# What do women really want?



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

_What do women really want?..........

.....an oft asked question!

*Here is one view:





*_


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 27, 2020)

I, for one, object to being “handled” at all. It is a paternalistic term, and condescending.


----------



## Pinky (Oct 27, 2020)

Honesty and Sincerity.
It goes without saying - respect.


----------



## officerripley (Oct 27, 2020)

I want the same amount of power/equality/rights that men have. I want to be thought of first as a human and not "just a woman."


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

How many of us, regardless of gender REALLY know what we want?  That seems to be one of life's big questions: What the heck am I doing here, and what do I want? 

Ahhh, the eternal question of life's purpose.

As Shalimar pointed out, about being "handled", I think is just not something any human being appreciates regardless of who is trying to pull that stunt.  I doubt that either gender wants this kind of treatment.  I have never understood why we can't all take each other at "face value" and accept each other as we are without the "handling", gaming, trying to control, etc.  Treat others as we ourselves want to be treated.  Life would be far simpler.

Tony


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

Instead of "handle" read "manage", although it may not scan so well in the song, so whoever wrote it used a word to mean the same thing, (he /she didn't mean physically handle did they).

Anyone taking objection to the word probably meant quite innocently has fallen into a bit of a trap though, because if you listened to Bryn Terfel singing you'll know the last line is, " How to handle a woman, is to love her, simply love her",(and who doesn't want that, man or woman?).     .


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

officerripley said:


> I want the same amount of power/equality/rights that men have. I want to be thought of first as a human and not "just a woman."


What if women are superior?

And its us men who are "just men", (foolish men at that most of us perhaps?).


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

Pinky said:


> Honesty and Sincerity.
> It goes without saying - respect.


"Not love too, (I'm sure you would include love in your top three?). ?"


----------



## rgp (Oct 27, 2020)

Pinky said:


> Honesty and Sincerity.
> It goes without saying - respect.




 And what are they going to do to earn it ?


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Instead of "handle" read "manage", although it may not scan so well in the song, so wherever wrote it used a word to mean the same thing, (he /she didn't mean physically handle did they).
> 
> Anyone taking objection to the word probably meant quite innocently has fallen into a bit of a trap though, because if you listened to Bry Terfel singing you'll know the last line is, " How to handle a woman, is to love her, simply love her",(and who doesn't want that, man or woman?).     .



I admit to not listening to the song at all, but instead joined the conversation based on what the women here contributed.  I can see what you are getting at, but I still think that "handle" or "manage" are loaded terms, and based on comments here, women seem to be tired of either term being applied to them in any context.  So this is probably a bit odd in a way because I see more than one point here, but I would put more weight on the opinions of those to whom the term being discussed is being applied.

Tony


----------



## Pinky (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> "Not love too, (I'm sure you would include love in your top three?). ?"


Of course  ❤


----------



## Sassycakes (Oct 27, 2020)

*To be loved,respected and always being honest . That isn't too much to ask of how a man treats his woman.*


----------



## Pinky (Oct 27, 2020)

Sassycakes said:


> *To be loved,respected and always being honest . That isn't too much to ask of how a man treats his woman.*


Unfortunately, some men have a need to control. Honesty is another issue.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 27, 2020)

Woman want what men want what children want.  Unconditional LOVE.


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

I have never thought of my wife as being "my woman" because she has always been her own person to be respected, rather than possessed.  Of course the term "my wife" is possessive, but then to her, I am "her husband", but not "my man".  Funny world, isn't it? 

Completely separate subject, but somehow tangential, I have always thought it weird that a person can "own" a pet such as a dog or cat.  These are living things with lives of their own.  We may choose to form a bond with them and take care of them, but never truly "own" them like we would a car or TV.

I suppose I have a strange way of looking at these things. 

Tony


----------



## DaveA (Oct 27, 2020)

I think I, and our family, have been "handled" for the past 64 years, all by the same woman.  The kids have problems and who do they call - - Mom!   Who do I call if I have a problem - -the same Mom.

Except for 5 or 6 years, she's been one of the "stay at home moms", much derided by modern day women.  For all 4 of our kids, grandkids, and great grands that followed, she was the "go to" person in our family.  Much loved for the time and patience that she had for all of us.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 27, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I have never thought of my wife as being "my woman" because she has always been her own person to be respected, rather than possessed.  Of course the term "my wife" is possessive, but then to her, I am "her husband", but not "my man".  Funny world, isn't it?
> 
> Completely separate subject, but somehow tangential, I have always thought it weird that a person can "own" a pet such as a dog or cat.  These are living things with lives of their own.  We may choose to form a bond with them and take care of them, but never truly "own" them like we would a car or TV.
> 
> ...


Well, few of us rarely own a car, , we just pay and pay and pay, then trade it in, and pay and pay, and pay.  It’s the bank that owns most of the cars.  We just keep the banks cars clean and in working condition.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 27, 2020)

A mom sounds like a wonderful person.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 27, 2020)

I paid cash for my car therefore I own it.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Oct 27, 2020)




----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, few of us rarely own a car, , we just pay and pay and pay, then trade it in, and pay and pay, and pay.  It’s the bank that owns most of the cars.  We just keep the banks cars clean and in working condition.



Nice one!  I have always paid cash for my car, as does my wife.  We have always chosen to live debt-free (except our mortgage that we paid off 10 years early).  We have never owned new cars because we buy what we can afford.  My car is 20 years old, my wife's is 18 years old, both are still doing fine and neither has had any serious problems.

That said, your point is well made, since I suspect many people do borrow to buy cars. 

Tony


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 27, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Nice one!  I have always paid cash for my car, as does my wife.  We have always chosen to live debt-free (except our mortgage that we paid off 10 years early).  We have never owned new cars because we buy what we can afford.  My car is 20 years old, my wife's is 18 years old, both are still doing fine and neither has had any serious problems.
> 
> That said, your point is well made, since* I suspect many people do borrow to buy cars.*
> 
> Tony


And how about those who "rent" their vehicles?

Between dear husband and myself, we know MANY who lease their vehicles, because the payments are cheaper, and at the end of the term, they hand the keys back to the dealer and drive home in a brand spanking new one.

That sort of mentality I will NEVER understand.


----------



## LindaB (Oct 27, 2020)

At this point in my life, love and tranquility reign supreme for me.


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> And how about those who "rent" their vehicles?
> 
> Between dear husband and myself, we know MANY who lease their vehicles, because the payments are cheaper, and at the end of the term, they hand the keys back to the dealer and drive home in a brand spanking new one.
> 
> That sort of mentality I will NEVER understand.



Good point.  Leasing is renting, so it is similar to renting an apartment or furniture or whatever else people can rent these days.  To me, with limited understanding of leasing a vehicle, it seems that for a business, it might make sense since they would write off the cost.  From what I have read, it doesn't make a good financial choice for private individuals.  But for those who must make payments, if it is less expensive per month, then maybe that is better than not having a car.

I learned long ago to pay myself first, so I pay myself a "car payment" every month so that when it comes time to buy a car, I don't need to borrow.  Also, I check to see how much I have then to spend on a car, and stay within that limit.  Hence, I have never owned a new car.  Fortunately, cars for me are simply a tool to get from point A to point B and back.  If we take a long road trip, we rent a car rather than putting miles on our own vehicles.  We don't often do that, so it works out fine for us.  Everybody has to work out what works for them, and this is what works for us.

I have read a number of time in magazine articles about stress and insomnia, that it is money issues that cause these things for a great number of people.  I could see that, especially when something big happens to the economy, or the individual layoff, and suddenly, the music stops.  All that debt comes crashing down, rapidly eating up whatever cash and savings a person might have.  I would not want to live like that, and we have consciously chosen not to.

Tony


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 27, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Good point.  Leasing is renting, so it is similar to renting an apartment or furniture or whatever else people can rent these days.  To me, with limited understanding of leasing a vehicle, it seems that for a business, it might make sense since they would write off the cost.  From what I have read, it doesn't make a good financial choice for private individuals.  But for those who must make payments, if it is less expensive per month, then maybe that is better than not having a car.
> 
> I learned long ago to pay myself first, so I pay myself a "car payment" every month so that when it comes time to buy a car, I don't need to borrow.  Also, I check to see how much I have then to spend on a car, and stay within that limit.  Hence, I have never owned a new car.  Fortunately, cars for me are simply a tool to get from point A to point B and back.  If we take a long road trip, we rent a car rather than putting miles on our own vehicles.  We don't often do that, so it works out fine for us.  Everybody has to work out what works for them, and this is what works for us.
> 
> ...


Well said, Tony.

Dear husband and I know a couple who are destined to die before they'll ever be able to afford to retire. Their priorities are misguided. They complain about being broke, and they are, living paycheck to paycheck each month, yet the just finished paying off one of the vehicles they own, and they're already talking about buying a brand spanking new replacement for it, so as the old saying goes, _people are the product of their own making._

Dear husband is friends with a gentleman who has seen his fair-share of tough and trying times, and a few years back when said gentleman was nearing financial collapse, dear husband tried stepping in to provide him with a sense of direction, yet said gentleman pooh-poohed dear husband's kindness, expressing to dear husband that he was in control, and that he would be able to dig himself out in a handful of years.

Two years later the man's marriage ended, they lost the house, and then the man lost his job. The man is now in his early 60's, and he has nothing.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Woman want what men want what children want.  Unconditional LOVE.


I misread your first sentence as, "Women want what men want, children", (and it'll do as an answer to the OP sometimes won't it)".    .


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

No ones asked me what do I really want yet(?).

I'm looking for a "rough diamond", (the only question is how rough.  ?!).


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 27, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> And how about those who "rent" their vehicles?
> 
> Between dear husband and myself, we know MANY who lease their vehicles, because the payments are cheaper, and at the end of the term, they hand the keys back to the dealer and drive home in a brand spanking new one.
> 
> That sort of mentality I will NEVER understand.


My daughter did this so she could always have an updated expensive car.  Once she realized that a six figure job, on call all the time job, as not worth the money she quit that job.  Bought a used car and discovered you can play the game just as well from the cheap seats.


----------



## ClassicRockr (Oct 27, 2020)

Some women really need, to the point of "requiring" a man that makes a high salary. Luckily, my wife wasn't like that at all, but her salary was much, much higher than mine. Her Bachelors Degree got that for her. What she got was a man that loved to cook, could help clean the home-do laundry-load, run, unload dishwasher, change bed linens........all with no complaints. A guy that looked great (her feelings) in Western clothes and could saddle/ride a horse. A guy, like herself, was very much "marriage minded" and loved to darn near everything together. 

Then again, there are women that don't want a man with tattoos, my wife was exactly like that. Doesn't want a man that smokes. And, I'm sure the list goes on for the "wants" and "don't want".


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 27, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> My daughter did this so she could always have an updated expensive car.  Once she realized that a six figure job, on call all the time job, as not worth the money she quit that job.  Bought a used car and discovered you can play the game just as well from the cheap seats.


Good on your daughter.

It will never cease to amaze me what today's generation puts themselves through in the way of stress, financial uncertainty and hardship, and all in the name of putting on a show for others, or their attempt at keeping up with the Jones's.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 27, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Good on your daughter.
> 
> It will never cease to amaze me what today's generation puts themselves through in the way of stress, financial uncertainty and hardship, and all in the name of putting on a show for others, or their attempt at keeping up with the Jones's.


She reinvented herself.  Went from a high paying job working for a credit card company to working part time as a teachers aide for disabled children in a school for the deaf.  I think she came to a lot of realizations in that time period.

She then returned to higher paying jobs, but never returned to any job that required “putting on a show“.  She now works at home due to the virus, makes a decent living, and as I have said, is raising her granddaughter.  A granddaughter is so much more important than a fancy car.  . Many people, sadly, never learn this lesson.


----------



## Liberty (Oct 27, 2020)

Women are all different of course.  I didn't have to have a man that was rich or made a lot of money...with that said, wanted a man that wasn't a "charmer" or lazy and would actually  WORK.  LOL.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 27, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> She reinvented herself.  Went from a high paying job working for a credit card company to working part time as a teachers aide for disabled children in a school for the deaf.  I think she came to a lot of realizations in that time period.
> 
> She then returned to higher paying jobs, but never returned to any job that required “putting on a show“.  She now works at home due to the virus, makes a decent living, and as I have said, is raising her granddaughter.  A granddaughter is so much more important than a fancy car.  . *Many people, sadly, never learn this lesson*.


I agree, and it seems that it's becoming chronic today.


----------



## Chet (Oct 27, 2020)

Women want what everyone wants, just happiness and whatever that looks like is up to the individual.


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Good on your daughter.
> 
> It will never cease to amaze me what today's generation puts themselves through in the way of stress, financial uncertainty and hardship, and all in the name of putting on a show for others, or their attempt at keeping up with the Jones's.



While I can't comment on today's generation since I don't have any kids or other connection to that generation personally, I can comment on at least some of people putting themselves in debt.  In short, there is a form of conditioning as to what becomes the comfortable norm.  If that is what everybody you (not "you" you, but general "you") know does, so it is the norm, then that can become the lifestyle.  When I was growing up, there was much shame in not being able to manage one's finances, but that has apparently changed if I am to believe the stats on credit card debt, car debt, etc.  

I was talking to my younger brother, who still lives in Los Angeles and he mentioned that the rent on the house he was renting in North Hollywood went from $4k a month (a bargain, apparently) to $6 a month, so he moved to an apartment.  I recounted my experience when we were considering a movie to the East Bay area when jobs around here were scarce and there was a good job out there for me.  I said that if we had made that  move, we would never get out of debt for a home.  He said that the mindset out there is very different than where I live because having a mortgage is not so much about paying it off, but a hedge against rising rent prices.  

So there seem to be different ways that people think of debt.  To me, our condo is the only thing that stands between us and homelessness (i.e. no place to live), so paying it off as quickly as possible was a priority, and we are really glad now that we did that.  I would not want a rent or mortgage payment every month eating up my savings or SS in retirement.  Also, rent can be hard to budget for when changing conditions ca quickly and radically effect prices.  When the mortgage crisis hit, lots of people lost their homes and crowded into the rental market, quickly driving up prices due to supply and demand suddenly shifting.  At the same time, the stock market plunged.  If a person were retired then and depending on investments to supplement SS, and still had a mortgage or worse, renting, that would be a real cause for stress.

Tony


----------



## C'est Moi (Oct 27, 2020)

We want for men to stop telling us what we want.


----------



## Judycat (Oct 27, 2020)

Just work with me man. If you make a mess, that's fine, everybody does from time to time. Clean it the f*** up. I'm not talking about beer cans left on the coffee table either.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> No ones asked me what do I really want yet(?).


No they didn’t. I didn’t know you were a woman?


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 27, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> While I can't comment on today's generation since I don't have any kids or other connection to that generation personally, I can comment on at least some of people putting themselves in debt.  In short, there is a form of conditioning as to what becomes the comfortable norm.  If that is what everybody you (not "you" you, but general "you") know does, so it is the norm, then that can become the lifestyle.  When I was growing up, there was much shame in not being able to manage one's finances, but that has apparently changed if I am to believe the stats on credit card debt, car debt, etc.
> 
> I was talking to my younger brother, who still lives in Los Angeles and he mentioned that the rent on the house he was renting in North Hollywood went from $4k a month (a bargain, apparently) to $6 a month, so he moved to an apartment.  I recounted my experience when we were considering a movie to the East Bay area when jobs around here were scarce and there was a good job out there for me.  I said that if we had made that  move, we would never get out of debt for a home.  He said that the mindset out there is very different than where I live because having a mortgage is not so much about paying it off, but a hedge against rising rent prices.
> 
> ...


Your and my conversation sure takes me back to my younger childhood days, when families bought a home within their affordability range, they worked hard to pay it off, and once they had the home paid off, they didn't look to move and upgrade again but rather, they looked to maybe put on a small addition, possible do a few renovations, and then they enjoyed the ride, as in hunkered-down and enjoyed their home.

It wasn't unheard of to still see families residing in the same home they bought some 40 years earlier, and people seemed happier, more content living life simply and uncomplicated, unlike today where from all that I see, people tend to welcome hardship and stressors by looking for more when they can afford so little.

I hear it often nowadays... "_both couples have to work to get by today_", and while there is a shade of truth behind that way of thinking, I don't buy into it fully. When I was young and growing, families had a single family vehicle they relied on, and I was hard-pressed to count on one hand how many families had recreational vehicles or boats to their name. Very few, today however, not so, I see enormous homes rising all the time with not just a single garage anymore like it used to be, but multi-garages, and all bays are filled, and even more surprising is seeing those newly built homes seemingly vacant or uninhabited most of the time, because the couples are too busy being slaves to their jobs. The question always arises in me... for what? For materialistic possessions? You can have it.

Call me old-fashioned, but our average home is nothing fancy, but it's warm, comfortable, welcoming, and full of love, and that's more than I can say for the cold and often clinical-like homes I see today, where there are no lights on, no movement within or outside of, and aside from the homes making a statement as to their newness, they don't hold a lick to homes like ours where the people who reside within are real people, non-materialistic people, people who you can sit down with over a cup of coffee and have an enjoyable conversation with.


----------



## fancicoffee13 (Oct 27, 2020)

I love to have respect, honor, friends, family, good health, and good delish food.  There is nothing that can replace love and a loving family and love from friends (real friends). And to top that off to have delicious food and good health are irreplaceable.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> No ones asked me what do I really want yet(?).
> 
> I'm looking for a "rough diamond", (the only question is how rough.  ?!).


What do you want, Graham, outside of a rough diamond?


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Oct 27, 2020)

@Pinky hit it on the nose in a nutshell. Haven't had a chance to read the other replies yet but it's a moot point for me now. I do not want or need another man in my life. I'm loving the freedom and peace that comes with it.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

Keesha said:


> No they didn’t. I didn’t know you were a woman?


You are right there....(just needed a lead in to my "ever so funny" line about "rough diamonds who ain't too rough" everybody has chosen to ignore. ).

Funny post though!    .


----------



## Knight (Oct 27, 2020)

Being politically correct has it's better points sometimes. For this question I defer to the women for their responses. They know.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 27, 2020)

Graham, perhaps people may not have understood what you meant, I thought you were interjecting some levity into the conversation rather than a serious talking point.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> What do you want, Graham, outside of a rough diamond?


My dear mama used to say it was my dads sense of humour made her go for him, though he said she was smitten from the start, and banged her head on the panel behind her at the village hall when she first clapped eyes on the handsome, confident young eighteen year old man he most certainly was, (three years her senior to the day).    .

I guess I'm like my mum in that respect, as many other respects no doubt, (with just a wee bit of my dads fire perhaps?). "Thanks for asking!".  .


----------



## jerry old (Oct 27, 2020)

Grahamg posted a "Rough Diamond "

Rough Diamonds are a once in a life time occurrence'
Males are too ignorant or too poor to grasp who and what a 'diamond' their dealing
with and let them slip away.
I hope they find/found someone or something they deserve.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> We want for men to stop telling us what we want.


You've taken the prize for funniest post so far in my humble opinion!    .


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Your and my conversation sure takes me back to my younger childhood days, when families bought a home within their affordability range, they worked hard to pay it off, and once they had the home paid off, they didn't look to move and upgrade again but rather, they looked to maybe put on a small addition, possible do a few renovations, and then they enjoyed the ride, as in hunkered-down and enjoyed their home.
> 
> It wasn't unheard of to still see families residing in the same home they bought some 40 years earlier, and people seemed happier, more content living life simply and uncomplicated, unlike today where from all that I see, people tend to welcome hardship and stressors by looking for more when they can afford so little.
> 
> ...



While I don't take any issue with what you have said, I do feel there are additional factors at play today that put financial pressure on many people.  Many things are much more expensive relative to a typical income than they were when I was growing up.  Health care costs, a college education, even food and other daily items have gone up.  Where pens, pencils, and notebooks were what we used in school, if I understand what I have seen in the media (print, TV, etc.) now, students are required to have a computer, which is way more expensive than the simple things we used.

When I went to college (much later in life, in the 90s), I was able to pay my way through school with a full time job and school in the evenings.  I had no student loans.  I doubt that I could come even close for the same degree today.  I honestly don't know what those who pursue degrees in fields other than tech, medical, the sciences, or law can do to ever pay off those loans.

More in line with your observations, with both parents working, eating out becomes much more the norm.  On occasion, my wife and I will stop and pickup sub sandwiches at a shop such as Subway or Jimmy John's.  When we considered how far that same money could go by just buying the materials and assembling these ourselves, and to our individual liking, we stopped that practice altogether.  I can't imagine how people can continue to afford that on a regular basis.

When working full time, we engineers used to go out for lunch every day back in the 80s and up through the mid-90s.  Around that time, we all stopped altogether except for special occasions such as somebody new starting or somebody leaving.  We are talking about people with 6 figure incomes, not minimum wage earners.  We felt we couldn't afford to go out to eat anymore.

When my youngest brother died, we all congregated in Los Angeles for the funeral.  As we all talked among our siblings, we began to realize that the cars we each drove and the lifestyles we had were inversely proportional to our respective incomes.  A younger brother, who is an attorney made the most money and drove a car his mother in law had given him, an old Ford Probe.  I was next as an engineer and I drove a Toyota Echo (still drive that same car 10 years later) I bought used for $5k cash.  I have now had the car for 16 years.  The youngest, who had died, drove a brand new truck that we used to go places because it was big, expensive, and comfortable, and fit all of us.  All those in between followed that same arc that I mentioned here. 

As I recall when working full time, with both parents and kids, they needed daycare, and it cost as much as one of the two made working full time.  I can see the rationale, because if they got divorced or one of them died, the other would need a career to keep afloat (at least that is my guess giving the benefit of the doubt).

Tony


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Graham, perhaps people may not have understood what you meant, I thought you were interjecting some levity into the conversation rather than a serious talking point.


"Who, what, moi?"

Non non cherie, (c'est exactement pour amusement oui?).    .


----------



## Keesha (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> You are right there....(just needed a lead in to my "ever so funny" line about "rough diamonds who ain't too rough" everybody has chosen to ignore. ).
> 
> Funny post though!    .


Well I’m a diamond in the rough. Too rough for you but that’s ok since  I’m taken.  Lol


----------



## asp3 (Oct 27, 2020)

Pinky said:


> Honesty and Sincerity.
> It goes without saying - respect.





rgp said:


> And what are they going to do to earn it ?



I'm not surprised that this question was asked but I am disappointed that it was.  All people should get honesty and sincerity without earning it.  I also think that there should be at least some level of respect given to people without them having to earn it.  Higher levels of respect can be earned and lower level of respect can be applied to people as they lose one's respect by their actions.


----------



## asp3 (Oct 27, 2020)

I think the question is too simplistic.  Different women want different things.  Different people want different things.  I think that showing anyone the things @Pinky mentioned, honesty, sincerity and respect, one opens the door to learning what that person wants.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 27, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> While I don't take any issue with what you have said, I do feel there are additional factors at play today that put financial pressure on many people.  Many things are much more expensive relative to a typical income than they were when I was growing up.  Health care costs, a college education, even food and other daily items have gone up.  Where pens, pencils, and notebooks were what we used in school, if I understand what I have seen in the media (print, TV, etc.) now, students are required to have a computer, which is way more expensive than the simple things we used.
> 
> When I went to college (much later in life, in the 90s), I was able to pay my way through school with a full time job and school in the evenings.  I had no student loans.  I doubt that I could come even close for the same degree today.  I honestly don't know what those who pursue degrees in fields other than tech, medical, the sciences, or law can do to ever pay off those loans.
> 
> ...


Wonderful post, Tony, and I agree with the bulk of what you mentioned.

One thing that stands out for me is the expenditures associated with eating out. Dear husband and I never go out... more so now with the pandemic, however, on the rare occasion (in the past), both hubby and I were mortified over the cost of a meal out. Even the most basic of lunch for the two of us would ring in at $50 -$60 by the time a tip was added, and yet prior to when Covid hit, restaurant parking lots were packed, and a majority of the restaurant goers were young people and families.

I see no restraint these days, even though the dollar doesn't go as far as it used to. It seems to me that when times get tough and prices rise, people just dig deeper into their pockets for the means in which to fulfill their wants and needs. People spend today like there will be no tomorrow.

Where I'm going with all of this is, sure, today is more expensive than yesteryear, but somewhere along the way recognizing the fact that - _you cannot afford such_, has been lost. When I was growing up, no one I knew dug themselves in like folks do nowadays. Debt load is through the roof, people are one paycheck away from the soup-line, and it's no small wonder why everyone is wound up like tops and snapping and cracking, but it all revolves back to restraint.

People impose a good portion of the hardships upon themselves, because they don't know how to put their foot down and say no. No more to excessive spending, no more to frivolous things, no more to vacations and such, and the list goes on.

Sure, I feel for many people who have no control over the cost of living today, but for a majority struggling and battling the day to day rigors of high debt-load and financial woes, they've brought it upon themselves, and for those types I harvest no sympathy.

Moral of the story, live within your means. It's not hard to do.


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Wonderful post, Tony, and I agree with the bulk of what you mentioned.
> 
> One thing that stands out for me is the expenditures associated with eating out. Dear husband and I never go out... more so now with the pandemic, however, on the rare occasion (in the past), both hubby and I were mortified over the cost of a meal out. Even the most basic of lunch for the two of us would ring in at $50 -$60 by the time a tip was added, and yet prior to when Covid hit, restaurant parking lots were packed, and a majority of the restaurant goers were young people and families.
> 
> ...



Excellent post. 

Tony


----------



## win231 (Oct 27, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> I, for one, object to being “handled” at all. It is a paternalistic term, and condescending.


OK.  I can handle that.


----------



## win231 (Oct 27, 2020)

Sometimes, women tell their husbands/boyfriends that they want to hear their opinion on something.
What they really want is to hear their own opinion - in a deeper voice.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 27, 2020)

win231 said:


> Sometimes, women tell their husbands/boyfriends that they want to hear their opinion on something.
> What they really want is to hear their own opinion - in a deeper voice.


No. That would insinuate that you guys actually listen.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 27, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I'm not surprised that this question was asked but I am disappointed that it was.  All people should get honesty and sincerity without earning it.  I also think that there should be at least some level of respect given to people without them having to earn it.  Higher levels of respect can be earned and lower level of respect can be applied to people as they lose one's respect by their actions.


Ohhhh yes. My thoughts exactly. Recipe for healthy interactions with others, and a mantra for living an authentic life.


----------



## Nathan (Oct 27, 2020)

asp3 said:


> All people should get honesty and sincerity without earning it.  I also think that there should be at least some level of respect given to people without them having to earn it.



Yes, QFT.

Respect that needs to be earned applies to authority figures. The Army taught me and my fellow NCO candidates that subordinates shall respect the authority of a higher ranking soldier without question, but that individual cannot "command" personal respect, it would be earned by their honorable behavior.


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I think the question is too simplistic.  Different women want different things.  Different people want different things.  I think that showing anyone the things @Pinky mentioned, honesty, sincerity and respect, one opens the door to learning what that person wants.



I do think though, that as human beings, there are certain commonalities such as "three hots and a cot", for example.  We may have different definitions for some of the things that many have said here that people want such as being treated fairly, love, respect, etc.  So for different people, some of these may take somewhat different forms, but these do seem to be universal.  Then, beyond basic needs/wants, we each do have individual wants.

Tony


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I think the question is too simplistic.  Different women want different things.  Different people want different things.  I think that showing anyone the things @Pinky mentioned, honesty, sincerity and respect, one opens the door to learning what that person wants.


I do think you've laid out exactly the flaw in the OP question, (others were close too).

My father used to say, "It wouldn't do if we were all the same" as well.

Some people like an argument for example, (I'd have to put myself in that category, and my mother fitted into it too I'm sure, so another likeness), whilst others are adept at avoiding arguments pretty well, both in their private lives and beyond. A cousin of mine said when she tried to provoke her husband into an argument when they were first married, he just wouldn't get worked up about things as she wanted. It annoyed her but she had to live with it, or learn to live with it, and they've continued to have a very happy and successful marriage fifty years on. I'd suggest that is a good example of learning to "manage" your partner/spouse, (or "handle them" if the words dont offend too much    ?).


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Well I’m a diamond in the rough. Too rough for you but that’s ok since  I’m taken.  Lol


I doubt you're rough in the sense I meant the word at all, and I'd guess your guy is a lucky man too, (even a roughish fool like me can have a go at charm sometimes   ).


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

Time for a bit more Bryn Terfel to warm the cockles of everyone heart perhaps:


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Time for a bit more Bryn Terfel to warm the cockles of everyone heart perhaps:



Nice!  Thanks for posting this.

Tony


----------



## Keesha (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I doubt you're rough in the sense I meant the word at all, and I'd guess your guy is a lucky man too, (even a roughish fool like me can have a go at charm sometimes   ).


Lol. I’m just joking around with you.
Im actually the lucky one. My man is my better half for sure. He’s the best thing that ever happened to me and I’m most grateful.❤ 
Plus he’s funny 

You are just as deserving of finding someone special grahamg.


----------



## asp3 (Oct 27, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I do think though, that as human beings, there are certain commonalities such as "three hots and a cot", for example.  We may have different definitions for some of the things that many have said here that people want such as being treated fairly, love, respect, etc.  So for different people, some of these may take somewhat different forms, but these do seem to be universal.  Then, beyond basic needs/wants, we each do have individual wants.
> 
> Tony



I agree with what you're saying to some degree, but think some of the things you're describing are needs not wants.

The point I was trying to make is I think it's a mistake to group any person with others who are in the same group (gender, race, religion, nationality) when considering something about them.  I prefer to deal with people as individuals.  Some of the groupings listed above might give me some indication of what they may be like or what they may desire, but it isn't a given.  I'd rather assume that I can't tell by what I know about them superficially and be open to learning more about who they are and what they think and/or want.

Going back to what Pinky wrote, giving them my honesty, sincerity and respect is a great start towards getting to know who they are and what they want.


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I agree with what you're saying to some degree, but think some of the things you're describing are needs not wants.
> 
> The point I was trying to make is I think it's a mistake to group any person with others who are in the same group (gender, race, religion, nationality) when considering something about them.  I prefer to deal with people as individuals.  Some of the groupings listed above might give me some indication of what they may be like or what they may desire, but it isn't a given.  I'd rather assume that I can't tell by what I know about them superficially and be open to learning more about who they are and what they think and/or want.
> 
> Going back to what Pinky wrote, giving them my honesty, sincerity and respect is a great start towards getting to know who they are and what they want.



I have said pretty much the same as you about seeing individuals instead of groups in other threads, so I do agree.  I also think that in discussions such as this, differences between needs and wants can become a somewhat grey area, so your first sentence makes sense in any of the contexts in this thread.

I can't imagine disagreeing with your last sentence (or Pinky) either.

Tony


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I agree with what you're saying to some degree, but think some of the things you're describing are needs not wants.
> 
> The point I was trying to make is I think it's a mistake to group any person with others who are in the same group (gender, race, religion, nationality) when considering something about them.  I prefer to deal with people as individuals.  Some of the groupings listed above might give me some indication of what they may be like or what they may desire, but it isn't a given.  I'd rather assume that I can't tell by what I know about them superficially and be open to learning more about who they are and what they think and/or want.
> 
> Going back to what Pinky wrote, giving them my honesty, sincerity and respect is a great start towards getting to know who they are and what they want.


Don't you think, when you're hit by cupids arrow, all kinds of rational, or reasonable, respectful even, thought goes out the window a little?     .


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Don't you think, when you're hit by cupids arrow, all kinds of rational, or reasonable, respectful even, thought goes out the window a little?     .


No!!


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> No!!


Yes, it must just a little, "you musta been hit a glancing blow"!     .


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 27, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> No!!


Agreed. We are not twenty anymore, more or less controlled by hormones, and Nature‘s attempt to perpetuate the species. Also, we do not all experience love in the same fashion. One size definitely does not fit all


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Agreed. We are not twenty anymore


It can happen at forty, (not got any evidence to prove one way or tother so far as sixty goes).    .


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> It can happen at forty, (not got any evidence to prove one way or tother so far as sixty goes).    .


For the most part, today’s young woman are better educated about man woman relationships than ever in history.  They have the internet-know how to check men or women out. While some older woman may become the prey of a con artist, Cupid if you will, those professionals are very good at what they do.


----------



## Ladybj (Oct 27, 2020)

To be Loved, heard and a sense of all will be ok from her significant other.  I already love myself some me and know everything will be AOK.  I want the things money cannot buy. HUGS, KISSES and a LOT of IN BETWEEN..


----------



## Ladybj (Oct 27, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> For the most part, today’s young woman are better educated about man woman relationships than ever in history.  They have the internet-know how to check men or women out. While some older woman may become the prey of a con artist, Cupid if you will, those professionals are very good at what they do.


I agree to a certain degree.  There are a LOT of older mature women that will ALWAYS be about 3 steps ahead of men.  They have lived a life that have taught them AWESOME lessons.  So many young women are prey as well... Men that Prey on women does not age discriminate.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 27, 2020)

Ladybj said:


> I agree to a certain degree.  There are a LOT of older mature women that will ALWAYS be about 3 steps ahead of men.  They have lived a life that have taught them AWESOME lessons.  So many young women are prey as well... Men that Prey on women does not age discriminate.


True, but woman prey on men as well.


----------



## asp3 (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Don't you think, when you're hit by cupids arrow, all kinds of rational, or reasonable, respectful even, thought goes out the window a little?     .



It depends on where cupid's arrow has hit me.

I certainly admit feeling lust towards women where rational, reasonable and respectful thought has gone out the window.  However my rational side recognizes these feelings as lust and doesn't share them, express them or act on them.  No one needs to know about my lust unless we're already in a relationship where I know sharing such thoughts is welcomed by her.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 27, 2020)

The Cinderella story, and the like, harmed generations of both young men and young women.  Women need to save themselves, men need to back off.


----------



## Ladybj (Oct 27, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> True, but woman prey on men as well.


I agree. I was commenting on the post about older women are more prey to men.


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> No!!



I remember a post you made on the subject of romance in another thread.  I don't want to try to misquote you here, but I agreed with you then and now. 

Tony


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 27, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I remember a post you made on the subject of romance in another thread.  I don't want to try to misquote you here, but I agreed with you then and now.
> 
> Tony


I said, I think, that my husband and I are not romantic.  We still are not.  In fact, right before we married I wrote and told him if he ever hit me, ever, I would kill him in his sleep.  I meant it.  He believed me and he never has hit me.

You can misquote me.  I have a terrible memory and forget what I write, or change my mind , but @Aunt Marg said I am 100% correct all the time so now, I sticking with that.


----------



## Pepper (Oct 27, 2020)

Loose shoes
Big *)*^
And a warm place to $(!+

"Those oldies but goodies remind me of you.........."


----------



## Ladybj (Oct 27, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I said, I think, that my husband and I are not romantic.  We still are not.  In fact, right before we married I wrote and told him if he ever hit me, ever, I would kill him in his sleep.  I meant it.  He believed me and he never has hit me.
> 
> You can misquote me.  I have a terrible memory and forget what I write, or change my mind , but @Aunt Marg said I am 100% correct all the time so now, I sticking with that.


I do understand but I could not kill my husband because if he hit me, he would not be worth me spending jail time. I would enjoy spending his $$$$$ instead.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

asp3 said:


> It depends on where cupid's arrow has hit me.
> I certainly admit feeling lust towards women where rational, reasonable and respectful thought has gone out the window.  However my rational side recognizes these feelings as lust and doesn't share them, express them or act on them.  No one needs to know about my lust unless we're already in a relationship where I know sharing such thoughts is welcomed by her.


You can lust after so many members of the opposite sex can't you, and I doubt the experience is really anything like the one you get when you meet someone a bit special, (whether you choose to act on that feeling or not too?).     .


----------



## grahamg (Oct 27, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I remember a post you made on the subject of romance in another thread.  I don't want to try to misquote you here, but I agreed with you then and now.
> 
> Tony


I doubt I'm very romantic either, but I remember the late, great actor, Sir John Mills explaining in a tv interview alongside his wife, another actor maybe, how they both decided early on, for their marriage to survive the rigours and strains of a show business lifestyle, they decided to do everything they could to keep the romance going, and succeeded.    .


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I doubt I'm very romantic either, but I remember the late, great actor, Sir John Mills explaining in a tv interview alongside his wife, another actor maybe, how they both decided early on, for their marriage to survive the rigours and strains of a show business lifestyle, they decided to do everything they could to keep the romance going, and succeeded.    .



That is certainly commendable.  My wife and I were friends for several years before getting married and have always been comfortable with each other.  Things just seem to work for us, whatever name we might put on it.

Tony


----------



## asp3 (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> You can lust after so many members of the opposite sex can't you, and I doubt the experience is really anything like the one you get when you meet someone a bit special, (whether you choose to act on that feeling or not too?).     .



It's actually not that different for me.  I've had loving relationships that started with physical lust transformed into intellectual and emotional intensity as well.  I've also had loving relationships that started with intellectual or emotional lust that transformed to include physical intensity as well.  I've fallen in love with a woman who I wasn't that attracted to in any way initially.  For me the catalyst doesn't determine the depth or intensity of the eventual relationship.

Interestingly enough the women I tend to remember the most are the ones where we were on different pages and never got onto the same page for one reason or another.


----------



## MFP (Oct 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Instead of "handle" read "manage", although it may not scan so well in the song, so whoever wrote it used a word to mean the same thing, (he /she didn't mean physically handle did they).
> 
> Anyone taking objection to the word probably meant quite innocently has fallen into a bit of a trap though, because if you listened to Bryn Terfel singing you'll know the last line is, " How to handle a woman, is to love her, simply love her",(and who doesn't want that, man or woman?).     .


Handle and manage have the same purpose. I can manage just fine without being handled.


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 27, 2020)

Handle with care.
Manage for success.
Our aim is to keep this place clean, your aim is appreciated.
Go big or go home.
Just do it!
.
.
.

Lots of little phrases to keep us on our toes. 

Tony


----------



## Furryanimal (Oct 27, 2020)

To be taken shopping instead of you going to the game...I’m not married..


----------



## peramangkelder (Oct 27, 2020)

Respect....R.E.S.P.E.C.T....Respect


----------



## grahamg (Oct 28, 2020)

peramangkelder said:


> Respect....R.E.S.P.E.C.T....Respect


Tina Turner fan?   .


----------



## grahamg (Oct 28, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Handle with care.
> Manage for success.
> Our aim is to keep this place clean, your aim is appreciated.
> Go big or go home. Just do it!
> Lots of little phrases to keep us on our toes.  Tony


"Transactional analysis aims to help get the best relationships too(?)"


----------



## grahamg (Oct 28, 2020)

MFP said:


> Handle and manage have the same purpose. I can manage just fine without being handled.


Never been tamed and never going to be(?).

I've been tame enough, and could do with a bit of handling and managing perhaps, (and as an old mate of my dads used to say, "A woman can draw a man further than any man can force him to go").    .


----------



## grahamg (Oct 28, 2020)

asp3 said:


> It's actually not that different for me.  I've had loving relationships that started with physical lust transformed into intellectual and emotional intensity as well.  I've also had loving relationships that started with intellectual or emotional lust that transformed to include physical intensity as well.  I've fallen in love with a woman who I wasn't that attracted to in any way initially.  For me the catalyst doesn't determine the depth or intensity of the eventual relationship.
> Interestingly enough the women I tend to remember the most are the ones where we were on different pages and never got onto the same page for one reason or another.


Could you be described as "the thinking woman's totty"?    .


----------



## peramangkelder (Oct 28, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Tina Turner fan?   .


@grahamg it was none other than the late great Aretha Franklin


----------



## JimBob1952 (Oct 28, 2020)

Grew up with three older sisters.  Dated a lot.  Married twice, the second time for 34 years and counting.  

What do women want?  I have no idea whatsoever.


----------



## Packerjohn (Oct 28, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Good point.  Leasing is renting, so it is similar to renting an apartment or furniture or whatever else people can rent these days.  To me, with limited understanding of leasing a vehicle, it seems that for a business, it might make sense since they would write off the cost.  From what I have read, it doesn't make a good financial choice for private individuals.  But for those who must make payments, if it is less expensive per month, then maybe that is better than not having a car.
> 
> I learned long ago to pay myself first, so I pay myself a "car payment" every month so that when it comes time to buy a car, I don't need to borrow.  Also, I check to see how much I have then to spend on a car, and stay within that limit.  Hence, I have never owned a new car.  Fortunately, cars for me are simply a tool to get from point A to point B and back.  If we take a long road trip, we rent a car rather than putting miles on our own vehicles.  We don't often do that, so it works out fine for us.  Everybody has to work out what works for them, and this is what works for us.
> 
> ...


Boy Tony, you sure "hit the nail on the head".  I could never understand all those people maxed out on their credit cards.  I drive a 2018 Ford Focus with all the bells & whistles.  I bought it 1 year old & paid cash for it and I got a great deal.  I don't owe any money to anyone, the pension comes each month so I "sleep like a baby".  Leasing a vehicle was never for me.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 28, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> The Cinderella story, and the like, harmed generations of both young men and young women.  Women need to save themselves, men need to back off.


When I was in my twenties, my response to Cinderella Syndrome was, “Cinderella is a  hardazz roller derby queen, Prince Charming is gay, and not coming for me.”


----------



## asp3 (Oct 28, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Could you be described as "the thinking woman's totty"?    .



You've removed another bit of my ignorance, I hadn't heard the term totty before.

If so I'm completely unaware of it.  I am often clueless when someone is attracted to me so from my point of view, I haven't found that many women who are attracted to me.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 28, 2020)

asp3 said:


> You've removed another bit of my ignorance, I hadn't heard the term totty before.
> 
> If so I'm completely unaware of it.  I am often clueless when someone is attracted to me so from my point of view, I haven't found that many women who are attracted to me.


You are too handsome for that to be true, in my humble opinion, unless the avatar is someone else's face, but it is possible, "like my good self perhaps, we're not aware how many are going weak at the knees" (?).   .

This thought crossed my mind, and it is how much a partner/wife expects to know about day to day stuff. I do find it mildly irritating when one of my so called mates seems to want to know everything going on in your life, (or thrives on gossiping about you even, "whilst keeping their own cards very close to their chest).

A sister in law, and her mother/family seem to thrive on knowing every detail about my brothers life, and his five children's lives, if you know what I mean?. Lovely kids though they are, and my brother knows how to look after himself, and is undoubtedly master in his own home, (to use an old fashioned term). Still I'm a bit uneasy about those who appear " to want to live in one another's pockets".

("Totty" btw is a word used to tease mainly or exclusively females, though being called "Top totty", was certainly meant to be an accolade back in the day )


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 28, 2020)

asp3 said:


> You've removed another bit of my ignorance, I hadn't heard the term totty before.
> 
> If so I'm completely unaware of it.  I am often clueless when someone is attracted to me so from my point of view, I haven't found that many women who are attracted to me.


I’m not attracted to you, nothing against you, of course.  I apparently prefer fat old bald man with nasty dispositions.


----------



## jerry old (Oct 28, 2020)

Amnesiac husbands seem to have an found an excellent method of dealing with marital problems.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 28, 2020)

jerry old said:


> Amnesiac husbands seem to have an found an excellent method of dealing with marital problems.


My husband refers to it as "alligator scales". 

Men just develop alligator scales... too tough to penetrate. LOL!


----------



## grahamg (Oct 28, 2020)

Is selective hearing a solution to the same problem?    .


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 28, 2020)

*What do women really want?*


All wimin?
Heck if I know
Heck, I don't think they even know
...and where the hell* is* heck, anyway?

What I do know, is wimin cannot be lumped into one 
Case in point;
Of the 105 posts since only yesterday, not too many are in agreement

Awhile back I wrote my thoughts here on wimin in general
Still pretty much think that way;

*Wimin

The most mysterious beings of our planet*

I found out long ago, about sixty years or so,
that gaining favor with the finer gender of our specie is not necessarily in my best interest.
Whole different frequency
Wired different
Fiber optic vs 9 gauge single conductor
Fascinating, mystical, attractive, you bet
Sensitivities I’d never remotely considered
But, hanging with a group of ladies?

Can’t

Mentally; exhausting

Socially; this ogre doesn’t stand a chance 

Spiritually; beyond any reach I may have thought I had

Physically; like looking into the sun, can go blind if obsessing too long

Gaining favor?
Whimsical touches
Nothing of depth
Any more than that and I find myself precariously dangling off a mental precipice

I can do one, maybe two per sitting
and that is mostly because they sense my discomfort to the point of putting forth effort to discuss what I’m interested in
I’ve learned to pick up on this and placate for a bit, then find a way to excuse myself

I don’t avoid ladies, but have learned not to seek them out
It’s what shops are for

I’ve been fortunate

My lady has put up with me for half a century

When I become too much and I (for some unknown reason) anger her,
I found placing my calloused hand on the small of her back will still cause her to flinch
….and she begrudgingly forgives me

We have had this tryst, this romance that has yet to fade

She’s plenty for me

Forever


So, here I remain
Baffled, yet attracted at the mysteries, complexities
A sentry
A defender
A protector
A willing grunt

Keeping the fire

best I can










“Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.” Emerson


----------



## grahamg (Oct 28, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> *What do women really want?*
> All wimin? Heck if I know
> Heck, I don't think they even know...and where the hell* is* heck, anyway?
> What I do know, is wimin cannot be lumped into one
> ...


What has kept you, beginning to wonder where you've been?    .

Never mind, here in full force, inimitable, indomitable, acuitive, pretty much exactly what a good many wimmin do really want I'd guess!    .


----------



## grahamg (Oct 28, 2020)

Here is another thought as far as "What women really want?" 

Are they getting it, or have I gone too far now...no wonder missus chose another, (and another, etc)?     .


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 28, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Never mind, here in full force, inimitable, indomitable, acuitive, pretty much exactly what a good many wimmin do really want I'd guess!


Grahammy, yer a lot of things, and now yer a charmer.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

Fascinating view of women, a generational thing perhaps? Some of my older male clients may ascribe to this point of view, in part, but definitely not the ones under fifty something. “Woman as an archetype,” could be quite the paper, very controversial, of course.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 29, 2020)

Actually I want the same things my Dad wanted -"a bit of peace and quiet and a fair go".


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Actually I want the same things my Dad wanted -"a bit of peace and quiet and a fair go".


Warri, what is a fair go, please?


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Warri, what is a fair go, please?


I'm sure our antipodean friend will answer for themselves, but my guess would be "someone prepared to meet you halfway", (that kind of equality might be good.  ).


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Fascinating view of women, a generational thing perhaps? Some of my older male clients may ascribe to this point of view, in part, but definitely not the ones under fifty something. “Woman as an archetype,” could be quite the paper, very controversial, of course.


I've done a bit of research, whilst the thread had a bit of a lull, (until Gary O's boost), and found a few comments in line with certainly many female members opinions, and a few male's views too on the forum, with what I suppose you'd call "mainstream expert opinion nowadays", (bit too boring to post I thought).

My favourite guru is Demond Morris, who at the age of ninety or so years, is still at it, (writing books I mean), and his latest book is " The naked man", I think its called. He gets slammed quite a lot these days for his views, can't tell you really why, but he does emphasise quite a lot the differences in perspective between the sexes, so maybe that's it(?).

Whatever anyone might think of Desmond's views, or the views of others, there is little enough doubt his views on divorce reform, or warnings about it way back in his first books studying human behaviour fifty years ago seem to have been borne out, and the chances those under fifties with their more youthful outlook will have marriages lasting as long as Mr &Mrs Morris did are not so great, and he described losing his wife last year as an amputation.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)

Australia term ‘Fair go!’
https://www.quora.com/What-do-Australians-mean-by-the-term-a-fair-go


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I've done a bit of research, whilst the thread had a bit of a lull, (until Gary O's boost), and found a few comments in line with certainly many female members opinions, and a few male's views too on the forum, with what I suppose you'd call "mainstream expert opinion nowadays", (bit too boring to post I thought).
> 
> My favourite guru is Demond Morris, who at the age of ninety or so years, is still at it, (writing books I mean), and his latest book is " The naked man", I think its called. He gets slammed quite a lot these days for his views, can't tell you really why, but he does emphasise quite a lot the differences in perspective between the sexes, so maybe that's it(?).
> 
> Whatever anyone might think of Desmond's views, or the views of others, there is little enough doubt his views on divorce reform, or warnings about it way back in his first books studying human behaviour fifty years ago seem to have been borne out, and the chances those under fifties with their more youthful outlook will have marriages lasting as long as Mr &Mrs Morris did are not so great, and he described losing his wife last year as an amputation.


Hmm, one thing comes to mind, for the younger people I support, their focus is more on maintaining healthy relationships rather than lauding length. That said, my millennial son has been with the same woman for seventeen years, and still going strong. They met while  at university


----------



## chic (Oct 29, 2020)

A man who is a prince,

a provider,

a defender,

a poet,

a lover,

a best friend,

honest,

nondemanding,

complimentary,

cooperative,

communicative,

supportive,

lavish with her,

solid,

dependable,

a soul mate.

What men want is probably similar but men of all ages equate physical expressions of love with that emotion itself and as any woman can tell you - dream on. Lust is lust while love is something deeper and while one can beget the other, it isn't always the outcome.

Peace - Chic.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

Interesting viewpoint re mainstream expert opinion being boring. Oh, that gave me a chuckle, thanks for that, work is very stressful at present. Teaching classes on stress management through Covid, as well as grief work, very rewarding, but definitely in the trenches raw emotion, and

draining. I am so impressed with some of my male students, many 50+, who have embraced learning new pathways to deal with emotions and communication. Lots of tears in this virtual class,  and it is lovely to see men and women supporting their own gender and the opposite sex as well. When

one  sees beneath the masks we all wear, and our true selves emerge, many  men and women are often more similar than than not. They/we yearn for peace, stability, health, a safe and decent livelihood, to belong somewhere, to be respected, heard, loved. Men and women often want the same things, but go about getting them quite differently.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

delete


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

I know this is frivolous, but, after reading some of the comments on this thread, I begin to envision women being perceived as a cross between mystical aliens, and creatures from the black lagoon. Lmao.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Warri, what is a fair go, please?


To be treated fairly, an even playing field at work and by the government. Not to be discriminated against. What most people want. It isn't too much to ask.



> a reasonable opportunity to do something
> Everyone in Australia has the right to a fair go, without discrimination.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> To be treated fairly, an even playing field at work and by the government. Not to be discriminated against. What most people want. It isn't too much to ask.


Thanks for clarifying that, no it certainly isn’t too much to ask.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> To be treated fairly, an even playing field at work and by the government. Not to be discriminated against. What most people want. It isn't too much to ask.


Not far from my assumption you meant "meet halfway"(?)   .


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Interesting viewpoint re mainstream expert opinion being boring. Oh, that gave me a chuckle, thanks for that, work is very stressful at present. Teaching classes on stress management through Covid, as well as grief work, very rewarding, but definitely in the trenches raw emotion, and
> draining. I am so impressed with some of my male students, many 50+, who have embraced learning new pathways to deal with emotions and communication. Lots of tears in this virtual class,  and it is lovely to see men and women supporting their own gender and the opposite sex as well. When one  sees beneath the masks we all wear, and our true selves emerge, many  men and women are often more similar than than not. They/we yearn for peace, stability, health, a safe and decent livelihood, to belong somewhere, to be respected, heard, loved. Men and women often want the same things, but go about getting them quite differently.


Well you did ask...........no I'll hang on before putting the boot into the thread with a load of expert speak, (my guru Desmond Morris is an expert too of course, but not flavour of the month for other experts by the look of it?).


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Apropos above discussion........


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)




----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

Hmmm, is this humour, or, perhaps baiting? Lol


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I'm sure our antipodean friend will answer for themselves, but my guess would be "someone prepared to meet you halfway", (that kind of equality might be good.  ).


“A fair go at it” as I understand the term does not mean that. But like any saying, especially older sayings, it can mean different things to different people. To me, it is not a good saying, not a good saying at all.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Hmmm, is this humour, or, perhaps baiting? Lol


It’s baiting.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 29, 2020)

I've never understood why some find this so mysterious.  
Women want what men want and what children want. What all humans crave.

We want to give and receive love, affection, kindness, support, encouragement, loyalty and respect.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I've never understood why some find this so mysterious.
> Women want what men want and what children want. What all humans crave.
> 
> We want to give and receive love, affection, kindness, support, encouragement, loyalty and respect.


Perhaps some people find solace in the concept of unassailable differences between the sexes. One way of possibly avoiding uncomfortable self examination, and, perish the thought,  the sort  of connection which requires vulnerability, communication, and a willingness to grow.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Perhaps some people find solace in the concept of unassailable differences between the sexes. One way of possibly avoiding uncomfortable self examination, and, perish the thought,  the sort  of connection which requires vulnerability, communication, and a willingness to grow.


Hmm, so how long have you known my husband


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Hmm, so how long have you known my husband


Shhhh, its a secret


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> It’s baiting.


If you think the cartoon I posted above is meant to bait anyone, I'm afraid I have to tell you I found it yesterday on a good friends social media contribution, and I think she thought it funny, simplz.

If on the other hand anyone has any difficulty "having their legs pulled" then I'd sggest there are organisations they might wish to avoid, like "Round table" (read "Buffaloes" in the US), where the one thing all members need is an ability to laugh at themselves, or be laughed at, whilst giving the same back to their mates.   .


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> If you think the cartoon I posted above is meant to bait anyone, I'm afraid I have to tell you I found it yesterday on a good friends social media contribution, and I think she thought it funny, simplz.
> 
> If on the other hand anyone has any difficulty "having their legs pulled" then I'd sggest there are organisations they might wish to avoid, like "Round table" (read "Buffaloes" in the US), where the one thing all members need is an ability to laugh at themselves, or be laughed at, whilst giving the same back to their mates.   .


Well, we are all allowed to think what we want and express our thoughts since we both live in free speech countries.  Then, there is a difference in the way UK women think and American woman think.  I don’t have a problem with humor and I’ll join any organization I want.

Having said that, It was baiting, which is fine, cause you got baited back.   Maybe, you should not join the “Round Table”.  .


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

Hmmm, Canucks are known for our self deprecating humour, but we calls it likes we sees it. For something as silly as this was, I don’t see the need for passive aggressive remarks. Funny how they seem to pop up in  this thread whenever women express an alternative viewpoint. Double standard in my book


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Perhaps some people find solace in the concept of unassailable differences between the sexes. One way of possibly avoiding uncomfortable self examination, and, perish the thought, the sort of connection which requires vulnerability, communication, and a willingness to grow


Sorry
Gotta argue with that
Min ar much much different than wimin
'Self examination' is BS
But, hey, it's a woman's opinion

I'll be in the shop
examining myself (HAH!)


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> Sorry
> Gotta argue with that
> Min ar much much different than wimin
> 'Self examination' is BS
> ...


We are all sure you will be.    You are a man who keeps his word.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> Sorry
> Gotta argue with that
> Min ar much much different than wimin
> 'Self examination' is BS
> ...


Hmm, regarding “ self examination is bs.” That is a standard mental health professional’s viewpoint, nothing to do with gender.


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Hmm, regarding “ self examination is bs.” That is a standard mental health professional’s viewpoint, nothing to do with gender.


Said the woman


Shalimar said:


> That is a standard mental health professional’s viewpoint


Well then, they should examine themselves

I'll be on the road today, but hope to pick this back up again tonight


----------



## rgp (Oct 29, 2020)

Don't know ........ Don't care.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 29, 2020)

rgp said:


> Don't know ........ Don't care.


Well that certainly adds quality content to the conversation.


----------



## ClassicRockr (Oct 29, 2020)

rgp said:


> Don't know ........ Don't care.



So, this being you've never had a girlfriend or married?


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> Said the woman
> 
> Well then, they should examine themselves
> 
> I'll be on the road today, but hope to pick this back up again tonight


My husband and I will be going shopping later when he gets up. Going to buy a round table, got to have a round table for everyone to join.  Already got the gloves and masks.  Lancelot is coming over.  He likes, well, to lance a lot. 

We can discuss, around the round table, how your self exam came out.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> Said the woman
> 
> Well then, they should examine themselves
> 
> I'll be on the road today, but hope to pick this back up again tonight


Well, I certainly didn’t expect this reaction. No problem with the difference in perspective, but the anger and insistence on diminishing my capabilities by invoking gender, well, no thanks. Obviously, you feel targeted by my earlier remarks. They were behavioural observations, not personal attacks. 

I am a therapist, it is what I do. We were friends, somehow, we ended up in this hurtful place? That grieves me, but I shall protect myself by utilising the ignore function. I am so relieved Philly never lived to see this. He would have been very distressed


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> I am a therapist, it is what I do. We were friends, somehow, we ended up in this hurtful place?


Just differences of opinion



Shalimar said:


> Well, I certainly didn’t expect this reaction. No problem with the difference in perspective, but the anger and insistence on diminishing my capabilities by invoking gender


No anger

Never would diminish a woman's capability....ever
There *IS* a difference in a woman's thinking...that's my opinion....my experience

Hey, I'm old
I tend to go with logic and experience



Shalimar said:


> I am so relieved Philly never lived to see this. He would have been very distressed


Philly and I would have talked.....in depth......in PMs
Him and I were like that
We could discuss anything.....everything


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, we are all allowed to think what we want and express our thoughts since we both live in free speech countries.  Then, there is a difference in the way UK women think and American woman think.  I don’t have a problem with humor and I’ll join any organization I want.
> Having said that, It was baiting, which is fine, cause you got baited back.   Maybe, you should not join the “Round Table”.  .


You'll have a problem joining the "Round table of Britain and Ireland" even were you to live here, (as would I now), or one of the sister groups around the globe with the exception of the USA, as I said before. I'll let you figure out why, if you wish of course(?).
No need to worry, plenty of other groups, maybe some with similar aims, friendship, charitable, improving international relations, etc., oh and having fun. !    .


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> You'll have a problem joining the "Round table of Britain and Ireland" even were you to live here, (as would I now), or one of the sister groups around the globe with the exception of the USA, as I said before. I'll let you figure out why, if you wish of course(?).
> No need to worry, plenty of other groups, maybe some with similar aims, friendship, charitable, improving international relations, etc., oh and having fun. !    .


Sister groups?  . You will let me?  Oh, gee, how generous of you.  . I am not worried.  I begin to see the problem.  Have you thought of therapy?  You really should.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Sister groups?  . You will let me?  Oh, gee, how generous of you.  . I am not worried.  I begin to see the problem.  Have you thought of therapy?  You really should.


Therapy is great, what is it you think I need therapy for again, not agreeing with those who think differently, (something like that or just general craziness?)?

You'll never know just how unfrequently I get described as "generous", so thanks for that, and yes we can have "sister groups", why not, I'm sure the name has no negative connotations this side of the pond anyway!    .


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Therapy is great, what is it you think I need therapy for again, not agreeing with those who think differently, (something like that or just general craziness?)?
> 
> You'll never know just how unfrequently I get described as "generous", so thanks for that, and yes we can have "sister groups", why not, I'm sure the name has no negative connotations this side of the pond anyway!    .


Well, if you go to therapy and take this conversation with you the therapist will explain it to you.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, if you go to therapy and take this conversation with you the therapist will explain it to you.


Do you know I might just not bother, (or at least wait for a second opinion from someone who appreciates my finer qualities, dontcha know ?).


----------



## Devi (Oct 29, 2020)

I'll answer the original question: *what do women really want?*

I want a red Ferrari and about 40 years off my age.
<sigh>


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 29, 2020)

We are not a stereotypical group.  We are individuals.  What I want is not necessarily the same as other women.  I don't want to take 40 years off of my age like Devi does.  I've earned my stripes.  I'm so glad I'm not young now.  Life on this planet is getting radically more impossible on all kinds of levels.  If I was young I'd have to live through it all.


----------



## Devi (Oct 29, 2020)

Okay, @Phoenix -- but the 40 years off my age was to go with the red Ferrari!


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 29, 2020)

Devi said:


> Okay, @Phoenix -- but the 40 years off my age was to go with the red Ferrari!


And with me, Devi, I'd be seeking the original 40 years off with a red Ferrari, PLUS... 40 pounds off!


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 29, 2020)

Devi said:


> Okay, @Phoenix -- but the 40 years off my age was to go with the red Ferrari!


Have fun.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> And with me, Devi, I'd be seeking the original 40 years off with a red Ferrari, PLUS... 40 pounds off!


I would settle for the 40 pounds off


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I would settle for the 40 pounds off


So would I! ROFLMAO!


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I would settle for the 40 pounds off


When I want to lose weight I cut down my portion sizes.  It works for me.  I'm from a long line of overweight women.  I made sure that did not become me.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)




----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

Phoenix said:


> When I want to lose weight I cut down my portion sizes.  It works for me.  I'm from a long line of overweight women.  I made sure that did not become me.


I did not


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 29, 2020)

Keesha said:


> View attachment 130887


Are you saying you're a train wreck?


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Do you know I might just not bother, (or at least wait for a second opinion from someone who appreciates my finer qualities, dontcha know ?).


I guess I will LET YOU not bother.  HINT! HINT!  I really don't care either way.  I don’t pull peoples legs, I pull their chains.  HINT! HINT!.


----------



## Mamanana (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Instead of "handle" read "manage", although it may not scan so well in the song, so whoever wrote it used a word to mean the same thing, (he /she didn't mean physically handle did they).
> 
> Anyone taking objection to the word probably meant quite innocently has fallen into a bit of a trap though, because if you listened to Bryn Terfel singing you'll know the last line is, " How to handle a woman, is to love her, simply love her",(and who doesn't want that, man or woman?).     .


Yes absolutely and if you’ve seen the film Camelot you’ll see how King Arthur is desperately trying to understand Queen Guinevere not manipulate her. One of my favourite films doesn’t upset my feminist outlook at all.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)

Phoenix said:


> Are you saying you're a train wreck?


No. I mean this entire thread is a train wreck


----------



## Pecos (Oct 29, 2020)

Well, I don't think that I understand men either, and I am one.

The flip side of this question might have actual answers on a scale that can be dealt with.
"What do women NOT want."

..... and I can't answer that one either, but I tend to believe that it would be a much shorter list.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Devi said:


> I'll answer the original question: *what do women really want?*
> 
> I want a red Ferrari and about 40 years off my age.
> <sigh>


Ferrari of any colour bit of an issue, but I'm sure I could tell you you're looking at least, well let's say a good many years younger than your passports states, (never have been very good guessing ages, and when asked to guess now my rule is say half the age you're thinking anyone might say when they were being "generous" too!    )


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Mamanana said:


> Yes absolutely and if you’ve seen the film Camelot you’ll see how King Arthur is desperately trying to understand Queen Guinevere not manipulate her. One of my favourite films doesn’t upset my feminist outlook at all.


You had me there for a moment,....yes, Bryn Terfel does sing a song about Camelot, or taken from the film, but its not the one provided in the link, so not all that relevant perhaps, (will have to check out the lyrics to the song about a "fairy story" to try to assess any biases apparent in it to the untrained eye. ).


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I guess I will LET YOU not bother.  HINT! HINT!  I really don't care either way.  I don’t pull peoples legs, I pull their chains.  HINT! HINT!.


Lost me there, (being funny let's hope.  ?).


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Lost me there, (being funny let's hope.  ?).


I agree, you might be a lost cause.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Perhaps some people find solace in the concept of unassailable differences between the sexes. One way of possibly avoiding uncomfortable self examination, and, perish the thought,  the sort  of connection which requires vulnerability, communication, and a willingness to grow.


You've made some remarks here that I've ignored, (so apologies for that).

You've told us you're a therapist, (because its what you do, hard to stop being one perhaps, even in your private life, should you wish to?).

I'm assuming you've not yet written books on human behaviour even though you've obviously studied it a lot during your training or professional life. If I'm right, then the, let's say controversial views of Desmond Morris, the author of a great many books on human behaviour in over fifty years of writing, perhaps deserve more consideration than simply saying he finds solace in them, but they're his professional opinion at least. He's the guru I choose to believe is very good, hence keep mentioning him, where he highlights differences between the sexes , (often emphasising superiority in females perhaps, in some aspects).

I agree self examination, or as I'd describe it "an awareness of your own flaws", is important yes, so we're in agreement there at least.  .


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I agree, you might be a lost cause.


Always on the attack, why is that do you think?     .


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Always on the attack, why is that do you think?     .


I agreed with you and you think that’s an attack?  You must be very isolated to want to continue this conversation.  Ask a woman friend or ex-wife and she will tell you what is wrong with what you wrote.  If you truly don’t know, but everyone else does.

Edited:  I actually think if I spell it out for you, in simple terms, you will claim you are insulted.  But, if you would like me to do so, I will.  But you have to ask. Can we be done now?


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Lost me there, (being funny let's hope.  ?).


She’s messing with you grahamg


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> You've made some remarks here that I've ignored, (so apologies for that).
> 
> You've told us you're a therapist, (because its what you do, hard to stop being one perhaps, even in your private life, should you wish to?).
> 
> ...





grahamg said:


> You've made some remarks here that I've ignored, (so apologies for that).
> 
> You've told us you're a therapist, (because its what you do, hard to stop being one perhaps, even in your private life, should you wish to?).
> 
> ...


My goodness, I didn’t realise that not writing books on human behaviour disqualified one from having a valid perspective? Lol.  Mr Morris sees things from an evolutionary perspective, whereas my focus is more cultural. Disagreement all but inevitable.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Oct 29, 2020)

Phoenix said:


> When I want to lose weight I cut down my portion sizes.  It works for me.  I'm from a long line of overweight women.  I made sure that did not become me.


6 babies helped push me over the edge. LOL!


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)

SIX???? And you enjoyed this?


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Keesha said:


> She’s messing with you grahamg


Hey, if you think that's the first time you've gotten me all wrong, "I went to a better school than that yu know!"
(do you think I'm completely innocent in that regard too?  )


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Hey, if you think that's the first time you've gotten me all wrong, "I went to a better school than that yu know!"
> (do you think I'm completely innocent in that regard too?  )


Okaaaayyyy!


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> My goodness, I didn’t realise that not writing books on human behaviour disqualified one from having a valid perspective? Lol.  Mr Morris sees things from an evolutionary perspective, whereas my focus is more cultural. Disagreement all but inevitable.


You dont have to recognise things from one perspective only, even if as a zoologist of some note, this was Desmond Morris's first speciality.

Why not have a go at writing a book, they say everyone's got at least one book in them?


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I agreed with you and you think that’s an attack?  You must be very isolated to want to continue this conversation.  Ask a woman friend or ex-wife and she will tell you what is wrong with what you wrote.  If you truly don’t know, but everyone else does.
> 
> Edited:  I actually think if I spell it out for you, in simple terms, you will claim you are insulted.  But, if you would like me to do so, I will.  But you have to ask. Can we be done now?


Spelling out in the simplist possible terms will do just fine by me, and if I am insulted I'll get over it pretty quick I promise  !   .


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

Your post #148 where you said “I’ll let you figure it out“.  Yet, even with the help of your guru, , who wrote many books you are unable to understand that YOU, @grahamg, do not have the right to let any adult do anything, female or male.

The last people “to let” me do something was my mother and my father.  Pretty sure you don’t ”let” other men “figure it out“.  Doing so would mean you would walk around a lot with a bag of frozen peas on your face.  Your language shows a remarkable and comfortable contempt and scorn for women, as if a woman were a small child that you “let” work things out.

Next a show of more contempt, disrespect,  and ignorance, towards woman, as you suggest a “sisters group”.  Little sisters joining other little sisters playing with their dollies.  .  I could join a group with mostly woman, a group with only men.  I could join any dang group I want in the USA.

I have no ideal what a sisters group is.  I have several half sisters, but we have never grouped up.  

Lastly, you said I “had no need to worry”.  Hmm.  Because, of course, big strong grahamg will take care of things?  . Oh, good god.  Read more books.  See a therapist.  Take a class.  Whatever.  We are done with this now.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)

SNAP!


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 29, 2020)

Atta girl, Aneeda. My reaction to men who make the mistake of seemingly granting me permission to do X, Y or Z is to arc up and ask "Who's going to stop me? Certainly not you."

Take note, Graham. Don't make that mistake more than once. It is definitely a case of fools rush in where wise men dare not go.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Your post #148 where you said “I’ll let you figure it out“.  Yet, even with the help of your guru, , who wrote many books you are unable to understand that YOU, @grahamg, do not have the right to let any adult do anything, female or male.
> The last people “to let” me do something was my mother and my father.  Pretty sure you don’t ”let” other men “figure it out“.  Doing so would mean you would walk around a lot with a bag of frozen peas on your face.  Your language shows a remarkable and comfortable contempt and scorn for women, as if a woman were a small child that you “let” work things out. Next a show of more contempt, disrespect,  and ignorance, towards woman, as you suggest a “sisters group”.  Little sisters joining other little sisters playing with their dollies.  . I could join a group with mostly woman, a group with only men. I could join any dang group I want in the USA. I have no ideal what a sisters group is. I have several half sisters, but we have never grouped up.  Lastly, you said I “had no need to worry”. Hmm. Because, of course, big strong grahamg will take care of things? . Oh, good god.  Read more books.  See a therapist.  Take a class.  Whatever.  We are done with this now.


I'll try to respond to each charge you make bit by bit as it were, and apologies if its in no particular order.
Calling another "Round table", in another European country, South American country, Australasian country, anywhere else in the world where "Round tables" have spread since they were first set up in Norwich during the 1930s by a guy called Louis Marchesi, a "sister organisation", has as far as I'm aware no negative connotations at all when using the queens English in my country. I could not say "brother organisation" because no one, including myself would have had a clue what it meant, period. Okay, has that cleared this up for you, not one iota of sexism in the use of that word "sister" in the circumstances I used it, (and you wonder why I needed it spelling out  ?)?
Secondly saying I will "let you figure something out for yourself" is something else you seem to have misinterpreted, or else means something completely different in the USA compared to the UK, because to me it simply means "I'm not going to explain myself", and doesn't in any way mean you must/should do anything. It was meant to indicate I was losing patience with the direction of our argument/discussion, as I am now, though not terribly so or I wouldn't be bothering to respond to you..
Saying "no need to worry", well who is making such a fuss here, and who is trying to diffuse the fuss?
You issue orders it appears to me when you've no idea who I am or what I'm about, and all I'm telling you in response is "please yourself, because this skin of mine has gotten pretty thick lately".
Finally you dont speak for "women", any more than I speak for "men", but the fact you think you might is interesting, because it is an arrogant idea, and maybe something Desmond Morris might have an insight into(?).


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Atta girl, Aneeda. My reaction to men who make the mistake of seemingly granting me permission to do X, Y or Z is to arc up and ask "Who's going to stop me? Certainly not you."
> Take note, Graham. Don't make that mistake more than once. It is definitely a case of fools rush in where wise men dare not go.


There are wise men facing danger every day, as well as us fools rushing in, but hey ho, "no one got killed did they"!    .


----------



## win231 (Oct 29, 2020)

Recently a _"Husband Super Store"_ opened where women could choose a husband from among many men. The store was laid out in five floors with the men increasing in positive attributes with each higher floor.
There were only two rules:
1. Once a door was opened, the woman HAD to choose a man from that floor.
2. If a woman went up a floor, she couldn't go back down except to leave the store & never return.

A couple of women went to the store to find husbands.
On the first floor, the door had a sign that read: _"These men have jobs & love kids."_
After reading the sign, the women said, "Well, that's OK but I wonder what's further up."

Second Floor - The sign read: "These men have high-paying jobs, love kids & are extremely good looking."
“Hmmmmm," said the ladies. "But I wonder what's further up."

Third Floor - The sign read: "These men have high-paying jobs, love kids, are extremely good looking & help with the housework."
"Wow," said the women. "Very tempting." But there was another floor, so up they went.

Fourth Floor - this door had a sign that read: "These men have high-paying jobs, love kids, are extremely good looking, help with the housework & are very romantic."
"Oh, mercy me," they cried. "Just think what must be awaiting us on the next floor!!" So up to the fifth floor they went.

Fifth Floor - the sign on that door said: _"This floor is empty & exists only to prove that women are impossible to please. The exit is on your left. Goodbye."_


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I'll try to respond to each charge you make bit by bit as it were, and apologies if its in no particular order.
> Calling another "Round table", in another European country, South American country, Australasian country, anywhere else in the world where "Round tables" have spread since they were first set up in Norwich during the 1930s by a guy called Louis Marchesi, a "sister organisation", has as far as I'm aware no negative connotations at all when using the queens English in my country. I could not say "brother organisation" because no one, including myself would have had a clue what it meant, period. Okay, has that cleared this up for you, not one iota of sexism in the use of that word "sister" in the circumstances I used it, (and you wonder why I needed it spelling out  ?)?
> Secondly saying I will "let you figure something out for yourself" is something else you seem to have misinterpreted, or else means something completely different in the USA compared to the UK, because to me it simply means "I'm not going to explain myself", and doesn't in any way mean you must/should do anything. It was meant to indicate I was losing patience with the direction of our argument/discussion, as I am now, though not terribly so or I wouldn't be bothering to respond to you..
> Saying "no need to worry", well who is making such a fuss here, and who is trying to diffuse the fuss?
> ...


As I said I am done.  Should I say it again?


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

win231 said:


> Recently a _"Husband Super Store"_ opened where women could choose a husband from among many men. The store was laid out in five floors with the men increasing in positive attributes with each higher floor.
> There were only two rules:
> 1. Once a door was opened, the woman HAD to choose a man from that floor.
> 2. If a woman went up a floor, she couldn't go back down except to leave the store & never return.
> ...


No where in your “joke” does it say “these men LOVE, RESPECT, and SUPPORT a women‘s right to choose what she wants.  I suppose that’s why the fifth floor was empty-the store found it impossible to give woman what they really wanted.  The store must have been owned by men.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)




----------



## Ruthanne (Oct 29, 2020)

I really don't know what All women want but lately I just want to be appreciated for who and what I am (not be put down), treated kindly, cared about, understood *if that's possible*, wanted.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

It is estimated that 2 to 4 million woman are assaulted by a domestic partner every year, physically abused, in the USA.  Over 12 million women will be abused in their lifetimes.  I believe the statistics for teenagers, young girls, and the under five age group are kept separate.

What do woman really want?

I WILL AND CAN SPEAK FOR ALL WOMEN.  I CAN DO ANYTHING I WANT.  If that makes me arrogant, then I am arrogant, as charged, and proud of it.

Women want to be safe.  Women want their children to be safe, their grandchildren safe, and their great grandchildren safe.  Women want themselves to be safe.  In fact, women want everyone to be safe.  Women want a safe world.  Women will not settle for less, and someday women will have safety.

It is easy to joke about such things.  It is easy to explain away the slights and digs.  We, women, have heard it all.  As in; I’ve been misunderstood, you don’t understand, you’ve misinterpreted my actions, you shouldn’t have made me mad, that’s not my baby, I am not responsible.  And on on and on and on.

Again, I find myself agreeing with @grahamg.  There are men and there are fools.  Women decide which is which.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> There are wise men facing danger every day, as well as us fools rushing in, but hey ho, "no one got killed did they"!    .


Shoudda quit while you were behind. No-one got killed on this forum but every day some woman or other is killed by an intimate partner or ex. 

 So far this year in Australia the count of dead woman killed by a partner stands at 39. We know this because there is a group of 'sisters' who are keeping count and keeping a record. Each year the number exceeds an average 1 death per week.



> https://www.facebook.com/notes/dest...wn-death-due-to-violence-ag/2815333238514402/
> 
> October 20: The body of Linda Greenwood (39) was found by neighbours in the driveway of a block of units in Como in the early hours of this morning. She had suffered "extensive wounds to her upper body". A man (unnamed) (39) who had been in an "on and off again" relationship with Ms Greenwood was arrested this morning and police say he is likely to be charged with murder. Police had recorded domestic incidents last year and there was an AVO (Apprehended Violence Order) managed by the parole board against the man for the deceased woman. https://tinyurl.com/y2c9c92q https://tinyurl.com/yyqwva9r
> 39
> ...



I don't reckon any of the dead women experienced much "peace and quiet" or a "fair go".

Again, I advise against blundering into the reality of women's lived experience, it is a minefield for men who have no idea how their words may trigger memories and emotions that the menfolk are never going to understand.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)

grahamg said:


> You'll have a problem joining the "Round table of Britain and Ireland" even were you to live here, (as would I now), or one of the sister groups around the globe with the exception of the USA, as I said before. I'll let you figure out why, if you wish of course(?).
> No need to worry, plenty of other groups, maybe some with similar aims, friendship, charitable, improving international relations, etc., oh and having fun. !    .


I didn’t even get this post and still haven’t a glue what he’s talking about but I never do. I was laughing at the joke about the man store being made by men. It was funny. Grahamgs admitted he likes stirring things up and he accomplished it.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 29, 2020)

He is referring obliquely to the Arthurian legend. It was never a reality. 
A round table is a symbol of equality because all places are the same unlike rectangular tables where the most important people sit at one end and everyone else is seated  down the table in order of status and importance.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> He is referring obliquely to the Arthurian legend. It was never a reality.
> A round table is a symbol of equality because all places are the same unlike rectangular tables where the most important people sit at one end and everyone else is seated  down the table in order of status and importance.


Except just men sat at that table, the round table.  .


----------



## fmdog44 (Oct 29, 2020)

The women I have known in my long life wanted two things ..............................sorry, I forgot what they were.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 29, 2020)

Keesha said:


> No. I mean this entire thread is a train wreck


I was just kidding around.  No harm intended.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 29, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> He is referring obliquely to the Arthurian legend. It was never a reality.
> A round table is a symbol of equality because all places are the same unlike rectangular tables where the most important people sit at one end and everyone else is seated  down the table in order of status and importance.


 Oh. I completely missed that. 
All I know is that Grahamg does this often. He enjoys fighting between the power of the sexes which usually results in ‘put downs’ regarding woman. It’s intentional so I no longer bite any more. He IS baiting us and always has. 


Phoenix said:


> I was just kidding around.  No harm intended.


Yes! It was my misunderstanding. My apologies.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

As I have some insight into Graham's mind I can tell you, those of you who are "not biting" or "done with the discussion", my idea in posting the OP was to have some fun, "humourous fun", as generations of men and women have done, emphasising or exaggerating the differences between the sexes. Hard to believe such a noble intent could do much harm to anyone, or if not noble, very mildly irreverent intent.

I've never hit a woman, I've been lucky enough to be the father of a daughter who has achieved pretty remarkable things in her life so far, having been married to a woman who told me, admittedly very quietly, (oh and once in church), she loved me and wanted my child. 

However, in spite of that record I can see how some women might wish to use my intended joke about no one getting killed in an argument, as justification for holding me as a man, responsible for those vio!ent men there certainly are out there. A good friend of mine, whose husband did use violence against her when he was serving in the British armed services, and she was in Malaysia as an army wife. She said something similar about all men being held responsible if one father has been guilty of harming their child. I'd suggest, as most men try to protect their children from anyone harming them, she might have been wrong there.

Other than that, what a thread hey, as what's his name, who was once married to Katy Perry said, after being castigated for publicly upsetting the father of a former girlfriend, and ended up losing a radio presenting job, and our prime minister condemning him and Jonathan Ross, who only witnessed the event, "I do worse things than that every day"!   (Russell Brand wasn't it) .


----------



## grahamg (Oct 29, 2020)

win231 said:


> Recently a _"Husband Super Store"_ opened where women could choose a husband from among many men. The store was laid out in five floors with the men increasing in positive attributes with each higher floor.
> There were only two rules:
> 1. Once a door was opened, the woman HAD to choose a man from that floor.
> 2. If a woman went up a floor, she couldn't go back down except to leave the store & never return.
> ...


Thank you for sharing this piece of harmless fun, surely the most hard hearted of women might have enjoyed, (and their self appointed spokesperson can even tell us now.  )


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 30, 2020)

grahamg said:


> As I have some insight into Graham's mind I can tell you, those of you who are "not biting" or "done with the discussion", my idea in posting the OP was to have some fun, "humourous fun", as generations of men and women have done, emphasising or exaggerating the differences between the sexes. Hard to believe such a noble intent could do much harm to anyone, or if not noble, very mildly irreverent intent.
> 
> I've never hit a woman, I've been lucky enough to be the father of a daughter who has achieved pretty remarkable things in her life so far, having been married to a woman who told me, admittedly very quietly, (oh and once in church), she loved me and wanted my child.
> 
> ...


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 30, 2020)

This blog is the only blog I am on.  Just like I only have one computer game.  But I have a TV in every room of my house except the kitchen .  I spend so little time in the kitchen.  Apparently, I truly want access to TV.  It’s why I can’t be homeless, no Comcast.

Someone mentioned the word troll to me, hmm, I looked the definition up.  An internet troll is someone who makes intentionally inflammatory, upsetting statements online to elicit emotional responses in people.  I didn’t think then, and don’t think now, that there are any trolls on this forum.  I could be wrong.  Not incorrect @Aunt Marg  just wrong.

Although, I could not find a site that compared the difference between an internet troll and an extremely ignorant human being who stubbornly clings to the outdated useless negative values and derogatory behaviors they learned in the 1950’s and earlier.  Such human beings can only achieve a sense of self worth and gain attention by poke, poke, poking at others.

Then I looked up what “trigging someone” means.  The definition “triggers are anything that might cause a person to recall a traumatic experience they’ve had”.  . So, trolls or certain ignorant human beings, deliberately, intentionally, and mindfully want to cause other human beings pain.

Nothing new there.

But I did reaffirm, via my internet searches, and combined with what I already knew, that no matter what you call them, some people are sometimes toxic; not all the time but sometimes.  My mother, while horrific to me, was a decent human being to my brother.

The toxic side of some people, IMO, must not be completely ignored, either on the forum or in real life.  When they spew their poison, a bucket must be provided.  But when they poke, poke, poke, like a 5 year old child, ignoring them is fine.  IMO.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 30, 2020)

I've had to do a bit of cut and pasting here, (hope you can follow it?):

Grahamg wrote in black, (Warrigal's comments she wrote in blue extracted and reposted below in itallics):

"As I have some insight into Graham's mind I can tell you, those of you who are "not biting" or "done with the discussion", my idea in posting the OP was to have some fun, "humourous fun", as generations of men and women have done, emphasising or exaggerating the differences between the sexes. Hard to believe such a noble intent could do much harm to anyone, or if not noble, very mildly irreverent intent.

I've never hit a woman, I've been lucky enough to be the father of a daughter who has achieved pretty remarkable things in her life so far, having been married to a woman who told me, admittedly very quietly, (oh and once in church), she loved me and wanted my child.

However, in spite of that record I can see how some women might wish to use my intended joke about no one getting killed in an argument, as justification for holding me as a man, responsible for those vio!ent men there certainly are out there.

A good friend of mine, whose husband did use violence against her when he was serving in the British armed services, and she was in Malaysia as an army wife. She said something similar about all men being held responsible if one father has been guilty of harming their child. I'd suggest, as most men try to protect their children from anyone harming them, she might have been wrong there.

Other than that, what a thread hey, as what's his name, who was once married to Katy Perry said, after being castigated for publicly upsetting the father of a former girlfriend, and ended up losing a radio presenting job, and our prime minister condemning him and Jonathan Ross, who only witnessed the event, "I do worse things than that every day"!

Warrigal wrote:
_"Let's not start exaggerating. No-one is accusing you of abusing women. All you have been accused of is a lack of understanding of why it is that some women have had experiences that you as a man can never have known and why they don't find your attempt at humour all that funny. You accidentally blundered into a minefield. I'm sure your wife and children are used to you by now but that is not the case for every woman on this forum.

You asked what women want and you have been schooled on that subject. We all want different things, for different reasons, just like our male counterparts. And we are sick of being demeaned. 

Have you ever thought that it is the responsibility of decent men to intervene to protect women who are not their own daughters? The standard we walk past Is the standard we accept."_

Grahamgs response to the above:
If I'd said someone has accused me of abusing anyone then your comments would have had a point, as it is I didn't, I just said a joke about "no one being killed" by our discussion/argument, had morphed into my somehow being insensitive towards those who have received violence at the hands of a partner/husband. You shouldn't assume that to be the case, I'm appalled such things happen, and when something of the kind happened to someone I know, I shunned the man concerned for thirty years, (then discovered there'd been some exaggeration in that case, but nonetheless I'm in no doubt the man was capable of violence, though he never came close to killing anyone, and in his own way cared for and provided for his four children, who btw he didn't hit).

We've covered the ground as to what women might want, and the shortcomings of the thread title and OP, but thanks for refreshing everyone's memory.   .

Your question about decent men protecting women who are not their daughters is an interesting one. I've a friend who did just that when he heard a man was assaulting his wife, by engineering a situation where the man thought he was making a play for the woman/wife concerned, and the man tried to fight my friend. There was only going to be one winner in that situation, but whether the man knew why he'd ben set up I dont know, (I think the police turned a blind eye, so maybe they understood?).

I do know this as far as men standing up for women, and it concerns an account given in a biography of Germaine Greer where a group of men at a party warned Germaine of the danger posed to her by a certain individual. She chose to ignore the warning and I think was assaulted when she allowed him to take her home, (or maybe worse?). Then these same men wanted to intervene on her behalf again when they discovered what had happened, but she declined their assistance, the author of this autobiography and account of what happened said, (a female friend of Germaine's at the time). Years later Germaine claimed no one had tried to help her, or no man had when she'd suffered this attack, (another case of selective hearing/memory perhaps?).

I do see bullying of all kinds around me, but have been unbelievably lucky so far not to be a victim at any time in my life, and had mates stick up for me and without question, saving my skin, I'm in no doubt at all. I'm lucky too, in having encountered very few women who have suffered. One other comes to mind, beyond the two I've mentioned already, and would you believe a policeman friend of the perpetrator assisted that man avoiding the full force of the law he should have faced, by convincing the woman not to press charges. I'm appalled by that situation as much as I'm sure any woman here is.


----------



## Keesha (Oct 30, 2020)

Not worth it.


----------



## rgp (Oct 30, 2020)

ClassicRockr said:


> So, this being you've never had a girlfriend or married?




 One wife [brief] and a handful of girlfriends over the the years.

 But I never sat around worrying about what they wanted. Pretty safe bet they never contemplated what I wanted either.


----------



## rgp (Oct 30, 2020)

IMO, that question can only be answered by women , and it is [again opinion] subject to each woman individually , because no one really knows what another [male or female] is thinking, or desires.

As such, I never gave it any thought.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 30, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I do know this as far as men standing up for women, and it concerns an account given in a biography of Germaine Greer where a group of men at a party warned Germaine of the danger posed to her by a certain individual. She chose to ignore the warning and I think was assaulted when she allowed him to take her home, (or maybe worse?). Then these same men wanted to intervene on her behalf again when they discovered what had happened, but she declined their assistance, the author of this autobiography and account of what happened said, (a female friend of Germaine's at the time). Years later Germaine claimed no one had tried to help her, or no man had when she'd suffered this attack, (another case of selective hearing/memory perhaps?).



Interesting that you mention Germaine Greer. I don't suppose that you have read any of her published work. Have you read the biography that outlines the assault she is supposed to have suffered after being warned, a warning she foolishly ignored? I cannot find reference to such a book.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 30, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Interesting that you mention Germaine Greer. I don't suppose that you have read any of her published work. Have you read the biography that outlines the assault she is supposed to have suffered after being warned, a warning she foolishly ignored? I cannot find reference to such a book.


Yes I've read it as I said, quite a few years ago though, so I'm unable to give you an authors name straight away.

...Just checked and I think there may be two possible candidates, and the most likely is the Christine Wallace one(?)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/greer-savages-dung-beetle-biographer-1241706.html

....And there is yet another one, but I'd probably stick with the one I mentioned above as the likeliest to contain the account I mentioned, (as Christine Wallace managed to get Germaine Greer's mother Peggy to cooperate, and there was quite a lot of detail about the family, especially Germaine's hostility as a young girl towards her father, when he returned from seven years away fighting in WWII in Europe, and was a changed or traumatised man perhaps) :

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...life-of-germaine-greer-by-elizabeth-kleinhenz

One last one, again probably not the one I read, and maybe stuck behind  paywall:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n20/mary-beard/the-greer-method


----------



## grahamg (Oct 30, 2020)

rgp said:


> IMO, that question can only be answered by women , and it is [again opinion] subject to each woman individually , because no one really knows what another [male or female] is thinking, or desires.
> As such, I never gave it any thought.


You never met my father obviously, but would you believe it he used to tell us children we should "read his mind", (maybe so we eased up on the darn fool questions?).

I think some individuals are blessed, (or cursed perhaps), by having deep insights into the behaviour of others, but I'd agree with you if you said they're rare(?).
(your post amused me btw)


----------



## rgp (Oct 30, 2020)

grahamg said:


> You never met my father obviously, but would you believe it he used to tell us children we should "read his mind", (maybe so we eased up on the darn fool questions?).
> 
> I think some individuals are blessed, (or cursed perhaps), by having deep insights into the behaviour of others, but I'd agree with you if you said they're rare(?).
> (your post amused me btw)




  You're likely correct on a few points.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 30, 2020)

Desmond Morris has suggested things would be much better if women ran the world apparently, (dont they already?).

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2007/dec/18/scienceandnature.science


----------



## grahamg (Oct 31, 2020)

As this came up, or I brought it up earlier in the thread, here are the aims of the organisation I mentioned:

*Aims and Objects Of Round Table*

1. To develop the aquaintance of young men throughout the medium of their various occupations

2. To emphasise the fact that one's calling offers an excellent medium of service in the community

3. To cultivate the highest ideals in business, professional and civic traditions

4. To recognise the worthiness of all legitimate occupations and dignity each his own by precept and example

5. To further establishment of peace and goodwill in international relations

6. To further these objects by meetings, lectures, discussions and other activities.

Here are some details taken from one particular Round Table website:
*"Read the 10 reasons people give for not giving the Round Table a go, along with the real story behind the myths.*
*Aren’t you a secret society like the Free Masons?*

No, we are not a secret club. The Round Table movement is very open – for example, you quite often see things in the press about Round Table, and at no point are you asked to keep your Round Table activities secret.

*I am very busy and Round Table appears too time-consuming?*

Round Table clubs meet twice a month with other events linked into annual calendars. It is entirely down to you how much you put in, and like everything in life, the more you enjoy it the more you want to do it.

*I thought it was a club just for businessmen and I’m not in business?*

Members of Round Table are drawn from a wide range of occupations, not just businessmen.

*Isn’t Round Table a fundraising organisation; I wouldn’t enjoy rattling cans on street corners?*

Members often get involved with their local communities, helping people who are less fortunate than themselves, and supporting voluntary organisations. However, it’s as much about giving time and skills as fundraising, and whatever clubs do, it’s always about having fun!

*It appears to be an old-fashioned organisation that meets in pubs and two-star hotels?*

The Round Table is all about trying new experiences you wouldn’t otherwise have taken part in, with friends you wouldn’t otherwise have met. You can learn new skills, put something back into the community and it’s not just a local, but a worldwide club. We don’t think there’s anything old fashioned about that! Oh, and we’ve yet to meet a Round Table member who doesn’t enjoy the odd night down the pub!

*It appears to be only for middle-aged, middle-class men?*

Members of Round Table can be from 18 to age 45 and are drawn from all sorts of occupations, social and ethnic groups, and backgrounds. It’s this diversity that makes the Round Table experience so valuable.

*It must be pretty expensive to be a member of a club with so much to offer?*

Membership is less than bottle of beer a week and that often includes a few events and meals. Can’t say fairer than that!

*I would not be comfortable joining an organisation where you have to wear stripy jackets and regalia.*

There’s no Round Table “uniform”. Some tables choose to wear regalia and jackets for very formal events, but each club can decide how formal or informal they want to be. It’s up to the members, so the key is finding a club that fits your needs.

*I think that an all male organisation is inappropriate in this day and age; I like to do things that also involve my partner and children.*

Local Round Tables often do many events that involve partners, kids and the wider family. Like before, it’s a case of finding a club that fits your lifestyle, and if your wife or partner is interested in getting involved, *we have a sister organisation called Ladies Circle.*"

http://www.rt55.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=56

In order to clarify the use of English above, here is a dictionary definition:
_"A *sister organization* is an agency or body which is nearly or completely dependent upon another *organization* to exist. *Sister organizations* may exist in several different fields from business, government, law enforcement, and within the military."_


----------



## grahamg (Oct 31, 2020)

Anyone who has followed this thread in any way recently will be aware a few ideas have been thrown up concerning various matters, you could perhaps lump under the heading "our responsibilties towards our fellow men, (/women)".

Common terminology for this is possibly, "Am I my brother's keeper?" (Quote: "By being *your* 'bother's/*sister's keeper*' you are taking a responsibility in their life"). 

I guess when you approach a court when you wish to assert some right or other, you hope or have some faith at least in a system whereby whoever hears the case, will try to weigh the evidence fairly. This maybe involves a level of others, or those in position of responsibility trying to act as someone's keeper(?) 

I'm not sure whether I'll change my behaviour because I've been challenged as to whether I'd intervene to help another being abused or assaulted, (I hope I'd try to say something if I thought it might help I guess, though whether I'd go further I'm not sure to say put myself in peril, but I would certainly inform the authorities in a serious case)?


----------



## grahamg (Nov 1, 2020)

I found this on another site recently, although I'm not sure how relevant it is, but it might amuse a few people, and contains some old, homespun advice:


----------



## grahamg (Dec 23, 2020)




----------



## StarSong (Dec 23, 2020)

Gee, Graham, it's a complete surprise that women aren't lined up at your doorstep, pandemic or no pandemic.


----------



## grahamg (Dec 23, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Gee, Graham, it's a complete surprise that women aren't lined up at your doorstep, pandemic or no pandemic.


How do you know they are not, (are you having me watched......lockdown paranoia setting in again), and in any case I wouldn't know what to do with one these days, "whether she's got good pins or not", (btw glad you could take the joke, not mine but posted by a US friend of mine from "elsewhere", and I found it too funny not to share here  ).


----------



## Brookswood (Dec 28, 2020)

I did take some ballroom dance lessons because it’s the only time I can approach a woman I don’t know, take her in my arms, tell her what to do, and she is more than happy to comply.  So I guess they want to dance.


----------



## MarciKS (Dec 28, 2020)

This is the problem...men think we all want the same things. However that is not true. I would think by now after billions of years they'd know that we are fickle creatures and tough to figure out. The best way would be to ask the one you're interested in...say hey what is it you want? Most women would tell you I would think. Unless they're feeling particularly cruel and want to make you figure it out for yourself.


----------



## grahamg (Dec 28, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> This is the problem...men think we all want the same things. However that is not true. I would think by now after billions of years they'd know that we are fickle creatures and tough to figure out. The best way would be to ask the one you're interested in...say hey what is it you want? Most women would tell you I would think. Unless they're feeling particularly cruel and want to make you figure it out for yourself.


Fickle you say, and yet an open book to another woman or your good self you suggest(?).


----------



## MarciKS (Dec 28, 2020)

say what? let's pretend you live in the usa graham...give it to me in english instead of this romeo and juliet shakespearian speak.


----------



## grahamg (Dec 28, 2020)

Brookswood said:


> I did take some ballroom dance lessons because it’s the only time I can approach a woman I don’t know, take her in my arms, tell her what to do, and she is more than happy to comply.  So I guess they want to dance.


Old time ballroom dancing does have much to commend it, though as far as who is in control sometimes, when I don't know the steps for example, I'm relieved when they fill in my lack of knowledge by telling me what I should be doing.
In salsa dancing classes however, the instructors sometimes ask the men to try to take the woman's role, and be lead by his partner. I admit I find it almost impossible to be lead anywhere, and that is ironic really, as I'm sure I'm not the "one in a 100 men who is a leader, (of men), but one of the 99 who is a follower of women"!


----------



## grahamg (Dec 28, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> say what? let's pretend you live in the usa graham...give it to me in english instead of this romeo and juliet shakespearian speak.


I'll give it a go, in ma best imtation aw midwest merican! 
Ya thunk us dollards aint no clue as ti wots in wimins minds!
Ah reckin yous exaggeratin an dumb as a mule as with might be wi nows thas down reet ornerie soma da time.
(how did I do??)


----------



## MarciKS (Dec 28, 2020)

omg!


----------



## grahamg (Dec 28, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I'll give it a go, in ma best imtation aw midwest merican!
> Ya thunk us dollards aint no clue as ti wots in wimins minds!
> Ah reckin yous exaggeratin an dumb as a mule as with might be wi nows thas down reet ornerie soma da time.
> (how did I do??)


Ya dig tha sista?


----------



## grahamg (Jan 1, 2021)

You've got to say haven't you......(remember this joke has little or nothing to do with me, and was found "elsewhere" being brought to my attention by someone colloquially known as "The shadow" famous adversary of Dick Barton, or Marvel comics villain maybe?):


----------



## grahamg (Jan 1, 2021)

Just in case someone is offended by the above joke I heard this one slanted the other way last night on the radio:

Woman goes into police station and says, "Officer, my husband and dog have gone missing, reward offered for return of dog!".


----------



## rgp (Jan 1, 2021)

I never gave it more than a second's thought. It is not my job to make them happy.

I keep myself happy, which makes me a more pleasant person. If that is not enough to make her want to be near me ? Well then the same door that let her in ... will let her out.


----------



## grahamg (Jan 1, 2021)

rgp said:


> I never gave it more than a second's thought. It is not my job to make them happy.
> 
> I keep myself happy, which makes me a more pleasant person. If that is not enough to make her want to be near me ? Well then the same door that let her in ... will let her out.


Some might argue it may sometimes be your job to make a partner happy, but at the same time your obvious strength of character does shine through, and this may well help a partner feel happy and secure, (my brother btw, whose marriage has lasted thirty years and counting, did tell his wife it was her job to make him happy, and in return he would be better to live with, so she'd get the happiness back in her own life).


----------



## Kathleen’s Place (Jan 1, 2021)

I only know what I wanted...a man that would make me happy, be there for me during the bad times, supportive of me, a wicked sense of humor, a hard worker, of good moral character, a good father to our children, someone who liked some of the same things I did, and someone I would be grateful to have in my life. I found him. He’s my husband, best friend all rolled into one. 52 years later, not one regret   I have never been a “I am woman, hear me roar,” burn my bra type person. It’s probably my age, but I loved having someone taking care of me, and I’ve loved taking care of him. So I’m as perplexed as anyone else about what women really want these days.


----------



## grahamg (Jan 2, 2021)

I think I might have said in the OP that this thread was intended to be lighthearted and mostly it has been pretty much just that, with one or two instances where forum members took issue with something perhaps, indicating that there are more serious sides to the topic.

Without getting too heavy now I do want to give you one example, or at the very least one example of my own extreme foolishness, in being unable to realise what is really being said in the lyrics of  a beautiful song by Nina Simone, entitled "You can have him".

I've listened to the song at least twenty times, its on one of my favourite albums and yet believe it or not I thought before today that it was a song about a woman glad to see the back of her man. I doubt one woman hearing the same song, or listening to the same lyrics was taken in as I freely admit I was, simple soul that I am/must be.

Here is the song for everyone to enjoy, and I'll post the lyrics separately later:


----------



## grahamg (Jan 2, 2021)

*"YOU CAN HAVE HIM"*

Lyrics
I don't want him you can have him
He's not worth fighting for
Besides there's plenty more where he came from
I don't want him you can have him
I'm giving him the sack
And he can go right back where he came from
I'm afraid I never loved him
Sweetie he'd be better off with you
I could never make him happy

All I ever wanted to do was
Run my fingers through his curly locks
Mend his underwear and darn his socks
Fetch his slippers and remove his shoes
Wipe his glasses when he's read the news
Rub his forehead with a gentle touch
Mornings after when he's had a little too much
Kiss him gently when he cuddles near
And give him babies one for every year

So you see that I don't want him you can have him
You can have him 'cause I don't want him
Because he's not the man for me
Then I'd close the window while he soundly slept
Then I'd raid the icebox where the food is kept
I'd fix the breakfast that would please him most
Eggs and coffee some apricot juice and some buttered toast
Oh oh then I'd go out and buy the papers
And when they've been read spend the balance of the day in bed

So you see that I don't want him you can have him
You can have him 'cause I don't want him because he's not my man
I don't want him you can have him
You can have him I don't want him
You can have him I don't want him
'Cause he's not the man for me.


----------



## grahamg (Jan 2, 2021)

Here is a website where the meaning of the above song is explained for those of us who need it:

https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/115598/

And some more details here about the writer of "You can have him"
https://shirleybassey.wordpress.com/2019/06/24/you-can-have-him-2/

Quote:
"This song is from the musical “Miss Liberty”. Premiere was Friday, July 15, 1949 at the Imperial Theater, New York. This song has been sung also by other artists like for example Ella Fitzgerald, Nina Simone and Doris Day.

Irving Berlin was born in Russia 1888. He was the most successful songwriter of the 20th century. Though he spent the better part of his career writing songs to be used in Broadway musicals (usually both words and music), he is better remembered for the songs themselves than for the shows (and sometimes films) in which they were introduced. He did not read music and could play the piano in only one key and only on the black notes – he used a special piano with a lever that changed keys for him and employed a musical secretary to notate his compositions. He had his first major success 1911 and wrote more than a thousand songs until he retired 1962 (died 1989). Berlin has been his own song publisher and built and owned a Broadway theatre, the “Music Box”, to house his shows. One of the most famous musicals he wrote is “Annie Get Your Gun” from 1946."


----------



## senior chef (Oct 12, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> I, for one, object to being “handled” at all. It is a paternalistic term, and condescending.


Then I suggest that you stay off cruise ships. If it should hit something, and start sinking, it will be "women and children first".  Of course you could always stay on board the ship and drown with the men.


----------



## grahamg (Oct 12, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Then I suggest that you stay off cruise ships. If it should hit something, and start sinking, it will be "women and children first".  Of course you could always stay on board the ship and drown with the men.


Lest the man dresses up as a woman, (according to the film Titanic!), then again what might happen these days with "equality", and "Wokeness" being dominant culturally is an open question perhaps(?).


----------

