# Reluctant to get vaccinated?  why?



## Don M. (Mar 9, 2021)

Now that the supply of these Covid vaccines are starting to become more readily available, some parts of our area are actually seeing "empty" appointments, and opportunities for people to just "show up" to get a shot.  However, There are several reports about substantial numbers of people who are Not intending to get vaccinated.  

I can understand refusing to get a vaccine if a person has an existing health issue that might be aggravated by one of these shots....but, if a person is generally in good health, Why would they Not want to get some protection from this pandemic???


----------



## Gaer (Mar 9, 2021)

I'm in EXCELLENT HEALTH and an hour after I got the first vaccine, I had horrendous adverse effects, including passing out.
This really surprised me because right after the shot, I felt GREAT!
The national CVC headquarter's nurse told me, "under no circumstances am I to get the second shot".

Many are reluctant to put unnatural chemicals in their body and are opting to wait it out, hoping the virus will end soon.
Personal call, I guess.  I sure don't want to keep anyone from getting vaccinated because  most people have no adverse side effects.


----------



## Rosemarie (Mar 9, 2021)

I think  even more concerning is that those who have had the vaccine, seem to think they are now immune and don't need to take any precautions. I've had it but I'm still wearing a mask and using hand sanitizer.


----------



## MarciKS (Mar 9, 2021)

Maybe they will be able to tweak these vaccines once they know more about them & perhaps make them safer. Let's hope. It would be nice to know if we have protection & for how long.


----------



## terry123 (Mar 10, 2021)

My sister did well after the first shot. After the second she ran a low grade fever for a day and had stomach problems.  After that day she was great.  She has a lot of underlying conditions and she is so glad she was able to get the shots.  Her doctor said the fever and stomach problems were nothing to be concerned about as they just happened one day and with all her other problems he was not surprised.  He said it affected people different ways.

I am signed up for the mobile unit that will come out and give you the shot in your home.  Just like the flu vaccine, I will be glad to get it.
After the vaccine I will continue with the hand washing and mask wearing at home and when out.


----------



## MrPants (Mar 11, 2021)

Looks like several countries have temporarily suspended the use of AstraZeneca while they look into claims if blood clotting issues in patients who have had the 2 doses of this vaccine. This after there has been universal disagreement as to whether AstraZeneca is as effective in senior as most other vaccines. 
Seems to be more controversy over this one than the others? Should be noted that the blood clot issues has not yet been officially linked to AstraZeneca. There's no data yet to prove a link. These suspensions are all just cautionary at this point.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7690075/astrazeneca-vaccine-denmark-blood-clot/


----------



## garyt1957 (Mar 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> I can understand refusing to get a vaccine if a person has an existing health issue that might be aggravated by one of these shots....but, if a person is generally in good health, Why would they Not want to get some protection from this pandemic???


Quite a few people in good health have died after getting the various vaccines. It's still a small minority but it happens. That's enough to give people pause.  I was just talking to the optometrist who did my eye exam. His father died 10 days after getting his second shot. He says he was healthy before that. He says he's not getting the vaccine. Hard to blame him. I'm going to get my first shot tomorrow, but I'm hesitant, not going to lie. These vaccines haven't been tested like they should and we're all basically guinea pigs.


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2021)

The problem is trust. How can you trust a pharmaceutical company that's killed almost as many Americans from opioid overdoses as have died from COVID and who also made sure they can't be sued for future damages from the vaccine, or the FDA that approved the over-prescribing of opioids and also refuses to ban dangerous food additives year after year, or a government that's listening to lobbyists while it says it's listening to the science?


----------



## Irwin (Mar 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> The problem is trust. How can you trust a pharmaceutical company that's killed almost as many Americans from opioid overdoses as have died from COVID and who also made sure they can't be sued for future damages from the vaccine, or the FDA that approved the over-prescribing of opioids and also refuses to ban dangerous food additives year after year, or a government that's listening to lobbyists while it says it's listening to the science?


Yep, it's all about profits.


----------



## win231 (Mar 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Now that the supply of these Covid vaccines are starting to become more readily available, some parts of our area are actually seeing "empty" appointments, and opportunities for people to just "show up" to get a shot.  However, There are several reports about substantial numbers of people who are Not intending to get vaccinated.
> 
> I can understand refusing to get a vaccine if a person has an existing health issue that might be aggravated by one of these shots....but, if a person is generally in good health, Why would they Not want to get some protection from this pandemic???


Because they want to stay in good health.


----------



## Don M. (Mar 11, 2021)

I'm not a "fan" of prescription drugs, and most of these "annual" vaccinations....flu, pneumonia, shingles, etc.  Most of that Crap is more about making the drug companies rich, IMO.  However, in the case of this CoronaVirus, I made an exception and got my 2nd Moderna shot yesterday, and, like the first shot, all I'm feeling today is a very minor "itch" on my arm.  

The primary reason why I'm taking this vaccine seriously is because of the extreme effect it's having on our economy and the huge number of people who have lost their jobs, etc.  I feel it's my responsibility to do whatever I can to help return everything back to normal, and a bit of minor pain for a day or two is a small sacrifice if it helps end this mess.


----------



## win231 (Mar 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> I'm not a "fan" of prescription drugs, and most of these "annual" vaccinations....flu, pneumonia, shingles, etc.  Most of that Crap is more about making the drug companies rich, IMO.  However, in the case of this CoronaVirus, I made an exception and got my 2nd Moderna shot yesterday, and, like the first shot, all I'm feeling today is a very minor "itch" on my arm.
> 
> The primary reason why I'm taking this vaccine seriously is because of the extreme effect it's having on our economy and the huge number of people who have lost their jobs, etc.  I feel it's my responsibility to do whatever I can to help return everything back to normal, and a bit of minor pain for a day or two is a small sacrifice if it helps end this mess.


Do you find it rather interesting that your concern is for the economy & job loss, but not for your health?
And, it's also interesting that people who choose the vaccine try to convince others to make the same choice, but people who choose not to get the vaccine don't try to convince others to make the same choice.
My nephew is a perfect example.  After we've discussed it several times, he offered to make an appointment for me at CVS to get the vaccine when he knows I'm not interested in it.  He thinks it's his way of _"Caring,_" but it's really his way of _"Controlling._"  And he's seeking confidence in his decision from others making the same decision.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Mar 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> The problem is trust. How can you trust a pharmaceutical company that's killed almost as many Americans from opioid overdoses as have died from COVID and who also made sure they can't be sued for future damages from the vaccine, or the FDA that approved the over-prescribing of opioids and also refuses to ban dangerous food additives year after year, or a government that's listening to lobbyists while it says it's listening to the science?



Some pharma companies make opioid-based products and some don't.  Moderna doesn't, but J&J does.  Pfizer makes a little known opioid called Emba which is only a tiny part of its sales.


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> I'm not a "fan" of prescription drugs, and most of these "annual" vaccinations....flu, pneumonia, shingles, etc.  Most of that Crap is more about making the drug companies rich, IMO.  However, in the case of this CoronaVirus, I made an exception and got my 2nd Moderna shot yesterday, and, like the first shot, all I'm feeling today is a very minor "itch" on my arm.
> 
> The primary reason why I'm taking this vaccine seriously is because of the extreme effect it's having on our economy and the huge number of people who have lost their jobs, etc.  I feel it's my responsibility to do whatever I can to help return everything back to normal, and a bit of minor pain for a day or two is a small sacrifice if it helps end this mess.


Same here. I don't get annual flu shots, and my physician is ok with that. In fact, she told me that most of them aren't very effective for seniors.

The only reason I went for both covid vaccines is because my grandkids return to school soon and they spend almost every weekend here with gramps, as does my former foster son who started preschool a couple months ago. If not for that, I wouldn't have gotten vaccinated.


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Some pharma companies make opioid-based products and some don't.  Moderna doesn't, but J&J does.  Pfizer makes a little known opioid called Emba which is only a tiny part of its sales.


You're correct about Moderna, and that's the vaccine I said yes to.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 11, 2021)

win231 said:


> Do you find it rather interesting that your concern is for the economy & job loss, but not for your health?
> And, it's also interesting that people who choose the vaccine try to convince others to make the same choice, but people who choose not to get the vaccine don't try to convince others to make the same choice.


That’s untrue I have never tried to get anyone to take the vaccine, especially you .


----------



## JimBob1952 (Mar 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> You're correct about Moderna, and that's the vaccine I said yes to.




Great, glad you got the shots.  The whole opioid thing is such a mess and there is so much blame to go around, including lots of individual doctors unfortunately.


----------



## Don M. (Mar 11, 2021)

win231 said:


> Do you find it rather interesting that your concern is for the economy & job loss, but not for your health?
> And, it's also interesting that people who choose the vaccine try to convince others to make the same choice, but people who choose not to get the vaccine don't try to convince others to make the same choice.



My "health" is an ongoing concern, and I try to take good care of it.  However, in the case of this virus, the Far Bigger Picture is the steps every individual should try to take to insure the health of those around them.  Since this disease appears to be so easily spread, it would seem that "responsible" people would be trying to do their small part to bring it under control....IMO.  Those who chose not to do so are part of the problem.


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Great, glad you got the shots.  The whole opioid thing is such a mess and there is so much blame to go around, including lots of individual doctors unfortunately.


Pfizer was fined $2.5 million for fraudulent marketing practices (regarding opioids in particular). When their vaccine brought their stocks up, they more than recovered the $2.5 mil.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 11, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Great, glad you got the shots.  The whole opioid thing is such a mess and there is so much blame to go around, including lots of individual doctors unfortunately.


There is also personnel responsibility which seems to fall by the way side.  Blame the doctors, blame the companies, but for the love of God, don’t blame yourself.

I used to be given tons of pain pills which I ended up throwing away.  I would be rich if I’d sold them .  Now I am specific as to which pill I want, how many, and what strength.

I am very careful with pain meds.  There are times I have to take what I consider too many too often and months when I don’t take any.  But it is my responsibility to ensure I don’t get “hooked”, and mine alone.  IMO.


----------



## Don M. (Mar 11, 2021)

The only reason I went for both covid vaccines is because my grandkids return to school soon and they spend almost every weekend here with gramps, as does my former foster son who started preschool a couple months ago. If not for that, I wouldn't have gotten vaccinated.

That's also a major 'incentive" for us, too.  We have a real nice family, and until this virus hit, we gathered frequently.  Over the past year, those visits have been substantially reduced.  We often had some of the great grandkids here for a weekend, until this past year....and we are looking forward to resuming that Joy.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> The only reason I went for both covid vaccines is because my grandkids return to school soon and they spend almost every weekend here with gramps, as does my former foster son who started preschool a couple months ago. If not for that, I wouldn't have gotten vaccinated.
> 
> That's also a major 'incentive" for us, too.  We have a real nice family, and until this virus hit, we gathered frequently.  Over the past year, those visits have been substantially reduced.  We often had some of the great grandkids here for a weekend, until this past year....and we a looking forward to resuming that Joy.


I so agree.

If people won’t take the vaccine for themselves, they should take it for others, but no pressure cause they are not in my bubble.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Mar 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Now that the supply of these Covid vaccines are starting to become more readily available, some parts of our area are actually seeing "empty" appointments, and opportunities for people to just "show up" to get a shot.  However, There are several reports about substantial numbers of people who are Not intending to get vaccinated.
> 
> I can understand refusing to get a vaccine if a person has an existing health issue that might be aggravated by one of these shots....but, if a person is generally in good health, *Why would they Not want to get some protection from this pandemic*???


Speaking for myself and my hubby, we're healthy with no underlying health woes or issues.

But more importantly (and most important of all), it's our way to say _ride-it _to the likes of the HC, CFIA, HC, the legislation that prevents those who choose to receive a vaccination to sue if health complications arise, and everyone else in-between.


----------



## MarciKS (Mar 11, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Speaking for myself and my hubby, we're healthy with no underlying health woes or issues.
> 
> But more importantly (and most important of all), it's our way to say _ride-it _to the likes of the HC, CFIA, HC, the legislation that prevents those who choose to receive a vaccination to sue if health complications arise, and everyone else in-between.


You'd rather risk getting COVID & possibly spreading it/killing someone else with it because you can't sue if the vaccine hurts you?


----------



## Aunt Marg (Mar 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Pfizer was fined $2.5 million for fraudulent marketing practices (regarding opioids in particular). When their vaccine brought their stocks up, they more than recovered the $2.5 mil.


Shame on the $2.5 M fine!

Pfizer's total assets: US$178.983 billion (2020)

Pfizer should have been shut down!


----------



## Aunt Marg (Mar 11, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> You'd rather risk getting COVID & possibly spreading it/killing someone else with it because you can't sue if the vaccine hurts you?


How others chose to construe the decisions that my husband and I make is strictly up to them and doesn't interest us.


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Shame on the $2.5 M fine!
> 
> Pfizer's total assets: US$178.983 billion (2020)
> 
> Pfizer should have been shut down!


And yet the FDA gave them full support in the race to a vaccine.


----------



## MarciKS (Mar 11, 2021)

It might if it leads to the death of someone close to you.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Mar 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> And yet the FDA gave them full support in the race to a vaccine.


Don't even get me started on the FDA, Mur.


----------



## StarSong (Mar 11, 2021)

win231 said:


> but people who choose not to get the vaccine don't try to convince others to make the same choice.


Not sure I agree with that statement.  There have been plenty of threads, links and opinions on this forum (plus other places) strongly in favor of declining the vaccine.


----------



## Geezerette (Mar 11, 2021)

It just happened by chance that the first vac apt that came my way was for. Moderna, I took it & the usual arth aches cranked up a bit for a day or so. Got 2nd on Mar 7, just felt a bit “blah” for a day. I had never heard of Moderna before. I would have been leery of the J & J, don’t have a really high opinion of that co. I detest what has happened due to the excess Rx of opioids. I feel it’s very sad that some people have had bad reactions, and I hope those cases will be studied in depth. I trust those closest to me to make their own decisions about vaccine, and hopefully will not have any problems. Can honestly say I “never met a vaccine i didn’t like”.
It still worries me that people could be making decisions based on politics and economics rather than science.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Mar 11, 2021)

Geezerette said:


> It just happened by chance that the first vac apt that came my way was for. Moderna, I took it & the usual arth aches cranked up a bit for a day or so. Got 2nd on Mar 7, just felt a bit “blah” for a day. I had never heard of Moderna before. I would have been leery of the J & J, don’t have a really high opinion of that co. I detest what has happened due to the excess Rx of opioids. I feel it’s very sad that some people have had bad reactions, and I hope those cases will be studied in depth. I trust those closest to me to make their own decisions about vaccine, and hopefully will not have any problems. Can honestly say I “never met a vaccine i didn’t like”.
> *It still worries me that people could be making decisions based on politics and economics rather than science.*


Science (good or bad) means nothing to me when those behind such science are nothing more than two-bit, conniving liars.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 11, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Science (good or bad) means nothing to me when those being the science are nothing more than two-bit, conniving liars. to call people working 12 to 14 hours a day trying to save the human race “liars”, l


Easy to call people who work 8 to 16 hours a day “liars” as they try to save the human race.  Easier yet for some people to drink the kool aid and believe the fairy tale of there is no virus, there is no relative science to prove there is a virus, and the saviors of the human race are liars.

I seem to recall a certain past head of state who forwarded this fairy tale and then snuck off with his tail between his legs in the dead of night and got secretly vaccinated.  While his fairy tale believers died.  Who is the liar now?


----------



## JimBob1952 (Mar 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Pfizer was fined $2.5 million for fraudulent marketing practices (regarding opioids in particular). When their vaccine brought their stocks up, they more than recovered the $2.5 mil.



Pfizer's global sales last year were $41.9 billion.  So a $2.5 million fine is no big deal.


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Pfizer's global sales last year were $41.9 billion.  So a $2.5 million fine is no big deal.


Especially when it doesn't actually come out of your pocket.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 11, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Pfizer's global sales last year were $41.9 billion.  So a $2.5 million fine is no big deal.


So I am not going to get the polio vaccine, because I hate the guy that invented it!  . Hmm, nope, I am getting that vaccine.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Mar 11, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Pfizer's global sales last year were $41.9 billion.  So a $2.5 million fine is no big deal.


The fine, aside from being a joke, was handed-down to remind Pfizer to _up their game_ when it comes to underhanded practices, in other words... cover things up better in the future in relation to fraudulent marketing practices.

Otherwise, job well done Pfizer! Carry on.


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2021)

I've often wondered why "essential workers" weren't next in line for the vaccine after "front line workers" instead of elderly people, particularly since many elderly people already live in relative (safe) seclusion if not within a senior facility (which, if you remember, is where a significant number of COVID cases were being transferred to from hospitals), and I sometimes wonder if the conversation went like this -

Essential workers: I don't want the vaccine until there's more data. Let someone else go first.
Deciding parties: No sweat, we have an endless supply of old people.
Essential workers: But they have underlying health problems, won't that mess up the data?
Deciding parties: Yes, but we can still glean useful convincing data.

Not saying that's how it went, just saying it kinda makes sense.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I've often wondered why "essential workers" weren't next in line for the vaccine after "front line workers" instead of elderly people, particularly since many elderly people already live in relative (safe) seclusion if not within a senior facility (which, if you remember, is were where a significant number of COVID cases were being transferred to from hospitals), and I sometimes wonder if the conversation went like this -
> 
> Essential workers: I don't want the vaccine until there's more data. Let someone else go first.
> Deciding parties: No sweat, we have an endless supply of old people.
> ...


I don’t know and, “frankly my dear I don’t give a damn” (Gone with the Wind). . As with the stimulus, I got mine, up to you to get yours or not.


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I don’t know and, “frankly my dear I don’t give a damn” (Gone with the Wind). . As with the stimulus, I got mine, up to you to get yours or not.


I'm expecting it.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Mar 11, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I don’t know and, “frankly my dear I don’t give a damn” (Gone with the Wind). . As with the stimulus, I got mine, up to you to get yours or not.


Every time I hear the word "_stimulus_", I gag! 

Aside from digging our countries into debt deeper, what is a pittance of a payment going to do for those who are behind on their rents, for those who haven't made mortgage payments for the past 6 months, who can't pay their heating and light bills, who can't put food on the table?

Here, I'll answer it for you, not a single thing.

$600 - $1000, big whoopty-doo! We spend that a month on groceries alone. Now, where is the additional monies to catch up on mortgage payments, car payments, food, keeping the gas and electricity on?

Where is the additional monies to cover incidentals and emergency happenings?

Where is the additional monies to pay for people's property taxes?

It's a joke, that's what it is.


----------



## Giantsfan1954 (Mar 11, 2021)

Originally was in the no column, did some reading and saw it doesn’t contain any live virus, getting my 2nd Moderna on Saturday.


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2021)

Giantsfan1954 said:


> Originally was in the no column, *did some reading and saw it doesn’t contain any live virus*, getting my 2nd Moderna on Saturday.


Yeah, I did too. Then, at first I thought RNA had never been used in a vaccine before and that was alarming, but it has many times, and was very effective. It's mostly effective at mitigation - reducing symptoms/keeping you out of the ICU. So you can still get COVID, but you won't get nearly as sick as you might have without the vaccine and you won't be sick for nearly as long.


----------



## Irwin (Mar 11, 2021)

We're getting vaccinated tomorrow afternoon, and will need to drive about an hour to do so. I'm more worried about the forecasted snow storm than my reaction to the vaccine.


----------



## DaveA (Mar 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Now that the supply of these Covid vaccines are starting to become more readily available, some parts of our area are actually seeing "empty" appointments, and opportunities for people to just "show up" to get a shot.  However, There are several reports about substantial numbers of people who are Not intending to get vaccinated.
> 
> I can understand refusing to get a vaccine if a person has an existing health issue that might be aggravated by one of these shots....but, if a person is generally in good health, Why would they Not want to get some protection from this pandemic???


Two words "Political viewpoint"  Doesn't make sense but there seems to be a connection between anti-vaccers and their political leanings.


----------



## Lewkat (Mar 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> The problem is trust. How can you trust a pharmaceutical company that's killed almost as many Americans from opioid overdoses as have died from COVID and who also made sure they can't be sued for future damages from the vaccine, or the FDA that approved the over-prescribing of opioids and also refuses to ban dangerous food additives year after year, or a government that's listening to lobbyists while it says it's listening to the science?


Murr, please, these pharmaceutical companies did not kill anyone who overdosed on opiods and that kind of logic befuddles me.  Gun manufacturers do not kill victims of gunshots either, but a lot of people seem to think so.  Including some judges and juries.


----------



## win231 (Mar 11, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Not sure I agree with that statement.  There have been plenty of threads, links and opinions on this forum (plus other places) strongly in favor of declining the vaccine.


Much like the flu shot, if someone asks me why I don't want the vaccine, I will explain why.  That's not the same as trying to convince others not to get the vaccine.  I would never try to convince anyone to get it or not get it.
Last week, I drove some elderly friends to get their Covid vaccines.  They know I'm not getting the vaccine; we've discussed it.


----------



## fmdog44 (Mar 11, 2021)

Got my first of two Pfizer shots this afternoon. Zero pain, everything went smoothly despite a lot of people it was very smooth and organized. The bottle with the vaccine is smaller than a thimble yet contains six doses. I have to go back on March 30 for the second shot. April is going to be a very great month for this old boy.


----------



## win231 (Mar 11, 2021)

DaveA said:


> Two words "Political viewpoint"  Doesn't make sense but there seems to be a connection between anti-vaccers and their political leanings.


Two words:  "You're mistaken."  I'm not an anti-vaxxer & I have no interest whatsoever in politics.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Mar 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Especially when it doesn't actually come out of your pocket.




True that, as they used to say.  It would make more sense to have the CEO and board responsible for paying the fines themselves.  They would find a way to wriggle out of that, though.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Mar 11, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> True that, as they used to say.  It would make more sense to have the CEO and board responsible for paying the fines themselves.  They would find a way to wriggle out of that, though.


What I'd love to see in the event a pharmaceutical company is caught lying or misleading the public in any way, shut them down forever to set an example to all others - _this is what happens when you_...

Then finish the job up good and proper by locking up the CEO's and executives involved, and if need be, seize every penny, every asset, every stitch of their worth.


----------



## JonDouglas (Mar 11, 2021)

We were planning to get the vaccine from our MD but the governor pulled all the vaccine out doctors and hospitals to give it to some other organizations to supposedly speed things up and probably make himself look like he was doing something.  You'd think tthey could have left some for us old folks.


----------



## J.B Books (Mar 11, 2021)

I'm not getting the vax.
I had covid.
Maybe I'll get it again. That's my problem.
If you want to get the vax, go ahead.
I don't care. You can have my shot.
Just leave me alone.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 11, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Every time I hear the word "_stimulus_", I gag!
> 
> Aside from digging our countries into debt deeper, what is a pittance of a payment going to do for those who are behind on their rents, for those who haven't made mortgage payments for the past 6 months, who can't pay their heating and light bills, who can't put food on the table?
> 
> ...


I was going to respond, but I decided that I can not figure out if you want more money or less money.  So, as I have asked before, could you clarify your position?


----------



## win231 (Mar 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> My "health" is an ongoing concern, and I try to take good care of it.  However, in the case of this virus, the Far Bigger Picture is the steps every individual should try to take to insure the health of those around them.  Since this disease appears to be so easily spread, it would seem that "responsible" people would be trying to do their small part to bring it under control....IMO.  Those who chose not to do so are part of the problem.


The CDC has admitted the vaccine does not prevent transmission to others.  So, the far bigger picture is that getting the vaccine does not insure the health of those around them.


----------



## Geezerette (Mar 11, 2021)

As I understand it the govt stimulus also incIdes money for the states to help with things like peoples’ rent, utilities, child care to get the moms back to work, increase benefits for essential workers. With states contributing part also. 
I used to think noble, lofty thoughts about not wanting to increase the national debt, but life is different for me now. The first 2 checks enabled me to get my 20 yr old car serviced really well. This is the last car I’ll ever have and knowing it’s going to be running as well as possible gives me a lot of peace of mind.


----------



## needshave (Mar 11, 2021)

I had my second Vaccination on Saturday 0306.

I was diagnosed with  carpal tunnel and arthritic thumbs in both hands. The evening of the shot, all was good, no issues. When I awoke the next morning my right hand/wrist was in  a lot of pain. Wrist movement yielded a lot of pain in forearm. I went to my surgeon and they did a lot of testing and determined that the vaccine provided a lot of new and odd pains in odd locations. The thought was the excessive pain was vaccination based. After about three days the pain has left as fast as it came and all is good. 

Would I do it over and take the vaccination again......? 

Absolutely.


----------



## Don M. (Mar 11, 2021)

win231 said:


> The CDC has admitted the vaccine does not prevent transmission to others.  So, the far bigger picture is that getting the vaccine does not insure the health of those around them.



That's true.  Even if a person is vaccinated, and pretty much immune, they can still come into contact with those who are Not, and be exposed to the virus via a cough or sneeze, and thus carry the virus which can then be transmitted to others.  The Only way to bring this virus under control is for the vast majority to be vaccinated so they cannot spread the disease to those who are Not vaccinated.


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> Murr, please, these pharmaceutical companies did not kill anyone who overdosed on opiods and that kind of logic befuddles me.  Gun manufacturers do not kill victims of gunshots either, but a lot of people seem to think so.  Including some judges and juries.


The legal complaint was/is that pharma intentionally minimized the addictive level of opioid drugs, and rewarded physicians and hospitals for prescribing opioids freely and/or unnecessarily and over lengthy periods of time when it was originally intended for temporary use. Rather directly or indirectly, "big pharma" is considered complicit in deaths caused by overdose and/or addiction to opioids. That's according to attorneys handling class-action and personal lawsuits. There's more specific info online.


----------



## Don M. (Mar 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> The legal complaint was/is that pharma intentionally minimized the addictive level of opioid drugs, and rewarded physicians and hospitals for prescribing opioids freely and/or unnecessarily and over lengthy periods of time when it was originally intended for temporary use. Rather directly or indirectly, "big pharma" is considered complicit in deaths caused by overdose and/or addiction to opioids. That's according to attorneys handling class-action and personal lawsuits. There's more specific info online.



Doctors Firmly in the hip pockets of the drug companies has been a problem for decades.  For several years, an organization call ProPublica has been tracking these payments and there is No shortage of doctors who have become wealthy from their drug "kickbacks".

https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 12, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Doctors Firmly in the hip pockets of the drug companies has been a problem for decades.  For several years, an organization call ProPublica has been tracking these payments and there is No shortage of doctors who have become wealthy from their drug "kickbacks".
> 
> https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/


Doctors get kickbacks, known as incentives, for all the medicines they prescribe.  I remember when my doctor wanted me to take a certain diabetic medicine, he was pushing it on all his patients


----------



## squatting dog (Mar 12, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Every time I hear the word "_stimulus_", I gag!
> 
> Aside from digging our countries into debt deeper, what is a pittance of a payment going to do for those who are behind on their rents, for those who haven't made mortgage payments for the past 6 months, who can't pay their heating and light bills, who can't put food on the table?
> 
> ...


Yeah, but think how much it's helped those truly in need by calling it a relief bill.


----------



## squatting dog (Mar 12, 2021)




----------



## squatting dog (Mar 12, 2021)

Stories like this don't seem to get much more than local coverage these days... Ever wonder why?   

Kassidi Kurill, a mother of one from Ogden, received the vaccine due to her work as a surgical tech for several plastic surgeons, KUTV reported.
“She was absolutely fine with getting it. In fact, she told all of us, ‘It’s fine, you guys should all get it,’” her father, Alfred Hawley, told the outlet.
Kurill reportedly experienced a sore arm after the first dose of Moderna, but had no other noticeable side effects. Things took a sudden and tragic turn after her second dose on February 1st. While she was in bed all day Tuesday and Wednesday, it wasn’t until Thursday morning she knew something was wrong. She woke up early, got ready, and asked her dad to drive her to the local emergency room, where they arrived by 7 a.m.
“She came in early and said her heart was racing and she felt like she needed to get to the emergency room,” Hawley said.
When they arrived at the ER, Kurill was throwing up. Her father told doctors his daughter had just received her second shot.
“They did a blood test and immediately came back and said she was very, very sick, and her liver was not functioning,” he told KUTV.
Kurill’s older sister Kristin, who lives in Arizona, said she knew her sister had gone to the hospital, but the speed at which she deteriorated was “so unexpected.”


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 12, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Yeah, but think how much it's helped those truly in need by calling it a relief bill.
> 
> View attachment 154336


In our state, no work, no welfare -generalizations don’t work for me.

Bail out “blue” states-you meant states they are going broke because the “red” party failed to act to protect the people of the USA from Covid?  Yes, let’s not give medical care to illegal immigrants let them die in the street, in your front yard I suppose so you can watch.

I could go on, but I won’t.  Call it whatever you want a rose by any other name is still a rose.  And veterans in this country still die waiting for the VA appointment that would save their life.  There are more important things to harp on than this.


----------



## squatting dog (Mar 12, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I could go on, but I won’t.  Call it whatever you want a rose by any other name is still a rose.  And veterans in this country still die waiting for the VA appointment that would save their life.  There are more important things to harp on than this.



You were right about one thing,
Don't want to go political here, but, looking at the Billions being spent elsewhere under the guise of covid relief is just ludicrous. 
I see money that could be better spent on the VA than where it is currently headed.


----------



## Liberty (Mar 12, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Stories like this don't seem to get much more than local coverage these days... Ever wonder why?
> 
> Kassidi Kurill, a mother of one from Ogden, received the vaccine due to her work as a surgical tech for several plastic surgeons, KUTV reported.
> “She was absolutely fine with getting it. In fact, she told all of us, ‘It’s fine, you guys should all get it,’” her father, Alfred Hawley, told the outlet.
> ...


This is probably why:

VAERS  shows 92 mil doses of the vaccines were administered from Dec. 14th to March 8th  VAERS received 1,637 reports of deaths (0.0018%).  No evidence of vaccine contribution has been evidenced.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html


----------



## J.B Books (Mar 12, 2021)

The state of Illinois was voted the third most corrupt state in the U.S.
Chicago was voted the most corrupt city in the U.S.
The State and City have been so mismanaged for decades that it is Billions of dollars in debt.
Illinois was broke before covid, yet they are getting a huge federal bailout to reward them on it's mismanagement.
Why should the tax payers of Texas, Tennessee, Florida, etc. pay for the complete lack of fiscal responsibility of Illinois?


----------



## garyt1957 (Mar 12, 2021)

Don M. said:


> I'm not a "fan" of prescription drugs, and most of these "annual" vaccinations....flu, pneumonia, shingles, etc.  Most of that Crap is more about making the drug companies rich, IMO.  However, in the case of this CoronaVirus, I made an exception and got my 2nd Moderna shot yesterday, and, like the first shot, all I'm feeling today is a very minor "itch" on my arm.
> 
> The primary reason why I'm taking this vaccine seriously is because of the extreme effect it's having on our economy and the huge number of people who have lost their jobs, etc.  I feel it's my responsibility to do whatever I can to help return everything back to normal, and a bit of minor pain for a day or two is a small sacrifice if it helps end this mess.


If you could guarantee that everyone will only have "a bit of minor pain" I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would sign up. But you can't.  I know a guy who's mother in law got a pulmonary embolism right after her second shot. PE is listed as a possible side effect of the Pfizer vaccine.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Mar 12, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> If you could guarantee that everyone will only have "a bit of minor pain" I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would sign up. But you can't.  I know a guy who's mother in law got a pulmonary embolism right after her second shot. PE is listed as a possible side effect of the Pfizer vaccine.


That's as scary as it gets.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 12, 2021)

J.B Books said:


> The state of Illinois was voted the third most corrupt state in the U.S.
> Chicago was voted the most corrupt city in the U.S.
> The State and City have been so mismanaged for decades that it is Billions of dollars in debt.
> Illinois was broke before covid, yet they are getting a huge federal bailout to reward them on it's mismanagement.
> Why should the tax payers of Texas, Tennessee, Florida, etc. pay for the complete lack of fiscal responsibility of Illinois?


Yup, let them eat cake


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 12, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> If you could guarantee that everyone will only have "a bit of minor pain" I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would sign up. But you can't.  I know a guy who's mother in law got a pulmonary embolism right after her second shot. PE is listed as a possible side effect of the Pfizer vaccine.


And yet lots of people got pulmonary embolisms before there was Covid and before there was a vaccine.  Lots of people die from peanut allergies so I think farmers should stop planting peanuts.  I am severely allergic to eggplant I think restaurants should be banned from serving it.

Life has NEVER offered any guarantees.

*A major side effect of not taking the vaccine is death.  *But I agree, if someone does not want to take the vaccine, don’t.


----------



## Liberty (Mar 12, 2021)

The truly scary thing about covid is the "long haulers"...the percentage of those that had even minor symptoms and have ongoing 
major issues is staggering.  It seems its like 10% now:https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/covid-19-information/covid-19-long-haulers.html


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 12, 2021)

Liberty said:


> The truly scary thing about covid is the "long haulers"...the percentage of those that had even minor symptoms and have ongoing
> major issues is staggering.  It seems its like 10% now:https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/covid-19-information/covid-19-long-haulers.html


I agree everything about this virus is horrific


----------



## StarSong (Mar 12, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Yeah, but think how much it's helped those truly in need by calling it a relief bill.
> 
> View attachment 154336


Context and truth are everything, but of course memes ignore context and truth because, well, they're memes.

To pick apart just one piece of this ridiculous (lying) meme. The stimulus package provides $350 Billion is to bail our ALL states, not just blue states. US population: 330 million divided by $350 billion = roughly $1.06 *$1060.00* per person. A dollar and six cents. According to FOX Business,
Wyoming residents (red state) scored quite well per person: $1.36 billion for 579,000 people = *$2.35* *$2350.00* per person.
California (blue state) got $42.6 billion for 39.5 million people = $1.08 *$1080.0*0 per person.
Alaska (red state) got $1.36 billion for 731,000 people = *$1.86* *$1860.00 *per person

*Corrections are above in bolded red - and a thanks to @J.B Books for pointing it out.  My decimals were in the wrong place.  *

I'm not going to bother doing all the math. The point that this meme is BS has been proven.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy...l-receive-from-bidens-coronavirus-relief-bill


----------



## J.B Books (Mar 12, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Context and truth are everything, but of course memes ignore context and truth because, well, they're memes.
> 
> To pick apart just one piece of this ridiculous (lying) meme. The stimulus package provides $350 Billion is to bail our ALL states, not just blue states. US population: 330 million divided by $350 billion = roughly $1.06 per person. A dollar and six cents. According to FOX Business,
> Wyoming residents (red state) scored quite well per person: $1.36 billion for 579,000 people = $2.35 per person.
> ...


I think your math is wrong.
$350 Billion divided by 330 million people =$1,060.61 per person
Just sayin.

Wyoming would get $2,348.88 per person ($1.36 billion divided by 579,000 people)


----------



## StarSong (Mar 12, 2021)

J.B Books said:


> I think your math is wrong.
> $350 Billion divided by 330 million people =$1,060.61 per person
> Just sayin.
> 
> Wyoming would get $2,348.88 per person ($1.36 billion divided by 579,000 people)


You're right. I stand corrected and edited accordingly.  Thank you for pointing this out! 
Nevertheless, the proportions stand.


----------



## Mr. Ed (Mar 12, 2021)

I think the question in itself is violation of privacy


----------



## Murrmurr (Mar 12, 2021)

Mr. Ed said:


> I think to ask that question is an intrusion of privacy. Much the same as HIPPA laws but in a public forum...


...and it isn't compulsory to respond.


----------



## Mr. Ed (Mar 12, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> ...and it isn't compulsory to respond.


Well you know me, here to stir the pot. We’re having stone soup tonight.


----------



## squatting dog (Mar 13, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Context and truth are everything, but of course memes ignore context and truth because, well, they're memes.
> 
> To pick apart just one piece of this ridiculous (lying) meme. The stimulus package provides $350 Billion is to bail our ALL states, not just blue states. US population: 330 million divided by $350 billion = roughly $1.06 *$1060.00* per person. A dollar and six cents. According to FOX Business,
> Wyoming residents (red state) scored quite well per person: $1.36 billion for 579,000 people = *$2.35* *$2350.00* per person.
> ...


Never the less, I refer to our state senator's comment. I'm pretty sure he would know the amounts involved.
"Despite the legislation being touted as a COVID-19 relief bill, less than 10 percent of this package is related to public health".


----------



## J.B Books (Mar 13, 2021)




----------



## Lewkat (Mar 13, 2021)

For the record, I do not brag that I have been vaccinated, but having been so has opened doors for me.


----------



## StarSong (Mar 13, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Never the less, I refer to our state senator's comment. *I'm pretty sure he would know the amounts involved.*
> "Despite the legislation being touted as a COVID-19 relief bill, less than 10 percent of this package is related to public health".


What made him think it was supposed to be related to public health?  I never heard this legislation (or the previous administration's relief bills) explained that way.  This was largely focused on economic relief.  Same as before.  It's called a COVID Relief Bill.


----------



## squatting dog (Mar 13, 2021)

StarSong said:


> What made him think it was supposed to be related to public health?  I never heard this legislation (or the previous administration's relief bills) explained that way.  This was largely focused on economic relief.  Same as before.  It's called a COVID Relief Bill.


So, if one listens to Senators, (whom I suppose know less about this bill than you), and they say between 90 to 91 percent of the bill has NOTHING to do with COVID  RELIEF.... well, I guess I'll just have to get all my info from now on from you (who is obviously more informed than those lowly Senators).


----------



## StarSong (Mar 13, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> So, if one listens to Senators, (whom I suppose know less about this bill than you), and they say between 90 to 91 percent of the bill has NOTHING to do with COVID  RELIEF.... well, I guess I'll just have to get all my info from now on from you (who is obviously more informed than those lowly Senators).


I only said that I'd never heard or seen anything to indicate that this bill was meant to be about* public health* (in response to what you stated in your earlier post).


----------



## Aneeda72 (Mar 13, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> So, if one listens to Senators, (whom I suppose know less about this bill than you), and they say between 90 to 91 percent of the bill has NOTHING to do with COVID  RELIEF.... well, I guess I'll just have to get all my info from now on from you (who is obviously more informed than those lowly Senators).
> View attachment 154501


Depends on which senators you are talking about the ones who read the bill or listened when the bill was being read or the ones who were to busy reading preschool books to listen .


----------

