# Crypto Currency Fund 'loses' one BILLION dollars in client funds. Goes Bankrupt. CEO Flees To Bahamas



## WhatInThe (Nov 14, 2022)

The crypto currency fund FTX declares bankruptcy after one BILLION dollars in investor money goes missing. The ex CEO has since fled to the Bahamas.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/cur...ng-failed-crypto-firm-ftx-sources-2022-11-12/


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## Nathan (Nov 14, 2022)

WhatInThe said:


> The crypto currency fund FTX declares bankruptcy after one BILLION dollars in investor money goes missing. The ex CEO has since fled to the Bahamas.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/markets/cur...ng-failed-crypto-firm-ftx-sources-2022-11-12/


I guess I'm just in a strange mood today, but I have to chuckle a bit at the insanity of it all.  Bankman-Fried eventually will be caught, and the customers of course will get screwed.    
​


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## rasmusjc (Nov 14, 2022)

Do you think this is the event that causes the market to tank?  I see Dow is down -0.63%, but it has to lose a lot at 33,000+ points to go to bottom.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 14, 2022)

rasmusjc said:


> Do you think this is the event that causes the market to tank?  I see Dow is down -0.63%, but it has to lose a lot at 33,000+ points to go to bottom.


No, this news was out on Friday.  The market dropped today because of Fed  comments on inflation. 

It would be a good thing if more investors realized that crypto is a dangerous, maybe crazy, place to put money. 

One of the funny things about this is that the twerp behind this disaster ("SBF" or Sam Bankman Fried) is the second largest individual donor to Democrats, right after Soros.


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## Nathan (Nov 14, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> One of the funny things about this is that the twerp behind this disaster ("SBF" or Sam Bankman Fried) is the second largest individual donor to Democrats, right after Soros.


You know what's equally funny is how you try to sneek in a right wing* political* jab, in a non-political conversation.


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## Pepper (Nov 14, 2022)




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## JimBob1952 (Nov 14, 2022)

Pepper said:


>



I'm flattered, I think!


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## Geezerette (Nov 14, 2022)

Still can’t figure out how/why people get involved in this “play money”. I’m  kind of glad I’m too dumb to catch on.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 14, 2022)

Geezerette said:


> Still can’t figure out how/why people get involved in this “play money”. I’m  kind of glad I’m too dumb to catch on.


He probably cashed in the 'play money' for real money. Problem is if he cashed out over the last 3 months in particular he might have wound up buying high and selling low hence why there is nothing left for the actual investors.

It's not the crypto but there is little transparency with alot of the companies that specialize in it. These firms should be required to file statements quarterly.


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## bingo (Nov 14, 2022)

that money was sent to Ukraine  for military aid...somehow ended up in this crypto scheme...disappointing...our tax dollars  at work


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## Nathan (Nov 14, 2022)

bingo said:


> that money was sent to Ukraine  for military aid...somehow ended up in this crypto scheme...disappointing...our tax dollars  at work


That's interesting, no mention of that in the article.  Can you provide a source for that claim?


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## squatting dog (Nov 14, 2022)

https://markets.businessinsider.com...-ftx-ukraine-russia-cash-war-donations-2022-2

https://cointelegraph.com/news/ukra...-donation-website-with-ftx-kuna-and-everstake

https://unusualwhales.com/news/ukraine-government-partnered-with-ftx-for-crypto-to-fiat-donations

FTX launched crypto donation platform Aid for Ukraine in March, setting itself up as the central clearing house for all cryptocurrency donations to Kiev’s war effort. While the exchange was supposed to route those donations to the National Bank of Ukraine, the report suggests it funneled at least some of the money back to the US through political donations.


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## Nathan (Nov 14, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> https://markets.businessinsider.com...-ftx-ukraine-russia-cash-war-donations-2022-2
> 
> https://cointelegraph.com/news/ukra...-donation-website-with-ftx-kuna-and-everstake
> 
> ...


Cool, thx for linking.


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## David777 (Nov 14, 2022)

Brings a smile   to this peon's face reading about financial pain happening to money grubbers in our overly materialistic society.


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## SeniorBen (Nov 14, 2022)

That does it. I've totally lost faith in crypto currency!  

What exactly is crypto currency, anyway, and who invests in it? From what I've read, it makes about as much sense as buying a digital "painting."


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## Liberty (Nov 15, 2022)

Our ex biz partner says he collects 35% interest off his crypto stored in banks...he rents it out!


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## WhatInThe (Nov 15, 2022)

Crypto although a risky investment isn't the issue here. The head guy stole, donated and mismanaged client funds. He is a criminal. His actions were criminal. 

There's still upwards of a billion dollars in assets missing. The political donations to whom ever(he gave 23 million plus to other parties as well) show he is literally giving client money away when he supposed to be investing or growing it. 

I also checked with FINRA I had trouble pulling up statements on FTX and the fund has been in existence since 2019. I'm wording the search right or they didn't file squat.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Nov 16, 2022)

I don't understand Crypto so as an alternative, Pokemon might be a better bet.

ETA: Just saw a headline that Tom Brady and several celebrities are being sued due FTX troubles or scam. Why would Tom get himself involved again in a cheating scandal?

https://sports.yahoo.com/tom-brady-...in-class-action-crypto-lawsuit-181117155.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lebrities-endorsed-platform-hit-11B-suit.html


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## 911 (Nov 16, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> https://markets.businessinsider.com...-ftx-ukraine-russia-cash-war-donations-2022-2
> 
> https://cointelegraph.com/news/ukra...-donation-website-with-ftx-kuna-and-everstake
> 
> ...


And look at every major league umpire who wore the FTX label on their uniforms this season, which tells me that MLB also cashed in on this young man’s fake scheme. He was actually acting like a mini Madoff trader.

Although Madoff was a complete schemer and con artist, I had to hand it to him. He fooled the best and smartest financiers and investment bankers in the business, although a few did find his ability to make money during the crash as suspicious and even insinuated that Bernie wasn’t playing it straight up.


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## 911 (Nov 16, 2022)

Nathan said:


> You know what's equally funny is how you try to sneek in a right wing* political* jab, in a non-political conversation.


But true. Just saying. He did finance a lot of Demos running for office and it goes beyond that, but I don’t want to get into trouble, but you can read more about it and how he pulled off his scheme with the help of others. Why would anyone get upset if a story is truthful? 

FTX


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## Nathan (Nov 16, 2022)

@911,   I'm very picky about what is presented as the truth.  It is a pet peeve of mine when misinformation and distortions are put out in public to _daze and confuse_. Your FTX link points to Axios.com, which I am evaluating to determine credibility. So far Axios seems to be legitimate, with no signs of bias.
Just to clear though, my comment that you quoted had nothing to do with any news content about Sam Bankman Fried, but rather the interjection of a political aspect, mentioned in post #4.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 16, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> No, this news was out on Friday.  The market dropped today because of Fed  comments on inflation.
> 
> It would be a good thing if more investors realized that crypto is a dangerous, maybe crazy, place to put money.
> 
> One of the funny things about this is that the twerp behind this disaster ("SBF" or Sam Bankman Fried) is the second largest individual donor to Democrats, right after Soros.


Did he donate in Crypto?


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## jimintoronto (Nov 16, 2022)

The Bahamas has a strong relationship with the US and an agreement to deport those wanted by the US Government, so being there has little to  no protection for him.   JImB.


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## oldmontana (Nov 16, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> I don't understand Crypto so as an alternative, Pokemon might be a better bet.
> 
> ETA: Just saw a headline that Tom Brady and several celebrities are being sued due FTX troubles or scam. Why would Tom get himself involved again in a cheating scandal?
> 
> ...


Like to know how much these were paid by FTX. Anyone knows?


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## WhatInThe (Nov 17, 2022)

Reports he used up to one BILLION dollars in FTX customer for trading in another investment fund he created. So not only did his crypto fund have issues apparently his other fund did too if he has to use outside funds.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/13/sam...-without-raising-alarm-bells-say-sources.html

2 funds/cons at once. He was a busy boy.


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## JustDave (Nov 17, 2022)

Try as I might, I cannot understand crypto currency.  It's not that I don't have an interest in it.  I do have a basic curiosity, but I just don't get it.  It sounds to me like a lot of people lost a lot of fake money that they probably bought with real money.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 17, 2022)

JustDave said:


> Try as I might, I cannot understand crypto currency.  It's not that I don't have an interest in it.  I do have a basic curiosity, but I just don't get it.  It sounds to me like a lot of people lost a lot of fake money that they probably bought with real money.


Bitcoin or a country's money is supposed to be or should be based on something. That's why some issue currency based on the nation's gold supply. Over simplified but crypto bases their currency on bits of digital information distributed over a network of computers. Problem so many have made up their own currency it gets confusing. It's not the form of currency it's those in charge or how they invest it.

A crypto fund failed not the currency. The person in charge is a criminal/thief.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 17, 2022)

WhatInThe said:


> Reports he used up to one BILLION dollars in FTX customer for trading in another investment fund he created. So not only did his crypto fund have issues apparently his other fund did too if he has to use outside funds.
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/13/sam...-without-raising-alarm-bells-say-sources.html
> 
> 2 funds/cons at once. He was a busy boy.



It's a testament to the effectiveness of Adderall, his drug of choice.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 17, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> It's a testament to the effectiveness of Adderall, his drug of choice.


They say stimulants like cocaine were/are a Wall Street staple. And yes he is of that age he might very well be doing addreall( of which there is a shortage now so money apparently does buy happiness no matter)


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 17, 2022)

WhatInThe said:


> They say stimulants like cocaine were/are a Wall Street staple. And yes he is of that age he might very well be doing addreall( of which there is a shortage now so money apparently does buy happiness no matter)



Drugs, ranging from Adderall to cocaine to something called EmpSam, are all over this story.


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## JustDave (Nov 17, 2022)

WhatInThe said:


> Bitcoin or a country's money is supposed to be or should be based on something. That's why some issue currency based on the nation's gold supply. Over simplified but crypto bases their currency on bits of digital information distributed over a network of computers. Problem so many have made up their own currency it gets confusing. It's not the form of currency it's those in charge or how they invest it.
> 
> A crypto fund failed not the currency. The person in charge is a criminal/thief.


I've always thought money should be based on something, and like crypto currency, I don't understand the US dollar, either. I know I can exchange dollars for goods, but I don't really understand what makes printed money worth anything.  I guess it's based on a non-tangible concept, but I don't find that satisfying.  If crypto is based on bit's of digital information, that is also a non-tangible.  I'm amazed that modern economics works at all.  It seems like slight-of- hand.  Greed and survival is centered around accumulating printed documents no more tangible than an I Owe You.

I've played hundreds of games of Monopoly, but never finished one game ever.  Eventually, everyone got bored and we just quit.  Somehow, that seems relevant here, but it's probably not, and I have no idea why I think it should be.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Nov 17, 2022)

“Never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occurred here.” --- _FTX CEO John Ray._

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/17/ftx...d-accounting-freewheeling-expenses-perks.html


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## OneEyedDiva (Nov 18, 2022)

911 said:


> And look at every major league umpire who wore the FTX label on their uniforms this season, which tells me that MLB also cashed in on this young man’s fake scheme. He was actually acting like a mini Madoff trader.
> 
> Although Madoff was a complete schemer and con artist, I had to hand it to him. He fooled the best and smartest financiers and investment bankers in the business, although a few did find his ability to make money during the crash as suspicious and even insinuated that Bernie wasn’t playing it straight up.


Hey...good to "see" you 911.  As I was reading the replies (before I got to yours) I was thinking he should serve lots of prison time, like Madoff. Because that's exactly what this reminds me of.  Besides it being a foreign based company, it is fairly new IMO and those two things alone would have been a deal breaker for me.


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## Paladin1950 (Nov 18, 2022)

Nathan said:


> You know what's equally funny is how you try to sneek in a right wing* political* jab, in a non-political conversation.


It works both ways, some billionaires are no longer supporting those on the far right.


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## Paladin1950 (Nov 18, 2022)

I could never understand the logic of crypto currency. I want something that I can see and hold in my hands. I feel safer having my money in a bank. After all Billy the Kid and Jesse James, don't rob banks anymore.


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## rgp (Nov 18, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Hey...good to "see" you 911.  As I was reading the replies (before I got to yours) I was thinking he should serve lots of prison time, like Madoff. Because that's exactly what this reminds me of.  Besides it being a foreign based company, it is fairly new IMO and those two things alone would have been a deal breaker for me.



I said it when Madoff was the headline ... and I'll say it again. I really don't feel all that sorry for those caught up in it, simply because greed is what cause them to jump on the band wagon.

Think about it, poor people , or people living on the edge do not have any money to invest ... Those that do just want more & more, and do not take the time to stop & think .

What was Madoff promising ? 12-18% return ... in I believe one year .. at a time when mainstream 1.5 return was unheard of.


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## Pepper (Nov 18, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Drugs, ranging from Adderall to cocaine to something called *EmpSam*, are all over this story.


What's EmpSam?  I googled and all I got was epsom salts.


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## JimBob1952 (Nov 18, 2022)

Pepper said:


> What's EmpSam?  I googled and all I got was epsom salts.


Sorry, it's EmSam and it's a patch used to treat depression. 

https://www.goodrx.com/emsam/what-is


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## 911 (Nov 18, 2022)

Nathan said:


> @911,   I'm very picky about what is presented as the truth.  It is a pet peeve of mine when misinformation and distortions are put out in public to _daze and confuse_. Your FTX link points to Axios.com, which I am evaluating to determine credibility. So far Axios seems to be legitimate, with no signs of bias.
> Just to clear though, my comment that you quoted had nothing to do with any news content about Sam Bankman Fried, but rather the interjection of a political aspect, mentioned in post #4.





Nathan said:


> @911,   I'm very picky about what is presented as the truth.  It is a pet peeve of mine when misinformation and distortions are put out in public to _daze and confuse_. Your FTX link points to Axios.com, which I am evaluating to determine credibility. So far Axios seems to be legitimate, with no signs of bias.
> Just to clear though, my comment that you quoted had nothing to do with any news content about Sam Bankman Fried, but rather the interjection of a political aspect, mentioned in post #4.


I think you take things mentioned about politics personal. I’m not going to lecture you, but why would it matter, if someone interjected the truth? Aren’t we all entitled to learn what’s going on? If it’s disinformation, why care? Sometimes we have to let what people say roll off our backs.


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## Nathan (Nov 18, 2022)

911 said:


> I think you take things mentioned about politics personal. I’m not going to lecture you, but why would it matter, if someone interjected the truth? Aren’t we all entitled to learn what’s going on? If it’s disinformation, why care? Sometimes we have to let what people say roll off our backs.


Thanks for not lecturing, and expressing your belief about my personal matters.  The truth is always welcome, but I think you're sophisticated enough to know that.  I applaud your effort to support your colleague JimBob1952 in his attempt to interject politics in a non-political thread....or am I wrong about that? I thought the OP was about crypto-currency, maybe in the minds of some this thread is about some political aspect...?
BTW, just so you know: there's nothing ever been said on this forum that doesn't roll off my back.  

EDIT:


> If it’s disinformation, why care?


@911 , Why care?   Maybe it's just a character flaw of mine, but I *do* care very much.  You're a former LE, isn't/ wasn't the truth important to you?


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## Harry Le Hermit (Nov 23, 2022)

Unbelievable...

https://www.nytimes.com/events/dealbook-summit#speakers ... 

Make your reservations now, at a mere $2,700 cost. I'm not sure which crypto-currency is valid!!


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## Brookswood (Nov 23, 2022)

Most likely the legal folks will have a job for many, many months figuring this mess out. .  Thankfully, I never invested a penny in Crypto of an sort with any Crypto company.


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## 911 (Nov 28, 2022)

Nathan said:


> Thanks for not lecturing, and expressing your belief about my personal matters.  The truth is always welcome, but I think you're sophisticated enough to know that.  I applaud your effort to support your colleague JimBob1952 in his attempt to interject politics in a non-political thread....or am I wrong about that? I thought the OP was about crypto-currency, maybe in the minds of some this thread is about some political aspect...?
> BTW, just so you know: there's nothing ever been said on this forum that doesn't roll off my back.
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


I’ve never been involved in politics. Many of these politicians have committed crimes and should be serving time. When that starts to happen, then maybe I can begin to care. Of course the comeback is “How do you know?” My answer is “Are you kidding me?” You can’t possibly believe that our politicians are all squeaky clean. I have read some of your posts. I know you’re not daft. Politics is one thing I can’t argue because I never really concerned myself with these people. I vote for who I believe to be the better person. I belong to no party or would I ever.


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## WhatInThe (Dec 13, 2022)

The CEO/Sam Brinkman Fried finally arrested. One day before he was supposed to testify before congress. HIs right to remain silent has been kept for him. His lawyers must have been going nuts with some of interviews let alone testimony before congress.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/12/ftx-founder-sam-bankman-fried-arrested-in-the-bahamas-after-us-files-criminal-charges.html

Just this afternoon he has also been formally charged by the US government.

https://www.kcra.com/article/former-ftx-ceo-sam-bankman-fried-charged-crypto/42227143


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## Warrigal (Dec 13, 2022)

David777 said:


> Brings a smile   to this peon's face reading about financial pain happening to money grubbers in our overly materialistic society.


IMO all money is an illusion. It only has value when it is spent on something tangible. Having money sitting idle in some fund or account is false security. I cannot convince Hubby of this concept.


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## Warrigal (Dec 13, 2022)

Paladin1950 said:


> I could never understand the logic of crypto currency. I want something that I can see and hold in my hands. I feel safer having my money in a bank. After all Billy the Kid and Jesse James, don't rob banks anymore.


Very true. Now the would be robbers just scam people into giving up their bank details and passwords so that the accounts can be emptied digitally.


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## WhatInThe (Dec 13, 2022)

Part of the issue with FTX and other 'collapses' is once word gets out that a fund/investor is a fraud many race to get their money causing a run on their bank with demand he simply could not meet. An investor here or there he probably could've handled. But all or a large number at once no way.


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## Packerjohn (Dec 13, 2022)

They are a bunch of greedy fools and deserve what they got.  It is common sense to put your money in the bank but no, these folks want to make a 100% or 300% profit in a short time.

I'm not banker but I know a fool and his money are quickly parted.
I also know that if the deal seems too good to be true, it is!
Remember Gamblers; "there is a sucker born every minute."

Sorry for the Preaching but I am no fan of cryo currencies.  Too many rip-off to suit me!


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## SeniorBen (Dec 13, 2022)

Why do so many people hate Sam Bankman Fried? He's an entrepreneur and innovator who has given millions to noble charities.

(Just kidding.     )


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## hawkdon (Dec 13, 2022)

yeah what the heck not like actual money was involved !!??


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## SeniorBen (Dec 13, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> They are a bunch of greedy fools and deserve what they got.  It is common sense to put your money in the bank but no, these folks want to make a 100% or 300% profit in a short time.
> 
> I'm not banker but I know a fool and his money are quickly parted.
> I also know that if the deal seems too good to be true, it is!
> ...


https://untappd.com/b/barrel-brothers-brewing-company-cryo-currency/4635748


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## Brookswood (Dec 13, 2022)

Worry less about SBF and more about the 0.6% interest rate that your local big name bank is paying you.   You can get over 4% on CDs from 3months to a year in maturity.


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## rgp (Dec 16, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> IMO all money is an illusion. It only has value when it is spent on something tangible. Having money sitting idle in some fund or account is false security. I cannot convince Hubby of this concept.



 So would you what ? Rather spend all of your income ? And have no nest-egg , no cushion ? If something expensive should arise ? 

 False security ? If you suddenly need $1000, $10,000 it's there if you've saved it.
 Would you rather try to *secure a loan, with no assets *? If you would even be granted said loan , the interest rate would be way up there.

IMO, perhaps you might listen to your Hubby.


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## Warrigal (Dec 16, 2022)

I didn't say we should spend all of our nest egg but as we need to we shouldn't hesitate. It does no good sitting in the bank where it receives interest that is much less than the inflation rate and it isn't safe when invested in shares.

After decades of saving for our retirement into our superannuation fund we retired thinking we could be self sufficient, living off our accumulated funds. Not long into retirement we were hit by the Global Financial Crisis that almost halved our savings. 

As a result, instead of being self funded retirees we are now part pensioners. We have not been silly with our capital but with the war in Ukraine it is possible that we could take another hit at any time. My policy now is to spend on essentials and also on things that make life pleasurable. Tomorrow I am going to the Sydney Opera House to see the ballet Romeo and Juliet. I am taking with me eight female family members. I paid for the tickets early in 2000 and the performance has been postponed twice because of Covid. It will be an expensive day out but the lovely memory of tomorrow will last me for the rest of my life and "my girls", as I call them, will also remember this day and remember me with a smile.

I have recently booked a similar outing in January for "our boys" so that Hubby can have the same pleasure. The menfolk, ten in all, will be watching a performance of "Afrique en Cirque" which is a South African troupe of dancers, drummers and acrobats. This time the party will include Hubby and nine male members of the family. Our son who lives in Albury (south of Sydney on the border with Victoria) is coming to visit and will take care of Hubby for the day. 

I consider the money I have outlaid for both events to be well spent. As my mother used to say, "There are no pockets in shrouds".


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## Brookswood (Dec 16, 2022)

rgp said:


> So would you what ? Rather spend all of your income ? And have no nest-egg , no cushion ? If something expensive should arise ?
> 
> False security ? If you suddenly need $1000, $10,000 it's there if you've saved it.
> Would you rather try to *secure a loan, with no assets *? If you would even be granted said loan , the interest rate would be way up there.
> ...


Of course, when the people who think money is an illusion or some other form of fakery or evil, find they really need some.....  They will lean on the government to take it from those who sacrificed, saved and invested, and give this illusionary nasty money to them.


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## Indiana Joe (Dec 16, 2022)

Geezerette said:


> Still can’t figure out how/why people get involved in this “play money”. I’m  kind of glad I’m too dumb to catch on.


You just ain't got the makings of an intrepid ENTREPRENEUR!


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## Brookswood (Dec 16, 2022)

Well, here's an interesting twist....

It seems that a lot of crypto money people entrusted to FTX was turned into  ordinary currency like dollars and given to various charities.   IOW, the money contributed to the charities was ill-gotten gain, and the rightful owners want their money back.    

And more of this alleged stolen  money was donated to political candiates!!



> there was “no meaningful distinction,”  and that SBF then used these “commingled FTX customers’ funds” to make “large political donations.” Put simply, SBF stands accused of using stolen money to fuel politics.





> FTX execs gave an additional  $3 million to the Senate Majority PAC, $2.25 million to Women Vote! and more than $1 million to the LGBTQ Victory   Fund. There were also donations  to the Democratic National  Committee, the Democratic House and Senate campaign funds, and state Democratic parties. And that’s only this cycle. SBF in 2020 gave more than $5 million to the elect-Biden effort.
> 
> Not that Republicans  aren’t also in  the hot seat. While  SBF’s declared donations  are primarily to  Democrats, Mr.  Salame turned up  this cycle as a GOP  megadonor.



The people whose money was stolen want it back. It looks like the politicians and charities that took the money and spent it are going to be in a world of hurt when the rightful owners try to claw-back the money. 

Are they having fun yet?


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## rgp (Dec 17, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> Of course, when the people who think money is an illusion or some other form of fakery or evil, find they really need some.....  They will lean on the government to take it from those who sacrificed, saved and invested, and give this illusionary nasty money to them.



 Exactly !


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## SeniorBen (Dec 17, 2022)

A lot of people are investing in NFTs these days. Talk about a waste of money.


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## WhatInThe (Dec 19, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> Well, here's an interesting twist....
> 
> It seems that a lot of crypto money people entrusted to FTX was turned into  ordinary currency like dollars and given to various charities.   IOW, the money contributed to the charities was ill-gotten gain, and the rightful owners want their money back.
> ..........
> ...


Clawbacks are exactly where this should go besides criminal court.

I don't even know if they made that much off of crypto because he was comingling client money from his 'regular' investment fund and the crypto fund.

And he was apparently using retail off the shelf accounting software Quickbooks when they made an attempt to keep records so we.might never know how bad, sloppy or corrupt he was.


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## Brookswood (Dec 19, 2022)

Here's another mess we can thank FTX for - a big tax headache.

Imagine you made money off of FTX, you paid taxes on the earnings.  Now the money is clawed-back so it can be returned to its rightful owners.   You had better file an amended return and get you money back from the IRS.    It just keeps getting worse.


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## Brookswood (Dec 19, 2022)

WhatInThe said:


> Clawbacks are exactly where this should go besides criminal court.


Some politicians who received contributions of the ill gotten money are now claiming they will give it to charity. What charity would be stupid enough to accept a contribution of what is most likely stolen money?  IMO, this could get even more messy if the the people who had the money stolen from them trace it to the charity.  Now the charity and the politician will both be on the hook for the claw-back.   What a mess!


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## WhatInThe (Dec 21, 2022)

FTX CEO's ex girlfriend pleads guilty to fraud. Will cooperate.

https://nypost.com/2022/12/21/bankm...ftx-co-founder-plead-guilty-to-fraud-charges/

FTX CEO now back in the US in NYC

https://nypost.com/2022/12/21/sam-bankman-fried-handed-over-to-us-authorities-heading-to-ny/

Probably going to a Brooklyn detention center. But in a NYC jail YIKES. Same city where Epstein was held before he ceased to exist


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## Brookswood (Dec 23, 2022)

Has anybody notice that all those people bragging about crypto and trying to hawk it to overbody else have suddenly gone silent?     I mean early this year crypto was praised as being a great store of value, much better than fiat currencies like the dollar or the euro.  Now, they are nowhere to be found.     Or maybe they have started investing in farmland in Antarctica?


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## WhatInThe (Dec 23, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> Has anybody notice that all those people bragging about crypto and trying to hawk it to overbody else have suddenly gone silent?     I mean early this year crypto was praised as being a great store of value, much better than fiat currencies like the dollar or the euro.  Now, they are nowhere to be found.     Or maybe they have started investing in farmland in Antarctica?


I don't think enough people realize he embezzled, stole or defrauded people out of cash money that was supposed to be invested in crypto. Crypto isn't the issue it's crime and criminals. He pulled cash money from both his crypto and general investment fund that was supposed to be actually invested.


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## WhatInThe (Dec 23, 2022)

Update FTX ceo Sam Fried Bankman SFB out on 250 MILLION dollars bail. His parents had to put up their mansion as collateral. But two unnamed wealthy people also cosigned for bail. Who are the anonymous bail posters and why did they help a notorious criminal suspect.

https://decrypt.co/117814/how-sam-bankman-frieds-250-million-bond-works

Apparently his 'bail' is considered an appearance bond. The type and amount requires 4 people to sign the bail agreement . His parents are 2 of the 4.  Who are the other 2?

Some is scared he will talk or Epsteined. As dangerous as jail would be being out in public isn't exactly safe either. 

Also his parents are college professors and put up their house/mansion worth millions, on a college professor salary?


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## Brookswood (Dec 23, 2022)

WhatInThe said:


> I don't think enough people realize he embezzled, stole or defrauded people out of cash money that was supposed to be invested in crypto. Crypto isn't the issue it's crime and criminals. He pulled cash money from both his crypto and general investment fund that was supposed to be actually invested.


You're right.  And you make a good point. Fraud and the mis-use of assets are a serious if not criminal issue. 

But, it goes beyond the alleged fraud.    Earlier this year *long before the SFB issue*, crypto people were telling us that it is a great store of value in inflationary times. And they put down fiat currencies like the dollar which suffered from inflation.   At one point Bitcoin was in the the area of $60,000 .  Now it is not quite $17,000.   It's down over 70%.   That is not a good store of value.    

Like I said, the crypto zealots have gone quite.


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## WhatInThe (Dec 23, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> ...  At one point Bitcoin was in the the area of $60,000 .  Now it is not quite $17,000.   It's down over 70%.   That is not a good store of value.
> ...


It is on a down cycle but one must wonder if FTX had actually put those billions of dollars in the crypto investments would the market have dropped as bad or quickly. 

His crimes unnecessarily affected the market because it's a safe bet there were panic sellers including large holders or investment fund managers that when they saw the initial headlines freaked and dropped/sold their crypto holdings. Panic selling can keep a market going down.


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## Brookswood (Dec 23, 2022)

WhatInThe said:


> It is on a down cycle but one must wonder if FTX had actually put those billions of dollars in the crypto investments would the market have dropped as bad or quickly.
> 
> His crimes unnecessarily affected the market because it's a safe bet there were panic sellers including large holders or investment fund managers that when they saw the initial headlines freaked and dropped/sold their crypto holdings. Panic selling can keep a market going down.


A down cycle?  That has to be a very strong competitor for the understatement of the year award. 

The market for crypto dropped because there is nothing of substance backing crypto. Not a thing. The dollar is backed by an economy the produces incredible amounts of goods and services that people need, want and are willing to trade for.  I offer these opinions as food for thought. Make up your own minds.

Oh, check out a copy of the book _Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds_.


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## HoneyNut (Dec 23, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> Like I said, the crypto zealots have gone quite.


But, I think they weren't 'zealots', it sounded in the coverage I've watched like a lot of the 'influencers' were getting *paid* to promote it, so the quiet now is probably mostly because they aren't getting paid now.  Though some of them have lost a lot of money themselves.


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## Brookswood (Dec 23, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> But, I think they weren't 'zealots', it sounded in the coverage I've watched like a lot of the 'influencers' were getting *paid* to promote it, so the quiet now is probably mostly because they aren't getting paid now.  Though some of them have lost a lot of money themselves.


An excellent point.  

From what I read some lawyers, knowing that getting money  SBF and associates will be difficult are looking at the people who profited by endorsing crypto.    They have some deep pockets which may help. 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/14/tech/celebrity-crypto-lawsuits/index.html

Make of this what you will. I am not a lawyer and have not played on TV.



> Tom Brady, Gisele Bundchen and others were sued in November by an FTX investor for their endorsement of the now-disgraced crypto platform, and then Brady and Ortiz were named again in early December in a similar lawsuit for their backing of FTX.


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## WhatInThe (Dec 23, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> A down cycle?  That has to be a very strong competitor for the understatement of the year award.
> 
> The market for crypto dropped because there is nothing of substance backing crypto. Not a thing. The dollar is backed by an economy the produces incredible amounts of goods and services that people need, want and are willing to trade for.  I offer these opinions as food for thought. Make up your own minds.
> 
> Oh, check out a copy of the book _Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds_.


The 'backing' of crypto is supposed to be the limit on the number of coins in circulation/on the net. Since it has been/is accepted as payment for some goods or services it has value. It's niche and not in mass acceptance. But some big companies accept it.

https://www.yahoo.com/video/15-major-companies-accept-bitcoin-155558584.html

It's bartering/not the typical transaction but is part of the economy.

Scammers like FTX/SFB dimished the value of it. But bad news can also affect the stock of a company.  A jet crashes, a medication kills an airline or drug company will probably experience  a drop.


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## JustDave (Dec 24, 2022)

I didn't buy any crypto because I don't have a clue who the guys were that invented it or why they did or who the big players are like SFB. Just look at the pictures of him doing the perp walk on yesterdays news.  Would you trust that guy?  Granted we  have some unsavory crooks in all departments of government.  But they have names and do have some checks and balances. Why do we need another form of currency, anyway?  My US dollars still work and can be traded for any other world currency when and if I need to.


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