# Gaslighting, “The Big Lie.”



## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

*A friend asked me to start a thread about this pernicious behaviour, far more prevalent than many realise. *


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

*Gaslighting, also termed Ambient Abuse, is an extreme form of manipulation wherein the abuser attempts to brainwash an individual into doubting their own reality/memory/perceptions. The purpose is to exert power 

and control. Often absolute. Over time, the mental/emotional distortion/coercion often grows to the point the victim can no longer discern their own reality. An 

extreme example of this would be an individual falsely stating they never went to the bar on Friday, and spent the week’s food 

budget. They accuse the abused person of lying, being confused, or spending the money themselves. They may even suggest the target actually gave them the money to spend.

Gaslighters can be found in many areas of one’s life. They can affect one’s work life, either as coworkers or bosses. 

They can present as friends, lovers, often parents, grandparents, etc. The most heinous often target children who usually spend a lifetime scarred, and uncomfortable in their own skins, never  really feeling good enough, or loveable. *


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

*Personality Disorders such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and Antisocial Personality Disorder are very common among gaslighters. Perhaps some sf members 

have experiences, or thoughts  around this subject they may wish to share. In doing so, it can offer comfort or knowledge to those damaged by this toxic hell. It can also 

serve as a warning to others, previously spared this abuse, who may not realise what lies behind the surface charm, love bombing behaviours,  of possible future mates. At the very least, fellow gaslit, I hope it can offer a reality 

check, no, you are not crazy, oversensitive, lazy, ungrateful, ugly, a liar, a selfish whiny disgrace to the family etc. It is not you, it is/was the false reality fed to you by a very twisted person!  *


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## Pepper (Jun 13, 2022)

As we get older, we are more likely to get 'gaslit' by people saying things like "Oh, you forgot!  I told you that already!" when you know it was never said, or done, whatever the incident might be.  This never happened to me when I was younger.  People think they can lie to an old person and put the blame on the person for not remembering something that never happened or somesuch, causing confusion in the older person, and the younger one crowning themselves in glory for getting something over on someone else.


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## Pecos (Jun 13, 2022)

Good topic.
I have experienced it as a child with my mother and my sister, a few times during my Navy career, and at least once here on SF. 
The frightening thing is that the people who do it often come to believe their own BS and cannot understand when they get rejected. In my opinion, when it is blatant, it is always harmful.


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## Lee (Jun 13, 2022)

Interesting read Shali, I am familiar with the term gaslighting but perhaps you could elaborate on how to convince someone that you feel is being gaslighted to see it for themselves.

Obviously if someone has that powerful control over the mind of someone else it would be difficult to make them see reality.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

Lee said:


> Interesting read Shali, I am familiar with the term gaslighting but perhaps you could elaborate on how to convince someone that you feel is being gaslighted to see it for themselves.
> 
> Obviously if someone has that powerful control over the mind of someone else it would be difficult to make them see reality.


Yes, difficult indeed. Lee, I will take a little time, ponder what you have posted, and get back to you. Kudos to you for wanting to help the person affected by a gaslighter.


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## SeniorBen (Jun 13, 2022)

Some people prefer to live a lie. Just take a look at the news today. Plus, there are media outlets dedicated to lying to their viewers. It's actually part of their business model. Without the lies, they'd lose their viewers.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Some people prefer to live a lie. Just take a look at the news today. Plus, there are media outlets dedicated to lying to their viewers. It's actually part of their business model. Without the lies, they'd lose their viewers.


Brainwashing effectively blocks a person’s capacity to think for themselves. Gaslighters are masters of this sort of manipulation. One cannot make changes, unless one retains the capacity to choose. The blame lies with the perpetrator, not the victim.


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## SeniorBen (Jun 13, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> Brainwashing effectively blocks a person’s capacity to think for themselves. Gaslighters are masters of this sort of manipulation. One cannot make changes, unless one retains the capacity to choose. The blame lies with the perpetrator, not the victim.


A good example of that is Charles Manson. He "gaslit" his followers and with the help of LSD, they became completely delusional and subservient to his demands.


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## Pepper (Jun 13, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> Sure, makes sense. But, then you know the deal, to truly assess the situation that would require a professional interaction and not just an exchange of a few sentences through a message board.
> 
> *And online, with anonymous identities, there isn't even any proof that you are a licensed, practicing therapist.*
> 
> If you trust the person you are giving professional advice to, then maybe you should give that person your professional, real world credentials, so that* she knows she is dealing with a professional, rather than some 15 year old practical joking high school kid, pretending to be a false identity online.*


Et tu, Brute?


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## David777 (Jun 13, 2022)

Those with greater social intelligence, especially those that have some backgrounds in psychology and debate combined with the ability to express themselves calmly, are likely to frustrate those that communicate so to the point the gaslighting person becomes quickly becomes emotional, angry, and just shuts up.  The way some will debate on Internet communities like this are convenient places to hone one skills against ways some attempt to manipulate conversations in a list of ways.  Studying logical fallacies, and examples of such, is a wise practice if one will be joining web conversations.

In @JonSR77 posted video, it was discussed how some of these people do so without understanding they are doing so as such communication behaviors can evolve naturally among people who communicate with others easily controlled so.  As an example, she discussed deflection mechanisms that anyone that has taken a debate 101 class will recognize immediately while on web boards there are many that will easily be baited into changing a conversation with such tactics putting a conversation in a hostile sandbox the manipulator runs with.  The manipulator may do so by by making a statement they know is false and expect the other party will easily jump to defend but in doing so they in turn keep responding down that path changing the subject.  I'll just respond after a brief input that whatever is off subject and won't be baited in such a deflection.


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## Lee (Jun 13, 2022)

Shali, I do not know anyone at present who is a victim of this behaviour. I only asked because I do find the subject fascinating. I wonder too if some form of hypnosis is involved.

looking forward to your answers on this subject.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

Lee said:


> Shali, I do not know anyone at present who is a victim of this behaviour. I only asked because I do find the subject fascinating. I wonder too if some form of hypnosis is involved.
> 
> looking forward to your answers on this subject.
> 
> I am sorry to see this subject has now taken a nasty turn. Almost seems as if someone is trying to gaslight you.


Ohhh, you are perceptive. For some, therapists are a target. I agree that it is a form of hypnosis, very insidious.


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## WheatenLover (Jun 13, 2022)

I think two of my sons have gaslighted me. They no longer have any contact with me, and have blocked me from everything.

One son, who is bipolar, has said three patently false things:
1. I gave my sons fetal alcohol syndrome. He actually went to an ER and asked them to diagnose him; they refused. Can't be true because I am a teetotaler and did not drink for a decade before and 17 years after I gave birth.
2. I wrote him a letter every week, and gave it to him, that said I hated him. This, when he was a child all the way up to the present day. I have never done that.
3. I am lying about not having done that, and I know it's true because I remember it.

One son, who has treatment-resistant depression and is on the autism spectrum has often accused me of being an opioid addict. Trouble is, I don't take opioids. I am lying if I say otherwise.

He also told me that it is my fault, being so abusive, that he moved to CA. A year later, he admitted that he moved because he and his boyfriend were in love, and that it had nothing to do with me.

Both sons don't speak to me because of these accusations. They believe that they have been horribly abused all their lives, by me.

The problem with this post is that I wonder if anyone believes me. Maybe people think the lady protests too much. That's why a lot of people probably don't discuss these matters, IMO.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

WheatenLover said:


> I think two of my sons have gaslighted me. They no longer have any contact with me, and have blocked me from everything.
> 
> One son, who is bipolar, has said three patently false things:
> 1. I gave my sons fetal alcohol syndrome. He actually went to an ER and asked them to diagnose him; they refused. Can't be true because I am a teetotaler and did not drink for a decade before and 17 years after I gave birth.
> ...


I am so sorry you have had to deal with such pain. I wish I could say such behaviour is uncommon, sadly it is not. Sometimes, mental  illness can thoroughly skew a person’s perceptions. Often, 

family are the ones most affected. Through no fault of their own, a family member can be viewed as the enemy. Scapegoating at its worst. I believe you.


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## WheatenLover (Jun 13, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> I am so sorry you have had to deal with such pain. I wish I could say such behaviour is uncommon, sadly it is not. Sometimes, mental  illness can thoroughly skew a person’s perceptions. Often,
> 
> family are the ones most affected. Through no fault of their own, a family member can be viewed as the enemy. Scapegoating at its worst. I believe you.


Yes, I chalk it up to mental illness. My daughter has offered to convince one of her brothers to talk to me again. I declined the offer. Every time he decides to talk to me, he brings up my "addiction" and then bans me from everything. I am not playing that game any more.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

WheatenLover said:


> Yes, I chalk it up to mental illness. My daughter has offered to convince one of her brothers to talk to me again. I declined the offer. Every time he decides to talk to me, he brings up my "addiction" and then bans me from everything. I am not playing that game any more.


Tough decision, but wise. One of the most difficult lessons I had to learn was when to try harder, and when to fold my tent and walk away.


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## oldman (Jun 13, 2022)

I belong to another forum for pilots. Most of us are retired or have tons of experience. Probably at least a few times a week we get guys that will come on the forum and try to fake us out like they know what they’re talking about. I get confused if they are gaslighting us or just lying. They come up with some good stories, which are entertaining, but they are lying nonetheless.

Is there a fine line between lying and gaslighting?


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## Bellbird (Jun 13, 2022)

My soon to be ex is very good at gaslighting, he had me confused over the years until one day the bell went off, I felt quote relieved afterward, then it got downright annoying.and frustrating to say the least.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

oldman said:


> I belong to another forum for pilots. Most of us are retired or have tons of experience. Probably at least a few times a week we get guys that will come on the forum and try to fake us out like they know what they’re talking about. I get confused if they are gaslighting us or just lying. They come up with some good stories, which are entertaining, but they are lying nonetheless.
> 
> Is there a fine line between lying and gaslighting?


Yes, such braggadocio without harmful intent is lying but not gaslighting.


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## Tish (Jun 13, 2022)

I Have experienced it and I removed that family member from my and my children's life.
The thing I found is that they have a difficult time releasing you, it's a real power struggle for them.


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## Nathan (Jun 13, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> Personality Disorders such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and Antisocial Personality Disorder are very common among gaslighters. Perhaps some sf members have experiences, or thoughts around this subject they may wish to share. In doing so, it can offer comfort or knowledge to those damaged by this toxic hell. It can also serve as a warning to others, previously spared this abuse, who may not realise what lies behind the surface charm, love bombing ....


My ex-wife, to a "tee".   In Country & Western parlance: being involved with her was like being hit by a fast moving train.


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

*Delighted you escaped, my friend.*


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## Bella (Jun 13, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> *Gaslighting, also termed Ambient Abuse, is an extreme form of manipulation wherein the abuser attempts to brainwash an individual into doubting their own reality/memory/perceptions. The purpose is to exert power
> and control. Often absolute. Over time, the mental/emotional distortion/coercion often grows to the point the victim can no longer discern their own reality. *





Shalimar said:


> *Personality Disorders such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and Antisocial Personality Disorder are very common among gaslighters.  *


I've known a few gaslighters in my life, and no doubt they are narcissists. Obsessive-compulsive narcissist sociopaths. My advice is to run as far and as fast as you can away from them, _if you can._ Often, it's not so easy to separate yourself when they are family members.

@Shalimar  Have you seen this classic film starring Charles Boyer, Ingrid Bergman and Joseph Cotton?

From IMDb - "After the death of her famous opera-singing aunt, Paula Alquist (Ingrid Bergman) is sent to study in Italy to become a great opera singer as well. While there, she falls in love with the charming Gregory Anton (Charles Boyer). The two return to London, and Paula begins to notice strange goings-on: missing pictures, strange footsteps in the night, and gaslights that dim without being touched. As she fights to retain her sanity, her new husband's intentions come into question."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)






Bella


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## Shalimar (Jun 13, 2022)

Bella said:


> I've known a few gaslighters in my life, and no doubt they are narcissists. Obsessive-compulsive narcissist sociopaths. My advice is to run as far and as fast as you can away from them, _if you can._ Often, it's not so easy to separate yourself when they are family members.
> 
> @Shalimar  Have you seen this classic film starring Charles Boyer, Ingrid Bergman and Joseph Cotton?
> 
> ...


Yes, I have, Bella. Fascinating movie.


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## dseag2 (Jun 13, 2022)

Perhaps the ultimate example of "gaslighting".  Martha Mitchell.


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## Lee (Jun 14, 2022)

so is gaslighting the same as power of suggestion.....just taken a step further?

I can't remember the name but who was that preacher man who convinced all those people to take poison?


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## Shalimar (Jun 14, 2022)

Lee said:


> so is gaslighting the same as power of suggestion.....just taken a step further?
> 
> I can't remember the name but who was that preacher man who convinced all those people to take poison?


Very similar indeed. I believe you mean Jim Jones?


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## Nathan (Jun 14, 2022)

Lee said:


> so is gaslighting the same as power of suggestion.....just taken a step further?In my experience


In my experience with a gaslighter it was simply a denial of the truth, and spinning a false reality cover story.  That's the ultimate cruelty, inflicting doubt and distrust of a person's perception of reality.


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## Shalimar (Jun 14, 2022)

*Lee, in response to your earlier question re how to convince a person they are suffering from gaslighting, one initial approach is to work with them devising a behavioural 

chart. Listing all the cruel and reality distorting remarks/actions perpetrated by the abuser, and having the victim see it in black and white, can be the first step in 

deprogramming. Then we introduce the REAL perspective, incorporating actual events, logic, the  perpetrator‘s often 

blatantly  ludicrous hijacking of obvious reality. Then, we list the abuse.D’s reactions, doubts, confusions, their recollections of the truth. Often, they begin to see the pattern for what it is, a vile and mind destroying alternate 

reality. Reinforcing the fact that this force fed reality is specious, that none of this is their fault, that they are BELIEVED, is immensely powerful. Next, the long and 

arduous task of recovery begins. Does this work with everyone? Sadly, no. Some are simply too damaged. But, for some, it provides a candle in the pit, and a map out of 

Hell. How do I know? I have travelled this journey also, skiing on my nose in the gravel, until I could walk on an emotional razor blade, ripping away the pain, in order to  be free. To
all who walk this journey, never give up. You deserve freedom. I believe in you. *


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 14, 2022)

oldman said:


> I belong to another forum for pilots. Most of us are retired or have tons of experience. Probably at least a few times a week we get guys that will come on the forum and try to fake us out like they know what they’re talking about. I get confused if they are gaslighting us or just lying. They come up with some good stories, which are entertaining, but they are lying nonetheless.
> 
> Is there a fine line between lying and gaslighting?


It's a fat line, in my opinion, though the master manipulators are great at lying too.  But in the case of gaslighters, they are trying to make you believe you are the guilty one, the crazy one.  They are so good at it.  The family counselor told me my husband had narcissistic personality disorder (and something else) and that I should get out ASAP.  I didn't listen.

During marriage, when I felt threatened, I filed police reports on my ex (filled out by responding officers) and just signed by me unread.  When I finally went to the station to read them after dear hubby filed for divorce, you would swear that *he* was the one who called because of being threatened and victimized!  He evidently told them very convincing lies.

When we got to divorce court, he tried to portray me as the crazy one.  He stated that I even faxed the divorce-related documents from a psychiatrist's office.  Duh- fortunately, I was able to shoot that lie down by telling the Magistrate, "that's where my daughter (his step-daughter) has worked for 8 years and she is the one with access to a fax machine."


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## Jeni (Jun 14, 2022)

Tish said:


> I Have experienced it and I removed that family member from my and my children's life.
> The thing I found is that they have a difficult time releasing you, it's a real power struggle for them.


One of the common things I have seen in friends that perhaps cut family off etc was this behavior ... 
I too removed this type from my children and they cannot even after years seem to let it go............ always hoping for an in to sneak back into our lives....

I have found many people actually help (perhaps unintentionally ) the gas lighting by saying things like ..... 

"oh i think you took that wrong or out of context, your too sensitive or reading too much into it " 
 breaking free or cutting them out  is very hard when others try to explain away the issue by giving the gas lighter the benefit of doubt. 

I watched a very interesting video on you tube on shutting down a narcissist and since using those techniques the person has gone full throttle upping the gas lighting attempts....
 since they are in overdrive now those around me who used to give benefit of doubt to this person NOW see it clearly.


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## Tish (Jun 14, 2022)

Jeni said:


> One of the common things I have seen in friends that perhaps cut family off etc was this behavior ...
> I too removed this type from my children and they cannot even after years seem to let it go............ always hoping for an in to sneak back into our lives....
> 
> I have found many people actually help (perhaps unintentionally ) the gas lighting by saying things like .....
> ...


Yep, I couldn't agree with you more.


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## Jan14 (Jun 14, 2022)

Gaslighters lie and deny what you know to be true, even if there is physical evidence.  If it’s a loved one ie. a spouse, this behavior is repeated over and over.  Plus they treat you as though your are crazy and the problem is you.  After enough of this abuse you can start to doubt your own reality. It’s a cruel form of mental s use.  Addicts and alcoholics are good at gaslighting.


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## CrowFlies (Jun 14, 2022)

the 'us' has been under a gaslight influence for some recent years.
its been difficult to see so many humans under the influence of such a mind altering mechanism of "influence"
if you can call it that.
id call it brain washing via social tech.  tells lies and 'they will believe it'.
if it comes from your computer...why it must be...factual?...true?....valid by algorithms....

i doubt it could work if not for the likes of FB and other 'social' media avenues.
humans here are lonely and convinced the innnernets, with impunity, are their constant friends.


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## JaniceM (Jun 15, 2022)

Jan14 said:


> Gaslighters lie and deny what you know to be true, even if there is physical evidence.  If it’s a loved one ie. a spouse, this behavior is repeated over and over.  Plus they treat you as though your are crazy and the problem is you.  After enough of this abuse you can start to doubt your own reality. It’s a cruel form of mental s use.  Addicts and alcoholics are good at gaslighting.


I'm replying to your post because of specific things you said.

Re: the second sentence-  a dumb remark can be a dumb remark, but when a person has an 'agenda' it's "repeated over and over."  
A few nights ago, I kinda gasped when rereading something I'd written awhile back about a long-ago incident.
At the time, I was around 38-39 yrs old, living in an area where crime was very rare and serious crime essentially did not occur.  One afternoon, I happened to look out the window, and saw numerous individuals walking across my front lawn with something that appeared to be metal detectors.  They moved on to my parents' yard (they lived next door), and on to other neighbors' yard.  
As I knew my parents had been out grocery shopping that day, when they got home I went over to their house and told them about this incident.  My excuse-the-word mother, with her sly smirk on her face, went "Oh.. are you having _one of your delusions?"  _

I didn't reply, but immediately got a knot of panic in my stomach-  and it remained there til the next day when there was an article about the incident in the next day's newspaper:  there'd been a murder not far from the area, and the authorities were searching properties all around the area to see if the murder weapon had been tossed someplace.  

Point:  an incident 'didn't happen,' until there was proof that it did.  


Not long after this incident, I met an individual who was involved in a cult.  He wrote a long list of what he referred to as "mind-games."  The one that's most relevant to this topic:  "The way you experienced something is not the way it really happened."  
(Margaret Singer describes this in more detail in her "Cults in Our Midst" book).
And it can get really messy.  


Now where it really gets hairy:
It's not limited to any one locale, but this is the only one in which I've heard it put into words-  many times, from both criminals who want to get away with something, and average people as to why they don't report crimes even when they're the victims:  "You've gotta be able to prove it!"  
Can somebody tell me how a person can "prove" a crime occurred?  Not many criminals will go "Oh yes, Officer, that's exactly what I did- please take me to jail!"  Most will insist nothing happened, and/or the victim is making it up, lying, or crazy, or that the victim was actually the perpetrator.  You wouldn't believe how often crimes go unreported because victims are afraid it'll be twisted around so they'll be blamed.


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## Jules (Jun 15, 2022)

As seniors I think we have to be extra prepared to respond right away when a family member starts to ‘correct’ what we said.  They expect that we’ll be senile soon and are looking for signs.


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## JaniceM (Jun 15, 2022)

Jules said:


> As seniors I think we have to be extra prepared to respond right away when a family member starts to ‘correct’ what we said.  They expect that we’ll be senile soon and are looking for signs.


That's good advice!!!


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## Nathan (Jun 15, 2022)

CrowFlies said:


> the 'us' has been under a gaslight influence for some recent years.
> its been difficult to see so many humans under the influence of such a mind altering mechanism of "influence"
> if you can call it that.
> id call it brain washing via social tech.  tells lies and 'they will believe it'.
> ...


Quite true, both foreign and domestic gaslighters have been manipulating the masses, made possible by social media.


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## Bella (Jun 15, 2022)

Jules said:


> As seniors I think we have to be extra prepared to *respond right away when a family member starts to ‘correct’ what we said*.  They expect that we’ll be senile soon and are looking for signs.





JaniceM said:


> That's good advice!!!


It is good advice, and it doesn't apply to just seniors. As adults, we shouldn't allow others to get away with it, period. If you don't stand up for yourself, it gives these people license to do it over and over again.

Bella


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## Murrmurr (Jun 15, 2022)

Nathan said:


> Quite true, both foreign and domestic gaslighters have been manipulating the masses, made possible by social media.


Governments, kings, czars and emperors have been gaslighting people for eons.


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 15, 2022)




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## WheatenLover (Jun 15, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


>


Now you sound like my husband.


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## dseag2 (Jun 15, 2022)

My partner works for a non-profit organization that exists to benefit survivors of domestic abuse.  They have 2 shelters for women and one for men.  He has gone through complete training on this topic, and "gaslighting" is one of the primary behaviors of domestic abusers.  They make their abused partners/spouses believe they are worthless and cannot leave.  This is one of the most extreme examples of gaslighting.

The second behavior is alienating them from their families/friends so they can no longer share their issues, which is in itself a form of gaslighting... the families/friends.


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## Remy (Jun 15, 2022)

I only heard this term a few short years ago. My mother was a borderline personality disorder and they are great at this. Then they deny their abuse. As a small child my mother literally raged at me that my intention was to kill her. She screamed over and over "she won't rest until I'm six feet under." I asked a therapist what I did, she said I didn't do anything. But this crap sure rewires the brain.

I can think of other people who used this on me.


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## Remy (Jun 15, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> They make their abused partners/spouses believe they are worthless and cannot leave.  This is one of the most extreme examples of gaslighting.
> 
> The second behavior is alienating them from their families/friends so they can no longer share their issues, which is in itself a form of gaslighting... the families/friends.


Borderline tactic against children also. One thing you read about borderlines is that they are "afraid of abandonment" but what they don't elaborate on is how the destroy their children because they never want them to grow up to be independent functioning adults. College? Oh no, no, no, no, no, that was never mentioned to me. I had to pull myself up in my late 20's and start myself. All while I self deprecated how I'd fail everything. Which I didn't. 

My mother isolated my stepfather from his large family and circle of friends. It took some years but she was beyond successful and what she did was diabolical. I really only realized that damage in the last few years. No family is perfect but my stepfather's family were nice people and they were kind and accepting of myself and my brother. My mother wouldn't have it.


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## dseag2 (Jun 15, 2022)

I'm sure this will be controversial, but I have watched lots of segments on Betty Broderick and I believe she was "gaslighted" by her husband to the point where she couldn't take it anymore and killed him and his new wife.  Was she a bit crazy?  Absolutely.  But I think her husband's gaslighting brought this out in her.


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## dseag2 (Jun 15, 2022)

Remy said:


> Borderline tactic against children also. One thing you read about borderlines is that they are "afraid of abandonment" but what they don't elaborate on is how the destroy their children because they never want them to grow up to be independent functioning adults. College? Oh no, no, no, no, no, that was never mentioned to me. I had to pull myself up in my late 20's and start myself. All while I self deprecated how I'd fail everything. Which I didn't.
> 
> My mother isolated my stepfather from his large family and circle of friends. It took some years but she was beyond successful and what she did was diabolical. I really only realized that damage in the last few years. No family is perfect but my stepfather's family were nice people and they were kind and accepting of myself and my brother. My mother wouldn't have it.


Wow, I'm so sorry to hear about your difficulties with your mother.  I honestly can't even imagine.  I had issues with my mother, but nothing like what you're describing.  She only gaslighted me later in life by telling me she never made me and my friends play on the front porch because she didn't want to get her house dirty or that she never sent me to a psychiatrist because I was gay.  This is so minor compared to what you've gone through, but I understand how it stays with you.  

I hope you find this forum cathartic.  I know I do.  There are people reading your posts that truly care about you.


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## JaniceM (Jun 19, 2022)

I'm not sure if this would be in this category or not:  when somebody frequently says things to you that they know isn't true, in front of another person, to try to make you look bad?


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## Shalimar (Jun 19, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I'm not sure if this would be in this category or not:  when somebody frequently says things to you that they know isn't true, in front of another person, to try to make you look bad?


In my opinion, yes, it is.


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