# San Francisco boycotts over half of the USA.



## Brookswood (Mar 15, 2022)

It seems that San Francisco prohibits the city government from doing business with companies whose US headquarters are in state that do things the Frisco disapproves of.  A total of 28 states are on the list.

I find this attitude to be extremely hypocritical considering that SF gets its water supply by damming Yosemtie National Park.  As far as I know SF is the only city that ever dammed a USA national park to get its water. 



> San Francisco makes this hard. It makes it expensive. A March 4 memorandum from City Administrator Carmen Chu reveals that San Francisco will not enter into contracts with businesses headquartered in most of the United States — 28 states in all. Official travel to those states is also forbidden. And this list includes some surprises: Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Wisconsin.





> Alabama
> 
> Arizona
> 
> ...


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## Don M. (Mar 15, 2022)

It appears that the "Issue" is States with restrictive rules on Abortion, and birth control.  Things must be doing really good in San Francisco if that cities government puts a priority on this subject.


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## Shalimar (Mar 15, 2022)

*There are many people, women in particular, who consider such to be a top priority.*


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## Bellbird (Mar 15, 2022)

Abortion and birth control is a top priority for women, but to be on the list for banning states in the US is a bit over the top. It sounds draconian.


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## Jeni (Mar 15, 2022)

SF accomplishes what by this?   
Virtue signaling and perhaps limiting product / service options .. perhaps costing the city taxpayers more for goods or services.


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## senior chef (Mar 15, 2022)

San Francisco is run by a bunch of lunatics. 
It is one thing to oppose anti-abortion laws, and another thing entirely to ban business with, and travel to, 1/2 of America. 
Can you imagine Texas being the least concerned about what San Francisco does ?


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## JonSR77 (Mar 16, 2022)

isn't that the list of the former Confederate States?


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> isn't that the list of the former Confederate States?


Since there were only 11 states in the confederacy, the answer would be no.  I don't recall Wisconsin being a big slave state.  

San Francisco is an insane asylum.  As sane people move out, it becomes crazier and crazier.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 16, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Since there were only 11 states in the confederacy, the answer would be no.  I don't recall Wisconsin being a big slave state.
> 
> San Francisco is an insane asylum.  As sane people move out, it becomes crazier and crazier.


Oh, I was joking.

I actually lived in San Francisco for a couple of months in 1980. I don't disagree about the craziness. Not at all. Certainly then.

Great national parks in California though!  Redwoods, Sequoia.


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> *There are many people, women in particular, who consider such to be a top priority.*


Please don't travel to Europe, then, because many of their abortion laws are more restrictive than those in the US.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2021/us-abortion-laws-worldwide/


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> Oh, I was joking.
> 
> I actually lived in San Francisco for a couple of months in 1980. I don't disagree about the craziness. Not at all. Certainly then.
> 
> Great national parks in California though!  Redwoods, Sequoia.



Yes, nice scenery.  Too bad about the rest.


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## Alligatorob (Mar 16, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> *There are many people, women in particular, who consider such to be a top priority.*


I understand, but this doesn't seem to be very effective way of protesting...  Draws more ridicule than thoughtful consideration, just look at the replies here.


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## Lara (Mar 16, 2022)

When I lived there in the 80's, California was called the "land of the fruits and nuts". I can't imagine what it would be called now.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 16, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Yes, nice scenery.  Too bad about the rest.


I would say that between the Bay Area and the weirdness of LA and the entertainment industry, it has to come in as one of the weirdest places on earth.  Hells Angels too.  Unfortunately, I met some at a rest stop while traveling.  They were going to jump me and put me in a hospital, but I was quick with some jokes and they started to laugh...and then left me alone.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 16, 2022)

Lara said:


> When I lived there in the 80's, California was called the "land of the fruits and nuts". I can't imagine what it would be called now.


Lara:  That would be the "land of the ORGANIC fruits and nuts."   

and, my work here is done...


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## Shalimar (Mar 16, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Please don't travel to Europe, then, because many of their abortion laws are more restrictive than those in the US.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2021/us-abortion-laws-worldwide/


In Canada, abortion and birth control are readily available,  have been for decades. We are a very secular nation, perhaps that is a contributing factor.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 16, 2022)

Oh, let me explain my "incident" with the Hell's Angels more clearly.  Because it was actually very weird and ended up being fun.

So, I am at this rest stop, a gang of those bikers come in...maybe 20 or 30. 

At the time, I am doing something incredibly weird and nerdy. I am eating a grapefruit like an apple, holding the entire thing in my hand and eating it like an apple.

One of the "Angels" think this is incredibly funny and he decides to pick on me. He walks over towards me and goes, "Nice grapefruit."


And I knew that was a prelude to a beating.

Now, I knew that I had another grapefruit in my backpack.

So, I quickly unzipped my pack, got out the other grapefruit...and I went into a mock quarterback stance, like I was playing football.

I called out signals and threw the Hell's Angel guy a (really good) football pass with the grapefruit. And he caught it. He thought that was the funniest thing. And he just smiled at me and let me go.

Weird moment in time, but fun (at least looking back on it).

"Blue 82, Green 27, hut, hut, hut..."


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## Lara (Mar 16, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> San Francisco Boycotts Over Half the USA



This thread reminds me of this...
California has their warning labels stuck on everything from foods to a fish statue I bought at Homegoods once that said the chemicals used to make the statue could cause cancer. Of course I'd touched it...only way to read the label underneath...too late


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> In Canada, abortion and birth control are readily available,  have been for decades. We are a very secular nation, perhaps that is a contributing factor.


Canada is an outlier.  Most European countries have prohibitions on late term abortions.


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## Shalimar (Mar 16, 2022)

*Yes, as I understand it, we are the only democratic country in the world without laws prohibiting abortion.*


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> *Yes, as I understand it, we are the only democratic country in the world without laws prohibiting abortion.*



No further comment from me.


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## Alligatorob (Mar 16, 2022)

Lara said:


> California has their warning labels stuck on everything


Yep, been doing that for a while.  So common they are meaningless.


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## chic (Mar 16, 2022)

My state is not on the list and I'm worried because this is going too far.


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## Jules (Mar 16, 2022)

The issue may be with “the list of places where state-funded travel is banned because of laws that discriminate against members of the LGBTQ community,”   
Source https://apnews.com/article/californ...vel-business-048670c6461032de3cb67154d624ab13


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## StarSong (Mar 16, 2022)

I agree with SF's stance on LGBTQ and women's rights.  As they say, money talks, b******* walks.  As with any other entity, the city of San Francisco has the right to choose where to spend its money.  

As for California haters, first take the plank out of your own eye so you can see clearly enough to remove the speck from someone else's. There isn't a state in the union nor a country on the planet without serious flaws. We're all just doing the best we can.


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## Murrmurr (Mar 16, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> In Canada, abortion and birth control are readily available,  have been for decades.


Same in the US, Shali, since the mid to late-60s. 

A few states are more restrictive than others - i.e., parental consent or parental knowledge required if patient is legally a minor, or prior counsel with a family therapist required, or no abortion after 3rd trimester - but no law prohibits a young lady or woman from going out of her state to get a safe, legal abortion and avoid her state's requirements. 

And most (if not all) states closed their abortion clinics seceral years ago so that women will get this service at an OB/GYN's office instead. This was because a bunch of abortion clinics came under investigation for insurance fraud, illegal or unapproved fetal tissue sales, over-billing the state, and questionable sanitation.


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## Timewise 60+ (Mar 16, 2022)

No problem, I think over 90% of Americans are boycotting San Fransico, lest they step in the poop!  75% are boycotting California in general.


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## Lethe200 (Mar 16, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Same in the US, Shali, since the mid to late-60s.
> 
> A few states are more restrictive than others - i.e., parental consent or parental knowledge required if patient is legally a minor, or prior counsel with a family therapist required, or no abortion after 3rd trimester - but no law prohibits a young lady or woman from going out of her state to get a safe, legal abortion and avoid her state's requirements.



Not correct. Look up what Idaho just did.


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I agree with SF's stance on LGBTQ and women's rights.  As they say, money talks, b******* walks.  As with any other entity, the city of San Francisco has the right to choose where to spend its money.
> 
> As for California haters, first take the plank out of your own eye so you can see clearly enough to remove the speck from someone else's. There isn't a state in the union nor a country on the planet without serious flaws. We're all just doing the best we can.



I'm not a "California hater," just an objective observer.  California has the highest taxes in the country and the highest number of illegal immigrants.  It ranks fourth in the net number of people (legal residents) moving out of the state.  San Francisco and Los Angeles have severe homelessness problems, exacerbated by wrongheaded policies at the state and local level.  All major cities in the state are experiencing double-digit increases in major crime.  Housing prices are the highest in the country, mostly due to lack of supply, which is due to wrongheaded policies. So are gas prices (taxes again).  The proposed rail transit project is a fiasco, a global joke.   The unemployment rate is more than 50 percent higher than the national average.  

Maybe one-party politics, unrestrained progressivism and undiluted political correctness isn't the way to go?


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Mar 16, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I'm not a "California hater," *just an objective observer.*  California has the highest taxes in the country and the highest number of illegal immigrants.  It ranks fourth in the net number of people (legal residents) moving out of the state.  San Francisco and Los Angeles have severe homelessness problems, exacerbated by wrongheaded policies at the state and local level.  All major cities in the state are experiencing double-digit increases in major crime.  Housing prices are the highest in the country, mostly due to lack of supply, which is due to wrongheaded policies. So are gas prices (taxes again).  The proposed rail transit project is a fiasco, a global joke.   The unemployment rate is more than 50 percent higher than the national average.
> 
> Maybe one-party politics, unrestrained progressivism and undiluted political correctness isn't the way to go?


Too funny! Reminds me of a news channel whose motto is "Fair & Balanced."


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## Lethe200 (Mar 16, 2022)

San Francisco - which FYI is the smallest geographical city and county in the STATE of California - passed these various restrictions on *city government funded travel and expenses. *San Francisco has a city budget for 2021-22 of *$12.6 billion *(nope, not a misprint!).

As pointed out, these SF city laws are mostly due to anti-gay and anti-minority issues in other states. These restrictions have _*nothing to do* _with personal travel or investments of any type. Yes, they are symbolic. But they are also reflections of what many others living outside SF believe in.

San Francisco is the *gateway *to NorCA due to the SFO airport. It is no longer even the business center of the area, due to Silicon Valley, the University of CA network, and the rise of exurb business parks. SF is only one of _nine counties and 101 cities _that make up the San Francisco Bay Area region, which does NOT include (for example) the more populous San Jose/Silicon Valley; the Wine Country counties of Napa, Sonoma, Mendocino; the state capitol Sacramento and Delta regional towns, nor the Sierra counties.

As for Hetch Hetchy reservoir, it took an act of Congress to approve the dam:

" *Hetch Hetchy Environmental Debates*
Between 1908 and 1913, Congress debated whether to make a water resource available or preserve a wilderness when the growing city of San Francisco, California proposed building a dam in the Hetch Hetchy Valley to provide a steady water supply. The Hetch Hetchy Valley was within Yosemite National Park and protected by the federal government, leaving it up to Congress to decide the valley’s fate. National opinion divided between giving San Francisco the right to dam the valley and preserving the valley from development.

...In the end, Congress passed legislation that enabled the creation of a dam in the Hetch Hetchy Valley. President Woodrow Wilson signed the bill into law on December 19, 1913. Although the preservationists lost this battle, the damming of the Hetch Hetchy Valley raised public awareness about the importance of preserving nature, and helped justify the creation of the National Park Service in 1916.
– https://www.archives.gov/legislative/features/hetch-hetchy


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## HoneyNut (Mar 16, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> It seems that San Francisco prohibits the city government from doing business with companies whose US headquarters are in state that do things the Frisco disapproves of.


If it prohibits against dealing with entities that violate peoples rights (voting, their bodies, etc) then I think it is laudable.  I feel like some of the laws lately sound more like what you'd expect in Saudi Arabia not in the United States.  I haven't forgotten that a few years ago one of every three voters in my state voted in favor of keeping slavery in the state constitution.  What if it had been the majority?  I'd hope San Francisco and every other city and state would have boycotted us.


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> Too funny! Reminds me of a news channel whose motto is "Fair & Balanced."


My last sentence was my opinion.  Every other sentence is a verifiable fact.  And I left out a whole lot, like the state's grievously unfunded pension liabilities.


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## Lethe200 (Mar 16, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> It ranks fourth in the net number of people (legal residents) moving out of the state.  San Francisco and Los Angeles have severe homelessness problems, exacerbated by wrongheaded policies at the state and local level.  All major cities in the state are experiencing double-digit increases in major crime.  Housing prices are the highest in the country, mostly due to lack of supply, which is due to wrongheaded policies. So are gas prices (taxes again).  The proposed rail transit project is a fiasco, a global joke.   The unemployment rate is more than 50 percent higher than the national average.


Let's try these facts:
- *California exodus is just a myth, massive UC research project finds*
SFGATE July 8, 2021
https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/California-exodus-is-just-a-myth-massive-UC-16301134.php

_Despite the popular belief that residents are fleeing California, there is not in fact a statewide exodus, new research out of the University of California finds.

The results of the project contradict many of the myths surrounding California and its population. For one, while residents are moving out of state, they are not doing so at "unusual rates." Similarly, the research found no evidence of "millionaire flight" from California and notes that the state continues to attract as much venture capital as all other U.S. states combined, despite the recent exodus of Hewlett-Packard and Oracle.

The report did reveal net migration out of San Francisco during the pandemic. However, about two-thirds of people who left the city remained in the Bay Area, while 80% stayed in California, which is consistent with earlier trends._

Now, some studies do show a decrease (why we, along with several other states, lost a House seat). However, note the economic impact:

*A New Demographic Surprise for California: Population Loss*
California Had 182,083 Fewer Residents in 2020. Here’s Why.
State data released on Friday showed that California’s population decreased in 2020, reflecting a decades-long pattern of slow growth.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/...on=click&module=In Other News&pgtype=Homepage

A recent analysis of 2020 census data that was done by Mr. Johnson at the Public Policy Institute of California found that *those who move in are “more likely to be working age, to be employed, and to earn high wages — and are less likely to be in poverty — than those who move away.”* Numerically, however, the analysis found that 4.9 million people moved into California from other parts of the country, while 6.1 million Californians decamped to other states.
====

We export many things from CA - an extremely high percentage of the country's food supply, and a lot of elderly and poor people. You're welcome!

There is no easy answer to housing and homelessness. If there was only one answer, these twin issues - they go together - would not be a primary consideration in EVERY major city.

"Wrongheaded policies" cause high RE prices? I've rebutted that on Quora several times, and no need to do it again. Let's just say that on the GW forums, one member who lives in Chicago cannot believe how housing prices have risen. There is, according to one government study done recently, not a single major metropolitan city where a family of 4 earning average wages, can afford to buy a home. NOT ONE, in the entire U.S.

I'm fine with gas taxes. I remember what it was like before the EPA (remember the river catching fire - wasn't that Cincinnati?) and smog laws. I have asthma, and it wasn't fun, not being able to breeze without painful wheezing.

Actually a great majority of voters would like to kill the bullet train project, one of Newsom's not so great ideas. I'll give him a reluctant pass on that, he's done reasonably well (better than I thought he would) so far. Notice that Arnold Schwarzenegger, our former Gov and moderate Republican, works very well with Newsom (they've done a number of projects together).

Our unemployment is higher because our hospitality service industry is MASSIVE. Which is why I can't get hard #s on how many restaurants are in our county, because there are so many, plus communal kitchens, pop-ups, food trucks, caterers, and private chefs. The pandemic hurt a lot of those folks, although our restaurant openings are higher than ever (something I do keep track of informally, as I do a foodie newsletter on a regular basis).

CA is always the last to go into a recession and the last to come out of it. Nothing new about that, it's been that way since I've been here (1989) through all four or five recessions.


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

Lethe200 said:


> Let's try these facts:
> - *California exodus is just a myth, massive UC research project finds*
> SFGATE July 8, 2021
> https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/California-exodus-is-just-a-myth-massive-UC-16301134.php
> ...



Thanks.  You just acknowledged that everything I posted was true.  You gave some reasons for why these things are so.  

To wit:  

People are leaving California (true) "Numerically, however, the analysis found that 4.9 million people moved into California from other parts of the country, while 6.1 million Californians decamped to other states."

Wrongheaded policies? Try getting a permit to build anything in California.  And house prices are the highest in the country. (true)

The bullet train project is a fiasco, as you admit. 

Your unemployment rate is very high, as you admit.  

You didn't even bother with the crime rates.  

Homelessness is a problem everywhere, but it's worse in California.  


I'm glad you want to defend your state.  I'm also glad I don't live there.  And you're probably glad I don't live there either.


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## Murrmurr (Mar 16, 2022)

Lethe200 said:


> Not correct. Look up what Idaho just did.


Didn't I say A FEW states are more restrictive?


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## Lethe200 (Mar 16, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> My last sentence was my opinion.  Every other sentence is a verifiable fact.  And I left out a whole lot, like the state's grievously unfunded pension liabilities.


Try Illinois. Only the state of Minnesota is 100% funded on government pensions.


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## Brookswood (Mar 16, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> isn't that the list of the former Confederate States?


No.     Did you snooze through your US History class?   I had two great teachers, but I can also imagine a few who would have tempted me to snooze.


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## Brookswood (Mar 16, 2022)

It's best to work out problems.  IMO, banning, canceling and shutting up other people and groups who think differently smacks of a sanctimonious air of superiority that is not good for vigorous discussion and group problem solving.

FWIW, I think California has a lot going for it. I love the diversity of climate and geography.


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## Lethe200 (Mar 16, 2022)

>>Try getting a permit to build anything in California. And house prices are the highest in the country. (true)>>

Yes, it takes a while to get permits. But remodeling and new commercial/residential projects are going up all the time. Contractors are in seventh heaven with the lockdown, they can't keep up with business! And no, it's not all interior stuff, either, LOL.

Yes, house prices are high - *on the coast*. Live in Bakersfield, California City, Reedley, Bridgeport, et. al., and you're below the $350K mark. San Diego County is now the least affordable housing market in the country. Dethroned SF just last year, in fact. But that's not remarkable that house prices are high in SF; it simply doesn't geographically have any space. You can walk across SF in a few hours; it's only 7x7 miles. I live 20 minutes from SF and 7 miles doesn't even get me out of my town!

Having grown up on the south side of Chicago, urban crime is what it is. Doesn't get me all excited, never did. In a country where multiple-victim shootings happen - in 2021 there were *703 mass shootings in the US* - most urban crime is the smash-and-grab kind. 

Do bad things happen to good people in CA? Yes - just like Breonna Taylor and George Floyd, bad things can happen anywhere, anytime. Cities are by definition crowded and congested; I don't think there's any major city in the US where you could point and say someone would be 100% safe from anything bad happening to them.


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

Lethe200 said:


> Try Illinois. Only the state of Minnesota is 100% funded on government pensions.



Is that supposed to be a rebuttal?  California's pension liabilities are horrible, about a trillion dollars.  California ranks 42nd of 50 states, which is especially bad given the state's economic and natural resources.  Saying "yeah, but Illinois is worse" isn't much of an answer.  

https://www.benefitspro.com/2021/09...orst-public-pensions/?slreturn=20220216164256



​


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## Don M. (Mar 16, 2022)

One of my cousins and family lived in Berkley CA. for most of his working career.  When they retired, several years ago, they moved to Colorado, into a nice suburb near Denver.  They live quite nicely in Colorado, on their retirement funds/benefits....compared to what they would be doing had they stayed in CA.


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

Lethe200 said:


> >>Try getting a permit to build anything in California. And house prices are the highest in the country. (true)>>
> 
> Yes, it takes a while to get permits. But remodeling and new commercial/residential projects are going up all the time. Contractors are in seventh heaven with the lockdown, they can't keep up with business! And no, it's not all interior stuff, either, LOL.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry urban crime doesn't get you all excited.  703 people died in mass shootings in the US last year. That's out of about 25,000 homicides.  I'll respectfully disengage as we don't agree on any of these subjects.  

I post on a lot of non-political subjects and hope to see you in those forums.


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## Knight (Mar 16, 2022)

Some more input on the San Francisco ban. 

In 2016, then-Supervisor Scott Wiener passed an ordinance making San Francisco the first city to ban travel to states with repressive anti-LGBT laws or contract with businesses headquartered there. 

I think this is where the wheels run off. 

It will come as little surprise to anyone familiar with the M.O. of San Francisco government that we have no tests nor audits nor analysis nor methodology to determine if our travel bans or boycotts are making any difference for the good.


I think most would agree the intent was good. No research that "might" have uncovered businesses that were openly against the LGBT & later abortion issues & target those might have gained the traction the original idea sought. Why undoing the ordinance that grew in scope & isn't making the impact other than exposing why poor thought was the outcome isn't repealed doesn't make sense to me.


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## Lethe200 (Mar 16, 2022)

>>California's pension liabilities are horrible,>>

Yes, that's why with a budget surplus these past two years and another even bigger surplus coming up this year, CA has made additional pension fund payments. Also, just FYI: pension healthcare benefits (a large part of the pension deficit) are generally not guaranteed by any state, according to multiple state SCOTUS decisions.

Also, a lot of people don't understand how the CalPERS pension fund actually works. Unlike most states, joining the pension fund is NOT mandatory for any city or county government agencies. Many join, but many do not and are self-insured. 

So for instance, my spouse has a CalPERS pension. But the terms and benefits of his pension are entirely separate and different from another government agency, even in the same city or county. *Each agency *negotiates with its unions what their contract is - so think of one pension fund covering 5000 different people, each one having a separate agreement with CalPERS on how much they contribute, and what they will receive in benefits!

The CA SCOTUS has already ruled in a narrow legal decision that CalPERS can legally reduce pensions (or even eliminate them, but that's rather drastic) in cases of member agency declining contributions. CalPERS total assets are $469B as of June 2021.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 16, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> No.     Did you snooze through your US History class?   I had two great teachers, but I can also imagine a few who would have tempted me to snooze.


Ah, an insult to fan the flames of the flamebait.

How lovely.

Bye now.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 16, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I'm sorry urban crime doesn't get you all excited.  703 people died in mass shootings in the US last year. That's out of about 25,000 homicides.  I'll respectfully disengage as we don't agree on any of these subjects.
> 
> I post on a lot of non-political subjects and hope to see you in those forums.


please note, that we do have a survivor of a mass shooting on the forum.  Please be respectful about mentioning this issue and avoid it if you can.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 16, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> Oh, let me explain my "incident" with the Hell's Angels more clearly.  Because it was actually very weird and ended up being fun.
> 
> So, I am at this rest stop, a gang of those bikers come in...maybe 20 or 30.
> 
> ...


what, you guys never played "grapefruit football" with a Hell's Angel?


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

Y'all have a nice evening.


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 16, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> please note, that we do have a survivor of a mass shooting on the forum.  Please be respectful about mentioning this issue and avoid it if you can.


I didn't bring it up.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 16, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I didn't bring it up.


not blaming anyone.  Just giving folks a heads up.  How would you have known?  No possible way you would have.  I just found out myself.


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## Lethe200 (Mar 16, 2022)

Jimbob,
Well darn, I was having a lot of fun answering your posts! I always think it's interesting how people view CA. No, it certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea. But isn't that what makes the world a more interesting place? As my mother liked to say, nothing wrong with going to visit somewhere, even if you wouldn't want to live there!

Let's face it, if you were to ask someone from another state how they envision CA, you'd probably hear "San Francisco....Los Angeles....Disneyland....ummm, Hollywood....?" SF's name and public persona is so ubiquitous, many don't realize to us living here, SF is like that nutty Uncle Elmer whom the five year olds love, but every once in a while tells those cringe-inducing stories at the dinner table.

We call it The City, but truth is, the majority of SFBA and NorCA never, or at most seldom, ever go there (Okay, they do have the Warriors and the Giants, so if you wanna go see pro basketball & baseball, you've got to get on that BART train and go thru the Tube). NorCA foodies can happily applaud our Michelin-starred restaurants, even as we take for granted that half of them aren't anywhere within sight of SF proper!

Don't forget that the majority of counties in CA actually are "red" counties. It's simply that 90% of people in the state live in a major metropolitan area - CA is slightly above average here, the US average is 80% in cities - and then in coastal CA, it shifts to "blue". Which is not unique; it's happening in other states as well: Arizona, Texas, the Carolinas, et. al.

Mass shootings don't necessarily happen in big cities - in fact the majority of them do not. I think we are both confusing mass shootings stats with urban crime stats, and the two are very different. I used mass shooting stats as an example that crime everywhere, even in suburban towns and small cities, happens these days. Sad and tragic, but true.

Urban crime is usually burglary and theft, murder, drug dealing, etc. Now, you also see these everywhere, even in "nice" places, but in a crowded city you'll see them a lot more. It's simply a fact, I feel safer in the SFBA than I ever did in Chicago, unless I was walking around the Gold Coast or Miracle Mile. 

And to be honest, as a PoC with a lot of LGBT pals, there are a lot of places now where I would very much NOT feel overly comfortable. Again sad, but true.


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 17, 2022)

Hey Lethe,  

You're a smart person and I enjoyed your posts.  The realities on the ground are always different from the way outsiders like me see them.  I just get flagged a lot for being too political, so thought I would break off before that happened.    

I didn't know that you are a person of color, but appreciate that perspective as well.  

Take care


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## Old&InTheWay (Mar 17, 2022)

The country has gone crazy,,,and SF is way in front of the pack. It is SO ironic that Berekely USED to be the zenith of free speech...now they are the zenith of censorship. The extreme liberals are very draconian and unable to even allow another opinion. Just ask who is banning the books now. 40 years ago it was the religious right....now it is woke left wing school boards....sorry, sad and true.


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## StarSong (Mar 17, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> No problem, I think over 90% of Americans are boycotting San Fransico, lest they step in the poop!  75% are boycotting California in general.


Not sure where you're getting your information.

According to search engines, the state of CA is the #1 tourist destination state in the US for both domestic and international travelers.
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-popular-us-states-for-tourism-2014-10?op=1
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-most-visited-states-in-the-us.html


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## StarSong (Mar 17, 2022)

Old&InTheWay said:


> The country has gone crazy,,,and SF is way in front of the pack. It is SO ironic that Berekely USED to be the zenith of free speech...now they are the zenith of censorship. The extreme liberals are very draconian and unable to even allow another opinion. Just ask who is banning the books now. 40 years ago it was the religious right....now it is woke left wing school boards....sorry, sad and true.


The only Berkeley book banning info I can find on the web (short search, I admit) is in Berkeley County, South Carolina.  Not Berkeley California.  If you have information to the contrary, please cite your source.


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## Nathan (Mar 17, 2022)

StarSong said:


> As for California haters, first take the plank out of your own eye so you can see clearly enough to remove the speck from someone else's. There isn't a state in the union nor a country on the planet without serious flaws. We're all just doing the best we can.


My take is that the haters are envious of the great weather and personal freedom to be yourself, which is the very essence of living here.
Someone said-  _"California was called the "land of the fruits and nuts"..._yes, and it is well known which Eastern states those fruits & nuts relocated from.


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## Manatee (Mar 17, 2022)

Lara said:


> This thread reminds me of this...
> California has their warning labels stuck on everything from foods to a fish statue I bought at Homegoods once that said the chemicals used to make the statue could cause cancer. Of course I'd touched it...only way to read the label underneath...too late
> 
> View attachment 213293


California needs a warning label on the roads at the state line.


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## Remy (Mar 17, 2022)

I listen to KGO Newstalk out of SF a lot. Haven't heard this mentioned. They are liberal leaning.

San Francisco was a beautiful city. I remember walking from downtown to the piers by myself in 1990. No one bothered me. I wouldn't do that there today. At any age.

BTW I'm a native Californian and people can move where they want. I wish more would leave. Maybe it would help the property prices.


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## Jackie23 (Mar 17, 2022)

I love California, I've spent many vacations out there, beautiful scenery, wonderful weather.
California has some of the best environmental laws in the country, they protect their coastline and the marine life.
I can understand why it is the number one tourist destination in the US.


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## JimBob1952 (Mar 17, 2022)

Nathan said:


> My take is that the haters are envious of the great weather and personal freedom to be yourself, which is the very essence of living here.
> Someone said-  _"California was called the "land of the fruits and nuts"..._yes, and it is well known which Eastern states those fruits & nuts relocated from.



Hmm....wildfires, drought, earthquakes, rampant crime, homelessness, exorbitant prices for housing and fuel, highest taxes in the country, crappy public school system, intrusive state and local government, one-party rule...there is so much to be jealous about!


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## Nathan (Mar 17, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Hmm....wildfires, drought, earthquakes, rampant crime, homelessness, exorbitant prices for housing and fuel, highest taxes in the country, crappy public school system, intrusive state and local government, one-party rule...there is so much to be jealous about!


Don't be jealous, just because you swallow the _hate California_ news feed, rest assured, someone out there has focused on the _dirty linen_ in your area as well.


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## Nathan (Mar 17, 2022)

Manatee said:


> California needs a warning label on the roads at the state line.


I agree, should read: "no simpletons beyond this point".


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## oldpop (Mar 17, 2022)

The freedom we have enjoyed in the U.S.A. is slowly or maybe quickly slipping away.  I hope the young people are paying attention. Hmmm, I think I will go watch Gilligan's Island on the TV.


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## Nathan (Mar 17, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> https://www.benefitspro.com/2021/09...orst-public-pensions/?slreturn=20220216164256


Not a news source, just a commercial site to gather sign-ups to sell services for benefits brokers.


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## Lethe200 (Mar 17, 2022)

Just because someone wouldn't want to live in a specific state, doesn't mean s/he hates the people IN that state. There's a lovely woman on one of the other forums I visit, who posts the good and bad about living in Chicago IL. 

Being from Chicago, I absolutely refuse to consider moving back - jeez, that weather is killer! - but *because *I know Chicago, I can completely understand why she lives there. Not just family and friends, but her hobbies and preferred activities - she and her spouse enjoy a good life together. 

BTW, she loves temperate weather, and her second home was a condo in HI. Eventually due to health reasons they needed to simplify their life, and when it came to a choice of where to live full-time, they both wanted to stay in the Midwest.

Now, if I didn't know Chicago well, I might think she was nuts - picking Chicago over HAWAII?? But it works for them and they're happy....and isn't that what everyone hopes for?


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## StarSong (Mar 18, 2022)

Your point is well made @Lethe200.  

My mother (may her sweet soul now be in a place of joy and peace) was a wise woman.  She told her children that every place on the planet has its own charms, delicious foods, and good, kind people. When traveling or meeting people from other places, she advised us to be gracious and embrace the best they have to offer.  

While not as well traveled as many on this forum, I've had my share of trips in the US and abroad. Every place I've visited had much to enjoy and little for me to complain about. I focused on the positive then and now. 

In life, people are about as happy as they make their minds up to be. Some seek out the sweetest of life's fruits to fuel their good cheer, others search for and suck on the sourest lemons they can find. That's as true of travel and satisfaction with where one lives as it is with everything else. 

My advice: if you don't like California (or any other place on the planet), please don't feel compelled to visit. We'll try to tough it out without you.


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## Timewise 60+ (Mar 18, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Hmm....wildfires, drought, earthquakes, rampant crime, homelessness, exorbitant prices for housing and fuel, highest taxes in the country, crappy public school system, intrusive state and local government, one-party rule...there is so much to be jealous about!


JimBob....BINGO!  You win the prize...you 'Get It'!


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## Nathan (Mar 18, 2022)

StarSong said:


> My advice: if you don't like California (or any other place on the planet), please don't feel compelled to visit. We'll try to tough it out without you.


Exactly!


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## Timewise 60+ (Mar 19, 2022)

Nathan said:


> Exactly!


Yep, we used to be frequent visitors...but have now avoided California for over 25 years as have all our family members...Have a great day!


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## StarSong (Mar 19, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Yep, we used to be frequent visitors...but have now avoided California for over 25 years as have all our family members...Have a great day!


Glad you found places that suit you better.


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## Timewise 60+ (Mar 19, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Glad you found places that suit you better.


Yep...everywhere!


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## David777 (Mar 19, 2022)

SF politics are and have been for decades abysmal. Current homelessness, open drug use, and property crime are epidemic. That noted, there are reasons The City is still regardless one of the top destinations for world and USA tourists.

One of my favorite occasional day activities is driving the 55 miles north to the north shore of San Francisco where I park for free at the relatively safe from smash and grab activity, open grassy lawns of Marina Green lots and then walk the fascinating hilly streets, especially the waterfront eastward.  The north shore streets along a Pacific bay with the towering Golden Gate bridge rising to the west, full of ships, boat, sailboats, history at every turn, are full young people walking, jogging, bicycling, skateboarding, pushing baby strollers.  The City is a unique old world like city, marine cool often foggy all times of year,  with narrow streets, multistory buildings throughout.  A world wide ethnic mix, a place unlike any other cities in my native California.


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## StarSong (Mar 19, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Yep...everywhere!


We get it.  You hate California.  {{shrug}}


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## Nathan (Mar 19, 2022)

senior chef said:


> San Francisco is run by a bunch of lunatics.
> It is one thing to oppose anti-abortion laws, and another thing entirely to ban business with, and travel to, 1/2 of America.
> Can you imagine Texas being the least concerned about what San Francisco does ?





JimBob1952 said:


> Since there were only 11 states in the confederacy, the answer would be no.  I don't recall Wisconsin being a big slave state.
> 
> San Francisco is an insane asylum.  As sane people move out, it becomes crazier and crazier.





Lara said:


> When I lived there in the 80's, California was called the "land of the fruits and nuts". I can't imagine what it would be called now.





JonSR77 said:


> Lara:  That would be the "land of the ORGANIC fruits and nuts."





JimBob1952 said:


> I'm not a "California hater," just an objective observer.  California has the highest taxes in the country and the highest number of illegal immigrants.  It ranks fourth in the net number of people (legal residents) moving out of the state.  San Francisco and Los Angeles have severe homelessness problems, exacerbated by wrongheaded policies at the state and local level.  All major cities in the state are experiencing double-digit increases in major crime.  Housing prices are the highest in the country, mostly due to lack of supply, which is due to wrongheaded policies. So are gas prices (taxes again).  The proposed rail transit project is a fiasco, a global joke.   The unemployment rate is more than 50 percent higher than the national average.
> 
> Maybe one-party politics, unrestrained progressivism and undiluted political correctness isn't the way to go?





Old&InTheWay said:


> The country has gone crazy,,,and SF is way in front of the pack. It is SO ironic that Berekely USED to be the zenith of free speech...now they are the zenith of censorship. The extreme liberals are very draconian and unable to even allow another opinion. Just ask who is banning the books now. 40 years ago it was the religious right....now it is woke left wing school boards....sorry, sad and true.



@senior chef , @JimBob1952, @Lara, @JonSR77, @Old&InTheWay,  Sorry if I missed anybody, just wanted to thank you for sharing your Internet bullying comments so that we all know who you really are.
You are invited to post some of the “hightlights” of your state or region.  Perhaps you’re particularly proud of your home state’s efforts in passing voter suppression laws, or anti-LBGTQ legislation.  Or is your state or locale noted for rewriting history, to downplay the accomplishments of non-whites, as well as public figures who happen to be on the other side of the political isle.
Some states efforts at enforcing one religion as 'the' official way(contrary to the U.S.Constitution) are resembling the Taliban and Iranian Islamic Republic.
Or, perhaps the hail-storms-tornados-flooding-hurricanes and such are just so much more appealing than California’s drought-wildfires-earthquakes etc. 

C’mon, share what you got!


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## Don M. (Mar 19, 2022)

Nathan said:


> C’mon, share what you got!


I traveled around the country quite a bit, over the years, and I'm of the opinion that there is NO perfect City or State....they ALL have their pluses and minuses.  San Francisco is a beautiful place to visit...I enjoyed the city sites, and the surrounding areas....Muir Woods, a few miles North...is one of the places I remember the most.  
However, with the ridiculous cost of living in/around SF, I would not want to live there unless I had an annual income well up into the 6 figures.


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## Nathan (Mar 19, 2022)

Don M. said:


> I traveled around the country quite a bit, over the years, and I'm of the opinion that there is NO perfect City or State....they ALL have their pluses and minuses.  San Francisco is a beautiful place to visit...I enjoyed the city sites, and the surrounding areas....Muir Woods, a few miles North...is one of the places I remember the most.
> However, with the ridiculous cost of living in/around SF, I would not want to live there unless I had an annual income well up into the 6 figures.


Real estate is pricey there, for sure.  Property is cheaper in East Texas but not as picturesque or near high paying jobs.


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## StarSong (Mar 19, 2022)

Thank you, @Nathan, for saying what needed to be said. 

By the way, "the land of fruits and nuts" is now and was intended to be a gay slur.  I always saw it as a badge of honor - people ostracized by their families, friends, churches and home states for simply being who they were, have long been welcome in California.


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## Grampa Don (Mar 19, 2022)

I could never figure out why some people need to bad mouth another state.  What's the point?  You live where you want, and we live where we want.  Why would you care about our problems?  Do you just enjoy pissing people off?  Are things perfect where you live?  

By the way, my California income tax is zero dollars.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 19, 2022)

Nathan said:


> @senior chef , @JimBob1952, @Lara, @JonSR77, @Old&InTheWay,  Sorry if I missed anybody, just wanted to thank you for sharing your Internet bullying comments so that we all know who you really are.
> You are invited to post some of the “hightlights” of your state or region.  Perhaps you’re particularly proud of your home state’s efforts in passing voter suppression laws, or anti-LBGTQ legislation.  Or is your state or locale noted for rewriting history, to downplay the accomplishments of non-whites, as well as public figures who happen to be on the other side of the political isle.
> Some states efforts at enforcing one religion as 'the' official way(contrary to the U.S.Constitution) are resembling the Taliban and Iranian Islamic Republic.
> Or, perhaps the hail-storms-tornados-flooding-hurricanes and such are just so much more appealing than California’s drought-wildfires-earthquakes etc.
> ...


Here's a bit from the other side.

My wife and I went to see "Masterclass" at the Papermill Playhouse. The Papermill Playhouse was constructed on the site of an actual Colonial papermill. I believe it dates back to around 1750. At various times, it has been a very strong regional theater. For many years, plays would be tested there, before going to Broadway (we live in NJ, just 10 miles or so from NYC).

Many, many famous actors have performed there over the years.

But, it has also run into a lot of financial problems now and then.

Anyway, we are there to see the play. I see someone oddly familiar just a couple of rows in front of us. It is former NJ Governor Tom Kean! And then, I see another person oddly familiar...it was former NJ Governor Brendan Byrne. Gov. Kean is a Republican. Gov. Byrne is a Democrat.

And they were not just there in some kind of perfunctory way, they clearly were friends, enjoying each other's company.

To me, that is the kind of atmosphere we need in politics, in order to keep our country moving in the correct direction. 

I think we have to find a way to see each other as people and not as rivals.


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## Grampa Don (Mar 19, 2022)

It's hard to have this conversation without getting political.  Everything lately seems political.  It would be nice if we could just stop demonizing each other and acting like kids on a playground.  Unfortunately, I don't see any sign of this happening any time soon.  Too many people enjoy stoking the fire.


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## Timewise 60+ (Mar 19, 2022)

StarSong said:


> We get it.  You hate California.  {{shrug}}



No, apparently you do not "get it"!  It is not California; it is what the people who live in California have done to that beautiful state...!  Most all of that is mentioned by others in posts in this thread.  Read through them and maybe you will begin to have a clue...


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## Grampa Don (Mar 19, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> No, apparently you do not "get it"!  It is not California; it is what the people who live in California have done to that beautiful state...!  Most all of that is mentioned by others in posts in this thread.  Read through them and maybe you will begin to have a clue...


I guess I'm dense.  I've lived here 82 years and I still think it's a great place to live.  Sure, the population has boomed.  There are a number of reasons for that including weather and jobs.  But, we aren't alone in that respect.  I don't find our state laws overly restrictive.  Our gas is more expensive, but it's modified to reduce air pollution.  I can remember going downtown L.A. as a kid and having my eyes burn.  They haven't burned for many years.

Proposition 65 is flawed.  It was well meaning but poorly implemented.  Many of our propositions shouldn't have happened.  That comes from direct democracy and an electorate that is easily manipulated by special interests.  We're no different than people everywhere in that respect.

We're more liberal than some states.  Maybe we're more laid back due to the variety of our population and the fact that many of us came here to get away from some place else that was more restrictive.  But, I don't consider that as necessarily evil, and I voted for Reagan, Nixon, and Barry Goldwater.

So, I'm afraid I don't get your point.  Maybe some of the things you have read or heard about us are a bit exaggerated.


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## Lara (Mar 19, 2022)

I'm sorry if I offended anyone by joking about "the land of the fruits and the nuts" but I lived in San Diego, California for 12 years when I first heard that expression and no one took it as a gay slur, or meanness, or personally as far as I know. It was a joke.

I was in San Diego in the late 70's and early 80's. I was a Californian myself and took no offense when I heard it. I guess I wasn't as quick to judge. I took it at face value. It was just a funny expression to me. Nothing deep.

Southern Californians, as I saw it, took it as meaning we were ALL free-spirited, doing our own thing, without a care for those in judgement. etc. "Live and let live", "Peace-Love-Dove". The expression I remember well was suppose to be light and funny. No one took it personally nor stereotyped any one group. It's a big state...the north is more political these days? Sacramento?

At any rate, I'm sorry you took it personally or tagged it onto the gay community. That's really sad. That thought never even entered my mind...and for that I'm grateful.

@Nathan @StarSong


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## Nathan (Mar 20, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> No, apparently you do not "get it"!  It is not California; it is what the people who live in California have done to that beautiful state...!  Most all of that is mentioned by others in posts in this thread.  Read through them and maybe you will begin to have a clue...


What you don't "get" is that your negative view is simply that: *your view.  *I'm not going to ask 'what' you think has been done to California, because I'm not interested in more outsider negativity. The good people of California did reject an insidious plot presented in a ballot proposition in the last election to split the state into 3 pieces(divide & conquer). That would have given the grifters an opportunity to pillage the state's resources, and flip the state into a feudal domain.     California is strong, successful and bountiful thanks to it's hard working citizens and _no-thanks_ to the outsiders that seek to tarnish her image.

Now, on to something more interesting....would you care to share some of the attributes of the state you reside in?   Perhaps we can_ google-it_ and cherry pick some negative aspects.


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## Timewise 60+ (Mar 20, 2022)

Nathan said:


> What you don't "get" is that your negative view is simply that: *your view.  *I'm not going to ask 'what' you think has been done to California, because I'm not interested in more outsider negativity. The good people of California did reject an insidious plot presented in a ballot proposition in the last election to split the state into 3 pieces(divide & conquer). That would have given the grifters an opportunity to pillage the state's resources, and flip the state into a feudal domain.     California is strong, successful and bountiful thanks to it's hard working citizens and _no-thanks_ to the outsiders that seek to tarnish her image.
> 
> Now, on to something more interesting....would you care to share some of the attributes of the state you reside in?   Perhaps we can_ google-it_ and cherry pick some negative aspects.



My view is my view!  That is what we all offer on this website!  You too have your view!  I'm not going to ask what you think, and I sure am not going to participate in any game playing you want to cook up...have a nice day!  See I am smart like you....


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## Nathan (Mar 20, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> My view is my view!  That is what we all offer on this website!  You too have your view!  I'm not going to ask what you think, and I sure am not going to participate in any game playing you want to cook up...have a nice day!  See I am smart like you....


My point exactly, thanks for understanding.   Further, I hope I don't have to remind you that if you feel entitled to ridicule other people's home states, then expect the same coming your way.


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## StarSong (Mar 20, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> My view is my view!  That is what we all offer on this website!  You too have your view!  I not going to ask what you think, and I sure am not going to participate in any game playing you want to cook up...have a nice day!


According to your posts you live in Missouri.  It's not my style to take potshots or generalize about where people live, but be assured MO has plenty of fodder for anyone who might be so inclined.   It's that whole glass houses and stones thing.


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## Lethe200 (Mar 21, 2022)

Lara said:


> I'm sorry if I offended anyone by joking about "the land of the fruits and the nuts" but I lived in San Diego, California for 12 years when I first heard that expression and no one took it as a gay slur, or meanness, or personally as far as I know. It was a joke.
> 
> ....At any rate, I'm sorry you took it personally or tagged it onto the gay community. That's really sad. That thought never even entered my mind...and for that I'm grateful.
> 
> @Nathan @StarSong



As sociologists point out, many expressions/idioms end up changing over time. "Gay" is certainly an example of that - it has changed just in my lifetime, and very recently, in historical terms. It's only been a few years that "snowflake" has become a derogatory term; it definitely wasn't when any of us were growing up!

Unfortunately, even though Lara didn't mean it as a put-down, it has become one to many of my LGBTX friends, because they do experience people stereotyping them as 'weird' - which they are not. They are bankers, doctors, chefs, brokers, teachers, et. al. 

So just as I am sensitive to comments made about PoC, I have to acknowledge that my LGBTX friends are sensitive about also being stigmatized as "something different." 

I've been a member of the SF for years and never found any members to be deliberately mean or insulting - EVER. Thank you, Lara, your explanation is appreciated and understood. You are quite correct that term has been used for a long time. But I think we need to acknowledge times have changed, and we need to change with them - if for no other reason, than to be courteous and kind to one another.


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## StarSong (Mar 21, 2022)

Lethe200 said:


> As sociologists point out, many expressions/idioms end up changing over time. "Gay" is certainly an example of that - it has changed just in my lifetime, and very recently, in historical terms. It's only been a few years that "snowflake" has become a derogatory term; it definitely wasn't when any of us were growing up!
> 
> Unfortunately, even though Lara didn't mean it as a put-down, it has become one to many of my LGBTX friends, because they do experience people stereotyping them as 'weird' - which they are not. They are bankers, doctors, chefs, brokers, teachers, et. al.
> 
> ...


Beautifully said.  And while I can't agree that I've never found ANY members to be deliberately mean or insulting, I certainly agree that @Lara has never been anything but kind and gentle.  

p.s. From at least 1970 through the 90s, the terms "fruit" and "fruity" were insulting descriptions of gays.


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## ElCastor (Mar 21, 2022)

I lived and worked in San Francisco for many years, but I have come to despise it. San Francisco has some of the most expensive real estate in the country combined with an incredibly unsafe environment. There are large parts of the city that I simply would not set foot in anymore, and it's getting worse. From the front page of today's (March 21) Wall Street Journal:  "Thefts and Burglaries Plague San Francisco" ... "Among the 25 largest U.S. cities, San Francisco has had the highest property-crime rate in four of the most recent six years for which data is available ...". To make things even worse, assaults on members of the city's Asian community, particularly women, have become a growing problem.


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## ohioboy (Mar 22, 2022)

Lethe200 said:
			
		

> San Francisco - which FYI is the smallest geographical city and county in the STATE of California - passed these various restrictions on city government funded travel and expenses. San Francisco has a city budget for 2021-22 of $12.6 billion (nope, not a misprint).



That is a joint budget, right? As the City and County are Co- extensive like the city of Philadelphia and Philadelphia County.


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## StarSong (Mar 23, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> That is a joint budget, right? As the City and County are Co- extensive like the city of Philadelphia and Philadelphia County.


Did a little research on this just now.  From what I can gather, San Francisco is a rarity in that the City and County of SF are one and the same.  No city areas extend beyond the county and no county areas extend beyond the city.  In fact, its official name is The City and County of San Francisco.   Budget seems to also be one and the same.  
https://sfgov.org/dosw/sites/default/files/CCSF Departments Budget Update102319v2.pdf

I learned something already today and it's not even 8 AM.  
Gotta love Senior Forums!


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## Remy (Mar 23, 2022)

I'd certainly at least look into leaving California if I could. It's a state. It has a long and beautiful coastline that I haven't seen in years. It also has people of with a variety of views. Very conservative and very liberal. A lot of the woke types are nothing but people who think they are cool because of what they say. Virtue signaling to the max and it doesn't mean anything. They can't think beyond the words they say.


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## StarSong (Mar 23, 2022)

Remy said:


> I'd certainly at least look into leaving California if I could. It's a state. It has a long and beautiful coastline that I haven't seen in years. It also has people of with a variety of views. Very conservative and very liberal. A lot of the woke types are nothing but people who think they are cool because of what they say. *Virtue signaling to the max and it doesn't mean anything. They can't think beyond the words they say.*


This isn't limited to California or liberal states.  Or even the US.


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## Remy (Mar 23, 2022)

StarSong said:


> This isn't limited to California or liberal states.  Or even the US.


You are absolutely right. 

Oh, I hadn't realized you are in California. I'm in the north of the state.


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## Brookswood (Oct 27, 2022)

Good news. Apparently, San Francisco may stop boycotting so many of the other states in the USA.   According to an article in the WSJ....


> San Francisco is considering softening a ban on publicly funded contracts and travel in 30 states that don’t share its liberal values on issues such as abortion and transgender rights, as officials question whether the prohibition is having any effect beyond likely costing the city tens of millions of dollars.





> “Has it worked? Has it actually gotten any state legislature to change its positions?” Ms. Chu asked rhetorically. “Ultimately, the whole purpose of this is to drive change.”





> The travel portion of the ban has also produced some unintended consequences, she said, such as prohibiting youth sports participants funded through city grants from traveling to banned states to compete and restricting funds for programs that might allow high-school students to visit historically Black colleges.


Apparently, some in the San Francisco halls of power are actually looking at the consequences of their actions, rather than at the symbolism that so greatly impresses their  buddies.

Will wonders ever cease?


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## Been There (Oct 27, 2022)

I’m pretty much neutral about California. I have been there many times and actually lived on base in San Diego for two and a half years. I enjoyed my time there and although I haven’t be to San Francisco in probably 15 years, it was one of my favorite cities. I liked the area up on top of Nob Hill. Great hotels and not far from the Wharf. I also liked walking down by the Embarcadero Center.

You people out in California may not be aware that you do get a lot of bad press from the news networks here in the east. They really lay it on sometimes that makes a person think California is a horrible state. We don’t hear much good about it. I have a hard time believing that it’s the state that I always enjoyed visiting. I guess I need to make a trip back out and check it out for myself. I would like to go back to Yellowstone.


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## Alligatorob (Oct 27, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> It seems that San Francisco prohibits the city government from doing business with companies whose US headquarters are in state that do things the Frisco disapproves of. A total of 28 states are on the list.
> 
> I find this attitude to be extremely hypocritical considering that SF gets its water supply by damming Yosemtie National Park. As far as I know SF is the only city that ever dammed a USA national park to get its water.


Hypocrisy abounds, and not just in California, a lot of us are guilty.

I would think a lot of these laws might not stand a constitutional test.  As I understand it the Commerce Clause gives Congress pretty much the exclusive right to regulate trade between states.  Don't know if they have been so tested.

I like visiting San Francisco, and will continue to, their eccentricities are part of the attraction.  No matter how foolish I think some of them are.


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## Brookswood (Oct 27, 2022)

I was born in California and my connections there keep me up to date. The state has a lot going for it.  I can think of a lot of worse places to live. 

It's what I consider their rather sanctimonious over reaching that I find amusing.


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## ohioboy (Oct 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I would think a lot of these laws might not stand a constitutional test.  As I understand it the Commerce Clause gives Congress pretty much the exclusive right to regulate trade between states.  Don't know if they have been so tested.


Since the Interstate Commerce Commission is operative, if there have been challenges to the Constitutionality of its Enactment, they have failed. Have certain provisions been ruled upon and stricken, yes, such as:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez


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## ElCastor (Oct 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I like visiting San Francisco, and will continue to, their eccentricities are part of the attraction.  No matter how foolish I think some of them are.


I live a few miles from San Francisco and am reluctant to visit. San Francisco has experienced as many as 3000 car break-ins in a month. Areas frequented by tourists are the worst. Never leave a package or bag visible in your parked car, or it’s likely to be smash and grab.
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisc...uto-burglary-car-break-in-its-out-of-control/


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## Beezer (Oct 27, 2022)

SF is setting the correct tone...mess with women's rights and we'll do business elsewhere. What's not to like about this stance?


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## Lewkat (Oct 27, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> It seems that San Francisco prohibits the city government from doing business with companies whose US headquarters are in state that do things the Frisco disapproves of.  A total of 28 states are on the list.
> 
> I find this attitude to be extremely hypocritical considering that SF gets its water supply by damming Yosemtie National Park.  As far as I know SF is the only city that ever dammed a USA national park to get its water.


I wonder why NJ missed the cut on this one?


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