# Pulling the Plug



## debodun (Jan 23, 2017)

How disabled would you have to be to want someone to "pull the plug"?


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## Don M. (Jan 23, 2017)

If I were ever diagnosed with an incurable illness that would make me basically bed-ridden, and dependent upon drugs just to maintain a pulse, I would far rather just ask the doctor for an ample supply of pain pills, and let nature take its course.  Laying in some care facility for weeks, months or years, would by my idea of Hell.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 23, 2017)

I don't want to get to the point that I have to ask anyone to pull my plug.  

I want to have the option to do it myself at any point in time.  Just knowing that I have the option would give me the strength to go on for another day.  If I do get to the point where I'm going to live another six months or so and the pain, hassle, cost, etc... mounts up and becomes unbearable I would take my pill and drift away.  

I will be glad when the laws finally change and this becomes an option available to everyone.  The whole business of the current MacGyver style assisted suicide scares me more than living.  I would be afraid that I would botch the job and live for several years hooked to a machine.  IMO it's time to bring the whole business out into the light and make it legal.


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## NancyNGA (Jan 23, 2017)

Bedridden would be OK, as long as I can Tweet.


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## Bobw235 (Jan 23, 2017)

If I got as bad as my mother-in-law, who is suffering from dementia, is basically bedridden, can barely communicate most of the time and has no quality of life. I would not want to live like that. My wife and I have advanced healthcare directives and cover quite a few conditions where we've specified that we'd not want to be kept alive by artificial means.


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## Shalimar (Jan 23, 2017)

I have a do not resuscitate order, also,should I face losing my independence, physically, or mentally, it is goodnight pills for me.


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## Bobw235 (Jan 23, 2017)

We faced this decision with my late father-in-law in late 2015. He had mid stage Alzheimers, but was still functioning. Fell one night and fractured his pelvis. Internal bleeding caused complications that led to his heart stopping, but the hospital resuscitated him despite a DNR because the caregiver didn't send it with him to the hospital. Long story short, we were told his kidneys were failing, would need dialysis in addition to months of rehab for the fracture. My wife and her sister agreed he'd never want to live like that and withdrew the respirator he was on. He died peacefully in his sleep the next morning, in a hospice bed (down the hall from the ICU), free from machines and pain, and I like to think he knew we were there until a few hours before he passed.


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## Butterfly (Jan 23, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> I don't want to get to the point that I have to ask anyone to pull my plug.
> 
> I want to have the option to do it myself at any point in time.  Just knowing that I have the option would give me the strength to go on for another day.  If I do get to the point where I'm going to live another six months or so and the pain, hassle, cost, etc... mounts up and becomes unbearable I would take my pill and drift away.
> 
> I will be glad when the laws finally change and this becomes an option available to everyone.  The whole business of the current MacGyver style assisted suicide scares me more than living.  I would be afraid that I would botch the job and live for several years hooked to a machine.  IMO it's time to bring the whole business out into the light and make it legal.



I completely agree, Aunt Bea. We should have the right to make that decision, and the government shouldn't be sticking it's big fat nose into it. Living in constant pain and fear is no life at all.

I understand that many people do not share this view, but I do not believe they have the right to make decisions for the rest of us.  I don't know why they think they do.  We have an ongoing battle in this state about this issue.


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## Lon (Jan 23, 2017)

I would like to be able to bow out at a time of my choosing via a pill.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 23, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> I don't want to get to the point that I have to ask anyone to pull my plug.
> 
> I want to have the option to do it myself at any point in time.  Just knowing that I have the option would give me the strength to go on for another day.  If I do get to the point where I'm going to live another six months or so and the pain, hassle, cost, etc... mounts up and becomes unbearable I would take my pill and drift away.
> 
> I will be glad when the laws finally change and this becomes an option available to everyone.  The whole business of the current MacGyver style assisted suicide scares me more than living.  I would be afraid that I would botch the job and live for several years hooked to a machine.  IMO it's time to bring the whole business out into the light and make it legal.



Same here Bea, right to die is now legal where I live, so I'll have that option unless I don't want to go through all the red tape and decide to do it myself.  My biggest fear is getting Alzheimer's and not being able to decide anything.  I think I could live pretty long with a physical disability, of course if I was painfully suffering from cancer treatments and my prognosis was poor, I'd probably want to end it pretty quickly.  A couple of close relatives died from cancer and probably would have loved to have the option to end it all sooner.  https://www.deathwithdignity.org/take-action/


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## Butterfly (Jan 24, 2017)

SeaBreeze said:


> Same here Bea, right to die is now legal where I live, so I'll have that option unless I don't want to go through all the red tape and decide to do it myself.  My biggest fear is getting Alzheimer's and not being able to decide anything.  I think I could live pretty long with a physical disability, of course if I was painfully suffering from cancer treatments and my prognosis was poor, I'd probably want to end it pretty quickly.  A couple of close relatives died from cancer and probably would have loved to have the option to end it all sooner.  https://www.deathwithdignity.org/take-action/



Yeah, my niece died of cancer at 40.  Every time the did something to prolong her life they really weren't prolonging her life, but actually prolonging her long and painful death.  It was absolutely horrific.  When my mother died some 35 years ago, she knew she was terminal, as did my niece, but in my mother's case she tried chemotherapy and declared that if she was going to die soon she didn't want to spend her last days vomiting, so she opted out of treatment and received adequate pain meds and other supportive drugs and did very well until about her last week or so.  Nowdays, with the FDA so worried about terminal cancer patients getting addicted to opioids, you can't really do that any more.  We fought tooth and claw to get her anywhere near adequate pain control.  It's an atrocity to be more worried about terminal cancer patients becoming addicted than about elimination of their pain.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 24, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> It's an atrocity to be more worried about terminal cancer patients becoming addicted than about elimination of their pain.



I agree, it seems to me that death would cure the addiction and I have no medical training.


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## Bobw235 (Jan 24, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Yeah, my niece died of cancer at 40.  Every time the did something to prolong her life they really weren't prolonging her life, but actually prolonging her long and painful death.  It was absolutely horrific.  When my mother died some 35 years ago, she knew she was terminal, as did my niece, but in my mother's case she tried chemotherapy and declared that if she was going to die soon she didn't want to spend her last days vomiting, so she opted out of treatment and received adequate pain meds and other supportive drugs and did very well until about her last week or so.  Nowdays, with the FDA so worried about terminal cancer patients getting addicted to opioids, you can't really do that any more.  We fought tooth and claw to get her anywhere near adequate pain control.  It's an atrocity to be more worried about terminal cancer patients becoming addicted than about elimination of their pain.



As a hospice volunteer (yet to have a patient, but have gone through all the training), my impression is that hospice intervention can pretty much control pain for most people, though certain forms (bone cancer comes to mind), it's tougher, but still quite possible. They and the doctors prescribing the meds have zero qualms about addiction and are quite aggressive in treating pain for those under their care. Given all I've learned thus far, I have little doubt that if hospice were an option for me, I'd choose that route if at all possible. I'd like knowing that I was being kept comfortable in my final days.


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## debodun (Jan 24, 2017)

It's like the veterinarian said to me when I had to have my cat put down a few weeks ago, "It's not the quantity, it's the quality of life."

With a pet, it perfectly legal to have it euthanized, but for human, it looks like the policy is "life at any cost".


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## maplebeez (Jan 24, 2017)

Nancy, my doctor now wants me to start taking medications to lower my cholesterol & keep my osteoporosis from worsening, in addition to the long list of other medications I now take. Though I'm nearing 70, I'm not yet ready for the rocking chair, the nursing home or being bedridden. Concerned keeping track of all these doses of medicines is going to put a crimp in my active lifestyle.  Think it's too late for me to become a Christian-Scientist?


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## Bobw235 (Jan 24, 2017)

debodun said:


> It like the veterinarian said to me when I had to have my cat put down a few weeks ago, "It's not the quantity, it's the quality of life."
> 
> With a pet, it perfectly legal to have it euthanized, but for human, it looks like the policy is "life at any cost".



And that's where I think hospice care gives some folks a good alternative, letting you live out your remaining days in the best way possible. I'm not against folks having the option to end their lives when all hope is gone, I'm just saying there is another way should you ever find yourself in such circumstances. Medicare pays for it.


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## grannyjo (Jan 24, 2017)

And then,  there is my sister.  For well over 12 months now,  she has not been able to walk, talk, shower, toilet, feed,  or do anything for herself.  But she is being kept alive.

She recognises no-one - sometimes when approached by her daughter,  she shrinks back and begins to wail.

Recently, the nursing home sent her to hospital to have a catheter inserted and and drip installed so that she was re-hydrated.

Her body may well be alive,  but she is not a living person.  She's 87.

I do feel that it is time for her to be let go.

By the way,  the Nursing home receives $1500 for each week she is in their care.


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## Don M. (Jan 24, 2017)

The best thing a person can do...with regard to their "end of life" wishes, is to get all the legal paperwork in order while they are still of sound mind.  Wills, Powers of Attorney, Living Wills, Do Not resuscitate documents, etc., are all good things to have in place should something happen.  And...make sure the kids or any other relatives are on board with everything.  We have such a file, and we've had the discussions with the kids, and gave them copies.  I would Not want to put our kids in a position where they had to make such decisions....we want their memories to be positive.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Jan 24, 2017)

My Mom had Hospice. It was great. She really only had it about a week before she passed away. I was able to choose how little or how much care I wanted to give her myself. I choose to do it all, but it was such a comfort knowing they were there for me if I needed them. My Mom was on morphine for lung cancer. I had just gotten the scrip filled for tablets. The very next day she went down hill so fast and couldn't swallow them. I called the doctor for liquid morphine and she wouldn't order it because I had just gotten the pills the day before. I called Hospice and they did the fighting for me. Within hours the liquid morphine was at my door. I do have a DNR in place though as does the hubby.


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## Butterfly (Jan 24, 2017)

Bobw235 said:


> As a hospice volunteer (yet to have a patient, but have gone through all the training), my impression is that hospice intervention can pretty much control pain for most people, though certain forms (bone cancer comes to mind), it's tougher, but still quite possible. They and the doctors prescribing the meds have zero qualms about addiction and are quite aggressive in treating pain for those under their care. Given all I've learned thus far, I have little doubt that if hospice were an option for me, I'd choose that route if at all possible. I'd like knowing that I was being kept comfortable in my final days.



Hospice did not adequately control my niece's pain, nor her agitation, nor her terror.  She died in a hospital hospice and it was one of the worst nights of my life.  She died screaming and thrashing and painfully struggling for breath.  We were begging the nurses for more meds, but they said she'd had all she could have.  Hell, she was dying, what difference could it make, except to mercifully shorten her death throes.

Besides which, you have to be under hospice care.  My mother just wanted to live her life, with adequate pain meds and other supportive drugs.  She was pretty much able to do so, but she couldn't do that now -- they'd be too worried she'd become addicted or sell her drugs on the street, both of which are stupid.  As someone said above, death does indeed cure addiction, and a woman in pain certainly does not sell her drugs. 

Sorry if I seem angry, nothing against you or where you work, but I am still very angry about how my niece was treated, and I'm angry about how the FDA puts people who are really suffering through all their "addiction" rubbish.  I'd slash my throat before I went through what she went through.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Jan 24, 2017)

Butterfly, I totally understand. My grandmother was at home dying of cancer. She badly needed a wheelchair because they still insisted that she go for radiation treatments. She could no longer walk. We had to carry her down the steps. They told us none were available and this went on for weeks. Two days before she died they brought one. After her death my mom called them to come and get the chair. That chair sat in the living room for 6 weeks! My grandfather had to look at that day in and day out. I doubt that was a coincidence that all of a sudden they didn't need any wheel chairs for other people. I have not given a red cent to the cancer society since and never will. I'm sure others will disagree just as they do about doctors,hospitals and all other services but a bad experience like that you don't forget easily..


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## Bobw235 (Jan 24, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Hospice did not adequately control my niece's pain, nor her agitation, nor her terror.  She died in a hospital hospice and it was one of the worst nights of my life.  She died screaming and thrashing and painfully struggling for breath.  We were begging the nurses for more meds, but they said she'd had all she could have.  Hell, she was dying, what difference could it make, except to mercifully shorten her death throes.
> 
> Besides which, you have to be under hospice care.  My mother just wanted to live her life, with adequate pain meds and other supportive drugs.  She was pretty much able to do so, but she couldn't do that now -- they'd be too worried she'd become addicted or sell her drugs on the street, both of which are stupid.  As someone said above, death does indeed cure addiction, and a woman in pain certainly does not sell her drugs.
> 
> Sorry if I seem angry, nothing against you or where you work, but I am still very angry about how my niece was treated, and I'm angry about how the FDA puts people who are really suffering through all their "addiction" rubbish.  I'd slash my throat before I went through what she went through.



Butterfly, what a horrible experience for you and your niece. I can totally see why you feel the way you do. I'm new to the hospice experience as I said. How long ago was this? All I can do is relate to what I've been taught, which is that our hospice nurses are told that pain management is a top priority. Maybe things have changed over time. Sorry you had such a bad experience. That must have been awful and I can see why you'd be bitter.


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## Butterfly (Jan 25, 2017)

Bobw235 said:


> Butterfly, what a horrible experience for you and your niece. I can totally see why you feel the way you do. I'm new to the hospice experience as I said. How long ago was this? All I can do is relate to what I've been taught, which is that our hospice nurses are told that pain management is a top priority. Maybe things have changed over time. Sorry you had such a bad experience. That must have been awful and I can see why you'd be bitter.



This was in 2015.


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## Butterfly (Jan 25, 2017)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> Butterfly, I totally understand. My grandmother was at home dying of cancer. She badly needed a wheelchair because they still insisted that she go for radiation treatments. She could no longer walk. We had to carry her down the steps. They told us none were available and this went on for weeks. Two days before she died they brought one. After her death my mom called them to come and get the chair. That chair sat in the living room for 6 weeks! My grandfather had to look at that day in and day out. I doubt that was a coincidence that all of a sudden they didn't need any wheel chairs for other people. I have not given a red cent to the cancer society since and never will. I'm sure others will disagree just as they do about doctors,hospitals and all other services but a bad experience like that you don't forget easily..



I will not donate to them either.  I believe they mostly get in the way, and I doubt that very much of the donated money gets any farther than paying for advertisements, executive salaries, etc.  I've become quite jaded about big charities.


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## Debby (Jan 25, 2017)

Bobw235 said:


> We faced this decision with my late father-in-law in late 2015. He had mid stage Alzheimers, but was still functioning. Fell one night and fractured his pelvis. Internal bleeding caused complications that led to his heart stopping, but the hospital resuscitated him despite a DNR because the caregiver didn't send it with him to the hospital. Long story short, we were told his kidneys were failing, would need dialysis in addition to months of rehab for the fracture. My wife and her sister agreed he'd never want to live like that and withdrew the respirator he was on. He died peacefully in his sleep the next morning, in a hospice bed (down the hall from the ICU), free from machines and pain, and I like to think he knew we were there until a few hours before he passed.




That was so much kinder a way that your wife and her sister handled that sad situation.  I'm so glad for their father that they did that.

One thing that I've learned from your words here is that our end of life instructions should be handy by the door (as we age) so that in the event we wind up in a crisis situation, our wishes are available to all who will be involved in our 'care'.  Making a mental note that having mine stuck in a box in the back of my closet is NOT the place for those directives.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jan 25, 2017)

Pain is a factor for me. And I guess it's financial. Is it really necessary to spend thousands to live a few weeks longer? I don't want to go. But what is better, to spend thousands to help someone much younger to have a better quality of life, or to spend the same amount on me to exist a few weeks more?


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## Bobw235 (Jan 26, 2017)

Debby said:


> That was so much kinder a way that your wife and her sister handled that sad situation.  I'm so glad for their father that they did that.
> 
> One thing that I've learned from your words here is that our end of life instructions should be handy by the door (as we age) so that in the event we wind up in a crisis situation, our wishes are available to all who will be involved in our 'care'.  Making a mental note that having mine stuck in a box in the back of my closet is NOT the place for those directives.



In one respect, it was outrageous that the DNR wasn't given to the EMTs who transported him to the hospital the night he fell, because it was right there on the refrigerator, mere feet from where he fell. My father-in-law was conscious and talking when they came to get him. He did everything right, but the health aid working that night was not his regular person and may not have known that the DNR was there in plain sight. 

On the other hand, at the time, no one would have thought that this fall would result in my dying from complications. At least this way we all got to say our goodbyes and be with him in his final hours and comfort him. 

To your point about making your wishes known, yes that's a wise thing to do. We have our info on file with our primary care physicians and have told our son and other loved ones of our wishes. Our documents are in a binder that's clearly labeled and easy to spot.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 29, 2017)

My living will states that I do not want to be kept alive by artificial means. I do not want to be hooked up to a bunch of machines, including a feeding tube. The hospitals around here advise pulling the plug anyway if you are considered brain dead for more than two or three days. They did it with my uncle. I believe its because some insurances don't want to pay for it.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 29, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Hospice did not adequately control my niece's pain, nor her agitation, nor her terror.  She died in a hospital hospice and it was one of the worst nights of my life.  She died screaming and thrashing and painfully struggling for breath.  We were begging the nurses for more meds, but they said she'd had all she could have.  Hell, she was dying, what difference could it make, except to mercifully shorten her death throes.
> 
> Besides which, you have to be under hospice care.  My mother just wanted to live her life, with adequate pain meds and other supportive drugs.  She was pretty much able to do so, but she couldn't do that now -- they'd be too worried she'd become addicted or sell her drugs on the street, both of which are stupid.  As someone said above, death does indeed cure addiction, and a woman in pain certainly does not sell her drugs.
> 
> Sorry if I seem angry, nothing against you or where you work, but I am still very angry about how my niece was treated, and I'm angry about how the FDA puts people who are really suffering through all their "addiction" rubbish.  I'd slash my throat before I went through what she went through.


I understand why you are angry about what happened to your niece. That must have been so terrible for you. My grandmother had pancreatic cancer and she was under hospice care for maybe three weeks before she died. I took off from work so I could stay with her as much as possible. I don't remember her being anywhere near the state your niece was in. It was painful enough watching her die as she laid there quietly. I just can't imagine what you went through!! Their main concern under the circumstances should have been to make sure your niece was comfortable at all times. May she Rest In Peace.


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