# I Have Been Seeing War Bulletins About Russia's Intentions



## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

*Lately I've seen bulletins in the news about why Russia is fighting Ukraine.  Do you think this war can be justified by Russia and why?*


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## Packerjohn (Mar 26, 2022)

Your kidding us, right?  War is never justified unless you think that there are too many people on this planet and a "nice" way to solve that problem is to shot women and children and bomb all the cities.  Everyone these days is talking about "moving forward."  I suppose this war is Putin's Plan for Moving Forward."


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## Murrmurr (Mar 26, 2022)

America has also tried to justify a few outright military invasions of other countries.

No, there's no justification for Russia's decision to invade Ukraine.


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## Pepper (Mar 26, 2022)

Anything can be justified within one's own mind, which does not make it agreeable or sane to anyone else.  Despite what crap they're making up, no, Russia is not justified.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> Your kidding us, right?  War is never justified unless you think that there are too many people on this planet and a "nice" way to solve that problem is to shot women and children and bomb all the cities.  Everyone these days is talking about "moving forward."  I suppose this war is Putin's Plan for Moving Forward."


No way am I kidding.  Just asked a question no matter how strange you think that is.  This is a forum for debate and analysis.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Anything can be justified within one's own mind, which does not make it agreeable or sane to anyone else.  Despite what crap they're making up, no, Russia is not justified.


I agree that Russia isn't justified.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 26, 2022)

from Reuters...

U.N. General Assembly in historic vote denounces Russia over Ukraine invasion

https://www.reuters.com/world/un-ge...sure-russia-over-ukraine-invasion-2022-03-02/

++++

Vote to denounce was supported by 141 nations. Only 5 supported Russia.

Basically, the entire world is against the invasion. In the US, both the GOP and the Dems condemn the invasion.



​


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> from Reuters...
> 
> U.N. General Assembly in historic vote denounces Russia over Ukraine invasion​​https://www.reuters.com/world/un-ge...sure-russia-over-ukraine-invasion-2022-03-02/​​++++​​Vote to denounce was supported by 141 nations. Only 5 supported Russia.​​Basically, the entire world is against the invasion. In the US, both the GOP and the Dems condemn the invasion.​​​​​​


what do you think of Russia's justification?


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## JonSR77 (Mar 26, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> what do you think of Russia's justification?


'tis the manure of the bull


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> 'tis the manure of the bull


That's for sure.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 26, 2022)

before Rome would invade a country...which was always about plunder, increasing wealth and etc...they would engage in a propaganda campaign to diminish the enemy and make them look like uncivilized savages...so that Rome was a "civilizing force."

so the manure of the bull, coming from Russia, is a very very ancient war strategy.

The word "barbarian" comes from how the ancient Romans would mock their adversaries, saying that their language sounded like gibberish, that they were just making the sound "bar, bar, bar, bar, bar."


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

Yes I've seen that done before and then people will justify by their predudices.


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## Paco Dennis (Mar 26, 2022)

Ghana Socialist Leader: We Know Who Are Real Enemies Are and It’s Not Russia​


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## wimhof (Mar 26, 2022)

of course there is a justification for the invasion of Ukraine. I don't know what it is but Russia is selling it to it's people. Nationalism, defense from NATO, economic warfare, ethnic destiny. I'm sure they have clever people who can justify anything and a media that can reinforce it. Remember WMD.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

wimhof said:


> of course there is a justification for the invasion of Ukraine. I don't know what it is but Russia is selling it to it's people. Nationalism, defense from NATO, economic warfare, ethnic destiny. I'm sure they have clever people who can justify anything and a media that can reinforce it. Remember WMD.


What is WMD?


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## John cycling (Mar 26, 2022)

The US and NATO have been invading toward Russia for many, many years. 
The US in particular has been building a presence in the Ukraine for quite a few years. 

What would the US response be if Russia was setting up military bases in Mexico and Canada?
Consider those answers when considering how Russia is responding to the continuing invasions toward them.

WMD = weapons of mass destruction, the US excuse for the invasion of Iraq and for murdering millions of their citizens.
.


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## Nathan (Mar 26, 2022)

John cycling said:


> WMD = weapons of mass destruction, the US excuse for the invasion of Iraq and for murdering millions of their citizens.
> .


You and I are not always on the same side of critical issues, but in this instance I whole-heartedly concur.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

John cycling said:


> The US and NATO have been invading toward Russia for many, many years.
> The US in particular has been building a presence in the Ukraine for quite a few years.
> 
> What would the US response be if Russia was setting up military bases in Mexico and Canada?
> ...


(The US) Invading to you may be trying to get protection for territories by other nations, and against possible Russian invasions.    Russian has proven they will take over any country they can in the past.  So we have NATO to defend against Russia--unless you object?

If Russia was setting up military basis in Canada and Russia you could be sure we would defend ourselves.  And whose side are you on anyways?


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

John cycling said:


> The US and NATO have been invading toward Russia for many, many years.
> The US in particular has been building a presence in the Ukraine for quite a few years.
> 
> What would the US response be if Russia was setting up military bases in Mexico and Canada?
> ...


Yes but who started it in the Middle East anyway--Osama bin Laden and 911 and before that the insanity of Iraqiis.  Who's side are you on anyways?


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

Nathan said:


> You and I are not always on the same side of critical issues, but in this instance I whole-heartedly concur.


The US does not invade solely to kill.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 26, 2022)

Another good source of information, re the Russian invasion of Ukraine...

Former Supreme Commander of NATO, Admiral James Stavridis...

https://time.com/6157257/nato-ukraine-military-aid/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Stavridis


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## JonSR77 (Mar 26, 2022)

John cycling said:


> The US and NATO have been invading toward Russia for many, many years.
> The US in particular has been building a presence in the Ukraine for quite a few years.
> 
> What would the US response be if Russia was setting up military bases in Mexico and Canada?
> ...


there was exactly ZERO build up of either US or NATO forces, prior to Putin's invasion of Ukraine, prior to his previous invasion of Ukraine, prior to his atrocities in Georgia, Chechnya and Syria.


The UN declared his actions in Syria to be war crimes. I am sure they will shortly declare his actions in Ukraine to be the same.

Virtually the entire world community agrees and does not cite any provocation from the US or NATO...at all.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

Also I did not start this thread to villify the USA about anything so please cease to try to do that!!


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## ohioboy (Mar 26, 2022)

My question is once the attack plan was in place, despite Putin's claim it was simply a military exercise, why weren't preemptive measures taken to thwart it?


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## JonSR77 (Mar 26, 2022)

John cycling said:


> The US and NATO have been invading toward Russia for many, many years.
> The US in particular has been building a presence in the Ukraine for quite a few years.
> 
> What would the US response be if Russia was setting up military bases in Mexico and Canada?
> ...


to be clear, I am hardly in agreement with everything that the US does. 

I think the US helped save the entire world during WWII. And I think the US has done an enormous amount of good, all over the world.

I think the US has also, sometimes, been in bed with greedy corporations and done their bidding, instead of serving the democratic interests of the people.

It seems like every major nation has done some good and also been involved in some level of corruption.


But, two wrongs don't make a right.

Just because the US lied about WMD in Iraq, hardly justifies Putin's actions. If he wants to push the idea that he "needs" to be imperialistic to defend Russia, he can say those words. But just because those words come out of his mouth, does not make them true.

If that idea was legitimate, the world community would be split between its support for Ukraine and its support for Russia.

But the world community is NOT split. It is 141 against Russia. 5 for Russia and 35 abstentions.

Even China refused to support Russia, choosing, instead, to abstain.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> Also I did not start this thread to villify the USA about anything so please cease to try to do that!!


This is about RUSSIA and not the USA.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 26, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> My question is once the attack plan was in place, despite Putin's claim it was simply a military exercise, why weren't preemptive measures taken to thwart it?


because Putin has nukes and he is nuts and the world community is very nervous about opposing him, or how to oppose him, without risking nuclear war.  Like a Mafia don, he has used that threat, to get away with horrible things in Ukraine, and before that, in Georgia, Chechnya and Syria.

This time is different. The world community is responding. And it is not likely that the world community is going to back down to him. Hopefully, the brinksmanship will end.

Hopefully, his generals will convince him to come to some negotiated peace...


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> because Putin has nukes and he is nuts and the world community is very nervous about opposing him, or how to oppose him, without risking nuclear war.  Like a Mafia don, he has used that threat, to get away with horrible things in Ukraine, and before that, in Georgia, Chechnya and Syria.
> 
> This time is different. The world community is responding. And it is not likely that the world community is going to back down to him. Hopefully, the brinksmanship will end.
> 
> Hopefully, his generals will convince him to come to some negotiated peace...


Yes.


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## David777 (Mar 26, 2022)

On this board we have already gone over this several times starting weeks ago if anyone wondering has bothered to actually go to and read posted links.  So WRONG QUESTION. 

Of course the war cannot be justified by Russia's action, and that is just the way neocon warmongers want the issue looked at by the Western public. But then there is more as the war and all its death and destruction really did not need to happen. The real question ought be, 

*"Did neocon militarists set up Ukraine leaders into believing NATO would really come to their aid, would become part of NATO, if they continued to provoke Russia and their warmonger Kremlin leaders enough that they would actually eventually attack and cause a horrible destructive war?  *

And as was for weeks predicted, Russia did attack, Ukraine leaders were then apparently instructed by the neocons to show the world how horrible their people were suffering bombed from their world, escaping out of their homeland, massive destruction, and death.  As if they did so for long enough weeks plastered daily over compliant Western media, pleading for help, that yes NATO would eventually come to their aid.  But a few weeks in after the neocon warmongers admitted they, well would not actually go into Ukraine and Ukraine would never be allowed into NATO, and rather this was all along going to be a PROXY WAR, even Zelenski admitted he was played.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

David777 said:


> On this board we have already gone over this several times starting weeks ago if anyone wondering has bothered to actually go to and read posted links.  So WRONG QUESTION.
> 
> Of course the war cannot be justified by Russia's action, and that is just the way neocon warmongers want the issue looked at by the Western public. But then there is more as the war and all its death and destruction really did not need to happen. The real question ought be,
> 
> ...


whatever.


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## Shalimar (Mar 26, 2022)

*In the Great Game, being played is the norm. So it has always been.*


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> America has also tried to justify a few outright military invasions of other countries.
> 
> No, there's no justification for Russia's decision to invade Ukraine.


This thread is not about America, just so you know, but about Russia!!  I agree there's no justification for what Russian has done but they have given reason we can discuss.


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## FastTrax (Mar 26, 2022)

Russian ballistic missile weapons systems

Avangard



www.nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russian-avangard-hypersonic-icbm-serious-threat-169298

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avangard_(hypersonic_glide_vehicle)






Burevestnik



www.nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/russias-skyfall-nuclear-cruise-missile-danger-and-not-only-its-enemies-165699

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M730_Burevestnik






Kinzhal



www.nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russias-bombardments-escalate-its-ground-forces-struggle-201353

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal






Status-6 Poseidon



www.nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/does-poseidon-missile-give-russia-edge-naval-combat-194610

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status-6_Oceanic_Multipurpose_System






RS-28 Sarmat



www.nationalinterest.org/tag/sarmat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-28_Sarmat






Interesting rebuttal

www.quora.com/Who-would-win-in-a-war-between-russia-and-the-US


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> *In the Great Game, being played is the norm. So it has always been.*


What do you mean by being played?


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## ohioboy (Mar 26, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> What do you mean by being played?


"All the World's a stage, and the men and women merely players"!


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> "All the World's a stage, and the men and women merely players"!


Of course .


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## Judycat (Mar 26, 2022)

A lot of propaganda coming out of that area.


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## dseag2 (Mar 26, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> what do you think of Russia's justification?


I think it is mostly Putin's justification.  I understand that he will soon be turning 70, he is isolated from reality and he somehow wants to leave his legacy, whatever that is.  He could have actually taken credit for improving the Russian economy and quality of life since he gained power, but now his legacy will be one of disdain by both the Russian people and most of the world.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 26, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I think it is mostly Putin's justification.  I understand that he will soon be turning 70, he is isolated from reality and he somehow wants to leave his legacy, whatever that is.  He could have actually taken credit for improving the Russian economy and quality of life since he gained power, but now his legacy will be one of disdain by both the Russian people and most of the world.


I hear you you.

.


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## Paco Dennis (Mar 26, 2022)

Thread "I Have Been Seeing War Bulletins About Russia's Intentions"



Ruthanne said:


> Also I did not start this thread to villify the USA about anything so please cease to try to do that!!



That means that others might not have the same view as you, and many see the US and NATO as the aggressors. That is a fact.


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## AnnieA (Mar 27, 2022)

John cycling said:


> The US and NATO have been invading toward Russia for many, many years.



NATO has _*expanded,*_ not!!! invaded. Every new NATO country does so willingly after completing a membership plan of action and submitting a bill of ratification. No country is co-opted or unwillingly absorbed. As for expansion towards Russia, they seem to think NATO violated some sort of agreement not to expand near them but there's never been a treaty or formal agreement limiting NATO's membership in the Baltics or Scandinavia.


Definitions:

Expand:  to increase the extent, number, volume, or scope 

Invade: to enter for conquest or plunder, encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another.


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## Pepper (Mar 27, 2022)

IMO, @David777 
You make very valid points regarding neo cons.


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## Paco Dennis (Mar 27, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> NATO *US* has _*expanded,*_ not!!! invaded. Every new NATO country does so willingly after completing a membership plan of action and submitting a bill of ratification. No country is co-opted or unwillingly absorbed. As for expansion towards Russia, they seem to think *NATO violated some sort of agreement not to expand* near them but there's never been a treaty or formal agreement limiting NATO's membership in the Baltics or Scandinavia.
> 
> 
> Definitions:
> ...



Iraq?


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## RadishRose (Mar 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Iraq?


I don't think the OP had anything to do with Iraq, amigo.


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## Nathan (Mar 27, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> The US does not invade solely to kill.


Of course not, but the end result in the past several of our invasion operations has been thousands / millions of needless deaths.


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## Lavinia (Mar 27, 2022)

I'm surprised that anyone needs to ask such a question! However, this whole business has brought certain things out into the open. It shows how complacent the whole of Europe has become.


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## Paco Dennis (Mar 27, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> I don't think the OP had anything to do with Iraq, amigo.


Yes it does. It is a question about Russia's intentions. It has been stated as Putin's #1 reason that NATO quits invading countries close to it's borders. Some believe NATO doesn't invade ( which is a direct provocation for war ), but in truth it DOES invade countries  like Iraq. Where was the demonizing of the US for invading Iraq under false premises lies/propaganda, killing 1000's of innocent children and civilians? Why didn't NATO send arms to the Iraqi's to defend themselves from a oil crazed administration? Did we see televised disaster caused by the thousands of atrocities to the Iraqi people? Tell me why it is ok to demonize Putin and not the US and NATO for the same thing, and knowing that the invasion of Iraq is far and away the eviler act?


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## RadishRose (Mar 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Yes it does. It is a question about Russia's intentions. It has been stated as Putin's #1 reason that NATO quits invading countries close to it's borders. Some believe NATO doesn't invade ( which is a direct provocation for war ), but in truth it DOES invade countries  like Iraq. Where was the demonizing of the US for invading Iraq under false premises lies/propaganda, killing 1000's of innocent children and civilians? Why didn't NATO send arms to the Iraqi's to defend themselves from a oil crazed administration? Did we see televised disaster caused by the thousands of atrocities to the Iraqi people? Tell me why it is ok to demonize Putin and not the US and NATO for the same thing, and knowing that the invasion of Iraq is far and away the eviler act?


Thanks for your explanations. I just understand this current crisis to be a separate thing from Iraq.


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## Paco Dennis (Mar 27, 2022)

Yes...it is a semi-seperate set of circumstances, but now it involves almost every nation in the world, including the middle east. The problem is the war mongers are threatening and escalating the possibility of WWIII. $Billions of military aid are flowing into Ukraine. This is headed for a devastatingly long and deadly war that could possibly go nuclear.

  It is very clear to me that the cheer leading for a big war is a monumental mistake. The cheer leading should be for diplomacy, and an immediate stop to the killing.


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## Murrmurr (Mar 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Yes...it is a semi-seperate set of circumstances, but now it involves almost every nation in the world, including the middle east. The problem is the war mongers are threatening and escalating the possibility of WWIII. $Billions of military aid are flowing into Ukraine. This is headed for a devastatingly long and deadly war that could possibly go nuclear.
> 
> It is very clear to me that the cheer leading for a big war is a monumental mistake. The cheer leading should be for diplomacy, and an immediate stop to the killing.


But negotiations/diplomacy aren't working. The stipulations Putin demands on Ukraine are ridiculous. Basically he's saying he'll stop killing if Ukraine promises to become defenseless plus give him a chunk of their country.

Putin keeps changing his story. He's given at least 3 different reasons for the invasion at three different times depending on how things unfold. Like that a kid on his bike who messes up on the jump-ramp; when the other kids laugh he says "I _meant_ to do that."


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## Murrmurr (Mar 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Yes it does. It is a question about Russia's intentions. It has been stated as Putin's #1 reason that NATO quits invading countries close to it's borders. Some believe NATO doesn't invade ( which is a direct provocation for war ), but in truth it DOES invade countries  like Iraq. Where was the demonizing of the US for invading Iraq under false premises lies/propaganda, killing 1000's of innocent children and civilians? Why didn't NATO send arms to the Iraqi's to defend themselves from a oil crazed administration? Did we see televised disaster caused by the thousands of atrocities to the Iraqi people? *Tell me why it is ok to demonize Putin and not the US and NATO for the same thing*, and knowing that the invasion of Iraq is far and away the eviler act?


You make it sound like NATO is a place and the US is another place. I know that's not what you think, but let's pare this thing back.

Countries that join NATO all agree to defend each other if one is attacked by any external forces. Each member agrees to properly fund and maintain their military. However, over the decades, _most_ NATO members have deferred to the big ol' USA to be the primary defender while they have underfunded in their own military. 

Currently, some of those members are finally stepping up with new, much larger military budgets.


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## Judycat (Mar 27, 2022)

Wait. We haven't helped Ukraine get the planes they want so badly. Hey.They don't need no stinking pilots, they'll fly the planes themselves. So that, when they "accidently" fly over the border and bomb a couple of Russian derevnyas, we'll find ourselves in really deep s**t.


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## FastTrax (Mar 27, 2022)

Food for thought:


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Mar 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> *America has also tried to justify a few outright military invasions of other countries.*
> 
> No, there's no justification for Russia's decision to invade Ukraine.


I see what you did there!   Like the invasion of a sovereign Iraq for Weapons of Mass Destruction which never existed. Four Pinocchio's/whoppers for W. By the way, I heard he's still looking for those WMD in North Texas. 

Russia surely will get what it wants. Who is going to stop them?


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## FastTrax (Mar 27, 2022)

Interesting Russian military communications intercepts.

Click on the speaker icon on the lower right to activate audio.

www.nytimes.com/video/world/europe/100000008266864/russia-army-radio-makariv.html?playlistId=video/investigations


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## FastTrax (Mar 28, 2022)

Ukraine military committing alleged war crimes video surfaces.

www.nypost.com/2022/03/28/ukraine-to-probe-after-videos-show-alleged-russian-pows-shot/


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## Murrmurr (Mar 28, 2022)

FastTrax said:


> Ukraine military committing alleged war crimes video surfaces.
> 
> www.nypost.com/2022/03/28/ukraine-to-probe-after-videos-show-alleged-russian-pows-shot/


“We are a European army, and we do not mock our prisoners. If this turns out to be real, this is absolutely unacceptable behavior,” senior presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said.

“I would like to remind all our military, civilian and defense forces once again that the abuse of prisoners is a war crime that has no amnesty under military law and has no statute of limitations.” 

But this is what can happen when you arm untrained citizens who've seen neighbors, family or friends get shot or blown up.


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## Judycat (Mar 28, 2022)

Mooch and Hozer, mostly Mooch, should go over to Russia and talk Putin to death. I believe he can do it.


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## Pepper (Mar 28, 2022)

What?  Who?


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## Murrmurr (Mar 28, 2022)

Zelensky has said Ukraine is ready to discuss the issue of neutrality in an effort to end Russia's invasion. He also said any agreement to stay out of the NATO military alliance would need be put to Ukraine voters in a referendum after Russian troops withdraw.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...ssia-news-troops-killed-tanks-neutral-status/


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## Pepper (Mar 28, 2022)

Putin wants to split the country, like Korea, but instead of N & S it will be East & West


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## Tish (Mar 28, 2022)

@FastTrax will watch them all when I get back.
Thanks for posting them.


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## FastTrax (Mar 28, 2022)

Tish said:


> @FastTrax will watch them all when I get back.
> Thanks for posting them.



My pleasure Tish.


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## AnnieA (Mar 29, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Yes it does. It is a question about Russia's intentions. It has been stated as Putin's #1 reason that NATO quits invading countries close to it's borders.



Your misuse of NATO 'invasion' rather than expansion close to Russia's borders makes even less sense considering Putin himself wanted Russia to join NATO at the beginning of his first, legitimate (seemingly at the time) presidency.  But even then, ego tripped him up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

Excerpt:
​The Labour [George Robertson] peer recalled an early meeting with Putin, who became Russian president in 2000. “Putin said: ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’ And [Robertson] said: ‘Well, we don’t invite people to join Nato, they apply to join Nato.’ And he said: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”​​The account chimes with what Putin told the late David Frost in a BBC interview shortly before he was first inaugurated as Russian president more than 21 years ago. Putin told Frost he would not rule out joining Nato “if and when Russia’s views are taken into account as those of an equal partner”.​​He told Frost it was hard for him to visualise Nato as an enemy. “Russia is part of the European culture. And I cannot imagine my own country in isolation from Europe and what we often call the civilised world.”​


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## SeniorBen (Mar 29, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Putin wants to split the country, like Korea, but instead of N & S it will be East & West


He also said that he's going to ease up on (but not stop) murdering Ukrainians around Kiev. That's awfully generous of him.


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## RadishRose (Mar 29, 2022)

Pepper said:


> What?  Who?


I looked them up. Aviators it seems,,,,, thought at first it was a video game!
https://forums.mudspike.com/t/mooch-jell-o-and-hoser-at-hook-21/12994/2


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## mellowyellow (Mar 29, 2022)

Nine Russians have been given permits to climb peaks in Nepal this spring, despite calls from Ukrainian diplomats and mountaineers for them to be banned after President Putin sent troops into Ukraine.


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## mellowyellow (Mar 30, 2022)

*Russia *announced a temporary *ceasefire *to allow civilians to be transferred from *Mariupol *to Zaporijya, starting from 10.00 Moscow time.

"Russia's Armed Forces declare - exclusively for humanitarian purposes - a ceasefire on March 31 from 10 am [0800 GMT]," Major General Mikhail Mizintsev said on Wednesday evening, according to Interfax agency. The *temporary ceasefire *was intended to allow civilians to flee the embattled port city on the Sea of *Azov *first to *Berdyansk *to the west and then on to *Zaporizhzhia*.


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## David777 (Mar 30, 2022)

New 23 minute video interview with a top Russia expert with contacts inside its military and security services that provides a more reliable read on what is going on within the minds of those people versus some of the nonsense Western media has been regularly releasing per their obvious agenda.  At the end he does expect Putin may not survive his power.

DW.com  Conflict Zone
Can Putin survive politically the war in Ukraine?

https://www.dw.com/en/can-putin-survive-politically-the-war-in-ukraine/av-61296463


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## Pepper (Mar 30, 2022)

David777 said:


> New 23 minute video interview with a top Russia expert with contacts inside its military and security services that provides a more reliable read on what is going on within the minds of those people versus some of the nonsense Western media has been regularly releasing per their obvious agenda.


Western media reports what is given to them but don't make it up.  Their crime is repeating the nonsense endlessly and speculating on it, based on their persuasion.    Their agenda is like any corporation--make $.


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## SeniorBen (Mar 30, 2022)

Urrp.


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## David777 (Mar 30, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> DW News is a global English-language news and information program from German public international broadcaster Deutsche Welle (DW), established in summer 2015. *DW is funded by the German government and is barred from broadcasting in Germany itself.*
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DW_News
> 
> Sounds like propaganda to me.


Reads like someone that never bothered to actually view the link I provided and rather just assumed it was something they would not like listening to so instead decided to discourage other members from bothering to watch the link with terse discrediting nonsense.   As though most members aren't intelligent enough to make sense out of news media themselves ala Homer Simpsons so (un-American) censoring is necessary.  As I've related in the past anything people post on this little web board will have infinitesimal influence on not only the war but anything else.  My reason for posting is to provide members broader balanced sources of either persuasion, one can choose to read or not, then post their thoughts pro or con.


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## WhatInThe (Mar 30, 2022)

It's going to be a shallow victory at this point. It took too long. Putin thought gangster mode ie intimidation with his military would've coerced a quick surrender.

In reality other than technology and numbers the Russian military hasn't been involved in a major campaign like the Gulf War or Iraq invasion. The only 'success' for his military seems to be that hypersonic missile so he might be able to sell those to puppet states or allies. He did get India to buy oil but at rock bottom prices. Most Russians won't benefit from the taken territory. What he's gained won't be the legacy that narcissist desired.


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## SeniorBen (Mar 30, 2022)

Actually, this is an interesting video. The interviewee, Andrei Soldatov, is a highly respected journalist.
https://www.dw.com/en/can-putin-survive-politically-the-war-in-ukraine/av-61296463


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## Autumn72 (Mar 30, 2022)

John cycling said:


> The US and NATO have been invading toward Russia for many, many years.
> The US in particular has been building a presence in the Ukraine for quite a few years.
> 
> What would the US response be if Russia was setting up military bases in Mexico and Canada?
> ...


I may be wrong, do correct me if I am wrong.
Putin, stated by these online videos  that what he is doing is not any difference from the USA, in taking what they want.
That he is doing no difference.
OK, that's one thing.
Yet, he has been telling his people how he wants to make Russia great again.
Some online. In Russia have said that he is lying to the people, as her mother and grandmother since they were backing Putin 
She said she had to say the truth to them of what she knows from an outside view of the bombings of children, women, hospitals etc. The online has been shut down to communicate by Putin to not allow his country to be able to send messages that they have to work aRound the issue 
She did not want her family going to rallies to build Putin up.
As in Rome as in America have done history books.
Of course, America dud go to war, on the defensive side which means Hilter was wrong.
Now, here is Putin, a Hilter size man 
As a online media stated the reason Putin needed Ukraine. Was because their land is drying up a lack of water.
Seems to me there must be more to this  for snow is water...
.OK, just someone wanting to feel important.
Yet. Trump was videoed saying Ukraine is corrupt with drug addicts and criminals. And he walked away with the idea that maybe Putin wants to clean it up. So he sees it as a green light.
He sure seems like his people are doing without more than him.
As is with all the adults in each country.
I feel America sees China and Russiz ganging up on us, England, Canada and a short media video saying from Sweden, that they will be next.
Sounds familiar something like Germany based True Story from history....


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## Judycat (Mar 31, 2022)

To me it feels like Vlad is pleased to just flatten a city landscape. It doesn't have to make sense. It only has to happen.


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## mellowyellow (Mar 31, 2022)

President Volodymyr Zelensky said that two Ukrainian generals have been stripped of their rank because they turned out to be traitors. Andriy Olehovych Naumov and Serhiy Oleksandrovych Kryvoruchko are no longer generals.


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## Autumn72 (Mar 31, 2022)

Can someone go over to Russia with bombs and tell everyone it's for the Nazi cleanups which is what Putin is telling his people that is why they are bombing Ukraine.
The young Russian woman told her mother and grandmother not to go to anymore rallies for Putin.
She said she stays because of them.


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## mellowyellow (Mar 31, 2022)

Russian President Vladimir Putin has his highest approval rating among Russians since September 2017, according to a poll released Wednesday by the independent Moscow-based Levada Center, indicating the popularity back home for the Russian leader soared since the launching war on Ukraine.


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## mellowyellow (Apr 1, 2022)

The US state department said in a statement on Friday that the US will continue to provide support to Ukraine, and won’t push the country to make concessions in negotiations with Russia. The statement comes after the Times reported that a senior UK government source said Britain was concerned that the US, France and Germany were “over-eager” and will push Ukraine to “settle” in a peace deal.

US officials denied that claim.


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## David777 (Apr 2, 2022)

Although many world news services have reported on yesterday's EU and China major meetings, only one under Google Search, Newsweek (oops!), reported what China Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson related was their position on the Ukraine War.  Supposedly that same view has dominated China social media for a month and to some extent in India media too, together half the world's population.  Tends to indicate Western media bias on not reporting what has arguably been the primary reason Kremlin militarists stupidly acted as one expert related "sprung the bear trap".  That noted, since neocon objectives have now been more than successful demonizing Russia, making certain Ukrainians will hate Russians for decades, greatly scaring all other eastern European nations on possible Kremlin aggression, and greatly increasing Western public horror at Russia's destructive and murderous actions, I would expect at least a cease fire soon but probably not a full withdrawal.

https://www.newsweek.com/china-calls-us-leading-instigator-russia-ukraine-conflict-1694354

snippet:

_China called the U.S. the "leading instigator" of the ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine on Friday. During a daily press conference, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said, "As the culprit and the leading instigator of the Ukraine crisis, the US has led NATO in pursuing five rounds of eastward expansions in the next two decades or so since 1999."..._


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## Lavinia (Apr 2, 2022)

How can Putin now end this conflict without losing face....this is the situation he now finds himself in. 
When the Second World War ended, Hitler and his henchmen regarded it as just an interlude. Evidence has been found that they planned to renew their intention to dominate Europe. We must take care that the Russians don't have the same plan.


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## Autumn72 (Apr 2, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> How can Putin now end this conflict without losing face....this is the situation he now finds himself in.
> When the Second World War ended, Hitler and his henchmen regarded it as just an interlude. Evidence has been found that they planned to renew their intention to dominate Europe. We must take care that the Russians don't have the same plan.


However, they do have their plans as the idea is IMHO find us weak because of China's instigation to bring USA to their humble knees.
 Or at least that was their plan and who should kick up their plans following the China's game of eliminations to boot all in their agreement to take over the WORLD just like HITLER.
FUNNY HOW Russia believes Putin is trying hard to drive the Nazi's from Ukraine on closing all communications outside of Russia from the norm of people in suspense.
The film of the boys legs and boots on the ground in front of the hospital hidden behind a plastic covering to shield others from the horrors of what Putin has forced his soldiers to commit murder on children 
For the boy is dead because no one could make Hitler/Putin stop his greed for more.
The point is that he wants a better farm and gas takeover stating America is sticking their nose in when the war would had been won by Putin 
Not good enough, as children lay dead. Just another view
It makes me sick to think all this corruption of the world is still among adults not happy with what they already have


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## SeniorBen (Apr 2, 2022)

There are probably four possibilities of how this mess will unravel...

Putin will claim victory and rights to the land Russia currently controls in the east and southeast Ukraine as well as Crimea and claim his objectives have been realized. He'll tell Russians that they won the war and life will go on as it was before the invasion, although with an economy decimated by the sanctions. This is probably the most likely scenario. How long he'll remain in power will be up to the Russian people.
Putin will continue to try to conquer Ukraine. His military may try to regroup and then maybe step up the attacks, but this is unlikely because Russia doesn't have enough spare parts for its weapons to keep up the fight and its suppliers — mainly China and Japan — are no longer willing to sell him electronic equipment. Russia is a backward nation without semiconductor manufacturing capabilities beyond basic processors, so they're screwed in that respect.
The Russian military turns on Putin and removes him from power.
Putin feels his back is against the wall and he uses chemical or nuclear weaponry just to go out with a bang, so to speak.


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## mellowyellow (Apr 2, 2022)

Putin must find a way to back out gracefully - and I can't really see one.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 4, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> Russian President Vladimir Putin has his highest approval rating among Russians since September 2017, according to a poll released Wednesday by the independent Moscow-based Levada Center, indicating the popularity back home for the Russian leader soared since the launching war on Ukraine.


I can't understand why.  He is a big time mass murderer to the rest of the world.  He should be horribly ashamed.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 4, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> Putin must find a way to back out gracefully - and I can't really see one.


Me either.


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## spectratg (Apr 4, 2022)

Russia will now be concentrating its forces in the south and east of Ukraine.  I think that was their objective all along! However, they had expected to do more damage in the north and west before repositioning, although what they did do is terrible.  The damage done to the people of Ukraine is horrific and continues!  Yes the mass murderer Putin should and must be taken out, pure and simple.  What an evil human being.


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## SeniorBen (Apr 4, 2022)

World leaders should be calling on Putin to _get out of Ukraine NOW! Your mission has failed. We may show mercy on you only if you pull all your troops out NOW!_

I don't hear any of that kind of talk, though. Leaders are talking about putting Putin on trial for war crimes, but nobody's telling him to get out. WTF? Sometimes it helps to state the obvious.


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## Pepper (Apr 5, 2022)

@SeniorBen 
Putin can't be told out, he already was.  He must be pushed out and that equals WWIII.  I'm not willing to take that step at this point.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 5, 2022)

Pepper said:


> @SeniorBen
> Putin can't be told out, he already was.  He must be pushed out and that equals WWIII.  I'm not willing to take that step at this point.


It would undoubtedly be a very scary step and our leader is well aware of that.


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## squatting dog (Apr 6, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> Putin must find a way to back out gracefully - and I can't really see one.


Easy. If Ukraine gives up The Donbas region. 
It has been trying to rejoin Russia since 2014. It would give Putin a warm water port he has been wanting and allow him to save face.


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## Manatee (Apr 6, 2022)

Putin, a former KGB thug, wants to restore the USSR of which Ukraine was part.


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## mellowyellow (Apr 6, 2022)

*Why Russia is trying to encircle Ukraine's east*

_......................."The key is that it has been identified by the Kremlin as a Russian-speaking part of Ukraine that is more Russia than Ukraine," says Sam Cranny-Evans of the Royal United Services Institute.

These areas may be broadly Russian-speaking, but they are no longer pro-Russian. "Mariupol was one of the most pro-Russian cities in Ukraine and to level it is beyond my comprehension," says defence specialist Konrad Muzyka, head of Rochan Consulting……… https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60938544_


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## David777 (Apr 8, 2022)

The below article is an example of how those with the pro Western view of the war are increasingly putting pressure on social media and news media to block any information that runs counter to their narrative.  

China is Russia's most powerful weapon for information warfare
https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-russias-most-powerful-weapon-103842525.html
snippets:

_With over a billion followers on Facebook alone, China's state-controlled channels offer Russian President Vladimir Putin a powerful megaphone for shaping global understanding of the war - often called a "special operation" in line with Kremlin rhetoric...
Fox News and other right-leaning American outlets also have picked up Russia's talking points...
China is, by far, the Kremlin's biggest promoter, however. The top four Chinese outlets - CGTN, Global Times, Xinhua News and T-House - command a massive audience with a combined follower count on Facebook of 283 million, according to research from the nonprofit Center for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH). All told, Chinese outlets on Facebook have over 1 billion followers, according to the Alliance for Securing Democracy - far more than the roughly 85 million total followers for Russia's main channels...
Chinese media also began to take up neo-Nazi storylines, according to ASD. Chinese diplomats and state media have tweeted about Nazis more than 140 times since the start of the war, according to the tracker...
Lately, China has focused more attention on blaming NATO for the conflict, researchers say. A recent Facebook post from T-House, a millennial-focused outlet, compared Ukraine's potential membership in NATO to Hitler's attempt to conquer Ukraine, according to research by the Center for Countering Digital Hate. "The moves by the US-led #NATO have pushed the #Russia-Ukraine tension to the breaking point," said a recent tweet by China's ambassador to the Asia-Pacific region...
Stamos, who once was Facebook's chief security officer, argued that social media companies should not give a megaphone to state media outlets from countries, such as China, where free speech is suppressed. Russia would now also fall into that category, he said._
---------------------

Of course just within China and India that means over half the world population is open to any news and social media that means the West isn't able to fully control their narrative.  It is true that the Russian side is far more controlled with propaganda but also that Western side has spouted biased news also.  As I noted after coming up to speed with what it is about I had known squat about, Western media has most tried to clamp down on any *neutral Ukraine no NATO* conversation that has always been the primary excuse Russia used to invade that was actually a trap by western militarists sacrificing Ukraine in a proxy war that has very successfully fulfilled their goals with Zelenski later admitting they mislead him. NATO and the Industrial Military Complex is once again being funded and old Cold War warmongers once again have a victory against their hated rival. That his job has been to provide and push death and destruction atrocities Western media can use to demonize Russia so much that Western people will ignore the no NATO neutral arguments. 

The other Russia goal of purging Ukraine of fascists has always had a level of truth that one can readily read about on expert historical links I've already posted. There is a reason Ukraine has been considered among the most corrupt governments for decades. However Russia has greatly exaggerated their influence and really just wants Ukraine led by a pro Russian government. At this point as peace talks get more serious, they undoubtedly understand they will never purge Ukraine of not only fascists and pro Western politicians but also that the whole Ukrainian population for another generation will hate them greatly.

At this point the no NATO neutral Ukraine narrative is entrenched in China and India social media that will gradually leak over time into the Western public's understanding of the global game played, critical of those in control. Just as happened in other recent wars the US has been involved in.  Ukraine has been sacrificed and the war should have been avoided by neutrality agreements.


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## Paco Dennis (Apr 8, 2022)

David777 said:


> The below article is an example of how those with the pro Western view of the war are increasingly putting pressure on social media and news media to block any information that runs counter to their narrative.
> 
> China is Russia's most powerful weapon for information warfare
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-russias-most-powerful-weapon-103842525.html
> ...


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## Ruthanne (Apr 11, 2022)

I saw where now Russia has a new top military man who is said to be treacherous.  What's new?


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## Ruthanne (Apr 11, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


>


War is never acceptable IMO.


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## CarolfromTX (Apr 11, 2022)

Of course Putin has high approval ratings. Who in their right mind would say anything against him? Only someone with a death wish.


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## Pepper (Apr 11, 2022)

I'm afraid Ukraine will be slaughtered.  I can't get them out of my mind.


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## mellowyellow (Apr 11, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I'm afraid Ukraine will be slaughtered.  I can't get them out of my mind.


I can't either Pepper
A recent survey conducted between February 28 and March 3 when the reality of the war was already apparent, found that around 58 percent of Russians approved of the invasion of Ukraine, while just 23 percent opposed it. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blo...tin-most-russians-support-the-war-in-ukraine/


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## mellowyellow (Apr 11, 2022)

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Monday that Russia's unprovoked war with Ukraine is "meant to put an end" to US-led global domination and the expansion of NATO, according to a report


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## RadishRose (Apr 11, 2022)

I've read Putin has been ill for awhile now with Parkinson's and possibly cancer. He's very puffy, possibly from steroids. I don't recall where I saw these bits, but any truth to them?

When was the last time he was seen in public?

The invasion was botched and I don't think he expected that.

Oh, there will be all kinds of rumors; propaganda or not.

As far as Russian people backing the invasion of Ukraine, when did the Russians ever get more than lies and half-truths?

 I saw one of Putins goons on an interview who flatly denied there were bodies lying in the street in Bucha. The interviewer was aghast. The whole world saw these photos, but Putin's guy denied them!


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## Don M. (Apr 11, 2022)

The Russian army has failed in it's attempt to quickly capture the Ukraine.  They will Not make the same mistakes Twice.   Now, Putin has put a  viscous General in charge, and they are amassing a huge convoy of tanks and armament that will unleash even more Hell on Ukraine.  The Russian army has been humiliated in it's first attempt, and resorted to human carnage.  The next wave will make the current situation in Ukraine seem minor, in comparison, to what awaits Ukraine in the near future.    

Putin has reached the point where his Ego will override anything resembling common sense....and he will Not stop until he either captures Ukraine, or drags the entire world into a nuclear war.


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## RadishRose (Apr 11, 2022)

God help the people of Ukraine.

They called that new general "The Butcher of Syria".

You're absolutely right Don when you say "_Putin has reached the point where his Ego will override anything resembling common sense_"


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## Michael Z (Apr 11, 2022)

Ukraine is rich with resources. Since Ukraine was once swallowed up by the Soviet Empire, Putin feels he has the right to take it back. And he is using tactics and propaganda quite similar to what Hitler used. It is not justified in any way.


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## David777 (Apr 11, 2022)

As I've related since the invasion began, there is one dominant reason that is no secret, that the West avoids mentioning that is still key to ending the conflict.  It is why the Kremlin had an arguable excuse to invade whether valid or not.  Such an excuse has been dominant in China and India media.  Russia has strongly protested NATO expansion for 2 decades and some NATO and militarists expected Russia would invade if they could get Ukraine politicians to provoke the Kremlin war monsters enough with the threat of expansion.  Zelenski has been admitting he was played.  Unfortunately Ukraine has been horribly sacrificed for the sake of warmongers and at this point they are much worse off versus what could have been a diplomatic solution last year of a neutral Ukraine.


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## dseag2 (Apr 11, 2022)

Putin has now brought in a new Commander, who oversaw the bloodshed in Syria.  Not good.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...eneral-alexander-dvornikov-ukraine-commander/


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## David777 (May 3, 2022)

Very interesting at this point in the war that the Vatican has now become publicly open about the same warmonger military industrial complex view this person who understood little about the war as it began, came to understand by studying history links on the decades old game being played out.  The Vatican obviously was quiet about that media suppressed perspective given the dominant narrative being strongly pushed in Western Europe and the US, but that has become stale as it has evolved as neither side expected resulting in considerable ongoing death and destruction while greatly raising up goals warmongers on all sides pursue.  

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pope-francis-says-nato-started-135952616.html
snippets:

_“I [Pope] feel that before going to Kyiv, I must go to Moscow,” he told Corriere Della Sera in an interview that ran Tuesday. But the meeting would not exactly be to condemn Putin, based on what he told the paper. He said that the real “scandal” of Putin’s war is _*“NATO barking at Russia’s door,”*_ which he said caused the Kremlin to “react badly and unleash the conflict.”...

Francis repeated comments he has made in general audiences and in other interviews that the war is nothing more than a giant opportunity for a “trade in arms” and that it is still ongoing because of the constant shuttling of weapons to Ukraine. He has spoken twice by phone to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, but mostly to _*urge him not to fight back.*_ He also went to the Russian embassy to the Holy See days after the invasion began to “register his concerns” about what was happening.

“I don’t know how to answer—I’m too far away—the question of whether it is right to supply the Ukrainians,” he told the paper. “The clear thing is that weapons are being tested there. The Russians now know that tanks are of little use and are thinking of other things. This is why wars are waged: to test the weapons we have produced. Few people are fighting this trade, but more should be done.”

Francis veered toward conspiracy theory as _*he blamed the international community for instigating the war.*_ “You cannot think that a free state can make war on another free state,” he said. “In Ukraine, it seems that it was others who created the conflict. I am pessimistic but we must do everything possible to stop the war.”_


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## Murrmurr (May 3, 2022)

David777 said:


> As I've related since the invasion began, there is one dominant reason that is no secret, that the West avoids mentioning that is still key to ending the conflict.  It is why the Kremlin had an arguable excuse to invade whether valid or not.  Such an excuse has been dominant in China and India media.  Russia has strongly protested NATO expansion for 2 decades and some NATO and militarists expected Russia would invade if they could get Ukraine politicians to provoke the Kremlin war monsters enough with the threat of expansion.  Zelenski has been admitting he was played.  Unfortunately Ukraine has been horribly sacrificed for the sake of warmongers and at this point they are much worse off versus what could have been a diplomatic solution last year of a neutral Ukraine.


The purpose of NATO is to safeguard the freedom and security of all its members by political or military means.

I don't understand why you think Ukraine shouldn't be free to join NATO if it wants to. Russia has a history, too, you know.


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## Mitch86 (May 3, 2022)

Malthus argued that an* exponentially growing population will self-correct through war, famine, and disease*. Malthus cautioned that in order to avoid catastrophe such as famine and war, people should enact deliberate population control, such as birth control and celibacy.

War IS necessary unless population control is mandated by laws enacted by all the countries on the planet or at least most of them.  A two child limit to all families would end the necessity of war.


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## Pepper (May 3, 2022)

@Mitch86
Neither Ukraine nor Russia is overpopulated.


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## David777 (May 3, 2022)

Am certain you have already read what I posted with a list of links weeks ago when the war began that you chose to disagree with which is fine. Anyone can go back and review those posts. I have little incentive to re-post as I care little if what I post changes any member's opinion including yours.   Anything posted on this modest web board will have infinitesimal effect on the war.  

What is interesting to me is how people view the war given a balance of information presented, that is a small reflection on what is going on nationally and globally.  The amusing thing is your question is the same canned deflection change the subject response game, those with Western media power respond with instead of engaging with why well before the conflict began, the Kremlin exhaustively drew a line in the sand against their fear that given hostile political powers in Ukraine, such would lead to nukes close to their borders.  The Vatican brain trust apparently saw through that narrative too.


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## Murrmurr (May 3, 2022)

David777 said:


> Am certain you have already read what I posted with a list of links weeks ago when the war began that you chose to disagree with which is fine. Anyone can go back and review those posts. I have little incentive to re-post as I care little if what I post changes any member's opinion including yours.   Anything posted on this modest web board will have infinitesimal effect on the war.
> 
> What is interesting to me is how people view the war given a balance of information presented, that is a small reflection on what is going on nationally and globally.  The amusing thing is your question is the same canned deflection change the subject response game, those with Western media power respond with instead of engaging with why well before the conflict began, the Kremlin exhaustively drew a line in the sand against their fear that given hostile political powers in Ukraine, such would lead to nukes close to their borders.  The Vatican brain trust apparently saw through that narrative too.


Is that meant for me? If it is, what hostile powers in Ukraine are you talking about....the Russian tanks and soldiers that rolled into Donbas 8 years ago, who ignored the Russia-Ukraine cease-fire agreement?

The purpose of Russia's invasion isn't only about NATO, Putin wants Ukraine completely disarmed. No army, no self-protection whatsoever, no western military alliances. Complete neutrality and an iron-clad promise to stay that way. What business is it of Russia's if Ukraine has a military? It's a free country. 

Putin says he's "de-Nazifying" Ukraine. What Nazi's is he talking about? Figments of propaganda. I'll bet there are more Nazis in the US than there are in Ukraine.


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## mellowyellow (May 4, 2022)

Ukraine’s Intelligence: Russia plans to hold military parade in Mariupol on May 9. Intelligence Directorate reported that Russia is conducting “preparations for the parade,” by cleaning central streets from debris, unexploded ordnance and removing the bodies of those killed.


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## squatting dog (May 4, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Putin says he's "de-Nazifying" Ukraine. What Nazi's is he talking about? Figments of propaganda. I'll bet there are more Nazis in the US than there are in Ukraine.



Azov is a far-right all-volunteer infantry military unit of the Ukrainian army whose members, estimated at 900- 2500 are ultra-nationalists and accused of harbouring neo-Nazi and white supremacist ideology.
The unit was initially formed as a volunteer group in May 2014 out of the ultra-nationalist Patriot of Ukraine gang, and the neo-Nazi Social National Assembly (SNA) group. Both groups engaged in xenophobic and neo-Nazi ideals and physically assaulted migrants, the Roma community and murdering people opposing their views.

As a battalion of the Ukrainian army, the group fought on the front lines against pro-Russian separatists in Donetsk, the eastern region of Ukraine. Just before launching the invasion, Putin recognised the independence of two rebel-held regions from Donbas.


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## Murrmurr (May 4, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Azov is a far-right all-volunteer infantry military unit of the Ukrainian army whose members, estimated at 900- 2500 are ultra-nationalists and accused of harbouring neo-Nazi and white supremacist ideology.
> The unit was initially formed as a volunteer group in May 2014 out of the ultra-nationalist Patriot of Ukraine gang, and the neo-Nazi Social National Assembly (SNA) group. Both groups engaged in xenophobic and neo-Nazi ideals and physically assaulted migrants, the Roma community and murdering people opposing their views.
> 
> As a battalion of the Ukrainian army, the group fought on the front lines against pro-Russian separatists in Donetsk, the eastern region of Ukraine. Just before launching the invasion, Putin recognised the independence of two rebel-held regions from Donbas.


I believe there's a militant group called Azov in Pakistan, fighting to get Chinese/CCP interests out of Pakistan so they can get back their ports and mining/mineral rights and stuff.

I'll have to look into the SNA. The xenophobia neo-Nazi you mentioned could be a mischaracterization. What migrants came into Donbas? Asians? I'll look into it. 

In any case, still not Putin's business whatsoever. No more than unrest in the USA is the queen of England's business. Aside from voicing sympathy or disapproval, England wouldn't even _think_ of sending military ships and planes here to "help" quell civilian uprisings and stuff. That's BS.


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## squatting dog (May 4, 2022)

While Russia is not a bright example of good governance in the post-Soviet space, and with Russia's vast natural resources, it can hardly be compared to Ukraine on a meaningful basis.
But Belarus can! Belarus is the perfect example of good governance in the post-Soviet space; not only did Belarus lacked the natural resources that Russia or even Ukraine have, it was in a worse starting position than Ukraine was, yet the Belorussian GDP per capita adjusted by PPP has more than doubled in comparison with the Ukrainian one!

So, despite all the chauvinistic Ukrainian propaganda, the Ukrainians themselves have not been good administrators of their country.

Now, the neo-Nazi groups in Kiev controlled Ukraine have a greater influence than their actual numbers, thereby explaining why the government can't control them. In Kiev regime controlled Ukraine, journalists and others are more likely to die than in Russia, when it comes to disagreement with the given official line.

So, here's my peak into the future... Russia gets Donbas and Crimea. Ukraine loses these territories. The former is the industrial heartland of the country, while the latter is both a resort and a geopolitical strategic point which partially keeps NATO out of the Black Sea. The West is stuck with a bankrupt government to feed, and to deal with the Neo-Nazis groups they helped spawn to overthrow a democratically elected government.


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## mellowyellow (May 4, 2022)

Russia's military said it would open humanitarian corridors from the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol on May 5, 6 and 7 to allow civilians to leave the facility. Corridors would be open between 8am to 6pm Moscow time


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## Murrmurr (May 4, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> While Russia is not a bright example of good governance in the post-Soviet space, and with Russia's vast natural resources, it can hardly be compared to Ukraine on a meaningful basis.
> But Belarus can! Belarus is the perfect example of good governance in the post-Soviet space; not only did Belarus lacked the natural resources that Russia or even Ukraine have, it was in a worse starting position than Ukraine was, yet the Belorussian GDP per capita adjusted by PPP has more than doubled in comparison with the Ukrainian one!


That's a poor comparison (imo). One of the reasons Belarus's GDP is good as it is because they don't owe a bunch of money to any countries besides Russia. And Russia has to keep propping up their economy, which has greatly improved their poverty level, but their economic growth is anemic because their state-run industries are archaic.


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## mellowyellow (May 4, 2022)

Russian shipping firm Sovcomflot is planning to sell up to one-third of its vessels to pay back loans before Western sanctions come into effect, Lloyd's List reported on Monday selling at least 40 of its 121 ships.


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## mellowyellow (May 4, 2022)

UK Minister of Defence *Ben Wallace* said it would be "inconceivable" that Britain would not defend Finland and Sweden if either of the countries were attacked, whether they had joined Nato or not.

Wallace made the comments at a joint press conference with Finnish Minister of Defence, *Antti Kaikkonen* (Cen) in Helsinki on Wednesday.


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## mellowyellow (May 4, 2022)

Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida and his Italian counterpart, Mario Draghi, agreed Wednesday that their countries will fully support the government and people of Ukraine facing Russia's aggression.


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## mellowyellow (May 4, 2022)

The first Ukrainian forces learning how to use a new U.S.-based weapons system have returned home after being trained in Grafenwoehr, Germany, defense officials said Wednesday. A second wave is currently being trained, according to Brig. Gen. Joseph Hilbert, commander of the 7th Army Training Command.


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## mellowyellow (May 4, 2022)

Patriarch Kirill: "Russia has never attacked anyone"

Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All, head of the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia


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## Murrmurr (May 4, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> The first Ukrainian forces learning how to use a new U.S.-based weapons system have returned home after being trained in Grafenwoehr, Germany, defense officials said Wednesday. A second wave is currently being trained, according to Brig. Gen. Joseph Hilbert, commander of the 7th Army Training Command.


I didn't know this. Thanks for posting it.


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## Remy (May 6, 2022)

OMG   

Pro-Kremlin separatists erect Russian road signs in Mariupol (nypost.com)


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## Remy (May 6, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> I can't either Pepper
> A recent survey conducted between February 28 and March 3 when the reality of the war was already apparent, found that around 58 percent of Russians approved of the invasion of Ukraine, while just 23 percent opposed it. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blo...tin-most-russians-support-the-war-in-ukraine/


I don't know if they are that ignorant, brain washed or just afraid. Reminds me of the old Eastern Block. People did not speak up. Didn't live there but my mother was from behind the block and still had her sister there.


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## Knight (May 6, 2022)

Seems like Russia's concern is if the Ukraine joins NATO that will pose a danger of nuclear weapons on it's border.  Meanwhile Russia with nuclear weapons has no problem threatening to use it's nuclear weapons. 

Kind of hypocritical thinking on the part of Russia.


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## RadishRose (May 6, 2022)

Knight said:


> Seems like Russia's concern is if the Ukraine joins NATO that will pose a danger of nuclear weapons on it's border.  Meanwhile Russia with nuclear weapons has no problem threatening to use it's nuclear weapons.
> 
> Kind of hypocritical thinking on the part of Russia.


You said it brother!


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