# CDC announcing possible new masking guidelines due to Delta variant



## Marie5656 (Jul 27, 2021)

*Update 7/27/21 3:30 PM:* In a briefing held on Tuesday afternoon, Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, announced the agency’s updated recommendations stating that vaccinated individuals should begin wearing masks again when indoors in public settings in parts of the US with substantial to high transmission.
Additionally, the CDC reversed its recommendations on masking in K-12 schools, stating that all teachers, staff, students and visitors should wear a mask indoors regardless of vaccination status.
"In recent days I have seen new scientific data from recent outbreak investigations showing that that Delta variant behaves uniquely differently from past strains of the virus that cause Covid-19," Walensky said. "This new science is worrisome and unfortunately warrants an update to our recommendations."
*The original article was published on 7/27/21:* On Tuesday, the New York Times reported that the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is expected to announce a recommendation that vaccinated individuals should begin to wear masks again under certain circumstances.
The announcement comes just 2 months after the CDC announced that vaccinated individuals no longer need to wear masks in any situation.
The new guidance is due mainly to a recent rise in infections, driven primarily by the more transmissible Delta variant.
Over the previous 7 days, cases of COVID-19 are up 65% across the country, nearly 3 times as high as 2 weeks ago. New cases are currently averaging at around 43,700 a day.
However, the coming announcement is a surprise to many. As recently as last week, a spokesperson for the CDC said that the agency had no plans to change its guidance unless there was a significant change in the science.
In May, when the CDC announced that fully vaccinated individuals no longer needed to wear masks, they pointed to 2 studies touting the efficacy of the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 mRNA vaccines.
Now, with the Delta variant sweeping through the nation, there is more concern of clusters of infections and breakthrough cases.


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## Brookswood (Jul 27, 2021)

I hope they provide some strong numbers to support such a decision.   

One thing that bothers me through out this pandemic is the use of vague wordage such as "People who go bowling are more likely to get Covid" (I made that up for use as an example only).  My question is "How much more likely?  5% 10% 50%???"    Or somebody says "18 people in Luxembourg got Covid after being fully vaccinated."  Again, 18 out of how many vaccinated?  How severe were their symptoms?  How many hospitalized?  How many died?  How does that compare to non vaccinated people?

The press is doing a lousy job of asking these basic questions.

I spent a good amount of time sheltering at home, avoiding contact with others, wearing a mask when I went out, and i am now fully vaccinated.   I don't mind doing things to help others who through no fault of their own are vulnerable to some disease (Covid or otherwise).  OTOH,  if the reason they are vulnerable is simply a refusal to help themselves, well....that is not so good, and is another thing altogether.  

FWIW, I've pretty much given up on most information provided by the news media. Sources like Dr. Topol  and Dr. Gottlieb are far more accurate, though like everybody else, they put their pants on one leg at a time.


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## Marie5656 (Jul 27, 2021)

*@Brookswood  I agree with you. After a year and a half of all this, I think we the public need more specific information, beyond "because we said so" before we blindly accept.   *


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## WhatInThe (Jul 27, 2021)

They're finding vaccinated patients having the same viral load as the unvaccinated and admit they may be spreading the virus.

https://sfist.com/2021/07/27/cdc-co...delta-are-indistinguishable-from-unvaccinated

First it was vaccinated now immune, then it's will fair better but now the vax is doing what again?

Even with the 50-60% vax rates put that in combination with the previously infected that should bring herd immunity or darn close to it. So this delta variant is that different?


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 28, 2021)

The thing that bothered me about the new mask guidelines is the notion of only requiring them in high transmission areas.

Require them in all areas now to help prevent some areas from becoming high transmission areas!


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## chic (Jul 28, 2021)

They are going to be required in NYC., LA. San Francisco, St. Louis, Savannah, and Provincetown which already has reinstated the mandate. 

What is the motivation to get vaccinated if even the fully vaccinated are subject to the same restrictions.


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## Irwin (Jul 28, 2021)

Something I noticed but can't explain... If you go into our local King Soopers (Krogers), almost everyone is wearing a mask, but if you go into the Walgreens right across the street, almost no one is wearing a mask, including the pharmacy workers. You'd think in a drug store, people would be more aware of the dangers. Who knows.


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## Don M. (Jul 28, 2021)

chic said:


> They are going to be required in NYC., LA. San Francisco, St. Louis, Savannah, and Provincetown which already has reinstated the mandate.
> 
> What is the motivation to get vaccinated if even the fully vaccinated are subject to the same restrictions.



The "Motivation" is that the vaccinated are highly unlikely to get sick....whereas the unvaccinated are living on "borrowed time".  If wearing a mask helps reduce the chances of spreading the virus, it is worth the "nuisance" factor.  We've been vaccinated, but I would sure hate to pass this virus to others, if I was carrying the "germ".  If the "experts" say masking helps, we will comply.


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## helenbacque (Jul 29, 2021)

There are very few positive facts known in viral medicine, this virus included.  The best we have is someone's best guess.  Best advice: get your information from those who are most educated about it.


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## Brookswood (Jul 29, 2021)

chic said:


> They are going to be required in NYC., LA. San Francisco, St. Louis, Savannah, and Provincetown which already has reinstated the mandate.
> 
> What is the motivation to get vaccinated if even the fully vaccinated are subject to the same restrictions.


I think you will find that the main reason to get vaccinated is not to avoid restrictions (though that is great!) but to avoid getting very sick and possibly perishing.  Masks may be useful, but the real protection from this disease is the vaccine. Masks add an additional small layer of protection. And if one is not vaccinated for whatever reason, masks may be their only layer of protection. Not perfect for sure, but better than nothing.


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## win231 (Jul 29, 2021)

Whatever they're selling is a "Wonderful" idea.....IF you ask THEM.

My sister had a female Chocolate Lab a few years ago.  She was intact - not spayed.  She chose not to have her spayed, because it's a more-complicated surgery for female dogs than male dogs.  And also because she decided it was unnecessary because her dog is in a fenced area when outside & has no access to any other dogs, except my neutered Male Labrador.

When she took her dog to the Veterinarian, the Vet immediately suggested she have her dog spayed.
My sister asked "Why?"
The Vet said, "To prevent an unwanted litter of puppies."
My sister explained that the only dog she has access to is a neutered dog (mine).
The Vet said, "Well, it will prevent her going into heat every 8 months."
My sister said, "Why should I care if she goes into heat?  She can only have fun with a neutered male that can't impregnate her, so why put her through an unnecessary surgery?"
The Vet said, "Well....uh.....spaying her will reduce her chances of getting cancer."
My sister asked, "How?"
The Vet said, "Well, she can't get cancer of the ovaries, etc. if we remove them."
My sister said, "Well, she can get cancer anywhere; if we remove one lung, wouldn't we reduce her chances of lung cancer by 50%?"
That ended the discussion.
The real reason the Vet wanted to spay her?  The cost of the surgery - over $500.00.

Much like:  "Well....the Covid vaccine won't prevent Covid & won't prevent transmission to others.......but......uh.....your illness will be less severe."


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## JonDouglas (Jul 30, 2021)

I received multiple reports that this newest bit of masking stupidity was based on a single study done in India that was rejected by peer review.  I would almost reject this notion were it not for the fact that the CDC has been issuing recommendations based on little to no substantive studies.  There were no exhaustive studies on mRNA vaccines before giving them temporary clearance.  There was not study on the effectiveness of PCR covid tests before basing decisions on them.  There were/are few, if any, rigorous studies on antibodies, resistance and ADE.  If that wasn't enough,  Forbes:  Scientists Accuse CDC Of Misinterpreting Their Research For ‘Harmful’ School Reopening Guidelines


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## fmdog44 (Jul 30, 2021)

Not even brutal dictatorships can force behavior to 100% of it's citizenry so free societies can only suggest over and over and over.


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## Chet (Jul 30, 2021)

I think masking is over thought and over discussed resulting in confusion. As Henry David Thoreau said, "Simplify, Simplify."

1. There is a potentially fatal disease out there.
2. Protect yourself.


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## Irwin (Jul 30, 2021)

Personally, I'm protecting myself for the worst case scenario, which is that that the covid-19 delta variant is deadly and highly transmittable. In the event that scientists are wrong, I'll have only been inconvenienced a little bit by getting vaccinated and wearing a mask when I go out. But there's a lot of evidence that they're right and people are dying needlessly every day — many on their death beds wishing that they would have gotten vaccinated.


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## Brookswood (Jul 30, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> I received multiple reports that this newest bit of masking stupidity was based on a single study done in India that was rejected by peer review.


Can you please post the source(s) for these reports? Inquiring minds want to know

Meanwhile, here's some information from Israel which has an excellent system of recording and analyzing statistical information on health. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccin...9-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...id-patients-were-fully-vaccinated-beforehand/




> Nearly half of adults in Israel infected by the COVID-19 Delta variant were completely inoculated with the Pfizer vaccine before catching the new strain, prompting Israeli government officials to reimpose an indoor mask mandate, a new report revealed Friday.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 30, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Personally, I'm protecting myself for the worst case scenario, which is that that the covid-19 delta variant is deadly and highly transmittable. In the event that scientists are wrong, I'll have only been inconvenienced a little bit by getting vaccinated and wearing a mask when I go out. But there's a lot of evidence that they're right and people are dying needlessly every day — many on their death beds wishing that they would have gotten vaccinated.


i agree.  We have started wearing a mask again when we go inside even though we are vaccinated.  Why risk getting it?


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## JonDouglas (Jul 30, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> Can you please post the source(s) for these reports? Inquiring minds want to know
> 
> Meanwhile, here's some information from Israel which has an excellent system of recording and analyzing statistical information on health.
> 
> ...


I post references when I can.  Over the years, some of us do develop trusted contacts, just like the media does, whose names cannot be revealed.  Whether you believe what they tell me or not isn't really my concern as I am not trying to convince you of anything.  As for your references, I posted much the same things in other threads.


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## Brookswood (Jul 30, 2021)

Here's some


fmdog44 said:


> Not even brutal dictatorships can force behavior to 100% of it's citizenry so free societies can only suggest over and over and over.


Alas, some of our leaders don't seem to know how to suggest in a polite way.  They continue to insult people of different viewpoints in order to increase compliance.  I doesn't work, but they keep trying, and hoping for a different result. It's quite sad, IMHO.


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## Brookswood (Jul 30, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> I post references when I can.  Over the years, some of us do develop trusted contacts, just like the media does, whose names cannot be revealed.  Whether you believe what they tell me or not isn't really my concern as I am not trying to convince you of anything.  As for your references, I posted much the same things in other threads.


Then it's no more credible than middle school gossip.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 30, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> Then it's no more credible than middle school gossip.


Perhaps you should just stick with the MSM, be happy and try to lose the puerile put-downs.  Have a nice evening.


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## Brookswood (Jul 30, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Perhaps you should just stick with the MSM, be happy and try to lose the puerile put-downs.  Have a nice evening.


OK, I admit the middle school  comment was out of line. My apologies. 

But, I do think anonymous sources are of little use in convincing others of anything. 
My 2 cents.


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## win231 (Jul 30, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> i agree.  We have started wearing a mask again when we go inside even though we are vaccinated.  Why risk getting it?


Definitely!  It's very risky to rely on the vaccine.


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## helenbacque (Jul 31, 2021)

It's time to accept the fact that this virus and its variants is a moving target.  Controlling it will not be quick in coming.  We must hang on and do what we can to avoid it until science has gotten a handle on it.


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## Sunny (Jul 31, 2021)

Some of the advice we've been getting is totally unusable to the average person. How are we supposed to know what a "high transmission area" is? How much is "high?"  They give no guidance, not even naming states, they just sound like we are expected to know the statistics about transmission.


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## Aneeda72 (Jul 31, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Some of the advice we've been getting is totally unusable to the average person. How are we supposed to know what a "high transmission area" is? How much is "high?"  They give no guidance, not even naming states, they just sound like we are expected to know the statistics about transmission.


I think it is the color of the area on the map that CNN shows. Utah, the entire state,appears red so we are in high transmission area.  Other states have various colors so I guess you need to lay close attention to figure it out.  A lot of the ”red” political states are red virus states.

I suppose everyone must draw their own conclusions about the linkage between the two issues .


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## JonDouglas (Aug 1, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> OK, I admit the middle school  comment was out of line. My apologies.
> 
> But, I do think anonymous sources are of little use in convincing others of anything.
> My 2 cents.


Perhaps you don't enjoy having good sources of information. Regarding the issue you took umbrage with, my source was spot on.  This, is from yesterday's NY Post on the subject of why the CDC opted back in for masking.

It (the CDC) examined breakthrough infections in 100 Indian health-care workers and found higher viral loads in Delta infections compared with non-Delta infections, leading to increased transmission. But — some say crucially — this small study used an Indian version of the AstraZeneca vaccine which is not used in the US. It may have limited relevance to the mRNA vaccines used here.​​As was suggested earlier, just stick to the MSM, be happy and try not to criticize those of us who have and rely on other sources.  Sometimes our sources are really quite good.  Also, as I said earlier, I wasn't trying to convince your or anyone else - just sharing what I'd learned.


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## Brookswood (Aug 4, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Some of the advice we've been getting is totally unusable to the average person. How are we supposed to know what a "high transmission area" is? How much is "high?"  They give no guidance, not even naming states, they just sound like we are expected to know the statistics about transmission.


Sadly, I must agree.  The CDC continues to be so very general with their comments


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## Brookswood (Aug 4, 2021)

Here’s another source with some good news.
https://www.livescience.com/uk-coronavirus-imperial-college-vaccine-effectiveness-study.html



> People who are fully vaccinated with a two-dose coronavirus vaccine have a 50% to 60% reduced risk of being infected with the delta variant, even asymptomatically, compared with unvaccinated people, according to a new study conducted in England.


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## John cycling (Aug 5, 2021)

chic said:


> They are going to be required in NYC., LA. San Francisco, St. Louis, Savannah, and Provincetown which already has reinstated the mandate.
> What is the motivation to get vaccinated if even the fully vaccinated are subject to the same restrictions.


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## Brookswood (Aug 5, 2021)

This is an interesting article on how N95 masks work.  Needless to say it must be properly fitted.  I have some N95 masks made in Switzerland and they are by far the easiest to securely fit.  

chttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/11/fact-check-n-95-filters-not-too-large-stop-covid-19-particles/5343537002/



> The COVID-19 virus itself is indeed smaller than the N95 filter size, but the virus always travels attached to larger particles that are consistently snared by the filter. And even if the particles were smaller than the N95 filter size, the erratic motion of particles that size and the electrostatic attraction generated by the mask means they would be consistently caught as well.






> “N95 have the worst filtration efficiency for particles around 0.3,” Marr said. “If you’re smaller than that those are actually collected even better. It’s counterintuitive because masks do not work like sieving out larger particles. It’s not like pasta in a colander, and small ones don’t get through.”
> 
> N95 masks actually have that name because they are 95% efficient at stopping particles in their least efficient particle size range — in this case those around 0.3 microns.


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