# apology to millions



## d0ug (Jul 20, 2014)

An apology to millions of man who died unnecessarily given by the person who invented the PSA screening test

  Every year, more than a million men undergo painful needle biopsies for prostate cancer, and upward of 100,000 have radical prostatectomy’s, resulting in incontinence and impotence. But the shocking fact is that most of these men would never have died from this common form of cancer, which frequently grows so slowly that it never even leaves the prostate. How did we get to a point where so many unnecessary tests and surgeries are being done? In The Great Prostate Hoax, Richard J. Ablin exposes how a discovery he made in 1970, the prostate-specific antigen (PSA), was co-opted by the pharmaceutical industry into a multibillion-dollar   business. He shows how his discovery of PSA was never meant to be used for screening prostate cancer, and yet nonetheless the test was patented and eventually approved by the FDA in 1994. Now, doctors and victims are beginning to speak out about the harm of the test, and beginning to search for a true prostate cancer-specific marker.


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## hollydolly (Jul 20, 2014)

Sounds horrifying, but not surprising when a pharma company get their hands on a drug and want to make millions from it. Do you have a link to this story Doug?


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 20, 2014)

I agree d0ug, I've heard the same over the years.  My husband had one PSA test many years ago, which was in normal range.  However, he doesn't intend to continue with invasive and potentially harmful and inaccurate testing in the future.  I understand that one in seven men in America will develop prostate cancer, but many will die with the cancer, not from it....http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a.../conventional-prostate-cancer-treatments.aspx


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## d0ug (Jul 20, 2014)

Here is two links to the thread.
http://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/health/new-thinking-about-prostate-cancer-20140220

http://nypost.com/2014/03/01/why-the-prostate-cancer-test-is-useless/
and of course there is his book


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## Pappy (Jul 20, 2014)

Unless I'm mistaken, my PSA test comprised of a urine sample. What's invasive about this? I'm confused....


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## d0ug (Jul 20, 2014)

*A Prostate-Specific Antigen* (*PSA*) *test* is a blood screening *test* for prostate cancer in men. They use that test as a reason to do many other tests and it is not reliable and even the person who invented it says so.


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## Pappy (Jul 20, 2014)

Okay, so at my age and with enlarged prostate, am I to ignore all these test and take my chances?


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## d0ug (Jul 20, 2014)

Just ignore the tests that don't work and are faulty like the PSA.
Hear is a little more info .http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/can...e-test-itself/
A enlarged prostate can be handled with herbs like Saw palmetto, pumpkin seed, and minerals like selenium. these are much safer.


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## Honey (Jul 20, 2014)

if I was a guy I'd be checking out all the unbiased information available on the internet before making a decision


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 20, 2014)

Pappy said:


> Okay, so at my age and with enlarged prostate, am I to ignore all these test and take my chances?



Pappy, all these decisions are very personal, and there are no experts here to give solid answers.  I've been giving my husband Saw Palmetto supplements for years now, switching out with Beta Sitosterol supplements , http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/jun2005_report_prostate_01.htm as a preventative to enlarged prostate issues.

Neither of us go in for many recommended tests, as we acknowledge that the medical profession runs on profits, along with the pharmaceutical companies who often promote prescription drugs which have side effects worse than the disease itself.  Even if diagnosed with cancer, we'd weigh the pros and cons before submitting to surgery, radiation, chemo, etc.

An enlarged prostate is very common for men in our age group, as Honey suggested, just be open to all information from all sides, and make the decision that's right for you.


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## Lon (Jul 20, 2014)

A PSA test that I had in year 1998 in its self was no big deal but the velocity of increase from the prior year caused my Primary Care doc to send me to a Urologist who then set me up for a biopsy. A PSA test itself is never an indication of Prostate Cancer, but my biopsy results revealed a highly agressive tumor with a Gleason Score of 8. If untreated, it could spread from the Prostate Gland.In addition to the PSA test and Gleason Biopsy, the Rectal Digital Exam performed by the Urologist enabled him to feel what he described as a nail on the gland itself. There was absolutely no question that I had Prostate Cancer. I looked into all the options from Radio Active Seed Implantation, Plain old Radiation. Watch & Wait (I would be dead now if I had chosen this one) Radical Prostatectomy. I had second and third opinions to confirm initial diagnosis. I went with the Radical Prostatectomy and had it done at Stanford University with a Nerve Sparing Procedure.Results?? I was completely continent in two weeks post surgery and had successful ****** intercourse in two months post surgery. I was age 58 at the time and am now just turned 80 on the 12th of this month. I am not as good as I once was, but I am as good ONCE as I ever was. My father who died at 95 was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer when he was 90 years old and because testing indicated it was mild.He chose to do nothing and died quitely in his sleep. Most all men in their later years 80 to 95 when a autopsy is performed will show they have have Prostate Cancer. All of the negative reporting on PSA tests disturbs me because it was the first step in a very successful outcome for me.Here again it's not the test itself, but the velocity of increase score from one test year to the next. Many things besides cancer can cause a high PSA score.


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## Denise1952 (Jul 20, 2014)

I like what many of you said, but especially Honey said my opinion as well.  Research, don't just assume a doctor is right.  I never will again I hope.  I honestly feel there is a good chance I could have avoided having a pacemaker.  I've been researching now, and like SB, it's personal decision, but the more knowledge I can gain about thing, the better choices I can make for myself.  I'm walking around with two, unnecessary wires/leads in my body for maybe the rest of my life because doctors find them to hard to remove when replaced.  So they just leave them in there, Ok, I'm off topic so I'll stop.  I just hope we all look at ALL the options, and if a doctor doesn't have one, look for them on your own first.


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## oldman (Jul 24, 2014)

On the other hand, I have a Brother-In-Law that had a poor reading on his PSA like, 7.1 and then went for a biopsy only to find out the he did have prostate cancer. He had seeds (?) inserted into his prostate and then some radiation. Today, his prostate is once again normal.

So, my thinking is that the PSA may not be the sole identifier for prostate cancer, but can be used as another tool for discovery.


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## Pappy (Jul 24, 2014)

Basically, that's all the test is. A tool for discovery. My count is low but I have an enlarged prostate, of which Flomax aids in reducing size. Only thing now is, it takes me all night long to do what I use to do all night long.


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## kcvet (Jul 24, 2014)

I have the PSA done every year. plus if  your over 50 the finger up the kazoo


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## Pappy (Jul 24, 2014)

Ah, the old rubber glove trick.


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## kcvet (Jul 24, 2014)

Pappy said:


> Ah, the old rubber glove trick.



there's been times i felt like saying ok its your turn


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## Lon (Jul 24, 2014)

Pappy said:


> Ah, the old rubber glove trick.



What rubber glove? layful:


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## kcvet (Jul 24, 2014)

Lon said:


> What rubber glove? layful:


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## SifuPhil (Jul 24, 2014)

Agreed that it's a personal thing. In my case I haven't had a test nor even been to a doctor in over 35 years. 

Ignorance is wonderful.


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## kcvet (Jul 24, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Agreed that it's a personal thing. In my case I haven't had a test nor even been to a doctor in over 35 years.
> 
> Ignorance is wonderful.



you really should have the PSA exam. its a simple blood test. nothing to it. IMO


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## SifuPhil (Jul 24, 2014)

kcvet said:


> you really should have the PSA exam. its a simple blood test. nothing to it. IMO



Yeah, but see, that would mean getting "Into The System", something I'm striving to put off for my entire life if at all possible.

A simple little blood test, yes. Then they discover that in addition to having an enlarged prostate I also have high cholesterol, low blood lipids, over-stimulated liver, under-stimulated thyroid and a left-side kidney that's slowly dissolving, along with cranial aberrations and a belly button that has the gout.

THEN the treatments begin - the pills, oh, those wonderful pills! And the office visits, and the specialists, and the extended hospital stays, and the loss of dignity and my bank account ... 

Thanks, but I think I'll stay ignorant.


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## kcvet (Jul 24, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Yeah, but see, that would mean getting "Into The System", something I'm striving to put off for my entire life if at all possible.
> 
> A simple little blood test, yes. Then they discover that in addition to having an enlarged prostate I also have high cholesterol, low blood lipids, over-stimulated liver, under-stimulated thyroid and a left-side kidney that's slowly dissolving, along with cranial aberrations and a belly button that has the gout.
> 
> ...



well that's your choice. all i have is the PSA. nothing else.


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## SifuPhil (Jul 24, 2014)

kcvet said:


> well that's your choice. all i have is the PSA. nothing else.



And if the results of the test indicated problems, you would try to have them taken care of, right?


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## d0ug (Jul 24, 2014)

The test has been proved faulty and that is from the man who invented the test. The doctors are using it as a scare technique to get you to the next test and that one can kill you.
I agree with SifuPhil if it is not broke why check it with a faulty test.  http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/can...e-test-itself/


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## kcvet (Jul 24, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> And if the results of the test indicated problems, you would try to have them taken care of, right?



only if i want to live


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## SifuPhil (Jul 24, 2014)

kcvet said:


> only if i want to live



But what about _quality_ of life? 

Maybe it's just because I've known and seen too many people end up existing instead of living by getting all these tests. Admittedly I'm not up on the PSA but I would imagine that, given Lon's experience, one thing leads to another in terms of tests, and I wouldn't have the patience for them all.

I'm currently watching my roommate go through The System and it's pathetic and painful to watch. She's on 20 or so meds, they're scheduling her for endless rounds of tests, and it seems the doctors like to play a game of fighting each others diagnoses. One doc strokes his chin, says "Hmmm ..." and sends her two towns away (on a bus, in 90-degree weather) to get Test A. The following day another doc twiddles his fingers and decides she needs Test B, one town away in the opposite direction, at a time when the buses don't even run.

Today she had a test that involved an iodine tracer. She's had bad reactions to iodine in the past and didn't want the test. When I asked her why she didn't refuse it, she just shrugged her shoulders and said "That would mess everything up". So instead, she almost fainted on the way home.

No consideration for the patient's condition, only that she be able to get to the test location. 

Then when they get the results, more often than not they STILL waver and hem and haw and say "_We're not really sure, it could be this or it could be that_", and what do they do then? More tests, not really for medical reasons but mainly to CTA.

And if by some miracle you get to the real treatment stage, after your humiliation and frustration has reached an all-time high, then you'll find out that they STILL hedge their bets and that there are far more side-effects than they let on. You end up living the rest of your life on pills and office visits for "follow ups".

I know that sometimes it all works out, but the way_ I've_ seen it the odds are better at Atlantic City than in the medical domain.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 24, 2014)

I'm of the same mindset as Phil and Doug.  I have little respect for these tests, and having them does not always determine if you live or die.  I've done without almost all the "preventative" annual testings that line the pockets of the medical community and the pharmaceutical companies.  Having a high score on a PSA test, doesn't mean you're going to die...of course they have pen in hand to write you refillable prescription medications to cope with your horrible problem. 

 An enlarged prostate, and even prostate cancer in a man's old age, does not mean death for him, and it doesn't mandate repetitive tests and pharmaceutical drugs for the rest of his life to deal with it.  It's a very common and natural occurrence and is rarely lethal in itself.  If that's what you feel comfortable with, then by all means, go that route...but for others, make your own personal decisions on your health and living in your golden years.


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## kcvet (Jul 24, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> But what about _quality_ of life?
> 
> Maybe it's just because I've known and seen too many people end up existing instead of living by getting all these tests. Admittedly I'm not up on the PSA but I would imagine that, given Lon's experience, one thing leads to another in terms of tests, and I wouldn't have the patience for them all.
> 
> ...



ok ok you've talked yourself out of it.


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## d0ug (Jul 25, 2014)

A video well  worth seeing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k8MbDEb1qA


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