# Medical Treatment in USA



## Rosemarie (Aug 25, 2019)

Can someone explain to me how the health service in America works? As I understand it, everyone has to have medical insurance, which pays for basic medical treatment. Any further expense has to paid by the patient. What happens if you don't have medical insurance, do you get turned away? If you're involved in a road accident and are taken to hospital, do they refuse to treat you if you have no insurance? Are there charity hospitals for those who can't afford to pay?


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## jujube (Aug 25, 2019)

Most hospitals cannot refuse to treat a person just because they don't have the insurance/money up front, at least in an emergency situation.  There used to be "charity hospitals" but I'm not sure if they exist any longer.  The cost of treating these patients, who probably are never going to pay, gets written into operating costs, which of course gets passed onto those who DO have insurance or money to pay.  I know, from working at a hospital for years, that everyone has to sign an agreement to pay later, but a lot of them don't ever pay a cent.  The hospitals are good at setting up payment plans because that way they get something, at least, if not all.  Usually somewhere along the line, you can make a deal with the hospital, i.e., "I know my bill is $100,000, but if you'll accept $30,000 to close it out, we have a deal.  Otherwise, I'll just declare bankruptcy and you'll get nothing." 

The practice was, for years, for the "private" hospitals to stabilize anyone who showed up and then pass them on to a "public" hospital (which were essentially the "charity" hospitals of yore) for the rest of the treatment/hospitalization.

As for doctors' offices......I assume they CAN turn people away and tell them to go to the emergency room instead.


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## johndoe (Aug 25, 2019)

When you are old enough you can get on Medicare where the government picks up 80% of the tab and you are responsible for the rest, but you can buy insurance which covers most of the rest. I'm satisfied with that part of our healthcare system. Those not like myself are having a tougher time. Could someone please tells us who pays for the British system by way of taxation. I assume nothing is really free.


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## toffee (Sep 3, 2019)

UK. NHS...…… is mainly funded by taxation 80% -- the rest is funded by national stamp we pay when working .. it makes me shudder when I read about the hospital care in America ……...unless you go private and pay for a operation / and private ward ..in the UK. ALL prescription are free as well at 65 onwards ..


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## Lc jones (Sep 4, 2019)

I am covered for medical care dental care and some vision under my insurance company. I received this  Insurance  through my employer. After I retired I was eligible to obtain this insurance  after paying a premium. After age 65 I will be eligible for Medicare which I have been paying into since I was a young person and started working.


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

toffee said:


> UK. NHS...…… is mainly funded by taxation 80% -- the rest is funded by national stamp we pay when working .. it makes me shudder when I read about the hospital care in America ……...unless you go private and pay for a operation / and private ward ..in the UK. *ALL prescription are free as well at 65 onwards ..*


* Actually 60... they are all free, as well as Eye tests...   *


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

Do you as Americans..and I realise every state may be  different , have to pay for an ambulance if you call 911?.. 

Here in the Uk and Ireland  ambulances are free...


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## Patio Life (Sep 4, 2019)

With my insurance I have a co-pay of $250.00 for an ambulance. This is my Medicare Policy. 

I just had a heart attack and spent 6 days in the hospital - ER, ICU, step down care, 2 stent surgeries, meds, etc, etc, etc. The total bill was about $200,000.00. My portion is $700.00. 

Very good care, top of the line Drs.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

The cost of the BCBS PPO for State of Florida Employees, the family plan I was on when I was working is $1653.18 per month. That's almost $20,000 a year.

https://www.mybenefits.myflorida.co.../951981/2019_Benefits_Guide09_28_18_FINAL.PDF)

That's a group rate that the State of Florida gets. If you had to buy that on your own it would be more. That will get you decent coverage. Not as good as what you get from your NHS. You will still have co-pays and deductibles.  

The argument I keep hearing against universal health care is that it will cost too much and that our taxes will go up. Well hello! What do you think that $20,000 a year that we are paying the health insurance companies for a decent family plan is? I consider that a tax. 

I have no doubt the government could do it better and cheaper, just like they do under our Medicare system and like your government does under your NHS.


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## C'est Moi (Sep 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> I have no doubt the government could do it better and cheaper, just like they do under our Medicare system and like your government does under your NHS.


Seriously?


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> Seriously?



Serious as a heart attack.


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## C'est Moi (Sep 4, 2019)

Yeah, because the government does such a good job running everything else.    We definitely need them involved because the national debt just isn't high enough yet.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> Yeah, because the government does such a good job running everything else.    We definitely need them involved because the national debt just isn't high enough yet.



Find one person in a country with Universal Health Care that would like to trade systems with us. For every one you find I will find ten that will say that person is full of crap.


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## C'est Moi (Sep 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> Find one person in a country with Universal Health Care that would like to trade systems with us. For every one you find I will find ten that will say that person is full of crap.


I suppose the Canadians who cross the border for various treatment.   Frankly, I don't care whether they'd trade systems with us.   I don't want our government running the health care system.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> I suppose the Canadians who cross the border for various treatment.   Frankly, I don't care whether they'd trade systems with us.   I don't want our government running the health care system.


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## Patio Life (Sep 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> I suppose the Canadians who cross the border for various treatment.   Frankly, I don't care whether they'd trade systems with us.   I don't want our government running the health care system.


They already run Medicare, VA and put in place requirements for Medicaid. I'm guessing the government already runs about half of all "insurance" now.

Insurance companies are run for the benefit of the shareholders, not the benefit of the policy holders/payers.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

Patio Life said:


> They already run Medicare, VA and put in place requirements for Medicaid. I'm guessing the government already runs about half of all "insurance" now.
> 
> Insurance companies are run for the benefit of the shareholders, not the benefit of the policy holders/payers.




Apparently C'est Moi doesn't have Medicare. 

Because surely she knows Medicare is run by the government.


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## Ruthanne (Sep 4, 2019)

As for Medicaid everything including prescriptions included and eyeglasses and dental.  But only certain eyeglasses and dental procedures are covered.  Some doctors take Medicaid and some don't and it doesn't mean you can't get any good doctors, you can.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> As for Medicaid everything including prescriptions included and eyeglasses and dental.  But only certain eyeglasses and dental procedures are covered.  Some doctors take Medicaid and some don't and it doesn't mean you can't get any good doctors, you can.



Are you on Medicaid? 

The reason I ask is that I only know one person that was and from what they told me it wasn't very good.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> Do you as Americans..and I realise every state may be  different , have to pay for an ambulance if you call 911?..
> 
> Here in the Uk and Ireland  ambulances are free...



Are you kidding?

The last time I had to call an ambulance for my wife the bill came to somehwhere between $400 and $500 for a three mile to the hospital. And that was about 7 or 8 years ago. I'm sure it's more by now. Fortunately I had good insurance which covered it. When I got my kidney stone I called my daughter to come and take me to the ER. Sure my insurance would have covered an ambulance but I didn't want to reward those extortionists again.

As it stands now I would not call an ambulance for myself or a family member unless it's a matter of life or death. Anything less and it will be "get in the car".


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> Are you kidding?
> 
> The last time I had to call an ambulance for my wife the bill came to somehwhere between $400 and $500 for a three mile to the hospital. And that was about 7 or 8 years ago. I'm sure it's more by now. Fortunately I had good insurance which covered it. When I got my kidney stone I called my daughter to come and take me to the ER. Sure my insurance would have covered an ambulance but I didn't want to reward those extortionists again.
> 
> As it stands now I would not call an ambulance for myself or a family member unless it's a matter of life or death. Anything less and it will be "get in the car".


OMG!!! I feel for you, that astonishing.  ours are free... totally free!! of course there are those who try to abuse the system who probably wouldn't if there was a charge, but it's always free to anyone who needs it. ...that said there's been a discussion for a few years now about possibly implementing a charge for those who go out get drunk or drugged and need to be lifted off to hospital in an ambulance ( self inflicted injuries ) should be made to pay ..even our Air ambulance helicopters are free, so if you get stuck rock climbing, the air ambulance will rescue you FREE!! ..equally the RNLI ( the free rescue lifeboat service)..they too will rescue for free if you've capsized way out at sea , and call an air ambulance or regular ambulance for you once you're rescued ..all for free!!

What happens to the old , sick, and poor, in the USA , Trade..  who need  to get to a hospital ..say after a minor acident like a cut , or a fall breaking or spraining a bone or muscle and can't walk, and have no-one to drive them ?.. they have to pay?..even if they're poor?.


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## Ken N Tx (Sep 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> Are you kidding?
> 
> The last time I had to call an ambulance for my wife the bill came to somehwhere between $400 and $500 for a three mile to the hospital. And that was about 7 or 8 years ago. I'm sure it's more by now. Fortunately I had good insurance which covered it. When I got my kidney stone I called my daughter to come and take me to the ER. Sure my insurance would have covered an ambulance but I didn't want to reward those extortionists again.
> 
> As it stands now I would not call an ambulance for myself or a family member unless it's a matter of life or death. Anything less and it will be "get in the car".


My neighbor had to be Care Flight  (helicopter) 8 miles between hospitals and the bill was $18,000!!!


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> As for Medicaid everything including prescriptions included and eyeglasses and dental.  But only certain eyeglasses and dental procedures are covered.  Some doctors take Medicaid and some don't and it doesn't mean you can't get any good doctors, you can.


 The one thing that is not free here is dental (unless you're a child)... but otherwise we all have to pay dentist fees...


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## Ruthanne (Sep 4, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> OMG!!! I feel for you, that astonishing.  ours are free... totally free!! of course there are those who try to abuse the system who probably wouldn't if there was a charge, but it's always free to anyone who needs it. ...that said there's been a discussion for a few years now about possibly implementing a chatrge for those who go out gget drunk or drugged and need to be lifted off to hospital in an ambulance ( self inflicted injuries ) should be made to pay ..even our Air ambulance helicopters are free, so if you get stuck rock climbing, the air ambulance will rescue you FREE!! ..equally the RNLI ( the free recue lifeboat service)..they too will rescue for free, and call and air ambulance or regular ambulance for you..all for free!!
> 
> What happens to the old , sick, and poor, in the USA , Trade..  who need  to get to a hospital ..say after a minor acident like a cut , or a fall breaking or spraining a bone or muscle and can't walk, and have no-one to drive them ?.. they have to pay?..even if they're poor?.


Many of the disabled and poor get Medicaid.  There is transportation available to them by Medicaid.  In emergency situations no one is turned down.


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

Ken N Tx said:


> My neighbor had to be Care Flight  (helicopter) 8 miles between hospitals and the bill was $18,000!!!


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> Many of the disabled and poor get Medicaid.  There is transportation available to them by Medicaid.  In emergency situations no one is turned down.


But would they call something like a sprain in  an old or poor person.. an emergency Ruthanne?..I'm sorry  I'm only trying to learn it just seems so complicated to me.. thanks all for answering my questions.. We're so lucky here, and I hope none of you believe president trump telling you our hospitals  are like Beirut..LOL...we may have long waits to see consultants and hospital emergency rooms are shutting down at a rate of knots  but we do get the best treatment at source ..


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

I like my insurance. It doesn't cover my wife and I quite as good as we would be covered in someplace like Canada or the PPO UK. But for the US it's pretty good. Now. Let's see how much it costs. 

$135.50 each for Medicare part B. That's $271 a month. Then $776 a month to BCBS for the PPO plan that I had at work cover most of the 20% that Medicare doesn't cover and our prescription drugs. So that's $271 + 776 = $1,047 a month. I consider myself lucky to get away that cheap. But of course that's because the government heavily subsidizes our Medicare. If we had to pay the full freight of Medicare it would be $437 a month for each of us just for Part A.   
https://www.medicare.gov/your-medicare-costs/part-a-costs
In addition the $135.50 that we pay for part B only represents 1/4 of the total cost. So that would be another 
$ 406.50 each. So let's add all this up. 

$1047 a month that I pay. 

Plus $974 a month for Part A coverage for both of us. 

Plus $813 a month for 3/4 of part B. 

That comes to a grand total of $2,834 a month for the two of us, $1,787 (or 63%) of which is paid by the government. $1047 (or 37%) of which I pay.

$2,834 a month = $34008 a year for Medical insurance for two old geezers. Plus co-pays and deductibles, which as I said before, are not too bad.


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## Ruthanne (Sep 4, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> But would they call something like a sparian in a an old or poor person.. an emergency Ruthanne?..I'm sorry  I'm only trying to learn it just seems so complicated to me.. thanks all for answering my questions.. We're so lucky here, and I hope none of you believe president trump telling you our hopsitals are like Beirut..LOL


If they go to emergency services for a sprain whoever they are are not turned down at an ER service.  Many older than 65, too, get Medicare and Medicaid depending on just how poor they are.  Medicare pays 80% and the insured pays the 20% through an insurer.  Vision, dental are usually included with those plans as well as with Medicaid.


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

OMG !!! $34,000 per year?... I never even paid that in mortgage payments..

Now if you were to come and live  over here you would be $34,000  a year better off


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> But would they call something like a sprain in  an old or poor person.. an emergency Ruthanne?..I'm sorry  I'm only trying to learn it just seems so complicated to me.. thanks all for answering my questions.. We're so lucky here, and I hope none of you believe president trump telling you our hospitals  are like Beirut..LOL...we may have long waits to see consultants and hospital emergency rooms are shutting down at a rate of knots  but we do get the best treatment at source ..



There are many many lies being told over here about your system and Canada's by those intrests that want to maintain the status quo in order to continue to rake in the big bucks.


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> There are many many lies being told over here about your system and Canada's by those intrests that want to maintain the status quo in order to continue to rake in the big bucks.


 Yes I've been told about that and read some too...


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> OMG !!! $34,000 per year?... I never even paid that in mortgage payments..
> 
> Now if you were to come and live  over here you would be $34,000 better off



Now remember, since my wife and I have medicare the government is footing 63% of the bill. So thank the God I don't believe in for Medicare.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> Many of the disabled and poor get Medicaid.  There is transportation available to them by Medicaid.  In emergency situations no one is turned down.



Sure no one is turned down at the ER. But every ER I have ever been two has a big prominently displayed sign that reads "Payment is expected in full at the time service is delivered". What the subtcxt of that signs means is 

"If you don't have good insurance or are rich, or both, we really don't want you here, but since we have to we will give you the minimum treatment we can get away with and shove you out the door and tell you to follow up with your regular doctor or a specialist, neither of which you can afford you neer do well you". We might even write you a prescription which you will not be able to afford to fill.


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

Well, I'm very happy that we have the sytem we have , that's for sure, it may need improving in many ways, but at least I'm never in danger of going bankrupt over a medical bill, thank you Lord!!

I absolutely don't want to be dissing a system I know very little about, I'm just very interested in how it all works, and thanks for the explanations..  but I'm just happy I'm not in that situation.. and I hope all of you are covered in one way or another to get the medical help you need when you really need it..


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## C'est Moi (Sep 4, 2019)

Patio Life said:


> They already run Medicare, VA and put in place requirements for Medicaid.


And those are such a rousing success, particularly the VA.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> And those are such a rousing success, particularly the VA.



I don't know about the VA and thank the God I don't believe in that I am not at the mercy of Medicaid, but I loves me my Medicare. And if you have it, I'll bet you love it too.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> I absolutely don't want to be dissing a system I know very little about,



No problem. I happy to take up the slack for you on that.


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## AnnieA (Sep 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> And those are such a rousing success, particularly the VA.



Exactly my thoughts reading through the thread.  If we ever do move to a universal system, the employees should be contract, not federal.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

Oh, and one more thing.  If you don't have insurance the hospitals here will bill you anywhere from 3-5 times what they have negociated with the insurance companies for the same services. I still haven't figured out why they do this. They know these poor schmucks can't pay it. I guess it's just to stress them out and scare them into never coming back.

For example, when I had my stent put in the initial bill was $47,000. My insurance paid $12000. I paid nothing. But if I had been uninsured I would have been billed the whole $47,000. 

Similar situation when my wife had her hip replacement. The initial bill was $72,000. Insurance paid $24,000. I had to pay $3,000 for a total of $27,000. That's because she wasn't on Medicare yet. But if we had been uninsured we would have been billed the whole $72,000.


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## AnnieA (Sep 4, 2019)

toffee said:


> UK. NHS...…… is mainly funded by taxation 80% -- the rest is funded by national stamp we pay when working .. it makes me shudder when I read about the hospital care in America ……...unless you go private and pay for a operation / and private ward ..in the UK. ALL prescription are free as well at 65 onwards ..




Nothing is free. US patients pay a portion for your free meds:

(edited to say ...Not 'you' specifically.   Big Pharma throws the most money at the US government out of all industries, and they pretty much fund their often biased research out of the wallets of Americans.)

Americans pay prices for prescription drugs that are two to six times the rest of the world, despite having personal incomes that are on par with many developed countries.

Why do Americans pay more for drugs?


.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

AnnieA said:


> Nothing is free. US patients pay a portion for your free meds:
> 
> Americans pay prices for prescription drugs that are two to six times the rest of the world, despite having personal incomes that are on par with many developed countries.
> 
> ...



I don't buy that argument for a minute. If they were not making what they consider a decent profit at the prices they sell to Canada and the UK, they wouldn't sell them. They are just gouging us because our government lets them get away with it.


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## AnnieA (Sep 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> I don't buy that argument for a minute. If they were not making what they consider a decent profit at the prices they sell to Canada and the UK, they wouldn't sell them. They are just gouging us because our government lets them get away with it.



I was editing my post #40 to reflect that as you were posting your response!


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## Patio Life (Sep 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> Oh, and one more thing.  If you don't have insurance the hospitals here will bill you anywhere from 3-5 times what they have negociated with the insurance companies for the same services. I still haven't figured out why they do this. They know these poor schmucks can't pay it. I guess it's just to stress them out and scare them into never coming back.
> 
> For example, when I had my stent put in the initial bill was $47,000. My insurance paid $12000. I paid nothing. But if I had been uninsured I would have been billed the whole $47,000.
> 
> Similar situation when my wife had her hip replacement. The initial bill was $72,000. Insurance paid $24,000. I had to pay $3,000 for a total of $27,000. That's because she wasn't on Medicare yet. But if we had been uninsured we would have been billed the whole $72,000.


I think it has something to do with having a taxable loss. There are some insane loopholes for businesses to make money but pay no taxes.


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

Patio Life said:


> I think it has something to do with having a taxable loss. There are some insane loopholes for businesses to make money but pay no taxes.



I know. It's ridiculous, in addition to being mean and immoral. They should not be allowed to charge an uninsured patient any more than an insured one. It's bad enough having to recover from an illness or injury. But then to have to face a bill there is no way that you can pay and subsequently be turned over to a collection agency and mercilessly hounded. God how I hate our health care system!


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## Lc jones (Sep 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> I suppose the Canadians who cross the border for various treatment.   Frankly, I don't care whether they'd trade systems with us.   I don't want our government running the health care system.


I agree 100%


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## Lc jones (Sep 4, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> OMG !!! $34,000 per year?... I never even paid that in mortgage payments..
> 
> Now if you were to come and live  over here you would be $34,000  a year better off
> [/


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## Lc jones (Sep 4, 2019)

I wouldn’t want the government running anything they can’t even walk my dog forget it


hollydolly said:


> Well, I'm very happy that we have the sytem we have , that's for sure, it may need improving in many ways, but at least I'm never in danger of going bankrupt over a medical bill, thank you Lord!!
> 
> I absolutely don't want to be dissing a system I know very little about, I'm just very interested in how it all works, and thanks for the explanations..  but I'm just happy I'm not in that situation.. and I hope all of you are covered in one way or another to get the medical help you need when you really need it..


I am completely covered and my government is not involved with my healthcare which is fabulous They do such a terrible job with everything else I don’t want them involved with my families life-and-death decisions God forbid


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## Trade (Sep 4, 2019)

I'm going to take a break from this thread. 

I'm getting too worked up. Gotta watch my blood pressure. Fortunately I have good insurance and was able to refill my blood pressure medication today for just $14 for a 90 day supply.


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## 911 (Sep 4, 2019)

I agreeing with Trade. One of the biggest complaints that I have had with our healthcare system is that doctors and hospitals will bill the patient at top rate, while discounting to patients with insurance. I have spoken with many people over the years who feel they are being royally screwed by the docs and hospitals.

I remember investigating a car-truck accident on the turnpike in the early 2000’s. I had to go to the hospital to interview the driver of the automobile. Even though it saved his life, he gave me a bunch of crap because I had him airlifted, which cost him $22,000 to go 14 miles. When his insurance company agreed to pay it, then he called me and apologized.

I was told by a Geneticist who works for Pfizer that Americans pay about 2/3 of how much it costs to bring a drug to market. The reason being why we pay the brunt of these costs is that the cost involved to bring a drug to market is included in the price we pay at the pharmacy. And, the reason why we pay more for our drugs than other countries is because, for example, take the U.K. They have one and only one administrator making the purchase for everyone covered by the NHS. So, with only one contractor to deal with and they are buying for
approximately 55 million people, they get really good prices. Here in the states, we have several administrators because we have several insurance companies, each negotiating prices for their company. It’s just like Walmart compared to a grocery store chain. A grocery store chain may be buying coffee for 30 stores, so they buy 30 cases of coffee. Walmart has 4700 stores, which means they buy their coffee by the truckload. Who do you think gets the better price?

We have very good doctors and hospitals. No complaints there, but it’s the costs that are out of line. The sad fact is; is that this is something that can be corrected, but thanks to the drug company’s many Lobbyists, it hasn’t happened.


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## chic (Sep 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> Are you kidding?
> 
> The last time I had to call an ambulance for my wife the bill came to somehwhere between $400 and $500 for a three mile to the hospital. And that was about 7 or 8 years ago. I'm sure it's more by now. Fortunately I had good insurance which covered it. When I got my kidney stone I called my daughter to come and take me to the ER. Sure my insurance would have covered an ambulance but I didn't want to reward those extortionists again.
> 
> As it stands now I would not call an ambulance for myself or a family member unless it's a matter of life or death. Anything less and it will be "get in the car".



Once when I sprained my ankle on an icy curb I had to pay $1,000 for an ambulance to the nearest ER a few blocks away. When my mom slipped and fell and hit her head she refused an ambulance due to the cost (she learned from my experience), and I had to drive her to our local hospital's ER. This March our hospital's ER closed. The ER of a hospital in a neighboring city is also going to close. Welcome to health care in America, which, unless you are a billionaire is just about non existent. Don't get sick here.


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

@911 , good post but just a small correction... closer to 70 million people here in the UK..


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## Ruthanne (Sep 4, 2019)

chic said:


> Once when I sprained my ankle on an icy curb I had to pay $1,000 for an ambulance to the nearest ER a few blocks away. When my mom slipped and fell and hit her head she refused an ambulance due to the cost (she learned from my experience), and I had to drive her to our local hospital's ER. This March our hospital's ER closed. The ER of a hospital in a neighboring city is also going to close. Welcome to health care in America, which, unless you are a billionaire is just about non existent. Don't get sick here.


It seems the very poor or very rich are insured well but not the middle...


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## gennie (Sep 4, 2019)

In the U.S., a young middle-income family with a child who has a long-term severe illness is almost certainly looking at bankruptcy in the future.


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> It seems the very poor or very rich are insured well but not the middle...


 This has always been my understanding...


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

gennie said:


> In the U.S., a young middle-income family with a child who has a long-term severe illness is almost certainly looking at bankruptcy in the future.


 I've read  about this ..are there any statistical figures on how many working people have been made bankrupt due to the cost of medical bills ..do you know?


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## gennie (Sep 4, 2019)

I don't, hollydolly, but everyone I know can tell you of a close family friend or relative that it has happened to.


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## gennie (Sep 4, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> This has always been my understanding...



Exactly


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## Patio Life (Sep 4, 2019)

When we were in Spain I pulled (very badly) the ligaments in my knee. With no insurance coverage for the EU I put off going to a Dr - until it hurt so bad I could not walk at all. It was VERY painful, trying not to scream painful.

Took a taxi to the ER in Córdoba. Everyone was very nice. I explained I had no insurance to the admissions desk. Saw a Dr. in about 5 minutes who spoke a bit of English. After the exam, prescription, advise on what to do. I told him I had no insurance, what do I do? 

He looked at me like I had to heads and said "Medical care is free for everyone here." I looked at him like he had two heads. The nice lady wheeled me out to get into a taxi.


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## hollydolly (Sep 4, 2019)

Patio Life said:


> When we were in Spain I pulled (very badly) the ligaments in my knee. With no insurance coverage for the EU I put off going to a Dr - until it hurt so bad I could not walk at all. It was VERY painful, trying not to scream painful.
> 
> Took a taxi to the ER in Córdoba. Everyone was very nice. I explained I had no insurance to the admissions desk. Saw a Dr. in about 5 minutes who spoke a bit of English. After the exam, prescription, advise on what to do. I told him I had no insurance, what do I do?
> 
> He looked at me like I had to heads and said "Medical care is free for everyone here." I looked at him like he had two heads. The nice lady wheeled me out to get into a taxi.


  Having lived in Spain for many years I have to agree with you, medical treatment is free, but we as foreign visitors need to carry an E111 Card, which just means that the NHS wil pay for any treatment that's required if we're there on holiday and not residents.

My daughter lives and works in Spain, she has private medical insurance, and she gets outstanding treatment, which covers absolutely everything, from the most minor of things to the most major of treatments incuding physio, X-rays, Mri's, , and all sorts of treaments.. and she gets to see a top specialist within a couple of days. For that she pays just 600 euros per year!!


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## Trade (Sep 5, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> Having lived in Spain for many years I have to agree with you, medical treatment is free, but we as foreign visitors need to carry an E111 Card, which just means that the NHS wil pay for any treatment that's required if we're there on holiday and not residents.
> 
> My daughter lives and works in Spain, she has private medical insurance, and she gets outstanding treatment, which covers absolutely everything, from the most minor of things to the most major of treatments incuding physio, X-rays, Mri's, , and all sorts of treaments.. and she gets to see a top specialist within a couple of days. For that she pays just 600 euros per year!!



Here the going rate for private insurance is also about $600. A month. That will get you a plan with a $6000 dollar a year deductable. So in a year you will pay $7200 in premiums, plus another $6000 in deductible, for a total of $13,200 out of pocket before your insurance kicks in the first penny. I'm not making this up. My neighbor across the street and a friend of mine that lives out in California both make a little too much to qualify for an Obamacare subsidy and have told me that this is the best deal they could find. Neither one of them have insurance because of this. That's the situation with Obamacare. If you are dirt poor the government will subsidize most of your insurance. But if your income is just a little over the threshold to qualify for a subsidy, you are screwed.


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## hollydolly (Sep 5, 2019)

Just to reiterate, my daughter pays 600 Euros_ *per year*_ for private medical 

A few years ago she had a major accident after falling from a cliff onto  slate chippings...  She was wearing just shorts and a little vest top , so nothing to protect her at all. Her legs were shredded  from foot to thigh, and two fingers on her right hand were torn almost completely  off.







The Spanish medical system was fantastic, they sewed the fingers back on, and her hands  to this day apart from the fact she can't grip with them and she suffers some residual pain which is helped by using Turmeric... her hands look as though she's never had an injury.

Since the surgery  she's had all sorts of regular physio on them from top physiotherapists.. .. further to that she's had other medical treatment that we in the Uk would wait months for on the NHS... and no deductibles,  no increases on her premiums..and all for 600 euros per year!!

here in the Uk for a similar  private medical insurance , we'd be looking at around £800 per month... and then added extras for certain procedures.  The dubious benefit of private medical insurance in the UK is that we get to see a consultant much quicker...OTOH...we an choose to pay a lump sum for a one off procedure , for example I paid to have an MRI scan just last year  rather than wait 6 months on the NHS..and the cost was £200 for the scan, and £250 for the consultants fees.., but I got the scan done the day after I requested  it..
_
_


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## 911 (Sep 5, 2019)

Over 50% of all bankruptcies filed in the U.S are due to medical bills, according to a website that I like to read now and again www.thebalance.com. 

Thankfully, I pay very little for medical insurance compared to some of the numbers that I have read here. I have known some very good people that have lost a lot because of high medical bills. I have also known a person that filed and was granted bankruptcy. He took a big hit and has been paying for it ever since. Let's see, he lost his house, his savings, and 10 years of bad credit. And, oh yeah, he also got a divorce. It seems that the bankruptcy took a very big toll and caused a lot of stress in their marriage. 

Personally, I blame our legislators for this. We (the U.S.) have no problem spending zillions on wars, but when it comes to spending money on health and education, they will fight tooth and nail not to spend a dime on fixing these problems. Have you ever noticed in any presidential debate that medical concerns are either not talked about or they will skim over them? The moment any politician begins talking about any other country's healthcare system, someone yells that he/she is trying to turn the U.S. into a socialist republic. That seems to work, only because no one understands why parts of socialism may be a good thing, especially when it comes to medical care. Look at how much is spent on just getting or trying to get elected cost. Well over one billion dollars for each candidate. That's totally insane to want a job that pays $400,000.00 per year. 

I was talking to a few men older than me a few weeks back at a social club that I belong to. They were talking about the same thing as us, medical costs. The one gentleman stated that the government doesn't take care of the seniors in this country because they want us to die. He goes on saying that Seniors have served their purpose and have now over-stayed their welcome. When we die, the government saves money, especially if one of us is being treated for cancer. 

You know, maybe he has something there.


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## Lc jones (Sep 5, 2019)

911 said:


> Over 50% of all bankruptcies filed in the U.S are due to medical bills, according to a website that I like to read now and again www.thebalance.com.
> 
> Thankfully, I pay very little for medical insurance compared to some of the numbers that I have read here. I have known some very good people that have lost a lot because of high medical bills. I have also known a person that filed and was granted bankruptcy. He took a big hit and has been paying for it ever since. Let's see, he lost his house, his savings, and 10 years of bad credit. And, oh yeah, he also got a divorce. It seems that the bankruptcy took a very big toll and caused a lot of stress in their marriage.
> 
> ...


Sad but probably true


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## Capt Lightning (Sep 5, 2019)

Another thing is that the cost of healthcare depends on what part of the UK you live in.  Generally, those in England pay for prescriptions, eye tests etc.,  while they're free in other parts of the UK.

I worked most of my career for a company that paid for private healthcare.  It was taxed as a 'perk', but it was cheap for what it gave me and my family. That was fantastic - no waiting lists, private hospital etc..   Now I'm retired, I'm at the mercy of the NHS.  Now, the NHS is great if you have an emergency, but waiting times can be horrendous if you have a minor problem that needs treated. At least, I won't get a bill.


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## Liberty (Sep 5, 2019)

Ok, lets talk medicare and a good medigap policy.  What is wrong with this?  To me, its great except they don't pay for dental and eye glasses.  Otherwise, we've had no problem and my mother (who lived with us) never did either.  She had an ambulance, helicopter and was in the hospital for 3 weeks before she passed away.  Zero pay.

Just wondering if a lot these med issues are happening before you are old enough to be on medicare and a good supplement ( which pays 100%)?!


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## Trade (Sep 5, 2019)

Liberty said:


> Just wondering if a lot these med issues are happening before you are old enough to be on medicare and a good supplement ( which pays 100%)?!



The two individuals that I described in reply #60 above are both in their early 60's and counting the days until they are eligible for Medicare. Neither of them have an employer plan. And both are letting medical issues go unaddressed because they are afraid of the cost bankrupting them. So when they hit 65 and get on Medicare these issues that are going untreated will be even worse and cost more to treat. 

That's one of the reasons I favor expanding Medicare to cover everyone. So that people can get the treatment they need early before the condition gets worse.


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## 911 (Sep 5, 2019)

Trade said:


> The two individuals that I described in reply #60 above are both in their early 60's and counting the days until they are eligible for Medicare. Neither of them have an employer plan. And both are letting medical issues go unaddressed because they are afraid of the cost bankrupting them. So when they hit 65 and get on Medicare these issues that are going untreated will be even worse and cost more to treat.
> 
> That's one of the reasons I favor expanding Medicare to cover everyone. So that people can get the treatment they need early before the condition gets worse.


Trade, that has been proposed, but it never even made it to the floor. But, I think it would work well, if we could keep all of the crooked doctors from double and triple billing.


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## hollydolly (Sep 5, 2019)

Capt Lightning said:


> Another thing is that the cost of healthcare depends on what part of the UK you live in.  Generally, those in England pay for prescriptions, eye tests etc.,  while they're free in other parts of the UK.
> 
> I worked most of my career for a company that paid for private healthcare.  It was taxed as a 'perk', but it was cheap for what it gave me and my family. That was fantastic - no waiting lists, private hospital etc..   Now I'm retired, I'm at the mercy of the NHS.  Now, the NHS is great if you have an emergency, but waiting times can be horrendous if you have a minor problem that needs treated. At least, I won't get a bill.


Over 60 we don't pay for eye tests or prescription  in England...  what _is_ annoying is that we have to pay HUGE parking charges at hospitals while we subside England and Wales who get free parking and free bus passes..!!


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## Liberty (Sep 5, 2019)

Trade said:


> The two individuals that I described in reply #60 above are both in their early 60's and counting the days until they are eligible for Medicare. Neither of them have an employer plan. And both are letting medical issues go unaddressed because they are afraid of the cost bankrupting them. So when they hit 65 and get on Medicare these issues that are going untreated will be even worse and cost more to treat.
> 
> That's one of the reasons I favor expanding Medicare to cover everyone. So that people can get the treatment they need early before the condition gets worse.


That's what I think Trade...my mother in law spent 9 years in a nursing home before she died.
If you realize what is going on and take the precautions of putting your estate in your son or daughter's name or whatever  5 years before you might be going into the "bone yard"...that's what its all about.  Have no problem with medicare.  They just need to add dental and vision to it. Otherwise, no problem with USA senior care. Let me explain here though that my mom had cataracts operated on it it didn't cost her a dime...when I say vision, I mean like just eyeglasses. 
Am I correct here or need enlightenment, guys?!


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## chic (Sep 5, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> Just to reiterate, my daughter pays 600 Euros_ *per year*_ for private medical
> 
> A few years ago she had a major accident after falling from a cliff onto  slate chippings...  She was wearing just shorts and a little vest top , so nothing to protect her at all. Her legs were shredded  from foot to thigh, and two fingers on her right hand were torn almost completely  off.
> 
> ...



Holly I'm so glad your daughter came out of that so well. Kudos to the Spanish health care system.


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## hollydolly (Sep 5, 2019)

chic said:


> Holly I'm so glad your daughter came out of that so well. Kudos to the Spanish health care system.


 Thank you so much Chic, !! Her fingers will never be perfect again, but they're as close to it that they could possibly be, given the circumstances the surgeons were presented with...


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## Patio Life (Sep 5, 2019)

Liberty said:


> Ok, lets talk medicare and a good medigap policy.  What is wrong with this?  To me, its great except they don't pay for dental and eye glasses.  Otherwise, we've had no problem and my mother (who lived with us) never did either.  She had an ambulance, helicopter and was in the hospital for 3 weeks before she passed away.  Zero pay.
> 
> Just wondering if a lot these med issues are happening before you are old enough to be on medicare and a good supplement ( which pays 100%)?!


If you have pre-existing conditions, as I do, medigap is unaffordable. At least it was for me. 30% of my income. Or they may have changed the premium structure, I am 65 and qualified for Medicare last year.


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## Patio Life (Sep 5, 2019)

Trade said:


> The two individuals that I described in reply #60 above are both in their early 60's and counting the days until they are eligible for Medicare. Neither of them have an employer plan. And both are letting medical issues go unaddressed because they are afraid of the cost bankrupting them. So when they hit 65 and get on Medicare these issues that are going untreated will be even worse and cost more to treat.
> 
> That's one of the reasons I favor expanding Medicare to cover everyone. So that people can get the treatment they need early before the condition gets worse.


I know many people who put off care due to cost. Unless it's going to kill them or stop them from working - they don't see a Dr.


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## chic (Sep 6, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> Thank you so much Chic, !! Her fingers will never be perfect again, but they're as close to it that they could possibly be, given the circumstances the surgeons were presented with...



Good news, make her wear protect gloves next time she hikes in rugged terrain. If she still listens to Mum.


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## Capt Lightning (Sep 6, 2019)

HollyDolly, you're quite correct that in England , prescriptions for over 60's are free, but they are free to all ages elsewhere.  Same with eye tests.  At most Scottish hospitals, parking is free.  At Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, a multi storey car park was built, financed by a philanthropic trust.  There's also a regular bus service to the hospital.


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## hollydolly (Sep 6, 2019)

chic said:


> Good news, make her wear protect gloves next time she hikes in rugged terrain. If she still listens to Mum.


She wasn't hiking Chic... she was pulled over the cliff by an aggressive dog  attacking another.. while she was holding the leash and trying to protect her dog from serious injury..


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## hollydolly (Sep 6, 2019)

Capt Lightning said:


> HollyDolly, you're quite correct that in England , prescriptions for over 60's are free, but they are free to all ages elsewhere.  Same with eye tests.  *At most Scottish hospitals, parking is free.  At Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, a multi storey car park was built, financed by a philanthropic trust.  There's also a regular bus service to the hospital.*


_
That's my point Capt, it's NOT free _here, we subsidize that for Scotland &  Wales, but don't get it ourselves...  our parking charges are astronomically high, and  what about Free University tuition fees? which our young don't get here.., and free or almost free personal care for the elderly,   again not available here... ?

_
As for prescription costs... all Prescriptions for anyone age 16 or over until 60, costs  over £8 in England  per item ( not per prescription but per item) ... *not* in Scotland tho'..NO-one pays for a prescription there.. until they're over 60...
I don't want to get into Politics, but God help you all if wee jimmy cranky gets her way for independence,  the Scots will realise just how much we English taxpayers have been cushioning them all these years at the expense of ourselves and our kids education..

Naturally I'm not blaming you, the irony being that you're not a Scot, ( albeit that you live there)  and I am... but living in England as I do I had to pay my own daughters university tuition fees and also contribute to Scottish kids as well as every other Englishman *..*_


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## Capt Lightning (Sep 6, 2019)

HollyDolly,  Although I spent most of my life in England, my parents were Scottish and I did live there. Mother said that she wished the family had settled with her folks in Glasgow, and I said, Oh dear, we might all have been Weegies!  

I sometimes wonder where 'home' is - I've lived several places, so I just say "British" and 'wherever I lay my hat, that's my home'.  So, till I moved back to my spiritual and ancestral homeland, I had to pay for prescriptions (work paid for eye tests for IT staff) and I paid for my son and two daughters university education.  Fortunately elder daughter was awarded a full grant to cover her Phd.

Yes it's unfair that the UK has different arrangements, but it's not unfair that Scotland, Wales and N.I.,  get the benefits - it's because that the English residents dont!


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## AnnieA (Sep 6, 2019)

911 said:


> I was talking to a few men older than me a few weeks back at a social club that I belong to. They were talking about the same thing as us, medical costs. The one gentleman stated that the government doesn't take care of the seniors in this country because they want us to die. He goes on saying that Seniors have served their purpose and have now over-stayed their welcome. When we die, the government saves money, especially if one of us is being treated for cancer.
> 
> You know, maybe he has something there.



Having worked in healthcare with the elderly in several different setting such as dialysis, long-term care, I disagree with that.  Especially since the 2003 Medicare drug coverage changes.   Medicare with a supplement puts 65+ at about the best overall covered group in the country. Those who are poor enough to qualify for Medicaid along with Medicare hardly pay anything at all.


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## hollydolly (Sep 6, 2019)

Capt Lightning said:


> HollyDolly,  Although I spent most of my life in England, my parents were Scottish and I did live there. Mother said that she wished the family had settled with her folks in Glasgow, and I said, *Oh dear, we might all have been weegies*



*






 how very dare you, I'm a Weegie ....


Sorry for going off topic, folks... *


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## Capt Lightning (Sep 6, 2019)

Which part?  My mother's family  was from Denistoun.  Father's was from near Melrose.

Getting back to the subject,  of our friends in the village, one is from Kent and the other from (I believe) Michigan.  Both had worked in Asia, but on returning to the UK, had considered  re-locating to the U.S.  The major reason for not going was the cost of health insurance because of existing problems.
As an aside, although now a UK resident, our American friend is now being hounded by the US tax people as I gather that the US tax system is based on citizenship, not residency.


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## hollydolly (Sep 6, 2019)

I don't wanna take this off topic... but nowhere near Dennistoun ..the very opposite in fact.. 

I was born and raised there.. I'll PM you...


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## Rosemarie (Sep 7, 2019)

Thank you all for answering my query. It has made me appreciate how lucky we are here in the UK. I have a penfriend in America. Her husband was involved in an accident which resulted in long-term health problems. Then she was diagnosed with cancer, and needed surgery and chemo. She was forced to return to work before she had fully recovered, to pay off the medical bills.


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## StarSong (Sep 7, 2019)

There is another side of this.  Most of us probably know at least one person who qualifies as a medical over-user.  

A neighbor had very good medicare and gap insurance. Let me tell you, she used that insurance like it was a job to do so. Although she was generally healthy (had easily managed type 2 diabetes but no other health problems), she was a lonely, very elderly woman whose friends had died, moved, or evaporated from her life due to conflicts. 

Her resultingly empty social calendar started to fill with various doctor appointments. She considered her doctors to be "friends," and while it's important to have trusting relationships with medial personnel, she became truly wasteful of their time and our Medicare tax doctors. The docs didn't turn her away because, after all, they were getting paid to see an unchallenging patient that they shot the breeze with for ten minutes. (I accompanied her on a couple of visits which is how I know what went down.) 

She hit doctors at least twice a week for ten years, I kid you not. Various abuses of the system are legion, whether it's over billing, overuse, or outright fraud.


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## Liberty (Sep 7, 2019)

StarSong said:


> There is another side of this.  Most of us probably know at least one person who qualifies as a medical over-user.
> 
> A neighbor had very good medicare and gap insurance. Let me tell you, she used that insurance like it was a job to do so. Although she was generally healthy (had easily managed type 2 diabetes but no other health problems), she was a lonely, very elderly woman whose friends had died, moved, or evaporated from her life due to conflicts.
> 
> ...


You made me remember Star, my mother in law, for years would keep taking different drugs.  She lived in a nice retirement center, and doctors would  come there to see her.  Kept telling her about "drug interaction" and how not to keep taking all the different meds.  Knew her well, as she used to live with us.  She was pretty much healthy as a good horse  if you know what I mean.

But, she thought the doctor could do no wrong.  She wound up in the hospital.  I told the charge nurse, bet its drug interaction.  She spent 60 days in - they let her out one day - put her back in for some more time and the nurse then warned us about one of the drugs she'd been given that caused kidney problems.  Sure enough, she started turning yellow. When we raised cane and got her out, "drug interaction" or "medical misadventure" as they so humorously put it was the diagnosis...of course medicare had paid for all of it!

She died many years later.  

But


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## Robert59 (Nov 15, 2019)

Liberty said:


> You made me remember Star, my mother in law, for years would keep taking different drugs.  She lived in a nice retirement center, and doctors would  come there to see her.  Kept telling her about "drug interaction" and how not to keep taking all the different meds.  Knew her well, as she used to live with us.  She was pretty much healthy as a good horse  if you know what I mean.
> 
> But, she thought the doctor could do no wrong.  She wound up in the hospital.  I told the charge nurse, bet its drug interaction.  She spent 60 days in - they let her out one day - put her back in for some more time and the nurse then warned us about one of the drugs she'd been given that caused kidney problems.  Sure enough, she started turning yellow. When we raised cane and got her out, "drug interaction" or "medical misadventure" as they so humorously put it was the diagnosis...of course medicare had paid for all of it!
> 
> ...


Was your mother in law on a drug for Diabetes called metformin because I have a girlfriend that was taking  2000mgs for two years and now she has stage 3 kidney damage.


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## Liberty (Nov 16, 2019)

Robert59 said:


> Was your mother in law on a drug for Diabetes called metformin because I have a girlfriend that was taking  2000mgs for two years and now she has stage 3 kidney damage.


Nope.  She didn't have diabetes or anything else like that, as far as I know of.  She did retain fluid, so probably one med was a water pill.  The med that they gave her in the hospital, which was a different med caused the yellow jaundice.  The nurse had alerted us to that after the doc prescribed.


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## Liberty (Nov 16, 2019)

Robert59 said:


> Was your mother in law on a drug for Diabetes called metformin because I have a girlfriend that was taking  2000mgs for two years and now she has stage 3 kidney damage.


That is sad about your friend.  God bless her.


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## MarciKS (Mar 14, 2021)

Air ambulance here is $20,000 now. I think an ambulance runs $800 or $900. Hell it may be a $1000 by now. I forget what mom said dad's ambulance ride cost. Might have been $1500. I don't know without asking her again. It's $2000 here with ins. for the ER. $500 of which goes to the ER doc. Then the radiology bill is another $500 on top of the remaining $1500 of the ER bill. Which may have gone up this year. 

I'll find out soon enough. Regular office visits are in the neighborhood of $200 a pop. If you don't have insurance usually they give you a cheaper price. For example...with ins. back home my office visit was $85. Without it...it was $55. They pad it for the ins. purposes. Which I think is a bunch of BS. The docs can turn you away for surgery if you don't have insurance cuz God forbid they not get their money for their summer home in New England or wherever the hell they hang out.

The FMLA was supposed to be to help keep people from losing their ins. benefits but because I can't afford to have short term and long term disability coverage...I got listed as STD for this rib and now I may lose my ins. & have to start over next year. One way or another they're gonna screw you for every dime they can get out of you.


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## MarciKS (Mar 14, 2021)

Robert59 said:
Was your mother in law on a drug for Diabetes called metformin because I have a girlfriend that was taking 2000mgs for two years and now she has stage 3 kidney damage.

OMG @Robert59 they wanted to give me that crap. I'm glad I couldn't take it. Sorry she's having troubles.


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## Lewkat (Mar 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> But would they call something like a sprain in  an old or poor person.. an emergency Ruthanne?..I'm sorry  I'm only trying to learn it just seems so complicated to me.. thanks all for answering my questions.. We're so lucky here, and I hope none of you believe president trump telling you our hospitals  are like Beirut..LOL...we may have long waits to see consultants and hospital emergency rooms are shutting down at a rate of knots  but we do get the best treatment at source ..


Holly, if an elderly person sprains an ankle in the U.S. or wrist, say, some people will call and ambulance to transport them to the E. R. for and x-ray as the elderly often wind up with a fracture instead.  There is insurance to cover these ambulances, when they are called through our 911 system and not a private ambulance service.  We do have a system whereby when 911 is called, paramedics and police arrive, assess the situation and determine as to whether the patient needs to go to the hospital.


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## Lewkat (Mar 15, 2021)

40 or 50 years ago, employers gave their full time employees, major medical which covered everything from an ingrown toenail to crisis medicine.  Several insurance companies from different states issued this insurance.  During an economic down turn, insurance companies decided they were losing money with this system.  Now, ins. companies are very powerful in the country, so many employers dumped full time employees and were not bound to give part timers any benefits at all.  Fair?  No?  So along came the talk of a government run system.  AFC came along, but one still had to meet a criterion to get meaningful benefits.  Some still pushed for insurance companies to become competitive and also be able to cross state lines for care.  Not happening.  Cleveland Clinic has a terrific medical system whereby, anyone can get first rate care for anything and pay only according to ability to do so.  Works like a charm, but a lot of doctors eschew this as it is not profitable for them personally.  So, it comes down to dollars and cents.  In NJ, we have a Medicaid program where most doctors in our major hospitals accept it and we do benefit from excellent care.  Not all states are equal, however.  As a nurse, I feel every citizen should be able to obtain the best care medically and no one worth their salt should ever refuse to render same to a patient.  Prescriptions are outrageously expensive and until someone reins all these corporations vis a vis Wall Street in, well, the beat will just go on.


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