# WWII Nazi memorabilia



## StarSong (May 26, 2018)

When I was cleaning out my parents' home, I came upon the huge Nazi flag that my father cut down from a building in Belgium during WWII.  The flag's existence had totally slipped my mind because I hadn't seen it in decades.  The swastika was obviously hand-stitched on, so this isn't anything that would be museum quality.  Nevertheless, I feel weird about throwing it out, but what's the point of keeping it?  

On a related topic, isn't it strange how up through at least WWII, many American soldiers returned home with certain "spoils of war" but apparently no longer do so.  At least I hope they don't.  Most WWII vets I knew growing up had at least some memorabilia from the war.  Stolen or not stolen?  When did the policy change?


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## Aunt Bea (May 26, 2018)

Hand stitching adds to the value of an original Nazi flag.

Do a little research online before you toss it in the trash.

I would sell it to a collector and if you don't care to profit from it donate the money to a good cause.

I have one of these old trivets hanging in my kitchen. People assume it is some sort of Nazi memorabilia but the right facing swastika was a popular symbol of good luck and family prosperity long before Hitler came along.


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## rgp (May 26, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> Hand stitching adds to the value of an original Nazi flag.
> 
> Do a little research online before you toss it in the trash.
> 
> ...




 I believe it was also the symbol for an Apache ?...Indian tribe & it was the original insignia for the 45 Infantry National guard in Oklahoma . My father's outfit in WWII. Later the Thunderbird became the insignia .And they became regular Army.


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## RadishRose (May 26, 2018)

My uncle John came home with a piece of gold jewelry, it was a locket, octagon shaped, with a small ruby set near the lower part. It had a chain. The only reason I know is because he gave it to my mother. I don't know whatever became of it.


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## jujube (May 26, 2018)

When I was a kid, the man across the street had a human skull he had brought back from WWII, somewhere in the Pacific conflict.  If he was drinking, he'd get it out and let us hold it.  Naturally, we all thought that was pretty cool.  

My dad had a lot of Japanese paraphernalia, including a Japanese telephone and lots of magazines and books.  He also brought back a Japanese dog that he had rescued as a puppy from a sinking Japanese ship.


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## Toomuchstuff (May 26, 2018)

My hubby makes WW2 model planes and he wants them to be historically accurate,so he wants the swastikas on the German ones... trouble is the model makers don't include them in the kits. He has to order the special  decals  from England . 

 One time he tried selling an old unopened  model kit of some plane  on E Bay. He mentioned that it had the swastika decals , and his ad got zapped from E Bay almost instantly because he mentioned the decals. As soon as he removed the word swastika from the ad, they let him relist it. What a commotion one word can make !


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## KingsX (May 26, 2018)

.

I also have my father's trophy flag from WW2 along with some Hitler postcards.

The flag looks like this one.  It still has the original rope attached.

http://www.reddickmilitaria.com/images/products/0120-285-012.jpg

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## KingsX (May 26, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> My uncle John came home with a piece of gold jewelry, it was a locket, octagon shaped, with a small ruby set near the lower part. It had a chain. The only reason I know is because he gave it to my mother. I don't know whatever became of it.




Octagon is a favorite Russian Orthodox design inherited from Byzantium.

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## KingsX (May 26, 2018)

rgp said:


> I believe it was also the symbol for an Apache ?...Indian tribe & it was the original insignia for the 45 Infantry National guard in Oklahoma . My father's outfit in WWII. Later the Thunderbird became the insignia .And they became regular Army.




Decades ago when I was a teenager,  we went to the famous Canton, Texas flea market.
As I walked along, there walking ahead of me was an old Indian man wrapped in a blanket.  
On the back of the blanket was a huge swastika like the one Hitler used.   It was a strange
"coincidence" because I was reading Mein Kampf at the time.

.


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## Sunny (May 26, 2018)

I remember my mother on her hands and knees stitching over the swastika pattern on our oriental rug in the living room. She liked the rug, but wasn't going to live with that Nazi symbol in the house!  I think it turned out that it was some sort of Indian pattern (from India, not American Indian.)


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## treeguy64 (May 26, 2018)

I never understood war memento collectors. Wars are horrifying to live through, horrifying to fight in. Once they're over, the sooner forgotten, the better, in my book! Nazi mementos especially sicken me, and I have to wonder why anyone wants to collect them.


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## KingsX (May 26, 2018)

treeguy64 said:


> I never understood war memento collectors. Wars are horrifying to live through, horrifying to fight in. Once they're over, the sooner forgotten, the better, in my book! Nazi mementos especially sicken me, and I have to wonder why anyone wants to collect them.




Maybe if you had fought in the war, you might feel differently.

Russia still has the captured Third Reich standards that were casted before Lenin's tomb
in Stalin's 1945 Red Army victory parade.  Putin recreates Stalin's Red Army victory parade 
bigger and better every year.  I'm surprised Putin hasn't taken Hitler's standards from the 
museum to again cast them before Lenin's tomb [which is still there by the Kremlin.]










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## KingsX (May 26, 2018)

.






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## Olivia (May 26, 2018)

> Maybe if you had fought in the war, you might feel differently.



Maybe if you had lost relatives in Nazi concentration camps!!! This is about the limit!!!!


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## Shalimar (May 26, 2018)

Olivia said:


> Maybe if you had lost relatives in Nazi concentration camps!!! This is about the limit!!!!


I agree, I have lost relatives in such camps. The memorabilia turns my stomach.


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## KingsX (May 26, 2018)

Olivia said:


> Maybe if you had lost relatives in Nazi concentration camps!!! This is about the limit!!!!




Today the final solution seems to be erasing history as if it never existed.

The Bolsheviks tried that... it doesn't work in the long term.

.


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## KingsX (May 26, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I agree, I have lost relatives in such camps. The memorabilia turns my stomach.




You should take that up with Putin. He has more of it than anyone in his museum.

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## Shalimar (May 26, 2018)

KingsX said:


> You should take that up with Putin. He has more of it than anyone in his museum.
> 
> .


 Three generations of my family fought in WW1/WW2. My grandfather was with the Canadian forces who liberated Holland. He kept pictures of the concentration camps they freed. Three quarters of the Jewish portion of my family were interred in concentration camps. All but four of them perished. Two others died serving with the Maquis in France. Such comments dishonour their sacrifice.


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## Olivia (May 26, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Today the final solution seems to be erasing history as if it never existed.
> 
> The Bolsheviks tried that... it doesn't work in the long term.
> 
> .



That was not clear. And I really didn't appreciate the Nazi pictures. But then maybe that's just me.


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## Olivia (May 26, 2018)

Well, as long as it's not political. 

Looks like I just have to overlook some things. Just like it's so much done already.


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## KingsX (May 26, 2018)

Olivia said:


> That was not clear. And I really didn't appreciate the Nazi pictures. But then maybe that's just me.





The pictures I posted were of Stalin's Soviet Red Army troops who defeated the Nazis.

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## Olivia (May 26, 2018)

KingsX said:


> The pictures I posted were of Stalin's Soviet Red Army troops who defeated the Nazis.
> 
> .



I realize that, but to me the pictures alone are just glorifying them.


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## Shalimar (May 26, 2018)

Olivia said:


> I realize that, but to me the pictures alone are just glorifying them.


Qft.


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## KingsX (May 26, 2018)

Olivia said:


> I realize that, but to me the pictures alone are just glorifying them.




Let me get this straight...

You think Stalin's Red Army troops lowering captured Third Reich standards and casting them before Lenin's tomb glorifies the Third Reich ??

Ironically, both Stalin and Hitler would disagree with you.

This raises an interesting question... 

I've never been to a Holocaust museum.  Ironically Putin has built the biggest one in the world in Moscow.

Are there no Third Reich images in such museums ??    

I would think it rather difficult to tell your story without images of your villain.

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## Olivia (May 26, 2018)

I can tell my story anyway I want!  Would you like me to post the pictures of my three great uncles killed in concentration camps? I don't even know why this kind of thread is even allowed here! What is is going on???


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## Shalimar (May 26, 2018)

Olivia said:


> I can tell my story anyway I want!  Would you like me to post the pictures of my three great uncles killed in concentration camps? I don't even know why this kind of thread is even allowed here! What is is going on???


It must be especially galling for Americans due to Memorial Day.


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## KingsX (May 27, 2018)

.

As I posted previously,  the final solution today is to erase forbidden history.

The irony is... the never-ending list of historical "villains" keeps growing... 

My own American forefathers are now caught up in that PC net and their images and history are now also "verboten."

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## Olivia (May 27, 2018)

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> As I posted previously,  the final solution today is to erase forbidden history.
> 
> ...



And I have the memory of an elephant and I do recall that according the John Birch Society of which you said you were a member propagates that the Holocaust was a hoax. You dispute that?


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## KingsX (May 27, 2018)

Olivia said:


> And I have the memory of an elephant and I do recall that according the John Birch Society of which you said you were a member propagates that the Holocaust was a hoax. You dispute that?




I was in the JBS decades ago when I was a teenager.  It is [or was] an anti-Communist organization.

I've read many of their publications... but I don't recall any of them mentioning a holocaust, except the horrific holocaust Communists committed against Christians.

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## Olivia (May 27, 2018)

KingsX said:


> I was in the JBS decades ago when I was a teenager.  It is [or was] an anti-Communist organization.
> 
> I've read many of their publications... but I don't recall any of them mentioning a holocaust, except the horrific holocaust Communists committed against Christians.
> 
> .



Oh, right. THAT holocaust. Any other holocaust you recall happening?


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## KingsX (May 27, 2018)

Olivia said:


> Oh, right. THAT holocaust. Any other holocaust you recall happening?





Oh yes, 

The horrific Muslim Turk holocaust against Armenian Christians.

Stalin's horrific starvation holocaust against Ukrainian Christians... 
and Stalin's raping/murdering Red Army conquest of half of Europe 
[I get banned from Russian forums for posting about those holocausts.
Putin has enacted a law against insulting Stalin's Red Army.]

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## Olivia (May 27, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Oh yes, the horrific Muslim Turk holocaust against Armenian Christians...
> and Stalin's horrific holocaust against Ukrainian Christians.
> 
> .



That's what I thought.


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## justfred (May 27, 2018)

Toomuchstuff said:


> My hubby makes WW2 model planes and he wants them to be historically accurate,so he wants the swastikas on the German ones... trouble is the model makers don't include them in the kits. He has to order the special  decals  from England .
> 
> One time he tried selling an old unopened  model kit of some plane  on E Bay. He mentioned that it had the swastika decals , and his ad got zapped from E Bay almost instantly because he mentioned the decals. As soon as he removed the word swastika from the ad, they let him relist it. What a commotion one word can make !



Strange not being able to buy ex Nazi symbols over there. I am a stamp collector and collecting Nazi stamps adorned with a swastika is no problem at all. I have several. Talking about bringing back trophy's from WW2. I was just thankful for coming back alive and I brought back no trophy's. I, and many more like me, wanted to put the past behind us and forget it.


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## KingsX (May 27, 2018)

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I was born in the desert of western Texas.

The little town of Marfa is also in the Texas high desert.

During WW2,  German POWs from Rommel's Afrika Korps were held at nearby Fort Russell.

The German POWs painted beautiful murals of the Texas desert scenery.

They also planted a beautiful rose garden and a vegetable garden.

They were allowed to routinely visit town.

The Germans and the Texans became friends, even joining together for Christian holidays.

After the war,  the German POWs were returned to Germany.

Later, several of the former German POWs moved back to Texas to live.
















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## justfred (May 27, 2018)

Only a very small minority of the Africa Corps were Nazi's  Most were pre war regular army personnel. I was involved with many ex POW,s from the Africa Corps and most hated Naziism and what it stood for.


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## rgp (May 27, 2018)

Olivia said:


> I can tell my story anyway I want!  Would you like me to post the pictures of my three great uncles killed in concentration camps? I don't even know why this kind of thread is even allowed here! What is is going on???



What is going on is [I hope] the freedom to discuss what [apparently] some folks choose to discuss.

 And just a note......If any horrific subject / issue / event,... falls completely from conversation. IMO it is destined to be repeated.


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## Shalimar (May 27, 2018)

rgp said:


> What is going on is [I hope] the freedom to discuss what [apparently] some folks choose to discuss.
> 
> And just a note......If any horrific subject / issue / event,... falls completely from conversation. IMO it is destined to be repeated.


I think freedom of speech, in this instance at least, would be better served if some posters had exhibited compassion toward those who lost relatives in the concentration camps.


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## StarSong (May 27, 2018)

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> 
> I was born in the desert of western Texas.
> ...



Thank you for posting this, KingsX.  My compliments to the artists and to your town for treating non-war-criminals humanely, which is how they should be treated.  Having recently toured a Japanese interment camp in California, I only wish we had been as humane with our own citizens.  

Olivia, I apologize for bringing up painful thoughts and memories.  I just figured that many in our generation must be stumbling over similar Nazi or Japanese war memorabilia and wondered how others were dispatching them.    

To be sure, most "trophies of war" brought home by young US soldiers were partly to disrespect and denigrate Nazism and the Holocaust, partly monkey-see monkey-do when other soldiers were um, liberating Germany of various items, partly youthful exuberance at having participated in the triumph over a national enemy, and partly a way to remind themselves that despite the terrible things they did and witnessed during that war, the Allies had, in fact, ultimately prevailed.      

To any who served in Korea or Vietnam, did your superior officers address the topic of swiping items from local citizens and villages?  I realize most Korean and Vietnamese villages in fighting areas were fairly poor, but still find it curious that there is such a marked difference between those wars and WWII in this respect.


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## rgp (May 27, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I think freedom of speech, in this instance at least, would be better served if some posters had exhibited compassion toward those who lost relatives in the concentration camps.



While I agree to a point...if we started editing another's speech ? Is that not impeding the very freedom of it?


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## Shalimar (May 27, 2018)

rgp said:


> While I agree to a point...if we started editing another's speech ? Is that not impeding the very freedom of it?


I think we have a cultural impasse here, as a Canadian, freedom of speech is inextricably linked to responsibilty. I am triggered by the Nazi subject matter, time for me to exit the thread. Have a great day.


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## justfred (May 27, 2018)

rgp said:


> What is going on is [I hope] the freedom to discuss what [apparently] some folks choose to discuss.
> 
> And just a note......If any horrific subject / issue / event,... falls completely from conversation. IMO it is destined to be repeated.



What has the Afrika Corps to do with the holocaust? As I said most of the Afrika Corps were in the army before Hitler came to power and were in Africa when he decided to carry out these atrocities  and very few went back to Germany till after the war as they were soundly beaten and became POWs.


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## rgp (May 27, 2018)

justfred said:


> What has the Afrika Corps to do with the holocaust? As I said most of the Afrika Corps were in the army before Hitler came to power and were in Africa when he decided to carry out these atrocities  and very few went back to Germany till after the war as they were soundly beaten and became POWs.





   You're quoting me, and I'm not sure I see the connection?

  My response was to the actual topic about Nazi memorabilia .


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## justfred (May 27, 2018)

rgp
Sorry I got the wrong quote


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## KingsX (May 27, 2018)

.

The reason Rommel's Afrika Korps were sent to the west Texas desert is because international rules decreed POWs to be housed in the same type of climate in which they were captured.

I doubt Stalin and his horrific Siberian gulags followed any rules.   Russians [who fought along side Germans to try to liberate Russia from the Bolsheviks] who had been captured and held POWs by Western allies [US & UK] were sent back to Stalin who executed them.


*Operation Keelhaul*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Keelhaul


*Repatriation of Cossacks after World War II*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Cossacks_after_World_War_II

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## Don M. (May 27, 2018)

Speaking about Nazi experiences, etc., I was afforded the opportunity to learn a bit about the people in that era.  I married a German girl when I was stationed in Germany in the early 1960's, and her Dad was a Stuka dive bomber pilot during WWII.  I don't recall ever asking him if he was a member of the Nazi party, but I suspect he was.  He often hid his "trauma" from that war in consumption of Schnapps, and sometimes when he was half looped, he would open up a bit and talk about his experiences.  He went through a bit of Hell, and was shot down two times, but managed to survive, and get back to his forces.  There was nothing about WWII that was good to Any of the people involved.  Millions of lives were wasted needlessly, and the survivors often bore lasting scars that affected them forever.  Old Heinz finally succumbed to cirrhosis of the liver, from his alcohol consumption, and his post WWII years were not pleasant.


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## C'est Moi (May 27, 2018)

I'll just toss this in; the Holocaust Museum in DC is a must-see.   (As are all the monuments on the National Mall.)


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## KingsX (May 27, 2018)

.

In 2012,  Putin dedicated the largest holocaust museum in the world in Moscow.

*Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Museum_and_Tolerance_Center


Yet, Putin totally ignores the horrific Bolshevik holocaust of millions of Christians.
In 2000, he refused to attend the canonization ceremony of Tsar Nicholas II and 
the royal martyrs [who the Bolsheviks had brutally murdered] in the newly rebuilt
Church of Christ the Savior in Moscow [that Stalin had totally destroyed.]

Also in 2012, Putin helped dedicate a Red Army victory monument near Tel Aviv.
The only one of its kind outside of the former USSR.

*Victory Monument in Netanya*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Monument_in_Netanya

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## treeguy64 (May 27, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Maybe if you had fought in the war, you might feel differently.
> SNIP!.



Ah, you mean like if I had PTSD, or had seen the human living skeletons at the concentration camp liberations? NO! I lost relatives to the Nazi animals. I view anyone who collects the garbage that was part and parcel to this failed, twisted ideology's existence as suspect, when it comes to who their heroes actually are!  That is my final comment, on this thread. I will not return to it. I am sickened by the posts of a few, in here.


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## KingsX (May 27, 2018)

treeguy64 said:


> I view anyone who collects the garbage that was part and parcel to this failed, twisted ideology's existence as suspect, when it comes to who their heroes actually are!




Maybe you can work with like-minded Austin comrades to restrict such freedoms of speech, expression and association
and have Third Reich images and Hitler's autobiography, "Mein Kampf",   banned as it is in many other draconian nations,
[like Putin's Russia.]  

 Ironically,  Germany recently allowed a carefully edited version of "Mein Kampf" to be published in Germany.  But one can
still go to jail for questioning the victor's version of WW2 history.  As Putin will tell you,  the "victor" was Stalin's Red Army.
Putin has enacted a law that makes it illegal to insult or question Stalin's Red Army [I get repeatedly temporarily banned 
from Pravda's forum for doing that.]

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## justfred (May 27, 2018)

And so it was just Hitler,s Germany and Stalin's Russia that committed atrocities. Let's be honest and open on this. The Allies were no angels at times and I could tell a few tales but the second world war is over and done with so let,s get on with sorting today,s problems. What's done is done and cannot be undone.


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## KingsX (May 27, 2018)

justfred said:


> And so it was just Hitler,s Germany and Stalin's Russia that committed atrocities. Let's be honest and open on this. The Allies were no angels at times and I could tell a few tales *but the second world war is over and done with so let's get on with sorting today's problems.* What's done is done and cannot be undone.




Today,  cultural marxists have also made the memory of my own American forefathers a "problem"...
a problem that they want to erase from society and history.  And not just my Confederate forefathers
and their legacy images... but they are also attacking anyone in the past that they now find "offensive"....
including Christopher Columbus, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. As I posted previously,
the groundwork has already been laid in other draconian nations to punish with imprisonment one's
"illegal"  personal perspective of history.  

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## Olivia (May 27, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Ironically,  Germany recently allowed a carefully edited version of "Mein Kampf" to be published in Germany.  But one can
> still go to jail for questioning the victor's version of WW2 history.



And what is the victor's version of WW2 in your opinion? What about it do you dispute?  Do you believe that the Allies liberated Hitler's concentration camps? Do you even believe there were concentration camps and that 6 million Jews were exterminated? Or any at all?


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## KingsX (May 27, 2018)

Olivia said:


> And what is the victor's version of WW2 in your opinion? What about it do you dispute?  Do you believe that the Allies liberated Hitler's concentration camps? Do you even believe there were concentration camps and that 6 million Jews were exterminated? Or any at all?




There's an old famous saying... "The victors of the war write the history."

When I was in college,  I took special honor student  history courses that viewed history from the losers' perspective.

What I dispute is anyone who seeks to restrict an individual's right to the freedom to question the "victor's" version of history.

No one appears to care if anyone questions the history of Napoleon's wars... not even Russians whose capital city, Moscow, was invaded and occupied by Napoleon's French troops.

Up until recently, the ONLY war where the "victor's version of history" is protected by LAW in many European nations is WW2, the war that Putin says was won by Stalin's Red Army victors.

But today, another war has been added to that PC list... the American Civil War.  Now the images of MY Confederate forefathers are officially condemned and banned as have been the images of the Third Reich in Europe.

This progression of erasing images and history that some might find offensive that continues today is part of the cultural marxist social revolution that began in Western nations after WW2.

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## rgp (May 27, 2018)

Olivia said:


> And what is the victor's version of WW2 in your opinion? What about it do you dispute?  Do you believe that the Allies liberated Hitler's concentration camps? Do you even believe there were concentration camps and that 6 million Jews were exterminated? Or any at all?



Was i there ? No, am I an expert ?...again No but.........

 My father was withe the 45th infantry Thunderbirds , part of Patton's 3rd Army. They along with the 42nd Rainbow division were the liberators of Dachau. I have photos of him there...as well as others. I do not doubt for one moment the atrocities history holds on record. 

He [my father] wasn't one to talk too much about WWII and his role in it. But when i was a young man, he did explain Dachau, & what he saw there.

Long story but, one aspect of it I do recall was his witnessing the reaction of the townspeople that were forced to come see what had been happening at the camp...As he said...they had to know...the smell alone permeated the air, the trees...he said hell, even the ground itself.

So...do {I} believe it all happened?....Sadly I do indeed.


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## Olivia (May 27, 2018)

My question to you was:

_And what is the victor's version of WW2 in your opinion? What about it do you dispute? Do you believe that the Allies liberated Hitler's concentration camps? Do you even believe there were concentration camps and that 6 million Jews were exterminated? Or any at all?

_Your answer below. Looks like you answered it. 




KingsX said:


> There's an old famous saying... "The victors of the war write the history."
> 
> When I was in college,  I took special honor student  history courses that viewed history from the losers' perspective.
> 
> ...


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## KingsX (May 27, 2018)

.

How many Jews may or may not have been killed during WW2 appears to be the special interest of others here... it's not mine.   I do know that there were at least a half of million Jews in Stalin's Red Army [most of the camps referenced here were in Stalin's Red Army occupation zone.]

But I will say this,  forcing others to obey draconian laws that forbid an opinion contrary to the official victor's version of history... will make it self-fulfilling prophecy.

My interest is to promote the freedom to discuss any part of the history and NOT be jailed in Europe for breaking a law because of an opinion contrary to the victors.

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## Camper6 (May 27, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Decades ago when I was a teenager,  we went to the famous Canton, Texas flea market.
> As I walked along, there walking ahead of me was an old Indian man wrapped in a blanket.
> On the back of the blanket was a huge swastika like the one Hitler used.   It was a strange
> "coincidence" because I was reading Mein Kampf at the time.
> ...


Interesting but check it out. Are they exactly the same? For instance one is right to left and the other is left to right. It's an ancient symbol.


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## justfred (May 28, 2018)

Olivia said:


> And what is the victor's version of WW2 in your opinion? What about it do you dispute?  Do you believe that the Allies liberated Hitler's concentration camps? Do you even believe there were concentration camps and that 6 million Jews were exterminated? Or any at all?



I am not saying that. Yes Both Hitler and Stalin committed horrific crimes against fellow humans, Far worse crimes than any other nation has committed in history. What I am saying is that some of our Allies were not squeaky clean either. I clearly remember, (Maybe it was a fake film  maybe it was not) Allied soldiers sat on a river bank with a machine gun. Across the river from a building emerged five German soldiers waving a white flag and with their arms raised in surrender. They were mown down by the men with the machine gun. Although this is a minor incident compared to the horrors of the extermination camps it should not have happened.


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## KingsX (May 28, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Interesting but check it out. Are they exactly the same? For instance one is right to left and the other is left to right. It's an ancient symbol.




I know there are differences in swastikas. As I posted, the huge swastika on the old Indian man's blanket was exactly like Hitler's swastika.

The swastika was also used as a hidden stylized cross by early persecuted Christians,  Ironically, now it is the swastika that is persecuted.

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## Sunny (May 28, 2018)

> How many Jews may or may not have been killed during WW2 appears to be  the special interest of others here... it's not mine.   I do know that  there were at least a half of million Jews in Stalin's Red Army [most of  the camps referenced here were in Stalin's Red Army occupation zone.]



No, KingsX, it is not the "special interest" of any particular group.  It must be the interest of us all.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."  George Santayana

(And whatever number of Jews "may or may not" have been in Stalin's Red Army -- huh?  What on earth has that got to do with the number of people killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust?  Gives a new meaning to 
the term "Red Herring!")

And justfred, yeah, right. So six million Jews (and six million others!) were killed by the Nazis in their murderous rampage.  But you clearly remember seeing a film (which by your own words, may have been a fake) where 5 German soldiers were shot by the allies. So it all comes out even; both sides were wrong?

Unbelievable.


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## StarSong (May 28, 2018)

It's hard to believe that questioning the Holocaust is where this topic has landed.  

I started this thread in hopes of learning how others managed (unwanted) inherited Nazi memorabilia.  Were they conflicted because these items were part of our fathers' war experience and may have some historical value?  When did the practice of taking war trophies home end?  Indeed has it ended at all?  Now that I think about it (and I may be incorrect on this) the US hasn't been on the winning side of a major ground war since WWII.  

Only a couple of posters addressed any of these questions.  

After watching the quite disturbing, if thinly veiled, antisemitism of some here, I have found my own answer.  I'll phone the quite excellent Los Angeles Museum of Tolerance for some direction on this.  My suspicion is that the Nazi flag will become acquainted with my trash can very shortly.   

How disturbing some of the sentiments expressed here would be for many American men who fought to stop Nazism and release prisoners from those concentration camps.  That I write these words on Memorial Day feels particularly apt and poignant.  

p.s.  All of the American soldiers that I knew who served in the ETO - and I grew up around many - were quite clear about the horrific intent of the Nazi's Final Solution and the terrible losses of life, health, dignity, personal peace and/or possessions inflicted on the Jewish people by that regime.  Gypsies, homosexuals and the disabled were also targeted as being "impure" and therefore unworthy of either life or freedom among the "master race", but the Nazis' primary targets were the Jewish people and their primary aim was annihilation.


----------



## Sunny (May 28, 2018)

Starsong, I wouldn't throw it in the trash can just yet. The Los Angeles Museum of Tolerance may give you some good answers. I also think you might contact the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC.  I went to their web site and found this, as a starting point. The Nazi flag could be a part of their permanent exhibit, if they don't already have one.

https://www.ushmm.org/online/form/contact-the-museum/input


----------



## justfred (May 28, 2018)

Sunny.
In my book anyone who kills one person in cold blood is just as guilty as anyone who kills a thousand.


----------



## Traveler (May 28, 2018)

There is a huge difference between those idiots who collect nazi memoribilia becuase they admire such behavior, and the memoribilia owned by those who were proud to say, "I helped beat the bastards."

We all must remember that The Nazi's were not the only ones who committed mass murder in the millions. Though such information is suppressed by the Communists, and the Cultural Marxists here in America, Stalin actually murdered more people than did Hitler. 

Anyone who denies that the Holocaust happened, is an uneducated idiot. We, however, we also must remember that Josef Stalin murdered far more.


----------



## KingsX (May 28, 2018)

Sunny said:


> No, KingsX, it is not the "special interest" of any particular group.  It must be the interest of us all.
> 
> "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."  George Santayana




Really?

Is the 20th century Armenian holocaust when millions of Armenians were massacred of special interest to you?  

Is the 20th century Russian holocaust when millions of Russians were massacred of special interest to you?

Is the 20th century Ukrainian holocaust when millions of Ukrainians were intentionally starved to death of special interest to you?

I bet most Americans have never heard of these Christian holocausts.  

What most people care about is what the mass media tells them to care about.

.


----------



## StarSong (May 28, 2018)

Traveler said:


> There is a huge difference between those idiots who collect nazi memoribilia becuase they admire such behavior, and the memoribilia owned by those who were proud to say, "I helped beat the bastards."
> 
> We all must remember that The Nazi's were not the only ones who committed mass murder in the millions. Though such information is suppressed by the Communists, and the Cultural Marxists here in America, Stalin actually murdered more people than did Hitler.
> 
> Anyone who denies that the Holocaust happened, is an uneducated idiot. We, however, we also must remember that Josef Stalin murdered far more.



Agreed.  Sad to say there have been a number of unspeakably horrific political leaders who've been responsible for intentionally murdering millions of their own citizen.  In the 20th Century alone, Hitler, Stalin, Leopold II (Belgian Congo), Pol Pot and Turkish leaders (Armenian genocide) come immediately to mind.  This planet has spawned no shortage of powerful bloodthirsty men.


----------



## Olivia (May 28, 2018)

StarSong said:


> Agreed.  Sad to say there have been a number of unspeakably horrific political leaders who've been responsible for intentionally murdering millions of their own citizen.  In the 20th Century alone, Hitler, Stalin, Leopold II (Belgian Congo), Pol Pot and Turkish leaders (Armenian genocide) come immediately to mind.  This planet has spawned no shortage of powerful bloodthirsty men.



Not to dispute any of that. Just that the subject of this thread was about Nazi memorabilia. I don't understand the diversion to make it seem like no big deal about Nazi's and their intent of that genocide as opposed to other genocides.


----------



## Traveler (May 28, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Really?
> 
> Is the 20th century Armenian holocaust when millions of Armenians were massacred of special interest to you?
> 
> ...




Excellent point. Many people, perhaps most people, have little knowledge of the real world. If such people happen to stumble across information that does not support their slanted, uneducated views of the world, they will ignore that info and act as if it does not exist.

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the public at large.


----------



## Olivia (May 28, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Excellent point. Many people, perhaps most people, have little knowledge of the real world. If such people happen to stumble across information that does not support their slanted, uneducated views of the world, they will ignore that info and act as if it does not exist.



Just goes to show the Nazi extermination of Jews is just a little blip in history, is that it?  My great uncle was ready to board a ship to New York City in France. But that wasn't good enough for the Nazi's. They didn't want Jews to just leave Europe, they wanted to exterminate every last one.


----------



## Shalimar (May 28, 2018)

No one went broke underestimating the narrowness of xenophobic minds either. Fascinating what goes into creating such a mindset. Currently coauthoring a book about it. There have been, and continue to be terrible 

genocidal periods in history, all are important. But this thread deals with  Nazi memorabilia, their flag is a glaring representation of all those who suffered and often died under their brutal regime. It is incredibly 

insensitive to brush this aside in order to discuss other brutalities, particularly since some of us have Jewish ancestors affected by the Final Solution. To do so reeks of antisemitism, and violates the rules as carefully laid out by admin.


----------



## Traveler (May 28, 2018)

The Nazi's created the most unimaginable hell on earth for Jews, Poles, Comminists, homosexuals, gypsies, dissidents, and many other groups*.  BUT,* *IT WAS NOT THE ONLY HOLOCAUST THAT HAS HAPPENED IN WORLD HISTORY. THE 20TH CENTURY ALONE, IS RIFE WITH THE KILLING FIELDS.*


----------



## KingsX (May 28, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Excellent point. Many people, perhaps most people, have little knowledge of the real world. If such people happen to stumble across information that does not support their slanted, uneducated views of the world, they will ignore that info and act as if it does not exist.
> 
> No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the public at large.




The irony is...  as i posted here previously,  in 2012 Putin dedicated a huge Jew holocaust center in Moscow, the largest in the world.

Yet he is dead silent about the millions of Christian Russians and Ukrainians [Russian citizens at the time]  who were brutally murdered en masse by Bolsheviks.   In 2000, he refused to attend the canonization of Tsar Nicholas II and his royal family [who were also martyred by Bolsheviks] at the newly rebuilt Church of Christ the Saviour in Moscow.   But then,  Putin was KGB and has expressed regret at the demise of the USSR.

.


----------



## Olivia (May 28, 2018)

Traveler said:


> The Nazi's created the most unimaginable hell on earth for Jews, Poles, Comminists, homosexuals, gypsies, dissidents, and many other groups*.  BUT,* *IT WAS NOT THE ONLY HOLOCAUST THAT HAS HAPPENED IN WORLD HISTORY. THE 20TH CENTURY ALONE, IS RIFE WITH THE KILLING FIELDS.*



NO ONE has said it was or is! But this thread is about Nazi memorabilia. And I'll keep saying that until doomsday here if I have to as long as using other atrocities is used to brush off the Final Solution by Hitler!


----------



## StarSong (May 28, 2018)

Shalimar and Olivia, thank you for pointing out how easily deflections can move our focus from the matter at hand.  I apologize for participating in the distraction.  

It's likely that the Holocaust greatly affected the lives of most on this forum since today's Seniors grew up with adult family members, friends, neighbors, and relatives who were WWII veterans.  To those who lost family members in the Holocaust I offer my sincerest condolences.  I cannot begin to imagine your anger and pain from such a horrific cruelty.


----------



## Traveler (May 28, 2018)

My support of the Israeli nation is well documented. Any implication that I do not feel great sympathy for the Jews and shame that that a so-called Christian nation (Nazi Germany) could create the holocaust, is dishonest and the lowest form of debate.


----------



## Olivia (May 28, 2018)

The topic of this thread is about Nazi memorabilia and what they represent about Hitler's Final Solution for the genocide of Jews.


----------



## Shalimar (May 28, 2018)

StarSong said:


> Shalimar and Olivia, thank you for pointing out how easily deflections can move our focus from the matter at hand.  I apologize for participating in the distraction.
> 
> It's likely that the Holocaust greatly affected the lives of most on this forum since today's Seniors grew up with adult family members, friends, neighbors, and relatives who were WWII veterans.  To those who lost family members in the Holocaust I offer my sincerest condolences.  I cannot begin to imagine your anger and pain from such a horrific cruelty.


Thank you, and the deflections in this thread cause us great pain. You do not need to apologise, I know you are not antisemitic.


----------



## KingsX (May 28, 2018)

StarSong said:


> It's hard to believe that questioning the Holocaust is where this topic has landed.




Which holocaust ?

There have been many 20th century holocausts.

Are you referring to the only one that has special legal protection in many nations...
where questioning it is illegal... and many have gone to prison for questioning it ?
How many here would also favor the USA passing laws to make questioning it illegal .

.


----------



## Shalimar (May 28, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Which holocaust ?
> 
> There have been many 20th century holocausts.
> 
> ...


Please stop derailing this thread. Should you wish to discuss other holocausts, you have the opportunity to start a thread which deals with them.


----------



## Sunny (May 28, 2018)

Putin dedicated a "huge Jew holocaust center in Moscow?"  What the hell is a Jew holocaust center?  Just your coinage of that expression reeks of Nazi rhetoric, kingx.  

If you are referring to the Holocaust Memorial Synagogue in Moscow, built to stand alongside a mosque and a church to memorialize ALL the innocent victims of the Nazis, you've got the name of the building,
and the date, dead wrong. Why am I not surprised? You've managed to get the point of this thread dead wrong also.  (Or maybe not. Putting the blame for the Holocaust squarely where it belongs makes you
uncomfortable, apparently. Why is that?)

Here's a link about this memorial synagogue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_Memorial_Synagogue_(Moscow)



> No one went broke underestimating the narrowness of xenophobic minds  either. Fascinating what goes into creating such a mindset.



Shalimar, indeed. Well put.


----------



## KingsX (May 28, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Please stop derailing this thread.




You and Olivia first brought up the subject on page one... and now you want to manipulate responses to be only to your liking.    THAT is the very point I have tried to make here. Many European nations have made it a CRIME punishable by prison for anyone to say or post any response on the subject that you first brought up that is not in tune with the victors' version of history [ie, not to your and Olivia's liking.]  I'll wager that you would like such draconian laws passed here.

.


----------



## Sunny (May 28, 2018)

> What most people care about is what the mass media tells them to care about.



You mean all those Jew media, eh, kingx?


----------



## justfred (May 28, 2018)

Back to the original post.
I was in Italy towards the end of WW2 and when it was all over I, and many like me, wanted to forget and so brought nothing that would remind us of the past with us. It was over and finished with. I do however still have a Kukri that was presented to everyone in my regiment who served alongside the brave little man from Nepal, the Gurkha after three years working alongside them in Malaya in 1948.


----------



## Traveler (May 28, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Please stop derailing this thread. Should you wish to discuss other holocausts, you have the opportunity to start a thread which deals with them.





KingsX said:


> You and Olivia first brought up the subject on page one... and now you want to manipulate responses to be only to your liking.    THAT is the very point I have tried to make here. Many European nations have made it a CRIME punishable by prison for anyone to say or post any response on the subject that you first brought up that is not in tune with the victors' version of history [ie, not to your and Olivia's liking.]  I'll wager that you would like such draconian laws passed here.
> 
> .



This thread is* NOT* about the holocaust. It is about Nazi memorabilia. It evolved into a wide-ranging discussion. This thread is therefore open to man's inhumanity to man. I see no valid reason why any person who wishes to discuss that inhumanity shouldn't be allowed to.


----------



## Traveler (May 28, 2018)

Sunny said:


> You mean all those Jew media, eh, kingx?




Character assassination is being a troll. KingsX never said any such thing. Don't try to put words in her mouth. 
Low form of debate !


----------



## Olivia (May 28, 2018)

Traveler said:


> This thread is* NOT* about the holocaust. It is about Nazi memorabilia. It evolved into a wide-ranging discussion. This thread is therefore open to man's inhumanity to man. I see no valid reason why any person who wishes to discuss that inhumanity shouldn't be allowed to.



Except when they're used to specifically dismiss the one Holocaust that Nazi memorabilia represents. And I'm not saying that was you.


----------



## KingsX (May 28, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Character assassination is being a troll. KingsX never said any such thing. Don't try to put words in her mouth.
> Low form of debate !




Maybe Sunny thinks I'm [former] VP Biden traveling incognito ??

.


----------



## Traveler (May 28, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Maybe Sunny thinks I'm [former] VP Biden traveling incognito ??I .



I don't know *what *she is thinking.  There are, however, some people who specialize in making rude, personal attacks and who delight in nasty innuendo. No names mentioned but they are quite obvious.

They think they are being clever but all they are actually doing is demonstrating their inability to engage in debate.


----------



## Shalimar (May 28, 2018)

KingsX said:


> You and Olivia first brought up the subject on page one... and now you want to manipulate responses to be only to your liking.    THAT is the very point I have tried to make here. Many European nations have made it a CRIME punishable by prison for anyone to say or post any response on the subject that you first brought up that is not in tune with the victors' version of history [ie, not to your and Olivia's liking.]  I'll wager that you would like such draconian laws passed here.
> 
> .


Your hostility is misplaced. I have no desire to see such laws passed in America or Canada. This thread is not a platform for the inequities of Putin or anyone other than Nazi Germany. By all means discuss such things in another thread. The OP herself has expressed distaste at the way this thread has warped. Unlike Traveler, You  have not shown one iota of compassion towards those affected by The Final Solution. That is your choice, but it reeks of antisemitism. Those of us who have lost loved ones in said Holocaust find that hurtful.


----------



## Shalimar (May 28, 2018)

A





Traveler said:


> Character assassination is being a troll. KingsX never said any such thing. Don't try to put words in her mouth.
> Low form of debate !


With respect, it was implicit in what she posts, she also puts words in Olivia and mine, re supposedly wanting the same rules in our countries as applies in some European ones re denying the  Holocaust.


----------



## Shalimar (May 28, 2018)

justfred said:


> Back to the original post.
> I was in Italy towards the end of WW2 and when it was all over I, and many like me, wanted to forget and so brought nothing that would remind us of the past with us. It was over and finished with. I do however still have a Kukri that was presented to everyone in my regiment who served alongside the brave little man from Nepal, the Gurkha after three years working alongside them in Malaya in 1948.


Gurkhas are amazing. Arguably the finest warriors in the world.


----------



## KingsX (May 28, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> That is your choice, but it reeks of antisemitism.




That is another term that people like to throw around to try to force others to conform
to whatever their ideology and agenda is.

The irony is... the word, Semite,  does not have an actual racial or religious meaning.
The word is not in the Bible.  Supposedly the word refers to the descendants of Shem.
If so, then the word would refer to not just Israelites, but also Ishmaelites and Edomites.
In which case, anyone who is anti-Arab could be accused of "antisemitism"... and even
God might be accused of "antisemitism" when He said: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

.


----------



## Shalimar (May 28, 2018)

KingsX said:


> That is another term that people like to throw around to try to force others to conform
> to whatever their ideology and agenda is.
> 
> The irony is... the word, Semite,  does not have an actual racial or religious meaning.
> ...


Wow. It seems to me that is projection on your part to suggest anyone else is attempting to force feed their agenda on others. The OP has made her feelings known, it is highly disrespectful to ignore them. I grow weary of the dissembling and misdirection infecting  this thread. My family contains both Christians and Jews.  As my Jewish relatives would say, Shalom.


----------



## KingsX (May 28, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> This thread is not a platform for the inequities of Putin or anyone other than Nazi Germany.




According to Putin,  Stalin's Red Army was the victor who defeated Hitler.
When Putin helped dedicate a Red Army victory momument near Tel Aviv,
Israelis agreed that without Stalin's Red Army, Hitler would have won WW2.
Netanyahu was Putin's guest of honor at Putin's recent Red Army victory parade 
in Moscow.


" Russia is the only major country that continues to celebrate 
the defeat of Nazi Germany as a national holiday."

*

" Jews should acknowledge the fact, that were it not for the Red Army, 
there would not have been a victory against Nazi Germany, and there
would probably not have been any Jewish survivors in Europe. "

http://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/our-debt-to-the-red-army-now-it-can-be-told/


" Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stood alongside Russian President Vladimir Putin 
and Serbian President Alexander Vujcic at a parade in Moscow's Red Square 
commemorating the 73rd anniversary of the Russian victory over Nazi Germany 
on Wednesday.

President Putin had personally invited Prime Minister Netanyahu to participate 
alongside him in the events of Russia's annual victory day. "

https://www.jpost.com/International...in-Moscow-attends-victory-day-ceremony-555925

.

.


----------



## Falcon (May 28, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Wow. It seems to me that is projection on your part to suggest anyone else is attempting to force feed their agenda on others. The OP has made her feelings known, it is highly disrespectful to ignore them. I grow weary of the dissembling and misdirection infecting  this thread. My family contains both Christians and Jews.  As my Jewish relatives would say, Shalom.



Same with me  Shali.   And I'm proud  to be a member.  Most are known for their  brains !


----------



## Pam (May 29, 2018)

KingsX said:


> That is another term that people like to throw around to try to force others to conform
> to whatever their ideology and agenda is.
> 
> The irony is... the word, Semite,  does not have an actual racial or religious meaning.
> ...




The word Semite refers to peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, however the term "anti-Semitism" was first coined in 1879 in reference specifically to the hatred of Jews.


----------



## justfred (May 29, 2018)

The Nazi massacre of not only the Jews but others during Hitlers 'reign' seems to be the number one topic here. Why? I think it,s because it took place within or very close to living memory but were not other massacres that took place just as evil? Let,s look back in history. Mao Tse-tung's long march in which around 70 million were massacred. The massacre of the American Indians by the white man, The massacre of the Australian Aborigine. The massacre of Africans during  'colonisation' by the white man. Going further back, the massacre of hundreds of thousands  Muslims during the Crusades. Massacres have taken place and are still taking place all over the world.  
When will man learn to live in peace with his neighbour. Does it matter what colour his skin is? Does it matter which God he worships?


----------



## Ruthanne (May 29, 2018)

justfred said:


> The Nazi massacre of not only the Jews but others during Hitlers 'reign' seems to be the number one topic here. Why? I think it,s because it took place within or very close to living memory but were not other massacres that took place just as evil? Let,s look back in history. Mao Tse-tung's long march in which around 70 million were massacred. The massacre of the American Indians by the white man, The massacre of the Australian Aborigine. The massacre of Africans during  'colonisation' by the white man. Going further back, the massacre of hundreds of thousands  Muslims during the Crusades. Massacres have taken place and are still taking place all over the world.
> When will man learn to live in peace with his neighbour. Does it matter what colour his skin is? Does it matter which God he worships?



"When will man learn to live in peace with his neighbour. Does it matter what colour his skin is? Does it matter which God he worships?"  

Those are the most important ideas that need exploring.  Could you start a thread on that?  I think many will reply.


----------



## justfred (May 29, 2018)

Yes. I think it about time this thread was brought to a close. It has gone from Nazi memorabilia  to a slanging  match.  We all belong to this wonderful forum as friends. Let,s keep it that way, please!


----------



## KingsX (May 29, 2018)

.

Anyone who believes it doesn't matter which God is worshiped is no friend of mine !!

.


----------



## Aunt Bea (May 29, 2018)

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> Anyone who believes it doesn't matter which God is worshiped is no friend of mine !!
> 
> .



I'm sorry you feel that way but I'm ok with that.


----------



## Ruthanne (May 29, 2018)

justfred said:


> Yes. I think it about time this thread was brought to a close. It has gone from Nazi memorabilia  to a slanging  match.  We all belong to this wonderful forum as friends. Let,s keep it that way, please!


I agree 100%; we are all friends and what a nice thought that is!:love_heart:


----------



## Keesha (May 29, 2018)

justfred said:


> The Nazi massacre of not only the Jews but others during Hitlers 'reign' seems to be the number one topic here. Why? I think it,s because it took place within or very close to living memory but were not other massacres that took place just as evil? Let,s look back in history. Mao Tse-tung's long march in which around 70 million were massacred. The massacre of the American Indians by the white man, The massacre of the Australian Aborigine. The massacre of Africans during  'colonisation' by the white man. Going further back, the massacre of hundreds of thousands  Muslims during the Crusades. Massacres have taken place and are still taking place all over the world.
> When will man learn to live in peace with his neighbour. Does it matter what colour his skin is? Does it matter which God he worships?





Ruthanne said:


> "When will man learn to live in peace with his neighbour. Does it matter what colour his skin is? Does it matter which God he worships?"
> 
> Those are the most important ideas that need exploring.  Could you start a thread on that?  I think many will reply.


This isn’t my type of thread to join into but I really appreciate these two posts. 

Lets put this  thread to rest now.


----------



## Sunny (May 29, 2018)

But before we put it to a well-deserved rest, I'd like to get in one more word about the definition of antisemitism, which managed to get under scrutiny here.



> That is another term that people like to throw around to try to force others to conform
> to whatever their ideology and agenda is.
> 
> The irony is... the word, Semite,  does not have an actual racial or religious meaning.
> ...



OK, so the next time you hear someone attacking an Ishmaelite or an Edomite, feel free to call them an antisemite.

This argument is another red herring, and clearly an attempt to deflect attention from the antisemitism strutting its way through this thread. Whether the Arabs are semites also is totally beside the point. Of course other semitic groups were targeted by the Holocaust, as were all people who did not meet Hitler's insane standards of Aryan excellence.

But the term "antisemitism" virtually always refers to anti-Jewish sentiment, and has nothing to do with other groups who might be termed Semites. Here is the encyclopedia Britannica's description of the term:

*Anti-Semitism*,  hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious or racial group. The term _anti-Semitism_ was coined in 1879 by the German agitator Wilhelm Marr to designate the anti-Jewish campaigns under way in central Europe at that time. Although the term now has wide currency, it is a misnomer, since it implies a ​discrimination against all Semites. Arabs and other peoples are also Semites, and yet they are not the targets of anti-Semitism as it is usually understood. The term is especially inappropriate as a label for the anti-Jewish 
prejudices, statements, or actions of Arabs or other Semites. Nazianti-Semitism, which culminated in the Holocaust , had a racist dimension in that it targeted Jews because of their supposed biological characteristics—even those who had themselves converted to other religions or whose parents were converts.


----------



## StarSong (May 29, 2018)

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> Anyone who believes it doesn't matter which God is worshiped is no friend of mine !!
> 
> .





Aunt Bea said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way but I'm ok with that.



Me, too.  Thanks for the info.  



Sunny said:


> But before we put it to a well-deserved rest, I'd like to get in one more word about the definition of antisemitism, which managed to get under scrutiny here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's hard to imagine that anyone who participated in this thread is sincerely unclear about  the general meaning of this word. Thank you for doing the research  to put that matter to bed.

Like others, I think it's time to put a halt to this discussion.


----------



## C'est Moi (May 29, 2018)

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> Anyone who believes it doesn't matter which God is worshiped is no friend of mine !!
> 
> .





Aunt Bea said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way but I'm ok with that.





StarSong said:


> Me, too.  Thanks for the info.



Adding my own "I'm OK with that."


----------



## justfred (May 29, 2018)

I take it then that anyone who is not of the same religion as yourself and say believes in Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism etc;  would never be invited to eat at your table.


----------



## Traveler (May 29, 2018)

I wonder how many people are aware that many Europeans, in addition to German's, actively assisted the Nazi's in hunting down, arresting and turning Jews over to their killers. Examples: Members of the French and Italian police were especially active it doing exactly that.

I'm some what of a history buff, and I can't think of any time since The Spanish Inquisition of the 13th century when persecution of the Jews in Europe was not a daily occurrence. 

Hitler used the pre-existing anti-Semitism for his own evil ends, he did not actually invent it.


----------



## fmdog44 (May 29, 2018)

My next door neighbor was a Marine and fought the Japanese in major battles. He brought back a Japanese officers sword he took from him and killed him with it. He left the blood on the blade and had it impregnated in to the metal so it could never be removed.


----------



## justfred (May 30, 2018)

I owe you all a sincere apology re; my post about worshipping whichever God they choose., What I should have said instead of God was Religion. We all know there is only one God but is worshipped and called different names in other religions.
I did not word it correctly and would like to sincerely apologise for any misunderstanding.
Thank you very much.


----------



## KingsX (May 30, 2018)

justfred said:


> *We all know* there is only one God but is worshipped and called different names in other religions.




You might want to rephrase that too. You don't speak for me.

It's rather ironic... people are allowed different opinions about God [as long as those opinions pass a PC litmus test, I'm sure.]
But not about certain aspects of the history of WW2.  

.


----------



## justfred (May 30, 2018)

OK  I don,t speak for you. I am not going to ask your views on religion as, along with politics it,s a subject I will not discuss.  What do you know of certain aspects of WW2? Did you take an active part? I did so I know a little about it.


----------



## StarSong (May 30, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> My next door neighbor was a Marine and fought the Japanese in major battles. He brought back a Japanese officers sword he took from him and killed him with it. He left the blood on the blade and had it impregnated in to the metal so it could never be removed.



Thank you for sharing this, fmdog.  I cannot say whether or not this is a bizarre thing for your neighbor to do, having never served in the military nor been personally involved in a war, never mind hand-to-hand combat to the death.  Maybe the source of my inner conflict about "war trophies" is knowing that I haven't walked that mile in WWII veterans' shoes.


----------



## rgp (May 30, 2018)

justfred said:


> I owe you all a sincere apology re; my post about worshipping whichever God they choose., What I should have said instead of God was Religion. We all know there is only one God but is worshipped and called different names in other religions.
> I did not word it correctly and would like to sincerely apologise for any misunderstanding.
> Thank you very much.




How do you know ? Ya ever meet him?


----------



## justfred (May 30, 2018)

I am now getting the impression that I am unwelcome on this forum. I have apologised for what was an error on my part but apparently my apology has not been accepted.
Goodbye.


----------



## Shalimar (May 30, 2018)

justfred said:


> I am now getting the impression that I am unwelcome on this forum. I have apologised for what was an error on my part but apparently my apology has not been accepted.
> Goodbye.



Oh justfred, please don’t leave. You are very welcome here, we need people of your intelligence, depth, experience, and compassionate outlook. Don’t let the sharp words of a few sour you toward the rest of us. I 

appreciated the sincerity of your apology, and the grace which it showed, you are a true gentleman. For whatever reason, each forum has it’s naysayers, or those who thrive on conflict. They do not reflect the majority here on SF.


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## rgp (May 30, 2018)

justfred said:


> I am now getting the impression that I am unwelcome on this forum. I have apologised for what was an error on my part but apparently my apology has not been accepted.
> Goodbye.



I hope you're not getting that impression from me?

Do we all, always have to agree to be welcome here?...I hope not. IMO challenging each other is sometimes how we learn.


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## rgp (May 30, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Oh justfred, please don’t leave. You are very welcome here, we need people of your intelligence, depth, experience, and compassionate outlook. Don’t let the sharp words of a few sour you toward the rest of us. I
> 
> appreciated the sincerity of your apology, and the grace which it showed, you are a true gentleman. For whatever reason, each forum has it’s naysayers, or those who thrive on conflict. They do not reflect the majority here on SF.



So...if we do not automatically agree...does that mean we thrive on conflict ? And as such are only thought of as the naysayers?

There is no point in having an open forum, if all we are going to do solicit agreement . IMO an open forum is to discuss a topic, offer another thought on the topic , post an opposing opinion...And of course if one does agree say so.

I have told people for years, that is why Baskin Robbins offers 31 flavors....because we all have different tastes .


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## Shalimar (May 30, 2018)

rgp said:


> So...if we do not automatically agree...does that mean we thrive on conflict ? And as such are only thought of as the naysayers?
> 
> There is no point in having an open forum, if all we are going to do solicit agreement . IMO an open forum is to discuss a topic, offer another thought on the topic , post an opposing opinion...And of course if one does agree say so.
> 
> I have told people for years, that is why Baskin Robbins offers 31 flavors....because we all have different tastes .



Rgp, I was not  specifically “targeting” you in my post. My comments were centred on people who ignore debate,  who 
grandstand, repeatedly interjecting their often harsh ideology into threads, and care nothing for the pain their comments may 

trigger. You showed concern over another’s feelings, they do not. They deny, project, obfuscate, in an attempt to put out their message. Such people do not discuss, nor do they learn, their minds are closed to any truth other than their own. They react with anger at any deviation from their reality. No one grows in such a hostile environment.


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## justfred (May 30, 2018)

I am not saying we should all agree on everything automatically. I made a grave error over a remark I should not have made re; religion. I should have kept my mouth shut as I do not normally discuss religion or politics as they are both very 'touchy' subjects. Many wars have been caused by both in different parts of the world. Not that I am attempting to start WW3. I will leave that to the idiots that are running some countries. 
What I am annoyed about is the fact that I apologised for this error but in reply got sarcasm instead of acceptance of my apology.


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## RadishRose (May 30, 2018)

rgp said:


> How do you know ? Ya ever meet him?



Don't you mean her?  layful:


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## Shalimar (May 30, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> Don't you mean her?  layful:


Yes, the feminine face of God. Works for me. Nurturing creator.


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## rgp (May 30, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> Don't you mean her?  layful:




Well...OK, could be I suppose ?.........


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## RadishRose (May 30, 2018)

justfred said:


> I am not saying we should all agree on everything automatically. I made a grave error over a remark I should not have made re; religion. I should have kept my mouth shut as I do not normally discuss religion or politics as they are both very 'touchy' subjects. Many wars have been caused by both in different parts of the world. Not that I am attempting to start WW3. I will leave that to the idiots that are running some countries.
> What I am annoyed about is the fact that I apologised for this error but in reply got sarcasm instead of acceptance of my apology.



Fred I honestly thought the reply you got was meant as a joke. 

Stick around.

There are a few here who are good people but get bored easily and enjoy throwing out criticism for its own sake. Makes their day sparkle a little.

Unless the conversation goes back to the TOPIC, I'll say no more here.


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## Shalimar (May 30, 2018)

justfred said:


> I am not saying we should all agree on everything automatically. I made a grave error over a remark I should not have made re; religion. I should have kept my mouth shut as I do not normally discuss religion or politics as they are both very 'touchy' subjects. Many wars have been caused by both in different parts of the world. Not that I am attempting to start WW3. I will leave that to the idiots that are running some countries.
> What I am annoyed about is the fact that I apologised for this error but in reply got sarcasm instead of acceptance of my apology.


I hear you. It is upsetting to deal with such reactions, but I hope it won’t drive you away from the rest of us.


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## rgp (May 30, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Rgp, I was not  specifically “targeting” you in my post. My comments were centred on people who ignore debate,  who
> grandstand, repeatedly interjecting their often harsh ideology into threads, and care nothing for the pain their comments may
> 
> trigger. You showed concern over another’s feelings, they do not. They deny, project, obfuscate, in an attempt to put out their message. Such people do not discuss, nor do they learn, their minds are closed to any truth other than their own. They react with anger at any deviation from their reality. No one grows in such a hostile environment.




I wasn't really feeling 'targeted' but thank you for the clarification just the same.

I just feel one must have thick skin to participate in most of these forums. It is just not a Kumbaya world , it would be nice if it were , but IMO it is naive to think that it is . As such if we are going to discuss the gritty world in which we live ? The language , points of view themselves are at times going to be gritty as well...jus'sayin


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## justfred (May 30, 2018)

OK. Maybe I am not 'thick skinned' but in future I will learn to take the rough with the smooth. Some of us Brits look at things differently to the way you folk in the USA do. I have looked at posts on Youtube and have often said "How do they get away with that". No doubt you have said the same about things that go on in this country.
Can I come back?


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## justfred (May 30, 2018)

rgp.
What is meant by Kumbya?


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## KingsX (May 30, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> For whatever reason, each forum has it’s naysayers, or those who thrive on conflict. They do not reflect the majority here on SF.





Conflict,  external and internal,  promotes both growth and resolve.  

If we are surrounded only with the like-minded we become stagnant and complacent.

I have learned much as a result of those who question and disagree with me.  It causes me to research, study and learn more...
 and actually helps me in the debate.

.


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## rgp (May 30, 2018)

justfred said:


> rgp.
> What is meant by Kumbya?



It's a peace & love of sorts campfire song....Kind of hints to all things warm & fuzzy....See below

   [h=3]Kumbaya Lyrics : Christian Hymns with Lyrics - YouTube[/h]

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xIAN-PkuAg


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## Roadwarrior (May 30, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Conflict,  external and internal,  promotes both growth and resolve.
> 
> If we are surrounded only with the like-minded we become stagnant and complacent.
> 
> ...


At my age, it really doesn't matter.  I would have welcomed the arguments back when I was climbing the corporate ladder, now that I'm in my 'golden years' I don't live on conflict.  I just walk away & don't engage, they will soon forget & get on with their lives.  I quit Facebook & other social sites in Nov '16 after so much negativity.  Nasty posts are easily ignored. my blood pressure & health (stress does kill) is more important to me than growth or resolve.


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