# Obama authorizes updating our nukes!



## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2014)

It seems that they are outdated, so with the Russian bear showing claws again along with threats from other nations and terrorist groups, it is wise not to fall behind.  Also, it provides work for a lot people.  Is Obama the new Dr. Strangelove?  I'll let you decide...


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2014)

Oh Gawd! Here we go again. :eek1:


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2014)

Yup, and a lot of those who love Obama now detest some of his policies...


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## Ms Sam (Sep 25, 2014)

I love our President for being thoughtful and for his taking our hand while walking us back into war.  But a different war, less boots more strategic air strikes.  
We cannot have crazy people beheading people..... It is vulgar.

Nukes .. Dust them off and give them a facelift.  ;-)


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2014)

Ms Sam said:


> I love our President for being thoughtful and for his taking our hand while walking us back into war. But a different war, less boots more strategic air strikes.
> We cannot have crazy people beheading people..... It is vulgar.
> 
> Nukes .. Dust them off and give them a facelift. ;-)



What I dislike about my fellow progressives is they take their ideology as carved in stone... Exactly like the Conservatives..  And we admonish the Conservatives for it.   What they don't see is that the world is fluid.   Things change.  We, fortunately elected a man that could change with it as circumstances demand.  He isn't making any rash moves.. and to the annoyance of the Hawks and Neocons... didn't react immediately, but strategized and built a coalition.  He had no choice.. unfortunately, but to counter this new and horrendous threat.

As for the Nukes..  WHO believed even 5 years ago that a Putin would surface and want to re-ignite the cold war.   What should our response be?  Sit back and let him rattle his sabre, re-establish the Soviet Union.. and face him with outdated and perhaps malfuntioning weapons?   

The Progressives who detest his policies need to stand back for a moment and imagine the world if we were NOT able to defend ourselves.. or if we were to let any despot or terror group have their way.


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## Debby (Sep 25, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> It seems that they are outdated, so with the Russian bear showing claws again along with threats from other nations and terrorist groups, it is wise not to fall behind.  Also, it provides work for a lot people.  Is Obama the new Dr. Strangelove?  I'll let you decide...




What, no mention of 'American claws'?  As I noted in another thread here, since WWII, 201 out of 248 conflicts have seen military operations being launched  by the US.  By comparison, Russia has been involved in about 19.  Unfortunately I can't find any record of which ones Russia started or was only involved in as a result of someone else starting it/them, but really the comparison is stark in it's implications.  201 compared to 19.  Who has claws?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

What's more this link:   http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/90-deaths-war-civilians.html   also points to the US accounting for 41% of the worlds total military budget while Russia accounts for 4.1%.  So who exactly is 'falling behind'?


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2014)

Yes.. debby... US = Bad.. I get your etiology, In the short time I've read your posts.. I get the picture.. However, lest you forget.. the US pulled many countries butts out of the fire.. Particularly one little island Kingdom BEGGING for the big bad powerful USA to come help.. umm.. somewhere around 1945 or so.. if memory serves me well.. Had we not.. not sure how Canada would have been affected today.. but.. hey.. Sprechen ze Deutsch?


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## Davey Jones (Sep 25, 2014)

RE:We cannot have crazy people beheading people..... It is vulgar.

I can assume this beheading has been going for hundreds of years on all parts of the globe and nobody complained.

Leaving it to the media and Facebook to glorify it today.There are quite a few out there that will pay or do anything to see the video of a actual beheading.
I suppose if they cut out the heart nobody would give a damn.


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## Debby (Sep 25, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> .......WHO believed even 5 years ago that a Putin would surface and want to re-ignite the cold war. .......






http://www.thenation.com/article/179579/cold-war-against-russia-without-debate


"Future historians will note that in April 2014, nearly a quarter-century after the end of the Soviet Union, the White House declared a new Cold War on Russia—and that, in a grave failure of representative democracy, there was scarcely a public word of debate, much less opposition, from the American political or media establishment....."

It should be noted that the woman who co-wrote the article that begins as above, has stellar credentials in the fields of journalism and politics and has written a book on the subjects as well as editing one.  The guy is a professor at both NYU and Princeton and he's written a couple of books on politics.  They see it apparently, a little differently than you and many others.


Note:  Just to add that the article is well written, very easy to read and lays out the progression of events in pretty much the way that I've come to believe.


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## Debby (Sep 25, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Yes.. debby... US = Bad.. I get your etiology, In the short time I've read your posts.. I get the picture.. However, lest you forget.. the US pulled many countries butts out of the fire.. Particularly one little island Kingdom BEGGING for the big bad powerful USA to come help.. umm.. somewhere around 1945 or so.. if memory serves me well.. Had we not.. not sure how Canada would have been affected today.. but.. hey.. Sprechen ze Deutsch?




And I'll happily give credit where credit is due Quicksilver. Like I've long said that if I ever got in trouble in a foreign country, I'd rather be an American citizen because your government seems to work for it's citizens in that scenario, whereas mine seems to make excuses for its inactivity.

But those good acts aren't going to pull the worlds butt out of the fire because the bad acts are escalating.  I already gave you a link to look at (Cold War Against Russia - Without Debate) and there are a great many people much smarter than I and who move in the realm of politics and politicians and such, and they are seriously worried.  And they also point to direct causation by the US.  

As to the rest of what you said, what little island kingdom?  Are you talking about Britain?  Because from what I understand, until Japan attacked the US in the Pacific in 1941, the US's only aid to Britain was only in the form of agricultural products and weapons and machinery because Britains industry couldn't produce what was needed as a result of being in the war which Britain entered in 1939.  The US's arrival on European soil was apparently in 1942 and according to one site I looked at, that came about because Hitler had declared war on the US in 1941 and not as a result of Britain 'begging' for help.  If I'm wrong on that, I'll be happy to make that adjustment.

Canada lost about 45,000 soldiers out of a population of 11 million and the US lost 407,000 out of a pop. of 131 million. We did our share.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2014)

I agree with you in that we should have stayed out of Europe in WWII.. It wasn't our problem..   Now Japan actually attacked us in Pearl Harbor.  That was an act of war against the US.. and justified the declaration. 

I believe we entered Europe in June of 1944 with the invasion of Normandy.  I find it hard to believe that Hitler declared war on us in 1941 and we waited until 1944 to enter Europe.  

I wasn't aware that Hitler declared war on the US..  never heard that..  could be wrong.. just never heard that he had.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2014)

Just found out that Hitler DID declare war on the US in 1941 after Pearl Harbor because we declared war on Japan.. who was Germany's ally.  Guess even Hitler recognized that allies are important..   Anyway.. we didn't get around to kicking his Heinie  until 1944..  We should have left him alone and not lost all those men.


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## Bee (Sep 25, 2014)

Germany declared war on the U.S. December 11th 1941.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2014)

Bee said:


> Germany declared war on the U.S. December 11th 1941.



See my above post bee...  I edited it..  Yes I know... because we declared war on Japan for the Pearl Harbor attack.. and Germany was an ally of Japan..


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## Vivjen (Sep 25, 2014)

So, Quicksilver, to sum up; US shouldn't have come to Europe at all, in WW2, and now you wonder why we haven't rushed to help in Iraq; although' we have had special forces there for a while; intelligence; aid flights...and the rest.

Every time we have rushed in recently; it has ended up worse than previously...


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> So, Quicksilver, to sum up; US shouldn't have come to Europe at all, in WW2, and now you wonder why we haven't rushed to help in Iraq; although' we have had special forces there for a while; intelligence; aid flights...and the rest.
> 
> Every time we have rushed in recently; it has ended up worse than previously...




Then perhaps Britain should stay out of it..


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm seeing a lot of quibbling over the past going on here. The past is dead but it still haunts the present.
We need to heed the lessons of the past, but it is the present that we must deal with.
Or at least, it is what our leaders must deal with. 

Heaven help them in that task because neither they, nor we, even with the lessons of the past in mind, can foretell the future.


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## Debby (Sep 25, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I agree with you in that we should have stayed out of Europe in WWII.. It wasn't our problem..   Now Japan actually attacked us in Pearl Harbor.  That was an act of war against the US.. and justified the declaration.
> 
> I believe we entered Europe in June of 1944 with the invasion of Normandy.  I find it hard to believe that Hitler declared war on us in 1941 and we waited until 1944 to enter Europe.
> 
> I wasn't aware that Hitler declared war on the US..  never heard that..  could be wrong.. just never heard that he had.






Hitler declared war on the US in 1941 and I've read that the US arrived in 1942 in the UK.  Prior to that, Japan had attacked the US in 1941 at Pearl Harbour.


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## Debby (Sep 25, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I'm seeing a lot of quibbling over the past going on here. The past is dead but it still haunts the present.
> We need to heed the lessons of the past, but it is the present that we must deal with.
> Or at least, it is what our leaders must deal with.
> 
> Heaven help them in that task because neither they, nor we, even with the lessons of the past in mind, can foretell the future.





The past has a multitude of lessons to teach that would aid in dealing with the present.  The problem is that when you bring information to the people, they refuse to look at it because doing so might necessitate an adjustment in understanding.  And human beings are ever reluctant to change.  Too often that only happens when they are forced.  And an abdication of our responsibilities as voters and citizens by laying it gratefully at the feet of our 'leaders (who) must deal with it' only allows them to go on and on, playing their games with our lives and our children's futures.  

I came across this article by a professor at Princeton and NYU.  Everyone needs to read this article and find out exactly who is 'running things in Ukraine'.  Those people that the American administration has chosen to support, in your names, are simply evil.  The first link is to the terrific article and the second is to a Youtube video of the 'rebels' that the US supported as they are burning down the Trade Union House in Odessa in May.  Forty six people were burned alive and any who tried to escape the building were cut down and mutilated by the crowd.  In the video, you will see women filling bottles with gas and rags and the explosions of fire at the windows of the building.  Fortunately for us, no visible burning people, etc., just the mob throwing molotov cocktails and shooting at the building.   These are the people who took over Ukraine's government and who are 'running' things now.  

http://www.thenation.com/article/180466/silence-american-hawks-about-kievs-atrocities


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKpJ1-ECpPg

And Dame Warrigal, if things continue as they are, World War 3 could very well be on its way.  And it wasn't Russia that started all of this.


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2014)

> And Dame Warrigal, if things continue as they are, World War 3 could very well be on its way.  And it wasn't Russia that started all of this.



I have similar misgivings and I agree that wars begin long before the declarations of war are issued.


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 26, 2014)

War and the threat of war has always been with us...


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## QuickSilver (Sep 26, 2014)

Even the Bible promises that.. war and rumor of war..

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all _these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
_
So it's ok..


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 26, 2014)

Hmm, must have heard that in Sunday school before I dropped out...


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## Debby (Sep 26, 2014)

I'm just curious to know if anyone read that linked article about the Atrocities of Kiev?  http://www.thenation.com/article/180...evs-atrocities

Anyone?  and if you did, has it influenced the way you think of this situation at all?


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## QuickSilver (Sep 26, 2014)

You REALLY REALLY love anything you can find to put America in a bad light.... Don't you ..lol!!!

No... It hasn't changed a thing for me...  the USA did not commit any atrocities...  IF.. and I mean IF it's true.. that's bad.. but doesn't mean the US condoned anything. What's your point anyway?  Just to bitch about the US?   You are sounding like a one hit wonder.

So I need to ask, not to be snarky.. but out of curiousity.. Are you a Communist?   If so that would explain your sympathetic feelings toward Putin, and would be more comprehensible to me..   If not then I have to assume you are just anti-American.. not unlike many citizens of the Crown.


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## oakapple (Sep 26, 2014)

ALL countries have things in the past [and some in the present] to be ashamed of.Sometimes we have to band together though to put down a greater evil. WW2 was one such time. The Muslim extremist threat is another.Here in the Uk we have never had the 'my country right or wrong' mentality and do accept that politicians often behave in a wrong way for a situation, however the ISIL problem needs ALL countries to do their bit to rid Iraq, Syria and anywhere else, before it grows out of control.We are glad that the US  continues to have a good relationship with the UK and long may it continue.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 26, 2014)

oakapple said:


> ALL countries have things in the past [and some in the present] to be ashamed of.Sometimes we have to band together though to put down a greater evil. WW2 was one such time. The Muslim extremist threat is another.Here in the Uk we have never had the 'my country right or wrong' mentality and do accept that politicians often behave in a wrong way for a situation, however the ISIL problem needs ALL countries to do their bit to rid Iraq, Syria and anywhere else, before it grows out of control.We are glad that the US  continues to have a good relationship with the UK and long may it continue.



And I'm sure it would surprise you to hear that the majority of Americans are NOT of the "My Country Right or Wrong" mentality either.  We have some pretty big battles here about policy and politics..  We are pretty divided right now in what the direction of America should be going.   BUT.... I think you will find that we are NOT very receptive to the constant carping and belittling of OUR country by foriegners... allies or not.   I know it grips the heck out of me.  Worry about your own faults and we will deal with ours.  It's not unlike any big family.. we can fight amongst ourselves.. and often do.. but outsiders need to be very careful..    I've noticed that the Brittish here are quick to take offense and defend Britain.. It' only natural..


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## Bee (Sep 26, 2014)

_*I've noticed that the British here are quick to take offense and defend Britain.. 

*_Only when the likes of you keep knocking us, which you have done a few times.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 26, 2014)

Bee said:


> _*I've noticed that the British here are quick to take offense and defend Britain..
> 
> *_Only when the likes of you keep knocking us, which you have done a few times.



As you sow... so shall you reap..


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## oakapple (Sep 26, 2014)

Rather bewildered by your post Quicksilver, as I was not attacking the US or taking offense about anything said about the UK.
Just remarking that we should stick together to rid ourselves of a common evil [ISIL.]Alo that all countries do things now and again that we are not proud of.We are not so patrotic here, [nobody puts a flag on their house] although I know not everyone in the US does either. We don't start the day with patriotic prayers or sayings either. Nothing wrong with any of that, just that we view our goverment with a bit of a jaundiced eye.Nobody should fall out on here becuase we are all different and view things from a differing perspective.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 26, 2014)

oakapple said:


> ALL countries have things in the past [and some in the present] to be ashamed of.Sometimes we have to band together though to put down a greater evil. WW2 was one such time. The Muslim extremist threat is another.Here in the Uk we have never had the 'my country right or wrong' mentality and do accept that politicians often behave in a wrong way for a situation, however the ISIL problem needs ALL countries to do their bit to rid Iraq, Syria and anywhere else, before it grows out of control.We are glad that the US  continues to have a good relationship with the UK and long may it continue.



I agree Oakapple, the powers that be in our countries have all done things past and present that we cannot be proud of.  I never had the my country right or wrong attitude, I am open-minded in learning about all that goes on by politicians and financial interests in America, good or bad.


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## Debby (Sep 26, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> You REALLY REALLY love anything you can find to put America in a bad light.... Don't you ..lol!!!
> 
> No... It hasn't changed a thing for me...  the USA did not commit any atrocities...  IF.. and I mean IF it's true.. that's bad.. but doesn't mean the US condoned anything. What's your point anyway?  Just to bitch about the US?   You are sounding like a one hit wonder.
> 
> So I need to ask, not to be snarky.. but out of curiousity.. Are you a Communist?   If so that would explain your sympathetic feelings toward Putin, and would be more comprehensible to me..   If not then I have to assume you are just anti-American.. not unlike many citizens of the Crown.




No I don't like doing this because I'd rather we had a world where there is peace and respect for one another and a willingness to get along and no countries had to worry that some other group was going to lay waste to their lands.    But I think it's critical that we the voters don't close our eyes to the abuses of any of our governments.  Apparently you don't share the same opinion.  Governments are there to SERVE THE PEOPLE not their rich and powerful friends.  What do you think the Occupy Movement was all about?  The fact that you can read the links that I've supplied (???) and not have any issues with the American governments meddling and manipulations is a tragedy.  It's an ongoing tragedy for the civilians of Syria, Ukraine, Iraq, Libya.....and if things continue the way the US is pushing Russia, it may very well be a tragedy for the world if and when WW3 begins.

And while the US might not be shooting at those burning people in the Odessa massacre,  they support that group of individuals with money, aid and whatever, so they are morally culpable.  From the article:  "...How intimately involved US officials have been in Kiev’s “anti-terrorist operation” is not known, but certainly the administration has not been discreet. Before and after the military campaign began in earnest, Kerry, CIA director John Brennan and Vice President Joseph Biden (twice) visited Kiev, followed, it is reported, by a continuing flow of “senior US defense officials,” military equipment and financial assistance to the bankrupt Kiev government. Indeed, *American “advisers” are now “embedded” in the Ukrainian Defense Ministry*. Despite this essential support, the White House has not compelled Kiev to investigate either the Odessa massacre or the fateful sniper killings of scores of Maidan protesters and policemen on February 18–20, which precipitated Yanukovych’s ouster...."http://www.thenation.com/article/180466/silence-american-hawks-about-kievs-atrocities


Do you know what I did this morning?  I sent off four emails to my government.  Three of them were to do with some rabbi who is best bud's with our Foreign Affairs Minister, John Baird, who saw to it that even though the Rabbi's little community centre didn't meet the 'strict' criteria needed in order to get grants, he got the $1,000,000.00 check  that he asked for anyway.  What's more, the project apparently didn't even meet safety standards, nor was it up to snuff as far as their project plans and financial disclosure was concerned.  I complained to my government about that because those are my dollars being handed out to his cozy little group of friends and it's not right that government 'friends' get preferential treatment.  (Oooh, do we smell a good reason for the Occupy Movement in this scenario?).  Three departments heard from me on that one.  The other one had to do with the very atrocities that Kiev has and is perpetrating against the Ukrainian civilians over the past year or so.  I communicate with my government.  Do you?  Ever?   (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...project-of-bairds-dear-friend/article4106544/  Conservatives take VERY good care of their friends don't they?)

And no Quicksilver, I am not a Communist.  But I am a human being on this planet and I read constantly, with an open mind and a willingness to learn.  And what your country does comes back to bite the world on the butt if it isn't righteous so I bring it to the attention of people because like I said to you once before, WE are the only brakes those bozo's have.


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## Debby (Sep 26, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I agree Oakapple, the powers that be in our countries have all done things past and present that we cannot be proud of.  I never had the my country right or wrong attitude, I am open-minded in learning about all that goes on by politicians and financial interests in America, good or bad.




I absolutely love that you've said what you said SeaBreeze.  Like I have said recently to someone else here, we the people, are the brakes of the politicians and if we don't work (communicate and hold their feet to the fire), we are letting our country and the world down.


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## Debby (Sep 26, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> And I'm sure it would surprise you to hear that the majority of Americans are NOT of the "My Country Right or Wrong" mentality either.  We have some pretty big battles here about policy and politics..  We are pretty divided right now in what the direction of America should be going.   BUT.... I think you will find that we are NOT very receptive to the constant carping and belittling of OUR country by foriegners... allies or not.   I know it grips the heck out of me.  Worry about your own faults and we will deal with ours.  It's not unlike any big family.. we can fight amongst ourselves.. and often do.. but outsiders need to be very careful..    I've noticed that the Brittish here are quick to take offense and defend Britain.. It' only natural..




You know, when the old adage of 'America sneezes and the whole world catches a cold' is no longer a useful phrase, then no one will care what your country does.  But the truth of the matter is that your economic and military and energy and food policies do affect the world, sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad, and if the US is going to 'manage' the other countries as they go, then you better get used to 'foreigners' criticizing.  And in turn, you can criticize my government for their abysmal stance on the environment and dirty oil and ignoring science to the detriment of the entire planet.  You don't even need my permission (although I give it willingly) because frankly that is your responsibility too.  After all, you live on this planet and have to drink the water and breath the air.


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## Debby (Sep 26, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> And I'm sure it would surprise you to hear that the majority of Americans are NOT of the "My Country Right or Wrong" mentality either.  We have some pretty big battles here about policy and politics..  We are pretty divided right now in what the direction of America should be going.   BUT.... I think you will find that we are NOT very receptive to the constant carping and belittling of OUR country by foriegners... allies or not.   I know it grips the heck out of me.  Worry about your own faults and we will deal with ours.  It's not unlike any big family.. we can fight amongst ourselves.. and often do.. *but outsiders need to be very careful*..    I've noticed that the Brittish here are quick to take offense and defend Britain.. It' only natural..




Don't mean to be snarky here, but why should we be careful?  Will you bomb us?


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## QuickSilver (Sep 26, 2014)

Debby said:


> Don't mean to be snarky here, but why should we be careful?  Will you bomb us?



Of COURSE you don't mean to be snarky... who would EVER THINK THAT.   Yes Debby.. I personally will bomb you.. I will rent a flippin F16 and bomb you.   Do you not see how silly your comment is?   If you were unable to ascertain the context of the entire paragraph.. then I really don't know what to tell you.  Other than you have proven my point perfectly.


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## Debby (Sep 26, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Of COURSE you don't mean to be snarky... who would EVER THINK THAT.   Yes Debby.. I personally will bomb you.. I will rent a flippin F16 and bomb you.   Do you not see how silly your comment is?   If you were unable to ascertain the context of the entire paragraph.. then I really don't know what to tell you.  Other than you have proven my point perfectly.




Guess your 'kidding' detector is not working QuickSilver.  I was joking you know.

You need to relax a bit.


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## Debby (Sep 26, 2014)

Seriously though Quicksilver, I'd like to take a minute to just tell you that I appreciate that you've been willing to listen and chat a wee bit about all of this stuff.  Once upon a time, I might have had the same reactions if someone had engaged in criticism's of my government.  But to your credit, you've not just abandoned the thread as some might.  So kudo's to you and I hope you have a nice evening and weekend!  It's Friday and time to chill right?  Have a good one.

Also to all the folks, I'd like to apologize if I've offended anyone with my zeal.  My only excuse is that I feel the world is in perilous times and I wouldn't feel good about myself if I was silent and something terrible happens.  And if nothing terrible happens, then the jokes on me I guess right?  Anyway, sorry to all.


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