# Why is ________  the answer to life's meaning for you?



## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Ive edited the thread title. is this better now?
Just fill in the blank.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

The short answer: my parents were Christian and very virtuous people. Now I think the love they gave me came from God. I would feel a traitor if I were anything else now. Christianity is in my blood. I finally came back to Jesus Christ 4 years ago. But this time I am trying to understand it better.


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## Pepper (Aug 22, 2019)

Why did you choose the General Discussion forum - "General everyday light-hearted discussions" over the Current News and Hot Topics threads - "Current events, social issues and news. *No politics please!"*

Petty question, I know.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Pepper said:


> Why did you choose the General Discussion forum - "General everyday light-hearted discussions" over the Current News and Hot Topics threads - "Current events, social issues and news. *No politics please!"*
> 
> Petty question, I know.


as I said. I only recently realised we could start Christian themed threads. So where should it go? Personally I don't care where it goes. As long as I don't have to have it on my diary thread.
Possibly you are being unfair? I don't know . But we have had serious topics on this subforum before but no one complained then.


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## Rosemarie (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac....I think your parents were just warm, loving people...nothing to do with being Christians.
The truth is that people use Christianity in different ways. For many, Jesus is a prop...the friend they can depend on. They don't put his teaching into practise. Those people are not true  Christians. I'm sure we all know people who regard themselves as good Christians simply because they attend church every week. They think that is enough.


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## StarSong (Aug 22, 2019)

Your title presupposes that Christianity is indeed the answer to life's meaning for all on SF.  The arrogance of your subject line, "Why is Christianity the answer to life's meaning for you?" is what turns many off about Christians.

There are undoubtedly hundreds of Christian forums on the web - your topic would be more appropriately posed on one of them. SeniorForums has active members of various faiths, not all of whom welcome proselytizing.


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## Rosemarie (Aug 22, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Your title presupposes that Christianity is indeed the answer to life's meaning for all on SF.  That arrogance of your subject line, "Why is Christianity the answer to life's meaning for you?" is what turns many off about Christians.
> 
> There are undoubtedly hundreds of Christian forums on the web - your topic would be more appropriately posed on one of them. SeniorForums has active members of various faiths, not all of whom welcome proselytizing.


Perhaps we need a section entitled..'For Christians only'.....but then what is a Christian?


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Rosemarie said:


> hypochondriac....I think your parents were just warm, loving people...nothing to do with being Christians.
> The truth is that people use Christianity in different ways. For many, Jesus is a prop...the friend they can depend on. They don't put his teaching into practise. Those people are not true  Christians. I'm sure we all know people who regard themselves as good Christians simply because they attend church every week. They think that is enough.


That is your opinion Rosemarie and I can see why you might say it. I might have said something similar before I became Christian again. And there are surely loving parents who are non Christian. of course. Im not that close minded or stupid.
But from my study and reading and possibly "grace" (which some of you think it is baloney perhaps,) that God is the source of all love on earth. So any love that parents (Christian or non Christian) have, comes from God. Humans don't create their own love.
And hey rose, I attend Church every week and Im no hypo crite. I ma hypo chondriac!


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## Lc jones (Aug 22, 2019)

I’d love a discussion in this thread I’m a Christian recently  brought back to the faith and it saved my life! We would need to have one of the moderators let us know what is allowed thanks hypo for bringing this to the forefront!!


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## Pepper (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> Possibly you are being unfair? I don't know . But we have had serious topics on this subforum before but no one complained then.



Unfair?  That's a leap.  As I said, maybe petty, but why unfair?  Why do you think it is a complaint about your subject matter?


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Your title presupposes that Christianity is indeed the answer to life's meaning for all on SF.


No it means Christians will give their testimony and you can respond. Im calling Christians on here to post if they want to. You don't have to.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Lc jones said:


> I’d love a discussion in this thread I’m a Christian recently  brought back to the faith and it saved my life! We would need to have one of the moderators let us know what is allowed thanks hypo for bringing this to the forefront!!


well its already bringing over reactions as I predicted. maybe it will settle down gradually.


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## Rosemarie (Aug 22, 2019)

Yes, I see what you're getting at. However, there are other faiths which teach  love and compassion, not just Christianity. So you think love comes from 'God', whether you are Christian or not? If there is a 'God', then he is God of everyone, not just Christians.


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## StarSong (Aug 22, 2019)

Rosemarie said:


> Perhaps we need a section entitled..'For Christians only'.....but then what is a Christian?


Or Religious Discussion Only.  There are Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, and I don't know what-all else participating on this forum.


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## Pepper (Aug 22, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Or Religious Discussion Only.  There are Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, and I don't know what-all else participating on this forum.


Religious discussion is very similar, if not the same, as Political discussion.  Why not something like Philosophy with a subtitle of Personal?


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## Gary O' (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> No it means Christians will give their testimony


Yes, I have a testimony

I'll put some words together in a bit

I appreciate this effort, hypo


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Or Religious Discussion Only.  There are Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, and I don't know what-all else participating on this forum.


Yes I agree that would be a good idea. yet Im sure posters such as yourself would be curious enough to enter those discussions. too... no?


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Lc jones said:


> we would need to have one of the moderators let us know what is allowed


Radish Rose assured me it was allowed. but shes not a mod. eh


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## StarSong (Aug 22, 2019)

Probably not.  If this turns into a religious forum I'll likely find myself spending less and less time here.


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## Rosemarie (Aug 22, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Probably not.  If this turns into a religious forum I'll likely find myself spending less and less time here.


One thread does not a forum make.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Probably not.  If this turns into a religious forum I'll likely find myself spending less and less time here.


I have no intention personally of turning this forum into a Christian one. For one thing it gets boring talking about Christianity all the time. But I feel a need to express myself, discuss more than debate a few Christian related topics. There seems to be maybe 3 or 4 of us at most? I don't know. Not much of a political force to be honest. out of about 50 members on here so far.
For now there seems some objection to having it on General Discussions. Fair enough. lets work on one problem at a time.


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## Judycat (Aug 22, 2019)

I found Christian forums tend to collapse into arguments over fundamental beliefs. I avoid them.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

but I digress.....
back to the question..
I tried Buddhism for a while. the meditation is excellent.  (lived in Japan for a number of years)it  really can calm your mind. I had trouble with some of the tenets like reincarnation. Buddhism is probably my second fave religion because it can help those of us who suffer stress and anxiety.
I of course have a lot of respect for the Jewish religion. They have trouble with the messiah concept. Its a shame really. I need to read up more on that. Culturally it would be weird for me to suddenly embrace Islam though I do respect their prayer life. They are very diligent .
The more I study Christianity I realise there is so much more to learn. So much depth. So many interpretations of scripture but I like that. makes it more interesting. Recently I have been looking at how we see God. Do we see Him as a petty tyrant? seeking payback for our naughty sins? or do we see Him as someone who wants only the best for us. This topic is crucial to our faith. because if we see God as a mainly vengeful punishing God, we will have truly strange faith that is not helping anyone including ourselves. We will be a witness of fear and retribution and that is the devil's domain. God for me represents self-acceptance, vulnerability and being authentic no matter what the cost.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

current news and hot topics eh? oh well I guess anywhere will do


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## Rosemarie (Aug 22, 2019)

I have a problem with the 'God' of the Old testament and the Father that Jesus spoke of. They don't seem to be the same person.


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## Gary O' (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> Christians will give their testimony



For me, it’s been pretty hard line

I’ve had Christians in my face for as long as I can remember

Pisses me off

Finally I researched it

Not the sappy ethereal crap

Just proving or disproving the validity of a Christian god

I did it

From the 2300 day prophesy of Daniel to Revelations

Still, none of it phased me

Kinda bothered me…..because of, well, me

I wanted to play

I played

Then got sick of playing

Empty

Then I prayed

I mean, since there’s a god…..

He…….changed my heart

Oh, I’m still the ol’ sinner I always was

But, I no longer wanna be

So

I pray daily

Sometimes hourly

And I read

About Him

How he died *thee* death

My death

Not like some hero, giving his life for his mates

No, the eternal one

Separating Him from the Father

The One He had from no beginning

Can’t imagine that agony

Beings of love….like no man knows

The Father

Turning His back

On His Son

Forever and ever

His Son, bearing the weight of our miserable sins

Yet innocent

Yet willingly



…for me



Shit

It breaks my heart like nothing else



I’ll never push any of this on anyone

That would be the antithesis of what Christianity is all about

But

I you ask

I’ll tell you what I know

…and it’s the greatest thing I’ll ever have or know


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## Rosemarie (Aug 22, 2019)

That idea that Jesus died for our sins is a mistake, invented by the Christian church. He died to prove that death is not the end of our existence. He was resurrected to show that we live on after death. This is why it's so important to live a good life because our eternal souls are affected by our deeds.


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## fmdog44 (Aug 22, 2019)

Cut this thread. Religion is not a good avenues for internet discussion. No politics? No religion.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> Cut this thread. Religion is not a good avenues for internet discussion. No politics? No religion.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion sir. God Bless you.


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## Rosemarie (Aug 22, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> Cut this thread. Religion is not a good avenues for internet discussion. No politics? No religion.


The title of the thread is there for all to see and CHOOSE whether to participate. Don't like it? Don't join in!


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Rosemarie said:


> The title of the thread is there for all to see and CHOOSE whether to participate. Don't like it? Don't join in!


Do I really deserve this support? Thanks anyway Rose.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 22, 2019)

Politics have been banned on this forum, however religious threads are still permitted, although discouraged.  Politics or religion can rarely be discussed in a civil manner.  It's true that this is _not _a religious forum, and there will be no specific forums here dedicated to religion. 

 Most religious threads have had to be closed, and it seems that topic can never be discussed without being disrespectful to those with varying beliefs, and resorting to name calling or rude responses....which are _never _welcome on this board.  

Pepper is correct in saying that General Discussions is the place for light-hearted conversations, serious topics should be posted in Current News and Hot Topics.  We ask that members look at the various forums on the homepage, and post where appropriate. It makes using, reading and searching topics so much easier if everything isn't dumped into General Discussions.

 Moderation is voluntary and not full time, and our efforts shouldn't have to focus on moving threads around, should really only be necessary to remove things like spam, offensive content or problem posters.  

Thanks to everyone for your cooperation.

SeaBreeze
Admin_

_


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

I think Religion is slightly better than politics to discuss. I mean you either believe or you don't. No amount of logical argument is going to either convert or atheise. Its just a different perspective.


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## Pepper (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> I think Religion is slightly better than politics to discuss. *I mean you either believe or you don't.*


What about Agnostics?  They sometimes believe and sometimes don't.  Sometimes.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> Politics have been banned on this forum, however religious threads are still permitted, although discouraged.  Politics or religion can rarely be discussed in a civil manner.  It's true that this is _not _a religious forum, and there will be no specific forums here dedicated to religion.
> 
> Most religious threads have had to be closed, and it seems that topic can never be discussed without being disrespectful to those with varying beliefs, and resorting to name calling or rude responses....which are _never _welcome on this board.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks seabreeze. I should have discussed it with you first before posting. I will make this my last thread on Christianity. Maybe you should close it now. I had my doubts actually. just another poster suggested I could do it, so I tried. Ok back to our secular lives.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> I think Religion is slightly better than politics to discuss. I mean you either believe or you don't. No amount of logical argument is going to either convert or atheise. Its just a different perspective.



It should be, but in our experience of 7+ years on this forum, religion has never been able to be discussed in a civil manner.  Religion is not banned here, that would be a decision by Matrix if it did ever happen.  This thread doesn't need to be locked at this time.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> It should be, but in our experience of 7+ years on this forum, religion has never been able to be discussed in a civil manner.  Religion is not banned here, that would be a decision by Matrix if it did ever happen.  This thread doesn't need to be locked at this time.


In America politics and religion are very interrelated. I noticed that on another forum. Your politics often informs your religious view but not always. Still UK and Australia is a problem too. I think you made your point very well Seabreeze. I didn't come on here to convert everyone to Christianity or bore them to death. Thanks again.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

back to life
back to reality


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## norman (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> Ok thanks seabreeze. I should have discussed it with you first before posting. I will make this my last thread on Christianity. Maybe you should close it now. I had my doubts actually. just another poster suggested I could do it, so I tried. Ok back to our secular lives.


Most persons that read or post are just  individual that like plain old simple words, if you are going to use words such as ''secular'' just to name one as you have used others that I had to get out my Funk & Wagnall again just in case you are using an obscenity.  lol


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## Lc jones (Aug 22, 2019)

I’d love to discuss Christianity as I’m a Christian but it does tend to get ugly at times for whatever reason it’s too bad too because I just love discussion as long as it’s respectful I guess I live in a fantasy world LOL!


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## fuzzybuddy (Aug 22, 2019)

"I have no intention personally of turning this forum into a Christian one. "
Then why ask the question, if you didn't want a response. As an atheist, I don't appreciate threads involving working through ones views on Christianity as though it were some sort of right.


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## Sunny (Aug 22, 2019)

I think this is the wrong forum for those who want to discuss Christianity, for the reasons that several others have already stated. I especially agree with StarSong. Many of us here are not Christians and do not wish to have someone else's religion imposed on us. 

Maybe if there was a particular topic (other than General Discussions) devoted to the subject, it could work, as the rest of us could just avoid it. Hypochondriac, if you are puzzled by this, imagine how you would feel if someone started a thread about how the Wiccan religion (worship of witches) is the answer to life's meaning for us. The question implies that everyone here finds "life's meaning" in that religion. You'd probably find it offensive, right? I know I would.

I would personally rather see a nice juicy political discussion any day. Religion cuts too close to our early upbringing, and which ideas, beliefs, and nonbeliefs were taught to us as children. It is very easy to offend people.


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## Sassycakes (Aug 22, 2019)

I am a Christian and I believe in my religion. I also believe other people have a right to believe what they want. Years ago my friend married a man of a different religion than mine. I loved when we discussed our different beliefs. Another friend of mine would be really upset with me because she thought our faith was the only true one. I told her I saw nothing wrong with having a discussion on all religions. She stopped talking to me. I have always liked hearing other peoples views on religion.


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## Trade (Aug 22, 2019)

"Why is Christianity the answer to life's meaning for you?"

It isn't. 

Now that wasn't so hard was it?


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## Capt Lightning (Aug 22, 2019)

As a secular humanist, Christianity has no relevance for me.  We are all just stardust.


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## norman (Aug 22, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> "I have no intention personally of turning this forum into a Christian one. "
> Then why ask the question, if you didn't want a response. As an atheist, I don't appreciate threads involving working through ones views on Christianity as though it were some sort of right.





Capt Lightning said:


> As a secular humanist, Christianity has no relevance for me.  We are all just stardust.





Capt Lightning said:


> As a secular humanist, Christianity has no relevance for me.  We are all just stardust.


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## Rosemarie (Aug 22, 2019)

Lc jones said:


> I’d love to discuss Christianity as I’m a Christian but it does tend to get ugly at times for whatever reason it’s too bad too because I just love discussion as long as it’s respectful I guess I live in a fantasy world LOL!


I see no reason why we can't discuss religion without it becoming unpleasant. I'm genuinely interested in hearing how others feel, and what part their beliefs play in their lives. Sadly, though, there are always those who want to argue.  It's a pity that they have to spoil things for the genuine ones.


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## Marie5656 (Aug 22, 2019)

My parents raised me in the Catholic church. With my Italian/Polish heritage it was a given
I walked away soon as I could.  I now consider myself Christian, but far from conservative.  I refuse to no accept people who have different lives or beliefs or values. I now attend a very progressive,  all are welcome Baptist church. They turn no one away


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## Lc jones (Aug 22, 2019)

Lc jones said:


> I’d love to discuss Christianity as I’m a Christian but it does tend to get ugly at times for whatever reason it’s too bad too because I just love discussion as long as it’s respectful I guess I live in a fantasy world LOL!





Rosemarie said:


> I see no reason why we can't discuss religion without it becoming unpleasant. I'm genuinely interested in hearing how others feel, and what part their beliefs play in their lives. Sadly, though, there are always those who want to argue.  It's a pity that they have to spoil things for the genuine ones.



 I respect others rights to believe in what they believe in,  but I expect the same respect and usually I’m disappointed.  I’m not too sure what happened to respectful discourse.


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## norman (Aug 22, 2019)

I have never mention my religious beliefs to anyone unless asked nor ask another person about theirs, but when I tell some that I was once a member of the Ancient Astronaut Society almost every time I was asked if I  am a Atheist.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Then why ask the question, if you didn't want a response.


At the risk of repeating myself, I don't need everyone to respond. You are free to start a thread on atheism. And I wont be offended nor will I feel the need to post on it.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Sunny said:


> how you would feel if someone started a thread about how the Wiccan religion (worship of witches) is the answer to life's meaning for us.


do you think that is a fair analogy? I knew there were at least 5 members on here who are Christian. I knew there would be a response. Now some of you have taken personal umbrage to this  by denouncing the thread, which is a kind of  political statement in itself. Suppressing   free speech. But Im not intending to inflame by saying that. In fact Im happy to leave this forum, if you think I am a "troublemaker".
and no I wouldn't take offence anyway.. free speech is healthy in my opinion.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Trade said:


> "Why is Christianity the answer to life's meaning for you?"
> 
> It isn't.
> 
> Now that wasn't so hard was it?


See. Everyone is free to respond like this. I don't take personal offence. And I hope trade doesn't take offence by me starting the thread. If it reinforces his dislike of Christianity then so be it.


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## Pepper (Aug 22, 2019)

I disagree that your free speech was limited.  This thread still exists and was not taken down.
"But Im not intending to inflame by saying that."  Huh?  Didn't you just say it?  Besides, Free Speech means No Government Interference or Punishment for speech.  ONLY the government, no other entity.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> But I feel a need to express myself, discuss more than debate a few Christian related topics. There seems to be maybe 3 or 4 of us at most? I don't know.



This new forum software allows someone to start a Conversation (private message) with another member, and also invite several others to join in the conversation.  So, if you want to have a discussion with other Christians for example, you can start with someone you know is like-minded and go from there.

I've never used the new multiple member Conversation before, but it seems straightforward.  On the right side it asks if you want to invite another member into the conversation.  I was raised Catholic, but I no longer participate in any organized religion, so I personally wouldn't be interested in that type of chat.

Just a suggestion if you wanted another option to speak with like-minded members and not have anyone not interested in the subject interrupting in a negative way.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Sassycakes said:


> I loved when we discussed our different beliefs.


I agree. For me personally, it is part of getting to know a person. I wont judge them if they are Christian or not. I mean as we get older and closer to death, it is only natural to wonder about an afterlife for example. From my pov, having a next life to look forward adds optimism to my outlook. But that's just how I look at things. I don't care if others don't hold that pov.


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## RadishRose (Aug 22, 2019)

If people would just behave like adults and with good manners there should be no problem.

After I came to dislike the politics thread for the name calling and childishness, I simply stayed out of it.  Don't read the thread if you don't like it.

How hard is that?


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> I've never used the new multiple member Conversation before, but it seems straightforward.


thanks. I was just thinking about that a few hours ago. If we could fit say 5 or even 6 people in private messaging that would be great.


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## RadishRose (Aug 22, 2019)

To answer the OP,

"Why is Christianity the answer to life's meaning for you?" I'm not sure that it is. JMO.


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2019)

Rose, we posted at the same time so this is not a reply and not directed at you...

I see a thread title that clearly says "Why IS Christianity the Answer to Life's Meaning for You?" So to stay on-topic the discussion is for those who want to share why Christianity IS the answer to life's meaning for them personally...right? and for questions related to that...NOT for debate as to why it is NOT the answer, or why this thread does NOT belong here. It was clearly created for thoughtful sharing of personal experiences.

So anyone who thinks that Christianity is not the answer to Life's meaning for them personally really shouldn't be participating unless they have good questions and sincerely want answers. Questions from non-believers make a more interesting thread as opposed to only having believers, but naysayers aren't helpful.


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 22, 2019)

I hope that they don't ban threads on religion these threads help me to get a better understanding of the members. 

I didn't choose Christianity it was chosen for me by my family/ancestors and I accepted it.

What I haven't accepted is organized religion/church and I probably never will.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

I think Lara might be better at this than me.  More assertive?


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Aunt Bea said:


> I hope that they don't ban threads on religion these threads help me to get a better understanding of the members.
> 
> I didn't choose Christianity it was chosen for me by my family/ancestors and I accepted it.
> 
> What I haven't accepted is organized religion/church and I probably never will.


AB. looks like we are going underground. All very mysterious.   I can add you to the private messaging group if you wish.


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## RadishRose (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> Ok thanks seabreeze. I should have discussed it with you first before posting. I will make this my last thread on Christianity. Maybe you should close it now. I had my doubts actually. just another poster suggested I could do it, so I tried. Ok back to our secular lives.


Yes it was me. There is no rule against it. But it looks like if people want to argue, that will end.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Aunt Bea said:


> these threads help me to get a better understanding of the members.


that's exactly right. then you know exactly who you are talking to ….....


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2019)

Aunt Bea, one can be a Christian and not enter into organized religion aka church if that's what you mean by organized religion. I'm just a Bible believer right now but I do believe fellowship with other Christians is God's will.


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> I think Lara might be better at this than me.  More assertive?


I'm more assertive than you? God help me


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## Trade (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> See. Everyone is free to respond like this. I don't take personal offence. And I hope trade doesn't take offence by me starting the thread. If it reinforces his dislike of Christianity then so be it.



I'm not one of those militant Atheists. I don't give a rat's ass if they put a manger scene on the courthouse lawn at Christmas time.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Trade said:


> I'm not one of those militant Atheists. I don't give a rat's ass if they put a manger scene on the courthouse lawn at Christmas time.


Or we have to say "Merry Higher Power" to each other at Christmas time.


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## Trade (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> Or we have to say "Merry Higher Power" to each other at Christmas time.



Militant Atheists annoy me as much as militant Christians. They make a religion out of their Atheism.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

And by the way.. .
if Sunny wants to start a thread on Wican (s) Im certainly not going to object. Would be interesting for sure.
Go for it.


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## Gary O' (Aug 22, 2019)

Trade said:


> Militant Atheists annoy me as much as militant Christians. They make a religion out of their Atheism


Militant or pushy anyone riles me if they're in my face
I think the Taoists are rather remarkable in that regard 
The ones I've come to know leave their beliefs within themselves...just live it


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## fuzzybuddy (Aug 22, 2019)

Do you really believe that this is the correct vehicle to be having a heartfelt panel on the personal effects of Christianity on one? There is a special section of this forum devoted to such a question and there are groups, which one may use, free. So what is it that requires you to address your inner most religious beliefs in this particular  secular forum? Not everybody in the world is a Christian,  nor is the dynamics of the Christian religion a subject many others are enthralled by. I am an atheist and I am not particularly thrilled to be proselytized. We have had similar discussions about preaching Christianity in this forum. And I have been told by good Christians," tough, you don't like it don't read it". So, please explain why it is so imperative that you preach Christianity in this section of the forum? There are other sections forum one may use for evangelizing, why not use them? What gives you the right to preach Christianity to others, who steadfastly believe in their own faiths. Isn't it disrespect to say in a public forum that if you don't like all the Christianity,-tough,  don't read. Don't participate. We are Christians and we don't care what you think.


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## Warrigal (Aug 22, 2019)

Fuzzy, I have not been able to find the old groups section of the forum since the move. Have you?


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## RadishRose (Aug 22, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Do you really believe that this is the correct vehicle to be having a heartfelt panel on the personal effects of Christianity on one? There is a special section of this forum devoted to such a question and there are groups, which one may use, free. So what is it that requires you to address your inner most religious beliefs in this particular  secular forum? Not everybody in the world is a Christian,  nor is the dynamics of the Christian religion a subject many others are enthralled by. I am an atheist and I am not particularly thrilled to be proselytized. We have had similar discussions about preaching Christianity in this forum. And I have been told by good Christians," tough, you don't like it don't read it". So, please explain why it is so imperative that you preach Christianity in this section of the forum? There are other sections forum one may use for evangelizing, why not use them? What gives you the right to preach Christianity to others, who steadfastly believe in their own faiths. Isn't it disrespect to say in a public forum that if you don't like all the Christianity, tough, l don't read. Don't participate. We are Christians and we don't care what you think.


I cannot see for the life of me, why you care, You don't have to read it!
I do not see any proselytizing going on.
Read something else
I don't like sports, so I don't go there.
Geeze!


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Do you really believe that this is the correct vehicle to be having a heartfelt panel on the personal effects of Christianity on one? There is a special section of this forum devoted to such a question and there are groups, which one may use, free. So what is it that requires you to address your inner most religious beliefs in this particular  secular forum? Not everybody in the world is a Christian,  nor is the dynamics of the Christian religion a subject many others are enthralled by. I am an atheist and I am not particularly thrilled to be proselytized. We have had similar discussions about preaching Christianity in this forum. And I have been told by good Christians," tough, you don't like it don't read it". So, please explain why it is so imperative that you preach Christianity in this section of the forum? There are other sections forum one may use for evangelizing, why not use them? What gives you the right to preach Christianity to others, who steadfastly believe in their own faiths. Isn't it disrespect to say in a public forum that if you don't like all the Christianity,-tough,  don't read. Don't participate. We are Christians and we don't care what you think.


because its not evangelising. simple as that.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> I cannot see for the life of me, why you care, You don't have to read it!
> I do not see any proselytizing going on.
> Read something else
> I don't like sports, so I don't go there.
> Geeze!


i think its more a sneaky political tactic to force Christians underground. Demonising those who hold a different world view. am I going to object to an atheist thread? of course not.


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## Jandante (Aug 22, 2019)

Why is gratitude the answer-to-lifes-meaning-for-me. 
Yes gratitude and in everything give thanks.  e.g I gave thanks that I had treatment for cancer and wasn't sitting under a tree in Africa with no hope.  Always feeling grateful for life etc means I am contented every day.  Yes I am a Christian.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

nice answer
now i wish i had started the thread like this. oh well.


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## RadishRose (Aug 22, 2019)

Jandante said:


> Why is gratitude the answer-to-lifes-meaning-for-me.
> Yes gratitude and in everything give thanks.  e.g I gave thanks that I had treatment for cancer and wasn't sitting under a tree in Africa with no hope.  Always feeling grateful for life etc means I am contented every day.  Yes I am a Christian.


I like that, gratitude. I admit I forget to be grateful sometimes.


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## RadishRose (Aug 22, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> nice answer
> now i wish i had started the thread like this. oh well.


You've done nothing wrong.


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## Llynn (Aug 22, 2019)

Science. Because their discoveries are real, not mumbo jumbo written by superstitious people thousands of years ago.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Llynn said:


> Science. Because their discoveries are real, not mumbo jumbo written by superstitious people thousands of years ago.


The enlightenment was an important era for science and scientists.


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## Warrigal (Aug 22, 2019)

Llynn said:


> Science. Because their discoveries are real, not mumbo jumbo written by superstitious people thousands of years ago.


And yet, this woman who holds  a BSc, hard earned in her middle years, came to faith more that 40 years ago and remains committed to the ideals laid out in the four gospels. She still abhors superstition as she has done all of her life. Go figure. What could possibly explain that?


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> And yet, this woman who holds  a BSc, hard earned in her middle years, came to faith more that 40 years ago and remains committed to the ideals laid out in the four gospels. She still abhors superstition as she has done all of her life. Go figure. What could possibly explain that?


is this woman famous? or have I missed something?


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## Warrigal (Aug 22, 2019)

This woman is me. I only speak from my own experience and perspective on matters of faith.


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## Peachy (Aug 22, 2019)

*Why is ________ the answer to life's meaning for you?*
I would fill in the "blank" with BEING RESPECTFUL TO ALL
because we never know what others have experienced in life and our actions DO reflect what we hold in our heart.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 22, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> This woman is me. I only speak from my own experience and perspective on matters of faith.


You threw a good curve ball for those who laugh Christianity off as "mumbo jumbo".


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## Warrigal (Aug 22, 2019)

At one time that was me too but I was a bit more respectful of people who followed their religion, even if I didn't understand why they did. I just thought they were rather queer or deluded. Now I am one of them.

And for the record, no-one got into my ear and brainwashed me. I avoided evangelists like the plague.


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## Peachy (Aug 22, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> At one time that was me too but I was a bit more respectful of people who followed their religion, even if I didn't understand why they did. I just thought they were rather queer or deluded. Now I am one of them.
> 
> And for the record, no-one got into my ear and brainwashed me. I avoided evangelists like the plague.


My post was with regards to respect in all situations. (I didn't have your theme in mind.) I just believe we earn respect by giving it.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 22, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> Fuzzy, I have not been able to find the old groups section of the forum since the move. Have you?


I don't think the new forum software supports groups.


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## Warrigal (Aug 22, 2019)

Thanks, Seabreeze. 

It does make it difficult to introduce serious topics of the religion and ethics category.


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## Llynn (Aug 22, 2019)

I'm sorry, mumbo jumbo was an unfortunate choice of words on my part. I know better . I don't consider a following comment to be a "curve ball" either.

I don't laugh at anyone's faith. Faith is just that.....it can't be proven or disproven. It is a belief that fills a need for the person expressing faith.  I was simply filling in the blank and answering why for myself only. I admit there are more than a few scientists who are believers. There are an equal or greater number who are non believers, Carl Sagan comes to mind as an example.
Every religion ever established has claimed to be the one true faith. Their followers had faith that claim was true. They can't all be right.

please continue with your belief in revealed religion. I won't bother you. In turn please allow me to study the latest discoveries in quantum mechanics and astrophysics .when I look at the night sky I am in awe and I want to know more facts about how it came to be. I don't buy that a transient species living on a planet in a minor solar system on the edge of an unremarkable galaxy, one of billions in the universe is the sole focus of why anything exists.


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## Warrigal (Aug 22, 2019)

Llynn said:


> I'm sorry, mumbo jumbo was an unfortunate choice of words on my part. I know better . I don't consider a following comment to be a "curve ball" either.
> 
> I don't laugh at anyone's faith. Faith is just that.....it can't be proven or disproven. It is a belief that fills a need for the person expressing faith.  I was simply filling in the blank and answering why for myself only. I admit there are more than a few scientists who are believers. There are an equal or greater number who are non believers, Carl Sagan comes to mind as an example.
> Every religion ever established has claimed to be the one true faith. Their followers had faith that claim was true. They can't all be right.
> ...


We are more alike than you realise. You raise big questions that exercise my mind too but my religious faith doesn't hinge on any of them. 

At this stage of my life I am more focused on the question reportedly asked of Jesus by a scholar of the Jewish law. He asked "Who is my neighbour?" Jesus answered him by telling the story of the Good Samaritan. I have come to understand that everyone alive is my neighbour and that I have some responsibility for their welfare. I take this teaching very seriously.  I am just one person but I do what I can.


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## Capt Lightning (Aug 23, 2019)

I don't believe in a 'God' and therefore Jesus was not the 'son of  God'.  This does not mean that Jesus the man, is not worthy of consideration.  He is reputed to have taught by the use of stories, many aspects of life that are still relevant today, but I don't think that one can rationally take the Bible literally.  While I try lo live a "good" life  with what some might  call "Christian" values,  I regard these as  Humanist traits.   

Like Llynn, I prefer to seek out facts and science is gradually revealing them.  The universe is (at best estimate) 13.8 Billion years old.  We can't just expect to find out everything in a few days or years.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

Capt Lightning said:


> but I don't think that one can rationally take the Bible literally.


Absolutely agree with that. I am more interested in spiritual truths than actual historical facts anyway. Though I have to admit some core historical facts occurred.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

Llynn said:


> I don't consider a following comment to be a "curve ball" either.


my apologies. I hope I wasn't too offensive there.


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## Sunny (Aug 23, 2019)

I like Peachy's suggestion. Just ask, "Why is _____" and let everyone fill in their own blank.

Hypo, you are being desparately "cute" with your suggestion that I start a thread about the Wiccan religion. Surely, you couldn't have misunderstood what I was saying to that extent?  But in case that was a sincere suggestion, let me assure you that I am not a witch, there are no witches, none with supernatural powers, anyway, and I was using that lunatic fringe cult as an example to make a point.

If you had worded this thread, "Is Christianity the answer to life's meaning for you?"  there probably would have been a much more friendly discussion here.  Just the word "Why?"  at the beginning changed the entire meaning of the question, and assumed that everyone here is a devout Christian. And that's what got so many people riled up.


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## JimW (Aug 23, 2019)

Trade said:


> I'm not one of those militant Atheists. I don't give a rat's ass if they put a manger scene on the courthouse lawn at Christmas time.



We share the same thoughts in this regard.


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## fmdog44 (Aug 23, 2019)

Silly thread


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## toffee (Aug 23, 2019)

dont the answer there ' all I know is your here' get on with it guys !!!!


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## Rosemarie (Aug 23, 2019)

Sunny said:


> I like Peachy's suggestion. Just ask, "Why is _____" and let everyone fill in their own blank.
> 
> Hypo, you are being desparately "cute" with your suggestion that I start a thread about the Wiccan religion. Surely, you couldn't have misunderstood what I was saying to that extent?  But in case that was a sincere suggestion, let me assure you that I am not a witch, there are no witches, none with supernatural powers, anyway, and I was using that lunatic fringe cult as an example to make a point.
> 
> If you had worded this thread, "Is Christianity the answer to life's meaning for you?"  there probably would have been a much more friendly discussion here.  Just the word "Why?"  at the beginning changed the entire meaning of the question, and assumed that everyone here is a devout Christian. And that's what got so many people riled up.


Yes, that's a good point. The original thread pre-supposes that everyone on here is Christian, which may not be the case.
As for Wicca...it has one rule..'Do as you wish but harm none'...a good tenet for us all to live by.


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## fuzzybuddy (Aug 23, 2019)

Again, why is it that some feel the need to interject their  personal religious convictions into this forum?   We are not talking about  a discussion of religion, but ones personal views on Christianity . From the posts, most members seem to feel that is an afront to their own religious beliefs. Clearly this is not a topic most enjoy, so again WHY is it that some have the compulsion to air your personal religious convictions in this setting? The title of the thread is there for all to see and CHOOSE whether to participate. Don't like it? Don't join in!". Some disregard the feelings of others, proselytize about their religion, and then  disrespected others, by saying, the hell with you, don't  read it. Get lost.  Posting ones' personal religious convictions in this type of forum are statements of insensitivity and disrespect to others.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

Sunny said:


> And that's what got so many people riled up.


some people are addicted to drama


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> Silly thread


God Bless you sir. Just for posting. Your interest is always appreciated.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Clearly this is not a topic most enjoy


100 posts? yeah most of them are mine so I cant get too full of myself.   There is an interest here whether you like it or not. And a need as well. Perhaps you need a different focus besides minority Christians.


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## Pepper (Aug 23, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> 100 posts? yeah most of them are mine so I cant get too full of myself.   There is an interest here whether you like it or not. *And a need as well.* Perhaps you need a different focus besides minority Christians.


*And a need as well. *There you go, there is your proselytizing in a nutshell. 

Disappointing thread as I think of you as a very clever, well balanced man with many interests. Sad to see you might be enjoying feeling victimized, "thrown to the lions", defending your beliefs.  Also laughable, as if the entire Western culture isn't Christian anyway.  In our mutual Western societies, Christians are the majority, not the minority and have no valid reason to feel picked on, unless they're looking to feel that way.

In four months, I'll make sure to wish you a "Merry Christmas" not that hostile "Happy Holidays."


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

no theres a need for Christians to feel community here with each other; otherwise they feel as if they have to stay in the closet. just like the gay community had to.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

Pepper said:


> *And a need as well. *There you go, there is your proselytizing in a nutshell.
> 
> Disappointing thread as I think of you as a very clever, well balanced man with many interests. Sad to see you might be enjoying feeling victimized, "thrown to the lions", defending your beliefs.  Also laughable, as if the entire Western culture isn't Christian anyway.  In our mutual Western societies, Christians are the majority, not the minority and have no valid reason to feel picked on, unless they're looking to feel that way.
> 
> In four months, I'll make sure to wish you a "Merry Christmas" not that hostile "Happy Holidays."


you seem to have strong emotions on the issue. you want me further humiliated?


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> Cut this thread. Religion is not a good avenues for internet discussion. No politics? No religion.


id like to but Im not a mod.
thanks for your input though.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

and when the thread is finally cut,
you can enjoy your victory. 
but will you really be happy?


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2019)

I seeek the Feminine face of the Divine. As my son so eloquently put it, “I am not looking for a vengeful Sky Daddy.” I believe he referenced some of the more strident fundamentalist teachings.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> I seeek the Feminine face of the Divine. As my son so eloquently put it, “I am not looking for a vengeful Sky Daddy.” I believe he referenced some of the more strident fundamentalist teachings.


ok. thas another perspective. all perspectives welcome.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

here's a meaning of *prosletyse* from the net.
_convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another._
Now according to some people I have been trying to attract more Christians to the fold.
At worst I was trying to connect with other existing Christians on this forum. But really I was just taking a chance with a Christian themed thread. I start a lot of threads as you know. I was running low on ideas. I was told that I was allowed to start one so I did. Now I am getting  static from people who have a beef with Christianity. Which intrigues me. Maybe they had a really hard time when they were a child. I can understand if someone was raised in a "Bible Bashing" family. No one should be force fed something they don't like or understand. The Christians who threaten Hell and Damnation are to be condemned themselves. They do no service to "real" Christians who try to live the Gospel.
I have a psychological  question for those who hate Christianity on this forum. What is it in your experience that turned you off it? Why the level of animosity? Do you feel threatened politically by Christians getting more political power in America? is that it? Ok well we haven't quite reached that level in Australia. But we are catching up. it is mainly political power isn't it. You don't want Christians running the country. Fair enough. Separation of Church and State. I get that one. But do we need to transfer that to this forum? With just one thread? Nip it in the bud mentality? Oh ok. I see. Well you will get your way then. As long as I understand where you are coming from.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 23, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> “I am not looking for a vengeful Sky Daddy.”


Our image of God is so important isn't it. If we have that kind of image of God, then it is very hard to be a happy Christian or person for that matter . If God was female I could live with that, if I got used to it. That statement 'vengeful Skydaddy" seems to assume that a male God can be vengeful and a female God can't? Please don't take offence at my assertion. Im just commenting. Im not trying to be incendiary in any way.


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2019)

Interesting perspective. I had not considered that my comments might be so construed. In my perspective, gender is not a defining figure in a God. I believe such a Being  to be far beyond such constraints. Nor did I intend to suggest that anger was reflected in such a fashion. I spoke in

archetypes, using a certain amount of hyperbole to reinforce my point. In a patriarchal culture, the power in religion remains geared more towards men. Stern father requiring appeasement is still

viewed by many as an appropriate representation of God, while a more gentle, loving manifestation is often perceived as wishwashy and feminine. I believe vengeful behaviour has nothing whatsoever  to do with gender.


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## Rosemarie (Aug 24, 2019)

I think the reactions to this thread are interesting in themselves. It's obvious that there are people on here who are quite willing to discuss religious matters in a perfectly civilised manner; whereas others have taken the opportunity to cause discord. 
It has to be said that there are those who will do the latter whatever the subject.


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## StarSong (Aug 24, 2019)

For me it all comes down to this:


*      “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”    *

―     Mahatma Gandhi


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## hypochondriac (Aug 24, 2019)

I like your Ath. I dont like your Atheists?  
doesnt work  does it.
no we love everyone  even when its hard.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 24, 2019)

Rosemarie said:


> I think the reactions to this thread are interesting in themselves. It's obvious that there are people on here who are quite willing to discuss religious matters in a perfectly civilised manner; whereas others have taken the opportunity to cause discord.
> It has to be said that there are those who will do the latter whatever the subject.


I find your input quite objective Rosemarie.Thanks.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 24, 2019)

StarSong said:


> For me it all comes down to this:
> 
> 
> *      “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”    *
> ...


So you hate all Christians?
And love all atheists?
Look I dont like some Christians either.  They are flawed human beings after all. We just dont hit it off.
And I really like some Atheists. The polite respectful ones especially. 
My best friend is a Muslim by the way. We just have personalities that click.
As someone said the key  denominator is respect. Being able to look past the labels in people.


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## Shalimar (Aug 24, 2019)

Upon reflection,  I give over the mysteries enshrined in theology to the scholars. I endeavour to live a life filled with love and compassion. For me it is enough, essential, really. I am also not fond of black and white thinking, difficult to avoid the negativity which so often accompanies it. A more lateral perspective works for this empath. Organised  religion has been an obstacle in my search for the Divine. Spirituality has not.


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## fuzzybuddy (Aug 24, 2019)

Maybe it's not the word of the lord one hears, but the sound of one's own voice-many, many, many times over.


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## Pepper (Aug 24, 2019)

Since when does 'don't like' mean hate?  Sounds like a persecution thing.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 24, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> Upon reflection,  I give over the mysteries enshrined in theology to the scholars. I endeavour to live a life filled with love and compassion. For me it is enough, essential, really. I am also not fond of black and white thinking, difficult to avoid the negativity which so often accompanies it. A more lateral perspective works for this empath. Organised  religion has been an obstacle in my search for the Divine. Spirituality has not.


I think Im similar to you. Too much left brain, dualistic thinking might be at the root of some Christian perspectives. But I don't know for sure. There are smart, interesting theologians who can embrace both styles of thinking. Thomas Merton is one I can think of.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 24, 2019)

Pepper said:


> Since when does 'don't like' mean hate?  Sounds like a persecution thing.


I forgive you.


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## Pepper (Aug 24, 2019)

As I do You!  I find you so likeable, and, if I may be shallow, cute too!


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## Lara (Aug 24, 2019)

StarSong said:


> For me it all comes down to this: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”― Mahatma Gandhi


Ghandi said that?? If he liked Christ then he must not have considered Him to be a liar. And if he didn't think he was a liar then he must have believed him when Christ said He's the Son Of God, the Messiah, the Savior of Man's sins. If that's true then Ghandi was a Christian! And he must have believed Christ's reason for suffering on the cross...which was to forgive the sins of man who believed in Jesus...the very men Ghandi doesn't like. Too bad Ghandi didn't understand that Christ loved the sinner but not the sin.

Did  Ghandi seriously expect Christians to be perfect? If they were perfect then they wouldn't need a Savior would they? Poor Ghandi was so confused.


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## Pepper (Aug 24, 2019)

One thing Ghandi was not was confused.  Read his autobiography.


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## hypochondriac (Aug 24, 2019)

Lara said:


> Ghandi said that?? If he liked Christ then he must not have considered Him to be a liar. And if he didn't think he was a liar then he must have believed him when Christ said He's the Son Of God, the Messiah, the Savior of Man's sins. If that's true then Ghandi was a Christian! And he must have believed Christ's reason for suffering on the cross...which was to forgive the sins of man who believed in Jesus...the very men Ghandi doesn't like. Too bad Ghandi didn't understand that Christ loved the sinner but not the sin.
> 
> Did  Ghandi seriously expect Christians to be perfect? If they were perfect then they wouldn't need a Savior would they? Poor Ghandi was so confused.


thats a fair point Lara. Ghandi was a smart guy. Possibly his quote can be taken too literally. My guess is that he came across some extreme Christian zealots or just obvious hypocrite Pharisee types. Which give the Christian brand a bad name.


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## Lara (Aug 24, 2019)

I know Ghandi was a "smart guy" but that doesn't mean he was all knowing. I was shocked that he didn't know more about the sin nature of ALL mankind....not just Christians. And then to culturally stereotype is not what I would expect from him either.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 24, 2019)

I'll answer the thread title as it reads.  
*Why is ________  the answer to life's meaning for you?*

Why is _living _the answer to life's meaning for you?  I've never gone off the deep end in pondering the meaning of life.  In my opinion, living is the answer to life's meaning.  I think that people should just live their lives and cherish each moment of the present without regretting the past or fearing what may happen in the future.

I think really living and appreciating everything that this life on earth affords us, the beauty of nature, the mystery of the heavens (sky, stars, etc.), the mystique of the ever-changing clouds, the individuality of each and every ocean wave, the majestic wildlife, our fellow human beings, etc. 

I'm blessed to have been born on this earth, and I appreciate my time here.  My life has already extended longer than some of my dear family and friends, so I am thankful for that.  I think if we show kindness, we'll generally get the same in return.  We have control of the quality of our lives until we no longer exist.


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## Marie5656 (Aug 24, 2019)

*I finally have sat down and read through this thread and all of its responses. Here is what I think.  Our life's meaning can change from day to day in some cases.  Like the Butterfly Effect, change one little thing, and your whole life can go into a totally different spin and its' meaning for us, personally, can change dramatically.
My life has had its' ups and downs.  
I lapsed from religion many times in my 65 years.  Went back, and left again.  I consider myself a Christian, but do not always wish to follow "what the bible says".  So much has changed.  But that is a different story all together.
I do not feel we need or should just live for the moment.  But, we need to respect each other and realize that we all are different, with different values and opinions.
When my husband died, I thought my world was done.  But I think it was just the grief talking.  I lived for 45 years of my life before I even met him, and I know I can move on again and embrace my new normal in life.
Must we attend a structured, formal, meeting in a house of worship to show God we believe in him?  If it works for you, then good. If it does not, and sitting in a quiet spot, with a warm breeze, just reflecting on how we can make our lives better, than that is good. too.
I have other thoughts, but will save them until I absorb this thread better. *


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## Olivia (Aug 24, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> I'll answer the thread title as it reads.
> *Why is ________  the answer to life's meaning for you?*
> 
> Why is _living _the answer to life's meaning for you?  I've never gone off the deep end in pondering the meaning of life.  In my opinion, living is the answer to life's meaning.  I think that people should just live their lives and cherish each moment of the present without regretting the past or fearing what may happen in the future.
> ...



Of anything, I agree with the most as to what Seabreeze has said here.   I do believe that getting out of myself and into the world is the best I can do for being happy as to what it means to be happy. It's said that life and what it's all about is what happens when you stop thinking about what it should be. Just be it!


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## jalou65 (Aug 25, 2019)

Trade said:


> I'm not one of those militant Atheists. I don't give a rat's ass if they put a manger scene on the courthouse lawn at Christmas time.


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## jalou65 (Aug 25, 2019)

Trade said:


> I'm not one of those militant Atheists. I don't give a rat's ass if they put a manger scene on the courthouse lawn at Christmas time.


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## jalou65 (Aug 25, 2019)

Sorry about my previous 2 posts.  I was trying to reply to Trade's post but, obviously, I don't know what I'm doing.


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## Sunny (Aug 26, 2019)

Good Ghandi quote, Starsong. The same thought has often occurred to me. What would Jesus think of the ideas and attitudes being promoted in the name of what is (supposedly) his religion? How much human misery has been caused?  Let's back up to life in medieval Europe and move up through the Spanish inquisition, Puritanism, torture inflicted on those who have different beliefs,  terrifying people with ridiculous nonsense about a fictitious place called hell, murderous pogroms against the Jews of Europe, collusion with dictators and vengeance-oriented legal systems, "chastity," (or at least the pretense of it, except when it comes to alter boys),  censorship  and mind control, attitudes about divorce, intermarriage, homosexuality, sex in general, birth control, speech that is/is not permitted, the place of women, which boils down to either temptresses or saintly baby-making machines, guilt (that one should be in capitals), even the way people dress and what they should be allowed to drink. All of these horrors have been committed in the name of what you call "the answer to life's meaning."

Yes, other religions have committed some of these atrocities also, and continue to do so. But you specifically named Christianity in your question. So that's the religion my answer is aimed at.

Hypo, you seem to be deliberately fanning the flames of a war that no one on this forum will ever win. Why?


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## Sunny (Aug 26, 2019)

How did "Christianity" disappear from the title of this thread?


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 26, 2019)

Sunny said:


> How did "Christianity" disappear from the title of this thread?


Divine intervention.


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## Rosemarie (Aug 26, 2019)

I think we need to make a distinction between 'Christianity' and the 'Christian Church. To my mind, being a Christian simply means following the teachings of Jesus. The Church as an institution is a separate thing altogether. Some appalling atrocities have been committed in the name of the Catholic Church.


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## fuzzybuddy (Aug 26, 2019)

nhuiol


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## Sunny (Aug 27, 2019)

Fuzzy, could you translate?  (Or did you just sit on your keyboard?)


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## norman (Aug 27, 2019)

*To live, love, laugh and be happy and have an abundance of beautiful dreams..  * What was the question again?  I have often pondered the meaning of _life _.... so far, so good.


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## jerry old (Sep 14, 2019)

As the author said when hard times arrive, and they will,  you better have "Something of Value."


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 16, 2019)

"nhuiol ". Apparently, I said that??  Well, I meant every word.


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## Knight (Sep 16, 2019)

Why is science the answer to life's meaning for you?

Placed science where the _________________ was. 

Science explains how old the earth is, & when some form of life began on earth. Science explains species & the evolution process. Science provideS information on how life could begin 3 1/2 billion years ago

Astronauts Identify Mystery Microbes in Space for the 1st Time ...

https://www.space.com › 39254-astronauts-sequence-microbes-dna-in-space
Jan 2, 2018 - ... first time unknown organisms were sequenced and identified entirely in space. ... The astronauts found the mystery microbes were two commonly associated ... NASA astronaut Peggy Whitson sequenced unknown DNA found 

Life is about thinking & not blindly accepting stories that are made up to fit the unknown when they were written.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 17, 2019)

pizza


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## jerry old (Oct 7, 2019)

jalou65 said:


> Sorry about my previous 2 posts.  I was trying to reply to Trade's post but, obviously*, I don't know what I'm doing*.
> Get used to it, don't know your age, I'm  78-don't know why I'm allowed to wander around lose.
> First three-four years of confusing I've felt awkward saying, 'I dunno and Can't remember.'
> Now I can't remember that I've forgotten-makes for an interesting existence, very peculiar.


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## jerry old (Oct 7, 2019)

Marie


Marie5656 said:


> *Must we attend a structured, formal, meeting in a house of worship to show God we believe in him?  If it works for you, then good. If it does not, and sitting in a quiet spot, with a warm breeze, just reflecting on how we can make our lives better, than that is good. too.
> I have other thoughts, but will save them until I absorb this thread better. *


Yea, most folks faith requires the reinforcement of like-minded people and the Bible requires it---
Talked to a preacher well over thirty years ago (the only Absolutely, Totally Christian Man I carry around in my memory.)
He pinned me on my back sliding ways, Says I:  'Well preacher I guess I'm a professional backslider.'
Now my faith is absolutely unshakeable, I'm not a Job, but change my belief-no way!
My church attendance is now and again, mostly again...

I do know formal churches do a lot of other things rather than teach the faith,;a lot of things which have nothing to do with the word.

Marie, read my girlfriends feelings on this topic:
Some keep the Sabbath going to church,  by Emily Dickinson
(I goggle, if not on net, I'll message it to you-Deal?-deal)


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## Sunny (Oct 7, 2019)

I'm pretty much on Knight's wave length on this topic. To me, science is not _the _answer to life's meaning, but it gives us the tools that can be used by a rational mind to edge closer to understanding what's what. Science does not demand that you accept anything, just because some ancient scholar wrote it. It is always subject to questioning, analysis, and sometimes rejection. As we learn more and more, our scientific theories change all the time.  I so much prefer that as a guide to understanding life; I am encouraged to use my brain instead of being told what I should believe.

I think in the modern world, the only logical place for religion is in its humanism. If a religion teaches us to be kind, compassionate, peaceful, tolerant, and friendly to other people, kind to animals and to the planet, then it makes sense as a guide. Basing modern life on the Bible, just because somebody scared us into doing it, is not a way to give life "meaning."

OK, children, end of sermon.


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## fmdog44 (Oct 7, 2019)

I never believed there is answer. I take things as they come. Some folks have revelations that change their lives. So be it. Life is as difficult or as blissful as you make it.


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## jerry old (Oct 7, 2019)

1.  I suppose religion has disparage more than it has succored.  
     We are not a static species, those events that swirl around our lives alter
 our behavior. 
    Our history does not seem to be capable of humanism, our philosophers always come up short.
     Is each of us to muddle through life as best we can?  
     I fear that is the answer, each one of us must determine the course of travel.
     I have tried many, some have held me for a decade, half a decade, but none have satisfied
      the many discontents I encountered,  until I gave up. 
       Supply your own opinion on one that gives up, remembering that I was seventy years old.
        Anyone that age has seen a lot, done a lot, much I would not care to remember.
        I've been satisfied for the last two decades-the problems, oh  yes.  many real problems,
        my response is as it has always been-very poor; however, I will persevere because I have help.


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## jerry old (Oct 7, 2019)

Well, 'Now For something completely different.'  Take a deep breath folks and relax.  You live in a country where you enjoy greater freedom than any other nation.
I enjoy reading about the 'thought police' of Stalin's Era.  We don't have that, I suppose it could happen, but it would be very difficult.
I think our people are too crazed to be shackled.
Knowledge of what happened, or what is happening in outer countries does not harm
So post as you will, Oh, you don't know what is provocative and what is not-keep posting, the Adm folk will educate you.  
Okay, all better now...............................................


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## Knight (Oct 8, 2019)

jerry r. garner said:


> Well, 'Now For something completely different.'  Take a deep breath folks and relax.  You live in a country where you enjoy greater freedom than any other nation.
> 
> I enjoy reading about the 'thought police' of Stalin's Era.  We don't have that, I suppose it could happen, but it would be very difficult.
> *************************************************
> ...


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## jerry old (Oct 8, 2019)

I understand the no politics rule; however, the line between history and politics is dim (thinks I)
I had a great post that said a great deal about us:  When we are ill, fear were close to death, we do a lot of thinking-Only After WE have Called
the Doctor.
(Note: Watch it boy, your talking politics here!  Think before you  post)


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## Knight (Oct 8, 2019)

jerry r. garner said:


> I understand the no politics rule; however, the line between history and politics is dim (thinks I)
> I had a great post that said a great deal about us:  When we are ill, fear were close to death, we do a lot of thinking-Only After WE have Called
> the Doctor.
> (Note: Watch it boy, your talking politics here!  Think before you  post)


You did read this right?
Quote
"As for Stalin's era & thought police getting into politics is not allowed. So I'll just stick with how political correctness & tearing down symbols of our past have become the thinking process."

Political correctness or destruction of symbols of our past have nothing to do with politics. It's about the thinking process. 

But this is getting away from the op's question, so I think it best to discontinue our exchange.


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## Lc jones (Oct 8, 2019)

This was originally hypochondriacs posting. He filled in the blank with Christianity.  I’m a Christian and had no problem with it but I believe others did. It is difficult to be a Christian nowadays there’s a lot of persecution I don’t preach to other people but I’ve got to say it works for me and when you discover something that’s awesome for you you want others to hear about it in my case I actually love other people and I want people to be as happy as I am I’m not trying to preach to anybody I know it’s a pain in the neck that people do that and I can’t stand it either but I wanted to share what I was thinking.


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## DaveA (Oct 8, 2019)

I'm a Christian also, but to say that it's  "difficult to be a Christian nowadays" would sound better if saying it's "difficult to be a (any religion) nowadays.  I assume from what I read and see that people of all faiths (or none at all) suffer discrimination , some more and some less, depending where they're standing at the moment.  

I have to confess, that I'm somewhat of a relapsed Christian or as our pastor used to say about family members who failed to show up on Sunday, "a Home Baptist"  Criticism comes from all directions and flows in all directions.  I choose to let folks follow their own path (regarding religion, or lack of same).  I have enough of a struggle stumbling along my own path!!


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## Knight (Oct 8, 2019)

Lc jones said:


> This was originally hypochondriacs posting. He filled in the blank with Christianity.  I’m a Christian and had no problem with it but I believe others did. It is difficult to be a Christian nowadays there’s a lot of persecution I don’t preach to other people but I’ve got to say it works for me and when you discover something that’s awesome for you you want others to hear about it in my case I actually love other people and I want people to be as happy as I am I’m not trying to preach to anybody I know it’s a pain in the neck that people do that and I can’t stand it either but I wanted to share what I was thinking.


Celebrating or enjoying your faith and expressing that as being happy beats the way some post about their miserable families or in-laws.


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## Lc jones (Oct 8, 2019)

Knight said:


> Celebrating or enjoying your faith and expressing that as being happy beats the way some post about their miserable families or in-laws.


Thanks I appreciate that


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## Lc jones (Oct 8, 2019)

DaveA said:


> I'm a Christian also, but to say that it's  "difficult to be a Christian nowadays" would sound better if saying it's "difficult to be a (any religion) nowadays.  I assume from what I read and see that people of all faiths (or none at all) suffer discrimination , some more and some less, depending where they're standing at the moment.
> 
> I have to confess, that I'm somewhat of a relapsed Christian or as our pastor used to say about family members who failed to show up on Sunday, "a Home Baptist"  Criticism comes from all directions and flows in all directions.  I choose to let folks follow their own path (regarding religion, or lack of same).  I have enough of a struggle stumbling along my own path!!


I respectfully disagree


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## Lc jones (Oct 8, 2019)

Lc jones said:


> I respectfully disagree


Much of the prejudice nowadays is specifically directed toward Christians but as the Bible says persecution is to be expected it just comes with the territory.


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## DaveA (Oct 9, 2019)

Can't argue with a "*respectful"* disagreement.


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## Pepper (Oct 9, 2019)

Lc jones said:


> Much of the prejudice nowadays is specifically directed toward Christians but as the Bible says persecution is to be expected it just comes with the territory.


Ridiculous.  So is a need to feel persecuted.  You guys are in the overwhelming majority here.  Saying 'happy holidays' instead of 'merry xmas' does not mean persecution.  Means paranoia and attention seeking.


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## C'est Moi (Oct 9, 2019)

I don't know why some people feel so threatened by Christianity.   I'm an agnostic and I have ZERO interest in being offended by someone else's beliefs.   Get over yourselves and find something new to be "offended" by.   Good grief.


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## Lc jones (Oct 9, 2019)

Pepper said:


> Ridiculous.  So is a need to feel persecuted.  You guys are in the overwhelming majority here.  Saying 'happy holidays' instead of 'merry xmas' does not mean persecution.  Means paranoia and attention seeking.


You’ve just proved the Bible correct


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## Pepper (Oct 9, 2019)

Lc jones said:


> You’ve just proved the Bible correct


Is someone threatening your life for your adherence to your religion?  Are you being escorted out of town for it's practice?  Were you denied employment?  Housing? Are there laws being passed against you?  Were you hung upside down and crucified like Peter? No, because that is persecution and you don't know the meaning of the word.  In fact, you cheapen it's meaning for people who are persecuted. 

So, where and how do you feel you are being persecuted?  Is it because when you whine, folks tell you to shut up?  Be specific.


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## jerry old (Oct 9, 2019)

Pepper and LC
Slack off, I  think the powers that be are itching to close this thread.
When your bacon is burned, send a message, of course that too will probably be discussed.
Dealing with folks is difficult, I never got it down pat.


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## Lc jones (Oct 9, 2019)

jerry r. garner said:


> Pepper and LC
> Slack off, I  think the powers that be are itching to close this thread.
> When your bacon is burned, send a message, of course that too will probably be discussed.
> Dealing with folks is difficult, I never got it down pat.


Sounds good to me


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## Keesha (Nov 21, 2019)

I’d like to apologize for adding humour to the last thread about religion. It was inappropriate.

Seeing members arguing is horrible but adding humour wasn’t the solution. 

I’ve got no issues with others expressing their religious beliefs and will opt out of the threads next time.

Sorry if any of my words were hurtful to my fellow members.


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## StarSong (Nov 21, 2019)

Keesha, There was nothing offensive or inappropriate about your comment, you just happened to be holding the hot potato when the music stopped. I'd guess most of us were stunned that thread wasn't closed months earlier. 

This thread may not last much longer either because people get at least as worked up about religion as we do politics.  Looking back over who has posted what on this thread (myself included), I see the usual suspects making the usual arguments. Not one person said, "Hmmmm... maybe you're right. Maybe I should rethink my religious positions. Let me do a little research and get back to you." 

Instead we support allies for our own positions and gather ammunition to attack opposing ones, then sit in our respective corners and defend to the death. That's why I said in post #19 ^^^, "If this turns into a religious forum I'll likely find myself spending less and less time here." 

Debating religion has ceased to be interesting.  _Learning about religions_ including what they believe and how they evolved, yes. Debating them and the consequences for not swallowing every morsel, chapter and verse? Nope.


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## fuzzybuddy (Nov 21, 2019)

The problem of discussing religion is believers. Believers believe.  Believers have full and absolute trust in their beliefs. So, it's hard to argue with that. I make no bones that I'm an Atheist. I used to debate whether there is a deity. That debate is useless. There's no common ground. The best we can do is to respect that the other is sincere, and to respect each others views. As long as there is no coercion, we can live peacefully with each other


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## Lc jones (Nov 21, 2019)

Keesha said:


> I’d like to apologize for adding humour to the last thread about religion. It was inappropriate.
> 
> Seeing members arguing is horrible but adding humour wasn’t the solution.
> 
> ...


Yes it can be hurtful when someone laughs at your beliefs, I appreciate your apology.


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## Lc jones (Nov 21, 2019)

Keesha said:


> I’d like to apologize for adding humour to the last thread about religion. It was inappropriate.
> 
> Seeing members arguing is horrible but adding humour wasn’t the solution.
> 
> ...


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## Lara (Nov 23, 2019)

"Why is The Itsy Bitsy Spider the answer to the meaning of Life?"

Because the itsy bitsy spider goes up the water spout, is washed out by the rain, then the sun comes out and dries up all the rain, and the itsy bitsy spider goes up the spout again(repeat)....and that's just life 

Of course that's far from my full answer to what the meaning of life is...it's just my "cute" answer


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## Lc jones (Nov 23, 2019)

Lara said:


> "Why is The Itsy Bitsy Spider the answer to the meaning of Life?"
> 
> Because the itsy bitsy spider goes up the water spout, down comes the rain and washes the spider out, out comes the sun and dries up all the rain, and the itsy bitsy spider goes up the spout again...and that's just life


God bless that beautiful baby!


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## Lewkat (Nov 24, 2019)

The miracle of childbirth.


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