# Family Estrangements....the pain of it all!



## Georgiahoosier (May 20, 2019)

It seems that my family (immediate and even extended) has so many estrangements going on! Between siblings, children, even grandchildren. It is extremely hurtful, and makes family get togethers uncomfortable to say the least. I have been the victim more often than not with a son who doesn't hesitate to get up in my face. (in my home,in front of his wife and kids) After the last big one about a year and a half ago, I'm not allowed to see his kids. That's my punishment for not tolerating him screaming at me in my home. I wish we could be a "normal" family, whatever that is!


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## RadishRose (May 20, 2019)

I'm sorry for you GH. Family rifts are so very painful and not being allowed to see grandchildren must hurt terribly. 

Seems like you're all kind of used to this discord to some degree, but I guess it gets old at a certain point.

But welcome and enjoy our humor section for a lift.


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## Falcon (May 20, 2019)

Sometimes  there are valid reasons  that  some  kin/relative  are  universally  DISliked.  Think about it.  Just make sure that
you're  not one of them.


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## Georgiahoosier (May 20, 2019)

Thank you RR!


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## win231 (May 20, 2019)

Of course, there is usually a reason - sometimes a good one.


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## Sassycakes (May 20, 2019)

My immediate family is pretty close so far. But my Dad's family hated my Mother because my parents got married when they were only 16yrs old. So when my brother and me and my sister came along they hated us too. We were never invited to have dinner at my grandparents even though all the rest of the family was.We would visit on Christmas and all the grandchildren would get presents but not us. Now years later most of my cousins don't speak to one another. In each family they turn against one another. I don't know how my Mom tolerated it,but she did for my Dad's sake.


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## RadishRose (May 20, 2019)

My goodness Sassy that's pretty weird to take out their resentment on you innocent kids.


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## Sassycakes (May 20, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> My goodness Sassy that's pretty weird to take out their resentment on you innocent kids.



I have to admit they were weird. My Dad had one brother and 5 sisters. I had 15 cousins on that side of the family. If ever we got invited to an  advent like a wedding and any of my Dad's kids got invited ,which was seldom,we weren't allowed to sit with cousins we could only sit with adults. Thinking back on it,I admire my Mom for never keeping my Dad away from the family. If she had said something about them He would have stayed away. He worshiped the ground my Mom walked on,so he would have tossed them all away . In later years I did become friends with 2 of my boy cousins. Of course their sisters stopped seeing them also,so they understood what my family went through.


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## Gary O' (May 20, 2019)

I must be the odd one
Anybody estranges me, it’s pretty much a relief

My lady is just opposite

Anyway, something somewhat pertinent I put together a few years back, and, heh, posted here more than once
(use the scroll feature if it’s a bore);


*Anybody got close to near to close relatives that seem to live a cut above everone around them including you?

These are kin, that if you had the choice, you’d pick for Hitler’s cronies, their lives ending by the hand of Idi Amin’s pals. It’s a dream you have anyway.

These are not necessarily smug folks, as they’ve been raised to be proper with kindly remarks saved for the mentally disadvantaged (you), but still, when in conversation, you seem to come off as a curiosity, a toy that should have been discarded but kept because, well, it’s been passed down from aged family members.

These are your kinfolks that you wish weren’t. 
But there you are, at their place.
And there they are, choosing the correct fork with mindless ease, while it dawns on you that you not only have one, but both elbows on the table.
This felonious act is like discovering, while you’re waiting for the bus, you have no pants on.

Yeah, there they are, wittily chatting about current events, glancing your way, hoping you will say something so they can have a good mutual laugh, jumping on your blurted fractured words like the ravenous hyenas they are.

But you know this, so you amiably reach for your seventh dinner role, because you know the lone knife is for butter…pretty sure.

And there’s your sister, blending nicely, and even your little brother….cute little bastard, seems to be one of them, along with mom and dad, all exchanging quips and witticisms. 

So you begin to feel a tad self-conscious, and thirsty, since your fourth glass of juice has managed to cause that loaf of dinner rolls to swell to the max in your twisted up stomach…

‘Why’d the moron throw the clock out the window?’

‘Whud he say?’

snicker giggle giggle giggle…….rising, swelling to a tidal wave of uproarious laughter.

‘I dunno, Gary, why did the moron do that (snarkle)?’

The beets look pale compared to you.

Only you are smiling, laughing sappily with them.

But, on the inside you’re envisioning Hitler’s storm troopers bashing down the door, and hauling everyone outside.

You are untouched, saved actually.
Later you stroll out to the gazebo where everyone is flailing away, hanging upside down.
You walk slowly by these relatives of yours, stopping in front of your cousin’s bobbing head.

‘TO EFFING SEE THE EFFING TIME EFFING FLY!!!!’

Later that day, sitting in the gazebo, finally with your own thoughts, you settle your mind with the calming resolution of just writing a book……..



So, you never had relatives like that, you say?

Me neither
*


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## Capt Lightning (May 21, 2019)

I have a great relationship with my own family, but I've seen or heard nothing from my siblings for many years.  This suits me fine - apart from having the same parents we had nothing in common with one another.  If we met again (which is unlikely as I  don't even know where they live) we would be strangers.

The worst case I came upon was one of my parent's neighbours.  Their daughter committed the ultimate sin of marrying a Catholic.  This was  like selling your soul to Satan.  Although they had a happy successful life, they were never allowed into her parent's house again.  I don't condone such actions, but I do understand them.


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## AnnieA (May 21, 2019)

Such a sad thing when access to children is used as a weapon.  That happened in our family several years ago when my brother and his wife divorced.  Thankfully, the courts didn't buy her lies, and the kids (now teens) are beginning to see her true colors.


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## Rosemarie (May 21, 2019)

Yes, it's amazing how petty people can be, and how bad feeling can be kept alive many years after the event. My father didn't attend his mother's funeral because my mother was due to give birth, and he didn't want to leave her alone while he travelled north. His family have never forgiven him. My own daughter hasn't spoken to me for many years, but I don't know why. We didn't have a row or anything. I suspect someone told her something about me, which she believed without giving me the chance to explain myself.


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## StarSong (May 21, 2019)

Family estrangements are far more common than people imagine.  We are conditioned to believe otherwise by fictional tales of perfect families in books, movies and TV shows.   Real life relationships aren't always pretty or smooth.

What always surprises me is how many people believe themselves to be victims of somebody else's choice of estrangement.  We each bear substantial responsibility for how our relationships work out, whether we want to admit it or not.  I say that as someone who chose estrangement from one family member and was cut off by another.  I know the hows and whys of both, and what part I played in where we wound up.


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## Shalimar (May 21, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Family estrangements are far more common than people imagine.  We are conditioned to believe otherwise by fictional tales of perfect families in books, movies and TV shows.   Real life relationships aren't always pretty or smooth.
> 
> What always surprises me is how many people believe themselves to be victims of somebody else's choice of estrangement.  We each bear substantial responsibility for how our relationships work out, whether we want to admit it or not.  I say that as someone who chose estrangement from one family member and was cut off by another.  I know the hows and whys of both, and what part I played in where we wound up.


Hmmm. With respect, not always. I refuse to be the family sin eater/scapegoat. That would be the price of a relationship with my son. Regretfully, I decline.


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## StarSong (May 21, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> Hmmm. With respect, not always. I refuse to be the family sin eater/scapegoat. That would be the price of a relationship with my son. Regretfully, I decline.



There are exceptions to every rule.


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## Nihil (May 21, 2019)

It doesn't bother me that my family didn't like me. They were conformists and competitive. I knew when I was 5 that I had to find out truths about existence, while most people accepted what they were told. My daughter says everything I did was wrong, and won't see me. I remember us having fun and learning together. My girlfriend of 16 years has decided to keep me around. I serve her, clean, and do the things she likes. We now sleep in separate beds, though.


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## AZ Jim (May 21, 2019)

As a child I was surrounded by loving relatives.  I guess there were occasional spats but if so they were not monumental and didn't trickle down to the kids.  Kids as weapons is never acceptable.  I guess we were lucky...


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## 911 (May 22, 2019)

I’ve seen the worse of the worse. One case, a brother shoots and kills his brother because he had an affair with his wife.

Another case, a son kills his parents because they wouldn’t allow him to go to a party.

Another case, a daughter kills her mother because she wouldn’t let her daughter date an older man. She was 15, he was 24. 

There have been others.


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## AnnieA (May 22, 2019)

Georgiahoosier said:


> ...I wish we could be a "normal" family, whatever that is!



A social worker friend of mine always has this to say to say about "normal families".  







They don't exist, but your situation is very hurtful.  Have you considered counseling?   Even going by yourself, it can help you learn how to set healthy boundaries and make sure you're not doing things to escalate when things get heated.  Coming from a background with a lot of family tension on multiple fronts, you may not see in yourself unhealthy patterns you've learned in that environment.


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## Keesha (May 22, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> I must be the odd one
> Anybody estranges me, it’s pretty much a relief



Nope. Not alone. Being estranged from family can be a true blessing. :yes:


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## Seeker (May 22, 2019)

> I wish we could be a "normal" family, whatever that is!



When you figure that one out let me know.

I gave it up a long time ago..

Mostly I gave up what they try to shove down your throats as "normal"


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## Keesha (May 22, 2019)

Normal is highly overrated anyway.
Whats normal :shrug:


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## JimW (May 23, 2019)

Whoever said that "blood is thicker than water" was completely full of the poo!


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## twinkles (May 23, 2019)

i live with my younger daughter and the oldest daughter lives right next door----she use to come over every evening --now she wont even talk to me or my  youngest daughter and she wont answer her phone if we call.


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## RadishRose (May 23, 2019)

twinkles said:


> i live with my younger daughter and the oldest daughter lives right next door----she use to come over every evening --now she wont even talk to me or my  youngest daughter and she wont answer her phone if we call.



Do you know why? Is there any way to resolve things?


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## twinkles (May 23, 2019)

radish rose i have no idea--i know her husband is achoholic and there is no telling  what he has told her--she knows he lies but  i guess she is with him for security


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## WhatInThe (Jun 16, 2019)

Normal family-pppffffttt. That's part of the issue because too many use media or other families as a model what theirs should be(no chance). But they get frustrated and some it turns to anger if things simply don't go the way they should or thought they would. False and/or unreasonable expectation is why many people have the issues includinh substance abuse they have today.

I have 50 plus year old family that constantly touts well this is how so and so does it like a child telling their parents what they did in school that day.

Sometimes blunt honesty or separation is the best policy. Detach as they say or simply don't expect squat. 

It's brutal, I thought the silver hair years would be the easiest domestically. Actually the exact opposite in many cases because decades of suppressed issues and opinions have come rushing to the surface with a vengence. Extended life span and more capability in the second half of ones life is too much all unaddressed issues in a family. Time allows them to breakout.


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## Repondering (Jun 16, 2019)

My oldest brother married his pregnant girlfriend 54 years ago and my parents never stopped loathing her or the daughter they had.  Now that brother and his wife are both dead and so are my parents....but before they died they disinherited my brother's daughter and her daughter out of the will.  
My other brother's wife was shunned by our parents as well.  She and her husband, my brother, refused all contact with our parents and me these last 15 years.
Now that  one remaining brother and I are the only ones left of the original 5 family members.  We're on speaking terms but his wife and I aren't.  He refused to attend Mom's funeral five months ago.  Our other brother's daughter and granddaughter, the ones cut out of the will, refuse all contact with us.
I nursed Mom and dad through their final years.  And now I've inherited the house, the 12 acres it's on, everything in it, the bank accounts, the investment portfolios and the big prize, the farm....which brings me a tidy passive income.
If I had to do it over again, I think I'd have walked away from our parents like my 2 brothers did.  Living a life away from my parents' toxic household might have been preferable to being the "loyal' son who got the material goodies.


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## Ronni (Jun 17, 2019)

My sister disowned both my brother and me.  I'm not sure why she stopped talking to my brother.  She disowned me for a variety of reasons.   My brother and I remained close until his death.  I know my Mum would have been horrified at what my sister did if she'd still been alive, she was such a sweet, inclusive person and never had a bad word to say about anyone.  Our house when I was little was filled with love and kindness.  

I have always tried to maintain good relationships with people.  The only person I've completely cut out of my life is my abusive ex.  Even with him though, once I left him and the dust settled, I tried to maintain a civil relationship with him for the sake of the kids.  It was hit and miss for a while, but got really bad after our son nosedived into his addiction, and my ex blamed me 100% for that, because I was "too permissive" and "mollycoddled" him. My son was an adult and out of the house by the time he started using heavily, so I'm not sure what he thought I was doing.  

But my ex also blamed the oldest boy for the fact that I wanted to leave him.  The oldest was living across the country 2,500 miles away, so I'm not sure how he was responsible for the demise of the marriage.  See a pattern here?  Yup.  Nothing was EVER my ex's fault!

Anyway, other than him, I've maintained close relationships with all the kids, grandkids, extended family as much as possible.


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## WhatInThe (Jun 17, 2019)

One of the things I notice in certain families is that were certain people pass on the poop really starts to fly. Maybe some are diplomatic out of respect or the deceased was the reason they maintain any type of relationship.

The most surprising here is that an 50+ adult child abandoned a surviving parent in less than 6 months after the other died. I guess it was years of suppressed issues and it does take two to argue/fight etc. Took about another 1/2 year before communication picked up. The parent had several medical evenst in which the adult child refused to help out.

Can't emphasize this enough. There are unaddressed and suppressed issues and if they are never dealt with they will come out and affect decisions. But those issues could've been cause for estrangement or banishment decades ago. Everyone is worried about being viewed upon as 'normal' and if they banished or disowned a family member decades ago that would've upset their perception about themselves.


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## Ronni (Jun 17, 2019)

WhatInThe said:


> Can't emphasize this enough. There are unaddressed and suppressed issues and if they are never dealt with they will come out and affect decisions. But those issues could've been cause for estrangement or banishment decades ago. Everyone is worried about being viewed upon as 'normal' and if they banished or disowned a family member decades ago that would've upset their perception about themselves.



I agree completely.  

It's one of the primary reasons why I have always emphasized open and honest communication within my nuclear family.  My kids were never "seen but not heard."  I always encouraged them to talk openly about what was bothering them, even if it were something negative towards me, as long as they were respectful about it.  I had no problem apologizing if I could see from their perspective that something I did or said was off, and if I didn't feel like it was, I'd thank them for their honesty and we'd search for some common ground or a compromise.  Sometimes too, I just had to lay down the law, because I am after all the parent!  They, like most kids, weren't happy, but there was enough respect paid to THEIR points of view and issues and concerns that it never really got too bad.  And as adults they seem to have taken these lessons and applied the to their own relationships with significant others and children.  

I think it's a primary reason why we remain very close as a family.  There are no hidden agendas, no simmering but unspoken resentments, no suppressed issues.  We've certainly been through enough trials by fire to have broken down as a family is it were going to happen.  I'm proud of my kids for their communication and problem solving skills.


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## Olivia (Jun 17, 2019)

At one time my extended family on my dad's side were "close". It was really because of my grandmother. After she died we never really got together again. Nothing major happened. We just drifted apart. Although at the beginning my mom and my grandmother didn't get along and there were some tense times. I think really more of a cultural thing, between  my mom being an extroverted European and my dad's Japanese mother having to bear the idea of her oldest son bringing home a Caucasian wife. But don't be fooled. Japanese women can be just as feisty, if not even more so. Every child no fault of their own gets born into these kind of things. 

So true, now that I think about it. Normal families? fff:


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## WhatInThe (Jun 17, 2019)

Ronni said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> It's one of the primary reasons why I have always emphasized open and honest communication within my nuclear family.  My kids were never "seen but not heard."  I always encouraged them to talk openly about what was bothering them, even if it were something negative towards me, as long as they were respectful about it.  I had no problem apologizing if I could see from their perspective that something I did or said was off, and if I didn't feel like it was, I'd thank them for their honesty and we'd search for some common ground or a compromise.  Sometimes too, I just had to lay down the law, because I am after all the parent!  They, like most kids, weren't happy, but there was enough respect paid to THEIR points of view and issues and concerns that it never really got too bad.  And as adults they seem to have taken these lessons and applied the to their own relationships with significant others and children.
> 
> I think it's a primary reason why we remain very close as a family.  There are no hidden agendas, no simmering but unspoken resentments, no suppressed issues.  We've certainly been through enough trials by fire to have broken down as a family is it were going to happen.  I'm proud of my kids for their communication and problem solving skills.



One of the biggest examples of not dealing with the obvious are drug and alcohol abuse issues. Some call it tough love etc but at a certain point family members in particular have to call out the drug addicts and alcoholics early on. But good old fashioned denial says 'not in my family', not me syndrome etc. I've seen these issues tolerated too long in numerous families and not only is it detrimental to the addicts & alkies but it takes a toll on the sober/rest of the family. Time and age don't correct things or make them better. There's a reason for expressions like 'nip it in the bud'


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## Ronni (Jun 17, 2019)

WhatInThe said:


> One of the biggest examples of not dealing with the obvious are drug and alcohol abuse issues. Some call it tough love etc but at a certain point family members in particular have to call out the drug addicts and alcoholics early on. But good old fashioned denial says 'not in my family', not me syndrome etc. I've seen these issues tolerated too long in numerous families and not only is it detrimental to the addicts & alkies but it takes a toll on the sober/rest of the family. Time and age don't correct things or make them better. There's a reason for expressions like 'nip it in the bud'



One of my sons is an addict. I’m not sure if you knew that or not. That’s one of the “trials by fire” issues we’ve dealt with as a family. He’s been C&S almost 5 years now, just for today, the longest stretch by several years. I won’t say it’s permanent because he will always be an addict, but I’m proud of his progress and dedication to his sobriety. He was in heavy addiction for 10 plus years, and ramped up to that point for 5 before that. He ultimately alienated every one of his siblings, all his friends, and eventually me too,  because I finally realized that my “help” was just enabling the drug use. As a family we had many blowups, there was a lot of denial and much turmoil and wretchedness. There’s a reason that addiction is called a family disease!!   Throughout all of it we just kept communicating, to my son and to each other, and even he, in his moments of clarity, tried to remain connected. 

We’ve come through all of that closer than ever.


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## StarSong (Jun 17, 2019)

Ronni, I wouldn't even pretend that I can imagine the pain and heartache of coping with your son's addiction.  Kudos to you and your family for finding a way through and coming out the other side.


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## WhatInThe (Jun 17, 2019)

Ronni said:


> One of my sons is an addict. I’m not sure if you knew that or not. That’s one of the “trials by fire” issues we’ve dealt with as a family. He’s been C&S almost 5 years now, just for today, the longest stretch by several years. I won’t say it’s permanent because he will always be an addict, but I’m proud of his progress and dedication to his sobriety. He was in heavy addiction for 10 plus years, and ramped up to that point for 5 before that. He ultimately alienated every one of his siblings, all his friends, and eventually me too,  because I finally realized that my “help” was just enabling the drug use. As a family we had many blowups, there was a lot of denial and much turmoil and wretchedness. There’s a reason that addiction is called a family disease!!   Throughout all of it we just kept communicating, to my son and to each other, and even he, in his moments of clarity, tried to remain connected.
> 
> We’ve come through all of that closer than ever.



Do the siblings treat him any different. I've seen siblings go at hard over the years and just when you thought things were better than was it we now have 50 plus year old siblings who refuse to talk to each other for about 5 years. I will say some of the fights in front of other family were fierce at times. I think that battle was lost long ago. If they're in a good mood someone might get a greeting card. The parents relationship is strained with both of them but it's better with the addict. I regret to say the parent are a major contributor-at least one life time addict and another child that wants nothing to do with them. Everyone has gray hair; one would think they could get over it but I know with myself there are lines once crossed there is no going back.


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## Ronni (Jun 18, 2019)

WhatInThe said:


> Do the siblings treat him any different. I've seen siblings go at hard over the years and just when you thought things were better than was it we now have 50 plus year old siblings who refuse to talk to each other for about 5 years. I will say some of the fights in front of other family were fierce at times. I think that battle was lost long ago. If they're in a good mood someone might get a greeting card. The parents relationship is strained with both of them but it's better with the addict. I regret to say the parent are a major contributor-at least one life time addict and another child that wants nothing to do with them. Everyone has gray hair; one would think they could get over it but I know with myself there are lines once crossed there is no going back.



They were very slow to trust their brother again.  Grayson had in been in recovery a few times, gone to various court mandated programs, went through drug court, attended several rehabs, and relapsed each time, so we were all wary of his latest recovery.  Over time, they became more comfortable, and each at their own pace let him back into their lives again, a bit at a time.  There was a period when my daughter wouldn't let him into her house.  A time when one of his brothers refused all communication from him.  Everyone was wary of this latest recovery, and wouldn't reconnect at all initially because it could easily have been just the latest recovery/relapse cycle.  

It was really hard for me as his Mom to stay out of those sibling relationships.  I wanted so badly to fix things, to be the mediator, to help repair the damage.  But I knew, rationally, that it wasn't mine to control, wasn't my job, wasn't my responsibility.  Grayson made his amends to his siblings, as he could, reached out to help them with whatever issues they were having with cars (he's an excellent mechanic,) help with moving, any grunt work that required muscle, handyman stuff....just whatever he could do to help them in their lives, as a way to make amends for all the help they each gave him over the years and he wasted.  

I think I mentioned, it's been almost 5 years now that he's been clean,  and the kids are all in close touch again.  Grayson attends all the nieces/nephews birthday parties, we as a family get together frequently, he goes to one of the boys' monthly poker nights, helps his sister with house repairs etc.  He's fully back in their lives, but it has taken a lot of dedicated work......a willingness to slowly extend trust again on the part of the siblings, and a hefty dose of humility and desire to make amends on Grayson's part.


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## WhatInThe (Jun 18, 2019)

Ronni said:


> They were very slow to trust their brother again.  Grayson had in been in recovery a few times, gone to various court mandated programs, went through drug court, attended several rehabs, and relapsed each time, so we were all wary of his latest recovery.  Over time, they became more comfortable, and each at their own pace let him back into their lives again, a bit at a time.  There was a period when my daughter wouldn't let him into her house.  A time when one of his brothers refused all communication from him.  Everyone was wary of this latest recovery, and wouldn't reconnect at all initially because it could easily have been just the latest recovery/relapse cycle.
> 
> It was really hard for me as his Mom to stay out of those sibling relationships.  I wanted so badly to fix things, to be the mediator, to help repair the damage.  But I knew, rationally, that it wasn't mine to control, wasn't my job, wasn't my responsibility.  Grayson made his amends to his siblings, as he could, reached out to help them with whatever issues they were having with cars (he's an excellent mechanic,) help with moving, any grunt work that required muscle, handyman stuff....just whatever he could do to help them in their lives, as a way to make amends for all the help they each gave him over the years and he wasted.
> 
> I think I mentioned, it's been almost 5 years now that he's been clean,  and the kids are all in close touch again.  Grayson attends all the nieces/nephews birthday parties, we as a family get together frequently, he goes to one of the boys' monthly poker nights, helps his sister with house repairs etc.  He's fully back in their lives, but it has taken a lot of dedicated work......a willingness to slowly extend trust again on the part of the siblings, and a hefty dose of humility and desire to make amends on Grayson's part.



Good to hear. Sounds like he cleaned up before he hit mid life. When you have senior addicts & alcoholics forgiving isn't so easy and there aren't events like a child's birthday to help bring people together. And that's the frustrating thing one would figure people in their senior years would have progressed, matured and have a lot more wisdom but they never adapted or evolved which is exactly why they no or poor family relationships. Sometimes the line crossed is age and time.


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## sjm1027 (Jul 4, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Family estrangements are far more common than people imagine.  We are conditioned to believe otherwise by fictional tales of perfect families in books, movies and TV shows.   Real life relationships aren't always pretty or smooth.
> 
> What always surprises me is how many people believe themselves to be victims of somebody else's choice of estrangement.  We each bear substantial responsibility for how our relationships work out, whether we want to admit it or not.  I say that as someone who chose estrangement from one family member and was cut off by another.  I know the hows and whys of both, and what part I played in where we wound up.


This is spot on. This is more the normal now. It’s a 50/50 give and take. If you don’t get some sort of % back it’s time to focus somewhere else. It does hurt a bit but life is to short.


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## 911 (Jul 4, 2019)

Some people see family estrangement as a good thing while others see it as a tragedy. Families that can’t come together and respect one another should probably just stay away from each other. I know families that still have large reunions and get along with one another quite easily. There’s always some gossip being spread about one or two of the relatives and there may be a black sheep in the family, but all in all, some families are just very close knit and would have it no other way.


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## Judycat (Jul 4, 2019)

My brother lives across the country. We get along fine with that arrangement.


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## Keesha (Jul 5, 2019)

Repondering said:


> My oldest brother married his pregnant girlfriend 54 years ago and my parents never stopped loathing her or the daughter they had.  Now that brother and his wife are both dead and so are my parents....but before they died they disinherited my brother's daughter and her daughter out of the will.
> My other brother's wife was shunned by our parents as well.  She and her husband, my brother, refused all contact with our parents and me these last 15 years.
> Now that  one remaining brother and I are the only ones left of the original 5 family members.  We're on speaking terms but his wife and I aren't.  He refused to attend Mom's funeral five months ago.  Our other brother's daughter and granddaughter, the ones cut out of the will, refuse all contact with us.
> I nursed Mom and dad through their final years.  And now I've inherited the house, the 12 acres it's on, everything in it, the bank accounts, the investment portfolios and the big prize, the farm....which brings me a tidy passive income.
> If I had to do it over again, I think I'd have walked away from our parents like my 2 brothers did.  Living a life away from my parents' toxic household might have been preferable to being the "loyal' son who got the material goodies.


So clearly caring for these two narcissistic toxic parents wasn’t worth the 12 acre farm, various bank accounts and investment portfolios ?
I really feel for your brothers. How sad. 


What I don’t understand is why did you estrange your brothers also? Did you follow what your parents did to win reward with them or did you just happen to feel the same way as they did about your brothers? 

Looking back on all this, do you think that was fair of your parents to give preferential treatment to you because they didn’t like their daughter in laws?

Sorry for all the questions. Your parents sound very similar to mine and I’d like to learn how you handled it. 

Do you think your parents favoured you because you had no girlfriend or spouse to contend with so it was easier for them?

Did your parents go into a nursing home or have any other long term healthcare or did you actually care for them both all on your own?

How difficult was that for you?

What’s makes you say you wished you’d done as your brothers had and just walked away?


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## Repondering (Jul 5, 2019)

@ Keesha:   Mom was in a nursing home for the last two months of her life when she was in hospice care.  I did everything necessary before that.
It was very difficult.
I didn't have a spouse and they were glad for it, it made things simpler for them.  Simplicity could work for us, complexity was outside of our skill sets.

I didn't deliberately estrange my brothers.  The mutual estrangement was another expression of our family's sheer ignorance of how to communicate and respect one another .

If I'd walked away and lived my life like my brothers did, I might have had a life rather than being a servant.  And now I'm facing old age alone.

The house is on the 12 acres.  The farm is 320 acres.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 7, 2019)

Falcon said:


> Sometimes  there are valid reasons  that  some  kin/relative  are  universally  DISliked.  Think about it.  Just make sure that
> you're  not one of them.



So true. There's blame shifting and like any other group, organization or peers the dissenter is disliked.

 Here if you don't like to drink, go to bars or agree those to that do one is considered a party pooper. The drunks in the family try to rationalize their drinking by ocassion, their 'knowledge and appreciation of the finer things in life' ie expensive alcoholic beverages and restaurants. In the meantime all of them have suffered and ignored the consequences of alcoholism including immediate family that wants nothing to with them. They are literally alone and/or ostracized themselves.


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## Capt Lightning (Jul 7, 2019)

I remember a colleague once saying that his parents had "Four only children".  I know exactly what he meant - my eldest brother died some years back and as far as I know, my surviving sister, brother and myself have had no contact with one another for many years. No fall outs, we just followed very different paths.

Over 30 years ago, there was a miners' strike in the UK. This caused great division in many communities where some workers were determined to hold out for their demands and others felt their first duty was towards their families and continued working.  As a result many families became (and still remain) divided over what happened.  I used to think this was stupid, but I think I'm starting to understand the depth of feeling amongst those involved. 

This is from a recent newspaper article...
_Mrs Woodhead, who lives in the village of Blidworth, says some people still cross the road when they see her coming.  "Some people haven't spoken to each other since it started," she says. "It goes deeper than deep.
"There are people here that will not go into a certain pub or a certain shop because 'that's where the scabs went'. People made up their minds in the first month of the strike and stuck to it."  (Scab - slang for a person who doesn't support the strike)
Mrs Woodhead, now 68, remembers how during the strike, she borrowed plastic cups from a local school for the strikers' children to use. When she handed them back washed and cleaned, she says some of the wives of those who were still working threw them in the bin._


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## charry (Jul 7, 2019)

when i was younger we were close to all the cousins and aunts and uncles......now, well!..... what a change......i have nothing to do with my 5 siblings, and we hardly see our 4 sons and family .....


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 7, 2019)

Sassycakes said:


> My immediate family is pretty close so far. But my Dad's family hated my Mother because my parents got married when they were only 16yrs old. So when my brother and me and my sister came along they hated us too. We were never invited to have dinner at my grandparents even though all the rest of the family was.We would visit on Christmas and all the grandchildren would get presents but not us. Now years later most of my cousins don't speak to one another. In each family they turn against one another. I don't know how my Mom tolerated it,but she did for my Dad's sake.


That's so sad Sassy! Well you endured it and hopefully now your life is a happy one, especially now that your son has apologized for his behavior. I feel so bad for those who have suffered through dysfunctional family drama.
And to the OP, GeorgiaH...I wish things could be better for you. The way your son treats you must be truly heartbreaking. Maybe one day he'll come to his senses as well.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 7, 2019)

charry said:


> when i was younger we were close to all the cousins and aunts and uncles......now, well!..... what a change......i have nothing to do with my 5 siblings, and we hardly see our 4 sons and family .....



Sometimes families just grow apart which is natural in many cases. I think the issues occur when people try to keep to status quo ignoring the fact that most people wind with different jobs, schedules and priorities-things and people change. It's not just about ignoring tradition, invites etc. Sometimes a relationship is revived out of the blue or unexpectedly and they frequently can be the most fruitful.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 7, 2019)

911 said:


> ..... Families that can’t come together and respect one another should probably just stay away from each other. ....


The key is respect each other because if one respected the other they wouldn't be playing games, gossiping, trying find ways to manipulate or con family. Prime example are money issues.

Setting aside the actual request for money are the bs lobbying efforts/con games that precede the money 'request'. Also people who talk money, they want to know/pry into another family members business. Here we have a family is who is nosey to the point of constantly prying asking aunts, uncles, cousins and rich friends about their financial affairs wether it be the cost of a car or what they might have inherited.-that is disrespect. He has lost lady friends for talking 'business' with their family because they knew he would eventually would request money in some form. He is constantly looking for money and partners for his business schemes, ideas etc. He has at least one bankruptcy and is always angling/playing people for money. I don't know what family inherited other than maybe a house yet he will directly ask what did so and so get if not a family member directly to their face they only see during the holidays-what did you get?

Talking money and details to non close family is disrespect.


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## Keesha (Jul 7, 2019)

Repondering said:


> @ Keesha:   Mom was in a nursing home for the last two months of her life when she was in hospice care.  I did everything necessary before that.
> It was very difficult.
> I didn't have a spouse and they were glad for it, it made things simpler for them.  Simplicity could work for us, complexity was outside of our skill sets.
> 
> ...



Thank you for answering such personal questions. I really appreciate it. 

The way you wrote your posts really touched me. I’m not sure if your mother was ever diagnosed with a personality disorder but people who do have them are more difficult to get along with and many share similar characteristics. 

Borderlines split when under stress and will feel like they are being attacked so split as a coping mechanism. They demonize the people who they aren’t getting along with and tolerate the ones they do. They are incapable of loving anyone including themselves and everyone is disposable. They are master manipulators using guilt and shame to control others including family. 

I get the disinherited thing. That’s one more way to punish and hurt the person one last time even after they are gone from their grave. 
That’s how toxic their hate is. 

Stunned would seem an appropriate response to being disinherited but if you can’t be used, what good are you? No contact is usually what most professionals suggest in dealing with these types . 

Your statement:
Quote: “Living a life away from my parents ‘toxic household’ might have been preferable to being the ‘loyal’ son who got the material goodies.” End quote. 

That was profound and sent shivers down my spine. I do understand that these types of personalities have a difficult enough time handling family member; spouses of the children can easily become outcasts. 

Sorry for how I worded some of my questions? 
Reading it over,  I don’t think it came across the  way I intended. 

Communication is stressful and difficult at the best of times so I can really relate to that also. 
Keeping things simple is smart. Less to overwhelm. 

Quote: “The mutual estrangement was another expression of our family’s sheer ignorance of how to communicate and respect one another.” Unquote. 

That was brilliantly worded and again, I can relate. I truly empathize with you in your situation and thank you for having the courage to let us into some of your toxic  family dynamics. 

I have great admiration for your decision to care for your aging mother at the cost of becoming a  servant. 
It must have been difficult.


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## 911 (Jul 8, 2019)

In some cases, a family may be dysfunctional. Inside of a dysfunctional family, you may find at least one member of the family is codependent. Codependency is a whole nother issue.  However, if a child grows up with a father that is an alcoholic or drug addict, that child may become codependent. It all depends on what the child is taught or is shown while being raised. (I'm only talking about day to day behavior.)

Later in life, if the child is codependent, that child will normally seek out another codependent to hook up with or marry. Now, we have two codependents and if they should have children, it's more than likely that their children will become codependents. The chain can only become broken if one of the codependents recognize that they have a problem and seek out counseling. 

My point to all this is that if there is codependency going on within our family line or even if one of the family's in the clan are dysfunctional, the behavior from that person or family can create havoc within the clan. I have seen this happen more than once. 

(Where's Shalimar when we need her? She could explain this better than me.)


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## Shalimar (Jul 9, 2019)

Actually, 911, you explained things perfectly, no need for me to add anything.


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## Lc jones (Jul 9, 2019)

Falcon said:


> Sometimes  there are valid reasons  that  some  kin/relative  are  universally  DISliked.  Think about it.  Just make sure that
> you're  not one of them.


I agree 100%. I’ve recently had to  divorce/disown  a very close family member from my life due to the mental anguish this person was causing me. Of  course both of us had flaws and faults but she wouldn’t own that she had any part in the troubles. That left us at an impasse. It was one of the most difficult  decisions of my life but for my peace of mind it was very necessary.


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## AprilSun (Jul 9, 2019)

Lc jones said:


> I agree 100%. I’ve recently had to  divorce/disown  a very close family member from my life due to the mental anguish this person was causing me. Of  course both of us had flaws and faults but she wouldn’t own that she had any part in the troubles. That left us at an impasse. It was one of the most difficult  decisions of my life but for my peace of mind it was very necessary.



I have had to divorce/disown some family members also. They think they can treat me and talk to me any way they want to and I'm suppose to forgive them not just once but repeatedly. It was never their fault according to them. I have tried forgiving in the past but then they would start back to doing it again and that's when I said, that's enough. I quit having anything to do with them and it has been worth it!


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## 911 (Jul 10, 2019)

Sounds like some of my domestic calls after a guy beats his wife or gf and the guy blames the woman, “She made me do it. I told her what to do and she messed it up. Why can’t she do anything right? It just really pisses me off and I lose it. This wouldn’t happen if she would just do it right.”


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## Keesha (Jul 10, 2019)

WhatInThe said:


> One of the things I notice in certain families is that were certain people pass on the poop really starts to fly. Maybe some are diplomatic out of respect or the deceased was the reason they maintain any type of relationship.
> 
> The most surprising here is that an 50+ adult child abandoned a surviving parent in less than 6 months after the other died. I guess it was years of suppressed issues and it does take two to argue/fight etc. Took about another 1/2 year before communication picked up. The parent had several medical evenst in which the adult child refused to help out.
> 
> ...


Wow! How did I miss this. Bingo. You are so spot on and exactly where I am now. Suppressed issues or issues either tossed under the carpet can start brewing and coming to the surface to be healed. Some family members would rather they stay as is while others prefer them to be discussed so the family dynamics can change to something much healthier. Some family members do get disowned


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## WhatInThe (Jul 11, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Wow! How did I miss this. Bingo. You are so spot on and exactly where I am now. Suppressed issues or issues either tossed under the carpet can start brewing and coming to the surface to be healed. Some family members would rather they stay as is while others prefer them to be discussed so the family dynamics can change to something much healthier. Some family members do get disowned



Good or bad outcomes issues should not be allowed to brew. Even if the outcome isn't favorable if addressed years or decades earlier at least there's more time for a peace or time for people to change, apologize or adapt. I know if some were banished or ostracized much earlier in life themselves and the family might be much healthier today. For some it might have been a violent push out of the inner circle for ever for others it would peace.

I think it's another case of 'not me' syndrome. Not our/my family. Nah that always happens to other people. That's what I thought and was told until certain realities become glaringly apparent. A family member drinking to get drunk on a routine holiday or get together is bad enough. The hosts and senior family who ignored or enabled it are just as bad. But nobody wants to offend or more important admit they have close family members with problems that only happens in other families. Decades of denial seals up everyone's true opinions and feelings until it all comes bursting out onetime.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 16, 2019)

I thought I wrote the book on not getting along with your kin, but reading some of the above, I'm not alone. My mom had a mental problem that fractured the family.  Yet, now, I can see that we all were growing apart. I don't think I did enough to cause this rift, but apparently, others disagree. There was a time that having the same surname meant something. Not any more. I haven't seen or heard from my "family" in well over a decade. I can't say I miss them.


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## toffee (Jul 16, 2019)

me and my siblings had a strict down trodden up bringing by a man who was our father ' he treated my mother worse ' 
as they all grew up they was well out of it -7 all told' but we all remained close knit -and respected each other 'even all our own kids ,
we all knew we would not repeat what we had to 'ever again .


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## WhatInThe (Jul 16, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> ...There was a time that having the same surname meant something. Not any more...



I think that's where many get into trouble pulling that card when they shouldn't. It's like demanding respect to some. Just don't use it when you want something. Too many are traveling a preconceived notion of a family and not reality. Everybody is too afraid to admit their family would qualify for an episode of Jerry Springer or Dr Phil. 

Today in particular there are so many variables that can keep a family together or apart. Immediate family acted as a support system in the past now many don't want or even care about that.


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 16, 2019)

IMO you really can't expect to get more out of a relationship than you are willing to contribute to it.


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## Judycat (Jul 17, 2019)

My youngest son invited me to come over this weekend. I haven't seen them and the grandkids since May. With them, I usually have to wait until there is room for me. First Christmas they were married I asked if I could come over. He said, "Her family is here, there isn't room for you."  Of course I felt bad. But that's him, I don't think he ever thought there would be anything wrong in saying that. Next Christmas, I asked to come over. He started going on about not wanting to make dinner...I told him, who said anything about dinner, your sister and I will come over, have a cookie, we'll talk a little bit, and go home. After that he relaxed, and usually once a month he makes room to invite me over.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Jul 17, 2019)

So glad you "had room" to raise him.


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## StarSong (Jul 17, 2019)

GeorgiaXplant said:


> So glad you "had room" to raise him.


Indeed.


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## Judycat (Jul 17, 2019)

Yes but for these kids it's neither here nor there anymore. They didn't ask to be born right?


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## Keesha (Jul 17, 2019)

Judycat said:


> My youngest son invited me to come over this weekend. I haven't seen them and the grandkids since May. With them, I usually have to wait until there is room for me. First Christmas they were married I asked if I could come over. He said, "Her family is here, there isn't room for you."  Of course I felt bad. But that's him, I don't think he ever thought there would be anything wrong in saying that. Next Christmas, I asked to come over. He started going on about not wanting to make dinner...I told him, who said anything about dinner, your sister and I will come over, have a cookie, we'll talk a little bit, and go home. After that he relaxed, and usually once a month he makes room to invite me over.



Awwwww.... ... it must be difficult being a mom at times. Good for you for having patience and persistence.  I understand some of it.  Men aren’t as domesticated as women so invitations don’t come easy which is why the wife usually helps with these types of things. My brother invited my parents over to their first house once and once in their second house . That was in a 30 year span.


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## Judycat (Jul 17, 2019)

It would probably be that way here too, if I wasn't persistent with keeping in touch and that's a fine line to walk too.


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## peramangkelder (Jul 17, 2019)

Sorry I can't do this....bit too emotional right now....maybe later....sorry


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## Keesha (Jul 17, 2019)

Judycat said:


> It would probably be that way here too, if I wasn't persistent with keeping in touch and that's a fine line to walk too.


Yes. That’s precisely what I meant. 
A brave woman.


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## Keesha (Jul 17, 2019)

peramangkelder said:


> Sorry I can't do this....bit too emotional right now....maybe later....sorry



Ahhhh.... I’m sorry you are feeling so bad. 
Family can be difficult at the best of times.


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## Judycat (Jul 17, 2019)




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## Keesha (Jul 17, 2019)

Judycat said:


>


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## MeAgain (Jul 24, 2019)

I have a so so relationship with my grown kids. But times have changed and now kids rule so that does become a problem. I have 13 grands and 12 greatgrands.
   I love them all but some don't like to mind at all. 
I have noticed too that kids who have lots of help from their parents are a lot more ' loving ' than those who are independent.
  It is a new kind of society.


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## 911 (Jul 24, 2019)

MeAgain said:


> I have a so so relationship with my grown kids. But times have changed and now kids rule so that does become a problem. I have 13 grands and 12 greatgrands.
> I love them all but some don't like to mind at all.
> I have noticed too that kids who have lots of help from their parents are a lot more ' loving ' than those who are independent.
> It is a new kind of society.



Your last sentence tells it all. Just like us while we were growing up and our parents would say, “I just don’t understand kids today.” Kids today are more free than at any other time. A lot of them have had to raise themselves. This is what has given them the independency that you refer to.


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## MeAgain (Jul 24, 2019)

911 said:


> Your last sentence tells it all. Just like us while we were growing up and our parents would say, “I just don’t understand kids today.” Kids today are more free than at any other time. A lot of them have had to raise themselves. This is what has given them the independency that you refer to.



  Considering what they have to deal with many do ok.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 24, 2019)

MeAgain said:


> Considering what they have to deal with many do ok.


I've seen that more independent scenario play out as I have the ungrateful kids who had a lot of help from their parents to the point of enabling. After certain point all the adults in the room shouldn't be relying on or rationalizing their upbringing or what others had or they didn't. As adults it should be a clean slate and it's those adults that decide what to write on it. If they want to write "I don't care", 'My way or the highway" or "Screw you" so be it. 

Believe or not most people can chose what karma train they'll catch a ride on. Problem is most stick with the decisions they made decades ago.


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## A2ZGrammie (Jul 25, 2019)

You would think with our issues, there would be few problems. Not true.

One son, his family and I are in NC, one son and his family are in Iowa.

I visit Iowa every two years, they promised to visit on alternate years. Hasn't been done, although they take extended vacations.

We finally got them to agree to a family get together, meeting halfway between Iowa and NC, which we have been trying to do for years. We were supposed to meet in Cincinnati, even though I am recovering from a total hip replacement. (no one cares much about that.)

The day before yesterday, Iowa's middle daughter broke her leg. I don't think they are coming. We only have a few days to cancel the hotel reservations. The worst part is, I ADORE this boy. I've had very little time to get to know his family. (He has three very young girls, the oldest is in kindergarten) and I know he adores me. He's my oldest child. The problem has been his wife. She makes no secret that she doesn't like the rest of Nathan's family.

I feel horrible that the little girl broke her leg, but I was so excited to see them. My spouse and I have discussed going there. Nathan has a new home and is very proud of it. Maybe we should. Maybe his wife needs to know that we are going to be a part of their family. But it's a 16 hour drive. We've also discussed spending time with the other family here. We could go to the beach, and we are beach people. That's part of the reason I moved here. And I'm sure the other kids have taken time off to spend on the trip next weekend. I don't know what to do.

Anyone have advice? I'm really torn. I know I need to wait and see if they will cancel, but they are pretty obsessed with their children's health. I think they won't be coming.


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## Judycat (Jul 25, 2019)

You should ask if they are still coming. Mention the grand daughters broken leg. Send a voicemail or a text if they won't answer the phone. This is important because of the reservations. You don't have to mention that.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 25, 2019)

A2ZGrammie said:


> You would think with our issues, there would be few problems.
> 
> .......
> 
> ...



I'd say you can visit your son especially with his knowledge no questions asked. But I wouldn't try pushing any opinions or questions that seem interrogation like especially in front of the daughter in law.

What's her beef with the rest of the family? Bad experience at an event or with a sibling? Unwanted advice?

It could be a bad first impression or lousy assessment on the wife's side. Maybe somebody said or did something they dont even realize. Some people are always sizing people up. While you are casual playing checkers they are constantly playing chess analyzing every single word, emotion, inflection and action.


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## A2ZGrammie (Jul 25, 2019)

I think it's a matter of her contantly analyzing and making quick judgements that she harbors resentment about. We might be more alike than I care to admit, because I catch small things that people do, as a self-proclaimed people watcher. I do believe she holds grudges, and my younger son has admitted that he has upset her. I think our/his sins bounce off the rest of the family, and we are all held accountable. She's even told me that she doesn't like being called by Nathan's last name. I think she takes offense to very casual comments and small misdemeanors that the rest of us really don't think much about.


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## A2ZGrammie (Jul 25, 2019)

Judycat said:


> You should ask if they are still coming. Mention the grand daughters broken leg. Send a voicemail or a text if they won't answer the phone. This is important because of the reservations. You don't have to mention that.


I haven't called them yet, but talked to my younger son. He told me that the trip is off. I suggested to him that we take a vacation with his family. He had been contimplating going to Iowa, but I think he liked the idea of going somewhere with us.

I did contact the booboo girl's dad and asked him to get her balloons. (I'm cheap that way. Florists are outrageous) If he won't, I will order them. Her mother said the leg is broken in several places, so she will have to have surgery.

It's all a huge worry about her, as she carries a gene for cystic fibrosis. She's been a big concern for a couple of years.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 25, 2019)

It sounds like she has you written off as judgemental right or wrong. As far as what another son did if she can be that petty I wouldn't even dwell on what he might have said or done.

Some people just never sync up because of the way the view, treat and/or interact with people. It's not so much one event although every little thing will be entered on a transgression ledger. Also most people don't have the patience to talk about or go over nuanced subjects or events in detail. So this makes a truce or peace much harder to achieve. I back off confrontation a lot with family even if I'm pretty sure I'm right because turning family matters into debates and prosecutions rarely work.  This one reason you really shouldn't talk politics or do business with family.

As seniors and supposedly the wiser I guess we're more responsible to make things work, overlook, forgive etc. In other words if you want to see your son/grand children that you'll have to take most of the initative towards an acceptable relationship.


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## Judycat (Jul 25, 2019)

A2ZGrammie said:


> I haven't called them yet, but talked to my younger son. He told me that the trip is off. I suggested to him that we take a vacation with his family. He had been contimplating going to Iowa, but I think he liked the idea of going somewhere with us.
> 
> I did contact the booboo girl's dad and asked him to get her balloons. (I'm cheap that way. Florists are outrageous) If he won't, I will order them. Her mother said the leg is broken in several places, so she will have to have surgery.
> 
> It's all a huge worry about her, as she carries a gene for cystic fibrosis. She's been a big concern for a couple of years.


So sorry things didn't work out. Just keep in touch. You don't have to call every day or visit to do that Send the balloons too. You are doing it for your grand daughter no one else. It may seem like you are doing all the work right now, but relationships change over time. If you cut them off altogether it will be harder to pick it up again if at all. Adult children become so entrenched in their lives, they forget about older family members. They need reminders we are still thinking about them. Nothing wrong with that.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 25, 2019)

Judycat said:


> .....
> 
> Adult children become so entrenched in their lives, they forget about older family members. They need reminders we are still thinking about them. Nothing wrong with that.



This is what people have to remember about relationships with anyone-their priorities, schedules, energy level etc ARE different and make that much harder to sync up with others let alone seniors  who don't have to worry about things like work/the job. Many family visits or availability is Sunday for many. But many younger aren't worried about seeing mom/grandmom they are worried about going into work Monday. Many dred Mondays and have anxiety all day Sunday because they know Monday is coming. Many seniors don't have that occupying space, time and effort in their head. This is just one example of something that makes it tougher when trying to sync up/have a relationship.

I bring this up because this is one of the reasons some adult family members became estranged. The senior parents started holding more events on Sunday for 'holiday' dinners and/or on various holidays the dinner was so late people had to leave early to get some sleep before work the next day. The senior parents understood per say but as the adult children started leaving earlier and earlier even not making it this laid the foundation for future beefs and arguments that are still playing out years later.


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## gennie (Jul 25, 2019)

Children need all the love they can get and it's a pity when they are used as pawns in family disagreements.  They are the ultimate losers.

A grandparents love  is the closest most of us come to unconditional love.  All other usually comes with conditions.


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## Judycat (Jul 25, 2019)

My youngest son's wife and I don't sync so well either. She was a pampered child and expects everything to work out for her all the time. I have had more disappointments than I can count. I keep my opinions to myself. I see her getting irritated sometimes with things I say and do. Adult life has a way of leveling the playing field though. Sometimes we don't get what we want no matter how great we think we are.


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## Lethe200 (Jul 25, 2019)

A2ZGrammie said:


> .... She's even told me that she doesn't like being called by Nathan's last name.



Ummm...so she goes by her maiden name? I do too, so I'm not surprised she doesn't like being called by the wrong name.

When my DH's family asked me why I didn't change my name, I said I didn't want to. But I was fine with the idea that DH could change his name to mine, if he wanted! DH just laughed. He was fine with the joke, but yes, the older generation was rather taken aback.

Nowadays, of course, it's quite common.


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## A2ZGrammie (Jul 26, 2019)

Lethe200 said:


> Ummm...so she goes by her maiden name? I do too, so I'm not surprised she doesn't like being called by the wrong name.
> 
> When my DH's family asked me why I didn't change my name, I said I didn't want to. But I was fine with the idea that DH could change his name to mine, if he wanted! DH just laughed. He was fine with the joke, but yes, the older generation was rather taken aback.
> 
> Nowadays, of course, it's quite common.


 I understand using a maiden name. I do the same myself, but I'm in a bit of an unusual situation. I don't think my daughter-in-law uses hers, she just likes it better than my son's, which I think is funny. What does it matter? His is way more unique.


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## StarSong (Jul 26, 2019)

One of my DIL's took my son's last name, the other has stayed with her maiden name.  My daughter changed her last name when she married but still sometimes uses her maiden name.  

If it had been the custom to do so when I got married almost 40 years ago, I would have kept my maiden name in business and used my married name for situations that involved my husband/children. 

p.s. A2Z, it seems to matter_ to you_. This is between them.


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## RadishRose (Jul 26, 2019)

I think I would go to Iowa if nothing else, but to see the poor little girl with a badly broken leg.  I'd bring her presents.

I wouldn't discuss anything potentially upsetting, show nothing but love and a relaxed attitude. I'd try not to react to any disagreeable words.  Keep it short, loving and accepting. By showing affection to your dil and grandchildren, you'll reinforce the bond with your son.

Myself, I'd probably have to bring a few socks to shove into my mouth for when I hear something I consider awful!


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