# Manchester



## Wintermint (May 23, 2017)

England's 'second city', an hour away from me last night. A terrorist bomb and 22 people killed, some of them children.

Such evil. When will it end?


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## Shalimar (May 23, 2017)

My deepest condolences wintermint. Beyond sad. I have no more words.


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## Warrigal (May 23, 2017)

It's every parents' nightmare and that is how terrorists get to us. If we refuse to be intimidated by bombs on trains they up the ante to kill kids at school or at a concert.

So far away in Australia all I can to is weep with my fellow humans and think how much I love all of the wonderful Brits who rushed in to help and to take care of the traumatised youngsters. Respect.


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## Mike (May 23, 2017)

Absolutely dreadful, so many cut down before their life began.

Why did the authorities shut down all public transport leaving
thousands stranded in a big city, many young girls on their own?

Mike.


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## Warrigal (May 23, 2017)

Terrorists often plan a rapid follow up attack to get people fleeing from the initial blast.
It is probably a standard precaution these days.


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## exwisehe (May 23, 2017)

Heartbreaking! Can't watch the news without sobbing. Especially the young ones 8 or 10 years old.  They are exuberant, joyful, excited, full of life. How can anyone even think of harming one so innocent?  I can't comprehend it.

Whoever planned such evil deserves to have his life taken away.  They do not deserve to live on this planet.  Truly, the scriptures are right: "_It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble_."

I hope he gets what justice dictates, and my God have mercy on his soul, because on earth no one else can have any mercy, I don't think.


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## Shalimar (May 23, 2017)

Second victim identified as an eight year old girl. This mother's heart weeps.


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## Wayne (May 23, 2017)

Seems like that peaceful bunch has struck again, the wrong country or place gets hit we could see a possibly improvement but many will suffer when we do so from it. This act sure is no surprise more will follow. As noticed very special targets are selected here and elsewhere offering the least chance of defense from victims.


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## itsjustme (May 23, 2017)

Tragic, my heartfelt sympathy to the U.K.

Just noting that is is a whole new level of evil that has targeted children.


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## Lara (May 23, 2017)

I cried this morning when I watched a mother on TV expressing her fear and desperation over not having heard from her daughter, her phone not responding, authorities unable to give her answers at this time....the young, the innocent, the families of this horrible act of evil terrorism....it's hard to grasp. I stand with all of our UK friends in sharing your overwhelming grief. "We've got to do better. We've got to love one another" .


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## RadishRose (May 23, 2017)

Heartbreaking!


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## SeaBreeze (May 23, 2017)

My heart goes out to all who were targeted by terrorism once again.  My sympathy to all the victims and their families, may the dead rest peacefully.


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## WhatInThe (May 23, 2017)

Kids going to a concert???? 

RIP those killed and speed recovery to the survivors & families


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## Camper6 (May 23, 2017)

And these are the type of people you are importing into the country that would do this?

Why?  It won't be long before a similar event takes place in Canada.


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## Wintermint (May 23, 2017)

Thanks for all the responses and kind words. A couple of follow-ups.         	
*exwisehe*: The terrorist blew himself up with the bomb. My only regret is that he isn't aware that he hasn't gone to paradise.

*Camper6: *The police have identified the bomber, though they haven't released his name. They have however said he was a British citizen. So not a case of 'importing'.


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## Wintermint (May 23, 2017)

They have named the bomber - Salman Abedi  - born in Manchester.


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## Wayne (May 23, 2017)

Do they know where the explosives came from? Home made?


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## chic (May 23, 2017)

My condolences to the families of the victims and well wishes to everyone in the U.K. 

Peace - Chic


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## jujube (May 23, 2017)

Every mother's worst dream.  I'm crying for Manchester.


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## Don M. (May 23, 2017)

It seems that most of the terrorist acts that have taken place in Europe, in recent years, have been committed by citizens, or long term residents, of those nations.  The "vetting" of refugees is not going to do much to stop these tragedies, if they are being committed by disenchanted and brainwashed members of the present populations.  ISIS has no need to infiltrate a western nation, so long as it can continue to convert people into terrorists, via Social Media, etc.


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## RadishRose (May 23, 2017)

Another suspect is in custody, British-born, I haven't heard the name yet. I understand your point about "vetting " Don, but I don't think it should stop at this point in time.


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## Butterfly (May 23, 2017)

RadishRose said:


> Another suspect is in custody, British-born, I haven't heard the name yet. I understand your point about "vetting " Don, but I don't think it should stop at this point in time.



Absolutely!  If it stops even one bombing or other attack, it is well worth it.


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## LinuxCat (May 23, 2017)

I also live a short drive away from Manchester.
I am still having difficulty taking it in. 
I find it impossible to understand how innocent children can be targeted in such a manner. 

It is unmanly and unholy - _Jihad my arse!
_


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## WhatInThe (May 24, 2017)

The suspect was born in the UK of Lybian parents. More important he traveled to Libya and Syria which should've sent off 10 red flags. He was on a list or known to intelligence officials. They say the bomb needed more than homemade internet instructions. One expert said homemade bombs are extremely dangerous, so dangerous that terrorists have been known to rent or buy separate apts & houses just to make bombs. Father arrested today in Libya.

http://thepoliticalinsider.com/manchester-terrorist-travel-libya-syria/

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/05/...sticated-almost-impossible-bomber-didnt-help/

It should be noted several US attackers also traveled overseas with a year or two of their attack right into the heart of radical Islam. Somethings besides 'training' is happening on those trips.


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## Wintermint (May 24, 2017)

Interestingly his father was part of the anti Gaddafi movement - part of the 'Arab Spring' so many western politicians had such high (and fruitless) hopes for. He supported a Muslim Libya it seems, fled to the UK because of oppression by the Gadhafi thugdom (only recently at the time an ally of the west) and then had a son who seems to have become radicalised and decided that bombing kids was somehow a good thing to do.

The stories are complex, interwoven and are not served well by knee jerk jingoistic responses.


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## Don M. (May 24, 2017)

RadishRose said:


> Another suspect is in custody, British-born, I haven't heard the name yet. I understand your point about "vetting " Don, but I don't think it should stop at this point in time.



Yes, this "vetting" of refugees MUST be continued, and even expanded....But, if recent events are any indicator, the biggest threat is coming from "citizens" who have become radicalized.  It appears that the British police have been watching this latest Terrorist, but apparently their present tactics were insufficient to stop him in time.  If the events in Europe, in the past couple of years, are any indicator...the time to put some of this "political correctness" on the shelf, and beginning to make life difficult for those on these Watch lists is long overdue.


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## Butterfly (May 25, 2017)

It's not very PC, Don, but I agree wholeheartedly.


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## Wintermint (May 25, 2017)

There are huge practical difficulties in keeping an eye on potential terrorists - sheer numbers. I just had the BBC radio news on and their 'security correspondent' made that point and added 'if the general public knew how many people ae out there who are a potential danger they would not sleep well at nights'.


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## Bee (May 25, 2017)

The U.K. police are not happy with the U.S. media.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40040210


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## WhatInThe (May 25, 2017)

Bee said:


> The U.K. police are not happy with the U.S. media.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40040210



Actually US intelligence officials for leaking it to the media. The US treats crime and information different so I don't think officials or media thought twice about releasing or using the information. Doesn't make it right but it's 'accepted' in the US.


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## Bee (May 25, 2017)

No it isn't right, it could have jeopardised our security forces enquiries to release information to the public before our security forces were ready to release it.

This is the latest....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40048565


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## Wintermint (May 25, 2017)

WhatInThe said:


> Actually US intelligence officials for leaking it to the media. The US treats crime and information different so I don't think officials or media thought twice about releasing or using the information. Doesn't make it right but it's 'accepted' in the US.



It is amongst other things, about timing. The police have knocked on a good number of doors as a follow up. The damned leaks mean some of those who might have had something to worry about had time to ditch evidence or even move. It comes over as pretty dumb besides anything else.


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## WhatInThe (May 25, 2017)

Wintermint said:


> It is amongst other things, about timing. The police have knocked on a good number of doors as a follow up. The damned leaks mean some of those who might have had something to worry about had time to ditch evidence or even move. It comes over as pretty dumb besides anything else.



I agree to a point but once the police have raided the suspect's home I think the neighbors have a pretty good idea why the police are there and if they are a conspirator they are probably well ahead of the reporting or know what to do once the police are there. I saw a photo with over 1/2 dozen police waiting single file on the building's side preparing for entry. I think anyone in the house or with in sight of the raid know what is going on. 

Most police would also assume the suspect would try to get rid of evidence hence the control of information but they also know once a raid or arrest starts they will still try to dump evidence or think of a story until physically captured.


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## Bee (May 25, 2017)

So what are you saying, that it is alright for the Americans to make leaks in the media, and then jeopardise the work of our security forces....why on earth do you think they were so angry about these leaks???


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## Knight (May 25, 2017)

Leaks and the media or journalists right to deny who leaked the info need to be revisited. 

IMO when it comes to leaks affecting national security of any country, the source should be found out.


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## Don M. (May 25, 2017)

The UK has stopped sharing data with the U.S., after all these leaks....and probably rightly so.

www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-manchester-idUSKBN18L0QU


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## Bee (May 25, 2017)

Thankyou to Knight and Don for understanding what I have been posting.


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## WhatInThe (May 25, 2017)

Bee said:


> So what are you saying, that it is alright for the Americans to make leaks in the media, and then jeopardise the work of our security forces....why on earth do you think they were so angry about these leaks???



Leaks are a problem in the US too but are "accepted" a little differently. But still a problem. Information should have been withheld until after the raid of the suspect's house at least. And the UK did the right thing cutting it off to make their point.

 But leaks have been used for years to make information public because that's they only way information gets out in many instances. At times it's a fine line between controlling and/or withholding information period which is frowned upon. In the US the government withholding information is viewed poorly and with skepticism. This is why organizations like the New York Times gobbled the leak right up. Again it wasn't necessarily right and have been in trouble in the past themselves going back to the Pentagon Papers.

One would hope those possessing leaked information would know when to use it like a few days after things settled down and the preliminary on site in person investigation is over. But that's not the case. Maybe in the US the citizens and authorities are more used to things like crime, investigations, raids, chases etc.


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## Warrigal (May 25, 2017)

I don't know what happens today but there was a time when the authorities would brief the press on sensitive matters with an embargo on publication. After the embargo was lifted the press was free to write the story in detail. The journalists did not need to winkle information out of leakers. 

I have no idea what the agreements are between the various police and security organisations of different countries but this current situation needs to be examined. Otherwise the flow of important information will dry up for lack of trust.


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## Camper6 (May 25, 2017)

Wintermint said:


> Thanks for all the responses and kind words. A couple of follow-ups.
> *exwisehe*: The terrorist blew himself up with the bomb. My only regret is that he isn't aware that he hasn't gone to paradise.
> 
> *Camper6: *The police have identified the bomber, though they haven't released his name. They have however said he was a British citizen. So not a case of 'importing'.



Parents imports from Libya. Born in Manchester under the sign of Mohammed or something.

My point is Canada. So proud to be importing from the Middle East.

Sorry I don't trust their religion. Importing a problem.


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## Lara (May 25, 2017)

The terrorist made multiple trips to and from Libya and Syria in recent years. I've noticed all of the "homegrown" terrorists have middle eastern names except Timothy McVeigh of the Oklahoma bombing. And they all have ties to to a terrorist group of one kind or another but all believe in jihad and in the name of allah.


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## Shalimar (May 25, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Parents imports from Libya. Born in Manchester under the sign of Mohammed or something.
> 
> My point is Canada. So proud to be importing from the Middle East.
> 
> Sorry I don't trust their religion. Importing a problem.


As a Canadian, I respectfully disagree. I work with Middle Eastern refugees on a regular basis.  It is important to realise that heinous as this terrorist attack on Manchester was, as are all such attacks, the people who have 

been the most often targeted by these extremists are other Muslims. If we allow these hideous events to steal our humanity, then Daesh/Isil has already won.


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## Lara (May 25, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> As a Canadian, I respectfully disagree. I work with Middle Eastern refugees on a regular basis.  It is important to realise that heinous as this terrorist attack on Manchester was, as are all such attacks, the people who have been the most often targeted by these extremists are other Muslims. If we allow these hideous events to steal our humanity, then Daesh/Isil has already won.


Targeting Muslims? Did you mean to say Christians? Jihad is all about killing those who don't believe in Allah and the Koran. What they really want is for Christians to declare war against them. It's really irritating them that that hasn't happened nor will it. Of course there's also those terrorists who are not particular about who they kill....just create terror and die a martyr's death as was the case in Manchester.


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## Shalimar (May 25, 2017)

Lara said:


> Targeting Muslims? Did you mean to say Christians? Jihad is all about killing those who don't believe in Allah and the Koran. What they really want is for Christians to declare war against them. It's really irritating them that that hasn't happened nor will it. Of course there's also those terrorists who are not particular about who they kill....just create terror and die a martyr's death as was the case in Manchester.


Many of my clients are Muslim refugees escaping the horrors of war, some have lived under the dominion of Muslim extremists, many losing friends and family as a result. Others are Yazidi, oh what horrors they have lived through. By no means are Christians the only people targeted. I recall the Jordanian pilot burned alive by Isil. He was Muslim.


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## Lara (May 25, 2017)

Lara said:
			
		

> Jihad is all about killing those who don't believe in Allah and the Koran....Of course there's also those terrorists who are not particular about who they kill....just create terror and die a martyr's death as was the case in Manchester.





Shalimar said:


> By no means are Christians the only people targeted. I recall the Jordanian pilot burned alive by Isil. He was Muslim.


But the pilot wasn't burned alive by ISIS because he was Muslim. The reason was because his plane crashed in their space, he was captured, and killed in order to to get media coverage. But Christians are being persecuted and killed for being Christians...and I mentioned that ISIS isn't always particular about who they kill as long as it creates terror and gets media coverage.


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## Butterfly (May 25, 2017)

Bee said:


> Thankyou to Knight and Don for understanding what I have been posting.



I agree with you, Bee.  If you share information with a friend expecting it to remain private, and then they blab it to the whole world, you stop sharing information with that friend.  It's a betrayal of trust.  If we can't get a handle on these leaks, nobody in the world is going to share anything with us.


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## Shalimar (May 26, 2017)

Lara said:


> But the pilot wasn't burned alive by ISIS because he was Muslim. The reason was because his plane crashed in their space, he was captured, and killed in order to to get media coverage. But Christians are being persecuted and killed for being Christians...and I mentioned that ISIS isn't always particular about who they kill as long as it creates terror and gets media coverage.


I think we may always have a difference of  perspective regarding this issue. No worries, have a lovely day.


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## Camper6 (May 26, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> As a Canadian, I respectfully disagree. I work with Middle Eastern refugees on a regular basis.  It is important to realise that heinous as this terrorist attack on Manchester was, as are all such attacks, the people who have
> 
> been the most often targeted by these extremists are other Muslims. If we allow these hideous events to steal our humanity, then Daesh/Isil has already won.



Shalimar:  I don't agree with your statement that these extremists target Muslims. That's pretty obvious in Manchester.

We are allowing these hideous events to steal our humanity.  That's the intent and it's working.

Look at the Boston Marathon bombing.  Plots are foiled in Canada.  It won't be long before they are not foiled.

The other thing I see is that the leaders of the Muslim community don't speak out enough condemning the attacks.

I guess they are afraid to because they will be attacked.


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## Wintermint (May 26, 2017)

Lara takes the easy jingoistic view and is, as so often, dead wrong. ISIS is not about submitting to Islam. It is about submitting to ISIS or die. Their version of Islam is simply and extreme one - just as Christianity has in the past had its extreme zealots (think k of the Crusades). Nobody wants ISIS gone more than the average Muslim. Arounf 90% of all terrorist victims are Muslims.

I am no fan of Islam. It is an oppressive religion - probably more so than Christianity and its writings are anti all other religions. But facts are facts and the average Muslim is not interested in overthrowing the west. If you are going to pick on Muslims because most ISIS related terrorism is perpetrated by them, you might as well bar all males from entering your country - the majority of terrorists are after all male. It is the same crude approach.

According to a 2009 report published by the Counter Terrorism Center at the United States Military Academy at West Point, Al-Qaeda kills over seven times more Muslims than non-Muslims.

The UN reported last year that Muslims are the largest victims of ISIS in Iraq.

In 2013, the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism’s Global Terrorism Database –  joint government-university program on terrorism, hosted at the University of Maryland noted that between 2004 and 2013, about half of all terrorist attacks, and 60% of fatalities due to terrorist attacks, took place in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan – all of which have a mostly Muslim population.

Your own government security organisations compile and accept such statistics.


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## Warrigal (May 26, 2017)

Before you can have any hope of defeating your enemy, you must first study your enemy and do it with eyes wide open. False narratives will not help you to win.

I remember that our Australian soldiers were fed the propaganda that Japanese troops were poorly trained and physically inferior, and would thus be easily defeated. They weren't. 

IMO al Qaeda and ISIS attack the west to stimulate recruitment in countries that they hope to over run. For the most part they are countries where there are a majority of Muslims such as Indonesia, Pakistan and various ME countries. They mostly use recruits from the west as disposable soldiers in the east.


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## Lara (May 26, 2017)

Wintermint said:
			
		

> Lara takes the easy jingoistic view and is, as so often, dead wrong.


Was that really necessary? I believe you're just trying to puff yourself up. I've seen you play your "jingoistic" card on other members here, and after reading your post and finding it riddled with misunderstandings as to what I posted, I find that you use the sensationalized "jingo" word because you're not reading member's words carefully.


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## Bee (May 26, 2017)

Some of you posters may be interested in this that I posted on another forum after some members were complaining that Muslim leaders never speak out in Australia, in my opinion I believe the   Iman was very brave, realistic, honest and truthful in what he said.

au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/35632786/manchester-bombing-australian-muslim-leaders-clash-over-terrorists-motive/#page1

The following was the reply I received........

_ Imam Tawhidi from South Australia has been the lone voice of the Muslim community. He and his family have received Death threats and WORSE, because of his condemnation of other Muslim leaders not speaking out . One of the most recent warning he gave the Australian Government was the move by certain Muslims To form a Muslim State Governed by Sharia law within Australia 


_


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## Lara (May 26, 2017)

Bee said:
			
		

> The following was the reply I received..._One of the most recent warning he gave the Australian Government was the move by certain Muslims To form a Muslim State Governed by Sharia law within Australia_


 I read a list of Sharia Laws and that is some scary s***!


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## beneDictus (May 26, 2017)

...That`s right.. British born, who was allowed to become ''radicalised''...Just as the perpetrators of the London bombings of 2005 were. Their ''controllers'' ordered THEM to carry out their evil deed, as well. The authorities HAVE to find these ''controllers'', and as quickly as possible. The hunt for them must continue day and night, without slackening off. It would probably be a good idea to begin with investigating all Mullahs of mosques who are known to preach ''hate'' sermons, thereby indicating their tacit support for terrorist groups...
  Because, if the source isn`t eradicated, it will surely happen again...and keep on happening.


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## beneDictus (May 26, 2017)

...If THAT should ever look like happening..(God forbid...), i think that the majority of the Australian people would be very much against it. It`s the ''weak'' government, with its propensity for allowing it to come about, which i would be most concerned with...


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## Bee (May 26, 2017)

Mmmm interesting, no comment on what Sheikh, Imam Mohammed Tawhidi had to say.


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## Wintermint (May 26, 2017)

I was perhaps being overly personal and if so I apologise. However to suggest my response was incorrect because I didn't understand what you really said and meant is a classic Trump response. If you don't like it change the reality. We both know what you said.



Lara said:


> Was that really necessary? I believe you're just trying to puff yourself up. I've seen you play your "jingoistic" card on other members here, and after reading your post and finding it riddled with misunderstandings as to what I posted, I find that you use the sensationalized "jingo" word because you're not reading member's words carefully.


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## Bee (May 26, 2017)

There is Sharia Law in this country but it still has to be within the confines of English law, it is used mainly for civil cases such as divorce etc etc, we also have Beth Din (Jewish) law which has been practised in this country for years and years, this is also for civil cases such as divorce etc etc

Both laws are very very similar especially where woman are concerned regarding divorce...in fact there are a lot of similarities between the Orthox Jew and the True Muslim.


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## Wintermint (May 26, 2017)

Neither have legal standing though and is superseded by British law if there is a dispute.


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## Camper6 (May 26, 2017)

Bee said:


> There is Sharia Law in this country but it still has to be within the confines of English law, it is used mainly for civil cases such as divorce etc etc, we also have Beth Din (Jewish) law which has been practised in this country for years and years, this is also for civil cases such as divorce etc etc
> 
> Both laws are very very similar especially where woman are concerned regarding divorce...in fact there are a lot of similarities between the Orthox Jew and the True Muslim.



That's a mistake.  One law for all is the way it should be. You are either a country with laws that cover all citizens or you re not.


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## Wintermint (May 26, 2017)

Sharia is used by some communities to manage disputes, but it has no legal standing under British law. It is more like subscribing by agreement to a set of rules. British law is the only real, actual and valid law in Britain. There are numerous examples of people - usually women, perhaps understandably given their status generally speaking under Islam, who resort to real courts in the end.


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## Tabitha (May 26, 2017)

*Manchester.*

What do you think of the horrible attack on Manchester? I find it frightening. The perpetrator was known to the police. The troops have been called in and they are visibly armed.


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## Robusta (May 26, 2017)

Of course it is horrible. There is nothing that can be done or said.  Until there is a change of heart in the radicals beliefs these things will continue.  Any effort to eradicate these types only breeds more.  

The only measure I can take is to protect me and mine,by being ever vigilant and staying away from crowded venues.

I wish I could do more, but there are thousands of folks much smarter and better informed than I working on it.


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## Pam (May 27, 2017)

I saw armed police when I walked through town yesterday... that's a sight I never thought I'd see.


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## Shalimar (May 27, 2017)

Pam said:


> I saw armed police when I walked through town yesterday... that's a sight I never thought I'd see.


That must have been a shock.


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## Wintermint (May 27, 2017)

My partner went up to our town centre for a small works outing in our pub/club area. This is a very small city but there were police with automatic weapons on the street. 

Americans might find it hard to appreciate how wrong that feels here, even if it was deemed good for public confidence - the purpose of it after all..


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## Bee (May 27, 2017)

Terror threat reduced.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40069959


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## Bee (May 27, 2017)

In my area there will still be armed police on patrol also armed police water patrol boats until after the Bank Holiday week end.


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## Pam (May 27, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> That must have been a shock.



Yes, it was a bit! I knew there was to be increased security around the shipyard (nuclear subs built here) but wasn't expecting to see armed officers in town. However, the shipyard is only a couple of minutes walk away so....


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## Wayne (May 27, 2017)

Would you wish to be on patrol looking for those who may kill you un armed?
If encountered do you thing a severe tongue lashing would subdue them? Those willing to die for a cause don't play dumb games.

No offence to any other country just from a lifetime in the military.


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## Wintermint (May 27, 2017)

You are jumping to conclusions. Nobody suggested they should not be armed. It is probably an unpleasant necessity and certainly a bit of a shock to us here in the UK. Just because violence seems to be the default reaction to anything out of the ordinary in America does not mean the rest of the world takes the same approach.



Wayne said:


> Would you wish to be on patrol looking for those who may kill you un armed?
> If encountered do you thing a severe tongue lashing would subdue them? Those willing to die for a cause don't play dumb games.
> 
> No offence to any other country just from a lifetime in the military.


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## Wayne (May 27, 2017)

UK was attacked sir by an enemy, with that in mind what would be the right thing to do in your thoughts ?

Want to be it will happen again?


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## Wintermint (May 27, 2017)

I'm sorry but I don't think I understand the question. We are responding in the correct way I think. 



Wayne said:


> UK was attacked sir by an enemy, with that in mind what would be the right thing to do in your thoughts ?
> 
> Want to be it will happen again?


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## Trade (May 27, 2017)

On any given day about 100 people more or less die in traffic accidents in the U.S. And hardly anybody blinks an eye. The way I figure it I'm at least 10,000 times as likely to get scrubbed by getting T-boned by a soccer mom in an SUV at one of the intersections between my house and the grocery store than I am of getting blown up by a terrorist. So I prioritize the precautionary measures I take accordingly.


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## Wayne (May 27, 2017)

agree there but never discard that possibility and was referring to the UK not US


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## Lara (May 27, 2017)

Wintermint said:


> My partner went up to our town centre....This is a very small city but there were police with automatic weapons on the street.
> Americans might find it hard to appreciate how wrong that feels here, even if it was deemed good for public confidence - the purpose of it after all..





			
				Wintermint said:
			
		

> Just because violence seems to be the default reaction to anything out of the ordinary in America does not mean the rest of the world takes the same approach.


Oh, for the love of God. This thread is about Manchester. Why do you have to drag America into your bash-America mentality everywhere you post. Sorry, but it's so redundant, arrogant, rude, and wrong. I've lived 67 years in America and have never seen "police with automatic weapons in the street". Sure, it happens where there is a terrorist attack going on but not a "reaction to everything". Have you ever been here or are you just a media groupie with attitude? Sorry, I'm trying to contain myself but it's so annoying. Oh, if you come here, don't go to Chicago lol.


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## WhatInThe (May 27, 2017)

Pam said:


> I saw armed police when I walked through town yesterday... that's a sight I never thought I'd see.



What was it like when the IRA used bombs in the UK/near your town? More military and armed police? I guess people in the US are more accustomed to armed police.

 If shooting starts duck, no joke but duck and/or seek cover behind a solid object, it's not just about hiding although that can work to. Or be prepared to flee to escape an attacker. Situational awareness is your best weapon. Attention to detail and be thinking a few steps ahead.

Fear is the terrorist goal. Don't let yourself be unnerved.


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## Wintermint (May 27, 2017)

Well you are being very personal and your anger if palpable. I don't associate my identity with my nationality in the way you seem to. Perhaps that's the problem you have. The right wing tend to be led by emotion and gut feeling rather than rationality after all. Perhaps you need a cup of tea.

The police on the streets are a reaction to the Manchester bombing - I started this thread and forums being what they are topics have a life of their own. 

I would appreciate a bit less in the way of personal attacks in the future by the way. 



Lara said:


> Oh, for the love of God. This thread is about Manchester. Why do you have to drag America into your bash-America mentality everywhere you post. Sorry, but it's so redundant, arrogant, rude, and wrong. I've lived 67 years in America and have never seen "police with automatic weapons in the street". Sure, it happens where there is an attack going on but not a "reaction to everything". Have you ever been here or are you just a media groupie with attitude? Sorry, I'm trying to contain myself but it's so annoying. Oh, if you come here, don't go to Chicago lol.


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## Lara (May 27, 2017)

Wintermint, I'm not even going to quote your post nor bother to reply. It's just all wrong and you know it. I already had my "no caffeine" organic herbal tea thank you.


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## Wintermint (May 27, 2017)

I apologise for goading you..admittedly with some glee. I am sure you are a wonderful person but sadly I abhor your politics so we had better just beg to differ and leave it at that.



Wintermint said:


> Well you are being very personal and your anger if palpable. I don't associate my identity with my nationality in the way you seem to. Perhaps that's the problem you have. The right wing tend to be led by emotion and gut feeling rather than rationality after all. Perhaps you need a cup of tea.
> 
> The police on the streets are a reaction to the Manchester bombing - I started this thread and forums being what they are topics have a life of their own.
> 
> I would appreciate a bit less in the way of personal attacks in the future by the way.


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## Lara (May 27, 2017)

Thank you for the apology but you're not goading me. You're goading all Americans. "...with glee" you say? Read 1Corinthians 13: 4, 5, 6, and 7


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## Pam (May 27, 2017)

Wayne said:


> Would you wish to be on patrol looking for those who may kill you un armed?
> If encountered do you thing a severe tongue lashing would subdue them? Those willing to die for a cause don't play dumb games.
> 
> No offence to any other country just from a lifetime in the military.



No real need for your sarcastic questions as I was only pointing out how alien it was to see armed officers patrolling my town.


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## Warrigal (May 27, 2017)

Hoping to take a little heat out of the current discussion, I am about to go down to church and we will be discussing these events with the older Sunday School children. I'm sure that they are unnerved by such events as happened in Manchester even though the chance of them being caught up in similar atrocities over here are miniscule. 

It is the start of  Ramadan as well as Ascension Sunday and a very tricky topic for a lesson. I want to assure them that they should not despair and lose hope. How do you think I should go about it? I do have a lesson in mind but I'll wait until this afternoon to let any interested know how it turned out.


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## Wayne (May 27, 2017)

Pam said:


> No real need for your sarcastic questions as I was only pointing out how alien it was to see armed officers patrolling my town.


 Originally Posted by *Wayne* 

				 Would you wish to be on patrol looking for those who may kill you un armed?
 If encountered do you thing a severe tongue lashing would subdue them? Those willing to die for a cause don't play dumb games.

 No offence to any other country just from a lifetime in the military.

I guess you did not read my last sentence, and yes if you were not used to it sure would be odd.


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## Eric (May 27, 2017)

Wayne said:


> UK was attacked sir by an enemy, with that in mind what would be the right thing to do in your thoughts ?
> 
> Want to be it will happen again?



It will happen again and again if we wake up we can control it to some degree. May was warned by her own police in 2015 but probably ignored the warning to be pc.

*'Attack them in their homes’ ISIS in twisted call for bloodshed during Ramadan*

*ISLAMIC State (ISIS) has called for attacks in Britain during the holy month of Ramadan, which starts tonight, after the Manchester bombing which killed 22 and maimed dozens more.

*The message specifically called for attacks in the US, Russia and across Europe, including Britain.

Among the top targets for the attacks, according to the message are “soldiers”, “the princes” and “ministers”.
Deluded fanboys of ISIS leader Abu Bakr-al Baghdadi called Ramadan the “month of jihad”.

A 12-minute rambling video delivers the message in Arabic with an English translation.
Express.co.uk has chosen not to reveal the location of the message, which also talks about immigration.
It claims “the tyrants on the island” have closed the door on immigration so should have the “door of Jihad opened in their faces”.
The twisted ISIS message says attacks on innocent children like the one in Manchester are “beloved”.

*http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...or-bloodshed-Ramadan-Fasting-UK-Attacks-Daesh*


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