# Environmental Issues, Kids, Grandkids, and Selfishness



## imp (Jul 20, 2015)

The question of tires being polluters, led me to wonder about just who will be the most affected by today's excesses. It takes years of gradual poisoning to affect folks, given the type of bad stuff, and by the time they are materially affected, it may be time  for them to go, anyway. But, during their tenure, it is the _LEGACY _being built up, which seriously invokes damage farther down the road, beyond their own attrition: the kids and their kids wind up bearing the brunt of environmental and therefore, health damage.

The issue of "Global Warming", for example, hotly contested usually, strong evidence given supporting both yeas and nays, let's say if the detractors happen to be wrong, and the trend continues, some generations from now are going to be disastrously affected.

How should present socially-responsible World Leaders treat this particular issue, for example?    imp


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## Don M. (Jul 20, 2015)

> How should present socially-responsible World Leaders treat this particular issue, for example?    imp



There are so many things potentially impacting future populations, that it is almost impossible to fathom what the world will look like in another 100 years...if not sooner.  Pollution, shifting weather patterns, and probably the most important factor that will have a negative effect all over the planet....Overpopulation.  The UN did a study back in the late 1990's, and came to the conclusion that the maximum sustainable human population would be about 5 billion.  Today, we are at 7 billion, will reach 9 billion by mid century, and could be 12 billion by the year 2200.  That will be simply Unsustainable.  Automation and robotics are taking over more and more good jobs every year.  Over a billion people already have limited access to clean water.  Millions more are already suffering malnutrition.  Wealth is being concentrated in fewer hands.  The list of problems is growing with every passing year.  Every other species on the planet adjusts its birthrate to compensate for existing conditions...humans continue to procreate like there is No Tomorrow....and the largest growth rates are in nations and ethnic groups which are the least likely to be able to adapt.

Expecting world leaders to step up to any of these issues is wishful thinking.  They, like 98% of the rest of the people, are only concerned about that which affects them directly today...and to heck with the future.  Had I been able to see into the future 50 years ago, I would have remained celibate....or kept a supply of condoms with me at all times.  I am afraid that our grandkids and beyond are going to live in a far different world than our generation has enjoyed.


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## Ken N Tx (Jul 21, 2015)

..Discarded tires and condoms and Global Warming in a health Forum!!! Give me a break....


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## oldman (Jul 21, 2015)

Don M. said:


> There are so many things potentially impacting future populations, that it is almost impossible to fathom what the world will look like in another 100 years...if not sooner.  Pollution, shifting weather patterns, and probably the most important factor that will have a negative effect all over the planet....Overpopulation.  The UN did a study back in the late 1990's, and came to the conclusion that the maximum sustainable human population would be about 5 billion.  Today, we are at 7 billion, will reach 9 billion by mid century, and could be 12 billion by the year 2200.  That will be simply Unsustainable.  Automation and robotics are taking over more and more good jobs every year.  Over a billion people already have limited access to clean water.  Millions more are already suffering malnutrition.  Wealth is being concentrated in fewer hands.  The list of problems is growing with every passing year.  Every other species on the planet adjusts its birthrate to compensate for existing conditions...humans continue to procreate like there is No Tomorrow....and the largest growth rates are in nations and ethnic groups which are the least likely to be able to adapt.
> 
> Expecting world leaders to step up to any of these issues is wishful thinking.  They, like 98% of the rest of the people, are only concerned about that which affects them directly today...and to heck with the future.  Had I been able to see into the future 50 years ago, I would have remained celibate....or kept a supply of condoms with me at all times.  I am afraid that our grandkids and beyond are going to live in a far different world than our generation has enjoyed.




Maybe everything that you wrote is true, but wouldn't it be wonderful to be around in another 70-80 years and see the world's changes? I mean, looking back since I was born and the advancements in science and technology has been unbelievable. Some of the stuff that we see today was only seen in comic books at one time, but the dreamers turned those science fiction items into reality. I told my 10 year-old Grandson not long ago that since he is only 10 years old, he has a long time to live and along with that, many changes will take place, not to mention all of the new inventions and advancements of the things that we have today. I think it will be a marvelous world and as for over population, Mother Nature has always taken care of that issue. There may be another war, plague or other rampant disease that will limit the numbers, or maybe mankind will finally wise up and take other necessary steps to slow population growth.

Whatever the world decides to do about over population and global warming will work itself out. I would just like to see what the world will look like in 100 years as I think it will be a very exciting and wonderful place.


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## Don M. (Jul 21, 2015)

> Whatever the world decides to do about over population and global warming will work itself out. I would just like to see what the world will look like in 100 years as I think it will be a very exciting and wonderful place.



I wish I could be as optimistic about the ramifications of rapidly increasing human population.  True, in the past, people were able to adjust to human growth, but in the past 100 years, or so, that growth is going Straight Up.  I think much of this growth can be correlated to the Industrial Revolution...and the "mechanization" of Agriculture.  Suddenly, with the use of machines, farmers could produce much more food, and get it to market much more efficiently.  This, plus better access to good hygiene, and medical care, has allowed the global population to explode in the past century.  However, the advances in technology are making human labor more irrelevant...leading me to wonder how people in the future are going to support themselves decently.  

Look at these charts, and you can see the potential for massive problems looming in the future. 

http://www.subdude-site.com/WebPage...rowth_charts/enviro_worldPopGrowth_charts.htm

There is little doubt in my mind that humans are headed for a major "re-balance"...and not that far into the future.  Natures Laws of "supply and demand" apply to humans, as well as any other species.  All the technology in the world can delay the inevitable for only so long.  A major war, famine, or some new disease, etc., is just a question of time.


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## imp (Jul 21, 2015)

Ken N Tx said:


> View attachment 19707..Discarded tires and condoms and Global Warming in a health Forum!!! Give me a break....



Do not all three affect the health?    imp


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## imp (Jul 21, 2015)

*Civilization Decline*

*"All the technology in the world can delay the inevitable for only so long.  A major war, famine, or some new disease, etc., is just a question of time."



*I am afraid this will get me in trouble with other members, but I think, IMO, he is right. None of us old-timers will get to see the consequences, though. When I was attending UNLV years ago, my Prof. Herb Wells, a Historian of deep knowledge as well as an Engineer, contended that civilization is undoubtedly in decline, though evidence of that does not pour forth.   imp


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## Debby (Jul 29, 2015)

Ken N Tx said:


> View attachment 19707..Discarded tires and condoms and Global Warming in a health Forum!!! Give me a break....




So in other words Ken, you don't think that it's a worthwhile discussion to talk about what kind of future our grandkids will have?


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## Debby (Jul 29, 2015)

imp said:


> *"All the technology in the world can delay the inevitable for only so long.  A major war, famine, or some new disease, etc., is just a question of time."
> 
> 
> 
> *I am afraid this will get me in trouble with other members, but I think, IMO, he is right. None of us old-timers will get to see the consequences, though. When I was attending UNLV years ago, my Prof. Herb Wells, a Historian of deep knowledge as well as an Engineer, contended that civilization is undoubtedly in decline, though evidence of that does not pour forth.   imp




I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that disaster is inevitable.  I'm more inclined to think that civilization stands at a cross road and the 'inevitable' has two faces.  One face shows us a kinder, healthier world.  Now children have more protections that they never had at all decades ago and the same with some animals, women have more rights and protections, we're waking up to our role in climate change as far as our dietary and/or polluting habits go, and we have access to information (including how our governments are 'doing us' big time) like we never had before.  (I know, things could be much better but it's better than it was)

The other face is the one that will see the world/society dribble away in a morass of hunger, thirst, pollution and suffering until we're gone and the planet can begin to heal itself from our not so tender ministrations.  We choose which way we'll go.

As I see it, the only problem is that we seldom choose altruism of any sort over our individual right to do what we want to do or have what we want to have.  Putting things off, giving things up, doing with less.....not exactly strengths in this world.  We seem to be more inclined to immediate gratification.

We find ourselves 'more awake' at the crosswords.....now what do we do since we've arrived here?

On a personal level regarding your initial quote, I have to admit that it took me several months to get over my irritation on hearing that my daughter was pregnant with our first grandchild.  I always hoped that neither of my daughters would be responsible for bringing more lives into a world that I felt was precarious at best, and doomed at worst.


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## Jackie22 (Jul 29, 2015)

Yes, the big worry in all this is for our grandchildren.


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## Ken N Tx (Jul 29, 2015)

Debby said:


> So in other words Ken, you don't think that it's a worthwhile discussion to talk about what kind of future our grandkids will have?



Yes I agree...Just saying the topic is better discussed in another Forum..JMHO


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