# Higher Prices Coming



## Don M. (Feb 9, 2022)

Crude oil futures hit almost $90 a barrel today....compared to what is normally about $40/B this time of year.  Some of the "experts" are saying that oil could reach well over $120/B as Spring arrives, and driving picks up.  In some States with high fuel taxes, such as California, that could translate into prices at the pump soaring well into the 5 or 6 dollars a gallon range.

Even if you don't drive, these prices will be reflected at the grocery stores, etc., as delivery charges increase.  Inflation is going to continue to be a problem, as a result, and affect those on a fixed income the most.  Sooo...start budgeting...


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## Gemma (Feb 9, 2022)

Yes, I agree...prices are surely increasing.  Filled up my gas tank today at $3.69 a gallon.  Grocery shopping is a nightmare with the prices.  There is no way in heck I'm going to pay $3.50 for a head of lettuce!  Everything is up.


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## Chet (Feb 9, 2022)

It wasn't always so and not that long ago.


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## Signe The Survivor (Feb 9, 2022)

Exactly what we need on a fixed income.


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## Alligatorob (Feb 9, 2022)

Chet said:


> It wasn't always so and not that long ago.


I don't know, seems to me like inflation has always  been with  us...  Sometimes slower sometimes faster, but almost always there.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Feb 9, 2022)

Tomorrow's CPI report will likely be between 7.04% and 7.40% annual. The 7.04% would match the 2-1982 number. For 2 straight months the headlines have been "highest in _nearly_ 40 years". Tomorrow will likely be "highest in _over_ 40 years."

As for petroleum products, demand is outstripping supply, just like a lot of other "stuff", imo.


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## OneEyedDiva (Feb 9, 2022)

Not good news, so people better have a plan. Heat and hot water are included in our carrying charges (co-op HOAs). They just raised ours by $50 a month partly to cover the rise in taxes. Even if our heating bill is impacted, I doubt they'll raise it again before the year is out. I feel for those who have to heat their homes and buy gas.


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## hollydolly (Feb 9, 2022)

Well I've been telling you all for the last 2 years  the huge prices we're paying for oil and petrol in this country.. currently an average of £1.47 per LITRE for the cheapest unleaded..... not gallon..but_ litre_... there are 4.56  litres in an imperial Gallon , that's £6.70 per gallon... the equivalent of $.9.07 US at the current exchange rate ..per GALLON.

Now our Gas and electricity is set to increase by a massive 50 % per year.. from April this year... but no increases in salaries or pensions... ..


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## Alligatorob (Feb 9, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> £1.47 per LITRE for the cheapest unleaded..... not gallon..but_ litre_... there are 4.56 litres in an imperial Gallon , that's £6.70 per gallon... the equivalent of $.9.07 US at the current exchange rate ..per GALLON


I believe most of the price difference from country to country is taxation.  You pay more taxes than we do, on fuel anyway.  20 or 30 years ago the differences were even greater, our taxes have gone up.  I remember back in the 90s a liter of fuel in Europe cost about the same as a gallon in the US.  Today its more like 2 liters to a gallon.

Our prices also vary a lot from state to state, again mostly based on taxes.  California is a partial exception, they have some pretty stringent requirements on the fuel and its makeup that adds to the cost.

Your fuel costs are higher than most, but less than a lot of European countries.  Worldwide Hong Kong is the highest, Venezuela lowest.

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/


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## hollydolly (Feb 9, 2022)

Yes I know all that... but knowing it doesn't help us find the money to pay it.... we also have some of the lowest salaries ...


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## Ceege (Feb 9, 2022)

If you ever watch the _Johnny Carson Show_ at night, you will hear him talk about many problems that we have today.  Including inflation.


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## ElCastor (Feb 9, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Well I've been telling you all for the last 2 years  the huge prices we're paying for oil and petrol in this country.. currently an average of £1.47 per LITRE for the cheapest unleaded..... not gallon..but_ litre_... there are 4.56  litres in an imperial Gallon , that's £6.70 per gallon... the equivalent of $.9.07 US at the current exchange rate ..per GALLON.
> 
> Now our Gas and electricity is set to increase by a massive 50 % per year.. from April this year... but no increases in salaries or pensions... ..


If you think it's bad now, depending on how this Ukraine thing goes current gas and electricity prices may seem like the good old days.


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## Don M. (Feb 9, 2022)

The rising price of nearly everything is showing no signs of slowing down.  This evening, the news said that both Ford and GM are cutting back production as a result of this Canadian truckers boycott, and they are running out of parts for new car production.  That, and the "chip" shortage have resulted in over 80% of new car buyers paying more than the sticker price for new vehicles in the past year.  This trucker action, and the port backlogs on the West coast are causing supply issues on an increasing number of consumer products.  

Bottom line....expect 2022 inflation numbers to be as bad, or worse than what we saw in 2021.


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## Don M. (Feb 9, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Yes I know all that... but knowing it doesn't help us find the money to pay it.... we also have some of the lowest salaries ...


Europe is especially vulnerable to rising energy costs, as most of their fuel comes from other nations.  This Ukraine mess could make things even worse....as part of the negotiations involve approval of the Nord Stream pipeline coming from Russia.  If Russia moves on Ukraine, that pipeline could be history, and Europe would have even less fuel.


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## Lara (Feb 9, 2022)

I'm concerned for my children's future.


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## MMinSoCal (Feb 9, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Crude oil futures hit almost $90 a barrel today....compared to what is normally about $40/B this time of year.  Some of the "experts" are saying that oil could reach well over $120/B as Spring arrives, and driving picks up.  In some States with high fuel taxes, such as California, that could translate into prices at the pump soaring well into the 5 or 6 dollars a gallon range.
> 
> Even if you don't drive, these prices will be reflected at the grocery stores, etc., as delivery charges increase.  Inflation is going to continue to be a problem, as a result, and affect those on a fixed income the most.  Sooo...start budgeting...


I'm in California.  I filled up my gas tank today at $5.03/gallon.  I drive plenty of miles each day for work.  I can easily spend over $300 on gas alone each week.  Good thing my employer reimburses for mileage at 32 cents/mile.  Hopefully, they'll raise this reimbursement rate due to rising gas prices!


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## jakbird (Feb 9, 2022)

Ceege said:


> If you ever watch the _Johnny Carson Show_ at night, you will hear him talk about many problems that we have today.  Including inflation.


Some of the old time radio shows from the late 40s had jokes along the same lines, after rationing ended.  I remember those comments from Johnny's opening monologue, from the 70s up to 1982 (when inflation came to a sudden stop).  After a while the jokes weren't so funny when mortgage rates passed 12%.


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## jakbird (Feb 9, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Europe is especially vulnerable to rising energy costs, as most of their fuel comes from other nations.  This Ukraine mess could make things even worse....as part of the negotiations involve approval of the Nord Stream pipeline coming from Russia.  If Russia moves on Ukraine, that pipeline could be history, and Europe would have even less fuel.


Some recent good news, the US has asked Asian countries which purchase LNG (liquified natural gas) from the US to defer part of their shipments so that more LNG production can be sent to Europe.  The US (no. 1) and Qatar (no. 2) are by far the two largest players in LNG exports.  A major portion of US exports are now being diverted to help Europe through the winter.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Feb 9, 2022)

As the conversation seems to have a shift towards natural gas... Gazprom (Russia) is collecting big money from Europe with just the notion of gas being reduced and the threat of invading Ukraine. Russia (Gazprom) has a winning hand and invading Ukraine makes the hand weaker. Europe is shifting away from coal and nuclear , towards solar and wind and has decreed NatGas as the bridge, while mostly banning fracking. 

Europe will continue along their current path, eventually approving Nordstream 2 and becoming Russia's b!t?? It's in the cards and Russia is holding most of them.

As for LNG and CNG, there are currently not enough ships on the water to offset the long term needs of Europe. While our natgas has gone up about 300% over the past year, Europe has gone up over 600%. More ships would bring down Europe's price while driving up the U.S. price.

BTW, U.S. Natgas storage is trending toward the lower end of the 5 year range and that is before this last cold snap.


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## Lethe200 (Feb 9, 2022)

It was easy to get spoiled with inflation abnormally low for 12 yrs (2009 to 2020). Historically it averages around 3%. So this swing has happened before, and will happen again at some point, as we bounce our way back to the average over the long term.
U.S. Inflation Rate by Year From 1929 to 2023

This year's bump is a reminder of why good retirement planning includes allowing for inflation's erosion of buying power. Perhaps you remember your parents and/or grandparents complaining, "Why, I remember when I only had to pay 5 cents to ride the bus!", as you (as a kid) rolled your eyes at them and dropped your quarter into the farebox, LOL.


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## oldpop (Feb 9, 2022)

I think it is a little strange that in the last three years we have had one major crisis after another. I have to ask myself what is next?


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## MarciKS (Feb 9, 2022)

Ours is going up $5 - $7 just to cover a cold spike we went through. So if the oil went up then it will likely be more. I'm glad I don't go anywhere.


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 10, 2022)

The current round of inflation will increase the divide between the haves and the have-nots.

This article from Nerd Wallet is worth reading.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/finance/data-inflation-poverty

The sad fact is that we can only cut expenses to the bone once, while the cost of the bone continues to increase.


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## mathjak107 (Feb 10, 2022)

Collectively the bond markets are saying this inflation scare is going to be a head fake …with long term bond rates at just 2.25% in 7% inflation the bond market is saying a slow down is in the cards and rates will be forced to be lowered to avoid recession and deflation


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## Lara (Feb 10, 2022)

In the early 70's gas was 35 cents a gallon.
So I'm not a believer that inflation is just a
"head fake" and will slow down or be lowered.
Not for long anyway.


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## mathjak107 (Feb 10, 2022)

3% inflation as an average is normal and that is what bond markets are predicting …they have historically been correct  In setting their own bond rates

in 2006 -2007 the fed was raising short term rates ..the bond market disagreed and  bid rates lower on bonds while the fed was raising rates ….the bond market smelled trouble and we ended up have the famous inverted yield curve where short term rates ended up higher then long term rates .

the bond market was correct , and the feds inflation fears were unfounded and they now had to lower rates again.

raising rates will take what ever money people have to spend and suck it away like a tax would …that will leave less money to be spent on goods and services and that will likely slow us down and tip us towards recession…

the fed will likely have to reverse course and may never even get to implement all the increases it sees doing


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## Liberty (Feb 10, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Well I've been telling you all for the last 2 years  the huge prices we're paying for oil and petrol in this country.. currently an average of £1.47 per LITRE for the cheapest unleaded..... not gallon..but_ litre_... there are 4.56  litres in an imperial Gallon , that's £6.70 per gallon... the equivalent of $.9.07 US at the current exchange rate ..per GALLON.
> 
> Now our Gas and electricity is set to increase by a massive 50 % per year.. from April this year... but no increases in salaries or pensions... ..


Wow, we just paid $2.66 a gal. here for a fill up - plus 40 cents off per gallon with the Kroger fuel discount.


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## Liberty (Feb 10, 2022)

Exxon Mobil is moving its headquarters to Houston... long standing jokes about when the big oil companies that have "more money than God" move here, oil is set to boom.  Love their big dividend yield.  Buy on the dip, its coming...lol

https://businessfacilities.com/2022/02/exxonmobil-is-moving-headquarters-to-houston/


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## mathjak107 (Feb 10, 2022)

Liberty said:


> Wow, we just paid $2.66 a gal. here for a fill up - plus 40 cents off per gallon with the Kroger fuel discount.


We are at 3.39 here


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## mathjak107 (Feb 10, 2022)

Liberty said:


> Exxon Mobil is moving its headquarters to Houston... long standing jokes about when the big oil companies that have "more money than God" move here, oil is set to boom.  Love their big dividend yield.  Buy on the dip, its coming...lol
> 
> https://businessfacilities.com/2022/02/exxonmobil-is-moving-headquarters-to-houston/


For anyone who owns longer than two years they would have had a better return from a bank cd then xom provided with dividends the last 15 years…it’s only the last  year that even brought xoms return positive for as far out as 15 years

with dividends xom returned 6.54 the last 3  years  cagr  , 3.20% the last 5 years , 2.56% the last 10 years and 3.03 % the last 15 years cagr..

on the other hand a simple s&p fund with far less risk is up 21.24% cagr the last 3 years , 16.72% the last 5 years , 15.13 the last 10 and 10.17 the last 15 years .

which would you rather have owned ?


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## MickaC (Feb 10, 2022)

Gas price is now 1.51 per litre as of yesterday, 10 cent a litre hike.


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## Liberty (Feb 10, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> For anyone who owns longer than two years they would have had a better return from a bank cd then xom provided with dividends the last 15 years…it’s only the last  year that even brought xoms return positive for as far out as 15 years
> 
> with dividends xom returned 6.54 the last 3  years  cagr  , 3.20% the last 5 years , 2.56% the last 10 years and 3.03 % the last 15 years cagr..
> 
> ...


Ha ha...we play the Exxon game down here. The index funds are fine if you take it out at the right time - timing the market is nearly impossible on a regular basis...give it to you one day and yank it back the next.  Yeah, yeah, leave it in and never take it out. Ever wonder what all that money in the market will do for the net generation?  Probably squander it.  We've got the common index funds, but hey, got to have fun playing with some  sidebar bucks too.

Hey, maybe they'll bring back the patch days...lol.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220126006001/en/


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## Becky1951 (Feb 10, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> The current round of inflation will increase the divide between the haves and the have-nots.
> 
> This article from Nerd Wallet is worth reading.
> 
> ...


I had already cut back on groceries last year, last week while ordering groceries I had to reduce my normal cheapest choices, by 50% of what I buy. I just couldn't afford the prices. I don't eat a lot of meat to begin with, now even less. Fresh veggies and fruit? Ha yeah right, so much for a healthy diet. Thankfully I can still afford bananas, until next order???


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## JaniceM (Feb 10, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> If you think it's bad now, depending on how this Ukraine thing goes current gas and electricity prices may seem like the good old days.


I don't know one kind of gas from another, and don't drive, but this last month my heating bill doubled.  It's a big worry.


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## Don M. (Feb 10, 2022)

I'm kind of a "price-aholic" when we are shopping.  While I'm pushing the cart at the grocery store, while the wife is making her selections, I browse the prices...looking for bargains, etc.  Over the past year, I've seen prices rising between 20 and 40 percent on many of the items we usually buy.  When were running around, we often stop at a McDonalds for a Senior Coffee and a quick snack.  For years, a Senior coffee was 50 cents...now, its 79 cents.  Their "Dollar Menu" is now closer to a 2 Dollar Menu.  

The "official" rate of inflation is in the 6 to 7% range...according to the government...But the people that come up with those numbers must not be doing much grocery shopping.


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## Alligatorob (Feb 10, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Yes I know all that... but knowing it doesn't help us find the money to pay it....


I am not sure high fuel taxes are a bad idea.  If it limits the number of cars on the road it could be good, and cars cost us all a lot.  Not just road maintenance, but think about all of the real estate we have given over to the car, roads and parking lots take up a lot of space.  

On the other hand I like the freedom to drive when and where I want and to buy gas as cheaply as possible...


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## Jeni (Feb 10, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I am not sure high fuel taxes are a bad idea.  If it limits the number of cars on the road it could be good, and cars cost us all a lot.  Not just road maintenance, but think about all of the real estate we have given over to the car, roads and parking lots take up a lot of space.
> 
> On the other hand I like the freedom to drive when and where I want and to buy gas as cheaply as possible...


I think many feel that way force people out of cars .... in some areas more spread out then dense populations... 
some places where i live ..... will ask for reliable ways to get to work ( car)  as they do not count public transportation as reliable transportation to get to work.


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 10, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> I had already cut back on groceries last year, last week while ordering groceries I had to reduce my normal cheapest choices, by 50% of what I buy. I just couldn't afford the prices. I don't eat a lot of meat to begin with, now even less. Fresh veggies and fruit? Ha yeah right, so much for a healthy diet. Thankfully I can still afford bananas, until next order???


Last year I stopped buying many of the common household items.

I buy small amounts of ground beef, ham, and sausage to use as more of a seasoning than a main course.

I'm eating more oatmeal, eggs, and beans, but I still _splurge_ on coffee, ice cream, and chocolate.

Citrus fruit is high in this area, so I finally switched to a daily glass of tomato juice.

Basic frozen vegetables are still a bargain in this area.  The only fresh vegetables I buy at this time of year are carrots, onions, and cabbage.

I'll still find a way to splurge when the seasonal fruits and vegetables become available.

I try to eat healthy overall without focusing on each individual meal.

I'm thankful that I'm not feeding a family with teenagers and several pets.

We'll figure it out, just like we have all of our lives.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 10, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> Last year I stopped buying many of the common household items.
> 
> I buy small amounts of ground beef, ham, and sausage to use as more of a seasoning than a main course.
> 
> ...


Chicken is my main meat, so many options for various meals.

You mentioned pets, yes pet food has increased a lot.

I have two medium to large dogs, dry dog food has gone up 2.00 a bag within a year, but wow, can dog food is ridiculous now. I give them each a can a day along with dry dog food. I was paying 8.99 for 12 cans, now it's 15.99 for 12 cans.


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## ElCastor (Feb 10, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I don't know one kind of gas from another, and don't drive, but this last month my heating bill doubled.  It's a big worry.


The US was at one time energy independent -- we produced enough for our own needs and exported. Now production is way down and we import. Even out here in sunny California, where we never see a freezing temperature, our heating bill is way up. If, as a result of the current Russia/Ukraine conflict the US or Russia cuts off Russian energy exports to large parts of Eastern and Central Europe, the resulting competition for alternate sources will drive energyprices up in Europe and the US -- so keep your fingers crossed, it could get much worse.


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## Pepper (Feb 10, 2022)

*ADMIN*​


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## debodun (Feb 10, 2022)

It makes me think twice about going back to work delivering meals to seniors. In the program I worked in, not even gas was reimbursed to the drivers.


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## Packerjohn (Feb 10, 2022)

Last week regular gas here in the middle of Canada was $139.9/litre.  This week it is $149.9.  If you thought that your government was kind and supportive during the nasty Covid days by giving you all that money you were badly mistaken.  Now, it is pay back time.  Interest rates going up!  Groceries going up!  Gasoline going up!  Home heating fuel going up!  Taxes going up!  Only the rich are left smiling as they always have in the past.  I believe that Creedence Clearwater Revival had it right:


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## Gaer (Feb 10, 2022)

These will probably go higher until 2025.  We were told of this prior to the last elections, so it shouldn't be a surprise.


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 10, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> Last week regular gas here in the middle of Canada was $139.9/litre.  This week it is $149.9.  If you thought that your government was kind and supportive during the nasty Covid days by giving you all that money you were badly mistaken.  Now, it is pay back time.  Interest rates going up!  Groceries going up!  Gasoline going up!  Home heating fuel going up!  Taxes going up!  *Only the rich are left smiling as they always have in the past.*  I believe that Creedence Clearwater Revival had it right:


_“There are many in this old world of ours who hold that things break about even for all of us. I have observed for example that we all get the same amount of ice. The rich get it in the summertime and the poor get it in the winter."_ ~Bat Masterson


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## Alligatorob (Feb 10, 2022)

Fuel prices are a good indicator of inflation.  The inflation adjusted price has varied surprisingly little over the last 100 years.  So if the price of gas is going up, so likely is everything else.


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## mathjak107 (Feb 10, 2022)

oil  is a big  component in the cpi.. about 8%


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## StarSong (Feb 10, 2022)

OldBlackMable said:


> Oh I know about prices. Now, chitlins cost $3.58 per ten pounds at Walmart. It was a dollar less just six months ago and there ain't hardly any good meat on them. The oil used to fry them has gone up too, I've had to go down to the Korean store and buy a giant tin can for five dollars, and I been getting the short breading from the local store run by indians to make things last further.
> 
> Cat food has been terrible. I stopped buying cat food and just began sending the cats out to fend for themselves. I figure the birds be free so what is to stop them?
> 
> My husband, bless his soul, stopped going to the liquor store and started moonshining again. That will bring in some money during the summer, after the spring starts moving again and we have flame going and the mash ready. I think we can get about 15 dollars per liter and if we can get a hundred gallons going we should be right for the summer and fall. Lord knows what we will do in the winter.





OldBlackMable said:


> I been thinking of selling my dogs breast milk and tellin people it is my own, things be so bad. God's word, if you aint had dogs milk with pancakes then you ain't been through hard times.



Yeah, I'm taking this post seriously.. Not. My prediction is this will be a very short lived SF member.


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## hollydolly (Feb 10, 2022)

I think we have our troll back.....  @Matrix


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## Liberty (Feb 10, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Yeah, I'm taking this post seriously.. Not. My prediction is this will be a very short lived SF member.


You got that right, StarSong!


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## Remy (Feb 10, 2022)

I don't plan on going hungry, or the cats. I don't pay a lot of attention to prices since I just shop for myself. Though I have noted some increases. 

If I have to go back to toast and potato or toast and creamed corn for dinner like I did when I was broke, I guess I will.


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## Packerjohn (Feb 11, 2022)

So the propaganda/media is telling us that here in Canada the inflation rate last month was 4.8%.  I also read that our good neighbours to the south, USA, are "enjoying" an inflation rate of 7.5%  Well, that is the news and it's up to you how much you believe the media.  I believe what I see!  New trucks are being sold for over $100,000 when you figure in the taxes.  Groceries are way up too.  Folks with money in the bank has a cushion to fall back on.  However, I really feel for seniors on fixed income or those poor single mothers with a couple kids to feed.  The world never has been fair and it certainly isn't now.


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## mathjak107 (Feb 11, 2022)

The tremendous jump in natural gas prices just had most of us here served by con ed get bills 50% bigger …we were netting out to .30 cents a kwr …we just paid ,47 cents


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## Don M. (Feb 11, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> The tremendous jump in natural gas prices just had most of us here served by con ed get bills 50% bigger …we were netting out to .30 cents a kwr …we just paid ,47 cents



That is likely to become the "norm" for quite some time.  Environmental/political issues with fossil fuels, and reductions in production, etc., have driven wholesale prices to levels not seen in years.  The "movement" is to go All Electric, in everything from vehicles to household appliances.  Unfortunately, our electric grids and generation capacities are nowhere near allowing an orderly transition away from oil/gas.  

Fuel and food prices are going to have the largest impact on most consumers budgets...now, and for the foreseeable future.


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## Devi (Feb 11, 2022)

Also, my understanding is that one of the ways to create electricity is through the use of coal.


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## Liberty (Feb 12, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> The tremendous jump in natural gas prices just had most of us here served by con ed get bills 50% bigger …we were netting out to .30 cents a kwr …we just paid ,47 cents


Wow, you pay way more than we do!


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## mathjak107 (Feb 12, 2022)

Liberty said:


> Wow, you pay way more than we do!


Con ed is the highest in the country I believe


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## mathjak107 (Feb 12, 2022)

Devi said:


> Also, my understanding is that one of the ways to create electricity is through the use of coal.


It has been not used because it burns so dirty


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## Don M. (Feb 12, 2022)

mathjak107 said:


> Con ed is the highest in the country I believe



It's not just Con Ed....natural gas and propane prices are up all across the country.  Our house is total electric, and our rates are quite reasonable, but some of the neighbors heat with Propane, and their heating costs are up almost 30% this year, over what they have paid in the past, according to a couple I've spoken with.    

Given the "push" to move away from fossil fuels, I don't expect to see much relief in fossil fuel prices anytime soon.


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## HoneyNut (Feb 12, 2022)

Lethe200 said:


> It was easy to get spoiled with inflation abnormally low for 12 yrs (2009 to 2020). Historically it averages around 3%. So this swing has happened before, and will happen again at some point, as we bounce our way back to the average over the long term.


That was a nice link, thanks.  It looks like every time there was a war there was inflation for a couple years.  I guess the covid pandemic is acting like a war, it does seem very similar with the increase in spending to fight it and the shortages and disruptions to supply chains.  I guess I'm happy things didn't get so bad that we needed rationing (though there was a time I would have been happy if toilet paper had been fairly rationed! ha ha).  

It really feels like the pandemic is about wrapped up (if no horrid variant pops up), so now can we switch to post-war boom time maybe?   

Though, I guess the global warming problem is starting to hit us, and will cost a lot.  For a species that is supposed to be able to have foresight and good planning and preparation skills, we have been disappointingly passively waiting for climate change to come crush us.  You'd think we'd at least be able to invent an affordable nice roof that isn't demolished by every hail storm.


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## StarSong (Feb 12, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> For a species that is supposed to be able to have foresight and good planning and preparation skills, we have been disappointingly passively waiting for climate change to come crush us.


Humans are very good at short term planning for immediate threats.  Our track record for dealing with long-term threats or delayed gratification are spotty at best.    Especially when we add in political tribalism.


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## Geezer Garage (Feb 12, 2022)

Last year I added a second 500gal propane tank to my existing one at the house, so I wouldn't get stuck paying mid winter prices. Need to find another one to double my shop fuel capacity also, although I should get through this winter, having been gone for two months. We can always count on the oil company's to gouge whenever possible. It's just amazing to me, that we as taxpayers are still subsidizing some of the most profitable corporate entities in the world. Mike


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## Knight (Feb 12, 2022)

Everyone is feeling the change in COLA. I can't imagine the impact 15 years from now as resources dwindle.


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## Packerjohn (Feb 12, 2022)

Devi said:


> Also, my understanding is that one of the ways to create electricity is through the use of coal.


Yes, you are right, Devi.  However, the mining and the burning of coal is a BIG NO NO for all those who are concerned about global warming.


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## Jackie23 (Feb 12, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> That was a nice link, thanks.  It looks like every time there was a war there was inflation for a couple years.  I guess the covid pandemic is acting like a war, it does seem very similar with the increase in spending to fight it and the shortages and disruptions to supply chains.  I guess I'm happy things didn't get so bad that we needed rationing (though there was a time I would have been happy if toilet paper had been fairly rationed! ha ha).
> 
> It really feels like the pandemic is about wrapped up (if no horrid variant pops up), so now can we switch to post-war boom time maybe?
> 
> Though, I guess the global warming problem is starting to hit us, and will cost a lot.  For a species that is supposed to be able to have foresight and good planning and preparation skills, we have been disappointingly passively waiting for climate change to come crush us.  You'd think we'd at least be able to invent an affordable nice roof that isn't demolished by every hail storm.


You are exactly correct, HoneyNut....we are being hit with the results of global warming right and left and it will only get worse.
Not near enough is being done to prepare for the consequences and we can thank the politicians that always vote down any legislature dealing with global warming.


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## Knight (Feb 12, 2022)

Jackie23 said:


> You are exactly correct, HoneyNut....we are being hit with the results of global warming right and left and it will only get worse.
> Not near enough is being done to prepare for the consequences and we can thank the politicians that always vote down any legislature dealing with global warming.


Not only in America but world wide politicians want to remain in office. All want a piece of the pie that improves the lives of their constituents. The sad reality IMO while trying to improve deterioration is the result.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 22, 2022)

I just filled up my Jeep yesterday, gas was $3.19 per gallon for regular.  Been the same for the past couple of weeks, not too bad.


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## AnnieA (Feb 22, 2022)

Mr. Putin isn't helping matters.


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## Don M. (Feb 22, 2022)

SeaBreeze said:


> I just filled up my Jeep yesterday, gas was $3.19 per gallon for regular.  Been the same for the past couple of weeks, not too bad.



Same here....we had to do some running around today, and I saw gas prices between $3.09 and $3.39.  However, that is about $1/gal. more than what we normally see this time of year.  I'm already getting mentally prepared for $4/gal. by Spring, and that price may be optimistic, depending upon what happens with this Russia/Ukraine mess.


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## Liberty (Feb 23, 2022)

Its $2.65 at the Shell station not far away or  less if you buy it at Krogers and get the .50 a gallon off.


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## StarSong (Feb 23, 2022)

It's about $4.50/gal for regular at most of the more reasonable stations around here.  $4.20 or so at Costco.  

When fuel prices go up everything else follows. With what's going on between Russia, Ukraine, Germany, Europe in general, the US and NATO, we'd better fasten our seatbelts, it looks like a bumpy road ahead.


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## Packerjohn (Feb 23, 2022)

I don't feel sorry for anyone complaining about higher gas prices.  I am old enough to remember the gas shortages in the US during the early 1980 when people had to line up for 2 hours to get gas.  Since then everyone seems to have forgotten and now they drive big 4 X4 trucks with V8 motors and Suvs.  I drive a 4 cycliner Ford Focus and welcome the higher fuel prices.  I really feel that the "gravey train ride" here in Canada and the US will end very soon with increasing prices all over the place.  It's the end for everyone who has a cottage out in the country and drives a big 4X4 carrying a snowmobile or a ATV on the back.  Oh, the rich will continue as they always have.  You'll be OK if you are the rich but for the rest of us it's "hard times comin'.'

I can see that there is going to be a certain "cutting the fat" in the future and of course, this will come from the middle class.  The rich will always stay rich and they will always "live high of that proverbial hog."  The poor have always suffered and will continue to suffer; maybe even more but they know what suffering is all about.  The middle class will have to start cutting some of the fat (luxuries) in their lives.  This means that some will have to get rid of expensive pets with expensive feeding and maintenance at the vet, cheaper mobile phones rather than the $1,000 plus, less eating out, less going out to shows, less "toys for boys" like expensive ATVs, snowmobiles and personnel water crafts.

The economy of the Western World is going to take a real nose dive.  I'm not sure where and when it will stop but hey, all things come to an end.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Feb 23, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I don't feel sorry for anyone complaining about higher gas prices.  I am old enough to remember the gas shortages in the US during the early 1980 when people had to line up for 2 hours to get gas.  Since then everyone seems to have forgotten and now *they drive big 4 X4 trucks with V8 motors and Suvs*.  I drive a 4 cycliner Ford Focus and welcome the higher fuel prices.  I really feel that the "gravey train ride" here in Canada and the US will end very soon with increasing prices all over the place.  It's the end for everyone who has a cottage out in the country and drives a big 4X4 carrying a snowmobile or a ATV on the back.  Oh, the rich will continue as they always have.  You'll be OK if you are the rich but for the rest of us it's "hard times comin'.'


Bigger is Better in America!


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## RadishRose (Feb 23, 2022)

3.49 is the cheapest in my city. Most are 3.53.


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 23, 2022)

$3.729 for regular unleaded.

It's difficult to compare gas prices due to the various taxes added by each level of government.


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## Feelslikefar (Feb 23, 2022)

We live in a state without a personal income tax, so we pay more on the front end.
Higher sales tax, etc. adds to the price of things.
Knew this when we moved here.
Filled up today @ 3.19 a gallon; with the price of crude hovering just under $100 a barrel, wasn't shocked.
While waiting for the next open pump, flashed back to the long lines in 1974 just to get some gas.

Again, not much shocks me anymore.


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## Irwin (Feb 23, 2022)

The average price for a house in Denver is now about $525,000... over half-a-million dollars! And that's for a little ranch house! Unreal! I guess that's one paradox of living in a city with a thriving tech economy; people want to move here for the jobs, but housing costs don't allow them to live much better than they did where the economy was in a slump.

The thing is, Denver isn't like other big cities where there are beautiful and fascinating cultural attractions such as what you find in Manhattan or San Francisco. The Denver metropolitan area consists mainly of barely constrained urban sprawl and gentrification spreading like a deadly pandemic that has killed off all the benefits of living in Colorado, such as access to wilderness areas in the mountains and ski resorts that are now only accessible to the wealthy and upper middle class due to the prohibitive cost of lift tickets and crowds.

Developers are constructing massive apartment and condo buildings, which is good. High density housing is the only way to go when land is at a premium. It just seems out of whack.


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## StarSong (Feb 24, 2022)

I feel your pain on this, @Irwin.  Housing prices are also out of control in Los Angeles communities, whether urban, suburban, exurban or rural.


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## oldmontana (Feb 24, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I drive a 4 cycliner Ford Focus and welcome the higher fuel prices.


The thing is we all pay more for almost everything we get because of higher gas prices....UPS, USPS, garbage pick up, etc all are up because cost of gas into the price we pay.

We only drive about 1,500 miles a year in our RAV4.  So the price we pay for our gas is no big deal.


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## AnnieA (Feb 24, 2022)

I'm staying overnight in  a Walmart parking lot tonight instead of a campground to make up for gas costs for the van.  Super nice area and other RVs are here.  I'm still going to go to campgrounds for leisure or when I need to dump waste tanks or refill water but can save at free  places when passing through for work.


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## Packerjohn (Feb 25, 2022)

Yes, bigger is better was the philosophy but with energy crisis, global warming, hyper inflation, massive overpopulation and perhaps another world war, can we still live by the old rules?  Perhaps "less is better" for the future; if there is a future?


Nosy Bee-54 said:


> Bigger is Better in America!


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## Packerjohn (Feb 25, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Crude oil futures hit almost $90 a barrel today....compared to what is normally about $40/B this time of year.  Some of the "experts" are saying that oil could reach well over $120/B as Spring arrives, and driving picks up.  In some States with high fuel taxes, such as California, that could translate into prices at the pump soaring well into the 5 or 6 dollars a gallon range.
> 
> Even if you don't drive, these prices will be reflected at the grocery stores, etc., as delivery charges increase.  Inflation is going to continue to be a problem, as a result, and affect those on a fixed income the most.  Sooo...start budgeting...


I was reading an article on the BBC website and they claim that the crude oil price is now $100/barrel.  Glad I don't drive a 4X4 with a V8 motor.  People around here are crying with some paying over $600/month on their daily commune to work.  Some sure are looking longingly at the Toyota Prius for a future trade-in for their gas guzzling monster.  That price ticket will be going up.  I'm glad to be retired and "just sitting around".


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## StarSong (Feb 25, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> I'm in a Walmart parking lot tonight instead of a campground to make up for gas costs for the van.  Super nice area and others are here.  I'm still going to go to campgrounds for leisure or when I need to dump waste tanks or refill water but can save at free  places when passing through for work.


We've boondocked overnight in a US BLM area in Quartzsite, Arizona.  Another time we had some RV trouble and stayed overnight in a park's parking lot in Medocino, CA.  Felt safe both times.  

Warning... Completely off topic:  
Funny aside on the Mendocino thing. We pulled off the freeway when a passerby pointed to our 5th wheel in a way that suggested we had a problem. We followed him off the freeway and pulled over on the exit. He suggested we pull into the park that was within visual range to sort it out there, and wished us well. 

Once in the parking lot a couple of people realized we were having problems and came over to see if they could help. One (who was experienced with horse trailers and RVs) immediately diagnosed our problem and recommended a nearby business to sort it out. She called the guy for us. He was on another emergency though and couldn't get to us before morning. By this time it was early dusk. 

Posted signs said the park was closed overnight, but she said if we explained (and showed our problem) to the local police who'd surely come to check, they'd probably let us remain. Which they did. About ten minutes after the cop locked the park gates the woman called my cell phone to ask if we were ok, and offered to let us come to their house and stay in their RV overnight. We declined but thanked her kindly. 

Shortly after someone else with a flashlight showed up. Turned out some of the mansions across the street had 24 hour armed security. This guy patrolled that handful o homes all night, making sure all was well. He promised to keep an eye on us, too. 

Early the following morning the repairman came, sorted us out for far less than we'd expected to pay, and we were on our way.

My point, and I do have one, is that kind, caring people are everywhere. Sometimes you don't even have to look for them - they just show up when you need them. 

@AnnieA, I hope when you're boondocking in Walmart parking lots and other freebie places that you run into the same friendly, helpful people we're encountered.


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## Don M. (Feb 25, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I was reading an article on the BBC website and they claim that the crude oil price is now $100/barrel.  Glad I don't drive a 4X4 with a V8 motor.  People around here are crying with some paying over $600/month on their daily commune to work.  Some sure are looking longingly at the Toyota Prius for a future trade-in for their gas guzzling monster.  That price ticket will be going up.  I'm glad to be retired and "just sitting around".



I doubt we will see crude oil futures going back down to $40/barrel, again, anytime soon.  Some "experts" are predicting $120/B by Summer as more people resume normal driving.  Big 4WD pickups have been the auto industries "cash cow" for decades, but a lot of people may have to start rethinking their choice of vehicles in coming years.


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## AnnieA (Feb 25, 2022)

StarSong said:


> We've boondocked overnight in a US BLM area in Quartzsite, Arizona.  Another time we had some RV trouble and stayed overnight in a park's parking lot in Medocino, CA.  Felt safe both times.
> 
> Warning... Completely off topic:
> Funny aside on the Mendocino thing. We pulled off the freeway when a passerby pointed to our 5th wheel in a way that suggested we had a problem. We followed him off the freeway and pulled over on the exit. He suggested we pull into the park that was within visual range to sort it out there, and wished us well.
> ...



Oh, I'd love to go back to Mendocino now that I have the van!  My profile pic was taken there.  

From what I've read, people with RV problems on the road find people to be very helpful. 

Back to the thread topic.... A lot of people bought RVs and campers over the past two years in order to vacation safely in the pandemic which drove RV prices sky high.  With inflation increasing and the end of the pandemic, my guess is that many will start selling.   A used RV is a smart choice if you hire an inspector to check it out before you buy


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## StarSong (Feb 25, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> Oh, I'd love to go back to Mendocino now that I have the van!  My profile pic was taken there.
> 
> From what I've read, people with RV problems on the road find people to be very helpful.
> 
> Back to the thread topic.... A lot of people bought RVs and campers over the past two years in order to vacation safely in the pandemic which drove RV prices sky high.  With inflation increasing and the end of the pandemic, my guess is that many will start selling.   A used RV is a smart choice if you hire an inspector to check it out before you buy


You're probably right about the used RV market opening up if there aren't more Covid spikes or variants during 2022.  Most people finance those purchases and those monthly payments will become a burdensome irritant for many who return to more traditional getaway habits.        

Seven years ago we paid cash for our gently used, warranted and inspected, ten year old RV (which we still love). Same with the used heavy-duty diesel pickup we'd already bought to haul it. Even with a few repairs over the years, we're still WAY ahead of the cost of buying new.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Feb 25, 2022)

I would think that someone who buys a Hummer, as an example, have the means to pay whatever for gas. I have a 4 cylinder Honda which works for me.


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## Liberty (Feb 26, 2022)

Don M. said:


> I doubt we will see crude oil futures going back down to $40/barrel, again, anytime soon.  Some "experts" are predicting $120/B by Summer as more people resume normal driving.  Big 4WD pickups have been the auto industries "cash cow" for decades, but a lot of people may have to start rethinking their choice of vehicles in coming years.


Been in Texas for 40 years and its boon and bust for oil prices.  The rodeo is going on right now!


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## Liberty (Feb 26, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> Yes, bigger is better was the philosophy but with energy crisis, global warming, hyper inflation, massive overpopulation and perhaps another world war, can we still live by the old rules?  Perhaps "less is better" for the future; if there is a future?


"Everything's bigger in Texas...including the oil wells...lol.


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## Packerjohn (Feb 26, 2022)

Liberty said:


> "Everything's bigger in Texas...including the oil wells...lol.


Oil wells may be bigger in Texas but these days Russia has the world's largest supply of natural gas.  Saudia Arabia has the world's largest supply of Crude Oil.  Lesson here is:  BE NICE TO RUSSIA AND SAUDIA ARABIA.  Nice lesson but Russia is expanding it's borders right now.  In Saudi Arabia, the Koran rules which presents certain problems for the ladies over there.


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## Remy (Feb 26, 2022)

I also drive a smaller car. Hop it holds out for a few more years with the car price increases.

I do notice people still driving like jerks. Passing me, gunning the engine so I can meet them at the next red light. I sure don't see people driving to conserve gas.


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## Leann (Feb 26, 2022)

I fill up my vehicle once a month. Yesterday I paid $3.79/gallon for unleaded regular. I have no doubt the price of gasoline, like everything else, will only go up.

On a related note, I have noticed that the grocery store shelves are filling up. For a long while there were empty spaces here and there but as I was walking up and down the store aisles a few days ago, it occurred to me that the shelves are now full. Of course the prices have been increased, unfortunately.


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## Knight (Feb 26, 2022)

Does a 20% increase in most food items seem about right?


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## StarSong (Feb 26, 2022)

Knight said:


> Does a 20% increase in most food items seem about right?


I'm observing between 10% - 40% (and some things more than that), so I'd agree 20% is a pretty accurate average.  Food is going up slowly and steadily.


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## Liberty (Feb 27, 2022)

Its interesting...some things like coffee have gone up and others like ground turkey have gone down.  Kroger has weekly specials and coupons that really cut the costs, like Jennie-o ground turkey, 1 lb. for $2.99.  That's cheaper than it used to be.  Think the household paper products have gone up.  Shopping the coupon/sales really helps.


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## JustinCase (Mar 2, 2022)

Noticed a small creep in my billing from Consumer Cellular with my last statement.  I had lowered my data plan from 3GB to 1GB which should have dropped my balance.  My balance actually went up, not a huge amount only $5.  There was an item listed as *auto pay opt out*, I dislike auto pay anyway, another loss of control. I went on my billing details, signed up for auto pay & the $5 charge disappeared.


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## Leann (Mar 2, 2022)

I had been contemplating cutting cable for about a year now and finally did it a few weeks back. I pay far less now for the few streaming services that I actually use and watch than I did for cable that had so many channels that had content that was of no interest to me. I also reduced my cell phone data plan, cut back on my driving by combining trips when I do go out, selling some things that still have a bit of value but are of no use to me, have switched from a rather expensive (for me) hair salon for my monthly cut and color to a local shop that charges a nominal fee for a simple trim and I color my own hair now and probably another 6 or 7 changes that I'll think of after I post this. 

It's an ever-evolving process with more to come, I'm sure.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Mar 2, 2022)

I went ahead and filled up the vehicles and cans used for lawn mowers, etc. This should last me about 3 months. Not a big deal, but the national average for gasoline is almost certainly going to punch through the 2008 record highs and might be 60¢ a gallon higher than current... within in a month. Regrettably, such prices tend to impact the thought processes of Americans of all stripes, much more than groceries... for some reason.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Mar 2, 2022)

Oil/gas prices normally rise with the slightest hiccup. I think I've seen it when a tanker leaks at sea and with hurricanes. So it's not surprising that prices would go up when a major producer like Russia is in the crosshair of other nations.

Also, I read where Russia is #3 and Ukraine is #9 in wheat production. So the occupation and if there are sanctions on wheat, that could have worldwide implications on cereals, bread and etc.


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 2, 2022)

It's impossible to find a straight answer on the hodgepodge of United States oil imports/exports, but according to this, we were a net exporter of petroleum products in 2020.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq....Crude oil exports of about,0.63 MMb/d in 2020.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Mar 2, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> It's impossible to find a straight answer on the hodgepodge of United States oil imports/exports, but according to this, we were a net exporter of petroleum products in 2020.


https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=WTTNTUS2&f=W
We are currently a net importer, although last week indicated 922,000 barrels per day net exporter.


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## StarSong (Mar 7, 2022)

Higher fuel costs will bump prices on virtually everything.


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## Uptosnuff (Mar 8, 2022)

Devi said:


> Also, my understanding is that one of the ways to create electricity is through the use of coal.


Yep, you've got that right.  Especially in the middle of the U.S. The electric utility I used to work for uses coal as their main fuel.  They are working on more solar and wind power generation but coal is simply the most dependable, reliable fuel source.  And the cheapest.  There is a cost for solar and wind generation.


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## squatting dog (Mar 8, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> Oh, I'd love to go back to Mendocino now that I have the van!  My profile pic was taken there.
> 
> From what I've read, people with RV problems on the road find people to be very helpful.
> 
> Back to the thread topic.... A lot of people bought RVs and campers over the past two years in order to vacation safely in the pandemic which drove RV prices sky high.  With inflation increasing and the end of the pandemic, my guess is that many will start selling.   A used RV is a smart choice if you hire an inspector to check it out before you buy


Whenever we're on the road, we always try to help fellow rv'ers. Last time, it was  the BLM spot in Havasu. Poor guy needed repairs on his van. Seems like we always travel with enough stuff to rebuild or repair most anything while on the road. We live by the "always play it forward" code.


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## AnnieA (Mar 8, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Whenever we're on the road, we always try to help fellow rv'ers. Last time, it was  the BLM spot in Havasu. Poor guy needed repairs on his van. Seems like we always travel with enough stuff to rebuild or repair most anything while on the road. We live by the "always play it forward" code.
> 
> View attachment 212180 View attachment 212181



I'm about finished with my repair/replace purchases.  I figure if something breaks on a trip and I have the part, some nice guy like you might be able to install it!  A replacement pump for the shower and the gray tank is one of the first purchases I made. Since Winnebago has to fit things where they'll go in a Class B, the shower (wet bath) has a pump to transfer water from the shower pan to the gray tank ..then the gray tank has an exterior pump at the sewer dump outlet and there's no way to empty the gray tank if that pump goes out. Thankfully, Winnebago did use the same pump for draining both the shower and the gray tank and the replacement pump travels with me! I also carry a transfer switch box, some fuses and plumbing clamps. Last thing I need is an alternator belt that seems to be an issue with Promasters.


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## StarSong (Mar 8, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> I'm about finished with my repair/replace purchases.  I figure if something breaks on a trip and I have the part, some nice guy like you might be able to install it!  A replacement pump for the shower and the gray tank is one of the first purchases I made. Since Winnebago has to fit things where they'll go in a Class B, the shower (wet bath) has a pump to transfer water from the shower pan to the gray tank ..then the gray tank has an exterior pump at the sewer dump outlet and there's no way to empty the gray tank if that pump goes out. Thankfully, Winnebago did use the same pump for draining both the shower and the gray tank and the replacement pump travels with me! I also carry a transfer switch box, some fuses and plumbing clamps. Last thing I need is an alternator belt that seems to be an issue with Promasters.


Interesting that your gray and sewer tanks require a pump.  Our used water goes into their designated tanks via gravity and empty the same way.  Gray water (shower and bathroom sink), black water (toilet) and galley (kitchen sink) tanks require no pumps to fill or empty.

Our RV underbelly is loaded with just-in-case spare parts for ourselves and others. It seems to be the RV way!


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## AnnieA (Mar 8, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Interesting that your gray and sewer tanks require a pump.  Our used water goes into their designated tanks via gravity and empty the same way.  Gray water (shower and bathroom sink), black water (toilet) and galley (kitchen sink) tanks require no pumps to fill or empty.



The pumps are due to its being a Class B.  RV companies purchase cargo vans, then have to fit all the RV components  into a super small space.  They can go a few inches underneath the floor of the vans but that's all.  The wet bath is on the other side of the van from the gray tank so needs a shower drain pump.  I'm not sure why the pump is needed to empty the gray tank but that going out is my biggest worry since the Class B tanks are really small.


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## StarSong (Mar 8, 2022)

I had to look up Winnebago wet bath to learn what that is.  

Do you use the wet bath only when boondocking or staying at campsites without showering facilities?  The wet bath setup doesn't seem the most ideal situation but would be a lot better than nothing.


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## AnnieA (Mar 8, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I had to look up Winnebago wet bath to learn what that is.
> 
> Do you use the wet bath only when boondocking or staying at campsites without showering facilities?  The wet bath setup doesn't seem the most ideal situation but would be a lot better than nothing.



I use it all the time since I bought it Dec 2020.  May start using campground facilities now that Covid is waning.  I made a "Caravan RV" thread in the Travel forum and put a video of the bath in that thread.

Caravan and RV thread


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## StarSong (Mar 8, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> I use it all the time since I bought it Dec 2020.  May start using campground facilities now that Covid is waning. * I made a "Caravan RV" thread in the Travel forum and put a video of the bath in that thread.*


Thanks!  I'll check it out.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Mar 8, 2022)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> Not a big deal, but the national average for gasoline is almost certainly going to punch through the 2008 record highs and might be 60¢ a gallon higher than current... within in a month.


That was on March 2nd and it is already 60¢ higher. Bad news is another 40¢ is on the way.


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