# People of Color, Innocent or Non Violent Who Were Killed By Police



## OneEyedDiva (Jun 15, 2020)

It's with a heavy heart that I start this thread. In fact, I meant to start it a week ago but I had to take a break from all of the news concerning the George Floyd case and similar events. I have seen comments by Forum members who seem to feel that if Mr. Floyd wasn't committing a crime, he wouldn't have been killed by police. @rgp even had the nerve to reply that I was making up the fact that several innocent people (of color) have died at the hands of police. As the saying goes "you can't make this s**t up"! I wouldn't want to make up something so heartbreaking anyway. There are many who's tragic stories stand out and I can't post them all in the OP but will keep adding them to this thread.  

First let me start with two cases that broke my heart when my son was just 3 years old. I don't know their names because it was 49 years ago. The major news channels didn't feel these stories were newsworthy back then. Jet magazine a publication by Black print media mogul Johnson Publications carried the stories. 
~An *8 year old boy *and his father were out for a stroll one evening. A cop shot the little boy claiming he "looked like the perp".  WTF??!! The cop was never charged. 
~A *14 year old boy* stole a bike. He was riding away from the police when the cop shot him in the back. This boy had no gun and posed no threat to the officer. Did he deserve to die for stealing a bike?
~In my hometown, a *15 year old* brown skinned Hispanic boy was busted for smoking marijuana. This was in the early 1980's.  He was taken down by two officers and was on the ground, hands over his head, face up. The cop shot and killed that boy point blank in cold blood. Again he posed no threat according to witnesses. Again...no charges for the officers.
~Fast forward to the horrific 1999 *Amadou Diallo* case in New York City.  Mr. Diallo was shot 19 times (41 shots fired) by plainclothes officers who mistook him for a rape suspect as he arrived home from having a meal. A witness said that they didn't give a warning before starting to shoot, claiming that Diallo reached for a gun in his pocket when in fact he was reaching for his wallet. No gun was found on him. The officers were charged with 2nd degree murder and acquitted.
~In March of this year *Breonna Taylor* was in her bed sleeping when plain clothes cops, operating on a "no knock search warrant" busted into her apartment. Her boyfriend got his gun, thinking it was a home invasion was in progress since the officers didn't identify themselves. The commotion brought Breonna out of her room and she was shot 8 times and killed. It turns out that the two people they were looking for were already in custody!

~In 2018, 26 year old *Botham Jean* was sitting his his own apartment watching T.V. and eating ice cream when police officer Amber Guyger burst in, shot and killed him. She claimed she thought he was an intruder in her apartment. Another WTF??!! She lived on a completely different floor and would a burglar really be watching T.V. and eating ice cream rather than getting the hell out of there? How does a trained police officer mistake someone else's apartment for her own? Her alcohol and drug testing results were not released. She was eventually charged with murder and sentenced to 10 years. In a gesture I'm not sure I could have made, the victims brother forgave her then hugged her in court as did the judge (yet another WTF!).

~*Philando Castile* was pulled over during what should have been a routine traffic stop in 2016 . He had his girlfriend and 4 year old daughter in the car. He informed the officer that he did have a firearm in the car which was licensed. The officer told him don't reach for it and he said he wouldn't. The officer then asked for his license and registration. Mr. Castile tried to tell the officer he was reaching for the requested items when he was fired on 8 times at close range; he was hit 5 times. His girlfriend recorded the entire event and it was posted on Facebook. The officer was charged but acquitted. No surprise.  I just want to note that after he killed Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman was caught riding around with a gun on the seat of his car. He is still alive after that traffic stop.

~*Kwame Jones*, 17 was killed in January of this year under suspicious circumstances after a traffic stop. Cops fired several shots into the car killing Kwame and wounding his friend. The cop claimed a rifle was in the car but didn't say either of the boys reached for it, if it was in fact there. His parents are suspicious of that claim due to the photo "evidence" they were shown.
~*Anthony Hill*, an Air Force veteran, was unarmed and naked when he was killed at 26 years old in March of 2015. Former officer Robert Olsen was found guilty of aggravated assault, one count of making false statements and two counts of violation of oath by a public officer — but not murder or manslaughter.

~*Jamarion Robinson* was killed by police in East Point, Georgia, in August of 2016. He was shot 76 times after refusing to open the door of his girlfriend’s home when officers knocked. Police then kicked in the door and began firing.


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## Pecos (Jun 15, 2020)

OneEyedDiva,

Thank you for your excellent post. My heart is with you.


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## Pepper (Jun 15, 2020)

Ditto what Pecos said.  I am very angry over the throw away status of Black Lives.  It's sickening, disgusting, and enough is enough.


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## asp3 (Jun 15, 2020)

Thank you for posting that.


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## win231 (Jun 15, 2020)

One of the aspects of police work is that it attracts people who crave power & control.  It also attracts racists who can exercise & express their hatred through brutality - and often get away with it under the guise of "Fighting Crime," & at the same time, be admired as a hero because many (ignorant) people view any cop as a hero.


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## Butterfly (Jun 15, 2020)

And don't forget that young black man Rayshard Brooks who was killed by cops over the weekend at the Wendy's in Atlanta.  This stuff just keeps on happening.


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## Been There (Jun 15, 2020)

Here's two more from Colliers County, Florida that I recall doing research on:

Terrance Williams and Felipe Santos both were involved in separate incidents with the same Deputy Sheriff. Both went missing after *"being given a ride to a gas station not far from where they were picked up"*  so states Deputy Steve Calkins in Naples, Florida.

Google the names. Very interesting cases.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 15, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> It's with a heavy heart that I start this thread. In fact, I meant to start it a week ago but I had to take a break from all of the news concerning the George Floyd case and similar events. I have seen comments by Forum members who seem to feel that if Mr. Floyd wasn't committing a crime, he wouldn't have been killed by police. @rgp even had the nerve to reply that I was making up the fact that several innocent people (of color) have died at the hands of police. As the saying goes "you can't make this s**t up"! I wouldn't want to make up something so heartbreaking anyway. There are many who's tragic stories stand out and I can't post them all in the OP but will keep adding them to this thread.
> 
> First let me start with two cases that broke my heart when my son was just 3 years old. I don't know their names because it was 49 years ago. The major news channels didn't feel these stories were newsworthy back then. Jet magazine a publication by Black print media mogul Johnson Publications carried the stories.
> ~An *8 year old boy *and his father were out for a stroll one evening. A cop shot the little boy claiming he "looked like the perp".  WTF??!! The cop was never charged.
> ...


I would have turned into a vigilante had I been personally affected by these crimes. An eye for an eye.


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## Warrigal (Jun 15, 2020)

Sadly, even I have heard of a number of those cases from the other side of the world. Sadly, there are similar stories in my own backyard. 

You have my sympathies, OneEyedDiva, because I hear your pain. All of us who recognise injustice must never give consent by being silent in the face of  such evil.

Aunt Marg, I would probably feel the same way.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 15, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Sadly, even I have heard of a number of those cases from the other side of the world. Sadly, there are similar stories in my own backyard.
> 
> You have my sympathies, OneEyedDiva, because I hear your pain. All of us who recognise injustice must never give consent by being silent in the face of  such evil.
> 
> Aunt Marg, I would probably feel the same way.


Warrigal. The one that really gets me, knowing you are from Australia, is the case of Justine Damond/Ruszczyk.


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## Warrigal (Jun 15, 2020)

Yes, Aunt Marg, but I don't think racism was behind that shooting. I think it does illustrate the charge that the Minneapolis police were out of control though.

When it happened the thought did cross my mind that this is one policeman who may not get away with it because of his name. It sounded Middle Eastern, possibly Syrian? Turns out his background is Somali so perhaps there was some racism in the eventual outcome after all.


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## peramangkelder (Jun 15, 2020)




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## rgp (Jun 16, 2020)

win231 said:


> One of the aspects of police work is that it attracts people who crave power & control.  It also attracts racists who can exercise & express their hatred through brutality - and often get away with it under the guise of "Fighting Crime," & at the same time, be admired as a hero because many (ignorant) people view any cop as a hero.




 Is that learned from all your years serving as a police officer ? Or all those years on the other side ?

 You really seem to think you're quite the expert. I'm just curious where you received your education.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 16, 2020)

I have a different point of view of this thread.

I think this thread is political unless you include ALL innocent deaths committed by the police.  In other words, many Innocent people with WHITE skin have died at the hands of the police.  Where are you including those deaths?

Or, don’t the deaths of WHITE people matter?  What about the deaths of American Indians?  Asians?  Samoans?  Italians?  Include the deaths of ALL INNOCENT people killed by the police and you have, IMO, a non political thread.  Otherwise, IMO, you don’t.

There is a lot of knee bending and placating going on in our country now.  This is being done to calm the masses and try and avoid more riots, looting, and civil unrest.  I, like many, believe the backlash will be severe.

I care when innocent people die.  I don’t care what color of skin the innocent person had.  However, all the knee bending and placating makes me .  Using these deaths to put forth a political agenda makes me .  And I am not going to pretend that I care more about an innocent black life than I do about an innocent white life.  I don’t.


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## Warrigal (Jun 16, 2020)

Aneeda, I am fair skinned and I think the underlying lament in this thread is racism.
This is has not been my lived experience so I do not see the need for the OP to list every "WHITE skin"  death at the hands of the police. It is true that there are many such deaths but somehow I do not think they are equivalent in kind.

The history of black (ie indigenous) deaths in custody in Australia is horrific and in spite of numerous inquiries and reports, it does not get any better. It needs to be fixed. Things need to change. We whites would be screaming blue bloody murder if we were the victims. We whites need to support our brothers and sisters of colour because if we don't, thing will not get better any time soon.


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## Mahatma (Jun 16, 2020)

the fact the BLM has gone world wide, whether we agree or not cant and shouldnt detract from Divas post
it is a heart rending post about certain folk, black or white something needs to be done about certain police officers
they should not be trusted with a starters pistol, never mind an automatic
and if a drunk had broken into my sons house and shot because the mistook him for a burgler in his own house, well i might just be saving up for a shotgun and a bottle of whisky ready for when the drunk got released...


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 16, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Aneeda, I am fair skinned and I think the underlying lament in this thread is racism.
> This is has not been my lived experience so I do not see the need for the OP to list every "WHITE skin"  death at the hands of the police. It is true that there are many such deaths but somehow I do not think they are equivalent in kind.
> 
> The history of black (ie indigenous) deaths in custody in Australia is horrific and in spite of numerous inquiries and reports, it does not get any better. It needs to be fixed. Things need to change. We whites would be screaming blue bloody murder if we were the victims. We whites need to support our brothers and sisters of colour because if we don't, thing will not get better any time soon.


No, we whites, in the USA, wouldn‘t.

I can’t remember even one time when whites, all over our country, banned together and rioted because a policeman killed an innocent white person.  As for supporting our “brothers and sisters of color”, It’s a meaningless phrase, made by people in power to control the masses.

I would not even pretend to understand the racial situation In Australia, since the white people stole that country, as they stole this country, as they stole other countries.


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## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

win231 said:


> One of the aspects of police work is that it attracts people who crave power & control.  It also attracts racists who can exercise & express their hatred through brutality - and often get away with it under the guise of "Fighting Crime," & at the same time, be admired as a hero because many (ignorant) people view any cop as a hero.



Do you have any scientific or statistical evidence to support that observation?  Or are you just talking through your hat?  I know lots of cops and none of them are racists or bullies.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 16, 2020)

Mahatma said:


> the fact the BLM has gone world wide, whether we agree or not cant and shouldnt detract from Divas post
> it is a heart rending post about certain folk, black or white something needs to be done about certain police officers
> they should not be trusted with a starters pistol, never mind an automatic
> and if a drunk had broken into my sons house and shot because the mistook him for a burgler in his own house, well i might just be saving up for a shotgun and a bottle of whisky ready for when the drunk got released...


Yes, I agree something needs to be done about certain police officers.  But the thread is not about certain police officers.  It’s a black lives matter thread, IMO, and that makes it political.

I suppose I could make a thread about innocent white people killed by police.  Or, better yet, how about a thread about innocent white people killed by Guilty black people?  Or a thread about how black people, for the most part, don‘t adopt black children or participate in foster care as much as white people?

Or, etc.  But I won’t, because I don’t care about what black people do vs. what white people do.  I care about what people do.  If a drunk guy breaks into my house, no matter what his color, I am running out the back door as fast as possible.


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## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> And don't forget that young black man Rayshard Brooks who was killed by cops over the weekend at the Wendy's in Atlanta.  This stuff just keeps on happening.




I'm sorry, but as soon as you fall asleep drunk in a Wendy's drive-through line, vigorously resist arrest, steal an officer's Taser and then shoot at him with it, you have crossed a line of some sort.  The cop who shot Mr. Brooks may have made a split-second error in judgment - and if so he should be punished -  but it's quite possible he thought his partner's life was in danger.  After all, if his partner was incapacitated, then a drunken, violent Rayshard Brooks could easily have taken his pistol as well.  This situation was very different from the one involving George Floyd.  

All this hand-wringing about whose lives matter is absurd.  The "black community" doesn't exist. Blacks murder other black people at atrocious rates (over 90 percent of US murders are black on black).  They commit the majority of violent crimes, despite being only 12 percent of the population.  They have destroyed the structure of the family with 75 percent illegitimacy rates.  

If black lives really mattered, black people would urge each other to emulate the family structures, work ethic, respect for law, and embrace of education displayed by Asian-Americans.  Then maybe they could out-earn white people, just as Asians do.  

But that's hard to do. It's a lot easier to yammer on about "systemic racism" and burn down the local Wendy's.


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## Sassycakes (Jun 16, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> It's with a heavy heart that I start this thread. In fact, I meant to start it a week ago but I had to take a break from all of the news concerning the George Floyd case and similar events. I have seen comments by Forum members who seem to feel that if Mr. Floyd wasn't committing a crime, he wouldn't have been killed by police. @rgp even had the nerve to reply that I was making up the fact that several innocent people (of color) have died at the hands of police. As the saying goes "you can't make this s**t up"! I wouldn't want to make up something so heartbreaking anyway. There are many who's tragic stories stand out and I can't post them all in the OP but will keep adding them to this thread.
> 
> First let me start with two cases that broke my heart when my son was just 3 years old. I don't know their names because it was 49 years ago. The major news channels didn't feel these stories were newsworthy back then. Jet magazine a publication by Black print media mogul Johnson Publications carried the stories.
> ~An *8 year old boy *and his father were out for a stroll one evening. A cop shot the little boy claiming he "looked like the perp".  WTF??!! The cop was never charged.
> ...



*@OneEyedDiva ,Very well said and I agree with you 100%.*


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## rgp (Jun 16, 2020)

JimBob 1952 ..... Very well said, and i agree with you !


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## win231 (Jun 16, 2020)

rgp said:


> Is that learned from all your years serving as a police officer ? Or all those years on the other side ?
> 
> You really seem to think you're quite the expert. I'm just curious where you received your education.


Speaking of education, it looks like you finally learned the difference between "Your" and "You're."  Congratulations!


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 16, 2020)

win231 said:


> Speaking of education, it looks like you finally learned the difference between "Your" and "You're."  Congratulations!


Actually problems like that are usually computer generated as we all know.  iPhones are especially bad at changing what we write.  If you didn’t know this, CONGRATULATIONS!  @win231 now you do.


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## Sunny (Jun 16, 2020)

Only one CONGRATULATION, Aneeda?  Isn't that word usually plural?  Come on, can't you muster up even a second CONGRATULATION?  Wow, talk about stingy. 

Win, I think you deserve a second one.  So I'll give it to you.  (Trust Aneeda to not even get an attempt at sarcasm right!)

About the latest attempt by the far-righters here to deflect away from the truth, it would be interesting to see statistics on the number of black people shot by the police, especially when they are doing nothing wrong, and compare it to the number of white people similarly treated.  This whole thing has the stink of slavery days and Jim Crow laws. Anyone who can't see that has blinders on,


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## Keesha (Jun 16, 2020)

deleted. Didn’t sound right.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 16, 2020)

Every two to three weeks, there is another unarmed black guy getting killed by police. I don't believe this is necessarily a  primarily racially motivated occurrence. Black guy kills a black guy = nobody cares. White guy kills a white guy=, again, nobody cares. Cop kills a black guy= riots. Sounds like racism, but police kill way more whites than blacks. I don't know the circumstance for cop on white killings, but I assume they are pretty much the same for blacks. So, if some cop on black killings are questionable, then some cop on white killings are also questionable. To me, that signifies that there is a generic problem with police procedures, and practice. In a recent cop on black killing, police surrounded a car with a black driver. The police were on the other side of the car's windows, they shouted "He got a gun. He got a gun". They could plainly see all he had was a phone in his hands. It was pure cover your ass. It points to that cowboy, shoot em up attitude.
I'm not denying racism. I couldn't remember the driver's name from above, but when I googled "white cop kills blacks", there were just so many names, I couldn't wade through them all. And I do believe being a police officer is extremely dangerous profession. And that's what some lack, professionalism.
Also,  by now,the two officers should have been able to handle a drunk. He's obviously intoxicated. He should have been  arrested, cuffed, and on his way to jail, right after they determined he was drunk.


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## Keesha (Jun 16, 2020)

peramangkelder said:


> View attachment 109799


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## Sunny (Jun 16, 2020)

OK, I googled, and found the following:

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

It says in 2019, blacks were 24% of the number of people killed by police, despite being 13% of the population.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 16, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Every two to three weeks, there is another unarmed black guy getting killed by police. I don't believe this is necessarily a  primarily racially motivated occurrence. Black guy kills a black guy = nobody cares. White guy kills a white guy=, again, nobody cares. Cop kills a black guy= riots. Sounds like racism, but police kill way more whites than blacks. I don't know the circumstance for cop on white killings, but I assume they are pretty much the same for blacks. So, if some cop on black killings are questionable, then some cop on white killings are also questionable. To me, that signifies that there is a generic problem with police procedures, and practice. In a recent cop on black killing, police surrounded a car with a black driver. The police were on the other side of the car's windows, they shouted "He got a gun. He got a gun". They could plainly see all he had was a phone in his hands. It was pure cover your ass. It points to that cowboy, shoot em up attitude.
> I'm not denying racism. I couldn't remember the driver's name from above, but when I googled "white cop kills blacks", there were just so many names, I couldn't wade through them all. And I do believe being a police officer is extremely dangerous profession. And that's what some lack, professionalism.
> Also,  by now,the two officers should have been able to handle a drunk. He's obviously intoxicated. He should have been  arrested, cuffed, and on his way to jail, right after they determined he was drunk.


And the family saying he was on the way to take his daughter skating for her birthday, while he was drunk?


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## Mahatma (Jun 16, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Every two to three weeks, there is another unarmed black guy getting killed by police. I don't believe this is necessarily a  primarily racially motivated occurrence. Black guy kills a black guy = nobody cares. White guy kills a white guy=, again, nobody cares. Cop kills a black guy= riots. Sounds like racism, but police kill way more whites than blacks. I don't know the circumstance for cop on white killings, but I assume they are pretty much the same for blacks. So, if some cop on black killings are questionable, then some cop on white killings are also questionable. To me, that signifies that there is a generic problem with police procedures, and practice. In a recent cop on black killing, police surrounded a car with a black driver. The police were on the other side of the car's windows, they shouted "He got a gun. He got a gun". They could plainly see all he had was a phone in his hands. It was pure cover your ass. It points to that cowboy, shoot em up attitude.
> I'm not denying racism. I couldn't remember the driver's name from above, but when I googled "white cop kills blacks", there were just so many names, I couldn't wade through them all. And I do believe being a police officer is extremely dangerous profession. And that's what some lack, professionalism.
> Also,  by now,the two officers should have been able to handle a drunk. He's obviously intoxicated. He should have been  arrested, cuffed, and on his way to jail, right after they determined he was drunk.


i must agree if two officers with tazers cant restrain a drunk then they should hand in their papers, also why cant a trained police officer hit a fleeing man in the legs from ten yards, surely their ability to use their weapons must be tested before they are issued to them...


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## AnnieA (Jun 16, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I have a different point of view of this thread.



Surprised ...not.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 16, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> Surprised ...not.


Yup, I don’t follow the herd screaming how I deeply I care about people who have black skin.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 16, 2020)

Mahatma said:


> i must agree if two officers with tazers cant restrain a drunk then they should hand in their papers, also why cant a trained police officer hit a fleeing man in the legs from ten yards, surely their ability to use their weapons must be tested before they are issued to them...


I guess you could compare it to a baseball major league pitcher who makes millions of dollars, trains a lot, yet manages to throw balls that walk players or create fouls that players hit.  You can not win them all.


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## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

Sunny said:


> OK, I googled, and found the following:
> 
> https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
> 
> It says in 2019, blacks were 24% of the number of people killed by police, despite being 13% of the population.



Surprised it's that low, considering the fact that blacks commit more than half of all violent crimes, despite being 13% of the population.  

Look, I don't think any sane person would argue that we need to re-think police training, recruitment and tactics.  Or the criminal justice system as a whole.  We have far too many incarcerated people, and that includes too many young black people. 

But the root of the problem (to me) is a dysfunctional culture of illegitimacy, absent fathers, drug and alcohol abuse, violence and crime. 

Was that culture caused by slavery, racism and Jim Crow laws?  No doubt.  

Can it be fixed by eliminating police misconduct?  No.  (That doesn't mean misconduct and injustice shouldn't be addressed).

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that the answer begins with acknowledging all facets of the problem.


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## Pepper (Jun 16, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Or a thread about how black people, for the most part, don‘t adopt black children or participate in foster care as much as white people?


I don't mean to be petty when this thread is so very serious, But:
It depends on locality.  I worked in adoption and foster care for years in New York City and only a tiny percentage of our foster parents, many of whom adopted their kids, were something other than black. Just FYI.  I'll bet the same is true in Chicago and most other large urban areas.


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## Keesha (Jun 16, 2020)

Can’t members express empathy and compassion for others without being criticized?


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## Sunny (Jun 16, 2020)

Apparently not, Keesha.  Expressing empathy and compassion is seen by some here as "screaming how deeply you care about people who have black skin."


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## 911 (Jun 16, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Every two to three weeks, there is another unarmed black guy getting killed by police. I don't believe this is necessarily a  primarily racially motivated occurrence. Black guy kills a black guy = nobody cares. White guy kills a white guy=, again, nobody cares. Cop kills a black guy= riots. Sounds like racism, but police kill way more whites than blacks. I don't know the circumstance for cop on white killings, but I assume they are pretty much the same for blacks. So, if some cop on black killings are questionable, then some cop on white killings are also questionable. To me, that signifies that there is a generic problem with police procedures, and practice. In a recent cop on black killing, police surrounded a car with a black driver. The police were on the other side of the car's windows, they shouted "He got a gun. He got a gun". They could plainly see all he had was a phone in his hands. It was pure cover your ass. It points to that cowboy, shoot em up attitude.
> I'm not denying racism. I couldn't remember the driver's name from above, but when I googled "white cop kills blacks", there were just so many names, I couldn't wade through them all. And I do believe being a police officer is extremely dangerous profession. And that's what some lack, professionalism.
> Also,  by now,the two officers should have been able to handle a drunk. He's obviously intoxicated. He should have been  arrested, cuffed, and on his way to jail, right after they determined he was drunk.


This isn’t always the case. I am not a geneticist or even know a lot about the human anatomy, but for whatever reason, some people gain strength from drinking. Of course, if the drunk is completely sf, then it’s a different story. After all, alcohol is a depressant. I have seen men with half a load on that could probably lift the backend of a car. Others may not be able to lift a newspaper.

With this case, if the trial is held outside of Atlanta, the DA may have a tough road to hoe to prove any degree of murder. If the trial is held in Atlanta, I’m afraid the cop’s goose is cooked. I do believe the Mayor acted on emotion. She forgot that everyone is to be afforded due process, which includes an investigation and not just viewing a video. The Coroner declaring the death a homicide was also a rush to judgment. I think these people may have painted themselves into a corner.

If you carefully watch the video and use a stopwatch, you will find out that the time it took the perp to point the gun and the cop to react was just about a second. That’s not a lot of time to make a decision when your life ‘may’ be on the line. The other point is about the shot taken. When an officer is in pursuit and is shot at, his only objective is to then to stop the threat.


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## Keesha (Jun 16, 2020)

911 said:


> When an officer is in pursuit and is shot at, his only objective is to then to stop the threat.


Can the officers not stop a threat without killing the person? Shoot them in the legs, butt, arm etc?


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## Pepper (Jun 16, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Can the officers not stop a threat without killing the person? Shoot them in the legs, butt, arm etc?


The cops had his car.  They knew who he was.  They knew where to find him.  Shooting him for sleeping off booze is (fill in the blank)


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## Keesha (Jun 16, 2020)

Pepper said:


> Shooting him for sleeping off booze is (fill in the blank)


Overkill?


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## Pepper (Jun 16, 2020)

They could have called a relative to come pick him up.  There was no point in arresting him.  I lived in rural areas.  I've known many a white person who just pulled over somewhere to sleep it off & no legal interventions were ever involved, even when spotted by local police.


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## AnnieA (Jun 16, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Yup, I don’t follow the herd screaming how I deeply I care about people who have black skin.



Not in a herd, sweetie.  Just do care deeply about a lot of people who have black skin.   OneEyedDiva happens to be one here and I respect the pain she felt in compiling the information for the post.  I can't pretend to say I know how she feels, but I can say I hurt for her hurts.  In real life there's Jessica, Maggie, Kenyata, Jaleel, Mac, Sylvester (x2), Yolanda (x2), Lou Ida, Cierra, Cameron, Fannie, Lola, Jamella, Lucy, Rick to name those I care the most for.  If any one of these friends called me up and asked me to stand with them peacefully, I would do it in a heartbeat.


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## Keesha (Jun 16, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> Not in a herd, sweetie.  Just do care deeply about a lot of people who have black skin.   OneEyedDiva happens to be one here and I respect the pain she felt in compiling the information for the post.  I can't pretend to say I know how she feels, but I can say I hurt for her hurts.  In real life there's Jessica, Maggie, Kenyata, Jaleel, Mac, Sylvester (x2), Yolanda (x2), Lou Ida, Cierra, Cameron, Fannie, Lola, Jamella, Lucy, Rick to name those I care the most for.  If any one of these friends called me up and asked me to stand with them peacefully, I would do it in a heartbeat.


Thank you. You’re far better at expressing words for others to understand than I am. Nothing wrong with caring deeply for others when they need it most no matter what colour. It’s a loving human trait which ‘most’ can relate to.


----------



## fuzzybuddy (Jun 16, 2020)

I question the police actions before he bolted. They determined that suspect was impaired, probably due to alcohol detoxification. His well being became their responsibility at that moment. While  his cooperation may have aided the police, the suspect should have been cuffed, and under control. Neither happened, and he bolted.
As far as racism is concerned, in the heat of the moment, if a white suspect acted in the same way, would that be a factor. Who knows?


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jun 16, 2020)

Pepper said:


> I don't mean to be petty when this thread is so very serious, But:
> It depends on locality.  I worked in adoption and foster care for years in New York City and only a tiny percentage of our foster parents, many of whom adopted their kids, were something other than black. Just FYI.  I'll bet the same is true in Chicago and most other large urban areas.


I agree.  It depends on locality.

I also remember a court case allowing white people to adopt black children because too many were raised in foster care due to the fact that not enough black people were adopting black children.  This opened the door for race not to be a consideration for adoption to a certain extent.

Black people can adopt white children, white people can adopt black children, a good thing.  But it was black people who wanted their children raised in foster care rather than be adopted by white families.  Who are/were the racists in this situation?

I remember when bi-racial children of a black/white mix were called Oreos by the black community.  Black on the outside, white on the inside.  Who are/were the racists here?  I could go on but why bother.  Racism goes both ways, no race is innocent.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

Pepper said:


> The cops had his car.  They knew who he was.  They knew where to find him.  Shooting him for sleeping off booze is (fill in the blank)


Shooting him for sleeping off booze is murder.  Shooting him for violently resisting arrest, stealing an officer's Taser and trying to use it on said officer is probably not murder in the legal sense.  They are calling it "lawful but awful" and that sounds about right.  
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Em in Ohio (Jun 16, 2020)

Thanks for the information.  I have a folder on my desktop where it will be saved:  Social Injustice.  

My view is that the police aren't supposed to be judge, jury, and executioners.  Yet, that's how many seem to view their jobs.

Why don't we take away their bullets and replace them with tranquilizer darts?


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## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Can the officers not stop a threat without killing the person? Shoot them in the legs, butt, arm etc?


That's not realistic.  It's hard to hit a moving target under any circumstances.  Throw in nighttime, adrenaline, etc.  and aiming at an arm or a leg is impossible.


----------



## Keesha (Jun 16, 2020)

JimBob1952 said:


> That's not realistic.  It's hard to hit a moving target under any circumstances.  Throw in nighttime, adrenaline, etc.  and aiming at an arm or a leg is impossible.


Yet their aim is good enough for an instance kill?


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

Pepper said:


> They could have called a relative to come pick him up.  There was no point in arresting him.  I lived in rural areas.  I've known many a white person who just pulled over somewhere to sleep it off & no legal interventions were ever involved, even when spotted by local police.



If he had pulled over to sleep it off, he might have been ok.  Instead he passed out in the Wendy's drive-through lane and a black "Karen" called the police to complain.  

In my day, the manager of the Wendy's would have dealt with the problem by waking him up, driving his car into a parking place, giving him a cup of coffee and sending him on to his sister's house.  Now everybody is afraid of everything so they call the police.


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## Pepper (Jun 16, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Yet their aim is good enough for an instance kill?


There was no reason to shoot him when they had his car and knew who he was and where to find him, even though he had a non-lethal taser on him.


----------



## win231 (Jun 16, 2020)

JimBob1952 said:


> That's not realistic.  It's hard to hit a moving target under any circumstances.  Throw in nighttime, adrenaline, etc.  and aiming at an arm or a leg is impossible.


Also, increases the chances for misses - which endanger innocent bystanders.


----------



## Pepper (Jun 16, 2020)

win231 said:


> Also, increases the chances for misses - which endanger innocent bystanders.


Which is why a gun should not have been used.  His crime was a panic attack.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Yet their aim is good enough for an instance kill?


They are taught this:  If you shoot, shoot "center mass" (largest area of the body).   Least chance of missing and having the bullet go elsewhere.  Or of having a large, angry, drunken man grab your gun and using it on you.  

Don't get me wrong, I think the situation is/was awful and the man should have been Ubered home.  Maybe have his car impounded.  One thing led to another, with tragic consequences for all.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

Pepper said:


> Which is why a gun should not have been used.  His crime was a panic attack.



It never should have gotten to that stage in the first place, I think we can both agree on that.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

Pepper, you are a peace-loving New Yorker and probably the opposite of me.  But your posts show both compassion and common sense.


----------



## Em in Ohio (Jun 16, 2020)

Sunny said:


> OK, I googled, and found the following:
> 
> https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
> 
> It says in 2019, blacks were 24% of the number of people killed by police, despite being 13% of the population.


From your link: 

99%
of killings by police from 2013-2019 have not resulted in officers being charged with a crime.

There is no accountability

(The graphic below is from Sunny's link)


This is something that I saved previously:  *Qualified Immunity*

"On May 25, Minneapolis police killed George Floyd. While two officers pinned the handcuffed Floyd on a city street, another fended off would-be intervenors as a fourth knelt on Floyd’s neck until — and well after — he lost consciousness.

But when Floyd’s family goes to court to hold the officers liable for their actions, a judge in Minnesota may very well dismiss their claims. Not because the officers didn’t do anything wrong, but because there isn’t a case from the 8th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court specifically holding that it is unconstitutional for police to kneel on the neck of a handcuffed man for nearly nine minutes until he loses consciousness and then dies.

And such a specific case is what Floyd’s family must provide to overcome a legal doctrine called “qualified immunity” that shields police and all other government officials from accountability for their illegal and unconstitutional acts.

The Supreme Court created qualified immunity in 1982. With that novel invention, the court granted all government officials immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that the rights were “clearly established.”

A virtually unlimited protection
Although innocuous sounding, the clearly established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court, or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the official is immune. Whether the official’s actions are unconstitutional, intentional or malicious is irrelevant to the test."


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## Pepper (Jun 16, 2020)

JimBob1952 said:


> Pepper, you are a peace-loving New Yorker and probably the opposite of me.  But your posts show both compassion and common sense.


Why, sir, you're making me blush!


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## Lewkat (Jun 16, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I question the police actions before he bolted. They determined that suspect was impaired, probably due to alcohol detoxification. His well being became their responsibility at that moment. While  his cooperation may have aided the police, the suspect should have been cuffed, and under control. Neither happened, and he bolted.
> As far as racism is concerned, in the heat of the moment, if a white suspect acted in the same way, would that be a factor. Who knows?


It began as he was being cuffed.


----------



## Lewkat (Jun 16, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Yet their aim is good enough for an instance kill?


It isn't a matter of aiming so much as the bullet's trajectory once it enters the body.  I doubt the cop was aiming as both were running, but as I said, after the missile hits you, many organs are torn apart.


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## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

This is wearing me out.  I think I'm going to take a photo of my "Cavapoo" puppy Maxine (almost six months) and post it on the appropriate thread.  Need to restore my "Wa."


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jun 16, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> It isn't a matter of aiming so much as the bullet's trajectory once it enters the body.  I doubt the cop was aiming as both were running, but as I said, after the missile hits you, many organs are torn apart.



Also worth noting that a shot in the leg can hit the femoral artery, resulting in bleed out and death.


----------



## 911 (Jun 16, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Can the officers not stop a threat without killing the person? Shoot them in the legs, butt, arm etc?


Maybe he (the cop) wanted to shoot him in the butt, however, he’s just a terrible shot.


----------



## 911 (Jun 16, 2020)

I received a radio call that a car was stopped at a light that had changed 3 times to green and the driver never moved, so one of the other drivers behind him went up to the car and pounded on the window, but couldn’t get a reaction from the driver. When I arrived on the scene, I also tried pounding on the window and didn’t get a reaction. I then tried the door, but it was locked.

I went back to my car and took my electronic megaphone out of the trunk and put it against the window and yelled at the top of my voice. Finally, he slowly moved around and then was able to unlock the door. When I got him out of the car, I had him taken to the hospital. A few hours later, I was able to interview him. He told me that he had worked 20 consecutive hours at the paper mill in the small town where we were. He said that he was drinking power drinks and highly caffeinated drinks. He said after he got in his car and started driving home, he just crashed. The doctors at the hospital told me that his bp was abnormally high, but his pulse was abnormally low and he could have died.

It just goes to show us how powerful these caffeinated drinks can be. The doctors believed that he also may have taken some pills, but I didn’t request a toxicology report. I never believed looking for trouble. He did spend the night in the hospital for observation.

In this case with the Atlanta driver, as a police officer, I wouldn’t like the idea of a drunk running around town with a loaded Taser. Those things have been known to kill people. When we first got ours, I volunteered to be Tasered. I only took 35,000 volts, but it’s an experience that you never forget.


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## Keesha (Jun 16, 2020)

JimBob1952 said:


> They are taught this:  If you shoot, shoot "center mass" (largest area of the body).   Least chance of missing and having the bullet go elsewhere.  Or of having a large, angry, drunken man grab your gun and using it on you.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I think the situation is/was awful and the man should have been Ubered home.  Maybe have his car impounded.  One thing led to another, with tragic consequences for all.


That was my husbands point of view that maybe the police officer panicked thinking now they had a drunk man with a dangerous weapon wandering around but I can’t help but think it could have been handled better. Then again I’m not a police officer. It seems like they both panicked and bad choices were made. Very sad! I feel for the dead man’s family and friends.


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## Keesha (Jun 16, 2020)

911 said:


> Maybe he (the cop) wanted to shoot him in the butt, however, he’s just a terrible shot.


Yeah maybe. That part we will never know.


----------



## Mahatma (Jun 17, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I guess you could compare it to a baseball major league pitcher who makes millions of dollars, trains a lot, yet manages to throw balls that walk players or create fouls that players hit.  You can not win them all.


i agree you can't win them all, but would your team hire a man who couldnt bat?..ok yes a pitcher..lol... but our on the street police are batters, the pitchers are on the other end of the radio...


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 17, 2020)

Mahatma said:


> i agree you can't win them all, but would your team hire a man who couldnt bat?..ok yes a pitcher..lol... but our on the street police are batters, the pitchers are on the other end of the radio...


Lots of highly trained batters miss as well.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 17, 2020)

JAY PHAROAH, COMEDIAN, PINNED BY POLICE - THE PROBLEM IS OBVIOUS:


__
		http://instagr.am/p/CBVo2bJn-wZ/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jay-pharoah-lapd/


----------



## Keesha (Jun 17, 2020)

Em in Ohio said:


> JAY PHAROAH, COMEDIAN, PINNED BY POLICE - THE PROBLEM IS OBVIOUS:
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Great message there Em in Ohio. That’s powerful.
ALL lives SHOULD matter!


----------



## Treacle (Jun 17, 2020)

I found a quote by Paul Coehlo who wrote the Alchemist which  I thought was interesting  'The world is changed by your example not by your opinion'. Just a thought !!! ☺


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jun 17, 2020)

win231 said:


> One of the aspects of police work is that it attracts people who crave power & control.  It also attracts racists who can exercise & express their hatred through brutality - and often get away with it under the guise of "Fighting Crime," & at the same time, be admired as a hero because many (ignorant) people view any cop as a hero.


You are exactly right Win!! I had a friend who left the force for those reasons. I also had three cousins who were officers and the father of two of them was a detective (three are deceased, one retired). I also know there are still good cops in this country (of all races) and I thank God for them.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 17, 2020)

911 said:


> Maybe he (the cop) wanted to shoot him in the butt, however, he’s just a terrible shot.


That seems to be the way of society today, always making up excuses to excuse cops in order to mitigate their actions or inactions.

Let me guess, you're a cop or used to be a cop?


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jun 17, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I have a different point of view of this thread.
> 
> I think this thread is political unless you include ALL innocent deaths committed by the police.  In other words, many Innocent people with WHITE skin have died at the hands of the police.  Where are you including those deaths?
> 
> ...


The purpose of this thread was to address those who think innocent Black people do not get targeted and killed by the police. It speaks to racism and racial profiling which sometimes results in deaths.  As has been the reply to many who rebuke Black Lives Matter with "All Lives Matter"....no one in the BLM movement is saying that White lives, Asian lives or any other lives don't matter. We are pointing out the constant racial profiling that happens to Black people in this country. White people are not the victims of racial profiling, certainly not by Whites or even by Blacks. Any intelligent person knows this.

I am posting about the cases I know and remember. You are welcome to post your own thread about Caucasians who have met the same fate OR you can choose to list them in this thread. I have not placed handcuffs on you....so stop complaining (yet again!) about what I've posted  and do your thing.  Wow...I can't believe I ever had empathy for your plight and was actually thinking of suggestions that may have helped you!


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jun 17, 2020)

JimBob1952 said:


> I'm sorry, but as soon as you fall asleep drunk in a Wendy's drive-through line, vigorously resist arrest, steal an officer's Taser and then shoot at him with it, you have crossed a line of some sort.  The cop who shot Mr. Brooks may have made a split-second error in judgment - and if so he should be punished -  but it's quite possible he thought his partner's life was in danger.  After all, if his partner was incapacitated, then a drunken, violent Rayshard Brooks could easily have taken his pistol as well.  This situation was very different from the one involving George Floyd.
> 
> All this hand-wringing about whose lives matter is absurd.  The "black community" doesn't exist. Blacks murder other black people at atrocious rates (over 90 percent of US murders are black on black).  They commit the majority of violent crimes, despite being only 12 percent of the population.  They have destroyed the structure of the family with 75 percent illegitimacy rates.
> 
> ...


I don't totally disagree with you about what happened in the Brooks case. But maybe it could have been handled differently. It's a shame, however, that you have bought into the racial stereotypes about Black people as most likely the same cops I wrote about do.  Most of us are hard working, church going people with family values. I know several well established, wealthy Black people, some in my family. And I know some who are not well off but are hard working...some with two jobs. In your ignorance, I guess you don't realize that many educational opportunities for Blacks had been blocked in various ways.

Let me speak on Black illegitimacy rates. From the time I was 10 years old until I was 22, I lived across the street from an unwed mother's home. Every day the girls would come out holding hands carrying the garbage cans. Only once did I see a Black girl. I say this to say that the White girls who were "sent off to boarding school", sent to "live with relatives", "went to Europe" and all those BS stories were in fact sent away to have their babies. I'm sure many were from wealthy families. And the ones who didn't get that luxury killed their babies. I remember being horrified at the girl who flushed her baby down the toilet after giving birth at prom.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in...-gives-birth-and-murders-her-baby-at-the-prom

You bring up Black people murdering each other. I guess you turn off the news when it comes to all the White people who kill each other....this includes family members killing each other. And it happens *often*..so don't be so sanctimonious! Caucasians have a dark history of killing their own for money, for love, for power, etc. as well as committing genocide on other races. In fact, what about the case of the mother who's children were missing since last year. She was off getting married and partying with her new husband in Hawaii (was it) like they didn't have a care in the world. Recently the children were found dead and buried in her new husband's back yard. What kind of cold, heartless so called humans do that?!! So don't act like only Black people are "killing each other". *Know your history! *


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jun 17, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Only one CONGRATULATION, Aneeda?  Isn't that word usually plural?  Come on, can't you muster up even a second CONGRATULATION?  Wow, talk about stingy.
> 
> Win, I think you deserve a second one.  So I'll give it to you.  (Trust Aneeda to not even get an attempt at sarcasm right!)
> 
> About the latest attempt by the far-righters here to deflect away from the truth, it would be interesting to see statistics on the number of black people shot by the police, especially when they are doing nothing wrong, and compare it to the number of white people similarly treated.  This whole thing has the stink of slavery days and Jim Crow laws. Anyone who can't see that has blinders on,


Ask and you shall receive Sunny. Someone here claimed that more Whites were killed by police than Blacks. This article (the second one I've read on the subject) disputes that. This was posted by one of my (White) friends on another forum where we are a close knit group. It's about the number of people imprisoned and killed by cops in the U.S. compared to other countries. The article states that "In the United States police officers are almost four times more likely to use force on black people than white people according to data on reported incidents from 2016"
It also says that in a 2016 Journal of Health study, Black men are nearly three times more likely to be killed by police than White man.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/us/u...cket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 17, 2020)

911 said:


> Maybe he (the cop) wanted to shoot him in the butt, however, he’s just a terrible shot.


"Terrible shot"? You mean incompetent?


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jun 17, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> The purpose of this thread was to address those who think innocent Black people do not get targeted and killed by the police. It speaks to racism and racial profiling.  As has been the reply to many who rebuke Black Lives Matter with "All Lives Matter"....no one in the BLM movement is staying that White lives, Asian lives or any other lives don't matter. We are pointing out the constant racial profiling that happens to Black people in this country. White people are not the victims of racial profiling, certainly not by Whites or even by Blacks. Any intelligent person knows this.
> 
> I am posting about the cases I know about and remember. You are welcome to post your own thread about Caucasians who have met the same fate OR you can choose to list them in this thread. I have not placed handcuffs on you....so stop complaining (yet again!) about what I've posted  and do your thing.  Wow...I can't believe I ever had empathy for your plight and was actually thinking of suggestions that may have helped you!


I haven’t complained.  I am doing my own thing.  I haven’t asked for any suggestions concerning my life or expected any empathy from anyone for “plight”.  My life is what it is, and I am honest about it rather than pretend how wonderful everything is, like many.

I made stupid unformed choices when I was younger.  Now that I am older my choices are more limited but I will probably continue to make stupid decisions.  Still, I am sure that a white person in a black community would be subjected to racial profiling and prejudice by that community.


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## rgp (Jun 17, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> "Terrible shot"? You mean incompetent?




 I read it to mean "Terrible shot" ...... period. But then I don't [as a rule] read things into things ..... I read it as written.


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## Aunt Marg (Jun 17, 2020)

rgp said:


> I read it to mean "Terrible shot" ...... period. But then I don't [as a rule] read things into things ..... I read it as written.


Feel free to make up all the excuses you want, I see it as incompetence.


----------



## peppermint (Jun 17, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> And the family saying he was on the way to take his daughter skating for her birthday, while he was drunk?


I wasn't going to say this, but I will....I understand what you just said.....I thought the same thing...The man was drunk...Why was he drunk in the
first place…  When he was standing up he looked like a nice guy, very nice dressed...Why wasn't he home with his family....What was he doing
at a food place in his car sleeping his shi2 so he didn't want his family to know, either he was with someone else and had a booze party...
He should/ve been home for his daughter....Just saying!!!   To me he did look like a nice guy...If he was not drunk, maybe this wouldn't have
happened....He didn't have to resist...You know those cops would've let him go or drive him home...So, you know we will never know...
I am very heartfelt for his family...those kids are so young and his lady was devastated...(Who knows what went on with the family)   
Why was he drunk?   Why was he sleeping in the car?....I just can see this guy was a "Nice Guy"....this shouldn't have happened...By him
and the Police....(No way, now a day's) I would not want my child/man orr woman) be a police man or woman....I cried for that Family....


----------



## rgp (Jun 17, 2020)

What do you want ? A question  just 'put-out-there' , for thought.

 Do you want neighborhoods / towns & cities as safe as possible ? Or would you rather line in anarchy ? We cannot have the first, without a strong police department that has our support. Sending a message that the criminal element will be coddled is not a strong police department. Sending a message of a heavy handed police department and tactics is.

I wonder sometimes, when I read here ..... just how many responders have a criminal background ? Or how many have criminals in their respective families ? There seems to be a strong element that are supportive of criminals. And carry a hatred of police. 

Well, speaking only for myself ..... I have no use for criminals, and I support the police strongly , I really care very little what methods the police use, to fight crime/criminals ..... and bring about the best level of safety for my community & my country.

I have never committed a crime in my life [soon 71 years] as such I fear not the police.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jun 17, 2020)

peppermint said:


> I wasn't going to say this, but I will....I understand what you just said.....I thought the same thing...The man was drunk...Why was he drunk in the
> first place…  When he was standing up he looked like a nice guy, very nice dressed...Why wasn't he home with his family....What was he doing
> at a food place in his car sleeping his shi2 so he didn't want his family to know, either he was with someone else and had a booze party...
> He should/ve been home for his daughter....Just saying!!!   To me he did look like a nice guy...If he was not drunk, maybe this wouldn't have
> ...


I am sorry for the family as well, but these men and/or woman, are presented by their families as wonderful human beings when clearly they are not.  I think it is due to the wrongful death lawsuit and the amount of money to be obtained.

My husband is a well liked guy by the people he works with, they think he’s great.  I do not think he’s great.  You never know a person until you have lived with them.  

So maybe these men are great to their families and horrible elsewhere.  Idk.  I do know when a member of Floyd’s family was asked about the shooting he said their case was different.  Whatever that means.


----------



## rgp (Jun 17, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Feel free to make up all the excuses you want, I see it as incompetence.




 I am not making up anything .... You tried to indicate that 911 said something he did not say .... I merely stated that I read it only as it was written.

 If you see it as incompetence ? Fine that is your opinion . It does not however make it fact. And it also does not mean that the opinion of 'terrible shot' means incompetence , only what it says... terrible shot.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jun 17, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I don't totally disagree with you about what happened in the Brooks case. But maybe it could have been handled differently. It's a shame, however, that you have bought into the racial stereotypes about Black people as most likely the same cops I wrote about do.  Most of us are hard working, church going people with family values. I know several well established, wealthy Black people, some in my family. And I know some who are not well off but are hard working...some with two jobs. In your ignorance, I guess you don't realize that many educational opportunities for Blacks had been blocked in various ways.
> 
> Let me speak on Black illegitimacy rates. From the time I was 10 years old until I was 22, I lived across the street from an unwed mother's home. Every day the girls would come out holding hands carrying the garbage cans. Only once did I see a Black girl. I say this to say that the White girls who were "sent off to boarding school", sent to "live with relatives", "went to Europe" and all those BS stories were in fact sent away to have their babies. I'm sure many were from wealthy families. And the ones who didn't get that luxury killed their babies. I remember being horrified at the girl who flushed her baby down the toilet after giving birth at prom.
> https://www.history.com/this-day-in...-gives-birth-and-murders-her-baby-at-the-prom
> ...


White girls have as many children out of wedlock as black girls if not more.  We agree.  But what i said was, was that white children are adopted more whereas black children have a higher rate of not being adopted.

I still think the adoption of black children lags behind that of white children by their same race.  I also believe there are more absent fathers in the black community than white.  Although there are plenty in the white community.

Many people do not realize that foster children are aged out of the system at 18.  Which means, they lack any kind of support in these early adult years.  This contributes to these young adults, of both races/all races, engaging in criminal behavior to survive.

Therefore, it stands to reason that if you have more black children aged out of foster care, than white with no support, you have more black crime, more police interactions, and more arrests in the young adult black population.

A vicious cycle which is easily solved, by all racial groups, by adopting more children, providing support after the age of 18, or by the use of birth control.  I think birth control would be the best option for everyone.  But as you have said I’m not very intelligent, so I could be wrong.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 17, 2020)

Treacle said:


> I found a quote by Paul Coehlo who wrote the Alchemist which  I thought was interesting  'The world is changed by your example not by your opinion'. Just a thought !!! ☺


Is that the same as 'practice what you preach?'   If so, I agree!


----------



## Warrigal (Jun 17, 2020)

This thought came to me out of left field as I was catching up on my reading - every time the police approach a man (don't know about what happens to women) they are ordered to lie on the ground and are handcuffed. I watched this happen to Jay Pharoah who was a victim of mistaken identity. He also experienced the knee on the neck after being cuffed. Hardly necessary given his lack of resistance.

Why don't the police, especially when there are four of them present, simply ask for identification and keep the level of tension and anxiety low? All the shouting and barking orders are designed to intimidate and frightened people make bad decisions. Some panic. Me, I would wet myself.

It seems to me that the police are perpetually afraid of the people that they are being asked to deal with. They seem to be waging a war of pre-emptive strikes. I find that very sad today...


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## Butterfly (Jun 17, 2020)

911 said:


> This isn’t always the case. I am not a geneticist or even know a lot about the human anatomy, but for whatever reason, some people gain strength from drinking. Of course, if the drunk is completely sf, then it’s a different story. After all, alcohol is a depressant. I have seen men with half a load on that could probably lift the backend of a car. Others may not be able to lift a newspaper.
> 
> With this case, if the trial is held outside of Atlanta, the DA may have a tough road to hoe to prove any degree of murder. If the trial is held in Atlanta, I’m afraid the cop’s goose is cooked. I do believe the Mayor acted on emotion. She forgot that everyone is to be afforded due process, which includes an investigation and not just viewing a video. The Coroner declaring the death a homicide was also a rush to judgment. I think these people may have painted themselves into a corner.
> 
> If you carefully watch the video and use a stopwatch, you will find out that the time it took the perp to point the gun and the cop to react was just about a second. That’s not a lot of time to make a decision when your life ‘may’ be on the line. The other point is about the shot taken. When an officer is in pursuit and is shot at, his only objective is to then to stop the threat.



The "perp" didn't have a gun.  It was a taser.


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## Butterfly (Jun 17, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> And the family saying he was on the way to take his daughter skating for her birthday, while he was drunk?



Her birthday was the next day. The family said he was looking forward to it.


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## Butterfly (Jun 17, 2020)

peppermint said:


> I wasn't going to say this, but I will....I understand what you just said.....I thought the same thing...The man was drunk...Why was he drunk in the
> first place…  When he was standing up he looked like a nice guy, very nice dressed...Why wasn't he home with his family....What was he doing
> at a food place in his car sleeping his shi2 so he didn't want his family to know, either he was with someone else and had a booze party...
> He should/ve been home for his daughter....Just saying!!!   To me he did look like a nice guy...If he was not drunk, maybe this wouldn't have
> ...



I'll say this once again -- I say it a lot -- whether or not a person is a nice guy or a serial axe murderer is completely irrelevant.  Why he was drinking or whether he should have been home with his family and all that other stuff are completely irrelevant.

The only relevant facts are what he was doing (sleeping off a drunk in the Wendy's drive thru), what he did (cooperated at first, then resisted when they tried to handcuff him, grabbed one of the officers' taser and attempted to escape, pointed the taser at the cops from a distance), what the officers did (shot him in the back twice as he ran away, a third shot went astray and struck another car; media reported today that another video shows that the officer who fired also kicked him while he lay dying).

The only things that matter are the things that happened in that snippet of time between when the cops approached the car and when he died.  The character of the dead man is absolutely irrelevant.


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## Warrigal (Jun 17, 2020)

Aye, Butterfly. "A Man's a Man for A' That" - Robert Burns 1795.

Every man (and woman) deserves some respect and no-one deserves to be kicked while lying dying on the ground.


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## Sassycakes (Jun 17, 2020)

*I just wonder how the people that think the Police did the right thing would feel the same way if it happened to someone in their family. Black, White makes no difference. What happened to this man was wrong.*


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## Warrigal (Jun 17, 2020)

This arrest did not end in death thanks to the pleadings of a grieving woman prepared to use her phone and voice to protect a stranger. This is a link to some important video relevant to this topic.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1137859720776171523
More information in the Huffington Post

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/e...xMJClPbduWHojq6NCSSKeG8FY53f-TXILTPSr6CmeBr81


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## Sunny (Jun 18, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I have a different point of view of this thread.
> 
> I think this thread is political unless you include ALL innocent deaths committed by the police.  In other words, many Innocent people with WHITE skin have died at the hands of the police.  Where are you including those deaths?
> 
> ...



Aneeda, you can't dismiss every opinion that disagrees with yours by calling it "political."  This is very far from a political discussion!

About the deaths of white people killed by police vs. the number of black people, this is a typical example of the misuse of statistics.

Let's say there is a small town with a population of 105.  Of those people, 100 are white, 5 are black.  The police shoot and kill 11 innocent people.  Of those who were shot,  6 were white; 5 were black.  Would you say that proves that more innocent white people are killed by police? Would you rather be an innocent white person living in that town, or an innocent black person?

The important thing is not the absolute numbers; it is the numbers relative to the population figures.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 18, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I haven’t complained.  I am doing my own thing.  I haven’t asked for any suggestions concerning my life or expected any empathy from anyone for “plight”.  My life is what it is, and I am honest about it rather than pretend how wonderful everything is, like many.
> 
> I made stupid unformed choices when I was younger.  Now that I am older my choices are more limited but I will probably continue to make stupid decisions.  *Still, I am sure that a white person in a black community would be subjected to racial profiling and prejudice by that community.*


Perhaps you're right about that Aneeda (bold print).  It's a shame for *anyone* to be profiled due to their race. BTW...my post is social not political. There was no political party nor any politicians names mentioned. I didn't even bring up a law that was passed due to one of the cases (Breonna's Law). I didn't say you asked for anything nor expected but in at least one of your posts it seemed like you had a difficult issue that was causing you deep concern.


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## Keesha (Jun 18, 2020)

rgp said:


> What do you want ? A question  just 'put-out-there' , for thought.
> 
> Do you want neighborhoods / towns & cities as safe as possible ? Or would you rather line in anarchy ? We cannot have the first, without a strong police department that has our support. Sending a message that the criminal element will be coddled is not a strong police department. Sending a message of a heavy handed police department and tactics is.
> 
> ...


Have never been in trouble with the police but you keep shining your halo there. Btw.... I have no problems with police officers who do their job. Just the ones who take the law into their own hands and murder people.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 18, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Perhaps you're right about that Aneeda (bold print).  It's a shame for *anyone* to be profiled due to their race. BTW...my post is social not political. There was no political party nor any politicians names mentioned. I didn't even bring up a law that was passed due to one of the cases (Breonna's Law). I didn't say you asked for anything nor expected but in at least one of your posts it seemed like you had a difficult issue that was causing you deep concern.


Yes, but my issues are not part of this thread.


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## Keesha (Jun 18, 2020)

So don’t include them.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 18, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Yes, but my issues are not part of this thread.


"Funny" you should say that since *you* brought up other issues that were not the subject of this thread!


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 18, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Aneeda, you can't dismiss every opinion that disagrees with yours by calling it "political."  This is very far from a political discussion!
> 
> About the deaths of white people killed by police vs. the number of black people, this is a typical example of the misuse of statistics.
> 
> ...


EXACTLY Sunny!


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## JaniceM (Jun 18, 2020)

Horrible things have been happening, but there's an additional point I think should be considered:  the biases of news/information sources, especially since many people have one or two go-to sources and don't get the full picture.  

Most recent example:  a family member sent me the link to an article on a news site said to be one of the top news sites for Blacks.  Part of the article stated all cops are bad, or at least those who aren't back up those who are.  
It reminded me of a spot on a t.v. network 'for African-Americans' where a young woman remarked every time she sent her kid to school she 'worried about what might happen to him if he encountered a police officer.'  The kid she was referring to was around 5 years old!  
With these types of 'information,' is it surprising hate and fear of police seems to be increasing?  
Yet, regardless of the topic, I've seen on other forums individuals who refuse to read anything that isn't already 100% compatible with their own viewpoints.  Some remark they won't read articles on a site because the site is either 'conservative' or 'liberal'- whichever they aren't.  
It's one thing to read facts about incidents, it's altogether different to base one's conclusions on what any one individual has said.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 18, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> Horrible things have been happening, but there's an additional point I think should be considered:  the biases of news/information sources, especially since many people have one or two go-to sources and don't get the full picture.
> 
> Most recent example:  a family member sent me the link to an article on a news site said to be one of the top news sites for Blacks.  Part of the article stated all cops are bad, or at least those who aren't back up those who are.
> It reminded me of a spot on a t.v. network 'for African-Americans' where a young woman remarked every time she sent her kid to school she 'worried about what might happen to him if he encountered a police officer.'  The kid she was referring to was around 5 years old!
> ...


Janice I agree with you but I will say I know what that 5 year old's mother is feeling. I felt it for my son when he was just 3 after I read about those minor children I mentioned in the OP and I have worried about him ever since. Ofttimes we are not just reacting to news stories but things that have happened within our own communities that don't make national news.  I have four male grandchildren, three of whom were very tall for their ages and a host of male step-children and step grandchildren. I'm going to post a story about what my son encountered as a Black male that blessedly didn't lead to any altercation but the profiling was *so* blatant.  It will be posted as an answer to the Is This Country Racist (sic) thread.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 18, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> "Funny" you should say that since *you* brought up other issues that were not the subject of this thread!


Well if you want to discuss it here, I’m willing, let me know.  Since you already objected to what I said I didn’t want to intrude further, but I am a chatty person.  So it’s fine with me.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 18, 2020)

My daughter was stopped by a county sheriff‘s deputy when she was on the way to school.  She was 14.  He stopped her because she was wearing a necklace with Jesus on the cross.  He told her to take it off, she refused.

He told her he would call her mother, tell her she was wearing the necklace, and get her in trouble. She replied go ahead.  You see, prejudice comes in all forms.  I lived in an LDS community,  my daughter was stopped for being Catholic.


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## rgp (Jun 18, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Have never been in trouble with the police but you keep shining your halo there. Btw.... I have no problems with police officers who do their job. Just the ones who take the law into their own hands and murder people.




 Again with the asinine comment.


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## win231 (Jun 18, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> Horrible things have been happening, but there's an additional point I think should be considered:  the biases of news/information sources, especially since many people have one or two go-to sources and don't get the full picture.
> 
> Most recent example:  a family member sent me the link to an article on a news site said to be one of the top news sites for Blacks.  Part of the article stated all cops are bad, or at least those who aren't back up those who are.
> It reminded me of a spot on a t.v. network 'for African-Americans' where a young woman remarked every time she sent her kid to school she 'worried about what might happen to him if he encountered a police officer.'  The kid she was referring to was around 5 years old!
> ...


The article was half right.
Not all cops are bad.
Those who aren't bad _*WILL *_back up those who are.  That's the main problem - and that's why police brutality keeps happening.  The "Brotherhood," the "Code of Silence" and the "Testilying" includes ALL cops - good and bad.
The cops who remain silent or lie are_ just as guilty._

I'm sure not all Catholic Priests are child molesters.  But the ones who aren't will typically support & conceal the ones who are; with the same result.


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## fmdog44 (Jun 18, 2020)

Blue flu is coming to your neighborhoods.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 19, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Blue flu is coming to your neighborhoods.


Only in certain states, not in mine.


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## fmdog44 (Jun 20, 2020)

So The New York Times has written cops should be abolished. Yes, that will work just fine.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 20, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well if you want to discuss it here, I’m willing, let me know.  Since you already objected to what I said I didn’t want to intrude further, but I am a chatty person.  So it’s fine with me.


I already mentioned that you could add to this post. What more do you want?! Or didn't you read that particular reply? In case you missed it: "I am posting about the cases I know and remember. You are welcome to post your own thread about Caucasians who have met the same fate OR you can choose to list them in this thread. I have not placed handcuffs on you....so stop complaining (yet again!) about what I've posted and do your thing." That "do you thing" was your cue to post what you wish about the subject matter you choose.

What that cop did to your daughter seems to be a case of religious, not racial profiling. He should have been fired too...or at the very least strongly reprimanded. People like that have no business being on the police force.


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## Sunny (Jun 20, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> My daughter was stopped by a county sheriff‘s deputy when she was on the way to school.  She was 14.  He stopped her because she was wearing a necklace with Jesus on the cross.  He told her to take it off, she refused.
> 
> He told her he would call her mother, tell her she was wearing the necklace, and get her in trouble. She replied go ahead.  You see, prejudice comes in all forms.  I lived in an LDS community,  my daughter was stopped for being Catholic.



Really, really irrelevant to this discussion, Aneeda.  Pointing out what some ignorant sheriff's deputy said about your daughter's religion, doing her no harm other than annoying her, is about as far-fetched to the police murdering innocent Blacks as you can get.  You might as well say some mean teacher made an insulting remark to your daughter about what she was wearing, and using that as an example of the persecution of Whites.

Why do so many people seem to be unable to face a horrific miscarriage of justice, and a persecution of a whole group of people because of their race, without endlessly slipping and sliding, trying to change the subject?


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## Sunny (Jun 20, 2020)

> I wonder sometimes, when I read here ..... just how many responders have a criminal background ? Or how many have criminals in their respective families ? There seems to be a strong element that are supportive of criminals. And carry a hatred of police.



There we go, rgp. Mud-slinging, making totally unfounded accusations, basically name-calling.  This is what some of those in power like to do when they have no other arguments to fall back on.  "You don't think that in a free society, the police should be running around killing people for absolutely no reason?  That proves that you and your relatives are a bunch of criminals!  There is no other reason for being against that."

Yup, you got us, rgp.  My grandfather was Vito Corleone, and my father was his chief consigilere. (Or however you spell it.)

*https://tinyurl.com/y8on6z98*


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 20, 2020)

win231 said:


> The article was half right.
> Not all cops are bad.
> Those who aren't bad _*WILL *_back up those who are.  That's the main problem - and that's why police brutality keeps happening.  The "Brotherhood," the "Code of Silence" and the "Testilying" includes ALL cops - good and bad.
> The cops who remain silent or lie are_ just as guilty._
> ...


You hit the nail right on the head Win in both examples. There's the Blue Code that causes the good cops to remain silent. Not only do they feel they'd lose their jobs if they spoke out...they don't want to be considered snitches and have the other cops shun them.  I'm sure we've all heard the extent to which the Catholic church has gone to in order to protect pedophile priests. Police officers and priests....two of the groups we should be able to trust most besides our parents.


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 20, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I already mentioned that you could add to this post. What more do you want?! Or didn't you read that particular reply? In case you missed it: "I am posting about the cases I know and remember. You are welcome to post your own thread about Caucasians who have met the same fate OR you can choose to list them in this thread. I have not placed handcuffs on you....so stop complaining (yet again!) about what I've posted and do your thing." That "do you thing" was your cue to post what you wish about the subject matter you choose.
> 
> What that cop did to your daughter seems to be a case of religious, not racial profiling. He should have been fired too...or at the very least strongly reprimanded. People like that have no business being on the police force.


In my daughters case, the officer thought she was LDS and wearing the cross was a rebellious act against the LDS faith.  Thus, he was going to tell her mother.  . She was, and is, catholic.  I, of course, bought her the necklace.

In the group homes here, residents are taken to the LDS church, and LDS home teachers come to the group homes.  Residents of other faiths are not taken to their church or welcomed into the group homes.  

LDS teaching facilities are next to all the high schools and most junior highs, side by side, in fact, and the faithful are allowed time off during school hours to attend.

Yes, religious not racial.  The separate but equal policy still alive and well.  Reminds me of black vs white prejudicial situations, as prejudice is prejudice.  Certain employers will not hire people of non LDS faith, especially church owned business.

It has gotten better over the years.  In the early years, the church had access to state tax records and would come to your home, every month, to collect their 10 percent, based on those records.  People with black skin were not allowed to join the LDS church until 1980 or so.  Can’t remember exactly when they were accepted in.  Course once in, you can not get out.   

Yet, no protests, no riots, no civil disobedience.  Non LDS people just got/get on with their lives.

As for the black community, I know of no other group in which protests, riots, and civil disobedience occur in such great numbers in order to obtain empty promises and lip service from people who just want the issue, and the people, to go away.  You can not regulate people’s feelings.

I could be wrong.  I believe there will be reprisals in the future and race relations will worsen considerably.  The black community, over time, will find they have lost a great deal, IMO.  Time will tell.  But is incredibly sad, no matter what the result.


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## JaniceM (Jun 21, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> You hit the nail right on the head Win in both examples. There's the Blue Code that causes the good cops to remain silent. Not only do they feel they'd lose their jobs if they spoke out...they don't want to be considered snitches and have the other cops shun them.  I'm sure we've all heard the extent to which the Catholic church has gone to in order to protect pedophile priests. Police officers and priests....two of the groups we should be able to trust most besides our parents.


Locally, they're taught and instructed to speak up when they see or know another officer has done wrong.


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## RadishRose (Jun 21, 2020)

deleted


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 21, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> Locally, they're taught and instructed to speak up when they see or know another officer has done wrong.


I believe in the blue code.  Officers must be sure their backs or covered and needing this support leads to abuses of power by the “bad” officers.  So while they might me taught to speak up, I doubt they would.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 23, 2020)

Here's another one my friend sent me that I wasn't aware of.
*Cpl. Roman Ducksworth Jr.*, a military police officer stationed in Maryland, was on leave to visit his sick wife when he was ordered off a bus by a police officer and shot dead. The police officer may have mistaken Ducksworth for a “freedom rider” who was testing bus desegregation laws.


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## StarSong (Jun 23, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I believe in the blue code.  Officers must be sure their backs or covered and needing this support leads to abuses of power by the “bad” officers.  So while they might me taught to speak up, I doubt they would.


You believe the "blue code" is a good thing?


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## Aneeda72 (Jun 23, 2020)

StarSong said:


> You believe the "blue code" is a good thing?


I believe the blue code is a real thing.


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## Pinky (Jun 23, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Here's another one my friend sent me that I wasn't aware of.
> *Cpl. Roman Ducksworth Jr.*, a military police officer stationed in Maryland, was on leave to visit his sick wife when he was ordered off a bus by a police officer and shot dead. The police officer may have mistaken Ducksworth for a “freedom rider” who was testing bus desegregation laws.
> View attachment 110751


Even so, to be shot dead for being a "freedom rider" is going beyond the pale.


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## JaniceM (Jun 23, 2020)

Pinky said:


> Even so, to be shot dead for being a "freedom rider" is going beyond the pale.


Unfortunately it happened a lot.


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## Pepper (Jun 23, 2020)

Pinky said:


> Even so, to be shot dead for being a "freedom rider" is going beyond the pale.


*"Murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner - Wikipedia*
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Murders_of_Chaney,_Goodman,_and_Sch...

The murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner, also known as the Freedom Summer ... The _civil rights workers_' burnt-out car was found near a swamp _three_ days after their disappearance. ... to any outsider about it, then the rest of us are going to kill him just as _dead_ as we _killed_ those _three_sonofbitches [sic] tonight.
*Perpetrators*‎: ‎Cecil Price‎ (‎convicted‎); ‎Samuel ...
*Date*‎: ‎June 21, 1964; 55 years ago
*Location*‎: ‎Neshoba County, Mississippi
*Victims*‎: ‎James Chaney‎; ‎Andrew Goodman‎; ‎Mi...
‎James Chaney · ‎Edgar Ray Killen · ‎Michael Schwerner · ‎Andrew Goodman"

When one hates the idea of black people being equal to whites So Much, murder is always an option.


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## JaniceM (Jun 23, 2020)

Pepper said:


> *"Murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner - Wikipedia*
> en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Murders_of_Chaney,_Goodman,_and_Sch...
> 
> The murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner, also known as the Freedom Summer ... The _civil rights workers_' burnt-out car was found near a swamp _three_ days after their disappearance. ... to any outsider about it, then the rest of us are going to kill him just as _dead_ as we _killed_ those _three_sonofbitches [sic] tonight.
> ...


After watching _Mississippi Burning, _I bought this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Not_Afraid     Haven't had time to read it yet.  

And don't forget this lady:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_Liuzzo  A housewife and mother of 5 children.  

And they're only some of the most well-known victims-  racial hatred can go far enough and deep enough that 'they' don't care what a person's age, gender, race, or anything else was.


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## ohioboy (May 26, 2021)

Em in Ohio said:
			
		

> But when Floyd’s family goes to court to hold the officers liable for their actions, a judge in Minnesota may very well dismiss their claims. Not because the officers didn’t do anything wrong, but because there isn’t a case from the 8th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court specifically holding that it is unconstitutional for police to kneel on the neck of a handcuffed man for nearly nine minutes until he loses consciousness and then dies.



A QI defense does not have to be specific/exact in facts as you point out. The judicial doctrine of QI only applies to violations of "Clearly established laws".

Example: A policeman throws a wad of gum at you and puts your eye out. QI is not sustained becuase there is no case law/statutory law that states "A policeman can not throw a wad of gum at a person that puts their eye out".


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## rgp (May 26, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> It's with a heavy heart that I start this thread. In fact, I meant to start it a week ago but I had to take a break from all of the news concerning the George Floyd case and similar events. I have seen comments by Forum members who seem to feel that if Mr. Floyd wasn't committing a crime, he wouldn't have been killed by police. @rgp even had the nerve to reply that I was making up the fact that several innocent people (of color) have died at the hands of police. As the saying goes "you can't make this s**t up"! I wouldn't want to make up something so heartbreaking anyway. There are many who's tragic stories stand out and I can't post them all in the OP but will keep adding them to this thread.
> 
> First let me start with two cases that broke my heart when my son was just 3 years old. I don't know their names because it was 49 years ago. The major news channels didn't feel these stories were newsworthy back then. Jet magazine a publication by Black print media mogul Johnson Publications carried the stories.
> ~An *8 year old boy *and his father were out for a stroll one evening. A cop shot the little boy claiming he "looked like the perp".  WTF??!! The cop was never charged.
> ...



 Show me where I said any such thing.


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## Della (May 27, 2021)

There is one group that is more likely to be killed by police than any other and that's the mentally ill.  They are 16 times more likely to be killed by police than non-mentally ill.  Do I think police are biased against the mentally Ill?  No.  I think that the illness can cause erratic behavior that frightens people and police alike and far too often the ill person ends up dead or in jail, when all he really needed was a hospital.

Police go where the dispatcher tells them to go. If they arrive and the person they encounter is more likely to be black, or more likely to be mentally ill, then of course that raises the chances that those people will be killed and the statistics will show they are killing a higher percentage of those groups. 

Take away population percentages and you'll find that police killed twice as many white people as people of color last year.  I recognized the names of everyone in the opening post, yet I couldn't name a single one of those white people.


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## fmdog44 (May 27, 2021)

Violent crime is on the rise everywhere in America. Why? Police are resigning in record numbers. Police budgets being cut. Laws being passed to restrict police from investigation like Stop and Frisk. The idea of sending social workers to family disputes instead of police is hideous. Why not send female kindergarten teachers? As long as we are the drug infested murder capital of the world we will need very professional, tough police


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## ohioboy (May 27, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Violent crime is on the rise everywhere in America. Why? Police are resigning in record numbers. Police budgets being cut. Laws being passed to restrict police from investigation like Stop and Frisk.



Any examples of specific laws? A Terry stop does not necessarily mean a frisk.


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## Remy (May 28, 2021)

@Della I think it was 2013 when the boyfriend of a co-worker's daughter was killed in police custody (I think he died a bit later) when the hospital put him in a non emergency van to go to a psychiatric facility and he wouldn't get out of the van on arrival, was acting erratically and the police were called. He resisted, I believe was combative.

However from everything I heard he was a good person and did well when on his medications but had stopped taking them. This is not unusual for people with mental health issues. They stop taking the medications and at first feel better because these are heavy duty medications, but then they decompensate.

There was a lawsuit by the parents. What got to me was that the hospital apparently put him in that van with a driver only (this is my understanding) without having a support person with the patient. It was clearly needed. It only made local news.


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## oldman (May 29, 2021)

I read every post and just like in a debate when I was in college, I scored it 5-5 for both sides. Both sides had good points, but also some posts on both sides came across to me as being incoherent. Mainly because I don't know much about laws. I will say that all the posts made good reading. Congratulation(s) to everyone who posted.


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