# The liberal media has gone nuts



## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

The liberal media in America has gone absolutely bat Sh*t crazy.

When Bruce Jenner began sex change surgery and re-named himself Kaitlyn Jenner, the leftist/liberal media began referring to him as, "she" and/or "her. 

No matter what modern science can do to alter the outward appearance of an individual, they can not change the DNA of anyone.  

It is for this reason that Bruce Jenner is not, nor can he ever be, a female. A man is a man. A woman is a woman.  And they will always be so.  

The surgeons can "chop it off" and can give him powerful hormones to cause breasts to grow, but that does not make him a female.

If you doubt what I say , then consider the following. If we were to draw blood from 10 different people (5 men and 5 women) and then asked a lab to identify the genders of the blood donors, the lab would, with 100% accuracy, correctly identify the donor's gender. 

If Bruce Jenner was among the 10 people, his blood work would come back as MALE. If we then told the lab they were wrong, and we told them that the blood came from a female, they would think we were NUTS.

The lab is right. It is the media who has gone over the edge into insanity.

Political correctness makes people crazy.


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## Warrigal (Apr 3, 2018)

What law says that 'he' is only applied to males and 'she' is only applied to females?
I grew up in an era where the masculine was said to implicitly include the feminine  as in 'mankind' and 'everyman' being terms that applied to men and women collectively. 

If a person wishes to be referred to as 'he' rather than 'she' or vice versa, why should they not be accommodated? If a ship can be referred to as 'she', why not a transgendered female?


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

Warrigal said:


> What law says that 'he' is only applied to males and 'she' is only applied to females?
> I grew up in an era where the masculine was said to implicitly include the feminine  as in 'mankind' and 'everyman' being terms that applied to men and women collectively.
> 
> If a person wishes to be referred to as 'he' rather than 'she' or vice versa, why should they not be accommodated? If a ship can be referred to as 'she', why not a transgendered female?




I'm not talking about any LAW. I'm talking about common sense. 

If I want to be called a Martian, does that make me a Martian? Come on, simple common sense is needed, not some goofy political correctness garbage. I tell you the world has gone nuts.

I can't speak for anyone else but I refuse to go down the rabbit hole of "Alice In Wonderland: where everything is backwards. Sometimes I think there is absolutely no hope for this world.


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## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

My interest lies in the content of a person’s character, to me, all else is specious. Btw, my nephew’s spouse is transgender, a doctor who works with him in Medecin sans Fronteres.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 3, 2018)

Bruce Jenner has to live with his choices, all we have to do is accept them.

If you want to be called a Martian I'm ok with that.

_"Accepting people does not itself mean agreeing with them, approving of them, waiving your own rights, or downplaying their impact upon you. You can still take appropriate actions to protect or support yourself or others. Or you can simply let people be. Either way, you accept the reality of the other person. You may not like it, you may not prefer it, you may feel sad or angry about it, but at a deeper level, you are at peace with it. That alone is a blessing. And sometimes, your shift to acceptance can help things get better."_ - Rick Hanson Ph.D.


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## Sunny (Apr 3, 2018)

I have absolutely no problem with people who are gay; who am I to decide what their ****** preference should be?  With the "trans" folks, I do have a problem. I agree with Traveler that gender is determined by a person's
DNA, it's hard-wired into every cell of our body, and can't be changed, no matter what our wishes are in the matter.

However, how is this to be implemented?  Let's say a person is being written about in the paper for some reason (good or bad).  Their sex seems uncertain, so what is the reporter to do? Come right out and ask them which
they are?  What if their answer seems dubious to the reporter?  Should the person then be forced to have a blood test?

What if he/she has achieved something truly noteworthy?  Should they then be "exposed" as the other gender than the one they say they are? Wouldn't this be treating them with an extreme lack of respect?

Like most issues, it can get complicated.  What is "right" is not always the first thing that comes to mind.


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## applecruncher (Apr 3, 2018)

How is all this a "liberal media" problem/issue?

Caitlyn Jenner was news in 2015, two and a half yrs ago. Is there something recent that's upsetting you?

Traveler, if you wanted to discuss Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner, fine, but your thread title suggests otherwise.  Or is that your way of skirting a political discussion?


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## hearlady (Apr 3, 2018)

ALL of the media has gone crazy. They all stick to their narrative no matter how ridiculous. They use social media as their sources. Ratings and money are what it's about. Look for real investigative journalists that are not so connected with networks.


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## mitchezz (Apr 3, 2018)

Whenever subjects such as this come up I ask two questions. 1. Who is this harming? 2. How does this affect me? If the answers are no one and it doesn't I just mind my own business. It is what it is.


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## Robusta (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> The liberal media in America has gone absolutely bat Sh*t crazy.
> 
> When Bruce Jenner began sex change surgery and re-named himself Kaitlyn Jenner, the leftist/liberal media began referring to him as, "she" and/or "her.
> 
> ...



*Political correctness causes inflexible,close minded, screwed up conservatives to go crazy.  The rest of us enjoy a kinder gentler type of intercourse, that doesn't belittle or marginalize other people.

What possible difference does what Jenner call herself make to you. Is she paying  your mortgage, are you sleeping with her? If either of the two are true, fine question away!!!!  If not just please go attend to things that are in your within your realm and leave the forward thinkers alone.

I hope for your sake that you are really really old, or the changes that are at long last coming to this country will really push you over the edge.

We as a nation are getting more BROWN, the old norms no longer hold true, but best of all we are inexorably moving down the path to become a more socialist nation.  There may be a few bumps in the road, such as the abomination we are currently suffering under, but we are finally on our way!*


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## Gary O' (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> The liberal media in America has gone absolutely bat Sh*t crazy.
> 
> When Bruce Jenner began sex change surgery and re-named himself Kaitlyn Jenner, the leftist/liberal media began referring to him as, "she" and/or "her.
> 
> ...



so glad that's all cleared up now

tonight

I will sleep


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## JB in SC (Apr 3, 2018)

Sunny said:


> I have absolutely no problem with people who are gay; who am I to decide what their ****** preference should be?  With the "trans" folks, I do have a problem. I agree with Traveler that gender is determined by a person's
> DNA, it's hard-wired into every cell of our body, and can't be changed, no matter what our wishes are in the matter.
> 
> However, how is this to be implemented?  Let's say a person is being written about in the paper for some reason (good or bad).  Their sex seems uncertain, so what is the reporter to do? Come right out and ask them which
> ...



In the bigger scheme it is a bit ludicrous to claim oneself is a different gender. A person can change their name, wear clothing appropriate for the other gender, have surgery, still doesn't mean a person biologically becomes a different gender. I'll be the first to admit I don't get it. A person can do what they like as long as it's not harming others, but doesn't change the biologic fact.


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## DaveA (Apr 3, 2018)

It sounds like a post directed more toward discrediting "liberal media" and the supposed subject of the post (Bruce Jenner in this case) is largely irrelevant.   Many other subjects could be used but the main point would still be "the liberal press".

Lucky that we didn't have such a divided press back in WWII.  The attack on Pearl Harbor, as reported by the same "liberal media", NBC, CBS, etc.)  would have instantly  been refuted by other news sources  causing a delay in responding until it could be decided which was "fake news".  How sad that we have fallen this far as to quibble over every sound bite that reaches our ears.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I'm not talking about any LAW. I'm talking about common sense.





> _Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen._


~ Albert Einstein


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## rgp (Apr 3, 2018)

A person can do what they like as long as it's not harming others, "

I strongly agree here...


And........


"but doesn't change the biologic fact."


 Is in itself a fact....


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

hearlady said:


> ALL of the media has gone crazy. They all stick to their narrative no matter how ridiculous. They use social media as their sources. Ratings and money are what it's about. Look for real investigative journalists that are not so connected with networks.




I agree. Once, not so many years ago, words had real, agreed upon, meanings. Husband, wife, man, woman, marriage, all had a specific meaning. This is no longer the case. Today, in the weird world of the Wacko Leftist Propaganda Machine, if a person speaks of a wife, all of us understood that meant a person with certain biological equipment. But wait, the Brave New World is here, the "wife" can be anything; Male, Female, who the hell knows ? 

The way things are going, soon, if a person speaks about his marriage, that could even mean another species. That person's "marriage" might very well mean he is married to a sheep. Why not ? After all, who is he harming ?


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## Olivia (Apr 3, 2018)

Meaning of GENDER which is not simply or even necessarily biological.



> GENDER
> ˈjendər/
> _noun_
> 
> ...


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## Marie5656 (Apr 3, 2018)

*Sometimes I had the PC movement.  Something are just common sense.  I mean...as someone said, if it does not affect my own life, and if the person is not doing something danger, illegal, or harmful to others, who am I to complain?  
I consider myself pretty open minded and accepting of all.  If a person is gay, trans, bisexual or what ever. Let it be.  If a person is trans, and has had surgery, and leads their life as they are comfortable, let them be.  Let them use the bathroom they are comfortable with.  With so many places now having unisex or "family" bathrooms, then it is a non issue.  I mean, if you saw a trans woman or man in the bathroom, and did not know who they were, you would not even know.  And why should you care?
Trans people, with VERY few exceptions, are not after your kids. They are not pedophiles.  People say they do not want a trans person in the bathroom with their kid.  But what about a man or woman who was born into that gender..I would be more concerned with one of them being a pedophile.  No one thinks of that.

People focus too much on what is below the waist and not as much on what is above the shoulders.  There is more to gender identity than sex.  Live and let live.


*


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

I have just received a number of PM's and reputation comments in support of my opinion. I would very much like those sane people to post on this thread. I know, it is sometimes difficult to make a public stand. but, please, be brave. Please don't allow your voice to remain silent.

I know, I know, it may SEEM like opposing views are in the majority but they are not. It only SEEMS that way because they are so loud and vocal.  Refuse to be intimidated !


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## applecruncher (Apr 3, 2018)

Intimidated? Moi?  uh....nah   :laugh: (Yeah, I know you didn't mean me.)

Sane?  Well, my sanity would be another topic.

Look, Traveler, I'm not going to go back & forth with you.  My point was that your thread title doesn't match the content of your rant. That's all I was saying.  :shrug:


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## C'est Moi (Apr 3, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> In the bigger scheme it is a bit ludicrous to claim oneself is a different gender. A person can change their name, wear clothing appropriate for the other gender, have surgery, still doesn't mean a person biologically becomes a different gender. I'll be the first to admit I don't get it. A person can do what they like as long as it's not harming others, but doesn't change the biologic fact.



Agree.


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## JB in SC (Apr 3, 2018)

Olivia said:


> Meaning of GENDER which is not simply or even necessarily biological.



Gender roles certainly have changed quite a bit over the last twenty years. However, using male or female gender as a ****** reference has been common since the 14th century.


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## Olivia (Apr 3, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Gender roles certainly have changed quite a bit over the last twenty years. However, using male or female gender as a ****** reference has been common since the 14th century.



When you say "since" the 14th century, doesn't really prove that that same usage is the same now as then. If you have a reference for that, I would be interested in seeing it, because of course I am more than happy to be corrected. I just found and posted what I have understood to be currently true.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2018)

Every time I hear the term "liberal media", I make a character judgement about the user.


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## rgp (Apr 3, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> Every time I hear the term "liberal media", I make a character judgement about the user.




And what would that judgement be ?


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## SifuPhil (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> ... I know, I know, it may SEEM like opposing views are in the majority but they are not. It only SEEMS that way because they are so loud and vocal.  Refuse to be intimidated !



Rise up, haters of the world! 

:what:


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> Every time I hear the term "liberal media", I make a character judgement about the user.






rgp said:


> And what would that judgement be ?




Haha. The "judgement" is that the person is capable of thinking for himself.
And, he/she , clearly understands the difference between reality and the fantasy world of Alice In Wonderland.


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## JB in SC (Apr 3, 2018)

Olivia said:


> When you say "since" the 14th century, doesn't really prove that that same usage is the same now as then. If you have a reference for that, I would be interested in seeing it, because of course I am more than happy to be corrected. I just found and posted what I have understood to be currently true.



No argument that it's different now but to say it's always been that way is not consistent with history. You can read further down the page you quoted and find the reference. I mangled the part (I copied and pasted it this time) about it not becoming common until the mid 20 th century which lends credence to this not being some antiquated thinking.

"The sense denoting biological sex has also been used since the 14th century, but this did not become common until the mid 20th century."

Take for instance, calling a sex change surgery, a gender reassessment surgery. Changing one's physical ****** characteristics to one sex or the other seems to be associating with a male or female biological sex. If gender is not considered biological why change the "equipment"?


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## Olivia (Apr 3, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> No argument that it's different now but to say it's always been that way is not consistent with history. You can read further down the page you quoted and find the reference. I mangled the part (I copied and pasted it this time) about it not becoming common until the mid 20 th century which lends credence to this not being some antiquated thinking.
> 
> "The sense denoting biological sex has also been used since the 14th century, but this did not become common until the mid 20th century."
> 
> Take for instance, calling a sex change surgery, a gender reassessment surgery. Changing one's physical ****** characteristics to one sex or the other seems to be associating with a male or female biological sex. If gender is not considered biological why change the "equipment"?



JB, Traveler was using DNA to describe gender which is why I posted what I did. And I never said that the usage of the word gender was never different centuries past, and again I was questioning the usage of gender that Traveler was using implying that it only referred to biological parameters and if it was cut off, it still is symbolically there and the image of that part is apparently inside one's head when supposedly looking at a person as just a person.


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## Don M. (Apr 3, 2018)

The "Media"...especially the televised National Media...has certainly gone Nuts...IMO.  The cable news channels....Fox, CNN, MSNBC...have become little more than conduits for divisive political rhetoric that does little but to harden peoples attitudes.  Unless there is a major natural disaster to report, they spend little time actually reporting current events.  The major networks...ABC, NBC, CBS...aren't much better.  They do report several national events, during the first 15 minutes...but then, the last half of their broadcast is little more than quick bursts of news interspersed between endless "ask your doctor" drug commercials.  Our local TV stations do a far better job than any of the major networks.  

Insofar as the other "topic" of this thread...gender issues...is concerned, I don't really give a hoot about what someone does/thinks about their personal gender.  So long as some "Dude" doesn't rush up and try to plant a lip lock on me, I don't really think much about them.  Homosexuals, etc., have probably been part of the human experience since the days of the Neanderthals, and Eunuchs were part of human society for centuries.  IMO, those who posses Gender issues are probably experiencing some form of Mental problems, and should be helped to find their place in society....But, they should Not try to force their views on others.


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## Happyflowerlady (Apr 3, 2018)

It seems to me that we have two separate topics being deliberated here, and opinions on one are carried over to the other topic. 
As far as the example that was originally given, about a man who chooses to live his life as a woman; I think that this kind of things has been done many times throughout history, but probably most usually as a woman living her life dressed and acting like a man, rather than the opposite. 
Personally, I don’t think that this has actually caused much of a problem, at least until this period in time, and it doesn’t really affect most of our lives when someone chooses to live their life as the opposite sex. 

However, living a life as someone of the opposite gender, and being actually a person of that gender are two totally different things, and this is where the original thread topic (about the news reports) comes into play. 
I agree with Traveller that if blood were drawn, and labeled as from a male or a female, or DNA was checked, then it is going to come back as exactly what gender that blood was taken from, regardless of what gender they “identified as”. 

The use of the term “man” or “mankind “ has always been used to refer to man as a species; but the terms male and female refer specifically to the physical gender that person was born as. 
Except in rare cases, this gender is pretty obvious at birth, and does not change. 

I do not think that it is right that a man can self-identify as a female just so that they can compete with women instead of other men.  This has been happening with athletic competitions, and it gives the men an unfair advantage in the competition. 

If someone makes a public announcement that they are becoming a person of the opposite gender, then it is hard to fault the news media for calling them that, because they could be sued otherwise. 
But no matter what the news refers to a person as, it does not change what their actual gender and DNA shows that they are.


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## Dragonlady (Apr 3, 2018)

When you come right down to it, who cares. It's no one else's business (unless you are going to date/have sex with them).


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## Olivia (Apr 3, 2018)

Sex and Gender



> In general terms, "sex" refers to the biological differences between males and females, such as the genitalia and genetic differences.
> 
> "Gender" is more difficult to define, but it can refer to the role of a male or female in society, known as a gender role, or an individual's concept of themselves, or gender identity.
> 
> ...


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## Camper6 (Apr 3, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> ~ Albert Einstein



I'm willing to bet that Albert Einstein never said that.


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> I'm willing to bet that Albert Einstein never said that.




I totally agree. And if he did he was almost certainly referring to "common sense about scientific matters".


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## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> I'm willing to bet that Albert Einstein never said that.


I’m willing to bet you are incorrect.


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

Any man who has his equipment chopped off, needs to have his head examined.

Moreover, having it chopped off, does NOT make him a female. Throughout all of human history, men have lost their genitalia due to combat wounds, and I would never be so cruel to call him female.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 3, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Rise up, haters of the world!
> 
> :what:



Quiet, you.   I'm painting my sign right now.


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## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Any man who has his equipment chopped off, needs to have his head examined.
> 
> Moreover, having it chopped off, does NOT make him a female. Throughout all of human history, men have lost their genitalia due to combat wounds, and I would never be so cruel to call him female.


Interesting, does the “cruel” appellation also apply to those who wish to be called female? Surely this cannot suggest that female is a lesser title than male.


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## RadishRose (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler, I'm confused now.

What exactly is your point?


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> My interest lies in the content of a person’s character, to me, all else is specious. Btw, my nephew’s spouse is transgender, a doctor who works with him in Medecin sans Fronteres.




You see, right there is what I'm talking about. That "spouse" you speak of could be anything. How are we supposed to know if it is a he that thinks he is a she or a she that thinks she is a he. And what about the nephew ?   Did he "marry" a man who wants to be a woman, or a woman who wants to be a man ?
Pretty freakin' strange behavior.


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## Olivia (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Any man who has his equipment chopped off, needs to have his head examined.
> 
> Moreover, having it chopped off, does NOT make him a female. Throughout all of human history, men have lost their genitalia due to combat wounds, and I would never be so cruel to call him female.



You may like it or not, but that's irrelevant. No one is saying you have to like it or agree with it. We who don't agree with you are just stating our view. If you don't want that then maybe restrict posts to only those that agree with you. 



> A majority of states permit the name and *sex to be changed on a birth certificate, either through amending the existing birth certificate or by issuing a new one. Many states, however, require medical proof of sex reassignment surgery in order to warrant a gender marker change.
> 
> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_United_States



Also, it's hormones that is involved in changing ****** characteristics to more male or more female, not a body part, although from your OP seems to be what you think it does.


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> Traveler, I'm confused now.
> 
> What exactly is your point?




I thought I'd been very clear about my point. The point is , "the world has gone bat sh*t crazy".






Shalimar said:


> Interesting, does the “cruel” appellation also apply to those who wish to be called female? Surely this cannot suggest that female is a lesser title than male.




Not exactly, but it is true that 99.99 % of the worlds straight male population would knock me on my butt if I referred to HIM as a "she". Men have been killed for saying something like that about another man.


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

I must run now. Big chess match coming up. Beautiful sunny day and it'll be fun.

I'll be back.


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## Happyflowerlady (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> You see, right there is what I'm talking about. That "spouse" you speak of could be anything. How are we supposed to know if it is a he that thinks he is a she or a she that thinks she is a he. And what about the nephew ?   Did he "marry" a man who wants to be a woman, or a woman who wants to be a man ?
> Pretty freakin' strange behavior.



This is exactly the thing about the transgender people that puzzles me. Who are they attracted to sexually, and who is attracted to them ? 
For instance (using Traveler’s example again), a man who decides to become a woman. If he is married to a woman who wanted to be married to a man, then does the wife still want to be married now that it is a woman ? 
 Or now that the  he is a she, does “she” want to be married to a man ? 
 It seems like a straight male would not want a ****** relationship with a “woman” who was a biological male, and a homosexual male would not want to either, because the transsexual person is now a female, so no longer attractive to them.

It makes me wonder if  the person who decides to change genders might no longer  be sexually attractive to anyone, at least if they know that this person has changed gender.


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## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> You see, right there is what I'm talking about. That "spouse" you speak of could be anything. How are we supposed to know if it is a he that thinks he is a she or a she that thinks she is a he. And what about the nephew ?   Did he "marry" a man who wants to be a woman, or a woman who wants to be a man ?
> Pretty freakin' strange behavior.


Really? I think you missed my point, Monsieur. These courageous and committed  individuals regularly risk their lives working in war torn areas of the Middle East, providing medical care to those caught in the crossfire. Yet, you seem to dismiss that, and focus on passing judgement on family members. You may choose to find their behaviour “pretty freakin’ strange” I find it a source of inspiration. Their heroism is what is relevant, not their gender or ****** orientation.


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## RadishRose (Apr 3, 2018)

OK, Everyone, Traveler's point for this thread is:

*"the world has gone bat sh*t crazy".*

Now, what else is there to say? Does anyone think they'll change his mind?


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2018)

There is much that could be said here, I will refrain in the interest of peace in my favorite forum.  I do not understand the need to bring forward controversial subjects to our otherwise tranquil board.  There are plenty of outlets for that elsewhere.  I won't use my waning years trying to respond to the silliness, and the foul lines too obvious..  Life, now is too short.


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## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Happyflowerlady said:


> This is exactly the thing about the transgender people that puzzles me. Who are they attracted to sexually, and who is attracted to them ?
> For instance (using Traveler’s example again), a man who decides to become a woman. If he is married to a woman who wanted to be married to a man, then does the wife still want to be married now that it is a woman ?
> Or now that the  he is a she, does “she” want to be married to a man ?
> It seems like a straight male would not want a ****** relationship with a “woman” who was a biological male, and a homosexual male would not want to either, because the transsexual person is now a female, so no longer attractive to them.
> ...


Sexuality is far more fluid than many people  realise. There is a sliding scale, room for variety. Certainly, transgender people do not  all languish alone, rejected by everyone. Like so many things, attitudes regarding this are often generational. Younger people usually  are far more accepting of ****** and gender variations.


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## JB in SC (Apr 3, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> I'm willing to bet that Albert Einstein never said that.



There is some question as to whether it was paraphrased or not. 

"A version of this expression was attributed to Albert Einstein by a journalist named Lincoln Barnett in1948, but Barnett did not use quotation marks. Hence, he may have been paraphrasing a viewpoint he thought was held by Einstein. In addition, Einstein wrote the forward to a book by Barnett containing the expression; hence, there is some evidence that the words accorded with Einstein’s beliefs" 

The alleged quote was in a paragraph with Barnett describing Einstein's unwillingness to accept any principle as "self evident".


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## Dragonlady (Apr 3, 2018)

It never ceases to amaze me at the arrogance of people who feel they have the right to dictate how other people should run their lives. Running your own life should be taking up the bulk of your time and energy.


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> It never ceases to amaze me at the arrogance of people who feel they have the right to dictate how other people should run their lives. Running your own life should be taking up the bulk of your time and energy.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Who said anything about dictating anything ?  Your words, not mine. 

Personally I couldn't care less what people do in the privacy of the bedrooms. However, when it is let loose upon the world, and it becomes something to be "proud of", and is openly discussed on the broadcast media, that is an entirely different matter. When so-called men, dress up as women and attempt to seduce straight men, that is a very different matter. When kindergarten children are taught about transgenderism that is a VERY, VERY, different matter.


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> There is much that could be said here, I will refrain in the interest of peace in my favorite forum.  I do not understand the need to bring forward controversial subjects to our otherwise tranquil board.  There are plenty of outlets for that elsewhere.  I won't use my waning years trying to respond to the silliness, and the foul lines too obvious..  Life, now is too short.




Sorry, but I get incredibly bored with such weighty "important" topics like "What did you have for lunch today ? Or have you ever had a traffic ticket ?"  But, if it would make you more comfortable, I'll try to post a new thread on, what kind of socks are best ? Or perhaps even, the thrilling topic of, "Why do cats jump up on the kitchen counter ?"


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## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Sexuality is far more fluid than many people  realise. There is a sliding scale, room for variety. Certainly, transgender people do not  all languish alone, rejected by everyone. Like so many things, attitudes regarding this are often generational. Younger people usually  are far more accepting of ****** and gender variations.




****** fluidity ? Yep, some people are quite fluid about sexuality. They will do it with any human at any time: man or woman, child or even a beast. It makes no difference to them.  My God, what is next to come out of that closet ?


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## Dragonlady (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Who said anything about dictating anything ?  Your words, not mine.
> ...



You just illustrated what I was referring to.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> ****** fluidity ? Yep, some people are quite fluid about sexuality. They will do it with any human at any time: man or woman, child or even a beast. It makes no difference to them.  My God, what is next to come out of that closet ?


Are you suggesting that somehow there is a causal link between transgenders, pansexuals, and bestiality? Good grief. My nephew and his spouse do not fall into such categories.


----------



## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Are you suggesting that somehow there is a causal link between transgenders, pansexuals, and bestiality? Good grief. My nephew and his spouse do not fall into such categories.





Having never been in the bedroom with such folks, I really couldn't say. But, the longer I live, the more I understand that there seems to be no limit to how bizarre some people are.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Having never been in the bedroom with such folks. I really couldn't say.


That is a very pointed remark, and disrespects my family. Surely we can agree to disagree without it becoming personal.


----------



## Gary O' (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> The way things are going, soon, if a person speaks about his marriage, that could even mean another species. That person's "marriage" might very well mean he is married to a sheep. Why not ? After all, who is he harming ?


The sheep?


----------



## Marie5656 (Apr 3, 2018)

*
I feel this is a hot button topic in which we may all need to agree that we do not all share the same opinions.  I think we are all adult enough to express differing views and discuss them.  I think this is happening here.  
Being that I can respect gender equality, and the freedom to express ones sexuality I will allow I may be in a minority in this forum.  I am cool with that. I like this place and the fact that se can discuss our opinions.
*


----------



## IKE (Apr 3, 2018)

Gary O'; The sheep ? 


Gary.........

[ATTACH type="full" said:
			
		

> 50549[/ATTACH]
> 
> *LOL*


----------



## Gary O' (Apr 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Having never been in the bedroom with such folks, I really couldn't say. But, the longer I live, the more I understand that there seems to be no limit to how bizarre some people are.





Traveler said:


> There comes a time in everyone's life that they lose the will to continue.





Traveler said:


> Don't mind me. it's just my physical disease that's wearing me down. I just have gotten to a point where it's affecting me deeply.



Travy, it’s not a wonder yer guts are messed up and you have thoughts of not continuing

I mean, these topics are real downers

Hell, I've only dedicated ten minutes to yer threads and _ I _wanna off something


Why the obsession?


Wait a minit..

Am I on ignore?


Maybe it’s due to my little operation…









Seriously, go outside

breathe deep
life is too long


----------



## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Are you suggesting that somehow there is a causal link between transgenders, pansexuals, and bestiality? Good grief. My nephew and his spouse do not fall into such categories.





Traveler said:


> Having never been in the bedroom with such folks, I really couldn't say. But, the longer I live, the more I understand that there seems to be no limit to how bizarre *some *people are.





Shalimar said:


> That is a very pointed remark, and disrespects my family. Surely we can agree to disagree without it becoming personal.




I didn't say a word about bestiality in your family. You asked a question, and I said I couldn't say.  I said  that *SOME *people can be bizarre. And I certainly never said there was a causal link between transgenders, pansexuals and bestiality.
(by pansexual I assume you mean someone who will have sex with anyone or any thing. If so, that is one very bizarre person.)


----------



## Keesha (Apr 3, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> When you come right down to it, who cares. It's no one else's business (unless you are going to date/have sex with them).


My thoughts exactly. 
Live and let live.


----------



## Keesha (Apr 3, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Travy, it’s not a wonder yer guts are messed up and you have thoughts of not continuing
> 
> I mean, these topics are real downers
> 
> ...




Hahaha Gary. Hilarious


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Hahaha Gary. Hilarious


He is sooooo funny. Weird, but funny. Snicker.


----------



## Gary O' (Apr 3, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> He is sooooo Weeeeeird.


said the shrink

now don't git all smug about yer diagnosis, Doctor

my G kids discovered my traits a decade or so ago
sent me their rendition of me


----------



## Keesha (Apr 3, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> said the shrink
> 
> now don't git all smug about yer diagnosis, Doctor
> 
> ...



Funny people make the world go round. 
Bless your silly heart. Lol!


----------



## Butterfly (Apr 3, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> When you come right down to it, who cares. It's no one else's business (unless you are going to date/have sex with them).



I could not agree more!  Someone else's choice about how to run their own personal life is none of my business at any level.

I do not understand why the issues of gay-ness, trans-ness, etc. seem to cause such ire and hate in some people (is it fear?).  What gives anyone the right to condemn anyone else's private lifestyle or what goes on in someone else's bedroom?


----------



## Keesha (Apr 3, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> I could not agree more!  Someone else's choice about how to run their own personal life is none of my business at any level.
> 
> I do not understand why the issues of gay-ness, trans-ness, etc. seem to cause such ire and hate in some people (is it fear?).  What gives anyone the right to condemn anyone else's private lifestyle or what goes on in someone else's bedroom?



Yes I think it’s fear. People fear what they don’t understand.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> I could not agree more!  Someone else's choice about how to run their own personal life is none of my business at any level.
> 
> I do not understand why the issues of gay-ness, trans-ness, etc. seem to cause such ire and hate in some people (is it fear?).  What gives anyone the right to condemn anyone else's private lifestyle or what goes on in someone else's bedroom?


Some folks are uncomfortable with a reality  which does not subscribe to their particular viewpoint. Carried to excess, this discomfort can lead to obsession, which opens a whole new can of worms. Also, the more unhappy the individual, the greater the chance that they will lash out at others.


----------



## Gary O' (Apr 3, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Funny people make the world go round.
> Bless your silly heart. Lol!



on a serious note;

as much as I enjoy humor, from anyone anywhere anything

I use it to the best of my ability to suppress this freaking temper of mine
it's working better than the 'righteous indignation' excuse I used to refer to my behavior 

...sides, life is waaaay long


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> said the shrink
> 
> now don't git all smug about yer diagnosis, Doctor
> 
> ...


Hang on to your Celtic knickers, p’tit. After all, this psychotherapissed not only identifies as a bellydancing, shapeshifting mermaid, but is engaged to a Yankee Martial Arts Master who sports some rather feminine Bunny suits. Safe to say, I am not overly mainstream. Lmao.


----------



## Gary O' (Apr 3, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> but is engaged to a Yankee Martial Arts Master who sports some rather feminine Bunny suits.


seen 'em

can't remove that image

tried


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> seen 'em
> 
> can't remove that image
> 
> tried


Rrrassspberrrry. Tu es magnifique.


----------



## Gary O' (Apr 3, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Rrrassspberrrry. Tu es magnifique.


Moi?

(thank you Google translate)


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

En.





Gary O' said:


> Moi?
> 
> (thank you Google translate)


De rien.


----------



## Leonie (Apr 3, 2018)

It's an interesting discussion. 

A couple of decades ago when I was first separated from my husband I chose to be addressed as Ms rather than Mrs on the occasions the title needed to be used. The number of people who had a problem with that amazed me. 

These days, of course, no one even gives that title a second thought.  I chose it because I didn't feel as though I fitted into either of the other two categories.

Sometimes I wonder if transgender people might feel the same way.  Some transgender people don't appear to want to identify with either gender and present rather as a combination of both.

I wonder if there was a third option to be identified by, rather than male or female, would they choose that? 

And would that make people like Traveller happier or less happy?


----------



## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2018)

Like the guy who goes to the shrink for his self diagnosed inferiority complex, and after severl sessions the doc says "you won't need to come see me anymore!"  The guy says "you mean I'm cured?"  The doc replied "no! It wasn't a complex, you are truly inferior!"


----------



## Gary O' (Apr 3, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> Like the guy who goes to the shrink for his self diagnosed inferiority complex, and after sever sessions the doc says "you won't need to come see me anymore!"  The guy says "you mean I'm cured?"  The doc replied "no! It wasn't a complex, you are truly inferior!"



I did a poster in that vein


----------



## Camper6 (Apr 3, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I’m willing to bet you are incorrect.



What are the stakes?


----------



## Traveler (Apr 3, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Yes I think it’s fear. People fear what they don’t understand.




Don't be too sure about that. You have no idea of what I have seen and experienced. Truly, very people could even begin to imagine my life.


----------



## Dragonlady (Apr 4, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Don't be too sure about that. You have no idea of what I have seen and experienced. Truly, very people could even begin to imagine my life.


And you have no idea what what the rest of us have seen and experienced. You can't even begin to imagine our lives.. We are each a unique set of experiences.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 4, 2018)

Dragonlady said:


> And you have no idea what what the rest of us have seen and experienced. You can't even begin to imagine our lives.. We are each a unique set of experiences.


Indeed.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 4, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> What are the stakes?


Hmm. I love a challenge, what do you suggest?


----------



## Traveler (Apr 4, 2018)

Robusta said:


> *Political correctness causes inflexible,close minded, screwed up conservatives to go crazy.
> 
> I hope for your sake that you are really really old, or the changes that are at long last coming to this country will really push you over the edge. *





AZ Jim said:


> Every time I hear the term "liberal media",* I make a character judgement* about the user.





Dragonlady said:


> It never ceases to amaze me at the* arrogance* of people who feel they have the right to dictate how other people should run their lives.





Butterfly said:


> I do not understand why the issues of gay-ness, trans-ness, etc. seem to cause *such ire and hate* in some people (is it fear?).





Traveler said:


> Don't be too sure about that. You have no idea of what I have seen and experienced. Truly, very people could even begin to imagine my life.





Dragonlady said:


> And you have no idea what what the rest of us have seen and experienced. You can't even begin to imagine our lives.. We are each a unique set of experiences.




Dragonlady, there is a gaping hole in your comeback.* I am not getting personal* by calling you *arrogant*, as you called me.. 

Nor am I saying any of our posters are "*inflexible, close-minded and screwed up." *

Neither did I say, *"I hope for your sake that you are really, really old and that the changes coming to this country will really* *push you over the edge".*

Nor did I say, that any of our posters are filled with* "ire and hatred".* 

Neither did I say, *"I make a character judgement"* of anyone here.

 I make statements about what I think, and how I feel. *Many, many others including* *you, Dragonlady, make personal attacks.  That is the difference between us. 

Lastly, I have noticed a tendency for people , on this forum, to berate, and try to humiliate anyone who does not follow in lock-step with the political correctness platform.  But, that does not bother me, for I understand  that is what political correctness is all about, lock-step thinking. The left talks a lot about acceptance and inclusiveness, provided, of course, that  everyone thinks the same way. *


----------



## oldman (Apr 4, 2018)

rgp said:


> A person can do what they like as long as it's not harming others, "
> 
> I strongly agree here...
> 
> ...




Or, as my Supervisor put it one time, "If common sense was common, everyone would have some, but that's not always the case. I would rather use the term, "having good sense." I always liked that. I didn't think he was smart enough to think of that quote himself. I always thought that he probably read that quote in either a book or magazine.


----------



## Gary O' (Apr 4, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Don't be too sure about that. You have no idea of what I have seen and experienced. Truly, very people could even begin to imagine my life.



Oh, give it a shot anyway

Let's start with, saaaaaay..... environment

What's the temp on your planet?


----------



## Traveler (Apr 4, 2018)

It was my original intent to talk abut the media and I happened to choose, as one example of many, their calling Bruce Jenner a "she".
Bruce Jenner is male and always will be. That is not just my opinion, it is a scientific fact. 

No matter what some people choose to think, I don't hate Bruce Jenner. I feel sorry for him.

It was my intention to demonstrate that all of the MAJOR media are owned, lock, stock and barrel by the far left. 
If we look at the news pieces of NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, The N.Y Times, and The Washington Post, we see a common thread. All of them hate conservatives with a passion. IMO they are in league with the far left and have been so for most of my lifetime.

There is a journalist by the name of Bernard Goldberg, who wrote two earthshaking books named "Bias" and followed that with "Arrogance".
In those two books he outlined, in specific detail, how the MAJOR media slants the news to suit the leftist agenda. If memory serves, Mr. Goldberg was once a top reporter for CBS News. You may remember him. 

Mr. Goldberg, eventually quit working for CBS because he came to understand just how biased they really are and he could no longer stomach their twisting of the news. 

There are two other supremely intelligent authors by the names of Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter. Both of those ladies have had a profound impact on my thinking and indeed on my life. 

Anyone who is seriously interested in looking at the other side of the coin (there is another side, you know) I would strongly encourage them to read all of their books. Of course, if people are not willing to acknowledge that there just might be some truth in what they have to say, then just pretend those 3 authors do not exist.


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## Keesha (Apr 4, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Don't be too sure about that. You have no idea of what I have seen and experienced. Truly, very people could even begin to imagine my life.



I’m not sure how I missed this but YOU have no idea what my life has been like before you start recycling all this BS once more. If you were to experience the same things I have I can guarantee YOU would no longer be here. It’s literally a miracle that I’m still alive. 
Perhaps be more careful what you assume about people .
Youre a very bitter man with a HUGE chip on your shoulder. Correction! A boulder.


----------



## Keesha (Apr 4, 2018)

Traveler said:


> It was my original intent to talk abut the media and I happened to choose, as one example of many, their calling Bruce Jenner a "she".
> Bruce Jenner is male and always will be. That is not just my opinion, it is a scientific fact.
> 
> No matter what some people choose to think, I don't hate Bruce Jenner. I feel sorry for him.
> ...



Who the blank cares!!!!


----------



## Gary O' (Apr 4, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Don't be too sure about that. You have no idea of what I have seen and experienced. Truly, very people could even begin to imagine my life.





Traveler said:


> It was my original intent to talk abut the media and I happened to choose, as one example of many, their calling Bruce Jenner a "she".
> Bruce Jenner is male and always will be. That is not just my opinion, it is a scientific fact.
> 
> No matter what some people choose to think, I don't hate Bruce Jenner. I feel sorry for him.
> ...



Wow!!!

I had no idea!

No idea someone could be so impacted by the evil media
And live to tell about it

I’ll now try to get through this pathetic day of mine


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## Mizzkitt (Apr 4, 2018)

Something to think about. Here in Ontario the government pays for the surgery from start to finish, some have a problem with their tax $$$ going toward this when on the other hand the government denied paying for surgery just yesterday for a woman that could have surgery preventing blindness. 

Something not quite right here.


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## Sunny (Apr 4, 2018)

> When kindergarten children are taught about transgenderism that is a VERY, VERY, different matter.



Really, Traveler?  Where?  In what kindergarten?  Sounds like you've fallen for some of the horror stories concocted by the "cultural Marxism" crowd, again.


----------



## Mizzkitt (Apr 4, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Really, Traveler?  Where?  In what kindergarten?  Sounds like you've fallen for some of the horror stories concocted by the "cultural Marxism" crowd, again.



Actually Sunny the transgender topic is included in the grade school curriculum here in Ontario. That among other things of a ****** nature which has many parents upset who believe that it should be taught at home.


----------



## Keesha (Apr 4, 2018)

Mizzkitt said:


> Actually Sunny the transgender topic is included in the grade school curriculum here in Ontario. That among other things of a ****** nature which has many parents upset who believe that it should be taught at home.



I’m not transgender or anything, not that it’s anybodys business, nor do I care about anyone else’s gender or ****** orientation and I might get boo’ed here but I think it’s a good idea to teach kids this stuff at an early age along with tolerance of other races and religions. 

Was that a run on sentence or what? :lol:

It would better prepare kids for real life and perhaps take away some of the stigmas attached. 

My husband is a manager of a company where one of the employees has gone through a sex change. When this person started at the plant they were a female employee. Now they are male in a male dominated plant. 
Its a tough situation when they go to shower and change in the locker room but this is life and these people have a right to make these types of decisions regardless of anybody else’s opinion.


----------



## Mizzkitt (Apr 4, 2018)

Keesha, agree that kids need to be taught but I question that the role of parents is being dismissed. Teaching a 5 year old sex could be a frightening topic without a parent.  A better solution might be to include the parents in the discussion. Something along the lines of a teacher/parent/child get together.


----------



## Keesha (Apr 4, 2018)

Mizzkitt said:


> Keesha, agree that kids need to be taught but I question that the role of parents is being dismissed. Teaching a 5 year old sex could be a frightening topic without a parent.  A better solution might be to include the parents in the discussion. Something along the lines of a teacher/parent/child get together.



Absolutely! Parents should definitely be included before the discussion even takes place. 
It IS a sensitive topic after all and they are YOUR children. Yep! :thumbsup:


----------



## C'est Moi (Apr 4, 2018)

I'll just interject that I totally agree that there is media bias; that should be obvious to all.   I would appreciate any news outlet just REPORTING the damn news without "spin."


----------



## JB in SC (Apr 4, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> I'll just interject that I totally agree that there is media bias; that should be obvious to all.   I would appreciate any news outlet just REPORTING the damn news without "spin."



The millions that watched the big three for generations has been disillusioned by the spin. I see why no one trusts any of them. The lead ins are just like current online newspaper headlines, they seldom reflect the actual story. Small local stations are still plugging along with good reporting. I change the channel when the national news comes on.


----------



## Keesha (Apr 4, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Who the blank cares!!!!



Actually Traveller, I apologize for my words. You have every right to express your point of view and I had no right to treat you so harshly.

:sorry:


----------



## SifuPhil (Apr 4, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> The millions that watched the big three for generations has been disillusioned by the spin. I see why no one trusts any of them. The lead ins are just like current online newspaper headlines, they seldom reflect the actual story. Small local stations are still plugging along with good reporting. I change the channel when the national news comes on.



The thing with local news is that they've taken the "if it bleeds it leads" maxim to heart. At least here, it has to be an 80/20 split between bad and good news.


----------



## C'est Moi (Apr 4, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> The millions that watched the big three for generations has been disillusioned by the spin. I see why no one trusts any of them. The lead ins are just like current online newspaper headlines, they seldom reflect the actual story. Small local stations are still plugging along with good reporting. I change the channel when the national news comes on.



Sadly, so many people have "drunk the Koolaid" and worship at the altar of their "news" outlet... the Fox News fanatics, MSNBC lemmings, CNN cult, etc.    I prefer to hear the actual news and form my own opinions, but getting unbiased reporting, even in print, is a challenge.


----------



## helenbacque (Apr 4, 2018)

When I'm in the mood for some news, I watch a little of the far left, then a little of the far right and know that the truth is somewhere in the middle.  

If I'm curious about what's going on in the rest of the world, I go to BBC since most U. S. news outlets act as if there is no 'rest of the world' unless it involves this country.


----------



## TonyK (Apr 4, 2018)

Reuters seems fair and unbiased. Google to find other middle of the road media news sources.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 4, 2018)

There are many on this site, like Keesha, whose survival, sanity, and humanity should be celebrated as the miracles they are. The strength of the human spirit never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## Traveler (Apr 4, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Actually Traveller, I apologize for my words. You have every right to express your point of view and I had no right to treat you so harshly.
> 
> :sorry:




Thank you, Keesha. I appreciate and accept your apology. I admire character in a person. No hard feelings.


----------



## Traveler (Apr 4, 2018)

No matter what our political views, we should, all of us, be extremely concerned when any reporter, much less the network anchors flat out lie to us. Two cases in point. I assume we all remember Dan Rather and Brian Williams but do you remember why they were fired from their top-of-the-top news editor positions ?

Dan Rather was fired from his job as Editor in Chief / National anchor of CBS, (2004, just prior to the National Election) when he was caught try to frame a U.S. President.  Together in cahoots with a reporter from The N.Y. Times (I don't recall her name), they had documents forged about the U.S. President and then broadcast the story as fact. Such lies are a disgrace. Dan Rather, that two-faced leftist, then actually had the unmitigated gall to say, just prior to the firing, "It pains me to have to report such facts about President ****, but I have a job to do" 

Pains him ? Give me a break ! Secretly, behind closed doors, he was probably overjoyed at the prospect of bringing down a Republican President. 

Brian Williams was fired because he had completely made up a war story which was designed to make himself look heroic. Its been a few years now and I've forgotten the exact details, but the helicopter he was riding in was not "bullet riddled" and his life was never in any danger. Williams' "story" may not have been as egregious as the Dan Rather story but it clearly demonstrates the willingness of some reporters to lie to the American people.


----------



## Keesha (Apr 4, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Thank you, Keesha. I appreciate and accept your apology. I admire character in a person. No hard feelings.


Thank you! 

:thankyou:


----------



## Olivia (Apr 4, 2018)

Traveler said:


> No matter what our political views, we should, all of us, be extremely concerned when any reporter, much less the network anchors flat out lie to us. Two cases in point. I assume we all remember Dan Rather and Brian Williams but do you remember why they were fired from their top-of-the-top news editor positions ?
> 
> Dan Rather was fired from his job as Editor in Chief / National anchor of CBS, (2004, just prior to the National Election) when he was caught try to frame a U.S. President.  Together in cahoots with a reporter from The N.Y. Times (I don't recall her name), they had documents forged about the U.S. President and then broadcast the story as fact. Such lies are a disgrace. Dan Rather, that two-faced leftist, then actually had the unmitigated gall to say, just prior to the firing, "It pains me to have to report such facts about President ****, but I have a job to do"
> 
> ...



At what point does it become apparent that the entire purpose of a thread is to inflame and to divide people, and now using politics to do so?  Disgusting.


----------



## NancyNGA (Apr 4, 2018)

Olivia said:


> At what point does it become apparent that the entire purpose of a thread is to inflame and to divide people, and now using politics to do so?  Disgusting.


Yes!


----------



## NancyNGA (Apr 4, 2018)

Olivia said:


> At what point does it become apparent that the entire purpose of a thread is to inflame and to divide people, and now using politics to do so?  Disgusting.


Yes!  Exactly.


----------



## Traveler (Apr 4, 2018)

For those of you who are honestly interested in learning how crazy the leftist media has become, I r*ecommend the following book by* Michelle Malkin       .
Photo of one of my hero's, the brilliant Michelle Malkin


----------



## Olivia (Apr 4, 2018)

Traveler said:


> For those of you who are honestly interested in learning how crazy the leftist media has become, I r*ecommend the following book by* Michelle Malkin       .View attachment 50596View attachment 50597
> Photo of one of my hero's, the brilliant Michelle Malkin



You have clearly crossed the line with turning this thread into a nasty political one.


----------



## Traveler (Apr 4, 2018)

NancyNGA said:


> Yes!  Exactly.




*Oh, my ! Now I get it. Only liberals are allowed to complain. Duh. Stupid me. When a conservative turns around and points out his complaints , he is DISGUSTING.*


----------

