# Alternative to Company retirement insurance after 65?



## rkruz

Im  being kicked out of retire plan as I turn 65 and the insurance choices  offered through the company dont make financial sense.  Im hoping there  is some advise here.
Here is the situtation: 

Option A.  Continue Retire Medical

    - Im on retire medical now with my wife (the Boeing company) for $210/Month to cover both of us.
     - I turn 65 in August (my wife is 5 years younger) and Boeing kicks me  out plan and requires me to buy a Bluecross Medicare Supplemental (only 1  choice) through them for $371/month+ $105/month (to maintain BlueCross  coverage for wife).  This is in addtion to Medicare of $150/month  for a  total of $626/month.  No eyecare, dental or gym membership 

      -  With this Boeing plan I work through Medicare as primary and the  Boeing/Bluecross supplemental only covers 80% of the approved 20% that  Medicare does not cover.  



How does that make sense to pay so much for so little in return from Boeing Bluecross?


Option B  Get individual Med Insurance.  

When  I look at the 65+ Bluecross plan as an individual I only pay the  Medicare $150/moth and get HMO type coverage with good copays,  prescription coverage and also include eyecare and for dental and a gym  membership. The kicker is that since Im not under Boeing insurance my  wife will have get her own plan for $593/month.  This then becomes a  total of $743/month.  



Do I have less expensive alternative then option A above?



Seems like Boeing/Bluecross med insurance is really screwing us to get so little when comparing to the Bluecross 65+ HMO.



Advise appreciated.


Im being kicked out of retiree medical plan as I turn 65 and the insurance  choice offered through the company don't make financial sense. Im hoping  there is some advise here.
Here is the situattion: 
Option A. Continue Retire Medical
- I'm on retire medical now with my wife (the Boeing company) for $210/Month to cover both of us.
- I turn 65 in August (my wife is 5 years younger) and Boeing kicks me  out plan and requires me to buy a Bluecross Medicare Supplemental (only 1  choice) through them for $371/month+ $105/month (to maintain BlueCross  coverage for wife). This is in addtion to Medicare of $150/month for a  total of $626/month. No eyecare, dental or gym membership 
- With this Boeing plan I work through Medicare as primary and the  Boeing/Bluecross supplemental only covers 80% of the approved 20% that  Medicare does not cover. 

How does that make sense to pay so much for so little in return from Boeing Bluecross?

Option B Get individual Med Insurance. 
-  When I look at the 65+ Bluecross plan as an individual I only pay the  Medicare $150/moth and get HMO type coverage with good copays,  prescription coverage and also include eyecare and for dental and a gym  membership. 
-  The kicker is that since Im not under Boeing insurance my  wife will have get her own plan for $593/month. 
-   This then becomes a  total of $743/month. 

Do I have less expensive alternative then option A above?

Seems like Boeing/Bluecross med insurance is really screwing us to get so little when comparing to the Bluecross 65+ HMO.

Advise appreciated.


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## Butterfly

Can your wife get less expensive coverage from another company than Blue Cross?


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## rkruz

MBSC said:


> Option B sounds like a Medicare Advantage  plan instead of a Medicare supplement (Medigap). An HMO will use a  provider network which is something to consider if you plan to travel  during retirement. The individual plan for the wife probably has a  smaller provider network than the group plan and is probably age-rated,  meaning the premiums will increase significantly each year for both age  and inflation until she is Medicare eligible.
> 
> 
> With  the instability in the under 65 individual market at this time, there  is no guarantee individual plans will still be available in your area in  2019, 2020, etc. until she is age 65.
> 
> 
> Under  option 'A' you are getting the group rate so there are no increases for  age. I would choose option 'A' for these reasons and re-visit the  situation once she is Medicare eligible. Think of it as paying  $476/month for the wife to have good coverage.
> 
> 
> The  alternative is to keep your income low (below $60k for a couple) to  qualify for premium subsidies on her option B individual plan. But,  there is also no guarantee the subsidies will continue.




Very thoughtful and intelligent answer.  thank you! 

What  about another option C.  Now that I understand the difference between a  "Supplement" and a "Advantage".  The Advantage program I looked it is  good.  Its an HMO with my family doctor that includes eyecare, gym  membership, prescriptions, 0 Copays and for $12/month more dental and  its free when I pay the  the cost of Medicare in my case about  $150/month.  I looked at several and I was very happy with the benefits.
Can  one sign up for Advantage and still have the Supplemental (both  Bluecross in my case)?  If so, then I would get the benefit mentioned  above which I dont get with option A. ( Option A is Medicare+  Supplemental.  Option C is Advantage + Supplemental.)


Thanks again for the great advise




  What about another option C.  Now that I understand the difference between a "Supplemental (what Boeing offers) " and a "Advantage (HMO thru Bluecross)".  The Advantage program I looked it is good.  Its an HMO with my family doctor that includes eyecare, gym membership, prescriptions, 0 Copays and for $12/month more dental and its free when I pay the  the cost of Medicare in my case about $150/month.  I looked at several and I was very happy with the benefits.

  Can one sign up for Advantage and still have the Supplemental (both Bluecross in my case)?  If so, then I would get the benefit mentioned above which I dont get with option A. ( Option A is Medicare+ Supplemental.  Option C is Advantage + Supplemental.)


  Thanks again


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## Butterfly

I don't think you can have both, nor do I see why you would want or need to.  I've been on an Advantage plan for six years now and have paid VERY little out of pocket, even including my two hip replacement surgeries.  If you are happy with what that advantage plan covers, grab it and run!  Figure out the cost of the supplement plan over the course of the year, and see if it is really worth whatever that benefit you mentioned (I'm not sure what that is from your post) might be worth to you.  I've saved thousands of dollars over the course of the time I've had the advantage plan, a huge portion of it in having both hips replaced.  Even with the Medicare hospital copays (which you still have to pay with an Advantage or a supplement plan), I spent less than $1,000 out of pocket on each hip.  My sister, who has multiple medical problems, also has an advantage plan and has spent very little out of pocket.

I, myself, would take the Advantage plan in a heartbeat and shop around and see what you would have to pay for coverage for your wife.


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## rkruz

the reason to have both is described previously in the thread.  In order to maintain PPO Bluecross coverage under the retirement plan for my wife I have to have the Bluecross supplemental.  Thats 371/month and 105 for my wife.   That leaves me with Medicare for an additional 150/month.   The Advantage offers eyecare and for small fee dental using an HMO , local gym membership and I can retain my family doctor.   Since Im forced to buy the supplemental to maintain wifes coverage,   the net benefits would be better for me if I could use an Advantage HMO.   Ill talk to Bluecross on Monday.


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## Butterfly

Is Blue Cross the only carrier available to your wife?


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## rkruz

Butterfly said:


> Is Blue Cross the only carrier available to your wife?



Under the group retirement plan:
For my wife only Bluecross with a variety of plans from PPO to HMO from 110/month on down.
for me its only Bluecross supplemental at $371/month.  I have to buy that in order for my wifes plan above.

Opting out of retirement insurance:
Any California plan is available. 
For my wife who is not 65 it would be a standalone plan.
For me it would be a Medicare Advantage plan.


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## Butterfly

Have you checked into the standalone plans?


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## GreenSky

I strongly suggest not using an HMO.  Yes, you can see your current doctor but there will be limited choices of specialists and even then, you need the approval of a medical committee (meaning accountants) to justify the referral.

People will tell you how wonderful their HMO is and I won't argue with them.  Until they need treatment that is better outside of their network.  Then they are stuck.

I speak as an insurance agent who has helped at least 1,000 people enroll in HMO plans.  It's their choice, not mine.  But Medicare plus a supplement (generally Plan G or N) will allow you to have access to many more doctors and control your health.  An HMO allows a company to do that for you.

Rick


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## Butterfly

I strongly disagree with Greensky.  An advantage plan can work very well for you, depending on how the plan is set up. My plan certainly does not require the "approval of a committee" to see a specialist.  My HMO is a very good one, and has a huge number of physicians.  

Many specialists here do not require a referral, but you will get in a lot faster if you have a referral, no matter what plan you are on.   Many specialists here DO require a referral to see you, no matter what kind of insurance you have.

When my hips when south, my doc said I needed to see an orthopedic surgeon (which was pretty obvious) and asked me who I'd like to see.  I told him and he gave me a referral for that doc.  

I've been on my plan for 6 years -- at the price stated in the OP's thread, that's a savings for me of almost $4,000 a year, and in 6 years that's about $24,000, which isn't chump change to me.  I'm delighted with my plan and will stay on it.


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## rkruz

I spoke with Blue cross.  They stated that Medicare does not allow a Advantage plan in conjunction with a Supplemental plan.  She said you can sign up for both but Medicare will catch on in about 3 months and it gets messy when they cancel the plan .  So Im stuck with the Supplemental and Medicare until my wife turns 65.  Seems a ridiculous rule as there is it makes no sense not to allow both


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## Butterfly

My question is what would happen if you found an independent policy for your wife and signed up for the Medicare advantage plan on your own.  Why does it have to be tied to your employer?  Medicare advantage plans are offered to individuals and I don't see why you have to remain tied to your employer if you found an independent plan.  What good does it do you to stay with the "group retirement plan" if you could find a standalone plan for your wife?


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## GreenSky

An advantage plan replaces the Medicare benefit.  So how could a supplement be of value when there is nothing to supplement?

As far as Butterfly's comment, I never said an advantage plan wasn't good.  You do give up choices of doctors/hospitals when you are either in an HMO or PPO.  There is nothing that gives you the freedom of who you want (or need) to see like Original Medicare.  Advantage plans are great for a large number of people who are satisfied with them.  I would much rather have the virtually unlimited choice of provider that can only be found with Medicare.

Supplements need not be expensive if you talk with an agent that has your concerns first.  (BTW, I make more money enrolling people in advantage plans vs supplements).

Rick


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## rkruz

Unfortunately those conditions are not germain to my situation.
1)  In retirement and in order to maintain the company retirement medical for my wife who is under 65 I have to sign up for the companies Group Supplement plan.  
2)  Separately, as the company will not longer cover me after 65 in the company group plan and  to maintain health insurance for myself I need to sign up for Medicare.
3)  My wife will enjoy quality PPO insurance.
4)  I will have whatever Medicare A,B, D offers with the added advantage of the Group supplemental.
5)  The company Group supplemental will pay 80% of the remaining Medicare 20% approved medicals as well as for my wifes PPO.  (Non Group Supplementals will pay 100% of the 20%).
6).  Most importantly Medicare does not allow one to have an Advantage along with the Supplemental so I can only go Medicare direct (this from the Bluecross representative who impressed me as being very knowledgeable and who has had to sort out others insurance being cancelled because they did just that)
7)  I have the option of dropping the retirement medical and then I could go Medicare Advantage and my wife would get individual medical coverage however the net cost of this is substantially more then continuing the retiree medical benefit.

Why medicare wont allow me to have Advantage with the group supplimental makes not sense as I would much rather have an HMO Advantage program.


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## GreenSky

rkruz said:


> Why medicare wont allow me to have Advantage with the group supplimental makes not sense as I would much rather have an HMO Advantage program.



It's because (as I already wrote) a Medicare Supplement provides supplemental benefits to Medicare.  The HMO is provided by a private insurance company that is paid about $900 monthly from Medicare to provide you with benefits.

If you need to keep your benefits for your wife then do it.  She always has the option of buying an Obamacrap plan outside the group and then you can get an HMO if that's what you desire.

Rick


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## rkruz

Its a group supplement offered through a corporation as part of retirement benefit.


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## GreenSky

Generally they are not true supplements but group health policies that pay after Medicare.  And generally at 80% of what is left (20%).  So realistically the person pays 4% of the total allowable.  One of the big advantages is that they have better Rx benefits than can be purchased with individual plans.

There are group HMO and sometimes PPO advantage plans.  

I've specialized in Medicare plans (supplements and advantage) for many years and I know of no group supplements although perhaps they exists somewhere.

Rick


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## rkruz

Its through Boeing.  Medicare supplemental.  Im required to purchase in order that my younger wife can still use the Boeing retirement medical plan PPO for 105 month.


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## GreenSky

rkruz said:


> Its through Boeing.  Medicare supplemental.  Im required to purchase in order that my younger wife can still use the Boeing retirement medical plan PPO for 105 month.



$105 a month including Rx is a good deal. Be happy with it. 

Rick


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## rkruz

GreenSky said:


> $105 a month including Rx is a good deal. Be happy with it.
> 
> Rick


Its 105 + 361 = 466.  Then 150 more for Medicare.   Im more resigned than happy but I think its the best financial solution with good coverage for wife.


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## Mikecy

rkruz -  I am curious how you resolved this?   I have been retired for 3 years and I am Medicare-eligible in Sept, 2018 and I am facing exactly the same situation with Boeing.   My wife will be Medicare-eligible in July, 2019 so paying the cost of the Boeing Medicare Supplement for that period will be something I would rather not do.  But her coverage (we currently with Kaiser) will be better than anything we can buy on the open market.    It is a bit of a frustration and surprise for me as I had been thinking that getting the Medicare Advantage through Kaiser would meet the Boeing supplement requirement.   Apparently not.  I thought I did all my homework at the time I retired but I guess I misinterpreted this supplement requirement.   It is frustrating that what Boeing calls a 'Medicare supplement' appears to cost significantly more than other Medicare Supplement Plans on the market yet with very poor coverage.   I don't get it.   My wife insists that it is because Boeing wants to discourage keeping dependents on the Boeing Medical plan after the retiree becomes Medicare-eligible.


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## nvtribefan

GreenSky said:


> .  She always has the option of buying an Obamacrap plan outside the group and then you can get an HMO if that's what you desire.
> 
> Rick



Your political commentary is not required.  Actually, it's banned here.


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