# I'm over 60. Stop talking about coronavirus 'culling' me



## Becky1951 (Jun 14, 2020)

I was talking to a friend the other day about the pandemic, and we were musing about when we could end our isolation. Now that the world is beginning to reopen prematurely amid rising infection numbers, I have been thinking especially of those of us in our 60s and older. While the Covid-19 virus attacks all ages, we are among those at greatest risk.

What I realized is that we will not be back to normal for a long, long time. Others will venture out. My son (26) and daughter (22) will surely risk the threat of infection and try to resume some normalcy. But for older folks and those with pre-existing conditions, our isolation must be ongoing. We will be the last to resume activity and continue our lives.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/12/opin...ments-most-vulnerable-people-adler/index.html


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## Judycat (Jun 14, 2020)

I find that kind of talk offensive too. I hate "herd immunity" too. Why, if we see humans as just a herd of animals, it won't matter how many die. It's nature after all. The weak should die to improve the species. Ugh. Callous.


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## gennie (Jun 14, 2020)

In the mid 1980s some looked to the hiv virus to 'cull the herd' of the gay community since AIDS and certain death was the result of having the virus.  Effective treatment was developed and cautionary practices made that virus more easily controlled but even now, 40 years later, there is still no vaccine.  There is only treatment of hiv positive patients so that AIDS is not the result.  

Any virus that has ever been eradicated has been one where a vaccine will cause a mild case and that will leave immunity.  It has yet to be proven that a mild case of Covid leaves immunity nor will not leave some long lasting health issue.  It is too new.

It's possible that Covid 19 might end up in the same category as hiv - treatable but no vaccine - so until then, cautionary efforts such as masks and social distancing are our best hope to avoid it.  Those of us who remember the 80s will also remember the unknown qualities of new viruses.

The average age of the deaths here is said to be 59.


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## Manatee (Jun 14, 2020)

We are in our mid 80s, we listen when they say we are high risk.


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## win231 (Jun 14, 2020)

Judycat said:


> I find that kind of talk offensive too. I hate "herd immunity" too. Why, if we see humans as just a herd of animals, it won't matter how many die. It's nature after all. The weak should die to improve the species. Ugh. Callous.


Well, "Herd Immunity" is what we were told was the reason to get a flu shot.  The "experts" have to say something when intelligent people ask, "If the flu shot works, why do so many people get the flu when they had a flu shot?"  Herd Immunity is the best they can come up with.

When the Corona vaccine is available, we can expect the same explanation.


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## Patros (Jun 15, 2020)

win231 said:


> Well, "Herd Immunity" is what we were told was the reason to get a flu shot.  The "experts" have to say something when intelligent people ask, "If the flu shot works, why do so many people get the flu when they had a flu shot?"  Herd Immunity is the best they can come up with.
> 
> When the Corona vaccine is available, we can expect the same explanation.


I’m no medical expert, but I don’t believe that many people get the flu when they’ve had a flu shot. The flu shot prevents the flu; it doesn’t prevent you getting a bad cold or some other virus. I’ve never heard of “herd immunity” being given as the reason to get a flu shot. We are told it’s to prevent flu. Of course maybe our medical advice is more accurate in Australia.


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## Capt Lightning (Jun 15, 2020)

"But for older folks and those with pre-existing conditions, our isolation must be ongoing."

We're in our late 60's and we get really annoyed by any talk of ongoing isolation for any particular age group.  We will make up our own minds as to when the risk is low enough to allow us to do things.  Isolation based solely on age would be both unethical and illegal.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 15, 2020)

Capt Lightning said:


> "But for older folks and those with pre-existing conditions, our isolation must be ongoing."
> 
> We're in our late 60's and we get really annoyed by any talk of ongoing isolation for any particular age group.  We will make up our own minds as to when the risk is low enough to allow us to do things.  Isolation based solely on age would be both unethical and illegal.


This is not enforced isolation.  It is common sense.  Older adults and those with pre-existing conditions are less likely to recover.  It is in our best interests to continue with precautionary measures, even as things 'open up.'


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## gennie (Jun 15, 2020)

Capt Lightning said:


> "But for older folks and those with pre-existing conditions, our isolation must be ongoing."
> 
> We're in our late 60's and we get really annoyed by any talk of ongoing isolation for any particular age group.  We will make up our own minds as to when the risk is low enough to allow us to do things.  Isolation based solely on age would be both unethical and illegal.


/


Capt Lightning said:


> "But for older folks and those with pre-existing conditions, our isolation must be ongoing."
> 
> We're in our late 60's and we get really annoyed by any talk of ongoing isolation for any particular age group.  We will make up our own minds as to when the risk is low e





Capt Lightning said:


> "But for older folks and those with pre-existing conditions, our isolation must be ongoing."
> 
> We're in our late 60's and we get really annoyed by any talk of ongoing isolation for any particular age group.  We will make up our own minds as to when the risk is low enough to allow us to do things.  Isolation based solely on age would be both unethical and illegal.


The operative word is VOLUNTARY.  You must do what you feel is right for yourself but no whining if it does not work out.  With any illness, you are fine ........ until you are not.


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## Judycat (Jun 15, 2020)

Patros said:


> I’m no medical expert, but I don’t believe that many people get the flu when they’ve had a flu shot. The flu shot prevents the flu; it doesn’t prevent you getting a bad cold or some other virus. I’ve never heard of “herd immunity” being given as the reason to get a flu shot. We are told it’s to prevent flu. Of course maybe our medical advice is more accurate in Australia.


I never heard the term used until now either. It just seems a crude reference.


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## asp3 (Jun 15, 2020)

Here's an article that has a section about vaccinations and how they enable herd immunity.

https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/herd-immunity

Vaccinations can prevent the spread of diseases by helping achieve herd immunity.  There are some people who are unable to be vaccinated for certain diseases or are not old enough to be vaccinated yet.  Those of us who do get vaccinated help prevent the diseases we're vaccinated against from getting to those vulnerable people.


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## win231 (Jun 15, 2020)

asp3 said:


> Here's an article that has a section about vaccinations and how they enable herd immunity.
> 
> https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/herd-immunity
> 
> Vaccinations can prevent the spread of diseases by helping achieve herd immunity.  There are some people who are unable to be vaccinated for certain diseases or are not old enough to be vaccinated yet.  Those of us who do get vaccinated help prevent the diseases we're vaccinated against from getting to those vulnerable people.



And, if you follow the money, you'll see where the bias comes from:
"_The Vaccine Knowledge Project is funded by the _*NIHR Oxford Biomedical Research Centre*_ and the _*Oxford Martin School*_."_


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## asp3 (Jun 15, 2020)

win231 said:


> And, if you follow the money, you'll see where the bias comes from:
> "_The Vaccine Knowledge Project is funded by the _*NIHR Oxford Biomedical Research Centre*_ and the _*Oxford Martin School*_."_



Can you point out any areas of the article that are incorrect, not backed up by studies or are outright falsehoods?  Just because an organization might biased it doesn't mean that everything they put out is incorrect.


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## win231 (Jun 15, 2020)

asp3 said:


> Can you point out any areas of the article that are incorrect, not backed up by studies or are outright falsehoods?  Just because an organization might biased it doesn't mean that everything they put out is incorrect.


Even the CDC admits flu shots are "only 47% effective.  If they admit to that, you can bet it's much lower.
But, as I always say, confidence is half the battle, so if you feel protected, go for it.


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## asp3 (Jun 15, 2020)

win231 said:


> Even the CDC admits flu shots are "only 47% effective.  If they admit to that, you can bet it's much lower.
> But, as I always say, confidence is half the battle, so if you feel protected, go for it.



The article wasn't specifically about flu shots, it was about vaccinations and herd immunity in general.

Based on what you've written I do agree that flu vaccinations do not provide as much individual or herd immunity against the flu as other vaccinations do against other diseases or illnesses.  However I don't think you can say much beyond that.


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## Liberty (Jun 15, 2020)

In the greater Houston area, the hospitals are seeing regular uptick in cases... mostly younger and younger people.  Think the older folks are shying away from bellying up to the bar or eating or drinking  in closed in spaces.  Lets face it, those places can be incubators.  The bad bug says "oh boy, here comes lunch".  The thing is to know who in your up close and personal daily life does frequent them and to keep your distance accordingly.


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## StarSong (Jun 15, 2020)

Judycat said:


> I never heard the term used until now either. It just seems a crude reference.


Herd immunity is a term often used when describing the need for vaccinating children.  If all healthy children are vaccinated against measles, for instance, that protects the 5% or so who are unable to be vaccinated because of underlying medical issues.  Because so few in the school "herd" are susceptible to measles, there aren't the kind of outbreaks we experienced as children.


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## StarSong (Jun 15, 2020)

asp3 said:


> The article wasn't specifically about flu shots, it was about vaccinations and herd immunity in general.
> 
> Based on what you've written I do agree that flu vaccinations do not provide as much individual or herd immunity against the flu as other vaccinations do against other diseases or illnesses.  However I don't think you can say much beyond that.


I get a flu shot every year because even if it's only 40% effective the risk of side effects are very low.  

The few times I've had the flu, it was a miserable experience, even in my teens and again in my 20s. 
The older we get the greater its danger.


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## Liberty (Jun 16, 2020)

Think it depends on the year with the flu shot and how good they guess on the strain(s).  I've heard that 67% is pretty average for a good guess.


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## CarolfromTX (Jun 16, 2020)

It seems to me there is a difference between a flu vaccine in a normal year, and a possible Covid vaccine. The flu vaccine is more or less a guess as to which strains will be going around in a given year, whereas a Covid vaccine will be specifically targeted at Covid-19. Just a thought.


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## Sunny (Jun 16, 2020)

Unless the Covid virus starts developing "strains" of its own, perish the thought.


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## C'est Moi (Jun 16, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Unless the Covid virus starts developing "strains" of its own, perish the thought.


https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200422/Coronavirus-has-mutated-into-at-least-30-strains.aspx


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## C'est Moi (Jun 16, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> It seems to me there is a difference between a flu vaccine in a normal year, and a possible Covid vaccine. The flu vaccine is more or less a guess as to which strains will be going around in a given year, whereas a Covid vaccine will be specifically targeted at Covid-19. Just a thought.


But there are already many strains of CV-19.


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