# Edward Snowden - The Untold Story



## SeaBreeze (Aug 16, 2014)

Read the article and watch the video about Edward Snowden here...http://www.wired.com/2014/08/edward-snowden/


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## Debby (Aug 17, 2014)

Thanks for the link SeaBreeze.  I'm about 1/2 way through it to the point where it talks about a program developed by the NSA, called Monster Mind which had/has the potential to 'accidentally' start a war!  'Oops' just doesn't cut it in a case like that does it?  Good article by the way.


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## Rainee (Aug 17, 2014)

Thanks SeaBreeze a story will keep and read when I have more time.. ..


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

Let him rot in Russia and enjoy a pizza with Putin...


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## Debby (Aug 18, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Let him rot in Russia and enjoy a pizza with Putin...




So you prefer the possibility of the NSA and their 'Monster Mind' program accidentally starting a nuclear war or violation of the Fourth Amendment (freedom from unreasonable searches), seizing private communications without reason or warrant.  Now I'll bet years ago, when you heard about Russia spying on it's own people, making them disappear forever, arrests without warrant, you were horrified and called that government monstrous.  And yet when ES sees your own government heading down that same path, you get all indignant.  Quite amazing that you have no problem with your government spying on you for no reason.  That's how it starts you know.  First the secret spying, without warrants or reason on citizens, then citizens getting arrested without warrant or charges, no due process.....oh wait, your government can do that!  http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...y-still-arrest-detain-citizens-without-charge

You trust your government an awful lot don't you?  Once upon a time they had a rule or regulation or whatever it's called, that prohibited them from pressing the button on nuclear weapon deployment first.  The nuke only came out of the garage if you were attacked, but recently that's been changed to first strike being allowed.  Given the obvious American administration penchant for starting conflicts, that change in your own law should frighten you.  Personally I don't trust your government.  But then I don't even trust my own government these days because they've proven (like yours) that corporations rule.

Governmental secrecy will be the death of us all.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 18, 2014)

Snowden is a self-righteous prig who doesn't have the courage to come back and explain himself even if it means jail time.  All of the major world powers engage in all kinds of doomsday scenarios...


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## Debby (Aug 19, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Snowden is a self-righteous prig who doesn't have the courage to come back and explain himself even if it means jail time.  All of the major world powers engage in all kinds of doomsday scenarios...





So have you read anything written about him via interviews or listened to him on interviews or are you just riding on the coat-tails of mainstream media who have a government 'suggested' bias?
Did you bother to look at the article that was linked by Seabreeze?  And what are your feelings about the fact that the American government did make a few 'adjustments' as a result of him exposing the fact that they're spying on you (the aging and possibly retired citizen)?


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 19, 2014)

Read it and it is just justifying his behavior.  If you want to blow the whistle then you must be ready to pay the piper...


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## Debby (Aug 20, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Read it and it is just justifying his behavior.  If you want to blow the whistle then you must be ready to pay the piper...





Well at least you read it.  Personally, I think he's a hero because he saw something that was wrong on all counts (that was harming you even if you didn't realize it) and he was willing to walk away from his life for a principal.  Just like Bradley Manning did.  And (Bradley) is locked up by the way while those Apache helicopter murderers are still free and sitting in a bar somewhere and trading stories about how many civilians and reporters they blew away that day in Iraq.  Goes to show where righteousness exists and doesn't exist doesn't it?  

And in a sense, he has paid if revenge is your thing.  He can never go home, he's had to live in a foreign country and has to worry that the CIA will pop out of the shadows at any time and he will disappear forever (thank you Mr. Obama!).  He has a great deal of courage in my opinion, going up against a government that seems to have no scruples.

Any comments on the 'changes' that the American government claims to have made in light of his revelations, not to mention the various new laws concerning 'due process, arrests without charges, indefinite imprisonoment, etc.).  How do you feel about those things and the loss of rights as an American citizen?


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 20, 2014)

Sorry, but all of the justification in the world does not justify his cowardly flight from justice.  Maybe he and Julian can share a pizza some day...


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## Debby (Aug 20, 2014)

So you have no opinion than or just don't want to answer any questions? What about Bradley Manning?  He's paying for his 'crime'.  What do you think of the revelations that came from him?  The actions of the Apache helicopter crew?  Any comment?  Or do you approve of what happened that day in Baghdad?

Or is it that you are afraid that the NSA is 'listening' and you don't want to wind up on a no-fly list?  

Personally, I'm already comfortable with the likelihood that I will be denied entry to the USA (no more Disneyland for me), because I have to admit that I'm rather outspoken about what I see as abuses and lies coming out of the American administration.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 20, 2014)

You are definitely on one of our watch lists...


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## Debby (Aug 20, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> You are definitely on one of our watch lists...




Yeah, gotta keep the lies, corruption and abuses secret right?  

Once upon a time American's cared about civil liberties, freedom, etc., but not so much now.  Scared I guess so they're getting comfortable with losing those things.

The problem that I see is that your fear means the rest of the world suffers because of it.  Too bad for us I guess.



(Probably not a good idea to  get too cocky Ralph because until you die, your government still has the right to come after you and not give you a reason.  Who knows, maybe you are on some list somewhere.)


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 20, 2014)

I have nothing to fear but fear itself!  (Where have I heard that before?)


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 2, 2015)

You can now watch Citizenfour, his documentary here.  I saw part of it on TV.  Snowden is a hero as far as I'm concerned, I'm glad he had the nerve to speak up.  http://billmoyers.com/2015/03/02/watch-oscar-winning-citizenfour-free-now/


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## Don M. (Mar 2, 2015)

Personally, there are very few in Washington who I would trust any further than I could throw them....and that goes from the bureaucrats all the way to the occupant of the White House.  There probably aren't more than a handful who give a rats rear about the average person.


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## tnthomas (Mar 2, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> You can now watch Citizenfour, his documentary here.  I saw part of it on TV.  Snowden is a hero as far as I'm concerned, I'm glad he had the nerve to speak up.  http://billmoyers.com/2015/03/02/watch-oscar-winning-citizenfour-free-now/



As a computer enthusiast I get the significance of Snowden's actions, in revealing the degree to which we all have had constitutional rights abridged by NSA practices.    Too bad that he chose the route he took, whistle blowers are always villianized, never regarded as heroes.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 2, 2015)

It sounded like he knew he would be villianized, but he wanted to get the truth out and I respect him for that.


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 3, 2015)

Hope he enjoys living in Russia for the rest of his days...


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## Debby (Mar 3, 2015)

Lot better than in one of 'Obama's' jail cells wouldn't you say?


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 3, 2015)

Maybe, but he belongs in jail...


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## QuickSilver (Mar 3, 2015)

I think if someone is going to be a "Hero" for the better of the USA...and break laws doing so..  he/she should be Hero enough to stay in the country they profess to love and face whatever consequences that may bring.  THAT is being a "Hero" for the good of the country... not running off and ending up somewhere that would be more than happy to.. (and most definitely has) abscond with additional sensitive information in his possession.  I have no respect for someone like that.. but really would have if he had stayed and faced the music for his cause.  IMO Snowden is nothing more than a cowardly little grandstander who got more than he bargained for with his theatrics.    Let him stay in Russia and enjoy.


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 3, 2015)

Well said, QS!


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## QuickSilver (Mar 3, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Well said, QS!



Thanks Ralphy, but this is one area where I part company with some of my Liberal brethren.   I personally am glad that surveillance is going on.. even IF someone happens to read MY emails... ( they will see my scrabble games)   OR listens to my phone calls.. ( they will know when my dog is going for his grooming), and this helps stop or contain terrorist activities here and abroad...  I have no problem with it.


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## Jackie22 (Mar 3, 2015)

QS, you do not part with me, as Ralphy said, he belongs in jail.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 3, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> QS, you do not part with me, as Ralphy said, he belongs in jail.




He ran off to Hong Kong with a suitcase full of our security information..  ( Like the Chinese didn't have that within 10 minutes).... THEN he was trying to get to Ecuador.. another country not really our friend..  AND of course we all know how he ended up in Russia... and Putin was more than happy to have him.. NOT just to get what the Chinese got out of him.. but to stick a finger in the eye of the USA.   Snowden is guilty of espionage.  He DOES belong in prison..


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## Rocky (Mar 3, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> As a computer enthusiast I get the significance of Snowden's actions, in revealing the degree to which we all have had constitutional rights abridged by NSA practices.    Too bad that he chose the route he took, whistle blowers are always villianized, never regarded as heroes.



And that's the truth...anyone who dares blow-the-whistle is always, always, made a villain, no matter how much the information needed to be outed.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 3, 2015)

Rocky said:


> And that's the truth...anyone who dares blow-the-whistle is always, always, made a villain, no matter how much the information needed to be outed.



Except when they really ARE the villain... as in Snowden's case.


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## tnthomas (Mar 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Except when they really ARE the villain... as in Snowden's case.



There's no denying the fact that he broke laws, perhaps he could have done his whistle blowing by disclosing to a domestic new agency, like the Washington Post or...


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## Debby (Mar 3, 2015)

The one problem that I can see is that if he had stayed in the US, given his findings to Washington Post or whomever, the government might have swooped in, grabbed everything, thrown him in jail and the changes that have been made as a result of his 'current exposure' of what was going on might never have been made.  I found an article that points to four issues that have been changed/improved as a result of his revelations.  I do confess that I don't understand most of what I read, but it seems to me that if government agencies are prevented from running rough-shod over citizens rights, that can only be a good thing.

I wish I did understand because then it's a lot easier to discuss this kind of thing intelligently but I've informed my husband numerous times that if he dies before me, the TV with the multiple remote controls and all its various 'boxes' plus my computer will be out the door at the first sign of trouble because my skills with electronics is pretty much non existent.  How many times have I hollered, 'Don, come fix the remote, I pushed the wrong button'?  Too many to count.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/05/what-snowden-revealed-changed-nsa-reform

I also want to be protected but I think that there is a very slippery slope with all the sneaking and peeking that not only the NSA is doing but my own government is desperately trying to engage in.  Our government oppositions recognize the need for government being able to get information in a dismal terrorist climate, but they are also demanding accountability and oversight and our Conservative Party seems bent on bulldozing their bill through without those protections.  At least that is the impression that I'm getting lately.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 3, 2015)

Snowden is no hero in my book.  Since when can a totally unqualified person sell out the secrets of his country and be anyone's hero?  How do we know, or will we ever know how this may effect our own security?  If he snooped and got classified information that concerned him he could have taken internal steps to make higher ups aware of his concern.  As it stands he is being coached by a potential enemy in ways to present the data he stole to most effectively make our country look bad.  His act stands as treason plain and simple.  Others may disagree and I wouldn't have it any other way but as someone who has held the second highest security clearance issued by DOD, I took my discretion seriously.


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## rt3 (Mar 3, 2015)

Snowden will be thought of as Fuchs, Rosenbergs, and it will played by the press for their purposes, and politics for their purpose. In the mean time the optical fiber cables between the NSA center in Utah, Adobe and Oracle  headquarters which are only 1/4 mi. Away will be watched 24 hrs. A day and closed television supervision by the Apache helicopter base 15 mins, away will intensify.


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## rt3 (Mar 3, 2015)

Having had an "association" with the DARPA side of things, you should be very concerned about "brain transplants" and AI systems in current development.


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## rt3 (Mar 3, 2015)

You should also be concerned about the recent break through in closed box biological agent testing at Dugway. Also concern yourself with hypersonic satellite controlled drone re entry testing that will be held outside of Wendover under the recent senate approval to increase the air space in that area. Ain't you glad your on the right side?


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## AZ Jim (Mar 3, 2015)

rt3, you are not running around without your tin hat, I hope.  Shhh before you answer let's lower the cone of silence.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 3, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> rt3, you are not running around without your tin hat, I hope.  Shhh before you answer let's lower the cone of silence.



If he is, I have just bought a roll of heavy duty foil.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> If he is, I have just bought a roll of heavy duty foil.



looks like he'll need it....I heard him moaning "stop the voices...stop them...."


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## rt3 (Mar 3, 2015)

Jim didn't you say you worked for General Dynamics. Great company, only domestic gun powder manufacter in US , based in Florida. Interesting how just, yesterday, they brought in 2,000,000 rounds of green tip armor piercing ammo from Canada for 
public sale ahead of Obamas, and Holders, BATF plan to make it illegal. Got to wonder who is playin who. That what  goes around comes around thing can be a real bitch.
got to wonder why the Russians did't take him sooner, guess maybe they thought he was a double agent pushing jello recipes.


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## rt3 (Mar 3, 2015)

No ad homininem attacks now, or I'll have to do some Dorothy and tin man stuff


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## AZ Jim (Mar 3, 2015)

What's the matter amigo.  Tell you what let's take a picnic lunch out to area 51, huh?


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 3, 2015)

Debby said:


> The one problem that I can see is that if he had stayed in the US, given his findings to Washington Post or whomever, the government might have swooped in, grabbed everything, thrown him in jail and the changes that have been made as a result of his 'current exposure' of what was going on might never have been made.



I agree staying in the US wasn't an option for him.  He's wanting to come to the US now if he can be guaranteed a fair trial.  So far all they guarantee is that he won't be executed.  http://rt.com/news/237149-snowden-us-trial-just/


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## rt3 (Mar 3, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> What's the matter amigo.  Tell you what let's take a picnic lunch out to area 51, huh?


Better still lets go to area 52, next to Enviocare, at the end of Wendover air space, you know -- the one with the old mock up Soviet Airbase, and Hill AF base uses for drone testing. If you got some extra time I'lol take you around Dugway and dhow you the pits were the Anthrax sheep are buried.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 3, 2015)

rt3 said:


> Better still lets go to area 52, next to Enviocare, at the end of Wendover air space, you know -- the one with the old mock up Soviet Airbase, and Hill AF base uses for drone testing. If you got some extra time I'lol take you around Dugway and dhow you the pits were the Anthrax sheep are buried.



Ok...then after we could maybe get a doodle burger and fries.  Hey!  If we're having a date, let's make it a full days worth of fun!  *Turning to the three burly men holding the white jacket*...."Hold on guys I think we can do this without hurting him!"


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## rt3 (Mar 3, 2015)

Only if we can take the dogs, including Toto. As the tin man you can ask Dorothy if she has learned anything, she can click her heels  and all the issues you are not addressing can go away.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 3, 2015)

rt3 said:


> Only if we can take the dogs, including Toto. As the tin man you can ask Dorothy if she has learned anything, she can click her heels  and all the issues you are not addressing can go away.



If Dorothy is going along, I fully expect her to sing "somewhere over the rainbow" a few times.  And maybe we can teach Toto how to balance a silver dollar on his nose....you bring the silver dollar.


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## rt3 (Mar 3, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> I agree staying in the US wasn't an option for him.  He's wanting to come to the US now if he can be guaranteed a fair trial.  So far all they guarantee is that he won't be executed.  http://rt.com/news/237149-snowden-us-trial-just/



A con is not over, until the patsy falls. If your interested, start to think about why the NSA would want to this to occur, thinking they are spying etcetera, remember their real talent is disinformation. Go back a ways, using the Clooney movie, a The Men that stare at goats, as a guide sort of and research a guy by the name of Mike Echanis.


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