# False memories, delusions, lies, temper tantrums & outbursts



## WhatInThe (Oct 27, 2019)

Know someone with a multitude of issues who always had a mean and uppity demeanor now telling lies or delusional, throwing child like temper tantrums along with flat out forgetting things(or faking it). They've always been a bit manipulative but their primary victims/enablers who caved to their demands are now gone. Now they are a walking time bomb on those left.

Read where dementia can lead to or show as anger, false claims, lies delusions, forgetfulness etc. Anything to that?


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## Judycat (Oct 27, 2019)

I have six cats like that. Drive me nuts.


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## WhatInThe (Oct 27, 2019)

Judycat said:


> I have six cats like that. Drive me nuts.


Instead of shelter this person needs to be put in a home and put down in a bed with arm straps.


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## Pepper (Oct 27, 2019)

Know someone..............Yes, I do, but we're not allowed to discuss politics here.


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## Judycat (Oct 27, 2019)

They need to be deemed a danger to themselves and others. Even then some    keep getting mulligans for their behavior.


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## WhatInThe (Oct 27, 2019)

Judycat said:


> They need to be deemed a danger to themselves and others. Even then some    keep getting mulligans for their behavior.



They've had local agencies out and are do for a follow up visit. I'm hoping the issue will resolve itself. I would feel kind of snitchish if I turned them in although still a possibility if their behavior keeps up. They were always attention seeking and dramatic but now all their stories portray themselves as the victim when they're their own worst enemy. Nothing is ever their fault.


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## Keesha (Oct 30, 2019)

Yes! Highly narcissistic seniors reaching dementia start falling apart and they will either retreat in or lash out once they realize the world which they ruled is getting smaller and their rights are getting taken away. 

Seniors who had a pretentious personality might start to come undone. They start forgetting their lies  so the stories they have told themselves and others their entire lives start falling apart and skeletons start flying out of the closets. 

It’s estimated that at least 30% of seniors reaching stages of dementia get aggressive, couple this with that fact that they could also be having small little strokes which also greatly affects their cognitive behaviour as well as moods. 

Moods can drastically change after mini strokes and quite often these strokes aren’t even noticed as happening, making these personality changes somewhat mysterious. 

Some people are alcoholics who have relied on the substance to keep them going. Some people need to be sedated with drugs once they get weaned off their addiction. 

Some seniors are on mood stabilizers and once dementia sets in, start forgetting their medication. 
There are many things that can cause a person’s personality to suddenly change.


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## Keesha (Oct 30, 2019)

WhatInThe said:


> Instead of shelter this person needs to be put in a home and put down in a bed with arm straps.



You could pay a fee to have them assessed by a qualified assessor. Once they have been assessed they might be taken away to either a nursing home or mental facility depending on the situation.


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## Butterfly (Oct 30, 2019)

WhatInThe said:


> Know someone with a multitude of issues who always had a mean and uppity demeanor now telling lies or delusional, throwing child like temper tantrums along with flat out forgetting things(or faking it). They've always been a bit manipulative but their primary victims/enablers who caved to their demands are now gone. Now they are a walking time bomb on those left.
> 
> Read where dementia can lead to or show as anger, false claims, lies delusions, forgetfulness etc. Anything to that?



OR maybe the person is just a pissed off narcissist who doesn't have anybody to pick on anymore.  I worked for an extreme narcissist who behaved in much the manner you are describing.  The false or made-up recollections of events or what was said or what I was told to do made me start sending e-mails confirming that I had been told to do X or Y and keep hard copies of outgoing and incoming e-mails from this person.  I left when I could no longer tolerate the toxic work environment.


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## jujube (Oct 30, 2019)

My brother-in-law's mother had "multi-infarct dementia".  It wasn't pretty.  I kept an eye on her for a while until it got too bad and then she had to go into a home.


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## AnnieA (Oct 30, 2019)

My narcissistic personality disordered grandmother behaved in a similar way as she aged.  But as Keesha rightly pointed out, dementia and strokes can cause similar symptoms.   And it may be a combination of issues, both personality disorder and physical brain changes.


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## Victor (Nov 2, 2019)

In some very serious cases, the people have a brain disease that enables them to have very bizarre
beliefs, and otherwise they are normal.  According to a neurologist,
 a woman, long ago, actually thought that
her arm belonged to her brother. It is an uncontrollable disease of neurons.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Nov 2, 2019)

There is a stage of dementia where they become combative,abusive(both verbally and physically) and violent.
I have often thought if they are still cognizant enough to realize these changes are occuring and have absolutely no way of channeling them other than lashing out in the above ways.


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## gennie (Nov 17, 2019)

WhatInThe said:


> Know someone with a multitude of issues who always had a mean and uppity demeanor now telling lies or delusional, throwing child like temper tantrums along with flat out forgetting things(or faking it). They've always been a bit manipulative but their primary victims/enablers who caved to their demands are now gone. Now they are a walking time bomb on those left.
> 
> Read where dementia can lead to or show as anger, false claims, lies delusions, forgetfulness etc. Anything to that?



Yes, they are all early on-set of dementia and alzheimers


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## Suzy623 (Nov 26, 2019)

Dementia is a pretty good guess but I've been reading quite a lot recently about UTI's and the personality changes they can present in both elderly males and females. Some of the symptoms are similar to those of dementia and are often overlooked in a person with dementia. My mother had several rounds of UTI's and there was a noticeable change in her personality during those periods. Your friend could also be checked for a UTI; it could cause his obvious obnoxious behavior to have become worse. Just a thought.


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## Lara (Nov 26, 2019)

That's really interesting Suzy. I don't know anyone like that but awareness is good to have. I didn't even know men get UTIs..."often in elderly men" according to Harvard Health Publication..."But UTIs produce more subtle signs even when common symptoms don't emerge. "In older adults, there may be a sudden change in mental status or behavior, such as confusion or agitation, fatigue, and loss of appetite," says Dr. Salamon.

Alcohol abuse at any age can also cause similar symptoms of "a walking time bomb" in some alcoholics. So sad.


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## Mike (Nov 26, 2019)

Lara said:


> That's really interesting Suzy. I don't know anyone like that but awareness is good to have. I didn't even know men get UTIs..."often in elderly men" according to Harvard Health Publication..."But UTIs produce more subtle signs even when common symptoms don't emerge. "In older adults, there may be a sudden change in mental status or behavior, such as confusion or agitation, fatigue, and loss of appetite," says Dr. Salamon.
> 
> Alcohol abuse at any age can also cause similar symptoms of "a walking time bomb" in some alcoholics. So sad.


What is a UTI in America Lara?

Over here it is a "Urinary Tract Infection".

Mike.


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## Keesha (Nov 26, 2019)

Yes I’m also curious what you mean by UTI. I only know it as urinary track infection.


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## Keesha (Nov 26, 2019)

Lara said:


> Alcohol abuse at any age can also cause similar symptoms of "a walking time bomb" in some alcoholics. So sad.


Yes. So true.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Nov 26, 2019)

WhatInThe said:


> Know someone with a multitude of issues who always had a mean and uppity demeanor now telling lies or delusional, throwing child like temper tantrums along with flat out forgetting things(or faking it). They've always been a bit manipulative but their primary victims/enablers who caved to their demands are now gone. Now they are a walking time bomb on those left.
> 
> Read where dementia can lead to or show as anger, false claims, lies delusions, forgetfulness etc. Anything to that?


Yeah. EVERYTHING to that.


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## toffee (Nov 26, 2019)

all very sad and frightening


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## RadishRose (Nov 26, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Yes I’m also curious what you mean by UTI. I only know it as urinary track infection.


Yes, it stands for Urinary Tract Infection


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## WhatInThe (Nov 26, 2019)

Lara said:


> That's really interesting Suzy. I don't know anyone like that but awareness is good to have. I didn't even know men get UTIs..."often in elderly men" according to Harvard Health Publication..."But UTIs produce more subtle signs even when common symptoms don't emerge. "In older adults, there may be a sudden change in mental status or behavior, such as confusion or agitation, fatigue, and loss of appetite," says Dr. Salamon.
> 
> Alcohol abuse at any age can also cause similar symptoms of "a walking time bomb" in some alcoholics. So sad.



I've heard the UTI thing before as well. But here like I said this person was not always a people person to say the least. Also she was prescription pain killers for over a decade and I'm wondering if that made existing issues worse. This person thinks they have kidney trouble. A self diagnoser that fails to act on their own determination what is yet another issue.

And absolutely yes many alcoholics are a walking time bomb. I don't believe it's all the chemical either. Many addicts and alcoholics are acting on impluse because the substance lowers impulse control so thoughts that would be just 'a' thought turn into action via outbursts and tirades. 

The person in the op has wine & alcohol in their cabinets yet doesn't entertain. They keep it 'just in case' or 'it was from a previous visit'.


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## DaveA (Nov 26, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Yes! Highly narcissistic seniors reaching dementia start falling apart and they will either retreat in or lash out once they realize the world which they ruled is getting smaller and their rights are getting taken away.
> 
> Seniors who had a pretentious personality might start to come undone. They start forgetting their lies  so the stories they have told themselves and others their entire lives start falling apart and skeletons start flying out of the closets.
> 
> ...



Holy s**t, Keesha.  I'm 85 and struggling to figure out where I am on your list??


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2019)

Urinalyses are the most frequently ordered labs in the long-term facilities I work precisely because of the discussions above.  They can really do a number behaviorally and mentally on the elderly, and in dementia cases, the person often can no longer report symptoms such as burning upon urination.


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## Keesha (Nov 26, 2019)

DaveA said:


> Holy s**t, Keesha.  I'm 85 and struggling to figure out where I am on your list??


While you are joking it’s not for me to decide
This was written from first hand experience while dealing with personal relatives. Information was taken from the doctors and nurses treating them as well as personal support workers and nursing home owners and workers. The information was gathered over  an intense 6 month period.

If you’ve never had to deal with a narcissist on a personal level, then you may not have a clue what I’m talking about but people who have or do , know exactly what I’m talking about.

Two years ago we were told from the professionals caring for these people part time that existing mental disorders usually get amplified as dementia sets in. This was the case with these folks so that part was true.

A stroke can speed up a type of dementia called vascular dementia which is what happened in this case. After the stroke outburst of violence against hospital staff workers happened where sedation was needed. Snapping at family members or anyone trying to help became the norm but this was from someone with an existing aggressive personality.

Apparently in some forms of dementia, some with angelic personalities can suddenly become aggressive. Thirty percent of the population of seniors will become aggressive according to statistics. Even members on this forum trying to care for their own family members are currently dealing with this type of thing.

Strokes lead to brain damage which can quickly deem a loved one incapacitated and its heart breaking staring into the eyes of someone you care about watching their mind diminish and not have the resources to help them. 

When seniors still think they can drive yet their license has been revoked due to strokes and incapacity,  if they had the keys, they would be driving. That’s dangerous to all. 

According to authorities taking the keys is the right thing to do to prevent someone from harming them self or others when they otherwise don’t know. You can show them the letters revoking the license but they don’t care. In their mind they know they can still drive. This can become a hostile situation depending on the personality and it’s common.

Throw in alcoholism and it can be a complete nightmare. There’s absolutely nothing funny about this. Delusions, temper tantrums, cursing, aggressive outbursts..... you bet and there is NOTHING funny about it.


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## Butterfly (Nov 26, 2019)

Keesha said:


> While you are joking it’s not for me to decide
> This was written from first hand experience while dealing with personal relatives. Information was taken from the doctors and nurses treating them as well as personal support workers and nursing home owners and workers. The information was gathered over  an intense 6 month period.
> 
> If you’ve never had to deal with a narcissist on a personal level, then you may not have a clue what I’m talking about but people who have or do know exactly what I’m talking about.
> ...




Keesha,I've dealt with people like this and you are right -- there is absolutely nothing whatsoever funny about it.  Heatbreaking, yes.  Terrifying, dangerous, yes.  Funny, never.


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## StarSong (Nov 26, 2019)

UTIs can definitely mimic severe dementia.  Saw it with my mother and mother-in-law, several times each. 

There have been several studies showing links between animal products (particularly poultry) and UTIs.  

Let the buyer and eater beware.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2019)

StarSong said:


> UTIs can definitely mimic severe dementia.  Saw it with my mother and mother-in-law, several times each.
> 
> There have been several studies showing links between animal products (particularly poultry) and UTIs.
> 
> Let the buyer and eater beware.



That's interesting! Do you recall if the studies differentiated between animals given hormones, antibiotics and force fed grains in cages?


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## StarSong (Nov 26, 2019)

Don't know if the nuances have been teased out, but there's lots of info on the web about it.  

Anecdotally I can report that since stopping eating meat completely (and 95% of dairy) I haven't had a single UTI, and I formerly got at least one a year. Don't miss meat and definitely don't miss UTIs.


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## treeguy64 (Nov 26, 2019)

Someone very close to me is, increasingly, rewriting short-term, personal history, on the fly. At first, I thought this person was simply doing a little tap dancing around events in the immediate past as a way to avoid blame, make things look better than they were, etc. Then, I had another one of my 4 AM revelations: This person isn't making things up for any exculpatory reasons. Rather, this person actually believes things happened the way this person relates them to me and others. I am worried that I may be a witness to the first step into dementia, for this person.  I will start keeping a detailed record, and hopefully I'll find that I have nothing to worry about.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Nov 26, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Someone very close to me is, increasingly, rewriting short-term, personal history, on the fly. At first, I thought this person was simply doing a little tap dancing around events in the immediate past as a way to avoid blame, make things look better than they were, etc. Then, I had another one of my 4 AM revelations: This person isn't making things up for any exculpatory reasons. Rather, this person actually believes things happened the way this person relates them to me and others. I am worried that I may be a witness to the first step into dementia, for this person.  I will start keeping a detailed record, and hopefully I'll find that I have nothing to worry about.


It's time for the person who's very close to you to be seen by a doctor. Past time.


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## treeguy64 (Nov 27, 2019)

GeorgiaXplant said:


> It's time for the person who's very close to you to be seen by a doctor. Past time.


Unfortunately, that will never happen. Adamantly refuses.


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## Suzy623 (Nov 29, 2019)

Keesha said:


> When seniors still think they can drive yet their license has been revoked due to strokes and incapacity, if they had the keys, they would be driving. That’s dangerous to all.


One problem I had with my mother, who was diagnosed with onset of dementia, was that she felt she could still drive. After she bent her back tire rim, drove into then out of a small ditch, got stuck in the yard when she drove over the grass after a few days of rain, I sat her down and told her: at her age (87 at the time), and with the diagnoses of the onset of dementia in her doctors record, her insurance will probably reject any claim she may file if she has a wreck. Which is true if the wreck causes bodily or property damage. I had to tell her several times over a period of about a month and she gave up driving as long as I would take her when and where she wanted to go. My daddy, who's dementia is more advanced than my mother's, decided on his own to stop driving several years ago.


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## Keesha (Nov 29, 2019)

Suzy623 said:


> One problem I had with my mother, who was diagnosed with onset of dementia, was that she felt she could still drive. After she bent her back tire rim, drove into then out of a small ditch, got stuck in the yard when she drove over the grass after a few days of rain, I sat her down and told her: at her age (87 at the time), and with the diagnoses of the onset of dementia in her doctors record, her insurance will probably reject any claim she may file if she has a wreck. Which is true if the wreck causes bodily or property damage. I had to tell her several times over a period of about a month and she gave up driving as long as I would take her when and where she wanted to go. My daddy, who's dementia is more advanced than my mother's, decided on his own to stop driving several years ago.



I hope what I write doesn’t come across as whining or complaining but I truly never considered that I’d have to deal with my parents losing their minds. It’s just not something I ever considered and I’m not sure why. Maybe lack of experience or possibly just gullible and naive but there were some pivotal crucial turning points that have been difficult where I didn’t know what to do.

My mom got her license revoked after her first stroke but she had enough common sense to stop driving. For about a year she became a sweet little old lady who was easy to get along with for the most part. I was actually getting closure regarding our relationship and know she looked forward to seeing me. Her eyes would always light up when we went to visit. When she needed help she wouldn’t ask but when  help was offered she’d graciously accept it. She trusted my husband and I.


My father was a whole other story.
He used to fly planes , race motorcycles and rally with small cars and while he was a relatively good driver, he was known to speed and take risks.
Now that he’s older he’s willing to still take risks and I did sit down with him many , many times about the driving but he’d forget.

Even when I took his keys, he understood exactly why I was taking them and was in complete agreement. Then he’d forget but this happened regarding people hacking his computer and ripping him off, it happened regarding his credit cards but one of the worst memory loses was when he signed for my mom and him to go into long term care since we’d exhausted all their sources for home care. They needed this help so badly. We didn’t have the power or resources to help them permanently. 

He’d forgotten he’d signed to go in and all the reasons why. I’d have to go over things 30 to 40 times hoping that things would finally stick but what I found is that he’d pick out only the parts that he liked and discard all the rest.

The hardest part was trying to get him to trust me.He didn’t trust anyone except my mom and with her gone he was lost. Once he viewed me as the villain I knew I was at a dead end. Years ago I remember one of the nurses saying that once they reach a certain stage in dementia that it’s best that family members let the professionals take over.

The relationship dynamics between the health care worker and the patient is more of a professional one. The benefits being that the guilt trips don’t work on these people . They are trained in knowing how to handle situations and know the progression involved in dementia.

Seniors can reach stages in dementia where they become hostile & abusive and it can become dangerous. I’m really thankful that I had so much support going through this. I hope you have the support you need Suzy. Don’t forget to take care of yourself ❤


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## Suzy623 (Nov 29, 2019)

Keesha said:


> I hope what I write doesn’t come across as whining or complaining but I truly never considered that I’d have to deal with my parents losing their minds. It’s just not something I ever considered and I’m not sure why. Maybe lack of experience or possibly just gullible and naive but there were some pivotal crucial turning points that have been difficult where I didn’t know what to do.
> 
> My mom got her license revoked after her first stroke but she had enough common sense to stop driving. For about a year she became a sweet little old lady who was easy to get along with for the most part. I was actually getting closure regarding our relationship and know she looked forward to seeing me. Her eyes would always light up when we went to visit. When she needed help she wouldn’t ask but when  help was offered she’d graciously accept it. She trusted my husband and I.
> 
> ...


My Daddy used to fly planes. Actually, he started making gas-powered model planes when I was a baby and used to meet with others who enjoyed the hobby. Then he got his license and would fly small planes. He really enjoyed it. Then he bought a trimaran and started building a catamaran in our backyard. I had forgotten about that. Thanks for bringing back good memories.

And I try to take care of myself but the support is hard to come by at this period of our lives. Once life settles down a bit (hoping it'll settle down), I will be searching for a local support group. I belong to an online forum right now, which helps a great deal with questions and suggestions, but I need to get a real person who knows what I'm going through.

Thank you for your encouragement.


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## Keesha (Nov 29, 2019)

You’re most welcome. I’m glad I could help brighten your situation some. I’m just reading your diary now. Geez you sure are going through an awful lot. It’s good that you have a plan for support. You’re dealing with a lot.

Both my mom and dad had motorbikes when they were younger and lived in England. What’s remarkable about  dementia is while short term memory goes first,long term memory gets better.My father was telling me stories in great detail about his pals when he was a kid yet couldn’t remember what he had done the previous day.

If you ever need to vent feel free to pm me.


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## Judycat (Nov 30, 2019)

Years ago I took my dad to the ER because he had developed seemingly never ending diarrhea. After a short time, the doctor there claimed he ran tests and confirmed my dad had a urinary tract infection then gave him a script for antibiotics. I said what about the diarrhea. Doc mumbled that the antibiotics should help that too. The next year my dad died of bowel cancer. I think the urinalysis was the only test the ER doc ordered. Bah what a bunch of bunk.


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## gennie (Nov 30, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Don't know if the nuances have been teased out, but there's lots of info on the web about it.
> 
> Anecdotally I can report that since stopping eating meat completely (and 95% of dairy) I haven't had a single UTI, and I formerly got at least one a year. Don't miss meat and definitely don't miss UTIs.



I've been told that most UTIs in elderly women are the result of poor bathroom hygiene.


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## Suzy623 (Nov 30, 2019)

gennie said:


> I've been told that most UTIs in elderly women are the result of poor bathroom hygiene.


That may be the case in some situations because I wondered if my mother wearing pads or diapers could have made it harder for her to get rid of the UTI. But, as we age our body chemistry also alters and it's harder to fight off infections. My mother also had cancer which tends to make you more susceptible to infections because of a lower immune system. So, who's to say for sure?


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