# Pennsylvania Poll Shows Overwhelming Support for Medical Marijuana



## SifuPhil (Mar 5, 2014)

Nice to see that the people here have at least _some_ common sense ...



> Pennsylvania voters overwhelmingly support legalizing marijuana for medical purposes, according to a poll released on Monday.
> 
> The Quinnipiac University poll of registered voters found that an overwhelming 85 percent of Pennsylvanians support the legalization of cannabis for medicinal uses, reports the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Just 14 percent were opposed. Even voters more than 65 years old support medical marijuana 84 to 14 percent, the poll found.
> 
> Voters were evenly divided on the legalization of marijuana for recreational uses. Although 48 percent of voters support recreational legalization, 49 percent oppose it, according to the poll ...Pennsylvania voters overwhelmingly support legalizing marijuana for medical purposes, according to a poll released on Monday.



*Read More*​


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## SifuPhil (Mar 5, 2014)

There was a post on here somewhere about that one lady that did precisely that, and they were calling Child Services and threatening to take the kid away - in Colorado, where it's legal.

The problem is mixing kids and weed - people right away think it'll bruise their brains and turn them into dope fiends. The fact that she was using marijuana _oil_, not having the kid smoke the buds, evidently didn't make any difference to these people.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 5, 2014)

Hatred and fear of marijuana have been ingrained in this country since the '30's - it's changing, slowly, but it's changing. I just dread seeing the government take it over as they have every other beneficial thing, but that's most likely the only way it will be legal everywhere.


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## That Guy (Mar 5, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Hatred and fear of marijuana have been ingrained in this country since the '30's - it's changing, slowly, but it's changing. I just dread seeing the government take it over as they have every other beneficial thing, but that's most likely the only way it will be legal everywhere.



Harry Anslinger was a horrible, horrible guy who we have to thank for the stupidity in marijuana laws.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 5, 2014)

Actually some recent studies are claiming that it _does_, at least certain forms and in certain stages. More work needs to be done, though - _much_ more.

And it might _not_ cure it (neither does chemo, all the time - not very often at all, in fact) but at least it doesn't give the same side-effects. We've grown comfortable with the idea that to battle cancer we have only two choices - chemo and radiation. I think there are many more possibilities. Right now we're at the stage where we're tossing chicken bones and drilling holes in heads - it _has_ to progress, and marijuana seems at least as likely a route as some other modalities.


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## i_am_Lois (Mar 5, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> What would those be? Surgery?



I was curious about that myself Phil. I checked on line. The Mayo Clinic lists 11 alternative cancer treatments.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/cancer/in-depth/cancer-treatment/art-20047246
Acupuncture
Aromatherapy
Biofeedback
Exercise
Hypnosis
Massage therapy
Meditation
Music therapy
Relaxation techniques
Tai chi
Yoga

I wouldn't consider anything on this list as a treatment to rid the body of cancer... more about ways to encourage a positive outlook when dealing with cancer. Or possibly help reduce those nasty chemo side effects.

I think the medical use of marijuana is the best alternative and should be number 1 on Mayo Clinic's list. Unfortunately it didn't rank anywhere.

I'm glad Pennsylvania is joining the many other states, suggesting changes in their laws, where the medical use of marijuana is concerned.

I think cancer frightens people so much they sometimes resort to bizarre treatments in their desperation. Take Steve McQueen (the late actor) for example.
In Wikipedia's Steve McQueen article they state:

By February 1980, there was evidence of widespread metastasis. While he tried to keep the condition a secret, the _National Enquirer_ disclosed that he had "terminal cancer" on March 11, 1980. In July, McQueen traveled to Rosarito Beach, Mexico for unconventional treatment after US doctors told him they could do nothing to prolong his life.[SUP][64][/SUP] Controversy arose over McQueen's Mexican trip, because McQueen sought a non-traditional cancer treatment called the Gerson Therapy that used coffee enemas, frequent washing with shampoos, daily injections of fluid containing live cells from cows and sheep, massage and laetrile, a supposedly "natural" anti-cancer drug available in Mexico, but not approved by the US Food and Drug Administration.  McQueen paid for these unconventional medical treatments by himself in  cash payments which was said to have cost an upwards of $40,000 per  month during his three-month stay in Mexico.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 5, 2014)

I'm all for medical (and recreational) marijuana.  It's legal where I live now, and guess what, there's not a bunch of crazed stoned out freaks running around out of control.  I personally have not seen any difference in my surroundings. 

 The good thing is folks that may have endangered themselves (and supported illegal drug cartels), can now purchase their cannabis in legal establishments...I can never see that as a bad thing. 

 A couple of things that seem to be useful for cancer sufferers and shrink tumors are Essiac Tea (only the original product), and Turmeric (Curcumin).  We have a friend who has been using Testosterone therapy from his doctor for around a year.  He gets shots and the gel.  Well, now he has liver cancer, and we convinced him to dump the testosterone junk...not worth it.  I also encouraged him to use Essiac, which he is.  Both changes have to help, even if they do not cure.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 5, 2014)

I think something like the cannabis oil would be best for pain.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 6, 2014)

This is the meat of the problem right now - 



> However, this particular  issue still bothers me: How can the government deny the benefits of  medical marijuana even as it holds a patent for those very same  benefits? Members of the Food and Drug Administration declined my  repeated requests for an interview.
> 
> This past year,  President Barack Obama told the New Yorker magazine, "I don't think  (marijuana) is more dangerous than alcohol." And yet, as alcohol remains  available to any adult, the president has not moved to remove marijuana  from the list of the most tightly controlled substances in the country.



You have a two-faced government, you have a leader of that government who sits on his thumbs and does nothing, and meanwhile people are needlessly suffering.

If I or one of my children had disease that could possibly be treated with cannabis, even though these doctors and associations are sitting around waiting for years of research I would move Heaven and Earth to get that weed and ingest it, right now.

If you take the oil, it's non-psychogenic. If you had to take the buds themselves you could use a vaporizer. Worse comes to worse you could make brownies. But some way, some how, if I had to steal it or hurt someone for it I would get it.

Pretty silly when you come to think of it - how a harmless plant could cause such controversy.


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## Happyflowerlady (Mar 6, 2014)

Another aspect of the legalization of cannabis in some states , is that when you get a card allowing you to use pot for medicinal use, you are no longer allowed to legally own a firearm. Since , on a national level, pot is still an illegal drug, you can't use it and own a firearm, even though it is legal in the state.  So, basically, it is another method of disarming people.
This is happening in all of the states that are legalizing marijuana. 
Here is one article that explains it, but a quick google search will turn up information on other states, as well.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3108931/posts


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## Geezerette (Mar 6, 2014)

I just wish that there would be more support of separating out the curative chemicals in it. Smoking it is going to be bad for peoples lungs and always has been. One of the dearest friends of my whole life was an advocate for legalization & smoked it & grew it, and only exposure to tobacco was a few cigs in early 20's . Otherwise healthy life style & died of lung cancer at age 63.


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## That Guy (Mar 6, 2014)

Geezerette said:


> I just wish that there would be more support of separating out the curative chemicals in it. Smoking it is going to be bad for peoples lungs and always has been. One of the dearest friends of my whole life was an advocate for legalization & smoked it & grew it, and only exposure to tobacco was a few cigs in early 20's . Otherwise healthy life style & died of lung cancer at age 63.



There are other ways of ingesting besides smoking.  Ah, the good ol' brownies!


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## That Guy (Mar 6, 2014)

Read lately that our stupid gubbner Jerry Brown says legalizing marijuana in California will ruin the state because of too many potheads.  What an asinine statement.  Sounds like something out of Reefer Madness that only a worthless politician would spout hoping to garner support from the right wingers in Orange County . . .   Bleah!


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## SifuPhil (Mar 6, 2014)

Happyflowerlady said:


> Another aspect of the legalization of cannabis in some states , is that when you get a card allowing you to use pot for medicinal use, you are no longer allowed to legally own a firearm. Since , on a national level, pot is still an illegal drug, you can't use it and own a firearm, even though it is legal in the state.  So, basically, it is another method of disarming people.
> This is happening in all of the states that are legalizing marijuana.
> Here is one article that explains it, but a quick google search will turn up information on other states, as well.
> 
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3108931/posts



I have to say, personal opinion, the guy was a jerk for even bringing the topic up. He could have done like hundreds of thousands of others and "just said no".


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## Happyflowerlady (Mar 6, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> I have to say, personal opinion, the guy was a jerk for even bringing the topic up. He could have done like hundreds of thousands of others and "just said no".



Well, I agree with you about that part, and most people would "just say no"; but that is not the point that I was trying to bring out. Check other articles pointing out the same gun-confiscation requirement in other states.
The issue is NOT going to depend on whether you say yes or no, It is going to come down to whether you have a state-issued card saying that you can use marijuana for medical treatment.
 Once each state legalizes pot, they then issue medical authorization cards to people that want to use pot for treatment. 

If you get one of those little cards, you can no longer legally own a gun. So, part of the "hidden agenda" of pot legalization, is more ways to take people's weapons away. 
Just like they are trying to do with our Vets. If they are being treated for PTSD, the government wants to declare them unsafe to own guns, and confiscate their weapons. When you go to a VA clinic now, the doctor will ask you whether you have any weapons, and the answer is reported to the main VA headquarters. 
Of course, this is another occasion to "just say no", and hope it works.
 It probably will work for a while, but they are pulling the net in, and we are the fish.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 6, 2014)

Happyflowerlady said:


> ... It probably will work for a while, but they are pulling the net in, and we are the fish.



What do you mean "we", Kimosabe? 

I understand what you're saying but I'm not sure whether or not I agree with it. It's certainly the stuff of a hearty conspiracy theory, and you KNOW for the most part I'm okay with those.

Truth be known I never made the connection between medical marijuana and gun ownership before - you've given me cause to cogitate. 

Thank you!


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## SifuPhil (Mar 7, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> I never did get into the “_Tune in, turn on and drop out_” stuff. In the UK we called it ‘_dope_’ for a reason.




That specific phrase was created for LSD, not for cannabis. 



> The problem with it being legalised is its obvious potential for abuse.



How will it be abused? How CAN it be abused? 



> There is also always a problem that Doctor’s will over prescribe it’s use instead of trying an holistic approach.



It IS a holistic treatment.



> _Feeling_ better, is not always an alternative to being better.



Countless studies and experiments have shown that real results have been achieved, not just "feeling better".



> If it is introduced though, it ought to be only available on prescription from a qualified Doctor and when all else has failed, not as a cheap form of pain relief to save medical insurance companies money.



So you're in favor of continuing the medical / insurance model of "soak 'em 'til they're dry"? 




> I’d rather die of lung disease than be so spaced out I didn’t even know it. I don’t mind taking medication if I have to, but I draw the line at that, which unless absolutely necessary, alters my perception of reality.



You don't get "spaced out" on medical marijuana. The dosages and forms of administration aren't designed for thrill-seekers - they're designed to facilitate healing.

Alterations of your perceptions of reality occur on a daily basis whether you use pharmaceuticals, cannabis or nothing at all.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 7, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> My apologies for the terminology. The ones I’ve seen using any kind of drug already looked a waste of time whatever it was called.




A gross generalization perhaps, but all right ... 




> How can cannabis be misused? Is that a serious question? (The same as it is now, except that legalisation would make it more readily available and therefore more widely used).



It is indeed a serious question. I suppose it depends upon your definition of "abuse", but it remains a fact that there has never been an accidental overdose of cannabis. Yes, it can be abused in the same manner as tobacco and alcohol, but the nature of the substance is such that it does not lend itself as easily to abuse as those two substances nor are the end results the same.



> I wouldn’t call it an holistic treatment, a holistic diagnosis looks at the whole.



I would think your argument then would be with the doctors doing the diagnostics rather than cannabis itself.

It's just a tool - how one chooses to use it will determine how holistic it is. By my standards, using a common weed as a curative is holistic.



> Sorry, I’m simply not into mind altering substances and my reality is fine without it. I suppose someone soon will make a thought out proposal to legalise crack and heroin to provide pain relief – that will work as well. Society is littered with people who proposed their choice of self-medication and I’m content to stay as anti-legalisation as is humanly possible.



That's fine - the less reliance we place on things the better off we become. I agree totally.

Re: legalizing crack and heroin - here in the States the DEA has chosen to continue classifying marijuana with heroin as Schedule I drugs, meaning they have high potential for abuse and have no medical usage, which of course is totally false in the case of marijuana. 

Cocaine is a Schedule II drug, meaning it has lesser chance of addiction (really?) and has some medical usage. Ritalin and Adderall are in the same class as cocaine, yet we dispense them to our kids like candy if they show the slightest signs of being hyperactive or attention-deficit.

The entire DEA schedule system is *severely* in need of overhaul in light of of the last 25 years of research.



> http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsdisorders/cannabis.aspx



A quote from a section of that article - 



> *How is it used?*
> 
> Most commonly, the resin or the dried leaves are mixed with tobacco and smoked as a ‘spliff’ or ‘joint’.



The leaves are *NOT* smoked - it is the _buds_, the flowering _tops_ of the plant, that are smoked. Smoke the leaves and all you'll get in return is a headache - they have extremely low THC content.

This I think shows the general level of knowledge of the authors of this reference.




> I’m sure you can provide contrary evidence to support it and so it remains a matter of individual choice. Just as an aside, I never met one addict to Class A substances that didn’t start off experimenting with dope.



It doesn't remain a matter of individual choice as long as governments regulate it.

Your argument of cannabis being a gateway drug is so outdated that I'm afraid I'm speechless at this point.


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## Ina (Mar 7, 2014)

Just sayin, Our addicted society began a long time go, hundreds of years, when water wasn't safe to drink. It was common practise for people to drink wine, beer, grog, mead, and many other alcoholic beverages to avoid the sicknesses of tainted water. And drugs were prevalent and legal. This went on for hundreds of years. It left us ALL with addiction tendencies. Most of us just conveniently try to forget that.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 7, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> How can cannabis be misused and overdoses? My point didn’t concern overdoses, my point was that it helps to produce a drug dependent society. Not only has it led to further experimentation to those seeking further ‘highs’, but it stupefies the mind. To sit giggling inanely at a wall can’t be beneficial for the individual or society.



The line about marijuana being a gate-way drug has been, as I mentioned previously, all but discarded by both users and analysts. 

"Sitting giggling insanely at a wall" - I must admit, in the 30 or so years that I used weed I never did that. I DID come up with some amazing insights, wrote some fantastic articles and had a great time with my lady-friends. My socialization skills improved as well. 



> I don’t know the U.S. problem with various types of drugs, but in the U.K, it’s a major problem along the lines of an epidemic. From dope, to crack to heroin, our inner cities are awash with it. So by the way is a binge drinking alcohol problem. In the past couple of decades crack and heroin are now so readily available on the streets that dope has now been replaced by the class ‘A’ (the highest), drugs of heroin and crack as the ‘recreational’ choice. Why this has happened is open to interpretation, but the State ought to interfere where sections of society deliberately try to destroy themselves, not further promote the destruction. It appears the U.S. still has to learn these lessons.



Just a point of clarification, please - you're using "dope" as a name for marijuana, correct? 

Our cities are full of crack-heads and heroin addicts as well. Totally different substances than marijuana, and I don't believe they should be legalized nor even decriminalized.

I don't, however, hold with the State interfering with private citizens who are harming only themselves - that goes a bit too far. If a crime is committed in pursuit of purchasing Class A drugs then yes, increase their sentences. But not for marijuana.



> In countries where marijuana legalisation has been tried it has been a failure. Try a visit to a rehab’ centre and see the effects of _all_ types of drug misuse.
> Legislation is not an American invention. Some effects in various countries where marijuana legislation has been permitted:
> 
> http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/bldea050426_3.htm



Ouch! Another article by an expert - I'll say this, everyone has an opinion, and the opinions of About.com are about as trustworthy and well-researched as those in _MAD_ magazine. 

The reason that Amsterdam began to have problems with their coffeehouses was that there was a huge influx of European "drug tourists" wanting to take advantage of the legality of marijuana, and they behaved like typical tourists - no regard for laws, no regard for the locals. Amsterdam has also undergone a massive influx of new blood in the form of Turks, Moroccans and other ethnic groups that once again choose to keep their ethnic ways instead of adapting to the ones of their new host. 

I'm afraid we're at cross-purposes here - you seem to want to lump marijuana into the pot (!) along with hard drugs, while I'm viewing it as a separate and distinct entity.



> I am not an expert on its usage, smoking the ‘buds’ is meaningless to me; I wouldn’t touch the stuff, but I have been involved professionally with people who use drugs and seen the after affects. Promoting one substance over another is, to put it politely, ‘junkie talk’.



... and it appears you see things in terms of black or white, while I see many shades of gray ...



> Try this site for a comparison of the for and against arguments.
> 
> http://debatewise.org/debates/2-cannabis-is-harmful/



Totally erroneous information. Sorry.




> Every single person I ever met in my stint in mental health, bar none, bitterly regretted their involvement in taking mind altering substances of any kind.



A person that enters the mental health system has underlying pathologies that are only exasperated by the use of psychoactive substances. Don't blame the tool for poor workmanship - blame the user.


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## Happyflowerlady (Mar 7, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> How can cannabis be misused and overdoses? My point didn’t concern overdoses, my point was that it helps to produce a drug dependent society. Not only has it led to further experimentation to those seeking further ‘highs’, but it stupefies the mind. To sit giggling inanely at a wall can’t be beneficial for the individual or society.
> 
> There was already a drug-dependant society well on its way, long before the "HIppie Generation" discovered smoking Marijuana. The doctors have prescribed very addictive drugs for many years, and I remember housewives being hooked on Valium, and soldiers returning home from the wars that were addicted to heroin.
> Drinking alcohol has addicted many more people than probably any other drug; yet it is available everywhere. Most people had used alcohol before they ever tried pot.
> ...




Living with your mind non-functional from ANY substance is regrettable, in my opinion.


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## Happyflowerlady (Mar 7, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> I’d never be able to convince you SifuPhil and it’s not my intention to. For every person that escaped the destruction drug misuse produces there are ten that didn’t. It’s rather like the smoker who’s smoked all his life and is fortunate enough to escape lung cancer, living well into his 70’s and wonders what all the fuss is about. What you’re telling me I’ve heard many times from those that use. You believe your choice of drug should be legalized, others using different choices of drug prefer theirs to be legalized. You may be the 70 year old smoker I just mentioned and I wish you luck in your continued use.
> 
> There is no grey area, you either misuse substances to produce mind altering effects, or you don’t. The type is an individual choice. Mental health involvement begins with the premise that there is already a physiological problem with the individual prior to drug use, but that continued use over periods _produces_ adverse physiological effects.
> 
> ...




It totally seems to me JS, that you are just lumping ALL drugs together, and objecting to drug misuse.  That is a completely DIFFERENT subject, and one that I am sure we all are agreeing with you about. 
People who abuse drugs are ruining their mind, their body, and their future, all with one fell swoop.
 It IS epidemic, encouraged by those who make money selling the drugs (legally or illegally), and the issue needs to be addressed.

The actual topic that is being discussed here, is NOT drug abuse; but the possibility of helping to cure/treat illness. 
Cocaine, morphine, oxycodene, and all of the other addictive drugs that are sold on the street illegally, are also used to make legal drugs that are prescribed by doctors to treat pain and illness. 
You are not objecting to these drugs when used medicinally; yet you can't see the possibility of using a natural herb to treat medical symptoms, and I don't understand your reasoning for that. 
That is kind of like the old proverb about not "throwing out the baby with the bathwater".
If a treatment helps people, and it is used responsibly, then where is the problem ??  If a drug is misused, and harms a person, then it is not right, even if it is prescribed by a doctor.

Common sense and moderation should prevail in all things....


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 7, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> In the words of UK government advice, "_Say NO to drugs_". That's the message put out across the country and it's good advice for those tempted to experiment.



I'd have more faith in "government advice", if they said "Say *NO *to *PRESCRIPTION *drugs".  *Much *higher chance of being addicted to pharmaceutical pain killers, anti-depressants, anti-anxiety pills, than from the natural Marijuana plant.

I won't even get into all the serious side-effects of all of those prescription drugs, in comparison to Cannabis.  How many deaths has Marijuana caused...how many deaths has prescription drugs "*recommended*" by the government and their pharmaceutical corporation interests caused??  How many homicides and suicides have been contributed to the use of anti-psychotic prescription drugs....how many from the use of Marijuana??


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## SifuPhil (Mar 7, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> ... I am against mind altering drugs available by law to the general population.



So you are against coffee, tea, soft drinks, several dozen spices, chocolate ... ?


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 7, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> It’s not that marijuana kills by dosage, rather it destroys lives. Yes, misused pharmaceutical drugs kill, but not when taken in prescribed doses.
> P.S. That’s not just my opinion. Physciatrists National health warnings, government advice . . . . .



I have to disagree. I haven't heard of anyone who used marijuana recreationally or medically, and had their lives destroyed.  However, I have heard of patients who were under doctor's care and using their anti-psychotic medications in the prescribed doses, having their lives ruined, either by committing suicide or murder.  Too many examples of pharmaceuticals used for those purposes with severe side-effects to list.  You will continue to believe in everything the psychiatrists and government tells you, and that is your right.  I respect your opinion, and have no desire whatsoever to change it.  We shall just have to agree to disagree.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 7, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> Yes I believe in physciatry and also what I’ve personally seen; it’s why the government warnings. I never personally used and so I don’t speak from a user’s experience, but then again, I never put my hand in the fire to test a theory either. I have met many of those that did though. Continue to use or continue to support, it’s your choice, but hopefully your own children won’t take that same view.



I'm not using any drugs, prescription or otherwise, but I will continue to support natural alternative methods as opposed to pharmaceuticals for many conditions.  If I'm in pain, I'd much rather be prescribed cannabis oil as a treatment, instead of the harmful and addictive Oxycodone, for example.  If I had children, I would expect them to research all the positives and negatives of both prescription and natural alternatives, and make the choice for themselves.  I would hope that they would share my views, they'd be much healthier mentally and physically if they did.

http://www.breggin.com/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-pet..._b_989536.html


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 8, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> “_There are so many articles we collect linking marijuana to violence, it’s hard to pick which to print – room here, is limited. _




• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

• Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazepine.

• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

• Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.
 Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?
• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado? (ZOLOFT)
• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?
• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?                     (previously on CELEXA)


 
                            Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_ma...#ixzz2fHaNGdNo


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## That Guy (Mar 8, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> If the above altered my state of perception and led to mental illness then yes, I’d be all for banning those as well.



Yikes.  So much for freedom of choice and personal responsibility...


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## Happyflowerlady (Mar 8, 2014)

It seems to me that if all of the ones who have done these atrocious killings were ON the drugs, and none of the shootings were done by people that were NOT on the drugs, the statistics definitely show the connection between the anti-depressant drugs, and the senseless killings; and not just a connection between mental instability and senseless killings.

CeeCee, I am on medication for my heart, and totally agree that medications can be a good thing, and sometimes they are a very lifesaver. It is the overuse of mind-altering sedatives and anti-depressants, etc., that I am against.

I believe in having doctor treatment when needed; but in cases like mine, where the heart is simply worn out, and there is nothing more that doctors can do, then I believe that the final responsibility for preserving my life, is up to me.  
There is nothing left for me but natural healing, so that is where I spend my time studying, and looking for anything that might help.


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## That Guy (Mar 8, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> But if you wanted to take drugs for recreational use I'd have no objection and that's because I no longer help to clean up the mess. Do your own thing brother and all that, but then don't complain about the state of the society you live in?



I don't believe the state of the state was brought on by smoking pot.  Perhaps, one might look to corruption and greed in politics and big business...


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## SifuPhil (Mar 8, 2014)

That Guy said:


> I don't believe the state of the state was brought on by smoking pot.  Perhaps, one might look to corruption and greed in politics and big business...



Oh, but none of _them_ inhale ...


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## That Guy (Mar 8, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Oh, but none of _them_ inhale ...



Nothing worse than a high psychopath getting off on being evil.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 8, 2014)

That Guy said:


> Nothing worse than a high psychopath getting off on being evil.



... unless you work for them or vote for them ...


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## That Guy (Mar 8, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> ... unless you work for them or vote for them ...



Does this take us back to Just sayin's statement of not complaining about the state of the state?  Of course, I support complaining at all times...


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## SifuPhil (Mar 8, 2014)

That Guy said:


> Does this take us back to Just sayin's statement of not complaining about the state of the state?  Of course, I support complaining at all times...



I tried out in junior high school for the JV Kvetching Team - they said I was already a pro.


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## That Guy (Mar 9, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> I tried out in junior high school for the JV Kvetching Team - they said I was already a pro.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 9, 2014)




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## That Guy (Mar 9, 2014)




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## That Guy (Mar 9, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


>



Grows like a weed . . . !


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## That Guy (Mar 9, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> A better idea might be to re-open physciatric hospitals for those deemed at risk, instead of ‘Care in the Community’, which those recommending that the community take care of the mentally ill, conveniently forget that hospitals were initially set up precisely because Care in the Community didn’t work. Then of course we get into the issue of human rights and what is the criteria for hospitalization proposed for those ‘at risk’ either to themselves or others . . . . . Meanwhile, it all just carries on; the casualties hidden away in prisons, the inner cities and rehabilitation centers – out of sight out of mind.



Could not agree with you more, sir.  Well said.


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## That Guy (Mar 9, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> I don’t know how the rest of you feel, but I’m grateful that I wasn’t born into the up and coming generation. Now _there’s_ a generation that will have problems a couple of more decades down the line.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 10, 2014)

Just sayin said:


> ... A better idea might be to re-open physciatric hospitals for those deemed at risk, instead of ‘Care in the Community’, which those recommending that the community take care of the mentally ill, conveniently forget that hospitals were initially set up precisely because Care in the Community didn’t work. Then of course we get into the issue of human rights and what is the criteria for hospitalization proposed for those ‘at risk’ either to themselves or others . . . . . Meanwhile, it all just carries on; the casualties hidden away in prisons, the inner cities and rehabilitation centers – out of sight out of mind ...



Ah, yes, let's bring back those venerable institutions that served society so well ...


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## That Guy (Mar 10, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Ah, yes, let's bring back those venerable institutions that served society so well ...



Setting the mentally ill loose on the streets hasn't proved exactly wonderful.  So, what is the solution?


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## SifuPhil (Mar 10, 2014)

That Guy said:


> Setting the mentally ill loose on the streets hasn't proved exactly wonderful.  So, what is the solution?



Birth control and public executions.


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