# Harvey Weinstein - WDYT?



## Warrigal (Oct 10, 2017)

I am not familiar with this man but is seems that he is/was a very powerful man in Hollywood who could make and break careers. 

Now that he has been decloaked as a ****** predator it seems that many in the industry knew all about him. Unfortunately the people least likely to know were the young actresses just starting out. 

Do you think he will be prosecuted?


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 10, 2017)

I'm probably in the minority but I have little sympathy for people who do not walk away from these creepy old goats after the first inappropriate comment or gesture.  

IMO these women were attempting to use Harvey Weinstein just as much as he was trying to use them.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 10, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> I'm probably in the minority but I have little sympathy for people who do not walk away from these creepy old goats after the first inappropriate comment or gesture.
> 
> IMO these women were attempting to use Harvey Weinstein just as much as he was trying to use them.



I agree with you Bea, I think a lot of them were too busy seeing dollar signs to object too much, I haven't followed the whole story, not that interested in this stuff, but I guess some women made out big with payoffs from him.


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## Buckeye (Oct 10, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> I'm probably in the minority but I have little sympathy for people who do not walk away from these creepy old goats after the first inappropriate comment or gesture.
> 
> IMO these women were attempting to use Harvey Weinstein just as much as he was trying to use them.



I think this is called "blaming the victim".


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 10, 2017)

Hoot N Annie said:


> I think this is called "blaming the victim".



Well, a lot of these victims seem to be very loud and outspoken on things with microphones in front of them, I agree with Bea that they can easily walk away from him, and report any real offense when it happens, either to his company or to the public, whatever way they choose to deal with it.  But maybe I'm missing something, maybe they were forced to accept his comments and gestures?


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 10, 2017)

The time to stand up and expose people like Mr. Weinstein is the first time that an inappropriate advance is made.

I don't think that women portraying themselves as innocent victims in these situations does anything to help the majority of women gain credibility or equality in the business world.

I also believe that these high profile scandals desensitize the public and detract from the serious brutal cases of rape that  take place all to often in our society.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 10, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> The time to stand up and expose people like Mr. Weinstein is the first time that an inappropriate advance is made.
> 
> I don't think that women portraying themselves as innocent victims in these situations does anything to help the majority of women gain credibility or equality in the business world.
> 
> I also believe that these high profile scandals desensitize the public and detract from the serious brutal cases of rape that  take place all to often in our society.



Well said!  I agree that these types of scandals diminish the severity of the brutal attacks that take place far too often in our society of women who are truly victimized.


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## Buckeye (Oct 10, 2017)

SeaBreeze said:


> Well said!  I agree that these types of scandals diminish the severity of the brutal attacks that take place far too often in our society of women who are truly victimized.



So, you have determined that Weinstein's victims were somehow not "truly victimized"?  Hmmm.  Interesting.  What is your process and criteria for that determination?


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 10, 2017)

Hoot N Annie said:


> So, you have determined that Weinstein's victims were somehow not "truly victimized"?  Hmmm.  Interesting.  What is your process and criteria for that determination?



I'm just referring to all the women who are not famous and rich and have been severely raped and beaten.  I don't have any process, as I said I don't even know all the details of this guy's story, just going by the little I've read or heard on the news in the last day or so.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...-30-year-history-******-harassment/736387001/

Okay, just looked this up to see what I might not know about these victims.



> In 2014, Weinstein invited Emily Nestor, who had worked just one day  as a temporary employee, to a hotel. He told her that if she accepted  his ****** advances, he would boost her career
> In 2015, a female  assistant said Weinstein badgered her into giving him a massage while  he was naked, leaving her “crying and very distraught."
> Also in  2015, Italian model Ambra Battilana called the police to report that  Weinstein had groped her after inviting her to his New York office to  discuss her acting prospects. The Manhattan district attorney's office  did not press charges and she reportedly reached a settlement with  Weinstein.



Boost her career for ****** favors, "badgered into giving him a massage while he was naked", discuss her acting prospects and took his money to shut up.  Sorry Hoot, I can't compare these women with some who have been beaten beyond recognition, raped in the most severe ways, and sometimes killed....they are victims in my book.  They had no choice to walk away or refuse money payments, or refuse advancement of their careers.  Of course, if he's guilty of rape, then he should be charged and reported immediately by the victim.


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## tnthomas (Oct 10, 2017)

Nothing at all new, this has been the modus operandi in Hollywood from the very beginning.

But, to stay on-topic I'd say this:  Sure, if his actions broke laws, of course he should be prosecuted.

In any event, the victims certainly have(and have had) ample recourse, with civil litigation.


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## Buckeye (Oct 10, 2017)

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/new...ar-AAtgoOX?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp&ffid=gz

And another:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ar-AAth59i?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp&ffid=gz


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## Shalimar (Oct 10, 2017)

Hoot N Annie said:


> I think this is called "blaming the victim".


Indeed it is. I look forward to a day when that attitude is gone. It is particularly distressing when voiced by women. I see a double standard re women involved in the entertainment industry versus other women. It seems to me there is an expectation 

that somehow these actresses etc knew, or should have known what they were getting into? Grrrrr. I ran into the same type of men while I was in Graduate school. They used their power mercilessly. If the woman complained, the professor would have 

had her blacklisted, she would never have been able to get her PhD, and good luck finding a job! I expect it is far worse in Hollywood. These are ****** predators, plain and simple, who prey on vulnerable women. It is time we stop shaming the victims. I understand that to some, a woman's refusal/reluctance to speak out 

seems suspicious. Beyond the fact that these women are/were going up against a very powerful man, and were afraid they would not be believed, would lose their livelihood, there is the huge shame factor. I have been there, it ain't pretty.


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## Shalimar (Oct 10, 2017)

As I mentioned sometime ago, in a Bill Cosby thread, I think, I was sexually assaulted by the professor who served as my mentor while I was in Grad school. He was married, I was friends with he and his wife etc, I had no reason to believe I was being "groomed." The attack came out of nowhere. His wife was out, he weighed an athletic 185lbs, I weighed in at 115lbs. What was I supposed to do? Had I made a


complaint, I would not be a psychologist. I was in debt, a single parent, I did what I had to do. It took a great deal of therapy for me to understand that none of it was my fault---and I was in the mental health field. Imagine how difficult it must be for 

young women who have no understanding of psychological issues, pathology etc? My assault, although none of my bruises were visible, was just as vile as if I had been beaten. Emotional violence if often far more lingering than physical battery.


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 10, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> Indeed it is. I look forward to a day when that attitude is gone. It is particularly distressing when voiced by women. I see a double standard re women involved in the entertainment industry versus other women. It seems to me there is an expectation
> 
> that somehow these actresses etc knew, or should have known what they were getting into? Grrrrr. I ran into the same type of men while I was in Graduate school. They used their power mercilessly. If the woman complained, the professor would have
> 
> ...



Thank you. I agree with every word you said. Women who speak out against victimized women empower ****** predators like Weinstein. I'm sure he counted on that support.

These actresses' agents sent them to Weinstein and told them it was make or break. He was the ultimate decision-maker on whether they had careers. Even if they knew ahead of time he was a predator, the careers they had worked hard for were on the line. Ashley Judd talked about that. She was told she had to meet with him, and she knew the rumors. So she met him for breakfast and she ordered cold cereal so she could make a quick getaway.


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## Shalimar (Oct 10, 2017)

Smiling Jane said:


> Thank you. I agree with every word you said. Women who speak out against victimized women empower ****** predators like Weinstein. I'm sure he counted on that support.
> 
> These actresses' agents sent them to Weinstein and told them it was make or break. He was the ultimate decision-maker on whether they had careers. Even if they knew ahead of time he was a predator, the careers they had worked hard for were on the line. Ashley Judd talked about that. She was told she had to meet with him, and she knew the rumors. So she met him for breakfast and she ordered cold cereal so she could make a quick getaway.


Thank you!


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 10, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> As I mentioned sometime ago, in a Bill Cosby thread, I think, I was sexually assaulted by the professor who served as my mentor while I was in Grad school. He was married, I was friends with he and his wife etc, I had no reason to believe I was being "groomed." The attack came out of nowhere. His wife was out, he weighed an athletic 185lbs, I weighed in at 115lbs. What was I supposed to do? Had I made a complaint, I would not be a psychologist. I was in debt, a single parent, I did what I had to do. It took a great deal of therapy for me to understand that none of it was my fault---and I was in the mental health field. Imagine how difficult it must be for young women who have no understanding of psychological issues, pathology etc? My assault, although none of my bruises were visible, was just as vile as if I had been beaten. Emotional violence if often far more lingering than physical battery.



That also happened to a close friend, and I was around to see the devastation. She was in her last semester of school, in a design class that was required for her degree, when a powerful professor told her to either put out or no credit for his class. I got her in to see my friend who was dean of students, and he took the teacher's side. She finished her other classes and turned in everything required for his class, then she dropped out of school rather than acquiesce to him. I have to say she and I were the only ones we knew who thought she was right. Her father's lawyer contacted the school to threaten a lawsuit and they forced the teacher to give her the grade she deserved, an A. What helped her make up her mind was knowing her wealthy father could get her into another school to complete her degree. 

Psych departments are notorious for bad behavior on every level. They are nearly always run by petty people who are misogynistic, racist, elitist, greedy and downright mean. I'm sad for the young woman you were. That must have been a horrible experience. I despise men who prey on women and the enablers who allow it to happen.


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## Shalimar (Oct 10, 2017)

Smiling Jane said:


> That also happened to a close friend, and I was around to see the devastation. She was in her last semester of school, in a design class that was required for her degree, when a powerful professor told her to either put out or no credit for his class. I got her in to see my friend who was dean of students, and he took the teacher's side. She finished her other classes and turned in everything required for his class, then she dropped out of school rather than acquiesce to him. I have to say she and I were the only ones we knew who thought she was right. Her father's lawyer contacted the school to threaten a lawsuit and they forced the teacher to give her the grade she deserved, an A. What helped her make up her mind was knowing her wealthy father could get her into another school to complete her degree.
> 
> Psych departments are notorious for bad behavior on every level. They are nearly always run by petty people who are misogynistic, racist, elitist, greedy and downright mean. I'm sad for the young woman you were. That must have been a horrible experience. I despise men who prey on women and the enablers who allow it to happen.




Thanks. I am so sorry for what your friend endured. Sadly, many psych depts are as you described, one of the many reasons why I am not an academic. Years later, while attending a conference in New York, I ran into my assailant. Time, and years of dissipation had taken a toll. He was a shell of his former self. He looked horrified when he saw me at the podium. I stared him down, he left. It was a powerful moment.


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 10, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> Thanks. I am so sorry for what your friend endured. Sadly, many psych depts are as you described, one of the many reasons why I am not an academic. Years later, while attending a conference in New York, I ran into my assailant. Time, and years of dissipation had taken a toll. He was a shell of his former self. He looked horrified when he saw me at the podium. I stared him down, he left. It was a powerful moment.



Good for you. When life gives you such a moment, you have to jump on it.

A friend wanted to become a research psychologist. After enduring his colleagues to get his master's, he switched to clinical. He has many horror stories, as I'm sure you can imagine.

One good thing (for me anyway) came from the incident with my friend. I turned my back on the enabling dean, after giving him a real earful. That was some overdue housekeeping.


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## Shalimar (Oct 10, 2017)

Smiling Jane said:


> Good for you. When life gives you such a moment, you have to jump on it.
> 
> A friend wanted to become a research psychologist. After enduring his colleagues to get his master's, he switched to clinical. He has many horror stories, as I'm sure you can imagine.
> 
> One good thing (for me anyway) came from the incident with my friend. I turned my back on the enabling dean, after giving him a real earful. That was some overdue housekeeping.


Good for you!


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 10, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> Good for you!



Life is too short to tolerate jerks, pigs and enablers.


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## Dragonlady (Oct 11, 2017)

One of the really disturbing aspects of life as a woman is how quickly some of my sisters will turn on each other. I worked in a predominantly female profession and the women treated each other far worse that any of the males.
As far as Hollywood is concerned that has been the culture there for many years (hence the term "casting couch") - probably from the beginning. Many young women were deliberately kept ignorant about most things considered ******, so they were poorly prepared to deal with predatory males. There were some actresses who did say "no" and got away with it. Predators get better with practice, unfortunately. Not all women have the self confidence and assertiveness to say "no" to a powerful man - particularly if tthe grew up in a "man as master" environment.


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## terry123 (Oct 11, 2017)

He will not be prosecuted since the time limits have run out but he is ruined anyway.  I think his wife left him mainly because of the possible damage to her designer clothing line.  They say he has fled to Europe for treatment but I doubt he will be back.  If he does return he will be toast. He has lost everything and I don't think he can be rehabilitated.  He has shown everybody who he is and theres no going back.


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## Falcon (Oct 11, 2017)

Ever since Hollywood  came into existence  there was the  "Casting  Couch".

You either  jumped on it  or looked for another  method  0f  making  money.


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## Buckeye (Oct 11, 2017)

Falcon said:


> Ever since Hollywood  came into existence  there was the  "Casting  Couch".
> 
> You either  jumped on it  or looked for another  method  0f  making  money.



So, it sounds like you are okay with Weinstein's behavior.  Business as usual?  Quid pro quo?


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## Dragonlady (Oct 11, 2017)

Acknowledging the existence of something isn't exactly condoning it.


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## Falcon (Oct 11, 2017)

Hoot N Annie said:


> So, it sounds like you are okay with Weinstein's behavior.  Business as usual?  Quid pro quo?



  WHAT ???   Where does it say that ?  I resent your insinuation !    Are you on the moral  police force?

*GET REAL !*


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 11, 2017)

There have been other things that were accepted as life as usual that have been changed. I remember when many people smoked, in public and in places like restaurants and planes. It was accepted behavior. Same with seat belts. Things change.

Hopefully, taking down a behemoth like Weinstein will precipitate getting rid of the rest of them too. May he be the first of many. I see Ben Affleck got called out today for groping a very young woman.


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## AZ Jim (Oct 11, 2017)

SeaBreeze said:


> I'm just referring to all the women who are not famous and rich and have been severely raped and beaten.  I don't have any process, as I said I don't even know all the details of this guy's story, just going by the little I've read or heard on the news in the last day or so.
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...-30-year-history-******-harassment/736387001/
> 
> ...


They may have been victimized differently than others but he used power just like all rapists.


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 11, 2017)

Dragonlady said:


> One of the really disturbing aspects of life as a woman is how quickly some of my sisters will turn on each other. I worked in a predominantly female profession and the women treated each other far worse that any of the males.
> As far as Hollywood is concerned that has been the culture there for many years (hence the term "casting couch") - probably from the beginning. Many young women were deliberately kept ignorant about most things considered ******, so they were poorly prepared to deal with predatory males. There were some actresses who did say "no" and got away with it. Predators get better with practice, unfortunately. Not all women have the self confidence and assertiveness to say "no" to a powerful man - particularly if tthe grew up in a "man as master" environment.



Not sure how many women actually got away with saying no, although some of those who didn't may not want to admit it now. That's understandable.

I've seen it in other businesses too. A few places where I worked in the past were a predatory male culture. Women were expected to put out or get out. No one should have to prostitute herself or himself for a career, much less a dinky old job.

I tend to have low expectations of men, so I'm always happy when they surprise me in a good way.


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## Buckeye (Oct 11, 2017)

Falcon said:


> WHAT ???   Where does it say that ?  I resent your insinuation !    Are you on the moral  police force?
> 
> *GET REAL !*



Gee, I musta touched a nerve.


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## Falcon (Oct 11, 2017)

You  knew you would.  You've sure been questioning  a lot of posts  today.

Turn on the TV.  Take a break.  Pour a drink.

Also, leave me out of this.  Thank you.


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## helenbacque (Oct 11, 2017)

From all I can gather from news reports, his excuse is simply 'boys will be boys'.  

Apparently he's been getting away with it for a long time because he is rich and influential.


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## Cap'nSacto (Oct 11, 2017)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Here's an interesting link:
> 
> http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/new...ar-AAtgoOX?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp&ffid=gz
> 
> ...



What chaps my hide about these major news publications jumping on this story now is that they all _knew_ way back when. But they wanted to keep their jobs, too. That's how far-reaching Weinstien's power was. He didn't ingratiate himself with newspaper editors and owners for nothing. He's a pig, but a brilliant one.

I think it was Smiley who posted, whether or not he does time behind bars doesn't even matter, he's a Hollywood embarrassment now. He's done. Even if he manages to invest in motion pictures in the future, we won't see his name in the credits. He'll be paid to keep _his_ mouth shut for a change.


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## Butterfly (Oct 12, 2017)

helenbacque said:


> From all I can gather from news reports, his excuse is simply 'boys will be boys'.
> 
> Apparently he's been getting away with it for a long time because he is rich and influential.



I daresay there probably a lot of these same types in all kinds of high places.  And it's high time that their peers quit accepting that hackneyed "boys will be boys" garbage as an excuse and thus enabling their activities.  Boys may be boys, but there's no excuse for their being predatory pigs.


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## Buckeye (Oct 12, 2017)

Falcon said:


> You  knew you would.  You've sure been questioning  a lot of posts  today.
> 
> Turn on the TV.  Take a break.  Pour a drink.
> 
> Also, leave me out of this.  Thank you.



Go back and read your original post and show us where you disapproved of Weinstein's actions, or where you expressed any concern for his victims. Do you see it?  Me neither.  Just sayin', save your outrage for someone else.


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## Falcon (Oct 12, 2017)

Ho Hum.....blah, blah, blah.   Meh


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## Buckeye (Oct 12, 2017)

Falcon said:


> Ho Hum.....blah, blah, blah.   Meh



Thank you sir for effectively admitting I am right.  

Have a nice day.


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 12, 2017)

Cap'nSacto said:


> What chaps my hide about these major news publications jumping on this story now is that they all _knew_ way back when. But they wanted to keep their jobs, too. That's how far-reaching Weinstien's power was. He didn't ingratiate himself with newspaper editors and owners for nothing. He's a pig, but a brilliant one.
> 
> I think it was Smiley who posted, whether or not he does time behind bars doesn't even matter, he's a Hollywood embarrassment now. He's done. Even if he manages to invest in motion pictures in the future, we won't see his name in the credits. He'll be paid to keep _his_ mouth shut for a change.



The NY Times now admits it had this story years ago and backed off at Weinstein's request. You know he made threats of legal ramifications, but that shouldn't deter a newspaper that claims to have journalistic ethics.

When a friend emailed me that the story had finally broken, my reaction was, if a little old lady (me) in New Mexico knew for years about Weinstein, how is it possible his corporation, his industry and others who could have put a stop to it didn't come forward?


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## Falcon (Oct 12, 2017)

Putting out someone elses'  candle  doesn't make yours any brighter.


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## Dragonlady (Oct 12, 2017)

Falcon said:


> Putting out someone elses'  candle  doesn't make yours any brighter.



But it might prevent it from starting a destructive fire.
I don't believe that was the motive. "Outing" a ****** predator is a public service


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 12, 2017)

Falcon said:


> Putting out someone elses'  candle  doesn't make yours any brighter.



Good grief. It sure as heck doesn't diminish my flame when a Harvey Weinstein finally gets taken down, like he has deserved for decades. Some people shouldn't be allowed to own candles because they will always use them destructively.


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## Knight (Oct 12, 2017)

Blame the victim? I think that could depend on what each of us thinks about when asking ourselves who got what & why. 


One woman's moral compass and integrity were challenged by those asking why she would accompany Mike Tyson to his room. Her response was she thought she had no reason to fear wrong doing. They still tried to blame her.


But Desiree Washington, Miss Black Rhode Island, is one of the few if not the only female I've heard about that refused to be bought off. When I read about women that enjoyed a career because they kept their mouth shut about ****** abuse and later jump on the bandwagon to condemn I don't feel sorry for them. Unlike Desiree Washington, IMO they gave away their moral compass and integrity by not filing a complaint immediately   


Butterfly wrote
Quote
"I daresay there probably a lot of these same types in all kinds of high places"

JFK & Slick Willy to Chappaquiddick Island instantly come to mind.


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## Warrigal (Oct 12, 2017)

Falcon, you are being much too enigmatic for me to follow your logic here.

From what I heard this morning when Emma Thomson was speaking to camera, Hollywood has a big problem in this regard and perhaps Weinstein is just the first of many who are likely to be exposed.

I find his plea for a second chance to be rather pathetic. Before that can  happen surely there must be some admission of wrong doing?


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## Falcon (Oct 12, 2017)

OK.  This thread has been going back & forth so much  it's becoming too confusing.

So,  If I may,  IMO,  Weinstein  is a pig and a bully (Among other things)  and should  be kicked  out of the

entertainment business  and never let in again. He gives a bad name to the industry  and interferes  with a lot of

upcoming talent.


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## Cap'nSacto (Oct 12, 2017)

Falcon said:


> OK.  This thread has been going back & forth so much  it's becoming too confusing.
> 
> So,  If I may,  IMO,  Weinstein  is a pig and a bully (Among other things)  and should  be kicked  out of the
> 
> ...



Falcon, looks like what happened in the thread is some posters thought you were addressing the issue when you were specifically addressing HootnAnnie.


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## Cap'nSacto (Oct 12, 2017)

Please keep in mind that (according to latest news) when women who Weinstien victimized did come forward to complain, they were completely ignored. There was no one within the industry to complain to who would respond or take any action except to coerce the women into signing "hush contracts"  - under threat, not only to them, but in some cases also to any family member who worked in the industry in some capacity - and then paying them. And not all of his victims took the check.


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## Knight (Oct 12, 2017)

Cap'nSacto said:


> Please keep in mind that (according to latest news) when women who Weinstien victimized did come forward to complain, they were completely ignored. There was no one within the industry to complain to who would respond or take any action except to coerce the women into signing "hush contracts"  - under threat, not only to them, in some cases, but also any family member who worked in the industry in some capacity - and then paying them. And not all of his victims took the check.



Uh what happened to filing a complaint with the police? And in some cases going to a hospital and having a rape kit done? A choice to be made. Say nothing and make some money or file a complaint and let your talent speak for you. The real victims are the women that were sexually abused, raped after the 1st woman said nothing.


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## Cap'nSacto (Oct 12, 2017)

Knight said:


> Uh what happened to filing a complaint with the police? And in some cases going to a hospital and having a rape kit done? A choice to be made. Say nothing and make some money or file a complaint and let your talent speak for you.



Okie dokie.


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## Warrigal (Oct 12, 2017)

Knight, it is not that easy. I have an intellectually disabled grand daughter. She is very marginal and lives an independent life. Along the way she has been taken advantage of a couple of times. Once she was invited for a sleepover by a supposed female friend and accepted. The friend was married and GD woke up the next morning naked in bed, with no memories of the previous night.

My daughter did take her to the police who assessed the situation. They said they were satisfied that a ****** crime had been committed but there was no chance of getting a conviction. They did however visit the couple and let them know that they would be watching them. They demanded they hand over any cameras to check for photographs. 

Then the worry began for daughter and grand daughter - STDs? HIV? pregnancy? My daughter is a nurse so she knew what to do but for many women this is a new nightmare that they must endure.

There are many reasons why the victims decide to cut their losses and just move on. They tend to blame themselves, not knowing about all of the other abused women. Once they do know, they emerge from the shadows to tell their own stories. Others just avoid the scandalous publicity, including being condemned for having kept silent up to that point.


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## Warrigal (Oct 12, 2017)

Emma Thompson's interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV_W6kPqR9U


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## Shalimar (Oct 12, 2017)

Knight said:


> Uh what happened to filing a complaint with the police? And in some cases going to a hospital and having a rape kit done? A choice to be made. Say nothing and make some money or file a complaint and let your talent speak for you. The real victims are the women that were sexually abused, raped after the 1st woman said nothing.




In a perfect world, it would be that clear cut, in this one it is murky indeed. With rape convictions currently standing at 8 percent, much less in decades past, many women would think twice before preferring charges. Assuming, of course that the police would listen, even now there is a culture among many police/prosecutors,  of not taking women seriously in this regard, particularly if 

they are beautiful. All rape victims are real victims. No one deserves to be sexually assaulted regardless of whether or not  they choose to run the gauntlet of shame in a probably futile attempt to receive justice. As for their talent speaking for itself. Excusez-moi, but that is disingenuous, if Weinstein could command New York Times into silence, what power did he have over 

the hiring practices in Hollywood? It is offensive/frustrating in this day and age to hear time and again how women are in some way liable for ****** assault. We are not. I have counseled rape victims of both sexes for decades, the cynical truth 

remains, if you want conviction, make sure you are beaten first. Nice eh? Guess who the people are who are least likely to come forward after being raped? Men. They handle it far worse than women.


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 12, 2017)

Knight said:


> Uh what happened to filing a complaint with the police?



That's like asking to be brutalized all over again.



> A choice to be made. Say nothing and make some money or file a complaint and let your talent speak for you. The real victims are the women that were sexually abused, raped after the 1st woman said nothing.



The rapist is the only perpetrator here, not the women he previously assaulted. I doubt anyone made as simple a choice as the one you're hypothesizing.


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## Shalimar (Oct 12, 2017)

Smiling Jane said:


> That's like asking to be brutalized all over again.
> 
> 
> 
> The rapist is the only perpetrator here, not the women he previously assaulted. I doubt anyone made as simple a choice as the one you're hypothesizing.


I wonder how a man traumatised by ****** assault would feel about being processed for a rape kit? Not just swabs, which are bad enough, but pics, being handled by strangers who may or may not be of the gender who violated him? Then there are 

all the hideous questions.....This question is rhetorical, of course. On numerous occasions I have comforted male rape victims, they react just as strongly as female victims. If anything, their sense of shame tends to be worse.


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 12, 2017)

This thread reminds me so much of an ex, I'm starting to get tickled. Before I told him about anything going on in my life, I would go through a ritual where I explained that I wasn't telling him because I needed or wanted his opinion about whether I was right or wrong or what I should have done, nor did I need for him to solve the problem for me. It took all of that for him to get out of Father Knows Best mode, and then we could talk. He would often backslide during the course of the conversation, but I would remind him and he would get back on track. Oddly enough, he was always mightily upset when I didn't tell him everything because sometimes I didn't feel like going through the ritual.


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## Butterfly (Oct 12, 2017)

Here, to get a rape conviction, it pretty much has to happen on the sidewalk outside of City Hall, at high noon on a weekday, be witnessed by at least 100 people, and the victim must be a virgin with absolutely no previous history who was walking to church.  It also helps if the victim was battered half to death in the process, or better yet, stabbed a couple times.


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 12, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Here, to get a rape conviction, it pretty much has to happen on the sidewalk outside of City Hall, at high noon on a weekday, be witnessed by at least 100 people, and the victim must be a virgin with absolutely no previous history who was walking to church.  It also helps if the victim was battered half to death in the process, or better yet, stabbed a couple times.



It helps even more if she's the daughter of someone with some clout. It's also a good thing if it wasn't a cop who raped her.


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## Shalimar (Oct 12, 2017)

Smiling Jane said:


> It helps even more if she's the daughter of someone with some clout. It's also a good thing if it wasn't a cop who raped her.


I recall the story of a Canadian woman who stated she was raped by some Parisian cops who lured her back to their station. Her father, who was a Canadian policeman, travelled to Paris and the cops were charged. I don't know if they were convicted.


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## Warrigal (Oct 12, 2017)

Nothing new in that insight. Read Greer's _Female Eunuch_  and you will read her observation that a rape complaint is only likely to succeed in a conviction if there is a trail of blood and semen leading directly from the victim to the rapist. An even then there must be evidence of battery, otherwise consent is assumed.


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## Shalimar (Oct 12, 2017)

Warrigal said:


> Nothing new in that insight. Read Greer's _Female Eunuch_  and you will read her observation that a rape complaint is only likely to succeed in a conviction if there is a trail of blood and semen leading directly from the victim to the rapist. An even then there must be evidence of battery, otherwise consent is assumed.


Qft.


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## Warrigal (Oct 12, 2017)

This is a financial cost to this kind of behaviour, but the cost is falling on his company, the staff and investors.



> The financial and production communities are following the fast-moving developments with a mix of shock, dismay and bafflement. Clarity is definitely in short supply. “Waiting to see what the future is going to look like over there,” said one producer who is in business with TWC. “We don’t know yet who knew what when and I assume that’s going to impact everything.”
> 
> An employee of TWC reached by Deadline would not speak on the record, but described an office environment where already flagging morale has curdled into anger at Weinstein for acting without a thought to the consequences for the many troops charged with executing his vision. The growing consensus is that job security is tenuous at best.



Full ramifications here: http://deadline.com/2017/10/the-wei...as-agencies-cut-off-talent-supply-1202187269/


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## Falcon (Oct 13, 2017)

Cap'nSacto said:


> Falcon, looks like what happened in the thread is some posters thought you were addressing the issue when you were specifically addressing HootnAnnie.



You are correct.  That's exactly what happened.  *WHAT A WASTE OF TIME*

What an idiotic way to spend time on the computer.

I'v e better things to do than argue with a pot stirrer.


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## Knight (Oct 13, 2017)

Reading the other posts since my last one, I didn't know that reporting ****** assault is useless & rape kits mean nothing. Do nothing doesn't seem like a good message for women to follow but the posts showing me my thinking is based on what I thought would be the right thing to do must be wrong. Live & learn I guess


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 13, 2017)

Knight said:


> Reading the other posts since my last one, I didn't know that reporting ****** assault is useless & rape kits mean nothing. Do nothing doesn't seem like a good message for women to follow but the posts showing me my thinking is based on what I thought would be the right thing to do must be wrong. Live & learn I guess



I volunteered at a rape crisis center for a few years. We were trained to  support the people who came to us as they went through the process. We gave them the information  they needed, and then it was up to them to decide how they chose to  deal with it. The decisions were not ours to make, which is as it should be.


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## Buckeye (Oct 13, 2017)

I'm on multiple senior social sites. and what I find disappointing (but not surprising) is the number of folks who implicitly or explicitly defend Weinstein.  Most boil down to blaming the victim.  

"Everyone knew it" - well, no, not everyone did.  The people in a position of power who knew should have interceded a long time ago.  But the victims typically did not know what was in store for them.  Also, I do not believe that President Obama knew, and would not have accepted the donations if he knew.  Hillary, not so much.
"Why didn't they speak up when it happened" - Some did, some didn't, but those who did were not believed or were otherwise discredited. How many of us would be willing to be the first to speak up against such a powerful man?  Think of Bill Cosby's victims, or even worse, Jerry Sandusky (Penn State).
"Quid pro Quo: - sex for a role.  Of course some of this happens.  A certain group of women have always been willing to prostitute themselves (I'm not passing judgment on those women).  But not all women are willing to make that trade, and is it okay with you that it is a job requirement?
"Casting Couch" or as it is called in the UK "The Producer's cut" "is just part of the business" -  This is just another way of saying {shrug} business as usual, quid pro quo. 
"Should have filled charges/rape kits/etc"  - Again, you go first.  And since they were not all rapes, but other forms of ****** misconduct, that is not often a solution.

I've also noticed that folks who live in California are automatically experts in the movie industry.  Who knew?   

And as a caveat, if I didn't offend you by this post, I apologize, and will get around to you later.


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## Warrigal (Oct 13, 2017)

Knight said:


> Reading the other posts since my last one, I didn't know that reporting ****** assault is useless & rape kits mean nothing. Do nothing doesn't seem like a good message for women to follow but the posts showing me my thinking is based on what I thought would be the right thing to do must be wrong. Live & learn I guess



Don't feel bad. I was brought up to think exactly like you by my mother but neither of us knew then what I've learned since. I still hope that I would have found the courage to resist and complain but I have never been put to the test. Few males have either.


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## HipGnosis (Oct 13, 2017)

I'm fairly confident that Weinstein's never met Ronda Rousey.  I'd kinda like them to...


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## Smiling Jane (Oct 13, 2017)

Another thing we haven't mentioned is that when a rape or ****** assault is reported, the police take the victim into a room where there are stacks of books containing mug shots of people (some of whom are likely to be known to the victim) who have been arrested for rape or ****** assult. The rape or ****** assault victim is expected to go through all of the mug shots and pick out the perpetrator.

If that doesn't make a victim feel all warm and fuzzy and safe right after a rape or ****** assault, nothing will.


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## Shalimar (Oct 13, 2017)

Hoot N Annie said:


> I'm on multiple senior social sites. and what I find disappointing (but not surprising) is the number of folks who implicitly or explicitly defend Weinstein.  Most boil down to blaming the victim.
> 
> "Everyone knew it" - well, no, not everyone did.  The people in a position of power who knew should have interceded a long time ago.  But the victims typically did not know what was in store for them.  Also, I do not believe that President Obama knew, and would not have accepted the donations if he knew.  Hillary, not so much.
> "Why didn't they speak up when it happened" - Some did, some didn't, but those who did were not believed or were otherwise discredited. How many of us would be willing to be the first to speak up against such a powerful man?  Think of Bill Cosby's victims, or even worse, Jerry Sandusky (Penn State).
> ...


Hoot, satire becomes you! Seriously, I yearn for a day when all people view ****** assault as you do. It will be a victory for everyone.


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## Shalimar (Oct 13, 2017)

Knight said:


> Reading the other posts since my last one, I didn't know that reporting ****** assault is useless & rape kits mean nothing. Do nothing doesn't seem like a good message for women to follow but the posts showing me my thinking is based on what I thought would be the right thing to do must be wrong. Live & learn I guess




We all have misconceptions of one kind or another. The fact that you are open and honest enough to recognise and tackle yours is all that can be required of any decent human being. I salute you.


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## ray188 (Oct 14, 2017)

Weinstein is a miserable slob. Blaming the victim is not appropriate. However, I think we have to understand that the "casting couch" goes both ways.


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## Knight (Oct 14, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> We all have misconceptions of one kind or another. The fact that you are open and honest enough to recognise and tackle yours is all that can be required of any decent human being. I salute you.




Thank you. I was taking this from my perspective of what I would do to be able to sleep at night with a clear conscious. 


I took the time to look for how this came to light. 
http://abcnews.go.com/entertainment/yorkers-explosive-expose-harvey-weinstein/story?id=50399286


I have a new understanding of the fear those women faced and am grateful my wife in her years in the workforce never had to endure that kind of fear. I do know my wife would not have put up with any ****** misconduct. Thankfully her job as a well paid maintenance mechanic in a major manufacturing company didn't put her in that position. The entertainment industry has for years been know for the "casting couch"  hopefully with this revelation that will go away.


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## grahamg (Oct 15, 2017)

Knight said:


> Originally Posted by *Cap'nSacto*
> 
> Please keep in mind that (according to latest news) when women who Weinstien victimized did come forward to complain, they were completely ignored. There was no one within the industry to complain to who would respond or take any action except to coerce the women into signing "hush contracts"  - under threat, not only to them, in some cases, but also any family member who worked in the industry in some capacity - and then paying them. And not all of his victims took the check.
> 
> ...




I don't have a great insight into all that has gone on so far as this man goes, but I did witness a difficult situation arise and luckily dissipate during my work at a large company. A manager who was married with children, "took an interest" in a very naïve sixteen year old, and there was a feeling amongst the other staff that he was taking advantage of his position in order to take advantage of her to some extent.

The hierarchy at the top of the company were informed as to what was going on, and chose not to intervene, and in the end the girl herself ended the "friendship" (the manager concerned had a reputation for "enjoying a highly varied sex life", a reputation he was happy to enhance himself). 

I'm aware this is nothing like what has gone on in Hollywood over many years with this famous producer, and I doubt most of the women there were as naïve as the girl I'm trying to describe, but in a small way it shows both how a vulnerable girl can be "made a fool of", or make a fool of herself, and how those in authority maybe do choose to turn a blind eye, even when a fair proportion of the staff are aware of what went on and were upset by it.


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## hearlady (Oct 15, 2017)

I hope this is the begining of the end for the seedy side of Hollywood.
So many portray themselves as feminists but demean women who have an opinion different from them.
They speak out about guns but make violent movies glorifying gun violence.
It's a culture of drugs and that part of the culture is the demand that brings the supply into our country. Do you think when they're snorting a line of coke they're thinking about the 13 yr old that's being introduced through that shipment?
 Do you think Harvey Weinstein gives one crap about the young women he assaulted? No and neither do most of the women cashing their enormous paychecks. 
I hope the people that are part of Hollywood/entertainment/politics take a stand and be part of the solution instead of most of the problem. I know there are some who are real.


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## ray188 (Oct 15, 2017)

hearlady said:


> I hope this is the begining of the end for the seedy side of Hollywood.
> So many portray themselves as feminists but demean women who have an opinion different from them.
> They speak out about guns but make violent movies glorifying gun violence.
> It's a culture of drugs and that part of the culture is the demand that brings the supply into our country. Do you think when they're snorting a line of coke they're thinking about the 13 yr old that's being introduced through that shipment?
> ...


I seriously doubt this will change anything. Whether it is the Hollywood crowd or the pols now saying, "I am SHOCKED......SHOCKED I say" - they're all phonies. They knew what he was and accepted his jobs and campaign contributions while looking the other way.


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## helenbacque (Oct 16, 2017)

You cannot legislate decency.  IOW, more laws won't fix this.  Only condemnation by one's peers will discourage indecent behavior and as long as there is a pay off, it will be overlooked by many.


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## Happyflowerlady (Nov 7, 2017)

It is possible that this kind of abusive behaviour has been going on for many years, probably long before Weinstein came on the scene. I was just watching a video about Shirley Temple, who we all know as a famous child star; but when you look at some of the roles she was cast in in the early movies, it really gives a person pause to wonder how many of the child stars have also gone through things that should never have happened with them.


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## Sunny (Nov 8, 2017)

Today's Washington Post had an interesting article about Mia Farrow's son, Ronan, writing the exposure of Harvey Weinstein, for The New Yorker. Ronan has sided with his mother in her accusations against Woody Allen in the equally high-profile sex abuse case. Woody apparently got away with it.  I wonder if he would today?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.37cffce2186e


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## Warrigal (Nov 9, 2017)

The Weinstein effect. It has gone global. Abuse of power is being exposed in many countries.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-...tentacles-that-reach-for-the-powerful/9129152


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## Knight (Nov 9, 2017)

All this unraveling of what people in a position of power have been doing makes me happy I've lived a dull routine everyday life.


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## applecruncher (Nov 9, 2017)

Yes, Shirley Temple was cute and talented, but I watched the video and some of it is....creepy.

I've also heard about pedophiles getting their licks from that show "Toddlers & Tiaras", (I don't know if it's still on the air).


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