# Are Retiree's Living Too Frugally? Can We Treat Ourselves More?



## OneEyedDiva (Jan 5, 2018)

I cam across this AARP article entitled "Is It Time To Splurge?" Most of the time we see articles about how pre-retirees and retirees don't have enough saved if we don't have that million or millions. For so long the trend was writing about how we need to save, save, save and curtail our spending. This is one of the few articles I've seen that asks if we've taken it too far. What do you think? Could you afford to spend more, treat yourself more without putting your net egg and future in jeopardy? Or are you already treating yourself to your wants?
https://www.aarp.org/money/investing/info-2017/time-to-spend.html


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## Falcon (Jan 5, 2018)

I buy what I want/need.  Nary a problem.


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## Don M. (Jan 5, 2018)

We keep enough aside to provide a "cushion" if an unusual expense arises.  The kids are all doing fine, and not waiting for us to pass so they can "inherit" something.  Therefore, if we wake up to a day of nasty weather, or we are just getting bored...we might just head for the casino.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 5, 2018)

I could spend more but how many hot dogs can one person eat or how many shoes can one person wear?

As long as I have enough to be free from financial want and worry I'm good.

I do believe that the business of retirement investing and saving is skewed towards the accumulation phase and some additional emphasis should be placed on how best to manage spending or living off of your portfolio during retirement.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 5, 2018)

We buy everything we need or want. WE don't  need or want a new car and don't have expensive tastes. If we ever sell our house it will be to move to a smaller one. Except for a catastrophic event of some kind we are doing fine.


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## jujube (Jan 5, 2018)

I have a set amount of capital that I won't dip under.  If I have enough money "languishing" outside that set amount, I'll spend it on something I really, really _want_ that I don't really, really_ need_.  If I have to dip into the capital, then I do without.


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## Warrigal (Jan 5, 2018)

Strawberries are not that expensive. An occasional punnet is not an extravagance.


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## mathjak107 (Jan 6, 2018)

we set goal posts each year based on returns . if we have a great year like last year we get rewarded . if it is a crappy year ,the way our plan works is we only take 5% less than the previous year .

it is a nice system that avoids leaving to much unspent  as well as avoids to big a cut if markets are down ..

conventional retirement planning  is based on worst case outcomes so anything better can leave to much money left on the table unspent and not enjoyed .

following conventional wisdom of 4% inflation adjusted spending , using a 60/40 model has left  you with more than you started with 30 years later  90% of the time. it has left you with more than 2x what you started with 67% of the time and 3x 50% of the time .

throw in the fact that retiree spending tends to fall off as  we get older  if  we have discretionary spending and what  we no longer use or do helps defray costs in what goes up .  inflation adjusting is rarely needed every single year as we age . spending early on in retirement is a lot but by mid 70's it starts to fall off until falling off a cliff in our eighties when healthcare cost pick up . 

also life expectancy plays a roll too . while we should plan around 30 years most of us will not live that long so that adds money to the pot .

all i know is this is our 3rd year in retirement , i delayed social security until this past september  so we spent down 6 figures plus , for 3 years and as of last night we are way higher than we started out 3 years ago  and that includes buying a new car in december ..


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## retiredtraveler (Jan 6, 2018)

We generate, from our investments, more income than we actually use. But we're in that group of people who have been frugal for so many decades, that we still don't 'squander' money. We still shop sales. We have changed our travel a bit so that we now fly first class. But we'll 'agonize' over where to stay because we refuse to pay high rates for a hotel, or B&B, just to sleep there. Clothes still come from Sears and Penney's (although those stores are going away). When we eat out, we still go to 'family restaurants'. We get our coffee, if traveling, at McDonalds, not an expensive coffee shop.
   We could get a 'dream house' if we wanted,  or go out and purchase a Maserati. But we're comfortable where we are and keep our small home drive a hybrid car as we're long-time environmental activists.  Our carbon footprint is small on a day-to-day basis.
   What we are doing is gifting to the relatives. I'll be giving away my SS, when I finally decide to start taking it. We've dramatically increased our charitable contributions. The thing about having money is not that we want to find ways to spend it. We simply enjoy the fact that we're comfortable and don't have to make any tough choices or worry about expensive home or auto repairs. I had to spend a lot of hours in the library and later, on PC, to get our investments to this point. But it ended up with giving us security. 
Having that peace of mind is something so few people have and we're happy for that.


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## Knight (Jan 6, 2018)

Clearly the article is targeted towards people that have planned well for retirement. Knowing what assets and income are available are no mystery. Living long enough to understand that something unforseen/catastrophic can happen, doesn't have to mean living in fear and not enjoying life. 


Not to difficult to understand what comes in and what goes out either has an excess or deficit. Good planning should make it possible for excess to be the winner. Retired for 24 years this year, income other than Soc. Sec. projected to last until I'm 128 yrs. old and a 10% bump up in my MRD this year, translates to doing as we have been. Enjoying our lives and not hoarding the excess.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 7, 2018)

retiredtraveler said:


> We generate, from our investments, more income than we actually use. But we're in that group of people who have been frugal for so many decades, that we still don't 'squander' money. We still shop sales. We have changed our travel a bit so that we now fly first class. But we'll 'agonize' over where to stay because we refuse to pay high rates for a hotel, or B&B, just to sleep there. Clothes still come from Sears and Penney's (although those stores are going away). When we eat out, we still go to 'family restaurants'. We get our coffee, if traveling, at McDonalds, not an expensive coffee shop.
> We could get a 'dream house' if we wanted,  or go out and purchase a Maserati. But we're comfortable where we are and keep our small home drive a hybrid car as we're long-time environmental activists.  Our carbon footprint is small on a day-to-day basis.
> What we are doing is gifting to the relatives. I'll be giving away my SS, when I finally decide to start taking it. We've dramatically increased our charitable contributions. The thing about having money is not that we want to find ways to spend it. We simply enjoy the fact that we're comfortable and don't have to make any tough choices or worry about expensive home or auto repairs. I had to spend a lot of hours in the library and later, on PC, to get our investments to this point. But it ended up with giving us security.
> Having that peace of mind is something so few people have and we're happy for that.





Knight said:


> Clearly the article is targeted towards people that have planned well for retirement. Knowing what assets and income are available are no mystery. Living long enough to understand that something unforseen/catastrophic can happen, doesn't have to mean living in fear and not enjoying life.
> 
> Not to difficult to understand what comes in and what goes out either has an excess or deficit. Good planning should make it possible for excess to be the winner. Retired for 24 years this year, income other than Soc. Sec. projected to last until I'm 128 yrs. old and a 10% bump up in my MRD this year, translates to doing as we have been. Enjoying our lives and not hoarding the excess.



Retiredtraveler...in a way your philosophy is like mine. I shop frugally but don't deny myself my wants. Most of my clothes over the last few years have come from my favorite thrift-consignment shop that often has manufacturer's and/or store tags still on them or either the garments are like new. I also have plenty of well made classic clothes, some from decades ago. Still get compliments on those outfits. I will think twice before buying a "want" however. I am "boycotting" the airlines right now but don't hesitate to take vacations when we want. One thing that contributes to inexpensive vacationing is our timeshare and our exchange club affiliation. We have stayed in one bedroom suites for $137 for the _*week*_, sometimes at our home resort in Atlantic City, due to the exchange club's special Getaways.  We stayed in a 3 bedroom townhouse in Ocean City, Md. for $169 for the entire week. We can get these kinds of deals at resorts all over the world. I just need to decide to start flying again. We use our home resort somewhat like a second home and go there several times a year. Compared to the cost of oceanfront condos, I consider the timeshare to have been a steal because I got it for a deep discount, plus a no interest deal after heavy negotiating. It was paid off within a year and the maintenance fees are not bad. If we want to stay in the upgraded, "fancier" suite (available due to my 5 star ownership status) a one bedroom would be $450 for the entire week or $0 if we use our annual points allotment. Sometimes I go alone and book a studio suite at $97 (Getaway) or for a three or four days in the upgraded suite at $40 or $50 a night according to the season. All suites have cooktops, dishes, utensils, dishwashers, refrigerators, desks and HDTVs. To book just hotel rooms in a Marriott or Hyatt may cost hundreds for one night ...so I understand how you feel about hating to pay the hotel rates.  My charitable contributions are 14% of my net income. I am currently investing my SS and due to my pension, have no need to take distributions from my investments except RMDs which started this year. 

Knight...good planning is definitely the key.  As of yesterday, I've been retired for 20 years. Being only 70, I may still have another good 20 years or more to go. I continue to invest, rather than going crazy with spending, mostly in case I have to go into a nursing home. I cannot get LTC insurance. I also would like to leave a healthy chunk of change for my son. However, we are planning a cruise, a kitchen remodel and getting new floors throughout the apartment this year. 

 To everyone who are able to spend as you please....It's always good to read of fellow seniors who are living comfortably and enjoying life.


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## C'est Moi (Jan 7, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I could spend more but how many hot dogs can one person eat or how many shoes can one person wear?
> 
> As long as I have enough to be free from financial want and worry I'm good.
> 
> I do believe that the business of retirement investing and saving is skewed towards the accumulation phase and some additional emphasis should be placed on how best to manage spending or living off of your portfolio during retirement.



^^   This.   Except I do like lots of shoes.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 7, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> ^^   This.   Except I do like lots of shoes.



Chacun à son goût!


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## mathjak107 (Jan 7, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I could spend more but how many hot dogs can one person eat or how many shoes can one person wear?
> 
> As long as I have enough to be free from financial want and worry I'm good.
> 
> I do believe that the business of retirement investing and saving is skewed towards the accumulation phase and some additional emphasis should be placed on how best to manage spending or living off of your portfolio during retirement.



there is lots of information out there about developing  and living off your portfolio in retirement . top researchers like michael kitces , dr wade pfau , blanchette ,bernstein , all cater to helping retirees sort myth , mis-information and old school thinking from facts .

we always plan on doing more for our 5 grand kids when the spending on ourselves slow down . would love to take the entire family  on cruises or vacations every year for as long as we can as well as help with school etc .

this year markets were great so we would like to make a little distribution to each kid , let them enjoy it any way they want ..

i guarantee you , if someone handed just about everyone here 50k and said you must spend it , no one would have any issues spending it . in fact if they did it a few years in a row i bet you would be chomping at the bit for it .

money may not buy happiness but it certainly can buy a lot of different choices in life .


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## KingsX (Jan 7, 2018)

.

AARP is a liberal publication.

The first AARP magazine I read after I retired 10 years ago also advocated ****** promiscuity and legalizing marijuana.

I knew then there was nothing in AARP's bag of tricks that suited me.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 7, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> there is lots of information out there about developing  and living off your portfolio in retirement . top researchers like michael kitces , dr wade pfau , blanchette ,bernstein , all cater to helping retirees sort myth , mis-information and old school thinking from facts .
> 
> we always plan on doing more for our 5 grand kids when the spending on ourselves slow down . would love to take the entire family  on cruises or vacations every year for as long as we can as well as help with school etc .
> 
> ...



You bring up an interesting topic.

I often wonder if it is better to help family financially or if it is better to let them develop the skills they need to get along on their own.

I've seen many examples of young people being spoiled or of families that use money as a weapon to control the behavior of their family members and it never ends well.  

I'm not sure how you find the right balance of generosity, I suppose it depends on the people involved.
_
"The most important thing that parents can teach their children is how to get along without them."_ - Frank A. Clark


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## Lethe200 (Jan 11, 2018)

I worked for a while for an independent CFP. He was semi-retired and well-known locally by his peers. Like most really good fiduciary advisers he never advertised; his clients came by word of mouth and were often family members (e.g.; he was handling the children's and grandchildren's accounts of his original clients). 

He was fond of saying something that everyone should think about:
"I spend half my time trying to keep some clients from spending ALL their money. I spend the other half of my time trying to coach my other clients into SPENDING money on themselves now that they're retired!"

There was a really lovely older couple who were clients. The husband needed major surgery and then could go home but would need quite a bit of care - 24/7 for the first three weeks, minimum. They were well-off but very frugal, no kids. My boss had to argue with the wife for almost an hour to get her to hire a healthcare agency to provide nursing care.

The husband was a really big guy - easily 6'3" and at least 260 lbs or more. His wife was a slender 5'7". NO WAY could she have taken care of him by herself - but that was their first automatic reaction. "Oh, it'll be much too expensive! We'll manage by ourselves somehow!"

Fortunately, my boss was able to convince her that spending $350/day for a few weeks was the smart thing to do! Afterwards, the couple both thanked him and admitted they could not have managed alone.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 18, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> You bring up an interesting topic.
> 
> I often wonder if it is better to help family financially or if it is better to let them develop the skills they need to get along on their own.
> 
> ...



Aunt Bea, I have done a lot of helping family and extended family members, even a friend. If the individual has poor money management skills, lending or giving that person money does not change that. Consequently, often they wind up back in the same boat. I've gotten to the point that I no longer give that help to the extent I used to because I don't want to be an enabler. My son, who was working seven days a week and still struggling, always pays me back so I don't mind lending him money. But at some point it's better to let them sink or swim because they need to know what it is to separate wants from needs, sacrifice a bit (we did it) and begin to stand on their own. We do our young people a disservice when we don't teach them to do that.


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## needshave (Feb 23, 2018)

Aunt Bea....Such an interesting comment..And thought! We are currently looking for property in San Diego. We recently made a trip there from Ohio, which is a long flight. We had a connecting flight in Atlanta where I set next to an elderly gentleman in his 70's. We talked at length and his home is very small and in the Chula Vista area. We talked about our trip and my intentions. He shared with me his concerns about being frugal all his life and that he thought now, at this stage of his life, was a mistake. He has a son, in his late 40's whose family lives with them. His son has lived with him for almost 10 years. He only works part-time jobs and the daughter in law does not work. He has asked his son, what they intend to do. How are they planning to live in the future and retire? Their response was that they intended to live there, in his home, since it will be paid for. He said that with a nervous laugh. Then intend to pick up occasional jobs as needed. I asked, are you gifting the house to your son? He response was, it sure looks like it. Zack is expecting and planning for it.  He said he don't know how he would survive without it. Feeling as though I should try to get away from this now, an uncomfortable subject, I tried to change the subject hoping to end the conversation by saying, well if you're financially able to do that it would be very nice. He looked at me and said, I'm not, but what choice do I have. 

I felt very bad for him and it has been on my mind for weeks. I wish that very nice gentleman the very best.


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## OneEyedDiva (Feb 25, 2018)

needshave said:


> Aunt Bea....Such an interesting comment..And thought! We are currently looking for property in San Diego. We recently made a trip there from Ohio, which is a long flight. We had a connecting flight in Atlanta where I set next to an elderly gentleman in his 70's. We talked at length and his home is very small and in the Chula Vista area. We talked about our trip and my intentions. He shared with me his concerns about being frugal all his life and that he thought now, at this stage of his life, was a mistake. He has a son, in his late 40's whose family lives with them. His son has lived with him for almost 10 years. He only works part-time jobs and the daughter in law does not work. He has asked his son, what they intend to do. How are they planning to live in the future and retire? Their response was that they intended to live there, in his home, since it will be paid for. He said that with a nervous laugh. Then intend to pick up occasional jobs as needed. I asked, are you gifting the house to your son? He response was, it sure looks like it. Zack is expecting and planning for it.  He said he don't know how he would survive without it. Feeling as though I should try to get away from this now, an uncomfortable subject, I tried to change the subject hoping to end the conversation by saying, well if you're financially able to do that it would be very nice. He looked at me and said, I'm not, but what choice do I have.
> 
> I felt very bad for him and it has been on my mind for weeks. I wish that very nice gentleman the very best.



That's sad Needshave. I can't fathom how people have the gall to do what his son and DIL are doing! They obviously feel a sense of entitlement and I don't like it when people think that way. Hopefully they will at least help and care for him should his health and abilities fail. I once had a supervisor who used to talk about his friend who's mother had a house at the shore. The guy never worked a day in his life...instead lived with his mother; he must've been pushing 40. Talk about a slacker! Good luck with finding a place in San Diego.


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## KingsX (Feb 27, 2018)

.

I lived frugally so I could retire early [age 55.]

Now that I am retired,  I treat myself every day.   

Instead of getting up at the crack of dawn to drive in big city traffic to a job where my every move is supervised and monitored on a spreadsheet... now I sleep late,  go out anywhere I want for a leisurely lunch,  do a little shopping, and play on the computer. 

 Life is good.

One of my supervisors who also retired early told me... now the hardest decision she makes, is where to go for lunch.


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## Ken N Tx (Feb 27, 2018)

jujube said:


> I have a set amount of capital that I won't dip under.  If I have enough money "languishing" outside that set amount, I'll spend it on something I really, really _want_ that I don't really, really_ need_.  If I have to dip into the capital, then I do without.


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## Butterfly (Feb 27, 2018)

needshave said:


> Aunt Bea....Such an interesting comment..And thought! We are currently looking for property in San Diego. We recently made a trip there from Ohio, which is a long flight. We had a connecting flight in Atlanta where I set next to an elderly gentleman in his 70's. We talked at length and his home is very small and in the Chula Vista area. We talked about our trip and my intentions. He shared with me his concerns about being frugal all his life and that he thought now, at this stage of his life, was a mistake. He has a son, in his late 40's whose family lives with them. His son has lived with him for almost 10 years. He only works part-time jobs and the daughter in law does not work. He has asked his son, what they intend to do. How are they planning to live in the future and retire? Their response was that they intended to live there, in his home, since it will be paid for. He said that with a nervous laugh. Then intend to pick up occasional jobs as needed. I asked, are you gifting the house to your son? He response was, it sure looks like it. Zack is expecting and planning for it.  He said he don't know how he would survive without it. Feeling as though I should try to get away from this now, an uncomfortable subject, I tried to change the subject hoping to end the conversation by saying, well if you're financially able to do that it would be very nice. He looked at me and said, I'm not, but what choice do I have.
> 
> I felt very bad for him and it has been on my mind for weeks. I wish that very nice gentleman the very best.



I would get those people out of there one way or another, and I would announce that I was leaving the house to the Humane Association or something, whether I was or not.  I do not mind helping out, but I cannot abide moochers.


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## KingsX (Feb 27, 2018)

needshave said:


> Aunt Bea....Such an interesting comment..And thought! We are currently looking for property in San Diego. We recently made a trip there from Ohio, which is a long flight. We had a connecting flight in Atlanta where I set next to an elderly gentleman in his 70's. We talked at length and his home is very small and in the Chula Vista area. We talked about our trip and my intentions. He shared with me his concerns about being frugal all his life and that he thought now, at this stage of his life, was a mistake. He has a son, in his late 40's whose family lives with them. His son has lived with him for almost 10 years. He only works part-time jobs and the daughter in law does not work. He has asked his son, what they intend to do. How are they planning to live in the future and retire? Their response was that they intended to live there, in his home, since it will be paid for. He said that with a nervous laugh. Then intend to pick up occasional jobs as needed. I asked, are you gifting the house to your son? He response was, it sure looks like it. Zack is expecting and planning for it.  He said he don't know how he would survive without it. Feeling as though I should try to get away from this now, an uncomfortable subject, I tried to change the subject hoping to end the conversation by saying, well if you're financially able to do that it would be very nice. He looked at me and said, I'm not, but what choice do I have.
> 
> I felt very bad for him and it has been on my mind for weeks. I wish that very nice gentleman the very best.




My son lived with me until he was 38.  But he was mentally disabled and had seizures [he died during a seizure.]
Although he never worked a day in his life,  being his caregiver made me even more responsible with my money.
I credit my son who helped make me the person I have become and enabled me to persevere against all odds.




OneEyedDiva said:


> That's sad Needshave. I can't fathom how people have the gall to do what his son and DIL are doing! They obviously feel a sense of entitlement and I don't like it when people think that way. Hopefully they will at least help and care for him should his health and abilities fail. I once had a supervisor who used to talk about his friend who's mother had a house at the shore. The guy never worked a day in his life...instead lived with his mother; he must've been pushing 40. Talk about a slacker! Good luck with finding a place in San Diego.




Some self-centered offspring have been known to murder their parents to get their inheritance early.


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## oldman (Feb 27, 2018)

I have been very lucky financially. I had a great job as an airline pilot for 34 years and my wife was a Professor and a department head at a major university here on the east coast. All that and I inherited a great deal from my parents. 

I think my best friend said it best when he told me that I was one lucky SOB. I don’t condone that language, but I can’t argue with him either.


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## Capt Lightning (Mar 1, 2018)

I was aware that my parents didn't have a lot of money.  I was determined that I wouldn't be like that , but I did inherit their ability to manage money, and save too.  I had a good career in IT and together with Mrs.L, we managed a good life and accumulated  adequate savings.  Now we're retired, I can't shake off that need to save.  Mrs.L says that we have worked hard and we should be treating ourselves.  She's right (as usual), but spending money really hurts


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 1, 2018)

Capt Lightning said:


> I was aware that my parents didn't have a lot of money.  I was determined that I wouldn't be like that , but I did inherit their ability to manage money, and save too.  I had a good career in IT and together with Mrs.L, we managed a good life and accumulated  adequate savings.  Now we're retired, I can't shake off that need to save.  Mrs.L says that we have worked hard and we should be treating ourselves.  She's right (as usual), but spending money really hurts



_"I would rather have people laugh at my economies than weep for my extravagance." - _King Oscar II of Sweden


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