# Here's how much the covid-19 stimulus will cost you.



## Knight (Mar 19, 2021)

A few like me have posted the stimulus for Covid would eventually end up increasing taxes to pay for what is being sent out now. This article projects the increase. 

Typically some portion of an article is posted. This is a portion.


Kevin A. Hassett
Thu, March 18, 2021, 3:30 AM
With all the trillion-dollar numbers spinning about government policy these days, it’s easy to lose perspective on the scale of recent federal spending. We decided to put the past year’s policy into perspective by calculating the future tax hike that would be necessary to pay the bills rung up since January, 2020. What the average American owes for the stimulus will shock you.

The exercise is not farfetched. Rumors spread throughout Washington last week that the Biden administration is considering tax hikes to pay for COVID-19 relief enacted this year and last. To some extent, it is amazing that the U.S. experienced a 32 percent drop in GDP in the second quarter of last year and did not dive into a depression, and some credit is surely due to those who crafted stimulus bills. On the other hand, the five bills passed to provide relief, once one subtracts out loans that will be repaid, together added $5.3 trillion to the debt that you, dear reader, will have to pay back someday. Think of COVID-19 relief as a new car payment, of course without any delivery of four wheels, an engine, or a chassis. When you see the numbers, you will realize that the comparison is not an exaggeration.

This is not an academic exercise. The thing about debt is that it eventually has to be paid. There is no such thing, annoying economists like us tend to remind too often, as a free lunch. Even if the debt is rolled over ad infinitum, the lunch is not free because taxpayers have to pay higher interest each year to cover the additional borrowing, which crowds out other government services. Milton Friedman famously argued against aggressive stimulus because, he said, taxpayers would look ahead to their future tax hikes and save today to prepare themselves for the worst. Whatever the government tries to do will be futile.

It is possible that lower spending will eventually offset the debt from all this stimulus, but what if, as the Biden team signaled this week, the stimulus bill is paid for with tax hikes? Just to make it personal, wouldn’t you like to know what your tax bill will be for all the stimulus packages, so you can, with your usual rational panache, save in order to finance your new liability just as Friedman suggested all rational people would do?

To find out, we relied on a methodology that was developed by one of us (Jensen) and his coauthor Aspen Gorry in a 2011 article. The idea is that the current distribution of taxes paid is the result of a political process that has evolved in almost Darwinian fashion over time and thus is likely to persist. Tax hikes come and go, but the basic distribution of taxes paid varies much less than you might think, with the wealthiest paying the vast majority of taxes under both Republican and Democratic administrations. It is highly unlikely that a bill as high as $5.3 trillion will be distributed differently from today’s taxes. The richest of the rich simply don’t have that much money. Once we accept that assumption that the future tax hike will be distributed according to today’s distribution of taxes, we can estimate the tax bill for each income level.

How are taxes distributed? According to calculations based on the Tax-Brain software available at PSLmodels.org we found that in 2020, individuals with incomes below $75,000 paid about 12 percent of total taxes, while those with incomes between $75,000 and $200,000 paid about 34 percent of taxes, and those with incomes above that paid the rest.

Assuming that pattern holds, the attached chart shows how a future tax bill associated with COVID-19 relief would be distributed. Even with the high progressivity of the current tax code, the bills are extraordinary. For those with incomes between $30,000 and $40,000, the tax hike needed today to pay for the combined stimulus packages would be about $5,000. Those with incomes between $40,000 and $50,000 would pay about $9,000, while those earning between $50,000 and $75,000 would have to fork over $16,000. That rises to $27,000 for incomes between $75,000 and $100,000, and $51,000 for incomes between $100,000 and $200,000. For higher earners, the bills climb so fast that they jump off the chart. The average for Americans with incomes between $500,000 and $1 million is $304,000. A typical American family, with $88,000 of income, faces a bill near $27,000.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/much-covid-19-stimulus-cost-103013941.html

Probably better to read the entire article to get an understanding of what the article author's credentials are & consider the impact.


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## HoneyNut (Mar 20, 2021)

Well I'm not the best one to reply because I am not fond of economics and I tried to read the article at the link but it was just too jargon-y.  
But, I know there are two sides to this because we lived thru the Great Recession.  From what little I have read, the stimulus during the 2007-2009 recession was too small to be effective.  Supposedly the negatives of doing too big a stimulus is less than the negative of doing too little.   I vaguely remember getting maybe $300 stimulus during the 2007-2009 recession and frankly that amount was laughable.  
I knew people during the 2007-2009 recession that lost good paying jobs, couldn't make their house payments, housing price dropped too low to pay off the mortgage when selling the house and so then they were out all their equity, out of income, and naturally not paying any income tax.  
I myself lost my job for a year and a half during the Great Recession.  I had some months of severence pay, but I lost out on at least 14 months of income, wiped out my emergency funds, and uncle sam lost out on all the taxes I would have paid during that time, plus property values dropped so the state/local also lost some property tax dollars.  Even after jobs came back, for a while they weren't paying as high, so I lost more $$ from that, and Uncle Sam didn't get as much either.  I have coworkers now that are having to work late in life because their retirement money got wiped out by that recession.
If the stimulus package last year and this year successfully prevents a big recession that is worth a lot more $$ than the cost of the stimulus, which is the whole point of them doing a stimulus I think.


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## Murrmurr (Mar 20, 2021)

The article didn't mention other tax revenue, though: social insurance taxes (the second-largest tax resource at about 25%), consumption taxes, property taxes, and corporate income taxes. I believe individual income taxes pay about 40% percent of total tax revenue (federal, state, and local). 
Of course, people need to work and business need to open for _any_ of the numbers to matter.


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## Don M. (Mar 20, 2021)

There is No Free Lunch.  When the government, or an individual, runs up debt, it either has to be paid back, or the eventual result is Bankruptcy.  Our government ran up a massive debt during WWII, and raised taxes to as high as 92% in the late 40's/early 50's, and paid it off....resulting in the US economy doing great for the rest of the 20th century.  Today, Washington spends endlessly, with No plans to pay the debt.  Our leaders need to review what has happened in Argentina, and Greece, in recent years, when their governments did the same.  

If some sense of fiscal responsibility isn't practiced in the not too distant future, we may be faced with a major devaluation of the dollar, and if that happens, the costs of everything, for the consumers, will skyrocket.   Gas=$10/gal, loaf of bread=$10, dozen eggs=$12, electric bill=$600/mo., new economy car=$65,000, and on, and on.  

These stimulus packages may seem nice, today....but they could be a contributing factor to the economic collapse that Will occur in the future, IF our government doesn't begin to exhibit some Common Sense.


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## ProTruckDriver (Mar 20, 2021)

Talk about tax increase just for the stimulus, we must not forget about the people coming over the boarder by the thousands now. Most of them not Covid tested and some tested positive for Covid and still allowed to travel. They will be getting Welfare, Food Stamps, Housing, Free Medical and more. Us tax payers will be paying for the stimulus and for the people coming over the boarder. I see in the very near future that taxes will sky rocket for all working people and the retiree's.


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## Knight (Mar 21, 2021)

The stimulus isn't the only contribution to the debt & deficit but it is going to drive up the deficit.  As Don M explained there is no free lunch & ProTruckDriver mentioned there are other factors impacting the economy that take taxes to pay for.  Yes for sure getting money from the federal government is nice. But the debt & deficit have increased & will have to be paid & that comes from taxes.  

Jobs being replaced by robotics has been overlooked as a source of taxes gone forever. Unless the government finds some way to tax robots.


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## Ceege (Mar 21, 2021)

Think of how much the tax cuts for the wealthy cost us.

"By 2023, the tax law’s positive effect on economic growth will fade away entirely."
https://budget.house.gov/publicatio...p-tax-law-contributes-darkening-fiscal-future

And, as long as there is such a term as _corporate welfare_, I'm certainly not going to complain about stimulus  money that might keep people from being evicted from their homes and might improve the nutrition for growing children.  If we don't rescue these people now, we will have to support and treat them later.  And that could cost even more than stimulus.

Corporate Welfare: Beyond the Budgetary Cost https://www.mercatus.org/publications/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-beyond-budgetary-cost 

As long as people put this money back into the economy, it will also rescue our economy.  I'm using mine to put a new roof on my house.  That will put money into the places that make and sell the material needed.  It will put money into the pockets of the workers, who will then spend it on food, rent, and goods they need.


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## Liberty (Mar 21, 2021)

Ceege said:


> Think of how much the tax cuts for the wealthy cost us.
> 
> "By 2023, the tax law’s positive effect on economic growth will fade away entirely."
> https://budget.house.gov/publicatio...p-tax-law-contributes-darkening-fiscal-future
> ...


Here's the prez's tax plan as of a couple days ago.  Don't think many of us have objection to the ultra-wealthy paying their fair share, so we'll see, huh:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22336892/joe-biden-tax-hike


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## StarSong (Mar 21, 2021)

Liberty said:


> Here's the prez's tax plan as of a couple days ago.  Don't think many of us have objection to the ultra-wealthy paying their fair share, so we'll see, huh:
> https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22336892/joe-biden-tax-hike


From the article:

_"Now the White House and the president have started talking about his tax plan once again. When asked by ABC News’s George Stephanopoulos whether he’d be raising taxes in a recent interview, Biden’s answer was a matter-of-fact yes. *“Anybody making more than $400,000 will see a small to a significant tax increase,” he said, emphasizing that anyone making less than that won’t see “one single penny” in additional federal taxes.*

The politics aren’t going to be easy: It’s unlikely Biden will get any Republicans to go along with tax increases to fund an infrastructure bill (though it’s unclear if he’d get Republican votes on an infrastructure bill without taxes, either).

Some moderate Democrats might balk at the idea of tax increases, too. And some economists might question the idea of raising taxes as the economy recovers from a significant crisis. Still, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), perhaps the most powerful moderate in the Senate, has said he’s on board with tax increases to pay for an infrastructure and climate bill."_


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## ProTruckDriver (Mar 21, 2021)

Liberty said:


> Here's the prez's tax plan as of a couple days ago.  Don't think many of us have objection to the ultra-wealthy paying their fair share, so we'll see, huh:
> https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22336892/joe-biden-tax-hike


Yep, tax the wealthy and the Companies. Guess who pays for it in the end. *Y-O-U!*


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## SetWave (Mar 21, 2021)




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## Murrmurr (Mar 21, 2021)

If you took _all_ US billionaire’s money it would cover about 8% of where the US national debt was *before the first stimulus package* proposal. Does that mean we shouldn’t take the stimulus checks? No. It means we should be absolutely disgusted that trillions of tax dollars are spent wastefully every year.


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## Packerjohn (Mar 21, 2021)

Don M. said:


> There is No Free Lunch.  When the government, or an individual, runs up debt, it either has to be paid back, or the eventual result is Bankruptcy.  Our government ran up a massive debt during WWII, and raised taxes to as high as 92% in the late 40's/early 50's, and paid it off....resulting in the US economy doing great for the rest of the 20th century.  Today, Washington spends endlessly, with No plans to pay the debt.  Our leaders need to review what has happened in Argentina, and Greece, in recent years, when their governments did the same.
> 
> If some sense of fiscal responsibility isn't practiced in the not too distant future, we may be faced with a major devaluation of the dollar, and if that happens, the costs of everything, for the consumers, will skyrocket.   Gas=$10/gal, loaf of bread=$10, dozen eggs=$12, electric bill=$600/mo., new economy car=$65,000, and on, and on.
> 
> These stimulus packages may seem nice, today....but they could be a contributing factor to the economic collapse that Will occur in the future, IF our government doesn't begin to exhibit some Common Sense.


HA!  Same deal here in Canada.  Everyone seems to be happy with the "free" money.  The streets are full everyday with people shopping.  House prices are sky rocketing.  The day of judgement is coming.  Read this morning where 2/3 of the young people are almost declaring bankruptacy.  Yet, there are many happy people here using the almost free loans from the banks; buying up new vehicles, upgrading homes & all sorts of toys like ATV. snowmobiles and those "lovely" pontoon boats.  Go figure!


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## StarSong (Mar 21, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> If you took _all_ US billionaire’s money it would cover about 8% of where the US national debt was *before the first stimulus package* proposal. Does that mean we shouldn’t take the stimulus checks? No. It means we should be absolutely disgusted that trillions of tax dollars are spent wastefully every year.


Our country needs to stop subsidizing large, highly profitable corporations with extraordinary tax breaks.  Oil companies and Amazon come immediately to mind.


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## StarSong (Mar 21, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> HA!  Same deal here in Canada.  Everyone seems to be happy with the "free" money.  The streets are full everyday with people shopping.  House prices are sky rocketing.  The day of judgement is coming.  Read this morning where 2/3 of the young people are almost declaring bankruptacy.  Yet, there are many happy people here using the almost free loans from the banks; buying up new vehicles, upgrading homes & all sorts of toys like ATV. snowmobiles and those "lovely" pontoon boats.  Go figure!


I fear the current economic bubble is going to burst in a very ugly way.


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 21, 2021)

IMO it’s tempting to go after the rich but we would all be better off if we learned to be self sufficient and expect as little as possible from the government.

IMO we all need to pay our share if we expect to have a voice in our future as a nation.

After we eat the rich what then?

Go after each other?


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## HoneyNut (Mar 21, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> Yet, there are many happy people here using the almost free loans from the banks; buying up new vehicles, upgrading homes & all sorts of toys like ATV. snowmobiles and those "lovely" pontoon boats.


But this is exactly what will stimulate the economy, it is desirable and good, this is why they are holding interest rates down.  The spending will increase the economy, then the interest rates will be raised to avoid too much stimulation or inflation.  It is a constant balancing act.  Ideally the steering is done so subtly we don't swerve back and forth in the road, but sometimes something happens (like a global pandemic) that heads us sharply in one direction (recession) then the steering may feel scary to us as they pull sharply back in the other direction (inflation).  But we just have to trust that they will steady the steering back to a balanced position as soon as they feel we've avoided running off the road in the recession direction.


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## Pepper (Mar 21, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO it’s tempting to go after the rich but we would all be better off if we learned to be self sufficient and expect as little as possible from the government.
> 
> IMO we all need to pay our share if we expect to have a voice in our future as a nation.
> 
> ...


"Kill my landlord"
Eddie Murphy


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## SetWave (Mar 21, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO it’s tempting to go after the rich but we would all be better off if we learned to be self sufficient and expect as little as possible from the government.
> 
> IMO we all need to pay our share if we expect to have a voice in our future as a nation.
> 
> ...


If it actually came to that . . . I suppose so. Let's hope not.


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## Pepper (Mar 21, 2021)

When we were growing up, when the USA was the envy of the modern world, take a look at what the tax rates were then.  

No complaining about helping people while taxes keep getting cut for the rich.


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## SetWave (Mar 21, 2021)

I'll go and gather more dollars for the fire . . .


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## Knight (Mar 21, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO it’s tempting to go after the rich but we would all be better off if we learned to be self sufficient and expect as little as possible from the government.
> 
> IMO we all need to pay our share if we expect to have a voice in our future as a nation.
> 
> ...


Part of one of my posts included the caveat of "those that pay federal taxes" .  Once as you point out that eating the rich does all it can there is only one option. 

I don't expect taxes to increase for those that pay federal taxes to begin this year mainly because politicians are good at delaying facing reality.  But at some point in the not to distant future reality will catch up. IMO a VAT might be part of the solution to begin closing the deficit on the mounting debt.


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## Don M. (Mar 21, 2021)

Knight said:


> I don't expect taxes to increase for those that pay federal taxes to begin this year mainly because politicians are good at delaying facing reality.  But at some point in the not to distant future reality will catch up. IMO a VAT might be part of the solution to begin closing the deficit on the mounting debt.



Exactly!  One way or another, this government is going to have to begin to balance the budget.....and a VAT, much like many other nations use, is the Most Likely Option.  Here's a list of the nations already doing so, and the rates they charge.....15 to 20% seems to be the norm...

https://www.uscib.org/value-added-tax-rates-vat-by-country/

Start saving now, as it is only a question of time before Everything we buy goes up in price....


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## Liberty (Mar 21, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> HA!  Same deal here in Canada.  Everyone seems to be happy with the "free" money.  The streets are full everyday with people shopping.  House prices are sky rocketing.  The day of judgement is coming.  Read this morning where 2/3 of the young people are almost declaring bankruptacy.  Yet, there are many happy people here using the almost free loans from the banks; buying up new vehicles, upgrading homes & all sorts of toys like ATV. snowmobiles and those "lovely" pontoon boats.  Go figure!


Did Canadians get a lot of stimulus bucks?


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## Packerjohn (Mar 22, 2021)

Liberty said:


> Did Canadians get a lot of stimulus bucks?


Actually yes!  Some, but not all, got $2,000/month for so many months.  They were so happy and "living off the proverbial hog" until they found out that this money is taxable.   My brother who lives in a tourist town said he never saw so many "city slickers" buying lumber for their cottages.  Always in amount of $2,000.  Me, I'm retired so no "government gifts" for me but hey, they can't fire me and I don't own anything to anyone.  Isn't that nice?


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## Butterfly (Mar 22, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> Talk about tax increase just for the stimulus, we must not forget about the people coming over the boarder by the thousands now. Most of them not Covid tested and some tested positive for Covid and still allowed to travel. They will be getting Welfare, Food Stamps, Housing, Free Medical and more. Us tax payers will be paying for the stimulus and for the people coming over the boarder. I see in the very near future that taxes will sky rocket for all working people and the retiree's.


Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for welfare, food stamps, free medical, etc.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Mar 24, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> Yep, tax the wealthy and the Companies. Guess who pays for it in the end. *Y-O-U!*


They are the ones that control Congress. They get all the tax breaks. Strange how certain people hate the so-called Welfare Queens but support Corporate Welfare wholeheartedly. The rich take advantage of loopholes that regular Americans have no access to.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 24, 2021)

Well, it won't cost me anything!  I don't pay taxes.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Mar 24, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> Talk about tax increase just for the stimulus, *we must not forget about the people coming over the boarder by the thousands now. *Most of them not Covid tested and some tested positive for Covid and still allowed to travel. They will be getting Welfare, Food Stamps, Housing, Free Medical and more. Us tax payers will be paying for the stimulus and for the people coming over the boarder. I see in the very near future that taxes will sky rocket for all working people and the retiree's.


I think you've been conned by a certain TV channel whose motto was "fair and balanced."


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## ProTruckDriver (Mar 24, 2021)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> I think you've been conned by a certain TV channel whose motto was "fair and balanced."


I don't watch any news channels on TV.  I listen to the "No Spin News"


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## Knight (Mar 24, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> Well, it won't cost me anything!  I don't pay taxes.


For now!
Raising taxes on corporations typically translates to higher prices so in effect corporate taxes are passed along to consumers. 

Then there is the idea that a few more trillions will be spent on the infrastructure adding to the debt & obviously the deficit. One way to tax is to pass legislation for a VAT.  That way every citizen pays some tax thru purchases. 

Include talk of inflation & the way that impacts consumers, the future is beginning to look a little dimmer for everyone. 

But let's wait and see what happens over the next few years because there has also been talk of a 3% hike in Soc. Sec. benefits.


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## Ruthanne (Mar 24, 2021)

Knight said:


> For now!
> Raising taxes on corporations typically translates to higher prices so in effect corporate taxes are passed along to consumers.
> 
> Then there is the idea that a few more trillions will be spent on the infrastructure adding to the debt & obviously the deficit. One way to tax is to pass legislation for a VAT.  That way every citizen pays some tax thru purchases.
> ...


I always find ways to get the best prices on things and I'm not going to worry about all that stuff you mentioned.  I'm not a big consumer of goods next to buying my groceries and paying my bills.


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## ProTruckDriver (Mar 24, 2021)

Knight said:


> there has also been talk of a 3% hike in Soc. Sec. benefits.


That's all? I want the hikes in benefits that the members of Congress gets.


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## Knight (Mar 25, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> I always find ways to get the best prices on things and I'm not going to worry about all that stuff you mentioned.  I'm not a big consumer of goods next to buying my groceries and paying my bills.


I understand there are many like yourself that for whatever reason don't pay federal taxes & possibly no state taxes on income. 

No matter what is spent a VAT on consumer items would help on bringing down the deficit. It would be every little bit helps. But we'll have to wait awhile to find out which administration will have to do something to get America out of the hole that keeps getting deeper.  I purposely posted " which administration " because politicians are hesitant about being the ones that increase taxes. 

They say death & taxes are the only sure things in life.  WE know both are coming just don't know when or how.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 25, 2021)

Well if the bill passes that raises taxes on the rich and big companies, that should cover part of the deficit. Warren Buffett stated a few years ago that it was ridiculous that his secretary paid more in taxes than he did. He advocated for the rich paying more, paying their fair share of the taxes. And gee...maybe the government will stop wasting money in so many ways and stop trying to be the big wig  by sending huge amounts of money to other countries.


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## ProTruckDriver (Mar 25, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> And gee...maybe the government will stop wasting money in so many ways


Good Luck


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## StarSong (Mar 26, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Well if the bill passes that raises taxes on the rich and big companies, that should cover part of the deficit.* Warren Buffett stated a few years ago that it was ridiculous that his secretary paid more in taxes than he did.* He advocated for the rich paying more, paying their fair share of the taxes. And gee...maybe the government will stop wasting money in so many ways and stop trying to be the big wig  by sending huge amounts of money to other countries.


To be clear, in 2007 Buffett said he suveyed his employees and compared their tax rates to his own.  He learned that the average tax rate for people in his office was 32.9%, while his was 17.7%, which he found ridiculous.


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## SetWave (Mar 26, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> Good Luck


But, gee it's important we pay for their lavish lifestyle.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 27, 2021)

StarSong said:


> To be clear, in 2007 Buffett said he suveyed his employees and compared their tax rates to his own.  He learned that the average tax rate for people in his office was 32.9%, while his was 17.7%, which he found ridiculous.


You're right. I should have said his secretary pays a higher *tax rate*. *Thank you* for clarifying Star! That's what happens when I'm up very late, tired and trying to social network.  LOL


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## StarSong (Mar 27, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> You're right. I should have said his secretary pays a higher *tax rate*. *Thank you* for clarifying Star! That's what happens when I'm up very late, tired and trying to social network. LOL


Been there, done that more times than I care to admit, Diva!


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## mathjak107 (Mar 31, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Well if the bill passes that raises taxes on the rich and big companies, that should cover part of the deficit. Warren Buffett stated a few years ago that it was ridiculous that his secretary paid more in taxes than he did. He advocated for the rich paying more, paying their fair share of the taxes. And gee...maybe the government will stop wasting money in so many ways and stop trying to be the big wig  by sending huge amounts of money to other countries.


..he said his secretary paid a higher tax rate ..big difference in statements .

buffets income is lower capital gains rates for a lot of it which may have been a lower rate back then but not anymore ...the amount in dollars  Buffett likely pays is many times what his secretary pays in taxes .

Buffett’s capital gains rate is 23.8% today ..his secretary is likely 12% to 22 %.

but many higher income earners have lots of carry over from expenses of businesses they. Started  or other projects they actually spent. Money on .

we have a much lower income in retirement.....but we pay almost no taxes since we closed out our LLC and had all the original costs associated to take ...so the wealthy usually have more going on than is apparent ....it make take us years to finally use up the carry over


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 31, 2021)

mathjak107 said:


> ..he said his secretary paid a higher tax rate ..big difference in statements .
> 
> buffets income is lower capital gains rates for a lot of it which may have been a lower rate back then but not anymore ...the amount in dollars  Buffett likely pays is many times what his secretary pays in taxes .
> 
> ...


Yes...StarSong already corrected me on that a few days ago and I acknowledged my error in expressing (what I actually meant). 
_"You're right. I should have said his secretary pays a higher *tax rate*. *Thank you* for clarifying Star! That's what happens when I'm up very late, tired and trying to social network. LOL _"





Quote Reply


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## garyt1957 (Apr 3, 2021)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> I think you've been conned by a certain TV channel whose motto was "fair and balanced."


How can you say that? Even if you wholeheartedly believe we should have open borders you have to admit there are HUGE costs associated with it.


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## Don M. (Apr 3, 2021)

One thing is for certain....with all this government spending, AND NO means to fund it....there will come a time where either taxes are going to be raised to post WWII levels, OR the dollar will become nearly worthless....much like the currencies of other nations which have mismanaged their finances.


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## ProTruckDriver (Apr 3, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for welfare, food stamps, free medical, etc.


If they're not, give it time, they will be very soon for FREE. They will get more benefits then you and I on our dime.


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## Knight (Apr 3, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> If they're not, give it time, they will be very soon for FREE. They will get more benefits then you and I on our dime.


For those that don't think illegal immigration is not a problem there must be some reason for thinking that way. I'd like to know how their thinking about illegals entering by the millions benefits people lucky enough to be born in America.


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## StarSong (Apr 4, 2021)

Knight said:


> For those that don't think illegal immigration is not a problem there must be some reason for thinking that way. I'd like to know how their thinking about illegals entering by the millions benefits people lucky enough to be born in America.


Very few Americans believe illegal immigration is not a problem.  We are nevertheless not released from our human obligation to treat people with dignity, and to provide for at least their basest needs while sorting out the situation.  

Separating babies, toddlers and young children from their parents would be a shocking strategy if employed by Boko Haram. That the US government chose this route was horrifying, infuriating and extraordinarily embarrassing.


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## Knight (Apr 4, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Very few Americans believe illegal immigration is not a problem.  We are nevertheless not released from our human obligation to treat people with dignity, and to provide for at least their basest needs while sorting out the situation.
> 
> Separating babies, toddlers and young children from their parents would be a shocking strategy if employed by Boko Haram. That the US government chose this route was horrifying, infuriating and extraordinarily embarrassing.


This Boko Haram?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ty-for-kidnapping-hundreds-of-boys-in-nigeria

As for dignity millions of tax dollars have been going to those countries over the years to provide for the needs of the population there. Yet the poverty, crime & general living conditions haven't changed & the population continues to grow. At some point enough is enough has to be changed by the population there.


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## StarSong (Apr 4, 2021)

I'm not going to argue politics or delve into the CIA's history of destabilizing governments and other unsavory US actions in Central America. 

You asked for feedback about how people felt about illegal immigration and I responded.


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## Knight (Apr 4, 2021)

StarSong said:


> I'm not going to argue politics or delve into the CIA's history of destabilizing governments and other unsavory US actions in Central America.
> 
> You asked for feedback about how people felt about illegal immigration and I responded.


OK 
Different views resolved amicably.


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