# Should tit for tat be the answer to ISIS for executions?



## Ralphy1 (Feb 4, 2015)

Jordan has executed two extremist prisoners for the brutal slaying of their captured pilot.  Methinks that descending into barbarity in retaliation is not the way to go, though I can understand the impulse to do so.  With me you should all agree...


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## JustQuinn (Feb 4, 2015)

what is the way to go  Ralphy?


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## JustQuinn (Feb 4, 2015)

BTW  I hope you are not too  cold  over there  in snow land....wheras  I, of  course  am  luxuriating  in balmy  temps  in the low  80Fs


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## Ralphy1 (Feb 4, 2015)

The way to go will probably be many D-Day type efforts at some point in time.  As for your gloating over my suffering under a few feet of snow, Lisa has not retired yet, need I say more?


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## JustQuinn (Feb 4, 2015)

I  think  D  day type  assaults  have had their  day  Ralphy.  Perhaps  your  brain is  frozen?     (we are  off to the  beach  for a  few  days....I  will salute  you in champagne  as I  sit on the  deck  overlooking  the  ocean)   Give my best to Lisa and tell her  I  look  forward  to  seeing  her one  day.....in the  vicinity  of a  famous  tree  I  once  told  you  all  about.


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## Ralphy1 (Feb 4, 2015)

OK, maybe just a tactical nuke might do it.  Meanwhile, while you are sipping some bubbly, just keep an eye to the sea as Lisa has been taking snorkeling lessons...


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## QuickSilver (Feb 4, 2015)

I am so on the fence about this one...  ON one hand.. what Jordan did was sinking to the level of those barbarians... on the other hand I say YES... way to go!!


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## Warrigal (Feb 4, 2015)

The woman that the Jordanians executed had already been convicted of a failed suicide bombing attempt.
In their terms the execution was justice, not revenge. They didn't burn her alive.


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## Ralphy1 (Feb 4, 2015)

But they immediately strung her up in retaliation for their pilot...


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## QuickSilver (Feb 4, 2015)

I'm curious to see what Japan is going to do.  I understand that for the very first time since WWII Japan is making aggressive statements and promising revenge.  Anyone who has known a WWII Vet will tell you that the Japanese are honor bound and fearless vicious fighters..  This could be very interesting.


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## Warrigal (Feb 4, 2015)

True, but they were only holding off in the hope of a prisoner exchange. No exchange, no release, no reprieve.

We have two Australians about to be executed in Bali for heroin smuggling twelve years ago.
Although we don't have a death penalty anymore, the Indonesians do. 
Out of nine people involved in the enterprise, they only imposed the death penalty on the two ringleaders.
All legal avenues and appeals for clemency have now been exhausted and they will face a firing squad very soon.
By now they must be prepared for their fate. 
Each has undergone some sort of moral/spiritual transformation in the prison but time is now up.

The Jordanian woman has been waiting four years for her sentence to be carried out.
Now it has been. Four years ago she was ready to die and take a lot of others with her.
Her hanging was not unjust IMO.


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## Debby (Feb 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I'm curious to see what Japan is going to do.  I understand that for the very first time since WWII Japan is making aggressive statements and promising revenge.  Anyone who has known a WWII Vet will tell you that the Japanese are honor bound and fearless vicious fighters..  This could be very interesting.



'...Abe, whom the extremists blamed for supporting their enemies with nonlethal aid, said Japan would continue to expand such efforts as food and medical assistance, to countries in the Middle East....'http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/02/01/national/islamic-state-group-purportedly-releases-goto-execution-video/#.VNIlxVpRpcw  

Well, I guess there's your answer.  This was in the Japanese Times on February 1st.  Keep in mind that after WW2, the Japanese government wrote Article 9 of their Constititution that prohibits any type of overseas conflict.  I believe it did leave room for 'support' as in food and medical assistance which is demonstrated in the above link.

Aint' Google grand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_9_of_the_Japanese_Constitution


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 4, 2015)

They didn't burn them alive or saw their head off...I think they did the appropriate thing here.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 4, 2015)

http://groundreport.com/isis-has-no-idea-what-it-has-done-in-murdering-haruna-yukawa/



> Japanese officials, particularly in the military are reacting to the slaughter of one of its citizens  Haruna Yukawa outwardly in a manner of quite reserve, but inwardly they are raging inside!
> 
> In Japan’s feudal past, the Samurai class upheld the honor of their family, clan, nation or lord through the practice of revenge killings (敵討ち _katakiuchi_).
> These killings could also involve the relatives of an offender. Today, _katakiuchi_ is most often pursued by peaceful means, but revenge remains an important part of Japanese culture.
> ...




Anyone who believes that Japan will do nothing but provide aid is naïve.   It may not be an open conflict, but I think that thousands of years of culture is not going to let this incident go avenged.


yes debby..... Google works for everyone...


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## SifuPhil (Feb 4, 2015)

I have spent the better part of my life attempting to convince people that there are certain situations in which you not only sink to the level of your opponent, but _below_ it. 

Words on paper only go so far; speeches are pretty but they don't always get the job done. Only speaking the language that your opponent understands - in this case, violence - will work. It might take a while and might require a lot of pre-emptive strikes, but eventually it will get the job done.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 4, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I have spent the better part of my life attempting to convince people that there are certain situations in which you not only sink to the level of your opponent, but _below_ it.
> 
> Words on paper only go so far; speeches are pretty but they don't always get the job done. Only speaking the language that your opponent understands - in this case, violence - will work. It might take a while and might require a lot of pre-emptive strikes, but eventually it will get the job done.



I am beginning to agree...  I think that as this has unfolded, the majority of the Arab world is appalled  by ISIS..  The Killing of the Jordanian pilot may be the final straw for many in the region.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I am beginning to agree...  I think that as this has unfolded, the majority of the Arab world is appalled  by ISIS..  The Killing of the Jordanian pilot may be the final straw for many in the region.



And that's exactly what it often takes - a personal experience - to change one's mind about it. 

I just hope the U.S. doesn't pull their "We're here to save the day!" schtick ...


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## Falcon (Feb 4, 2015)

Let's sink to their level and even deeper, if that is what it may take: For every person you torture to death, we're gonna do the same
to *10* of your ilk.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 4, 2015)

"_They send one of ours to the hospital, we send one of theirs to the morgue_".


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## QuickSilver (Feb 4, 2015)

Yet I think that proceeding with caution is prudent.  The Middle East is complicated beyond belief.  Tribal history, feuds, alliances and customs drive them.  While I believe the killing of the Jordanian pilot has awoken many in that area to the danger and savagery for ISIS, I still worry about how our actions will affect the situation. As much as ISIS is feared and hated... they are still part of the region.  We are and always will be the Infidel.


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## WhatInThe (Feb 4, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> The woman that the Jordanians executed had already been convicted of a failed suicide bombing attempt.
> In their terms the execution was justice, not revenge. They didn't burn her alive.



In the US where one of the premises of the criminal justice system is a quick and speedy trial completing the process with an execution basically fits.

But what really comes to mind when I see these ISIS atrocities is the picture from the Vietnam War where a South Vietnamese Officer executes a Viet Cong prisoner on the spot. This is what I would do to an ISIS perpetrator if guilt was proven. And I would do it in front of other ISIS prisoners.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...380524F2CB5122F89601044989C45&selectedIndex=0

The actual story behind the photograph, photographer and officer here.

http://failuremag.com/feature/article/saigon_execution/

Taken in context the Viet Cong prisoner was known to killed and/or behead people himself. The photographer who knew the story spoke on the officer's behalf at a immigration/deportation hearing.


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## Falcon (Feb 4, 2015)

I read about an incident that happened one time. (Can't remember the exact details but it went something like this
A group had some problems with muslims; So, the group leader lined up about (say) 20 of the muslims facing a firing squad.
Then he had his men bring out a pig, slaughter the pig and slapped its blood on them. Also dipped the squads bullets in the blood
and shot (killed) all but one of them. He left one alive to relate to his buddies what had taken place.

*They never had any more trouble with the muslims !*


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## hollydolly (Feb 4, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> "_They send one of ours to the hospital, we send one of theirs to the morgue_".



The problem is ours never get to a hospital after suffering at the hands of these barbarians, so when they burn them alive , throw them off the top of buildings, chop their heads off, how can we possibly go lower? 

I am all for retaliatory action, but how.. except a swift  and deadly drone strike on the lot of them!!


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## darroll (Feb 4, 2015)

The world is going to agree to send troops in to the middle east.
You can't root these people out by bombing from 35000 feet.


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## Don M. (Feb 4, 2015)

If these lunatics want to burn people alive, perhaps we should bring back Napalm and begin arming our aircraft with it, and give them a dose of their own medicine.  They are clearly demonstrating their total disdain for civilized society with their beheadings, and now this burning alive...there seems to be no way to reduce their warped carnage...therefore, the goal of every nation should be to annihilate them in the quickest means possible.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 4, 2015)

Don M. said:


> If these lunatics want to burn people alive, perhaps we should bring back Napalm and begin arming our aircraft with it, and give them a dose of their own medicine.  They are clearly demonstrating their total disdain for civilized society with their beheadings, and now this burning alive...there seems to be no way to reduce their warped carnage...therefore, the goal of every nation should be to annihilate them in the quickest means possible.




Have you seen the video?    I stumbled upon it accidentally.... I don't know why I clicked the arrow.....  I feel very woozy at the moment.  I am seriously dizzy


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## Don M. (Feb 4, 2015)

NO, I haven't seen the video, nor do I really want to.  The people who commit these kinds of acts are on the same level with those who used to burn "witches at the stake"....they deserve no sympathy.  The Only similarity between these Muslim fanatics and a human being is that both walk upright.


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## hollydolly (Feb 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Have you seen the video?    I stumbled upon it accidentally.... I don't know why I clicked the arrow.....  I feel very woozy at the moment.  I am seriously dizzy



I saw the video yesterday..I nearly fainted..


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## oakapple (Feb 4, 2015)

I keep well away from all those videos, as I have enough trouble already with sleeping at night.The Jordanians really had to go ahead with her execution, there would have been mass demos and disorder otherwise.There is no answer really, except to arm those prepared to go against IS. The military from all Western countries need to keep boots OFF the ground, as this is exactly what IS wants, to kill and best of all, capture US and European soldiers.


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## Falcon (Feb 4, 2015)

Don,  I like that Napalm idea. Should get rid of a lot of them. What they do for their amusement  is sickening. So they should be wiped out en masse
just like getting rid of rats' nests.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 4, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> I am all for retaliatory action, but how.. except a swift  and deadly drone strike on the lot of them!!



I agree.  Someone mentioned that we should greatly increase the airstrikes, and I think that's a good idea.


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## GeneMO (Feb 4, 2015)

The military has fuel/air bombs.  About the closest thing to a tactical nuke you can get.   I say find their strongholds, drop a BLU-82, or whatever they call em now and flatten about a 4 mile circle over town.   Little mini Hiroshimas.

I would do B-52 Arc Lights, I would rain Hell down on em and send so many to Allah that he would have to open up receiving lines that would look like a Walmart on Christmas eve.

Kill em all and let Allah sort em out.

Gene


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## GeneMO (Feb 4, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> The problem is ours never get to a hospital after suffering at the hands of these barbarians, so when they burn them alive , throw them off the top of buildings, chop their heads off, how can we possibly go lower?
> 
> I am all for retaliatory action, but how.. except a swift  and deadly drone strike on the lot of them!!



Some of our Panzy liberals forced our military to stop the use and production of Napalm a few years back.  I say bring back the Sandys with a full load of Nape and show those scum what burning feels like.

Gene


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## GeneMO (Feb 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I'm curious to see what Japan is going to do.  I understand that for the very first time since WWII Japan is making aggressive statements and promising revenge.  Anyone who has known a WWII Vet will tell you that the Japanese are honor bound and fearless vicious fighters..  This could be very interesting.



My father in law fought the Japanese.   He hates them to this day.

Gene


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## chic (Feb 5, 2015)

I think if the U.S., England, France, Germany, Japan, Australia, Canada, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates join forces against with air strikes and land forces ISIS will be destroyed. 

Now that they have burned a man alive, they have proved they cannot be dealt with like normal adversaries in war. No negotiations. This is beyond barbaric. It's like something I've read about that used to happen during the Dark Ages.

These people only understand and respect force. I say we give it to them!


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## QuickSilver (Feb 5, 2015)

The problem people is that you can kill bodies with weapons... you cannot kill an ideology.    Think about it.


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## Debby (Feb 5, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> http://groundreport.com/isis-has-no-idea-what-it-has-done-in-murdering-haruna-yukawa/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But what you are suggesting is going against their own Constitution.  How hard would it be for you guys to have Constitutional change?  I'm not naive at all, merely hopeful for the Japanese people and for the rest of us for that matter.

This all started many years ago when the West hitched their wagon to the 'star of oil'.  I think one thing governments should be doing is pushing research into viable alternatives to fossil fuels so that we could cut these buggers loose.  End or at least severely curtail our need of a product that comes from that region in large part and leave them to fight it out among themselves.  Whoever is still standing at the end could possibly be a source of a new realization that 'getting along' is a far better way to go.  But I'm not naive enough to think that our governments will do that because their focus is too often, the next election cycle.  Power is such a major corrupter in a democracy.


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## Debby (Feb 5, 2015)

GeneMO said:


> My father in law fought the Japanese.   He hates them to this day.
> 
> Gene




So then if the Japanese(Iraqi's, Afghani's, Cambodians.....) were to hate 'your father', perhaps you can understand.

You want change?  You have to 'own' your own behaviour.  We have to 'own' our own as well.


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## Jackie22 (Feb 5, 2015)

chic said:


> I think if the U.S., England, France, Germany, Japan, Australia, Canada, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates join forces against with air strikes and land forces ISIS will be destroyed.
> 
> Now that they have burned a man alive, they have proved they cannot be dealt with like normal adversaries in war. No negotiations. This is beyond barbaric. It's like something I've read about that used to happen during the Dark Ages.
> 
> These people only understand and respect force. I say we give it to them!



I agree, chic, countries ban together and eradicate.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 5, 2015)

Debby said:


> This all started many years ago when the West hitched their wagon to the 'star of oil'.  I think one thing governments should be doing is pushing research into viable alternatives to fossil fuels so that we could cut these buggers loose.  End or at least severely curtail our need of a product that comes from that region in large part and leave them to fight it out among themselves.  Whoever is still standing at the end could possibly be a source of a new realization that 'getting along' is a far better way to go.  But I'm not naive enough to think that our governments will do that because their focus is too often, the next election cycle.  Power is such a major corrupter in a democracy.



The U.S. imports the greatest amount of its oil (32%) from Canada.

Sure you want to lose that income?


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## QuickSilver (Feb 5, 2015)

AND Venezuela.   We depend very little on the Middle East for oil.  Also, now that we have become a major producer ourselves.. we are even less dependent.


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## AZ Jim (Feb 5, 2015)

There is a difference as far as the woman wannabe bomber and the innocents killed by beheadings, as to the pilot I suppose he was a combatant.  I do think tit for tat in this case is dangerous.


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## Butterfly (Feb 5, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> There is a difference as far as the woman wannabe bomber and the innocents killed by beheadings, as to the pilot I suppose he was a combatant.  I do think tit for tat in this case is dangerous.



There is absolutely NO excuse, NO justification, for burning people alive, no matter their status, no matter what they have done.  This wasn't an execution, it was an act of horrific barbarism.

We certainly shouldn't be doing tit for tat as in burning people alive, but I don't see how or why the world should tolerate this behavior.  They need to be stopped.  Just letting them continue to BE is dangerous.


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