# My guy proposed ... now what do I do?



## Ronni (Aug 24, 2018)

Married for 30+ years to an abusive man, finally found the courage to leave back in 2004.  He was emotionally, mentally, verbally, financially and sexually abusive, finally becoming physically abusive when I told him I was leaving him. I was in counseling for a few years after I left because I was a mess, I hated men, felt all except my sons and my brother were scum of the earth, so badly scarred that I wouldn't have a male doctor, dentist, hairdresser etc., and even made sure to get in the grocery line where there was a female attendant.  It was really bad.  But time and counseling and a LOT of work on myself allowed those open emotional wounds to close.  I still have the scars (baggage, triggers, occasional PTSD) but I've been dating for the last few years, at first just lightly, socially, a kiss at the door and that was it.  Have been involved in two committed relationships before this last one, both ended amicably.  

Met my current guy, Ron, a bit over a year ago.  He was...different, or at least I felt differently about him, not at first, but over time I came to miss him when I wasn't with him, which wasn't that way with the other two men.  I mean, I enjoyed their company and the time we spent together, (go over Saturday, come home Sunday) but looked forward to getting back home.  

We've both been married twice before, and though we had "the talk" about being exclusive, not seeing anyone else, etc., there hadn't been any talk of marriage, other than generally in terms of being wary of going there again.  

So imagine my surprise when last weekend over a glass of wine as we were discussing and marveling at how compatible we are in all respects, he takes my hand and says "I don't have a ring yet, and I wasn't going to do this until I did, but will you marry me?"  

I know my eyes got very wide and my jaw dropped and I was seriously at a complete loss for words.  You don't know me well yet, but I'm here to tell you I am a motor mouth and NEVER at a loss for words!!!  And then inexplicably my eyes filled with tears.  I still don't know why.  He said "Well you didn't say no immediately so I'm hopeful.  Just think about it OK?"  

And that's all I've been doing all week is thinking about this.  There are financial and practical logistics which I'm perfectly capable of sorting out.  It's not any of that.  It's the emotional component.  I love this man.  I have zero interest in anyone else.  I am committed to him and the relationship, in a "this is it for me from here on out I'm very happy" kind of way.  We've gone on several vacations together, a few days here, a week there, this last one was 10 days, and we have been completely comfortable in each other's company, I've not felt like I was eager to get away from him, or that the enforced closeness had becoming grating or uncomfortable.  

I'm just....scared I guess? Happy, but....wary.  Unsure.   I haven't been actively trying to find someone to marry, unlike a number of my single friends both male and female.  I have been happy being single, I am happy being with Ron.  But marriage?  What if my interest cools?  What if his does?  What if we start to get on each other's nerves (though there is zero indication that that is going to happen, but you know...) I'm not even sure what I'm nervous about.  

Advice, wisdom, things to think about, speculations about why I'm wary or unsure or nervous...I'd appreciate any input.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 24, 2018)

Ronni said:


> Married for 30+ years to an abusive man, finally found the courage to leave back in 2004.  He was emotionally, mentally, verbally, financially and sexually abusive, finally becoming physically abusive when I told him I was leaving him. I was in counseling for a few years after I left because I was a mess, I hated men, felt all except my sons and my brother were scum of the earth, so badly scarred that I wouldn't have a male doctor, dentist, hairdresser etc., and even made sure to get in the grocery line where there was a female attendant.  It was really bad.  But time and counseling and a LOT of work on myself allowed those open emotional wounds to close.  I still have the scars (baggage, triggers, occasional PTSD)  .



You’ve paid yer dues…earned some happy times in this life
Marry him
Yer a senior
What are you waiting for?


----------



## IKE (Aug 24, 2018)

Ronni said:


> I'm just....scared I guess?  Wary.  Unsure.   I haven't been actively trying to find someone to marry, unlike a number of my single friends both male and female.  I have been happy being single, I am happy being with Ron.  But marriage?  What if my interest cools?  What if his does?  What if we start to get on each other's nerves ? (though there is zero indication that that is going to happen, but you know...) I'm not even sure what I'm nervous about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ClassicRockr (Aug 24, 2018)

I was single for 21 years, before meeting my wife. Actually, I was, to the same woman, marriage Annulled and second marriage a divorce. I REALLY missed wearing a wedding band, but my ex-wife was so, so much different than myself. IOW, it was much, much more of a "physical attraction" to each other than anything else. 

After that 21 years of looking, but never finding, I met my wife thru a Personal Ad I had placed in a local magazine and she answered. I knew from our first meeting for dinner, that I wanted to marry this lady. She'd been married twice before as well and, lucky for me, she was "marriage minded" just like me.

I completely say "go for it". He sounds terrific, just like what my wife and I thought of each other. Please don't be too scared to take this step, to the right person, marriage can be absolutely GREAT and BEAUTIFUL......just ask wife and I after 17 years of marriage. We've had our little "ups and downs", but many, many more "ups" than downs. Marriages aren't perfect, but a simple "I'm sorry, I do love you" continued with "we can talk about this" and a great hug/kiss afterwards definitely works (for us anyway).


----------



## Ronni (Aug 24, 2018)

IKE said:


> If you're absolutely 100% positive that he's the one that you'd like to spend the rest of your life with, go for it......since you apparently have a few doubts (see above ?'s) and are not yet 100% positive then I'd date awhile longer and see how things go.
> 
> It's your call but I certainly wouldn't rush into anything if you have any doubts.



We talked about it a little bit after he dropped this bombshell.  He wasn't pushy at ALL...it's just not his style.  But he did suggest a long engagement as a way to ease into this, give us more time .. well me actually, he said he doesn't need it, he's sure ... give me more time to adjust to the idea or work my through it to a point of knowing 100% that I do or I don't.  

I don't want to lead him on.  I don't want to take up his time to then decide that no, marriage again isn't for me, though if I  had been looking for a marriage partner I couldn't find anyone better, more compatible, kinder, sweeter, more loving or giving.  The doubts I have aren't about him at all, they're about me and being fickle or blowing hot then cold.

My previous two relationships were ended by me.  I thought a lot of both men, and had considered both relationships as long term commitments and wasn't interested in looking elsewhere, but my feelings for them just cooled over time.  It was hurtful for both of them when I ended things, though as I said it was ultimately an amicable split and I'm still friendly with both men one of whom has gone on to another long term relationship.  She's a lovely woman and I'm very happy for him.  

What if my feelings for Ron cool?  I mean, what if we're married and I cool off towards him?  I don't know that they will, I certainly can't get an INKLING of feeling anything other than the way I do right now.  But at one point with the other two relationships I would have told you the same thing.  Am I just fickle?  Inconsistent?  Shallow?  Hmmm....I appreciate y'all listening...clearly I'm working my way through this.


----------



## terry123 (Aug 24, 2018)

Go for it!!  Have a long engagement if that will help you feel better. I envy you a great deal.  Would love to be in your situation.


----------



## Lara (Aug 24, 2018)

I saw that picture of the two of you having fun (over in the "Hair" thread) and I thought you were already married. You just seem like a great fit. I want to say, "marry him" but there's one thing... 

I wouldn't overthink all the what if's in the future BUT I also wouldn't rule out one practical issue. I know someone who is contemplating marriage to someone who has a lot of debt. She has no debt. 

They have been madly in love for years but she's afraid she may be implicated in his debt (upon death) if she signs a legal marriage license...laws regarding that are probably different in each state. She doesn't have her name on any of his stuff but it's a red flag none-the-less for her. I think she just want's to stay engaged forever :love_heart:


----------



## dkay (Aug 24, 2018)

Wishing all the best for you. I understand about all the baggage etc. especially if you've been in an abusive relationship before. There is nothing wrong with a long engagement. Use the time to work on unloading the baggage, him too if he has any. I think it's so unfair to have the "sins" of former relationships visited upon a new relationship. Also, if there are any deal breakers for you, don't overlook those (such as excessive gambling, porn, alcohol/drug abuse, child/spousal abuse etc...things that you know you won't tolerate). Accept him as he is, not who you wish he would be. 

I'll not say I'll never get married again but for me the prospects aren't looking too good. So if you think you have a chance at happiness, take it. None of us have any guarantees that we will even be here tomorrow.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 24, 2018)

Ronni, I think it's great that he proposed marriage, he seems like a good guy and you two make a wonderful couple.  It's good that you're both open and comfortable in talking to each other about things, you've already let him know your uncertainty about marriage and how your feelings may change about him in the future.  Wise to get it all out front and in the open.

I would have a long engagement like he and others suggested if I were you, or better yet, live together so you're with each other every day and night as if you were legally married.  We lived together for a couple of years before we had our wedding, and we've been happily married over forty years now.

Just from what you shared, everything 'feels' good to me, try to bury those old relationships, I think you're giving them too much power in your life.  The past is gone, lessons learned.  The present is precious for us, especially at our ages.  The future can be warm and wonderful for you, don't be afraid to give it a chance.  Wishing a bright future for the both of you and lots of happiness together. :love_heart:


----------



## CindyLouWho (Aug 24, 2018)

SeaBreeze said:


> Ronni, I think it's great that he proposed marriage, he seems like a good guy and you two make a wonderful couple.  It's good that you're both open and comfortable in talking to each other about things, you've already let him know your uncertainty about marriage and how your feelings may change about him in the future.  Wise to get it all out front and in the open.
> 
> I would have a long engagement like he and others suggested if I were you, or better yet, live together so you're with each other every day and night as if you were legally married.  We lived together for a couple of years before we had our wedding, and we've been happily married over forty years now.
> 
> Just from what you shared, everything 'feels' good to me, try to bury those old relationships, I think you're giving them too much power in your life.  The past is gone, lessons learned.  The present is precious for us, especially at our ages.  The future can be warm and wonderful for you, don't be afraid to give it a chance.  Wishing a bright future for the both of you and lots of happiness together. :love_heart:



So well said, Seabreeze. 
I agree with a little longer engagement. If it's meant to be    he will still be there. That way you can get to know him better and when and if you feel it's 100% right, then maybe get married at that point. Listen to your instincts.


----------



## Wren (Aug 24, 2018)

Personally I wouldn’t, not without living together a good while first, good luck and I wish you happiness whatever you decide


----------



## RadishRose (Aug 24, 2018)

I agree with Wren. I also wish you the best!


----------



## C'est Moi (Aug 24, 2018)

Wren said:


> Personally I wouldn’t, not without living together a good while first, good luck and I wish you happiness whatever you decide





RadishRose said:


> I agree with Wren. I also wish you the best!



Ditto.   I always said if anything were to happen to my hubby (God forbid), I'd remain single.   Don't want to train another one!    But it's a personal thing so just take your time and enjoy the relationship no matter where it goes.


----------



## Knight (Aug 24, 2018)

If Ron died tomorrow would you have regrets?  Are any of these part of what you are experiencing with Ron?

Quote
"He was emotionally, mentally, verbally, financially and sexually abusive, finally becoming physically abusive when I told him I was leaving him."

If not then fear of what might happen is not a good way to live.


----------



## Ronni (Aug 24, 2018)

Knight said:


> If Ron died tomorrow would you have regrets?



Huh...what a great question! Yeah, actually I'd regret not having eked out as much time as I could with him.  




> Are any of these part of what you are experiencing with Ron?
> 
> Quote
> "He was emotionally, mentally, verbally, financially and sexually abusive, finally becoming physically abusive when I told him I was leaving him."



Not in the least!  My ex's abuse started almost immediately, but I was young and naive and clueless, so I didn't see it for what it was for the longest time..part of the reason it took me so long to leave.  I figured the negative stuff was the anomaly, the charming and charismatic man was the norm.  I had it backwards.  He showed me repeatedly and chronically WHO he actually was. I thought I should just be trying harder.  :upset:

I recognize that a year isn't a long time in which to get to know someone, but part of healing from the abuse and degradation was a thorough education in the dynamic of it, the personality type capable of such control and domination, the warning signs, red flags etc. I have become adept in recognizing them.  Ron so far has exhibited none of them.  Not even a pink flag   So I'm not concerned at this point about that kind of behavior.  If I'd seen ANYTHING I'd have long since ended the relationship.  I will not go there again.  




> fear of what might happen is not a good way to live.



I agree completely.  I lived that way for most of my adult life until I left my ex.  It was a wretched, awful and horrible way to live and I won't subject myself to that again.


----------



## gennie (Aug 24, 2018)

Two pieces of advice from personal experience: don't mingle money and - if either of you have children or if your assets and personal finances are not balanced - do a pre-nup.  Then follow your heart.


----------



## Ronni (Aug 24, 2018)

terry123 said:


> Go for it!!  Have a long engagement if that will help you feel better. I envy you a great deal.  Would love to be in your situation.



Thank you for this.  It's humbled me.  

Here I am worrying about all the what ifs, not even thinking how lucky I am to be with a wonderful man who loves me enough that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, who cherishes me, a man my kids really like, the same way I feel about his daughters!   

So...thank you for putting this in perspective.


----------



## ClassicRockr (Aug 24, 2018)

Ronni said:


> Thank you for this.  It's humbled me.
> 
> Here I am worrying about all the what ifs, not even thinking how lucky I am to be with a wonderful man who loves me enough that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, who cherishes me, a man my kids really like, the same way I feel about his daughters!
> 
> So...thank you for putting this in perspective.



Now, go tell him "yes, yes, yes"!! 

And, BTW, I wouldn't even think of splitting the finances up or doing a pre-nup. Millionaires do that stuff. Wife and I share all finances and have never/ever had a problem. No pre-nup either...…..nonsense. We totally trust each other.


----------



## C'est Moi (Aug 24, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Now, go tell him "yes, yes, yes"!!
> 
> And, BTW, I wouldn't even think of splitting the finances up or doing a pre-nup. Millionaires do that stuff. Wife and I share all finances and have never/ever had a problem. No pre-nup either...…..nonsense. We totally trust each other.



Sorry, but at this stage of life the best thing is to hang on to your security.   Don't be blinded by love; things can take a turn you never expect.   Keep control of your money and assets.


----------



## RadishRose (Aug 24, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> Sorry, but at this stage of life the best thing is to hang on to your security.   Don't be blinded by love; things can take a turn you never expect.   Keep control of your money and assets.



It's best to keep a few grand aside, or at least whatever you can. Say nothing except to a very trusted child or other family member. Classic Rocker and his wife are lucky, but a woman our age is better off having a little something for an emergency.


----------



## applecruncher (Aug 24, 2018)

Lara said:


> I saw that picture of the two of you having fun (over in the "Hair" thread) and I thought you were already married. You just seem like a great fit. I want to say, "marry him" but there's one thing...
> 
> I wouldn't overthink all the what if's in the future BUT I also wouldn't rule out one practical issue. I know someone who is contemplating marriage to someone who has a lot of debt. She has no debt.
> 
> They have been madly in love for years but she's afraid she may be implicated in his debt (upon death) if she signs a legal marriage license...laws regarding that are probably different in each state. She doesn't have her name on any of his stuff but it's a red flag none-the-less for her. I think she just want's to stay engaged forever :love_heart:



This...for practical reasons.  You should know each other's financial situation.


----------



## Ronni (Aug 25, 2018)

I agree about the financial stuff.  I have no debt myself, and I sure don't want that burden later in life.  As far as I know, Ron has no debt either, other than his house, which he bought after he and his wife divorced a few years ago.  

I'm a practical sort, and so my mind has already been whirling with many different scenarios regarding our future.  He has two daughters and a couple of grandkids so far, and I've already thought about what if he were to pre-decease me?  What does his will say?  I certainly don't want to suddenly be homeless if we're living in his house, but he left it to the kids, and they want it/want to sell it.  Does he have any kind of long term care in place should he become incapacitated and I can't care for him?  There's a lot to think about in our future...things that don't even occur to you when you marry young, because you're completely involved with having a home, starting a family etc., appropriately so.  

But it's a different ballgame, an entirely different set of rules and what ifs when you marry at our age.  :eewwk:


----------



## AprilSun (Aug 25, 2018)

I say follow your "gut instinct". If you have doubts, wait until those doubts are gone. Don't rush it. Just keep dating and enjoying each other rather than rushing in to anything.


----------



## Catlady (Aug 26, 2018)

@  Ronni = Marriage is important the first time out if you plan on having children, to make them ''legit''.  When you're past 50-60 and no longer want to procreate, why bother getting married?  Society is a lot more lax now, you will no longer be ostracized if you live ''in sin''.  Just live together as husband and wife, no need for the paperwork.  Then, if it doesn't work out, each of you can just walk away without any baggage or legal expense to worry about.   After the children issue is out of the way, marriage is overrated.


----------



## Ronni (Aug 27, 2018)

I appreciate so much all your advice, suggestions, wisdom.  I'm so glad I'm here and have this great resource and access to such diversity of opinions and input!!  :love_heart:

Ron and I talked a lot over the weekend.  It's so funny, the idea of getting married when I was younger had me all fluttery, thinking about hearts and flowers and kids and romance, the thousand thoughts of a wedding and a dress and all that pomp and circumstance.....and definitely let's not forget the lust that comes with a new love!  

So different to consider it at this age.  Certainly it involves my heart, because the ONLY reason I am even considering the idea of marriage again is because of my deep feelings for Ron.   I never expected to feel this way again after becoming so thoroughly disillusioned about relationships after my disaster of a marriage.  But there are many practicalities too...finances and health and debt and house and the myriad of potential problems that can arise due to advanced age.  I mean, when you're young you think you're gonna live forever!!!  But at this age, at least for Ron and me, there is the strong recognition of our mortality.....without being in the least morbid about it, just the practical realization that we have less time ahead of us than we do behind us.  

We decided to become engaged.  But he also understands that I really need to take this in stages, that I might never actually get there as far as marriage is concerned.  Still, I really LIKE the idea of being engaged.  Even though we've both been committed and exclusive and dedicated to this relationship for some time now, still the idea of making it "official" has some appeal to me.  And he really likes that too.  

Now he's looking for a ring.  Oh my!  :love_heart:


----------



## IKE (Aug 27, 2018)

For what's it's worth I think you did the right thing by holding off on getting married for now.....go ahead and get engaged and then just wait and see what happens.


----------



## Lara (Aug 27, 2018)

That sounds perfect, Ronni. You both, made the perfect decision together. You must be so relieved and now you're free to let things go as they may on this journey together. You have no problems in the communications department. Peace, love, dove :love_heart:


----------



## Victor (Aug 27, 2018)

asking strangers what you should do, suggests that you are
not ready to marry. If you were totally into it you would not be asking everyone--in the world.
What we think does not matter much, including myself. 
I have not been married, but seems to me much depends on how much your life will change
and if you can handle the risk level of this change.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 27, 2018)

Ronni said:


> I appreciate so much all your advice, suggestions, wisdom.  I'm so glad I'm here and have this great resource and access to such diversity of opinions and input!!  :love_heart:
> 
> Ron and I talked a lot over the weekend.  It's so funny, the idea of getting married when I was younger had me all fluttery, thinking about hearts and flowers and kids and romance, the thousand thoughts of a wedding and a dress and all that pomp and circumstance.....and definitely let's not forget the lust that comes with a new love!
> 
> ...



You're a smart lady Ronni, I hope you're both very happy and enjoy a good life with each other married or not.  :sunglass:


----------



## Knight (Aug 27, 2018)

In a good marriage there are no secrets. Wondering about being left homeless if he has a will should be a topic for discussion. All his assets & liabilities a topic for discussion. Of course that applies to you as well. Finances are the most common reason for marital problems. A complete understanding of where you both are and what is expected  is essential to starting our right. If you have doubt or feel uneasy about resolving this now then hold off until you have the kind of relationship that makes knowing all ahead of time a natural part of the relationship.


----------



## Ronni (Aug 28, 2018)

Victor said:


> asking strangers what you should do, suggests that you are
> not ready to marry.



Well...er....yeah.    That was kind of the whole POINT of this post, Victor, to get other perspectives, to help clarify my uncertainties, give them names so as to better resolve them, because I WAS uncertain and caught off guard about this.  

I wanted unbiased and objective opinions and insights.  Well, let me clarify that....I wanted no bias towards me, or Ron.  None of you know us, so whatever biases you do have will not be personal to us, they will be the result of your own experiences and that's fine with me.  That's part of what I was looking for, others experiences from which to draw.  



> In a good marriage there are no secrets. Wondering about being left homeless if he has a will should be a topic for discussion. All his assets & liabilities a topic for discussion. Of course that applies to you as well. Finances are the most common reason for marital problems. A complete understanding of where you both are and what is expected is essential to starting our right. If you have doubt or feel uneasy about resolving this now then hold off until you have the kind of relationship that makes knowing all ahead of time a natural part of the relationship.




Knight I appreciate this input.  We've already begun to explore the financial aspects of this.  Thankfully our level of communication is very high so there's no problems bringing up anything either of us feel uneasy about.  If we do marry, or even just live together, we will live in his house.  I've already said that I want something very firmly in place that allows me to continue to live in his house, with some kind of financial support for the upkeep of the home, should he predecease me.  I would not expect to inherit the house, I would assume he'd leave that asset to his children.  But I also don't want to be out on the street because of that.  I have an excellent relationship with his kids and his grandkids, but I don't plan to just assume, because of that good relationship, that I would automatically be allowed to stay in the home, not without some provision for that in his will or a legal document of some kind.  He's completely in agreement with that as far as we've discussed it.  

Nothing is going to be left to chance on either side of this relationship.  I want everything in writing.  Neither of us have much, but I don't want the future familial relationships to sour because of issues we were perfectly capable of dealing with now, and didn't.


----------



## grahamg (Aug 28, 2018)

Ronni said:


> Originally Posted by *Victor*
> 
> asking strangers what you should do, suggests that you are
> not ready to marry.
> ...



I think Victor did put his finger on something in his post, and although I wish you all the luck should things go ahead with your proposed marriage, it may be more difficult than you think to have thought of "everything" before you embark on anything to do with "affairs of the heart".

I'm no expert however, and if it works for you I wont decry your success.


----------



## Ronni (Aug 29, 2018)

grahamg said:


> I think Victor did put his finger on something in his post, and although I wish you all the luck should things go ahead with your proposed marriage, it may be more difficult than you think to have thought of "everything" before you embark on anything to do with "affairs of the heart".





grahamg said:


> I'm no expert however, and if it works for you I wont decry your success.



Isn't that true though, with any marriage or partnership?  Whether you're a senior, or a young person starting out, there are, or at least should be, many things you talk about, consider, find compromises on, as you determine your future together.  I've seen young people's lives disintegrate because they didn't talk about some crucial things...like his job wanted him to move to another state which was always a possibility, but they didn't talk about what they would do if that happened, she wanted to work after she had their first child but he expected her to stay at home, they had completely different financial practices....so many differences.  

While the issues will tend to be different depending on the ages of the people involved, I don't think the fact of being a senior and considering marriage means there are more issues, they're just different.  

~~~~~~~~

I wanted to mention this too, because it's something else we talked about.  It suddenly occurred to me during one of our discussions this w/e that an engagement, while it typically  precedes a marriage, can ALSO be a stand alone thing and not something that is overshadowed by the future event it represents.  It can also be a way to celebrate a firm and binding commitment to another, as its own thing!  When I shared that thought with Ron he loved it!


----------



## fmdog44 (Aug 30, 2018)

Why marry? Why do young people get married versus older people? Just because you are each happy why change anything? You have not a single guarantee it will work. Enjoy what you have and be thankful.


----------



## jaminhealth (Sep 3, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> Why marry? Why do young people get married versus older people? Just because you are each happy why change anything? You have not a single guarantee it will work. Enjoy what you have and be thankful.



Oh boy do I agree, I married once and single for decades and comfortable and happy not to take care of anyone else but me, selfish yes, but I've seen too many stories on caregiver forums and so glad to be without a burden for another person.  

You can have a nice "free" relationship without the legal ramifications.  

I had a sweet good bf years ago and we lived together but he wanted marriage and I did not, so he had to move on, I never regretted my decision.  Sad as it was when he drove off to Minnesota, he found a wife back there, I love my freedom too much.  

I had a tough tough divorce and not a great marriage but I'd probably feel the same way as I do now if it was the other way, not sure  but I'm thinkin that and again, I don't want to take care of anyone...children or animals or people.  A couple plants yes.   Be smart.  jam


----------



## jaminhealth (Sep 3, 2018)

PVC said:


> @  Ronni = Marriage is important the first time out if you plan on having children, to make them ''legit''.  When you're past 50-60 and no longer want to procreate, why bother getting married?  Society is a lot more lax now, you will no longer be ostracized if you live ''in sin''.  Just live together as husband and wife, no need for the paperwork.  Then, if it doesn't work out, each of you can just walk away without any baggage or legal expense to worry about.   After the children issue is out of the way, marriage is overrated.



Overrated, I think so.  I haven't seen too much good ones in my 80 yrs.  Someone always gets the short end.

I have had a lot of bf's over my single life from one marriage and at this point and I know many older women who would not think of marriage at their late ages...living together maybe or trying to keep it going without the legals.   I think the older  man needs and wants marriage far more than older women.  I do believe this one.


----------



## DaveA (Sep 3, 2018)

jaminhealth stated;   "I think the older  man needs and wants marriage far more than older women.  I do believe this one."


WOW!  Do you think I might be at risk?  We're in our eighties and maybe I should be worrying about my wife still "needing" me.  We've been married for 62 years but I guess I can't afford to let my guard down, even at this late date!!!


----------



## jaminhealth (Sep 3, 2018)

DaveA said:


> jaminhealth stated;   "I think the older  man needs and wants marriage far more than older women.  I do believe this one."
> 
> 
> WOW!  Do you think I might be at risk?  We're in our eighties and maybe I should be worrying about my wife still "needing" me.  We've been married for 62 years but I guess I can't afford to let my guard down, even at this late date!!!



Well, all I can say my parents were married 63 yrs and when mom died 5 yrs ahead of dad, his children (we) had to teach him everything...how to write a check, turn on washer and dryer etc etc.  

And women, for the most part, are the caregivers of the world.  There are exceptions but this I believe to be true.


----------



## Catlady (Sep 3, 2018)

jaminhealth said:


> Well, all I can say my parents were married 63 yrs and when mom died 5 yrs ahead of dad, his children (we) had to teach him everything...how to write a check, turn on washer and dryer etc etc.
> 
> And women, for the most part, are the caregivers of the world.  There are exceptions but this I believe to be true.



In my pre-feminist past, I criticized a mother for making her teenage sons do the laundry and vacuuming and other ''women chores''.  She told me that someday they might not marry, or their wife is sick or dead, and they needed to know how to do those chores.  I realized how right she was and gave her credit for her practical wisdom.


----------



## jaminhealth (Sep 3, 2018)

PVC said:


> In my pre-feminist past, I criticized a mother for making her teenage sons do the laundry and vacuuming and other ''women chores''.  She told me that someday they might not marry, or their wife is sick or dead, and they needed to know how to do those chores.  I realized how right she was and gave her credit for her practical wisdom.



Very wise for women to teach her sons to do the "house" work.  My mother didn't..but younger men today are doing more and more in the homes.


----------



## Ronni (Sep 4, 2018)

PVC said:


> In my pre-feminist past, I criticized a mother for making her teenage sons do the laundry and vacuuming and other ''women chores''.  She told me that someday they might not marry, or their wife is sick or dead, and they needed to know how to do those chores.  I realized how right she was and gave her credit for her practical wisdom.



I have 5 kids, 4 boys and a girl.  Before my kids left home, they ALL knew how to cook simple meals, sew on a button, sew up a hem or a seam, grocery shop, sort and wash laundry, clean a bathroom, dust and mop the house.  They all also kne how to change a tire, check the oil and other fluids on their vehicles, assemble simple furniture pieces,  use a hammer and screwdriver and wrench appropriately.  

I was not gender specific with what I taught them to do. Gender roles were pretty much non-existent once I got away from my husband who was VERY sexist (amongst many other negative traits.) 

Ron ( my fiancé) does all his own cooking, and cooks for me when I'm over. He keeps a very tidy and clean house, runs his own laundry, changes his bed every week, goes grocery shopping regularly, does the many domestic duties and chores that are often looked on as "women's work." He has a large property and also keeps up with the grounds and maintenance.  He owns his own business and manages it well.   He's pretty well-rounded.


----------



## Gary O' (Sep 4, 2018)

Ronni said:


> Ron ( my fiancé) does all his own cooking, and cooks for me when I'm over. He keeps a very tidy and clean house, runs his own laundry, changes his bed every week, goes grocery shopping regularly, does the many domestic duties and chores that are often looked on as "women's work." He has a large property and also keeps up with the grounds and maintenance.  He owns his own business and manages it well.   He's pretty well-rounded.




Geeez... I want to marry him!


----------



## jaminhealth (Sep 4, 2018)

All those traits about Ron sound great...but for me I just think I'm too independent to have to run things by another person at this point in my life.  I've been single too long, I suppose and it works really good for me.  And I think too much about health as we age, I take care of my own and don't want to take care of another's....but that's me and we all have our needs and wants and even as one ages.

Ronni, I bet you have a Good Life right now.  Your children and grands and everything that goes with them.

Just thought of this one, I sleep so so good and have no desire to share my bed with anyone..I have  heard enough stories there, so just things like this one is important to consider in the whole picture.  Thinking over my life, my worst night's of sleep have been with another person there next to me and going thru their gyrations.


----------



## fmdog44 (Sep 4, 2018)

A life changing decision should not be left up to people on a website. You are not a teenager. Make the call yourself.


----------



## jaminhealth (Sep 4, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> A life changing decision should not be left up to people on a website. You are not a teenager. Make the call yourself.



Oh I'm sure Ronni will do that.


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 4, 2018)

I'm sorry, what is the reason for marriage again, at this age?


----------



## Ronni (Sep 5, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> A life changing decision should not be left up to people on a website. You are not a teenager. Make the call yourself.



I completely agree!!  

I'm not expecting anyone to make this decision FOR me, that would be foolhardy.   But as with all the major decisions in my life, I don't make them until I've gathered all the data.   When I'm uncertain about something, that just tells me I don't have enough information, so I go to whatever sources are available to me to gather more.  Facts, anecdotal info, opinions, others' experiences, books on the subject...they're all valid sources of information.

That's all I'm doing here.  If it offends you, don't read the thread.


----------



## Knight (Sep 5, 2018)

Advice, wisdom, things to think about, speculations about why I'm wary or unsure or nervous...I'd appreciate any input.


Quite a few responses which is what you were asking for. Which if any helped you form a decision? Or are you still thinking about it?


----------



## jaminhealth (Sep 5, 2018)

As I see it a person either wants to remarry or not remarry at this point in our lives.  As for me, it's a huge step and one I would not make.  I know what I have now.


----------



## C'est Moi (Sep 5, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> I'm sorry, what is the reason for marriage again, at this age?



None that I can think of.


----------



## Catlady (Sep 5, 2018)

Ronni said:


> Facts, anecdotal info, opinions, others' experiences, books on the subject...they're all valid sources of information.



I agree.  When you find out other people's take on your situation, it gives you a 360 degree view of it.  Then, you can make a better decision based on your priorities and values.  Lots of times when reading these posters's replies I read angles that I never even considered.  It's really eye-opening and most of the posters offer their unbiased opinions based on their experiences in life.  It's a win-win!


----------



## Leonie (Sep 5, 2018)

I'll throw in my two cents worth.  I read your comment about an engagement and realised that my relationship is actually an engagement, a really loooong engagement. LOL  I was asked if I wanted to marry over 20 years ago, I said yes back then, we picked out a lovely engagement ring and then .... nothing.   I'm not sure what happened, there were times when he wanted to go ahead with it, and times when I wanted to go ahead with it, but we never seemed to want that at the same time.  

So here we are, more than 20 years later still together, sharing a life (and a house) and I had more or less forgotten about the 'engagement' bit.  We are a defacto couple in the eyes of the Guv'mint in regards to pensions etc.  He refers to me as his wife, I'm more inclined to refer to him as my partner, so obviously I am aware of the distinction, but I guess it works for us.  I'm a great believer in 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' so I guess this is where it will stay for us.

I see you were thinking along those lines, and just wanted to say that it can work. I guess it's still a commitment of sorts and if you are both happy with it, that's really all that matters.


----------



## Catlady (Sep 5, 2018)

One thing you have to remember, Leonie, is that if you're still together after 20 years without the benefit of a legal piece of paper, that means that you REALLY love each other.  It's a a compliment to each other, really, because you each can walk away anytime but still stay, whereas married couples mostly stay because they dread the legal and personal and expensive and lengthy mess of having to get a divorce.


----------



## Ronni (Sep 7, 2018)

PVC said:


> I agree.  When you find out other people's take on your situation, it gives you a 360 degree view of it.  Then, you can make a better decision based on your priorities and values.  Lots of times when reading these posters's replies I read angles that I never even considered.  It's really eye-opening and most of the posters offer their unbiased opinions based on their experiences in life.  It's a win-win!



This!  Exactly!  That's why when I feel like I need more information, I'll go to every source available to me to get that 360 degree view!  



> Quite a few responses which is what you were asking for. Which if any helped you form a decision? Or are you still thinking about it?




Knight, there were so many snippets of so many posts that helped me, it's impossible to narrow down exactly what!  But even the things I disagreed with helped clarify the situation for me.  Thinking "Well, that's sure not the way *I* feel!" when I realized I disagreed with someone's take, was just as helpful in its way as those responses that had me nodding along enthusiastically!  

We agreed that as a first step we'll just be engaged, as a stand-alone thing.  We'll just do that.  Leonie I think has had a 20 year long engagement!! Maybe that will be us.   Or maybe in a year it will go in a different direction.  Who knows?  But right now, I know I want to continue a committed relationship with this man, and I like the idea of an engagement to celebrate that fact, and he's all for it, so that's the direction we're going.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 7, 2018)

Ronni, I'm a bit late to this party but will offer some advice anyway.  If I were facing your decision at this stage of life I'd first set aside the emotional components using a list of pros and cons.  Would marriage improve or erode either of your financial situations with respect to taxes, pensions, SS, etc?  Presuming one of you eventually predeceased the other, how would the survivor's finances be affected?  What would be your liabilities in case of a health catastrophe?    

If he solely owns the home where you're both living it might be time to figure something out should he die first, regardless of your marital status.  He surely wouldn't want there to be a possibility that you'd be out on the street in 30 days, I'm sure.  Regardless how well your children accept a new partner things can - and often do - go sideways after a parent's death.  Whether you marry or not it's time to have financial discussions and hire a good lawyer to draw up your wills, putting the disposition of the house and your various (separate and combined) assets in writing.     

I've been very happily married for nearly 40 years, so I am in favor of marriage.  That said, should something happen to my husband or me, the other would be very unlikely to remarry even if we found new loves or companions.  As others have stated above, there are different things to consider when marrying in one's 20s - 40s versus marrying as a senior.    

Wishing you the best...  
SS


----------



## Pookie (Sep 7, 2018)

I'd be saying, "Hey, can I help you find a ring?"


----------



## Ronni (Sep 18, 2018)

Pookie said:


> I'd be saying, "Hey, can I help you find a ring?"



That's my impulse too Pookie!!!  But he's very traditional in that regard, and wants to find something FOR me, which he will then present TO me, rather than us shopping together! He's made it clear that if I don't like it, I am free to say so and he'll keep looking. I know him well enough at this point that I know he's sincere, his feelings won't be hurt, and he'll do just that.  He's already asked me a number of questions about what I like vs what i dislike, so I know at least that he's heading in the right direction.


----------



## Ronni (Sep 18, 2018)

StarSong said:


> Ronni, I'm a bit late to this party but will offer some advice anyway.  If I were facing your decision at this stage of life I'd first set aside the emotional components using a list of pros and cons.  Would marriage improve or erode either of your financial situations with respect to taxes, pensions, SS, etc?  Presuming one of you eventually predeceased the other, how would the survivor's finances be affected?  What would be your liabilities in case of a health catastrophe?
> 
> If he solely owns the home where you're both living it might be time to figure something out should he die first, regardless of your marital status.  He surely wouldn't want there to be a possibility that you'd be out on the street in 30 days, I'm sure.  Regardless how well your children accept a new partner things can - and often do - go sideways after a parent's death.  Whether you marry or not it's time to have financial discussions and hire a good lawyer to draw up your wills, putting the disposition of the house and your various (separate and combined) assets in writing.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much SS.  These are all very appropriate suggestions.  We've touched on various of these things, though nothing definitive has been decided or done yet.  I hadn't even thought about the liabilities to either of us if there were a health crisis so thanks for that.   Honestly I've been more focused on slight changes he needs to make to his house to make it mobility friendly should one or the other of us end up with mobility issues.  He owns his own construction business so it's not a big deal for him to tackle that.   We're both in excellent health, but I know how quickly that can go sideways at our age, so the health crisis issue is a valid point.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 18, 2018)

Ronni, another possibility is a marriage that doesn't change your legal status.  There are ministers and other officiants who will gladly perform your ceremony without registering the information with the state.  They leave that step up to you.  You can follow through with the paperwork or not, your choice.  I know a number of seniors who opted for this compromise.


----------



## jaminhealth (Sep 18, 2018)

I have a friend and she's moved away so I don't know how they are doing, but her guy wanted marriage and they opted for a commitment ceremony at their Unitarian Church.  This had no legal papers involved...and they both wanted to keep their properties as they both have children as heirs.  I know his health was an issue so I don't know how they are doing but I know I'd not go that route, just me love my freedom.  And really don't want to take care of someone, when I was young I guess I would have and did, but I read too many in Caregivers groups, and omg...


----------



## Catlady (Sep 18, 2018)

Re just post #31
Ronni, if it were me in your situation and I had a house (that I liked) I would keep and rent it out and go live with Ron.  Then, when he dies or the relationship ends, you still have a house to go live in.  I think it's very unfair to the children to leave them a house with the obligation of letting the wife/girlfriend live in it forever.  You may have a great relationship with his kids now, but nothing ever stays the same forever.  They might want to sell the house and split the proceeds and resent having to keep you as a forever tenant and still be responsible for the upkeep of the house and other house-owning headaches.  I'm sure you would not do that, but some women/men in that situation might let a lover move in and trash the property and there would be no recourse for the inheriting children.  If Ron wants to will you some of the house, he could specify that you and his children inherit an equal amount of the value of the house, instead of leaving his children responsible for your housing needs after he dies.


----------



## toffee (Sep 18, 2018)

i agree above -- why do u need to marry ask yourself '  u love him visa versa -who needs the paper ; keep your home for a start '
there is no gaurantees in this life - become lovers and friends be happy ' live together ' the paper cert wont make u any happier !


----------



## jujube (Sep 18, 2018)

I know for sure that if the Spousal Equivalent died tomorrow, his sons would have me out of the house before I could get my breath.  It's just a fact of life, and I'm OK with it.  At this point of my life, I wouldn't want to be tied down with property I had to take care of.  I would leave the area quickly, so it's OK.  I have the money to provide for myself if needed.  I don't get anything from him and in return, he doesn't get anything from me.


----------



## Trade (Sep 18, 2018)

At our age my advice is don't get into anything you can't get out of easily. I say forget about getting married. Just hang out as long as it's good. Then if it turns bad, you can just walk away.


----------



## Jujo (Sep 19, 2018)

Why don’t you both live together? That way,no pressure of marriage.


----------



## Ronni (Sep 19, 2018)

PVC said:


> Re just post #31
> Ronni, if it were me in your situation and I had a house (that I liked) I would keep and rent it out and go live with Ron.  Then, when he dies or the relationship ends, you still have a house to go live in.  I think it's very unfair to the children to leave them a house with the obligation of letting the wife/girlfriend live in it forever.  You may have a great relationship with his kids now, but nothing ever stays the same forever.  They might want to sell the house and split the proceeds and resent having to keep you as a forever tenant and still be responsible for the upkeep of the house and other house-owning headaches.  I'm sure you would not do that, but some women/men in that situation might let a lover move in and trash the property and there would be no recourse for the inheriting children.



Sadly, I don't own my own home.  My ex's abuse included financial abuse, so I spent my life trying to solve our financial problems.  He completely maxed out the credit cards we had, opened more I didn't know about, lost several houses over the course of our 30+ year marriage, even overdrew at the bank so many times that we couldn't even get a checking account after a while.  My credit was in the toilet for the longest time.  He was perfectly capable of earning a 6 figure income, and did.....up until he decided that he was worth more, or that "they're a$$holes" or some other drivel, and walked off the job.  OR he was so rude and derogatory to the people he worked with that he was fired, even though the work he did was superlative.  He's won awards for his ad designs etc., he was gifted and perfectly capable, just could not and would not play nicely with others!!  So much of the time I was scrambling to find any kind of work to cover the basics, and would have to dip into savings to feed the family.  Enough of that kind of scrambling over the course of our time together, and I ended up with NOTHING financially.  

Anyway, it's taken me years to pay off the debts that he accumulated (most were in my name because his credit was bad and mine wasn't) and it's only very recently that I have become almost debt free.  I'm slowly rebuilding my credit, but meanwhile I don't own any property.  So giving up my house isn't a thing, because I don't have one!!!  Not many folks my age are at such a low ebb financially, and it sucks, but I'm plugging along.

He's talked about leaving me the house, wanting to change his will etc., but I honestly don't want to stay in his house if he dies before I do.  I don't want the upkeep or the responsibility.  I would move as quickly as I could to something smaller, maybe some senior community or whatever.  Or move in with one of my kids...two of them have mother in law suites and both of them keep trying to get me to move in with them, but I'm too damn independent haha!   



> If Ron wants to will you some of the house, he could specify that you and his children inherit an equal amount of the value of the house, instead of leaving his children responsible for your housing needs after he dies.



This is an excellent idea!!!  I'd so much rather his kids get whatever they can out of the house, especially because I don't want the responsibility, but I also wouldn't say no to receiving some financial benefit, just not the physical ownership.  

There's a lot for us to talk about and sort out, so I don't know how this will play out, but I love getting these perspectives because it gives me new angles to look at!


----------



## Catlady (Sep 19, 2018)

Ronni, your former husband and marriage sounds just like my daughter's former life.  He sounds just like my former son-in-law.  He even started taking blank checks from the middle of the checkbook and then my daughter would get overdrawn fees.  She then gave me her checkbooks to hold for her and just kept a few checks to use.  She finally threw in the towel on the marriage and divorced him, with nothing to her name and her credit in shreds.  Sorry for what you went through.


----------



## Ronni (Sep 20, 2018)

PVC said:


> Ronni, your former husband and marriage sounds just like my daughter's former life.  He sounds just like my former son-in-law.  He even started taking blank checks from the middle of the checkbook and then my daughter would get overdrawn fees.  She then gave me her checkbooks to hold for her and just kept a few checks to use.  She finally threw in the towel on the marriage and divorced him, with nothing to her name and her credit in shreds.  Sorry for what you went through.



I am so sorry about your daughter!    Having lived it, I know what hell it is.  Thanks for understanding.  

I was so traditional about marriage, having had it modeled for me by my Ozzie and Harriet style 50's parents.  You were a dutiful wife, you supported your husband, you were loyal, etc. My parents' marriage as far as I know was good.  They loved each other, Dad was definitely the boss, but not in a controlling or abusive way.  They were together for 50+ years.  That's what I thought I was doing, being a good wife, working on my marriage, and as it devolved, buying into the idea that it was all my fault, that I needed to work harder, if I could just do this or that right, or better, or at all, things would go much more smoothly.  Plus there were kids, and I was very dedicated to keeping the family together for them.  It took me a long time to see the light, and I've sometimes been criticized for that.  But I've also spent a lot of time in counseling, and a lot of time educating myself about the dynamic of abuse and the psychology of the abuser, and when you're as controlled and dominated as I was, and so completely isolated, that you come to accept your life as "normal" however AB-normal it actually is.  

There are many women who NEVER leave.  I'm glad I did, even as long as it took me.  My life and the lives of my children are so much better for it.  They have no contact with their father, we're not even sure where he is at this point.  He doesn't have much interest in these children he fathered or being a grandfather to his 10 grandkids.  Ron is more grandpa to my grandkids than my ex is.  

I hate the negative impact my ex is still having on my life in terms of my credit, my inability to retire because of finances, being a senior and still owning basically nothing.  On the other hand, I shudder to think what my life would be like now if I'd stayed with him. No matter what, my life is incomparably improved being away from him.  

Well, didn't mean to go off on that topic lol!  I'm glad your daughter is OK PVC.  <3


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 20, 2018)

Trade said:


> At our age my advice is don't get into anything you can't get out of easily. I say forget about getting married. Just hang out as long as it's good. Then if it turns bad, you can just walk away.



I completely agree.

You're not going to create a family nor form a political alliance that would affect nations. 

No reason to marry.


----------

