# English Language - Queries, Quirks and Quandries



## SeaBreeze (Dec 3, 2013)

_This thread is all about our everyday use of the English language, including questions and comments about words and phrases, and the parts they play in daily conversations and writing.  Please use this thread to ask any questions you may have, or to voice your opinions on the rapidly changing English language.

Since we're all seniors here, we've seen some words in our lifetime lose popularity, while others have just been created and actually added to official dictionaries such as the Merriam-Webster dictionary.  I have the New Webster Dictionary (deluxe encyclopedic edition) from the early 80s...so I'm sure there are many new words that are missing.  Here are just some words that have been added in recent times...
_


> The 2012 update includes a range of new words that you can judge as delightful or reprehensible, including _bucket list_, _mash-up, craft beer, sexting_, and f-bomb..
> *From Merriam-Webster's Peter Sokolowski, here's the full list of words:
> 
> *
> ...


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 3, 2013)

There is a word that is mispronounced very often. There were several people where I worked that all said it the same way.  I'm not sure if it was the way it was said where they came from, they learned to say it that way as a child...or what. 

The word is *height*.  It should be pronounced *hit* (long "I", so it's sounded like the letter "I").

They pronounce the word like *heith *(like the "TH" in "thanks" at the end).

I've tried to reason with a couple of them, that they should also say *weith*, instead of weight.

Does anyone here say height like that, do you know what I mean??


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## drifter (Dec 3, 2013)

Their pronunciation of height as hit is incorrect. North, south, east and west, the pronunciation is height, not hit, regardless how long the "i" is. You can get a regional pronunciation of many words but they are incorrect.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 3, 2013)

If it was a *short *"I" then it would be hit...as in, "He hit you".  But being a *long *"I", it's pronounced as height...so I think we're both in agreement with that, and we're both pronouncing it correctly.


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## Ozarkgal (Dec 3, 2013)

Another one is creek, pronounced with a long e that some pronounce as crick.  Do you say route or route, long o or short.  In the South here,  _y'all _are "_fixin'__ to_" do something.  I don't care how long I live in the South, those words will never cross my lips..lol

For mispronunciation, this is the one word that drives me crazy, both in pronouncing and misspelling...._prolly_, for probably.


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## Jillaroo (Dec 3, 2013)

_I Australia when we lose something we spell it lose, i have noticed a lot of Americans spell it loose, which to us describes me knickers that are about to fall down._


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## Ozarkgal (Dec 3, 2013)

Jilly, you're correct, and I've seen _loose_ misused a lot as well.


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## Diwundrin (Dec 3, 2013)

I've heard a few doozies that were either just too cute to correct, or I didn't mind the particular person making an arse of themselves every time they said it.

One I've heard a few say is Heightth, I guess because we tack 'th' on to say width and depth they think it applies to height as well.

One had a problem with applying the past and present tense of ring and rung. A time honoured practice of clearing scrub is to ring-bark a tree and let it die, get eaten out by borers and termintes and fall over eventually of it's own accord.  A rural Aunt would announce she was going down to "ring-bark that stand down the gully" and when she got back she would tell us that she had rung-barked them.  No, I wasn't going to correct her while she still carried the axe.

 

It was a family thing, I met her brother once and he used the same term.  (None of them were well known in the schoolyard, they lived a long way out of town when they lived in a house at all, and travelled with their parents following work around the country for most of their school age years so they had a good excuse.  They also had some really strange turns of phrase.

)

Pronunciation is a lost cause these days as there is such a mix of accents and overlapping languages that it's becoming a matter of make your own arrangements and if people still understand what you said you're in front.

 

If you want to get into pronunciation problems try talking to a Kiwi for  an hour.  When you recover from learning that six is pronounced  'correctly' as "sex" then you'll realise that they switch all the vowels  around to make themselves talk funny.   (Fern is busy loading 

 )

Who are we to judge when we have towns like Goonoo Goonoo which is pronounced Gunnergunoo?  Or Wauchope which is Warhope in NSW and Walkup in the NT?  Even many of the old established words have differing 'correct' pronunciations in different places. I used to care but I'm about over it.


Many take offence at being corrected too and you end up with the grammarnazi tag. siiiiigh.  
If they ask fine, if it's going to cause them severe embarrassment in future then it's worth the risk, but otherwise I let it pass.

e.g.... yeah can't 'elp meself...   

  Mum was a stickler for manners and decorum but had the quirk of never saying "knife and fork or just cutlery".  Her youngest brother couldn't contain the smirk any longer and one day when she said "could you bring me a fork 'n knife please?" He asked did she want "a fork 'n spoon too?"  We were all propped on walls laughing uncontrollably while she sat there in total bewilderment. 

When everyone had gone she demanded to know what we were laughing at.  So I explained.  Was she embarrassed? Nooooo.  I was told off in no uncertain terms for even thinking she would mean such a thing.  She just didn't understand that it was the fact that she didn't mean it that made it so funny.
We came from different planets Mum and I.

Just thought of one which flashes a person's IQ in neon on their forehead.  "Arksed" instead of asked.  ... and of course there's Dubya's iconic mispronunciation of nuclear.  I've even heard professional TV journos say "nukula".  That one makes my ears hurt.

The 'new' words.  I gradually got used to them, and now fully appreciate that they are usually a great improvement to the ability of the language to cover complex situations simply, aptly and conveniently.  
Jane Austin would have taken a chapter to cover "clusterf***" and 7 paragraphs to explain an 'aha moment'.  I won't use it to replace epiphany though, that remains a favourite.  
Cartoonists did it best when the light bulb was pictured over a character's head.  It was a brilliant innovation in 'sight' language and perhaps the birth of the emoticon?

Anyone else see emoticons as a mighty fine replacement for words when used thoughtfully?  
Maybe in the future the English language will be written like heiroglyphs.  Full circle.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 3, 2013)

Ozarkgal, I've always said creek, and Jill I agree it's lose, not loose. layful:  Prolly...ain't even goin' there, if I knew anyone that was saying that I'd have to slap them, LOL! 

What about coupon...I say the OU...but some people say coopon.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 3, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> One I've heard a few say is Heightth, I guess because we tack 'th' on to say width and depth they think it applies to height as well.
> 
> Many take offence at being corrected too and you end up with the grammarnazi tag. siiiiigh.
> If they ask fine, if it's going to cause them severe embarrassment in future then it's worth the risk, but otherwise I let it pass.
> ...



Now I can understand better where these people are coming from with heightth (good way to spell it!).  I always had to compare it to weight when I explained it to them.  But you're right, people do take offence and I only correct someone if I'm very friendly with them, and if it's important to let them know (and they'd appreciate the info).

Who can forget Dubya mispronouncing nuclear, LOL! :witless:


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## Ozarkgal (Dec 3, 2013)

Is it depot..long e , or depot, with a short e?

Coupon with a long u.

Di..I really like emoticons because sometimes the typed word just needs some emotion for emphasis during internet conversations.

:saywhat:


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## SifuPhil (Dec 3, 2013)

I was listening to roomie talk on the phone this evening describing her visit to the doctors (I had correctly diagnosed that she had had a TIA and insisted she go) and she was telling her friend how she had to have a "bunch of testes". :hypnotysed:

I thought I had misheard, but after the fourth or fifth time I was sure of what she was saying. 

I don't quite get how "energy drink" was first used in 1904, though. 

Pennsylvania is full of mispronunciations, but to be fair so is every other place I've ever lived - people seem to love embracing their regionalisms. In New York it was that NY pronunciation - "*New Yawk*", "*Dese, Dem, Dat*" and "*Dose*" for "These, Them That" and "Those", "*fodda*" and "*mudda*" for "father" and "mother".

Here in PA what drives me to drink is the old "*H'ain-it*" or "*Hain't*" or even "*H'ain-it or no?*" (not sure how they would spell it even if they could spell) for "Isn't it" or "Isn't".

A pair of phrases I've heard from _both_ sides of the big pond is "*go with*" and "*have you been yet*" - they seem to be excessively lazy phrases that the utterer can't be bothered completing. 

"*Are you going to go with?*" Go with WHOM? 

"*Have you been yet?*" Have I been WHAT?!? Finish your &$^#% sentence, you gibbering twit!

(This last example came to mind because I was once again watching all the old episodes of _Fawlty Towers_ and a proper British lady used it ). 

Emoticons are nice, I suppose - I use them myself, almost to distraction - but truth be told they're a lazy person's way of using descriptive writing. I don't doubt that they'll be the future English language though - Buddha knows it's been destroyed enough as it is.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 3, 2013)

It's depot, with a long E.  Another one that bugs me to hear is conversating.  Instead of someone saying they were conversing with another, or having a conversation.  Seems like I'm hearing that one more and more often, usually when shopping at Walmart, lol! 

What about often?  I was always taught not to pronounce the T, and say it like offen.  But many people say the T.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 3, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> ... What about coupon...I say the OU...but some people say coopon.



But then do you also say "cuthe" for "couth"? 

Why didn't they just spell it "quepon" from the start?


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## SifuPhil (Dec 3, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> It's depot, with a long E.  Another one that bugs me to hear is conversating.  Instead of someone saying they were conversing with another, or having a conversation.  Seems like I'm hearing that one more and more often, usually when shopping at Walmart, lol!



There was a time a few years back when it became fashionable in the corporate world to make verbs out of nouns. So we had conversate, decruit, diarize, partnering ... the list is long and irritating. 



> What about often?  I was always taught not to pronounce the T, and say it like offen.  But many people say the T.



"Offen".


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 3, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I was listening to roomie talk on the phone this evening describing her visit to the doctors (I had correctly diagnosed that she had had a TIA and insisted she go) and she was telling her friend how she had to have a "bunch of testes". :hypnotysed:
> 
> I don't quite get how "energy drink" was first used in 1904, though.
> 
> ...



Hope your roomie is okay Phil, my mother in law was having those TIAs, not a good thing at all.   But it's pretty cute that she said testes, we can lovingly forgive her on that one. :love_heart:

Maybe that's when they started putting coke in coke soft drinks, and might have referred to them as energy drinks back in the day?

I'm going for a walk now, wanna come with?


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## SifuPhil (Dec 3, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> Hope your roomie is okay Phil, my mother in law was having those TIAs, not a good thing at all.   But it's pretty cute that she said testes, we can lovingly forgive her on that one. :love_heart:



She's OK, thanks for asking, but it's her third one in several years. Still smoking those cheap cigarillo things, though.  Doctors said the problem was that she stopped taking her Plavix for a few days, and while I don't doubt that had some bearing I still believe it's lifestyle-related - lack of exercise, smoking and over-eating. 



> Maybe that's when they started putting coke in coke soft drinks, and might have referred to them as energy drinks back in the day?



I hadn't even considered that. Still, seems a bit odd ... 



> I'm going for a walk now, wanna come with?



GAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! 

layful:


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 3, 2013)

What about people who say irregardless, instead of regardless.  Got my hair cut recently and the gal was a real chatterbox.  She must have said irregardless around 30 times in 15 minutes.   Never corrected her though, not that anal.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 3, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> What about people who say irregardless, instead of regardless.  Got my hair cut recently and the gal was a real chatterbox.  She must have said irregardless around 30 times in 15 minutes.   Never corrected her though, not that anal.



I have to admit somewhat sheepishly that until a few years ago I was guilty of the same thing. I don't know how that one got under my Good Grammar Radar but it did.

Radar, there's a weird one for you ... started off as an acronym, RADAR, but has now entered the language as the noun "radar".


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## Jillaroo (Dec 3, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Jilly, you're correct, and I've seen _loose_ misused a lot as well.



Pull your pants up Oz, don't know where to look


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 3, 2013)

She does have pretty toe nails though, huh Jilly! layful:


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## Diwundrin (Dec 4, 2013)

> "*Have you been yet?*" Have I been WHAT?!? Finish your &$^#% sentence, you gibbering twit!


That's just an overly polite euphanism for did you remember to go to the loo before we leave? 

We in OZ and NZ have been bombarded with all manner of weird and wonderful pronunciations from birth through our exposure to foreign (yes you too are technically 'foreign' here) entertainment media.  The majority of movies were US made, and in our house at least, most TV shows sprang from the UK. Not to mention the many and varied accents of European and Asians immigrants around us every day.

The US has it's own range of accents of course but nothing compared to variety of them from the UK where the further North they come from the more words seem to be pronounced with an 'ook' in them.

While all this was being absorbed we still had our own distinctive accents and pronunciations (wish I could invent a shorter word for that!) to preserve.....or.. if you grew up in NZ.... Wheel ill thess was being ibsorbed we stull hid our own dustunctive iccents and....

So we subconciously processed the translations without thinking too much about it really.  
*Word...... pronounced in  OZ.......=.........US...........*
New..........Nyew...................................Noo
Coupon.....Coopon................................Cowpon to Cyewpon?
Couth.......Cooth, same as youth................can't recall hearing it.
Laugh.......Larf......................................Laff
Vase.........Varze...................................Vayce/Vayze
Class........Cl arse..................................Cl ass  (see a pattern there?

)
Depot.......Deppo...................................Deepo
Often........Offen
Defence....da fence................................Dee fence

But then we come to the best one/s.
Route .......Root..(not used much)...........Rout
Rut...........if it's in the road =rut. If organisms are involved it's   =root.  (_Who's gonna bother with saying fornication when root will do and it is every so slightly less confronting than the F bomb?)  _ By extension the term "he was firmly rooted" doesn't mean he was settled in, it means he was pretty much f****d up.  Less than impressive, or disliked, men named Ted are often nicknamed 'Roo' for that reason.

We don't use route much because of that little problem.  You won't hear an Aussie ask another "Which route are you planning on taking?" because it would imply they were being asked if they'd made a decision about which intimate friend would be accompanying them.


A 'rout' here still means an embarrassingly messy defeat and would simply elicit a "What?"   The travel plan would be queried instead as "Which way are ya going?'' 
The problem with 'route' all stems from it's differing pronunciation bending it's meaning.


I tend to write as I think and sometimes as I imagine how those who I write about, or to, 'hear' or 'say' things rather than read them, and so write in an 'accent' when it seems appropriate, does that bother people at all?  
It probably won't change my way of writing but I'm kind of curious as I've never really given that much thought before.  Just wonderin'.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 4, 2013)

It is interesting to hear how those in Australia and New Zealand pronounce certain words.  Don't bother me at all to write with an accent, makes it sound like you're really speaking to the person.  Sometimes I'll write in different accents to get the point across. 

I've noticed lately when I go to the library that a lot of people are sending or receiving cell phone calls.   Anyhoo, full grown adults will tell the other person that they are at the "liberry". 

One word I've always struggled with is February.  It should be pronounced Febrooary...but it's much easier to say Feb*u*ary, and leave out that R.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 4, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> I've noticed lately when I go to the library that a lot of people are sending or receiving cell phone calls.   Anyhoo, full grown adults will tell the other person that they are at the "liberry".



The mind reels at what could happen if only they would put down their phones in that place ... 



> One word I've always struggled with is February.  It should be pronounced Febrooary...but it's much easier to say Feb*u*ary, and leave out that R.



It DOES seem a more natural ponuonsiation, doesn't it?


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 4, 2013)

I know, the library used to be like a church...not anymore.  Another one is people who say "I'm not *for* sure", instead of saying "I'm not sure".


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## That Guy (Dec 4, 2013)

Living on a south pacific island for awhile as a boy, learning to speak pidgin english was a challenge, indeed.  Coming back to the states as a freshman in high school and still talkin' da kine made me a weirdo except among the surf punks with aloha nui loa. Geev um Brah!


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## SifuPhil (Dec 4, 2013)

That Guy said:


> ... Geev um Brah!



What eef they already HAF um brah? Or doo not LIKE to ware brah? Do Erin go brah?


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## Warrigal (Dec 4, 2013)

Great thread. I'm loving it but have little to add.

One word I've probably always mispronounced seems to have been handed to me by my mother - we pronounce 'squeamish' as 'squawmish'. Anyone else do this ?


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 4, 2013)

Haven't pronounced squeamish like that here Warrigal, don't hear that word very often, but never heard anyone say squawmish.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 4, 2013)

Something that always confuses me, is whether to put quotation marks before or after the period, question/exclamation mark at the end of a sentence.  Luckily I'm not writing anything important, or I'd have to look it up.  I see from SifuPhil's post he's got them after, at the very end.  Since he's a well-known professional writer, I'll take that as bible.


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## Jillaroo (Dec 4, 2013)

_Nope not here i pronounce it Squeamish_


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## Davey Jones (Dec 4, 2013)

I think you just LOST something.





Jillaroo said:


> _I Australia when we lose something we spell it lose, i have noticed a lot of Americans spell it loose, which to us describes me knickers that are about to fall down_


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## Diwundrin (Dec 4, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> I've noticed lately when I go to the library that a lot of people are sending or receiving cell phone calls.   Anyhoo, full grown adults will tell the other person that they are at the "liberry".
> 
> One word I've always struggled with is February.  It should be pronounced Febrooary...but it's much easier to say Feb*u*ary, and leave out that R.



We often mangle those too but again slightly differently, and if anything even worse!
 Not all the time,  we can and do 'talk nice' when we have to, (to tourists etc)  but tend to get 'casual' among ourselves sometimes.
  The usual lazy mispron~s heard are:
Translation: Library = lie bree .... February = Feb ree, Feb yew ree, even Febba ree (My own bad habit is Febra wary

)
For some odd reason January fares better but sometimes it's Janya ree or Jan yew ree.
Weekdays are often dees or even tees,  as in Mundee Tyewsdee Wensdee Thersdee Frydee Sattee/Sadda dee and Sundee.

We abbreviate shamelessly too. Everything we possibly can. Dropping half a word or phrase and replacing it with ee or o does the trick.
 e.g. Biscuits are bikkies, never cookies (except on deceptive packet labels). We rarely hear the word cookie except pertaining to computers, or as a very brave man's nickname for his wife.
A Service/Gas station is pronounced Servo, a Bowling club is the Bolo. 

We transpose double Rs in names to Zs, Barry = Baz or Bazza. Sharron = Shaz or Shazza.  It's more a tongue in cheek 'familiarity' tradition than laziness and only spoken that way to those who are well known or friends.

Complicated innit?  Gets worse, different States and cities have different quirks and terms. Even different suburbs do. Things have changed.

Back in the early 50s a study  found that Australia was one of very few 'Westernised'  Countries where it was impossible to tell which region a person had grown up in as it was the most homogenous language and accent around.  From Perth to Sydney, country and city we sounded much the same. (Except of course for ABC news readers who talked like toffy Poms.) 
 It's quite sobering to watch a really old newsreel and hear how very differently we sounded and spoke back then.  

I'd hazard a guess that OZ has been the fastest evolving English language changer on the planet.
 In 60 years we've progressed from being Nationally homogenous to being able to pinpoint a person's origins to a particular group of suburbs in Sydney, or as coming from Perth 'Pirrith'  from their 'accent' alone. We instantly recognise that someone who says muick for milk is from Adelaide, and those who end a sentence with eh? and can still say six, which eliminates Kiwis, have been in Queensland too long.

We've absorbed the various and numerous different cultures/terms/accents/phrasing from immigrants and media and adapted them into our language, for good or bad.  So much for multiculturalism, the 'old' Aussies are the ones who have assimilated.

I never understood why people refer to the Aussie drawl because we speak a lot faster than many, Americans and Canadians in particular. We have to slow it down to be comprehended, my Canadian friend was always waving me down to a slower speed.

 Now it has speeded up even more and the acronyms and abbreviations make it harder to follow younger conversations than ever sometimes.

It's kind of sad for we older 'ears', but that's how it goes for a 'living' language.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 4, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> Something that always confuses me, is whether to put quotation marks before or after the period, question/exclamation mark at the end of a sentence.  Luckily I'm not writing anything important, or I'd have to look it up.  I see from SifuPhil's post he's got them after, at the very end.  Since he's a well-known professional writer, I'll take that as bible.



Well, now ... if I might expound upon that premise ... *ahem* ... 

The "rules", such as they are, for inside or out are complicated and dependent upon whether you are in the US or the UK. Most American usage will find periods and commas *inside* the quotes; Brits will place periods _inside_ and commas _outside_. But you'll find writers that quite often switch teams and don't stick to their own conventions. 

In addition, Brits use _single_ quotation marks while Americans use _double_. Again, it's a rule only in the sense that it's waiting to be broken, especially since that same rule demands that quotes *within* quotes use _single_ quote marks for the Americans and _double_ for the Brits. :hopelessness:   

Confused yet? Yeah, so am I. I only do it the way I do it because of years of repetition. I've never had an editor yet (American) change it up on me, so that's what I stick with.


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## Diwundrin (Dec 4, 2013)

> Most American usage will find periods and commas *inside* the quotes; Brits will place periods _inside_ and commas _outside_.



Sounds right, I don't remember if I was taught the 'Brit' period inside, comma outside method but that's how I do it when I'm paying enough attention to care.

I'm guilty of using single quotation marks to stress a sarcastic or ironic word or term. 
 It makes sense to me but I often wonder if it does to anyone else.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 4, 2013)

It's the kind of thing I could and usually would obsess over, but not right now - I have enough on my plate.


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## drifter (Dec 4, 2013)

When and if you can look at all these comments on the English language you realize how interesting it is. I was fixing to comment on some of y'all's remarks, but realized there were to many to set right. SifuPhil is correct; in the US, everything goes inside the quotation marks. I have used 'fixing to' far too many times before I realized everyone else did not use the term. I might have used 'y'all' more had I known how to spell it. Instead, I wrote it out.


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## Warrigal (Dec 4, 2013)

I just found a dictionary site with audio pronunciation for British English and North American English.
It only gives standard pronunciations, not regional ones.

Interesting.

http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/creek


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## That Guy (Dec 5, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> What eef they already HAF um brah? Or doo not LIKE to ware brah? Do Erin go brah?



"Geev um, Brah" was usually (and probably still) said when somebody is paddling into a good wave.  Akin to "Go for it!"


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## Ozarkgal (Dec 5, 2013)

How about this word: Nauseous..Is it Nosh..us, or Nozzie..us ?

I say.. to may toe, you say... tah mah toe..

Had a friend from Boston, she pronounced drawer, drawrer and bra, brarer, always that extra 'r' thing.


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## Diwundrin (Dec 5, 2013)

Norz yuss or norzy yuss.
Tum ah ta usually. 
Drawer = draw, or if we're being posh = drawa


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## SifuPhil (Dec 5, 2013)

Nawsh -us


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## SifuPhil (Dec 5, 2013)

How about bureau - beyur-o or beyur-a? I always had trouble telling the difference between my underwear drawa and the FBI.


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## Jillaroo (Dec 5, 2013)

_Nor se us
Ore garno you say Oreggano_


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## Diwundrin (Dec 5, 2013)

Byou ro .  We don't encounter that underwear confusion as we don't call furniture bureaus, we call 'em chests of drawers.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 5, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Byou ro .  We don't encounter that underwear confusion as we don't call furniture bureaus, we call 'em chests of drawers.



Oh ... I thought you guys would call them armoires or bureaux or some other artsy-fartsy term ... 

It IS terribly confusing for me, though, as FBI can also stand for Fat Boy's Intimates.


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## Sid (Dec 6, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Byou ro .  We don't encounter that underwear confusion as we don't call furniture bureaus, we call 'em chests of drawers.




  Chester droors


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## Sid (Dec 6, 2013)

Now I  am really confused.

 Poke=sack
 Ass= donkey
 Poke in ass =goose


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## Diwundrin (Dec 6, 2013)

Sid said:


> Chester droors



That's them!


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 25, 2013)

I've seen *learnt* used a lot online.  Instead of "I learned the hard way"...they say "I learnt the hard way".


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## SifuPhil (Dec 25, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> I've seen *learnt* used a lot online.  Instead of "I learned the hard way"...they say "I learnt the hard way".



I think in British English "learnt" and "learned" are used interchangeably, whereas in American English there IS no such word as "learnt".


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## Ozarkgal (Dec 25, 2013)

Irregardless, there is no such word..just saw a news reporter use this the other day...She prolly hadn't learnt any better..lol


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 25, 2013)

The girl cutting my hair one time was saying irregardless every three sentences...just bit my tongue and didn't say a word.  Like the people that say I could care less, instead of I couldn't care less.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 25, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I think in British English "learnt" and "learned" are used interchangeably, whereas in American English there IS no such word as "learnt".



I guess I just have to always remember that articles online are not always written by Americans.


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## Diwundrin (Dec 25, 2013)

Yeah, 'American English', well, perhaps we won't go there. 





> Both _learned_ and _learnt _are alternative spellings of the past tense and past participle of the verb learn.
> 
> *Learnt* is more common in British English, and *learned* in American English.
> 
> ...



I've always thought it fair that the spelling of English as a language is the preserve of the people who invented it, and allow them to set the rules.
Just sayin'.


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## That Guy (Dec 25, 2013)

Basically, I'm like all like you know.  You know?  I know. Amazing . . .


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## SifuPhil (Dec 25, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Yeah, 'American English', well, perhaps we won't go there.



Thou shalt not, on pain of thy garters snapping upon thy legges! 





> I've always thought it fair that the spelling of English as a language is the preserve of the people who invented it, and allow them to set the rules.
> Just sayin'.



If I submitted (NOT "submittt") a manuscript to my editors that had any of those "T" words in them they'd cut my advances in half. 

And if we were to wait for the inventors of the English language to set any more rules, we'd have an _awfully_ long wait!


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## Diwundrin (Dec 25, 2013)

Perhaps you were spoilt to believe that the knowledge spilt upon you by the teachers at whose feet you knelt was the only correct interpretation of the rules to live by.
The way words are spelt is burnt into the young psyche and leant upon as the foundation of truth, and then leapt upon as the reason to exclude other formerly undreamt of alternatives.layful:

(That may just squeeze past a UK publisher.)


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## Warrigal (Dec 25, 2013)

> Perhaps you were spoilt to believe that the knowledge spilt upon you by the teachers at whose feet you knelt was the only correct interpretation of the rules to live by.
> The way words are spelt is burnt into the young psyche and leant upon as the foundation of truth, and then leapt upon as the reason to exclude other formerly undreamt of alternatives.layful:




 :lofl:


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## SifuPhil (Dec 25, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Perhaps you were spoilt to believe that the knowledge spilt upon you by the teachers at whose feet you knelt was the only correct interpretation of the rules to live by.
> The way words are spelt is burnt into the young psyche and leant upon as the foundation of truth, and then leapt upon as the reason to exclude other formerly undreamt of alternatives.layful:
> 
> (That may just squeeze past a UK publisher.)



That was good, really good - I just doft my hat to you.

Language is a fluid thing, always changing, always morphing into something that isn't immediately recognized nor ultimately accepted. The risk we run in _not_ accepting it is not being able to communicate.  

But I doubt that any future wars will develop over the learned/learnt debacle. 

I don't know about you, but I never knelt at my teachers' feet - there were laws against that sort of thing even way back then.


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## Diwundrin (Dec 25, 2013)

> I don't know about you, but I never knelt at my teachers' feet - there were laws against that sort of thing even way back then.



Calling 'Literary licence' on it... (whilst pretending to have missed the double-entendre 

)  ... but... yes, I do remember sitting on floors around teachers on chairs casting pearls of wisdom into our shell-like ears if that qualifies.  Warri would know. 


.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 25, 2013)

Hmmm ... the only time I ever sat at a teacher's feet was in martial arts class, and THEN only because it was the Oriental tradition.


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## Casper (Dec 25, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Perhaps you were spoilt to believe that the knowledge spilt upon you by the teachers at whose feet you knelt was the only correct interpretation of the rules to live by.
> The way words are spelt is burnt into the young psyche and leant upon as the foundation of truth, and then leapt upon as the reason to exclude other formerly undreamt of alternatives.layful:



_*They must definitely be burnt into my psyche......I regularly spell them this way.....*_


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## Pappy (Dec 26, 2013)

When a person is standing in a line waiting to get in a certain place, people down in the New York City area ask, Are you waiting on line. No, damnit, I'm waiting in line. If I was waiting on line, I would be sitting at my computer.layful:


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## Rob (Jan 17, 2015)

The English language must be a real minefield for non-native speakers ... The prefix "in" usually denotes the opposite of something, as in "injustice" is the opposite of "justice", so, why do "flammable" and "inflammable" mean the same thing, and the opposite is "non-inflammable" ?!?!


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## Ameriscot (Jan 17, 2015)

Ozarkgal said:


> Jilly, you're correct, and I've seen _loose_ misused a lot as well.



That one drives me nuts and it's becoming more common online!!


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## hollydolly (Jan 17, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> That one drives me nuts and it's becoming more common online!!



Yes I totally agree about those who use the word ''loose'' instead of the word lose when talking about actually losing something..it drives me to distraction.

I also detest the use of AkS instead of Ask which seems to be used mainly by the black community 

...and after watching Judge Judy on TV and hearing so many defendants  utter the word Burglarized..I was metaphorically pulling my hair out..until I discovered that it's actually a north American term for Burgled ..so I let you all off that one lol


..but the one that drives me most insane is the endemic,  it would seem...use of the word ''of'' instead of Have ....arrrgggghhh I could scream!!


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## RadishRose (Jan 17, 2015)

HD, how about "I could care less" when one means "I COULDN'T care less" ? I hate that one.


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## Butterfly (Jun 22, 2016)

I just stumbled upon this old thread.  It's a hoot!  I really enjoyed it.


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## oakapple (Jul 10, 2016)

Yes, it's a good old Victor Meldrew thread (One Foot In The Grave) British sit com, for those who haven't seen it.


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## Falcon (Jul 21, 2016)

How about reiterate?   Iterate means "repeat".

SO REiterate means repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat~~~~~~~~~~~ Well, you get the idea.


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## Butterfly (Jul 23, 2016)

I've always wondered about flammable and inflammable.  It seems they mean the same thing.  But, for instance, soluble and insoluble mean the opposite.  weird!


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## oakapple (Aug 12, 2016)

Flammable and inflammable mean entirely different things, as anyone would find out if they stood too close to an open fire in a winceyette nightie! Always buy inflammable nightwear.


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## Meanderer (Feb 2, 2017)




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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 6, 2017)

SeaBreeze said:


> There is a word that is mispronounced very often. There were several people where I worked that all said it the same way.  I'm not sure if it was the way it was said where they came from, they learned to say it that way as a child...or what.
> 
> The word is *height*.  It should be pronounced *hit* (long "I", so it's sounded like the letter "I").
> 
> ...


Never heard anyone pronounce the word like that Seabreeze and I've been on this earth a long time.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 6, 2017)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Never heard anyone pronounce the word like that Seabreeze and I've been on this earth a long time.



Hey, you're not too far from me here in PA, and the local Wilkes-Barrians seem to mostly pronounce it that way. Of course, we're talking generations of coal miners and dress factory workers ... not to disparage those fields, but there weren't exactly high educational standards for the jobs. I notice the younger generations don't have the same speech patterns as do the seniors here.


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## Butterfly (Apr 6, 2017)

I hear it pronounced that way sometimes, not often, though.  If I hear one more person pronounce nuclear as new-cue-lar, however, I may scream.


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## SeaBreeze (May 24, 2017)

*Weird*

I always remembered the rule I learned as a young child, *"i before e, except after c, or when sounded like a, as in neighbor and weigh"*....but words like weird always threw me off until it was clear that this rule was not hard set.  Confusing to kids learning English as their first language, must be very confusing to those who are trying to learn English as their second language.   :saywhat:  https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/i-before-e-except-after-c




> *I Before E Except After C*
> 
> *The famous rhyme is wrong. Here's why.*
> 
> ...


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## Tommy (Jan 2, 2021)

For those who live near the sea, if a west wind comes from the west then why doesn't an offshore wind come from offshore?


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## Ken N Tx (Jan 2, 2021)

If it is partly sunny today will it be partly moony tonight??


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## oslooskar (Jun 7, 2021)

Diwundrin said:


> I've always thought it fair that the spelling of English as a language is the preserve of the people who invented it, and allow them to set the rules.
> Just sayin'.


On the contrary, the spelling of any language that uses an alphabet is the preserve of those who invented Alphabetic writing. They made the rules ------which, needless to say, English spelling today is in violation of. In fact, this is why it takes children in the English-speaking world an extra two years to be reading at the same level as their peers in Finland, where the written language, orthography, is an exact representation of the spoken language.


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## cdestroyer (Jun 9, 2021)

rough, tough,enough, dough??


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## Meanderer (Dec 27, 2021)




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## Lewkat (Dec 27, 2021)

Ozarkgal said:


> Another one is creek, pronounced with a long e that some pronounce as crick.  Do you say route or route, long o or short.  In the South here,  _y'all _are "_fixin' to_" do something.  I don't care how long I live in the South, those words will never cross my lips..lol
> 
> For mispronunciation, this is the one word that drives me crazy, both in pronouncing and misspelling...._prolly_, for probably.


Pennsylvanians call it a "crick."  Used to drive me nuts when I'd go to see my relatives in Philly and hear this.  My mother was from there, but had gone to private schools and pronounced it correctly.


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## Lewkat (Dec 27, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Something that always confuses me, is whether to put quotation marks before or after the period, question/exclamation mark at the end of a sentence.  Luckily I'm not writing anything important, or I'd have to look it up.  I see from SifuPhil's post he's got them after, at the very end.  Since he's a well-known professional writer, I'll take that as bible.


After.


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## Lewkat (Dec 27, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> It is interesting to hear how those in Australia and New Zealand pronounce certain words.  Don't bother me at all to write with an accent, makes it sound like you're really speaking to the person.  Sometimes I'll write in different accents to get the point across.
> 
> I've noticed lately when I go to the library that a lot of people are sending or receiving cell phone calls.  Anyhoo, full grown adults will tell the other person that they are at the "liberry".
> 
> One word I've always struggled with is February.  It should be pronounced Febrooary...but it's much easier to say Feb*u*ary, and leave out that R.


Webster's dictionary now states that if one says Febuary, that too is acceptable in social circles.


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## Meanderer (Dec 27, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> Webster's dictionary now states that if one says Febuary, that too is acceptable in social circles.


My grandma always said: "Don't worry, let February"!


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## Alligatorob (Dec 27, 2021)

Tommy said:


> For those who live near the sea, if a west wind comes from the west then why doesn't an offshore wind come from offshore?


Good question, for which I have no answer.

Also winds are usually described by the direction they come from, where as ocean currents are described by the direction they are going.  Another conundrum of the English language.


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## Capt Lightning (Dec 27, 2021)

Presumably it's because an 'offshore'  comes 'off the shore' from the land,  while a 'sea breeze' or 'onshore' wind, blows on to the shore from the sea.  In the geographical sense,  'offshore'  means " away from or at a distance from the land".


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## JaniceM (Dec 30, 2021)

O.K., here's one:  I've not met anyone in this locale who knows what 'nervy' means.  Google's synonyms aren't really accurate.  Anyone have input???

Another is 'tacky.'

And also:  when not referring to directions, 'backward' and 'forward' are about two entirely different subjects.  

I wonder if these are all regional terms??


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## Murrmurr (Dec 30, 2021)

JaniceM said:


> O.K., here's one:  I've not met anyone in this locale who knows what *'nervy' *means.  Google's synonyms aren't really accurate.  Anyone have input???
> 
> Another is 'tacky.'
> 
> ...


Proper use would be To have nerve; _she has nerve_, rather than _she's nervy_.


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## JaniceM (Dec 30, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Proper use would be To have nerve; _she has nerve_, rather than _she's nervy_.


I don't know whether you're joking or dead-serious.


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## jerry old (Dec 30, 2021)

Na, tacky is one of them women that just ain't right. 
She fast, got loose ways and stuff like that, what you might call easy.


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## JaniceM (Dec 30, 2021)

jerry old said:


> Na, tacky is one of them women that just ain't right.
> She fast, got loose ways and stuff like that, what you might call easy.


Really?  is that what it means in Texas???


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## helenbacque (Dec 30, 2021)

Anyone ever heard the word poach (as in cooking an egg) pronounced porch.  I had a close relative who did and I had to bite my tongue to keep from correcting it.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 30, 2021)

JaniceM said:


> I don't know whether you're joking or dead-serious.


I'm serious. It's fine to say someone is nervy, it's more correct to say they have nerve...you know, like, She's got some nerve, or That ingrate had the nerve to complain, She has the nerve to take risks.

Am I misunderstanding the issue?


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## JaniceM (Dec 31, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I'm serious. It's fine to say someone is nervy, it's more correct to say they have nerve...you know, like, She's got some nerve, or That ingrate had the nerve to complain, She has the nerve to take risks.
> 
> Am I misunderstanding the issue?


Somewhat-  because slang isn't always grammatically-correct.


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