# Have you done your estate planning?



## retiredtraveler (Jan 8, 2018)

I'm pretty new to this forum, so I don't know if this subject has been discussed. We have a number of investors here, or at the least, people with some assets that could be passed on. I have read a great deal of 'bad news' that few people have done estate planning.
  DW and I originally had a will, that due to family changes, became quite outdated. We finally took the Suze Orman advice and set up a Revocable Trust for each of us. It took a lawyer and some expense to do this, but now, if one or both of us passes on, the 'handover' of assets is quite seamless, and definitely out of the judicial system.
  I would urge those procrastinators (and we did procrastinate too) to 'take care of business' and keep your estate out of probate. Have a trust is not simply for 'rich people' --- it's for anyone with some assets to pass on.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 8, 2018)

What is a the value/purpose of a trust, other than hiding assets from the government so a person can qualify for medicaid.

I've used beneficiaries on most of my major assets to automatically transfer them at the time of my death.  I have a file of things that need to be done when I croak but I really should formalize some things in a will.  I also need to find a person willing to take on the job of settling my affairs, I hate to leave it in the hands of an attorney that will use it as a cash cow and milk it for all it's worth.


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## Camper6 (Jan 8, 2018)

I bought a will kit on CD Rom

It said it is legal in all Canadian Provinces.

Will Kit on CD Rom.

Maybe there is a U.S. version.


I have a will at my lawyer now however I want to add another executor (joint exectors) as my only son lives in the U.S. and that would add a lot of travelling. 

But my lawyer charges a fortune for changing.  I'll give him a call.


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## C'est Moi (Jan 8, 2018)

Yes, we had our wills drawn up several years ago, though we need to have some updates done since our daughters both married in 2017.  Also have arranged with our current financial advisors to help our children navigate our investments when the time comes.


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## Knight (Jan 8, 2018)

When it comes to distrubution of assets as has been pointed out a revocable trust is one way to ease our minds in what each perceives to suit what they want to have happen when they are gone. It's hard enough to get young people to plan for their senior years probably harder to get them to realize that they have options in what to do should they aquire something to leave to heirs.  


For us a will works. Not the typical lawyer written boiler plate version but one with what we want to happen. Distribution of bank accounts and insurance in particular well documented. 
Aside from that our assets are set up with a sequence of distribution no matter which goes 1st. or both at the same time. Should anything change a codicil will accomplish incorporating change. 


We keep a running list of financial changes. That list is kept in a safe deposit box that all 3 sons are listed on and have signed signature cards. We prefer use of a lawyer to ASSIST in making sure all state & federal legal requirements are met.


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## Bullie76 (Jan 8, 2018)

If I were married, I would be more interested in estate planning. I do have beneficiaries listed on my investment accts and have a simple will to take care of property. But that's about it.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 8, 2018)

We have wills that were made several years ago. We also have one daughter listed as beneficiary on our Edward Jones account. That way she will have access to funds to pay expenses without having to wait for probate.


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## retiredtraveler (Jan 8, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> What is a the value/purpose of a trust, other than hiding assets from the government so a person can qualify for medicaid.



Nothing hidden. There is no probate and everything is transferred _immediately. 
_So, by placing all our assets in trust, the person left has access to all assets that day. No going to a lawyer, no court, etc. In many states,_ probate_ is very expensive. It's simply a smart financial move to make it easier for everyone involved and to save potential probate costs.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 8, 2018)

retiredtraveler said:


> Nothing hidden. There is no probate and everything is transferred _immediately.
> _So, by placing all our assets in trust, the person left has access to all assets that day. No going to a lawyer, no court, etc. In many states,_ probate_ is very expensive. It's simply a smart financial move to make it easier for everyone involved and to save potential probate costs.



I did some reading and it appears that I did not take into account the differences between an irrevocable medicaid trust and a revocable trust.

  I can see where a revocable trust might be helpful if you have a large number of heirs.  In my case the use of beneficiaries on the accounts is sufficient.  At some point I still need to identify a person to handle the odds and ends of my estate.  When I die my actual estate minus investment accounts should qualify as a small estate, under $30,000.00.  A small estate in my area only requires a simple affidavit and a request for the probate court to appoint a voluntary administrator.  A voluntary administrator is authorized to pay outstanding bills, dispose of assets and make distributions to the heirs in accordance with a will.  The biggest challenge that I face is identifying a person to handle this for me and act as my voluntary administrator.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 9, 2018)

" The biggest challenge that I face is identifying a person to handle this for me and act as my voluntary administrator"

Ain't that the truth  Fortunately we have a couple of daughters we trust completely. There is one daughter we don't trust at all and a son who is honest but we don't believe he could handle the job. So picking one was easy for us.


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## mathjak107 (Jan 10, 2018)

please do not do this stuff on your own .

nothing is ever a problem until it is a problem .

the canned forms on line can be so bad . we already experienced 2 documents done by general practitioners  that had defects and caused us lots of grief . so see an estate attorney .

also be careful using  revocable trusts. i see lot of people putting their house in them  to avoid probate .

that takes a home ,which is a  protected asset if medicaid is needed and unprotects it .


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## debbie in seattle (Jan 10, 2018)

With my husbands impending death, we changed our will over to a Family Trust to avoid probate.    In the end, a will and a Family Trust costs the same except with a will it’s at the end and with the Family Trust it’s up front, at least for us.


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## Pappy (Jan 10, 2018)

Wills done years ago. Three way split between the kids. My youngest son is the excuto


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## Pappy (Jan 10, 2018)

Damn.. hit the wrong button I guess. Meant to say executor. Funeral, none. Body goes to Science Care.


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## mathjak107 (Jan 11, 2018)

to give you an example of some of the issues heirs can hit  when they do things on their own or use these general practitioners instead of actual estate attorneys :

much of what protects your wishes is not even in the documents. it is protocol and is the questions asked at the signing in front of witnesses.

state laws change on the fly . we had a co-worker hit a snag because the internet form used was not the new statutory form required as mentioned below.

we hit a snag on the refinance of a house we inherited through a simple will.

it read i leave my house and possessions to my child beth.

the title company stopped the refinance since a word was missing. that word was ONLY " as in only child.

well i had to pay all the attorneys for the day and lost my rate while we got affidavits there were no other children.

we had a court rule a trust defective as well as it lacked a sentence relating to predeceasing the parents.


as the judge told us , it is clear what the intentions were but he cannot re-write history or add missing words.



some of the issues those who use canned documents in our state ,ny run in to are :

Preparing and executing a valid health care proxy provides a good illustration. The health care proxy is a document that allows an individual (the “principal”) to appoint an agent to make health care decisions in case he/she becomes incapacitated. The main purpose of the health care proxy is to appoint an agent. There is a presumption that the agent knows the principal’s wishes. Nonetheless, according to New York State case law, if a principal’s wishes regarding the withholding of artificial nutrition and hydration are not articulated, an agent will not be able to make such decision. Based on this case law, it is imperative for the principal to set forth his/her wishes regarding the administering of artificial nutrition and hydration either in the actual health care proxy or in a separate living will. Failure to do this can result in unforeseen consequences – which is exactly what the principal was trying to avoid in the first place. Secondly, many individuals erroneously believe that they can appoint more than one agent at a time on a health care proxy. This would make the document faulty because only one agent at a time can make medical decisions. A person drafting a health care proxy can add language to avoid insulting other family members, but again- this requires the help of someone with experience. Finally, the document must be witnessed by two individuals in order for it to be validly recognized. A person should not have his agent, spouse or child be a witness to the signing.

We see even more problems in the area of powers of attorney. The main thrust of a power of attorney is to appoint an agent to act on an individual’s behalf with respect to financial matters in case such individual becomes incapacitated. Many people innocently refer to this document as one that is “simple” to prepare. This could not be further from the truth. Firstly, New York State passed legislation effective September 2009 in an attempt to create a statutory form that would be uniformly accepted. This legislation was the result of tremendous abuse that was found in this particular area, with some appointed agents taking advantage of the disabled and elderly.

The new power of attorney law results in a much lengthier document, and significantly restricts the actual power given to the agent over financial matters. If transfers are to be made on behalf of the principal, a separate gift rider must be executed. The gift rider must specifically articulate the agent’s power to make gifts to himself/herself or to third parties. Further, any additional powers beyond those enumerated in the statute, must be added to a modification section. Finally, while the law mandates banks, brokerage houses and other financial institutions to recognize the power of attorney, the form utilized must be statutory. Accordingly, if someone decides to cut corners and download a form from the internet, this may result in a tremendous disservice because if the form is not statutory, it does not have to be legally recognized. The power of attorney is an extremely important tool for estate and elder law practitioner. If the principal incorrectly drafts and/or executes this form, his/her ultimate plans regarding Medicaid eligibility or gifting to loved ones could be completely stymied. It is imperative to have this document prepared by an experienced practitioner.

A last will and testament is yet another document that must be prepared under the supervision of any experienced attorney. After the person who executed the will dies (the “decedent”), the will gets admitted to probate through surrogate’s court so that the decedent’s wishes can ultimately be fulfilled. Through the probate process, the will is reviewed and the court checks to make sure the will was drafted and executed properly. The number of witnesses, the affidavit they sign and the way the will is fastened are some examples of what the court reviews. Any mistakes, such as the removal of a staple or an ambiguous bequest can result in unnecessary delays, costly legal fees, and at worse, an inability to complete the probate process.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 18, 2018)

I have an updated will, living will and POA in place. I also found out that I needed a separate POA for my investments.  My son has access to a couple of brokerages via his own log-in in the event he has to remove money to pay for a nursing home for me. I thought I was set but Mathjak brought up some points that I'm going to check with an attorney about. In addition, my cemetery plot including the opening and closing fees will be paid in full this April. My two insurance policies should more than cover the funeral.


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