# Have you ever visited a mosque and asked questions?



## Warrigal (Oct 25, 2014)

I have. Both as a tourist overseas and as a cultural visitor in Sydney.
Same with the Great Synagogue in Sydney.

On Saturday last mosques across Australia held open days, not for the purpose of converting people, but to allow non muslims a chance to enter, ask questions and receive hospitality. 

A step in the right direction IMO. A step towards understanding on both sides of the fence.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-25/australias-mosques-throw-open-their-doors/5841502

Me and a young man name Ali at the Lakemba mosque not far from where I live.



As you can see, I'm not very good at wearing head coverings but at least I tried.


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## Ameriscot (Oct 25, 2014)

Very good idea.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 25, 2014)

No, I've never visited a mosque or other churches of various religions either, but it's nice that you did Warri.  We hear so much of the radical muslim terrorists, that we forget about those who are peaceful.  Great pic!


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## Bee (Oct 25, 2014)

There have been open days at several Mosques in England for the same purpose, dispelling myths about Islam.

With two close family members being Muslims, I ask them all I need to know and understand.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 25, 2014)

I have not visited a mosque... however, I have had multiple indepth conversations Muslims


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## Pam (Oct 26, 2014)

Nice photo, Warrigal. Considering that as a child and teenager I lived in a muslim country you'd think I might have visited a mosque.. but no, I never did. Probably more interested in other things at the time.   I loved my time there and had both muslim and Christian friends, religion was never a barrier, we simply accepted each other and got on with living.


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## Ameriscot (Oct 26, 2014)

I watched a series on the Muslim religion and many should also try to learn about it. Members of my own family in the US are convinced that all Muslims are terrorists and it really angers me. I think the US media promotes this fear. They thought it was dangerous for me to go to Morocco for my 60th birthday because it's a Muslim country. Grrr.


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## Warrigal (Oct 26, 2014)

I must admit that I was a bit apprehensive about holidays in Egypt and Turkey but my fears were groundless. However when venturing into an unfamiliar culture you do need to be cautious because we don't understand the rules. New migrants find themselves in much the same predicament. A mixture of unease and confusion. When we experience it ourselves we begin to understand it in others.

I believe it is akin to walking a mile in someone else's moccasins.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 26, 2014)

“And tell the believing      women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect      their private parts (from illegal ****** acts) and not to show off their      adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity      to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil,      gloves, headcover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna      (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their      adornment except to their husbands…”


_[al-Noor 24:31] 
_


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## Warrigal (Oct 26, 2014)

Means nothing to me, but to some Muslim women it is most important.
To each her own.


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## Twixie (Oct 26, 2014)

I visited an ancient cemetery in Turkey..and in the middle of it was a mosque..

I ask the Imam..if I could go and have a look at the amazing 16th century tiles on the walls..

He said ''With the greatest of pleasure'' and showed me round explaining everything..

He couldn't have been kinder...


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## Lon (Oct 26, 2014)

No I have never visited a Mosque, but then, I have never visited a number of religious temples, churches, shrines etc. If  I have questions about a particular religion or faith I will research it.


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## Warrigal (Oct 26, 2014)

That would have been me once, Lon, but as a teacher I sometimes accompanied the students on visits to various Christian and non Christian buildings of worship. We went to a Salvation Army citadel, the Great Synagogue (and the Jewish Holocaust museum), a Buddhist prayer hall and an historic catholic church dating back to colonial times as well as St Mary's Cathedral including the crypt. On each visit I learnt much from the guides and came away interested to learn more. 

More recently I've been to a Sikh guduwara near my home, learnt about the history of Sikhism, the reasons why they wear turbans, and their worship practices. Then they shared a meal with us. We all sat on the floor because no-one is more important than anyone else. There is no High Table for the important people or the guests.

Now when I see a big man with a dark beard, wearing a turban, I know what he is, what he believes and how to approach him without fear. I know what food to offer if a Sikh family comes to our children's playgroup.

Books provide knowledge but personal experience provides insight as far as I am concerned. Architecture is also very enlightening if you want to understand what people value most. Buildings can be very eloquent too but you have to stand within them. Photos don't reveal as much as standing quietly inside and looking all around.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 27, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Means nothing to me, but to some Muslim women it is most important.
> To each her own.



Does the fact that the Quran contains at least 109 verses that call for war against non-believers mean anything? Especially the more graphic passages, such as the ones calling for chopping off fingers and heads of infidels wherever they may be? 

Does that add any understanding to Islam?


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## Warrigal (Oct 27, 2014)

Yes, those passages do mean a lot to me and it is something that needs to be known about.

It is these texts that appeal to fanatics but not to everyday Muslims any more than everyday Christians stone their children for disobedience, a practice commanded in Leviticus, I believe.

Most people pick and choose which parts of their ancients texts they will take literally and which parts they will ignore.
I ignore a lot of what I consider to be culturally rooted in pre-Roman civilisation. Like allowing my children to be stoned.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 27, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Yes, those passages do mean a lot to me and it is something that needs to be known about.



Agreed.



> It is these texts that appeal to fanatics but not to everyday Muslims any more than everyday Christians stone their children for disobedience, a practice commanded in Leviticus, I believe.



I believe there is a difference with that, though ... unlike almost all of the Old Testament verses of violence, those of the Quran are mostly open-ended - they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the unchanging word of Allah and are as relevant - and obeyed - as all the other verses.



> Most people pick and choose which parts of their ancients texts they will take literally and which parts they will ignore.
> I ignore a lot of what I consider to be culturally rooted in pre-Roman civilisation. Like allowing my children to be stoned.



We do not often - if at all - see our children stoned, at least not in _that_ sense. What we DO see today is the continuing _fatwah_ to kill the unbelievers. As for picking and choosing - that may well apply to Christians, but to_ Muslims_? I remain unconvinced ...


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## Warrigal (Oct 27, 2014)

There is an underlying problem in that they believe that the Quran was transmitted directly from Allah to Mohammed and every word is perfect and true, even though, like the Bible there is much that is internally contradictory. 

Christian scholarship has gone beyond this mindset even though a lot of Christians have not. I'm not sure where Islamic scholarship is at but given the treatment meted out to Rushdie I think it has a long way to go before it throws off the shackles of medievalism. Also, although interpretation of the texts is allowed, the only people allowed to interpret them are the imans, the Muslim equivalent of the pre-Reformation catholic priests. Islam needs its own Reformation or modernisation event.

Sooner or later it will come but it will be bloody. 
The worse ISIL behaves, the closer the time comes.
They are mostly killing Muslims; Christians to a much lesser degree.



> As for picking and choosing - that may well apply to Christians, but to_ Muslims_? I remain unconvinced ...



The men do it all the time and when the women are allowed to partake in Islamic studies they are calling the men out. 
Believe me, everyone cherrypicks the scriptures and turns a blind eye to the rest. Even biblical fundamentalists and Muslims.


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## jujube (Oct 27, 2014)

My late husband and I lived in Turkey for 2 1/2 years in the late 1960's, early 1970's.  We often caught the ferry to Istanbul and visited the great mosques.  On every visit, someone would come up to us and offer us a tour of the mosque, to have tea with an Imam, or just to ask if we had any questions.  We spent many an hour discussing theology (my late husband was a Catholic seminary graduate and I, well I went to Sunday School for 12 years..... )   We always felt welcome.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 28, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> They are mostly killing Muslims; Christians to a much lesser degree.



From what I've read there are over 200,00 Christians in Iraq and Syria - MANY of whom are missing. Entire towns-full, such as Mosul, have been emptied of Christians.

Yes, they kill Muslims; but their mission, their holy word, their jihad is to kill non-believers.


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## Warrigal (Oct 28, 2014)

Christians largely evacuated from Iraq after Sadaam was deposed. He had been their protection.
Of those that were in northern Iraq and Syria have also been running and I think most are now in Jordan.
Those that remained are dead if ISIS overruns their towns,

However, so are the Shia, Sunnis, Yazidis and Kurds unless they fight for their lives.
All are classed as non believers by ISIS.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 28, 2014)

So if the local group of Christians here in Pennsylvania created a splinter group of killers, should I still claim to one and all that I love Christians, trust them, and that "they're not all bad"? 

Should I say that while the splinter group is taking heads and engaging in mass killings, while the "parent" group does nothing? 

I'm sorry - I know it isn't PC but I don't trust _any_ Muslim. I'm sure there are good ones, probably they're the majority, but their blood has been tainted by their psychotic brothers. 

If your credo tells you to kill me because I'm an unbeliever, I see no reason to trust or accept you. You are my enemy.


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## Warrigal (Oct 28, 2014)

Trust is essential for peace and peace of mind.

I was very wary about travelling to Egypt in 2000. There had a few years ago been conflict and tourists were being targeted. A busload of Germans were gunned down inside one of the important temples so my concern was not unfounded. We were also headed for Turkey, a country we helped to invade in 1915, and although we failed, we still killed more Turks than they killed Australians. They could have been somewhat snakey about that.

My fears were unfounded in both places. I could have made friends with a lot of the people I met. Making friends, breaking bread together is penicillin for fear and hostility.

We can't change the wording of Scripture or other old texts but we can change the attitude of the reader, change the way the text is interpreted. That is where I put my confidence that things can be different to the way they are now.


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## oakapple (Oct 28, 2014)

Yes, years ago I visited a mosque [in Istanbul] very beautiful in fact.Lots of tourists milling about, didn't speak to anyone[can't speak Turkish anyway.]I have also visited a Hindu temple [here , in London.]Never visited a synagogue though.I know everyone says that religion has killed so many people over the years [true] however it's not because of religion 'per se' it's just that religion is used as an excuse to do terrible things  in the intersts of gaining power and land and money [and oil and weapons and gold etc.]I don't really need to know all there is to know about Islam to know that most Muslims don't go about killing people in the street, any more than Christians or Jews do.However, of course there is a problem at the moment with Muslims who are using extreme passages of the Koran to justify their power hungry brand of terrorism to establish a 'Caliphate'
in the Middle East. Sadly, young people from the UK and Europe [and US] and OZ NZ maybe too,even Canada,are being drawn into this mess, whether from religious, or more mundane reasons , who knows?Nobody should think that every Muslim they meet is about to pull a knife on them.


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## oakapple (Oct 28, 2014)

If there was no religion in the world, far from it bringing about peace and goodwill everywhere, people [and governments] would find plenty of reasons to have wars.We wear blue hats, those awful people wear red hats etc.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 28, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Trust is essential for peace and peace of mind.



I attempt to find peace through other methods - meditation, Taijiquan and such. My trust was strained very early in life and I realize that this may have caused me to become the "monk" that I am.

Such is life. 



> I was very wary about travelling to Egypt in 2000. There had a few years ago been conflict and tourists were being targeted. A busload of Germans were gunned down inside one of the important temples so my concern was not unfounded. We were also headed for Turkey, a country we helped to invade in 1915, and although we failed, we still killed more Turks than they killed Australians. They could have been somewhat snakey about that.



You probably felt the same way I did when I traveled to Newark, New Jersey in 1975. Like Egypt, there were past and present conflicts and white boys like myself were being targeted. There were several killings and dozens of muggings in the previous months. 



> My fears were unfounded in both places. I could have made friends with a lot of the people I met. Making friends, breaking bread together is penicillin for fear and hostility.



Unlike your experiences my fears were well founded. I could not have made friends with these people if I were to offer them a million dollars. They were breaking heads, not breads, and penicillin would have been low on my list of necessities - more like Ace bandages and sutures. 



> We can't change the wording of Scripture or other old texts but we can change the attitude of the reader, change the way the text is interpreted. That is where I put my confidence that things can be different to the way they are now.



Silly me - I would think it would be easier and more effective to change the _wording_!  People are _notoriously_ difficult to change ...


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## Warrigal (Oct 28, 2014)

You and I, Phil, are proof of the conundrum of parallel but intersecting universes.
I'm speaking metaphysically, of course.

By the way, "Such is life" is reputed to be among the last words of our most famous outlaw, the bushranger Ned Kelly, not long before they hanged him and buried him in the grounds of Melbourne gaol, minus his handsome head. For many Aussies, he is a favourite son.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 29, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> You and I, Phil, are proof of the conundrum of parallel but intersecting universes.
> I'm speaking *metaphysically*, of course.



Good - I finally get to use my degree! 



> By the way, "Such is life" is reputed to be among the last words of our most famous outlaw, the bushranger Ned Kelly, not long before they hanged him and buried him in the grounds of Melbourne gaol, minus his handsome head. For many Aussies, he is a favourite son.



After you mentioned him I went and read the entire Wiki entry on him - and it was a LONG one! He was quite a character ... I loved the armor he made out of plow parts! I had heard of him before, of course, but never got into the details. 

Now_ I_ want to be a bushbaby ... er, bushranger ... too! :sentimental:


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## Warrigal (Oct 29, 2014)

Did you read his Jerilderie letter?
He may have been an outlaw but he was no common criminal.

I'm rather fond of Ned.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 29, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Did you read his Jerilderie letter?
> He may have been an outlaw but he was no common criminal.
> 
> I'm rather fond of Ned.



I looked at it, but being that it's over 7K words long I just bookmarked it for later consumption. 

I particularly liked his manly beard. 



His was quite a complex story as well - all the (crooked?) policemen didn't make it any easier.


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## oakapple (Oct 29, 2014)

Didn't Mick Jagger play him once in a film? [Ned Kelly.]
SifuPhil, do you require supplies mailed to you in your monk's cell?


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## Warrigal (Oct 29, 2014)

He did, oakapple and so did Heath Ledger but neither did the man justice IMO.

The interesting thing about Ned is that apart from shooting the police at Stringybark Creek, he never killed or harmed anyone in any of his holdups. He rounded townsfolk up while he robbed a bank and then left town. He was protected by the common folk who had no love for the very corrupt police. They refused to give up any information about him or his whereabouts.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 29, 2014)

oakapple said:


> SifuPhil, do you require supplies mailed to you in your monk's cell?




Yes, but luckily there's MonkBay.com - everything a monk needs!

Here I am with my latest treasure - a chamber pot once owned by Thich Nhat Hanh - that I got on a "Buy It Now" for only $49.95!


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## SifuPhil (Oct 29, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> The interesting thing about Ned is that apart from shooting the police at Stringybark Creek, he never killed or harmed anyone in any of his holdups. He rounded townsfolk up while he robbed a bank and then left town. He was protected by the common folk who had no love for the very corrupt police. They refused to give up any information about him or his whereabouts.



Meanwhile the police burned down the hotel he was holed up in, shot hostages ... in short, acted a lot more criminal than Ned. 

Fascinating stuff!


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## Warrigal (Oct 29, 2014)

He did plan to blow up the train they were travelling in though.


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