# Interesting article on concerns about the Wuhan laboratory sent by diplomats in 2018



## asp3 (Mar 8, 2021)

I've generally pointed to articles which reported scientists who investigated Covid deciding it's unlikely that the virus was created in a laboratory.  I still tend to give weight to those investigations, but here's a new article about cables sent in 2018 from diplomats concerned about virus research being done in Wuhan.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/diplomats-warned-coronavirus-danger-wuhan-043020270.html

I still believe that the virus was not created to be released, but it's certainly possible that legitimate research on the coronavirus done with lack of protection might have allowed the virus to make the jump from bats to humans.

Anyway this is an interesting data point.  I hope that the we get more information about it in the future.


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## Gaer (Mar 8, 2021)

it's my assertion the virus was intentional and  preplanned by  the Chinese communist  government.


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## Don M. (Mar 8, 2021)

IMO, this virus was part of the Chinese government "experimenting" with the means of conducting Chemical/Biological Warfare at their research site in Wuhan.....and through some sort of error, the virus was released.  We will probably never know the full truth, from this dictator government.  I would like to see the nations of the world beginning to isolate this Chinese regime, via pulling manufacturing out of that country, and refusing to buy Chinese products.  That nation has gotten quite rich by undercutting manufacturing in much of the world, and they deserve to take a major hit to their wallet for causing millions of illnesses and deaths.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 8, 2021)

I could care less how the virus came into being and I wish the entire world would stop worrying about it.  *It does not matter.* It’s here, it’s staying, and it’s now part of our lives, like cancer. I have MDS a very rare red blood cell cancer.

Why did I get it?  How did I get it?  Why wasn’t it diagnosed earlier?  *It doesn’t matter.*  I have it now.  It’s been diagnosed.  I will live with it or die from it.  It is a part of my life as is Covid.  People need to move on, there are better things to do and other things to worry about.  IMO.


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## garyt1957 (Mar 9, 2021)

There was an article awhile back showing a British TV show from 2015 showing Chinese labs working on a virus that could jump from bats to humans. Now, they were supposedly looking for a way to stop that from happening but it shows there were things like that going on in their labs, I don't personally think they deliberately released it, but wouldn't be a bit surprised if it escaped. There also have been notifications of bad security issues from that lab well before the virus. So?


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## garyt1957 (Mar 9, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I could care less how the virus came into being and I wish the entire world would stop worrying about it.  *It does not matter.* It’s here, it’s staying, and it’s now part of our lives, like cancer. I have MDS a very rare red blood cell cancer.
> 
> Why did I get it?  How did I get it?  Why wasn’t it diagnosed earlier?  *It doesn’t matter.*  I have it now.  It’s been diagnosed.  I will live with it or die from it.  It is a part of my life as is Covid.  People need to move on, there are better things to do and other things to worry about.  IMO.


It absolutely matters. Because knowing may stop it from happening again. If scientists knew how and why you got the cancer you have they may be able to keep others from getting it.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 9, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> It absolutely matters. Because knowing may stop it from happening again. If scientists knew how and why you got the cancer you have they may be able to keep others from getting it.


We can not control what other countries do; any efforts to do so have ended in war and dead Americans and dead allies.

There are certain cancers that we know where they come from and there is a vaccine, given to teenagers, to avoid getting that/those cancers.  But lots of teens are not vaccinated.  Same old story, humans are stupid.


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## StarSong (Mar 9, 2021)

Gaer said:


> it's my assertion the virus was intentional and  preplanned by  the Chinese communist  government.


To what end?


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 9, 2021)

StarSong said:


> To what end?


Oh, oh, I can answer that, not speaking for anyone but me, of course.  The Chinese government decided that, since they were ending the one child policy, they needed to make room for more Chinese people.

So they invented the virus, let in loose in their country, and allowed it to kill their own population.  Then they decided to infect the USA by sending the virus to Europe, where Europeans could spread it to the USA.

By doing this, the Chinese could further harm their own country and their own people, because as you know, the people of China hate the people of China.

This really stupid and ridiculous explanation of mine makes as much sense as @Gaer does, IMO.  . @StarSong


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## Gaer (Mar 9, 2021)

Aneeda, I know you're ill but is it necesssary to be so mean?


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 9, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Aneeda, I know you're ill but is it necesssary to be so mean?


I am not being mean.  I disagree with you.  You are not a victim.  Just because I disagree with you does not mean I am mean or you are a victim .  My explanation is as good as your conspiracy theory.

My son‘s significant other is *Chinese.  Born in China with many relatives in China who have died.*

While she used to see her mother and other relatives in California every Christmas, she could not see them this year.  She also visits China to see relatives there, not now of course, and could not attend anyone’s funeral.  And she has relatives come from China and stay with her.  Not now of course.

The continued racism against the Chinese, the continued attacks against the Chinese, the continued conspiracy theories are totally out of line.

*We have the Europe version of the virus.  We have the UK version of the virus.  We do not have the Chinese version.  *It you NEED someone to blame to make yourself feel superior, blame Europe or the UK.  It would be more accurate.  IMO.  @Gaer 

Chinese people are being beaten up and killed because of statements like yours.


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## JonDouglas (Mar 9, 2021)

This sounds like a situation for Occam's Razor coupled with a little common sense applied to a better understanding of "who wants to control what" and "how far will they go" and "what steps will they take to get there".  This is not, however, the type of thinking most do.  I once attended a lecture where a senior govt. type once said something like, "All countries become somewhat predictable as their moves are based on what resources they need and want and what moves will help put or keep the leaders in power."


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## Murrmurr (Mar 9, 2021)

Whether or not the virus escaped or was intentionally released is debatable, but it's clear to me that the Chinese government knows it would be unwise to engage with the US militarily, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out they're working on weaponizing a virus.


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## MarciKS (Mar 9, 2021)

@asp3 so they knew about this crap clear back in 2017 and didn't nip it in the bud then? They put all of us at risk because why??


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## JonDouglas (Mar 9, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Whether or not the virus escaped or was intentionally released is debatable, but it's clear to me that the Chinese government knows it would be unwise to engage with the US militarily, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out they're working on weaponizing a virus.


Oh, it is pretty safe to say that a number of countries, especially China, have been working on virus weapons.  Who  might have released this virus and why is another discussion


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## Gaer (Mar 9, 2021)

I stand behind my words.  This was pre-planned and originated by the Chinese communist government.


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## StarSong (Mar 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Oh, it is pretty safe to say that a number of countries, especially China, have been working on virus weapons.  Who  might have released this virus and why is another discussion


Agreed.  Nevertheless it seems a pretty stupid thing to do if you haven't already vaccinated your own citizens and military against it and all potential mutations.   

If China did this intentionally (which I personally think is highly unlikely because they were massively unprepared for the virus from a PR and medical standpoint), it certainly bit them in the butt plenty hard. 

When all the dust settles, it may well turn out that countries such as the US begin underwriting domestic factories and manufacturing so that we don't find ourselves in a position of dependency again.


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## StarSong (Mar 9, 2021)

Gaer said:


> I stand behind my words.  This was pre-planned and originated by the Chinese communist government.


How do you know this?


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## JonDouglas (Mar 9, 2021)

Gaer said:


> I stand behind my words.  This was pre-planned and originated by the Chinese communist government.


You could be right


StarSong said:


> Agreed.  Nevertheless it seems a pretty stupid thing to do if you haven't already vaccinated your own citizens and military against it and all potential mutations.
> 
> If China did this intentionally (which I personally think is highly unlikely because they were massively unprepared for the virus from a PR and medical standpoint), it certainly bit them in the butt plenty hard.
> 
> When all the dust settles, it may well turn out that countries such as the US begin underwriting domestic factories and manufacturing so that we don't find ourselves in a position of dependency again.


Remember, as crass and inhuman as it seems, China has citizens to burn and probably wouldn't loose much that much sleep over a flu virus running loose.   More than once, countries have used war,  catastrophe or contrived incidents to galvanize their people.


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## Becky1951 (Mar 9, 2021)

Developed intentionally released unintentionally.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Oh, it is pretty safe to say that a number of countries, especially China, have been working on virus weapons.  Who  might have released this virus and why is another discussion


We work on virus weapons as well.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Developed intentionally released unintentionally.


Now this I can agree with until proven otherwise.


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## JonDouglas (Mar 9, 2021)

One interesting picture came to light.  Shown below, one might wonder what little Anthony Fauci was doing in a gathering of big money and media moguls.  Aside from those less-bright who might immediately dive right into some conspiracy theory, the picture does raise some interesting questions.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> You could be right
> 
> Remember, as crass and inhuman as it seems, China has citizens to burn and probably wouldn't loose much that much sleep over a flu virus running loose.   More than once, countries have used war,  catastrophe or contrived incidents to galvanize their people.


You mean like when we invaded a country because they caused 911 and we were looking for weapons of mass destruction and participated in a war and killed lots of people; and then found out we were, you know, wrong.

And when we learned of who was really responsible we turned the other cheek cause of money and oil?  Is that what you mean?  *People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.  IMO.*


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## asp3 (Mar 9, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> @asp3 so they knew about this crap clear back in 2017 and didn't nip it in the bud then? They put all of us at risk because why??



The article only stated that a diplomat was concerned about the level of safety precautions in a laboratory in Wuhan that was doing research on bat viruses.  I don't think they knew about this particular version of the virus.


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## asp3 (Mar 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> One interesting picture came to light.  Shown below, one might wonder what little Anthony Fauci was doing in a gathering of big money and media moguls.  Aside from those less-bright who might immediately dive right into some conspiracy theory, the picture does raise some interesting questions.



What is the context of the picture?  When was it taken, where was it taken and why was it taken?  Was it made public and if so in what publications?


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## Aunt Marg (Mar 9, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Oh, oh, I can answer that, not speaking for anyone but me, of course.  The Chinese government decided that, since they were ending the one child policy, they needed to make room for more Chinese people.
> 
> So they invented the virus, let in loose in their country, and allowed it to kill their own population.  Then they decided to infect the USA by sending the virus to Europe, where Europeans could spread it to the USA.
> 
> ...


Putting others down for their free speech and opinion isn't what I deem as being conducive of healthy forum behaviour.

We all believe what we do, but that doesn't give us the right to add members names to our entries in negative context when the conversation doesn't go our way, or when someone says something that we don't like.


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## Jeweltea (Mar 9, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> @asp3 so they knew about this crap clear back in 2017 and didn't nip it in the bud then? They put all of us at risk because why??


Agree...sounds like the U.S. was informed back in  ve2017 about this but did nothing. Very interesting article.


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## StarSong (Mar 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> One interesting picture came to light.  Shown below, one might wonder what little Anthony Fauci was doing in a gathering of big money and media moguls.  Aside from those less-bright who might immediately dive right into some conspiracy theory, the picture does raise some interesting questions.


When and where was this photo taken?  Context is everything.


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## StarSong (Mar 9, 2021)

Never mind, I found it myself.  The uncropped version shows it was taken at the inaugural event for the Carnegie Medal of Philanthropy 2001.

Everyone can put away their tin foil hats. Apparently there is no conspiracy afoot.


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## JonDouglas (Mar 9, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Never mind, I found it myself.  The uncropped version shows it was taken at the inaugural event for the Carnegie Medal of Philanthropy 2001.
> 
> Everyone can put away their tin foil hats. Apparently there is no conspiracy afoot.


First, nobody said there was a conspiracy afoot.  Second, the interest is in the connections and follow up, not the event.


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## StarSong (Mar 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> First, nobody said there was a conspiracy afoot.  Second, the interest is in the connections and follow up, not the event.


Where is the evidence that their relationships were any more in depth or long lasting than a photograph staged by the Carnegie Foundation?  

I've been photographed in plenty of group shots at events (weddings, reunions, retirement parties, etc.) with people I've never seen before or since. Haven't you?


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## JonDouglas (Mar 9, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Where is the evidence that their relationships were any more in depth or long lasting than a photograph staged by the Carnegie Foundation?
> 
> I've been photographed in plenty of group shots at events (weddings, reunions, retirement parties, etc.) with people I've never seen before or since. Haven't you?


It will, in all probability, become more clear with time.  In that vein, the timeline of Fauci's ongoing contradictions and position shifts are also interesting.  Be assured that COVID messaging is being politically driven.  Look to see who the drivers are.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 9, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Putting others down for their free speech and opinion isn't what I deem as being conducive of healthy forum behaviour.
> 
> We all believe what we do, but that doesn't give us the right to add members names to our entries in negative context when the conversation doesn't go our way, or when someone says something that we don't like.


I suppose when someone says something racist, or something ignorant, or something that encourages violence against other Americans, with no evidence or direct knowledge than a “belief” others should simply smile blankly, look off into the distance, and say why yes, that’s Uncle Bob, he’s always been a bit off.

But I actually have no ideal what you are talking about so perhaps you could be clearer @Aunt Marg?  Because I will be clearer.  Speech that encourages hate *is not acceptable.  It is, in fact, a crime in every state.*

People, of various races, continue to be considered second class citizens when other people put forward false conspiracy theories that are dangerous and can lead to violence.  That’s how a black man, named George, died while lots of folk watched.

That is how bombs went off in Boston.  Or a shooter in Las Vegas.   Or the belief that Hispanics are all rapists.  Or an elderly Chinese man, walking down the street, viciously tackled from behind, knocked into a wall, and died from wounds received because his race is responsible for Covid. 

As so many stupid ignorant racist people claim their freedom of speech while hiding in their houses.

But freedom of speech is freedom of speech and I am free to give my opinion, stand on my soap box, and give my speech.  and I will always object to hate speech.  Always.

You @Aunt Marg and others are free not to read it what I write.  You are free to put me on ignore.    Please, put me on ignore.  But no one is allowed to promote dangerous and hateful speech.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 9, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Never mind, I found it myself.  The uncropped version shows it was taken at the inaugural event for the Carnegie Medal of Philanthropy 2001.
> 
> Everyone can put away their tin foil hats. Apparently there is no conspiracy afoot.


Some people have their tin hats glued to their heads, it keeps the gamma rays out.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> First, nobody said there was a conspiracy afoot.  Second, the interest is in the connections and follow up, not the event.


Ok, what was the follow up and connections?


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 9, 2021)

Don M. said:


> IMO, this virus was part of the Chinese government "experimenting" with the means of conducting Chemical/Biological Warfare at their research site in Wuhan.....and through some sort of error, the virus was released.  We will probably never know the full truth, from this dictator government.  I would like to see the nations of the world beginning to isolate this Chinese regime, via pulling manufacturing out of that country, and refusing to buy Chinese products.  That nation has gotten quite rich by undercutting manufacturing in much of the world, and they deserve to take a major hit to their wallet for causing millions of illnesses and deaths.


So you blame a country instead of the manufactures that fled to China for cheap labor?  You blame the Chinese for the failure of the American government and other governments to act?  You blame the Chinese for the failure of people to follow the science?  WOW


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## asp3 (Mar 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> It will, in all probability, become more clear with time.  In that vein, the timeline of Fauci's ongoing contradictions and position shifts are also interesting.  Be assured that COVID messaging is being politically driven.  Look to see who the drivers are.



How about starting up a thread about Fauci with links to well documented articles from reputable sources that lead you to believe that there is something nefarious about his path and past actions and his relationships with the any, some or all of the people in the photograph you posted?

I'm fairly sure that the thread can be a non-political one because you can post facts about his actions and activity.  That way the rest of us can either become enlightened or share why we disagree with your suspicions.


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## JonDouglas (Mar 9, 2021)

asp3 said:


> How about starting up a thread about Fauci with links to well documented articles from reputable sources that lead you to believe that there is something nefarious about his path and past actions and his relationships with the any, some or all of the people in the photograph you posted?
> 
> I'm fairly sure that the thread can be a non-political one because you can post facts about his actions and activity.  That way the rest of us can either become enlightened or share why we disagree with your suspicions.


In due time, when there's more information.  Waiting until the fog clears is usually a good idea.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 9, 2021)

We were warned about the possibility of biological warfare wreaking havoc many years ago.  So it shouldn't be ruled out.  And don't forget how much gets hidden from the general public by the powers that be. As a health care worker who worked in the communicable disease department, including following HIV cases, I didn't believe the explanation they gave about how HIV came to be and initially spread. I'm not much believing the explanation of how COVID-19 came to be either. Whether it was a lab mistake or done purposely, I don't discount the lab theory @Gaer.


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## Aunt Marg (Mar 9, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> We were warned about the possibility of biological warfare many years ago. As a health care worker who worked in infectious diseases, I didn't believe the explanation they gave about how HIV came to be. I'm not much believing the explanation of how COVID-19 came to be. Whether it was a lab mistake or done purposely, *I don't discount the lab theory* @Gaer.


Add me to your and Gaer's list, OneEyed.


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## asp3 (Mar 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> In due time, when there's more information.  Waiting until the fog clears is usually a good idea.



So are you saying that there isn't enough reputable  information available yet?  If so then why are you satisfied with presenting an opinion publicly where you don't think there is enough information for others to agree with you?


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## garyt1957 (Mar 10, 2021)

StarSong said:


> To what end?


Simple. The Chinese have a stated goal of being the world's super power. This virus has crippled the US, the current super power. We just signed a $1.9 trillion stimulus bill, on top of the other two stimulus bills. We will likely never get out of this debt and that weakens the US dollar to the point of where it may no longer be used as the world's currency, which would be catastrophic to the US.
    The US is the world's biggest economy yet we're due to be supplanted by the Chinese in a certain number of years. The virus and subsequent shutdowns have moved that point up 5-10 years.
    We defeated the Soviet Union without firing a shot by bankrupting them and that's exactly what China is doing to us.
    This would be a darn good movie plot if it weren't actually happening in real life. Now let me say, I don't particularly believe the Chinese did this on purpose (although I certainly wouldn't be shocked to find out it's true) but you asked to what end and I've just given you a perfectly good reason they MIGHT do this.


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## garyt1957 (Mar 10, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I am not being mean.  I disagree with you.  You are not a victim.  Just because I disagree with you does not mean I am mean or you are a victim .  My explanation is as good as your conspiracy theory.
> 
> My son‘s significant other is *Chinese.  Born in China with many relatives in China who have died.*
> 
> ...





StarSong said:


> Agreed.  Nevertheless it seems a pretty stupid thing to do if you haven't already vaccinated your own citizens and military against it and all potential mutations.
> 
> If China did this intentionally (which I personally think is highly unlikely because they were massively unprepared for the virus from a PR and medical standpoint), it certainly bit them in the butt plenty hard.
> 
> When all the dust settles, it may well turn out that countries such as the US begin underwriting domestic factories and manufacturing so that we don't find ourselves in a position of dependency again.


Actually it's genius to do it before you vaccinate you're citizens. The Communist Chinese Party doesn't care one iota about their people. That's been demonstrated many times. They kill people for simply speaking out. Allowing a few people to die with the virus would be a perfect alibi for them. It would be too obvious if it started in China yet no Chinese died. And again, just playing devil's advocate, but it certainly fits.


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## garyt1957 (Mar 10, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> You could be right
> 
> Remember, as crass and inhuman as it seems, China has citizens to burn and probably wouldn't loose much that much sleep over a flu virus running loose.   More than once, countries have used war,  catastrophe or contrived incidents to galvanize their people.


Amen


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## garyt1957 (Mar 10, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> So you blame a country instead of the manufactures that fled to China for cheap labor?  You blame the Chinese for the failure of the American government and other governments to act?  You blame the Chinese for the failure of people to follow the science?  WOW


You're confusing the Communist Party of China with it's actual citizens. The actual people of China are  fine people who would like nothing more than to be free and out from under communist rule. The Party however is evil and will do anything to keep power. Remember Tiananmen Square?


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 10, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> You're confusing the Communist Party of China with it's actual citizens. The actual people of China are  fine people who would like nothing more than to be free and out from under communist rule. The Party however is evil and will do anything to keep power. Remember Tiananmen Square?


I am not confused, but you might be.  You not only assign me a mental state that I don’t have on this issue , but you assume that all the “actual people” of China would like to be free.  People, belonging to the communist party, are ”actual people”.

It might surprise you to learn but not all countries, or people, want the “freedom” of the American way of life.  Many people prefer a more parental ruling system.  The problem with the so called free people of the world is our apparent need to impose our way of life on others.

There are a great many people in China, probably more than anywhere else on the world.  If they wanted to rise up, in mass, against their leaders and over throw the communist party I am sure they would succeed.  Therefore, I conclude the “actual people” are satisfied with the way things are, except like in the USA, for a few malcontents who would like some other form of government.

The status quo in most countries remains the status quo.  When the MAJORITY of the people of a country dislike the leadership they rise up.  World History proves this.  The browning of America has caused a great deal of strife in many racists radical communities.

But the MAJORITY of Americans try to assimilate all populations and people of color.  This wish was expressed in our last election.  Ones political view, no matter what the country, can be viewed as good or evil.

Due to recent events, in the USA, many here view a certain main stream political party as evil.  Remember the Capital and the attempted overthrow?  Some of my more stupid older relatives, who drank deeply of the kool-aid, said they would be fine with having a certain person as a dictator.  WOW, just WOW.

I said to my oldest son, who is very interested in politics and mildly politically active, the recent events really allowed people to understand how *Hilter came to power in Germany.  This must never be allowed to happen again.  *

Just my opinions, of course. I actually like having discussions with you @garyt1957  but I would like it more if you leave out negative personnel comments.  It’s hard, I know.  I sometimes fail to do this as well, but I try really hard not to do it.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 10, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> Amen


Yes the USA has done this many times.  Many foreign wars, many generations of men and some woman lost, because *war is money.*  And money rules us all.


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## Gaer (Mar 10, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Now this I can agree with until proven otherwise.


Shall we rewrite this into a fairy tale to come out with whatever the mind can accept?
Let's leave out the part of why were they developing a covid virus.
Let's leave out the part where the Chinese communist government told them to develop this, because some might think it's racist.
I know!  let's skip to the part where everyone lives happily ever after.


Aneeda72 said:


> I am not confused, but you might be.  You not only assign me a mental state that I don’t have on this issue , but you assume that all the “actual people” of China would like to be free.  People, belonging to the communist party, are ”actual people”.
> 
> It might surprise you to learn but not all countries, or people, want the “freedom” of the American way of life.  Many people prefer a more parental ruling system.  The problem with the so called free people of the world is our apparent need to impose our way of life on others.
> 
> ...


You  are standing up for the Chinese communist party?
*Can you name a time in history when the people who were for censored speech, punished free expression, banned books, and pushed their ideology on others (including cancelling them) were the good guys?
Just curious, because i can't think of one.*


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## Rosemarie (Mar 10, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Shall we rewrite this into a fairy tale to come out with whatever the mind can accept?
> Let's leave out the part of why were they developing a covid virus.
> Let's leave out the part where the Chinese communist government told them to develop this, because some might think it's racist.
> I know!  let's skip to the part where everyone lives happily ever after.
> ...


Funny thing is....that is exactly what is now happening in the Western world with all this 'woke' nonsense.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 10, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> Simple. The Chinese have a stated goal of being the world's super power. This virus has crippled the US, the current super power. We just signed a $1.9 trillion stimulus bill, on top of the other two stimulus bills. We will likely never get out of this debt and that weakens the US dollar to the point of where it may no longer be used as the world's currency, which would be catastrophic to the US.
> The US is the world's biggest economy yet we're due to be supplanted by the Chinese in a certain number of years. The virus and subsequent shutdowns have moved that point up 5-10 years.
> We defeated the Soviet Union without firing a shot by bankrupting them and that's exactly what China is doing to us.
> This would be a darn good movie plot if it weren't actually happening in real life. Now let me say, I don't particularly believe the Chinese did this on purpose (although I certainly wouldn't be shocke to find out it's true) but you asked to what end and I've just given you a perfectly good reason they MIGHT do this.


. The US economy was on the way out long before the virus but let’s blame China for everything.  It is true that China owns a great deal of property in the USA and it would be against their best interest and ours for us to fail.  Plus, we buy so much from them our failure would impact them greatly.

All the PPE was manufactured in China.  I know this because one of my children works for a company that  supplies PPE to our country, plus cleaning supplies.  They could not make the cleaning supplies, for months, because the chemicals came from China.

As for Russia, America may have contributed to the failure of Russia’s economy, which is recovering, but it certainly didn’t completely cause it or defeat Russia.  A country, with a large nuclear arsenal, can never be defeated.  In fact, any country with nuclear weapons can not be defeated.  Although we all could destroy the world.

I am not sure that America has the “worlds biggest economy” or if we ever had the worlds biggest economy.  We are a super power *not because of our economy but because of our nuclear weapons and military might.  China is also a super power, perhaps more super than us in terms of military powers.  I don’t know.*

The US dollar became worthless in the Great Depression.  You could just about burn the stuff to keep you warm.  Our money is worthless now since it is NOT backed by either gold or silver. It is simply printed paper.  We are heavily on debt, but, yes, we can lay that debt off.  Higher taxes.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 10, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Shall we rewrite this into a fairy tale to come out with whatever the mind can accept?
> Let's leave out the part of why were they developing a covid virus.
> Let's leave out the part where the Chinese communist government told them to develop this, because some might think it's racist.
> I know!  let's skip to the part where everyone lives happily ever after.
> ...


You do understand that the USA develops biological agents for biological warfare, yeah, I am sure you realize this.  Every single country capable of developing very bad biological weapons do so.

*The USA was the first country to develop nuclear weapons, tested in the Nevada desert.  We caused the death OF OUR OWN PEOPLE by doing those tests.  You have, I assume, heard of the downwinders.  We are the ONLY, ONLY country to use nuclear weapons.

You do remember what we did to Japan?  Our house is made of glass.*

Show me the order where the Chinese government ordered the creation of this virus?  Show me the order where the virus was purposely released.  It has been established that made up orders by hysterical people are just that-made up.

Those nuclear bombs, which killed innocent men, woman, and children, were dropped by order of the current president of the United Stares.  There are Japanese survivors that still suffer the effects.  There is enough shame for all the countries of the world in what they have done to the other countries of the world.

Perhaps you have forgotten the times when books were banned in the USA, certain movies were banned, free speech is limited here by law, and we *just had an episode were a group of people tried to overturn an election and impose their ideology on OUR country. 

So yes, I can name a country where all this happened, including slavery where black people were not even allowed to read, the United States of America.  You know, us as the good guys.  Lord love a duck.*

More news watching, less kool-aid drinking is the cure, IMO.  

As to your question, do I support the communist party?  *I support the right of any citizen of the USA to join any party of their choice, even the Republican Party.  .   *As I have said, I joined the army as soon as I turned 18, as soon as my husband turned 18 he joined the marines.

Please tell me @Gaer what branch of the service you joined to aid and protect the USA?


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## garyt1957 (Mar 10, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> . The US economy was on the way out long before the virus but let’s blame China for everything.  It is true that China owns a great deal of property in the USA and it would be against their best interest and ours for us to fail.  Plus, we buy so much from them our failure would impact them greatly.
> 
> All the PPE was manufactured in China.  I know this because one of my children works for a company that  supplies PPE to our country, plus cleaning supplies.  They could not make the cleaning supplies, for months, because the chemicals came from China.
> 
> ...


Wow , you are wrong on so many levels. Just the fact that you say you're not sure the US has the world's biggest economy proves to me you're basically clueless and it's not worth holding a discussion with you. I'm out.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 10, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> Wow , you are wrong on so many levels. Just the fact that you say you're not sure the US has the world's biggest economy proves to me you're basically clueless and it's not worth holding a discussion with you. I'm out.


I believe you were “out” before  and you are back to name calling to defend your position.


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## Aneeda72 (Mar 10, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I believe you were “out” before  and you are back to name calling to defend your position.


Edited:  I am not an economist and not terribly interested in who has the largest economy, size does not matter , however I googled it.

USA number 1

China number 2

So what?  Oh, dang it, you left the conversation


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## StarSong (Mar 10, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> In due time, when there's more information.  Waiting until the fog clears is usually a good idea.


5 of the people in this 2001 photo are now deceased, 3 are in their 70s, 5 are in their 80s, and 2 are in their 90s.  Talk about playing the long game.   

Since it's been 20 years since this shot was taken, the fog is likely as clear as it's ever going to be. 

Of course you _could _acknowledge that you were taken in by someone's attempt to besmirch this group by implying nefarious associations based on a quite innocent group shot whose date and context caption was intentionally cropped out. 

Many of us have retracted statements on this forum with apologies for not fully vetting information before passing it along.


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