# Question about large entrance fees for senior housing



## Linda Doc (Feb 1, 2020)

A very nice senior housing development was built not far from where I currently live. It has single homes, condos, and apartments. I got some information and found out that for the apartments, depending on the size, you have to put down $114,000 and then the monthly fee is $1,342. I was wondering if anyone here has explored these type of deals and what the pros/cons are.  I imagine that the monthly fee, which covers all utilities and other amenities, will increase every year.


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## hollydolly (Feb 1, 2020)

Linda Doc said:


> A very nice senior housing development was built not far from where I currently live. It has single homes, condos, and apartments. I got some information and found out that for the apartments, depending on the size, you have to put down $114,000 and then the monthly fee is $1,342. I was wondering if anyone here has explored these type of deals and what the pros/cons are.  I imagine that the monthly fee, which covers all utilities and other amenities, will increase every year.


...also will it cover maintenance, pool cleaning, gardening  too?.. it sound very high to me , within a very few years you could be paying a massive monthly outlay...


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## Lvstotrvl (Feb 1, 2020)

What Is the $114,000 for,  buying the apartment? I never heard of buying an apartment.


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## JustBonee (Feb 1, 2020)

Lvstotrvl said:


> What Is the $114,000 for,  buying the apartment? I never heard of buying an apartment.



Me either..  our senior apartments around here are all leased.


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 1, 2020)

It's not an easy answer, you should have the documents reviewed by an attorney before making a decision.

There is a Kendal community not far from where I live that requires a buy-in plus monthly fee, the buy-in is partially refundable in the beginning and non-refundable after a certain period of time.

https://www.kendal.org/
Kendal is a very reputable company, as far as I know, and they will not accept you if they feel that you don't have sufficient sustainable income/assets.

This type of arrangement would not be for me because I might want to make a change at some point and doing so could be very expensive.

Do your homework, good luck.


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## jerry old (Feb 1, 2020)

Yes, what happens to the money when you are deceased
I assume it is non-refundable...

I know you purchase your apt in brown and high rise's  blds in New York, ...
The states listed are in the east and Midwest.  That is a lot of money.

Dallas has high dollar apts for sale here downtown, probably in every large city in this nation.


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## retiredtraveler (Feb 1, 2020)

Linda Doc said:


> _"......I got some information and found out that for the apartments, depending on the size, you have to put down $114,000 and then the monthly fee is $1,342...... wondering if anyone here has explored these type of deals and what the pros/cons are.  I imagine that the monthly fee, which covers all utilities and other amenities, will increase every year._



Is this a CCRC? We have a number of those in Chicago area. This option guarantees that you will be taken care of if your health, physical and/or mental, deteriorates. 

_"....Some senior living experts compare the CCRC payment model to an insurance policy. Residents pay more at the outset, when they are relatively healthy, with the understanding that they’ve locked in a price for a greater level of care — assisted living, memory care or skilled nursing — in the event that they need it.   
According to the 2018 Genworth Cost of Care Survey, the median cost of a private room in a skilled nursing facility is $8,365 a month and is expected to rise to $11,242 by 2028.
Considering the continued rise in senior living costs, locking in a fee can be a prudent long-term decision......"._

If this is a CCRC, there are countless articles about the pros/cons of them you can read for yourself. We have looked at these, we know people in them, and would consider it for us too. Yeah, they're expensive, but as the quote states above, it's insurance. Also, the money is sometimes refundable, or partially refundable, under certain conditions. You will have to look at your contract.


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## jerry old (Feb 1, 2020)

A huge expense for all states is for nursing home care, any way they can cut expenses
will be securitized.


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## Linda Doc (Feb 1, 2020)

retiredtraveler said:


> Is this a CCRC? We have a number of those in Chicago area. This option guarantees that you will be taken care of if your health, physical and/or mental, deteriorates.
> 
> _"....Some senior living experts compare the CCRC payment model to an insurance policy. Residents pay more at the outset, when they are relatively healthy, with the understanding that they’ve locked in a price for a greater level of care — assisted living, memory care or skilled nursing — in the event that they need it.
> According to the 2018 Genworth Cost of Care Survey, the median cost of a private room in a skilled nursing facility is $8,365 a month and is expected to rise to $11,242 by 2028.
> ...


I took another look and it's tied to a local hospital system, and yes, the money is partially refundable. Thanks for the heads-up.


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## Pecos (Feb 1, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> It's not an easy answer, you should have the documents reviewed by an attorney before making a decision.
> 
> There is a Kendal community not far from where I live that requires a buy-in plus monthly fee, the buy-in is partially refundable in the beginning and non-refundable after a certain period of time.
> 
> ...


Thanks, this is good information.
I looked at their site, and they are a bit "spendy."


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## Liberty (Feb 2, 2020)

This one has been out there for a long time - they are a not for profit one and ill refund 90% of your the buy in: https://www.ericksonliving.com


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## Manatee (Feb 2, 2020)

We _own_ our condo apartment in a 55+ community.  We pay $315 monthly which covers building maintenance, water, sewer and maintains roads,  2 recreation centers and pools plus a 9 and an 18 hole golf courses.  
No "buy in" but for continuing care you are on your own.  9000 residents.  Beach is about 20 minutes away.


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## Myquest55 (Feb 2, 2020)

Compared to the ones we have looked into that is REALLLY CHEAP!!  Every Retirement Community has different rules and operates differently so you should compare a few before you decide.  We have visited several around us - open house or by appointment.   With all the buy-ins we have seen you usually get at least 90% back when the unit is vacated (you die, you move, or go into nursing care, etc. ).  The fees usually cover at least one meal, access to meeting rooms, exercise rooms, and other facilities.  There is usually a waiting list - several new communities in New Hampshire have an 8 year wait to get in!


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## treeguy64 (Feb 2, 2020)

My dad had to put down $77,000, fully refundable to heirs, upon death. Weird deal. He paid $1350/mo. This was a luxury, highrise condo, in the early 00's. It had fine dining, a workout room and full hospital, in back. He had a workroom with all the tools he needed, all to himself, in the basement. 

The "doctors" discovered stomach cancer based on a shadow in an x-ray. Suddenly, he was given radiation and chemo, even though they never did a biopsy. It was all a scam. His apartment could be sold for much more money, a far greater deposit. The treatments killed him, a little later down the line. I had to threaten legal action to get his deposit released to his step daughter.

I'd avoid any of these places like the effing plague!


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## moviequeen1 (Feb 4, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> It's not an easy answer, you should have the documents reviewed by an attorney before making a decision.
> 
> There is a Kendal community not far from where I live that requires a buy-in plus monthly fee, the buy-in is partially refundable in the beginning and non-refundable after a certain period of time.
> 
> ...


My late parents lived at Kendal in Hanover,NH  from '92-'03,loved living there. These retirement communities are usually located near a university/college.My siblings&I always felt like it was second home when we visited them.When we were little,we spent part of our summer vacations near there,we knew the area.My dad was a Darmouth grad


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## boliverchadsworth (Feb 12, 2020)

Linda Doc said:


> A very nice senior housing development was built not far from where I currently live. It has single homes, condos, and apartments. I got some information and found out that for the apartments, depending on the size, you have to put down $114,000 and then the monthly fee is $1,342. I was wondering if anyone here has explored these type of deals and what the pros/cons are.  I imagine that the monthly fee, which covers all utilities and other amenities, will increase every year.


get a trustworty lawyer gereritic  local hospitals have access you can do better than than..


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## Michella A (Feb 19, 2020)

114000  & here I was complaining about the 5500 entrance fee for a residential Assisted Living Place. I may need to reconsider it did include a lot of amenities.


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## MarciKS (Feb 25, 2020)

I recently read an article online about a new form of senior living that sorta sounded a little more communal. In it they were talking about elderly living apartments where the dwellers would move into and essentially have their own community and look after each other as a more affordable alternative to nursing homes. They have already started little communities in the wings of nursing homes. I think it's perhaps an answer to overcrowding and costs. Might be worth looking into.


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## Liberty (Feb 26, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I recently read an article online about a new form of senior living that sorta sounded a little more communal. In it they were talking about elderly living apartments where the dwellers would move into and essentially have their own community and look after each other as a more affordable alternative to nursing homes. They have already started little communities in the wings of nursing homes. I think it's perhaps an answer to overcrowding and costs. Might be worth looking into.


If you run across an article on it, please post it as  forum folks might really be interested in it.  Thanks in advance.


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## JB in SC (Mar 4, 2020)

There’s a good one in our area, non profit. Buy in and monthly fees are not terrible.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 13, 2020)

Doesn't sound reasonable to me.


Lvstotrvl said:


> What Is the $114,000 for,  buying the apartment? I never heard of buying an apartment.





Bonnie said:


> Me either..  our senior apartments around here are all leased.


When people buy condominiums, they are buying their apartments (sometimes called units).  I live in cooperative housing (aka co-op). Technically I bought one share in the co-op but in reality, I bought my apartment. It's not a senior complex per se, but many of us are seniors now. I bought it when I was 24, going on 49 years ago.


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## Manatee (Mar 13, 2020)

We own our condo apartment, have a deed and can sell it any time we choose.


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## sehr alt (May 11, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> My dad had to put down $77,000, fully refundable to heirs, upon death. Weird deal. He paid $1350/mo. This was a luxury, highrise condo, in the early 00's. It had fine dining, a workout room and full hospital, in back. He had a workroom with all the tools he needed, all to himself, in the basement.
> 
> The "doctors" discovered stomach cancer based on a shadow in an x-ray. Suddenly, he was given radiation and chemo, even though they never did a biopsy. It was all a scam. His apartment could be sold for much more money, a far greater deposit. The treatments killed him, a little later down the line. I had to threaten legal action to get his deposit released to his step daughter.
> 
> I'd avoid any of these places like the effing plague!


I've decided to avoid those hideously expensive options as long as I can. So far it has worked out well. I share my 2 bedroom, 2 bath condo with my son. He lost his job, so I charge him no rent.


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## terry123 (May 12, 2020)

I own my condo and can sell any time I want to.


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## Buckeye (May 12, 2020)

My folks went into a "senior care" facility 6 or 7 years ago.  It is run by the Methodist church, and is great.  Buy-in was approx. $250k, of which some portion may be refunded when they are both gone.  Not sure of the monthly $$.  They started in independent living section but were moved into assisted living section, where their meds (and now meals) are delivered and administered by the staff, etc.  Next step is a section for those dealing with memory loss and other cognitive functions, and at the end, a hospice section.    It is not a small facility, nor is it overwhelming in size.

It is NOT a "condo".  You are paying for care, not just a place to hang your hat.  It is a great facility, and even if their income becomes insufficient to pay the monthly fee, they can never be moved out.


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## Myquest55 (Jul 18, 2020)

Kendall is a well-known Retirement Living Group and is generally known as upscale.  My father was in an Erickson Community - more affordable and from our experience, exceptionally well run.  That said, however, we are finding out that the original agreement was for his estate to be responsible for 3 months of fees beyond vacating his unit and they deduct funds for re-furbishing it.  (Dad could have painted the walls, put up window treatments and decorated however they wanted, inside the unit)  

A good thing is - that my father and step-mother each paid half the buy-in.  Now they are both gone, the community will split the refundable monies and send half to each estate.  One less thing we have to deal with!  A not-so-good thing is that we won't get paid until A) the unit is re-sold (should be easy - they have 1500 on the wait list) and B) the new tenants have lived there at least 30 days and agree to stay.  As time goes on that could be a real sticking point!!  The wait list will not be that long forever!

Most of the Retirement Communities around here ( NOT an over-55 neighborhood or complex but a full service place ) are CO-OPS.  We had planned to tour a few more and ask more questions this summer but....everything is still pretty locked up here yet.  One of these days.  We're on one wait list and I want to be on at least one or two more - just in case.   Anyone else??


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## Pecos (Jul 18, 2020)

Myquest55 said:


> Kendall is a well-known Retirement Living Group and is generally known as upscale.  My father was in an Erickson Community - more affordable and from our experience, exceptionally well run.  That said, however, we are finding out that the original agreement was for his estate to be responsible for 3 months of fees beyond vacating his unit and they deduct funds for re-furbishing it.  (Dad could have painted the walls, put up window treatments and decorated however they wanted, inside the unit)
> 
> A good thing is - that my father and step-mother each paid half the buy-in.  Now they are both gone, the community will split the refundable monies and send half to each estate.  One less thing we have to deal with!  A not-so-good thing is that we won't get paid until A) the unit is re-sold (should be easy - they have 1500 on the wait list) and B) the new tenants have lived there at least 30 days and agree to stay.  As time goes on that could be a real sticking point!!  The wait list will not be that long forever!
> 
> Most of the Retirement Communities around here ( NOT an over-55 neighborhood or complex but a full service place ) are CO-OPS.  We had planned to tour a few more and ask more questions this summer but....everything is still pretty locked up here yet.  One of these days.  We're on one wait list and I want to be on at least one or two more - just in case.   Anyone else??


Good information. Thanks!


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## Sunny (Aug 10, 2020)

Lvstotrvl said:


> What Is the $114,000 for,  buying the apartment? I never heard of buying an apartment.



A "bought apartment" is usually a condo. Most of the apartments where I live are resident-owned condos. In fact, there is a limit on the number of rentals allowed per building.

That $114,000 sounds outrageous to me. Here, the initial fee for moving in is 2% of the selling price of the unit, obviously a lot less than that!


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