# Is society, in general, becoming TOO tolerant?



## debodun (Nov 6, 2015)

It seems to me that people are much more liberal (not necessarily political) than they were 50 years ago. Media and schools keep the drumbeat of being more accepting of other people's lifestyles and origins. Where do you think the line should be drawn? (i.e. child abusers, fatties, people that wear white after summer is over, etc.)?

BTW - this question does not necessarily reflect my stance.


----------



## Warrigal (Nov 6, 2015)

It is a useful skill to be able to imagine oneself in the shoes of another.


----------



## Shalimar (Nov 6, 2015)

Fatties? Oh I yearn for the day when this abusive term is a thing of the past. Even after losing weight, people carry scars for the rest of their lives around the last acceptable prejudice. So hateful.


----------



## hollydolly (Nov 6, 2015)

Trying not to be too pedantic here, or picking unnecessary holes in your topic, I understand the point you're trying to make...but really...do you seriously  think that people are generally becoming more accepting of child abuse?..I think and seriously hope that it's exactly the opposite way  than it was years ago... I believe child abuse of every type was just as endemic if not more so way back in the day than it is today and was almost universally  hidden within families and societies  as a dirty secret  ..so I thank God that today compared to historically, the abuse of children is _not_ tolerated by the vast majority of western society ..


..as an aside...what is this thing about wearing white after Labor day in the USA..I've heard this said on American  TV shows  for years..is that seriously something people don't do..surely not, what is that all supposed to be about?


----------



## Cookie (Nov 6, 2015)

Child abuse is is considered a crime here.

Although many people from the middle east believe in Sharia Law, it is not recognized here. 

We are a tolerant society and wearing white after Labour Day is not only permitted, it is approved of and encouraged here, but we don't call people fatties, not done, uh uh.


----------



## imp (Nov 6, 2015)

Regarding acceptable public garmentry: Upon leaving my birthplace, Midwestern Illinois, and moving to the Mohave Desert area, Las Vegas, I learned that standards requiring, for example, shirt and tie, were relaxed considerably, due to the extreme climate difference. imp


----------



## tnthomas (Nov 6, 2015)

I think that tolerance is desirable, but as with enlightenment is not a native human quality and must be nurtured carefully if the world ends up being plunged into a zombie apocalypse.

The abuse of Tort law by those in the legal profession is what is really destroying society.


----------



## mitchezz (Nov 6, 2015)

debodun said:


> It seems to me that people are much more liberal (not necessarily political) than they were 50 years ago. Media and schools keep the drumbeat of being more accepting of other people's lifestyles and origins. Where do you think the line should be drawn? (i.e. child abusers, fatties, people that wear white after summer is over, etc.)?
> 
> BTW - this question does not necessarily reflect my stance.




I'm confused about what you mean about "origins"......bit hard to control your birthplace or family!

I take it you're slim?


----------



## The Inspector (Nov 6, 2015)

I think the confusion comes because some people think in dogmatic terms.

If we think in terms of compassion it's not so confusing. I had little compassion for people who hurt other people.

Jesus had compassion for the women, so she was not stoned, which was the dogma of the time.

That would have been very confusing to the people of that time.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Nov 6, 2015)

debodun said:


> It seems to me that people are much more liberal (not necessarily political) than they were 50 years ago. Media and schools keep the drumbeat of being more accepting of other people's lifestyles and origins. Where do you think the line should be drawn? (i.e. child abusers, fatties, people that wear white after summer is over, etc.)?
> 
> BTW - this question does not necessarily reflect my stance.



Debodun, as far as I'm concerned we can never be _too _tolerant of our fellow man, do we have the right to judge what is and what isn't tolerable?  People have the right and privilege to choose whatever lifestyle suits them, and as already mentioned, they have no control over their origins, but how many of us would be so high and mighty as to decide if we were going to tolerate someone or not because of where they were born?  

The only people who should not be tolerated in this society, IMO, are people who abuse others or their property.  Child abusers would definitely fall into that category, and I don't know of anyone who tolerates those who abuse babies or children.  People like that are scum, and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law (or worse).

Fatties?  Firstly, just using that term shows disrespect and intolerance to those who either by choice, uncontrolled situations or medical condition are overweight.  If being liberal makes people treat others of all sizes, shapes or colors equally, than liberal is a very good thing and we should all adopt that mindset.   Again, we can never be too tolerant in this respect.

Not tolerating people who wear white after summer is an old belief that should be buried with the ones who created that snobbish standard, I never paid much mind to "rules" like these.



> While no one is completely sure exactly when or why this fashion rule came into effect, our best guess is that it had to do with snobbery in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
> 
> The wives of the super-rich ruled high society with an iron fist after the Civil War. As more and more people became millionaires, though, it was difficult to tell the difference between old money, respectable families, and those who only had vulgar new money.
> 
> ...


----------



## mitchezz (Nov 6, 2015)

What Seabreeze said ^.

It really irritates me that there are actually fashion "rules". Maybe it's because I'm getting older but the only rule I follow is the comfort rule.....especially with shoes. Don't get me wrong I like nice clothes but I wear what I like and not what some out of touch with the real world fashionista tells me to wear. We recently had the Melbourne Cup which is a huge social and fashion event and I had to turn the telly off as we were bombarded with segments such as Fashion from the Field and Ladies Day Fashions. Just lots of wannabees trying to outdo each other with the most ridiculous hats and fascinators.......sets my teeth on edge.


----------



## Warrigal (Nov 6, 2015)

Mine too


----------



## fureverywhere (Nov 6, 2015)

> It really irritates me that there are actually fashion "rules". Maybe it's because I'm getting older but the only rule I follow is the comfort rule.....especially with shoes. Don't get me wrong I like nice clothes but I wear what I like and not what some out of touch with the real world fashionista tells me to wear. We recently had the Melbourne Cup which is a huge social and fashion event and I had to turn the telly off as we were bombarded with segments such as Fashion from the Field and Ladies Day Fashions. Just lots of wannabees trying to outdo each other with the most ridiculous hats and fascinators.......sets my teeth on edge.



I just picked up a used book on fashion. Yes I saw myself in it...pants with no butt, shirts with no boob at all, makeup and jewelry rarely...WAIT I haven't jumped on the ice floe yet...I'm starting an overhaul, I feel old, but crap I'm not dead yet!


----------



## SifuPhil (Nov 6, 2015)

The whole "no white after Labor Day" thing came about in the early 20th century. The well-to-do would flock to the beach resorts after Memorial Day and naturally change their dark, somber clothing for lighter, breezier wear. 

At the end of the "season" they'd toss their whites and go back to their funeral clothing.

Dress codes during that time were strictly observed, so that's where you get the "no white after Labor Day".


----------



## chic (Nov 7, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> Trying not to be too pedantic here, or picking unnecessary holes in your topic, I understand the point you're trying to make...but really...do you seriously think that people are generally becoming more accepting of child abuse?..I think and seriously hope that it's exactly the opposite way than it was years ago... I believe child abuse of every type was just as endemic if not more so way back in the day than it is today and was almost universally hidden within families and societies as a dirty secret ..so I thank God that today compared to historically, the abuse of children is _not_ tolerated by the vast majority of western society ..
> 
> 
> ..as an aside...what is this thing about wearing white after Labor day in the USA..I've heard this said on American TV shows for years..is that seriously something people don't do..surely not, what is that all supposed to be about?



I agree about child abuse and would add animal rights to that too. I'm glad we've moved forward and no longer tolerate either child or animal abusers.

As for wearing white after labor day?? LOL. I wore white yesterday Nov. 6. Where I live 70 degree weather is almost unheard of at this time of year so it's a pleasure to celebrate nature's unexpected gift when it comes. I wore sandals and toenail polish too. Maybe this is an "American" thing, but why not. I enjoy white in winter. Wearing black for 7 or 8 cold months in a row can make people depressed. So I embrace my white wardrobe and all occasions that present themselves to wear it. 

Forgive me if this is way off topic. This is a serious question. I think the world is more tolerant of some things like religious freedoms which is good and less tolerant of all forms of abuse which is also a good thing. It's good too that the mentally ill and depressed are better understood than before when all mental illness qualified people for institutionalization. Suicide is better understood and these people and their families are no longer further punished by churches by being refused burial on consecrated ground. We've made some good progress as a species I think. I hope.


----------



## Warrigal (Nov 7, 2015)

I think we have too, Chic, although sometimes it feels like two steps forward and one step back.


----------



## hollydolly (Nov 7, 2015)

Thanks Phil, I've always wondered about the white thing, and strangely it's never entered my head to google the answer either, so finally now I know the answer.

Chic also with regard to the white, people here definitely wear white whenever they feel like it, although a man wearing a white linen suit in the lashing rain might have heads turning ..but of course you should be able to wear white whenever you like, and enjoy...perhaps if Marie Antoinette had been American she would have said ''let them wear white''..


----------



## Laurie (Nov 7, 2015)

I'm no prude (I'm a forty year vet!) but I think tolerance in certain areas has gone too far.

In my living room I hear language that my son also a vet, has never heard  me use, and I see more flesh on the High Street than I do in my bedroom.

Some people have more ****** partners in a week than I've had in a lifetime (, no, that's not jealousy),   and all in all I think people go on too much about their rights instead of their obligations.


----------



## hollydolly (Nov 7, 2015)

Yep in many ways I couldn't agree more Laurie..


----------



## mitchezz (Nov 7, 2015)

While there's many aspects of behaviour that I don't agree with my attitude is as long as it doesn't hurt or interfere with other's safety or enjoyment of life I turn a blind eye.  Too many people have too much interest in other people's bedrooms and lives. Live and let live.


----------



## SifuPhil (Nov 7, 2015)

Laurie said:


> ...   and all in all I think people go on too much about their rights instead of their obligations.



Quoted for truth.


----------



## SifuPhil (Nov 7, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> While there's many aspects of behaviour that I don't agree with my attitude is as long as it doesn't hurt or interfere with other's safety or enjoyment of life I turn a blind eye.  Too many people have too much interest in other people's bedrooms and lives. Live and let live.



That's it.

As the old saying goes, "And it harm ye none, do what thou whilst".


----------



## debodun (Nov 7, 2015)

I didn't mean for people to get in a debate over specific the examples I cited. They are just that - examples, from the serious to the ridiculous. Just a gamut. I was looking for a general consensus.


----------



## Ameriscot (Nov 7, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> That's it.
> 
> As the old saying goes, "And it harm ye none, do what thou whilst".



Didn't know you were Pagan, Phil.  That's their motto.


----------



## mitchezz (Nov 7, 2015)

debodun said:


> I didn't mean for people to get in a debate over specific the examples I cited. They are just that - examples, from the serious to the ridiculous. Just a gamut. I was looking for a general consensus.



Consensus? Man did you come to the wrong place .Just sayin'.


----------



## Jackie22 (Nov 7, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> While there's many aspects of behaviour that I don't agree with my attitude is as long as it doesn't hurt or interfere with other's safety or enjoyment of life I turn a blind eye.  Too many people have too much interest in other people's bedrooms and lives. Live and let live.



....my thoughts also.


----------



## WhatInThe (Nov 7, 2015)

No one seems to want to take responsibility for their actions frequently using phrases like "I had to do it because" when in fact they voluntarily chose to do it. The victim card seems to come out pretty fast even from those who shouldn't be playing it. Everyone thinks they are entitled to the celebrity rehab tour.


----------



## SifuPhil (Nov 7, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Didn't know you were Pagan, Phil.  That's their motto.



I am many things.


----------



## The Inspector (Nov 7, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> While there's many aspects of behaviour that I don't agree with my attitude is as long as it doesn't hurt or interfere with others safety or enjoyment of life I turn a blind eye. Too many people have too much interest in other people's bedrooms and lives. Live and let live.




Not sure why religions got in to the bedroom in such a big way. I feel integrity is important. People should just try and not hurt one and other. Other wise don't sweat the small stuff.


----------



## AprilT (Nov 7, 2015)

Can't lie I grew up a slave to the no white and other such binders and still struggle with a few, out of habit.  What can I say I also worked in the fashion industry for quite some time. Not proud of the it, nor completely  ashamed just the way I was brought up to view clothing for a time. Definitely not the most important thing on my agenda these days to worry over though.  Living in Florida I sometimes toss all clothing rules to the wind.  Except white shoes, not even all that fond of white shoes. layful:


----------



## SifuPhil (Nov 7, 2015)

I went through a white-shoe phase in high school - white foam stacks. They had a 3" foam heel ("marshmallows". we called them) that allowed me to bounce all around town.

I'm not proud of that phase, but it was what it was for the times. 

And ... whenever it rained those suckers were slippery as all get-out!


----------



## Cookie (Nov 7, 2015)

White clothes and shoes (after labour day?)


----------



## AprilT (Nov 7, 2015)

Those two were unconventional in most everything they did.  However, in present day, white has become more acceptable as a fashion statement.  There isn't a rule about it so much anymore, just some people have old habits, but, too likely you won't see as many people stepping out in a pair of white shoes, just not something that is common yesteryear or today for whatever reason.  So where white head to toe if one wants no hard fast rule, no rule at all these days, where what you want wear shorts in the snow, parkas and snowboots  in the summer


----------



## SifuPhil (Nov 7, 2015)

Whenever "white clothing" is mentioned I always think of both John Travolta and Pat Boone.

I have some strange dreams ...


----------



## Shalimar (Nov 7, 2015)

Eeek. Philly.


----------



## debodun (Nov 11, 2015)

Or Elvis...


----------



## Underock1 (Nov 11, 2015)

I think we are doing just fine. We've had a few thousand years of "You can't do that, I don't like the way you look, and you're not one of _us_! I think a little redress is in order. As an 80 plusser, I remember the really old "good old days". They weren't. Other than being poor, I was lucky to be born into the acceptable class, but I was aware of all of the injustice and cruelty even as a kid.

I always cringed when they played the hit tune "I don't want her. You can have her. She's too fat for me!" How cruel was that for all those little fat girls out there when they played that! Not funny!

I remember men always wore straw hats and white "Palm Beach" suits July 1st to Sept 1st. Part of it made sense. There was no air conditioning and the light, white material was a plus in the Summer. The rituals extended to the house. The carpet was picked up, beaten and stored, and braided rugs were put down for the Summer. Very hard on a little kids knees! Some of it had to do with dirt. Coal was burnt and soot was everywhere.

If you live in the US, fat is not the "last acceptable prejudice". Try being a non-believer. Although the most rapidly growing group according to all of the religious polls, Atheists are still the most hated group in the country and can not legally run for office in a number of states.

Not there yet, but I like where we are going. Not time to hit the brakes.


----------



## 911 (Nov 11, 2015)

debodun said:


> It seems to me that people are much more liberal (not necessarily political) than they were 50 years ago. Media and schools keep the drumbeat of being more accepting of other people's lifestyles and origins. Where do you think the line should be drawn? (i.e. child abusers, fatties, people that wear white after summer is over, etc.)?
> 
> BTW - this question does not necessarily reflect my stance.



To answer your question my answer is "yes." The foul language that is used today by most all ages has in my opinion, gone too far. It gripes me to no end to watch people in the news that live in this country to burn the U.S. flag. I passed by a school yesterday and saw two kids exchange the "number 1" sign to each other (and it's just not kids that do this) while shouting obscenities at each other, too many gun permits being issued for even the slightest of reason and I have several more, but yes, I do believe we have become more tolerant and with state and federal courts interpreting the constitution to their liking makes tolerance even more likely to continue to happen. 

I remember back when I started out as a rookie Trooper for the PA State Police, I was called to a playground by a homeowner that lived next door to it. His complaint was that the boys on the basketball court were yelling "F" bombs at each other and it was so loud that his wife and him would not sit out on the front porch. I addressed the situation with the boys and afterwards everything went well. In today's world, even with a sign posted stating, Vulgar language will not be tolerated" depending on the community's statutes, there may be nothing a police office can do to quash it.


----------



## AZ Jim (Nov 11, 2015)

Words don't cause bodily harm.  They are just words.


----------



## 911 (Nov 11, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Words don't cause bodily harm.  They are just words.



Gee, Jim, did you think of that all by yourself? I have investigated numerous assaults and batteries that started out with only words being said. You need to walk a mile in my shoes and find out what can happen when people say the wrong words to the the wrong person.

OK, Jim, you may have the last word.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Nov 11, 2015)

911 said:


> To answer your question my answer is "yes." The foul language that is used today by most all ages has in my opinion, gone too far. It gripes me to no end to watch people in the news that live in this country to burn the U.S. flag. I passed by a school yesterday and saw two kids exchange the "number 1" sign to each other (and it's just not kids that do this) while shouting obscenities at each other, too many gun permits being issued for even the slightest of reason and I have several more, but yes, I do believe we have become more tolerant and with state and federal courts interpreting the constitution to their liking makes tolerance even more likely to continue to happen.
> 
> I remember back when I started out as a rookie Trooper for the PA State Police, I was called to a playground by a homeowner that lived next door to it. His complaint was that the boys on the basketball court were yelling "F" bombs at each other and it was so loud that his wife and him would not sit out on the front porch. I addressed the situation with the boys and afterwards everything went well. In today's world, even with a sign posted stating, Vulgar language will not be tolerated" depending on the community's statutes, there may be nothing a police office can do to quash it.



Cursing in public is protected by Freedom of Speech, unless the profanity is used in statements to incite a riot or instigate fighting.  That's the way I understand it.  Also people flipping each other the bird is very commonplace, has been for years, I don't read too much into either of these things.

I can't believe somebody called the cops to a playground because the F bomb was being thrown back and forth, that's a chance you take living next to a schoolyard or playground, it's nice that you were able to talk to the boys though and get some results, even if temporarily.  Even back in the day, I remember older kids playing and using foul language and hand gestures, also graffiti on the walls of schools and other buildings.  Those growing up in a big city are used to these things, and don't overreact or blow them out of proportion.

Now, in a place of work or in the classroom, etc., I believe it is the right of the persons in charge to set the rules regarding conduct and vulgarity.


----------



## Debby (Nov 11, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> Debodun, as far as I'm concerned we can never be _too _tolerant of our fellow man, do we have the right to judge what is and what isn't tolerable?  People have the right and privilege to choose whatever lifestyle suits them, and as already mentioned, they have no control over their origins, but how many of us would be so high and mighty as to decide if we were going to tolerate someone or not because of where they were born?
> 
> The only people who should not be tolerated in this society, IMO, are people who abuse others or their property.  Child abusers would definitely fall into that category, and I don't know of anyone who tolerates those who abuse babies or children.  People like that are scum, and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law (or worse).
> 
> ...





You said it for me SeaBreeze!


----------



## Debby (Nov 11, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> Consensus? Man did you come to the wrong place .Just sayin'.




Don't you think a general consensus even here would basically be, as long as you harm no one else by your activities, then it's okay but the minute you hurt or frighten another, STOP!  It's no longer fine!


----------



## Misty (Nov 11, 2015)

In this article at lawyers.com:

*Obscenity Is Not Protected*


Obscenity is an exception to the First Amendment, which protects  freedom of speech. If you shout vulgarities from your front porch for  the whole neighborhood to hear, the authorities will probably charge you  with disrupting the peace, and the First Amendment won't protect you.  Your behavior would be offensive to a reasonable person, and it would  have no value to society. The obscenity exception gets complicated when  applied to the arts, because art benefits society. Whether a work of art  is offensive can be a matter of individual taste.

In 1942, the U.S. Supreme Court added "incitement" to the list of things  not covered by freedom of speech. "Fighting words" are against the law  and not protected. You can't abuse someone verbally, or use words to  rile a crowd into doing something illegal. Law enforcement can  criminally charge you for your conduct, and you wouldn't be able to  claim that you were exercising your constitutional rights.

In our city, it's against the law to yell obscenities at other's. Also words do hurt other's, as in mental cruelty that happens in some marriages, such as constantly demeaning a wife or husband and can be as harmful to a wife or husband as physical abuse. 

http://civil-rights.lawyers.com/civil-liberties/its-ok-to-speak-your-mind-but-dont-hurt-anyone.html


----------



## Debby (Nov 11, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I went through a white-shoe phase in high school - white foam stacks. They had a 3" foam heel ("marshmallows". we called them) that allowed me to bounce all around town.
> 
> I'm not proud of that phase, but it was what it was for the times.
> 
> And ... whenever it rained those suckers were slippery as all get-out!




Do you ever look at some young folks who are dressed outlandishly (in your opinion anyway) and smile, knowing that one day they will be looking through a photo array and see themselves and flinch and cringe when they get reminded of how 'cool' they thought they were?  I do it all the time because we've all been there and done that. 

Young people, so silly with their(our) inflated egos that's the hallmark of youth.


----------



## AZ Jim (Nov 11, 2015)

911 said:


> Gee, Jim, did you think of that all by yourself? I have investigated numerous assaults and batteries that started out with only words being said. You need to walk a mile in my shoes and find out what can happen when people say the wrong words to the the wrong person.
> 
> OK, Jim, you may have the last word.


No I didn't think of it all by myself.  I had a team of 10 state troopers in my think tank helping me.


----------



## Shalimar (Nov 11, 2015)

Hmmm. In my opinion silly inflated egos can be found at any age.


----------



## AZ Jim (Nov 11, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Hmmm. In my opinion silly inflated egos can be found at any age.


I have to agree with that.


----------



## imp (Nov 11, 2015)

*"I can't believe somebody called the cops to a playground because the F bomb was being thrown back and forth, that's a chance you take living next to a schoolyard or playground"

*Where I grew up, older folks seemed quite tolerant, I think mainly due to fear, more than anything else. Those folks calling the cops over vulgarities used would have come home from shopping to find room to expand the schoolgrounds. 

That's how Suburban Chicago was. Sorry, QS. Your neighborhood was not in Cicero, or Berwyn.   imp


----------



## Warrigal (Nov 11, 2015)

Well, as a retired school teacher, if I am on a train and some people are swearing at the top of their voices nearby, I use my teacher voice to tell them to lower their voices because the rest of us aren't appreciating the conversation. I find that it works.


----------



## Misty (Nov 11, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> Well, as a retired school teacher, if I am on a train and some people are swearing at the top of their voices nearby, I use my teacher voice to tell them to lower their voices because the rest of us aren't appreciating the conversation. I find that it works.



Good for you, Warrigal!


----------



## Linda (Nov 11, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Whenever "white clothing" is mentioned I always think of both John Travolta and Pat Boone.
> 
> I have some strange dreams ...


Remember Pat Boone's "A White Sport Coat" ??  That was a cool song.   John Travolta and Elvis could wear white any season as far as I'm concerned. layful:


----------



## Shalimar (Nov 11, 2015)

Hey, I rock metallic gold cowboy boots, and purple velvet doc martens,  so white clothes in winter is a no brainer. Lolololol.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Nov 11, 2015)

We have to acknowledge, whether we like it or not, such words are used in everyday conversation by some people, and not necessarily in a hostile way.  I've used questionable verbs and adjectives myself, but I would always watch my language in public, around my elders or children.  Like Warrigal said, if I was on a public train, my voice would be low if using any words that may offend others.


----------

