# Osteoarthritis - need help



## StarSong (May 9, 2019)

Have any of you  with osteoarthritis found something that helps prevent it from cropping up in new joints or minimizes its progression? I have it in a few knuckles and am hoping to avoid the  rest of them going south.  Docs can't do much besides recommending  ibuprofen or acetaminophen when they're painful.  

I'd love to get some help with meds, supplements and/or alternative healing routes.  

Thanks in advance.


----------



## rgp (May 9, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Have any of you  with osteoarthritis found something that helps prevent it from cropping up in new joints or minimizes its progression? I have it in a few knuckles and am hoping to avoid the  rest of them going south.  Docs can't do much besides recommending  ibuprofen or acetaminophen when they're painful.
> 
> I'd love to get some help with meds, supplements and/or alternative healing routes.
> 
> Thanks in advance.




 As I recently said to another here.......There is @ this time no real help. It will spread, mine started in my left hip. Now it is in the right one as well, along with left knee & right shoulder. It has also created spinal stenosis. [narrowing of the spinal canal].... And that puts unwanted pressure on the nerves that pass through it. Note.....they ALL pass through it...The latest is ankylosing spondylitis....affecting the curvature of the spine....[creating a bent over posture].

All of this has come over me since the fall of 2015. Hints of it earlier...but not nearly as debilitating, as it is now.

 Short of surgery...[which would mean several] I have tried *EVERYTHING*...up to & including stem cell procedure . Nothing helps, or slows it's progression. 

 I get by with NSAIDS ....Tylenol & Indomethacin.....but take note....they only take the edge off the pain... they do not stop it. A heating pad can help...temporarily .

The docs say that the rheumatoid arthritis meds do not/will not help with OA, as such they will not prescribe them .

It is truly a rock & hard place situation.........

I wish you the very best......


----------



## SeaBreeze (May 9, 2019)

Years back I was told I had Osteopenia after a hip xray, the told me to increase my calcium supplement intake, but I actually dropped taking any calcium supplements, get enough from diet, plus don't want calcification in my arteries giving me strokes.

I have been taking MSM with Glucosamine, Magnesium, omega 3 fish oil and vitamin k2....also Turmeric/Curcumin.



> Posted on:
> Wednesday, December 19th 2012 at 5:00 am
> Written By:
> *Sayer Ji, Founder
> ...


_

Turmeric is very good for inflammation and pain, full article about it here._


----------



## StarSong (May 9, 2019)

RGP, thank you for the (brutal) honesty.  My mother had spinal stenosis so I know how cripplingly painful that condition can be, though I didn't realize that it might be connected to osteoarthritis.  I'm so sorry that you have this is so many areas of your body.  

I find that the pain is sometimes relieved by heat and other times a cool damp cloth helps.  As you said though, it only eases the pain a bit, it doesn't stop it or the joint swelling.  I went to a RA specialist who ruled out RA and concurred with your doc that the meds don't cross over.


----------



## hollydolly (May 9, 2019)

I'd love to know also, Star song, because 4 of my knuckles are already affected in a ugly way with nodules at the knuckles nearest to  my nails ... and I can see it happening in the other fingers  as I look at them..

My doctor said to me, your fingers will change and be ugly, but they won't be painful...well he was only half right..they are ugly, and some days they are very painful


----------



## JustBonee (May 9, 2019)

StarSong said:


> RGP, thank you for the (brutal) honesty.  My mother had spinal stenosis so I know how cripplingly painful that condition can be, though I didn't realize that it might be connected to osteoarthritis.  I'm so sorry that you have this is so many areas of your body.
> 
> *I find that the pain is sometimes relieved by heat *and other times a cool damp cloth helps.  As you said though, it only eases the pain a bit, it doesn't stop it or the joint swelling.  I went to a RA specialist who ruled out RA and concurred with your doc that the meds don't cross over.



Taking Epsom Salt baths is something I love to do to relieve aches and pains.


----------



## rgp (May 9, 2019)

Bonnie said:


> Taking Epsom Salt baths is something I love to do to relieve aches and pains.




 That is one thing that I have not tried.....because i do not have a bath tub, only a shower.

 I have considered the purchase of one of the "walk-in" tubs....just to try the "soak"....they are pricey though!

 And if the "soak" is another that is only temporary?.....I'm not sure it would justify the cost?


----------



## StarSong (May 9, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> Years back I was told I had Osteopenia after a hip xray, the told me to increase my calcium supplement intake, but I actually dropped taking any calcium supplements, get enough from diet, plus don't want calcification in my arteries giving me strokes.
> 
> I have been taking MSM with Glucosamine, Magnesium, omega 3 fish oil and vitamin k2....also Turmeric/Curcumin.
> 
> Turmeric is very good for inflammation and pain, full article about it here.



Thanks for the link and recommendations.  The RA doctor said that the research showed Glucosamine and MSM aren't effective, but I could try it.  I did for nearly a year but no change.  Now that I think about it though, my OA didn't get any worse during that period which is probably the best I can hope for.  Think I start that up again.  I'll also look into magnesium and vitamin K2.  I eat ground flax seed which is a great source of omega 3, and take turmeric daily.


----------



## SeaBreeze (May 9, 2019)

Starsong, I just take those things as a preventative, but using them has helped with lower back strain/pain from heavy lifting in the past and I haven't had any signs of osteoarthritis creeping up on me.  I have had a knee injury too which I believe wasn't as bad as it could have been because I was avoiding inflammation.  Magnesium oil also helped topically on the knee and Plantar Fasciitis of the foot in the past.


----------



## JustBonee (May 9, 2019)

rgp said:


> That is one thing that I have not tried.....because i do not have a bath tub, only a shower.
> 
> I have considered the purchase of one of the "walk-in" tubs....just to try the "soak"....they are pricey though!
> 
> And if the "soak" is another that is only temporary?.....I'm not sure it would justify the cost?




rgp,  it relieves, and gives a long period of comforting calm to me ... but of course, doesn't cure anything.  Great at bedtime!


----------



## SeaBreeze (May 9, 2019)

Tart Red Cherry juice is also good for osteoarthritis and other things.  Old thread here.  https://www.seniorforums.com/showth...int-Pain-and-Gout?highlight=tart+cherry+juice


----------



## Ruthanne (May 10, 2019)

I have oa all over and I drink flaxmilk with 1200 mg. omega 3 in it per cup.  I put it in my coffee.  I also use ibuprofen when in a lot of pain but try not to as it's not good for one of my health issues and I know it's not good for some other people as well with certain health issues especially.  The flaxmilk seems to help.  I get the unsweetened one.  Less calories even though the sweetened does not have a whole lot of calories.


----------



## Butterfly (May 10, 2019)

I have OA and have tried everything including acupuncture, which did help some.  Hip replacements allowed me to walk again, which is wonderful.  Otherwise, the only thing that really helps me is to keep moving.


----------



## Marie5656 (May 11, 2019)

The otc lidocaine patches seem to help some. And moving the joints helps on keeping them from getting stiff. I found that ibuprofen stopped working as well, so I take Tylenol if it is really bad


----------



## StarSong (May 11, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> I have oa all over and I drink flaxmilk with 1200 mg. omega 3 in it per cup.  I put it in my coffee.  I also use ibuprofen when in a lot of pain but try not to as it's not good for one of my health issues and I know it's not good for some other people as well with certain health issues especially.  The flaxmilk seems to help.  I get the unsweetened one.  Less calories even though the sweetened does not have a whole lot of calories.



I typically drink almond milk but will give flax milk a try.  Thanks for the suggestion.  

So far this has only appeared in the knuckles that are second down from my fingertips, but it seems that when one is prone to OA it may start appearing in other areas.  My mother suffered terribly with spinal stenosis from roughly age 80 forward and she had a much higher pain tolerance than me.  That spinal stenosis may be in my future is a terrifying prospect, what with being such a wimp and all.   



SeaBreeze said:


> Tart Red Cherry juice is also good for osteoarthritis and other things.  Old thread here.  https://www.seniorforums.com/showth...int-Pain-and-Gout?highlight=tart+cherry+juice



I tend to not be a juice drinker but after reading that thread and its links, it sure seems that tart red cherry juice is worthwhile.  Thanks for the recommendation!  I've also started taking Gucosamine and MSM again since reading your earlier suggestion.  I eat a plant based diet, including a boatload of leafy greens each day, which provides lots of K1 that the body then converts to K2, so I'm covered on that score.  How much magnesium do you take each day, SeaBreeze, or do you only use the oil?


----------



## fmdog44 (May 15, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> Tart Red Cherry juice is also good for osteoarthritis and other things.  Old thread here.  https://www.seniorforums.com/showth...int-Pain-and-Gout?highlight=tart+cherry+juice



If inflammation is the problem there are tons of foods and drinks to reduce it.


----------



## StarSong (May 16, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> If inflammation is the problem there are tons of foods and drinks to reduce it.



A few of my knuckle joints are permanently swollen - not sure if that's  inflammation or joint damage.  Sometimes they hurt a lot, sometimes they  only hurt if I squeeze them.  I haven't been able to fully fist two of  fingers for a couple of years now.  I wish I could find a way to fix them but fear there is nothing that can be done.


----------



## rgp (May 16, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> If inflammation is the problem there are tons of foods and drinks to reduce it.




 IF!...genetically a person responds to it. Nothing works for everyone.


----------



## SeaBreeze (May 16, 2019)

I would recommend trying a good magnesium oil to rub on your knuckles, regardless of the cause of the swelling and pain, it can only help IMO.  Of course, it has a high concentration of natural salts, so you can't rub your eyes with your hands if you do use it.  It's a little expensive but lasts a long time, the best quality mag oil I've used was purchased here.







8 oz">


----------



## fmdog44 (May 16, 2019)

rgp said:


> IF!...genetically a person responds to it. Nothing works for everyone.


All the more reason to try them.


----------



## JimW (May 17, 2019)

Marie5656 said:


> The otc lidocaine patches seem to help some. And moving the joints helps on keeping them from getting stiff. I found that ibuprofen stopped working as well, so I take Tylenol if it is really bad



Star, I agree with Marie that Lidocaine helps relieve the pain for a while. I have R/A and use Aspercreme with Lidocaine all the time to relieve pain in my joints including my hands and fingers. It's fairly inexpensive and I keep a bottle at work and at home. There is also the CBD balm that works well and has been discussed extensively here, but that's a bit on the expensive side. I also use grip strengtheners to help keep my hands and fingers flexible and strong. I find that daily exercise with light weights helps to keep me a bit more limber and also keeps the muscles from weakening and putting more stress on the joints. Unfortunately I've never had much luck with any of the natural remedies, (turmeric, glucosamine, fish oil etc).

Good Luck to you!


----------



## rgp (May 17, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> All the more reason to try them.



 Try?..sure why not. But I think it is irresponsible for folks to say.........eat this & you'll be fine etc. When the evidence appears to be that only a very few will have positive results.


----------



## StarSong (May 17, 2019)

I have some CBD balm but it didn't seem to help much.  Perhaps I wasn't using it regularly enough - does it build up in one's system rather than being a single-dose reliever like ibuprofen?  

I'll give magnesium oil a go.  I can afford to waste $20 if it isn't effective, if it's even slightly effective it will be well worth the cost and effort.  Thanks for the tip about not rubbing my eyes - that would be an uncomfortable lesson to learn firsthand.


----------



## JimW (May 17, 2019)

StarSong said:


> I have some CBD balm but it didn't seem to help much.  Perhaps I wasn't using it regularly enough - does it build up in one's system rather than being a single-dose reliever like ibuprofen?
> 
> I'll give magnesium oil a go.  I can afford to waste $20 if it isn't effective, if it's even slightly effective it will be well worth the cost and effort.  Thanks for the tip about not rubbing my eyes - that would be an uncomfortable lesson to learn firsthand.



The CBD balm and CBD drops don't work for everyone. The balm works great for me, but not so much for my wife. The drops didn't work for either of us. Gary O's wife had great results with the CBD oil drops. What type and strength of CBD balm were you using? Can you post a link to it?


----------



## StarSong (May 17, 2019)

https://www.leafly.com/products/details/medicine-farm-botanicals-extra-strength-dragons-blend

I purchased this while visiting Oregon.  A good friend had success with it for hip arthritis.  THC and CBD.


----------



## JimW (May 17, 2019)

StarSong said:


> View attachment 65619
> 
> https://www.leafly.com/products/details/medicine-farm-botanicals-extra-strength-dragons-blend
> 
> I purchased this while visiting Oregon.  A good friend had success with it for hip arthritis.  THC and CBD.



Do you use the 500mg or the 1000mg? I was using the 500mg balm but have had much better luck with the 1000mg.

The link below is the balm I use. I believe it's the same one that Gary'O uses as well, we both have good luck with it. It might be worth a try. 

https://www.gogreenhemp.com/collect...ng-purple-terpene-blend?variant=7358009376813

They also provide independent 3rd party test results to show the potency and ingredients are the real deal.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1643/0523/files/GO_GREEN_HEMP_19SA1_-_1_-_Potency_3.pdf?252


----------



## StarSong (May 17, 2019)

This is what my friend recommended. Not sure if I can handle something more potent because of my sensitivity to THC.  

I can't eat or smoke products with THC because I get disturbing (though apparently medically harmless) pre ventricular contractions.  These extra heartbeat are very unsettling to experience.  The balm hasn't caused them, at least not so far.


----------



## JimW (May 17, 2019)

StarSong said:


> This is what my friend recommended. Not sure if I can handle something more potent because of my sensitivity to THC.
> 
> I can't eat or smoke products with THC because I get disturbing (though apparently medically harmless) pre ventricular contractions.  These extra heartbeat are very unsettling to experience.  The balm hasn't caused them, at least not so far.



The product I linked to has no THC at all. I was surprised to see that yours does. I'm thinking your product may contain more THC than CBD oil, both are canabinoids. The balm I linked to is all CBD oil which is better for pain relief than THC.

Here's a snip of the second link I posted. As you can see the THC concentration is zero.


----------



## StarSong (May 19, 2019)

Thanks for that info, Jim.  

I've been focusing more on my OA since starting this thread and reading so many helpful replies.  Have added Glucosamine with MSM back to my daily regimen, am applying the balm regularly, have upped my intake of ground flax seeds (I sprinkle it on salads and oatmeal), and have ordered magnesium oil.

Hope something is effective and that I'm not merely tilting at windmills.


----------



## Butterfly (May 19, 2019)

I use the CBD balm and it does help me some -- not so much on my hands, though, because I don't want to get it in my eyes.


----------



## JimW (May 20, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Thanks for that info, Jim.
> 
> I've been focusing more on my OA since starting this thread and reading so many helpful replies.  Have added Glucosamine with MSM back to my daily regimen, am applying the balm regularly, have upped my intake of ground flax seeds (I sprinkle it on salads and oatmeal), and have ordered magnesium oil.
> 
> Hope something is effective and that I'm not merely tilting at windmills.



You're welcome Star! I hope you find some good pain relief with whatever you choose!


----------



## Lc jones (Jul 8, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Have any of you  with osteoarthritis found something that helps prevent it from cropping up in new joints or minimizes its progression? I have it in a few knuckles and am hoping to avoid the  rest of them going south.  Docs can't do much besides recommending  ibuprofen or acetaminophen when they're painful.
> 
> I'd love to get some help with meds, supplements and/or alternative healing routes.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I use cold compresses for my affected areas. This really helps my neck in particular which is very painful throughout the day. I hope this helps!


----------



## Keesha (Jul 9, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> I have oa all over and I drink flaxmilk with 1200 mg. omega 3 in it per cup.  I put it in my coffee.  I also use ibuprofen when in a lot of pain but try not to as it's not good for one of my health issues and I know it's not good for some other people as well with certain health issues especially.  The flaxmilk seems to help.  I get the unsweetened one.  Less calories even though the sweetened does not have a whole lot of calories.


Omega 3 from flaxseed is good. Turmeric and glucosamine sulphate is also. 
I’m all for Epsom salt baths. They work great as well as stretching. Stretching is so underrated.


----------



## StarSong (Jul 9, 2019)

Thanks, Keesha and LC.  I've instinctively discovered that cold helps sometimes and find myself searching for a cool place under my pillow to place an aching hand during the night.  Finger cot type compresses often help with the swelling and pain in the short term.  

I try to remember to sprinkle ground flaxseed on my salads, soups and morning scrambles, but with your good advice I'll be more religious about it. Didn't know it could help OA. I take turmeric daily and glucosamine MSM. Will try stretching, thanks!


----------



## Keesha (Jul 9, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Thanks, Keesha and LC.  I've instinctively discovered that cold helps sometimes and find myself searching for a cool place under my pillow to place an aching hand during the night.  Finger cot type compresses often help with the swelling and pain in the short term.
> 
> I try to remember to sprinkle ground flaxseed on my salads, soups and morning scrambles, but with your good advice I'll be more religious about it. Didn't know it could help OA. I take turmeric daily and glucosamine MSM. Will try stretching, thanks!



Your plan looks good Starsong. I think you will do well with your diet changes. I’d stop using the balm with the THC right away. If you have a sensitivity to it , it could be messing with your blood pressure and can cause heart palpitations. It can feel like a panic attack and is serious. 

Some balms are derived from low thc marijuana while others are made from hemp. You should make sure you only buy CBD products from hemp.

By the way, I am doing better with the changes I made to my diet and am pleasantly surprised so again, thanks for the help. It was the best help for that particular condition that I’ve ever had so thanks again.


----------



## Lc jones (Jul 9, 2019)

For a cold pack I use bags of frozen peas! It molds perfectly to my neck LOL


----------



## StarSong (Jul 9, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Your plan looks good Starsong. I think you will do well with your diet changes. I’d stop using the balm with the THC right away. If you have a sensitivity to it , it could be messing with your blood pressure and can cause heart palpitations. It can feel like a panic attack and is serious.
> 
> Some balms are derived from low thc marijuana while others are made from hemp. You should make sure you only buy CBD products from hemp.
> 
> By the way, I am doing better with the changes I made to my diet and am pleasantly surprised so again, thanks for the help. It was the best help for that particular condition that I’ve ever had so thanks again.



You're welcome.  Happy to have been of help.  
Agree about the balm - I stopped using it because I didn't notice any positive effects.


----------



## StarSong (Dec 19, 2019)

While wandering the web on a somewhat related thread, I stumbled over several medical journal articles and leaned that NSAIDs, including over the counter versions (aspirin, naproxen, Ibuprofen) can accelerate OA because they have an erosive effect on cartilage.  So the very meds my doctors prescribed to calm the pain of osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers may actually be worsening the condition.  

Are. You. Effing. Kidding. Me. 

Is it any wonder every third person in our generation needs joint replacements? The very meds we're told to take for pain relief are exacerbating the problem! Even more infuriating is that there has been clinical evidence of this going back to at least 1993.

Just a few of the articles on this:
http://journalofprolotherapy.com/th...itis-by-nonsteroidal-anti-inflammatory-drugs/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7821339https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12083420


----------



## rgp (Dec 19, 2019)

IMO, it is like just about anything, it either works for ya, or it doesn't.....And keep in mind that for years, eggs were killing us.

That Dr,Hauser is a huge proponent of Prolo Therapy & Stem Cell therapy.....So is his motivation pure ?

 BTW, due in large part to reading him, and other doctors of similar belief/approach....I tried both therapies .........they didn't work either.

 Currently, I am looking very deeply at Marijuana ? Really do not want to "smoke" anything, so I am considering other alternatives .


----------

