# How does a person live alone and not get lonely?



## Bretrick (Oct 27, 2021)

I have lived alone for more than 30 years and in all that time I have never been lonely.
Some people do not need others around them to enjoy life.
While others have this compulsion to talk for talking's sake. To engage non stop in chit chat.
My method to stave off loneliness is to have a huge variety of interests. Be it Jigsaw Puzzles, crosswords, reading both fiction(horror) and non fiction books.
My number one method to keeping boredom at bay is to go camping across this wide state of mine. Western Australia is 2.646 million sq km's.(England is 130,000)
Camping, fishing, beach combing, bush walking, easy mountain climbing, canoeing, crabbing.
I know marriage is no guarantee to stave off loneliness. I have a strong self image of myself so I do not need constant reassurance from others. I do engage with those around me. I know my local corner store owner by name. We share life's little moments when I visit the store.
If and when negative thoughts crop up in my mind, and it does happen from time to time, I actively take steps to be rid of them. I say out loud, "Get out of my head, you are not wanted"
I write the negativity out of my mind. Very effective way to remove it. Pick up a pen and write. Do not think about what to write. Just let it flow until there is no more.
My life is one of contentment that I have made to work. It does not happen without putting in some effort. I smile inwardly when I hear people say, " I'm bored"
I think, "Well your not putting in an effort to change the situation."
Life does not come knocking on your door. You want a life of contentment? Get out there and make it.
Okay, so far I am not house bound and have the energy and drive to go out and about.
When I lose that? The afore mentioned activities will help stave off loneliness.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 28, 2021)

I also marvel at the incessant threads about "loneliness" and just cannot understand people's endless obsession with it.  People need to grow up and to grow out of their self made problem.  Like you, I keep busy by reading, cooking, watching sports, cleaning my apartment, watching youtube videos, etc.  
All those tears these people have - yuck.  If only they could see how silly it is to keep crying in public about nothing.


----------



## Pepper (Oct 28, 2021)

Well hip hip hooray for the two of you.


----------



## SmoothSeas (Oct 28, 2021)

Being an only child, of a single parent, I grew, at a very young age, to be comfortable with my own company.  And now, in my senior years, I still am...

I indulge in my interests and my hobbies and give free reign to my curiosity.  Never have had any problems with being able to amuse myself.

One can be surrounded by people and still be lonely...


----------



## Ruthanne (Oct 28, 2021)

That's wonderful you've gathered all of those things to do to keep your life interesting and not lonely.  I do several things and will come up with more as time goes on.  I've also got my nice doggie and bird for company whom I talk to all the time.  Even though they don't talk back they listen and look like they understand.


----------



## horseless carriage (Oct 28, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> All those tears these people have - yuck.  If only they could see how silly it is to keep crying in public about nothing.


We are all made very differently, what helps some, cathartic even, is to share their despair. They are not thinking about how big an internet audience is, what they know is that a friendly forum like this will inevitably dispense tea and sympathy. That in turn lifts their spirits and the carer feels a sense of purpose at being able to help.

Being generous to others costs very little, showing that you care helps. For some company is everything and loneliness a great heartache, so I would say, make a few suggestions as to what might be best to lift the spirit of someone who needs a little bit of a stranger's love. 

As St. Paul put it in his  second letter to The Corinthians:
2 Corinthians 9:6-8
Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

That message is as good for those with a secular outlook on life as it is for those who believe in a deity.


----------



## officerripley (Oct 28, 2021)

A lot of the hobbies listed above are great if you like that sort of thing (I do up to a point, espec. reading). However, there are those of us who just enjoy some human socializing, at least once in a while and some simply would rather visit with other people more than they enjoy doing anything else. Yes, there are indeed people like that, although I admit there are fewer and fewer it seems. Sometimes it seems to me as if the internet has caused an increase in misanthropes. (I know it hasn't really but it sure feels as if sometimes.) You either like people or you don't, I guess.


----------



## Manatee (Oct 28, 2021)

My wife has been in hospital/rehab since early March.  We have been married for 62 years, I miss having her around.  Going to visit every day is not the same.


----------



## Pepper (Oct 28, 2021)

The luckiest people in the world


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 28, 2021)

Some people, , live with someone else and are lonely as well, cause they live with a jerk.  (Just saying).  Having said that, I have to have a puppy/dog. Something living who loves me, and wakes up everyday overjoyed to see me.

Otherwise all the books, tv, walks, wonderful adult children, grandchildren, great grandchildren with their own lives, etc, would not be enough to keep me in this world.


----------



## palides2021 (Oct 28, 2021)

I have a question for those of you who have said they are comfortable living alone -
What brings you here to the Senior Forum? Isn't it a way of socializing? Just curious. I feel 
like kindred spirits are here, so I keep coming back.


----------



## Bretrick (Oct 28, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> I have a question for those of you who have said they are comfortable living alone -
> What brings you here to the Senior Forum? Isn't it a way of socializing? Just curious. I feel
> like kindred spirits are here, so I keep coming back.


Social network sites provide another opportunity to stave off loneliness.
Meeting people, interacting with people from the world over is a very worthwhile and uplifting pursuit.
I am on two other sites and have some marvelous friends.
Personally, I do not need face to face contact. Though I have that, with work, with neighbours, with the friendly corner store proprietor.
I prefer to do my things, without others present.


----------



## Jules (Oct 28, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> While others have this compulsion to talk for talking's sake. To engage non stop in chit chat.


Just because it doesn’t interest you, don’t listen. 



Bretrick said:


> My life is one of contentment that I have made to work. It does not happen without putting in some effort.


That’s good, whatever works for you.  


Bretrick said:


> Life does not come knocking on your door. You want a life of contentment? Get out there and make it.



It seems to me you’re being judgmental, again.  Maybe I’m misreading your intentions. 

That’s fine, whatever works for you to make you happy.  We’re not all the same.


----------



## SmoothSeas (Oct 28, 2021)

Interaction is fine, but it's not something that I NEED or CRAVE...


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 28, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> We are all made very differently, what helps some, cathartic even, is to share their despair.




Yeah but for how long? I've been alone all my life and, like most mature people, have never had the need to do so. There are tens of thousands of churches, professional social services, volunteer groups, community centers, municipal parks, museums, fraternal groups, etc.  Now that I'm retired there are so many things to do that my one usual complaint is that there aren't enough hours in the day for me to accomplish all that I want to do. My pals who are grandparents are even busier.  Thus to me, there just is no excuse for self pitying "loneliness".  But to each their own, I guess.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 28, 2021)

Pepper said:


> The luckiest people in the world


----------



## mellowyellow (Oct 28, 2021)

I think loneliness is the saddest, most destructive emotion and believe our culture is largely responsible. Look around at different cultures, they have large extended families and are rarely ever alone. We don’t. They don’t pack their oldies off into nursing homes. We do. I envy those who have never felt lonely, you’re very lucky IMO.


----------



## Bretrick (Oct 28, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> I think loneliness is the saddest, most destructive emotion and believe our culture is largely responsible. Look around at different cultures, they have large extended families and are rarely ever alone. We don’t. They don’t pack their oldies off into nursing homes. We do. I envy those who have never felt lonely, you’re very lucky IMO.


Early childhood experiences had me withdrawing at a very early age. I learnt to amuse myself and over time became comfortable with always being alone.


----------



## Ruthanne (Oct 28, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> I have a question for those of you who have said they are comfortable living alone -
> What brings you here to the Senior Forum? Isn't it a way of socializing? Just curious. I feel
> like kindred spirits are here, so I keep coming back.


I'm very comfortable living alone, no one to answer to or argue with.  On SF I can interact When I want to and learn about others and sometimes from others, too.  I like to socialize at times so it's easy to come online and do so and no catching covid either with internet connecting.  In the future I have more ideas about socializing offline.


----------



## Nathan (Oct 28, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> How does a person live alone and not get lonely?


After my last divorce I decided to *not *get involved with anyone for a while, needed to figure out why I kept ending up in disastrous relationships.
...read a "self help" book, the one concept that really jumped out from the pages was-  "you gotta enjoy your own company".   Quite true, why should someone be dependent on "having" someone in their life, in order to be happy?

I did re-marry, but I did it right, did the courtship thing for 3 years so that we would get a chance to really *know* each other.


----------



## Shero (Oct 28, 2021)

Bretrick said:
_While others have this compulsion to talk for talking's sake. To engage non stop in chit chat._

Isn't that what you have been doing since you arrived here? But it's okay, we listen!!


----------



## Shero (Oct 28, 2021)

There are many different reasons why people are lonely and rubbing it in by telling them what they should be doing is not helpful, not kind. Certainly there are a lot of activities for "lonely" people to do, but no real connection. I think most are talking about having a friend to confide to, someone to touch and have a coffee with or invite to their house.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 28, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> have a question for those of you who have said they are comfortable living alone -
> What brings you here to the Senior Forum?





Look at that terrific thread that deals with the Adirondacks of NY (among others) and you'll see one of the biggest reasons what I come here


----------



## officerripley (Oct 28, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Yeah but for how long? I've been alone all my life and, like most mature people, have never had the need to do so. There are tens of thousands of churches, professional social services, volunteer groups, community centers, municipal parks, museums, fraternal groups, etc.  Now that I'm retired there are so many things to do that my one usual complaint is that there aren't enough hours in the day for me to accomplish all that I want to do. My pals who are grandparents are even busier.  Thus to me, there just is no excuse for self pitying "loneliness".  But to each their own, I guess.


Sounds like you're saying that at least some of those who feel a need to share their despair are immature to need to do so? So concentration camp victims who availed themselves of therapy after being liberated were immature to do so? So those who have lost family and other loved ones to murder, war, etc. and who availed themselves of therapy were immature to do so? So those (some of whom I've known personally) have been laid off after years of faithful service to a !@#$% corporation and who have availed themselves of therapy are immature to do so? I could go on, of course.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 28, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> I think loneliness is the saddest, most destructive emotion and believe our culture is largely responsible. Look around at different cultures, they have large extended families and are rarely ever alone. We don’t. They don’t pack their oldies off into nursing homes. We do. I envy those who have never felt lonely, you’re very lucky IMO.


I disagree.  I do not think @Bretrick is lucky.  To be lonely is to value companionship, companionship teaches you many things.  It seems, to me, that @Bretrick may lack appropriate   compassion, empathy, and other qualities too numerous to name.  Perhaps over judging because she was judged too harshly as a child.

She said she became withdrawn at a very young age.  I won’t speculate why.  I hid as much as I could as a child, and when I became older I climbed trees to avoid my horrific parents.  Course, I always had to come down eventually.  

Many of us cloak ourselves in veils of lesser humanity in order to survive the harshness of the world.  But then again, I am always willing to engage in non stop chit chat with myself or others. . Human and non human.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 28, 2021)

officerripley said:


> Sounds like you're saying that at least some of those who feel a need to share their despair are immature to need to do so? So concentration camp victims who availed themselves of therapy after being liberated were immature to do so? So those who have lost family and other loved ones to murder, war, etc. and who availed themselves of therapy were immature to do so? So those (some of whom I've known personally) have been laid off after years of faithful service to a !@#$% corporation and who have availed themselves of therapy are immature to do so? I could go on, of course.


I don’t think he means actual therapy.

I think he means people like me who share their life story.  Oh, dear.  .  But, you know, if someone doesn’t want to know about other people and their lives; then they don’t need to read the thread.  It is a really easy problem to solve.

If someone doesn’t want to listen to the chit chat of others walk away.  I think he, like others, craves attention and friendship directed towards him, but doesn’t want to or is not able to give back attention and friendship back.  Then, again, I am guessing and mean no offense.  Just trying to figure out what’s going on.


----------



## Bretrick (Oct 28, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I disagree.  I do not think @Bretrick is lucky.  To be lonely is to value companionship, companionship teaches you many things.  It seems, to me, that @Bretrick may lack appropriate   compassion, empathy, and other qualities too numerous to name.  Perhaps over judging because she was judged too harshly as a child.
> 
> She said she became withdrawn at a very young age.  I won’t speculate why.  I hid as much as I could as a child, and when I became older I climbed trees to avoid my horrific parents.  Course, I always had to come down eventually.
> 
> Many of us cloak ourselves in veils of lesser humanity in order to survive the harshness of the world.  But then again, I am always willing to engage in non stop chit chat with myself or others. . Human and non human.


I am in fact Male.   
What you say is very true. Those early experiences of mine did see me lack compassion and empathy. For many years I was emotionless as a self preservation strategy.
As I have matured my compassion and empathy has grown. I go out of my way to help those who can not help themselves.
Though I may sound harsh in my writings what I am attempting to do is to get people to see that there are ways to overcome the past and the loneliness.
But to do so, one really does need to make an effort.
I have overcome my past with coping strategies and I really love the person I have become.


----------



## Bretrick (Oct 28, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I don’t think she (?) means actual therapy.
> 
> I think she means people like me who share their life story.  Oh, dear.  .  But, you know, if someone doesn’t want to know about other people and their lives; then don’t read the thread.  It is a really easy problem to solve.
> 
> If someone doesn’t want to listen to the chit chat of others walk away.  I think she, like others, craves attention and friendship directed towards her, but doesn’t want to or is not able to give back attention and friendship back.  Then, again, I am guessing and mean no offense.  Just trying to figure out what’s going on.


He


----------



## Marie5656 (Oct 28, 2021)

*I have lived alone for much of my life, save for the 20 years with my husband ,who passed 2019. I am alone again now.  I like having my alone time, to read, watch TV or be on my computer.
But My building has a rather active community room, so I can always go down and spend as much or as little time as I want down there visiting. Best of both worlds.*


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 28, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> I am in fact Male.
> What you say is very true. Those early experiences of mine did see me lack compassion and empathy. For many years I was emotionless as a self preservation strategy.
> As I have matured my compassion and empathy has grown. I go out of my way to help those who can not help themselves.
> Though I may sound harsh in my writings what I am attempting to do is to get people to see that there are ways to overcome the past and the loneliness.
> ...


Sorry, I will try to remember that you are male.

An abused child pretty much “recognizes” another one.  Sorry for whatever you dealt with in your  past.  I have not overcome my past and at 75 I am stuck with it.  I like the person I am, but I would not say I love the person I am.

I made a lot of poor choices.  But my poor choices enabled me to help my children and grandchildren to avoid the same mistakes and for that I am very grateful.


----------



## fmdog44 (Oct 28, 2021)

I have been a bachelor all of my life by choice. My dad lost my mother from a sudden heart attack and was lost for a period of time after. Then he started dating because he was lonely and I mean lonely. His life was a large family, met my mon a couple years after high school and was deeply in love with her and married he so when he found her dead on the kitchen floor it hit him in a way I will never know. He chose to start dating out of loneliness because life had become what he never knew. The key word is "chose" If life is a burden then try to change it by choosing to not complaining.


----------



## Bretrick (Oct 28, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Sorry, I will try to remember that you are male.
> 
> An abused child pretty much “recognizes” another one.  Sorry for whatever you dealt with in your  past.  I have not overcome my past and at 75 I am stuck with it.  I like the person I am, but I would not say I love the person I am.
> 
> I made a lot of poor choices.  But my poor choices enabled me to help my children and grandchildren to avoid the same mistakes and for that I am very grateful.


You recognised that in me in my writings because of your own experiences. I still have an almost impenetrable wall around me to ensure I will never be used and abused again.
Our experiences allow us to fully understand the pitfalls of society and what to watch out for.
I am more resilient these days, so when people try to belittle me in any way I can shrug it off and move on.


----------



## Gaer (Oct 28, 2021)

There is quite a difference between being "lonely" and being "alone".   One can be alone and happy within oneself.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 28, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> You recognised that in me in my writings because of your own experiences. I still have an almost impenetrable wall around me to ensure I will never be used and abused again.
> Our experiences allow us to fully understand the pitfalls of society and what to watch out for.
> I am more resilient these days, so when people try to belittle me in any way I can shrug it off and move on.


Unfortunately or fortunately, I do not have that wall.  I still have not decided which would have been best, yet another one of my failings.


----------



## Bretrick (Oct 28, 2021)

Marie5656 said:


> *I have lived alone for much of my life, save for the 20 years with my husband ,who passed 2019. I am alone again now.  I like having my alone time, to read, watch TV or be on my computer.
> But My building has a rather active community room, so I can always go down and spend as much or as little time as I want down there visiting. Best of both worlds.*


Yes, that is the best of both worlds. When ever you desire company you need only to walk to the community centre and there it is. Wonderful


----------



## Ruthanne (Oct 28, 2021)




----------



## katlupe (Oct 28, 2021)

I live alone but I am certainly not lonely. I don't hate people or social media or forums. I like to interact with others, just like living alone.


----------



## SmoothSeas (Oct 28, 2021)

Gaer said:


> There is quite a difference between being "lonely" and being "alone".   One can be alone and happy within oneself.



exactly...


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

officerripley said:


> A lot of the hobbies listed above are great if you like that sort of thing (I do up to a point, espec. reading). However, there are those of us who just enjoy some human socializing, at least once in a while and some simply would rather visit with other people more than they enjoy doing anything else. Yes, there are indeed people like that, although I admit there are fewer and fewer it seems. Sometimes it seems to me as if the internet has caused an increase in misanthropes. (I know it hasn't really but it sure feels as if sometimes.) You either like people or you don't, I guess.


I rarely get bored. This must be because when I was a kid, if I said I was bored, chores were assigned. I love to read, and plan to begin a few other hobbies. I really like being with people. Most of the ones I know, I can't be around because of Covid. So there are plenty of times I wish I could have friends over or go visit friends. Right now I see my daughter because she lives with me, and my doctors. The thing is, my daughter is very careful about my health - takes no chances - and she is an extrovert. So she socializes mainly in group chats with her online friends. I talk on the phone with friends and family, but it is not the same as being with people - hopefully a group of 10 or fewer.

I have lived alone for about 5 years in my late teens and early 20s. I had cats to keep me company. Plus I had a large friendship group, and 3 of those friends lived in my 4-apartment building. The other 2 people were friendly acquaintances, and gave me both of my cats. I had frequent visitors - and lots of visiting back and forth between sorority sisters (we were an all-female building and that was our nickname). So it was really like quasi-living alone. With friends, I've always been a "the more the merrier" type of person. You can eat here. You can sleep here. Someone everyone will be fed and have somewhere to sleep if they want. Bring your kids! Bring your dogs! Bring your cats! Bring your mother! I wasn't running a hotel, and only a few people crashed at my place, because they didn't live very far from where I lived.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

katlupe said:


> I live alone but I am certainly not lonely. I don't hate people or social media or forums. I like to interact with others, just like living alone.


I like living alone, as far as I know. But I always have lots people around, visitors (pre-Covid). So that doesn't count. It's a hybrid situation. I've also had pets when I lived alone (and thereafter). After living in a household of six people plus a dog or cats (and other critters from time to time) for 26 years, I don't think I would be happy living alone and being more or less isolated. I'd miss the noise and the company.

My mother lived alone for many years and didn't socialize much as she got older. Part of that was because when she moved to an outlying area, she was much further away from her friends than she used to be. And sometimes her friends had moved to outlying areas even further away than she did. She loved to read and to listen to music, and mostly did that. She didn't like driving far away at night, so she did miss most of her cultural activities in the city. She also talked with her friends on the phone and Skype, and sometimes had people over. I think she saw more people when I visited, because she knew all my friends and I always invited her to come along. She also belonged to a knitting group at a yarn shop, and to a needlework group at the Senior Center. For a long time, she went swimming at the Senior Center with a friend of hers who did not think anything of driving 45 minutes for that. For decades, my mom lived at most 15 minutes from a very large city and it's amenities; > a 15 minute drive and she was horrified.


----------



## katlupe (Oct 28, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> I like living alone, as far as I know. But I always have people around, visitors. So that doesn't count, maybe? I've also had pets when I lived alone (and thereafter). After living in a household of six people plus a dog or cats (and other critters from time to time) for 26 years, I don't think I would be happy living alone and being more or less isolated. I'd miss the noise and the company.
> 
> My mother lived alone for many years and didn't socialize much as she got older. Part of that was because when she moved to an outlying area, she was much further away from her friends than she used to be. And sometimes her friends had moved to outlying areas even further away than she did. She loved to read, and mostly did that. She didn't like driving far away at night, so she did miss most of her cultural activities in the city. She also talked with her friends on the phone, and sometimes had people over. I think she saw more people when I visited, because she knew all my friends and I always invited her to come along. She also belonged to a knitting group at a yarn shop, and to a needlework group at the Senior Center. For a long time, she went swimming at the Senior Center with a friend of hers who did not think anything of a drive over 15 minutes. Originally, my mom lived at most 15 minutes from a very large city.


I live alone with my pet rabbit in my apartment but I have friends right across the hall, upstairs and downstairs from me. So I can just go knock on a door if I ever wanted to talk to someone. My boyfriend calls me a zillion times a day and I keep doing what I am doing and put him on speaker. It is like he is here. My son comes here almost every day as he lives a block away. I have many friends and family on fakebook that I talk to every day. Plus I live downtown in a small city so I can just walk outside and there are people. The library is across the street and four parks are within walking distance. The arts council is one half of my building and they have Broadway shows, concerts, art classes, etc. all right there too. So no, I never am lonely.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I also marvel at the incessant threads about "loneliness" and just cannot understand people's endless obsession with it.  People need to grow up and to grow out of their self made problem.  Like you, I keep busy by reading, cooking, watching sports, cleaning my apartment, watching youtube videos, etc.
> All those tears these people have - yuck.  If only they could see how silly it is to keep crying in public about nothing.


I think that when people are lonely, they are lonely for other people. There is a lot to be said for having caring, understanding friends, who share a lot of one's interests. For instance, I like dog people because they are as eager to hear about my dog as I am to hear about theirs, and they like to discuss all things Dog. A firm connection is made there, and I would hate to be without them. I also like to be around people who like to laugh, tease, and joke around. Who like to catch us up on our other friends who, for some reason, we haven't seen in awhile. This is just part of being in our friendship group, so no one minds. If something is said in confidence, we make sure that is understood, and we don't pass that on. We expect others to catch us up. It's even better if we like the same restaurants, especially for breakfast, where 10-12 of us typically gather weekly (we tip well and know the employees and manager). This is all pre-Covid, of course.

So I think that not being connected to people one cares about IRL would be very lonely. Some people don't agree with me, and that's fine. You be you. That's all anyone can ask of you.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

SmoothSeas said:


> One can be surrounded by people and still be lonely...


Truth.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Some people, , live with someone else and are lonely as well, cause they live with a jerk.  (Just saying).  Having said that, I have to have a puppy/dog. Something living who loves me, and wakes up everyday overjoyed to see me.


For many years, I have felt like I stick out like a sore thumb in my family. I'm optimistic, but at the same time realistic. Okay, a realistic optimist. A hope for the best, prepare for the worst (if necessary), type. The others are not. I am outgoing and friendly, the others are not, except for my daughter. I like the vast majority of people I meet; it is always shocking when I realize I don't like someone. I may not like someone's opinions on certain things, but there is usually plenty to like. We just agree not to talk about those certain things. I don't like drug addicts (n/i nicotine), but that is because active addicts will always break your heart. I have had some of them as clients, and everyone who tried to help them ended up with a broken heart. Even mean old me. The rest of my family, except for my daughter, are not so friendly. I understand my two sons with autism have trouble socially. That is not a problem, and they do get along well with online friends. But my husband and my other son do just plain not like people. They socialize only with the immediate family.

My dog, OTOH, is always over the top overjoyed to see me and to be with me, and I with him.


----------



## David777 (Oct 28, 2021)

Humans are basically intelligent social creatures, to such an extent that our brains evolved highly developed structures for complex vocal language, emotional recognition, and social interactions with others. Although it is possible as many have always done, for a human to live a satisfying fulfilling existence mostly alone or even totally alone, such requires being able to cope somehow filling that innate vacuum. 

Historically until the modern era, most humans lived in a world of limited distance with extended families in small social communities where individuals of all ages participated in the welfare and happiness of all. In particular, elders had real purpose greatly helping young families bring up children and providing wisdom.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> We are all made very differently, what helps some, cathartic even, is to share their despair. They are not thinking about how big an internet audience is, what they know is that a friendly forum like this will inevitably dispense tea and sympathy. That in turn lifts their spirits and the carer feels a sense of purpose at being able to help.
> 
> Being generous to others costs very little, showing that you care helps. For some company is everything and loneliness a great heartache, so I would say, make a few suggestions as to what might be best to lift the spirit of someone who needs a little bit of a stranger's love.
> 
> ...


I have certainly shared my despair and come here for advice. That's because ya'll give good advice. Also because I don't like to speak about my problems with my family to people who know them IRL. I don't want to damage their reputations, mainly. I don't need the small town gossip to possibly get around. There is enough already based on things people have seen for themselves. None of it criminal or immoral.

I did spend a couple of years going to a biweekly and excellent food bank. It is heartbreaking how many senior who were lonely were there. No matter what, I spent time with them. Not as a giver, but as a taker. It was fascinating getting to know them, as it usually is with people. One woman was avoided by everyone. She smelled very bad, and she brought her tiny dog (4 lbs, maybe) into the food bank with her. We had a lot of waiting around time, so a typical 4 hour visit was taken up by about 30 minutes of actually collecting food. One had to get there 1.5 early, and they only let 10 people in the food line at a time.

Anyway, I found out from her (without saying a word) that she had an awful time bathing and showering because she just couldn't get around very well, especially in the tub/shower. She also loved that little dog and he was a true emotional support animal - without him, I doubt she would have been able to bring herself to use the food bank, which she sorely needed. She was a really friendly, and shy, person. I gave her the number of the council that helps seniors with all sorts of things, and urged her to call them. She already knew about it, and didn't want me to call them or be with her while she called them. Okay, a person does what they can. Anyway, I really enjoyed her company.

I am a firm believer in that showing you care helps. Not just the person, but also myself. It enriches my life.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

SmoothSeas said:


> Interaction is fine, but it's not something that I NEED or CRAVE...


It is something I need. I love being around lots of people IRL - not particularly fond of large crowds though.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

Nathan said:


> After my last divorce I decided to *not *get involved with anyone for a while, needed to figure out why I kept ending up in disastrous relationships.


Although I do enjoy my own company, I have managed to marry the same man (in a negative way) twice. I will never get married again, should I be free to, and I will involve myself only with friendships (not with benefits). I do not trust my own judgment. Even though I am pretty self-aware, the reasons only come to the forefront after it's too late. The glaring red flags are not noticed until too late either.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> I think loneliness is the saddest, most destructive emotion and believe our culture is largely responsible. Look around at different cultures, they have large extended families and are rarely ever alone. We don’t. They don’t pack their oldies off into nursing homes. We do. I envy those who have never felt lonely, you’re very lucky IMO.


Plus, I have discovered how invisible older people are to the general public. It's freeing, in a way. Knowing that means I can appear in public while my hair is growing out, and still too short and lopsided to make it look "normal", without wearing a cap or a wig. I figured out that I'm mostly invisible, and that anyone wants to know why I look a bit odd, they can ask, no problem.


----------



## Serenity4321 (Oct 28, 2021)

Manatee said:


> My wife has been in hospital/rehab since early March.  We have been married for 62 years, I miss having her around.  Going to visit every day is not the same.


So sorry to hear you going through that. My husband was in rehab for 9 months, then died and the daily trek was depressing and difficult. At one point I was told he would never be leaving there but I kept hoping...we were married 50 years..our 50th was in the SNF. Every day was a challenge as there was always something that needed attention but of course one has to 'pick your battles' since he is in their care. I wish you all the best and hope and pray things to go well for you. God Bless...


----------



## Nathan (Oct 28, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> I do not trust my own judgment. Even though I am pretty self-aware, the reasons only come to the forefront after it's too late. The glaring red flags are not noticed until too late either.


Sounds familiar.   A saying comes to mind:  "the hearts wants what the heart wants."


----------



## oldpop (Oct 28, 2021)

I have always been a loner. However I do not dislike people, enjoy good conversation and do not avoid being around others. I just enjoy my time alone. I can think clearer with out any distractions alone in the quiet of my own thoughts. Plenty of time to think about whatever crosses my mind. It is one of my favorite things about being retired. I do not know about enjoying my own company but I am comfortable in my own skin.


----------



## Serenity4321 (Oct 28, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> I think loneliness is the saddest, most destructive emotion and believe our culture is largely responsible. Look around at different cultures, they have large extended families and are rarely ever alone. We don’t. They don’t pack their oldies off into nursing homes. We do. I envy those who have never felt lonely, you’re very lucky IMO.


I agree loneliness is very sad but I think we ourselves are responsible for our loneliness. We do have a choice....in fact, what and how we think and therefore how we feel is the only real choice we own and that can not be taken away from us..
I have had my Mom live with me and now I live with my daughter but when it comes to larger extended families I can't help but think there would/could be quite a few potential conflicts possible..??


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> I have been a bachelor all of my life by choice. My dad lost my mother from a sudden heart attack and was lost for a period of time after. Then he started dating because he was lonely and I mean lonely. His life was a large family, met my mon a couple years after high school and was deeply in love with her and married he so when he found her dead on the kitchen floor it hit him in a way I will never know. He chose to start dating out of loneliness because life had become what he never knew. The key word is "chose" If life is a burden then try to change it by choosing to not complaining.


Sometimes I am stuck in a rut and don't realize I have viable choices. I wanted to live separately from my husband for decades. But I could not do it. He needed me, which is absolutely true. I needed to be paid child support, which I highly doubt would have ever come to pass, and I didn't want to deprive my children of their father in any way. I also didn't want my children to be raised by other people while I worked at a very time intensive job. Plus, when we married, we promised each other we would never get divorced. That promise has been kept, and I don't know that it will ever be broken.

When I got cancer over a year ago, and started treatment, and considering Covid, I realized that I could move out of my home, and have one of my children live with me. I had to do it. There was no vaccine and my husband did not mask or take any precautions, and he went to stores and restaurants once or twice a day. My immune system was extremely weak. I was too sick to do much of anything, and the house was a germ pit. Household chores, cooking, dog care, and yard work are a woman's jobs, but I am married to a man who believes that, and refuses to temper his beliefs with reality, even when he is physically able.

So it was a good thing, in a way, that I moved out. I have not been happier in decades. True, I had originally planned to move South and buy a house, but that was no longer in the cards. I asked my husband to move back to our dear Southern city, out of concern and loyalty to him, but he said no, and I was secretly glad.

Now that that rut has been broken out of, I am starting to realize that I do have choices. I am not trapped.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

katlupe said:


> I live alone with my pet rabbit in my apartment but I have friends right across the hall, upstairs and downstairs from me. So I can just go knock on a door if I ever wanted to talk to someone. My boyfriend calls me a zillion times a day and I keep doing what I am doing and put him on speaker. It is like he is here. My son comes here almost every day as he lives a block away. I have many friends and family on fakebook that I talk to every day. Plus I live downtown in a small city so I can just walk outside and there are people. The library is across the street and four parks are within walking distance. The arts council is one half of my building and they have Broadway shows, concerts, art classes, etc. all right there too. So no, I never am lonely.


Oh my gosh, you live in paradise. I would love to live in a place that had plays, concerts, art classes and lots of stuff to do. I especially love attending plays. We have an amateur play group here, made of most young adults and children, who do a marvelous job. I especially enjoyed Seussical, my favorite of all time. We also have a community college that has an excellent theater group, and their plays are wonderful too. No professional theater groups nearby, unfortunately, because I love them too. Funnily enough, our community play group (made up of adults of all ages) puts on the most boring plays I have ever been to... except I will never admit that about the ones my daughter was in. I don't know who chooses the plays, but they have awful taste. You can tell by how the theater is never even nearly full.

I also love concerts, even though I've never been to a rock concert ... how I missed that boat, I'll never know. Guess I was too busy working, going to school, and raising kids. And classes ... I love to learn the techniques at least, of things I have no talent for but would love to dabble in just for myself.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Sounds familiar.   A saying comes to mind:  "the hearts wants what the heart wants."


What comes to me is that I am screwed up in the head in this area, particularly. I think of this as a compulsion, or being drawn strongly to men who are not good for me, some kind of psychological problem. One that everyone can see, and if they told me, I denied it.

Being in denial is a real thing, I discovered when I had my triplets at 27 weeks. I didn't even believe they were about to be born. I literally truly thought they would be born on May 31st, no matter what the facts said, and until my primary nurse forced me to read a book about prematurity and its possible outcomes, I didn't even do that. I read the book, but knew, 100%, that none of that would happen to my babies. After they were born, I couldn't believe what I learned from this experience about denial. It definitely didn't seem to be a choice, whether it was or not somewhere in the murkiness of my mind.


----------



## Serenity4321 (Oct 28, 2021)

I really love to watch u-tube videos. In fact, I could watch all day long because they cover every subject imaginable. I also exercise with them. There is so much out there we will never know, so much more we have yet to learn...U-tube can take you all over the world, into history, any subject you can think of  etc etc etc...I love being with people but u-tube is also a 'friend' Then too we are so fortunate to have the internet where whatever question you think of the answer is available at your fingertips.. remember having to research in an encyclopedia??


----------



## officerripley (Oct 28, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Oh my gosh, you live in paradise. I would love to live in a place that had plays, concerts, art classes and lots of stuff to do. I especially love attending plays. We have an amateur play group here, made of most young adults and children, who do a marvelous job. I especially enjoyed Seussical, my favorite of all time. We also have a community college that has an excellent theater group, and their plays are wonderful too. No professional theater groups nearby, unfortunately, because I love them too. Funnily enough, our community play group (made up of adults of all ages) puts on the most boring plays I have ever been to... except I will never admit that about the ones my daughter was in.
> 
> I also love concerts, even though I've never been to a rock concert ... how I missed that boat, I'll never know. Guess I was too busy working, going to school, and raising kids. And classes ... I love to learn the techniques at least, of things I have no talent for but would love to dabble in just for myself.


I agree, it sounds wonderful.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 28, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> friendship group




Every time I go outdoors I easily find one.  Aside from cooking, my one other hobby is watching sports.   Every sporting event I attend is filled with people who like to chat about sports, especially with someone like me who played and coached for so many years. Just do those things you like rather than stay at home feeling sorry for yourself.  

When I don't go outdoors, I take care of myself.  I just finished eating a terrific dinner and watched the NFL on TV along with about 50 million others. Can't be lonely that way. 

Self pity is nothing more than a sign of a low self esteem. If the thought of self care is too much for certain people, then let them seek medical attention or some other form of professional help.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 28, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> invisible




Whenever I get on the city bus the first thing some young person says to me is,  "Sir, would you like to have my seat?" I am very happy to accept their offer.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

Serenity4321 said:


> I really love to watch u-tube videos. In fact, I could watch all day long because they cover every subject imaginable. I also exercise with them. There is so much out there we will never know, so much more we have yet to learn...U-tube can take you all over the world, into history, any subject you can think of  etc etc etc...I love being with people but u-tube is also a 'friend' Then too we are so fortunate to have the internet where whatever question you think of the answer is available at your fingertips.. remember having to research in an encyclopedia??


Every time I decide to watch one youtube video, I end up staying up practically all night watching videos. So I try to avoid it, but that rarely works for long.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 28, 2021)

officerripley said:


> Sounds like you're saying that at least some of those who feel a need to share their despair are immature to need to do so? So concentration camp victims who availed themselves of therapy after being liberated were immature to do so? So those who have lost family and other loved ones to murder, war, etc. and who availed themselves of therapy were immature to do so? So those (some of whom I've known personally) have been laid off after years of faithful service to a !@#$% corporation and who have availed themselves of therapy are immature to do so? I could go on, of course.





On the contrary, I have said that seeking professional help rather than engaging in endless self pity is far more constructive. 

Years ago I spent a weekend with an older couple who had a large cabin in Upstate NY.  To make a long story short, I thought my friend's husband did not like me after she introduced me to him.  Turns out I was wrong - the man cried for me out of sympathy for the terrible life I endured.  The man knew what suffering was like because he survived one of Hitler's death camps.  But as bad as his life was, he thought mine was worse than his because while he was tortured by Nazis he never knew what it was like to be tortured and nearly murdered twice by one's mother the way I was.  Thus, my life was worse than his and worse than Hell.  But to this day I refused to sit around and feel sorry for myself. I have FAR more constructive things to do with my time. I not only preach it, I practice it as well.


----------



## Nathan (Oct 28, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> What comes to me is that I am screwed up in the head in this area, particularly. I think of this as a compulsion, or being drawn strongly to men who are not good for me, some kind of psychological problem. One that everyone can see, and if they told me, I denied it.


Because this statement resonates so strongly with me, I feel obligated to comment:   be kind to yourself and not judge, your path has been well traveled by others.   Everyone has their unique origins, mine happens to be an issue with attachment....see Attachment Theory.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

Serenity4321 said:


> I have had my Mom live with me and now I live with my daughter but when it comes to larger extended families I can't help but think there would/could be quite a few potential conflicts possible..??


The family would have to be a lot alike, I'd think. No people who hate social activities should live with party animals. Negative people should not live with positive people. Slobs should not live with neatniks. People who eat to live shouldn't live with cooks who live to feed people. People who cook should live with other people who cook - although I never have, it's a fantasy. Everyone should chip in and help to the best of their ability -- no gender roles for the chores. People should be able to laugh and joke around and enjoy themselves in their own homes. Loners should be able to be alone to recharge and enjoy being by themselves without masses of people intruding on their "me time". The house would have to be well-decorated. Not maximally, just pretty and comfy.

Personally, I like being a neatnik. Pack rats can cram their bedrooms with stuff and keep the door closed so I don't donate things by accident.
I love a good party, so people who hate socializing can't live with me. I like keeping a pretty happy outlook on life, encouraging people, etc. I love feeding people who love to eat, and I love the idea of living with people who love to cook and bake (and do it well). I am not fond of grumps unless it is their shtick (clowning around, teasing). I like people who love to try new things, love animals, love smiling, love exploring, etc. I don't like people who say, "You are always smiling". So what, it's a good thing! I especially love people who clean up after themselves, and properly - a place for everything, and everything in its place. Not to Felix Unger's specifications - I am not a total stickler, but most of the people I know are either over-cluttered or slobs. I hate clutter, but I like a few well-placed decorations that I love (mostly art hanging on walls).

Now, how to find that all in one large extended family, there's the rub. I don't think pack rats, total loners, negative people, people who eat to live, etc., would particularly like living with me. Vegetarians wouldn't mind, but vegans would. Also the ones who live with me have to not be gluttons. I don't want to be accused of making anyone fat just because they can't control their portion sizes. That has happened. I refuse to be responsible.

I always wanted to live in a commune. But everyone would have to be neat, clean, and tidy. And do work to bring in income. And share chores equally. And have private living quarters, although dining and cooking and cleaning up after would be communal. Of course, I was young and idealistic then (in my 20s). I planned to have a bakery. I didn't realize then how hard the work was. Especially for me, who is usually too lazy to bake, which is why I still fit through all doorways. I love my own baked goods and fudge and chocolate pudding, unfortunately, and I don't control my portion sizes.,,ever. In my head, baking is a time-consuming chore. When I actually do it, it doesn't take much time. But I keep in mind the time-consuming thing, and my laziness shouts Yeah!


----------



## Shero (Oct 28, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> The family would have to be a lot alike, I'd think. No people who hate social activities should live with party animals. Negative people should not live with positive people. Slobs should not live with neatniks. People who eat to live shouldn't live with cooks who live to feed people. People who cook should live with other people who cook - although I never have, it's a fantasy. Everyone should chip in and help to the best of their ability -- no gender roles for the chores. People should be able to laugh and joke around and enjoy themselves in their own homes. Loners should be able to be alone to recharge and enjoy being by themselves without masses of people intruding on their "me time". The house would have to be well-decorated. Not maximally, just pretty and comfy.
> 
> Personally, I like being a neatnik. Pack rats can cram their bedrooms with stuff and keep the door closed so I don't donate things by accident.
> I love a good party, so people who hate socializing can't live with me. I like keeping a pretty happy outlook on life, encouraging people, etc. I love feeding people who love to eat, and I love the idea of living with people who love to cook and bake (and do it well). I am not fond of grumps unless it is their shtick (clowning around, teasing). I like people who love to try new things, love animals, love smiling, love exploring, etc. I don't like people who say, "You are always smiling". So what, it's a good thing! I especially love people who clean up after themselves, and properly - a place for everything, and everything in its place. Not to Felix Unger's specifications - I am not a total stickler, but most of the people I know are either over-cluttered or slobs. I hate clutter, but I like a few well-placed decorations that I love (mostly art hanging on walls).
> ...



Enjoying your post Wheaten and like you I cannot live in a huge extended family situation. During our travels we were invited to spend a few days with an Indonesian family, wonderful, wonderful people. Five generations living in a huge compound and never a dull moment, lots of love and food in abundance,but at the end of the stay, I was dying for privacy!!


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Because this statement resonates so strongly with me, I feel obligated to comment:   be kind to yourself and not judge, your path has been well traveled by others.   Everyone has their unique origins, mine happens to be an issue with attachment....see Attachment Theory.


I think attachment figures into mine, too. I was raised on Air Force bases, and that means leaving friends frequently, and learning to welcome new friends at the next place, then leaving them. Kind of a don't get *too* attached situation - it  only leads to a child's heartbreak. Grades K-12, I attended 12 different schools. There are a lot of Service Brats who agree with this. Friends mean a lot, but not way too much. I could easily move from here, where I do have lots of friends, but frankly, I might not miss them all that much. After all these years, September still feels like the beginning of the year - we moved a lot in September (after school had started in the new place). I always get the urge to move in September. I don't, though.

When I was a kid, I used to think how lucky children were who lived in the same place, the same house, and had the same friends all through school, and who had tons of family living near them. But when my dad did get out of the service, it felt strange to be living among the civilians (as we called non-military families). We were so used to moving and meeting new friends that it was boring to live civilian life. The culture was completely different and hard to get used to.

To this day, my sibling and I rarely talk to one another. It is understood that we love each other and will do anything for each other. We are not big on asking for help, but if it was needed, we would give it, no questions asked. My brother is still miffed at me for not moving to Georgia to have my kids, but he's likely well over it now. Having his only niece and nephews be Yankees doesn't sit well with him. He envisioned a life near them, teaching them to hunt, use guns safely, eat grits, be good old boys plus one Southern lady, and so forth. His daughter learned to hunt at age 7, and bagged her first deer on her first trip. My kids were raised in an area in which if you hunted, it was a secret from non-hunters. Very liberal. Very progressive. Not authoritarian. Very different from the South. His motto is "American by birth, Southern by the grace of God". I think he saw it on a t-shirt.

I still love the South, and have been wanting to move back there ever since I left. My biggest marriage advice now is never leave a place you love, a job you love, friends and family you love, to take on a whole new life with none of those things. If someone doesn't share your vision of a wonderful life, don't marry them.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

Shero said:


> Enjoying your post Wheaten and like you I cannot live in a huge extended family situation. During our travels we were invited to spend a few days with an Indonesian family, wonderful, wonderful people. Five generations living in a huge compound and never a dull moment, lots of love and food in abundance,but at the end of the stay, I was dying for privacy!!


I would have enjoyed it, but been dying for privacy, too, after awhile. It sounds like fun, but man, it includes too many opportunities for over-stimulation. I like being alone, as well as being with lots of people, but the alone time is pretty important to me. I figure I'm about 1/2 introvert and 1/2 extrovert. Right now, being away from people is something I don't dwell on.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 28, 2021)

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=self+love

https://www.google.com/search?q=sel...69i57j69i60.1702j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


No need for self pity.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Whenever I get on the city bus the first thing some young person says to me is,  "Sir, would you like to have my seat?" I am very happy to accept their offer.


Our "city buses" take 1.5 to 2 hours to go 5 miles. No kidding. I never ride them, but my kids did a few times when I wasn't able to give them a ride. This is a small town of 12,000 people.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 28, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Every time I go outdoors I easily find one.  Aside from cooking, my one other hobby is watching sports.   Every sporting event I attend is filled with people who like to chat about sports, especially with someone like me who played and coached for so many years. Just do those things you like rather than stay at home feeling sorry for yourself.
> 
> When I don't go outdoors, I take care of myself.  I just finished eating a terrific dinner and watched the NFL on TV along with about 50 million others. Can't be lonely that way.
> 
> Self pity is nothing more than a sign of a low self esteem. If the thought of self care is too much for certain people, then let them seek medical attention or some other form of professional help.


Self-pity keeps people from moving forward, from making changes that can be scary. I no longer engage in it, to the very best of my ability. I can't think of anything right now that I pity myself about. The best lesson I learned, so far, is to live in the present. The past can't be changed, and no matter what, the future is unknown. I've learned that in the past, but this time it seems to have stuck. If I falter, I think of something else, in the present.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 28, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Self-pity keeps people from moving forward, from making changes that can be scary. I no longer engage in it, to the very best of my ability. I can't think of anything right now that I pity myself about. The best lesson I learned, so far, is to live in the present. The past can't be changed, and no matter what, the future is unknown. I've learned that in the past, but this time it seems to have stuck. If I falter, I think of something else, in the present.









see especially Step 4 @ 1:55 ~ stop complaining as self pity just doesn't work


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> I would have enjoyed it, but been dying for privacy, too, after awhile. It sounds like fun, but man, it includes too many opportunities for over-stimulation. I like being alone, as well as being with lots of people, but the alone time is pretty important to me. I figure I'm about 1/2 introvert and 1/2 extrovert. Right now, being away from people is something I don't dwell on.


My daughter and, family, wanted me to come live with them due to my husband’s recent meltdown; if only I could live near them, not with them.  But Joey keeps me here.  Finances keep with my husband.

I could not live with them though.  Five yapping poodles every minute of every day would drive me nuts, and they wouldn’t let me “do” anything.  You’d think I was old and disabled.  . I tried to do stuff when I was there and it was always “sit down”.  

We have so much in common from what I read, @WheatenLover .  I’ve enjoyed what you have written as well.  I consider myself 1/3 introvert, 1/3 extrovert, and 1/3 I want to hide in a closet and scream a lot.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 29, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Self-pity keeps people from moving forward, from making changes that can be scary. I no longer engage in it, to the very best of my ability. I can't think of anything right now that I pity myself about. The best lesson I learned, so far, is to live in the present. The past can't be changed, and no matter what, the future is unknown. I've learned that in the past, but this time it seems to have stuck. If I falter, I think of something else, in the present.


Well, the future can be predicated based on past events so I disagree.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 29, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, the future can be predicated based on past events so I disagree.


So X predicts his future based on past events. Then he gets crushed by a bus. The unexpected can happen, right out of the blue. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes not good. Predictions of the future are not the same as knowledge of the future. Wish it were so, especially with investments.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 29, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> We have so much in common from what I read, @WheatenLover . I’ve enjoyed what you have written as well. I consider myself 1/3 introvert, 1/3 extrovert, and 1/3 I want to hide in a closet and scream a lot.


Thank you, Aneeda. I fully understand wanting to hide in the closet and scream a lot. I'd have trouble dealing with 5 yapping poodles. I'm assuming since they yap, they must be small, cute, and smart. 

I don't like being told by my kids that I can't do something. I also get tired of my daughter asking me to teach Aidan not to bark. Been there, haven't succeeded.


----------



## horseless carriage (Oct 29, 2021)

oldpop said:


> I have always been a loner. However I do not dislike people, enjoy good conversation and do not avoid being around others. I just enjoy my time alone. I can think clearer with out any distractions alone in the quiet of my own thoughts. Plenty of time to think about whatever crosses my mind. It is one of my favorite things about being retired. I do not know about enjoying my own company but I am comfortable in my own skin.


You come across as a caring kind of person, one who has time for those without the ability that you have to, either engage with others, or simply enjoy life in your own company. It seems at odds therefore, that you find those who find it challenging to engage with others, or be at one when alone, as being enervated. Your obvious energy would be just the metaphoric kick that those without your talents to live alone, and not be lonely, would draw inspiration from.


----------



## Bretrick (Oct 29, 2021)

Serenity4321 said:


> I really love to watch u-tube videos. In fact, I could watch all day long because they cover every subject imaginable. I also exercise with them. There is so much out there we will never know, so much more we have yet to learn...U-tube can take you all over the world, into history, any subject you can think of  etc etc etc...I love being with people but u-tube is also a 'friend' Then too we are so fortunate to have the internet where whatever question you think of the answer is available at your fingertips.. remember having to research in an encyclopedia??


Spending hours in the library cross referencing.
I remember one time I wanted the specifics of a particular law. I was in the library for more
than 3 hours.


----------



## Irwin (Oct 29, 2021)

Loneliness is not about being alone; it's about not feeling connected. It's about wanting to fit in somewhere but not having the ability to do so. It's being helpless to satisfy ones basic intrinsic need for companionship.

Dr. Martin Seligman defined depression as learned helplessness, which is probably pretty accurate in most cases. For some, depression may be a chemical imbalance in the brain, but I think for most depressed individuals, it's learned helplessness. And the more helpless one feels, the more desperate one becomes, and the harder it is to break out of the funk.


----------



## Serenity4321 (Oct 30, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Spending hours in the library cross referencing.
> I remember one time I wanted the specifics of a particular law. I was in the library for more
> than 3 hours.


Those were the 'good ole days' ?? lol, right?  I say wrong ....but I do like libraries..always have..


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 30, 2021)

I also enjoy libraries though I haven't been to one in a while.  So today I decided to give myself a treat.  Usually I go to the corner shop for shrimp salad which, though pricey, is well worth the cost.  Just for fun, I decided to make my own shrimp salad instead.  I tell you in truth that my recipe was ten times more flavorful than the pricier store bought version.  The key being that I added lemon-pepper salt with melted butter and garlic salad dressing. 

Oh soooo YUMMMMMMMMY!!!!

Spending your time cooking and baking is so much better than sitting at home feeling sorry for yourself. Try it folks.  Can't hurt ...


----------



## Bretrick (Oct 30, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I also enjoy libraries though I haven't been to one in a while.  So today I decided to give myself a treat.  Usually I go to the corner shop for shrimp salad which, though pricey, is well worth the cost.  Just for fun, I decided to make my own shrimp salad instead.  I tell you in truth that my recipe was ten times more flavorful than the pricier store bought version.  The key being that I added lemon-pepper salt with melted butter and garlic salad dressing.
> 
> Oh soooo YUMMMMMMMMY!!!!
> 
> Spending your time cooking and baking is so much better than sitting at home feeling sorry for yourself. Try it folks.  Can't hurt ...


I too love cooking. The beauty of home cooking is that one can make each recipe to exactly the flavour we want.
Never know what store bought meals are going to taste like.
I stopped buying ready made meals a long time ago as I found everyone of them to be toooooo salty


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 30, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I also enjoy libraries though I haven't been to one in a while.  So today I decided to give myself a treat.  Usually I go to the corner shop for shrimp salad which, though pricey, is well worth the cost.  Just for fun, I decided to make my own shrimp salad instead.  I tell you in truth that my recipe was ten times more flavorful than the pricier store bought version.  The key being that I added lemon-pepper salt with melted butter and garlic salad dressing.
> 
> Oh soooo YUMMMMMMMMY!!!!
> 
> Spending your time cooking and baking is so much better than sitting at home feeling sorry for yourself. Try it folks.  Can't hurt ...


Well, it can actually, hurt .

You obviously have never eaten my cooking.  As for baking, with a bad spine and balance issues, I could die.  Hansell and Gretal didn’t push the witch into the oven, the witch bent over, lost her balance, fell in, and died due to her age.

Those kids just took credit for the kill.  The beginning of fake news.  . @oldiebutgoody


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 30, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, it can actually, hurt .




But as least you can use your charm and good looks to find some handsome Prince Charming who will sweep you away on his white charger so that you can both live happily thereafter. That way you won't have to cook again.


----------



## RobinWren (Oct 30, 2021)

A few years back there was an article in the paper about a couple who were interested in co housing.   An idea was born, not a new idea because I hear they have this type of housing in New Zealand and there is another project on the island. Each family or couple buys a unit which I think was around $600k . A multi generational building, each family, couple, single lives in their own unit but there is also an area where they can get together for meals, socializing and an outdoor area. For many this might be an ideal way of living.


----------



## Bretrick (Oct 30, 2021)

RobinWren said:


> A few years back there was an article in the paper about a couple who were interested in co housing.   An idea was born, not a new idea because I hear they have this type of housing in New Zealand and there is another project on the island. Each family or couple buys a unit which I think was around $600k . A multi generational building, each family, couple, single lives in their own unit but there is also an area where they can get together for meals, socializing and an outdoor area. For many this might be an ideal way of living.


Interesting concept. Sound basis for "Community Living"


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> But as least you can use your charm and good looks to find some handsome Prince Charming who will sweep you away on his white charger so that you can both live happily thereafter. That way you won't have to cook again.


Unfortunately I just found the horse‘s ass.


----------



## Tom 86 (Oct 31, 2021)

Since my wife passed away I keep busy around the house, but most of all I have my Dog Rosie that keeps me from being 
lonly.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Oct 31, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Unfortunately I just found the horse‘s ass.




diamond studded horse just for you:


----------



## feywon (Oct 31, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Though I may sound harsh in my writings what I am attempting to do is to get people to see that there are ways to overcome the past and the loneliness.
> But to do so, one really does need to make an effort.
> I have overcome my past with coping strategies and I really love the person I have become.


So you think everyone else NEEDS you to show them the way?  You don't come to social media because YOU need the social interaction and the validation of others responding to you but rather because you feel others need  you?  That is what it sounds it like.  You might want to look up  this advice thread, and check out response numbers  18,28, 30, 40, 52 and 54 as they are relevant to this discussion--tho we had a lot of fun with that thread as we often do--each response is numbered in upper right corner "#__".
https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/best-advice-you-can-give….64804/page-3


Thing is you have no clue what some of us may have lived thru or are dealing with currently. i'm a fairly open book, because i share difficulties i learned from and things that give me joy when it is relevant to the OP. People have been known to get confused because i've had a very full life, in a lot of locales and circumstances, many of which might seem contradictory to each other but then i'm a mix of many things--a creative person who is rational, logical but also very compassionate, empathic even. Took me a long time to realize that was ok--whether it makes others uncomfortable because i'm harder to pigeon hole or not.


----------



## Pepper (Oct 31, 2021)

feywon said:


> i'm a fairly open book, because i share difficulties i learned from and things that give me joy when it is relevant to the OP.


I find it difficult to share, although I let out in a sentence or two some stuff.  I used to share a lot with friends, but now I think it has gotten me nowhere and _maybe _some things would have gone differently if I had shut up.  Don't mean to be coy or mysterious.  Some old fashioned English writers like to use the expression "She kept her own counsel" but it's hard to be conversational that way.


----------



## feywon (Oct 31, 2021)

Nathan said:


> After my last divorce I decided to *not *get involved with anyone for a while, needed to figure out why I kept ending up in disastrous relationships.
> ..


That's exactly what i did after my 3rd marriage broke up. By the time i got it figured out, especially understanding what was drawing me into the relationships and that i'd grown out of that need/want, i was at an age where my prospects were slim (unless i wanted to play caregiver to some man that was incapable of being on his own).

i was joking with my daughter that Universe has its little jokes--i finally figure out what would have been a healthier course for me (tho i would not trade my children for anything)  and i'm at an age where chances of being sought after for a mutually satisfying relationship are less than my odds of being struck by lightening.  She quipped--"Given your track record you'd probably prefer the lightening." and she wasn't entirely  wrong.  i could find healthy relationships male friends, but SO's a whole other story.


----------



## Lara (Oct 31, 2021)

How does an Older Person live alone and not get lonely?

They adopt an Older Dog 
(sometimes a better option than humans)


----------



## feywon (Oct 31, 2021)

i almost didn't look at this thread because what is true, what works, for me won't necessarily work for everybody.  i always enjoyed solitude even as a child, my Dad understood that but not my Mom and older sisters who were always pushing me to 'make friends'.  The strongest motivator for me to 'socialize' in my lifetime occurred when my libido was in full  bloom (tho 'force' might be more accurate word) and i did want children in my life.  

But then so often the responses to a thread are more interesting to me than the OP, and the Psychology person in me likes looking at how differently from each other people respond. Usually consistent with what i've already observed of the individuals but every so often you learn something new about someone or they respond in an unexpected way. And the 'side' conversations that spring up are interesting too. To me the best conversations are like good jazz---they start with a theme but each musician plays with the theme, sometimes riffs somewhat far from it for a while only to come back to the beginning notes. 

One more thought i have on the topic---'contentment' while sometimes listed as component of or synonym to happiness or joy (tho i actually see those two things as subtly different from one another--a topic for another time perhaps?)---i see contentment as more a synonym of satisfaction, unrelated to the smile bringing feeling of joy.  Sometimes when we cannot change things we have to be 'satisfied', content with how they are.  That does not keep one from finding some happiness in life or being ambushed by joy.  In this late chapter of my life i've chosen a setting that i know will frequently just gift me with reason to feel elated, joyful. i have but to step out into my yard day or night. The moments are fleeting but they are many.  Many of my happiest moments involving other people have been bittersweet--there was a shadow of loss or grief.  But the moments of joy i find in nature are 'pure' joy, well maybe a bit of awe.


----------



## feywon (Oct 31, 2021)

Pepper said:


> ..but now I think it has gotten me nowhere and _maybe _some things would have gone differently if I had shut up.


1) Where did you want it to get you? Don't mean that snarkily, truly, just genuinely curious about that wording.  i try to confine myself to personal 'stories'  that are relevant to the topic at hand whether in person or on social media.  Sometimes i rant if riled up, sometimes i'm just overwhelmed with a memory and often have a feeling that someone might get something out of it even if not the same thing i did.

2) i was fortunate to learn early in life that we often misread the impact we have on others, both thru words and actions.  While in High School i ran into someone who had belonged to the same handful of social misfits i did during Middle School.  She was an Egyptian immigrant, fairly quiet.  i'd thought back then she didn't care for me.  But she insisted i come home and meet her mother. We had some tea and i learned from her Mom that "Hattie' (the anglicizing of her real name) had frequently talked to her mother about me and not just Hattie but her Mom  saw me as some kind of iconic independent American female, Mom thought knowing me when she did had been helpful for her daughter.  While i might have argued that even as i sat there with them i was still full of insecurities, it dawned on me that i'd been of some use/help to them, even if they weren't seeing me realistically.


----------



## Pepper (Oct 31, 2021)

I was a grad student for what now seems like it was a real long time @feywon.   I studied at well-known Universities, lucky to be respected enough to be granted student status at these institutions. I spent a lot of time reading, researching, but especially writing essays, theses.  Spent a lot of time blabbing,talking, making points.

Prior to this, as an anti-war activist spent so much time speaking, convincing, pontificating, organizing, blah blah.  Always working at it, 24/7.  It was my life.

As a friend, spent so much time sharing, talking, being, scrutinizing.

It all lead to now, all roads led to having my son.  Everything else seems superfluous.  I usually can't put 2 sentences together in a cogent fashion anymore.  I blew my mind out in a car, didn't notice that the light had changed.  After all I have suffered, physically and emotionally, I'm spent.  I envy you, @feywon, that you still have much to say and say it well.

As for now, the best I can do is comment once in a while, then wonder why I spent the energy to communicate.

Being ALONE so long, not necessarily lonely, but alone---going to sleep alone, waking up, Oh No, another day of myself.  It's changed me, and not for the better.  Yes, folks do great things alone, but it's not the desired state for me and I'm conscious of that.


----------



## Wren (Oct 31, 2021)




----------



## feywon (Oct 31, 2021)

Virtual hugs coming your way.  

See that's what i meant about my solutions won't necessarily work for others...but i throw them out there sometimes because maybe they can.

i still sometimes miss my first husband being in the world even tho we were estranged at the time of his death. It hit me hard when our grandson was born. (Dec 2008, 5 days before the 30th anniversary of #1 DH death). Our best times together were each of us reading our own books sometimes sharing ideas sparked by the books. Think Simon & Garfunkel's "Dangling Conversation". But that experience allows me to imagine what it must be like for someone who lost a beloved spouse after 50+ yrs together--either due to dementia or death. So i'm not about to tell them they should just 'let go' the past. 

The past made us who we are now, for good and ill. Sometimes you can't keep the good memories while letting go the bad, because life is rarely so neatly compartmentalized.  And it takes a lot of work to compartmentalize things emotionally for ourselves.


----------



## helenbacque (Oct 31, 2021)

Learn to be your own best friend.


----------



## officerripley (Oct 31, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, it can actually, hurt .
> 
> You obviously have never eaten my cooking.  As for baking, with a bad spine and balance issues, I could die.  Hansell and Gretal didn’t push the witch into the oven, the witch bent over, lost her balance, fell in, and died due to her age.
> 
> Those kids just took credit for the kill.  The beginning of fake news.  . @oldiebutgoody


No kidding, it can hurt, especially those of us who despise cooking, ugh what an ordeal!


----------



## SmoothSeas (Oct 31, 2021)

helenbacque said:


> Learn to be your own best friend.



^QFT...!!!


----------



## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2021)

SmoothSeas said:


> ^QFT...!!!


Which is why I confessed to talking to myself on another thread, me and me discussing a few things .  What does QFT mean?  Neither of us knows


----------



## Pepper (Oct 31, 2021)

Quoted For Truth


----------



## dseag2 (Nov 3, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Well hip hip hooray for the two of you.


Such an insensitive comment to someone who is posting his innermost feelings.    Don't be so superficial.


----------



## dseag2 (Nov 3, 2021)

I am an only child and an introvert.  By some strange twist of fate, I found most of my career in sales so I learned how to interact with others.  There were some I truly liked and some I pretended to like.  

I managed a group of 13 salespeople, perhaps because I was more detached from their drama.  Now that I am retired, I do find a need for some amount of social interaction.  I get that through contacting my previous co-workers and volunteering.  But if I spend a day alone I am just fine.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 4, 2021)

helenbacque said:


> Learn to be your own best friend.




you remind me of the old classic:


https://www.amazon.com/How-Your-Own-Best-Friend/dp/0425286398

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...rome..69i57.4980j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


----------



## Irwin (Nov 4, 2021)

This is my theme song these days...


----------



## Skyking (Nov 8, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I also marvel at the incessant threads about "loneliness" and just cannot understand people's endless obsession with it.  People need to grow up and to grow out of their self made problem.  Like you, I keep busy by reading, cooking, watching sports, cleaning my apartment, watching youtube videos, etc.
> All those tears these people have - yuck.  If only they could see how silly it is to keep crying in public about nothing.


Mother Theresa once said, "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat".  I think she truly saw true loneliness for what it is. I think she was right.


----------



## palides2021 (Nov 8, 2021)

Manatee said:


> My wife has been in hospital/rehab since early March.  We have been married for 62 years, I miss having her around.  Going to visit every day is not the same.


Manatee, I understand you missing her. When my husband passed away, I felt as if a part of me had died. He had literally become an extension of me. We complimented each other so well, and it took me all these years to get used to living by myself again. He was my best friend, my parent, lover, and advisor. When you have a good relationship, it's hard to let go.


----------



## dseag2 (Nov 8, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> Manatee, I understand you missing her. When my husband passed away, I felt as if a part of me had died. He had literally become an extension of me. We complimented each other so well, and it took me all these years to get used to living by myself again. He was my best friend, my parent, lover, and advisor. When you have a good relationship, it's hard to let go.


If there was a Care emoji I would send it.  I can't even imagine.  It must take such strength.  I hope you find this forum cathartic.


----------



## palides2021 (Nov 8, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> If there was a Care emoji I would send it.  I can't even imagine.  It must take such strength.  I hope you find this forum cathartic.


Thank you, dseag2! That's a good word for this forum, cathartic!


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 8, 2021)

Skyking said:


> Mother Theresa once said, "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat".  I think she truly saw true loneliness for what it is. I think she was right.




She should have taken lessons from Gary Zukav:


----------



## Ruthanne (Nov 8, 2021)

I sometimes wonder whoever said we have to be social animals.  I would tell them what I thought about that.

Many a person in history survived on their own with minimal social contact.  I believe I fall in that category.  I prefer aloneness from most other humans.  I just think it's better this way.  People are not so great IMO.


----------



## Judycat (Nov 9, 2021)

After my husband died I became fearful of being alone, but I still had my daughter. When my daughter died I became even more worried. 

I went to a therapist. Got a lot of you should do this, you should do that. I didn't want to do anything, my husband and daughter were gone.

 I quit going to the therapist and decided to carve out a life for myself. I'm doing ok with that. What bothers me most is someone telling me I shouldn't be alone. I call that a cheap shot because it usually comes from people who still have family living with them.  

I met my sister-in-law in the store the other day. Her husband died very recently. I asked her if people were saying, and telling her to do stupid things. She looked so relieved and said yes. Some one told her to sell the chair her husband sat in, that getting rid of it would be good for her. Well she found comfort in having it there. I told her I still have my husband's chair too. I never sit in it because that's his and I have no intention of getting rid of it. 

People need to know they're OK more than where they fall on the loneliness scale according to some arbitrary rules of life. Just sayin', someday it could be you.


----------



## Bretrick (Nov 9, 2021)

Judycat said:


> After my husband died I became fearful of being alone, but I still had my daughter. When my daughter died I became even more worried.
> 
> I went to a therapist. Got a lot of you should do this, you should do that. I didn't want to do anything, my husband and daughter were gone.
> 
> ...


So true. Having never been married, many people tell me I should find a partner so I will not be alone as I age.
My whole being for living is to be out in the deep bush with nature and the critters.
Why would I need someone to be with me when I am at peace alone in the bush?


----------



## Judycat (Nov 9, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> So true. Having never been married, many people tell me I should find a partner so I will not be alone as I age.
> My whole being for living is to be out in the deep bush with nature and the critters.
> Why would I need someone to be with me when I am at peace alone in the bush?


Nothing like peace and quiet. I'm not looking for live-in company either.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 11, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> I have lived alone for more than 30 years and in all that time I have never been lonely.
> Some people do not need others around them to enjoy life.
> While others have this compulsion to talk for talking's sake. To engage non stop in chit chat.
> My method to stave off loneliness is to have a huge variety of interests. Be it Jigsaw Puzzles, crosswords, reading both fiction(horror) and non fiction books.
> ...


You could get out into the Nullarbor with a spade, dig a shallow hole and sit in it for a while but I'm not sure if that'll make you happy or depressed.


----------



## S. Mary Cole (Nov 11, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> I have lived alone for more than 30 years and in all that time I have never been lonely.
> Some people do not need others around them to enjoy life.
> While others have this compulsion to talk for talking's sake. To engage non stop in chit chat.
> My method to stave off loneliness is to have a huge variety of interests. Be it Jigsaw Puzzles, crosswords, reading both fiction(horror) and non fiction books.
> ...


The reason you don't get lonely is (to me at least) you like yourself and enjoy your own company!  Wouldn't it be great if others followed suit?


----------



## Bretrick (Nov 11, 2021)

Verisure said:


> You could get out into the Nullarbor with a spade, dig a shallow hole and sit in it for a while but I'm not sure if that'll make you happy or depressed.


No need to dig a hole.
There are many Limestone caves along the length of the Nullabor Plain.








[


----------



## Bretrick (Nov 11, 2021)

S. Mary Cole said:


> The reason you don't get lonely is (to me at least) you like yourself and enjoy your own company!  Wouldn't it be great if others followed suit?


I have said that for many years. I like myself and I can amuse myself with a myriad of pursuits best done alone. For me at least.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 11, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I also marvel at the incessant threads about "loneliness" and just cannot understand people's endless obsession with it.  People need to grow up and to grow out of their self made problem.  Like you, I keep busy by reading, cooking, watching sports, cleaning my apartment, watching youtube videos, etc.
> All those tears these people have - yuck.  If only they could see how silly it is to keep crying in public about nothing.


*What?! "Being lonely" has little to do with 'keeping busy'.*


----------



## Verisure (Nov 11, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> No need to dig a hole.
> There are many Limestone caves along the length of the Nullabor Plain.
> 
> 
> ...


There are too many distractions in caves.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 11, 2021)

S. Mary Cole said:


> The reason you don't get lonely is (to me at least) you like yourself and enjoy your own company!  Wouldn't it be great if others followed suit?


Now ain't that a hoot. If I say that I'll be accused of being "arrogant".


----------



## Pepper (Nov 12, 2021)

Irwin said:


> This is my theme song these days...


Then you got the song wrong.  Paul Simon is bemoaning his condition and the lies he must tell himself to endure.


----------



## officerripley (Nov 12, 2021)

Humans spent thousands of years evolving into a species that then spent another at least 25,000 years (some think it was closer to 50,000 years) after they had become homo sapiens (i.e., same brains we have now, they're pretty sure) living in those close-quatered hunter/gatherer tribes, wherein it appears that only the first 3 or 4 hours a day were spent hunting or gathering; the rest of the days were spent back at the main campsite gossiping, in other words the dreaded (by some apparently) chit chat. So enjoying the company of other humans and chit chat seems to be the natural condition for humans. Those of us who would rather be alone all the time are outliers. (I don't want to be alone all the time, just occasionally. I'm still an unnatural outlier, though, feels like it anyway and it also feels unhealthy emotionally-wise.  )


----------



## palides2021 (Nov 12, 2021)

officerripley said:


> Humans spent thousands of years evolving into a species that then spent another at least 25,000 years (some think it was closer to 50,000 years) after they had become homo sapiens (i.e., same brains we have now, they're pretty sure) living in those close-quatered hunter/gatherer tribes, wherein it appears that only the first 3 or 4 hours a day were spent hunting or gathering; the rest of the days were spent back at the main campsite gossiping, in other words the dreaded (by some apparently) chit chat. So enjoying the company of other humans and chit chat seems to be the natural condition for humans. Those of us who would rather be alone all the time are outliers. (I don't want to be alone all the time, just occasionally. I'm still an unnatural outlier, though, feels like it anyway and it also feels unhealthy emotionally-wise.  )


I read once that gossip has been linked to a survival process (don't  know if it's true). Gossip was a way to sift out the outliers and those who were worthy of gossip. In other words, if so-and-so did something that was not accepted by society, they would be talked about.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 12, 2021)

Verisure said:


> What?! "Being lonely" has little to do with 'keeping busy'.




To each their own.  As for me, I subscribe to the old adage that _ busy hands are happy hands_.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> To each their own.  As for me, I subscribe to the old adage that _ busy hands are happy hands_.


Loneliness is not a physical ailment.


----------



## palides2021 (Nov 12, 2021)

Verisure said:


> Loneliness is not a physical ailment.


You're right, Verisure, but keeping active also occupies the mind. After my husband passed away, I kept busy so I wouldn't mourn the loss or feel lonely. It kept my mind occupied and helped alleviate anxieties. Also, have you heard about the mind-body connection? It has been shown that the mind can really affect the body.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 12, 2021)

If *“Grow up! Quit feeling sorry for yourself! Get a hobby!”* is the only advice we are willing to offer the lonely people who are reading this thread then we lack sympathy as a forum and I am ashamed to be part of it.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 12, 2021)

Verisure said:


> If *“Grow up! Quit feeling sorry for yourself! Get a hobby!”* is the only advice we are willing to offer the lonely people who are reading this thread then we lack sympathy as a forum and I am ashamed to be part of it.









Dunno why you feel that way but it's your right to do so.

As for me, I've been alone all my life. While you may not be able to control what happens to you or your circumstances in life (and as I've posted enough times, my life is been a very bad one), one is generally free to deal with it as they wish.  Now, if some wealthy heiress wishes to walk into my life, she is free to do so.  But I won't hold my breath waiting for her to make an appearance.  That's a promise


----------



## Tom 86 (Nov 12, 2021)

Get a dog.  Especially older dogs in shelters will give you lots of love & companionship.  I have Rosie hat's 10.5 years old Beagle/terrier mix.  She is sure a lot of company.  I can talk to her & she will turn her head like she is trying to understand what I'm saying.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 12, 2021)

Verisure said:


> If *“Grow up! Quit feeling sorry for yourself! Get a hobby!”* is the only advice we are willing to offer the lonely people who are reading this thread then we* lack sympathy* as a forum and I am ashamed to be part of it.





oldiebutgoody said:


> Dunno why you feel that way .....


I know *why* you "dunno".


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 12, 2021)

Verisure said:


> I know *why* you "dunno".





We have a bulletin board next to our mailbox in the building I live in.  There are five advertisements from groups that assist seniors.  They offer shopping trips, assisted living with household chores, weekly or periodic phone calls, classes in crafts, bingo, and other activities.  Like most cities in the USA there are churches everywhere in my neighborhood - there is a very large community center on the same block that I  live on and a church just across the street from it.   (I well remember my days in Brooklyn New York where there were areas such as Park Slope where there is a church in every corner.)  Every church has senior groups. We have endless fraternal groups such as Masons, Knights of Columbus, Optimist Clubs, Eagles, American Legion, and so on. There are disability advocacy groups and government agencies who also provide help to anyone who needs it.    How can anyone be "lonely" with all this on their side?


----------



## officerripley (Nov 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> We have a bulletin board next to our mailbox in the building I live in.  There are five advertisements from groups that assist seniors.  They offer shopping trips, assisted living with household chores, weekly or periodic phone calls, classes in crafts, bingo, and other activities.  Like most cities in the USA there are churches everywhere in my neighborhood - there is a very large community center on the same block that I  live on and a church just across the street from it.   (I well remember my days in Brooklyn New York where there were areas such as Park Slope where there is a church in every corner.)  Every church has senior groups. We have endless fraternal groups such as Masons, Knights of Columbus, Optimist Clubs, Eagles, American Legion, and so on. There are disability advocacy groups and government agencies who also provide help to anyone who needs it.    How can anyone be "lonely" with all this on their side?


Because a lot of us live in areas where, even before Covid, there was next to nothing offered to help seniors--my area doesn't even have and has never had a Seniors Center, just a sparsely-staffed branch of Area on Aging--and Covid of course shut down what little there was. What a lot of people don't realize is that there are several areas of the U.S. where it's in some ways pretty much like the old wild west: the only socializing on offer is to go to church or a bar and for those of us who are atheist and don't drink and as around here, it's too hot and smoky about 9 months out of the year to even go for a walk, that leaves nothing in the way of socializing. So thank goodness for the internet, books and tv. I would love to have someone to talk to IRL about anything other than their grandkids or Jesus, but oh well.


----------



## officerripley (Nov 12, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> Get a dog.  Especially older dogs in shelters will give you lots of love & companionship.  I have Rosie hat's 10.5 years old Beagle/terrier mix.  She is sure a lot of company.  I can talk to her & she will turn her head like she is trying to understand what I'm saying.


As much as I love dogs, it's best not to get a dog if you're elderly since then you'll have to worry about who'll take the dog if it outlives you. And the response to that I always hear of "Oh, well, then, get a dog that's old too." Oh, great: then at this tired, old, sad age I got having to tearfully put another dog to sleep to look forward to; yeah, no thanks, already been through too much of that.


----------



## Remy (Nov 12, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> I have a question for those of you who have said they are comfortable living alone -
> What brings you here to the Senior Forum? Isn't it a way of socializing? Just curious. I feel
> like kindred spirits are here, so I keep coming back.


Yes, it is socialization and interaction with others. That is true. I find work, because it's very stressful for me, to be not a place where I socialize or enjoy the company of those I work with. I sometimes smile at people I actually do not like. Some of them I do like, but it's work, my survival and so I leave it at that.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 12, 2021)

officerripley said:


> Because a lot of us live in areas where, even before Covid, there was next to nothing offered to help seniors--my area doesn't even have and has never had a Seniors Center, just a sparsely-staffed branch of Area on Aging--and Covid of course shut down what little there was. What a lot of people don't realize is that there are several areas of the U.S. where it's in some ways pretty much like the old wild west: the only socializing on offer is to go to church or a bar and for those of us who are atheist and don't drink and as around here, it's too hot and smoky about 9 months out of the year to even go for a walk, that leaves nothing in the way of socializing. So thank goodness for the internet, books and tv. I would love to have someone to talk to IRL about anything other than their grandkids or Jesus, but oh well.




Over the 30+ years that I've lived in Minnesota, I have passed thru many small towns here and in Wisconsin  where (as they say) you could throw a stone from one end to the other. Every one has signs when you enter which read "Free and Accepted Masons" or some other such fraternal groups. 

Does your town have this:











As for IRLs, there are plenty on Twitch.com and others on youtube. I'm on both every day and often communicate with the channel hosts or with subscribers.


----------



## officerripley (Nov 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Over the 30+ years that I've lived in Minnesota, I have passed thru many small towns here and in Wisconsin  where (as they say) you could throw a stone from one end to the other. Every one has signs when you enter which read "Free and Accepted Masons" or some other such fraternal groups.
> 
> Does your town have this:
> 
> ...


I guess not because I don't recognize any of those signs. I think there used to be a Kiwanis Club but it was just for retired business_men_. (I wasn't even a _business_woman. ) There also used to be a grandmothers' club but I think all the members died. There are about 4 meetup.com groups around here but the 2 that I was interested in are all people who are at least 20 years younger than I and always wanting to do activities that I'm too old for (driving, going to the movies, activism that involves a lot of physicality, etc.). I really liked the gals in the 2 groups I tried but since they are so much younger than I they were all very (justifiably) involved with their careers, elderly parents, kids, significant others and I even managed to get the cold shoulder from one who dislikes Boomers. (She's right; we Boomers had a chance to do something about the environment especially--our generation was the first whose attention it was brought to--but too many of us didn't.) And the library had a book club I went to for a while but the other members (a lot of wealthy older ladies) were always getting offended ("It had the F-word in it!" Or "It had homosexual people in it!") by most of the books I suggested.


----------



## Shero (Nov 12, 2021)

Sratching around for something to do to avert lonliness is a short term thing. For long term. start on the inside, meditate, go where there are meditators. Unravel what is happenng inside, then when you have a little idea, look around for something that interests you. Okay, I am done here


----------



## officerripley (Nov 12, 2021)

Shero said:


> Sratching around for something to do to avert lonliness is a short term thing. For long term. start on the inside, meditate, go where there are meditators. Unravel what is happenng inside, then when you have a little idea, look around for something that interests you. Okay, I am done here


I think meditation can be good unless you're "allergic" to it like me; all it ever did for me was bore me almost to tears or else make me feel anxious; I get enough of that without meditating.   

The more I think about it, I really think I agree with some advice I got a few years ago: someone said to me, "You know, with the hobbies you enjoy and the political leanings you have, and the fact that you're an atheist (agnostic on bad days, lol) and an environmentalist whose favorite outdoor activity is going back inside, I think you'd be happier (or happy at all!) in or very near a big city." Boy, don't I know it! I was born and raised near a big city and the older I get, the more I miss it, but even if we could afford it, Huzz would never in a million years move to somewhere like that. So here I stay. I think I'm a member of a really large club; most of the elderly women I know, both IRL and online, especially if they're still married, are not happy where they live but can't afford or convince their huzz'es to move. If you live long enough, old age really sucks, sigh.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> oldiebutgoddy doesn't fell lonely then no one else shoiudWe have a bulletin board next to our mailbox in the building I live in.  There are five advertisements from groups that assist seniors.  They offer shopping trips, assisted living with household chores, weekly or periodic phone calls, classes in crafts, bingo, and other activities.  Like most cities in the USA there are churches everywhere in my neighborhood - there is a very large community center on the same block that I  live on and a church just across the street from it.   (I well remember my days in Brooklyn New York where there were areas such as Park Slope where there is a church in every corner.)  Every church has senior groups. We have endless fraternal groups such as Masons, Knights of Columbus, Optimist Clubs, Eagles, American Legion, and so on. There are disability advocacy groups and government agencies who also provide help to anyone who needs it.   * How can anyone be "lonely" with all this on their side?*


Yes, despite your* rhetorical question *_"How can anyone be "lonely" with all this on their side?"_ *you still 'dunno' *because you are talking about yourself and are insensitive to those who suffer from loneliness. The conscientious concern is not "If oldiebutgoody is not lonely then no one else should be". No, the conscientious concern is "loneliness exists despite all this on their side so we need to understand why that is". I can think of several reasons off the top of my head so it isn't very difficult to understand ..... if you wanted to.


----------



## Shero (Nov 12, 2021)

officerripley said:


> I think meditation can be good unless you're "allergic" to it like me; all it ever did for me was bore me almost to tears or else make me feel anxious; I get enough of that without meditating.
> 
> The more I think about it, I really think I agree with some advice I got a few years ago: someone said to me, "You know, with the hobbies you enjoy and the political leanings you have, and the fact that you're an atheist (agnostic on bad days, lol) and an environmentalist whose favorite outdoor activity is going back inside, I think you'd be happier (or happy at all!) in or very near a big city." Boy, don't I know it! I was born and raised near a big city and the older I get, the more I miss it, but even if we could afford it, Huzz would never in a million years move to somewhere like that. So here I stay. I think I'm a member of a really large club; most of the elderly women I know, both IRL and online, especially if they're still married, are not happy where they live but can't afford or convince their huzz'es to move. If you live long enough, old age really sucks, sigh.



Yes, that is a dilemma, especially in older age, having to live where you rather not. Hopefully one day your husband will change his mind.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 12, 2021)

Shero said:


> *Sratching around for something to do to avert lonliness is a short term thing*. .....................


Exactly.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 12, 2021)

officerripley said:


> I guess not because I don't recognize any of those signs. I think there used to be a Kiwanis Club but it was just for retired business_men_. (I wasn't even a _business_woman. ) There also used to be a grandmothers' club but I think all the members died. There are about 4 meetup.com groups around here but the 2 that I was interested in are all people who are at least 20 years younger than I and always wanting to do activities that I'm too old for (driving, going to the movies, activism that involves a lot of physicality, etc.). I really liked the gals in the 2 groups I tried but since they are so much younger than I they were all very (justifiably) involved with their careers, elderly parents, kids, significant others and I even managed to get the cold shoulder from one who dislikes Boomers. (She's right; we Boomers had a chance to do something about the environment especially--our generation was the first whose attention it was brought to--but too many of us didn't.) And the library had a book club I went to for a while but the other members (a lot of wealthy older ladies) were always getting offended ("It had the F-word in it!" Or "It had homosexual people in it!") by most of the books I suggested.




Every Mason group has a female auxiliary.  I can hardly believe you were not aware of this.  Dunno what else I could suggest.  But as Rosseau once said, we must all cultivate our gardens.  Perhaps there is something you can do at home to help the hours pass along. If I had my own house I'd be planting, gardening, harvesting, and preserving goodies all the times.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 12, 2021)

Verisure said:


> Yes, despite your* rhetorical question *_"How can anyone be "lonely" with all this on their side?"_ *you still 'dunno' *because you are talking about yourself and are insensitive to those who suffer from loneliness. The conscientious concern is not "If oldiebutgoody is not lonely then no one else should be". No, the conscientious concern is "loneliness exists despite all this on their side so we need to understand why that is". I can think of several reasons off the top of my head so it isn't very difficult to understand ..... if you wanted to.




Sorry my replies offend you as that certainly was not my intention.  As for me, I've been alone all my life and have never been lonely for a minute.  There's a great big world out there and since we have but one life to live, let's make the most of it.


----------



## Ruthanne (Nov 12, 2021)

officerripley said:


> I think meditation can be good unless you're "allergic" to it like me; all it ever did for me was bore me almost to tears or else make me feel anxious; I get enough of that without meditating.
> 
> The more I think about it, I really think I agree with some advice I got a few years ago: someone said to me, "You know, with the hobbies you enjoy and the political leanings you have, and the fact that you're an atheist (agnostic on bad days, lol) and an environmentalist whose favorite outdoor activity is going back inside, I think you'd be happier (or happy at all!) in or very near a big city." Boy, don't I know it! I was born and raised near a big city and the older I get, the more I miss it, but even if we could afford it, Huzz would never in a million years move to somewhere like that. So here I stay. I think I'm a member of a really large club; most of the elderly women I know, both IRL and online, especially if they're still married, are not happy where they live but can't afford or convince their huzz'es to move. If you live long enough, old age really sucks, sigh.


Been reading your replies.  Your tone suggests to me that you are having a rough time of it for some reason unknown to me.  I really hope you find something good and positive to bring you out of it.


----------



## officerripley (Nov 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Every Mason group has a female auxiliary.  I can hardly believe you were not aware of this.  Dunno what else I could suggest.  But as Rosseau once said, we must all cultivate our gardens.  Perhaps there is something you can do at home to help the hours pass along. If I had my own house I'd be planting, gardening, harvesting, and preserving goodies all the times.


I do like to read, watch movies, and play games on the computer which do help to pass the hours along but I really like sharing things with people who are interested in at least a few of the things (sociology, anthropology, feminism, archeology, astronomy) I'm interested in; I really miss having someone to share things with. Huzz and I do still share a little bit but we can't talk about politics anymore because we've become on opposite sides and about the only other things he likes to talk about is golf which I hate. Once in a while we'll watch a movie that we both like, usually though one of us will like it and the other one won't.

More and more, my dream of the perfect life would be in a sophisticated, big city apartment (kind of like the Bob Newhart show, remember that one, with Suzanne Pleshette?) and Huzz says that sounds like hell to him, so oh well.


----------



## officerripley (Nov 12, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> Been reading your replies.  Your tone suggests to me that you are having a rough time of it for some reason unknown to me.  I really hope you find something good and positive to bring you out of it.


Thanks, Ruthanne. I hope for something positive too. One thing that I think would help would be to move out of this big place into somewhere just slightly smaller, closer to town and places I could walk to since I don't drive much anymore and I'll think that maybe Huzz will be starting to come around and I get my hopes up and then he doubles down again on staying here ("I'm only leaving here feet-first!") and then I'm even lower than I was before. (He did that yesterday.) I really need to stop getting my hopes up; it's too hard when I get let down again, I'm getting way too old for this.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 12, 2021)

Shero said:


> Sratching around for something to do to avert lonliness is a short term thing. For long term. start on the inside, meditate, go where there are meditators. Unravel what is happenng inside, then when you have a little idea, look around for something that interests you. Okay, I am done here




You make a good point in that according to the medical field loneliness is often caused by low self esteem and other medical issues:  https://www.google.com/search?q=low...hUKEwj4zNHYrJT0AhWTXc0KHbKuCsgQ4dUDCA8&uact=5

The best place to start on the road to recovery is at the doctor's office.


----------



## dseag2 (Nov 12, 2021)

Shero said:


> Sratching around for something to do to avert lonliness is a short term thing. For long term. start on the inside, meditate, go where there are meditators. Unravel what is happenng inside, then when you have a little idea, look around for something that interests you. Okay, I am done here


I couldn't agree more.  I was forced to retire at 63 due to Covid.  Although it happened when I was much younger than I expected, I knew there was little likelihood that I could get back into the workforce.  I honestly wasn't sure how I would handle going from 60 to 0 in a month, so I started going to the lake near our house and reading self-help books.  I guess I meditate to some degree because I just take in nature and marvel at the scenery.  Everyone talks about being "in the moment", but I actually heard a group of birds chattering and when I looked up they were a group of beautiful green Parakeets.  I would have never noticed them when I was working. 

My goal in life when I worked was to make my employer happy and to make money.  It is now to be a better and happier version of myself.


----------



## Shalimar (Nov 12, 2021)

Interesting thread, many well thought out replies. I certainly have experienced periods of loneliness in my life, and continue to do so. These feelings  were never truly alleviated by filling up my days with other things. I don’t believe this was because I lacked purpose or hobbies, nor do I believe it was a self esteem issue. I definitely  don’t believe it was a form of self pity,

or a lack of self discipline.  Certainly the meditation I have practiced twice daily since the age of twenty has many positive effects, but curing loneliness is not among them. For some of us, meaningful interactions with others is an essential part of our emotional and mental well-being. That is how we are wired, and it is every bit as normal as the opposite end of the spectrum where some people are virtually content with no other company than their own.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Sorry my replies offend you as that certainly was not my intention.  As for me, I've been alone all my life and have never been lonely for a minute.  There's a great big world out there and since we have but one life to live, let's make the most of it.


It is not me you offend but those suffering from loneliness who've spotted the title of this thread and clicked on it hoping to find a way to elevate their pain, but here you are literally calling it a *"self-made problem"* and telling them to *"grow up"*, *get over it*, and *stop feeling sorry for themselves*. There is *no substitute* for human contact, a touch, a smile so if your best advice is for them to get a hobby then you understand nothing and you should not be giving advice to anyone.


----------



## Shero (Nov 12, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Interesting thread, many well thought out replies. I certainly have experienced periods of loneliness in my life, and continue to do so. These feelings  were never truly alleviated by filling up my days with other things. I don’t believe this was because I lacked purpose or hobbies, nor do I believe it was a self esteem issue. I definitely  don’t believe it was a form of self pity,
> 
> or a lack of self discipline.  Certainly the meditation I have practiced twice daily since the age of twenty has many positive effects, but curing loneliness is not among them. For some of us, meaningful interactions with others is an essential part of our emotional and mental well-being. That is how we are wired, and it is every bit as normal as the opposite end of the spectrum where some people are virtually content with no other company than their own.


.
You misunderstand - no one is saying meditation cures lonliness!! It is a tool to be used together with other tools.


----------



## Shero (Nov 12, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> I couldn't agree more.  I was forced to retire at 63 due to Covid.  Although it happened when I was much younger than I expected, I knew there was little likelihood that I could get back into the workforce.  I honestly wasn't sure how I would handle going from 60 to 0 in a month, so I started going to the lake near our house and reading self-help books.  I guess I meditate to some degree because I just take in nature and marvel at the scenery.  Everyone talks about being "in the moment", but I actually heard a group of birds chattering and when I looked up they were a group of beautiful green Parakeets.  I would have never noticed them when I was working.
> 
> My goal in life when I worked was to make my employer happy and to make money.  It is now to be a better and happier version of myself.


Love that you managed to turn your life around with so much success. Good for you


----------



## Verisure (Nov 12, 2021)

Shero said:


> You misunderstand - no one is saying meditation cures lonliness!! It is a tool to be used together with other tools.


That's right. Loneliness and finding inner strength are two different things.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 12, 2021)

Verisure said:


> There is *no substitute* for human contact, a touch, a smile so if your best advice is for them to get a hobby then you understand nothing and you should not be giving advice to anyone.




I see it as setting an example. Speaking for myself, it's how I deal with life and if you read what others say it is what they do as well.  Anyone with the problem needs to see a doctor as shown in that last link I posted.


----------



## dseag2 (Nov 12, 2021)

Verisure said:


> It is not me you offend but those suffering from loneliness who've spotted the title of this thread and clicked on it hoping to find a way to elevate their pain, but here you are literally calling it a *"self-made problem"* and telling them to *"grow up"*, *get over it*, and *stop feeling sorry for themselves*. There is *no substitute* for human contact, a touch, a smile so if your best advice is for them to get a hobby then you understand nothing and you should not be giving advice to anyone.


Edited.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> ..... Speaking for myself ......


Yes, exactly. Your criticism against "the lonely" is highly insensitive.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 12, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> he apologized. He clearly has a different experience from those who are truly lonely so can we just agree to disagree? Again, I agree with your comments but no need to attack him.



Bingo


----------



## officerripley (Nov 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> You make a good point in that according to the medical field loneliness is often caused by low self esteem and other medical issues:  https://www.google.com/search?q=low+self+esteem+and+mental+deficiency+causes+loneliness&rlz=1CAKSOU_enUS772US772&sxsrf=AOaemvKVOkmKj11MsZu1yAuk2jnvd0GfTQ:1636772493955&ei=jSqPYbjSOZO7tQay3arADA&oq=low+self+esteem+and+mental+deficiency+causes+loneliness&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6CAgAEIAEELADOgcIABCwAxAeOgkIABCwAxAIEB46BggAEAcQHjoECAAQDToICAAQCBAHEB46CAgAEA0QBRAeOgUIABDNAjoECCEQCkoECEEYAVCqB1j9dmDOemgBcAB4AYABxASIAdRIkgENMC4yNC4xMi42LjAuMZgBAKABAcgBCsABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwj4zNHYrJT0AhWTXc0KHbKuCsgQ4dUDCA8&uact=5
> 
> The best place to start on the road to recovery is at the doctor's office.


I tried the doctor (a GP) and asked if he could prescribe something for me for the loneliness. He said you don't need medication, you need therapy. So he sent me to a therapist and she said, "You're lonely, huh? Go to church." I said, "I'm an atheist" and she took a step back from me and frowned. That was at my second session with her; I never went back.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 12, 2021)

officerripley said:


> I tried the doctor (a GP) and asked if he could prescribe something for me for the loneliness. He said you don't need medication, you need therapy. So he sent me to a therapist and she said, "You're lonely, huh? Go to church." I said, "I'm an atheist" and she took a step back from me and frowned. That was at my second session with her; I never went back.


As I was saying .....


Verisure said:


> ....... There is *no substitute* for human contact, a touch, a smile .....


Meeting other people face-to-face is the only remedy but it isn't as easy as it sounds for someone suffering from loneliness because their condition is usually the consequence of their own personal experience, particularly the failure of a relationship. So, while inner dissatisfaction can be remedied by being active, loneliness can only be cured by human contact but sticking you into a room full of bible-bashers has the opposite effect and will only drive you into disappointment.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 12, 2021)

officerripley said:


> I tried the doctor (a GP) and asked if he could prescribe something for me for the loneliness. He said you don't need medication, you need therapy. So he sent me to a therapist and she said, "You're lonely, huh? Go to church." I said, "I'm an atheist" and she took a step back from me and frowned. That was at my second session with her; I never went back.




I used to know folks from freedomfromreligion group. Very intellectual types and they are very good at conversations about religion and separation of church and state.  I wonder if they still have lectures and other public presentations.  If so, you may want to attend and meet like minded people.


----------



## officerripley (Nov 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I used to know folks from freedomfromreligion group. Very intellectual types and they are very good at conversations about religion and separation of church and state.  I wonder if they still have lectures and other public presentations.  If so, you may want to attend and meet like minded people.


I did attend a group like that for a while, but as I said above, they were all quite a bit younger than I, very nice folks but we had little in common. I do enjoy being around people younger than I--not too much younger; I don't want to have to change somebody's diapers   --but I long sometimes for a friend closer in age to me but almost everyone elderly in this area is very religious and if female a grandma and very wrapped up in her grandkids. (Which is actually cool; I wish my grandmothers had been the doting kind but no, one was scared of my grandpa and her own shadow and the other one was a bible-thumping, fire and brimstone nutcase. But I would like to talk about something other than their grandkids once in a while.)


----------



## dseag2 (Nov 12, 2021)

I completely agree with others who have said it is necessary to feel comfortable with yourself to overcome loneliness.  It is just like in relationships... when you are happy with yourself you will be happy with someone else.  

With that said, even though I am an introvert I need occasional social contact.  I have been volunteering at our local arboretum. I've met some other volunteers who have interesting stories to share.  I love hearing others' stories and what motivates them.


----------



## oldpop (Nov 13, 2021)

Removed BY OP......


----------



## Brummie (Nov 13, 2021)

I like alone time but I like to share ideas with others.
Plus don't people who like being alone want to matter to someone .
It seems to always be alone would be awful,esp holidays,being admiited to the hospital etc,
Hard for me to understand/ Oh well!!


----------



## Bretrick (Nov 13, 2021)

Brummie said:


> I like alone time but I like to share ideas with others.
> Plus don't people who like being alone want to matter to someone .
> It seems to always be alone would be awful,esp holidays,being admiited to the hospital etc,
> Hard for me to understand/ Oh well!!


I think conditioning has a lot to do with it. When I look back, I have been alone since my father died back in 1986.
Even before then I had shunned those who had spurned me and I only stayed in my home town to look after my father. 
With him gone there was nothing keeping me there so I went as far away as I could.
I preferred to be alone, at least that way there was no chance of being used and abused.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 18, 2021)

characteristics of people who like to be alone but are never lonely:








many great comments are posted there by the viewers


----------



## Bretrick (Nov 18, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> characteristics of people who like to be alone but are never lonely:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting this.
So much said here is certainly true when pertaining to myself.
This is why I like who I have become


----------



## mellowyellow (Nov 18, 2021)

I envy people with big families and wish I had 12 siblings.


----------



## Bretrick (Nov 18, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> I envy people with big families and wish I had 12 siblings.


I had 4 siblings and it was not all chocolates and roses.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 18, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> I had 4 siblings and it was not all chocolates and roses.




I had only one, thankfully.  Even his own mother and his only son said he was the worst SOB who ever walked the earth.


----------



## David777 (Nov 18, 2021)

After posting a brief anthropological input on human nature on Page 2 post #45, I stayed away from this thread until now as have just re-read every post.  

Despite a successful career in hardware electronics, at one point in my 30's considered a career change given a natural aptitude understanding how others think.  So I began taking community college introductory courses in psychology, logic, and other communication areas.  At some point I came to realize I did not have the patience being around various people with behaviors that annoyed me so it would be unwise to work in a field like psychology if the job involved changing others problematic behaviors.  One can clearly intelligently explain to some what, why, how of whatever their issue is but unless they want to change, they are likely to ignore advice.  That is especially true with the epidemic of substance abuse and those many with poor interpersonal communication skills.

Although one can be content being alone and occupied with whatever while not regularly feeling lonely about one's situation, it is abnormal for our evolved gregarious species.  In this era given the wide range of individual situations, there are many seniors that have to deal with being alone.  Because of the wide range of situations and personalities, what is best for one senior may not work for another.  A senior that spent much of their lives relatively content and occupied mostly alone will view the issue differently than another person that interacted greatly with others during their lives.  People need to understand that. 

In our current technological era we have television, radio, Internet, smartphones, that can fill part of the gregarious void though will never be the same as personal face to face verbal communication our brains evolved for.  That is a ongoing controversial subject now for those young adults that are dominated by smartphones.  Much face to face human communication is non-verbal in the sub-conscious, especially interpreting mannerisms and subtle facial expressions and tones in another's voice and then reacting in kind communicating so to others.  All these tech era devices lack non-verbal interactions to various degrees thus stunt or atrophe normal brain functionality if not regularly engaged.  

Our human brains are incredibly plastic that current cognitive neuroscience has shown is significantly different than what was known even 2 decades ago.  It is also a science area I've been studying via books and online sources, particularly youtube and is closely related to frantic AI research that has made astounding progress during the past decade.  Basically each individual begins with a minor amount of innate instinctual behaviors plus a great deal of brain neocortex, relatively empty, waiting to be filled.  Our human brain neocortexes interconnect and change at cellular chemical levels from what we experience, do, and think.  In short, we are what we do.  So if we humans are not in experiential situations our brains evolved for, the result is arguably likely to be less than ideal.


----------



## LoneRogue (Nov 19, 2021)

Gaer said:


> There is quite a difference between being "lonely" and being "alone".   One can be alone and happy within oneself.









I life alone and do not want company. Alone? yes. Lonely? NO!


----------



## Liberty (Nov 21, 2021)

Maybe you don't miss what you never had.


----------



## Liberty (Nov 21, 2021)

Liberty said:


> Maybe you don't miss what you never had.


Wait a minute...just realized I posted a "double negative, non declarative sentence"...never mind...lol.


----------



## WheatenLover (Nov 21, 2021)

The way to not be lonely is to have friends you connect with, emotionally, spiritually and intellectually. These friends must have something in common with you, but not everything since that would be boring. The friends I have who are like that live mostly in the South. I don't, because I went where my husband wanted to work.

I have friends here, but they are not the kind of friends I referenced above. I'm not particularly lonely, but I do miss having those friends present in my life. Phone calls are not enough.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 21, 2021)

*"How does a person live alone and not get lonely?"*

Maybe we should ask Hiroo Onoda.


----------



## Gary O' (Nov 21, 2021)

How does a person live alone and not get lonely?​
Don't know
No real opinion or advice.....never been
No experience
I may have too much melatonin coursing thru my veins

It may come, if my lady passes before me
But
Missing someone may not equate to loneliness (?)

Actually, I'd like to experience a bit of loneliness....just to know.....relate


----------



## officerripley (Nov 21, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> How does a person live alone and not get lonely?​
> Don't know
> No real opinion or advice.....never been
> No experience
> ...


"Actually, I'd like to experience a bit of loneliness....just to know.....relate". No, you wouldn't; trust me.


----------



## Gary O' (Nov 21, 2021)

officerripley said:


> No, you wouldn't; trust me.


I don't know enough to argue that.
I *have* been on the flip side, however (claustrophobic) 
Too many folks like to come over and talk.......while I'm in the middle of a project, seems.
When I'm butchering wood, I have to have my mind on what I'm cutting.
And that's bad enough.
No room in what's left of the inner workings of my skull for chit chat during those times.


----------



## Bretrick (Nov 21, 2021)

So 


Liberty said:


> Maybe you don't miss what you never had.


So true. Very little one to one contact. Never loved. 
How can I miss what I have never experienced?


----------



## Shero (Nov 21, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> So
> 
> So true. Very little one to one contact. Never loved.
> How can I miss what I have never experienced?


please do not think me presumptious or anything, but how can one live without love? It is true one might not miss what one does not have, but love is the very basic of human survival. I find this so unique.
I wish for you that someday you experience love


----------



## Bretrick (Nov 21, 2021)

Shero said:


> please do not think me presumptious or anything, but how can one live without love? It is true one might not miss what one does not have, but love is the very basic of human survival. I find this so unique.
> I wish for you that someday you experience love


Up to age 39 I was a serious drunk so women never wanted to look at me nor was I interested in anything but booze.
Once I came out of my drunken stupor I was very wary of women. Did not trust them.
Had seen too often the tales of woe from my peers whom got married early and most ended up miserable, including my brother.
I knew a few women who confided with me when we were on the booze and they told me of their plans to leave their husband and started squirreling away money to make the break.
Sure, this is not typical of marriage but I had seen enough to know that I wanted nothing of it.
The best thing to happen to me because of those alcoholic years was I never done the "Done Thing" and got married and had children.
This is purely my experience and most? couples do not go through this.
I feel I have not missed out because as has been mentioned, You do not miss what you have never had.
My time is spent doing what I get the most pleasure with. Being out in the bush with nature. Having someone by my side would detract from that experience.


----------



## Shero (Nov 21, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Up to age 39 I was a serious drunk so women never wanted to look at me nor was I interested in anything but booze.
> Once I came out of my drunken stupor I was very wary of women. Did not trust them.
> Had seen too often the tales of woe from my peers whom got married early and most ended up miserable, including my brother.
> I knew a few women who confided with me when we were on the booze and they told me of their plans to leave their husband and started squirreling away money to make the break.
> ...


Thank you for explaining, now I see a lot more clearly. I do understand how much you enjoy doing the things you mention and I hope you may be able to get back to doing them as soon as your foot is well again


----------



## Aneeda72 (Nov 22, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I had only one, thankfully.  Even his own mother and his only son said he was the worst SOB who ever walked the earth.


And I thought my brother had that role.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 23, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> And I thought my brother had that role.




Trust me when I tell you that nobody, and I mean NOBODY, could be as F_______ up as that POS I was referring to.  When you say your prayers at night, say a few words of gratitude that you never crossed paths with that bassturd.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Nov 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Trust me when I tell you that nobody, and I mean NOBODY, could be as F_______ up as that POS I was referring to.  When you say your prayers at night, say a few words of gratitude that you never crossed paths with that bassturd.


Hmm, I have had the same phone number for 40 years.  My brother has, for forty years, claimed he cannot call me because he does not have my phone number.  He and his wife have cell phones.  I’ve given him my phone number a million times to write in their phone book cause every time I call they claim they do not have it.  My mother, who is 95, has given them my phone number a million times.  They think this is funny.

This is just a small irritation.

When we were younger and our 3 day old son died we borrowed 500 dollars from my brother and his wife (who was/is wealthy) for the burial.  (Husband was still in the marine corps at this time.). We paid the 500 back that same year.  My brother asked for the interest on the five hundred.

Our brothers might be tied as super jerks, but I don’t know your brother so I cannot say.  @oldiebutgoody


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 23, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Our brothers might be tied as *super jerks*, but I don’t know your brother so I cannot say.




^ apropos!


----------



## palides2021 (Nov 23, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Hmm, I have had the same phone number for 40 years.  My brother has, for forty years, claimed he cannot call me because he does not have my phone number.  He and his wife have cell phones.  I’ve given him my phone number a million times to write in their phone book cause every time I call they claim they do not have it.  My mother, who is 95, has given them my phone number a million times.  They think this is funny.
> 
> This is just a small irritation.
> 
> ...


Sorry you lost your 3 day old son! That must have been heartbreaking! May his memory be eternal.


----------



## katlupe (Nov 24, 2021)

I have been thinking about this question trying to figure out why I do not get lonely. I can't figure it out really. But when I go places with anyone (even my bf) I just cannot wait till it is time to go home. Or if someone is here I am never one to try to get them to stay longer. As soon as I am home alone, I breathe a sigh of relief. 

I think I remember my grandmother being that way. She would take her house keys out of her purse twenty miles from home! I do that sometimes. Maybe not twenty miles but at least five.


----------



## Shero (Nov 24, 2021)

katlupe said:


> I have been thinking about this question trying to figure out why I do not get lonely. I can't figure it out really. But when I go places with anyone (even my bf) I just cannot wait till it is time to go home. Or if someone is here I am never one to try to get them to stay longer. As soon as I am home alone, I breathe a sigh of relief.
> 
> I think I remember my grandmother being that way. She would take her house keys out of her purse twenty miles from home! I do that sometimes. Maybe not twenty miles but at least five.



I love to roam and have adventure, but most of all I love to get back home. I understand how you feel!


----------



## Bretrick (Nov 24, 2021)

katlupe said:


> I have been thinking about this question trying to figure out why I do not get lonely. I can't figure it out really. But when I go places with anyone (even my bf) I just cannot wait till it is time to go home. Or if someone is here I am never one to try to get them to stay longer. As soon as I am home alone, I breathe a sigh of relief.
> 
> I think I remember my grandmother being that way. She would take her house keys out of her purse twenty miles from home! I do that sometimes. Maybe not twenty miles but at least five.


I can relate to this.
Many times I can not wait to leave wherever I am with other people so I can be with myself again. Truly only at peace when I am alone.


----------



## Jackie23 (Nov 24, 2021)

katlupe said:


> I have been thinking about this question trying to figure out why I do not get lonely. I can't figure it out really. But when I go places with anyone (even my bf) I just cannot wait till it is time to go home. Or if someone is here I am never one to try to get them to stay longer. As soon as I am home alone, I breathe a sigh of relief.
> 
> I think I remember my grandmother being that way. She would take her house keys out of her purse twenty miles from home! I do that sometimes. Maybe not twenty miles but at least five.


Yes....I feel exactly the same....I can remember my mother was the same also. ...to me its a sense of comfort.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 24, 2021)

Shero said:


> I love to roam and have adventure, but most of all I love to get back home. I understand how you feel!


We have a VERY COMMON expression in Sweden,* "Bort är bra men hemma är bäst"* which literally translated means _"Away is good but home is best"_.  I've thought about this a lot and I have my own theory about it. The great thing about travel is that if you remain abroad long enough you begin to miss home, and that ought to be the whole reason for going in the first place. _"I need a change!"  "This daily routine is boring!" "I must get away!"_ So, you eventually get homesick and look forward to returning. Mission accomplished!


----------



## Lewkat (Nov 24, 2021)

I am just fine living alone.  I can choose to be among friends when the mood moves me, etc.  With my books, music and dog, I am never lonely.


----------



## Flaneuse (Nov 24, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> I think loneliness is the saddest, most destructive emotion and believe our culture is largely responsible. Look around at different cultures, they have large extended families and are rarely ever alone. We don’t. They don’t pack their oldies off into nursing homes. We do. I envy those who have never felt lonely, you’re very lucky IMO.


Our culture is so achievement oriented and often so me-me-me oriented that we all end up going our different directions.  In the family in which I grew up we were pitted against each other so today, decades later, it takes a real effort to get past that original family dynamic and be close.  This morning I was thinking of a friend I went to college with - she has two children and each of them has 3 children.  They have the closest family I have ever known, spending most of the year together.  I'm envious, and I'm usually envious of no one.  I'm generally not lonely (my overly talkative sister lives with me and I'm an introvert who learned long ago to be happy with my own company) but when holidays come around and my friend posts pictures on FB of their large family gatherings, it hits hard that this is what I wanted and don't have.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 24, 2021)

Flaneuse said:


> Our culture is so *achievement oriented* and often so *me-me-me oriented* .....  In the family ..... were* pitted against each other* so today, decades later, it takes a real effort to get past that original family dynamic and be close. ....


There's good Capitalism and bad Capitalism. I assume that you live in the US?


----------



## officerripley (Nov 24, 2021)

Flaneuse said:


> Our culture is so achievement oriented and often so me-me-me oriented that we all end up going our different directions.  In the family in which I grew up we were pitted against each other so today, decades later, it takes a real effort to get past that original family dynamic and be close.  This morning I was thinking of a friend I went to college with - she has two children and each of them has 3 children.  They have the closest family I have ever known, spending most of the year together.  I'm envious, and I'm usually envious of no one.  I'm generally not lonely (my overly talkative sister lives with me and I'm an introvert who learned long ago to be happy with my own company) but when holidays come around and my friend posts pictures on FB of their large family gatherings, it hits hard that this is what I wanted and don't have.


So true, especially the "we all end up going our different directions"; reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

_"It’s always like this. The world just goes on, and everybody’s so busy, doing things together, and I’m always the one that’s alone on the outside, wondering about it. I can’t ever get in, and I can’t do anything to get included."_
~~from _Blood Money_ by Thomas Perry


----------



## Flaneuse (Nov 24, 2021)

Verisure said:


> There's good Capitalism and bad Capitalism. I assume that you live in the US?


Yes.  And getting quite tired of it.  The country has changed so much from when I was a kid.  I'd go back in time if I could, even if it meant giving up computers and smartphones.  Anxious to move to Europe but I have a senior dog (one of 3) who for health reasons cannot travel so I am here for the remainder of her life.  And that's okay - she's really more important to me than anything else.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 24, 2021)

Flaneuse said:


> Yes.  And getting quite tired of it.  The country has changed so much from when I was a kid.  I'd go back in time if I could, even if it meant giving up computers and smartphones.  Anxious to move to Europe but I have a senior dog (one of 3) who for health reasons cannot travel so I am here for the remainder of her life.  And that's okay - she's really more important to me than anything else.


Then you have someone who needs you and something to live for and that's always a good thing.


----------



## Skyking (Nov 27, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> She should have taken lessons from Gary Zukav:


Yeah but when he wasn't spouting a meme, I'll bet he'd confide to you that there were many times when he was just plain lonely.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 27, 2021)

Skyking said:


> Yeah but when he wasn't spouting a meme, I'll bet he'd confide to you that there were many times when he was just plain lonely.


Penny reminds us that there is no _Mrs God_ and that's the reason he created life. He was lonely.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 28, 2021)

Skyking said:


> Yeah but when he wasn't spouting a meme, I'll bet he'd confide to you that there were many times when he was just plain lonely.




I do believe he suffered numerous crises in his life. Eventually he learned to adjust by realizing he never was alone in the first place. Gives us all hope.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 28, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I do believe he suffered numerous crises in his life. Eventually he learned to adjust by realizing he never was alone in the first place. Gives us all hope.


I'm just guessing but it seems to me that we can all find ourselves feeling utterly alone for various reasons. What about the members of religious cults? After breaking all ties with "the outside world" and years of building relationships within the cult, they then end up "shunned" ....... How do you bounce back from that?


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 28, 2021)

Verisure said:


> I'm just guessing but it seems to me that we can all find ourselves feeling utterly alone for various reasons. What about the members of religious cults? After breaking all ties with "the outside world" and years of building relationships within the cult, they then end up "shunned" ....... How do you bounce back from that?


 A cousin of mine was cloistered for a while studying for the priesthood. Things didn't work out so well and he decided to join the Marines. Turned out well after all. There is hope.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 28, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> A cousin of mine was cloistered for a while studying for the priesthood. Things didn't work out so well and he decided to join the Marines. Turned out well after all. There is hope.


Jumping from the pot into the fire perhaps. I served 3 years active in the military and I spent one year at war. When I came back I was lost. No one understood what I went through and consequently, no one understood me. It was rough, maybe similar to  ex-cult victims. Yes, I think I know what loneliness feels like.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Nov 28, 2021)

Verisure said:


> Jumping from the pot into the fire perhaps. I served 3 years active in the military and I spent one year at war. When I came back I was lost. No one understood what I went through and consequently, no one understood me. It was rough, maybe similar to  ex-cult victims. Yes, I think I know what loneliness feels like.




Did you join VFW or American Legion?  Both groups treat vets real good here in the Twin Cities. They sponsor many youth sports teams and I have attended their activities. In fact in this state we have more Legion teams than a great many states combined. As a vet you should have a great many pals  just like my relations who were  vets.


----------



## Verisure (Nov 28, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Did you join VFW or American Legion?  Both groups treat vets real good here in the Twin Cities. They sponsor many youth sports teams and I have attended their activities. In fact in this state we have more Legion teams than a great many states combined. As a vet you should have a great many pals  just like my relations who were  vets.


No, I don't want to identify as a veteran, to have it part of my profile, or swap war stories. It was 3 years of my life and it's behind me. It was more than 50 years ago now and I don't live in the US anyway. By the way, I lived in Duluth once upon a time ... where the view is always Superior!


----------



## katlupe (Dec 6, 2021)

There have been times when I have felt alone when living with someone. I figured out pretty quick that I was a nice person to be with and didn't need the other people. 

Now after saying how much I like living alone (which I do, very much), the past month I have grown much closer to a few people in my building. So much so that one day I had THREE visitors in one day.........and each one stayed here talking to me for about an HOUR! That is a lot for me. 

I have become the person they come to for help or advice. I kind of like it.


----------



## Tabby Ann (Dec 6, 2021)

Learning to be content alone is one of the greatest achievements. It allows you to be more discriminating about the others you allow into your life. Many disastrous situations are spawned by the fear of being alone and therefore associating with disastrous people. The key to all things is balance. A balance between aloneness and socialization. It is the aloneness that gives you the time and space to contemplate wise choices about socialization.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 24, 2021)

absolutely NOTHING wrong with being a loner:







I'm always alone and, I guess, was born to be that way.


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 24, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> absolutely NOTHING wrong with being a loner:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a partner, but we are both loners so even when we he is off we do our own thing.  We like to think of ourselves as "independent".  We get together for dinner and a couple of hours of TV each night.  We enjoy the occasional lunch out, movie or a walk by the lake.

I scored 9 out of 11.  Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Bretrick (Dec 24, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> absolutely NOTHING wrong with being a loner:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love this. Explains me intimately
10 out of 11 (I don't use headphones)


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 24, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> I scored 9 out of 11. Thanks for sharing!





Bretrick said:


> 10 out of 11 (I don't use headphones)




Am a born loner.  Technically got 9 of 11 but only because

item 3 ~ don't have a smart (have a land line but rarely use it)

item 7 ~ don't use headphones anymore & did not buy a new one though I would gladly use it to scare off people


Otherwise, I'm the perfect 11 of 11. 

As social scientists have said over the years, there is no real such thing as loneliness. That such a state of being is actually a sign of a low self esteem. People who like themselves don't ever feel lonely.  Being alone is a sign of personal strength and self empowerment.  Hopefully, some day the "lonely" people out there will learn it.


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 24, 2021)

OBG, I will point out one item that didn't apply to me.  I watched #1, which is that Loners are private people.  When I am passionate about a topic, I tend to share my feelings and my background to support it.  I sense that you do the same.  Maybe that one doesn't completely apply?


----------



## Bretrick (Dec 24, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> OBG, I will point out one item that didn't apply to me.  I watched #1, which is that Loners are private people.  When I am passionate about a topic, I tend to share my feelings and my background to support it.  I sense that you do the same.  Maybe that one doesn't completely apply?


On line persona and real life is totally different.
In real life I am a closed book.


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 24, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> On line persona and real life is totally different.
> In real life I am a closed book.


Ahhh, good point!


----------



## officerripley (Dec 24, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> As social scientists have said over the years, there is no real such thing as loneliness. That such a state of being is actually a sign of a low self esteem. People who like themselves don't ever feel lonely.  Being alone is a sign of personal strength and self empowerment.  Hopefully, some day the "lonely" people out there will learn it.


Some social scientists may have said that but some don't: https://www.heretohelp.bc.ca/vision.../we-are-not-alone-we-are-part-of-the-majority

What I have heard is that loneliness is part of being human. While hundreds of thousand of years of evolution wired humans to feel connectness to other humans (which is of course one of the main attributes of being human) by being in the physical presence of other humans, there are indeed some humans who don't seem to need the physical presence of other humans. Now does that make those humans who don't need others less than human? Who's to say? It does however seem to make them incapable of sympathy toward those who need that evolution-caused physical contact with others and find it easy to stigmatize those who are simply operating as evolution saw fit.


----------



## IFortuna (Dec 24, 2021)

Seems very stingy to hold all your love in your heart without giving it to anyone.  That is assuming there is love there.
I seek out friends and partners because I have a lot of love to give.  Find love in your heart to give. If there is none there and you are happy alone, I find this very sad. 
I think it is very rude to suggest that lonely people are immature.  Where is the compassion and empathy?
That is just my opinion though.  If I cannot share my life, what is the point. Just an endless self serving, self absorbed existence.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 25, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> OBG, I will point out one item that didn't apply to me.  I watched #1, which is that Loners are private people.  When I am passionate about a topic, I tend to share my feelings and my background to support it.  I sense that you do the same.  Maybe that one doesn't completely apply?



I join with Betrick in that when I'm home am very private - always keep my door and curtains shut. But online I'm demonstrative and am especially so when at a ballgame. Here's a story for you:

One day I'm at a softball game being coached by a lady I knew. Final play of the game took place as one of her players scored. All of a sudden the opposing coach shouted that the player did not slide so that the run should not have counted. Four other men almost started to run on the field and shouted the same thing.  Imagine five "heroes" acting ever so manly by  shouting at one defenseless woman.  Suddenly the devil came out in me and I EXPLODED - I pointed out that the catcher stood in front of home plate without possession of the ball.  In softball this is called "obstruction" and the runner is automatically safe by rule. When the "heroes" heard that they fell back like a bunch of dogs running away with their tails between their legs. The coach (she and I had been pals for a while)  repeated the exact same words I used to the umpire who had no choice but to rule that our runner was safe  with the winning run and the game was over.  

It's the way I am.  I can bend but I don't break.  Anyone who pushes me to the wall will soon have to run for cover. Don't like to raise my voice but will do so when necessary.  Many years have gone by and I still remember that little incident at the softball game.  By the way, the next year the girls on the team sent me a thank you note for attending their games.  It is up on my wall now and I am just thrilled to still have it after all this time.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 25, 2021)

IFortuna said:


> I think it is very rude to suggest that lonely people are immature.





Please bear in mind that social scientists are the ones who have reached this conclusion. They are certainly far more qualified to make such a determination than I am.  By the way, there is also a consensus that young people (not older) are lonelier than our age group.  I started to discuss that but my posts were deleted without explanation.


----------



## Bretrick (Dec 25, 2021)

IFortuna said:


> Seems very stingy to hold all your love in your heart without giving it to anyone.  That is assuming there is love there.
> I seek out friends and partners because I have a lot of love to give.  Find love in your heart to give. If there is none there and you are happy alone, I find this very sad.
> I think it is very rude to suggest that lonely people are immature.  Where is the compassion and empathy?
> That is just my opinion though.  If I cannot share my life, what is the point. Just an endless self serving, self absorbed existence.


Why would being happy alone be sad?
If the person who is happiest when alone is not sad then where is the problem?


----------



## IFortuna (Dec 25, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Why would being happy alone be sad?
> If the person who is happiest when alone is not sad then where is the problem?


Not to compare people to animals but sociability is a common and healthy feature in the animal and human world.  We socialize our dogs so they get along with people and other animals.  I am no psychologist, no doctor with degree but that is what we are here for in my opinion.   I don't expect everyone to agree with me, that is just my take.


----------



## IFortuna (Dec 25, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Please bear in mind that social scientists are the ones who have reached this conclusion. They are certainly far more qualified to make such a determination than I am.  By the way, there is also a consensus that young people (not older) are lonelier than our age group.  I started to discuss that but my posts were deleted without explanation.


Hmmm, I can't understand why your posts would disappear.  I would like to see the cites that would accompany your opinions.  However, I don't expect anyone to agree with my opinion.  I am speaking from my own experience.  I just happen to believe that a person's life is much richer with one or many persons in it.  I hate to make love with a *****, well you fill in the blanks. And, some people have no love or affection to share and I think that is sad and selfish not mature.  That is just me.  I see you have a different opinion and that is fine. Again, I don't expect you or anyone change on this subject. You are who you are and I am sure that it is lovely. Truce?


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 25, 2021)

*I think I am more drawn to a perspective that emotional  maturity is not predicated on whether or not one really needs human interaction. Some of us do, and some of us don’t. No one size fits all approach seems to work 

well with sentient beings. Lol. I think maturity is better found in being true to our inner self, and attempting to treat others as we would hope to be treated. The amount of interaction matters far less imho, than the type. In my practice, I see this play out time and time again. *


----------



## Irwin (Dec 25, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Am a born loner.  Technically got 9 of 11 but only because
> 
> item 3 ~ don't have a smart (have a land line but rarely use it)
> 
> ...


What social scientists have said that loneliness is a sign of low self-esteem? I've never heard that before. Of course, there are a lot of things that I never heard before that turn out to be true.

I think it was professor and researcher John Cacioppo who said, and I quote to the best of my memory because I don't feel like Googling it, "Loneliness is not about being alone; it's about not feeling connected." If that's the case, there are plenty of people who are lonely simply because of an environment incongruent to what they need to thrive and connect. They're unable to find likeminded people, so they're lonely. That has nothing to do with low self-esteem but more to do with discontentment.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 25, 2021)

IFortuna said:


> Hmmm, I can't understand why your posts would disappear.  I would like to see the cites that would accompany your opinions.  However, I don't expect anyone to agree with my opinion.  I am speaking from my own experience.  I just happen to believe that a person's life is much richer with one or many persons in it.  I hate to make love with a *****, well you fill in the blanks. And, some people have no love or affection to share and I think that is sad and selfish not mature.  That is just me.  I see you have a different opinion and that is fine. Again, I don't expect you or anyone change on this subject. You are who you are and I am sure that it is lovely.






IFortuna said:


>





~ life is much richer with one or many persons in it ~

Santa failed to send me a wealthy wife this Christmas.  Shame on him!


~ opinion ~

I respect all viewpoints.


~ Truce? ~

No problem.  Never was one in the first place.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 25, 2021)

Irwin said:


> What social scientists have said that loneliness is a sign of low self-esteem?





I have posted numerous links previously. Because some may have been deleted and because I do not wish to anger the mods I will reply via PM.


----------



## Ruthanne (Dec 25, 2021)

IFortuna said:


> Seems very stingy to hold all your love in your heart without giving it to anyone.  That is assuming there is love there.
> I seek out friends and partners because I have a lot of love to give.  Find love in your heart to give. If there is none there and you are happy alone, I find this very sad.
> I think it is very rude to suggest that lonely people are immature.  Where is the compassion and empathy?
> That is just my opinion though.  ,If I cannot share my life, what is the point. Just an endless self serving, self absorbed existence.



Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.  I find your message disturbing for those of us who choose to be alone.  You say it's rude to suggest lonely or people alone(?) are immature yet you say if you (or a person?) does not share their life it's self serving and self absorbed.    

People who interact all the time with others do so for *their* benefit mostly (IMO) so isn't that self serving?  Everyone is selfish in doing what is best for themselves and that DOESN'T make it a bad thing.  We all do what we feel is best for our own survival and peace of mind.  We all have our own reasons, too.  

Maybe you have never led a life of being alone for a long time and cannot relate to us who have been.  Making assumptions about us doesn't do us any good.  There is plenty of good and also unselfishness in people who choose to be alone and we only interact when we feel to.  And it's not sad IMO.


----------



## IFortuna (Dec 25, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I have posted numerous links previously. Because some may have been deleted and because I do not wish to anger the mods I will reply via PM.


I read on another site that when you flood a thread with posts, some will be deleted.  It is not personal the computer automatically does it.  This happened to someone on YouTube also that flooded the genre with a contest that they were giving away a dvd.  I am sure all sites have this feature.  It is not you precisely, it seems to be the nature of most sites. 


Ruthanne said:


> Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.  I find your message disturbing for those of us who choose to be alone.  You say it's rude to suggest lonely or people alone(?) are immature yet you say if you (or a person?) does not share their life it's self serving and self absorbed.
> 
> People who interact all the time with others do so for *their* benefit mostly (IMO) so isn't that self serving?  Everyone is selfish in doing what is best for themselves and that DOESN'T make it a bad thing.  We all do what we feel is best for our own survival and peace of mind.  We all have our own reasons, too.
> 
> Maybe you have never led a life of being alone for a long time and cannot relate to us who have been.  Making assumptions about us doesn't do us any good.  There is plenty of good and also unselfishness in people who choose to be alone and we only interact when we feel to.  And it's not sad IMO.


I believe I said that what I wrote is my opinion.  What you wrote or like is yours.  I did not disrespect anyone that did not disrespect me  first (I was making a point at how it felt to be labeled as immature if I choose not to be alone). I have led a life of being alone, I was fine but I like it better when I can share my life with someone else and friends.  It doesn't make it a bad thing either.  If you do not like that I have an opposite view then I feel even more sorry for you. Everyone has their opinion and I think that is fine even if I disagree. Lots of love to you.


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 25, 2021)

Nathan said:


> After my last divorce I decided to *not *get involved with anyone for a while, needed to figure out why I kept ending up in disastrous relationships.
> ...read a "self help" book, the one concept that really jumped out from the pages was-  "you gotta enjoy your own company".   Quite true, why should someone be dependent on "having" someone in their life, in order to be happy?
> 
> I did re-marry, but I did it right, did the courtship thing for 3 years so that we would get a chance to really *know* each other.


There was a female radio personality, Dr. Laura, who as I recall said you shouldn't marry anyone you haven't known for at least two years.  Good advice.


----------



## Nathan (Dec 25, 2021)

ElCastor said:


> There was a female radio personality, Dr. Laura, who as I recall said you shouldn't marry anyone you haven't known for at least two years.  Good advice.


Yes, Dr. Laura Schlesinger, I used to listen to her on the radio.


----------



## Jackie23 (Dec 25, 2021)

After my husband passed away I was lonely, I dated a few times but decided no I'm not going there... so....I got a dog, no longer lonely and I learned to like being alone.

Also, I figure I've raised a family, took care of my mom, worked hard for many years it's time that I live for myself and do whatever the h*ll I want to.


----------



## Devi (Dec 25, 2021)

ElCastor said:


> There was a female radio personality, Dr. Laura, who as I recall said you shouldn't marry anyone you haven't known for at least two years.  Good advice.


Well, okay. I knew my husband for a few months before I married him. Here we are at almost 40 years married and still going strong.


----------



## David777 (Dec 25, 2021)

Obviously for a start given a reasonable pleasant gregarious nature,  would help by not living out in some remote rural location, but rather preferably in an urban community where one at least has a better chance to join others in a broad range of activities.


----------



## Tabby Ann (Dec 25, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> I have a question for those of you who have said they are comfortable living alone -
> What brings you here to the Senior Forum? Isn't it a way of socializing? Just curious. I feel
> like kindred spirits are here, so I keep coming back.


Being comfortable living alone doesn’t mean being anti-social or incommunicado any more than aloneness means loneliness. They are two different things. People comfortable living alone come to the forums to socialize and communicate out of choice, not out of a compulsion or fear of being alone.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 25, 2021)

IFortuna said:


> I read on another site that when you flood a thread with posts, some will be deleted. It is not personal the computer automatically does it.




Actually, I got a note from a mod that said ''let's not go there''. No further comment was made. So, as one who respects the rules, I will restrict such ideas to  PMs.


----------



## boliverchadsworth (Dec 26, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> I have a question for those of you who have said they are comfortable living alone -
> What brings you here to the Senior Forum? Isn't it a way of socializing? Just curious. I feel
> like kindred spirits are here, so I keep coming back.


oddly enough it makes me think and feel how fortunate I personally am..


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 26, 2021)




----------



## JBingo36 (Jan 2, 2022)

_unfortunately lonlleyness is real  in some cases it’s been their all our life. But we cover it up. By raising children chores or working taking care of a sick person. And we don’t have the time or the time to shed some light on our self. That’s mistake number one. Durning all those years we know we are lonely regardless of responsibilities. And never prepare for our future. That is enevitable. We got lost in the shuffle we did everything for others. not to say  that is wrong. But had you taken one moment  to stop and think about your self and not think of your self as being selfish. You could have had an incredible amount of hobbies through out the years as well as everything else and now that your an empty nester. You wouldn’t be lonely. So that’s the clue. Prepare everything in your young years so you have things to love and fall back on. But it’s never too late there are all kinds of courses and you don’t even have to leave your house.  Places to go alone. An ice 
cream parlor. A lounge a park a church grocery store where you can make friends so you don’t have to be lonely any mor. Good luck_


----------



## JBingo36 (Jan 2, 2022)

Bretrick said:


> I have lived alone for more than 30 years and in all that time I have never been lonely.
> Some people do not need others around them to enjoy life.
> While others have this compulsion to talk for talking's sake. To engage non stop in chit chat.
> My method to stave off loneliness is to have a huge variety of interests. Be it Jigsaw Puzzles, crosswords, reading both fiction(horror) and non fiction books.
> ...


 Congrats. Betrix. You are the only one sensible one that. Answered the question correctly. Every one has a different conception of lonely and different reason why they are lonely the only thing I disagree with what you said. Telling them. How to go about curbing those feelings is important. Everyone’ is lonely for a different reason  so therepy might help happy new year


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 21, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> *I think I am more drawn to a perspective that emotional  maturity is not predicated on whether or not one really needs human interaction. Some of us do, and some of us don’t. No one size fits all approach seems to work
> 
> well with sentient beings. Lol. I think maturity is better found in being true to our inner self, and attempting to treat others as we would hope to be treated. The amount of interaction matters far less imho, than the type. In my practice, I see this play out time and time again. *




~ no one size fits all ~

That is so true. Not everyone thinks alike or has the same needs.


My old friend called me from NY yesterday. Told me he absolutely hates to be alone, even for more than a couple of hours. Rather than spend time in his apartment, he prefers to be in his old apartment where his physically & developmentally disabled daughter lives. She is barely capable of recognizing him but even if she raises an eyebrow in his direction that much attention is good enough.  The rest of the time her full time medical attendant's attention is all he needs as the attendant cooks and keeps everything clean.  

Then he said, "I've known you for over 45 years.  In all that time you've always been alone - no wife, no girl friend, almost no friends at all.  How do you do it?  Doesn't it bother you to always be alone?"  My reply was that you don't miss what you never had.   I spend the day cooking and baking, reading books, listening to oldies music or napping and writing online.  Those are the cards life handed me so, I guess, that's good enough for me since I had no choice in this matter.  If some wealthy heiress wants to walk into my life, that's her business.  Meantime I've got my life to live. And one thing more: when you say  '*treat others as we would hope to be treated'*    he also said  that in all these years I have never been one to trouble another for anything.  I never, never bother anyone and always stay out of people's way though I've always been willing to help others where need be such as filing tax returns for others.  

My friend is emotionally dependent on others, I am not.  Life gave him a loving family, but it did not do the same for me.  This is why we are how we are today.  That's just how life goes.


----------



## Lavinia (Jan 21, 2022)

Some of us are perfectly content with our own company, and don't feel the need to be surrounded by other people. After being part of a family for the past 70 years, I'm alone now and loving it.
Social sites like this one give me contact with others and I find that is enough. I say hello to my neighbours but I make a point of not getting too involved with them.


----------



## Laine (Jan 22, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I also marvel at the incessant threads about "loneliness" and just cannot understand people's endless obsession with it.  People need to grow up and to grow out of their self made problem.  Like you, I keep busy by reading, cooking, watching sports, cleaning my apartment, watching youtube videos, etc.
> All those tears these people have - yuck.  If only they could see how silly it is to keep crying in public about nothing.


Humans are social creatures.  I think it is the exception rather than the rule that some of us don't need other people. 
Loneliness is a serious issue, like depression and studies show it can shorten the life span. 
Just know that like depression, saying "just get out there" or "snap out of it!"
is not only unhelpful, but shows a serious lack of compassion and understanding. 
Congratulations to the two of you who are so happy being alone. 
Much love and sympathy to those  of you who are not.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 22, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> Some of us are perfectly content with our own company, and don't feel the need to be surrounded by other people. After being part of a family for the past 70 years, I'm alone now and loving it.
> Social sites like this one give me contact with others and I find that is enough. I say hello to my neighbours but I make a point of not getting too involved with them.




In the phone conversation with my friend, I mentioned how social sites like this one are great for those who are lonely and feel the need to communicate with others.  I post here and on youtube every day.  Later today, I expect to attend a youth hockey game [for FREE!] and expect the same for tomorrow.  It is so much better to stay active than just wallow at home in self pity.  Lace on the boots, button up your jacket, and take a walk - there's a whole wide world out there with plenty to do and tons of fun to have.  More often than not, just like the hockey game, all that fun is for free which makes it even more fun.


----------



## charry (Jan 22, 2022)

I have been basically lonely since hubbys stroke 10yrs ago, as he naps a lot during the day, and goes to bed at 6pm , as he gets so uncomfortable sitting down all day……
but thank god his brain wasn’t affected…..so he is still there to advise me and tell me everything is going to be ok ……..my soul mate …..


----------



## Packerjohn (Jan 22, 2022)

We live in a very sad society where people are "falling in love" with their TV screens and going to bed hugging a smartphone.  Mammals, including homo sapiens (that's us) are warm blooded social animals.  Yes, you can lock yourself in your home or apartment but without other people sharing ideas, feelings, problems and laughs you will be a rather sad person.  I'm not surprised that suicides and depression is way up in Western Society.  Here in Canada we have so many people living by themselves that the population is decreasing so our government is bringing plane loads of immigrants to keep the economy going.  Very sad!  I wouldn't even mention  all the people that sleep with their dogs and cats!


----------



## Lavinia (Jan 22, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> We live in a very sad society where people are "falling in love" with their TV screens and going to bed hugging a smartphone.  Mammals, including homo sapiens (that's us) are warm blooded social animals.  Yes, you can lock yourself in your home or apartment but without other people sharing ideas, feelings, problems and laughs you will be a rather sad person.  I'm not surprised that suicides and depression is way up in Western Society.  Here in Canada we have so many people living by themselves that the population is decreasing so our government is bringing plane loads of immigrants to keep the economy going.  Very sad!  I wouldn't even mention  all the people that sleep with their dogs and cats!


It is certainly true that the increase in depression and mental health  problems seems to be caused by a feeling of isolation. Which is strange when you consider that the internet and mobile phones allows people to have MORE contact, not less.
There is nothing sad about people who prefer their own company....indeed I see the need for human contact as a weakness. I have been married and raised a family...I haven't lived as a nun. Now I'm enjoying my twilight years doing as I please and being thoroughly selfish!!


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 22, 2022)

Laine said:


> Just know that like depression, saying "just get out there" or "snap out of it!"
> is not only unhelpful, but shows a serious lack of compassion and understanding.




Not sure this is entirely so especially in view of links previously provided which prove loneliness is, more often than not, a sign of low self estimation. Ultimately, as rational adults, we are all responsible for ourselves.

While your point is well taken there are outlets available for everyone. I post on a  youtube channel by a guy from the East Coast who admits to suffering from stress and seasonal depression (he is over 40 years of age).  He says that the best way to deal with his condition is to go out and communicate with people as he does on his channel every day.  Communication, not self isolation, is the best way to handle the situation. There is help. Everywhere and it, too, is for free.


----------



## Macfan (Jan 22, 2022)

I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone.

Robin Williams


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 22, 2022)

Macfan said:


> I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone.
> 
> Robin Williams




Actually, there is one scenario that's even worse - when you wind up with people who make you wish you were alone.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 22, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Actually, there is one scenario that's even worse - when you wind up with people who make you wish you were alone.


QFT


----------



## charry (Jan 22, 2022)

I have a phobia of people ……as I was told a few years back and I. Laughed 
but it’s true …..I don’t like people , only polite ones ……not jealous nasty ones …..


----------



## Pepper (Jan 22, 2022)

Robin was wrong.  If he wound up with people who made him feel alone he had the material means to ............ leave.  And that goes for most people.  Alone is alone.  There's no comparison to being alone with people.  Outrageous complaint, meaningless, not the same, not at all.


----------



## Macfan (Jan 22, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Robin was wrong.  If he wound up with people who made him feel alone he had the material means to ............ leave.  And that goes for most people.  Alone is alone.  There's no comparison to being alone with people.  Outrageous complaint, meaningless, not the same, not at all.


Different strokes, Pepper, different strokes. You think he got it wrong, I think he got it right. I don't believe there's a right or wrong here, just a difference of perspective and life experiences... Don...


----------



## Irwin (Jan 22, 2022)

I like it that other people have the same attitude as me about being alone. It makes me feel like I'm not alone.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 22, 2022)

Irwin said:


> I like it that other people have the same attitude as me about being alone. It makes me feel like I'm not alone.




That's just it: you're NOT alone!
Today I made myself a terrific sandwich for brunch.
Then I went to a youth hockey game - and a terrific one it was.  We lost at the very last minute as our foes put on a phenomenal effort to score. As I left the arena, a parent from the opposing team gave kudos to my team for putting on such an honorable effort.
Then when I got home, a neighbor was kind enough to leave a can of spaghetti sauce in our community pantry which is what we do every week in our building.  I'm leaning towards leaving a bottle of maple syrup probably tomorrow.
As I got my mail a neighbor asked how I was feeling since my back was so bad last month.  He genuinely was concerned over my back's pathetic condition which, thankfully, is now much better.
Then I reach my floor in the apartment building, was greeted very kindly by my neighbor.
Then I went into my apartment and had myself a nice bowl of ice cream.
Now I'm here at home, warm, my tummy feels good after that tasty ice cream.  I started to defrost a steak for tomorrow and will leave it in the fridge overnight and will season it up real good.
Tomorrow afternoon, another youth team that I root for is scheduled to play.  They are a Class AA team which means they are one of the highest ranked youth teams in the state.  That should be fun as well. Hopefully, they will win and the steak will be utterly magnificent. 

See?  Who said anything about being lonely??  Sorry folks, but there just ain't no such thing.


----------



## Sunny (Jan 22, 2022)

I agree, Oldie. There are always groups to join, friends to spend time with (harder than it used to be, but we can still do it with a mask on), volunteer work, sports, etc.  And at the end of those activities, it feels kind of good to come back to the silence and privacy of my own home. We are only as "alone" as we want to be.


----------



## officerripley (Jan 22, 2022)

Never send to know for whom the loneliness bell tolls; it tolls for thee. If not now, probably later on whilst thou art living in skilled nursing and art never visited. (Apologies to Donne.)


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 22, 2022)

Laine said:


> Humans are social creatures.  I think it is the exception rather than the rule that some of us don't need other people.
> Loneliness is a serious issue, like depression and studies show it can shorten the life span.
> Just know that like depression, saying "just get out there" or "snap out of it!"
> is not only unhelpful, but shows a serious lack of compassion and understanding.
> ...


QUOTED FOR TRUTH


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 22, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> ~ no one size fits all ~
> 
> That is so true. Not everyone thinks alike or has the same needs.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you are emotionally dependent on solitude. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 22, 2022)

In my opinion, not all loneliness can be alleviated by keeping busy. Even if one interacts with others on that basis, it may not be enough. Some of us need deeper connections, I certainly do. I would rather entertain myself than drown in surface stuff.

Most empathetic people are rather allergic to small talk. I am also not drawn to comparisons re which of us are dysfunctional or dependent. There are a wide range of perfectly normal needs on the relationship scale.  No one is healthier than

anyone else based on that placement, I wish everyone the best as they travel their life journey. It is ok not to need people, it is ok to need them. Loneliness is normal, as is a lack of it.
One thing is certain, loneliness is real. Just as depression,

anxiety, grief, and a whole lot of other emotions which western society attempts to have us suppress. That suppression is toxic,


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 22, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> Perhaps you are emotionally dependent on solitude. Nothing wrong with that.



Hey, that's a thought!  I sure do like my own company.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 22, 2022)

WheatenLover said:


> Self-pity keeps people from moving forward, from making changes that can be scary. I no longer engage in it, to the very best of my ability. I can't think of anything right now that I pity myself about. The best lesson I learned, so far, is to live in the present. The past can't be changed, and no matter what, the future is unknown. I've learned that in the past, but this time it seems to have stuck. If I falter, I think of something else, in the present.




As I and others have said here, loneliness is self imposed and is imaginary at worse.  There are dozens of things that anyone can do about it and hundreds of people in professional or volunteer agencies who would happily help if given the opportunity.  By contrast, there is virtually nothing you can do about the onset of cancer, paralysis, heart ailments, arthritis (I'm living proof of that as I am a former athlete who used to do yoga every day and never expected to get this painful ailment), and other debilitating medical conditions.  None of these crises are volitional.  "Loneliness" is.


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 22, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> As I and others have said here, loneliness is self imposed and is imaginary at worse.  There are dozens of things that anyone can do about it and hundreds of people in professional or volunteer agencies who would happily help if given the opportunity.  By contrast, there is virtually nothing you can do about the onset of cancer, paralysis, heart ailments, arthritis (I'm living proof of that as I am a former athlete who used to do yoga every day and never expected to get this painful ailment), and other debilitating medical conditions.  None of these crises are volitional.  "Loneliness" is.


Speaking as a psychologist, I adamantly disagree with you. There is nothing imaginary about loneliness. I find your perspective lacks an understanding of  those who are simply wired differently than you, or whose life experiences affected them differently.


----------



## officerripley (Jan 22, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> As I and others have said here, loneliness is self imposed and is imaginary at worse.  There are dozens of things that anyone can do about it and hundreds of people in professional or volunteer agencies who would happily help if given the opportunity.  By contrast, there is virtually nothing you can do about the onset of cancer, paralysis, heart ailments, arthritis (I'm living proof of that as I am a former athlete who used to do yoga every day and never expected to get this painful ailment), and other debilitating medical conditions.  None of these crises are volitional.  "Loneliness" is.


On the contrary, loneliness is most certainly _not _self-imposed, for instance, on shut-ins or the elderly who can no longer drive and are dependent on others to come to them, said others, whether you're talking about relatives (since people are having fewer and fewer kids) or volunteer or hired government assistance workers, becoming scarce due to both Covid and the too-low pay for such hard, heartbreaking work. 

And a lot of the activities that have been mentioned above that one can get out and do, volunteering, etc. are just not available in some of the smaller towns. I know someone, for instance who lives in a small enough town that there are literally no volunteer opportunities, no even part-time jobs (seriously; very few places are still open), no clubs of any kind, nothing to do but go drink in a bar (which is not her cuppa tea). Oh, okay, you might say, "Move to somewhere better." Not an option due to her husband's job and the lack of affordable places to live in the nearest larger town, which is an hour away. And no, her husband should not quit his job so they could move; he's been there so long now that he'd be ruining his retirement and he's too old to get something just as good.

So, no, loneliness is not always self-imposed; it simply is not. (You know, there are so many people here in the U.S--and probably other countries too--who just don't realize what life is UNvoluntarily like for too many other people in this country, people for whom the standard advice is unusable.


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 22, 2022)

officerripley said:


> On the contrary, loneliness is most certainly _not _self-imposed, for instance, on shut-ins or the elderly who can no longer drive and are dependent on others to come to them, said others, whether you're talking about relatives (since people are having fewer and fewer kids) or volunteer or hired government assistance workers, becoming scarce due to both Covid and the too-low pay for such hard, heartbreaking work.
> 
> And a lot of the activities that have been mentioned above that one can get out and do, volunteering, etc. are just not available in some of the smaller towns. I know someone, for instance who lives in a small enough town that there are literally no volunteer opportunities, no even part-time jobs (seriously; very few places are still open), no clubs of any kind, nothing to do but go drink in a bar (which is not her cuppa tea). Oh, okay, you might say, "Move to somewhere better." Not an option due to her husband's job and the lack of affordable places to live in the nearest larger town, which is an hour away. And no, her husband should not quit his job so they could move; he's been there so long now that he'd be ruining his retirement and he's too old to get something just as good.
> 
> So, no, loneliness is not always self-imposed; it simply is not. (You know, there are so many people here in the U.S--and probably other countries too--who just don't realize what life is UNvoluntarily like for too many other people in this country, people for whom the standard advice is unusable.


QFT.


----------



## Shero (Jan 22, 2022)

There is a key difference between "being lonely" and "being alone." Being alone is a state of being - loneliness on the other hand is : a feeling.

People can be perfectly happy being by themselves - but - they can also be lonely even if they are with a group of people.

Everyone needs human interaction to varying degrees. It takes a person with iron clad core stability to exist without it. Oh yes, it can be done, for a long while but eventually there comes a time when that person’s mentality suffers greatly.

It is good for anyone’s health to seek outside stimulation. But it is always good to enjoy your solitude when you return home, if that is what you want.

Social interaction can also be achieved over the phone, one really has to investigate and not give up.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 22, 2022)




----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 23, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> Speaking as a psychologist, I adamantly disagree with you. There is nothing imaginary about loneliness. I find your perspective lacks an understanding of  those who are simply wired differently than you, or whose life experiences affected them differently.




At one time I did study psychology including numerous works by Freud, Jung, and Erikson but lost interest in the subject. Thus, I am not unfamiliar with its teaching.  As a psychologist you know that there is a co-relation between loneliness and self esteem. While you are certainly entitled to your viewpoint I uphold the more popular notion that,

https://quotefancy.com/quote/41097/...neliness-There-is-only-the-idea-of-loneliness


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 23, 2022)

officerripley said:


> On the contrary, loneliness is most certainly _not _self-imposed, for instance, on shut-ins or the elderly who can no longer drive and are dependent on others to come to them, said others, whether you're talking about relatives (since people are having fewer and fewer kids) or volunteer or hired government assistance workers, becoming scarce due to both Covid and the too-low pay for such hard, heartbreaking work.
> 
> And a lot of the activities that have been mentioned above that one can get out and do, volunteering, etc. are just not available in some of the smaller towns. I know someone, for instance who lives in a small enough town that there are literally no volunteer opportunities, no even part-time jobs (seriously; very few places are still open), no clubs of any kind, nothing to do but go drink in a bar (which is not her cuppa tea). Oh, okay, you might say, "Move to somewhere better." Not an option due to her husband's job and the lack of affordable places to live in the nearest larger town, which is an hour away. And no, her husband should not quit his job so they could move; he's been there so long now that he'd be ruining his retirement and he's too old to get something just as good.
> 
> So, no, loneliness is not always self-imposed; it simply is not. (You know, there are so many people here in the U.S--and probably other countries too--who just don't realize what life is UNvoluntarily like for too many other people in this country, people for whom the standard advice is unusable.





This is not the experience we see here in Minnesota.  On the contrary, we often have tv news features which show how ideal small town life is in the rural tundra. Many of these towns have proportionately more churches than we do in the cities, have town ball and/or Legion baseball, agrarian societies, Masons, etc.  Before the current plague started, I communicated with the Christian Good Samaritan organization as I was looking for a possible move to senior housing.  They have no vacancy in the cities but do out in the rural areas. I understand that other church based groups have the same experience. Thus, all the opportunities mentioned above are readily available in the rural regions. In fact, there are possibly more available than in the cities. I cannot speak for other states but that is the way it is here in Minnesota.


----------



## Lara (Jan 23, 2022)

SmoothSeas said:


> I indulge in my interests and my hobbies and give free reign to my curiosity.


I read about a new study, as of yesterday, that listed signs of intelligence and "curiosity" was one of them.


----------



## officerripley (Jan 23, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> This is not the experience we see here in Minnesota.  On the contrary, we often have tv news features which show how ideal small town life is in the rural tundra. Many of these towns have proportionately more churches than we do in the cities, have town ball and/or Legion baseball, agrarian societies, Masons, etc.  Before the current plague started, I communicated with the Christian Good Samaritan organization as I was looking for a possible move to senior housing.  They have no vacancy in the cities but do out in the rural areas. I understand that other church based groups have the same experience. Thus, all the opportunities mentioned above are readily available in the rural regions. In fact, there are possibly more available than in the cities. I cannot speak for other states but that is the way it is here in Minnesota.


As to the churches, although the friend I mentioned above in that hopeless small town does happen to be a Christian, the only churches in her town number 3: one Catholic church (she does not care for Catholicism) and the other 2 are extreme fundamentalist (not her cuppa tea either). So she worships alone. I knew someone else who used to live there and said that the people who went to all 3 of those churches were the craziest, meanest in town. I think that happens a lot in towns small enough--maybe not in Minnesota but there are a whole lot of other rural small town in states other than Minn. here in this country with a whole lot of problems.


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 23, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> At one time I did study psychology including numerous works by Freud, Jung, and Erikson but lost interest in the subject. Thus, I am not unfamiliar with its teaching.  As a psychologist you know that there is a co-relation between loneliness and self esteem. While you are certainly entitled to your viewpoint I uphold the more popular notion that,
> 
> https://quotefancy.com/quote/41097/...neliness-There-is-only-the-idea-of-loneliness


Again, we disagree. I have found that all too often the notion of  poor self esteem is used as a convenient catch all for any number of human conditions. I work in the trenches, loneliness, 

like despair, trauma, etc, is all too real. Human emotions are rarely tidy, and almost always resistant  to a linear format. Very few of us follow a Mr. Spock approach. For those who have 

been spared loneliness, I applaud your good fortune. You have dodged an emotional bullet.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 23, 2022)

officerripley said:


> As to the churches, although the friend I mentioned above in that hopeless small town does happen to be a Christian, the only churches in her town number 3: one Catholic church (she does not care for Catholicism) and the other 2 are extreme fundamentalist (not her cuppa tea either). So she worships alone. I knew someone else who used to live there and said that the people who went to all 3 of those churches were the craziest, meanest in town. I think that happens a lot in towns small enough--maybe not in Minnesota but there are a whole lot of other rural small town in states other than Minn. here in this country with a whole lot of problems.



It is true that all too often these evangelical type churches succumb to a form of political radical extremism which has absolutely no basis in Christianity or biblical teaching.  But prejudice such as anti-Catholicism is something they do and she should not allow herself to succumb to this problem.  Many progressive churches today engage in online worship and perhaps she may consider doing something like that: https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...rome..69i57.6982j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I wish your friend the very best.


----------



## officerripley (Jan 23, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> It is true that all too often these evangelical type churches succumb to a form of political radical extremism which has absolutely no basis in Christianity or biblical teaching.  But prejudice such as anti-Catholicism is something they do and she should not allow herself to succumb to this problem.  Many progressive churches today engage in online worship and perhaps she may consider doing something like that: https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...rome..69i57.6982j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
> 
> I wish your friend the very best.


Thanks but I don't think she's prejudiced, not any more than other non-Catholic Christians. Many Christians do not believe in at least some of the basics of the Catholic faith (Luther and Calvin spring to mind).


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 23, 2022)

Sunny said:


> I agree, Oldie. There are always groups to join, friends to spend time with (harder than it used to be, but we can still do it with a mask on), volunteer work, sports, etc.  And at the end of those activities, it feels kind of good to come back to the silence and privacy of my own home. We are only as "alone" as we want to be.


try living out in a tiny village , in  the rural countryside where there's nothing but fields  ..and  then say there's always plenty of  groups to join, sports, or volunteer work, .it's just not true...


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 23, 2022)

officerripley said:


> On the contrary, loneliness is most certainly _not _self-imposed, for instance, on shut-ins or the elderly who can no longer drive and are dependent on others to come to them, said others, whether you're talking about relatives (since people are having fewer and fewer kids) or volunteer or hired government assistance workers, becoming scarce due to both Covid and the too-low pay for such hard, heartbreaking work.
> 
> And a lot of the activities that have been mentioned above that one can get out and do, volunteering, etc. are just not available in some of the smaller towns. I know someone, for instance who lives in a small enough town that there are literally no volunteer opportunities, no even part-time jobs (seriously; very few places are still open), no clubs of any kind, nothing to do but go drink in a bar (which is not her cuppa tea). Oh, okay, you might say, "Move to somewhere better." Not an option due to her husband's job and the lack of affordable places to live in the nearest larger town, which is an hour away. And no, her husband should not quit his job so they could move; he's been there so long now that he'd be ruining his retirement and he's too old to get something just as good.
> 
> So, no, loneliness is not always self-imposed; it simply is not. (You know, there are so many people here in the U.S--and probably other countries too--who just don't realize what life is UNvoluntarily like for too many other people in this country, people for whom the standard advice is unusable.


oops sorry, didn't see this before I posted... but I couldn't agree more ....


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 23, 2022)

officerripley said:


> Thanks but I don't think she's prejudiced, not any more than other non-Catholic Christians. Many Christians do not believe in at least some of the basics of the Catholic faith (Luther and Calvin spring to mind).



OK.  Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote. Thought she may have been prejudiced in some way. Good to know she isn't


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 23, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> try living out in a tiny village , in  the rural countryside where there's nothing but fields  ..and  then say there's always plenty of  groups to join, sports, or volunteer work, .it's just not true...



that may be true where you are but it certainly is not here


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 23, 2022)

Sunny said:


> I agree, Oldie. There are always groups to join, friends to spend time with (harder than it used to be, but we can still do it with a mask on), volunteer work, sports, etc.  And at the end of those activities, it feels kind of good to come back to the silence and privacy of my own home. *We are only as "alone" as we want to be.*




Truer words were never spoken.


----------



## Nathan (Jan 23, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> There was a female radio personality, Dr. Laura, who as I recall said *you shouldn't marry anyone you haven't known for at least two years*.  Good advice.


I remember Dr. Laura, it was probably her that planted that bit of wisdom in my head.  I used that philosophy for my current marriage, worked well.


----------



## ElCastor (Jan 23, 2022)

Nathan said:


> I remember Dr. Laura, it was probably her that planted that bit of wisdom in my head.  I used that philosophy for my current marriage, worked well.


Same here. (-8


----------



## RobinWren (Jan 24, 2022)

Macfan said:


> I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone.
> 
> Robin Williams


Robin Williams was bi polar and in spite of being such a funny comedian he was tormented inside. This statement makes me wonder, I hope that he was not referring to his family because by all accounts they were very supportive.


----------



## RobinWren (Jan 24, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Robin was wrong.  If he wound up with people who made him feel alone he had the material means to ............ leave.  And that goes for most people.  Alone is alone.  There's no comparison to being alone with people.  Outrageous complaint, meaningless, not the same, not at all.


Yes he could leave but his feelings leave with him. Just because he had money does not mean that he would be happier anywhere else. You can't turn it off , I do not agree that it is an outrageous complaint, he dealt every day with conflicting emotions. Life is not so straight forward for those who are bi polar.


----------



## Gary O' (Jan 24, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> Speaking as a psychologist



Hey, yer lonely, yer lonely, no need for psychoanalyst BS


Speaking as a psycho.....wait.....why waste typing more words on this pseudo crap....I created a poster on this several decades ago;


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 24, 2022)

RobinWren said:


> Yes he could leave but his feelings leave with him. Just because he had money does not mean that he would be happier anywhere else. You can't turn it off , I do not agree that it is an outrageous complaint, he dealt every day with conflicting emotions. Life is not so straight forward for those who are bi polar.


I agree, and often it is not very straightforward for many who aren’t bipolar.


----------



## Packerjohn (Jan 25, 2022)

Whether you love being a wall flower or "the life of the party" Covid 19 certainly has put a damper on our society.  During my morning walk I came across a photo album of the good people living up on the 4th floor of my apartment complex.  It showed people sitting together, laughing together and having a drink together.  Seems to me like another world when I look around here and see how life is now.  It's as different as night and day.  No comparison really!


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 25, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> Whether you love being a wall flower or "the life of the party" Covid 19 certainly has put a damper on our society.  During my morning walk I came across a photo album of the good people living up on the 4th floor of my apartment complex.  It showed people sitting together, laughing together and having a drink together.  Seems to me like another world when I look around here and see how life is now.  It's as different as night and day.  No comparison really!




might I suggest teleconferencing ?


----------



## RobinWren (Jan 26, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> I agree, and often it is not very straightforward for many who aren’t bipolar.


Sorry, you are right ,


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 26, 2022)

RobinWren said:


> Sorry, you are right ,


No apologies necessary.


----------



## Pecos (Jan 27, 2022)

This is a very interesting thread with a wide variety of observations, the majority of which strike me as valid for specific people. The early Greek Philosophers (Plato and Socrates) cautioned us against taking a single case such as how any specific individual deals with a subject such as loneliness and trying to apply it to the general broader situation across society as a whole. Some people do very well alone, others need to be closely connected. It just depends on the person.

There were a number of posts that were off-the-cuff and rather short sighted and some those struck me as being a bit destructive. The reaction to therapy in dealing with loneliness stands out as the most misguided. I have never been in therapy myself, but as a senior Naval Officer I have sent numerous male and female sailors to therapy for a wide range of issues. One of the issues being loneliness where therapy helped often enough that it was always worth my time and effort to do this. Isolation from distant family, and divorce were the most common. So, the use of therapy to help people deal with loneliness is definitely not BS.


----------



## mellowyellow (Jan 27, 2022)

Sadly, feelings of loneliness are sometimes traits of the introvert and like someone said, *We are only as "alone" as we want to be.  *But people who have never been lonely don’t understand when their answer to loneliness is easy - just get off your butt and join this or join that. It’s not that easy though, it’s okay for the extravert who loves people, they can fit in anywhere, but not all of us are that lucky.


----------



## Snow74 (Jan 27, 2022)

_loneliness…I live with two other people..my daughter and her husband…I of course love my daughter and her husband is ok…I am lonely…I no longer have close friends my age to chat with…my daughter has no interests in my choice of reading..my beliefs…one can be lonely in a house full of people…_


----------



## Bellbird (Jan 27, 2022)

I agree snow74. You can be alone in a big city, people all around you. The saying ‘you are only alone as we want to be ‘ is very simplistic.


----------



## horseless carriage (Jan 27, 2022)

This thread makes me feel uncomfortable. I have no children, therefore there's no grandchildren or great grandchildren, yet I have numerous friends, dear friends, some of whom would give me their last penny if I was in financial trouble. And then I read here of members who feel almost abandoned by their own family.

What an indictment on today's generation. There's a couple that we know, who are generous to a fault, yet the way that their five adult children treat them, it's no surprise to us when this loving and lovely couple say that, given their time over again, they would think, long and hard, about starting a family. That is so sad.


----------



## Snow74 (Jan 27, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> This thread makes me feel uncomfortable. I have no children, therefore there's no grandchildren or great grandchildren, yet I have numerous friends, dear friends, some of whom would give me their last penny if I was in financial trouble. And then I read here of members who feel almost abandoned by their own family.
> 
> What an indictment on today's generation. There's a couple that we know, who are generous to a fault, yet the way that their five adult children treat them, it's no surprise to us when this loving and lovely couple say that, given their time over again, they would think, long and hard, about starting a family. That is so sad.


----------



## Pepper (Jan 27, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> What an indictment on today's generation.


I staunchly disagree.  It was our parents generation who started the practice of dumping their parents in nursing (care) homes.

Today's generation is no better or worse than any other and people who complain about the youngins (sic) sound like...........like.............ok, old farts!


----------



## horseless carriage (Jan 27, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I staunchly disagree.  It was our parents generation who started the practice of dumping their parents in nursing (care) homes.


That's not been my experience, but your robust response has taught me to be a little more thoughtful before replying.


----------



## Shero (Jan 27, 2022)

If some people have the mentality that their children should look after them in their old age - then- they will always be disappointed.
They brought chldren into the world, set them free to explore, to grow, to live.
I know if we need anything our children will provide because they love us.
However, we do not, because we have provided for ourselves, in order not to burden our children.
.


----------



## Gary O' (Jan 27, 2022)

Pecos said:


> So, the use of therapy to help people deal with loneliness is definitely not BS.


Sorry to stir you so, @Pecos 
Guess I tend to let my personal experience with the 'therapy' on my schizophrenic son override my better judgement.
He's gone now, so I best let some stuff go. 

I'll do my best to refrain from here on out on this forum.


----------



## Snow74 (Jan 27, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> Sadly, feelings of loneliness are sometimes traits of the introvert and like someone said, *We are only as "alone" as we want to be.  *But people who have never been lonely don’t understand when their answer to loneliness is easy - just get off your butt and join this or join that. It’s not that easy though, it’s okay for the extravert who loves people, they can fit in anywhere, but not all of us are that lucky.


I am an extrovert..I lived in Sudbury where the bus stop was on the corner..my friends were close by…here in Barrie all is far..I do not drive and taxis are expensive….I do not want to use my daughter as a chauffeur..soo I will make this forum my go to friend place


----------



## officerripley (Jan 27, 2022)

Snow74 said:


> I am an extrovert..I lived in Sudbury where the bus stop was on the corner..my friends were close by…here in Barrie all is far..I do not drive and taxis are expensive….I do not want to use my daughter as a chauffeur..soo I will make this forum my go to friend place


I'm kind of in a similar boat. I'm 4 miles away from anything other than a gas station convenience store and don't drive myself except once in a great while.


----------



## Gary O' (Jan 27, 2022)

Pecos said:


> So, the use of therapy to help people deal with loneliness is definitely not BS.


Heh, I can't seem to let this go.
Guess, some of us seniors tote some baggage.
Guess I'm one of 'em
Guess my baggage is Samsonite

Hope you can forgive me @Pecos 

and I apologize to anyone else here I offended

I'm gonna go butcher some wood for awhile
...short on kindling


----------



## Shero (Jan 27, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> Heh, I can't seem to let this go.
> Guess, some of us seniors tote some baggage.
> Guess I'm one of 'em
> Guess my baggage is Samsonite
> ...


No, therapy does not help everyone. There are all the variables to consider before deciding whether therapy is for you or not.
You are in pain about your son, come on give me a hug 
.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 27, 2022)

I have an ideal way to keep you from getting lonely ---  make yourself some *home made ice cream* like I just did. It is infinitely better than anything you buy in a store. So good that I'm almost inclined to eat it all at once.  

*YUM!*


----------



## officerripley (Jan 27, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I have an ideal way to keep you from getting lonely ---  make yourself some *home made ice cream* like I just did. It is infinitely better than anything you buy in a store. So good that I'm almost inclined to eat it all at once.
> 
> *YUM!*


Sounds good but alas, some of us aren't allowed the sugar or the lactose.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 27, 2022)

officerripley said:


> Sounds good but alas, some of us aren't allowed the sugar or the lactose.




Not to worry, Friend!

There are plenty of lactose/sugar free alternatives: lactose and sugar free ice cream - Bing


----------



## officerripley (Jan 27, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Not to worry, Friend!
> 
> There are plenty of lactose/sugar free alternatives: lactose and sugar free ice cream - Bing


All the ones I've tried didn't taste like anything remotely resembling ice cream unfortunately but that's life, I guess.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 27, 2022)

officerripley said:


> All the ones I've tried didn't taste like anything remotely resembling ice cream unfortunately but that's life, I guess.




Have you tried Favorite Day:  Favorite Day Non-Dairy Frozen Dessert Reviews (formerly Archer Farms) (godairyfree.org)

It's made by Target store and comes very close to tasting like the real thing.   If you cannot find heavy cream that is lactose free, try milk that is so, put it into a blender with some rennet for thickening, and add sugar substitute.  It should work.


----------



## Bretrick (Jan 28, 2022)

I am so glad to have started this thread which has allowed so many members to talk of their experiences.
Yes, we are all individuals with our own lived experiences which have made us the person we have become.
My early childhood experiences led me to be independent of other people.
Though I temper this with the fact that if I had not had those early negative experiences then I may well have been more outgoing, more giving, more empathetic
Regressing very early I found ways to amuse myself and this has carried on throughout my life.
I have changed a little from those times.
At one time in my life, if I could not do something by myself I would forego that thing.
Because I would not ask for help, I did not want to interact with people. Find another way to do it or give it up.
These days if I need help with something, I have mellowed enough to ask for help.
Even so, those occasions are extremely rare as I mostly always find a way around my predicament.
My post has elicited 300 responses so it shows that loneliness is an issue in the world today and I thank all of you for sharing your own very personal experiences.
Bretrick


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 28, 2022)

Bretrick said:


> I have mellowed enough to ask for help.



Which is probably the best part of all - the thread shows there are (more often than not) *easy* solutions to this "problem" of loneliness.


----------



## Chet (Jan 28, 2022)

How do you live alone and not get lonely? How do you live with others and not have them get on your nerves?


----------



## Packerjohn (Jan 28, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> might I suggest teleconferencing ?


Teleconferencing was promoted as the "cure to loneliness" at the beginning when Covid hit.  Everybody and his dog seemed to get on this bandwagon.  If you watch the news it's almost all teleconferencing.  However, recently I have read some comments where some people are getting tired of this.  They say it's not as good as a real  one on one in person.  I suppose that teleconferencing is here to stay but hey, anyone for Virtual Sex?  Not the same thing!


----------



## officerripley (Jan 28, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Which is probably the best part of all - the thread shows there are (more often than not) *easy* solutions to this "problem" of loneliness.


Well, that's not exactly what it showed me; I think rather that there are _maybe _easy solutions once in a while. So is the way you feel that there are a lot of easy solutions and it's just that some people aren't smart enough or motivated to "snap out of it"? (Trying to understand your viewpoint and that of some others; having a hard time with that viewpoint.)


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 28, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> bandwagon




Yes, by and large it is a "bandwagon".  Eventually as life normalizes again it will decline in use.  But, as always, its availability proves "loneliness" isn't so staggering a problem as some believe.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 28, 2022)

officerripley said:


> Well, that's not exactly what it showed me; I think rather that there are _maybe _easy solutions once in a while. So is the way you feel that there are a lot of easy solutions and it's just that some people aren't smart enough or motivated to "snap out of it"? (Trying to understand your viewpoint and that of some others; having a hard time with that viewpoint.)




I use the term "solution" but, in fact, I emphasize that this just isn't a problem as it is largely imaginary. Again, I refer to links from psychological sources previously posted on the subject.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 28, 2022)




----------



## Gary O' (Jan 30, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> Heh, I can't seem to let this go.
> Guess, some of us seniors tote some baggage.
> Guess I'm one of 'em
> Guess my baggage is Samsonite
> ...


Now I sicken myself

I'm not sorry

I need no forgiveness 

I can't roll over to misguided bleeding hearts
It's...... just.....not.....in me

Therapists damn near killed my kid back when he was in the nut bin
When I saw him, all shriveled to an emaciated 90 lbs, I wanted to choke the shit outa those therapists 

Still do

I don't need any replies


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Jan 31, 2022)

No such thing as "loneliness" as there are many multiple ways of keeping good company.  One such avenue is Townsends on youtube.  We meet every Friday at 3:00 PM Central. This Friday (or is it next Friday?) we plan on having a discussion on that illuminating masterpiece by Ben Franklin entitled "Fart Proudly".  The subject is one of great importance, especially to us the aged, as science has concluded that,


_"A small study found that the smell of farts, or hydrogen sulfide, can have some incredible health benefits, like helping the person who farted live longer, while the smell can quell dementia. Smelling farts can also help with heart disease, diabetes, and arthritis"_


Unless proven otherwise, I believe this to be incontrovertible truth.

source: Google


----------



## Autumn72 (Mar 10, 2022)

I did re-marry, but I did it right, did the courtship thing for 3 years so that we would get a chance to really *know* each other.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Autumn72 (Mar 10, 2022)

Bretrick said:


> He


Nathan said it best, another thing to do. Not a real bad idea you two.......it might be heavenly.


----------



## Autumn72 (Mar 10, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> No such thing as "loneliness" as there are many multiple ways of keeping good company.  One such avenue is Townsends on youtube.  We meet every Friday at 3:00 PM Central. This Friday (or is it next Friday?) we plan on having a discussion on that illuminating masterpiece by Ben Franklin entitled "Fart Proudly".  The subject is one of great importance, especially to us the aged, as science has concluded that,
> 
> 
> _"A small study found that the smell of farts, or hydrogen sulfide, can have some incredible health benefits, like helping the person who farted live longer, while the smell can quell dementia. Smelling farts can also help with heart disease, diabetes, and arthritis"_
> ...


Google knows everything like you


----------



## Skyking (Mar 17, 2022)

Stop it.....I take everything so seriously. Please tell me you're kidding, right?


----------



## Ruthanne (Mar 18, 2022)

Skyking said:


> Stop it.....I take everything so seriously. Please tell me you're kidding, right?


Try to weigh things against what you believe to be true.  It helped me.  I have taken things seriously too and too much so.  Listen and try to let go as best you can.


----------

