# How to prepare early for Nursing Home



## gary1826 (Jul 28, 2019)

I had long term care in my early career but the cost kept getting more expensive.  How I wish I kept it,  In the last three years I have been in hospital and nursing home because of breaking an ankle and losing part of the bone. 
My neighbor put their assets into their kid's name.  They told me this was to protect their assets from being taken from Nursing Homes.


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## Rosemarie (Jul 29, 2019)

People are living longer and as a result there are more elderly who need long-term care. Too many people think its the responsibility of the welfare state to care for these people. I disagree. I think we all need to accept that we may need care in our later years and make some preparation for it. Ideally, older folks should be cared for by their families, but this is not always possible or desirable.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 29, 2019)

i can tell you with my dad there was no way anyone of us could have taken care of him in our home .

usually by the time snf is needed it is well beyond family .

how it typically plays out is a family member gets hurt trying to move 200 lbs of limp flesh if they are moving someone paralyzed from a stroke and they are both in trouble or the person becomes violent with memory issues and someone gets hurt ...

the best way to bust up a family is have one sibling step up to the plate and take in a parent who needs care . odds are the other siblings step back and the battles begin .

usually the person providing the care takes a monetary hit , a career hit , a social hit and maybe even loses a job .

if you have a spouse odds are you can kiss that marriage good bye once the spouse starts on why do we have to do it and sacrifice so much and your brothers and sisters do nothing .


one of the worst things parents can do to their kids is drop their long term care burden on their children .

remember we are talking people who need a snf , not in home care or assisted living .


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## mathjak107 (Jul 29, 2019)

after much thought about self insuring we went with a ny state partnership plan .

we wanted it not so much for the 3 years insurance , even though a snf is 120k-140k a year in our area , we wanted it for the perks after the insurance ran out .

no shifting of assets , full asset protection , pretty much full income protection for the stay at home spouse  , a special version of medicaid picks up the bills after the insurance runs out .

i mentioned in another thread , the fact that money magazine did a feature story on us years ago .

they wanted to put their team of pro's against me  since i did all my own planning .

i wanted to self insure and they were against it for so many reasons . they were right .

those who say they are self insuring really have no plan . they hope they don't need care and they hope they have the funds .

but once the stay at home spouse goes in to survival mode those funds become a battle ground usually .

the issue with self insuring is that like any insurance :

you need the funds to cover you day 1 . you have to invest that insurance money in a safe and secure fashion . it can not just be thrown in the pool of money generating your income since that assumes it can always go to zero doing so .

to self insure  properly means safe low returns on that money .

for just a small percentage of the gains from keeping our money invested normally we can pay for a full blown , inflation adjusted policy that covers 3 years in a snf or 6 years assisted living or in home care .

so we ended up going the policy route .

most of our attorney's work today is the self insurer's . they are scrambling at the last minute trying to preserve assets and to protect the income of their spouse .


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## hypochondriac (Jul 29, 2019)

Gotta feel sorry for elderly who have no money and dont want to burden their kids. is it any wonder they feel suicidal?


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## mathjak107 (Jul 29, 2019)

in our area there is no difference between private homes and medicaid homes .. the homes just have a limited number of beds assigned to medicaid so they are pretty nice


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 29, 2019)

I've chosen to self insure but I'm hoping that our elected officials will approve an assisted suicide bill in our state so those of us that don't wish to enter a SNF can opt-out of the lengthy and expensive end of life nightmare.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 29, 2019)

my buddy is in a home from his Parkinson's ... he is paying 14k a month . in fact he exhuasted his money this month and finally goes on medicaid for august


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## Keesha (Jul 29, 2019)

Please excuse  my ignorance here but what is SNF!


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 29, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Please excuse  my ignorance here but what is SNF!


Skilled Nursing Facility


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## Don M. (Jul 29, 2019)

We've been paying for a Long Term Care policy for the past couple of decades.  I'm hoping we go quickly, and all that money is wasted.  However, should we wind up needing care in our later years, hopefully this policy will allow for some decent care in a nice facility.


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## JimW (Jul 30, 2019)

Wife and I explored the ltc policies a few months ago. Found out that I was disqualified due to my R/A and the meds I take for it. My wife qualified for the LTC policy which was $200 per month for $4000 per month coverage for 3 years ($144,000 total) with a 3% inflation rider. We also looked into critical care policies as well, for what you pay in premiums the payouts aren't that much. It was $158 per month for an individual policy with a one time payout of $60K should we be diagnosed with one of the illnesses the policy covers (there are about 8 major illnesses covered). We are still thinking of purchasing at least one of these policies, but they aren't cheap. The prices I've listed here are for our current age of 55, the premiums go up the longer one waits to purchase a policy. Having to spend this much money per month both leading up to and into retirement to insure you don't lose your house should make everyone think twice about the lousy healthcare system in the US.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 30, 2019)

we bought a partnership plan , not for the 3 years coverage we had to take but for all the asset and income protection after the insurance is up . otherwise we likely would not have done it just for conventional coverage .


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## JimW (Jul 30, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> we bought a partnership plan , not for the 3 years coverage we had to take but for all the asset and income protection after the insurance is up . otherwise we likely would not have done it just for conventional coverage .



The partnership plans are even more expensive than regular policies.

I've been thinking of just putting the money we would pay in premiums into a Roth IRA. That may or may not cover us come a long term illness depending on when the illness happens and how long it drags out, but the upside is that money is also available should some non-medical emergency arise and we need the money. We are planning on sitting down with an elder care attorney before the year is out to see what our best options are regarding asset protection, possibly an irrevocable trust.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 30, 2019)

see my post above about self insuring .... if you self insure you need to do it like an insurer would . not leaving the money in the asset generation pool  . it has to be isolated , safe and ready for action and that means low returns as well as a hit to income ... that money can not be used to spin an an income off since even a safe withdrawal rate assumes there can be a dollar left


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## treeguy64 (Jul 30, 2019)

Yeah, I can't see concerning myself with how to prepare, financially, for going into some facility that smells like Death's waiting room, where I'll sleep away the rest of my life, drooling on myself in a wheelchair in front of a TV tuned to who knows what channel, not that it'll make a difference. I'll take the alternative, no second thoughts needed.


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## JimW (Jul 30, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> see my post above about self insuring .... *if you self insure you need to do it like an insurer would . not leaving the money in the asset generation pool  . it has to be isolated *, safe and ready for action and that means low returns as well as a hit to income ... that money can not be used to spin an an income off since even a safe withdrawal rate assumes there can be a dollar left



Not sure I understand this. If I'm saving the money to be used for long term heath expenses, wouldn't that money be gone by the time assetts start being taken? Why should it be isolated? Wouldn't putting that money in an irrevocable trust isolate it?


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## mathjak107 (Jul 30, 2019)

what most people who self insure do IS NOTHING .  they basically have a pile of money in a portfolio that generates their income in retirement . 

it may be in a 40/60  50/50 or 60/40 portfolio ....

drawing even 4% of it inflation adjusted to live assumes under   worst case outcomes that money can dwindle down over time . if it is your insurance money for you or a spouse  that insurance money needs to be pulled out of that volatile mix , not spent down as part of your living expense money and it has to be available and kept in low yielding investments .

otherwise you are not really doing anything other then calling your  portfolio self insuring .


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## JimW (Jul 30, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> what most people who self insure do IS NOTHING .  they basically have a pile of money in a portfolio that generates their income in retirement .
> 
> it may be in a 40/60  50/50 or 60/40 portfolio ....
> 
> ...



If I'm trusting a 40/60  50/50 or 60/40 portfolio as my lifeblood for living expenses in retirement, then that same type of portfolio should be trustworthy enough for long term health expenses or anything else life would throw at me. If I end up losing everything with one of the safest portfolios there is, then so be it. If that type of portfolio fails me, chances are I would be losing my home anyway. There would be millions of people in a world of hurt should that happen. You can't get blood from a stone.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 30, 2019)

if you are drawing 4%  inflation adjusted  , that assumes  that 4%  which  a married couple is consuming  pretty much covers their living expenses perhaps with ss and pension .  to throw an additional load on it of up to 14k a month for god knows how long will leave the stay at home spouse well underfunded . in most cases

to really self insure  you need to pull a large sum out of that  portfolio and not  count on living on it so it is their for long term care ... basically you need to plan a life around a lot less income when you self insure properly ... that is why our estate attorney says his practice is dominated by the self insurers .

once the realization hits that the stay at home spouses income has to be drastically slashed to cover their living costs and their home and life still cost almost as much  and as much as 14k a month at the same time for a home they go in to panic mode.  there is not a big drop in costs for the stay at home spouse.

it is really difficult for us to act like an insurance company when the crap hits the fan  unless we plan and think like one in advance .


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## JimW (Jul 30, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> if you are drawing 4%  inflation adjusted  , that assumes  that 4%  which  a married couple is consuming  pretty much covers their living expenses perhaps with ss and pension .  to throw an additional load on it of up to 14k a month for god knows how long will leave the stay at home spouse well underfunded . in most cases
> 
> to really self insure  you need to pull a large sum out of that  portfolio and not  count on living on it so it is their for long term care ... basically you need to plan a life around a lot less income when you self insure properly ... that is why our estate attorney says his practice is dominated by the self insurers .
> 
> ...



I'm not sure where you get $14K a month from or what it includes. Most estimates I have seen of LTC costs outside of what is covered by medicare is $3-$5K per month depending on the illness. In my case, I do not qualify for a LTC policy due to my R/A, and the payout vs. premium cost of a critical care plan is boderline on whether it's worth the investment. This is why I'm thinking of self insuring with an IRA or some other investment, I really don't have another choice. Also most reports I have seen say that the majority of people do not use long term care for more than a year. They either die or get better and go home.


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## AnnieA (Jul 30, 2019)

gary1826 said:


> My neighbor put their assets into their kid's name.  They told me this was to protect their assets from being taken from Nursing Homes.



What you're trying to avoid is asset depletion before Medicaid kicks in.

This is a complex move in that if you do it without a certain amount of elapsed time before admission to a nursing home, you'll be rejected by Medicaid and your family will wind up paying the nursing home out of pocket.   You'll need an attorney to set up trusts should you go that route.

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/strategies-to-protect-money-from-medicaid-175434.htm


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## mathjak107 (Jul 30, 2019)

JimW said:


> I'm not sure where you get $14K a month from or what it includes. Most estimates I have seen of LTC costs outside of what is covered by medicare is $3-$5K per month depending on the illness. In my case, I do not qualify for a LTC policy due to my R/A, and the payout vs. premium cost of a critical care plan is boderline on whether it's worth the investment. This is why I'm thinking of self insuring with an IRA or some other investment, I really don't have another choice. Also most reports I have seen say that the majority of people do not use long term care for more than a year. They either die or get better and go home.


it depends where you live . my buddy is in a local home here in long island with parkinsons . it is 14k a month ... he is just winding down depleting his own assets this month . medicaid takes over next month

https://www.seniorliving.org/nursing-homes/costs/


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## mathjak107 (Jul 30, 2019)

AnnieA said:


> What you're trying to avoid is asset depletion before Medicaid kicks in.
> 
> This is a complex move in that if you do it without a certain amount of elapsed time before admission to a nursing home, you'll be rejected by Medicaid and your family will wind up paying the nursing home out of pocket.   You'll need an attorney to set up trusts should you go that route.
> 
> https://www.agingcare.com/articles/strategies-to-protect-money-from-medicaid-175434.htm


very risky move , there is a 5 year look back ... the kids can be sued if creditors come after them for something  , as well as divorce between the kids can be a problem .

trusts are a whole other problem for the stay at home spouse .. plus what does a spouse do when you put all their money in your kids name ?


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## AnnieA (Jul 30, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> very risky move , there is a 5 year look back ... the kids can be sued if creditors come after them for something  , as well as divorce between the kids can be a problem .
> 
> trusts are a whole other problem for the stay at home spouse .. plus what does a spouse do when you put all their money in your kids name ?



Agree it's risky, but that's what he's referring to in the OP.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 30, 2019)

if you have no spouse it is simple .. leave everything as is and when the money is gone its gone . but planning around a spouse and not impoverishing them is not easy. my dad was in a home for 5 years so we know all to well the effects


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## Lethe200 (Jul 30, 2019)

>>Most estimates I have seen of LTC costs outside of what is covered by medicare is $3-$5K per month depending on the illness.  >>

We live in a high-labor cost area, specifically Northern CA. Skilled Nursing Facilities (formerly called nursing homes) are a minimum of $8K/mo and go up to $14K/mo, depending on the facility you choose. 

Medicare DOES NOT cover long-term care. It covers only 100 days of skilled care nursing for _convalescing. _There are very stringent requirements to fulfill. For example, if you go into a hospital but your doctors keep you for *observation, but never actually admit you as a patient,* Medicare can deny a claim for convalescent care even if your physician recommended and sent you to the facility. It is also limited to *per illness. *

Medicaid is a different and separate program. Unlike Medicare it is not a federal program. It is funded 50% by the Federal government and 50% by the participating state, but it is the state's responsibility to use the funds and set up requirements for such. The Federal guidelines are mostly limited to personal asset rules; e.g., the $2000 personal net wealth total, minus certain excluded possessions.

Medicaid is the program which reimburses nursing homes for indigent patients, but because that rate is so much less what private pay facilities cost, many senior facilities will not accept people who are ailing or have insufficient financial assets. Because Medicaid is regulated by each state, you always need to keep an eye on what your state decides to fund and what it does not.

HTH and makes sense.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 31, 2019)

the problem insurers had was the usage stats were flawed and way understated ..
they pertained to a generation ago when more care was done at home as well as like my dad was in , many healthcare workers took people like my dad who was paralyzed from a stroke in to their homes and cared for 2 or 3 like that .  it was far cheaper then a nursing home . many like my dad were healthy and were easier to care for so they basically were not in official homes and fell off the radar .

insurers were blind sided when they set rates and it took years for the actual usage to surface .

According to a 2016 report from the National Association of Insurance Commissioners 

48% are expected to have no long-term care costs during their lifetimes,
15.4% will have costs of up to $50,000,
9.7% will have costs of $50,000-$100,000,
11.7% will have costs of $100,000-$250,000, and
15.2% will have costs that exceed $250,000.

the problem we have as humans is statistics mean little . we only have two outcomes ...it's us or it isn't .


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 31, 2019)

Thanks for the statistics, they are very interesting to me.

IMO we do have some small measure of control over the outcome if we are able to literally drag our feet and delay the process of entering a SNF as long as possible.  That may not be possible for someone like your dad that had a stroke or your friend with Parkinson's but for many people who are simply old and infirm it can make a huge difference in the final numbers.

Since this thread started I've been thinking about my own family and my mother was the only person in my family that died in assisted living. All of the others died at home or after a short stay in the hospital.  The level of care/assistance for all of them was minimal with the exception of my stepfather who paid for round the clock home care for the final two months of his life.  So in addition to my idea of self-insuring, I think I need to start thinking more like an insurance company and do everything I can to deny delay confuse and refuse for as long as possible.  I know it sounds like a joke but I'm serious about doing everything I can to remain on the outside looking in for as long as possible.

I also think of Lon, remember Lon?  He finally moved into an assisted living facility and found that his long term care insurance would not begin making payments until he met the insurance company's criteria of needing help with the activities of daily living for things like dressing, bathing, and using the bathroom.  Who's to say that he will ever meet the insurance company's definition?

IMO about all any of us can do at this point in our lives is think it through from best case to the worst case and make plans based on our own situation with the resources we have.

Good luck everybody!!!


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## Lethe200 (Jul 31, 2019)

Aunt Bea said:


> "....remember Lon?  He finally moved into an assisted living facility and found that his long term care insurance would not begin making payments until he met the insurance company's criteria of needing help with the activities of daily living for things like dressing, bathing, and using the bathroom. "



It's a shame that Lon misunderstood what he was buying. But that does not in itself invalidate the need for, or usefulness of, LTCi.

It should be noted that there are a large number of ADLs - however, for the purposes of the majority of LTCi, disability insurance, and SocSec disability, the major ADLs are:

*The five ADLs:*

*Bathing:* personal hygiene and grooming
*Dressing:* dressing and undressing
*Transferring:* movement and mobility
*Toileting:* continence-related tasks including control and hygiene
*Eating:* preparing food and feeding
Early on, LTCi and disability policies required a definition of being unable to perform *3 ADLs *as qualifying for benefits, following the SocSec guidelines at the time. When those guidelines changed to a definition of *2 ADLs, *the insurance industry followed suit.

Almost all insurers now define qualification as being unable to perform 2 of the 5 ADLs. Our LTCi policies are now 20 yrs old and qualification is 2 ADLs.

The reason we felt LTCi was necessary for us is that mortality is increasing fastest in the elderly, while morbidity is worsening proportionately. IOW, people are living longer, but with a declining quality of life. Western medicine can keep you alive for a very, very long time, regardless of how much one would like to "pop off" painlessly by just not waking up in the morning.

For example, a person may have completed a DNR. But if s/he falls on a public sidewalk and 911 gets called, the EMTs will do everything possible to save his/her life, *no matter what the DNR says.*

Based on statistics over the last 20 yrs, what happens to the elderly is that they *go in and out of convalescent (skilled nursing) care, then back in and out, in a repeating process. *But the full recovery is more fragile and tentative, more easily upset - hence the repeated admissions.

This is why Asst Lvg is considered merely an interim step. Since most people wait as long as possible before going into AL, it has been shown the average stay in AL before entering SN is _only two years! _

LTCi is for SN care, not for AL. AL did not exist when LTCi was first introduced as a product. As pointed out, families cared for elderly at home. This is no longer true; people who are divorced, people without or who have outlived their children and other family, may still (and probably will) need some sort of assistance as they age.

What can help for AL is having a *home healthcare rider on the LTCi. *One could go into an Independent Senior Living facility, for example, and enjoy the social environment, transportation, meals, and no housekeeping advantages. But when one starts to need help, the home healthcare rider can assist with paying for private care assistance, putting off the day when full Skilled Nursing Care is needed.

LTCi is used to protect financial assets. Having a partnership plan ensures there will be no unpleasant IRS surprises when non-partnership benefits paid out get added to the insured's yearly income. In the U.S., costs for Skilled Care facilities vary according to COL, but the average as of 2018 for 1 year of care in a private room is slightly over $100,000.

That cost is for the facility's fees, meals, housekeeping, and basic care. It does not include medications, surgeries, or specialist care.


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## Leann (Aug 1, 2019)

I've had a long-term care insurance policy for the past two years. I should have gotten it years ago when the premiums were more reasonable. Also, it's difficult to qualify for as we get older because there are so many health issues that can disqualify one from being eligible for a policy.


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## mathjak107 (Aug 1, 2019)

They can very strict on these policies...not only did we have to allow them to give us blood ,urine ,hiv and drug tests but they did memory testing as well ....


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## MeAgain (Aug 1, 2019)

Anyone here have a Reverse Morgage? is it worth it?


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## drifter (Aug 1, 2019)

No, no, I don't wanna go to a nursing home. I don't have long term care. I don't want to need it.
I want a heart attack while I am still viable and planning to live to 99 years and eleven months.
Forget the big one for now. I'm not ready yet. I'll let you know.


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## mathjak107 (Aug 1, 2019)

MeAgain said:


> Anyone here have a Reverse Morgage? is it worth it?


They are rarely worth it...they eat up equity way to fast and give you to little.   Most of the time all they do is postpone the inevitable for those who are low on money


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## StarSong (Aug 2, 2019)

MeAgain said:


> Anyone here have a Reverse Morgage? is it worth it?


A RM was a godsend for my mother.  It did NOT eat up her equity and the interest rate was reasonable.  When she died we sold her home (which we would have done anyway), paid back the RM, and her heirs received the rest.  

She owned her home for over 40 years and it increased dramatically in value over that time. Had it been sold before she died, the capital gains taxes would have eaten far, far more than the fees and interest incurred via the RM. 

RMs are like anything else: good for some folks, not so good for others. Examine your own circumstances and research, research, research!


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## StarSong (Aug 2, 2019)

I forgot to mention that because Mom's house was held in a trust, we paid zero probate fees, capital gains or other taxes on the inheritance.


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## OneEyedDiva (Aug 4, 2019)

I looked into LTC insurance and found it could be complicated and costs kept increasing. Moot point though because I was declined when applying via our state retiree system's group plan. Looking at other plans' criteria I realized I would be turned down by all of them due to preexisting conditions. So I beefed up my savings/investments for over the two decades I've been in retirement (and still doing so) in hopes that if I ever need it, I'll have enough to cover costs out of pocket like my uncle did (and he was in two or more years before passing). My Medicare plan does cover three months during each benefit period which certainly helps. A benefit period starts when one has been out of the nursing home for 60 days or more.  Since I'm living healthier, I hope never to need to go in, especially since N.J. has one of the highest nursing home costs in the nation.


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## Keesha (Sep 5, 2019)

This is a very informative thread. 
Over the past couple of months I’ve learned a lot about retirement homes and long term care facilities ; since my mom has her stroke. 

Here in Canada retirement homes are privately paid but long term care homes or nursing homes are 1/2 paid for by the government and 1/2 by the resident. If you can’t afford it the government pays it in full but they exhaust all sources first. 

We also have subsidized services for the elderly. 

It’s very difficult when one goes into hospital after a stroke and now needs long term care but the other one doesn’t want it. 

Does the government generally take the money from their accounts once they are incapacitated?  How do they find their accounts?

What if there is no POA for health?
What happens when the SDM gets incapacitated also?
Who makes the decisions then?


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## mathjak107 (Sep 6, 2019)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I looked into LTC insurance and found it could be complicated and costs kept increasing. Moot point though because I was declined when applying via our state retiree system's group plan. Looking at other plans' criteria I realized I would be turned down by all of them due to preexisting conditions. So I beefed up my savings/investments for over the two decades I've been in retirement (and still doing so) in hopes that if I ever need it, I'll have enough to cover costs out of pocket like my uncle did (and he was in two or more years before passing). My Medicare plan does cover three months during each benefit period which certainly helps. A benefit period starts when one has been out of the nursing home for 60 days or more.  Since I'm living healthier, I hope never to need to go in, especially since N.J. has one of the highest nursing home costs in the nation.


however in order for medicare to cover it for those 3 months you have to meet certain conditions as far as being hospitalized first .


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## StarSong (Sep 6, 2019)

Keesha said:


> This is a very informative thread.
> Over the past couple of months I’ve learned a lot about retirement homes and long term care facilities ; since my mom has her stroke.
> 
> Here in Canada retirement homes are privately paid but long term care homes or nursing homes are 1/2 paid for by the government and 1/2 by the resident. If you can’t afford it the government pays it in full but they exhaust all sources first.
> ...


I don't know anything about the Canadian medical system.  Wish I could be of help...


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## Keesha (Sep 6, 2019)

StarSong said:


> I don't know anything about the Canadian medical system.  Wish I could be of help...


No problem Starsong. Apparently neither do I. lol


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 7, 2019)

A friend once suggested I turn my assets over to my son and let Medicaid pay for a nursing home. I told him that makes no sense. Why would I let Medicaid be the deciding factor in a substandard home for me (because they certainly wouldn't pay for the best) when my healthcare quality, comfort and sanity are at stake? I want to have access to the best SNF possible.


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 7, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> however in order for medicare to cover it for those 3 months you have to meet certain conditions as far as being hospitalized first .


Oh believe me, I'm well aware MJ.  Went through the nursing home process with my mother and have kept up with it's rules and regulations ever since. In fact the benefit period I spoke of previously depends on discharge from the nursing home, then readmission to the hospital before another nursing home stay is required and it has to be more than 60 days after being discharged from the home.


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## OneEyedDiva (Nov 5, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> however in order for medicare to cover it for those 3 months you have to meet certain conditions as far as being hospitalized first .


Have you or any of your family members ever been admitted to a nursing home?  Besides my mom, several cousins, my godmother and an uncle spent from months to years there.  A couple of my cousins were my age range at the time (60's).


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## StarSong (Nov 5, 2019)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Besides my mom, several cousins, my godmother and an uncle spent from months to years there.


Wow!  That's a very long time to be in a SNF.  My mother, MIL and FIL spent some time in them, but none of their stints was longer than a few weeks.  Even the best of these places would be unpleasant after a while, not to mention extraordinarily expensive once Medicare stops picking up the tab.


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## OneEyedDiva (Nov 5, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Wow!  That's a very long time to be in a SNF.  My mother, MIL and FIL spent some time in them, but none of their stints was longer than a few weeks.  Even the best of these places would be unpleasant after a while, not to mention extraordinarily expensive once Medicare stops picking up the tab.


My uncle's granddaughter said he paid out of pocket and he was there more than a year.  My mother paid out of pocket for the first few months then had to go on Medicaid. The head of the accounts department schooled me on exactly what to do.  I was so glad she was able to stay in that facility. It was clean, had pleasant decor and they literally loved my mother, so took very good care of her. My godmother was in a less pleasant one for more than a year (I moved my mother from that one). I imagine she was also on medicaid. I'm in N.J. where nursing homes are among the most expensive in the country.  So I'm continuing to save and invest so if I have to go in I'll have the funds to do so.  I would never want Medicaid to choose what home I can go into.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Nov 5, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> very risky move , there is a 5 year look back ... the kids can be sued if creditors come after them for something  , as well as divorce between the kids can be a problem .
> 
> trusts are a whole other problem for the stay at home spouse .. plus what does a spouse do when you put all their money in your kids name ?


I think it's longer than 5 years now...in NYS


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## rgp (Nov 6, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Yeah, I can't see concerning myself with how to prepare, financially, for going into some facility that smells like Death's waiting room, where I'll sleep away the rest of my life, drooling on myself in a wheelchair in front of a TV tuned to who knows what channel, not that it'll make a difference. I'll take the alternative, no second thoughts needed.




  I agree but.....when do we know it is time to take the 'alternative' ? I mean, if one has a sudden medical emergency , they can well wind up in a home, by no choice of their own . They can holler & shout all they want, if med folks have them on the stretcher , their going in that home.......period.

If a person is deemed unable to be on their own/take care of themselves......that person goes where someone else decides.

LOL.......think I'll finish my coffee, and shoot myself......it's about the only way to "play it safe"........


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## mathjak107 (Nov 6, 2019)

Giantsfan1954 said:


> I think it's longer than 5 years now...in NYS


Still five years on look backs


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## mathjak107 (Nov 6, 2019)

Still five years on look backs


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## Creek Pirate (Jan 2, 2020)

"We have added years to life but not life to years" George Carlin


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## fmdog44 (Jan 2, 2020)

Nursing homes are as much of a home as a prison. No one gives a rats ass about you. You have no friends there. You have no relatives there. Everyone there is a stranger. "Welcome Home!" Not hardly.


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## Lethe200 (Jan 2, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Nursing homes are as much of a home as a prison. No one gives a rats ass about you. You have no friends there. You have no relatives there. Everyone there is a stranger. "Welcome Home!" Not hardly.



Maybe the ones you've visited. Not true for all of them. No complaints about the outstanding facility we moved my MIL to, nor the one we're considering for ourselves. 

It is very true, however, that it helps if you have someone to visit and help be your advocate. But frankly, that's just as much true for dealing with doctors and hospitals! We learned we had to go with MIL to appts. because she missed 80% of what was told to her, through a combination of bad hearing (despite hearing aids) and mild dementia.


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## StarSong (Jan 3, 2020)

My mother and FIL both lived out the last bits of their lives in Assisted Living and the costs were far lower than SNFs.  For at least several months before passing each needed assistance with bathing, dressing, transferring and toileting.  When they reached the ends of their lives, hospice care provided care in their AL apartments.   

These beautiful, modern AL facilities were professional, caring, modern communities, much more akin to a cruise ship than a hospital. If unable to remain in our home, AL would be DH & my choice for our last days,


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## Liberty (Jan 3, 2020)

StarSong said:


> My mother and FIL both lived out the last bits of their lives in Assisted Living and the costs were far lower than SNFs.  For at least several months before passing each needed assistance with bathing, dressing, transferring and toileting.  When they reached the ends of their lives, hospice care provided care in their AL apartments.
> 
> These beautiful, modern AL facilities were professional, caring, modern communities, much more akin to a cruise ship than a hospital. If unable to remain in our home, AL would be DH & my choice for our last days,


MIL lived in Assisted Living for years, then was forced to go to SNF for the rest of her years (almost 9), so its not always a clear cut choice.  We found that out.  Thought she would lie in the AL facility, but nope, not like that.


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## StarSong (Jan 4, 2020)

Liberty said:


> MIL lived in Assisted Living for years, then was forced to go to SNF for the rest of her years (almost 9), so its not always a clear cut choice.  We found that out.  Thought she would lie in the AL facility, but nope, not like that.


NINE YEARS IN A NURSING HOME?  Wow!  That's a scary long time.  What was her health condition, Liberty?


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## Liberty (Jan 4, 2020)

StarSong said:


> NINE YEARS IN A NURSING HOME?  Wow!  That's a scary long time.  What was her health condition, Liberty?


Hard to pinpoint her condition that put her there  except she did have osteoporosis  "bone on bone" in her shoulder and knee I think.  Was adverse to doing  basic exercise of any kind for as long as I knew her, and finally couldn't do those magic few steps after being in the hospital for a bowel operation. The criteria was the patient had to navigate the steps or they went to the SNC and not back in Assisted Living.  

She was in her right mind, but had sundowner's syndrome in the hospital for days as they had put her "too far under" with the anesthesia - always best to be put lightly under.  She had golden DNA.  Not what I sure call living, though.  She died in her mid 90's.


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## StarSong (Jan 4, 2020)

Liberty said:


> Hard to pinpoint her condition that put her there  except she did have osteoporosis  "bone on bone" in her shoulder and knee I think.  Was adverse to doing  basic exercise of any kind for as long as I knew her, and finally couldn't do those magic few steps after being in the hospital for a bowel operation. The criteria was the patient had to navigate the steps or they went to the SNC and not back in Assisted Living.
> 
> She was in her right mind, but had sundowner's syndrome in the hospital for days as they had put her "too far under" with the anesthesia - always best to be put lightly under.  She had golden DNA.  Not what I sure call living, though.  She died in her mid 90's.


Oh my.  What a nightmare for all concerned.


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## Liberty (Jan 4, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Oh my.  What a nightmare for all concerned.


Thank God for the good nursing home she was in.  So strange, the administrator "Shannon" came when MIL got admitted and left 9 years later when she died.  Good karma?

Learned a secret  about getting a loved one into the best nursing homes.  Wouldn't want to post it here, but if anyone wants to PM me, I'll tell them.  It is what it is, and like I said...we were so 
thankful for the good nursing home she was in all those years.


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