# Do you have a gay family member?



## Glinda

How do you feel about him/her?  Have you and the other family members accepted his/her sexuality?  Would you change this person if you could?  I'd like to know your experience because I have a brother who is gay.  I wouldn't change one thing about him.  He's my best friend and I love him.


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## tnthomas

My son is gay, I absolutely love and respect him, and categorically reject any notion that there is anything "wrong" with him.

you can't pray away the gay, being gay is not a 'choice'.   I don't have any contact with his mother, but I know her to be rigid in her views, and the word "tolorence" is not in her vocabulary.   Everyone else in the family accepts him, without reservation.


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## jujube

Oh, yes indeedy.   One I haven't seen in years because she doesn't have much to do with the family (her choice, not the family's) and the other one is my cousin who I love dearly but can't be around much....not because of his ****** orientation but because he's nuttier than a fruitcake (no pun intended....) and has had several brushes with the law.


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## Josiah

Yes, my eldest son is gay. We've always had a good relationship and he's known from a very early age that he wasn't going to have any problem with his parents or for that matter from his grand parents. I'm sure he's experienced difficulties because of his orientation, but I can take solace in knowing that he has always known that he was completely accepted and loved by everyone in his family. His partner who comes from a large Midwestern family has similarly had no acceptance problems.


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## DoItMyself

I really don't know.

I suppose there are a couple cousins who may be, but I don't discuss either my ****** preference or their ****** preference with them.  If I were to find out that they were gay it would make no difference and I really couldn't care less-it's their business.  I wouldn't treat them any differently than I do right now.


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## ndynt

After my middle son passed away, a few years ago, I found out he was gay.  It would not have changed my love for him if I did know previously.  His brothers were aware of it and accepted him as he was.


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## Denise1952

Glinda said:


> How do you feel about him/her?  Have you and the other family members accepted his/her sexuality?  Would you change this person if you could?  I'd like to know your experience because I have a brother who is gay.  I wouldn't change one thing about him.  He's my best friend and I love him.



I don't think I would ever stop loving my brother no matter what he did, or didn't do.  Love is not conditional, or it shouldn't be imo.  If you love someone, it's without expectation, or conditions like, ok I'll love you as long as this or that.


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## Josiah

ndynt said:


> After my middle son passed away, a few years ago, I found out he was gay.  It would not have changed my love for him if I did know previously.  His brothers were aware of it and accepted him as he was.



Please don't feel I am offering any judgement, but weren't you hurt by the fact that your son chose to keep this secret from you. Have you speculated why he wouldn't reveal this important fact to his mother?


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## Ameriscot

As far as I know a cousin.  I have no problems with anyone being gay.


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## Mrs. Robinson

My eldest granddaughter is gay. She is 20. Right now she is kind of a mess though-doing drugs and really struggling. Nobody has a problem with her being gay but she is battling some kind of demons...


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## Shalimar

I have a nephew who is gay. My sister has very strict religious beliefs, I am uncertain if her sect likes anyone, but they believe gay people are possessed. I raised my nephew along with my son and love him just as much. I wouldn't change a thing about him, he is a marvelous human being who works with doctors without borders. My sister? We haven't spoken in fifteen years, apparently I too am possessed and bound for Dante's Inferno. Strange, I am a happy person, and she, emphatically, is not. Hmmm.


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## Pappy

I had a good friend in the service, who several years later, I found out was gay. In the 50's people did not talk about these things, especially in the services. Had I known he was gay, it wouldn't have mattered to me at all.


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## DoItMyself

Josiah said:


> Please don't feel I am offering any judgement, but weren't you hurt by the fact that your son chose to keep this secret from you. Have you speculated why he wouldn't reveal this important fact to his mother?



Why would someone who is gay need to discuss their ****** preference with parents?  Why not simply do like the majority of people and keep what happens in their bedroom between them and their partner?  I can't imagine the parents of a heterosexual person being hurt by their children not discussing their ****** preference, why should someone who is gay and their parents be held to a double standard?  Doesn't that inherently make them "different" if everything they do is done to a different standard?


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## QuickSilver

I am not sure... but I think I do.  I don't think he has yet admitted it to himself though.. so I never broach the topic.


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## Jackie22

I don't think there are any gay family members, but if there were, it would not make any difference with me.

Shalimar, you are to be commended for raising your nephew with love and respect.


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## Vivjen

Not as far as I know.....but some of my best friends are.


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## Ameriscot

DoItMyself said:


> Why would someone who is gay need to discuss their ****** preference with parents?  Why not simply do like the majority of people and keep what happens in their bedroom between them and their partner?  I can't imagine the parents of a heterosexual person being hurt by their children not discussing their ****** preference, why should someone who is gay and their parents be held to a double standard?  Doesn't that inherently make them "different" if everything they do is done to a different standard?



Because *being gay isn't just about sex*.  They fall in love with people of the same sex.  Of course they would want to tell their parents.  They would most likely want their S/O to be a significant part of his/her family life.  What if they got married?  Should they also keep that a secret?


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## Josiah

Ameriscot said:


> Because *being gay isn't just about sex*.  They fall in love with people of the same sex.  Of course they would want to tell their parents.  They would most likely want their S/O to be a significant part of his/her family life.  What if they got married?  Should they also keep that a secret?



Very well put Ameriscot. . .  and to which I might add that the normal course of growing up for a gay boy includes the coming to terms with and admitting to oneself that he is gay. This as you might guess is a big emotional deal since before this admission the gay boy goes though a very uncomfortable period of wondering if he is living a lie about his ****** identity.

 And there's no saying as DoItMyself seems to think that ones ****** identity even for a very young child isn't a very important part of who they are. After coming out to himself a gay boy continues to act toward his friends and parents as if he is a "normal" straight boy. This I've been told is not a comfortable state to live in because it forbids you to be who you are to the important people around you. So whether they (the parents and close family) like it, it constitutes a very important rite of passage for gay boys and men to "come out" to their family. I have been speaking here only about male children, but the situation is quite similar for girls and women although they tend to be more readily accepted and so the whole process is less fraught with angst.


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## Ameriscot

Josiah said:


> Very well put Ameriscot. . .  and to which I might add that the normal course of growing up for a gay boy includes the coming to terms with and admitting to oneself that he is gay. This as you might guess is a big emotional deal since before this admission the gay boy goes though a very uncomfortable period of wondering if he is living a lie about his ****** identity. And there's no saying as DoItMyself seems to think that ones ****** identity even for a very young child isn't a very important part of who they are. After coming out to himself a gay boy continues to act toward his friends and parents as if he is a "normal" straight boy. This I've been told is not a comfortable state to live in because it forbids you to be who you are to the important people around you. So whether they (the parents and close family) like it, it constitutes a very important rite of passage for gay boys and men to "come out" to their family. I have been speaking here only about male children, but the situation is quite similar for girls and women although they tend to be more readily accepted and so the whole process is less fraught with angst.



Exactly.  It's important to be able to talk to parents about the feelings when a child/teen realizes they are gay.


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## SeaBreeze

Glinda said:


> How do you feel about him/her?  Have you and the other family members accepted his/her sexuality?  Would you change this person if you could?  I'd like to know your experience because I have a brother who is gay.  I wouldn't change one thing about him.  He's my best friend and I love him.



Not that I'm aware of, but if I did, it wouldn't make any difference at all to me, I'd love and respect them regardless...certainly would never try to change anyone, why would someone feel compelled to do such a thing?  Over the years I've had a couple of gay friends and they were both wonderful people.


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## AZ Jim

When ever this subject comes up, I think back to the Seinfeld episode dealing with the gay thing.  When the show was punctuated by "not that there's anything wrong with that!"


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## Denise1952

DoItMyself said:


> Why would someone who is gay need to discuss their ****** preference with parents?  Why not simply do like the majority of people and keep what happens in their bedroom between them and their partner?  I can't imagine the parents of a heterosexual person being hurt by their children not discussing their ****** preference, why should someone who is gay and their parents be held to a double standard?  Doesn't that inherently make them "different" if everything they do is done to a different standard?



I agree with this, totally.  I think part of today's problems are some things are not kept to ourselves, or shared with a professional if we feel we have a need to discuss problems in the bedroom, or with our mate (first with our mate).  I guess I think of that saying "nothing is sacred anymore".


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## Ameriscot

nwlady said:


> I agree with this, totally.  I think part of today's problems are some things are not kept to ourselves, or shared with a professional if we feel we have a need to discuss problems in the bedroom, or with our mate (first with our mate).  I guess I think of that saying "nothing is sacred anymore".



So you are saying you should hide who you are from your parents and let them wonder why you never bring home a boyfriend/girlfriend or get married?  Why should you have to hide the fact that you are in love with someone of the same sex?  You wouldn't hide the fact that you are in love with someone of the opposite sex.  

Again, being gay is not just about sex any more than being straight is.

Why would you say 'problems in the bedroom'?  Nobody said it was a problem.


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## QuickSilver

Ameriscot said:


> So you are saying you should hide who you are from your parents and let them wonder why you never bring home a boyfriend/girlfriend or get married?  Why should you have to hide the fact that you are in love with someone of the same sex?  You wouldn't hide the fact that you are in love with someone of the opposite sex.
> 
> Again, being gay is not just about sex any more than being straight is.
> 
> Why would you say 'problems in the bedroom'?  Nobody said it was a problem.



I absolutely agree.. and you've put it very well.  If one of my sons were gay, I would still want to be involved in his life.  That would mean knowing and loving his chosen mate,  being involved with grandchildren, and any and every occasion families celebrate.  I would hate to be denied this.. or to deny my son this because of my bigotry.  It would be such a loss for everyone.


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## AZ Jim

I do not believe anyone should be compelled to be silent about sexuality to make us more comfortable.


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## Denise1952

I stand corrected Ameriscot, I didn't think about that aspect at all, it didn't occur to me.  To be honest, I still think of "gay" as a ****** act.  I'm not going to apologize for the latter because I have not been exposed or around enough gay people in my life (that I know of) to realize that it is now about a couple of people in love.  Yes, you would want your other half to meet the family.  I also don't understand it, the act of having sex with someone of the same sex grosses me out.  But, I have met gay people and liked them, mainly just 2 lesbians I puppy-sat for.  I liked those ladies, but I didn't care to think about what they did in the bedroom.  That was there business.  

So to clarify before people start hammering on me, I don't like cigarette smoke, but I do not dislike smokers because they smoke.  It's the same with anyone that I don't agree with their lifestyle, ****** preference.  I may not agree, but if I dislike anyone, it's because they are a jerk, or a mean person.


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## Ameriscot

QuickSilver said:


> I absolutely agree.. and you've put it very well.  If one of my sons were gay, I would still want to be involved in his life.  That would mean knowing and loving his chosen mate,  being involved with grandchildren, and any and every occasion families celebrate.  I would hate to be denied this.. or to deny my son this because of my bigotry.  It would be such a loss for everyone.



My sister asked me once if I would have a problem if one of my sons was gay.  I said absolutely not.  She didn't believe me.  I said the only reason if would be difficult is I'd worry about him having to deal with all the homophobia.  She then said but you wouldn't have grandchildren.  Huh?  Being gay doesn't mean you can't produce children, you just go about it a different way.  Doh!  Plenty of gay parents.


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## Ameriscot

nwlady said:


> I stand corrected Ameriscot, I didn't think about that aspect at all, it didn't occur to me.  To be honest, I still think of "gay" as a ****** act.  I'm not going to apologize for the latter because I have not been exposed or around enough gay people in my life (that I know of) to realize that it is now about a couple of people in love.  Yes, you would want your other half to meet the family.  I also don't understand it, the act of having sex with someone of the same sex grosses me out.  But, I have met gay people and liked them, mainly just 2 lesbians I puppy-sat for.  I liked those ladies, but I didn't care to think about what they did in the bedroom.  That was there business.
> 
> So to clarify before people start hammering on me, I don't like cigarette smoke, but I do not dislike smokers because they smoke.  It's the same with anyone that I don't agree with their lifestyle, ****** preference.  I may not agree, but if I dislike anyone, it's because they are a jerk, or a mean person.



Denise, do you think all heterosexual relationships are all about sex?


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## rporter610

I am heartened by seeing the tolerance and acceptance expressed by many who posted in response to this question.  I have a gay cousin (older than I) and he had to hide his true self for most of his life because he had a high government post and would have been fired if his situation had become known. Now that things are better for LGBT people, in many states they can live their lives without being harassed or discriminated against.  But the situation is not perfect, and our extension of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness still does not extend to all people.


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## Cookie

Not that it would matter to me either way, but I don't think any of my own family members are gay. 

My late parents were very conservative with traditional values and they assumed everyone was straight. If they thought any of their children were gay they would be devastated or worse.  If I were a young gay person still living at home, I would never have talked about it with them.


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## Denise1952

AZ Jim said:


> I do not believe anyone should be compelled to be silent about sexuality to make us more comfortable.



I think there's a lot to be said for folks that may not mention, lets say, their drinking spree around a recovering alcoholic, because they respect the other persons comfort and struggle not to drink.  Yes, homosexuality has a place to be discussed, but the boy also could have been trying to protect his mother.  People that shoot their face off with no consideration to who might be listening are not just being selfish, they are showing they care nothing about others.

But then it seems in our society people are caring less and less about others.  I'm not saying live your life to please others, but there should be some sort of happy medium, like say what you like, but say it with tact, and consideration of others.  Many here think christianity sucks, but there are things about it that have helped me be a better person.  I don't claim to be a christian now, but I studied it for many years.


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## AprilT

I have stayed out of this one, because, I thought, at some point, it would likely go down hill, but good to see many see human beings as just that, people with different ways of being but still no different really, just not as they've been taught to believe everyone is supposed to live, love and be.

It took growing up and educating myself away from what I was taught to believe to get to this point.  When I don't understand something, I look to learn and understand.


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## Denise1952

tnthomas said:


> My son is gay, I absolutely love and respect him, and categorically reject any notion that there is anything "wrong" with him.
> 
> you can't pray away the gay, being gay is not a 'choice'.   I don't have any contact with his mother, but I know her to be rigid in her views, and the word "tolorence" is not in her vocabulary.   Everyone else in the family accepts him, without reservation.



Thank goodness he has a loving father, I'm not saying his mother doesn't love him in her way, but I was just reading a story last night.  It was about a family that there son was 6, and couldn't speak(supposedly) or walk, lots of issues.  The father was very prideful and basically ignored the boy.  The mother was loving and caring but there seemed to be not help she could find for the boy.  Long story short, she took him to a specialist that worked with autistic children etc.  They discovered he had limitations yes, but that he was also capable of learning some things, plus, he was a genius with music.  His father was made to realize and he picked the boy up and carried him home, which he had not touched him ever and the boy had to ride in a stroller since the mother couldn't carry him.  

Anyway, that just came to mind.  Loving conditionally is not love in my opinion.  Thanks for sharing TN denise


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## QuickSilver

Well I personally don't want to think about what ANYONE I know does in the bedroom..  Unless they look like Brad Pitt and Angie.. it's not apt to be a pretty sight.  I would have to poke out my mind's eye..  :magnify:


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## Denise1952

Josiah said:


> Please don't feel I am offering any judgement, but weren't you hurt by the fact that your son chose to keep this secret from you. Have you speculated why he wouldn't reveal this important fact to his mother?



I'm sure you don't mean this the way I took it Josiah, even though you said you were not offering judgement, I guess I felt like this statement could hurt the OP.  I'm sure many things go through a parents mind when they lose a child, gay or not gay.  A child, and I think I would wonder where I went wrong here or there, or why didn't I do this or that. It is true in our society, at least I have heard from others, the many gay people are very troubled, but then a lot of children, younger folks are troubled for one reason or another.  Sometimes it has nothing at all to do with parents, or the way they were raised.  Just some thoughts.  I don't really like our world much today, so much wrongs, so much pain and confusion


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## Denise1952

QuickSilver said:


> Well I personally don't want to think about what ANYONE I know does in the bedroom..  Unless they look like Brad Pitt and Angie.. it's not apt to be a pretty sight.  I would have to poke out my mind's eye..  :magnify:



I feel the same, except I don't want to watch even them unless I got to be Angie.


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## Denise1952

Ameriscot said:


> Exactly.  It's important to be able to talk to parents about the feelings when a child/teen realizes they are gay.



I think it's safe to say there are a lot of kids that know better then to talk to their parents.  If their parents are the type that would start subjecting them to doctors, faith healers.  I definitely not saying that the boy didn't talk to the OP because of that.  These kids are already struggling with society, they shouldn't have to at home, which if we lived in a perfect world, would be the one, safe place they knew they could always go to be truly loved.


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## Ameriscot

nwlady said:


> I feel the same, except I don't want to watch even them unless I got to be Angie.



Or to be Claire with Jamie in the Outlander series!  :love_heart:


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## Jackie22

If gays are troubled, it is probably due in large part to the fact that the views of some in our society think their lifestyle is wrong and that they are being judged by these people.


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## Ameriscot

nwlady said:


> I think it's safe to say there are a lot of kids that know better then to talk to their parents.  If their parents are the type that would start subjecting them to doctors, faith healers.  I definitely not saying that the boy didn't talk to the OP because of that.  These kids are already struggling with society, they shouldn't have to at home, which if we lived in a perfect world, would be the one, safe place they knew they could always go to be truly loved.



I think most kids will know how their parents will react.  If they already have good communication then it will be easier to be open with them.


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## QuickSilver

Ameriscot said:


> Or to be Claire with Jamie in the Outlander series!  :love_heart:




ooohhhhh...  be still my heart!


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## Ameriscot

Jackie22 said:


> If gays are troubled, it is probably due in large part to the fact that the views of some in our society think their lifestyle is wrong and that they are being judged by these people.



Exactly. Just what I was about to type.


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## Denise1952

oh, he looks a bit like Heath Ledger, so handsome  He was an amazing actor as well.


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## Ameriscot

QuickSilver said:


> ooohhhhh...  be still my heart!



:yes:


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## Denise1952

Jackie22 said:


> If gays are troubled, it is probably due in large part to the fact that the views of some in our society think their lifestyle is wrong and that they are being judged by these people.



There will always be those of different mind-sets and some are more verbal then others.  I think the worse thing any person can do is focus on blaming others and their ideas.  Look at folks that invented things, like the Wright Bros.  I mean there is always going to be those that disagree.  Somehow each of us has to be true to ourselves, do as WE believe.  It is our own attitudes and reactions to others nastiness, or disbelief that can make us troubled, unsure, etc.  Ultimately, I totally believe our own happiness lies within us, not on outside forces.


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## QuickSilver

Ameriscot said:


> I think most kids will know how their parents will react.  If they already have good communication then it will be easier to be open with them.



This is very true.  I knew how my parents would have reacted if I had become pregnant as a teen.  I knew that I could never tell them and would have chosen to run away or something worse.  I imagine this is the same feeling gay teens have knowing how their parents would react.


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## ClassicRockr

Staying completely out of this one also, but must say this.......by now, most members here know how wife and I feel about it. But, years ago, I did work, for a short time, for a lesbian couple and they were nice. There are gay and lesbian celebrities that are really cool.


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## Ameriscot

QuickSilver said:


> This is very true.  I knew how my parents would have reacted if I had become pregnant as a teen.  I knew that I could never tell them and would have chosen to run away or something worse.  I imagine this is the same feeling gay teens have knowing how their parents would react.



I'm pretty sure my parents would have reacted with 'what did I do wrong to make you this way?'.  

I had already graduated high school and was engaged when I had to tell my mother I was pregnant.  She was not happy, but didn't say anything. My grandmother who lived with us said 'Blue Cross won't pay for it!'.  Good ole granny.


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## Denise1952

Ameriscot said:


> I think most kids will know how their parents will react.  If they already have good communication then it will be easier to be open with them.



I agree, kids know their parents, I knew mine because nothing was hidden.  They's send us outside but if they thought we didn't know, they were wrong.


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## Josiah

rporter610 said:


> I am heartened by seeing the tolerance and acceptance expressed by many who posted in response to this question.  I have a gay cousin (older than I) and he had to hide his true self for most of his life because he had a high government post and would have been fired if his situation had become known. Now that things are better for LGBT people, in many states they can live their lives without being harassed or discriminated against.  But the situation is not perfect, and our extension of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness still does not extend to all people.



I agree Rin, I was very pleased with the tolerance expressed, although I was somewhat surprised at how few members had much in the way of first hand experience with a close gay family member.


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## ndynt

Josiah said:


> Please don't feel I am offering any judgement, but weren't you hurt by the fact that your son chose to keep this secret from you. Have you speculated why he wouldn't reveal this important fact to his mother?


Yes, Josiah, it was painful.  I think his life would have been a little easier for him if he had. I feel I failed him in all areas of his life. He dated as a teen ager, so I think he even denied it to himself, initally.  Then he was diagnosed with diabetes and became legally blind. Had to leave college and stopped playing hockey.  Became a recluse basically. Emotionally and physically. Shut everyone out, except for his older brother. And he ony tolerated him.  Died a horrible death alone, not found for three days, at 44.


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## AZ Jim

ClassicRockr said:


> Staying completely out of this one also, but must say this.......by now, most members here know how wife and I feel about it. But, years ago, I did work, for a short time, for a lesbian couple and they were nice. There are gay and lesbian celebrities that are really cool.



CR, you have flat out told us you would not have any non-christian friends, you have no room in your life to tolerate people who are "different" in most anyway including gays.  I cannot accept your philosophy and am eternally grateful most here are not like you.


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## Vivjen

That is so sad....but not your fault.
if that was how he chose to live his life...you can't do everything.


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## AZ Jim

ndynt said:


> Yes, Josiah, it was painful.  I think his life would have been a little easier for him if he had. I feel I failed him in all areas of his life. He dated as a teen ager, so I think he even denied it to himself, initally.  Then he was diagnosed with diabetes and became legally blind. Had to leave college and stopped playing hockey.  Became a recluse basically. Emotionally and physically. Shut everyone out, except for his older brother. And he ony tolerated him.  Died a horrible death alone, not found for three days, at 44.



It was not YOUR failure.  It was for lack of a better way to put it, life.  Reality.  Sets of circumstance that took it's toll.  He is no longer in pain.  I am so sorry for your loss and I understand your wanted to take on guilt but don't.  You are not responsible.


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## Ameriscot

ndynt said:


> Yes, Josiah, it was painful.  I think his life would have been a little easier for him if he had. I feel I failed him in all areas of his life. He dated as a teen ager, so I think he even denied it to himself, initally.  Then he was diagnosed with diabetes and became legally blind. Had to leave college and stopped playing hockey.  Became a recluse basically. Emotionally and physically. Shut everyone out, except for his older brother. And he ony tolerated him.  Died a horrible death alone, not found for three days, at 44.



How very sad, ND.  So sorry to hear this. Agree that it was not your fault.


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## Josiah

ndynt said:


> Yes, Josiah, it was painful.  I think his life would have been a little easier for him if he had. I feel I failed him in all areas of his life. He dated as a teen ager, so I think he even denied it to himself, initally.  Then he was diagnosed with diabetes and became legally blind. Had to leave college and stopped playing hockey.  Became a recluse basically. Emotionally and physically. Shut everyone out, except for his older brother. And he ony tolerated him.  Died a horrible death alone, not found for three days, at 44.



So very sad, I'm so sorry.


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## Shalimar

Ndynt,I agree it is so not your fault, but as a mother I understand your guilt. We want to cherish, comfort and protect our children from the worst of life's agonies. Sadly, often we cannot. Sometimes life just sucks, and the pain is too great for them to bear. I deal with trauma victims fairly regularly, and still struggle to accept the reality of loss--some people cannoT be reached. When people shut down and turn away from others to that extent, the outcome is rarely anything but tragic. But, I repeat, it is not your fault. Hugs.


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## Shalimar

Jackie, thank you for your kind comments, but truly I have been blessed with my two boys. Different as chalk and cheese, they were oddly compatible, and filled my life with joy and laughter. My nephew is one of those warm calm individuals, who seems to have been born with a smile on his face. He heals as much by being who he is, as through any medical skill he may have acquired. He is a marvelous foil for my quicksilver, poetic, verbal, charismatic son. Together,they made, and still make, my life a wonderland, albeit a noisy one!.lol


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## Shalimar

Classicrockr, I get it, you are trying, and I applaud your honesty. It cannot be easy.:love_heart:


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## DoItMyself

Ameriscot said:


> Because *being gay isn't just about sex*.  They fall in love with people of the same sex.  Of course they would want to tell their parents.  They would most likely want their S/O to be a significant part of his/her family life.  What if they got married?  Should they also keep that a secret?



Don't put words in my mouth-I never said they should keep it secret.  I don't believe that because someone is gay they require special handling and special treatment.  They're just a part of normal society and as such someone who is gay should act no different than anyone else or be treated different than anyone else.  Most heterosexuals don't need to tell their parents that they are heterosexual, I don't see why someone who is homosexual should be any different-I'm pretty sure that the first time they brought home a "significant other" everyone would figure it out pretty quickly.  No special talks needed, no confessions, no coming out of the closet.  

I guess I don't see why it's an issue-but then I also don't think that race, religion, political affiliation or any other special interest group should be treated any differently.  Respect everyone equally and don't single out any special interest groups for special treatment.  Treating someone who is gay differently than everyone else automatically brands them with a scarlet letter, which is something that I prefer not to do.


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## DoItMyself

Josiah said:


> And there's no saying as DoItMyself seems to think that ones ****** identity even for a very young child isn't a very important part of who they are. After coming out to himself a gay boy continues to act toward his friends and parents as if he is a "normal" straight boy. This I've been told is not a comfortable state to live in because it forbids you to be who you are to the important people around you. So whether they (the parents and close family) like it, it constitutes a very important rite of passage for gay boys and men to "come out" to their family. I have been speaking here only about male children, but the situation is quite similar for girls and women although they tend to be more readily accepted and so the whole process is less fraught with angst.



I prefer to treat and view everyone equally and with respect.


----------



## Vivjen

DoItMyself said:


> I prefer to treat and view everyone equally and with respect.


Unfortunately; many people don't; even though society has improved over the last 50 years.

there is still a lot f prejudice; from bullying in schools; chanting at football; and unprovoked attacks on the streets.....hence the hiding..


----------



## Ameriscot

DoItMyself said:


> Don't put words in my mouth-I never said they should keep it secret.  I don't believe that *because someone is gay they require special handling and special treatment. * They're just a part of normal society and as such someone who is gay should act no different than anyone else or be treated different than anyone else.  Most heterosexuals don't need to tell their parents that they are heterosexual, I don't see why someone who is homosexual should be any different-I'm pretty sure that the first time they brought home a "significant other" everyone would figure it out pretty quickly.  No special talks needed, no confessions, no coming out of the closet.
> 
> I guess I don't see why it's an issue-but then I also don't think that race, religion, political affiliation or any other special interest group should be treated any differently.  Respect everyone equally and don't single out any special interest groups for special treatment.  Treating someone who is gay differently than everyone else automatically brands them with a scarlet letter, which is something that I prefer not to do.



Unfortunately they are still treated differently, and not in a good way.

Explain the difference between not telling and keeping it secret.


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## Shalimar

Nwlady, I wish I believed it was that cut and dried. I believe in self-determination as much as anyone, buy acknowledge that some emotional hurdles are simply too huge to cross. Otherwise, there would be no trauma survivors and PTSD and other similar conditions. All physical ills are not preventable or curable, why would it be any different for mental or emotional ones?


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## ndynt

[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]*Tha[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]nk y[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]ou all for your very kind words and support.  I truly needed [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]them[/FONT], at this time. It [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]prompted[/FONT] me to shed a few needed tears. Have had a harrowing week. My youngest son almost died, with the sam[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]e complication that my middle son did, last Thursday.  Was in ICU several days.  [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]Some kidney damage[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif], but, is doing well now. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]*[/FONT]


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## Shalimar

Ndynt, thank you for sharing this. We will hold you in our hearts. You are not alone.:love_heart:


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## SeaBreeze

ndynt said:


> *Thank you all for your very kind words and support.  I truly needed them, at this time. It prompted me to shed a few needed tears. Have had a harrowing week. My youngest son almost died, with the same complication that my middle son did, last Thursday.  Was in ICU several days.  Some kidney damage, but, is doing well now. *



You and your son are in my thoughts, I hope he continues to do well Ndynt...hugs.


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## AZ Jim

Do your best to keep your chin up ND.  We know it's not easy.


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## Glinda

Shalimar said:


> I have a nephew who is gay. My sister has very strict religious beliefs, I am uncertain if her sect likes anyone, but they believe gay people are possessed. I raised my nephew along with my son and love him just as much. I wouldn't change a thing about him, he is a marvelous human being who works with doctors without borders. My sister? We haven't spoken in fifteen years, apparently I too am possessed and bound for Dante's Inferno. Strange, I am a happy person, and she, emphatically, is not. Hmmm.



Shalimar, what a kind and loving thing you did for your nephew!  If there is a heaven, you're going there.  Not so sure about your sister.


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## Shalimar

Glinda thank you for your sweet words. You know what they say. Heaven for the accommodations, Hell for the company! Lol.


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## Glinda

ndynt said:


> Yes, Josiah, it was painful.  I think his life would have been a little easier for him if he had. I feel I failed him in all areas of his life. He dated as a teen ager, so I think he even denied it to himself, initally.  Then he was diagnosed with diabetes and became legally blind. Had to leave college and stopped playing hockey.  Became a recluse basically. Emotionally and physically. Shut everyone out, except for his older brother. And he ony tolerated him.  Died a horrible death alone, not found for three days, at 44.



Oh, ND, I'm so sorry.  This has been a very tough row to hoe for you, I'm sure.  You have my deepest sympathy.


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## Cookie

ndynt - I was so sorry to learn of your loss and it must have been incredibly hard to go through  such a difficult time with your son's condition and I'm glad he's come  through it and recovering -- take care of yourself too.


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## tnthomas

Ndynt, 

 I can not imagine the pain, my sincerest condolences. 

-Tim


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## Butterfly

I have an old and dear friend who is gay.  He didn't come right out and announce he is gay, but then I didn't come right out and announce I'm straight, either.  I think we make far too much of this -- people are just who they are and should be accepted as such.  What difference should any of this make -- a friend is a friend, and a family member is a family member.


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## AprilT

It becomes an issue for some people when they ask the question, so did you bring your wife or some such question in a casual conversation and you answer, no I brought my husband and the person you are chatting with is homophobic or similar.  So whether ones wants it to be an issue or not, in our society it is a huge issue, especially when some people because of the way the aren't afforded the same rights and quality of life as everyone else.  It shouldn't be this way, but it is, so, this is why questions such as this come up on message boards all the time.  Their being who they are isn't an issue to me or you, but, for many it is.


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## Kadee

My stepsister who was 10 years younger than me, and is deceased due to abuses she put her body through was involved with another woman at one stage, it was quite some time ago as she passed away 9 years ago.
i didn't really ask questions at the time as she lived interstate  it was obvious it a gay relationship because Vicky stated she was " Married" to the lady she was with who I never met or even spoke to, I can't really comment how I would have felt about the relationship if I had met her partner ,I have never judged people for their life choices as long as they didn't affect me.
i have met a couple of men who are gay,and one who liked both sexes and was married to my neighbours in Adelaide daughter 
that relationship I found a little hard to understand.


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## Shalimar

I have a female friend who is bisexual. She has been married twice. Her first spouse wasa man who died  in 2000. Three years later, she met a wonderful woman whom she married in 2007. She states that, for her, gender is irrelevant, it is the person that she falls in love with. Works for me, especially since her wife has a personality very similar to my friend's first spouse.


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## Ameriscot

Shalimar said:


> I have a female friend who is bisexual. She has been married twice. Her first spouse wasa man who died  in 2000. Three years later, she met a wonderful woman whom she married in 2007. She states that, for her, gender is irrelevant, it is the person that she falls in love with. Works for me, especially since her wife has a personality very similar to my friend's first spouse.



There are a lot of people who are bisexual. Some people say they are just greedy, but I think they must be very loving people.


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## QuickSilver

I have heard that there really is no such think as a Bisexual... Many Gays believe a Bisexual is just someone who hasn't accepted the fact that they are Gay.  I personally don't know if there is.  I have a family member who has experienced both male and female relationships and ****** encounters and claims to be attracted to both, and claims he is not gay..  He certainly doesn't look or act gay... in the way we are conditioned to think of how gays should look and act..  So I really don't know.


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## Ameriscot

QuickSilver said:


> I have heard that there really is no such think as a Bisexual... Many Gays believe a Bisexual is just someone who hasn't accepted the fact that they are Gay.  I personally don't know if there is.  I have a family member who has experienced both male and female relationships and ****** encounters and claims to be attracted to both.



My O/H doesn't believe it either.  There are many people who've had long relationships with someone of both sexes.  Don't quite understand it although I read some study before that said few people are 100% straight or 100% gay and most of us are somewhat bisexual even though most don't act on it.


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## QuickSilver

Ameriscot said:


> My O/H doesn't believe it either.  There are many people who've had long relationships with someone of both sexes.  Don't quite understand it although I read some study before that said few people are 100% straight or 100% gay and most of us are somewhat bisexual even though most don't act on it.



I believe this..  I think women are more likely to admit that they find another woman attractive or sexy than a man would admit that about another man. But women have always been allowed more physical contact with the same sex.   I read a theory in a psych class that the reason for this is because a female has one more step to make in her sexuality than men do.   Both sexes start off with their primary love interest a female.. ie.  Mommy.   Males simply have to transfer that to another female.  Females have to transfer that to a male.. which is a bigger psychological leap.  It may be easier for women who have had a good relationship with their father, but a bit more difficult for those who haven't.    It's interesting.


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## Ameriscot

QuickSilver said:


> I believe this..  I think women are more likely to admit that they find another woman attractive or sexy than a man would admit that about another man. But women have always been allowed more physical contact with the same sex.   I read a theory in a psych class that the reason for this is because a female has one more step to make in her sexuality than men do.   Both sexes start off with their primary love interest a female.. ie.  Mommy.   Males simply have to transfer that to another female.  Females have to transfer that to a male.. which is a bigger psychological leap.  It may be easier for women who have had a good relationship with their father, but a bit more difficult for those who haven't.    It's interesting.



That makes sense.  Women are allowed to show affection to other women.  Men are afraid people will think they are gay if they show affection to a man - hence the slap on the back when hugging another man - a man hug.


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## QuickSilver

I agree.  Women have a lot more latitude in that respect. Women can hold each other and comfort one another,   Women can more easily dress in male clothing.. ie slacks.. a fitted shirt.. even a tie and coat..  Women are allowed to dance.. Ever go to a wedding and see all the ladies dancing?   Girls are always seen holding hands and walking along.  In fact, my Grandma and her sister always held hands when they went out shopping especially in the crowded streets of Chicago...so they wouldn't get separated in the mob.   These are things men just cannot pull off.. especially in Western Society..  Although men in some countries.. like Italy for example are more demonstrative toward on another.


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## Mrs. Robinson

Shalimar said:


> I have a female friend who is bisexual. She has been married twice. Her first spouse wasa man who died  in 2000. Three years later, she met a wonderful woman whom she married in 2007. She states that, for her, gender is irrelevant, it is the person that she falls in love with. Works for me, especially since her wife has a personality very similar to my friend's first spouse.



Now someone who falls in love without regard to gender is considered to be "pansexual". That`s a new one for you,huh?


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## QuickSilver

I have heard that term.... but I always thought it was without regard for species as well as gender..


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## Mrs. Robinson

QuickSilver said:


> I have heard that term.... but I always thought it was without regard for species as well as gender..



Well now,with "pan" you could be right. My friend from high school has a daughter who identifies herself as pansexual. She is currently in a relationship with a woman but says gender has nothing to do with her choice of partner-that if this partner were male she would love him just the same.


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## Ameriscot

pansexuality
One who can love sexually in many forms. Like bisexuality, but even more fluid, a pansexual person can love not only the traditional male and female genders, but also transgendered, androgynous, and gender fluid people.


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## Ameriscot

QuickSilver said:


> I agree.  Women have a lot more latitude in that respect. Women can hold each other and comfort one another,   Women can more easily dress in male clothing.. ie slacks.. a fitted shirt.. even a tie and coat..  Women are allowed to dance.. Ever go to a wedding and see all the ladies dancing?   Girls are always seen holding hands and walking along.  In fact, my Grandma and her sister always held hands when they went out shopping especially in the crowded streets of Chicago...so they wouldn't get separated in the mob.   These are things men just cannot pull off.. especially in Western Society..  Although men in some countries.. like Italy for example are more demonstrative toward on another.



All very true!  One of the reasons I'm glad I was born a girl.


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## Mrs. Robinson

I did look it up and pansexual does NOT include beastiality. Phew!


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## Ameriscot

Mrs. Robinson said:


> I did look it up and pansexual does NOT include beastiality. Phew!



So the sheep here are safe from pansexuals!  Whew!


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## Ralphy1

Baaaa!


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## Pappy

Be very, very careful. It could be ewe.


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## Ameriscot

Around here there's a joke that the lambs say 'daaaad' when certain men pass by.


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## Shalimar

Ameriscot, I was looking up Scottish jokes on the net, and came across a picture of a sheep wearing a wig, garter belt, black lace stockings, and high heels. Caption, Scottish hooker. Too funny! Hahahahahaha!


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## Ameriscot

Shalimar said:


> Ameriscot, I was looking up Scottish jokes on the net, and came across a picture of a sheep wearing a wig, garter belt, black lace stockings, and high heels. Caption, Scottish hooker. Too funny! Hahahahahaha!



Haha!  I saw a greeting card that had a lot of sheep on the cover and it said 'which one of these sheep do you find the most attractive?'. On the inside it said 'so, you find sheep attractive?'

If you call Scots sheep shag*ers, the comeback is always, no, that's the Welsh.


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## oakapple

I thought this was reserved for the Wesh only? the sheep thing.
I don't know any gay people at all, either in my family or friends, but it would not matter too much to me if there were, we only want our children and grandchildren to be happy after all.


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## tnthomas

Ameriscot said:


> That makes sense.  Women are allowed to show affection to other women.  Men are afraid people will think they are gay if they show affection to a man - hence the slap on the back when hugging another man - a man hug.



I think that there's a "Seinfeld" episode where George Costanza struggles with...whatever it is that he struggles with:


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## Ameriscot

George did always struggle with something...


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## Shalimar

I know I certainly struggled whenever I watched him. HaHaHa.


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## AprilT

Shalimar said:


> I know I certainly struggled whenever I watched him. HaHaHa.



Ain't that the truth.  LOL.


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## Butterfly

Here in NM there is a town about which people say:

_____________, where the men are men and the sheep are scarad to death.


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## Ameriscot

I've heard a variation about Wales. Where men are men and the sheep are nervous.


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## merlin

I don't have anyone gay in my family, at least not to my knowledge, but I have several gay friends, and with my low level of hormones these days, struggle to differentiate between men and women, let alone ****** persuasion; everyone is simply a person to me, though I doubt that is entirely true


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## drifter

Not that I know of.


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## charlotta

Glinda, I also have family who is gay.  I have found that most gay people are really kind and caring.  I am so glad you love your brother the way he is and would not change him.  You are a good sister.  They are unable to change and I hope all can feel good about who they are.


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## Glinda

charlotta said:


> Glinda, I also have family who is gay.  I have found that most gay people are really kind and caring.  I am so glad you love your brother the way he is and would not change him.  You are a good sister.  They are unable to change and I hope all can feel good about who they are.



Charlotte, thanks for responding to my thread and for your kind words.  He is a good brother too.  Perhaps you'll agree that having a gay family member is a privilege because it gives you special insight into what life is like for gays.


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## mitchezz

Ameriscot said:


> I've heard a variation about Wales. Where men are men and the sheep are nervous.



That's what we Australians say about the NZers.


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## mitchezz

AFAIK I don't have a gay family member. However, a very close friend has a son who is gay. It never really gets discussed.......he brings his partner of the moment to dinners and gatherings. He never really had a big Coming Out moment.......I think everyone just assumed he was from his teens on.


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## GeorgiaXplant

mitchezz said:


> That's what we Australians say about the NZers.


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## mitchezz

GeorgiaXplant said:


>



Oops!..........r u a Kiwi Georgia???:redface-new:


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## Scott

Oh.. My sister.. over 30 years ago.. She was so hot looking and I found out she was ..Gay.. I was an "A" hole. I called her a F'n queer ..did not talk to her for a long time..  I was in La Crosse several years ago with my 2 brothers and.. Carol...her husband... All is forgiven but I can never take back what I said :-(   I am sooooo sorry..


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## Georgia Lady

I have a first cousin who keeps his homosexuality quiet.  He is not very open and states that he does not want to make anyone uncomfortable.  He says that he lives a very happy life.


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## WhatInThe

Have extended family that is gay and for what ever reason after a couple of decades of everyone knowing or realizing what was going on it is causing more problems now than 10-20 years ago. One of the parents always has and does try to disguise the relationship. I was interrupted from introducing the partner at a social event when the parent jumped in saying this a friend of the family. The parent and gay adult child are fighting like teenagers and parents to the point of not speaking.  And the parent still tries to disguise or misrepresent the adult child's relationship. The funny thing is they seem to like the partner or at least act the part but they refuse to admit outside of family what is going on. Not a topic of discussion.  Nor that you need or had a big political, moral or religious discussion/announcement but the partner is still talked about as a "good" friend or friend of the family. You would think by the time everyone had gray hair no one would want to argue but decades of suppressed feelings, grudges what ever have boiled to the surface now when socially acceptable is in.

I think when all their friends are talking about their kids and grandkids and they aren't my guess is that was a zinger used during a routine argument because "grand children" or lack there of has been slipped in many times at family social gatherings especially.


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## Josiah

WhatInThe said:


> Have extended family that is gay and for what ever reason after a couple of decades of everyone knowing or realizing what was going on it is causing more problems now than 10-20 years ago. One of the parents always has and does try to disguise the relationship. I was interrupted from introducing the partner at a social event when the parent jumped in saying this a friend of the family. The parent and gay adult child are fighting like teenagers and parents to the point of not speaking.  And the parent still tries to disguise or misrepresent the adult child's relationship. The funny thing is they seem to like the partner or at least act the part but they refuse to admit outside of family what is going on. Not a topic of discussion.  Nor that you need or had a big political, moral or religious discussion/announcement but the partner is still talked about as a "good" friend or friend of the family. You would think by the time everyone had gray hair no one would want to argue but decades of suppressed feelings, grudges what ever have boiled to the surface now when socially acceptable is in.
> 
> I think when all their friends are talking about their kids and grandkids and they aren't my guess is that was a zinger used during a routine argument because "grand children" or lack there of has been slipped in many times at family social gatherings especially.



Interesting, usually time heals all wounds.


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## WhatInThe

Josiah said:


> Interesting, usually time heals all wounds.



If the parent didn't go out of their way to talk about the partner as a roommate or friend I'd say it was something else but I do know for at least a decade the parents were not thrilled. The partner always got treated with respect but I think years of denial finally exploded in a that's how you really feel argument or two.

The parents were always religious and a bit uppity at times. They weren't rich but definitely financially comfortable. The one parent is quite judgemental at times. They are all about appearances. The one parent I think has never stepped foot in a Walmart and won't touch generics. Same for a Micky Ds. They always dressed to the hilt even at family gatherings. I'm pretty sure it took years/decades for them to get rid of any perceived stigma of having a gay child. Ironically they dated straight until 30ish so I think it has something to do with finding this out later in life as well.

Some people want to pry and find out why in a gossipy way I'm like it's their beef and their's to deal with.


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## yank

I know one nephew is gay and pretty sure a different nephew is also. that is their choice in life and none of my business. my life is my business and they can stay out of it.


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## RadishRose

No.


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## Robusta

Yep,  Several scattered through out my close and extended family, of both flavors.  They's just folks, just like us regular ones.


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## BlondieBoomer

Extended family, yes. It's not a big deal. Family isn't determined by ****** preference. Their spouse is family just like everyone else's.


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## Wilberforce

There seems to be two threads about this same topic,one newer than this one. I did answer briefly on the other one which asked is we had any friends or family that are gay.I answered but with no info.

This one is specific to family  and my answer is yes. My oldest son is gay.


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## Shalimar

My nephew is gay, and married to a beautiful transitional partner. We love them to bits.


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## Sassycakes

I have a niece who is gay and I love her very much. My Husband also has a niece that is gay on his side of the family and we see her a lot and love her very much . I have no problem accepting anyone gay.


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## Butterfly

I don't see where it makes any difference to anything.  Family and friends are family and friends.  What difference does it make what they do in the bedroom, or to whom?


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## aeron

No.


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## GeorgiaXplant

How do you know that? There are plenty of gay/lesbian/trans people who don't broadcast their preferences. And a lot of gas/lesbian/trans people in "traditional" marriages whose spouses are aware of it.


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## Marie5656

*My niece is gay.  She was in a committed relationship once with someone who was obviously using her for her family money.  So, disapproval came not because they were both women, but because we felt she was being taken advantage of.  She finally saw the light and booted the girl.*


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## Wilberforce

You know it is a bit like color or religion, I just have never been able to  figure out why the heck it  makes any difference to anything anymore than blue or brown eyes or light or dark heir. Why should it?


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## Robinp

I agree.  I have a gay son and just love him so much.  He is a wonderful man and I would not change him in any way.  If you are in my life and cannot respect and tolerate him, then we cannot be in each other's life.


----------



## aeron

If we found we had a homosexual family member we would rapidly loose a family member.


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## Shalimar

aeron said:


> If we found we had a homosexual family member we would rapidly loose a family member.


But why?


----------



## Pappy

Not that I'm aware of, but I'm sure somewhere along the line, someone is, or has been.


----------



## aeron

Shalimar said:


> But why?


Maybe because I'm a bigot where homosexuality is concerned or maybe it's because I believe that because a thing has become socially acceptable does not mean it is right.

But for whatever reason it's a thing that goes to the bone.

I really don't want to go any further down this track because for me to do so would probably cause pain to those who have different opinions.


----------



## Wilberforce

aeron, while I appreciate your honesty  I have to say I am sad for you .I find any kind  intolerance or bigotry usually makes the person having it uneasy and not having peace in your life is sad. My son is a very forgiving kind man , loves children, pets and the elderly, everything that most folks feel is the right way to be. He has never been involved with the law, never caused any trouble and is very much liked by everyone who meets him. With all the virtues he has why on earth would he be condemned for something he was born with. I respect you and if you were right I would agree with you..sincerely Jeannine


----------



## Shalimar

aeron said:


> Maybe because I'm a bigot where homosexuality is concerned or maybe it's because I believe that because a thing has become socially acceptable does not mean it is right.
> 
> But for whatever reason it's a thing that goes to the bone.
> 
> I really don't want to go any further down this track because for me to do so would probably cause pain to those who have different opinions.


Thank you for your candour.


----------



## Bobbi

*Homosexuality is not a choice*



Glinda said:


> How do you feel about him/her?  Have you and the other family members accepted his/her sexuality?  Would you change this person if you could?  I'd like to know your experience because I have a brother who is gay.  I wouldn't change one thing about him.  He's my best friend and I love him.



My son is gay.  He is 53 years ago and told me when he was 18.  The doctor I worked for explained how chromosomes, hormones, etc effect our sex when we are born.  He is a Christian and understands why so many Christians adopt the "love the sinner but hate the sin" concept.  He believes that the bible speaks of medical problems and this is medical and, in most cases, people are born this way!  He is a wonderful person and when he told me he could not control how he felt, I believed him


----------



## OneEyedDiva

Yes I do....a cousin. He estranged himself from the family and I wish he hadn't done that. He was a sweet person but he started drugging and though he maintained a good job for awhile, he was at times irresponsible. Last I heard he had moved to N.Y.C.  I love him and miss him.


----------



## DaveA

Yes, we have a grandson who is gay.  He has 4 brothers and a sister who are not, and  it's never been an issue with them, his parents, or our whole extended family which include a bunch of his cousins.  It is what it is and I sympathize with folks like him as there are still so many, either religious fanatics or people still living in the "dark ages", that think that somehow this is a condition of choice.  That religious education or some form of re-hab will wash it away?

 Many people in my generation (born in the early 30's) are totally intolerant, but they are also, sadly, intolerant of many things, including ethnicity, race, etc.  It was a different time and some people, instead of broadening their views, are still stuck in it.


----------

