# Codebreaker - Alan Turing



## Son_of_Perdition

Watched a movie last night called 'Codebreaker' it was a documentary about the father of computers, Alan Turing.  It leaves one to wonder how much further advanced computers and the digital age would have been if the British government had NOT taken it upon themselves to cure him of 'Homosexuality', and chemically castrate him, eventually pushing him to suicide at 41. 

 If he only would have had 20-30 more years to design and improve his inventions.


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## Denise1952

Geez, did he agree to it, he must have?  I don't think much about the "what ifs" but it must have been an interesting documentary.  I watched one on Tesla awhile back and was amazed.  I had never heard of him.


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## Son_of_Perdition

nwlady said:


> Geez, did he agree to it, he must have?  I don't think much about the "what ifs" but it must have been an interesting documentary.  I watched one on Tesla awhile back and was amazed.  I had never heard of him.


According to the movie he was arrested after he had reported a robbery at his place and it came to light that he had a male house guest, one thing let to another and  he was given the choice of prison or castration.  He chose the latter since he knew he would be abused in prison because of his preferences.  The chemical they gave him had many side effects one which affected his concentration and caused confusion.  It was permanent and he never fully regained.


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## Denise1952

He was arrested?  That sounds like bologna for sure  Very confusing, but people think they are hard on gays now, I can't imagine what it was like years ago

Terrible and sad story is what I'm hearing


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## SifuPhil

He was British - at least he didn't have any guns or knives. 

Laws against homosexuality were a very real thing in the 1950's in the UK - I think they were lumped under "indecency" laws.


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## Denise1952

Oh man, I surely didn't know that, about being illegal.  If I lived back then, I would have been in jail for sure.  Or beheaded!!  Like that joke about the sausage??


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## Pam

Son_of_Perdition said:


> Watched a movie last night called 'Codebreaker' it was a documentary about the father of computers, Alan Turing.  It leaves one to wonder how much further advanced computers and the digital age would have been if the British government had NOT taken it upon themselves to cure him of 'Homosexuality', and chemically castrate him, eventually pushing him to suicide at 41.
> 
> If he only would have had 20-30 more years to design and improve his inventions.



There's a new film about Turing due for release in November, 'The Imitation Game' which you might be interested in. Seems to have pretty good reviews. Benedict Cumberbatch takes the lead role, a good actor. in my humble opinion.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2084970/

Sorry that you just had to have another little dig about guns and knives,  Phil. As it happens, if he had a gun or knife in his possession at that time, it probably wouldn't have mattered, the laws of Restriction of Offensive Weapons didn't come in until 1959. Being a homosexual was the crime, sadly.


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## Bee

_*Sorry that you just had to have another little dig about guns and knives,  Phil.

*_Yeah! well, Phil just can't help himself.


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## Meanderer

...yeah Phil...cut that out!


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## SifuPhil

Bee said:


> _*Sorry that you just had to have another little dig about guns and knives,  Phil.
> 
> *_Yeah! well, Phil just can't help himself.



Sorry that you have such insecurities about your justice system that you have to reply.


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## Meanderer

SifuPhil said:


> Sorry that you have such insecurities about your justice system that you have to reply.


Ya gotta smile Phil...she just can't help herself!


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## Bee

SifuPhil said:


> Sorry that you have such insecurities about your justice system that you have to reply.




One thing I do not do is make  assumptions about other people...........................I have no insecurities about our justice system at all, Why should I??? but I am sick of you having a pop at the U.K. and the justice system, which in all the time I have been on this forum, I have never ever done that about the U.S. police and justice system, I have more respect for people and their feelings.


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## Bee

Meanderer said:


> Ya gotta smile Phil...she just can't help herself!



Please stop stirring it.


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## Meanderer

Bee said:


> Please stop stirring it.


Please stop stirring it.


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## Pam

Son_of_Perdition said:


> Watched a movie last night called 'Codebreaker' it was a documentary about the father of computers, Alan Turing.  It leaves one to wonder how much further advanced computers and the digital age would have been if the British government had NOT taken it upon themselves to cure him of 'Homosexuality', and chemically castrate him, eventually pushing him to suicide at 41.
> 
> If he only would have had 20-30 more years to design and improve his inventions.



Just to reiterate..... there is a new film about Turing, due for release in November. It's called 'The Imitation Game'.  Seems to have  pretty good reviews. Benedict Cumberbatch takes the lead role, a good  actor,  in my humble opinion.

I don't go to the cinema nowadays so will have to wait until it's out on DVD or shown on TV.


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## Son_of_Perdition

Pam said:


> Just to reiterate..... there is a new film about Turing, due for release in November. It's called 'The Imitation Game'.  Seems to have  pretty good reviews. Benedict Cumberbatch takes the lead role, a good  actor,  in my humble opinion.
> 
> I don't go to the cinema nowadays so will have to wait until it's out on DVD or shown on TV.


Thanks for the information, Pam.  I shouldn't have opened that can about slamming the British.  None of us have room to boast about our treatment of others in our past and present.  The reason I mentioned it was because I have been in the computer field since 1963 and never had heard of him.  I had heard of the Enigma and the race to break the code but never connected up any names to the story.  They interviewed one of founders of Apple, he gave full credit to Turing's genius and contributions.


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## Twixie

Son_of_Perdition said:


> Watched a movie last night called 'Codebreaker' it was a documentary about the father of computers, Alan Turing.  It leaves one to wonder how much further advanced computers and the digital age would have been if the British government had NOT taken it upon themselves to cure him of 'Homosexuality', and chemically castrate him, eventually pushing him to suicide at 41.
> 
> If he only would have had 20-30 more years to design and improve his inventions.



Haven't we come a long way??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30096906


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## SifuPhil

Bee said:


> One thing I do not do is make  assumptions about other people...........................I have no insecurities about our justice system at all, Why should I??? but I am sick of you having a pop at the U.K. and the justice system, which in all the time I have been on this forum, I have never ever done that about the U.S. police and justice system, I have more respect for people and their feelings.



Because you do - or do not - do a thing, does not mean I can or cannot do it.

I'm not "popping" the U.K. - I'm popping the form of legal justice that your country follows. There's a big difference.

I do the same for many U.S. policies. 

It isn't about respect for people or their feelings - it's about standing up and saying the emperor is naked. NO ONE likes that, I know, but it's what I do. A good portion of the entire world deludes itself on a daily basis that what they're doing is right, and most of the time it's based on an idea that their masters have sold to them. I look at things from a common-sense viewpoint, which rarely jibes with the party line.

Hence, it upsets people.


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## Twixie

SifuPhil said:


> Because you do - or do not - do a thing, does not mean I can or cannot do it.
> 
> I'm not "popping" the U.K. - I'm popping the form of legal justice that your country follows. There's a big difference.
> 
> I do the same for many U.S. policies.
> 
> It isn't about respect for people or their feelings - it's about standing up and saying the emperor is naked. NO ONE likes that, I know, but it's what I do. A good portion of the entire world deludes itself on a daily basis that what they're doing is right, and most of the time it's based on an idea that their masters have sold to them. I look at things from a common-sense viewpoint, which rarely jibes with the party line.
> 
> Hence, it upsets people.



In England when I was a child..anyone who was overtly homosexual was put in a lunatic asylum..either kept there forever..or given electric shock treatment in the hopes of ''curing'' them..


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## Pam

Son_of_Perdition said:


> Thanks for the information, Pam.  I shouldn't have opened that can about slamming the British.  None of us have room to boast about our treatment of others in our past and present.  The reason I mentioned it was because I have been in the computer field since 1963 and never had heard of him.  I had heard of the Enigma and the race to break the code but never connected up any names to the story.  They interviewed one of founders of Apple, he gave full credit to Turing's genius and contributions.




Not your fault, Son of Perdition. I am in full agreement with you that the way Turing was treated was appalling and that the law in the UK at that time was wrong. I am however annoyed that a comment about present day UK gun/knife policy, which has bugger all to do with Turing, was brought into this topic.

Just realised that I said the film is due out in November... and it's November now... my mind was still back in October! lol

You might find this article about The Imitation Game and Bletchley Park Codebreakers interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...ere-the-real-Bletchley-Park-codebreakers.html


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## Twixie

Actually it was the Polish who first broke the Enigma code..

http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/hist/worldwartwo/enigma.rhtm


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## Denise1952

Cumberbatch is top of my list of actors.  I first saw him in Sherlock Holmes (newest series I believe).  I literally watch for movies he's in, or will be in now


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## Meanderer

Pam, what does "bugger all" mean?


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## Denise1952

Hi Twixie,

I don't know about homosexuals, but I do know that we in the US also had those kinds of places, and treatments  Horrific, really I think doctors experimented on the mentally ill because they were like "societies" throw-aways  Someone may ask me for documentation on these acts, so maybe I better look around.

Some of the "good ole days" weren't so good were they


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## Meanderer

Here tis':

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/17/imitation-game-alan-turing-sexuality-biopic


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## Pam

Meanderer said:


> Pam, what does "bugger all" mean?



It means 'nothing' ... buy you knew that really, didn't you?  Possibly not the best wording to have used, but there you go.


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## Denise1952

I don't know if I could watch that movie, like watching Schindlers List, it breaks my heart so bad, I can't get over it.


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## Son_of_Perdition

nwlady said:


> Hi Twixie,
> 
> I don't know about homosexuals, but I do know that we in the US also had those kinds of places, and treatments  Horrific, really I think doctors experimented on the mentally ill because they were like "societies" throw-aways  Someone may ask me for documentation on these acts, so maybe I better look around.
> 
> Some of the "good ole days" weren't so good were they



Yes, humans should hang their heads in shame for some of atrocities visited upon their kind all in the name of science.  I contracted polio at age 9 in June 1954.  I was in the test group of 600,000 nationwide students that were given the sugar cube in the 'double blind' study for the Salk vaccine.  It was April 54 when the tests were going on.  I contracted polio in June 54 - 2 months later.  We had a battery of Fed/State/County health professionals at our door daily.  Everyone that showed up seemed to have a oversized needle and wanted blood samples from me and my siblings.  Finally my father put a stop to it and refused anymore tests.

 It was years later, about 20 years ago that I was contacted by a medical/legal group that were studying the possibility that the government was doing the 50's tests with children and supposedly were giving mild cases of polio to insure that there were enough cases of the ones that received the placebo would get the disease, proving that the vaccine was successful and getting it to the general public.  I actually had one vaccine supporter point out that if it was true then our sacrifice saved millions of lives.  Tell that to a 9 year old.   

 I have problems with my back and legs that may or may not be associated with my polio.  I told them, 'The damage is done and I've learned to live with it, and I have no intention of making some lawyer rich at my expense, please take my name off the list.'   I haven't heard any followup todate.


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## Denise1952

That was one of the hardest reads I've seen on here sop  I remember getting that vaccine, but I wasn't in a test group or anything.  I am so sorry for your suffering.  I've often said, the only thing wrong with our world is the people in it.  It's the good ones that make it bearable.


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## Son_of_Perdition

nwlady said:


> That was one of the hardest reads I've seen on here sop  I remember getting that vaccine, but I wasn't in a test group or anything.  I am so sorry for your suffering.  I've often said, the only thing wrong with our world is the people in it.  It's the good ones that make it bearable.



Last response, I did have a mild case.  It was like a bad case of the flu, my neck was stiff and my back was sensitive during my recovery,  I went into the 4th grade late that year.  My family doctor was an old school country doctor.  He advised my parents to not make an invalid out of me.  Treat me as normal as they can.  I played sports, participated in all the activities that other children did.  I played high school football and track, I was the slowest runner but because of my size and had hod-carried for my father in the summers I was physically competitive.  

In 1963 on a dare from my mother I joined the USAF.  I spent time answering questions about my ability to perform my duties before I was cleared to join.  I could have easily been classified 4-F if I had wanted.  In fact in June during basic my mother informed me in a letter that I had received a full ride scholarship to the university of my choice in Utah because of my handicap.  It was a state/fed sponsored award to handicap students.


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## Denise1952

Way to go, smart doctor, smart parents Proud of you, and thank you for you service, well done


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## Ameriscot

I saw the movie this afternoon. Good movie although, of course, a few of the facts are incorrect.  

As for US vs UK in their medieval treatment of gays......


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## Ameriscot

Meanderer said:


> Pam, what does "bugger all" mean?



Means nothing at all or f-ck all.


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## Meanderer

Ameriscot said:


> Means nothing at all or f-ck all.


Thanks...a real head-scratcher!


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## Warrigal

Meanderer said:


> Pam, what does "bugger all" mean?


There really is a language barrier between the English speaking world and America, isn't there?

:lofl:

Sorry Meanderer, but that question tickled my fancy. Know what I mean? :lol:


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## Denise1952

Ameriscot said:


> Means nothing at all or f-ck all.



Oh, well, I like bugger all better  So I'll be using that.


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## Denise1952

Dame Warrigal said:


> There really is a language barrier between the English speaking world and America, isn't there?
> 
> :lofl:
> 
> Sorry Meanderer, but that question tickled my fancy. Know what I mean? :lol:



I love to hear the way you guys talk, I may not understand it, but love it, and I get to hear quite a bit on BBC etc.


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## Beckinista

Interesting take on Turing in the new book "Dreamers & Deceivers" ... Answers a lot of the comments posted here. Worth the read.


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## Vala

All of our countries have done things we are ashamed of, it called hind site.  We need to get over it and get on with life.  

Ummm.......not sure I should post this, but will anyway.   While I was in Kenya I spoke quite awhile with my room attendant.  I told him about the African Ame.......and put his hands up and stopped me.  He said, "We don't call them that, they have nothing to do with Africa, we call them black Americans, you are a white American".   Then I told him about the black Americans wanting compensations for their ancestors being kidnapped and turned into slaves.  He looked so shocked....his reply was,  "but their in American, God blessed with your country and we are left over here".


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