# Life after death.... myth or fact



## Pete (Nov 25, 2018)

__​_
….the sound of a lone cough echoed off the marble floor and cement walls as the priest cast his penetrating gaze seemingly at me from the front of the church. I was 14 soon to go to high school and this would be my last school mass and sermon. He started off like he had a number of times over the years with the words, remember if you commit a sin you will burn in the fires of hell.

_

*Not a good way to start your school day but one familiar to some Catholic grade schools in the 50's where a mass and sermon on the benefits of being good and the consequences of being bad were normal fair. Now however 58 years later I am finding myself thinking more and more about the, hopefully metaphoric, fires of hell. I have for years wanted to write a posting about God, faith and death but have always held back because like politics it is a subject that can ignite strong emotions, today however I thought I would give it a shot.

*

*Stating the obvious the one thing everyone of us share whether we are black or white, Christian or Muslim, liberal or conservative, male or female is we will all die. The day you are borne you are sentenced to die with no hope for a stay of your death. Most do not think of it for decades until they start to age and realize their time is running out others fight their whole lives against that end by turning their lives into one long physical fitness marathon which of course always ends the same way.... death.

*

*Finally we have those who believe without a shred of doubt that their death is merely a doorway of sorts to their next stage.... life in heaven with God the Father. In between the two we have those who were raised in faith and know about life after death but do not live the life that merits it, and those who never heard about heaven and everlasting life and live their day to day existence exclusively for personal pleasure and gain.


*
*So who is right?*

*No answers
but my beliefs
in my next posting*​


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## Lord Elpus (Nov 25, 2018)

Well,last time I was dead, people kept asking me if I believed in life after death...but somehow, it seemed improbable.

Then,the discovery of Dark Energy and it's effects on building this universe came to the fore.

.....hmm......

Well,why not?  Thoughts are energy, energy changes it's properties but not it's existence. 
So-ok,that'll do for me.

I'm coming back as Darth Vader's big brother next time!


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## Sunny (Nov 25, 2018)

I don't believe there is really an answer to "Who is right?" on this.  We all subscribe to a mind set that supports our emotional and intellectual needs.

I am an atheist. I cannot imagine myself believing anything just because somebody told me it is true, without any proof or evidence whatever. If something is proven by the evidence of science, then I will "believe" it, although it's a different kind of belief. It's not faith that something is true, just because; it's the feeling that this is the most we can understand on the subject at this stage of human
development. As our understanding grows, our ideas may change. That is very different from absolute belief.

So my feeling about your question is: No, we have no evidence of life after death. I imagine it as being the same as "What was it like before you were born?"  The world existed, but not for us. It wasn't good, it wasn't bad, it just wasn't anything.  After death, the way we live on is in the thoughts and memories of others.  To me, that's just common sense.  Others see the universe differently.


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## Don M. (Nov 25, 2018)

I have a hard time believing that our "soul" just disappears when our time on this Earth ends.  I'm not very religious, but I Do believe that there is a Higher Power....far too complex for our little minds to comprehend...that guides the Universe.  I think our spirit lives on when the body collapses....and in many respects, I kind of look forward to the next cycle....and hope to come back as an astronaut....but not for a few more years.


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## Ken N Tx (Nov 25, 2018)

I will let you know at a later date...


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## Camper6 (Nov 25, 2018)

I just don't know and can't go by anything except science.

i just can't see how you can go any farther once your brain is dead.

We kill animals to eat. You just get recycled . Nothing ever disappears. It just changes form.


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 25, 2018)

Hi Pete, nice to see ya!

I don't believe in recycling souls or reincarnation, etc...

I believe that when you die you are dead.
_
"When you're hot, you're hot and when you're not, you're not ..." - _Jerry Reed

I also believe:

Thessalonians 4:16-18

16 For the Lord, himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead *in Christ *will rise first. 
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 
18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

For me the keywords are *in Christ,* ya gotta have faith and seek forgiveness in order to be ready when the big day comes.

There are other similar passages in the Bible.

We'll see!


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## C'est Moi (Nov 25, 2018)

I'm an agnostic; I don't believe there is life after death.   Sometimes I envy believers who have faith, but my attempts to join into organized religion left me with more questions than answers.  It seems to me that most religions are simply a way to control people by fear tactics.   I feel that when we die, our time is truly over and we will cease to exist.   Snuffed out like "a candle in the wind."


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## Sassycakes (Nov 25, 2018)

IMO I truly believe there is life after death, but it is just my opinion because of things I have experienced in my life.


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## Furryanimal (Nov 25, 2018)

As an atheist I have no idea if there is 'life after death' and I am in no hurry to find out but this site that I mentioned on another thread is good
http://www.afterlife101.com/


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## Keesha (Nov 25, 2018)

I believe without a shadow of doubt that my death is merely a doorway to the next stage in life. 
All my experiences with death ( however you wish to define it) proved it to me but I certainly don’t wish to convince anyone otherwise. It’s our own individual journey.
I don’t belong to any organized religion since it clashes with my personal experiences


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## jujube (Nov 25, 2018)

Of course, I love the idea of heaven and hate the idea of hell, but I'd be content with....nothing....poof! the candle is out.


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## Falcon (Nov 25, 2018)

These two words have opposite  meanings.  Life  &  death.

In case you didn't  know;  In  LIFE  there is  movement  of a sort,  and thinking  etc.

In  death,  you're  simply  lying there  in the  coffin  waiting to be  buried  or cremated.

Then  for the living,  life goes on and pretty soon  (Except  for  loved  ones.)  you  are  soon  forgotten  and the rest  of the world
carries  on.  SO,  for you;  FOGEDDABOUTIT  &  get on  with your life and think about  more  pleasant  things.


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## Mike (Nov 25, 2018)

I read an article in a newspaper about young children
who see, speak to and play with ghosts!

Does that count?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...hildren-invisible-friends-really-existed.html

Mike.


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## Sunny (Nov 25, 2018)

No, it doesn't count. Some kids just have a vivid imagination. (And maybe, gullible parents?)


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## Tommy (Nov 25, 2018)

I am a Christian and I absolutely believe in eternal life.  My belief is based on faith.  I would never try to "sell" somebody on my beliefs, but I gladly share them with others who are interested in knowing.


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## Olivia (Nov 25, 2018)

It's myth until it's fact, and only you yourself are going to know that. Otherwise it's faith. Either way, I don't think we're going to be disappointed. How could we be? Answer that one. I can't really worry about it, except to make a conscious decision about it, and then live the way I decide is the most positive possible for one's self. 

And how much proof is there really that the world existed before your birth?


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## Manatee (Nov 25, 2018)

Everyone I have known who has died has stayed dead, or else they have snuck off somewhere that I don't know about.


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## Knight (Nov 25, 2018)

I think it's a matter of what makes people comfortable. If you believe there is then for you there is. When someone that has been dead for a year and can prove beyond any doubt  they lived before, that would convince me. Until then dead is dead.


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## Olivia (Nov 25, 2018)

People say that a lot that belief in life after death is to make people feel comfortable. How?


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## terry123 (Nov 25, 2018)

As I have said before, I am a spiritual being having a human experience. The body is a shell that dies but the soul lives on. I am looking forward to greeting my loved ones that have gone before me. I am not worried about dying as I have came close a few times and I am not afraid or scared when it is my time.  Just my personal belief.


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## Sunny (Nov 25, 2018)

Olivia, I think it's because it is definitely comforting to think that we will once again see our loved ones who have passed on. It's much more comforting than the cold understanding that this is all there
is, and when it's over, it's over.

Obviously, I don't believe that the fact that something is comforting makes it true.


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## Gary O' (Nov 25, 2018)

*Life after death.... myth or fact

*great read, Pete, always

and good to see you back here

I penned some thoughts awhile back, in somewhat that regard

and

if anyone reading this suffers from insomnia, well, this may be a cure;


Y’ever try to think back to the beginning of things?
I’ve often tried.
A brain teaser is trying to fathom no beginning of time, or no end to what we know as the universe.
Try as I might, I just get blindly frustrated, and my mind finally goes AAAAARGH…SUH-NAP!
Then I resign myself to the fact that we are just ants, and ants have no idea why they are packing their dead neighbor Fred on their back,
 but for the simple reason ‘Fred will make great insulation in my bottom floor condo’.
So as I am stuffing Fred into the corner of my ceiling, joining other deceased neighbors and bits of human bellybutton lint, 
I accidently pierce my exoskeleton on a needle I’d packed in from the giant human house w-a-a-a-a-y across the yard, and I begin to seep.
Next day I can’t get up. 
Friends gather.
So called friends begin picking at me, and soon I become condo insulation of which my place, which I’d worked so hard on, becomes Fred’s son’s abode.


But I’m not talkin’ about the beginning of time. 
Just trying to think back on when I formed my first conscience thoughts.

Where was I…oh, yeah, conscious beginnings.
OK, I got nuthin’.

Maybe it was that first time I discovered playing in the dirt was not so much fun when packin’ a load,
 or that time I found out finger nail files and electrical outlets were not really made for each other.
Just can’t nail it down.

However, I have some vivid recollection as to the awakening of Larry.
Mr Winky, as Mom referred to him, became ‘Larry’ sometime in my early childhood. 
It could have been that time we were changing at the city pool, when my cousin Johnny and I watched our penises talk to each other.
(shake shake), ‘Hey there (shake shake) got a match?’
‘Hahahahahaha’
(shake shake),’Hey baby, (shake shake) I’ll light yer fire.’
‘Hahahahahaha’

Or the boy’s room sword fights of 4th grade.

But around the fall of ’62 he became Lawrence of Arabia.

Wait a minute. 
I’m getting ahead of myself.

The very beginning, before Larry could do more than hang his pathetic little fireman’s hat over the cold porcelain rim,
 resting comfortably on his previous pee stain and adult pubic hair leavings, there were a few events that lead to Larry’s awakening.

I recall getting lost under Aunt Helen’s dress. 
There was a party.
I was toddling around, mingling with people’s knees, when whoosh, there I was, in a calico tent, looking up. 
Garters, snaps, thighs and other mysterious soft forms. 
After Aunt Helen’s drink rattling shriek, I recall getting whisked up by Dad, and the brisk paced head bobbin’ scenery shakin’ trip to the play pen in the bedroom.
The whole scene was quite unnerving…..and intriguing.

Then that brief moment I’d wandered into my parent’s bedroom….and the stark lesson that all women would shriek at the drop of a hat….or garment.

Then the Jackie Gleason Show dancers.

Then Bessie Dodge.

Then me and Connie Ekbert in grampa’s tool shed.
The brilliant idea of touching butts together seemed mutual.
Not sure where things woulda gone from there, ‘cause while our hind ends were curiously attached, we heard grampa’s footsteps and got the hell outta there.

Yeah, it coulda been any or all of those events. 

 But my crotch began to take over every waking moment I had at about the same time the Miss Dickerson fantasies gave way to Sophia Loren, 
and my dad’s Police Gazette stash took the place of the Wards catalogue.

Oh those dames in those magazines.
They were in trouble.
They were trouble.
Black rectangle bars covering their eyes, their obviously troubled sultry eyes.

And thank gawd. I’d hate to think they could see me starin’ at their boobs so long.

Greta, on page 27 of issue 351 was my main squeeze.
The barroom was dimly lit. Causing the shadows to plunge deep into her heaving cleavage.
She wanted outta there.
But couldn’t. 
Those goddamn eye bars.
So there she was, undulating.
Bosoms poppin’ outta her blouse like two loaves of rising yeast bread.
 ‘I’m in trouble Gary.’
‘Take me away, you hot young boyman.’
‘Just take me, right here on the bar.’
‘Oh yes. YES. OH YES!’
‘Wait, don’t take me just yet, I heard the front door, your mom is home!’

’What?’

I nestle issue 351 back into my dad’s sock drawer, under his argyle dress socks, between aging issue 117 and the fresh 478 that contained the saga of WWII Pacific Island prison sluts. 

‘Hey Mom. What’s for dinner?’

But wait. 
I’m getting ahead of myself again.

_*End of excerpt (due to extremely graphic prose) *_

Anyway, my thoughts drifted around, considering wizened barroom utterings, but too busy enjoying myself to get serious with, well anything

Until

The birth of my firstborn

A tiny being…..in my care

Not terribly long after, I got serious
Talked to serious people
Some mystics 
Some atheists

Some agnostics (I put myself there. Seemed comfortably numb)

Some Christians

Christianity became a feel good story for me, one to keep folks from killing each other

Until

I came in contact with a much learned studier of the Bible
He had the ability to reason
And the patience to put up with my snide remarks
We eventually got into the prophesies, mainly Daniel and The Revelation
There, it was plainly laid out for me

This…was meat for me

Something tangible

Irrefutable completion of prophecies, the foretelling of events coming to fruition centuries after 

Huh 

God _*is*_ real

There _*is *_life after death

And, if I don’t change my ways, I won’t be part of it

Not because He hates me

But, because I won’t be happy in that world

And here I am
In limbo
Choices
Decisions
Put off

He is, however, working on this ol’ fool

…and it breaks my heart


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## Olivia (Nov 25, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Olivia, I think it's because it is definitely comforting to think that we will once again see our loved ones who have passed on. It's much more comforting than the cold understanding that this is all there
> is, and when it's over, it's over.
> 
> Obviously, I don't believe that the fact that something is comforting makes it true.



C.S. Lewis is a well-known Christian Apologist. After his wife died  he wrote "A Grief Observed" where he describes how even with believe in life after death and that his wife still does exist, he questions how is that comforting? He wants his wife the way she was and how he knows her, not the way she is now and how it might be. And he even goes to question does she actually really exist. And he questions God and his faith. Eventually, he comes to terms with his loss and comes to feel her there with him at times. You could say they live on in our hearts, and what is wrong with that? 

The thing is that there's that really unthinking opinion that life after death can only be great so therefore, comforting. That's really not thinking much. If there is life after death, why assume that it's only going to be terrific? Life after death can mean a lot of things. You could be reborn in hell on earth., You could be born terribly disabled or rejected or subject to starvation and and cruelty in this life the way it is for so many people on earth now. 

For those who want to be back with their passed loved ones who were really good and religious, and you are not, then why do you think you'll be with them. I read a book about such a daughter who had a religious mother that passed away, and she turned a leaf so that she could be with her mother again after she passed away. That's not comfort, that being scared to death enough to want to change for her mother, not because that was her real belief. 

And then there are those stories about people who supposedly died and found themselves in a hellish situation. 

What really bothers me is when someone says that they don't believe in life after death because a dead person didn't get up and walk around. I've heard that argument many times. It doesn't even make sense and is really just making fun of people.

For myself, I think it's possible, but I don't know. And I think it's even safer to just stop existing. And how boring is existing for eternity anyway?


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## terry123 (Nov 25, 2018)

My daddy was not a church going man but he was a man of faith and once said that there  were no atheists in fox holes.  He said it was crazy how professed atheists he served with started asking God to help them when he was in a fox hole with them.  I still remember waking up hearing him fight battles in the war. As a child I did not understand as back then PTSD was not a name we knew.  My mother would be terrified sleeping with him.  He would not talk about the war but as we looked at his pictures sometimes he would tell a funny story about some of the men but never anything else.


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## beneDictus (Nov 26, 2018)

Well, i have always had the notion that there has to be some purpose for everyone`s earthly existence, otherwise, what would be the point of it all. If the whole idea is to acquire a heightened level of spiritual wisdom, then, it has to be an on-going process..Just one life span is probably hardly long enough to attain the highest level. And to deny that there is a continuing thread, (of life...after a physical death), is to deny that there is such a thing as a soul. So, i`ll toss my cap in with the life after death camp.


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## beneDictus (Nov 26, 2018)

Manatee said:


> Everyone I have known who has died has stayed dead, or else they have snuck off somewhere that I don't know about.


Think positive....!! They have probably just snuck off somewhere which you don`t know about. Only their souls, mind you...Not their bodies...!!


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## terry123 (Nov 26, 2018)

Tommy said:


> I am a Christian and I absolutely believe in eternal life.  My belief is based on faith.  I would never try to "sell" somebody on my beliefs, but I gladly share them with others who are interested in knowing.


Agree with you.


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## rgp (Nov 26, 2018)

terry123 said:


> My daddy was not a church going man but he was a man of faith and once said that there  were no atheists in fox holes.  He said it was crazy how professed atheists he served with started asking God to help them when he was in a fox hole with them.  I still remember waking up hearing him fight battles in the war. As a child I did not understand as back then PTSD was not a name we knew.  My mother would be terrified sleeping with him.  He would not talk about the war but as we looked at his pictures sometimes he would tell a funny story about some of the men but never anything else.



Not arguing , just sharing......

 My dad was just the opposite, he too was in WWII & Korea. But was a sound atheist and when ever someone made the atheist-foxhole statement....he always said Bull**it !

Don't know who's right,.....don't care.


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## treeguy64 (Nov 26, 2018)

We'll all find out, sooner or later.


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## Camper6 (Nov 26, 2018)

treeguy64 said:


> We'll all find out, sooner or later.



No I don't believe that we will find out

If you die you are no longer alive but you still hang around as a dead body until you decompose into another form.
It's kind of crazy.  

Billions of people have lived before and died and there isn't a trace of them left.  Floating around as dust I guess.

The person that influenced my thinking the most was one of my bosses.

It stuck in my mind and it's always there.

"There's nothing".


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## Knight (Nov 26, 2018)

Olivia said:


> People say that a lot that belief in life after death is to make people feel comfortable. How?


 .


I think comfort comes in the form of having blind faith that there is a God & heaven.  But I believe that is based on fear. I'd be willing to bet if they were asked to deny that blind faith they would be uncomfortable because they believe that a 3 &1/2 billion year old being is listening. 


Religion is not something that has no right or wrong answer. I think whatever gets you thru the day with peace of mind is a right each individual has.


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## Olivia (Nov 26, 2018)

Knight said:


> .
> 
> 
> I think comfort comes in the form of having blind faith that there is a God & heaven.  But I believe that is based on fear. I'd be willing to bet if they were asked to deny that blind faith they would be uncomfortable because they believe that a 3 &1/2 billion year old being is listening.
> ...



Well, there you go. You have your own beliefs.


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## terry123 (Nov 26, 2018)

rgp said:


> Not arguing , just sharing......
> 
> My dad was just the opposite, he too was in WWII & Korea. But was a sound atheist and when ever someone made the atheist-foxhole statement....he always said Bull**it !
> 
> Don't know who's right,.....don't care.


 There is no right or wrong, its an individual process. I don't question anyone else's beliefs.  I know for me I have a soul and that it lives after the body is gone.  You believe what you want. And my daddy's experience has nothing to do with yours.  It was his. He lived it and your dad lived his.


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## chic (Nov 26, 2018)

This whole subject makes me unhappy. I've been afraid of death ever since I was old enough to learn I was going to die. What kind of omniscient being does this to his "children" or underlings"? Heck. I treat animals better than that and always have. I find no comfort in the interpretations offered by organized religion. So mostly I try to live, not think about death, and treat everyone and everything as kindly as I can.  That's all. I'm not the preachy type despite being raised in the Catholic church.


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## Knight (Nov 26, 2018)

Olivia said:


> Well, there you go. You have your own beliefs.


True but not blind faith. 

My belief in death is death there is no more once life/being has ended stems from knowing there was a prehistoric age with tons of evolution taking place over millions of years.


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## rgp (Nov 26, 2018)

terry123 said:


> There is no right or wrong, its an individual process. I don't question anyone else's beliefs.  I know for me I have a soul and that it lives after the body is gone.  You believe what you want. And my daddy's experience has nothing to do with yours.  It was his. He lived it and your dad lived his.




 I never said my dad's experience had anything to do with your dad's. I was just sharing his , like you shared that of your father's. And I will believe what I want, and I believe there is nothing after physical life.


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## Olivia (Nov 26, 2018)

_






 Originally Posted by *Olivia* 


Well, there you go. You have your own beliefs.

_



> *Knight
> *
> True but not blind faith.
> 
> My belief in death is death there is no more once life/being has ended stems from knowing there was a prehistoric age with tons of evolution taking place over millions of years.



I wasn't questioning your beliefs about death. I was questioning your belief that you know why people believe as they do.


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## senile1 (Nov 26, 2018)

I've always believed life is the classroom for the soul, we are born seeking a lesson, when we have achieved this goal, we move on(via death)to our next lesson(life). We will continue upon this path until the ultimate goal has been achieved, the meaning of life, then we become one with the almighty.]
My belief, as all others, is purely theoretical (of course) , but I also believe, in life lies many many paths, one no more/ less legit than another; find your path and be true to it.


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## Linda (Nov 26, 2018)

I believe in Life After Life.  A place we go to wait till we decide to be reborn again.  I believe I have communicated with loved ones there.  I also believe at some point people are not reborn again and just go to somewhere beautiful and full of love.  I don't know what exactly goes on there.


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## grahamg (Nov 26, 2018)

chic said:


> This whole subject makes me unhappy. I've been afraid of death ever since I was old enough to learn I was going to die. What kind of omniscient being does this to his "children" or underlings"? Heck. I treat animals better than that and always have. I find no comfort in the interpretations offered by organized religion. So mostly I try to live, not think about death, and treat everyone and everything as kindly as I can.  That's all. I'm not the preachy type despite being raised in the Catholic church.



I liked your comments, and hope I'm not being too sarcastic by saying "I don't suppose dying makes too many people happy".

However, my grandfather used to say "there are worse things than dying" (meaning perhaps the awful lives some people live, though I'm not entirely sure what he meant?).

In my view, terrible as it is to contemplate death, "biology" makes it inevitable. Going along with it the process of growing old and if you're lucky watching children/grandchildren coming into the world refreshing it is a positive thing isn't it, but also essential as we old wise owls pass on our knowledge and experiences.

Thinking about my parents brings them to life to me, and the words of my first head teacher stick in my mind too, that "everything you do or say in your life reverberates across the world like a pebble thrown in a pool", and I've a strange feeling that is a kind of eternal life.


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## NewRetire18 (Nov 27, 2018)

All my life, I thought "OK, if there is life after death, and we turn into energy, then *why didn't anyone who died try to contact the living with all that energy*????".
So, of course, I thought, "there can not be life after death because of that', and I became an atheist.
Then one day, I realized that I have moved many times in my life, from state to state, and as long as I was quiet, there was no problem. But the moment I opened my mouth, there was the IRS, with a bill.
Now I am starting to realize something....


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## Sunny (Nov 27, 2018)

> And to deny that there is a continuing thread, (of life...after a  physical death), is to deny that there is such a thing as a soul. So,  i`ll toss my cap in with the life after death camp.



Well, I do deny that there is such a thing as a "soul."  What proof is there that such a thing exists?  Just the fact that something was invented centuries ago, and has been used to scare people into compliance does not
mean it is true.  As I've said before, if something has no proof other than the fact that people keep repeating it, I can't believe in it.

The term "continuing thread of life" is an interesting one. Now, that might have some truth to it. If our bodies eventually disintegrate into atoms which then become other forms of life (a plant, maybe?) then you could say that
there is "life after death," and we are continuing, although in a drastically different form.


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## Ronni (Nov 27, 2018)

I am not a religious person, but I am a spiritual one.  And I think the question of life after death is about way more than one's religion or lack of, or their belief in a God or Higher Power.  

I don't believe that I am simply, or only, my body.  I believe that my body is a vessel, a convenience that makes it possible for you to recognize me.... "me" being the energy that powers this body I occupy. Because the body is comprised of matter, it will follow the course that all matter does...it will begin, survive for a while, begin to decay and then ultimately die.  That is the cycle of all matter whether it's a human body or a piece of wood or a plant or anything else.  The body will ultimately fail and die, but the energy that powers it doesn't.   

I will continue to exist after my body ceases to live.


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## BlueDragonfly (Nov 27, 2018)

I believe in death of the body, not the soul. The soul continues on; either in Heaven or Hell. :angel:


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## grahamg (Nov 27, 2018)

Sunny said:


> A.N.Other forum member wrote:
> "And to deny that there is a continuing thread, (of life...after a  physical death), is to deny that there is such a thing as a soul. So,  i`ll toss my cap in with the life after death camp."
> 
> Sunny wrote:
> ...



Would you be happy if I could suggest words for whatever myself and others might think of as our "souls"?

What if I were to say you have something "unique" about yourself, akin to what others might consider their souls? Maybe you have done many good things in your life, and are justly pleased or proud of that fact, and this maybe equates to whatever it is I feel about wanting to be good, for the good of myself, my soul, and the good of everyone else perhaps(?).

It may be a very wishy washy kind of ideas or concepts I'm trying to promote, but we are all emotional beings aren't we, so I could question what part such essentially irrational thoughts as emotions if the only thing you can believe in are proven facts?


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## Grampa Don (Nov 27, 2018)

Do you really want to exist forever?  What kind of existence could be meaningful without end?  Even the universe will someday turn to cold empty space.

Personally, I feel like extinction is OK.  I've had my share of earthly experience and pleasures.  There may be no heaven, but that would mean there is also no hell.  I'm good with that.

In the end, it doesn't matter what you believe.  Whatever is is.  If something of me survives death, fine.  If not, so be it for all of us.

Don


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## Manatee (Nov 27, 2018)

Old fishermen never die, they just smell that way.


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## Keesha (Nov 27, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Well, I do deny that there is such a thing as a "soul."  What proof is there that such a thing exists?  Just the fact that something was invented centuries ago, and has been used to scare people into compliance does not
> mean it is true.


Souls aren’t invented! They are an integral part of who we are and aren’t something that seen and observed , but rather  something that’s ‘felt’ and observed. Stating that a soul is something merely created by religion is false. 
Man has known he has a soul since the before the beginning  of recorded history.


----------



## rgp (Nov 27, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Souls aren’t invented! They are an integral part of who we are and aren’t something that seen and observed , but rather  something that’s ‘felt’ and observed. Stating that a soul is something merely created by religion is false.
> Man has known he has a soul since the before the beginning  of recorded history.



 The last sentence you proclaim as though it is fact. Where's the poof of that fact?

  It's all belief, and of course that's great.....But why do folks insist on passing off their belief, as fact.


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## Sunny (Nov 27, 2018)

"Man has known he has a soul since before the beginning of recorded history?"  Where did that idea even come from, Keesha?  Of course "souls" were invented by the human mind. And quite a bit later than the beginning
of recorded history.

Did the cave men struggling to survive within incredible hardships have the time or inclination to bother rhapsodizing about "souls?"  I don't think so.


----------



## Olivia (Nov 27, 2018)

All I can say is that if you're satisfied with what you believe or don't believe, then you wouldn't need to argue. The "believers" here are just stating their beliefs. The ones who don't believe seem to have some kind of problem and want to convince others. I don't see that with the believers of soul and an afterlife.


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 27, 2018)

Olivia said:


> All I can say is that if you're satisfied with what you believe or don't believe, then you wouldn't need to argue. The "believers" here are just stating their beliefs. The ones who don't believe seem to have some of problem and want to convince others. I don't see that with the believers of soul and an afterlife.



I agree, great observation.


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## Grampa Don (Nov 27, 2018)

There was a time when a lot of people thought even inanimate objects; rocks, trees, mountains, streams had souls.  Some still do.  Does a chimpanzee have a soul?  They share most of our DNA.  By definition, a soul is immaterial, making proof impossible.  But, the fact that they can't be proven, doesn't prove that they don't exist either.  I'd say, believe whatever makes you feel good as long as you respect the beliefs of others.

Don


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## rgp (Nov 27, 2018)

Grampa Don said:


> There was a time when a lot of people thought even inanimate objects; rocks, trees, mountains, streams had souls.  Some still do.  Does a chimpanzee have a soul?  They share most of our DNA.  By definition, a soul is immaterial, making proof impossible.  But, the fact that they can't be proven, doesn't prove that they don't exist either.  I'd say, believe whatever makes you feel good as long as you respect the beliefs of others.
> 
> 
> 
> Don




   I agree but, I am still puzzled by those that BELIEVE, but proclaim their belief as fact......with of course no proof.


----------



## Olivia (Nov 27, 2018)

rgp said:


> I agree but, I am still puzzled by those that BELIEVE, but proclaim their belief as fact......with of course no proof.



Why does anyone have to prove anything to anyone? And that wasn't the question that started this thread. It was do you agree with life after death or not?  It didn't say anything about why and/or prove it.

But I do agree that the "Who is right" question was going to be a disaster to begin with. That was really wrong to start that way. And was only going to turn into a debate.


----------



## C'est Moi (Nov 27, 2018)

What's wrong with debate?   Does every thread here have to be cartoons?   If you don't like the thread, don't open it.


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## Olivia (Nov 27, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> What's wrong with debate?   Does every thread here have to be cartoons?   If you don't like the thread, don't open it.



Yes, of course.


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## rgp (Nov 27, 2018)

Olivia said:


> Why does anyone have to prove anything to anyone? And that wasn't the question that started this thread. It was do you agree with life after death or not?  It didn't say anything about why and/or prove it.
> 
> But I do agree that the "Who is right" question was going to be a disaster to begin with. That was really wrong to start that way. And was only going to turn into a debate.





  Well actually the thread title is......."*Life after death.... myth or fact"......which IMO implies the need for some sort of proof, if life after death is not considered myth.*


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## rgp (Nov 27, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> What's wrong with debate?   Does every thread here have to be cartoons?   If you don't like the thread, don't open it.




 I agree here.


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## C'est Moi (Nov 27, 2018)

Olivia said:


> Yes, of course.



Sorry, Olivia.   I have a headache and I'm in a pissy mood.


----------



## Olivia (Nov 27, 2018)

I get it, C'est Moi. Don't worry about it, and I hope you get rid of that lousy headache soon. I do like to get into it sometimes, which then I  later think, not a great idea.


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 27, 2018)

I think that debating a topic is different than challenging a person's beliefs, especially when the topic has no verifiable answer.

As an example the concept of the continuing thread of life.  I believe in that idea but for me, it refers to a person's children being the continuing thread of life and not the continuation of a person's individual soul.  You can agree, have a different view or dismiss the idea altogether without challenging my opinion.


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## fuzzybuddy (Nov 27, 2018)

I don't believe in God, so an afterlife isn't in the picture. Since we don't get a second chance, we have to cherish what we have here, now. And that's a hard thing to do.


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## Camper6 (Nov 27, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I think that debating a topic is different than challenging a person's beliefs, especially when the topic has no verifiable answer.
> 
> As an example the concept of the continuing thread of life.  I believe in that idea but for me, it refers to a person's children being the continuing thread of life and not the continuation of a person's individual soul.  You can agree, have a different view or dismiss the idea altogether without challenging my opinion.



Im with you. You definitely have part of you living on in your children. DNA lives on.


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## Lord Elpus (Nov 27, 2018)

To me we occupy the body for this particular trip-the body isn't actually us.
Thoughts are energy-energy is eternal.
I'm not saying we come back as us again, or that we even come back to this particular plane of existence.
A raindrop is a singular being. Alone,on a one-way trip. Then SPLAT-it's over.
BUT-the raindrop evaporates,is absorbed into the atmosphere-and in time,reforms & does that trip again.
NOT necessarily in the same place-maybe even this time into an ocean-but yet again, the process will re-occur.
Put the human consciousness into the place of that raindrop.
Instead of suddenly going splat, just run out of 'oof'.
The body goes into the ground-the driving energy/spirit/force [delete as required] goes back into the universal one-ness.
Repeat.
Yeah-that'll do. I reckon a lifetime as a 'me' is enough for ANYONE.


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## Grampa Don (Nov 27, 2018)

Lord Elpus --  Your post reminds me of Alan Watts and his belief in Pandeism.  Have you read him?

Don


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## Lord Elpus (Nov 27, 2018)

Yes-as it happens I have.
But no-I don't contribute to his theorem,sir.
I have my own theory of 'eternal life' being merely an energy-mass,rather akin to a 'black hole',at the centre of the universe.
We know it exists, we know it affects EVERYTHING,we know it's actually affecting us RIGHT NOW,as we speak...
...but nobody can explain it, how it works, what it actually consists of, etc.
I just don't CARE that I'm not immortal,Don. 
I truly reckon a century of this sh1t is enough.
Adam lived [apparently] to be 930....and look how HIS stay here turned out!
Cain & Abel...ohhh,yes-a real success story, that one.
Seth,their third son....ever heard of him?
Jael,Cain & Abel's sister...not exactly in the limelight,don't'cha think?

PLUS,Eve apparently had 20 [TWENTY!!!] sets of twins!
Stone the crows-after set three,I'm surprised she didn't NAIL her knickers on!!!

No,Don - in all truth, my outlook on it is that energy changes it's properties,but can't be eradicated.
Ergo,synaptic energy merely floats back into the Big Beyond,there to await events.

...I know - not the usual way of looking at things. My apologies if I've inadvertently offended you,Don.


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## Grampa Don (Nov 27, 2018)

You certainly didn't offend me.  I don't subscribe to Watt's ideas either, but they are interesting to consider.

Don


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## Butterfly (Nov 28, 2018)

The definitive answer to the OP's question cannot be ascertained, as there is no verifiable proof either way.  It is a matter of faith and belief.  I'm a Lutheran, and I believe in life after death.  Can I prove it, no.  But no one can scientifically prove the opposite, either.


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## chic (Nov 28, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> Sorry, Olivia.   I have a headache and I'm in a pissy mood.



Feel better.


----------



## Sunny (Nov 28, 2018)

> I believe in life after death.  Can I prove it, no.  But no one can scientifically prove the opposite, either.



That's probably true. But then, how can anybody "prove" that something _doesn't _exist?  Let's say I am sure there is a six-headed purple people eater roaming around somewhere in the Himalayas. Can anyone prove that
it doesn't exist?  The burden of proof is on the person who says it does.

Chic, lovely picture. Is it Monet?


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## Grampa Don (Nov 28, 2018)

The only reason to prove something is to convince someone else that it is true.  If I believe that God is a chicken and I don't care what you think, I don't have to prove it.  You are free to believe whatever you want, even purple people eaters.

Don


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## grahamg (Nov 28, 2018)

Sunny said:


> "Man has known he has a soul since before the beginning of recorded history?"  Where did that idea even come from, Keesha?  Of course "souls" were invented by the human mind. And quite a bit later than the beginning
> of recorded history.
> 
> Did the cave men struggling to survive within incredible hardships have the time or inclination to bother rhapsodizing about "souls?"  I don't think so.



Now as a bit of a "caveman" myself (or "den" man really, someone who used to build shelters in hidden places to hide away in), I may have the inside track on whatever a caveman might have thought.

It would be hard to argue, from the archaeological record alone, that cavemen and cavewomen were not interested in the afterlife. I doubt they dragged those massive trilithons miles and miles across Salisbury plain without a huge desire to connect themselves with something they believed in, and an incredible level of control and inspiration driving them all on.


----------



## toffee (Nov 28, 2018)

yes  there is life after death - we was all born/ or reincarnated /who's to say ?
our souls never die' and leaves our body time of death ' when our time is up its a nxt adventure -we meet our boss ' we convalesce'
then guided by heavens angels …….to our nxt level of the universe . never shut your mind down to dying -


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## C'est Moi (Nov 28, 2018)

grahamg said:


> Now as a bit of a "caveman" myself (or "den" man really, someone who used to build shelters in hidden places to hide away in), I may have the inside track on whatever a caveman might have thought.
> 
> It would be hard to argue, from the archaeological record alone, that cavemen and cavewomen were not interested in the afterlife. I doubt they dragged those massive trilithons miles and miles across Salisbury plain without a huge desire to connect themselves with something they believed in, and an incredible level of control and inspiration driving them all on.



How absurd to compare yourself with a caveman, sitting there typing away on your computer.      I'd imagine that cavemen were more concerned with day-to-day survival and gave little thought to the hearafter.


----------



## C'est Moi (Nov 28, 2018)

Grampa Don said:


> The only reason to prove something is to convince someone else that it is true.  If I believe that God is a chicken and I don't care what you think, I don't have to prove it.  You are free to believe whatever you want, even purple people eaters.
> 
> Don


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## grahamg (Nov 29, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> How absurd to compare yourself with a caveman, sitting there typing away on your computer.      I'd imagine that cavemen were more concerned with day-to-day survival and gave little thought to the hearafter.



You obviously don't know me very well   .

However, as you say archaelogists still struggle to agree what ancient people may have thought.


What would you say those "cavemen" or at least ancient people from pre-history dragged those massive stones so far in order to achieve by the way?


----------



## Butterfly (Nov 29, 2018)

Sunny said:


> That's probably true. But then, how can anybody "prove" that something _doesn't _exist?  Let's say I am sure there is a six-headed purple people eater roaming around somewhere in the Himalayas. Can anyone prove that
> it doesn't exist?  The burden of proof is on the person who says it does.
> 
> Chic, lovely picture. Is it Monet?



I said I cannot prove it --it is my belief -- one does not have to prove a "belief."  It is my belief, and I do not have to defend it.  I haven't read anywhere that we are required to believe only things that are demonstrably true.  I do not think that it can be demonstrably proved that God does not exist, either --it's a belief, and we all have a right to believe what we personally believe, whether others agree or not.  I do not feel called upon to question your beliefs nor to attempt to convince you of the contrary.  I simply stated my belief.


----------



## Lara (Nov 29, 2018)

Tommy said:


> I am a Christian and I absolutely believe in eternal life.  My belief is based on faith.  I would never try to "sell" somebody on my beliefs, but I gladly share them with others who are interested in knowing.


Me too.


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## chic (Nov 30, 2018)

Sunny said:


> That's probably true. But then, how can anybody "prove" that something _doesn't _exist?  Let's say I am sure there is a six-headed purple people eater roaming around somewhere in the Himalayas. Can anyone prove that
> it doesn't exist?  The burden of proof is on the person who says it does.
> 
> Chic, lovely picture. Is it Monet?



That's John Singer Sargent. I enjoy things like this when I don't feel great and thought c'est moi might feel the same.


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## Camper6 (Nov 30, 2018)

Does anyone know how old are humans in the scheme of life on earth?

Im positive in my mind that animals don't think the same as humans when it comes to the hereafter.


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## fmdog44 (Nov 30, 2018)

The idea of life after death is the single stupidest fairy tale ever created. We are so afraid of dying we make up a second chance idea with the difference being life is eternal on the second go around. How pathetic.


----------



## BlueDragonfly (Nov 30, 2018)

It never ceases to amaze me how hostile and insulting non-believers are. :upset:


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## rgp (Nov 30, 2018)

BlueDragonfly said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how hostile and insulting non-believers are. :upset:




 And it never ceases to amaze me how [some] folks [usually] believers tend to lump people they do not even know.....into one basket.


----------



## BlueDragonfly (Nov 30, 2018)

rgp said:


> And it never ceases to amaze me how [some] folks [usually] believers tend to lump people they do not even know.....into one basket.



I should have said "SOME non-believers are'". My apologies.


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## Grampa Don (Nov 30, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Does anyone know how old are humans in the scheme of life on earth?
> 
> Im positive in my mind that animals don't think the same as humans when it comes to the hereafter.



Based on fossil evidence, hominins apparently go back about 4 million years.  Modern humans about 50 to 100 thousand.  Who knows when religion began.  Imagine yourself in this situation. You're smart, and you see all these unexplainable things around you; animals, plants, the seasons, the sun, moon, and planets.  You see people die mysteriously and natural disasters, and you wonder why.  It's natural to think that something or someone is in control, and you try to figure out how to get on their good side.  So, maybe you sacrifice an animal and things get better, and you say AHA that works.  Eventually you have people who specialize in this sort of activity.  It's happened in every culture.

Lower animals aren't smart enough to think or worry about their own deaths.  That's their gift.

Don


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## Pete (Nov 30, 2018)

*Life after death.... from my eyes*



Pete said:


> _….the sound of a lone cough echoed off the marble floor and cement_






​ 
_I have not had any near death experiences so I cannot personally testify to what lies on the other side of this life based on actual experience and though I wish otherwise my faith is not so strong that I would happily face my mortality, so here I sit like millions of others vacillating back and forth between belief and skepticism.
_

*Almost half the population of this earth says that nothing happens there is no afterlife we are merely a physical being no better than any other animal walking this earth. We live for a time and then we are no more is their philosophy....
*
* but for those who insist on scientific evidence** I would like to postulate the following.....*​*….What if one day astronauts land on the moon or Mars and discover a functioning “bio-dome” one similar to the one in Arizona and when one stands at the control panel all the dials are set just right for human life. The oxygen ratio is perfect; the temperature is 70 degrees; the humidity is at 50%; there's a system for replenishing the air and radiation is at a rate not harmful to living beings. Looking closely you can see the dials have a huge range of possible settings and it is obvious if one were to adjust one or more of them a little bit the environment would go out of kilter and life would not be able to exist.
*

*What conclusion would you come to if this occurred on a future space mission? Could it be that it just happened into existence? The obvious answer is someone took great care to match the settings to human life and it was not there by accident. Some intelligent being designed and prepared it to support humans and that is the analogy I carry over to our planet earth.
*

*I do not believe that it could have happened just by luck that this one planet in the billions upon billions of planets in the universe had the perfect environment to nurture and sustain human life. If this belief sounds rational based on those facts then I think you must take the next logical step that only God could create that one in a billion planet ready for human life. You might now ask what does this have to do with life after death.... everything because it is a large part of the very foundation of the belief in God and therefore his teachings in the bible about heaven and hell.
*
*Like I have said my faith at times weakens
not for lack of desire
but because I know to share in Gods glory in heaven
I must lead a life free from sin
and though rewarding
that is not an easy walk down life's road.*​


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## Grampa Don (Nov 30, 2018)

Pete --  Of course you may be right.  Our existence is either on purpose or an amazing coincidence.  But, your odds are a bit off.  There are billions of suns in our galaxy, but there are billions of galaxies.  So, it's really one in more than a billion billion.  The universe is thought to be about 13 billion years old.  With those kind of odds, it could happen.

Don


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## MeAgain (Nov 30, 2018)

Sassycakes said:


> IMO I truly believe there is life after death, but it is just my opinion because of things I have experienced in my life.



Me too but good luck getting people to believe it. it has to happen to them.
I'm one of the few who had a witness to mine. 
  I know there is more to us than just matter aka flesh.


----------



## exwisehe (Nov 30, 2018)

My answer is based upon scripture, and I hope that is o.k. (even though I know some will no doubt scoff).  If I gave an opinion based upon anything else, it would be just that - an opinion.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is life after death.  We’ve been promised it, just read your Bible and see. 
Our security as believers rests on the tenet that Jesus in the Incarnate Son of God and because He was fully God and fully man we have the promise of eternal life and because He rose, so will we.  

If He failed to be God in flesh and didn’t rise from the grave, how can we have the hope that we will rise at the last day?  According to Luke 16:22, we even get an angelic escort! (its the account of the rich man and Lazarus)

I think the apostle Paul said it well in Corinthians “*and if the Messiah has not been raised, your faith is worthless and you are still imprisoned by your sins. But at this moment the Messiah stands risen from the dead, the first one offered in the harvest of those who have died.*”

Christians have the assurance that they will be part of the harvest.


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## Gary O' (Nov 30, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> The idea of life after death is the single stupidest fairy tale ever created. We are so afraid of dying we make up a second chance idea with the difference being life is eternal on the second go around. How pathetic.






BlueDragonfly said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how hostile and insulting non-believers are. :upset:



I get it

And I applaud the open honesty 

 I was wunna those
…and I was quite good at it

Shut down many a Christian in their tracks, with their own arguments

Called myself agnostic (loopholes what they are)

Happened onto a scholar

He showed…’xcuse me, proved to me, thru biblical prophecies, how that book is THEE book

Daniel and The Revelation, tied to the other 64 books
It’s an involved study, months, years 
But so worth it

It became fascinating, even while studying with a critical mind

Turned me around

Didn’t make me a saint

But, hey, The Man has this

And it breaks this stubbornly incorrigible soul


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## Sweetie Pie (Nov 30, 2018)

I am going to have a think about this, and get back to you.


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## Keesha (Nov 30, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> The idea of life after death is the single stupidest fairy tale ever created. We are so afraid of dying we make up a second chance idea with the difference being life is eternal on the second go around. How pathetic.


Who’s this WE you speak of. Please don’t speak for me. I am NOT afraid of death whatsoever . Death is actually pretty incredibly amazing but I’m not about to try and convince anyone of such a thing. We all find out eventually. 
What’s pathetic are people who aggressively put down other people’s beliefs. What others believe is non of our business; as long as they aren’t hurting others. Most humans need to have something to believe in that’s bigger than themselves


----------



## Sweetie Pie (Nov 30, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Who’s this WE you speak of. Please don’t speak for me. I am NOT afraid of death whatsoever . Death is actually pretty incredibly amazing but I’m not about to try and convince anyone of such a thing. We all find out eventually.
> What’s pathetic are people who aggressively put down other people’s beliefs. What others believe is non of our business; as long as they aren’t hurting others. Most humans need to have something to believe in that’s bigger than themselves



That is so true, no need to elaborate further, the point has been made. We all need our beliefs, otherwise, there is no point in living. Well said Keesha.


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## BlueDragonfly (Dec 1, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> I get it
> 
> And I applaud the open honesty
> 
> ...



Thank you for the response, and "getting it"! Any time a Christian speaks out in response to being insulted or attacked, there is always *someone* quick to pounce on them to belittle them more. Not EVERY non-believer does it, but *many*. But, I missed a word or two in my response to the person, and gladly admit my mistake, and apologize. It's what we do. No harm intended at all.

As for your testimony, hey, Paul was a Christian basher (shut them down) as well...... and look how he turned out. :love_heart:


----------



## Grampa Don (Dec 1, 2018)

Religion and politics: two topics that always rile people up.  I don't understand it.  It's so obvious that I'm always right.

Don


----------



## rgp (Dec 1, 2018)

Grampa Don said:


> Religion and politics: two topics that always rile people up.  I don't understand it.  It's so obvious that I'm always right.
> 
> Don




 LOL....I can understand political arguments firing folks up as it affects the individual and  the world in which they live.

 But I do not understand the religion argument because it is all belief & just doesn't matter...what I do shouldn't matter to the religious...and what they do does not matter too me....jmo


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## Grampa Don (Dec 1, 2018)

Ah, but it does matter a lot to believers.  How many people have died for their religion?  How many still do?  Look at the young fellow who was recently killed trying to convert a tribe in the south pacific.

What you do doesn't matter, but what you say does if they feel it is an attack.

Maybe I should clarify.  I'm not a believer, but I'm not an atheist either.  I just don't worry about it.

Don


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## Lord Elpus (Dec 1, 2018)

Thing is,Grampa D; it matters not whether I believe in God-but whether he believes in me.

I think maybe his conviction I exist isn't 100%,but he prefers to err on the side of caution,'just in case'.


----------



## fmdog44 (Dec 1, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Who’s this WE you speak of. Please don’t speak for me. I am NOT afraid of death whatsoever . Death is actually pretty incredibly amazing but I’m not about to try and convince anyone of such a thing. We all find out eventually.
> What’s pathetic are people who aggressively put down other people’s beliefs. What others believe is non of our business; as long as they aren’t hurting others. Most humans need to have something to believe in that’s bigger than themselves



Never heard of agnostics banging on doors encouraging people to believe as they do. Count the number of pro-religion programs on any Sunday vs. agnostic shows. How much money goes to religion vs, agnostic organizations annually? YOU wrote "Most humans need to have something to believe in that’s bigger than themselves"[/QUOTE] I rest my case. How many religious factions are there in the world? Why so many? Because no one can decide on what God is. Sad.​


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## fmdog44 (Dec 1, 2018)

Lord Elpus said:


> Thing is,Grampa D; it matters not whether I believe in God-but whether he believes in me.
> 
> I think maybe his conviction I exist isn't 100%,but he prefers to err on the side of caution,'just in case'.



Sure God is a he not a she and why does mankind identify God that way? Maybe God is a gas or a light.


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## fmdog44 (Dec 1, 2018)

If there is *life after death* then there is no death rather, just a transformation like from childhood to adulthood.


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## Olivia (Dec 1, 2018)

This thread is useless, unless you like arguing for argument's sake. Oh, but, JMO--of course.


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## rgp (Dec 1, 2018)

Grampa Don said:


> Ah, but it does matter a lot to believers.  How many people have died for their religion?  How many still do?  Look at the young fellow who was recently killed trying to convert a tribe in the south pacific.
> 
> What you do doesn't matter, but what you say does if they feel it is an attack.
> 
> ...




 On your fist sentence, perhaps you're right....??

 On your last sentence , we agree completely .

 As for the young guy in the Pacific ?....As I understand it, that island, those folks have had a "NO ONE WELCOME" reputation for years. He had to know..shame on him.


----------



## Knight (Dec 1, 2018)

Quote


"I think the apostle Paul said it well in Corinthians “and if the Messiah has not been raised, your faith is worthless and you are still imprisoned by your sins. But at this moment the Messiah stands risen from the dead, the first one offered in the harvest of those who have died.”

From that I guess prehistoric mankind is out of luck. Curious about all the animals. Do those have an after life or by the luck of the draw they are excluded? Seems to me if believing a creator created those and they carry, nurture and raise their offspring  isn't that comparable to what humans do. 

If animals are part of the afterlife do man-eaters continue with their earthly ways? 

Surely those that are bible savvy have some reference they can point to regarding prehistoric mankind & animals.


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## Olivia (Dec 1, 2018)

I don't understand whereas the discussion of politics is not allowed here, but that nasty attacks against very personal beliefs are. I'm really astounded. Go, ahead, make fun of that, too. You know you want to.


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## hearlady (Dec 1, 2018)

Of course there is life after death. Look at your children, your grandchildren. You're still here in them as our great grandparents are in us.  The genes and the DNA live on, one life remains within another.


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## Grampa Don (Dec 1, 2018)

I think Olivia has made a good point.  This subject only causes hard feelings and neither side is going to change the other's mind.  I'm done.

Don


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## Linda (Dec 1, 2018)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I don't believe in God, so an afterlife isn't in the picture. Since we don't get a second chance, we have to cherish what we have here, now. And that's a hard thing to do.



Well, maybe there is an afterlife without a God?  Not arguing with you.  I don't know.


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## grahamg (Dec 2, 2018)

Grampa Don said:


> Based on fossil evidence, hominins apparently go back about 4 million years.  Modern humans about 50 to 100 thousand.  Who knows when religion began.  Imagine yourself in this situation. You're smart, and you see all these unexplainable things around you; animals, plants, the seasons, the sun, moon, and planets.  You see people die mysteriously and natural disasters, and you wonder why.  It's natural to think that something or someone is in control, and you try to figure out how to get on their good side.  So, maybe you sacrifice an animal and things get better, and you say AHA that works.  Eventually you have people who specialize in this sort of activity.  It's happened in every culture.
> 
> Lower animals aren't smart enough to think or worry about their own deaths.  That's their gift.
> 
> Don




I've read a little on the subject of human evolution, and if I remember correctly well over half the time any early humans existed they were unable to conceptualise the world in the way apparent since then. The appearance of cave paintings is one way mankind showed an ability to think about concepts never previously possible to the even earlier hominids. It took such a vast amount of time for this change to occur it is thought to have been a sea change I believe, "being able to think differently" than previous generations were able to do, or any other animals, or mammals on earth.


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## Lara (Dec 2, 2018)

Pete said:
			
		

> Life after death...myth or fact?


Not myth. Not fact. It's Faith.


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## IKE (Dec 2, 2018)

Lara said:


> *Not myth. Not fact. "It's Faith*".



I've had a very close friend for over thirty years that has a college degree in Theological Studies, at one time had his own church for several years, is still a church Deacon and is now also in law enforcement.

Needless to say we've had many discussions about religion through the years about some of the things in the bible that are hard for me to believe and scientifically impossible.....the parting of the Red Sea, life after death, being turned into a pillar of salt, turning water into wine etc. etc quickly come to mind.

He said the same thing to me that Lara did above......it's all about having faith, even though you know in your mind it's impossible you go with what you feel in your heart.

I won't go into my religious beliefs or my political and racial views because discussing them only leads to a debate and no matter how lengthy the discussion I very seriously doubt that anyone has ever changed their views on a subject such as religion simply because of reading conflicting views on a forum.

No matter what the subject or how lengthy the debate.....the end result is that every person feels and believes what they feel and believe.


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## BlueDragonfly (Dec 3, 2018)

"Casting pearls before swines....."


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## Gary O' (Dec 3, 2018)

Lara said:


> Not myth. Not fact. It's Faith.



I just wanna contend a bit

For me, faith is not blind

My faith is not based on believing the unbelievable

There is too much proof for that

It’s more in what Martin Luther discovered (after several sessions of self-flagellation)
Faith that God covers my shortcomings (my paraphrase)

Our righteousness is like 'filthy rags', no matter how we try

God’s sacrifice, I lay my faith in that

Faith…heh….I’m freaking counting on it


His death, sometimes depicted as a war hero’s death, is so much more

He died the death, mine, the eternal one
First time separated from His Father
That was His agony…feeling His Father’s withdrawal
Not knowing

His death, gives me a shot at the new earth 

I can’t imagine how that’ll be

But I try, with what I see in the here and now


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## C'est Moi (Dec 3, 2018)

BlueDragonfly said:


> "Casting pearls before swines....."



 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor *cast* your *pearls before swine*, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."


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## Grampa Don (Dec 3, 2018)

So, people who aren't Christians are swine.  That kind of says something, doesn't it.  No hate there.  

Don


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## C'est Moi (Dec 3, 2018)

Grampa Don said:


> So, people who aren't Christians are swine.  That kind of says something, doesn't it.  No hate there.
> 
> Don



Agree.


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## BlueDragonfly (Dec 3, 2018)

Grampa Don said:


> So, people who aren't Christians are swine.  That kind of says something, doesn't it.  No hate there.
> 
> Don



Actually no. That isn't it at all. The saying means to share something with someone who won't understand. My apologies, I thought at our age, everyone would know the meaning and not twist it into some offense like the current generation tends to do.


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## Butterfly (Dec 3, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> I get it
> 
> And I applaud the open honesty
> 
> ...



Lovely post, Gary.


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## Butterfly (Dec 3, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> I just wanna contend a bit
> 
> For me, faith is not blind
> 
> ...



Even lovelier post Gary. 

I feel the same way.


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## Butterfly (Dec 3, 2018)

BlueDragonfly said:


> Actually no. That isn't it at all. The saying means to share something with someone who won't understand. My apologies, I thought at our age, everyone would know the meaning and not twist it into some offense like the current generation tends to do.



I, for one, got it.  It's a metaphorical statement about wasting your effort trying to convince people who don't want to be convinced.


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## Olivia (Dec 3, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> I, for one, got it.  It's a metaphorical statement about wasting your effort trying to convince people who don't want to be convinced.



Yes, what it means is don't bug people who don't want to hear it.

If anyone really relishes this kind of argument, there are many skeptic boards that would love to have you.

Which is what I thought I was getting away from.


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## Sunny (Dec 4, 2018)

OK, I found this on the subject: 

Before Jesus says, “Do not cast your pearls  before swine,” He says, “Do not give dogs what is sacred.” An analogy  mentioning dogs is also used in Proverbs: “As a dog returns to its  vomit, so a fool repeats his folly” (Proverbs 26:11). A dual reference to swine and dogs is also found in 2 Peter 2:22,  “Of [false teachers] the proverbs are true: ‘A dog returns to its  vomit,’ and, ‘A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the  mud.’” In His sermon, Jesus uses dogs and pigs as representative of  those who would ridicule, reject, and blaspheme the gospel  once it is presented to them. We are not to expose the gospel of Jesus  Christ to those who have no other purpose than to trample it and return  to their own evil ways. Repeatedly sharing the gospel with someone who  continually scoffs and ridicules Christ is like casting pearls before  swine. We can identify such people through discernment, which is given  in some measure to all Christians (1 Corinthians 2:15–16).

They really didn't like dogs much in those days, did they?  I wonder how many people in the modern world would agree with that philosophy?

Well, leaving the dogs and pigs out of it, I do, pretty much, and I am a nonbeliever.  I think it just makes sense to stop preaching whatever gospel you believe in, when you see it is not appreciated, and is not convincing people. Although using the "dogs and pigs" and "casting pearls" analogy is kind of snarky, it does make sense. If your biblical ideas (or any ideas, for that matter!) are being met with hostility and rejection, it makes sense to knock it off.


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## BlueDragonfly (Dec 4, 2018)

Exactly. So.... "Wiping the dust off my shoes....."


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## Gary O' (Dec 4, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Well, leaving the dogs and pigs out of it, I do, pretty much, and I am a nonbeliever.  I think it just makes sense to stop preaching whatever gospel you believe in, when you see it is not appreciated, and is not convincing people. Although using the "dogs and pigs" and "casting pearls" analogy is kind of snarky, it does make sense. If your biblical ideas (or any ideas, for that matter!) are being met with hostility and rejection, it makes sense to knock it off.



Heh, could never be truer

We’re all pretty much set in our ways
Lived too long to be otherwise

Arguments?
nada

It just inspires some of us to get some things off our hoary chests

No harm, no fowl, no pig, no dog intended


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## Lara (Dec 5, 2018)

Grampa Don said:


> So, people who aren't Christians are swine.  That kind of says something, doesn't it.  No hate there. Don





> "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest *they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."*


The hateful, aka swine,  are the ones who "trample you under your feet and turn and tear you into pieces". The swine are not just people who "aren't Christians", as you say, nor people who just don't want to listen, nor people who respectfully have a different point of view.

This is a warning for believers not to waste their time or breath or holy knowledge and wisdom they've gotten from God's Word with anyone whose hearts are not only completely closed to it BUT also want to turn and attack you viciously, tearing you into pieces. Those are the hateful ones. Not the one who loves enough to take the time to share their Good News. 

If a believer is attacking a non-believer viciously and tearing someone into pieces then they aren't really walking the walk. Maybe they have head knowledge but their heart needs a tune-up, as a prayer in Psalms says, "create in me a clean heart and renew a right spirit within me".

God via scripture even tells believers to walk away from those who don't want to listen and instead, love them and pray for them. It's everyone's choice.

EDIT: I was on the previous page (12/3/18) when I responded. I didn't see this page of posts. I hate that when that happens


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## Lara (Dec 5, 2018)

Linda said:


> Well, maybe there is an afterlife without a God? Not arguing with you. I don't know.


Afterlife without God? Hmm, well, some who have shared the same near-death experience say they went to a "Void" that was all black and nothingness yet they were fully conscious. They said some bypassed it but others either had to escape with positive thoughts or be reincarnated to do life again. Some just came back to life (from their near-death).

My son actually had a near-death experience when he had Miocarditis at age 2. He couldn't articulate it until about age 3 when my sister took my son for a walk and he pointed up to a mountaintop and said "I've been up there before". My sister didn't tell me that until my son was about age 8 and he shared his near-death experience with me.

My son told me he was on a mountaintop looking down with someone next to him. He said he wasn't sure what he looked like because He was at his side but He was very very bright like a bright light and he was good. My son felt it was God. I asked, when you looked down from the mountaintop what did you see? He said "Nothing. It was just black" (*this shocked me at the time and not in a good way but I didn't let on). He said, "in fact, I can go there anytime if I want to. I have been at my school desk and could close my eyes and see it...but I don't want to." 

For years and years I was really bothered that he had a dark experience while most others speak of nothing but pure bliss and beauty....until recently. *I've read where many talked of several dimensions some people pass through...one of which is the Void. I finally had an explanation for this black nothingness my son had spoken of. My son never entered it but viewed it with Jesus by His side. Apparently this Void is a place they say to reflect on your life and isn't necessarily bad unless you have no positive thoughts.

After hearing all this, like alleged reincarnation, I'm still a Christian believer. It doesn't change that. In fact the bright light would have been Jesus, the Son of God.


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## Capt Lightning (Dec 5, 2018)

One day when out shopping, a well dressed gentleman carrying (I assume) a bible, approached us and asked if we believed in Jesus Christ as our lord and saviour. Without hesitating my wife answered "No".  The man seemed totally surprised by this, said "sorry for having troubled us" and walked off.  Wise man.


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## Knight (Dec 5, 2018)

When it comes to religion it seems most reference the bible. Since this as a topic has continued I was curious about other religions & decided to seek out information. This web site was an eye opener for me. I think whatever belief/faith system people have that works for them is great, and there are a lot, amazes me.  


ReligionComparison Table
A List of All Religions and Belief Systems




81 entries are listed here. It is simply impossible to list all varieties of religion as we as a species have created an almost infinite variety of religious and transcendental ideas. Items in lower case italics are classes of religion and not actual religions. For example, "theism" is any religion that contains god(s), and "polytheism" is a form of theism.
http://www.humanreligions.info/religions.html


Everything from 
Aum Shinrikyo
Dangerous and violent religious community responsible for the 1995 Sarin gas attack on Tokyo's subway and other crimes. Eventually they apologized, stopped using the Bible, and formed the more prosaic group called Aleph
Theist
Yes
The Bible and other


to
Yezidism
An ancient religion. Malek Taus looks after the world with 6 other angels. Heavily persecuted by Muslims and accused of Devil Worship
Monotheist
Reincarnation
Yezidi Book of Revelation & Black Book


Yep something for everyone even atheist is in there.


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## Olivia (Dec 5, 2018)

The problem with religion (as I see it) is that we've (whomever) turned the messages from the wise who've lived among us (and still do) about how we should live and making our lives worthwhile into idolatry of those very individuals and basically turning then into stone. We end up worshiping stone instead of remembering the flesh and blood. Whatever God/Creator there is (or isn't) I would bet they would prefer we live their Words rather then bowing down to them. That to me is what is wrong with religion because of making it into who is right and who is wrong and fighting each other and thereby turning people off.


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## fmdog44 (Dec 5, 2018)

Do we need religion to tell us what is right and wrong?


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## Olivia (Dec 5, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> Do we need religion to tell us what is right and wrong?



You tell me.


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## drifter (Dec 8, 2018)

We don't know if life continues. So far as knowing right from wrong I think we could get along well enough without religion. Just being logical it appears life ends with death.It's the great unknown. We don't have a Marco Polo to ccome back and say, "Hey the world is bigger than I thought. I went over yonder and come back by a different route. The world may be round." Nor a Lewis and Clark who went and saw and returned to say, "Yep, it goes on an on." So we don't know. The birds and the bees, the animals and the trees don't seem to have much hang ups. Out my back window from my office I'm watching a flock of bluejays and a pair of cardinal munch on seed I threw out for them this morning. They seem to go with the flow and take advantage where they can. No, we don't know much of anything, I'm thinking.


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