# Health Topics and a Forum



## imp (Jun 23, 2015)

Given that oldsters have health uppermost in mind, who can blame them, I wonder if my occasional contribution along those lines might prove helpful. I wanted to become a Doctor, financial stresses precluded that, but I still nonetheless vigorously studied the fields of Chemistry and Mechanics. As a result, I believe I can understand and elaborate upon, some of the complex medical products used today. 

I studied, and understand well enough, the chemical processes which today produce medications demanding astoundingly high prices, knowing that their actual production cost is, comparatively, zero.    imp


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## SifuPhil (Jun 24, 2015)

imp said:


> I studied, and understand well enough, the chemical processes which today produce medications demanding astoundingly high prices, knowing that their actual production cost is, comparatively, zero.    imp



... and their efficiency questionable and their side-effects voluminous ...


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## imp (Jun 24, 2015)

I have become aware of evidence that a substantial proportion of pharmaceuticals are manufactured abroad for the major-name Drug Companies, then marketed and sold by them for enormous profit. This is especially the case for synthetics produced under generic or chemical name. It would not surprise me to learn that a common-name drug, say ******, for example, is produced generically, purchased by the "maker", so-called, and sold re-packaged as the brand name. 


Monkey-business abounds when big bucks are involved.   imp


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## Lon (Jun 24, 2015)

imp said:


> Given that oldsters have health uppermost in mind, who can blame them, I wonder if my occasional contribution along those lines might prove helpful. I wanted to become a Doctor, financial stresses precluded that, but I still nonetheless vigorously studied the fields of Chemistry and Mechanics. As a result, I believe I can understand and elaborate upon, some of the complex medical products used today.
> 
> I studied, and understand well enough, the chemical processes which today produce medications demanding astoundingly high prices, knowing that their actual production cost is, comparatively, zero.    imp



My own educational back round is extensive in Chemistry, Bacteriology, Microbiology, Physiology and I disagree with the premise of your post.


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## imp (Jun 24, 2015)

You see that premise as exactly what? That drug prices are inordinately high?    imp


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## Kadee (Jun 25, 2015)

Lon said:


> My own educational back round is extensive in Chemistry, Bacteriology, Microbiology, Physiology and I disagree with the premise of your post.


Lon...you might, be able to answer a question for me that the doctors just shrug their shoulders at me when .... I have mentioned it for the last 6 months.... It's all related to my BP .. Yesterday I took my medication for BP  straight after measuring it which was at the time .118/67 ... Pulse 65.. 4 hours latter my BP was 168/ 88 and I was only sitting in my recliner playing with my iPad ..The same thing happens daily ...BP was 200 a few days ago 
I wonder if the tablets I'm on Atacand 32 are upsetting my system rather than lowering my BP it seems strange to me why it goes up after I take the Meds instead of keeping it stable ...The doctors won't change my Meds they seem to think they are working ?.I have an doctors appointment again tomorrow ..My pet hate I life is sitting in a doctors surgery,


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## Lon (Jun 25, 2015)

imp said:


> You see that premise as exactly what? That drug prices are inordinately high?    imp



Yes some drug prices are high but not all and what bothered me about your post was your jumping on the BAND WAGON
of Big Pharma Critics and parroting what has been in the press recently and using your vast Chemistry knowledge to authenticate your post. No offense intended imp because you are certainly entitled to your opinion as am I.


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## Lon (Jun 25, 2015)

Kadee46 said:


> Lon...you might, be able to answer a question for me that the doctors just shrug their shoulders at me when .... I have mentioned it for the last 6 months.... It's all related to my BP .. Yesterday I took my medication for BP  straight after measuring it which was at the time .118/67 ... Pulse 65.. 4 hours latter my BP was 168/ 88 and I was only sitting in my recliner playing with my iPad ..The same thing happens daily ...BP was 200 a few days ago
> I wonder if the tablets I'm on Atacand 32 are upsetting my system rather than lowering my BP it seems strange to me why it goes up after I take the Meds instead of keeping it stable ...The doctors won't change my Meds they seem to think they are working ?.I have an doctors appointment again tomorrow ..My pet hate I life is sitting in a doctors surgery,




I am no doctor and will not presume to know what causes your erratic BP readings other than to say that BP readings for every one will vary in the course of a typical day from hour to hour. I am one that has what is called White Coat Syndrome meaning my initial reading when first in the doctors office will typically read 140/70 and 10 minutes later 110/65, Get your self a inexpensive BP Kit and start taking your own readings, it's easy to do.


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## imp (Jun 25, 2015)

Lon, I understand, and admit perhaps I am too negative in many ways. However, I'll give an example or two. 

Living in Phoenix, my wife & I travelled down to Mexico to purchase prescription meds. I was on Clonidine for B.P. The exact same, factory-sealed and labeled containers, put up by a pharmaceutical company in New Jersey, that my druggist in Phoenix obtained, were priced at 3 cents per tablet in Mexico, 60 cents in Phoenix. Name-brand Catapres was  even higher.

My nephew recently confided that his doctor had given him a prescription for Cialis. The pharmacy priced it at $45 PER DOSE! Who is kidding who, on that one? Current street price for generic is under a buck!

Now, I don't know much about illicit drugs, but generally, aren't "black market" prices as a rule MUCH higher than store-bought?     imp


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## Debby (Jun 25, 2015)

I watched a little piece on TV about a drug called Soloris and the cost of it.  The patient featured was a 12 year old boy who has some disease and literally needs it to stay alive.  Costs $60.00 to produce a little vial of it and the company sells it for $6700.00 per vial.  Right now because of his age, medical is covering it but when that runs out, from the sounds of it, this little otherwise healthy boy will die because his parents can't afford the $700,000.00 per year that it would take to keep him alive.  How would you feel about watching your child growing up if you knew that was coming?

And apparently the company does 'secret' deals with each country on how much they're going to charge them for it and if the government blabs, then the deal is null and void and it will cost more on the new deal.  My husband called it what it is, extortion.  Peoples lives held hostage for suitcases of money.  And the other thing they mentioned is that 90% of the research on this drug and many, many others is actually done by Universities and funded by taxpayers.  Then when they get it to almost production level, the pharma companies come in and finish off the research and go into production!


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## Lon (Jun 25, 2015)

Debby said:


> I watched a little piece on TV about a drug called Soloris and the cost of it.  The patient featured was a 12 year old boy who has some disease and literally needs it to stay alive.  Costs $60.00 to produce a little vial of it and the company sells it for $6700.00 per vial.  Right now because of his age, medical is covering it but when that runs out, from the sounds of it, this little otherwise healthy boy will die because his parents can't afford the $700,000.00 per year that it would take to keep him alive.  How would you feel about watching your child growing up if you knew that was coming?
> 
> And apparently the company does 'secret' deals with each country on how much they're going to charge them for it and if the government blabs, then the deal is null and void and it will cost more on the new deal.  My husband called it what it is, extortion.  Peoples lives held hostage for suitcases of money.  And the other thing they mentioned is that 90% of the research on this drug and many, many others is actually done by Universities and funded by taxpayers.  Then when they get it to almost production level, the pharma companies come in and finish off the research and go into production!



Even though I am not a New Zealand citizen I was always able to buy my prescriptions when living there for way less cost than in the U.S. The Pharmacist told me that the NZ Government negotiates the price of drugs with drug companies,


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## imp (Jun 25, 2015)

Lon said:


> Even though I am not a New Zealand citizen I was always able to buy my prescriptions when living there for way less cost than in the U.S. The Pharmacist told me that the NZ Government negotiates the price of drugs with drug companies,



What does that have to do with the dying little boy?    imp


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## imp (Jul 20, 2015)

*"This $153,000 rattlesnake bite is everything wrong with American health care"

*Earlier this month a guy named Todd Fassler was bitten by a rattlesnake in San Diego, KGTV San Diego reports. In itself this isn't terribly unusual—the CDC estimates that roughly 7,000 to 8,000 people a year get bit by a venomous snake in the U.S. And somewhere between five and six people die from these bites each year.
What raised eyebrows, though, was Fassler's hospital bill—all $153,000 of it. 

The bulk of his hospital bill—$83,000 of it— is due to pharmacy charges. Specifically, charges for the antivenin used to treat the bite. KGTV reports that Fassler depleted the antivenin supplies at two local hospitals during his five-day visit. Nobody expects antivenin to be cheap. But $83,000?

There's currently only one commercially-available antivenin for treating venomous snakebites in the U.S. -- CroFab, manufactured by U.K.-based BTG plc. And with a stable market of 7,000 to 8,000 snakebite victims per year and no competitors, business is pretty good. BTG's latest annual report shows CroFab sales topped out at close to $63 million British pounds, or $98 million dollars last fiscal year.

BTG has fought aggressively to keep competitors off the market. A competing product, Anavip, just received FDA approval this year and likely won't be on the market until late 2018. This lack of competition is one reason why snakebite treatments rack up such huge hospital bills -- $55,000. $89,000. $143,000. In May of this year, a snakebit Missouri man died after refusing to seek medical care, saying he couldn't afford the bill.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-everything-wrong-with-american-health-care/


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## John C (Jul 20, 2015)

I recently heard of a prescription drug for nail fungus that costs $1,000 + for a very small amount  if you have a COUPON.  Of course, Medicare will not touch it and I'm wondering who would pay that much since there are other remedies available.


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## Mrs. Robinson (Jul 20, 2015)

I saw that rattlesnake bite bill on FB today. Yikes. Even more reason to watch out for them.

My precious niece is currently dying of a cancer that would have killed her 7 years ago if it were not for a drug that held it at bay. (And when I say she is dying,it is imminent. On Thursday she was given 2-3 days.) However,the drug is so outrageously priced ($14,000+ per month) that after being on it for a couple of years,their savings were depleted and she had to stop taking it for a year. But her tumors returned,so a GoFundMe page was set up for her by her church and enough money was raised to pay her copay ($8,500) so she could continue it. But it did not work this time-I truly feel it is because she was off it for that year. And now none of the meds are working,so we are losing her. The cost of life saving drugs in this country is just outrageous.


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## imp (Jul 20, 2015)

Mrs. Robinson said:


> I saw that rattlesnake bite bill on FB today. Yikes. Even more reason to watch out for them.
> 
> My precious niece is currently dying of a cancer that would have killed her 7 years ago if it were not for a drug that held it at bay. (And when I say she is dying,it is imminent. On Thursday she was given 2-3 days.) However,the drug is so outrageously priced ($14,000+ per month) that after being on it for a couple of years,their savings were depleted and she had to stop taking it for a year. But her tumors returned,so a GoFundMe page was set up for her by her church and enough money was raised to pay her copay ($8,500) so she could continue it. But it did not work this time-I truly feel it is because she was off it for that year. *And now none of the meds are working,so we are losing her. The cost of life saving drugs in this country is just outrageous*.



A story not to be taken lightly. We speak about human life here, while the makers and suppliers of "antineoplastic drugs", as they call them, speak mainly about their bottom lines. It is not only a national-level disgrace, but also a morally defunct issue. The drugs are often called "palliative", meaning relieving symptoms temporarily, but not effecting a cure.

So $14,000 per month "buys" some additional time on this earth. Pitiful system this is.   imp


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 20, 2015)

Back in the '90s, my dog was bitten by a rattlesnake in our yard, and I had to rush him to the emergency vet.  They gave him some kind of anti-venom, IVs, etc. and kept him overnight.  Next day he was fine and that cost us around $300 for the whole thing.  A lot of money for us at the time, but we were thankful he was okay.


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## imp (Jul 20, 2015)

Cost escalation: 20 years later, fifteen hundred times the cost!    imp


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## oldman (Jul 21, 2015)

Oh, Mrs. R., I am so sorry to hear about your niece.


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## QuickSilver (Jul 21, 2015)

imp said:


> Given that oldsters have health uppermost in mind, who can blame them, I wonder if my occasional contribution along those lines might prove helpful. I wanted to become a Doctor, financial stresses precluded that, but I still nonetheless vigorously studied the fields of Chemistry and Mechanics. As a result, I believe I can understand and elaborate upon, some of the complex medical products used today.
> 
> I studied, and understand well enough, the chemical processes which today produce medications demanding astoundingly high prices, knowing that their actual production cost is, comparatively, zero.    imp



I look forward to reading some of your interpretations...


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## imp (Jul 21, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I look forward to reading some of your interpretations...



Well, I cannot know if you mean that facetiously, or actually wish to know how Organic Chemistry principles are used to create a myriad of new synthetic chemicals destined to become "medicines". What I did mean, is that the great bulk of costs incurred in placing, say, a new chemo drug on the market, are not related to the actual making of the material, but rather an enormous amount of Research and Development (very costly), and the "red tape" involved in the process of FDA acceptance.   imp


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