# Do you really care?



## Davey Jones (Jul 12, 2014)

That these idiotic countries are STILL throwing rockets at each other on a daily basis,they kill the target (1)person and  count on  another 10-20 innocents for good measure.
I really don't care and hope they both wipe each other out then Jordan and/or Egypt can have all that land and put it to better good use.

 It's the holy month of Ramadan   *ROFL*


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## Justme (Jul 12, 2014)

What a wonderful attitude you have, NOT!


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## Davey Jones (Jul 12, 2014)

Justme said:


> What a wonderful attitude you have, NOT!




Look at it this way...how long have these two been fighting each other ?


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## WhatInThe (Jul 12, 2014)

Sometimes you have to look at countries and peoples fighting each other like a bunch of 2 bit junkies fighting over the last crack rock. Anything else should be considered enabling or interfering with their business. They say you area  supposed to let a junky hit bottom so that's what you have to do with these war mongering states and peoples. The problem is on the stage of world politics too many others are willing to step in which stops them from tiring out or hitting bottom. And like the junky they have to actually want peace and not an agreement to please someone else.


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## Ina (Jul 12, 2014)

Well said WhatinThe. :clap::thankyou:


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## Fern (Jul 12, 2014)

Palestine has often said they don't want peace, strange then that they cry over spilt milk. Who killed the 3 Israeli teenagers, there's been more publicity over 1 Palestinian boy being killed than the 3 teens. The media are sooo biased. 



> The problem is on the stage of world politics too many others are  willing to step in which stops them from tiring out or hitting bottom.  And like the junky they have to actually want peace and not an agreement  to please someone else.


So true


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## Davey Jones (Jul 12, 2014)

One thing is for sure the media is having a field day with this conflict.
They seem to love shoving a microphone on a grieving,yelling,screaming Mother who just lost 2 of her kids from these rocket then have the nerve to ask " what will you do now?"


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 12, 2014)

I've heard about the other side of the conflict, something we don't see on the local TV news.  Here's an article with another perspective, and a video.  I have not watched this video yet, but I will when I have time.

http://electronicintifada.net/conte...raeli-palestinian-conflict-coverage-task/5037


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## kcvet (Jul 12, 2014)

as long as Hezbollah and Hamas are there no peace. ever


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## MrJim (Jul 12, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Look at it this way...how long have these two been fighting each other ?



Ever since the first guy who picked up a rock & figured out that he could throw it at somebody.


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## MrJim (Jul 12, 2014)

kcvet said:


> as long as Hezbollah and Hamas are there no peace. ever



And the Israelis keep on building settlements on occupied Palestinian land.... :whome:


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## kcvet (Jul 12, 2014)

MrJim said:


> And the Israelis keep on building settlements on occupied Palestinian land.... :whome:



so you support islamic terrorists???


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## MrJim (Jul 12, 2014)

kcvet said:


> so you support islamic terrorists???



Rather than answer that question, I'm going to let you sit & ponder how stupid it was.

Go ahead... ponder.


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## kcvet (Jul 12, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Rather than answer that question, I'm going to let you sit & ponder how stupid it was.
> 
> Go ahead... ponder.



nice deflection


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## MrJim (Jul 12, 2014)

kcvet said:


> nice deflection



No deflection. Not only was the question undeserving of an answer, but is was also obviously nothing more than a thinly veiled insult & character attack, in that by asking it,  you implied that I support Islamic terrorists, just because I presented the other side of the story re: the ongoing conflict between the Arabs & Israelis.

On a similar note, I assume you're an avid gun rights supporter.

Every year in this country, hundreds, if not thousands of innocent children are killed with guns.

So does that mean you support children getting killed?????


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## Warrigal (Jul 12, 2014)

Settle, gentlemen. We are now resorting to ad hominem attacks.

One factor we aren't thinking about is that Israel has nuclear weapons and possibly so does Syria and Iran. We don't want the whole area to escalate to a nuclear war to solve things. Now is the time for peacekeepers to do their work. Let's hope they will be effective this time. Both Israel and the Palestinians need to give some ground if a two state solution is to be the answer. I fear anything else will fail to work but if there is another option, let's hope they find it.


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## Vivjen (Jul 13, 2014)

It is not that I don't care.....I just despair...


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)

MrJim said:


> No deflection. Not only was the question undeserving of an answer, but is was also obviously nothing more than a thinly veiled insult & character attack, in that by asking it,  you implied that I support Islamic terrorists, just because I presented the other side of the story re: the ongoing conflict between the Arabs & Israelis.
> 
> On a similar note, I assume you're an avid gun rights supporter.
> 
> ...



just wordering which side of the fence your on. or riding it. those two countries can get along fine and resolve their differences. but one of em has a loaded and cocked gun at the back of their head. and the killers call the shots here. always have always will. they only understand violence. to me muslims are animals

you know as well as me kids are killed 100's of other ways besides guns. its not the gun that kills but the cold heart behind it. and no form of gun control will ever work

an avid gun rights supporter??






you god damned right I am


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

kcvet said:


> just wordering which side of the fence your on. or riding it. those two countries can get along fine and resolve their differences. but one of em has a loaded and cocked gun at the back of their head. and the killers call the shots here. always have always will. they only understand violence. to me muslims are animals
> 
> you know as well as me kids are killed 100's of other ways besides guns. its not the gun that kills but the cold heart behind it. and no form of gun control will ever work
> 
> ...



Apparently what you fail to grasp here, is that there are 1.3 BILLION Muslims all over the Earth. Only a small minority of them are violent extremists & most of the violent extremists live in one region... the ME. 

Muslims also happen to live mostly in poor countries where there are often little or no educational opportunities. Poverty breeds ignorance which breeds resentment & violence, which breeds more ignorance & so on & so on. It becomes a vicious circle that is very difficult to break.

To see all members of a religion as animals based on the actions of a few bad apples, puts one on a level similar to those one hates.

When you stop & take a good look at it, it is always the most uneducated, ignorant members of any group of people (religious, political, etc.) who are filled with resentment, loathing & contempt for members of some other group of people.

Think about it.

As for the comment I made about children & gun rights advocates, I was merely attempting to illustrate the fallacy of your position on Muslims by doing the same thing you are doing, but substituting Muslims with gun advocates.

The logic works both ways.


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Apparently what you fail to grasp here, is that there are 1.3 BILLION Muslims all over the Earth. Only a small minority of them are violent extremists & most of the violent extremists live in one region... the ME.
> 
> Muslims also happen to live mostly in poor countries where there are often little or no educational opportunities. Poverty breeds ignorance which breeds resentment & violence, which breeds more ignorance & so on & so on. It becomes a vicious circle that is very difficult to break.
> 
> ...


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)




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## Vivjen (Jul 13, 2014)

I can not believe that somebody can write Muslims are animals.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 13, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Ever since the first guy who picked up a rock & figured out that he could throw it at somebody.



Wasnt it some kid,David?, that threw a rock at some hulk.?


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## Davey Jones (Jul 13, 2014)

re:Now is the time for peacekeepers to do their work.

You have any idea how many peacekeepers were sent to the region to make peace over the years?
Its not going to happen unless one of those 2 countries cease to exist.
Its like a next door neighbor that you hated  all these year and you solve the problem by simply moving away.


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

kcvet said:


>



That woman made some excellent points, all of which I agree with.

But how does it justify you calling Muslims animals?

Extremist Muslim terrorists? Calling those a-holes animals is an insult to animals who are so much more worthy of life on this planet.

But to not make the distinction between the extremist dirt bags & the ones who live their lives in peaceful coexistence with everyone else makes one appear to be somewhat narrow in their views.


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)

look up the phrase "honor killing" then get back to me.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 13, 2014)

re:On a similar note, I assume you're an avid gun rights supporter.


AWWW jeez..JIM,lets stick with the topic and save that gun rights for another gun topic,otherwise we'll be here all day  once that group gets whiff of  the word "guns."


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

kcvet said:


>



Yes, it certainly appears that the KKK & the Aryan Brotherhood have slick video propaganda production capabilities, but it is still nothing more than hyperbole & alarmist propaganda nonetheless.

Regarding the above video, below is the review from Snopes.com who rated the video as MOSTLY FALSE:



> *Origins:*   The notion that "Christendom" (primarily western Europe, but also North America) is in danger of being overwhelmed within a few generations by Muslim immigrants with comparatively high birth rates (while the natives of the countries they are emigrating to are reproducing at or below mere replacement level) has been a common topic of western press articles in the last several years. However, such articles (and examples like the video linked above) often suffer from flaws that tip them more towards being alarmist rather than accurate and sober analyses: They cherry pick and exaggerate a few gloomy-sounding statistics without presenting them within a larger context, they assume that current demographic trends will remain static even in the face of future political, economic or social changes, and they don't acknowledge that fertility rates are influenced by a number of complex, interrelated, and volatile factors.
> 
> For starters, *much of the information presented in the video is incorrect, unsubstantiated, or misrepresented:*




http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/demographics.asp


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## Vivjen (Jul 13, 2014)

I presume from your statements kcvet, that you have never been treated by a Muslim doctor or dentist.
or that no Muslims were killed on 9/11.

Islamic extremists are not classified as Muslims by the majority of Muslims.


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> re:On a similar note, I assume you're an avid gun rights supporter.
> 
> 
> AWWW jeez..JIM,lets stick with the topic and save that gun rights for another gun topic,otherwise we'll be here all day  once that group gets whiff of  the word "guns."



I did that to illustrate the logical flaw in his thinking.

If it's OK for one person to call all members of one religious faith "animals" based on the actions of a small minority of them, then it's OK for another person to use the same logic against any other group, including gun advocates.

IOW, what's good for the goose is good for the gander as the old saying goes.

I was just making that point.


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

kcvet said:


> look up the phrase "honor killing" then get back to me.



Heard all about it.

More exaggeration as to the prevalence of it.


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Heard all about it.
> 
> More exaggeration as to the prevalence of it.



prove it


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Wasnt it some kid,David?, that threw a rock at some hulk.?



Probably pre-dates that even.

Probably goes back to the days of neanderthal man & they just never were able to stop fighting with each other.

But then again, given that the temperature over there gets up to 120° in the daytime in that part of the world & they're surrounded by nothing but dirt & sand, it's hard to blame them for being irate & pissed off all the time.

I probably would be too!!!!


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## Davey Jones (Jul 13, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> I can not believe that somebody can write Muslims are animals.



Sad to say but there are also a lot of crazy Americans animals living next door to us.


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## Sunny (Jul 13, 2014)

There's a lot of truth in many of the opinions that have been expressed in this thread, also a lot of misunderstanding.

Referring to the Israelis and Palestinians as "idiotic countries" shows the ignorance of the writer. The Palestinians are not a country, really; they are the non-Jewish (mostly Muslim) residents of Israel. (A mostly meaningless "State of Palestine" has been created, but it is an idea more than a land.) Most of them are as peace-loving as anyone else. The violence is coming from Hamas, a terrorist group. Calling Hamas a "country" would be like referring to the Mafia as a country. They want violence and killing, that's apparently all they know how to do. They will sacrifice any number of their own people to express their hate of Israel. And yes, this stuff goes back for centuries.

The Israelis are a civilized, modern nation, mostly secular, who are trying to live in the midst of escalating hatred and violence against them. Netanyahu and his followers are pretty right wing, and no doubt have inflamed some of the hatred against Israel, although from what I've seen over the years, Hamas and their ilk don't need much of an excuse. Like many American liberals, I think those settlements are a bad idea. But an Israeli friend of mine points out that Israel made a mistake turning Gaza over, as Hamas is using that place to build tunnels and military installations from which to lob rockets into civilian centers of Israel.

I don't even know what they are fighting over. Israel is a tiny country, about the size of NJ. And it's probably the only place in the middle east that has no oil! I think the fighting is motivated by religious fanaticism, pure and simple.

Making concessions doesn't seem to get any peace for Israel; it just encourages the terrorists, who apparently perceive it as a sign of weakness. Sadly, I don't think there is any solution to this problem, short of WW3.


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## Falcon (Jul 13, 2014)

Good explanation there Sunny.  Thanks for putting everything straight.

Saves a lot of argumentation.


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

kcvet said:


> prove it



No problem.



> To help my own understanding I like to check footnotes and crunch numbers. You've all heard it right? It's all over the blogosphere. It's in all the Rifqa Bary articles. Atlas Shrugs knows it. Jihad Watch knows it. The United Nations Population Fund estimates that 5,000 Muslim women are victims of honor killings annually. Wow! That's a major problem.
> 
> Let's start with the footnote.
> 
> ...




http://www.examiner.com/article/honor-killings-lies-damn-lies-and-statistics


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)

Sunny said:


> There's a lot of truth in many of the opinions that have been expressed in this thread, also a lot of misunderstanding.
> 
> Referring to the Israelis and Palestinians as "idiotic countries" shows the ignorance of the writer. The Palestinians are not a country, really; they are the non-Jewish (mostly Muslim) residents of Israel. (A mostly meaningless "State of Palestine" has been created, but it is an idea more than a land.) Most of them are as peace-loving as anyone else. The violence is coming from Hamas, a terrorist group. Calling Hamas a "country" would be like referring to the Mafia as a country. They want violence and killing, that's apparently all they know how to do. They will sacrifice any number of their own people to express their hate of Israel. And yes, this stuff goes back for centuries.
> 
> ...



majority of Muslims hate the Jews because the holocaust gets more worldwide attention than they. pure jealousy. add to it in WW2 Hitler enlisted muslims to hunt down the jews


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

Sunny said:


> There's a lot of truth in many of the opinions that have been expressed in this thread, also a lot of misunderstanding.
> 
> Referring to the Israelis and Palestinians as "idiotic countries" shows the ignorance of the writer. The Palestinians are not a country, really; they are the non-Jewish (mostly Muslim) residents of Israel. (A mostly meaningless "State of Palestine" has been created, but it is an idea more than a land.) Most of them are as peace-loving as anyone else. The violence is coming from Hamas, a terrorist group. Calling Hamas a "country" would be like referring to the Mafia as a country. They want violence and killing, that's apparently all they know how to do. They will sacrifice any number of their own people to express their hate of Israel. And yes, this stuff goes back for centuries.
> 
> ...



Many good points.

Re: the part in bold, supposedly what they are fighting over is the land that used be Palestine, but in 1948, was annexed by the UN &  became the country of Israel.

The Arabs feel that it was stolen from them & demand it back.

It is a situation that is so tangled up, complex & convoluted that many ME scholars don't fully understand it.


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

kcvet said:


> majority of Muslims hate the Jews because the holocaust gets more worldwide attention than they. pure jealousy. add to it in WW2 Hitler enlisted muslims to hunt down the jews



Prove it.


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)

MrJim said:


> No problem.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/article/honor-killings-lies-damn-lies-and-statistics



that's a horrible copy and paste. add to it your links don't work. 404 errors, page cannot be display. and it has NOTHING to do with muslim honor killings what so ever. wanna try again ???



> Indian prostitutes. Many women and girls are lured into prostitution by traffickers who target the poor and vulnerable.



say what huh???


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

kcvet said:


> that's a horrible copy and paste. add to it your links don't work. 404 errors, page cannot be displayand. it has NOTHING to do with muslim honor killings what so ever. wanna try again ???



Horse crap. Try reading it again.  The article accurately & factually addressed the issue. You can feel free to accept it or not, makes no difference to me.

I don't know why the link doesn't work, but if you do a Google search of the following - _*lies damn lies & statistics sf examiner article *- _ the article I posted will be the first result.



> say what huh???



I don't know where you got that bit about prostitution, but it wasn't in anything I posted.


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Prove it.



no problem






BTY MR Mufti here was the uncle of Yarsser arafat. another jew killer


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Horse crap. Try reading it again. The article accurately & factually addressed the issue. You can feel free to accept it or not, makes no difference to me.
> 
> I don't know why the link doesn't work, but if you do a Google search of the following - _*lies damn lies & statistics sf examiner article *- _ the article I posted will be the first result.
> 
> ...



yes it was. your post 37. Ending Violence against Women and Girls


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## Davey Jones (Jul 13, 2014)

Sunny said:


> I don't even know what they are fighting over.



Grab a face cover and a few rocks and ill show what they are fighting over. Last I heared they were killing each other over 3 dead teenagers and you say  "The Israelis are a civilized  nation"   I dont think so.

We probably have 3 dead teenagers killed every day in car crashes,so do start throwing stones at General Motors because its their fault?

I dont think so.


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

kcvet said:


> no problem
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, that was a waste of five or six minutes being told what I already knew.

But where in that video was there one word of proof of your statement... "_majority of Muslims hate the Jews because the holocaust gets more worldwide attention than they. pure jealousy."?

Didn't hear one word.


_


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

kcvet said:


> yes it was. your post 37. Ending Violence against Women and Girls



OK fine, so I didn't check out every link in the article.

But as far as the statement you quoted from it about Indian prostitutes, are you saying it's not true?

Or do you have some other issue with it?


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)

MrJim said:


> OK fine, so I didn't check out every link in the article.
> 
> But as far as the statement you quoted from it about Indian prostitutes, are you saying it's not true?
> 
> Or do you have some other issue with it?



it was in your link. you tell me


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## MrJim (Jul 13, 2014)

kcvet said:


> it was in your link. you tell me



Given all the news reports I've seen about forced prostitution in various countries around the world, I have no reason to doubt it.

But since that particular subject has nothing to do with what we were talking about, there is no reason to discuss it here.

Trying to change the subject, are ye?


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## kcvet (Jul 13, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Given all the news reports I've seen about forced prostitution in various countries around the world, I have no reason to doubt it.
> 
> But since that particular subject has nothing to do with what we were talking about, there is no reason to discuss it here.
> 
> Trying to change the subject, are ye?




get a life


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## Davey Jones (Jul 14, 2014)

*RE:used be Palestine, but in 1948, was annexed by the UN &  became the country of Israel.*

How come we have not heard a peep from the U.N. since it looks like it was the U.N. that started this problem in the first place.


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## kcvet (Jul 14, 2014)

same ole war different day


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## CPA-Kim (Jul 14, 2014)

I think it is a very sad thing......all wars.  As a species we are supposed to evolve yet it seems like the more we learn, the more we fight.  Some use religion as an excuse, some just fight for power and greed.  It's all very sad.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 14, 2014)

MrJim said:


> And the Israelis keep on building settlements on occupied Palestinian land.... :whome:



I've never been very political, and admit that since I've retired I've paid more attention to what was going on in the US and the world.  After watching the video I posted above, I have to say that it is true of the control over the media in the US due to certain interests and their power with money.  I've heard all these things before about the news being slanted always in favor of Israel, and this video makes it just a bit clearer to me.

We've talked about media control and bias on the forum before, and it's really a shame that this is happening in America today.  You'll get a bit more honest coverage of the realities of what's going on in the news from the BBC, than you will on Fox, that's for sure.  They are still increasing their settlements on occupied Palestinian land till this day, and our news media is reporting it as "Jewish Neighborhoods".  There's something very wrong here, good for the people who are open to hearing both sides of every story.


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## Bettyann (Jul 14, 2014)

I totally understand what you are saying, Davey Jones. I am shocked that we haven't sent our troops over there to 'help' out....At least the U.S. didn't run right over to  Israel to 'help them out' ... which is what we usually do...like tending to a spoiled brat. Sorry, but its how I feel.


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## Ina (Jul 14, 2014)

I think we all understand that "Fair Play", or "Justice For All" are concepts we can't delude ourselves with anymore. :tapfoot:


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## kcvet (Jul 14, 2014)

CPA-Kim said:


> I think it is a very sad thing......all wars. As a species we are supposed to evolve yet it seems like the more we learn, the more we fight. Some use religion as an excuse, some just fight for power and greed. It's all very sad.



its in the blood. just man's nature to kill his fellow man. they were fightin' wars before we were born. and they'll keep fighting them long after we're gone


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## MrJim (Jul 14, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> *RE:used be Palestine, but in 1948, was annexed by the UN &  became the country of Israel.*
> 
> How come we have not heard a peep from the U.N. since it looks like it was the U.N. that started this problem in the first place.



Actually it was Great Britain who initiated it, but the UN approved it.

Here is the way I understand the basic history of the region. There may be a detail or two that I might not have exactly right. But that area's history is so convoluted even many scholars of the ME don't completely understand it.

Palestine had been under the control of the Brits for 40 years. Prior to that it had been under the control of the Ottoman Turks for about 400 years & prior to that, the Romans I think. The Palestinians had never ruled the land themselves, but it was their home for over a thousand years. After WWII, when Britain could no longer afford to maintain it as a colony, Lord Balfour drafted a proposal to partition the territory & turn half of it over to the Zionists to form a Jewish state & keep half of it for the Palestinians. 

During the late 60's - early 70's, the Arabs launched a couple of attacks (the Six Day War & the Yom Kippur War) upon what had by then been Israel for about 20 years, but with the help of US military equipment & training, Israel was able to not only repel the attacks, but push into & capture some of the land that had been part of Palestine, thus making Palestine territory much smaller than it originally had been. 

Along with several other non-war related encroachments over the years, the Palestinians' land has continued to shrink more & more.

Here is a series of maps that show the progression:







I don't have a side in their fight, but I think it's pretty obvious why the Arabs are so pissed off at the Israelis.


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## Warrigal (Jul 14, 2014)

```

```



			
				Seabreeze said:
			
		

> You'll get a bit more honest coverage of the realities of what's going on in the news from the BBC, than you will on Fox, that's for sure


There are a couple of good reasons for this. One is government funded but has a charter that guarantees independence. The other is owned by Rupert Murdoch. News is only as good as it's sources.


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## MrJim (Jul 14, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> There are a couple of good reasons for this. One is government funded but has a charter that guarantees independence. The other is owned by Rupert Murdoch. News is only as good as it's sources.



The PBS Newshour with Gwen Ifill is pretty good too.

And on some PBS stations they show various world news broadcast from all over Europe & the far east.


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## Warrigal (Jul 14, 2014)

Occasionally I get to tune in to National Public Radio (NPR) and I find it very informative.


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