# Polygamy



## Sunny (Nov 7, 2019)

I didn't want to hijack the thread about the Mormons in Mexico, but I have wondered about this for a long time. Why is polygamy so hated by many in the western world? After all, it exists in the Bible, and has continuously existed throughout human history. If people choose that lifestyle, who is it harming?  And why the intense feeling against it?

The TV series Big Love explored this subject in a very interesting way. Did anyone else watch it?


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## AnnieA (Nov 7, 2019)

I'm libertarian and pretty much don't care if someone wants to lead that lifestyle with multiple marriages with either sex.  Can see that it would be a tax, employee benefits and social security nightmare, though.


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## rgp (Nov 7, 2019)

Sunny said:


> I didn't want to hijack the thread about the Mormons in Mexico, but I have wondered about this for a long time. Why is polygamy so hated by many in the western world? After all, it exists in the Bible, and has continuously existed throughout human history. If people choose that lifestyle, who is it harming?  And why the intense feeling against it?
> 
> The TV series Big Love explored this subject in a very interesting way. Did anyone else watch it?



 I think the stumbling block is the marriage of the young girls to the elders @ an inappropriate age. 

 As for the adults, I agree.......do what ever it is they want.


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## RadishRose (Nov 7, 2019)

No, I didn't see that show but I have seen others.

These splinter groups who (illegally) practice polygamy incite jealousies not only among the wives but also the children. Incest is not unusual.

Fathers can't support all these kids usually, and then they go on welfare, beg and dumpster dive.
Their homes aren't usually like the nice places like on Sister Wives. They're often dumps, leaky trailers and the likes.

Women are brainwashed to believe if they break away they'll go to hell.  They're forced to marry old men who may also be uncles or first cousins.

No woman should be forced to marry, period.

Read about Warren Jeffs, for instance. He's in jail for life.

Teen aged males are often turned out to the streets on their own (the lost boys, they are called) so the old farts can have the younger girls.

I saw at least one escaped woman on a tv interview say these groups are not about religion as much as they are about sex.

Polygamy is illegal in Mexico too, but authorities look the other way like we used to do.

These splinter groups are NOT affiliated with the Church of LDS who obey the law.


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## Gary O' (Nov 7, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Why is polygamy so hated by many in the western world?


No bother, but it's definitely not for me
Have a good time keeping my lady happy...but five or six?
Hell, they'd gang up on me
It'd surely develop into some sorta 'hey, it's my turn' stamina thing


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 7, 2019)

As long as everyone involved is above the age of consent and they can afford to maintain multiple families without becoming a burden on the public it comes under the heading of none of my business.


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## jujube (Nov 7, 2019)

Polygamy had its place in ancient times, when there was an excess of women with no protection of marriage, i.e. after a war.  This also allowed more children per "family", which was needed to support a farm.

I don't have a problem with what consenting adults do (this does not include 13 year old girls).  I do have a problem when 7 of the 8 wives troop themselves (and their 25 children) down to the welfare office and claim to be single mothers.  You're either married or not......you can't be both.

I had a friend who was born into a polygamous family in Montana.  She has nothing good to say about it.


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## Pepper (Nov 7, 2019)

Some people object to Muslim women wearing the hijab & burka and being one amongst four wives. Others object to Mormon polygamy for similar reasons -- women are subservient in these societies. Just because one is consenting to their own subservience doesn't make it any different from what it is.


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## win231 (Nov 7, 2019)

I also couldn't care less about how people choose to live their lives....as long as children don't get hurt.
But in many such "families," child molesting is the norm.


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

Sunny said:


> I didn't want to hijack the thread about the Mormons in Mexico, but I have wondered about this for a long time. Why is polygamy so hated by many in the western world? After all, it exists in the Bible, and has continuously existed throughout human history. If people choose that lifestyle, who is it harming?  And why the intense feeling against it?
> 
> The TV series Big Love explored this subject in a very interesting way. Did anyone else watch it?


I wouldn't care if adults joined the lifestyle or if children were allowed to leave if they wanted to, but there's a lot of pressure against them leaving.  Sometimes the girls are married off at a very young age to men old enough to be their fathers.  And the older and wealthier men get their pick of the youngest and prettiest girls.  I'm sure there are exceptions to what I said but it's pretty much the norm in the cult.   Polygamy is no longer legal in the US but there are rogue cults that still practice it.  And the only reason in Utah that polygamy became illegal is because the law had to be met for Utah to be allowed into the Union.

Just because it existed in the bible does not make it right.   David and Solomon had hundreds of wives, why did they need so many wives?


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

A long time ago I watched a documentary but forgot most of the details, of course.

There were four wives and one of them was a lawyer, she was the main provider.  They asked her why.  She said the lifestyle provided most of her needs.  She didn't really like sex, didn't like to cook or housekeeping, wanted to be married and have sisters and a family.  The husband was over 50 for sure or maybe 60, scruffy looking, overweight, lazy and didn't do much.

There was also a young girl living in the house who had been ''given'' to the guy in marriage and they were waiting for her to reach 14 or 15 (I forget) so that he could marry her.  They asked him if he was looking forward to the wedding day and he got this creepy grin on his face.  YUCK!


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## Packerjohn (Nov 7, 2019)

I started watching "Big Love" a few years ago but gave it away.  For some reason I didn't like it.  Probably, the swearing which seems to be in demand these days in movies & TV series.


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## Pepper (Nov 7, 2019)

PVC said:


> David and Solomon had hundreds of wives, why did they need so many wives?


Conspicuous consumption.


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## Packerjohn (Nov 7, 2019)

Due to the fact that I am not a Mormon, I do not have a strong opinion on this subject.  To me, it's live & let live.  Each to their own.  Whatever turns their clock is alright with me as long as they don't hurt anyone.  However, a 50 year old man marrying a 16 year old girl!  Now, that's a hot potato that I ain't gonna touch!


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## Ken N Tx (Nov 7, 2019)

I don't think I ever heard of a woman with multiple husbands???


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## Lc jones (Nov 7, 2019)

It goes against my belief system as I’m a Christian, but I would imagine that there would be tremendous amounts of jealousy between the women. That could really affect the harmony in the household.


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## hollydolly (Nov 7, 2019)

Ken N Tx said:


> I don't think I ever heard of a woman with multiple husbands???


 Oh yes , it's called Polyandry  or to be Polyandrus, is to have more than one husband..and although not as common as the other way around, still quite well known despite being illegal.


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 7, 2019)

Ken N Tx said:


> I don't think I ever heard of a woman with multiple husbands???


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## Lc jones (Nov 7, 2019)

Aunt Bea said:


>


Amen


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> Oh yes , it's called Polyandry  or to be Polyandrus, is to have more than one husband..and although not as common as the other way around, still quite well known despite being illegal.


I've read that the oldest husband lays claims to all the children since it would be impossible to know for sure who fathered which child.


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

Aunt Bea said:


>


And can you imagine all the laundry and cooking and bed making she would have to do.


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

POLYANDRY =
Polyandry was common in areas of the world where resources such as land and food were scarce, but women were allowed to own property. It was at one time practiced in Tibet, but Chinese occupation outlawed the practice, though it still occurs in the Yunnan and Sichuan regions of China. It is still practiced in parts of Africa such as Kenya, Tanzania and Nigeria, as well as parts of South America and India.

Generally, where the practice was followed, a man who desired to marry a woman met with the woman's parents. If they came to an agreement, the man married the woman. If a second man also desired to marry the woman, he spoke with the woman's parents, and unless the first husband presented a dowry large enough to create a monogamous relationship, the second man also married the woman. The family then all lived in the same home.

The vast majority of polyandrous marriages involved a woman who married two or more brothers. Known as fraternal polyandry, this process was considered more stable than nonfraternal polyandry, the marriage of one woman to several non-related men. Two or more related men were more likely to care for all of the children of the relationship than men who had no familial ties to each other.


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## Gary O' (Nov 7, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> Oh yes , it's called Polyandry or to be Polyandrus, is to have more than one husband..and although not as common as the other way around, still quite well known despite being illegal.


I think they should change the name to polylaundry 
Poor lady


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## hollydolly (Nov 7, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> I think they should change the name to polylaundry
> Poor lady


 They must be gluttons for punishment these women...


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## Warrigal (Nov 7, 2019)

Ken N Tx said:


> I don't think I ever heard of a woman with multiple husbands???


It is rare but I have heard of tribes in mountainous regions of Asia where it is/was? practised. Poor men are not likely to be able to afford a bride so the solution is for one woman to become the wife of several brothers.


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## Pepper (Nov 7, 2019)

PVC
I know you are very smart and hate to be a schtickler (who am I kidding, I love to schtickle), but doesn't your post require a link?


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## Pepper (Nov 7, 2019)

Margaret Mead studied polyandry in Asia.  What a magnificent woman she was!


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## jerry old (Nov 7, 2019)

Our history of polygamy was the source of 'Male Children.'  Males to function
as primogenitures, warriors to protect their family, tribe, society, region.
A girl child was useless and a disappointment: see Greek, Roman History.
Jewish History-a male child highly sought for perpetuate of the family's history and being. A male child was encumbered with the continuation of the family. China, Japan..

Vikings, virtually all  civilizations of ancient times-male children were sought, valued, while female children were an addendum.

Sex, was a secondary activity to produce male's.
(Also, Hitler had his attempt to produce male children)

Wrong, right, ???  Our modern eyes say wrong, but we do not  have invaders
at the gates.  We have no walled cities in America-a product of a civilization
that does not fear their neighbors.

My opinion:  polygamy is nonsensical, no longer needed, stupid; placing females in a secondary role as a separate people.

Double RR's post in on target. 

( There is a site of Joseph Smith buying mummies and papyri, translating the papyri, at a time when no scholar could translate hieroglyphics: horse feathers
and nonsense.)


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

Pepper said:


> PVC
> I know you are very smart and hate to be a schtickler (who am I kidding, I love to schtickle), but doesn't your post require a link?


My apologies, Schtickler!  LOL  I didn't provide it because I copy/pasted the whole (short) article.
https://www.reference.com/world-view/countries-practice-polyandry-8bd1951429f0175a


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## Catlady (Nov 7, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> It is rare but I have heard of tribes in mountainous regions of Asia where it is/was? practised. Poor men are not likely to be able to afford a bride so the solution is for one woman to become the wife of several brothers.


Isn't it interesting how in some places the woman has to provide a "dowry" to attract a husband and in other places the man has to provide a ''bride price'' to get a wife?  I guess it depends on which sex is the most plentiful in that part of the world.


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## Manatee (Nov 7, 2019)

Imagine having to train multiple wives.  I have been struggling with just one for 60 years.


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## gennie (Nov 7, 2019)

Aunt Bea said:


> As long as everyone involved is above the age of consent and they can afford to maintain multiple families without becoming a burden on the public it comes under the heading of none of my business.



Exactly


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## terry123 (Nov 7, 2019)

Most of these "reality" shows are scripted and have nothing to do with reality. Child abuse is just that whether its an old man or women condoning it.


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## AnnieA (Nov 7, 2019)

PVC said:


> And can you imagine all the laundry and cooking and bed making she would have to do.



I  dunno ...one woman, multiple men in the same household.  She'd have the means to motivate them to do some chores.


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## fuzzybuddy (Nov 8, 2019)

About 50% of the population is male and about 50% of the population is female. So that brings up a problem with polygamy. If Mr. X has eight wives, then there are 7 males, who don't have a wife. In a polygamous community with multiple older males having multiple wives, there is an extreme shortage of marriageable females for young adult males.
Also, I think you have to define "polygamy". It can be more than having multiple spouses. It can be a male dominated, exploitation of females, akin to a cult.  When people are denied basic human rights, it doesn't matter how many spouses one has. I think this is the aspect most object to when they hear the word, "ploygamy".


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## Duster (Nov 8, 2019)

As a taxpayer, I don't like financially supporting the multiple families. The wives who are not legally married to the husband collect aid to dependent children checks, snap, medicaid, and HUD housing credits.  If adults choose to live multiple partner lifestyles, why do we have to pay for it? They're setting up their lives to be on the public dole for their entire lives!  What's fair about that?


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## Duster (Nov 8, 2019)

When I was 14 I had a boyfriend who was LDS.  He told me that he believed in polygamy and asked if I was okay with it.  I said it was fine with me, not willing to admit that I didn't have a clue what polygamy was.  He started seeing my best friend, so I dumped him.  Only years later did I understand.


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## Catlady (Nov 8, 2019)

Duster said:


> When I was 14 I had a boyfriend who was LDS.  He told me that he believed in polygamy and asked if I was okay with it.  I said it was fine with me, not willing to admit that I didn't have a clue what polygamy was.  He started seeing my best friend, so I dumped him.  Only years later did I understand.


Considering how fast he was moving back then, I wonder how many wives he has now?    Muslims can only have four wives and an unlimited number of concubines.    LDS can have any number of wives. The founder, Joseph Smith, had either 28 or 49 wives, the total number is disputed.


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## win231 (Nov 8, 2019)

Manatee said:


> Imagine having to train multiple wives.  I have been struggling with just one for 60 years.


LOL - "Train" a wife.  wuf, wuf.   Do those Milk Bones work?


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## jujube (Nov 8, 2019)

PVC said:


> Considering how fast he was moving back then, I wonder how many wives he has now?    Muslims can only have four wives and an unlimited number of concubines.    LDS can have any number of wives. The founder, Joseph Smith, had either 28 or 49 wives, the total number is disputed.



Brigham Young allegedly had 55 wives.  Of course a good many of them were elderly widows who were just "courtesy" wives.

My grandmother's father is rumored to have taken off to be a Morman, never to be heard of again. I tried to find him in the Morman genealogy records, but he either changed his name or never made it out there.


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## DaveA (Nov 8, 2019)

Maybe I'm naive but why does one have to have a wife or more than one.  In our present day people are able to live together without the formality of marriage or I suppose people can just shop around, banging whoever is handy and willing.  The problem of polygamy would be eliminated with little effort.  It's a thing of the past - -no need for it today.

I don't necessarily approve of it but it seems to be the "way of the world", at least here in the USA.


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## Suzy623 (Nov 8, 2019)

I'm against cults with multiple wives/husbands; but to each his own. However - when I was working full time and raising 4 children with 3 of them playing baseball and still had to do the cooking and cleaning, it would have seemed like a good idea.  That way my husband and I could work and the other 'wife' could stay home and do the cooking, cleaning, busing boys to practice and games, make sure they did their homework, etc. It would have been cheaper than having a live-in maid. Not to mention that my husband had to work out of town a lot and I would be gone a week at a time during trade show season.


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## fmdog44 (Nov 8, 2019)

Ken N Tx said:


> I don't think I ever heard of a woman with multiple husbands???


Za-Za Gabor!!


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## Warrigal (Nov 9, 2019)

Suzy623 said:


> I'm against cults with multiple wives/husbands; but to each his own. However - when I was working full time and raising 4 children with 3 of them playing baseball and still had to do the cooking and cleaning, it would have seemed like a good idea.  That way my husband and I could work and the other 'wife' could stay home and do the cooking, cleaning, busing boys to practice and games, make sure they did their homework, etc. It would have been cheaper than having a live-in maid. Not to mention that my husband had to work out of town a lot and I would be gone a week at a time during trade show season.


 I hear you.
When I was a young and struggling wife and mother I used to muse that I wouldn't mind if Hubby took a second wife, as long as I could be head wife.


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## treeguy64 (Nov 9, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> I hear you.
> When I was a young and struggling wife and mother I used to muse that I wouldn't mind if Hubby took a second wife, as long as I could be head wife.


Hmm..... Perhaps a bad choice of words?


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## Ronni (Nov 9, 2019)

According to Merriam Webster: 

*polygyny*
the state or practice of having more than one wife
*polyandry*
the state or practice of having more than one husband or male mate at one time
*polygamy*
marriage in which a spouse of either sex may have more than one mate at the same time

So.... either gender can be polygamous. But if you’re a woman with more than one male mate you're polyandrous, and if you’re a man with more than one female mate you’re polygynous.

All of which begs the question, in this age of gender fluidity, bi-sexuality, polymorphous behavior etc, if these definitions wil ultimately become antiquated.


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## OneEyedDiva (Nov 9, 2019)

Sunny said:


> I didn't want to hijack the thread about the Mormons in Mexico, but I have wondered about this for a long time. Why is polygamy so hated by many in the western world? After all, it exists in the Bible, and has continuously existed throughout human history. If people choose that lifestyle, who is it harming?  And why the intense feeling against it?
> 
> The TV series Big Love explored this subject in a very interesting way. Did anyone else watch it?


Muslims permitted (not necessarily encouraged) polygamous marriages because in ancient times, many Muslim men were lost to war leaving too many widows with children. A Muslim man is not obligated to support any woman who is not his wife so the men took on more than one wife.  The ruling was no more than 4 wives and they couldn't be related (sisters, children of the wife(wives), aunts, etc.  The women had to be of sound mind and able to make decisions for themselves, were not to be coerced or forced into marriage. The marriages had to be witnessed and made public...not done in secret. 
My second marriage was a polygamous one.  After my first traditional marriage (when I was Christian), which lasted only 3 months, I knew that "traditional" marriage was not for me.  I used to say I'd never marry again....ever.  But my 2nd was one of the nicest people you could meet, the handsomest man I'd ever seen and I finally fell for him.  A good mutual friend had tried to get us together for years but I said I wasn't interested because I knew he had a wife. We wound up getting together in our own time on our own terms due to some unforeseen circumstances (one with a paranormal element).  I held off for three years before finally marrying him.  I knew the stigma attached and didn't know anyone else (at the time) in that situation.  I met some people in Virginia who were in polygamous marriages and found out later that the Sheik who married us was too. My husband, my co-wife and I were in the same age range when I married him...47-48.  We were married for 25 years.

Polygamy has been demonized by the reporting of men who have so many wives, many of which are minors.  Also, if those families are a drain on the state funds (getting public assistance), that is certainly a catalyst. I had read a book, by a non-Muslim author entitled Man Sharing. Not only Mormons and Muslims practiced it, historically Jewish people practiced it as well.  And as previously mentioned, it was no biggie back in Biblical times.  Men had hundreds of concubines.  This country is somewhat hypocritical too.  Men who have mistresses are often excused and even admired.  Affairs are so common in this country.  But when someone legitimizes the relationship via marriage to a second (or 3rd) woman, he's seen as evil and possibly faces jail time. Add to that.... alleged religious freedom gets taken off the table.


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## Lc jones (Nov 9, 2019)

I’m all about the nuclear family kids do best with a married mom and dad who are loving parents and they raise them in a stable atmosphere. I believe many of the problems of the world going on nowadays are the direct result of unstable family units. Mine is not a popular opinion but it is my opinion.


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## Warrigal (Nov 9, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Hmm..... Perhaps a bad choice of words?


To the pure of mind, all things are pure.


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## StarSong (Nov 9, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> To the pure of mind, all things are pure.


Not gonna find a lot of "pure of mind" on this forum.


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## treeguy64 (Nov 9, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> To the pure of mind, all things are pure.


Yeah, I hear yuh, sistuh. I was pure of mind right up until I was about five years old.


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## Catlady (Nov 9, 2019)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Polygamy has been demonized by the reporting of men who have so many wives, many of which are minors.  Also, if those families are a drain on the state funds (getting public assistance), that is certainly a catalyst.
> 
> *Men who have mistresses are often excused and even admired. * Affairs are so common in this country.  But when someone legitimizes the relationship via marriage to a second (or 3rd) woman, he's seen as evil and possibly faces jail time. Add to that.... alleged religious freedom gets taken off the table.


I don't care when adults, such as you, consent to marry into a polygamous marriage.  I do hate when children are told they must marry into it or they will ''go to hell'' if they don't.

I've never heard of men being admired or excused for cheating.  People, especially other men, might look the other way though.  I've heard of Muslim men criticizing western men of having ''serial marriages'' through divorce, but even with four wives Muslim men still hanker for more women and have unlimited concubines allowed to them.   Who is being hypocritical here?

Just curious, you don't have to reply.  Were you at all jealous of sharing your husband?  I'd rather be single than share my man, even if I loved the other woman like a sister.


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## Sunny (Nov 10, 2019)

> Fathers can't support all these kids usually, and then they go on welfare, beg and dumpster dive.
> Their homes aren't usually like the nice places like on Sister Wives. They're often dumps, leaky trailers and the likes.



Not arguing, Radish, as I have no idea. But I'm wondering, how do you know this? And why do the fathers have to be the sole support of all those kids?  In today's world, don't most mothers work as well?


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## Catlady (Nov 10, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Not arguing, Radish, as I have no idea. But I'm wondering, how do you know this? And why do the fathers have to be the sole support of all those kids?  In today's world, don't most mothers work as well?


I read about this family where this guy had his own trailer and everyone of his wives had their own trailer.  All the adults sold magazine subscriptions by cold calling on the phone.  I don't know how the women found the time since they usually have a bunch of kids, not just one or two.


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## RadishRose (Nov 10, 2019)

Sunny said:


> But I'm wondering, how do you know this? And why do the fathers have to be the sole support of all those kids? In today's world, don't most mothers work as


I wish I could member the names of the few documentaries I've seen, @Sunny.

The women who don't work are those tied down with multiple children.

Here are a group of some-
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=polygamy+documentary


https://www.ranker.com/list/warren-jeffs-facts/kellen-perry


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## RadishRose (Nov 10, 2019)

AnnieA said:


> I  dunno ...one woman, multiple men in the same household.  She'd have the means to motivate them to do some chores.


Multiple men in the house and only one woman? Why assume she has all the work? She shouldn't have to lift a finger if they're not bringing home money. 

If they are, they can afford a cleaning service!


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## Liberty (Nov 10, 2019)

Ken N Tx said:


> I don't think I ever heard of a woman with multiple husbands???


Well, had a client, when we were in the tropical fish importing biz, that lived with her 2 ex husbands.  Now she was a character to begin with, but it was interesting to note that one of the ex husbands would worry about the other ex husband...like "did he take his morning meds" or "did he eat right for lunch".  They always seemed to be very happy and I'm betting she never needed to fix a meal.


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## Catlady (Nov 10, 2019)

Liberty said:


> Well, had a client, when we were in the tropical fish importing biz, that lived with her 2 ex husbands.


Shortly after we divorced (he was a serial cheater) my ex found another woman and married her (and cheated on her, too).  A few years later he told me that he wished I would live with them, he said he liked some things about me and other things about her.  I told him I was not good about sharing.


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## Liberty (Nov 10, 2019)

PVC said:


> Shortly after we divorced (he was a serial cheater) my ex found another woman and married her (and cheated on her, too).  A few years later he told me that he wished I would live with them, he said he liked some things about me and other things about her.  I told him I was not good about sharing.


OMG!!!


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## drifter (Nov 10, 2019)

Do we still have that? Polygamy.


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## jujube (Nov 10, 2019)

Hogamous, Higamous,
 Man is polygamous,
 Higamous, Hogamous,
 Woman is monogamous.

---credited to many famous wits, including Ogden Nash and Dorothy Parker.


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## Ronni (Nov 11, 2019)

Purely from an evolutionary standpoint, the male is designed to procreate with as many females as possible, in order to perpetuate the race.  The female however, is inherently less so as a result of being the bearer and nurturer of the offspring.

From the Academy of Natural Sciences: 
_To state the generalization more accurately, it is frequently, if not usually, the case that for every receptive female in the mating pool of a population, there is more than one male ready to inseminate her. This typical imbalance in the operational sex ratio (OSR; ref. 3) in turn stems from the basic facts of reproductive physiology: sperm are small and cheap, whereas the time and energy burdens of egg production, gestation, and parental care typically fall more heavily on females with the result that fewer females than males are available in the mating pool at any given time (4)._

I'm not making a point for or against either polygamy or monogamy, just pointing out that there are physiological imperatives play a part on an evolutionary level, even if unconsciously, which broadens the subject to one of more than societal traditions or religious beliefs or lust-driven choices.


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## Gary O' (Nov 11, 2019)

Ronni said:


> Purely from an evolutionary standpoint, the male is designed to procreate with as many females as possible, in order to perpetuate the race.


And we've done quite well with that at 7,700,000,000 people


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## Ronni (Nov 11, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> And we've done quite well with that at 7,700,000,000 people


Yes.  Yes you have.  And showing no signs of stopping either!


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## Ken N Tx (Nov 11, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> And we've done quite well with that at 7,700,000,000 people


Gary, are you as tired as I am??


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## 911 (Nov 11, 2019)

Ronni said:


> Purely from an evolutionary standpoint, the male is designed to procreate with as many females as possible, in order to perpetuate the race.  The female however, is inherently less so as a result of being the bearer and nurturer of the offspring.
> 
> From the Academy of Natural Sciences:
> _To state the generalization more accurately, it is frequently, if not usually, the case that for every receptive female in the mating pool of a population, there is more than one male ready to inseminate her. This typical imbalance in the operational sex ratio (OSR; ref. 3) in turn stems from the basic facts of reproductive physiology: sperm are small and cheap, whereas the time and energy burdens of egg production, gestation, and parental care typically fall more heavily on females with the result that fewer females than males are available in the mating pool at any given time (4)._
> ...


Where does this come from? Men are designed to procreate? Isn’t everyone? Men can’t do it alone (yet). I always thought it took two.


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## Olivia (Nov 11, 2019)

Ronni said:


> Purely from an evolutionary standpoint, the male is designed to procreate with as many females as possible, in order to perpetuate the race.  The female however, is inherently less so as a result of being the bearer and nurturer of the offspring.
> 
> From the Academy of Natural Sciences:
> _To state the generalization more accurately, it is frequently, if not usually, the case that for every receptive female in the mating pool of a population, there is more than one male ready to inseminate her. This typical imbalance in the operational sex ratio (OSR; ref. 3) in turn stems from the basic facts of reproductive physiology: sperm are small and cheap, whereas the time and energy burdens of egg production, gestation, and parental care typically fall more heavily on females with the result that fewer females than males are available in the mating pool at any given time (4)._
> ...



Yes, but since evolutionary times, we now have DNA to prove paternity. So procreate all they want, but there's now a difference between cats and and dogs and people and how they behave. Hopefully.


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## Ronni (Nov 12, 2019)

911 said:


> Where does this come from? Men are designed to procreate? Isn’t everyone? Men can’t do it alone (yet). I always thought it took two.


 I didn’t say JUST men are designed to procreate. I was speaking to the relative imbalance between the two. Read what I quoted.


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## RadishRose (Nov 12, 2019)

Ronni said:


> I didn’t say JUST men are designed to procreate. I was speaking to the relative imbalance between the two. Read what I quoted.


Yes, Ronni said- the male is designed to procreate *with as many females as possible* .......,


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## jerry old (Nov 12, 2019)

Where's Mine's?


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## Catlady (Nov 12, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> Yes, Ronni said- the male is designed to procreate *with as many females as possible* .......,


Humans are one of the few species that practice monogamy (and badly at that).  There's a few animals that practice it, right off the top of my head are = doves, penguins, and the alpha wolves in a pack.  I'm sure there's more that I forgot or don't know about.


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## jerry old (Nov 12, 2019)

This thread has taken a turn to the horrific.  I would like to state events, the way things were- can't.
I know we all need balm; we do a lot of strange behaviors, seeking healing.


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## Butterfly (Nov 13, 2019)

What turn to the horrific?  The thread started out  with the horrific massacre of 3 young mothers and 6 of their children.  What could be more horrific than that?


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## jerry old (Nov 13, 2019)

Butterfly:
The destruction of a human spirit, leaves a perpetuity of  'uncertainty'
'hesitancy:' 
1.  may well lead to a responsive personality of rage
2.  acidity personality (attacking first, before you have the opportunity to harm, setting  boundaries, partitions of which only you are aware of...
3.  Co-dependency- a word still seeking definition.
Those afflicted have no awareness of their affliction.
They are 'difficult,' people, wandering through their life seeking definition.
These are the gentle effects...
The finality of death does not leave one to  wander through a life of mine fields.
If you do not follow, good for you.
I am through. 
back to op


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## Ladybj (Nov 13, 2019)

I can barely keep up being married to one man, I cannot image multiple... and my hubby feel the same way
But whomever is living that life and are happy, that is what counts.  But I know it's definitely NOT FOR ME.


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## Sunny (Nov 13, 2019)

> Butterfly:
> The destruction of a human spirit, leaves a perpetuity of  'uncertainty'
> 'hesitancy:'
> 1.  may well lead to a responsive personality of rage
> ...



Jerry, what in tarnation are you talking about???


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## Butterfly (Nov 13, 2019)

jerry r. garner said:


> Butterfly:
> The destruction of a human spirit, leaves a perpetuity of  'uncertainty'
> 'hesitancy:'
> 1.  may well lead to a responsive personality of rage
> ...



???  I don't understand.


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## Keesha (Nov 13, 2019)

Ladybj said:


> I can barely keep up being married to one man, I cannot image multiple... and my hubby feel the same way
> But whomever is living that life and are happy, that is what counts.  But I know it's definitely NOT FOR ME.


Ditto.


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## jerry old (Nov 13, 2019)

I cannot address polygamy of ancient times, or the polygamy present in some cultures today.
I speak as a singular individual, with a single opinion, but also a member of this nation.  Polygamy is still practiced in this nation in many sectors not sanctioned by any religions group.

Pause a moment and remember the Manson Girls use as what?
Not polygamy, you say-and you would be correct, but they were chattel. Chattel is the side result of grouping.

The drug/alcohol situation in your community, whether your aware of it of not has resulted in groups of people pooling resources to survive. (They is no counter of the sexes five males, two females, hmm)
Are these ****** pools? Nope, our western stereotyping of monogamy colors our thinking. ****** activity is practiced as a casual behavior The Dominate Person’s Rising to a Position delivering the Can and Cannots.

The primary question is what assets do you bring with you?
The ladies will rally to any that can guarantee their survival in these homes, be they male of female-is that polygamy-yes it is. As will the weaker males (weaker encompassing physical and emotional strength, is that polygamy-no but it’s something.

Any grouping of human beings, be it one husband one spouse will result in the eternal wrestling for position, if prolonged between two members of the opposite sex, an equilibrium is reached:
If more than two-the eternal wrestling will continue with ‘bruising’ occurring.

Bruising is my topic-polygamy is only one of the many step-children involved. I’m trying to make my way to horrific bruising.
Read Double RR's posting, as well as post 47
(C0-Dependency my vehicle
has anybody out ther ever attended an Al Anon?)


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## win231 (Nov 14, 2019)

PVC said:


> Considering how fast he was moving back then, I wonder how many wives he has now?    Muslims can only have four wives and an unlimited number of concubines.    LDS can have any number of wives. The founder, Joseph Smith, had either 28 or 49 wives, the total number is disputed.


Thanks for that word - "Concubine."  I've heard it but never knew what it meant, so I looked it up.  Pretty funny.


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## Catlady (Nov 14, 2019)

win231 said:


> Thanks for that word - "Concubine."  I've heard it but never knew what it meant, so I looked it up.  Pretty funny.



Yes, as you already know , a concubine is another word for mistress, but there are distinctions =
{{ A concubine is a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, especially one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress. (among polygamous peoples) a secondary wife, usually of inferior rank. }}

Solomon was reputed to have had 700 wives and 300 concubines.  I believe it's probably an exaggeration, probably in an attempt to make Solomon look prosperous, to be able to afford so many wives.  Or maybe he just married the wives of men who died for him in battle and he could support them?     Of course, romantic love is a recent invention, most people married to have legal children and heirs.

I found this article very informative:
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Concubinage


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## Liberty (Nov 14, 2019)

PVC said:


> Yes, as you already know , a concubine is another word for mistress, but there are distinctions =
> {{ A concubine is a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, especially one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress. (among polygamous peoples) a secondary wife, usually of inferior rank. }}
> 
> Solomon was reputed to have had 700 wives and 300 concubines.  I believe it's probably an exaggeration, probably in an attempt to make Solomon look prosperous, to be able to afford so many wives.  Or maybe he just married the wives of men who died for him in battle and he could support them?     Of course, romantic love is a recent invention, most people married to have legal children and heirs.
> ...


Yeah, and he got taken big time by those dancing girls in the end!

So much for being rich and smart.  No fool like an old fool...lol.


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## Pepper (Nov 14, 2019)

jerry r. garner said:


> Read Double RR's posting


Wouldn't that be *RRRR*?
Interesting post.


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## RadishRose (Nov 14, 2019)

I don't understand.......


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## OneEyedDiva (Nov 20, 2019)

PVC said:


> I don't care when adults, such as you, consent to marry into a polygamous marriage.  I do hate when children are told they must marry into it or they will ''go to hell'' if they don't.
> 
> I've never heard of men being admired or excused for cheating.  People, especially other men, might look the other way though.  I've heard of Muslim men criticizing western men of having ''serial marriages'' through divorce, but even with four wives Muslim men still hanker for more women and have unlimited concubines allowed to them.   Who is being hypocritical here?
> 
> Just curious, you don't have to reply.  Were you at all jealous of sharing your husband?  I'd rather be single than share my man, even if I loved the other woman like a sister.


Well I've not only heard of men being admired (more for being able to get away with cheating)...I overheard men in the work place discussing covering for one another so they could cheat and being quite delighted with themselves.  I feel as you do as far as children being child brides (even when it's a monogamous marriage...read the stats for how prevalent it is in the U.S.)  To answer your question...the crazy thing is I was jealous by nature when I married my husband. It didn't help that he was extremely handsome and got hit on a lot, even by his grown daughters' friends. I wasn't jealous of my co-wife because of their history.  They had been good friends since they were in their early 20's. (at that time it was for over 20 years). They started a business together and as members of the Nation of Islam, were somewhat pressured into marriage since they traveled together a lot for the business and that kind of fraternization wasn't (still isn't) permitted.

My husband said that there was never any romance between them.  She and I had a symbiotic relationship at first, then became genuine friends ("sisters" as it were) and she confirmed that she was never in love with him, though she did love him as one would love any good friend. He was an affectionate man and missed that in his life.  She never wanted to travel (other than for business) so he and I took several trips together. She was actually one of the nicest people I'd ever met. Never heard her back bite. She was a hard working, humble, gentle spirit.  She died 14 months before he did and I miss her.

I used to get jealous and have tantrums seeing him hug younger woman and be engaged in conversation with them only to feel foolish after finding out that they were relatives. In one instance it was his step daughter whom I'd never met because she lives several states away and rarely visited. Sometimes it was a niece, grand niece or one of his many cousins.  All of this was confirmed when seeing and interacting with them at his family reunions or cookouts and finding out which of his siblings were their parents or grandparents.  My family is huge, but his is even bigger and he has so many grandchildren, nieces, nephews and cousins that I still don't know them all.  After awhile, I realized it was useless to feel jealous of this man.  We were together for 27 years before he passed. In a way, I felt this was a life lesson for me.


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## Catlady (Nov 20, 2019)

@OneEyedDiva  -  THANK YOU for your gracious reply.   I apologize for being rude and aggressive in my post to you. 

 Like you, I am jealous by nature and could never accept sharing my man, so it's hard for me to understand and accept polygamous religions and cultures.  The only reason why I divorced my handsome husband (he reminded me of Elvis) is that he was a womanizer and liked sharing himself with other women.  Otherwise, he was a good man, a good provider, not abusive (other than the cheating) and I do believe he cared about me, maybe even loved me.  He also cheated on his second wife, so it had nothing personal to do with me.


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## Sunny (Nov 20, 2019)

Pepper is right. Double RR would be RR Squared.  Which I don't think is a good description of Radish.


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## Catlady (Nov 20, 2019)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Well I've not only heard of men being admired (more for being able to get away with cheating)...I overheard men in the work place discussing covering for one another so they could cheat and being quite delighted with themselves.


I have read that men are loyal to other men, and even if they disapprove of them cheating on their girlfriends and wives, they will not tell on them and try to protect them.  Women, on the other hand, are more likely to tell either the cheated-on-woman or, more likely, to their friends (and that starts the rumor mill going).


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## OneEyedDiva (Nov 20, 2019)

PVC said:


> @OneEyedDiva  -  THANK YOU for your gracious reply.   I apologize for being rude and aggressive in my post to you.
> 
> Like you, I am jealous by nature and could never accept sharing my man, so it's hard for me to understand and accept polygamous religions and cultures.  The only reason why I divorced my handsome husband (he reminded me of Elvis) is that he was a womanizer and liked sharing himself with other women.  Otherwise, he was a good man, a good provider, not abusive (other than the cheating) and I do believe he cared about me, maybe even loved me.  He also cheated on his second wife, so it had nothing personal to do with me.


You're welcome PVC.  I did not view your original reply/question as being rude or aggressive at all.  Sorry you had the experience you did. But at least you got out of the marriage rather than continuing to suffer through it. That takes strength and courage.


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## Keesha (Nov 21, 2019)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Muslims permitted (not necessarily encouraged) polygamous marriages because in ancient times, many Muslim men were lost to war leaving too many widows with children. A Muslim man is not obligated to support any woman who is not his wife so the men took on more than one wife.  The ruling was no more than 4 wives and they couldn't be related (sisters, children of the wife(wives), aunts, etc.  The women had to be of sound mind and able to make decisions for themselves, were not to be coerced or forced into marriage. The marriages had to be witnessed and made public...not done in secret.
> My second marriage was a polygamous one.  After my first traditional marriage (when I was Christian), which lasted only 3 months, I knew that "traditional" marriage was not for me.  I used to say I'd never marry again....ever.  But my 2nd was one of the nicest people you could meet, the handsomest man I'd ever seen and I finally fell for him.  A good mutual friend had tried to get us together for years but I said I wasn't interested because I knew he had a wife. We wound up getting together in our own time on our own terms due to some unforeseen circumstances (one with a paranormal element).  I held off for three years before finally marrying him.  I knew the stigma attached and didn't know anyone else (at the time) in that situation.  I met some people in Virginia who were in polygamous marriages and found out later that the Sheik who married us was too. My husband, my co-wife and I were in the same age range when I married him...47-48.  We were married for 25 years.
> 
> Polygamy has been demonized by the reporting of men who have so many wives, many of which are minors.  Also, if those families are a drain on the state funds (getting public assistance), that is certainly a catalyst. I had read a book, by a non-Muslim author entitled Man Sharing. Not only Mormons and Muslims practiced it, historically Jewish people practiced it as well.  And as previously mentioned, it was no biggie back in Biblical times.  Men had hundreds of concubines.  This country is somewhat hypocritical too.  Men who have mistresses are often excused and even admired.  Affairs are so common in this country.  But when someone legitimizes the relationship via marriage to a second (or 3rd) woman, he's seen as evil and possibly faces jail time. Add to that.... alleged religious freedom gets taken off the table.


I find this most fascinating. A polygamous marriage that last 25 years. You relationship sounds like one of mutual love & respect plus you seem much more mature than the average person.

Losing both must be quite the loss. 
Thanks for sharing this with us. It’s quite courageous of you.


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## OneEyedDiva (Nov 24, 2019)

Keesha said:


> I find this most fascinating. A polygamous marriage that last 25 years. You relationship sounds like one of mutual love & respect plus you seem much more mature than the average person.
> 
> Losing both must be quite the loss.
> Thanks for sharing this with us. It’s quite courageous of you.


Thank *you* for your kind response to my post Keesha.  Always trying to better myself in all aspects.  Life is a teaching experience, if we just open ourselves up to learning.


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