# Would you pay for this? Why we need reparations for Black Americans.



## Robert59 (Jun 7, 2020)

Central to the idea of the American Dream lies an assumption that we all have an equal opportunity to generate the kind of wealth that brings meaning to the words “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” boldly penned in the Declaration of Independence. The American Dream portends that with hard work, a person can own a home, start a business, and grow a nest egg for generations to draw upon. 

https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/bigideas/why-we-need-reparations-for-black-americans/


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 7, 2020)

IMO reparation is a divisive idea.

I believe that all Americans should have an opportunity to work and achieve the American Dream.

If Americans of any race need a hand up to get an education or to learn a trade we should do what we can to help with that in a way that is meaningful to the individual.  

Some folks may need a job or work-study program to help support themselves or even a more structured program like Job Core to help them get a start.

Another option available to most young people is a period of military/national service that provides many benefits to help with education and training.

The path to the American Dream may be bumpy but it still exists if you are willing to work at it.


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

I have a stupid question. I see a lot of black folks with vehicles and clothes that are way finer than anything I could personally afford. Given that, why should we have to help them get where they need to go? Nobody helped us. Most of us were under the time of "if you couldn't afford it you didn't finance it."


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## C'est Moi (Jun 7, 2020)

No one living was a slave.   No one living owned a slave.  Reparations for what?   There are so many failed social programs already; why burden people with this crap?  If you want a good life, work for it... like I did.


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

Don't get me wrong...I think it's great that they want everyone to have equal opportunities at education and jobs but there's no reason they can't work for it or get scholarships just like anyone else. They're still people trying to make it in this world just like you and me. I never got any handouts.


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## Duster (Jun 7, 2020)

I won't vote for anyone who makes such pie in the sky promises, either.


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## fmdog44 (Jun 7, 2020)

Worst idea ever. It must never happen. Why not give money to all people that come here illegally only to be sent back depriving them of the chance to prosper here in America? Minorities work as hard as anyone. They don't seek free money rather opportunity to make money. Why not go back and find the family names of the_ sellers_ of Africans?


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## Manatee (Jun 7, 2020)

I seriously doubt that very many blacks in Africa are better off than their American distant cousins.  The ones in America are better off for being here regardless of how they came to be here.  If this country is so intolerable, they are free to leave.


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## Don M. (Jun 7, 2020)

IMO, unless a person is physically or mentally disabled, the life they lead is largely determined by their own work ethic and personal decisions.


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

Exactly. There's no reason they can't get out there and support themselves in whatever fashion they are afforded in life. If they happen to come from a low income family and that ends up being their lot in life, they need to work it out just like anyone else instead of whining about it.


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## CarolfromTX (Jun 8, 2020)

Robert, who's paying you to stir the pot? All of your posts I've seen so far are divisive and controversial. I think your avatar speaks volumes.


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## Old&InTheWay (Jun 8, 2020)

My first thought is how in the world can this be discussed given the site's "no politics" rule. 
Let's see, I'll give it a try. 
According to the 1619 project, part of the curriculum in schools in New England, slavery started in American in 1619 and ended in 1865, after the War Between the States ended and two years after Lincoln's EP. 
The idea is the governments responsible for the slavery pay. Ok, fine
The US wasn't a country and recognized as such until 1783.....that is roughly 72% of the years in questions.
This was England. So, right off the bat 3/4ths of the bill should be sent to Parliament. Let's see how that goes.

By 1783, slavery, which DID exist in the North previously, was virtually non-existent. So, maybe just hit up those with relatives south of Mason-Dixon. And since the narrative taught now in schools is that the War Between the States was just about slavery, then that MUST mean that roughly 400,000 men from the North gave their very lives to free the slaves. Surely, relatives of those brave men can be spared this new tax.


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## rgp (Jun 8, 2020)

Don M. said:


> IMO, unless a person is physically or mentally disabled, the life they lead is largely determined by their own work ethic and personal decisions.




  I agree !!


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## gamboolman (Jun 8, 2020)

We would not willingly support or pay for Reparations.  For all the reasons folks have stated in the above thread, and many more based on our own opinions and beliefs.

ms gamboolgal and I have just repatriated back to Texas after working and living in Africa for 17 years for megaoilcorp.  

Our experiences and perspectives we gained oversea's in Equatorial Guinea and Nigeria have reinforced that to us Reparations is nothing more than a political ploy to buy votes.  

We have and will continue to  lobby our elected officials to not pursue Reparations.

But that's just us......  Lifes A Dance And You Learn As You Go.....

gamboolman....


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## JaniceM (Jun 8, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> Central to the idea of the American Dream lies an assumption that we all have an equal opportunity to generate the kind of wealth that brings meaning to the words “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” boldly penned in the Declaration of Independence. The American Dream portends that with hard work, a person can own a home, start a business, and grow a nest egg for generations to draw upon.
> 
> https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/bigideas/why-we-need-reparations-for-black-americans/


Well, I'm one of those "descendants of enslaved Black Americans," and I do not agree with "reparations for slavery."  
This is the way I look at it:  how many generations would I need to go back in my family history to find individuals who were affected by it?  (and yes, I know the answer to that.)  Other than occasional asinine remarks about my mixed heritage, I personally have never suffered for what my enslaved ancestors went through-  so I do not believe I deserve any 'reparations' for it.  

As for the second part mentioned in the article-  "anti-Black policies"-  I have the same viewpoint.  However, this is not necessarily true for everybody.  In recent years, I've known individuals in my age group who grew up in areas where schools were still segregated, the Civil Rights conflicts were a part of everyday life, etc., and those experiences have had lifelong effects on the individuals.  They certainly deserve something to make up for it.  

However, what some individuals have said is, in my opinion, accurate.  While not everyone is dealt a fair hand in life, and some environments are worse than others, personal choice is often more of a factor than some care to admit.  If a person 'chooses' to drop out of school, make a living by dealing drugs, etc., they shouldn't have the luxury of claiming it's because of their race.


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## Knight (Jun 8, 2020)

I'm for reparations for all  in slave labor now.  Being a decedent no way should they benefit.


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## Rosemarie (Jun 8, 2020)

It's not about wealth. It's about all being treated equally, whatever your colour. Don't forget, people handle money differently. Some are clever and make money work for them. Others spend money like water. So if everyone were given the same sum of money when they left school, some would use it to make a success of their lives, others would waste it.


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## Knight (Jun 8, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> It's not about wealth. It's about all being treated equally, whatever your colour. Don't forget, people handle money differently. Some are clever and make money work for them. Others spend money like water. So if everyone were given the same sum of money when they left school, some would use it to make a success of their lives, others would waste it.


That makes sense. Combine that with the amount of people that immigrated to America both legally & illegally that have started a business or work hard to provide for themselves & their families. They are successful & not looking for something free.


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## Been There (Jun 8, 2020)

Originally, the Democrats were proposing something like $360,000.00 to each black American. This would add something like $14-16 trillion to the national debt. Now, the latest has been that they may look for about $40-60,000 per black person and that would add about $2 trillion. 

I heard one person say "I am not responsible for the sins that my forefathers did and I don't think that I owe anyone a dime." But, that's not the theory behind this. The people backing this say they did a research and the average white white family is worth about $800,000.00 more than the average black family. 

I don't know where this all coming from, but some people are saying that since we gave the Japanese money as reparations, why shouldn't the black people receive something?


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## JimBob1952 (Jun 8, 2020)

Been There said:


> Originally, the Democrats were proposing something like $360,000.00 to each black American. This would add something like $14-16 trillion to the national debt. Now, the latest has been that they may look for about $40-60,000 per black person and that would add about $2 trillion.
> 
> I heard one person say "I am not responsible for the sins that my forefathers did and I don't think that I owe anyone a dime." But, that's not the theory behind this. The people backing this say they did a research and the average white white family is worth about $800,000.00 more than the average black family.
> 
> I don't know where this all coming from, but some people are saying that since we gave the Japanese money as reparations, why shouldn't the black people receive something?



The median household in the U.S. is worth $97,000 so I'm not sure where you got your "average white family" number.  Most people, black or white, say they would have a hard time scraping up $500 for an unforeseen expense.

*Search Results*
*Featured snippet from the web*
The median net *worth* of the *average* U.S. *household* is $97,300. Median is the middle point where half the households have more and half have less. Under 35: Median net *worth*: $11,100 (*average* net *worth*: $76,200).Jan 23, 2020


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## JimBob1952 (Jun 8, 2020)

I'm not for reparations per se.  But I think we should consider the potential benefits of a Marshall plan type operation to help US cities.  See if spending big money helps.  Nothing we have tried has worked very well so far.


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## JaniceM (Jun 8, 2020)

Been There said:


> Originally, the Democrats were proposing something like $360,000.00 to each black American. This would add something like $14-16 trillion to the national debt. Now, the latest has been that they may look for about $40-60,000 per black person and that would add about $2 trillion.
> 
> I heard one person say "I am not responsible for the sins that my forefathers did and I don't think that I owe anyone a dime." But, that's not the theory behind this. The people backing this say they did a research and the average white white family is worth about $800,000.00 more than the average black family.
> 
> I don't know where this all coming from, but some people are saying that since we gave the Japanese money as reparations, why shouldn't the black people receive something?


I still don't agree with it.  But with the info you presented here, that approach would probably lead to a huge mess over 'who is actually "Black"?'  Would it go by skin color, proof of ancestry, or something else?  Yup, it could get complicated.


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## Gaer (Jun 8, 2020)

Old&InTheWay said:


> My first thought is how in the world can this be discussed given the site's "no politics" rule.
> Let's see, I'll give it a try.
> According to the 1619 project, part of the curriculum in schools in New England, slavery started in American in 1619 and ended in 1865, after the War Between the States ended and two years after Lincoln's EP.
> The idea is the governments responsible for the slavery pay. Ok, fine
> ...


Ah!  TRUTH and FACTS instead of emotional suppositions.  This is novel and appreciated!


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## RadishRose (Jun 8, 2020)

No. My ancestors did nothing to blacks and weren't even in this country until after the turn of the century.


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## JB in SC (Jun 8, 2020)

Throwing money at any issue hasn‘t worked very well in the past. Giving people more opportunities, training, and jobs seems to be a reasonable path for upward mobility.  Many folks of all races appear to do quite well being self employed, working long hours, giving up the “now” for the future. Others, no matter the race, head in a downward spiral. The single biggest disadvantage (socially and economically) for anyone is being a parent at a young age with no spouse, no education, no job.


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## sehr alt (Jun 8, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Worst idea ever. It must never happen. Why not give money to all people that come here illegally only to be sent back depriving them of the chance to prosper here in America? Minorities work as hard as anyone. They don't seek free money rather opportunity to make money. Why not go back and find the family names of the_ sellers_ of Africans?


Reparations is a bad idea. Being the descendant of both slaves and slave owners, how do we deal with people like Michelle Obama, who is typical of perhaps  hundreds of thousands of people ? No reparations !


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## Don M. (Jun 8, 2020)

My grandparents came to the US, through Ellis Island, back in the early 1900's.  My wife came to the US in 1965.  No one in either of our families have ever had anything to do with any kind of "slave labor", nor has anyone in our families ever received any "government aid".  What we have, we have earned through our own hard work.  I would "mutiny" if the government ever tried to penalize us for actions others took centuries ago.


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## Gaer (Jun 8, 2020)

Don M. said:


> My grandparents came to the US, through Ellis Island, back in the early 1900's.  My wife came to the US in 1965.  No one in either of our families have ever had anything to do with any kind of "slave labor", nor has anyone in our families ever received any "government aid".  What we have, we have earned through our own hard work.  I would "mutiny" if the government ever tried to penalize us for actions others took centuries ago.


Accept no financial aid, Stand tall and on your own two feet. Being independent. Standing up to fight for your beliefs and your convictions.  
This is the mark of a true man!


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## raybar (Jun 8, 2020)

Here's one black man's view. 
Larry Elder, a black syndicated radio talk show host, thinks reparations is a "lame duck brain dead idea."
Posted 28 June 2019.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 8, 2020)

I doubt that every one of my ancestors only wore the royal purple. Supposedly one of my ancestors was hung for horse theft. Somehow I have the distinct impression my folk weren't invited to the ball. So most probably, they were owned, rather than owning. But that was centuries ago, the pain has dulled over time. Blacks didn't have such a mellowing of time. I can remember when "N"s couldn't get breakfast at Denny's. I'm white, so I don't know what outright racial discrimination feels like.  In our society, when someone wrongs another, we settle it in court. with money- the reparations. I really don't think money is appropriate. Rather than make blacks more estranged with a few dollars in "reparations", maybe really try to eliminate racial discrimination.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 8, 2020)

To be fair. Rep. Conyer, a black Democratic member of Congress did each term introduce a bill for "reparations", until he recently passed away. Other than a pure gesture, the bill was never seriously considered. Congressman usually submit this type of bill for political reasons, knowing that nothing will come from it. There's no check in the mail.


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## Robert59 (Jun 8, 2020)

Some more news from a Black website talking about the Black's spending. 
https://blackmeninamerica.com/updated-how-do-black-people-spend-their-money-3/


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## doat (Jun 9, 2020)

And than what will be there next demand?  No mas!


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 9, 2020)

To get reparations you would need to get them from the people who wronged your ancestral relatives originally; not the US government or it’s current population.  That would mean the African chiefs who sold their tribe members into slavery, the British and others who raided the African coasts, which might have included early Americans.

While this might be possible in some cases probably not in others.  Also what about the indentured servants?  Mostly while people, mostly young children, do their families get reparations as well?  What about people who worked for room and board, do they get reparations?

What about WOMEN, who all our lives have gotten less pay then men?  Can we get reparations?  I have splash of American Indian blood from a tribe that has died out.  Can I get reparations?  Life is unfair.  

Maybe people of color need to learn this lesson about life, life itself, is color blind.


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## StarSong (Jun 9, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Maybe people of color need to learn this lesson about life, life itself, is color blind.


Not in this country it isn't.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 9, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Not in this country it isn't.


LIFE is, you know, life itself breathing, eating, stuff like that.  I’ve never seen a piece of food run from a person of color or a person of non color.  I am not talking about the circumstances surrounding living.  You have misread what I wrote.


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## StarSong (Jun 9, 2020)

I didn't misread a thing.  

Life is indeed unfair. People are born into all kinds of difficult situations, including mental and physical disabilities, economic hardships, violent families, racial or religious prejudice, unequal education and employment opportunities, and substandard housing. 

Perhaps we should collectively turn a blind eye to all people in the above situations. There's no food running away from them and they're breathing. The rest of it is, LIFE, you know. 

So your mantra is: I got mine baby - it's up to you to figure out how to go get yours!


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 9, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I didn't misread a thing.
> 
> Life is indeed unfair. People are born into all kinds of difficult situations, including mental and physical disabilities, economic hardships, violent families, racial or religious prejudice, unequal education and employment opportunities, and substandard housing.
> 
> ...


Well, I have not got mine yet.  But yes, that is the mantra of most Americans.  I would agree with that.  IMO, you don’t understand what I am saying in that post, but let’s agree to disagree.  

As for difficult situations, hmm, I might be familiar with those.  . Violent family-check, mental and physical difficulties-check, economic hardship-check, religious prejudice-check, unequal education, hmm no check, less employment opportunities-check, and I don’t want to forget substandard housing-check.  WOW, and to think, I have white skin.


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## sehr alt (Sep 3, 2020)

gamboolman said:


> We would not willingly support or pay for Reparations.  For all the reasons folks have stated in the above thread, and many more based on our own opinions and beliefs.
> 
> ms gamboolgal and I have just repatriated back to Texas after working and living in Africa for 17 years for megaoilcorp.
> 
> ...


The idea of reparations is badly flawed. Does Michelle Obama get some money thru this program ? She's both the descendant of slaves and of slave owners.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 4, 2020)

Isn't the trillions given to the poor for decades past enough? At what point to blacks stop asking for money and start asking why they are poor still after witnessing the millions of immigrants that are not poor and they are still first and second generations?


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## Sunny (Sep 4, 2020)

sehr alt said:


> The idea of reparations is badly flawed. Does Michelle Obama get some money thru this program ? She's both the descendant of slaves and of slave owners.



Serh alt, you seem to be hung up on Michelle Obama, as you've growlingly referred to her twice in this thread. What is there about her that bothers you so much?  The fact that she is a Black woman who has achieved success beyond most of our wildest dreams?

So what if she was a part of the population that received reparations?  She'd probably be one of about 38 million people to receive some cash. And she'd be part of the .00001% who didn't desperately need it, as most do, largely due to past and present racial discrimination.

She would probably donate the money to a worthy cause.

Many people recently received a check from the federal government to help them get through the coronavirus. Did anyone raise an issue about whether each and every one of those people "deserved" to get that check?  There are always some beneficiaries who don't actually need the help. So what?  How about the millions who do?

Throwing Michelle Obama into this discussion is, IMO a stupid argument.


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 4, 2020)

There are two ways to look at reparations.  

One is in the form of sums paid to individual African-Americans.  I don't think this is a good idea; it is unjust and unworkable, and it wouldn't receive broad support. 

The other would be a Marshall Plan - type program aimed at addressing the terrible disparities in wealth, education, health and other measures of well-being, many of which trace back to slavery and Jim Crow.  This would involve spending hundreds of billions of dollars on better schools, job creation and training, housing, preventive health initiatives, and lots of other areas (including making sure that first time criminal offenders get a real second chance at turning themselves around).  Call it reparations if you wish.  We did it for postwar Europe and I don't understand why we can't do it for our own people.  

I think that over time such a program would more than pay for itself.  I think it could also receive bipartisan support.  But for some reason no one from Washington ever calls me to discuss these ideas.


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## doat (Sep 4, 2020)

Never ending always something so what demands will be next?


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## JaniceM (Sep 4, 2020)

Still, whenever this subject comes up I wonder why a similar approach isn't taken for Native Americans...


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## AnnieA (Sep 4, 2020)

I don't support reparations, but do support programs to help people pull themselves out of poverty and other funding such as supporting well performing traditional black colleges.   Like Tougaloo College in our area that ranks 9th out of 99 historically black colleges.  Or funding similar to Michael Bloomberg's $100 million to medical schools at black colleges. 

I believe in the above more than typing on a message board.  My gynecologist before she moved went to Toogaloo for undergrad, then on to Johns Hopkins for med school.  My gastroenterologist went to Howard University medical school, then did her residency at Columbia.  Both brilliant women who know their stuff and are very caring practitioners who just happen to be black.  I found them both by asking through the healthcare grapevine who was the best in their specialties in the area.  Gave them a try and found they were the best.


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## AnnieA (Sep 4, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO reparation is a divisive idea.



Agreed.  People of other ethnicities whose families came here post emancipation would super resent it.


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## Knight (Sep 4, 2020)

Reparations doesn't necessarily mean money, it can be in other forms. Try as I can I can't think of what other form/forms would be appropriate. I'm not suggesting money should be given I just don't know what form/forms are not already in place. 

I guess one could argue money reparations would be appropriate for women in the work place since there is no doubt pay/salaries were not equal.


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## rgp (Sep 4, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> I don't support reparations, but do support programs to help people pull themselves out of poverty and other funding such as supporting well performing traditional black colleges.   Like Tougaloo College in our area that ranks 9th out of 99 historically black colleges.  Or funding similar to Michael Bloomberg's $100 million to medical schools at black colleges.
> 
> I believe in the above more than typing on a message board.  My gynecologist before she moved went to Toogaloo for undergrad, then on to Johns Hopkins for med school.  My gastroenterologist went to Howard University medical school, then did her residency at Columbia.  Both brilliant women who know their stuff and are very caring practitioners who just happen to be black.  I found them both by asking through the healthcare grapevine who was the best in their specialties in the area.  Gave them a try and found they were the best.





   "I don't support reparations, but do support programs to help people pull themselves out of poverty "

  We already have such programs in place......It's called get a job,and work at it.

 Start with a little job, then try to promote up, or advance to the next level/pay scale, perhaps acquire additional education/targeted training and work toward the next higher level again, etc,etc. 

Why is it that some groups just cannot seem to grasp that ?

Why is it that these same groups always want something free ? Some sort of handout ?


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## doat (Sep 4, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> Still, whenever this subject comes up I wonder why a similar approach isn't taken for Native Americans...


Through out world history there will be some group that can claim some short of injustice for something or another.  And this includes all racial, ethnic and religious groups.


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## 911 (Sep 4, 2020)

Remember in the movie "Barbershop" Cedric the Entertainer was arguing against reparations and he said, "The only thing reparations would do is make Cadillac the number one dealership in America?" He made that comment just to be funny, I'm sure, but it was funny and so I laughed.

This was a really good movie. It not only had comedy, but there was somethings in it to be learned for all of us.


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## Rosemarie (Sep 4, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> No one living was a slave.   No one living owned a slave.  Reparations for what?   There are so many failed social programs already; why burden people with this crap?  If you want a good life, work for it... like I did.


We need a lot more people with your attitude to stand up and speak your mind. Slavery was wrong, we admit that, but it was our ancestors not us who were responsible. We cannot keep apologising. We also must not keep giving in to unreasonable demands.  Time to put the past behind us and move on.


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## macgeek (Sep 4, 2020)

all this does is divide people even more. Larry Elder is spot on.


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## AnnieA (Sep 4, 2020)

rgp said:


> "I don't support reparations, but do support programs to help people pull themselves out of poverty "
> 
> We already have such programs in place......It's called get a job,and work at it.



Dunno if you've worked with kids from extreme poverty;  I have.  Ones that were motivated enough to attend community college.  Differences in cultural speech patterns among the poor set black kids at a disadvantage.  White kids may need grammatical corrections to things "I seen" "ain't" etc, but black kids from extreme poverty have more difficult language barriers to overcome ...some of which do go back to the time of slavery.  Things like that are a strike against getting a job and moving up. 

One program that does excellent work is State Land Grand University Cooperative Extension Services' Workforce Development.


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## rgp (Sep 4, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> Dunno if you've worked with kids from extreme poverty;  I have.  Ones that were motivated enough to attend community college.  Differences in cultural speech patterns among the poor set black kids at a disadvantage.  White kids may need grammatical corrections to things "I seen" "ain't" etc, but black kids from extreme poverty have more difficult language barriers to overcome ...some of which do go back to the time of slavery.  Things like that are a strike against getting a job and moving up.
> 
> One program that does excellent work is State Land Grand University Cooperative Extension Services' Workforce Development.




 So ...... we should just give them money ? Continue to enable them ?

  "black kids from extreme poverty have more difficult language barriers to overcome ...some of which do go back to the time of slavery. "

If they haven't learned in 155 years ? ......... Being poor is not the problem. Being ignorant is the problem. Now if we have a proven segment of our population that is truly that ignorant ,and has a certified lack of ability to learn ......... then yes _*they *_need some help. But you know damn well that the system will be gamed by others for personal gain. Be damn careful how this "reparation" is dealt with, and distributed . 

Just a note ............ I believe that some of this language barrier ......... is by choice ? Yes a hard point to prove..........and  just my opinion.


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## rgp (Sep 4, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> We need a lot more people with your attitude to stand up and speak your mind. Slavery was wrong, we admit that, but it was our ancestors not us who were responsible. We cannot keep apologising. We also must not keep giving in to unreasonable demands.  Time to put the past behind us and move on.



 I agree.


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## Nathan (Sep 4, 2020)

sehr alt said:


> Reparations is a bad idea. Being the descendant of both slaves and slave owners, how do we deal with people like Michelle Obama, who is typical of perhaps  hundreds of thousands of people ? No reparations !


Michelle Obama is typical of millions of people actually, being a typical person.   What does your reference to her have to do with the reparations topic?


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## AnnieA (Sep 4, 2020)

rgp said:


> So ...... we should just give them money ? Continue to enable them ?
> 
> "black kids from extreme poverty have more difficult language barriers to overcome ...some of which do go back to the time of slavery. "
> 
> ...



I don't know how you took my reference to Workforce Development and made it into "just give them money" "continue to enable them"  ...I'd think the title of the program clearly implies getting people to work.    And you must have completely skipped my post above in which I stated I don't support reparations.

As for the language issues ...   We're only 50+ years out from JimCrow in the South.  Enforced segregation perpetuated slavery speech patterns; condensed areas of poverty like ghettos do the same today.  The generation of kids who didn't grow up under Jim Crow are my generation.  Some black people in that time got higher education through schools like Tougaloo that I mentioned above or by going out of the South.  But not the majority by far.

That also doesn't mean that standard patterns of speech weren't taught in black communities through the years.   They were in a lot of instances, and are in most instances now, but I'm talking about kids who due to life circumstances aren't exposed to correct speech.


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## macgeek (Sep 4, 2020)

soon as you give them money, they will just demand something else. it will never be enough to satisfy them. I think Larry said that in his video. No one alive today is responsible for what people did 100 years ago.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Sep 4, 2020)

Knight said:


> That makes sense. Combine that with the amount of people that immigrated to America both legally & illegally that have started a business or work hard to provide for themselves & their families. They are successful & not looking for something free.


Many wouldn’t accept it if offered, they’re proud of their struggles.


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## Pepper (Sep 4, 2020)

Didn't anyone read or understand the post by @AnnieA?


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## Sunny (Sep 4, 2020)

> soon as you give them money, they will just demand something else. it will never be enough to satisfy them.



Racism, pure and simple, MacGeek.  Why am I not surprised?


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## C'est Moi (Sep 4, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Racism, pure and simple, MacGeek.  Why am I not surprised?


That's right, whip out that race card.  Never gets old, or any less annoying.


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## rgp (Sep 4, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> I don't know how you took my reference to Workforce Development and made it into "just give them money" "continue to enable them"  ...I'd think the title of the program clearly implies getting people to work.    And you must have completely skipped my post above in which I stated I don't support reparations.
> 
> As for the language issues ...   We're only 50+ years out from JimCrow in the South.  Enforced segregation perpetuated slavery speech patterns; condensed areas of poverty like ghettos do the same today.  The generation of kids who didn't grow up under Jim Crow are my generation.  Some black people in that time got higher education through schools like Tougaloo that I mentioned above or by going out of the South.  But not the majority by far.
> 
> That also doesn't mean that standard patterns of speech weren't taught in black communities through the years.   They were in a lot of instances, and are in most instances now, but I'm talking about kids who due to life circumstances aren't exposed to correct speech.




"I don't know how you took my reference to Workforce Development and made it into "just give them money" "continue to enable them" ...I'd think the title of the program clearly implies getting people to work. And you must have completely skipped my post above in which I stated I don't support reparations."


 I didn't, I was just asking your opinion .. note the question mark.

   "And you must have completely skipped my post above in which I stated I don't support reparations."

 No I got it ...... I guess my question, was rhetorical ? One of those ya just ask.

 I suppose I could have asked it ? In a different manner...........My bad.


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## rgp (Sep 4, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> That's right, whip out that race card.  Never gets old, or any less annoying.




  +1


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## Pepper (Sep 4, 2020)

rgp said:


> I suppose I could have asked it ? In a different manner...........My bad.


Yes, why don't you work on that?


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## rgp (Sep 4, 2020)

Pepper said:


> Yes, why don't you work on that?




You run your railroad , & I'll run mine.


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## KimIn Wis (Sep 4, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO reparation is a divisive idea.
> 
> I believe that all Americans should have an opportunity to work and achieve the American Dream.
> 
> ...


And that's the problem now. If you work hard and achieve and exceed the American Dream, you are penalized!  I do good and I get penalized? Don't get me wrong, big box/coorperations should some how be taxed differently than the American Joe. Just because I make a bit more than my neighbor, after many years and hard work, I should now be penalized for reaching the American Dream?


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## Sunny (Sep 5, 2020)

KimIn Wis said:


> And that's the problem now. If you work hard and achieve and exceed the American Dream, you are penalized!  I do good and I get penalized? Don't get me wrong, big box/coorperations should some how be taxed differently than the American Joe. Just because I make a bit more than my neighbor, after many years and hard work, I should now be penalized for reaching the American Dream?



So you have reached a certain level of achievement after years of hard work? Good for you. But, how about your neighbor, who has worked just as hard and is still struggling, at least in part due to the color of his  skin? And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home?

There are many thousands of people in this country who probably feel like Sisyphus, condemned to spend eternity rolling a huge boulder up a hill only to have it roll back down again each time. Why are they "condemned" this way? Why can't they just work hard and apply themselves, like you have?

Maybe it's easier said than done when people are still overcoming the poison of slavery, racism, contempt, lynching, unequal treatment by the law, living in squalid surroundings and going to inferior schools, trying to raise their children in the midst of crime and temptation. Yes, lots of the Black people among us have risen above all that. And not all had to get over poverty. But many are stuck in dismal circumstances, a heritage of their ancestors being enslaved. 

Have you seen the movie "The Help?"  That sums it up better than anything I can say.

I think, as a White person, that we owe them a little bit of a hand up, just out of common decency.


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## C'est Moi (Sep 5, 2020)

Sunny said:


> So you have reached a certain level of achievement after years of hard work? Good for you. But, how about your neighbor, who has worked just as hard and is still struggling, at least in part due to the color of his  skin? And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home?
> 
> There are many thousands of people in this country who probably feel like Sisyphus, condemned to spend eternity rolling a huge boulder up a hill only to have it roll back down again each time. Why are they "condemned" this way? Why can't they just work hard and apply themselves, like you have?
> 
> ...


Exactly what do you think has been happening since the days of LBJ in the '60's??   One failed program after another to "give a hand up."   It has been ineffective until now and will continue to be so.  Good grief.   I am white, I am decent, and I work hard.  I don't "owe" anyone a damn thing.


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## JaniceM (Sep 5, 2020)

Sunny said:


> So you have reached a certain level of achievement after years of hard work? Good for you. But, how about your neighbor, who has worked just as hard and is still struggling, at least in part due to the color of his  skin? And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home?
> 
> There are many thousands of people in this country who probably feel like Sisyphus, condemned to spend eternity rolling a huge boulder up a hill only to have it roll back down again each time. Why are they "condemned" this way? Why can't they just work hard and apply themselves, like you have?
> 
> ...



But how many generations need to pass (I mean in time, not dying) before people's "circumstances" do include at least some elements of personal choice?


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## rgp (Sep 5, 2020)

"But, how about your neighbor, who has worked just as hard and is still struggling, at least in part due to the color of his skin? And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home? "

  I think he/she needs to look at why they are still struggling, perhaps it is their spending/living habits?

"And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home? "

I believe he/she needs to encourage better behavior among & within their own community, then the air of suspicion won't follow them. They , as a group , community, race ..... created the suspicion through their own acts. Only they can remove it.

Slavery has been gone for 155 years ....... playing the race card has become a very tiresome , old excuse.

"slavery, racism, contempt, lynching, unequal treatment by the law, "

Again, 155 years ! ........... get over it. Not one person alive today was a slave nor a slave owner.

  "But many are stuck in dismal circumstances, a heritage of their ancestors being enslaved. "

The race/slave card again ...... They need to really put it behind them, how many years are these folks going to identify as slave descendants ? When are they going to create their own legacy ? Put slavery behind themselves......clinging to it certainly has done nothing positive for them. If they continue to think that the next generation will feel more sorry for them, all they are going meet is resistance .

" Why can't they just work hard and apply themselves, like you have? "

That has been my question for my entire adult life.


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## AnnieA (Sep 5, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Have you seen the movie "The Help?"  That sums it up better than anything I can say.



Did you read the book?  It's much better than the movie.

Dispatches from Pluto is a must read for understanding present day rural challenges. The section on education is heartbreakingly honest and I think details problems in majority black under-performing schools in cities as well. But regardless of why the schools are failing, it's not the fault of the kids in them who start life far below a level playing field.

.


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## Knight (Sep 5, 2020)

Sunny said:


> So you have reached a certain level of achievement after years of hard work? Good for you. But, how about your neighbor, who has worked just as hard and is still struggling, at least in part due to the color of his skin? And has to face racism and suspicion every time he leaves his home?



Cut the rest in order to address the beginning paragraph.

You attribute working just as hard but still struggling to the color of his skin why? As a neighbor of kim's wouldn't that indicate a higher standard of living. Are you saying kim is racist and suspicious of her neighbor?


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## Sunny (Sep 5, 2020)

OK, maybe rather than the word "neighbor," I should have said "another person living at the opposite end of town."  Would that make better sense to you?


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