# Religion or Cult - Scientology Has Big Enough Profits to Advertise on Super Bowl 2015



## SeaBreeze (Feb 2, 2015)

This "non-profit religion", who allegedly does charge large amounts of money to its followers for certain services, seems to be raking in the big bucks to afford air time on the 2015 Super Bowl.  I didn't see the commercial, but there's enough people buzzing about it this morning.  Believers like Tom Cruise and John Travolta appear to be lining their pockets very well.  :dollar:  Do you know any scientologists?  I don't, but if I did, I wouldn't want them trying to convert me, that's for sure.


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## oakapple (Feb 2, 2015)

Don't know any either, but they would be shown the door by me the minute they announced who they were.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 2, 2015)

Scientology has a history peppered with questionable, illegal and sometimes violent episodes.

Of course that can said of most organized religions, but Scientology just seems to go the extra yard in those departments.


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## Don M. (Feb 2, 2015)

Scientology is a sham and a scam.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 2, 2015)

I think many religions are glorified cults... Seventh Day Adventist being one.  Jehova's Witness another..


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## SifuPhil (Feb 2, 2015)

Most cults are based upon the personality of a single, charismatic leader.

If that is indeed true, then Christianity itself is one huge cult. As is Islam, Buddhism and pretty much most other belief systems.


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## Cookie (Feb 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Most cults are based upon the personality of a single, charismatic leader.
> 
> If that is indeed true, then Christianity itself is one huge cult. As is Islam, Buddhism and pretty much most other belief systems.



Just want to say, yes, scientology is definitely a cult and a dangerous one  at that.  I've had first hand experience (in another cult), know someone in scientology  and have done lots of reading on the subject - and avoid it like the plague.  Once you  know their methods it's very obvious. IMO Christian sects are cults  too, including christianity, although they would disagree.

There's a new movie out 'Going Clear' on scientology.

Google 'cults'  - it's all there.


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## Don M. (Feb 2, 2015)

Mormons are another group that makes me wonder...Joseph Smith had a "visit" from an angel telling him about a book written on golden plates...which he never found....but which he used as a basis for his new religion...Yeah, right.  That is another reason why I could never take someone like Mitt Romney seriously as a Presidential Candidate....or Harry Reid as a Senate leader.  If these people can blindly follow such religious dogma, what other "illusions" do they harbor???


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## darroll (Feb 2, 2015)

The NFL can buy allot of flat footballs for four million.


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## jujube (Feb 2, 2015)

Scientology pretty much "owns" Clearwater, FL.  Pretty good for a "non-profit", huh?


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## Cookie (Feb 2, 2015)

If you can get hold of this book, it's excellent. Niece of current head honcho - I got it from the library here.


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## Josiah (Feb 2, 2015)

I'm baffled by its durability. I mean here every one of us sees it for what it is and yet it continues to thrive with a bunch of well heeled celebrity adherents. Boggles the mind.


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## Don M. (Feb 2, 2015)

It just goes to show the Wisdom of P.T. Barnum, when he said, many years ago...."There is a Sucker Born every Minute".


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## SifuPhil (Feb 2, 2015)

jujube said:


> Scientology pretty much "owns" Clearwater, FL.  Pretty good for a "non-profit", huh?



I've heard about that, and did some reading on it. It seems they either bought-out or corrupted the local police and have them run out anyone who causes problems for their headquarters. 

In addition to their own "bouncers", of course.


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## Sunny (Feb 2, 2015)

I'm as skeptical of this as I am of any religion. But I'm curious: what is it? Is it a branch of Christianity?


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## Cookie (Feb 2, 2015)

No, it is more like some kind of crazy science fiction movie - as the leader had previously been a sci-fi writer who made a bet with a friend that he could start a religion/cult.


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## Don M. (Feb 2, 2015)

Sunny said:


> I'm as skeptical of this as I am of any religion. But I'm curious: what is it? Is it a branch of Christianity?



Scientology is the creation of L. Ron Hubbard....a noted Science Fiction writer.  A few years ago, I looked up the info on this Sect, and it appears that it all started with a barroom bet with Robert Heinlein...another Sci Fi writer, when Hubbard bet Heinlein that he could get rich by starting a "religion".  If you look up Scientology on the Internet, there is gobs of info on it...but the basic seems to be that humans came to Earth from a planet called OZ on a vessel that strongly resembled a Boeing 707...which at that time was the most sophisticated form of human transport.  It gets even more bizarre, the more you read.  The fact that people are gullible enough to believe this nonsense shows just how dumb some people really are.


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## Josiah (Feb 2, 2015)

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2015/02/02/clearly-a-cult/


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## Josiah (Feb 2, 2015)

Sunny said:


> I'm as skeptical of this as I am of any religion. But I'm curious: what is it? Is it a branch of Christianity?



Sunny see this   http://www.gotquestions.org/scientology-Christian-cult.html


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## WhatInThe (Feb 2, 2015)

What baffles me more than the sometime criminal cultishness of these religions or philosophies IS the willingness to follow. Which is the saddest thing of all. But people are like sheep and want to follow if for no other reason laziness. It's sad how bad people "want to belong" or feel obligated to belong to something, anything. It's worse than childhood peer pressure sometimes. For some reason "belonging" or what you belong to is a status symbol, not the substance or individual.

Cults and cult leaders need what a criminal conman needs-greed. Except cults exploit the desire to belong. Instead of money they use that 'desire' to their advantage. They know they have a gullible if not broken individual. Along with wanting to belong people want a clear cut road map in life. They want clear direction again sometimes leading back to laziness. People want a paint by number life. They don't want to have to think. They want cookie cutter solutions. They want "answers".

 Cults and religions in particular give people those answers in the way of their own rules and laws. This is why many react negatively to different thinkers-they're not like me because they don't do as I do-uh oh.

Eh, in short most Americans are lazy sheep just looking for a heard & shepherd.


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## Warrigal (Feb 2, 2015)

Apart from your last sentence, I am in complete agreement.
One way you can tell a cult from a genuine faith community is by whether or not you can simply walk away.
Apostasy has no place in any religion. Nor has harassment or isolation from your family.


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## Cookie (Feb 2, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> One way you can tell a cult from a genuine faith community is by whether or not you can simply walk away.



Excellent point.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 2, 2015)

Sunny said:


> I'm as skeptical of this as I am of any religion. But I'm curious: what is it? Is it a branch of Christianity?



Here's some info on the story of scientology.


"In Scientology doctrine, Xenu is a galactic ruler who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. 

Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to cause problems today. These events are known to Scientologists as "Incident II", and the traumatic memories associated with them as The Wall of Fire or the R6 implant. 

The story of Xenu is part of a much wider range of Scientology beliefs in extraterrestrial civilizations and alien interventions in Earthly events, collectively described as space opera by L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology.

Hubbard detailed the story in Operating Thetan level III (OT III) in 1967, famously warning that R6 was "calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it." The Xenu story was the start of the use of the volcano as a common symbol of Scientology and Dianetics from 1968 to the present day.

Much of the criticism of the Church of Scientology focuses on the story of Xenu. The Church has tried to keep Xenu confidential; critics claim revealing the story is in the public interest, given the high prices charged for OT III, part of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology" doctrines taught only to members that have already contributed large amounts of money to the organization.

The Church avoids making mention of Xenu in public statements and has gone to considerable effort to maintain the story's confidentiality, including legal action on the grounds of both copyright and trade secrecy. Despite this, much material on Xenu has leaked to the public.
Xenu - Summary of the Xenu story

The story of Xenu is covered in OT III, part of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology" doctrines taught only to advanced members. It is described in more detail in the accompanying confidential "Assists" lecture of 3 October 1968 and is dramatized in Revolt in the Stars. Direct quotations in this section are from these sources. (See also Scientology beliefs and practices)

Seventy-five million years ago, Xenu was the ruler of a Galactic Confederacy which consisted of 26 stars and 76 planets including Earth, which was then known as Teegeeack. The planets were overpopulated, each having on average 178 billion people.

 The Galactic Confederacy's civilization was comparable to our own, with people "walking around in clothes which looked very remarkably like the clothes they wear this very minute" and using cars, trains and boats looking exactly the same as those "circa 1950, 1960" on Earth.

Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of "renegades", he defeated the populace and the "Loyal Officers", a force for good that was opposed to Xenu.

 Then, with the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions of people to paralyse them with injections of alcohol and glycol, under the pretense that they were being called for "income tax inspections". The kidnapped populace was loaded into space planes for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).

 The space planes were exact copies of Douglas DC-8s, "except the DC-8 had fans, propellers on it and the space plane didn't." DC-8s have jet engines, not propellers, although Hubbard may have meant the turbine fans.

When the space planes had reached Teegeeack/Earth, the paralysed people were unloaded and stacked around the bases of volcanoes across the planet. Hydrogen bombs were lowered into the volcanoes, and all were detonated simultaneously. Only a few people's physical bodies survived. Hubbard described the scene in his abortive film script, Revolt in the Stars:

Simultaneously, the planted charges erupted. Atomic blasts ballooned from the craters of Loa, Vesuvius, Shasta, Washington, Fujiyama, Etna, and many, many others. Arching higher and higher, up and outwards, towering clouds mushroomed, shot through with flashes of flame, waste and fission. Great winds raced tumultuously across the face of Earth, spreading tales of destruction.

 Debris-studded, and sickly yellow, the atomic clouds followed close on the heels of the winds. Their bow-shaped fronts encroached inexorably upon forest, city and mankind, they delivered their gifts of death and radiation. A skyscraper, tall and arrow-straight, bent over to form a question mark to the very idea of humanity before crumbling into the screaming city below... —Revolt in the Stars treatment

The now-disembodied victims' souls, which Hubbard called thetans, were blown into the air by the blast. They were captured by Xenu's forces using an "electronic ribbon" ("which also was a type of standing wave") and sucked into "vacuum zones" around the world. The hundreds of billions of captured thetans were taken to a type of cinema, where they were forced to watch a "three-D, super colossal motion picture" for 36 days.

 This implanted what Hubbard termed "various misleading data" (collectively termed the R6 implant) into the memories of the hapless thetans, "which has to do with God, the Devil, space opera, etcetera". This included all world religions, with Hubbard specifically attributing Roman Catholicism and the image of the Crucifixion to the influence of Xenu.

 The interior decoration of "all modern theaters" is also said by Hubbard to be due to an unconscious recollection of Xenu's implants. The two "implant stations" cited by Hubbard were said to have been located on Hawaii and Las Palmas in the Canary Islands.

In addition to implanting new beliefs in the thetans, the images deprived them of their sense of identity. When the thetans left the projection areas, they started to cluster together in groups of a few thousand, having lost the ability to differentiate between each other. 

Each cluster of thetans gathered into one of the few remaining bodies that survived the explosion. These became what are known as body thetans, which are said to be still clinging to and adversely affecting everyone except those Scientologists who have performed the necessary steps to remove them.

The Loyal Officers finally overthrew Xenu and locked him away in a mountain, where he was imprisoned forever by a force field powered by an eternal battery. (Some have suggested that Xenu is imprisoned on Earth in the Pyrenees, but Hubbard merely refers to "one of these planets" [of the Galactic Confederacy]; he does, however, refer to the Pyrenees as being the site of the last operating "Martian report station", which is probably the source of this particular confusion.[1]) Teegeeack/Earth was subsequently abandoned by the Galactic Confederacy and remains a pariah "prison planet" to this day, although it has suffered repeatedly from incursions by alien "Invader Forces" since then.

Xenu - Xenu's volcanoes

In OT III, Hubbard names the locations around the world where Xenu's genocide took place, in addition to the two "implant stations" located at Hawaii and Las Palmas. The volcanoes which Xenu blew up were said to have been situated at:

Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9f5_1257197129#tgqv5Mc6uEKBb61p.99


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 2, 2015)

Some stories of members...http://exscientologykids.com/


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## Butterfly (Feb 3, 2015)

It's a wacko cult, with no connection to Christianity.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 5, 2015)

Just saw some of the new documentary on Scientology on HBO called Going Clear.  This is some sick "religion", can't believe what goes on with these people, and how they can suck people in to brainwash and control them...what a scam! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/29/scientology-doc-going-clear_n_6939318.html


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## Don M. (Apr 6, 2015)

Scientology is proof that P.T. Barnum was correct when he said, many years ago, "There is a Sucker Born Every Minute".


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## tnthomas (Apr 6, 2015)

Why the government ever gave Scientology status as a "religion" is totally beyond my comprehension.  They are creepy and are just extortionists, they sucked thousands of dollars out of a former high school buddy of mine.    When I was attending community collage, the Scientology recruiters would strike up a conversation with you, be all friendly and smiles and would invite you to attend their meeting.  However, if you declined the offer, the smiles would disappear and they would get pretty ugly.


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## Cookie (Apr 6, 2015)

If you want to know the facts, read the books about them, lots in the library, which all tell the same or similar things about how underhanded they are. Someone I know is trapped in Scientology, they have a ton of dirt on him and he has paid them tons of money, which makes it very hard for him to leave.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 6, 2015)

That's terrible Cookie, they really seem to strip down your self esteem and hold you captive with blackmail...while draining your bank account.  I'm amazed they're still going so strong.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

If you look at the premise of what their beliefs are and what they are founded on... one really has to wonder how in the world ANYONE joins them..  Seriously Aliens and spaceships?


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 6, 2015)

They said they don't reveal any of that, they keep things more of a mystery until the follower is a couple of months into it.  I think if they knew that from the getgo, there would be less people joining.  They need to see some of these documentaries and read some of the articles, and wake up.  Tom Cruise is a hopeless case.


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## Cookie (Apr 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> If you look at the premise of what their beliefs are and what they are founded on... one really has to wonder how in the world ANYONE joins them..  Seriously Aliens and spaceships?



They had/have a very powerful strategy, but now since all the media exposes, it's no longer secret.  They reveal their alien/spaceship malarky later on after their recruit is deeply entrenched and has paid big, then it is impossible to get out. They are incredibly wealthy with many members who are lawyers.  Cults are very clever and anyone can get caught in one, it's not about intelligence.  They have techniques which work very well.  

As I said in a previous post, there are loads of books out now (Going Clear by Lawrence Wright; Cults in our Midst; Combating Cult Mind Control; and Beyond Belief by Jenna Miscavige Hill, the leader's niece, who escaped). Nowadays since there have been so many publications and they have a very bad reputation, I doubt that they are doing so well.


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## tnthomas (Apr 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> If you look at the premise of what their beliefs are and what they are founded on... one really has to wonder how in the world ANYONE joins them..  Seriously Aliens and spaceships?



I'm O.K. with aliens and spaceships       !

it's the Earthly money-grabbing thuggery that bothers me.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> If you look at the premise of what their beliefs are and what they are founded on... one really has to wonder how in the world ANYONE joins them..  Seriously Aliens and spaceships?



Yes, because that's_ far_ less believable than someone who died, came back to life and lives up in the clouds, all the while listening to everything that everyone says, watching everything they do and performing miracles on a daily basis.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Yes, because that's_ far_ less believable than someone who died, came back to life and lives up in the clouds, all the while listening to everything that everyone says, watching everything they do and performing miracles on a daily basis.




Good point...


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## oldman (Apr 6, 2015)

Don M. said:


> Scientology is the creation of L. Ron Hubbard....a noted Science Fiction writer.  A few years ago, I looked up the info on this Sect, and it appears that it all started with a barroom bet with Robert Heinlein...another Sci Fi writer, when Hubbard bet Heinlein that he could get rich by starting a "religion".  If you look up Scientology on the Internet, there is gobs of info on it...but the basic seems to be that humans came to Earth from a planet called OZ on a vessel that strongly resembled a Boeing 707...which at that time was the most sophisticated form of human transport.  It gets even more bizarre, the more you read.  The fact that people are gullible enough to believe this nonsense shows just how dumb some people really are.



Well, I can't fault them for using a B-707, if it may have been that. The 707 was a very good plane that was considered ahead of it's time at that time.


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## Cookie (Apr 6, 2015)

Just caught the Going Clear documentary on utube today, and it's very scary how truly evil this organization is. I recommend this should be seen.


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## Pappy (Apr 6, 2015)

I recall the Hale-Bopp cult which claimed that there was a spacecraft following the comet. I believe that there were more than 30 cult followers that took their own lives. Seem to remember it was on Art Bells coast to coast radio program.


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## Warrigal (Apr 6, 2015)

It has religion status over here too, tnthomas. I think they should be more properly registered as a corporation.
The latter would ensure that they had to operate according to much stricter laws.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 6, 2015)

Pappy said:


> I recall the Hale-Bopp cult which claimed that there was a spacecraft following the comet. I believe that there were more than 30 cult followers that took their own lives. Seem to remember it was on Art Bells coast to coast radio program.



Yes, Heaven's Gate - the biggest mass suicide ever on American soil. 

And of course the founder - Applewhite, I think his name was - died of cancer years later.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 7, 2015)

John Travolta defends the religion he's been in for 40 years, and criticizes the documentary that he refuses to watch....can we say brainwashed?  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/07/john-travolta-defends-scientology_n_7016632.html


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## Cookie (Apr 7, 2015)

I think Travolta and Cruise are very trapped and very brainwashed too and the 'church' must have a lot of dirt on these guys from their early years that they would not hesitate to expose, which would ruin their lives.  One of the things that the church discourages is reading - like prohibiting reading anything that's not church approved, as is the case with many cults. Not allowed to see or know anyone that would be an 'enemy' of the church. Anyone who criticizes the church is considered a subversive person and has to be disconnected from. Both Cruise and Travolta don't exactly seem like the sharpest knives in the drawer anyway.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 7, 2015)

I agree with everything you've said Cookie, I suppose he had no choice to view the documentary even if he wanted to.


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## Debby (Apr 7, 2015)

Just curious QuickSilver....why do you think the SDA Church is a cult?


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## QuickSilver (Apr 7, 2015)

Debby said:


> I seriously don't think SDA's are a glorified cult.  It is Bible based except for the dietary stuff, although even there, the Bible has a story and other OT teachings that support their premise.  Just curious why you would say that?  What has been your experience if you don't mind my asking?



I do... because of the fact that the founder Ellen White claimed to have visionary experiences and the gift of prophecy.   IMO when a modern day person claims to be seeing and speaking to God... It's wandered over into the realm of cult.


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## Debby (Apr 7, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I do... because of the fact that the founder Ellen White claimed to have visionary experiences and the gift of prophecy.   IMO when a modern day person claims to be seeing and speaking to God... It's wandered over into the realm of cult.




Oh so the criteria is that the person who has the 'vision' is from ancient times rather than current?  Is that the difference between a prophet and a scammer?  Because the OT is full of prophets or would you call them scammers too?


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## QuickSilver (Apr 7, 2015)

Debby said:


> Oh so the criteria is that the person who has the 'vision' is from ancient times rather than current?  Is that the difference between a prophet and a scammer?  Because the OT is full of prophets or would you call them scammers too?



No... I don't believe that people in ancient times had visions either..  I think it was probably some really good vegetation... smoked or chewed.

Not sure if Ellen was smoking, chewing or scamming... but she certainly didn't talk to God..

On the other hand...  hallmark signs of classic schizophrenia are visual and auditory hallucinations..  So it doesn't always have to be scamming I guess.


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## Debby (Apr 7, 2015)

I came across the following definitions that bring up a couple of interesting points that today move the SDA Church away from your understanding I think.  First of all, the SDA Church doesn't have a limited number of followers (67,000 approximately world wide) and it's practises are neither mysterious nor unsavoury.  In fact the practises mirror those of most of the other churches.  Nor does it brainwash members into engaging in anything that is obscene or harmful for anyone's sake but instead always points the members to go to the Bible for understanding.  I think the worst that could be said of the SDA Church is that you won't be accepted into membership if you smoke, drink or wear jewellery and they strongly encourage you to forgo the consumption of meat (based on the story of Daniel in the lions den where he and his friends fared better on a veg. diet than did the soldiers of the king who were able to consume all manner of things).

Actually, I think the definition of religion as given below, pretty much says it all about the SDA Church.
_


Traditional Definition of Cult and Religion_
Cult ‘“ a new religious movement that has a limited number of followers and whose practices may or may not be mysterious and possible unsavory.
Religion ‘“ a method of thought that is meant to give meaning to man’s life by putting him in communion with a higher power through stories, rituals, and beliefs.
_Modern Definition of Cult and Religion_
Cult ‘“ a secretive group that brainwashes its members into engaging in obscene and harmful practices for the sake of a charismatic leader.
Religion ‘“ see above.

Read more:  Difference Between Cult and Religion | Difference Between | Cult vs Religion http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-cult-and-religion/#ixzz3WeH8wO50


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## QuickSilver (Apr 7, 2015)

Oh alright.. SDA isn't a "cult" in the true definition... but you've got to admit.. a lady claiming to have visions and the gift of prophecy is a tad suspect.. sanity wise. Let alone people who actually believe she did.

Some of the SDA dietary rules almost remind me of keeping kosher.  Pork is a definite no no..  Modern SDAs do eat meat though..  I remember back to when black pepper wasn't allowed as it was though to be an unnatural stimulant.  No coffee or any sort of caffeine either.   THAT in itself makes me suspicious...  lol!!  OK.. debby.. for the record that was a joke..


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## Debby (Apr 7, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> No... I don't believe that people in ancient times had visions either..  I think it was probably some really good vegetation... smoked or chewed.
> 
> Not sure if Ellen was smoking, chewing or scamming... but she certainly didn't talk to God..
> 
> On the other hand...  hallmark signs of classic schizophrenia are visual and auditory hallucinations..  So it doesn't always have to be scamming I guess.



Ellen White was known to have had an accident where she received a blow to the head and after that her visions began.  However, while her visions may have been the result of an accident, they were in no way the source of anything unsavoury or harmful, unlike those of true cults, i.e. Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Heaven's Gate, etc. While I'm not a Christian now, when I was a member of the SDA church, my go-to source for understanding was rarely E.G. White but was restricted to Bible teaching.  Mind you, I do know that many folks in the church do have a strong belief in her writings and particularly as they expand on the Biblical source.


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## Cookie (Apr 7, 2015)

Here is a pretty good page on cults and their characteristics for your perusal, should you have the inclination to read/skim through it.

http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm


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## SifuPhil (Apr 7, 2015)

Cookie said:


> ... Both Cruise and Travolta don't exactly seem like the sharpest knives in the drawer anyway.



Yet, I recall reading something somewhere not too long ago that claimed that intelligent people are MORE easily brainwashed and/or led astray by simple mental magic tricks.

I forgot what the reasoning was but recall it made sense to me at the time.

Maybe I was just brainwashed ...


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## Cookie (Apr 7, 2015)

Phil, I think anyone can get sucked into a cult, not dependent on smart or not.....I've met some very intelligent and equally less than intelligent people who were cult members. 

Smart factor sounds like an interesting concept though and I'd like to know more about it.


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## Warrigal (Apr 7, 2015)

I think many people confuse the words cult and sect.
e.g.

noun: *cult*; plural noun: *cults*
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.
"the cult of St Olaf"

Scientology would fit this definition. Many cults are quite benign. Others are exploitative.


noun: *sect*; plural noun: *sects
*a group of people with somewhat different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong.
Sects sometimes hive off to create new forms of something older.
Christianity began as a sect within Judaism, Methodism as a sect (another word is movement) within the Church of England.

There are sects within Islam such as Wahhabism but ISIS would certainly be a cult.


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## Debby (Apr 7, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Here is a pretty good page on cults and their characteristics for your perusal, should you have the inclination to read/skim through it.
> 
> http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm





Just in giving your link a quick glance, I'd say that many of the 'identifiers' listed could apply to many mainstream churches.


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## Cookie (Apr 7, 2015)

That's right Debbie - what does that tell you?


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## Lon (Apr 7, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I think many religions are glorified cults... Seventh Day Adventist being one.  Jehova's Witness another..



My grand parents on my dad's side were 7th Day Adventist Missionaries in Haiti. Why do you think of them as a cult?
Their hospitals operations at Loma Linda are internationally recognised. Although I don't care for the JW's. What makes them a cult?


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## QuickSilver (Apr 7, 2015)

Lon said:


> My grand parents on my dad's side were 7th Day Adventist Missionaries in Haiti. Why do you think of them as a cult?
> Their hospitals operations at Loma Linda are internationally recognised. Although I don't care for the JW's. What makes them a cult?



I've already had this conversation with Debby upthread..


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## Debby (Apr 7, 2015)

Cookie said:


> That's right Debbie - what does that tell you?




Well it maybe tells me that whomever wrote that web page doesn't like religion.  That's one thing I was wondering about....that your link didn't seem to have any source info.  Like who wrote it, what their mandate is....maybe it was there but I couldn't find it.


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## Cookie (Apr 7, 2015)

Debbie, that information comes from many sources -- organizations and books about cults written by people who have been in them and by people who did the research.  If you are interested and want to do some reading on the subject, you will be able to see how it all fits. Once you are armed with knowledge about these things you can make educated choices.  The key is to think for yourself. Christianity is the biggest cult there is, and all religions basically started out as small cults -- but not all cults are harmful and dangerous -- as long as you have the freedom to make your own choices and are not trapped in it physically or psychologically.

You can google the names in blue print and see what they have on their sites too.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 7, 2015)

Top ten problems with Scientology...http://listverse.com/2007/08/17/top...urce=more&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=direct


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 7, 2015)

This woman was a guest on the Coast show (coasttocoastam.com), here's her interview in a nutshell and a link to a site with people who have escaped the religion/cult.



> Jenna Miscavige Hill, niece of Church of Scientology leader David Miscavige, was raised as a Scientologist but left the controversial religion in 2005. She joined John B. Wells to share her true story of life inside the upper ranks of the sect and her ultimate escape from it.
> 
> Hill's parents were members of the Sea Organization, a secretive military-style order whose members sign billion-year contracts dedicating their lives to the church. Children of executives in the church were known as cadets and sent to special boarding school called The Ranch, she explained.
> 
> ...


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 30, 2016)

Leah Remini's take on Scientology after being in the "church" for 30 years, and leaving it along with her family.


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## fureverywhere (Nov 30, 2016)

It's a cult and Tom Cruise scares me with his enthusiasm, nuff said.


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## Kitties (Nov 30, 2016)

Leah Remini has a show going on this. I'm reading her book now.

The money they take from people is insanity. They break up families. I think other religions can do this. 

Cult.


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## Carla (Dec 1, 2016)

She is a brave woman to break away, that's all she knew from a young girl. Obviously, she didn't fit the mold and dared to question things. Seems like mind control or brainwashing may be involved here. It doesn't fit the definition of a church either.  I'm wondering what ever happened to the leader's wife?

I wouldn't want to criticize someone else's beliefs as long as they cause no harm to anyone. However some of what Leah described really does border upon abuse. Her mother placed the needs of her daughters well behind those of Scientology. That's kind of sad, but I am happy that things did eventually work out for them.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 1, 2016)

If anyone offers you a free E-Meter test, run!


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 1, 2016)

Carla said:


> She is a brave woman to break away, that's all she knew from a young girl. Obviously, she didn't fit the mold and dared to question things. Seems like mind control or brainwashing may be involved here. It doesn't fit the definition of a church either.  I'm wondering what ever happened to the leader's wife?
> 
> I wouldn't want to criticize someone else's beliefs as long as they cause no harm to anyone. However some of what Leah described really does border upon abuse. Her mother placed the needs of her daughters well behind those of Scientology. That's kind of sad, but I am happy that things did eventually work out for them.



I'm glad her family followed her out of there, that says a lot.


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## Warrigal (Dec 1, 2016)

IMO Scientology is both a business and a cult because of its methodologies. 
A business because it is explicitly selling product and a cult because of the control that it exercises over its adherents.


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## Sunny (Sep 24, 2017)

I had forgotten about that earlier discussion, which shows how great my memory is getting to be!  Thanks to all for the info you've provided.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 25, 2017)

As an atheist,  I don't have a horse in this race. What I know about Scientology is what I've seen on TV by Leah Remini. If what she says is true, then Scientology is a  scam. I've found that if you question someone's belief system, they get very hostile. I don't care what you believe as long as your belief does not interfere with my life in any way. For instance, if you believe eating potatoes is somehow against your belief, that doesn't mean I can't eat potatoes.


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## tnthomas (Sep 25, 2017)

Warrigal said:


> IMO Scientology is both a business and a cult because of its methodologies.
> A business because it is explicitly selling product and a cult because of the control that it exercises over its adherents.



Sort of like Apple, except that you don't get a nice shiny computational device.   (Sorry, on a serious note- I concur).


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## AZ Jim (Sep 25, 2017)

Scientology is a con game and the victims are those who buy into it's silly premises.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2017)

tnthomas said:


> Sort of like Apple, except that you don't get a nice shiny computational device.   (Sorry, on a serious note- I concur).



A professor from my _Alma mater_ claims that Apple is indeed a cult ...  




> Robles-Anderson says that, despite  appealing to the individuality of contemporary culture, Apple is,  definitely, a cult. “It’s so obviously a cult,” she tells Atlas Obscura.
> 
> There is a powerful collective  experience that Apple provides, and to understand it, you have to look  no further than its iPhone release days ..."


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