# Wales-you couldn’t make it up-part two



## Furryanimal (Nov 30, 2020)

Here in Wales it was announced on Friday that there was to be no new lockdown.
So what have we done today in the Drakeford world of making it up as you go along?
Introduced Prohibition!
From Friday all pubs,cafes and restaurants will have to close at 6pm,except for take away services,But the biggy is this-
Pubs will not be allowed to serve ALCOHOL!At all.They can serve meals,soft drinks and hot drinks but nothing alcoholic.
So you can go to the pub and eat and drink but a beer or wine?No....because that would spread the virus,
So there you have it....Covid is spread by drinking alcohol in a pub.Or eating out after six.
You heard it here first.
And all indoor entertainment centres have to close too.
So no going to the cinema or the bowling alley.But it’s not a lockdown.
All shops will remain open as it is not a lockdown
We can still go where we like ,when we like.If we can find somewhere to go.
i am absolutely tamping at the absurdity of it all.


----------



## Wren (Nov 30, 2020)

Madness Furry !

and it seems the Covid virus is taking  a five day break over Christmas in England ....


----------



## Aunt Marg (Nov 30, 2020)

I still find myself scratching my head over the whole Covid thing, Furry.

From day one I have believed that we are not being informed of the scope of it all, and ten months in I remain steadfast in my belief that we are not being informed of the scope of it all.


----------



## Pappy (Nov 30, 2020)

If I’m understanding you correctly, I can order a meal and soda, but not a beer? This makes no sense at all.


----------



## StarSong (Nov 30, 2020)

The bottom line is that governments are desperately trying to stop the virus's spread.  Are they making some foolish decisions - and will hindsight be a lot closer to 20/20?  Of course.  

Regarding the alcohol restriction, my guess is that your government is (probably correctly) assuming that people will linger in public surroundings longer and engage in riskier behavior after a few glasses of wine or beers, than similar amount of soda, tea or water.  Who would argue that alcohol lowers our inhibitions?


----------



## Pepper (Nov 30, 2020)

Furryanimal said:


> So there you have it....Covid is spread by drinking alcohol in a pub.Or eating out after six.


I get this drift.  Drinking alcohol will tempt us to break the six feet distance rule to get all cuddly.


----------



## Pepper (Nov 30, 2020)

If I realized Star spoke first, I just would have said "Ditto."


----------



## Remy (Nov 30, 2020)

In my area, it appears the younger, 24 and under are a good percent of the cases. This could be because they are socializing more. There was a woman on the local news this AM, felt fine Thanksgiving, got sick Friday, has Covid confirmed, had guests at her home for Thanksgiving. This is not a good scenario.


----------



## Jules (Nov 30, 2020)

Pepper said:


> If I realized Star spoke first, I just would have said "Ditto."



I’m adding my DITTO to Star’s post.


----------



## Sunny (Nov 30, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> I still find myself scratching my head over the whole Covid thing, Furry.
> 
> From day one I have believed that we are not being informed of the scope of it all, and ten months in I remain steadfast in my belief that we are not being informed of the scope of it all.



Aunt Marg, what do you mean by "not being informed of the scope of it all?"  Do you think the infection rate and the death tolls are even worse than what the media are reporting?  Or are they really much lighter and we are being lied to?   If so, why?

It's hard to tell what "the scope" means.  If it just means statistics, of course the figures keep changing second by second. I just had lunch, reading the newspaper that was printed late last night. So any covid figures printed there would of course be out of date.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Nov 30, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Aunt Marg, what do you mean by "not being informed of the scope of it all?"  Do you think the infection rate and the death tolls are even worse than what the media are reporting?  Or are they really much lighter and we are being lied to?   If so, why?
> 
> It's hard to tell what "the scope" means.  If it just means statistics, of course the figures keep changing second by second. I just had lunch, reading the newspaper that was printed late last night. So any covid figures printed there would of course be out of date.


What I think, Sunny, is Covid-19 is even more deadly and unforgiving than we know, and even though strict measures and lockdowns have been implemented, I feel that we still don't know the true, full, honest-to-goodness severity of it, account officials holding back the true scope of it in order to to try and prevent absolute chaos.


----------



## Lewkat (Nov 30, 2020)

Remy said:


> In my area, it appears the younger, 24 and under are a good percent of the cases. This could be because they are socializing more. There was a woman on the local news this AM, felt fine Thanksgiving, got sick Friday, has Covid confirmed, had guests at her home for Thanksgiving. This is not a good scenario.


----------



## Lewkat (Nov 30, 2020)

There are several types of Corona viruses and anyone who dies now from one of them is being tagged as death due to COVID-19.  In 2003 we had a Corona Sars break out and it was a mess, but wasn't treated like this..  Nor was the Swine Flu which was far deadlier.  In researching at length, this particular strain seems to be causing premature strokes and countless blood clotting problems.  There is a Corona Sars-2 Asian Respiratory Virus which is tagged with this COVID-19 label.  Very confusing and makes me wonder if any of them know just what is what in the CDC.


----------



## Butterfly (Nov 30, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> There are several types of Corona viruses and anyone who dies now from one of them is being tagged as death due to COVID-19.  In 2003 we had a Corona Sars break out and it was a mess, but wasn't treated like this..  Nor was the Swine Flu which was far deadlier.  In researching at length, this particular strain seems to be causing premature strokes and countless blood clotting problems.  There is a Corona Sars-2 Asian Respiratory Virus which is tagged with this COVID-19 label.  Very confusing and makes me wonder if any of them know just what is what in the CDC.



They are being very careful not to mischaracterize deaths here.  I think the idea of mischaracterization is largely myth and unproven conspiracy theory.


----------



## Furryanimal (Dec 1, 2020)

Furryanimal said:


> Here in Wales it was announced on Friday that there was to be no new lockdown.
> So what have we done today in the Drakeford world of making it up as you go along?
> Introduced Prohibition!
> From Friday all pubs,cafes and restaurants will have to close at 6pm,except for take away services,But the biggy is this-
> ...





Furryanimal said:


> Here in Wales it was announced on Friday that there was to be no new lockdown.
> So what have we done today in the Drakeford world of making it up as you go along?
> Introduced Prohibition!
> From Friday all pubs,cafes and restaurants will have to close at 6pm,except for take away services,But the biggy is this-
> ...





StarSong said:


> The bottom line is that governments are desperately trying to stop the virus's spread.  Are they making some foolish decisions - and will hindsight be a lot closer to 20/20?  Of course.
> 
> Regarding the alcohol restriction, my guess is that your government is (probably correctly) assuming that people will linger in public surroundings longer and engage in riskier behavior after a few glasses of wine or beers, than similar amount of soda, tea or water.  Who would argue that alcohol lowers our inhibitions?


Yes-but since our pubs were allowed to reopen and serve indoors there is no evidence to suggest they have contributed to the spread of the virus as they have all been following strict,expensive to implement protocols.
Like the cafe I visit for breakfast where I supply my contact details every visit.
Where spread is occurring is the schools and universities but they remain open....and of course no students are going to stock up on booze from the supermarket and indulge in typical student behaviour.And evidence shows the virus is also spreading within hospitals.Which were under more strain this time last year.
This out of the blue of announcement after establishments had spent thousands getting stock in for the busy run in to Christmas is going to achieve nothing other than to send more businesses under-which I am becoming increasingly convinced is our governments policy.Because when it comes to doing anything that makes sense they really do not have a clue.


----------



## Tish (Dec 1, 2020)

Honestly Furry that makes no sense at all.
*SMH*


----------



## StarSong (Dec 1, 2020)

@Furryanimal, have your health department or epidemiologists explained the reasons behind these particular closures?


----------



## garyt1957 (Dec 1, 2020)

StarSong said:


> The bottom line is that governments are desperately trying to stop the virus's spread.  Are they making some foolish decisions - and will hindsight be a lot closer to 20/20?  Of course.
> 
> Regarding the alcohol restriction, my guess is that your government is (probably correctly) assuming that people will linger in public surroundings longer and engage in riskier behavior after a few glasses of wine or beers, than similar amount of soda, tea or water.  Who would argue that alcohol lowers our inhibitions?


I agree and would add people may also go out just to have a pint so banning alcohol will limit that. Not that I agree with it, but can kind of see where there going. We had bars closed here yet restaurants were open, even restaurants that served alcohol.  The restaurants got wise and started staying open to 2am because people would come in and just drink. Of course bars were irate about it.


----------



## Treacle (Dec 1, 2020)

In England:

MPs will be voting for a tier virus assessment i.e the higher the tier the more restrictions. If you are in Tier 2 you may meet in a pub, numbers restricted, and all safety measures in place etc. But in order to have an alcoholic drink one must have a substantial meal:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...finitely-a-substantial-meal-says-michael-gove

Vaccine roll out 'guru' Nadhim Zahawi has suggested that a vaccine certificate may be necessary to enter a pub, restaurant or cinema and yet:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55143484

I posted this elsewhere in @asp3. Apologies


----------



## fmdog44 (Dec 1, 2020)

Is it not obvious by now to all that no government knows what to do. They are dumb on this mess but they are obligated to do and say something so this is what we get. I saw earlier today the numbers of new cases will force hospitals to reuse new patients this week. We are on our own from here on in.


----------



## asp3 (Dec 1, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Is it not obvious by now to all that no government knows what to do. They are dumb on this mess but they are obligated to do and say something so this is what we get. I saw earlier today the numbers of new cases will force hospitals to reuse new patients this week. We are on our own from here on in.



Without trying to get political some governments have known what to do, have done it, their citizens have followed the rules they set up and they are in much better shape than other countries both economically and in Covid case rates and death rates.

As @CarolfromTX has pointed out some of the successful governments have a geographical advantage by leading island nations, but non-island nation governments have also been more successful than countries around them.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Dec 1, 2020)

My BFF and I were talking about the mandate here that restaurants must close by 10:00.  I questioned the logic of that. She was saying that the thought is that people pump it up to party mode after 10 and that once the drinking starts people loosen up and are more likely to let their guards (and masks) down.  May*be*.  Another friend and I questioned the logic behind other restrictions or lack thereof.


----------



## Knight (Dec 1, 2020)

StarSong said:


> The bottom line is that governments are desperately trying to stop the virus's spread.  Are they making some foolish decisions - and will hindsight be a lot closer to 20/20?  Of course.
> 
> Regarding the alcohol restriction, my guess is that your government is (probably correctly) assuming that people will linger in public surroundings longer and engage in riskier behavior after a few glasses of wine or beers, than similar amount of soda, tea or water.  Who would argue that alcohol lowers our inhibitions?


It's bad enough when alcohol causes this





but get covid 19 too is too much.


----------



## Furryanimal (Dec 2, 2020)

StarSong said:


> @Furryanimal, have your health department or epidemiologists explained the reasons behind these particular closures?


no-but pubs have provided the evidence to show they are not Covid spreaders.
Even in the highest tiers of restrictions in England you can have a pint with a meal.
But the Pfizer vaccine has been approved for use in the UK and roll out starts next week.
In Wales we will get an ID style card to show we have been vaccinated.Although it will not be compulsory there is a growing belief that event organizers and businesses will make proof of vaccination a condition of accessing their services.
Meaning you will have to have it if you want your life back.
I am now confident my life will resume roughly a year after it ground to a halt.
Britain is the first country in the world to be rolling out mass vaccination.
But nothing will convince me we got our approach to this correct at any time.

Meanwhile a pubwatch consortium in North Wales has banned Welsh First Minister Drakeford from all 100 of it’s pubs until 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





May 2022!


----------



## StarSong (Dec 2, 2020)

Furryanimal said:


> no-but pubs have provided the evidence to show they are not Covid spreaders.
> Even in the highest tiers of restrictions in England you can have a pint with a meal.


That's interesting.  In the US, gyms, churches, bars and restaurants are reputed to be the worst spreaders of this virus.


----------



## Rosemarie (Dec 2, 2020)

I can understand the logic of closing all eating and drinking establishments apart from take-aways. Anywhere where a number of people are sharing the same space, and drinking/eating utensils is sure to spread any virus.
 I do not understand the logic of closing non-essential shops. What is the difference between going into a shop to buy food and going into a shop to buy light bulbs,etc?


----------



## StarSong (Dec 2, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> I can understand the logic of closing all eating and drinking establishments apart from take-aways. Anywhere where a number of people are sharing the same space, and drinking/eating utensils is sure to spread any virus.
> I do not understand the logic of closing non-essential shops. What is the difference between going into a shop to buy food and going into a shop to buy light bulbs,etc?


Our hardware stores remained open and were considered "essential" even during the strictest closure mandates.  Were yours closed?


----------



## Rosemarie (Dec 2, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Our hardware stores remained open and were considered "essential" even during the strictest closure mandates.  Were yours closed?


Yes. I had to buy a new lamp because my local shop was closed and I couldn't get the special bulbs I needed.


----------



## StarSong (Dec 2, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> Yes. I had to buy a new lamp because my local shop was closed and I couldn't get the special bulbs I needed.


The rationale here was that home repair would be very important during safer-at-home periods.  More people in a house for longer periods meant items would break down at the very time when bringing in outside repair people was unsafe.  

Plus it would give putterers something to do with their huge blocks of free time.


----------



## Gaer (Dec 2, 2020)

Here in New Mexico,the idiot Governor closed all the restaurants for inside eating but they can serve food outside, in December, really?
The liquor stores are closed but all the grocery stores sell liquor as well as Wallmart.(!!???!!!??!!)


----------



## hollydolly (Dec 2, 2020)

StarSong said:


> The rationale here was that home repair would be very important during safer-at-home periods.  More people in a house for longer periods meant items would break down at the very time when bringing in outside repair people was unsafe.
> 
> Plus it would give putterers something to do with their huge blocks of free time.


Well of course that makes perfect sense , which we public made an argument for.. but we were ignored as always  by this arrogant know nothing Government and Sage advisers..  ! Then they have the nerve to tell people not to stock up on anything.. of course people are going to stock up, because  we know that if they lock us down again with a just a day two's notice we're going to be stuck again without ''essential'' non-essential items


----------



## hollydolly (Dec 2, 2020)

Gaer said:


> Here in New Mexico,the idiot Governor closed all the restaurants for inside eating but they can serve food outside, in December, really?
> The liquor stores are closed but all the grocery stores sell liquor as well as Wallmart.(!!???!!!??!!)


Same here...  can you imagine eating outside in December in the UK..especially in the North of the UK ?


----------



## Furryanimal (Dec 2, 2020)

Treacle said:


> In England:
> 
> MPs will be voting for a tier virus assessment i.e the higher the tier the more restrictions. If you are in Tier 2 you may meet in a pub, numbers restricted, and all safety measures in place etc. But in order to have an alcoholic drink one must have a substantial meal:
> 
> ...


The telling phrase from a Michael Gove is this

‘He added that individual businesses would "of course" have the "capacity to make decisions about who they will admit and why".
So while the UK and devolved parliaments may not pass a law requiring you to be vaccinated to access services there is no reason why individual businesses cannot make it a requirement.If they collectively go down that route the vaccine becomes compulsory by stealth.
Anyway a friend on another forum is getting the first of her two vaccinations on Tuesday.Being in what is considered to be a vulnerable group(she’s too young to be on here).We await news of possible side effects!


----------



## Capt Lightning (Dec 4, 2020)

Here in Scotland we have 5 tiers of restriction.  I live in a tier 2 (medium risk) area.  This means that while I'm not allowed to travel to England, Wales or N.Ireland  without reasonable excuse (there's a long list of reasonable excuses), I can go on a foreign holiday if I choose.  Not only that, I can legitimately travel to an airport or sea port even if it is in a high risk area.


----------

