# Subtle Age Discrimination?



## QuickSilver (Jan 26, 2015)

I have group insurance through my employer even though I am Medicare eligible.  I received a letter today saying that every employee is entitled to a $50 a month discount in premiums PROVIDED we meet 4 criteria

BMI< 27

BP <130/85

Fasting Glucose < 115

Total Cholesterol < 220

Sounds great huh?  BUT...  I'm 66 years old... in fact probably one of the oldest employees here.  I think I can meet 3 out of the 4 criteria, but in order to have a BMI < 27,  I have to lose 20 pounds by March when I will have this blood work and screening done... by my company.  As stated in another thread, at our age, 20 pounds extra weight seem the norm rather than a deterrent to health..  SO I'm feeling a bit discriminated against.

I think this whole program is geared to having us older employees pay more for our health insurance than the younger ones... because we just may end up costing them some money..  I'm not really feeling they have our best health interests at the heart of this... but their pocketbooks..    Somehow this smells a bit illegal..   especially with the pre-existing condition clause of the ACA..  what do you think?


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 26, 2015)

They probably put those things in so they won't have to give too many discounts, and they can blame it on the employee themselves.  I don't think you can really say age is a factor they considered on purpose or anything, there are a lot of 60 year olds that are skinny pickles, were that way all their lives.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 26, 2015)

But I just think it's harder for an older adult, in general to meet those criteria, than a 20, 30 or even a 40 year old.


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## AZ Jim (Jan 26, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> But I just think it's harder for an older adult, in general to meet those criteria, than a 20, 30 or even a 40 year old.



I am not so sure about that QS.  Lots of the overweight are young.  Probably more young than old actually.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 26, 2015)

I agree that it is the younger generation that are the most overweight. The company is probably giving the discount using that criteria because those people will likely cost them less for insurance claims. 

Losing the 20 lbs. will do you a lot more good than just the $50.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 26, 2015)

It is harder to lose when we're older QS.  Honestly, I'm not sure about those recommended BMI numbers either.  Maybe having such a low number, in your particular case, is not the healthiest thing to do, I don't know.  Your personal health and well being comes first.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 26, 2015)

27 is not a particularly low BMI. 25 to 30 is overweight and over 30 is obese.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 26, 2015)

I have already LOST 35 pounds.... that last 20 is NOT coming off no matter what I do...  So looks like I'm on the hook for an added $50 a month..  Rather than being rewarded for my success... I'm being punished for my failure.  That's how I feel   and They will hear about it..  every chance I get.

hahaha  AND to add insult to injury... I get to be "coached" by some 30 something twit on how to lose the weight and achieve my.... I mean their "goal"..   That ought to go over really well.... I can assure you..   She is going to call me and "talk" to me about it...  oh joy.


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## ClassicRockr (Jan 26, 2015)

IMO, could be just another age discrimination thing.......just like some employers do when our age bracket is looking for a part-time job. 

Heck, next criteria will be you have to be a non-smoker to get the $50 discount! I don't smoke, but for those in our age bracket that do........


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## QuickSilver (Jan 26, 2015)

ClassicRockr said:


> IMO, could be just another age discrimination thing.......just like some employers do when our age bracket is looking for a part-time job.
> 
> Heck, next criteria will be you have to be a non-smoker to get the $50 discount! I don't smoke, but for those in our age bracket that do........



Oh that's been the case here for YEARS....  you cannot smoke and get that discount.   This is the first time we have had to be a certain weight.


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## flowerchild (Jan 26, 2015)

We have that at my work too. Smoking is one on our list, that's not on yours. But...if we fail 3 out of the 5 we have to have a letter from our doc stating we are working on a remedy.
I DO think this is discrimination. I believe it's the insurance companies doing this. Gov has eliminated pre-conditions, so here is there work around, employers are to have wellness programs intact to curb the cost.
And...I don't think it's any of my employers business what my medical stats are. I've read several people across the states are suing over this. 
Infringing on my privacy and discriminating with a penalty is part of the flawed ACA!


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## QuickSilver (Jan 26, 2015)

flowerchild said:


> We have that at my work too. Smoking is one on our list, that's not on yours. But...if we fail 3 out of the 5 we have to have a letter from our doc stating we are working on a remedy.
> I DO think this is discrimination. I believe it's the insurance companies doing this. Gov has eliminated pre-conditions, so here is there work around, employers are to have wellness programs intact to curb the cost.
> And...I don't think it's any of my employers business what my medical stats are. I've read several people across the states are suing over this.
> Infringing on my privacy and discriminating with a penalty is part of the flawed ACA!




YES!!  That's another thing... it IS a total infringement on my privacy.  Whatever happened to privacy rights and things being between a patient and their doctor?  I don't think that they need to even KNOW my weight and BMI... or lab values... let alone dictate what they should be.


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## ClassicRockr (Jan 26, 2015)

Now, now, now......let's not get too carried away with what employers don't need to know! 

Heath stats are pretty important to any employer.

Look at it this way, if *YOU* owned a company, wouldn't you want to know just how healthy your employees were? I mean, you would need to know if a person can ,physically and/or mentally, handle the job they are doing or about to do. That is why companies give pre-employment physicals. That is also why some companies give "competency" test prior to employment. To a point, some things that people might consider "privacy", a company can't, and won't, consider some things "private". The mental and physical status of employee's, sometimes, not always however, does come into being depending on the job a person is looking for.

Heck, at my last job, I had to work with a guy that had dyslexia and would transpose numbers in our warehouse! He would receive some products in, put in one location, but write down a different location on a report. That report would come to me and I done the data entry into the computer inventory module. We wouldn't know anything happened until I'd issue the product out of the computer and the product wasn't in the location he wrote down! This company didn't give a "competency" test, so they couldn't find out about his problem that way. Anyway, got to be a real headache for me until he was let go for some drug use on a vacation he went on. We had random drug testing and he got picked when he got back from his vacation. 

So, do companies need to know the physical/mental "well-being" of it's employees.......in one word, yes! Just like you would if you owned a company.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 26, 2015)

ClassicRockr said:


> Now, now, now......let's not get too carried away with what employers don't need to know!
> 
> Heath stats are pretty important to any employer.
> 
> ...



So they can discriminate in hiring... maybe let the sick ones go?   OR out price them in benefits... So only the healthy ones are given company insurance?  No.. they don't need to know..   I think that's just opening the door for more Corporate shenanigans


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## ClassicRockr (Jan 26, 2015)

As I already stated, QS, if *YOU* owned a company would *YOU* want to know the health status of *YOUR* employee's??? I mean, there health will depend on how good your company runs and *YOUR* income from *YOUR* company. 

Yes, age discrimination is there with some companies bc it is well known that the older a person gets, the more health problems that can/do come up. And, if an older person can't pass a pre-employment physical for whatever reason, they don't get the job! 

Really, bottom line is: companies have to protect themselves. Companies have to lay down Policies/Rules for mental and health or they will go out of business.


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## Don M. (Jan 26, 2015)

Obesity is the Number One cause of Health Care costs in this nation....according to the CDC.  They claim that health issues caused by being overweight are costing this nation over 250 billion dollars a year.  If we are EVER going to bring health care costs down in this nation, it is going to require some effort on the part of the face we all see in the mirror.  

There are a few people who have a medical issue...thyroid problems, for example....that causes their metabolism to get out of whack and makes them gain excess weight, but the vast majority of those who are overweight are that way because of the lack of the proper balance of diet and exercise.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 26, 2015)

ClassicRockr said:


> As I already stated, QS, if *YOU* owned a company would *YOU* want to know the health status of *YOUR* employee's??? I mean, there health will depend on how good your company runs and *YOUR* income from *YOUR* company.
> 
> Yes, age discrimination is there with some companies bc it is well known that the older a person gets, the more health problems that can/do come up. And, if an older person can't pass a pre-employment physical for whatever reason, they don't get the job!
> 
> Really, bottom line is: companies have to protect themselves. Companies have to lay down Policies/Rules for mental and health or they will go out of business.



Because employers feel this entitlement... ALL the MORE reason to uncouple health insurance from employers and go staight single payor with Medicare for ALL.


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## oldman (Jan 28, 2015)

At my daughter's place of employment, they offer discounts for non-smokers and hefty fines, including termination for those that state they do not smoke, but are found to smoke through testing. 

Some airlines at one time had considered and did charge extra for over-weight people and some airlines even put people off their planes because of being over-weight. This had really upset me at one time, but then I had a 550 pound passenger come on-board and no one could sit next to him. It was a three-seat row combination, so we lost two seats. The FA asked me what to do. I told her that it was the gate agent's job to take care of these problems until the doors closed. I didn't want to pass the buck, but our union had told us not to get involved with company policies that could discriminate and although, weight is not considered a discrimination issue by the government mandates, I thought it best to let the gate agent handle it. The gate agent pulled the man off of my plane and then I understood why some airlines wanted some passengers to buy additional seating. This man was huge. When I returned to that city, which I believe was Las Vegas, I asked the gate agent how he handled it. He said the man went obligingly, but when he told him that he had to purchase two extra tickets, he went from cold to hot in about 1.2 seconds. He said the man walked away and he didn't know what he did after that. I thought the gate agent handled it poorly and I told him so. If we were going to pull a person or persons off of a plane, we should be responsible enough to see that they get a flight to their destination. I raised so much stink over this that the company did change their policy. After all, our slogan at one time was, "Come fly the friendly skies of United." The skies aren't so friendly, if we are kicking passengers off of airplanes and letting them stuck at the airport with no way home.


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## ClassicRockr (Jan 28, 2015)

Sometimes discrimination has to be done.........like it or not. A lot of people will yell "discrimination" in order to try and get what they want. Other times, discrimination is very and real and there. Some of the younger generation say that 55+ Communities are discrimination bc they only allow people who are 55 and older to live there.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 28, 2015)

Oldman, I wonder about tour post about the 550lb man. You said the gate agent who pulled him off your plane should have seen that he got a fight to his destination. Wouldn't that mean putting the man on a plane? If it's not okay for the man to fly on your plane why would it be okay for him to fly on another?


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## QuickSilver (Jan 28, 2015)

ClassicRockr said:


> Sometimes discrimination has to be done.........like it or not. A lot of people will yell "discrimination" in order to try and get what they want. Other times, discrimination is very and real and there. Some of the younger generation say that 55+ Communities are discrimination bc they only allow people who are 55 and older to live there.




So tell me... If you support discrimination  in the availability of healthcare to people who are in a high risk category... what do you propose?   How do these people, who really need it,  get care?  Do you have an alternative?..... I mean other than letting them go without care..  Is that what Jesus would have proposed?


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## ClassicRockr (Jan 28, 2015)

QS, I have no idea bc I don't have anything to do with running our government. All I would figure is that most companies want employees that are healthy enough so they can do their job and do it right. If I were to look for a part-time job now, there are certain jobs that I know for a fact that I can no longer do bc of my hip replacement and rotator cuff surgeries. I can no longer lift heavy stuff or stand for long periods of time, so I wouldn't even think about looking for a job where I had to do either. 

Yes, there is definitely "job discrimination" out there for older people, but that is just the way it is. Just like companies that want healthy people working for them. Can't blame them for what they want. And, like anything else, we can complain all we want about healthcare, but can't do anything about it. The U.S. Government isn't going to give out "free" healthcare........that just isn't going to happen. 



QuickSilver said:


> So tell me... If you support discrimination  in the availability of healthcare to people who are in a high risk category... what do you propose?   How do these people, who really need it,  get care?  Do you have an alternative?..... I mean other than letting them go without care..  Is that what Jesus would have proposed?


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## rkunsaw (Jan 28, 2015)

Drivers who are "high risk" have to pay more for auto insurance. Borrowers who are "high risk" have to pay higher interest rates (if they can even get a loan). Why shouldn't "high risk" people pay more for health insurance.


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## ClassicRockr (Jan 28, 2015)

Good point!



rkunsaw said:


> Drivers who are "high risk" have to pay more for auto insurance. Borrowers who are "high risk" have to pay higher interest rates (if they can even get a loan). Why shouldn't "high risk" people pay more for health insurance.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 28, 2015)

ClassicRockr said:


> QS, I have no idea bc I don't have anything to do with running our government. All I would figure is that most companies want employees that are healthy enough so they can do their job and do it right. If I were to look for a part-time job now, there are certain jobs that I know for a fact that I can no longer do bc of my hip replacement and rotator cuff surgeries. I can no longer lift heavy stuff or stand for long periods of time, so I wouldn't even think about looking for a job where I had to do either.
> 
> Yes, there is definitely "job discrimination" out there for older people, but that is just the way it is. Just like companies that want healthy people working for them. Can't blame them for what they want. And, like anything else, we can complain all we want about healthcare, but can't do anything about it. The U.S. Government isn't going to give out "free" healthcare........that just isn't going to happen.



So then you are in favor of Universal Healthcare, or Medicare for ALL?  Because YES.. we CAN do   Because, if it's ok for employers to deny health coverage to employees who are sick or who they feel will become sick.. then the only other alternative is for the taxpayer to fund Universal Healthcare..  OR let them die.  AND I am asking you, are you ok with that?


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## Don M. (Jan 28, 2015)

rkunsaw said:


> Drivers who are "high risk" have to pay more for auto insurance. Borrowers who are "high risk" have to pay higher interest rates (if they can even get a loan). Why shouldn't "high risk" people pay more for health insurance.



Exactly!  Those who refuse to alter their lifestyles so as to become less of a burden to our Health Care system Should be charged higher premiums.  However, our present system is more dedicated to making money off these people than it is to helping them become more healthy.  "Prevention" is a very small part of our present system, and there is little or no incentive for doing otherwise....it is far more profitable to "treat" than it is to "prevent".  This is another good argument for going to a SP-UHC system, such as the European nations use.  The nations with such systems don't have many of the issues our people have to deal with...they have learned the Wisdom of Prevention, and thus, don't have to spend the 100's of billions we do to support our misguided and bloated system.


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## ClassicRockr (Jan 28, 2015)

Well, I just don't know what to say! One thing I do know, just like any top professionals, doctors have to be paid and depending on what the doctor is treating, the costs will be high. Another thing, medical staff generally have to have a college degree and paying for college for so many years to get that degree isn't cheap either. 

Yes, it would be great if everyone in America could have healthcare, but...........

Then there are those that have more healthcare than they need! My brother has the VA, Medicare and his Retirement healthcare and only uses the VA. He pays every month for Medicare, but never uses it. 

As for a job, more and more employers look for healthy new employee's to work for them. And, yes, if a person's health isn't good enough, an employer can "pull back" his job offer. He doesn't have to tell you that your not healthy enough to work for him, finding this out thru a pre-employment physical, so he will just tell you something else is wrong.


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## oldman (Jan 28, 2015)

rkunsaw said:


> Oldman, I wonder about tour post about the 550lb man. You said the gate agent who pulled him off your plane should have seen that he got a fight to his destination. Wouldn't that mean putting the man on a plane? If it's not okay for the man to fly on your plane why would it be okay for him to fly on another?



Because unlike my airline, other airlines have no restrictions. U.S. Air and American are two that come readily to mind. My point was that I didn't think it was right, or maybe the better word would be honorable thing to do was to make sure he got a ride to his destination. Maybe some people would think, "T.S. If he wants to be grossly over-weight, then let him pay the consequences." I don't live my life like that and NO, I am not forcing my values on someone else, but we all have issues. None of us are perfect. So, if this over-weight man gets dumped from his seat, the honorable thing to do would be to make sure that he is not stranded and gets a ride to his destination. It's just one person helping another and keeping your name out of the newspaper.


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## pchrise (Feb 4, 2015)

Wow!  All the new rules ,  After Tue I fix  one thing and no plans to be on medicare or whatever, if pushed on it still do not care .  No more doctors for me.


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## AZ Jim (Feb 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Oh that's been the case here for YEARS....  you cannot smoke and get that discount.   This is the first time we have had to be a certain weight.



Ironically cessation of smoking brings with it weight gain...


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## QuickSilver (Feb 4, 2015)

I'm guessing they know that...  lol!   Hence the rules.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 4, 2015)

I guess there's a fine line between charging unhealthy employees the same rate for insurance, and giving healthy employees a discount.  They didn't raise the cost of the insurance for those who didn't meet the requirements for the discount, did they?


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## QuickSilver (Feb 4, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> I guess there's a fine line between charging unhealthy employees the same rate for insurance, and giving healthy employees a discount.  They didn't raise the cost of the insurance for those who didn't meet the requirements for the discount, did they?



I don't see a difference... Those not able to meet the requirements still pay more than those that do..


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 4, 2015)

But it's not more than you were paying initially, right?  The discount is a reward for the healthier employees?


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