# Fine, Jail  And/Or Job Loss For Refusing Vaccine?



## OneEyedDiva (Aug 13, 2020)

Although states may have the authority to implement this, how many would really do it?  How many employers would lay off or fire employees for refusing the vaccine? Boy, if they think there's anarchy now...how much worse would this mandate cause it to get? I would not want to be forced to take the vaccine, especially if it contains pork products and just on GP. I'd like to know what you all think of this. 
https://www.pix11.com/news/national...-who-refuse-coronavirus-vaccine-attorney-says


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## StarSong (Aug 13, 2020)

Funny that this comes so soon after this thread: https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/worrying-do-you-worry.51616/ 

Without a specific vaccine and accomanying information about effectiveness rate, rollout timeline, side effects and other data, my greater concerns are what's right in front of us: schools reopening in much of the country and fresh virus hot spots in the US, Europe and other parts of the world, etc.


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## MarciKS (Aug 13, 2020)

*And they laughed at me when I asked that in my thread. And told me there was NO way they could do that. They can do whatever they want and get away with it. That's how it works in the world anymore. Whose gonna give a crap? We don't have the freedom or the rights that we think we do. *


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## CarolfromTX (Aug 13, 2020)

More alarmist stuff. My question is, why wouldn't you want a vaccine? Side effects?  Think of all the things posted on here about the long lasting effects of covid. Did you get the pneumonia vaccine? Do you get a flu shot? I'd like to get out of my house and on a plane and a cruise ship again. You don't wanna take the vaccine, fine by me. But I'll be first in line.


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## Sunny (Aug 13, 2020)

For once, I agree with you, Carol! I would welcome the vaccine with open arms.


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## MarciKS (Aug 13, 2020)

*Not me. I can't even take the flu vaccine. I'm not taking the chance. Especially if it has to be given every few months. The crap would probably kill me anyway.*


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## StarSong (Aug 13, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> More alarmist stuff. My question is, why wouldn't you want a vaccine? Side effects?  Think of all the things posted on here about the long lasting effects of covid. Did you get the pneumonia vaccine? Do you get a flu shot? I'd like to get out of my house and on a plane and a cruise ship again. You don't wanna take the vaccine, fine by me. But I'll be first in line.


Not sure I'd be FIRST in line, but if it's shown to be safe and effective, I'll for sure get one.  I believe in science and vaccines.


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## OneEyedDiva (Aug 13, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> More alarmist stuff. My question is, why wouldn't you want a vaccine? Side effects?  Think of all the things posted on here about the long lasting effects of covid. Did you get the pneumonia vaccine? Do you get a flu shot? I'd like to get out of my house and on a plane and a cruise ship again. You don't wanna take the vaccine, fine by me. But I'll be first in line.


My doctor did talk me into taking the pneumonia vaccine but I've never gotten the flu shot. Hearing my sister's experience with pneumonia twice swayed me to getting that vaccine. The year I thought seriously about taking the flu shot, I found out the efficacy was only 40%. I decided to just keep my immune system boosted. I posted other concerns about the vaccine in another COVID thread.


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## StarSong (Aug 13, 2020)

I've gotten flu shots for at least the past 5 years and will continue to do so.  40% effectiveness beats 0%, which is what I'd have without it.  

Having had the for-real actual flu a couple of times in my life, I'm crystal clear how incredibly sick it can make me, a very healthy person with zero underlying conditions. 

People often say they've got the flu when they're in fact dealing with head colds, chest colds or stomach bugs. 
A cold is to influenza what a hangnail is to a broken arm.


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## Sunny (Aug 13, 2020)

I also got talked into that new shingles vaccine by my doctor, even though I already had the previous shingles vaccine. It required two shots, a nuisance but I'm glad I had it. Shingles sounds horrible.


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## DaveA (Aug 13, 2020)

Anybody still thinking that skipping the diphtheria or polio shots is a good way to stand up for their "rights"?


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 13, 2020)

IMO the goal should be 100% and I will take the COVID19 vaccine voluntarily when it is available.

Like many things, I doubt that it will be a 100% legal mandate to be vaccinated but social pressure will come into play as schools, employers, the military, passport applications, etc... require proof of vaccination.


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## MarciKS (Aug 13, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO the goal should be 100% and I will take the COVID19 vaccine voluntarily when it is available.
> 
> Like many things, I doubt that it will be a 100% legal mandate to be vaccinated but social pressure will come into play as schools, employers, the military, passport applications, etc... require proof of vaccination.


So if employers require it what happens to those of us who can't take it? We end up unemployed & homeless?


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## gennie (Aug 13, 2020)

Although it might remind some of the Nazi/Jewish emblem/tattoo business AND be impossible to police, I've always thought that those who choose to not be vaccinated should wear an emblem of some sort to let others know that you or your child is not vaccinated so they can decide if they want to be around you. 

A tee shirt with an emblem would do the job.


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## Geezerette (Aug 13, 2020)

I think there needs to be more research done and publicized about just what are legitimate reasons for not taking an immunization, flu or any other kind. Here, people who have any patient contact in healthcare settings & refuse flu shots are required to wear masks all year round to keep their jobs and this has been the case for quite a few years.  I don’t plan to be the first in line to get the COVID vac but certainly will get it when it is declared to be safe & effective for the majority.


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## Keesha (Aug 13, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> My doctor did talk me into taking the pneumonia vaccine but I've never gotten the flu shot. Hearing my sister's experience with pneumonia twice swayed me to getting that vaccine. The year I thought seriously about taking the flu shot, I found out the efficacy was only 40%. I decided to just keep my immune system boosted. I posted other concerns about the vaccine in another COVID thread.


I feel the same way. I’ve never had a flu shot but I never get the flu. What surprised me most was that people who got the flu shot got incredibly sick and it still didn’t stop them from getting the flu so I decided to just boost my immune system instead. 
Im not sure how they will handle if here in Canada. 
Im not  anti vaccine. I just want to know more about it before I commit.


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## Myquest55 (Aug 13, 2020)

BUT the government reduced the effectiveness to only 50% (saw that in another discussion and it has been validated by others outside of this forum) -  I don't want it if it won't work!!


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## Furryanimal (Aug 13, 2020)

I will only take if a covid vaccine once i’m convinced it is 100 % safe.There are viruses that have been around much longer for which  they still don’t have one.So one that has been rushed through i would be suspicious of.And would it be a one off or annual event?
And i’ve had a communication from the BBC this afternoon asking what I’ve been asking-namely how do you vaccinate the entire planet?
I remain convinced we just have to learn to live  normally with this-otherwise we just exist.I have been existing for seven months and with no prospect of the things I enjoy coming back-at least with crowds-I will be just existing for many months to come.I need to live.I think everyone does.
But I am not convinced there will even be a vaccine.I am amazed at the assumption people have that there is bound to be one.


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## win231 (Aug 13, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> More alarmist stuff. My question is, why wouldn't you want a vaccine? Side effects?  Think of all the things posted on here about the long lasting effects of covid. Did you get the pneumonia vaccine? Do you get a flu shot? I'd like to get out of my house and on a plane and a cruise ship again. You don't wanna take the vaccine, fine by me. But I'll be first in line.


You have every right to make your health decisions.  Just as I have every right to make mine.
No, I've never had a flu shot, pneumonia shot, shingles shot or colonoscopy.  I don't intend to get one & no one can force me get get one.


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## win231 (Aug 13, 2020)

gennie said:


> Although it might remind some of the Nazi/Jewish emblem/tattoo business AND be impossible to police, I've always thought that those who choose to not be vaccinated should wear an emblem of some sort to let others know that you or your child is not vaccinated so they can decide if they want to be around you.
> 
> A tee shirt with an emblem would do the job.


You would have made a great SS guard.


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## macgeek (Aug 13, 2020)

I get a flu shot yearly and have for some time. never got the flu from the shot, or any other side effects. but flu shots have been around a long time. it would be years before I would trust a shot for the corona virus if ever at all.  I suspect most of the hype and fear the media is pushing on Covid19 will be over on November 4th.


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## gennie (Aug 13, 2020)

win231 said:


> You would have made a great SS guard.



Why?  I call it common sense and concern for my fellow citizens.  

Small children play up close and personal.  If a toddler goes to a play group or child care facility, their parents should know if there are un-vaccinated children there so they can make an informed decision about leaving their children there.


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## win231 (Aug 13, 2020)

DaveA said:


> Anybody still thinking that skipping the diphtheria or polio shots is a good way to stand up for their "rights"?


Just as with drugs, lumping all vaccines into the "Wonderful" category is faulty.  Some are useful.  Some are useless.  Some are dangerous.  Intelligent people make an informed decision.  And that decision is theirs, & theirs alone.


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## Sunny (Aug 13, 2020)

> I suspect most of the hype and fear the media is pushing on Covid19 will be over on November 4th.



MacGeek, fear of the disease will not be over on November 4, unless there is a miraculous vaccine between now and then. But plenty of other fears will be over!  (Enough said.)


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## Don M. (Aug 13, 2020)

There has been so much hype and fear over this virus, and its "Cure" is being so rushed, that I will probably remain a bit sceptical about any vaccines until several weeks have passed and large numbers have been vaccinated.  Given the past history of so many drugs, and all their Side Effects, we will be Very cautious about joining those who get vaccinated.  Wearing a mask, and avoiding others is a bit difficult, but I have little faith and trust in the Drug Companies.


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## win231 (Aug 13, 2020)

Don M. said:


> There has been so much hype and fear over this virus, and its "Cure" is being so rushed, that I will probably remain a bit sceptical about any vaccines until several weeks have passed and large numbers have been vaccinated.  Given the past history of so many drugs, and all their Side Effects, we will be Very cautious about joining those who get vaccinated.  Wearing a mask, and avoiding others is a bit difficult, but I have little faith and trust in the Drug Companies.


 That would make you one of those "Hoaxers," "Anti Vaxxers," or Someone who thinks for himself instead of being a programmed robot.


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## Keesha (Aug 13, 2020)

Don M. said:


> There has been so much hype and fear over this virus, and its "Cure" is being so rushed, that I will probably remain a bit sceptical about any vaccines until several weeks have passed and large numbers have been vaccinated.  Given the past history of so many drugs, and all their Side Effects, we will be Very cautious about joining those who get vaccinated.  Wearing a mask, and avoiding others is a bit difficult, but I have little faith and trust in the Drug Companies.


This is my stance on it precisely.


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## fmdog44 (Aug 13, 2020)

Why be skeptical in a country where J & J talcum powder causes cancer? Vaping increases the spread five fold? Now 16 feet is the safe distance not 6 feet? I wait for looters to storm the pharmacies to sell the needles on the streets. Everything is under control.


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## DaveA (Aug 13, 2020)

win231 said:


> Just as with drugs, lumping all vaccines into the "Wonderful" category is faulty.  Some are useful.  Some are useless.  Some are dangerous.  Intelligent people make an informed decision.  And that decision is theirs, & theirs alone.



Sounds like you might be discussing your country at war and whether you should answer the draft, volunteer, or refuse to enter military service.  To hell with the country, just what's best for you as an individual.

If that's your opinion sobeit but lucky most folks don't share that view.


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## win231 (Aug 13, 2020)

DaveA said:


> Sounds like you might be discussing your country at war and whether you should answer the draft, volunteer, or refuse to enter military service.  To hell with the country, just what's best for you as an individual.
> 
> If that's your opinion sobeit but lucky most folks don't share that view.


My health decisions have nothing whatsoever to do with the draft or military service.  That's your asinine interpretation.  They have to do with my right to my health decisions.
But hey....if you're comfortable being a robot, have at it.


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## Butterfly (Aug 22, 2020)

Back when I was a military wife, if your spouse was ordered to a place where you could go along (an accompanied tour), if spouse and children wanted to go along you had to be current on vaccinations.  There is one vaccine I have an extreme allergy to and I had to submit medical documentation of that in order to be able to travel without the vaccine.  Same for the civilian job I had   over there working for the Army -- no vaccines, no job.


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## peramangkelder (Aug 22, 2020)

The Aussie Prime Minister has stated the same thing....Covid 19 vaccines to be mandatory


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## oldman (Aug 22, 2020)

I would welcome the vaccine after it has been determined to be safe and effective.


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## StarSong (Aug 22, 2020)

oldman said:


> I would welcome the vaccine after it has been determined to be safe and effective.


Same here.


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## Sunny (Aug 22, 2020)

win231 said:


> My health decisions have nothing whatsoever to do with the draft or military service.  That's your asinine interpretation.  They have to do with my right to my health decisions.
> But hey....if you're comfortable being a robot, have at it.



Win, most of us are comfortable with being "robots." as you put it, when it comes to protecting our own health and the health of our loved ones and the people we come in contact with.  Living in the midst of a society means sometimes following the requirements of that society, even if we're not thrilled about it. The alternative is to find an isolated mountaintop somewhere and move there alone, where we won't contaminate the people who are unfortunate enough to come near us.


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## win231 (Aug 22, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Win, most of us are comfortable with being "robots." as you put it, when it comes to protecting our own health and the health of our loved ones and the people we come in contact with.  Living in the midst of a society means sometimes following the requirements of that society, even if we're not thrilled about it. The alternative is to find an isolated mountaintop somewhere and move there alone, where we won't contaminate the people who are unfortunate enough to come near us.


Then you should take whatever vaccine or drug that's suggested.


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## Sunny (Aug 22, 2020)

I expect to.


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## Aneeda72 (Aug 22, 2020)

gennie said:


> Although it might remind some of the Nazi/Jewish emblem/tattoo business AND be impossible to police, I've always thought that those who choose to not be vaccinated should wear an emblem of some sort to let others know that you or your child is not vaccinated so they can decide if they want to be around you.
> 
> A tee shirt with an emblem would do the job.


Oh, you mean like the armbands so people can be beaten and killed.  I think not.


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## Aneeda72 (Aug 22, 2020)

win231 said:


> You have every right to make your health decisions.  Just as I have every right to make mine.
> No, I've never had a flu shot, pneumonia shot, shingles shot or colonoscopy.  I don't intend to get one & no one can force me get get one.


You really should have a colonoscopy, you’ve never lived until you’ve had a large tube shoved up there


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## Aneeda72 (Aug 22, 2020)

win231 said:


> You would have made a great SS guard.


My thoughts as well.


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## Sunny (Aug 22, 2020)

"No! No! No! I don't want no vaccine!  You can't take away my right to make my own health decisions, no matter what the consequences!  You're a big, bad robot!"


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## win231 (Aug 22, 2020)

oldman said:


> I would welcome the vaccine after it has been determined to be safe and effective.


How would you know if the vaccine was safe or effective?  It would take years to determine that.  Most drugs have been on the market for many years before they admit anything negative about them.  Even after people get sick & die, it can be difficult to prove that the drug or vaccine was the cause.  Suppose they require it now?
Those who recommend it can't be expected to tell you the truth....at least not until they've made back their huge investment, along with substantial profit.


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## win231 (Aug 22, 2020)

Sunny said:


> I expect to.


Then you shouldn't be concerned with others who choose not to get vaccinated.  Your vaccine would protect you from them.
Unless, of course you lack confidence in your decision & need validation from others making the same decision you make.........


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## win231 (Aug 22, 2020)

gennie said:


> Although it might remind some of the Nazi/Jewish emblem/tattoo business AND be impossible to police, I've always thought that those who choose to not be vaccinated should wear an emblem of some sort to let others know that you or your child is not vaccinated so they can decide if they want to be around you.
> 
> A tee shirt with an emblem would do the job.


A wonderful idea.  But not so healthy for anyone who tries it on me, unless they have a bulletproof head.


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## win231 (Aug 22, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> You really should have a colonoscopy, you’ve never lived until you’ve had a large tube shoved up there


LOL.  Except for a medical necessity, all my entrances will stay entrances & all my exits will stay exits.


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## Sunny (Aug 22, 2020)

win231 said:


> Then you shouldn't be concerned with others who choose not to get vaccinated.  Your vaccine would protect you from them.
> Unless, of course you lack confidence in your decision & need validation from others making the same decision you make.........



By the time we have a vaccine, Win, I probably wouldn't be all that concerned about those who choose to make themselves and their families sick with that horrible disease. I'd feel sorry for them, but they probably wouldn't be affecting me.

In fact, it might be a kind of natural selection. Darwin would love it.


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## oldman (Aug 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> How would you know if the vaccine was safe or effective?  It would take years to determine that.  Most drugs have been on the market for many years before they admit anything negative about them.  Even after people get sick & die, it can be difficult to prove that the drug or vaccine was the cause.  Suppose they require it now?
> Those who recommend it can't be expected to tell you the truth....at least not until they've made back their huge investment, along with substantial profit.


I guess no one can be 100% certain, even after new vaccines have been given to thousands of others during testing, but I would be willing to take the risk. If a newly developed vaccine was given to thousands and no one died and the vaccine was proven to be successful through tracking, then I am willing to take the risk, rather than risk getting the disease.

This is from the CDC———-Vaccine Testing


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## Butterfly (Aug 25, 2020)

I remember when the Salk polio vaccine came out in the 50s, people lined up to get their children vaccinated.  My sister and I were among them.  One of my school friends had gotten polio (before the vaccine), and was left with limited use of her left  leg. Even as a little kid, I was glad to get the vaccine even tho I hated shots.   I remember waiting in line at the school where they were vaccinating, and I got a sticker saying I'd gotten the vaccine.  Then we did the thing again when the Sabin oral vaccine came out and we lined up again to get our sugar cube with the vaccine on it.


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## Oris Borloff (Aug 25, 2020)

I got the Sabin vaccine.  It was administered as a yellow liquid in a small paper cup.  I remember going up the street to the school on Sunday afternoons  with my Father.  The adults all thought it was so funny that I looked forward to the 2nd and 3rd doses, because I just loved the taste so much.


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## StarSong (Aug 25, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> I remember when the Salk polio vaccine came out in the 50s, people lined up to get their children vaccinated.  My sister and I were among them.  One of my school friends had gotten polio (before the vaccine), and was left with limited use of her left  leg. Even as a little kid, I was glad to get the vaccine even tho I hated shots.   I remember waiting in line at the school where they were vaccinating, and I got a sticker saying I'd gotten the vaccine.  Then we did the thing again when the Sabin oral vaccine came out and we lined up again to get our sugar cube with the vaccine on it.


Exactly the same for me.  My older sister was among the Salk vaccine test group (turned out she'd gotten a placebo).  We all got the shot, then when Sabin's came out we took three doses on sugar cubes.  Everyone in our small town lined up at the school when it was time to get the Sabin.  I don't recall if adults were also administered the vaccine.  

While I knew a number of people who'd had polio before the vaccines were available, I never, ever met anyone who contracted it after that big Sabin drive. 

I was too young to remember this, but I bet some folks on here recall it: 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/24/elvis-presley-polio-vaccine-world-immunisation-week


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## Pepper (Aug 25, 2020)

win231 said:


> That would make you one of those "Hoaxers," "Anti Vaxxers," or Someone who thinks for himself instead of being a programmed robot.


I'm using the word 'you' generally, not specifically.  When you say:  "Someone who thinks for himself instead of being a programmed robot." Well, seriously, what if you're stupid?


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## Ruthanne (Aug 25, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I feel the same way. I’ve never had a flu shot but I never get the flu. What surprised me most was that people who got the flu shot got incredibly sick and it still didn’t stop them from getting the flu so I decided to just boost my immune system instead.
> Im not sure how they will handle if here in Canada.
> Im not  anti vaccine. I just want to know more about it before I commit.


I got the flu shot and I did not get incredibly sick and I also never got the flu


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## Sunny (Aug 25, 2020)

Star, I remember the polio epidemic in the late 40's.  A girl in my class died of it. She had what her parents thought was a cold, and suddenly stopped breathing in her sleep. The disease could paralyze the muscles needed for breathing; that's probably what those iron lungs were for. 

A few years after that, the Salk vaccine came out. I don't recall anyone calling other people "robots" for getting it. It was regarded as a blessing, as was the Sabin vaccine a few years later.


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