# 2nd Healthcare worker tests positive for Ebola



## Misty (Oct 15, 2014)

DALLAS (AP) — A second health care worker at a Dallas hospital who provided care for the first Ebola patient diagnosed in the U.S. has tested positive for the disease, the Texas Department of State Health Services said Wednesday.

The worker at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital was monitoring herself for symptoms of Ebola, Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins said. The unidentified woman reported a fever Tuesday. She was in isolation within 90 minutes, Jenkins said.
Health officials said the worker was among those who took care of Thomas Eric Duncan, who was diagnosed with Ebola after coming to the U.S. from Liberia. Duncan died Oct. 8.

The department said a preliminary Ebola test was conducted late Tuesday at a state public health laboratory in Austin, Texas, and came back positive during the night. Confirmatory testing was being conducted at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta.

Officials said the health care worker was interviewed to quickly identify any contacts or potential exposures. It said others who had interactions with the worker or possible exposure to the virus will be monitored.
It's not clear how the second health care worker contracted the virus, and authorities declined to say what position she holds at the hospital or the type of care she provided.

http://www.breitbart.com/system/wire/ap_ab3cd5a9b32c450aa5a13e1a4a14c60e


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## JustBonee (Oct 15, 2014)

Who needs to worry about ISIS, when we have this going on? ..  

The 'experts'  need to get their act together on Ebola procedure.


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## Misty (Oct 15, 2014)

Bonnie said:


> Who needs to worry about ISIS, when we have this going on? ..
> 
> The 'experts'  need to get their act together on Ebola procedure.



So true, Bonnie. Today the National Nurses United union spokeswoman, made the statement that when treating Duncan that the nurses were forced to use medical tape to secure openings in their flimsy garments, worried that their necks and heads were exposed as they cared for a patient with explosive diarrhea and projectile vomiting.

The nurses alleged that:
— Duncan was kept in a non-isolated area of the emergency department for several hours, potentially exposing up to seven other patients to Ebola;
— Patients who may have been exposed to Duncan were kept in isolation only for a day before being moved to areas where there were other patients;
— Nurses treating Duncan were also caring for other patients in the hospital;
— Preparation for Ebola at the hospital amounted to little more than an optional seminar for staff;
— In the face of constantly shifting guidelines, nurses were allowed to follow whichever ones they chose.
“There was no advance preparedness on what to do with the patient, there was no protocol, there was no system,” Burger said.
Even today, some hospital staff at the Dallas hospital do not have proper equipment to handle the outbreak.

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/10/15/nurses-union-ebola-patient-left-in-open-area-of-er-for-hours/


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## JustBonee (Oct 15, 2014)

I really feel bad for the medical people put in the position of having to deal with this.   It all seems like guesswork in learning what is going on, and what to do next.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 15, 2014)

I had a feeling the caregivers didn't have proper protection.. Ie hazmat suits... I'm sure they just had gowns, gloves.. perhaps leggings and booties.. and face shields.  Not at all sufficient.  I was glad to hear that the CDC is now going to send an experienced isolation team to any hospital caring for an ebola patient.  That should have happened in the first place.


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## Misty (Oct 15, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I had a feeling the caregivers didn't have proper protection.. Ie hazmat suits... I'm sure they just had gowns, gloves.. perhaps leggings and booties.. and face shields.  Not at all sufficient.  I was glad to hear that the CDC is now going to send an experienced isolation team to any hospital caring for an ebola patient.  That should have happened in the first place.



I was surprised to read on CNN, Quicksilver, that there are only 4 hospitals in the country that have biochemical units and have been training for years to treat highly infectious diseases like Ebola. Emory University in Atlanta and Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha are two of the hospitals.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 15, 2014)

Misty said:


> I was surprised to read on CNN, Quicksilver, that there are only 4 hospitals in the country that have biochemical units and have been training for years to treat highly infectious diseases like Ebola. Emory University in Atlanta and Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha are two of the hospitals.



I'm not really surprised...  After all... we never expected just a highly transmitable contagion to come here..  We have erradicated so many of the bad things.. small pox, plague, and even controlled measles and chicken pox.   Who would have thought this?   BUT.. that's no excuse.. even if a community hospital cannot handle the isolation and treatment, there should have been a better plan in place..  NOW there is.. with this team being dispatched with trained people and equipment.  It's quite obvious now that standard protection gear used by hospitals is NOT enough..as evidenced by the two new cases.


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## JustBonee (Oct 15, 2014)

I don't understand the reasoning for continuing to  let planes fly from those infected areas to the states.


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## WhatInThe (Oct 15, 2014)

Misty said:


> So true, Bonnie. Today the National Nurses United union spokeswoman, made the statement that when treating Duncan that the nurses were forced to use medical tape to secure openings in their flimsy garments, worried that their necks and heads were exposed as they cared for a patient with explosive diarrhea and projectile vomiting.
> 
> The nurses alleged that:
> — Duncan was kept in a non-isolated area of the emergency department for several hours, potentially exposing up to seven other patients to Ebola;
> ...



This comes from several things including drills that never amounted anything. Unused/forgotten training. Ignorance and believe it or not some of these health care workers who might be young didn't see enough movies and tv like Outbreak or see the news footage of gas attacks in places like Iraq. I still think a lot of health care workers are their to mail it and collect a paycheck. If I was a health care worker and I knew there was Ebola patient I would've researched more than a doctor in med school. Too many think 'not me' even when it's staring them in the face.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 15, 2014)

I've been a nurse for 40 years.  We are trained in universal precautions and the different types of isolation... We train on how to put on gowns, masks, gloves.. etc and to most it's 2nd nature.. BUT not once...was I ever trained in the doning and doffing a Hazmat suit.. I don't know who has?  Perhaps ER nurses, but maybe not.. I know for sure ICU nurses are not.  They may watch a 5 minute online powerpoint... but that is no where near enough.  And what good is that if there isn't any equipment anyway?


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## AprilT (Oct 15, 2014)

What they really have to up the ante on is getting together a large batch of a vaccine, because I'm afraid this virus isn't likely going to be contained as easily as they thought.  It had been stated earlier that these teams over here didn't have the proper training in how to suit up and then decontaminate themselves after contact, The heads are only now truly copping to their part of not being more proactive in getting people out to the Dallas facilities to insure proper procedures were being followed.  Seems those at the helm were living in a bubble like so many when it comes to thinking not in our backyard.  

this one has hospital workers speaking out on the case:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html

http://www.mrt.com/top_stories/article_8ee2aeba-543b-11e4-b939-3f0dcc33c12d.html

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/15/4235096/oct-15-the-latest-news-on-ebola.html


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## Ameriscot (Oct 15, 2014)

This is beginning to sound like one of those horror movies where the whole world gets sick!  Nothing in the UK, yet.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 15, 2014)

Ameriscot said:


> This is beginning to sound like one of those horror movies where the whole world gets sick! Nothing in the UK, yet.



OR the Steven King novel... "The Stand"


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## Vivjen (Oct 15, 2014)

We have had one; flown back; but he has recovered, and no cases from it.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 15, 2014)

I understand France has one now.


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## Twixie (Oct 15, 2014)

Ameriscot said:


> This is beginning to sound like one of those horror movies where the whole world gets sick!  Nothing in the UK, yet.



No...not yet! Apparently there are guys standing in airports...politely asking anyone who has arrived from the stricken regions if they would mind having their temperature taken..

Usual UK mess up!


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## Vivjen (Oct 15, 2014)

Not as bad as US; our one case has recovered: nobody else infected.


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## JustBonee (Oct 15, 2014)

Now this ..  the whole thing would be comical if it wasn't so serious:

_
The CDC and Frontier Airlines said Wednesday that the second health care worker had travelled from Cleveland to Dallas-Fort Worth on Monday aboard flight 1143. Health officials are alerting the 132 passengers who were on the same flight._
_Infected Ebola patients are not considered contagious until they have symptoms. The airplane's crew said the nurse had no symptoms of Ebola during the flight. But the CDC is asking the passengers to call the health agency so they can be monitored._


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ebola-outbreak-dallas-nurse-took-frontier-airlines-flight-before-becoming-ill-1.2798937


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## Twixie (Oct 15, 2014)

You do realise that the UK is expecting 12,000 students from the stricken areas to take up University studies here soon?


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## Misty (Oct 15, 2014)

Twixie said:


> You do realise that the UK is expecting 12,000 students from the stricken areas to take up University studies here soon?


A Texas College, Navarro College, is denying admission to applicants from countries with confirmed Ebola cases, Trixie. That would be risky I would think with all those students from those areas going to your university.


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## Kitties (Oct 15, 2014)

This woman should have never been allowed to fly. This, to me, shows how they are dropping the ball all over the place.

Universal precautions obviously doesn't work with this devastating disease. I work in long term care but I've taken care of patients who were HIV positive and full blown AIDS and I haven't worried. Just been cautious. I'd be terrified of this.


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## Misty (Oct 15, 2014)

Bonnie said:


> I don't understand the reasoning for continuing to  let planes fly from those infected areas to the states.


I'm with you, Bonnie, I don't understand why planes are being allowed to fly here from those infected areas either.  Thanks for the map.  It's being predicted by WHO, that 10,000 cases a week are expected in those area's by The end of this year.


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## Vivjen (Oct 15, 2014)

If you stop people flying; how are the aid agencies going to get in and out?
MSF are the only people who have bothered to help so far; at last UK, US France and Cuba are beginning to do something...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 15, 2014)

Whats to stop someone from flying into another country.. and THEN to the US?  And they can always lie about having been in West Africa.


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## Vivjen (Oct 15, 2014)

Surely it is better to test everybody as they leave; which is happening, and then keep an eye on them when they arrive; 21 days max; if you have a temp; then quarantine and isolation.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 15, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> Surely it is better to test everybody as they leave; which is happening, and then keep an eye on them when they arrive; 21 days max; if you have a temp; then quarantine and isolation.



Or quarantine people wanting to leave West Africa for 21 days before letting them get on a plane.


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## Misty (Oct 15, 2014)

Kitties said:


> This woman should have never been allowed to fly. This, to me, shows how they are dropping the ball all over the place.
> 
> Universal precautions obviously doesn't work with this devastating disease. I work in long term care but I've taken care of patients who were HIV positive and full blown AIDS and I haven't worried. Just been cautious. I'd be terrified of this.



No she shouldn't have been allowed to fly, Kitties, and she and others that were going through self monitoring were allowed to travel but not on a commercial plane or any other commercial travel. She also had a low level fever when she flew, so looks like they will have to lower their 100.4 temperature level that is being watched for in passengers. Not all those infected had fever, 87.1% of those infected exhibited fever — but 12.9% did not.


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## oakapple (Oct 15, 2014)

I agree with stopping people flying to UK and Europe and also the US [and anywhere else!] from the ebola stricken regions.Any aid workers could be flown in military planes with the proper precautions.We must stop travel between countries until this is contained or over. Otherwise it could well be like 'The Stand' as a poster mentioned.No students should come here at the moment to our universities. Madness.


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## Misty (Oct 15, 2014)

Bonnie said:


> I really feel bad for the medical people put in the position of having to deal with this.   It all seems like guesswork in learning what is going on, and what to do next.



It does seem like guesswork, Bonnie. President Obama was told by the CDC that you can't catch Ebola on a bus, and President Obama forwarded the message to us. On Tuesday, a spokesperson for the CDC told CNSNews.com that it’s “not impossible” to contract Ebola from an infected person on a bus, particularly if the healthy person touches a contaminated object.


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## Warrigal (Oct 15, 2014)

We've had two people checked out in Australia. So far both have been negative for ebola.

One was a nurse who was a Red Cross volunteer in Sierra Leone.

She knew what to do when she returned to Australia.
Although she had no symptoms she went into voluntary quarantine at home and took her temperature twice daily.
When she developed a 'low grade fever" she contacted a hospital and was admitted into an isolation room.
She has tested negative to ebola twice now and has been allowed to go home but will continue her quarantine until the appropriate number of days is up.

I commend her for her service in Africa and for her responsible following of the protocols to avoid possibly spreading the disease. It would seem that health workers in countries where ebola is not endemic will need better education in the protocols as well as training in the use of protective clothing.

That second nurse from Texas should never have travelled as she did, knowing that a co-worker had already been infected.
It will involve a lot of inconvenience and some personal sacrifice if this contagion is to be contained.


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## Butterfly (Oct 15, 2014)

I could not agree more with the people who have said we need to STOP travel into the US from infected regions.  AND, if a traveler came from an infected country THROUGH another country, it seems to me customs and immigration could tell from their passports where they had been and deny them entry.

CRAZY to just let people keep coming in from infected countries, and even CRAZIER to let 12,000 students from infected countries into the UK!


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## Bee (Oct 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> You do realise that the UK is expecting 12,000 students from the stricken areas to take up University studies here soon?



Have you got a link to this please????


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## JustBonee (Oct 16, 2014)

Of course, we knew this had to happen at some point .. $34.95!! .. this guy is laughing all the way to the bank.







http://www.tmz.com/2014/10/15/ebola-c-supplement-ny-businessman-todd-spinelli-wafer/


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## Debby (Oct 16, 2014)

Bonnie said:


> Now this ..  the whole thing would be comical if it wasn't so serious:
> 
> _
> The CDC and Frontier Airlines said Wednesday that the second health care worker had travelled from Cleveland to Dallas-Fort Worth on Monday aboard flight 1143. Health officials are alerting the 132 passengers who were on the same flight._
> ...






I read your link and the one thing missing that was in this one:   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...la_n_5993486.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada    is that the CDC itself gave the second nurse permission to fly to Dallas.

From the link:

"...Vinson told CBS Dallas Fort Worth[FONT=Georgia, Century, Times, serif] that she was feeling ill before boarding her flight. She had a low grade fever, but she said that officials told her it was okay to get on the plane. Vinson told CBS that she called the CDC several times with concerns....."[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Century, Times, serif]So now who wants to talk about the ineptitude of the CDC, ulterior motives....conspiracy theories?????  Why in God's name would the CDC tell a woman who was feeling sick and who had been treating an ebola patient who died.....to get on a plane?


[/FONT]


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## Ameriscot (Oct 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> You do realise that the UK is expecting 12,000 students from the stricken areas to take up University studies here soon?



Hadn't heard about that.  Scary!


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## Ameriscot (Oct 16, 2014)

Debby said:


> I read your link and the one thing missing that was in this one:   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...la_n_5993486.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada    is that the CDC itself gave the second nurse permission to fly to Dallas.
> 
> From the link:
> 
> ...



I used to have a lot of respect for the CDC.  No more.  Idiots.


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## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

Bee said:


> Have you got a link to this please????



Certainly..

I was wrong..it wasn't 12,000 it is 20,000!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nhs-steps-...es-welcome-20000-students-west-africa-1469680


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## Debby (Oct 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Or quarantine people wanting to leave West Africa for 21 days before letting them get on a plane.




The WHO is saying that about 3% of patients can take as long as 42 days to show symptoms.  So between 42 days and the CDC giving a sick nurse who is asking if she should fly, permission....we have the makings of an interesting period in world history.

The article goes on to say that the WHO says:  "....The Ebola virus is believed to be able to survive outside the body for a week or more during which time anyone who comes in contact with contaminated surface can pick up the virus....."  

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ebola-who-cites-cases-longer-incubation-period-42-days-1470326


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## SifuPhil (Oct 16, 2014)

The White House is saying that a travel ban is "not on the table" at this point - as usual they'll wait until it's too late.

Was watching CNN this morning, they had a video clip of the 2nd nurse boarding another plane back to Dallas. She was in a containment suit, all of the accompanying people were in containment suits ... and one dude carrying a clipboard was in a shirt and tie.

Yeah, I have a lot of faith in these people.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

So?  What's your point?


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## Debby (Oct 16, 2014)

Maybe the point is that all the faith people put in the CDC and governments is misguided and wishful thinking.


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## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Yeah, I have a lot of faith in these people.



Looks like we are all being made to sit back and watch the car crash!


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## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

Debby said:


> Maybe the point is that all the faith people put in the CDC and governments is misguided and wishful thinking.



Your solution?  Or are you just.. :beatdeadhorse:


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## SifuPhil (Oct 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> So?  What's your point?



My point is that the American people have a misplaced faith in anything that has capital letters as a name. CDC, WHO, CIA, FBI - you name it, if it's "official" the sheep will sit around until they receive orders from those places, even if it means they have to step over the dying bodies of their neighbors while they wait.

The guy in shirtsleeves, to me, sums up the stupidity of our so-called "guardians", and I extend that thought to most government agencies. 

"Look out for yourself and trust only yourself" is my point.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> Looks like we are all being made to sit back and watch the car crash!



... but there's a runaway freight train approaching us from behind the bleachers ...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> Looks like we are all being made to sit back and watch the car crash!



I agree... I am appalled at the incompetence that the Dallas Hospital demonstrated. The more you hear of their handling of the first patient, the worse it becomes. I blame the CDC for not taking over as soon as Duncan was a confirmed case. They should have flown in THEN to be sure it was handled correctly.. and that the nurses had the proper equipment and knew how to put it on and MORE importantly.. take it off. I believe I said yesterday their exposure came from removing the soiled gear.. and yesterday it was stated that was most likely the case. I can tell you from experience that staff is given very little hands on training in much. Mostly you are told to watch a video and take a 3 question test.


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## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

Our border controls for the detection of possible Ebola carriers is..

''Good day sir/madam...Would you mind if I took your temperature with this laser temperature gun?....You would?..Ok..I am sorry to have bothered you...have a safe journey!''

I don't know whether to laugh or cry!


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## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

I'm conflicted on allowing air travel from West Africa.  One side of me feels it should be restricted.. the other side sees it as pointless in a global community.. People will find their way around regardless.    

My main concern now is how cases are handled here.. AND most importantly of all, developing a vaccine.   I believe we dropped the ball on that for two reasons.. One was funding cuts.. the other was that Ebola was not HERE, nor was there a huge outbreak like there is now.  So that program was probably put on the back burner. You can bet they are move full steam ahead on it now though..


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## Bee (Oct 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> Certainly..
> 
> I was wrong..it wasn't 12,000 it is 20,000!
> 
> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nhs-steps-...es-welcome-20000-students-west-africa-1469680



Thankyou, then there is this news report.........


_*While the three countries which have seen the largest number of Ebola cases – Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone – have hardly any students enrolling at UK universities, Nigeria – which has had confirmed cases – is the fourth largest supplier of international students to UK universities. In 2012-13, the latest year for which figures are available, a total of 9,630 were enrolled.

*_http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...uses-on-alert-as-new-term-begins-9673861.html


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## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I'm conflicted on allowing air travel from West Africa.  One side of me feels it should be restricted.. the other side sees it as pointless in a global community.. People will find their way around regardless.
> 
> My main concern now is how cases are handled here.. AND most importantly of all, developing a vaccine.   I believe we dropped the ball on that for two reasons.. One was funding cuts.. the other was that Ebola was not HERE, nor was there a huge outbreak like there is now.  So that program was probably put on the back burner. You can bet they are move full steam ahead on it now though..



I believe that this outbreak of Ebola will be like AIDS was...It certainly will get to the UK and the USA, and people will die until a cure is found..


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## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

Bee said:


> Thankyou, then there is this news report.........
> 
> 
> _*While the three countries which have seen the largest number of Ebola cases – Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone – have hardly any students enrolling at UK universities, Nigeria – which has had confirmed cases – is the fourth largest supplier of international students to UK universities. In 2012-13, the latest year for which figures are available, a total of 9,630 were enrolled.
> ...



Ah...two conflicting reports!

We shall just have to wait and see...


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## Bee (Oct 16, 2014)

Exactly Twixie.


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## Misty (Oct 16, 2014)

Rep Ed Royce, Chairman of the House Foreign Relations Committee said he was “deeply concerned” U.S. embassies in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone were continuing to process visas for non-U.S. nationals despite the outbreak of the deadly disease.


An estimated 100 people per day are applying for U.S. visas at the three embassies, according to Royce. “Of course,” he added, “once these individuals are issued a visa by the embassy, they are free to travel to the United States.”

Both Republicans and Democrats want travel to stop from those countries and as a poster here mentioned, any Red Cross or others that are helping can be flown on non commercial planes to those countries.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> I believe that this outbreak of Ebola will be like AIDS was...It certainly will get to the UK and the USA, and people will die until a cure is found..



Agreed... but there is a difference between ebola and AIDS.   There is not cure for AIDS.. There is no vaccine for AIDS because the virus mutates. This is why you cannot form antibodies to help you fight the virus.   You can infect someone with HIV before you know you have it as it develops slowly.   Ebola is one of the Hemorrhagic Viruses.. It kills you very fast... but fortunately does not mutate so fast that vaccine cannot be developed.  You are also able to survive the virus by your own body defenses.... ie.. you make antibodies.   The nurse in Dallas was given serum from an Ebola surviver to help her fight it with his antibodies.


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## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

Misty said:


> Rep Ed Royce, Chairman of the House Foreign Relations Committee said he was “deeply concerned” U.S. embassies in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone were continuing to process visas for non-U.S. nationals despite the outbreak of the deadly disease.
> 
> 
> An estimated 100 people per day are applying for U.S. visas at the three embassies, according to Royce. “Of course,” he added, “once these individuals are issued a visa by the embassy, they are free to travel to the United States.”
> ...



I can understand that if they have the money they may want to leave the infected areas..

It's a double edged sword isn't it?

Do we take them here and risk a world wide pandemic?

Or do we confine them to the infected areas..and let them take their chances?


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## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> I can understand that if they have the money they may want to leave the infected areas..
> 
> It's a double edged sword isn't it?
> 
> ...



Good point. Probably not a good analogy, but those who immigrated to the "new world" to escape whatever it was they were escaping... ie.. religious persecution, famine, etc.. brought measles with them and pretty much descimated several Native American tribes.. So it won't be the first time refuges brought disease with them. It would be hoped they would be screened, or that we will learn to handle it better than we have.


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## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Agreed... but there is a difference between ebola and AIDS.   There is not cure for AIDS.. There is no vaccine for AIDS because the virus mutates. This is why you cannot form antibodies to help you fight the virus.   You can infect someone with HIV before you know you have it as it develops slowly.   Ebola is one of the Hemorrhagic Viruses.. It kills you very fast... but fortunately does not mutate so fast that vaccine cannot be developed.  You are also able to survive the virus by your own body defenses.... ie.. you make antibodies.   The nurse in Dallas was given serum from an Ebola surviver to help her fight it with his antibodies.



I thought all viruses had the ability to mutate..

Ebola is an RNA virus, which means every time it copies itself, it makes  one or two mutations. Many of those mutations mean nothing, but some of  them might be able to change the way the virus behaves inside the human  body.


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## Debby (Oct 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I agree... I am appalled at the incompetence that the Dallas Hospital demonstrated. The more you hear of their handling of the first patient, the worse it becomes. I blame the CDC for not taking over as soon as Duncan was a confirmed case. They should have flown in THEN to be sure it was handled correctly.. and that the nurses had the proper equipment and knew how to put it on and MORE importantly.. take it off. I believe I said yesterday their exposure came from removing the soiled gear.. and yesterday it was stated that was most likely the case. I can tell you from experience that staff is given very little hands on training in much. Mostly you are told to watch a video and take a 3 question test.




How do you feel about them telling the second nurse it was fine to get on a plane and travel even though she questioned them several times?


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## Debby (Oct 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> Certainly..
> 
> I was wrong..it wasn't 12,000 it is 20,000!
> 
> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nhs-steps-...es-welcome-20000-students-west-africa-1469680




Your health department better be ordering lots of thermometers and then tents so they can camp out at the airports!


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## Debby (Oct 16, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> The White House is saying that a travel ban is "not on the table" at this point - as usual they'll wait until it's too late.
> 
> Was watching CNN this morning, they had a video clip of the 2nd nurse boarding another plane back to Dallas. She was in a containment suit, all of the accompanying people were in containment suits ... and one dude carrying a clipboard was in a shirt and tie.
> 
> Yeah, I have a lot of faith in these people.




Aw Phil, don't be too hard on the White House because they're in good company.  I haven't heard my government saying anything about restrictions either, nor the UK.  'Dumb' travels in packs.


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## Debby (Oct 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Your solution?  Or are you just..




There is no solution because the governments have been given all the power.  We don't expect good behaviour from them, we accept every excuse and story that comes from them and we fail repeatedly on an individual and national basis to keep track of their lies and stories.  We are all to blame for everything that is going on.  But the beginning of wisdom is a realization that those offices and departments that we trust(ed) to keep us safe are merely  mouthpieces and a means to doing what governments want at yours and my expense.

In this instance, it is quite apparent that trusting the CDC to take care and to educate, etc., is misguided.  Personally, I quit trusting governments when I began to investigate why a Palestinian Israeli walked out on my Prime Ministers speech in the Knesset.  Faith without foundation is foolish.  And by giving that nurse permission to travel, the CDC just nuked the foundations of faith for that office.  Any benefit to the average person is purely accidental.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

So... again, other than pontificating.. and stating the obvious you have nothing constructive to add.   Should all governments or agencies be eliminated?


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## Bee (Oct 16, 2014)

Debby said:


> Your health department better be ordering lots of thermometers and then tents so they can camp out at the airports!




Debby if you read post 49 you will see there is a conflicting report which always happen with various news agencies.


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## Debby (Oct 16, 2014)

Bee said:


> Debby if you read post 49 you will see there is a conflicting report which always happen with various news agencies.




Well wasn't the smaller figure for the 2012-13 year and if so, maybe those 20,000 are arriving here now because their parents are desperately trying to save their youth by sending them away.  What I thought scary was this part of the article:    University cleaning staff have also been told to look out for signs of blood and vomit in students' rooms, which could be a sign of possible Ebola symptoms.


How would you like to be cleaning staff at universities when you hear that kind of thing from your manager?


----------



## Vivjen (Oct 16, 2014)

Over 9000 are coming from Nigeria; which has not had a case of Ebola since beginning of Sept; and has therefore been declared Ebola free.
nigeria had 8 cases in total; and is 1500 miles from the infected countries; and 4 independant countries; none of which has reported any cases of Ebola.

Slightly scaremongering?


----------



## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> Over 9000 are coming from Nigeria; which has not had a case of Ebola since beginning of Sept; and has therefore been declared Ebola free.
> nigeria had 8 cases in total; and is 1500 miles from the infected countries; and 4 independant countries; none of which has reported any cases of Ebola.
> 
> Slightly scaremongering?



I don't think the International Business Times is into scaremongering...where did you get your information from?..Link please...

I'd be much happier if it turned out to be so...

And Nigeria is such a corrupt country that I wouldn't believe a word they said..

They have contained it..vanquished it..How?


----------



## Bee (Oct 16, 2014)

Debby said:


> Your health department better be ordering lots of thermometers and then tents so they can camp out at the airports!





Debby said:


> Well wasn't the smaller figure for the 2012-13 year and if so, maybe those 20,000 are arriving here now because their parents are desperately trying to save their youth by sending them away.  What I thought scary was this part of the article:    University cleaning staff have also been told to look out for signs of blood and vomit in students' rooms, which could be a sign of possible Ebola symptoms.
> 
> 
> How would you like to be cleaning staff at universities when you hear that kind of thing from your manager?



I think Vivjen has summed it up very well.


----------



## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> Over 9000 are coming from Nigeria; which has not had a case of Ebola since beginning of Sept; and has therefore been declared Ebola free.
> nigeria had 8 cases in total; and is 1500 miles from the infected countries; and 4 independant countries; none of which has reported any cases of Ebola.
> 
> Slightly scaremongering?



It has not been declared Ebola free yet..

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...a-a-week-away-from-beating-virus-9794269.html


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## Vivjen (Oct 16, 2014)

Info from Bee's link; and BBC.
nigeria had very stringent isolation measures in place in the south of the country; figures are from WHO.

IMO; if we, the west, had done something about this when first asked we would not be in this position; but, West Africa; doesn't matter...
fragile healthcare systems just collapse, as they have; we have the facilities to contain.

Scaremongering doesn't help; one woman has taken her son out of Primary School in Peckham, just in case...

Terrorism we are told to carry on; why is this different?

See latest WHO statement, released this afto; they are in 15 more countries, to stop the spread, but the money and help is just not coming through..


----------



## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> Info from Bee's link; and BBC.
> nigeria had very stringent isolation measures in place in the south of the country; figures are from WHO.
> 
> IMO; if we, the west, had done something about this when first asked we would not be in this position; but, West Africa; doesn't matter...
> ...



The money is getting through..they are building hospitals..(sigh)...while they are building them several more thousands of people may die..

Wouldn't hospital ships make more sense..they would be segregated and yet still receive the help they need..


----------



## WhatInThe (Oct 16, 2014)

Ameriscot said:


> I used to have a lot of respect for the CDC.  No more.  Idiots.




I saw this, some body is lying or is totally uniformed even if it's the CDC not knowing the level of implementation of policy(how informed is everyone). BUT this nurse calling the CDC directly to "see if it's OK to fly" reminds of a child who got a NO from one parent and then goes to other for a YES. It sounds like this nurse was trying to cover her butt by getting the answer she wanted to hear. She's playing games when she says the CDC said it was OK to fly.


----------



## Vivjen (Oct 16, 2014)

One ship has already sailed from Falmouth; not much I know; but everything else seems to be tied up in ME, China, etc..

Liberia only has 400 Ebola beds; at least the UK will increase that; meanwhile people are having to die in their own homes; cared for by their relatives; what else can they do?


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> I saw this, some body is lying or is totally uniformed even if it's the CDC not knowing the level of implementation of policy(how informed is everyone). BUT this nurse calling the CDC directly to "see if it's OK to fly" reminds of a child who got a NO from one parent and then goes to other for a YES. It sounds like this nurse was trying to cover her butt by getting the answer she wanted to hear. She's playing games when she says the CDC said it was OK to fly.



I agree.. She had a temp of 99.5 and the guideline limit for flying is 100.4.. so 0.9 difference. She should have known better. However, she was not febrile when she first flew to Ohio, so if the Hospital or CDC did not specifically tell exposed people NOT to fly at all, then the onus is on them.


----------



## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> One ship has already sailed from Falmouth; not much I know; but everything else seems to be tied up in ME, China, etc..
> 
> Liberia only has 400 Ebola beds; at least the UK will increase that; meanwhile people are having to die in their own homes; cared for by their relatives; what else can they do?



I know..I was watching a docu about Liberia..filthy...fly blown...sewerage running down the streets....I seem to remember this disease popping up in the 90's or abouts..Wasn't it called Necrotizing Fasciitis?


----------



## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I agree.. She had a temp of 99.5 and the guideline limit for flying is 100.4.. so 0.9 difference. She should have known better. However, she was not febrile when she first flew to Ohio, so if the Hospital or CDC did not specifically tell exposed people NOT to fly at all, then the onus is on them.



Maybe she was just trying to save her own life..at the cost of others...


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> Maybe she was just trying to save her own life..at the cost of others...



How so?  She could have been treated in Ohio..  She didn't need to fly back to Dallas..  In fact she's not even there now.. but in Atlanta.


----------



## Vivjen (Oct 16, 2014)

It has been around since 1976 in humans.
previously; I think, in isolated villages in DRC, and other places, therefore self-limiting.

There is another strain in central Africa; but not so virulent, and contained; at the moment.

As an aside; I worked through the swine flu epidemic; and although people were told not to go out; not to visit doctors, chemists, supermarkets etc; people panicked so much that they took absolutely no notice of any 'instructions' so passed the infection on; regardless!
how I didn't get it, I have no idea; but we had people queuing for hours; for tablets; that they then started far too late to be effective..


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

The only bad flu strain I remember was back in the 50's anyone remember the Asian Flu? I think I read that those of us who lived through that era would have some immunity to the Swine flu.


----------



## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> How so?  She could have been treated in Ohio..  She didn't need to fly back to Dallas..  In fact she's not even there now.. but in Atlanta.



Was she from Texas though?


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

Twixie said:


> Was she from Texas though?



Not sure.. She flew to Ohio to plan a wedding with family.. so I was assuming she was originally from Ohio, but working in Texas..


----------



## Twixie (Oct 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> The only bad flu strain I remember was back in the 50's anyone remember the Asian Flu? I think I read that those of us who lived through that era would have some immunity to the Swine flu.



And then don't forget the 1918 pandemic of ''Spanish flu''

The Influenza pandemic of 1918 caused more deaths than the four years of  the Bubonic Plague. Not only did the pandemic kill more people than  died in World War I, but it killed _more people than all the wars of the 20th century combined. _It  is believed that the influenza pandemic of 1918 killed 25 million in  its first 25 weeks, while AIDS killed 25 million over a course of 25  years.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 16, 2014)

Oh geez, I heard about the one, little gal yesterday that is a nurse there.  Forgive me, but do people survive the Ebola?  I need to get more informed


----------



## Denise1952 (Oct 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> How so?  She could have been treated in Ohio..  She didn't need to fly back to Dallas..  In fact she's not even there now.. but in Atlanta.



Gads, I can't help but think this is a good way to spread this thing  She's been in 3 places since she's been infected?  Maybe I've missed something here.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 16, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Gads, I can't help but think this is a good way to spread this thing She's been in 3 places since she's been infected? Maybe I've missed something here.



Yes.. people survive Ebola. Those lucky enough to get the proper medical care before the disease has progressed too far.

And yes.. she was infected in Texas caring for the original patient Eric Duncan... BUT flew to Ohio to plan her wedding, and then flew back to Texas. She was then isolated and taken to Atlanta on a special plane in full isolation gear.

This is the problem in this day and age... people are on the move.. I think it would be very difficult to keep infected people out of anywhere if they are determined to go there.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 16, 2014)

Some calm perspective on the situation...


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## Warrigal (Oct 16, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Oh geez, I heard about the one, little gal yesterday that is a nurse there.  Forgive me, but do people survive the Ebola?  I need to get more informed



Even in Africa I think the survival rate is one in two. It should be more in developed countries if treated early.


----------



## Butterfly (Oct 17, 2014)

I still think it is idiotic to keep letting passengers come in from infected countries on the basis that some people will find a way to get around it.  Maybe that's true, but  it would slow down and decrease the number of possibly infected people coming in.  

That's like saying we should all just abandon getting the flu shots because they don't contain every possible kind of flu.  Maybe not, but the flu vaccine protects against some of the flu viruses, so it's worth getting, IMHO.  Or like saying that because the Border Patrol and Immigration can't keep all illegal immigrants out, we should just disband them and throw open our borders.  If cutting off travel from affected countries could help, it is worth doing.  GEEZ!  Why is that so hard for the government to comprehend??


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

I think it's because there would be no control over who comes in.  At least we KNOW who came from there.. But if people break up their trips into two or three different stops, and space out the stops, then lie about having been in West Africa, you would have no way of knowing.   I'm on the fence about it.  I wouldn't mind a complete travel ban...  I'm just saying want is being discussed and why.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

I have been giving this some thought... I have never travelled internationally, nor do I have a passport, but am I mistaken in the belief that passports have to be checked and stamped at each port of exit and entry? So can't we just check the passports of travelers before they board a plane to the US? I am leaning pretty close to feeling we SHOULD ban people coming from these high risk countries. We can have charter planes fly American aid workers in and out after quarantine. And obviously, since we are using the military and national guard to build clinics and hospitals there, we will have many military planes that would be able to handle the American traffic.  

I believe I will make calls to Durbin, Kirk, my congressman as well as the White House to pose these questions and voice my opinion.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 17, 2014)

Butterfly said:


> ...  GEEZ!  Why is that so hard for the government to comprehend??



I think they comprehend quite well. It's the political aspect that leads them to make the decisions they do. It wouldn't "look good" if we were to close our borders - after all, we're the land of "Give us your tired, your poor" ... 


... and evidently your virus-laden third-worlders.

No, that would never do - our world rep would be irreparably damaged, and we couldn't have _that_. :apathy:


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

Not so sure why the US should worry about it's world REP...  Seems like no matter what we do we are the big baddies anyway.  Might as well do as we please IMO..  

At anyrate...  I'm for a travel ban.  AND will make my opinion known.   SIFUPHIL... are YOU going to call your Representatives?   Perhaps instead of complaining on a social forum, we should all make our feelings known.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 17, 2014)

QuickSilver, I'm not quite sure why you constantly demand I take some form of political action. I am totally a-political. I don't believe in or trust the American political system. I don't see it accomplishes anything but fill the pockets and the egos of its members.

I wasn't aware that, as a member of this forum, I was required to do anything but state my opinions. Certainly not be urged to participate in a corrupt system of slavery.

I'm quite serene limiting my real-world exposure to people, whether they are filled with Ebola or just walking past me on the street. The government is supposed to provide for my defense, but this entire Ebola episode proves they can't even do that, so I'll happily engage in what I know will defend me - avoid contact with people as much as possible. 

THAT is the action I will take.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> QuickSilver, I'm not quite sure why you constantly demand I take some form of political action. I am totally a-political. I don't believe in or trust the American political system. I don't see it accomplishes anything but fill the pockets and the egos of its members.
> 
> I wasn't aware that, as a member of this forum, I was required to do anything but state my opinions. Certainly not be urged to participate in a corrupt system of slavery.
> 
> ...




Ok... but IMO anyone who doesn't at least try to make a difference, by voting or by letting politicians know what their feelings are shouldn't complain then. If you are apolitical... so be it.. that's fine.. But why bother with an opinion? Better stated.. I suppose it's fine to have an opinion, but why bother voicing it.. WE at this forum can't change things. 

It amazes me how people can hate the government, not trust the government.. YET.. expect the government to protect them and help them when they need it or are afraid of a threat.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 17, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Ok... but IMO anyone who doesn't at least try to make a difference, by voting or by letting politicians know what their feelings are shouldn't complain then. If you are apolitical... so be it.. that's fine.. But why bother with an opinion? Better stated.. I suppose it's fine to have an opinion, but why bother voicing it.. WE at this forum can't change things.



That's a commonly-encountered belief in my world - that if you don't vote (or get in touch with your representatives, etc) then you have no right to express an opinion (or in the vernacular, to bitch).

I've never seen it that way. My right to complain is independent of my political leanings. It's one of those inalienable rights that we're all born with. 

By the way, I AM trying to make a difference - I teach my students how to live their lives without depending upon the government - or anyone else - to help them.

As for voicing said opinions on this forum ... well, of course it is impossible for a virtual conversation to accomplish quite as much as a real-world one, but it DOES sometimes lead to a modification of people's thoughts. That's all that I would ever expect to happen here. In fact, I think you're short-changing yourself (and others here) when you state that WE can't change things.

Change WILL happen and CAN happen through forum discussions - the catalyst has to come from _someplace_.



> It amazes me how people can hate the government, not trust the government.. YET.. expect the government to protect them and help them when they need it or are afraid of a threat.



I _don't_ expect them to protect or help me - I was merely referring to the basic principles of American government as written in the Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

Well explained!    However, you have not changed my opinion about being involved in the process...and opinion expression is useless without action.   AND I agree with the bill of rights by the way.


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## oakapple (Oct 17, 2014)

At least, this situation will hurry along the eventual vaccine needed to prevent so many deaths in West African countries. Up to now, the money wasn't there for research because it was seen as an 'African' thing, now it could well be a world wide thing!Containment is everything at the moment, to stop the spread.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

oakapple said:


> At least, this situation will hurry along the eventual vaccine needed to prevent so many deaths in West African countries. Up to now, the money wasn't there for research because it was seen as an 'African' thing, now it could well be a world wide thing!Containment is everything at the moment, to stop the spread.




I agree... we need to erradicate this disease by vaccination and by proper treatment of those who have contracted it... BUT until we do... to me preventing people who have possibley exposed should not be allowed to travel without first being quarantined.


----------



## Misty (Oct 17, 2014)

*Obama will name Ron Klain as Ebola Czar*

    By *Jake Tapper*, Chief Washington Correspondent
 updated 10:49 AM EDT, Fri October 17, 2014

*Washington (CNN)* -- President Barack Obama will appoint Ron Klain his "Ebola czar," knowledgeable sources tell CNN.
 The president on Thursday  signaled his openness to the idea to have one individual coordinating  the entire federal response to any threat of an outbreak in the United  States.

    "It may make sense for us  to have one person ... so that after this initial surge of activity, we  can have a more regular process just to make sure that we're crossing  all the T's and dotting all the I's going forward," Obama said.

The administration has  been criticized for its response to the incidents of Ebola in the United  States, in terms of how prepared hospitals have been for potential  Ebola patients and also how prepared healthcare workers were in terms of  their personal protective gear. Some lawmakers have called for a travel  ban on individuals coming from West Africa where the outbreak is most  serious but the administration has so far not embraced that idea.
Klain is highly regarded  at the White House as a good manager with excellent relationships both  in the administration and on Capitol Hill. His supervision of the  allocation of funds in the stimulus act -- at the time and ncredible and complicated  government undertaking -- is respected in Washington. He does not have  any extensive background in health care but the job is regarded as a  managerial challenge. "He's strong. He's very  tough," said CNN Political analyst David Gergen. "It's important in this  job to be a coordinator; you have to knock heads together. He's tough  enough to do that."

Gergen said that while  Klain doesn't have a health care background, he does have both domestic  policy and foreign policy assignments on his portfolio and both will  come into play as the administration deals with Ebola.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/17/politics/ebola-czar-ron-klain/

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Too bad he doesn't have a health care background, but maybe he will consider stopping commercial travel from the affected areas to the U.S. The refusal to do so comes across as political correctness in the extreme. We already have some immigrants with diseases here, and now we are welcoming those travelers from ebola stricken area's. Americans safety and medical treatment of those affected here, should be the most important concern at this time.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

That's fine... but had we had a Surgeon General he could have acted in that capacity and he would have a medical background too.  

I don't think it's a situation of "political correctness" at all.   The director of the CDC and the WHO.. are saying that it is easier to control and track people arriving than to drive people underground in their attempts to enter the US.

We have to remember that the President is relying on these people for advise.  He's not a doctor or an epidemiologist.. and he can't wave a magic wand and make ebola go away, or stop anyone from getting in and spreading it.  All he can do is weigh options and rational given to him by the "experts".  They are telling him that banning air travel to the US will not help.   I think most Americans feel otherwise.


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## Misty (Oct 17, 2014)

Those keeping citizens from the affected regions away by border control is credited by health officials as one of their successful safety practices according to the below article, Quicksilver. In one of the comments from the article, it was said that "congressional hearings on CNN. african countries are closing air travel, so why can't we?" Good question. 


*Africa Stems Ebola Via Border Closings, Luck*

   NAIROBI, Kenya — Oct 17, 2014, 7:15 AM ET
 By TOM ODULA and LYNSEY CHUTEL Associated Press 



Health officials battling the Ebola outbreak that has killed more than  4,500 people in West Africa have managed to limit its spread on the  continent to five countries — and two of them appear to have snuffed out  the disease.



  Officials credit tighter border controls, good patient-tracking and  other medical practices, and just plain luck with keeping Ebola confined  mostly to Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea since the outbreak was first  identified nearly seven months ago.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/africa-stems-ebola-border-closings-luck-26249603


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## Vivjen (Oct 17, 2014)

There are also no direct flights to US from these countries; as far as I can find out...you are relying on people to admit where they started their journey.


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## Twixie (Oct 17, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> There are also no direct flights to US from these countries; as far as I can find out...you are relying on people to admit where they started their journey.



Most of these people will be black...and their passports will tell all...


----------



## Misty (Oct 17, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> There are also no direct flights to US from these countries; as far as I can find out...you are relying on people to admit where they started their journey.



I'm surprised there is no way to track travelers starting journeys, Vivjen, possibly through passports etc. Something they could look into starting.


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## Vivjen (Oct 17, 2014)

Apparently there is some difficulty with passenger lists from the airlines....leave that with me for now!


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## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

What about passports?  Don't passports have to be stamped?  Would they no indicate each port passed thru?


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## Vivjen (Oct 17, 2014)

Wait for it......
passenger lists are allegedly confidential; and can only be released to law enforcement agencies under a court order.
i had a feeling it wasn't quite as easy as it appeared.

Then, of course, one has to obtain lists from different countries, to find the start of a journey.....sounds like a minefield to me....but I digress; sorry.


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## Vivjen (Oct 17, 2014)

Many counties don't stamp passports....


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## Denise1952 (Oct 17, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> I think they comprehend quite well. It's the political aspect that leads them to make the decisions they do. It wouldn't "look good" if we were to close our borders - after all, we're the land of "Give us your tired, your poor" ...
> 
> 
> ... and evidently your virus-laden third-worlders.
> ...



Yeah, that "look good" will killya in all aspects of life.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> Wait for it......
> passenger lists are allegedly confidential; and can only be released to law enforcement agencies under a court order.
> i had a feeling it wasn't quite as easy as it appeared.
> 
> Then, of course, one has to obtain lists from different countries, to find the start of a journey.....sounds like a minefield to me....but I digress; sorry.



Things are never as simplistic as some would like to believe.... are they..


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## Twixie (Oct 17, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> Many counties don't stamp passports....



Yes but people coming from the infected zones will have a Liberian..Sierra Leone..or a Guinea passport?


----------



## WhatInThe (Oct 17, 2014)

Now because this women decided to travel knowing the possible consequences including transmission of an extremely deadly disease the mushrooming and/or domino effect has started. 800 airline passengers are being notified to monitor themselves. That's 800 passengers that could spread it, not likely but these are perfect example of the numbers of people and/or how fast this thing will spread or grow. 


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-officials-monitor-12-people-contact-her.html


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## Vivjen (Oct 17, 2014)

Not necessarily; they may be French, or UK for older people....I will have another look!


----------



## Twixie (Oct 17, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> Now because this women decided to travel knowing the possible consequences including transmission of an extremely deadly disease the mushrooming and/or domino effect has started. 800 airline passengers are being notified to monitor themselves. That's 800 passengers that could spread it, not likely but these are perfect example of the numbers of people and/or how fast this thing will spread or grow.
> 
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-officials-monitor-12-people-contact-her.html



It will just take one...but apparently Ebola is more easily caught from a dead body...e.g. someone who has died from Ebola...

In Liberia, the grave diggers have very little protection..basically a pair of rubber gloves...an overall..and a face mask..which are used over and over again..

They haven't been paid for a week..and have gone on strike..after burying 53 bodies...


----------



## Twixie (Oct 17, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> Not necessarily; they may be French, or UK for older people....I will have another look!



Yes..they may have a French or UK passport..it doesn't protect them from Ebola!


----------



## Denise1952 (Oct 17, 2014)

oakapple said:


> At least, this situation will hurry along the eventual vaccine needed to prevent so many deaths in West African countries. Up to now, the money wasn't there for research because it was seen as an 'African' thing, now it could well be a world wide thing!Containment is everything at the moment, to stop the spread.



That's hopefully true, sometimes it takes someone actually being killed, or dying of something to get people off their ass.  It should be a world-problem, and would be nice to have some true brains running the show.  Help in the right way etc.  Instead of the border crisis being handled (or lack thereof), don't just keep bringing people onboard until "we all" sink, help build "them" a better boat.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

Twixie said:


> It will just take one...but apparently Ebola is more easily caught from a dead body...e.g. someone who has died from Ebola...
> 
> In Liberia, the grave diggers have very little protection..basically a pair of rubber gloves...an overall..and a face mask..which are used over and over again..
> 
> They haven't been paid for a week..and have gone on strike..after burying 53 bodies...



That's because the viral load keeps increasing every day... it even keeps increasing for some time after the patient has died!...  A dead ebola victim will have billions of viral particles in their fluids.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

nwlady said:


> That's hopefully true, sometimes it takes someone actually being killed, or dying of something to get people off their ass. It should be a world-problem, and would be nice to have some true brains running the show. Help in the right way etc. Instead of the border crisis being handled (or lack thereof), don't just keep bringing people onboard until "we all" sink, help build "them" a better boat.



Don't forget though.. the CDC and research had it's funding cut substantially in the Sequestration  program.


----------



## WhatInThe (Oct 17, 2014)

Now some think this 2nd nurse may have come down with symptoms 4 days earlier than reported.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/16/health/us-ebola/index.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29654727

Does she know how many lives she turned upside down let alone endanger?


----------



## Twixie (Oct 17, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> That's because the viral load keeps increasing every day... it even keeps increasing for some time after the patient has died!...  A dead ebola victim will have billions of viral particles in their fluids.



Why ''fluids?''

I have seen quite a few dead people...I didn't see, or wasn't aware of any ''fluids''


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## QuickSilver (Oct 17, 2014)

She wasn't thinking is all I can fathom...  She's young.. and the only thing on her mind was planning that wedding.. I know she is a nurse, but a very young one.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 17, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> Now because this women decided to travel knowing the possible consequences including transmission of an extremely deadly disease the mushrooming and/or domino effect has started. 800 airline passengers are being notified to monitor themselves. That's 800 passengers that could spread it, not likely but these are perfect example of the numbers of people and/or how fast this thing will spread or grow.
> 
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-officials-monitor-12-people-contact-her.html



I did hear the guy from CDC say that "they should have gone in right away".  In my pee-brain, I am thinking why anyone, after knowing the guy had Ebola, was allowed to leave the hospital even.  Maybe someone here has already covered that.  Especially a nurse that had come in contact with him is just allowed to leave and fly out? What did I miss, no doubt something


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## SifuPhil (Oct 17, 2014)

nwlady said:


> I did hear the guy from CDC say that "they should have gone in right away".  In my pee-brain, I am thinking why anyone, after knowing the guy had Ebola, was allowed to leave the hospital even.  Maybe someone here has already covered that.  Especially a nurse that had come in contact with him is just allowed to leave and fly out? What did I miss, no doubt something



You're far too logical - you have to think like a hospital administrator or a safety manager. The former doesn't give a damn - the latter has no power to order anyone around.

I find it difficult to swallow that we have TSA doing full-body strip-searches on a daily basis, but determining where a passenger is coming from proves impossible.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 17, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> You're far too logical - you have to think like a hospital administrator or a safety manager. The former doesn't give a damn - the latter has no power to order anyone around.
> 
> I find it difficult to swallow that we have TSA doing full-body strip-searches on a daily basis, but determining where a passenger is coming from proves impossible.



Excellent point, and this day and age, you think we'd have this nailed down, especially when we have things like 911 happening on American soil.  I just don't see where those running the show have their priorities straight.  And if people are lining their pockets (money is the One True God) are not smart enough to know they can't spend it if their dead?


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## SifuPhil (Oct 17, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Excellent point, and this day and age, you think we'd have this nailed down, especially when we have things like 911 happening on American soil.  I just don't see where those running the show have their priorities straight.  And if people are lining their pockets (money is the One True God) are not smart enough to know they can't spend it if their dead?



I think the love of money will always outpace the fear of death ... 

... although when I lost $500 yesterday in my arbitrage hobby I was welcoming death ... :ghost:


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## Denise1952 (Oct 17, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> I think the love of money will always outpace the fear of death ...
> 
> ... although when I lost $500 yesterday in my arbitrage hobby I was welcoming death ... :ghost:



I'm sure you are right Phil.  Funny, I was just thinking what good would it do me to have a million dollars to spend right now?  I couldn't enjoy it because of my health, couldn't go on those tropical trips, can't do shit without your health


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## WhatInThe (Oct 17, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Excellent point, and this day and age, you think we'd have this nailed down, especially when we have things like 911 happening on American soil.  I just don't see where those running the show have their priorities straight.  And if people are lining their pockets (money is the One True God) are not smart enough to know they can't spend it if their dead?



Visa's expedited from Ebola region in August yet all summer along south Americans coming across the border en masse getting hearings years down the road.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...Extensions-From-Ebola-Countries-in-August?amp

This is right up there with oh nothing to worry about, everything's under control. They had to know or maybe even wanted this thing to at least grab headlines. This yet another item for the zero or poor credibility column.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 17, 2014)

nwlady said:


> I'm sure you are right Phil.  Funny, I was just thinking what good would it do me to have a million dollars to spend right now?  I couldn't enjoy it because of my health, couldn't go on those tropical trips, can't do shit without your health



... but then couldn't you pay to be frozen until they figure out what's wrong and how to fix it?


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## Denise1952 (Oct 17, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> ... but then couldn't you pay to be frozen until they figure out what's wrong and how to fix it?



Shoot, that's right!  I'll go call them now, uh, wait!  Who's them? LOL!!


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## SifuPhil (Oct 17, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Shoot, that's right!  I'll go call them now, uh, wait!  Who's them? LOL!!



Get in touch with the Walt Disney Corporation - they can probably steer you to the right folks ...


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## Denise1952 (Oct 17, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Get in touch with the Walt Disney Corporation - they can probably steer you to the right folks ...



Ok, how bout Santa?  He's got plenty of room to put me away for couple 1000 years


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## SifuPhil (Oct 17, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Ok, how bout Santa?  He's got plenty of room to put me away for couple 1000 years



I wouldn't trust those elves, though ... I've heard they play ice hockey on top of the frozen clients ... :GB_bonesrock:


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## Denise1952 (Oct 17, 2014)

Gads, that's not a bad deal, they provide entertainment while your in the freezer!  Talk about front-row seats, LOL!


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## WhatInThe (Oct 17, 2014)

This women said she felt funny in Ohio.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-o...nurse-with-ebola-said-she-felt-funny-in-ohio/

I don't think we have the honest story from her, the hospital or CDC.


Heard a recent report said she observed taking Tylenol at the airport although still trying to confirm. But the problem with Tylenol and body temperature screening is that it temporarily lowers a fever. Even experts admit Tylenol use could be a problem.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-10-09/airport-ebola-screens-hampered-by-dormant-virus-tylenol

How many are going to an airport or port sick loaded up with Tylenol to just to get by the screenings?


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## Misty (Oct 20, 2014)

Second Nurse To Contract Ebola Retains High-Profile Attorney
October 20, 2014 6:59 AM



CLEVELAND (CBS News/CBS Cleveland/AP) — Amber Vinson, the second nurse in Dallas to contract the Ebola virus, has retained a high-profile attorney, her family said in a statement.
In the statement, obtained by CBS affiliate WOIO in Cleveland, the family said they “are troubled by some of the negative public comments and media coverage that mischaracterize Amber and her actions.”

“Suggestions that she ignored any of the physician and government-provided protocols recommended to her are patently untrue and hurtful. In the interest of Amber and our family, we have retained esteemed attorney Billy Martin to provide us with legal counsel during this unfortunate and troubling time,” the family said in the statement.
Martin’s past clients include Michael Vick and disgraced former Idaho Sen. Larry Craig.
Vinson was among the team of medical professionals who treated the first person to die of Ebola on U.S. soil, Thomas Eric 

Duncan. Between Sept. 30-Oct. 2 and Oct. 5-Oct. 8, Vinson actively engaged in caring for Duncan, records show. She inserted catheters, drew blood, and dealt with Duncan’s body fluids while wearing protective gear.
On Oct. 10, two days after Duncan died, the 29-year-old Vinson flew into Cleveland from Dallas. She visited a bridal salon in Akron the following day, and that same night fellow nurse Nina Pham tested positive for the disease.
Vinson called and reported her temperature to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention two days later, and they cleared her to fly out of Cleveland to Dallas. Back in Dallas, Vinson reported having a fever.

On Oct. 15, after Vinson is diagnosed with having contracted Ebola, state and local health officials confirm Vinson flew out of Cleveland and address precautions taken to decontaminate and limit spread of illness. Vinson is transferred to a special bio-containment unit at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta. 

Officials in Ohio have since announced they are monitoring the health of a total 153 people in Ohio who had contact with Vinson, flew on the same flights as her or visited the same bridal shop. Three people in Ohio have now been ordered quarantined in their homes.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/...contract-ebola-retains-high-profile-attorney/


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## Vivjen (Oct 20, 2014)

Nigeria has been declared free of Ebola; due to the use of aggressive quarantining techniques; and the nurse who contracted Ebola in Spain has had a negative test, so is recovering; but will remain in isolation until a second negative test is produced.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 20, 2014)

Thanks for the article Misty,

I think we need a new show called "As the Web is Weaved".  It will be interesting to watch, and I'm wondering how many more cases are going to show up in the U.S.


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## Misty (Oct 20, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> Nigeria has been declared free of Ebola; due to the use of aggressive quarantining techniques; and the nurse who contracted Ebola in Spain has had a negative test, so is recovering; but will remain in isolation until a second negative test is produced.



Good news, Vivjen and Thanks for sharing. Had read an article on how some do well on the new medication and some don't...that the thinking it's Very Important to be treated early, quick rehydration, plasma transfusions and a healthy immune system to help fight it.


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## Vivjen (Oct 20, 2014)

Sounds good to me too, Misty; a very small light at the end of a very long tunnel...

There are some vaccines beginning clinical trials too..


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## Misty (Oct 20, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Thanks for the article Misty,
> 
> I think we need a new show called "As the Web is Weaved".  It will be interesting to watch, and I'm wondering how many more cases are going to show up in the U.S.



I read today, Denise, that the first nurse has been downgraded to fair, and it's rumored that her boyfriend is showing symptoms and has been taken to a hospital and put in isolation, but a recent update states he was not showing any symptoms but is being monitored. The American Hospital Association said that fair is not a downgrade, that it is better than good. :saywhat:

Good name for a new show, Denise, and very fitting.


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## WhatInThe (Mar 1, 2015)

As expected one of the nurses infected will be suing and rightly so. She still has problems from disease and/or treatment including liver problems and hair falling out.

http://res.dallasnews.com/interactives/nina-pham/


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## QuickSilver (Mar 2, 2015)

Presbiterian Hospital really bungled that entire ordeal..  They didn't give their employees adequate tools to do their job and be safe..  They deserve it to be sued


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