# Another Piece Of The American Dream Gone.



## Davey Jones (Jul 26, 2015)

Boy Scouts executive committee endorses ending ban on gay leaders.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...committee-endorses-ending-ban-on-gay-leaders/


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## Shalimar (Jul 26, 2015)

Since when is homophobia a part of the American Dream?


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## Josiah (Jul 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Since when is homophobia a part of the American Dream?



Regrettably the American dream is largely restricted to straight white Americans and recently further restricted to people who are already half way up the ladder to success. The BSA are finally getting around to doing the right thing and it's about time.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 26, 2015)

I have never understood the exclusion of gay leaders.  Good for BSA for _finally_ "getting it".


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## jujube (Jul 26, 2015)

Good.  It was a long time coming.


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## BobF (Jul 26, 2015)

It all depends on how those folks act.    I have lived with gays in my life for years.   Many just act like the rest of us and no big deal being around them.   

But there are some, like that nutty mob around the San Francisco area, that have no justification for acting so nutty and irresponsible as they do.   If they want to be so out of character for the community, then SF is the place to be.   When they work they need to honor the employers rules about dress and manners.   Those rules are for all of us,  no exceptions.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 26, 2015)

shalimar said:


> since when is homophobia a part of the american dream?



boys scouts...boys scouts


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## SifuPhil (Jul 26, 2015)

BobF said:


> It all depends on how those folks act.    I have lived with gays in my life for years.   Many just act like the rest of us and no big deal being around them.
> 
> But there are some, like that nutty mob around the San Francisco area, that have no justification for acting so nutty and irresponsible as they do.   If they want to be so out of character for the community, then SF is the place to be.   When they work they need to honor the employers rules about dress and manners.   Those rules are for all of us,  no exceptions.



I wonder if they'll let any of the Diaper Pail Kids serve as BSA leaders?


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## QuickSilver (Jul 26, 2015)

Josiah said:


> Regrettably the American dream is largely restricted to straight white Americans and recently further restricted to people who are already half way up the ladder to success. The BSA are finally getting around to doing the right thing and it's about time.




Yes...  the people who were born on third base and are convinced they hit a triple.


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## Underock1 (Jul 26, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yes...  the people who were born on third base and are convinced they hit a triple.




:thumbsup:


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## Ameriscot (Jul 26, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> boys scouts...boys scouts



Hmmm....is this you insinuating that all gays are child molesters or want to 'recruit' the boys.


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## Shalimar (Jul 26, 2015)

Pedophiles can be gay, straight, or bisexual. It is a compulsion to have sex with children. Gays are no more likely to be ****** deviants than anyone else.


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## QuickSilver (Jul 26, 2015)

this is true..  Adult gay males would be as horrified of the idea of sex with a little boy as adult straight males would be with idea of having sex with a little girl.  Unless of course, both were pedophiles..


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## Laurie (Jul 26, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> this is true..  Adult gay males would be as horrified of the idea of sex with a little boy as adult straight males would be with idea of having sex with a little girl.  Unless of course, both were pedophiles..



Exactly so.  Far too many straights think that homosexuality means the same as paedophilia.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 26, 2015)

Laurie said:


> Exactly so.  Far too many straights think that homosexuality means the same as paedophilia.




Yes, they do.  And changing their narrow minds is impossible.


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## Mrs. Robinson (Jul 26, 2015)

Oh boy,this one again. A few years back,when this was all over the news,a woman on my old forum (who also happened to be a scout leader,along with her husband) posted about how in favor she was about the BSA banning gays. I spoke up first,and then the barrage began. The woman (a long time member) ended up being Banned because she got so ugly. I think (hope) that most people know that being gay does not mean one is a peodophile,anymore than having brown hair does.....By the way,I go to San Francisco all the time,my niece lives there and is raising her kids there,and neither of us has any stories about gays being the least bit of a problem for us there....


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## AZ Jim (Jul 26, 2015)

Gay=Pedophile just as: Strawberry=Onion  They are two distinct and different things.


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## Shalimar (Jul 26, 2015)

I also fail to get the inference from one poster that somehow gays +weird clothes equals problems  equals unfit to be scout leaders??? I am straight, and wear eccentric clothes, does that make me unfit to lead Girl Guides ? (Canadianyr version of Girl Scouts)? ?


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## BobF (Jul 26, 2015)

Mrs. Robinson said:


> Oh boy,this one again. A few years back,when this was all over the news,a woman on my old forum (who also happened to be a scout leader,along with her husband) posted about how in favor she was about the BSA banning gays. I spoke up first,and then the barrage began. The woman (a long time member) ended up being Banned because she got so ugly. I think (hope) that most people know that being gay does not mean one is a peodophile,anymore than having brown hair does.....By the way,I go to San Francisco all the time,my niece lives there and is raising her kids there,and neither of us has any stories about gays being the least bit of a problem for us there....



My wife and her sister both lived in San Francisco.   I had live in San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Jose, and met my wife in San Francisco.   No problems from the gay crowd.   We were more concerned with the unlawful bunch of non workers, hippies or some such name.    Anyway, my observation now is the TV stories showing all the gays parading about in their ideas of parades in San Francisco.   Certainly glad they are not that way where I have lived since leaving the Bay Area, Florida, Colorado, Arizona, for better housing and wages that met my needs.   Should have stayed a few more years as my $14,750 house in San Jose rose up to about $400,000.   I don't know how anyone can afford to move there anymore.

Nice climate there but lousy living.   We still have family and friends living in various locations in the Bay Area and north of Golden Gate area.    I just don't understand how some folks can move there when so many areas of the US sell nice homes in the $300,000 or less.   Four years ago I bought 7 year old 4 br 2 ba home for just $105,000 south of Phoenix.


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## Mrs. Robinson (Jul 26, 2015)

BobF said:


> My wife and her sister both lived in San Francisco.   I had live in San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Jose, and met my wife in San Francisco.   No problems from the gay crowd.   We were more concerned with the unlawful bunch of non workers, hippies or some such name.    Anyway, my observation now is the TV stories showing all the gays parading about in their ideas of parades in San Francisco.   Certainly glad they are not that way where I have lived since leaving the Bay Area, Florida, Colorado, Arizona, for better housing and wages that met my needs.   Should have stayed a few more years as my $14,750 house in San Jose rose up to about $400,000.   I don't know how anyone can afford to move there anymore.
> 
> Nice climate there but lousy living.   We still have family and friends living in various locations in the Bay Area and north of Golden Gate area.    I just don't understand how some folks can move there when so many areas of the US sell nice homes in the $300,000 or less.   Four years ago I bought 7 year old 4 br 2 ba home for just $105,000 south of Phoenix.



People can afford to live there because they earn ridiculous salaries. I know a girl who is a realtor there and has no work because there is no inventory. No one wants to sell because there is nowhere to move. We moved out 23 years ago but luckily kept real estate there so someday......no,we won`t move back-ever. But we`ll live happily ever after on the money...


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## imp (Jul 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Pedophiles can be gay, straight, or bisexual. It is a compulsion to have sex with children. Gays are no more likely to be ******* deviants *than anyone else.



If you would please, define this term for me, that I may further understand this issue.    imp


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## imp (Jul 26, 2015)

BobF said:


> .......   Four years ago I bought 7 year old 4 br 2 ba home for just $105,000 *south of Phoenix*.



Do you mind? How far south of PHX? In the County? We built our house just east of 51st. Ave. 3 miles south of Baseline Rd. 1988.    imp


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## mitchezz (Jul 26, 2015)

I'm confused....is the gist of this thread that gay hippies who want to be Boy Scout Leaders are responsible for the high cost of housing in San Francisco?


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## Laurie (Jul 27, 2015)

"neither of us has any stories about gays being the least bit of a problem for us there...."

You can't say things like that!

Think of all the lovingly held preconceptions you are destroying!


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## Ralphy1 (Jul 27, 2015)

Are the Boy Scouts still relevant?  I know that this is off of topic but I don't know any young boys who join this organization anymore...


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## Shalimar (Jul 27, 2015)

Imp, a ****** deviant is a person whose ****** behaviour is beyond what is generally considered to be acceptable. In this case, I was referring to paedophilia.


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## hollydolly (Jul 27, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Are the Boy Scouts still relevant?  I know that this is off of topic but I don't know any young boys who join this organization anymore...



According to wicki..just in America alone...

The *Boy Scouts of America* (*BSA*) is one of the largest youth organizations in the United States, with 2.7 million youth members and over 1 million adult volunteers.[SUP][2][/SUP] Since its founding in 1910 as part of the international Scout Movement, more than 110 million Americans have been at one point or another members of the BSA.[SUP][3]


[/SUP]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America


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## Ralphy1 (Jul 27, 2015)

Interesting, but you would never know it here...


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## SifuPhil (Jul 27, 2015)

I'm just wondering if the values that were originally taught by Baden-Powell are still emphasized, or is it more like "Urban Bicycling" and "Fast Food Nutrition" ...


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## Ralphy1 (Jul 27, 2015)

I have no clue, don't know any...


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## SifuPhil (Jul 27, 2015)

Nor do I. I tried joining the Cub Scouts when I was a wee imp many moons ago. All I got for two months was sitting at a church schoolroom desk trying to assemble a balsa-wood racing car by myself.

Then when my son joined I volunteered to be a leader, but soon found there to be way too much politics and in-fighting.


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## Warrigal (Jul 27, 2015)

Scouting is still an outward bound movement over here but it's now mostly co-ed.


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## SifuPhil (Jul 27, 2015)

Dame, I would hope that self-defense against the many deadly critters you folks have would be _de rigueur_ ...


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## Warrigal (Jul 27, 2015)

Every scout is warned about drop bears.


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## Shalimar (Jul 27, 2015)

Soooo cute! Some serious fangs, vampire koala alert!!! Lol.


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## Ralphy1 (Jul 27, 2015)

Can't you people be serious for once?  I still ere my Cub Scout cap once in awhile...


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## Shalimar (Jul 27, 2015)

Ralphy, I always knew you were a boy at heart! :love_heart:


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## SifuPhil (Jul 27, 2015)

As long as you don't try to wear the shorts, Ralphy ...


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## Underock1 (Jul 27, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> According to wicki..just in America alone...
> 
> The *Boy Scouts of America* (*BSA*) is one of the largest youth organizations in the United States, with 2.7 million youth members and over 1 million adult volunteers.[SUP][2][/SUP] Since its founding in 1910 as part of the international Scout Movement, more than 110 million Americans have been at one point or another members of the BSA.[SUP][3]
> 
> ...



That may be, but does that make them relevant? I'm sure they must have many updated programs available. Understanding how your cell phone works is a lot more useful than the rubbing two sticks together thing.


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## oldman (Jul 27, 2015)

If I remember some of my B.S. motto and principles, the BSA involved their principles with God and church. In the leader's eyes, having homosexuals as scout leaders may have conflicted with those principles, thus, the reason for excluding homosexuals. Just thinking out loud.


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## Butterfly (Jul 27, 2015)

oldman said:


> If I remember some of my B.S. motto and principles, the BSA involved their principles with God and church. In the leader's eyes, having homosexuals as scout leaders may have conflicted with those principles, thus, the reason for excluding homosexuals. Just thinking out loud.



 Did those principles cause them to exclude other sinners, as well, i.e., adulterers, liars, coveters, etc.?  Probably not.


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## oldman (Jul 27, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> Did those principles cause them to exclude other sinners, as well, i.e., adulterers, liars, coveters, etc.?  Probably not.



Never said that homosexuality is a sin. And, no one would ever have known if any of our scout leaders were homosexuals. They don't wear t-shirts showing any affiliation. As for 'other' sinners, I don't know. At the age of 13-16, I never cared about such things, but if someone called you a queer or whatever, like John Wayne or whoever it was used to say, "Them's fightin' words." Today, it's just a phrase that nobody really pays much attention to. I think we may be going back to the day when if something is out of sorts, we can say, "That's queer," with impunity.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 27, 2015)

First of all I don't see why the BSA is concerned with religion, God and related.  How about just teaching these boy about being good citizens and teach them some basic skills.  They have no need for the religious affiliation, they can get that at home in their personal lives or their church.  Many I am sure are not into the religion phenomenon.


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## SifuPhil (Jul 27, 2015)

I think it was Baden-Powell that set up the original religious factors, Jim. I could be wrong on that, just what I seem to remember ... he (along with most of the civilized world at the time) thought that without religion you would never be a complete person.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 27, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I think it was Baden-Powell that set up the original religious factors, Jim. I could be wrong on that, just what I seem to remember ... he (along with most of the civilized world at the time) thought that without religion you would never be a complete person.



Well we know how that thought turned out...


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## SifuPhil (Jul 27, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Well we know how that thought turned out...



Yeah, talk about relevancy in the modern world. They WOULD be better off learning about computers and phones and robots.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 27, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Yeah, talk about relevancy in the modern world. They WOULD be better off learning about computers and phones and robots.



Amen Brother, go in peace...


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## SifuPhil (Jul 27, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Amen Brother, go in peace...



May the many-fold spawn of Buddha smile down upon your soul. :turnaround:


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## AZ Jim (Jul 27, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> May the many-fold spawn of Buddha smile down upon your soul. :turnaround:



I feel so warm....it's good to be loved.


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## SifuPhil (Jul 27, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> I feel so warm....it's good to be loved.



Obviously you've never hung out with the spawn of Buddha!


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## LindaE (Jul 28, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> boys scouts...boys scouts



So you're saying that because a scout leader happens to be gay, he's eyeballing the young boys inappropriately? 

See, that's the whole problem with this way of thinking. And for those who think this way, who *REALLY* has the dirty mind here??? It just kind of angers me that so many people, when thinking of homosexuals, automatically think about the ****** part of their being. They automatically think about something dirty. But being gay is about more than just sex. They're human beings who have the ability to fall in love with each other, just like we [straight] people do. It's not just about sex. 

When a straight man says, "I just found a new girlfriend," people will say, "Cool, congrats, hope you guys fall in love and get married someday."

When a gay man says, "I just found a new boyfriend," the first thought many people have is _yeah, so that means you enjoy bumping someone up the behind._

We're the ones with the dirty minds, not them.

And hey, what about all the GIRL scout leaders that are lesbians? I'm sure they're out there.


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## SifuPhil (Jul 28, 2015)

You have to admit that that IS the one outstanding difference between homo- and heterosexuality, no? That there are different ways of expressing physical love? The mental / emotional love, of course, is the same. 

So how is it considered "dirty" to mention it? 

And yes, there probably ARE lesbian Girl Scout leaders.


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## LindaE (Jul 28, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> You have to admit that that IS the one outstanding difference between homo- and heterosexuality, no? That there are different ways of expressing physical love? The mental / emotional love, of course, is the same.



Yes, but the 'dirty' part is usually what people think of first, is my point.



SifuPhil said:


> So how is it considered "dirty" to mention it?



Well... because that's just the way some people think. Not everyone, of course, but you have to admit that humans have dirty minds, LOL



SifuPhil said:


> And yes, there probably ARE lesbian Girl Scout leaders.



But, naturally, they were never an issue. Which leads me to think that, when thinking of homosexuality, most people think of boy/boy, not girl/girl. Oh yeah, but then I have to remember that just about EVERY one of the men I've known in my entire 51 years of living have said they're turned on by watching two females. So I guess it's okay for two girls, just not two boys. Yeah, boys engaging in ****** behavior with each other, oh how horrid and awful!


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## Debby (Jul 28, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Since when is homophobia a part of the American Dream?




I thought this was the American dream:   American Dream, noun
                                                            - the ideal that EVERY US citizen should have an equal opportunity to achieve success and prosperity through hard work, determination and      initiative. 'he could achieve the American Dream only by hard work'. 







No mention of sex (of any sort) in there and my guess is that there are lots of LGBT people who work hard, have initiative and so on.[/COLOR]


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## SifuPhil (Jul 28, 2015)

LindaE said:


> Yes, but the 'dirty' part is usually what people think of first, is my point.



But could that be because there ARE no other differences? People tend to focus on differences, not similarities, no matter what. 




> Well... because that's just the way some people think. Not everyone, of course, but you have to admit that humans have dirty minds, LOL



Oh, I know, I KNOW! 



> But, naturally, they were never an issue. Which leads me to think that, when thinking of homosexuality, most people think of boy/boy, not girl/girl. Oh yeah, but then I have to remember that just about EVERY one of the men I've known in my entire 51 years of living have said they're turned on by watching two females. So I guess it's okay for two girls, just not two boys. Yeah, boys engaging in ****** behavior with each other, oh how horrid and awful!



That IS a strange dichotomy, I'll admit ... maybe it's because men are "supposed" to be strong and manly while women are "supposed" to be soft and feminine? 

It's very confusing - I'm going to make myself a cheeseburger and think about it.


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## LindaE (Jul 28, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> But could that be because there ARE no other differences? People tend to focus on differences, not similarities, no matter what.



Hmmm.... very good point.




SifuPhil said:


> Oh, I know, I KNOW!



I'm no exception 





SifuPhil said:


> That IS a strange dichotomy, I'll admit ... maybe it's because men are "supposed" to be strong and manly while women are "supposed" to be soft and feminine?
> 
> It's very confusing - I'm going to make myself a cheeseburger and think about it.



Perfect solution 

But yeah... I guess maybe it's because men are supposed to be manly. You know how it is, we females hug and kiss each other all the time and think nothing of it. But you wouldn't see two straight men giving each other a smooch when they meet for lunch, LOL


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