# Quebec's euthansia bill passed last Thursday



## mellow (Jun 9, 2014)

Groups opposed to euthanasia vow to fight Quebec’s adoption June 5 of Bill-52 “An act on end-of-life care” that brings euthanasia to the province.

	   The new law, passed 94-22, allows doctors to kill their patients if they request so-called “medical aid in dying.” It treats euthanasia as health care, which is under provincial jurisdiction, while the Criminal Code, which lists it as culpable homicide, is under federal jurisdiction.

I fully support this legislation, what do you think?


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## Warrigal (Jun 9, 2014)

It worries me.


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## mellow (Jun 9, 2014)

I'm sure you have some good reasons, what are they?


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## Happyflowerlady (Jun 9, 2014)

I have mixed feelings about this law. On  the one hand, I do think it is a good thing in some cases. If I were dying, and were only going to lie there and suffer until I died, I would much prefer to be put to sleep humanely, like we can do for our pets.
I watched my FIL die after a severe heart attack.   He never regained consciousness, and the doctor finally told the family that there was no hopes of him doing that. They had to keep him severely sedated because he was still having heart attacks, and even unconscious, he would shoot straight up in the bed with his eyes bugging out, and you could tell he was in terrible pain. The family made the decision to take him off of life support; so then his lungs filled up, and he died.  It was terrible....one of the worst things I have ever had to watch in my life ! !  Gentle euthanasia would have been so much kinder.

The other side of that, is, where will it end ?? When does it stop being the person, or the family, that would make this decision ?? We have already heard about the so-called "death panels" that are being implemented into our health insurance; and one wonders if we are getting closer to that time when older people, or sick people, will just be "put down" by government choice.
This is one of those things that can be used for good or for bad for humanity; depending on the humanity of the people administering it.


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## Warrigal (Jun 9, 2014)

mellow said:


> I'm sure you have some good reasons, what are they?



First let me quote one of my favourite Shakespearean passages:



> “Cowards die many times before their deaths;
> The valiant never taste of death but once.
> Of all the wonders that I yet have heard,
> It seems to me most strange that men should fear;
> ...



Death and dying are part of life. I don't believe in prolonging death once the process of dying has begun. Hubby and I both agree that we don't want any heroic efforts to save our lives should we have a terminal illness or a catastrophic event such as heart attack or stroke. In fact, should one of us experience the latter at home, the other will delay calling an ambulance to avoid going to hospital only to be placed on artificial life support.

I don't believe that withdrawing life support is active euthanasia and other than to give a family time to come to terms with the imminent loss, I don't think it has very much point. 

However, I would like the option of dying in my own time. I would want to be made as comfortable as possible and just be left in peace to get on with it. I wouldn't want to be force fed but neither would I want to be dispatched like a sick dog, because I am a human being. I think I will find the courage to face my own death and if my loved ones can't handle it then they should stay away until it is over. I don't want a needle in my arm just to ease their distress. I don't want an overdose because someone thinks that I have no further reason to cling to life. How and when I go is between me and my Maker.

That is not to say that my wishes are for everybody. 

I do worry about what it does to doctors to have to dispatch the old and the sick regularly. I can't imagine what it is like to kill young patients, even when you believe that you are doing them a kindness. Perhaps the way to go might be physician assisted suicide of lucid patients. I just don't know. That's why I worry.


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## Kaya (Jun 9, 2014)

I am all for it. We show more compassion to pets than we do to people.


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## Warrigal (Jun 9, 2014)

I note that the bill requires the patient to request death. 
That rules out compassion as the motivation.
You can't euthanize someone just because you believe that they are in unbearable pain, but you can administer pain relief.
This happens now, and if the medication hastens death, then the doctor is not considered to have acted against the law.

Mellow, are you from Canada? I see that there is a reference to a clash between Provincial Law and Federal Law over this issue. Where does that leave the doctors?

Edit - Silly me, Mellow. We've already had a conversation about where you live. Sydney, like me.


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## i_am_Lois (Jun 10, 2014)

I worked in a nursing home for 8 years. Any nurse will tell you that the most horrible death is for those who struggle at the end to breathe. 
My own dear sister who died April 11th of this year, had lost her struggle with lung cancer. 
She was on Hospice. She was getting a continuous morphine drip in the highest strength allowed by law. 
She still suffered horribly with pain in her last few days.
At this near death point of someone's existence, they have absolutely no quality of life left.
I think too many of us have watched movies like Wuthering Heights. At the end Lawrence Oliver carries Merle Oberon to the window, where there is a loving, tender scene before the character Cathy dies. That is fiction. Real death is a complete loss of body functions, loss of reasoning, total exhaustion, the shutting down of your organs, panic as your lungs fill with fluid and unending, horrific pain. 
I'm not thinking about what my loved ones want at a time like this. When I reach this stage of the process of death, I would welcome any doctor ending my suffering peacefully. I live where that practice is illegal. All I can hope for at this moment is for a massive heart attack that kills me swiftly.
I say *YES* to euthanasia!


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## mellow (Jun 10, 2014)

It's good to hear from a no-nonsense nurse Lois.  I too live in a place where it's illegal so what we would like to see happen probably won't in our lifetime.  I think the Dutch have it right.

_Voluntary euthanasia or physician assisted suicide, where a doctor is present while a patient kills themselves, usually by drinking a strong barbiturate potion, has been legal in the Netherlands since 2002.  Cases have more than doubled over the decade to 2012.  One explanation for this is the introduction last year of mobile euthanasia units allowing patients to die at home by voluntary lethal injection when family doctors refused. _


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## Kaya (Jun 10, 2014)

i_am_Lois said:


> I worked in a nursing home for 8 years. Any nurse will tell you that the most horrible death is for those who struggle at the end to breathe.
> My own dear sister who died April 11th of this year, had lost her struggle with lung cancer.
> She was on Hospice. She was getting a continuous morphine drip in the highest strength allowed by law.
> She still suffered horribly with pain in her last few days.
> ...



Applause ^


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## Kaya (Jun 10, 2014)

We are barbarians in this field. Barbarians. And most of it is flat out selfishness from the family members. Those who bicker over someone's wishes to die quickly and sooner than the final suffering, only think of themselves..not the ones in the proverbial boat.


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## Falcon (Jun 10, 2014)

What if the "patient"  is an under aged child ?   WHO makes the decision then?


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## Davey Jones (Jun 10, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> First let me quote one of my favourite Shakespearean passages:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 FULLY AGREE with your thinking,I saw my Mother and Father on life support and was the only one in the family that wanted to "pull the plug".  Its in my will that If I cant function normally and communicate with others at my bedside then LET ME GO.


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## marinaio (Jun 10, 2014)

And when we proceed to the next logical and inevitable step, the decision being made by someone other than the ill person?  How do you all feel about an impatient doctor who wants to harvest a few organs or perhaps get paid more quickly or the impatient family members who want your stuff, now?  

I came into this world helpless and dependent on others, I expect to leave this world in similar fashion; naturally, without being poisoned, starved or suffocated.

I think this law is an indication of the sad state into which humanity has declined.


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## mellow (Jun 10, 2014)

I appreciate and respect your point of view.  However, with euthanasia, the decision is made by the person wanting to die, and nobody else.  If they don't make that decision, nothing happens.


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## Ruth (Jun 10, 2014)

Kaya said:


> I am all for it. We show more compassion to pets than we do to people.



I agree. I support it.


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## Bettyann (Jun 10, 2014)

About doctor's having to 'do' this ... I am sure it is individual... but I do know that from working for several years in an Alzheimer's facility...that during that last stage in which these bodies have no semblance of real human life, if one of the pts came down sick, the doctors would NOT treat it aggressively, but would only make sure there didn't seem to be an 'in pain' reaction... and truly, it was a total reason for rejoicing when the body died... 
The whole thing about death is so enmeshed with religious ideas which often makes any kind of 'reasoning' unquestionable...it can even inhibit ASKING questions.


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## Warrigal (Jun 10, 2014)

Bettyann said:


> About doctor's having to 'do' this ... I am sure it is individual... but I do know that from working for several years in an Alzheimer's facility...that during that last stage in which these bodies have no semblance of real human life, if one of the pts came down sick, the doctors would NOT treat it aggressively, but would only make sure there didn't seem to be an 'in pain' reaction... and truly, it was a total reason for rejoicing when the body died...
> The whole thing about death is so enmeshed with religious ideas which often makes any kind of 'reasoning' unquestionable...it can even inhibit ASKING questions.



Withholding of pointless treatment is fine with me  but I would expect good palliative care to be administered. If a person has terminal cancer and is in their end stage then antibiotics for a lung or urinary affection may be withheld to allow a less painful end. All of these measures can happen now without any need for supporting legislation.

My mother and aunts have all died in a nursing home, with family in attendance, and their passing has been well managed. My husband's brother died of cancer but he and his wife excluded everyone else from his last days. They wanted privacy. I guess what I am saying is that death is not a one size fits all situation. It does need to be talked about before the event.


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## mellow (Jun 10, 2014)

Although it’s rather long, this account of her mother’s death by Australian author Nova Weetman I found rather moving.  She calls it “The problem with euthanasia.

_Nine months ago my mum asked me to buy an axe and chop her head off. I joked with her. Told her it would be a messy way to go. She was lying in a palliative care ward, dying of cancer. Chopping her head off might have been messy, but at least it would have been quick.

Death isn’t like birth. It doesn’t happen over a couple of days. And there’s no-one standing by ready to assist if it looks like it’s going to go longer. Dying takes time. Before I watched my mum die, I’d always believed so outspokenly in euthanasia. I was adamant that I would help my loved ones find a peaceful end if I were ever in that position. I remember conversations when mum and I joked about pushing her wheelchair off a cliff if she made it to a hundred. But it’s just not that simple. It’s not a question of legality. Or morality. It’s a question of how selfish you are.

Even if I’d been able to slip mum a magic tablet to help her die painlessly in her sleep, would I have done it? I’m no longer so sure. The process of dying isn’t for the patient; it’s for the carers. I wasn’t ready for her to die. I needed it to take time. Over those weeks, I needed to process how I was going to feel. I had to prepare myself for her death, and I did it by sitting by her bed day and night, watching her struggle to breath, refusing to eat, and growing angrier and more distant. It was only after watching her suffer, that I was fully ready for her to go.

It’s selfish. I know that. I’ve struggled with that since she died. It surprised me to learn how selfish I was, even though I knew the pain she was in. It shocked me to realise how willing I was to compromise her quality of life, just so she could stick around for a bit longer. I’ve excused my selfishness by believing that I wouldn’t be like that with just anyone. I needed my mother. I still do. So I guess my need for her to live trumped her need to want help to die. I hope I would not be so selfish with my children or my partner. I hope I could recognise their pain and let them go.

We had never really discussed euthanasia until she asked me to chop off her head. We’d had the time, but instead we talked only of the holidays we would have, or the nights my children would come and stay with her, when she was better. We just never let ourselves go there; preferring to pretend that she would get better. That’s the problem with euthanasia. It’s only an option if you are prepared to consider your mortality. And for my mum, that didn’t happen until it was very obvious she wasn’t coming home from hospital and by then it was too late to plan anything as difficult as assisted suicide, even if I’d been willing to help.

One afternoon my uncle arrived from interstate to farewell my mum, his last remaining sibling. A farmer, and a father of a child who had been very ill for a long time, he was pragmatic about saying goodbye. We didn’t talk much, but he did comment on how cruel he thought dying was, that if she (my mother) were a cow, they would have shot her by now. She was in a Catholic palliative care hospital, and his only other comment was that the bloody priests could fiddle with kids but they couldn’t let people die with respect. He was right. On both counts. But that afternoon, sitting next to her, in the small room, holding her hand as he said this, I was so furious I wanted to scream. I couldn’t believe he could be so callous, so unsentimental.

He didn’t come to the funeral. He explained that he’d rather say his goodbyes when she was alive than dead, and then he hugged me and left. He was practiced in the ways of death. He’d shot suffering animals. He’d watched a whole ward of children die, with his daughter the only one to live. He was okay with it. But I wasn’t.

For months before she went into hospital, my mum was so sick she could barely eat. Losing weight rapidly, she was a walking skeleton. I became obsessed with feeding her. I would cook six different dishes, sourcing ingredients like a crazed chef, and then drive it all across town, often ignoring the needs of my own young family, to try and tempt her with tiny mouthfuls, like a baby bird. It was perverse. She was dying, even then, and we all refused to see it. Instead I was force-feeding her like I would my son when he avoided vegetables for the third day in a row.

The sicker she got, the more I mothered her. For a while she was happy with me treating her like a child. And I was happy with that role, because if I had something practical to do then I could pretend that I was controlling what happened. I could believe that we were somehow beating the cancer.

The day she went to hospital for the last time was one of the brightest she had over those last months. I sat with her for most of the day, making her eat the hospital food that she clearly didn’t want. That day though she placated me. She even managed to sit in a chair for two hours, and talk. She had a nurse who clearly liked her and kept popping in with little extras to make her comfortable. My mum told stories and the nurse kept returning for more. She wanted my mum’s advice on things, and my mum clearly loved being asked. I realised that day that I hadn’t asked her advice for months. Instead I’d stolen something from her. I’d been so determined she would live, so terrified of considering the possibility she wouldn’t, that I’d babbled for six months. Told her all sorts of crap about what was going on. Chatted like it was pouring out of me, with no other outlet, and not once had I really asked what she wanted. If she was scared. If she knew she was dying. If she could tell me what to do.

And that’s the thing with dying. For the person doing the dying, they are ahead of the rest of us. They are waiting desperately for the audience to catch up, for us to hopefully find peace before they go, so they can unburden themselves of the conversation. But if we are too scared to see it, then all they can do is make crude jokes about cutting off their head with an axe.
When she was moved into palliative care, she shut me out. She was cross if I turned up with food. She’d stopped eating altogether, and it was only to please me that she’d occasionally accept a morsel. She was ready to go. But I still wouldn’t let her.
Over the last 24 hours of her life, we were all there. My dad, my brother, and my brother’s partner. Sitting by her bed, not really talking, holding her hand, and answering when she’d barely manage to say I love you. That night, we ordered Thai food from down the road and sat in the waiting area eating takeaway, while my mum dozed on and off in her room. I remember thinking how perverse it was that we were fighting over the last spring roll, while she was getting ready to die.

I don’t know what I expected death to be. But it wasn’t the morphine-induced state that my mother was in. As we crowded around her bed that night, waiting for her to die, the nurse kept coming in and commenting on how strong her pulse was. Death didn’t seem close. At one point, maybe an hour before she died, she even managed to sit up and pull me down on top of her, whispering in her scratchy broken voice about how she loved us. And then over and over in forced words she asked if it was time. That night, watching how totally not my mother she had become, I was ready for her to die. I wanted her to stop breathing. But instead she kept talking. Trying to tell us to look after each other. And I realised she wasn’t quite ready now. We’d somehow swapped positions. Mine was still fuelled by selfishness. I didn’t want to watch the agony of it anymore. I just wanted her to go.

And then in thirty seconds, she just stopped breathing. Just like that. No warning. No death rattle. Just silence.

After she died, I was elated. I’d sat in that room for so many weeks and slept on the fold-out chair for so many nights, drunk too many cups of coffee, and worried. Suddenly, it was all done. I wasn’t consumed anymore. Nothing else was going to happen to her. We went to Williamstown that afternoon. Wandered through the streets of my mother’s childhood. We ate ice cream and played on the docks. And I felt free.

That feeling lasted a day. The elation was gone by the next morning. When I woke, I was confused. I was ready to go and see her and then I remembered that she wasn’t there anymore. And I realised, in that moment, that if I was given the option, I would rather her remain forever dying in a hospital bed where I could at least sit alongside and hold her warm hand, than be gone. Selfish maybe, but she was my mum._


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## Ina (Jun 10, 2014)

Thank you Mellow, there is a lot there for thought.


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## mellow (Jun 10, 2014)

Ina said:


> Thank you Mellow, there is a lot there for thought.



Thank you Ina, I applaud her honesty, it's hard to admit to selfishness.


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## Warrigal (Jun 10, 2014)

A very frank personal account.
My story is rather different but I think I've already given it somewhere else.

Here's the short version.

My mum, at 91 and suffering from senile dementia but otherwise in good health, just decided one day to refuse food and drink. She was not depressed; on the contrary she was exhibiting elation. It fell to me to give written instructions to the nursing home that they were not to attempt artificial feeding if she continued to refuse nourishment.

She was resolute and would only take a few sips of honey and lemon in water to freshen her mouth. I tried to slip in some soup on one occasion and was firmly rebuffed. My daughter (a nurse) arranged the best palliative care to keep her comfortable. She required no sedatives and no pain medication, just something to smooth out the brain waves to eliminate muscle spasms. Over the period of a week she drifted away, receiving visitors until she slipped into unconsciousness. Then she departed quietly at midnight a few minutes before I was able to get there. 

Death is not necessarily horrific.


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## Harley (Jun 10, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> A very frank personal account.
> My story is rather different but I think I've already given it somewhere else.
> 
> Here's the short version.
> ...




That is a bit reminiscent of my mother in law. She had been ill and was sent to a nursing  home for rehab. She was not interested in rehab, as her quality of life was over. We wanted to bring her home, and were discussing it when we got a call they had to have an ambulance take her to the hospital, as she had pneumonia. At that time she requested her Doctor  not to do any heroic means to keep her alive. She also requested he not give her anymore of her meds/ He agreed after speaking with us. It was her decision, and we had to respect it. It was difficult, but we understood. 
That was about 1 p.m., and she died at 5:30 a.m. the next morning. Like you, we had been with her, and when we left to go pick something up, she died. I truly felt she didn't want us there when she went. I've always thought she was very brave, and hope to have that bravery myself, if that should happen. 

 I have no desire to linger. So I am not sure yet about the euthanasia, but if I am able to make that choice for myself, I may very well do so.


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## Ina (Jun 10, 2014)

Dame Warrigal, I do understand what you are saying. When the VA hospital called me, and told me that my father, (who I hadn't seen since I was 13), was dieing and they wanted me to come get him. As you know, I went and talked to the doctors, and was told he only had about 30 days left. I took him, his oxygen machine, and a hospital bed into my family's home.

Although I was still the evil daughter, my father felt it was my place to care for him.

Well he lived , and got better, and I do think my family gave him some pleasure. I had never spoken to my family about our estrangement, so they and my father were able to have good relationships.
I had asked my father if he had any requests about his future arrangements, and he said he didn't care what I did, as long as I promised not to put him away somewhere.
My father lived for five more years, and one night, after watching some old westerns on his TV he died quietly in his sleep. 
If take after him in only one way, I hope it is that.


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## Kaya (Jun 10, 2014)

Horror of horrors...I never want a Nova in my life. Oh hell no. That story is awful. The pure definition of selfishness and the "mum" was at her mercy. Shudder.


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## Spirit22 (Jun 11, 2014)

We are all different people, which is why we are all unique, and we are all entitled to our opinions and have our own feelings. On this issue, all I personally can say is: I've watched two members of my family while they were in the process of passing away, my grandmother (when I was 13), and my dad, (in 2010), both from cancer, both in pain that morphine would not relieve, and both crying out that they wanted to be peaceful and just be able to die. Once it is to that point, there is no dignity in going through that. I prayed and asked God to take them both to relieve them from their pain and take them to the peace they so desperately wanted and needed. 

I don't believe in keeping a pet alive when they are to that point, because I feel it is a very selfish thing to do, and if I were at that point, I would not want anyone to want to see me go through that just because they didn't want to let me go; I would hope they would love me enough not to want me to suffer; I would appreciate in my last breath that someone was compassionate enough to put me out of my misery, because I know I will be going to a better place of peace.


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## Jackie22 (Jun 11, 2014)

Thanks, Mellow, for the story, this hits home with me.  An incident happened yesterday with my 93 year old mom that has left me knowing that she is having to face the fact of giving up her independence.  She has always fought hard to take care of herself, and I have tried to back off and let her do what she could but she is beginning to make some bad moves and I just dread what is coming....


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## mellow (Jun 11, 2014)

Jackie22 said:


> Thanks, Mellow, for the story, this hits home with me.  An incident happened yesterday with my 93 year old mom that has left me knowing that she is having to face the fact of giving up her independence.  She has always fought hard to take care of herself, and I have tried to back off and let her do what she could but she is beginning to make some bad moves and I just dread what is coming....



What sort of bad moves Jackie?


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## Jackie22 (Jun 11, 2014)

mellow said:


> What sort of bad moves Jackie?



Problems due to memory loss and extreme paranoia....if I confront her with her mistakes
she gets very defensive and verbally abusive to me.....I just get quiet and try not to talk back as I know she is scared and worried....I know this is common when dealing with elderly parents, just does not make it easier...as in all hard situations I'll have to suck it up and deal with it....lol


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## Warrigal (Jun 11, 2014)

My advice is to seek advice.

We can call on an Aged Care Assessment Team to assess the level of dementia or other health problems that might mean that it is no longer safe to allow a senior to live independently. They check mental processes, the contents of the fridge and the level of support from family and community. If they give their approval, acceptance into a care facility is usually fairly swift. 

Another source of advice is the local primary health care service, eg a general practitioner. At some stage respect for the independence of an elderly person can tip over into benign neglect. It's never easy but often it is nowhere near as hard as anticipated. Some elderly actually like being cared for and having people to talk to, especially if they are a bit extroverted.


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## JustBonee (Jun 11, 2014)

Jackie22 said:


> Thanks, Mellow, for the story, this hits home with me.  An incident happened yesterday with my 93 year old mom that has left me knowing that she is having to face the fact of giving up her independence.  She has always fought hard to take care of herself, and I have tried to back off and let her do what she could but she is beginning to make some bad moves and I just dread what is coming....



Tough love.  It's always hard.   By the 90's it probably is time to think about safety over independence.  I have an aunt and her husband .. 92 & 93 now, who fought their "kids" to stay in their home.  But last year, a few times too many my aunt would leave the stove on after making their dinner and it got the family thinking.   .. better safe in an assisted living home, then burning down their house.
They fought the move for a little while, but soon adjusted to the new living arrangements.  And it's been about a year now.


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## CPA-Kim (Jun 11, 2014)

I have watched someone struggle through agonizing pain despite being on a morphine drip.....for weeks.  She had zero chance of survival.  I support this measure as long as it is requested.


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## Bettyann (Jun 11, 2014)

This is in regard to the loved ones who just 'stepped out for a minute' or were not able to be there when their loved one died.
During my training as a CNA, we had a wonderful hospital Chaplin talk to us about this. He said, in all his years of experience what he observed a lot of was that the loved one took the 'opportunity' to transpire when their family/friends left the room. It was his belief that the family/friends could 'hold the person back' from dying because these were the 'thought transmissions' the dying ones received.
 I myself believe this is true. He said, of course, there were cases in which the family was able to 'let go' and would lovingly allow the person to 'go on'...because after all, it would be to their GAIN and peace. My own mother died in the two minutes it took (in the hospital) for me to make a call to my Aunt to ask her to come to the hospital.
Maybe when we finally see death as not being the enemy and that there is no 'real' separation...(again, my own spiritual belief) we will all feel more at peace about the natural process of life.
I was blessed to have been present during some of my hospice pts deaths and could tell you phenomenal things that they 'saw' and 'heard'... close or at the times of their transitioning.


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## Ina (Jun 11, 2014)

Bettyann, I can't say for the others, but I would like to hear of those things. Could you start a new thread on it, so that those that don't want to know can just skip over it. :thankyou:


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## Bettyann (Jun 11, 2014)

Ina said:


> Bettyann, I can't say for the others, but I would like to hear of those things. Could you start a new thread on it, so that those that don't want to know can just skip over it. :thankyou:



Okey dokey...will start it tomorrow!~!


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## Happyflowerlady (Jun 11, 2014)

I think that there are two separate issues we are talking about here. One is whether it is okay to have a law allowing people to choose to die right away when there is no hope for them to ever recover again, and thee future holds only pain and suffering.
The second thing we have been talking about is whether death always involves suffering, or if it can just end peacefully.
The truth is that it can be either way. As has been shared, some people have had loved ones that just drifted off and were gone. Some have lost loved ones through suffering. 
When my mother was dying, I was devastated. I cried every day because i could not bear to see her hurting, and yet I could not bear to lose her either. Finally, I just gave it to God and asked that if she was not going to get better, that he would take her home. My mom died peacefully in her sleep, and before she died, she was telling me that she was helping angels take care of a little Mexican family that were being sheltered in the basement. Since I knew the hospital didn't have any misplaced family in the basement, I believed that my mom was making the transition from this world to the next one.  She happily went to help the angels....


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## Ina (Jun 11, 2014)

I woke up last night thinking about my boys, and the painful way they died. ER in 1993 at 27, and Young Michael at 45 last February.
I have always believed that we humans come into this world to learn a set lessons. I think we stay until we learn the lesson, or maybe we have to stay until we teach what we were meant to teach.
Then it dawned on me that my son's are gone because they received they're lessons. They were both good men, so I can only believe that they are happy wherever their they're journey has taken them. I know that it could all be wishful thinking on my part, but it brings me peace.
Now I'm wondering what lessons are still out there for me, or what is it that I need to teach or pass on to someone else?
My heart is not as heavy as it was yesterday. ray:


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## Warrigal (Jun 11, 2014)

Write your story, Ina.
You are an inspiration to others.


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 11, 2014)

I agree with assisted euthanasia, better in those cases of terminal illness instead of suicide with gun or other means.


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## Harley (Jun 11, 2014)

Ina said:


> I woke up last night thinking about my boys, and the painful way they died. ER in 1993 at 27, and Young Michael at 45 last February.
> I have always believed that we humans come into this world to learn a set lessons. I think we stay until we learn the lesson, or maybe we have to stay until we teach what we were meant to teach.
> Then it dawned on me that my son's are gone because they received they're lessons. They were both good men, so I can only believe that they are happy wherever their they're journey has taken them. I know that it could all be wishful thinking on my part, but it brings me peace.
> Now I'm wondering what lessons are still out there for me, or what is it that I need to teach or pass on to someone else?
> My heart is not as heavy as it was yesterday. ray:




Ina, I can't imagine losing 2. I lost 1 and that was enough. You, have a great attitude. Like you, some days the heart is heavier than others..


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## Denise1952 (Jun 13, 2014)

I think there are also a lot of religious beliefs that may conflict with euthanasia.  I'm not religious so that doesn't enter into my thoughts on it.  I know there is a law against suicide, some countries have it I guess, I know we do.  So euthanasia is legalized suicide.  Thing is, seems no problem (since no one is stopping it) about killing unwanted babies every day.  I don't suppose enough people think that's wrong so it goes on.  

I can't tell you I wouldn't hope for a suffering person to pass away, and be free of a disease, riddled body (they actually will only give so much morphine?? gads, they should get all they need?) but I'm also thinking of the many kinds of pain people have, not just physical.  Bottom line, I guess where I stand is if it's only "your own" body you are dealing with, yes, on euthanasia, if you want to go you should be able to, your body.  I would still say no to babies being aborted (killed) though. I know, another topic.


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