# What good is it having a hand gun at the ready to protect yourself and your family, Fla. mother shot



## Warrigal (Mar 9, 2016)

... if it becomes the means by which you and/or your family come to harm?

This woman got off lightly. She could have been killed at the wheel and her truck could have been the cause of a major accident in which her four year old and others could also have been killed.

As it was, she was only shot in the back by her infant son.
I can't believe that I just used the word 'only' in this context.



> A 31-year-old Florida woman is in stable condition less than a day after getting accidentally shot in the back by her 4-year-old son while she was driving, PEOPLE confirms.
> 
> According to a statement from investigators in Florida's Putnam County, the non-fatal shooting occurred on Tuesday afternoon as Jamie Gilt was driving down a highway.
> 
> ...


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## fureverywhere (Mar 9, 2016)

And she's ****** because FLA child services at least Osceola county doesn't fool around. But my theory is that for some people it's a security blanket. If I have my gun "they" can't get me. Even if it's never used in a lifetime except at the gun range, having it is enough.

Ditto for my baby boy. Nobody even armed would try to break into our house. I can walk the streets any hour and I'm safe with him. In the wrong hands he could disembowel a human in one bite. But he is well trained and he is mine. I think gun owners feel the same way. I just prefer protection that is warm and furry.


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## Warrigal (Mar 9, 2016)

Sorry Fur, but I have the same reservations about dangerous dogs as I do about firearms. Not worth the risk IMO.

I walk the mean streets unprotected and unafraid and most of the time our home is unlocked.
Anyone can just walk in by going round to the back door.
The whole family lives the same way.


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## fureverywhere (Mar 9, 2016)

See you live in Sydney, I live next to Newark, NJ USA...there is no comparison. A story I've told before. One day a civil service group asked the city. Just for one day no gun violence. Just 24 hours no homicides...c'mon we can do this. The first report was 9am and the second by noon. Both gun related...All but two houses on our block have been broken into in the last ten years. We are one of the two. Different environment in big city Americka.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 9, 2016)

No shortage of careless foolish people in this world, whether they leave their 4 year old "infant" in a hot car in summer to bake to death, in a kiddie pool in the yard to drown, by an unsecured window in a 10 story apartment building to fall to his death, around bottles of dangerous prescription medications, or in the presence of a loaded gun with no safety lock, etc.

Fur, your dog won't get far disemboweling anyone who is armed with any kind of an effective weapon, gun, knife, hammer, etc.  Warrigal, I didn't think there were any 'mean' streets in Australia.


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## Warrigal (Mar 9, 2016)

Yes, I live in Sydney, population 4.293 million (in 2012 and growing all the time).
 I live in a local area called Bankstown which is anything but crime free.

 If you follow this link you will see that perception of criminality is higher than the statistics actually reveal.

http://www.bankstown.nsw.gov.au/index.aspx?NID=697

 We even have armed robberies but in the latest one the weapon was a baseball bat, not a high powered gun.

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/l...vdi5hdSUyRm1lZGlhJTJGNTMxMDIuaHRtbCZhbGw9MQ==



> *Police investigate armed robbery - Sydney's west*
> 
> _Thursday, 10 March 2016 02:03:40 AM_
> Police are appealing for witnesses following an armed robbery in Sydney’s west last night.
> ...


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## fureverywhere (Mar 9, 2016)

I dunno, if you were break into a house and you saw...






Well, after you soiled yourself, dropped the gun. and flagged down the closest police car for protection...


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 9, 2016)

No Fur, that's not the reality, I wouldn't soil my pants, drop my gun or flag down a cop for protection, I unload some lead till he was dead, which would be seconds.


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## tnthomas (Mar 9, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> I dunno, if you were break into a house and you saw...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




LOL, I just soiled myself from taking a gander at Mr. Meat Grinder's sweet smiling mug.


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## fureverywhere (Mar 9, 2016)

That's it exactly, one flat screen TV is not worth what it would take to sew you up, even if you disabled him first shot. Really I love my boy more than life itself...but he does have those choppers.


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## Butterfly (Mar 9, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> No Fur, that's not the reality, I wouldn't soil my pants, drop my gun or flag down a cop for protection, I unload some lead till he was dead, which would be seconds.



A police officer I know once told me that if bad guys are just looking for a house to rob, a dog will put them off and they will go elsewhere because it's easier.  But if they want to get into YOUR house for some particular reason, they'll just shoot the dog and proceed.  Lead travels even faster than a pissed off pit bull.


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## Butterfly (Mar 9, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> ... if it becomes the means by which you and/or your family come to harm?
> 
> This woman got off lightly. She could have been killed at the wheel and her truck could have been the cause of a major accident in which her four year old and others could also have been killed.
> 
> ...



Well, I don't think it was exactly the gun's fault here.  The fault lies with the irresponsible mother who left a loaded weapon where her child could get to it.


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## fureverywhere (Mar 9, 2016)

Could be certainly, but hubby's friend a lifetime con...no that ******* dog is crazy man no...the same pup sighing and passing wind under our blankets all night. This gentleman is afraid of him face to face.


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## Warrigal (Mar 9, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> I dunno, if you were break into a house and you saw...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most dog attacks over here happen to children and old people. The children are often in the family home or yard, or at a relatives house and the old people are often attacked while walking down the street past the house where some dog is not properly secured behind a high fence. 

Even so, they are fairly uncommon. Certainly not common enough to strap a gun to your hip so that you can shoot down any stray dog in your path.


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## Warrigal (Mar 9, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> That's it exactly, one flat screen TV is not worth what it would take to sew you up, even if you disabled him first shot. Really I love my boy more than life itself...but he does have those choppers.



If someone breaks into my house and makes off with a TV set then so be it. We have house and contents insurance for just such an eventuality but in 50 years of living in this house I've only ever had to claim for fire damage. I'm a bit careless when cooking :grin:

I like dogs but I would give you and your boy a very wide birth.
What happens when the census taker calls or someone want to read your electricity or water meter?
Do you carry insurance in case the dog attacks someone legitimately on your property?


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## fureverywhere (Mar 9, 2016)

Yeah, my man with family...never.


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## Warrigal (Mar 9, 2016)

That's an admission that the dog is dangerous.
You love him but do you ever fear that one day he may turn on you?


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## fureverywhere (Mar 9, 2016)

Here if he's protecting his property and he's good.


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## Warrigal (Mar 9, 2016)

Back to the OP.

The four year old had been introduced to shooting.



> *Pro-gun US woman shot in back by 4yo son after she boasted about his marksmanship*
> 
> Updated      about 3 hours agoThu 10 Mar 2016, 12:02pm
> 
> ...



A four year old boy may understand that pulling a trigger makes a gun shoot bullets but he is much too young to understand that bullets kill.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 9, 2016)

Butterfly said:


> Well, I don't think it was exactly the gun's fault here.  The fault lies with the irresponsible mother who left a loaded weapon where her child could get to it.



Exactly.


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## Warrigal (Mar 9, 2016)

Jamie Gilt for gun sense??
Irony anyone?



> Jamie Gilt is a woman who lives in Jacksonville, Florida, and operated a Facebook page called Jamie Gilt for Gun Sense on which she posted liberal-baiting pro-gun memes. (The page is no longer available to the public.) At the top of this post, you can see a photo of Gilt from her Facebook gun page; on her personal Facebook page, there is a picture of Gilt wearing the same shirt, with a child on her lap, holding what appears to be the same gun.
> 
> Yesterday, a woman named Jamie Gilt—and there's only one Jamie Gilt listed in public records as a resident of Florida—was hospitalized after telling police that her 4-year-old son had shot her in the back while she was driving. From a Jacksonville NBC affiliate:
> Jamie Gilt, 31, of Jacksonville, was found shot in the driver's seat of a truck near where State Road 20 and Rowland Avenue meet about 3 p.m. by a deputy stopping to check on the vehicle, which was partially in the roadway, according to the Putnam County Sheriff's Office.
> ...


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## 911 (Mar 10, 2016)

Bring on the dogs! Only problem is that it is noisy and the neighbors will be dialing 9-1-1 before the clip is empty.


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## Warrigal (Mar 10, 2016)

I didn't know that fully automatic hand guns were designed for killing dogs.
What do you use on cats and hamsters?


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## Susie (Mar 10, 2016)

Negativism about guns and gun laws in the U.S. again rearing its ugly head?
'Mean' streets in Australia?
Do you mean the ones I wouldn't walk in day or night, with or without dog or gun?


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## Warrigal (Mar 10, 2016)

Come on Susie. You've been in Australia long enough to recognise irony.

 I mean the streets in my own neighbourhood, which has its share of criminals.
 Even so, I've never needed a gun or an armed escort for my safety.

By the way, I've given up expecting gun laws in America to change any time soon.
What is needed is a change in thinking, in the perception that every home is under threat from homicidal maniacs.
Also a realisation that for every person saved by being armed, there are many more harmed by guns kept in the home and car.


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## Susie (Mar 11, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Come on Susie. You've been in Australia long enough to recognise irony.
> 
> I mean the streets in my own neighbourhood, which has its share of criminals.
> Even so, I've never needed a gun or an armed escort for my safety.
> ...


Yes, irony?
 Australia is considered one of the safest countries in the world.
Take my neighborhood: All doors and windows are tightly locked; shutters are down sometimes day and night; electronic protection everywhere!
By contrast in '72 doors could be left open, walking in the evening was possible.
The news media is reporting increased aggravated burglary.
Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Australia.
The irony-if there is so much crime, why is it considered safe to live here?


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## Warrigal (Mar 11, 2016)

Our doors are still left open, but usually due to forgetfulness in the case of the front door.
I came home this week to find the front door wide open behind the unlocked wire screen door.
It is usually in that state when we are at home but we mostly shut it when we go out.



> The irony-if there is so much crime, why is it considered safe to live here?



My answer is that crime does not always mean danger to the person.
Burglary and car theft do not usually result in injury to the victim, much less their death.

From your link



> *Crime in Australia* is combated by the Australian police and other agencies.
> The number of offenders proceeded against by police during 2013-2014 increased by 4%.[SUP][1][/SUP]
> In 2013-2014 the offender rate, which is the number of offenders in the population of Australia, increased by 2%. The number of Youth offenders fell by 4%.[SUP][1][/SUP]
> *
> ...


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## fureverywhere (Mar 11, 2016)

Scary as heck, but a well trained pup against intruders...best security system you need. They are mellow with family and sound a very convincing alarm with strangers...


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## BlunderWoman (Mar 12, 2016)

*Pro-gun Florida mom accidentally shot by 4-year-old son*

[h=1]Pro-gun Florida mom accidentally shot by 4-year-old son after leaving loaded weapon in car, bragging about how tot gets 'gets jacked up' for target practice[/h]http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pro-gun-florida-mom-shot-4-year-old-son-article-1.2558180

She had a facebook page with gun 'sense' in the title. I don't think that was too darn sensible on her part.


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## Butterfly (Mar 12, 2016)

BlunderWoman said:


> *Pro-gun Florida mom accidentally shot by 4-year-old son after leaving loaded weapon in car, bragging about how tot gets 'gets jacked up' for target practice*
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pro-gun-florida-mom-shot-4-year-old-son-article-1.2558180
> 
> She had a facebook page with gun 'sense' in the title. I don't think that was too darn sensible on her part.



It's incredibly stupid.  I was taught to use and respect guns at a young age -- but 4 years old is WAY too young in my opinion.  The only thing a 4 year old should be taught about guns is that guns are NOT toys and never to touch them.  And anyone with any common sense at all would NEVER leave a loaded weapon where a 4 year old could get to it.  Period.


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## oakapple (Mar 13, 2016)

Oh the irony of that  situation ( a gun sense liberal baiting page) :bigwink:


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 13, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Come on Susie. You've been in Australia long enough to recognise irony.
> 
> I mean the streets in my own neighbourhood, which has its share of criminals.
> Even so, I've never needed a gun or an armed escort for my safety.
> ...



I've never "needed" a gun or an armed escort for my safety either Warrigal, and I've lived in a couple of different states in America, including the very largely populated city of NY.  I don't know if there's a city in Australia that could compare.

I don't know why you care so much about expecting change in American gun laws.  I am an American, born and raised, and I hope the gun laws don't change, they're already more restrictive than need be for the average law-abiding responsible American citizen who are the only ones affected by these gun control laws.  The criminals do not abide by the laws, don't know how many times that can be said and ignored by those with an anti-gun agenda.

That perception is your own biased anti-gun opinion, many people in the US choose to have a gun in their homes for various reasons, they're collectors, hunters, or just want to own one for protection of themselves and family (if ever needed), or just for fun target practice, etc. 

 We in no way are under the perception that our home is under threat of homicidal maniacs, that's ridiculous and typical of those who are mesmerized by the dramatic exaggerated headlines of the news sources they favor, the anti-gun news sources of choice.

  However, I've had a gun in my home ready if needed, and in my 40+ years of owning it and living in this great country of ours, I have never had the need to use it for self-defense, and I expect to go to my grave with never having to use any of our guns for that purpose.  But...it's better to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it.

I have a very hard time believing your allegation that for every person saved by being armed, there are more harmed by guns.  Please provide some realistic statistics to prove that one.











Also, how can street crime in Australia even be compared with that of the US, considering the differences in population.

Australia, people per sq. km in the years 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

...compared to USA for those same years.


Australia3333


United States34343535

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.POP.DNST






Susie said:


> Yes, irony?
> Australia is considered one of the safest countries in the world.
> Take my neighborhood: All doors and windows are tightly locked; shutters are down sometimes day and night; electronic protection everywhere!
> By contrast in '72 doors could be left open, walking in the evening was possible.
> ...



Thank you Susie for your honest input here, much appreciated.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 13, 2016)

Butterfly said:


> It's incredibly stupid.  I was taught to use and respect guns at a young age -- but 4 years old is WAY too young in my opinion.  The only thing a 4 year old should be taught about guns is that guns are NOT toys and never to touch them.  And anyone with any common sense at all would NEVER leave a loaded weapon where a 4 year old could get to it.  Period.



Completely agree, I'm happy that she was the only victim in that situation, serves her right IMO.


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## Warrigal (Mar 13, 2016)

SeaBreeze, the video clip contains these claims



Here is the response to these statements published on January 21, 2013



> In the wake of the Port Arthur massacre and Monash University shootings, the conservative government of John Howard introduced a series of gun laws. These restricted who could own guns and the type of guns they could own.
> 
> While the impact of the Australian gun laws is still debated, there have been large decreases in the number of firearm suicides and the number of firearm homicides in Australia. Homicide rates in Australia are only 1.2 per 100,000 people, with less than 15% of these resulting from firearms.
> 
> ...



More recently, former PM John Howard has challenged the idea that Australian gun laws are either ineffective or counterproductive



> *Los Angeles:* Former Australian prime minister John Howard has re-entered the US gun debate, declaring it is "incontestable" gun-related homicides fell significantly after he introduced strict laws following the Port Arthur massacre. Speaking on CBS' _Sunday Morning_ TV news program, Mr Howard said he was compelled to act after 35 people were gunned down at the Tasmanian historical site in 1996.
> 
> "It is incontestable that gun-related homicides have fallen quite significantly in Australia, incontestable," Mr Howard said. "I mean, if you had 13 mass shootings before Port Arthur and you had none since, isn't that evidence?
> ​
> ...


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## Warrigal (Mar 13, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:
			
		

> I have a very hard time believing your allegation that for every person saved by being armed, there are more harmed by guns.  Please provide some realistic statistics to prove that one.



Attempting to respond to your challenge I have found this information



> The rhetoric that credits guns with reducing violence draws largely on a 1995 analysis titled ‘Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun’ by Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University. Kleck estimated at 2.2 to 2.5 million the occasions when a gun might have been used in self-defence. That 2.5 million is the figure most often quoted by the National Rifle Association. It’s the data that forms the scientific bedrock for VCDL, and organisations like it, to claim that guns save lives.
> 
> But are its data and conclusions reliable?
> 
> ...



The 2.2 - 2.5 million lives saved is used to produce this argument but can the number be supported by other studies?



> Compared to about 35,000 gun deaths every year, 2.5 million  good Americans use guns to protect themselves, their families, and their livelihoods - there are 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun - five lives are protected per minute - and, of those 2.5 million    protective uses of guns, about 1/2 million are believed to have saved lives.    [2]



I have seen a claim that for every life saved, 13 are lost, but I doubt that this figure can be verified either.


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## Warrigal (Mar 13, 2016)

I'll pay this one. One or more lives were saved on this occasion.



> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/03/1...shoots-axe-wielding-attacker-at-7-eleven.html
> 
> A customer at a 7-Eleven store outside Seattle shot and killed a masked man who attacked a clerk with an ax early Sunday.
> 
> ...


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## Butterfly (Mar 15, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> I've never "needed" a gun or an armed escort for my safety either Warrigal, and I've lived in a couple of different states in America, including the very largely populated city of NY.  I don't know if there's a city in Australia that could compare.
> 
> I don't know why you care so much about expecting change in American gun laws.  I am an American, born and raised, and I hope the gun laws don't change, they're already more restrictive than need be for the average law-abiding responsible American citizen who are the only ones affected by these gun control laws.  The criminals do not abide by the laws, don't know how many times that can be said and ignored by those with an anti-gun agenda.
> 
> ...




SB, I agree with everything you said above.  Well said!

There  seems to be a rampant misconception that if guns were banned in America  all the bad guys would comply and give up their guns.  That's ridiculous  -- the effect would be that the general population, many of whom would  surrender their arms, would be more at the mercy of said bad guys than  they are now.  And to think that illegal gun runners would quit bringing  in more guns if they were banned is equally ridiculous.  We all know how well the banning of street drugs has worked to stop illegal drug traffic.

As to gun suicides -- people who are bent on committing suicide will find a way to do so, banned guns or not.  

I have weapons, and I will keep them, banned or not.


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## oohjarwatsit (Mar 15, 2016)

Thank goodness guns for protection are illegal in the UK.


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