# Environmental disaster here and now.



## Josiah (Feb 17, 2015)

For those of you who view the outspoken environmentalists on this forum as a bunch of prissy tree huggers, I bring to your attention the current water crisis in São Paulo Brazil.

“We’re witnessing an unprecedented water crisis in one of the world’s great industrial cities,” said Marússia Whately, a water specialist at Instituto Socioambiental, a Brazilian environmental group. “Because of environmental degradation and political cowardice, millions of people in São Paulo are now wondering when the water will run out.” For some in this traffic-choked megacity of futuristic skyscrapers, gated communities and sprawling slums, the slow-burning crisis has already meant no running water for days on end.

The entire article can and should be seen here

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/17/w...hes-sao-paulo-brazil-toward-water-crisis.html


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## QuickSilver (Feb 17, 2015)

It is very disparaging that these climate change deniers,  and and anti-environmentalists cling to their false beliefs in spite of all the data and evidence.  They would rather sling around insults than open their eyes.  Unfortunately, they will murder all the rest of us with their stubborn stupidity and shortsightedness. .

I really wish all of us prissy tree huggers had somewhere else to go..  then as far as I'm concerned they could drown in their own poison.


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## Meanderer (Feb 17, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> It is very disparaging that these climate change deniers,  and and anti-environmentalists cling to their false beliefs in spite of all the data and evidence.  They would rather sling around insults than open their eyes.  Unfortunately, they will murder all the rest of us with their stubborn stupidity and shortsightedness. .
> 
> I really wish all of us prissy tree huggers had somewhere else to go..  then as far as I'm concerned they could drown in their own poison.


You are doing the exact same thing.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 17, 2015)

Meanderer said:


> You are doing the exact same thing.



I am doing what?  Please explain..


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## tnthomas (Feb 17, 2015)

Continued worship at the temple of greed prevents many from acknowledging that their corrupt values are contributing to the demise of the planet.


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## Meanderer (Feb 17, 2015)

Meanderer said:


> You are doing the exact same thing.


You are slinging around insults.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 17, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> Continued worship at the temple of greed prevents many from acknowledging that their corrupt values are contributing to the demise of the planet.



agreed.... and since the rest of us have no other planet to go to.... we should at least try and stop it..  It's not like they are the only ones going to die.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 17, 2015)

Meanderer said:


> You are slinging around insults.



At who?   I'm disagreeing with what I see as murder of our planet for profit and greed. If you feel you fall into that category I am sorry.. but I am not insulting YOU.  Why do you take it so personally?    That's the whole problem... People mistake an attack against an ideology as if they are being personally insulted..  That is not intended.


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## Davey Jones (Feb 17, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> Continued worship at the temple of greed prevents many from acknowledging that their corrupt values are contributing to the demise of the planet.


   Got little to do with greed,you cant have greed unless you have billions and billions of earthlings to support it.


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## Don M. (Feb 17, 2015)

Josiah09 said:


> For those of you who view the outspoken environmentalists on this forum as a bunch of prissy tree huggers, I bring to your attention the current water crisis in São Paulo Brazil.
> 
> “We’re witnessing an unprecedented water crisis in one of the world’s great industrial cities,” said Marússia Whately, a water specialist at Instituto Socioambiental, a Brazilian environmental group. “Because of environmental degradation and political cowardice, millions of people in São Paulo are now wondering when the water will run out.” For some in this traffic-choked megacity of futuristic skyscrapers, gated communities and sprawling slums, the slow-burning crisis has already meant no running water for days on end.
> 
> ...



Many "experts" have been warning, for some time, that clean fresh water will be the "New Gold" in many parts of the world, as this century progresses.  Already, nearly 2 billion people, worldwide, are faced with either water shortages, or highly polluted sources.  Anyone who has gone through a couple of days without water due to a water main break, etc., should have a real appreciation for how valuable that resource is.  We, especially in this country, have become totally dependent upon our utilities, such as water, electricity, sewer systems, etc., etc.  Failure to properly maintain and protect those utilities is just a disaster waiting to happen.  

Millions of people, worldwide, depend upon glacier melt for their fresh water supplies, and the glaciers are receding at an increasing pace, due to the warming climate.  It will not be many more years before the impact of this is being felt.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 17, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> Got little to do with greed,you cant have greed unless you have billions and billions of earthlings to support it.



That is because they have not been offered a reasonable alternative..  I agree.. everyone wants and needs energy to support their lives..  and lifestyle.  However, if we put our ingenuity and tax dollar into things less deadly, yet still providing people with they want, we would all be better off.


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## Davey Jones (Feb 17, 2015)

Not to worry I just brought a one way ticket to Mar.
Mars Onewww.*mars*-one.com/


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## Davey Jones (Feb 17, 2015)

Don M. said:


> Millions of people, worldwide, depend upon glacier melt for their fresh water supplies, and the glaciers are receding at an increasing pace, due to the warming climate.  It will not be many more years before the impact of this is being felt.




Hopefully I'll be dead by then.


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## Don M. (Feb 17, 2015)

"Hopefully, I'll be dead by then"

Yes, we probably ALL will, and therein lies the problem.  Far too many people think of the "here and now", and ignore the world our grandchildren, and beyond, will be inheriting as a result of our Inaction.  We Must all agree to some Sacrifice Now, in order to leave a decent world and environment for those who follow us.  Our parents were willing to look towards the future, and gave us all the best lives that have been seen in centuries...are we Not as Good as they were???


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## tnthomas (Feb 17, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> Got little to do with greed,you cant have greed unless you have billions and billions of earthlings to support it.



The rich and big corporations have infinitely more power than the billions of people on this planet, most of which are poor by any standard.

     Just for balance- China, which is *communist *(in name only) is contributing almost a quarter of the World's carbon-dioxide emissions(US=16.16%).    

  Same issue, those in-power have infinitely more culpability for damage to the environment than the billions of "have-nots" on this planet.


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## GeneMO (Feb 18, 2015)

Quicksilver??   May I ask you what things you do, concrete,, physical things, to prevent climate change?  I am one of those deniers.

Gene


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## GeneMO (Feb 18, 2015)

You there Quicksilver?


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## Jackie22 (Feb 19, 2015)

Each of us should do all we can to save our planet, the largest impact we can make is to vote for people that have environmental issues and climate change as one of their top priorities.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 19, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> Each of us should do all we can to save our planet, the largest impact we can make is to vote for people that have environmental issues and climate change as one of their top priorities.



  How much can one single person do... other than recycle.. use paper not plastic.. drive a fuel efficient car... put up a solar panel if they can afford it...   BUT.. as you said Jackie.. we can  VOTE for sensible people who will try to pass legislation to regulate green house gasses and promote investments in green energy.


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## rt3 (Feb 19, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> How much can one single person do... other than recycle.. use paper not plastic.. drive a fuel efficient car... put up a solar panel if they can afford it...   BUT.. as you said Jackie.. we can  VOTE for sensible people who will try to pass legislation to regulate green house gasses and promote investments in green energy.



yup get Mickey to do it.


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## GeneMO (Feb 19, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> How much can one single person do... other than recycle.. use paper not plastic.. drive a fuel efficient car... put up a solar panel if they can afford it...   BUT.. as you said Jackie.. we can  VOTE for sensible people who will try to pass legislation to regulate green house gasses and promote investments in green energy.



Do you dry your clothes with a clothes dryer, or have a clothes line out in the yard, that will save a lots of electricity.
Do you use air conditioning in your house?  Then shut it off if you are serious about saving the planet.
Do you use electric hand dryers in bathrooms?  Wipe your hands on your pants, or use paper towels, trees grow back.

I dont believe humans are causing climate change.  So I am a non believer.

But.   I have planted approx 6,000 trees on my farm, and not to be cut either.  These are not Christmas trees or trees to be harvested.

I have installed  a cedar tree revetment along my creek where we anchored 100 trees along a creek bank that was erroding.

I also did two riparian buffer strips, and restored over 100 acres back to native prarie grass.

I maintain a bluebird trail of over 40 bluebird houses.

I started my own stream team through the Missouri Department of Conservation 

And I am a volunteer Water Quality moniter, trained by the MDC and DNR folks to monitor my local stream for pollution.

And I own a Century farm and am the 4th generation to farm it.  So I know weather.

So I get a little defensive when people claim I am an idiot because I dont believe a bunch of govt. bureaucrats who cannot predict the weather next week with more than a 50% accuracy rate, but then try to preach to me that the sky is falling.

The same people who last week admitted that for 40 years they have told us eggs are bad for us, then changed their minds.  "Never mind"!!


Gene


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## QuickSilver (Feb 19, 2015)

well.... congradulations....


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## GeneMO (Feb 19, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> Each of us should do all we can to save our planet, the largest impact we can make is to vote for people that have environmental issues and climate change as one of their top priorities.



How much taxpayer money did they loose in the Solyndra debacle?   How many endangered birds are being chopped up by the windmills?  How come the govt. solutions always involve more cost to me, more taxes stolen from taxpayers, but the elite never give up jetting around the skies in their Gulfstreams?  How come Al Gore has gotten filty rich over his bogus Global Warming hoaxes?  What caused those glaciers up on Fall River road West of Estes Park to melt 1700 years ago?  Cave men must have had the fires in their caves too hot.

Why does Obama tie the US to strict emission standards, but let the Chinese communist delay theirs 20 some years?   I am positive the Chinese will keep their word 2 decades from now.  They are an honest folk.

We could all turn off the power on the entire US, park 100% of the cars, and totally shut down our use of fossil fuels next week, and one volcano in Java could errupt and spew out more pollution in a month than our whole country produces in a year.

Our weather is no more extreme now than it ever was.  We have had better crops the last 10 years than I have ever seen.  Everyone sets around watching their flatscreens and get 24 hours of weather reports with all the nut job weather people talking about "snowmageddon" and now naming the snow storms.  For 50 years I have had to go out in the weather every day, rain or shine and take care of livestock.  We have cycles.  It varies.   We have dry years, or maybe two, then it rains too much.  It happens.

Gene


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## GeneMO (Feb 19, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> well.... congradulations....



Thank you, thank you very much.


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## GeneMO (Feb 19, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> well.... congradulations....



Do you use a clothes line?


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## Jackie22 (Feb 19, 2015)

[h=1]World's biggest PR firm calls it quits with American oil lobby – reports[/h]World's biggest PR firm calls it quits with American oil lobby – reports 

Edelman public relations ends relationship with American Petroleum Institute despite contract that at times was worth more than 10% of firm’s global revenue 

Suzanne Goldenberg, US environment correspondent 
@suzyji 

Thursday 19 February 2015 15.24 EST 
Last modified on Thursday 19 February 2015 15.43 EST 

The world’s largest public relations firm is ending its lucrative relationship with America’s powerful oil lobby – after more than a decade and at least $327m in billings. 

Circumstances of the divorce between Edelman public relations and the American Petroleum Institute (API) were not immediately clear. 

snip// 

The oil lobby paid Edelman $327.4m for lobbying and public relations, according to an investigation by the Center for Public Integrity. Those earnings, which include money later spent by Edelman for advertising, cover only a five-year period from 2008-2012. 

snip// 

*Last year, Edelman was caught out when other major public relations firms announced they would no longer work for climate deniers, in response to a Guardian report. 

Edelman later scrambled to catch up with the new industry standard and declared it too would not represent climate deniers. 
*
The company also faced scrutiny for advising TransCanada pipeline company to run a “perpetual campaign” against opponents of a pipeline project across eastern Canada. TransCanada later announced it had dropped Edelman. 

more... 

http://www.theguardian.com/business...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


This will help.......more trouble for the oil industry.....


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## GeneMO (Feb 19, 2015)

You dont use oil products Jackie22?


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## rt3 (Feb 19, 2015)

Good luck Gandi, I mean GeneMo, convincing the British aren't the problem. Folks that live in cities rarely get to see clean air.


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## Don M. (Feb 19, 2015)

rt3 said:


> Good luck Gandi, I mean GeneMo, convincing the British aren't the problem. Folks that live in cities rarely get to see clean air.



When I see pictures of the air in China, I doubt that anything we might do here will have that much positive effect.  After living a few years in the country, I can even Smell the difference when we go to Kansas City to visit the kids...and KC is usually pretty much smog/pollutant free.  The IPCC meets every year to discuss how to reduce air pollution, etc., and about the Only thing they can agree on is where to hold next years lavish, taxpayer funded meeting.  Here, the EPA wants to shut down all the coal fired power plants...with little or nothing to replace them.  If the EPA gets its way, we will have periods of Brown Outs like some of the 3rd world nations.  

Trees have always served as natures "air filter", and the Amazon rain forest has always provided the Earth with a continuing means of removing excess CO2 from the planets atmosphere...but that forest is being ravaged to make room for sugar cane production to supply Brazil with Ethanol fuel for their cars.  The more people try to "use" this planets resources, the more they screw things up.


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## Jackie22 (Feb 19, 2015)

[h=2]Influence of the energy lobby in the United States[/h][h=2]In the 2006 election cycle, oil and gas companies contributed over $19 million to political campaigns. 82% of that money went toRepublican candidates, while the remaining 18% went to Democrats. In 2004, oil and gas companies contributed over $25 million to political campaigns, donating 80% of that money to Republicans. In the 2000 elections, over $34 million was contributed, with 78% of that money going to Republicans. Electric utilities also heavily favor Republicans; their contributions have recently ranged between $15–20 million.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] From 2003-2006, the energy lobby also contributed $58.3 million to state-level campaigns. By comparison, alternative energyinterests contributed around half a million dollars in the same time period.[SUP][5][/SUP] During the United States elections in 2012 which includes thepresidential election there was much spending by the lobbies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuels_lobby 



Do I use oil?
Sure I do, Gene, but I figure the less lobbying for oil and gas means less Republicans in Congress that are against any alternative energy progress or environmental legislation.

Did you vote for Republicans that are against alternative energy progress and environmental legislation, Gene?
[/h]


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## GeneMO (Feb 19, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> *Influence of the energy lobby in the United States*
> 
> *In the 2006 election cycle, oil and gas companies contributed over $19 million to political campaigns. 82% of that money went toRepublican candidates, while the remaining 18% went to Democrats. In 2004, oil and gas companies contributed over $25 million to political campaigns, donating 80% of that money to Republicans. In the 2000 elections, over $34 million was contributed, with 78% of that money going to Republicans. Electric utilities also heavily favor Republicans; their contributions have recently ranged between $15–20 million.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] From 2003-2006, the energy lobby also contributed $58.3 million to state-level campaigns. By comparison, alternative energyinterests contributed around half a million dollars in the same time period.[SUP][5][/SUP] During the United States elections in 2012 which includes thepresidential election there was much spending by the lobbies.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuels_lobby
> ...



Yes I do.   The free market should determin if green energy makes it.   I dont mind having incentives that helps with start up, research etc.   But eventually a system needs to earn it's own way.

I dont like my tax money being spent for windmills that chop up eagles.

I have a question.  Do you have a retirement fund?  401K?  Then you most likely "own" so called big oil.

Gene


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