# Updated CDC guidance acknowledges coronavirus can spread through the air



## Becky1951 (Sep 20, 2020)

(CNN) The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated guidance on its website to say coronavirus can commonly spread "through respiratory droplets or small particles, such as those in aerosols," which are produced even when a person breathes.

"Airborne viruses, including COVID-19, are among the most contagious and easily spread," the site now says.
Previously, the CDC page said that Covid-19 was thought to spread mainly between people in close contact -- about 6 feet -- and "through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes or talks."

The page, updated Friday, still says Covid-19 most commonly spreads between people who are in close contact with one another, and now says the virus is known to spread "through respiratory droplets or small particles, such as those in aerosols, produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, sings, talks or breathes." 

These particles can cause infection when "inhaled into the nose, mouth, airways, and lungs," it says. "This is thought to be the main way the virus spreads."

"There is growing evidence that droplets and airborne particles can remain suspended in the air and be breathed in by others, and travel distances beyond 6 feet (for example, during choir practice, in restaurants, or in fitness classes)," the page now says. "In general, indoor environments without good ventilation increase this risk."

The CDC also added new measures to its information about protecting yourself and others.

Previously, CDC suggested maintaining "good social distance" of about 6 feet, washing hands, routinely cleaning and disinfecting surfaces and covering your mouth and nose with a mask when around others.
Now, it says "stay at least 6 feet away from others, whenever possible," and continues to direct people to wear a mask and routinely clean and disinfect. However, it also now says people should stay home and isolate when sick, and "use air purifiers to help reduce airborne germs in indoor spaces."

Masks, it notes, should not replace other prevention measures.
The update also changed language around asymptomatic transmission, shifting from saying "some people without symptoms may be able to spread the virus" to saying "people who are infected but do not show symptoms can spread the virus to others."

More at:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/20/health/cdc-coronavirus-airborne-transmission/index.html


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 20, 2020)

With the start of the fall season just days away, I will not only be continuing practicing my stringent social-distancing measures, I'll also be leaving the house selectively to avoid crowds and people in general, and I suspect others who care about preserving their health and well-being will be doing the same.

It's the smart thing to do.


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## Lakeland living (Sep 20, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> With the start of the fall season just days away, I will not only be continuing practicing my stringent social-distancing measures, I'll also be leaving the house selectively to avoid crowds and people in general, and I suspect others who care about preserving their health and well-being will be doing the same.
> 
> It's the smart thing to do.


Aha!  Common sense..


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## win231 (Sep 20, 2020)

I don't know how "new" that information is.  I read that a couple of months ago.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 20, 2020)

win231 said:


> I don't know how "new" that information is.  I read that a couple of months ago.




"Previously, the CDC page said that Covid-19 was thought to spread mainly between people in close contact -- about 6 feet -- and "through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person *coughs, sneezes or talks."

"The page, updated Friday, *still says Covid-19 most commonly spreads between people who are in close contact with one another, and now says the virus is known to spread "through respiratory droplets or small particles, such as those in aerosols, produced when an infected person *coughs, sneezes,* *sings*, *talks* or* breathes.*" 

"Previously, CDC suggested maintaining "good social distance" of *about* 6 feet,"

 "Now, it says "*stay at least *6 feet away from others,"


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## Ruthanne (Sep 20, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> (CNN) The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated guidance on its website to say coronavirus can commonly spread "through respiratory droplets or small particles, such as those in aerosols," which are produced even when a person breathes.
> 
> "Airborne viruses, including COVID-19, are among the most contagious and easily spread," the site now says.
> Previously, the CDC page said that Covid-19 was thought to spread mainly between people in close contact -- about 6 feet -- and "through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes or talks."
> ...


I don't know why they are just acknowledging that now; we've known it forever!  It takes about 5 minutes of talking to someone infected to actually transmit the virus...I have heard other estimates of 10 minutes and 15 minutes, too, but I'll err on the side of caution if necessary.


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## Lakeland living (Sep 21, 2020)

Confusion, that is what they are getting good at. We are now getting the same lines we got a long time ago. 
    It has been proven that crowds increase the risk of catching covid, yet people still do it. Many are refusing to wear masks
around others, many of those are getting sick. BUT not all. Many that are getting sick are sick because someone else did not use caution in what they did.
     More than one person has expressed this point... You can't cure stupid!!!


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## Sunny (Sep 21, 2020)

win231 said:


> I don't know how "new" that information is.  I read that a couple of months ago.



No, you didn't, Win. This information just came out yesterday.  Previously, it was thought that the virus couldn't spread beyond a distance of 6 feet; now, it appears it's even worse than that.


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## AnnieA (Sep 21, 2020)

I read back in the spring that viable particles were found in AC vents in hospitals.  Am also pretty sure the Diamond Princess covered their air vents towards the end.  I've been treating it as airborne for months.


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## StarSong (Sep 21, 2020)

Thank you for that update, @Becky1951. My father was a chemist by education and training.  He used to say that good scientists don't stay attached or beholden to a conclusion; there is always more to learn and refinements to be made.


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## Irwin (Sep 21, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> (CNN) The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated guidance on its website to say coronavirus can commonly spread "through respiratory droplets or small particles, such as those in aerosols," which are produced even when a person breathes.



They've since taken down that information. The CDC has been completely politicized and is no longer a reliable source for information. Sad.


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## AnnieA (Sep 21, 2020)

Irwin said:


> They've since taken down that information. The CDC has been completely politicized and is no longer a reliable source for information. Sad.



I think more than politicized, they're strongly influenced by pharmaceutical payouts.  They've flubbed so much about this pandemic.  Remember the early testing fiascos due to poor laboratory procedures?


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## fmdog44 (Sep 21, 2020)

We passed the 200,000 dead mark. Now shooting for a quarter million by the end of 2020. What a great country!


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## macgeek (Sep 21, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> What a great country!



I would not want to live anywhere else. I do miss some of the freedoms we use to have.


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## Irwin (Sep 21, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> We passed the 200,000 dead mark. Now shooting for a quarter million by the end of 2020. What a great country!



We're number one! We're number one! U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!


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## macgeek (Sep 21, 2020)

good news. we often forget to see the good news.

With all the people that live there, I don't believe for a second that China had only 4,600 deaths. Someone is lying.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 21, 2020)

So it was updated and then removed because the reports information hadn't been peer reviewed, yet scientists/researchers have been pushing for the CDC to change the older information to include the information about air borne particles that they believe are true, which seem to me to be good information for us to know or consider in our keeping ourselves safe.
They have to review it.........and how long will that take and how many peoples lives are in jeopardy while following the current CDC information?

*CDC reverses itself and says guidelines it posted on coronavirus airborne transmission were wrong.*

On Monday morning, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention edited its Web page describing how the novel coronavirus spreads, removing recently added language saying it was “possible” that it spreads via airborne transmission. It was the third major revision to CDC information or guidelines published since May. 

The agency had posted information Friday stating the virus can transmit over a distance beyond six feet, suggesting that indoor ventilation is key to protecting against a virus that has now killed nearly 200,000 Americans.
The CDC shifted its guidelines Friday, but the change was not widely noticed until a CNN report Sunday. Where the agency previously warned that the virus mostly spreads through large drops encountered at close range, on Friday, it had said “small particles, such as those in aerosols,” were a common vector.

But Jay Butler, the CDC’s deputy director for infectious disease, said the Friday update was posted in error. “Unfortunately an early draft of a revision went up without any technical review,” he said.
The edited Web page has removed all references to airborne spread, except for a disclaimer that recommendations based on this mode of transmission are under review. “We are returning to the earlier version and revisiting that process,” Butler said. “It was a failure of process at CDC.”

For months, scientists and public health experts have warned of mounting evidence that the coronavirus is airborne, transmitted through tiny droplets called aerosols that linger in the air much longer than the larger globs that come from coughing or sneezing.

Experts who reviewed the CDC’s Friday post had said the language change had the power to shift policy and public behavior. Some suggested it should drive a major rethinking of public policy — particularly at a time when students in many areas are returning to indoor classrooms.

It was a “major change,” Jose-Luis Jimenez, a chemistry professor at the University of Colorado at Boulder who studies how aerosols spread the virus, told The Washington Post before the CDC reversed itself. “This is a good thing, if we can reduce transmission because more people understand how it is spreading and know what to do to stop it.”

Since the pandemic began, experts have debated the ways the virus travels — and the methods to best halt it. At first, widespread fear of contaminated surfaces led some to bleach their groceries and mail. But the CDC soon concluded that person-to-person transmission was a much more pressing threat. Instead, the agency focused its guidance on avoiding the larger droplets hacked up by sneezes and coughs, which are thought to be mostly limited to a six-foot radius.

“We have been saying ‘wear a mask’ and ‘6 feet apart’ for months,” tweeted Abraar Karan, a physician at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston and Harvard Medical School. Karan said six feet of separation may be insufficient, particularly in poorly ventilated indoor areas.

Some researchers suspected that the virus could travel much farther, especially indoors and in places where people talk loudly or sing. Infamously, one infected person in March unknowingly passed the coronavirus to 52 others at a choir practice in Washington state. Similar indoor “superspreader” events added weight to the idea of an airborne threat.

The World Health Organization recognized the threat of aerosols in July, after hundreds of scientists urged the international body to address airborne spread. It is not clear why the CDC finally followed; Jimenez said high-ranking CDC officials were still arguing publicly against airborne transmission as a major vector as recently as late August.
“Evidence has been accumulating for some time,” Jimenez said. “Those of us who have been studying this were frustrated that the change was slow, but it finally came.”

When asked who wrote the draft that was posted in error, Butler said: “I don’t have all of that information. Obviously I’m asking some of the same questions.”
The CDC is “very intensively” discussing guardrails in the publication process to prevent a repeat error. “This cannot happen again,” Butler said. In May, the CDC updated an information page that suggested the coronavirus did not spread easily from contaminated surfaces. It also edited that revision after the update received widespread media attention to clarify that the tweak was “not a result of any new science.”
And last week, the CDC reversed testing guidelines to again recommend that anyone, regardless of symptoms, who has been in close contact with an infected person be tested. The White House coronavirus task force had directed the agency to change those guidelines in August, allowing that asymptomatic people did not need to be tested.

And last week, the CDC reversed testing guidelines to again recommend that anyone, regardless of symptoms, who has been in close contact with an infected person be tested. The White House coronavirus task force had directed the agency to change those guidelines in August, allowing that asymptomatic people did not need to be tested.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...rm_c8yS9i3P7E2AeXO_HRqIFub90hHUI2z0tNsmzsb5kM


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## Pink Biz (Sep 21, 2020)

*Once highly esteemed and globally respected scientific entities, trust in the CDC and FDA is now woefully lacking.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coro...dance-on-airborne-transmission-164441858.html*


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## Sunny (Sep 22, 2020)

At this point, my head is spinning.

I don't understand what's new, or controversial about the virus being airborne. Isn't that what the masks are all about?  We have known that the virus is airborne since day 1.  Is the big difference in what size droplets carry the virus? The article says,
" stay at least 6 feet away from others, whenever possible," and continues to direct people to wear a mask and routinely clean and disinfect. However, it also now says people should stay home and isolate when sick, and "use air purifiers to help reduce airborne germs in indoor spaces." 
This is supposed to be new?  It's what we've been doing for 6 months!

Sounds a lot like what they used to print on a "slow news day."But we haven't had too many of those lately.


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## StarSong (Sep 22, 2020)

@Sunny, when reading @Becky1951's OP, I find the "new" guidance states that the aerosolized particles travel farther than 6' feet, suggesting people would be well advised to increase their distance from that 6'.  

Since the CDC is under the auspices of the Department of Health and Human Services (the head of which is a cabinet position), it's fairly obvious why the CDC has gone from an internationally respected entity to a silly marionette forced to dance to the tune of its higher ups. If these tortured machinations were a movie plot, they'd would be dismissed as being too unlikely and far-fetched. 

Americans are increasingly being put in the position of having to figure things out for ourselves. Entities with their own agendas offer plenty of spin and advice. It's little wonder we're all over the board on how to react to COVID.

I believe the CDC meant what it said on Sunday and was pressured to take it down. No doubt a watered down version will appear soon.

The US is a hot mess when it comes to this virus and the response to it by various elected and appointed leaders.


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## gennie (Sep 26, 2020)

As I understand it, a mask will catch most droplets but not particularly aerosols.  I heard it explained like this.  Think of aerosols as smoke.  It can travel long distances, can linger (crowded, close room), and can be wind-driven.  

Any non-smoker who remembers spending the evening in a smoke filled bar knows that your clothes will smell smoky when you get home.


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## StarSong (Oct 1, 2020)

gennie said:


> As I understand it, a mask will catch most droplets but not particularly aerosols.  I heard it explained like this.  Think of aerosols as smoke.  It can travel long distances, can linger (crowded, close room), and can be wind-driven.
> 
> Any non-smoker who remembers spending the evening in a smoke filled bar knows that your clothes will smell smoky when you get home.



I double mask in public settings - so four layers of cloth.  
Masks won't necessarily catch *all* aerosolized particles, but they catch a lot and slow down others. Smokers or former smokers will tell you that if they exhale through a cloth mask a lot less smoke will go through. That mask will get mighty dirty in a hurry.

No avoidance technique is foolproof (outside of a full quarantine with zero outside contact of any kind).

All we can do is improve our odds. Masks, clean hands, social distancing, and limited time in public areas are all good virus avoidance techniques. The more of them we rigorously employ, the less likely we are to contract this virus.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 1, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I double mask in public settings - so four layers of cloth.
> Masks won't necessarily catch *all* aerosolized particles, but they catch a lot and slow down others. *Smokers or former smokers will tell you that if they exhale through a cloth mask a lot less smoke will go through.* That mask will get mighty dirty in a hurry.
> 
> No avoidance technique is foolproof (outside of a full quarantine with zero outside contact of any kind).
> ...


I believe it.

Cloth fibers seem like they would be more apt to catch and retain particulate better than thinner paper fibres.


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## Sunny (Oct 1, 2020)

I have a serious problem breathing through those masks, especially the cloth kind. I think if I tried wearing a double mask, I'd stop breathing altogether.

I do a little better with that paper kind that is white on one side, light blue on the other. It may not offer as much protection as the cloth kind, but then it's nice to be able to breathe.  Great choice for someone like me: Either stop breathing, or get COVID!

Of course, I wear a mask at all times when outside of my apartment. I even wear one when going down the hall to throw out the trash, or down to the lobby to get the mail. (I'm required to.}  But I really hate them. I wish someone would invent one for ordinary, everyday use that a person can breathe through, and that doesn't fog up your glasses.


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## StarSong (Oct 1, 2020)

I'm fortunate to have no breathing problems.  No COPD or other lung issues. I wear double masks because I saw a doctor do it and *he recommended the practice* *if one is able to do so*. DH & I can - and with no struggle or discomfort - and therefore we double mask when shopping or run errands. 

It's like anything. We all do the best we can.


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## Lewkat (Oct 1, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> We passed the 200,000 dead mark. Now shooting for a quarter million by the end of 2020. What a great country!


If, indeed that is an accurate number.


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## StarSong (Oct 1, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> If, indeed that is an accurate number.


It's probably quite a bit higher.


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## hellomimi (Oct 2, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> We passed the 200,000 dead mark. Now shooting for a quarter million by the end of 2020. What a great country!


Still is, and will be. 

Those who have not lived/ experienced life in the third world do not realize how blessed they are to live in this country.


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## DaveA (Oct 2, 2020)

Medical and scientific sources should and will continue to make minor adjustments in their recommendations as more info is unearthed concerning this latest virus.  It's been like this for many illnesses for years.  Rarely, if ever, is any one of these situations solved overnight. 

What has been outrageous and most likely causing far more deaths and illness than was necessary is the nitwits (most with no medical background) running around yelling "fake" and "hoax" and other such pronouncements, suggesting that we need to take no precautions and let life go on as usual.

In my lifetime, this is the first time I can recall, that some people are looking to political sources for their guidance in avoiding a "new" disease?  Rather sad IMHO.


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## StarSong (Oct 2, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> Those who have not lived/ experienced life in the third world do not realize how blessed they are to live in this country.


People in any "first world" country (hate that term but will use it in this case) are blessed by the accident of their birth. Not just the US.

p.s.  To reframe one's thinking about poverty and "third world" living, I highly, highly recommend _Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About the World—and Why Things Are Better Than You Think, _by Hans Rosling.


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## Don M. (Oct 2, 2020)

It's pretty obvious that this virus can spread through the air....especially in an indoor setting where there are large numbers of people.  I would like to see a Nationwide Mandate requiring people to wear a mask while out in public.  Perhaps events in this mornings news will begin to change the minds of those who seem to deny the severity of this illness.


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## win231 (Oct 2, 2020)

Recent studies show you can get Coronavirus just by thinking about it.


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## Irwin (Oct 2, 2020)

win231 said:


> Recent studies show you can get Coronavirus just by thinking about it.



Or through a website if you don't have anitvirus protection. Wear a mask!


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## gennie (Oct 2, 2020)

win231 said:


> Recent studies show you can get Coronavirus just by thinking about it.


There is a thread here for Covid humor and this ain't it.


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## win231 (Oct 2, 2020)

gennie said:


> There is a thread here for Covid humor and this ain't it.


What nerve I have!!


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## gennie (Oct 2, 2020)

Don M. said:


> It's pretty obvious that this virus can spread through the air....especially in an indoor setting where there are large numbers of people.  I would like to see a Nationwide Mandate requiring people to wear a mask while out in public.  Perhaps events in this mornings news will begin to change the minds of those who seem to deny the severity of this illness.


I see this morning's events as the path to a resignation,  the pardoning of the century and a massive election mess.  May God (or whoever is in charge of that) have mercy on us all.


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## StarSong (Oct 3, 2020)

gennie said:


> I see this morning's events as the path to a resignation,  *the pardoning of the century* and a massive election mess.  May God (or whoever is in charge of that) have mercy on us all.


Only federal crimes can be pardoned by a president.


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## hellomimi (Oct 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> Recent studies show you can get Coronavirus just by thinking about it.


OTOH, you may be on to something based on the saying,

You find what you seek for. That's why we have to guard our thoughts. Don't allow covid19 free rent in your mind.


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## hellomimi (Oct 3, 2020)

StarSong said:


> People in any "first world" country (hate that term but will use it in this case) are *blessed by the accident of their birth*.Not just the US.
> 
> p.s.  To reframe one's thinking about poverty and "third world" living, I highly, highly recommend _Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About the World—and Why Things Are Better Than You Think, ⁰⁰⁰pp/I]by Hans Rosling.
> _


_I respect your opinion.

My belief on the bolded part is no one is blessed (or cursed) in situations they're born into. I believe in pre destiny, of which, we make our choices shepherded by our spirit guides. Since our memories of past lives are wiped out, we have no remembrance of what we agreed to, in our next incarnation. IOW, there are no accidents, events in our lives are meant to happen to teach us lessons. Just MY belief that we can agree to disagree._


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## StarSong (Oct 3, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> OTOH, you may be on to something based on the saying,
> 
> You find what you seek for. That's why we have to guard our thoughts. Don't allow covid19 free rent in your mind.


You're joking, right?


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## StarSong (Oct 3, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> Still is, and will be.
> *
> Those who have not lived/ experienced life in the third world do not realize how blessed they are to live in this country.*






hellomimi said:


> _I respect your opinion.
> 
> My belief on the bolded part is no one is blessed (or cursed) in situations they're born into. I believe in pre destiny, of which, we make our choices shepherded by our spirit guides. Since our memories of past lives are wiped out, we have no remembrance of what we agreed to, in our next incarnation. IOW, there are no accidents, events in our lives are meant to happen to teach us lessons. Just MY belief that we can agree to disagree._



I was responding to your words.  You described people who live in this country as being "blessed."  Your disagreement seems to be with your own previous post.


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## hellomimi (Oct 3, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I was responding to your words.  You described people who live in this country as being "blessed."  Your disagreement seems to be with your own previous post.


It was a wrong choice of words, if I think of the appropriate term to use, will do. Saying blessed in my current incarnation is part of my experiences in life. I am not an American by birth, but I bless this land for fulfilling (even surpassing) my dreams. I have learned my lessons in lack and plenty, which I now understand, is destined for me. 

Thank you for your time in responding to my post. It makes me ponder on it on a deeper level.


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## hellomimi (Oct 3, 2020)

StarSong said:


> You're joking, right?


No


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## OneEyedDiva (Oct 12, 2020)

Like @win231 I had not only read about this a couple of months before this post, I saw an animated example of how the virus could cross the aisles of (ie: a supermarket) if someone coughed or sneezed. That solidified my conviction to keep my mask on even if there seems to be no one else around.


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## Sunny (Oct 12, 2020)

For those who are still in denial, who believe in spirit guides, etc., here's another narrative by a person who did not think he was in any particular danger from this virus:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/10/10/coronavirus-denier-sick-spreader/?arc404=true

Voices from the Pandemic
*‘What are we so afraid of?’*
Tony Green, on dismissing, denying, contracting and spreading the coronavirus










By  Eli Saslow

October 10, 2020


 I used to call it the “scamdemic.” I thought it was an overblown media hoax. I made fun of people for wearing masks. I went all the way down the rabbit hole and fell hard on my own sword, so if you want to hate me or blame me, that’s fine. I’m doing plenty of that myself.

The party was my idea. That’s what I can’t get over. Well, I mean, it wasn’t even a party — more like a get-together. There were just six of us, okay? My parents, my partner, and my partner’s parents. We’d been locked down for months at that point in Texas, and the governor had just come out and said small gatherings were probably okay. We’re a close family, and we hadn’t been together in forever. It was finally summer. I thought the worst was behind us. I was like: “Hell, let’s get on with our lives. What are we so afraid of?”

Some people in my family didn’t necessarily share all of my views, but I pushed it. I’ve always been out front with my opinions. I’m gay and I’m conservative, so either way I’m used to going against the grain. I stopped trusting the media for my information when it went hard against Trump in 2016. I got rid of my cable. It’s all opinion anyway, so I’d rather come up with my own. I find a little bit of truth here and a little there, and I pile it together to see what it makes. I have about 4,000 people in my personal network, and not one of them had gotten sick. Not one. You start to hear jokes about, you know, a skydiver jumps out of a plane without a parachute and dies of covid-19. You start to think: “Something’s really fishy here.” You start dismissing and denying.

I told my family: “Come on. Enough already. Let’s get together and enjoy life for once.”

They all came for the weekend. We agreed not to do any of the distancing or worry much about it. I mean, I haven’t seen my mother in months, and I’m not supposed to go up and hug her? Come on. We have a two-story house, so there was room for us to all stay here together. We all came on our own free will. It felt like something we needed. It had been months of doing nothing, feeling nothing, seeing no one, worrying about finances with this whole shutdown. My partner had been sent home from his work. I’d been at the finish line of raising $3.5 million for a new project, and that all evaporated overnight. I’d been feeling depressed and angry, and then it was like: “Okay! I can breathe.” We cooked nice meals. We watched a few movies. I played a few songs on my baby grand piano. We drove to a lake about 60 miles outside of Dallas and talked and talked. It was nothing all that special. It was great. It was normal.

I woke up Sunday morning feeling a little iffy. I have a lot of issues with sleeping, and I thought that’s probably what it was. I let everyone know: “I don’t feel right, but I’m guessing it might be exhaustion.” I was kind of achy. There was a weird vibration inside. I had a bug-eye feeling.

A few hours later, my partner was feeling a little bad, too. Then my parents. Then my father-in-law got sick the next day, after he’d already left and gone to Austin to witness the birth of his first grandchild. I have no idea which one of us brought the virus into the house, but all six of us left with it. It kept spreading from there.






 Green and the five others who were at the get-together he hosted tested positive for the virus shortly thereafter. The 43-year-old says he feels extremely guilty about what happened. (Allison V. Smith for The Washington Post)

I told myself it wouldn’t be that bad. “It’s the flu. It’s basically just the flu.” I didn’t have the horrible cough you keep hearing about. My breathing never got too terrible. My fever peaked for like one day at 100.5, which is nothing — barely worth mentioning. “All right. I got this. See? It was nothing.” But then some of the other symptoms started to get wild. I was sweating profusely. I would wake up in a pool of sweat. I had this tingling feeling all over my body, this radiating kind of pain. Do you remember those old space heaters that you’d plug in, and the red lines would light up and glow? I felt like that was happening inside my bones. I was burning from the inside out. I was buzzing. I was dizzy. I couldn’t even turn my head around to look at the TV. I felt like my eyeballs were in a fishbowl, just bopping around. I rubbed Icy Hot all over my head. It was nonstop headaches and sweating for probably about a week — and then it just went away. I got some of my energy back. I had a few really good days. I started working on projects around the house. I was thinking: “Okay. That’s it. Pretty bad, but not so terrible. I beat it. I managed it. Nothing worth shutting down the entire world over.” Then one day I was walking up the stairs, and all of the sudden, I couldn’t breathe. I screamed and fell flat on my face. I blacked out. I woke up a while later in the ER, and 10 doctors were standing around me in a circle. I was lying on the table after going through a CT scan. The doctors told me the virus had attacked my nervous system. They’d given me some medications that stopped me from having a massive stroke. They said I was minutes away.

I stayed in the hospital for three days, trying to get my mind around it. It was guilt, embarrassment, shame. I thought: “Okay. Maybe now I’ve paid for my mistake.” But it kept getting worse.

Six infections turned into nine. Nine went up to 14. It spread from one family member to the next, and it was like each person caught a different strain. My mother-in-law got it and never had any real symptoms. My father is 78, and he went to get checked out at the hospital, but for whatever reasons, he seemed to recover really fast. My father-in-law nearly died in his living room and then ended up in the same hospital as me on the exact same day. His mother was in the room right next to him because she was having trouble breathing. They were lying there on both sides of the wall, fighting the same virus, and neither of them ever knew the other one was there. She died after a few weeks. On the day of her funeral, five more family members tested positive.

My father-in-law’s probably my best friend. It’s an unconventional relationship. He’s 52, only nine years older than me, and we hit it off right away. He runs a construction company, and I would tag along on his jobs and ride with him around Dallas. I’ve been through a lot in my life — from food stamps to Ferraris and then back again — so I could tell a good story and make him laugh. He builds these 20,000-square-foot custom homes, but he’d been renting his whole life. We decided to go in together on 10 acres outside Dallas, and he was finally getting ready to build his own house. We’d already done the plumbing and gotten streets built on the property. We’d planted 50 pecans and oaks to give the property some shade. He had his blueprints all drawn up. It was all he wanted to talk about.



He was on supplemental oxygen, but the doctors kept reducing the amount he was getting. They thought he was getting better. He was still making jokes, so I wasn’t all that worried. He told me: “They’ve got you upstairs in the Cadillac rooms because you’re White, but all of us Mexicans are still down here in the ER.” I got sent home, and I had a lot of guilt about leaving him there. I called him at the hospital, and I was like: “I’m going to come bust you out Mission Impossible style.” He said he preferred El Chapo style. We were laughing so hard. I hung up, and a few hours later I got a call from my mother-in-law. She was hysterical. She could barely speak. She said one of his lungs had collapsed and the other was filling with fluid. They put him on a ventilator, and he lay there on life support for six or seven weeks. There was never any goodbye. He was just gone. It’s like the world swallowed him up. We could only have 10 people at the funeral, and I didn’t make that list.

I break down sometimes, but mostly I’m empty. Am I glad to be alive? I don’t know. I don’t know how to answer that.

There’s no relief. This virus, I can’t escape it. It’s torn up our family. It’s all over my Facebook. It’s the election. It’s Trump. It’s what I keep thinking about. How many people would have gotten sick if I’d never hosted that weekend? One? Maybe two? The grief comes in waves, but that guilt just sits.

eli.saslow@washpost.com

*Read more Voices from the Pandemic*


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## IrisSenior (Oct 12, 2020)

This virus is here to stay forever...it will always mutate and crop up again and again.


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## Ellen Marie (Oct 12, 2020)

I haven't read all the posts, but I want to add something I learned about the airborne aspect of covid.   

Early in the year, I purchased an air purifier and it runs at my house 24/7.   "Supposedly"  it will take care of 99.97% of the matter in the air, though the filter tests show 99.99% effective. 

Anyway.   For those who cannot afford an air purifying system, I read that since the CDC  states that small spaces will become troublesome, and the potential for increased infections in closed area.  They recommend opening the windows to get air circulating.   Yeah, right, what world do you live in?

Further reading, I found something interesting and I wanted to share.   If you have a box fan, you can purchase a 20x20x1 HEPA filter  for that fan, and it will take care of most of the particles in your air.    A filter.... about $10.


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## gennie (Oct 13, 2020)

Horrible story.  Should be required reading for all adults.  

My state had another 2,700 new cases this AM report.


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## StarSong (Oct 13, 2020)

gennie said:


> Horrible story. Should be required reading for all adults.


I agree.  I was crying by the end of his story.


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## OneEyedDiva (Oct 13, 2020)

Everyone who has mocked the seriousness of this virus and using protective measures should read his story. My sister didn't understand why I didn't want to go to her house for the usual holiday dinner...I think it was Easter. I didn't cave...I stayed home. He'll always feel responsible and I'm sure the guilt is eating him up.


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## Sunny (Oct 13, 2020)

My family is trying to decide what to do about Thanksgiving dinner, which is always a big deal for us. We even consulted my doctor about it, who thinks the risk is minimal if we practice social distancing.


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## Tish (Oct 13, 2020)

The only thing I can say is that we need to be very careful in not becoming complacent about social distancing and good hygiene habits.


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## StarSong (Oct 14, 2020)

One of my sons was asking about TG and Christmas.  I didn't know what to tell him.  He and his wife work outside their home, ditto my other son and DIL.    

Our bubble with DD's family should be intact during those holidays so we'll be clear to spend them with her group. We're absolutely not favoring her - it's just that they're the only family where the adults work from home. Their kids (our only grands) have school online. 

At least partly because they want to continue to be able to see us, DD & SIL declined in writing to send them to in-person classes until at least January (their schools are reopening Nov 1st if virus numbers stay down).


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## win231 (Oct 14, 2020)

Sunny said:


> My family is trying to decide what to do about Thanksgiving dinner, which is always a big deal for us. We even consulted my doctor about it, who thinks the risk is minimal if we practice social distancing.


We are having two Thanksgivings with 6 people at each.  One with my sister, nephew, wife & 2 kids, ages 4 months & 2 years.  The second with me, my sister & 4 friends in their 80's (who we've been visiting every weekend since January).  Guess we've been "lucky."   The house is big enough so we don't have to sit close together.


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## Sunny (Oct 16, 2020)

Today, Dr. Fauci is recommending that families cancel TG and Xmas celebrations. That's pretty harsh, and I doubt that many people will comply. But I may have to make a last-minute decision as to whether to attend. (They are all coming to my son's house, and since they are all obviously much younger than I am, probably running minimal risk.)


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## StarSong (Oct 16, 2020)

We will have some sort of TG celebration with our daughter's family because we share a bubble with them.  

Will probably see our sons and DILs for a lawn visit in late November. Masked & socially distanced, of course. 

No idea how Christmas will work out. Still thinking about that one.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 16, 2020)

Its so sad the choices we are forced to make.


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## Rosemarie (Oct 16, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> _I respect your opinion.
> 
> My belief on the bolded part is no one is blessed (or cursed) in situations they're born into. I believe in pre destiny, of which, we make our choices shepherded by our spirit guides. Since our memories of past lives are wiped out, we have no remembrance of what we agreed to, in our next incarnation. IOW, there are no accidents, events in our lives are meant to happen to teach us lessons. Just MY belief that we can agree to disagree._


I agree with what you say. Each of us has a particular purpose in our lives. Sometimes, that purpose can only be achieved by living in the right environment. Some souls will have wanted to experience poverty and so chose to be born in a poor country.


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## Ellen Marie (Oct 16, 2020)

Our counts continue to climb.  Today is 300 more than our previous high, which was yesterday.  The sad part, I don't think we are at the second wave yet.  I feel this is still related to schools, particularly college kids... but it is spreading.   The hospitals here are filling up and the trend is, kindly called in the news, an uptick.   The facts are, more people being hospitalized, where the cases the previous few weeks were lighter cases.  Now, the age in this area for hospitalizations are 30-50.... and more people going on ventilators.  

I just stay home as much as possible.  I have to go out this afternoon.... a pick up at Home Depot, they can bring it out to my car, thank you.

Should we tip people who bring our groceries or products to our cars?  Or, is that a part of their services provided?   Asking for my 330,708,540 friends.


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## gennie (Oct 17, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> I agree with what you say. Each of us has a particular purpose in our lives. Sometimes, that purpose can only be achieved by living in the right environment. Some souls will have wanted to experience poverty and so chose to be born in a poor country.


@Rosemarie, I saw an interesting lecture about this theory on U Tube a few nights ago.  Are you a fan of Dolores Cannon?


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## Sunny (Oct 17, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> I agree with what you say. Each of us has a particular purpose in our lives. Sometimes, that purpose can only be achieved by living in the right environment. Some souls will have wanted to experience poverty and so chose to be born in a poor country.


Er, Rosemarie, you are joking, aren't you? Please tell me you are joking!


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## Sunny (Oct 17, 2020)

Starsong, one advantage of living in southern CA is that you can have "lawn visits" at the end of November. I doubt that that would work here!


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## Rosemarie (Oct 17, 2020)

gennie said:


> @Rosemarie, I saw an interesting lecture about this theory on U Tube a few nights ago.  Are you a fan of Dolores Cannon?


Yes, I have read several of her books. However, I must admit I am suspicious of her sources. Some of what she relates doesn't quite ring true. However, I was already convinced before I read her books.


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## gennie (Oct 17, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> Yes, I have read several of her books. However, I must admit I am suspicious of her sources. Some of what she relates doesn't quite ring true. However, I was already convinced before I read her books.


I hadn't heard of her before the program.  Some of it made a lot of sense but the presentation was so much self praise it detracted from the message.  I'll look for some books.  Thanks.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 17, 2020)

Tish said:


> The only thing I can say is that we need to be very careful in not becoming complacent about social distancing and good hygiene habits.



Here is one possible solution - bad hygiene may lead to natural social distancing.  If a person rarely showers, people will simply not want to be around him or her and 6 feet may not be enough, not to mention not wanting to be in the same room. 

Seriously though, you do have a point.  It seems that there are lulls locally in the discussion of COVID-19, and then I check the local news outlet online where the COVID-19 "score" (yes, like a sports game) is presented and the numbers are unsettling high for new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths for our state.

The discussion about what to do for the holidays would be quite perplexing for those who traditionally get together with family and friends.  My wife and I typically just stay home in the quiet.  However, I really don't know what other folks should do to make this season as memorable as past seasons.  I suppose zoom and similar sites will be overloaded as people try to connect virtually.

Tony


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## win231 (Oct 17, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Here is one possible solution - bad hygiene may lead to natural social distancing.  If a person rarely showers, people will simply not want to be around him or her and 6 feet may not be enough, not to mention not wanting to be in the same room.
> 
> Seriously though, you do have a point.  It seems that there are lulls locally in the discussion of COVID-19, and then I check the local news outlet online where the COVID-19 "score" (yes, like a sports game) is presented and the numbers are unsettling high for new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths for our state.
> 
> ...


That's my problem.  I smell so delightful, people are always grabbing, hugging & kissing me.  Especially women.
And my sparkling personality is also irresistible & only adds to the problem.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 17, 2020)

win231 said:


> That's my problem.  I smell so delightful, people are always grabbing, hugging & kissing me.  Especially women.
> And my sparkling personality is also irresistible & only adds to the problem.



So if we read in the news that there is a sudden spike in COVID-19 cases among women in your locality, we know who to blame (clue...it isn't Trump, but instead has a more Clintonesque flavor). 

Tony


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## win231 (Oct 17, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> So if we read in the news that there is a sudden spike in COVID-19 cases among women in your locality, we know who to blame (clue...it isn't Trump, but instead has a more Clintonesque flavor).
> 
> Tony


LOL.  Well, since I'm not sick, if cases spike in women, it ain't my fault.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 17, 2020)

win231 said:


> LOL.  Well, since I'm not sick, if cases spike in women, it ain't my fault.



Yep.  In a sense, that is what Clinton said too (I did not have sex with that woman). 

I am glad that you are not sick.  I have tested negative at the VA twice now over the span of 3 weeks or so, and I have not heard of any cases in our condo association either.

Tony


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## Rosemarie (Oct 18, 2020)

gennie said:


> I hadn't heard of her before the program.  Some of it made a lot of sense but the presentation was so much self praise it detracted from the message.  I'll look for some books.  Thanks.


Have you read 'Yesterdays Children' by Jenny Cockrell? It was made into a film, but is based on fact.


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## gennie (Oct 18, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> Have you read 'Yesterdays Children' by Jenny Cockrell? It was made into a film, but is based on fact.


Yes, years ago.  A compelling story. The subject has fascinated me for years.


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## Sunny (Oct 18, 2020)

I never heard of Jenny Cockell or this book, but I was interested enough to look her up. It reminded me (very much!) of a book and movie that were a big craze back in the 1950's.  It was called The Search For Bridey Murphy, and is supposedly a true account of an American woman who is put under hypnosis and starts describing in great detail the life of an Irishwoman in the early 19th century. The American woman had never been to Ireland. The details aout her life seemed to be amazingly accurate.

After careful examination and analysis, it all turned out to be a hoax. Kind of a disappointment. I would have loved it to be true!


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## Rosemarie (Oct 18, 2020)

Sunny said:


> I never heard of Jenny Cockell or this book, but I was interested enough to look her up. It reminded me (very much!) of a book and movie that were a big craze back in the 1950's.  It was called The Search For Bridey Murphy, and is supposedly a true account of an American woman who is put under hypnosis and starts describing in great detail the life of an Irishwoman in the early 19th century. The American woman had never been to Ireland. The details aout her life seemed to be amazingly accurate.
> 
> After careful examination and analysis, it all turned out to be a hoax. Kind of a disappointment. I would have loved it to be true!


There you are....I didn't know that it turned out to be a hoax. However, there are plenty of books on the subject of regression. Some are so vivid that I can't believe there is not some basis in fact.


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