five of the victims.  We don't know them.

suze


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