# Racism and Racists



## Mike (Jan 23, 2022)

Before anybody jumps on this, let me tell you that I was
brought up for some years in India, when I was young,
all my friends were the local village children and I spoke
their language, as far as I am concerned I am "Colour Blind",
when it comes to people, we are all humans.

Back to racism, I have noticed here in the UK, more specifically,
in England, that all or most accusations of racial abuse are aimed
a white people, by Asian or Black people, very few go the other
way and I have wondered why, is it revenge against a bad boss,
or is it envy against a rich man, or is it because we here are all
a bit soft towards others, this has intrigued me for some time.

Am I completely out of order, or not looking deep enough, I am
aware that I don't know too much about the reasons for this
imbalance.

Is it the same in your Country?

Mike.


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## Bellbird (Jan 23, 2022)

Like yourself the colour of a person makes no difference to me. Injustices have been caused by many races throughout . In many cases it was tribe against tribe for many centuries, there is still the them and us attitude amongst many.
  Racism exists amongst many races if not all.
   Employing workers from different countries soon brings out the racism in most by them refusing to work with other 'coloured', black,white yellow or whatever.


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## Tish (Jan 23, 2022)

We do have a deep undercurrent of Racism here.
I like you am also colour/religion and Race blind, but I believe that one of the main reasons we have it over here is because the different races have all cumulated into one particular area, rather than integrate with the general population and unfortunately have brought their hate culture of other races with them.

I think one of the worst demonstrations of racism was the Cronulla riots in 2005.
It was really disgusting and deeply disturbing.

Pre-dating all of that of course was the genocide against our first Australian after the colonization.


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## JimBob1952 (Jan 23, 2022)

I come from a position of ignorance.  I don't know any black people personally and have no day to day interaction with black people.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 23, 2022)

IMO we've lost touch with the definition/meaning of racism.

The term is too often used as a convenient way to shout down or explain away what is, in reality, an individual's actions towards others.

I've been accused of being a racist here at SF and in other places, but my opinions are based solely on a person's behavior towards me and as a member of society.

IMO it's not possible to have a constructive discussion about race in America without getting bogged down by our past.

_"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."_ - Martin Luther King Jr


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## Sassycakes (Jan 23, 2022)

I was raised by parents that never cared about a person's color. And were never racists. I raised my children the same way. My Grandson is living in a house he bought and his black girlfriend lives with him and I Love her. My husband and I have good friends of all different races.


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## Don M. (Jan 23, 2022)

"Racism" has probably been part of the human experiences since the day when a Cro-Magnon first met a Neanderthal.  Every race and ethnicity feels, deep down, that they are superior...no matter what they say/do publicly.  There are good people in every race, and some who are totally worthless. 

"Racism" has become a heated topic, once again, since the George Floyd incident, but about the Only thing that has changed in the past couple of years is the number of Blacks who have landed jobs appearing in TV commercials....as companies seek to portray themselves as being  "politically correct".


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## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

I think we overuse the term racist.  It devalues the word...  There is real racism, but calling too many people or things racist makes the real problem harder to identify.  


Mike said:


> all or most accusations of racial abuse are aimed
> a white people, by Asian or Black people, very few go the other
> way and I have wondered why


All people are capable of racism, unfortunately it is "color blind".  However we tend to use the term more often on the majority, or those in power.  Their racism is more likely to injure.  Anyway that's my guess as to why.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jan 24, 2022)

There's isn't anything that won't cause some humans from calling other humans, "them". If "them" has some identifiable characteristic, then it's easier to identify "them". Since "them" aren't us, there's no reason why we should treat "them", like we treat us.
The only racism I'm qualified to discuss is here in the US. Being white, I can say I've never been a victim of racism-DUH!!! I may not spit on black people that I see. Yet, if I believe that blacks are stupid, drug dealing, criminal low lifes, do you really think I'm going to treat "them" like I would treat whites (us)? Do I believe if the US was75% black, would the situation be reversed? Damn right-were all human. We've has 250,000 years of running around the woods in small packs, and only a few thousand years of being "civilized", we have a lot of growing up to do.


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## Gary O' (Jan 24, 2022)

Racist?

I still don't really know what that is.

Haters?

I do know some haters
In jail, mostly

I don't hate anybody, but..... I do have some prejudice in me
Maybe hate (?)

I learned to hate bread of color
Early on
Ever since Connie Ekert showed me her white *Wonder bread*
It was slathered in *Sunny Jim* peanut butter
all shiny, glistening in the sun

Asked for a bite

She gave me a small corner

It.....was......*Wonderful!*

I could feel it build my body 12 ways

Back home, we had ol' brown bread

My lady mostly cured me of that hate by baking whole wheat bread

....but, still...down deep inside.......


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## Murrmurr (Jan 24, 2022)

I live in an area of Sacramento where violent territorial disputes are going on all the time between 4 factions, Whites, Blacks, Chinese, and Vietnamese. Occasionally those disputes get deadly. Not all the people of those races are in this fight, though. Just estimating, I'd say a good 40% who live in this area don't judge others by race.

Right here in my own apartment complex, the Blacks outnumber the Whites by quite a margin but most of us coexist quite peacefully with no racial tension whatsoever. However, an elderly Vietnamese woman who lived in the apartment complex directly across from me was treated horribly by both Black and White children; older kids from about age 8 to 12. One day I had to go stop a bunch of them from throwing rocks at her, and helped her go file a formal complaint with the manager (she didn't speak English), but it didn't stop. This was strictly racial. She was a sweet lady who kept to herself and never bothered anyone. We used to have tea together, and she'd bring me traditional food and sing traditional prayers to me on Tet; her New Years Day. Her son came to visit her a couple times a month, and he and I got along really well. I'd tell him about stuff the kids did to her and, ultimately, he found her another place to live, cuz there was no solving it.

Anyway, yes, I see racism here, as much from one race as another.


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## rgp (Jan 24, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I think we overuse the term racist.  It devalues the word...  There is real racism, but calling too many people or things racist makes the real problem harder to identify.
> 
> All people are capable of racism, unfortunately it is "color blind".  However we tend to use the term more often on the majority, or those in power.  Their racism is more likely to injure.  Anyway that's my guess as to why.




    I agree here, and I'll add.

   If racism is just a matter of not liking certain  people ..... then there is nothing wrong with that. IMO, it is only human to gravitate towards those we like & shy away from/ignore, those that we do not like. And we are entitled to justify the reason to ourselves without the approval of others. 

  Now if our dislike goes beyond just not liking and turns physical / confrontational etc. That takes it to a whole other level ..... And just should not exist. 

  The earth is large enough that we should be able to live on it/share it ......... without breaking into a chorus of kum-ba-ya.


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## Paco Dennis (Jan 24, 2022)

As far as I can tell the feud goes back and forth depending on circumstances. Each "race" has a portion of their population that hates other races. White on Black..Black on White, Brown on Black...Black on Brown,  Yellow...on White...White on Yellow, Red on White...White on Red, etc.... I feel like the Whites hate more than the other races.


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## Paco Dennis (Jan 24, 2022)

rgp said:


> I agree here, and I'll add.
> 
> *If racism is just a matter of not liking certain  people ..... then there is nothing wrong with that. *IMO, it is only human to gravitate towards those we like & shy away from/ignore, those that we do not like. And we are entitled to justify the reason to ourselves without the approval of others.
> 
> ...


  Because of the color of their skin?


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## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> As far as I can tell the feud goes back and forth depending on circumstances. Each "race" has a portion of their population that hates other races. White on Black..Black on White, Brown on Black...Black on Brown,  Yellow...on White...White on Yellow, Red on White...White on Red, etc.... I feel like the Whites hate more than the other races.


I've even heard of Black being prejudice against other blacks.. because of the shade of their skin or  as with South Asians, prejudice against Caste , and they suffer from the effects of prejudice and racism in just the same manner and sometimes worse than  if it was coming from another race..


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## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> I feel like the Whites hate more than the other races.


Why do you think that?  Not challenging you, just curious.


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## Paco Dennis (Jan 24, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Why do you think that?  Not challenging you, just curious.


  Because God is white, thus white privilege.


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## rgp (Jan 24, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Because of the color of their skin?




   Speaking only for myself .... because of the color/content of their attitude.

   But if for others it is a matter of skin color ? That is their reasoning & that is their right ....


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## Jeni (Jan 24, 2022)

I agree with posters above ... the term racist is way overused and frankly lost meaning....

It is OK to dislike some people and most of the time that is based on character........... not a skin color.....or group. 
Too many have taken this way too far and now accuse anyone and everyone of racism just because it gets a reaction.


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## rgp (Jan 24, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Because God is white, thus white privilege.


 
 How do we know god is white ? Ever seen him ?


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## Paco Dennis (Jan 24, 2022)

rgp said:


> How do we know god is white ? Ever seen him ?


Not in the flesh...just a lot of pictures of HIM.


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## JaniceM (Jan 24, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Not in the flesh...just a lot of pictures of HIM.


Where do you think the pictures came from???


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## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Where do you think the pictures came from???


Kodak ? ............,,,,..sorry couldn't help myself...


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## Geezerette (Jan 24, 2022)

I had a situation late last year where I liked a hair stylist’s work on me once, but the second time was a mess in many ways. It was a ticklish situation  because she was the only African American working in the shop. I wouldn’t dare say anything critical or ask for a different stylist the next time because they’d think I was being racist.  Very awkward. So I had to “vote with my feet” and find different shop.
I was raised in a quite diverse environment; people worked together, went to school together & got along.


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## Remy (Jan 24, 2022)

I think the term has been weaponized. Just like "transphobic" etc or other "phobic" Are there ignorant and dangerous racists out there. Absolutely.

It can be used against people though. A really good boss I had about 15 years ago told me this story. She gave an employee a disciplinary write up and was immediately accused of writing this woman up because she was racist toward "Asians." My boss said she said nothing and just let it go. The woman made formal complaints, that were obviously taken seriously and the department of justice showed up at the door of her home with papers. Her husband answered the door. The case was immediately dropped. One guess?


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## Pepper (Jan 24, 2022)

Husband was asian? @Remy


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## Jeni (Jan 24, 2022)

Geezerette said:


> I had a situation late last year where I liked a hair stylist’s work on me once, but the second time was a mess in many ways. It was a ticklish situation  because she was the only African American working in the shop. I wouldn’t dare say anything critical or ask for a different stylist the next time because they’d think I was being racist.  Very awkward. So I had to “vote with my feet” and find different shop.
> I was raised in a quite diverse environment; people worked together, went to school together & got along.


This is a good example of why the over use has become a problem ... if the stylist was white  i am assuming you would have no trouble expressing your thoughts.

Happened to a neighbor recently she walks everyday ... recently as she crossed the street to return home .............a  person witnessed this and  thought she crossed because a half block away was a African American man,
The "witness" began a "she is racist" rumor......  until others in neighborhood  pointed out walker  *always *crosses there and ENTERS her front door......
Seriously the person starting the rumor did not even have the class to ADMIT she jumped to a bad conclusion.....


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## Remy (Jan 24, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Husband was asian? @Remy


Yup! Full Japanese. I met him at work. Nice man. But with a simple 4 letter last name that I guess this false accuser didn't recognize as Asian.


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## ElCastor (Jan 24, 2022)

Sigh, race is an issue on which we will never agree. We would like to believe that we are all the same, but we are not. Darwin understood. Look at the Olympics. Blacks dominate running events which demand strength, stamina, and agility. Africans evolved in an environment in which survival, and consequently success in reproduction, depended on athleticism. Dark skin? Protection from a harsh tropical sun. But mid 19th century when  Livingstone visited the area around Lake Victoria he found a brutal civilization without the wheel or a calendar. We are products of an evolution over which we had no control, and
we are not cut from the same cloth. Maybe some day technology will intervene.


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## Paco Dennis (Jan 24, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Where do you think the pictures came from???


From prejudiced people's imagination.


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## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> From prejudiced people's imagination.


..however do you think  the first people to draw images of Jesus..or even God for that matter, even knew that different colours existed.. ?.. were they not drawing God in their own image ?


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## JaniceM (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> ..however do you think  the first people to draw images of Jesus..or even God for that matter, even knew that different colours existed.. ?.. were they not drawing God in their own image ?


Similar to what I was going to say, but you said it first and in more detail.  
Individuals wanted a Lord that looked like themselves.


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## Pepper (Jan 24, 2022)

There was much travel and business going on, even in ancient times.  People saw others who were physically different.  Africa traded to Middle East traded to Asia, to Europe, lots of commerce going on.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 24, 2022)

Racism is real in this country, particularly against people of color. The seeds go so deep and is so systemic that it would take a book to detail how so. Racism also ranges from subtle to blatant. Examples of the subtle I've experienced:
~A White co-worker couldn't believe it when I showed her the house my boyfriend lived in while we were in the field. It was in a very nice area..which apparently surprised her.
~Same co-worker said she couldn't believe that "Jennifer Beals is for sure Black" !! I had to inform her that we come in all colors.
~I was talking to another co-worker about my son's then GF (who ultimately became my DIL). I was saying she had 4 sisters, one of whom was a twin, another set of twins and a middle girl. I must've said something about how hard her mom worked. She asked in a judgemental tone "Well *where's* the father?" as if she expected me to say I didn't know or that he was no longer around. The fact is that he was married to their mother and died of cancer when the children were young. Egg on her face!
Just so happens I liked both of these women and we got along quite well (most of the time...the latter one could be a pain).
Examples of insidious racism I encountered:
~I was surprised to discover when I did a report for college (started college when I was 37) and my research found that teachers were telling Black children that they weren't cut out for college and making them feel they were not intelligent. This was being done, not only in the south, but up here in the north.
~Black people were denied housing, usually via a lie saying the apartments were no longer available. In some cases, the person or couple had a White friend that they sent to inquire about the same apartment and the landlord told them it was available.

~When I wanted to buy an organ from the music store where I took lessons, one of the brothers (an owner) told me that I might not get the loan. He said that merchants were told to code the applications to indicate which customers were Black and those were usually rejected. I had a great rapport with both the brothers who owned the store as well as with the oldest one's wife and children. I got the loan for the instrument...maybe they didn't code the application. 
~Things we can't do that are every day normal things others do with no problem like "driving while black", looking around in a department store without being followed by security, staying at a nice Air BnB, going to an upscale gym, etc..
Examples of blatant racism:
~Denying Blacks the right to stay at hotels, even ones they were performing in.
~Denying Blacks service in a coffee shop, even men in uniform who had just returned from fighting for this country
~Cross burnings on lawns by the KKK
~Bombing a church thus killing the people in it, including children
~Publishing a newspaper with the headline containing the N word big as day (while Pres. Obama was in office).
~Police officers killing innocent Black people, *including children* and getting away with it for decades!
@Pecos @feywon


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## Pepper (Jan 24, 2022)

Thank you @OneEyedDiva for bringing this topic to reality.  We are coming into an era where white folks are trying to put into law that white people should not be made to feel bad about being racist.  Today I was telling my son it feels as if all the gains we made 50-60 years ago are being lost.  There are dangerous times ahead.


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## old medic (Jan 24, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Because God is white, thus white privilege.


Where can I order some???? Ive heard all kinds of comments about this amazing stuff.. How it makes your life so much better and easier.
My wife has been dedicated in her job field for over 20 years... has been turned down for promotions 4 times... they wanted a minority for the position.... 
My favorite racist story... Picture a group of folks gathering to set land speed records....
One group has a big pit set up, flags on each corner including a Confederate battle flag...
Across the way in pulls a van... a large black man gets out...
I start towards him and inform him he may want to pit someplace else, "We were hard core Racist's..."
He smiles and replies... " Your just jealous because I'm faster than you."


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 24, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Thank you @OneEyedDiva for bringing this topic to reality.  We are coming into an era where white folks are trying to put into law that white people should not be made to feel bad about being racist.  Today I was telling my son it feels as if all the gains we made 50-60 years ago are being lost.  There are dangerous times ahead.


You are absolutely right Pepper! In fact, I just came across this meme that addresses the hesitancy to teach the truth about the Black experience to children in school. @Pecos @feywon


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 24, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO we've lost touch with the definition/meaning of racism.
> 
> The term is too often used as a convenient way to shout down or explain away what is, in reality, an individual's actions towards others.
> 
> ...


The past is a big part of why racism exists in this country and is still perpetrated. You can't fully get rid of a tree if you leave it's roots alone. It will spring up again. So the bogging down is necessary. People flee from the history of racism because, as they say, "Truth hurts". There's a psychology behind racism. Shove it under the rug, put ones' head in the sand and it will go away. Don't bother with it because that's in the past. Well for Black people, the past keeps rearing it's ugly head, so we can't "forget it". One thing that has always amazed me and angers me at the same time...never once have I heard someone say to the Jews..."why do you keep bringing up the holocaust?" Why can't you just forget about it?" Not once!


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## Pepper (Jan 24, 2022)

Coddling the white people so they won't feel bad.  Treating themselves like pampered babies.  We're in deep trouble giving into the paranoid delusions of almost half our population.  I'm very worried about the increasing insanity.


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## Warrigal (Jan 24, 2022)

The Sydney I grew up in was, as we say over here, very "white bread". It was populated, at least where I lived, with people of anglo-celtic background and migration from UK was sponsored by government policy, hence the term "10 pound pommies". Fear of being swamped by Asians from the north was strong and the White Australia immigration policy was still in place.

During my childhood we started to see wide scale non British immigration from Europe which caused consternation because of cultural differences. Australians at that time were quite xenophobic but as they met their new neighbours and got to know them, and to taste their food, they began to appreciate them as friends. We called them New Australians.

There have been Chinese in Australia since the gold rushes but they were always kept on the fringe of Australian society. They were the reason behind the White Australia policy. After WW II Hatred of the Japanese was strong but not because they were former enemies. Other former enemies - the Turks, Italians and Germans were not reviled in the same way. It was because of the treatment of our troops who ended up as Prisoners under Nippon. My mother vowed that she would never forgive them.

Hatred of the Japanese tended to spill over to other people from Asia and when the Vietnamese refugees started to arrive there was animosity openly expressed to their faces, but now we celebrate them.  Each new wave of migrants/refugees has had similar experiences, especially if they look radically different to us locals. Muslim women had a very hard time from some after 911 but others stood by them under the banner of "I'll ride with you" where people of good will were prepared to support and protect them on public transport. 

Sudanese and Somalian refugees have also had a hard time because of their skin colour. If they are Muslim as well, with full face coverings for the women, easy integration is all the more difficult. However, many have found acceptance in country towns where their labour is very much needed. 

I guess my point is that racism can be handed down through the generations but acceptance grows as we meet the other and find out that under the skin and beyond the cultural differences, they are really just the same as us. We need also to remember that the people we are nervous about are probably rather shocked and terrified by us. Emotional barriers begin to break down whenever were break bread together or exchange a few pleasantries.


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## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

Pepper said:


> There was much travel and business going on, even in ancient times.  People saw others who were physically different.  Africa traded to Middle East traded to Asia, to Europe, lots of commerce going on.


yes but not necessarily artists,  monks and religious folk


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## Pepper (Jan 24, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> never once have I heard someone say to the Jews..."why do you keep bringing up the holocaust?" Why can't you just forget about it?" Not once!


The times they are a'changing---regressively.  In the future we will be hearing it and hearing it often. Holocaust deniers are flourishing.


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## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

rgp said:


> How do we know god is white ? Ever seen him ?






Looks white to me...


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Jan 24, 2022)

Personally, I think racism is based on "Does it injure the individual or group?"

Especially in these categories:

*Jobs
*Housing (i.e. covenants, redlining)
*Financial transactions (i.e. loans)
*Access to vote
*Targeting by law enforcement

I'm not all that bothered by someone from another race calling me names, not liking me, etc. etc. Just don't stand in the way of my pursuit for Life, Liberty and Happiness.


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## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> The past is a big part of why racism exists in this country and is still perpetrated. You can't fully get rid of a tree if you leave it's roots alone. It will spring up again. So the bogging down is necessary. People flee from the history of racism because as they say "Truth hurts". There's a psychology behind it. Shove it under the rug, put ones' head in the sand and it will go away. Don't bother with it because that's in the past. Well for Black people, the past keeps rearing it's ugly head, so we can't "forget" it. *One thing that has always amazed me and angers me at the same time...never once have I heard someone say to the Jews..."why do you keep bringing up the holocaust?" Why can't you just forget about it?" Not once!*


Oh Believe me Diva they Do, ... and they do it a lot, there's  an astonishing  population of Holocaust deniers and anti Semitic propagandists  out there , and or those who get angry at the Jewish race for raising the topic of the holocaust.. and try to stem , and quieten them, by insisting they move on and forget.

we get many documentaries on the subject on tv here... and it's raised a lot in the media also.....

Since the denial of  holocaust became a criminal offence  in 16 countries, mainly Europe, but including the USA and Australia,.. and in some of those countries punishable by imprisonment, but not the UK or USA or Australia, but in some countries  people have been instead using the ''get over it card '' instead,... which of course is not against any laws..
... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Holocaust_denial

Some people may be interested to know that in Spain it's not illegal to deny the holocaust but it's punishable with imprisonment of up to 20 years if anyone is to Justify the holocaust or any other type of Genocide..


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Oh Believe me Diva they Do, ... and they do it a lot, there's a an astonishing  population of Holocaust deniers and anti Semitic propagandists  out there , and or those who get angry at the Jewish race for raising the topic of the holocaust.. and try to stem , and quieten them, by insisting they move on and forget.
> 
> we get many documentaries on the subject on tv here... and it's raised a lot in the media also.....
> 
> ...


Well, you know of it but as I stated, I personally never heard anyone say it. And I don't think anyone *should.  *I am very aware of anti-semitism that exists in this country though. Same idiots and bigots that hate Black people. Thank you for the link, i'll check it out.


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## rgp (Jan 24, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Not in the flesh...just a lot of pictures of HIM.




  Pictures ? Really ?..... I suspect that it is perhaps ..... paintings ? ..... Big difference IMO.


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## rgp (Jan 24, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> Personally, I think racism is based on "Does it injure the individual or group?"
> 
> Especially in these categories:
> 
> ...




   Agree here and I'll add ....... special considerations should not exist either.

  Afirmative action, EEOC ....... etc.


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## rgp (Jan 24, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Looks white to me...




  LOL!!


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## Knight (Jan 24, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Because God is white, thus white privilege.


Not everyone believes God is a white male. The movie on Netflix [The Shack] has Octavia Spencer as God.


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## ElCastor (Jan 24, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Coddling the white people so they won't feel bad.  Treating themselves like pampered babies.  We're in deep trouble giving into the paranoid delusions of almost half our population.  I'm very worried about the increasing insanity.


As I explained in a previous post, it is no ones fault, but evolution cut us from different cloths. To do well in a modern industrial environment requires a moderately high degree of intelligence -- the more the better. So who has is the highest? Not White Anglo Saxons, but  East Asians and Jews of Eastern European descent. Both are heavily invested in well paying employment in the United States. Ashkenazi Jews (of which Einstein was one) take home 20% of the Nobel prizes and East Asians are far more prevalent in our high tech industry than their population would suggest, more successful in college level education, have a greater household income than their White counterparts, and yes, on average are of higher IQ. Does that make them evil? No! Blame Darwin.

Higher intelligence relates to higher paying jobs, greater affluence, and less likelihood of incarceration. Lower intelligence, regardless of race, has just the opposite effect.

"According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019"
"According to the National Crime Victimization Survey in 2002, robberies with white victims and black offenders were more than 12 times more common than the opposite."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

It may be racist to post those statistics, but perhaps they have a great deal to do with our perception of racism.


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## JaniceM (Jan 24, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> As I explained in a previous post, it is no ones fault, but evolution cut us from different cloths. To do well in a modern industrial environment requires a moderately high degree of intelligence -- the more the better. So who has is the highest? Not White Anglo Saxons, but  East Asians and Jews of Eastern European descent. Both are heavily invested in well paying employment in the United States. Ashkenazi Jews (of which Einstein was one) take home 20% of the Nobel prizes and East Asians are far more prevalent in our high tech industry than their population would suggest, more successful in college level education, have a greater household income than their White counterparts, and yes, on average are of higher IQ. Does that make them evil? No! Blame Darwin.
> *
> Higher intelligence relates to higher paying jobs, greater affluence, and less likelihood of incarceration. Lower intelligence, regardless of race, has just the opposite effect.*
> 
> ...


Bunk.
Higher-paying jobs, affluence, and less likelihood of incarceration have more to do with whether or not people have _opportunities _than their I.Q.


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## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> Racist?
> 
> I still don't really know what that is.


You are fortunate.  I grew up in the rural segregated South (US) and saw lots of blatant racism.  Things like gas stations with 3 bathrooms, men, women, and colored (usually an outhouse) were common and seemed natural back there and then.  Unfortunately that is just one example of all too many.

I knew David Duke (head of KKK) back when I was a student at LSU, believe me he was racist, and sounded a lot more like it then than now.  But I doubt any real change there.

I still know folks who harbor pretty open racist views, fortunately they are mostly older, poorer and less educated these days.  Not so much the mainstream.  Probably others hold not so open views.

So I know what I think is racism, from experience.  I will however agree that the way the term is used now it can get muddled.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> You are fortunate.  I grew up in the rural segregated South (US) and saw lots of blatant racism.  Things like gas stations with 3 bathrooms, men, women, and colored (usually an outhouse) were common and seemed natural back there and then.  Unfortunately that is just one example of all too many.
> 
> I knew David Duke (head of KKK) back when I was a student at LSU, believe me he was racist, and sounded a lot more like it then than now.  But I doubt any real change there.
> 
> ...


that's really interesting, there can't be many people still alive ( no offence) who can say they lived and witnessed racism such as segregation...


----------



## Mike (Jan 24, 2022)

I have experienced racism, aimed at me, an Englishman in London,
asked me, "why are you here, taking our jobs, why don't you go back
to your own Country"?

This was from a white man, I too am white!

My reply was, "the standard of education in Scotland is so high, I knew
that I stood a better chance of getting a good job in England", that shut
him up.

Another time I had a man from Mombasa, working in my team, I had to
pull him up for doing what he was told not do, working alone on a high
pressure steam line.

He said to me, in front of all the team, "you don't know how to speak to
a person from an ethnic minority", I couldn't believe him, so I said, "look
around you, we are all ethnics here except one man and his parents are
from Greece".

So He didn't realise that I was upset that he could have been badly injured
for doing what he did and he tried to turn it round. He was black.

Mike.


----------



## Warrigal (Jan 24, 2022)

Things could be worse, Mike. 

You could have been born female.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> Things could be worse, Mike.
> 
> You could have been born female.


...well I was born female and I had the same racism aimed at me as Scot when I moved to England.. for many years tbh... it was all in the same boring  unintelligent vein.. ''get back where you come from''...or deliberately mimicking my accent.. or inferring that they couldn't understand what I was saying so completely ignoring me and commenting in a snide way to someone near me with a  '' what _did _ she say ''

I remember vividly being desperately homesick, and in a cafe when 3 workmen clearly on a contract here , entered the cafe and stood in the queue.., and  I was so desperate to speak to a fellow Scot, and so pleased to hear the accent, I spoke to them ( Scots are known for striking up conversations with strangers).. so I just mentioned that I was pleased to hear an accent from my home city, because I'd been in London a year now.. and the one guy turned around slowly and hissed... ''F*** off Traitor''..

I've never forgotten it I was barely 20 years old


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 24, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Racism is real in this country, particularly against people of color. The seeds go so deep and is so systemic that it would take a book to detail how so. Racism also ranges from subtle to blatant. Examples of the subtle I've experienced:
> ~A White co-worker couldn't believe it when I showed her the house my boyfriend lived in while we were in the field. It was in a very nice area..which apparently surprised her.
> ~Same co-worker said she couldn't believe that "Jennifer Beals is for sure Black" !! I had to inform her that we come in all colors.
> ~I was talking to another co-worker about my son's then GF (who ultimately became my DIL). I was saying she had 4 sisters, one of whom was a twin, another set of twins and a middle girl. I must've said something about how hard her mom worked. She asked in a judgemental tone "Well *where's* the father?" as if she expected me to say I didn't know or that he was no longer around. The fact is that he was married to their mother and died of cancer when the children were young. Egg on her face!
> ...



Diva, this kind of personal insight is very helpful.  I said above that I'm ignorant about the topic.  I'm not wrongheaded (at least I hope not) I just don't know much.  

One thing I found interesting -- watching a 60 Minutes interview with Trevor Noah -- he talked about how he gets hassled by the police more in the US than he did in South Africa.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> ...well I was born female and I had the same racism aimed at me as Scot when I moved to England.. for many years tbh... it was all in the same boring  unintelligent vein.. ''get back where you come from''...or deliberately mimicking my accent.. pr inferring that they couldn't understand what I was saying so completely ignoring me and commenting in a snide way to someone near me with a  '' what _did _ she say ''
> 
> I remember vividly being desperately homesick, and in a cafe when 3 workmen clearly on a contract here , entered the cafe and stood in the queue.., and  I was so desperate to speak to a fellow Scot, and so pleased to hear the accent, I spoke to them ( Scots are known for striking up conversations with strangers).. so I just mentioned that I was pleased to hear an accent from my home city, because I'd been in London a year now.. and the one guy turned around slowly and hissed... ''F*** off Traitor''..
> 
> I've never forgotten it I was barely 20 years old.



Wondering if Irish people encounter the same thing in England?


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> that's really interesting, there can't be many people still alive ( no offence) who can say they lived and witnessed racism such as segregation...


Well, I am alive and just about every Baby Boomer would know about segregation. And subsequent generations too. I know you are in the UK but you just have to use Google and you would find out that segregation is alive and well in the US. Not only with schools but also housing.

Not long ago, in the 1970's, the student body at my high school in NYC was mainly Blacks and Puerto Ricans with mostly white teachers. They obviously took the subway from their nice neighborhoods for the day job and a check. In my graduating class there was one white student of Russian decent. Here is the most recent info on NYC schools:

"UCLA's Civil Rights Project made headlines back in 2014 when it said New York had the most segregated schools in the nation. Now, researchers there have released a new report that finds the distinction remains. New York City's schools, in particular, are extremely segregated, and many Black students attend schools that are less diverse now than they were when the first report came out."

https://gothamist.com/news/new-yorks-schools-are-still-the-most-segregated-in-the-nation-report

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/26/nyregion/school-segregation-new-york.html

ETA: By the way, Sunday mornings are maybe the most segregated time in America.


----------



## Warrigal (Jan 24, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Wondering if Irish people encounter the same thing in England?


If the present is anything like the past, they probably do.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> that's really interesting, there can't be many people still alive ( no offence) who can say they lived and witnessed racism such as segregation...


Probably more of us than you might think.  

Open enforced segregation began to end in the 50s, but it took up to the early 70s for it to happen in many places.  The schools where I lived were only integrated in 1967 as I recall, and that did not go well.  Most white parents pulled their kids out and sent them to private schools, leaving the high school I attended almost completely black.  And at that point most funding for the schools was pulled.  It took a generation for the educational system to even semi-recover.  The high school my Aunt and Uncle taught in did not allow a single black person in until 1971.

Lots of people still alive who would remember.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> Well, I am alive and just about every Baby Boomer would know about segregation. I know you are in the UK but you just have to use Google and you would find out that segregation is alive and well in the US. Not only with schools but also with housing.
> 
> Not long ago, in the 1970's, the student body at my high school in NYC was mainly Blacks and Puerto Ricans with mostly white teachers. They obviously took the subway from their nice neighborhoods for the day job and a check. In my graduating class there was on white student of Russian decent. Here is the most recent info on NYC schools:
> 
> ...


Are you saying segregation is still ongoing in the USA in school and with housing?.. in what way ?


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> segregation is alive and well in the US


I don't doubt that, but it is different, and not so rigid.  

When I was a kid a black person who tried to do things like sit at the front of the bus, eat in a restaurant with me, or enter my school was arrested, or worse.  At least that no longer happens.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Probably more of us than you might think.
> 
> Open enforced segregation began to end in the 50s, but it took up to the early 70s for it to happen in many places.  The schools where I lived were only integrated in 1967 as I recall, and that did not go well.  Most white parents pulled their kids out and sent them to private schools, leaving the high school I attended almost completely black.  And at that point most funding for the schools was pulled.  It took a generation for the educational system to even semi-recover.  The high school my Aunt and Uncle taught in did not allow a single black person in until 1971.
> 
> Lots of people still alive who would remember.


yes I didn't mean you personally, I meant your generation... It's not something we ever had to deal with when I was growing up.... so I've never witnessed it.. albeit that I've heard anecdotes about No Black and No Irish signs on boarding house doors back in the 40's.. but in my lifetime of 66 years I've never witnessed segregation of any type in the UK

I'm going to Add to this, that there has been segregation between Catholic and Protestants, in Northern Ireland, which of course caused all the terrible irish troubles from the 60's  for decades.. but aside from watching it on tv, and having our sons , father, and brothers over there peace keeping, we really weren't aware of what was occurring anmong the segregated religions


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> If the present is anything like the past, they probably do.


they don't, ...not that I've ever noticed, and I would being as I'm from an irish /Scots family... everyone likes the Irish...


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Are you saying segregation is still ongoing in the USA in school and with housing?.. in what way ?


You may not be able to access those links so here are a couple that would work for you.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2589910/NY-schools-racially-segregated.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ation-study-university-of-california-berkeley


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> ...well I was born female and I had the same racism aimed at me as Scot when I moved to England..


It is interesting, I guess people are people.  I think we have a kind of instinctive drive to mistrust, dislike, or worse, people who are different from us. 

I know I have the instinct, wish I did not.  Overcoming it takes some thinking about and effort.  One thing I find really helps is getting to know some of those "other" people, much harder to dislike someone you have met and, well liked...  At a minimum I do try to be aware of it and do my best not to let the reptilian instinct drive my actions.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> You may not be able to access those links so here are a couple that would work for you.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2589910/NY-schools-racially-segregated.html
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ation-study-university-of-california-berkeley


well blow me down..seriously, I had no idea that this was still occurring, I'm so sorry that it is...


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> No Black and No Irish signs


We have a sign in the garden that says "No spiders or Visigoths"  its from the movie.  Hope we have no offended Visigoths here.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> well blow me down..seriously, I had no idea that this was still occurring, I'm so sorry that it is...


I agree, defacto segregation is harder to fix than the old legal was.  Wish it didn't happen.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> We have a sign in the garden that says "No spiders or Visigoths"  its from the movie.  Hope we have no offended Visigoths here.


what the heck is a Visigoth ?...actually I might just take offence on behalf of them _whatever_ they are...


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> what the heck is a Visigoth ?


Barbarians, they did a number on Rome.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths

LOL, a lot of us here probably have some Visigoth blood.


----------



## Shero (Jan 24, 2022)

.
Oh how my heart bleeds (not) for all the white people who feel they have been subjected to racism.
When you have seen it cruelly executed as I have during Apartheid in South Africa, then come talk to me.
There are so many stories I could tell you, but it would take forever.
One little incident was I needed to use the toilet in J'burg, so foolish me, and someone who has not a care in the world for what color you are, stepped inside the "Blacks toilet"
Oh boy, the police saw me, they grabbed me and asked me what was a white woman doing in a Blacks Only toilet.
Took me down to the station, let me use their toilet and was told if I went into a Blacks toilet, I will be in jail. Wow


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Jan 24, 2022)

"Today, well over half a century since the civil rights movement fought for the principle that separate is inherently unequal, real estate industry practices and local public policies have not been held accountable for making very little progress on integrating our neighborhoods. 

After World War II, loans guaranteed by the Federal Housing Administration and the Department of Veterans Affairs opened up the possibility of homeownership (and wealth-building) to millions of American households. However, these loan programs were explicitly structured to exclude Black people and to favor particular places: the newly minted suburbs.

Even after decades of growing diversity and spatial mobility, most Americans still live in racially segregated neighborhoods."

*https://www.brookings.edu/essay/tre...ning-racial-and-economic-injustice-in-the-us/*


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 24, 2022)

Shero said:


> Oh how my heart bleeds (not) for all the white people who feel they have been subjected to racism.


I understand what you are saying, the majority or ruling class are less adversely impacted by racism.  So it is less of a practical problem.  And sometimes it can almost feel good, a kind of revenge I guess.  However I think it comes from a similar problematic instinct.  

I believe we'd be better off without it at all.


----------



## Chris P Bacon (Jan 24, 2022)

There are differences in America. This chart illustrates many of them. Is it racism? You decide.


----------



## Gary O' (Jan 24, 2022)

Can't we all just get a drink?


----------



## Chris P Bacon (Jan 24, 2022)




----------



## RadishRose (Jan 24, 2022)

Chris P Bacon said:


> View attachment 205269


You are on the ball Crispy. Hey that's some avatar you've got today.


----------



## David777 (Jan 24, 2022)

All but 2 of my K12 schooling was in suburban California track home communities.  In those 13 years till mid 60s, I went to 11 different schools as family moved about.  Yeah lived a lot of place and maybe thats why I'm good talking to strangers haha. In all that time I could recall just 2 African Americans attending any of those schools and none in my classes.  Speaks to policies of powerful real estate and bank loan lending corporations, a world apart, media wisely chose to ignore.  Those money people knew a minor number of clients might not prefer to live near other races.  That of course will always be true for minor numbers of people. So bean counter's demanded ethnic considerations letting only acceptable in their minds people buy into real estate in certain areas, so prices and profits would be higher. 

The first time I ever got to meet AA's was at Lackland AFB in San Antonio for basic training.  In the military during the war as low grade peons, one was like a robot working and communicating with other Americans from A to Z of all economic and cultural backgrounds from all regions. Regions that varied enormously in racial behaviors. Quite a reality check. Where I was brought up, I missed all of that except for what was written in news and magazine articles. Where racial hatred was strong in 1969 the difference in levels of racial animosity today can't compare to what it was back then including its acceptable openess.  IMO only with the passing of damaged generations will it fade.


----------



## Ruthanne (Jan 24, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> "Today, well over half a century since the civil rights movement fought for the principle that separate is inherently unequal, real estate industry practices and local public policies have not been held accountable for making very little progress on integrating our neighborhoods.
> 
> After World War II, loans guaranteed by the Federal Housing Administration and the Department of Veterans Affairs opened up the possibility of homeownership (and wealth-building) to millions of American households. However, these loan programs were explicitly structured to exclude Black people and to favor particular places: the newly minted suburbs.
> 
> ...


I for one don't live in a racially segregated neighborhood.  A long time ago it was.  The suburb I live in is totally mixed with every kind of ethnicity and race.  Even the city I grew up in is now totally mixed, too.  Most people here accept that we are all of the same race--the human race.

When people do their ancestry they will see we all originated from the same place( s).  We really are all brothers and sisters.


----------



## Lavinia (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I've even heard of Black being prejudice against other blacks.. because of the shade of their skin or  as with South Asians, prejudice against Caste , and they suffer from the effects of prejudice and racism in just the same manner and sometimes worse than  if it was coming from another race..


This is very true. I spent some years in Africa and the people there are very tribal. They hold each other in contempt simply because they are a slightly different shape.
As has already been stated....the word 'racist' is over-used and used too quickly to condemn someone.
Something I find curious....growing up in the 60's, there were many black people in the entertainment industry.....Shirley Bassey, the Motown bands, etc. We just accepted the fact that they were black, and their music was based on African rhythms. These days we seem to be more aware of a person's skin colour, not less. Is it the media who are stirring things up?


----------



## ElCastor (Jan 24, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Bunk.
> Higher-paying jobs, affluence, and less likelihood of incarceration have more to do with whether or not people have _opportunities _than their I.Q.



Oh really? Want more stats? Nah. I don't think so. Believe what you wish.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 24, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> that's really interesting, there can't be many people still alive ( no offence) who can say they lived and witnessed racism such as segregation...


Not necessarily.  I am only 64 and I witnessed segregation and de-segregation.  In the 60's I saw Black people laying in the streets in Greensboro, NC because they could only bus trays in a restaurant and could not actually eat in the restaurant.   I was just a young kid but I knew it was wrong.  

In Junior High, during integration, I was bused across town to a primarily black and hispanic school, even though I had a school nearby.  This was an attempt at de-segregation.  There were riots almost every day.  Blonde girls used to have their hair cut off.  I could never go to the bathroom for fear that my head would be stuck down the toilet.

I had a very close black friend, Virgil, who used to tell me when there was going to be a riot.  We used to go outside for lunch and he used to let me know that it was time to leave because violence was beginning.

Fridays meant that if you were white and were walking by yourself you would get hit in the face.  I did, one Friday.

In hindsight, I have no resentment over this.  This was just a poor attempt at our government trying to force integration upon us without thinking about the consequences.  So many mistakes over so many decades.


----------



## Mike (Jan 25, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Wondering if Irish people encounter the same thing in England?


Many years ago, JimBob adverts for jobs, or accommodation, invariably
ended with, "No Irish, No Blacks".

These ads could be anywhere, in London.

Mike.


----------



## Gary O' (Jan 25, 2022)

Mike said:


> Many years ago, JimBob adverts for jobs, or accommodation, invariably
> ended with, "No Irish, No Blacks".
> 
> These ads could be anywhere, in London


Yeah, same issue in early USA
Irish were thought to be part monkey
But, hey, could us Irish apes ever build railroads


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 25, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> Yeah, same issue in early USA
> Irish were thought to be part monkey
> But, hey, could us Irish apes ever build railroads


well I'm Scottish born and raised  from Irish grandparents ..I think we Celts invented and built more than any other race...perhaps it was jealousy.. what else could it be ?


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 25, 2022)

Please take time to watch this video...and there are many many more on Youtube.. this is an African American family, who have lived and worked in the  Uk for over a year, and their experiences of it, including any racism they may or may not have met... they will explain in this video to their fellow countrymen in the USA their experiences living here in England


----------



## Lavinia (Jan 25, 2022)

One of the big problems at the moment is the fact that non-whites are living in a white society and they have become over-sensitive to the race issue. Any criticism or complaint is deemed to be because of their race, when it may not be a factor at all. This is especially true of those in the public eye.
Anthropologists state that there are definite differences between the races....mentally as well as physically.I should like to expand on this subject but I'm afraid I'll probably be accused of being racist!


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 25, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> One of the big problems at the moment is the fact that non-whites are living in a white society and they have become over-sensitive to the race issue. Any criticism or complaint is deemed to be because of their race, when it may not be a factor at all. This is especially true of those in the public eye.
> Anthropologists state that there are definite differences between the races....mentally as well as physically*.I should like to expand on this subject but I'm afraid I'll probably be accused of being racist!*


actually yes you may well. I remember a while back posting a video about an American family living in the UK who made videos for their American kinfolk...explaining their lifestyle in the UK compared to the USA.. ..and I was accused by a member here of being anti-American... ....just ridiculous of course.. I just believed that those who had never been to the UK would like to hear what other Americans think of the UK.. whether good or not so good ..but no I was verbally attacked for being 'anti -American, just for posting a comparison video..


----------



## Devi (Jan 25, 2022)

@hollydolly, thanks for posting those videos. The first video was most interesting.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 25, 2022)

David777 said:


> IMO only with the passing of damaged generations will it fade.


Yep, that does seem to be what it takes.  Here is the progress I have seen within my own family (true story):

My great great grandparents were slave owners
My great grandfather participated in a lynching
My grandparents considered themselves liberal on civil rights, but in that day it just meant not joining the KKK or supporting violence against blacks, things like school integration "race mixing" was a step too far for them.
My father supported civil rights at least conceptually, but thought some of the laws took away too many white rights.  My mother however was very supportive of civil rights.
I try
My niece is married to a black man and he fits into the family just fine.
I think that really is progress, and not too far from the average American family.  However, it sure is taking a long time, timeline covers over 150 years.  If I were on the other side of it all I would not be happy about that...


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 25, 2022)

Devi said:


> @hollydolly, thanks for posting those videos. The first video was most interesting.


you're welcome Devi..IMO it's far better for an American to explain to another American what it's like to live in the UK, than anything any Brit can tell you.. 

I only posted the second video just as a little light relief...


----------



## Shero (Jan 25, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> One of the big problems at the moment is the fact that non-whites are living in a white society and they have become over-sensitive to the race issue. Any criticism or complaint is deemed to be because of their race, when it may not be a factor at all. This is especially true of those in the public eye.
> Anthropologists state that there are definite differences between the races....mentally as well as physically.I should like to expand on this subject but I'm afraid I'll probably be accused of being racist!



Please do not hold back. I have a Masters Degree from a British University in Archaeology and anthropology and I would love very much to hear what you have to say!
.


----------



## Shero (Jan 25, 2022)




----------



## Warrigal (Jan 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Please take time to watch this video...and there are many many more on Youtube.. this is an African American family, who have lived and worked in the  Uk for over a year, and their experiences of it, including any racism they may or may not have met... they will explain in this video to their fellow countrymen in the USA their experiences living here in England


I laughed when they talked about the parking. We were equally astonished at the seemingly random orientation of parked cars.


----------



## Shero (Jan 25, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Yep, that does seem to be what it takes.  Here is the progress I have seen within my own family (true story):
> 
> My great great grandparents were slave owners
> My great grandfather participated in a lynching
> ...



Honest and such a good read, thank you Alligatorob.  That's what it takes, one family at a time.
.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 25, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> I laughed when they talked about the parking. We were equally astonished at the seemingly random orientation of parked cars.


we just don't have enough space...


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Jan 25, 2022)

Yesterday and today, racism is pervasive and entrenched in America.

"Wyoming’s first Black sheriff last year fired a white deputy who is accused of tormenting a Black subordinate for years with racist name-calling that led him to quit, a new federal lawsuit reveals."

"Albany County Patrol Sgt. Christian Handley once drove past and yelled a profanity and the N-word at Cpl. Jamin Johnson while Johnson and his wife and children were walking out of their home."

"Handley used racial slurs to refer not only to Johnson but to Black citizens he came in contact with on the job, including four University of Wyoming students who were in a vehicle he once pulled over."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...fires-deputy-for-racism/ar-AAT6ios?li=BBnb7Kz

https://www.yahoo.com/now/lawsuit-1st-wyoming-black-sheriff-232008781.html

On the job, in the community and government. Instead of tweeting congratulations, this legislator's response just shows how deep racism runs in America's DNA.

"Republican state Rep. Cyrus Western replied on social media Monday to an article about Albany County Sheriff Aaron Appelhans’ appointment with a clip that showed a Black character from a movie asking, *“Where the white women at*?”

“I’d like to issue a retraction,” Western wrote in a tweet Wednesday morning. “My remark about the new Albany Sheriff was dumb and uncalled for.”

“What I did was insensitive, and, while unintended, I recognize that it was wrong,” Western added. “I hope he accepts my apology.”

https://apnews.com/article/albany-media-wyoming-social-media-casper-8e694e7894e63a5b9a845266e7707d5b

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...r-fire-racist-tweet-states-black-sheriff.html


----------



## rgp (Jan 25, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> From someone that you thinks needs mental care.  Pot, meet Kettle.




  Your responce makes no sense ?? Where did I even mention mental care ?




dseag2 said:


> "From someone that you thinks needs mental care.  Pot, meet Kettle."



  Did you word it backwards maybe ?......... IOW did you mean to say ........ someone that *you *think needs mental care ? ......... referring to me ? 

 If so , then once again your first thought is to attack me as opposed to addressing the issue and adding something substantive to it.

When it comes to the need for mental care ....... perhaps you should look into the mirror for the one who needs it.


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 25, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Oh really? Want more stats? Nah. I don't think so. Believe what you wish.


I'm here, I know what I'm talking about.  If you prefer to live in a dreamworld where you can come up with excuses, feel free.
As far as the "stats," I wouldn't doubt if it's the same widespread ignorance that was going around decades ago stating kids who are raised by single mothers were doomed to fail-  academically and every other way.


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 25, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> In hindsight, I have no resentment over this.  This was just a poor attempt at our government trying to force integration upon us without thinking about the consequences.  So many mistakes over so many decades.


Are you saying you believe integration was a mistake???


----------



## Gary O' (Jan 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> well I'm Scottish born and raised from Irish grandparents ..I think we Celts invented and built more than any other race...perhaps it was jealousy.. what else could it be ?


On my family's side, we were just dumb enough to try it

Actually, my kin were convicts, fleeing to America

Nothing's changed much.

Now, bout that drink.....


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 25, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> Actually, my kin were convicts, fleeing to America


I am a descendant of Rob Roy McGregor (as are several million others, I think) and that I believe pretty much describes the real Rob Roy.  Maybe we're cousins.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 25, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I am a descendant of Rob Roy McGregor (as are several million others, I think) and that I believe pretty much describes the real Rob Roy.  Maybe we're cousins.


well most of us Scots are descendants of Rob Roy...or any Vikings prior to that.. take your choice...


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> well most of us Scots are descendants of Rob Roy


 So we are cousins!  Maybe 15th or so, LOL.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 25, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> So we are cousins!  Maybe 15th or so, LOL.


looks like it.. probably best we don't have kids together


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> probably best we don't have kids together


I'll keep that in mind!


----------



## Gary O' (Jan 25, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I am a descendant of Rob Roy McGregor (as are several million others, I think) and that I believe pretty much describes the real Rob Roy. Maybe we're cousins.


No maybe's about it.
*Hey, cuz!*
How's our other muthers?, and aunts......and.....


----------



## ElCastor (Jan 25, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I'm here, I know what I'm talking about.  If you prefer to live in a dreamworld where you can come up with excuses, feel free.
> As far as the "stats," I wouldn't doubt if it's the same widespread ignorance that was going around decades ago stating kids who are raised by single mothers were doomed to fail-  academically and every other way.


Sigh. Let me begin by saying that I have no knowledge of this "single mother" thing you are referring to, although since you bring it up I do happen to believe that children, particularly boys, do benefit from being being raised in a two parent household.

Moving on, let me say that I resent racist remarks that pre-suppose "White" superiority, but I do I believe that intelligence is the single most important attribute of the human animal. In comparing races the White race is not the winner in this regard (minor exception the Ashkenazi Jew). The winner is the East Asian. An interesting story -- When a British teacher took a new intelligence test with him to his new diplomatic posting and administered it to his students -- including the Korean children of the workers employed in the embassy -- he was SHOCKED to discover that the Korean children scored higher than the sons and daughters of the British diplomats. That difference has been confirmed many times since. Why is this important? IQ is linked to income and academic success, and although it is controversial, criminal behavior. Here is one of many comparisons of IQ around the world. You'll note the top 10 countries are all in East Asia and the bottom in tropical climates, notably Africa ...      https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php


----------



## Pepper (Jan 25, 2022)

@ElCastor 
Ambition, hard work & being focused is more important than IQ.  Don't argue with me, I'm Ashkenazi.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Are you saying segregation is still ongoing in the USA in school and with housing?.. in what way ?


Segregation isn't legal in the US.  But we have a lot of de facto segregation.  Many schools are "all minority" as are many neighborhoods.

East St. Louis, Missouri, for example, is 96% black. 

This is the result of complex historic trends, many of which were representative of "institutional racism" (such as refusal of white owners in many neighborhoods to sell to black people) and others due to less malign patterns of immigration from the South.  Banks used to (and may still for all I know) refuse mortgage loans to black borrowers, even if they are highly qualified.  Job discrimination, wage discrimination, educational discrimination were all rampant and approved by law until the mid-1960s.   We see the effects today.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 25, 2022)

Pepper said:


> @ElCastor
> Ambition, hard work & being focused is more important than IQ.  Don't argue with me, I'm Ashkenazi.



I agree, but if you combine ambition, hard work and being focused with a high IQ, it's an unbeatable combination.  

I don't know if the Emanuel family is Ashkenazi but siblings include a former WH chief of staff and Chicago Mayor, a top doctor and public health authority, and the top agent in Hollywood.  

https://time.com/4464757/rahm-zeke-and-ari-emanuel-growing-up/


----------



## Lavinia (Jan 25, 2022)

Don't you find it intriguing that all the migrants currently moving across the globe are moving to WHITE countries....the countries which are wealthy, stable and well-educated? All the explorers of the world were white people (I'm including the Phoenicians as white), and it's whites who have had empires. Black  people from East Africa moved east and settled in Australia but have not had an empire. Africa had diamonds, gold and fertile land, but it took the white people to dig down and extract the gold and diamonds, and farm the land. Imagine if Africans had mined the gold and sold it to the Europeans...how different the world might be!


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 25, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Because God is white, thus white privilege.


I don't know how this one got past me...

but...
GOD is not a corporeal Being...  He does not have a form, body, or color.

If you're referring to Jesus, the most famous portrait was painted by an American from Chicago.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_Christ
So, as the artist was Swedish/Finnish, it's not surprising Jesus was portrayed as a white dude.


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 25, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I agree, but if you combine ambition, hard work and being focused with a high IQ, it's an unbeatable combination.
> 
> I don't know if the Emanuel family is Ashkenazi but siblings include a former WH chief of staff and Chicago Mayor, a top doctor and public health authority, and the top agent in Hollywood.
> 
> https://time.com/4464757/rahm-zeke-and-ari-emanuel-growing-up/


The emphasis on education is the likely answer.  This covers most Jews and Asians.  Less about I.Q. than what is done with it.


----------



## Jeni (Jan 25, 2022)

Below links to a few items that have occurred in the last couple years....... It  seems as if some WANT segregation back?  

I have also heard being Color blind is no longer acceptable but consider color in Everything.......   we have lost a lot of progress. 
Just like everyone we do not control what color of skin or group we are born into but we also are NOT responsible for everyone in the same group either. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...n-demonstration-outside-DNC-Philadelphia.html
https://www.thecollegefix.com/black-students-demand-segregated-spaces-white-students/


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 25, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> The emphasis on education is the likely answer.  This covers most Jews and Asians.  Less about I.Q. than what is done with it.


 I agree.  I'm not a big believer in IQ, more into "nurture" versus "nature."


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> that's really interesting, there can't be many people still alive ( no offence) who can say they lived and witnessed racism such as segregation...


When I was 12 years old, I went to a state in the south to visit someone.  When I was there, I met a schoolgirl, and was surprised when she said she didn't know who Abraham Lincoln was.  I didn't think more about it til a few years ago-  I was reading an American history book that said many public schools in that state were not integrated til a couple of years after my visit.  It hit me-  the girl attended a segregated school!!  I had trouble grasping that something like that occurred within my lifetime.


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 25, 2022)

Jeni said:


> Below links to a few items that have occurred in the last couple years....... It  seems as if some WANT segregation back?
> 
> I have also heard being Color blind is no longer acceptable but consider color in Everything.......   we have lost a lot of progress.
> Just like everyone we do not control what color of skin or group we are born into but we also are NOT responsible for everyone in the same group either.
> ...


Unfortunately, that's what we're getting.
And I, for one, refuse to buy into it.  Instead of progress, it's all going backward.


----------



## win231 (Jan 25, 2022)

rgp said:


> Speaking only for myself .... because of the color/content of their attitude.
> 
> But if for others it is a matter of skin color ? That is their reasoning & that is their right ....


Yes, it is their right to be lowlife trash.


----------



## Pepper (Jan 25, 2022)

@hollydolly
We used to vacation in Miami Beach when I was a little girl.  Not only was it segregated, but blacks needed a "passport" giving them permission to enter for jobs.  They needed other permission to be in MB after sunset. 

The water fountains were separate.  The dark fountain was labeled colored the white labeled white. Public bathrooms.  Enter the door marked ladies.  Inside two more doors, white & colored.

We took a bus to visit Dad's friends.  I wanted to sit in the back.  The bus was empty except for us.  I liked the single seats in the back.  My parents begged me not to.  I did anyway.  The bus driver pulled over, not at a bus stop and said to me "Those seats are for N word.  Get in front or I'm kicking you all off the bus."  Of course if the front of the bus was crowded, the blacks had to stand so whites could sit.  I was seven, old enough to be horrified, old enough to remember this always.


----------



## David777 (Jan 25, 2022)

Pepper said:


> @hollydolly
> We used to vacation in Miami Beach when I was a little girl.  Not only was it segregated, but blacks needed a "passport" giving them permission to enter for jobs.  They needed other permission to be in MB after sunset.
> 
> The water fountains were separate.  The dark fountain was labeled colored the white labeled white. Public bathrooms.  Enter the door marked ladies.  Inside two more doors, white & colored.
> ...


An excellent example of how much worse it was decades ago that younger generations tend not to be aware of while criticizing current status quos as though it reflects how whatever has always been.  No no.  Today in some regions is vastly less ethically, morally, hostile.


----------



## Pepper (Jan 25, 2022)

When we lose knowledge of our history @David777 we lose part of ourselves.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 25, 2022)

Pepper said:


> @hollydolly
> We used to vacation in Miami Beach when I was a little girl.  Not only was it segregated, but blacks needed a "passport" giving them permission to enter for jobs.  They needed other permission to be in MB after sunset.
> 
> The water fountains were separate.  The dark fountain was labeled colored the white labeled white. Public bathrooms.  Enter the door marked ladies.  Inside two more doors, white & colored.
> ...


I've seen all this in films (movies)..of course, but I genuinely thought that all of the segregation was over. I mean you may not have the whit/coloured bathrooms etc..but from what I'm reading here , in many ways the segregation still occurs... 

Passport for the beach...?.. I can't believe I just read that..!! 

...
...now I know we can't discuss politics folks, so hold off in what you might want to say.. but just throwing this thought out there.. I wonder what would happen in the USA if the situations were the same as what happened in South Africa, with reverse racism and potential for reverse apartheid... ( just a thought ) ...don't go getting into trouble for discussing politics..


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I've seen all this in films (movies)..of course, but I genuinely thought that all of the segregation was over. I mean you may not have the whit/coloured bathrooms etc..but from what I'm reading here , in many ways the segregation still occurs...
> 
> Passport for the beach...?.. I can't believe I just read that..!!
> 
> ...


Well, that's an interesting thought, isn't it.


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Jan 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I've seen all this in films (movies)..of course, but I genuinely thought that all of the segregation was over. I mean you may not have the whit/coloured bathrooms etc..but from what I'm reading here , in many ways the segregation still occurs...
> *
> Passport for the beach...?.. I can't believe I just read that..!! *
> 
> ...


Well, not only that but if blacks got into a public pool, whites would quickly jump out and the pool was drained and cleaned.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 25, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Well, that's an interesting thought, isn't it.





hollydolly said:


> I've seen all this in films (movies)..of course, but I genuinely thought that all of the segregation was over. I mean you may not have the whit/coloured bathrooms etc..but from what I'm reading here , in many ways the segregation still occurs...
> 
> Passport for the beach...?.. I can't believe I just read that..!!
> 
> ...



I remember moving to Virginia and one of the movie theaters not admitting black people.  You do understand that was over 60 years ago, and none of those laws are in force now.  But this is the history that we are trying to deal with.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 25, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> Well, not only that but if blacks got into a public pool, whites would quickly jump out and the pool was drained and cleaned.


..and this is relatively recently ?.. or when ?


----------



## rgp (Jan 25, 2022)

win231 said:


> Yes, it is their right to be lowlife trash.




 And once again you go straight to the gutter ....... No substance in your reply ....... only attacks, judgements, and opinions about  those that disagree with you. Is no one permitted to have an opinion different than yours ?


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I wonder what would happen in the USA if the situations were the same as what happened in South Africa, with reverse racism and potential for reverse apartheid... ( just a thought ) ...don't go getting into trouble for discussing politics..


Interesting question.  

The treatment of black people in the US South was as bad as, maybe wore than South Africa's apartheid.  The difference is that black people in South Africa were very much in the majority, so with the coming of democracy they took power.  In the US blacks still represent a minority, in most places, all states I think.  So their ability to implement some of the policies we see in South Africa is limited, I don't think it will much happen.


----------



## Remy (Jan 25, 2022)

Segregation was disgusting. @hollydolly I would say the pool situation was not recently. But when things like this happened, 60's, into the 70's, I'm not sure. It still is history wise pretty recent. And who knows what still lurks in the minds of some people.


----------



## Shero (Jan 25, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> Don't you find it intriguing that all the migrants currently moving across the globe are moving to WHITE countries....the countries which are wealthy, stable and well-educated? All the explorers of the world were white people (I'm including the Phoenicians as white), and it's whites who have had empires. Black  people from East Africa moved east and settled in Australia but have not had an empire. Africa had diamonds, gold and fertile land, but it took the white people to dig down and extract the gold and diamonds, and farm the land. Imagine if Africans had mined the gold and sold it to the Europeans...how different the world might be!



They go to the   "white" countries beause those countries throughout history became rich because they, robbed and pillaged and stripped their land and made them prisoners in their ow country.  That's why!
The British, the French, the Dutch etc.
Know your history Lavina.
.


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Jan 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> ..and this is relatively recently ?.. or when ?


The second half of the 20th Century is very recent and it came with the blessing of the US Supreme Court.

"When a new city administration changed the parks policy in 1949 to allow Black swimmers, the first integrated swim ended in bloodshed. On June 21, two hundred white residents surrounded the pool with “bats, clubs, bricks and knives” to menace the first thirty or so Black swimmers. Over the course of the day, a white mob that grew to five thousand attacked every Black person in sight around the Fairground Park. After the Fairground Park Riot, as it was known, the city returned to a segregation policy using public safety as a justification, but a successful NAACP lawsuit reopened the pool to all St. Louisans the following summer. On the first day of integrated swimming, July 19, 1950, only seven white swimmers attended, joining three brave Black swimmers under the shouts of two hundred white protesters. That first integrated summer, Fairground logged just 10,000 swims—down from 313,000 the previous summer. The city closed the pool for good six years later. Racial hatred led to St. Louis draining one of the most prized public pools in the world.

*Draining public swimming pools to avoid integration received the official blessing of the U.S. Supreme Court in 1971.* The city council in Jackson, Mississippi, had responded to desegregation demands by closing four public pools and leasing the fifth to the YMCA, which operated it for whites only. Black citizens sued, but the Supreme Court, in _Palmer v. Thompson, _held that a city could choose not to provide a public facility rather than maintain an integrated one, because by robbing the entire public, the white leaders were spreading equal harm. “There was no evidence of state action affecting Negroes differently from white,” wrote Justice Hugo Black. The Court went on to turn a blind eye to the obvious racial animus behind the decision, taking the race neutrality at face value. “Petitioners’ contention that equal protection requirements were violated because the pool-closing decision was motivated by anti-integration considerations must also fail, since courts will not invalidate legislation based solely on asserted illicit motivation by the enacting legislative body.” The decision showed the limits of the civil rights legal tool kit and forecast the politics of public services for decades to come: If the benefits can’t be whites-only, you can’t have them at all. And if you say it’s racist? Well, prove it."

https://www.marketplace.org/2021/02...ywhere-in-america-then-racism-shut-them-down/


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 25, 2022)

Well, of course recent is very relative even if it was last century, and mostly before I was born.

 I'm sorry it happened, it must have been a horrible situation for many to witness.. and to live through.


----------



## Chris P Bacon (Jan 25, 2022)




----------



## David777 (Jan 25, 2022)

Will remind others on this thread that many in some USA regions like this person had absolutely no interracial experiences during those years other than news media.   We didn't see it in schools, not in supermarkets and drugstores, not at our workplaces, not on our streets.  Well let me back off.  Unless one drives down to the poor side of the city.  Thus we didn't have any behavioral experiences nor formed opinions and attitudes like those that lived in mixed racial areas..

Did we ordinary peons in such zones have any influence about how the rest of society had become so?  Wuzat?  All the accumulative result of a long history of USA segregation culture, social earth monkeys with a wealth and power structure moving into a technology age.


----------



## win231 (Jan 25, 2022)

rgp said:


> And once again you go straight to the gutter ....... No substance in your reply ....... only attacks, judgements, and opinions about  those that disagree with you. Is no one permitted to have an opinion different than yours ?


No.  Just you.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 25, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> Yesterday and today, racism is pervasive and entrenched in America.
> 
> "Wyoming’s first Black sheriff last year fired a white deputy who is accused of tormenting a Black subordinate for years with racist name-calling that led him to quit, a new federal lawsuit reveals."
> 
> ...


Exactly, and not too get political but just to show that racism exists, what about Mitch McConnell's recent statement...

"Well the concern is misplaced, because if you look at the statistics, African American voters are voting in just as high a percentage as Americans," McConnell responded.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 25, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Are you saying you believe integration was a mistake???


Not at all.  I'm saying the way it was handled was a mistake.


----------



## Michael Z (Jan 25, 2022)

The first time I experienced racism was in a small local gas station with my best friend who was hispanic. The young man working there (who knew me) threatened both of us cause we were looking at some toy they had. He was just so ugly and I couldn't figure out why. I finally realized it was because I was with my hispanic friend. That was in the late 60's.  Later, in the late 70's I witnessed how an old college professor flunked a nice young intelligent black man that I was in the class with because he was black (and I know this was the case). But I have not witnessed such blatant acts of racism up in my neck of the woods firsthand since but rather just the opposite. I think things have gotten much better. And I think we would all be better off to focus on what has happened for the good as much as possible. The one area that I still am concerned about is within law enforcement, and there are still isolated cases occurring even up by us. Body and dash cams should be used at all times to document arrests. And a black person should not be pulled over 5 times as often as a white person!


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 25, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Not at all.  I'm saying the way it was handled was a mistake.


Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Lavinia (Jan 25, 2022)

Shero said:


> They go to the   "white" countries beause those countries throughout history became rich because they, robbed and pillaged and stripped their land and made them prisoners in their ow country.  That's why!
> The British, the French, the Dutch etc.
> Know your history Lavina.
> .


I do know my history and what you say is only partly true. Why do you think the Romans were so determined to control Britain? Because the country had resources...fertile land, minerals to mine. The Christian religion was established in Britain before the Catholic church. This country was a major player on the world stage before we had our own empire. It is even mentioned in the Old Testament!!


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 26, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> I do know my history and what you say is only partly true. Why do you think the Romans were so determined to control Britain? Because the country had resources...fertile land, minerals to mine. The Christian religion was established in Britain before the Catholic church. This country was a major player on the world stage before we had our own empire. It is even mentioned in the Old Testament!!


I've read the Bible all the way through, a couple of times.  I don't recall (and can't find) any reference to Britain.  Could you cite chapter and verse?  

Before the various schisms and splits, Christianity and Catholicism were one and the same.  So saying Christianity was established in Britain before the Catholic Church doesn't make sense.  Unless you're referring to the legend that Christ somehow visited Britain before the crucifixion.  

I have to laugh when the Brits scold the US over racism.  This from the people who colonized Africa and India and waged brutal warfare against the Irish, starving them and occupying their country until a hundred years ago.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 26, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Not at all. I'm saying the way it was handled was a mistake.


I agree that it did not go well.  But other than sooner how do you think it could have been better handled?

It went against generations of strong feelings, reversing that is not an easy thing to do.  I was young back then, but I remember the angst of thinking about black kids going to school with us and the like.  And I came from a relatively liberal and educated home.

Many people really did see it as an end of the world thing...


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 26, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I agree that it did not go well.  But other than sooner how do you think it could have been better handled?
> 
> It went against generations of strong feelings, reversing that is not an easy thing to do.  I was young back then, but I remember the angst of thinking about black kids going to school with us and the like.  And I came from a relatively liberal and educated home.



In Richmond, well-to-do white kids were bused into poor black schools in the early 1970s.  That experiment did not end well.


----------



## rgp (Jan 26, 2022)

win231 said:


> No.  Just you.



 Why is that ? .......... not that I care .......... but I am curious.

 Why is it that I cannot have an opposing opinion to yours without drawing your asinine remarks & personal attacks ? Are you just so ignorant that you cannot think of a better responce ?


----------



## rgp (Jan 26, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Exactly, and not too get political but just to show that racism exists, what about Mitch McConnell's recent statement...
> 
> "Well the concern is misplaced, because if you look at the statistics, African American voters are voting in just as high a percentage as Americans," McConnell responded.




  He left out a word [I thnk it was "other"] {as other Americans} a slip of the tongue ......... You've never made a mistake ?


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 26, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I agree that it did not go well.  But other than sooner how do you think it could have been better handled?
> 
> It went against generations of strong feelings, reversing that is not an easy thing to do.  I was young back then, but I remember the angst of thinking about black kids going to school with us and the like.  And I came from a relatively liberal and educated home.
> 
> Many people really did see it as an end of the world thing...


Kinda like this book, huh?


----------



## Pepper (Jan 26, 2022)

Book looks fascinating @JaniceM 
I want to read it, thanks!


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 26, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Book looks fascinating @JaniceM
> I want to read it, thanks!


Oh, it is.  Very informative.


----------



## Capt Lightning (Jan 26, 2022)

So who was it that massacred the native American Indians, stole their land and placed them in reservations ?  Or is this just something people don't like to talk about?


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 26, 2022)

Capt Lightning said:


> So who was it that massacred the native American Indians, stole their land and placed them in reservations ?  Or is this just something people don't like to talk about?


I agree, but I think ''he who is without sin cast the first stone''..we're all guilty as nations historically...


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 26, 2022)

Capt Lightning said:


> So who was it that massacred the native American Indians, stole their land and placed them in reservations ?  Or is this just something people don't like to talk about?



We talk about it incessantly. 

By the way, who was it who colonized and subjugated the Indian subcontinent and much of Africa?  Who occupied Ireland for 900 years and kept Irish Catholics downtrodden and starving? Who brought slaves to the West Indies to work on sugar plantations? Who stole so many of the world's treasured artworks and jammed them into the British Museum?  For that matter, who waged brutal war on the people of Scotland and denied them their independence?


----------



## rgp (Jan 26, 2022)

Indeed ......... as nations go, I don't think any of them can wear a halo !


----------



## RadishRose (Jan 26, 2022)

Capt Lightning said:


> So who was it that massacred the native American Indians, stole their land and placed them in reservations ?  Or is this just something people don't like to talk about?


Europeans.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 26, 2022)

Capt Lightning said:


> So who was it that massacred the native American Indians, stole their land and placed them in reservations ?


Our ancestors, same as did a lot of other things horrific by today's sensibilities.  But those folks are all dead and gone, leaving us to manage the aftermath.  


Capt Lightning said:


> Or is this just something people don't like to talk about?


As others have said, we talk about it all the time, no effort to keep it secret.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 26, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Kinda like this book, huh?


Thanks, I just ordered the book!

It is easy to demonize people who do racist or evil things.  I don't mean to defend those actions, however understanding where people's heads were helps understand what happened and why.  Most southern supporters of segregation were not bad people, they were just wrong.  And their wrongness did a lot of damage.

I had a second cousin in Louisiana who owned a restaurant.  When faced with being forced to integrate he decided to close it down rather than let black people in.  A stupid action that cost him his business for no gain.  I sure can't defend what he did, but in many other ways he was a nice man.  He was amongst the people who honestly believed that black people were an inferior race, that was once the majority belief in the US.  I know how stupid it sounds today, but it was reality.  I believe even Abraham Lincoln thought that way, he just opposed slavery.

We have a complicated history, really understanding it is useful.


----------



## Gaer (Jan 26, 2022)

rgp said:


> Why is that ? .......... not that I care .......... but I am curious.
> 
> Why is it that I cannot have an opposing opinion to yours without drawing your asinine remarks & personal attacks ? Are you just so ignorant that you cannot think of a better responce ?


@rgp:  Thank you for your responses and for standing up for higher values.


----------



## Shero (Jan 26, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> I do know my history and what you say is only partly true. Why do you think the Romans were so determined to control Britain? Because the country had resources...fertile land, minerals to mine. The Christian religion was established in Britain before the Catholic church. This country was a major player on the world stage before we had our own empire. It is even mentioned in the Old Testament!!



Where in the Old Testament is Britain mentioned?????  These are the only places mentioned: 

Babylon (Books of Kings II 21:12, 24:1, etc.)

Egypt (various times) Ethiopia (referred to by the Hebrew name Kush)

India (Esther 1 "Ahashverous was the king of Persia... ...

Lebanon (various times, mainly referring to the famous cedars) ...

Syria (referred to by its capital, Damascus)

*Cannot see Britain anywhere.*

Next thing, you will be telling us, the Garden of Eden was in Kent, England


.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 26, 2022)

Shero said:


> Next thing, you will be telling us, the Garden of Eden was in Kent, England


Everybody knows it was really in Florida!

https://www.exploresouthernhistory.com/apalachicolabluffs2.html

And Jesus was buried in Japan, lived there to the age of 106 and had 3 kids.


https://unusualplaces.org/the-tomb-of-christ-in-japan/

The Bible missed a lot of stuff.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 26, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I agree that it did not go well.  But other than sooner how do you think it could have been better handled?
> 
> It went against generations of strong feelings, reversing that is not an easy thing to do.  I was young back then, but I remember the angst of thinking about black kids going to school with us and the like.  And I came from a relatively liberal and educated home.
> 
> Many people really did see it as an end of the world thing...


I really don't know how it could have been handled better.  It was a bit like "tearing the Bandaid off".  It surely had to happen at some time but it seemed at the time it just made the various cultures more resentful of one another.  I'm just glad we have moved past it.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 26, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> It was a bit like "tearing the Bandaid off"


I always appreciated Thomas Jefferson's quote on slavery:

"_we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other_"

I think that is how a lot of white southerners felt...  Today we now know tearing the bandaid off or letting the wolf go should have been done right away, much sooner than it was... but it did not seem that way to people at the time. 

I agree I am also glad the legal enforcement part of segregation is long over. 

We are the last generation who will remember those days.  Not sure if that is bad or good, I find myself telling more and more younger people what I saw and remember.  Some seem to listen, some are surprised it really happened.


----------



## Shero (Jan 26, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Everybody knows it was really in Florida!
> View attachment 205551
> https://www.exploresouthernhistory.com/apalachicolabluffs2.html
> 
> ...



Hahaha, you so funny


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Thanks, I just ordered the book!
> 
> It is easy to demonize people who do racist or evil things.  I don't mean to defend those actions, however understanding where people's heads were helps understand what happened and why.  Most southern supporters of segregation were not bad people, they were just wrong.  And their wrongness did a lot of damage.
> 
> ...


The book has numerous examples like you mentioned about your cousin.  Un-freakin'-believable!!!


----------



## Lewkat (Jan 27, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> yes I didn't mean you personally, I meant your generation... It's not something we ever had to deal with when I was growing up.... so I've never witnessed it.. albeit that I've heard anecdotes about No Black and No Irish signs on boarding house doors back in the 40's.. but in my lifetime of 66 years I've never witnessed segregation of any type in the UK
> 
> I'm going to Add to this, that there has been segregation between Catholic and Protestants, in Northern Ireland, which of course caused all the terrible irish troubles from the 60's  for decades.. but aside from watching it on tv, and having our sons , father, and brothers over there peace keeping, we really weren't aware of what was occurring anmong the segregated religions


There is no forced segregation in the U.S. today.  If it exists, it is by choice.


----------



## terry123 (Jan 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Because God is white, thus white privilege.


How do we know that God is white?


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 27, 2022)

terry123 said:


> How do we know that God is white?


Because white people say so?


----------



## Lewkat (Jan 27, 2022)

Everytime this subject is broached, there are references to biblical times, various conquering empire times and our own slavery times.  Frankly, with our history of never learning from past experiences, one might just as well put this topic to bed.  It's not going to be resolve in anyone's favor in the near future and a lot of negative energy is wasted on it.  It is a personal issue, let it lie there.


----------



## Gaer (Jan 27, 2022)

terry123 said:


> How do we know that God is white?





JaniceM said:


> Because white people say so?


This is my understanding from the Angels:

The God is the underlying presence in all creation.  The part of the God who appears as a Being is of no distinct color.
God is in any form he directs..  No other living being exists anywhere equating the intelligence, the love, the complexities of the one Holy God of all gods and of all that exists.
The God appears as all love, all light , all power and all energy.  This is beyond energy and beyond matter.  This Being appears as no color. This  is all pervading and all knowing..  Even a breath of God lifts the soul to a depth of more feeling than can be expressed. This is all perfection.
This is the finest, most delicate stratum of existence.  This is spirit and light in the most tenderness in existence.


----------



## win231 (Jan 27, 2022)

rgp said:


> Why is that ? .......... not that I care .......... but I am curious.
> 
> Why is it that I cannot have an opposing opinion to yours without drawing your asinine remarks & personal attacks ? Are you just so ignorant that you cannot think of a better responce ?


Before calling someone ignorant, learn how to spell "Response."


----------



## ElCastor (Jan 27, 2022)

Lewkat said:


> There is no forced segregation in the U.S. today.  If it exists, it is by choice.


Well, yes and no. Merit based education, or lack thereof, can look a lot like race based discrimination (although it is not) and is a big issue for some, particularly Asian Americans who support the practice. For instance, San Francisco has a high school, Lowell High, focused on college admissions and the best students in the city. Admissions were merit based without regard to race. This resulted in a heavily Asian student body. The Black community was outraged. The reaction was to switch to race based admissions focused on increasing Black membership. This resulted in a lawsuit filed by Chinese parents. The parents won, but similar issues abound around the country, much to the dismay of an Asian community that is feeling discriminated against - perhaps with good reason.


----------



## rgp (Jan 27, 2022)

win231 said:


> Before calling someone ignorant, learn how to spell "Response."




  Again your asinine reply shouts your ignorance. Mine was a mere type-o .

  Yes I know .... you've never made a mistake ........ Must be a huge burden , to go  through life being the only perfect one ?


----------



## win231 (Jan 27, 2022)

rgp said:


> Again your asinine reply shouts your ignorance. Mine was a mere type-o .
> 
> Yes I know .... you've never made a mistake ........ Must be a huge burden , to go  through life being the only perfect one ?


Nope, not perfect.  But I wouldn't justify anything as ignorant as racism.


----------



## Tabby Ann (Jan 27, 2022)

In the United States, in the era between Martin Luther King and Barrack Obama, black citizens integrated into American society and reached the pinnacles of success in business, education, sports, music and government, all the way to the White House. Now however we’re in an era of tribalism, where various ethnic groups promote their tribe above everyone else and go to extremes to be different and disrespect the government. Some of this is due to influences from outside the country who want the U.S. to become a warring Tower of Babel, and some of it is due to white people with a misplaced sense of paternalism and guilt who tolerate anything from ethnic groups and don’t encourage or recognize the value of responsibility, accountability, unity and equality from everyone, including ethnic groups. This leaves the U.S. ripe for the take over by countries like China who don’t have ethnic problems because they don’t tolerate them.


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 27, 2022)

Tabby Ann said:


> In the United States, in the era between Martin Luther King and Barrack Obama, black citizens integrated into American society and reached the pinnacles of success in business, education, sports, music and government, all the way to the White House. Now however we’re in an era of tribalism, where various ethnic groups promote their tribe above everyone else and go to extremes to be different and disrespect the government. Some of this is due to influences from outside the country who want the U.S. to become a warring Tower of Babel, and some of it is due to white people with a misplaced sense of paternalism and guilt who tolerate anything from ethnic groups and don’t encourage or recognize the value of responsibility, accountability, unity and equality from everyone, including ethnic groups. This leaves the U.S. ripe for the take over by countries like China who don’t have ethnic problems because they don’t tolerate them.


"Multiculturalism" and "diversity education"-  teaching "everybody is DIFFERENT!!"  
and these are the results we're getting...  

There's no such thing as an American-  we're all reduced to hyphens...


----------



## fmdog44 (Jan 27, 2022)

"You speak pretty good American...for a Comanche"
-John Wayne from one of his many movies on the twisted view of American Indians


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 27, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> There's no such thing as an American- we're all reduced to hyphens...


As an Irish-Scottish-British-Welch-Swiss German-Neanderthal-American I kind of like the diversity and differences, makes this a more interesting place. 

And we are all Americans, that's more important than what's to the left of the hyphens...


----------



## rgp (Jan 27, 2022)

win231 said:


> Nope, not perfect.  But I wouldn't justify anything as ignorant as racism.




 So once again ........ no one can have a different opinon from yours ?  And when they do .... they're just wrong ? ....... And you can't see that as a tad self centered & self aggrandizing ?


----------



## Grampa Don (Jan 27, 2022)

Well, this has been an interesting read. Do you think we will ever start judging each other as individuals rather than stereotypes? It’s a sad commentary on human nature that we don’t.

The whole idea of race is strange. We don’t use it for other animals. Dogs and horses have breeds. When we talk about the human race, don’t we mean everybody? If you mix races, does that make a new race? A fellow I knew was part Portuguese, Japanese, and Native Hawaiian. What race is he? He married a girl who is half Mexican and half German. What are their kids?

Do we confuse race and culture? If a person with Chinese ancestors is born and raised in the U.S., are they Chinese even if they can’t use chopsticks? They would be a stranger in China. Would you consider them one of us or one of them?


----------



## win231 (Jan 27, 2022)

rgp said:


> So once again ........ no one can have a different opinon from yours ?  And when they do .... they're just wrong ? ....... And you can't see that as a tad self centered & self aggrandizing ?


Racism & hatred are not opinions.  They are serious character flaws, and indications of ignorance, stupidity & really low I.Q.
And.........._"Opinons?"_


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 27, 2022)

*I come from a multicultural country. Racism rears its ugly head here as well. Our treatment of Indigenous people bears witness to that. However, we are comfortable with the idea that people can maintain their heritage and still be a part of Canada. Trudeau once mentioned that Canada is an idea rather than an ethnicity. That resonates with me. *


----------



## ElCastor (Jan 27, 2022)

Grampa Don said:


> Well, this has been an interesting read. Do you think we will ever start judging each other as individuals rather than stereotypes? It’s a sad commentary on human nature that we don’t.
> 
> The whole idea of race is strange. We don’t use it for other animals. Dogs and horses have breeds. When we talk about the human race, don’t we mean everybody? If you mix races, does that make a new race? A fellow I knew was part Portuguese, Japanese, and Native Hawaiian. What race is he? He married a girl who is half Mexican and half German. What are their kids?
> 
> Do we confuse race and culture? If a person with Chinese ancestors is born and raised in the U.S., are they Chinese even if they can’t use chopsticks? They would be a stranger in China. Would you consider them one of us or one of them?


Race is a genetic inheritance. With it comes a variety of genetic attributes, various shades of skin color being only one, and needless to say genes can to a certain degree be somewhat a roll of the dice.  If you want to know more, I suggest you explore the Internet, lest this discussion get unpleasant.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 27, 2022)

Grampa Don said:


> Well, this has been an interesting read. Do you think we will ever start judging each other as individuals rather than stereotypes? It’s a sad commentary on human nature that we don’t.
> 
> The whole idea of race is strange. We don’t use it for other animals. Dogs and horses have breeds. When we talk about the human race, don’t we mean everybody? If you mix races, does that make a new race? A fellow I knew was part Portuguese, Japanese, and Native Hawaiian. What race is he? He married a girl who is half Mexican and half German. What are their kids?
> 
> Do we confuse race and culture? If a person with Chinese ancestors is born and raised in the U.S., are they Chinese even if they can’t use chopsticks? They would be a stranger in China. Would you consider them one of us or one of them?





ElCastor said:


> Race is a genetic inheritance. With it comes a variety of genetic attributes, various shades of skin color being only one, and needless to say genes can to a certain degree be somewhat a roll of the dice.  If you want to know more, I suggest you explore the Internet, lest this discussion get unpleasant.


I don't even understand your response.  My partner is Filipino.  He grew up in the US and is a US citizen.  His command of the English language is better than mine.  "A roll of the dice"?  His family assimilated into the US in the 60's.  What are you trying to say because I don't even understand it. 

I think @Grampa Don's response is spot on.  If you "want to get unpleasant", let me know what you are even talking about and I will be happy to respond.  Hopefully I am misinterpreting your reply.


----------



## ElCastor (Jan 28, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I don't even understand your response.  My partner is Filipino.  He grew up in the US and is a US citizen.  His command of the English language is better than mine.  "A roll of the dice"?  His family assimilated into the US in the 60's.  What are you trying to say because I don't even understand it.
> 
> I think @Grampa Don's response is spot on.  If you "want to get unpleasant", let me know what you are even talking about and I will be happy to respond.  Hopefully I am misinterpreting your reply.


This is a subject capable of generating endless heated arguments. If you and Grampa want to know more about race and genetics there is ample information available on the Internet. Go read about it.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 28, 2022)

Instead of providing vague responses, why don't you guide us to the information on the internet?  I am always open to learn when someone makes a valid point.  I have frequently enjoyed your posts so I am just trying to understand where you are coming from on this subject.  I may have interpreted your response completely wrong.


----------



## Chris P Bacon (Jan 28, 2022)




----------



## hollydolly (Jan 28, 2022)

Grampa Don said:


> Well, this has been an interesting read. Do you think we will ever start judging each other as individuals rather than stereotypes? It’s a sad commentary on human nature that we don’t.
> 
> The whole idea of race is strange. We don’t use it for other animals. Dogs and horses have breeds. When we talk about the human race, don’t we mean everybody? If you mix races, does that make a new race? A fellow I knew was part Portuguese, Japanese, and Native Hawaiian. What race is he? He married a girl who is half Mexican and half German. What are their kids?
> 
> Do we confuse race and culture? If a person with Chinese ancestors is born and raised in the U.S., are they Chinese even if they can’t use chopsticks? They would be a stranger in China. Would you consider them one of us or one of them?


These and similar questions are ones I've often asked myself too...


----------



## rgp (Jan 28, 2022)

win231 said:


> Racism & hatred are not opinions.  They are serious character flaws, and indications of ignorance, stupidity & really low I.Q.
> And.........._"Opinons?"_


  There are certain folks I just avoid ..... as I do not care for them. If that makes me ignorant, stupid, and indicates that I may have a low IQ.

  Since you obviously do not care for me .......... by your 'opinion' above, you are guilty of the exact same things you accuse me of.


----------



## Della (Jan 28, 2022)

As far as I'm concerned race doesn't exist and I wish we'd quit labeling people that way. 

Anthropologists have been telling us for years that there are no essential differences from one group to another. The names of races and their descriptions were invented by early European explorers who liked to think everyone they encountered was inferior in some way. According to their narrow minded view people with slight differences in skin color were exaggerated into redskins or yellow and everyone from Chinese to the African was a "savage."

  There was never any real difference except that thousands of years ago the people with very dark skin who migrated north were unable to absorb enough vitamin D through the sparse sunlight and so they died out and the best survivors were the lightest skins.  Even today the people in America who call themselves black are much lighter than Africans.  Time and intermarriage has made it harder and harder to say what "race" anyone is and I think that's a good thing.

I hope some day we can all just be humans.


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 28, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Everybody knows it was really in Florida!
> View attachment 205551
> https://www.exploresouthernhistory.com/apalachicolabluffs2.html
> 
> ...


Mormons believe the Garden of Eden is near Kansas City.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Interesting question.
> 
> The treatment of black people in the US South was as bad as, maybe wore than South Africa's apartheid.  The difference is that black people in South Africa were very much in the majority, so with the coming of democracy they took power.  In the US blacks still represent a minority, in most places, all states I think.  So their ability to implement some of the policies we see in South Africa is limited, I don't think it will much happen.





ElCastor said:


> Well, yes and no. Merit based education, or lack thereof, can look a lot like race based discrimination (although it is not) and is a big issue for some, particularly Asian Americans who support the practice. For instance, San Francisco has a high school, Lowell High, focused on college admissions and the best students in the city. Admissions were merit based without regard to race. This resulted in a heavily Asian student body. The Black community was outraged. The reaction was to switch to race based admissions focused on increasing Black membership. This resulted in a lawsuit filed by Chinese parents. The parents won, but similar issues abound around the country, much to the dismay of an Asian community that is feeling discriminated against - perhaps with good reason.


Colleges and universities are facing the same problem of "too many Asians."  And in NYC, the famous magnet high schools are changing their admissions policies for the same reason.


----------



## Pepper (Jan 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Colleges and universities are facing the same problem of "too many Asians."  *And in NYC*, the famous magnet high schools are changing their admissions policies for the same reason.


Now that di Blasio is finally out there may be changes to his change.  I sure hope so.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Mormons believe the Garden of Eden is near Kansas City.


KC Missouri or KC Kansas?


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Now that di Blasio is finally out there may be changes to his change.  I sure hope so.


You mean he's not getting your support for Governor?

I will miss de Blasio.  He was the only thing my son and  I agreed on politically.  We both agreed he is an idiot.


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> KC Missouri or KC Kansas?


Numerous resources I've seen in recent years said Missouri.


----------



## GAlady (Jan 28, 2022)

Mike said:


> Before anybody jumps on this, let me tell you that I was
> brought up for some years in India, when I was young,
> all my friends were the local village children and I spoke
> their language, as far as I am concerned I am "Colour Blind",
> ...


Yes, whites are being abused here in US too.  The CRT being taught and the new Woke Generation is leading to, if you are not white and average, you will be abused.


----------



## Paco Dennis (Jan 28, 2022)




----------



## hollydolly (Jan 28, 2022)

You know children just don't see colour  difference...it's taught to them...


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 28, 2022)

remember this ?...


----------



## Pepper (Jan 28, 2022)

GAlady said:


> Yes, whites are being abused here in US too.  The CRT being taught and the new Woke Generation is leading to, if you are not white and average, you will be abused.


There is NO CRT being taught outside of college law schools.  Your claim, though a popular one, is wrong.  Whites are not being abused, that's just plain wrong too.  However, if you wish to feel like a victim for no good reason, be my guest.


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 28, 2022)

Pepper said:


> There is NO CRT being taught outside of college law schools.  Your claim, though a popular one, is wrong.  Whites are not being abused, that's just plain wrong too.  However, if you wish to feel like a victim for no good reason, be my guest.


Plenty of resources on the web say it is being taught in public schools.  
I'm not 100% sure of the sources, though.  

I agree with the other half of your post, though.  
On one side of it, while I do not believe anyone should bear 'the sins of the fathers,' these modernisms of 'we cannot make anyone uncomfortable' is a load of crap.

On the other side, it's kinda irksome when individuals (anyone) assert that not getting their own way is 'abuse,' 'persecution,' etc.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 28, 2022)

I'll tell you something..I have black cousins, well , mixed race  but they're dark skinned .

Their father was an American Sailor from Louisiana, USA... their mother is my elder first cousin by 15 years , so her kids our second cousins  were the age of my siblings and me.. so we played together , never gave it another thought..even  and despite the fact that there was no other Black people anywhere  near where we lived in our city, we didn't know another black family, there just wasn't any to be seen.. yet we never even gave it a thought about the colour of their skin.. they're just D & V & E ..our cousins and playmates...

Their mother one of my many cousins also had 2 older white children but their father was  a white  Dutchman, again of course it made no difference to us that they  had a strange sounding surname.. they were just P & C..our cousins..

..One day a few years ago.. someone PM'd me on here..and was slating another member ... they ranted on about their grievance with her.. and then topped it off with .,and worst of all do you know she has Black Grandchildren ? ...that was the finish for me, they were blocked and I've never spoken to them since

That person is still a member of this forum..and probably reading this.. and if they are..  I just feel as sorry for you today as I did back then..


----------



## Chris P Bacon (Jan 28, 2022)

*Friends' plan to trick teacher with identical haircuts is the sweetest thing*


----------



## Lavinia (Jan 28, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> Europeans.


Actually....it's not common knowledge but Europeans arrived in America before the 'Native Americans'. The skeleton of a white man was found which pre-dated the arrival of those from Asia. So were white people massacred by the new-comers or did they all live peaceably together?

Why do black people feel that they are the victims of white people. Are you Americans not properly educated about the history of the whole world, or are you only taught the history of America (and there are obviously gaps in that teaching too!).


----------



## Lavinia (Jan 28, 2022)

I have to say that this thread is really showing up how poorly educated the Americans are.


----------



## Pepper (Jan 28, 2022)

American education is as good as where you live.


----------



## Pepper (Jan 28, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> I have to say that this thread is really showing up how poorly educated the Americans are.


It was always this way.  When I lived in England I met many school dropouts at 16 who were better & more thoroughly educated than an average American college freshman.


----------



## Pepper (Jan 28, 2022)

Pepper said:


> American education is as good as where you live.


I meant where the student lives IN America.


----------



## Chris P Bacon (Jan 28, 2022)




----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> I have to say that this thread is really showing up how poorly educated the Americans are.



I have to say that most of what you post is nonsense.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Plenty of resources on the web say it is being taught in public schools.
> I'm not 100% sure of the sources, though.
> 
> I agree with the other half of your post, though.
> ...




There aren't any formal "Critical Race Theory" courses taught in K-12.  CRT is an academic concept, full of jargon and BS.  However its core tenets have become common in public education.   

This is a good example, 10th graders getting lectured on "white fragility" and other questionable ideas.  Of course this is Portland, so...

https://katu.com/news/local/portlan...-discussions-on-race-draws-national-attention


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> There aren't any formal "Critical Race Theory" courses taught in K-12.  CRT is an academic concept, full of jargon and BS.  However its core tenets have become common in public education.
> 
> This is a good example, 10th graders getting lectured on "white fragility" and other questionable ideas.  Of course this is Portland, so...
> 
> https://katu.com/news/local/portlan...-discussions-on-race-draws-national-attention


It seems to me schools should focus on teaching kids the truth, that's all.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> It seems to me schools should focus on teaching kids the truth, that's all.



It seems to me that bloviating about "antiracism" is a lot easier than teaching grammar, math, or French.


----------



## win231 (Jan 28, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> You know children just don't see colour  difference...it's taught to them...


Also why people like their pets so much.  Cats & dogs don't care what color you are.  They also don't care what you look like - fat, slim, beautiful or not or how wealthy you are.


----------



## Pepper (Jan 28, 2022)

French.  It's no longer the international language it once was in early United Nations time.  Americans need Spanish!
Eso digo yo.


----------



## rgp (Jan 28, 2022)

Pepper said:


> French.  It's no longer the international language it once was in early United Nations time.  Americans need Spanish!
> Eso digo yo.




  Wrong ........ Spanish immigrants need to learn American English.


----------



## win231 (Jan 28, 2022)

rgp said:


> There are certain folks I just avoid ..... as I do not care for them. If that makes me ignorant, stupid, and indicates that I may have a low IQ.
> 
> Since you obviously do not care for me .......... by your 'opinion' above, you are guilty of the exact same things you accuse me of.


Thank you for proving it - again.


----------



## Pepper (Jan 28, 2022)

rgp said:


> Wrong ........ Spanish immigrants need to learn American English.


I agree, while still agreeing with myself too!


----------



## Pepper (Jan 28, 2022)

Actually, @rgp , the most spoken language in many boroughs here is Russian, or variations thereof.  When I came back to NYC, I wanted to learn Russian, but then I got tired of that idea.


----------



## rgp (Jan 28, 2022)

win231 said:


> Thank you for proving it - again.



 What ? ...... Just how ignorant you are ? ........ You're welcome.


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 28, 2022)

rgp said:


> What ? ...... Just how ignorant you are ? ........ You're welcome.


Gee, what polite fellows.


----------



## rgp (Jan 28, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Actually, @rgp , the most spoken language in many boroughs here is Russian, or variations thereof.  When I came back to NYC, I wanted to learn Russian, but then I got tired of that idea.




 I just feel that in this country,  America ..... American English should be the dominate language ... period.

 If I were to move to a different country ..... The first thing I would do, is my level best to learn that language. I would not expect them to learn mine.


----------



## Pepper (Jan 28, 2022)

I agree.  My grandparents came from Europe & learning English was the FIRST thing they did.


----------



## Don M. (Jan 28, 2022)

rgp said:


> I just feel that in this country,  America ..... American English should be the dominate language ... period.  If I were to move to a different country ..... The first thing I would do, is my level best to learn that language. I would not expect them to learn mine.



I agree.  If a person chooses to move to another country, they should make every effort to learn that nations language, and adhere to it's customs and laws.  

When I went to Germany, while in the AF, I started taking German classes, on base, and within a few weeks, I felt fairly comfortable venturing into the local towns, and trying to communicate with the Germans in their own language.  Being able to "assimilate" with the locals greatly enhanced my ability to enjoy all the sights and experiences of the European nations.


----------



## Grampa Don (Jan 28, 2022)

I sense a lot of fear in some of these posts.

Are "They" going to take over?  Will "They" treat us as badly as we treated "Them"?

Yes, "They" are going to take over.  The majority of humans have dark skin.  Many of them are poor.  Poor people tend to have large families. White families tend to be small.  White people are already a minority and that trend will continue.

It might be a good idea to start making friends now.


----------



## RadishRose (Jan 28, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> I have to say that this thread is really showing up how poorly educated the Americans are.


I have to say that this thread is really showing up how insulting and rude the British are.


----------



## rgp (Jan 28, 2022)

Grampa Don said:


> I sense a lot of fear in some of these posts.
> 
> Are "They" going to take over?  Will "They" treat us as badly as we treated "Them"?
> 
> ...




  WoW ! ......... What you just said/posted ......... my dad said to me years ago ....... many years ago when I was but a teenager. It's almost identical.

 He went on to say ......... some day the worlds people will be brown ....... we'd better learn to get along.


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## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> I have to say that this thread is really showing up how insulting and rude the British are.



I'm limiting my comments to one person.  I will say, though, that I think it's bad manners to criticize someone else's home country.


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## JaniceM (Jan 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I'm limiting my comments to one person.  I will say, though, that I think it's bad manners to criticize someone else's home country.


I think RR was humorously referring to the individual she addressed the comment to.


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## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

Don M. said:


> I agree.  If a person chooses to move to another country, they should make every effort to learn that nations language, and adhere to it's customs and laws.
> 
> When I went to Germany, while in the AF, I started taking German classes, on base, and within a few weeks, I felt fairly comfortable venturing into the local towns, and trying to communicate with the Germans in their own language.  Being able to "assimilate" with the locals greatly enhanced my ability to enjoy all the sights and experiences of the European nations.



We spend a lot of time in France and have taken courses, including a couple of weeks at a total immersion school in the Loire Valley.  The French (at least outside Paris) do seem to appreciate the effort to learn the language, even if our fluency leaves something to be desired.


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## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I think RR was humorously referring to the individual she addressed the comment to.



Yes, I understand.  I don't want the other British folks who post here to take offense.  We need their input!


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## Grampa Don (Jan 28, 2022)

As far as languages:  English is already a mish mash of languages, and it changes all the time.  That will continue.

It's natural for immigrants to cluster together and use their native tongues.  But, they know it is to their advantage to adapt to the language of their new country, and most will try.  By the second or third generation, many don't even understand their ancestors' speech.

Here in California, Spanish is becoming more common.  No doubt Spanglish will develop.  We will get used to it.  At least the young will.


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## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

American citizens are famous for their inability and/or unwillingness to learn other languages.  I think a lot of it has to do with teaching methods here.  Children are drilled on grammar, verb conjugations, etc. without ever learning how much fun it is to speak the language.  The way to learn is through immersion, jumping in, and then learning the rules later.  

I took three years of high school Spanish and learned nothing other than "No me le gusto albondegas."  But through reading newspapers, speaking with native speakers, travel, etc. , I learned enough to get around quite easily.


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## rgp (Jan 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> American citizens are famous for their inability and/or unwillingness to learn other languages.  I think a lot of it has to do with teaching methods here.  Children are drilled on grammar, verb conjugations, etc. without ever learning how much fun it is to speak the language.  The way to learn is through immersion, jumping in, and then learning the rules later.
> 
> I took three years of high school Spanish and learned nothing other than "No me le gusto albondegas."  But through reading newspapers, speaking with native speakers, travel, etc. , I learned enough to get around quite easily.




  "American citizens are famous for their inability and/or unwillingness to learn other languages."

  Well, frankly why should we ? We live here , we shouldn't need to learn/use another language, and if we choose not indulge in one ..... so what ? 

 Speaking only for myself, if for example I were to take a job that required foreign travel ...... then I would start learning the language of the countries I might be working in.

 But since I never did , or had  any other reason I chose not too.

 Does that make me the ugly American ?  

 I speak the language of my birth ....... in the country of my birth.

 I offer no apologies.


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## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

rgp said:


> "American citizens are famous for their inability and/or unwillingness to learn other languages."
> 
> Well, frankly why should we ? We live here , we shouldn't need to learn/use another language, and if we choose not indulge in one ..... so what ?
> 
> ...



No apology needed.  There is no need to learn another language.  It's enjoyable, especially when you travel for pleasure. 

In some countries (like Greece and the Netherlands) everybody really does speak English.  That's good because I'll be darned if I'm going to spend any time learning Dutch.

My comment was a criticism of the way languages are taught here, nothing more.


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## JaniceM (Jan 28, 2022)

Grampa Don said:


> As far as languages:  English is already a mish mash of languages, and it changes all the time.  That will continue.
> 
> It's natural for immigrants to cluster together and use their native tongues.  But, they know it is to their advantage to adapt to the language of their new country, and most will try.  By the second or third generation, many don't even understand their ancestors' speech.
> 
> Here in California, Spanish is becoming more common.  No doubt Spanglish will develop.  We will get used to it.  At least the young will.


During a period of time when I lived there, an elementary school where one of my children attended offered voluntary bilingual education classes.  (side note: years later, I heard one of your governors- Gray somebody- wanted to eliminate this..  didn't hear whether he succeeded or not.)
It turned out, though, that it wasn't for the purpose of teaching Hispanic children English- the only language most of them knew was English!  it was for any children who wanted to learn Spanish.  

In contrast, in another area (not CA), everyday school business was conducted in Spanish.. putting kids who only knew English at quite a disadvantage.  
Not long ago, I was curious and checked-  only around 40% of the students at that school are fluent in English.


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