# California Nordstrom ransacked by a gang of 80 with 25 cars



## WhatInThe (Nov 21, 2021)

A California Nordstrom ransacked in less than a minute or two by a gang of 80 with 25 cars.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-walnut-creek-nordstrom-targeted-80-looters-insane

At least 2 employees assaulted, theives used crowbars to smash things. At least 2 arrest. One suspect had a gun. A near by restaraunt had to lock it's doors once they realized what was going on for safety


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## RadishRose (Nov 21, 2021)

This absolutely sickens me. There are no words to describe my disgust.. each time this looting and madness occurs I get one more step closer to hate.

There is no excuse for this behavior, none!


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## Gaer (Nov 21, 2021)

Who WAS the gang?  Was this BLM?  Students?  Who?


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## RadishRose (Nov 21, 2021)

No one is saying. I think it's just shoplifting en masse.

It's been happening quite a bit lately. They walk out with large screen TV's; anything- because they're greedy and because they can.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 21, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Who WAS the gang?  Was this BLM?  Students?  Who?


I think were starting to see copycats since these 'raids' of retail stores have been around for a while. My guess some actual gangs want in on some of this action. Hence one of the apprehended suspects having a gun.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 21, 2021)

Stuff like raids will wind up affecting everyone especially those in the area.

San Francisco now going to limit cars near the Louis Vuitton store that was robbed a few days ago in a similar fashion.

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/arti...uare-16639319.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

If one watches some of the video of the Nordstrom job online a 25 car surge near one building can also cause traffic nightmares. Looking at one vid and traffic was so heavy at that time I surprised many got away.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Who WAS the gang?  Was this BLM?  Students?  Who?


Just thieves. They usually take the loot across state lines and sell it to criminal organizations (known as Boosters here in Calif; people who sell stolen property on a large scale).


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Just thieves. They usually take the loot across state lines and sell it to criminal organizations (known as Boosters here in Calif; people who sell stolen property on a large scale).


And, btw, people who buy stuff from a Booster know full well they're buying stolen property, and I think they should be prosecuted to the maximum allowed, too.


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## David777 (Nov 21, 2021)

Probably some of the same group from this last week:

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/11/16/armed-smash-and-grab-robbers-hit-concord-jewelry-store/

These type of incidents could be slowed down if Alameda County allowed more license plate readers.  Any time cities do such, civil rights mobs of lawyers shows and floods their local media with news stories like everyone is against whatever despite public opinion being for such.  In almost all of these cases, stolen vehicles or vehicles with stolen plates are being used that drive in from Oakland, Richmond, and Antioch.  Each day many drive right over the Bay Bridge into San Francisco to prowl streets looking to smash and grab break in cars. If stolen vehicles or plates were read, it would discourage even doing so.  In SF, the DA, is now set for a June election recall, because he lets most right out without jail and if a case does go to court, perpetrators are deemed too poor to be fined.


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## jerry old (Nov 21, 2021)

See my signature below:


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## fuzzybuddy (Nov 21, 2021)

Let's face it. It is an easy way to rob a store.  These are well organized invasions. There's very little likelihood that you'll be caught. And even if you do, shop lifting carries mostly a fine, and little jail time. The stores are easy pickings. The stores don't have the security, nor personnel to stop an invasion. You're not going to have the Feds after you, like robbing a bank. It's local cops, who will get there after you're long gone. Quite frankly, I don't know how you can prevent it.


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## AnnieA (Nov 21, 2021)

@JimBob1952 , @Nathan ...surely you have other boards on which to discuss politics.  Now you've created busy work for Matrix who is kind enough to host this board, has a no politics rule and your behavior will likely get the thread closed.  Great job, guys.


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## AnnieA (Nov 21, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> A California Nordstrom ransacked in less than a minute or two by a gang of 80 with 25 cars.
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-walnut-creek-nordstrom-targeted-80-looters-insane
> 
> At least 2 employees assaulted, theives used crowbars to smash things. At least 2 arrest. One suspect had a gun. A near by restaraunt had to lock it's doors once they realized what was going on for safety



Definite escalation in San Francisco's gang shoplifting.   The more news coverage, the more scumbags will get the idea to try it.  There is a very low chance they'll face consequences.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 21, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> @JimBob1952 , @Nathan ...surely you have other boards on which to discuss politics.  Now you've created busy work for Matrix who is kind enough to host this board, has a no politics rule and your behavior will likely get the thread closed.  Great job, guys.



If that's "politics" so be it.  No further comment.


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## Nathan (Nov 22, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> @JimBob1952 , @Nathan ...surely you have other boards on which to discuss politics.  Now you've created busy work for Matrix who is kind enough to host this board, has a no politics rule and your behavior will likely get the thread closed.  Great job, guys.


Life borders on politics in many little ways, apparently "someone" was motivated to complain, hence the busy work for Matrix.


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## Lewkat (Nov 22, 2021)

Guess I missed it, I see no discussion of politics at all.  Just talk about a bunch of thugs being savages.  
Perhaps we'll need check ins ala airports to get into stores next.


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## Don M. (Nov 22, 2021)

The lawlessness in many of our cities is becoming ridiculous.  Murders and robberies are up in all our states cities...St. Louis being the worst, and even a nice medium sized city, Columbia. MO., is having reports of shootings every day or two.  Couple that with the "complaints" against the police, and things will likely get even worse.  Most of the gun violence takes place between the street and drug gangs, but an increasing number of innocent bystanders are becoming victims of this stupidity.  

Attacks on the stores, and shoplifting just increases the prices the rest of us ultimately have to pay....as the stores and insurance companies recoup their losses.


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## Tish (Nov 22, 2021)

Wow, that is horrible.


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## David777 (Nov 22, 2021)

Oakland police chief in news conference detailing much more ongoing organized gangs crimes that are increasingly using guns:

https://abc7news.com/sf-looting-uni...o-louis-vuitton-looted-walnut-creek/11262390/


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## AnnieA (Nov 22, 2021)

Link to timeline for this week:  https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/11/22/smash-grab-robbery-looting-spree-bay-area-timeline/


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## AnnieA (Nov 22, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Quite frankly, I don't know how you can prevent it.



Businesses can and are leaving.  At this rate, SF is headed for ghost town status.


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## Jules (Nov 22, 2021)

High end stores might be keeping their doors locked and only permitting entry to limited people.  We have this happening in some high end  jewellery stores after brazen thefts.


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## hollydolly (Nov 22, 2021)

if anything is going to kill Bricks and mortar stores and hand everything over to online shopping...it''s going to be this . Absolutely diabolical...!! As of yet we've not had that here, and I hope never but usually what happens there soon gets copied everywhere..


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## Been There (Nov 22, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Businesses can and are leaving.  At this rate, SF is headed for ghost town status.


Maybe it will bring down the cost of real estate.


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## Don M. (Nov 22, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Businesses can and are leaving.  At this rate, SF is headed for ghost town status.


It's not only the businesses leaving.  I have a cousin/family who lived in the Bay Area for decades.  When they retired, they could barely wait to exit that area.  They moved to Loveland, Colorado, a few miles North of Denver, and say that living there is paradise compared to what the SF area had become.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 23, 2021)

Copy cats or same gang hit a Los Angeles Nordstrom yesterday.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-20-people-raiding-Nordstrom-store-Grove.html

Smaller raid only 20 involved in this one. The governor of California said he'll step in/crackdown. And around the time all this is happening a CVS was hit for $8500 in cash.

Many are blaming the high dollar amount to be arrested for theft which is $950


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## ohioboy (Nov 23, 2021)

$950 is just the felony amount. If a persons aggregate total thefts in a year is $950, that enhances it to the felony level. Plus you can bet CA will charge those arrested with conspiracy/complicity to commit felony theft by grand totals of everything stolen or some type of gang conduct statute, etc.

If employees were assaulted, that also would up the charge to robbery etc.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 23, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> $950 is just the felony amount. If a persons aggregate total thefts in a year is $950, that enhances it to the felony level. Plus you can bet CA will charge those arrested with conspiracy/complicity to commit felony theft by grand totals of everything stolen or some type of gang conduct statute, etc.
> 
> If employees were assaulted, that also would up the charge to robbery etc.



Yes, but in practice, shoplifters stealing less than $950 are rarely arrested, much less prosecuted.  And now they're not even being reported.  Store chains say San Francisco shoplifting rates are five times the national average.  

And, in case this thread is being monitored, this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with politics.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 25, 2021)

Another similar robber last night. A gang rushed a Canoga Park Nordstrom security guard and employees including spraying them then grabbed $25K in high end handbags.

https://nypost.com/2021/11/25/california-thieves-steal-25000-in-goods-mace-security/

The increasing amount and use of violence is the issue that neads attention. These criminals aren't stealing for a loaf of bread(does anyone steal a loaf of bread now a days?) Also reports of of theft gang leaders are paying these looters $500-1000 per 'job'.


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## Purwell (Nov 25, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> if anything is going to kill Bricks and mortar stores and hand everything over to online shopping...it''s going to be this . Absolutely diabolical...!! As of yet we've not had that here, and I hope never but usually what happens there soon gets copied everywhere..


I have heard of similar occurrences in the UK involving travellers, not to the same scale but even in our small town there was an invasion a couple of years ago that almost got out of control.

I have a friend who works at a Beefeater restaurant in Stevenage and she tells me that they do get parties of travellers sometimes descend on them and then refuse to pay for their food.


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## John cycling (Nov 25, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> The increasing amount and use of violence is the issue that neads attention. These criminals aren't stealing for a loaf of bread(does anyone steal a loaf of bread now a days?) Also reports of of theft gang leaders are paying these looters $500-1000 per 'job'.



With all the mandates these past two years and the many families that have lost their livelihood because of them, perhaps these types of jobs are becoming more common out of desperation and necessity.  Although quite unfortunate, these incidents in particular seem to be part of a logical progression from the overbearing draconian mandates and oppression that are continuing to be forced on society.


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## feywon (Nov 25, 2021)

David777 said:


> Probably some of the same group from this last week:
> 
> https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/11/16/armed-smash-and-grab-robbers-hit-concord-jewelry-store/
> 
> These type of incidents could be slowed down if Alameda County allowed more license plate readers.  Any time cities do such, civil rights mobs of lawyers shows and floods their local media with news stories like everyone is against whatever despite public opinion being for such.  In almost all of these cases, stolen vehicles or vehicles with stolen plates are being used that drive in from Oakland, Richmond, and Antioch.  Each day many drive right over the Bay Bridge into San Francisco to prowl streets looking to smash and grab break in cars. If stolen vehicles or plates were read, it would discourage even doing so.  In SF, the DA, is now set for a June election recall, because he lets most right out without jail and if a case does go to court, perpetrators are deemed too poor to be fined.


i've been sort of following the story about the SF DA. Seems he goes real light on Domestic Violence perps too.  Meantime he and his supporters keep saying he's going to reduce crime in his jurisdiction but i haven't heard any specifics of how.


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## feywon (Nov 25, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> @JimBob1952 , @Nathan ...surely you have other boards on which to discuss politics.  Now you've created busy work for Matrix who is kind enough to host this board, has a no politics rule and your behavior will likely get the thread closed.  Great job, guys.


i'm confused, don't see anything by either of those members preceding this comment on this thread, i could have missed or could they have been removed?  Tho i recall a civil exchange between them about voter suppression on another thread.  Which did get closed, but like because of some less civil comments by others, and Matrix nipped in the bud by closing.


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## feywon (Nov 25, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> if anything is going to kill Bricks and mortar stores and hand everything over to online shopping...it''s going to be this . Absolutely diabolical...!! As of yet we've not had that here, and I hope never but usually what happens there soon gets copied everywhere..


If one lives in an area where this is common, the stores start closing so people are ordering online more they need to be sure they take steps to ensure package delivery.  Suspect in suburban areas the sales of 'Ring' cameras/apps will increase, and they are a good idea. 

i live a small rural town--no home delivery by US Post Office  we have to have PO Boxes for most mail.  Certain items will be sent Fed Ex/UPS to physical address and most of us have at least 1 large dog which tend to discourage trouble makers.  But most packages will go thru Post Office--both the private carriers will  drop packages off at US Post Office and even if PO Box # not on package because we're a small town the workers usually don't even have look us up on their computers---but know which box is ours.


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## Jace (Nov 25, 2021)

Horrific!


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## hollydolly (Nov 25, 2021)

feywon said:


> If one lives in an area where this is common, the stores start closing so people are ordering online more they need to be sure they take steps to ensure package delivery.  Suspect in suburban areas the sales of 'Ring' cameras/apps will increase, and they are a good idea.
> 
> i live a small rural town--no home delivery by US Post Office  we have to have PO Boxes for most mail.  Certain items will be sent Fed Ex/UPS to physical address and most of us have at least 1 large dog which tend to discourage trouble makers.  But most packages will go thru Post Office--both the private carriers will  drop packages off at US Post Office and even if PO Box # not on package because we're a small town the workers usually don't even have look us up on their computers---but know which box is ours.


I too live on the edge of a small rural town, and although most all of our stores are still in business ( albeit we have lost a lot)  more and more people since the onset of C-19 are shopping online.  We have the Ring Video doorbell. .. and although crime here is very low,  last Christmas we had a box of wine delivered  from business associates of my husband who sends it as a gift every year ,  but this time we'd had no notice it was coming and were not home ,  and the delivery company in their infinite wisdom left it on the doorstep in full view of the road ( here in the Uk unlike many other countries, delivery drivers are supposed to knock and wait for an answer before leaving the parcel or deliver another day) .. and despite the doorbell being in full view right in the middle of the door , a thief stole the box  of wine .

Well regardless of the right and wrongs of the wine merchants leaving it there,  we reported it to the police and were surprised and delighted when they knew exactly who this thief was and actually arrested him, ... and just approx 3 months later we learned his name when he was taken to court and fined and ordered to pay restitution..which by the by we haven't received nor expect to see, but with the evidence of the video the company provided another box of wine too.., so without that Video doorbell we would have  had no evidence a crime had taken place, and it proves that these things  will be needed more and more as we shop more and more from home..


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## RadishRose (Nov 25, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I too live on the edge of a small rural town, and although most all of our stores are still in business ( albeit we have lost a lot)  more and more people since the onset of C-19 are shopping online.  We have the Ring Video doorbell. .. and although crime here is very low,  last Christmas we had a box of wine delivered  from business associates of my husband who sends it as a gift every year ,  but this time we'd had no notice it was coming and were not home ,  and the delivery company in their infinite wisdom left it on the doorstep in full view of the road ( here in the Uk unlike many other countries, delivery drivers are supposed to knock and wait for an answer before leaving the parcel or deliver another day) .. and despite the doorbell being in full view right in the middle of the door , a thief stole the box  of wine .
> 
> Well regardless of the right and wrongs of the wine merchants leaving it there,  we reported it to the police and were surprised and delighted when they knew exactly who this thief was and actually arrested him, ... and just approx 3 months later we learned his name when he was taken to court and fined and ordered to pay restitution..which by the by we haven't received nor expect to see, but with the evidence of the video the company provided another box of wine too.., so without that Video doorbell we would have  had no evidence a crime had taken place, and it proves that these things  will be needed more and more as we shop more and more from home..


I remember that!


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## hollydolly (Nov 25, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> I remember that!


Last Christmas....


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## RadishRose (Nov 25, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Last Christmas....


Yep!


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## hollydolly (Nov 25, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> Yep!


lol... I wasn't asking..., I was just saying it was this time last year basically...


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## fmdog44 (Nov 25, 2021)

Recall states declaring some crimes to be ignored by the authorities. We see people calmly walking out of stores carrying what they want and no one can touch them as employees are instructed to leave them alone.


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## Remy (Nov 25, 2021)

This has got to end. Not that I have the answer.


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## Jules (Nov 25, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Recall states declaring some crimes to be ignored by the authorities. We see people calmly walking out of stores carrying what they want and no one can touch them as employees are instructed to leave them alone.


It’s the same here.  Do not touch the thief.  I watched in a grocery store as two male shoppers try to stop a shoplifter as management was yelling not to touch him.  Lawsuits.  BTW, the shoppers did stop him and he was yelling that he didn’t do anything.


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## dseag2 (Nov 26, 2021)

John cycling said:


> With all the mandates these past two years and the many families that have lost their livelihood because of them, perhaps these types of jobs are becoming more common out of desperation and necessity.  Although quite unfortunate, these incidents in particular seem to be part of a logical progression from the overbearing draconian mandates and oppression that are continuing to be forced on society.


Deleted.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 27, 2021)

Los Angeles area Home Depot hit and had the tools used in smash and grab robberies stolen.

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/sm...from-lakewood-home-depot-sheriffs-department/

Soon to buy a hammer will require ID like buying cigerettes or something. And they'll wind up keeping them locked up and will have to wait for someone to unlock a door. Oh goody.


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## StarSong (Nov 27, 2021)

Jules said:


> It’s the same here.  Do not touch the thief.  I watched in a grocery store as two male shoppers try to stop a shoplifter as management was yelling not to touch him.  Lawsuits.  BTW, the shoppers did stop him and he was yelling that he didn’t do anything.


The sad truth is that every shopper pays extra for retail goods to cover "inventory shrinkage" due to shoplifters, internal thieving and damages.   

That said, the mobs described in this thread aren't shoplifting - they're participating in organized crime. I'd guess CA and other states will swiftly pass legislation to reclassify these actions from simple shoplifting misdemeanors to organized criminal felonies, with stiff sentencing guidelines.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 27, 2021)

It's spreading. A Best Buy in Minnesota hit by a gang of 20-30.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021...rs-swarm-burnsville-best-buy-on-black-friday/

These criminals have to realize that not every state has the theft/retail theft laws that California has and caught with much less could mean some unanticipated consequences. I don't know maybe Minnesota is like California.


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## AnnieA (Nov 27, 2021)

StarSong said:


> ... I'd guess CA and other states will swiftly pass legislation to reclassify these actions from simple shoplifting misdemeanors to organized criminal felonies, with stiff sentencing guidelines.



That will only work if the criminal justice system stops no bail "catch and release" and actually does process and sentence.  That's not happening in many places for violent crimes, much less theft.


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## David777 (Nov 27, 2021)

A key issue with stopping large groups of looters is how to physically stop a looter without killing or seriously physically harming any.  Decades ago, that was not an issue as thieves were shot as anyone watching old movies can readily watch.  Those were also the days when police would yell at fleeing criminals to stop and if they did not, were shot at.  Although younger generations may find it hard to believe society allowed such, it was just the tip of the iceberg of a long list of allowed cultural behaviors considered normal.  Remember those westerns where a posy would encounter a gang of bad hombres and a horse riding sequence would follow with guns blazing as one bandit at a time was picked off.

So what could larger retailers do without maiming looters?  One idea would be to spray them with water soluable red paint.  The same stuff used at paintball courts but would not to use paintball guns but rather powerful squirt guns.  So retailers could have automatic paint squirt guns set up at entrance doors.  Once looting began and a store employee actuated their system that would also actuate a loud recorded voice warning customers to not go through doors lest paint spray.  All doors would spray red paint at anyone that passed through.  It would then not be able to turn off until police arrived and did so.  That means a foolish customer that decided to leave despite the vocal warning would also be sprayed, their own fault.  Although such paint sprayed clothing can be washed, I'd expect that may be difficult with types of white fabrics of clothing.  Little legal matter if forewarned.

So a gang of looters goes into some Apple Store in a mall with say 20 customers already inside.  Use hammers to  break cases and dikes to cut cables.  Run through entrance doors and get sprayed some with red paint including their head and hair.  As they continue running out of that mall, paint dripping, everyone that sees them knows exactly what the red is.  People look at them, some scream.  Out on the streets, every one of them leaving can be visually tracked to their vehicles that the parking lot security can then identify vehicle license plates of, stolen or not plus vehicle type/color, to immediately provide to police.  Someone might wonder if looters might then take hostages or threaten with harm customers?  Unlikely for the level of products targeted unless it was expensive jewelry.   Someone else might wonder if the looters used rain coats or plastic sheets they might then abandon after being sprayed?  Not likely they could walk down a street sidewalk and enter a store or mall without being obvious.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 27, 2021)

Problem so many retailers are afraid of being sued they don't allow their own security to anything physical to a suspect including pursue. Most follow the perp into the parking lot and get a license if that. Calling the police asap is the best they can do.

Also keep in mind once these thieves start assaulting people all bets are off because individual have a right to defend themselves and/or others. These crimes are escalating in frequency and aggressive behavior. This will not end well for victim or those poor little perps.


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## Purwell (Nov 28, 2021)

David777 said:


> Use hammers to break cases and dikes to cut cables.


Sorry, but what's a dike?
I'm from the UK.


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## StarSong (Nov 28, 2021)

Purwell said:


> Sorry, but what's a dike?
> I'm from the UK.


It's a type of wire cutter.


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## Purwell (Nov 28, 2021)

StarSong said:


> It's a type of wire cutter.
> View attachment 196442


Thank you.
It's got a very different meaning in the UK!


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## StarSong (Nov 28, 2021)

Purwell said:


> Thank you.
> It's got a very different meaning in the UK!


It's not a commonly used term here either.  I'd never heard it before and had to look it up.  Most people just call them wire cutters.


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## jujube (Nov 28, 2021)

There was an apocryphal story going around a few years ago about a thief who grabbed something at Home Depot and ran out the door.

On his way out, he crashed into one of the Marines who were out there collecting for Toys for Tots, knocking both of them to the ground.

According to the rest of the story, as the perp was being helped up by the other Marines, he stumbled over the curb and sustained a concussion, a broken arm, a broken knee, and serious bruising of his boy parts.

Dangerous things, those curbs...... And those Marines....

As I said, it's apocryphal, but I do like a good story, I do.....


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## David777 (Nov 30, 2021)

How police organizations have now begun to work with Internet media trying to turn the tide against unreasonably protecting criminals.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-unions-blame-aclu-rash-180048831.html

https://aclu-watch.com/


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## dseag2 (Nov 30, 2021)

John cycling said:


> With all the mandates these past two years and the many families that have lost their livelihood because of them, perhaps these types of jobs are becoming more common out of desperation and necessity.  Although quite unfortunate, these incidents in particular seem to be part of a logical progression from the overbearing draconian mandates and oppression that are continuing to be forced on society.


You really think these robberies are "jobs"?


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## DGM (Dec 2, 2021)

On Black Friday a LA Home Depot store was targeted.  What did they take?  Hammers, mallets and sledge hammers.  I don't think they'll be used on construction projects.


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## Jeni (Dec 2, 2021)

just like any other crime ..... target the end piece....
even the looting last summer people running in grabbing items ...They sell them. 
While some might be just on the street pop up shops many of these things are on things like ......Facebook marketplace..... resale through Amazon or EBAY or the many resell sites.

Why not hold facebook or others  liable for trafficking stolen goods.   
Like another poster said people getting stuff at 75% off from the backseat of a car or something even online KNOW there is a catch ( stolen).

When looting .......how in less the 60 seconds found the jacket/ jeans etc in their size???  LOL   
 it takes me a bit to look through to find mine


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## AnnieA (Dec 2, 2021)

Boarded windows instead of Christmas decorations on SF's Union Square.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/There-s-nothing-festive-about-boarded-up-16664219.php


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## WhatInThe (Dec 2, 2021)

This method of criminal theft has spread to the east coast with a Philadelphia area store/Ulta hit by 5 theives rushed in and out taking 20,000 dollars of stuff in 40 seconds. Not as violent but these are gateway entry level criminals.

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/le...ects-in-lehigh-valley-beauty-store-heist.html

This was different than the west coast in they took beauty products instead of electronics or high end stuff/clothes.


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## David777 (Dec 2, 2021)

Since politicians do not want to put thieves in jail, the public doesn't want to build more expensive prisons supported by expensive correctional officers, and judges don't want to fine them as most declare whether true or not they have no money or assets, it is time for something I've been suggesting for decades.

Corporal punishment from A to Z was condemned decades ago for a long list of reasons, the chief of which was there were too many in charge that abused inmates. The world is not the same today and oversight can be far more transparent.  Today in many states, prisoners have gained so many rights that some actually purposely allow being caught so they can have medical issues taken care of for free.  Additional for some criminal elements, it is a way to descend deeper in criminal worlds.

What I am suggesting here is not taking away such rights or giving them physical pain but rather something simply a bit unpleasant.  And this would not apply to those sentenced into prison for many years but rather just those say serving less than 3 years.  Three obvious forms would be being housed in facilities a wee warm say at 78F degrees, being served healthy though boring food, and having a few hours of ethical and moral audio lectures pumped into their cells from speakers. Conditions many would not be so happy to return to.


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## oldmontana (Dec 2, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> A California Nordstrom ransacked in less than a minute or two by a gang of 80 with 25 cars.
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-walnut-creek-nordstrom-targeted-80-looters-insane
> 
> At least 2 employees assaulted, theives used crowbars to smash things. At least 2 arrest. One suspect had a gun. A near by restaraunt had to lock it's doors once they realized what was going on for safety


I say it started with looting in cities like Minneapolis were looters empied stores.


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## Purwell (Dec 3, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> This method of criminal theft has spread to the east coast with a Philadelphia area store/Ulta hit by 5 theives rushed in and out taking 20,000 dollars of stuff in 40 seconds. Not as violent but these are gateway entry level criminals.
> 
> https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/le...ects-in-lehigh-valley-beauty-store-heist.html
> 
> This was different than the west coast in they took beauty products instead of electronics or high end stuff/clothes.


$20 000!! That's a hell of a lot of make up, or an insurance hype.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 3, 2021)

Purwell said:


> $20 000!! That's a hell of a lot of make up, or an insurance hype.



Someone I know -- someone in fact to whom I've been married for 35 years -- finds little jars of face cream at fancy stores that cost close to $200.  It would be easy to grab $20,000 worth of that kind of stuff.  

I use Lubriderm, it costs about $3.00 for a squeeze container.


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## Sliverfox (Dec 3, 2021)

Its not only retail stores that are being hit.
Auto makers have  thousands of vehicles sitting in storage lots waiting  for computer / chips
Enterprising  thieves are using drones to select  certain vehicles.
Break down the  fence &  quickly take  what ones  they picked out.


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## WhatInThe (Dec 3, 2021)

Police in Los Angeles made 14 arrests related to recent mass lootings. But they all were let go.

https://www.latimes.com/california/...announces-14-arrests-smash-and-grab-robberies

They 'say' they were released due to zero bail policies enacted a year ago to lower populations in jail during the virus.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 3, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Who WAS the gang?  Was this BLM?  Students?  Who?


Why would you assume this has anything to do with Black Lives Matter? This is gang activity and they need to be caught and punished as harshly as the law will allow.
@WhatInThe ...that they were let go is crazy! The whole thing is crazy!!


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## WhatInThe (Dec 3, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> ......
> @WhatInThe ...that they were let go is crazy! The whole thing is crazy!!


Absolutely. This is organized planned theft even if something pops up on social media at the last minute. It's not about shoplifters or a few dollars under the felony charge threshold. These are criminals planning and executing their plans in an aggressive/violent manner and selling the stolen merchandise for profit.


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## rgp (Dec 3, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Why would you assume this has anything to do with Black Lives Matter? This is gang activity and they need to be caught and punished as harshly as the law will allow.
> @WhatInThe ...that they were let go is crazy! The whole thing is crazy!!



 "Why would you assume this has anything to do with Black Lives Matter? "

 Perhaps because their mantra / chant is ......."what do we want ? dead cops ..... when do we want it ? .... now"

 Or the other one ......... "Pigs in a blanket, fry'em up like bacon"

 I'd say the BLM is capable of about anything.


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## rgp (Dec 3, 2021)

StarSong said:


> It's not a commonly used term here either.  I'd never heard it before and had to look it up.  Most people just call them wire cutters.



 They are called "dikes" or "dykes" because they cut on a diagonal plane / angle ....


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## David777 (Dec 4, 2021)

Small dikes aka diagonal cutters, are heavily used tools in electronic hardware industries for cutting component leads and wire.


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## Purwell (Dec 4, 2021)

Called side cutters in the UK.


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## WhatInThe (Dec 4, 2021)

Pot dispenseries in California have been are being hit in a similar fashion on a smaller but costly scale.

https://abc7news.com/oakland-thefts-cannabis-dispensaries-police/11282132/

Wonder if the thieves will sell or use it?


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## Geezer Garage (Dec 4, 2021)

Sad to see. This is why I live in the middle of nowhere, among other reasons. Mike


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## Don M. (Dec 4, 2021)

Our criminal justice system is heavily biased in favor of the criminals.  They have "rights", while their victims have little recourse but to suffer.  
A few years ago, there was a sheriff in Arizona...sheriff Arpaio...who housed prisoners in tents, and made them wear pink pajamas.  They had few privilege's, and their jail time was No picnic.  His tactics resulted in very few Repeat Offenders.


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## StarSong (Dec 5, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Our criminal justice system is heavily biased in favor of the criminals.  They have "rights", while their victims have little recourse but to suffer.
> A few years ago, there was a sheriff in Arizona...*sheriff Arpaio...*who housed prisoners in tents, and made them wear pink pajamas.  They had few privilege's, and their jail time was No picnic.  His tactics resulted in very few Repeat Offenders.


He was also well known for racial profiling and other shenanigans.  
https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/10...aio-cost-arizona-taxpayers-about-100-million/


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 6, 2021)

You all will be happy to know that this is not a problem.  Our good friend AOC says nothing like this has ever happened.


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## Pepper (Dec 6, 2021)

Don M. said:


> A few years ago, there was a sheriff in Arizona...sheriff Arpaio...who housed prisoners in tents, and made them wear pink pajamas.  They had few privilege's, and their jail time was No picnic.  His tactics resulted in very few Repeat Offenders.


His tactics resulted in a jail sentence.  He was one of the first pardoned by the former president.


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## Gary O' (Dec 6, 2021)

California Nordstrom ransacked by a gang of 80 with 25 cars​
Two words;

rubber bullets

I have more words but choose not to type them


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 6, 2021)

Arresting the perpetrators, making them post appropriate bail, and charging them as felons would seem to be the right responses.  Not gonna happen anytime soon in California.


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## WhatInThe (Dec 18, 2021)

4th Suspect arrested for the Nordstrom robbery. Charged with felonies

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2...-suspect-in-nordstrom-smash-and-grab-robbery/


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## rgp (Dec 19, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> California Nordstrom ransacked by a gang of 80 with 25 cars​
> Two words;
> 
> rubber bullets
> ...



 I prefer real bullets ......


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## rgp (Dec 19, 2021)

StarSong said:


> He was also well known for racial profiling and other shenanigans.
> https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/10...aio-cost-arizona-taxpayers-about-100-million/



 Best sheriff ever !


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## IFortuna (Dec 21, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Let's face it. It is an easy way to rob a store.  These are well organized invasions. There's very little likelihood that you'll be caught. And even if you do, shop lifting carries mostly a fine, and little jail time. The stores are easy pickings. The stores don't have the security, nor personnel to stop an invasion. You're not going to have the Feds after you, like robbing a bank. It's local cops, who will get there after you're long gone. Quite frankly, I don't know how you can prevent it.


Unfortunately for these criminals, this is not just a matter of shoplifting.  Other charges may be applied such as armed robbery, grand theft,  destruction of property, trespassing, menacing and I am sure others that I am not aware of.  With cameras, I hope at least some get caught.  Very disturbing. They may close that shopping center for good.


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## ohioboy (Dec 21, 2021)

IFortuna said:


> Unfortunately for these criminals, this is not just a matter of shoplifting.  Other charges may be applied such as armed robbery, grand theft,  destruction of property, trespassing, menacing and I am sure others that I am not aware of.  With cameras, I hope at least some get caught.  Very disturbing. They may close that shopping center for good.


That were not just charged with simple theft, but felony companion crimes.


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## AnnieA (Dec 21, 2021)

I think prisoners should work ...Not!!! chain gains in fields but manufacturing.  We have a dearth of manufacturing in the US and could set up a system of factories at prisons to reduce--at least in part-- issues such as reliance on shipping containers stuck in ports,  After a person has put in enough hours to pay for the cost of their incarceration for the year, then violent offenders not eligible for parole earn commissary credits etc,  Exemplary workers eligible for parole might earn early consideration by the parole board.  With today's surveillance tech, it would be easy peasy to ensure prisoners aren't exploited on the job.


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## StarSong (Dec 21, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> I think prisoners should work ...Not!!! chain gains in fields but manufacturing.  We have a dearth of manufacturing in the US and could set up a system of factories at prisons to reduce--at least in part-- issues such as reliance on shipping containers stuck in ports,  After a person has put in enough hours to pay for the cost of their incarceration for the year, then violent offenders not eligible parole for earn commissary credits etc,  Exemplary workers eligible for parole might earn early consideration by the parole board.  With today's surveillance tech, it would be easy peasy to ensure prisoners aren't exploited on the job.


I don't know if this is a helpful solution or not.  My opinion - we should be looking carefully at countries with very low rates of recidivism and adapt and imitate as many of those approaches as possible.  Also would make for-profit prisons illegal.  No person or corporations should be able to benefit financially or have a vested interest in increased incarcerations.       

The US prison system is badly broken - as is true for many countries.


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## AnnieA (Dec 21, 2021)

StarSong said:


> I don't know if this is a helpful solution or not.  My opinion - we should be looking carefully at countries with very low rates of recidivism and adapt and imitate as many of those approaches as possible.  Also would make for-profit prisons illegal.  No person or corporations should be able to benefit financially or have a vested interest in increased incarcerations.
> 
> The US prison system is badly broken - as is true for many countries.



One thing we've done wrong for years is put non-violent criminals in with violent.  That endangers them and they have to develop violent coping skills for protection.  And do not get me started on the abysmal "War on Drugs"   which has resulted in incarceration of people who need rehab, not prison sentences.  If they refuse or fail rehab, sentence to community service.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

> California Nordstrom ransacked by a gang of 80 with 25 cars​





Where were the cops?  Off on an extended coffee break?  Jus' asking ...


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## ohioboy (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Where were the cops?  Off on an extended coffee break?  Jus' asking ...


Since the thugs were in and out within 3 minutes...figure the rest.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Since the thugs were in and out within 3 minutes...figure the rest.




With all those cars and surveillance cameras they should have no trouble tracing the hoods and solving the case.  That is unless the hoods were actually cops  in disguise.


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## ohioboy (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> With all those cars and surveillance cameras they should have no trouble tracing the hoods and solving the case.  That is unless the hoods were actually cops  in disguise.


That is post crime concern, not an on scene prevention/apprehension.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> That is post crime concern, not an on scene prevention/apprehension.




So far as I know that was a very wealthy area so that people can readily afford to pay for a police force that stays on the job.  Why they would be away in the middle of the day is beyond me.


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## ohioboy (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> So far as I know that was a very wealthy area so that people can readily afford to pay for a police force that stays on the job.  Why they would be away in the middle of the day is beyond me.


What is the average response time in your city for such theft calls?


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> What is the average response time in your city for such theft calls?




What response time?  Cops never allow anyone to interfere with their extended coffee breaks.

At one time our building's manager instructed me to call the cops whenever a neighbor made noises. One day I  did so in response to his instructions.  When I did the SOB cop came (without any name tag) and gave me a lecture on how he does not have the time to respond to any form of pettiness like that.  Now just imagine how I felt after that extended lecture - how would you feel? SOB cop should have been fired for that crap. Eventually the neighbor was forced to move.


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