# My disaster in home repairs



## debodun

Recently I noticed that the mortar around the window casements was severely compromised and the wood around the windows needed painting - in places there was no paint left. I got mortar repair caulk and paint at the hardware store. The more I tried to squirt caulk between the bricks, the more bricks fell out. The paint looked white in the can but after I applied it, I could see right through it - it seemed almost colorless. You might say, "Hire a professional.", but I've had so many contractors rip me off, I am shy about them now.


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## Aunt Marg

Would be such a shame to allow this to progress, Deb.

My husband looked at the picture and said hiring a professional wouldn't cost a lot, and the job itself could be easily accomplished in a half a day. My husband estimates somewhere around $200 - $300.  

I'd phone around, and when you settle on someone, ask them to provide references, and follow-up on those references. There's no need to be burned by anyone.

One thing my husband noticed... the slope of the sill is wrong. It's not allowing for proper runoff.


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## debodun

That's just one window. Most of the others are in similar condition. How how much would you pay?


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## Keesha

Aunt Marg said:


> Would be such a shame to allow this to progress, Deb.
> 
> My husband looked at the picture and said hiring a professional wouldn't cost a lot, and the job itself could be easily accomplished in a half a day. My husband estimates somewhere around $200 - $300.
> 
> I'd phone around, and when you settle on someone, ask them to provide references, and follow-up on those references. There's no need to be burned by anyone.
> 
> One thing my husband noticed... the slope of the sill is wrong. It's not allowing for proper runoff.


Absolutely agree. Bricks are your foundation and really important. For a job that important and in need of skilled labour, I’d definitely hire a professional. Quite often the quote is free but not always. Getting a few quotes and picking the best price would be your safest bet.

Some things you can’t cheap out on snd this is definitely one of them. Your home is supposed to be your biggest investment so caring for it is a wise decision. You knew enough to hire professional tree cutters to cut your trees down. It’s expensive but it’s also specific skilled labour that can be on the dangerous side so it’s money well earned in my opinion.

It may contribute to heat loss throughout your house and possibly leaks. Definitely hire someone.


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## jerry old

None can say until there actually looking at work needed.
My problem has always been actually parting with the funds.
How much$$$


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## Judycat

Did you start at the outer edge or in the middle of the damage? Just wondering.
Also was it paint or was it sealer?


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## gennie

I know very little about construction but I've owned a lot of different properties and know a little about repair and maintenance.  If this were my house, I'd be worried about wood rot behind the brick rather than the outside appearance of the brick.  

That's just from looking at the picture, of course.


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## Judycat

Yeah. Some of that looks like the mortar is completely gone


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## debodun

Judycat said:


> Also was it paint or was it sealer?



Here the can of paint, you tell me.




An this is what the window sill looked like after the paint dried - looks more gray then white.


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## Ruth n Jersey

Such a shame. I guess the loose bricks must be removed and reset in mortar. I hope you can find someone who won't rip you off. Not an easy task.


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## Gemma

Try several tubes of Quikrete Mortar Repair.  We used it to seal cracks in a brick building and it worked great.  We bought the tubes and used a caulking gun to apply it.






The wooden window sills are so dry, it may take several coats of paint to cover them.


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## Judycat

debodun said:


> Here the can of paint, you tell me.
> 
> View attachment 110080
> 
> 
> An this is what the window sill looked like after the paint dried - looks more gray then white.
> 
> View attachment 110089


Looks like paint.


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## gordino

Keesha said:


> Absolutely agree. Bricks are your foundation and really important. For a job that important and in need of skilled labour, I’d definitely hire a professional. Quite often the quote is free but not always. Getting a few quotes and picking the best price would be your safest bet.
> 
> Some things you can’t cheap out on snd this is definitely one of them. Your home is supposed to be your biggest investment so caring for it is a wise decision. You knew enough to hire professional tree cutters to cut your trees down. It’s expensive but it’s also specific skilled labour that can be on the dangerous side so it’s money well earned in my opinion.
> 
> It may contribute to heat loss throughout your house and possibly leaks. Definitely hire someone.


The longer its left, the more expensive it will be to put it right Deb.


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## Keesha

gordino said:


> The longer its left, the more expensive it will be to put it right Deb.


And the more damage it will cause.


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## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> That's just one window. Most of the others are in similar condition. How how much would you pay?


How many windows in all, Deb?


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## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> Here the can of paint, you tell me.
> 
> View attachment 110080
> 
> 
> An this is what the window sill looked like after the paint dried - looks more gray then white.
> 
> View attachment 110089


Have dear husband sitting here with me right now, and he says that's a good choice, though yearly maintenance may be required.

He also apologizes for not noticing the shallowed-out centre of the sill this morning. Have the slope checked, but dear husband said it may be alright.

Moisture and wetness infiltration is a serious concern with open brick joints. Driving rain, blowing snow, any/all moisture can and will result in damage within the structure, so prompt attention to the repairs is paramount. 

If your budget doesn't allow for all windows to be repaired, start with one or two, and select the windows in the worst shape, and in addition to, the windows that receive the most punishment as far as adverse weather in concerned.

One or two windows this year, another one or two next.


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## debodun

The most mortar erosion is in areas that are under roof corners where the roof angles come together forming a valley. This channels the rain runoff right in those spots. See pic (red circled areas).




Gemma said:


> Try several tubes of Quikrete Mortar Repair.  We used it to seal cracks in a brick building and it worked great.  We bought the tubes and used a caulking gun to apply it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wooden window sills are so dry, it may take several coats of paint to cover them.



That's the exact product I used where the mortar was just missing. That has almost a too wide tip to get between my bricks. Maybe the standard space between bricks was diffenent 120 years ago. My mortar spaces are about 1/4 inch.


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## debodun

Aunt Marg said:


> How many windows in all, Deb?



12 upstairs, 18 downstairs not counting attic and cellar.


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## Keesha

debodun said:


> 12 upstairs, 18 downstairs not counting attic and cellar.


What? 30 windows in total? 
Wow!


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## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> The most mortar erosion is in areas that are under roof corners where the roof angles come together forming a valley. This channels the rain runoff right in those spots. See pic (red circled areas).
> 
> View attachment 110171
> 
> 
> That's the exact product I used where the mortar was just missing. That has almost a too wide tip to get between my bricks. Maybe the standard space between bricks was diffenent 120 years ago. My mortar spaces are about 1/4 inch.


Deb. That is where I would start with repairs, the worst spots... tackle those first. As far as products that claim to do the job, dear husband's words to you are, "please don't look to an easy fix, because it won't last".

Your home is so grand and beautiful, would be so nice to know it's repaired right.

One thing I notice is the lack of downspouts. My husband hasn't seen these pictures yet, but I'll have him look at them tonight and will add more.


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## Keesha

Aunt Marg said:


> Deb. That is where I would start with repairs, the worst spots... tackle those first. As far as products that claim to do the job, dear husband's words to you are, "please don't look to an easy fix, because it won't last".
> 
> Your home is so grand and beautiful, would be so nice to know it's repaired right.
> 
> One thing I notice is the lack of downspouts. My husband hasn't seen these pictures yet, but I'll have him look at them tonight and will add more.


There are downspouts at the front. One on each side. The top level doesn’t seem to have any visible downspouts but perhaps they are at the back of the house.

Hey Deb. Do you clean out your gutters from leaves and stuff? If you don’t then this can contribute to your current problem. Proper drainage is crucial. Cleaning gutters and downspouts need to be done at least once yearly.


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## debodun

Yes, every fall I clean the gutters. I get out on the porch roofs, skitter along the edge as I scoop the dry leaves out and check the downspouts for blockage. You are correct, there are no gutters on the top of the roof. I looked into it several years ago. The guy came, took one look, snapped his trapperkeeper shut, said it was too far off the ground to work on, and took off. Are these guys are only used to working on ranch houses?

I posted updated photos of my house here:

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/updated-photos-of-my-house.50173/


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## Aneeda72

Looks like you have the base paint, did you add color to it?


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## Em in Ohio

gennie said:


> I know very little about construction but I've owned a lot of different properties and know a little about repair and maintenance.  If this were my house, I'd be worried about wood rot behind the brick rather than the outside appearance of the brick.
> 
> That's just from looking at the picture, of course.


I agree.  I think if they pull or tap on the sill, it will probably crumble away from hidden rot.  I'd start there, before doing any ? tuck-pointing ? to the brickwork.


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## Keesha

debodun said:


> Yes, every fall I clean the gutters. I get out on the porch roofs, skitter along the edge as I scoop the dry leaves out and check the downspouts for blockage. You are correct, there are no gutters on the top of the roof. I looked into it several years ago. The guy came, took one look, snapped his trapperkeeper shut, said it was too far off the ground to work on, and took off. Are these guys are only used to working on ranch houses?
> 
> I posted updated photos of my house here:
> 
> https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/updated-photos-of-my-house.50173/


Oh dear. That’s probably your biggest problem. Your house has no way of effectively getting rid of water which will ruin your windows and roof and definitely isn’t something you can do yourself. 
Have you called any contractors yet?
Another idea might be to get a contractor who works for a hardware store. Someone who is highly recommended and accountable for his/her work.


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## debodun

I had the name and number of a business that painted the trim on my neighbor's house last year. I sent him an email today with photos. He claimed in his reply that he never heard of my neighbor or ever did he ever do any work in our community. In addition, he said he is not accepting any more jobs because he is moving out of state soon.

I don't know what's going on there!!!


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## Gemma

debodun said:


> The most mortar erosion is in areas that are under roof corners where the roof angles come together forming a valley. This channels the rain runoff right in those spots. See pic (red circled areas).
> 
> View attachment 110171
> 
> 
> That's the exact product I used where the mortar was just missing. That has almost a too wide tip to get between my bricks. Maybe the standard space between bricks was diffenent 120 years ago. My mortar spaces are about 1/4 inch.


The tip is cut on an angle with a sharp knife to the size you want and then placed into the caulking gun to use it.  This product works well on 1/4 inch and even larger cracks, if used properly.


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## Kaila

debodun said:


> I had the name and number of a business that painted the trim on my neighbor's house last year. I sent him an email today with photos. He claimed in his reply that he never heard of my neighbor or ever did he ever do any work in our community. In addition, he said he is not accepting any more jobs because he is moving out of state soon.
> 
> I don't know what's going on there!!!



That's a really odd thing, Deb!  
We could guess lots of possible scenarios, but none would be positive or sensible, or be any more likely than another, so I guess we won't.  
But I conclude that it's just as well that he is *not* coming to your house!


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## squatting dog

Like Aneeda72 said. that looks like a can of base. It would look white when you open it, but, would need color tint pigment added. That's probably the reason it looks grayish and transparent after applying. 
I know you don't need another worry, but looking at the picture of the window, I noticed it appears that the flashing runs under instead of over the the large piece at the end. (see circle) If this is true, ( I hope I'm seeing this wrong) then water and debris has a path to the back side of the bricks.


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## debodun

The roofer that did that flashing I hired in 2007, I can't remember his name, but even if I called him, he'd say it was out of warranty. Looks like he cut into the mortar instead of the bricks. Te he tried to pound nails into the bricks and it didn't hold. Lazy %&#$!


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## debodun

As I said I am not great shakes when it comes to home repairs: Squeezed in the Quickrete and smushed it out with a putty knife.


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## debodun

This is an estimate I got from a contractor a few years ago. Do his prices seem high?


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## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> As I said I am not great shakes when it comes to home repairs: Squeezed in the Quickrete and smushed it out with a putty knife.
> 
> View attachment 110321


Holy smokes, looks super-great, Deb! Treating the wooden sill with a good coat of the Valpar in post #9, will smarten things right up!

Dear husband said if you find the finished look too grey after it's set, take a wire brush to the areas you repaired and give them a light brushing. It won't erase the grey, but it will help soften it (look wise).

As for the proper installation of flashing against brickwork, husband says the flashing should be sandwiched between the brick joints, and that whoever did the existing flashing (seen in the pics) did it all wrong, in that they never allowed for overlap with each stepped piece of applied flashing, and in addition to, failed to sandwich the top of each stepped piece into the brick joints.

Hubby is going over your work estimate as we speak. Will post more when he's done.


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## Keesha

debodun said:


> As I said I am not great shakes when it comes to home repairs: Squeezed in the Quickrete and smushed it out with a putty knife.
> 
> View attachment 110321


I hate to be a critic here since I’m the one who suggested getting this mortar stuff but that was before I realized the extent of damage you had.
About a month ago I watched a ‘Do it Right’ by Mike Holmes who is probably Canada’s smartest most successful house builder in Canada and he did a show on this very thing. How to make sure your mortar is done right. A house he was at had leaks underneath all the windows and when he investigated further he said that the mortar hadn’t been done correctly  so created a pathway of water that ruined their bricks and roofing. He said that the mortar is suppose to be concave in between the bricks. Anyway, these guys and professionals who will probably do proper work so you won’t get leaks and stuff in your house and for the work that needs doing, that’s probably not too bad a quote. .It is really important that you get it done. Make sure he’s insured. He probably is if he came to your house and gave you a detailed quote. Good job on getting on top of this. You are really surprising me. Did the contractor see your work and if so, what did he say?


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## debodun

I oft fine when I try to get out of it "on the cheap" I usually have to end up spending more. I have brick colored dye I was planning on painting over the mortar when it dries so it is less obvious. Probably not many people would even notice it as they speed by in their cars. Cosmetic is less important that functionality. What bothers me is the green color on the exposed wood. Probably a fungal infection. Maybe I should brush on some Tinactin . Someone I showed the pictures to said that I had "serious neglect", but what old lady thinks about going out on the roof and inspecting the brickwork of the house? It's like would you remember when your drivers license is due for renewal unless the DMV sent a reminder? Something you just don't think about.

I've had contractors come and refuse to work on my house. They say "It's a can of worms."


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## Aneeda72

Old houses are money pits.  I know as I am on my second one.  Ugh.  When was your home first built?  My house is made with cinder blocks.  The cinder blocks are filled with rubble.  Then covered with small bricks.  It looks like a brick house, but is not.  

The estimate looks correct to me, but will cost a lot more now as prices have increased.  Whatever the estimate you have to make sure you are prepared to pay at least a third more.  Once they start they will find other stuff wrong.  It’s endless.


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## debodun

Aneeda72 said:


> The estimate looks correct to me, but will cost a lot more now as prices have increased.



I did an inflation calculation on that figure in the estimate and today that price would be $34,138.68.


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## Aneeda72

Oh, good.  Then you should plan on 50,000 at least.  Or sell it and move if you can get a good price.  When we sold our house, about a year ago, I was thrilled to be done with it.  Then when the earthquakes started, and the center was a mile from that house, I was doubly happy.


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## Keesha

debodun said:


> I've had contractors come and refuse to work on my house. They say "It's a can of worms."


Which probably means it needs a lot of work but you now have someone who has put a quote in writing. I’d ask for references and a workmanship guarantee.

Even if you were to sell your house now as is, anyone purchasing the house will do their own estimates of what needs doing and deduct it from the amount you want so either way, you pay. You’ll probably get more if the work.


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## gordino

Aunt Marg said:


> Holy smokes, looks super-great, Deb! Treating the wooden sill with a good coat of the Valpar in post #9, will smarten things right up!
> 
> Dear husband said if you find the finished look too grey after it's set, take a wire brush to the areas you repaired and give them a light brushing. It won't erase the grey, but it will help soften it (look wise).
> 
> As for the proper installation of flashing against brickwork, husband says the flashing should be sandwiched between the brick joints, and that whoever did the existing flashing (seen in the pics) did it all wrong, in that they never allowed for overlap with each stepped piece of applied flashing, and in addition to, failed to sandwich the top of each stepped piece into the brick joints.
> 
> Hubby is going over your work estimate as we speak. Will post more when he's done.


You have done the main part of the job, keeping the damp out, Deb. The rest is just cosmetic.


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## Knight

1st. let me say your are one brave woman to be getting into position to take pictures of the damage you need repaired. 

For those capable of do it yourself youtube videos can be really helpful. This one is similar to the kind of repair you will need. Note the kind of tools needed and the steps the demonstrator takes for safety. If you do find a contractor then you can understand the cost to aquire the tools & need to keep those tools always ready to do the job right. 

You do have a really nice home its to bad age and deterioration brought this kind of needed repair. If contractors say you have a can of worms they probably mean investing a lot of money into an old home isn't worth it. There are people out there that buy homes like yours to rehab & flip it for a profit. What your situation is is none of my business so what you finally decide to do is your decision to make. Is the continued cost of repairs really money well spent?


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## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> This is an estimate I got from a contractor a few years ago. Do his prices seem high?
> 
> View attachment 110495


Deb. My husband went over the work order in detail, and while the contractor calculated totals relative to work needing done, it's vague in relation to how exactly the contractor planned on doing much of it.

For instance, my husband looked at the work associated with the porch... shoring-up, the jacking, the use of pressure treated material to stabilize it, however, no mention is made of the contractor planning to go down to frost level and pour proper footings, so as to prevent future settling and movement of the porch, so while your porch may have looked like it was repaired when the contractor was done, his work order reflects nothing more than a cosmetic fix, and the work done would not have lasted.

Regarding the masonry sidewalk in front of your house, there is no mention as to how deep the contractor planned on pouring the concrete, or if he planned on using rebar, etc. My husband said pouring concrete of any kind (any application) without rebar to hold it together is a waste of time. It will not last.

Advice to you from my hubby... obtain as many work estimates as you can, from as many reputable contractors as you can, ensure every detail associated with all jobs to be performed is clearly outlined and in writing, including an itemized dollar figure for each stage through to completion. In addition to, hold the contractor to a time frame, and DO NOT pay upfront for anything.


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## MickaC

debodun said:


> Yes, every fall I clean the gutters. I get out on the porch roofs, skitter along the edge as I scoop the dry leaves out and check the downspouts for blockage. You are correct, there are no gutters on the top of the roof. I looked into it several years ago. The guy came, took one look, snapped his trapperkeeper shut, said it was too far off the ground to work on, and took off. Are these guys are only used to working on ranch houses?
> 
> I posted updated photos of my house here:
> 
> https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/updated-photos-of-my-house.50173/


What a beautiful historic home......like some said.....do the amount that needs repair first, and do some every year till they're done. Would be nice if you could, when you can afford the repairs in the future. An historic home like that if repairs are kept up, are very worthy of a excellent price. Do what you can, when you can.


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## Gary O'

Em in Ohio said:


> I think if they pull or tap on the sill, it will probably crumble away from hidden rot. I'd start there, before doing any ? tuck-pointing ? to the brickwork.



Yup




debodun said:


> 12 upstairs, 18 downstairs not counting attic and cellar.


 






[/QUOTE]

Ho...Lee...Crap!
*
Get a professional.....soon!!*


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## debodun

Long ago, my mom inquired into funding for historic home maintenance, but since the house is not "officially" on the National Historical Register", it didn't not qualify. The historic markers were placed in the 1920s by New York State, not the Federal govt.


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## debodun

This guy showed up to mow my lawn 2 years ago. Needless to say, I questioned his qualifications.


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## debodun

With home repairs, I feel like the little red hen: you have to fix something before something else can be fixed. A few years ago, when I was looking for a roofer, he required that the electric line be raised 5 feet from where it was attached to the house. Okay, I called the power company and their representative said I had to have the large yew bush that was growing near the line cut back before that could work on the lines.

I don't think there isn't glass in a window in the main part of the house that isn't cracked because of the loose casements, and to get new windows, I'd have to have the bricks around the windows repointed or the whole wall would collapse if contractors removed the casements because of the loose bricks. Every repair job seems to snowball. In the end it would be less of a bother to just raze the house and build a new one.


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## Knight

debodun said:


> Every repair job seems to snowball. In the end it would be less of a bother to just raze the house and build a new one.


Might be worth looking into. Or sell for whatever you could get , use that to  buy land & build a ranch style home you could manage.


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## Keesha

Knight said:


> Might be worth looking into. Or sell for whatever you could get , use that to  buy land & build a ranch style home you could manage.


Yeah. That’s a huge house which needs so many repairs you might consider selling it and downsizing to something you can manage. Maybe get a much smaller house on a bigger property. That way if your neighbours start a fire it will be far from your house.


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## debodun

I had business cards from a masonry and a painting contractor. I sent both an email asking for them to schedule an appointment to look at the work needed. Both replied almost the same message in essence:

_I don't recognize your name. _

Do they have to recognize me to accept work?


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## squatting dog

debodun said:


> I had business cards from a masonry and a painting contractor. I sent both an email asking for them to schedule an appointment to look at the work needed. Both replied almost the same message in essence:
> 
> _I don't recognize your name. _
> 
> Do they have to recognize me to accept work?



Starting to sound like you're on some sort of unofficial blacklist.


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## JaniceM

debodun said:


> I had business cards from a masonry and a painting contractor. I sent both an email asking for them to schedule an appointment to look at the work needed. Both replied almost the same message in essence:
> 
> _I don't recognize your name. _
> 
> Do they have to recognize me to accept work?


Don't just go by business cards unless you check out the info.
I mentioned somewhere on the forum about one local contractor who allegedly did roofing-  great work, except it was "me and a couple of my friends" who actually did the work, while the guy spent the time standing in the parking lot smoking pot.   Plus after we did his job for him, he vanished without paying us.


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## debodun

I thought references were what the contractor gave the customer, not the other way. Why would a customer have to give a contractor the names of other contractors they've hired?


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## JaniceM

debodun said:


> I thought references were what the contractor gave the customer, not the other way. Why would a customer have to give a contractor the names of other contractors they've hired?


Certainly sounds weird to me!!!


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## Aneeda72

debodun said:


> I thought references were what the contractor gave the customer, not the other way. Why would a customer have to give a contractor the names of other contractors they've hired?


Actually, that is common here as in who worked on your house before and why don’t you want them back.  Contractors also want to know if someone referred them to you.  Helps build their customer base, I think.

Just tell them you spoke to them years ago and kept their card and now you want an estimate.


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## Keesha

debodun said:


> I thought references were what the contractor gave the customer, not the other way. Why would a customer have to give a contractor the names of other contractors they've hired?


Maybe to see what you are like to work with.


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## Knight

Considering all you have listed as repairs needed,  selling your home probably isn't possible. It sounds like the best you can hope for is that it doesn't collapse around you someday.


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## Judycat

Oh dear Lord Deb, maybe take a break from the forum for a while. If you have a state agency for the aging in your area, contact them for recommendations. My homeowner's insurance co. helped me with repairs for my crumbling fireplace chimney. You shouldn't have to go it alone.


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## debodun

I did and am waiting a reply.

Now another problem rears its head. An very unpleasant surprise in the kitchen. Happened overnight and I probably didn't hear it with the air conditioner running. Part of the kitchen ceiling collapsed over the stove. Plaster and dust all over. Cleaning it up was the easy part - putting up plastic to cover the hole was the hard part. I don't want pieces to fall on the stove again especially when I'm cooking. An interesting note, though, I got a look at the plumbing to the upstairs bathroom.


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## StarSong

debodun said:


> I thought references were what the contractor gave the customer, not the other way. Why would a customer have to give a contractor the names of other contractors they've hired?


Contractors always ask us how we found them - referrals, Yelp reviews, online advertising, business cards stuck in the front door, whatever.  

Small town living means few contractors who all talk to each other. Word spreads quickly about difficult, whiny, cheapskate, or overly persnickety clients. Also about houses that are crumbling from age and/or years of neglect. Not sure if you or your house fall under those categories. Only you (and they) know that.


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## RadishRose

OMG Deb, you've got to get out of there. I think the place should be condemned. Please do not attempt to cook!


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## Knight

debodun said:


> I did and am waiting a reply.
> 
> Now another problem rears its head. An very unpleasant surprise in the kitchen. Happened overnight and I probably didn't hear it with the air conditioner running. Part of the kitchen ceiling collapsed over the stove. Plaster and dust all over. Cleaning it up was the easy part - putting up plastic to cover the hole was the hard part. I don't want pieces to fall on the stove again especially when I'm cooking. An interesting note, though, I got a look at the plumbing to the upstairs bathroom.
> 
> View attachment 110938View attachment 110939


Looks like my post # 57 is happening.


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## debodun

I haven't been using the stove lately anyway because if the heat wave. I'm living on sandwiches, salads and snacky things. I thought at first it was leaky plumbing, but I didn't see any liquid water dripping from the pipes. Maybe it crumbled because of the excessive heat and humidity.


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## debodun

Judycat said:


> If you have a state agency for the aging in your area, contact them for recommendations.



I did hear back from the county senior program and come to find out, I do not qualify for their help with home maintenance because of my income level. You practically have to be destitute to receive help (individuals cannot earn over $25K annually).


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## PamfromTx

My goodness @debodun , please be safe.  It sounds like that house is starting to crumble right before your eyes.  Take care of yourself.


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## debodun

Seems everything happens at once. I feel like I'm waiting for another shoe to drop. What's it gonna be next?


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## Knight

debodun said:


> Seems everything happens at once. I feel like I'm waiting for another shoe to drop. What's it gonna be next?


What do you think? Maybe the electrical wiring due to the age of the home? Or the sewage line so deteriorating and that needs to be dug up & replaced.


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## debodun

Knight said:


> What do you think? Maybe the electrical wiring due to the age of the home? Or the sewage line so deteriorating and that needs to be dug up & replaced.



Yes, both are a joke. I have 20 amp current capacity. Can't use the hair dryer and watch TV at the same time. When I vacuum, the plug gets so hot I can barely touch it. I have to use electric plug adapters similar to the one in the attached pic because no outlets have grounded (three prong) wiring. The DPW installed new sewer lines here 3 years ago, but that is just exterior. Inside, the galvanized iron pipes do not get along with the hard water. A plumber told my mom 25 years ago the whole house should be re-plumbed.


----------



## Don M.

I've read your comments about your house over the past few months, and it sounds like you are living in a place that is Well beyond its prime.  Your note about your electricity sounds like your place is just one small act away from a house fire....20 Amps isn't enough capacity to run a small camper, let alone a house.  The entire place sounds like a huge Money Pit....would cost you far more to restore it than it will ever be worth.  

Your best bet would be to sell that place...for whatever you can get out of it....and move to an apartment where the manager has the responsibility to keep everything fixed.


----------



## debodun

Don M. said:


> Your best bet would be to sell that place...for whatever you can get out of it....and move to an apartment where the manager has the responsibility to keep everything fixed.



I totally agree. I was telling a friend about my house probelms and she said (edited for tastefulness), "The only thing that matters is when it rains you don't get wet and when you flush the toilet whatever is in the bowl disappears."


----------



## Keesha

My thoughts exactly. The house is FAR too BIG and there’s far too much maintenance & repairs that need doing to make it logical to keep it. Your neighbours drive you nuts and it’s a perfect time to downsize while you can.

One of the biggest problems I had in helping my parents is that they’d spent their entire lives being frugal and saving money. They wanted to make sure they could spend 6 months in Florida, go on 2 or 3 cruises a year and go to England once a year and they did. Unfortunately they didn’t plan their retirement. When the insurance got too much for them to travel to Florida they stopped but they didn’t consider downsizing or the essential things they’d need when they got a LOT older since they didn’t expect to live so long.

Trying to explain that they are best spending their money to make their lives better while they were alive made far more sense than saving it for others. ( whomever they may be )

You could purchase a nice one story home in the country where people aren’t that close or pick a nice apartment where you don’t even see anyone and yard work and maintenance is taken care of.
Your lifestyle could change for the best with far less things to worry about. That’s a smart move.


----------



## Knight

Way back probably months ago when you 1st. started to describe repairs needed I thought selling would be the best option. 

With all the recent repairs needed to your crumbling home I agree with your friend live in it as long as you can. I would suggest battery powered smoke alarms. The reason I changed my mind is if you do decide to sell the buyers will want a list of all that needs repaired or they probably have a professional home inspector write up all that is needed.

I think if either or both of those happen there would be a good chance your home would be condemned as uninhabitable. You may even wind up having to pay for demolition.


----------



## debodun

Keesha said:


> You could purchase a nice one story home in the country where people aren’t that close or pick a nice apartment where you don’t even see anyone and yard work and maintenance is taken care of.



I've looked through realtor.com and zillow.com and, at least in a 10 mile radius, there is no house for sale or rent that meets my preferences.

I am waiting for about 6 contravtores to return my calls. Of course, this is their busy time of year.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> I've looked through realtor.com and zillow.com and, at least in a 10 mile radius, there is no house for sale or rent that meets my preferences.
> 
> I am waiting for about 6 contravtores to return my calls. Of course, this is their busy time of year.


So go beyond a ten mile radius. Find an area that has your budget in mind. I wouldn’t expect that area to. I’d think way outside the box. Ten miles is nothing. Might as well camp in your backyard.  Get a stick with a hotdog on the end and use your neighbours fire pit to cook it.  Lol. Wouldn’t that be funny!!!


----------



## Aunt Marg

Deb. Have you considered having an assessment done on the home, not a value assessment, but rather, _a fix it up enough to put on the market assessment_? Or, _a fix it up enough to be able to enjoy it assessment_?

I would work on obtaining a dollar figure as to work needing done on the home, in addition to, what the home is worth. Knowing both figures will help you decide where and how to start.

Dry-walling a ceiling isn't expensive, nor is having a little plumbing done. As for the electrical, have an expert weigh-in on what needs done to upgrade your service, and what sort of cost would be associated with.


----------



## StarSong

Keesha said:


> So go beyond a ten mile radius. Find an area that has your budget in mind. I wouldn’t expect that area to. I’d think way outside the box. Ten miles is nothing. Might as well camp in your backyard.


As often happens, @Keesha, we were thinking along the same lines.

I learned a long time ago that once you're past walking distance it doesn't much matter if you're driving 10 minutes or 20.  

@debodun, a longer drive beats living in a high-maintenance house that's falling apart at the seams alongside neighbors you don't like.


----------



## debodun

Aunt Marg said:


> Deb. Have you considered having an assessment done on the home?



I did have one done, but that was a few years after my mom passed. It is probably not worth the paper it's written on now.

This is what it says about my house on the county assessment website:


----------



## StarSong

@debodun, please take that image down or crop out identifying information.  It's not safe to publish your address on a forum.


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> I did have one done, but that was a few years after my mom passed. It is probably not worth the paper it's written on now.
> 
> This is what it says about my house on the county assessment website:
> 
> View attachment 111082


It's worth a lot of money, Deb. So long as the structure itself is solid, investing $20K -$30K to clean things up and bring a few things up to snuff, not only would be an easy sell for me, but it would bring the home closer to being a market contender if you decided to sell down the road.

I know you're waiting to hear back from a few contractors, but what my hubby would love to see you do, is have an overall assessment done as to how much you would need to spend to revive the home, that way you would be able to sit down with figures in hand and weigh-over the pros and cons. Would be a terrible shame to let the house go for cheap (give it away), versus spending a little to tidy things up and enjoying a higher return (resale) if that's what you decided to do, or if you choose to remain living in the home, taking comfort in knowing you will be able to live safe and sound for years to come.

I see it as a win-win situation whatever you do, but you deserve better than to be living in a home with broken ceilings and an electrical system on the fritz.


----------



## debodun

Here's a whole house for rent about 2 miles from me. Doesn't say if the owner does the lawn mowing. I don't see a garage, either.


https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/60-Colonial-Rd_Stillwater_NY_12170_M38564-78913


----------



## StarSong

debodun said:


> Here's a whole house for rent about 2 miles from me. Doesn't say if the owner does the lawn mowing. I don't see a garage, either.
> 
> 
> https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/60-Colonial-Rd_Stillwater_NY_12170_M38564-78913


Would you really consider renting a two story, 5 BR, 3 BA, 2600 SF house on nearly half an acre just for yourself, @debodun?


----------



## RadishRose

Are you opening a B&B Deb? Or a homeless shelter, a battered women's shelter or a boarding house?


----------



## debodun

It's what's available here.

This is in an apartment in the next town. I don't like the stove placement - I'd be banging my ankles on that baseboard heater all the time.


----------



## Keesha

I doubt that stove is even to code. It looks dangerous.


----------



## debodun

Well, my search for a contractor is fizzling out. The few that replied have either retired from the business or aren't working at the moment because of illness or injury. Some I am getting failure notices from the email addresses I have for them. Still waiting to hear back from a few, but I assume if I haven't heard by now, they either aren't interested, too busy, or for the other reasons cited here. I called one from which I had a business card and a woman answered. I asked to speak to Mr. XXXXX. She asked me why and I told her I had a business card from him indicating he did contracting. She asked how old the business card I had was. I couldn't remember and she said she was his widow and he had passed away in 2004! How was I to know that?


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> It's what's available here.
> 
> This is in an apartment in the next town. I don't like the stove placement - I'd be banging my ankles on that baseboard heater all the time.
> 
> View attachment 111088


You'd be banging your elbows, too. Very strange stove setup.


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> It's what's available here.
> 
> This is in an apartment in the next town. I don't like the stove placement - I'd be banging my ankles on that baseboard heater all the time.
> 
> View attachment 111088


Even goofier than the setup of the stove, is how ridiculously absurd it would be to move the stove to wash under it! I mean whoever dreamed that setup has a geranium in their cranium (I believe it was Dear Abby, that coined that term)!


----------



## debodun

I did hear from the county. Apparently I contacted the wrong department first and my message was forwarded. This is the answer to my inquiry:
_
Unfortunately, we don't keep a listing of maintenance contractors and can't recommend one over another. There's a program called Umbrella that can sometimes help with locating and hiring someone at a reduced rate. Their website is_ www.theumbrella.org 

I have a vague memory of contacting them years ago. I found out that you have to pay Umbrella to find a contractor, then you have to pay the contractor on top of that. So where's the savings?


----------



## debodun

This is the page for that apartment with other views. Most apartments have  refrigerator with freezer-on-top style. I prefer freezer-on-bottom. The bathroom sink looks miniscule and it's too close to the door.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/S-2nd-Ave-Mechanicville-NY-12118/2080668570_zpid/


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> I did hear from the county. Apparently I contacted the wrong department first and my message was forwarded. This is the answer to my inquiry:
> 
> _Unfortunately, we don't keep a listing of maintenance contractors and can't recommend one over another. There's a program called Umbrella that can sometimes help with locating and hiring someone at a reduced rate. Their website is_ www.theumbrella.org
> 
> I have a vague memory of contacting them years ago. I found out that you have to pay Umbrella to find a contractor, then you have to pay the contractor on top of that. So where's the savings?


No, don't do it, Deb, that's a rip-off!

How about an ad in the paper? Maybe you have an advertising type newspaper that comes our regularly. Another option, ask around your immediate neighbourhood as to anyone knowing anyone that does handyman work. Word of mouth is a powerful thing.


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> This is the page for that apartment with other views. Most apartments have  refrigerator with freezer-on-top style. I prefer freezer-on-bottom.
> 
> https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/S-2nd-Ave-Mechanicville-NY-12118/2080668570_zpid/


Goodness gracious! The way the refrigerator stands out from the wall and into the room! Totally off-the-wall - and away from the wall, too! 

Here's hoping the individual that designed the layout of that kitchen hangs onto their day job, because they sure weren't born with the talent for designing the layout of kitchens in homes.


----------



## Keesha

Aunt Marg said:


> You'd be banging your elbows, too. Very strange stove setup.


Lol yeah. 





debodun said:


> This is the page for that apartment with other views. Most apartments have  refrigerator with freezer-on-top style. I prefer freezer-on-bottom. The bathroom sink looks miniscule and it's too close to the door.
> 
> https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/S-2nd-Ave-Mechanicville-NY-12118/2080668570_zpid/


Thats a pathetic looking apartment. The kitchen looks like an afterthought. Like.. hey if a fridge and stove fit in the room, we’ll call it a kitchen. Plus if the owners are willing to put an oven right up against an inner wall, what else  have they done that’s not seen? I wouldn’t consider that. There’s much better out there. Why not look in a different area?


----------



## Keesha

Aunt Marg said:


> Goodness gracious! The way the refrigerator stands out from the wall and into the room! Totally off-the-wall - and away from the wall, too!
> 
> Here's hoping the individual that designed the layout of that kitchen hangs onto their day job, because they sure weren't born with the talent for designing the layout of kitchens in homes.


My thoughts exactly. And if they are bold enough to think this is ok, what other types of things are wrong that we can’t see?


----------



## Aunt Marg

Keesha said:


> St
> 
> Thats a pathetic looking apartment. The kitchen looks like an afterthought. Like.. hey if a fridge and stove fit in the room, we’ll call it a kitchen. Plus if the owners are willing to put an oven right up against an inner wall, whatever have they done that’s not seen. I wouldn’t consider that. There’s much better out there. Why not look in a different area?


I agree, Keesha! I've been sitting here staring at that kitchen, shaking my head back and forth, and now I'm down to chuckling. I've seen bad before, but this kitchen is the icing! ROFLMAO!


----------



## Keesha

Aunt Marg said:


> I agree, Keesha! I've been sitting here staring at that kitchen, shaking my head back and forth, and now I'm down to chuckling. I've seen bad before, but this kitchen is the icing! ROFLMAO!


I know!!! It’s scary !  Luckily there’s no stairs to climb!


----------



## Keesha

I’d be looking for something closer to this
https://www.apartments.com/rosemont-brookhaven-bellport-ny/em9qpvp/
It’s bright, classy, clean, luxurious and has an separate garage. It’s NICE! No one bedrooms left.


----------



## Keesha

Deb should just let us pick something for her


----------



## Aunt Marg

Keesha said:


> I’d be looking for something closer to this
> https://www.apartments.com/rosemont-brookhaven-bellport-ny/em9qpvp/
> It’s bright, classy, clean, luxurious and has an separate garage. It’s NICE! No one bedrooms left.


Absolutely gorgeous!


----------



## Knight

StarSong said:


> Would you really consider renting a two story, 5 BR, 3 BA, 2600 SF house on nearly half an acre just for yourself, @debodun?


If our home was badly deteriorated I'd move in a heartbeat. Thankfully I've enough skill in home repair & renovation we've always made a huge profit when we moved. Since debodun indicated moving isn't an issue, she says she doesn't qualify for assistance programs. Why not look outside of a high cost area.

Compare the home she was looking at to these.  



$90,000 4 bd 4 ba 3,197 sqft
Price cut: $15K (5/27)2268 Crabtree Ln, Johnstown, PA 15905
For saleZestimate®: $84,805

Est. payment: 
$490/mo


$99,000 3 bd 2 ba 1,294 sqft
287 Candler Ln, Johnstown, PA 15909
For saleZestimate®: $99,000

Est. payment: 
$539/mo


$227,900 4 bd 3 ba 2,429 sqft
2136 Ellsworth St, Johnstown, PA 15905
For saleZestimate®: $226,964

Est. payment: 
$1,188/mo


Johnstown Real Estate - Johnstown PA Homes For Sale | Zillowwww.zillow.com › johnstown-pa

There are many more that could suit any budget.


----------



## Aneeda72

You might have termites as well.

Its really seems too late to fix your house.  Looks like you will have to sell it for the land value.  I don’t know your finances but if you make under 25,000 a year, I wouldn’t put another dime into it.  Move out, get your stuff safe, and then put it up for sale and let it be someone else’s headache.

There are probably flippers in your area who buy homes quickly.  We sold a house to a flipper and it’s easy and fast.  Living in a house without adequate wiring makes it a death trap.  What I don’t understand, is why you let it get in such poor shape over the years.

Why didn’t you keep it up as the years passed?  I see a lot of people in this position so I am curious.  It’s the same with the house husband just bought.  As soon as we moved in we had to make several emergency repairs including the electrical and plumbing.  Houses are such money pits.


----------



## Keesha

Houses are ‘supposed’ to be your biggest investment so if you take care of them, when you go to sell them, you get top dollar and not a pile of headaches.

I don’t think Deb knew how badly her house was falling apart until recently which is  why she’s doing all she can now to ‘right’ the situation.

I think I’d also just sell it as is. I’m not sure she’ll get back the money invested, never mind the time and energy it will take.

If I were Deb, I’d be looking for an area I’d like to live in first. Something completely different than what she’s had. Since she has some problems with excessively worrying about the neighbours, I’d find a little place amongst others where I’d have a bit of land so will have some needed space.

She will love, love, this part. Have plenty of neighbours around which she’ll warm up to since she’s  going to want and need them as she gets older since she has no children watching out for her.

Deb, you are quite a bit like my parents so  I’m betting you have plenty of money to step it up a notch and live a better, more luxurious life. If it were up to my parents in their last years, they would have tried to stay in their house and been even more frugal with their money. They clung on to money so tight that it was so difficult to convince them that spending their money ON THEMSELVES was the wisest choice they could make. They could have a better life. Be around other people their own age, get all their meals made, get all their laundry and housekeeping done. Not that you’re here yet. I’m just talking mindset here.

Retirement living areas is something to seriously consider. We have areas not too far from here that are neighbourhoods for seniors only and these people are seriously happy. They are living independently in their own houses, which are beautiful or apartments, or units,  yet getting benefits of retirement living. Yard maintenance is cared for , there’s special activities, a church and fellowship, plenty of outtings and things to do. It’s seriously something to consider and I think you’d actually like it.

It was miraculous how my parents resisted the nursing home idea with every ounce of energy they had but once they moved there they loved it and their health improved. Of course they are much older than you so at a different stage but similar mindset.

Live your existing life for you. Find the nicest area, the finest houses or apartments and start a better life and lifestyle. It will be your greatest investment. Your health will improve.
People need people especially when they get older. At least consider it.


----------



## gennie

And in the meantime, be sure that (1) working smoke detectors are in every room (2) there is adequate fire insurance and the bill is kept paid (3) and you are sleeping near an outside door.


----------



## debodun

Aneeda72 said:


> Why didn’t you keep it up as the years passed?



I've been trying, but sometimes thing are wrong you don't know about until they are quite obvious. I feel like I am trying to pedal a bike up a 70° hill trying to keep up the maintenance. Then when I do, I am usually ripped off. In 2010, I paid a guy $4000 to paint the front porch. It looked great when he finished so I paid him. Over the next winter, the paint peeled off in sheets. I contacted him and said that my father poainted that porch in 1976 and the paint lasted 25 years. He replied that that kind of paint isn't available anymore. It was probably oil-base paint. I don't even think he bothered to strip off the old paint - he just painted over it. And the quality of the paint was one step above whitewash.  

Three years ago I had a handyman in to fix 2 doors that wouldn't shut - they were hitting the jamb, or the hinges were warped or something. He fixed one and said he'd come back to work on the other in a week or so. I asked if he wanted to be paid for his work to date and he said we'd settle when he finished the second door. I am still waiting for him to return. This leaves an awkward situation.


----------



## Aunt Marg

Aneeda72 said:


> You might have termites as well.
> *
> Its really seems too late to fix your house.  Looks like you will have to sell it for the land value.*  I don’t know your finances but if you make under 25,000 a year, I wouldn’t put another dime into it.  Move out, get your stuff safe, and then put it up for sale and let it be someone else’s headache.
> 
> There are probably flippers in your area who buy homes quickly.  We sold a house to a flipper and it’s easy and fast.  Living in a house without adequate wiring makes it a death trap.  What I don’t understand, is why you let it get in such poor shape over the years.
> 
> Why didn’t you keep it up as the years passed?  I see a lot of people in this position so I am curious.  It’s the same with the house husband just bought.  As soon as we moved in we had to make several emergency repairs including the electrical and plumbing.  Houses are such money pits.


Very poor advice.


----------



## debodun

My extent of ability in home repairs. There - I fixed that problem! The band-aid approach - literally.


----------



## Knight

Deb would it be reasonable to think you grew up in that house, lived there all your life & inherited it.  So you never had a mortgage payment so the thought of moving isn't on your radar.  Do you have a Home Depot or Lowes near you?  They usually offer home repair by qualified people & stand behind the work done.  Since an apartment located here maybe this would work for you .
https://www.homedepot.com/services/l/ny/mechanicville


----------



## debodun

I was just at Lowe's. I stop there because it is on my side of Route 9, otherwise I'd have to cross the busy highway to get to HD. Try to get anyone's attention, though, when you're an old lady in a hardware store. That's why I ended up with the wrong paint.

Many suggestions were made about moving to another locale entirely. I am familiar with this area and where everything is here. I don't want to move too far away.

Knight - I didn't grow up in that house. My parents bought it when I was 23 years old!

This is the house I grew up in (photo from the county tax database). Some changes have been made, but it looks in worse shape than mine.


----------



## Don M.

I hate to "contract" any home or household repairs.  The few times I've done so in the past have been a bit disappointing....the sole exception being when we had a new roof installed by a local Mennonite contractor....those people are quite honest.  Anything else that occurs, I can usually handle myself, OR it's time to buy a new appliance, etc.  

Unfortunately, single/elderly women, who have limited experience/knowledge of home maintenance are often given shoddy and overpriced work. 

If something were to happen to me, I would want my wife to sell our place ASAP, and move to a place where she didn't have to put up with these kinds of hassles.


----------



## debodun

Don M. said:


> I hate to "contract" any home or household repairs.  The few times I've done so in the past have been a bit disappointing....the sole exception being when we had a new roof installed by a local Mennonite contractor....those people are quite honest.  Anything else that occurs, I can usually handle myself, OR it's time to buy a new appliance, etc.
> 
> Unfortunately, single/elderly women, who have limited experience/knowledge of home maintenance are often given shoddy and overpriced work.
> 
> If something were to happen to me, I would want my wife to sell our place ASAP, and move to a place where she didn't have to put up with these kinds of hassles.



I totally sympathize, Don.


----------



## Judycat

I'm going to live in my house until it collapses upon me. I will probably be dead already so it won't matter. They will find me half eaten by cats and possums under the rubble. People will say they wondered what happened to me since they hadn't seen me in a while.


----------



## debodun

The problem with an apartment complex is that I probably wouldn't get along with my neighbors there anymore than I do here.


----------



## JaniceM

debodun said:


> The problem with an apartment complex is that I probably wouldn't get along with my neighbors there anymore than I do here.


Or you could pick up some obnoxious habits, and then YOU annoy THEM!  

Seriously, though, from your pics and descriptions, I'd be concerned the ceiling/roof might 'go,' or a fire could break out.


----------



## RadishRose

debodun said:


> The problem with an apartment complex is that I probably wouldn't get along with my neighbors there anymore than I do here.


It's only a problem if you want it to be, Deb.
Try to be more friendly, or stay to yourself.
The choice is yours.


----------



## Knight

debodun said:


> I was just at Lowe's. I stop there because it is on my side of Route 9, otherwise I'd have to cross the busy highway to get to HD. Try to get anyone's attention, though, when you're an old lady in a hardware store. That's why I ended up with the wrong paint.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 111188


You must live in a terrible area because when my 75 yr. old wife shops at Home Depot the staff at any of the 3 HD stores near us are eager to be helpful.  I don't understand how you get home if you don't cross the highway to get back home. 

Not really understanding your reply,  did you live in the home your parents bought when you were 23 or did you move in when you inherited it?


----------



## debodun

Knight said:


> Not really understanding your reply,  did you live in the home your parents bought when you were 23 or did you move in when you inherited it?



I lived there.


----------



## Keesha

Knight said:


> You must live in a terrible area because when my 75 yr. old wife shops at Home Depot the staff at any of the 3 HD stores near us are eager to be helpful.  I don't understand how you get home if you don't cross the highway to get back home.
> 
> Not really understanding your reply,  did you live in the home your parents bought when you were 23 or did you move in when you inherited it?


I don’t understand it either. I’m not as old as you and I get great service whether I’m with my husband or on my own. In fact I find the opposite, people are very willing to help.
We had to get our satellite fixed since our trees have grown so much and our blocking our reception. The other day a gentleman came to door to fix/move our satellite and was most receptive and respectful and I’m not always the most friendly. I’ve been known to growl at people.


debodun said:


> The problem with an apartment complex is that I probably wouldn't get along with my neighbors there anymore than I do here.


Usually in apartment buildings you don’t often see your neighbours unless you share the elevator or open the door to peek at them.


----------



## debodun

Well, I had to ask where the mortar mix was. After hunting for 10 minutes, I managed to find a clerk and ask. He just made a vague gesture over his shoulder. Not very helpful in a 50,000 sq ft store. I really didn't see many store employees in their red vests.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> Well, I had to ask where the mortar mix was. After hunting for 10 minutes, I managed to find a clerk and ask. He just made a vague gesture over his shoulder. Not very helpful in a 50,000 sq ft store. I really didn't see many store employees in their red vests.


Oh I’d literally hunt them down until I get the service that they are being paid to provide. I’m friendly but super persistent. If I’m going to drive 1/2 an hour to a store I’m not going home till I get what I went for and I don’t care how many people I piss off.


----------



## debodun

I am willing to bet that if I was a 20-something and attarctive, I'd have clerks falling over themselves to help. 

I haven't heard from the roofer that was here on June 11 and said he'd get back to me in a day or two with a quote. I just called him and he said he mailed it to me and got it back as undeliverable. I asked him what address he mailed it to and he gave my house address. Why would he assume I get my mail at home? He could have asked me what was the correct address was. The post office doesn't deliver unless the box number shows somewhere in the address.  I would have told him, but from his comments, I assumed it would be a phone call.


----------



## Keesha

So why not contact the guy who gave you a quote to get most of the major house repairs done?

The reason why I’m somewhat concerned is that the type of damage you are needing can get bad real fast. Yes having a roof over your head is important but if you’re house is leaking water then it’s a mould problem waiting to happen, not to mention the rodents that will find their way in. Unless you’re going to get all this work done and soon, your house will fall apart and you aren’t getting any younger.

If you have THIS much trouble getting help now, I don’t think it’s going to get easier. Trust me; I’ve dealt with older stubborn people and it’s scary what conditions they are willing to put up with because they either no longer care or don’t know any better due to dementia 

If you want to stay in the area, then start making a list of places you’d consider like you are doing now. At least you are taking all this seriously.

There really are nice places to live. That house has to be a nightmare to care for.


----------



## debodun

I knew when I pulled that vine down, I'd find trouble. I went out this morning and cut back where it had started to grow again. That THING sends runners underground all over. It is coming up on the other side of the house and I know that it had to have sent runners under the house to do that. Probably the only thing holding the porch on the house! It was even sending growth up into the attic. I pulled on one part and got a 10 ft root in my hand like a long spindly cord. Never get wisteria or Boston ivy!


----------



## debodun

The cellar is always damp. Not standing water, but I can see along the south wall floor it is damp. It was okay until that absentee landlord next door built an extension out back so he's have another apartment to rent. It's that white part sticking out on the left. The only time the cellar floor looks dry is mid-winter - probably because the ground water is frozen. When it rains hard or for a long tome, the water pours off his roof between the houses like Niagara Falls. The he puts a rain diverting hose where the rain hits the ground between the houses.


----------



## Keesha

You could still probably get good money for it. There are plenty of contractors and business people willing to take on a project like this.
My main concern is that if you are having these types of problems now then they are only going to get worse over time.

You might consider speaking to a realtor to see what they have to say. They will let you know what it’s worth now and might even know contractors that can do the work. They’d have a better idea of what to do since they can actually SEE the house.

You’ve got a car so you can get out and look around. Some places are so nice there are waiting lists to get in.
No need to make any hasty decisions as long as you’re on top of it and understand what you’re dealing with which I believe you ‘now’ do. 

Soon you could have plenty of people helping you.


----------



## Keesha

When’s the last time those second story gutters were cleaned ?
And what’s  more worrisome is if there’s no downspout where is the water going? That’s a major concern right there. Downspouts are made to take water away from your house. With no downspouts and all kinds of holes in your house from the roots of the wisteria & ivy, you’ve got plenty of places for all that water to find a place to sit.


----------



## debodun

Keesha said:


> When’s the last time those second story gutters were cleaned ?


If you're referring to the house next door, I can't answer that - it's up to the landlord to have his property serviced. He has a guy come every few weeks to mow the lawn. Maybe he isn't aware there is a problem with his downspout - they's why it's overflowing.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> If you're referring to the house next door, I can't answer that - it's up to the landlord to have his property serviced. He has a guy come every few weeks to mow the lawn. Maybe he isn't aware there is a problem with his downspout - they's why it's overflowing.


No! I’m referring to your house. You have downspouts for your deck porch but there are no downspouts for your upstairs gutters. You mentioned this when I asked you about it. You said the last contractor you had mentioned it but said your house was too high and they didn’t have the equipment plus that you needed some trees cut so it never got done. 

Your trees are trimmed down now. You had them done last year. 

I don’t particularly care about your neighbours house


----------



## debodun

Keesha said:


> You could still probably get good money for it. There are plenty of contractors and business people willing to take on a project like this.
> My main concern is that if you are having these types of problems now then they are only going to get worse over time.
> 
> You might consider speaking to a realtor to see what they have to say. They will let you know what it’s worth now and might even know contractors that can do the work. They’d have a better idea of what to do since they can actually SEE the house.
> 
> You’ve got a car so you can get out and look around. Some places are so nice there are waiting lists to get in.
> No need to make any hasty decisions as long as you’re on top of it and understand what you’re dealing with which I believe you ‘now’ know.
> 
> Soon you could have plenty of people helping you.



I see ads on TV all the time about these businesses that buy houses for cash. They never ay they give you a fair market value, though. I think they take advantage of people desperate to sell to settle an estate or other reasons. I did investigate senior housing a few years ago - the nice places were expensive and had too may rules. The cheapest I looked at was $1450 a month, but they were ticky-tacky rooms with no amenities and were much like the apartment photos I posted earlier. Before I sell, I have to have someplace to go.


----------



## debodun

Keesha said:


> No! I’m referring to your house. You have downspouts for your deck porch but there are no downspouts for your upstairs gutters. You mentioned this when I asked you about it. You said the last contractor you had mentioned it but said your house was too high and they didn’t have the equipment plus that you needed some trees cut so it never got done.


There are no gutters OR downspouts on the second story of my house. The trees have nothing to do with the gutter contractor saying the house was too high. He never mentioned the trees - that was the electrician that wanted the yew bush cut back.


----------



## Keesha

Absolutely don’t get rushed to sell too quickly but don’t hang onto it forever or you will lose out in the end. If however you keep at this at the rate you’re going, I think you can get a fair exchange for your house AND find an awesome place to stay whether that’s a condominium you purchase or a place you rent. You’ve got plenty of time. Just don’t get so stubborn that you pass up a good offer  to sell


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> There are no gutters OR downspouts on the second story of my house. The trees have nothing to do with the gutter contractor saying the house was too high. He never mentioned the trees - that was the electrician that wanted the yew bush cut back.


Ok my mistake. So how does the rain run off your top floor?


----------



## debodun

I guess it just slides down the roof to the eaves and drops off, but not like the Niagara falls next door. My roof is sectioned and pitched. Next door has a flat roof and slightly sloped toward my house so all the rain that falls on it is channeled into the same place.

I did look into that umbrella service, but they seem very limited as to what they can do - no roofing or masonry. They employ seniors, who of course, have limited physical abilities.

http://www.theumbrella.org/how-it-works.html


----------



## debodun

The neighbor on the other side is a very responsible homeowner. Each year he has a "project" done to the house. A few years ago he had a new porch put on, then he got a few new windows put in and last year he had his trim painted. He also plants lovely flower gardens around the house foundation. My foundation is the pokeweed jungle of the county. Nothing going on over there this year I can see. He's been out of work for awhile because of the pandemic, so he probably doesn't have as much to invest this year.


----------



## hollydolly

debodun said:


> The neighbor on the other side is a very responsible homeowner. Each year he has a "project" done to the house. A few years ago he had a new porch put on, then he got a few new windows put in and last year he had his trim painted. He also plants lovely flower gardens around the house foundation. My foundation is the pokeweed jungle of the county. Nothing going on over there this year I can see. He's been out of work for awhile because of the pandemic, so he probably doesn't have as much to invest this year.


Could you not use the contractors your neighbour uses Deb ?


----------



## Knight

debodun said:


> I see ads on TV all the time about these businesses that buy houses for cash. They never ay they give you a fair market value, though. I think they take advantage of people desperate to sell to settle an estate or other reasons. I did investigate senior housing a few years ago - the nice places were expensive and had too may rules. The cheapest I looked at was $1450 a month, but they were ticky-tacky rooms with no amenities and were much like the apartment photos I posted earlier. Before I sell, I have to have someplace to go.


Reading all these makes me happy I married a woman that has no fear of relocating. $1450.00 a month to rent ticky-tacky rooms with no amenities  unbelievable. 

Google this to see what about $100.00 a month less than that apartment would get you. 
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2136-Ellsworth-St_Johnstown_PA_15905_M37704-95530

And yes I know that moving from where you live is out of the question. I'm just amazed at what is possible if a person could get if they had an adventurous spirit.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> The neighbor on the other side is a very responsible homeowner. Each year he has a "project" done to the house. A few years ago he had a new porch put on, then he got a few new windows put in and last year he had his trim painted. He also plants lovely flower gardens around the house foundation. My foundation is the pokeweed jungle of the county. Nothing going on over there this year I can see. He's been out of work for awhile because of the pandemic, so he probably doesn't have as much to invest this year.


Or maybe he’s just being extra cautious about people coming to his house due to this pandemic but what a great neighbour to get a reference from. What a perfect starting point to say why you’re visiting. You really admire how nicely kept his place is so are hoping you could get the contact info from him. He may know more qualified people than you and might be happy to help out. Most people like helping others out if it’s not too much


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> I knew when I pulled that vine down, I'd find trouble. I went out this morning and cut back where it had started to grow again. That THING sends runners underground all over. It is coming up on the other side of the house and I know that it had to have sent runners under the house to do that. Probably the only thing holding the porch on the house! It was even sending growth up into the attic. I pulled on one part and got a 10 ft root in my hand like a long spindly cord. Never get wisteria or Boston ivy!
> 
> View attachment 111209


My rule of thumb is stay away from ALL crawlers and creepers.


----------



## debodun

Some pics of the cellar floor along the south wall. I looked into getting this fixed many years ago and the estimates were between $9000 and $14,000 and no one would warranty their work. One even said his work was only guaranteed until after the first rain, then I was on my own. His idea of fixing cellar dampness was to just spray some compound on the walls.


----------



## debodun

This is the senior apartment complex I mentioned. Even though it got a 5-star rating, someone that reviewed it did not like it very much.

https://www.apartments.com/falcon-trace-active-adult-living-clifton-park-ny/ylhe5mr/


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> Some pics of the cellar floor along the south wall:
> 
> View attachment 111315View attachment 111316View attachment 111317


It looks as though your basement walls are built out of stone and mortar?


----------



## debodun

Stone and some kind of binder - maybe concrete.


----------



## StarSong

What's the attraction to staying in that house, Deb?  It's literally crumbling around you and the maintenance/repairs are likely to be several tens of thousands of dollars, perhaps more.  

Why not call a realtor and find out what the place is worth? While you're at it, ask about rentals and houses within a 25 mile radius. Zillow is a fine starting point, but realtors are the true experts. 

Don't you think it's time to stop speculating and get some real information?


----------



## debodun

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/how-to-find-a-good-contractor


----------



## RadishRose

debodun said:


> This is the senior apartment complex I mentioned. Even though it got a 5-star rating, someone that reviewed it did not like it very much.
> 
> https://www.apartments.com/falcon-trace-active-adult-living-clifton-park-ny/ylhe5mr/


Do you think your house is better?


----------



## Knight

Repair roof under structure & replace roof, upgrade electrical, inspect & replace plumbing as needed, repair all brick that is falling out, repair 30 window casements & replace those 30 windows, leak proof and repair walls in basement, repair ceilings that have fallen. Many many thousands in repair & replace costs. 

Sentimental value to live in the inherited house --- priceless


----------



## debodun

Knight said:


> Repair roof under structure & replace roof, upgrade electrical, inspect & replace plumbing as needed, repair all brick that is falling out, repair 30 window casements & replace those 30 windows, leak proof and repair walls in basement, repair ceilings that have fallen. Many many thousands in repair & replace costs.
> 
> Sentimental value to live in the inherited house --- priceless




I am overwhelmed. I am not sure what is the most important thing to do first. I run from one repair to the other trying to find a guy to work on it.


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> I am overwhelmed. I am not sure what is the most important thing to do first. I run from one repair to the other trying to find a guy to work on it.


I still think your best bet would be to approach your local stores such as Home Depot, etc, and ask for a list of contractors who frequent those stores. That, or put an ad in the paper.


----------



## squatting dog

Man, I hate to be the one to say it, but, the more pictures I see of your house, the more $$$$ I see going down an endless drain.   Looking at the basement, the 9 to 14 estimate is cheap. and I know why there'd be no guarantee. To fix that right, one needs to go outside the house and excavate all around the foundation and install piping and gravel for underground drainage (assuming the soil isn't clay based) before even attempting to fix the inside walls. That my friend does not come cheap. As for the plaster falling in the kitchen, I'd say the roof or some of the brickwork is seriously leaking and the water is finding it's way down. (you will never find a leak where the water puddles, it will travel to there). Throw in the electrical system and I'm sorry but this house is literally crumbling under you and becoming a danger to you.
It's all nice to sit from afar and say fix it and then sell, but, this is beginning to look like an endless money pit.


----------



## Aunt Marg

In additional to, Deb, store contractors, the guys (and gals) that actually are hired by chain stores to install flooring, cabinetry, etc, are held accountable, so while you may pay a little more for such services, you are pretty much guaranteed a job well done in the end, and it will be done right.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> This is the senior apartment complex I mentioned. Even though it got a 5-star rating, someone that reviewed it did not like it very much.
> 
> https://www.apartments.com/falcon-trace-active-adult-living-clifton-park-ny/ylhe5mr/


If you are seeking to find what is wrong more than what is right, you are guaranteed to find it. 

Why would you want to focus on the most negative review when it’s a 5 star apartment complex? 

This type of thinking will keep you from traveling straight forward to your goal destination


----------



## Aunt Marg

noopdoggy said:


> Lotsa of bad advice by keyboard commandos.. Having had many houses, repaired and built. I wouldn't let my chickens live in this place you call a house. get out now before your health,well being and bank account are ruined. What a pile of rubble.. I bet you have to hold your nose to live there. yick!


The only thing missing on this forum is an oversized toilet to flush posts just like yours.

Not only are your entries insulting to the homeowner, their equally as insulting to members as myself, who have taken the time to drop-by this topic and extend our experiences, advice, and support of Deb, the homeowner.

Your two posts have been reported.


----------



## Keesha

noopdoggy said:


> Bad health due to mold, mildew and possibility of danger.. PRICELESS..


Most people don’t realize how bad this is on their health. No amount of sentiment can account for poor health


----------



## Knight

Aunt Marg said:


> In additional to, Deb, store contractors, the guys (and gals) that actually are hired by chain stores to install flooring, cabinetry, etc, are held accountable, so while you may pay a little more for such services, you are pretty much guaranteed a job well done in the end, and it will be done right.


I recommended that but like most of the other suggestions an excuse for not at least having a general contractor from either Home Depot or Lowes come over to give an estimate was ignored. 

It's not like deb doesn't recognize the house is a disaster  just look at how she titled this thread.


----------



## Keesha

I’m not for supporting Deb if I think she’s making a bad decision. I think she’s in denial about how bad the house really is at the moment and how much it will cost to restore a house like this. 

Even if she decides to stay and get it fixed, her health is certainly at risk. If she’s got windows rotting away so badly that all the brick and mortar is literally crumbling under each  of the 30 windows, that’s bad. She’s got vine roots growing in her attack and it’s damp. Considering heat rises and water falls, this house is a health hazard.

What do I think is more important?
Debs health and well being over  fixing the house. Sometimes in life you have to know when to hang on and when to let go and this is definitely one of those times.

Knowing the damage adding a back deck without flashing did to our back wall was certainly eye opening and took a lot amount of money and work. It’s shocking what you see inside the walls when there’s water damage. The wood holding the house up can turn to sawdust.


----------



## debodun

noopdoggy said:


> I bet you have to hold your nose to live there. yick!



I am probably used to it, but other people that have been inside usually comment on the odor. My mom, having had many cats over the years, doesn't help, either. Look what they did to the floor in one area. I can't even open the door there because the floor is so warped from the moisture:


----------



## StarSong

debodun said:


> I am probably used to it, but other people that have been inside usually comment on the odor. My mom, having had many cats over the years, doesn't help, either. Look what they did to the floor in one area. I can't even open the door there because the floor is so warped from the moisture:
> 
> View attachment 111331


If you're trying to convince us that your house is beyond your ability to repair it or live in it, you did that with your first few posts.  Now you have to convince yourself and act on it.


----------



## RadishRose

You said your mother was advised 25  years ago the house needed to be re-plumbed.


----------



## debodun

I pointed out many times to her the things need to be done, but she never wanted contractors working and disturbing her routine and tranquility. Since it was her house at the time, there's nothing I could do about it. I have already spent thousands on it and it doesn't look any better. I get rid if the vine and find deteriorated mortar. I have the porch painted and then find sheets of latex paint hanging down. I had the front roof re-shingled and the workers bent the rain gutter by leaning their ladder against it and wouldn't admit it (see photo). Everything I have done requires more work to fix. After a while it just gets discouraging realizing I am throwing good money after bad; pedaling the bike faster and faster but not going anywhere.


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> I pointed out many times to her the things need to be done, but she never wanted contractors working and disturbing her routine and tranquility. Since it was her house at the time, there's nothing I could do about it. I have already spent thousands on it and it doesn't look any better. I get rid if the vine and find deteriorated mortar. I have the porch painted and then find sheets of latex paint hanging down. I had the front roof re-shingled and the workers bent the rain gutter by leaning their ladder against it and wouldn't admit it (see photo). Everything I have done requires more work to fix. After a while it just gets discouraging realizing I am throwing good money after bad; pedaling the bike faster and faster but not going anywhere.
> 
> View attachment 111334


As overwhelming at it may seem, you have to start somewhere, Deb, and that's starting with one or two people who have a good solid understanding related to all things construction. Bent and/or sagging gutters are unimportant for now.

What I'd love to see is you have the moisture damage under your windows repaired, the ceiling in your kitchen redone, have your wiring looked at, along with whatever plumbing may be causing you grief, and from there you can move forward with whatever else you may want to change, replace, or redo.

Cleaning up and rectifying the worst of it is important, not only from the standpoint of your health and safety, but from the standpoint of resale value. Having a professional walk you through all that needs doing will bring you up to speed on what exactly you'll be looking at (work needing done, time, money, yada-yada), and then you'll be able to weigh and mull things over.

Sometimes things look worse than they are, and once one or two things are repaired, more often than not, that's all that's needed to inspire you to get busy on the rest.

I don't believe for a minute that your home is a lost cause, and at the end of the day, taking a huge hit on resale vs spending a little to get back a lot, AND, at the same time being able to enjoy a safe, healthy, and liveable home, makes more sense.


----------



## squatting dog

Not sure what county you're in, but, in Saratoga county I found a few inspection charts...But remember, these are average and things like multi story buildings are usually higher.
This is where I would start.

electrical insp.    plumbing inspec.    foundation insp.     mold insp      roof insp.                  Total average
low    104           low  101                  low  1203                low    274      low     103*               low    1785
high   840          high  732                 high 2054                high  430      high    829*               high   4885

* 2 story or more will be higher


----------



## debodun

Yes I am in Saratoga County and I have a 2-story home, 2500 sq ft.


----------



## Knight

Deb you have pictures & explanations throughout this thread of the home you live in. What you haven't explained since you know your home is as you put it "A disaster in home repairs" why you don't move. What is keeping you in that home?


----------



## Don M.

debodun said:


> Yes I am in Saratoga County and I have a 2-story home, 2500 sq ft.



Based upon everything you have said, and the pictures you have posted, I would guess that if someone from the State Health Department ever inspected this house, they would say it is "unfit for human habitation".   

Not only does it seem to be falling apart, but the fact that there is so much water damage would be a Strong indicator that Mold and Mildew is rapidly taking over the entire structure.  This alone, is a major hazard that will eventually destroy your health if you continue to live there.  

Donate it to a charity, and let them figure out if they can reap any benefits from it....perhaps the land it is sitting on has some value....the house, itself, would cost far more than it is worth to make it liveable.  

At any rate, start making plans to move....Soon.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> I am probably used to it, but other people that have been inside usually comment on the odor. My mom, having had many cats over the years, doesn't help, either. Look what they did to the floor in one area. I can't even open the door there because the floor is so warped from the moisture:
> 
> View attachment 111331


And how long has this floor been like this? What’s the reason you didn’t get it fixed? Isn’t parting with money the main issue? Aren’t you trying to get list of contractors so you can find the cheapest price possible?

With all this water/pee damage in your house, it can’t be a healthy place to live. I think even renting a different place for a month, you’ll find a vast improvement. You don’t know the damage it’s doing and how it’s affecting your health ‘cause you don’t know any different

You know you aren’t going to get all these repairs done. I know I’m sounding like a pessimist but I’ve lived with people just this and trying to get them to see things differently is basically impossible. It’s an ingrained mindset that’s not going to change any time soon.


----------



## Keesha

Don M. said:


> Based upon everything you have said, and the pictures you have posted, I would guess that if someone from the State Health Department ever inspected this house, they would say it is "unfit for human habitation".
> 
> Not only does it seem to be falling apart, but the fact that there is so much water damage would be a Strong indicator that Mold and Mildew is rapidly taking over the entire structure.  This alone, is a major hazard that will eventually destroy your health if you continue to live there.
> 
> Donate it to a charity, and let them figure out if they can reap any benefits from it....perhaps the land it is sitting on has some value....the house, itself, would cost far more than it is worth to make it liveable.
> 
> At any rate, start making plans to move....Soon.


That’s where I was going next. Contractors may have to by law report your house to authorities and have it condemned/ boarded up / unfit for living . If you contact a realtor they may say the same thing. You should at least have your house evaluated to see how much it’s worth. It might be best off being taken down and the land being sold for a new constructed house.


----------



## Knight

No response to this one I posted quite awhile back. 




Knight said:


> Way back probably months ago when you 1st. started to describe repairs needed I thought selling would be the best option.
> With all the recent repairs needed to your crumbling home If you do decide to sell the buyers will want a list of all that needs repaired or they probably have a professional home inspector write up all that is needed.
> I think if either or both of those happen there would be a good chance your home would be condemned as uninhabitable. You may even wind up having to pay for demolition.



I'm beginning to suspect Deb likes the attention her disaster of a home is generating for her.


----------



## debodun

You'll be happy to know that I've contacted a home inspection service. The ball is in their court, but being the weekend, I don't expect a response until next week.

http://www.ihi-ny.com/


----------



## debodun

Knight said:


> I'm beginning to suspect Deb likes the attention her disaster of a home is generating for her.



Well, you're participating in the discussion.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> You'll be happy to know that I've contacted a home inspection service. The ball is in their court, but being the weekend, I don't expect a response until next week.
> 
> http://www.ihi-ny.com/


Smart move Deb!


----------



## debodun

I researched inspection services online and hers has a high rating on several sites. She fairly local, also. I am just worn out trying to find individual project contractors. Maybe she can sort out what should be given priority.


----------



## Don M.

debodun said:


> You'll be happy to know that I've contacted a home inspection service. The ball is in their court, but being the weekend, I don't expect a response until next week. http://www.ihi-ny.com/



That's a good....and Very Necessary first step.  Now, take the next few days, and start thinking about what you need to do if the inspectors report is discouraging.  Moving, especially when a person is "attached" to their lifestyle, can be a bit traumatic.


----------



## Knight

debodun said:


> Well, you're participating in the discussion.


Quite right since it's entertaining how you dodge good suggestions and increase the description of the disaster that you live in.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> I researched inspection services online and hers has a high rating on several sites. She fairly local, also. I am just worn out trying to find individual project contractors. Maybe she can sort out what should be given priority.


Realtors and home inspectors have a LOT of contacts. Plus it will be good for you to get a professional opinion. She might offer some alternatives you hadn’t thought of before and help give you a fresh different perspective.

Plus you should find out how much damage your house has and how much it will cost to fix it. You could also find out approximately how much it’s currently worth. Without this information it’s impossible to know what to do first.


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> I researched inspection services online and hers has a high rating on several sites. She fairly local, also. I am just worn out trying to find individual project contractors. Maybe she can sort out what should be given priority.


Fingers are crossed for you, Deb!


----------



## MickaC

@debodun   I have no advice or suggestions for you other than......Please consider your health, well being, safety. Hope whatever decision you make concerning your home will be what's best for you. Take care.


----------



## Gemma

Being a senior citizen Deb and living in a home in such poor condition, I'm surprised no one has reported you to Adult Protective Services for self-neglect.  Some things they look for when investigating an individual are living alone, filth or bad odors, hazardous, unsafe, or unclean living conditions, major repairs that are needed and not done.


----------



## debodun

Maybe most neighbors don't concern themselves that way. Actually, from the outside, unless you looked very closely, you wouldn't be able to tell. The outside is fairly good except for patches of back porch roofing, some loose bricks and trim that needs a fresh coat of paint. I think the cat odor has abated somewhat now that I don't have any, but probably noticeable to someone that isn't used to pets. Also, the wear and tear on the inside is due to being a dry 55 F inside in the winter and humid 88 F in the summer. That makes the old wallpaper peel.


----------



## RadishRose

Don't forget to add in extermination costs and check for asbestos.
I can only guess how many mice are urinating in your walls. 
Good luck.


----------



## Keesha

What? 55 degree in the winter? 88 in the summer? Do you use a dehumidifier to help take the excess moisture out  ? Our dehumidifier takes about 3 gallons of water out of our home each day and you can feel the difference. I use the water for my plants outside with nutrients sometimes added.

You did what you could and can’t change the past. All you can do is learn from your mistakes and move forward. That’s all any of us can do.
We aren’t any better; just different.


----------



## Keesha

I was the exterminator at my parents house. A horrible disgusting job but someone had to do it or the volunteer help wouldn’t return.


----------



## debodun

I have a window air conditioner in my bedroom. The house is pretty cool in winter. I put a thermometer in the downstairs hallway once because it felt cold. The temp was 55 F. It is probably about 65 F upstairs since heat rises. The front door is pretty loose. I asked a guy from church to put weather stripping on it and he refused saying it was an easy thing to do and I could do it myself. Yeah - easy if you know what youre doing. When it's windy, the curtains ruffle even when the windows are closed. Very drafty.

I do see evidence of mice from time to time. I can't keep any food items out on the kitchen counter except canned. I've posted before about my method of capturing them. Bat droppings are in the attic.

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/my-no-fail-humane-mouse-catcher.42720/


----------



## Lizzie00

debodun said:


> Before I sell, I have to have someplace to go.


  I was where you are a year ago except my house was “only” 30 years old & not in need of major repairs. (Granted, a big difference....but similarities In our cirumstances also.) I 100% understand your indecision. 
  Within a week of learning that airbnb offered monthly rentals, i fiiiinally put my house on the market and it sold virtually overnight.  I lived in airbnb’s for a week shy of 3 months. It was an EXCELLENT experience.
  One of the big things i learned while being essentially homeless was to not be quiiiite so picky about the fine details of my next abode.  I ultimately landed in a 55+ single family ’hood about 45 minutes from the house i sold. 
  Granted there are HOA fees but heck....no free rides, right. And LAWN MAINTENANCE is included in the HOA fee. I will never ever get over it lol - it makes my heart singgggg every single Wednesday when they show up unsolicited (by me) to mow/edge/trim/etc etc - it’s an ongoing THRILL!
  My point is that it’s do-able. And my sense is that you KNOW that but you’re pretty much where I was before putting my house on the market last year.
  I’m thinkin about ya & waiting to hear your happy ending - you GO, girl!


----------



## C'est Moi

debodun said:


> I am probably used to it, but other people that have been inside usually comment on the odor. My mom, having had many cats over the years, doesn't help, either. Look what they did to the floor in one area. I can't even open the door there because the floor is so warped from the moisture:
> 
> View attachment 111331




Deb--besides the cat urine damage to the floor, I see water damage on the walls.   I think those "advising" you to get contractors are p*ssing in the wind.  It would cost a fortune to get that place in habitable condition.  That house should be condemned and you need a safe place to live.


----------



## Keesha

I’m not sure how you feel about living in a mobile community. Normally I wouldn’t invest in a mobile home as they don’t appreciate the same as regular houses BUT I think it’s a far wiser thing to do than rent. Renting might be a great idea at first while you explore  other options.

There are some nice  mobile senior communities as well as some nice mobile homes. A tiny home that has everything you need, is a reasonable size to clean and maintain and is bright and cheery.

Living in one of these communities, you’ll be with others going through the same stage of life as you, both males and females. These people can show you how to use bank machines and how to safely get a card. These people help each other and you are actually very good at socializing which I think you’d enjoy.

There’s usually snow removal, yard maintenance and garbage services included in these but not all are the same. I think you’d love living in a bright, clean, comfortable small home that you could realistically maintain.

Living in a community is actually a safe option since everyone watches out for everyone else. You’ll have friends. Anyway give it some consideration. I’m not sure what your mobile parks are like in N.Y. but there are some really classy, well maintained senior mobile communities in our area and rural New York doesn’t appear ‘that’ different from Ontario.

Note: if I lived closer I’d pick you up and drive you to one of these.


Senior living in New York State
https://www.senior-retirement-living.com/Search.php?State=NY

Best guide
https://www.bestguide-retirementcommunities.com/manufacturedhomescommunities.html

55plus senior mobile homes living

https://www.after55.com/ny

Senior living - below link looks good

https://infoforseniorliving.com/?page=Housing for Low Income Seniors&og1=4e819c25-8738-4d34-822d-d03715a6dcc6&cid=cid12944

Mobile home parks ( not necessarily senior living )

https://www.mobilehome.net/mobile-home-park-directory/new-york/all


----------



## Keesha

Lizzie00 said:


> I was where you are a year ago except my house was “only” 30 years old & not in need of major repairs. (Granted, a big difference....but similarities In our cirumstances also.) I 100% understand your indecision.
> Within a week of learning that airbnb offered monthly rentals, i fiiiinally put my house on the market and it sold virtually overnight.  I lived in airbnb’s for a week shy of 3 months. It was an EXCELLENT experience.
> One of the big things i learned while being essentially homeless was to not be quiiiite so picky about the fine details of my next abode.  I ultimately landed in a 55+ single family ’hood about 45 minutes from the house i sold.
> Granted there are HOA fees but heck....no free rides, right. And LAWN MAINTENANCE is included in the HOA fee. I will never ever get over it lol - it makes my heart singgggg every single Wednesday when they show up unsolicited (by me) to mow/edge/trim/etc etc - it’s an ongoing THRILL!
> My point is that it’s do-able. And my sense is that you KNOW that but you’re pretty much where I was before putting my house on the market last year.
> I’m thinkin about ya & waiting to hear your happy ending - you GO, girl!


I was hoping someone would chime in about senior community living. I think she’d actually really like it


----------



## debodun

Thanks for all the cool advice. I did look into senior apartments a few years ago. They are either more than I can afford, or I do not qualify as low income enough to reside there (i.e. either for the very wealthy or very poor). It's a real Catch-22.


----------



## debodun

A person I told I was getting an inspector to look at my house and advise me said this:  _A home inspector will only point out what needs to be repaired to bring it up to code or to make it habitable. It's a good idea, but can be expensive to find out a lot of what you already know_.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> A person I told I was getting an inspector to look at my house and advise me said this:  _A home inspector will only point out what needs to be repaired to bring it up to code or to make it habitable. It's a good idea, but can be expensive to find out a lot of what you already know_.


Yes but the thing is, if you want to sell your home, you can sell it ‘as is’ or ‘to code.’ Of course you’ll get more if it’s to code but an inspector should be able to give you a better idea what the most important things are that need doing.

An inspector should be able to give you contractor references as well as realtors. Even if you don’t sell it, it’s good to know what it’s worth even if it’s just an estimate. With some professionals working for you it should help you feel less overwhelmed. Let her know what your biggest concerns are.

If fact, I’d write a list of all the questions you have for her. Her professional opinion should help guide you to your next move, in whatever direction you decide to go

Note: For the record my suggestion to get an inspector and sell the house ‘as is’ wasn’t said to suggest being deceptive. Yes of course you’ll get less if you don’t fix all this stuff but at least you will have a better idea what needs doing and an estimated cost to fix it.

If you have a realtor when you sell, which you will, they will make sure everything is disclosed so you don’t get sued. That’s what you pay them for.


----------



## Aunt Bea

If your intention is to sell the property the defects disclosed in an inspection report may work against you.

_"Moreover, a seller who actively concealed a defect could be found liable to the buyer for damages caused by the defect. Active concealment means the seller knew about, but failed to disclose, a defect, and interfered with the buyer’s efforts to inspect the property. (See Laxer v. Edelman, 75 A.D. 3d 584 (2d Dept. 2010).)"_

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclop...ers-disclosures-required-under-state-law.html


----------



## StarSong

Aunt Bea said:


> If your intention is to sell the property the defects disclosed in an inspection report may work against you.
> 
> _"Moreover, a seller who actively concealed a defect could be found liable to the buyer for damages caused by the defect. Active concealment means the seller knew about, but failed to disclose, a defect, and interfered with the buyer’s efforts to inspect the property. (See Laxer v. Edelman, 75 A.D. 3d 584 (2d Dept. 2010).)"_
> 
> https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclop...ers-disclosures-required-under-state-law.html


Unless intending to raze the house, virtually any buyer would/should get a top-to-bottom inspection especially given the obvious problems.  Like NY, California has an exhaustive list of known defects that sellers must disclose.


----------



## debodun

Keesha said:


> An inspector should be able to give you contractor references as well as realtors.



I just spoke with the inspector I left a message for. She wanted to know where I got the idea that she would recommend contractors. She can only discover and advise about potential problems. It is up to the buyer or homeowner to make their own arrangements about repairs. There is a liability and conflict of interest involved.

Maybe the rules are different in different locales.

I though about asking my homeowner's insurance company's agent for contractors, but the last three times I did, she said her boyfriend could help me and she had given him my name and phone number. I never did hear from him, but I find it difficult to believe one person can too ALL the things I need done. I don't even know if he's qualified.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> I just spoke with the inspector I left a message for. She wanted to know where I got the idea that she would recommend contractors. She can only discover and advise about potential problems. It is up to the buyer or homeowner to make their own arrangements about repairs.
> 
> Maybe the rules are different in different locales.


Probably different since you’re in the United States. Up here if you hire a house inspector or  realtor and sometimes contractors, they all work togrher so support and refer each other. 

Will she at least prioritize what things need fixing for you? I hope so. There’s a lot she should be able to help you with.


----------



## Knight

debodun said:


> I just spoke with the inspector I left a message for. She wanted to know where I got the idea that she would recommend contractors. She can only discover and advise about potential problems. It is up to the buyer or homeowner to make their own arrangements about repairs.
> 
> Maybe the rules are different in different locales.


Did you ask if there is a legal requirement where you live to disclose known defects to prospective buyers? I think the only defect you haven't written about is the heating system. Roof, walls, rodents, cat urine, windows, brick, electrical, interior ceiling collapsing, cellar water filtering in, is quite a lot to disclose. 

On the plus side you did title this thread correctly.


----------



## StarSong

Knight said:


> *Did you ask if there is a legal requirement where you live to disclose known defects to prospective buyers?* I think the only defect you haven't written about is the heating system. Roof, walls, rodents, cat urine, windows, brick, electrical, interior ceiling collapsing, cellar water filtering in, is quite a lot to disclose.
> 
> On the plus side you did title this thread correctly.


Aunt Bea posted it above in her post #188.  Both live in New York State.


----------



## Aneeda72

debodun said:


> I just spoke with the inspector I left a message for. She wanted to know where I got the idea that she would recommend contractors. She can only discover and advise about potential problems. It is up to the buyer or homeowner to make their own arrangements about repairs. There is a liability and conflict of interest involved.
> 
> Maybe the rules are different in different locales.
> 
> I though about asking my homeowner's insurance company's agent for contractors, but the last three times I did, she said her boyfriend could help me and she had given him my name and phone number. I never did hear from him, but I find it difficult to believe one person can too ALL the things I need done. I don't even know if he's qualified.


You need a general contractor.  You can google to find a list of them or go to a service like Home Advisor.  Home advisor will provide a list of general contractors, you can google each one you like, pick the one you want; and then have them come out and look at your house.

A general contractor can direct repairs for everything that needs repairing.

As this thread goes on, it seems that you are, for whatever, reason @debodun inadequate to the task of repairing your house, or you just want the attention the thread gives you.  I don’t mind if you want attention, I’m fine with giving it to you.

Finding contractors, choosing paint, and getting repairs are just not that hard.  But I found my husband unable to do this as well and I, once again, had to take over.  This is an issue for people who just want to get stuff done but not do the research to insure they deal with reliable knowledge people.

You need to research for a good reliable general contractor in your area; and a construction attorney to guide you through the paperwork and process so you don’t get taken advantage of again.  IMO, you may have tried to do things on the cheap and that’s why you have had substandard workers.  You get what you pay for.

However, the house is not safe.  IMO sell it, move, and get on with your life.


----------



## RadishRose

So far, I'm looking at-

Asbestos inspection/removal
mold /dry rot/ radon
vermin extermination/termites

roofing 
gutters/leaders

new electrical
new plumbing
check furnace

re mortar loose brickwork
cellar
replace 30 windows thermal  pane/ screens
porch railings

rip out/replace old carpeting
rip out/replace stained, warped wood flooring.

Strip off stained wallpaper, replace or paint walls and ceilings.

repaint or replace kitchen cabinets
scrub or replace stove

Unknown problems with bathrooms?

Carting costs


----------



## debodun

Keesha said:


> Will she at least prioritize what things need fixing for you? I hope so. There’s a lot she should be able to help you with.



We didn't go into that. When she couldn't give me the help I wanted, that was the end of the conversation.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> We didn't go into that. When she couldn't give me the help I wanted, that was the end of the conversation.


So you aren’t going to hire her to give you an estimate on what your house is worth and what needs doing to make it sellable?


----------



## debodun

Not if she can't go all the way.


----------



## Keesha

Okay!


----------



## StarSong

So it's Monday.  A work day.  Businesses are open and contractors are answering their phones.  How have you moved the ball forward today, @debodun?


----------



## debodun

StarSong said:


> contractors are answering their phones?


If only it were so.


----------



## StarSong

debodun said:


> If only it were so.


Then call others.  Surely there is a contractor within 25 miles of you who is answering his/her phone.


----------



## debodun

A roofer that came 3 weeks ago and said he's call me back with a quote in a day or two, did call this morning - at 8:30am. He said that he couldn't find 3-tab shingles which is BS because I looked on Lowe's website and they are available there. I informed him of that and he replied that they wouldn't match what's on the main part of the house. He wants to use architectural shingles. He is supposed to phone later today witha quote on that job.

An exterior painter returned my call on Friday afternoon and said he would call me at 9:30 am this morning to set a time to look at what needs doing. It is now 1:30 pm and no call. I am not going to beg contractors to give estimates. It makes me seem desperate or in a hurry and then the price goes up.

I have used Home Advisor.  Never again! That's where I got the guy that painted the front porch and the paint peeled off after a few months - and he had a 4-star rating.


----------



## StarSong

So good progress on the roof.  That's happy news, right?


----------



## debodun

When it's over, I'll be happy.


----------



## StarSong

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.


----------



## debodun

Uphill all the way.  

I probably have priorities backwards. Painting the trim is cosmetic and not essential, but is praying on my mind. The dampness in the cellar is less of a concern to me (because it is something I don't see), but probably should be taken care of.  The inspector did mention something about what would be more helpful to me is a "property manager" rather than an inspector. I though thay were for more of a commercial property. What think?


----------



## RadishRose

The kitchen ceiling should be fixed right away, imo


----------



## debodun

See, to me that is just a cosmetic repair, but I do appreciate your concern.  

I'd be willing to wager that window replacement and cellar dampness would be something a property advisor would tell me were higher priorities (more costly too).


----------



## debodun

I just got a PM on FB from a woman that saw a post I made about looking for handymen. She said her sister's friend's son does odd jobs. I asked if he was licensed and insured. Haven't heard back yet.


----------



## Knight

StarSong said:


> Aunt Bea posted it above in her post #188.  Both live in New York State.


Thanks I missed her post.


----------



## Knight

debodun said:


> See, to me that is just a cosmetic repair, but I do appreciate your concern.
> 
> I'd be willing to wager that window replacement and cellar dampness would be something a property advisor would tell me were higher priorities (more costly too).



Don't go down to your cellar, what you don't see isn't there. Windows cover with plastic, problem solved. Cat urine, the carpets are already ruined use bleach that should equalize the color & reduce or eliminate any smell. Ceiling over the stove no big deal just change the plastic occasionally, maybe getting some decorative plastic. Mice droppings & mice. The droppings give you something to do to clean up, & trapping the mice a sport activity to see which is more successful. Upgrade the electrical, not needed because using more than one appliance at a time is wasting electricity. Brick work that spray foam insulation could fill the cracks & you could paint with an exterior brick color paint. 

You might be able to get that handy man to make the cosmetic repairs really cheap, material cost probably less that $100.00. Meanwhile you can entertain yourself with that mouse trapping.

For those not understanding sarcasm read the above again. 

Patching & ignoring items that are a health hazard may be all Deb can afford, but with maybe 20+ years to live in that disaster is her choice.


----------



## Aneeda72

debodun said:


> A roofer that came 3 weeks ago and said he's call me back with a quote in a day or two, did call this morning - at 8:30am. He said that he couldn't find 3-tab shingles which is BS because I looked on Lowe's website and they are available there. I informed him of that and he replied that they wouldn't match what's on the main part of the house. He wants to use architectural shingles. He is supposed to phone later today witha quote on that job.
> 
> An exterior painter returned my call on Friday afternoon and said he would call me at 9:30 am this morning to set a time to look at what needs doing. It is now 1:30 pm and no call. I am not going to beg contractors to give estimates. It makes me seem desperate or in a hurry and then the price goes up.
> 
> I have used Home Advisor.  Never again! That's where I got the guy that painted the front porch and the paint peeled off after a few months - and he had a 4-star rating.


Which is why you conduct your own investigation of whoever Home Advisor suggests.  After all, they give you several choices.  Btw, anyone seeing the condition of your house would realize you were in no hurry for the repairs, IMO.


----------



## Knight

Dealing with the unknown like Deb's age and her employment so it's tough to try to understand why letting a home she inherited get so deteriorated. I do feel sorry for her because she is living in a home that is a health hazard and desperately in need of thousands of dollars in repair. The list of needed repairs grew in this thread the more people offered opinions on how to get out from under the situation she is in. 

IMO there is a real possibility that her home would be condemned if it was inspected for sale. Then what does she do? Could it be that her not being aggressive in getting an evaluation is due to fear that moving with no place to go keeps her from doing what would resolve her situation? 

Only Deb knows & I wish her the best in whatever happens from now forward.


----------



## Aunt Marg

Knight said:


> Dealing with the unknown like Deb's age and her employment so it's tough to try to understand why letting a home she inherited get so deteriorated. I do feel sorry for her because she is living in a home that is a health hazard and desperately in need of thousands of dollars in repair. The list of needed repairs grew in this thread the more people offered opinions on how to get out from under the situation she is in.
> 
> *IMO there is a real possibility that her home would be condemned if it was inspected for sale*. Then what does she do? Could it be that her not being aggressive in getting an evaluation is due to fear that moving with no place to go keeps her from doing what would resolve her situation?
> 
> Only Deb knows & I wish her the best in whatever happens from now forward.


On what grounds? A deteriorated kitchen ceiling? Windows that require repointing? Stained carpeting and flooring? A basement with damp areas?

So what you're saying is, 100% of all homes bought and sold in the USofA, are in 100% perfect condition?


----------



## StarSong

About 18 months ago we were considering selling our house and consulted a local realtor to learn its value and what work, if any, needed to be done to put it into sale condition. 

He said the seller's gold-standard priority list has water and electricity at the top. Fix leaks, roof, gutters, mold, plumbing and electrical problems. (For us that meant taking care of a problem with our pool.  Which we did by hiring professionals, and didn't go with the lowest bidder.) 

He also said that homes need to be in good repair, but repainting, updating kitchen cabinets or appliances, new carpets and flooring, bathroom remodels, etc., are waaaay down the list and often don't sell a house or give a full return on their investment.

Of course, there's always the option of selling at a discounted price in as-is condition to parties interested in repairing or razing the house.


----------



## Pepper

I think the last option is a good option.  I know at this stage I couldn't afford to get my coop in up-to-date state, if the intention were only to sell.


----------



## debodun

I am 68, female and single. I have to get by on around $3000 a month between my pension and SSI plus what money I've saved. I don't want to have to start diving deeply into my nest egg.


----------



## Aneeda72

Yes cosmetic updates don’t matter because people will repaint etc, but other things should be fixed.  unfortunately, we’ve had to fix things in every house we moved in even though we get the properties inspected.  As the inspections don’t expose everything.

Its seems it’s common for a lot of people to not keep their houses in good shape.  I’ve never understood this because if you fix things as they break then you don‘t ever have a huge problem and bill to contend with.


----------



## Aneeda72

debodun said:


> I am 68, female and single. I have to get by on around $3000 a month between my pension and SSI plus what money I've saved. I don't want to have to start diving deeply into my nest egg.


Is the house paid for?  I may have missed that.  If it is, and you’ve lived it it for decades, you’ve got your money’s worth and, IMO, you should move.  At 68 it’s had to keep a house as big as yours anyway.  At least it would be for me.  I have trouble keeping up my 1400 square foot one level house.  Not to mention all the yard work we are having to do.  Sigh.


----------



## Knight

Aunt Marg said:


> On what grounds? A deteriorated kitchen ceiling? Windows that require repointing? Stained carpeting and flooring? A basement with damp areas?
> 
> So what you're saying is, 100% of all homes bought and sold in the USofA, are in 100% perfect condition?


The unseen but able to discover mouse droppings, the 20 amp service, the mold due to rain & water filtration into the walls & basement, the collapsing window casements that repointing won't fix only hide the deterioration. Toss in the plumbing I think was the reason for the ceiling to collapse, floor replacement for cat urine & stains .

And no older homes are not in 100% perfect condition that is why some are condemned for human habitation. The condition or repairs needed detract from the sale price, but I'm sure you know that.  Given the quantity & kind of repair needed what would you offer to buy the house for? Would you buy it to renovate ?


----------



## debodun

Aneeda72 said:


> Is the house paid for?  I may have missed that.  If it is, and you’ve lived it it for decades, you’ve got your money’s worth and, IMO, you should move.  At 68 it’s had to keep a house as big as yours anyway.  At least it would be for me.  I have trouble keeping up my 1400 square foot one level house.  Not to mention all the yard work we are having to do.



Yes, it's been paid for for decades. My parents bought it in 1975. My father passed in 1983 and my mother didn't keep up on the maintenance for the 23 years after that she outlived him. I would often mention to her that this or that should be taken care of, but she never wanted people she didn't know working around her and disturbing her peace of mind. One time we desperately need plumbing and I went ahead and got a team to fix the clogs and leaks. When they arraived, mon barricaded herself in her bedroom until it was all over and she didn't speak to me for a week afterwards. Now I am trying to play catch-up. I've already invested thousands in the house and it doesn't look any better and problems are escalating.

One realtor that looked at it when I was considering selling said "The bones are good, but it would have to be gutted and re-done." Another indicated that I would have to put a minimum of $200K in repairs or she wouldn't even accept it for the market. I just couldn't see paying that much to do something that another owner would just rip out an put in what they wanted.


----------



## StarSong

Why not get a realtor to give an estimate of what it would sell for in as-is condition?  At least it will give you a starting point.


----------



## debodun

I sent an email to a realtor that sold my grandmother's house. Awaiting a reply.


----------



## Keesha

yep!


----------



## Aneeda72

Oh,


debodun said:


> I sent an email to a realtor that sold my grandmother's house. Awaiting a reply.


 oh, good.  A flipper will take it down to the studs and then rebuild the whole thing.  You can get a much better place and save your money.


----------



## Aunt Marg

debodun said:


> Yes, it's been paid for for decades. My parents bought it in 1975. My father passed in 1983 and my mother didn't keep up on the maintenance for the 23 years after that she outlived him. I would often mention to her that this or that should be taken care of, but she never wanted people she didn't know working around her and disturbing her peace of mind. One time we desperately need plumbing and I went ahead and got a team to fix the clogs and leaks. When they arraived, mon barricaded herself in her bedroom until it was all over and she didn't speak to me for a week afterwards. Now I am trying to play catch-up. I've already invested thousands in the house and it doesn't look any better and problems are escalating.
> *
> One realtor that looked at it when I was considering selling said "The bones are good, but it would have to be gutted and re-done." Another indicated that I would have to put a minimum of $200K in repairs or she wouldn't even accept it for the market.* I just couldn't see paying that much to do something that another owner would just rip out an put in what they wanted.


Translation... I am a real estate agent that's looking to profit from the blood, sweat & tears of others, so the sooner I can convince this seller that their home is worthless, the sooner I can liquidate it for a song and pad my pockets with commission.

There is NO way your home needs $200K in repairs.


----------



## StarSong

Aunt Marg said:


> Translation... I am a real estate agent that's looking to profit from the blood, sweat & tears of others, so the sooner I can convince this seller that their home is worthless, the sooner I can liquidate it for a song and pad my pockets with commission.
> 
> *There is NO way your home needs $200K in repairs.*


How could you possibly know this?


----------



## Aunt Marg

StarSong said:


> How could you possibly know this?


I don't, but I'm not buying into the idea that Deb's home requires $200K in repairs.


----------



## debodun

I only know what the estate agent said. Whether it's true or not is anyone's guess. But I wouldn't be aghast that it is because of the reasons Marg mentioned.


----------



## Pepper

Everything is outrageously expensive these days, even a paint job.


----------



## debodun

You will not get an argument from me on that point.


----------



## debodun

I see the ads on TV all the time about companies that will "pay cash for your house in any condition". By the time they finish finding fault, you'd end up having to pay them to take it.


----------



## debodun

I did hear back from the real estate agent that sold my grandma's house:

_I’m not so sure that getting a certified home inspector first is a bad idea. True, they cannot recommend contractors because of the conflict but they can inspect the entire house and prioritize the repairs that are essential and effect life-safety!  I have a few inspectors that I can give you to consider if you like.

Looking at your list, there are several contractors needed.  The good ones don’t “try” to do everything on a list but concentrate on their speciality...i.e., roofer, plumber, painter, mason, etc....  I would be suspicious of a contractor who tells you they could do it all!

I think a home inspector is a wise first step and will provide you with a whole house inspection that would be a good long-term planning tool for you.  Those fees typically run $400./$600. 

Hope this is helpful! _


----------



## Keesha

Yep. lol


----------



## squatting dog

RadishRose said:


> The kitchen ceiling should be fixed right away, imo


RR, I think the cause for the ceiling collapse should be found first.


Aunt Marg said:


> Translation... I am a real estate agent that's looking to profit from the blood, sweat & tears of others, so the sooner I can convince this seller that their home is worthless, the sooner I can liquidate it for a song and pad my pockets with commission.
> 
> There is NO way your home needs $200K in repairs.



The nationwide average build price is between $100 and $155 per sq. ft.        Do the math.  Marg.

And as if that's not bad enough, the house sits in an area that has higher values than surrounding counties and therefore you are apt to find the average price per sq ft to be more in the $179 range.
Forget the rodent droppings's. (that's the least of the problems)   Get down to the basics...
Total upgrade of electrical wiring.
Total repair of all plumbing.
Total repair of foundation (including the outside drainage problem)
Total repair of roof. If it's been leaking, I'm betting there is some sheathing damage underneath. 
Total repair of brickwork and window casings. Again, there is going to be damage underneath to the sheathing.
Now, after all that, then you can start re-doing all the drywall in the house. (remember it'll be torn out for the wiring.
Of course, there is the payment of the original demolition so these repairs can be made
My advice is run away. If someone wants to gut it and start over, more power to them. For that feeling Deb, I'm so sorry, but there it is. 
There is no way you can slap a coat of paint and some motor goop and sell it.


----------



## debodun

The recent ceiling problem wasn't due to water leakage. All the plaster I swept up was dry and crumbly and no drips down in the kitchen (the upstairs bathroom is directly over the kitchen). It was fairly new, too, having it re-plastered within the last 15 years when a plumber knocked part of it out to get to a clog problem. The recent situation was in the newer part. Now if you're going to ask why the plumber didn't re-plaster the ceiling, I did ask. His response was, "I'm a plumber, not a drywaller."


----------



## Aneeda72

debodun said:


> I did hear back from the real estate agent that sold my grandma's house:
> 
> _I’m not so sure that getting a certified home inspector first is a bad idea. True, they cannot recommend contractors because of the conflict but they can inspect the entire house and prioritize the repairs that are essential and effect life-safety!  I have a few inspectors that I can give you to consider if you like.
> 
> Looking at your list, there are several contractors needed.  The good ones don’t “try” to do everything on a list but concentrate on their speciality...i.e., roofer, plumber, painter, mason, etc....  I would be suspicious of a contractor who tells you they could do it all!
> 
> I think a home inspector is a wise first step and will provide you with a whole house inspection that would be a good long-term planning tool for you.  Those fees typically run $400./$600.
> 
> Hope this is helpful! _


This is the right price for an inspection, I paid it on each house we considered buying


----------



## Aneeda72

debodun said:


> The recent ceiling problem wasn't due to water leakage. All the plaster I swept up was dry and crumbly and no drips down in the kitchen (the upstairs bathroom is directly over the kitchen). It was fairly new, too, having it re-plastered within the last 15 years when a plumber knocked part of it out to get to a clog problem. The recent situation was in the newer part. Now if you're going to ask why the plumber didn't re-plaster the ceiling, I did ask. His response was, "I'm a plumber, not a drywaller."


We had to have a drain put in the laundry room and drainage pipes enlarged.  He had to remove the drywall, of course.  Now we have to pay someone to come fix it.  This is typical as well.  Plumbers tear it out, a drywall guy has to put it back.  It’s never ending.


----------



## Knight

Aneeda72 said:


> Oh,
> 
> oh, good.  A flipper will take it down to the studs and then rebuild the whole thing.  You can get a much better place and save your money.


My son did that in a small town south of Pittsburgh Pa. There and other places. He bought a disaster for $4,000.00 sold it for $118,000.00. Invested that in other places to the point of retiring at age 50 now traveling with his wife until they see all they want to see.


----------



## Knight

Top companies for Electricians in New York State
Encore Electric, Inc.
$76.15
per hour

$57.16
per hour
arab contractors

$47.31
per hour

Stones River Electric
$46.18
per hour

An example of hourly cost to upgrade the wiring. After gutting the entire home not only the wiring but the breaker box & circuit breaker cost need to be included. Why not wire the house for internet while the walls are opened up? 

Depending on the age & type of the heating system that might be upgraded along with the plumbing.
How much does a Licensed Plumber make in Albany, NY? The average Licensed Plumber salary in Albany, NY is $58,300 as of May 28, 2020. The low end of $58,300 based on 2080 labor hours is $28.02 per hour. Then there are the material costs to include. 

That only scratches the surface of the repair cost that could be incured. 

Given the reaction to how Deb's mother reacted to people I think I'm beginning to understand why some of her posts show mistrust of her neighbors. That and the reluctence to move from where she is comfortable.

I've posted about Johnstown Pa. before only because my son & his wife plan to live there eventually when their travel is completed. If they chose a place we'll pay for it and then when they are setteled in they will pay us whatever the mortgage plus taxes would have been. I don't expect to recover the cost but their pride in paying back stays intact. So many choices to fit any budget. 
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Johnstown_PA/price-na-70000


----------



## RadishRose

While the walls are opened up, I'd install central A/C and central vacuum.

Since the place is so big, I'd go with two or 3 zone heating.

Oh yes, we forgot- the house needs to be *insulated*!! How much will that be?
With thermal pane glass, weather stripping and multi zone heating, I bet the heating costs will be 50% of what it is now.


----------



## Knight

RadishRose said:


> While the walls are opened up, I'd install central A/C and central vacuum.
> 
> Since the place is so big, I'd go with two or 3 zone heating.
> 
> Oh yes, we forgot- the house needs to be *insulated*!! How much will that be?
> With thermal pane glass, weather stripping and multi zone heating, I bet the heating costs will be 50% of what it is now.


Exactly why not do as much as possible to live comfortably. Might even be able to look into a 2nd mortgage if that is possible ant the loan percent is low


----------



## Aunt Marg

squatting dog said:


> RR, I think the cause for the ceiling collapse should be found first.
> 
> 
> *The nationwide average build price is between $100 and $155 per sq. ft.        Do the math.  Marg.*
> 
> And as if that's not bad enough, the house sits in an area that has higher values than surrounding counties and therefore you are apt to find the average price per sq ft to be more in the $179 range.
> Forget the rodent droppings's. (that's the least of the problems)   Get down to the basics...
> Total upgrade of electrical wiring.
> Total repair of all plumbing.
> Total repair of foundation (including the outside drainage problem)
> Total repair of roof. If it's been leaking, I'm betting there is some sheathing damage underneath.
> Total repair of brickwork and window casings. Again, there is going to be damage underneath to the sheathing.
> Now, after all that, then you can start re-doing all the drywall in the house. (remember it'll be torn out for the wiring.
> Of course, there is the payment of the original demolition so these repairs can be made
> My advice is run away. If someone wants to gut it and start over, more power to them. For that feeling Deb, I'm so sorry, but there it is.
> There is no way you can slap a coat of paint and some motor goop and sell it.


We average $130 - $230 per sq. ft here in Canada, but that's where you have lost me. I wasn't aware that Deb, was looking to rebuild her home, just tackle what repairs need doing, and that certainly doesn't equate to spending $100 - $155 per foot to have done.


----------



## squatting dog

Aunt Marg said:


> We average $130 - $230 per sq. ft here in Canada, but that's where you have lost me. I wasn't aware that Deb, was looking to rebuild her home, just tackle what repairs need doing, and that certainly doesn't equate to spending $100 - $155 per foot to have done.


Just go through the entire post, (and a few others), and you'll see that in order to fix all the wrongs Deb has shown, you basically have to gut the home and start again. Anyone who has had any carpenter experience knows that what's on the surface is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to repair time. Remember, Deb cannot do these things herself, so, yes, in order to properly repair this home for either for her own safety and comfort or to get top dollar on a re-sell, she will have to deal with licence'd contractors which equates to multiple dollars being spent.
I stand by the fact that once you start into repairs, it will grow into one huge money pit.


----------



## Pepper

I'm very impressed, @squatting dog with the knowledge you display on this subject.


----------



## Aneeda72

Knight said:


> My son did that in a small town south of Pittsburgh Pa. There and other places. He bought a disaster for $4,000.00 sold it for $118,000.00. Invested that in other places to the point of retiring at age 50 now traveling with his wife until they see all they want to see.


He’s not actually traveling now, is he?


----------



## Aneeda72

Knight said:


> Top companies for Electricians in New York State
> Encore Electric, Inc.
> $76.15
> per hour
> 
> $57.16
> per hour
> arab contractors
> 
> $47.31
> per hour
> 
> Stones River Electric
> $46.18
> per hour
> 
> An example of hourly cost to upgrade the wiring. After gutting the entire home not only the wiring but the breaker box & circuit breaker cost need to be included. Why not wire the house for internet while the walls are opened up?
> 
> Depending on the age & type of the heating system that might be upgraded along with the plumbing.
> How much does a Licensed Plumber make in Albany, NY? The average Licensed Plumber salary in Albany, NY is $58,300 as of May 28, 2020. The low end of $58,300 based on 2080 labor hours is $28.02 per hour. Then there are the material costs to include.
> 
> That only scratches the surface of the repair cost that could be incured.
> 
> Given the reaction to how Deb's mother reacted to people I think I'm beginning to understand why some of her posts show mistrust of her neighbors. That and the reluctence to move from where she is comfortable.
> 
> I've posted about Johnstown Pa. before only because my son & his wife plan to live there eventually when their travel is completed. If they chose a place we'll pay for it and then when they are setteled in they will pay us whatever the mortgage plus taxes would have been. I don't expect to recover the cost but their pride in paying back stays intact. So many choices to fit any budget.
> https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Johnstown_PA/price-na-70000


It cost 5000 to wire a four level, two story house with basement, including 4 bedrooms living room, family room etc., 2200 square feet for cable tv.  This was three years ago.  Because it was bi-level Comcast wouldn’t wire it.

In our current house, we didn’t rewire the electrical, but changed all the electrical outlets, added a few outlets.  We also replaced the inside electrical box and updated the outside electrical box and it cost 5000.  As a one level house, Comcast wired it for cable at no charge.


----------



## Knight

Aneeda72 said:


> He’s not actually traveling now, is he?


Yes they are on the Alcan highway headed for Alaska. BTW each home they renovated they got permits for & inspection certificates for each phase of renovation. Assuring all repairs were up to code. They are living the American dream now.


----------



## Knight

squatting dog said:


> Just go through the entire post, (and a few others), and you'll see that in order to fix all the wrongs Deb has shown, you basically have to gut the home and start again. Anyone who has had any carpenter experience knows that what's on the surface is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to repair time. Remember, Deb cannot do these things herself, so, yes, in order to properly repair this home for either for her own safety and comfort or to get top dollar on a re-sell, she will have to deal with licence'd contractors which equates to multiple dollars being spent.
> I stand by the fact that once you start into repairs, it will grow into one huge money pit.


Once gutted exposing the support walls who knows what might be found? I feel sorry for Deb because the list of exposed is long what lies unseen could easily add to the cost.


----------



## debodun

The proverbial can of worms.


----------



## StarSong

debodun said:


> The proverbial can of worms.


Indeed.


----------



## debodun

Another can of worms is:

1) I hate the expense and trouble of indoor and outdoor maintenance
2) I am not sure I'd be happy living in an apartment situation


----------



## gennie

Architecturally, the house is beautiful.  It looks like it was built during a time when homes were meant to last.

If it has good bones, a young, energetic couple with some basic knowledge of  construction and a willingness to work hard along with some $$ could turn it into a jewel.


----------



## debodun

Just like the old house in the movie "It's a Wonderful Life". Yes, it would take some money, know-how and elbow grease, but it could be a showplace or even make a nice B&B with 4 bedroom upstairs and a room downstairs that could be a bedroom for the owners. I can see a chandelier hanging in the middle parlor! The spacious backyard could be converted into a parking lot, too. At various times during the day the United Church carillion bells play a hymn.


----------



## Don M.

One of our Granddaughters and her husband bought a 100+ year old house last year.  It is in fairly good shape...quite liveable...but still needs lots of work to bring it up to modern standards.  They have redone the kitchen, main bathroom and a couple of the bedrooms already, and they are hoping to have it all done in 5 years, with a budget of no more than $50k.  
They are young, and the husband is quite a handyman, plus he has lots of friends in the construction business, so their labor costs will be minimal.  If they weren't able to do a lot themselves, and didn't have these friends, it would probably cost them $150K to rebuild this old house.  

Based upon what Deb has said and posted, $200k would probably be on the low end of the cost of having her old place brought up to current standards by hired contractors.   And then, it probably wouldn't sell for more than what it cost to rebuild it.


----------



## squatting dog

Pepper said:


> I'm very impressed, @squatting dog with the knowledge you display on this subject.


Thank you. That knowledge came from the fact my dad was a contractor and I was forced to learn this stuff at an early age.   Came in handy later in life when I was able to update some of our previous houses and finally, build my own house from ground up.


----------



## debodun

Another intrigue - will this ever end? I needed a new window shade in the middle upstairs bedroom. Of course it wasn't the same width as the old, torn one, so I had to get up and relocate the shade brackets. When I did, I was horrified to find the paint on the inside casements so cracked and dry. As I was manipulating the brackets, paint was flaking off and falling on me. I'll probably get lead poisoning now!


----------



## squatting dog

Deb... Deb...


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## Keesha

debodun said:


> Another can of worms is:
> 
> 1) I hate the expense and trouble of indoor and outdoor maintenance
> 2) I am not sure I'd be happy living in an apartment situation


You wouldn’t


----------



## Aunt Bea

I wouldn't worry too much about major renovations or repairs.

Old people and old houses have a way of adapting to each other for as long as one continues to need the other.

_"I'm gonna have to fix that one of these days."_ - Pa Kettle


----------



## hollydolly

Aunt Bea said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about major renovations or repairs.
> 
> Old people and old houses have a way of adapting to each other for as long as one continues to need the other.
> 
> _"I'm gonna have to fix that one of these days."_ - Pa Kettle


 trouble is, how many winters is Deb going to manage to get through with all those broken windows allowing the cold and rain through


----------



## Knight

Aunt Bea said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about major renovations or repairs.
> 
> Old people and old houses have a way of adapting to each other for as long as one continues to need the other.
> 
> _"I'm gonna have to fix that one of these days."_ - Pa Kettle


Deb is 68 collecting for some kind of issue with maybe with at least 20 more years to "stay" in the house. I used "stay" only because living in it is not something I would associate with the kind of quality of life one should expect from a home.


----------



## StarSong

Aunt Bea said:


> Old people and old houses have a way of adapting to each other for as long as one continues to need the other.


Also true of young people and old cars.


----------



## debodun

Haven't heard ANYTHING in a week from any contractors I've contacted. The ones that did return my calls said they would come at such a time or call me back when they had a chance. Nobody has called to appeared. I am finished putting my life on hold in the hope someone might respond to my inquiry. A few that did refused to take the job because they wouldn't comply with my rules:

1) you can have snacks and non-alcoholic beverages while you work, but must clean up any food or beverage containers. (the guy that painted my porch left so many snack bags and soda cans my yard it looked like a tornado hit a convenience store - on the bright side, I took the cans back for the deposit, but I feel I shouldn't have to clean up after them).
2) bring an electric generator if you need electricity for your work (this is because I do not have any outlets on the exterior of the house and I am not leaving my doors open while people are working on my house)
3) you can find bathroom facilities at the convenience store up the street or the port-a-potty at the Blockhouse up the street. No pissing in the shrubs! (I've had guys do this!)
4) no loud radios! (many refused to comply with this saying they can't work without a radio blasting. I think that's BS).


----------



## JaniceM

hollydolly said:


> trouble is, how many winters is Deb going to manage to get through with all those broken windows allowing the cold and rain through


True-  NY winters can get very extreme!!


----------



## JaniceM

debodun said:


> Haven't heard ANYTHING in a week from any contractors I've contacted. The ones that did return my calls said they would come at such a time or call me back when they had a chance. Nobody has called to appeared. I am finished putting my life on hold in the hope someone might respond to my inquiry. A few that did refused to take the job because they wouldn't comply with my rules:
> 
> 1) you can have snacks and non-alcoholic beverages while you work, but must clean up any food or beverage containers. (the guy that painted my porch left so many snack bags and soda cans my yard it looked like a tornado hit a convenience store - on the bright side, I took the cans back for the deposit, but I feel I shouldn't have to clean up after them).
> 2) bring an electric generator if you need electricity for your work (this is because I do not have any outlets on the exterior of the house and I am not leaving my doors open while people are working on my house)
> 3) you can find bathroom facilities at the convenience store up the street or the port-a-potty at the Blockhouse up the street. No pissing in the shrubs! (I've had guys do this!)
> 4) no loud radios! (many refused to comply with this saying they can't work without a radio blasting. I think that's BS).


I think your rules are reasonable.


----------



## hollydolly

JaniceM said:


> I think your rules are reasonable.


 I don't agree with the toilet one.. I would always allow them to use my toilet., or I'd hire a portaloo at my expense for them


----------



## JaniceM

hollydolly said:


> I don't agree with the toilet one.. I would always allow them to use my toilet., or I'd hire a portaloo at my expense for them


Well, I guess it'd depend on how far the convenience store was.   I thought of mentioning that.


----------



## Keesha

Well I can understand why nobody is calling you back.


----------



## debodun

JaniceM said:


> Well, I guess it'd depend on how far the convenience store was.   I thought of mentioning that.



One can be seen from my front porch.


----------



## debodun

Keesha said:


> Well I can understand why nobody is calling you back.



Care to explain your comment?


----------



## hollydolly

debodun said:


> One can be seen from my front porch.


 how close is it in actuality?


----------



## debodun

half a block


----------



## JaniceM

debodun said:


> half a block


That's certainly reasonable.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> Care to explain your comment?


I can  but I don’t wish to offend you.
For one I have some very similar issues as you with people coming over but perhaps for different reasons. Having working contractors coming in and out of our house would make me very uncomfortable but in a situation like this, I would make allowances

Expecting contractors to bring a generator so they don’t use your electricity is ridiculous. There are these things called power chords.

You’re worried about noise?  No radios? That’s a bit unrealistic!
Having said that, do you know how loud generators are?

As far as garbage is concerned;
Supply a garbage can.

Yes you have a right to have expectations but your expectations say more about the type of person they are going to be dealing with then anything else. Nobody wants to deal with someone who has such strict expectations. The way you’ve written out the rules is already treating these workers like children needing to be micro managed /supervised by you. A woman.

And the electricity issue is an expense thing. Like I said before, you are so much like my parents that I can usually tell where the motivation comes from.

These guys could use up a few dollars worth of electricity and how will you calculate that otherwise ?

The music issue? Usually that could be solved with a headset of earplugs BUT when dealing with dangerous equipment this isn’t a good idea.
Will you hover around them making sure it’s at a reasonable level?

Do you think you’re fun to work with or work for?


----------



## Aneeda72

Knight said:


> Yes they are on the Alcan highway headed for Alaska. BTW each home they renovated they got permits for & inspection certificates for each phase of renovation. Assuring all repairs were up to code. They are living the American dream now.


Well, they are living their American dream .  Good for them!


----------



## debodun

Keesha said:


> Do you think you’re fun to work with or work for?



I may not be fun to work for, but I am paying them, so that makes me the *BOSS *whether I am a woman or not. Contractors are in business to work, not have fun while I am paying them.


----------



## Aneeda72

debodun said:


> I may not be fun to work for, but I am paying them, so that makes me the *BOSS*. Contractors are in business to work, not have fun while I am paying them.


Hmm, I guess I disagree.  If anyone was working on my house at lunch time, I bought them lunch.  During the winter I served never ending hot chocolate or coffee, summer-water or kool aid.  I let them use my husbands bathroom .  Let the music blast, so wish I understood Spanish.

People in the trades are, well, people.  Just because you pay them doesn’t mean you own them.  I engaged them all in conversation when I could.  Asked about their families etc.  They always did excellent work with a few exceptions.  I think the exceptions were due to their skill level, lack of.

Most often than not, niceness gets you more.  I’ve often had someone in the trades say to me “I fixed this as well, but won’t charge you.”

It sounds to me like you may have a reputation in your town for being difficult to work for, what with the rules and all.  You might need to change your “I am the boss” attitude to “thanks for coming” in order to get work done.  But, lol, I still think you should sell.


----------



## debodun

I guess we'll gave to agree to disagree.


----------



## Keesha

debodun said:


> I may not be fun to work for, but I am paying them, so that makes me the *BOSS *whether I am a woman or not. Contractors are in business to work, not have fun while I am paying them.


Absolutely BUT how’s it working for you so far?


----------



## debodun

I've been bamboozled so may times by contractors, I am on the defensive now. I want them to know I am not an old woman that's going to be taken advantage of. Seems they don't like that. When I did my aunt's estate and had someone in to fix a crack in the foundation, he asked to use the bathroom and left a huge log in the toilet and didn't even flush it - and you ask me why I feel the way I do about handymen...


----------



## Pepper

UGH!!


----------



## Pepper

Maybe you state your rules too soon in the process @debodun.   No one likes being on the defensive before things even begin.


----------



## Aneeda72

debodun said:


> I've been bamboozled so may times by contractors, I am on the defensive now. I want them to know I am not an old woman that's going to be taken advantage of. Seems they don't like that. When I did my aunt's estate and had someone in to fix a crack in the foundation, he asked to use the bathroom and left a huge log in the toilet and didn't even flush it - and you ask me why I feel the way I do about handymen...


Nasty but it happens as people are use to self flushers and forget to flush.


----------



## hollydolly

Aneeda72 said:


> Hmm, I guess I disagree.  If anyone was working on my house at lunch time, I bought them lunch.  During the winter I served never ending hot chocolate or coffee, summer-water or kool aid.  I let them use my husbands bathroom .  Let the music blast, so wish I understood Spanish.
> 
> People in the trades are, well, people.  Just because you pay them doesn’t mean you own them.  I engaged them all in conversation when I could.  Asked about their families etc.  They always did excellent work with a few exceptions.  I think the exceptions were due to their skill level, lack of.
> 
> Most often than not, niceness gets you more.  I’ve often had someone in the trades say to me “I fixed this as well, but won’t charge you.”
> 
> It sounds to me like you may have a reputation in your town for being difficult to work for, what with the rules and all.  You might need to change your “I am the boss” attitude to “thanks for coming” in order to get work done.  But, lol, I still think you should sell.


 I could have written this. This is exactly how I treat tradesman in my home, and for that I get the best work,


----------



## Keesha

Answer too harsh


----------



## Don M.

Contractors are generally hard working people and deserve to be treated nicely.  

A couple of years ago, we had to have our roofing replaced.  I found what sounded like a good contractor, and made an appointment.  They showed up on time, went right to work, and did a great job.  While they were working, I cleaned up all the old shingles with my tractor, and the wife kept them supplied with coffee, iced tea, and cold water....and even offered to make them some lunch...which they declined, as they brought their own.   We left the back door open so they could access the rear bathroom as needed.  When the job was all done, they charged me about $400 less than the estimate because I saved them a lot of time and work by carting the old shingles to the dumpster.   

We started out on a friendly basis, I stayed out of their way, and we parted friends.  I got a good roof, and left a positive review on their website.  

It has been my experience that if you treat others respectfully, you get respected.


----------



## Pepper

Keesha said:


> Answer too harsh


----------



## Keesha

Pepper said:


>


I’m not good at giving honest criticism.


----------



## gennie

debodun said:


> I may not be fun to work for, but I am paying them, so that makes me the *BOSS *whether I am a woman or not. Contractors are in business to work, not have fun while I am paying them.


Actually, most contractors work for themselves.  That's why they can choose who they work for.  If a client seems to be more trouble than the job is worth, they can decline.


----------



## StarSong

My parents and in-laws treated contractors and handy men with great respect for their craftsmanship and human needs.  Provided cold beverages, snacks, a clean restroom, paid a decent wage and didn't try to bargain down their prices. 

We modeled this same behavior for our children and they likewise have had excellent relationships with their contractors. Humans want to be treated well and work in a pleasant environment.

If a worker leaves a mess, I've found that nothing more is needed than a polite conversation the following morning.


----------



## Pinky

When we had a house, we always made certain to have bottles of water, soda and coffee/tea on hand for them to partake of. 

I made lunch sandwiches for the movers who unloaded my furniture when I moved to Australia. 

On the flip-side, my ex was a contractor, and when I accompanied him on a few jobs, we were always treated well. Customers gave us bottles of water, tea/coffee, biscuits .. and many had conversation with me, in particular and invited us inside. One family brought out a plate of fruit, and another family welcomed us to join in on a family party. A few gave us a bottle of good wine on job completion. Only one time, did a client insist we knock at the back door (for Tradesmen). They were a bit snobby.


----------



## debodun

Well, I treat others like they treat me. Many of the tradespeople I've dealt with have an imperious and condescending attitude.


----------



## Aneeda72

debodun said:


> Well, I treat others like they treat me. Many of the tradespeople I've dealt with have an imperious and condescending attitude.


Probably because of your rules and attitude.  Sorry but this is my opinion.  Anyone who comes into your house, ANYONE, is a guest and should be treated as such.  Guest rules apply.

How someone treats you is not a yardstick to measure how you treat them or others.  “Kill them with kindness”.  .


----------

