# Senior Apartment Applications Were Too Intrusive



## OneEyedDiva (Jul 11, 2020)

I was clearing out my file cabinet and came across blank apartment applications. About a decade ago, I was going to let my Honorary Daughter take my apartment and I was going to move to a senior building. I was doing this because at the time she was very sickly, in and out of the hospital too often and it affected her income. She is the mother of two of my grandchildren and she has an older daughter (all of whom were still minors). I would have charged her "rent" of what I actually pay for our carrying charges (aka mortgage + HOA fees) which would have been only 30% of what she was paying for rent at the time.

I got applications from 4 of the best privately owned senior buildings in my city and two towns over.  The waiting times were from 2 - 4 years. These were the questions they asked: Head of household's race, annual household income, Social Security number, bank and investment account information including how much in each account and the account numbers. Now *hold on*! No way would I have wanted to divulge that kind of information, especially when I noticed at the one office I visited in person there was no lock on the file cabinet. Hey what's to stop the cleaning man or lady from taking a peek when the office staff goes home? That seemed like identity theft waiting to happen. Blessedly my HD decided she didn't want me to put myself out plus she really needed 3 bedrooms, not 2 like my apartment.

Has anyone here ever had to fill out very intrusive applications for apartments or anything else? Were wait times excessive?


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## Pinky (Jul 11, 2020)

As far as I can recall, monthly wage and length of employment.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 11, 2020)

Wow, that IS invasive!  Glad you're not having to fill all that out!


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## Kaila (Jul 11, 2020)

I agree that those did ask for too much info, especially for the _application._
If they need more info than basic, then they should ask for it, much later on, when they have an opening, and not to sit in their files for years.

If it effects where on the wait list someone is prioritized or not, then still, should be more general, at least at the outset.  Such as a range, possibly, if they can tell you a purpose.

Those are my opinions.  I dont know what is legal.
I would not answer such intrusive questions.
I am glad you didnt need to move!


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## twinkles (Jul 11, 2020)

i would never give out my bank account information---


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## katlupe (Jul 11, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I was clearing out my file cabinet and came across blank apartment applications. About a decade ago, I was going to let my Honorary Daughter take my apartment and I was going to move to a senior building. I was doing this because at the time she was very sickly, in and out of the hospital too often and it affected her income. She is the mother of two of my grandchildren and she has an older daughter (all of whom were still minors). I would have charged her "rent" of what I actually pay for our carrying charges (aka mortgage + HOA fees) which would have been only 30% of what she was paying for rent at the time.
> 
> I got applications from 4 of the best privately owned senior buildings in my city and two towns over.  The waiting times were from 2 - 4 years. These were the questions they asked. Race of Head of Household, annual household income, Social Security number, bank and investment account information including how much in each account and the account numbers. Now *hold on*! No way would I have wanted to divulge that kind of information, especially when I noticed at the one office I visited in person that there was no lock on the file cabinet. Hey what's to stop the cleaning man or lady from taking a peek when the office staff goes home? That seemed like identity theft waiting to happen. Blessedly my HD decided she didn't want me to put myself out plus she really needed 3 bedrooms, not 2 like my apartment.
> 
> Has anyone here ever had to fill out very intrusive applications for apartments or anything else? Were wait times excessive?



Yes, I have filled out a 28 page application that asked all those questions. I had to sign papers that they could ask my credit union what my balance was in my accounts and that I hadn't taken a large sum of money out before I applied for this. You also have to give copies of your Social Security benefit letters. If you are applying for assistance to live in these apartments (for low income) they have to qualify you. 

Some tenants here had to wait 2 years or more. I did not have to wait at all because my need was considered an emergency so they put me on top of the list. That may cause people on the list to have longer waits due to emergency housing needs. Every year I have to be certified again but it is not such a long application or process. I was overwhelmed by the whole thing when I first got the application, but I am very glad I followed through. It was the best thing I could do for myself.


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## Pecos (Jul 11, 2020)

"bank and investment account information including how much in each account and the account numbers"

Really? That is plain crazy. They don't even ask for that when filling out the paperwork for a high level government security clearance. 

I think I would ask them if they knew "where the sun didn't shine", because that is where they could poke that form.


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## Kaila (Jul 11, 2020)

The ones that have a sliding rent scale, and are income-based for assistance with rental expense, do ask many details, for other reasons, to determine who is qualified for the assistance and for any available apartment .....Privately owned senior housing would be asking for entirely different reasons, i would think, and the reasons for the wait lists, are mostly different, is my guess.


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 11, 2020)

These days so much is based on Credit Score that much of the detailed information is no longer needed to determine a person's ability/willingness to pay. 

When I moved into my current apartment eleven years ago I did not have a verifiable source of income and was asked to provide detailed financial information.   I treated the request like a small child asking about sex.  I provided enough information on the rental application to satisfy their curiosity and left it at that.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 11, 2020)

Kaila said:


> I agree that those did ask for too much info, especially for the _application._
> If they need more info than basic, then they should ask for it, much later on, when they have an opening, and not to sit in their files for years.
> 
> If it effects where on the wait list someone is prioritized or not, then still, should be more general, at least at the outset.  Such as a range, possibly, if they can tell you a purpose.
> ...


Thank you Kalia and @SeaBreeze. I was really relieved not to have to go through with that. Kalia asking for all that info was allegedly to see who would qualify for Section 8, a rental assistance program. I would have told them right off the bat I'm over income for rental assistance so no need for me to answer all those questions.
@Pecos and @twinkles no way in *hell* would I have given out my bank and brokerage information.


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## MarciKS (Jul 11, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I was clearing out my file cabinet and came across blank apartment applications. About a decade ago, I was going to let my Honorary Daughter take my apartment and I was going to move to a senior building. I was doing this because at the time she was very sickly, in and out of the hospital too often and it affected her income. She is the mother of two of my grandchildren and she has an older daughter (all of whom were still minors). I would have charged her "rent" of what I actually pay for our carrying charges (aka mortgage + HOA fees) which would have been only 30% of what she was paying for rent at the time.
> 
> I got applications from 4 of the best privately owned senior buildings in my city and two towns over.  The waiting times were from 2 - 4 years. These were the questions they asked: Head of household's race, annual household income, Social Security number, bank and investment account information including how much in each account and the account numbers. Now *hold on*! No way would I have wanted to divulge that kind of information, especially when I noticed at the one office I visited in person there was no lock on the file cabinet. Hey what's to stop the cleaning man or lady from taking a peek when the office staff goes home? That seemed like identity theft waiting to happen. Blessedly my HD decided she didn't want me to put myself out plus she really needed 3 bedrooms, not 2 like my apartment.
> 
> Has anyone here ever had to fill out very intrusive applications for apartments or anything else? Were wait times excessive?


When I had to apply for a HUD apt they asked more than that. I needed a place to live that I could afford so I answered the questions. I can understand them wanting to know if a person speaks English or not. I don't get why they need to know what race you are.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 12, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> When I had to apply for a HUD apt they asked more than that. I needed a place to live that I could afford so I answered the questions. I can understand them wanting to know if a person speaks English or not. I don't get why they need to know what race you are.


I didn't even list everything they ask for. I imagine some were what you had to answer.  They ask for race because (they claim) it's for statistical purposes. Hud used to oversee our cooperative too because some of the stockholders (unit owners) qualified for Section 8. When HUD was involved they used to inspect everybody's units once a year. Due to neglect by our now former board president in seeing that certain repairs HUD wanted done around here got done, HUD dropped S8 and pulled out. That caused financial difficulties for some of our residents. How long did you have to wait to get into an apartment Marci?


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## MarciKS (Jul 12, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I didn't even list everything they ask for. I imagine some were what you had to answer.  They ask for race because (they claim) it's for statistical purposes. Hud used to oversee our cooperative too because some of the stockholders (unit owners) qualified for Section 8. When HUD was involved they used to inspect everybody's units once a year. Due to neglect by our now former board president in seeing that certain repairs HUD wanted done around here got done, HUD dropped S8 and pulled out. That caused financial difficulties for some of our residents. How long did you have to wait to get into an apartment Marci?


They did cleaning inspections once a month where I was in order to make sure they passed their inspections. Plus because they had a bed bug case once that was super bad. As for the wait...I got lucky. There were several apts open & the line was short. Two other people didn't get in. I got the apt of one of our new residents at the nursing home. 

She must have had a beautiful soul because I think she left some of it in that apt.


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## JaniceM (Jul 20, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I was clearing out my file cabinet and came across blank apartment applications. About a decade ago, I was going to let my Honorary Daughter take my apartment and I was going to move to a senior building. I was doing this because at the time she was very sickly, in and out of the hospital too often and it affected her income. She is the mother of two of my grandchildren and she has an older daughter (all of whom were still minors). I would have charged her "rent" of what I actually pay for our carrying charges (aka mortgage + HOA fees) which would have been only 30% of what she was paying for rent at the time.
> 
> I got applications from 4 of the best privately owned senior buildings in my city and two towns over.  The waiting times were from 2 - 4 years. These were the questions they asked: Head of household's race, annual household income, Social Security number, bank and investment account information including how much in each account and the account numbers. Now *hold on*! No way would I have wanted to divulge that kind of information, especially when I noticed at the one office I visited in person there was no lock on the file cabinet. Hey what's to stop the cleaning man or lady from taking a peek when the office staff goes home? That seemed like identity theft waiting to happen. Blessedly my HD decided she didn't want me to put myself out plus she really needed 3 bedrooms, not 2 like my apartment.
> 
> Has anyone here ever had to fill out very intrusive applications for apartments or anything else? Were wait times excessive?


Woooo!       I've been in this apartment complex for well over a decade, it's not senior housing, but there were no complications like you mentioned!  

In fact, it's the only place I've ever rented that required a background check-  and when I asked what they were checking was told they wanted to ensure prospective tenants didn't have a history of evictions.  
All the application itself asked were basic questions-  how many people are in your household, etc.  
All in all, I think it took around a week from initially applying to receiving approval to move in.


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## Butterfly (Jul 27, 2020)

I think all the intrusive questions people are talking about are the result of having to comply with the requirements for HUD and/or other rental assistance.  My sister went thru this when she was trying to get assistance with rent or government housing because she is totally disabled.  After all that she qualified, but the wait here is about 112 years because of the number of people on the waiting list (which yes, they do update to remove those who have died or who no longer qualify for one reason or another). Last time I heard, they aren't even taking new applications here.


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## Duster (Jul 27, 2020)

Back in the 1990's I was single and applied for HUD assisted housing. I had to give bank account information {I had $10K in that account}. What bothered me was that a maintenance man was sitting in the room listening to everything I was saying.  I felt like my privacy was being invaded.  

Another thing they made me do was to go to the police department and get them to check to see if I had been arrested {I never have} and bring in a signed paper, stating that I was clear.  The good thing about that is that if my neighbors also had to clear, I would be living among law abiding citizens. 

HUD paid about $80 of my monthly rent for 6 months, which meant being able to have health insurance.  That's the only time I've been on assisted living and I got off of it as soon as possible.


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## Duster (Jul 27, 2020)

I used to sell on jewelry and small antiques on ETSY.  In 2017 the company demanded a bank account number in order to stay as a dealer.
I was being paid through PayPal and refused to give them one.  They closed both of my shops.  

I thought about finding a different bank and opening an account with just enough money to cover expenses and giving that information to them, but I decided that what they were asking for was too invasive and none of their business.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 27, 2020)

Duster said:


> I used to sell on jewelry and small antiques on ETSY.  In 2017 the company demanded a bank account number in order to stay as a dealer.
> I was being paid through PayPal and refused to give them one.  They closed both of my shops.
> 
> I thought about finding a different bank and opening an account with just enough money to cover expenses and giving that information to them, but I decided that what they were asking for was too invasive and none of their business.


I was thinking you could open an account especially for that as I was reading but I don't blame you for just saying forget it Duster. I'm leery about any entity that wants my bank account number unless I'm initiating and authorizing direct deposits or debits.


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## Luv2Cycle (Aug 1, 2020)

It sounds like they gave you the Section 8 application instead of the normal rental application. Just a guess


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## Sunny (Aug 10, 2020)

Sounds that way to me too, Luv.  A lot of those questions sound very dubious, maybe even illegal.

Reminds me of once, years ago, when my husband and I were thinking about buying a place at the Jersey shore. We went into a realtor's office, and practically the first question she asked us was what religion we were!


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## Macfan (Aug 10, 2020)

I see no problem in them asking anything they want, so long as they don't have a problem with my answering what I want   . Hint: they get no account info period. Others may have chimed in with the same, if so, just add me to the list. Don...


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## tired old lady (Oct 30, 2021)

I felt like I was taking off my clothes with those applications. I was denied once when I tried to buy a co-op cash. And I had all the funds necessary. Others just sent me pages and pages of questions that I felt were nobody's business. Doesn't credit score and tenant history have anything to do with things anymore? And, no, I was never arrested or sued.


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## Pepper (Oct 30, 2021)

I don't know where this co-op is located, but in my state co-ops are practically their own nations, and get away with a lot.


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## Judycat (Oct 30, 2021)

Applying for low income anything is going to get you the 3rd degree.


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## Devi (Oct 30, 2021)

Slightly off topic, but hospital/doctor information forms seem always to ask for my Social Security number — which I never give them (and they don't balk at that).


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## WheatenLover (Oct 30, 2021)

I tried to rent just a regular apartment last year. I had the money to pay the rent a year in advance (length of lease), since I had no pay stubs, and offered to do so.  They still wanted to check my credit and criminal histories. I don't have a criminal history and my credit score is great. Still, they would not let me rent the apartment because I didn't have a job. I had a stellar, 12 year, tenant history.

Then they charged me $125 for the credit/criminal checks. I reported it to my bank as fraud since they told me they were sure I would get accepted. The charge was reversed immediately by the apartment company.

In retrospect, I'm glad. I'd stayed in my daughter's apartment at that complex for a couple of months at the very beginning of Covid, and I felt trapped. I mean like a trapped animal. Concrete everywhere. No woods, pastures, no looking around and seeing no people or houses, no wild animals in evidence.

Note: My children were afraid I would get Covid and die. Having children try to parent one as if one were an unwitting small child is not fun. So I returned to my home late one night, while the two of them were paying attention to their screens.  They were not keeping me hostage of course.


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## Tish (Oct 30, 2021)

Those questions are extremely invasive, and what the hell does race have to do with things?


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## OneEyedDiva (Oct 30, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Sounds that way to me too, Luv.  A lot of those questions sound very dubious, maybe even illegal.
> 
> Reminds me of once, years ago, when my husband and I were thinking about buying a place at the Jersey shore. We went into a realtor's office, and practically the first question she asked us was what religion we were!


I'm just seeing some of the replies to this thread!! Sunny I know several people who lived in that particular complex.  One of my cousins, my uncle, a former neighbor who moved form here to there and a friend of my mom's lived there. My former neighbor moved most recently, about two or three years ago. I don't know if they changed their questionnaire. I never thought to ask her. Maybe I'll do that.

@Devi  A few years ago, I started just putting the last four digits. More recently I notice that's all some questionnaire's ask for.


tired old lady said:


> I felt like I was taking off my clothes with those applications. I was denied once when I tried to buy a co-op cash. And I had all the funds necessary. Others just sent me pages and pages of questions that I felt were nobody's business. Doesn't credit score and tenant history have anything to do with things anymore? And, no, I was never arrested or sued.


I would think they would jump at the chance to get the cash up front! Before my HD told me she would not take this apartment, I had also looked into buying a co-op heading in the direction of south Jersey. The listings were inexpensive ($40,000 - $60,000 range) and there were a lot of them in the same area, which made me wonder why. I understand how "stripped" you must've felt.

@Tish I mentioned in another reply that they claim they asked for race for "statistical purposes". In case you haven't noticed race enters into everything! It brings to mind a meme I saw with Laurence Fishburne's picture (I don't know if he really said this). "I'll stop playing the race card when you stop dealing it to me".


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## Manatee (Oct 30, 2021)

That title "Honorary Daughter" is excellent.  We have an honorary great grand daughter that we have only met online and in photos.

She is in Vancouver British Columbia, a very long way from Florida.


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## win231 (Oct 30, 2021)

I would have just laughed at such questions.  No way would I answer.
When I see a new dentist, I always leave the SS number blank.  I've only had one receptionist say, "You forgot to fill in your SS number."
I replied, "I didn't forget; you have no need to know."
No one has ever refused to see me; especially dentists who would lose a fortune........

It's sorta funny that people who have been the victims of identity theft & spent months or years trying to fix it are always asked, _"Why did you give out that information?"_


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## OneEyedDiva (Oct 30, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I don't know where this co-op is located, but in my state co-ops are practically their own nations, and get away with a lot.





Manatee said:


> That title "Honorary Daughter" is excellent.  We have an honorary great grand daughter that we have only met online and in photos.
> 
> She is in Vancouver British Columbia, a very long way from Florida.


Thank you Manatee. Blessedly, my HD has been in my life for close to two decades. She is the mother of two of my grandchildren and would do anything for me. We've hung out together and partied together, traveled together (with the children) and we always have a great time when we are together. Her oldest daughter is my Honorary granddaughter and my son thinks of her as one of his own.


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