# Are All Men Looky-Loos?



## SandyR (Sep 18, 2022)




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## SandyR (Sep 18, 2022)

SandyR said:


>


Seems that way to me...


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## Nathan (Sep 18, 2022)

Men are visual, it's programmed into the male psyche.


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## Nathan (Sep 18, 2022)

SandyR said:


> Seems that way to me...


The women's fashion designers have capitalized on that trait, for a long time.


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## deaver (Sep 18, 2022)

and if we were not looky loos you would not have a hubby  or even a boyfriend if we can not look. I know of a young lady who missed a chance because she did not let the fella know she was unattached. sit like a bump on a log and not be noticed? then say well I was sitting right here......


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## Alligatorob (Sep 18, 2022)

SandyR said:


> Are All Men Looky-Loos?


Yeah, pretty much, some are more discrete than others though.

I enjoy looking at women, pretty much all women, admittedly some a little more than others.  Not too discriminating, I find most women attractive.

Actually I enjoy looking at and watching people in general, other men too, but I am thinking different things then...


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## SandyR (Sep 18, 2022)

Nathan said:


> Men are visual, it's programmed into the male psyche.


Lol…. And vice versa


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## Alligatorob (Sep 18, 2022)

Nathan said:


> The women's fashion designers have capitalized on that trait, for a long time.


Not the case in Saudi Arabia!  In the time I spent there I could tell nothing about what a woman in a full burqa looked like underneath, nothing but maybe height...  Couldn't tell an 80 year old from 18.

Some of the guys I worked with called them walking garbage bags, I didn't but did get their point.

Be grateful most women can choose more revealing clothing, not hard.


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## win231 (Sep 18, 2022)

I don't like to form an opinion unless I study all viewpoints.
In detail.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 18, 2022)

SandyR said:


> Lol…. And vice versa


Good to know, wouldn't want to think we were alone in this!


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## Shalimar (Sep 18, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Not the case in Saudi Arabia!  In the time I spent there I could tell nothing about what a woman in a full burqa looked like underneath, nothing but maybe height...  Couldn't tell an 80 year old from 18.
> 
> Some of the guys I worked with called them walking garbage bags, I didn't but did get their point.
> 
> Be grateful most women can choose more revealing clothing, not hard.


Walking garbage bags? Sheesh.


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## Bella (Sep 18, 2022)

*"Are All Men Looky-Loos?"*

Yes, they are. I've been known to appreciate the male physique as well. There's nothin' wrong with getting an eyeful!


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## Alligatorob (Sep 18, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> Walking garbage bags? Sheesh. Nineteen fifty needs its attitude back.


I agree, but after looking at hundreds, probably thousands of them...  

And it's more like the 1100s or so, not the 1950s!


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## Pepper (Sep 18, 2022)

The Saudi women are so beautiful that if a man saw one it would drive him to rape or he would die.  
Therefore, for the good of all.....................


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## Mr. Ed (Sep 18, 2022)

I appreciate all women, some attract me more than others.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 18, 2022)

Pepper said:


> The Saudi women are so beautiful that if a man saw one it would drive him to rape or he would die.


Yep, that's pretty much all that saved me!

Once when bored a few of us decided to try and sneak into a woman only beach.  Saudi women can swim, but still have to be wearing the full burqa.  Apparently the religious police didn't approve of our attempt at attending the wet burqa show and ran us off.


Bella said:


> I've been known to appreciate the male physique as well. There's nothin' wrong with getting an eyeful!


Not at all, enjoy yourself girl!


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## Beezer (Sep 18, 2022)

Worst pick-up line...

You look so different up close than through binoculars!


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## Lavinia (Sep 18, 2022)

Pepper said:


> The Saudi women are so beautiful that if a man saw one it would drive him to rape or he would die.
> Therefore, for the good of all.....................


Men are so weak they cannot control themselves....even the sight of a woman's hair is enough to make them lose it.


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## Bella (Sep 19, 2022)

Pepper said:


> *The Saudi women are so beautiful that if a man saw one it would drive him to rape or he would die.
> Therefore, for the good of all.....................*





Lavinia said:


> *Men are so weak they cannot control themselves....even the sight of a woman's hair is enough to make them lose it.*


Oh,_ puh..leeze._ 

Pepper was being facetious. If that was truly the case, I would've been jumped every time I left the house! And inside, I'd have time for nothing else because I'd be constantly getting jumped by my husband, who just couldn't resist my flowing waist-length hair!


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## Lawrence (Sep 19, 2022)

Yep-Uhu-Uhu us guys definitely have looky loo eyes. Like the guy who sees a woman who has had Botox facial treatment and says "Wow you must be having an allergic reaction, you should go see a doctor about that."


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## oldpop (Sep 19, 2022)

I have always enjoyed sitting on Broad Street and watching the traffic.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 19, 2022)

My grandfather told me that when he was a teenager they used to go into Atlanta to watch women get off the street car.  Sometimes they were able to see bare ankles!


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## Pappy (Sep 19, 2022)

I hope so…


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## Pepper (Sep 19, 2022)




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## StillLearning (Sep 19, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> My grandfather told me that when he was a teenager they used to go into Atlanta to watch women get off the street car.  Sometimes they were able to see bare ankles!


My grandmother described how they would rip out the stitching on the hem of skirts to scrub because they would get so dirty getting dragged in dirt. Then re-hem. Then there were the fingerless gloves and also never leave house without your sun bonnet. What would they think of us now?


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## Della (Sep 19, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> Men are so weak they cannot control themselves....even the sight of a woman's hair is enough to make them lose it.


Yes, I guess that's what St. Paul had in mind when he said women should cover their hair in church.

Which reminds me.  My sister-in-law belongs to a Christian dance group.  A group of pretty young women, wear their white silky dresses and dance at the front of the Church.  I feel like a jerk suspecting that some of the men in the congregation might be thinking unchristian thoughts.

What do you wise ones think?


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## Mr. Ed (Sep 19, 2022)

Question for the women. Do you approve or disapprove of men looking at you?
Is it true women always knows where a man's eyes are?


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## feywon (Sep 19, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Not the case in Saudi Arabia!  In the time I spent there I could tell nothing about what a woman in a full burqa looked like underneath, nothing but maybe height...  Couldn't tell an 80 year old from 18.
> 
> Some of the guys I worked with called them walking garbage bags, I didn't but did get their point.
> 
> Be grateful most women can choose more revealing clothing, not hard.


While i can't imagine actual Muslim men being this outspoken with their 'lascivious'  thoughts in a public place, this Key & Peele skit makes a point that being males, they'd be visual too and find something to fetishize over.  And in a way it pokes fun at men anywhere in the world that make just walking down a public street a challenge for women sometimes. (So glad to old enough to be subjected to it anymore.)

This comic duo always been outrageous and danced around the border of funny and offensive. So apologies in advance.


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## feywon (Sep 19, 2022)

Della said:


> Yes, I guess that's what St. Paul had in mind when he said women should cover their hair in church.
> 
> Which reminds me.  My sister-in-law belongs to a Christian dance group.  A group of pretty young women, wear their white silky dresses and dance at the front of the Church.  I feel like a jerk suspecting that some of the men in the congregation might be thinking unchristian thoughts.
> 
> What do you wise ones think?


i'd be curious to know who picked that design for their costumes.   While they are not that provocative as dance costume go,  i wouldn't expect this in any mainstream type church, temple etc.


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## HazyDavey (Sep 19, 2022)

Yup, Guilty as charged. 
Planning on committing another crime spree today ..


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## carouselsilver (Sep 19, 2022)

feywon said:


> And in a way it pokes fun at men anywhere in the world that make just walking down a public street a challenge for women sometimes. (So glad to old enough to be subjected to it anymore.)


Yes! About ten years ago I told a friend that I couldn't wait to actually look my age because then I wouldn't be harassed when walking down the street. She, being an extrovert and very flirtatious, was amazed that I didn't like being objectified that way. I do understand that men are wired to look, but what I objected to was comments and catcalls when I walked by.


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## feywon (Sep 19, 2022)

carouselsilver said:


> Yes! About ten years ago I told a friend that I couldn't wait to actually look my age because then I wouldn't be harassed when walking down the street. She, being an extrovert and very flirtatious, was amazed that I didn't like being objectified that way. I do understand that men are wired to look, *but what I objected to was comments and catcalls when I walked by.*


Me, too...especially when they are in packs, it emboldens them.  Have had a couple of hairy incidents over the decades. Including once in NYC where a man broke from a pack under store lights at a corner (i was on way home from 2nd shift job) and came towards me.  He was clearly drunk, so i gave benefit of doubt the first time he shifted direction to be heading straight for me.  But when i stepped to side and he did too, blocking my path, barely a 12-18 inches from me, i looked him dead in the eyes and said in a calm, firm  voice "Get the *hell* out of my way!".  To my surprise and relief he did.  His companions laughed, but as i got close to the corner they moved closer to the storefront and made no eye contact with me. i was 19-20 yrs old at the time.


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## Michael Z (Sep 19, 2022)

It is possible for a woman to dress attractively, yet modestly. Too bad this is not done more often as I think it is a win-win for all parties involved.


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## Nathan (Sep 19, 2022)

carouselsilver said:


> Yes! About ten years ago I told a friend that I couldn't wait to actually look my age because then I wouldn't be harassed when walking down the street. She, being an extrovert and very flirtatious, was amazed that I didn't like being objectified that way. I do understand that men are wired to look, but what I objected to was *comments and catcalls when I walked by.*


They were just publisizing their single digit IQs in case that would give them an edge.


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## Della (Sep 19, 2022)

I worked in the Pentagon's credit union for years and I felt like all 10,000 regulars were my customers, so I spoke and smiled to everyone.  One day I passed an area of construction work and heard a man say something to me so I stopped and said I was sorry I hadn't quite heard what he said.  He turned read and told me he had said, "It must be nice."  I have a feeling it was much worse than that.


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## amwassil (Sep 19, 2022)

As @Nathan said previously, we're hard wired. And women of child-bearing age are hard wired to encourage it. If instead our ancestors had evolved to ignore each other we wouldn't be here. The pool would have evaporated long ago. Men never lose interest as long as we still have viable sperm - and many of us even after. Post-menopausal women drop out of the competition simply because they're more useful as grandmothers helping their daughters ensure their offspring survive. This doesn't excuse rude behavior. Although rude behavior is in the eye of the beholder. Men try to impress each other with braggadocio that to women may seem rude. We eventually learn that courtesy and respect are more effective to attain our objective.


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## lew (Sep 19, 2022)

Have a good looking lady pass a group of men working and it will look like a pack of Meerkats peeking out of their holes and looking around.


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## SandyR (Sep 19, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Yep, that's pretty much all that saved me!
> 
> Once when bored a few of us decided to try and sneak into a woman only beach.  Saudi women can swim, but still have to be wearing the full burqa.  Apparently the religious police didn't approve of our attempt at attending the wet burqa show and ran us off.
> 
> Not at all, enjoy yourself girl!


Amen!


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## horseless carriage (Sep 19, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Not the case in Saudi Arabia!  In the time I spent there I could tell nothing about what a woman in a full burqa looked like underneath, nothing but maybe height...  Couldn't tell an 80 year old from 18.




Back in the 70's, when I was doing some work for
Zamil bin Wotsit, never could get my tongue around
his name, we called the Arab women who wore the 
traditional black, long gown called: the abaya,
Guinness Bottles.


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## Lavinia (Sep 19, 2022)

feywon said:


> i'd be curious to know who picked that design for their costumes.   While they are not that provocative as dance costume go,  i wouldn't expect this in any mainstream type church, temple etc.


They remind me of Graecian dresses.... attractive but not really appropriate for church.


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## grahamg (Sep 19, 2022)

I somehow feel I should have a lot to say about the thread topic, but feel reluctant as I've said it all before unfortunately.

What a fix to be in,......, I think I once posted a few photographs of fine examples, so I've even done that,.........., but then again another look wouldn't harm I suppose, (as it happens I'm quite put off by all the posing, expressions, and bulges in most examples, so here is an innocent looking "sweet as apple pie one"!):


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## Serenity4321 (Sep 19, 2022)

Nathan said:


> The women's fashion designers have capitalized on that trait, for a long time.


What I found fascinating about fashion designers was originally they were demanding very slim figures so that there would be more attention on their clothes, not the model's bodies. Then the norm for attractive became skinny women


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## Alligatorob (Sep 19, 2022)

Della said:


> suspecting that some of the men in the congregation might be thinking unchristian thoughts.


How could you say such a thing?  Shocking!


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## Alligatorob (Sep 19, 2022)

carouselsilver said:


> About ten years ago I told a friend that I couldn't wait to actually look my age because then I wouldn't be harassed when walking down the street.


Looking your age doesn't mean you don't look good, and won't be looked at.


carouselsilver said:


> I do understand that men are wired to look, but what I objected to was comments and catcalls when I walked by.


Understandable, that is not good behavior.    I know it happens, but I don't think most men do that, not to strangers.

I look a lot, but have never commented or catcalled, except to women I knew well and was sure they would take it well.


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## senior chef (Sep 19, 2022)

SandyR said:


> Lol…. And vice versa


I disagree.  Women, for the most part, pay little attention to how men are dressed, or their build.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 19, 2022)

StillLearning said:


> My grandmother described how they would rip out the stitching on the hem of skirts to scrub because they would get so dirty getting dragged in dirt. Then re-hem. Then there were the fingerless gloves and also never leave house without your sun bonnet. What would they think of us now?


Around half of them would think they'd gone to Heaven. And probably all but the slowest of the other half would run to the nearest Nordstrom or whatever.


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## senior chef (Sep 19, 2022)

Nathan said:


> The women's fashion designers have capitalized on that trait, for a long time.


Exactly !  A sizable percentage of women wear tight fitting/revealing clothing. Around here, many, many women wear pants so tight, it looks as if they have been melted and poured into their pants. To say nothing about low cut revealing blouses.


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## David777 (Sep 19, 2022)

Had only previously heard the term "*looky-loos*" a few times on radio traffic reports as another slang term for rubber neckers, those inconsiderate curious drivers that cannot resist driving slowly past anything along roads like accidents, police vehicles, and anything else that backs up traffic.  Like when they reach an annoying highway bottleneck, they cause the bottleneck to continue for everyone behind them they apparently don't care about.  So as someone not on any post smartphone social media where such is likely rampant, looked the slang term up and notice like many who think using such terms is socially cool, they are also quick to co-opt use in other ways never intended.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lookie-loo
_US, informal + often disparaging
: a person who looks at something: such as a : a person who goes somewhere or stops to look at something (such as the scene of an accident) : an intrusively curious onlooker —usually plural_

So in @SandyR 's OP case, NO, not all men behave like looky-loos. Responses have obviously broadened the OP's meaning to enjoying looking at women in all ways. There is a difference between a man looking at a physically attractive woman in an acceptable way and the way many men will habitually gawk, ogle, grinning like some yokel, in more physical ways.

I personally have always enjoyed looking at attractive women but learned growing up going to K12 schools there are ways socially to do so reasonably with a smile and others that are not without coming off as a !@#$.  That noted, it is true as a teen and young adult lost in a rapidly changing cultural revolution of the 60s/70s era that I sometime adopted the crude and rude dark side.  That was especially true while in the military that is a moral cesspool.  Am not a fan of current societal morals while also being over decades, a "Live and Let Live" person for those who are free to choose otherwise.  As one of the minority that over decades now that never looks at any pornography in any media, I also never view any web pages of all those celebrities in this era that are constantly showing off parts of their anatomy.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 19, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Around here, many, many women wear pants so tight, it looks as if they have been melted and poured into their pants. To say nothing about low cut revealing blouses.


You got pictures?

Nothing wrong with that, if they feel good doing it.


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## Pinky (Sep 19, 2022)

senior chef said:


> I disagree.  Women, for the most part, pay little attention to how men are dressed, or their build.


You are incorrect


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## Bella (Sep 19, 2022)

senior chef said:


> *I disagree.  Women, for the most part, pay little attention to how men are dressed, or their build.*





Pinky said:


> *You are incorrect  *


Pinky is correct, chef. You are incorrect!


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## Bella (Sep 19, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> *Question for the women. Do you approve or disapprove of men looking at you?
> Is it true women always knows where a man's eyes are?*


Sometimes we don't even know when we're being looked at, and sometimes we do and can't really do anything about it except quickly move on.

My husband and I were in Jamaica on vacation. We were walking down the beach, where there were several stalls selling various items. My husband stopped to talk to a guy with a boat about going out fishing, and I walked ahead. As I was going on my way, I heard a voice behind me call out, "Hey lady, you gotta _niiiiiice...... walk!_" I just kept walking. If I'd been with my husband, I don't think the guy would've called out.

On another vacation, we stayed at a resort that had private pools next to the rooms. My husband noticed a man peering at me through the bushes while I was laying out on the lounge chair. He went over and chased him away. The next day, the same guy was at it again. My husband had a few choice words for him. Then he went to the front desk and asked to speak to the manager. He told the manager what had been going on and that if he saw the guy staring at me again, "I'm going to kill him." After that, we never saw "Peeping Tom" again. Let me say that my husband was a non-violent person, and that was only said to make an impression. I never knew him to lay a hand on anyone.

Throughout my life, I've had my share of looks, stares, and catcalls. I don't mind if guys take a look, as long as they aren't pigs about it.

Bella


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## carouselsilver (Sep 19, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Looking your age doesn't mean you don't look good, and won't be looked at.
> 
> Understandable, that is not good behavior.    I know it happens, but I don't think most men do that, not to strangers.
> 
> I look a lot, but have never commented or catcalled, except to women I knew well and was sure they would take it well.


It happened quite a bit in the city where I grew up. Once, when I was about fifteen, I was coming home from school and there were construction workers on my block. They all stopped and stared at me, when all I was doing was walking by. It made me very nervous!


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## carouselsilver (Sep 19, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> You got pictures?
> 
> Nothing wrong with that, if they feel good doing it.


I like to see a nice, well built man dressed neatly and attractively!


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## Jules (Sep 19, 2022)

carouselsilver said:


> It happened quite a bit in the city where I grew up. Once, when I was about fifteen, I was coming home from school and there were construction workers on my block. They all stopped and stared at me, when all I was doing was walking by. It made me very nervous!


When I was a kid in Toronto, about 10 years old, the construction workers would call out things and whistle.  It made me really upset to walk past them because I was a really shy kid.


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## carouselsilver (Sep 19, 2022)

Jules said:


> When I was a kid in Toronto, about 10 years old, the construction workers would call out things and whistle.  It made me really upset to walk past them because I was a really shy kid.


I was very shy, too so it made me uneasy. But... you were only ten years old? That's insane!


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## senior chef (Sep 19, 2022)

Bella said:


> Pinky is correct, chef. You are incorrect!


Compared to how men think about women's bodies, woman's interest is very slight.  Women have a MUCH greater interest in a man who can provide 'security'. For women, it's all about the money.

Think about this. Consider all of the "men's magazines" and then ask yourself how many "women's magazines" show completely nude men ? Not a single one that I can think of. If women had much interest in nude men, surely there would be magazines that cater to that interest.

Then, consider  the overwhelming number of advertisements that show photos of sexy women as the center of interest.
Take a gander at all of the movie posters/ads. If the ad has BOTH a man and a woman, generally speaking, she is displaying : long sexy legs, low cut tops, a tiny waist, and a tight firm butt. He, on the other hand, is shown strong and "tough" but not much of any skin showing.

Repeat: Men are are overwhelmingly attracted to a young, sexy female body. Women, much, much less so.
Moreover, a very high percentage of women go to GREAT lengths to enhance every bit of their bodies. Jeez, coloring their faces, even spending much time on their nails, hair etc. There is a multi-billion dollar industry geared toward female 'beauty'. 

If men thought, for one second, that women would respond to how men dressed, I promise you that men would spend a great deal of time
getting made up.


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## Pinky (Sep 19, 2022)

I have a calendar with hot firefighters .. women like eye-candy too!


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## Packerjohn (Sep 19, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Not the case in Saudi Arabia!  In the time I spent there I could tell nothing about what a woman in a full burqa looked like underneath, nothing but maybe height...  Couldn't tell an 80 year old from 18.
> 
> Some of the guys I worked with called them walking garbage bags, I didn't but did get their point.
> 
> Be grateful most women can choose more revealing clothing, not hard.


Hey, you don't have to go to Saudi Arabia to see covered up women.  Come right here to the apartment block where I live.  They all walk around with those god awful masks.  I have been here for 10 months and I haven't met 1 woman (I'm a widower).  This morning I saw this woman walking down the hallway this as I was returning from my car.  About 50 feet in front of me, she puts on this horrible masks so I can't even tell if she is good looking or ugly as sin.  She made feel like I was totally diseased.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel.  In another 40 hours I will be gone.  Life is to short to remain in "The Land of the Living Dead."  I figured it out this morning that you don't have to be crazy to live here but it sure helps!


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## senior chef (Sep 19, 2022)

Pinky said:


> I have a calendar with hot firefighters .. women like eye-candy too!


Yes, there is SOME truth in that. BUT, the vast majority of women are much, much more interested in his money.

If I had a choice between being extremely handsome, OR ultra rich, I'd chose rich every time.
Look at it this way. Which man would do better with women ? A dead broke handsome young waiter OR a ultra rich senior man ?


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## Bella (Sep 19, 2022)

senior chef said:


> *Compared to how men think about women's bodies, woman's interest is very slight.  Women have a MUCH greater interest in a man who can provide 'security'. For women, it's all about the money.*
> 
> Think about this. Consider all of the "men's magazines" and then ask yourself how many "women's magazines" show completely* nude men *? Not a single one that I can think of.* If women had much interest in nude men, surely there would be magazines that cater to that interest.*
> 
> ...


_Wrong again!_ I'm sorry if your experience has been limited to women who are only interested in your bank account. Making a generalization about all women that “it's all about the money” is_ way_ off base. And WTH does nudity have to do with anything? Why are you bringing nudity into it? We aren't talking about nudity. 

I'm not going to debate this any further with you, chef. From your misogynistic remarks, I can see that it is a complete waste of my time. There's nothing I can say that will change your perspective. You have an exceedingly low opinion of women. I have no doubt that you are single and will remain so.

Bella


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## senior chef (Sep 19, 2022)

Bella said:


> _Wrong again!_ I'm sorry if your experience has been limited to women who are only interested in your bank account. Making a generalization about all women that “it's all about the money” is_ way_ off base. And WTH does nudity have to do with anything? Why are you bringing nudity into it? We aren't talking about nudity.
> 
> I'm not going to debate this any further with you, chef. From your misogynistic remarks, I can see that it is a complete waste of my time. There's nothing I can say that will change your perspective. You have an exceedingly low opinion of women. I have no doubt that you are single and will remain so.
> 
> Bella


Sorry you feel that way, BUT it's a well known fact that money attracts women .
In any event, I never said or implied "ALL WOMEN". 
Doubt what i say ?  One example of thousands. Henry Kissinger, a powerful, wealthy, very unattractive man was famous for being surrounded by young , sexy women.


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## grahamg (Sep 20, 2022)

carouselsilver said:


> It happened quite a bit in the city where I grew up. Once, when I was about fifteen, I was coming home from school and there were construction workers on my block. They all stopped and stared at me, when all I was doing was walking by. It made me very nervous!


It did used to be a construction workers role in life almost, to wolf whistle at every opportunity, though to counter your argument slightly, there must have been quite a few young women getting a boost to their ego through it going on so often, and now its been banned, or disappeared for whatever reason, those chances to be boosted and made to feel good have been taken away to protect those who felt as you did, ("long winded" I know  ).


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## Alligatorob (Sep 20, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Repeat: Men are are overwhelmingly attracted to a young, sexy female body.


Can't speak for others, but I am more attracted to women in my age range.   I do enjoy looking at young sexy women, but "attracted", no.  Not interested in that way in someone who looks like my granddaughter...  Feels a bit like being a podophile.  Women of the kind who I can actually imagine a relationship with are more interesting.


senior chef said:


> money attracts women


Men too, do you believe Madonna attracted her 20 something based on looks or personality?  I doubt it.  I find myself paying more attention to people with money...  I think most of us do.


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## Mr. Ed (Sep 20, 2022)

Jules said:


> When I was a kid in Toronto, about 10 years old, the construction workers would call out things and whistle.  It made me really upset to walk past them because I was a really shy kid.


Men used to get away with that kind of behavior more so than they do now. Usually men who demand an audience to reinforce crude behavior are immature and wanting something they cannot have, hence ridiculing an unattainable object of person simply reinforces the reason why they do not deserve the object of their caveman desire.


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## Mr. Ed (Sep 20, 2022)

grahamg said:


> It did used to be a construction workers role in life all!ost, to wolf whistle at every opportunity, though to counter your argument slightly, there must have been quite a few young women getting a boost to their ego through it going on so often, and now its been banned, or disappeared for whatever reason, those chances to be boosted and made to feel good have been taken away to protect those who felt as you did, ("long winded" I know  ).





senior chef said:


> Compared to how men think about women's bodies, woman's interest is very slight.  Women have a MUCH greater interest in a man who can provide 'security'. For women, it's all about the money.
> 
> Think about this. Consider all of the "men's magazines" and then ask yourself how many "women's magazines" show completely nude men ? Not a single one that I can think of. If women had much interest in nude men, surely there would be magazines that cater to that interest.
> 
> ...


It is true women think differently than men. For men it is about what is arousing and women it may be about what is attractive to them. Both sexes have wants and needs, For a female, long term sustainability, support and strength to ensure a strong lineage of offspring. Men are different. Most men including myself do not often think about long-term commitment in the heat of the moment, I am driven by attaining , wooing over a woman's prized possession, trust, companionship and loyalty. Not everything is about sex, however, everything is about sex or else we would not be having this discussion.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Sep 20, 2022)

I've always read that men are visual people. Not to be confused with The Village People.


----------



## Pepper (Sep 20, 2022)

grahamg said:


> It did used to be a construction workers role in life all!ost, to wolf whistle at every opportunity, though to counter your argument slightly, there must have been quite a few young women getting a boost to their ego through it going on so often, and now its been banned, or disappeared for whatever reason, those chances to be boosted and made to feel good have been taken away to protect those who felt as you did, ("long winded" I know  ).


I had an hilarious encounter with a construction guy years ago.  I passed by a site and a worker yelled "Hey Baby, will you Marry Me?" complete with grunts & whistles.  Instead of being offended, I realized how ridiculous it was and started laughing.  Then he realized how ridiculous it was and he started laughing and before long we were laughing hysterically together and as I was leaving to go about my business he gave me the thumbs up sign.  Good memory, still makes me laugh.


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## Mr. Ed (Sep 20, 2022)

*Clarification: Is it true women always knows where a man's eyes are? 
Do women know when a guy looks at her breasts? 
Guys, do find it difficult to avoid looking at women's breasts? *


----------



## horseless carriage (Sep 20, 2022)

carouselsilver said:


> I like to see a nice, well built man dressed neatly and attractively!



Aw, carouselsilver, you pay the nicest compliments.
(look down to the right beside me. Photobombed
by our cat Ruby.)


----------



## Mr. Ed (Sep 20, 2022)

Depending on ****** preference some men are looky-Lukes.  I hope this observation does not offend anyone, I thought it was funny so posted it.


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 20, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Yes, there is SOME truth in that. BUT, the vast majority of women are much, much more interested in his money.
> 
> If I had a choice between being extremely handsome, OR ultra rich, I'd chose rich every time.
> Look at it this way. Which man would do better with women ? A dead broke handsome young waiter OR a ultra rich senior man ?


Oh what a load of crap.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 20, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> Guys, do find it difficult to avoid looking at women's breasts?


Not at all, there are other parts worthy of examination!


----------



## jimintoronto (Sep 20, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Compared to how men think about women's bodies, woman's interest is very slight.  Women have a MUCH greater interest in a man who can provide 'security'. For women, it's all about the money.
> 
> Think about this. Consider all of the "men's magazines" and then ask yourself how many "women's magazines" show completely nude men ? Not a single one that I can think of. If women had much interest in nude men, surely there would be magazines that cater to that interest.
> 
> ...


I guess you never heard of the magazine called "Playgirl " ? Nude men in every edition, full frontal. You need to get out more buddy. JImB.


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## Chet (Sep 20, 2022)

Are All Men Looky-Loos?​Mostly just reminiscing now.


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## MsFox (Sep 20, 2022)

Some are and some aren't! My 52 years as a widow is testimony that in my case the ones that looked weren't the right ones.


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## MsFox (Sep 20, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I had an hilarious encounter with a construction guy years ago.  I passed by a site and a worker yelled "Hey Baby, will you Marry Me?" complete with grunts & whistles.  Instead of being offended, I realized how ridiculous it was and started laughing.  Then he realized how ridiculous it was and he started laughing and before long we were laughing hysterically together and as I was leaving to go about my business he gave me the thumbs up sign.  Good memory, still makes me laugh.


Yeah, I have had that happen several times. My reply is it depends on how many pigs my family gets from your farm. I usually get a laugh, but not always.


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## Serenity4321 (Sep 20, 2022)

David777 said:


> Had only previously heard the term "*looky-loos*" a few times on radio traffic reports as another slang term for rubber neckers, those inconsiderate curious drivers that cannot resist driving slowly past anything along roads like accidents, police vehicles, and anything else that backs up traffic.  Like when they reach an annoying highway bottleneck, they cause the bottleneck to continue for everyone behind them they apparently don't care about.  So as someone not on any post smartphone social media where such is likely rampant, looked the slang term up and notice like many who think using such terms is socially cool, they are also quick to co-opt use in other ways never intended.
> 
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lookie-loo
> _US, informal + often disparaging
> ...


Off topic a bit but I have mostly used the label _lookie loos_ for people who read a board but do not participate...

As for the topic being discussed...,..I think it is wonderful to have men and even women notice how everyone looks. I like it, especially after all my shopping and fixing my hair and make-up not to mention the time taken to eat properly and exercise.  Cat calls go too far,as do crude comments. I hear that happens a lot in NY city? That would be annoying..


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 20, 2022)

Serenity4321 said:


> Off topic a bit but I have mostly used the label _lookie loos_ for people who read a board but do not participate...
> 
> As for the topic being discussed...,..I think it is wonderful to have men and even women notice how everyone looks. I like it, especially after all my shopping and fixing my hair and make-up not to mention the time taken to eat properly and exercise.  Cat calls go too far,as do crude comments. I hear that happens a lot in NY city? That would be annoying..


It happens a lot in Iowa, too.  
So much so, in fact, that a few years ago someone started a website to bring it to the public's attention.


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## carouselsilver (Sep 20, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> View attachment 240451
> Aw, carouselsilver, you pay the nicest compliments.
> (look down to the right beside me. Photobombed
> by our cat Ruby.)


Well, sir you look awesome! Now, do you have lots and lots of money?


----------



## Serenity4321 (Sep 20, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> It happens a lot in Iowa, too.
> So much so, in fact, that a few years ago someone started a website to bring it to the public's attention.


No doubt it happens a lot..we see it in the movies around construction sites esp in  NY lol so maybe that is what I was thinking about.....but no doubt it is everywhere.


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## Serenity4321 (Sep 20, 2022)

MsFox said:


> Yeah, I have had that happen several times. My reply is it depends on how many pigs my family gets from your farm. I usually get a laugh, but not always.


lol great response! Exchanges  should be fun like that


Pepper said:


> I had an hilarious encounter with a construction guy years ago.  I passed by a site and a worker yelled "Hey Baby, will you Marry Me?" complete with grunts & whistles.  Instead of being offended, I realized how ridiculous it was and started laughing.  Then he realized how ridiculous it was and he started laughing and before long we were laughing hysterically together and as I was leaving to go about my business he gave me the thumbs up sign.  Good memory, still makes me laugh.


I love interactions like that..it's fun!


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## deaver (Sep 20, 2022)

so you ladies dont want us men to look at you then dont expect us to compliment you on how you look today. i dare say that wont go far. hey


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## Pinky (Sep 20, 2022)

Women check out men, just as much as men check out women. It has always been that way


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## JaniceM (Sep 20, 2022)

deaver said:


> so you ladies dont want us men to look at you then dont expect us to compliment you on how you look today. i dare say that wont go far. hey


I'd be perfectly ok with no comments at all, including compliments. 

HOWEVER- there is a huge difference between (examples) "Your dress is very pretty" and "Gotta get me some of that, wOOO!"


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## horseless carriage (Sep 20, 2022)

carouselsilver said:


> Well, sir you look awesome! Now, do you have lots and lots of money?


Well, I'm halfway to my goal of becoming filthy rich. Now I just have to figure out the rich part.


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## senior chef (Sep 20, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Oh what a load of crap.


Say what you will, but i assure you that men with money do much better with women than men without money. 
The truth of this statement is as obvious as the nose on your face.


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 20, 2022)

senior chef said:


> i assure you that men with money do much better with women than men without money.


I think you are right, but I also think women with money do better with men than women without.  Just the way of the world, I think most of us, men and women want to befriend winners and influence people.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 20, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> (examples) "Your dress is very pretty"


Hey @JaniceM , your J is very pretty, and I'd bet your dress is too!


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## Bella (Sep 20, 2022)

My husband really knew how to compliment women.  He wouldn't say, "That's a pretty dress." or "I like your dress." He'd say, "_You look terrific_ in that dress."


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## senior chef (Sep 20, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I think you are right, but I also think women with money do better with men than women without.  Just the way of the world, I think most of us, men and women want to befriend winners and influence people.


Yes, that is probably true. However, IMO, women desire "security" far more then men. Men, on the other hand are far more interested in physical attractiveness. Not to say that women don't like physical attractiveness, but if given a choice between a man who is handsome, but dirt poor, and a man who is wealthy , but not so handsome, she would pick the wealthy man 9 times out of ten. 

My own experience tells me that when I had money, I was quite popular with women, but when I was strapped for cash, I did much less well.
That was especially true when I lived in Asia. Many women there seemed to think I was rich. Such women often made the 1st light touch.


----------



## grahamg (Sep 20, 2022)

MsFox said:


> Some are and some aren't! My 52 years as a widow is testimony that in my case the ones that looked weren't the right ones.


Not finding the right one can be put down to all kinds of reasons of course, though you're right those who look at each of us, and for whatever reason turn out not to be compatible, are always therefore the wrong ones.
A good friend of mine who is now sadly no longer with us, but who was a treasure of a woman, always had to admit she went for the wrong ones, (those a bit "flash" if you know what I mean), and it must be said if she tried to find a more dependable type, they were convinced she'd have "lead them a merry dance",(I overheard one say this to her!).


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## grahamg (Sep 20, 2022)

carouselsilver said:


> Well, sir you look awesome! Now, do you have lots and lots of money?


The guy might just have all the dough, but be such a spendthrift you can't get a dime off him, so its worth remembering that possibility as you imagine a life of luxury.


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## Right Now (Sep 20, 2022)

Pinky said:


> Women check out men, just as much as men check out women. It has always been that way


`nuff said.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 20, 2022)

Bella said:


> He'd say, "_You look terrific_ in that dress."


My line is usually "You sure make that dress look good."

So Bella, you sure make that red hat look good!


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## Bella (Sep 20, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> *My line is usually "You sure make that dress look good."*


You're complimenting the woman rather than her dress. That's the ticket, Rob.


Alligatorob said:


> *So Bella, you sure make that red hat look good!*


LOL!  Why thank you, kind sir!


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## senior chef (Sep 20, 2022)

Right Now said:


> `nuff said.


So, women check out men as much as men check out women ? Really ?  Hmm.  Well, all I can say to that is that those women who allegedly check out men, is that they certainly are quiet about it.  It seems to me that they rarely ever take any action to back up their desires. Instead she averts her eyes and waits for HIM to make the 1st move.


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## grahamg (Sep 21, 2022)

senior chef said:


> So, women check out men as much as men check out women ? Really ?  Hmm.  Well, all I can say to that is that those women who allegedly check out men, is that they certainly are quiet about it.  It seems to me that they rarely ever take any action to back up their desires. Instead she averts her eyes and waits for HIM to make the 1st move.


You are maybe not considering the ways in which it is possible for a lady to look out of the corner of her eye, and know exactly what they're doing to attract your attention thereafter! 
"The first lady to entrap me" had weighed me up the week before, (whilst I was playing a game of hockey), asked my cousin about me, (who was a friend of hers), then arranged to be the one of them to try to sell me a raffle ticket at a young farmers organised evening. Thus unsuspectingly I asked her for a dance in return for buying the tickets, and one of my father's farming friends watching this first dance and her staring into my eyes told him, "Graham's hooked", not finding out until long after how beautifully set up the trap had been!!!!!!


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## grahamg (Sep 21, 2022)

Bella said:


> You're complimenting the woman rather than her dress. That's the ticket, Rob.
> 
> LOL!  Why thank you, kind sir!


I knew a guy once who made a thing out of complimenting the women he met on their hair, and how nice it was or looked. I suspect the ladies he gave his attention to knew he was doing so in jest, but still enjoyed the flattery, (hence my old bosses comments proved true once again, "Flattery can get you a long way"!  ).


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## Mr. Ed (Sep 21, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> Depending on ****** preference some men are looky-Lukes.  I hope this observation does not offend anyone, I thought it was funny so posted it.


Thank you for the clarification


----------



## Mr. Ed (Sep 21, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Say what you will, but i assure you that men with money do much better with women than men without money.
> The truth of this statement is as obvious as the nose on your face.


There are usually additional factors to men with money and without money. Usually men with money, not all men with money but more than a few offer greater benefits and sustainability that poor men cannot provide. Not all men, but a few refuse to work and are irresponsible and detrimental to the family wellbeing and structure. Poor character in men does not have a financial status.


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## Mr. Ed (Sep 21, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Not at all, there are other parts worthy of examination!


I agree, what's your favorite part?


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## Mr. Ed (Sep 21, 2022)

Pinky said:


> Women check out men, just as much as men check out women. It has always been that way


To clarify men and women check out what attracts them. It's always been that way....hmm does that include animals as well? Not zoophilia, no no animals attracted to other animals? How many times have seen animal relationships that do not follow normal companionship groupings. Like a bird and a cat or wildlife adopting animals that are not theirs to raise but there you have it. I wonder if fish nurture other fish? Fish are not land animals and is hard to know what goes on in a fishy brain.


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## Right Now (Sep 21, 2022)

I don't wanna think about fish.  It is the man/woman thing I'm focused on right now.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 21, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> I agree, what's your favorite part?


No one part, I like the whole package, hair to toes.  Though on some women there are some parts I notice more than others.


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## Pepper (Sep 21, 2022)

You guys have no idea how awful it is to have a conversation with a man who is staring at your breasts.  It was a horrible feeling, embarrassing and disgusting.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 21, 2022)

Pepper said:


> You guys have no idea how awful it is to have a conversation with a man who is staring at your breasts.  It was a horrible feeling, embarrassing and disgusting.


When talking with a woman I usually am looking at her face.

One exception I still clearly remember.  It was in Italy, staying in a small beachfront hotel in Lido di Jesolo.  I was sitting on one of the hotel's beach chairs and this young woman came up to me, topless, and started talking.  Had a real hard time looking her in the eye, when I finally did I realized she was the hotel girl who had been serving us meals.  Nice lady, but I have to admit to a moment (maybe longer...) of staring at her chest...


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## Paco Dennis (Sep 21, 2022)

Pepper said:


> You guys have no idea how awful it is to have a conversation with a man who is staring at your breasts.  It was a horrible feeling, embarrassing and disgusting.


This is a joke Pepper so...

What if it were the guys who had that horrible, embarrassing, and disgusting feeling when staring at your breasts?


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## Pepper (Sep 21, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> This is a joke Pepper so...
> 
> What if it were the guys who had that horrible, embarrassing, and disgusting feeling when staring at your breasts?


Then let him look somewhere else!


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## Paco Dennis (Sep 21, 2022)

I wonder how often females draw attention to their breasts/butts/legs/eyes/hair...etc.? What could be the motivation?


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## Alligatorob (Sep 21, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> What could be the motivation?


Doesn't everyone feel better when they look their best?


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## Paco Dennis (Sep 21, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Doesn't everyone feel better when they look their best?


That is a hard one for me to accomplish these days!


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## Serenity4321 (Sep 21, 2022)

Bella said:


> My husband really knew how to compliment women.  He wouldn't say, "That's a pretty dress." or "I like your dress." He'd say, "_You look terrific_ in that dress."


That makes a difference all should learn


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## Serenity4321 (Sep 21, 2022)

Right Now said:


> I don't wanna think about fish.  It is the man/woman thing I'm focused on right now.


LOL for some reason this reminded me of the 60s and the saying _women need a man like a fish needs a bicycle..._which was kind of mean, but funny


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## senior chef (Sep 21, 2022)

Pepper said:


> You guys have no idea how awful it is to have a conversation with a man who is staring at your breasts.  It was a horrible feeling, embarrassing and disgusting.


Maybe you don't do it , but many women openly display cleavage. 
I'm not what is called a "breast man", but I do notice, in passing, how many women dress to deliberately show off cleavage.

I have no idea how many women complain about men looking at them, BUT women could easily put a stop to this by NOT dressing in a 'sexy' way.  Think about it. When out and about in the world, notice how many women wear skin tight pants, such as "Yoga Pants. How many wear ultra low cut blouses ? How many women have had breast implants ?  How many don't wear a bra, so that nipples clearly show ?

On and on it goes. The list of things women do to get noticed is literally endless.


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## senior chef (Sep 21, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> There are usually additional factors to men with money and without money. Usually men with money, not all men with money but more than a few offer greater benefits and sustainability that poor men cannot provide. Not all men, but a few refuse to work and are irresponsible and detrimental to the family wellbeing and structure. Poor character in men does not have a financial status.


Please name a few benefits and/or sustainability that men with money offer.  Then take away the money and see if those benefits remain.


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## horseless carriage (Sep 21, 2022)

Pepper said:


> You guys have no idea how awful it is to have a conversation with a man who is staring at your breasts.  It was a horrible feeling, embarrassing and disgusting.


If there's too much on display it will catch my eye, but that's all. Sometimes displaying the charms can be deliberate, there's no need to dress like a nun but care should be given to what is appropriate. 
Here's someone who could learn such a lesson. It's almost impossible for your eye not to see the regal staff.


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## carouselsilver (Sep 21, 2022)

Pepper said:


> You guys have no idea how awful it is to have a conversation with a man who is staring at your breasts.  It was a horrible feeling, embarrassing and disgusting.


When I was a single mom, I dreaded conversations with my landlord because he kept casting furtive glances at my breasts. It was really uncomfortable when he was in my personal living space!


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## Paco Dennis (Sep 21, 2022)

carouselsilver said:


> When I was a single mom, I dreaded conversations with my landlord because he kept casting furtive glances at my breasts. It was really uncomfortable when he was in my personal living space!


There are some disgusting people who don't give a hoot how you feel, and they will do awful things to you. I do believe we are all guilty of this at some point in our spotless lives.   When our primal instincts take over we become far less than pleasant.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 21, 2022)

senior chef said:


> women could easily put a stop to this by NOT dressing in a 'sexy' way


Maybe we should follow the Saudi example, full burqas would work!


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## Mr. Ed (Sep 21, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Please name a few benefits and/or sustainability that men with money offer.  Then take away the money and see if those benefits remain.


Men with money are not necessarily a good husband or family man, for that is for him to determine. A good relationship with spouse or partner requires honesty and a willingness to support each other come thick or thin. It takes a lot to put up with me and my wife is talented that way. I am skeptical of most people and their circumstances. I moved away from a human service provider, caring for addicts and mental health consumers. Burned out is a term used to describe an over-abundance of time and effort toward one or many people for the enhancement of other peoples lives. 

I am skeptical of people having waited on needy people as a career I am burned out and have no desire to serve people again


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## Bella (Sep 21, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> *There are some disgusting people who don't give a hoot how you feel, and they will do awful things to you. I do believe we are all guilty of this at some point in our spotless lives.   When our primal instincts take over we become far less than pleasant.*


My life is hardly spotless, lol! 

Civilized people are able to control their impulses. That includes staring at _anyone's_ body parts. You're right, some people don't give a hoot because all they're interested in is their own pleasure. Some people stare because _they want to make you uncomfortable_. They use it to intimidate you. It's disgusting, low-life behavior.

Men are also known to show off their bodies in BIG ways. Especially the Italian fashionistas. OMG, you should see what some of these men wear on the streets, and it's not just the Italians. You'd have to be stone-cold dead not to look at them! They_ want _you to LK at them. I have no doubt that even men couldn't help but stare, lol! I'd love to post some photos, but they'd get deleted. 

Bella


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## carouselsilver (Sep 21, 2022)

I notice that certain people keep making these comments about women only being interested in men for potential financial gain. I can only speak for myself, but when I met my current husband, we were both over 50. He had been working in the scientific field, mostly lab work. After a bad experience he lost confidence, and at the time we met, he was delivering pizza for a living. I fell in love with him not because he had a high income, but because I was genuinely attracted to him and not to what he could buy for me.

I encouraged him to dust off his dreams and try again. He is now making a much better salary, and feels content in his work, in a lab. I could never feel attraction to a man based upon his material assets; never have and never will. I was pretty capable of supporting myself, having worked in health care, so I wasn't looking to be "taken care of." 

Perhaps there are women out there who are gold diggers; and personally, I do believe that a man's potential to be a good provider is definitely a plus,especially if you expect to start a family with him. But that would not be the sole reason for me to be attracted to someone!


----------



## senior chef (Sep 21, 2022)

carouselsilver said:


> I notice that certain people keep making these comments about women only being interested in men for potential financial gain. I can only speak for myself, but when I met my current husband, we were both over 50. He had been working in the scientific field, mostly lab work. After a bad experience he lost confidence, and at the time we met, he was delivering pizza for a living. I fell in love with him not because he had a high income, but because I was genuinely attracted to him and not to what he could buy for me.
> 
> I encouraged him to dust off his dreams and try again. He is now making a much better salary, and feels content in his work, in a lab. I could never feel attraction to a man based upon his material assets; never have and never will. I was pretty capable of supporting myself, having worked in health care, so I wasn't looking to be "taken care of."
> 
> *Perhaps there are women out there who are gold diggers;* and personally, I do believe that a man's potential to be a good provider is definitely a plus,especially if you expect to start a family with him. But that would not be the sole reason for me to be attracted to someone!



PERHAPS there are gold diggers out there ?  Is there any doubt what-so-ever ?


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## Shalimar (Sep 21, 2022)

*There are people who are gold diggers, regardless of gender.*


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## DaveA (Sep 21, 2022)

Pepper said:


> You guys have no idea how awful it is to have a conversation with a man who is staring at your breasts.  It was a horrible feeling, embarrassing and disgusting.


Based on your embarrassment and disgust, it's hard to understand why so many women choose to "enlarge" their breasts .  It can't be because they are all "bad girls" - - -can it? tsk, tsk.


----------



## Shalimar (Sep 21, 2022)

DaveA said:


> Based on your embarrassment and disgust, it's hard to understand why so many women choose to "enlarge" their breasts .  It can't be because they are all "bad girls" - - -can it? tsk, tsk.


Augmentation or reduction, altering her breast size is a woman’s prerogative. It may or may not be a desire to attract men. I can certainly understand Pepper’s feelings of embarrassment and

disgust. A quick admiring glance is far different than being leered at. Not all men are fans of large breasts. Nor do all those men who leer confine themselves to ogling them. Over the years, leerers have ogled my breasts, legs, and derrière, it is not respectful. We are not pieces of meat.


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 21, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> Augmentation or reduction, altering her breast size is a woman’s prerogative.


I agree, but its not real common.  Only about 1% of women in North America.

Breast augmentation: A geographical comparison​https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3006117/


----------



## senior chef (Sep 21, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> *There are people who are gold diggers, regardless of gender.*


Yes, so they claim.  I, personally, have never met a man who is a gold digger. Nor have I ever known anyone who has mentioned a male gold digger.
However, I have personally had run ins with female gold diggers. Not much fun dating one. I quickly moved on. 
I'd be willing to bet that for every male gold digger, there are dozens and dozens of female gold diggers.


----------



## Bella (Sep 21, 2022)

DaveA said:


> *Based on your embarrassment and disgust, it's hard to understand why so many women choose to "enlarge" their breasts .  It can't be because they are all "bad girls" - - -can it? tsk, tsk.*





Shalimar said:


> *Augmentation or reduction, altering her breast size is a woman’s prerogative. It may or may not be a desire to attract men. I can certainly understand Pepper’s feelings of embarrassment and
> 
> disgust. A quick admiring glance is far different than being leered at. Not all men are fans of large breasts. Nor do all those men who leer confine themselves to ogling them. We are not pieces of meat.  Over the years, leerers have ogled my breasts, legs, and derrière, it is not respectful.*


The men in this thread who are making remarks like the one above desire women but understand nothing and have no respect for women. It's not the women's fault that they can't control themselves.

It's good to know which men on SF are misogynists and which men are gentlemen. Very good. Thank you for showing us your true selves.


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## Shalimar (Sep 21, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Yes, so they claim.  I, personally, have never met a man who is a gold digger. Nor have I ever known anyone who has mentioned a male gold digger.
> However, I have personally had run ins with female gold diggers. Not much fun dating one. I quickly moved on.
> I'd be willing to bet that for every male gold digger, there are dozens and dozens of female gold diggers.


That might be difficult to prove. By the way, over the course of my career, I have met several.


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 21, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Yes, so they claim. I, personally, have never met a man who is a gold digger. Nor have I ever known anyone who has mentioned a male gold digger.


Do some research, you'll find plenty of male gold diggers.  Nothing new or female about wanting more money...

"_Two in 10 single adults can be classified as "gold diggers" saying that they would marry somebody for their money, according to DDB's Life Style Study. And 54% of these gold diggers are men. And young. Whereas gold digger women are more likely to be part of the boomer generation (40% are female vs. 27% male), gold digger males are significantly more likely to be part of the Millennial generation (40% are male vs. 25% female)._"
From: *Watch Out Ladies, Millennial Men Are Gold Diggers* https://www.forbes.com/sites/lariss...lennial-men-are-gold-diggers/?sh=6a992e032904

and

*The Most Egregious Male Gold Diggers* https://www.ranker.com/list/the-most-egregious-male-gold-diggers/mark


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## Alligatorob (Sep 21, 2022)

DaveA said:


> it's hard to understand why so many women choose to "enlarge" their breasts . It can't be because they are all "bad girls" - - -can it?


Not so many, and I see no connection to being bad if they do.


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## senior chef (Sep 21, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> Augmentation or reduction, altering her breast size is a woman’s prerogative. It may or may not be a desire to attract men. I can certainly understand Pepper’s feelings of embarrassment and
> 
> disgust. A quick admiring glance is far different than being leered at. Not all men are fans of large breasts. Nor do all those men who leer confine themselves to ogling them. Over the years, leerers have ogled my breasts, legs, and derrière, it is not respectful. We are not pieces of meat.


I agree, women are not pieces of meat. However, men are FLOODED with testosterone.  In fact, men have aprox 9 times more testosterone than women.  Testosterone is what fires up the sex drive. From early teens onward, boys become obsessed with thoughts of sex.
Perhaps a poor analogy , but fry up some bacon and see how quickly your dog comes running. Then tease the dog. Waive the bacon around , but don't give him any.  That is what it is like to be male and live in a world overflowing with women who tease us by dressing sexy: low cut blouses, ultra tight jeans, super high skirt hemlines, "hot pants" etc etc.


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## Lara (Sep 21, 2022)

All people are people watchers.
All people watchers are male or female.
All married people should "Just Stop It" according to Bob Newhart


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## Shalimar (Sep 21, 2022)

senior chef said:


> I agree, women are not pieces of meat. However, men are FLOODED with testosterone.  In fact, men have aprox 9 times more testosterone than women.  Testosterone is what fires up the sex drive. From early teens onward, boys become obsessed with thoughts of sex.
> Perhaps a poor analogy , but fry up some bacon and see how quickly your dog comes running. Then tease the dog. Waive the bacon around , but don't give him any.  That is what it is like to be male and live in a world overflowing with women who tease us by dressing sexy: low cut blouses, ultra tight jeans, super high skirt hemlines, "hot pants" etc etc.


If some men feel overwhelmed by their levels of testosterone, it must be very difficult. However, it is not a woman’s responsibility to cover up in order to make things easier for them. I would think that frank conversations with other men who seem to be comfortable with their response might be more helpful than pointing fingers at certain women.


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## DaveA (Sep 21, 2022)

Bella said:


> The men in this thread who are making remarks like the one above desire women but understand nothing and have no respect for women. It's not the women's fault that they can't control themselves.
> 
> It's good to know which men on SF are misogynists and which men are gentlemen. Very good. Thank you for showing us your true selves.


And I mistook this for a good natured topic  and unfortunately posted what I assumed to be in jest.
I see that I was wrong and apologize to those who have been offended.  Sorry for any misplaced humor.

Having met a beautiful young lady back in 1953, marrying her in '56, and still happily married to this day, I may be out of touch with modern day humor.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 21, 2022)

senior chef said:


> From early teens onward, boys become obsessed with thoughts of sex.


Yep, been there done that, most all males know the feeling.

However there is also good reason to believe that rape and murder are natural human instincts.  As we have become civilized we have learned to control and live with these feelings, and not to act on them.   I think most all men have thoughts and desires we suppress for the good of society and ourselves.  Women too probably.

Being respectful to ladies isn't hard, and has its benefits.  

*Sociobiological theories of rape  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape*

Why do we kill?  https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/emotions/why-do-we-kill.htm​
Why do we kill? Controversial study blames our distant ancestors  https://www.science.org/content/art...troversial-study-blames-our-distant-ancestors​


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## senior chef (Sep 22, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> If some men feel overwhelmed by their levels of testosterone, it must be very difficult. However, it is not a woman’s responsibility to cover up in order to make things easier for them. I would think that frank conversations with other men who seem to be comfortable with their response might be more helpful than pointing fingers at certain women.


I don't agree with it but Muslims have a way of dealing with women who would show off their bodies. It's called a burka.
No lookie loos there.

In any event, I am well past caring if women flaunt their bodies. However, if women DO flaunt their bodies, they should expect that men are going to stare.


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## Pepper (Sep 22, 2022)

DaveA said:


> Based on your embarrassment and disgust, it's hard to understand why so many women choose to "enlarge" their breasts .  It can't be because they are all "bad girls" - - -can it? tsk, tsk.


I was relating my own feelings and not what other women do.  My feelings.  I was the young woman under the microscope.  I was the one feeling embarrassed and even ANGRY.  Remarks about other women have nothing to do what *I* felt.


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## Pepper (Sep 22, 2022)

There are times when I dressed for success with men.  I'm referring to when I didn't!


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## Pepper (Sep 22, 2022)

senior chef said:


> That is what it is like to be male and live in a world overflowing with women who tease us by dressing sexy: low cut blouses, ultra tight jeans, super high skirt hemlines, "hot pants" etc etc.


You sound horny and unfulfilled and bitter about it so you blame the object of your desires.


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## Lara (Sep 22, 2022)

Men are naturally wired to pay attention when an attractive woman is present.

Beauty triggers a man's brain by releasing *neurochemicals * that make them feel amazing when checking out attractive women. Most women know this and love to play the game...thus they take care of their appearance and flirt. Everyone knows that it feels good to look at pretty things.

It's harmless unless they don't control it. If they can't control it then they need some help. Nagging only makes it worse and is cruel. Making light of it, humor, and diverting his attention is helpful. If nothing helps then it could be a relationship issue.


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## Barbara971 (Sep 22, 2022)

Nathan said:


> Men are visual, it's programmed into the male psyche.


Do you mean it is genetically part of being a man or just something one man learns from another, so “we all just do it”?


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## JaniceM (Sep 22, 2022)

senior chef said:


> I don't agree with it but Muslims have a way of dealing with women who would show off their bodies. It's called a burka.
> No lookie loos there.
> 
> In any event, I am well past caring if women flaunt their bodies. However, if women DO flaunt their bodies, they should expect that men are going to stare.


Wellll, if you approve of burkas, does that mean you approve of beheading and/or stoning, too?!?  

Your general viewpoint, though, reminded me of this idiot from decades ago:
https://www.nytimes.com/1977/05/27/...consin-calls-rape-by-boy-normal-reaction.html

Viewpoints such as you express are more than misogynistic, they're dangerous.  
I certainly hope you don't have any kids to pass your 'ideas' to.


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## grahamg (Sep 22, 2022)

Barbara971 said:


> Do you mean it is genetically part of being a man or just something one man learns from another, so “we all just do it”?


It is interesting to read the views of those experts who have written book on human behaviour, and mentioning what is in our genes brings this to mind.

Obviously social factors come into play when it comes to considering what might be "legitimate flirting" (the kind of behaviour it would be ridiculous to try to control or outlaw), and what might be offensive behaviour in the eyes of most people. Social factors are said to have lead to us all from an early age coming to an understanding as to what is okay, and constraining ourselves because of this, (sorry if this sounds boring!  .


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## JaniceM (Sep 22, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Yep, been there done that, most all males know the feeling.
> 
> *However there is also good reason to believe that rape and murder are natural human instincts.  As we have become civilized we have learned to control and live with these feelings, and not to act on them.   I think most all men have thoughts and desires we suppress for the good of society and ourselves.  Women too probably.
> *
> ...


And that's the issue-  most people have become civilized.. and socialized to know what is and isn't acceptable behavior... but unfortunately there are those who have not.


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## Paco Dennis (Sep 22, 2022)

If we are going to have children we are going to need to have make whoopee.  Most of the adolescents and those 1st marriages I was aware of were filled with "intimate" melodrama. Who escaped it? We all had issues in this area. We wanted to have children. The western way is to be attractive in some way, not just do it mechanically. Who is more show off like is always a give and take. Of course there are those who are not socialized enough to play that game and they by pass it to go straight for their hunger, but most are on equal footing when it comes to the mating game.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 22, 2022)

Lara said:


> Men are naturally wired to pay attention when an attractive woman is present.
> 
> Beauty triggers a man's brain by releasing *neurochemicals * that make them feel amazing when checking out attractive women. Most women know this and love to play the game...thus they take care of their appearance and flirt. Everyone knows that it feels good to look at pretty things.
> 
> It's harmless unless they don't control it. If they can't control it then they need some help. Nagging only makes it worse and is cruel. Making light of it, humor, and diverting his attention is helpful. If nothing helps then it could be a relationship issue.


Really well put @Lara, it is just what I have been trying to say, me awkwardly in multiple disconnected posts, you in one concise one!  Thanks.


Barbara971 said:


> Do you mean it is genetically part of being a man or just something one man learns from another


I believe it is genetically programed, behaviors that worked for millions of year, but don't in today's society.  We have to learn to curb them to live together.  I think most people do a good job of that.


JaniceM said:


> Wellll, if you approve of burkas, does that mean you approve of beheading and/or stoning, too?!?


I approve of people wearing burqas, if they are doing it of their own free will.  And some Muslim women do, I am ok with that.  Kuwait has a very different and much more open culture than Saudi, you can see young Kuwaiti women in bikinis on the water front and no one objects.  Yet there are still some women in burqas, I assume without being required, that's ok with me.  I put on a burqa once, trying it out for Halloween!  Only wore it about 5 minutes.

The heading and stoning stuff, not so much.  Though on occasion my reptilian brain wants to see them brought back for a few individuals... not really.


JaniceM said:


> And that's the issue- most people have become civilized.. and socialized to know what is and isn't acceptable behavior... but unfortunately there are those who have not.


Absolutely!  We have really done an amazing job of learning behaviors that are not instinctual, even counter to our instincts.  Today's civilization would not exist had we not.  However there is still a bit of progress to be made.

This has turned into an interesting thread.  Agree with them or not I have appreciated all posts and opinions.


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## Nathan (Sep 22, 2022)

Barbara971 said:


> Do you mean it is genetically part of being a man or just something one man learns from another, so “we all just do it”?


Genetically encoded.


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## JaniceM (Sep 22, 2022)

Nathan said:


> Genetically encoded.


You _are _joking, aren't you?


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## Nathan (Sep 22, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> You _are _joking, aren't you?


No, not at all.   Men and women are programmed to be attracted to each other, or else propagation of the species would not take place.


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## Paco Dennis (Sep 22, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> You _are _joking, aren't you?


I think we are genetically encoded to reproduce.?


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## JaniceM (Sep 22, 2022)

Nathan said:


> No, not at all.   Men and women are programmed to be attracted to each other, or else propagation of the species would not take place.


Sorry, my mistake.. I thought you meant men were programmed to be leering creeps.


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## Paco Dennis (Sep 22, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Sorry, my mistake.. I thought you meant men were programmed to be leering creeps.


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## Nathan (Sep 22, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Sorry, my mistake.. I thought you meant men were programmed to be leering creeps.


No, no more than I would suggest that women were programmed to be leering creeps.


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## carouselsilver (Sep 22, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Sorry, my mistake.. I thought you meant men were programmed to be leering creeps.


Some of them are!


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## senior chef (Sep 22, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Your general viewpoint, though, reminded me of this idiot from decades ago:
> https://www.nytimes.com/1977/05/27/...consin-calls-rape-by-boy-normal-reaction.html
> 
> Viewpoints such as you express are more than misogynistic, they're dangerous.
> I certainly hope you don't have any kids to pass your 'ideas' to.


You need to RE-READ my post I said, "I DON"T AGREE with the idea of burka's.
Seriously though, try to be less emotional and be more rational.


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## Pepper (Sep 22, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Seriously though, try to be less emotional and be more rational.


Yeah @JaniceM how come you're not a guy?  You know, less emotional and be more rational.


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## grahamg (Sep 22, 2022)

Nathan said:


> Genetically encoded.


This chap (Desmond Morris) had a lot to say on the subject, but this article suggests his views are more disputed now than I'd thought:
https://www.theguardian.com/science...-50-desmond-morris-four-experts-assess-impact


Here he is being interviewed:


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## Barbara971 (Sep 23, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> And that's the issue-  most people have become civilized.. and socialized to know what is and isn't acceptable behavior... but unfortunately there are those who have not.


You are well spoken! I believe we need to evolve our behavior as we evolve as humans. The thing I find disturbing is that when women become upset or hurt with their Lookey Lou partner, THEY are now the problem, according to Lookey.


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## senior chef (Sep 24, 2022)

Barbara971 said:


> You are well spoken! I believe we need to evolve our behavior as we evolve as humans. The thing I find disturbing is that when women become upset or hurt with their Lookey Lou partner, THEY are now the problem, according to Lookey.


You can't truly believe that men will ever stop looking ?  There was a time, a hundred plus years ago, back in Victorian times, when men got aroused by seeing a "well turned ankle".  How much more so upon seeing a low cut blouse ...flashing boobs ?


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## Barbara971 (Sep 24, 2022)

senior chef said:


> You can't truly believe that men will ever stop looking ?  There was a time, a hundred plus years ago, back in Victorian times, when men got aroused by seeing a "well turned ankle".  How much more so upon seeing a low cut blouse ...flashing boob





senior chef said:


> You can't truly believe that men will ever stop looking ?  There was a time, a hundred plus years ago, back in Victorian times, when men got aroused by seeing a "well turned ankle".  How much more so upon seeing a low cut blouse ...flashing boobs ?


My post was no longer about you men. It was about the women, their feeling of inadequacy caused by men, and maybe expecting kindness and consideration. It does not surprise me that you have turned this back to yourself, making me the unreasonable one.


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## senior chef (Sep 24, 2022)

Barbara971 said:


> My post was no longer about you men. It was about the women, their feeling of inadequacy caused by men, and maybe expecting kindness and consideration. It does not surprise me that you have turned this back to yourself, making me the unreasonable one.


I don't recall ever saying you are unreasonable.  However, men are ALWAYS going to look. We might as well expect dogs to ignore the smell of cooking bacon.


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## grahamg (Sep 25, 2022)

senior chef said:


> I don't recall ever saying you are unreasonable.  However, men are ALWAYS going to look. We might as well expect dogs to ignore the smell of cooking bacon.


It is a strange one this.
Obviously men of our generation are always going to look, (though what many men or women might think I'd find attractive doesn't quite work for me these days, ultra fit, muscled bodies for example, modeled maybe on a famous pop star, as seen everywhere today).
However, I'd question whether the younger generation of men have quite the same ideas, (for good or ill), and I'm told many turn away from marriage in this country or abroad.


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## grahamg (Sep 25, 2022)

Barbara971 said:


> My post was no longer about you men. It was about the women, their feeling of inadequacy caused by men, and maybe expecting kindness and consideration. It does not surprise me that you have turned this back to yourself, making me the unreasonable one.


You have not posted unreasonable views in my opinion either, and in a rare example of my putting forward an "equality" argument, I'd suggest any husband would/should have an issue if they believed their missus found another man attractive (and/or vice versa, they saw a man taking a similar interest in their wife, though the more secure man wouldn't perhaps feel threatened by this kind of thing).

There are many ways women have their confidence undermined by partners I'm sure, though in my defence when I was once accused of this I did believe I was doing all in my power to reduce the stress my wife felt under, (by calming our fractious child).

All kinds of things can be unfairly turned against any of us, though the argument more men will be lookey loos seems incontrovertible, hence more men will get it in the neck from their partners, and women aren't about to recoil from making themselves look attractive, and my teenage years were made all the more entertaining by the arrival of girls in mini skirts on a local streets!


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