# Woman Assaulted in N.J. Staples Over Mask Issue



## win231 (Jul 31, 2020)

This situation involved TWO idiots; not just one.  If you watch carefully, the younger woman's mask was below her nose.  The older woman not only confronts her but also raises her cane at her.  Really stupid - both to confront someone over a mask, then threaten her with her cane (especially considering her health issues)  She has a fractured leg & the younger woman probably won't be charged:
Yes, I wear a mask when shopping because it's required, but I would never confront anyone who's not wearing one or not wearing one properly; it's just plain stupid.


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## applecruncher (Jul 31, 2020)

I saw on evening news. Wow.
Looks like older woman poked younger woman with cane.


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## Judycat (Jul 31, 2020)

Yeah what's she doing with her cane in the air? What's she doing picking a fight after having a liver transplant? She should be overcome with gratitude instead of threatening people in a store.


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## win231 (Jul 31, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> I saw on evening news. Wow.
> Looks like older woman poked younger woman with cane.


After watching the video a couple of times, the older woman did poke the younger woman with her cane.  I also noticed that the younger woman warned her not to do that before grabbing the cane (or her hand) & yanking her to the floor - which was an appropriate response.
I'll never understand how some people think it's OK to do something like that.  She'll have a lot of time to think about it while she recovers.
I'm reminded of the saying, _"There's no fool like an old fool."_


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## applecruncher (Jul 31, 2020)

@win231
Too bad older woman (54) was injured but SHE initiated the verbal & physical assault.

Sidebar:  liver surgery is serious. She should have asked friend, relative, etc. to make copies for her.


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## MarciKS (Jul 31, 2020)

I don't understand what it is about this that's making everyone so crazy. It's just a mask. And people are behaving like they have guns pointed at them. It's a few inches of material to wear to help prevent a deadly virus. It's no different than a halloween mask they would probably take no issue with wearing. It's paper & string for God sake!


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## Sunny (Aug 1, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I don't understand what it is about this that's making everyone so crazy. It's just a mask. And people are behaving like they have guns pointed at them. It's a few inches of material to wear to help prevent a deadly virus. It's no different than a halloween mask they would probably take no issue with wearing. It's paper & string for God sake!
> View attachment 115991



It's become a political symbol to some people. All a demagogue has to do, apparently, is attach some horrifying or ludicrous meaning to a perfectly ordinary item, and they're off and running.

I don't believe this is about the masks per se.


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## Sunny (Aug 1, 2020)

Some more thoughts on this:  The attacker was clearly more in the wrong, and I hope she gets identified by someone and arrested for assault.

But the other woman, her victim, was foolish. People's nerves are frazzled right now, and it's just plain dumb to offer criticism to a stranger, who could be nutty as a fruitcake. The store should have personnel dealing with whether masks are being worn properly, personnel who are trained in crowd control. It shouldn't be up to shoppers to criticize each other.


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## garyt1957 (Aug 1, 2020)

Hard to say without sound but it seems to me the older woman held up her cane to keep the other woman away but didn't hit her. The other woman certainly didn't need to throw her down. The younger woman also came up on the older woman when she had her back turned, startling her. I hope they charge the woman who threw the other one down.


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## RadishRose (Aug 1, 2020)

NJ has had dangerous virus spikes lately and my feeling is that the older woman was motivated to speak out because of the increase.

It does seem to me she raised her cane from fear of the younger woman. jmo.


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## jujube (Aug 1, 2020)

I've looked at the video several times.  What I see is the young woman approaching the elderly lady, possibly touching her on the arm.  The elderly lady turns around and points her cane toward the young woman, in defense.  The young woman, instead of batting the cane away, grabs the elderly lady by the hand and violently flings her to the ground.

While the elderly lady probably shouldn't have said anything to the young woman (and we don't know what she said.....it could have been a racial slur for all we know), the young woman had no reason to attack the elderly woman. 

That's my two cents, adjusted for inflation, of course.....


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## win231 (Aug 1, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Hard to say without sound but it seems to me the older woman held up her cane to keep the other woman away but didn't hit her. The other woman certainly didn't need to throw her down. The younger woman also came up on the older woman when she had her back turned, startling her. I hope they charge the woman who threw the other one down.


Not a chance.  Once you threaten someone with a weapon, the game is over.


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## Keesha (Aug 1, 2020)

jujube said:


> I've looked at the video several times.  What I see is the young woman approaching the elderly lady, possibly touching her on the arm.  The elderly lady turns around and points her cane toward the young woman, in defense.  The young woman, instead of batting the cane away, grabs the elderly lady by the hand and violently flings her to the ground.
> 
> While the elderly lady probably shouldn't have said anything to the young woman (and we don't know what she said.....it could have been a racial slur for all we know), the young woman had no reason to attack the elderly woman.
> 
> That's my two cents, adjusted for inflation, of course.....


I agree. They BOTH over reacted terribly.


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## win231 (Aug 1, 2020)

jujube said:


> I've looked at the video several times.  What I see is the young woman approaching the elderly lady, possibly touching her on the arm.  The elderly lady turns around and points her cane toward the young woman, in defense.  The young woman, instead of batting the cane away, grabs the elderly lady by the hand and violently flings her to the ground.
> 
> While the elderly lady probably shouldn't have said anything to the young woman (and we don't know what she said.....it could have been a racial slur for all we know), the young woman had no reason to attack the elderly woman.
> 
> That's my two cents, adjusted for inflation, of course.....


I consider 54 "older" but not "elderly."  But I wish people would think before they act.  When you confront someone, you have NO idea who they are, where they came from, or what they're going through.  And you know nothing about their medical or mental history.
They could have just been released or escaped from prison; they may have a mental illness, they may have been brought up in an abusive environment & may react violently to a perceived threat (as in this incident).  Or, they may be struggling financially due to loss of their job from Covid & frustrated as hell.  The older woman is damn lucky she wasn't injured further while she was on the ground.
I can tell just from the way some people are driving that they're on the edge.


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## Keesha (Aug 1, 2020)

Some people have mental disorders and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that both these women have some form of them. With the added stress of this pandemic it’s put people on edge and they aren’t acting in their best behaviour but BOTH these woman over reacted. People shouldn’t hold up their canes in anger but nor should they grab them by the arm and toss them onto the ground.


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## OneEyedDiva (Aug 1, 2020)

People are just acting so crazy these days. The older woman had no business poking the younger woman with her nasty cane. This is Jersey...you don't just put your hands (or any other object) on people. It's a violation. That cane had been all over the ground now you touch me with it?! Oh HELL to the NO! Truthfully...just out of reflexes (mine are quick), if she did it to me, I may have popped her. Am I a violent person...*NO*. But you don't touch me in a threatening manner and think you're going to get away with it. Most likely I would have used my "big voice" first though.  That usually keeps people off me.


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## 911 (Aug 1, 2020)

I don’t know how many of you have been following Dr. Fauci on his different interviews and also in the hearings that he has given testimony in. He has stated a few times that some people are doing things to others as they did during the HIV scare. We all need to do as the CDC requests and follow the guidelines. To ignore preventative measures is not a wise decision.


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## garyt1957 (Aug 2, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I agree. They BOTH over reacted terribly.





jujube said:


> While the elderly lady probably shouldn't have said anything to the young woman (and we don't know what she said.....it could have been a racial slur for all we know), the young woman had no reason to attack the elderly woman.



Why jump there?


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## garyt1957 (Aug 2, 2020)

win231 said:


> Not a chance.  Once you threaten someone with a weapon, the game is over.


Good for you tough guy. I'm not assaulting some old lady because she pointed a cane at me. Of course I'm not going to invade her space in a pandemic either.


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## Keesha (Aug 2, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Why jump there?


Because I don’t believe two wrongs make a right. You seriously think the younger woman was in the right to go ape sh*t because some crazy old woman pointed her cane at her?
They BOTH over reacted. 

So I didn’t jump anywhere. Unless my life is in SERIOUS danger, I don’t ever resort to violence. With others, it’s their FIRST line of defence. If someone pisses them off, they are instantly reaching for their gun. Someone gets shot and then everyone wonders what went wrong. 

Seriously? Get real! Was that old crazy lady really that much of a threat that she needed violently taken down? And this is coming from ‘men?’ Really?


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## Keesha (Aug 2, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Good for you tough guy. I'm not assaulting some old lady because she pointed a cane at me. Of course I'm not going to invade her space in a pandemic either.



Yes go ahead and do some chest thumping now for showing us how you’d take out some crazy old lady. 
Seriously pathetic guys.


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## win231 (Aug 2, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Good for you tough guy. I'm not assaulting some old lady because she pointed a cane at me. Of course I'm not going to invade her space in a pandemic either.


I was speaking from a legal standpoint, not a moral one.  Obviously, you don't know the difference.


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## StarSong (Aug 2, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Yes go ahead and do some chest thumping now for showing us how you’d take out some crazy old lady.
> Seriously pathetic guys.


Seems to me that @garyt1957 (post #19) was agreeing that this young woman's violent response was unwarranted, as was her invasion of the other woman's personal space.


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## Sunny (Aug 2, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Because I don’t believe two wrongs make a right. You seriously think the younger woman was in the right to go ape sh*t because some crazy old woman pointed her cane at her?
> They BOTH over reacted.
> 
> So I didn’t jump anywhere. Unless my life is in SERIOUS danger, I don’t ever resort to violence. With others, it’s their FIRST line of defence. If someone pisses them off, they are instantly reaching for their gun. Someone gets shot and then everyone wonders what went wrong.
> ...



Keesha, I suspect that Gary was answering JuJube's comment, not yours. Just guessing, but I think the question was about bringing racial slurs into it.


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## applecruncher (Aug 2, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Keesha, I suspect that Gary was answering JuJube's comment, not yours. Just guessing, but I think the question was about bringing racial slurs into it.



I agree, Sunny.

And...for a split second the Michael Drejka handicapped parking scene entered my mind.  But, very different, I know.


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## Keesha (Aug 2, 2020)

Ohhhh. Well my apologies for misunderstanding and over reacting. 
I often misunderstand things especially lately. Maybe I’m getting early dementia. Anyway, my mistake.


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## Pepper (Aug 2, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Ohhhh. Well my apologies for misunderstanding and over reacting.
> I often misunderstand things especially lately. *Maybe I’m gettkng early dementia*. Anyway, my mistake.


Well, my friend, if spelling is any indication..................  
❤
LOL, you know I love you!


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## Keesha (Aug 2, 2020)

Pepper said:


> Well, my friend, if spelling is any indication..................
> ❤
> LOL, you know I love you!


I’m on an iphone. Spelling mistakes happen often. That part is due to eyesight or lack of it


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## Knight (Aug 2, 2020)

win231 said:


> This situation involved TWO idiots; not just one.  If you watch carefully, the younger woman's mask was below her nose.  The older woman not only confronts her but also raises her cane at her.  Really stupid - both to confront someone over a mask, then threaten her with her cane (especially considering her health issues)  She has a fractured leg & the younger woman probably won't be charged:
> Yes, I wear a mask when shopping because it's required, but I would never confront anyone who's not wearing one or not wearing one properly; it's just plain stupid.


Per the reporters. It started with a verbal request by the older woman that the younger woman use the mask properly. 

1.Clearly the younger woman comes over and places her right hand on the woman's shoulder. That begins the rest of the confrontation.

2.Using full screen & the freeze or stop function it's clear the older woman raises her cane for self protection. With the frame stopped. It looks like the cane barely brushes the younger woman's right hand as the cane is raised. The rest is the violent attack by the younger woman. 

It's pretty sad blaming the older woman for speaking out about what could affect the health of others. Kind of like blaming a rape victim for being raped.

But that is where society seems to be headed. I mention that because the other patrons don't rush to aid the older woman they hang back not wanting to get involved I guess.


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## garyt1957 (Aug 2, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Because I don’t believe two wrongs make a right. You seriously think the younger woman was in the right to go ape sh*t because some crazy old woman pointed her cane at her?
> They BOTH over reacted.
> 
> So I didn’t jump anywhere. Unless my life is in SERIOUS danger, I don’t ever resort to violence. With others, it’s their FIRST line of defence. If someone pisses them off, they are instantly reaching for their gun. Someone gets shot and then everyone wonders what went wrong.
> ...


Holy cow, did you misread that. I meant why did you go the "racist comment" remark? Just because it was a black and white woman you guessed that maybe a racist comment was said.


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## garyt1957 (Aug 2, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Seems to me that @garyt1957 (post #19) was agreeing that this young woman's violent response was unwarranted, as was her invasion of the other woman's personal space.


Thank you, somebody around here can read and comprehend.


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## garyt1957 (Aug 2, 2020)

Knight said:


> Per the reporters. It started with a verbal request by the older woman that the younger woman use the mask properly.
> 
> 1.Clearly the younger woman comes over and places her right hand on the woman's shoulder. That begins the rest of the confrontation.
> 
> ...


That's how I see it, too


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## garyt1957 (Aug 2, 2020)

win231 said:


> I was speaking from a legal standpoint, not a moral one.  Obviously, you don't know the difference.


I'll bet you the old lady doesn't get charged with anything and the young one will be if she is found


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## Keesha (Aug 2, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Holy cow, did you misread that. I meant why did you go the "racist comment" remark? Just because it was a black and white woman you guessed that maybe a racist comment was said.


I didn’t mention anything racial in any of my posts. That was you that made a mistake.


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## Knight (Aug 2, 2020)

win231 said:


> Not a chance.  Once you threaten someone with a weapon, the game is over.


Pay attention to the video you posted. The younger woman put her hands on the older woman 1st. 

When did defending yourself with what you have become unreasonable.?

Then there is the small issue of if asking the younger woman to use the mask as intended is provoking then we are doomed as a society. I take it from your responses you think the older woman should give up her right to go out into public. Or speaking out about what clear is wrong.  Used to be going out was normal & a reply by the younger woman in a situation that called for an apology on her part turned into an attack that left the older woman injured.

I really hope our society doesn't get to the level you describe it to be. People afraid to speak out about something that is clearly wrong


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## garyt1957 (Aug 2, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I didn’t mention anything racial in any of my posts. That was you that made a mistake.


Yes, my bad, very sorry ,it was jujube


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## Keesha (Aug 2, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Yes, my bad, very sorry ,it was jujube


Why thank you. I really appreciate that.


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## win231 (Aug 2, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> I'll bet you the old lady doesn't get charged with anything and the young one will be if she is found


That's a bet you'd lose.  And, even if she is charged, she won't be convicted.
Either way, she is better off than the older fool who will spend months recovering from an injury that wouldn't have happened if she minded her own business.


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## Keesha (Aug 2, 2020)

Knight said:


> Pay attention to the video you posted. The younger woman put her hands on the older woman 1st.
> 
> When did defending yourself with what you have become unreasonable.?
> 
> ...


Well articulated. The young women did approach the older women first. 
Now according to doctors and the police report , that 54 year old victim had to have surgery for injuries from her brutal attack.


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## win231 (Aug 2, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Well articulated. The young women did approach the older women first.
> Now according to doctors and the police report , that 54 year old victim had to have surgery for injuries from her brutal attack.


We would know more if there was sound on the video & we could know what the older woman said to the younger woman.  So far, we do know the assault began with the older woman using the cane to poke to threaten the younger woman, which was stupid.


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## Keesha (Aug 2, 2020)

win231 said:


> We would know more if there was sound on the video & we could know what the older woman said to the younger woman.  So far, we do know the assault began with the older woman using the cane to poke to threaten the younger woman, which was stupid.


No win we can’t hear what happened but anyone  can clearly see that the young woman completely disregarded pandemic regulations by walking up to the older woman and placing her hand on her shoulder to get her attention. ( that’s right at the 59 seconds to 1 minute mark )
That’s NOT social distancing so the older woman counter acted to protect herself from this woman by raising her cane. The young woman then went totally nuts on her so ‘I’ will choose to disagree with you.
Very barbaric and unclassy for the young woman to lose it like that, but especially on an elderly lady.


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## applecruncher (Aug 2, 2020)

@Keesha 

We? Everyone?

Please speak for yourself. I agree with win231 and I'm not the only one.

But you've made your point.


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## applecruncher (Aug 2, 2020)

win231 said:


> We would know more if there was sound on the video & we could know what the older woman said to the younger woman.  So far, we do know the assault began with the older woman using the cane to poke to threaten the younger woman, which was stupid.



Some people would make her eat that cane.


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## Keesha (Aug 2, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> @Keesha
> 
> We? Everyone?
> 
> ...


Did you see me include your name?
No! Because I wasn’t referring to you. I was referring to the others who saw the young woman approach the older one first and there are many but I don’t mind even standing alone on this one.

And I originally said ‘everyone can see in the film that the young woman physically confronted the older woman first by walking up to her and touching her to get her attention. If people choose to ignore that part, then they have their own reasons.


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## Keesha (Aug 2, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> Some people would make her eat that cane.



Yes. There are many violent people sharing our earth.


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## FastTrax (Aug 2, 2020)

That was totally uncalled for. Even though the older woman did poke the younger woman with her cane which is assault she should not have thrown her to the floor, she shouldn't have touched her at all but report it to the store employees and/or the police who would make a determination based on the facts and make a decision and she would possibly have a case but now the damage is done and she has no legal defense as I see it, I'm not an attorney so that's just my opinion. I just posted some information concerning crimes against senior citizens not just 5 minutes ago in the Financial Subforum. Some individuals are not taking COVID-19 seriously and I see the instances where people are not social distancing, not wearing mask and blatantly ignoring instructional signage. But in this day and age where people are shot dead just for staring at someone. It's in everyones best interest to just avoid these types of situations by avoiding these people at all cost.


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## garyt1957 (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> That's a bet you'd lose.  And, even if she is charged, she won't be convicted.
> Either way, she is better off than the older fool who will spend months recovering from an injury that wouldn't have happened if she minded her own business.


You're a gem


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## garyt1957 (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> We would know more if there was sound on the video & we could know what the older woman said to the younger woman.  So far, we do know the assault began with the older woman using the cane to poke to threaten the younger woman, which was stupid.


What video are you watching? The young women is saying something  and pointing her finger when she walks into the older lady's cubicle/personal space. The old woman is clearly startled. The old lady doesn't hit her with the cane she raises it to maintain her distance. She then gets attacked.


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## Pepper (Aug 3, 2020)

@garyt1957 
54 is an old lady?


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## garyt1957 (Aug 3, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @garyt1957
> 54 is an old lady?


Compared to the woman who attacked her. She looked pretty darn frail to me. She was recovering from a liver transplant. She definitely wasn't a threat to anyone.


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## Knight (Aug 3, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @garyt1957
> 54 is an old lady?


Older not old. When comparing the two women what word would you use to describe the difference in age? 

Win  pointed out that there is no sound to the video. Given the violence demonstrated by the younger woman I think it's reasonable to conclude the younger woman used aggressive language as she came from behind & put her hand on the older woman. 

The younger woman was clearly wrong by not wearing her mask properly. Would this even be a discussion if the younger woman had responded by saying "Your right" & put her mask in place.  BUT NO she was the aggressor by touching and and then becoming extremely violent.  

Think about it this way. The older woman was using another copier, not likely to be affected by touching the machine the younger woman was using. Would you or win feel confident using the machine the younger woman was using with her mask not in place? Sometimes being older & conscious of what is right then speaks up to the benefit of others gets the negative responses blaming the older woman  posted here. 

As I posted before it is amazing to me how people can view the same video & come up with different views of what took place.  I'll suggest again take the time  to view the video full screen the freeze the frames where the initial contact happened then followed the action's taken.


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## Keesha (Aug 3, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @garyt1957
> 54 is an old lady?





garyt1957 said:


> Compared to the woman who attacked her. She looked pretty darn frail to me. She was recovering from a liver transplant. She definitely wasn't a threat to anyone.


Completely agree. No 54 isn’t old. I’m 60 and there’s no way that woman could sling me down like that. This woman is very frail for some reason and she most certainly was startled when approached from behind. 
The woman who didn’t want to wear her mask properly didn’t like being confronted about it and had a violent hissy fit.


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Compared to the woman who attacked her. She looked pretty darn frail to me. She was recovering from a liver transplant. She definitely wasn't a threat to anyone.


Yes, she looked frail.  Which makes her really stupid to start trouble.


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## Knight (Aug 3, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Compared to the woman who attacked her. She looked pretty darn frail to me. She was recovering from a liver transplant. She definitely wasn't a threat to anyone.


I agree. Age & her health [liver transplant] makes her much more vulnerable.  Odd that one post thought she shouldn't be out in public because of her liver transplant.  At what point does blame be placed where it belongs ?


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> What video are you watching? The young women is saying something  and pointing her finger when she walks into the older lady's cubicle/personal space. The old woman is clearly startled. The old lady doesn't hit her with the cane she raises it to maintain her distance. She then gets attacked.


That's you're editorializing.  The young woman said something and pointed her finger after the older woman said something to her.
If you don't want someone who's not wearing their mask properly near you, why would you start an argument with them that brings them closer to you?
We've all seen the same type of fools on the road who decide that someone is driving in an unsafe manner, so instead of letting them get far away, they confront them & start a road rage incident.


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## Knight (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> Yes, she looked frail.  Which makes her really stupid to start trouble.


Wrong the trouble started when wearing a mask became mandatory. Some follow  in order to comply & others don't. I'm pretty sure you've read the articles about the increase in people becoming ill from people not wearing their mask. So from what you post it seems to me you don't think mask use is needed.


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## Knight (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> That's you're editorializing.  The young woman said something and pointed her finger after the older woman said something to her.
> If you don't want someone who's not wearing their mask properly near you, why would you start an argument with them that brings them closer to you?
> We've all seen the same type of fools on the road who decide that someone is driving in an unsafe manner, so instead of letting them get far away, they confront them & start a road rage incident.


Again watch the video you posted. The older woman had her back to the younger one. The younger one approached from behind and began the confrontation.


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Completely agree. No 54 isn’t old. I’m 60 and there’s no way that woman could sling me down like that. This woman is very frail for some reason and she most certainly was startled when approached from behind.
> The woman who didn’t want to wear her mask properly didn’t like being confronted about it and had a violent hissy fit.


Yes, some people are violent.  Which makes anyone who confronts them really stupid.
And, you are mistaken & overconfident.  I'm 67, strong & in decent shape.  But I'm still 67; not 27.  A young guy could easily sling me down.


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## Knight (Aug 3, 2020)

Win your hypothetical of road rage is useful. 
1.Pointing out that the person that was in the right becomes the victim of someone elses wrongful action.

2. Failed to compare the extended negative impact of that wrongful action.
In road rage there are typically two involved. In failure to use the mask properly the potential to contaminate many others that were no where near the point of mask misuse.


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Knight said:


> Again watch the video you posted. The older woman had her back to the younger one. The younger one approached from behind and began the confrontation.


Yes, "editor."  The older woman _started_ the confrontation by saying something to the younger woman.  You are focusing on the _response_ from the younger woman to try to justify your opinion.


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## Knight (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> Yes, some people are violent.  Which makes anyone who confronts them really stupid.
> And, you are mistaken & overconfident.  I'm 67, strong & in decent shape.  But I'm still 67; not 27.  A young guy could easily sling me down.


What do you use to determine if someone will be violent? How would the older woman know that she would be attacked if she pointed out the misuse of the required use of a face mask.
I started questioning your posts. You are 67 I'm 79  should I fear you if we were to meet?


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## Keesha (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> Yes, "editor."  The older woman _started_ the confrontation by saying something to the younger woman.  You are focusing on the _response_ from the younger woman to try to justify your opinion.


Asking someone who is standing next to you to wear their mask properly isn’t a violent act. You’re vilifying the victim.


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Asking someone who is standing next to you to wear their mask properly isn’t a violent act. You’re vilifying the victim.


Confronting a stranger is foolish.  Starting an argument with a stranger is foolish.  Intelligent people think ahead & know what the possible result can be.
But hey....feel free to do the same as she did & be the mask police.  I hope you recover faster.


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Knight said:


> What do you use to determine if someone will be violent? How would the older woman know that she would be attacked if she pointed out the misuse of the required use of a face mask.
> I started questioning your posts. You are 67 I'm 79  should I fear you if we were to meet?


Depends.  Will you be wearing your mask properly?


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Knight said:


> Win your hypothetical of road rage is useful.
> 1.Pointing out that the person that was in the right becomes the victim of someone elses wrongful action.
> 
> 2. Failed to compare the extended negative impact of that wrongful action.
> In road rage there are typically two involved. In failure to use the mask properly the potential to contaminate many others that were no where near the point of mask misuse.


Thank you.  Everything I say is useful


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## Keesha (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> Then feel free to do the same as she did & be the mask police.  I hope you recover faster.


Now you’re trying to justify vilifying the victom. The older woman didn’t deserve being violently attacked and no matter how you try and spin this isn’t going to change my mind.


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## Keesha (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> Thank you.  Everything I say is useful



No it’s not  . You’re just deluded.


----------



## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Now you’re trying to justify vilifying the victom. The older woman didn’t deserve being violently attacked and no matter how you try and spin this isn’t going to change my mind.


Not necessary to change your mind.  Perhaps others who like to play mask police will read this & decide for themselves if confronting someone is worth a hospital stay.


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## Knight (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> Depends.  Will you be wearing your mask properly?





win231 said:


> Depends.  Will you be wearing your mask properly?


I asked this
What do you use to determine if someone will be violent? How would the older woman know that she would be attacked if she pointed out the misuse of the required use of a face mask.
I started questioning your posts. You are 67 I'm 79 should I fear you if we were to meet?

Try to focus on what was asked

What do you use to determine if someone will be violent? How would the older woman know that she would be attacked if she pointed out the misuse of the required use of a face mask.

Your snarky reply tells me you don't have a reply that addresses the questions.


----------



## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Knight said:


> What do you use to determine if someone will be violent? How would the older woman know that she would be attacked if she pointed out the misuse of the required use of a face mask.
> I started questioning your posts. You are 67 I'm 79  should I fear you if we were to meet?


I can't predict who will be violent & who won't.  No one can.  That's why intelligent people don't play mask police.
Starting an argument with someone draws them closer to you - much closer than the 6-feet recommendation.  And yelling at each other increases the spit, spray & breath exposure.   That's what I call "Three ways to stupid."


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Knight said:


> I asked this
> What do you use to determine if someone will be violent? How would the older woman know that she would be attacked if she pointed out the misuse of the required use of a face mask.
> I started questioning your posts. You are 67 I'm 79 should I fear you if we were to meet?
> 
> ...


See post #70.  (And I love the word "snarky.)


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## 911 (Aug 3, 2020)

I wanted to check on what New Jersey's rules were for wearing a mask while shopping before I replied. As their rules pertain to this situation, the lady wearing the mask should have been wearing it properly, (We are all aware of that.) The lady with the cane "should have" alerted a clerk and had them approach the lady not wearing her mask appropriately and not taken on that duty. Had the store requested her to wear her mask correctly and she refused, according to NJ mask rules (in this situation), she should have been shown the door. 

The way that I am reading New Jersey's rules for wearing a mask is that this is not a law, but a protocol that must be adhered to. Anyone over 2 years of age must wear a mask, unless there is a health reason why not to. If the person wearing the mask states that they cannot due to a health concern, the employee cannot ask why or ask for a doctor's note stating such and cannot be asked to leave. Everyone else must wear a mask. The mask must cover the mouth and nose. 

The video is good, but I would have liked to have had audio to go with it. The lady that threw the other lady to the ground made a serious mistake by leaving the scene. I can only speak for Pennsylvania laws, but we have a code of enforcement when someone causes another person's injury and leaves the scene, whether it was in self defense or not. We can all learn from this. Never leave the scene. 

It would be my guess that just by watching the video, the lady that threw the other lady to the ground will be charged, but I won't guess with what. Several charges come to mind, but I'll leave that up to the police. If the lady charged has any previous convictions, this won;t help her and if she is on probation or parole, this will also not help her. Shaking a cane at someone is like me shaking my fist at someone. It may, or may not be considered a threat. Sorry to be so vague, but I just need to know more facts. If this case goes to trail, your guess is as good as mine how she will be found. Juries are sympathetic to older, more frail people, so who knows what the outcome may be. 

I would imagine that someone has recognized her, but it's hard for people to get involved, so I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting for an arrest. The lady with the cane and already having health issues did a very dumb thing. I hope that she heals quickly and has learned an important lesson.


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## Knight (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> I can't predict who will be violent & who won't.  No one can.  That's why intelligent people don't play mask police.
> Starting an argument with someone draws them closer to you - much closer than the 6-feet recommendation.  And yelling at each other increases the spit, spray & breath exposure.   That's what I call "Three ways to stupid."


How do you know an argument was started? There is no sound with the video.  The older woman was making copies with her back towards the interior of the store  and the woman that attacked her.  How do you come to the conclusion they were arguing prior to the attack? 

I don't understand your thought that we should all live in fear.  I could just as easily project the older woman prior to selecting a copier in passing the younger woman said something like. "Your mask isn't in place properly."   I have no way of knowing so unlike you I'm not going to present something that isn't known.


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Knight said:


> How do you know an argument was started? There is no sound with the video.  The older woman was making copies with her back towards the interior of the store  and the woman that attacked her.  How do you come to the conclusion they were arguing prior to the attack?
> 
> I don't understand your thought that we should all live in fear.  I could just as easily project the older woman prior to selecting a copier in passing the younger woman said something like. "Your mask isn't in place properly."   I have no way of knowing so unlike you I'm not going to present something that isn't known.


Earth is not your planet of residence.


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Knight said:


> How do you know an argument was started? There is no sound with the video.  The older woman was making copies with her back towards the interior of the store  and the woman that attacked her.  How do you come to the conclusion they were arguing prior to the attack?
> 
> I don't understand your thought that we should all live in fear.  I could just as easily project the older woman prior to selecting a copier in passing the younger woman said something like. "Your mask isn't in place properly."   I have no way of knowing so unlike you I'm not going to present something that isn't known.


If the older woman said nothing, the younger woman would not have gone near her.  Since you consider common sense "living in fear," feel free to confront people who aren't wearing their mask properly.  Perhaps you'll get enough get-well cards & flowers to make it worth it.


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Asking someone who is standing next to you to wear their mask properly isn’t a violent act. You’re vilifying the victim.


No, it's not a violent act.  It's a stupid act.


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## FastTrax (Aug 3, 2020)

COVID-19 Creates Mass Hysteria

Take that you dirty Corona cooties



You put that mask on or I'll kill you



Argh get it off me



Maverick Maverick crash the jet but keep that mask on that's an order


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## garyt1957 (Aug 3, 2020)

win231 said:


> That's you're editorializing.  The young woman said something and pointed her finger after the older woman said something to her.
> If you don't want someone who's not wearing their mask properly near you, why would you start an argument with them that brings them closer to you?
> We've all seen the same type of fools on the road who decide that someone is driving in an unsafe manner, so instead of letting them get far away, they confront them & start a road rage incident.


Again, you're a gem.


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## win231 (Aug 3, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Again, you're a gem.


Likewise.  And you don't have a valid reply.


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## FastTrax (Aug 3, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Again, you're a gem.





win231 said:


> Likewise.  And you don't have a valid reply.


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## Knight (Aug 4, 2020)

This was in post #1 the video Win231 posted

Win saw this 
Quote
 If you watch carefully, the younger woman's mask was below her nose. The older woman not only confronts her but also raises her cane at her. Really stupid - both to confront someone over a mask, then threaten her with her cane (especially considering her health issues) She has a fractured leg & the younger woman probably won't be charged:"

What I saw
I saw the older woman making copies when the younger woman approached her from behind. The only visble confrontation was initiated by the younger woman.

Reasonable to turn around to see who it is. With no audio it's impossible to know what the younger woman was saying. But whatever it was once she turned around the older woman backed up putting distance between her & the younger woman. The younger woman still saying something and shaking her finger at the older woman, the distance between made it possible for the older woman to raise her cane for self defense. 

Same video with two different thoughts about what they see. 

If I saw someone with their mask not properly positioned I'd have no problem saying something. Unlike Win I don't see evil intent in the rest of America's population. 

FastTrax obviously in Win's America we can't all get along.


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## win231 (Aug 4, 2020)

Win saw this
Quote
If you watch carefully, the younger woman's mask was below her nose. The older woman not only confronts her but also raises her cane at her. Really stupid - both to confront someone over a mask, then threaten her with her cane (especially considering her health issues) She has a fractured leg & the younger woman probably won't be charged:"

What I saw
I saw the older woman making copies when the younger woman approached her from behind. The only visble confrontation was initiated by the younger woman.

Reasonable to turn around to see who it is. With no audio it's impossible to know what the younger woman was saying. But whatever it was once she turned around the older woman backed up putting distance between her & the younger woman. The younger woman still saying something and shaking her finger at the older woman, the distance between made it possible for the older woman to raise her cane for self defense.

Same video with two different thoughts about what they see.

If I saw someone with their mask not properly positioned I'd have no problem saying something. Unlike Win I don't see evil intent in the rest of America's population.

FastTrax obviously in Win's America we can't all get along.
[/QUOTE]
I see what's there.  You are seeing only what you want to see.  Even in the narrative at the beginning, the reporter says, "_After the victim asked her to wear her mask correctly."_
Watch the entire incident & at 1:20, you'll see the older woman start the confrontation by telling the younger woman to wear her mask correctly. Only then does the younger woman walk up to her & probably tell her to mind her own business.  She was only assaulted when the older woman raised her cane up.
Anyone with common sense would know that the best way to keep someone (who's not wearing their mask correctly) away from them would be not to start an argument with them.  Even less common sense:  Threatening someone with a cane, which gives the other person the right to self defense.
If you would "have no problem confronting someone over a mask issue," feel free to do so....as long as you're willing to risk injury like the fool in the video.  Not a smart way to spend our "Golden Years."


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## FastTrax (Aug 4, 2020)

www.dailyvoice.com/new-jersey/hackensack/police-fire/gotcha-arrest-made-in-staples-assault/791971/

www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/hackensack/2020/08/04/arrest-made-mask-dispute-assault-hackensack-nj--staples/3294994001/





Full video






Bedside interview


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## win231 (Aug 4, 2020)

The suspect was "Released pending a hearing."  No bail?  That should be a hint about the outcome.


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## FastTrax (Aug 4, 2020)

win231 said:


> The suspect was "Released pending a hearing."  No bail?  That should be a hint about the outcome.



You're on point with this one but I'm not familiar with New Jerseys Penal Code & Criminal Procedure Law. All I know if a person committed a crime in NYP depending on where in the station it was either AMTRAK, Long Island Railroad, New Jersey Transit or NYPD Transit Division would take the collar and the persons release from Central Booking depended on a point system depending on the seriousness of the crime or the possibility of being a flight risk he could be released with a desk appearance ticket or DAT to appear in court at a later date. I don't think the point system applied to violent felonies which aggravated assault is a violent felony. I'm not familiar with the scoring system in New York City but if it's not a felony and he still didn't get enough points he would be remanded to Rikers island until he went to court to be arraigned. It doesn't sound like this in her case. The senior citizens charge won't hold because the victim is only 54 and cane or no cane unless she is actually disabled according to the Federal Disability law under the Social Security Administration policy that ain't gonna fly either. Maybe they're looking for her to cop a plea to a lesser charge with full restitution, court cost, paying the victims medical bills, community service, a hefty fine and probation, probably a restraining order too since they both live in Hackensack. Time will tell.


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## Knight (Aug 5, 2020)

win231 said:


> I see what's there.  You are seeing only what you want to see.  Even in the narrative at the beginning, the reporter says, "After the victim asked her to wear her mask correctly."
> 
> Watch the entire incident & at 1:20, you'll see the older woman start the confrontation by telling the younger woman to wear her mask correctly. Only then does the younger woman walk up to her & probably tell her to mind her own business.  She was only assaulted when the older woman raised her cane up.



I did what you suggested looked at the video @ 1:20

Ahead of the 1:20 I saw the younger woman approach the older woman from the back. Touch the older woman on the back. The older woman turned and stepped back trapped unable to get away from the younger woman. 

I'll ask you once you understand what the word confront means. Who initiated the confrontation? Who was hostile? 

con·front
1: to face especially in challenge 

2: to cause to meet : bring face-to-face
meet (someone) face to face with hostile or argumentative intent.


You almost sound racist by expecting the younger woman to automatically be aggressive because the victim asked her to wear her mask correctly.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2020)

Knight said:


> I did what you suggested looked at the video @ 1:20
> 
> Ahead of the 1:20 I saw the younger woman approach the older woman from the back. Touch the older woman on the back. The older woman turned and stepped back trapped unable to get away from the younger woman.
> 
> ...


LOL - "Racist."  Feel free to confront anyone you want if you think it's a good idea.  After all, free speech is guaranteed by the constitution.
Perhaps the get-well cards & flowers will be worth it.


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## Knight (Aug 5, 2020)

win231 said:


> LOL - "Racist."  Feel free to confront anyone you want if you think it's a good idea.  After all, free speech is guaranteed by the constitution.
> Perhaps the get-well cards & flowers will be worth it.


I've already done like  the older woman did by asking some  <---- as in more than one person,  not confronting.  I hope you understand the difference between asking and confronting.  In case you don't. The older woman asked,  the younger confronted in a hostile manner.  The older woman in an interview stated she asked others & they complied. Why do you think the younger woman would act the way she did?

As for cards & flowers it's more likely my wife would get those upon my death caused by someone like the younger woman not wearing a mask properly than asking those that are ignorant  to wear theirs properly.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2020)

Knight said:


> I've already done like  the older woman did by asking some  <---- as in more than one person,  not confronting.  I hope you understand the difference between asking and confronting.  In case you don't. The older woman asked,  the younger confronted in a hostile manner.  The older woman in an interview stated she asked others & they complied. Why do you think the younger woman would act the way she did?
> 
> As for cards & flowers it's more likely my wife would get those upon my death caused by someone like the younger woman not wearing a mask properly than asking those that are ignorant  to wear theirs properly.


Since there was no sound on the video, you have no idea how the older woman spoke to the younger woman.
And, the interview with the older woman was one-sided.  She wouldn't tell the truth unless it supported her actions or flattered her.


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## Knight (Aug 5, 2020)

win231 said:


> Since there was no sound on the video, you have no idea how the older woman spoke to the younger woman.
> And, the interview with the older woman was one-sided.  She wouldn't tell the truth unless it supported her opinion or flattered her.


I think were even in agreeing sound would help.  No sound but no confrontation by the older woman. But finger wagging and & seeing the younger woman's mouth moving, then confronting the older woman even you could see the difference in demeanor.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2020)

Knight said:


> I think were even in agreeing sound would help.  No sound but no confrontation by the older woman. But finger wagging and & seeing the younger woman's mouth moving, then confronting the older woman even you could see the difference in demeanor.


Yes, people are different.  Which is why it's foolish to confront anyone.  You know nothing about them & you have no idea how they will react, so you're rolling the dice.


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## Knight (Aug 5, 2020)

I think based on the video it's clear who the aggressor was. Also clear who initiated the confrontation. So now it's down to what legal consequences will happen.

Legal has two sides criminal & civil. I don't think the younger woman will get away without with some form of criminal charge or charges. Then I can imagine a personal injury lawyer seeking compensation for injuries & expenses. 

What's your opinion win231?


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2020)

Knight said:


> I think based on the video it's clear who the aggressor was. Also clear who initiated the confrontation. So now it's down to what legal consequences will happen.
> 
> Legal has two sides criminal & civil. I don't think the younger woman will get away without with some form of criminal charge or charges. Then I can imagine a personal injury lawyer seeking compensation for injuries & expenses.
> 
> What's your opinion win231?


She may be charged with assault but it's unlikely she'll be convicted.  Had the older woman not raised her cane, the younger woman would be convicted - probably of felony assault with bodily injury.  Until the older woman did that, it was only a verbal dispute.  The older woman escalated the situation by threatening the younger woman with her cane.
The younger woman may also face a civil suit for damages, but I doubt either one of them can afford the legal expenses.  I also doubt an attorney would take the older woman's case pro bono.


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## applecruncher (Aug 5, 2020)

Older woman is afraid of COVID cooties, yet she thinks it's okay to poke the younger woman with her nasty cane. Defending herself?  I think not.


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## Sunny (Aug 6, 2020)

Not that I'm defending the assault against the older woman at all, but I have to wonder:  if she was that worried about Covid, what was she doing in a Staples?  Is making copies worth taking that kind of risk, if she is immuno-compromised?

Just a side issue, but still.


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## garyt1957 (Aug 6, 2020)

win231 said:


> The suspect was "Released pending a hearing."  No bail?  That should be a hint about the outcome.


The fact she was even arrested shows that the police think a crime was committed. No bail is a sign of nothing. So long as she's not considered a flight risk there's no need for bail. They know where to find her. You've been wrong on this since the beginning and you continue to double down . I really think you're happy that somebody got hurt over a mask since you're obviously so anti mask. You're a gem.


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## garyt1957 (Aug 6, 2020)

win231 said:


> Win saw this
> Quote
> If you watch carefully, the younger woman's mask was below her nose. The older woman not only confronts her but also raises her cane at her. Really stupid - both to confront someone over a mask, then threaten her with her cane (especially considering her health issues) She has a fractured leg & the younger woman probably won't be charged:"
> 
> ...


I see what's there.  You are seeing only what you want to see.  
[/QUOTE]
HaHa so your the only one who can see the truth? I think you're seeing what you want to see.


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## Knight (Aug 6, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> Older woman is afraid of COVID cooties, yet she thinks it's okay to poke the younger woman with her nasty cane. Defending herself?  I think not.


What was she supposed to do after the younger woman touched her while her back was turned. Visible but no audio the younger was shaking her hand & saying something that caused the older woman to back up and lift her cane. I didn't see the cane actually strike the older woman did you? FYI the covid-19 can kill. Cooties on the other hand are a body louse. Fear of dying from a body louse isn't what the older woman was concerned with.  




Sunny said:


> Not that I'm defending the assault against the older woman at all, but I have to wonder:  if she was that worried about Covid, what was she doing in a Staples?  Is making copies worth taking that kind of risk, if she is immuno-compromised?
> Just a side issue, but still.



What risk was she taking if others were complying with the recommendations? Has America decinded so low that asking someone to comply with actions that help contain the spread of the virus will end up in an attack?

I see an older woman doubly vulnerable going about her business as she has a right to do. Reasonably expecting others to comply with an action that is designed to help reduce the spread of covid-19. A verbal request to wear a mask properly turns into being attacked & physically harmed. Is this what the future of America is?


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## applecruncher (Aug 6, 2020)

Knight said:


> A verbal request to wear a mask properly


I didn't hear the "verbal request" and neither did you. It could have been a threat followed by a poke with her cane, which is an assault.


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## win231 (Aug 6, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> The fact she was even arrested shows that the police think a crime was committed. No bail is a sign of nothing. So long as she's not considered a flight risk there's no need for bail. They know where to find her. You've been wrong on this since the beginning and you continue to double down . I really think you're happy that somebody got hurt over a mask since you're obviously so anti mask. You're a gem.


Thank you.  I know I'm a gem.  And, if you think I'm happy that somebody got hurt over a mask, you're not much of a thinker.
I always wear my mask when it's required; whether I think it's useful or not.  This incident is a legal issue; not a mask issue.  But then.....knowing that would take thinking.


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## Knight (Aug 6, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> I didn't hear the "verbal request" and neither did you. It could have been a threat followed by a poke with her cane, which is an assault.


Did you watch the video in post #1? If yes then can you explain why the younger woman was waving her finger & her mouth was moving as she approached the older woman from behind. The older woman didn't turn around until she was touched on her right shoulder. The younger woman initiated physical contact. What was said while the younger was behind the older woman can only involve speculation.  But the video clearly shows the older woman backing away then raising her cane what to me looks like self defense.

Please post the video you saw that shows the older woman initiating 1st. physical contact.


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## win231 (Aug 6, 2020)

Knight said:


> Did you watch the video in post #1? If yes then can you explain why the younger woman was waving her finger & her mouth was moving as she approached the older woman from behind. The older woman didn't turn around until she was touched on her right shoulder. The younger woman initiated physical contact. What was said while the younger was behind the older woman can only involve speculation.  But the video clearly shows the older woman backing away then raising her cane what to me looks like self defense.
> 
> Please post the video you saw that shows the older woman initiating 1st. physical contact.


None so blind as someone who doesn't want to see.
The older woman first said something to the younger woman.  That's when the younger woman walked up to her shaking her finger.
And (FYI) you can't claim self defense when you raise a cane (or anything that can be used as a weapon) in a threatening manner) during a verbal dispute.  The only valid self-defense claim in this incident can be made by the younger woman.
Your personal opinion of wearing a mask is completely irrelevant.


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## applecruncher (Aug 6, 2020)

@Knight

Yes, I watched the video. We all did.
I'm not explaining anything to you.
You just want to argue and bicker back and forth endlessly.


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## Knight (Aug 6, 2020)

win231 said:


> None so blind as someone who doesn't want to see.
> The older woman first said something to the younger woman.  That's when the younger woman walked up to her shaking her finger.
> And (FYI) you can't claim self defense when you raise a cane (or anything that can be used as a weapon) in a threatening manner) during a verbal dispute.  The only valid self-defense claim in this incident can be made by the younger woman.
> Your personal opinion of wearing a mask is completely irrelevant.


With her back turned to the younger woman that went out of frame how exactly did the older woman say something?  Who made the 1st. physical contact?  You see the use of the cane as threatening I see it as self defense since the older woman backed up to avoid physical contact.

There is no audio so because the older woman backed up & raised her cane. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess the younger woman didn't calmly say.  " I apologize for not wearing my mask properly"  That is what a civil person would do.

Are you serious that asking a person to properly wear a mask is wrong? That words are cause for being attacked & injured?

I hope a personal injury lawyer gets involved to help the older woman get the  damages she should be paid for.


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## Aunt Marg (Aug 6, 2020)

The utterly shocking part to me, was how no one came to the elderly woman's aid (including helping her up).


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## Knight (Aug 6, 2020)

.


Aunt Marg said:


> The utterly shocking part to me, was how no one came to the elderly woman's aid (including helping her up).


I noticed that and mentioned it in my 1st. post
"But that is where society seems to be headed. I mention that because the other patrons don't rush to aid the older woman they hang back not wanting to get involved I guess. "

I got to thinking about that. Moving a badly injured person given the age and violent attack maybe helping her up could have done more harm than good. Fractured skull if her head hit the stand that she was thrown into, broken hip or back.


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## win231 (Aug 6, 2020)

Knight said:


> With her back turned to the younger woman that went out of frame how exactly did the older woman say something?  Who made the 1st. physical contact?  You see the use of the cane as threatening I see it as self defense since the older woman backed up to avoid physical contact.
> 
> There is no audio so because the older woman backed up & raised her cane. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess the younger woman didn't calmly say.  " I apologize for not wearing my mask properly"  That is what a civil person would do.
> 
> ...


Intelligent people know better than to antagonize anyone during these stressful times because they know it can lead to violence.
Being the mask police is not being intelligent.
If you're concerned that someone who's not wearing their mask properly may give you a virus, it's stupid to say anything to them that might cause them to get near you to argue with you.
If you think everyone you tell to wear their mask properly will say "Thank you for letting me know," you're not living in the real world.


----------

