# Dallas Protest and Police Shootings. 10 Police officers shot, 3 Killed



## WhatInThe (Jul 7, 2016)

The news involving police was bad enough over the last 24 hours but now non violent protests in Dallas were halted when apparently 2 shooters, snipers shot 10 police officers killing 3 of them. At least one of two or more shooters still on lose.

http://www.abc2news.com/news/world/shots-fired-at-dallas-protest-over-fatal-polioce-shootings

RIP those killed, condolences to family and speedy recovery to injured.

PEACE


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 7, 2016)

That's too bad, but it's not going to get better until they stop killing African American men for no valid reason, almost 140 just in this year of 2016.  Two new murders by trigger-happy cops in the last two days.  More here. 

 With the video coverage they have now, those cops aren't allowed to get away with the killings like they have in years past. Then there's cases where the cop 'forgot' to turn on their body camera, or claim it fell on the ground and didn't record.  Luckily witnesses are filming these murders.

People are angry and rightfully so.  It was heartbreaking to watch the news of the families who were weeping for the senseless murders of their loved ones by those in uniform who are supposed to "Protect and Serve". 

 My heart goes out to all the victims shot dead by police and their families.  May those victims rest in peace. 

 Yes, I and others have emphasized many times that the majority of cops are good ones, but the bad/racist ones need to be cracked down on and stopped.  This isn't a joke, and has been going on far too long.  The killer cops are making it unsafe for the rest of the police force by casting a shadow on all police.  Officers themselves have said this and want it to stop.

*Warning*:  video of shooting graphic



Spoiler


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## WhatInThe (Jul 7, 2016)

Now the news is saying 4 killed and 11 wounded. I think the perpetrators who did this were planning and/or looking for an excuse for a while. Also several police shot in the back. 

The stupid pos's ruined the progress and message of the protest. The marches and protests were peaceful. Survivors/family in Minnesota even asked for peaceful protests. And they made progress in that released the names of the officers involved in both Louisiana and Minnesota. The DOJ is also involved.

Although there is a racial component to many police shootings I see too many paranoid, resentful, bitter and attitude filled cops. Their job is to serve the public, to protect the public but instead they worry more about protecting their own butts. If they are that scared to do a job they get for they get paid for they should quit and find another job. Being a cop isn't for clock punchers. There's something in the training. As soon as it becomes known there is a gun or weapon it becomes open season on a civilian, not even a suspect per say. The Louisiana incident started out as a call for a man brandishing a gun so right off the bat those cops were hyper vigilante, doesn't justify shooting a guy on the ground-A teen shot in ground in Fresno recently as well. But incidents like this(killing police) will not help already poor attitudes.

One of the things not being emphasized in this mass shooting of police in Dallas is that it is supposedly near a federal building. Again I think the perps/murderers were planning something like this for a while.

Sad irony is that Charles Whitman, mass murderer had his own sniper attack in Texas about 50 years ago. 

PEACE


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## Buckeye (Jul 7, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> That's too bad, but it's not going to get better until they stop killing African American men for no valid reason, almost 140 just in this year of 2016.  Two new murders by trigger-happy cops in the last two days.  More here.
> 
> With the video coverage they have now, those cops aren't allowed to get away with the killings like they have in years past. Then there's cases where the cop 'forgot' to turn on their body camera, or claim it fell on the ground and didn't record.  Luckily witnesses are filming these murders.
> 
> ...



I gather that you are saying that the murder of these 4 Dallas LEOs is justified because of the events elsewhere.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 8, 2016)

A recent update included 2 suspects picked up in a Mercedes, a woman and at least one remaining suspect in a garage. Police Chief press conference said the suspects weren't talking or too cooperative. The commentating experts also feel the degree of planning says it was not necessarily about the incidents/protests but used as a tool.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 8, 2016)

Updated to 5 police dead.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2016)

I just saw the police shooting that man for the first time.  I couldn't believe my eyes.  Did the cop actually have the man pinned down and shoot him?  The camera went off right after the cop had his gun drawn.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 8, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> I just saw the police shooting that man for the first time.  I couldn't believe my eyes.  Did the cop actually have the man pinned down and shoot him?  The camera went off right after the cop had his gun drawn.



Sadly, I'm not surprised to see videos like that any more. It seems to be a common thing.  136? this year so far.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2016)

I just looked on Facebook for the video and saw the original unedited version with the blood and the gore and the guy laying there dying.  OMG I feel sick.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 8, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> I just looked on Facebook for the video and saw the original unedited version with the blood and the gore and the guy laying there dying.  OMG



I've seen far too many videos of black men being shot by police.  

I just read an article about a black men hanging from a tree in Atlanta.  http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/police-body-found-in-piedmont-park-a-suicide-victi/nrtJq/


WTF??


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 8, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> I just looked on Facebook for the video and saw the original unedited version with the blood and the gore and the guy laying there dying.  OMG I feel sick.



I live close to Memphis TN and I try to avoid it now. Little Rock isn't much better . As for Dallas I used to go there often in my work. Its a zoo just like almost every other big city is these days.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 8, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> I live close to Memphis TN and I try to avoid it now. Little Rock isn't much better . As for Dallas I used to go there often in my work. Its a zoo just like almost every other big city is these days.



I lived in Knoxville during the 90's.  My nephew works in Dallas and I just heard there was advice for those who work there not to go in today.  Fear of rioting?


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## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> I've seen far too many videos of black men being shot by police.
> 
> I just read an article about a black men hanging from a tree in Atlanta.  http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/police-body-found-in-piedmont-park-a-suicide-victi/nrtJq/
> 
> ...


There are no words.


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 8, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> I lived in Knoxville during the 90's.  My nephew works in Dallas and I just heard there was advice for those who work there not to go in today.  Fear of rioting?


Its possible. I wouldn't go in if I lived there. As for the hangings there were two. One in Missisippi and the other in Atlanta . both were alleged to be suicides. But who knows. By the time the source spins it , the media spins it etc you really never know. Two suicides sound better than Atlanta going up in flames , again.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 8, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> Its possible. I wouldn't go in if I lived there. As for the hangings there were two. One in Missisippi and the other in Atlanta . both were alleged to be suicides. But who knows. By the time the source spins it , the media spins it etc you really never know. Two suicides sound better than Atlanta going up in flames , again.



You never know what to believe.  The chances of two hangings at the same time being suicide?  Doubt it.  

My nephew's family just moved to the outskirts of Dallas early this year.  Hope he stays home.  

Black men are 21 times more likely to get shot by police than white men.  As long as white cops don't get prosecuted for wrongfully killing black men, I'm afraid what happened in Dallas will escalate.


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## Shalimar (Jul 8, 2016)

Has the violence against black men by police always been prevalent, or is it escalating as it seems to be?


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## Ameriscot (Jul 8, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Has the violence against black men by police always been prevalent, or is it escalating as it seems to be?



It seems to be escalating, as is racism in general.  I think Trump is partially to blame for giving people permission to voice their hate and racism and to no longer be 'politically correct'.  The racism and bigotry which was simmering below the surface in many people is now being acted on, not just verbally expressed.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> It seems to be escalating, as is racism in general.  I think Trump is partially to blame for giving people permission to voice their hate and racism and to no longer be 'politically correct'.  The racism and bigotry which was simmering below the surface in many people is now being acted on, not just verbally expressed.


I think it depends on a lot of factors.  Where I live we all get along.  There are people of all nationalities of the human race.  There have always been racists and will probably always be some.  There has been progress made between races, too, let's not forget that.  I think a lot of people are too smart to act like Trump.  Yes, some will undoubtedly.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 8, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> I think it depends on a lot of factors.  Where I live we all get along.  There are people of all nationalities of the human race.  There have always been racists and will probably always be some.  There has been progress made between races, too, let's not forget that.  I think a lot of people are too smart to act like Trump.  Yes, some will undoubtedly.



In general things seem to be going backwards.  It seems to me that it's a fear by whites that they will become the minority.  And it seems that Trump's motto is actually 'Make America White Again'. 

I heard a comment while on my recent visit to Michigan that someone preferred to be among people just like them - white.  I'll never understand how people don't find it boring to have everyone around them 'just like them'.  

Due to Brexit we in the UK are seeing a problem with verbal and physical abuse against immigrants, whether legal or not.


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## Shalimar (Jul 8, 2016)

So sad.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> In general things seem to be going backwards.  It seems to me that it's a fear by whites that they will become the minority.  And it seems that Trump's motto is actually 'Make America White Again'.
> 
> I heard a comment while on my recent visit to Michigan that someone preferred to be among people just like them - white.  I'll never understand how people don't find it boring to have everyone around them 'just like them'.
> 
> Due to Brexit we in the UK are seeing a problem with verbal and physical abuse against immigrants, whether legal or not.


I guess I see things differently than you.  There are many who prefer to be with their own race not just white people.  I always see Chinese people in groups with other Chinese people for example.  There are tons of interracial couples now.  I was was married to a black man many years ago.  I see a lot of mingling between races, too.


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## Ralphy1 (Jul 8, 2016)

Assault rifles must be banned!


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## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2016)

This is a real tragedy.  The Dallas police didn't do anything to these people who killed them.


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## Debby (Jul 8, 2016)

Hoot N Annie said:


> I gather that you are saying that the murder of these 4 Dallas LEOs is justified because of the events elsewhere.




I don't think that is what SeaBreeze was saying at all.  I think she meant there is a small element within the police force (throughout the country) that are paranoid and violent and the black community is paying the price and it's unlikely to end if those policemen aren't outed and removed from the forces.  Maybe 'to be expected' that someone will snap and go 'vigilantey' and seek retribution.  No one is saying it is right or just.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2016)

Debby said:


> I don't think that is what SeaBreeze was saying at all.  I think she meant there is a small element within the police force (throughout the country) that are paranoid and violent and the black community is paying the price and it's unlikely to end if those policemen aren't outed and removed from the forces.  Maybe 'to be expected' that someone will snap and go 'vigilantey' and seek retribution.  No one is saying it is right or just.


It was a planned sniper attack by several people who knew what they were doing or were trained.  They haven't told us yet who the people are just that it was a sophisticated attack.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 8, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> I guess I see things differently than you.  There are many who prefer to be with their own race not just white people.  I always see Chinese people in groups with other Chinese people for example.  There are tons of interracial couples now.  I was was married to a black man many years ago.  I see a lot of mingling between races, too.



No, I know that you are right.  There are people other that whites who like to live amongst 'their own'.  And, yes, mixed marriages and much more common than in the 'old days'.  I haven't lived in the US for 16 years and probably don't get enough of an idea of how things are now on short annual visits.  There is racism in the UK but from my perspective it is much less.  I read somewhere (might have been here) that someone was complaining that there are so many different races and ethnicities in London.  That is a reason to LOVE London, not complain.  It's like a mini-world with people from every country.  

BTW, I had a boyfriend in the 80's for several years that was Black.  My sons loved him, but my family who taught me as a child that all people are equal, did not want to meet him.  Hypocrites.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 8, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> It was a planned sniper attack by several people who knew what they were doing or were trained.  They haven't told us yet who the people are just that it was a sophisticated attack.



I've been hearing this on the news.  Have had CNN on in the background all morning.  Too professional to be revenge killings.  Something sounds fishy.


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## Bobw235 (Jul 8, 2016)

Just awoke to this horrible news and as is so often the case, there are no simple answers.  It seems clear at this point that this attack was a well-planned and coordinated event.  I feel so sad for all involved in this terrible tragedy.  Hope that law enforcement is able to catch all who were involved and give us answers as to their motivation for such a crime.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 8, 2016)

Bobw235 said:


> Just awoke to this horrible news and as is so often the case, there are no simple answers.  It seems clear at this point that this attack was a well-planned and coordinated event.  I feel so sad for all involved in this terrible tragedy.  Hope that law enforcement is able to catch all who were involved and give us answers as to their motivation for such a crime.



What a waste!  The cops that died were heros who were trying to protect the public from the snipers. One of the murdered cops was a transit cop who had just gotten married two weeks ago.


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## Jackie22 (Jul 8, 2016)

I stayed up late watching this heartbreaking event unfold last night.....I feel very very sad, sad for all that have been hurt, sad for our country that hate and fear have taken such a hold on so many.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 8, 2016)

Hoot N Annie said:


> I gather that you are saying that the murder of these 4 Dallas LEOs is justified because of the events elsewhere.



No, I'm not saying the murders are justified at all, either of the police officers or the African American citizens that are being killed without just cause in increasing numbers.  I'm saying that what leads to this must be stopped in order for the violence to cease.  My sympathy goes out to all the innocent victims who've had their lives taken and their families.

The small percent of cops who are abusing their authority and power are making life unsafe for both our citizens and the police force.

I give Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton a lot of credit for his honesty in calling it what it is, and his sincerity to want to find a real resolution.  We need more good men like him to speak out and help make some real change in law enforcement.







*Warning:* graphic video



Spoiler











Another one of many...


Spoiler















Debby said:


> I don't think that is what SeaBreeze was saying at all.  I think she meant there is a small element within the police force (throughout the country) that are paranoid and violent and the black community is paying the price and it's unlikely to end if those policemen aren't outed and removed from the forces.  Maybe 'to be expected' that someone will snap and go 'vigilantey' and seek retribution.  No one is saying it is right or just.



Exactly Debby.


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## Bobw235 (Jul 8, 2016)

Often when I read an article, I'll also look at the comments posted by fellow readers.  In today's NY Times article about the shooting, a reader left this comment.  It apparently resonated with a lot of others.  I thought I'd pass it along, because it has a lot to say about our society, our political system and our gun culture.  It was one of several NY Times Picks.

"America is becoming Afghanistan.

People are armed to the teeth with high power military style weapons.
Anyone can buy guns just about anywhere.
No restrictions on ammunition purchases.
Armor piercing ammo is readily available.
Many states now have both open carry and conceal carry and many of those do not require a permit or any training.
Law enforcement is terrified of the pubic.
The public is terrified of law enforcement.
The government through police brutality openly oppresses certain minorities.
Politicians have lost respect for law enforcement when they don't get a politically desired conviction.
We have state sanctioned dungeons called prisons that are busting at the seams from overcrowding.
We do nothing to counter massive inequality and hopelessness which breeds contempt and lack of respect for government.
We are on the verge of electing a demagogue for president who knows nothing but talks tough and rails against everything.
His opponent ignores legal requirements of office for convenience.
Congress is completely dysfunctional, accomplishes nothing and thinks its job is to gum up the works so no problems can be addressed. This is done in opposition to the duly elected leader whom whey have no respect for.
Mass shootings have become commonplace.


About the only hurdle left are roadside IEDs and suicide car bombs.


All because of politics, fanatic ideology, corruption in the form of campaign financing and lobbyists, and a misinterpreted 2nd amendment."


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## tnthomas (Jul 8, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> Although there is a racial component to many police shootings I see too many paranoid, resentful, bitter and attitude filled cops. Their job is to serve the public, to protect the public but instead *they worry more about protecting their own butts*. If they are that scared to do a job they get for they get paid for they should quit and find another job. Being a cop isn't for clock punchers. There's something in the training. As soon as it becomes known there is a gun or weapon it becomes open season on a civilian, not even a suspect per say. The Louisiana incident started out as a call for a man brandishing a gun so right off the bat those cops were hyper vigilante, doesn't justify shooting a guy on the ground-A teen shot in ground in Fresno recently as well. But incidents like this(killing police) will not help already poor attitudes.



It's perplexing & sad, I have to wonder about the police officer standards and training, in place in the jurisdictions involved; perhaps the U.S. Department of Justice needs to step-up the pressure on local agencies for higher training standards, and maybe also provide more funds to raise situational awareness for the officer on patrol.





Ruthanne said:


> This is a real tragedy. The Dallas police didn't do anything to these people who killed them.






Ameriscot said:


> What a waste! The cops that died were heros who were trying to protect the public from the snipers. One of the murdered cops was a transit cop who had just gotten married two weeks ago.




I strenuously object to the view that police(who happen to be white) are killing blacks as a racial hate motivated act.   The culprit I see is ignorance and fear, ignorance of black people, ignorance of black culture and their perception of society at large.  

Fear of the unknown is a strong force, blurs rational thinking, instead of properly assessing the threat level, fear inserts the 'nightmare' scenario images in the brain.

I see the Philando Castile fatal shooting video that his girlfriend took on her phone- utterly horrendous. so tragic.     The officer failed miserably to "protect and serve the public"; I'm quite sure that his career is over.        I can't help but think that part of the failure of the officer has to do with a failure of proper training, for today's society.


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## Shalimar (Jul 8, 2016)

Wow. I am impressed. Scathing analysis.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 8, 2016)

*Killer/shooter identified*

The suspect who is believed to be at least one of the shooters/sniper has been identified. Micah Xavier Johnson 25. He told police he was upset at recent police shootings and wanted to kill white people and police officers. He denied involvement with a group. He was killed after a standoff with police. One source said he was an Army reservist as a carpenter and mason.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dallas-shooting-suspect-kill-whites/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/suspect-dallas-ambush-shooting-idd-army-reservist/story?id=40422456


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## Ed Mashburn (Jul 8, 2016)

Good evening to all- I have read the accounts in Dallas since I got back home yesterday. A very, very bad situation.
Please permit a few observations:
1. Being a good police officer is the second hardest job I know. We put these men and women in impossible situations, and if there is any weakness or problem in the individual, it will come out- and someone will die.
2. Guns, guns, guns.  there are too many damned guns in America, and they are absolutely too easy for anyone to obtain- quickly and legally.Once again I damn the NRA to hell for its unthinking, "you can't take my guns away" mentality and political demands.

Friends, we can do better than this. We must do better than this.  

good evening to all- Ed


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## WhatInThe (Jul 8, 2016)

Bomb making materials among other things were found in the home of the suspect who kept on saying he had bombs/ieds all over the place. So far none found. Also the police who are "leaking" it was probably a single shooter have yet to release three suspects they arrested last night. Some reports have him involved with some social groups including more militant ones such as the New Black Panthers. 

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/dallas-shooting-police-micah-xavier-johnson/2016/07/08/id/737759/


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## Fern (Jul 8, 2016)

> All because of politics, fanatic ideology, corruption in the form of  campaign financing and lobbyists, and a misinterpreted 2nd amendment."


So true.


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## fureverywhere (Jul 8, 2016)

Sigh, I'm not reading any more on this particular thread. I just saw this headline a few minutes ago. All you can do is shake your head and think " I wonder how many they got this time?". Hearing the argument that if more people had more guns then they could defend everyone against all the other people with guns. There are actually people who believe that with all their heart. Go figya, I suppose if the police had assault rifles on a daily basis besides their service revolvers there would be less cops getting murdered every day. I don't know...the US is supposed to be so far ahead of other countries yet we allow for regular mass shootings.


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## Debby (Jul 8, 2016)

Ed Mashburn said:


> Good evening to all- I have read the accounts in Dallas since I got back home yesterday. A very, very bad situation.
> Please permit a few observations:
> 1. Being a good police officer is the second hardest job I know. We put these men and women in impossible situations, and if there is any weakness or problem in the individual, it will come out- and someone will die.
> 2. Guns, guns, guns.  there are too many damned guns in America, and they are absolutely too easy for anyone to obtain- quickly and legally.Once again I damn the NRA to hell for its unthinking, "you can't take my guns away" mentality and political demands.
> ...




You brought up the NRA Ed and like someone pointed out on a news broadcast, why isn't the NRA all over Mr. Castile's death and screaming about his right to carry a gun and how he should be safely permitted to carry it?  The speaker said if Mr. Castile had been white, they'd have something to say, but so far I haven't heard that they've made a statement.  Another display of racism?  

And Bob235, your comment was sad but so appropriate!  Tragic in ever sense.


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## Warrigal (Jul 8, 2016)

> the US is supposed to be so far ahead of other countries



Where did you get that idea? And which countries?


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## Cookie (Jul 8, 2016)

This is very very tragic, sad for all the families involved and truly horrible, but I am only surprised that it hasn't happened sooner. In fact, I don't feel very optimistic about it at all and expect things might get even worse before they get better.


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## Cookie (Jul 8, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Where did you get that idea? And which countries?



I was thinking the same thing. US far ahead? in what way?


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## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2016)

Cookie said:


> I was thinking the same thing. US far ahead? in what way?


Maybe in things such as some medical things, technology sort of things, space program.


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## Cookie (Jul 8, 2016)

Maybe space program only, other countries may be more advanced in medicine and technology IMO.  Then of course, there's the question of the moon landing, did it really happen, or was it staged, hmmmmm.  Makes you wonder.  Of course America thinks highly of itself, but could it be wishful thinking? Such a huge country will have many big problems too, it stands to reason.


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## Bobw235 (Jul 8, 2016)

Debby said:


> You brought up the NRA Ed and like someone pointed out on a news broadcast, why isn't the NRA all over Mr. Castile's death and screaming about his right to carry a gun and how he should be safely permitted to carry it?  The speaker said if Mr. Castile had been white, they'd have something to say, but so far I haven't heard that they've made a statement.  Another display of racism?
> 
> And Bob235, your comment was sad but so appropriate!  Tragic in ever sense.



Debby, I thought it was sad as well, but it is an all too accurate assessment of the current state of our country.  I said to my wife earlier, we just seem to be moving from one tragedy to another.  It's painful to put on the news.  Weren't we just talking about Orlando a few short weeks ago?  It's all so sad......again.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2016)

People come to Cleveland Clinic for cardiac care, hepatic care and they come from all over the world as they are rated as the world's best.  Yes, the moon landing really happened!!  We are right up there with all the best in medical advances and technology.   We are proud of our achievements and so are other countries proud of theirs.  What's wrong with that?  It's evident you don't think much of my country in the way you are criticizing it.  But that is okay, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.  I live here and love my country.  I see all the good in it, too.  Maybe you just see all the bad news that happens here and that colors your opinion of the USA.


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## Shalimar (Jul 8, 2016)

To an outsider, it seems as if America has been high jacked. So very sad for the millions of good people just trying to live their lives as well as they are able.


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 8, 2016)

Ed Mashburn said:


> Good evening to all- I have read the accounts in Dallas since I got back home yesterday. A very, very bad situation.
> Please permit a few observations:
> 1. Being a good police officer is the second hardest job I know. We put these men and women in impossible situations, and if there is any weakness or problem in the individual, it will come out- and someone will die.
> 2. Guns, guns, guns.  there are too many damned guns in America, and they are absolutely too easy for anyone to obtain- quickly and legally.Once again I damn the NRA to hell for its unthinking, "you can't take my guns away" mentality and political demands.
> ...



With all due respect I'm not interested in having my constitutional right to have firearms taken away because of the actions of someone else. A fair analogy would be to take away your sports car because I drove one just like it 140 MPH and crashed. Its not the gun I'm defending. Its my constitutional rights . Thankfully and thanks to my rights if one of those crazies busts my door down at least I can drop him as opposed to being killed


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## Shalimar (Jul 8, 2016)

Eek!


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 8, 2016)

tnthomas said:


> I can't help but think that part of the failure of the officer has to do with a failure of proper training, for today's society.



The officers who killed one of the victims recently only had 4 years on the force.  I had heard a long time ago that the police training academy techniques had changed from years ago.  Now they train these new officers in more of a military style way, and instill in them an "us against them" mentality.

  They go onto the streets now with the preconception that everyone is guilty and out to get them.  They use their uniform and badge to act as judge, jury and executioner.  

This is supposed to be America, I don't know what happened to innocent until proven guilty.  Also, the deceptive lying that goes on within the force to protect one another is not a secret, and it certainly does not give the average citizen any feelings of trust or security.  https://www.seniorforums.com/showth...-Solutions?highlight=police+training+military




> .He says that most of the murders are by young cops who just got out of the police academy. Scott says there needs to be changes in the way they are trained there. What used to be instruction to serve and protect, has now become it's you against them, everyone is out to get you. Very similar to militarytraining at wartime.
> 
> These rookies hit the streets in a very different state of mind than the older officers in the force. They don't hesitate to shoot, because they are guaranteed that being judged by a jury of 12 who are going to find them innocent, is better than being carried in a casket by a team of 6.
> 
> Jurors have admitted that they knew all along that the witnesses and questions involved in cases were hand-picked, but with following the instructions they were given, they had no choice but to find the officer involved innocent


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 8, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Eek!


I wish someone would've deprived me the right to drink this can of Coca Cola so early ! It is my last one and I'll have to make a quick run to the store if I want one later! Shalimar, I suppose I could make tea , lol...


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## Cookie (Jul 8, 2016)

Right Shalimar, to us non-Americans, it seems like these problems are so incredibly huge and serious, maybe worse in some places than others, and very disturbing, especially when people are trying to live in peace.  

Ruthanne, please forgive me, I'm only wanting to point out that other countries also excel in many areas.  We're not in a competition. Canada has wonderful cardiac facilities and medical facilities and doctors and healthcare, but we're not that big on the space program or wars.  Yes, America is great. Keep on believing that. 

I only mentioned the thing about the moon landing because I saw a very interesting documentary which brought up a lot of questions, in fact, it is very possible that it was done to let the Russians believe it was happening, note that the U.S. never went back there.  I recommend you watch this documentary.  It will open your eyes.


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 8, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> The officers who killed one of the victims recently only had 4 years on the force.  I had heard a long time ago that the police training academy techniques had changed from years ago.  Now they train these new officers in more of aex military style way, and instill in them an "us against them" mentality.
> 
> They go onto the streets now with the preconception that everyone is guilty and out to get them.  They use their uniform and badge to act as judge, jury and executioner.
> 
> This is supposed to be America, I don't know what happened to innocent until proven guilty.  Also, the deceptive lying that goes on within the force to protect one another is not a secret, and it certainly does not give the average citizen any feelings of trust or security.  https://www.seniorforums.com/showth...-Solutions?highlight=police+training+military



Exactly . There are some in this country that actually believe that once you walk out your front door you have "rights ". .


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## Shalimar (Jul 8, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> I wish someone would've deprived me the right to drink this can of Coca Cola so early ! It is my last one and I'll have to make a quick run to the store if I want one later! Shalimar, I suppose I could make tea , lol...


Herb tea it is.......zzzzzzzzzz


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 8, 2016)

Cookie said:


> Right Shalimar, to us non-Americans, it seems like these problems are so incredibly huge and serious, maybe worse in some places than others, and very disturbing, especially when people are trying to live in peace.
> 
> Ruthanne, please forgive me, I'm only wanting to point out that other countries also excel in many areas.  We're not in a competition. Canada has wonderful cardiac facilities and medical facilities and doctors and healthcare, but we're not that big on the space program or wars.  Yes, America is great. Keep on believing that.
> 
> I only mentioned the thing about the moon landing because I saw a very interesting documentary which brought up a lot of questions, in fact, it is very possible that it was done to let the Russians believe it was happening, note that the U.S. never went back there.  I recommend you watch this documentary.  It will open your eyes.


:hatlaugh1:  what moon landing ?? (j,k)


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 8, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Herb tea it is.......zzzzzzzzzz



That sounds very good for later!!! Yum ...


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## Shalimar (Jul 8, 2016)

As far as I can determine, this thread speaks to the tragedies affecting the lives of good people, not a my country is better than yours mindset. America is a great nation, and it's people deserve to live their lives in an atmosphere which promotes wellbeing, tolerance and safety, rather than violence/paranoia/rage etc. But in order for that to happen, changes must be made.


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## Buckeye (Jul 8, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> {snip} This is supposed to be America, I don't know what happened to innocent until proven guilty.  {snip}



Does this presumption of innocence extend to the officers involved in the two recent shooting that triggered all the mayhem?  You know, the whole "hands up don't shoot" meme turned out to be a lie, and Darrin Clark was not charged.


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## Cookie (Jul 8, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> :hatlaugh1:  what moon landing ?? (j,k)




Erk!

Oh, you know, do you remember that fuzzy black and white movie from 1969, starring guys in puffy suits riding in a cart, with no stars or planet earth in sight.


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 8, 2016)

Cookie said:


> Erk!
> 
> Oh, you know, do you remember that fuzzy black and white movie from 1969, starring guys in puffy suits riding in a cart, with no stars or planet earth in sight.


Why yes, yes I do ! I was a 10 year old kid at the time . I went outside and looked at the moon . I didn't see nuffin' ....nuffin' I say. Now I know how that slow kid at school felt in first grade. He was crying at the bake sale so I went to him to help . he said "all the cookies are 10 cents and I only have a quarter"


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 8, 2016)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Does this presumption of innocence extend to the officers involved in the two recent shooting that triggered all the mayhem?  You know, the whole "hands up don't shoot" meme turned out to be a lie, and Darrin Clark was not charged.



Duly note when the police shoot someone resisting arrest there is an immediate news conference about "brutality". When the same type of character shoots the police Obama says " It would be improper to comment without all the facts "


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## Cookie (Jul 8, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> Why yes, yes I do ! I was a 10 year old kid at the time . I went outside and looked at the moon . I didn't see nuffin' ....nuffin' I say. Now I know how that slow kid at school felt in first grade. He was crying at the bake sale so I went to him to help . he said "all the cookies are 10 cents and I only have a quarter"



Sad, sad, so very sad.  No matter, time heals all.  


We've had a few horrendous incidents here, one of police killing a person on a streetcar, firing 8 times more after the person was already dead on the floor. The police are either terrified or out of their minds, or are they trained to do it that way, who knows?


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## Ruthanne (Jul 8, 2016)

I was asked how my country was advanced and I answered and then I get the reply that America thinks highly of itself. I perceived that to be a slight but did not say anything except people who see all the bad stuff on tv about America might think that's all we are about but there is much more to us than that.  Our country has just had a very traumatic event and we all are reeling.  I am not coming back to this thread, it's too painful.


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## tnthomas (Jul 8, 2016)

Cookie said:


> Sad, sad, so very sad.  No matter, time heals all.
> 
> 
> We've had a few horrendous incidents here, one of police killing a person on a streetcar, firing 8 times more after the person was already dead on the floor. The police are either terrified or out of their minds, or are they trained to do it that way, who knows?



Generally, if a soldier or police officer or anyone really, makes the decision to draw a weapon, point it at a person and pull the trigger, the purpose would be to kill.


Firing 8 times more after the person was already dead on the floor....that sounds a bit over the top.


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## Cookie (Jul 8, 2016)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/james-forcillo-verdict-1.3414974

It was very upsetting for the whole city of Toronto, as the victim was just a young kid who had mental issues.  The cop was convicted of attempted murder, article above FYI, for firing the 5 rounds after the first 3.


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## Cookie (Jul 8, 2016)

I tend to suspect that police are being 'allowed' to be brutal and murderous, by the system, but somehow, can't think exactly why, perhaps there is a power deal of some kind, some kind of 'protection' for their own.  Has it turned into a police state, here in Canada as well as down south.


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## Shalimar (Jul 8, 2016)

I agree Cookie. I think the same thing applies to the culture of impunity that has trashed the once stellar RCMP.


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## Cookie (Jul 8, 2016)

Yes, Shalimar, the reports of police brutality here in Canada are frightening.


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## Debby (Jul 8, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> To an outsider, it seems as if America has been high jacked. So very sad for the millions of good people just trying to live their lives as well as they are able.




Exactly!


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## Debby (Jul 8, 2016)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Does this presumption of innocence extend to the officers involved in the two recent shooting that triggered all the mayhem?  You know, the whole "hands up don't shoot" meme turned out to be a lie, and Darrin Clark was not charged.




Yes, it would extend to them too, but then there has to be seen to be justice at the other end and there has to be changes in the training and attitude of the cops, that are transparent and out in the open and I don't think the people feel like they're seeing that at all.  I think they're feeling like the cops get away with it every time and because of that, those cops aren't changing and improving and it's just becoming a way of 'life'.  

I can't imagine what it would be like to be black in America and having to tell my sons like I heard one mother saying, "I tell my boys, if a police officer stops you, drop to the ground on your face and don't move".  Oh my gosh that would be a nightmare!  As a mom, I only worried about strangers stopping and grabbing my kids, but black parents...like April who comes here....well I'm sure that 'fear' also wears the colour blue! in households like hers,  if you know what I mean.  Even your Mayor of New York City got into trouble because he and his wife advised something similar to their sons.


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## Debby (Jul 8, 2016)

Cookie said:


> Sad, sad, so very sad.  No matter, time heals all.
> 
> 
> We've had a few horrendous incidents here, one of police killing a person on a streetcar, firing 8 times more after the person was already dead on the floor. The police are either terrified or out of their minds, or are they trained to do it that way, who knows?



In that case, Officer Forcillo was found guilty of attempted murder of Sammy Yatim and his sentencing is coming at the end of July.  We at least got to see an officer who is being punished for his over reaction or murderous attitude or whatever you want to call it.  I think to a degree that's what American's want to see, a little justice going the other way.   I'm not saying that the decisions that have been made in the cases that have happened and been investigated were wrong or right or anything because I didn't get to hear the cases at all.  Just that I think the people feel like the wagons get circled and the cops come out the other end, a little bruised and beat up from their experience but they're still walking the street and have their jobs and meanwhile another dead citizen.  Just my opinion and I might be entirely wrong but that's the sense I get from reading the news stories, videos and reading comments.

Shalimar, maybe that stellar reputation that the RCMP had wasn't deserved ever but the kinds of abuses that we're now hearing about were just never talked about and now the women affected are just fed up and feeling more supported by society so that they feel like they can stand up against it.


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## fureverywhere (Jul 8, 2016)

I am red haired and blue eyed. I told my sons from the beginning. If you are pulled over and you have any African American friends with you, you will now become the driver. Hands where they can be seen. Anything you have to do including a frisk or car search. Hey you keep talking nice to the officers. Your Dad works at a uh hem food joint where they treat police people really nicely. Mention their name and you will be let go with a warning. Why do we live in a world like this? It's 2016 not 1966.


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## Shalimar (Jul 8, 2016)

Debby, I suspect you are right. There are still class action suits before the courts. Amongst the crap were the recent comments, very disparaging in tone, on social media no less, by a female superior officer of RCMP against a former "poster 

girl" spokeswoman for the BC branch, who has  finally been financially compensated for the systematic long term  abuse which she endured while a member of the force. Appalling. So far, I have treated three female former RCMP, all suffering from severe PTSD, not 

from doing their job, but from the stressors of working among an elitist, misogynistic segment of their peers, who instead of viewing them as colleagues, preferred to see them as pieces of meat. They ground these women's spirits into hamburger.


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## fureverywhere (Jul 9, 2016)

Anyone who thinks we've expanded past 1966 is wrong. Police officers are still executed in their cars. Young black men are murdered for no reason at all. And the right wing is paranoid about them women wearing head wraps...A world gone mad...


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 9, 2016)

The  media has done a masterful job of creating the  illusion that our world has gone mad. Its a manner of supporting citizens losing their weapons leaving only big govt and authority figures with weapons. The media has fooled the masses. These are the facts.http://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/


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## Bobw235 (Jul 9, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> The  media has done a masterful job of creating the  illusion that our world has gone mad. Its a manner of supporting citizens losing their weapons leaving only big govt and authority figures with weapons. The media has fooled the masses. These are the facts.http://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/



Are we really going to turn this thread into yet another "they're taking our guns away" conversation.  Jesus Christ!  It's *another *mass shooting by some lunatic with a grudge.  He had what is being described as a semi-automatic weapon that he used to mow down five police officers in cold blood and wound many more.  What you link doesn't show is how many *mass shootings *there have been by folks in this country in the past few years.  Hell, just in the past year.  So yeah, the media is all over that.  That's their job.  It's our job as citizens to demand action when we've seen enough mass killings by high powered, semi-automatic weapons that many would argue are really weapons of war.  I am so done with this discussion.


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## mitchezz (Jul 9, 2016)

Bob, you should realise by now everything is about people exercising their right to have some sort of firearm. Owning guns gives a false sense of security....they may have a gun or a rifle but that's no match for someone who walks into the movies or the coffee shop or mall with some sort of rapid fire weapon. Hell.......just give everyone hand grenades and be done with it.


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 9, 2016)

Bobw235 said:


> Are we really going to turn this thread into yet another "they're taking our guns away" conversation.  Jesus Christ!  It's *another *mass shoioting byu some lunatic with a grudge.  He had what is being described as a semi-automatic weapon that he used to mow down five police officers in cold blood and wound many more.  What you link doesn't show is how many *mass shootings *there have been by folks in this country in the past few years.  Hell, just in the past year.  So yeah, the media is all over that.  That's their job.  It's our job as citizens to demand action when we've seen enough mass killings by high powered, semi-automatic weapons that many would argue are really weapons of war.  I am so done with this discussion.



Translated : " the chart linked by Southern Gent was rooted in reality and statistically accurate. Therefore it didn't support the hysteria based agenda of the current administration . Only a huge Nanny govt and other authority figures should be allowed to have weapons giving them the ability to defend themselves even though I can't. I'm taking my toys and going home, meanie".  


Well dang, lol.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 9, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> Translated : " the chart linked by Southern Gent was rooted in reality and statistically accurate. Therefore it didn't support the hysteria based agenda of the current administration . Only a huge Nanny govt and other authority figures should be allowed to have weapons giving them the ability to defend themselves even though I can't. I'm taking my toys and going home, meanie".
> 
> 
> Well dang, lol.



In Scotland people are only allowed hunting rifles.  The cops don't have guns except for special weapons squads.  Number of people killed by guns?  Take a guess.


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 9, 2016)

Every time something like the above described happens it begs the same old question. Question being "what's next for Rocky and Bullwinkle "...? opcorn:


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 9, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> In Scotland people are only allowed hunting rifles.  The cops don't have guns except for special weapons squads.  Number of people killed by guns?  Take a guess.



I'd prefer you just tell me. My mind was wandering off to that pesky old US Constitution and those nice men that died for democracy.


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## Shalimar (Jul 9, 2016)

Here in Canuckistan, we manage very well without handguns, and we loooove our nanny gov't, gives us socialised medicine.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 9, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> I'd prefer you just tell me. My mind was wandering off to that pesky old US Constitution and those nice men that died for democracy.



2012/13 - 5 killed by gun.

The gun/anti-gun arguments have been done to death on this forum and on others.  I see no point in banging my head against a wall when neither side will change the others minds.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 9, 2016)

However, you might enjoy this video which points out the difference in weapons between when the second amendment was written, and now.


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 9, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> 2012/13 - 5 killed by gun.


After a quick study of their demographics and the fact Scotland  has 1/60th the population of the US it's easy to see why. Nice place to live. Too bad our country is being turned into a murderous trash dump by minorities. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. I know facts and stats upset people so I'll refrain. I did some quick calc. Based on the current US stats if we had the same population and makeup as Scotland we'd only have had 80 murders. And that's WITH the right to bear Arms. I'm glad you showed up with the Scotland thing. It allowed me to make a valid point that should only upset those that still believe in the tooth fairy. Thank you.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 9, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> After a quick study of their demographics and the fact Scotland  has 1/60th the population of the US it's easy to see why. Nice place tointpc live. Too bad our country is being turned into a murderous trash dump by minorities. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.



Aye, and 60 x 5 = 300.  The US has about 10,000 deaths by gun a year.  

So you blame minorities.  I can see I'm talking to a Trump fan.  

The end.


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 9, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> Aye, and 60 x 5 = 300.  The US has about 10,000 deaths by gun a year.
> 
> So you blame minorities.  I can see I'm talking to a Trump fan.
> 
> The end.


why wouldn't I blame minorities ? 13% of the  pop commits 55% of the murders. Only 5000 of the murders by whites . 5000 ÷ 60 = 80. "AYE"  . lol. You should know not to pick a fight with me. You're seriously overmatched . sorry facts bother you.


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## Shalimar (Jul 9, 2016)

Can we not debate without things turning personal?? This issue is divisive enough. Eek!


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## Ameriscot (Jul 9, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Here in Canuckistan, we manage very well without handguns, and we loooove our nanny gov't, gives us socialised medicine.



Ditto here.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 9, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Can we not debate without things turning personal?? This issue is divisive enough. Eek!



True.  

And I refuse to do this --------------->>>>   


End of my participation in this discussion.


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## Warrigal (Jul 9, 2016)

I don't blame minorities unless you count men as minorities. 
Most, indeed almost all, of the shooters are men.
It isn't the gun that kills, it is the angry man brandishing it.


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## Shalimar (Jul 9, 2016)

Yes Warri, I concur. Clearly men should be forbidden to own guns. Only women should be armed.


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 9, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Can we not debate without things turning personal?? This isue is divisive enough. Eek!


 I'll certainly work on it. I have a bad habit of defending myself and my beliefs when someone initiates an attack on me. Especially an attack laced with falsehoods , bias and other assorted nonsense.


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 9, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Yes Warri, I concur. Clearly men should be forbidden to own guns. Only women should be armed.


 Lol. ..


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## Southern Gentleman (Jul 9, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> True.
> 
> And I refuse to do this --------------->>>>   View attachment 30544
> 
> ...


 I apologize for making you look foolish. In my defense , you started it. . nanna nanna boo booo!


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## Warrigal (Jul 9, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Yes Warri, I concur. Clearly men should be forbidden to own guns. Only women should be armed.



My point exactly, Shali.
If men were to be disarmed, we women could go back to hatpins for self defence.


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## QuickSilver (Jul 9, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Can we not debate without things turning personal?? This issue is divisive enough. Eek!



I agree... How about we debate without turning it racist also.  We have Black members on this forum.


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## mitchezz (Jul 9, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> I'll certainly work on it. I have a bad habit of defending myself and my beliefs when someone initiates an attack on me. Especially an attack laced with falsehoods , bias and other assorted nonsense.



You need to chill out.......pat your cat........do you play any instruments?


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## Warrigal (Jul 9, 2016)

Getting back to the general thrust of this thread - Philando Castile, the man shot dead in his car in front of his girlfriend and her 5 yr old daughter, 





> had been pulled over 52 times  in recent years in and around the Twin  Cities and given citations for minor offenses including speeding,  driving without a muffler and not wearing a seat belt.
> 
> He was assessed at least $6,588 in fines and fees, although more  than half of the total 86 violations were dismissed, court  records show.   Was Castile an especially bad driver or just unlucky? Or was he  targeted by officers who single out black motorists like him for  such stops, as several of his family members have alleged?



Was this racial profiling? Over policing of people of colour?

Read here and judge for yourselves.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-stopped-52-times-by-police-was-it-racial-profiling-2016-7?IR=T


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## Don M. (Jul 9, 2016)

One of the biggest dangers to society when these types of events occur, is the "stereotyping" of All police officers by some.  Police departments all over the country are having a harder time retaining, and finding, new officers of quality to staff their needs.  Existing police are taking retirement as soon as possible, and standards are probably being "lowered" to replace them.  As these trends continue, such incidents are only bound to increase.  I certainly don't pretend to have the answers, but I think we will be seeing more and more of these police/citizen conflicts in the future....and an increase in riots, etc., that will only Harden attitudes.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 9, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Getting back to the general thrust of this thread - Philando Castile, the man shot dead in his car in front of his girlfriend and her 5 yr old daughter,
> 
> Was this racial profiling? Over policing of people of colour?
> 
> ...




If one waits for more information and context over time on a lot of these incidents they are not as clear cut as first portrayed. Nor are the victims the saints nor devils. Doesn't always justify the use or escalation to lethal force either. If the officers in Minnesota were familiar with him I doubt the stop would've escalated to lethal force. I think the shooting took place before they ran his license so his record wouldn't have been in play yet. A broken tail light, an obvious physical defect with the vehicle is a legitimate offense and reason to stop. It is frustrating that the public accepts and assumes the initial reporting and commentary as correct or complete.

I wish the Dallas murderer has taken the time to the examine the record or follow the news of the Dallas Police Department which fares better than many when it comes to community relations and lethal force. Or take into consideration the police chief is black and an inspiration going through more direct tragedy than the killer. If there is a bias it works two ways including a bias against police and authority.


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## Buckeye (Jul 9, 2016)

Aloha!  Is it just me or did a number of posts (some by me, some by others) just go "poof" in the middle of the night (for me - I'm in Hawaii)?  Maybe I'm mistaken.  Oldtimers, and all that.

later the same morning....  Ooops - found the missing posts.  they were on another forum.  My bad..

Mahalo


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## WhatInThe (Jul 9, 2016)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Aloha!  Is it just me or did a number of posts (some by me, some by others) just go "poof" in the middle of the night (for me - I'm in Hawaii)?  Maybe I'm mistaken.  Oldtimers, and all that.



I don't know about poof but the thread about the mass murder of police in Dallas has deviated a bit focusing solely on 'a' contributing cause and/or on personal exchanges.


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## Debby (Jul 9, 2016)

Southern Gentleman said:


> I'll certainly work on it. I have a bad habit of defending myself and my beliefs when someone initiates an attack on me. Especially an attack laced with falsehoods , bias and other assorted nonsense.




No one attacked you.  Disagreed yes, but no attacks.


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## Debby (Jul 9, 2016)

Sorry, double post.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 9, 2016)

*Robot Bomb Used To Kill Sniper*

Although precise details not available Dallas police attached explosives to a robot arm and used them to kill the murdering sniper. Apparently he was at a tactical advantage that would injure police capturing him. The sniper had exchanged gun fire with police for several hours in the parking garage of his last stand. Some questions are being raised about it's use and how will robots and same technique be used in the future.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...thics-debated-after-dallas-shooting/86867580/


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