# Do doctors put a patient age limit on what procedures they do?



## debodun (Sep 19, 2019)

My 86-year-old friend of mine is experiencing excruciating knee pain to the point she is practically an invalid and it is causing her heart to fibrillate. She told me that her doctor said she is not a candidate for knee surgery. He also will not recommend a colonoscopy. I just wondered if the doctor's reticence could be due to her age and if there is an age cut-off for medical procedures.


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## Patio Life (Sep 19, 2019)

With increasing age a person's body may not be able to cope with certain procedures. If her heart is bad or she has breathing issues, she may not be a candidate for surgery.


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## debodun (Sep 19, 2019)

Patio Life said:


> With increasing age a person's body may not be able to cope with certain procedures. If her heart is bad or she has breathing issues, she may not be a candidate for surgery.


That's a tough situation in which to be.


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## DaveA (Sep 19, 2019)

I'll be 86 in a couple of months and from general conversations with my GP and Cardiac specialist, I gather that anything other than a life-threatening condition is better left alone, at least in my case.  I'm OK with that. I use a cane if I'm out and about in the yard or grocery shopping, etc..  I'm thankful that I'm still able to do that.


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## jerry old (Sep 19, 2019)

yes, absolutely
'your getting older...you can expect a lot of aches and pains...here I'll write a script for you...'


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## Seeker (Sep 19, 2019)

yes..they will probably put her in pain management.

At least that is my experience with my mother who is 87.


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## debbie in seattle (Sep 19, 2019)

Yes they do!   If you go to a doc and you’re really old or medically at risk and told no problem by the doc, you might think about getting a second opinion.


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## Lc jones (Sep 19, 2019)

My father was 80 years old when he fell and broke his hip they repaired it and two days later he passed away from pneumonia


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## Marie5656 (Sep 19, 2019)

*I may be wrong, but isn't there a maximum age where they no longer feel it is needed to get a regular colonoscopy or mammogram?  I may have to investigate.   
As for surgery, I agree that sometimes age and other health issues are needed to be considered before they decide to continue.  My uncle also died not long after surgery to repair a broken hip.  He also had Parkinsons, so I am not sure if that was a contributing factor.  He was in his 80s at the time*


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## rgp (Sep 19, 2019)

I sometimes think that the elderly are mere "crash-test-dummies" / practice, for surgery/surgeons . If they do encounter a setback , and or die? The doc's say well......he/she was after all 80-90 whatever.

Don't want to reopen the [they care/they don't care] debate but. IMO these days a doctor they truly cares is about as rare as hens teeth.


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## win231 (Sep 19, 2019)

A colonoscopy requires the use of Propofol.  I suppose it is riskier with age.  Propofol is what caused Joan Rivers' death at 81 during an endoscopy.  And also Michael Jackson at 50 (although his doctor's malpractice contributed).
https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/joan-rivers-death-revealed/story?id=25264318
I think most doctors would not want to replace knees or hips after a certain age - both because of limited benefit and increased risk.
Yes, some things are better left alone - even younger than 86.


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## Warrigal (Sep 19, 2019)

I am now 76 and in the past 6 years I have elected to get some needed surgery out of the way while I am still able to handle the operations and rehabilitations. The surgeons did ask for a check up with a cardiologist first because I take meds for BP and cholesterol levels.

I was amazed at the advanced age of some of the other patients and at their determination to co-operate with the post op requirements. I think it is not so much the age as the attitude that counts. If people think that surgery will remedy their ills without effort on their behalf, then the results are unlikely to be beneficial. If they are very pain adverse the procedure could be so traumatic for them that they might regress emotionally and mentally. 

Surgeons do not have to take on every case and patients are free to seek a second opinion if knocked back by their first selection.


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## JustBonee (Sep 19, 2019)

I just turned 76 myself.  Not on any meds.  ..  And at my last yearly exam in June,   my primary doctor told me  what tests are available if I'm interested,  but it's my choice whether I get them or not.  I like that option.


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## AnnieA (Sep 19, 2019)

My 85 year old aunt's doctor said she's a good candidate for a second knee replacement.  She's had one successful replacement, but the other knee is giving out on her now so she's fallen several times.  She's pretty healthy otherwise.

I have seen doctors document in charts that a patient isn't a candidate for a procedure due to other medical problems, and some of those patients were relatively young.   Mostly what I see is that it's the state health more than age that most doctors go by.


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## Mike (Sep 19, 2019)

Yes and No, both are correct.

It depends where you live and in some cases your
relationship with your Doctor.

Mike.


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## Lara (Sep 20, 2019)

It happened to me 2.5 months ago regarding my broken shoulder when my Orthopedic doctor said, "You have multiple fractures in your proximal humerus but I wouldn't recommend surgery at your age (I'm still in my 60s) and also your fractures are in alignment. He also has other red flags.

I still don't have full mobility (but much improved) and I still have a lot of pain when trying to lay flat on my back in bed and when doing physical therapy exercises and when trying to reach up. I read that if you don't heal quickly enough you can get arthritis in it. Yes, I'm concern.

I was going to go to another doctor for a "second opinion" but Medicare B won't cover it unless I'm already scheduled for surgery. I wonder if I can just switch doctors and not call it a "second opinion"? But that doctor probably wouldn't want to take me on since he's in the business of surgery and won't make big money off of me since I'm so "old".


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## Warrigal (Sep 20, 2019)

I would definitely get a second opinion. If your bone hasn't healed properly you need to know.


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## Lara (Sep 20, 2019)

Thank you Warrigal but they tell me the x-ray shows my fractures have all healed. The pain, apparently, is coming from the soft issue or muscles according to my daughter. There is also a popping feeling going on in there. My Uber driver was the one to tell me that his doctor told him it was air pockets. At first my physical therapist said it's not pain, its brain receptors sending signals. I told him "No. I know what pain is and this is pain". He dismissed that and repeated his brain explanation....and told me to stop grimacing when doing my exercises.

I canceled my next appointment and told the receptionist it was because I'm in a lot of pain (I don't take meds but just started with 2 tylenol every). Then my PT emailed me a lengthy apology for "dismissing my pain and pushing me beyond my tolerance level" and that he believes it's pain in the soft tissue. I think he did some research because he never mentioned soft tissue before. I made an appointment with him today because I appreciated his apology. We'll see.


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## Lc jones (Sep 20, 2019)

Lc jones said:


> My father was 80 years old when he fell and broke his hip they repaired it and two days later he passed away from pneumonia


A devastating day


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## 911 (Sep 20, 2019)

I had a procedure done early yesterday morning. The Anesthesiologist told me that he would be using Propofol. My blood oxygen level was 98% going into surgery. I woke easily and was ready to leave in a half hour after awakening. 

From what I have read, Propofol is the drug of choice for putting patients to sleep for a simple surgery. There are other drugs that are more potent that are used for longer surgeries. 

Someday in the future, I would hope safer drugs would be developed to put patients asleep.


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## debodun (Sep 20, 2019)

In 2005, I had a fall and broke the middle finger of my left hand. Good thing I am right handed. Even after surgery, it never healed properly and the finger is still bent and I have no mobility in that finger - all the joints seem frozen. After the surgery I learned that the orthopedic surgeon that I consulted did not actually do the surgery - he let his intern do it as a training practice.


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## 911 (Sep 20, 2019)

debodun said:


> In 2005, I had a fall and broke the middle finger of my left hand. Good thing I am right handed. Even after surgery, it never healed properly and the finger is still bent and I have no mobility in that finger - all the joints seem frozen. After the surgery I learned that the orthopedic surgeon that I consulted did not actually do the surgery - he let his intern do it as a training practice.
> View attachment 76818


Sounds like a nerve issue. If the novice doctor didn’t damage the nerve, it may be able to be repaired.


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## 911 (Sep 20, 2019)

Personally, I never liked going to sleep for surgeries, which yesterday was number 14. Most of my surgeries have been injuries from playing sports. I did have appendicitis once, but the others were all sports related. 

I have been told by different Anesthesiologists that being put to sleep kills brain cells and the good Lord knows that I can’t afford to lose anymore of them.


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## Patnono (Sep 20, 2019)

debodun said:


> My 86-year-old friend of mine is experiencing excruciating knee pain to the point she is practically an invalid and it is causing her heart to fibrillate. She told me that her doctor said she is not a candidate for knee surgery. He also will not recommend a colonoscopy. I just wondered if the doctor's reticence could be due to her age and if there is an age cut-off for medical procedures.


Unfortunately they do, my aunt in her late 80's was refused to do gallbladder surgery because of her age. A friends husband had heart issues, they told her to take him home to die. I'm hearing they won't even treat cancer?  It's the insurance companies deciding this.


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## debodun (Sep 20, 2019)




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## win231 (Sep 20, 2019)

Patnono said:


> Unfortunately they do, my aunt in her late 80's was refused to do gallbladder surgery because of her age. A friends husband had heart issues, they told her to take him home to die. I'm hearing they won't even treat cancer?  It's the insurance companies deciding this.


With some situations, the risk/benefit has to be considered.  Re:  Treating cancer, every case is different.  An aggressive cancer requires more-aggressive treatment, & that treatment can (and has) killed patients.  You may recall when Mike Connors was diagnosed with Leukemia at age 91, there wasn't anything that could be done for him.  He died soon after diagnosis.  (I don't know if he was treated or not).
When my dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer, he was 74.  At first, I was surprised when his oncologist said "We're not going to treat him because he will probably outlive it & the treatment will ruin the quality of his life with no benefit."  He died at 88 from a fall.  In that case they were right.


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## Damaged Goods (Sep 29, 2019)

My primary no longer orders PSAs for guys over 70 unless their dads had prostate cancer.   Reasons given
1) Too many false positives resulting in unnecessary procedures and
2) If your PSAs were good up to 70, something other than prostate cancer is going to get you.

I suspect insurance cos. have put pressure on MDs in these regards.


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## JB in SC (Sep 29, 2019)

debodun said:


> In 2005, I had a fall and broke the middle finger of my left hand. Good thing I am right handed. Even after surgery, it never healed properly and the finger is still bent and I have no mobility in that finger - all the joints seem frozen. After the surgery I learned that the orthopedic surgeon that I consulted did not actually do the surgery - he let his intern do it as a training practice.
> View attachment 76818



The outcomes of hand surgery, regardless of who performed it, are not in the patients favor. I would never recommend anyone other than a hand specialist. The tendon attachments are complex and can make it feel like the joint is frozen. Have you seen another doctor for a second opinion?


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## jujube (Sep 29, 2019)

The doctor wanted the Spousal Equivalent's 95-year-old mother to have a Pap Smear and a Mammogram.  Really, Dr. Dude?  We declined.   At that point, female problems were the _least_ of her troubles. She died only a few months later.


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## JustBonee (Sep 29, 2019)

jujube said:


> The doctor wanted the Spousal Equivalent's 95-year-old mother to have a Pap Smear and a Mammogram.  Really, Dr. Dude?  We declined.   At that point, female problems were the _least_ of her troubles. She died only a few months later.



Crazy!


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## win231 (Sep 29, 2019)

jujube said:


> The doctor wanted the Spousal Equivalent's 95-year-old mother to have a Pap Smear and a Mammogram.  Really, Dr. Dude?  We declined.   At that point, female problems were the _least_ of her troubles. She died only a few months later.


Yup, why just let someone die when we can profit while they're still here?
My Veterinarian also suggested "complete lab tests for my 16-year old Lab (average life span for a Lab is 12 years).
I asked, "How much does it cost?"
"$600.00, but isn't he worth it? she asked."
"Of course he's worth it, but if you can guarantee that it will extend his quality years, I'll be glad to pay for it."
"Uh....well....I can't," she replied.
I said, "I didn't think so; you're just after $600.00 & using my love for my dog as a tool for profit."  Needless to say, I never saw her again.  But I did, however chuckle at the dirty look she gave me.


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## Patnono (Sep 29, 2019)

Damaged Goods said:


> My primary no longer orders PSAs for guys over 70 unless their dads had prostate cancer.   Reasons given
> 1) Too many false positives resulting in unnecessary procedures and
> 2) If your PSAs were good up to 70, something other than prostate cancer is going to get you.
> 
> I suspect insurance cos. have put pressure on MDs in these regards.



I believe it's absolutely true, it's about the bottom line.


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## debodun (Sep 29, 2019)

win231 said:


> Yup, why just let someone die when we can profit while they're still here?
> My Veterinarian also suggested "complete lab tests for my 16-year old Lab (average life span for a Lab is 12 years).
> I asked, "How much does it cost?"
> "$600.00, but isn't he worth it? she asked."


I hate when vets try to make you feel guilty about thinking twice in getting a lot of expensive tests and procedures for an older pet. I always tell people that they want to get as much money out of you before the animal goes to the Rainbow Bridge. My mom spent $2000 on one of her cats that was hit by a car. Even after that, the end result was the same - it passed anyway. I say let nature take its course and just make your pet as comfortable as possible. If it is in pain, please have it humanely euthanized.


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## Patnono (Sep 29, 2019)

debodun said:


> I hate when vets try to make you feel guilty about thinking twice in getting a lot of expensive tests and procedures for an older pet. I always tell people that they want to get as much money out of you before the animal goes to the Rainbow Bridge. My mom spent $2000 on one of her cats that was hit by a car. Even after that, the end result was the same - it passed anyway. I say let nature take its course and just make your pet as comfortable as possible. If it is in pain, please have it humanely euthanized.



My elderly mom Medicare doctors took advantage of it. Having her take all kinds of proceedures Diabetes when come to find out she didn't have it parkensons desease, brain scans there wasn't a need for it. And on and on


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## Lc jones (Sep 29, 2019)

911 said:


> I had a procedure done early yesterday morning. The Anesthesiologist told me that he would be using Propofol. My blood oxygen level was 98% going into surgery. I woke easily and was ready to leave in a half hour after awakening.
> 
> From what I have read, Propofol is the drug of choice for putting patients to sleep for a simple surgery. There are other drugs that are more potent that are used for longer surgeries.
> 
> Someday in the future, I would hope safer drugs would be developed to put patients asleep.


I was given Propofol for a surgery and it was an amazing anesthesia. It put me right out completely and then I immediately woke up afterwards with no side effects whatsoever and I felt great afterwards.


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## debodun (Sep 29, 2019)

General anesthetics usually make me nauseated afterwards. I had GE for my fibroid embolization and for setting my broken leg. I have no idea what they used and the doctors don't volunteer that information.


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## jujube (Sep 29, 2019)

For a couple of major surgeries, they gave me something called Versed before the heavy anesthesia.  Wow, they could sell that stuff on the corners!  I was wide awake, but I was on Cloud 9.  I was floating around, at peace with the world.  That's good stuff!


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## Kaila (Oct 7, 2019)

In my observations and experiences, it has depended on the particular surgery or procedure, and perhaps in some instances, the particular doctor. 


For colonoscopy, specifically, the guidelines that doctors generally go by, say that over a certain age (can't remember, maybe 80)
then the risks usually outweigh the benefits.  The complications of that procedure in particular, including possible bowel perforation, are more common, in older years than when younger, so it's thought best to avoid that, 
UNLESS there's some more pressing reason for it than family history.

Versed is used for multiple procedures,  and is pleasant, as you said, but while it also causes you to forget what happened,
the anesthesiologist told me there is recent info that it might exacerbate other memory problems long-term, if memory problems are at all a concern.  So i said, okay, and agreed to the suggested Propofol, for an outpatient surgery, and had no problems with it, in that setting.


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