# Why REAL Men Remove Their Hats



## SifuPhil (Jan 8, 2013)

A few miles away from my little town in PA lies a city called Hazleton, an old and now racially-diverse town. A long string of robberies at the local convenience stores has caused shopkeepers to put up bilingual "PLEASE REMOVE HOODS" signs on their front doors, because of the difficulty in identifying hoodie-wearing suspects in robberies. 

It was mentioned that the custom of men removing their hats indoors has died out with the backward baseball cap.

I can't find the original local article to link to right now, but my response to the article was "Are the shopkeepers willing to lose the business if they enforce this rule?"

1. Do you think this is prejudiced or profiling?
2. If you were a victimized shopkeeper would you put up a sign like this?
3. How would you enforce it, short of having a law passed?


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 8, 2013)

Those signs are up in some stores in my area too, lots of hoodies caught on security cameras.  Amusing was the tape measure along the side of the door when I walked in to a dollar-type store, that way they can also guess a more accurate height on the robbers.    If I was a store owner, I would put up a sign like that, especially if I was recently victimized by a hooded bandit.


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## TWHRider (Jan 8, 2013)

Gotta agree with Seabreeze.

I suppose the good folks of Hazleton are going to let this fall into the same category as when schools try to get uniforms into the schools and some parents get their underwear in a twist because uniforms are "taking away their child's individuality".  I see it as money saver, keeps all the kids on the same page during school, nobodys skirts are hiked up, tops un-buttoned or pants falling down around the kid's knees

Take the hoods off when entering a store kids - I wouldn't have a bit of problem putting the sign up.  Aren't store owners still allowed to post "no shoes, no shirt, no service"?  Just add "no hoodies covering your head" to it:triumphant:


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## SifuPhil (Jan 8, 2013)

TWHRider said:


> ... Take the hoods off when entering a store kids - I wouldn't have a bit of problem putting the sign up.  Aren't store owners still allowed to post "no shoes, no shirt, no service"?  Just add "no hoodies covering your head" to it:triumphant:



I just have the feeling that there's going to be a visit from the local anti-discrimination groups - it's happened before, for lesser "transgressions". Hazleton in particular has to step lightly, because they've had a lot of lawsuits over discrimination of all sorts. I'm not saying they were always in the right, but when it comes to security I don't see any reason why it couldn't be included in the shirts/shoes clause ... one perp, just before he robbed the store, when asked to remove his hood said "I can't - I'm cold".

Poor little kid. My heart goes out to him. I hope he took a hot chocolate in his haul, too.


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## TWHRider (Jan 9, 2013)

---



SifuPhil said:


> I just have the feeling that there's going to be a visit from the local anti-discrimination groups - it's happened before, for lesser "transgressions". Hazleton in particular has to step lightly, because they've had a lot of lawsuits over discrimination of all sorts.*There's a big part of the problem - somebody is always whining they've been slighted so they get a lawyer, whether they're in the right or not.  Generally they just need smacked alongside the head.*
> 
> I'm not saying they were always in the right, but when it comes to security I don't see any reason why it couldn't be included in the shirts/shoes clause ... one perp, just before he robbed the store, when asked to remove his hood said "I can't - I'm cold".
> 
> Poor little kid. My heart goes out to him. I hope he took a hot chocolate in his haul, too.*Poor whittle kid - me too- lollollol*



I've heard of Hazleton, but originally being from Mercer County on the OH/PA border I'm not that familiar with the inner workings of Luzerne County.

I can say that, to-date, the Good Ole Boy County I now live in is not that bad yet.  I could tell you current day "1950's-style" stories that might not drop your jaw but would raise your eyebrows - lol lol lol


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## R. Zimm (Jan 9, 2013)

If they are not discriminating based on who is under the hood then they have every right. Too much of modern "political correctness" just aids criminal activity anyway. Have you noticed that most newspapers and local TV do not describe perpetrators of crimes musch anymore? They do not want to appear to be saying that one group is more likely to commit crimes and get sued by said anti-discrimination group(s).

It is sad when most folks bring up their kids to be honest and law abiding citizens but the minority who raise hoodlums complain the most about their kid being accused.


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## maybenot (Jan 9, 2013)

Banks,servos' and some smaller family shops have that rule and I agree with it, most service stations round here now employ a security guard at night too
as incidences of robbing and thuggery are rising lately and believe it or not some of the 'criminals' are 13/15 yrs old, where're the parents?


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## Elzee (Jan 10, 2013)

My library has a sign that says 'please remove hoods and hats'  which I take it to be a safety issue. Not having grown up in the USA, I don't associate the clothing - 'hooded fleece jackets' with any particular type of people. I have a hooded fleece jacket and wear it quite frequently. I don't wear the hood very often, and don't pull it over my face so far that people can't see my face. 

So, one way to be able to identify people, for the sake of safety, is to make sure that no one enters a public building who covers or hides their face. 

If my local library can put up such a sign, I suppose small businesses can as well.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 10, 2013)

I used to work in a warehouse that was broken into, and the thief broke into the vending machines and stole the money there.  They had security cameras, but all they could see was someone with a hooded sweatshirt, the face could not be seen...don't think they were ever caught.


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## Rotem55 (Jan 27, 2013)

Idk, Probb.


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## FishWisher (Jan 30, 2013)

A local bank, Bank of the West, an international bank owned a French corp I believe, has been robbed many times here. (We're between Stockton and Modesto, CA, a crime capital of some sort, often making worst crime and/or worst place to live lists.)

They have a sign on the front door asking all who enter to remove hoodie, sunglasses, and baseball caps. And there are cameras at every teller window and more.

And who can blame 'em?!


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## That Guy (Apr 12, 2013)

Forget the hooded sweatshirt.  With all the concealed weaponry being carried, I say everybody shops nekkid!


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## SifuPhil (Apr 12, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Forget the hooded sweatshirt.  With all the concealed weaponry being carried, I say everybody shops nekkid!



Wow ...

... that gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "100% Off" ...


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## That Guy (Apr 12, 2013)

Could get ugly . . . and down right scary.  But, we would all be much safer...


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## SifuPhil (Apr 12, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Could get ugly . . . and down right scary.  But, we would all be much safer...



I'm not too sure of that - I remember being at a clothing-optional beach in Rockaway, NY where the majority of people could be legally classified as "lethal weapons".


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## Happyflowerlady (May 8, 2013)

I am pretty sure that I have read that some places require people to remove any kind of a hat, because some robbers have hidden a weapon under the hat, and then  used it to rob the store. I think that having to remove a hat or a hoodie makes really good sense, and when you think about the fact that , often, innocent bystanders are injured, kidnapped, or even killed, in these robberies, if I were shopping in a store, I would want them to have hats/hoodies removed, for my own safety. If I am wearing a hoodie, I have no problem taking it off when I enter the store, because, I certainly do not want to even resemble a robber,  so I am all for this.
I do not see how it can be called discrimination, as long as it applies to everyone, and if it prevents crimes, then it is a great idea. Even if it does not deter a crime, then it will at least make it easier to identify the thief.


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## SifuPhil (May 9, 2013)

I think a lot of it depends upon WHERE the store is located; right now the most concern is in the inner-city areas, the 'hoods, so to speak, where most of the population dresses that way.

I think it would be less of a problem if you were somewhere where most people dressed in, say, blue jeans and flannel shirts or business attire. 

Had a guy come into the convenience store I use just the other day with his hood up and dark glasses on - of course the temps are in the 60's and 70's now, so no reason for that hood to be up. I slipped behind him as he got to the counter, wearing my OWN dark glasses, and just PRAYED he'd do something.

He finally looked over his shoulder, saw me perched there, and just threw his stuff on the counter and left. 

Did I avert a robbery in the making? I don't know, but the store owners thanked me profusely for being there.


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## That Guy (May 9, 2013)

h


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## Lyn (May 9, 2013)

We just had a bank robbery by two women with their entire faces covered save their eyes. Just the covering of a face should be enough to stop entry into at least a bank.


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## SeaBreeze (May 9, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> Had a guy come into the convenience store I use just the other day with his hood up and dark glasses on - of course the temps are in the 60's and 70's now, so no reason for that hood to be up. I slipped behind him as he got to the counter, wearing my OWN dark glasses, and just PRAYED he'd do something.
> 
> He finally looked over his shoulder, saw me perched there, and just threw his stuff on the counter and left.
> 
> Did I avert a robbery in the making? I don't know, but the store owners thanked me profusely for being there.



You da Man Sifu!! :coolthumb:


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## SifuPhil (May 9, 2013)

Thanks, folks, but it was simply a case of intimidation. But hey - if I can help just by doing THE GLARE (learned from a hundred girlfriends) instead of getting physical, all the better.

And yeah, That Guy, go ahead - call me out for my pacifism. layful: See, Taoists prefer peaceful solutions, but they also know that war is inevitable and never shy away from it.

... or _something_ like that ... I'm tired ...


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## That Guy (May 9, 2013)

Lyn said:


> We just had a bank robbery by two women with their entire faces covered save their eyes. Just the covering of a face should be enough to stop entry into at least a bank.



We had two young women rob a local bank not too long ago just wearing sunglasses and smiling and laughing as if it were just a big joke.  Obviously, the were caught shortly thereafter.


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## Anne (May 9, 2013)

Lyn said:


> We just had a bank robbery by two women with their entire faces covered save their eyes. Just the covering of a face should be enough to stop entry into at least a bank.



I read something about that happening somewhere, Lyn, but they can't make Muslim women uncover their faces; that would be discrimination.  How could they get around that, I wonder.


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## Ozarkgal (May 9, 2013)

Just read that mail carriers are refusing to deliver mail in parts of Brooklyn, as some of the buildings are so crime infested they are afraid for their lives.  Yet, although the residents are the ones creating the situation, they're complaining because they have to hook it on down to the P.O. to get their mail.  

Don'tcha just feel for those thugs and dealers that are being inconvenienced

"..neither rain nor snow nor heat of day nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their annointed tasks".......but fear hoodlums, dealers and gangstas..now that's another story


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## SifuPhil (May 10, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Just read that mail carriers are refusing to deliver mail in parts of Brooklyn, as some of the buildings are so crime infested they are afraid for their lives.  Yet, although the residents are the ones creating the situation, they're complaining because they have to hook it on down to the P.O. to get their mail.
> 
> Don'tcha just feel for those thugs and dealers that are being inconvenienced
> 
> "..neither rain nor snow nor heat of day nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their annointed tasks".......but fear hoodlums, dealers and gangstas..now that's another story



For a while - I think it might have been in the '70's - even the fire department was refusing to respond to calls in certain areas of the South Bronx, because the locals were throwing garbage cans and cinder blocks down on them from the rooftops.

The cops had to end up riding shotgun on every call.

Me? I would have let the whole place burn down and just put up a big *FIRE SALE!!!* sign ...


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## That Guy (May 10, 2013)

I wouldn't say all the residents are creating the situation.  Many are just poor folk stuck with living there.

Went to NYC with a buddy in 1967 to be his best man at his wedding.  His fiance lived in Harlem and when we arrived at the projects and were getting out of the car, he turned to me and said, "Remember this is Harlem and you're white."  It was a lovely wedding, though . . .


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## That Guy (May 10, 2013)

???


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## SifuPhil (May 10, 2013)

That Guy said:


> I wouldn't say all the residents are creating the situation.  Many are just poor folk stuck with living there.
> 
> Went to NYC with a buddy in 1967 to be his best man at his wedding.  His fiance lived in Harlem and when we arrived at the projects and were getting out of the car, he turned to me and said, "Remember this is Harlem and you're white."  It was a lovely wedding, though . . .



Heh, heh ... I used to walk (when I was feeling energetic) from Yonkers to Manhattan's Chinatown - about 15 miles - when I was a lad, and my route would take me through Harlem. I too stood out like an albino spider on a chocolate cake, and whether it was because I didn't look menacing enough, didn't look rich enough, or it was just true that the angels look out for idiots and fools, I'm not sure, but nothing ever happened to me there.

Now mid-town and lower Manhattan and the outer boroughs, THAT was a different story.


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## That Guy (May 11, 2013)

SifuPhil;11665 it was just true that the angels look out for idiots and fools said:
			
		

> It's true.  There's been something or someone watching over me all my life.  Survived too many bad situations to count.  Thank-you my angel.


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## TWHRider (May 11, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> Thanks, folks, but it was simply a case of intimidation.



I learned a gazillion years ago to alway make "them" think you're about one notch crazier than they are.

That being said, I know some very sweet-faced women that could not pull off wearing one of my biker T's into the bar where the EXIT light had been shot out, and get away with peacefully putting a quarter in the pool table, much less order a drink.  I never considered myself a "rough customer" but people were never quite sure what to make of me, so pretty much left me alone.


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## SifuPhil (May 11, 2013)

TWHRider said:


> I learned a gazillion years ago to alway make "them" think you're about one notch crazier than they are.
> 
> That being said, I know some very sweet-faced women that could not pull off wearing one of my biker T's into the bar where the EXIT light had been shot out, and get away with peacefully putting a quarter in the pool table, much less order a drink.  I never considered myself a "rough customer" but people were never quite sure what to make of me, so pretty much left me alone.



So very true. A comic once said that if you want to walk the streets of NYC without being accosted, you should forget to shower for a few weeks and push a shopping cart full of garbage.

Of course, the comic said this in the '70's, before they actually started beating-up homeless people, so maybe that particular brand of insanity wouldn't apply now. But I've had my times - when I was bouncing, as one confrontation was coming to a head with a mountain of a man I suddenly broke out my "gay voice" (I do a superb one - don't ask!) and he was so confused that the other bouncers had time to back me up and escort him outside.

One piece of "act crazy" advice I never had any use for, though, was when they told women to act crazy, drool and wet themselves if they were going to be raped. This came from a time when the "authorities" on such matters still believed rape was a crime about sex, not violence and power. 

Sadly, I still see such information being offered at seminars and in self-defense classes.


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## Fern (Aug 20, 2013)

maggis said:


> Banks,servos' and some smaller family shops have that rule and I agree with it, most service stations round here now employ a security guard at night too
> as incidences of robbing and thuggery are rising lately and believe it or not some of the 'criminals' are 13/15 yrs old, where're the parents?


It's the same here . Some business ask that dark sunglasses are not worn and I'm in total agreement


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## JustBonee (Aug 21, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> One piece of "*act crazy*" advice I never had any use for, though, was when they told women to act crazy, drool and wet themselves if they were going to be raped. This came from a time when the "authorities" on such matters still believed rape was a crime about sex, not violence and power.
> 
> Sadly, I still see such information being offered at seminars and in self-defense classes.



That probably would come naturally :distress:...  _then_ the kicking and biting starts..


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## basefare (Aug 21, 2013)

I have been a victim of profiling as a biker when most of America's attitude about bikers was influenced by Hells Angels and other rowdy bike Clubs or gangs. It may have helped make a law abiding citizen out of me. Put up the signs, let the chips fall where they will.


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## Anne (Aug 21, 2013)

Boo's Mom said:


> That probably would come naturally :distress:...  _then_ the kicking and biting starts..



OR; as we were taught, if it seems there's no other way to stop it, grab, pull, and twist.   Graphic, yes, but I think that would be enough to disable an attacker for a minute or two.......


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## That Guy (Aug 22, 2013)

Anne said:


> OR; as we were taught, if it seems there's no other way to stop it, grab, pull, and twist.   Graphic, yes, but I think that would be enough to disable an attacker for a minute or two.......



No holds barred.  No holding back.  Go all out.  Go for the eyes, the throat, the groin.  Fight to kill.  Fight to live.


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## nan (Aug 22, 2013)

I think head coverings of any kind should be removed when entering a building,motor cycle riders have to remove helmets here, so I think if its good enough for 1 then its good enough for all.


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## Jambi (Aug 29, 2013)

> The first thing a young man should do when he meets a woman is take his hat off. Next, he should throw his hat in the garbage, because hats look silly.



PJ O'Rourke


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## terra (Aug 29, 2013)

*

I'll remove my hat when the Muslims remove their burqas..... *


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## Katybug (Aug 29, 2013)

Phil:  
1. Do you think this is prejudiced or profiling?
2. If you were a victimized shopkeeper would you put up a sign like this?
3. How would you enforce it, short of having a law passed?

1. NO, ITA with people being made to remove hoodies.  Baseball caps are to cover a bad hair day or they are for me anyway.  Some men just don't feel comfortable w/o one (which I don't get, but whatever!)  And they don't cover your face.  Almost every robbery I see on TV, they're wearing a hoodie....something to keep you warm and you don't need the protection from the cold inside a store.  

2. Yes, and would have no problem with it, but it would have to include "all hats" to avoid multiple problems.  

3. Same way as "no shoes, no service."  But that seems way too simplistic and I'm not sure you could enforce it without a lot of problems unless a law was passed.


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## That Guy (Aug 29, 2013)




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## Katybug (Aug 29, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Just read that mail carriers are refusing to deliver mail in parts of Brooklyn, as some of the buildings are so crime infested they are afraid for their lives.  Yet, although the residents are the ones creating the situation, they're complaining because they have to hook it on down to the P.O. to get their mail.
> 
> Don'tcha just feel for those thugs and dealers that are being inconvenienced
> 
> "..neither rain nor snow nor heat of day nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their annointed tasks".......but fear hoodlums, dealers and gangstas..now that's another story



*And there's not enough money to pay me to be a pizza or any type delivery guy there or anywhere.  Carrying cash??!!!  No way!!
*


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## Phantom (Sep 1, 2013)

Nobody mentioned the Burka (Burqa) ??


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## Jillaroo (Sep 1, 2013)




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## That Guy (Sep 1, 2013)

> Baby, take off your coat...(real slow) Baby, take off your shoes...(here, I'll take your shoes)
> Baby, take off your dress
> Yes, yes, yes
> You can leave your hat on
> ...



-- Randy Newman


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## Katybug (Sep 1, 2013)

_*For some weird reason, I can't "reply with quote."
*_
*From that guy:*

_Baby, take off your coat...(real slow) Baby, take off your shoes...(here, I'll take your shoes) _
_Baby, take off your dress _
_Yes, yes, yes _
_You can leave your hat on _
_You can leave your hat on _
_You can leave your hat on

*Recognized the lyrics immediately.  Joe Cocker did a rendition of it years ago.*_


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## That Guy (Sep 1, 2013)




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## oakapple (Apr 15, 2015)

I know this is an old thread, but just wanted to add....... Hoods have been associated with thieves and villains for a very long time ( think, Robin Hood!) In medieval times hoods were worn by the lowly and favoured by criminals for the reason of obscuring the face. such a shame that they have made a comeback in the fashion stakes.Various shopping malls have signs here to prevent anyone in hoods shopping there.


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## jujube (Apr 15, 2015)

My banks and credit union all have signs asking you to remove hats and sunglasses.  I'll take my sunglasses off, but usually if I'm wearing a hat it's because I'm suffering from BAD.HAIR.DAY (and when I suffer from BAD.HAIR.DAY, I MEAN really bad hair day...I could cause dogs to bark, small children to cry and pregnant women to miscarry.)  No way am I going to take off my hat.  I've yet to be asked to remove it.  

Now when a _border crossing guard_ asks me to remove my hat (as they always do), I promptly remove my hat.  If he wants to turn to stone because he's looked at my Medusa-hair, that's his concern.


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## Warrigal (Apr 15, 2015)

oakapple said:


> I know this is an old thread, but just wanted to add....... Hoods have been associated with thieves and villains for a very long time ( think, Robin Hood!) In medieval times hoods were worn by the lowly and favoured by criminals for the reason of obscuring the face. such a shame that they have made a comeback in the fashion stakes.Various shopping malls have signs here to prevent anyone in hoods shopping there.



Robin Hood? That's not a villain...

*THIS* is a villain!


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## oakapple (Apr 15, 2015)

Yes DW another villain in a hat, or in Ned's case, a helmet! I have always had a soft spot for Ned Kelly, and can't help confusing him with Mick Jagger.


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## oakapple (Apr 15, 2015)

Come to think of it, The Cat In The Hat was a bit of a villain too.


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## Warrigal (Apr 15, 2015)

Mick Jagger!!!????  Aaaaarggg!!!!  Worst Ned Kelly eve!!!!
Heath Ledger wasn't much chop either IMO.

I'm a bit of a Kelly fan too. He was a most remarkable villain.


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