# Travis O’Brien and Nicole Jackson



## mellowyellow (Jun 4, 2021)

Travis O’Brien and Nicole Jackson allegedly used the guns to shoot at police officers.
The pair were charged with armed burglary and attempted murder of law enforcement officers, the station reported.

Makes me wonder how kids this young get to hate so much.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 4, 2021)

I attribute this to today's namby-pamby legal/justice system, as well as a _monkey see - monkey do,_ mentality.

Considering the direction our world is going (down the toilet), I see a whole lot more of it happening in the future.


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## hawkdon (Jun 4, 2021)

oh it is mommy and daddy's fault !!!!


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## mellowyellow (Jun 4, 2021)

I think once kids get to high school, no matter whether it's private or public, you've lost them.  Parents have absolutely no idea what's going on in the mind of their teen, you just have to cross your fingers and hope for the best IMO.


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## Judycat (Jun 4, 2021)

They thought it would be cool to be thugs since life is so boring. Now they should miss boring. Unless adult dopes step in and claim they are just young kids with their whole lives before them and don't let the law come down hard on them.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 4, 2021)

Judycat said:


> They thought it would be cool to be thugs since life is so boring. Now they should miss boring. Unless adult dopes step in and claim they are just young kids with their whole lives before them and don't let the law come down hard on them.


I think they should be in a rehabilitation (attitude adjustment) program while they're behind bars, though. I believe some young offenders can be saved.


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## MrPants (Jun 4, 2021)

If parents aren't attentive to the child's development, right from the start and if their messaging to the kid isn't consistent to the child from day 1, then the kid is lost. Have you ever seen a child who isn't testing the limits from day 1? It has been that way forever. 
There's a lot less good parenting these days. How can you raise a child when you yourself are a self-entitled parent who's never had to sacrifice or work hard to achieve the truly important things in life. You love your children but wanting them to have a better, easier life than you had seems to create more problems, generation to generation, than it solves perhaps?


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## win231 (Jun 5, 2021)

Both kids have an "extensive mental health history."  And they lived in foster homes.  We don't know how they were treated, but we do know what goes on in some foster homes.


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## Judycat (Jun 5, 2021)

win231 said:


> Both kids have an "extensive mental health history."  And they lived in foster homes.  We don't know how they were treated, but we do know what goes on in some foster homes.


Translation:  They were left to run wild and become everybody's problem, while professionals struggled to understand.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 5, 2021)

MrPants said:


> ... You love your children but wanting them to have a better, easier life than you had seems to create more problems, generation to generation, than it solves perhaps?


Too many young parents these days seem focused only on what _they_ want. They seem to think that children aren't thinking beings at all, and that their actions have no effect on their kids whatsoever.


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## hollydolly (Jun 5, 2021)

win231 said:


> Both kids have an "extensive mental health history."  And they lived in foster homes.  We don't know how they were treated, but we do know what goes on in some foster homes.


yes it's often written about abuse in foster homes ( my own mother was a victim in the orphanage where she was raised).. however the honest truth from me is that on several occasions I was in foster care as a child, and I was treated better than I was at home...


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## hollydolly (Jun 5, 2021)

I'd not heard of these kids until now so I looked up the story....

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...a-county-shootout-travis-obrien-b1859148.html


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 5, 2021)

Kids, who perform armed robberies, and shooting at cops aren't usually up for the Nobel Peace Prize, when they mature. Sadly, these kids will live out their lives confined to penal institutions. However they got to this point, they are way too dangerous to be ever unsupervised.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 5, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Kids, who perform armed robberies, and shooting at cops aren't usually up for the Nobel Peace Prize, when they mature. Sadly, these kids will live out their lives confined to penal institutions. *However they got to this point, they are way too dangerous to be ever unsupervised.*


My sentiment to a T!

Too dangerous to ever smell or taste freedom ever again!

Two words... lethal injection!

I am so sick and tired of the young offenders act!


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## Shalimar (Jun 5, 2021)

Who knows the true backstory of these children? If they have mental health issues, this may speak to child abuse. They may very well be deemed permanently unsuitable for release, far too dangerous to walk among us. Their youth does raise some questions, also. I hope every effort is made to unravel the mystery of why they perpetrated such crimes.

We need as much knowledge as possible, in order to learn ways in which we can hopefully lesson the chances of such behaviours happening again. I also hope these kids have the opportunity for mental health services while in jail.


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## Shalimar (Jun 5, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> My sentiment to a T!
> 
> Too dangerous to ever smell or taste freedom ever again!
> 
> ...


While I can certainly understand your rage and pain, I stop far short of capital punishment re anyone, particularly children. It is barbaric, and has never been proven to deter anyone. A revenge society is not a democratic/just society

If, Divine forbid, our country ever considers reinstating the abomination of Gov’t sanctioned murder, Canadians from across the board will fill the streets to protest. We will embrace civil disobedience, go to jail, whatever it takes. This is not my Canada.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 5, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> While I can certainly understand your rage and pain, I stop far short of capital punishment re anyone, particularly children. It is barbaric, and has never been proven to deter anyone. A revenge society is not a democracy. If, Divine
> 
> forbid, our country ever considers reinstating the abomination of Gov’t sanctioned murder, Canadians from across the board will fill the streets to protest. We will embrace civil disobedience, go to jail, whatever it takes. This is not my Canada.


I will never be in support of coddling evil regardless of age.


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## JimBob1952 (Jun 5, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> While I can certainly understand your rage and pain, I stop far short of capital punishment re anyone, particularly children. It is barbaric, and has never been proven to deter anyone. A revenge society is not a democracy. If, Divine
> 
> forbid, our country ever considers reinstating the abomination of Gov’t sanctioned murder, Canadians from across the board will fill the streets to protest. We will embrace civil disobedience, go to jail, whatever it takes. This is not my Canada.



I'm with you.  I'm very conservative on many issues but don't buy into capital punishment at all.  It flunks many legal, ethical and practical tests as far as I'm concerned.  

This is a shocking story, but these are abused, "dead end" foster kids.  They shouldn't have done what they did but the system (and the adults in their lives) failed them at every level.


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## Shalimar (Jun 5, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I will never be in support of coddling evil regardless of age.


At this point, we do not know why these children did as they did. 


Aunt Marg said:


> I will never be in support of coddling evil regardless of age.


   How do we know these children are evil? They may be so traumatised by their experiences in foster care etc, that they are in the throes of CPTSD. In that state, people of all ages can commit violent acts. Children would have even 

less control of their impulses than traumatised  adults would. What they did was terribly wrong, but evil is a whole other ball game. Ted Bundy was evil. Paedophiles who rape, torture, kill children are evil.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 5, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> At this point, we do not know why these children did as they did.
> 
> How do we know these children are evil? They may be so traumatised by their experiences in foster care etc, that they are in the throes of CPTSD. In that state, people of all ages can commit violent acts. Children would have even
> 
> less control of their impulses than traumatised  adults would. What they did was terribly wrong, but evil is a whole other ball game. Ted Bundy was evil. Paedophiles who rape, torture, kill children are evil.


You can slice it any way you like, they're evil in my eyes.

That's the problem with society today, looking past the true problem in an attempt to find an underlying problem dating way back to excuse evil acts and behaviour of today.

It doesn't wash with me, nor do I buy into that sort of mentality.


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## Sunny (Jun 5, 2021)

Capital punishment is barbaric, and should have been banned years ago. It has never worked as a deterrent; the countries that still practice this ancient form of vengeance have the highest crime rates.  All it does is make those in favor of it feel smug.

And after DNA testing proved that many of the people on death row (many black men in Texas) were in fact innocent, that alone should have been enough to get the practice banned.

Life without parole ought to be enough of a punishment, it seems to me.


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## Shalimar (Jun 5, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> You can slice it any way you like, they're evil in my eyes.
> 
> That's the problem with society today, looking past the true problem in an attempt to find an underlying problem dating way back to excuse evil acts and behaviour of today.
> 
> It doesn't wash with me, nor do I buy into that sort of mentality.


I am terrified to think under the society you envision, what  would happen to the unmedicated mentally ill, the veterans suffering from PTSD, or abused individuals pushed to the edge by rapists, domestic violence  etc,  who

sometimes   snap and commit acts of violence because the system has failed them. Yes, there  are consequences to such acts, but to label all such as evil, with respect, I disagree. During Middle Ages, hungry children were hung for

stealing a loaf of bread. During nineteenth century, barefoot children were jailed and beaten, half starved for stealing food, or shoes to protect their feet during the winter. During the Depression, one mother, unable to pay the rent, sold her children. No one did anything to prevent it.  Those were not the good old days.


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## win231 (Jun 5, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Who knows the true backstory of these children? If they have mental health issues, this may speak to child abuse. They may very well be deemed permanently unsuitable for release, far too dangerous to walk among us. Their youth does raise some questions, also. I hope every effort is made to unravel the mystery of why they perpetrated such crimes.
> 
> We need as much knowledge as possible, in order to learn ways in which we can hopefully lesson the chances of such behaviours happening again. I also hope these kids have the opportunity for mental health services while in jail.


It's unlikely the kids will ever get any help.  These days, there is no funding for mental health.  In my area, many homeless people with mental health issues are roaming the streets everywhere, endangering everyone.  Including "Nice" neighborhoods with 5 - 10 million dollar homes.


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## Della (Jun 6, 2021)

A twelve year-old's brain isn't even fully developed yet.   With the right therapy and a good home there's a decent chance they both could turn into good citizens.

The person I would like to see in jail, for a while, is the adult who allowed his AK-47 to end up in a child's hands.


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## win231 (Jun 6, 2021)

Della said:


> A twelve year-old's brain isn't even fully developed yet.   With the right therapy and a good home there's a decent chance they both could turn into good citizens.
> 
> The person I would like to see in jail, for a while, is the adult who allowed his AK-47 to end up in a child's hands.


Agree 100%.  Anyone who leaves a gun lying around or "Hidden" is irresponsible & stupid.  There are quick-access lock boxes available for both handguns & rifles.
Mine are in these:


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## win231 (Jun 6, 2021)

Judycat said:


> Translation:  They were left to run wild and become everybody's problem, while professionals struggled to understand.


I was referring to physical/****** abuse.


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## Judycat (Jun 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> I was referring to physical/****** abuse.


Yes it's very sad.


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## Mike (Jun 6, 2021)

All the blame doesn't belong on the parents heads, some must
be from other sources, maybe peer pressure, Game Consul Games,
TV Detective shows, those last two have killing and death built in,
especially the consuls, at least as far as I have seen and every cop
show or CSI show starts with a dead body, or shooting, the Digital
World is partly guilty I think.

Mike.


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## mellowyellow (Jun 6, 2021)

Lock them up and throw away the key.


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## Jules (Jun 6, 2021)

There was no link to the story.  It’s not as detailed as what I originally read.  This is one I found.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/florid...ith-ak-47-in-shootout-with-deputies-1.5454084

At 12, she already had a record.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 9, 2021)

Her mother was on drugs,locked her out,got arrested and was unable to raise her own daughter. Nicole suffered from several mental disorders. The state is nobodies parent. These foster homes, shelters, or detention centers can't handle problems this awful. You tube has her videos. She's a little girl who needs help not hate.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 10, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> Lock them up and throw away the key.


There was once a time when mental conditions were called demonic possession. These people were burned. hung or beheaded. Now it's throw away the key. Sad


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## hollydolly (Jun 10, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> There was once a time when mental conditions were called demonic possession. These people were burned. hung or beheaded. Now it's throw away the key. Sad


No throwing away the key in this country. Give them a veritable slap on the wrist with a short prison sentence then supply them with a new identity and somewhere to live paid for by the tax payer...


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 10, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> Lock them up and throw away the key.





Murrmurr said:


> I think they should be in a rehabilitation (attitude adjustment) program while they're behind bars, though. I believe some young offenders can be saved.


I could not agree more. I watched all of her videos on you tube. It's enough to make you cry. She's as mature as a 7 year old. Her mother being arrested and put in foster care as a result didn't help a girl who already had mental problems. She's not an adult.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 10, 2021)

As for the 12 year old. How many 14 year olds does he get close to. She's a woman in his eyes


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 10, 2021)

hawkdon said:


> oh it is mommy and daddy's fault !!!!


while her mother was arrested for many crimes which put nicole in foster care. Where's daddy.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 10, 2021)

win231 said:


> Both kids have an "extensive mental health history."  And they lived in foster homes.  We don't know how they were treated, but we do know what goes on in some foster homes.


we also don't know how they were treated before they got there.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 10, 2021)

Judycat said:


> They thought it would be cool to be thugs since life is so boring. Now they should miss boring. Unless adult dopes step in and claim they are just young kids with their whole lives before them and don't let the law come down hard on them.


well 8 cops fired over 60 rounds at Nicole. That should make you happy. And they were trained in shooting


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 10, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> My sentiment to a T!
> 
> Too dangerous to ever smell or taste freedom ever again!
> 
> ...


Boy you talk about hate. You sound like number one


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 11, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> Boy you talk about hate. You sound like number one


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 11, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> View attachment 167927
> 
> Travis O’Brien and Nicole Jackson allegedly used the guns to shoot at police officers.
> The pair were charged with armed burglary and attempted murder of law enforcement officers, the station reported.
> ...


So Nicole Jackson wins a gold metal, she's just a kid. Her IQ is 165, just a kid. Wins national spelling bee, just a kid. Commits a crime with a mental condition while on medication She's now an adult. If she walks can she buy beer NOW that she's an adult.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 11, 2021)

just watched left in bama on you tube. It's about nicole jackson. From the home she excaped from she called the police and told them she was going to kill herself if she wasn't moved out of there.


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## Shalimar (Jun 12, 2021)

*Desperate child. *


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 12, 2021)

Remember that aerial shot with no sound on the video. That's when they opened fire on a 14 year old with over 60 rounds. TIMED. The SUV she was behind before she hide behind a blue garbage can was hit 11 times. "Please don't make do this" REALLY. Chitwood is a piece of shit. He lied about her past. 
        Five days before this she told kids where she was held that she was going to kill herself. She was trying to get killed. Instead all she got is more pain. life in prison. Lethal injection......That's where the hate is coming from.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 12, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> At this point, we do not know why these children did as they did.
> 
> How do we know these children are evil? They may be so traumatised by their experiences in foster care etc, that they are in the throes of CPTSD. In that state, people of all ages can commit violent acts. Children would have even
> 
> less control of their impulses than traumatised  adults would. What they did was terribly wrong, but evil is a whole other ball game. Ted Bundy was evil. Paedophiles who rape, torture, kill children are evil.


You know how to separate crime from evil. And that's good.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 12, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> While I can certainly understand your rage and pain, I stop far short of capital punishment re anyone, particularly children. It is barbaric, and has never been proven to deter anyone. A revenge society is not a democratic/just society
> 
> If, Divine forbid, our country ever considers reinstating the abomination of Gov’t sanctioned murder, Canadians from across the board will fill the streets to protest. We will embrace civil disobedience, go to jail, whatever it takes. This is not my Canada.


Chitwood lied about her past. She's a wounded child NOT evil. The police took her mother and send nicole into a home where  kids there beat her. She did not steal a puppy. She wasn't trying to kill cops. She was trying to get killed. I'm so sad right now. That video was a lie. It hid the truth. The hate is from the people who want her dead or locked up with no hope forever. THAT'S HATE


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## Shalimar (Jun 12, 2021)

Growing up, I saw evil face to face on a protracted basis. I am well aware how, if circumstances had moved beyond my capacity to cope, I too may have snapped, and done as these children did. Wrong, but understandable. Evil? No.


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## Shalimar (Jun 12, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> Chitwood lied about her past. She's a wounded child NOT evil. The police took her mother and send nicole into a home where  kids there beat her. She did not steal a puppy. She wasn't trying to kill cops. She was trying to get killed. I'm so sad right now. That video was a lie. It hid the truth. The hate is from the people who want her dead or locked up with no hope forever. THAT'S HATE


My heart breaks.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 12, 2021)

I just under new members looked myself up. When they short your comment it changes the meaning.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 12, 2021)

The message ending in kill herself instead stopped at the word kill. Hmmmmmmm. Herself was omitted


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 12, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> That's called RICO. It's when you testify against the mob. You don't get a new identity otherwise. When you join antifa or BLM your released by the democrats who call you a hero. This stuff works well with censorship. It's all wrong. Nicole called the police and said she was going to kill herself if she wasn't moved. *They opened fire to help her out. That's all the help she was going to get. Over 60 shots fired at her.* Sad


The only "sad" thing about it, the two are still alive.

Would have been a pleasure to see our world scrubbed of the two, two bullets out of the 60 (plus) rounds fired would have been all that was needed.

I don't believe kids with such deep-rooted problems can ever be rehabilitated, but what I do believe is, whatever shortfalls landed on their laps in their failed attempts to kill at an early age, those failed attempts are ironed-out in their latter years, making for even more dangerous and hardened individuals in the future.

This world can do without them.


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## Shalimar (Jun 12, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> The message ending in kill herself instead stopped at the word kill. Hmmmmmmm. Herself was omitted


Interesting omission


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## hollydolly (Jun 12, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> That's called RICO. It's when you testify against the mob. You don't get a new identity otherwise. When you join antifa or BLM your released by the democrats who call you a hero. This stuff works well with censorship. It's all wrong. Nicole called the police and said she was going to kill herself if she wasn't moved. They opened fire to help her out. That's all the help she was going to get. Over 60 shots fired at her. Sad


You don't have to testify against any mob here to get a new identityif you've broken the law. Just do something that will tick the masses off,and you get free housing, and a new identity when you leave priosn , and if anyone discovers your real identity.. and takes any kind of action against you.._they  _will face charges..and possible jail time


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 12, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Growing up, I saw evil face to face on a protracted basis. I am well aware how, if circumstances had moved beyond my capacity to cope, I too may have snapped, and done as these children did. Wrong, but understandable. Evil? No.


I FEEL SO BAD FOR THESE KIDS RIGHT NOW. Will they get help? Did you go on you tube? Under her name Nicole Jackson Maldonado there's 19 videos. She's just a child. Shot at over 60 times while there was no sound. Sickening. Chitwood makes me sick. He's a lying bastard.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 12, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> You don't have to testify against any mob here to get a new identityif you've broken the law. Just do something that will tick the masses off,and you get free housing, and a new identity when you leave priosn , and if anyone discovers your real identity.. and takes any kind of action against you.._they  _will face charges..and possible jail time


Not true


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 12, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> The only "sad" thing about it, the two are still alive.
> 
> Would have been a pleasure to see our world scrubbed of the two, two bullets out of the 60 (plus) rounds fired would have been all that was needed.
> 
> ...


Your a source of hate.


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## Shalimar (Jun 12, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> I FEEL SO BAD FOR THESE KIDS RIGHT NOW. Will they get help? Did you go on you tube? Under her name Nicole Jackson Maldonado there's 19 videos. She's just a child. Shot at over 60 times while there was no sound. Sickening. Chitwood makes me sick. He's a lying bastard.


 I must take a break from this horror. It has triggered my CPTSD. I will check it out when I can. I pray these children receive the help they so desperately need.


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## hollydolly (Jun 12, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> Not true


sadly it IS true....


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## Pecos (Jun 12, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> The only "sad" thing about it, the two are still alive.
> 
> Would have been a pleasure to see our world scrubbed of the two, two bullets out of the 60 (plus) rounds fired would have been all that was needed.
> 
> ...


Oh really, I suppose this view represents fine Christian Values.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 12, 2021)

Pecos said:


> Oh really, I suppose this view represents fine Christian Values.


did you really think any person wanting them killed has christian values. After 30 years working in a hospital I wish I could forget many things.


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## Pecos (Jun 12, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> did you really think any person wanting them killed has christian values. After 30 years working in a hospital I wish I could forget many things.


I was being sarcastic.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 12, 2021)

Pecos said:


> Oh really, I suppose this view represents fine Christian Values.


I don't attach religion to my values or beliefs, nor do I expect everyone to be in agreeance with my stance on individuals like this.

We all have our own ideals and outlook on violence and I'm not (at all) in favour of coddling the likes of individuals such as these. As one member stated earlier on in this thread, "_lock them up and throw away the key_", and I couldn't agree more.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 12, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I was being sarcastic.


When there was no sound due to aerial shots these 8 officers wanted to kill Nicole. Firing over 60 rounds at her. "sweetie" She's put in a home because her mother gets arrested. She's not an adult. Playing for the camera then open fire. This is how what you see is not all true.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 13, 2021)

So people. How much of what you heard did you see? Why the blur? Listen from the 7 minute mark on, what did you hear? Before they got close enough to hear her crying I heard a women say "I've got the gun." It therefore wasn't in her hand. Or by the SUV. Or next to her body. They blocked the sound of shooting at her, then they blurred everything else, WAS NICOLE SHOT WHILE UNARMED? 30 minute standoff. 10 minutes of video, with blurring. OH and Chitwood is a dirty liar.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 13, 2021)

Judycat said:


> Translation:  They were left to run wild and become everybody's problem, while professionals struggled to understand.


I watched the video of Nicole at 10 years old. She looks 9 months pregnant. Who allows their child to eat like that. She wasn't running then, wild or otherwise. Her mom was arrested for child neglect. She called the police herself for help. They put her in cuffs and took her to another home.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 13, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> , nor do I expect everyone to be in agreeance with my stance on individuals like this.
> 
> We all have our own ideals and outlook on violence and I'm not (at all) in favour of coddling the likes of individuals such as these. As one member stated earlier on in this thread, "_lock them up and throw away the key_", and I couldn't agree more.


"I don't attach religion to my values or beliefs." This says it all


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 13, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> "I don't attach religion to my values or beliefs." This says it all


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 13, 2021)

Checked online. I confused RICO with Witsec.


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## mellowyellow (Jun 13, 2021)

Are you a relative of Nicole's?


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 13, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> Are you a relative of Nicole's?


You beat me to it, Mellow!


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 13, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> Are you a relative of Nicole's?


No My second cousin had mental problems. She had a loving famiy; Was never put in a home. Her schooling was special education. She grew up. Got a job. Married and had two kids. Then for reasons I'll never understand as long as I lived. She killed herself. Mental illness scares me because I don't know if there's hope. No matter what. So unfair. So sad.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 13, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> No My second cousin had mental problems. She had a loving famiy; Was never put in a home. Her schooling was special education. She grew up. Got a job. Married and had two kids. Then for reasons I'll never understand as long as I lived. She killed herself. Mental illness scares me because *I don't know if there's hope.* No matter what. So unfair. So sad.


You don't know if there is hope?

As in some sort of magic bullet that solves the worldly issue of mental illness and kisses everything better? Makes the problem miraculously go away? Poof, gone?


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 13, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> You don't know if there is hope?
> 
> As in some sort of magic bullet that solves the worldly issue of mental illness and kisses everything better? Makes the problem miraculously go away? Poof, gone?


I can separate mental illness from evil. But I'm painfully aware of the effects of both. It seems to me after living 71 years that evil people kill others while the mental cases kill themselves. 31 years of working in a hospital has taken effect on me. I know what a code in peds ICU means. I just want to run away and never come back. I hate trips to the ER. I should have never worked in a hospital. Hearing a mother scream at the top of her lungs MY BABY. Knowing there are no words, no drugs no magic bullets no hope. Physical pain isn't as bad as depression. I've seen too much. I read and listen to music. I hoped earning a second degree black belt in martial arts was for me. THE MAGIC BULLET. It wasn't. The day my best friend died still hurts. Sometimes life just sucks.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> View attachment 167927
> 
> Travis O’Brien and Nicole Jackson allegedly used the guns to shoot at police officers.
> The pair were charged with armed burglary and attempted murder of law enforcement officers, the station reported.
> ...


Travis has threatened to kill people. Nicole never has. You tube's "left in bama" is the only place to find someone who doesn't want Nicole killed or given life in prison as an adult.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

Judycat said:


> Yes it's very sad.


For some reason I can't find out about her physical condition now let alone in her past.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

hawkdon said:


> oh it is mommy and daddy's fault !!!!


fault is the starting point. I was hoping solution was the end point


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> I think once kids get to high school, no matter whether it's private or public, you've lost them.  Parents have absolutely no idea what's going on in the mind of their teen, you just have to cross your fingers and hope for the best IMO.


That would depend on the high school. I went to hubbard in Chicago. I loved it. Hated college.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

MrPants said:


> If parents aren't attentive to the child's development, right from the start and if their messaging to the kid isn't consistent to the child from day 1, then the kid is lost. Have you ever seen a child who isn't testing the limits from day 1? It has been that way forever.
> There's a lot less good parenting these days. How can you raise a child when you yourself are a self-entitled parent who's never had to sacrifice or work hard to achieve the truly important things in life. You love your children but wanting them to have a better, easier life than you had seems to create more problems, generation to generation, than it solves perhaps?


You're right. Could kids today win WW2


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Too many young parents these days seem focused only on what _they_ want. They seem to think that children aren't thinking beings at all, and that their actions have no effect on their kids whatsoever.


Sometimes it's time to lay down the law. Other times shut up and listen.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Kids, who perform armed robberies, and shooting at cops aren't usually up for the Nobel Peace Prize, when they mature. Sadly, these kids will live out their lives confined to penal institutions. However they got to this point, they are way too dangerous to be ever unsupervised.


They didn't bring guns they found them and yes there's a difference. There's actors who have been in prison before.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Who knows the true backstory of these children? If they have mental health issues, this may speak to child abuse. They may very well be deemed permanently unsuitable for release, far too dangerous to walk among us. Their youth does raise some questions, also. I hope every effort is made to unravel the mystery of why they perpetrated such crimes.
> 
> We need as much knowledge as possible, in order to learn ways in which we can hopefully lesson the chances of such behaviours happening again. I also hope these kids have the opportunity for mental health services while in jail.


Nicole's mother was arrested for child neglect


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> I must take a break from this horror. It has triggered my CPTSD. I will check it out when I can. I pray these children receive the help they so desperately need.


remember that song. 4 days in space and when you return it's the same damn place.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 14, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> Sometimes it's time to lay down the law. Other times shut up and listen.


If you're talking about parents, I totally agree. 

A lot of young parents I meet don't seem aware of what the laws are, for themselves or their kids. No one cleans their room, there's no set dinner time or washing your hands before you eat, and no one's the boss. It's every man/woman/child for themselves with constant yelling in the background.

I read a story recently about a woman who's 1 year-old drowned in the bath tub while she was playing a video game.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> You don't have to testify against any mob here to get a new identityif you've broken the law. Just do something that will tick the masses off,and you get free housing, and a new identity when you leave priosn , and if anyone discovers your real identity.. and takes any kind of action against you.._they  _will face charges..and possible jail time


witsec not RICO.


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## hollydolly (Jun 14, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> witsec not RICO.


I'm not in the USA... and the people who are given new identities here are not under the witness protection programas such .. they are the criminals.. the perpetrators...


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 14, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> Travis has threatened to kill people. Nicole never has. You tube's "left in bama" is the only place to find someone who doesn't want Nicole killed or given life in prison as an adult.


A devil's accomplice is just as guilty as the devil himself.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 14, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> I can separate mental illness from evil. But I'm painfully aware of the effects of both. It seems to me after living 71 years that evil people kill others while the mental cases kill themselves. 31 years of working in a hospital has taken effect on me. I know what a code in peds ICU means. I just want to run away and never come back. I hate trips to the ER. I should have never worked in a hospital. Hearing a mother scream at the top of her lungs MY BABY. Knowing there are no words, no drugs no magic bullets no hope. Physical pain isn't as bad as depression. I've seen too much. I read and listen to music. I hoped earning a second degree black belt in martial arts was for me. THE MAGIC BULLET. It wasn't. The day my best friend died still hurts. Sometimes life just sucks.


So long as human makeup is based on genetics, mental illness will exist.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> So long as human makeup is based on genetics, mental illness w





Shalimar said:


> Interesting omission


Well that site on you tube called left in bama. All videos and comments defending nicole have been removed. But if you want to wish her dead or in prison no censorship.


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## Sunny (Jun 14, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I'm not in the USA... and the people who are given new identities here are not under the witness protection programas such .. they are the criminals.. the perpetrators...


I didn't know that, Holly.  What is the purpose of giving the perps a new identity?


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> A devil's accomplice is just as guilty as the devil himself.


they knew each other less than 72 hours


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

So long as human makeup is based on genetics, mental illness will exist. If true why do you think I used the term hopeless.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 14, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> So long as human makeup is based on genetics, mental illness will exist. *If true why do you think I used the term hopeless.*





kleinmark50 said:


> No My second cousin had mental problems. She had a loving famiy; Was never put in a home. Her schooling was special education. She grew up. Got a job. Married and had two kids. Then for reasons I'll never understand as long as I lived. She killed herself. Mental illness scares me because *I don't know if there's hope.* No matter what. So unfair. So sad.


You didn't use the term "_hopeless_", your entry related to hope is found on page 3 (post #72)... "_I don't know if there's hope_".

I read into your words reservation, possibly that you still believe in the idea that mental illness can be eradicated or conquered.

I believe mental illness will plague mankind so long as mankind exists.

Wishing you well, Kleinmark50.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

The videos from left in bama showing Nicole have been removed. Massive censorship is in place. everyone who cares about this girl is silenced.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 14, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> You didn't use the term "_hopeless_", your entry related to hope is found on page 3 (post #72)... "_I don't know if there's hope_".
> 
> I read into your words reservation, possibly that you still believe in the idea that mental illness can be eradicated or conquered.
> 
> ...


thank you


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## mellowyellow (Jun 14, 2021)

I also wish you well and understand you are a compassionate person who wants the best for these kids.


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## hollydolly (Jun 15, 2021)

Sunny said:


> I didn't know that, Holly.  What is the purpose of giving the perps a new identity?


Using the 1998 Human Rights Act, killers and their accomplices can successfully argue the threats to their lives from vigilante groups are so great, they should be entitled to round-the-clock police protection and a new life when they are freed from prison.


Government guidelines demand  that those applying to the High Court for new identities as their release date approaches must prove their lives would be at risk without anonymity...which of course they always do through their lawyers before they're released


Their new lives are paid for by the taxpayer - sometimes costing millions of pounds for a new name, National Insurance number and passport.


Only a tiny group consisting of a senior official in the Public Protection Unit at the Ministry of Justice, up to two probation officers  ( usually just one ..) and a designated Detective working in the area where the criminal lives, know the criminals' original identity.

What really sticks in the craw tbh is that these people have usually committed heinous crimes...


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Using the 1998 Human Rights Act, killers and their accomplices can successfully argue the threats to their lives from vigilante groups are so great, they should be entitled to round-the-clock police protection and a new life when they are freed from prison.
> 
> 
> Government guidelines demand  that those applying to the High Court for new identities as their release date approaches must prove their lives would be at risk without anonymity...which of course they always do through their lawyers before they're released
> ...


Pounds? These kids can't afford one.


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## hollydolly (Jun 15, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> Pounds? These kids can't afford one.


££££'s sterling...not pounds in weight


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 15, 2021)

Gun residue. Hand swabs. Test fire gun. Chitwood made a mistake, When Nicole and Travis were on private property so were others, including  four boys who were NOT in the home. Nicole and Travis escaped the police with these boys. The boys entered the house with Nicole and Travis. Chitwood withheld this. These boys did the property damage. Chitwood told the press they were being fired upon from FOUR parts of the house. The timing and distance apart made two shooters impossible. 

There is no footage of these kids holding weapons. The boy surrendering and Nicole on the ground is IT. The officer who threw in the cellphone would have lost his badge had he really have been at risk. Someone emailed me videos of the ground action, aerial shots and Chitwood with press. They are time stamped. At the exact time Chitwood was talking to the press he was also talking to the lead officer.

One video of Nicole was at age 10. She looked pregnant. This video was removed. 1 minute and seven seconds was removed. I was emailed this deletion. "the boy and the girl are not holding weapons, what do you want me to do"      "Sit tight, were getting the SUPRESSION team ready." The suppression team is who fired over 60 shots at Nicole. This was a kill order NOT self defense.

So who send me those videos. There is a group of people investigating the link between foster care and childhood sex rings,  My many comments on social media caught their attention. This site is not my first. They told me almost no one cares anymore. They thought I deserved the truth. There was also no bullet holes in the trees where the officers hide waiting for the 33 to 39 minute mark when no sound aerial hide their intension to kill Nicole.

289 police calls in a year. NOW it makes sense. Chitwood wants Nicole dead. This I am sure of. So am I happy now. NO, I've never felt worst


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 16, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> You're right. Could kids today win WW2


Please read my last post.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 16, 2021)

The truth shall set you free. Don't count on it


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 16, 2021)

keeping score. How many posts want these kids to get help versus how many want them killed or imprisoned for life. The majority of people here want them dead or in jail. I found only one person who's posts have no hate who also posts many times. Can you guess who.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 16, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> *Desperate child. *


You are the only person here who has hope for this troubled and injured girl who is also not an adult. I'm reminded of an old song. "People make the world what it is" I'm not 100% sure Nicole is still alive. After all Chitwood did in fact give the kill order. A child is laying on the hurt in pain and the bullets won't stop. OVER 60 ROUNDS fired at a child. OMG. Does anyone care anymore?


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## Sunny (Jun 16, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> My sentiment to a T!
> 
> Too dangerous to ever smell or taste freedom ever again!
> 
> ...



Amazing how some of us manage to find new levels of sickening hatred.  Maybe this 3-year-old should also receive a lethal injection, Marg?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/florid...fa-accidentally-shoots-young-sister-1.5439764


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 16, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Amazing how some of us manage to find new levels of sickening hatred.  Maybe this 3-year-old should also receive a lethal injection, Marg?
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/florid...fa-accidentally-shoots-young-sister-1.5439764


Or shot her over 60 times. Maybe life in prison. Just make sure you try her as an adult.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 16, 2021)

suppression team definition. When the boys get together to see how many bullets they can pump into a 14 year girls body. In self defense.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 16, 2021)

I'd love to go one on one with that piece of shit chitwood. I may be 71 years old but I'm also a second degree black belt. After about 5 minutes he'd be screaming like a teenage girl that just got shot


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 16, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Using the 1998 Human Rights Act, killers and their accomplices can successfully argue the threats to their lives from vigilante groups are so great, they should be entitled to round-the-clock police protection and a new life when they are freed from prison.
> 
> 
> Government guidelines demand  that those applying to the High Court for new identities as their release date approaches must prove their lives would be at risk without anonymity...which of course they always do through their lawyers before they're released
> ...


In America RICO goes after the mob. Those who testify against the mob go into Witsec. They have a new identity paid for by the government. People wanted by groups like BLM or antifa have no protection


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## hollydolly (Jun 16, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> In America RICO goes after the mob. Those who testify against the mob go into Witsec. They have a new identity paid for by the government. People wanted by groups like BLM or antifa have no protection


yes I understand that's how it works in the USA...


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 17, 2021)

The hearing for Travis was aired with no blurs. Nicole face covered. That person in bed could have been anybody. No updates. Total blackout. videos removed. No comments allowed. Are they setting up another suicide? Who is they I wonder. 108 people with dirt on Hillary are dead. I wonder what the count is for those questioning foster care. Or homes for troubled kids. Oh and my source of unaired videos. GONE. As is his Nicole videos on you tube. And the videos on facebook. GONE also. Communism. It's here. America is a nation of sheep. Where there are no questions allowed there will be no answers.

This site, don't ask.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 17, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> yes I understand that's how it works in the USA...


Does it work? That's the way it is but does it work? RICO and Witsec work together to both attack the mob, and protect the mob. Arrest criminals with the help of criminals.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 17, 2021)

Talked to a friend of mind of who is a shrink. So Doc. what's wrong with Nicole? Her answer. She suffers from PTSD from being traumatized as a child. She shows all the signs. Anger and aggression. Anxiety. Depression. Fear. Isolation. and self destructive behavior. Can she be helped? The question is will she be helped. Foster care is a mixed bag. It helps and it doesn't. It cost the state less to kill her than to fix her. If she can be fixed. The police should not have done what they did. They had their orders. It'd sad. 

So I asked, What would you do, Her answer. I'd want to help her but I might also fear her. She's unstable. Not evil but she losses control. So what's a wounded child like as an adult?

She told me my life has damaged me in a way. I don't like people who disagree with me. I hate opposing opinions. And I have anger issues. Some people have even called me a trouble maker. She told me I'm not evil but I have a dark side.

Dark side? Protecting myself and people I care about is not a dark side. Hating a man who would order a child to be riddled is not a dark side, Not caring is the real dark side.


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## hollydolly (Jun 17, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> Does it work? That's the way it is but does it work? RICO and Witsec work together to both attack the mob, and protect the mob. Arrest criminals with the help of criminals.


I presume that's a rehotic question, being as I don't live nor ever have lived in the USA


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 18, 2021)

I'll see you guys later. Much later. The first posts all had replies. Then the number dropped as people stopped caring. Many never cared in the first place. Few looked her up on youtube or on tik tok. theloveingfamily shows the girl Chitwood wants to kill. She's a wounded child Maybe someone on another site cares. Not here. Later


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## RadishRose (Jun 21, 2021)

Well, that's a mature, responsible, level-headed example of moderation worthy of this forum...not!

Tantrum, lol.


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## RadishRose (Jun 21, 2021)

I don't understand the political cartoon of Harry Reid.


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## Pepper (Jun 21, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> I think once kids get to high school, no matter whether it's private or public, you've lost them.  Parents have absolutely no idea what's going on in the mind of their teen, you just have to cross your fingers and hope for the best IMO.


If we spent some time remembering ourselves at that age, not with a veil of how you think it might have been, but actually how it was; what you felt, and why, you'd get along a LOT better with kids. Just honestly remember yourself without judgement of how you see it now or how it shoulda coulda been and it will open the door to real communication.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 22, 2021)

Pepper said:


> If we spent some time remembering ourselves at that age, not with a veil of how you think it might have been, but actually how it was; what you felt, and why, you'd get along a LOT better with kids. Just honestly remember yourself without judgement of how you see it now or how it shoulda coulda been and it will open the door to real communication.


Nicole was pregnant at age 10. Bonnie Parker killed 14 cops. There's many videos showing Nicole with deep bruises. She was the youngest and only white girl at the home where the older girls beat her. She went in to foster care because her mother was arrested not because she did anything wrong. She was 7 years old.


This site is mostly about life in prison. Lethal injection and giving up on children. These are who's lost, who don't care, who have no problem watching the police shoot over 60 rounds at a troubled 14 year old child. From the hospital to an adult prison. At 14 years old. Pepper. Your comment will be scorned by those who just want those kids dead or their whole lives destroyed.

I spend hours looking everywhere I could to find the truth. I didn't look here. It's not here. Mostly nothing but hate here. Foster care at 7. Pregnant at 10. Shot at 14. In an adult prison today. No understanding. Or pity. No mercy.

I'm just glad I found people better than the jackals who lurk here. Bye


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## Sunny (Jun 22, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> I don't understand the political cartoon of Harry Reid.


Neither do I, RadishRose.  The response to an article about two disturbed, out of control adolescents is to show the Capitol in ruins (which it nearly was after Jan. 6) and blaming it on Harry Reid, of all people? What is the connection?

And isn't that cartoon "political?"


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## RadishRose (Jun 22, 2021)

Sunny said:


> bNeither do I, RadishRose.  The response to an article about two disturbed, out of control adolescents is to show the Capitol in ruins (which it nearly was after Jan. 6) and blaming it on Harry Reid, of all people? What is the connection?
> 
> And isn't that cartoon "political?"


Well  @Sunny, Aunt Marge's post has "disappeared", 
It's better off gone, anyway.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 22, 2021)

win231 said:


> Both kids have an "extensive mental health history."  And they lived in foster homes.  We don't know how they were treated, but we do know what goes on in some foster homes.


You really want to know how Nicole was treated. She was pregnant at 10 years. Beaten and then shot . She's in an adult prison right now with little or no hope


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## Ruthanne (Jun 22, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> Well, that's a mature, responsible, level-headed example of moderation worthy of this forum...not!
> 
> Tantrum, lol.


Well, who amongst us is perfect?


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## Della (Jun 24, 2021)

kleinmark50 said:


> I'll see you guys later. Much later. The first posts all had replies. Then the number dropped as people stopped caring.


I'm one of the ones who posted with sympathy and hope for the two on the first page.  Then I stopped posting, not because I "stopped caring,"  but because I had said my piece.  Sometimes I get carried away in back and forth arguments, falsely thinking I can change someone else's opinion but this time I didn't.  

The number of posts on an internet thread don't prove how much people care and they don't change anything. 

If you want to help girls like Nicole, vote.  Vote yes on propositions to increase mental health initiatives in your town. Vote for more and better child care systems. Vote in favor of gun control so kids like Nicole and that poor three year old can't so easily get their hands on guns, and idiots like the one who put his gun between the couch cushions go to jail.  That's "caring" not endlessly arguing with Aunt Marg.


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 24, 2021)

Della said:


> I'm one of the ones who posted with sympathy and hope for the two on the first page.  Then I stopped posting, not because I "stopped caring,"  but because I had said my piece.  Sometimes I get carried away in back and forth arguments, falsely thinking I can change someone else's opinion but this time I didn't.
> 
> The number of posts on an internet thread don't prove how much people care and they don't change anything.
> 
> If you want to help girls like Nicole, vote.  Vote yes on propositions to increase mental health initiatives in your town. Vote for more and better child care systems. Vote in favor of gun control so kids like Nicole and that poor three year old can't so easily get their hands on guns, and idiots like the one who put his gun between the couch cushions go to jail.  That's "caring" not endlessly arguing with Aunt Marg.


I sent Nicole a gift basket in jail. She's inmate #1087471. I joined Troubled.org. I emailed Donald Trump and Desantos. I called Volusia corrections. I exchanged emails with people who care about the more than 100,000 kids in foster homes. Many are missing.Have been raped, Beaten left as criminals. Nicole was badly bruised. Pregnant at 10. She's had no life, no hope, no future. Then officers fired almost 70  rounds at this little girl. She didn't steal puppy's. She took a neighbors adult dog, to love. Chitwood lied his ass off. All comments came from him and the media. Nicole had no defense. No one could help. I'll help.

This breaks my heart. She didn't seek weapons to hurt anyone. Facebook has videos of Nicole. You can see the bruises. I used yahoo's search engine to ask. Will anybody help Nicole Jackson Maldonado and low and behold. MY POST WAS THERE. It had a link to seniorforums.com. Maybe if this site has more members who care I'd stop hearing about killing her and sending her to prison for life.

If she was adopted at 7 and given a puppy she wouldn't be in an adult prison days removed from critical care. It cost 19.99 for 500 minutes phone time in jail. I can pay that. gofundme won't allow help for Nicole. YET. Chitwood is full of hate. Time to email my ass off now. Because I care


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 26, 2021)

Chitwood just admitted. Nicole did  not burn down a half-way house. She also did not steal puppies. She never hurt anyone in her life. Just happened to find guns. RIGHT. Look at that house. Breaking in doesn't look that easy. 4 Boys did $1000,000 in damages to that house. NOT Nicole or Travis. Lies come easy. So does lethal force. The DA said it's not about the evidence. Chitwood lied his evil ass off. I don't expect any comments here. I can see who cares. Not many. I sent Nicole a gift. This breaks my heart


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## Sunny (Jun 26, 2021)

> I spend hours looking everywhere I could to find the truth. I didn't look here. It's not here. Mostly nothing but hate here. Foster care at 7. Pregnant at 10. Shot at 14. In an adult prison today. No understanding. Or pity. No mercy.
> 
> I'm just glad I found people better than the jackals who lurk here. Bye
> 
> ...


Kleinmark, maybe if you stopped telling us you are leaving (but you don't leave), and stopped screaming at us, we could have a real dialogue?


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## kleinmark50 (Jun 26, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Kleinmark, maybe if you stopped telling us you are leaving (but you don't leave), and stopped screaming at us, we could have a real dialogue?


Well excuse me for being upset when a 14 year is shot at over 60  times because being raped and beaten made her unhappy. But don't say anything against the people here wanted her dead or in prison for life. Also on yahoo my quote was on their search engine and I wanted to see if any new members had a heart. You don't


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## #freenicolejackson (Sep 30, 2021)

Judycat said:


> They thought it would be cool to be thugs since life is so boring. Now they should miss boring. Unless adult dopes step in and claim they are just young kids with their whole lives before them and don't let the law come down hard on them.


no its because of their life they fell between the cracks they aint trying to be thugz or gangsters


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## #freenicolejackson (Sep 30, 2021)

Judycat said:


> They thought it would be cool to be thugs since life is so boring. Now they should miss boring. Unless adult dopes step in and claim they are just young kids with their whole lives before them and don't let the law come down hard on them.


no their lives were ruined and had a bad child hood great kids mad respect what the y did was a mistake everyone deserves a second chance they aint trying to be thugz or gangsters they just wanted to get away and feel free probaply didnt expect to get into a gun fight and plus if i was in the situation i would have done the same.


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## Jim Court (Feb 9, 2022)

I know Bob comes across as being overly aggressive which can turn people off. His frustration is a result of overly aggressive police action which many of the errant "facts" expressed by the police which are factually wrong. This whole event appears to be designed to silence a young lady that was apparently pregnant at ten years old and very familiar with what amounts to sex trafficking done not by criminals but instead by those who are supposed to be the protectors of our society. Like most of you I am generally supportive of law enforcement. Crime is constantly growing and general morality is in a deep decline.  I agree that this girl grew up in an extremely dysfunctional home. Who wouldn't be impacted. The claims about her have been extremely overblown and embellished to serve a hidden agenda. I also believe that Florida's legal system goes to the extreme and often tramples on what is right and fair. In many ways not much different from Red China and other authoritarian countries. Are you really willing to let freedoms to disappear. Plea bargains force the innocent to reluctantly to accept findings of guilt. Extremes in the legal system are never good. We cannot hang everybody accused nor can we readily let those out on bail for violent crimes.
I do not always agree with Bob but I do find his research to be thorough and deeply analytical. He does have a fairly aggressive personality and does exhibit frustration. How else would a seventy year old achieve a black belt in karate. I know Bob. He is a good and decent and moral man, with a mind that won't shut off. Apparently he was born that way. As leader of the high school debate team he was invincible. I think people should read the facts that he writes and look past his name calling. He truly is a warrior who lacks social grace. A straight shooter if you ever met one.


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## ManontheHill (Mar 28, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> While I can certainly understand your rage and pain, I stop far short of capital punishment re anyone, particularly children. It is barbaric, and has never been proven to deter anyone. A revenge society is not a democratic/just society
> 
> If, Divine forbid, our country ever considers reinstating the abomination of Gov’t sanctioned murder, Canadians from across the board will fill the streets to protest. We will embrace civil disobedience, go to jail, whatever it takes. This is not my Canada.



Capital punishment deters that person from commiting crime. 100% of the time. I don't know how you can think it doesn't. Is it better to lock them up like animals?


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## Shalimar (Mar 28, 2022)

ManontheHill said:


> Capital punishment deters that person from commiting crime. 100% of the time. I don't know how you can think it doesn't. Is it better to lock them up like animals?


What about those executed individuals later found to be innocent? Yes, incarceration is preferable to gov‘t sanctioned murder. It is not necessary to have prisons where inmates are treated like animals. The Scandinavian countries do not follow that model.


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