# Should We Prepare for a Nuclear Conflict?



## Been There (Oct 3, 2022)

As it stands now, it seems that the U.S. is being blamed for wrecking Nord Stream II. At first, Washington wanted to blame Russia for destroying their own pipeline, but they couldn't sell that because it made no sense. Moving forward, Russia has been blamed for kidnapping Ukraine's nuclear power czar. 

What's next?


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## NorthernLight (Oct 3, 2022)

Prepare?


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## David777 (Oct 3, 2022)

NO


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## Packerjohn (Oct 3, 2022)

We went through all that prepartion crap in the 50s.  Remember, the cold war with those mean looking Soviets pictured on Life Magazine.  People were building bomb shelters in order to survive.  Norad built a whole line of radar stations up in Northern Canada which was suppose to tell us when the Soviet missiles are coming over.

Nothing really happened.  It was the "Red Scare."  There was even a Hollywood film called, "The Russians are Coming, The Russians Are Coming."  The story was that their submarine had some sort of problem so the Russians had to land at some little town in New England.  Of course, the Yanks got pretty excited.  Silly film really!  About 15 years ago, my brother who is an insulator, was pretty busy flying from radar station to radar station up there and taking the asbestos out of the walls.

No, I am not preparing for Putin's bombs.  Que Sera, Sera!  Once is enough!  Been there, done that and don't want to do it anymore.


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## Pappy (Oct 3, 2022)

No, but how does one prepare? If your anywhere near a nuclear explosion, better make peace with whatever you believe in. You can always hid under your desk. Our school thought that was the best way.


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## Gaer (Oct 3, 2022)

No, not quite yet.


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## LadyEmeraude (Oct 3, 2022)

NO.


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## Been There (Oct 3, 2022)

Pappy said:


> No, but how does one prepare? If your anywhere near a nuclear explosion, better make peace with whatever you believe in. You can always hid under your desk. Our school thought that was the best way.


There are other ways to prepare besides physically preparing. In 1992, the U.S. performed their last known underground nuclear test in Nevada. Or, at least it is the last known test to me. While working at the Pentagon years later, we were able to view a video of that test. The person that presented the program, which included this video, asked us to imagine ourselves standing alongside the bomb as it was detonated. It was kind of difficult to do, trying to imagine yourself being vaporized in a flash of light. One fellow in the group said, "Now that's a real nuclear test." 

Think of it this way, back in 1945 when the U.S. dropped the A-Bomb on Hiroshima, it was supposedly equal to 15,000 tons of TNT. Today, the the mostly same type of nuclear bomb is about 100 Kiloton, which is equal to 100,000 pounds of TNT. If that were to happen today, the 2 bombs that were dropped on Japan would pretty much take the island off the map.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 3, 2022)

It's a good idea to get some battery powered lights and radios and plenty of batteries. Good idea to have a propane stove and cylinders on hand, too. And food shortages should be expected. Depending on how far you are from a nuke hit, you might need a portable water filtering system.

Why not prepare?


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## Murrmurr (Oct 3, 2022)

Pappy said:


> No, but how does one prepare?


There's a ton of information online. The easiest way to get info is YouTube videos. There's a bunch of good ones there. There's some extreme ones, too, but you obviously have the where-with-all to sort those out.


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## Pepper (Oct 3, 2022)

Living in NYC I'll say my goodbyes now.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 3, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Living in NYC I'll say my goodbyes now.


Easiest Prep Plan in the world - just say bye.   

Calif has a ton of military targets. And some say they *can see Russia from here*....a ways north of here, anyway.


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## Bella (Oct 3, 2022)

There's only one way to prepare for annihilation. A fully stocked bar.


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## IKE (Oct 3, 2022)

Pappy said:


> No, but how does one prepare? If your anywhere near a nuclear explosion, better make peace with whatever you believe in. You can always hid under your desk. Our school thought that was the best way.



Pappy I also remember back in the 60's being taught in school to get under our desks during the Cuban missile crisis......we know now that it wouldn't have done any good back then any more than it would today.

Let's all just hope that it never happens.


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## Timewise 60+ (Oct 3, 2022)

If you have really study this...if an all-out war breaks out 100's of nukes will hit all over the world.  Not just a few.  Even if you, somehow survive the initial attacks, in the long run you will die from exposure to radiation or from lack of food and water.  The main reason the world has not went though this is that the guys pushing the buttons, cannot be assured of their own survival.   And that is still the way it is.... if Putin shoots, he will not survive and he knows it...unless he is really, really, crazy he won't start a war with the Western Nations..


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## ElCastor (Oct 3, 2022)

Been There said:


> As it stands now, it seems that the U.S. is being blamed for wrecking Nord Stream II. At first, Washington wanted to blame Russia for destroying their own pipeline, but they couldn't sell that because it made no sense. Moving forward, Russia has been blamed for kidnapping Ukraine's nuclear power czar.


Maybe it does make sense, perfect sense.  Put the screws to Europe and blame it on the US, thereby further punishing Europe while at the same time weakening the bond between the US and its European partners.


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## Lawrence (Oct 3, 2022)

I suppose I can say I have a plan if a nuclear missile hits near me. I am afraid of a nuclear conflict because have been hardened to it when I was in the military. Nuclear warfare will be bad but, in my opinion, not as bad as we have been led to believe. The media, the movie industries, have hyped it up so much that the people are terrified. If it happens to me, I have my camping trailer and can drive upwind of the fallout for two days before returning to my home. If I stay home, I will shut all my windows and doors then stay two days in my house before going outside. The nuclear fallout should have fallen to the ground by that time. If I get radiation poisoning, I will treat it like as if I have caught the flu. Chicken, soups, broths, lots of water, lots of rest. Then hope and pray for the best.


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## ronaldj (Oct 3, 2022)

long ago we were taught to .,..bend over grab your ankle and kiss you butt goodbye
or
drop, roll and then kiss your butt goodbye


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## Murrmurr (Oct 3, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> If you have really study this..*.if an all-out war breaks out 100's of nukes will hit all over the world. * Not just a few.  Even if you, somehow survive the initial attacks, in the long run you will die from exposure to radiation or from lack of food and water.  The main reason the world has not went though this is that the guys pushing the buttons, cannot be assured of their own survival.   And that is still the way it is.... if Putin shoots, he will not survive and he knows it...unless he is really, really, crazy he won't start a war with the Western Nations..


You must have read that study before the development of surface-to-air preemptive missiles....missiles that destroy, detonate, or redirect other missiles.


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## Gary O' (Oct 3, 2022)

Should We Prepare for a Nuclear Conflict?​
I recommend yoga
Centering on extreme flexibility  
Maybe a bit of lipstick


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2022)

Been There said:


> There are other ways to prepare besides physically preparing. In 1992, the U.S. performed their last known underground nuclear test in Nevada. Or, at least it is the last known test to me. While working at the Pentagon years later, we were able to view a video of that test. The person that presented the program, which included this video, asked us to imagine ourselves standing alongside the bomb as it was detonated. It was kind of difficult to do, trying to imagine yourself being vaporized in a flash of light. One fellow in the group said, "Now that's a real nuclear test."
> 
> Think of it this way, back in 1941 when the U.S. dropped the A-Bomb on Hiroshima, it was supposedly equal to 15,000 tons of TNT. Today, the the mostly same type of nuclear bomb is about 100 Kiloton, which is equal to 100,000 pounds of TNT. If that were to happen today, the 2 bombs that were dropped on Japan would pretty much take the island off the map.


Oops.  The Hiroshima bomb was dropped in August 1945 , not in 1941. 
December 1941 was when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.


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## Mitch86 (Oct 3, 2022)

Dying from a nuke is fast and painless.  Dying from old age is a slow painful path.  Personally, I would not mind going from a nuke explosion.  It's far better than the alternatives.


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## Lewkat (Oct 3, 2022)

Mitch86 said:


> Dying from a nuke is fast and painless.  Dying from old age is a slow painful path.  Personally, I would not mind going from a nuke explosion.  It's far better than the alternatives.


Are you always this much fun, Mitch?


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## Lewkat (Oct 3, 2022)

Well, at the moment, we are now on the hunt for the Red October.  Seems as though a Russian sub carrying the Doomsday nuke has gone off the radar.  It is missing, and NATO is a tad upset.  To put it mildly.


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## Mitch86 (Oct 3, 2022)

Lewkat said:


> Are you always this much fun, Mitch?


Yes.  It's better to die laughing than die crying.  I have FUN every moment of every day.


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## RadishRose (Oct 3, 2022)

Who has the time or money to shovel out a bunker in the side of a mountain and equip it with computer games?


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## Patch (Oct 3, 2022)

Not "preparing".  Believe Putin is close to seeing a coup.  This latest conscription of 300,000 males isn't going well.  Being sent into war with no training.  Slaughtered and/or captured.  Thousands have left Russia, seeking asylum elsewhere.  

Putin may try using some nerve gas as he did in Syria.  That will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.  He would rather die than admit defeat.  Might happen, either by his own hand or someone else's.  

We can remember seeing the long bread lines in Russia as the USSR was falling apart.  Don't think the Russian people will return to that.  

No, I'm not worrying about myself or my family.  Do worry about our son who is still U.S. Army.  He'll retire in another two years, but the Russia/Ukraine thing will be resolved... on way or another... before then.  He's with the 82nd Airborne so could be one of the first to be deployed if necessary.  Still don't think we will see American troops in Ukraine or Russia... or see our troops in danger of nuclear attacks.


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## rgp (Oct 3, 2022)

NorthernLight said:


> Prepare?



 I agree here  .......


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## Lewkat (Oct 3, 2022)

That Russian sub is believed to be headed for the Kara Sea for tests.  Not sure whether it actually has that apocalyptic weapon aboard or it has the ability to launch the same, if it does.  Also, it may not even be armed.

If any nukes should be launched, our space program has the ability to intercept them.  It is the land armed nuclear warheads we have to be prepared for in Ukraine.


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## Bella (Oct 3, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> *Who has the time or money to shovel out a bunker in the side of a mountain and equip it with computer games?*


No need to shovel, Rose. Here's one underground that's all ready to go. A retro luxury underground bunker located in Las Vegas, built by Avon-cosmetics-executive Girard Henderson in 1978. It was for sale for $1.7 million from 2014 to 2020 with an incredible increase to $18 million. Maybe we could all chip in? 

"Henderson’s 5,000-square-foot house, grounds and amenities were built underground inside a 15,000-square-foot bunker of steel-reinforced concrete. The traditional-style home includes the best decor and design that the 1970s had to offer, and Henderson could afford whatever his heart desired. He wanted luxury and an underground lifestyle that would be as close to his and his family’s above ground lifestyle as possible.

The interior is still decked out with a well-designed ‘70’s kitchen, great room with beamed ceilings, a large stone fireplace and sliding glass doors that open to the faux outside lawn and views. There are multiple conversation areas, a game room with two bars, and a theater room – a rarity in the 1970s. The master suite has vaulted-beamed ceilings and a hideaway television console at the foot of the bed that rises from the cabinet for viewing with the touch of a remote. There are five bedrooms and six elegant baths to keep a family or group of friends comfortable and socially separated for many weeks. There is also a generator and a 1,000-gallon water tank."

Check it out. Scroll down for slideshow. > https://sassytownhouseliving.com/luxury-underground-bunker/

Bella


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## OneEyedDiva (Oct 3, 2022)

America has an emergency plan...but it doesn't include us (regular folks). I saw a documentary about it on Paramount+ I think. Their plan involves preserving government by saving the lives of out top officials. They've got a special plane and of course, special bunkers. If they drop nukes on N.Y.C....it won't bode well for us here in Jersey either. I've thought about it in passing but your question spurred me to seek an answer about how to prepare. Here's what Ready.gov recommends: 
https://www.ready.gov/sites/default/files/2020-11/ready_nuclear-explosion_fact-sheet_0.pdf
Here is the Brave search page with links to articles and videos about making preparations.
https://search.brave.com/search?q=how+to+prepare+for+nuclear+war&source=desktop


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## RadishRose (Oct 3, 2022)

Bella said:


> No need to shovel, Rose. Here's one underground that's all ready to go. A retro luxury underground bunker located in Las Vegas, built by Avon-cosmetics-executive Girard Henderson in 1978. It was for sale for $1.7 million from 2014 to 2020 with an incredible increase to $18 million. Maybe we could all chip in?
> 
> "Henderson’s 5,000-square-foot house, grounds and amenities were built underground inside a 15,000-square-foot bunker of steel-reinforced concrete. The traditional-style home includes the best decor and design that the 1970s had to offer, and Henderson could afford whatever his heart desired. He wanted luxury and an underground lifestyle that would be as close to his and his family’s above ground lifestyle as possible.
> 
> ...


 I guess it would keep you safe but it is so ugly even for the 70s it's ugly  but fascinating. Thanks!


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## Blessed (Oct 3, 2022)

Bella said:


> There's only one way to prepare for annihilation. A fully stocked bar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Don M. (Oct 3, 2022)

If Putin goes completely nuts, and launches a nuclear attack, we are ALL at risk.  NATO would retaliate, and Putin would go "all out", and within hours or days, the entire planet would be at risk.


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## Ruthanne (Oct 3, 2022)

If I knew how to prepare for it besides kiss my #$& goodbye I would.


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## chic (Oct 4, 2022)

Nuclear war would just be another excuse to lock everyone up for another two years while jacking up prices on what remains in the world do to radioactive contamination.  Can't they they think up something else? Haven't we had enough of this by now? Maybe it's time to resurrect the peace movement. It was effective back in the day.


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## Jamala (Oct 4, 2022)

Nuclear war is inevitable but it won’t be in our lifetime or even our children’s
A study last month found that the countries with the best hope of at least seeing their civilisation survive during the ten years after a nuclear war would be Argentina and Australia.


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## Been There (Oct 4, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Oops.  The Hiroshima bomb was dropped in August 1945 , not in 1941.
> December 1941 was when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.


This is what happens when my mind is rushing fingers are moving faster than my brain. Thanks for the correction.

When did the U.S. bomb Libya? I will never forget that date.


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## Been There (Oct 4, 2022)

Jamala said:


> Nuclear war is inevitable but it won’t be in our lifetime or even our children’s
> A study last month found that the countries with the best hope of at least seeing their civilisation survive during the ten years after a nuclear war would be Argentina and Australia.


I have to wonder why Argentina?


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## Been There (Oct 4, 2022)

Last evening, North Korea fired a ballistic missile over Japan. It scared Japan enough for them to sound the alarms throughout the country to take cover. According to the earliest news reports, it's their believe that North Korea was just doing testing with the range of their missiles. This was not the first time that North Korea has fired a missile over Japan.


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## DGM (Oct 4, 2022)

Hiding under desks in the fifties?  This says it all.  BE AWARE:  ADULT language!  Do NOT watch if you'll "be offended".


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## Lewkat (Oct 4, 2022)

Been There said:


> This is what happens when my mind is rushing fingers are moving faster than my brain. Thanks for the correction.
> 
> When did the U.S. bomb Libya? I will never forget that date.


It was sometime in the 80s.


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## Been There (Oct 4, 2022)

Lewkat said:


> It was sometime in the 80s.


Tuesday, April 15, 1986. Codename: Operation El Dorado Canyon
President Reagan ordered the strike in retaliation for the discotheque bombing in West Berlin. Supposedly, strike forces killed Gaddafi's baby daughter, which has been disputed if even he had a baby daughter. This was based on hearsay only. We did have one F-111 shot down and lost the 2 crew members.


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## Judycat (Oct 4, 2022)

Oh well. It would be the perfect ending to my ill-fated life.


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## Timewise 60+ (Oct 4, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> You must have read that study before the development of surface-to-air preemptive missiles....missiles that destroy, detonate, or redirect other missiles.


Do you really think Russia and China do not already have the technology and plan to get enough nukes going off over the USA to do the job!  If you don't know this, then send me some of the 'Cool Aid' you have been drinking.  Also, believe we too have the technology and plan to be sure that our nukes take care of those who fired them at us...


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## Paco Dennis (Oct 4, 2022)

Solution: All nations accept and negotiate a cease fire, and let Russia have the annexed territory. Maintain the peace between the Ukrainians and the newly annexed territory. Teach the people how to live in peace and forgive and forget the past madness. Supply food and energy to all peoples in that region. Stop the war immediately before it becomes a tragedy of monstrous proportions.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Oct 4, 2022)

Been There said:


> I have to wonder why Argentina?


The studies have indicated that the greatest impact of nuclear war, would be in the mid to upper latitudes, where most of the action would take place. The ocean currents and jet streams would mostly keep it north of the equator.

The largest death toll would be the impact on soil + soil temperature, and thus food supply... leading to mass starvation (billions). Regions further south of the equator would be less impacted. Places like Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and Argentina, etc. Not that it would be a picnic.

A lot of this is based on past volcanic eruptions around the early 1800s, during the Mount Pinatabu and Mount Tambora eruptions.

If you think rushing to buy land in those countries is part of your preparedness plan... it would be expensive. Rich folks have been busy in those areas.


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## sch404 (Oct 4, 2022)

There is simply no way to prepare for nuclear conflict. Nuclear conflict will result in the end of human civilization.


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## fuzzybuddy (Oct 4, 2022)

All  preparation does is postpone the inevitable.  In an all-out thermonuclear war, there is no plan B. Even if you survive the initial blasts, what happens when your supply of Snickers is gone? Exactly how are you going to live off the radioactive land?


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## Murrmurr (Oct 4, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Do you really think Russia and China do not already have the technology and plan to get enough nukes going off over the USA to do the job!  If you don't know this, then send me some of the 'Cool Aid' you have been drinking.  Also, believe we too have the technology and plan to be sure that our nukes take care of those who fired them at us...


Of course I know that. Not sure they all work, but yes I'm pretty sure they have plenty of 'em.

Here's one for you: Did you know Kool-Aid is a dangerous substance...and spelled with a K ?


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## Flarbalard (Oct 4, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Of course I know that. Not sure they all work, but yes I'm pretty sure they have plenty of 'em.
> 
> Here's one for you: Did you know Kool-Aid is a dangerous substance...and spelled with a K ?


You been hangin' with Ken Kesey again?


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## chic (Oct 4, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Solution: All nations accept and negotiate a cease fire, and let Russia have the annexed territory. Maintain the peace between the Ukrainians and the newly annexed territory. Teach the people how to live in peace and forgive and forget the past madness. Supply food and energy to all peoples in that region. Stop the war immediately before it becomes a tragedy of monstrous proportions.


War is a money making machine which is why it will be difficult to stop. But I'm all for promoting peace in any way shape or form. Sooner or later people will become outraged by the cost of this "war" which is causing energy prices to skyrocket at a time when our economies are least able to cope with that. Something HAS to give here, and it will.


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## Nathan (Oct 4, 2022)

> Should We Prepare for a Nuclear Conflict?



You should always have some disaster preparedness in place, to make the short term future more pleasant.    But not matter how much you become a prepper you can't guarantee survival.   If you have a little farm in some remote location, go to it now.
We should all prepare ourselves to meet our maker, now is a good time as any...



DGM said:


> Hiding under desks in the fifties?  This says it all.  BE AWARE:  ADULT language!  Do NOT watch if you'll "be offended".


Adult language?  Lewis Black?  Naw!


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## Murrmurr (Oct 4, 2022)

Flarbalard said:


> You been hangin' with Ken Kesey again?


Who's that? (nvrmind, I'll look it up)


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## Mr. Ed (Oct 4, 2022)

What is there to prepare for...death? I can achieve that without a nuclear attack.


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## sch404 (Oct 4, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Solution: All nations accept and negotiate a cease fire, and let Russia have the annexed territory. Maintain the peace between the Ukrainians and the newly annexed territory. Teach the people how to live in peace and forgive and forget the past madness. Supply food and energy to all peoples in that region. Stop the war immediately before it becomes a tragedy of monstrous proportions.


Appeasing dictators and madmen is not a solution to anything. Killing them is.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 4, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Solution: All nations accept and negotiate a cease fire, and let Russia have the annexed territory. Maintain the peace between the Ukrainians and the newly annexed territory. Teach the people how to live in peace and forgive and forget the past madness. Supply food and energy to all peoples in that region. Stop the war immediately before it becomes a tragedy of monstrous proportions.


That'd work if borders were meaningless, and normal average people didn't equate them with words like "home" and "belonging" and "community".

Solution 1: All Russian military personnel go home to a big heroes welcome, Russia stays Russia, Ukraine stays Ukraine (all of it), and the two countries become loving, helpful neighbors. Oh, and Putin has a fatal heart attack but it's ok (if anyone cares) because he dies in his sleep.


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## Packerjohn (Oct 4, 2022)

Remember this!  If the nuclear bomb is coming; its coming to a monster city near you.  No one is going to send a big expensive bomb to some little town in Saskatchewan or Montana with a few hundred folks.  Nope!  The bombers want to get the maximum "bang for their bucks."  Therefore, cities like London, Paris, Rome, Chicago, New York and that "City of Angels" LA are gonna get it.  Thems the facts pilgrims!  Everyone wants a bargain.


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## Paco Dennis (Oct 4, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> That'd work if borders were meaningless, and normal average people didn't equate them with words like "home" and "belonging" and "community".
> 
> Solution 1: All Russian military personnel go home to a big heroes welcome, Russia stays Russia, Ukraine stays Ukraine (all of it), and the two countries become loving, helpful neighbors. Oh, and Putin has a fatal heart attack but it's ok (if anyone cares) because he dies in his sleep.


  Can you conceive of Putin turning tail and going home?


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## Paco Dennis (Oct 4, 2022)

sch404 said:


> Appeasing dictators and madmen is not a solution to anything. Killing them is.




Assonating Putin would cause all kinds of international backlash!


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## sch404 (Oct 4, 2022)

Backlash?? I'll take that any day over allowing this crazy mass murderer to continue breathing!!


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## Bella (Oct 4, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> *All  preparation does is postpone the inevitable.  In an all-out thermonuclear war, there is no plan B. Even if you survive the initial blasts, what happens when your supply of Snickers is gone? Exactly how are you going to live off the radioactive land?*


You're right, Fuzz, there is no Plan B, what's the point? I'm goin' with Plan A. I won't have to worry about living off the radioactive land, I'll be in an alcohol induced coma. You're welcome to join me.


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## StarSong (Oct 4, 2022)

There's little chance of long term survival from an all out nuclear war.  Radiation sickness would eventually get everyone, and most other living things on this planet.  Remember "On the Beach" book and movie?


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## sch404 (Oct 4, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> Remember this!  If the nuclear bomb is coming; its coming to a monster city near you.  No one is going to send a big expensive bomb to some little town in Saskatchewan or Montana with a few hundred folks.  Nope!  The bombers want to get the maximum "bang for their bucks."  Therefore, cities like London, Paris, Rome, Chicago, New York and that "City of Angels" LA are gonna get it.  Thems the facts pilgrims!  Everyone wants a bargain.


It simply doesn't matter where on Earth the nuclear bombs actually hit. If you live in a remote area and don't get killed by the initial blast, you'll wish that you had been soon enough!


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## Murrmurr (Oct 4, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Can you conceive of Putin turning tail and going home?


No. Like you, I was dreaming.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 4, 2022)

sch404 said:


> It simply doesn't matter where on Earth the nuclear bombs actually hit. If you live in a remote area and don't get killed by the initial blast, you'll wish that you had been soon enough!


Depends on how fast you can dig   (and I'm thinking hovels, not graves)


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## Timewise 60+ (Oct 4, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Of course I know that. Not sure they all work, but yes I'm pretty sure they have plenty of 'em.
> 
> Here's one for you: Did you know Kool-Aid is a dangerous substance...and spelled with a K ?


Nice of you to notice.  Spelling never was my strength, but I still made it through Graduate School...how about you?  
Oh, you need a comma, after your comment "Of course"...


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## SeniorBen (Oct 4, 2022)

sch404 said:


> Appeasing dictators and madmen is not a solution to anything. Killing them is.


People are probably plotting to do just that. We can only hope they get the chance before Putin presses the button.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 4, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> Remember this!  If the nuclear bomb is coming; its coming to a monster city near you.  No one is going to send a big expensive bomb to some little town in Saskatchewan or Montana with a few hundred folks.  Nope!  The bombers want to get the maximum "bang for their bucks."  Therefore, cities like London, Paris, Rome, Chicago, New York and that "City of Angels" LA are gonna get it.  Thems the facts pilgrims!  Everyone wants a bargain.


They'll hit significant military and supply targets fist, and then crucial infrastructure like dams and such. People aren't the target, right?

I live within 25 minutes of 2 active air/navy military bases and a major inland port, and I'm 5 minutes from an international airport and about 30 minutes away from the dam that regulates the water that goes to all of them.

Sitting ducks, I suppose.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 4, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Oh, you need a comma, after your comment "Of course"...


Not in this case. It would have been needed if I'd written "I know that, of course."


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## StarSong (Oct 4, 2022)

The pandemic was the palest of warmups for the unthinkable horrors nuclear bombs would present to survivors of the blasts.    

Communications, manufacturing, electricity, and most transportation (modern cars included) would cease operating even outside of the immediate target zones because nukes create EMPs (electromagnetic pulses) that interfere with electronics. Water would stop flowing from our taps, power would go out, sewage would back up, and chaos, panic and lawlessness would reign supreme.

Survivors would be thrown back into the 1800s, though very few belong to a community with the skillsets people had back then.   Even the Amish would have to deal with a lack of clean water, arable soil and local raiders.  The only way to know what was happening outside one's own front door would be to go outside.

Most with hovels or small bunkers would die of exposure, thirst, starvation, illness, minor infections, murder or suicide long before the worst of the radiation dissipated.  Humans require fresh air, clean water, food and sunshine to survive.      

Nuclear war would be the endgame for our species and many others, or damn close to it.  TBH, I'd rather go in the first wave than suffer through the horror that would come after it.


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## win231 (Oct 4, 2022)

Pappy said:


> No, but how does one prepare? If your anywhere near a nuclear explosion, better make peace with whatever you believe in. You can always hid under your desk. Our school thought that was the best way.


Yes, those highly-useful drills in 2nd grade.  Crouching under our desks.  And don't forget to put our hands over our heads for protection......
during vaporization.


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## StarSong (Oct 4, 2022)

win231 said:


> Yes, those highly-useful drills in 2nd grade.  Crouching under our desks.  And don't forget to put our hands over our heads for protection......
> during vaporization.


Exactly.


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## David777 (Oct 4, 2022)

Surprised some members are still posting like Russia is suddenly considering using nuclear weapons.  All that noise is from dominant Western media under control of our war mongering militaristic neoconservatives like Nuland after the annexing began that pi$$ed them off. The same neocon media that has changed its tune from originally just defending Ukraine to punishing Russia until regime change occurs, their original actual agenda. It is true that some in Russian media have been talking to their public audiences for months on how their nuclear arsenal is a strong deterrent.  

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-ukraine-war-1.6605262
snippet:

_The Kremlin said on Tuesday that it did not want to take part in "nuclear rhetoric" spread by the West after a media report that Russia was preparing to demonstrate its willingness to use nuclear weapons with a test on Ukraine's border. The Times newspaper reported on Monday that the NATO military alliance had warned members that Putin was set to demonstrate his willingness to use nuclear weapons and that Russia had moved a train thought to be linked to a unit of the defense ministry that was responsible for nuclear munitions. When asked about the Times report, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said: "The Western media, Western politicians and heads of state are engaging in a lot of exercises in nuclear rhetoric right now. We do not want to take part in this."_


----------



## WhatInThe (Oct 4, 2022)

I remember tidbits like this.

To keep people from looking at blast and going blind to remind to face away just remember 'butt to the blast' but in reality at that point it's kiss your butt good bye.


----------



## Nathan (Oct 4, 2022)

Whether or not you may like/dislike horror+apocalypse+zombie shows, ya gotta admit- The Walking Dead is "warm & fuzzy" compared to how things will be, post-nuclear exchange.   Walking Dead does highlight great survival ideas, watch the episodes in seasons 1-6 for great  tips and techniques.


----------



## Alligatorob (Oct 4, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> Who has the time or money to shovel out a bunker in the side of a mountain and equip it with computer games?


Not me, I’m going to come down on the optimistic side of this one.  Hopefully cooler heads prevail, but I’ve been wrong before


----------



## StarSong (Oct 4, 2022)

David777 said:


> Surprised some members are still posting like Russia is suddenly considering using nuclear weapons.  All that noise is from dominant Western media under control of our war mongering militaristic neoconservatives like Nuland after the annexing began that pi$$ed them off. The same neocon media that has changed its tune from originally just defending Ukraine to punishing Russia until regime change occurs, their original actual agenda. It is true that some in Russian media have been talking to their public audiences for months on how their nuclear arsenal is a strong deterrent.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-ukraine-war-1.6605262
> snippet:
> ...


This is an academic exercise for us, David.  Foolish games of "what if..."  

If I truly believed we were on the precipice of nuclear war I wouldn't be sitting calmly at my computer typing about it.  Not sure exactly what I'd be doing, but definitely not this.  Probably would be with my family or in a church.


----------



## squatting dog (Oct 4, 2022)

Setting off a high altitude nuke or two, (super EMP), would end up destroying most of the population. No need to hit military targets anymore in today's technological age. How many people are actually prepared to survive in a country with no electrical equipment at all?
Modern experts predict about 90% of the population would die within 2-3 months. Myself, after observing the retards running around today without a clue, I'd put the percentage a bit higher.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 4, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Setting off a high altitude nuke or two, (super EMP), would end up destroying most of the population.


The three book series by William Forstchen depicts a pretty ugly scenario of how quickly a country would devolve into lawlessness, chaos and desperation in the case of nukes that caused EMPs.  Wouldn't even have to damage any infrastructure or actually kill anyone.  

Whatever country suffered this blow would quickly respond in kind, which is probably what keeps leaders in check.  The country that lands the first punch will quickly itself all but annihilated.


----------



## Murrmurr (Oct 4, 2022)

StarSong said:


> The three book series by William Forstchen depicts a pretty ugly scenario of how quickly a country would devolve into lawlessness, chaos and desperation in the case of nukes that caused EMPs.  Wouldn't even have to damage any infrastructure or actually kill anyone.
> 
> Whatever country suffered this blow would quickly *respond in kind, which is probably what keeps leaders in check.*  The country that lands the first punch will quickly itself all but annihilated.


In bold: yeah, that's what's prevented a nuclear attack so far. Remember when everyone got nervous about nuclear capability in the Middle-East? That's because guys from over there were insane enough to fly planes full of people into 2 WTC buildings and the Pentagon, so no one doubted they'd use nukes practically on a whim.

No matter how, who, or where, the kind of destruction nukes would cause will indeed result in lawlessness, imo, because it wouldn't be long at all before people got hungry and thirsty. Hunger is a powerful motivator. Probably more powerful than any. People will want to feed their kids, and if they can't find food, they'll steal someone else's, and they'll kill for it if they have to.


----------



## DaveA (Oct 4, 2022)

Pappy said:


> No, but how does one prepare? If your anywhere near a nuclear explosion, better make peace with whatever you believe in. You can always hid under your desk. Our school thought that was the best way.


+I'm working at raising my desk supports.  I'm not as supply as I used to be and can't fit under the desk.

+
++++


----------



## dseag2 (Oct 4, 2022)

DGM said:


> Hiding under desks in the fifties?  This says it all.  BE AWARE:  ADULT language!  Do NOT watch if you'll "be offended".


Thank you.  I LOVE Lewis Black!


----------



## dseag2 (Oct 4, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Nice of you to notice.  Spelling never was my strength, but I still made it through Graduate School...how about you?
> Oh, you need a comma, after your comment "Of course"...



So glad you made it through graduate school.  You are such a special person!  

I wasn't going to call you out on your spelling of "sighting" vs. "citing" in your response to my post but I will now since you seem to think you are so superior.  No kidding that spelling was never your strength, even the fundamental basics, and it doesn't speak well for whatever college you graduated from.   

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/investment-income-on-the-decline-again.70833/page-3


----------



## Harry Le Hermit (Oct 4, 2022)

A thread about nuclear annihilation has devolved to spelling and grammar. Maybe it is time to light it up!


----------



## FastTrax (Oct 4, 2022)

www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/07/16/156851175/five-men-agree-to-stand-directly-under-an-exploding-nuclear-bomb

www.criticalpast.com/video/65675046804_Nuclear-test_Desert-floor_obscured-by-brightness_fireball-and-smoke

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/25979

www.huffpost.com/entry/george-yoshitake-nuclear-test-5-men-nevada_n_1687233

www.imdb.com/title/tt0366195/

www.makmac.com/projects/icarus/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob


----------



## win231 (Oct 4, 2022)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> A thread about nuclear annihilation has devolved to spelling and grammar. Maybe it is time to light it up!


Don't you mean "Lighten it up?"


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Oct 5, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Not in this case. It would have been needed if I'd written "I know that, of course."


As I thought, punctuation is not your strength....look it up!
Should I Place A Comma After “Of Course”?​*You should place a comma after “of course” in every case unless it’s at the end of a sentence (where a period is better). “Of course” is either an introductory clause to a sentence or a parenthetical element, both of which require commas after “of course.”*


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Oct 5, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> So glad you made it through graduate school.  You are such a special person!
> 
> I wasn't going to call you out on your spelling of "sighting" vs. "citing" in your response to my post but I will now since you seem to think you are so superior.  No kidding that spelling was never your strength, even the fundamental basics, and it doesn't speak well for whatever college you graduated from.
> 
> https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/investment-income-on-the-decline-again.70833/page-3


Can you spell 'Envy'.... have a nice life!  Let me define that word for you.   
"A desire to have a quality, possession, or other desirable attribute belonging to (someone else):


----------



## TheOtherRick (Oct 5, 2022)

_I'm trying to save an end-of-the-world bowl, but since the world isn't in a hurry to kill itself I keep smoking it, so, no preparing isn't working._


----------



## Murrmurr (Oct 5, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> As I thought, punctuation is not your strength....look it up!
> Should I Place A Comma After “Of Course”?​*You should place a comma after “of course” in every case unless it’s at the end of a sentence (where a period is better). “Of course” is either an introductory clause to a sentence or a parenthetical element, both of which require commas after “of course.”*


In my sentence, "of course" was neither an introductory clause nor a parenthetical element. It was like saying "of course you can" the way you would say "you know you can" or "of course I know" as you'd say "you know that I know".

In any case -comma- I'm no grammar whiz -comma- so I rely on a grammar app that I downloaded some while back -comma- and I'm not gonna argue with the damn thing. That would be silly.

Oh, yeah -comma- did you know that commas are optional? So say at least thousand of novelists. I -comma- myself -comma- am usually guilty of the _over-use_ of commas. Go figure -comma- right?


----------



## Murrmurr (Oct 5, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Can you spell 'Envy'.... have a nice life!  Let me define that word for you.
> "A desire to have a quality, possession, or other desirable attribute belonging to (someone else):


Holy crap, you're not joking. Take a breather, man. Have a drink or something. Being a dickhead over grammar on a senior social platform is ridiculous.

And, according to this thread, time is short.


----------



## Murrmurr (Oct 5, 2022)

David777 said:


> Surprised some members are still posting like Russia is suddenly considering using nuclear weapons.  All that noise is from dominant Western media under control of our war mongering militaristic neoconservatives like Nuland after the annexing began that pi$$ed them off. The same neocon media that has changed its tune from originally just defending Ukraine to punishing Russia until regime change occurs, their original actual agenda. It is true that some in Russian media have been talking to their public audiences for months on how their nuclear arsenal is a strong deterrent.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-ukraine-war-1.6605262
> snippet:
> ...


Putin continues to remind the West that Russia's nuclear strength is unsurpassed. He occasionally does it publicly, and he does it on Russian state television frequently.


----------



## Been There (Oct 5, 2022)

StarSong said:


> There's little chance of long term survival from an all out nuclear war.  Radiation sickness would eventually get everyone, and most other living things on this planet.  Remember "On the Beach" book and movie?


I agree. The worse part of an all out nuclear war would be anyone that survived the initial explosion and having to wait for death to come after walking or laying around with radiation sickness and with blisters all over their body.

I remember seeing documentaries with survivors from the Hiroshima and Nagasaki nuclear attacks. Many of those people had blisters on their body, along with parts of fingers and toes missing, disfigurement to their face and other parts of their body. Radiation sickness alone would make someone wishing that death would soon come.


----------



## C50 (Oct 5, 2022)

I'm a pragmatic thinker.  Do I think a nuclear attack is possible?  Sure.  Am I worried about it? No.

You ever the saying "don't sweat the small suff"?  I'm the opposite, I don't sweat the big stuff.  The small stuff I can usually solve, the big stuff not.


----------



## Murrmurr (Oct 5, 2022)

win231 said:


> Don't you mean "Lighten it up?"


Or "Light one up"


----------



## squatting dog (Oct 5, 2022)




----------



## Warrigal (Oct 5, 2022)

Does anyone remember the 1983 movie War Games? 
The only way to win a nuclear war is to not start one.
Once started, there can be no winners.


----------



## Nathan (Oct 5, 2022)

win231 said:


> Don't you mean "Lighten it up?"


....pretty sure he meant:


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Oct 6, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Putin continues to remind the West that Russia's nuclear strength is unsurpassed. He occasionally does it publicly, and he does it on Russian state television frequently.


And you believe everything Putin says!?


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Oct 6, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Holy crap, you're not joking. Take a breather, man. Have a drink or something. Being a dickhead over grammar on a senior social platform is ridiculous.
> 
> And, according to this thread, time is short.


You only prove my point!  Name calling, really?  Calm down and take a long time out...


----------



## fuzzybuddy (Oct 6, 2022)

Bella said:


> You're right, Fuzz, there is no Plan B, what's the point? I'm goin' with Plan A. I won't have to worry about living off the radioactive land, I'll be in an alcohol induced coma. You're welcome to join me.


It's not that I think surviving WWIII is undoable, I doubt we can go from a 21st century world back to the Stone Age in a week. During Covid, toilet paper was supposedly a scarce commodity, and there was intense hoarding. If people react that way over toilet paper, what do you think will happen  when the 21st Cen. supply chain dries up, and there's nothing on any Walmart shelf. Survivalists believe the can isolate themselves from the viciousness of others, but sooner or later they are going to run out of ammo. We just won't have the infrastructure to support populations


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 6, 2022)

NO.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 6, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> And you believe everything Putin says!?


No. Why would you even ask me that?

I'd estimate that only around 30% of Russian citizens believe even half of what he says.


----------



## Murrmurr (Oct 6, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> NO.


Hi, Aneeda!

You don't think we should prepare for a nuclear conflict? Is that because we're too old to bother/gonna die soon anyway, or because nuclear war isn't a possibility? 

It's a good idea to be prepared for extended black-outs, natural disasters, and horrible accidents and such, but I'm too spent already to trudge through an apocalyptic world looking for sustenance and hiding from hungry people. 

Some people will survive a nuclear war provided it ends before survival is impossible. They'll be insect-eating monkey people, but the nearly dead world will be their oyster.


----------



## Murrmurr (Oct 6, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> You only prove my point!  Name calling, really?  Calm down and take a long time out...


I thought your point was about commas.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 6, 2022)

*In the event of a nuclear attack,  prep would  be futile. I live near various ports, military bases, a nuclear base. We will be crispy frittered. If there is any warning, hope to sit on the balcony surrounded by my hanging garden, etc, my cat, a bottle of Laphroaig, smoked salmon plate, and some fine 33% THC BC weed. *


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## Trish (Oct 6, 2022)

David777 said:


> Surprised some members are still posting like Russia is suddenly considering using nuclear weapons.  All that noise is from dominant Western media under control of our war mongering militaristic neoconservatives like Nuland after the annexing began that pi$$ed them off. *The same neocon media that has changed its tune from originally just defending Ukraine to punishing Russia *until regime change occurs, their original actual agenda. It is true that some in Russian media have been talking to their public audiences for months on how their nuclear arsenal is a strong deterrent.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-ukraine-war-1.6605262
> snippet:
> ...



This is what has been bothering me recently, the vibe has changed.


----------



## Murrmurr (Oct 6, 2022)

Trish said:


> This is what has been bothering me recently, the vibe has changed.


(and @David777) 

Maybe the vibe has changed but Putin has always regarded the US as an enemy of Russia and the US "old guard" would be tickled to see him "punished". 

But the number of Russian citizens who want a democratic system of government or at least a major change keeps growing. Still a lot of them believe Putin when he says Americans are satanists and serial killers and homosexuals and racists etc. and that all Americans are "russophobic".


----------



## Paco Dennis (Oct 6, 2022)

I saw an ex Russian oil oligarch who was jailed for 10 years because Putin put him there says that if the 300,000 troops get defeated ( which is becoming a likelihood with the modernized weapons being supplied by the U.S. and N.A.T.O. allies ), he will still not back down, he will probably then use tactical nuclear weapons.


----------



## Trish (Oct 6, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> (and @David777)
> 
> Maybe the vibe has changed but Putin has always regarded the US as an enemy of Russia and the US "old guard" would be tickled to see him "punished".
> 
> But the number of Russian citizens who want a democratic system of government or at least a major change keeps growing. Still a lot of them believe Putin when he says Americans are satanists and serial killers and homosexuals and racists etc. and that all Americans are "russophobic".


I was thinking of the UK media which initially reported on events and expressed support (rightly in my view) for the Ukranian people but, increasingly, it has become more aggressive and warlike.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 6, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Hi, Aneeda!
> 
> You don't think we should prepare for a nuclear conflict? Is that because we're too old to bother/gonna die soon anyway, or because nuclear war isn't a possibility?
> 
> ...


I remember preparing for nuclear war with Russia when I was in grade school.  We had a nearly windowless school and we crouched under our desks.  Since we were young, and flexible, it was easy to kiss our butts goodbye.

Old physically inflexible me is too fat to crouch under a desk, too arthritic to get up from that position, and not at all interested in kissing any butt let alone mine.  Having said that, if the bombs are dropped I want to die first.

Seeing the end of humanity is not on my bucket list.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 6, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> I thought your point was about commas.


This is one of the reason I timed myself out from the forum.  The punctuation police.  The spelling police.  The name calling claims police.  The I have a better college education than you do police.  .

As if I cared about punctuation, spelling, name calling, or a college education.  As if anyone, over 50, cares more about these things than, let’s face it, making it to the bathroom in time; cause, you know, you only have so many pairs of dry undies.

Btw,@Murrmurr, how does @Timewise 60+ feel about semi-colons?  . I, personally, prefer commas, lots, and lots, of commas.


----------



## FastTrax (Oct 6, 2022)




----------



## Murrmurr (Oct 6, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> I remember preparing for nuclear war with Russia when I was in grade school.  We had a nearly windowless school and we crouched under our desks.  Since we were young, and flexible, it was easy to kiss our butts goodbye.
> 
> Old physically inflexible me is too fat to crouch under a desk, too arthritic to get up from that position, and not at all interested in kissing any butt let alone mine.  Having said that, if the bombs are dropped I want to die first.
> 
> Seeing the end of humanity is not on my bucket list.


As part of my Preparedness Plan, I've told my kids to just take care of their kids and spouses and I'll take care of me and Michell, and I've told Michelle to take care of herself.


----------



## Murrmurr (Oct 6, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> I saw an ex Russian oil oligarch who was jailed for 10 years because Putin put him there says that if the 300,000 troops get defeated ( which is becoming a likelihood with the modernized weapons being supplied by the U.S. and N.A.T.O. allies ), he will still not back down, he will probably then use tactical nuclear weapons.


I'm only speculating, but I think the main reason Putin basically claimed ownership of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia is because the US-NATO agreement is that an unprovoked attack on Russian soil is a war crime, and he believes NATO can be accused of war crimes simply if US weapons are used in those regions. And he's probably thinking that any type of US-NATO military involvement there will justify his use of nuclear weapons, including a "self-defensive" nuclear attack on the US.

I doubt that he cares at all about war-crime trials, but he believes Russian citizens will accept this justification.
Again, I'm just speculating.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 6, 2022)

FastTrax said:


>


It's reassuring to see that Australia, New Zealand, PNG and Greenland are unscathed in that scenario.
That means that the On the Beach prediction of Neville Shute might just come to pass. We will watch the rest of the world being destroyed before being killed off by the radiation cloud. 

In retrospect, not at all reassuring.


----------



## Don M. (Oct 6, 2022)

The more setbacks that the Russian military suffer in Ukraine, The more likely that Putin will consider using Nukes.


----------



## FastTrax (Oct 6, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> It's reassuring to see that Australia, New Zealand, PNG and Greenland are unscathed in that scenario.
> That means that the On the Beach prediction of Neville Shute might just come to pass. We will watch the rest of the world being destroyed before being killed off by the radiation cloud.
> 
> In retrospect, not at all reassuring.



Here ya go Warrigal

On The Beach 1959



www.imdb.com/title/tt0053137/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_(1959_film)







On The Beach 2000



www.imdb.com/title/tt0219224/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_(2000_film)






On The Beach Book



www.sparknotes.com/lit/onthebeach/summary/

https://fictionfanblog.wordpress.com/2019/09/30/film-of-the-book-on-the-beach/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_(novel)


----------



## SeniorBen (Oct 6, 2022)

My biggest fear is that the world will be destroyed before I finish building the shoe-rack/entryway table I'm currently working on. I have about another ten hours of work on it before I apply the finish, so maybe another 12 hours until completion.

Hmmm... what holds up better when exposed to radiation... varnish or poly? It doesn't say on the cans.


----------



## ElCastor (Oct 7, 2022)

I have read (speculation?) that if Putin orders the use of a nuclear weapon he will be overthrown by a coup administered by his own military before the weapon could be detonated. Lets hope that's true.


----------



## FastTrax (Oct 7, 2022)

www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden-warns-risk-of-nuclear-armageddon-highest-cuban-missile-crisis-rcna51146


----------



## Been There (Oct 7, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Hi, Aneeda!
> 
> You don't think we should prepare for a nuclear conflict? Is that because we're too old to bother/gonna die soon anyway, or because nuclear war isn't a possibility?
> 
> ...


You are right about that. There were some people in Florida, like those living on Sanibel Island that didn’t heed the warnings of the hurricane. It cost some their life.


----------



## squatting dog (Oct 7, 2022)

This is about to get real. Former president of Russia, Dmitry Medvedev made this public statement yesterday:

"It is useless and unnecessary to appeal to the prudence of our enemies in the West, the enemies must
be forced to ask for mercy in the lost economic battle and end it with their complete and unconditional
surrender."

Folks, we need to understand that whether you like Putin or not is irelivent because he has the final say when it comes to nuclear decisions and I personally think Russia is not going to roll over just because the United States insists it will continue to funnel arms and money to Ukraine. One should be very careful when poking a bear.
If the former president is in Putin's corner, you can be sure there are other high ranking people there also.


----------



## StarSong (Oct 7, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> This is about to get real. Former president of Russia, Dmitry Medvedev made this public statement yesterday:
> 
> "It is useless and unnecessary to appeal to the prudence of our enemies in the West, the enemies must
> be forced to ask for mercy in the lost economic battle and end it with their complete and unconditional
> ...


The political realm is filled with bear-pokers, most of them are bears themselves.  Putin is a perfect example.  Hitler was pretty relentless, too.  China, Japan, England, Spain, the US, most Middle Eastern countries, and a lot of the rest of the world have taken turns at being bears who've poked other bears.     

At what point should people or territories under threat of absorption or extinction fight back even if outgunned?  Should they simply surrender and let the chips fall where they may?  And at what point should other countries lend a hand?  Or should they simply sit by with the attitude of "Not my circus not my monkeys"? 

Don't get me wrong, I hate war and see it as a massive game of egos.  Unfortunately, territorial "wins" have never yet satisfied encroaching forces - it merely emboldens them. 

If Putin easily took Ukraine without other countries stepping in, do you really believe he would have stopped there?


----------



## John cycling (Oct 7, 2022)

StarSong said:


> If Putin easily took Ukraine without other countries stepping in, do you really believe he would have stopped there?



If the U.S. (& NATO) took Ukraine without Russia stepping in, do you really think they'd stop there.

What if Russia was invading Mexico.  Would the U.S. step in to try and stop them?  Like Russia is doing in Ukraine?



IKE said:


> Pappy I also remember back in the 60's being taught in school to get under our desks during the Cuban missile crisis......we know now that it wouldn't have done any good back then any more than it would today.



Of course hiding under a desk wouldn't work.  Personally I'm going to hide in a closet.  I've got a can of beans in there and some water.


----------



## Paco Dennis (Oct 7, 2022)

With international negotiations and treaties it may have stopped the whole war. But, negotiations never happened. Now, it is fantasy to say Putin will take the Ukraine. So that scenario is off the table. It is a matter now, of a stand off between Russia against the U.S. and N.A.T.O.. This whole thing could have been avoided if the war mongers and military industrial complex wasn't pulling the strings to escalate this conflict. BIG $$$$$$$$$$$. Plus the oil control and agricultural control. BIG $$$$$$$$. This isn't about good guys against bad guys.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2022)

Don M. said:


> The more setbacks that the Russian military suffer in Ukraine, The more likely that Putin will consider using Nukes.


I agree


----------



## StarSong (Oct 7, 2022)

John cycling said:


> f the U.S. (& NATO) took Ukraine without Russia stepping in, do you really think they'd stop there.


I do not.  Nor would I expect them to do so.  The difference is that NATO is a country joining an alliance, it's not an absorption.

Yes, if Russia (or any other country) invaded Mexico the US would step in. I'm not clear how this is an analogy though.


----------



## WhatInThe (Oct 7, 2022)

The conflict would be with nuclear fallout which eventually would cause more damage than what was done at the initial blast area. 

Got to admit Putin and Russians blowing off the possible effects of nuclear fallout just by their laze fare attitude when they took Chernobyl eventually abandoning the move when troops started getting sick from 35 year old radioactive dirt/dust that was stirred up.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2022)

John cycling said:


> If the U.S. (& NATO) took Ukraine without Russia stepping in, do you really think they'd stop there.
> 
> What if Russia was invading Mexico.  Would the U.S. step in to try and stop them?  Like Russia is doing in Ukraine?
> 
> ...


If Russia was invading Mexico, would the USA step in stop Russia from claiming and taking over Mexico?  And, you know, the Mexican people.  Seriously?  @John cycling are you aware that one of the major disagreements between politicians in the USA is over the treatment of illegal Mexican immigrants.

Imagine a Russian Mexico-where Mexicans were now Russians.  Hmm.  The door into the USA on the USA/Mexico border would close so fast that IT would hit you in the butt and bounce you right back into Mexico.  Cause American politicians really really dislike Russians.  More than they dislike Mexicans.  And why the politicians may claim to “love” the Russian people, I doubt their sincerity.  

By cracky, you may have solved a problem.  Let’s keep Ukraine and give the Russians Mexico.


----------



## Paco Dennis (Oct 7, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I do not.  Nor would I expect them to do so.  The difference is that NATO is a country joining an alliance, it's not an absorption.
> 
> Yes, if Russia (or any other country) invaded Mexico the US would step in. I'm not clear how this is an analogy though.


  The history of Western "democracy" ( the U.S. in todays world ) spread throughout the world is a very complex and debated subject. Some think the U.S. used criminal methods many times to take over countries ( look up "economic hitman" ). Others think that socialism and communism need to be wiped out, so the U.S. inspires nations through various methods ( usually economic and militarily ) to join NATO and receive protection if the bad communists invade. The west had Russia surrounded and the Ukraine was the last straw. Just as if the U.S. was surrounded by hostile enemies, finally we would try to stop them.


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## Been There (Oct 7, 2022)

StarSong said:


> The political realm is filled with bear-pokers, most of them are bears themselves.  Putin is a perfect example.  Hitler was pretty relentless, too.  China, Japan, England, Spain, the US, most Middle Eastern countries, and a lot of the rest of the world taken turns at being bears who've poked other bears.
> 
> At what point should people or territories under threat of absorption or extinction fight back even if outgunned?  Should they simply surrender and let the chips fall where they may?  And at what point should other countries lend a hand?  Or should they simply sit by with the attitude of "Not my circus not my monkeys"?
> 
> ...


No, I doubt if he would stop with Ukraine. At one time, I think it was “Time” magazine that I read where Putin wanted to annex Poland.

I don’t consider myself a dumb person, but I don’t understand the line, “….in the lost economic battle…..” What is he referring to?

This war has become very dicey since Ukraine has applied for expedited entry into NATO. Having Ukraine join NATO while at war with Russia puts the U.S. in a very bad situation. If NATO were to accept Ukraine’s bid to fast-track their admission to NATO, the U.S. would be committed to fight a war with Russia and maybe in Russia. How do you think that would sit with our fellow citizens? Seeing planes flying into Dover, Delaware with dead bodies is nothing that none us should want to see happen.

Since the start of the war, Ukraine has used the U.S. as their piggy bank and arms depot. Every dollar we send to Ukraine is borrowed money at the U.S. taxpayer’s expense. To preserve a country’s right to their own autonomy and a country which the U.S. has no interests to protect, Ukraine is expecting too much. We should not put U.S. lives on the line in the situation previously mentioned. We did this in Vietnam and in Korea. Both were no wins and losses of life and money. I pray to God that we do not have another soldier, airman or sailor die on foreign soil while defending a country with no U.S. interests. This is one of the defects of NATO. Citizens in countries that lose their fellow citizens on foreign soil while fighting a war where they have no interests does not sit well with the people. The big question is always, “Why are we even over there?”

Like many other people here on this forum, I have been to war. I have seen many of my fellow U.S. citizens being killed. I have also killed other men that I didn’t even know because my government sent me there to do that. It can eat away at your soul, if you allow it to do that. Certain things will trigger an event in your mind and you have to walk away and settle yourself.

If the U.S. gives aid to Ukraine in the form of money, munitions, health aids and other supplies, ok, but please keep our men and women home. That’s my final words on this topic.

*Nuclear Strike*


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## FastTrax (Oct 7, 2022)

StarSong said:


> The political realm is filled with bear-pokers, most of them are bears themselves.  Putin is a perfect example.  Hitler was pretty relentless, too.  China, Japan, England, Spain, the US, most Middle Eastern countries, and a lot of the rest of the world taken turns at being bears who've poked other bears.
> 
> At what point should people or territories under threat of absorption or extinction fight back even if outgunned?  Should they simply surrender and let the chips fall where they may?  And at what point should other countries lend a hand?  Or should they simply sit by with the attitude of "Not my circus not my monkeys"?
> 
> ...



Excellent point StarSong.


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## Georgiagranny (Oct 7, 2022)

I've only skimmed the responses, but here's what I have to say: I'm not going to waste a single second of what's left of my life worrying about whether Putin is going to use nukes. What good does it do to worry about it? He might. He might not.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 7, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> My biggest fear is that the world will be destroyed before I finish building the shoe-rack/entryway table I'm currently working on. I have about another ten hours of work on it before I apply the finish, so maybe another 12 hours until completion.
> 
> Hmmm... what holds up better when exposed to radiation... varnish or poly? It doesn't say on the cans.


Both will instantaneously combust/disintegrate. 

Sorry, Ben, that thing's a gonner.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 7, 2022)

John cycling said:


> If the U.S. (& NATO) took Ukraine without Russia stepping in, do you really think they'd stop there.
> 
> What if Russia was invading Mexico.  Would the U.S. step in to try and stop them?  Like Russia is doing in Ukraine?


Yes, of course. Remember the nuke threat with Cuba? The the Bay of Pigs?


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## StarSong (Oct 7, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> The history of Western "democracy" ( the U.S. in todays world ) spread throughout the world is a very complex and debated subject. Some think the U.S. used criminal methods many times to take over countries ( look up "economic hitman" ). Others think that socialism and communism need to be wiped out, so the U.S. inspires nations through various methods ( usually economic and militarily ) to join NATO and receive protection if the bad communists invade. The west had Russia surrounded and the Ukraine was the last straw. Just as if the U.S. was surrounded by hostile enemies, finally we would try to stop them.


Russia is barely bordered by NATO countries or even Westernized countries.  It's bordered by Azerbaijan, Belarus, China, Estonia, Finland, Georgia, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Mongolia, Norway, Poland, and Ukraine.  Also the Arctic Ocean, Black Sea, Caspian Sea, Sea of Japan and some other waterways.  Of those, only Estonia, Norway, Latvia and Poland are NATO members.  

Russia's longest border (besides the Arctic Sea) is with Kazakhstan, followed by China, Mongolia and then Ukraine. Russia's land borders with non-NATO countries dwarf those of NATO countries. 12,577 miles altogether. 
NATO members: 872 miles. Non-NATO members: 11,704 miles. 

Putin's true agenda is to restore the USSR to what it was before parts of it disintegrated in the early 1990s. The countries that split off have very little interest in becoming absorbed and fear being the next Crimea, which Russia invaded and annexed in 2004. 

If countries in Russia's neighborhood felt they had nothing to fear from Russia, they wouldn't be so eager to join NATO.


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## Lawrence00 (Oct 7, 2022)

Nah, the architects of this proxy war will want to spend some of their profits. They'll shut it down.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 7, 2022)

To you guys who think the Russia-Ukraine war was designed by the super rich or whatever; only Putin had the personal motive and desire to invade Ukraine.

Every war I can think of had its profiteers, but wars are extremely expensive, especially today. So they aren't only about politics or power and submission, there's always an economic element. 

If the 3 to 5 global economic powerhouses are pulling the strings, then why isn't Africa the financial hub of the world and everyone's first choice, ultimate vacation destination?


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## Been There (Oct 7, 2022)

One last thing, on Thursday Biden stated that Armageddon is not just a maybe if Russia turns on the heaters (nukes). The government ordered $290 million in radiation sickness drugs. None of this gives me confidence that “it’s just all talk.” If Russia and the U.S would fight a nuclear war, that alone doesn’t necessarily mean the end of the world or Armageddon as Biden calls it.


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## SeniorBen (Oct 7, 2022)

The U.S. has nuclear weapons all over Europe, as do the individual European countries. We could strike Russia in less than a minute, whereas Russia, to attack the U.S., their missiles need to cross an ocean. It would take at least 30 minutes to reach the U.S.
Advantage U.S.


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## Lawrence (Oct 8, 2022)

I suppose the safest place to be would in the south hemisphere, the bottom of the world you see. The least amount of nuclear fallout may be there, for the top of the world would be blown to smithereens. Perhaps mother nature made this plan, maybe it could be called the master fail safe plan.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Oct 8, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> The U.S. has nuclear weapons all over Europe, as do the individual European countries. We could strike Russia in less than a minute, whereas Russia, to attack the U.S., their missiles need to cross an ocean. It would take at least 30 minutes to reach the U.S.
> Advantage U.S.


That ocean would be the Arctic Ocean, not to mention... just as we have submarines moving about the Barents Sea, the Russians have submarines off the U.S. coasts. Also, it should be mentioned, the distance from our European Allies to Russia is the exact same distance as the distance from Russia to our European Allies.


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## Warrigal (Oct 8, 2022)

Lawrence said:


> I suppose the safest place to be would in the south hemisphere, the bottom of the world you see. The least amount of nuclear fallout may be there, for the top of the world would be blown to smithereens. Perhaps mother nature made this plan, maybe it could be called the master fail safe plan.


Also, because of the way the atmospheric systems operate, there is very little interchange of pollutants across the equator. However, there is no reason why Australia could not be a target. We are pretty vital to global satellite communications and have bases in the Northern Territory that gather important intel. 

If that happens we could expect our own radiation clouds.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Oct 8, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> Also, because of the way the atmospheric systems operate, there is very little interchange of pollutants across the equator. However, there is no reason why Australia could not be a target. We are pretty vital to global satellite communications and have bases in the Northern Territory that gather important intel.
> 
> If that happens we could expect our own radiation clouds.


You would be describing an high altitude air burst (EMP), to disable electronics. Such bursts have minimal fallout, which in Australia's region would fall into the Indian Ocean. Then there is the matter of type of radiation from ground bursts, which result in the most radioactive fallout, mixed with massive dust clouds. 

Humans have tested more than 2,000 nuclear weapons since Japan. A lot has been learned from these tests, imo.


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## Warrigal (Oct 8, 2022)

Australia is not a nuclear country. We only have one small Hi Far reactor that is used for research, and to make isotopes for medical treatments. I doubt that Russia would waste nuclear armed missiles on us but Kim Jong Un is as mad as a cut snake and might want to make a point to the US by showing how far he could lob one.


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## FastTrax (Oct 8, 2022)

Our Minutemen III's and the Russian Sarmats will be waving at each other as they fly over the Polar Cap.


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## David777 (Oct 8, 2022)

As I mentioned earlier, all this *nuclear hysteria* is being fanned by war mongers apparently on social media after that inflamatory speech by B about how the clock is closer to WWIII than any time since the Cuban Missle Crisis.  Probably after advisement of his two top neocons Bl and Nu that seem to have played key rolls getting us into this proxy war disaster and are likely now advising Zelensky about the need to punish Putin.  Yesterday one news story related a Pentagon spokesman had to finally step in saying there is no evidence Russia is moving nuclear weapons or readying them.  Read the full Google News refutation on this link beyond these snippets:

https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-nuclear-putin-russia-war-pre-emptive-1749781

_Moscow reacted strongly to the supposed call by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky about how to deter Russia from using nuclear weapons in the war in Ukraine. With the world on tenterhooks over whether Vladimir Putin might resort to non-conventional arms in Ukraine to turn around his faltering invasion, Zelensky described how "preventative strikes" were a disincentive for such atomic weapons. Russian officials condemned the comments, with Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, telling RIA Novosti that they were "nothing more than a call to start a world war with unpredictable, monstrous consequences."...

During a remote address to Australia's Lowy Institute on Thursday, Zelensky said NATO must make it impossible for Russia to use nuclear weapons in the war. He was asked about whether he believed if the likelihood of the use of Russian nuclear weapons against Ukraine has risen, and what more NATO needed to do to deter Russia from using nuclear weapons.  Zelensky replied that NATO should "eliminate the possibility of Russia using nuclear weapons."

Last month, Putin had warned that the Russian military would "use all the means at our disposal" in Ukraine to "protect Russia and our people" suggesting that the use of nuclear weapons was "not a bluff." But Russian state media reports of Zelensky's comments have emphasized the Kremlin's official position that it "has no plans to use nuclear weapons."  "Putin emphasized that there can be no winners in a nuclear war. Russia's detractors should know that it has such weapons, but Moscow does not threaten anyone," RIA reported._


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## rgp (Oct 8, 2022)

Georgiagranny said:


> I've only skimmed the responses, but here's what I have to say: I'm not going to waste a single second of what's left of my life worrying about whether Putin is going to use nukes. What good does it do to worry about it? He might. He might not.



 Exactly ....... and if he does ...... good chance we may never know. 

 Essentially the world as we know it will just end.


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## Timewise 60+ (Oct 8, 2022)

Just remember, that for the first time in World History, if some lunatic decides to start a nuclear war, that guy is not assured of his own survival!  Even crazy guys who start wars want to survive...that's a big deal!  Accordingly, I think it is unlikely this will happen...


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## squatting dog (Oct 8, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Just remember, that for the first time in World History, if some lunatic decides to start a nuclear war, that guy is not assured of his own survival!  Even crazy guys who start wars want to survive...that's a big deal!  Accordingly, I think it is unlikely this will happen...


I don't know... after all, the true meaning of crazy:
*mentally deranged; demented; insane*. Informal. unpredictable, nonconforming, or odd:
Tough nut when dealing with insanity.


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## FastTrax (Oct 8, 2022)

IMHO one no longer has to be a military strategist to know that in every friend or foe, ally or antagonist conflict involving anything on this planet our military has, does now and always will have boots on the ground in very close proximity to whomever has the most to lose or gain depending on the favored outcome. Some of those boots are publicly referred to as military advisors. Some of these boots are believed to have had their military records scrubbed and slipped into the regime as private military contractors. Don't know if that's even possible but one never knows.


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## Been There (Oct 8, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> The U.S. has nuclear weapons all over Europe, as do the individual European countries. We could strike Russia in less than a minute, whereas Russia, to attack the U.S., their missiles need to cross an ocean. It would take at least 30 minutes to reach the U.S.
> Advantage U.S.


Conventional nuclear weapons launched from Russia, yes, but, how about if a Russian Sukhoi Su-57 stealth fighter bomber would be bound for the U.S., would we be able to detect it before it launched it’s nuclear missiles or bombs and would it make it to our coastline before or without detection? Or, how about if a Russian submarine would be able to get close enough to the U.S.before launching its nuclear payload. Surely you would have to believe that it may be possible to strike us before we even opened our silos. Scary stuff.


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## kenfrombaltimore (Oct 8, 2022)

If it is any comfort, General Petraeus believe that the nuclear Armageddon threat is incipient rather than immanent.


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## dseag2 (Oct 8, 2022)

I will share this video.  I love this guy.  IMO he is so tuned in.


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## Jackie23 (Oct 9, 2022)

Beau....a voice of reason.


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## C50 (Oct 9, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> My biggest fear is that the world will be destroyed before I finish building the shoe-rack/entryway table I'm currently working on. I have about another ten hours of work on it before I apply the finish, so maybe another 12 hours until completion.
> 
> Hmmm... what holds up better when exposed to radiation... varnish or poly? It doesn't say on the cans.



I would go with Linseed oil for that deep glow finish.  Then when the nukes hit and the heat washes over it will really bake that oil into the wood!


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## StarSong (Oct 9, 2022)

Thanks for that video, @dseag2.


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