# Buy or  Rent?



## rkunsaw (Nov 6, 2019)

The real estate people say I should get $250,000 or a little more for my home. I now need to decide whether to buy or rent when we move.  

Will need 3 bedrooms because wife's daughter will move in with us to help take care of us. I'll be 78 next month, my wife is 80. 

We first talked about buying a house but after some deep thinking on the subject I'm leaning hard toward renting.

I have a list of pros and cons in my head that support renting but before I mention my thoughts

I would like to hear others thoughts about it.


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 6, 2019)

I choose to rent because the money that I would spend on a house throws off more than enough investment income to cover the rent.

Also where I live a senior citizen can break a lease without penalty if they need to move into some sort of assisted living facility.

The only reason I can see to buy is if you need to customize the home to accommodate various health conditions.

Good luck!


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## rkunsaw (Nov 6, 2019)

That's what I was thinking Aunt Bea. Finding a suitable place to rent in a small town might be a problem though.


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## Ken N Tx (Nov 6, 2019)

rkunsaw said:


> That's what I was thinking Aunt Bea. Finding a suitable place to rent in a small town might be a problem though.


Be ready!!! Places for sale down here go within a week!!!


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## treeguy64 (Nov 6, 2019)

I would have a tough time renting, as I see it as flushing money down the toilet. With buying, you can expect to get a return on your investment, provided you buy at the right price, in the right place. 

I also want to feel free to modify my house in ways I see fit, and make my own repairs, as I'm better at doing so than the majority of workers out there. 

I would never buy in an area that has an HOA, though. To me, that would be Hell, having some dweebs telling me what I could and couldn't do with my own home. I never understood how anyone could stomach such people.


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## Packerjohn (Nov 6, 2019)

We have been home owners all our adult lives.  Last year I sold my last house & now we are renting.  I don't miss home ownership:  the cleaning of the eves troughs, the lawn, the snow, taking the garbage out, worrying about mould, filters & salts.  It's a lot of work. We live in a nice place with coffee mornings & Happy Hour on Fridays.  When we want to travel we just lock the door & go.  No more taxes, no more handyman calling & no more sales people at the door.  Life is good.  Don't understand why anyone who is a senior wants to live in their own home?


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## Packerjohn (Nov 6, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> I would have a tough time renting, as I see it as flushing money down the toilet. With buying, you can expect to get a return on your investment, provided you buy at the right price, in the right place.
> 
> I also want to feel free to modify my house in ways I see fit, and make my own repairs, as I'm better at doing so than the majority of workers out there.
> 
> I would never buy in an area that has an HOA, though. To me, that would be Hell, having some dweebs telling me what I could and couldn't do with my own home. I never understood how anyone could stomach such people.


Think about lifestyle.  Money isn't everything.  Why be the richest person in the graveyard?


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## treeguy64 (Nov 6, 2019)

Packerjohn said:


> Think about lifestyle.  Money isn't everything.  Why be the richest person in the graveyard?


I like working on my house. I like that lifestyle. My family would inherit, so I'd not be the richest cadaver in my chosen med school.


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## Ken N Tx (Nov 6, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> I would never buy in an area that has an HOA, though. To me, that would be Hell, having some dweebs telling me what I could and couldn't do with my own home. I never understood how anyone could stomach such people.


Ditto......


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## Gary O' (Nov 6, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> I like working on my house. I like that lifestyle. My family would inherit, so I'd not be the richest cadaver in my chosen med school


I'm there with that
I love working on my place


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## Camper6 (Nov 6, 2019)

The privacy you get in owning a private home can't be beat.

I rent now and that's what I miss.


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## HazyDavey (Nov 6, 2019)

I like the thought of living on my own ground.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 6, 2019)

I've done my own work all my life and I preferred it that way. But we  are selling because my wife needs more care than I can give her and this house and 25 acres is too much to keep up.  

Those of you who like doing your own work should consider there might come a time when you are unable to do so. 

Also, although I have no intention of ever dying, if it should happen, money in the bank will be a lot easier for my heirs to divide than a house.


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## Uptosnuff (Nov 6, 2019)

Speaking as a landlord with rental houses, I know firsthand what tenants are doing when they rent a house.  They are paying off someone else's mortgage and putting that money straight into the landlord's pocket.

After owning rental property, I don't think I could ever rent a place.  I would always think of where my money is actually going.  I would consider downsizing, maybe buying a small condo so someone else could do the outside work.  But my house, I want it to be mine.  That is my security.


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## Liberty (Nov 6, 2019)

Packerjohn said:


> We have been home owners all our adult lives.  Last year I sold my last house & now we are renting.  I don't miss home ownership:  the cleaning of the eves troughs, the lawn, the snow, taking the garbage out, worrying about mould, filters & salts.  It's a lot of work. We live in a nice place with coffee mornings & Happy Hour on Fridays.  When we want to travel we just lock the door & go.  No more taxes, no more handyman calling & no more sales people at the door.  Life is good.  Don't understand why anyone who is a senior wants to live in their own home?


The reasons we want to continue to live in this great home hub and mom and I built are many.  Its "home".  Most of all, what we have here we could never match with 3x as much expenditure if we moved.  We have privacy, beautiful acreage and like I've heard repeated over and over again from people that visit - "its a beautiful piece of land... like a resort"...lol.  What's not to love. 

We spent time in Florida in a beachfront condo for over a month for years.  Not hard to figure it wasn't for us.  Talk about living in a "cube" with sky high condo fees and no privacy, even with an ocean out your window and balcony.

Son knows what to do if the need would ever come - otherwise we hope to reside here for the duration and meet up on the other side with our buds!


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## toffee (Nov 6, 2019)

i think personally renting is like throwing it down a drain -if u can buy well within your money then I would '
nothing as good as owning your own home - do what you wish in it -and left to who ever u wish -
we have always had our place as the years past - never looked back on it good investment -so think hard =
and hope u settle in ok !


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## Manatee (Nov 6, 2019)

Rental rates go up, paid for stays paid for.


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## TravelinMan (Nov 6, 2019)

There are pros and cons for both renting and buying.  Only you know your personal situation and can make the best decision based on that.  It sounds like you are doing your due diligence.


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## Knight (Nov 6, 2019)

rkunsaw said:


> The real estate people say I should get $250,000 or a little more for my home. I now need to decide whether to buy or rent when we move.
> 
> Will need 3 bedrooms because wife's daughter will move in with us to help take care of us. I'll be 78 next month, my wife is 80.



I'm not in your same position but since I'm older than my wife I expect to go 1st.  I've advised my wife to find a suitable place to rent because upkeep on our home and all that goes with is not something she should not have to deal with.  You didn't mention if you have a mortgage payment or yearly property taxes or if selling & buying a home was really a need. 

Considering your ages that 250k could sustain you all for a long time renting. 

And congratulation on having a daughter that is so caring.


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## Lc jones (Nov 6, 2019)

If I were you I would rent, the reason being is that there’s so much maintenance involved when you own a home that you have to count on someone else for lawn work for interior painting and fixing things that are broken it is costly and is also unpredictable. We purchased our home when we retired but that was my husband’s decision, I would’ve preferred to rent because I do not like the responsibility of caring for a home.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 6, 2019)

Larry, I think in your position I would rather rent than buy, makes sense to me because of health and age-related reasons you don't need your own home to maintain, etc.  Best of luck in finding a three bedroom home that suits your needs in your area.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 6, 2019)

rkunsaw said:


> I've done my own work all my life and I preferred it that way. But we are selling because my wife needs more care than I can give her and this house and 25 acres is too much to keep up.
> 
> Those of you who like doing your own work should consider there might come a time when you are unable to do so.



I understand completely, with your wife suffering with Alzheimer's just caring for her and yourself will be a full time job.  I know from your postings how independent both of you were and how hard you worked to live off your land and make a good life for yourselves.  Time now to cherish memories of your working together and sharing a loving marriage, but put the physical work behind you in caring for a house and property.  Even a small suburban lot like I have takes a lot of work to maintain.


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## Packerjohn (Nov 7, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> I like working on my house. I like that lifestyle. My family would inherit, so I'd not be the richest cadaver in my chosen med school.


I used to love working on houses.  Built one in 1975.  Also finished 2 basements over the years.  The last one was 2 years ago.  It had a wonderful bar, a wine room, a spare bedroom & a library.   However, when you get to a certain age, like me, you finally get fed up running up & down to cut wood & realize that life is short & there has got to be more to life than work, work, work, work.


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## treeguy64 (Nov 7, 2019)

Packerjohn said:


> I used to love working on houses.  Built one in 1975.  Also finished 2 basements over the years.  The last one was 2 years ago.  It had a wonderful bar, a wine room, a spare bedroom & a library.   However, when you get to a certain age, like me, you finally get fed up running up & down to cut wood & realize that life is short & there has got to be more to life than work, work, work, work.


Except when you realize that your life isn't much fun without work, work, work. I have friends who travel. They love it. For me: Been there, done that. I have friends who like to sit around their homes reading, eating, watching TV, sleeping. Yeah, I've done that, too. It drives me goofy, after a while. I like the physicality of the work I like to do. I fully understand that my body will slow down, eventually. Eventually, my mind may want to do those things my body can no longer do. I'll deal with that when that time comes.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 7, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> I fully understand that my body will slow down, eventually. Eventually, my mind may want to do those things my body can no longer do. I'll deal with that when that time comes


For us that time has come. That's what I'm dealing with now.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 7, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> Larry, I think in your position I would rather rent than buy, makes sense to me because of health and age-related reasons you don't need your own home to maintain, etc. Best of luck in finding a three bedroom home that suits your needs in your area.


The problem now is finding a house to rent. There don't seem to be any in Woodlake, There are plenty in Visalia which is 15 miles away.


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## Liberty (Nov 7, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Except when you realize that your life isn't much fun without work, work, work. I have friends who travel. They love it. For me: Been there, done that. I have friends who like to sit around their homes reading, eating, watching TV, sleeping. Yeah, I've done that, too. It drives me goofy, after a while. I like the physicality of the work I like to do. I fully understand that my body will slow down, eventually. Eventually, my mind may want to do those things my body can no longer do. I'll deal with that when that time comes.


So do we...love working around the house and property.  To us that is what is making life productive and fun now.  Like my mom said "I'd rather work away than rust away".
She did too, right up till the end.  Know a neighbor that has had several heart operations and gets out there playing with his "motors" and working around his property nearly every day.  

Loves anything with a motor...he's a wiry little guy that works and works.  He's over 80 and we wonder what he would have been like if he would have stopped working and sat in a recliner with one hand on his heart.  Bet he would have been on the other side by now.
He has a zest for life and does say he "misses his horses", because he sold 10 acres to now downsize to 4 acres...don't you just love guys like that?  They are an inspiration to us all.


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## fmdog44 (Nov 7, 2019)

Seniors renting is not the same as young people renting. We have worked all of our lives to have money to live on. Seniors are not saving for a home like young people are. Retirement years are the reward years. A three bedroom will not be cheap depending on where the OP lives. I would just it down and do the math. A quarter million for the sale of the home is a nice start for rent money. My advise to the OP is do a thorough job of looking in to the place you want to rent because you don't want to rent a place full of young folks blasting the stereos all night. Good luck.


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## Liberty (Nov 7, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> Seniors renting is not the same as young people renting. We have worked all of our lives to have money to live on. Seniors are not saving for a home like young people are. Retirement years are the reward years. A three bedroom will not be cheap depending on where the OP lives. I would just it down and do the math. A quarter million for the sale of the home is a nice start for rent money. My advise to the OP is do a thorough job of looking in to the place you want to rent because you don't want to rent a place full of young folks blasting the stereos all night. Good luck.


So true, if we were to sell now, we would probably rent.  As it is, our big place never had a mortgage and there's vibs in "them there walls" and lovely land, so we've riding it out here and son knows it all.  Now if it were a regular home in a reguar subdivision or whatever  that has sold, you got it fmdog!


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## Packerjohn (Nov 7, 2019)

If the truth be know regarding work in the world, it would be as so:  Most working people in this world get 4 weeks holidays.  In the USA, 2 weeks is the standard for new employees.  Go figure!


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

Renting is best if you want to have the freedom to move whenever (don't sign a long term lease) but you're at the whim of the landlord to raise the rent, make lots of rules, or throw you out when the lease (or month) is done.  Owning a condo, you have the same cons and pros of BOTH owning and renting.  Owning a home gives you freedom to live as you please (if no HOA) but it ties you and your equity up and depending on the market it might take a long time to sell if you want to leave.  Only you can decide what is best for you under your circumstances.


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

This has nothing really to do with @rkunsaw's  situation, I just remembered this anecdote about the many perils of renting.

There were two Italian brothers that were close.  One bought a two family house and moved to the second floor.  The other brother offered to rent the first floor.  He was happy there and the brother charged him a decent rent.  Through the years he did a lot of remodeling safe in the belief that he would live there forever.  Then the other brother saw how lovely the apartment was and how much he could charge for rent to a stranger and kicked him out.  He had no legal recourse since he wasn't asked to do the remodeling and it was all voluntary.


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## treeguy64 (Nov 7, 2019)

PVC said:


> This has nothing really to do with @rkunsaw's  situation, I just remembered this anecdote about the many perils of renting.
> 
> There were two Italian brothers that were close.  One bought a two family house and moved to the second floor.  The other brother offered to rent the first floor.  He was happy there and the brother charged him a decent rent.  Through the years he did a lot of remodeling safe in the belief that he would live there forever.  Then the other brother saw how lovely the apartment was and how much he could charge for rent to a stranger and kicked him out.  He had no legal recourse since he wasn't asked to do the remodeling and it was all voluntary.


Not sure why their ethnicity was important to this story. 
I lived in Little Italy, in Chicago, during my last two years in college. Italian folks are very big on family ties, sometimes including another "Family." I find it incredible that one brother would kick another brother out of his place for the sake of making more money on the rent. Something else must have been going on, if this is, in fact, a true story.


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Not sure why their ethnicity was important to this story.
> I lived in Little Italy, in Chicago, during my last two years in college. Italian folks are very big on family ties, sometimes including another "Family." I find it incredible that one brother would kick another brother out of his place for the sake of making more money on the rent. Something else must have been going on, if this is, in fact, a true story.


It's a true story and I mentioned they were Italian exactly because "_Italian folks are very big on family ties_". Italians are also ''furbo'' (clever, cunning) and they like making money. The house owning brother just got greedy after a few years and realized how much more rent he could charge from a stranger.


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## Lc jones (Nov 7, 2019)

rkunsaw said:


> The problem now is finding a house to rent. There don't seem to be any in Woodlake, There are plenty in Visalia which is 15 miles away.


I love the town of Visalia, such nice people.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Nov 7, 2019)

I love my home but will probably end up in rent. My hubby just turned 81 and I am 74. I notice he does less and less and my son and I are now doing most of the up keep.
You mentioned your wife's daughter moving in. Nice that you will have her there. If it were me I wouldn't want to saddle her with maintaining the house as you both get on in age.


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

I've rented a few times in my life but only for very short periods.  The only good things I see about renting is the freedom to move as soon as the rent contract expires (month, lease) and the fact that all of your equity is available to you and not tied up on the property.  As to the rent, when you own a house you're also paying taxes, insurance, house and yard maintenance.  For now I plan to age at home and pay for help when I need it, then play it by ear as time goes on.  I hope I die before ending up in a nursing home.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 8, 2019)

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/clarksville-ar/woodlake-ca/50000
I'm not sure I can afford  to move


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## Ken N Tx (Nov 8, 2019)

rkunsaw said:


> https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/clarksville-ar/woodlake-ca/50000
> I'm not sure I can afford  to move


Are you looking in California??


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 8, 2019)

rkunsaw said:


> https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/clarksville-ar/woodlake-ca/50000
> I'm not sure I can afford  to move


Another good reason to rent for at least the first year to see if all of the changes in your lives are working for the three of you.

I wouldn't worry too much about the cost of living.  We all have our own cost of living and in many cases, a retired person's cost of living is significantly below the average for a given area.

Good luck!


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## rkunsaw (Nov 8, 2019)

Ken N Tx said:


> Are you looking in California??


Yes, That's where her daughter lives.


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## Catlady (Nov 8, 2019)

According to this article, real estate is in a bull market right now, good for sellers but bad for buyers.

https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/why-you-should-sell-your-home


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## Manatee (Nov 8, 2019)

When we bought a condo townhouse in 1987, I gave away the lawn mower and I have not missed it yet.  The association did the landscaping, exterior painting and roofing.  I just do the simple little jobs on the interior and not many of them anymore.
We own our present condo and I have not made a mortgage payment in 22 years.


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## Catlady (Nov 8, 2019)

Manatee said:


> When we bought a condo townhouse in 1987, I gave away the lawn mower and I have not missed it yet.  The association did the landscaping, exterior painting and roofing.  I just do the simple little jobs on the interior and not many of them anymore.
> We own our present condo and I have not made a mortgage payment in 22 years.


One of the things I hate about condos is the assoc fee.  I had a townhouse for a short while and complained about the $90 fee I had to pay every month.  A few years later I looked it up and it had gone up to $125 a month.  Of  course, that paid for water, trash, front landscaping (very small gravel area with a hedge lining the front), roof maintenance, and painting of the outdoor trim (brick walls).  I'd rather contract for the best rate or do it myself if possible.   I had a niece with a swanky condo and she paid like $300+ a month fee.   How much has your fee gone up those 32 years?


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## Liberty (Nov 9, 2019)

Manatee said:


> When we bought a condo townhouse in 1987, I gave away the lawn mower and I have not missed it yet.  The association did the landscaping, exterior painting and roofing.  I just do the simple little jobs on the interior and not many of them anymore.
> We own our present condo and I have not made a mortgage payment in 22 years.


Have a friend in Delaware that owned a house for years...sold it and bought an end unit nice big condo in  golf course community.  Now she is trying to find another house as she detests "all the noise" and the jacked up condo and assessment fees.

Good that you have a nice complex, with a good condo board.  Think they are probably hard to find.  Condo fees can run from 300 - 600 a month and then still hit you with yearly assessments, like where we stayed each year on the beach in SW Florida.


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## Ladybj (Nov 15, 2019)

My hubby is 57 and I am 59.  Long story short when we separated a few years ago, our house went into foreclosure and we both got apartments.  I had a very hard time adjusting because I was use to being in a house.  We got back together after being separated for 3 years and worked on our credit score and was approved for a mortgage.  My husband wanted to own again.. I was not sure but glad we were able to be homeowners again.  Its a very nice house.   Hubby does not like cutting grass so he hired a lawn company.  He has our front yard looking very nice.

My thought is, we have to pay to live somewhere so why not pay on a home that we may/may not own one day.  Apartments are very expensive in my area..some people are paying mortgage prices to live in an apartment.   I do not foresee moving again.  Also, I can turn up my music a little and don't have to worry if its too loud for my neighbor in the next apartment. 

Weigh your options and do what's best for you.


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## Ladybj (Nov 15, 2019)

PVC said:


> One of the things I hate about condos is the assoc fee.  I had a townhouse for a short while and complained about the $90 fee I had to pay every month.  A few years later I looked it up and it had gone up to $125 a month.  Of  course, that paid for water, trash, front landscaping (very small gravel area with a hedge lining the front), roof maintenance, and painting of the outdoor trim (brick walls).  I'd rather contract for the best rate or do it myself if possible.   I had a niece with a swanky condo and she paid like $300+ a month fee.   How much has your fee gone up those 32 years?


My hubby and I had a condo years ago.. It was nice..  Our condo fee started out $125, when we left, it was up to about $225...I am sure its up to $300 by now.  I remember when the Association ask all condo owners to pay an additional fee of $1,000 to help pay for repairs they had to do when we had a pretty bad storm.  I will not own a condo again...the fees are AWFUL.  When we started looking for another home.. we both agreed, no home with condo fees attached.  We looked at one house..was not a condo but had a condo fee attached.  My hubby really like the house but I was like NO.   We end up getting a home that we like a lot better without condo or HOA fees attached.


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## Marlene (Dec 23, 2019)

I prefer renting as people always forget about the real costs of owning: maintenance, insurance, taxes (which go up at the whim of government officials); and the biggest of all - the interest you pay on a house makes it cost at least twice the cost of the house.  Plus, a real consideration for me is that you never own a house, it owns you.  It takes away your freedom to pick up and move when you want to.  All of this is quite subjective and is based on my personal experience.


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## Catlady (Dec 23, 2019)

Marlene said:


> I prefer renting as people always forget about the real costs of owning: maintenance, insurance, taxes (which go up at the whim of government officials); and the biggest of all - the interest you pay on a house makes it cost at least twice the cost of the house.  Plus, a real consideration for me is that you never own a house, it owns you.  It takes away your freedom to pick up and move when you want to.  All of this is quite subjective and is based on my personal experience.


Everything you said about renting is true.  But, there's two sides to every coin. 

Houses go up in value (most of the time, anyway).  With renting you end up with nothing.  Homeowners are treated with better credit (banks consider them more stable).  You can do whatever you want to the interior, and the exterior if there is no HOA.  Taxes do go up, they also go down during recessions (mine did, anyway).  Landlords can and do raise rents, many do it every year.

Renting is good for people who like the freedom of moving (you), those who can't afford a down payment on a house or don't have the credit, and those who don't want to worry about maintenance chores.  I've only rented 4 times in my life, for short periods, and hated handing out that rent check and being told rules to have to follow.  I own a house and when I'm too old to do certain things, I'll just hire someone after getting the best quote.  I plan to age in place.


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## Knight (Dec 23, 2019)

We chose own since we've owned all our lives. Selling and getting back all we spent plus a profit worked for us. We are in the last home due to our age & the choice to live where we wanted to spend our retirement years. We bought close to stores, health care facilities should we have an emergency.  

No worries about fees or if a neighbor will be careless and cause destruction. Understanding that failure of things like the heat pump/ac unit or the water heater will happen. The offset to that is we have no mortgage. No mystery landlords increase rent to cover expenses.

There is no one solution fits all. Our situation works for us because we knew what we wanted & planned for it. Last is knowing our heirs will sell & split the profit. What better way to leave life than a parting gift?


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## Packerjohn (Dec 23, 2019)

It's nice to own a home when your young & fit but you might sing a different song when your 80 plus.  Also, renting buys you freedom.  You lock the door & take off to where ever.  Try that with the 2,500 sq. foot bungalow.


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## Marlene (Dec 23, 2019)

Catlady said:


> Everything you said about renting is true.  But, there's two sides to every coin.
> 
> Houses go up in value (most of the time, anyway).  With renting you end up with nothing.  Homeowners are treated with better credit (banks consider them more stable).  You can do whatever you want to the interior, and the exterior if there is no HOA.  Taxes do go up, they also go down during recessions (mine did, anyway).  Landlords can and do raise rents, many do it every year.
> 
> Renting is good for people who like the freedom of moving (you), those who can't afford a down payment on a house or don't have the credit, and those who don't want to worry about maintenance chores.  I've only rented 4 times in my life, for short periods, and hated handing out that rent check and being told rules to have to follow.  I own a house and when I'm too old to do certain things, I'll just hire someone after getting the best quote.  I plan to age in place.


Isn't that the beauty of having the freedom to make a choice     I've been co-owner of 7 houses.  Loved a couple of them, hated a couple of them, but now I want the freedom to come and go as I please, and don't want the expense of maintaining a house as a single woman.  Believe me, I think there are a lot more people like you than me in that most people who can afford to or have good enough credit tend to buy.  I rent not because I can't afford to buy but because I no longer want to.


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## mathjak107 (Dec 24, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> I would have a tough time renting, as I see it as flushing money down the toilet. With buying, you can expect to get a return on your investment, provided you buy at the right price, in the right place.
> 
> I also want to feel free to modify my house in ways I see fit, and make my own repairs, as I'm better at doing so than the majority of workers out there.
> 
> I would never buy in an area that has an HOA, though. To me, that would be Hell, having some dweebs telling me what I could and couldn't do with my own home. I never understood how anyone could stomach such people.




renting is exactly what allowed us to take the money we once had tied up in a house and buy a very very lucrative real estate partnership with it .

renting is never wasting money when that money can be deployed elsewhere at higher returns ..

there is a big difference between starting out and having no resourses to invest . then buying makes sense .

but once resources are developed over the years then you have options and alternatives with that money ... renting and  investing elsewhere has left us  in the position where we can subtract out more then a decade of rent , taxes and still buy multiple homes like we had today .

20-35% of all residential sales are all cash . so people develop substantial assets over time and that gives them choices that can be even better deals renting and investing elsewhere . this belief that somehow renters are poor losers is nonsense .. renters are just a mixed group that range from very poor to very wealthy . but there is nothing that says  buying has to win .

in fact someone renting a 3 bedroom apartment when raising a family who goes to a  1 bedroom in an apartment house at retirement  can see better cash flow then that homeowner still trying to support that 2500 sq ft single family home .

rents rising is no big deal if the lumop sum you would have had tied up in the house is generating far more then the rent increases ..  in fact many areas like ours have stabilized rentals where rents are capped yearly for millions of tenants .


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## Packerjohn (Dec 25, 2019)

Manatee said:


> Rental rates go up, paid for stays paid for.


True, rental rates go up; so do property taxes.  Live in your own house & house maintenance will be a full time job.  Trying climbing up a ladder to clean your eves troughs when your 80 years old & see how much fun it is?  Seniors should have fun when they retire not work until the day they die!


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## mathjak107 (Dec 25, 2019)

Packerjohn said:


> True, rental rates go up; so do property taxes.  Live in your own house & house maintenance will be a full time job.  Trying climbing up a ladder to clean your eves troughs when your 80 years old & see how much fun it is?  Seniors should have fun when they retire not work until the day they die!




think about this . when we all bought homes in the 1970's a home was 30-35k in long island . that was an insane amount of money over renting .

well today those homes are paid off and taxes are 12-15k so that paid off home represents a piece of a utility bill as far as affordability goes .. that paid off mortgage made it no easier to stay in your house in retirement . .

comparisons are usually flawed as well because rarely do we rent what we would buy . we tend to buy way more house then we rent . plus many cities have apartment buildings where the cost structure is very different and far cheaper .

a single family home here starts at a million , but you can rent a 2 bedroom 2 bath apartment for a fraction of what a single family home costs  a month .  so the economies of scale are different many times .

rarely is ayone actually comparing apples to apples in costs and property  or do they consider opportunity cost such as when that lump sum is invested elsewhere instead of tied up in that house .


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## Knight (Dec 25, 2019)

Packerjohn said:


> True, rental rates go up; so do property taxes.  Live in your own house & house maintenance will be a full time job.  Trying climbing up a ladder to clean your eves troughs when your 80 years old & see how much fun it is?  Seniors should have fun when they retire not work until the day they die!


Owning a home vs. rent isn't a one situation fits all. As mathjak107 points out home values increase. It did for us since we had a low interest fixed mortgage rate & were able to pay off the mortgage by doubling the payment in turn cutting the amount of interest on the loan. Luck played a part since we bought in a buyers market & sold in a sellers market. Even luckier to be offered a retirement package at age 54 that exceeded what we had planned on for early retirement at age 55.

Prior to retiring living in the cold north east owning a [mortgage free] 5 bedroom 3600 sq. ft bi-level home with a detached 3 car garage on 8 acres of land fit our needs. Living in it for more than 3 years made it possible to sell with no federal tax on the 4X gain in value when we sold. That of course left us with a significant amount of cash to do with as we pleased. 

Expecting to be less able to perform maintenance we bought a 3 bedroom rancher in the warm southwest. Stucco exterior, tile roof. Maintenance amounts to washing the windows with a hose & squeegee. No grass due to desert landscaping. Taxes on this property vary but have never gone above $1200.00 a year. Bought & paid cash @$105,000.00 current value placed at $265,000.00. We have no intention of selling because we are centrally located & are living exactly as we planned for.


As I began with owning a home vs. rent isn't a one situation fits all.


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## Liberty (Dec 25, 2019)

Packerjohn said:


> True, rental rates go up; so do property taxes.  Live in your own house & house maintenance will be a full time job.  Trying climbing up a ladder to clean your eves troughs when your 80 years old & see how much fun it is?  Seniors should have fun when they retire not work until the day they die!


Glad our house doesn't have any "eves" to clean...lol.


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## mathjak107 (Dec 25, 2019)

Liberty said:


> Glad our house doesn't have any "eves" to clean...lol.


When we had our house every time I got paid a little hand came out looking for it’s share ....there was always something that had to be done ,fixed or bought


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## Catlady (Dec 25, 2019)

Knight said:


> As I began with *owning a home vs. rent isn't a one situation fits all*.



EXACTLY!  We can argue about the pros and cons of both renting or owning, what matters is one's situation or attitude. 

I prefer owning, and now that I'm elderly, I pay my handyman to do what I can't do.  I like being queen of my own castle and do what I want with my premises and as long as I pay my taxes no landlord can tell me to leave or raise my rent every year.  As to ''opportunity costs'', other investments can go bad and you lose that investment fully or partially, nothing is guaranteed to go up forever.


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## mathjak107 (Dec 25, 2019)

Catlady said:


> EXACTLY!  We can argue about the pros and cons of both renting or owning, what matters is one's situation or attitude.
> 
> I prefer owning, and now that I'm elderly, I pay my handyman to do what I can't do.  I like being queen of my own castle and do what I want with my premises and as long as I pay my taxes no landlord can tell me to leave or raise my rent every year.  As to ''opportunity costs'', other investments can go bad and you lose that investment fully or partially, nothing is guaranteed to go up forever.


As many of those who lost their homes in the Great Recession can tell you


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## Catlady (Dec 25, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> As many of those who lost their homes in the *Great Recession* can tell you


Foolish people also lost their money in stocks by selling in a panic.  As always, it's best not to invest what you can't afford to lose,  have an adequate emergency fund for unexpected expenses, don't buy more house than you can afford, and try to pay off debts, including mortgages, as fast as you can.  No one should be without a safety net of some kind.


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## mathjak107 (Dec 25, 2019)

Catlady said:


> Foolish people also lost their money in stocks by selling in a panic.  As always, it's best not to invest what you can't afford to lose,  have an adequate emergency fund for unexpected expenses, don't buy more house than you can afford, and try to pay off debts, including mortgages, as fast as you can.  No one should be without a safety net of some kind.


The point is you can lose money through poor investor behavior in real estate as well as the markets .....  for those who say you can’t live in a stock , the flip side is you can’t spend the closet at the super market either ....so poor handling of ones money is poor handling


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## Knight (Dec 25, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> The point is you can lose money through poor investor behavior in real estate as well as the markets .....  for those who say you can’t live in a stock , the flip side is you can’t spend the closet at the super market either ....so poor handling of ones money is poor handling


This is about owning a home or renting, investing is a whole other animal. What works for people is what people do.


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## mathjak107 (Dec 25, 2019)

Knight said:


> This is about owning a home or renting, investing is a whole other animal. What works for people is what people do.


No it isn’t .. because renting Is going to usually be far more costly then owning ,especially over time  so renting and getting nothing in return  to offset the higher costs is  a poor financial choice , it ends up just being an expensive lifestyle choice  ... the idea is to rent and be able to cover living expenses and the greater expenses by having the money not tied up in the house work for you so it covers not only the addition expenses but gives you improved cash flow too which you get simply by putting the money in something like Wellesley income.

the choices between renting or owning have a lot of moving pieces to them


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## Knight (Dec 25, 2019)

Quote
"the choices between renting or owning have a lot of moving pieces to them"

Exactly that's why I ended with this.
What works for people is what people do.


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## mathjak107 (Dec 25, 2019)

Knight said:


> Quote
> "the choices between renting or owning have a lot of moving pieces to them"
> 
> Exactly that's why I ended with this.
> What works for people is what people do.


Well that is also why I am saying that what you do with that money not in the house is a factor ...you will have higher housing costs and how you offset them can be a crucial part of the decision


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## Catlady (Dec 25, 2019)

Knight said:


> This is about owning a home or renting, investing is a whole other animal. What works for people is what people do.


@Knight = I am the one that deviated into investing because @mathjak107 said homeowners lost their houses during the recession.  I pointed out that people can also lose money in the market if they're foolish enough to sell the stocks in a panic.

It's all like you said, renting or owning depends entirely on the individual person, their attitude and circumstances.


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## Gardenlover (Dec 25, 2019)

You know what it's like to own, try the renting route, then you'll have first hand experience to know if renting fits your lifestyle. If it's not for you, your just out the rent money and moving expenses. I own a home and a condo, both are good and bad in different ways. 

Another thing to consider if renting is which floor to rent on, do they have elevators if your not on the first floor? There's less noise if you live on the top floor, but the rent can be higher. Do you need covered parking? Is the complex close to things you like to do? Are shopping and restaurants nearby? Is it a senior only community or mixed ages? (To put it nicely, both have their own set of opportunities.)


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## Packerjohn (Dec 25, 2019)

Camper6 said:


> The privacy you get in owning a private home can't be beat.
> 
> I rent now and that's what I miss.


Well, that is true to a certain point but what do you do if your neighbour has some big dog that goes out in the evening & barks his fool head off until someone lets him back in or some little Yorkie that barks at everyone that comes around?  Been there, done it & don't want to do it anymore.


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## mathjak107 (Dec 25, 2019)

We had a driveway between us and another home many years ago ...they guy there was doing auto repairs at 7am every weekend .... owning a home has zero to do with whether neighbors will make your life miserable or not ...in fact in many areas homes are attached ..


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## Liberty (Dec 25, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> When we had our house every time I got paid a little hand came out looking for it’s share ....there was always something that had to be done ,fixed or bought


That's sad.  We must be extremely fortunate.  Hub was very skilled in project engineering and this joint is not a "stick built" house.  Never have to paint it or do much at all. We have a standing metal roof and about 50 some 72 long 3/4" pane windows. 

We like wide open views of nature.  Our excuse for not cleaning the second floor windows is the birds fly into it now, like what would happen if they were squeaky clean...lol. Pedro, mows the acreage around the house.  Life is good.  

Built in 1/4 mile exercise driveway...lol.  We've enjoyed so much here, it would have been hard to imagine living anywhere else.  Life and Texas has been very very good to us.


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## mathjak107 (Dec 26, 2019)

Knight said:


> Quote
> "the choices between renting or owning have a lot of moving pieces to them"
> 
> Exactly that's why I ended with this.
> What works for people is what people do.



the problem for most though is  that in life what works may not be the best choice , it is just a choice they selected ,  so they make it work ,  but that does not mean there weren't better choices had they been better informed.

people make living on social security alone work , they may hate that life and the stress of every unexpected bill or increase so   that does not mean because it works it was a good way to end up .

you have owners who end up house rich and cash poor , you have renters throwing money in to  a place  with no other assets working for them  either because they don't have assets to invest or they are anti investing ,  or they are just poorer .

so those who do have choices need to look at all the options and then choose a path , but most again do not know all the options because most americans are financially not very well informed .

you see it all the time as you hear others go renting is throwing money away or renters are losers .

they fail to realize the renter  may have bought a business , a practice or made very lucrative investments with that money not tied up in the house so their view is very narrow or skewed as the renter may be well a head of them


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## Pecos (Dec 26, 2019)

Packerjohn said:


> True, rental rates go up; so do property taxes.  Live in your own house & house maintenance will be a full time job.  Trying climbing up a ladder to clean your eves troughs when your 80 years old & see how much fun it is?  Seniors should have fun when they retire not work until the day they die!


I am totally on board with you on this. We have owned homes for 36 years and been quite satisfied with the experience. But I am getting to the point where I dread: cleaning rain gutters, crawling under the house, repairing appliances myself, dealing with people who repair appliances, pushing a mower around, raking, and I have a lifelong hatred of painting.
We intend to move into a senior independent living facility in a few years and let other people deal with all that stuff including cooking and cleaning. I don't want my wife to be rattling around in this big house cooking for one and getting lonely. 
Will it be expensive? But we have live frugally for decades and we can't take it with us.


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## Knight (Dec 26, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> the problem for most though is  that in life what works may not be the best choice , it is just a choice they selected ,  so they make it work ,  but that does not mean there weren't better choices had they been better informed.
> 
> people make living on social security alone work , they may hate that life and the stress of every unexpected bill or increase so   that does not mean because it works it was a good way to end up .
> 
> ...


I think you just outlined some of the reasons people do what works for them. What works as you point out may not be financially the best choice but it's their only option.  I'd  say those that had choices to look at all the options & chose a path could for many reasons change that path. Circumstance change so I'll stick with what works for people is what people do.


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## mathjak107 (Dec 26, 2019)

Knight said:


> I think you just outlined some of the reasons people do what works for them. What works as you point out may not be financially the best choice but it's their only option.  I'd  say those that had choices to look at all the options & chose a path could for many reasons change that path. Circumstance change so I'll stick with what works for people is what people do.




based on my own experience i found i did things because i had no idea about how to evaluate PROPERLY  the options .

as an example i was always a big believer in  taking a mortgage and investing  ,  a no brainier at these low rates ...

however as i learned more from michael kitces he made me aware of something i never looked at .

keeping a mortgage or not and investing our money is not as simple as just investing....

In effect you are buying equities leveraged with borrowed money . We tend to miss this factor ...

So you need to ask yourself if you were buying stocks on margin what would you want as a risk premium to make it worth doing .... you have 3-4% interest ...you have a risk free treasury bond paying 2% to 3% so how much of a risk premium over a risk free treasury bond would you want to not only buy equities but buy equities on leverage .. maybe 2-3% ?

If you were going to put that borrowed money in a balanced fund with a 6-8% return would you borrow money and do it knowing you have 3-4% interest and an investment with zero risk is paying 2-3% ?

That is a very different question now compared to just get more than the interest you pay.

In effect you are leveraged and your downside is now greater .....

Think this point through very carefully ....we don’t realize we can consider either one the investment bought on leverage when we borrow money and use our cash too.

We like to think it is our money in the stocks and the mortgage in the house but that is only mental masturbation when we do this ....it can be considered either way in effect in reality-because the situation has been altered from either just buying a house or just investing.

The risk premium as it is called becomes very important when using leverage because the downside is greater with leverage and that makes this a very different decision then we usually make.
We just have been fooling ourselves by taking our own money and the borrowed money and applying its use in a way that makes comfortable sense to us but the truth is all that money both your own and borrowed is coming from the same pocket and used interchangeably


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## Knight (Dec 26, 2019)

Or it could be as simple as living in the same town you grew up in, working at one of the few jobs available but happy.  Wealth isn't always what suits the needs of some. 

Then there are the people that as they age discover their needs change and look for ways to change.  I took this thread as the op looking for input & the experience of others to help make a decision. This is the 76th. post so maybe there is enough input to help with that quest.


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## mathjak107 (Dec 26, 2019)

Knight said:


> Or it could be as simple as living in the same town you grew up in, working at one of the few jobs available but happy.  Wealth isn't always what suits the needs of some.
> 
> Then there are the people that as they age discover their needs change and look for ways to change.  I took this thread as the op looking for input & the experience of others to help make a decision. This is the 76th. post so maybe there is enough input to help with that quest.


there are loads of reasons but for most of  us it is based on half a head of knowledge  since our brains can only reason with what we know . it can not factor in any thing we don't know and there may be key pieces of information missing .

no different then many look at with ss  concerned with one factor ,breaking even . once you learn all the other intertwined  things based on when you file you find what if i live is the bigger decision and so much  criteria can be involved in making an informed decision but if you dont know you may leave a few hundred thousand dollars on the table unknowingly ...  will whatever you do work ? sure it will but is it the best choice ?  maybe not .


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Jan 1, 2020)

rkunsaw said:


> The real estate people say I should get $250,000 or a little more for my home. I now need to decide whether to buy or rent when we move.
> 
> Will need 3 bedrooms because wife's daughter will move in with us to help take care of us. I'll be 78 next month, my wife is 80.
> 
> ...



In reading over the thread, many of the replies have taken a tangent from the original question. A couple at or near 80 with one needing regular care want to know if to buy or rent? In my opinion, at that age (and expected years of life remaining) I don't know why buying for a return on investment is important. Only the beneficiaries would benefit anyway.

A house means management of maintenance but also the daily care-giving that has to be done. Renting means somebody else handles the former and OP and the wife's daughter takes care of the latter.

As someone else mentioned, most people own too much house but when renting they normally only get the needed square footage.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 1, 2020)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> In reading over the thread, many of the replies have taken a tangent from the original question. A couple at or near 80 with one needing regular care want to know if to buy or rent? In my opinion, at that age (and expected years of life remaining) I don't know why buying for a return on investment is important. Only the beneficiaries would benefit anyway.
> 
> A house means management of maintenance but also the daily care-giving that has to be done. Renting means somebody else handles the former and OP and the wife's daughter takes care of the latter.
> 
> As someone else mentioned, most people own too much house but when renting they normally only get the needed square footage.


I've been leaning toward renting from the start. It makes more sense financially, but if I buy I'll be able to make changes that might be needed for health and mobility issues. 
For sure I'll rent at first so I can see if we like the area.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 12, 2020)

This article attempts to answer the question is it better to buy or rent. It is 16 months old so some factors may have changed again.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/05/its-better-to-rent-than-to-buy-in-todays-housing-market.html


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## Catlady (Jan 12, 2020)

Both buying and renting have their pros and cons.  What you decide on depends on your lifestyle and temperament.  I've only rented like maybe four times and did so only temporarily.  I didn't like all the rules I had to follow and always felt I was giving my money away to the landlord (even though I knew I was paying for a big service).  Renting just does not appeal to me, but appeals to others.  As long as the choice is voluntary and not compulsory, "all is well that ends well".

So, @rkunsaw - Have you made a decision?


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## Packerjohn (Jan 13, 2020)

It seems a great idea to buy when you are young & just married.  You know the investment of the purchase.  However, by the time I "hit" my 70s I sure was glad to sell my house.  I have been a home owner all my adult life.  Goodbye to all those bills for water, sewage, taxes, repairs, repairs & more repairs.  Goodbye to the basement rec. room, the garage & that lawn.  Love my condo.  Really no rules to worry about.  Just one rental payment/month plus hydro.  I enjoy the underground parking, the common room for "Happy Hour" & the peace & quiet of the building (it's 50 plus).  Nice folks live in this building.  Always ready for a bit of a chat with a friendly smile.  You hear stories about seniors being "lonely".  Well, fortunately, I don't know the meaning of that word.  LOL


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## rkunsaw (Jan 13, 2020)

Catlady said:


> So, @rkunsaw - Have you made a decision?


Latest news is Julie wants to buy a house and we would pay her which would be ideal for her and us. 
Problem is she can't find anything she can afford that would be suitable. We're in a holding pattern right now.


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## Liberty (Jan 13, 2020)

rkunsaw said:


> Latest news is Julie wants to buy a house and we would pay her which would be ideal for her and us.
> Problem is she can't find anything she can afford that would be suitable. We're in a holding pattern right now.


We've noticed how much more expensive any kind of "starter home" is today.  It can be hurting the whole real estate market, as that is what its built on...moving up.  Living in a home, selling and buying a larger one as the kids grow.  Sure hope it changes for this new generation.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 13, 2020)

rkunsaw said:


> Latest news is Julie wants to buy a house and we would pay her which would be ideal for her and us.
> Problem is she can't find anything she can afford that would be suitable. We're in a holding pattern right now.


This could get messy but have you considered her buying the house and you holding the first mortgage.

You could still pay her rent which would basically be an offset against her mortgage payment to you each month and you would have some protection over your investment with a first lien on the property.  If anything happens to you the remaining mortgage balance would become an asset of your estate.  If anything happens to her your investment would be protected by the mortgage.  If a 30-year commitment bothers either of you the mortgage could be written with a 30-year term and come due with a balloon payment after 3-5years at which time she could refinance or sell the property to pay you the remaining balance.  Just make sure to have an attorney spell it all out in the terms of the agreement so there are no surprises on either side.

It's a serious decision that would require some soul searching for all of the people involved but it might allow your daughter to get some tax benefits and growth of the real estate values that would help her with her next home purchase.

Good luck!


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## Happyflowerlady (Jan 13, 2020)

What about renting a duplex (both sides) for the time being ?  That would put you closer to Julie, and renting a duplex might be cheaper than trying to rent a large enough house.  Once you are there, and have things in storage that you do not need right away, you can search for the perfect place while your house here sells, and then you have the extra money to buy a house out in California.


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## Catlady (Jan 13, 2020)

I think it would be a good idea to talk to an elder lawyer to make sure you're protected with whatever you plan to do.  She may be your wife's daughter and may seem an angel, but even children have turned against their parents and defrauded them or abused them.  Hate to be such a cynic, but do a Google and you'll find plenty of stories. 

I know a couple where the wife has muscular sclerosis.  They took care of the daughter's two sons from birth so she could work, with the  implicit promise that they would take care of her children and she would take care of them in their old age.  Once the boys were teenagers and the mother got worse, she promptly found them an assisted living place to move to.


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## StarSong (Jan 13, 2020)

Liberty said:


> We've noticed how much more expensive any kind of "starter home" is today.  It can be hurting the whole real estate market, as that is what its built on...moving up.  Living in a home, selling and buying a larger one as the kids grow.  Sure hope it changes for this new generation.


Amen to this.  In our area, starter homes are over $600K.  We're talking 1500 SF max, 50 or more years old, and tiny lots.  It's total craziness.


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## Liberty (Jan 13, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Amen to this.  In our area, starter homes are over $600K.  We're talking 1500 SF max, 50 or more years old, and tiny lots.  It's total craziness.


Is it true there is an ongoing  attempt to repeal prop #13?


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## CrackerJack (Jan 13, 2020)

In England many people like to buy their house rather than rent. I do know some European countries rent rather than buy. The British are among the biggest propety buyers in the Western world; in fact we are thought to obsessed with buying rather than renting.

We bought our first house in 1964 and had three moves in the time between yhen and 1995. Mortgages were high in the 70's and we and many struggled to pay their mortgage and we never got into arrears but many did back then.

The ethos now here is buy and not rent and thoughts are once you are off the property ladder its difficult if inpossible to buy a property house.

I see this Thread was started some time back and wonder how things have gone for you and hope its positive.


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## Catlady (Jan 13, 2020)

rkunsaw said:


> Will need 3 bedrooms because wife's daughter will move in with us to help take care of us. I'll be 78 next month, my wife is 80.
> 
> We first talked about buying a house but after some deep thinking on the subject I'm leaning hard toward renting.
> 
> I have a list of pros and cons in my head that support renting but before I mention my thoughts



Although personally I prefer owning, maybe in your situation it's better to rent.  This way once the two of you pass, the daughter is free to move on or stay, and if she gets your inheritance, it will be much easier than having to deal with disposing of a house she may not want.  Or, if things don't work out, it will be much easier to move and end the caretaker relationship.  Talk to an elder lawyer for your peace of mind before you do anything.


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## Packerjohn (Jan 15, 2020)

Manatee said:


> Rental rates go up, paid for stays paid for.


Yes, rental rates go up but so do property taxes, service persons, maintenance costs.  Everything is going up all the time.  Remember when you sell you have to deal with those real estate "professions" who keep smiling at you in their adds.  Every time I moved & I have moved many times in my working life; it was always something like $17,000 for that smiling real estate agent.   

When you rent you just give your notice at the end of the contract or be like me, just sublet & you only have the pay the movers.  $1,000 CND paid for 2 guys to work 9 hours moving us.  They were real nice.  Property ownership makes a lot of sense for young couples in their 20s or 30s with little kiddies around but think again when you hit your 70s.  Anyone around here "love" shoveling snow or climbing up a shaky ladders to clean leaves out of those eves troughs?  LOL  By the way, my brother has lived in the same house since the early 1970s.  Guess, they will carry him out of this place when he croaks!  Different strokes for different folks!


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## charry (Jan 15, 2020)

toffee said:


> i think personally renting is like throwing it down a drain -if u can buy well within your money then I would '
> nothing as good as owning your own home - do what you wish in it -and left to who ever u wish -
> we have always had our place as the years past - never looked back on it good investment -so think hard =
> and hope u settle in ok !





you never own your own home toffee.....even when you have the deeds in your hand......its alwaŷs the banks................any sign of an overdraught or in the red......or illness.......they will have your house as quick as a flash.........


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## charry (Jan 15, 2020)

we choose to rent now, as you never really own your own home.......since mikes stroke, its easier, to get maintenance jobs done, and ,we can just move within weeks......which we re doing now....fed up here, time to move on......hmm, i fancy a place with a lake now, near a forest....  instead of a beach......


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## Liberty (Jan 15, 2020)

Packerjohn said:


> Yes, rental rates go up but so do property taxes, service persons, maintenance costs.  Everything is going up all the time.  Remember when you sell you have to deal with those real estate "professions" who keep smiling at you in their adds.  Every time I moved & I have moved many times in my working life; it was always something like $17,000 for that smiling real estate agent.
> 
> When you rent you just give your notice at the end of the contract or be like me, just sublet & you only have the pay the movers.  $1,000 CND paid for 2 guys to work 9 hours moving us.  They were real nice.  Property ownership makes a lot of sense for young couples in their 20s or 30s with little kiddies around but think again when you hit your 70s.  Anyone around here "love" shoveling snow or climbing up a shaky ladders to clean leaves out of those eves troughs?  LOL  By the way, my brother has lived in the same house since the early 1970s.  Guess, they will carry him out of this place when he croaks!  Different strokes for different folks!


We built our big joint in the mid 80's and are so fortunate maintenance is nil...we have a great groundsman (second generation now) that mows our property, when needed and the house itself is built like a bunker.  Often think if we did live in a subdivision "stick house" we'd probably not care and would have moved by now. LOL!


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## Packerjohn (Jan 15, 2020)

Consider safety!  You are much safer in a condo than in some lonely house in the suburbs, generally speaking.  Condos have excellent security system which are generally hard to break.  I know everyone on my floor because of "Happy Hour" & coffee mornings.   In many cities there are "home invasions" where muggers & all assorted low lives like druggies desperate for money for their next fix will enter your home & maybe kill you.  Most seniors can offer zero resistance.  I know my neighbours & they know me.  I feel very safe.  Yes, I'm aware that there are video cameras, bared wire, Doberman dogs & a good pump action shot gun by your bed at night but is this how you want to live?  Shaking in your booths every time the wind blows a branch against you house.  Not this ole' packer.  LOL


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## Liberty (Jan 15, 2020)

Packerjohn said:


> Consider safety!  You are much safer in a condo than in some lonely house in the suburbs, generally speaking.  Condos have excellent security system which are generally hard to break.  I know everyone on my floor because of "Happy Hour" & coffee mornings.   In many cities there are "home invasions" where muggers & all assorted low lives like druggies desperate for money for their next fix will enter your home & maybe kill you.  Most seniors can offer zero resistance.  I know my neighbours & they know me.  I feel very safe.  Yes, I'm aware that there are video cameras, bared wire, Doberman dogs & a good pump action shot gun by your bed at night but is this how you want to live?  Shaking in your booths every time the wind blows a branch against you house.  Not this ole' packer.  LOL


That would be horrible to live anywhere you'd have to worry about that drive by and/ or home invasion fear issues.  Ever watch Law & Order?  God bless them.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jan 15, 2020)

There's two points to consider. You are five years older than me. I'm not climbing up and down ladders, shoveling snow, etc. And neither will you be. If you buy, you will be paying others to do all kinds of chores. And finding those people ain't easy. You do have to consider your health problems. You are  now the healthiest you will ever be. I face this problem, too. What happens if you or your wife needs to enter a care facility? No, your wife's daughter will not  be able to care for a really needy person all by herself? Get that out of your mind right now. Sooner or later one of you is going into a home, leaving the other to cope with the upkeep of a three bedroom home. Nor do you understand how costy  having you or your wife in a care facility will be. That 250 isn't going to last all that long. The other point is all financial. I don't know much about the housing situation in Arkansas., whether it is cheaper to rent or own.  That is going to be the deciding factor. Your financial goal is to keep as much of that $250,000 as you can. I'm not sure plowing that money back into real estate, when you will need it in a few years is a good idea.
I recently spent 10 months in a hospital/ nursing home setting. One thing I would do is arrange for some one, maybe a lawyer, with power of attorney to take over your finances, etc in case you and your wife can't. I wasn't able to pay bills and things when I wasn't home.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 16, 2020)

So much good advice and good points made on both sides. Renting would definitely be best for us at this point in our lives. Finding a suitable place for rent is a problem though, especially in a small town.


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## fmdog44 (Jan 22, 2020)

Manatee said:


> Rental rates go up, paid for stays paid for.


Not true. Taxes for one. Home owners dues. Insurance rates go up. Maintenance costs from parts to contract labor never stop rising and real estate values can plummet. My home value went way up 5 years ago and then fell and continues to flatline and slip slightly. Between all the rising costs of owning versus what my home is worth now I will lose money.


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## mathjak107 (Jan 29, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Not true. Taxes for one. Home owners dues. Insurance rates go up. Maintenance costs from parts to contract labor never stop rising and real estate values can plummet. My home value went way up 5 years ago and then fell and continues to flatline and slip slightly. Between all the rising costs of owning versus what my home is worth now I will lose money.


In our area rents are a bargain as expenses on homes went up so much .

The issue is more than half of all rentals in nyc and the boroughs are rent stabilized ..even if at market rates the rents are capped each year .

So landlords of non stabilized apartments have to stay competitive


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## StarSong (Jan 30, 2020)

Liberty said:


> Is it true there is an ongoing  attempt to repeal prop #13?


Sorry @Liberty, I just saw this question.  

There is occasional low-level noise about it, but as any adult who's lived in CA knows, the residential portion of Prop 13 is the third rail of CA politics. Touch it at your own peril. 

There will a November 2020 ballot issue to strip most commercial properties from the Prop 13 protection umbrella. As you can imagine, lots of people are already lined up on both pro and con sides.


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