# Do you believe there is life other than on Earth?



## Marie5656 (Jul 26, 2017)

*I had this conversation once with a friend who is a devout Christian.  He says no....because in his view, God created Heaven and EARTH only.  No room for life on other planets.  I disagree, as I think with so many systems out there, most of which we have not explored, I think there has to be life elsewhere.  Will we ever interact with them, as in Star Wars or Star Trek.  Who knows.  Not in our lifetime.  But, as Carl Sagan once said, if there was no other life out there, it sure would be an awful waste of space.*


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## Camper6 (Jul 26, 2017)

The odds against life on other planets are pretty bad.  The universe is not a friendly place.  It's hostile.  You need just the right combination of a friendly sun, an atmosphere that absorbs harmful rays, just the right distance from the sun so that humans can survive, and there are extremes in temperature and we only live where the temperatures are favorable.  Many place on Earth are uninhabitable.  And the most important of all.  Liquid water.  Not ice.  

We are limited to living in a zone.  Go up too high and no oxygen and you die.

They keep looking and looking and spending tons of money on exploring space.  I think they should give up and look after our own.

And it's really unique when you think of it but there are no two people exactly alike on this Earth.

So why should there be two Earth like planets.?


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## tnthomas (Jul 26, 2017)

Yes.  

  I would find it astounding to think that God would create this whole enormous universe, and not populate it with any more than just one planet full of beings.

It's amazing how hung up some people can get, with literal interpretations of _thousands of years old_ writings, that have been 

translated / interpreted across several [ancient] languages.

It's like:  they're afraid that if they make some tiny little mistake, that they are going straight to Hell.

...well, they might be anyway, but that's a different story.


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## chic (Jul 26, 2017)

I try to keep an open mind about most things, so yes, there probably is life out there. Why not? It's pompous to think we're the only life in the universe. We haven't traveled that far into it and know so little of it, and yet we say, "there's no life except on earth." How pedestrian.


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## Camper6 (Jul 26, 2017)

chic said:


> I try to keep an open mind about most things, so yes, there probably is life out there. Why not? It's pompous to think we're the only life in the universe. We haven't traveled that far into it and know so little of it, and yet we say, "there's no life except on earth." How pedestrian.



It's an argument you can't win or lose.  The evidence to date.?  Earth is the only planet we know of that has all the requirements to sustain life as we know it and in the time span of the universe we are just recent arrivals.  Not pedestrian at all.  It's science.


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## Camper6 (Jul 26, 2017)

chic said:


> I try to keep an open mind about most things, so yes, there probably is life out there. Why not? It's pompous to think we're the only life in the universe. We haven't traveled that far into it and know so little of it, and yet we say, "there's no life except on earth." How pedestrian.



It's an argument you can't win or lose.  The evidence to date.?  Earth is the only planet we know of that has all the requirements to sustain life as we know it and in the time span of the universe we are just recent arrivals.  Not pedestrian at all.  It's science.

Earth just happened to hit the jackpot in the lottery of the universe.


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## Marie5656 (Jul 26, 2017)

*The operative phrase being life "as we know it". Assuming any other life form would be O2 breathing Human like creatures.  You are right though, we only know what we know.  But It IS hard to believe there is no one out there.  We are not even sure how vast space is.

*


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## terry123 (Jul 26, 2017)

Marie5656 said:


> *The operative phrase being life "as we know it". Assuming any other life form would be O2 breathing Human like creatures.  You are right though, we only know what we know.  But It IS hard to believe there is no one out there.  We are not even sure how vast space is.
> 
> *


 I agree, Marie.


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 26, 2017)

I have no reason not to believe that life, in some form, doesn't exist on other planets.

It seems to me that if you believe that God is universal and that he created heaven and the earth it would be reasonable to believe that he may have created life on one or more of the other planets that he created.  Maybe even God had a plan B.


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## HiDesertHal (Jul 26, 2017)

Whenever I'm asked that question, I'll ask the other person what he (or she) believes, then I'll tell him (or her) "That's just how I see it too."

Then you can get to more important topics, like who will win the Pennant this year!

HDH


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## Falcon (Jul 26, 2017)

We seem to be talking about  "Life as we know it."

Now we must consider what "LIFE"   IS"

I believe it is an entity that is able to reproduce itself.


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## Camper6 (Jul 26, 2017)

Marie5656 said:


> *The operative phrase being life "as we know it". Assuming any other life form would be O2 breathing Human like creatures.  You are right though, we only know what we know.  But It IS hard to believe there is no one out there.  We are not even sure how vast space is.
> 
> *



I know what you are saying because we are accustomed to thinking that way.

There's a pile of horse manure so there has to be a pony out there somewhere.   But that pony might have died a long time ago and that pony couldn't be exactly the same as another pony.

Let's compare it to the lottery.  What are the odds of your ticket being drawn even though you and millions are holding tickets.?  Sometimes the lottery is carried over for weeks.  And that doesn't compare to the universe and the requirements for life as we know it.  I'm not really interested in one eyed Mushrooms.


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## Camper6 (Jul 26, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> I have no reason not to believe that life, in some form, doesn't exist on other planets.
> 
> It seems to me that if you believe that God is universal and that he created heaven and the earth it would be reasonable to believe that he may have created life on one or more of the other planets that he created.  Maybe even God had a plan B.



But now us mere mortals are trying to figure out God?  Good Luck with that.


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## NancyNGA (Jul 26, 2017)

Falcon said:


> ...
> I believe it is an entity that is able to reproduce itself.


Yes. And with that definition I feel pretty confident there is life other than on Earth.


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## Falcon (Jul 26, 2017)

My favorite dream is to have  some  "people"  from a VERY advanced planet to come here and explain to us

how they got so "Advanced".  Like curing diseases, solving gravity problems, transporting themselves, food etc.

Ever read Aldous Huxley's   Brave New World ?


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## Sunny (Jul 26, 2017)

With all the billions and billions of other planets out there, it stands to reason that there _must _be life on some of them. Maybe on millions of them!  But we'll never know.


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## Camper6 (Jul 26, 2017)

Sunny said:


> With all the billions and billions of other planets out there, it stands to reason that there _must _be life on some of them. Maybe on millions of them!  But we'll never know.



I know, I know.  But it doesn't stand to reason. We happen to be a freak in the universe.  Just look out there with the hubble telescope and what do we find? Chaos.  

Billions of grains of sand on a beach.  Does one of them have to be a gold nugget?


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## Grampa Don (Jul 26, 2017)

I suspect that with all the billions of galaxies we know about, it's very probable that life other than on earth exists or has existed in the universe.  But, I also suspect that the odds of any intelligent life being close enough or current enough to communicate with are pretty slim.  We did indeed win the lottery.  I recently read that if the asteroid that destroyed the dinosaurs had arrived a few minutes earlier or later, we wouldn't be here.

Don


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## chic (Jul 27, 2017)

Marie5656 said:


> *The operative phrase being life "as we know it". Assuming any other life form would be O2 breathing Human like creatures.  You are right though, we only know what we know.  But It IS hard to believe there is no one out there.  We are not even sure how vast space is.
> 
> *



Exactly. There could be life forms in the universe we could never have imagined. We measure everything by ourselves and by this planet, which is naive IMO.


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## chic (Jul 27, 2017)

Sunny said:


> With all the billions and billions of other planets out there, it stands to reason that there _must _be life on some of them. Maybe on millions of them!  But we'll never know.



I agree, Sunny.


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## Camper6 (Jul 27, 2017)

Grampa Don said:


> I suspect that with all the billions of galaxies we know about, it's very probable that life other than on earth exists or has existed in the universe.  But, I also suspect that the odds of any intelligent life being close enough or current enough to communicate with are pretty slim.  We did indeed win the lottery.  I recently read that if the asteroid that destroyed the dinosaurs had arrived a few minutes earlier or later, we wouldn't be here.
> 
> Don



I love probability studies.  But we are dealing with a very narrow probability of life as we know it.

We don't even know how life got started on Earth.

Scientists know all the ingredients but they simply cannot create life from scratch.  

They can clone.  But cannot create life.


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## dpwspringer (Jul 27, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> I love probability studies.  But we are dealing with a very narrow probability of life as we know it.
> 
> We don't even know how life got started on Earth.
> 
> ...


All of this is over our pay grade, so to speak. Us humans have our limitations and understanding our role in the universe is one of them.


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## HiDesertHal (Jul 27, 2017)

Fools give you Theories...wise men never try!

HDH


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## Grampa Don (Jul 27, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> I love probability studies.  But we are dealing with a very narrow probability of life as we know it.
> 
> We don't even know how life got started on Earth.  That's true.
> 
> ...



Don


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## Grampa Don (Jul 27, 2017)

HiDesertHal said:


> Fools give you Theories...wise men never try!
> 
> HDH



Fools like Albert Einstein?

Don


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## HiDesertHal (Jul 27, 2017)

Grampa Don said:


> Fools like Albert Einstein?
> 
> Don



No, today's Einsteins are Michio Kaku and Stephen Hawking.

See?


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 27, 2017)

Well, it is one of two things.
#1. Earth is the only planet with life.
#2. Life developed on other planets.

To this day, we haven't found how life evolved from ooze to living matter. But the parts, which are use to build life, are abundant.


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## Grampa Don (Jul 27, 2017)

HiDesertHal said:


> No, I mean fools like Alphonse Capone, Benito Mussolini, and Richard Nixon.
> 
> Today's Einsteins are Michio Kaku and Stephen Hawking.
> 
> See?



I see.  I didn't know Capone, Mussolini, or Nixon were big on theories.  I thought Capone was just a gangster, Mussolini a dictator and Nixon just a little sneaky.

Don


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## HiDesertHal (Jul 27, 2017)

Grampa Don said:


> I see.  I didn't know Capone, Mussolini, or Nixon were big on theories.  I thought Capone was just a gangster, Mussolini a dictator and Nixon just a little sneaky.
> 
> Don



OK, they WEREN'T  big on theories, Gramps!


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## HiDesertHal (Jul 27, 2017)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Well, it is one of two things.
> #1. Earth is the only planet with life.
> #2. Life developed on other planets.
> 
> To this day, we haven't found how life evolved from ooze to living matter. But the parts, which are use to build life, are abundant.



What would Darwin say about it?


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## Camper6 (Jul 27, 2017)

chic said:


> Exactly. There could be life forms in the universe we could never have imagined. We measure everything by ourselves and by this planet, which is naive IMO.



We don't care about other life forms.  We are only interested in life as we know it.  Everything else is not worrying about.  We have plenty of other life forms on our own planet.  

There may be mosses and microbes but who cares?

However.  Our closest contacts.  The moon.  Nothing. Not even a mosquito.  Mars. Nothing just an uninhabitable desert.

If life was so common we should be able to find it in our own planetary system.  But it's not that common as some would have us believe.

They find water elsewhere and it's not H20.  I have followed this topic since I was about 12 years of age.

Scientists at one time believed we were the only life forms.  Then they changed.  Now they are com ing back to the theory that everything out there we are finding is just too hostile for our life type.  Even an extreme orbit of a planet around a sun eliminates that planet because of too much extreme.


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## helenbacque (Jul 27, 2017)

Marie5656 said:


> *The operative phrase being life "as we know it". Assuming any other life form would be O2 breathing Human like creatures.  You are right though, we only know what we know.  But It IS hard to believe there is no one out there.  We are not even sure how vast space is.
> 
> *



Exactly.


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## helenbacque (Jul 27, 2017)

Falcon said:


> We seem to be talking about  "Life as we know it."
> 
> Now we must consider what "LIFE"   IS"
> 
> I believe it is an entity that is able to reproduce itself.


 
I agree.  Well said, Falcon


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## helenbacque (Jul 27, 2017)

I think the 1938 Orson Wells radio broadcast, _"The War of the Worlds", _and the reported 'panic' it instilled encouraged the government to be secretive about phenomenon not easily explained.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_(radio_drama)


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## Camper6 (Jul 27, 2017)

helenbacque said:


> I agree.  Well said, Falcon



But in all this and all the money being spent and the research.  They are not looking for mushrooms. They are looking for intelligent beings who can communicate with us.  Why then all those monster antennas and searching for signals? Able to reproduce itself is Life.?  Bacteria can reproduce itself and so can a virus.


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## tnthomas (Jul 27, 2017)

chic said:


> Exactly. There could be life forms in the universe we could never have imagined. We measure everything by ourselves and by this planet, which is naive IMO.



Very naive.     Life does not have to Be_ just like us_, to be interesting or to be worth while looking for.


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## Camper6 (Jul 27, 2017)

tnthomas said:


> Very naive.     Life does not have to Be_ just like us_, to be interesting or to be worth while looking for.



Then they better stop looking for things that are not like us and trying to communicate.

Please don't comment about being naive.

Do you want a science discussion or a science-fiction discussion.?


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## tnthomas (Jul 27, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Then they better stop looking for things that are not like us and trying to communicate.



Why?



Camper6 said:


> Please don't comment about being naive.



Are you sensitive about being naive?



Camper6 said:


> Do you want a science discussion or a science-fiction discussion.?



If you were the original poster, you could set the ground rules...but, you're not.


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## Lon (Jul 27, 2017)

Yes


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## Grampa Don (Jul 27, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> But in all this and all the money being spent and the research.  They are not looking for mushrooms. They are looking for intelligent beings who can communicate with us.  Why then all those monster antennas and searching for signals? Able to reproduce itself is Life.?  Bacteria can reproduce itself and so can a virus.



Those giant antennas are not just looking for intelligent signals.  Radio astronomy is a major field of research.  Wavelengths that are invisible to our eyes have greatly broadened our knowledge of what's out there.  If they should stumble on an intelligent signal or other sign of life it would be great.  But, that's not the main reason they are being built and used.  One use is to communicate with the various probes and rovers we have scattered about.  Imagine how weak the signal must be from the New Horizons probe that just flew past Pluto.

Also, I think you are inferring that bacteria are not alive.  I'm not sure why.  IF it weren't for their growth, we wouldn't have cheese or yogurt.  Virus is maybe debatable.  

Don


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## Marie5656 (Jul 27, 2017)

If you were the original poster, you could set the ground rules...but, you're not.[/QUOTE]


As the topic's OP..I set no ground rules except that everyone's opinion is welcome.  I simply put the topic out there for some lively discussion, to which we as earth bound, non science experts simply have speculation.  This conversation is going just as I hoped.  Carry on, and enjoy the discussion


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## Camper6 (Jul 27, 2017)

Grampa Don said:


> Those giant antennas are not just looking for intelligent signals.  Radio astronomy is a major field of research.  Wavelengths that are invisible to our eyes have greatly broadened our knowledge of what's out there.  If they should stumble on an intelligent signal or other sign of life it would be great.  But, that's not the main reason they are being built and used.  One use is to communicate with the various probes and rovers we have scattered about.  Imagine how weak the signal must be from the New Horizons probe that just flew past Pluto.
> 
> Also, I think you are inferring that bacteria are not alive.  I'm not sure why.  IF it weren't for their growth, we wouldn't have cheese or yogurt.  Virus is maybe debatable.
> 
> Don



This is what I am talking about.

*The search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI) is a collective term for scientific searches for intelligent extraterrestrial life, for example, monitoring electromagnetic radiation for signs of transmissions from civilizations on other worlds.

The claim was that life means something that can reproduce itself and that's why I used bacteria and virus.   We are not looking for those we are looking for intelligent extraterrestrial life.
*


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## Camper6 (Jul 27, 2017)

_Are you sensitive about being naive?

_I'm sensitive about you calling me naive. The rule is no personal comments on another poster.


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## Camper6 (Jul 27, 2017)

Marie5656 said:


> If you were the original poster, you could set the ground rules...but, you're not.




As the topic's OP..I set no ground rules except that everyone's opinion is welcome.  I simply put the topic out there for some lively discussion, to which we as earth bound, non science experts simply have speculation.  This conversation is going just as I hoped.  Carry on, and enjoy the discussion[/QUOTE]

I took the opening post and question of life to mean other beings like us for life on other worlds.


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## Grampa Don (Jul 27, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> As the topic's OP..I set no ground rules except that everyone's opinion is welcome.  I simply put the topic out there for some lively discussion, to which we as earth bound, non science experts simply have speculation.  This conversation is going just as I hoped.  Carry on, and enjoy the discussion



I took the opening post and question of life to mean other beings like us for life on other worlds.[/QUOTE]

Ah! Now I know where you're coming from.  I agree that intelligent life forms are far less likely than simple life to occur.  But, the universe is so vast, that I wouldn't rule it out.  However, the distances are also so vast that I doubt whether we will ever detect either one.  I suspect it will be one of those questions that will never be answered.  Of course, if someone were to invent warp drive???

Don


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## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Well, it is one of two things.
> #1. Earth is the only planet with life.
> #2. Life developed on other planets.
> 
> To this day, we haven't found how life evolved from ooze to living matter. But the parts, which are use to build life, are abundant.



Only under the right circumstances.  Just think of it.  Billions of persons have been born and died and no two exactly alike not even twins.  What are the odds?


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## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

Grampa Don said:


> I took the opening post and question of life to mean other beings like us for life on other worlds.



Ah! Now I know where you're coming from.  I agree that intelligent life forms are far less likely than simple life to occur.  But, the universe is so vast, that I wouldn't rule it out.  However, the distances are also so vast that I doubt whether we will ever detect either one.  I suspect it will be one of those questions that will never be answered.  Of course, if someone were to invent warp drive???

Don[/QUOTE]

Well.  So far in the immediate vicinity, zilch.  If life was common elsewhere surely we would have found evidence on the moon or even on Mars.  Of course Mercury and Venus are out of the question.

Warp drive?  The top limit is the speed of light.  The transporter is fun to watch but it's science fiction.


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## HiDesertHal (Jul 28, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Only under the right circumstances.  Just think of it.  Billions of persons have been born and died and no two exactly alike not even twins.  What are the odds?



Yes, but every Snowflake is exactly the same in crystalline structure as every snowflake that has ever fallen.

Dr. Emil Janus said so!

hdh


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## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

HiDesertHal said:


> Yes, but every Snowflake is exactly the same in crystalline structure as every snowflake that has ever fallen.
> 
> Dr. Emil Janus said so!
> 
> hdh



But no two alike?  What are the odds of two being alike is my point.  And then what are the odds of two planets being alike that can support life as we know it.

I know everyone takes the scattergun approach and says surely with all the millions of planets out there one must be similar to Earth and supporting life as we know it with intelligent beings.

But those millions are exactly the odds of that happening.


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## Grampa Don (Jul 28, 2017)

"Space is big.  Really big.  You just won’t believe  how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is.  I mean you may think it’s a  long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to  space."
                             The Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy

Don


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## Marie5656 (Jul 28, 2017)

*I am enjoying this discussion.  I did not think it would take off this way.  It is giving me some interesting food for thought.  Camper6, I am just getting to know you in this thread.  Good points there.  But it does seem everyone has their own beliefs.  Personally, I think there may be other life of some sort out there.  But who knows? Certainly not me.*


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## Sunny (Jul 28, 2017)

Maybe the question would be more manageable if it were phrased:  Do you think there is intelligent, human-type life elsewhere in the universe?  That would eliminate the bacteria discussion and focus on whether there are
other thinking creatures out there.  (Of course some of the bacteria may have tiny brains.)


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## Grampa Don (Jul 28, 2017)

And then you get into the question of how intelligent.  Dinosaurs had enough intelligence to last for millions of years.  So, would a planet of dinosaurs count?  Our ancestors only 50,000 years ago were as smart as us.  But, they were still banging rocks together.  Maybe being technologically advanced would be a better criteria. That would include any creatures or even machines that were at least as advanced as us.

Don


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## Uncontrolable (Jul 28, 2017)

chic said:


> I try to keep an open mind about most things, so yes, there probably is life out there. Why not? It's pompous to think we're the only life in the universe. We haven't traveled that far into it and know so little of it, and yet we say, "there's no life except on earth." How pedestrian.


I believe you are right.  The reason why we haven't heard from our neighbors is that they live at least 4000 light years away.  Here is the deal with transportation.  Any civilization with enough energy to travel to us would not want anything we could offer.  Such a civilization would likely see us as being so primitive and new that we might not survive more than more than 150,000 years.  This amount of time is just a blink in terms of the age of the universe.  And our individual lives are only about 75 years.  We think that we are the ultimate.  But, an advanced civilization might not even define us a living beings.  This could be true if they were immortal.


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## JaniceM (Jul 28, 2017)

Marie5656 said:


> *I had this conversation once with a friend who is a devout Christian.  He says no....because in his view, God created Heaven and EARTH only.  No room for life on other planets.  I disagree, as I think with so many systems out there, most of which we have not explored, I think there has to be life elsewhere.  Will we ever interact with them, as in Star Wars or Star Trek.  Who knows.  Not in our lifetime.  But, as Carl Sagan once said, if there was no other life out there, it sure would be an awful waste of space.*



Who does your friend think created the other planets?  layful:


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## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

Grampa Don said:


> "Space is big.  Really big.  You just won’t believe  how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is.  I mean you may think it’s a  long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to  space."
> The Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy
> 
> Don



I know that.  But it doesn't rule out that Earth could be unique in all of the galaxy.  And on top of that.  We are just passing through a stage in time.  Earth could survive without humans and has done so in the past.


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## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

Sunny said:


> Maybe the question would be more manageable if it were phrased:  Do you think there is intelligent, human-type life elsewhere in the universe?  That would eliminate the bacteria discussion and focus on whether there are
> other thinking creatures out there.  (Of course some of the bacteria may have tiny brains.)



Well the opening post deals with creation and I just assumed that meant us guys.


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## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> I believe you are right.  The reason why we haven't heard from our neighbors is that they live at least 4000 light years away.  Here is the deal with transportation.  Any civilization with enough energy to travel to us would not want anything we could offer.  Such a civilization would likely see us as being so primitive and new that we might not survive more than more than 150,000 years.  This amount of time is just a blink in terms of the age of the universe.  And our individual lives are only about 75 years.  We think that we are the ultimate.  But, an advanced civilization might not even define us a living beings.  This could be true if they were immortal.




But.  The possibility exists that at this point in time over 
millions or billions of years that we are the most advanced civilization in the entire universe.


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## Marie5656 (Jul 28, 2017)

JaniceM said:


> Who does your friend think created the other planets?  layful:



He thinks God created our immediate universe...what we are able to see.  He is very literal in his thinking that what God created was only US.  He is a good guy, and I enjoy his friendship, he just has a particular way of thinking of things.


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## Grampa Don (Jul 28, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> I know that.  But it doesn't rule out that Earth could be unique in all of the galaxy.  And on top of that.  We are just passing through a stage in time.  Earth could survive without humans and has done so in the past.



You're right.  The Earth may be unique in this galaxy.  But, there are billions of galaxies.  And who knows how long we will be around.  If an asteroid as big as the one that slammed into Jupiter a few years ago hit us, we'd be gone in a blink.

I doubt whether SETI will find anything.  But, I think it's worth the look.  Curiosity brought us to where we are.  Why do we send probes all over the Solar system?  Because we're curious and want to know more about it.  Think of it as a hobby.  it doesn't put food on the table, but it feeds the soul.

Don


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## Uncontrolable (Jul 28, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> But.  The possibility exists that at this point in time over
> millions or billions of years that we are the most advanced civilization in the entire universe.


We have not been an advanced civilization, depending on your definition of advanced for more than, roughly 100,000 years.


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## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> We have not been an advanced civilization, depending on your definition of advanced for more than, roughly 100,000 years.



That may be true but in the absence of other evidence it's the best we have.


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## Sassycakes (Jul 28, 2017)

I think it could be possible that there is some kind of life on other planets. If there is do they know we exist too. Makes me wonder !:shrug:


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## Uncontrolable (Jul 28, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> That may be true but in the absence of other evidence it's the best we have.


Problem is that there is other evidence.  Evolution hasn't been at work on just our planet. The whole universe has been evolving.  There could easily be civilizations that are a couple of billion years ahead of us.  If evolution has a goal of survival, then its ultimate goal would be immortality.  We tend to think of ourselves as if we were at the top of some sort of chain.  The problem is that we have no idea what "intelligence" is.  Stuff like IQ tests are only measuring what they decide is of value as intelligence.   It is called a working definition.  Anyone could create a working definition and decide left handed people are the most intelligent.


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## nvtribefan (Jul 28, 2017)

I don't see why not.


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## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> Problem is that there is other evidence.  Evolution hasn't been at work on just our planet. The whole universe has been evolving.  There could easily be civilizations that are a couple of billion years ahead of us.  If evolution has a goal of survival, then its ultimate goal would be immortality.  We tend to think of ourselves as if we were at the top of some sort of chain.  The problem is that we have no idea what "intelligence" is.  Stuff like IQ tests are only measuring what they decide is of value as intelligence.   It is called a working definition.  Anyone could create a working definition and decide left handed people are the most intelligent.



So far not a smidge of evidence of that.  Nothing out there but us chickens.


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

nvtribefan said:


> I don't see why not.



Why not is thinking within the box.  When it comes to the universe and eternity you have to think outside the box.

We are used to a beginning and end to everything.  But it doesn't have to be that way.

Eternity means forever. No beginning and no end.  See that's hard to contemplate with our limited experience and brainpower.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 28, 2017)

nvtribefan said:


> I don't see why not.


I see texts all the time, it seems, where people make the assumption that we are the most intelligent.  Somehow they fail to notice we seem to be killing ourselves with our own waste.  Fruit flies will do this if you put them in a jar, with plenty of food and air.  What people do not seem to understand is that we, collectively decide what reality is, in any sense you can think of.  People fail to understand that our own language can be the most profound enemy we could have.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 28, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> So far not a smidge of evidence of that.  Nothing out there but us chickens.


In math, the only proof that an atom exists is a probability.  We cannot see it, but we know it is there.  The same holds true for the entire universe.  All we do is extrapolate from the small to the large.  It is probable that evolution occurs on any planet with, what we think of as life.  This is evidence from deduction and is valid evidence from which theories might be developed.  You say nothing but us chicken.  It has already be theorized that we may be nothing more than a hologram.


----------



## Grampa Don (Jul 28, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> In math, the only proof that an atom exists is a probability.  We cannot see it, but we know it is there.  The same holds true for the entire universe.  All we do is extrapolate from the small to the large.  It is probable that evolution occurs on any planet with, what we think of as life.  This is evidence from deduction and is valid evidence from which theories might be developed.  You say nothing but us chicken.  It has already be theorized that we may be nothing more than a hologram.



There are some images of individual atoms on this page in case you're interested.

Don


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> In math, the only proof that an atom exists is a probability.  We cannot see it, but we know it is there.  The same holds true for the entire universe.  All we do is extrapolate from the small to the large.  It is probable that evolution occurs on any planet with, what we think of as life.  This is evidence from deduction and is valid evidence from which theories might be developed.  You say nothing but us chicken.  It has already be theorized that we may be nothing more than a hologram.



Deduction is not evidence.  The atom was proven to exist. At first just a theory but the theory was proved to be correct.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 28, 2017)

Grampa Don said:


> There are some images of individual atoms on this page in case you're interested.
> 
> Don


Yes, I should have said it in past tense.  But the truth of it still remains.  We couldn't see an atom.  We only knew it as a probability.  Actually, the fact that we can visualize an atom now proves my point.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 28, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Deduction is not evidence.  The atom was proven to exist. At first just a theory but the theory was proved to be correct.


OK, I refuse to accept your conclusion that we are alive.  Show me evidence that we are alive that does not come from a working definition.


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 28, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> OK, I refuse to accept your conclusion that we are alive.  Show me evidence that we are alive that does not come from a working definition.



Put it to the test.  Light a candle and put your hand over it.  If you howl you are alive.

If you are dead you won't feel a thing.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 29, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Put it to the test.  Light a candle and put your hand over it.  If you howl you are alive.
> 
> If you are dead you won't feel a thing.


Sorry, that is not evidence that you are alive.  That may be evidence that you feel pain.  Just because you are animated does not prove life.  Machines are animated, but not alive.


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

If you are not alive you won't feel pain. Machines don't feel pain. Something to do with a brain.


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## beneDictus (Jul 29, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> The odds against life on other planets are pretty bad.  The universe is not a friendly place.  It's hostile.  You need just the right combination of a friendly sun, an atmosphere that absorbs harmful rays, just the right distance from the sun so that humans can survive, and there are extremes in temperature and we only live where the temperatures are favorable.  Many place on Earth are uninhabitable.  And the most important of all.  Liquid water.  Not ice.
> 
> We are limited to living in a zone.  Go up too high and no oxygen and you die.
> 
> ...



  I agree that there has been TOO much time, energy , and money wasted on what seems by all accounts to be a futile search for other ''earth-like'' planets, when said resources should be directed in fixing up the many problems on THIS planet. Doesn`t mean to say that there is no other civilisation out there somewhere, though. The mistaken assumption is that ''they'' should look a lot like US...which doesn`t make much sense, as other beings have probably evolved in a completely different way than humans...depending on their particular environment. They could be situated thousands of light years away. so, forget about ever trying to find them. Leave them alone...and begin focusing on fixing up things here on ''Terra Firma''...


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 29, 2017)

beneDictus said:


> I agree that there has been TOO much time, energy , and money wasted on what seems by all accounts to be a futile search for other ''earth-like'' planets, when said resources should be directed in fixing up the many problems on THIS planet. Doesn`t mean to say that there is no other civilisation out there somewhere, though. The mistaken assumption is that ''they'' should look a lot like US...which doesn`t make much sense, as other beings have probably evolved in a completely different way than humans...depending on their particular environment. They could be situated thousands of light years away. so, forget about ever trying to find them. Leave them alone...and begin focusing on fixing up things here on ''Terra Firma''...



I agree.  At this moment we are closer to our own extinction than we have ever been.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 29, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> If you are not alive you won't feel pain. Machines don't feel pain. Something to do with a brain.


How do you know that machines don't feel pain?  Many animals do not have, what you think of as a brain, but they will react if you burn them. See, the problem with the definition of life can be very difficult.  We call an atom an atom but we have no idea what it really is.  We can never know the essence of a thing.  A definition of a thing is not within itself.  We assign a meaning thru language.  Try to think without language.  You can[t.  You can say the evidence for life is breathing, feeling pain, eating, working, thinking, but at each stage you must define.  In short, we construct reality through our language.  We do not know what a tree really is.  But, we can eat its fruit and stand in the shade.  Buy the way.  Thanks for calling me out on the evidence issue.  You were right about that.


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

tnthomas said:


> Very naive.     Life does not have to Be_ just like us_, to be interesting or to be worth while looking for.



Well then.  Explain to me why we are looking for planets that are similar to earth that support our type of life.? Vern naive, my foot.


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> How do you know that machines don't feel pain?  Many animals do not have, what you think of as a brain, but they will react if you burn them. See, the problem with the definition of life can be very difficult.  We call an atom an atom but we have no idea what it really is.  We can never know the essence of a thing.  A definition of a thing is not within itself.  We assign a meaning thru language.  Try to think without language.  You can[t.  You can say the evidence for life is breathing, feeling pain, eating, working, thinking, but at each stage you must define.  In short, we construct reality through our language.  We do not know what a tree really is.  But, we can eat its fruit and stand in the shade.  Buy the way.  Thanks for calling me out on the evidence issue.  You were right about that.



You are going far afield with topics that are not relevant to the key discussion.  You should start a thread on it.  My contention is that Earth is a fluke in the universe, that the universe is a hostile place and we at the present time are the only living creatures at this time.  

I'm pretty sure that machines don't have a brain other than computer chips and I doubt very much that they feel pain.  I think pretty well all creatures have some type of brain to control their functions.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 29, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> You are going far afield with topics that are not relevant to the key discussion.  You should start a thread on it.  My contention is that Earth is a fluke in the universe, that the universe is a hostile place and we at the present time are the only living creatures at this time.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that machines don't have a brain other than computer chips and I doubt very much that they feel pain.  I think pretty well all creatures have some type of brain to control their functions.



What I was attempting to show you is in the realm of the metaphysical.  There is nothing I could say that would provide evidence that the universe is a hostile place, etc.  On the other hand you have no evidence that the universe is hostile accept your opinion.  In this case, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.


----------



## Grampa Don (Jul 29, 2017)

beneDictus said:


> I agree that there has been TOO much time, energy , and money wasted on what seems by all accounts to be a futile search for other ''earth-like'' planets, when said resources should be directed in fixing up the many problems on THIS planet. Doesn`t mean to say that there is no other civilisation out there somewhere, though. The mistaken assumption is that ''they'' should look a lot like US...which doesn`t make much sense, as other beings have probably evolved in a completely different way than humans...depending on their particular environment. They could be situated thousands of light years away. so, forget about ever trying to find them. Leave them alone...and begin focusing on fixing up things here on ''Terra Firma''...



Here is a link to an interesting article on the cost of SETI.  It's 2.5 million a year.  That's the same as 5 Tomahawk cruise missiles, and probably less than one Batman movie.

Don


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> What I was attempting to show you is in the realm of the metaphysical.  There is nothing I could say that would provide evidence that the universe is a hostile place, etc.  On the other hand you have no evidence that the universe is hostile accept your opinion.  In this case, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.


Howard Smith, a senior astrophysicist at Harvard, made the claim that we are alone in the universe after an analysis of the 500 planets discovered so far showed all were hostile to life. 

Dr Smith said the extreme conditions found so far on planets discovered outside out Solar System are likely to be the norm, and that the hospitable conditions on Earth could be unique. 

“We have found that most other planets and solar systems are wildly different from our own. They are very hostile to life as we know it,” he said. 

He pointed to stars such as HD10180, which sparked great excitement when it was found to be orbited by a planet of similar size and appearance to Earth. 

But the similarities turned out to be superficial. The planet lies less than two million miles from its sun, meaning it is roasting hot, stripped of its atmosphere and blasted by radiation. 

[h=2]Related Articles[/h]
[h=2][/h]


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## tnthomas (Jul 29, 2017)

For people worried about "wasting" money etc. be advised of the following:



> Funding for SETI Institute programs comes from a variety of sources.  Contrary to popular belief, and their Form 990,* no government funds are  allocated for its SETI searche*s[SUP][/SUP]– these are financed entirely by private contributions. Other astrobiology research at the SETI Institute may be funded by NASA, the National Science Foundation, or other grants and donations. Team SETI is the SETI Institute’s worldwide membership and support organization.


 source


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## Knight (Jul 29, 2017)

April 17, 2014
NASA's Kepler Discovers First Earth-Size Planet In The 'Habitable Zone' of Another Star
https://www.nasa.gov/ames/kepler/na...-planet-in-the-habitable-zone-of-another-star

Life as we know it is one thing but life in some form I think is possible. Our earth has some pretty amazing life forms when you actually think about it. 
http://listverse.com/2009/01/03/10-weird-and-wonderful-oddities-of-nature/

NASA has used technology to come a long way. Who can really say for sure that our concept of life is the only form?


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

Knight said:


> April 17, 2014
> NASA's Kepler Discovers First Earth-Size Planet In The 'Habitable Zone' of Another Star
> https://www.nasa.gov/ames/kepler/na...-planet-in-the-habitable-zone-of-another-star
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link.  It's not an easy task.  
*
"We know of just one planet where life exists -- Earth*. When we search for life outside our solar system we focus on finding planets with characteristics that mimic that of Earth," said Elisa Quintana, research scientist at the SETI Institute at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., and lead author of the paper published today in the journal Science. "Finding a habitable zone planet comparable to Earth in size is a major step forward."

Kepler-186f orbits its star once every 130-days and receives one-third the energy from its star that Earth gets from the sun, placing it nearer the outer edge of the habitable zone. On the surface of Kepler-186f, the brightness of its star at high noon is only as bright as our sun appears to us about an hour before sunset.

"Being in the habitable zone does not mean we know this planet is habitable. The temperature on the planet is strongly dependent on what kind of atmosphere the planet has," said Thomas Barclay, research scientist at the Bay Area Environmental Research Institute at Ames, and co-author of the paper. "Kepler-186f can be thought of as an Earth-cousin rather than an Earth-twin. It has many properties that resemble Earth."


----------



## Mondays child (Jul 29, 2017)

I think there is life in the Universe other than ours.
I also think we have been visited by such beings reaching back many years. There seem to be lots of things pointing to this in history.
As for the fact that its impossibly far to travel, it is for us, but our visitors could have the ability to travel through space and time.


Ok I have had my say, so I will go now if someone will pass my jacket to me. Its the one over there with the very very long sleeves with buckles on that fasten round my back.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 29, 2017)

Mondays child said:


> I think there is life in the Universe other than ours.
> I also think we have been visited by such beings reaching back many years. There seem to be lots of things pointing to this in history.
> As for the fact that its impossibly far to travel, it is for us, but our visitors could have the ability to travel through space and time.
> 
> ...



If you want to see something suspicious about potential galactic visitors look no further than the book of Genesis.  Genesis had to have been written as the result of oral tradition which was passed down from generation to generation and may have gone back as far, or farther than 100,000 years.  What the bible reports in Genesis is the time when men were becoming sentient beings.  A written language was not likely older than 10,000 to 30,000 years ago.  So where did the description of the beginning of  the universe come from.  Early man, even with the beginnings of sentience would not have any way to deduce the the big bang from knowledge they possessed.  Yet, "Let there be light."  describes the big bang just about perfectly.  All you have to assume is, if not God, who?  

I wish I was smarter then the average oyster.


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## Knight (Jul 29, 2017)

Campy habitable in terms of the kind of life we have here on earth may not be what some form of life exists out there.

I think it's possible for some form of life to adapt to an environment the same way life does on planet earth. As an example

What Lives At The Bottom Of The Mariana Trench?


Lying off the eastern coast of the Philippines is an underwater canyon so deep that you could hide Mount Everest in it with more than 3,000 meters (9,800 feet) to spare. In perpetual darkness, and faced with incredible pressure, it’s easy to imagine that the Mariana Trench is one of the most inhospitable places on Earth. And yet, somehow life still manages to not only cling on, but flourish, forming its very own unique ecosystem.


From the cold to the never-ending darkness and the unimaginable pressure, life in the deep is by no means easy. Some creatures, such as the dragonfish, produce their own light in order to attract prey, mates, or both. Others like the hatchet fish have evolved enormous eyes in order to try and catch as much of the scarce light that makes it that deep. Some creatures simply try and be avoided, which normally means either becoming translucent or red, because this absorbs any blue light that has managed to make its way down to the depths.    
http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/what-lives-marianas-trench/

I'm not saying in human form or having superior intelligence. Just pointing out that I don't know but believe it is possible.


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## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

Well anything is possible. But is it probable?

Don't forget here on Earth we have an abundance of water with our lakes and oceans.

But once again what we are really looking for is a twin Earth supporting the type of life we know.

I notice that not one poster supports my point of view. But I do have a scientist on my side who sees it the same why I do.


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## Uncontrolable (Jul 29, 2017)

Knight said:


> Campy habitable in terms of the kind of life we have here on earth may not be what some form of life exists out there.
> 
> I think it's possible for some form of life to adapt to an environment the same way life does on planet earth. As an example
> 
> ...


I think you are right on.  There is one measure of intelligence that I agree with.  Still not sure this is a true measure.  What organism, or kind organism has existed the longest on this planet.  It is likely some form of bacteria.  No matter what happens to this planet some form of microbe will exist here until the planet burns up.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 29, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Well anything is possible. But is it probable?
> 
> Don't forget here on Earth we have an abundance of water with our lakes and oceans.
> 
> ...


  There are many scientist who support the idea of panspermia.  There are few who believe that this is all there is.  The odds and probabiltiy are favored in the other direction.


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## drifter (Jul 29, 2017)

My 2 cents: I think we are alone in the universe. If others are out there we'll never find them. And if others are out there, they're probably more advanced than we are. taken one look at us and said, UGH!, we don't want to know them, don't want their land, they've already ruined it. Pass 'em by.


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## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

drifter said:


> My 2 cents: I think we are alone in the universe. If others are out there we'll never find them. And if others are out there, they're probably more advanced than we are. taken one look at us and said, UGH!, we don't want to know them, don't want their land, they've already ruined it. Pass 'em by.



So you won't be happy to converse with a one-eyed mushroom?


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> There are many scientist who support the idea of panspermia.  There are few who believe that this is all there is.  The odds and probabiltiy are favored in the other direction.



Of course.  They favor it.  That's how they get paid.


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> There are many scientist who support the idea of panspermia.  There are few who believe that this is all there is.  The odds and probabiltiy are favored in the other direction.



I look at the evidence.  Nothing so far shows anything close to civilization out there. As far as odds and probability.  It only takes one person to be right and all the others wrong as per Gallileo and other skeptics.

I'm also a skeptic on this global warming scare tactics.

I need evidence.  I looked up the historical temperatures for the city I live in.  Hardly any change at all in 100 years.  Less than one degree which is to be expected.  But if you talk to people they all insist it's getting warmer.  I wish it would. Winters here are brutal.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 29, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Of course.  They favor it.  That's how they get paid.


All scientists, working, get paid.  That is not necessarily criteria for bias. Einstein got paid.  Another thing is that all scientists have some sort of theoretical bias.  You and at least one other scientist favors the "earth only habitable planet" idea.  Hell, some scientist probably still believes the earth is flat.  Its OK because we have all the time in the world to locate the truth.  By the way, the only habitable is rapidly  moving toward a mass extinction event.  This is because we continue to fill our air, land and water with poisons.


----------



## Uncontrolable (Jul 29, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> I look at the evidence.  Nothing so far shows anything close to civilization out there. As far as odds and probability.  It only takes one person to be right and all the others wrong as per Gallileo and other skeptics.
> 
> I'm also a skeptic on this global warming scare tactics.
> 
> I need evidence.  I looked up the historical temperatures for the city I live in.  Hardly any change at all in 100 years.  Less than one degree which is to be expected.  But if you talk to people they all insist it's getting warmer.  I wish it would. Winters here are brutal.


You looked at one city where cold winters are common and decided you had enough evidence to speak for the whole planet?  You seem to be working awfully hard to convince me of the rightness of your position.  Why do you think that is?


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> You looked at one city where cold winters are common and decided you had enough evidence to speak for the whole planet?  You seem to be working awfully hard to convince me of the rightness of your position.  Why do you think that is?



Why do I think that is?  Well it's obvious.  You are trying to convince me of the rightness of your position.  It's your opinion against mine. 

I look for evidence to convince me.  If global warming affects the whole Earth it should affect me as well.

See here's the difference between me and you.  You work on speculation and probabilities.  I work on hard evidence before I'm convinced.

I think that's because I probably am older than you.  I'm 84.  I've been there and done that.

I lived though the era where doctors were promoting smoking, at least the ads did that.  I was only 12 years old but I knew smoking had to be harmful.  It just didn't make sense that sucking smoke into your lungs wasn't harmful.

I convinced all the kids on my baseball team to quit smoking if we wanted to be a winning team and we did.

Now for instance.  The claim is that the hottest year on record was 2016.  When you examine that claim, the amount is so insignificant it's not worth talking about.


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> All scientists, working, get paid.  That is not necessarily criteria for bias. Einstein got paid.  Another thing is that all scientists have some sort of theoretical bias.  You and at least one other scientist favors the "earth only habitable planet" idea.  Hell, some scientist probably still believes the earth is flat.  Its OK because we have all the time in the world to locate the truth.  By the way, the only habitable is rapidly  moving toward a mass extinction event.  This is because we continue to fill our air, land and water with poisons.



That's nonsense. There is no evidence of that. I mean if you want to believe that doomsday scenario that's your business.

I think they are F.O.S. 

There was a guy standing on the corner here dressed in a burlap sack with a sign that said, the end of the world is coming, what will you be doing at the end of the world.

One thing for certain.  I wouldn't be standing on the corner of the street dressed in a burlap bag.

It's up to you if you want to believe nutty people.  I don't.

Look at previous generations.  The Romans.  They had a good time.  The Greeks they had a good time.  The English. They had a good time.

The Earth is still here in spite of them and we should have a good time while we are here.


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## Camper6 (Jul 29, 2017)

drifter said:


> My 2 cents: I think we are alone in the universe. If others are out there we'll never find them. And if others are out there, they're probably more advanced than we are. taken one look at us and said, UGH!, we don't want to know them, don't want their land, they've already ruined it. Pass 'em by.



Good for you.  They can't prove you wrong.


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 30, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> All scientists, working, get paid.  That is not necessarily criteria for bias. Einstein got paid.  Another thing is that all scientists have some sort of theoretical bias.  You and at least one other scientist favors the "earth only habitable planet" idea.  Hell, some scientist probably still believes the earth is flat.  Its OK because we have all the time in the world to locate the truth.  By the way, the only habitable is rapidly  moving toward a mass extinction event.  This is because we continue to fill our air, land and water with poisons.



We have hard evidence that the Earth is not flat. That argument is without merit. It seems to me only the U.S. Are the ones hunting for others in space. Mass extinctions would be possible with an incurable disease like the Black Plague or Ebola if it is not isolated and quarantined.


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## Grampa Don (Jul 30, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> It seems to me only the U.S. Are the ones hunting for others in space.



The Chinese seem to be interested.  Link

Don


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## Camper6 (Jul 30, 2017)

Grampa Don said:


> The Chinese seem to be interested.  Link
> 
> Don



Don.  Radio telescopes don't send probes into space like the U.S. does.  All they do is listen for transmissions from outer space hoping to hear from civilizations trying to contact us.

They have been in existence for a long time in other countries than China. There is no comparison to the U.S. space program.  Of course the spinoff is militarily inclined.  

So far all they have picked up is a rerun of "I Love Lucy".:darth:


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## HiDesertHal (Jul 30, 2017)

We're always saying that if there are other civilizations in the universe, they are surely more technologically and socially advanced than we are, and their planet is clean and pure compared to ours.

Since everyone is guessing anyway, I'll just say that any life form out there is filthy and disgusting, with below-animal intelleigence, living on a garbage-covered planet with a poisonous atmosphere.

HDH


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## Grampa Don (Jul 30, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Don.  Radio telescopes don't send probes into space like the U.S. does.  All they do is listen for transmissions from outer space hoping to hear from civilizations trying to contact us.
> 
> They have been in existence for a long time in other countries than China. There is no comparison to the U.S. space program.  Of course the spinoff is militarily inclined.
> 
> So far all they have picked up is a rerun of "I Love Lucy".:darth:



Sorry, I thought that was what you were referring to when you wrote " hunting for others in space."  I didn't realize you considered probes as part of that hunt.

Don


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## Camper6 (Jul 30, 2017)

I think they even sent out one probe with an engraved plate stating who we were and where we are from.

I saw the engraved plate.  I couldn't figure it out.  There was no text.  Just graphics.  That was a long time ago.


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## Camper6 (Jul 30, 2017)

I think they even sent out one probe with an engraved plate stating who we were and where we are from.

I saw the engraved plate.  I couldn't figure it out.  There was no text.  Just graphics.  That was a long time ago. 

It was on Pioneer 10 in 2012.


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## helenbacque (Jul 30, 2017)

I occasionally wonder if maybe earth is like one of those Ant Farms popular when my children were young and there is some powerful deity standing by with a vacuum knowing that the cat will someday send us crashing to the floor.   I can hear the kid saying, "Wonder what they'll do if we do this?"


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## Camper6 (Jul 30, 2017)

helenbacque said:


> I occasionally wonder if maybe earth is like one of those Ant Farms popular when my children were young and there is some powerful deity standing by with a vacuum knowing that the cat will someday send us crashing to the floor.   I can hear the kid saying, "Wonder what they'll do if we do this?"



I think the same way when I step on a bug.


----------



## Grampa Don (Jul 30, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> I think they even sent out one probe with an engraved plate stating who we were and where we are from.
> 
> I saw the engraved plate.  I couldn't figure it out.  There was no text.  Just graphics.  That was a long time ago.



Voyager 1 and 2 were launched to explore the outer reaches of the Solar system and interstellar space. A gold plated record was added on the off chance that some intelligent being would discover them.  Even if there are intelligent beings out there, I'd say the odds are pretty poor of that happening.  They are still sending back data.  Wikipedia has a good write up on them.

Pioneer 10 and 11 were sent on a similar mission and carried a plaque for the same purpose.  Here is a chart showing where they were in 2007.

Don


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## drifter (Jul 30, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> So you won't be happy to converse with a one-eyed mushroom?


Not even a three eyed.


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## Ken N Tx (Jul 31, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> So far all they have picked up is a rerun of "I Love Lucy".:darth:


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 31, 2017)

Ken N Tx said:


> View attachment 40042



Yep.  I'm going to send you to the moon Alice.   The Honeymooners.


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## HiDesertHal (Jul 31, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Yep.  I'm going to send you to the moon Alice.   The Honeymooners.



"One of these days, Alice..."


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