# Don't Mess with Alabama



## Packerjohn (Dec 3, 2022)

I have been in Texas and I have seen those signs:  "DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS."  Well, today I have come across this little story about a little ole' lady who did not pay her trash bill in Alabama.  Can you image that?  Maybe she had no money.  Well, poor excuse and the police in Alabama are going to accept it.  Yap!  They have arrested her.  I hope they are not going to put her on a chain gang and make her work on the roads during the heat of summer.  Bet her heart wouldn't take it.

Anyway, if your from Alabama or thinking of retiring there, take my advice and pay your bills or else!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63829128


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## Pinky (Dec 3, 2022)

If I could, I would pay her trash bill for her.


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## Nathan (Dec 3, 2022)

Thanks for the warning!


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## Alligatorob (Dec 3, 2022)

Wow, I didn't think you could arrest someone in the US for not paying a bill.

Valley, Alabama must be exceedingly crime free for the police to have nothing better to do.


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## hollydolly (Dec 3, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I have been in Texas and I have seen those signs:  "DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS."  Well, today I have come across this little story about a little ole' lady who did not pay her trash bill in Alabama.  Can you image that?  Maybe she had no money.  Well, poor excuse and the police in Alabama are going to accept it.  Yap!  They have arrested her.  I hope they are not going to put her on a chain gang and make her work on the roads during the heat of summer.  Bet her heart wouldn't take it.
> 
> Anyway, if your from Alabama or thinking of retiring there, take my advice and pay your bills or else!
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63829128


The Irony of the BBC reporting it, who have people arrested...and Jailed .... for not paying a TV licence in the UK ...


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## ohioboy (Dec 3, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Wow, I didn't think you could arrest someone in the US for not paying a bill.


Due Process was satisfied when she was issued a Citation. She seems to have not paid it either purposely or negligently and it appears a warrant was issued for her arrest. It was not technically because of an unpaid bill.


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## Disgustedman (Dec 6, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> Due Process was satisfied when she was issued a Citation. She seems to have not paid it either purposely or negligently and it appears a warrant was issued for her arrest. It was not technically because of an unpaid bill.


Yes, she was playing the odds they wouldn't harm a "little old lady"

You can also be arrested for not showing up for jury duty (saw three warrants get issued) and if you don't respond to a "Debtors examination" (simple questions regarding what you own, in bankruptcy court) or even refusing to sign a traffic's ticket


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## ohioboy (Dec 6, 2022)

Disgustedman said:


> Yes, she was playing the odds they wouldn't harm a "little old lady"
> 
> You can also be arrested for not showing up for jury duty (saw three warrants get issued) and if you don't respond to a "Debtors examination" (simple questions regarding what you own, in bankruptcy court) or even refusing to sign a traffic's ticket


Yes, in Ohio, for discussion, if a person does not sign a citation, it can result in an arrestable offense, even if the offense charged was not arrestable initially.


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## 911 (Dec 7, 2022)

This is new to me. Arresting people for not paying a bill. It reminds me of the movie “A Christmas Carol.” The part where he says, “Have they no prisons, or debtor’s workhouses.” Or something to that effect. Depends on what version you watch.


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

911 said:


> This is new to me. Arresting people for not paying a bill. It reminds me of the movie “A Christmas Carol.” The part where he says, “Have they no prisons, or debtor’s workhouses.” Or something to that effect. Depends on what version you watch.


It's sickening to think our country could stoop that low.


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## ohioboy (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> It's sickening to think our country could stoop that low.


See my post 6. Additionally, the police are not to blame. When they are presented with a Warrant to serve, failure to do so would be criminal dereliction of duty, in addition to dept. discipline.


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> See my post 6. Additionally, the police are not to blame. When they are presented with a Warrant to serve, failure to do so would be criminal dereliction of duty, in addition to dept. discipline.


I'm not referring to the police.  I'm referring to 'warrant for her arrest' because she didn't pay a bill.


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## ohioboy (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I'm not referring to the police.  I'm referring to 'warrant for her arrest' because she didn't pay a bill.


I explained that in 6 too. If you receive a summons, you must respond one way or another.


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> I explained that in 6 too. If you receive a summons, you must respond one way or another.


What if she appeared as she was summoned to do, and said she could not pay it?

(I'm not saying this is what happened in that particular case, just asking in general).


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## ohioboy (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> What if she appeared as she was summoned to do, and said she could not pay it?
> 
> (I'm not saying this is what happened in that particular case, just asking in general).


That is quite different, as she would not have been arrested. If she can not pay, that is I am sure, negotiable with the govt.


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> That is quite different, as she would not have been arrested. If she can not pay, that is I am sure, negotiable with the govt.


The reason I asked-  a few years ago I knew a local fellow who had to spend multiple weekends in jail because he couldn't pay a parking ticket.


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## ohioboy (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> The reason I asked-  a few years ago I knew a local fellow who had to spend multiple weekends in jail because he couldn't pay a parking ticket.


Do not know the specifics there, but generally, a person can not be jailed if unable to pay a fine. If Bearden was satisfied to the Court, no jail. He may have been held in direct or indirect contempt of court for some reason ??

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearden_v._Georgia#:~:text=Georgia


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## horseless carriage (Dec 7, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> The Irony of the BBC reporting it, who have people arrested...and Jailed .... for not paying a TV licence in the UK ...


You can't actually be jailed for not paying the TV licence. It's when a court imposes a fine for non payment and you fail to pay said fine that you can be sent to jail. The charge being: "Contempt of Court." It has happened, there have been a number of reviews to decriminalise non payment of the TV licence.


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> Do not know the specifics there, but generally, a person can not be jailed if unable to pay a fine. If Bearden was satisfied to the Court, no jail. He may have been held in direct or indirect contempt of court for some reason ??
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearden_v._Georgia#:~:text=Georgia


Well, like it ^ states, judges often do not make any distinction between "cannot" and "will not."


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## ohioboy (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Well, like it ^ states, judges often do not make any distinction between "cannot" and "will not."


True!


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## ohioboy (Dec 7, 2022)

Oh, to add, the woman owed a trash _Bill_, not a Fine, so Bearden would not apply anyway.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 7, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I have been in Texas and I have seen those signs:  "DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS."  Well, today I have come across this little story about a little ole' lady who did not pay her trash bill in Alabama.  Can you image that?  Maybe she had no money.  Well, poor excuse and the police in Alabama are going to accept it.  Yap!  They have arrested her.  I hope they are not going to put her on a chain gang and make her work on the roads during the heat of summer.  Bet her heart wouldn't take it.
> 
> Anyway, if your from Alabama or thinking of retiring there, take my advice and pay your bills or else!
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63829128



Read the whole article.  She wasn't arrested for not paying her bill.  She was arrested for not appearing in court in answer to a summons.  This would be true in any state in the Union.  She was booked and released immediately. 

I'm sorry this happened, she's 82 and all, but even if you're old you're supposed to obey the law.

Update, I read the whole thread and see that ohioboy has addressed this cogently as per usual.


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> Oh, to add, the woman owed a trash _Bill_, not a Fine, so Bearden would not apply anyway.


Why should there be a difference?


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## Buckeye (Dec 7, 2022)

At what age are you allowed to just quit paying your bills, because, well, you know, old? 

Asking for a friend.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Why should there be a difference?


Get fined by your local municipality, refuse to pay, and you will find out soon enough.  Not paying a fine is like not showing up for a jail sentence.  It's lawbreaking.


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## Packerjohn (Dec 7, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Read the whole article.  She wasn't arrested for not paying her bill.  She was arrested for not appearing in court in answer to a summons.  This would be true in any state in the Union.  She was booked and released immediately.
> 
> I'm sorry this happened, she's 82 and all, but even if you're old you're supposed to obey the law.
> 
> Update, I read the whole thread and see that ohioboy has addressed this cogently as per usual.


Thanks for the update.  Sometimes, when you get older, you sort of become a bit of a recluse away from society.  Unfortunately, the court system doesn't allow any sort of "reclusing" if there is such a word which I think there isn't.  LOL

There is an old joke that says something like this:
"If you think nobody cares, just try not to make payments for 3 months in a row"


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 7, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> At what age are you allowed to just quit paying your bills, because, well, you know, old?
> 
> Asking for a friend.



The answer is 70 years and two weeks, which happens to be my exact age.


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Get fined by your local municipality, refuse to pay, and you will find out soon enough.  Not paying a fine is like not showing up for a jail sentence.  It's lawbreaking.


Refuse and will not should not be in the same category as cannot.  
Individuals should not "go to jail" simply because they have no money.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 7, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> Thanks for the update.  Sometimes, when you get older, you sort of become a bit of a recluse away from society.  Unfortunately, the court system doesn't allow any sort of "reclusing" if there is such a word which I think there isn't.  LOL


 True enough.  The old and infirm need people to watch out for them, but such people aren't always available.


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> Thanks for the update.  Sometimes, when you get older, you sort of become a bit of a recluse away from society.  Unfortunately, the court system doesn't allow any sort of *"reclusing"* if there is such a word which I think there isn't.  LOL
> 
> There is an old joke that says something like this:
> "If you think nobody cares, just try not to make payments for 3 months in a row"


Actually, that is a word.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Refuse and will not should not be in the same category as cannot.
> Individuals should not "go to jail" simply because they have no money.



You understand that the woman a) did not answer a summons and b) did not go to jail, but rather was arrested and then released, right?  And that the BBC has an agenda here, which is to make Alabama look like some godforsaken Orange Man loving hellhole. 

Which it may be, I've only been there once, and then just for a day. 

I have a relative living in Britain under difficult circumstances, single mother of three children.  Her "council" (whatever that is) hassles her constantly about various fees and fines, threatening all sorts of legal action.  It's the Anglo-American justice system at work.   I can't imagine French or German authorities being any more lenient.


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## hollydolly (Dec 7, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> You can't actually be jailed for not paying the TV licence. It's when a court imposes a fine for non payment and you fail to pay said fine that you can be sent to jail. The charge being: "Contempt of Court." It has happened, there have been a number of reviews to decriminalise non payment of the TV licence.


HC... my friend...I personally know 2 people who were jailed for non payment of the TV licence, one of them was a mother of 6 children .. who was arrested at 6am while still in her nightie. She was taken straight to Holloway prison, and 48 hours later when someone paid the fine.. she was released at 6am..out on the streets in the same nightie to wait for someone to pick her up

Semantics as to whether you can go to jail for not buying the licence or not paying the fine.. both are a criminal offence...

I should know having worked for the BBC for 30 years, and my husband still works there after 40 years..


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> HC... my friend...I personally know 2 people who were jailed for non payment of the TV licence, one of them was a mother of 6 children .. who was arrested at 6am while still in her nightie. She was taken straight to Holloway prison, and 48 hours later when someone paid the fine.. she was released at 6am..out on the streets in the same nightie to wait for someone to pick her up
> 
> Semantics as to whether you can go to jail for not buying the licence or not paying the fine.. both are a criminal offence...
> 
> I should know having worked for the BBC for 30 years, and my husband still works there after 40 years..


What is a TV licence????


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## ohioboy (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Why should there be a difference?


Because a Bill is not Punitive in nature like a Fine is.


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> You understand that the woman a) did not answer a summons and b) did not go to jail, but rather was arrested and then released, right?  And that the BBC has an agenda here, which is to make Alabama look like some godforsaken Orange Man loving hellhole.
> 
> Which it may be, I've only been there once, and then just for a day.
> 
> I have a relative living in Britain under difficult circumstances, single mother of three children.  Her "council" (whatever that is) hassles her constantly about various fees and fines, threatening all sorts of legal action.  It's the Anglo-American justice system at work.   I can't imagine French or German authorities being any more lenient.


Released on bond.  The article doesn't say what happened afterward...


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> Because a Bill is not Punative in nature like a Fine is.


It should not matter.  
Even if it does, it shouldn't.


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## hollydolly (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> What is a TV licence????


the BBC..don't allow anyone to watch tv without having annual licence..  ...the daft thing about it is we don't need a licence to watch all the other channels which show adverts.. the BBC don't.. but to enable us to watch the Commercial channels.. we have to pay the TV licence because the BBC channels are included... 

It'd be easier than typing it all to give you a link which explains..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence


Actually it's good value for all the BBC programming, which includes radio stations as well... however it's completely outdated, as most of us pay for some kind of Satelite or cable system..  and have done for many years.. but attempting to not pay the licence doesn't really get us anywhere. When we buy a TV, the Store has to by law contact the TV licensing Authority, and if we have no licence registered at the address, they will quickly contact us and remind us we need one..or face a possible 1,000 fine or worse..

If we are found watching TV without a licence ...and yes they have TV detector vans that prowl the streets... then we're given a chance to buy one immediately.. or face a fine and even after paying the fine, the licencestill has to be purchased or face more fines..or ultimately prison


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> What is a TV licence????



You didn't think the BBC was free, did you?  Somebody has to pay for all those detectives!


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> the BBC..don't allow anyone to watch tv without having annual licence..  ...the daft thing about it is we don't need a licence to watch all the other channels which show adverts.. the BBC don't.. but to enable us to watch the Commercial channels.. we have to pay the TV licence because the BBC channels are included...
> 
> It'd be easier than typing it all to give you a link which explains..
> 
> ...


Well that's just plain awful!!


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> You didn't think the BBC was free, did you?  Somebody has to pay for all those detectives!


I wasn't familiar with their t.v. system.


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## hollydolly (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Well that's just plain awful!!


well we're not the only one who has a TV licence system...if you see my link there's many places listed that also have it too... but I _think _we're probably the only ones who make it a criminal offence..


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> well we're not the only one who has a TV licence system...if you see my link there's many places listed that also have it too... but I _think _we're probably the only ones who make it a criminal offence..


But what's the reason for it-  government wanting to make money, or to control what people do/see??

Gotta admit, I've never heard that before.


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## hollydolly (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> But what's the reason for it-  government wanting to make money, or to control what people do/see??
> 
> Gotta admit, I've never heard that before.


no..it's so they don't have to pay for the service by showing Commercials... so we get  4 BBC channels on Terrestrial TV.. and many more Radio channels which are advert free..  All the rest of our Terrestrial Channels are funded by adverts ... as of course are all the satellite channels.. of which I have 999


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 7, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I wasn't familiar with their t.v. system.


Er, that was an attempt at humor.  Sorry if that didn't come across, I don't know anything about the BBC either.


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## JaniceM (Dec 7, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Er, that was an attempt at humor.  Sorry if that didn't come across, I don't know anything about the BBC either.


ok.


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## jimintoronto (Dec 8, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> What is a TV licence????


In the United Kingdom, you are required to pay a license fee in order to receive through the air  TV signals using a roof top antenna. Most of the over the air TV signals there are commercial free. The fee system is widely ignored and of course at some time the scoff laws will end up getting a fine notice that has to be paid at a court office. It is a continual argument in UK media.  JimB.


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## horseless carriage (Dec 8, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> HC... my friend...I personally know 2 people who were jailed for non payment of the TV licence, one of them was a mother of 6 children .. who was arrested at 6am while still in her nightie. She was taken straight to Holloway prison, and 48 hours later when someone paid the fine.. she was released at 6am..out on the streets in the same nightie to wait for someone to pick her up
> 
> Semantics as to whether you can go to jail for not buying the licence or not paying the fine.. both are a criminal offence...
> 
> I should know having worked for the BBC for 30 years, and my husband still works there after 40 years..


You did me a favour Holly, the reason that I argued about contempt and imprisonment was because I didn't get my information from Google. A dear friend whom I was at school with, a lady, with whom I enjoyed a strong friendship without a romantic involvement, graduated in law. She had also met and married a fellow law student, or maybe he had graduated by the time of the wedding. She it was who had explained about non payment of the TV licence.

The favour being that I enjoyed about two hours of catch up on the phone to her, hopefully, we might meet up in the new year. 

Right or wrong, about the Beeb's dictatorial attitude, I'm no lover of The Corporation. You may have read in other threads that my wife and I, are both out dancing, or teaching dance or even choreographing a dance for a competition, we were so dance orientated that there was little time for anything else, other than work.

To that end we didn't bother with having a TV for the first thirty years of our marriage. It was only when mother-in-law came to stay. She was addicted to daytime soaps, so we got a TV for her. But I tell you, the correspondence about our lack of a TV licence. I wish I had kept it. I do wonder who, at the BBC, wondered if we were real, when I replied about their threat of prosecution, that Tyborn gallows were dismantled centuries ago.


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## Paladin1950 (Dec 8, 2022)

Trash bill? Everywhere I lived in New York State, we never had trash bills. The town, city, or village, pays for it.  In New Jersey, we didn't have one. In Florida we didn't have one either. But now that I think of it, when my family lived in Lake Park, there was no garbage collection service. We had to take ours to the local garbage dump.


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## Buckeye (Dec 8, 2022)

Paladin1950 said:


> Trash bill? Everywhere I lived in New York State, we never had trash bills. The town, city, or village, pays for it.  In New Jersey, we didn't have one. In Florida we didn't have one either. But now that I think of it, when my family lived in Lake Park, there was no garbage collection service. We had to take ours to the local garbage dump.


This is my second tour of duty in Florida, and the fees for trash pick up are on the same bill as water and sewer.  Twice a week pick up for trash, once a week for recycle.

YMMV


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## Brookswood (Jan 4, 2023)

I only mess with Texas.   Mostly Texas women.


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## Jamala (Jan 7, 2023)

The BBC does not/ did not grab people out of their homes for non payment of licences. Where on earth did that notion come from??

The BBC employs a company which looks into the issue of licences. If it comes to light that fees are not paid, they then issue a warning and the matter then has to be taken before the Court system. Anyone who is “grabbed” from their home would certainly be involved in other* illegal* activities.

Interesting to note, there are millions of people who no longer pay for a TV licence and since the BBC cannot compete with other streaming services, they are at this point going to announce the UK government’s intention to abolish the BBC licence fee altogether!

About time in my opinion!


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## Magna-Carta (Sunday at 8:16 AM)

hollydolly said:


> HC... my friend...I personally know 2 people who were jailed for non payment of the TV licence, one of them was a mother of 6 children .. who was arrested at 6am while still in her nightie. She was taken straight to Holloway prison, and 48 hours later when someone paid the fine.. she was released at 6am..out on the streets in the same nightie to wait for someone to pick her up
> 
> Semantics as to whether you can go to jail for not buying the licence or not paying the fine.. both are a criminal offence...
> 
> I should know having worked for the BBC for 30 years, and my husband still works there after 40 years..


I wonder where that leaves me.  I have never paid a TV Licence. Have never been fined for not buying one, & never been to prison.  I have registered with TV Licencing however, saying that I don't need one.  As far as I'm aware, Ive never been visited by TV Licencing.  If they have visited, I can only presume I was out away from home at the time.


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## hollydolly (Sunday at 8:46 AM)

Magna-Carta said:


> I wonder where that leaves me.  I have never paid a TV Licence. Have never been fined for not buying one, & never been to prison.  I have registered with TV Licencing however, saying that I don't need one.  As far as I'm aware, Ive never been visited by TV Licencing.  If they have visited, I can only presume I was out away from home at the time.


that's all you have to do if you've never bought a TV..is to register to say you don't have one. Plenty people do.. and if they have no record of you having one, they'll generally leave you alone.


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