# What are unvaccinated people thinking?



## OscarW

I’ve seen a number of posts in this and other forums where vaccinated people ask: “What are unvaccinated people thinking?”

I don’t purport to speak for all unvaccinated people, but I can tell you what I’m thinking.

I’m thinking:

I have a healthy respect for Covid-19, but I don’t have an irrational fear of it.
I like my odds of not getting Covid-19 in the first place.
If I test positive, I like my odds of being asymptomatic or having a mild case.
If I get a serious case, I like my odds of not dying. I believe the Covid death statistics have been inflated by politics and distorted by co-morbidities.
The vaccine is effective in preventing Covid-19 and/or mitigating its severity.
The vaccine is probably safe and has no long-term side effects. The fly in the ointment is that the vaccine wasn’t tested for long enough to know that for sure. That should be a cause for pause. There’s a reason the FDA requires years of testing for new drugs.
The decision to get the vaccine is a perfectly reasonable one. The decision to hold off in order to see more side effect cards flip is also a perfectly reasonable one.
The decision to get the vaccine should be a medical one; not a political one.
The decision to get the vaccine is best left to individuals and their doctors; not the government.
I am not a stupid, knuckle dragging Neanderthal because I’ve decided to hold off. In fact, I’ve put more thought into this decision than many vaccinated people. Also, I am not evil. I have no ill intent towards others. I will avoid others if there’s even a remote chance I could infect them.
I wish we’d stop demonizing people on the other side of the issue. It’s tearing us apart as a country. We have to recognize this is not going to end well if it continues.


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## rgp

OscarW said:


> I’ve seen a number of posts in this and other forums where vaccinated people ask: “What are unvaccinated people thinking?”
> 
> I don’t purport to speak for all unvaccinated people, but I can tell you what I’m thinking.
> 
> I’m thinking:
> 
> I have a healthy respect for Covid-19, but I don’t have an irrational fear of it.
> I like my odds of not getting Covid-19 in the first place.
> If I test positive, I like my odds of being asymptomatic or having a mild case.
> If I get a serious case, I like my odds of not dying. I believe the Covid death statistics have been inflated by politics and distorted by co-morbidities.
> The vaccine is effective in preventing Covid-19 and/or mitigating its severity.
> The vaccine is probably safe and has no long-term side effects. The fly in the ointment is that the vaccine wasn’t tested for long enough to know that for sure. That should be a cause for pause. There’s a reason the FDA requires years of testing for new drugs.
> The decision to get the vaccine is a perfectly reasonable one. The decision to hold off in order to see more side effect cards flip is also a perfectly reasonable one.
> The decision to get the vaccine should be a medical one; not a political one.
> The decision to get the vaccine is best left to individuals and their doctors; not the government.
> I am not a stupid, knuckle dragging Neanderthal because I’ve decided to hold off. In fact, I’ve put more thought into this decision than many vaccinated people. Also, I am not evil. I have no ill intent towards others. I will avoid others if there’s even a remote chance I could infect them.
> I wish we’d stop demonizing people on the other side of the issue. It’s tearing us apart as a country. We have to recognize this is not going to end well if it continues.



 We see it here on a regular basis. Some posters just cannot add anything substantive to the discussion / topic. As such they just feel a need to berate any poster that disagrees with them.
They just cannot come to terms with the idea that another has a differing opinion on that topic .
It just must be their way, everyone must agree with them.

 It tears us apart here, and as you noted as a nation as well. I have no idea how to stop it, other than perhaps a little at a time, asking those that do, to stop doing it ....... as it serves no purpose.


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## Gaer

Two opinions from men of wisdom!


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## Aunt Bea

I enjoyed your post.

I chose to take the vaccine and believe that it was the right thing for me to do.

I hope that at some point you become comfortable with the science behind the vaccine and the fact that millions of people around the world have taken the vaccine with good results.

Spock -_ “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”_

Captain Kirk answers, _“Or the one.”_


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## Irwin

99.5% of people currently hospitalized for covid-19 haven't been vaccinated, and the cost of those hospitalizations is $40,000 - $70,000, which the rest of us have to pay, either through increased insurance premiums or through higher taxes. So it's not just personal choice when the rest of us pay the price.

Plus there's a healthcare worker shortage, which means nurses and doctors who could be treating patients for other injuries and illnesses are treating covid-19 patients.


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## win231

Irwin said:


> 99.5% of people currently hospitalized for covid-19 haven't been vaccinated, and the cost of those hospitalizations is $40,000 - $70,000, which the rest of us have to pay, either through increased insurance premiums or through higher taxes. So it's not just personal choice when the rest of us pay the price.
> 
> Plus there's a healthcare worker shortage, which means nurses and doctors who could be treating patients for other injuries and illnesses are treating covid-19 patients.


That ridiculous figure is part of the inflation & exaggeration to try to scare everyone into getting the vaccine without any thought.
And the same guilt ploy has been used in the past to sell flu shots - _"If you don't get a flu shot, you're making other people sick."_  It works - for the gullible.


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## win231

OscarW said:


> I’ve seen a number of posts in this and other forums where vaccinated people ask: “What are unvaccinated people thinking?”
> 
> I don’t purport to speak for all unvaccinated people, but I can tell you what I’m thinking.
> 
> I’m thinking:
> 
> I have a healthy respect for Covid-19, but I don’t have an irrational fear of it.
> I like my odds of not getting Covid-19 in the first place.
> If I test positive, I like my odds of being asymptomatic or having a mild case.
> If I get a serious case, I like my odds of not dying. I believe the Covid death statistics have been inflated by politics and distorted by co-morbidities.
> The vaccine is effective in preventing Covid-19 and/or mitigating its severity.
> The vaccine is probably safe and has no long-term side effects. The fly in the ointment is that the vaccine wasn’t tested for long enough to know that for sure. That should be a cause for pause. There’s a reason the FDA requires years of testing for new drugs.
> The decision to get the vaccine is a perfectly reasonable one. The decision to hold off in order to see more side effect cards flip is also a perfectly reasonable one.
> The decision to get the vaccine should be a medical one; not a political one.
> The decision to get the vaccine is best left to individuals and their doctors; not the government.
> I am not a stupid, knuckle dragging Neanderthal because I’ve decided to hold off. In fact, I’ve put more thought into this decision than many vaccinated people. Also, I am not evil. I have no ill intent towards others. I will avoid others if there’s even a remote chance I could infect them.
> I wish we’d stop demonizing people on the other side of the issue. It’s tearing us apart as a country. We have to recognize this is not going to end well if it continues.


One reason people demonize those who choose not to get the vaccine is because their own confidence in the vaccine is shaky & they get reassurance from those who make the same decision they make.  My sister is a perfect example.  When the vaccine was first offered, she didn't want it because she said she didn't trust the safety or effectiveness.  BUT, after her son told her he wouldn't allow her to babysit her grandkids unless she was vaccinated, she got the vaccine.....and (big surprise), she now talks about how safe & effective it is.  She is basically protecting & defending her choice - as people often do.
There is also that need to feel superior to others.


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## Tommy

The OP presents a very cogent argument.  Were I twenty years younger, I might well have made the same decision.


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## ohioboy

OscarW said:


> I’ve seen a number of posts in this and other forums where vaccinated people ask: “What are unvaccinated people thinking?”
> 
> I don’t purport to speak for all unvaccinated people, but I can tell you what I’m thinking.



"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)


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## terry123

We should all be worried about the Delta strain that is now present in every state.  Everybody is free to do as they believe.  I believe in the science and am thankful that all of my family is now vaccinated.  My daughter is a pharmacist and was mainly giving the shots but is back now just filling scripts.  She refuses to put up with people coming into the pharmacy with fever and a cold, refusing to wear a mask and demanding the vaccine!  Her boss understands and says its their right to ask the person to leave the store.  I told her she should write a book and she said nobody would believe it!.


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## Chet

OscarW said:


> I’ve seen a number of posts in this and other forums where vaccinated people ask: “What are unvaccinated people thinking?”
> 
> I don’t purport to speak for all unvaccinated people, but I can tell you what I’m thinking.
> 
> I’m thinking:
> 
> I have a healthy respect for Covid-19, but I don’t have an irrational fear of it.
> I like my odds of not getting Covid-19 in the first place.
> If I test positive, I like my odds of being asymptomatic or having a mild case.
> If I get a serious case, I like my odds of not dying. I believe the Covid death statistics have been inflated by politics and distorted by co-morbidities.
> The vaccine is effective in preventing Covid-19 and/or mitigating its severity.
> The vaccine is probably safe and has no long-term side effects. The fly in the ointment is that the vaccine wasn’t tested for long enough to know that for sure. That should be a cause for pause. There’s a reason the FDA requires years of testing for new drugs.
> The decision to get the vaccine is a perfectly reasonable one. The decision to hold off in order to see more side effect cards flip is also a perfectly reasonable one.
> The decision to get the vaccine should be a medical one; not a political one.
> The decision to get the vaccine is best left to individuals and their doctors; not the government.
> I am not a stupid, knuckle dragging Neanderthal because I’ve decided to hold off. In fact, I’ve put more thought into this decision than many vaccinated people. Also, I am not evil. I have no ill intent towards others. I will avoid others if there’s even a remote chance I could infect them.
> I wish we’d stop demonizing people on the other side of the issue. It’s tearing us apart as a country. We have to recognize this is not going to end well if it continues



If you are just concerned about "I" then no problem, but the pandemic is about "we". You can be a host to the virus and spread it to others where it can become an even worse variant as seems to be happening now, or you can be part of the solution and not part of the problem.


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## feywon

Tommy said:


> The OP presents a very cogent argument.  Were I twenty years younger, I might well have made the same decision.


i'll be 75 next month, but i waited a couple of months to get it so i could research as i often have anomalous reactions to medications ago. My household is vaccinated now but we still take some precautions, especially when going into the city.


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## feywon

OscarW said:


> I’ve seen a number of posts in this and other forums where vaccinated people ask: “What are unvaccinated people thinking?”
> 
> I don’t purport to speak for all unvaccinated people, but I can tell you what I’m thinking.
> 
> I’m thinking:
> 
> I have a healthy respect for Covid-19, but I don’t have an irrational fear of it.
> I like my odds of not getting Covid-19 in the first place.
> If I test positive, I like my odds of being asymptomatic or having a mild case.
> If I get a serious case, I like my odds of not dying. I believe the Covid death statistics have been inflated by politics and distorted by co-morbidities.
> The vaccine is effective in preventing Covid-19 and/or mitigating its severity.
> The vaccine is probably safe and has no long-term side effects. The fly in the ointment is that the vaccine wasn’t tested for long enough to know that for sure. That should be a cause for pause. There’s a reason the FDA requires years of testing for new drugs.
> The decision to get the vaccine is a perfectly reasonable one. The decision to hold off in order to see more side effect cards flip is also a perfectly reasonable one.
> The decision to get the vaccine should be a medical one; not a political one.
> The decision to get the vaccine is best left to individuals and their doctors; not the government.
> I am not a stupid, knuckle dragging Neanderthal because I’ve decided to hold off. In fact, I’ve put more thought into this decision than many vaccinated people. Also, I am not evil. I have no ill intent towards others. I will avoid others if there’s even a remote chance I could infect them.
> I wish we’d stop demonizing people on the other side of the issue. It’s tearing us apart as a country. We have to recognize this is not going to end well if it continues.


You do make reasonable points.  It is an individual choice, but keep in mind every single case of the virus (and it already has produced variants) is an opportunity for mutation.  
As long as you don't put yourself or others at risk it is your business.  And also as long as you aren't rude or unpleasant to those of us who choose to continue wearing masks and wipe store cart handles down because--the variants are popping up and guess what i haven't had cold/flu symptoms for a year and half. Usually get at least one debilitating one a winter and a summer one that's just tiring. (i'll be 75 in month).  i waited a couple of months to get the vax--doing more research and until the age group of my daughter, who lives with me, could be vaccinated at around same time.


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## Don M.

It all boils down to "who do you believe"?  Do you believe the preponderance of scientific information coming from the professionals who research this virus?  Or, do you believe some nonsense posted on Facebook, Twitter, or some internet Blog?


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## Pink Biz

*OscarW said:  "I will avoid others if there’s even a remote chance I could infect them**."*

*Unless you are tested for Covid on a daily basis, there already is much more than a remote chance you currently could be infecting others. The same applies to vaxxed people, but is much less likely.

Do you wear a mask at all times?*


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## OscarW

Don M. said:


> It all boils down to "who do you believe"?  Do you believe the preponderance of scientific information coming from the professionals who research this virus?  Or, do you believe some nonsense posted on Facebook, Twitter, or some internet Blog?


We agree on one thing. Almost all of the information on Facebook, Twitter, and left and right blogs can be summarily dismissed as biased drivel. 

Here's where we disagree. It is a demonstrable fact that the jury is still out on scientific evidence regarding the Covid vaccine. Perhaps someday it will prove the vaccine is highly effective and has no long lasting side effects. Sadly, that day isn't today. I don't know if the vaccine is safe or not. Nobody does. Any one who claims otherwise is ignoring how the scientific method works.


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## Sassycakes

I got vaccinated after my Nephew got the covid in November. He has been in the hospital since getting it. He has had 2 lung transplants and has been on and off ventilators. Because of that my husband and I got vaccinated.


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## OscarW

Chet said:


> If you are just concerned about "I" then no problem, but the pandemic is about "we". You can be a host to the virus and spread it to others where it can become an even worse variant as seems to be happening now, or you can be part of the solution and not part of the problem.


If I understand your argument correctly, you're saying individuals no long have the right to decide what to put into their bodies. If so, we have irreconciliable differences and further discussion is pointless.


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## OscarW

Pink Biz said:


> *OscarW said:  "I will avoid others if there’s even a remote chance I could infect them**."*
> 
> *Do you wear a mask at all times?*


Almost never because I don't believe they work. I view masks as a placebo that gives people a false sense of security.

I understand my opinion is not wildly shared.


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## rgp

Chet said:


> If you are just concerned about "I" then no problem, but the pandemic is about "we". You can be a host to the virus and spread it to others where it can become an even worse variant as seems to be happening now, or you can be part of the solution and not part of the problem.



 The pandemic may be about we. But "I" already have heart disease , and there is a small percentage chance that the vaccine causes innflamation "in" the heart, and a possible buildup of calcium as well.
 I choose not to roll that dice.

 So yes, my main concern is "I".

 You do what ever it is _you_ need to for _*you*_ .......... And I will do the same for myself.


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## rgp

OscarW said:


> Almost never because I don't believe they work. I view masks as a placebo that gives people a false sense of security.
> 
> I understand my opinion is not wildly shared.



 Recently a virologist on talk radioo said , expecting a mask to stop covid, is like expecting a chain-link fence to stop a fly.


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## JonDouglas

Don M. said:


> It all boils down to "who do you believe"?  Do you believe the preponderance of scientific information coming from the professionals who research this virus?  Or, do you believe some nonsense posted on Facebook, Twitter, or some internet Blog?


Oh, there are some very knowledgeable people and data on both sides of this issue.  You might want to see what the inventor of mRNA has to say about vaccinations and not be so quick to believe everything politicians (i.e. the DC bureaucracy) tell you.  Aside from your health and others, there some big money, big ego/pride and big political plays at stake on this.


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## JonDouglas

Tommy said:


> The OP presents a very cogent argument.  Were I twenty years younger, I might well have made the same decision.


Up until I was in my 70s, I never got a flu shot, even though the family doctor said I should.  I never got the flu in all those years One year, he finally wore me down, I got the shot and immediately got the flu.  This time I got the J&J jab not because I thought it would keep me from getting covid but I was pretty sure the govt. would have to give ground to people who'd  been vaccinated and start opening things up and I didn't want to be an mRNA guinea pig.  All that said, I am not afraid of covid.


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## Don M.

OscarW said:


> Here's where we disagree. It is a demonstrable fact that the jury is still out on scientific evidence regarding the Covid vaccine. Perhaps someday it will prove the vaccine is highly effective and has no long lasting side effects. Sadly, that day isn't today. I don't know if the vaccine is safe or not. Nobody does. Any one who claims otherwise is ignoring how the scientific method works.



It will be years before all the evidence surrounding this virus, and the effectiveness/long term effects of the vaccines are known.  That is Years that we May Not have.  The choice then boils down to either believing what is currently known by the professionals who study these things, or taking a chance and waiting for years....in which case, this virus could do a pretty good job of "population control".  

Personally, since we are Not medical/scientific experts, we chose to get the Moderna vaccines earlier this year, and we are doing fine.


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## Don M.

JonDouglas said:


> not be so quick to believe everything politicians (i.e. the DC bureaucracy) tell you.



The last time I checked, this is NOT some US Government/politicians thing....rather it is a Global emergency.  Millions have already died, world wide...and this virus continues to expand....Globally.  While there is Always no shortage of political BS that comes from Washington, this virus Far Exceeds anything coming from the politicians.


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## JonDouglas

Don M. said:


> The last time I checked, this is NOT some US Government/politicians thing....rather it is a Global emergency.  Millions have already died, world wide...and this virus continues to expand....Globally.  While there is Always no shortage of political BS that comes from Washington, this virus Far Exceeds anything coming from the politicians.


You might want to ask why there wasn't all the melee, masking and lockdown during H1N1.  You might not want to say it's worse since they didn't rev up the testing back then and testing/counting now leaves much to be desired ( a whole lot of goalpost moving and counting tricks being played).


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## win231

Chet said:


> If you are just concerned about "I" then no problem, but the pandemic is about "we". You can be a host to the virus and spread it to others where it can become an even worse variant as seems to be happening now, or you can be part of the solution and not part of the problem.


When was your last TB test?  TB is airborne & very contagious.  You can be a carrier & spread it to others & be part of the problem.
There are many other contagious illnesses you should test for daily before leaving your house - to protect others.


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## OscarW

Don M. said:


> It will be years before all the evidence surrounding this virus, and the effectiveness/long term effects of the vaccines are known.  That is Years that we May Not have.  The choice then boils down to either believing what is currently known by the professionals who study these things, or taking a chance and waiting for years....in which case, this virus could do a pretty good job of "population control".
> 
> Personally, since we are Not medical/scientific experts, we chose to get the Moderna vaccines earlier this year, and we are doing fine.


Don,

I sincerely respect your decision. I really do. It's a perfectly rational solution for you.

All I ask is that you afford me and others the right to make the same decision for ourselves based on our own personal facts and circumstances. My doctor advised me to hold off on the vaccine because of my medical history. I would hope you could understand that.


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## win231

feywon said:


> You do make reasonable points.  It is an individual choice, but keep in mind every single case of the virus (and it already has produced variants) is an opportunity for mutation.
> As long as you don't put yourself or others at risk it is your business.  And also as long as you aren't rude or unpleasant to those of us who choose to continue wearing masks and wipe store cart handles down because--the variants are popping up and guess what i haven't had cold/flu symptoms for a year and half. Usually get at least one debilitating one a winter and a summer one that's just tiring. (i'll be 75 in month).  i waited a couple of months to get the vax--doing more research and until the age group of my daughter, who lives with me, could be vaccinated at around same time.


You have it a bit backwards.  It is not the unvaccinated who are rude; _it's the vaccinated who are rude_ & always trying to convince others to do as they do.  That comes from their own shaky confidence in the vaccine as well as their need to feel superior.


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## win231

Don M. said:


> It all boils down to "who do you believe"?  Do you believe the preponderance of scientific information coming from the professionals who research this virus?  Or, do you believe some nonsense posted on Facebook, Twitter, or some internet Blog?


It boils down to whether or not you believe those who have repeatedly lied to us in the past.


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## Sunny

Sassycakes said:


> I got vaccinated after my Nephew got the covid in November. He has been in the hospital since getting it. He has had 2 lung transplants and has been on and off ventilators. Because of that my husband and I got vaccinated.


Sassycakes, your family's experience should be repeated in big capital letters, as an answer to all the anti-vaxxers who believe all the scare-mongering fiction cooked up on the subject.  How many people have any of us known or heard of, who had anything like this kind of awful devastating reaction to the harmless shot?   (Yes, I know some people have had reactions. Very few have had bad reactions. Has anyone ever heard of someone needing a lung transplant,. being put on one of those hellish ventilators, and maybe dying anyway, as a result of a vaccine shot?)

As far as "somewhere down the line," it could turn out that anything at all "could" cause trouble years later. But right now, you have summed up what that illness does.  And we know what it does, unfortunately for some, from real-life experience, not from imaginary fears that have been planted into our heads for whatever reason.


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## win231

OscarW said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome.
> 
> I was hoping to find some civility on this forum. Boy, was I was wrong.


Controllers have to civility.


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## Don M.

OscarW said:


> All I ask is that you afford me and others the right to make the same decision for ourselves based on our own personal facts and circumstances. My doctor advised me to hold off on the vaccine because of my medical history. I would hope you could understand that.



Certainly!  There are some people, especially among the Seniors, who have pre-existing conditions that could cause problems if they get vaccinated.  For those people, following their doctors advise is a Must.  Many of the Seniors who have already died from this virus, and/or had reactions to the vaccines Already had other health issues.  For such people, Caution is Well Advised. 

Seniors, and pre-existing problems are a very minor part of the total effects of this virus.  The overwhelming problems seem to be among those who think they are "bullet proof", and continue to ignore the consequences of their behavior.


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## win231

Don M. said:


> Certainly!  There are some people, especially among the Seniors, who have pre-existing conditions that could cause problems if they get vaccinated.  For those people, following their doctors advise is a Must.  Many of the Seniors who have already died from this virus, and/or had reactions to the vaccines Already had other health issues.  For such people, Caution is Well Advised.
> 
> Seniors, and pre-existing problems are a very minor part of the total effects of this virus.  The overwhelming problems seem to be among those who think they are "bullet proof", and continue to ignore the consequences of their behavior.


Obviously, you have decided they are "minor" to fit your narrative.


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## Don M.

win231 said:


> Obviously, you have decided they are "minor" to fit your narrative.



Since you seem to have little to occupy your day, other than looking for any perceived detail that doesn't fit your agenda, I will Clarify my post.

"Seniors with pre-existing conditions who have died from this virus are a small fraction of the overall numbers."

Does that help?


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## Becky1951

OscarW said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome.
> 
> I was hoping to find some civility on this forum. Boy, was I wrong.


Yes you were wrong, its sad. No respect for others decisions if your not vaccinated.  I was told by my Doctor, "I'm not comfortable advising you to be vaccinated" due to my medical issues.

Be prepared to be labeled Anti vax, or have some imply your uneducated, live in a lower class area etc.  LOL.

I believe its a personal choice to be vaccinated or not.  I am not anti vax, I have had every other vaccine needed through my 70 years. 

Welcome OscarW, your not alone.


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## bingo

as an un vaccinated  person.......myself...
ah...remember the "just say no" drug campaign.. .....


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## Tom 86

*Oscar, I agree.  I got my first shot of Moderna on Jan. 12th.  I went downhill for 4 months till May 20th SIL took me to hospital where I couldn't breathe.  They tested me 3 times no Conav-19.  They still treated me for it because the Cat scan showed my lungs were very bad.
  It's taken till this week 7-20 to get about 1/2 my strength back.

  If I had known that shot was going to almost kill me I would have NEVER got it.  I don't blame those people that say NO to the shot. *


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## OscarW

Becky1951 said:


> Yes you were wrong, its sad. No respect for others decisions if your not vaccinated.  I was told by my Doctor, "I'm not comfortable advising you to be vaccinated" due to my medical issues.
> 
> Be prepared to be labeled Anti vax, or have some imply your uneducated, live in a lower class area etc.  LOL.
> 
> I believe its a personal choice to be vaccinated or not.  I am not anti vax, I have had every other vaccine needed through my 70 years.
> 
> Welcome OscarW, your not alone.


Thank you Becky. I appreciate your note. 

I suspect there are also a lot of nice people on this forum on both sides of this issue. I was hoping to lessen the divide between them.

Like you, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I believe in vaccines, particularly those that have received full FDA approval after years of testing.

I'd characterize my position as "pro-choice" as opposed to "anti-vax." I respect people who decide to get the vaccine. In fact, I eagerly await the day I can get it once I'm comfortable and my doctor gives me the green light.

Thanks again.


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## Skeeter

bingo said:


> as an un vaccinated  person.......myself...
> ah...remember the "just say no" drug campaign.. .....


See lot of comments on ( who you trust ) remember when the same experts said eggs are bad for you ( killing egg market ) then came back 6 months later and said eggs ok  then same people  said coffee is not good for you drink de-caf then came back and de-caf was not good  remember the old encyclopedia  - they had to send out new books every year to correct what the experts said.  Yes WHO can you trust people are dieing  from covid who have been vaccinated


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## OscarW

Tom 86 said:


> *Oscar, I agree.  I got my first shot of Moderna on Jan. 12th.  I went downhill for 4 months till May 20th SIL took me to hospital where I couldn't breathe.  They tested me 3 times no Conav-19.  They still treated me for it because the Cat scan showed my lungs were very bad.
> It's taken till this week 7-20 to get about 1/2 my strength back.
> 
> If I had known that shot was going to almost kill me I would have NEVER got it.  I don't blame those people that say NO to the shot. *


Bummer dude. 

I don't believe people like you should be cannon fodder in the war on Covid.

I hope you fully recover.


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## OscarW

Colleen said:


> Why are these kinds of posts being allowed on here?


Why don't you offer rebuttals to the arguments I and others are making. Attack the arguments, not the people. Ad hominem personal attacks add nothing to a constructive debate. You seem to be quite sure of your position. Surely, you can back it up with a cogent argument or two. Right?


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## Sunny

Don, we're probably both wasting our logic on those who do not want to hear it.


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## JonDouglas

Sunny said:


> Don, we're probably both wasting our logic on those who do not want to hear it.


What you might consider your "logic" is what others might consider to be your "opinion".  Sometimes it can be more effective to not struggle trying to position your self above the other side.  Is your "logic" above that of the scientist who invented mRNA?


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## win231

Don M. said:


> Since you seem to have little to occupy your day, other than looking for any perceived detail that doesn't fit your agenda, I will Clarify my post.
> 
> "Seniors with pre-existing conditions who have died from this virus are a small fraction of the overall numbers."
> 
> Does that help?


No.  Repeating the same meaningless quote does not help.


----------



## Nosy Bee-54

My Mom will be 89 in two months. She has some health issues and wears a pacemaker.  She got the vaccine months ago. First dose no reaction. Second dose slight fever and tired for 48 hrs. She's hardly slowing down and flew to visit relatives for the past 2 weeks. The flight was 4 hours and she has no problem wearing a mask. They sent me a pic a few days ago of her masked relaxing in a chair at a local nails store getting a pedicure. 

Since I believe in science, I did not fall for injecting Clorox. Maybe for some, Clorox has been around for decades, so it's well tested. LOL. Anyway, I just came back from a grocery run. I wore my masked in Trader Joe's and I only saw one other customer with a mask. After storing my bags in the vehicle, I walked (still masked) half a block to a bakery and got some fresh pastry. I'm sure the employees appreciated it because they were masked. 

To each their own but for me if a booster is advised for Moderna, I will try to be first in line.


----------



## hollydolly

Tom 86 said:


> *Oscar, I agree.  I got my first shot of Moderna on Jan. 12th.  I went downhill for 4 months till May 20th SIL took me to hospital where I couldn't breathe.  They tested me 3 times no Conav-19.  They still treated me for it because the Cat scan showed my lungs were very bad.
> It's taken till this week 7-20 to get about 1/2 my strength back.
> 
> If I had known that shot was going to almost kill me I would have NEVER got it.  I don't blame those people that say NO to the shot. *


OMG , Tom, how awful for you to suffer like this in your 80's ..I hope you eventually do regain your full strength but  you must  wish you'd never had it...


----------



## AnnieA

OscarW said:


> Thank you Becky. I appreciate your note.
> 
> I suspect there are also a lot of nice people on this forum on both sides of this issue. I was hoping to lessen the divide between them.
> 
> Like you, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I believe in vaccines, particularly those that have received full FDA approval after years of testing.
> 
> I'd characterize my position as "pro-choice" as opposed to "anti-vax." I respect people who decide to get the vaccine. In fact, I eagerly await the day I can get it once I'm comfortable and my doctor gives me the green light.
> 
> Thanks again.



Probably would've gone over better had you phrased the OP as your personal reasons.  I'm unvaccinated due to existing health issues but don't agree with many of your OP statements.  For instance, I don't feel like the seriousness of the disease for even otherwise health seniors is as low as you stated.  I work in healthcare and have never known an epidemic to kill providers like this has.  Also have never known of a disease to kill a wife on Monday and husband on Friday; these were parents of a good friend who were older seniors but did not have serious pre-existing health conditions.

I can't think of how the OP could possibly lessen a divide since some of the statements are so contrary to what both vaccinated and other unvaccinated people believe.  I don't think there's much that can lessen the divide for most people.  It's an issue in which people have picked sides, dug in their heels and have become more entrenched with each statement that contradicts their stance


----------



## OscarW

AnnieA said:


> Probably would've gone over better had you phrased the OP as your personal reasons.


Annie,

I don’t know how I could have made my opening post any clearer that I was speaking for myself.  Please re read it.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Sassycakes said:


> I got vaccinated after my Nephew got the covid in November. He has been in the hospital since getting it. He has had 2 lung transplants and has been on and off ventilators. Because of that my husband and I got vaccinated.


I'm sorry to hear about your nephew, that is horrible. I hope he pulls through.   My sister's huband's brother died in the hospital from COVID-19, he never made it to the ventilator. But my husband and I got our vaccinations before he died, it just made sense to us, we got them once they were readily available in our area. The benefits outweigh the risks, if I do contract the coronavirus, at least with the vaccine I shouldn't be hospitalized or dead from it.


----------



## AnnieA

OscarW said:


> Annie,
> 
> I don’t know how I could have made my opening post any clearer that I was speaking for myself.  Please re read it.



You're right.  I apologize.  So many times a thread title sets the tone for my interpretation of the OP and that's what happened here.


----------



## win231

win231 said:


> Controllers have to civility.


Controllers have NO civility.


----------



## chic

Sassycakes said:


> I got vaccinated after my Nephew got the covid in November. He has been in the hospital since getting it. He has had 2 lung transplants and has been on and off ventilators. Because of that my husband and I got vaccinated.


 He's still in the hospital after 9 months? My thoughts and prayers to you all. That's such a challenge. I hope his spirits are ok?


----------



## chic

win231 said:


> You have it a bit backwards.  It is not the unvaccinated who are rude; _it's the vaccinated who are rude_ & always trying to convince others to do as they do.  That comes from their own shaky confidence in the vaccine as well as their need to feel superior.


I don't know if they want to feel superior or not. Maybe somewhere deep down inside, they ARE afraid of what will happen to them or their offspring years from now because we don't know that since the vaccine was rushed and everyone bullied to take it. 

In my family, no one wanted the vaccine. The ones who have consented took it because, 1) they would have been fired if they refused and they need the income.

2) They were scared into it by the talk of vaccine passports.

That's it.  I wish people would come together on this issue.


----------



## mellowyellow

A Sydney woman in her 30s died from the virus yesterday and she didn’t have any pre-existing health issues.
I’m glad I’ve had at least one AZ shot and can’t wait for the next one.  Things are going from bad to worse here in NSW.


----------



## Kadee

mellowyellow said:


> A Sydney woman in her 30s died from the virus yesterday and she didn’t have any pre-existing health issues.
> I’m glad I’ve had at least one AZ shot and can’t wait for the next one.  Things are going from bad to worse here in NSW.


They just mentioned the woman you referred to on the nightly news .
@mellowyellow

EDITED TO remove my statement she was a doctor as reported on the nightly news .

Hubby and myself have had both our AZ with no issues


----------



## JonDouglas

mellowyellow said:


> A Sydney woman in her 30s died from the virus yesterday and she didn’t have any pre-existing health issues.
> I’m glad I’ve had at least one AZ shot and can’t wait for the next one.  Things are going from bad to worse here in NSW.


I read somewhere (Reuters, I think) that there were 915 "covid-related" deaths in Australia out of a population of 25.36 million.  That would be about 0.004% or 4 thousandths of one percent.  That seems pretty small and I wondered what pre-covid flu deaths stats were like and I found this in ASPI:

It’s hard to come by data on the number of virus-related deaths in Australia pre-Covid, other than those related to influenza and pneumonia. In 2010 there were 2,373 deaths, in 2014, 2,879 deaths and in 2019, 4,124 deaths.​​What am I missing here?  It seems like earlier years were far worse.  Were there lockdowns and masking in prior years? If not, why all the drama this time?


----------



## John cycling

The fast spreading virus supposedly traveled from China to Seattle within days, if not hours.  Then it was immediately found in all other countries, which means it was already everywhere within weeks and everyone in the world was already exposed to it.  

Now, based on that logic, and since 99.9% of the billions of people in the world have not been affected in the least, unless they were "vaccinated" with well known toxic poisons, then anyone, absolutely anyone who died - did not die from a virus but from other causes.

False press reports coming from the big pharma-petroleum controlled media minions are not evidence of any actual causes of death.


----------



## OscarW

JonDouglas said:


> I read somewhere (Reuters, I think) that there were 915 "covid-related" deaths in Australia out of a population of 25.36 million.  That would be about 0.004% or 4 thousandths of one percent.  That seems pretty small and I wondered what pre-covid flu deaths stats were like and I found this in ASPI:
> 
> It’s hard to come by data on the number of virus-related deaths in Australia pre-Covid, other than those related to influenza and pneumonia. In 2010 there were 2,373 deaths, in 2014, 2,879 deaths and in 2019, 4,124 deaths.​​What am I missing here?  It seems like earlier years were far worse.  Were there lockdowns and masking in prior years? If not, why all the drama this time?



I think the answer to your question can be found in one of my favorite quotes from HL Mencken:

“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.”​
― H.L. Mencken, Minority Report


----------



## win231

Kadee46 said:


> They just mentioned the woman you referred to on the nightly news ,she was a doctor.  @mellowyellow
> 
> Hubby and myself have had both our AZ with no issues


Interesting, because a doctor would likely have been vaccinated.  Which makes us wonder whether she died of Covid despite the vaccine, or she died because of the vaccine.


----------



## win231

Interesting that those individuals who like to call others _"Selfish" & "Uneducated"_ because they choose not to get vaccinated, have nothing to say about my mentioning Tuberculosis & "Getting tested before leaving their house so they don't infect others."   
Yoooohoooo - Don M, Chet, Sunny..........


----------



## Don M.

win231 said:


> Interesting that those individuals who like to call others _"Selfish" & "Uneducated"_ because they choose not to get vaccinated, have nothing to say about my mentioning Tuberculosis & "Getting tested before leaving their house so they don't infect others."
> Yoooohoooo - Don M, Chet, Sunny..........



I didn't reply to your post, because it is SO obvious that you and others, like this John Cycling, are incapable of absorbing the overwhelming amount of evidence surrounding this virus.  So, if it satisfies your limited ability to accept the facts, you can continue to live in your world, and I will continue to ignore your nonsense.  In addition, you may be the First person on this forum that I add to the Ignore list.


----------



## fmdog44

win231 said:


> That ridiculous figure is part of the inflation & exaggeration to try to scare everyone into getting the vaccine without any thought.
> And the same guilt ploy has been used in the past to sell flu shots - _"If you don't get a flu shot, you're making other people sick."_  It works - for the gullible.


That figure is true. Only the conspiracy ducks don't believe it as they lay dying in crowded hospitals unable to accept non-Covid patients. Hospitals should stop accepting the "disbelievers."


----------



## Warrigal

Kadee46 said:


> They just mentioned the woman you referred to on the nightly news ,she was a doctor.  @mellowyellow
> 
> Hubby and myself have had both our AZ with no issues


Hubby had his second AZ last Wednesday and I will have mine next Wednesday. I am grateful for the opportunity. If I come down with Covid my husband will not be able to survive by himself. It will be a nursing home for him. 

Of course I could die any day from a stroke or heart attack so why worry about Covid ? Answer - heart attacks and strokes are not contagious and also I am taking medications to lower the risk of cardovascular disease. In my thinking vaccination is not a magic bullet but it does lower the risks associated with this novel disease.


----------



## ManjaroKDE

We had the non-believers back in the 50's also.  We had our myths, legends and mis-information not unlike today.  But, since I contracted polio in 1954 and have suffered all my life with it's horrendous side effects, let me add my support of the ones who had the good sense to get vaccinated.  I made sure my children had their vaccines thoughout their early years, I never wanted to tell them 'I'm sorry, I didn't believe in them'.


----------



## win231

Don M. said:


> I didn't reply to your post, because it is SO obvious that you and others, like this John Cycling, are incapable of absorbing the overwhelming amount of evidence surrounding this virus.  So, if it satisfies your limited ability to accept the facts, you can continue to live in your world, and I will continue to ignore your nonsense.  In addition, you may be the First person on this forum that I add to the Ignore list.


Hmmmmm, what's missing from your post?
Oh yeah......no mention of Tuberculosis.  Perhaps you missed it, so I'll ask you again:  Do you have a TB test before you leave your house & risk infecting others?  To show you care?  Why not?
Ya know, often times what you _don't _say is so loud, it drowns out what you _do_ say.

You aren't ignoring me.  If you were, you wouldn't have seen my post.
Just admit it.  I'm like a good book you can't put down.


----------



## win231

ManjaroKDE said:


> We had the non-believers back in the 50's also.  We had our myths, legends and mis-information not unlike today.  But, since I contracted polio in 1954 and have suffered all my life with it's horrendous side effects, let me add my support of the ones who had the good sense to get vaccinated.  I made sure my children had their vaccines thoughout their early years, I never wanted to tell them 'I'm sorry, I didn't believe in them'.


Some vaccines are useful.  Some are not.
Some drugs are useful.  Some have destroyed countless lives.


----------



## Elsie

I question the news claiming that Covid caused the deaths of *everyone* who were infected with it, and that it caused their deaths.  Perhaps many of them who did die died because it overtook some some serious internal illness of theirs?


----------



## SeaBreeze

Elsie said:


> I question the news claiming that Covid caused the deaths of *everyone* who were infected with it, and that it caused their deaths.  Perhaps many of them who did die died because it overtook some some serious internal illness of theirs?


I think it's the same as people who die from getting the flu.  They may have had weak immune systems to begin with, perhaps they were sickly or older and their lungs weren't in great condition any more.  But from what I understand, most who died from the flu, died because it developed into pneumonia, and that is what ended up actually killing them.  However, if those victims never were infected by influenza, they would like still be alive today. 

 I imagine that some who got COVID-19 may have died due to the effects it had on their body, and if they didn't get the coronavirus infection, they would still be alive today.  So, directly or indirectly, COVID-19 was responsible for their dying.


----------



## Tom 86

SeaBreeze said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your nephew, that is horrible. I hope he pulls through.   My sister's huband's brother died in the hospital from COVID-19, he never made it to the ventilator. But my husband and I got our vaccinations before he died, it just made sense to us, we got them once they were readily available in our area. The benefits outweigh the risks, if I do contract the coronavirus, at least with the vaccine I shouldn't be hospitalized or dead from it.


*On our early news this morning, they are saying how many people that have had one or both shots go to the hospital then end up dying from the Vaccine, so the corner says.  It can be from 2 weeks to 8 months.  *


----------



## Irwin

OscarW said:


> Almost never because I don't believe they work. I view masks as a placebo that gives people a false sense of security.
> 
> I understand my opinion is not wildly shared.


Actually, a lot of people share your opinion. That's why there's a spike in covid-19 cases.


----------



## OscarW

Irwin said:


> Actually, a lot of people share your opinion. That's why there's a spike in covid-19 cases.


That‘s quite an assertion. Any objective evidence to support it?

I clearly labeled my post as my opinion.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Tom 86 said:


> *On our early news this morning, they are saying how many people that have had one or both shots go to the hospital then end up dying from the Vaccine, so the corner says.  It can be from 2 weeks to 8 months.  *


What is your source?  Who is saying that, and how many people do they claim died from the vaccine?  Keep in mind, there  are a lot of scare tactics and disinformation spreading that is simply false.  These rumors spread on social media and "news" sources which lack honesty and integrity.



> *Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 339 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.* *A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines*. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-



https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html


----------



## SeaBreeze

ManjaroKDE said:


> We had the non-believers back in the 50's also.  We had our myths, legends and mis-information not unlike today.  But, since I contracted polio in 1954 and have suffered all my life with it's horrendous side effects, let me add my support of the ones who had the good sense to get vaccinated.  I made sure my children had their vaccines thoughout their early years, I never wanted to tell them 'I'm sorry, I didn't believe in them'.


Well said, thank you.  I'm sad to hear that you have suffered with Polio for your entire life....hugs.


----------



## Irwin

OscarW said:


> That‘s quite an assertion. Any objective evidence to support it?
> 
> I clearly labeled my post as my opinion.


Your opinion isn't supported by facts.

Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

Science Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

There are plenty more sources out there.


----------



## mrstime

win231 said:


> You have it a bit backwards.  It is not the unvaccinated who are rude; _it's the vaccinated who are rude_ & always trying to convince others to do as they do.  That comes from their own shaky confidence in the vaccine as well as their need to feel superior.


I try to talk people I care about to get the vaccine. I don't need to say more about that.

Our son had Covid 19 a year ago last March, he often reacts poorly to anything in a needle, refuses the flu shots. However he got the vaccine he said he sure doesn't want Covid 19 again. He still has some of the after effects from the first time.

About the speed that the vaccine was produced. There have been other Covids and vaccines for those. So all they had to do was make it for Covid 19 and test it.

Since I have COPD I got the vaccine, why tempt the fates, I would like to live out my life span without letting Covid 19 kill me.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Irwin said:


> Your opinion isn't supported by facts.
> 
> Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus
> https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
> 
> Science Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
> 
> There are plenty more sources out there.


Without citing any sources, or even relating it to the COVID-19 pandemic, common sense tells all of us that masks are of benefit in not spreading or contracting illnesses.

  If I have a bad cold, sore throat, coughing, runny/stuffed nose, sneezing, etc., and I sit in a room with perfectly healthy people, but I wear a mask, chances are they will leave the room without having been infected by me and my bad cold.  If I go into a room full of people who have bad colds, and I wear a mask to protect myself, chances are good I will avoid being infected with their colds.


----------



## SeaBreeze

mrstime said:


> I try to talk people I care about to get the vaccine. I don't need to say more about that.
> 
> Our son had Covid 19 a year ago last March, he often reacts poorly to anything in a needle, refuses the flu shots. However he got the vaccine he said he sure doesn't want Covid 19 again. He still has some of the after effects from the first time.
> 
> About the speed that the vaccine was produced. There have been other Covids and vaccines for those. So all they had to do was make it for Covid 19 and test it.
> 
> Since I have COPD I got the vaccine, why tempt the fates, I would like to live out my life span without letting Covid 19 kill me.


You're a wise lady, and you've raised your son well.


----------



## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> I think it's the same as people who die from getting the flu.  They may have had weak immune systems to begin with, perhaps they were sickly or older and their lungs weren't in great condition any more.  But from what I understand, most who died from the flu, died because it developed into pneumonia, and that is what ended up actually killing them.  However, if those victims never were infected by influenza, they would like still be alive today.
> 
> I imagine that some who got COVID-19 may have died due to the effects it had on their body, and if they didn't get the coronavirus infection, they would still be alive today.  So, directly or indirectly, COVID-19 was responsible for their dying.


Those who don't believe the numbers of Covid deaths are not thinking about deaths due to the effects it had on their body.
They are referring to deaths caused by traffic accidents & other causes that have absolutely nothing to do with Covid.  They'll test for Covid (using their unreliable Covid test) & if it's positive, they'll list the cause of death as Covid.


----------



## OscarW

Irwin said:


> Your opinion isn't supported by facts.
> 
> Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus
> https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
> 
> Science Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
> 
> There are plenty more sources out there.


Congratulations, you just changed the debate. You said, and I quote, “That’s why there's a spike in covid-19 cases.” I asked you to provide evidence for that claim. Instead, you provided general links to pro mask articles. 

Just about everything I read says the spike is primarily due to the delta variant. For example:

https://www.newsweek.com/four-states-seeing-major-spikes-covid-cases-due-delta-variant-1611437

Switching the debate ain’t cool.

PS: I never said my opinion was supported by facts. I was answering a personal question that another poster asked of me. That said, I’m highly suspicious of any “facts” coming out of the government or the media. Their track record for competence, honesty, objectivity, and fairness is abysmal.


----------



## mellowyellow

win231 said:


> Interesting, because a doctor would likely have been vaccinated.  Which makes us wonder whether she died of Covid despite the vaccine, or she died because of the vaccine.



Her name was Adriana Midori Takara, a 38-year-old Brazilian national studying accounting at Sydney’s Kaplan Business School.  Tragic.


----------



## Sunny

A doctor was studying accounting at a business school?

This discussion is getting more bizarre all the time.


----------



## Jules

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-Sydneys-shock-young-coronavirus-victim.html

“Takara, was living in Sydney's CBD with her boyfriend and on the cusp of finishing her graduate degree in accounting at the Kaplan Business School.

One of their housemates was a nurse who recently tested positive for Covid, a friend claimed on Facebook, sending the unvaccinated couple who would later test positive into isolation. “

No where in the articles is there a mention of her being a doctor.  She was working on her Masters in a business program.


----------



## Chris21E

Well passed the one's that are or not vaccinated, we now live with the choice.

Just hope for the best treatment and transition,  then enjoy the here and now.

Trying to dial down the fear, stress of it all. Being a senior is enough...


----------



## Kadee

Jules said:


> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-Sydneys-shock-young-coronavirus-victim.html
> 
> “Takara, was living in Sydney's CBD with her boyfriend and on the cusp of finishing her graduate degree in accounting at the Kaplan Business School.
> 
> One of their housemates was a nurse who recently tested positive for Covid, a friend claimed on Facebook, sending the unvaccinated couple who would later test positive into isolation. “
> 
> No where in the articles is there a mention of her being a doctor.  She was working on her Masters in a business program.


@Jules it was mentioned on the nightly news  at 5 pm last night she was a Doctor,  I should know better not take things stated on the  news as  being 100% correct


----------



## Chris21E

Chris21E said:


> Well passed the one's that are or not vaccinated, we now live with the choice.
> 
> Just hope for the best treatment and transition,  then enjoy the here and now.
> 
> Trying to dial down the fear, stress of it all. Being a senior is enough...


Choice is Not Right or Wrong....


----------



## Irwin

OscarW said:


> Congratulations, you just changed the debate. You said, and I quote, “That’s why there's a spike in covid-19 cases.” I asked you to provide evidence for that claim. Instead, you provided general links to pro mask articles.
> 
> Just about everything I read says the spike is primarily due to the delta variant. For example:
> 
> https://www.newsweek.com/four-states-seeing-major-spikes-covid-cases-due-delta-variant-1611437
> 
> Switching the debate ain’t cool.
> 
> PS: I never said my opinion was supported by facts. I was answering a personal question that another poster asked of me. That said, I’m highly suspicious of any “facts” coming out of the government or the media. Their track record for competence, honesty, objectivity, and fairness is abysmal.



No, you claimed that masks don't work. This is the post you made that I was responding to:


> Almost never because I don't believe they work. I view masks as a placebo that gives people a false sense of security.
> 
> I understand my opinion is not wildly shared.


----------



## Ladybug

rgp said:


> The pandemic may be about we. But "I" already have heart disease , and there is a small percentage chance that the vaccine causes innflamation "in" the heart, and a possible buildup of calcium as well.
> I choose not to roll that dice.
> 
> So yes, my main concern is "I".
> 
> You do what ever it is _you_ need to for _*you*_ .......... And I will do the same for myself.


I agree with you 100%.  I also have heart disease and have had bad reactions to most medications all my life.  I’ll be 75 years old before long and really can’t afford to take the chance.


----------



## chic

JonDouglas said:


> I read somewhere (Reuters, I think) that there were 915 "covid-related" deaths in Australia out of a population of 25.36 million.  That would be about 0.004% or 4 thousandths of one percent.  That seems pretty small and I wondered what pre-covid flu deaths stats were like and I found this in ASPI:
> 
> It’s hard to come by data on the number of virus-related deaths in Australia pre-Covid, other than those related to influenza and pneumonia. In 2010 there were 2,373 deaths, in 2014, 2,879 deaths and in 2019, 4,124 deaths.​​What am I missing here?  It seems like earlier years were far worse.  Were there lockdowns and masking in prior years? If not, why all the drama this time?


I can corroborate. I saw something similar only that Australia had, most recently, 914 CASES and 1 death, and with these stats they are going into a lockdown - again. I think that was the point of it.


----------



## Sunny

Australian figures:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/


----------



## rgp

"Your opinion isn't supported by facts."

 If an opinion is supported by facts , irrefutable fact, is it still an opinion at all?

Examp; Water is wet.......... Is there an opposing opinion?


----------



## Don M.

As a result of this Covid, Life Expectancy in the US fell by 1.5 years in 2020....as a large number of Seniors died.  That should be yet another reason for Seniors to give these vaccines some Serious consideration.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-life-expectancy-fell-sharply-152306967.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall


----------



## Warrigal

If Covid Alpha was a disease of the elderly, it looks like Cocid Delta is cutting down the young. In Australia that is because by now most of the seniors have been vaccinated but vaccines have been rationed. The young have been a lot further down the priority list. it is the unvaccinated who are becoming infected and passing it on to members of their household and their friends and work colleagues.


----------



## Knight

Seems the gene pool is self regulating. 


In the United States, which has experienced more COVID-19 cases and deaths than any other country, the Delta variant represents about 83% of new infections. So far, unvaccinated people represent nearly 97% of severe cases.

https://news.yahoo.com/delta-varian...rus-101928525.html?.tsrc=notification-brknews


----------



## Sunny

Ladybug said:


> I agree with you 100%.  I also have heart disease and have had bad reactions to most medications all my life.  I’ll be 75 years old before long and really can’t afford to take the chance.


Or it could mean the opposite, Ladybug. Many of the people who have died of Covid were already weakened, either by old age or preexisting conditions, or both. So your heart disease could mean that getting the disease could easily finish you off.  The vaccine will not.

Something like 99% of the deaths from Covid have been in *un*vaccinated individuals. And heart disease of one kind of another is very common in older folks. We all have it, to one extent or another. Yet we've (nearly) all been vaccinated.  One conversation I hear a lot around here is, "Which cardiologist do you go to?"  I have never heard of any cardiologist, or any other physician, recommend against getting the vaccine because it might kill them due to their physical ailments. (Maybe some people are actually allergic to the vaccine, though I've never met or heard of one.)

To the contrary, every doctor I've gone to in the last few months asked, first thing, "Have you been vaccinated yet?"  and when I told them I was one of the first, in Jan.-Feb., they all said, "Good."  So, is the entire medical profession in some vast conspiracy to kill off as many humans as possible?  That's what some on this forum would have you believe.

Sweep the political propaganda out, clear your brain, and use your common sense to save your own life, or to save yourself from a horrible illness with devastating side effects that can last for months! And this is not an overstatement; it's the simple truth.


----------



## Tom 86

Only thing I got to say.  When you are born God gives you so many years, days, minutes & seconds to live.  Some die young, others get to 100.  So no matter what you do, you can't cheat God out of his plan for you.  Some survive Conav-19 & others don't.  Their time was up.


----------



## Gary O'

Don M. said:


> Personally, since we are Not medical/scientific experts, we chose to get the Moderna vaccines earlier this year, and we are doing fine.


Glad you're doing fine

My son didn't fare so well

He died four days after getting the Moderna shot
Healthy as a horse
49 yrs old
Dropped in his tracks at the kitchen sink

We're not getting the shot....and we're doing fine


----------



## Brookswood

Quote Without Comment

“In 1736 I lost one of my sons a fine Boy of 4 years old, by the Small Pox. . . . I long regretted bitterly &  still regret that I had not given it to him by Inoculation;  This I mention for the Sake of Parents, who omit that Operation on the Supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a Child died under it; my Example showing that the Regret may be the same either  way; and that therefore the safer should be chosen.” - Benjamin Franklin


----------



## rgp

Gary O' said:


> Glad you're doing fine
> 
> My son didn't fare so well
> 
> He died four days after getting the Moderna shot
> Healthy as a horse
> 49 yrs old
> Dropped in his tracks at the kitchen sink
> 
> We're not getting the shot....and we're doing fine



 When did this happen Gary ? This is the first I've seen of it, so sorry to hear !!

 My condolences to you & your family.


----------



## Brookswood

I have no idea what willfully non vaccinated people are thinking.


----------



## Brookswood

Tom 86 said:


> Only thing I got to say.  When you are born God gives you so many years, days, minutes & seconds to live.  Some die young, others get to 100.  So no matter what you do, you can't cheat God out of his plan for you.  Some survive Conav-19 & others don't.  Their time was up.


The next thing we will be told is that god ordained Kings and Queens to rule buy divine right and we should bend the knee before them.  After all that's god's plan for us.


----------



## rgp

Brookswood said:


> I have no idea what willfully non vaccinated people are thinking.



 They are assesing what it means for _them_, then making their best decision for _themselves. _

 In many cases their first concern is not you . As such, they may decide to pass on the vaccination .


----------



## rgp

Brookswood said:


> The next thing we will be told is that god ordained Kings and Queens to rule buy divine right and we should bend the knee before them.  After all that's god's plan for us.



 Well, I do not believe in god, therfore I'm not to concerned about his plan on anything .... <grin>


----------



## Gary O'

rgp said:


> When did this happen Gary ? This is the first I've seen of it, so sorry to hear !!


Early April

I had an extensive post on it back in April
Not sure which thread


rgp said:


> rgp said:
> 
> 
> 
> My condolences to you & your family.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Thank you, pard


----------



## Brookswood

Knight said:


> Seems the gene pool is self regulating.
> 
> 
> In the United States, which has experienced more COVID-19 cases and deaths than any other country, the Delta variant represents about 83% of new infections. So far, unvaccinated people represent nearly 97% of severe cases.
> 
> https://news.yahoo.com/delta-varian...rus-101928525.html?.tsrc=notification-brknews


Sadly there is little we can do about this.   The willfully non vaccinated people have it all on them now. It's all on them.


----------



## Sunny

Gary, that's very sad. My condolences on what must have been a terrible loss to you and your family.

What did your son die of? Do you know?


----------



## Brookswood

rgp said:


> In many cases their first concern is not you . As such, they may decide to *pass on* the vaccination .


Thank you for telling me that.   My main concern is that they may *pass on* the disease. I know a number of otherwise healthy people of all ages who have had it very badly. Laid out flat on their back in bed for anywhere from two to six weeks.  I know of two people who died from it. It's nasty.


----------



## Lewkat

Nasal swabs never told any professional anyone had COVID-19.  We do not know how many cases there really were or are as a result.  Best thing to do is just use your head as to whether you need it or not.  Healthy folks probably don't require a vaccination.  It has been determined that 90% of those found to have tested positive for the virus never carried it to anyone else.


----------



## Becky1951

Sunny said:


> Or it could mean the opposite, Ladybug. Many of the people who have died of Covid were already weakened, either by old age or preexisting conditions, or both. So your heart disease could mean that getting the disease could easily finish you off.  The vaccine will not.
> 
> Something like 99% of the deaths from Covid have been in *un*vaccinated individuals. And heart disease of one kind of another is very common in older folks. We all have it, to one extent or another. Yet we've (nearly) all been vaccinated.  One conversation I hear a lot around here is, "Which cardiologist do you go to?"  I have never heard of any cardiologist, or any other physician, recommend against getting the vaccine because it might kill them due to their physical ailments. (Maybe some people are actually allergic to the vaccine, though I've never met or heard of one.)
> 
> To the contrary, every doctor I've gone to in the last few months asked, first thing, "Have you been vaccinated yet?"  and when I told them I was one of the first, in Jan.-Feb., they all said, "Good."  So, is the entire medical profession in some vast conspiracy to kill off as many humans as possible?  That's what some on this forum would have you believe.
> 
> Sweep the political propaganda out, clear your brain, and use your common sense to save your own life, or to save yourself from a horrible illness with devastating side effects that can last for months! And this is not an overstatement; it's the simple truth.


"So your heart disease could mean that getting the disease could easily finish you off.  The vaccine will not."

_Most people with heart disease and other health conditions are taking medications for their particular condition and doing just fine. Yes Covid could kill them but your statement, *"The vaccine will not."* how do YOU know it won't? Do you know everyone's health history and if so are you qualified to give that statement?  You have repeatedly stated in former post that *no vaccine is 100% safe*. And here you are telling someone with a heart condition the vaccine will not kill them._ 

"I have never heard of any cardiologist, or any other physician, recommend against getting the vaccine because it might kill them due to their physical ailments." 

_I guess you didn't read the posts of some members here mine included, that explained their Doctors didn't recommend for them to be vaccinated due to their health issu_es.

_"I have never heard of any cardiologist, or any other physician" as I said, you must not have read the posts of some members here mine included, that explained their Doctors didn't recommend for them to be vaccinated due to their health issues. Have you spoken personally to every physician everywhere to get their opinion?  No and not every physician in the world has been asked to publicly give their opinion. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't make so. _

 "(Maybe some people are actually allergic to the vaccine, though I've never met or heard of one.)"

_*Maybe??* What about the people who have had allergic reactions, some serious. That's why they ask people to wait 15 minutes after the vaccine, because some have had reactions! _

"So, is the entire medical profession in some vast conspiracy to kill off as many humans as possible?" 

_Now your twisting what has been posted by others to make it sound like they are conspiracy nuts.

Being concerned about their health and not just jumping in trusting all the "experts" whose opinions change so quickly is not being a conspiracy, its having common sense. _


----------



## Brookswood

Maybe this a clue to what some non vaccinated people are thinking???

The number of  Google searchs for "Where to get Covid vaccine" has had a definite up-tick in the past two weeks. From the graph I saw the number of searches has more than doubled.


----------



## Gary O'

Sunny said:


> Gary, that's very sad. My condolences on what must have been a terrible loss to you and your family.


Thank you, Sunny

My wife didn't hold up well.....for a very long time


Sunny said:


> What did your son die of? Do you know?


Our assertion is the vaccine
He was on some serious meds for his schizophrenia 
Turns out, they didn't even ask him about any of that

We would've had an autopsy, but my lady was in no way up to that
....actually, neither was I

We are in extensive communication with Moderna

Mainly, we just don't want that scene to occur with anybody else


----------



## chic

Brookswood said:


> I have no idea what willfully non vaccinated people are thinking.


We're thinking we don't want to end up paralyzed from the shoulders down hours after getting vaccinated which has happened to some! That's what this unvaccinated lady is thinking.


----------



## Warrigal

Apparently there are some nasty side effects as this poster on Twitter attests -



> Partner had 2nd Pfizer yesterday.
> Only side effect is extraordinary levels of fartiness.
> Anyone else heard of this?


----------



## mrstime

Our 60 year old son reacts badly to most inoculations, and has been told by a doctor that a small pox vaccination would kill him (as the first one when he was 7 almost did). He takes medications for depression, and bipolar and PTSD. He had the Moderna vaccine and had no problem other than a sore arm.


----------



## SeaBreeze

mrstime said:


> Our 60 year old son reacts badly to most inoculations, and has been told by a doctor that a small pox vaccination would kill him (as the first one when he was 7 almost did). He takes medications for depression, and bipolar and PTSD. He had the Moderna vaccine and had no problem other than a sore arm.


Good to hear your son hasn't had any problems with the Moderna, that is the vaccine I had.  I have a neighbor who is a senior and her doctor advised her not to take the vaccine, she has many health issues, on many medications and has been allergic to other vaccines for a long time.  Thank goodness your son didn't have a fatal reaction when he was a child.


----------



## Gary O'

rgp said:


> When did this happen Gary ? This is the first I've seen of it, so sorry to hear !!
> 
> My condolences to you & your family.


I tried to send you a PM but seems I can't

If you PM me, I can fill you in, if you wish


----------



## Butterfly

Gary, this is the first I've heard of your son's death, and I'm so very sorry for your loss.


----------



## JonDouglas

Given the newness of mRNA vaccines, the science on this isn't staying still and it seems smart to me to watch where its going.  What's been learned so far is that the vaccines will NOT stop you from getting covid, may be of some danger to certain groups of people and are of unknown immune efficacy and duration.   There's also the issue of natural immunity vs. vaccinated immunity.  I picked this up from Israeli National News:

_“With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID._​​_By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.”_​​There is also the issues of the rate of reinfection.   Which groups are more likely to get reinfected, should they get covid?  There's some thought that natural immunity will burn out all variants the body might encounter; however, this isn't p;roven.

One bit of truth to understand is that by getting an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, you’re participating in an unprecedented experiment with an unapproved, unproven gene therapy. One other bit of truth is that natural immunity doesn't line the pockets of big pharma, big medical or politicians, so this isn't a course they'll recommend. A third bit of truth is that flu has never been stopped cold and covid-19 and any variant is no exception.

Bottom Line:  It's up to  you to weigh the risks and benefits for any course of action.  That right should never be taken away by fiat.  There was a time flu vaccines were recommended for the elderly and at risk.  Recommending vaccination for everyone is a big step and perhaps an even bigger gamble.

Related References:

Reuters, COVID-19 Tracker, Israel, Vaccination
Israel National News July 13, 2021
Reuters July 13, 2021
Rev Med Virol. 2021;e2260
News Rescue July 15, 2021
NewsWise May 24, 2021
medRxiv January 15, 2021
medRxiv April 24, 2021
Emerg Microbes Infect. 2020; 9(1): 900–902
Nature June 14, 2021
The Times of Israel July 11, 2021
Pfizer July 8, 2021
Nature May 24, 2021
Nature May 26, 2021
American Journal of Medicine January 2021; 134(1): 16-22
Reviews in Cardiovascular Medicine 2020; 21(4): 517-530
Mountain Home May 1, 2021
NBC 26 October 20, 2020


----------



## rgp

Gary O' said:


> I tried to send you a PM but seems I can't
> 
> If you PM me, I can fill you in, if you wish


I see no way to email you either ?

Does start conversation work ?


----------



## Aneeda72

OscarW said:


> We agree on one thing. Almost all of the information on Facebook, Twitter, and left and right blogs can be summarily dismissed as biased drivel.
> 
> Here's where we disagree. It is a demonstrable fact that the jury is still out on scientific evidence regarding the Covid vaccine. Perhaps someday it will prove the vaccine is highly effective and has no long lasting side effects. Sadly, that day isn't today. I don't know if the vaccine is safe or not. Nobody does. Any one who claims otherwise is ignoring how the scientific method works.


I suppose age has a lot to do with it as well As if you have had Covid.  I am 74 so I am not worried about long term or lasting side effects of the vaccine as I do not have that long a time to worry about.  When my disabled sons, both in their thirties, got the vaccine I did not worry about side effects.  Their disabilities made it imperative that they get the shots.

My oldest son, his SO, my daughter, her husband, and the baby all caught Covid.  Everyone but the baby has gotten vaccinated, they prefer not to get Covid again.  My granddaughter and her husband are vaccinated.  This only leaves the 3 youngsters, the great granddaughters, unvaccinated.  As soon as there is a vaccine available they will get it.

I suppose they would need to worry about long term side effects, but at least they will have long enough to worry.


----------



## Aneeda72

Tom 86 said:


> *Oscar, I agree.  I got my first shot of Moderna on Jan. 12th.  I went downhill for 4 months till May 20th SIL took me to hospital where I couldn't breathe.  They tested me 3 times no Conav-19.  They still treated me for it because the Cat scan showed my lungs were very bad.
> It's taken till this week 7-20 to get about 1/2 my strength back.
> 
> If I had known that shot was going to almost kill me I would have NEVER got it.  I don't blame those people that say NO to the shot. *


I could care less if someone gets vaccinated or not.  However, I am not sure the vaccine was responsible for your lung issues.  When the masks came of my husband came down with double pneumonia.  Had nothing to do with the vaccine.  Lots of people got lung issues before there was a vaccine or Covid.

After two rounds of treatment, he still has pneumonia, he’s had it for a month.  He also has an inactive lung cancer nodule.  Nothing to do with Covid or the vaccine he received.


----------



## Aneeda72

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> My Mom will be 89 in two months. She has some health issues and wears a pacemaker.  She got the vaccine months ago. First dose no reaction. Second dose slight fever and tired for 48 hrs. She's hardly slowing down and flew to visit relatives for the past 2 weeks. The flight was 4 hours and she has no problem wearing a mask. They sent me a pic a few days ago of her masked relaxing in a chair at a local nails store getting a pedicure.
> 
> Since I believe in science, I did not fall for injecting Clorox. Maybe for some, Clorox has been around for decades, so it's well tested. LOL. Anyway, I just came back from a grocery run. I wore my masked in Trader Joe's and I only saw one other customer with a mask. After storing my bags in the vehicle, I walked (still masked) half a block to a bakery and got some fresh pastry. I'm sure the employees appreciated it because they were masked.
> 
> To each their own but for me if a booster is advised for Moderna, I will try to be first in line.


Me too, wish I could get the booster now.


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Interesting that those individuals who like to call others _"Selfish" & "Uneducated"_ because they choose not to get vaccinated, have nothing to say about my mentioning Tuberculosis & "Getting tested before leaving their house so they don't infect others."
> Yoooohoooo - Don M, Chet, Sunny..........


I have been tested for tuberculosis 3 times in my lifetime, but I had to leave my house to get tested


----------



## Aneeda72

OscarW said:


> Congratulations, you just changed the debate. You said, and I quote, “That’s why there's a spike in covid-19 cases.” I asked you to provide evidence for that claim. Instead, you provided general links to pro mask articles.
> 
> Just about everything I read says the spike is primarily due to the delta variant. For example:
> 
> https://www.newsweek.com/four-states-seeing-major-spikes-covid-cases-due-delta-variant-1611437
> 
> Switching the debate ain’t cool.
> 
> PS: I never said my opinion was supported by facts. I was answering a personal question that another poster asked of me. That said, I’m highly suspicious of any “facts” coming out of the government or the media. Their track record for competence, honesty, objectivity, and fairness is abysmal.


Threads often go in different directions.  IMO this is NOT a debate just a discussion, we discuss a lot of stuff, which leads to discussing different stuff, which is why threads go in all sorts of directions.  You will get used to this.  AS IT IS COOL.  

If you want to debate something, then I would start a thread that mentions, in your first post, that this is a debate not a discussion.  Just a suggestion, take it or leave it.


----------



## Aneeda72

Knight said:


> Seems the gene pool is self regulating.
> 
> 
> In the United States, which has experienced more COVID-19 cases and deaths than any other country, the Delta variant represents about 83% of new infections. So far, unvaccinated people represent nearly 97% of severe cases.
> 
> https://news.yahoo.com/delta-varian...rus-101928525.html?.tsrc=notification-brknews


I thought India lead in deaths and cases because of Delta


----------



## Aneeda72

Tom 86 said:


> Only thing I got to say.  When you are born God gives you so many years, days, minutes & seconds to live.  Some die young, others get to 100.  So no matter what you do, you can't cheat God out of his plan for you.  Some survive Conav-19 & others don't.  Their time was up.


Yes you can, that is why the Catholic Church is so against suicide, it disrupts God”s plan.  But I’ve always questioned this; if God has a plan for everyone, maybe suicide is part of the plan for certain people.

Oh, dear, I’ve wandered off the thread topic.  I am sorry, I suppose this makes me not cool.  . Bad Aneeda72 Bad old woman.  @OscarW


----------



## Chris21E

Sunny said:


> A doctor was studying accounting at a business school?
> 
> This discussion is getting more bizarre all the time.


----------



## Gary O'

rgp said:


> Does start conversation work ?


It works for me, for PMs, I just don't see that option when I bring up your profile


----------



## ProTruckDriver

@rgp you might want to check your "Privacy" settings for Start Conversation. It might be set to "Nobody". I have my setting set to "Members Only"


----------



## chic

Gary O' said:


> It works for me, for PMs, I just don't see that option when I bring up your profile


Start a conversation should work Gary, if you want to send someone a pm.


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> I have been tested for tuberculosis 3 times in my lifetime, but I had to leave my house to get tested


Golly gee, think of all the people you may have infected.    
And only 3 TB tests in your lifetime?  How reckless & inconsiderate!


----------



## Gary O'

chic said:


> Start a conversation should work Gary, if you want to send someone a pm


I understand, it's just that rgp's profile doesn't show that option...at least for me


----------



## fmdog44

Bottom Line: Vaccinated people are alive and well living life to it's fullest. Unvaccinated lie in hospital beds dying at this writing, The proof is in the pudding caskets.


----------



## chic

fmdog44 said:


> Bottom Line: Vaccinated people are alive and well living life to it's fullest. Unvaccinated lie in hospital beds dying at this writing, The proof is in the pudding caskets.


You sound happy about it. I'm equally happy not to be paralyzed, blind, deaf, suffering tremors, or having issues with vaccine induced autoimmune neuropathy !


----------



## Becky1951

fmdog44 said:


> Bottom Line: Vaccinated people are alive and well living life to it's fullest. Unvaccinated lie in hospital beds dying at this writing, The proof is in the pudding caskets.


"Bottom Line: Vaccinated people are alive and well living life to it's fullest."

Not all of them.  Breakthrough Covid cases have caused some deaths.  Some unvaccinated in hospitals die, some don't.


----------



## ProTruckDriver

fmdog44 said:


> Bottom Line: Vaccinated people are alive and well living life to it's fullest. Unvaccinated lie in hospital beds dying at this writing, The proof is in the pudding caskets.


Nice attitude for us that the vaccine does us no good. Remember what you said because I'm a firm believer on "What goes around ~ Comes around". 
We have not seen the long term effects yet.


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Golly gee, think of all the people you may have infected.
> And only 3 TB tests in your lifetime?  How reckless & inconsiderate!


How many have you had?


----------



## John cycling

chic said:


> I'm equally happy not to be paralyzed, blind, deaf, suffering tremors, or having issues with vaccine induced autoimmune neuropathy !


----------



## Becky1951

fmdog44 said:


> Bottom Line: Vaccinated people are alive and well living life to it's fullest. Unvaccinated lie in hospital beds dying at this writing, The proof is in the pudding caskets.


This is just Tennessee so far, many other states have reported breakthrough deaths.

27 deaths among 1,000+ ‘breakthrough’ COVID-19 cases reported in Tennessee​
"
More than 1,000 cases of the coronavirus have been reported in Tennessee residents who are fully vaccinated, the state said Friday.

During a news briefing, Dr. Lisa Piercey, the Commissioner for the Tennessee Department of Health, discussed the “breakthrough” cases and revealed 195 of those fully vaccinated residents who tested positive for the virus had been hospitalized.

*She added 27 of the patients had died*."  Those 27 are not alive and well living life to its fullest. 

"*195 of those fully vaccinated residents who tested positive for the virus had been hospitalized*."

Those 195 fully vaccinated in the hospital are laying along side the unvaccinated in the hospital. 
They also are causing the numbers of hospitalized over burdening the health care system.  


https://www.wbtw.com/health/coronav...h-cases-covid-19-cases-reported-in-tennessee/


----------



## Becky1951

Becky1951 said:


> This is just Tennessee so far, many other states have reported breakthrough deaths.
> 
> 27 deaths among 1,000+ ‘breakthrough’ COVID-19 cases reported in Tennessee​
> "
> More than 1,000 cases of the coronavirus have been reported in Tennessee residents who are fully vaccinated, the state said Friday.
> 
> During a news briefing, Dr. Lisa Piercey, the Commissioner for the Tennessee Department of Health, discussed the “breakthrough” cases and revealed 195 of those fully vaccinated residents who tested positive for the virus had been hospitalized.
> 
> *She added 27 of the patients had died*."  Those 27 are not alive and well living life to its fullest.
> 
> "*195 of those fully vaccinated residents who tested positive for the virus had been hospitalized*."
> 
> Those 195 fully vaccinated in the hospital are laying along side the unvaccinated in the hospital.
> They also are causing the numbers of hospitalized over burdening the health care system.
> 
> 
> https://www.wbtw.com/health/coronav...h-cases-covid-19-cases-reported-in-tennessee/


Adding to my post.
195 vaccinated in the hospital, 27 died.

195 unvaccinated were in the hospital, would 27 die? 20? 60? 5?


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> How many have you had?


None.


----------



## win231

fmdog44 said:


> Bottom Line: Vaccinated people are alive and well living life to it's fullest. Unvaccinated lie in hospital beds dying at this writing, The proof is in the pudding caskets.


Bottom Line:  The only thing more amusing than a programmed robot is a drama-queen programmed robot.


----------



## chic

ProTruckDriver said:


> Nice attitude for us that the vaccine does us no good. Remember what you said because I'm a firm believer on "What goes around ~ Comes around".
> We have not seen the long term effects yet.


This is what I have been thinking also. You really don't know what may happen in six months, a year or two years. It's all experimental. It worries me hugely that the U.S. is now looking to vaccinate 5-12 year olds. Please NO!!


----------



## JonDouglas

Questions that smart people ask:

What is rising faster the rate of new symptonatic covid cases among the vaccinated or among the unvaccinated.  We're talking rate of change, up or down, not count.  It's the rate of change you need to watch, not the count on any given dfay.
How do the countries with the highest percent of injections compare with those with the least?
If the first round of injections didn't slow covid, why would anyone think another round would?
What is the absolute percentage of risk reduction provided by the 4 vaccines available in the U.S.?
If vaccines really work, why is the CDC reinstating masking?
If masking is really effective, why do you need vaccination.
Which provides better protection against the variants, natural/herd immunity of vaccine immunity?
What new strains are already in the U.S.?  (Hint:  It's more than one)


----------



## win231

JonDouglas said:


> Questions that smart people ask:
> 
> What is rising faster the rate of new symptonatic covid cases among the vaccinated or among the unvaccinated.  We're talking rate of change, up or down, not count.  It's the rate of change you need to watch, not the count on any given dfay.
> How do the countries with the highest percent of injections compare with those with the least?
> If the first round of injections didn't slow covid, why would anyone think another round would?
> What is the absolute percentage of risk reduction provided by the 4 vaccines available in the U.S.?
> If vaccines really work, why is the CDC reinstating masking?
> If masking is really effective, why do you need vaccination.
> Which provides better protection against the variants, natural/herd immunity of vaccine immunity?
> What new strains are already in the U.S.?  (Hint:  It's more than one)


It's amazing what fear does to some people.  So many lose the ability to apply logic & are content to let others do their thinking for them.


----------



## Chris21E

win231 said:


> It's amazing what fear does to some people.  So many lose the ability to apply logic & are content to let others do their thinking for them.


True, Not realizing that the choice was between two fears with all the same possible outcomes...

Choice working for some, not others. No blame, just life playing out


----------



## Butterfly

win231 said:


> None.



I've had two or maybe it was three -- courtesy of the US Army.


----------



## Aneeda72

Butterfly said:


> I've had two or maybe it was three -- courtesy of the US Army.


Yes, I had two in the army and one as a civilian.  They are required for health care or food service workers


----------



## Warrigal

I was innoculated against TB as a child and after that skin tests were useless. They always showed a positive reaction. I would then be referred for a chest Xray to make sure there was no TB. 

A chest Xray was a requirement for entry into teaching and that is the last time I bothered. TB was effectively eliminated in Australia by a combination of skin tests, Xrays and immunisation.

Lets hope that with a combination of measures we can also eliminate Covid 19.


----------



## Lakeland living

win231 said:


> You have it a bit backwards.  It is not the unvaccinated who are rude; _it's the vaccinated who are rude_ & always trying to convince others to do as they do.  That comes from their own shaky confidence in the vaccine as well as their need to feel superior.


Have found the same here,


----------



## JonDouglas

It is being reported that the reason CDC is calling for masking again is because there's new data that suggests vaccinated individuals are showing higher levels of virus and the ability to infect others.  If true, that they're not sharing this with the public is understandable (i.e., politics).  Also on the wires is data out of Israel showing the population at over 80% vaccinated, but the new cases of Covid are about 84% with vaccinated individuals.  Having seen this from multiple sources, there is a good probability it is true.  Is ADE in play?


----------



## Aneeda72

Lakeland living said:


> Have found the same here,


I have never tried to get someone who is unvaccinated to get vaccinated.  Generalizations are, IMO, of no use at all.  I believe everyone has a right to choose to be vaccinated or not.  Just as they have a right to get sick and risk dying a horrific death.

In fact, at the risk of sounding uncaring, the healthy able to be vaccinated people who don’t get vaccinated, should, as soon as possible, expose themselves to the Covid virus in order to gain natural protection for themselves, contribute toward herd immunity, and protect the people the unvaccinated expose themselves to.

At the present time the long term negative effects of the virus vs. the long term negatives effects of being vaccinated seem to be in favor of the virus-as I have heard of long haulers in terms of the virus; but not in terms of the vaccinated.

I would simply suggest that the unvaccinated people, who go out and about mask less, make sure their affairs are in order.  This will spare their relatives time and expense.


----------



## Aneeda72

JonDouglas said:


> It is being reported that the reason CDC is calling for masking again is because there's new data that suggests vaccinated individuals are showing higher levels of virus and the ability to infect others.  If true, that they're not sharing this with the public is understandable (i.e., politics).  Also on the wires is data out of Israel showing the population at over 80% vaccinated, but the new cases of Covid are about 84% with vaccinated individuals.  Having seen this from multiple sources, there is a good probability it is true.  Is ADE in play?


  It’s the Delta variety of Covid that is the problem.  I have heard, on the news, you can be infected within 15 seconds when unvaccinated.  I have not heard how fast you can be infected if you have been vaccinated.  In any event, I a, sure the scientists are working on a vaccine for the Delta Covid and will give it as a booster shot.  I’d get a booster shot every month if possible.


----------



## JonDouglas

Aneeda72 said:


> It’s the Delta variety of Covid that is the problem. I have heard, on the news, you can be infected within 15 seconds when unvaccinated. I have not heard how fast you can be infected if you have been vaccinated. In any event, I a, sure the scientists are working on a vaccine for the Delta Covid and will give it as a booster shot. I’d get a booster shot every month if possible.


What about the Columbian and Brazilian variants?


----------



## Aneeda72

JonDouglas said:


> What about the Columbian and Brazilian variants?


What about them?  Delta is the major worry now.


----------



## JonDouglas

Aneeda72 said:


> What about them?  Delta is the major worry now.


They're both spreading rapidly down south, especially in areas where people are coming in from those countries.   Will you have to have an mRNA jab for every variant?   Regardless, we now know that vaccines aren't going to stop covid.


----------



## Aneeda72

JonDouglas said:


> They're both spreading rapidly down south, especially in areas where people are coming in from those countries.   Will you have to have an mRNA jab for every variant?   Regardless, we now know that vaccines aren't going to stop covid.


Yes, I will.  I prefer to die in my sleep or suddenly by whatever cause.  I AM DNI/DNR.  Death by drowning in my own fluids does not appeal to me.


----------



## JonDouglas

Aneeda72 said:


> Yes, I will.  I prefer to die in my sleep or suddenly by whatever cause.  I AM DNI/DNR.  Death by drowning in my own fluids does not appeal to me.


A rather sarcastic, but thinking, individual made this grim observation on another forum: _ Ingenious. Push people to get the shot, they become spreaders, then blame the new variant and the unvaxxed, more people are scared into getting the shot, and they become spreaders. Rinse and repeat._


----------



## Sliverfox

My goal is to live longer than my father who died 3 months  short of his 101  birthday.
If booster shots are going to be the norm,, I'll be getting one.

Meantime I'll sit  back & read what the scientist think about  the spread of Covid & its  variants.


----------



## JonDouglas

Sliverfox said:


> My goal is to live longer than my father who died 3 months  short of his 101  birthday.
> If booster shots are going to be the norm,, I'll be getting one.
> 
> Meantime I'll sit  back & read what the scientist think about  the spread of Covid & its  variants.


I trust those won't be the same scientists who said the vaccine would prevent covid.


----------



## John cycling

JonDouglas said:


> A rather sarcastic, but thinking, individual made this grim observation on another forum: _ Ingenious. Push people to get the shot, they become spreaders, then blame the new variant and the unvaxxed, more people are scared into getting the shot, and they become spreaders. Rinse and repeat._



I've been saying the same thing for the last 18 months.  In fact, they've been doing the same thing for centuries.
What they did in 1918 <-- is the same thing they're doing again now.


----------



## oldman

Had I known what I know now, I'm not sure that I would have been vaccinated. The Cleveland Clinic has stated that natural immunity is better than vaccinations, so since I did have COVID, I should have better antibodies or more antibodies or whatever the vaccines are producing that I should have been able to take a pass on taking the vaccine. Yes, no, what?


----------



## Becky1951

oldman said:


> Had I known what I know now, I'm not sure that I would have been vaccinated. The Cleveland Clinic has stated that natural immunity is better than vaccinations, so since I did have COVID, I should have better antibodies or more antibodies or whatever the vaccines are producing that I should have been able to take a pass on taking the vaccine. Yes, no, what?


Yes or no is hard to answer.

I have wondered if a person with natural immunity and given the vaccine, does the vaccine mess with that persons immunity in a sense that it could cause mixed signals causing future problems with a persons immunity response?


----------



## ProTruckDriver

Becky1951 said:


> I have wondered if a person with natural immunity and given the vaccine, does the vaccine mess with that persons immunity in a sense that it could cause mixed signals causing future problems with a persons immunity response?


I wondered the same. We will find out in a few years what the outcome will be. It scares me the way they are pushing this new vaccine and now giving it to the very young. The mandate of wearing the mask again will be a turn off for people deciding to get the vaccine IMHO.


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> It’s the Delta variety of Covid that is the problem.  I have heard, on the news, you can be infected within 15 seconds when unvaccinated.  I have not heard how fast you can be infected if you have been vaccinated.  In any event, I a, sure the scientists are working on a vaccine for the Delta Covid and will give it as a booster shot.  I’d get a booster shot every month if possible.


I solved that problem.  Every 14 seconds, I run back in the house, then I go out again, & run back in.
I've already lost 15 lbs.


----------



## Brookswood

rgp said:


> k ?





rgp said:


> They are assesing what it means for _them_, then making their best decision for _themselves. _
> 
> In many cases their first concern is not you . As such, they may decide to pass on the vaccination .


Ok.


----------



## Brookswood

Apparently, more people are making the decision to get vaccinated. . 

Yesterday was the highest level of vaccinations in weeks.  500,000 new people vaccinated in the USA and 750,000 total doses administered.    This follows the news that searching for _Where to find a vaccination?_   has had a small but signifcant upward turn.   We'll see what happens from here.


----------



## Jeff_RN/Paramedic

My wife and I have been running in circles dealing with one pandemic or epidemic after another for decades in the heathcare arena.
If it wasn't a bird flu or a swine flu or any number of other viral diseases like HIV/AIDS, it was Hep-C or small pox threats or anthrax or one of many government weaponized organisms secretly developed and tested on unknowing civilians. There are literally millions of bacterial and viral diseases out there that each of us is actively fighting off every day. It's all part of the cycle of life. We're all part of the process of living and dying.
In dealing with untold hundreds (maybe thousands) of people at the end of their lives over these past decades, I don't recall but a small handful who lamented the time they spent here amongst the living so much as I recall the regrets they had in not living as full a life as they thought they should have with the time given. I'm not so worried of dying from COVID or from a vaccine that does/does not work as much as I'm worried about dying with my own bag of regrets about life......because a lifetime caring for the sick and the injured has taught me one thing, in the end, I am going to die. I want to be ok with myself when that time comes.


----------



## Nosy Bee-54

Brookswood said:


> Apparently, more people are making the decision to get vaccinated. .
> 
> Yesterday was the highest level of vaccinations in weeks.  500,000 new people vaccinated in the USA and 750,000 total doses administered.    This follows the news that searching for _Where to find a vaccination?_   has had a small but signifcant upward turn.   We'll see what happens from here.


Several factors are influencing the uptick in vaccinations include the Delta variant and those wise individuals who want to continue getting employment income. 

"Billionaire Ken Langone told CNBC on Wednesday that all of his businesses will mandate employees be vaccinated against Covid once the shots receive full approval from the Food and Drug Administration.

“You get the FDA to say it’s final, it’s approved, and I can guarantee you all the places I’m involved in, if you don’t get vaccinated you will get fired,” Langone said on “Squawk Box.” “You have an obligation to your fellow man to protect him as well as yourself.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/get...witter_impression=true&recirc=taboolainternal

I don't think a fired individual can collect unemployment. So a preference to stay unvaccinated might entail starting one's own business. Being your own boss. Not a bad alternative, I guess.


----------



## Becky1951

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> Several factors are influencing the uptick in vaccinations include the Delta variant and those wise individuals who want to continue getting employment income.
> 
> "Billionaire Ken Langone told CNBC on Wednesday that all of his businesses will mandate employees be vaccinated against Covid once the shots receive full approval from the Food and Drug Administration.
> 
> “You get the FDA to say it’s final, it’s approved, and I can guarantee you all the places I’m involved in, if you don’t get vaccinated you will get fired,” Langone said on “Squawk Box.” “You have an obligation to your fellow man to protect him as well as yourself.”
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/get...witter_impression=true&recirc=taboolainternal
> 
> I don't think a fired individual can collect unemployment. So a preference to stay unvaccinated might entail starting one's own business. Being your own boss. Not a bad alternative, I guess.


"I don't think a fired individual can collect unemployment."

I think they can but its a longer waiting period to receive benefits. ???


----------



## OscarW

Jeff_RN/Paramedic said:


> My wife and I have been running in circles dealing with one pandemic or epidemic after another for decades in the heathcare arena.
> If it wasn't a bird flu or a swine flu or any number of other viral diseases like HIV/AIDS, it was Hep-C or small pox threats or anthrax or one of many government weaponized organisms secretly developed and tested on unknowing civilians. There are literally millions of bacterial and viral diseases out there that each of us is actively fighting off every day. It's all part of the cycle of life. We're all part of the process of living and dying.
> In dealing with untold hundreds (maybe thousands) of people at the end of their lives over these past decades, I don't recall but a small handful who lamented the time they spent here amongst the living so much as I recall the regrets they had in not living as full a life as they thought they should have with the time given. I'm not so worried of dying from COVID or from a vaccine that does/does not work as much as I'm worried about dying with my own bag of regrets about life......because a lifetime caring for the sick and the injured has taught me one thing, in the end, I am going to die. I want to be ok with myself when that time comes.



Nice post.

It reminded me of a line in the Jimmy Buffet song, Growing Older But Not Up:

“I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead.”


----------



## Jeff_RN/Paramedic

OscarW said:


> Nice post.
> 
> It reminded me of a line in the Jimmy Buffet song, Growing Older But Not Up:
> 
> “I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead.”


----------



## Aneeda72

Sliverfox said:


> My goal is to live longer than my father who died 3 months  short of his 101  birthday.
> If booster shots are going to be the norm,, I'll be getting one.
> 
> Meantime I'll sit  back & read what the scientist think about  the spread of Covid & its  variants.


Why do you want to live that long?  I would hate to live that long.


----------



## Jeff_RN/Paramedic

Sliverfox said:


> My goal is to live longer than my father who died 3 months  short of his 101  birthday.
> If booster shots are going to be the norm,, I'll be getting one.
> 
> Meantime I'll sit  back & read what the scientist think about  the spread of Covid & its  variants.


An old toast:    May you live as long as you want......and never want, as long as you live.


----------



## Brookswood

More good news on the use of the mRNA vaccines.  If a person decides to get a vaccine  he or she might want to seriously consider the mRNA type if that is available. But note that no vaccine is a perfect defense against infection and full blown Covid.    

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/07/overlooked-superpower-mrna-vaccines



> A U.S. study used a different design, testing nearly 4000 front-line workers weekly, regardless of whether they had symptoms. Full vaccination with either Pfizer or Moderna vaccines was 90% effective against any infection, researchers reported in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. And in a study of more than 23,000 U.K. health care workers tested every 2 weeks, most of whom were vaccinated with the Pfizer jab, vaccination was 85% effective against infection.
> 
> 
> These studies were conducted before the spread of the Delta variant, for which real-world data on asymptomatic infection are still lacking. But lab studies are promising, suggesting mRNA vaccines may inhibit asymptomatic Delta infection, too. Last week, separate groups at New York University and Yale University posted preprints analyzing blood serum from people vaccinated with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Antibodies generated by those vaccines lost little of their potency against the Delta variant.


----------



## Gary O'

Butterfly said:


> Gary, this is the first I've heard of your son's death, and I'm so very sorry for your loss.


Sorry, Butterfly, I missed your post

Yeah, it was quite the shock
Some things in life just bring you to yer knees

Not supposed to outlive yer kids


----------



## Brookswood

Gary O' said:


> Not supposed to outlive yer kids


That's very sad.   It's the wrong order.


----------



## JonDouglas

Just an interesting piece of information that does not seem to be an isolated example. Why would the most heavily vaccinated areas have the highest new case rates?   ADE?


----------



## JonDouglas

JonDouglas said:


> Just an interesting piece of information that does not seem to be an isolated example. Why would the most heavily vaccinated areas have the highest new case rates?   ADE?


Given the extent to which new case rates seem to map to higher vaccination rates, there are some questions that need to be asked yet again.

Why does the government and its media proxies blame low vaccination rates when the highest rates of new infections seem to be happening in the most heavily vaccinated areas?  
What is the vaccination rate/status of government workers and to what extent are the y being pressured to vaccinate?
Why won't they say how many people in the White House have been vaccinated?
Why are they privately saying most masks don't work but publicly insisting they be worn?  
Where is the data showing children and young people are at any significant risk?  
Where is the data showing the statistical difference between regular flu deaths and covid deaths?
Why was the inaccurate PCR test allowed to be used as a data basis for mandate decisions?  
Why did the CDC use counting procedures that greatly inflated covid counts?


----------



## John cycling

The vaccinations are the virus.
Hopefully more people will start waking up to this ongoing heartless reality.


----------



## WhatInThe

They should be doing more testing of the vaxxed and previously infected to see more precisely what this variant is doing. Some places they are saying hospitals and doctors are skipping testing if vax is on record.


----------



## JonDouglas

WhatInThe said:


> They should be doing more testing of the vaxxed and previously infected to see more precisely what this variant is doing. Some places they are saying hospitals and doctors are skipping testing if vax is on record.


There needs to be a major focus on antibody testing for immunity studies.  Along those lines, this just came across my wires a bit ago (I many have seen/posted it earlier/somewhere else)

Precision Vaccinations:  Natural Immunity After COVID-19 Found Durable and Robust

Also of interest was WSJ:  Why Is the FDA Attacking a Safe, Effective Drug?  The answer to that one is easy and obvious.


----------



## OscarW

JonDouglas said:


> There needs to be a major focus on antibody testing for immunity studies.  Along those lines, this just came across my wires a bit ago (I many have seen/posted it earlier/somewhere else)
> 
> Precision Vaccinations:  Natural Immunity After COVID-19 Found Durable and Robust
> 
> Also of interest was WSJ:  Why Is the FDA Attacking a Safe, Effective Drug?  The answer to that one is easy and obvious.


The WSJ article is quite telling. And yes, the answer is easy and obvious.


----------



## ProTruckDriver

The signs say it all:


----------



## Robert59

I got my first shot today from the health department. Health department said since I'm blood type 0+ I'm less likely to get virus but I got it anyway.


----------



## Warrigal

When did you get the virus?
Are you sure that is what they said?

Group O+ is the most common blood type and I don't think Group Os have more natural immunity than A, B or AB.


----------



## Jeff_RN/Paramedic

Warrigal said:


> When did you get the virus?
> Are you sure that is what they said?
> 
> Group O+ is the most common blood type and I don't think Group Os have more natural immunity than A, B or AB.


Some sources state that blood type can impact a person's ability to either contract or ward off a covid infection with O type blood making it harder to acquire a virus load sufficient to get a full on covid infection. In other words, they say type O shows more resiliency to the viral attack.
But I've not done much research on it myself.


----------



## Warrigal

I'm trusting behaviour modification more than natural immunity right now. 
My immune system has always been robust but I am happy to have it educated by appropriate inoculation against the nastier pathogens.


----------



## Jeff_RN/Paramedic

Warrigal said:


> I'm trusting behaviour modification more than natural immunity right now.
> My immune system has always been robust but I am happy to have it educated by appropriate inoculation against the nastier pathogens.


Yes......you have to remain vigilant about those little nasties.


----------



## ProTruckDriver

I hope that O+ is true. That would be the only thing I have going for me if it is since the vaccine is worthless to me.


----------



## Jeff_RN/Paramedic

Blood type and COVID-19? | MIT Medical


----------



## gamboolman

Gary O' said:


> Glad you're doing fine
> 
> My son didn't fare so well
> 
> He died four days after getting the Moderna shot
> Healthy as a horse
> 49 yrs old
> Dropped in his tracks at the kitchen sink
> 
> We're not getting the shot....and we're doing fine


Gary O',
So sorry for you and your wifes loss of your son.

ms gamboolgal and I lost our 34 year old son, Jeffrey,  totally unexpectedly on 27-Oct-19 while we were in Nigeria working.  Jeff had heart disease that we did not know of and he died at our home in Spring, Texas. 

It is not right nor natural for a parent to bury a child.

Sincere condolences for you and your family during this hard time sir. 

gamboolman....


----------



## chic

Jeff_RN/Paramedic said:


> Some sources state that blood type can impact a person's ability to either contract or ward off a covid infection with O type blood making it harder to acquire a virus load sufficient to get a full on covid infection. In other words, they say type O shows more resiliency to the viral attack.
> But I've not done much research on it myself.


Is it true type A is most susceptible to it? That's what I read/heard a long while ago. I don't even remember anymore. I can't quite tell from the MIT chart.


----------



## Remy

My over 90 YO stepfather was on the fence about it. He told me last evening though he went into the drug store and got his first shot, goes back in 3 weeks for the second. I think the delta variant finally did it. 

I'm fully vaccinated, have no faith in the thing and I'm keeping my mask on.


----------



## Chris P Bacon




----------



## charry

I’m  thinking..........what are you thinking about, having this poison pumped into you, when they havnt even tested  it properly.........the reactions you get.....plus , it’s long term effect you will have to worry about , over 80s first, now they want to to inject babies and children.....


----------



## win231

Remy said:


> My over 90 YO stepfather was on the fence about it. He told me last evening though he went into the drug store and got his first shot, goes back in 3 weeks for the second. I think the delta variant finally did it.
> 
> I'm fully vaccinated, have no faith in the thing and I'm keeping my mask on.


Well, uh......you're fully vaccinated & "have no faith in it."   There's a joke in there somewhere.


----------



## hollydolly

chic said:


> Is it true type A is most susceptible to it? That's what I read/heard a long while ago. I don't even remember anymore. I can't quite tell from the MIT chart.



_People with blood groups A or AB appear to exhibit greater COVID-19 disease severity than people with blood groups O or B, according to a separate retrospective study. Researchers examined data from 95 critically ill COVID-19 patients hospitalized in Vancouver, Canada. They found that patients with blood groups A or AB were more likely to require mechanical ventilation, suggesting that they had greater rates of lung injury from COVID-19. They also found more patients with blood group A and AB required dialysis for kidney failure.


Together, these findings suggest that patients in these two blood groups may have an increased risk of organ dysfunction or failure due to COVID-19 than people with blood types O or B. Furthermore, while people with blood types A and AB did not have longer overall hospital stays than those with types O or B, they did remain in the intensive care unit (ICU) for a longer average time, which may also signal a greater COVID-19 severity level._

https://www.hematology.org/newsroom...possible-link-between-blood-type-and-covid-19


----------



## Sunny

I'm type A.  All the more reason to be glad I had the good sense to get vaccinated as early as possible!


----------



## Warrigal

Jeff_RN/Paramedic said:


> Some sources state that blood type can impact a person's ability to either contract or ward off a covid infection with O type blood making it harder to acquire a virus load sufficient to get a full on covid infection. In other words, they say type O shows more resiliency to the viral attack.
> But I've not done much research on it myself.


Curiosity got the best of me and I have found a report about a Canadian study that supports your statement about immune variability according to blood type.
Seems solid.

Type O blood linked to lower COVID risk, taking Vitamin D unlikely to help | Reuters


----------



## win231

Sunny said:


> I'm type A.  All the more reason to be glad I had the good sense to get vaccinated as early as possible!


And the education.


----------



## Alligatorob

gamboolman said:


> It is not right nor natural for a parent to bury a child.


No it is not.  Sorry for your loss.


----------



## Warrigal

Sunny said:


> I'm type A.  All the more reason to be glad I had the good sense to get vaccinated as early as possible!


I have finally received my second dose of AZ (3 months apart) and I would have lined up no matter what blood group I happened to be. I'm also type A (+). As a 70+ senior I was priority B1, after people more at risk like front line medics and people in nursing homes. My grandchildren are now eligible for vaccination but one has autoimmune issues. To lower her risk of Covid she has to isolate at home until the vaccination levels are close to 80%. Currently we are only at 50% either fully or partially immunised. She will be a shut in until at least Christmas at the rate the vax program is rolling out here.   

In US you have no idea just how fortunate you are. Send your unwanted vaccines to places like Fiji or PNG. They are desperate for vaccines and the needles needed to deliver it into arms.


----------



## suds00

a lot of very smart medical professionals believe that the vaccine,masks and social distancing are the only current ways to combat the virus and it's variants and this is mostly supported by statistics.this may change someday but we are dealing with now.if after careful consideration one thinks differently that is their right but it doesn.t mean it's a correct choice.the correct choice may not be known for years.


----------



## suds00

gary o-sorry for your loss


----------



## Sunny

Well, about the blood types, it seems it was much ado about nothing. This article pretty well debunks that theory. Of course, it's pretty old itself, going back to April, but I couldn't find anything more recent on the subject. So I guess the theory has just been thrown out.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210405/blood-type-doesnt-affect-your-covid-risk#1


----------



## Ladybj

We are responsible for the Delta virus.  We are responsible that they can't get the virus under control... WOW so much power.  Give me that power to increase my bank account..


----------



## Ladybj

Don M. said:


> It will be years before all the evidence surrounding this virus, and the effectiveness/long term effects of the vaccines are known.  That is Years that we May Not have.  The choice then boils down to either believing what is currently known by the professionals who study these things, or taking a chance and waiting for years....in which case, this virus could do a pretty good job of "population control".
> 
> Personally, since we are Not medical/scientific experts, we chose to get the Moderna vaccines earlier this year, and we are doing fine.


It is great that you guys are doing fine...others are not.  My hubby is making another dr appt. tomorrow.  One size does not fit all.  Just like all medications are not for everyone.


----------



## Shero

Come on people get your vaccinations. Although I love Australia, I want to get back to my beautiful island


----------



## Ladybj

Shero said:


> Come on people get your vaccinations. Although I love Australia, I want to get back to my beautiful island


If you are fully vaccinated and trust the vaccine - get back and enjoy your beautiful Island.


----------



## Shero

Ladybj said:


> If you are fully vaccinated and trust the vaccine - get back and enjoy your beautiful Island.


Due to restrictions in Australia it is not feasible right now.


----------



## Ladybj

Shero said:


> Due to restrictions in Australia it is not feasible right now.


Hopefully soon you will be able to go back.


----------



## Shero

May I just say, I understand some people for health reasons may be advised not to get the vaccine, that is fine. Some people may not want to get the vaccine for other reasons which makes no sense to me, that's fine too. 

Whatever the reason it makes no sense to downplay the importance of how crucial these vaccines are to coping with this pandemic. The science is sound, the advice is timely and the only way to get through it is to co-operate.


----------



## Chris P Bacon

@Shero


----------



## Ladybj

Shero said:


> May I just say, I understand some people for health reasons may be advised not to get the vaccine, that is fine. Some people may not want to get the vaccine for other reasons which makes no sense to me, that's fine too.
> 
> Whatever the reason it makes no sense to downplay the importance of how crucial these vaccines are to coping with this pandemic. The science is sound, the advice is timely and the only way to get through it is to co-operate.


How can it make sense to you if you don't know the reason?  My hubby is fully vaccinated and 4 months after he is losing weight.  He will be making another dr appt tomorrow.  Everyone does what is best for them but one size does not fit all.  There are soooo many people that did not do well with the vaccine but we don't hear of them on the local news, etc.


----------



## Shero

Chris P Bacon said:


> @Shero


 
merci pour le compliment mon ami


----------



## Shero

Ladybj said:


> How can it make sense to you if you don't know the reason?  My hubby is fully vaccinated and 4 months after he is losing weight.  He will be making another dr appt tomorrow.  Everyone does what is best for them but one size does not fit all.  There are soooo many people that did not do well with the vaccine but we don't hear of them on the local news, etc.


I do hope they find the reason your husband is losing weight Ladybj. Will you tell us the outcome


----------



## Brookswood

Perhaps they're thinking their state National Guard does not have enough to do. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...es-national-guard-to-combat-surge-in-covid-19

Idaho is calling out the National Guard to assist state hospitals overwhelmed by the influx of Covid sufferers.    Idaho has a full vaccination rate of only 39%, far too low to mount a strong barrier against the spread of the Delta variant.   Less than half have received even one dose.



> However, Little said Tuesday that “nearly all Idaho hospitals are overwhelmed with unvaccinated COVID-19 patients,” adding that only four adult ICU beds were currently available in the entire state.


----------



## win231

Ladybj said:


> If you are fully vaccinated and trust the vaccine - get back and enjoy your beautiful Island.


^^^^ BINGO.


----------



## win231

Shero said:


> Due to restrictions in Australia it is not feasible right now.


And your scapegoat is the unvaccinated.


----------



## win231

Shero said:


> Come on people get your vaccinations. Although I love Australia, I want to get back to my beautiful island


Amazing - Controllers always wear a Neon sign.


----------



## John cycling

Ladybj said:


> How can it make sense to you if you don't know the reason?



Because the vaccination corporations said so, that's why.


----------



## Warrigal

Brookswood said:


> Perhaps they're thinking their state National Guard does not have enough to do.
> 
> https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...es-national-guard-to-combat-surge-in-covid-19
> 
> Idaho is calling out the National Guard to assist state hospitals overwhelmed by the influx of Covid sufferers.    Idaho has a full vaccination rate of only 39%, far too low to mount a strong barrier against the spread of the Delta variant.   Less than half have received even one dose.


The army has been out and about in Sydney. They are not carrying weapons because their role is simply to assist the police who are visiting homes to make sure that people under orders to stay home are actually doing that and they are helping with traffic control at mass testing and mass vaccination sites. Some army doctors and nurses are helping with the vaccinations. They are assisting, not running the show.

 The most disconcerting thing has been the police helicopters overhead. It has scared the daylights out some of our migrant/refugee people who have been traumatised in foreign war zones but the community leaders have been great at getting out the message that there is nothing sinister going on.

We are looking at a further 6 weeks at the minimum before the lockdown is eased, let alone lifted entirely.


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## Ladybj

Shero said:


> I do hope they find the reason your husband is losing weight Ladybj. Will you tell us the outcome


Thank you.


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## suds00

the posters who holler about the vaccinated and their position love to make invalid comparison between covid 19 and diseases we have controlled through public health measures ;including vaccines and also comparing a new, potentially deadly disease,with non-medical daily life.


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## Chris P Bacon

Fact-checking Tomi Lahren on vaccines and COVID-19 survival chances ​Still unsure about what the facts are? Read and see for yourself instead of taking some armchair experts opinions.


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## Warrigal

Shero said:


> Come on people get your vaccinations. Although I love Australia, I want to get back to my beautiful island


Out of sheer curiosity, where are you now and where is your beautiful island?


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## Jules

Ladybj said:


> My hubby is fully vaccinated and 4 months after he is losing weight.


Just because he is losing weight, it doesn’t mean it was caused by the vaccine.  Medical problems have existed forever and will continue to do so.  

I do hope his doctor can help him.


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## DaveA

This is a first in my lifetime.  Our medical problems solved by political hacks.  Is it just coincidental that those spouting resistance to the vaccinations and classifying most medicine as "poisons", also tend to follow the same political path and leaders, while those still believing (rightly or wrongly)  in the medical/scientific world tend to follow the opposing political path?

Not something that I or my family have had to deal with in times past.


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## RadishRose

@Ladybj why did you ask about your husband's weight loss in a covid vaccine thread?


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## Brookswood

Since this is a senior forum this recent study from England of people over the age of 50 shows how effective the vaccines are:

Non vaccinated people are 11x more likely to end up in the hospital with Covid.
Non vaccinated people are 8x more likely to die.


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