# Is it time to renew the draft?



## Ralphy1 (Nov 16, 2015)

Sorry to say but I think so.  ISIS has said that we can't drone them out.  We need to deal with this as a real world war and take them out in the cities door-to-door, and this will probably take more than a volunteer army...


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

Hmmm. I guess I will be called up by the underground again. Lolololol.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 16, 2015)

For all of existence the elders have sent their young to war.

Maybe it's time for the youngsters to force their parents and grandparents to the front.


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

Philly I concur. I know Ralphy's tongue is welded to his cheek, but sometimes humour is hard to find.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 16, 2015)

We should have annexed Canada a long time ago...


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

Ralphy, at the rate Americans are flocking to Canada, you won't need to. Boom.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 16, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Philly I concur. I know Ralphy's tongue is welded to his cheek, but sometimes humour is hard to find.



I'm normally one who can find humor in an exploding bovine, but for some reason I'm cranky today.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 16, 2015)

Shali, they are rushing there fearing a draft...


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

That must be it Ralphy.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 16, 2015)

Yup, a bunch of candy-asses that you are welcome to...


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## QuickSilver (Nov 16, 2015)

I haven't heard any serious talk about reinstating the draft..  Have you sources in DC that are telling you that Ralphy?


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 16, 2015)

Yes, my sources are the same as Dr. Carson's...


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## QuickSilver (Nov 16, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Yes, my sources are the same as Dr. Carson's...



Oh... well that explains a lot of things...


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## tnthomas (Nov 16, 2015)

The draft wouldn't_ work_ with the current generation.   Better off with the current all volunteer military.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 16, 2015)

I have thought about running now that our Linc has dropped out, but could I get any Wall Street support if Hillary has it all wrapped up?


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

Ok Ralphy, we will take the candy asses, you may keep the cowboys....


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

If you want support Ralphy, you may have to ditch the Mrs. Doubtfire look. It just isn't presidential, although the rainbow wig plays well at Pride.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 16, 2015)

Quite right, my people are working on a new look for my run...


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## squatting dog (Nov 16, 2015)

You know, one of the dirty little secrets our government has held from us is that we no longer have a strong in numbers standing army. Any time you have multiple deployments of National Guard troops to a war zone, you have a problem, and a head in the sand approach will not work. The reality is, we have mired ourselves in countries where we have no business being. There is plenty of blame to go around with both parties here and none of that matters now. I've been listening to all the talking heads and political blowhards all over the networks and not one of them has a plan. It is truly frightening that the fate of our civilization lies in these peoples hands. We seem to have bred a culture of me first, gimme everything whether I earn it or not and and these young tater heads think that somehow being an ace in a video game will keep our country strong. I have always maintained that our country should have made military service mandatory for all males 18 and older. If for nothing else, to at least learn a little structure and maybe to respect what some have gone through to allow them to grow up in a somewhat free land. (ladies, you too would have the opportunity to join, but not mandatory).You know, the military isn't just shoot and blow things up. People there could also learn a trade, (think mechanic, logistics,computer,hell, cooking and even how to make a bed.) Then, when you're out, there is the GI education opportunity, VA housing loans. 
Lastly, if there ever was the need to protect our country from harm, would it really hurt to have a huge population ready and able to defend it?


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## BobF (Nov 16, 2015)

Right on.    A good mandatory draft would be a good help to the US future.   Learning discipline and respect is something we need in the US these days.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 16, 2015)

Yes, it is all good providing that you don't get killed...


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## QuickSilver (Nov 16, 2015)

I have mixed feeling about the draft.... right now we are relying of the poor and the lower middle class to fight our wars.  Perhaps we need to draft the kids of the wealthy..  Sadly... they will find ways to avoid serving.. like Mitt Romney.. Sitting out the Vietnam war in the South of France.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 16, 2015)

Most of the rich and powerful sit out the wars , and this, unfortunately, will go on...


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## QuickSilver (Nov 16, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Most of the rich and powerful sit out the wars , and this, unfortunately, will go on...



Again placing the burden on the poor and middle class..   I'm in favor of reinstating the draft provided the traditional Chicken Hawk deferments are done away with.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 16, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Again placing the burden on the poor and middle class..



But do the poor and middle class also see the military as a way out of their own social and economic predicaments? Isn't it one of the better choices they can make?


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## BobF (Nov 16, 2015)

Yes, many of the poor do join the military to learn of new ways to earn a living.    Some very good, and high tech training can be gotten from the military training schools.   One might be pilots for our freight and people airlines is one outgrowth.   

I also know of some well educated and trained college/university graduates do join the military and come out doing real good jobs in their personal wanted jobs.    So the military is not just the poor and middle class.    These are people with more gumption that far too many just do not have or want to have.    These are also places for the foreign born to join, serve an enlistment and then receive a US citizenship paper.   It is more than just a place for the poor to go for lack of better opportunity.   It becomes a better opportunity.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 16, 2015)

Interesting points, Bob - thank you!

An alternate POV - those college grads join because of the weak economy.

Probably a mix of the two reasons ...


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## AZ Jim (Nov 16, 2015)

I favor not "boots on the ground" or a draft.  I propose a large contingent of operatives trained in infiltration, and assassination.  Good intelligence and taking out these radicals one by one (unless we also use explosives).  *There is NO good way to do this kind of business.*


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## fureverywhere (Nov 16, 2015)

Number one I don't feel we should have US troops in all these other countries. Number two is my older son might be exempt having a family and being older. My other son is 21. I would personally move him to Canada rather than have him serve. Don't get me wrong, most of my family was in WWI or WWII, I admire people who are soldiers, but no I don't want my kid to die for his country.


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

Fur, should the need arise, you will have help.


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## BobF (Nov 16, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> Number one I don't feel we should have US troops in all these other countries. Number two is my older son might be exempt having a family and being older. My other son is 21. I would personally move him to Canada rather than have him serve. Don't get me wrong, most of my family was in WWI or WWII, I admire people who are soldiers, but no I don't want my kid to die for his country.



Fur, at 21 I think that should be his decision.


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Nov 16, 2015)

Selective Service... Drafting of citizens won't work in today's society.  We'd have "soldiers" marching in the streets protesting because someone makes them get out of bed at 5 a.m. or makes them do fitness exercises or makes them go on forced marches, etc.  We've raised a generation of those who don't believe they "have" to do anything and if made to do so... protest.  

As others have stated, a draft would not include those with money.  The Koch brothers grandkids would never serve.  Money would pad someone's pocket to make certain their lottery number never came up.  Senators... Representatives... No way would their kids and grandkids be drafted.  

OTOH, those that were drafted into the service and didn't want to be would not make good soldiers.  How would you like to go into a firefight knowing your fellow soldiers would rather surrender or run than to stand and fight?  

We have the technology that should never see thousands of foot soldiers involved in a war zone.  We need to target from the air with smart bombs and drones.  We need to use limited personnel, those actually on the ground being highly trained Special Ops units.  

If we continue to use traditional methods of fighting an enemy, we will continue to lose.  Had the U.S. employed the same "proven" military tactics as the British, we'd still be under Royal rule today.  Had we not dropped bombs on two Japanese metropolitan cities, WWII would have gone on a lot longer.  Two things would allow us to actually put an end to the ISIS and other Islamic terrorist activities.  One... Remove the restrictions of the Geneva Convention.  Two... Remove what is known as the U.S. Military Rules of Engagement.  If you need to take out entire communities who are harboring terrorists... do it.  If you need to behead a few Jihadists... do it.  If you need to give our Special Ops folks a couple canteens full of bacon juice that could be used to coerce info out of the radicals... do it.  It's sad to say, but until we become as savage as they and take them out... they win.

As far as PTSD, the two major causes of PTSD are 1.)  day after day going into fire fights almost certain you won't survive and 2.)  spending day after day watching your fellow soldiers blown to pieces in front of you and to see yourself blow someone's son or daughter to pieces.  The human mind simply isn't built for those experiences.  After previous conflicts, many of those suffering PTSD resorted to drugs and alcohol.  Today, we call it by 4 letters and attempt to treat it with counseling... or prescribed drugs.


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## chic (Nov 16, 2015)

Young men are always willing to go to war when their homeland is attacked by enemy forces such as in the U.S. on 9/11. 
So I guess the US will have to wait until ISIS destroys more innocents before we feel motivated to do anything. I'm sorry for those who will see their children, grandchildren and even great grandchildren slaughtered in such senseless and unecessary terrorist attacks. But when world leaders won't face the truth of the situation, their citizens will die. 
What would have happened if Roosevelt had had that attitude after Pearl Harbor??


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## fureverywhere (Nov 16, 2015)

Fur, at 21 I think that should be his decision.

And yes I know him...of course if he's stays in college I believe he would be safe. His brother wanted to be a career soldier. He turned eighteen two months before 9/11. I remember he had talked to recruiters and was ready to join after graduation. He came to me panicked that the recruiters were now all the more busy encouraging him to enlist. I told them in no uncertain terms he changed his mind. Before Sept 11th I could have seen him as a Navy Seal absolutely...disciplined, intelligent, intensely logical. He now has a family and works for an electrical contractor. Blessed he's still here with us.


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

A small point. Britain no longer rules anyone. The British Empire is a thing of the past. That is a historical fact.


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## Sassycakes (Nov 16, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> Number one I don't feel we should have US troops in all these other countries. Number two is my older son might be exempt having a family and being older. My other son is 21. I would personally move him to Canada rather than have him serve. Don't get me wrong, most of my family was in WWI or WWII, I admire people who are soldiers, but no I don't want my kid to die for his country.





I agree with you 100%. My husband was drafted right before our marriage during the Viet Nam war. They were very hard days. 
Thankfully my Son is too old to get drafted,but my Grandsons would be eligible. One is 19 and one 
is 18. I would do whatever I had to so, they would not get drafted.Let the Politicians send their 
children.


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## Runnoft (Nov 16, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> I have thought about running now that our Linc has dropped out, but could I get any Wall Street support if Hillary has it all wrapped up?



I don't even know you and yet imagine you are much less crooked than anyone currently running in either party.


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

Bernie is crooked????


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## chic (Nov 17, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> A small point. Britain no longer rules anyone. The British Empire is a thing of the past. That is a historical fact.



Whose picture is on Canadian currency? And Australian?


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## Shalimar (Nov 17, 2015)

. She is a constitutional monarch, unable to interfere in the affairs of the Commonwealth. We are not colonies. Presently, I am holding a five dollar bill. Instead of the Queen's picture, it features Sir Wilfrid Laurier, one of Canada's early Prime Ministers.


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