# Vaccines and Vaccinations



## Mike (Jul 22, 2022)

When I was a child, most here probably have the same memories,
about getting vaccinated.

I remember they put the vaccine on the skin of my arm, then scratched
it with a needle, to get it into the arm, a bit silly we might think, to get
it into us, but it seemed to work, each different vaccine only needed to
be applied once, now I doubt that it was the method of applying it that
made it stronger, but I wonder why these modern drugs against Covid
need to be repeated at regular intervals, are they not strong enough,
are they really Vaccines?

We had several different ones, but still only once, maybe the people at
the Pharmaceutical companies thought that the older methods were
no good in modern times, it made me wonder.

What do you think, am I just raving, or do I have a point?

Mike.


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## chic (Jul 22, 2022)

Mike said:


> When I was a child, most here probably have the same memories,
> about getting vaccinated.
> 
> I remember they put the vaccine on the skin of my arm, then scratched
> ...


You're saying what a lot of people have realized. The covid "shot" is not a vaccine in the traditional sense of the word.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 22, 2022)

Vaccines take years to develop to get it right. Once they have a formula that seems to work the subjects are followed for a few years to see how well they work and how side effects are.

The Covid vaccine was rushed.  Once they had something that seemed to work they they started using it. The final stage where they take years to follow up subjects didn't happen, the public is the final stage. 

The Covid vaccine only last about 4 months. 

Which is more profitable?  One shot per person or 4+ shots per year?


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## Mike (Jul 22, 2022)

Thank you for your replies.

So these injections are wrongly named then, they are not
a vaccine, but they are a delay, with a little immunity boost
thrown in for good measure.

Maybe they call it a vaccine because people would think it
more powerful than any other kind of chemical remedy.

Mike.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 22, 2022)

Mike said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> So these injections are wrongly named then, they are not
> a vaccine, but they are a delay, with a little immunity boost
> ...


Mike, I don't think they're wrongly named, but it's clear that they aren't called immunizations for good reason. But what they're called is beside the point; the problem is that the covid virus is not acting like any other virus. It "figured out" how to evade the covid vaccine...the mRNA one, anyway. That's why medical scientists want to try the Novavax....though there's a huge debate now about whether or not a non-mRNA vaccine will cause the same serious problems as "long-covid".


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## Alligatorob (Jul 23, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> Vaccines take years to develop to get it right. Once they have a formula that seems to work the subjects are followed for a few years to see how well they work and how side effects are.
> 
> The Covid vaccine was rushed. Once they had something that seemed to work they they started using it. The final stage where they take years to follow up subjects didn't happen, the public is the final stage.
> 
> The Covid vaccine only last about 4 months.


Good points @Becky1951 and I mostly agree with you.

It is true that vaccines normally take  years to develop, however in this case a judgement was made that the risks of doing it quickly outweighed the risks of Covid.  We can argue how right or wrong that was, but it is what happened.  I remember back when President Trump strongly supported funding and fast tracking for the RNA vaccine I was skeptical, but I believe I was proven wrong.  I do think it has been worth it, even if it has not worked as well as promised.

You are also right that years of follow up are needed to really understand the impacts, I am hoping we can take advantage of the hundreds of millions who have now been vaccinated to do that.  I think we are.  Not the way it would normally be done, but now that its happened hopefully we can objectively look at lessons learned.


Becky1951 said:


> Which is more profitable? One shot per person or 4+ shots per year?


Probably more profit in more injections.  I know big Pharma needs regulation, but without profit from drugs they will not be developing new ones.


Mike said:


> So these injections are wrongly named then, they are not
> a vaccine


I looked up a definition for vaccine, Google says:

_a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease._

I don't know enough about it to be sure if it fits that definition or not.  But it is just semantics, does it matter what we call it?  Geraldo Rivera wanted to call it "The Trump" to honor Trump's support for its development.  That would have been fine with me, what matters is how it works and if people use it.

Just a non-political disclosure I do support getting the vaccine, I have had 4 shots.  I do not like most things about Trump, but I do believe in giving credit where credit is due.


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## Don M. (Jul 23, 2022)

I'm not a scientist, but I trust the opinions of those who are.   Covid hit with such speed and severity that there was little time for the experts to come up with a lasting cure.  We are probably lucky that they came up with a means of reducing the severity of this infection as quickly as they did.  Perhaps in 3 or 4 years they will come up with a "lasting" booster that virtually eliminates this virus....but, in the meantime, the "boosters" are probably the only way to keep the number of infections and deaths to a minimum.


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## Chet (Jul 23, 2022)

I trust the vaccines and the way they are administered. There is so much peer review that the truth must out, especially when it comes to health.


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## win231 (Jul 23, 2022)

Mike said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> So these injections are wrongly named then, they are not
> a vaccine, but they are a delay, with a little immunity boost
> ...


And it helps sell it.


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## Alligatorob (Jul 23, 2022)

win231 said:


> And it helps sell it.


There is that, most products get names that help them sell.


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## John cycling (Jul 23, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> There is that, most products get names that help them sell.


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## Right Now (Jul 23, 2022)

The vaccines we got as children were for measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough.  These strains of contagious viruses did not appear to mutate quickly like the COVID viruses of today.  
One vaccine for polio was all that was needed to eradicate the virus from spreading and eventually there was a minimal threat to the country.  You wipe out the virus and there is no need for another vaccine. The same with small pox vaccine.
Even today, health organizations recommend you get the DPT booster again for tetanus (only good for 10 years), and whooping cough booster.
You know we need an annual flu shot, and the pneumonia vaccine every 5 or so years.  It depends on how strong the virus appears to be in any given year (flu), and which combination of antibodies they recommend.  It doesn't prevent the flu, but gives your immune system a boost and a fighting chance to deny the virus entry to your system.


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## Hawk (Jul 23, 2022)

WELL WE CAN ADD  Monkey Pox vaccine now, that we will
have to start getting....since nature decided to throw another
virus in the works....wonder how long I'll be able to use my arms??????


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## Lethe200 (Jul 23, 2022)

This has been said before but I guess bears repeating:
A coronavirus bears no resemblance to cold/flu viruses, so we cannot quite equate one with the other. It is like comparing an elephant to a chameleon. They are both animals, but nobody could mistake one for the other. But the idea of annual shots is in fact, quite possible.

The coronavirus vaccine - and yes, it IS a vaccine - was developed quickly because of the use of a technology called mRNA, aka Messenger RNA. Per the CDC:
_" Researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades. Interest has grown in these vaccines because they can be developed in a laboratory using readily available materials. This means vaccines can be developed and produced in large quantities faster than with other methods for making vaccines.

mRNA vaccines have been studied before for flu, Zika, rabies, and cytomegalovirus (CMV). As soon as the necessary information about the virus that causes COVID-19 was available, scientists began designing the mRNA instructions for cells to build the unique spike protein into an mRNA vaccine.

Future mRNA vaccine technology may allow for one vaccine to provide protection against multiple diseases, thus decreasing the number of shots needed for protection against common vaccine-preventable diseases.

Beyond vaccines, cancer research has used mRNA to trigger the immune system to target specific cancer cells. "_

The original COVID vaccines were developed for the first wave of COVID, the SARS-CoV2. They also were effective with the Delta variant, which caused the second wave as (similar to many coronaviruses) the coronavirus *mutated,* proving to be a more infectious strain.

This is why with each mutation - we are now on ba.4 and ba.5 (i.e., Beta variants), with ba.5 rapidly becoming the more prevalent form of coronavirus - there was, and is, constant testing to see if the _original vaccine remains still effective against these successive mutations. _

They have found that booster shots - like your annual flu shot - help strengthen your immune system to have a better chance at fighting off a specific illness.

Viruses are amazing organisms. They are not truly alive in the strict definition of Life, yet they reproduce and *alter themselves as necessary to ensure survival.*

The COVID variants have not proven more fatal, but the coronavirus has altered its physical make-up so that it is _more infectious. _Thus, pharma companies are working on updating the _original _vaccine to better attack the _newly altered coronaviruses._

As for those who decry the mRNA technology, it should be noted that the recently approved Novavax vaccine was made with traditional technology, and has been approved this past week.

Consider how many more people would have died if we had to wait 2 years for the traditional method, which would also have been much slower to produce in quantities.

HTH!


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## Alligatorob (Jul 23, 2022)

Right Now said:


> The vaccines we got as children were for measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough. These strains of contagious viruses did not appear to mutate quickly like the COVID viruses of today.


All viruses mutate, all living or semi-living things do, they have to.  However you are correct that the rates of mutation vary.  RNA viruses like Covid mutate more quickly than DNA viruses. 

Other well known RNA viruses include the common cold, influenza, SARS, MERS, Dengue Virus, hepatitis C, hepatitis E, West Nile fever, Ebola virus disease, rabies, polio, mumps, and measles.  However even with RNA viruses mutation rates vary a lot, see this article Viruses and Evolution for a good discussion of viruses and mutations.

DNA viruses cause fewer well known human diseases, but include herpes, warts, smallpox, and monkey pox.

We are paying a lot more attention to Covid and so are aware of all identified mutations, not true of any other virus.  I suspect that may cause us to think it mutates a lot more than other viruses.  I guess its also possible that conventional vaccines are better for preventing new mutants, again making the mutations appear rarer to us, but that is just my speculation.


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## Alligatorob (Jul 23, 2022)

Lethe200 said:


> Consider how many more people would have died if we had to wait 2 years for the traditional method, which would also have been much slower to produce in quantities.


I think the good epidemiological studies being published supports this.  The vaccine reduces risk of death.


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## HoneyNut (Jul 23, 2022)

Mike said:


> I remember they put the vaccine on the skin of my arm, then scratched
> it with a needle, to get it into the arm, a bit silly we might think, to get
> it into us, but it seemed to work, each different vaccine only needed to
> be applied once, now I doubt that it was the method of applying it that
> ...


That is very interesting, I don't remember my early vaccinations and the later ones were injections.
Covid tho is not the only shot that has a series, the newer Shingles is a two shot series, the vaccine for that virus that causes cervical cancer is I think a three shot series, and I believe Hepatitis is a couple shot series.  Pneumonia also a two shot because I had to get the second shot of that this year.

I tried googling skin vaccinations and from the few sites I looked at it sounds like dermal vaccination has been around from the early 1900s and that studies in the mid 1900s had conflicting results about whether it was better or not.  Then some more studies in recent years that had better study control (sounded like to me) think it is a superior method.

Then, I found the below info from a little over a year ago, so apparently people do still try to develop skin type immunizations.  Maybe in the future we'll get that type.

_What advantage does skin vaccination offer compared with regular vaccination?_​_Roukens: ‘A huge problem is that there are currently not enough supplies to vaccinate everyone at the same time. With skin vaccination, we can vaccinate more people using the same amount of vaccine. This means people would be vaccinated sooner.’_​_Is this a new method?_​_‘No, skin vaccination isn’t new. We have been using this method for some time now for rabies and yellow fever vaccinations. It is an excellent way to use the vaccine as sparingly as possible. We now want to find out whether the Moderna vaccine is also suitable for immunisation via the skin. We first plan to test its safety and will then work out how much vaccine is needed to provide good protection.’_​_So how does vaccination via the skin work?_​_‘The skin is full of dendritic cells, which act as the guards of the immune system. When they detect a virus, they warn other immune cells, which go on to attack the virus. Skin vaccination involves delivering a small amount of the vaccine precisely where these guards are located. This ensures that no vaccine is wasted. The dendritic cells absorb the vaccine and initiate the immune response. This should ultimately protect us against coronavirus.’_​_Will we soon be using skin vaccinations?_​_‘Possibly, but possibly not.’_​


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## WheatenLover (Jul 23, 2022)

Mike said:


> I wonder why these modern drugs against Covid
> need to be repeated at regular intervals, are they not strong enough,
> are they really Vaccines?


The virus keeps mutating (changing form and ability to infect), I suppose in ways that are not predictable.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/01/covid-19-vaccines-do-not-last-long-why-booster/

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...virus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html


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## terry123 (Jul 24, 2022)

Got my last booster Saturday so I am done.  Now all of my folks are boosted.


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## Been There (Jul 26, 2022)

Here is a transcript of Dr. Birx, who aided Dr. Fauci as part of the Trump team to combat COVID. Check out her thoughts today regarding the vaccine. Like many people have asked, Who should we believe? 
https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/ne...knew-shots-would-not-prevent-covid-infection/


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## Becky1951 (Jul 26, 2022)

Been There said:


> Here is a transcript of Dr. Birx, who aided Dr. Fauci as part of the Trump team to combat COVID. Check out her thoughts today regarding the vaccine. Like many people have asked, Who should we believe?
> https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/ne...knew-shots-would-not-prevent-covid-infection/


"Like many people have asked, Who should we believe?"

If she is lying what does she gain?  Those lies could end her career.


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## oldman (Jul 26, 2022)

Is she saying that we should get a shot of Paxlovid or only if we get the virus. It is kind of ambiguous.


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## win231 (Jul 26, 2022)

Been There said:


> Here is a transcript of Dr. Birx, who aided Dr. Fauci as part of the Trump team to combat COVID. Check out her thoughts today regarding the vaccine. Like many people have asked, Who should we believe?
> https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/ne...knew-shots-would-not-prevent-covid-infection/


^^^^^ The first honest medical professional I've heard.  A rare breed.


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## SeniorBen (Jul 26, 2022)

ClarkCountyToday is a right-wing conspiracy website. Their sources include WND!   

Factcheck.org will no doubt have a field day with this.


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## Warrigal (Jul 26, 2022)

Mike said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> So these injections are wrongly named then, they are not
> a vaccine, but they are a delay, with a little immunity boost
> ...


When I see the word vaccine I think of Edward Jenner and cow pox. 
Modern vaccines have nothing to do with cows*. Early ones produced antibodies using horses or chicken eggs but still called vaccines.

Other words for vaccination these days include inoculation and immunisation While technically they may have slightly different meanings they are used interchangeably. Also used in common jargon are words like jab, shot and booster.

I don't think we need another word for some serum designed to fight a new virus or bacterium.  


* vacca, Latin word for cow.


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## MarciKS (Jul 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Mike, I don't think they're wrongly named, but it's clear that they aren't called immunizations for good reason. But what they're called is beside the point; the problem is that the covid virus is not acting like any other virus. It "figured out" how to evade the covid vaccine...the mRNA one, anyway. That's why medical scientists want to try the Novavax....though there's a huge debate now about whether or not a non-mRNA vaccine will cause the same serious problems as "long-covid".


do you happen to have a link about that information about the non-mRNA causing long covid like issues?


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## MarciKS (Jul 27, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> That is very interesting, I don't remember my early vaccinations and the later ones were injections.
> Covid tho is not the only shot that has a series, the newer Shingles is a two shot series, the vaccine for that virus that causes cervical cancer is I think a three shot series, and I believe Hepatitis is a couple shot series.  Pneumonia also a two shot because I had to get the second shot of that this year.
> 
> I tried googling skin vaccinations and from the few sites I looked at it sounds like dermal vaccination has been around from the early 1900s and that studies in the mid 1900s had conflicting results about whether it was better or not.  Then some more studies in recent years that had better study control (sounded like to me) think it is a superior method.
> ...


is that something new doing 2 shots for pneumonia? i've never had 2 shots for it.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 27, 2022)

MarciKS said:


> do you happen to have a link about that information about the non-mRNA causing long covid like issues?


The reason some researchers think that a non-mRNA vaccine might cause symptoms of long covid is because the vaccine would contain either a spike protein or a number of spike proteins from the virus itself, either live or dead.

I got that from an online medical lecture; a video. I'll see if I can find it in my history. If I find it, I'll post it and tag you.
(tomorrow, cuz right now, I'm going nite-nite)


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## Been There (Jul 27, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> "Like many people have asked, Who should we believe?"
> 
> If she is lying what does she gain?  Those lies could end her career.


I don't doubt her. We are getting more and more negative information about the vaccine. Why wouldn't people wonder who is telling the truth? Is it safe or isn't it safe. I am sure there are some benefits to the vaccine, but it is possible that not everyone is able to take it. It depends on the makeup of a person's immune system and if they have any other issues going on that may contend with parts of the vaccine. I also know of a woman that had MD, which is rare, but she took the two vaccine shots. Right after the second injection, he stood up and fainted. Now she has no feeling or use of her left arm. Coincidental? Maybe, I guess. 
I just had a former associate at the Pentagon get his second booster a week ago. The very next day, he began to fill with fluid. The doctors had it under control until the fluid started filling around his heart and yesterday, I received word that he had died. No word as to what caused his death yet.


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## win231 (Jul 27, 2022)

Been There said:


> I don't doubt her. We are getting more and more negative information about the vaccine. Why wouldn't people wonder who is telling the truth? Is it safe or isn't it safe. I am sure there are some benefits to the vaccine, but it is possible that not everyone is able to take it. It depends on the makeup of a person's immune system and if they have any other issues going on that may contend with parts of the vaccine. I also know of a woman that had MD, which is rare, but she took the two vaccine shots. Right after the second injection, he stood up and fainted. Now she has no feeling or use of her left arm. Coincidental? Maybe, I guess.
> I just had a former associate at the Pentagon get his second booster a week ago. The very next day, he began to fill with fluid. The doctors had it under control until the fluid started filling around his heart and yesterday, I received word that he had died. No word as to what caused his death yet.


We aren't likely to receive word of any vaccine -related death; at least not an honest word.
What do you think would happen to the big vaccine push if they reported deaths caused by the vaccine?


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## MarciKS (Jul 27, 2022)

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

"*Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare*. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. *Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. *More than 601 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 20, 2022. During this time, VAERS received *15,605 preliminary reports of death* (0.0026%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA clinicians review reports of death to VAERS including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records.
Continued monitoring has identified nine deaths causally associated with J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccination. CDC and FDA continue to review reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination and update information as it becomes available."


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## Alligatorob (Jul 27, 2022)

MarciKS said:


> VAERS received *15,605 preliminary reports of death* (0.0026%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.


That is pretty close to the average death rate for all Americans, about 0.0023% per day.  It seems the Covid vaccine adds little risk to just living...


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## Just Jeff (Jul 27, 2022)

Been There said:


> No word as to what caused his death yet.


Just from the info in your post,  the booster did.

If someone falls off a ladder and breaks his neck,  and dies,  what caused his death ?   For two thousand dollars bonus ,  covid did.  Yes, even on his death certificate.   This was admitted many times the last year or two - calling any death a covid death was rewarded with a lot of money.


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## Just Jeff (Jul 27, 2022)

win231 said:


> What do you think would happen to the big vaccine push if they reported deaths caused by the vaccine?


Or as has happened,   they "report" a few of the multitude of deaths caused by vaccines in order to "look" honest or objective.  The facts are hidden until someone reveals them, eh?


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## Sunny (Jul 27, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> Which is more profitable?  One shot per person or 4+ shots per year?


Probably one shot per person, as more people are likely to get it.


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## Just Jeff (Jul 27, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> Which is more profitable? One shot per person or 4+ shots per year?


Which is more profitable ?   The one that causes lifetime dependence , disease or death.


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## oldman (Jul 27, 2022)

win231 said:


> We aren't likely to receive word of any vaccine -related death; at least not an honest word.
> What do you think would happen to the big vaccine push if they reported deaths caused by the vaccine?


I thought the young men that died because of myocarditis were attributed to the vaccine?


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## Just Jeff (Jul 27, 2022)

Mike said:


> What do you think, am I just raving, or do I have a point?


https://phoreveryoung.wordpress.com/2020/01/25/dismantling-the-viral-theory/

"A vaccine was to help eradicate the alleged virus. 
After the polio vaccine was introduced, 
the symptoms were then re-diagnosed among other things as multiple sclerosis, flaccid acute paralysis, aseptic meningitis etc. and later polio was claimed to have been eradicated."


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## SeniorBen (Jul 27, 2022)

Here's an article from Science Magazine about covid-19 vaccine side effects:

*In rare cases, coronavirus vaccines may cause Long Covid–like symptoms*
Brain fog, headaches, blood pressure swings are being probed by NIH and other researchers
https://www.science.org/content/art...avirus-vaccines-may-cause-long-covid-symptoms


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## Tish (Jul 27, 2022)

I remember my mother exposing both my sister and me to a child that had chickenpox.
It worked we both got it.
I thank my stars that Covid was not around back then.


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## Just Jeff (Jul 27, 2022)

Tish said:


> I remember my mother exposing both my sister and me to a child that had chickenpox.
> It worked we both got it.
> I thank my stars that Covid was not around back then.


I think it was around back then,   as the tests for it test positive for even a cold,  if you ever had a cold.   No worries back then, as the government did not get involved.


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## Tish (Jul 28, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> I think it was around back then,   as the tests for it test positive for even a cold,  if you ever had a cold.   No worries back then, as the government did not get involved.


Very true.


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