# So proud of america for going after isis  ...and i am against war



## Elyzabeth (Aug 10, 2014)

I was against out going to Iraq or against any war, but there are legitimate exception's

 such as the Second World War, that was defensive and necessary. 

ISIS makes the Taliban  look like child's play

they are crucifying and beheading  people, lining up civilians and killing them , they are the most brutal and at this point,

 the most well funded terrorist organization in existence.

 They want to set up a Caliphate, which is to be ruled by those same extreme and brutal terrorists. 


  They   as dangerous as the  Nazi's were, and for the first time in quite awhile I see Obama taking action,

which is both necessary and justified. 

HOORAY for America !!!


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## Twixie (Aug 10, 2014)

Yes..I mirror your sentiments...the cruelty is breathtaking..

Trouble is, the Middle East is becoming like one of those ''Whack a mole'' games at the fair where you hit a mole which pops out of a hole with a rubber hammer, only to find that whilst you are dealing with one..two others pop up!!

Will it ever end?


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## Rainee (Aug 10, 2014)

Its the only way, they can`t be let to keep going like this.. good on America I say..and good on all the other countries for 
helping out with food drops for these poor victims who have had to flee.. so sad life for them is awful at the moment.


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## Jackie22 (Aug 10, 2014)

Nice to see these positive comments about our country and president.


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## Justme (Aug 10, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> I was against out going to Iraq or against any war, but there are legitimate exception's
> 
> such as the Second World War, that was defensive and necessary.
> 
> ...



America would do well to crack down on Israel which is nasty too!


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## MrJim (Aug 10, 2014)

These people are so bad, all Qaeda has disavowed them.

And that is saying something.


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## MrJim (Aug 10, 2014)

Justme said:


> America would do well to crack down on Israel which is nasty too!



I think what might need to happen in order to hopefully bring peace to the ME, is for the UN to get together, revoke the statehood of Israel & create a new state called Palesrael. 

This new country would be co governed equally by both Jews & Muslims, a requirement that would be written into the constitution along with the requirement that there never be a majority of one or the other.

For the first decade or two, a multinational force could be placed there to keep the peace & deal harshly with anyone trying to disrupt it.


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## Shamhat (Aug 10, 2014)

I understand the sentiments. America is the greatest. My greatest hope is that we look out for our active and retired military. they come home to zilch.  My hubby served in Nam rest his soul. If you love what they're doing, then while they are fighting and risking their lives all over the world, let's fight to make sure they come home to proper medical care.  okay, coming home to zilch is an exaggeration. I tend to do that. there are benefits, but I propose we cut the benefits of the politicians back and at least repair the broken VA system.


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## Elyzabeth (Aug 10, 2014)

They cant possibly be compared !

Israel is fighting for it's life, and it is Hamas that is responsible for the casualties.. 

they want to keep those people being injured and killed for publicity/ PR purposes, so that they can blame Israel,

 which is why they launch their rockets from places such as schools!

Defending the lives of innocent people in Israel, who are under rocket attack  is hardly " nasty "!



Don't for a minute compare Israel  with ISIS..

 which is now burying woman and children alive, their brutality is horrendous!!!

Israel is a Democracy, and our only stable friend  The Middle East, at this point.


Shamhat, I agree with you entirely about protecting our brave men and women in the armed forces.


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## Elyzabeth (Aug 10, 2014)

Mr Jim,

Would never happen !


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 10, 2014)

I think the administration is doing what they can to alleviate the situation there, and help the innocent people who are victims.  Someone mentioned on a radio show that it would be nice if we sent in some people secretly to take out ISIS completely, that would be ideal.  As far as Israel, from what I know, they have been occupying land for years now, which rightfully belongs to the Palestinians.  This is the main cause of all the turmoil in Gaza.  There are far more innocent Palestinians being murdered, in the ongoing fight to gain back their land.


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## Twixie (Aug 10, 2014)

Justme said:


> America would do well to crack down on Israel which is nasty too!



America will never crack down on Israel..


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## MrJim (Aug 10, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> They cant possibly be compared !
> 
> Israel is fighting for it's life, and it is Hamas that is responsible for the casualties..
> 
> ...



But remember, Palestine was an Arab, Muslim land for over 1,000 years prior to the British & the UN taking it away from them & creating the state of Israel on their land.

I think anyone would be fighting mad if that had been done to them.

I'm no anti-Semite, but annexing & partitioning Palestine after the end of WWII was a bad idea that we are now living with the consequences of.


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## Twixie (Aug 10, 2014)

MrJim said:


> But remember, Palestine was an Arab, Muslim land for over 1,000 years prior to the British & the UN taking it away from them & creating the state of Israel on their land.
> 
> I think anyone would be fighting mad if that had been done to them.
> 
> I'm no anti-Semite, but annexing & partitioning Palestine after the end of WWII was a bad idea that we are now living with the consequences of.



I don't think so..they have lived together in peace for  60 years..it is the uprising of radical Muslims we should be afraid of..


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## Bee (Aug 10, 2014)

MrJim said:


> But remember, Palestine was an Arab, Muslim land for over 1,000 years prior to the British & the UN taking it away from them & creating the state of Israel on their land.
> 
> I think anyone would be fighting mad if that had been done to them.
> 
> I'm no anti-Semite, but annexing & partitioning Palestine after the end of WWII was a bad idea that we are now living with the consequences of.



I agree completely Mr.JIm.

People seem to forget about the Zionists who were/are terroists in their own right.

Lets not forget the Stern gang and the Irgun.


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## Davey Jones (Aug 10, 2014)

Twixie said:


> America will never crack down on Israel..



Maybe you havnt noticed but Obama is really pis##d at Isreal lately.


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## Denise1952 (Aug 10, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I think the administration is doing what they can to alleviate the situation there, and help the innocent people who are victims.  Someone mentioned on a radio show that it would be nice if we sent in some people secretly to take out ISIS completely, that would be ideal.  As far as Israel, from what I know, they have been occupying land for years now, which rightfully belongs to the Palestinians.  This is the main cause of all the turmoil in Gaza.  There are far more innocent Palestinians being murdered, in the ongoing fight to gain back their land.



I know what you are saying Seabreeze, but the first thing that comes to my mind (which maybe shouldn't be the first thing out of my mouth) is doesn't America rightly belong to the Indians or is that different?  Nations have been overpowering nations forever.  Do the Palestinians have some sort of Land Grant that gives them more ownership then other peoples of the Earth?  You know me, I don't know a lot, so I have to ask because in my mind, it seems so illogical, or logical, depending on, Denise


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## Davey Jones (Aug 10, 2014)

MrJim said:


> These people are so bad, all Qaeda has disavowed them.
> 
> And that is saying something.


 \
 I don't believe that and if anything they do support ISIS in some way since they both want to destroy democracy and its religions.


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## Davey Jones (Aug 10, 2014)

Jackie22 said:


> Nice to see these positive comments about our country and president.




I somewhat agree but it the American "boots on the ground" that Im worried about. Obama says no but I think he'll change his mind when he has to bring those 30,000+ refuges down from the mountain back to where they cames from and who is going to protect them once they are home? They are surrounded by isis who control most of that region.

The President says "we need to protect our embassy" my question is why not just bring them home? they seem to be useless in that country(Iraq) that continues to fall apart.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 10, 2014)

nwlady said:


> I know what you are saying Seabreeze, but the first thing that comes to my mind (which maybe shouldn't be the first thing out of my mouth) is doesn't America rightly belong to the Indians or is that different?  Nations have been overpowering nations forever.  Do the Palestinians have some sort of Land Grant that gives them more ownership then other peoples of the Earth?  You know me, I don't know a lot, so I have to ask because in my mind, it seems so illogical, or logical, depending on, Denise



American Indians and Mexicans were here first.  Posts #58 and #8 in this thread may explain a bit more about the land occupation in Palestine...https://www.seniorforums.com/showthread.php/7395-Do-you-really-care/page4?highlight=palestinians  As I've said before, I've never been very politically minded, and didn't pay much attention to these issues during my working years, now that I'm retired, I'm hearing more news, alternative news and both sides of some stories.


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## Vivjen (Aug 10, 2014)

I agree Mr. Jim and Bee.
hamas may be firing rockets sometimes from protected places, but that is no excuse for destroying hundreds of houses; displacing thousands of people, and not allowing food, water, electricity and fuel in; not for rockets that Israel has a defence system for, and has blockaded the Palestinians for 8 years...

The UK will not militarily intervene with ISIS; fingers burnt too often by following US.
humanitarian aid has already started..


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## Falcon (Aug 10, 2014)

I like your thinking Elysabeth.  I fully agree.  Why ANYBODY can't see this is beyond me.


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## MrJim (Aug 10, 2014)

Bee said:


> I agree completely Mr.JIm.
> 
> People seem to forget about the Zionists who were/are terroists in their own right.
> 
> Lets not forget the Stern gang and the Irgun.



I don't think I'd heard of those two organizations, oor if I had, I'd forgottten about them.

But thanks for mentioning them.

It will be good ammo in a debate on this same subject we're having on another forum.


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## MrJim (Aug 10, 2014)

nwlady said:


> I know what you are saying Seabreeze, but the first thing that comes to my mind (which maybe shouldn't be the first thing out of my mouth) is doesn't America rightly belong to the Indians or is that different?  Nations have been overpowering nations forever.  Do the Palestinians have some sort of Land Grant that gives them more ownership then other peoples of the Earth?  You know me, I don't know a lot, so I have to ask because in my mind, it seems so illogical, or logical, depending on, Denise



Well that's a legitimate comparison, but nobody I know has ever blamed or criticized the Indians for fighting us for it.

It just so happened that we vastly outnumbered them & had superior weapons, so we won & they lost. But it's still a sad story when one considers what we did to them.

So IMO, the same should hold true for the Palestinians. They are fighting for what they rightfully consider their home. If they win, they get it back. If they lose, it remains Israel until whenever. But I can't see criticizing them for not being happy about having their land taken from them.

I wish there was a non violent way to do it though. I hate terrorism as much as anyone else.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 11, 2014)

Why can't the world just accept our unblemished leadership in all matters?  What a wonderful world it would be!


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## Warrigal (Aug 11, 2014)

:lofl: @ Ralphy.

We need an irony smiley.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 11, 2014)

Obviously, our efforts to save the world from itself goes unappreciated by some...


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## Warrigal (Aug 11, 2014)

By many, I would surmise Ralphy, especially if the end result is seen to be worse than it was before being saved.

However not by the Australians.
We always join the party, even though our contribution is small because we aren't one of the big powers.
However, we are always among the first to arrive and the last to leave.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 11, 2014)

And don't forget that the only real God is on our side, though I suppose atheistic Aussies laugh at that...


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## Warrigal (Aug 11, 2014)

Only the gods of Olympus take sides in wars.
The Devil plays both sides against the middle.

As in most things, Aussies just want to beat New Zealand. 
(Where's that irony smiley when you need it?)


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## rkunsaw (Aug 11, 2014)

Jews, Christians, and Muslims all claim that land is sacred to their religious heritage. So the fighting over that land is because of religion.

This world could be such a great place if we could just do away with religion.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 11, 2014)

Just have a Cherry Ripe and relax...


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 11, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> Jews, Christians, and Muslims all claim that land is sacred to their religious heritage. So the fighting over that land is because of religion.
> 
> This world could be such a great place if we could just do away with religion.



I agree Rkunsaw, organized religions are behind so many wars and killings in this world, and always have been.  Doing away with all of them would improve things.


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## Davey Jones (Aug 11, 2014)

I gave up religion 20 years ago and Ive never been happier.I never forced it on my kids,its their choice,not mine.
I go to church now and then cause a  person may ask me to go with them.So I guess Im not an atheist.
But once inside I have no idea what the hell Im doing in there.

So what is religion?.....the Belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
Kinda silly when ya think of of it.


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## MrJim (Aug 11, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> This world could be such a great place if we could just do away with religion.



Cannot disagree with you there.

And politics, too.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 12, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> ... This world could be such a great place if we could just do away with religion.



But nature abhors a vacuum, so what would it be replaced by?

Maybe something much worse ...


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## Davey Jones (Aug 12, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I agree Rkunsaw, organized religions are behind so many wars and killings in this world, and always have been. Doing away with all of them would improve things.



I would love to see the Pope standing in the unemployment line.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 12, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> I would love to see the Pope standing in the unemployment line.



"What was your last job?"

"Il Papa."

"What did you do in that job?"

"I was the Holy Father of the Vatican".

"Was that your job title as well?"

"I was the Pope!!! The top man, the leader of billions of Catholics!"

"Did you work last week, or did you LOOK for work last week?" 

"AARRGGHHHH!!!"

"Fill out this form and go to line #4 ..."


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## WhatInThe (Aug 12, 2014)

When going after ISIS they need to go after ANYONE fighting for their cause no matter what country or how young.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/12/australian-boy-severed-head_n_5670673.html

Do what YOU want but please keep the kids out of it. This Australian dad is turning his kid into a drone target.


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## Warrigal (Aug 12, 2014)

We are all shocked over here. Especially the boys grandfather who is an everyday Australian.

This mongrel used his brother's passport to get out of the country but he won't get back in.
It is believed that his wife, Australian born, went with him to the Middle East but where she is now is a mystery.
She must have charges to answer too.

Hard as it is to say, it would be better if the whole family perishes in their frightful cause. 
For the parents it will be punishment, for the boys, a mercy.


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## nan (Aug 12, 2014)

Agreed Dame Warrigal, If this is what religion is all about then  all  the religions can go to hell in my opinion, one of the ten commandments says thou shall not kill, what a joke, the killing has never stopped.
Man is the cruelest creature on this earth, give me animals any day.


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## WhatInThe (Aug 12, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> We are all shocked over here. Especially the boys grandfather who is an everyday Australian.
> 
> This mongrel used his brother's passport to get out of the country but he won't get back in.
> It is believed that his wife, Australian born, went with him to the Middle East but where she is now is a mystery.
> ...



This is an example of one of the primary problems of fighting a religion. You are fighting an ideology; anyone anywhere can have ideas. I don't agree with Australian politics & policy but I never pictured Australia producing radicals. But ideas and opinion are easier to develop than an army. You can wipe out an entire army and their machines and they will never fight again but ideas live on even if suppressed for decades and centuries ideas/religions life on forever.


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## Warrigal (Aug 12, 2014)

That's very true, WhatInThe. Ideas must be overcome by stronger and better ideas.
In the end peace must defeat war and love must triumph over hatred and fear because nothing else can.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 13, 2014)

But all victories over war and hate don't last long...


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## Davey Jones (Aug 13, 2014)

Dont look now but Obama just ordered a few hundred military,*AHEM*, advisors to that area.


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## Debby (Aug 13, 2014)

> 'Its the only way, they can`t be let to keep going like this.. good on America I say..and good on all the other countries for
> helping out with food drops for these poor victims who have had to flee.. so sad life for them is awful at the moment.'





You do realize that the US has been involved in all of the Middle East turmoil, both causing it and exacerbating it,  for decades right?  And that they were arming Syrian 'rebels' (also known as al Quaeda sympathizers), some of whom have returned to Iraq to fight with ISIS.  So it could be said that America is trying to help people who are in trouble because of them.  Good for America?


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## Debby (Aug 13, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> They cant possibly be compared !
> 
> Israel is fighting for it's life, and it is Hamas that is responsible for the casualties..
> 
> ...





Sorry to disagree with you Shamhat, but I do.  I've spent months reading and researching the Palestinian/Israeli situation and Israel is as bad as Hamas!  The way they treat the entire Palestinian population be they on the WB, in E. Jerusalem or Gaza is horrific.  Unbridled brutality and oppression and all the while funded by welfare from the US.  If your government openly treated you like this, you'd be looking for help from the world even while you and yours attempted to fight back with everything you could muster.  And this has been going on for 50 years now while the world has sat by and watched and applauded.

I'm not saying Hamas are 'without sin', but Israel is sitting in the same boat as they are.


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## Davey Jones (Aug 13, 2014)

re:I'm not saying Hamas are 'without sin', but Israel is sitting in the same boat as they are. 


*EXACTLY....*


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## Fern (Aug 13, 2014)

Debby;





> You do realize that the US has been involved in all of the Middle East  turmoil, both causing it and exacerbating it,  for decades right?  And  that they were arming Syrian 'rebels' (also known as al Quaeda  sympathizers), some of whom have returned to Iraq to fight with ISIS.   So it could be said that America is trying to help people who are in  trouble because of them.  Good for America?


So true,


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## Debby (Aug 14, 2014)

Justme said:


> America would do well to crack down on Israel which is nasty too!


  I would agree with you on that.


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## Debby (Aug 14, 2014)

Twixie said:


> I don't think so..they have lived together in peace for  60 years..it is the uprising of radical Muslims we should be afraid of..




Who has lived together in peace for 60 years?

The Palestinians have been oppressed and brutalized for decades by Israel.  Food deprivation, water deprivation, abuse and humiliation by the IDF, indefinite incarcerations including of children under the age of 12 in some cases, home demolitions for no reason.....the list of atrocities is a long one.  The fact that the majority of the population have no means to fight back and just take it is a long way from living together in peace.


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## oakapple (Aug 15, 2014)

To be brutally honest, the USA and also my own country [UK] have made the mess that is now Iraq.How ironic that Islamists like ISIS are taking over. Saddam Hussein may have been a monster, but he had no time for fundamentalists. We have a duty to go to the aid of the Christians there and also a duty to wipe out ISIS.


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## romfty (Aug 16, 2014)

I don't think going  back over the years and comparing who did what to who helps at all, all our nations have made mistakes in their history, it's part of evolving.  The do gooders on our planet insist on independence and democracy for all countries.............  trouble is it is'nt that easy as we all know, democracy is an on going battle and some countries are not  ready to govern themselves, look at all the African countries that have been given back their land and the right to rule themselves.  Very few make it, they take millions in aid and build palaces and form private armies and still the homeless are homeless and the hungry are hungry!

America is taking the lead and quite rightly so,  against these animals who are  slaughtering civilians in the name of religion.............. whilst the Iraq  army is no where to be seen, after all the billions of dollars and lives lost to sort out that country................. of course we have to do something.............arm the Kurds? and what if and when they defeat IS ? will they hand back their weapons to the Iraq  army ???     I don't profess to know the answer, but I do know that these people are of a different culture to the west and have different values, they will take all we give and still turn their backs on us when it is over.

I certainly hope that none of our boys and girls ever set foot in that country again............. if we help, it has  to be from afar........... the technolgy is there.


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## Warrigal (Aug 16, 2014)

I've just finished watching the movie Khartoum and then I looked up the history.
What is happening today is nothing new in that part of the world.


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## TrickorTreat (Aug 16, 2014)

Living in the UK I often hear comments such as "American gung ho" and "trigger happy warmongers" also how Britain is just America's poodle and is not liked by Obama but you won't ever hear such criticism from my lips. I admire the American spirit and patriotism so much, What you went through after 9/11 has never been experienced by any of those countries who dare to criticise you. Thank god we have America as the watchdog of the western world, it would be a much scarier world without you. :love_heart:


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## Davey Jones (Aug 16, 2014)

oakapple said:


> To be brutally honest, the USA and also my own country [UK] have made the mess that is now Iraq.How ironic that Islamists like ISIS are taking over. Saddam Hussein may have been a monster, but he had no time for fundamentalists. We have a duty to go to the aid of the Christians there and also a duty to wipe out ISIS.



Just think how many American lives would have been saved if Saddam was still in power today,was he REALLY that bad compare to today wackos.


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## Debby (Aug 16, 2014)

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/category/articles/

This website is produced by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts.  His claim to fame and the basis of his credibility is academic appointments at Virginia Tech, Tulane University, Stanford U., Georgetown University to name only a few universities who have been privileged to work with him.    He has written for The New York Times, the National Review, Harpers, The Washington Post and the Financial Times, again, only to mention a few.  He was also the associate editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, a columnist for Business Week and was ranked by Forbes Media Guide as one of the top seven journalists in the US.  As well, during the Reagan administration he was the Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and was confirmed in office by the US Senate and after leaving the Treasury, he served as a consultant to the US Department of Defence and the US Department of Commerce.  This man has 'street cred' oozing from every atom of his being.

Sorry to say folks, he is in total disagreement with you and in his extremely qualified opinion feels that the US has gone completely off the rails and the things they used to stand for, ie. democracy, freedom, free markets, freedom of speech, etc., are a thing of the past.

A quick perusal of his articles gives you titles like:

Washington Has Placed the World on the Road to War

Washington Chokes Truth With Lies

The West is on the Wrong Path

Washington Threatens the Whole World.

(my opinion)  In the midst of a 'War on Terror' we get to watch Washington standing by as their best bud and biggest welfare recipient, Israel once again slaughters 2000 Palestinians, start a war in Iraq on the pretence of WMD, arm Al Qaeda sympathizers in Syria (who in turn have gone back to Iraq to join up with ISIS), , almost start bombing Syria (but Russia intervened and settled that 'gas' controversy without more massive bloodshed) send drones into another country (Pakistan) without permission and killing many innocent civilians and then go on to arm Neo-Nazi's (and they knew it at the time) in Ukraine.  And now they continually 'poke the Bear in the eye with a pointy stick' or more commonly known as sanctions, all the while knowing that Europe is the region that will pay that price even starting today in their economies and never mind if a third world war starts over this at which point they will really pay a bloody price.  

For some reason the world chooses to ignore all that.  Have we gotten into such a habit (due to not really knowing what was going on?) of trusting America to do good always, that we fail to note her governmental transgressions?  I have no idea.  But it seems to me since starting to read and get info away from the mainstream media and thanks to the internet, it's entirely possible to understand what is really going on with our governments.  With 95% of all war related deaths being the civilians that those governments are supposedly 'protecting', I would say it's high time we started taking notes and keeping tabs and making some serious demands on all our governments.

I seriously don't mean to offend anyone here.  As they say, "I even have American friends'.  And I assure you that as a Canadian and particularly now as our Prime Minister ignores the environment and makes every effort to poke 'the Bear' with his little twig.....I'm not setting our Canadian politicians on any pedestal.  My PM, Foreign Affairs Minister and whomever else in my government that is appropriate hear my opinion on various issues quite regularly.  I once joked that I have their 'offices on speed dial' as they tend to hear from this voter quite a lot.

So while it's nice to hope/think that there is some stability somewhere in the world, I think it's critical to question it, read between the lines and trust nothing that comes out of the government.  There are always strings attached that we fail to see until maybe it's too late.


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## Debby (Aug 16, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Just think how many American lives would have been saved if Saddam was still in power today,was he REALLY that bad compare to today wackos.



That's an excellent point Davey.  I actually heard a discussion on Sirius Radio (can't remember which show) where the one guy suggested that at least Saddam Hussein kept individuals like those who make up ISIS and that sort of crowd under control.  His methods were brutal, his regime corrupt but that region did seem to be quieter than it is now.  So you aren't the only one who's had that thought.


As for going back to 'fix things', hmmm, will anything ever fix that area if the Western world doesn't get it's act together and quit meddling?  I'm not sure about that.


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## Debby (Aug 16, 2014)

TrickorTreat said:


> Living in the UK I often hear comments such as "American gung ho" and "trigger happy warmongers" also how Britain is just America's poodle and is not liked by Obama but you won't ever hear such criticism from my lips. I admire the American spirit and patriotism so much, What you went through after 9/11 has never been experienced by any of those countries who dare to criticise you. Thank god we have America as the watchdog of the western world, it would be a much scarier world without you. :love_heart:




You might find this Americans perspective very interesting and an eye opener as well: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/category/articles/

'Thank God'.............maybe not.


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## Elyzabeth (Aug 16, 2014)

That warms my heart !
I'm an American, living in Bristol, and I get so tired of hearing people over here
 tearing  America down !

America is far from perfect, but when really needed, it does come through.

 ISIS is the biggest threat that we have faced since the Nazi's .. same brutal barbaric mentality..
 and they want to take over the world, and subject everyone to their twisted demonic thinking. 

All countries should be rushing to oppose them !!!

Why are they not?

They're on vacation!


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## TrickorTreat (Aug 17, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> That warms my heart !
> I'm an American, living in Bristol, and I get so tired of hearing people over here
> tearing  America down !
> 
> ...



Hi Elyzabeth, as you say, America is far from perfect, but if I were to criticise any country yours would certainly not be at the top of my list. The first would be the so-called mighty EU, where is the support badly needed to supress the endless march of ISIS through Syria and Iraq and the mass genocide taking place?  you are so right when you say it is a replication of the brutal Nazi's, and it astounds me when anyone dare criticize any country's efforts to halt this march.

 Look, I am a wife, mum and grandma living in the country where I was born and living my life the best I can, I don't for one minute pretend that I know half of what is going on in the middle east apart from what I read in the newspaper and see on the news, however, I am not stupid either, I see the horror of what is being inflicted on the innocents, I see what is happening and what is being done to try and stop it.

 All one ever hears on any action taken to help seems to come everytime from the USA and the UK. 
I get so sick of armchair critics here in the UK sitting on their backsides waving their anti-war flags slagging off our two countries for having the balls to step forward in taking on the islamic state terrorists with their vile warped, tunnel vision aim to control first the whole of the middle east and eventual control of the world. From day one when our previous government opened our borders wide and allowed all to enter, when anyone dared to protest when our laws, our way of life, our christian religion - were insulted by radicals posing as "minority groups" playing the multicultural card and demanding such as Sharia law in this country, we were threatened with being hauled before the courts as racists if we dared to utter a word of protest. Up came the racist card immediately.

 We were shackled, blindfolded with a gag across our mouths whilst  vile speakers such as Hamza and others were allowed to infiltrate, corrupt and brain-wash our own muslim youngsters to give up their democratic way of life and be radicilised and turned into terrorists, both abroad and here on our own british streets. And yet, these foolish armchair critics still sit there  daring to criticise those doing their damnest to protect us. We now have the danger of being attacked in our own country and yet if this were to happen, they would still blame the USA and the UK for "interferring",  talk about appeasement !!! I really despair for us all.


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## Debby (Aug 17, 2014)

TrickorTreat said:


> Hi Elyzabeth, as you say, America is far from perfect, but if I were to criticise any country ............... We now have the danger of being attacked in our own country and yet if this were to happen, they would still blame the USA and the UK for "interferring",  talk about appeasement !!! I really despair for us all.




Hey TrickorTreat,

I think there are probably very few who would argue with you on the need to stop ISIS.  I also think that the criticism that is levelled at the US has more to do with the attitude of imperialism that is practised by that administration over many, many decades.  No other country in the world has military situated in over 100 countries in the world.

No other country is spending taxpayer dollars arming terrorists, all the while proclaiming the need for a war on terror,  except the USA, even while they change and eliminate the civil rights of their own citizens.  They trained and armed Osama Bin Laden, they armed Saddam Hussein, they armed the rebels in Syria, many of which are Al Qaeda sympathizers some of whom have apparently returned to Iraq to fight alongside ISIS.  They armed and financed neo-Nazi thugs in the take-down of an elected government in Ukraine, and they continue to support that government with lies that have been exposed at least a couple of times. 

 They also have a history of putting in place governments to support their own ends despite the subsequent revelations that these governments were vile and corrupt.  Hosni Mobaruk of Egypt springs to mind.  He was theirs for years.  Just like Saddam Hussein was their guy for years.  And for decades, they've supported Israel with funds and silence in Israel's oppression of the Palestinian people.

Here's a link to a website of a man with world class credentials in the fields of government and journalism(check out his About page).  http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/category/articles/  Dr. Paul Craig Roberts has numerous articles on his site that pinpoint the numerous bad acts of the American administration.  And from his very worthy credentialed perspective, Dr. Roberts fears the American push towards some form of Third World War.  And you should know that if that war comes in whatever form, Europe and Britain will feel the pain more (at least in the beginning) than America will.

Watching the news and reading your newspaper accomplishes little save you the public, hearing only what the government wants you to hear.  If you actually are interested in what is happening in the world, that will seriously impact us all, it's necessary to go instead to alternate news sources.  Global Research is one good site as is another called Zero Hedge.  Links to these two sites are:  http://www.zerohedge.com   and    http://www.globalresearch.ca

I think with so much 'news' from around the globe available these days and the 24 hour news cycle, it's extremely easy to lose track of who's doing what and why and who got caught doing what and why and particularly when it comes to governmental shenanigans.  What we get from mainstream media these days is actually more accurately 'marketing'.  And while we've learned to be suspicious of corporate marketing (is there really that much chicken in the chicken noodle soup?), I think we need to begin applying that same suspicion to our governments wherever they are and no matter what they say.

It should also be noted that as early as 1991, the US intended to disrupt the Middle East.  Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya and a fifth (can't remember the name) were in their crosshairs.  So says General Wesley Clark in this talk he gave:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5q9PYy1NoA

Perhaps now it's a little clearer on where the criticism stems.


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## TrickorTreat (Aug 17, 2014)

Debby said:


> Hey TrickorTreat,
> 
> I think there are probably very few who would argue with you on the need to stop ISIS.  I also think that the criticism that is levelled at the US has more to do with the attitude of imperialism that is practised by that administration over many, many decades.  No other country in the world has military situated in over 100 countries in the world.  No other country is spending taxpayer dollars arming terrorists, all the while proclaiming the need for a war on terror,  except the USA, even while they change and eliminate the civil rights of their own citizens.
> 
> ...



Hi Debby, I would like you to know that I fully respect your views regarding the USA, but again with respect, Dr Paul Craig Roberts' views are just that, the view of one man, so what gives any one man, or anyone for that matter, the right to assume their view of what is happening as being the correct one? 

It is so easy to blame the USA for everything that has gone wrong in the world but as the most powerful nation and our main protector of the gateway to the freedoms and democracy that you and I have enjoyed and taken for granted all of our lives, all I am saying is that I am proud they are there to protect us regardless of past mistakes. I refuse to go along with the armchair critics notion that the USA should hold up their hands in submission and allow pure evil to simply walk through to contaminate the rest of us.

I am and always have been anti-war but even someone such as me with my limited knowledge of Middle Eastern affairs cannot fail to see what is happening right now and how fast it is happening. I am seeing with my own eyes what is going on, Terrorism on an unprecedented scale the likes of which we have never seen before is unfolding  before our eyes and I will not be party to backing anyone who would allow this filth to take over our shores. The USA have already endured the horror of 9/11 as have the UK with 7/7 and the killing of a British soldier walking on a British street in London.

 If the terrorists have their way this is just a foretaste of the horror to come and I don't doubt for a minute that it could not be being planned already, therefore I back anyone and anything that will stop them. I cannot undo past mistakes made, nobody can no matter how bad and how terrible the toll, I can only worry about now, how we have home-grown terrorists already within our midst brainwashed into just waiting for the word to act on behalf of these madmen.

I thank god that we have the USA willing and able to sacrifice their beloved sons and daughters to fight at the front with our own brave troops alongside them, to stem the tide of such evil not witnessed since the dark days of Nazism tried to do the same. 
God bless America, I am thankful for them.


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## Debby (Aug 17, 2014)

TrickorTreat said:


> Hi Debby, I would like you to know that I fully respect your views regarding the USA, ...........such evil not witnessed since the dark days of Nazism tried to do the same.
> God bless America, I am thankful for them.




When you see an individual doing something bad/illegal and that will compromise your life or your families, do you just turn away and ignore it?  Or do you A. call them on their behaviour  or B. call the authorities?  Given the issues that Dr. Roberts brings up (and please be assured, there are many, very intelligent people who follow the dealings of world governments and economics minutely, who have the very same concerns so it's not just his opinion) any one of which has the potential to impact the planet very seriously, should we not be letting that government know that they aren't operating in secret?

What is happening in the Middle East is a case of the 'American Finger in the Pie syndrome' going on.  I was reading another article that was talking about how Quatar is funding ISIS and yet the US 'is on a first name basis' with that country!  I said to my husband as I was reading that if you had a program the appropriate size so that you could keep track of who is 'in' with whom and who is funding whom and who is not, it would have to be enormous.  It's getting harder by the day to keep track of all of that because it is a tangled web of intrigue and America is involved with all of them, including ISIS to some degree.  And the UK plane coming down is looking more and more like the Americans were involved with that too inasmuch as they supported, funded and weaponized the current government when they were attempting to overthrow the elected government previous to it.  Malaysia is already opining that the plane was shot down by fighter jets and Ukraine won't release any of the radar images from that moment. http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/09/mala-a09.html 

I believe America should stop picking fights with other countries, they should stop meddling in governments and overthrowing them (and I fail to see how that goes along with 'protecting Democracy'), they should stop seeking to manipulate other countries and their own, politics and economics in an effort to protect their status as the holder of the privilege of being the worlds reserve currency country.  I heard one guy refer to their reserve currency status as a 'privilege' that they have squandered as they printed money to slow down the slide to loosing it and brought on by their allowing derivatives to ruin economies around the world.  That administration makes a pretence of getting along with the world but they've caused economic crashes, been the death of (according to a study out of a university in Washington http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131015-iraq-war-deaths-survey-2013/)half a million people and direct violence alone accounts for about 145,000 and now in Ukraine the deaths of civilians who are being taken out by neo-Nazi thugs that America supported.

We should be asking ourselves, how much of this would be going on in the Middle East if America hadn't been manipulating for lo these many decades?  

If we turn our faces away and say nothing, are we not giving assent to this kind of negative behaviour?  But hey, if you are comfortable with that, that's up to you.  I on the other hand, feel uncomfortable with that philosophy.  I'm more of a 'call it like I see it' person.  And dare I say it, the Jews of Germany would have appreciated a few more people 'calling it like it was', at the time.

Might I suggest a quick perusal of the following article:   http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-is...ted-by-the-us-israel-and-saudi-arabia/5396171   and you will see what I mean about the tangled involvements over there.  Have a pen and paper handy so you can keep track of the connections.  It's quite interesting.


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## Debby (Aug 17, 2014)

And TrickorTreat, lest you think that I'm just into bashing America for the sake of bashing America, I'm absolutely not.  I appreciate that they and your Prime Minister had the balls to call out Israel for their continued murderous rampage in Gaza!  That was outstanding and not something that my government has really done.  And if I was in trouble in another country, I've long said that in that instance I would far rather be an American citizen because that government generally goes to bat for their citizens whereas my country has a policy of staying out of the fray beyond maybe, having the ambassador bring a toothbrush over.  

A lot of great things (like the Internet even) have come out of American ingenuity, not to mention their music and movies......but......and for the record, I am also critical of my own government about a number of things that impact our country and they hear from me on quite a regular basis about those things.  We need to start expecting the best out of the people that we elect to office instead of lowering our standards to match their behaviour.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

Our foreign policy has come back to bite us in the ass big time...


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## flphotog (Aug 18, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> I was against out going to Iraq or against any war, but there are legitimate exception's
> 
> such as the Second World War, that was defensive and necessary.
> 
> ...



The problem is we are not going after them. Our so called president is pussy footing around like he always does. He has not made an intelligent decision since he has been in office.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

Sorry, but he is stopping them in their tracks and has allowed the Kurds to retake the big dam.  He is smart to keep the public at ease by slowly intervening as the situation requires.  Even some Republicans are applauding his actions...


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## Elyzabeth (Aug 20, 2014)

Back to the most terrible terrorists we have ever seen 

...and they as bad as the Nazi's

James cameron today said, that  the beheading of journalist james foley was depraved...

How about those crucifixions dave, and the burying alive of women and children... 

Don't they rate?

Isn't it time to call back parliament from their vacations?

I notice that the depravity and terroirs of isis

 did not interfere with your own  holiday...???


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## WhatInThe (Aug 20, 2014)

Not to be little the threat posed by ISIS but I think of them as a lethal troll. They don't give a crap, they grave attention and they want to wreak as much havoc as possible. They need to spoken of in terms of a common criminal, not a political radical. Beheadings are not political speech but rather the work of psychopaths, narcissists and pr hounds. If they were charged with a crime it would be first degree murder along with depraved indifference. At least one of these terrorists needs to be captured and put on through war crimes trials then executed.

Say what you will about the initial invasion of Iraq this is now our mess to clean up. Another mess will occur but this one we should be cleaning up. People forget but we had to go over to Europe en mass two times in 25 years a century ago. Some only learning after a second or even third resounding defeat.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 21, 2014)

Yes, after the tragic end of the James Foley it seems that our efforts to withdraw and stay out will now be reversed, and quickly...


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## Debby (Aug 21, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> Back to the most terrible terrorists we have ever seen
> 
> ...and they as bad as the Nazi's
> 
> ...



Actually I believe David Cameron did cut his holiday short and Obama made a brief statement and returned to the golf course.  Hmmm, what can you say when the knife that killed Mr. Foley maybe was distributed by the CIA?   http://www.nationalreview.com/campa...ks-cameron-cancels-vacation-obama-returns-his


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## Elyzabeth (Aug 22, 2014)

FAB !!!!!

Anything done to prevent ISIS from crucifying people, beheading them and burying people alive..
I am FOR !!! 

These "people" ISIS are the enemy of everything decent in humanity

and they must be wiped out.. or they will wipe us out.. 

And, they make no secret of that!



they are just like the Natzi's


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