# Coronavirus



## Gardenlover

6 Chinese cities now quarantined as videos of collapsing people circulate
https://www.wnd.com/2020/01/six-chinese-cities-now-quarantined-videos-collapsing-people-circulate/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=wnd&utm_campaign=wjstudio&utm_content=2020-01-24

Lot of nasty stuff in the news lately. Is it simply sensationalism or we over spending on Mother Nature's credit card?


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## RadishRose

I know, it's crazy! These viruses or flu's often seem to come from Asia, I rememeber as a child, the Asian Flu.  The Spanish Flu killed millions in our grandparents time.


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## bingo

i've  heard they eat a lot of weird stuff...raw meat...and other horrible sounding things


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## hollydolly

bingo said:


> i've  heard they eat a lot of weird stuff...raw meat...and other horrible sounding things


 they are saying that the virus could be coming from people who eat affected  Bats as a delicacy or from snakes... also bats, and bat droppings are used in a lot of Chinese ''medicine'' 

There's a video which has gone viral in the last 24 hours and in all the media  showing a woman eating a bat in an upmarket restaurant in Wuhan the city where the virus is said to have originated...


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## Gardenlover

hollydolly said:


> they are saying that the virus could be coming from people who eat affected  Bats as a delicacy or from snakes... also bats, and bat droppings are used in a lot of Chinese ''medicine''
> 
> There's a video which has gone viral in the last 24 hours and in all the media  showing a woman eating a bat in an upmarket restaurant in Wuhan the city where the virus is said to have originated...


*YUCK *


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## hollydolly

Gardenlover said:


> *YUCK *


 I know it's absolutely disgusting...but apparently it's a supposed delicacy there, and this is what the experts are determining has  potentially created this horrendous virus...


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## Gardenlover

No freaking way - I'd eat locusts first.


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## Gary O'

bingo said:


> i've heard they eat a lot of weird stuff...raw meat...and other horrible sounding things


They do....and it all looks even worse (in filthy looking aquariums)
I pretty much stuck with chips and beer when there


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## Aunt Bea

I'm interested in understanding the source of the virus.

I'm also following the progress on the 1,000-bed hospital being built in approx. 10 days, amazing.

In a few days, this will probably fade from the news cycle like so many stories that are sensationalized and then seem to just disappear.


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## win231

Wow, eating a bat (that looks like it's still alive)
When most people do eat meat, it's disguised in taste, smell & appearance so it doesn't look like what it is - a dead animal.


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## bingo

hollydolly said:


> they are saying that the virus could be coming from people who eat affected  Bats as a delicacy or from snakes... also bats, and bat droppings are used in a lot of Chinese ''medicine''
> 
> There's a video which has gone viral in the last 24 hours and in all the media  showing a woman eating a bat in an upmarket restaurant in Wuhan the city where the virus is said to have originated...



i've  also heard they eat....human fetus....sick...culture


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## Warrigal

Australia now has one confirmed case of the new virus. He is being treated in hospital in Melbourne.

Eating bats is not confined to Asia. When we were in PNG having lunch at a nice hotel we watched a man in the park outside bring down a large fruit bat with  a slingshot. He scooped it up and took it away with him, presumably to eat in the same way that he might eat a pigeon.


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## win231

The Corona Virus is a goldmine. (just in time to compensate for the increasing lack of interest in the flu shot)

1.   Lots of scare advertising about how easy it is to get it, how sick it makes you, & how many people are dying of it.

2.   Then:  "Luckily we've developed a vaccine for it; we recommend everyone get it, especially the young, the old, & those with compromised immune systems." (which everyone has)

3.   Even if the vaccine doesn't work & you still get the Corona Virus, you'll get well sooner.

4.  Guilt advertising - If you don't get the vaccine, you'll make other people sick.

5.  We care so much, we're offering free groceries to everyone who gets the vaccine.


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## Wren

Word has it that the main cause of the spread of the virus is because of a wet market, Huanan Seafood Market, which sells bizarre and exotic animals such as dogs, snakes, mice, bats, peacocks, koalas, and ostriches for the locals to consume.


Nice .......


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## Mike

20 cities isolated, a BBC news crew went into the area
where it all began, they said that they were stopped at
a police roadblock and told that they could go in with
no trouble, but that they will not be allowed out till the
isolation is lifted and that could be a long time away.

The Chinese treat people differently than we all do.

Mike.


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## Gardenlover

Gary O' said:


> They do....and it all looks even worse (in filthy looking aquariums)
> I pretty much stuck with chips and beer when there


That would be an interesting story to hear about.


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## Rosemarie

Gardenlover said:


> That would be an interesting story to hear about.


I wonder why he went there in the first place?


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## Rosemarie

I don't eat meat anyway but, there is an unwritten rule when it comes to meat.....never eat an animal which eats other animals. It seems the Chinese don't follow this rule.


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## Wren

Mike said:


> The Chinese treat [people differently the we all do.
> Mike.


Seems they treat their digestive systems differently too !!


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## JustBonee

Wren said:


> Word has it that the main cause of the spread of the virus is because of a wet market, Huanan Seafood Market, which sells bizarre and exotic animals such as dogs, snakes, mice, bats, peacocks, koalas, and ostriches for the locals to consume.
> 
> View attachment 88945
> Nice .......



Bizarre stuff!  ..yuck


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## oldman

When I was in Taipei years ago, I was taken down a street called Snake Alley where you could buy the blood to drink from different types of snakes. You could also buy the blood from turtles and deer penis wine. Check it out on Wikipedia.

In Singapore, we ate monkey brains and deep fried chicken feet. Where do they come up with this stuff?

I remember one of the engineers in Hong Kong back in the 70’s telling me “We don’t waste anything. We not like Americans.” My reply was, “Yeah, OK, thank goodness we do throw some stuff away.”


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## Catlady

Not sure if this is true, but I read that HIV started because Africans like to eat monkey meat, they're carriers of the virus.

I used to eat Chinese food, but only liked Sweet & Sour Pork.  When I became a vegetarian in 1984 I stopped eating Chinese and since then have learned they are NOT very clean people in the kitchen.  And yes, they eat a lot of weird stuff.


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## Gary O'

Gardenlover said:


> That would be an interesting story to hear about


I do have a page or two on that....somewhere


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## RadishRose

bingo said:


> i've also heard they eat....human fetus....sick...culture


Where did you hear that?


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## drifter

Someone said the cause of this latest problem might be snakes.


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## bingo

RadishRose said:


> Where on earth did you hear that?


it's  so gross....it's  all online....I can't  stand to read about it


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## RadishRose

As far as the bats. NO one should be killing bats. They seem to be dying off on their own, which is a grave danger because they eat mosquitoes which carry fatal diseases and viruses!


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## Catlady

RadishRose said:


> As far as the bats. NO one should be killing bats. They seem to be dying off on their own, which is a grave danger because they eat mosquitoes which carry fatal diseases and viruses!


Bats are also carriers of rabies.  Forget who it was, some rock star that bit off the head of a live bat.  What a monster, too bad he didn't die of rabies.

EDIT = Found it

*Ozzy Osbourne* has marked the 37th anniversary of his most infamous onstage incident with a new piece of merchandise. On 20 January, 1982, *Osbourne* bit the head off a bat during a live show at Veterans Memorial Auditorium in Des Moines, Iowa.


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## win231

Catlady said:


> Bats are also carriers of rabies.  Forget who it was, some rock star that bit off the head of a live bat.  What a monster, too bad he didn't die of rabies.
> 
> EDIT = Found it
> 
> *Ozzy Osbourne* has marked the 37th anniversary of his most infamous onstage incident with a new piece of merchandise. On 20 January, 1982, *Osbourne* bit the head off a bat during a live show at Veterans Memorial Auditorium in Des Moines, Iowa.


Any warm-blooded mammal (except the opossum) can be a carrier of rabies.  Doesn't mean they all have it.


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## win231

oldman said:


> When I was in Taipei years ago, I was taken down a street called Snake Alley where you could buy the blood to drink from different types of snakes. You could also buy the blood from turtles and deer penis wine. Check it out on Wikipedia.
> 
> In Singapore, we ate monkey brains and deep fried chicken feet. Where do they come up with this stuff?
> 
> I remember one of the engineers in Hong Kong back in the 70’s telling me “We don’t waste anything. We not like Americans.” My reply was, “Yeah, OK, thank goodness we do throw some stuff away.”


Yes.  In Thailand, there are special stores where they keep Cobras & they sell cups of their blood.  These morons believe it will make couples who are having trouble conceiving more fertile because Cobras give birth to many young.  Maybe they should drink rabbits' blood instead.


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## AnnieA

Quarantining a city of 11 million and restricting the movement of 40+ million yesterday when the official announced death toll was only 26 seemed mighty extreme.  Not to mention basically cancelling Chinese New Year and the billions of yuan that businesses are losing related to that.      I don't at all trust the 'official' infection rate or mortality numbers coming out of China.


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## Catlady

win231 said:


> Any warm-blooded mammal (except the opossum) can be a carrier of rabies.  Doesn't mean they all have it.


Well, I wish that bat had rabies and Osbourne had gotten it, he was and still is a freak.  This is what I found, bats are one of the primary carriers of rabies.

Any warm-blooded mammal can carry or contract *rabies*, but the primary *carriers* in North America are raccoons, skunks, bats, foxes and coyotes.


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## RadishRose

AnnieA said:


> death toll was only 26


I understand, but how many people walking around were infected by those 26?  I'd hope to keep that death toll as low as possible.


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## RadishRose

Yes bats are known for being rabid but they stay away from us. Better to eat the mosquitoes.


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## AnnieA

RadishRose said:


> I understand, but how many people walking around were infected by those 26?  I'd hope to keep that death toll as low as possible.



Think it had to have been much higher than 26 for all the measures that are being taken.


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## oldman

China (Hong Kong) and Singapore have wet markets, which sell live animals and produce. Unlike dry markets that sell merchandise. The wet market that I visited while in Singapore sold some really weird things, which included, live and dead fowl, fish and a few small animals.


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## Catlady

AnnieA said:


> Think it had to have been much higher than 26 for all the measures that are being taken.


This virus is known to transmit from human to human.  One human can sicken hundreds of people in crowd situation.  And this just in time for celebrations with  millions of people crowded together.  It's a recipe for disaster.  The last I heard there were already two people in the US with the virus, and who knows how many people they were in contact with.


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## Catlady

RadishRose said:


> Yes bats are known for being rabid but they stay away from us. Better to eat the mosquitoes.


Oh, I have nothing against bats.   I just mentioned them because of Holly's post #4 showing a woman eating one (I hope it was already dead).


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## Catlady

UPDATE:  So far 41 people have died in China and the US is monitoring 60 people who might be infected.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/senator-says-cdc-confirm-third-164534737.html


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## RadishRose

*    Virus in China Is Part of a Growing Threat   *
*Coronaviruses, named for crown-like spikes on their surfaces, mutate rapidly*



                   Coronaviruses are a family of viruses that infect mostly pigs, cats and other animals.                                Photo:                     CDC         

                      By             
                  Betsy McKay

The virus implicated in an outbreak of pneumonia in central China is in a class of pathogens that are a growing player in global infectious-disease epidemics.

A man in Washington State was diagnosed this week with the new Wuhan coronavirus, the first case to be confirmed in the U.S. in an outbreak that has sickened hundreds of people in Asia, with a small number of deaths.

The outbreak is believed to have originated in the city of Wuhan in December, and has spread to other cities in China as well as other countries. A leading Chinese health official said this week that the virus has spread between humans.

Wuhan has all the ingredients for a coronavirus outbreak, Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota and other experts say: a big, densely populated city with live animal markets where people and possibly infected pigs, bats or other mammals mingle.

*Epidemic Potential*

*Coronaviruses are jumping increasingly from animals to humans, creating new threats*







NL63 (1100s)



SARS (2003)



229E (1800s)

MERS (2012)



OC43 (1800s)



Wuhan CoV (2020)



HKU1 (unknown)


Coronaviruses are a family of viruses that infect mostly pigs, cats and other animals. They can also jump from animals to humans, and from one human to another. Outbreaks in recent years have killed thousands of pigs in China.

Seven strains are known to infect humans, including the virus in Wuhan, causing illnesses in the respiratory tract. Four of those strains cause common colds. Two others, by contrast, rank among the deadliest of human infections: severe acute respiratory syndrome, known as SARS, and Middle East respiratory syndrome, or MERS.

Named for crown-like spikes on their surfaces, coronaviruses mutate rapidly, essentially making mistakes easily as they copy their genome to produce offspring. “They can recombine with incredibly high efficiency,” said        Ralph Baric,         a coronavirus expert and professor of epidemiology at the Gillings School of Global Public Health at the University of North Carolina. Two or three coronaviruses in the same cell can mix and produce new offspring viruses quickly, he said.


The reservoir, or natural home, of the coronavirus is believed to be in bats. But the virus jumps easily from one host to another, evolving as it moves. Investigators searching for the source of the SARS virus first found it in civet cats, an animal often eaten in the region of southern China where humans first were infected. Later, they traced it to bats found at the same markets where the civet cats were sold.

New, more severe human coronaviruses are emerging at an accelerating pace. Since 2002, three new types of coronavirus have emerged: SARS, MERS, and now this one in Wuhan.


China’s Mysterious New Virus Spreads Beyond the Epicenter
Chinese health authorities have reported hundreds of cases of a pneumonia-like illness that has spread to South Korea, Japan and Thailand. While different from the deadly SARS, the coronavirus is sparking memories of the outbreak in the early 2000s, as doctors try to understand the disease. Photo: Getty Images

SARS changed the game for virologists as the first coronavirus that was deadly to humans. Before that, it was known as a virus causing common colds. MERS is even deadlier. It also infects people on a continuing basis, unlike SARS, which disappeared after causing one epidemic that shook up global public health.

The new Wuhan virus appears milder, though some people have been severely ill and there have been a small number of deaths.

More new human coronaviruses are likely to emerge, said        Peter Daszak,         president of EcoHealth Alliance, a U.S. organization that identifies and researches emerging viruses around the world, including tracing SARS and MERS to bats. “Our ecology is changing,” he said. “We’re exposed more to animal pathogens.”

Coronaviruses are “well poised to take advantage of a more densely populated planet with integrated farm methods that bring large numbers of animals together to feed populations,” said Dr. Baric.

*Populations are aging, too, and coronavirus causes more severe illnesses in people over age 65.*

Researchers have traced about 100 or more SARS-related coronaviruses circulating in bats in China, Dr. Daszak said. Some can infect humans, lab experiments show, he said. The Wuhan strain is similar to bat coronaviruses that led to SARS, scientists say.

One question is whether the Wuhan strain will recede, like SARS, or continue to cause outbreaks, like MERS, Dr. Osterholm said.


The Wuhan outbreak demonstrates how urgent the need is for drugs to treat emerging coronaviruses, said        Timothy Sheahan,         an assistant professor of epidemiology at UNC’s Gillings School of Global Public Health. In a paper published Friday in Nature Communications, he and colleagues showed that an antiviral drug by              Gilead Sciences Inc.,        remdesivir, lessened lung disease from MERS in mice. He hopes to study the effects of the drug on the new Wuhan strain. The same drug has been given to people with Ebola, and reduced the severity of their disease, though not as much as two other therapies.

“We have a new coronavirus emerging every 10 years,” Dr. Sheahan said. “As we come into contact with animals that we didn’t come into contact with before, I think we’re going to see this more and more often.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/virus-in-china-is-part-of-a-growing-threat-11578692839


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## win231

drifter said:


> Someone said the cause of this latest problem might be snakes.


Well, then I should have caught the virus many times.  I've had pet snakes for the first 25 years of my life & constantly handled them.
I think what happens is, when researchers (& other professionals who have lots of letters after their name) can't figure out where something came from, they just pick something many people don't like & blame it - snakes, rats, mice, etc.  They want to sound intelligent, so they won't admit they just don't know or they don't have a solution.  A scapegoat like that works.

You may recall the "Hantavirus" several years ago.  It was blamed on mouse droppings.


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## AnnieA

​


hollydolly said:


> they are saying that the virus could be coming from people who eat affected  Bats as a delicacy or from snakes... also bats, and bat droppings are used in a lot of Chinese ''medicine''
> 
> There's a video which has gone viral in the last 24 hours and in all the media  showing a woman eating a bat in an upmarket restaurant in Wuhan the city where the virus is said to have originated...



That is so unbelievably disgusting.   And it looks like this new one likely did originate from bats according to genetic analysis of the virus.  Researchers can't say that with 100% certainty, but the genetic profile of this new human strain has a high percentage match to bat strains. 

Unfortunately, genetic analysis can’t identify what animal species the coronavirus jumped from into humans. But an analysis by a team from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, posted to the preprint server bioRxiv, determined that the genome of this coronavirus (the seventh known to infect humans) is 96% identical to that of a bat coronavirus, suggesting that species is the original source. (Writing in the New England Journal of Medicine on Friday, another team of scientists in China reported that the new coronavirus is 86.9% identical to the bat SARS-like coronavirus.)​
https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/24...navirus-genome-tracing-origins-and-mutations/


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## Mike

Sky News update.






Mike.


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## Don M.

I spent most of 1967 in Thailand, and "sampled" some of the local cuisine over there.  Looking back, at what I probably ate, and the conditions of preparation, it's a wonder that I didn't come down with some strange bug.  If I were to recount some of the food items that the locals consumed, which I was Not brave enough to try, It would probably cause some people to vomit, just reading about it.


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## Butterfly

win231 said:


> Well, then I should have caught the virus many times.  I've had pet snakes for the first 25 years of my life & constantly handled them.
> I think what happens is, when researchers (& other professionals who have lots of letters after their name) can't figure out where something came from, they just pick something many people don't like & blame it - snakes, rats, mice, etc.  They want to sound intelligent, so they won't admit they just don't know or they don't have a solution.  A scapegoat like that works.
> 
> You may recall the "Hantavirus" several years ago.  It was blamed on mouse droppings.



My state is one of the ones that have the hantavirus.  It IS transmitted through contaminated mouse droppings and urine, particularly from a specific breed of mouse.  Every year we have a few cases.


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## Robert59

*Virus-hit Wuhan has two laboratories linked to Chinese bio-warfare program*
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/24/virus-hit-wuhan-has-two-laboratories-linked-chines/


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## win231

Butterfly said:


> My state is one of the ones that have the hantavirus.  It IS transmitted through contaminated mouse droppings and urine, particularly from a specific breed of mouse.  Every year we have a few cases.


I realize that's what the "experts" say, but I'm wondering how they proved that.  I don't understand how droppings would be contaminated so they make people sick?  Every animal & every person produces dropping & urine.  Wouldn't people who pick up after their pets get sick?


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## Lakeland living

The real poop on the  Coronavirus  and how many we have and the patents for older types
Longer read with vidio
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...rain/507-afb0c90d-0d83-41dc-ba88-aaba1b6b9a5d


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## win231

And all this time, I thought the Corona Virus had something to do with beer.


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## Butterfly

win231 said:


> I realize that's what the "experts" say, but I'm wondering how they proved that.  I don't understand how droppings would be contaminated so they make people sick?  Every animal & every person produces dropping & urine.  Wouldn't people who pick up after their pets get sick?



The deer mouse is a vector for the hantavirus and the mouse sheds the virus in its droppings and urine.  It's not droppings and urine that cause the virus, but rather that the droppings of the particular mouse that carries the virus contain the virus and spread the disease.

I dunno why it's just that mouse and not all mice, or why the virus doesn't spread to other animals, but it doesn't.  Anyway, the deer mouse isn't a common house mouse, and they tend to live in forests and brushlands.


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## Liberty

Market was down this morning 420 points.


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## StarSong

Liberty said:


> Market was down this morning 420 points.


I think that's more closely related to what's going in in DC than the corona virus.


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## Catlady

Liberty said:


> Market was down this morning 420 points.


I notice that when the market goes down, Bitcoin usually goes up, and vice-versa.  It acts sort of like gold.


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## Liberty

StarSong said:


> I think that's more closely related to what's going in in DC than the corona virus.


That's not what they said.  The China issue bears watching.


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## Liberty

Catlady said:


> I notice that when the market goes down, Bitcoin usually goes up, and vice-versa.  It acts sort of like gold.


Probably like "bonds"...works inversely to the bull.


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## StarSong

Liberty said:


> That's not what they said.  The China issue bears watching.


Thanks for the info.  I didn't know this.


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## Catlady

Seems even worse than it appears.  China is known to under-report health status numbers and the virus has an incubation period of 1-14 days and it's contagious even then.  With the immense holiday migrations, it sounds like the worst is yet to come.  BTW, the two US cases are in Wash state and Illinois, travelers who returned from China.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/china-extend-holiday-curb-fast-173133134.html
Anxiety is growing amid evidence that the disease has an incubation period of as long as two weeks before those infected start to show signs of the illness. That raises the *possibility that people who are carrying the virus but don’t show symptoms could infect others. 

The U.S. has five cases, with three confirmed within 24 hours: two in Southern California and one in Maricopa County, Arizona. All the patients had recently been in Wuhan and are hospitalized. Their close contacts are being monitored for signs that they may be developing the disease, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Sunday. Washington state and Chicago earlier had confirmed infections. *


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## AnnieA

Liberty said:


> That's not what they said.  The China issue bears watching.



Yep.  Just about every market headline this morning mentions the virus.  CNBC is one of the exceptions trying to make it political and their headline blames Bernie Sanders.


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## Robert59

This reminds me of the movie Omega Man 
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067525/


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## Liberty

AnnieA said:


> Yep.  Just about every market headline this morning mentions the virus.  CNBC is one of the exceptions trying to make it political and their headline blames Bernie Sanders.



Get out of here...headline blames Bernie Sanders?


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## Liberty

Robert59 said:


> This reminds me of the movie Omega Man
> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067525/


Here you go... invest in "Soylent:

https://soylent.com
Stock:
https://equityzen.com/company/soylent/


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## Pinky

Two cases of Coronavirus in my city. Why do people insist on traveling while ill?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/secon...osed-in-canada-first-case-confirmed-1.4784799


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## Liberty

Pinky said:


> Two cases of Coronavirus in my city. Why do people insist on traveling while ill?
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/secon...osed-in-canada-first-case-confirmed-1.4784799


Well, yeah, some folks are in one place with a return ticket and just want to get back home...but with that said, in this case the gestation period is 2 days to 2 weeks and they can be contagious during this time.  Conceivably might not even have any measurable symptoms.


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## AnnieA

Pinky said:


> Two cases of Coronavirus in my city. Why do people insist on traveling while ill?
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/secon...osed-in-canada-first-case-confirmed-1.4784799




They may not have known.   A really bad feature of this bug is that even after the incubation period, the symptoms are so mild at first that people don't realize they have it.    One report I read said that in the first few days, there's no fever.


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## Rasputin

Now they're saying it can be up to two weeks before symptoms start. People can be infected for far too long before ever knowing they have this virus. This really bears watching.


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## Gardenlover

Getting nastier by the day, or at least until the grants to find a cure are fully funded.


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## Warrigal

Five verified cases in Australia now. We have a large number of overseas students from China and the academic year is about to start. Exclusion from classes so far is voluntary if a student is feeling unwell. This is a big worry by the authorities are not panicking just yet. There are also upwards of 100 Australian children in the affected province right now and we have no plans to evacuate them. Meanwhile planes from other parts of China keep arriving at the rate of 3 per day.

There is a rush in the  medical labs to produce a vaccine ASAP.


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## win231

Warrigal said:


> Five verified cases in Australia now. We have a large number of overseas students from China and the academic year is about to start. Exclusion from classes so far is voluntary if a student is feeling unwell. This is a big worry by the authorities are not panicking just yet. There are also upwards of 100 Australian children in the affected province right now and we have no plans to evacuate them. Meanwhile planes from other parts of China keep arriving at the rate of 3 per day.
> 
> There is a rush in the  medical labs to produce a vaccine ASAP.


Just as I predicted.  And I'm sure the vaccine will be as useful as the flu vaccine.


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## Liberty

Think "lung issues"...pneumonia ...that's the issue.  People can have it and think its the cold, the flu and then as it hangs on and gets worse, go to the hospital and its treated as pneumonia.  Why?  Because it does produce pneumonia. 

This can take a much longer time.  There are undoubtedly more cases than reported at this time due to the fact the symptoms are so weak for possibly weeks as it presents as pneumonia.


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## Gardenlover

Maybe Mother Nature (or fill in the blank) has had enough and it's time for a reboot.


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## Liberty

Gardenlover said:


> Maybe Mother Nature (or fill in the blank) has had enough and it's time for a reboot.


https://www.theburningplatform.com/...eal-coronavirus-from-canada-and-weaponize-it/


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## AnnieA

This is not good news.  So far, cases outside China have been patients who had just returned from affected areas in China.  This new German case is the first confirmed person-to-person case outside China.   The German guy contracted it from a Shanghai based coworker who was in Germany January 19-23 and had no symptoms while she was in Germany. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-of-transmission-outside-china-idUSKBN1ZR057
From the article: 

Germany has declared its first confirmed case of the coronavirus after a 33-year-old man contracted it from a colleague visiting his workplace from Shanghai, in one of the first cases of person-to-person transmission outside China. ...​​...she had arrived in Germany on Jan. 19, appearing not to have any symptoms, but began to feel ill on her flight home on Jan. 23. She sought medical treatment after landing and tested positive for coronavirus.​​When that information was relayed back to the German company, a male employee said he felt like he had flu over the weekend and was on Monday advised to get medical treatment.​


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## Liberty

AnnieA said:


> This is not good news.  So far, cases outside China have been patients who had just returned from affected areas in China.  This new German case is the first confirmed person-to-person case outside China.   The German guy contracted it from a Shanghai based coworker who was in Germany January 19-23 and had no symptoms while she was in Germany.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-of-transmission-outside-china-idUSKBN1ZR057
> From the article:
> 
> Germany has declared its first confirmed case of the coronavirus after a 33-year-old man contracted it from a colleague visiting his workplace from Shanghai, in one of the first cases of person-to-person transmission outside China. ...​​...she had arrived in Germany on Jan. 19, appearing not to have any symptoms, but began to feel ill on her flight home on Jan. 23. She sought medical treatment after landing and tested positive for coronavirus.​​When that information was relayed back to the German company, a male employee said he felt like he had flu over the weekend and was on Monday advised to get medical treatment.​


Japan reported one too...a bus driver that had not gone to China:

https://news.yahoo.com/person-japan-not-visited-wuhan-103535924.html


----------



## Liberty

Just got a news alert...they are going to start screening people for the virus at H Town (Houston-IAH) airport.


----------



## Grampa Don

Here is a link to a BBC article on false rumors about the the new virus.  There is a lot of BS out there.

Don


----------



## Pinky

Grampa Don said:


> Here is a link to a BBC article on false rumors about the the new virus.  There is a lot of BS out there.
> 
> Don



Where's the link? Oh, I see it ... sorry 'bout that, Don.


----------



## AnnieA

Three more cases in Germany.  All work for the same company as the guy in post 72.


----------



## Gardenlover

Grampa Don said:


> Here is a link to a BBC article on false rumors about the the new virus.  There is a lot of BS out there.
> 
> Don


Thanks for the information Grampa Don, this needs to be approached with a steady hand (mind).


----------



## Gary O'

win231 said:


> And all this time, I thought the Corona Virus had something to do with beer.



You might be onto something, win


----------



## AnnieA

Even people who ought to know better are sensationalizing. 

This guy graduated from The Johns Hopkins University with Honors in Public Health and _Phi Beta Kappa_. He then completed his dual doctorate in epidemiology and doctorate in nutrition, as the youngest graduate to earn double-PhDs at age 23 from Harvard.   

When he posted the drama tweet, the official Ro had been downgraded to 2.5.


----------



## treeguy64

I see this new Corona virus stuff as typical alarmist journalism to draw in viewers/listeners. From what I've read, the fatality rate is around 2%. If the world lost one hundred sixty million people, I doubt we'd hardly notice, as one hundred and thirty million are born, yearly. Yes, there's the normal death rate to factor in, I know. Even so, I suspect this virus news will fade into the background as the next big news thing makes the scene. Meanwhile, I'm wearing my mask, gloves and goggles when I need an item at my local Asian market, no joke. On my last visit, I wasn't alone, in that. 

FYI: Flu kills around a half million people a year, worldwide. US fatality rates are hard to pin down. Different articles have different stats. The clearest one I found showed a fatality rate of around 10%, but that was only for those who were hospitalized with the flu. 

Be careful, but don't panic. Wash your hands with alcohol and then soap and water, avoid large crowds, don't touch your face, eat a balanced diet, exercise, get seven hours of sleep per twenty four hours, cancel that Chinese vacation.


----------



## pleinmont

My youngest sister and husband are suppose to be going on a tour of China in April, I hope it will be cancelled.


----------



## Gardenlover

*Coronavirus: 6,000 tourists in lockdown on Italian cruise ship*
Ship held in quarantine over suspected case of the deadly virus, after doctors tend to woman from Macau running a fever.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...down-italian-cruise-ship-200130120822687.html

Never been a "big" fan of cruise ships. This is one reason why.


----------



## toffee

strange how the vast majority of chinese are intelligent -
few years ago they had a very dangerous  flu virus broke out -officials seem to think it came from thee live food market ?
i cannot fathom out why it still goes on ' you name it they sell it / 

there is no health and safety out there ' animals that been caged and hens 'can carry no end of virus's
many a food store take-away have been shut down due to infestation of vermin in the UK.

but dont think will get the truth from over there what ever caused it - and who is to say it never came from their
labs .......


----------



## AnnieA

treeguy64 said:


> ... From what I've read, the fatality rate is around 2%.



Based on numbers coming from a communist country.  I'm reserving judgement.  Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

I don't believe videos showing a foggy day claiming it's due to Wuhan's crematoriums working 24/7 because residents report there's lots of fog this time of year.    But I also do not believe a Communist government in a culture that "saves face" even when they have freedom is reporting accurately.


----------



## win231

Gardenlover said:


> *Coronavirus: 6,000 tourists in lockdown on Italian cruise ship*
> Ship held in quarantine over suspected case of the deadly virus, after doctors tend to woman from Macau running a fever.
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...down-italian-cruise-ship-200130120822687.html
> 
> Never been a "big" fan of cruise ships. This is one reason why.


Me, neither.  You can't exactly leave the ship....not with the water so cold.
And the same goes for a plane.  If you try to leave, it might get too cold & windy.


----------



## Catlady

UPDATE;
The 1000 bed Corona virus China hospital opened today

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-just-completed-emergency-hospital-101611969.html


----------



## AnnieA

Stats site with frequent updates below.  Keep in mind that most epidemiologists think China is very under-reported because of Communism, culture and also that it's gotten to the point that they're too overwhelmed caring for the sick to test properly. They are only including deaths in their statistics if there was a positive test.  

You'll also notice no African countries reporting cases; only two nations on the continent currently have the capacity to test.  The ability to test is also limited in India, most of the Middle East and some Central and South American countries.

*https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/*


----------



## retiredtraveler

Gardenlover said:


> ".....Lot of nasty stuff in the news lately. Is it simply sensationalism or we over spending on Mother Nature's credit card?...".


400+ dead from virus. 10,000 dead this season, just in U.S. from flu. Almost 20,000 dead from last flu season. No need to ask the question.


----------



## Catlady

Young Chinese doctor who warned about Coronavirus, was not only almost arrested for the warning but now has contracted the virus himself.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/chi...oronavirus-now-has-the-illness-203152013.html


----------



## AnnieA

retiredtraveler said:


> 400+ dead from virus. 10,000 dead this season, just in U.S. from flu. Almost 20,000 dead from last flu season. No need to ask the question.




I imagine the CDC is in a bit of a quandary trying to figure out how to report deaths from 2019nCoV if we start losing people here.   The CDC inflates flu death statistics by lumping deaths due to pneumonia in with flu (P&I if you're looking at stats on their website) even though pneumonia is caused by a lot of other things such as chemical inhalation, emphysema, aspiration, stomach acid producing drugs, other viruses besides the flu, various bacteria and on and on...

Since 2019nCoV causes death by pneumonia, they're going to have create an entirely new reporting system for those.  Or at least they should, but since what they're reporting now is so off base, 2019nCoV deaths may be misreported in the P&I "flu deaths" catch-all junk pile.

​From the British Medical Journal:  Are US flu deaths more PR than science?​​US data on influenza deaths are a mess. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) acknowledges a difference between flu death and flu associated death yet uses the terms interchangeably. Additionally, there are significant statistical incompatibilities between official estimates and national vital statistics data. Compounding these problems is a marketing of fear—a CDC communications strategy in which medical experts “predict dire outcomes” during flu seasons.​​The CDC website states what has become commonly accepted and widely reported in the lay and scientific press: annually “about 36 000 [Americans] die from flu”  and “influenza/pneumonia” is the seventh leading cause of death in the United States (www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm). But why are flu and pneumonia bundled together? Is the relationship so strong or unique to warrant characterising them as a single cause of death?​


----------



## retiredtraveler

AnnieA said:


> ".....I imagine the CDC is in a bit of a quandary trying to figure out how to report deaths from 2019nCoV if we start losing people here.   The CDC inflates flu death statistics by lumping deaths due to pneumonia in with flu (P&I if you're looking at stats on their website) even though pneumonia is caused by a lot of other things such as chemical inhalation, emphysema, aspiration, stomach acid producing drugs, other viruses besides the flu, various bacteria and on and on.... But why are flu and pneumonia bundled together? Is the relationship so strong or unique to warrant characterising them as a single cause of death?...".


Thanks for posting this. I had no idea about flu reporting. It would still appear that even if flu 'deaths' are inflated by at least a factor of 10, I would still be far more concerned about getting flu, and/or pneumonia, than the new virus. I would assume you know your history and know about the flu pandemic during WWI.


----------



## AnnieA

retiredtraveler said:


> Thanks for posting this. I had no idea about flu reporting. It would still appear that even if flu 'deaths' are inflated by at least a factor of 10, I would still be far more concerned about getting flu, and/or pneumonia, than the new virus. I would assume you know your history and know about the flu pandemic during WWI.




It's too early to know how concerned we need to be since the ground zero for 2019nCoV was either tail-end of Nov or early Dec 2019.  It's sickened/killed a lot of people in just two months.  And there are numerous case reports of multi-organ failure coming out of China that's very rare with our usual seasonal respiratory bugs.  We'll know more about how concerned we should be by the end of this month.    Especially once we start getting reliable numbers on contagion stats, testing accuracy, mortality rates from first world countries.

It's a badass bug.  No nation--esp China--wrecks their economy over a virus unless they're super scared.  Our US evacuees are under federal mandatory quarantine which last happened 50 years ago.   Four US military bases are preparing a total of 1000 quarantine beds ...dunno when that last happened.    Australia and Spain have put their evacuees under quarantine on islands!!!

Like I said, it's so new that it'll be another month or so before we know how bad it's going to get in nations with strong healthcare infrastructure and accurate reporting.


----------



## Don M.

And now...there is a cruise ship full of passengers stuck in a Japanese harbor...and the passengers are being told to stay in their cabins for the next two weeks.  That would almost be like being stuck in a prison cell.  It appears that the best way to avoid this illness is to avoid being around crowds of people....and a cruise ship would seem, to me, to be the worst environment for the spread of a contagious disease.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-ship-outbreak-084606816.html


----------



## retiredtraveler

Don M. said:


> And now...there is a cruise ship full of passengers stuck in a Japanese harbor...and the passengers are being told to stay in their cabins for the next two weeks.  That would almost be like being stuck in a prison cell.



Hmmmm. I'm not too sure I would compare being stuck on a cruise ship to a prison cell.


----------



## retiredtraveler

AnnieA said:


> _"..... We'll know more about how concerned we should be by the end of this month.    Especially once we start getting reliable numbers on contagion stats, testing accuracy, mortality rates from first world countries....."_.


I assume (?) you believe that we will_ not_ be getting accurate numbers from China.


----------



## AnnieA

AnnieA said:


> Stats site with frequent updates below.  Keep in mind that most epidemiologists think China is very under-reported because of Communism, culture and also that it's gotten to the point that they're too overwhelmed caring for the sick to test properly. They are only including deaths in their statistics if there was a positive test.
> 
> You'll also notice no African countries reporting cases; only two nations on the continent currently have the capacity to test.  The ability to test is also limited in India, most of the Middle East and some Central and South American countries.
> 
> *https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/*






retiredtraveler said:


> I assume (?) you believe that we will_ not_ be getting accurate numbers from China.



Reposting from above.  Even if they were being honest at the first which many epidemiologists doubt, they've lost control of stats now.  They're too overwhelmed caring for the ill to keep up with testing, and they're only counting positive tests in their stats.


----------



## AnnieA

Chart of the only people CDC is testing for currently.  Note the second column.  No tertiary contacts.  And what if someone came in contact with a person who tested positive and doesn't know it?  There are false negatives in the early days, and there are case studies showing communicability before symptoms develop.   I've been critical of China's numbers in above posts, but after learning this, who the heck knows how many people actually have it in the US with these limitations.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201.../coronavirus/2019-ncov/clinical-criteria.html


----------



## Don M.

retiredtraveler said:


> Hmmmm. I'm not too sure I would compare being stuck on a cruise ship to a prison cell.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/floating-prison-diamond-princess-cruise-110135315.html


----------



## StarSong

Don M. said:


> https://www.yahoo.com/news/floating-prison-diamond-princess-cruise-110135315.html


Presumably the ship is running movies 24/7 on cabin TVs, are providing internet so people can download reading material, and are doing the best they can with meals.  

It would obviously be more unpleasant for those without balconies or windows. Inside cabins would be the pits.


----------



## win231

retiredtraveler said:


> Hmmmm. I'm not too sure I would compare being stuck on a cruise ship to a prison cell.


Being stuck on a cruise ship where you're free to go anywhere on the ship you please is very different than being confined to your cabin.


----------



## Rosemarie

When you consider the amount of movement of people around the globe, it's a wonder that this doesn't happen more often. Sitting in a confined space like an aeroplane for hours with any bugs being breathed in by all the passengers, is a guaranteed way to spread diseases.


----------



## win231

Rosemarie said:


> When you consider the amount of movement of people around the globe, it's a wonder that this doesn't happen more often. Sitting in a confined space like an aeroplane for hours with any bugs being breathed in by all the passengers, is a guaranteed way to spread diseases.


That's not the only factor.  To save fuel costs, planes keep the air conditioner set on "Recirculate."  That means you're breathing in what all the other passengers exhale.  Just like cars, the air conditioning compressor runs on power from the engine.  Fresh air would have to be heated or cooled, which uses extra fuel.


----------



## Gardenlover

Looks like I'm going to have to buy my own plane and cruise ship.


----------



## retiredtraveler

Don M. said:


> https://www.yahoo.com/news/floating-prison-diamond-princess-cruise-110135315.html


I stand corrected!!!! Do cruise ships have TV's in room? We'll never take a cruise so don't know anthing about them.


----------



## win231

retiredtraveler said:


> I stand corrected!!!! Do cruise ships have TV's in room? We'll never take a cruise so don't know anthing about them.


Yes, they do have TV's, but all they show on the screen is ships sinking.


----------



## Gardenlover

win231 said:


> Yes, they do have TV's, but all they show on the screen is ships sinking.


And I thought I was heartless.


----------



## Kaila

Gardenlover said:


> Looks like I'm going to have to buy my own plane and cruise ship.



I admit I haven't followed this entire thread, but that doesn't seem like a good investment, at this time,
Gardenlover.



Though you probably could purchase a cruise ship for a very low price, atm.


----------



## exwisehe

I saw a site just a moment ago that said "China’s total confirmed cases top 28,000, more than 3,800 of them critical."

Also, 10 more people on the cruise ship tested positive.

Bad!


----------



## Gardenlover

exwisehe said:


> I saw a site just a moment ago that said "China’s total confirmed cases top 28,000, more than 3,800 of them critical."
> 
> Also, 10 more people on the cruise ship tested positive.
> 
> Bad!


Wow, that's over 13 percent. Can you share the source?


----------



## exwisehe

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...4d0532-4869-11ea-8124-0ca81effcdfb_story.html


----------



## AnnieA

@oldman  What kind of plane is this?   Just came into the US with evacuees ...not sure which military base this group was headed to.  But the staff have upped the ante re personal protective equipment.  I've only seen hazmat suits as max PPE until today.   The respirators are not encouraging. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1225404938341113856


----------



## retiredtraveler

AnnieA said:


> @oldman  ".....but the staff have upped the ante re personal protective equipment.  I've only seen hazmat suits as max PPE until today.   The respirators are not encouraging.


I love it. I've seen several 'pandemic films' over the years, but this is real life. I'm enjoying this in my twisted way. And, does everyone believe that the doc who was first taken into custody after issuing online warnings of this months ago actually died from the virus? I'm thinking he was spirited away someplace.....


----------



## AnnieA

retiredtraveler said:


> I love it. I've seen several 'pandemic films' over the years, but this is real life. I'm enjoying this in my twisted way. And, does everyone believe that the doc who was first taken into custody after issuing online warnings of this months ago actually died from the virus? I'm thinking he was spirited away someplace.....



Omgosh, you are twisted!  I would be out of my mind anxious if I were an evacuee on that flight!   Those are real people being escorted home by military guys wearing personal respirators who are about to be confined to a military base for two weeks.

As for the doctor, he posted some on WeChat after he was released from questioning.   I don't think Wuhan can afford to lock up doctors.


----------



## C'est Moi

StarSong said:


> Presumably the ship is running movies 24/7 on cabin TVs, are providing internet so people can download reading material, and are doing the best they can with meals.
> 
> It would obviously be more unpleasant for those without balconies or windows. Inside cabins would be the pits.


They are _posting on social media_ that they are bored. Boo-effing-hoo.  All the comforts and still whining.


----------



## Warrigal

There's a cruise ship docked in Japan where the whole crew and passengers are under quarantine by the health department. As passengers as confirmed as infected they are being taken off the ship very carefully and taken to hospitals where they can be cared for safely. Confirmed cases so far number 61, five of them are Australians. Australians love cruising on this particular line.

All passengers are confined to their state rooms but those with inside cabins are escorted out on deck for 1.5 hours per day to allow them some fresh air. Those that do not become sick within the 14 days of quarantine will presumably be cleared to travel home but I would guess the ship will need to be given stringent cleaning before being allowed to leave port.


----------



## Nautilus

We're scheduled for an 8-day northern Japan cruise on the same ship, the Diamond Princess, this coming July.  We'll be watching closely to see if this situation gets better or worse. If we were confined to a 180 sq' cabin for 14 days, we would need months in a psychiatric facility and possibly a divorce lawyer.  Maybe I sould call all 9s now...just in case.


----------



## fmdog44

The only advice for us is "wash your hands." There are 7,000 passengers stuck on a cruise ship for at least 14 days. Three major airlines will not fly to China. Trade/commerce is stalled so ships with goods are not moving i.e., job losses, empty shelves, empty car lots, etc.  More bad news than good as to how it can be spread. No end in sight so far and no predictions. I got on line today to look up surgical masks.


----------



## fmdog44

bingo said:


> i've  also heard they eat....human fetus....sick...culture


Yes they do and Martians too!!!!!


----------



## Warrigal

fmdog44 said:


> The only advice for us is "wash your hands." There are 7,000 passengers stuck on a cruise ship for at least 14 days. Three major airlines will not fly to China. Trade/commerce is stalled so ships with goods are not moving i.e., job losses, empty shelves, empty car lots, etc.  More bad news than good as to how it can be spread. No end in sight so far and no predictions. I got on line today to look up surgical masks.


I've got news for you about the masks. Most of them are made in China and right now, with planes not leaving China, there is a bit of a world wide shortage of surgical masks. They might soon become rationed but I wouldn't worry too much. They are next to useless against  viruses. They work better for bacteria.


----------



## win231

What if the people making the masks have Corona Virus?


----------



## Warrigal

Viruses cannot live outside the body for very long. When they dry out they die. Bacteria and fungi can survive as spores.


----------



## win231

Nautilus said:


> We're scheduled for an 8-day northern Japan cruise on the same ship, the Diamond Princess, this coming July.  We'll be watching closely to see if this situation gets better or worse. If we were confined to a 180 sq' cabin for 14 days, we would need months in a psychiatric facility and possibly a divorce lawyer.  Maybe I sould call all 9s now...just in case.


I'd cancel it.  I was also booked for a cruise on the Diamond Princess.  I just saw an ad for it.  It has been re-named "The Corona Cruise."


----------



## gennie

If the latest I read is proven true = that it is possibly/probably spread by fecal matter in bathroom air - it will damage the finances of any place in the world where the public might gather long enough to need to visit the toilet unless the visit is absolute essential.   If it is in the air, even going into bathroom to wash your hands could be dangerous.


----------



## exwisehe

Just for perspective's sake, remember that so far, 10,000 people have died and 180,000 people have been hospitalized during the 2019-2020 flu season, according to preliminary estimates from the CDC.  

But good news is that we're nearing the end of the worst of the winter, and viruses of this type usually begin to die off in warmer weather.

I had the flu myself about 7 years ago.  A bad cold wouldn't go away, and one night my temperature shot up to 104, and I told my wife she'd better take me to the emergency room.  I was beginning to see things, such as a army of soldiers in a cloud of dust with spears drawn coming at me.  She said, "get your clothes on and I'm pulling the car out front from the garage."  (she didn't want me to even walk down the steps)

Fortunately I survived after a couple of bad nights.  I've also had pneumonia 3 times.   So we have to be careful of germs for sure.


----------



## hollydolly

Good Lord this is a shocking report....




https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ing-suspected-coronavirus-carriers-homes.html


----------



## Gardenlover

hollydolly said:


> Good Lord this is a shocking report....
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ing-suspected-coronavirus-carriers-homes.html


Makes me believe it is much worse than what is being reported.


----------



## Rosemarie

It certainly seems to be very virulent.


----------



## Rosemarie

Warrigal said:


> Viruses cannot live outside the body for very long. When they dry out they die. Bacteria and fungi can survive as spores.


If only this were true. Viruses survive on surfaces for long periods. This is why it's so vital to wash your hands often, especially after touching door handles,etc.


----------



## treeguy64

Warrigal said:


> Viruses cannot live outside the body for very long. When they dry out they die. Bacteria and fungi can survive as spores.


Your information is incorrect, as posted, regarding viruses. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sc...how-long-can-a-virus-live-outside-a-body/amp/


----------



## Warrigal

Thanks for the correction.


----------



## StarSong

Gardenlover said:


> Makes me believe it is much worse than what is being reported.


I agree.


----------



## AnnieA

Gardenlover said:


> Makes me believe it is much worse than what is being reported.



Statistics only include those who tested positive.   People who died at home, hospital patients who died where there was no time to test or no testing kits available aren't included.  It's much worse than published numbers.


----------



## retiredtraveler

AnnieA said:


> Statistics only include those who tested positive........It's much worse than published numbers....".


IMHO, most probable.....


----------



## retiredtraveler

hollydolly said:


> Good Lord this is a shocking report....


Looks like half a dozen 'contagion' films I've seen in the past. I'm not a fan of China, but I bet we would see scenes like that here, in the states, if we had a pandemic. Civil Rights would be suspended.


----------



## RadishRose




----------



## StarSong

Many epidemiologists fear this is going to explode when it hits Africa - and is almost certainly already there.  No cases have been reported there yet is because they don't have the testing kits or labs to verify the illness.


----------



## retiredtraveler

I just read that 5 Brits have the virus which they caught at a French ski resort.
*Coronavirus: Five Britons in French ski chalet catch virus - BBC*


----------



## StarSong

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-02-08/africa-coronavirus


----------



## RadishRose

StarSong said:


> https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-02-08/africa-coronavirus


This very scary especially when I saw this from the article:

_Ethiopian Airlines, however, faces questions by some in Africa about *why it continues to operate more than 30 China flights a week* while other African airlines have suspended theirs. _


----------



## AnnieA

RadishRose said:


> This very scary especially when I saw this from the article:
> 
> _Ethiopian Airlines, however, faces questions by some in Africa about *why it continues to operate more than 30 China flights a week* while other African airlines have suspended theirs. _





Forbes article about Chinese investment in Africa.   This is probably the reason for the cont flights.    

https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadesh...china-is-really-up-to-in-africa/#2c2974bb5930

From the article

*China is now Africa’s biggest trade partner, with Sino-African trade topping $200 billion per year. According to McKinsey, over 10,000 Chinese-owned firms are currently operating throughout the African continent, and the value of Chinese business there since 2005 amounts to more than $2 trillion, 

China needs what Africa has for long-term economic and political stability. Over a third of China's oil comes from Africa *


----------



## StarSong

Sorry to say that I have no faith whatsoever in official Chinese coronavirus statistics.  My guess is that they're drastically under reporting, partly because they don't have full information and even more because it's in their economic interest to downplay the numbers and danger.


----------



## AnnieA

StarSong said:


> Sorry to say that I have no faith whatsoever in official Chinese coronavirus statistics.  My guess is that they're drastically under reporting, partly because they don't have full information and even more because it's in their economic interest to downplay the numbers and danger.



I don't have faith in ours either.  Despite spread in Europe from travelers that haven't been in China, our CDC is only testing people with symptoms who have been to China or have been exposed to someone with a positive test.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/clinical-criteria.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/clinical-criteria.html


----------



## StarSong

AnnieA said:


> I don't have faith in ours either.  Despite spread in Europe from travelers who haven't been in China, our CDC is only testing people with symptoms who have been to China or have been exposed to someone with a positive test.
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/clinical-criteria.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/clinical-criteria.html


At some point the CDC will have to adjust their criteria.  

Right now it's easonable to not test every US flu-like set of symptoms for coronavirus. We're still at the stage where when a US doctor hears hoof beats from a patient with zero Chinese travel connections, 99.99% of the time it's going to be horses, not zebras.


----------



## AnnieA

StarSong said:


> At some point the CDC will have to adjust their criteria.
> 
> Right now it's easonable to not test every US flu-like set of symptoms for coronavirus. We're still at the stage where when a US doctor hears hoof beats from a patient with zero Chinese travel connections, 99.99% of the time it's going to be horses, not zebras.



I realize there are lots of other winter bugs that have similar symptoms ....however! we could expand the criteria to people who have traveled to other areas of the world with significant numbers of cases.  Those should've been added into CDC testing criteria as cases occured globally.  So far, it's China only ...not Hong Kong, Thailand, Singapore, etc.


----------



## StarSong

AnnieA said:


> I realize there are lots of other winter bugs that have similar symptoms ....however! we could expand the criteria to people who have traveled to other areas of the world with significant numbers of cases.  Those should've be added into CDC testing criteria as cases occur globally.  So far, it's China only ...not Hong Kong, Thailand, Singapore, etc.


A cogent argument.  Agreed.


----------



## RadishRose

deleted


----------



## C'est Moi

A KFC worker in China has been infected with the deadly coronavirus, according to a report from China News.

The patient reportedly worked at the front counter of a KFC in an eatery in the Xiaozhai Intime shopping center, in the Xian, Shaanxi province, where the worker's main job involved food preparation.


----------



## retiredtraveler

Latest 'speculation' on the virus. 

It's believed, by some, that the Chinese are 'fudging' their numbers to keep the death rate at around 2%. Apparently, a couple of provinces that are reporting their own data have a death rate of 4.8%.
   I sure don't know the truth, for sure, but I don't buy much of anything China sells.....


----------



## Capt Lightning

If you like Chinese (or any other) style food, there's nothing to stop you cooking it yourself with ingredients that you trust.


----------



## toffee

medical centre in brighton has closed its doors -which is bad thing to happen 'got more breakouts in some of 
our hospitals not looking good here ...


----------



## Catlady

UPDATE ON CORONAVIRUS:


*Coronavirus by the numbers*
The total number of confirmed coronavirus 2019-nCoV cases across the world is 40,561 and 910 deaths have been reported. Japan's Health Ministry says another 60 people on Carnival Corporation's (NYSE:CCL) Diamond Princess ship have tested positive to bring the total number of people infected to 130. Capital Economics estimates the coronavirus will cost the world economy $280B in Q1 and send global GDP in reverse (quarter over quarter) for the first time since 2009. Still, the longer-term view from analysts isn't so gloomy. "We assume the virus will be contained soon, and that lost output is made up in subsequent quarters so that world GDP reaches the level it would have done had there been no outbreak by the middle of 2021," notes Capital Economics. The People's Bank of China is busy taking action to prop up the economy, injecting 1.7T yuan of liquidity into the market and instructing banks not to call in loans for companies based in the virus-stricken Hubei province.


----------



## win231

I just saw a news report that said the Princess Cruise ship is now a "Floating Incubator."
It reminded me of the Carnival Triumph cruise ship a few years ago where the plumbing quit working & it became a "Floating Toilet."  Over 4,000 passengers slept on the upper deck in pouring rain.
If I had to choose one, I'd pick the "Floating Incubator."  The other option would make me jump overboard.

Just makes 'ya wanna take a romantic cruise.....


----------



## retiredtraveler

toffee said:


> medical centre in brighton has closed its doors -which is bad thing to happen 'got more breakouts in some of
> our hospitals not looking good here ...


I looked up that story as I'm coming over in about 5 weeks. It says out of the 8 people in UK with virus, two are GP's. At this point, no cause for 'undue' concern. I'm in the group that believes that most western countries can contain outbreaks as we have much better tracking and facilities. 
The article mentions:
_"....Meanwhile, the Department of Health has introduced new measures in England that mean those in quarantine will not be free to leave their accommodation, and can be forcibly sent into isolation if they pose a threat.
The move comes after a passenger on the first UK flight from Wuhan, who is being held in quarantine on the Wirral, had been "threatening to abscond" despite signing a contract agreeing to the isolation period...."._

I stated in a post the other day that I had every confidence that civil liberties would be suspended for carriers. Now, it begins (fine with me!).


----------



## AnnieA

retiredtraveler said:


> I looked up that story as I'm coming over in about 5 weeks. It says out of the 8 people in UK with virus, two are GP's. At this point, no cause for 'undue' concern. I'm in the group that believes that most western countries can contain outbreaks as we have much better tracking and facilities.
> The article mentions:
> _"....Meanwhile, the Department of Health has introduced new measures in England that mean those in quarantine will not be free to leave their accommodation, and can be forcibly sent into isolation if they pose a threat.
> The move comes after a passenger on the first UK flight from Wuhan, who is being held in quarantine on the Wirral, had been "threatening to abscond" despite signing a contract agreeing to the isolation period...."._
> 
> I stated in a post the other day that I had every confidence that civil liberties would be suspended for carriers. Now, it begins (fine with me!).



I was planning an April trip but am going to wait a year.  Plenty of places to visit that don't require flying.


----------



## fmdog44

Bought a mask today. The CEO of CVS said today they are out of masks and some sites on line are "Out of stock." Better safe than dead.


----------



## retiredtraveler

AnnieA said:


> I was planning an April trip but am going to wait a year.  Plenty of places to visit that don't require flying.


I'm going to London second half of March. Booked long ago. I will always be 'concerned', but not 'worried'.


----------



## StarSong

retiredtraveler said:


> I'm going to London second half of March. Booked long ago. I will always be 'concerned', but not 'worried'.


I also have air travel plans on the books.  So far I see no compelling reason to cancel them.


----------



## retiredtraveler

fmdog44 said:


> Bought a mask today. The CEO of CVS said today they are out of masks and some sites on line are "Out of stock." Better safe than dead.


You realize that just about any article you can read about masks shows they have little effect. If you're going to have one, you need one with a respirator, rather than a 'plain' mask. Many people do not use them properly. If you wear the mask, then pull it down to your neck, you've exposed your hands to whatever is on the mask. So, if you touch the mask, you have to toss it, wash your hands, and put on a new one.


----------



## StarSong

We always keep a couple dozen masks on hand.  They're mainly for when my husband is doing sanding or similar household projects.  

I agree, with you @retiredtraveler. However, it's human nature to find comfort in doing SOMETHING to protect ourselves besides just washing our hands, should a viral epidemic hit the US.


----------



## Scottlass1953

Virus tracker...

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6


----------



## win231

StarSong said:


> We always keep a couple dozen masks on hand.  They're mainly for when my husband is doing sanding or similar household projects.
> 
> I agree, with you @retiredtraveler. However, it's human nature to find comfort in doing SOMETHING to protect ourselves besides just washing our hands, should a viral epidemic hit the US.


I use the masks when using my leaf blower (along with eye protection).  The mask does prevent breathing in particles & dust.  Viruses & bacteria are small enough to get past the material.  These are cheap masks; not the ones used during surgery.  Masks that protect from viruses are much-more expensive.


----------



## StarSong

win231 said:


> I use the masks when using my leaf blower (along with eye protection).  The mask does prevent breathing in particles & dust.  Viruses & bacteria are small enough to get past the material.  These are cheap masks; not the ones used during surgery.  Masks that protect from viruses are much-more expensive.


They're not perfect and won't catch every bit of nasty in the air, but are better than nothing if that's all folks can get.


----------



## C'est Moi

retiredtraveler said:


> You realize that just about any article you can read about masks shows they have little effect. If you're going to have one, you need one with a respirator, rather than a 'plain' mask. Many people do not use them properly. If you wear the mask, then pull it down to your neck, you've exposed your hands to whatever is on the mask. So, if you touch the mask, you have to toss it, wash your hands, and put on a new one.


Exactly.   The typical "particle mask" will not filter germs and bacteria so they are a total waste.


----------



## OneEyedDiva

win231 said:


> The Corona Virus is a goldmine. (just in time to compensate for the increasing lack of interest in the flu shot)
> 
> 1.   Lots of scare advertising about how easy it is to get it, how sick it makes you, & how many people are dying of it.
> 
> 2.   Then:  "Luckily we've developed a vaccine for it; we recommend everyone get it, especially the young, the old, & those with compromised immune systems." (which everyone has)
> 
> 3.   Even if the vaccine doesn't work & you still get the Corona Virus, you'll get well sooner.
> 
> 4.  Guilt advertising - If you don't get the vaccine, you'll make other people sick.
> 
> 5.  We care so much, we're offering free groceries to everyone who gets the vaccine.


Win23...Having had a career as a Disease Intervention Specialist for the state of N.J.’s, I remember when we were first notified about the HIV/AIDS virus. The head honchos came up from the state capital to tell us about a form of cancer, Kaposis sarcoma that presented simultaneously on the east and west coasts in two young gay men.  CDC Epidemiologists were concerned and suspicious because KS was usually found in older people.  At first I didn’t understand why our bosses thought it was important enough to make the trip up to talk to our staff about cancer since we followed up on STDs. Turns out the subjects had developed AIDS due to the HIV virus which wound up spreading rapidly, as you know.  We lost all of our gay (fairly young) patients to the disease. 

Some are not taking the Corona virus seriously when I think they should.  After all, this is an *airborne* infection, whereas HIV is only transmittable via bodily fluids and look how widespread that became. Hearing about the amount of health workers sickened by this virus, let alone how quickly it's spread already, is a scary thing. My viewpoint as a former epidemiologist.  I just hope it doesn’t come to the point it did in the series Containment. But could the show have been yet another example of fiction becoming fact?


----------



## StarSong

@OneEyedDiva - To go off topic for a moment, what a fascinating field of work yours must have been sometimes!  Mounds of paperwork though, I'm sure, not to mention plenty of sadness and frustration, but you must have felt your work was truly important.


----------



## OneEyedDiva

StarSong said:


> @OneEyedDiva - To go off topic for a moment, what a fascinating field of work yours must have been sometimes!  Mounds of paperwork though, I'm sure, not to mention plenty of sadness and frustration, but you must have felt your work was truly important.


It *was* important work StarSong. We stopped the spread of many cases of syphilis, gonorrhea, other STDs and at some point, HIV.  Our unit didn't always do the HIV follow up, we only did it for awhile before a separate unit was formed both on municipal and state levels. Our job consisted of interviewing and counseling patients, some of whom were very scared, some of whom were misinformed by their doctors, improperly treated and overcharged to boot. Then we had to bring in or refer their partners for treatment without saying who gave their names. Not easy when there's a faithful wife or husband thinking it must be a mistake. I remember this one wife, in particular who refused to come in for preventive treatment.  Six months later, she called me in a panic. She was exhibiting signs of secondary syphilis. 

When patients came to our clinic, we cleared things up for them (literally) and it was free.  We were also responsible for following up on congenital syphilis babies and consulting with doctors, if it became necessary, about using the proper CDC treatment protocols. You'd be surprised how many doctors gave the wrong treatment and/or the wrong dosages. I'll never forget this one gay regular we had. His name was Larry. He was a good looking, friendly, courteous young man. He said he was going to sue his doctor for improperly diagnosing him with the HIV.  Well, not long after, Larry died. It was sad to lose them one by one. But even with the frustrations and sad events, I loved my work. It was an interesting career for sure.


----------



## Catlady

*Harvard scientist predicts coronavirus will infect up to 70 percent of humanity*
Harvard University epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch is predicting the coronavirus "will ultimately not be containable" and, within a year, will infect somewhere between 40 and 70 percent of humanity, _The Atlantic_ reports. But don't be too alarmed. Many of those people, Lipsitch clarifies, won't have severe illnesses or even show symptoms at all, which is already the case for many people who have tested positive for the virus. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/harvard-scientist-predicts-coronavirus-infect-195800282.html


----------



## Gardenlover

Catlady said:


> *Harvard scientist predicts coronavirus will infect up to 70 percent of humanity*
> Harvard University epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch is predicting the coronavirus "will ultimately not be containable" and, within a year, will infect somewhere between 40 and 70 percent of humanity, _The Atlantic_ reports. But don't be too alarmed. Many of those people, Lipsitch clarifies, won't have severe illnesses or even show symptoms at all, which is already the case for many people who have tested positive for the virus.
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/harvard-scientist-predicts-coronavirus-infect-195800282.html


If this is the case, will it simply build up your immunity?


----------



## old medic

Corona virus deaths.... 1114
US flu deaths .... Est 16000
Malaria deaths 2017.....435000
UHM?????


----------



## StarSong

old medic said:


> Corona virus deaths.... 1114
> US flu deaths .... Est 16000
> Malaria deaths 2017.....435000
> UHM?????



Good points. However:
As of this morning, this strain of corona virus has reported deaths of 2700 and counting. (Undoubtedly the true number is much higher.)

We've discussed seasonal flu and flu vaccines here before. A fresh thread every autumn.

Malaria is an entirely different kettle of fish because it isn't transmitted person-to-person. While obviously a terrible illness, it's limited to where the Anopheles mosquito lives, and is not teetering on worldwide pandemic status.


----------



## Catlady

StarSong said:


> Good points. However:
> As of this morning, this strain of corona virus has reported deaths of 2700 and counting. (Undoubtedly the true number is much higher.)
> 
> We've discussed seasonal flu and flu vaccines here before. A fresh thread every autumn.
> 
> Malaria is an entirely different kettle of fish because it isn't transmitted person-to-person. While obviously a terrible illness, it's limited to where the Anopheles mosquito lives, and is not teetering on worldwide pandemic status.


Good post!  I agree completely.  I think the scariest thing about Corona is that we are still unsure how it is spread, the worst may yet be coming.


----------



## OneEyedDiva

old medic said:


> Corona virus deaths.... 1114
> US flu deaths .... Est 16000
> Malaria deaths 2017.....435000
> UHM?????


You posted statistics but what are the time periods for each of those statistics?


----------



## fmdog44

On 02/26/20 the CBS evening news said the corona virus started with diseased bats in China. One person handled one and touched his or her mouth and that was all she wrote. One person...wow!


----------



## fmdog44

OneEyedDiva said:


> You posted statistics but what are the time periods for each of those statistics?


old medic failed to post what the end total will be if the corona virus ever comes under control.


----------



## Catlady

fmdog44 said:


> On 02/26/20 the CBS evening news said the corona virus started with diseased bats in China. One person handled one and touched his or her mouth and that was all she wrote. One person...wow!


All the experts seem to think it originated in what they call a ''wet market'' in Wuhan, where they keep animals to be slaughtered in close quarters.  Even animals like cats, dogs, and bats etc.  The Chinese have very ''eclectic'' tastes.


----------



## hollydolly

I'm going to show you something that was posted on another forum today...








... in the 80's Dean Koontz wrote a book called the Eves of darkness  and in this book...you will see ringed some very interesting information.... remember Koontz is a 'fiction writer''  not a fortunate teller... and this was written almost 40 years ago. Further into the book I'm reliably informed is another page which discusses  an epidemic of the corona virus happening in 2020,


----------



## old medic

Those stats are from the CDC, annual totals from 17 or 18....
Total end stats for Corona.... time will tell. 

Interesting info found looking into the Spanish Flu Pandemic that killed 40 million to 50 million, and possibly as high as 100 million in 2 years....

In 2014, historian Mark Humphries argued that the mobilization of 96,000 Chinese laborers to work behind the British and French lines might have been the source of the pandemic. Humphries, of the Memorial University of Newfoundland in St. John's, based his conclusions on newly unearthed records. He found archival evidence that a respiratory illness that struck northern China in November 1917 was identified a year later by Chinese health officials as identical to the Spanish flu.

More historical scary numbers here   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics


----------



## RadishRose

Italy announced Wednesday that it will temporarily close all its schools and universities as the country continues to grapple with a surge in coronavirus infections, according to new reports.


Those closures will begin on Thursday and last until mid-March, CNBC reported.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/04/italy-to-close-all-schools-universities-amid-coronavirus-crisis/


----------



## Don M.

It appears that any reliable means of treating this illness is months....perhaps a year, or more....away.  In the interim, this virus will most likely continue to spread, world wide....as travelers continue to move about the globe.  Here, in the U.S., we are probably just on the "cusp" of increasing numbers of cases.  In other nations, schools are already closing, and businesses are being impacted.  Those conditions may well exist here in weeks and months to come.  There is so much "unknown" about this virus, that making any accurate predictions about the effects is almost impossible.


----------



## Liberty

hollydolly said:


> I'm going to show you something that was posted on another forum today...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... in the 80's Dean Koontz wrote a book called the Eves of darkness  and in this book...you will see ringed some very interesting information.... remember Koontz is a 'fiction writer''  not a fortunate teller... and this was written almost 40 years ago. Further into the book I'm reliably informed is another page which discusses  an epidemic of the corona virus happening in 2020,


That is totally scary...of course, hub says "if you put 50 monkeys in a room with 50 computers and let them write you'd be surprised what they probably turn out!


----------



## hollydolly

Liberty said:


> That is totally scary...of course, hub says "if you put 50 monkeys in a room with 50 computers and let them write you'd be surprised what they probably turn out!


* In this case it wasn't monkeys it was a well known author writing ''fiction'' 40 years ago *


----------



## StarSong

Liberty said:


> That is totally scary...of course, hub says "if you put 50 monkeys in a room with 50 computers and let them write you'd be surprised what they probably turn out!


Endless pages of gibberish.


----------



## StarSong

Don M. said:


> It appears that any reliable means of treating this illness is months....perhaps a year, or more....away.  In the interim, this virus will most likely continue to spread, world wide....as travelers continue to move about the globe.  Here, in the U.S., we are probably just on the "cusp" of increasing numbers of cases.  In other nations, schools are already closing, and businesses are being impacted.  Those conditions may well exist here in weeks and months to come.  There is so much "unknown" about this virus, that making any accurate predictions about the effects is almost impossible.


This morning I was able to cancel April's "non-refundable "flights (United changed its policy on that, and issued a full credit for future flights) and the "non-refundable" all-inclusive 10 day vacation in the Dominican Republic (got a full refund). 

No hassle whatsoever. Travel companies are bending over backwards.


----------



## Liberty

StarSong said:


> Endless pages of gibberish.


Hey, they proved they could pick stocks better than the experts...lol


----------



## Liberty

hollydolly said:


> * In this case it wasn't monkeys it was a well known author writing ''fiction'' 40 years ago *


Maybe its a case of "the truth really isn't stranger than fiction"...he even had a "bat " in the book!


----------



## charry

this is a joke now ! ...its worrying alot of people....
its worse than brexit lol.....


----------



## charry

hollydolly said:


> I'm going to show you something that was posted on another forum today...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... in the 80's Dean Koontz wrote a book called the Eves of darkness  and in this book...you will see ringed some very interesting information.... remember Koontz is a 'fiction writer''  not a fortunate teller... and this was written almost 40 years ago. Further into the book I'm reliably informed is another page which discusses  an epidemic of the corona virus happening in 2020,




was that buzz50?


----------



## fmdog44

So the warm weather will help the virus disappear? Then explain why when the northern hemisphere warms up the southern hemisphere gets cold the virus disappears!? To put it another way it does not disappear, only relocates but we travel all over the world so it is here to stay until a vaccine is distributed throughout the entire planet. Houston has it's first case today 03/05/20.


----------



## Lakeland living

I don't think they have enough data to make a warm weather prediction. Even if accuweather is supporting that one.
I would love to be wrong on both the above.
 I do think that we are in trouble , this was posted by the Canadian Government.

*Being prepared*
Although China remains the epicentre of the COVID-19 outbreak, more countries are reporting cases. Some countries may not have the capacity to detect or contain the disease. This means global efforts to stop the spread of the disease may not be enough to prevent a pandemic (global outbreak).
While the risk to Canadians is still *low*, it is important to be prepared at the individual and community level for all possible scenarios.
Canada's public health system is well equipped to contain cases coming from abroad. However, we are ready to shift our approach quickly if need be, from containment to slowing the spread of COVID-19.
In order to mitigate the impacts of COVID-19, *everyone has a role to play*. It takes more than governments and action from the health sector to protect the health and safety of Canadians. Each of us can help our country be prepared in the event of an emergency by understanding how coronavirus spreads and how to prevent illness.
*For individuals*
Canadians should continue to think ahead about the actions that they can take to stay healthy and prevent the spread of any illness, especially respiratory infections.
Now and always during cold and flu season, *stay home if you are sick*. Encourage those you know are sick to stay home until they no longer have symptoms.
Since respiratory viruses, such as the one that causes COVID-19, are spread through contact, change your regular greeting. Instead of a handshake, a kiss or a hug, a friendly wave or elbow bump is less likely to expose you to respiratory viruses.
Practise frequent hand hygiene and coughing/sneezing etiquette. Clean and disinfect frequently touched objects and surfaces, such as toys and doorknobs.
These are the most important ways that you can protect yourself and your family from respiratory illness, including COVID-19.
*Make a plan*
If COVID-19 becomes common in your community, you will want to have thought about how to change your behaviours and routines to reduce the risk of infection.
Your plan should include how you can change your regular habits to reduce your exposure to crowded places. For example, you may:

do your grocery shopping at off-peak hours
commute by public transit outside of the busy rush hour
opt to exercise outdoors instead of in an indoor fitness class
Your plan should also include what you will do if you become sick. If you are a caregiver of children or other dependents, you will want to have thought ahead to engage backup caregivers.
You should also think about what you will do if a member of your family becomes sick and needs care. Talk to your employer about working from home if you are needed to care for a family member at home. If you, yourself, become ill, stay home until you are no longer showing symptoms. Employers should not require a sick leave note as that will put added pressure on limited health care services.
Your plan should include shopping for supplies that you should have on hand at all times. This will ensure you do not need to leave your home while you are sick or busy caring for an ill family member.
Your plan should build on the kits you have prepared for other potential emergencies. For more information on how to prepare yourself and your family in the event of an emergency, please visit getprepared.ca.
*Fill your prescriptions*
Refill your prescriptions now so that you do not have to go to a busy pharmacy if you do become sick. Consider seeing your health care provider to renew your prescriptions ahead of time.
*Stock up on essentials but avoid panic buying*
At this time, it makes sense to fill your cupboards with non-perishable food items, so that you do not need to go shopping if you become sick.
It is easier on the supply chain if people gradually build up their household stores instead of making large-scale purchases all at once. To do this, you can add a few extra items to your grocery cart every time you shop. Good options are easy-to-prepare foods like:

dried pasta and sauce
prepared canned soups
canned vegetables and beans
It is also a good idea to have extra stores of:

pet food
toilet paper
facial tissue
feminine hygiene products
diapers (if you have children who use them)
The reason for stockpiling these items is not necessarily because you will need to self-isolate. Having these supplies on hand will ensure you do not need to leave your home at the peak of the outbreak or if you become ill.
*How to care for those who are ill*
If you or a member of your family become ill with COVID-19, there are precautions that should be taken in the home.
Your health care provider will advise you if hospital care is more appropriate. Refer to the guidance for health professionals when caring for someone with COVID-19 in a hospital setting.
To prepare for this potential situation, you should have on hand:

soap
facial tissue
alcohol-based hand sanitizer
paper towels
household cleaning products
regular detergents for washing dishes and doing laundry
fever-reducing medications, such as acetaminophen or ibuprofen
this includes products for children if you are a parent or caregiver

plastic garbage bags for containing soiled tissues and other waste
household bleach for creating a solution of 1 part bleach to 9 parts water to disinfect surfaces
*Get reliable information*
Make sure that you get high-quality information about COVID-19 from reliable sources. The Public Health Agency of Canada is a reliable source of information, as are provincial and territorial public health authorities.
If you are finding that the news media is making you feel anxious, take a break from it.
*Communicate with family, friends and neighbours*
Let your family, friends and neighbours know that you are making plans to prepare for COVID-19. Share your plan with them, as this might motivate them to make their own.
Talk to them about a buddy system in which you agree to check in on each other and run essential errands if you become sick.
    YOU DECIDE WHAT TO FOLLOW


----------



## StarSong

Lakeland living said:


> I don't think they have enough data to make a warm weather prediction. Even if accuweather is supporting that one.
> I would love to be wrong on both the above.
> I do think that we are in trouble , this was posted by the Canadian Government.
> 
> *Being prepared*
> Although China remains the epicentre of the COVID-19 outbreak, more countries are reporting cases. Some countries may not have the capacity to detect or contain the disease. This means global efforts to stop the spread of the disease may not be enough to prevent a pandemic (global outbreak).
> While the risk to Canadians is still *low*, it is important to be prepared at the individual and community level for all possible scenarios.
> Canada's public health system is well equipped to contain cases coming from abroad. However, we are ready to shift our approach quickly if need be, from containment to slowing the spread of COVID-19.
> In order to mitigate the impacts of COVID-19, *everyone has a role to play*. It takes more than governments and action from the health sector to protect the health and safety of Canadians. Each of us can help our country be prepared in the event of an emergency by understanding how coronavirus spreads and how to prevent illness.
> *For individuals*
> Canadians should continue to think ahead about the actions that they can take to stay healthy and prevent the spread of any illness, especially respiratory infections.
> Now and always during cold and flu season, *stay home if you are sick*. Encourage those you know are sick to stay home until they no longer have symptoms.
> Since respiratory viruses, such as the one that causes COVID-19, are spread through contact, change your regular greeting. Instead of a handshake, a kiss or a hug, a friendly wave or elbow bump is less likely to expose you to respiratory viruses.
> Practise frequent hand hygiene and coughing/sneezing etiquette. Clean and disinfect frequently touched objects and surfaces, such as toys and doorknobs.
> These are the most important ways that you can protect yourself and your family from respiratory illness, including COVID-19.
> *Make a plan*
> If COVID-19 becomes common in your community, you will want to have thought about how to change your behaviours and routines to reduce the risk of infection.
> Your plan should include how you can change your regular habits to reduce your exposure to crowded places. For example, you may:
> 
> do your grocery shopping at off-peak hours
> commute by public transit outside of the busy rush hour
> opt to exercise outdoors instead of in an indoor fitness class
> Your plan should also include what you will do if you become sick. If you are a caregiver of children or other dependents, you will want to have thought ahead to engage backup caregivers.
> You should also think about what you will do if a member of your family becomes sick and needs care. Talk to your employer about working from home if you are needed to care for a family member at home. If you, yourself, become ill, stay home until you are no longer showing symptoms. Employers should not require a sick leave note as that will put added pressure on limited health care services.
> Your plan should include shopping for supplies that you should have on hand at all times. This will ensure you do not need to leave your home while you are sick or busy caring for an ill family member.
> Your plan should build on the kits you have prepared for other potential emergencies. For more information on how to prepare yourself and your family in the event of an emergency, please visit getprepared.ca.
> *Fill your prescriptions*
> Refill your prescriptions now so that you do not have to go to a busy pharmacy if you do become sick. Consider seeing your health care provider to renew your prescriptions ahead of time.
> *Stock up on essentials but avoid panic buying*
> At this time, it makes sense to fill your cupboards with non-perishable food items, so that you do not need to go shopping if you become sick.
> It is easier on the supply chain if people gradually build up their household stores instead of making large-scale purchases all at once. To do this, you can add a few extra items to your grocery cart every time you shop. Good options are easy-to-prepare foods like:
> 
> dried pasta and sauce
> prepared canned soups
> canned vegetables and beans
> It is also a good idea to have extra stores of:
> 
> pet food
> toilet paper
> facial tissue
> feminine hygiene products
> diapers (if you have children who use them)
> The reason for stockpiling these items is not necessarily because you will need to self-isolate. Having these supplies on hand will ensure you do not need to leave your home at the peak of the outbreak or if you become ill.
> *How to care for those who are ill*
> If you or a member of your family become ill with COVID-19, there are precautions that should be taken in the home.
> Your health care provider will advise you if hospital care is more appropriate. Refer to the guidance for health professionals when caring for someone with COVID-19 in a hospital setting.
> To prepare for this potential situation, you should have on hand:
> 
> soap
> facial tissue
> alcohol-based hand sanitizer
> paper towels
> household cleaning products
> regular detergents for washing dishes and doing laundry
> fever-reducing medications, such as acetaminophen or ibuprofen
> this includes products for children if you are a parent or caregiver
> 
> plastic garbage bags for containing soiled tissues and other waste
> household bleach for creating a solution of 1 part bleach to 9 parts water to disinfect surfaces
> *Get reliable information*
> Make sure that you get high-quality information about COVID-19 from reliable sources. The Public Health Agency of Canada is a reliable source of information, as are provincial and territorial public health authorities.
> If you are finding that the news media is making you feel anxious, take a break from it.
> *Communicate with family, friends and neighbours*
> Let your family, friends and neighbours know that you are making plans to prepare for COVID-19. Share your plan with them, as this might motivate them to make their own.
> Talk to them about a buddy system in which you agree to check in on each other and run essential errands if you become sick.
> YOU DECIDE WHAT TO FOLLOW


Thank you for posting this.  There are additional links and information on the official Canadian health services website:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...coronavirus-infection/prevention-risks.html#h


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## Liberty

Think probably the most important thing is don't touch your face unless you've just washed your hands...hard to get used to though, isn't it?!


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## Catlady

Just heard on the news tonight that my county just got its first Coronavirus case, there are six in Arizona now.

I was reading about pandemics, there have been a LOT of them.  And the more the world population grows, the more often and more severe will be the pandemics.  If you scroll to the end, under Biological Warfare, there's an interesting speculation about how the Black Death started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic


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## Liberty

Catlady said:


> Just heard on the news tonight that my county just got its first Coronavirus case, there are six in Arizona now.
> 
> I was reading about pandemics, there have been a LOT of them.  And the more the world population grows, the more often and more severe will be the pandemics.  If you scroll to the end, under Biological Warfare, there's an interesting speculation about how the Black Death started.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic


I was in quarantine for 9 months with Scarlet Fever. That's the last one I remember.


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## Lakeland living

A lot of people are putting themselves into quarantine for the cornovavirus. We are now talking months of this, not just a couple of weeks.
 I know I won't go near a large city now. Not that ever went unless I had to....


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## StarSong

Liberty said:


> I was in quarantine for 9 months with Scarlet Fever. That's the last one I remember.


I've never been quarantined, but remember some friends who were due to whooping cough.  Those were only a couple of weeks.  9 months is a very long time - how old were you, @Liberty, and did you suffer any permanent damage from the illness?


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## Gardenlover

*China says disease 'curbed' in Wuhan and Hubei*
President Xi Jinping has visited the city of Wuhan, the centre of the coronavirus outbreak, sending a message that Beijing has the situation under control.

Link to full article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51813876

Light at the end of the tunnel, wishful thinking or propaganda?


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## Liberty

StarSong said:


> I've never been quarantined, but remember some friends who were due to whooping cough.  Those were only a couple of weeks.  9 months is a very long time - how old were you, @Liberty, and did you suffer any permanent damage from the illness?


I was 6 yrs old.  Only went to 2 weeks of my first grade school.  Had a big red heart on my door.  A classmate left my books outside the porch door on Friday and I did homework over the weekend and left them back out for her to pick up on Monday morningl  I had strep throat, Scarlett Fever and the German Measles all at the same time.  Was confined to bed in a darkened room for months.  Couldn't walk as my muscles had become so week. My mom was so afraid I had polio but the doc told her no, it was just because I'd been bedridden for so long.

I have a mitral valve prolapse (leaky valve)  as a result, but about 1 in 100 are born with it and most live long lives as well as other folks so I'm very fortunate I didn't get Rheumatic Heart Disease.  Remember the doctor coming every Friday and me bending over the bed for a shot of penicillin. Boy oh boy did I appreciate that first outdoor spring drive in the car!


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## Pecos

We are seeing a lot of goofy, stupid behavior on the part of individuals and their various governments.

I suspect that when this comes to an end, or gets controlled, we may see statistics that point to a higher survival rate among people who believe in Science and Knowledge vs those who worship Ignorance and Superstition. My confidence in our federal government is pretty low, but I am pleased to see that there are a handful of states and countries that are taking meaningful action to combat this virus. Unfortunately, South Carolina is not in that group and my wife and I will be drastically reducing our chances of getting exposed.


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## Pecos

Gardenlover said:


> *China says disease 'curbed' in Wuhan and Hubei*
> President Xi Jinping has visited the city of Wuhan, the centre of the coronavirus outbreak, sending a message that Beijing has the situation under control.
> 
> Link to full article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51813876
> 
> Light at the end of the tunnel, wishful thinking or propaganda?


Propaganda!


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## Lakeland living

Absolutely,  propaganda!!!


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## StarSong

Gardenlover said:


> *China says disease 'curbed' in Wuhan and Hubei*
> President Xi Jinping has visited the city of Wuhan, the centre of the coronavirus outbreak, sending a message that Beijing has the situation under control.
> 
> Link to full article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51813876
> 
> Light at the end of the tunnel, wishful thinking or propaganda?


If it's curbed, why are they all wearing masks?


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## Pecos

I went to breakfast with my Wed morning pals and we tried to follow all of the latest precautions:

Elbow bumps instead of handshakes.
Washed hands before sitting down.
Everyone had their own little handwipes, and used them.
Signed the electronic credit card screen using our pinky fingers.
Washed hands after getting up..
Used paper towels to open and close the bathroom door.

This is all going to get very old, very quick. I doubt that most people will even try to sustain it, …. until other people around them start dying.


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## Lakeland living

President Xi Jinping, his visit to Wuhan, No idea where he was , if even in the city. The visit /chat to Drs and patients was done by vidio
   HOW much is he showing?


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## win231

old medic said:


> Corona virus deaths.... 1114
> US flu deaths .... Est 16000
> Malaria deaths 2017.....435000
> UHM?????


And heart disease & strokes - 2,300 per DAY.


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## win231

The new "Safe Sex" will be:


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## PopsnTuff

This is worth reading about lack of communication worldwide!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/...action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage


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## IrisSenior

Deaths worldwide are almost to 5,000 and it isn't over. More and more places are closing if only for a few weeks.


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## RadishRose

_Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, the wife of Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, has tested positive for the novel coronavirus, becoming the latest in a string of high-profile individuals to become infected with the potentially deadly pathogen. _

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...anadas-trudeau-tests-positive-for-coronavirus

_Australia's home affairs minister confirmed Friday that he tested positive for the novel coronavirus, less than a week after meeting with Attorney General William Barr, senior White House adviser Ivanka Trump and other White House officials. _

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/13/poli...arr-australia-minister-coronavirus/index.html


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## RadishRose

WIENERMOBILE

@Wienermobile

We’ve made the difficult decision to cancel currently scheduled Wienermobile events for the near future. The health & safety of our fans, the Hotdoggers & the public is top priority. We look forward to getting back on the hot dog highway as soon as we can. Stay safe everyone 

6:38 PM · Mar 12, 2020·Twitter for iPhone


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## Sunny

Oh, good grief!  "Someone said,"  "I heard that..."  "I do have a page or two on that, somewhere..."  "I also heard that...."  Chinese have dirty kitchens?  Africans eat monkeys, which gave the world AIDS?  Bats, snake blood, deer penis wine? 

Get a grip, people! This all falls under the category of panicky rumor-spreading.  No one knows yet what caused the original coronavirus infection; you can be sure that if anyone did, it would be a major newspaper headline and all over the TV news and Internet.

And what if we do learn that?  Will that information be used to protect people and prevent more lethal infections?  I doubt it.  We all know that many of the fast food concoctions clog up our arteries, and that cigarette smoking often causes cancer. Yet, people are still flocking to McDonald's, and some people still smoke.

I suspect that if the virus did originate in China, all this shocked schoolyard-type whispering would be yet another nail in the coffin of human brotherhood. It would be used to incite even more hatred of "others" and distrust of people who seem strange to us. Probably some Chinese do eat weird, "exotic" parts of animals.  And by the way, so do some Americans.

Here's something else to mull over:  Do we actually know where and when other infectious diseases originated?  Who had the first case of smallpox?
Tuberculosis?  Diphtheria?  Scarlet fever?  Whooping cough?  Polio?  Does it matter?


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## squatting dog

Long before the panic. this chart shows lists the various virus's. Interesting.


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## InfamyInfamy

Well it is all getting a bit hairy now over here in the UK and Europe.
It makes one wonder were on earth this will all end!

*https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8108333/Coronavirus-fears-spread-Europe.html*

*Europe is now the EPICENTRE of coronavirus: WHO issues stark warning the continent has more daily cases than China did at the HEIGHT of its outbreak as countries rush to build emergency wards*

*WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said Europe was reporting more cases than China at its height*
*Medics have been working from makeshift tents in Italy and Poland with patients placed on temporary beds*
*In Russia, diggers were working into the night on a new infectious diseases clinic intended to serve Moscow*
*France, Luxembourg, Portugal, Malta and Belgium are among the latest countries to shut down their schools*
*France's Emmanuel Macron proposed tougher EU border control while Denmark warned against foreign trips *
*Spain has declared emergency with case toll rising to 4,200 and four towns in lockdown near Barcelona  *
*Coronavirus symptoms: what are they and should you see a doctor?*


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## Becky1951

Sunny said:


> Oh, good grief!  "Someone said,"  "I heard that..."  "I do have a page or two on that, somewhere..."  "I also heard that...."  Chinese have dirty kitchens?  Africans eat monkeys, which gave the world AIDS?  Bats, snake blood, deer penis wine?
> 
> Get a grip, people! This all falls under the category of panicky rumor-spreading.  No one knows yet what caused the original coronavirus infection; you can be sure that if anyone did, it would be a major newspaper headline and all over the TV news and Internet.
> 
> And what if we do learn that?  Will that information be used to protect people and prevent more lethal infections?  I doubt it.  We all know that many of the fast food concoctions clog up our arteries, and that cigarette smoking often causes cancer. Yet, people are still flocking to McDonald's, and some people still smoke.
> 
> I suspect that if the virus did originate in China, all this shocked schoolyard-type whispering would be yet another nail in the coffin of human brotherhood. It would be used to incite even more hatred of "others" and distrust of people who seem strange to us. Probably some Chinese do eat weird, "exotic" parts of animals.  And by the way, so do some Americans.
> 
> Here's something else to mull over:  Do we actually know where and when other infectious diseases originated?  Who had the first case of smallpox?
> Tuberculosis?  Diphtheria?  Scarlet fever?  Whooping cough?  Polio?  Does it matter?


I think it came from a Lab. Released accidentally.


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## Packerjohn

Here is the latest from the Canadian government:  
*Avoid all travel on cruise ships*

The Government of Canada is *advising that Canadians avoid all travel on cruise ships* due to the ongoing COVID-19 outbreak, until further notice.
Cruise passengers  include travellers from around the world who may be arriving from areas with  known or unknown spread of COVID-19. The virus can spread quickly on board  cruises due to the close contact between passengers. Older people and  people with a weakened immune system or underlying medical condition are at a  higher risk of developing severe disease.

“We don’t really have any evidence to show that wearing a mask in public spaces is going to protect you,” says Dr. Hota. Just try and stay about 2 metres away from other passengers if they are coughing or sneezing, if at all possible.


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## Don M.

Even though there has been only a couple of people diagnosed with this virus, in Missouri, the local actions being taken to reduce its spread are increasing almost daily.  The list of closures and cancellations of public gatherings is increasing...schools, sporting events, music concerts, etc., etc.   

Either there is a lot of "overreaction" to this illness, OR governments are "sitting on" a lot of information that could cause people to Panic.  Personally, I am starting to think that the Latter is a real possibility, and the U.S. is on the doorstep of a major epidemic.  There is more than one medical "expert" who is saying that there are probably thousands of people going about their daily lives who have the virus, but with symptoms that haven't shown up yet.  With the seeming lack of test kits...just now becoming a high priority...the next few weeks may be critical.  Either the U.S. will escape the brunt of this illness....OR we will be looking like parts of Europe and Asia by April.


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## win231

Watch the White House Update on now.
Note the _*2 -3 inch *_"Social Distancing" between Trump, Dr. Fauci & the other guy.


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## down2earth

China certainly created the Corona virus. Italy created the bubonic plague. Spain created influenza. Portugal is responsible for cholera.
Ethiopia created smallpox. Austria created typhus. South Africa is linked with Malaria. And Sudan created HIV/AIDS. There you have it.

My burning curiosity is in which lab did STUPIDITY originate? It's totally out of control. Albert Einstein summed it up...

*-Artificial Intelligence is no match for STUPIDITY.
-The difference between STUPIDITY and genius is that genius has its limits.
-Only two things are infinite, the universe and human STUPIDITY. And I'm not sure about the former.
-There is no vaccine against STUPIDITY.*


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## Been There

I went to a viewing of an old friend yesterday. I spoke with his oldest son who told me that after he received his first COVID vaccine, two days later, he was walking through the mall with his wife when suddenly, he couldn’t remember where he was or who he was. He held onto his wife until she could sit him down.

Of course, she called 911, got him to a hospital nearby, and after testing found he had a stroke, which effected his vision in his right eye. He has since lost his driver’s license. The doctors came to the conclusion that the vaccine probably caused the stroke because there is a history of the vaccine causing strokes. He is 55 years old and was in good health with no pre existing conditions. No surgery was required.


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## win231

Been There said:


> I went to a viewing of an old friend yesterday. I spoke with his oldest son who told me that after he received his first COVID vaccine, two days later, he was walking through the mall with his wife when suddenly, he couldn’t remember where he was or who he was. He held onto his wife until she could sit him down.
> 
> Of course, she called 911, got him to a hospital nearby, and after testing found he had a stroke, which effected his vision in his right eye. He has since lost his driver’s license. The doctors came to the conclusion that the vaccine probably caused the stroke because there is a history of the vaccine causing strokes. He is 55 years old and was in good health with no pre existing conditions. No surgery was required.


That factored into my decision not to get the vaccine.  I read about that possibility.  I've had 3 TIA's (mini strokes that are temporary).  It wasn't worth the risk to me.


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## win231

Been There said:


> I went to a viewing of an old friend yesterday. I spoke with his oldest son who told me that after he received his first COVID vaccine, two days later, he was walking through the mall with his wife when suddenly, he couldn’t remember where he was or who he was. He held onto his wife until she could sit him down.
> 
> Of course, she called 911, got him to a hospital nearby, and after testing found he had a stroke, which effected his vision in his right eye. He has since lost his driver’s license. The doctors came to the conclusion that the vaccine probably caused the stroke because there is a history of the vaccine causing strokes. He is 55 years old and was in good health with no pre existing conditions. No surgery was required.


That would be enough to completely ruin my life.  The biggest issue for me:  "You can't "untake" a vaccine.  If it causes harm (immediately or in the future), you have to live with it.  And it seemed like an especially bad idea for an illness that is mostly survivable.


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## win231

Been There said:


> I went to a viewing of an old friend yesterday. I spoke with his oldest son who told me that after he received his first COVID vaccine, two days later, he was walking through the mall with his wife when suddenly, he couldn’t remember where he was or who he was. He held onto his wife until she could sit him down.
> 
> Of course, she called 911, got him to a hospital nearby, and after testing found he had a stroke, which effected his vision in his right eye. He has since lost his driver’s license. The doctors came to the conclusion that the vaccine probably caused the stroke because there is a history of the vaccine causing strokes. He is 55 years old and was in good health with no pre existing conditions. No surgery was required.


Interesting that doctors said the vaccine probably caused the stroke.  Most doctors would never blame the vaccine for anything - especially one that's so heavily advertised.  A friend of mine had a heart attack the day after his first booster.  His doctor said, "No....just a coincidence."
Maybe, maybe not.  But he's not getting any more boosters.


----------



## Been There

win231 said:


> Interesting that doctors said the vaccine probably caused the stroke.  Most doctors would never blame the vaccine for anything - especially one that's so heavily advertised.  A friend of mine had a heart attack the day after his first booster.  His doctor said, "No....just a coincidence."
> Maybe, maybe not.  But he's not getting any more boosters.


He told me that the doctor said based on the number of strokes that have happened recently and within the same time period after having taken the vaccine, he would think the vaccine may have been the cause. Normally, when a person has a stroke caused by a blood vessel in the brain, it will either break or at least leak. His blood vessel only, (what he called), bubbled, which is very unusual and has been known to happen due to medication.

I questioned why was his driver’s license taken away and was told that they can be restored, but he must take his driver’s test again. He took the test and failed.


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## Sunny

Been There said:


> I went to a viewing of an old friend yesterday. I spoke with his oldest son who told me that after he received his first COVID vaccine, two days later, he was walking through the mall with his wife when suddenly, he couldn’t remember where he was or who he was. He held onto his wife until she could sit him down.
> 
> Of course, she called 911, got him to a hospital nearby, and after testing found he had a stroke, which effected his vision in his right eye. He has since lost his driver’s license. The doctors came to the conclusion that the vaccine probably caused the stroke because there is a history of the vaccine causing strokes. He is 55 years old and was in good health with no pre existing conditions. No surgery was required.


What did the friend die of? Was it the stroke, or somethng else, much later?


----------



## chic

Been There said:


> He told me that the doctor said based on the number of strokes that have happened recently and within the same time period after having taken the vaccine, he would think the vaccine may have been the cause. Normally, when a person has a stroke caused by a blood vessel in the brain, it will either break or at least leak. His blood vessel only, (what he called), bubbled, which is very unusual and has been known to happen due to medication.
> 
> I questioned why was his driver’s license taken away and was told that they can be restored, but he must take his driver’s test again. He took the test and failed.


Sometimes those giving the shots don't aspirate which is standard procedure for giving a shot. If they hit a blood vessel instead of the muscle then the vaccine goes straight into the bloodstream and clots can result. I'd still like to know a lot more about this technology before submitting my body for experimentation. The "no product liability" clause really bothers me.


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## Muskrat

Too bad so much of this science is looking in the rearview mirror. If older people are the ones taking the most vaccines then they already are the demographic that has the most heart attacks and strokes. Many things contribute to blood clots…lack of physical activity, travel, dehydration, certain medications ect. Going to take years and years to get a good feel. Meanwhile…i am going to get my boosters as I need them. Keep calm folks…different strokes for different folks.


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## win231

chic said:


> Sometimes those giving the shots don't aspirate which is standard procedure for giving a shot. If they hit a blood vessel instead of the muscle then the vaccine goes straight into the bloodstream and clots can result. I'd still like to know a lot more about this technology before submitting my body for experimentation. The "no product liability" clause really bothers me.


Yes, if the vaccine causes harm, they'll say, _"Well, it was YOUR decision; nobody forced you to get it."_
Uh, yeah........just can't work, can't travel, & you'll have to listen to fools insulting you......


----------



## chic

win231 said:


> Yes, if the vaccine causes harm, they'll say, _"Well, it was YOUR decision; nobody forced you to get it."_


Exactly. That's the worst part.


----------



## Warrigal

down2earth said:


> China certainly created the Corona virus. Italy created the bubonic plague. Spain created influenza. Portugal is responsible for cholera.
> Ethiopia created smallpox. Austria created typhus. South Africa is linked with Malaria. And Sudan created HIV/AIDS. There you have it.
> 
> My burning curiosity is in which lab did STUPIDITY originate? It's totally out of control. Albert Einstein summed it up...
> 
> *-Artificial Intelligence is no match for STUPIDITY.
> -The difference between STUPIDITY and genius is that genius has its limits.
> -Only two things are infinite, the universe and human STUPIDITY. And I'm not sure about the former.
> -There is no vaccine against STUPIDITY.*


AI wasn't a thing in Einstein's lifetime.


----------



## squatting dog




----------



## SeniorBen

I still don't know what myocarditis is... Never heard of it.


----------



## win231

SeniorBen said:


> I still don't know what myocarditis is... Never heard of it.


I didn't know what it was, either, until I watched an interview with Billy Bob Thornton that was included with his movie:  _"Sling Blade."_
He talked about the time he was very sick & didn't have any money & the ER doctors at the hospital were discussing what to do with him.
He was diagnosed with Myocarditis - which is a life-threatening condition involving inflammation of the heart wall.


----------



## Magna-Carta

down2earth said:


> China certainly created the Corona virus. Italy created the bubonic plague. Spain created influenza. Portugal is responsible for cholera.
> Ethiopia created smallpox. Austria created typhus. South Africa is linked with Malaria. And Sudan created HIV/AIDS. There you have it.
> 
> My burning curiosity is in which lab did STUPIDITY originate? It's totally out of control. Albert Einstein summed it up...
> 
> *-Artificial Intelligence is no match for STUPIDITY.
> -The difference between STUPIDITY and genius is that genius has its limits.
> -Only two things are infinite, the universe and human STUPIDITY. And I'm not sure about the former.
> -There is no vaccine against STUPIDITY.*


Whats your theory on Spain creating influenza?  I thought the biggest influsenza pandemic came to Europe from the USA durig WW1


----------



## Magna-Carta

A couple of years ago or so, when I first heard in the news that the virus came from China, then 'possibly' from a lab in China, I couldn't help thinking about a British TV show in the 70's called SURVIVORS.

I can only just about remember it.  It was about a Chinese scientist who accidently released a virus that spread around the world, causing pneumonia like symptoms, and wiping out most people in every country.

*Some clips from the TV show:*


----------



## JaniceM

SeniorBen said:


> I still don't know what myocarditis is... Never heard of it.


It's what my grandfather died of..  many decades before covid.  Hardly a laughing matter.


----------

