# Guns in the UK



## Laurie (Sep 4, 2016)

Anyone who has lingering doubts about the general attitude to guns in the UK  should read this report, which tells how the sight of an armed policeman prompts a photo, and article in a widely read daily  and some posturing  by local party leaders!

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/new...nd-gun-policy-armed-cop-spotted-dundee-tesco/


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## Bobw235 (Sep 4, 2016)

A very interesting article and mindset over there. I wish there was no need to arm our police here in the US, but sadly, for their own protection they need weapons.


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## Ameriscot (Sep 4, 2016)

The only time I ever remember seeing armed cops in the UK is at the airports.


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## ossian (Sep 5, 2016)

This has been a long running plitical issue in Scotland. I think it is very important to place this in context for those reading this from outside Scotland. 

There is wide spread public and political opposition to arming police in Scotland. Periodically assurances are sought from the Justice Secretary that Police Scotland will not be routinely issuing arms to their staff. And those assurances are given by the Chief Constable. I personally have never seen an armed policeman in this country and doubt - given the opposition and outrage that this creates whenever there is a suspicion that the pilicy may change - that I will ever witness that.

As that article suggests, armed response staff deployed for specific reasons, are still entitled to buy food when on duty and are probably better taking their guns with them rather than leaving them in their cars where the local thugs can help themselves to them!


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## Laurie (Sep 5, 2016)

Ossian is right and I should have made this clear, my apologies for not doing so.

Scotland has an entirely separate police force.

My title should have been "Guns in Scotland".  Armed police  are not uncommon in London and they shoot unarmed people almost as often as US cops do.

RIP Jean Charles de Menezes.


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 5, 2016)

The US is going back to the days of the Wild West with everybody seeming to seek arms. A local gun shop is putting on a huge addition to accommodate the flood of new customers...


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## Wayne (May 30, 2017)

Ralphy1 said:


> The US is going back to the days of the Wild West with everybody seeming to seek arms. A local gun shop is putting on a huge addition to accommodate the flood of new customers...



And what would that be sir? referring to the wild west


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## Capt Lightning (May 31, 2017)

As I recall (and I don't know if things have changed), "police" in N.Ireland all carried guns.  They did not convey the image of a civilian police force, but more one of being armed paramilitary thugs.


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## Laurie (May 31, 2017)

Like tens of thousands of other loyal OK citizens in Northern Ireland, I was very grateful for the safety and  protection of those "armed paramilitary thugs", many of whom paid the ultimate price for protecting me.


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## Wintermint (May 31, 2017)

When this story broke in 2016 I actually wrote to my Member of Parliament expressing concern. Slightly to my surprise I received a reply a few weeks later.

His response was that it was a trial - using police officers trained to use guns so that their training was put to use. He added that there were no plans to introduce the practice in England (the policy was Scottish only). He also said he believed the policy would be reversed at some point.

Events have moved on it seems, though there seems to be no plan to routinely arm police following the Manchester bombing.


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## Don M. (May 31, 2017)

Wayne said:


> And what would that be sir? referring to the wild west



The "Wild West" is largely a creation of Hollywood.  In reality, while most of the people in the West, during the 1800's carried a weapon to defend themselves while in the countryside, most towns had very restrictive laws regarding the carrying of weapons while in town.  Gunfights and killings were a rarity in the more populated areas.  In fact, the gun carry laws of 100+ years ago, were far more restrictive than today.  While "shoot outs" in the street make for an entertaining movie, they were largely unheard of in the "Cowboy" days.  Even when out of town, there were very few confrontations, as most knew that their potential "victim" was probably armed, and might just come out the victor in any confrontation.


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## Capt Lightning (May 31, 2017)

Laurie said:


> Like tens of thousands of other loyal OK citizens in Northern Ireland, I was very grateful for the safety and  protection of those "armed paramilitary thugs", many of whom paid the ultimate price for protecting me.



I spent long enough in N.Ireland to never want to see it  or its "police" force again.


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## Laurie (Jun 1, 2017)

Capt Lightning said:


> I spent long enough in N.Ireland to never want to see it  or its "police" force again.



I served alongside them them and was happy yo support them and have them support me.

The British government threw them to the wolves, but I won't.


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## Capt Lightning (Jun 1, 2017)

Laurie, please don't get me wrong.  I, like you, would regard myself as a loyal UK citizen, but the whole culture of N.Ireland in the 60s & 70s was pretty bad.  They may have been in a tough spot, but I found many of the police to be arrogant, rude and intimidating.  Not exactly the way to gain respect from people who would normally have supported them.  But, you're right.  Instead of addressing their shortcomings, the government deserted them.  

Maybe things have changed in the 40 odd years since I studied and worked at Queens university, but the entrenched views, the opposition to contraception, abortion etc.. was rapidly lagging behind the rest of the UK and I'm not convinced that much progress has been made.   They did have one good thing going for them - the sense of humour.  Like when a plane landed at Belfast airport and the pilot reminded passengers to put their watches back 50 years.  Many a true word was spoken in jest.


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## Knight (Jun 1, 2017)

As an outsider to the policies and practices that the Scots are accustomed to I read the article maybe a little differantly than others.

I read that Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie was opposed to seeing armed police in public. I read where he recognized the fact that terrorism is increasing. 

What takes place in other countries is not the issue, it's about seeing police in Scotland carrying a gun in public. 
When I read the response by Superintendent Kirk Kinnell, head of armed policing for Police Scotland I thought it was was excellent.

“There is no routine arming of police officers in Scotland; a small number of officers – currently fewer than two per cent of our 17,234 officers – are available 24 hours a day, seven days a week to keep people safe.
“They are armed, so that the other 98% of them do not need to be. Officers volunteer for this specialist role so that all communities have the same level of access to this specialist support no matter where and when the need.”

Times change but from the looks of things spotting one police officer with a gun & snapping a picture is the worst that takes place in Scotland, the residents there should relax & be very proud.  

The article was from 2016 I wonder if anything has changed since then.


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## Elsie (Jun 1, 2017)

Are all unarmed police these days expected to be violent attack proof, knife attack proof, bullet proof, able to physically stop criminals from causing public harm, even death, as long as those criminals see the policepersons' uniforms, plus that they are carrying head cracking batons, and so change their minds out of fear?

I doubt it. 

Like it or not, police NEED to carry guns to not only have a better chance of saving public persons' lives, but their own these days. IMHO.


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## LinuxCat (Jun 1, 2017)

I would like to point out something here that has been overlooked.
It was never an accepted custom in Scotland for the Police to be armed routinely. Police Scotland took it upon themselves to do so without Public consultation or consent.
I would also point out that Police Scotland itself was forced upon the Scots by the S.N.P. again without consultation as the Scottish government knew full well the public would have said NO!

Both situations are examples of power-abuse and overbearing political arrogance .


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## Laurie (Jun 2, 2017)

"Are all unarmed police these days expected to be violent attack proof"

Yes, as we saw at Westminster last month.


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## RadishRose (Jun 4, 2017)

Elsie said:


> Are all unarmed police these days expected to be violent attack proof, knife attack proof, bullet proof, able to physically stop criminals from causing public harm, even death, as long as those criminals see the policepersons' uniforms, plus that they are carrying head cracking batons, and so change their minds out of fear?
> 
> I doubt it.
> 
> Like it or not, police NEED to carry guns to not only have a better chance of saving public persons' lives, but their own these days. IMHO.



Agree. Yesterday's London Bridge attack just proves how vulnerable Britain appears to radical jihadists.


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## Bee (Jun 4, 2017)

RadishRose said:


> Agree. Yesterday's London Bridge attack just proves how vulnerable Britain appears to radical jihadists.




....and if you read the news correctly you will know that the three attackers were shot dead by the police with in 8 minutes of receiving the report.


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## Laurie (Jun 4, 2017)

Words out of my mouth, Bee.

All dead  in 8 minutes is good even by tough American standards!

Well done the Met.


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## RadishRose (Jun 4, 2017)

It was very well done! They had guns, was my point. When they are not armed they_ appear _vulnerable.


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## Knight (Jun 4, 2017)

Times change & the need to adapt to change is obvious. 

Didn't take the American Indians using arrows against bullets to figure out that didn't work well for them.


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## WhatInThe (Jun 4, 2017)

Bee said:


> ....and if you read the news correctly you will know that the three attackers were shot dead by the police with in 8 minutes of receiving the report.



It is a quick time but "if" just one armed police officer on the bridge had damaged their vehicle let alone shot an attacker that could've prevented the pub attack all together. It's a what "if" scenario so we'll never know but sometimes just the smallest glitch in the best laid plans can throw it off. The problem with terrorists as compared to criminals they plan not to escape, they know and are prepared to die in any dealings with the police.

Still an impressive time.


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## Bee (Jun 4, 2017)

The members of the public at the scene couldn't praise the security or police high enough for their response time and the way it was all handled.

Don't forget this Britain we are talking about and not America and we are quite satisfied with the way things are done here.


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## Bee (Jun 4, 2017)

The publics reaction...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40151788


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## Elsie (Jun 4, 2017)

Brings to mind how clinically depressed people suddenly are so convincingly happy, out of their depression--because they have decided to free themselves of it by committing suicide.

Because it is hideously apparent that those who believe that by murdering non believing Sharia/Ou'ran law persons this will open the doors out of their miserable Sharia following lives to 'heaven'?, I can see why so many of them turn to obliterating who they consider infidels thinking to free themselves  But I'm guessing that there are a number murderers among them that aren't so convinced.


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## Shalimar (Jun 4, 2017)

I think it is important to remember that Britain is  no stranger to attacks. Long before this type of extremist violence, there were IRA bombings, and the Blitz in WW2. The Brits are a calm and stalwart people who will never be intimidated by terrorists.

Cultural differences between countries inevitably exist, one size/solution does not fit all. It is my hope that should Canada unfortunately face such horror, we may behave with half as much courage as the Brits. Salut, mes amis, vous etes formidable!!


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## Manatee (Jun 4, 2017)

I am reminded of years ago I worked with a man who had joined the RAF in 1939.  When he was posted to sentry duty he was handed a wooden pole that was sharpened on one end. "Whats this" he asked?  He was told "it is a pike, it is the only weapon we have to give you".  Legal restrictions had starved the arms factories out of business and there was no one to supply the forces.


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## Don M. (Jun 4, 2017)

Slightly off topic...But somewhat related.....I just finished watching Ariana Grande's "Tribute" concert broadcast live on Freeform TV.  This is just days after the Manchester terrorist attack, and I was a bit amazed at the British audience, and their reaction.  There was NO sadness in the audience...instead, these people were joyous, and fully engrossed with the performances of the many celebrities who appeared on stage.  It was a wonderful show, and sent a message to these warped terrorists...that being, that no matter what atrocities they commit, they Will Not succeed in breaking the spirits of those who live in Freedom.


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## Bee (Jun 4, 2017)

Thankyou Don for your post.........the British are known for being stoical in the face of adversity and that is the best way to be no matter who the terroists are.


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## Laurie (Jun 5, 2017)

There is already outrage because an innocent bystander was slightly wounded (by a cop) and the bleeding hearts are already screaming "Overkill"!


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## beneDictus (Jun 5, 2017)

Wayne said:


> And what would that be sir? referring to the wild west


  Shoot fust...and ask questions latuh, suh...!!


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## Shalimar (Jun 5, 2017)

I am reminded of an old photograph I saw years ago, depicting London during the Blitz. Standing amongst the rubble of bombed out buildings, was a woman in her seventies. She had a large bandage over one eye, however, it was not her injury which 

struck me, but rather her proud carriage, and indomitable courage.  Through the decades, this lady has served to represent the face of tenacity and strength  to me. Often, when feeling overwhelmed, I have asked myself what would she have done to 

deal with the situation? Somehow, I have found the capacity to carry on. She is my hero. Also, she will always represent the face of Britain, and my ancestors. I hope, in some fashion, I can live up to their legacy.


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## HiDesertHal (Jun 5, 2017)

As Inspector Callahan said in a Dirty Harry film, after his boss proudly stated that he never had to use his sidearm:

"There's nothing wrong with shooting, Lieutenant...as long as the right people get shot!"

HiDesertHal


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## WhatInThe (Jun 5, 2017)

A London police officer engaged the terrorist with his baton. He wound up injured/in the hospital. A brave act and may have limited the carnage simply by engaging the terrorists.

 But unfortunately numbers and/or blades beat one baton. 

Speedy recovery and kudos to the officer

http://abcnews.go.com/International...faced-suspects-baton-police/story?id=47825200


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## HiDesertHal (Jun 5, 2017)

What the UK really needs today is a bulldog-like PM like Winston Churchill!

HDH


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## Don M. (Jun 5, 2017)

The British Prime Minister, Theresa May, actually used the words "Islamic Terrorists" in a speech yesterday.  That's something that the "Politically Correct", including Obama, have seemed unable to do.  I would imagine that a lot of people in the UK are getting fed up with these terrorists, and that will probably be reflected in the the results of their upcoming elections.


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## Laurie (Jun 5, 2017)

HiDesertHal said:


> What the UK really needs today is a bulldog-like PM like Winston Churchill!
> 
> HDH



I'm afraid Churchill was never very popular with the British people, outside the war years.  

Don't forget that as soon as the war was over we threw him out.  We remembered what he was like as a peacetime leader.  There were areas of Scotland and Wales where he could not go!


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