# How Much To Keep In A Bank?



## OneEyedDiva (Apr 6, 2017)

What percent of assets (not counting a home) do you think should be in a bank account when a 70 year old person's expenses are covered by pension and social security with money left over to save/invest?


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## Lon (Apr 6, 2017)

ZERO  other than a Checking Account and age doesn't matter.


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## Knight (Apr 6, 2017)

Since I manage the money with my wife in agreement, bank use is for a place to have the pension, soc. sec. and RMD's deposited. Electronic in, electronic out to pay the bills. What we consider to be excess is transferred to a money market account in my wifes name where she has her portfolios. By excess I mean all above what is in the bank to pay the bills and available via an ATM for whatever we want to do for fun. The accounts are set up to automatically transfer to the surviving spouse, I expect her to outlive me so the setup is to eliminate a delay in paperwork.

I credit my wife with decision making about our future when we were in our mid 30's. Due to her determination we live well. Like always though value for the money spent is foremost. Right now with pensions, soc. sec. and the RMD [required mandatory distribution] from our traditional and self directed IRA portfolios the 8 sources of income far exceed what we made during our years working.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 6, 2017)

My Pension and Social Security don't cover my expenses and I'm very insecure about money so I keep approx. 25% in cash.  

It costs me quite a bit in lost opportunity but it's an expense that I'm willing to bear.

Cash gets the job done when the going gets tough.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Apr 6, 2017)

I certainly can't add much info on this because I'm not sure. I can say that I  learned my lesson about keeping money in long term CD accounts. The hubby and I were going along quite nicely on our social security checks and a small amount of interest from his retirement fund.  Our home is paid for and so far no horrible health issues. In 2000, my Mom passed away and left me an inheritance of a moderate sum of money. Because we didn't need it, and I am deathly afraid of stocks or anything risky, I kept putting it in CD's. Of course the interest dropped to next to nothing so when they matured I put them in a longer term for a better interest rate. I guess I was thinking I would last forever. 3 months ago I needed new hearing aids which were almost $5000.00. This was quite a chunk to come up with all at once. There is a very high penalty for taking the funds early. Luckily a CD matured and I was able to get the money for the new aids. Now I am going to have to figure out what to do as the other two I have mature. I know if I put it in stocks I will never sleep again and the interest rate for money markets is so low.


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## Knight (Apr 6, 2017)

Ruth & others with time to think about what is right for yourselves.


When it comes to stocks and investing only you know what you can risk. Tips and advice offered on the internet IMO not a good way to decide your financial fate. 

But for the sake of pointing out the differance between CD's & a quality company I'll use this example.

Dividends - Duke Energy 
This is the 90th consecutive year that Duke Energy has paid a quarterly cash dividend on its common stock.
https://www.duke-energy.com/our-company/investors/stock/dividends-duke-energy

Next would be capital gains. 
Back in the year 2000 DUK was selling at around $25.00 a share. A $5000.00 purchase would have bought you 200 shares. In 16 years the reinvested dividend would have bumped that amount up some but for the sake of this example I'll leave the 200 shares as the represented amount to draw from. I purposely wrote draw from. That is explained in the last paragraph. 
Original cost $5000.00 = 200 shares

CLOSE 4:02 PM EDT 04/06/17 
$82.59 USD 
http://quotes.wsj.com/DUK

200 X 82.59 = $16,518.00

Selling enough to cover the cost of your hearing aids would leave you with stock, about $11,000.00 dollars worth.  If not needed that residual amount would be increasing due to dividend reinvesting. In other words a nice nest egg for emergencies. 

Tolerance for risk, research and goals drive the choices we make.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Apr 6, 2017)

Thanks,Knight. It looks impressive and it is, but the thought of the ups and downs would have my fingers chewed to the nub. I need to think hard and long on this.


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## mathjak107 (Apr 7, 2017)

enough to cover a month or two's bills at the least .

with a fraud attempt on our fidelity account it was shut down for more than 2 weeks . good thing we had a local bank to get money and pay bills from


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## mathjak107 (Apr 7, 2017)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> I certainly can't add much info on this because I'm not sure. I can say that I  learned my lesson about keeping money in long term CD accounts. The hubby and I were going along quite nicely on our social security checks and a small amount of interest from his retirement fund.  Our home is paid for and so far no horrible health issues. In 2000, my Mom passed away and left me an inheritance of a moderate sum of money. Because we didn't need it, and I am deathly afraid of stocks or anything risky, I kept putting it in CD's. Of course the interest dropped to next to nothing so when they matured I put them in a longer term for a better interest rate. I guess I was thinking I would last forever. 3 months ago I needed new hearing aids which were almost $5000.00. This was quite a chunk to come up with all at once. There is a very high penalty for taking the funds early. Luckily a CD matured and I was able to get the money for the new aids. Now I am going to have to figure out what to do as the other two I have mature. I know if I put it in stocks I will never sleep again and the interest rate for money markets is so low.







Knight said:


> Ruth & others with time to think about what is right for yourselves.





Knight said:


> When it comes to stocks and investing only you know what you can risk. Tips and advice offered on the internet IMO not a good way to decide your financial fate.
> 
> But for the sake of pointing out the differance between CD's & a quality company I'll use this example.
> 
> ...




stocks are stocks no matter how they distribute your own money back to you . if the op does not want to be in stocks the fact a stock gives you back a piece of your investment dollars without you having to sell a piece does not change a thing .

in fact you keep hearing about just buy the dividend aristocrats . 

 what constitutes this group changes all the time so get ready for lots of selling trying to keep up as they get bumped and replaced AFTER THE FACT THEY DID NOT LIVE UP TO EXPECTATIONS . you could be behind the curve here very easily .

these dividend aristocrats are not somehow immune to all the things that effect company's and stocks . Just like other companies, their outcomes change.

in 2009 there were 52 stocks that met the group’s strict criteria.

As of 2012, there were 51.

But of those 51, 13 were different than the original set. So over the course of just 3 years, there was a 27% change in the group’s composition. 

in fact going back to 1989's list :

Of those 26, seven are still on the list today, ten were removed because they either cut or froze their dividend, four were removed for an unknown reason, and the remainder were aquired at some point. So at least ten of the 26 had an outcome that is different from the assumption of dividend growth every year through thick and thin.

 dividend stocks are a fine investment vehicle, but one needs to practice reasonable diversification and also own some high-quality bonds when in retirement. dividends are not a substitute for interest bearing instruments . they are stocks ,plain and simple . . i never recommend anyone , not in to investing ,buy any individual stocks , ever . market and interest rate risk is  more than enough without taking on individual company risk too . especially for someone risk averse.

there are enough ways to structure a conservative diversified portfolio without taking on the whims of a particular company .   some models can even profit in a recession or depression as well as prosperity so the outcome of markets does not matter that much . 

i have about 37% in a portfolio that is pretty much bullet proof. that is my last line of defense . it can profit no matter what happens . it strives to generate positive real returns whether a recession or high inflation .

 the  other 63% is   broken up in to  3 different portfolio's .

a short term income oriented  portfolio for current spending ,  a growth and income model  for 6-10 years out and  a growth model  for eating in 11-30 years . that lets me optimize the investments for each time frame .

then i just keep a small piece for my playing and speculating in individual company stocks i short term trade for quick profits . more fun than serious investing .


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## Victor (Apr 7, 2017)

What do you count as a bank account? Checking and savings only?


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## mathjak107 (Apr 7, 2017)

i count money market ,checking and savings


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## Knight (Apr 7, 2017)

mathjak107 said:


> stocks are stocks no matter how they distribute your own money back to you . if the op does not want to be in stocks the fact a stock gives you back a piece of your investment dollars without you having to sell a piece does not change a thing.


True.
Pointing out potential is not the same as giving advice to purchase dividend aristocrats.
I wrote this before using DUK as an example.
Quote
"When it comes to stocks and investing only you know what you can risk. Tips and advice offered on the internet IMO not a good way to decide your financial fate."

I think many that access this site can look at our input and see value in both posts. Risk vs. reward is something each has to weigh for themselves. I'm pretty sure everyone understands there is no sure bet when it comes to the stock market. 

We began investing about 46 years ago and had some bumps along the way. But overall success due to investing as I posted has us living well. There is a calculator that projects when a MRD will be fully paid. My two MRD's will be empty when I reach 128 years old, my wifes are a little longer.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 7, 2017)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> I certainly can't add much info on this because I'm not sure. I can say that I  learned my lesson about keeping money in long term CD accounts. The hubby and I were going along quite nicely on our social security checks and a small amount of interest from his retirement fund.  Our home is paid for and so far no horrible health issues. In 2000, my Mom passed away and left me an inheritance of a moderate sum of money. Because we didn't need it, and I am deathly afraid of stocks or anything risky, I kept putting it in CD's. Of course the interest dropped to next to nothing so when they matured I put them in a longer term for a better interest rate. I guess I was thinking I would last forever. 3 months ago I needed new hearing aids which were almost $5000.00. This was quite a chunk to come up with all at once. There is a very high penalty for taking the funds early. Luckily a CD matured and I was able to get the money for the new aids. Now I am going to have to figure out what to do as the other two I have mature. I know if I put it in stocks I will never sleep again and the interest rate for money markets is so low.


Ruth one of the rules of investing is that one has to do what makes him/her comfortable. If you feel that investing in stocks would make you that uneasy, then you shouldn't do it. BUT if you ever decide to get your feet wet, a safer way to do it with a bit less risk is to invest in ETF's or mutual funds that have a tried and true very good returns, not that the same level of returns is guaranteed. Because over time, even with downturns, stocks (and I am including ETFs & mutual funds here) have still come out ahead. I have a friend who got burned in the last bear market so he keeps talking about taking a lot of money out and adding it to his already high bank balance. (From what he told me, his former broker really messed up). So now having more in his bank account is what will make him feel comfortable and more secure. Even though he has a broker he feels more confident in now, I will not try to talk him out of giving up those higher returns for the returns CD's pay. BTW, the advice I always read about CDs is to layer the maturity dates so you're not stuck waiting for [them] to mature.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 7, 2017)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Ruth one of the rules of investing is that one has to do what makes him/her comfortable. If you feel that investing in stocks would make you that uneasy, then you shouldn't do it. BUT if you ever decide to get your feet wet, a safer way to do it with a bit less risk is to invest in ETF's or mutual funds that have a tried and true very good returns, not that the same level of returns is guaranteed. Because over time, even with downturns, stocks (and I am including ETFs & mutual funds here) have still come out ahead. I have a friend who got burned in the last bear market so he keeps talking about taking a lot of money out and adding it to his already high bank balance. (From what he told me, his former broker really messed up). So now having more in his bank account is what will make him feel comfortable and more secure. Even though he has a broker he feels more confident in now, I will not try to talk him out of giving up those higher returns for the returns CD's pay. BTW, the advice I always read about CDs is to layer the maturity dates so you're not stuck waiting for [them] to mature.



Good advice!

The old idea of not investing money that you will need in the next five years or that you can't afford to lose is still valid, as we get older we don't have the time or extra money to correct our mistakes.

Buying ETF's, no load index mutual funds, no load balanced funds are a great way to participate in the market.  I would go with a low cost broker like Vanguard, select a fund and make the minimum investment required then gradually add to it every month or when I got a small windfall of some kind.  Consider skimming the interest on your CD's when they mature and investing that money, then renew the certificates original amount.  *I would not take my life savings and just plop it into the market.  *Finally if the whole idea of the market makes you uncomfortable then just keep doing what you know works for you.  In a few years it won't matter if any of us were in or out of the market, LOL!  

Good luck!


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 8, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> Good advice!
> 
> The old idea of not investing money that you will need in the next five years or that you can't afford to lose is still valid, as we get older we don't have the time or extra money to correct our mistakes.
> 
> ...


Aunt Bea. I asked the question because I'm still contributing to bank and non-IRA accounts. I read an article that reminded me that if I continue my planned ratio I'd be putting far too much in a pittance interest bearing savings account (basically paying .001) as opposed to my investments which have done well, even in downturns. I'd describe myself as moderately aggressive. I don't panic when the markets go crazy because they always bounce back and I may never need to take money out. I'm Muslim and we do not deal in interest...we're (not supposed to) pay it or charge it, so CDs are out, so are bonds. But we can have dividend and capital gains paying equity investments (which I favor) as long as they are not in industries like porn or gambling. No pig farms either.  I have Vanguard accounts as well as with three other brokerages, all of which have more user friendly websites than Vanguard.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 9, 2017)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Aunt Bea. I asked the question because I'm still contributing to bank and non-IRA accounts. I read an article that reminded me that if I continue my planned ratio I'd be putting far too much in a pittance interest bearing savings account (basically paying .001) as opposed to my investments which have done well, even in downturns. I'd describe myself as moderately aggressive. I don't panic when the markets go crazy because they always bounce back and I may never need to take money out. I'm Muslim and we do not deal in interest...we're (not supposed to) pay it or charge it, so CDs are out, so are bonds. But we can have dividend and capital gains paying equity investments (which I favor) as long as they are not in industries like porn or gambling. No pig farms either.  I have Vanguard accounts as well as with three other brokerages, all of which have more user friendly websites than Vanguard.



OED, I didn't know that Muslims don't deal in interest.   I learned something today, thank you for that!


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 13, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> OED, I didn't know that Muslims don't deal in interest.   I learned something today, thank you for that!


Aunt Bea...interest, known as Riba is considered to be evil because thousands of years go, it kept the poor people poor and made the rich people even more rich. We have but to see today what exorbitant interest rates are doing to people. Some are losing their homes, others are mired in credit card debt. Islam has a system in place whereby people can borrow money interest free to buy a home, for instance. I don't know how available that system is here in the west though. There are some exceptions with modern society being what it is as to under what circumstances and how much interest is acceptable. It is suggested that we donate any interest we've accumulated to a non Muslim charity.


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## rkunsaw (Dec 24, 2017)

We only have a checking account at the bank. Our pensions and social security are direct deposit and I receive one small check each month which I take to the bank to cash. We don't spend much so the checking account builds up over time. When it gets above 5 thousand I'll start looking at the stock market to see what to do with the excess. Then I'll have my financial advisor buy whatever stock I decide on and I'll withdraw that amount from my checking.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 26, 2017)

Victor said:


> What do you count as a bank account? Checking and savings only?


Oh Wow Victor...your response was months ago but somehow I missed it. Sorry! I don't login here on a regular basis.  I count savings and checking accounts.


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## Colleen (Jan 1, 2018)

My husband is 77 and I just turned 71. We have been retired since 2001. We had investments way back when but lost most of it in 2008 when everything went down hill. Since we've been living on his pension and our SS we haven't re-invested because we're afraid of losing it again. We didn't buy a house until we were in our 50's because his work kept us moving around so we're still making a house payment and a car payment. After monthly bills are paid (usually no credit card debt) we have about $1500 that I am able to keep around with $500 in cash and the rest goes in a savings with Ally, which is earning interest over 1% right now. 

I've thought about mutuals but isn't it a little late for us to start investing since it takes forever to see a return?


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## mathjak107 (Jan 1, 2018)

it takes forever to see a return ? what do you call 2008 until now ?  markets tripled .

bad investor behavior lost your money by bailing  , not markets .

but at this point i think no more than a 30/70 mix is appropriate.   even something like the fidelity insight  income model from the fidelity insight newsletter would be good . it is about 27% equities and 65% less volatile than the s&p 500.

it returned 6.50%  last year and is about 75% assorted bond funds ,. it holds mostly bond  funds that are less sensitive to rate increases .

i use that and the current year in  a bank and money market for spending this new year .

any money i need in 20-30 years to eat is in a 60/40 growth and income model . at 71 you still have money you will not eat with for 20- 25 years god willing .that is still long term money.

the question is really how much are you drawing off this to live ? that really determines what you need to do .


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## Colleen (Jan 1, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> it takes forever to see a return ? what do you call 2008 until now ?  markets tripled .
> 
> bad investor behavior lost your money by bailing  , not markets .
> 
> ...



Where were you in 2008 when I needed you???  haha. I've always been good at saving but I never understood (and still don't!) investments. My parents lived paycheck to paycheck and my mother was a saver but we never had any money left for investing. I worked from 19 years old to 62 and once again it was live from paycheck to paycheck. We had an adviser in CA in the 80's but no one after 2008. We had very little left and we were afraid of losing any more so we withdrew it from our mutuals and never invested again. We know we should have just bit the bullet and left it but we didn't. My husband is not very good with money. He can hoard it like crazy but he's clueless about investing...like me. I will check out Fidelity...thanks.


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## mathjak107 (Jan 1, 2018)

as i always say , you don't need to know everything or even anything .you just need to know who the smarter people are .

i can put portfolio's together in my sleep but i have used a newsletter for 30 years to keep me from myself .

i am never happy being  average at anything and i would always tinker and try to beat the markets at their own game. i would always plot my next move and 2nd guess the last one .

then i came upon the fidelity insight newsletter and i gave them a try calling the shots .

all the burden was off me now . i no longer had to have the weight of what to do on my shoulders .

so when 2008 came they held our hands and kept us from bailing out when there was a fire and everyone else was running for the exits . the burden was not on us to decide to flee or not .so  with that we rode it out and are now higher than ever . we have been spending more than 6 figures for 3 years now while i delayed  ss . i just took ss in october at 65 . but we are higher today than the day i retired .

so discipline is key , not finding some magical investment


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## mathjak107 (Jan 1, 2018)

Colleen said:


> Where were you in 2008 when I needed you???  haha. I've always been good at saving but I never understood (and still don't!) investments. My parents lived paycheck to paycheck and my mother was a saver but we never had any money left for investing. I worked from 19 years old to 62 and once again it was live from paycheck to paycheck. We had an adviser in CA in the 80's but no one after 2008. We had very little left and we were afraid of losing any more so we withdrew it from our mutuals and never invested again. We know we should have just bit the bullet and left it but we didn't. My husband is not very good with money. He can hoard it like crazy but he's clueless about investing...like me. I will check out Fidelity...thanks.




what is the draw rate you are pulling from your own resources ?


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## Colleen (Jan 1, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> what is the draw rate you are pulling from your own resources ?



OK...I'm not too smart, so you have to speak English...haha. If you mean...what are you withdrawing from savings to live, the answer is nothing. We have not touched our savings. As we get older, who knows what's ahead and even though we are in good health (thank you, God!), life is unpredictable.


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## mathjak107 (Jan 1, 2018)

well typically when you are not living off the money you have two choices .  you can invest aggressively for heirs  ,charities and fun money or very conservatively since either way it does not matter  to your existence


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## KingsX (Jan 1, 2018)

Lon said:


> ZERO  other than a Checking Account and age doesn't matter.




I'm curious,  where do you recommend people keep the other 95% of their money.

.


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## KingsX (Jan 1, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> OED, I didn't know that Muslims don't deal in interest.   I learned something today, thank you for that!




In the Bible,  loaning at interest is forbidden between Israelites... but allowed with foreigners.

Deuteronomy 23:19-20

.


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## KingsX (Jan 1, 2018)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> I certainly can't add much info on this because I'm not sure. I can say that I  learned my lesson about keeping money in long term CD accounts. The hubby and I were going along quite nicely on our social security checks and a small amount of interest from his retirement fund.  Our home is paid for and so far no horrible health issues. In 2000, my Mom passed away and left me an inheritance of a moderate sum of money. Because we didn't need it, and I am deathly afraid of stocks or anything risky, I kept putting it in CD's. Of course the interest dropped to next to nothing so when they matured I put them in a longer term for a better interest rate. I guess I was thinking I would last forever. 3 months ago I needed new hearing aids which were almost $5000.00. This was quite a chunk to come up with all at once. There is a very high penalty for taking the funds early. Luckily a CD matured and I was able to get the money for the new aids. Now I am going to have to figure out what to do as the other two I have mature. I know if I put it in stocks I will never sleep again and the interest rate for money markets is so low.




If one is going to keep a lot of money in CDs... the expert advice is to "ladder" several different CDs 
that expire at various due dates.  That way,  your money is more readily available for emergencies.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/building-perfect-cd-ladder/

For an IRA CD, one might arrange with the financial institution to pay you the periodic interest...
instead of the interest compounding back into the IRA CD. 

.


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## NancyNGA (Jan 1, 2018)

I didn't even know banks still had savings accounts.


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## mathjak107 (Jan 1, 2018)

KingsX said:


> I'm curious,  where do you recommend people keep the other 95% of their money.
> 
> .


No one should be recommending a thing for anyone else. We should only say what we do  or speak in general terms .

what you should do is based on info we don't know . What is your draw rate ,  your pucker factor , your total situation , is it money you are living on or mostly money for heirs ?   There can be a whole lot that is considered as far as what to do with the money.

that does not mean we don't have opinions as far as what you may want to do. As for me I would not hold more than the current years spending in cash instruments. Everything else is in a portfolio of about 40-50% diversified funds and the rest assorted bond funds of all types . Many are less interest rate sensitive today because rates are rising


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## Gary O' (Jan 1, 2018)

Since retirement, my lady and I have (literally) socked away our savings (in a sock), in spite of spending (to us) some major coins on building materials.

It’s not that I don’t trust banks or savings institutions (I don’t) but that I’ve grown accustom to piling up money…and looking at it, much like Silas Marner. 

It’s not much, and will not become more than $40-50K in a couple years.
If I became aggressive and wished to pile up a sum, I’d buy raw land and build cabins on them (and I may), as they’re hot right now..but go thru the aggravation of dealing in stocks or putting money in a bank? What fun is that?
I’ve come to detest financial institution’s/broker’s ways of pestering when I do invest.

We spend little, need little, and hope to leave our offspring a sum to share.


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## Colleen (Jan 1, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Since retirement, my lady and I have (literally) socked away our savings (in a sock), in spite of spending (to us) some major coins on building materials.
> 
> It’s not that I don’t trust banks or savings institutions (I don’t) but that I’ve grown accustom to piling up money…and looking at it, much like Silas Marner.
> 
> ...



I don't like banks either but they are a necessary evil when it comes to automatic pension and SS deposits. We deal with a small local bank that knows us by name when we walk in (which isn't very often). 

When I was growing up (in the 50's) my parents never had a checking account and my mother kept most of their cash in a Calumet baking soda tin in the freezer in the basement and she kept the freezer locked . Talk about "cold cash"....haha. They paid all their bills with cash and bought groceries with cash...no checks. It wasn't until my father passed away in '87 that she finally got a checking account. How times have changed. No one wants you to pay with checks any more...let alone cash.


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## Butterfly (Jan 1, 2018)

Colleen said:


> I don't like banks either but they are a necessary evil when it comes to automatic pension and SS deposits. We deal with a small local bank that knows us by name when we walk in (which isn't very often).
> 
> When I was growing up (in the 50's) my parents never had a checking account and my mother kept most of their cash in a Calumet baking soda tin in the freezer in the basement and she kept the freezer locked . Talk about "cold cash"....haha. They paid all their bills with cash and bought groceries with cash...no checks. It wasn't until my father passed away in '87 that she finally got a checking account. How times have changed. *No one wants you to pay with checks any more*...let alone cash.



Interesting you mentioned that -- Just this last few months I have seen signs at cash registers in stores in which I regularly trade that say "no personal checks accepted."  I asked one of the cashiers why, and she said it was due to the increasing number of NSF or fraudulent checks they had been getting.  They still take $$$ though.


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## Gary O' (Jan 1, 2018)

Colleen said:


> I don't like banks either but they are a necessary evil when it comes to automatic pension and SS deposits. We deal with a small local bank that knows us by name when we walk in (which isn't very often)



Oh,I have checking and savings
The savings has a stagnant $1000
The checking is for auto deposit/pay (love that)
and purchase paperless recpts
Haven’t written a check for months, maybe years
I figger one day soon it’ll be called something besides checking
Maybe Otto or Deb or Chip acct


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## mathjak107 (Jan 2, 2018)

credit card companies have been offering business 10k to take no cash .

we charge as much as we can  today . the points we get from our credit card strategy is insane . we can get as much as 7% back on different categories. once you start charging everything you can the points can be worth thousands , with out a penny in interest .


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## rkunsaw (Jan 2, 2018)

I pay for everything I can with credit cards. The cash back mounts up and is free money because I never pay interest. Several local businesses around here don't take credit cards though but will take cash or checks.


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## mathjak107 (Jan 2, 2018)

we have a strategy we use with our cards . we have thousands of dollars in points for traveling .

we use the chase trinity . we use the chase freedom , the freedom unlimited and the sapphire reserve card .

the freedom has 5% back categories every  quarter , the unlimited pays 1.50% on everything else , the reserve pays 3% on travel and dinning .

however all points can be transferred to the reserve where they get a 50% boost when used for travel through the chase travel site .

the 5% becomes 7% , the 1.50% becomes 2.25% , beating my 2% back fidelity card and the 3% on the reserve becomes  4.50% .

we got the reserve card in october and have 150,000 points for travel  already  banked .


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## Gary O' (Jan 2, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> we have thousands of dollars in points for traveling



Well…now I’m a bit sad…almost.
We just don’t spend enough to get those piles of money
A young gal at the grocery checkout began pestering me on why I don’t have a rewards card.
I said ‘look in my cart, that’s two week’s worth’

Guess she figgered out all my herself toothpaste, some oil, sugar, salt wouldn’t get me much in the rewards dept


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## mathjak107 (Jan 2, 2018)

well we like to travel so we do very well and get our moneys worth for sure . it can be surprising though how much you can charge and how much in rewards you get just on the things you buy daily .


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## Gary O' (Jan 2, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> well we like to travel so we do very well and get our moneys worth for sure . it can be surprising though how much you can charge and how much in rewards you get just on the things you buy daily .




guess in the travel dept I consider myself already there
and don't wish to go anywhere I can't get back before dark


I do think you guys are making the economy go 'round
...and appreciate it

_'it can be surprising though how much you can charge and how much in rewards you get just on the things you buy daily' 

_We buy weekly, monthly in winter
stores are 50 mi from the cabin
I did the math
our expenditures just don't get it


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## retiredtraveler (Jan 2, 2018)

> I pay for everything I can with credit cards. The cash back mounts up and is free money because I never pay interest.......



Yup. We started that almost 40 years ago. However, it wasn't until recently that we changed the utilities to be paid via CC on an automatic basis. We only have one utility that won't take a cc. Most of our non-travel entertainment expenses (eating out, theatre) is covered by the cash back we get. Plus, it helps with the credit score, which gives us better deals when purchasing a car.
   To answer the OP, we keep very little more in the bank than we need to pay for everything. We're usually a good $1500 in excess of what we will take out in a month, just to be sure there are no overdrafts. We use a local bank and go a couple of times a year to get some cash, which we use very little of.


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## mathjak107 (Jan 2, 2018)

unfortunately you have many who think all debt is bad debt and they have a skewed view of using credit responsibly to your advantage. . any time i can get what amounts to a rebate for doing nothing i will do it .

heck chase handed us 1500 bucks in benefits for simply taking a sapphire reserve card and a chase private client account ..


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## Lethe200 (Jan 2, 2018)

>>They still take $$$ though. - Butterfly>>

A small but growing # of retail places in our area are starting to post "no cash OR checks" signs. Especially in marginal neighborhoods, businesses that are open late at night are deciding they don't want the risks to their employees in addition to $$$ losses.

Personally we just let the money flow in and out again. Our pensions/distributions are sent ACH to our checking, and a modest portion then is sent ACH to our savings accts, one of which is for paying property taxes. 

The remainder gets spent, either on the usual overhead (utilities, gas for the car, insurance policies, food, etc.) or used for discretionary pleasures like dining out, movies, books/e-books, or travel.

We were focusing on points at Barnes & Noble for a number of years because we buy so many books. As we have shifted to e-books, we are now using our Amazon/Chase card more because it accumulates a cash credit towards Amazon purchases. Since we're heavy Prime users the credit comes in handy (when I remember to use it - one-click and e-book purchases aren't eligible).


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## mathjak107 (Jan 2, 2018)

chase said they lost 300 million last year in 2017 on the sapphire reserve . but they hope to make money this year now that many perks are paid for . the issue they had besides the perks is the customers who take the sapphire reserve don't pay interest .

on the other hand the reserve has increased usage on the other chase cards like we use it . you can get all these points on the other cards , shift them to the sapphire and they get a 50% increase when used for travel .

normally we would have used the 2% fidelity card but using the chase 1.50% back card , moving it to the sapphire gets it a 50% boost 

it


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## HipGnosis (Jan 4, 2018)

I keep enough in checking to keep the bank from charging any monthly fees.
I have a savings account with a credit union because they have the best loan rates - my mortgage is with them.  And it gives me somewhere local to transfer money from my investment accounts.

If you have money in 'cash' accounts, you can put some of it to use by using it to take advantage of bank account bonuses - some banks pay cash for opening new accounts.  You do need to read and understand the fine print.  Your money isn't 'locked up' either, if you need it before the bonus is earned or payed, you just don't get the bonus.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 5, 2018)

Colleen said:


> My husband is 77 and I just turned 71. We have been retired since 2001. We had investments way back when but lost most of it in 2008 when everything went down hill. Since we've been living on his pension and our SS we haven't re-invested because we're afraid of losing it again. We didn't buy a house until we were in our 50's because his work kept us moving around so we're still making a house payment and a car payment. After monthly bills are paid (usually no credit card debt) we have about $1500 that I am able to keep around with $500 in cash and the rest goes in a savings with Ally, which is earning interest over 1% right now.
> 
> I've thought about mutuals but isn't it a little late for us to start investing since it takes forever to see a return?



I also didn't lose any money in the 2008 crash...in fact took a distribution with profit (not loss) from one of my funds. My average annual returns have been around 14% give or take, with one year since being at 24+%. It's never too late to start investing IMHO but choose investments that have a track record of doing well over 5 and even 10 years. Right now I'm favoring exchange traded funds (ETFs) for my new investments because each holds a bundle of companies like mutual funds but trade like stocks in that you don't have to buy any particular dollar amount of shares at once and you can see real time share price quotes throughout the day. I also favor Schwab as a brokerage because many of the funds, ETFs are on their list of fee free trades. I also find their website to be very user friendly, including their "research" feature that gives detailed rundowns on each fund or ETF by rating, returns, holdings, etc.  I hope you and your husband can see your way to getting started and have much success.

Regarding your reply about checks and cash...I believe checks are all but obsolete, what with credit and debit cards being so handy. Most months, I only write one check a month and that's for our carrying charges (co-op speak for HOA fees). If the managing agent ever installs a method by which we can pay be credit card, the only checks I would write would be to enclose in sympathy or birthday cards. My mother had a checking account but I don't remember how long she had it.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 5, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Since retirement, my lady and I have (literally) socked away our savings (in a sock), in spite of spending (to us) some major coins on building materials.
> 
> It’s not that I don’t trust banks or savings institutions (I don’t) but that I’ve grown accustom to piling up money…and looking at it, much like Silas Marner.
> 
> ...



I sure hope you never have a fire Gary!! You are not alone in your distrust of banks. I read an article last year about the places people stash their cash.  In a sock wasn't one of them.  I also pay with practically everything with credit cards (see my reply to Colleen). I've made thousands of dollars as well. Last year, including the bonuses for accepting pre-approved offers, I made about $1,100 in cash back rewards. Hey that's almost $100 a month. Not going to turn THAT down. And I don't buy stuff just to get rewards, I charge what I would normally have written a check for, groceries and things I truly need. I also never pay interest or fees so those rewards are "free and clear".


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## Gary O' (Jan 5, 2018)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I sure hope you never have a fire Gary!!



the 'socks' are in fire safes in a secret steel place that rhymes with knee constrainer (yes, cabins can burn down)

OK OK. it's a sea container
better locks than most vaults


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## Colleen (Jan 7, 2018)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I also didn't lose any money in the 2008 crash...in fact took a distribution with profit (not loss) from one of my funds. My average annual returns have been around 14% give or take, with one year since being at 24+%. It's never too late to start investing IMHO but choose investments that have a track record of doing well over 5 and even 10 years. Right now I'm favoring exchange traded funds (ETFs) for my new investments because each holds a bundle of companies like mutual funds but trade like stocks in that you don't have to buy any particular dollar amount of shares at once and you can see real time share price quotes throughout the day. I also favor Schwab as a brokerage because many of the funds, ETFs are on their list of fee free trades. I also find their website to be very user friendly, including their "research" feature that gives detailed rundowns on each fund or ETF by rating, returns, holdings, etc.  I hope you and your husband can see your way to getting started and have much success.
> 
> Regarding your reply about checks and cash...I believe checks are all but obsolete, what with credit and debit cards being so handy. Most months, I only write one check a month and that's for our carrying charges (co-op speak for HOA fees). If the managing agent ever installs a method by which we can pay be credit card, the only checks I would write would be to enclose in sympathy or birthday cards. My mother had a checking account but I don't remember how long she had it.



What REALLY scares us away from doing any kind of investments right now is the uncertainty of our Medicare and SS. Trump and his henchmen are going to do something to lower our "entitlements" but no one is saying for sure what that will be, soooo......we're sitting tight right now just in case we need to have a "cushion" for anything unforeseen. I am envious that we didn't get started sooner with a "plan" to invest while we worked and should have bought a home much sooner than 56/50 years of age.It sure would have helped to have that house payment we're making now to put away somewhere  The trouble with parents then and now is they don't talk about or teach finances with their kids. Money is always such a private thing that it's never discussed and when you get out on your own, you're left to flounder.


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## mathjak107 (Jan 7, 2018)

all the more reason to build up your nest egg . there is never a good time to invest . there is always a vision in our heads and a what if . the hard part is not to let your brain sabotage your efforts . since i started as an investor back in 1987  there is not a year that went by that my brain didn't try to a hand me  what if and tried to talk me out of investing for one reason or another .


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 8, 2018)

Colleen said:


> What REALLY scares us away from doing any kind of investments right now is the uncertainty of our Medicare and SS. Trump and his henchmen are going to do something to lower our "entitlements" but no one is saying for sure what that will be, soooo......we're sitting tight right now just in case we need to have a "cushion" for anything unforeseen. I am envious that we didn't get started sooner with a "plan" to invest while we worked and should have bought a home much sooner than 56/50 years of age.It sure would have helped to have that house payment we're making now to put away somewhere  The trouble with parents then and now is they don't talk about or teach finances with their kids. Money is always such a private thing that it's never discussed and when you get out on your own, you're left to flounder.



I understand perfectly Colleen. People should have enough in emergency funds to cover the unexpected before putting money into the market. How much of an emergency fund depends on an individual's (or a couple's) circumstances. You are not the only ones who are apprehensive about our SS & Medicare. Many of my networking friends feel the same because of the political environment we are in now. We all have our "shoulda, woulda, couldas". I wish I'd known how to start investing in my 20's instead of 30's. And I wish I had kept more in an emergency fund. It would have prevented the need to take a large distribution from a fund that has more than doubled since so I could buy a want.

I agree that children are done a disservice when parents don't discuss money matters with them and teach them how to manage money and about investing. I tried to teach my son, now years later he's finally understanding the need for handling his finances better and investing well.  I've been teaching my oldest grandson and he caught on much sooner than his father. Have started to teach the younger ones, a teen & a "tween" about money management.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 8, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> OED, I didn't know that Muslims don't deal in interest.   I learned something today, thank you for that!


Oops...where's my manners! Forgot to say you're welcome.


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## Colleen (Jan 8, 2018)

I appreciate your information but I would have NO idea where to start! We don't have a lot of money to play with (or lose!). I doubt an adviser would be interested in talking to us. We had one in the past that was only interested in what she would make from our investments, therefore, she didn't have much time for us as we were "small" potatoes to her. I never trusted her a lot anyway because she was so wishy-washy. Back then I had asked her what she thought of Spyders and she didn't even know what they were...said she never heard of them. I've tried to read articles about investing but, honestly, it's like trying to read Greek to me...LOL. I give up and just keep most of our $$$ in that Ally savings. I had thought about putting some in a CD with Ally because their rates went up but when I compared it to what we were making on the savings, it was lower with the CD.


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## Lethe200 (Jan 11, 2018)

Colleen said:


> .....I give up and just keep most of our $$$ in that Ally savings. I had thought about putting some in a CD with Ally because their rates went up but when I compared it to what we were making on the savings, it was lower with the CD.



Just be aware of the FDIC limits per bank, and DO NOT exceed them. Any excess is NOT covered.


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## HipGnosis (Jan 12, 2018)

Lethe200 said:


> Just be aware of the FDIC limits per bank, and DO NOT exceed them. Any excess is NOT covered.



I dream of having such problems!!


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## Lethe200 (Jan 18, 2018)

HipGnosis said:


> I dream of having such problems!!



No dream. When my MIL sold her home, a check for $980K could either be mailed to her or deposited into her bank account. We had it deposited and it took almost two months to close down her accounts with said bank and transfer the funds to a new fiduciary institution, opening accounts with an independent CFP firm.

In hindsight, obviously, we should have opened the CFP firm accounts sooner. But she made the decision to sell at a time when it was clear (to us) that the RE market was beginning to falter. Getting her out of her home of 37 yrs was a big job and we had to get it done ASAP. So meeting new CFPs to interview and research had to take second place to the details of cleaning, staging, and moving. We got her out plus the home sale completed, even faster than we hoped - 2 months, 1 week start to finish.

But as a result, she had some staggeringly large bank statements for a couple of months!


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 18, 2018)

Colleen said:


> I appreciate your information but I would have NO idea where to start! We don't have a lot of money to play with (or lose!). I doubt an adviser would be interested in talking to us. We had one in the past that was only interested in what she would make from our investments, therefore, she didn't have much time for us as we were "small" potatoes to her. I never trusted her a lot anyway because she was so wishy-washy. Back then I had asked her what she thought of Spyders and she didn't even know what they were...said she never heard of them. I've tried to read articles about investing but, honestly, it's like trying to read Greek to me...LOL. I give up and just keep most of our $$$ in that Ally savings. I had thought about putting some in a CD with Ally because their rates went up but when I compared it to what we were making on the savings, it was lower with the CD.





Lethe200 said:


> No dream. When my MIL sold her home, a check for $980K could either be mailed to her or deposited into her bank account. We had it deposited and it took almost two months to close down her accounts with said bank and transfer the funds to a new fiduciary institution, opening accounts with an independent CFP firm.
> 
> In hindsight, obviously, we should have opened the CFP firm accounts sooner. But she made the decision to sell at a time when it was clear (to us) that the RE market was beginning to falter. Getting her out of her home of 37 yrs was a big job and we had to get it done ASAP. So meeting new CFPs to interview and research had to take second place to the details of cleaning, staging, and moving. We got her out plus the home sale completed, even faster than we hoped - 2 months, 1 week start to finish.
> 
> But as a result, she had some staggeringly large bank statements for a couple of months!



*Colleen,* I'm surprised the CDs don't have better rates than regular bank accounts. Usually the longer the term, the more interest is paid. Layering them (time wise) is recommended if money will be needed before X amount of time. 
*Lethe200* I can imagine that was a big, stressful job! They must be crazy to even think of mailing an almost million dollar check! LOL  In Prince's song Pop Life, he asks.."Did they put your million dollar check in somebody else's box?"


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