# Couldn't Resist Posting This (Pit Bulls)



## fureverywhere (Jan 25, 2016)

Yep, this is it exactly...


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## applecruncher (Jan 25, 2016)

Gridley, CA - The Butte County Sheriff's Office said a Gridley woman is dead from injuries she sustained while trying to break up a fight between her two pit bulls. Gridley is about 60 miles north of Sacramento. When the victim did not show up for work Wednesday, deputies were asked to conduct a welfare check at her home on Dewsnup Lane. Deputies arrived about 3:30 pm and found the woman inside covered in bite marks and two large pit bulls loose in the home.


http://blog.dogsbite.org/2015/12/2015-dog-bite-fatality-gridley-woman-killed-by-pet-pit-bulls.html

and this:

http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php


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## fureverywhere (Jan 25, 2016)

"Dogsbite" is notorious for giving bad press to the true bully breeds across the board. Really they are the GOP of breed bans...I will totally disregard. There was a survey one year among vets. The breed most likely to bite? Doxies...I am serious. My dogs get bad press. Because half the time "Pit Bull" becomes journalistic shorthand for big scary ass dog involved in attack. And it isn't a bully breed at all. Nobody bothers to check. It's just another headline.

When they raided Vick's dog farm? They were expecting killer doggies. These pups had been starved, beaten, tortured, forced to breed, forced to fight. The agents came in and started cutting chains. the dogs couldn't lick them or love them enough. ONE dog from the Vick farm had to be put down. Out of forty and some dogs the rest were re-homed as pets. They aren't killers by breed. They are a breed than want to please humans.

Tell them to kill another dog for you and they will. Tell them to lay on the couch with your son, relax, and you'll bring yummies...oh yes I like this, bring it on...great big lap dogs with the right human.


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## SifuPhil (Jan 25, 2016)

I think like any animal they jut want to get along, until another animal or some human mistreats them. 

I would have thought Chihuahuas were the most biting breed - those suckers are the sharks of the doggie world.


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## applecruncher (Jan 25, 2016)

To say or even imply that dogs - especially pit bulls - or any animal attacks only because their victims mistreated them is kinda silly.


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## Warrigal (Jan 25, 2016)

Bad press? Do you mean that the woman is not dead but alive, and the dogs did not bite her? That they only licked her?
It the story factual or not?

Chihuahuas are nasty little snappy things but they are unlikely to sever an artery or bite your face off.


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## hollydolly (Jan 26, 2016)

We have a chihuuahua, she is neither nasty nor snappy....but I take your generalised point WG...just as I take Furs generalised point ..because until recently we owned  a rescue Pitbull, who had to be put down after years of loving tender  care when he turned ''bad''...heartbreaking for all of us ! ...*however* ..dogs do bite, and attack for other reasons other than being mistreated, that's _all_ breeds not just Pitbulls.. there no question about that, whether we as animal lovers like it or not, it happens and it happens all too regularly.

What about the friendly family pet, that attacks the baby in the house..?. jealousy perhaps...but usually not mistreatment..

The dog that lashes out on another dog to the detriment of it's health and possible cause of it's death...not mistreatment by an owner necessarily ...just a deep abiding dislike or distrust of a stange and unknown dog.....

There's thousands of documented cases of dogs who attack, who have never been mistreated by their owners...and conversely  thousands more who _do _because of they either their genetic make-up, breeding or their mishandling by their owners.


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## applecruncher (Jan 26, 2016)

Holly, didn't the UK ban pit bulls back in 1991?


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## hollydolly (Jan 26, 2016)

Yes they were and remain so...but it's not  enforced as long as  they are kept muzzled and leashed when in public and are micro-chipped etc.......and just to be clear our Pitbull was a rescue, and he was raised in Spain...

Have a look here there's an extensive list of banned or restricted breeds per country...






https://petolog.com/articles/banned-dogs/


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## Bluecheese50 (Jan 26, 2016)

Any country allowing people to own those very dangerous dogs is crazy, but then The US is crazy in some respects especially where its evil gun culture is concerned!


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## Ralphy1 (Jan 26, 2016)

Get a cat...


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## SifuPhil (Jan 26, 2016)

Bluecheese50 said:


> Any country allowing people to own those very dangerous dogs is crazy, but then The US is crazy in some respects especially where its evil gun culture is concerned!



Yes, we all have big guns and deadly dogs and pale yellow beer in cans - and we're coming for YOU, UK! :devil:


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## Bluecheese50 (Jan 26, 2016)

SifuPhil said:


> Yes, we all have big guns and deadly dogs and pale yellow beer in cans - and we're coming for YOU, UK! :devil:



PATHETIC.


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## SifuPhil (Jan 26, 2016)

Bluecheese50 said:


> PATHETIC.



Not any more pathetic than your generalization of Americans ...


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## hollydolly (Jan 26, 2016)

Ralphy1 said:


> Get a cat...



LOL the worst injuries I've ever had were from the scratches of cats which became seriously infected..*yikes*...


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## Shalimar (Jan 26, 2016)

If you find Americans so appalling why are you on this site? Admin has made it very clear that we are not permitted to stir up hostility and disrespect toward those who have different cultures, ethnicities, belief systems than ourselves. As a Canadian it would be inappropriate for me to berate all Brits for the discourtesy of one. Robust civil debate is delightful, country bashing is not. Disproportionate anger is not tolerated by our moderator/admin who wish to provide a congenial atmosphere for all to enjoy.


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## Shalimar (Jan 26, 2016)

Some people are more allergic to the saliva that collects on the pads/claws of cats than any actual dirt deposited when they scratch a person. I was bitten by a child once, boy did that infect! Three series of antibiotics until my arm healed. Lol.


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## oldman (Jan 26, 2016)

I think it was around 2006 while walking home from the garage where I take my vehicles, I first heard a noise that sounded like a chain being drug on the road. When I turned around to look, I saw a Pit Bull trotting towards me. Normally, I carry pepper spray when I walk, but on that day, I did not. The dog came right up to me and started to growl. I kept walking and he kept following me and growling. Finally, I had enough and I also did not know what his intentions were. Luckily, I had my cell phone with me and called 9-1-1. I told the dispatcher what was going on and she told me that she was sending a cop and I was to try to get myself into a safe area. That wasn't going to happen because no one was around and I wasn't going to just walk into someone's home. 

A few minutes later, the dog came after me, so I took my jacket that I was wearing off and wrapped it around my arm. When the dog jumped up at me, I stuck out my wrapped arm and he bit down on the jacket with my arm being inside of it. The dog then leaped towards my face, so I punched him in the head kind of between the eyes.  The dog let go, but stood there in front of me growling again. At that time, the cop showed up and surveyed the situation. He then drew his gun when at that moment, a garbage truck came into the development where I was and the female garbage collector yelled for the cop not to shoot. She reached into the cab of the truck and pulled out a few dog biscuits that they carry for situations like mine. The dog took the biscuit and the lady was allowed to put a rope around the dog's neck and tie him to a gas light pole in front of the house. 

I found out that the dog was just over a year old, but he looked pretty scary to me. When the dog bit down on my coat, he penetrated the jacket and bit my arm just enough to draw a small bit of blood. The cop said that he had to call me an ambulance and I immediately rejected that idea. The cop told me that I had to go to the doctors and have the doc look at it. I later found out that they do this, so you can be counted as a dog bite statistic. The dog was quarantined for 10 days and did not show signs of rabies. The dog belonged to a single mom with two kids. The little boy, maybe 10 or so, was walking the dog and he got away from him. 

As it ended up, I went to the docs and had my dog bite cleaned and examined. The owner was able to produce the rabies vaccination certificate, so the dog was able to stay alive. The cop told me that I could sue the owner, but since everything turned out OK, I passed on it. Besides, she was a single mom with two kids and renting an apartment and doing the best she could. Who was I to make her life more complicated?  

BTW, the cop told me that the three most vicious dogs here in America were the Doberman, Rottweiler and Pit Bull. The cop said that he has a standing order to shoot to kill any dog that has bitten someone. The lady had to pay the vet's bill, plus a fine and any money that I paid out of pocket, which was zero. 

That's my dog story.


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## hollydolly (Jan 26, 2016)

Oldman, we also own a Doberman and he's a big softie...he's 10 years old and has never shown any aggression towards a human being...that said yes Doberman's have to be respected in that in the wrong hands they can be very dangerous dogs indeed. However, animals are like people in that they can be just born aggressive, or with a mental imbalance, or just be plain bad tempered, so regardless of how good their training and ownership is, all dogs have the capability to be bad, ..it's just that some due to size and strength  are just so much more likely to do serious or fatal damage.

*here's a list of the most dangerous dogs in the USA *

In America there is no Federal law that imposed a ban and restrictions  on dangerous breeds of dogs across the country. There is a law that  prohibits the conduct of dog fighting, as well as training these dogs  for fighting and their movement within the country. 
 There is a prohibition on the housing of large dogs in the cantonments  of the U.S.А. army like Pitbulls, Rottweilers and hybrids of these  species. Municipal authorities had taken several hundreds of laws  banning the ownership of such dogs as: 


Staffordshire Bull Terrier 
American Pitbull Terrier 
American Staffordshire Terrier 
Dogo Argentino 
American Bulldog 
Tosa Inu 
Dogo Canario 
Cane Corso 
Fila Brasileiro (Brazilian Mastiff) 
Akita Inu 
Dogue de Bordeaux 
Bandog 
Bullmastiff 
Doberman Pinscher 
Ca de Bou (Majorca Mastiff) 
Kuvasz 
German Shepherd 
Mastino Neapolitano 
Rottweiler 
Chow Chow 
Japanese Mastiff 
Mixtures of wolves 
Hybrids of the above-mentioned breeds 
  Limitations of ownership in some States include: the age of the owner  must be at least 21 years, the amount of liability insurance must be 100  000 $, prohibition the sale of dangerous dogs, the dog can given only  to relatives, at private homes be sure to hang warning signs.


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## applecruncher (Jan 26, 2016)

So…let me get this straight. We Americans have deadly dogs, carry big guns, drink pale yellow beer, and we’re pathetic? Okay. Got it.

But at least WE go to the dentist every now and then. :laugh:

Okay, back on topic: fureverywhere, I’m curious as to why you started this thread. Is this just another thread to try to show that pit bulls (or “pitties” as you often say) can do no wrong?


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## hollydolly (Jan 26, 2016)

applecruncher said:


> So…let me get this straight. We Americans have deadly dogs, carry big guns, drink pale yellow beer, and we’re pathetic? Okay. Got it.
> 
> *But at least WE go to the dentist every now and then. :laugh:
> *





:tongue:
http://www.bbcamerica.com/shows//blog/2013/09/british-dental-care-the-tooth-of-the-matter


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## Ralphy1 (Jan 26, 2016)

OK, get a hamster...


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## NancyNGA (Jan 26, 2016)

I was bitten by a German Shepherd who was normally tied in a yard which I had to walk by every day.  This day he wasn't.  Came running right toward me.  I'd always heard to never run when that happens.  He bit through a winter coat and left 4 teeth bruises on my leg.  I just stood and looked at him.  He turned around and walked off. I think if I had run it would have been bad news.

My father was bitten on the leg by a neighbor's pitbull when they lived in Florida, while they were talking to those neighbors.  Drew blood.  My father never fussed about it.


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## RadishRose (Jan 26, 2016)

I love dogs and feel sad that breeders play such a large part in ruining a good animal, like the Pitbull. I believe the majority of today's  Pits may be coming away from the terrible genetic tendency to fight and kill that "breeders" intentionally instilled by mating the most aggressive dogs.

Look what happened to the German Shepherd many years ago...originally called Alsation Wolfhound or Wolfdog, this strong and intelligent animal was a shepherd and a working dog until some idiots decided to use that strength to breed a vicious guard dog renamed the German Police dog. People became terrorized, no one wanted them any more and after many years they returned to a normal dog, again renamed the German Shepherd.

I don't know if these breeds that have been so irresponsibly tampered with will ever recover 100%, but I do feel there will improvement.  The crimes done in breeding aggressive temperament are not the only crimes. Powerful jaw musculature has also been enhanced to enable the dog to strangle its prey with greater ease and surety than before. 

As beautiful and sweet as many Pits are, I just don't have enough trust. It's a shame because its not their fault.


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## Jackie22 (Jan 26, 2016)

NancyNGA said:


> I was bitten by a German Shepherd who was normally tied in a yard which I had to walk by every day.  This day he wasn't.  Came running right toward me.  I'd always heard to never run when that happens.  He bit through a winter coat and left 4 teeth bruises on my leg.  I just stood and looked at him.  He turned around and walked off. I think if I had run it would have been bad news.
> 
> My father was bitten on the leg by a neighbor's pitbull when they lived in Florida, while they were talking to those neighbors.  Drew blood.  My father never fussed about it.



Yes, we used to have a German Shepard that was a biter, he also would run at calves, he was so aggressive that we had to have him put down.


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## applecruncher (Jan 26, 2016)

hollydolly said:


> :tongue:
> http://www.bbcamerica.com/shows//blog/2013/09/british-dental-care-the-tooth-of-the-matter



:hide:


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## SifuPhil (Jan 26, 2016)

Jackie22 said:


> Yes, we used to have a German Shepard that was a biter, he also would run at calves, he was so aggressive that we had to have him put down.



We also once had a German Shepard - beautiful animal, but willful and wild. Not her fault, ours - we never knew how to train her - and we had to give her away to a neighbor.


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## hollydolly (Jan 26, 2016)

Jackie22 said:


> Yes, we used to have a German Shepard that was a biter, he also would run at calves, he was so aggressive that we had to have him put down.



...and there again we had one when I was growing up.. who never bit  or snarled at anyone, and we used to ride his back and everything, .. but his sheer size and the fact he was an Alsation  put the fear of god into most people , and the Postman wouldn't deliver to our house because he barked so loudly..yet he was a gentle soul and wouldn't harm anyone.

I was bitten by a Black cross breed  Alsation who was clearly not being looked after properly..I was delivering something to a house and the dog ran out of the open front door as I walked up the path and took a huge chunk out of my thigh (through my trousers), even tho' I had stood stock still..(very similar situation to you Nancy)...and the owner came out screaming at me making out it was my fault because I walked up her path..but this was a postal delivery she'd ordered, and her garden was open plan, so the dog should never have been allowed free rein in the first place.

I was also bitten by a rotty ..actually a pair of rotties. My fault..they were guard dogs and I opened the gate to their six foot fenced off garden, mistaking it for the house next door where I should have been going , I only got through the gate  into the garden by about 4 feet and they were on me, and I turned and ran slamming the gate hard on them to shake them off......again my legs took the snarling bites...but they were Guard dogs they were only doing what they'd been trained to do....and much as I love dogs I've always been very wary of Rotties...


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## hollydolly (Jan 26, 2016)

applecruncher said:


> :hide:





LOL.... :jumelles:


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## applecruncher (Jan 26, 2016)

One of my all-time favorite TV shows is/was “Columbo”. I still watch it sometimes on Netflix.

One very interesting episode was “How to Dial a Murder” with Scottish actor Nicol Williamson. He owns 2 Dobermans named Laurel and Hardy. Very impressive dogs – they and their trainer should have gotten an Emmy.


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## hollydolly (Jan 26, 2016)

Our Adored Dobie...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









our loved and much missed rescue Pitbull who had to be PTS...








Current photo of 3 of our dogs all deemed to be a dangerous breeds...Belgian Mallinois...Doberman, and a Staffordshire bull terrier.. the Mailois is the puppy, she's just 18 months old , the staffy is 10 and very poorly but stoical, and the Doberman is almost 10 and still struts about like a big puppy and the Malinios and the Dobie are the best of friends..


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## jujube (Jan 26, 2016)

My granddaughter, at 10, was attacked by two Dobermans (dobermen?) when she was out on a run.   She was running down the road and they got out through an open gate and nailed her.  One actually grabbed her by the back and started dragging her (several stitches needed) and the other one got her by the back of the knee and bit clear through to the bone.  The orthopedist at the hospital said it was a miracle it didn't pierce a major blood vessel or a tendon.  As a championship runner and triathlete, this could have put paid to her career and college scholarship hopes.  

The owner claimed that the dogs had "never done anything like that before" and, of course, had to pay for all her hospital bills and follow-up treatment.  Luckily, she recovered fully and it didn't set her significantly back on her running.

Being the tender-hearted kid and animal-lover that she was, though, on the way home from the hospital, she wanted to stop by the owner's home and tell the dogs she wasn't mad at them.  

A funny story:  I regularly walked down a country road in North Carolina last summer and every day, these mixed-breed dogs (looked like pit mixes) would bark at me from the porch of a house every time I went by.  One morning, I came around the curve and saw them in the road.  I thought uh-oh, I'm in for it.....but when they saw me, they immediately ran into the yard, up on the porch and barked at me like fools as I went by.  Big brave doggies.......all talk, no show....lol.


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## SifuPhil (Jan 26, 2016)

Several of our neighbors have dogs that they let run in their tiny back yards. There's usually an old wooden porch that the dogs stand on and bark at any passers-by, and the yard usually comes around to the front near the sidewalk, all fenced in luckily.

When I make my walks to the store several times a week the doggies come out and bark and run and keep pace with me as I slowly walk. One day I was in a mood ... as this one huge beast (a mixed breed I guess) came up to the fence and started barking at me, I yelled out "HEY!" and growled at him. 

He stopped barking, pulled his head back and tilted it, looking at me like I was the weirdest thing he'd encountered all week.

Who's the Big Dawg now, huh? HUH?!? Want to dance, puppy?!? LOL!


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## fureverywhere (Jan 26, 2016)

There was this couple who were friends with my parents. They had this gorgeous male German Shepherd. He was probably intact, neutering wasn't so common at that time. I was just a kid so his size frightened me. Plus I had a mini farm set to play with and you know who munched it to pieces. But one day my Dad and the husband took me out. The wife was going to try to introduce my Mom to the dog so they could be friends. I think two problems came from the dog not being well socialized. The house was out in the sticks so he probably didn't meet many strangers in a friendly way. They also tied him out as a guard dog. 

Well sparing the gory details my Mom gave him a biscuit and turned around. She wore a heavy girdle so that saved her from getting stitches. For whatever reason he bit her in the butt. It's too bad besides because it played a part in ending the friendship with this couple.

But once again it's the deed not the breed. Best buddy had a German Shepherd for almost twenty years and the most mellow, well trained dog you could ask for. Smart too, when new partner moved in Riggs would stand at the top of the stairs with a bone. As soon as partner appeared...BANG...the bone would launch down to the hall.


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## fureverywhere (Jan 26, 2016)

What a beautiful pack indeed! You are so lucky, three times the love.


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## hollydolly (Jan 26, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> What a beautiful pack indeed! You are so lucky, three times the love.



Thanks Fur...indeed they are...and there are 4 more of them as well..a total of 7 ...but no more  so called dangerous breeds ...3 labradoodles and a chihuahua ...and I love them all dearly.. 

(apologies for the double picture posting but there seems to be an attachment clich on SF currently)


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## RadishRose (Jan 26, 2016)

Holly, they are beautiful dogs!


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## RadishRose (Jan 26, 2016)

Fur, then would you say that indiscriminate breeders who mate the most aggressive dog with another most aggressive dog do NOT produce puppies with genetic tendencies to be aggressive?


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## fureverywhere (Jan 26, 2016)

As I said the Vick dogs are a perfect example. It depends on the breed primarily. There are some breeds that can be more independent and less people oriented. In theory you could breed an aggressive independent dog and another aggressive independent dog in hopes of creating nuclear puppies. But it probably wouldn't work. The parent's disposition isn't carried on unless perhaps the parents raise the puppies to be like them. 

The Vick dogs were bred in hopes of getting prize winning fighting stock. The old time dog fighters knew genetics. Vick's crew were just back yard breeders who were fairly ignorant about what they were doing. When a dog didn't fight they killed it. They didn't know the thinking of the bully breeds. The old time trainers cared well for their champions. Bullies are among the most people pleasing breeds ever. If their owners were pleased by them fighting other dogs they would do it. But the true nature of the bull breeds was revealed when they raided the Vick farm. 

Forty dogs caged or chained to blocks, beaten, starved, over-bred, some with hideous scars. The wardens started cutting chains not knowing what to expect. The dogs as a whole licked and wagged and greeted the humans with pleasure. After all they had suffered at the hands of sick humans they still didn't hold it against their rescuers. That says everything about the breed. Only one Vick dog was beyond rehabilitation. It wasn't even a dog used for fighting. It was a breeding female who had been confined and forced to produce puppies her whole life. She had to be put to sleep because she had lost her mind.


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## RadishRose (Jan 26, 2016)

"The parent's disposition isn't carried on unless perhaps the parents raise the puppies to be like them. 

Interesting Fur, and so horribly sad what those Vick dogs endured. I dunno...if I were a Vick dog, I'd be ecstatic at first at a friendly voice, but I think I'd be a killer the next chance I got.


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## Linda (Jan 26, 2016)

Holly, I'm glad you listed the most dangerous dogs in the US.  I was surprised Bull Terriers were number 1.  My neighbor raised them for about 20 years but they never went out of her yard except when she sold one.  Then she gave one to my oldest son because it was 3 legged and she didn't want to use him for breeding purposes.  I've already written on this forum what happened with him so I won't repeat it.  

We liked Pitts but gave ours away cause it snapped at our other dog and drew a bit of blood.  We gave it to a couple our age who had no other pets and they took him camping and he gets along great with them.  They put him in a kennel when the grand kids visit.

My favorite dogs are Rottweilers but we got rid of all of ours and I'll tell that story on another day.  

We have a local Facebook page for people living in my zip code.  A couple days ago a man who lives nearby said his neighbor's 2 pitts got out and killed his mini horse.  People should keep their dogs in their yards.  We have every bit of our property fenced and cross fenced and all we have is a mild mannered boxer, Suzie and then of course, the 2 small dogs Seth and Minnie Mouse.  

My next door neighbor was on a judge type show (The Bench of some name like that) a couple years ago cause her pitts went a couple miles up the road and killed a lady's sheep.  Who knew sheep were worth $7,000 each?  Well, now my neighbor lady knows.


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## applecruncher (Jan 26, 2016)

Yet the overly defensive pit owners tell stories about their sweet pit bull and post pictures of their dog playing with a toddler, or articles about gentle pit bulls, etc.

For every such picture or article there are dozens – maybe even _hundreds_ – of pictures and articles about maimed, bloody, or dead toddlers, adults, and other dogs, sheep, horses, etc. 

The assertion that “properly trained” dogs don’t bite/attack unless provoked is such malarkey.


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## fureverywhere (Jan 26, 2016)

And how many dogs and breeds have we had Applecruncher? Really I'm curious...My Sophie has grown elderly and dog aggressive. Is it because she is an AmStaff? No. It is because she has always been a canine basket case and has just gotten worse as she gets older. She would kill a balloon if it got too close. But I knew that when I adopted her. Fear aggression plain and simple. My Callie is a bruiser and probably 100% American Bull Dog. But other dogs, cats, even rats, human females and children. Oh women and children making a fuss over him and he is a happy man. Strange human males in uniform and he is not pleased. But nothing to do with his breed and he is always on leash. If he was a beagle that hated strange men, would it be in his blood? Of course not...


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## applecruncher (Jan 26, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Bad press? Do you mean that the woman is not dead but alive, and the dogs did not bite her? That they only licked her?
> It the story factual or not?
> 
> Chihuahuas are nasty little snappy things *but they are unlikely to sever an artery or bite your face off.*



Exactly.  But like all dogs, they _will_ bite, for no reason other than they are dogs.


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## Shalimar (Jan 26, 2016)

Hmmm. I have seen many such articles pertaining to such deaths caused by other breeds as well. Usually not as prominently displayed as pit bull attacks. Feeding the crazed pit bull story line makes for good ratings. I have a good friend who happens to 

be a vet. He states aggression can manifest in  any bloodline, but most properly trained, well loved dogs are safe. In thirty five years, he has run across two vicious pit bulls, among perhaps one hundred or more he has treated. He found Chows, Malinois, 

to be less reliable, but still not inherently vicious. Overbreeding he says causes problems, even among Cairn Terriers. Melita kennels, formerly of Victoria BC, near where I live, almost lost their breeding license over a sudden problem with aggressive  Cairns. Our 

family always purchased our pets from them, wonderful dogs. Fortunately, they were able to "trace" the problem, and remedy it. Many dogs have a strong prey drive, it makes sense to confine them in such a way to avoid problems with sheep, cattle, etc.

whatever the dog might view as prey. As for snide remarks re the supposedly overly defensive stance taken by those who love their pit bulls, what purpose does that serve, other than to ridicule someone's love for their animals? Very aggressive, 

predatory behaviour in it's own right. People have a far greater capacity for violence than any dog.


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## fureverywhere (Jan 26, 2016)

In a survey among US vets...the dogs most statistically likely to bite? Dachshunds.


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## Shalimar (Jan 26, 2016)

Of course, that isn't nearly as flashy a soundbite as pit bulls. Vicious dachs just seem ridiculous to many. According to my vet, aging cocker spaniels often turn on their owners, but little is ever reported. Say what you will, a bias exists. All dogs do not bite 

just because they are dogs. Like people, they vary in temperament. Humans, the most vicious predators on earth, are not all violent, just because we are human.


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## fureverywhere (Jan 26, 2016)

For the readers, two books I totally recommend:

The Lost Dogs by Jim Gorant

Details the Vick raid and the aftermath of the dogs, many uplifting stories.

Badd Newz The Untold Story of the Michael Vick Dog Fighting Case by Kathy Strouse

A good addition to The Lost Dogs, a history of dog fighting and the many ways Vick is a douche bag. If I were the judge at his probation trial I would have said he would never be able to own even a goldfish for life. Bloody bastard. But you notice the injuries. There are a bunch of pro-ballers who love their dogs. They know who he is...


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## Butterfly (Jan 27, 2016)

My pittie Bonnie is the sweetest girl that ever was -- not a mean bone in her body.  Well behaved at home and away.  I love her dearly and wouldn't trade her for anything!  The only time she has gotten upset was when we were out walking and a very oddly acting and gesticulating man approached us way too fast -- Bonnie planted her tank-like self firmly in front of me and said "GRRRR!"  The man crossed the street and I was grateful for Bonnie's protective instincts.  Otherwise, she loves everybody, especially children and my plumber.


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## SifuPhil (Jan 27, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> For the readers, two books I totally recommend:
> 
> The Lost Dogs by Jim Gorant
> 
> ...



Don't know how that *$%&# got to play ball again - I'd have hung him out to dry for a long, long time. 21 months wasn't nearly long enough. I guess the Philadelphia Eagles will take anyone. 

Money talks, I suppose ... he makes a lot for them.


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## jujube (Jan 27, 2016)

I am a dog-petter.  I love to pet dogs and play with them.  I love dogs....I just don't want any myself, so I enjoy other folks' dogs.

It's a miracle that I've only been bitten once.  I was walking in our neighborhood and stopped to chat with a young couple walking an elderly golden and a Rhodesian Ridgeback.  Both dogs were very friendly, much grinning and dancing and pressing against me with tails a-wag.  I petted the golden, then the ridgeback, then the golden wanted some more attention and then I finished up with the ridgeback again.  As I was pulling my hand back from the ridgeback (I wasn't moving quickly, just slow and steady), he turned and clamped down on my wrist, drawing blood.  The young couple were horrified and said he had never done that before.  They were extremely apologetic and offered any actions I needed.  All I asked was that they immediately bring me the dog's up-to-date shot records and be prepared to cover any medical bills needed.  They agreed, the dog was up-to-date on all shots and was healthy and the bites were only superficial.  

My late husband once was bitten on the rear end by a Chihuahua.  Yes, a Chihuahua.  He worked as a mailman during his summers in college and was walking on a sidewalk that abutted a raised porch and the Chihuahua launched itself off the porch and latched onto the seat of his uniform pants.  He had to shake the dog off.  Luckily, he did not get bitten at all, but it tore a hole in his trousers.  You can about imagine the ribbing he got back at the post office when he made his accident report.


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## applecruncher (Jan 27, 2016)

I only pet dogs owned by people I know well (relatives & friends), and only after getting permission.

I never pet strange dogs, and when my niece and nephew were little I cautioned them about doing it.

I also don’t put my hands on or hug an owner unless the dog knows me and has seen me several times before.

Back in the late 90s I was wrestling with my 5 yr old nephew. He was squealing and giggling. The family dog (a lab who had seen me many times) become uncomfortable and growled….so I stopped and backed off.

Last summer I was invited to a gathering (picnic) at the home of local relatives…a house I’ve been to a few hundred times over the years. When we got out of the car, SO and I were greeted by a lot of barking from a dog (on a leash) owned by my cousin (daughter of homeowners) and her husband (who live out of state). Not sure of the breed…looked like labradoodle.

Eventually owner removed the leash, and dog (who had never seen me or SO) settled down.

However, after awhile I got up to use the restroom, opened the patio door, and I walked inside dog followed me. As I started down the hall the dog went NUTS barking and also growling. I stopped, and owner came to get the dog.

Just protecting the homefront, I guess. :shrug:


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## AprilT (Jan 27, 2016)

The thing is, we know most any dog can bite and will under various circumstances, but, which ones are likely to do so and cause the most bodily harm and or ever deaths from their attacks sometimes it is these things that should be considered with bringing a pet into the home especially to have around young children. The data is rather hard to ignore, but, I don't know I could be missing something since I'm no expert on the matter.

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

A 2009 report issued by DogsBite.org shows that 19 dog *breeds*contributed to 88 deaths in the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008. *Pit bulls*accounted for 59% followed by *rottweilers* with 14%. Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, *pit bull type dogs* were responsible for 59% (52).Nov 16, 2015

=============================================================================

http://www.livescience.com/27145-are-pit-bulls-dangerous.html

from above link:

Police in Nassau County, N.Y., are searching door-to-door for two pit bulls that went on a bloody rampage, attacking a teenage boy and three women during a 30-minute period Wednesday (Feb. 13).
"One literally went for my leg and [the] other was trying to jump on top of me, but I was hitting them, and I was punching them," Janelle Manning, 24, told CBS New York. "They both weren't letting go, once they got a hold of my leg."
Because of her leg injuries, Manning now struggles to walk up and down stairs, CBS reports. "These dogs were, like, trained to kill; trained to hurt and viciously attack people," she said.

But do pit bulls deserve their reputation as vicious "attack" dogs? An overwhelming amount of evidence suggests they do.
A five-year review of dog-bite injuries from the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, published in 2009 in the journal Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, found that almost 51 percent of the attacks were from pit bulls, almost 9 percent were from Rottweilers and 6 percent were from mixes of those two breeds.
In other words, a whopping two-thirds of the hospital's dog-attack injuries involved just two breeds, pit bulls and Rottweilers.
Other studies confirm these statistics: A 15-year study published in 2009 in the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology revealed that pit bulls, Rottweilers and German shepherds were responsible for the majority of fatal dog attacks in the state of Kentucky. [See What Your Dog's Breed Says About You]
And a 2011 study from the Annals of Surgery revealed that "attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs."
The authors of that 2011 study go on to say, "Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the U.S. mortality rates related to dog bites."
*Pit bulls and the law*
Some states and cities have acted on the research: The state of Maryland has determined that pit bulls are "inherently dangerous" and all owners are liable for any injuries they cause, according to theBaltimore Sun.
Even the U.S. Army has acknowledged that pit bulls are high-risk dogs; they are therefore prohibited in some military housing units.
Pit bulls join several other breeds on the list of dogs that are recognized as more likely to attack and cause significant injury: The Centeres for Disease Control and Prevention analyzed data and found the following breeds are implicated in a majority of dog-bite fatalities:


Pit bulls
Rottweilers
German shepherds
Huskies
Wolf hybrids
Malamutes
Doberman pinschers
Chow-chows
Saint Bernards
Great Danes
It's worth noting that no matter how these data are arranged — mixed breeds versus pure breeds, injuries versus fatalities — pit bulls consistently rank at the top of the list for attacks, and by a wide margin. (Rottweilers generally rank a distant second.)
*Paying the price for pit bulls*
As a result of the overwhelming evidence against pit bulls, home owners and landlords often must pay significantly higher insurance premiums if they have a pit bull or other recognized "bad dog" breed on their property. [Infographic: Dog Bite Incidents]


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## Ruthanne (Jan 27, 2016)

I knew someone that had a pitbull.  She was a very nice and shy dog.  I've known other pitbulls and they all were well behaved dogs.  I don't know why some dogs bite at tmes.


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## Linda (Jan 27, 2016)

My 3 dogs here have never bitten anyone but that doesn't mean they wouldn't under the right circumstances.  We never leave them alone with little kids because sometimes they tease dogs.  I'm more concerned about dogs that maim and kill.  I especially hate it when dogs chase people who are out for a walk or riding a bicycle.  If people would just keep their dogs on their own property life would be so much easier for everyone.


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## fureverywhere (Jan 27, 2016)

Awww Butterfly, Callie protects me like that too. Even cars just cruising by at night and he stands between me and the car like "I've got my eye on you" -same dog and a few minutes ago Ninja was in my lap. Seventeen pounds of solid kitty. Callie came by to take a sniff and Ninja met him nose to nose. Callie stood up and laid down behind the chair. Cats rule!


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## Warrigal (Jan 27, 2016)

I'm on the same wavelength as Linda. 
Little kids and dogs should always be supervised if only to be able to educate the children about how to relate to dogs. Sometimes it is to protect the children and sometimes to protect the dog.

When it comes to bigger dogs then more vigilance is necessary. Some breeds, like our cattle dogs, have instincts to nip the heels of cattle to round them up and as a medium sized dog, a bite can be nasty although they are unlikely to kill anyone. Cattle dogs and sheep dogs tend to be very loyal and protective of their human pack and when children are playing together and there is horseplay and squealing, they may enter the fray to protect their children, in the process biting the neighbours' children. Yes, they are nice dogs and good pets but it is still important to anticipate risk and take preventative action.

Another risk is from older dogs who may be in pain with arthritis and who have lost patience for being pulled around. They should be spared the attention of little children, supervised or not.

However, when it comes to dogs bred or trained for fighting, whose physical structure and biting techniques are designed for maximum injury, I wouldn't want one anywhere near me or mine. At the first aggressive sign I would want them put down for reasons of public safety. If they kill a cat or another small dog then for me that is reason enough to euthanize them.

I remember years ago an old lady was walking in our street and two german shepherds that were kept as guard dogs were on the loose in their front yard. They jumped the fence and attacked her, knocking her to the ground. Then they scalped her. She died a couple of weeks later.


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## AprilT (Jan 27, 2016)

My favorite breed or of some mixture is the German Shephard, I love this breed of dog, but, I know darn well it's capabilities and how aggressive it can be, toward strangers under certain circumstances it wouldn't stop me from wanting to own one though, but I don't kid myself into thinking it's just some innocent little sweet thing.  Sure some of them act like little babies, a former roommate of mine had one that would jump in bed and snuggle with any of us who were the person home when the slightest big of thunder approached his earshot.  That dog for some reason especially didn't like strange men you better believe brownie would bite you unless proper introductions were made and then you had better not look at any of the homes occupants in the wrong way or you might be on the menu.  Just the way it was, so, mostly when, male, guest came over, Brownie was put out into the yard.  I grew up around the breed, but, I'm, always, cautious around ones I don't know.  I fell head over hills for a Doberman once as well, it was the sweetest thing once it new you and the owner were friends.   Having said that, I respect the nature of these types of dogs.


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## fureverywhere (Jan 27, 2016)

It is important to know what your dog is capable of and err on the side of caution. That goes for any breed really. Especially around children, I know many people who dogs and kids grew up beautifully together. But it depends on the dog and child. One thing to always teach kids is to always ask the owner before petting. But if the dog is alone or in it's yard stay away. My Sophie is a canine basket case. She is always on a secure leash and I only walk her where there are no other dogs. She will never meet my grandson, she's just too unstable. Callie too has a secure leash but the only thing that makes him mad is men appearing out of the dark. He's gotten better though. Regular neighbors know him now and will announce themselves with "GOOD EVENING MA"AM!". Hearing the man before he appears makes it okay. But I would never let him off leash.


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## DennisK (Jan 28, 2016)

One of my dogs is a Shepard.  His name is Ernie, and he is quite famous  here. The sun set was a few hours ago.  In the dark, the nocturnal  animals  started their waking time. As always, the frogs crook - the night birds  call, and amongst them, is a pack of coyotes that hunt the valley and  its oak  growth ravines. They do this while they perform an a-capella of high  pitched yelps from all members of the pack. These yelps, end in a long  lingering arias that is a howl.  Ernie, is a piebald Shepard. He sat  overlooking the  stage, and his strong baritone voice barks a response.  This elicits an  allegro of yelps and barks from the tenor coyotes.  This recitative  continues until Ernie lifts his muzzle to the night sky and performs an  arias that is a long, rich, pitch perfect howl which lasts a good 15  seconds.  As the last echo bounced from the sides of the ravine, all was   quiet.  The frogs stopped crooking, the birds did not call, and the  coyotes  bowed in their silence.  Ernie lifted his nose to the breeze, bids his  audience a good night, and returned to the house.  So ended this  evening's  opera.


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## Warrigal (Jan 28, 2016)

Lovely, Dennis. Sounds like a perfect way to celebrate the advent of night.


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## Shalimar (Jan 28, 2016)

Beautiful Dennis, lyrical description.


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## Butterfly (Jan 29, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Beautiful Dennis, lyrical description.



Yes, very much so!


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## Butterfly (Jan 29, 2016)

There's a bloodhound that lives around the corner from me -- Fred.  Fred can really sing an aria, too.  And when he does it, he looks like he is in some kind of doggie zen heaven.


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## DennisK (Jan 29, 2016)

Thanks.  Ernie lives within 100 + acres about 30 miles from the nearest town.  When I take him into town, he doesn't seem to be bothered about any of the people he sees.  I can't imagine him biting anyone.


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## fureverywhere (Jan 29, 2016)

Wow Dennis, I knew you were a reader...are you published as well?


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## DennisK (Jan 29, 2016)

Thanks fureverywhere - no, I'm just a reader.  But I didn't just make that up. It really happened.  Even the frogs thought something extraordinary happened! Ernie is very vocal.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 29, 2016)

I have mixed feelings about Pits..   I would own one only if I didn't have other dogs... or cats....  However,  I really wouldn't trust one with my other animals..  Breeds have triggers.. and even the most docile dogs can succumb to them...    Pits tend to be animal aggressive..  No way would I trust one with my other animals..


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## fureverywhere (Jan 29, 2016)

As I've said it's the individual dog and not the breed. Sophie tries to kill wild animals but fears our house cats. With Callie it's a game, he and our big gray cat get into stand-offs, both holding their crotch and mocking each other. If Callie wanted to...Foote would be dead in seconds. Instead he has a tic tac board of scars over his nose. They can understand that other animals of the house, even rats are not prey.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 30, 2016)

Yet... so many times one reads of a "Pit" who was just a love... and wouldn't hurt a fly... and never was a problem, suddenly attacking a small dog or another animal..  I contend it IS in the breed.. these are fighting dogs and have been bred through the centuries to be animal aggressive.   The natural tendency was mostly suppressed or ignored but then something triggered this instinct and the dog acted.    The same goes for other breeds.   The "Herder" breeds WILL chase... they will chase something eventually.. as a moving object is a trigger. My Australian Shepard cannot resist chasing cars.    Hunting and tracking dogs will tend to wander and roam.    NOT all.... not every time.. but when a trigger hits at the right time these dogs will act on it.. It is beyond their control    And that is why I would never take in a pit.   I have cats and small dogs..  I know the dog would not mean to, but should one of my other animals do something that triggers aggressive behavior.. it would act..  and I'm not about to take that chance.


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