# Baker Refuses to Make Wedding Cake for Gay Couple



## SeaBreeze (Dec 6, 2013)

I don't know all the details on this story, but this baker has a business serving the public, and I think refusing to make a cake for this couple is ridiculous...http://www.advocate.com/politics/ma...er-who-refused-gay-wedding-cake-appears-court


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## SifuPhil (Dec 6, 2013)

I think the baker did himself in when he made the cake for the dog wedding - I don't know of any church that sanctions those. 

But I also wonder why the couples simply didn't move on to the next bakery on the list, instead of literally making a Federal case out of it.


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## babyboomer (Dec 6, 2013)

The baker is a bad businessman. Pink dollar has the same value as the green dollar.
A cake is a cake, a dollar profit, is a dollar profit!


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## RedRibbons (Dec 6, 2013)

That is so messed up!


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## rkunsaw (Dec 7, 2013)

Bakers have rights too. I admire someone who puts his morals above the almighty dollar.


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## Rainee (Dec 7, 2013)

I would have thought the baker would have made a wedding cake for who ever wanted one made.. 
unless he knew who was getting the cake made any one could have got the cake .. like you go into buy 
a cake you don`t tell the baker who its for you just buy a cake.. lol but business is business and if he feels strongly 
about it well its his choice.. my stepfather was a floor sander and he wouldn`t do any jobs for a certain countryman 
because they killed his family in the war .. but that was his choice too.. I guess how you feel has a lot to do with your work..


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## JustBonee (Dec 7, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> I don't know all the details on this story, but this baker has a business serving the public, and I think refusing to make a cake for this couple is ridiculous...http://www.advocate.com/politics/ma...er-who-refused-gay-wedding-cake-appears-court




I think some people do what they do for the sole purpose of making headlines.  He could have quietly said No, I'm too busy and that would have been the end of it ..


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 7, 2013)

Like I said, I don't know all the details of the story, but if there was a bakery in my area that was good (and they're few and far between), and I had planned and my heart set on having a delicious cake from them for my wedding, then I'd be ticked off too.  They may have just wanted to make headlines, but I'm doubting that.

Just as easily as you can say the gays are making a big production out of it, how about the baker?  He didn't have to give them their vows, he didn't have to join them on their honeymoon, and he didn't have to jump on the opportunity to judge them and use his power to deny them service.  These religious zealots are go way over the line too.  They don't have to condone gay marriage, birth control, etc...but come, we're talking a cake from a baker here.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 7, 2013)

I agree - BOTH parties are being silly, and if it ended there it would just be an amusing anecdote.

But it isn't ending there - both sides are now going to be spending large amounts of time, energy and money (part of it the taxpayers') to "prove" that they're right. Of course, they can't prove it in a moral or ethical sense - only in a legal one, and only as far as one set of judges / jurists can see. 

Had both parties been more sensible, either the baker would have baked the cake, the gay couple gone on to the next baker or they could have played "rock, paper, scissors". But no - the religious zealot has too much pride and faith, the gay couple is hunting for a reason to be offended and the only positive thing that will come of this is that a few more newspapers will be sold and a few more viewers gained for a few more television rating points. 

Actually this is below my notice - don't know why I'm even commenting on it.


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## Jackie22 (Dec 7, 2013)

The judge ruled in favor of the gay couple.....

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/06/21795833-judge-orders-colorado-baker-to-serve-gay-couples?lite

babyboomer is correct, you cannot discriminate if you're in business,  I don't think I'd eat the cake though...lol


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## SifuPhil (Dec 7, 2013)

Jackie22 said:


> ... I don't think I'd eat the cake though...lol



Yeah, you don't know what "extra ingredients" he might put in it. 

Colorado has a strange set of laws - same-sex marriages are banned but civil unions are allowed - go figure THAT one out. 

The ACLU lawyer claims they _aren't_ making the baker change his religious beliefs by forcing him to serve gay couples - I don't see how that can be ... they are basically demanding that he go against his faith or go out of business.


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## Davey Jones (Dec 7, 2013)

Problem with gays is they STILL insist we accept their way of life by shoving everything about them down our throats.


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## Fern (Dec 7, 2013)

Yere, pity they wouldn't get over themselves.It's too bad when you can't choose who you will do business with,afterall it's your money that set the business up, you have the headaches that come with being self employed. 

Throw all the self serving PC idiots into the tide.


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## babyboomer (Dec 7, 2013)

If he was a business oriented baker he would make a cake in colours of a rainbow. 
Incidentally, ACT (Canberra) has recognised "guy marriages" but it clashes with the Federal law.
 I'm thinking of opening a cake shop, with Pink Pie on the Menu!:lofl:


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## GDAD (Dec 8, 2013)

I wonder if the baker asks every customer whether they are gay before he sells them any of his products?..
Where in the bible does it say"THOUGH SHALL NOT MAKE CAKES FOR GAYS"!
Bloody hell Jesus used to frequent with Prostitutes.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 8, 2013)

GDAD said:


> Bloody hell Jesus used to frequent with Prostitutes.



Prostitutes, beggars and thieves ...

He hung out in Greenwich Village, man! 


Leviticus 18:22 - _Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, nor make them yummy triple-tiered cakes - it is an abomination. _


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## Davey Jones (Dec 8, 2013)

So what we're talking about here if I as a house painter dont want to paint a gays couples house,I can be sued?
Like I said gays have the right to live their lives as they wish but when they start forcing their way of life on me then I will start not giving a damn about them.


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## That Guy (Dec 8, 2013)




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## SifuPhil (Dec 8, 2013)

Davey Jones said:


> So what we're talking about here if I as a house painter dont want to paint a gays couples house,I can be sued?
> Like I said gays have the right to live their lives as they wish but when they start forcing their way of life on me then I will start not giving a damn about them.



Given a good-enough attorney, if you refused to paint my house because it was actually a fiber-board shack, I could probably sue you on the grounds that I'm a Taoist and you don't like Taoists ... 

God Bless Amerika.


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## Davey Jones (Dec 9, 2013)

Coud I pay you to burn that fiber-board shack down,Ill bring the marshmellows.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 9, 2013)

Davey Jones said:


> Coud I pay you to burn that fiber-board shack down,Ill bring the marshmellows.



Okay, I'll bring the booze and the chicks!


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 13, 2015)

Today court confirms discrimination against the baker.  :applause2:  


*Masterpiece Cakeshop Violated Civil Rights Law by Turning Away Gay Couple, Court Rules*

8/13/2015
*DENVER* – In a unanimous decision issued this morning, the Colorado Court of Appeals ruled that a Lakewood Bakery unlawfully discriminated against David Mullins and Charlie Craig by refusing to sell them a cake for their wedding reception. 

The ruling affirms a finding in May 2014 from the Colorado Civil Rights Commission that Masterpiece Cakeshop’s policy of turning away same-sex couples violates Colorado’s Anti-Discrimination Act.

“Today is a proud day for equality and for upholding the law. In America, no one should be turned away from a shop or restaurant because of who they are or who they love,” said Ria Mar, staff attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union’s LGBT Project, who argued the case. 

“When every lesbian or gay person, every woman, every person of color, every person of every faith can walk into a store, a bank, a hospital, and know that they will get the same service as everyone else, we will have won. Until then, we continue to fight for the equal treatment we all deserve. Today we can celebrate this big win.”

In 2012, Colorado residents David Mullins and Charlie Craig, along with Charlie’s mother Deborah Munn, visited Masterpiece Cakeshop to order a wedding cake. Mullins and Craig planned to marry in Massachusetts and then celebrate with family and friends back home. Masterpiece owner Jack Phillips informed the couple that, because of his religious beliefs, it was his standard business practice to refuse to provide cakes to customers for same-sex weddings. Phillips has turned away several other couples for the same reason.

Colorado’s Anti-Discrimination Act prohibits businesses, such as Masterpiece Cakeshop, from refusing service based on factors including race, sex, national origin, or ****** orientation. The American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU of Colorado filed suit on behalf of Mullins and Craig in 2013. 

In December 2013, an administrative judge ruled that the bakery had illegally discriminated against the couple. In 2014, the Colorado Civil Rights Commission affirmed that ruling. Masterpiece Cakeshop appealed.

According to the opinion, “Masterpiece remains free to continue espousing its religious beliefs, including its opposition to same-sex marriage. However, if it wishes to operate as a public accommodation and conduct business within the State of Colorado, CADA prohibits it from picking and choosing its customers based on their ****** orientation.”

When businesses and other institutions that serve the public have sought exemptions to laws barring discrimination based on ****** orientation and gender identity, the courts have held that businesses are required to comply with anti–discrimination laws. The courts have ruled without regard to whether LGBT people could have obtained the goods or service elsewhere.  Instead the courts have recognized the harm to equal opportunity if lesbian and gay people can be turned away from businesses otherwise open to the public because of who they are.

For more information about _Charlie Craig and David Mullins v. Masterpiece Cakeshop_:https://www.aclu.org/cases/charlie-craig-and-david-mullins-v-masterpiece-cakeshop?redirect=lgbt-rights/charlie-craig-and-david-mullins-v-masterpiece-cakeshop


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## oakapple (Aug 13, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I think the baker did himself in when he made the cake for the dog wedding - I don't know of any church that sanctions those.
> 
> But I also wonder why the couples simply didn't move on to the next bakery on the list, instead of literally making a Federal case out of it.


This seems to be happening in lots of countries recently, and I wonder the same Phil.


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## tnthomas (Aug 13, 2015)

GDAD said:


> I wonder if the baker asks every customer whether they are gay before he sells them any of his products?..
> Where in the bible does it say"THOUGH SHALL NOT MAKE CAKES FOR GAYS"!
> Bloody hell Jesus used to frequent with Prostitutes.



True story!

It's weird, there are some that claim to be Christians, and to love Jesus, but it's glaringly clear that they don't love what Jesus said, taught and ultimately died on the cross for.


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## Shalimar (Aug 13, 2015)

So pleased at the ruling.


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## Warrigal (Aug 13, 2015)

GDAD said:


> I wonder if the baker asks every customer whether they are gay before he sells them any of his products?..
> Where in the bible does it say"THOUGH SHALL NOT MAKE CAKES FOR GAYS"!
> Bloody hell Jesus used to frequent with Prostitutes.



Worse than that. He dined with tax collectors.


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## Shalimar (Aug 13, 2015)

Warri, lolololol.


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## Linda (Aug 13, 2015)

When a person orders a cake from that baker I wonder if he asks them if they have ever committed adultery,  lied, stolen anything, etc.  I don't care what belief system someone has but I just hate it when they get all self righteous and judgmental about it.   And now darn it, I want to eat some cake and there's none in the house!


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 13, 2015)

Here you go Linda, I'll have some with you...low cal!


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## Linda (Aug 13, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> Here you go Linda, I'll have some with you...low cal!




Oh my gosh!  Cake is my favorite food!  I could just bury my face in that Seabreeze!   Yeah, I can tell by looking at it, it's real low cal.


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## Butterfly (Aug 14, 2015)

Well, the point of all this is that if you set yourself up in business serving the public, you cannot discriminate against any one group; they shouldn't have had to go to another baker; the courts have clearly established that separate but equal doesn't cut it.  Refusing to do business with a gay couple isn't really any different than refusing to serve black folks at a lunch counter.  It's all discrimination and if you have a public business, you can't get away with it.  Period.  What next -- refusing to serve Muslims, black people or Jews?  Besides which, in a practical vein, it's only a lousy cake.  The article says he does sell other things to gay people, and making a wedding cake really isn't any different, anyway.

 I think the baker is the one grandstanding, and the court is right.  We all have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but we do NOT have the right to deny others that same right.

People 60 years ago ago probably said the black people were making a big deal out of nothing when they didn't want to use the "colored" drinking fountain down the hall, or the "colored" waiting rooms in bus stations or go to different schools.


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## Shalimar (Aug 14, 2015)

Once, women were perceived as making a big deal out of nothing when they wanted the vote. It is all the same.


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## chic (Aug 14, 2015)

I can't believe in this day and age something like this could even happen.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 14, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> Well, the point of all this is that if you set yourself up in business serving the public, you cannot discriminate against any one group; they shouldn't have had to go to another baker; the courts have clearly established that separate but equal doesn't cut it. It's all discrimination and if you have a public business, you can't get away with it.  Period.  The article says he does sell other things to gay people, and making a wedding cake really isn't any different, anyway.
> 
> I think the baker is the one grandstanding, and the court is right.  We all have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but we do NOT have the right to deny others that same right.



Well said Butterfly, as a baker he was supposed to do his job that his business advertises, throw some flour, water and eggs together for this customer and make them a cake.  He didn't have to perform the wedding ceremony, or accompany them to their honeymoon suite.   Baker is grandstanding to be sure.


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## Kadee (Aug 14, 2015)

Yes I know this is not about a bakery .. However on the same lines of people with firm views on Gay rights .........The CEO of OUR LOCAL COUNCIL on a very good wage , resigned beacuse he refused to have the gay flag flying out the front of the council building 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-02/council-boss-quits-over-rainbow-flag-raising/6590500


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## AZ Jim (Aug 14, 2015)

Ok.  If I'm a baker, I should expect to make cakes for my customers, tall, short, men, women, ugly, beautiful, gay, straight...whoever walks through my door and agrees to pay.  As a pharmacist I should sell birth control products to my customers, whoever they are, I should sell morning after products, condoms, whatever that customer wants.  If, in either business I will not sell to ANYONE, I should close up and sell to NO ONE!!!


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## Butterfly (Aug 15, 2015)

Yup, that's the way it's supposed to work.  If you're going to have a business, you have to abide by the law and put your personal prejudices aside.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 15, 2015)

Not to mention..... every business, even private businesses are subsidized by our tax dollar..  in that the sidewalks and roads leading people to their business are taxpayer funded... the street lights and other infrastructure that a business needs to operate... water, sewers and garbage disposal are funded by tax dollars..  No business could operate if they had to secure all that privately.. and guess who ALSO pays those taxes... yep.. gay people pay taxes too.


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## Laurie (Aug 16, 2015)

I wonder what would  happen if I went into a Muslim baker and asked for a cake bearing a image of the Prophet?

I know what would happen over here - I'd face charges for religious offences.  Perhaps your laws are different.

If a Muslim, quite rightly, can refuse to offend against his own religious beliefs, should not a nominally Christian country extend the same courtesy to Christians?


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## QuickSilver (Aug 16, 2015)

Laurie said:


> I wonder what would  happen if I went into a Muslim baker and asked for a cake bearing a image of the Prophet?
> 
> I know what would happen over here - I'd face charges for religious offences.  Perhaps your laws are different.
> 
> If a Muslim, quite rightly, can refuse to offend against his own religious beliefs, should not a nominally Christian country extend the same courtesy to Christians?



Not even a reasonable analogy Laurie..    For one thing.. no one is asking these bakers to bake a cake depicting blasphemy against Jesus.. or something a Christian would consider blasphemy..   They are asking for a simple WEDDING CAKE..   I would assume with flowers and whatever else appears on traditional wedding cakes, which this baker makes every day and is in the business of making.    How can you even think your example even compares?


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## Laurie (Aug 16, 2015)

" or something a Christian would consider blasphemy.. "

Not me, but many would, and do, as "an abomination in the sight of the Lord".

For the record I am not a homophobe, but I am a Christian.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 16, 2015)

Laurie said:


> " or something a Christian would consider blasphemy.. "
> 
> Not me, but many would, and do, as "an abomination in the sight of the Lord".
> 
> For the record I am not a homophobe, but I am a Christian.



If they asked the baker to decorate with the image of two men in a sex act I might have to agree with you, but a simple wedding cake, no, you have no standing in that case.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 16, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> If they asked the baker to decorate with the image of two men in a sex act I might have to agree with you, but a simple wedding cake, no, you have no standing in that case.



You are absolutely spot on in your analogy Jim.   To provide a service for someone... particularly if it's a service you would provide for everyone else, and refusing to do so simply because you do not approve of the customer is not only judgmental.. but against the law.


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## Laurie (Aug 17, 2015)

Not looking for "standing".  Just giving an opinion like everybody else.


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## Linda (Aug 17, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> You are absolutely spot on in your analogy Jim.   To provide a service for someone... particularly if it's a service you would provide for everyone else, and refusing to do so simply because you do not approve of the customer is not only judgmental.. but against the law.




I agree with Jim and QuickSilver on this one.


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