# Father-Daughter Relationships



## Carl B (Jun 22, 2016)

Relationships between senior fathers and adult daughters is a huge topic, but let's see whether we can get some good discussions of this topic and perhaps learn from each other's experiences.

Even one such relationship can be complicated -- especially if either has health issues, a son-in-law is involved, her mother and you have disagreements, etc., etc.

In my case, we also have a landlord-tenant relationship. I'm renting a townhouse from them. I live three miles from them, and I visited them and their children (my grandchildren) 3-4 times a week without a problem, for 11 years.  I thought of it as visiting heaven.  I also got my exercise by working in their 3½ acre spread as a groundskeeper. But finally it came out that my morbidly obese son-in-law resented me raiding the refrigerator.  So he sent my daughter to tell me, in her sternest voice, that I had to limit my visits to once a week. (And she complained that I entered an unoccupied bedroom once when I was looking for something.)  So I could visit my family only once a week, and the rest of the time I was living alone. Depressing.

So I tried this: Via email, I sent them a set of proposed rules that I will follow if they will just let me visit twice a week:


No entering the house between the hours of 10pm and 7am.  (Outside arrival as early as 6am is OK.)
No entering unannounced.  Ring doorbell or knock.  (Let me know if you would also like advanced warning.)  If the door is locked and nobody is available to answer the door, and the side and back doors are also locked, of course I can't come in.
No entering bedrooms.
No going upstairs unless looking for a tool for work in progress, and put the tool back where I found it.
Eat or drink only what is offered, what I have brought, or water.
Work visits: Following the above rules, I can enter the house anytime to cool off or warm up in the foyer, or get a quick drink.  (I usually bring my own drink, but if I didn't, a quick drink in the kitchen is allowed.)  Then get the hell out of the house and return to my outdoor project.
Social visits: Following the above rules, I can enter the house up to twice a week as a father, grandfather, and father-in-law who is allowed to sit in the den or kitchen or living room or foyer, talk to people, play solitaire on my phone, and maybe even watch TV.
These rules do not apply in an emergency, for example, if I hear a scream in the house or (with respect to the kitchen fridge) if the water cooler is empty and I am thirsty.  (Please don't make me drink tap water.)
They both agreed to this arrangement.  My daughter also told me, in private, that I am welcome in the home anytime her husband is not there.

Lesson learned:  Identify the problem, then agree to a set of rules that avoid the problem.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Jun 23, 2016)

Do they just walk in the door at your home, help themselves to whatever is in the fridge, go looking in your home for something they want to borrow?

I live in a granny flat attached to my daughter's/son-in-law's house and would not _think_ of helping myself to anything in their house...certainly wouldn't go looking for anything in their house and wouldn't dream of raiding their fridge. If there's something I need, I ask. If there are leftovers that appeal to me for lunch, I ask. I share the washer/dryer but always ask if anybody else needs to use them before I do my own laundry. I have a separate entrance, and it would _never_ occur to me to use the key code to waltz in their front door anymore than it would occur to them to walk in my door! As a matter of fact, I wouldn't dream of visiting my son on the other side of town and just walking into his home, even though he'd be expecting me.

I can understand your son-in-law's annoyance.


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## tnthomas (Jun 23, 2016)

Carl, forgive me if I'm reading the situation wrong, but basically the main issue is: that you "violated" the turf of your son-in-law by raiding his fridge.   This doesn't have to be a male head-butting thing, perhaps you might consider bringing something* edible* over, and sharing with them?


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## NancyNGA (Jun 23, 2016)

Guess I'm the odd person out, but I couldn't wait to get out on my own.  Found living at home to be stifling.  Always treated like a child that didn't know anything. Same thing whenever we got together in later years.  I wanted to make my very own mistakes. 

 I moved far away, but there was always the telephone and letters. My parents made their friends, I made mine, and we moved on with our lives. There were no grandchildren.  Maybe that was the difference, but then my parents were never much interested in children. As far as father-daughter, it was easier for my mother.

That seems to me to be what you'd consider good parenting---raise your kids to go out on their own and make it without your help or interference.


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## Shalimar (Jun 23, 2016)

Perhaps bringing over some food would help. Positive note that your daughter welcomes you into her home any time her husband is absent. Your SIL's reaction seems a bit controlling. All this ultimately over fridge rights? if he is morbidly obese, his reaction to food may very well be proprietary to the level of being irrational.


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## Carl B (Jun 23, 2016)

Georgia:
Do they just walk in the door, No, just the opposite, they never visit me.  If I go looking for a tool it's to help _them_.  The wheel falling off the wheelbarrow because of a loose nut, for example.  (Please -- No puns on "loose nut".)  And it's not like I'm rummaging through their house looking for the wrench.  The tools are in a well defined spot at the top of the stairs.

All:
I often bring over a bottle of sparkling grape juice.  I've tried bringing over food, but they seldom like what I bring.


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## Shalimar (Jun 23, 2016)

I am so sorry you have to deal with this Carl. Sure sounds like SIL has major issues around being king of the castle.


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## Cookie (Jun 23, 2016)

Being respectful of your daughter and her family's home turf and fridge might help ease the stress as well as a call ahead of time to see if a visit is convenient.  People need their privacy and space.  My son lives close by but never drops in announced and waits to be offered food and drinks and same goes for me. Even if he comes over to help me with something, I'll offer a drink or food and/or he always asks if he wants something.


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## Carl B (Jun 23, 2016)

Shalimar, thanks for the empathy.

Cookie, I basically agree with you.  My situation is further complicated by two levels of visits: (1) I may simply work outside.  My SIL likes to see me tidying up his lawn & woods.  (2) I may also come inside.  For 11 years, there was no problem.  My food raiding was minor, often I would just get a drink from the fridge or make myself a PBJ.  I think what pushed my SIL over the edge was when I finished off an ice cream carton.  He probably had plans for that ice cream.

But now I will follow agreed-on rules that formalize our relationship along the lines that you suggest.


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## tnthomas (Jun 23, 2016)

Carl B said:


> Shalimar, thanks for the empathy.
> 
> Cookie, I basically agree with you.  My situation is further complicated by two levels of visits: (1) I may simply work outside.  My SIL likes to see me tidying up his lawn & woods.  (2) I may also come inside.  For 11 years, there was no problem.  My food raiding was minor, often I would just get a drink from the fridge or make myself a PBJ.  I think what pushed my SIL over the edge was when I finished off an ice cream carton.  He probably had plans for that ice cream.
> 
> But now I will follow agreed-on rules that formalize our relationship along the lines that you suggest.



Yea brother, that would do it.


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## Shalimar (Jun 23, 2016)

Often, people who are completely out of control of their lives around addiction issues  attempt to grab control in other ways.


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## Debby (Jun 23, 2016)

It's too bad you enjoy being there so much.  Seems to me that if you do as much around THEIR place as you say, then they should be grateful that you're there doing it and all it costs is a sandwich or a drink now and again.  If they had to hire some guy to do those things, it would cost an awful lot more and would likely never get done and their place would be a shambles.  Sheesh, some people eh?  You're a better man than I Carl because I'd be so hurt that they'd probably never see me again.  I'd hole up and be depressed for months....


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## Shalimar (Jun 23, 2016)

Yep, I kinda agree with Debby on this one.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Jun 23, 2016)

Carl, sorry...I read your post as if you just did your coming and going at will. I see now what you meant. Sounds like your SIL has a bit of a control problem going on...and you DID eat the last of HIS ice cream! LOL  Maybe you could take him a peace offering of a gallon of the same kind?


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## Mrs. Robinson (Jun 23, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Yep, I kinda agree with Debby on this one.



Me too.


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## Cookie (Jun 23, 2016)

Carl, the 'arrangement' you have to work on your daughter's land seems vague to me, do you get paid for this, is it your idea, or is this reciprocal in some way.  Looks like if you don't get paid or anything for the work you do on their land, they might be a bit more generous and nicer about you being in their house and take better care of you.  If I were getting nothing for the work I was doing, I'd consider stepping back from it.


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## Carl B (Jun 23, 2016)

Thanks for the kind replies.  I don't want to over-dramatize the work I do on their land.  It's just minor mowing and cleanup, a few hours at a time, in part for them and in part to keep me active and healthy.  My SIL has a little front-end loader, a tiller, and a much nicer chainsaw than mine and gets a lot more done than me.

But it turns out the SIL was behind the restricting of access to my family.  He is not thrilled to see me in the house.  I will be getting around that by going to their house about twice a week when he is working.  I will be more discreet than in the past.  I just want to get out of isolation and soak up some family atmosphere.  Conversing with my daughter and grandkids is the best, but if they are busy, just petting their dog and sitting in their living room for an hour is very therapeutic.


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## Shalimar (Jun 24, 2016)

Carl, I am not surprised that the furor is stirred up by your SIL. I am pleased that the rest of your family feel differently.


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## Butterfly (Jun 24, 2016)

Carl B said:


> Shalimar, thanks for the empathy.
> 
> Cookie, I basically agree with you.  My situation is further complicated by two levels of visits: (1) I may simply work outside.  My SIL likes to see me tidying up his lawn & woods.  (2) I may also come inside.  For 11 years, there was no problem.  My food raiding was minor, often I would just get a drink from the fridge or make myself a PBJ.  I think what pushed my SIL over the edge was when I finished off an ice cream carton.  He probably had plans for that ice cream.
> 
> But now I will follow agreed-on rules that formalize our relationship along the lines that you suggest.



Gosh, if a relative were tidying up my lawn and woods, they'd be welcome to that ice cream.  Do you do this work for him for free??


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## Butterfly (Jun 24, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Yep, I kinda agree with Debby on this one.



Me, too.  And I'd tell 'em where to put their odd jobs.


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## Carl B (Jun 24, 2016)

Butterfly said:


> Do you do this work for him for free??


 Yes and no.  I get invited to a weekly meal, and that is generous compensation.


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## Shalimar (Jun 24, 2016)

Hmm. Carl, I think you are under appreciated.


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## Carl B (Jun 24, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Often, people who are completely out of control of their lives around addiction issues  attempt to grab control in other ways.


A fascinating observation that explains a lot.  He is addicted to eating, especially sweets.  His belly hangs down to his crotch.  I am 29 years older, yet I may outlive him.


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## nitelite (Jul 25, 2016)

Carl, Your intentions are good in wanting a loving family. Dealing with your SIL is a difficult situation as it is his house and he feels and resents your intrusions. Your email of rules appear very fair to all involved. His 'man of the house' attitude shows no respect to his wife, his children, and you. You eating 'his' ice cream put the frosting on the cake that had been baking for quite some time. Be thankful that your daughter is a strong woman that does not seem to tolerate his full control. You're a loving father and grandfather and that provides a better life for your daughter and your precious grandchildren. I wish you much happiness.


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## Carl B (Jul 28, 2016)

Thanks, nitelite!


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## Brookswood (Aug 4, 2016)

Haha!   I wish my daughter kept enough descent food in her fridge that it was worth raiding!  I have learned to bring over my own coffee, creamer and snacks when I visit.   Otherwise it's vanillal-pumpkin-spice chemical junk to lighten my coffee and raw leaves for lunch.

Still I love her dearly and I don't know what I would do without her.


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## leowks (Aug 13, 2016)

I am not sure what is the difference between eastern culture and western culture.
My daughter married to a westerner 2 years ago and  residing in  UK.  They have being staying in separate cities due to job requirement and trying hard to come to stay together. Once they decided to settle down in that city, they plan to buy a dream house there. I believe it could be as soon as next spring.
Me and my wife yet to live with my SIL. We made family trips before, that was twice before they got married and another time was during their wedding (soon after wedding ceremony in UK). I doubt my SIL contributed much financially, because seem to me most payment was made by my daughter.

My concern now is when my daughter/SIL finally come to settle down in one city and buy a house, me and my wife plan to go over and stay with them for a while, probably a month or so.
1. What are the Do and Don't when we stay with them?
2. Do I have to contribute anything in terms of dollar and cent? I don't mind if it is a norm for westerner as I am financially OK to spent a few thousands GBP per visit.
3. Do I have to tell them how long we intend to stay by buying a return ticket with fixed date? I don't expect my SIL to pay for our air tickets.
4. Do I have to bring any gift? 
5. What type of gift is most appropriate?

Any suggestion and advice are most welcome, especially those from the UK.
TQVM.


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## Brookswood (Aug 16, 2016)

I think it's more the family values than East vs. West culture.

Some families are warm and welcoming of just about anybody.  Others take the view that only blood matters. I have known a few people who even refuse to acknowledge that an adopted child is really a genuine relative.  Needless to say, that just about kills any chance of a good relationship with the parents. 

However, I would say that you should set a limit to your visit and keep it on the short side.  A small gift is always appreciated, but better is to help out around the house with chores and things like that.     Nobody likes to be treated like they are running an extended stay hotel in their house.


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