# Looks like national lockdown coming in England



## Treacle (Oct 31, 2020)

PM wants to save Christmas!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54763956

And when this lockdown is over ???????


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 31, 2020)

Have you tackled all of your Christmas shopping yet, Tre?

What a mad-rush it will be when the lockdown is lifted.

My personal take on the issue, a lockdown so close to Christmas will result in the ballooning of cases once the lockdown is lifted.


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## MarciKS (Oct 31, 2020)

We may end up getting locked down again too at the rate things are going. Sorry to hear it Treacle.


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## MarciKS (Oct 31, 2020)

Waiting to see what the new governor will do. I was told they were thinking of shutting everything down except the essentials. They do that and they're gonna kill what's left of the local businesses here I believe.


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## -Oy- (Oct 31, 2020)

Yep - national lockdown from next Thursday. I'm all for it just sad they didn;t have the spheroids to do it properly and close the schools too.


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## Chet (Oct 31, 2020)

Lockdown and then what? The magic fairy waves her wand and it's over.


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## StarSong (Oct 31, 2020)

Chet said:


> Lockdown and then what? The magic fairy waves her wand and it's over.



Lockdown in an effort to  slow down the rate of contagion, particularly where hospitals are in great danger of being overwhelmed.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2020)

Chet said:


> Lockdown and then what? The magic fairy waves her wand and it's over.


Yes, at least that is what someone somewhere is counting on.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Lockdown in an effort to  slow down the rate of contagion, particularly where hospitals are in great danger of being overwhelmed.


Lockdown in England, Wales, and France.  We Americans prefer to tough it out and die.  After all, most of the dead are the over 60 age group.  If enough of us die, the economy will improve as we stop getting social security, Medicare, and Medicaid.  Thus saving our treasury a bunch of money.


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## hollydolly (Oct 31, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> *Lockdown in England, Wales, and France*.  We Americans prefer to tough it out and die.  After all, most of the dead are the over 60 age group.  If enough of us die, the economy will improve as we stop getting social security, Medicare, and Medicaid.  Thus saving our treasury a bunch of money.


Second full  Lockdown in England, Wales, Scotland, France & Germany.. and  second semi Lockdown in Spain, possibly just days away from a full lockdown again


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## Kadee (Oct 31, 2020)

Melbourne ( Victoria ) the state next to us was locked down for the ....Second time ....for 16 weeks
Residents were only allowed to go out ( 1 person per household ) for one hour a day for shopping .
No School..no hotels /.bars or cafes other than takeaway phone orders

They had a explosion of cases ....of up to 700 infections a day and a total of 900+ deaths during that period .

They have just opened up this weekend with next to no cases in the last Week so they have got on top of it buy being hard on Lockdown rules ( the residents are still required to wear masks in public )
South Aust where I’m has had 500. cases since March and about 5 deaths last time I heard anything
so we are operating as normal .,everything’s open ..apart from the Victorians being banned from entering S.A.


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## Tish (Oct 31, 2020)

So sorry to hear that Treacle, with any luck it might calm the curve.


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## Furryanimal (Oct 31, 2020)

Ours ends next weekend and we have already been told we will not be following England and do not need another one.
One small island and three different approaches...just doesn’t work.
The virus doesn’t disappear at the Welsh and Scottish Borders!
And if they work do why we keep having them?Once should be enough.


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## Warrigal (Nov 1, 2020)

Lockdown is what you have to implement if the population is not following less restrictive practices such and hand hygiene, social distancing and wearing masks. It is the end result of inadequate testing and contact tracing by the authorities. Success depends on all of the above.

Yesterday, for the first time since June 9, there has not been a single new positive COVID case in ALL OF AUSTRALIA. This does not mean that everyone should go silly and run unnecessary risks. It does mean that hard lockdown is no longer necessary.

Edit - I should have said "a single new positive COVID case from community transmission". We are still getting some positive results from people in quarantine after entering Australia from overseas.


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## Rosemarie (Nov 1, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Lockdown in England, Wales, and France.  We Americans prefer to tough it out and die.  After all, most of the dead are the over 60 age group.  If enough of us die, the economy will improve as we stop getting social security, Medicare, and Medicaid.  Thus saving our treasury a bunch of money.


Yes, this could be nature's way to control the population and cull the superfluous old folks who are no use to anyone.


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## Kadee (Nov 1, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Lockdown is what you have to implement if the population is not following less restrictive practices such and hand hygiene, social distancing and wearing masks. It is the end result of inadequate testing and contact tracing by the authorities. Success depends on all of the above.
> 
> Yesterday, for the first time since June 9, there has not been a single new positive COVID case in ALL OF AUSTRALIA. This does not mean that everyone should go silly and run unnecessary risks. It does mean that hard lockdown is no longer necessary.
> 
> Edit - I should have said "a single new positive COVID case from community transmission". We are still getting some positive results from people in quarantine after entering Australia from overseas.


Yes that was the only way Victoria got on top of the virus by  being very  harsh , I actually feel for the Victorian premier Daniel Andrews  @Warrigal
form my side of the border I think he did a great job with several issues he faced , however  it looks like it’s taken its toll on him as he looks like he’s lost quite a bit of weight


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## chic (Nov 1, 2020)

Wow! That's just terrible. BJ said it would last til Dec. 1. This is all so bad.


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## Warrigal (Nov 1, 2020)

Boris isn't trying to do much more than buy time. The lockdown is being imposed because the NHS is likely to be overwhelmed by the amount of sickness coming down the pipeline. Given the seriousness of the UK situation, Dec 1 might be way to early to lift the lockdown.


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## StarSong (Nov 1, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Lockdown is what you have to implement if the population is not following less restrictive practices such and hand hygiene, social distancing and wearing masks. It is the end result of inadequate testing and contact tracing by the authorities. Success depends on all of the above.


Exactly.  This puts me in mind of group punishments from younger years.  Remember when your whole class would miss recess or suffer other punishments because a few wiseguys thought they were adorable when they went over the line?  

Same thing here. If people would just follow the freaking guidelines the reopenings wouldn't have to go backwards. Just as when I was back in school, it's exhausting to be around people who won't behave themselves or think they're special cases.


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## oldman (Nov 1, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Boris isn't trying to do much more than buy time. The lockdown is being imposed because the NHS is likely to be overwhelmed by the amount of sickness coming down the pipeline. Given the seriousness of the UK situation, Dec 1 might be way to early to lift the lockdown.


Just curious. What actions would you take if you were the Prime Minister? I think making each person wear a mask before entering a public building would be a start. As for schools, it would depend on the state’s infection rate. I would suspend all sports, whether it be high school or professional. What good does it do to only wear a mask when on the sidelines in football?


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## oldman (Nov 1, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Exactly.  This puts me in mind of group punishments from younger years.  Remember when your whole class would miss recess or suffer other punishments because a few wiseguys thought they were adorable when they went over the line?
> 
> Same thing here. If people would just follow the freaking guidelines the reopenings wouldn't have to go backwards. Just as when I was back in school, it's exhausting to be around people who won't behave themselves or think they're special cases.


Are you thinking of a specific issue or situation?


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## StarSong (Nov 1, 2020)

oldman said:


> Are you thinking of a specific issue or situation?


Not sure what you're asking.  When I was a kid in school, if unidentified students damaged something, stole test papers, wrote inappropriate words on the blackboard, etc., the entire class was punished.  It was meant to be social pressure - since the innocents got the same punishment as the guilty, they'd resent the guilty parties (and classmates usually had a very good idea of who was guilty). 

Similar thing going on with refusals to follow safetly guidelines.

People who wear masks improperly or not at all, who won't socially distance, who plan and attend social gatherings, and who engage in other behavior deemed risky right now, are forcing the rest of us to be "punished" with new closures or delayed reopenings.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Not sure what you're asking.  When I was a kid in school, if unidentified students damaged something, stole test papers, wrote inappropriate words on the blackboard, etc., the entire class was punished.  It was meant to be social pressure - since the innocents got the same punishment as the guilty, they'd resent the guilty parties (and classmates usually had a very good idea of who was guilty).
> 
> Similar thing going on with refusals to follow safetly guidelines.
> 
> People who wear masks improperly or not at all, who won't socially distance, who plan and attend social gatherings, and who engage in other behavior deemed risky right now, are forcing the rest of us to be "punished" with new closures or delayed reopenings.


I see your point.

But sooner or later all the people who won’t wear masks will be gone because they will be dead.  Then we will see how effective masking is.  There are a couple places in the world that seem to have it controlled.  They had strict lockdowns and then masked up.  Time will tell.


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## Treacle (Nov 1, 2020)

Lockdown may extend beyond December 2nd

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54767118


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## Pinky (Nov 1, 2020)

My daughter is always impressed when she comes to our condo, and sees everyone masked .. not only in the building, but the neighbourhood.

She lives in a condo downtown, and many do not wear masks. My son-in-law is very much "in-your-face" with people not wearing masks. I just hope he doesn't choose to do this with the wrong person at the wrong time.


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## garyt1957 (Nov 1, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I see your point.
> 
> But sooner or later all the people who won’t wear masks will be gone because they will be dead.  Then we will see how effective masking is.  There are a couple places in the world that seem to have it controlled.  They had strict lockdowns and then masked up.  Time will tell.


Well, since the mortality rate is something like 1% , no all the non mask wearers won't be dead or anywhere close to it. But they might kill a few mask wearers .


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## Warrigal (Nov 1, 2020)

oldman said:


> Just curious. What actions would you take if you were the Prime Minister? I think making each person wear a mask before entering a public building would be a start. As for schools, it would depend on the state’s infection rate. I would suspend all sports, whether it be high school or professional. What good does it do to only wear a mask when on the sidelines in football?


Assuming you are referring to the UK PM and not the Australian one, I wouldn't make promises I could not keep. He has no way of knowing what the situation is be in 4 weeks times so why limit the lockdown to such a short time. I would seek the co-operation of other leaders to agree to a cohesive plan that would restrict unnecessary movement and beef up the COVID testing and contact tracing. Unless you know where the hot spots and clusters are you cannot get anything under control. Last but not least, I would anticipate vaccines coming on line and make sure the health authorities have all they need to get started ASAP.


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## oldman (Nov 1, 2020)

I t


StarSong said:


> Not sure what you're asking.  When I was a kid in school, if unidentified students damaged something, stole test papers, wrote inappropriate words on the blackboard, etc., the entire class was punished.  It was meant to be social pressure - since the innocents got the same punishment as the guilty, they'd resent the guilty parties (and classmates usually had a very good idea of who was guilty).
> 
> Similar thing going on with refusals to follow safetly guidelines.
> 
> People who wear masks improperly or not at all, who won't socially distance, who plan and attend social gatherings, and who engage in other behavior deemed risky right now, are forcing the rest of us to be "punished" with new closures or delayed reopenings.


I thought perhaps there was a situation that may have happened that was embedded in your mind. I know I reflect back when I read a specific post that reminds me of an event that relates to the post.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Assuming you are referring to the UK PM and not the Australian one, I wouldn't make promises I could not keep. He has no way of knowing what the situation is be in 4 weeks times so why limit the lockdown to such a short time. I would seek the co-operation of other leaders to agree to a cohesive plan that would restrict unnecessary movement and beef up the COVID testing and contact tracing. Unless you know where the hot spots and clusters are you cannot get anything under control. Last but not least, I would anticipate vaccines coming on line and make sure the health authorities have all they need to get started ASAP.


Will it be a vaccine for the Chinese, European, or Spanish virus?  I am not counting on vaccines.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Well, since the mortality rate is something like 1% , no all the non mask wearers won't be dead or anywhere close to it. But they might kill a few mask wearers .


Well, I don’t know or care about the “mortality rate”.  I think the mortality rate has nothing to do with it.  Give the rate of people who die who have worn masks vs the people who die that have not worn a mask.  That is a rate I would be interested in.


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## Lewkat (Nov 1, 2020)

Chet said:


> Lockdown and then what? The magic fairy waves her wand and it's over.


I guess it starts over there this week.  My governor is threatening my state with another lock down.  There's going to be a war soon if they don't stop stepping on the toes of our economy.


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## StarSong (Nov 1, 2020)

oldman said:


> I thought perhaps there was a situation that may have happened that was embedded in your mind. I know I reflect back when I read a specific post that reminds me of an event that relates to the post.


No, I was speaking in general terms.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> I guess it starts over there this week.  My governor is threatening my state with another lock down.  There's going to be a war soon if they don't stop stepping on the toes of our economy.


What do you mean a war?

You mean, similar to the looters, where people fight each other with guns, set fire to buildings, destroy cities, and people in the name of the economy.  . Those would be incredible stupid people.  Because the economy of that city, with its burnt out destroyed buildings and dead populace would then have no economy.

 But, as we all know, the USofA, is filled with incredible stupid people.


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## AnnieA (Nov 1, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Well, since the mortality rate is something like 1% , no all the non mask wearers won't be dead or anywhere close to it. But they might kill a few mask wearers .



What's the date on the 1% rate?  It's ever shifting, thankfully down these days.  NPR reported a couple of weeks ago on several studies showing a sharp drop in mortality rates. As doctors and scientists learn more, the mortality rate numbers should continue to drop.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> What's the date on the 1% rate?  It's ever shifting, thankfully down these days.  NPR reported a couple of weeks ago on several studies showing a sharp drop in mortality rates. As doctors and scientists learn more, the mortality rate numbers should continue to drop.


The mortality rates, and death count, is behind.  But the rate is based on the entire population of the USA.  The rate just based on NY would be much higher.  But what does it matter?  Over 230,000 have now died.  You either mourn for the deaths or you don’t.


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## AnnieA (Nov 1, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> The mortality rates, and death count, is behind.  But the rate is based on the entire population of the USA.  The rate just based on NY would be much higher.  But what does it matter?  Over 230,000 have now died.  You either mourn for the death or you don’t.



I don't understand your "But what does it matter" question in context of the other parts of your post?   What I'm getting out of what you typed is that you're saying it doesn't matter that mortality rates are falling but I think I must be misreading something...


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> I don't understand your "But what does it matter" question in context of the other parts of your post?   What I'm getting out of what you typed is that you're saying it doesn't matter that mortality rates are falling but I think I must be misreading something...


No that’s what I mean.  The virus is going crazy and the rate is wrong IMO.  When it is all over then we will know what the actual rate was.


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## chic (Nov 1, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> I guess it starts over there this week.  My governor is threatening my state with another lock down.  There's going to be a war soon if they don't stop steppintg on the toes of our economy.



There's going to be a war here anyway so it's best to start preparing for it. 

But I feel so sad for everyone in the UK who have been through so much for longer than we have in the US and all for nothing and right before the holidays too.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

chic said:


> There's going to be a war here anyway so it's best to start preparing for it.
> 
> But I feel so sad for everyone in the UK who have been through so much for longer than we have in the US and all for nothing and right before the holidays too.


There will not be a war, unrest, but a war no.


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## AnnieA (Nov 1, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> No that’s what I mean.  The virus is going crazy and the rate is wrong IMO.  When it is all over then we will know what the actual rate was.



It takes years in hindsight to determine actual rates.  However, the studies proving the mortality rate is decreasing sharply linked in this NPR report aren't to be discounted. Just one little thing like learning about Covid's uniquely deadly silent hypoxia discussed in another thread on the forum is a huge win in the battle to save lives.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> It takes years in hindsight to determine actual rates.  However, the studies proving the mortality rate is decreasing sharply linked in this NPR report aren't to be discounted. Just one little thing like learning about Covid's uniquely deadly silent hypoxia discussed in another thread on the forum is a huge win in the battle lives.


Well, if it takes too many years I certainly won’t be around and will care even less then.


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## Lewkat (Nov 1, 2020)

I did read one piece a few weeks ago opining that this was thought to be more of  a circulatory disease as opposed to a respiratory one and that red blood cells were being decimated by it.  This would definitely cause hypoxia.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> I did read one piece a few weeks ago opining that this was thought to be more of  a circulatory disease as opposed to a respiratory one and that red blood cells were being decimated by it.  This would definitely cause hypoxia.


Well I have red blood cell cancer so if I get it, hmm, actually if I get it, I’m dead.


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## Warrigal (Nov 1, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Will it be a vaccine for the Chinese, European, or Spanish virus?  I am not counting on vaccines.


We have a couple in the pipeline and options on a couple from the UK.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> We have a couple in the pipeline and options on a couple from the UK.


We have some in the pipeline as well but will one vaccine that all the versions or, like the flu, will you need a shot for each type ?


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## Warrigal (Nov 1, 2020)

No idea but I submit to the 'flu shot each year now that I am in my late 70s. I would do the same if a COVID vaccine becomes available.

I've always been vaccinated against illnesses that could be deadly. The earliest that I can remember was for tuberculosis because my maternal grandfather became infectious late in life. Apparently he had had TB as a young man, recovered without treatment but the pathogen never left his body. It remained in the scars in his lungs only to breakout when, in old age, his immune system weakened. 

Throughout the years I've had shots for polio, diptheria, tenanus, rubella, polio, hepatitis and even yellow fever. Most recently I've asked for and received a shot for shingles and after the birth of my first great grandchild I was vaccinated against whooping cough (pertussis) to keep him safe.

I won't shrink from a COVID vaccine, even an imperfect one, when something becomes available.


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## todalake (Nov 2, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, I don’t know or care about the “mortality rate”.  I think the mortality rate has nothing to do with it.  Give the rate of people who die who have worn masks vs the people who die that have not worn a mask.  That is a rate I would be interested in.


Yes people die that are wearing a mask,  BUT they caught it from someone not wearing a mask.   Very very low rate of transmission of virus if both wearing a mask.   THAT is reason for everybody wearing a mask.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 2, 2020)

More lockdown and restrictions coming in Europe as the virus increases its hold on those populations.


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## chic (Nov 2, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> More lockdown and restrictions coming in Europe as the virus increases its hold on those populations.



Such as???


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## Don M. (Nov 2, 2020)

The news is saying that several European nations are increasing their restrictions on public gatherings, and shutting down bars and restaurants, etc.  I expect we will see a lot of the same, here in the US, as Winter and the Holidays bring more people together.


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## charry (Nov 2, 2020)




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## Furryanimal (Nov 2, 2020)

From next Monday in Wales....November 9th

There will be no travel restrictions within Wales.We can only travel to England with a valid excuse.But foreign travel banned.
All pubs,shops,restaurants ,hotels etc will be open.
Groups of up to fifteen can gather for indoor activity and thirty outdoors.
Two households can form bubbles(although I won’t be in one!)
But mask wearing on transport and in shops remains.Not good for we glasses wearers.
But concert venues and community rugby still off limits.And still no crowds at pro sport.But there will be another announcement in two weeks,
So for the first time since these ridiculous restrictions started we will be in the freeist part of the UK.
And by the way nothing has changed during our lockdown showing how pointless it was.
And if you want to pop over the border you will have no argument from me.
I’m going places next week.....everyday!
See -the virus behaves differently at the border!


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## Rosemarie (Nov 3, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Exactly.  This puts me in mind of group punishments from younger years.  Remember when your whole class would miss recess or suffer other punishments because a few wiseguys thought they were adorable when they went over the line?
> 
> Same thing here. If people would just follow the freaking guidelines the reopenings wouldn't have to go backwards. Just as when I was back in school, it's exhausting to be around people who won't behave themselves or think they're special cases.


It's pure selfishness. It also reflects the modern trend in upbringing...people are not used to obeying rules.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 3, 2020)

Furryanimal said:


> From next Monday in Wales....November 9th
> 
> There will be no travel restrictions within Wales.We can only travel to England with a valid excuse.But foreign travel banned.
> All pubs,shops,restaurants ,hotels etc will be open.
> ...


See, you survived.  Good nothing changed, the virus and deaths in Wales did not increase.  Go out, have fun.  We, Americans will just keep dying.


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## fmdog44 (Nov 3, 2020)

Chet said:


> Lockdown and then what? The magic fairy waves her wand and it's over.


The medical workers desperately need a break form the chaos and if a national lockdown will provide one I'm all for it.


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## StarSong (Nov 3, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> The medical workers desperately need a break form the chaos and if a national lockdown will provide one I'm all for it.


You make a very good point, FM.  Thanks for the reminder.


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