# Good ole days without internet and cable.....



## fancicoffee13 (Oct 1, 2020)

Seems like the good ole days were when we focused on our neighbors, friends and loved ones more when we weren't so "fast paced" with the internet and all those upscale violent shows on now to influence the rest of our kids.  Plus, the television went off at the count down at about 10 pm!


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## macgeek (Oct 1, 2020)

I was at a traffic light the other day, 3 people in the car next to me. all staring at their phones. I'm glad I grew up in a time before phones took over.


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## Don M. (Oct 1, 2020)

The Internet, IMO, is the best piece of technology that has become commonplace in recent years.  The wealth of information on the Net, and the online shopping is great.  TV, however, seems to have descended into little more than endless commercials....and shows aimed at a 14 yr. old mentality.  
And then, there are cell phones....I hope that today's younger people, especially, wake up and realize that there is a lot more to life than texting and tweeting.


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## hellomimi (Oct 1, 2020)

I miss those days we ride bikes in the neighborhood, play tag, hopscotch, drew grafitti on walls ( hey dad! I confess it was me). We got a few board games but we had more fun playing outside with other kids. Dad taught us to play chess and he gave special treats when we beat him, though very rare. He said knowing how to play chess sharpens ones mind. I miss my childhood when life was simple.


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## Sassycakes (Oct 1, 2020)

*I wish the kids today had the happy care free days that I had. Most of the Mom's were stay at home Mom's and they all looked out for the kids in the neighborhood. We had a certain bedtime and we always had dinner time with the family all sitting and talking about our day. Sadly because of the circumstanses of today most Mom's have to work to make ends meet.  *


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## Ruth n Jersey (Oct 1, 2020)

I was just thinking about all these electronic gizmos while packing for a trip we are about to take. It seems it took me an extra half hour finding the case for my laptop, making sure I have the charger for my phone, little camera and also my Kindle which I have music on so the hubby and I can listen to it in the car. 
I guess it would be easier to just leave the whole mess at home but I suppose slowly but surely I have become hooked on these gadgets. 
I don't have a smart phone so I guess that would eliminate all these extra wires and such but I don't adapt easily to this new technology. 
At my age I'll keep what I have and be happy.


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## Colleen (Oct 1, 2020)

I was born in 1946 and grew up in a time that was less dangerous to be a kid. We use to ride our bikes every where without any fear of being kidnapped...or worse. We played simple games. We walked to school. We went to church and Sunday School. We had holiday's with family. We ate together at every meal. Life was so much simpler for kids. There was the occasional bully in school but not like today. We watched 3 channels on our small screen black and white tv and listened to the radio. We had one telephone that had a 5-digit number. Little did I realize that I was living in the best time ever.


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## Lewkat (Oct 1, 2020)

Well, I was born in 1933 and I am happy we got a refrigerator before WWII broke out.  Even though we had a washing machine, with the rollers on it, my grandmother still used a scrub board for stubborn stains.  But, when I do look back at some of the simpler things, I feel ever so sorry for today's youth.  We used a great deal of imagination during our play times.  I would have loved the internet in high school and college, but all those hours of research in libraries didn't kill me.  My son's next door neighbor has a 16 yr. old son who doesn't move outside.  Just plays video games when he's not in school.  Been doing that for years.  What a shame.  Kids today are all in organized sports.  Pick up games in my day were the greatest.  We had a tv in 1945 as my mother won it.  It was boring then and even worse today.  I like the cell phone for when I leave home.  Yes, I miss the good old days of good music and nice dancing as well.  But, don't tell today's kids what they are missing for you'll become a laughing stock, so I keep our precious little secret.


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## Irwin (Oct 1, 2020)

In my day, we didn't have mass shootings with AR-15s. Killers stalked their victims -- sometimes for months! And killings went on for years -- not just for a few hours! What has this world come to?


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 1, 2020)

I think that it's possible to have the best of both worlds but if for some reason it's not I'll take the internet over the nostalgia.


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## officerripley (Oct 1, 2020)

Sassycakes said:


> *I wish the kids today had the happy care free days that I had. Most of the Mom's were stay at home Mom's and they all looked out for the kids in the neighborhood. We had a certain bedtime and we always had dinner time with the family all sitting and talking about our day. Sadly because of the circumstanses of today most Mom's have to work to make ends meet.  *


Then there were those of us who grew up in neighborhoods with mostly stay-at-home Moms but ours wasn't & there was constant questioning or teasing about "Why does your Mom work?! Ladies don't work after they get married; only daddies work! What's *wrong* with your family?!" So although I would've love to have had happy care free days, didn't happen; I think that's why I can understand why today's young ones escape into their phones so much; I did & still do a lot of escaping into TV & books & now the internet.


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## Sassycakes (Oct 1, 2020)

officerripley said:


> Then there were those of us who grew up in neighborhoods with mostly stay-at-home Moms but ours wasn't & there was constant questioning or teasing about "Why does your Mom work?! Ladies don't work after they get married; only daddies work! What's *wrong* with your family?!" So although I would've love to have had happy care free days, didn't happen; I think that's why I can understand why today's young ones escape into their phones so much; I did & still do a lot of escaping into TV & books & now the internet.




*Some Mother's had to work because of their situation. My Dad took a second job so my Mom could stay home. My parents also only had 3 kids and by the time I was born my older brother was 13yrs older then me and he had a job working after school. My sister was 2yrs old when I was born,so things weren't as hard for my parents like it was for some others. I wish your days could have been as carefree as mine were. I feel I was very lucky and sadly some others weren't as lucky.*


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## Fyrefox (Oct 6, 2020)

Before Internet and cable in the 1960's, I can remember walking and biking places before being of driving age to see and commune with a friend.  We'd play and trade 45 rpm records, play cool FM radio stations out of NYC for the latest music parents wouldn't appreciate, and snicker over MAD magazine or the latest cool or uncool happenings at school.  You could roam around freely and safely in those days, and schools hadn't been converted into locked fortresses to defend against gun nuts.  TV was just in the living room and parental bedroom, so I'd check books out of the library and read to fill in the empty hours...


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## asp3 (Oct 6, 2020)

Sassycakes said:


> *I wish the kids today had the happy care free days that I had.*



I was born in the late 50's and I would say that my days weren't happy and care free.  The duck and cover drills we did starting in first grade and then later the air raid sirens that used to be tested the last Friday of the month reminded me of the threat of nuclear annihilation that was part of my childhood.  Also as I was a younger teen the threat of having to go to a war I didn't believe in because of the draft system also took away from an overall care free nature of my time.

I'm thankful that those risks are greatly reduced, but unfortunately they've been replaced by other threats.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 6, 2020)

We used to gather around the kitchen table or sprawl ourselves out on the living room floor to play old-fashioned board games, and we played regularly, as a family, with friends.

We'd have popcorn night in our house, which was special, and if we were lucky, there was a bottle of Coke in the pantry to go along with.

We went for Sunday afternoon car rides.

Mealtimes meant family, where everyone was at the table, and dovetailing into meals at the table, mom would always put on a special Sunday night supper, even if it wasn't fancy.

People entertained friends and family in their homes over a pot of coffee, a pot of tea, maybe some good old-fashioned home-baking, and always great conversation.

People gardened and grew their own veggies and things, because rather than frittering away their days and time on a cell phone and the internet, they applied their time in more constructive ways.

I remember renting movies or gathering in the living room and watching a show on television (as a family).

Kids could be both seen and heard when I was growing up. We tobogganed, played tag, hide-&-seek, played cowboy-&-Indians, rode our bikes all around, went to the park to play and swim, we played crocket, set up badminton nets and played for hours at a time, we played catch, Frisbee, Lawn Darts, and a whole host of other old-fashioned games. We were always busy doing something or another, unlike today where children are seldom seen or heard.


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## Rosemarie (Oct 6, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I was born in the late 50's and I would say that my days weren't happy and care free.  The duck and cover drills we did starting in first grade and then later the air raid sirens that used to be tested the last Friday of the month reminded me of the threat of nuclear annihilation that was part of my childhood.  Also as I was a younger teen the threat of having to go to a war I didn't believe in because of the draft system also took away from an overall care free nature of my time.
> 
> I'm thankful that those risks are greatly reduced, but unfortunately they've been replaced by other threats.


There has always been the threat of war, whatever age you lived in. Britain has also had to live with the threat of invasion, which has happened several times and is still happening now.
These days, we have lost our freedom and privacy. We can't even speak our minds.  All those science fiction writers of the past have turned out to be right.


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## Damaged Goods (Oct 6, 2020)

I feel sorry for the kids today.  Despite their gadgets, gizmos, and phones that do everything but cook their lunch, they don't seem as happy as the kiddos of my day. (1944 War Baby)


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 6, 2020)

Damaged Goods said:


> I feel sorry for the kids today.  Despite their gadgets, gizmos, and phones that do everything but cook their lunch, they don't seem as happy as the kiddos of my day. (1944 War Baby)


Or even my era... the 1960's era.


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## asp3 (Oct 6, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> There has always been the threat of war, whatever age you lived in. Britain has also had to live with the threat of invasion, which has happened several times and is still happening now.
> These days, we have lost our freedom and privacy. We can't even speak our minds.  All those science fiction writers of the past have turned out to be right.



I agree that war has always been a possibility but until the nuclear age I don't think it's been as immediate and as deadly to civilians as standard war.  Both are horrible, but I find nuclear weapons to have more of an immediate existential threat as opposed to war or invasion where one would likely have some warning of an impending invasion and would potentially be able to take actions to help one continue to live.

I see that there is more freedom of speech now than in the past and the ability to associate with members of one's own "tribe" than one had in the past.  The oppression of those who were not normal (gays, lesbians, trans, etc...) has been greatly reduced.

I also do agree that there is more information about us available to others but if I want to have privacy I can have it.  I just have to know that if I want that privacy it can't be achieved with any of the modern conveniences that we use today.


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## Sassycakes (Oct 6, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I was born in the late 50's and I would say that my days weren't happy and care free.  The duck and cover drills we did starting in first grade and then later the air raid sirens that used to be tested the last Friday of the month reminded me of the threat of nuclear annihilation that was part of my childhood.  Also as I was a younger teen the threat of having to go to a war I didn't believe in because of the draft system also took away from an overall care free nature of my time.
> 
> I'm thankful that those risks are greatly reduced, but unfortunately they've been replaced by other threats.



*I remember  when I was in grade school having to sit under our wooden desks to protect us from nuclear bombs. Thinking back what protection was that,none. I had a much older brother He was 13yrs old when I was born and  was drafted during the Korean war and how worried I was for his safety. I guess there will always be threats,but I feel so sad for the threats facing the world today especially the children. *


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 6, 2020)

officerripley said:


> Then there were those of us who grew up in neighborhoods with mostly stay-at-home Moms but ours wasn't & there was constant questioning or teasing about "Why does your Mom work?! Ladies don't work after they get married; only daddies work! What's *wrong* with your family?!" So although I would've love to have had happy care free days, didn't happen; I think that's why I can understand why today's young ones escape into their phones so much; I did & still do a lot of escaping into TV & books & now the internet.


Yup, my mom and dad worked, I was a latchkey kid before it was popular.  But I was not teased, what happened at home stayed at home.  Keep your mouth shut or die.  Yup.


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## Packerjohn (Oct 6, 2020)

Don M. said:


> The Internet, IMO, is the best piece of technology that has become commonplace in recent years.  The wealth of information on the Net, and the online shopping is great.  TV, however, seems to have descended into little more than endless commercials....and shows aimed at a 14 yr. old mentality.
> And then, there are cell phones....I hope that today's younger people, especially, wake up and realize that there is a lot more to life than texting and tweeting.


Unfortunately, many people are addicted to their phones.  There is going to be a lot more mental health issues in the future.  You can't live without talking to people face to face to have a long lasting meaningful relationship.  Going to sleep with a phone is not the same as cuddling up with a nice warm gal/guy!


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## Furryanimal (Oct 6, 2020)

So today I have ‘spoken’to ‘friends’ I have never met and probably never will in Dubai and Ukraine.And haven’t seen any of my neighbours or spoken to anyone in days.That’s progress!
And I’m watching the Marlins at the Braves in my Welsh living room courtesy of satellite TV!Couldn’t have done that thirty years ago!


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## 911 (Oct 6, 2020)

I liked having the computer, faxes, cell phones, etc. for work, but now, I find them to be a distraction at times.

If I really wanted to, I know that I could do without these gadgets.


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## fmdog44 (Oct 6, 2020)

I hate cell phones not because of what they are rather, because people worship them and cannot walk or blink without them.  I often wonder what family life is like now. Do the kids come home and run to the bedrooms to go online with their computers and play with their phones? Then come out for dinner then retreat back to their "tech" bedrooms never talking to their parents who are eating with one hand and holding their phones with the other?


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## Irwin (Oct 6, 2020)

I love being able to look at people's reviews of products on the internet before I buy something. Manufacturers are no longer able to sell crap and get away with it. Restaurants and stores are no longer able to remain in business when they treat their customers like crap or rip them off.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> I hate cell phones not because of what they are rather, because people worship them and cannot walk or blink without them.  I often wonder what family life is like now. Do the kids come home and run to the bedrooms to go online with their computers and play with their phones? Then come out for dinner then retreat back to their "tech" bedrooms never talking to their parents who are eating with one hand and holding their phones with the other?


How nice that would be, kids who run to their bedrooms, to use computers etc. and never talk to their parents.  Instead of kids that run into the house, drop their backpacks on the floor, and, while running out the door, yell I’m going to whoever’s house they are going to.

Wait.  Where?  If they don’t show for dinner, the parent starts the call list, locating the little darlings, getting them home for dinner, homework, lectures, chores, baths etc.  Saturday is for activity.  Talking happens on Sundays.  What world do you live in?


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## katlupe (Oct 7, 2020)

I think it is up to the parents and how much time on the phones or computers they let the kids have. My mother worked so my brother and I would come home from school to an empty house. Did it hurt us? Nope. We changed our clothes, had a snack and went outside to play. We did not even think about turning on the television. We wanted to be outside. Our family did things together on the week-ends. Like spending the day fishing, boating and swimming since we lived in FL then. We did not go to tourist attractions or get restaurant food. My mom always packed a picnic. 

My BF's great-grandson is in kindergarten and he has been using a tablet and cellphones his whole life. He is very fast on it and can do all sorts of things. At a family party this year, there were a lot of children and not one was on a phone. They were playing games together including some of the adults in the yard. Screaming, yelling, being kids and having a great time. Later some of the adults were having a paintball battle. You have to put out an effort to do other things with them instead of just telling them to go outside and play. His great-granddaughter is now joining her father and him racing radio controlled cars and she is only 12. 

I would not want to give up technology. Especially now since I can't go a lot of places or see people in person so much. It would be boring if I did not have a computer. I don't care about the phone so much.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 7, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> *I hate cell phones not because of what they are rather,* *because people worship them and cannot walk or blink without them*.  I often wonder what family life is like now. Do the kids come home and run to the bedrooms to go online with their computers and play with their phones? Then come out for dinner then retreat back to their "tech" bedrooms never talking to their parents who are eating with one hand and holding their phones with the other?


Well put.

If it's any indication on what I have observed in the past at restaurants, where entire family units are seated and not a word is spoken between any of them, because they all have their noses stuck in their cell phones, or how I have had to brake for pedestrians crossing streets, because they had their noses stuck in their cell phones and were oblivious to the world around them, then I'm guessing the same holds true in their homes.

The one that infuriates me to the nth, is sitting at a stop light and looking over at the vehicle next to you and seeing someone on their cell phone. There should be a snitch line for such.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 7, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> I hate cell phones not because of what they are rather, because people worship them and cannot walk or blink without them.  I often wonder what family life is like now. Do the kids come home and run to the bedrooms to go online with their computers and play with their phones? Then come out for dinner then retreat back to their "tech" bedrooms never talking to their parents who are eating with one hand and holding their phones with the other?



Agreed.  It isn't the technology itself, so much as how people choose to use (or abuse it) that can create the issues being discussed.

Not related to the poster I quoted, but instead to the idea of the good old days...

My theory about nostalgia is that it is because we know what happened in the end, since we survived and are still here to look back on those days.  What we don't like, and are uncomfortable with, is not knowing what will happen, and that is what living is, whether we like it or not.  I don't know who is going to win the upcoming election, or what the winner will do.  I don't know if the economy is going to recover once medical science addresses COVID-19 and we can finally come out from hiding.  But then, I don't know if that will even happen at all.  It is only looking back at a time that we already know the ending of, that we can relax and look for the good in it.

I am grateful that I was not an adult in the 1960s because I can easily understand now what it looked like to adults back then.  The music was an assault on the ears of those accustomed to listening to skilled musicians.  There was the generation of their kids actively revolting in the streets and tearing down all the social structures of the society our parents knew.  There was the war between the government and the people over Vietnam.  There were uprisings from all manner of groups, the women's movement,  civil rights, the gay liberation, etc. etc.  All the "rules" were changing and the result was a sea of change so big that nothing was moored in the past that our parents grew up in.

At least with WWII, the nation was largely involved in the effort together, both those in combat and at home.  All wars since have only involved a relatively small portion of the nation and have been the subject of division at home.  We are still going through a huge sea of change and don't have benefit of social moorings that we all agree on to provide any modicum of stability because all of that was torn down in the 1960s and was never replaced with something newer/better at all.

If we look at the course of human history, all of what I describe is nothing new.  The difference is that we are living through it, rather than reading about it in a history book from a safe distance.  As has always happened between generations, there are those who, 20 years from now, will look on the current times with some sort of nostalgia as the "good old days" in the face of whatever changes are occurring then.  It is an ever-repeating cycle that is human nature.

Tony


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## Chet (Oct 7, 2020)

In the past we were connected to the world around us, that being the world "immediately" around us like community, friends and family. Social media and TV throw in our faces crap that matters little if anything at all to you and I don't care what people I don't know are doing. I don't want a smart phone just a phone that is a phone like my flip phone.


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## hellomimi (Oct 7, 2020)

I'm one of those not attached to their cellphones. I've left my cellphone at home a couple of times and realized I didn't even miss it. The one's who were texting and/or calling me were vexed. With this said, though I have to go back to keeping a directory of important phone numbers, I'll thrive without cellphones.


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## ClassicRockr (Oct 7, 2020)

Well, first of all, those "good old days" of the family "thing" of Leave It To Beaver and The Nelson's are long gone. Actually, that was TV, not so much of real life. 

Today, there are moms and dads that take their career very, very seriously and have to "put in the hours" to support the lifestyle the family has. If the father can do it, the mother can stay at home with kid/kids. But, that definitely takes the father's income to do that. In the tv show, Undercover Boss, it is well noted just how many hours a week an Executive or Boss has to work. There are those that leave for work before the family even gets up and gets home when the family is already in bed. 

Then, there are those that only work a 7AM to 3:30PM or 8AM to 6PM job, are home every night, with weekends off. 

As far as the computer goes, wife and I absolutely LOVE ours. The computer sure made our jobs much, much easier. Hers in Accounting/Finance and mine in Purchasing/Inventory Management. We both had to do our jobs on a typewriter and books years ago. No computers when I was in the Navy during Vietnam. 

Cell phones.........sure beats the heck out of looking for a payphone and hoping to have the correct change to make the call. Then, needing a stack of quarters to make a long-distance call. Having to pull off of a freeway or highway to make a call. No thanks!


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## tbeltrans (Oct 7, 2020)

I remember my dad commenting that those TV shows back then often had various nuances that would be lost on kids but were intended for adults.  I think "Leave It To Beaver" was one of those.  That phrase that June (?) used to say to Ward "Don't be too hard on the Beaver" was a case in point.  Completely different meaning as an adult than as an innocent kid.  I do believe such lines were intentional and the writers probably got a big kick out of getting such lines past the censors.

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Agreed.  It isn't the technology itself, so much as how people choose to use (or abuse it) that can create the issues being discussed.
> 
> Not related to the poster I quoted, but instead to the idea of the good old days...
> 
> ...


Again it seems like people either don’t know history or are trying to rewrite what happened.  While I’ve forgotten more than I remember, I remember WWII as being filled with “concentration camps” in the US for our Japanese citizens.  Those citizens lost their properties, their businesses, and some their lives.  I don’t believe they were compensated for any of it.

We did not willingly join the fight against the Germans until Pear Harbor, or thereabouts.  We let, yes let, the Jewish race be slaughtered, in mass by our late entrance into the war.  Then refused a lot of the Jewish people entrance in our country.  But we did willingly take in Nazi war criminals after the war and hid them.

I could go on.  But I won’t.  You can google all of this.  But pull together?  Nope, we didn’t pull together during WWII.  We were, as Americans always are, pulling for our own best interest, doing extremely shameful things, and worried about the almighty dollar.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 7, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Again it seems like people either don’t know history or are trying to rewrite what happened.  While I’ve forgotten more than I remember, I remember WWII as being filled with “concentration camps” in the US for our Japanese citizens.  Those citizens lost their properties, their businesses, and some their lives.  I don’t believe they were compensated for any of it.
> 
> We did not willingly join the fight against the Germans until Pear Harbor, or thereabouts.  We let, yes let, the Jewish race be slaughtered, in mass by our late entrance into the war.  Then refused a lot of the Jewish people entrance in our country.  But we did willingly take in Nazi war criminals after the war and hid them.
> 
> I could go on.  But I won’t.  You can google all of this.  But pull together?  Nope, we didn’t pull together during WWII.  We were, as Americans always are, pulling for our own best interest, doing extremely shameful things, and worried about the almighty dollar.



I was not trying to rewrite history and I do know history, so please just stop with that and say what you have to say.  In short, let's respect each other and not make negative assumptions.  I have seen other folks do this from time to time (not to me as this poster did), but whenever people pull this sort of stunt in a forum, it never goes well.  Why not just read the post and possibly ASK the quoted poster what his or her intentions were and THEN proceed to respond, in short just be kind to one another and seek to understand rather than judge.

My intention was not to write the history of WWII.  Such a post would be far too large to place here.  What I did intend was to highlight that very small aspect that fit in with my points.  None of what I said was wrong, but I suppose by some stretch you could say I was "lying by omission" IF you didn't read the rest of my post and comprehend the point I was making (context).

I am sorry to see this sort of thing here because I thought (hoped) this forum was different from what I have seen elsewhere.  I dropped out of other forums I have been in, and will certainly do so here if this is how folks are treated.  I am at an age in which I can choose what I want in my life, and this is certainly not it.

Edit: You can also google and find that America did also pull together, with many volunteering for the military, women working in the factories, many people volunteering their time at home for the war effort.  In short, there were many things going on in the country at the time, enough to encompass what both of us have commented on here.  So I am not saying that you and those who liked your post are wrong, but am only asking for more discussion and less assuming.  I think such discussion would be far more interesting and productive than blasting away at each other.  Please remember that there is always more than one way to look at most anything.  We each simply took different pieces of the subject, you to attack me, and me to illustrate a point.

Tony


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## Lewkat (Oct 7, 2020)

I grew up in the 30s and 40s and was an adult by the mid 50s.  Life was simpler, but during WWII we had air raids or black outs as we called them.  Little did the average person know that the Germans could did not have the air power to reach our shores.  And that was cut off in the Pacific once Pearl Harbor was attacked.  I could as a young girl go anywhere I liked safely since there were so many service men around, no one dared touch me.  I certainly knew what was going on in the world as my father was insistent that I pay attention to the news via papers and radio.  Plus, every time we went to see a movie, a news reel was shown before the feature.  Our play time was ours and no adults interfered which was as it should be.  It was a good time and even young adulthood was just fine.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 7, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> I grew up in the 30s and 40s and was an adult by the mid 50s.  Life was simpler, but during WWII we had air raids or black outs as we called them.  Little did the average person know that the Germans could did not have the air power to reach our shores.  And that was cut off in the Pacific once Pearl Harbor was attacked.  I could as a young girl go anywhere I liked safely since there were so many service men around, no one dared touch me.  I certainly knew what was going on in the world as my father was insistent that I pay attention to the news via papers and radio.  Plus, every time we went to see a movie, a news reel was shown before the feature.  Our play time was ours and no adults interfered which was as it should be.  It was a good time and even young adulthood was just fine.



I have gotten different personal perspectives from those who lived in that time too.  I have known a number of folks who served in the military during the war, those in combat and those behind the lines, a few who served in Korea and even Vietnam.  When those with that insight talked about their experiences, one thing they all seemed to agree on was that they felt their country was behind them in WWII, and that element was missing from successive wars.  My mother had similar experiences as you describe during WWII.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there were many aspects to life during any of these times, and therefore room for many vastly different memories for those who lived through them.

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I was not trying to rewrite history and I do know history, so please just stop with that and say what you have to say.  In short, let's respect each other and not make negative assumptions.  I have seen other folks do this from time to time (not to me as this poster did), but whenever people pull this sort of stunt in a forum, it never goes well.  Why not just read the post and possibly ASK the quoted poster what his or her intentions were and THEN proceed to respond, in short just be kind to one another and seek to understand rather than judge.
> 
> My intention was not to write the history of WWII.  Such a post would be far too large to place here.  What I did intend was to highlight that very small aspect that fit in with my points.  None of what I said was wrong, but I suppose by some stretch you could say I was "lying by omission" IF you didn't read the rest of my post and comprehend the point I was making (context).
> 
> ...


I have seen, on this forum, when someone disagrees with someone’s opinion the poster proclaims they are being “attacked”, that the poster lacks comprehension, and that they are a victim.  Thus attacking the person they claimed attacked them.  Whatever.

You were not attacked, you were disagreed with.  I never claimed you lied by omission or otherwise.  We obviously have different views.  What I did was, disagree with you, as I still do.  And, if I disagree in the future with you, I will.

You are right, you can stay or leave.  This is a senior forum, we are all older.    Do what you want, but if you have been on several forums and had the same issue, I would say it’s your issue, not mine.

My grandfather served in WWI and WWII.  My grandmother served in WWII and my most precious possession is a picture of her in her WAC uniform with a picture on the wall behind her of my father, in uniform.  He was in the Army/Airforce.   My stepfather served in the Army and participated in the opening of one of the first concentration camps.  My uncle was at Peal Harbor when it was bombed.

Numerous family served during WWII.  Some volunteered, some were drafted.  All served.  Supported yes, pulling together no.  I don’t need to google about WWII,   I heard about it from the people who served.

But, ask our Japanese’s citizens, our black citizens, our indian citizens, our German citizens, and other citizens that I may have missed, if they felt “we pulled together” during WWII.  Let me know.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 7, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I have seen, on this forum, when someone disagrees with someone’s opinion the poster proclaims they are being “attacked”, that the poster lacks comprehension, and that they are a victim.  Thus attacking the person they claimed attacked them.  Whatever.
> 
> You were not attacked, you were disagreed with.  I never claimed you lied by omission or otherwise.  We obviously have different views.  What I did was, disagree with you, as I still do.  And, if I disagree in the future with you, I will.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the response.  When your opening line is "Again it seems like people either don’t know history or are trying to rewrite what happened. ", you are making assumptions about me that are not true.  That is insulting.  You can certainly disagree without being insulting.  I hope you can understand the difference.

I am not disagreeing with your facts at all, but instead pointing out that there were many different experiences from that, or any period.  My experiences during the 1960s, for example, are vastly different from that of my parents.

I am a Vietnam combat veteran and though I did not have conversations with senior officers while in the service, I did afterward.  I got perspectives from them as serving in the military during WWII and contrasting those experiences with their experiences in Korea and Vietnam.  The discussions were veteran to veteran, a discussion you would not have unless you actually served, and in combat.  I don't doubt or argue with your facts, but instead am presenting still other experiences that are equally true.

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I have gotten different personal perspectives from those who lived in that time too.  I have known a number of folks who served in the military during the war, those in combat and those behind the lines, a few who served in Korea and even Vietnam.  When those with that insight talked about their experiences, one thing they all seemed to agree on was that they felt their country was behind them in WWII, and that element was missing from successive wars.  My mother had similar experiences as you describe during WWII.
> 
> As I mentioned in a previous post, there were many aspects to life during any of these times, and therefore room for many vastly different memories for those who lived through them.
> 
> Tony


As for Vietnam, my husband, as many here know, was a combat marine in Vietnam.  I served in the army during the vietnam era as did my brother.  So, yup, I interacted with tons of active duty personnel during this time period and after the war.

No one remarked on if they felt supported during the war itself.  Those concerns came later, much later.  These vets all volunteers and more loyal to the USA than anyone.

My husband, and I, were at Camp Pendleton when the Vietnam people were moved onto the camp.  These Vietnamese had to have MP’s surrounding their housing and lived within walking distance of us.  The marines were not pleased.  So I know about this directly.

Btw, what branch of service did you service in and when?  You don’t need to answer of course.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 7, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> As for Vietnam, my husband, as many here know, was a combat marine in Vietnam.  I served in the army during the vietnam era as did my brother.  So, yup, I interacted with tons of active duty personnel during this time period and after the war.
> 
> No one remarked on if they felt supported during the war itself.  Those concerns came later, much later.  These vets all volunteers and more loyal to the USA than anyone.
> 
> ...



As long as we can respect each other in disagreeing (or agreeing), I am certainly interested in getting to know you and your views on things.  By the way, thank you for your service.

Other forums I left, not because I was personally attacked, but instead because of the fighting and hatred and disrespect people have been showing toward each other in our current political climate.  I don't need that in my life.  That has nothing to do with anything that happened in this thread, but instead I felt so much more peace leaving those forums, that I now clearly see where I have choices; and that is what I was commenting on.

Nobody that I have talked to felt supported during the Korean conflict (called the "forgotten war") or Vietnam, so I have no disagreement with you.  As to your comment regarding Camp Pendleton, I have no knowledge of the events you mentioned, and my default stance is to accept what you said and respect that you have that knowledge.

I was in the Army and in Vietnam 71-72 in Long Khanh and Tay Ninh provinces.

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Thanks for the response.  When your opening line is "Again it seems like people either don’t know history or are trying to rewrite what happened. ", you are making assumptions about me that are not true.  That is insulting.  You can certainly disagree without being insulting.  I hope you can understand the difference.
> 
> I am not disagreeing with your facts at all, but instead pointing out that there were many different experiences from that, or any period.  My experiences during the 1960s, for example, are vastly different from that of my parents.
> 
> ...


Oh,gosh, good thing I served so I could have those veteran to veteran discussions.  

Since I don’t know you, I have no ideal what might insult you or not insult you.  But feeling insulted is different from being insulted.  So if you FEEL you have been insulted I, of course, apologize.  It’s not like I said you lacked comprehension-.  Or the ability to talk veteran to veteran.    Or you made untrue assumptions about ME.  

I don’t need combat experience to talk to a combat veteran, or even service experience.  Veterans want someone who LISTENS.  I once sat in a hospital ER, as an older non-threatening woman, and spoke with a young combat veteran about his drinking problem.  This took no experience, but it did take ears.

Anyway, whatever.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> As long as we can respect each other in disagreeing (or agreeing), I am certainly interested in getting to know you and your views on things.  By the way, thank you for your service.
> 
> Other forums I left, not because I was personally attacked, but instead because of the fighting and hatred and disrespect people have been showing toward each other in our current political climate.  I don't need that in my life.  That has nothing to do with anything that happened in this thread, but instead I felt so much more peace leaving those forums, that I now clearly see where I have choices; and that is what I was commenting on.
> 
> ...


As you said to me, google about Camp Pendleton.


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## Lewkat (Oct 7, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Again it seems like people either don’t know history or are trying to rewrite what happened.  While I’ve forgotten more than I remember, I remember WWII as being filled with “concentration camps” in the US for our Japanese citizens.  Those citizens lost their properties, their businesses, and some their lives.  I don’t believe they were compensated for any of it.
> 
> We did not willingly join the fight against the Germans until Pear Harbor, or thereabouts.  We let, yes let, the Jewish race be slaughtered, in mass by our late entrance into the war.  Then refused a lot of the Jewish people entrance in our country.  But we did willingly take in Nazi war criminals after the war and hid them.
> 
> I could go on.  But I won’t.  You can google all of this.  But pull together?  Nope, we didn’t pull together during WWII.  We were, as Americans always are, pulling for our own best interest, doing extremely shameful things, and worried about the almighty dollar.


We joined the fight against Germany during WWII because Hitler declared war on us.  We certainly did pull together during WWII, I lived during that time and we had camps for the Japanese and Germans alike.  They were not concentration camps, but I will say not at all what they enjoyed before the war.  We have made reparations to those families for their lost homes.    We did not let the Jewish people get slaughtered as you seem to think.  We did no know about it till close to the end of the war.  Yes, the leaders did, but FDR was trying to keep us out of it all.  There was one ship that was turned away from our shores with the Jews aboard.  Can you name all the Nazi war criminals we took in after the war and hid.  Werner Von Braun was brought in during the war and if he did not agree to our terms he'd have been tried and convicted for his rocketry systems.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 7, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Oh,gosh, good thing I served so I could have those veteran to veteran discussions.
> 
> Since I don’t know you, I have no ideal what might insult you or not insult you.  But feeling insulted is different from being insulted.  So if you FEEL you have been insulted I, of course, apologize.  It’s not like I said you lacked comprehension-.  Or the ability to talk veteran to veteran.    Or you made untrue assumptions about ME.
> 
> ...



My apologies if I put you off.  I didn't know if you are or are not a veteran until your next post, but am glad that I left room for either case in my post.  I can't assume and won't know either way until you tell me.   So I didn't make assumptions about you.  I left it either way in my post.  I do believe there are experiences veterans share that those who never served can't.  I don't see that as a "put down", but instead an observation.  I also believe that combat veterans do have different experiences than those who never saw combat. It doesn't make them somehow superior or better in any way, but instead similar to somebody growing up on a farm as compared to somebody growing up in a big city.  It is simply different experiences. That is where I found the discussions with those who saw combat in all three wars particularly revealing - because we had similar experiences and therefore a similar frame of reference.

I believe there is something in my choice of wording in my posts that you take exception to, based on your response here.  If I can know what it is, I will try to change it and word what I say differently because I see your response as being to something I honestly did not intend.

Tony


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## tbeltrans (Oct 7, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> We joined the fight against Germany during WWII because Hitler declared war on us.  We certainly did pull together during WWII, I lived during that time and we had camps for the Japanese and Germans alike.  They were not concentration camps, but I will say not at all what they enjoyed before the war.  We have made reparations to those families for their lost homes.    We did not let the Jewish people get slaughtered as you seem to think.  We did no know about it till close to the end of the war.  Yes, the leaders did, but FDR was trying to keep us out of it all.  There was one ship that was turned away from our shores with the Jews aboard.  Can you name all the Nazi war criminals we took in after the war and hid.  Werner Von Braun was brought in during the war and if he did not agree to our terms he'd have been tried and convicted for his rocketry systems.



Thank you!

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> We joined the fight against Germany during WWII because Hitler declared war on us.  We certainly did pull together during WWII, I lived during that time and we had camps for the Japanese and Germans alike.  They were not concentration camps, but I will say not at all what they enjoyed before the war.  We have made reparations to those families for their lost homes.    We did not let the Jewish people get slaughtered as you seem to think.  We did no know about it till close to the end of the war.  Yes, the leaders did, but FDR was trying to keep us out of it all.  There was one ship that was turned away from our shores with the Jews aboard.  Can you name all the Nazi war criminals we took in after the war and hid.  Werner Von Braun was brought in during the war and if he did not agree to our terms he'd have been tried and convicted for his rocketry systems.


I disagree with some of what you say, and agree with some of what you say.  But I’m not really interested in discussing WWII.  You can google for the Nazi war criminals brought into the US.  However, remember that any Germans allowed in, while they might not be war criminals, they were Nazis.

I thought there were German camps as well, but couldn’t remember.  Call them what you like, it was wrong, it was illegal, it was unconstitutional, and it was shameful.  FDR knew, others knew, we let the Jewish people get slaughtered, IMO, by our non-action and went to war anyway.

In modern times, we have let, and do let, other populations get slaughtered by our failure to act.  We only act when forced or if something is in our best interest.  Mortally wrong, but it is what it is.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

Ok, I googled it which you could have done.  But from what I found10,000 Nazi criminals, and up to 40,000 or more Nazi collaborators.  This does not include the ordinary German citizens who were Nazis as well.

Very few Jewish survivors in comparison.  Feel free to goggle it yourself and disagree.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> My apologies if I put you off.  I didn't know if you are or are not a veteran until your next post, but am glad that I left room for either case in my post.  I can't assume and won't know either way until you tell me.   So I didn't make assumptions about you.  I left it either way in my post.  I do believe there are experiences veterans share that those who never served can't.  I don't see that as a "put down", but instead an observation.  I also believe that combat veterans do have different experiences than those who never saw combat. It doesn't make them somehow superior or better in any way, but instead similar to somebody growing up on a farm as compared to somebody growing up in a big city.  It is simply different experiences. That is where I found the discussions with those who saw combat in all three wars particularly revealing - because we had similar experiences and therefore a similar frame of reference.
> 
> I believe there is something in my choice of wording in my posts that you take exception to, based on your response here.  If I can know what it is, I will try to change it and word what I say differently because I see your response as being to something I honestly did not intend.
> 
> Tony


Well, you wrote that I was assuming things about you that were not true, I wasn’t.   I had
no assumptions about you, still don’t.  Why would I or anyone make assumptions about someone on a blog?  That would be silly.

Then you assumed I wasn’t a veteran because, I am a woman.  Seems you assume a lot of things.  I did basic at Fort McClellan, plus specialized training, there.   Then Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indiana for more training.  Then ENT Air Force base, (Cheyenne Mountain actually).  Almost lost the arm because it was salute, salute, salute.  Ugh.

And finished at a fort in Southern California. OMGosh, forgot the name.  It was in the city were Hell’s Angels hung out, where the ship, queen mary was put.  . I’ll wake up tonight and remember.  

You still seem to think that I can’t understand what a combat vet goes through even though I am married to one for over 48 years.  The wives of combat vets may not know the details of what happened but we sure know the results.

Don’t change anything you wrote.  It’s no big deal.  WWII was a long time ago.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 7, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, you wrote that I was assuming things about you that were not true, I wasn’t.   I had
> no assumptions about you, still don’t.  Why would I or anyone make assumptions about someone on a blog?  That would be silly.
> 
> Then you assumed I wasn’t a veteran because, I am a woman.  Seems you assume a lot of things.  I did basic at Fort McClellan, plus specialized training, there.   Then Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indiana for more training.  Then ENT Air Force base, (Cheyenne Mountain actually).  Almost lost the arm because it was salute, salute, salute.  Ugh.
> ...



It seems to me that there are some misunderstandings here about what I actually wrote and what my intentions are.  I tried to clarify, but clearly didn't express myself very well.  We could continue going around and around on this, but I honestly don't want to.  I think I have learned enough here to know when to bow out of engaging you in discussion.

I apologize for my part in this issue and will try to avoid it in the future.

Thanks,

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> It seems to me that there are some misunderstandings here about what I actually wrote and what my intentions are.  I tried to clarify, but clearly didn't express myself very well.  We could continue going around and around on this, but I honestly don't want to.  I think I have learned enough here to know when to bow out of engaging you in discussion.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tony


Yup, I agree.  We can discuss something else at a different time.  I might even agree with you.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 7, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Yup, I agree.  We can discuss something else at a different time.  I might even agree with you.



I sincerely hope so.  I think we got off on the wrong foot and were missing the intent and context of what each other were saying (at least I hope that was the case for you about what I wrote).

By the way, I have a younger sister who was in the Army in Germany.  I would not assume that because a person is a woman that she was not a veteran, and I did not intend to imply or directly say that at all.  

Tony


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## Lewkat (Oct 7, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I disagree with some of what you say, and agree with some of what you say.  But I’m not really interested in discussing WWII.  You can google for the Nazi war criminals brought into the US.  However, remember that any Germans allowed in, while they might not be war criminals, they were Nazis.
> 
> I thought there were German camps as well, but couldn’t remember.  Call them what you like, it was wrong, it was illegal, it was unconstitutional, and it was shameful.  FDR knew, others knew, we let the Jewish people get slaughtered, IMO, by our non-action and went to war anyway.
> 
> In modern times, we have let, and do let, other populations get slaughtered by our failure to act.  We only act when forced or if something is in our best interest.  Mortally wrong, but it is what it is.


I don't have to Google it Aneeda.  We brought scientists here who were avowed Nazis and if they did our bidding in helping us win the war, they would not be prosecuted.  There has been rumors of alleged Nazis living in the U.S. from Germany since WWII.  Alleged is the key word here.  But, yes, we do have Nazis here and they've been here even before the war broke out.  We, as a nation, did not allow the Holocaust.  We, as a nation, were not aware of its occurring until little by little some, with relatives in the U.S. were able to smuggle letters out.  A few letters did not raise the ire of our population.  When our soldiers came across the camps, they didn't even know what they were.  However, Eisenhower and his staff did.  Roosevelt did know, we are aware of that.  But, if you'd been around, you'd know that the voters in this country did not want us to enter WWII under any circumstances and Congress agreed.  It wasn't until Pearl Harbor, and then Hitler declaring war on us that our hand was forced.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 7, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> I don't have to Google it Aneeda.  We brought scientists here who were avowed Nazis and if they did our bidding in helping us win the war, they would not be prosecuted.  There has been rumors of alleged Nazis living in the U.S. from Germany since WWII.  Alleged is the key word here.  But, yes, we do have Nazis here and they've been here even before the war broke out.  We, as a nation, did not allow the Holocaust.  We, as a nation, were not aware of its occurring until little by little some, with relatives in the U.S. were able to smuggle letters out.  A few letters did not raise the ire of our population.  When our soldiers came across the camps, they didn't even know what they were.  However, Eisenhower and his staff did.  Roosevelt did know, we are aware of that.  But, if you'd been around, you'd know that the voters in this country did not want us to enter WWII under any circumstances and Congress agreed.  It wasn't until Pearl Harbor, and then Hitler declaring war on us that our hand was forced.


Yes, I did say Pearl Harbor forced us into war.  We can disagree about the Holocaust.  I was born at the end of the war, but, as you know, it was alive for the vets long after it was over.  My uncle, PTSD, never recovered which is why the war came up more often probably.  He was very odd and kept hidden away.  A wasted life, so sad.

My stepfather had nightmares for the rest of his life.  WWII Veterans, IMO, were worst off than any other veterans because the visibly injured were expected to stay out of sight, and PTSD was not really recognized.

When my “girlfriends”husband entered the VA, there were WWII veterans there who had never left.  It was so sad.  The internet would have given them a life outside the VA hospitals.  The internet is a good thing for people who are truly shut in.


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