# This Shooting Thing is TOO Much



## Lon (Oct 26, 2014)

I don't have any solution to what seems to be a pandemic of kids shooting other kids, cops being shot and killed and it's every day now it seems.


----------



## country_dude001 (Oct 26, 2014)

It is really getting worse. We have to stand against that.


----------



## Davey Jones (Oct 26, 2014)

The NRA seems to love it as long as a gun is used and they can defend it.


----------



## Meanderer (Oct 26, 2014)

I think it is being reported 24/7, allowing for copy-cat shootings.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 26, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> The NRA seems to love it as long as a gun is used and they can defend it.




For sure....  The more shootings...  the more afraid people get... The more people are afraid,   the more they buy guns and ammo...  The more guns an ammo out there, the more shootings!   What's not to love??


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 26, 2014)

It seems to be the new culture now.  Many people think the violent video games, social media (bullying and put-downs), violent music lyrics and decline of family and role models are part of the problem.  Years ago, kids would just have a fist fight, talk to a friend or counselor, talk to their moms or dads about problems and ask advice.

Another issue is the drugging of these kids nowadays.  They're taking some normal behavior, or just some kids that are more excitable than others, and they're putting them on Ritalin, Prozac, even Xanax.  When the dose no longer dopes the kid up enough to calm him down, they'll increase the dosage or jump to another prescription drug with serious side effects.  All these kids that are diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, depression, etc. are given drugs that alter their minds and many times cause either suicide or homicide.

Anti-gun folks like to jump all over these cases for preach about how bad guns are, but like others have mentioned repeatedly, these instances all happen in gun-free zones, so there's no hope of stopping a shooter and saving an innocent victim.  There are people who are careless with their guns, and do not store them properly around these kids also.  Most gun owners are responsible, but that doesn't make headlines.

Many families have owned guns for many years without incident, the other reasons which lead to this behavior now should be addressed, not ignored.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 26, 2014)

> Most gun owners are responsible, but that doesn't make headlines.


A chain is only as strong as the weakest link. 



> Many families have owned guns for many years without incident, the other reasons which lead to this behavior now should be addressed, not ignored.


Totally agree with one modification - a*ll *the reasons that lead to this behaviour need to be looked at dispassionately and without preconceptions. 

First define the problem then look for all the possible causes. That's the start of problem solving.
Then comes experimenting with different solutions to see whether they are effective singly or in combination.

Too many people try to fit their favourite solution to a problem that they don't really understand because they haven't examined it properly in the first place.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 26, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Totally agree with one modification - a*ll *the reasons that lead to this behaviour need to be looked at dispassionately and without preconceptions.
> 
> First define the problem then look for all the possible causes. That's the start of problem solving.
> Then comes experimenting with different solutions to see whether they are effective singly or in combination.
> ...



I agree, none of it has been properly examined, that's part of the problem.  These things were not issues in the past, shootings like this were not issues in the past.  Something is going on in the present that needs to be addressed.  


Latest shooter's social media posts...http://heavy.com/news/2014/10/jaylen-fryberg-pilchuck-high-school-shooting/


__________



Back to the fact that these mass shootings are done by mentally ill people who are under the influence of prescription anti-psychotic, anti-depressant drugs which cause violent behavior and homicidal/suicidal tendencies...what's unfortunate is although most of Texas has the right to concealed carry, the military at this facility are not permitted to protect themselves, regardless of the previous shootings there.  Updates of this old listing to be sure, not going to beat this issue to death.


• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)
• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

• Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazepine.

• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

• Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.
Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?

• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado? (ZOLOFT)

• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?

• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct? 

 Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_ma...#ixzz2fHaNGdNo 

 The media likes to downplay the severe effects of these psychiatric drugs, because it is not in the best financial interests of the pharmaceutical companies, and in the end, it's all about the money...http://www.prisonplanet.com/media-bu...y-shooter.html 


________________



Violent music...http://www.complex.com/music/2013/0...-songs-of-all-time/mobb-deep-shook-ones-pt-ii


----------



## Butterfly (Oct 26, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> The NRA seems to love it as long as a gun is used and they can defend it.



Surely you do not really believe that the NRA (no matter what you think of them) applauds the shooting of children by other children, or the actions of other spree killers!  

What are some real examples of the NRA's "loving it" as it pertains to this kind of behavior??


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 26, 2014)

Butterfly said:


> Surely you do not really believe that the NRA (no matter what you think of them) applauds the shooting of children by other children, or the actions of other spree killers!
> 
> What are some real examples of the NRA's "loving it" as it pertains to this kind of behavior??



No.. I don't think the NRA is celebrating dead kids... What I DO think is that they see each mass shooting as a way to convince "good" people to purchase more guns and ammo... by telling them they can prevent these killings..  Remember the slogan "The way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"..  AND anything that sells more guns to increase the profits of the gun manufactureres is what the NRA loves... WHY?  because the NRA stopped being representative of the average gun owner and hunter, and is now a front for the large gun and ammo manufacturers.. WHY?  because they are the ones that support the NRA with $$$$... to advance their cause.  Unfortunately... money ALWAYS talks..


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 26, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> No.. I don't think the NRA is celebrating dead kids... What I DO think is that they see each mass shooting as a way to convince "good" people to purchase more guns and ammo... by telling them they can prevent these killings..



An in turn, I think the anti-gunners see each of these unfortunate 'mass' shootings as another opportunity to open their dialog against gun ownership, and further their agenda.  It's a shame to hear of these tragedies, and I wish the causes were addressed by those who 'care'.  Also emphasis to call even the shooting of one person in a public gun-free zone a "mass" shooting, another fear tactic, IMO.


----------



## tnthomas (Oct 26, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> The NRA seems to love it as long as a gun is used and they can defend it.



I don't know what that means, but I do know that responsible gun owners shudder when there's a rash of shootings, knowing full well that the  gun-control  politicians will be scrambling to throw together yet another round of gun restricting legislation.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 26, 2014)

> I don't know what that means, but I do know that responsible gun owners shudder when there's a rash of shootings, knowing full well that the  gun-control  politicians will be scrambling to throw together yet another round of gun restricting legislation.


A conflict of emotions?
Love of children versus love of guns?
Tough call for some and a no brainer for others.

However, death does tend to concentrate the mind. 

It is still too soon to reflect on Sandy Hook in a calm and rational way?
When is the right  time to look at the various laws across the country with 
the aim of establishing some uniformity in the interest of greater safety for everyone?


----------



## john1948 (Oct 26, 2014)

I think we need to clean up the local Police Dept. first, seems like they want to shoot anyone, at any time now, they need to be held to the same standard as any American. I just can't understand why people are putting up with this.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 26, 2014)

Yes, they look pretty scary to me and I am all for law enforcement.

What scares me the most is the aggression that they seem to show to everyone they stop, with guns drawn and loud shouting.
That poor pregnant lady who was in labor is just one example of what I mean.
I do know that her husband was speeding but he was panicking  and he did ring the emergency number.
I'm just glad that everything worked out OK on that occasion.

I'd hate to think that I, as a 71 year old woman, would ever be on the receiving end of such treatment.
If they shouted at me to lie on the ground I wouldn't be able to do it quickly at all.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> An in turn, I think the anti-gunners see each of these unfortunate 'mass' shootings as another opportunity to open their dialog against gun ownership, and further their agenda.  It's a shame to hear of these tragedies, and I wish the causes were addressed by those who 'care'.  Also emphasis to call even the shooting of one person in a public gun-free zone a "mass" shooting, another fear tactic, IMO.



That is absolute nonsense.


----------



## Just plain me (Oct 27, 2014)

Crooks are going to get guns if they want them, regardless. So as a head of a household should I be denied a gun to protect my family? This is the argument that I address to those who beleive in gun control where only the police can get guns. I do beleive that background checks should be done before a gun is sold. But this has never stopped a criminal from getting guns if they want them. Just like it doesn't stop "meth', "crack", etc.  from being sold on the street. I do beleive that no one has mentioned the fact that alot of crime is done by those who will do what it takes to get "their fix." If we could address this issue with some solution it would help. But I realize that I am living in a time when this is not likely to happen. As long as there is a demand there will be a supplier. The Love of Money is the root of all evil. Not money, just making it first and foremost.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2014)

Just plain me said:


> Crooks are going to get guns if they want them, regardless. So as a head of a household should I be denied a gun to protect my family? This is the argument that I address to those who beleive in gun control where only the police can get guns. I do beleive that background checks should be done before a gun is sold. But this has never stopped a criminal from getting guns if they want them. Just like it doesn't stop "meth', "crack", etc. from being sold on the street. I do beleive that no one has mentioned the fact that alot of crime is done by those who will do what it takes to get "their fix." If we could address this issue with some solution it would help. But I realize that I am living in a time when this is not likely to happen. As long as there is a demand there will be a supplier. The Love of Money is the root of all evil. Not money, just making it first and foremost.



I'm not sure how this nonsense gets started... well, actually, I AM sure.. The NRA has done it's damndest to instill fear in gun owners, by stoking the falsehood that someone is "coming to take your guns away". NO ONE is advocating for taking anyones guns.. The most adamant gun control people would want assault weapons banned... but most.. me included, would like to see background checks, and limits on the size of clips and magazines available.. Nobody needs a 100 round magazine for home protection. Also, we would like to see a ban on "strawman" purchases, where a person can go into a gun show and buy an unlimited amount of firearms and can legally turn around and sell them in the parking lot.... to anyone, with no background check. Does ANY of that sound like a black helicopter is going to land on you lawn and take your gun? OR prevent you from buying more?


----------



## Justme (Oct 27, 2014)

Allowing people to carry guns for protection is CRAZY! In the UK it isn't permitted and although there is gun crime it isn't anything like terrible situation in the US!


----------



## Davey Jones (Oct 27, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> No.. I don't think the NRA is celebrating dead kids... What I DO think is that they see each mass shooting as a way to convince "good" people to purchase more guns and ammo... by telling them they can prevent these killings..  Remember the slogan "The way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"..  AND anything that sells more guns to increase the profits of the gun manufactureres is what the NRA loves... WHY?  because the NRA stopped being representative of the average gun owner and hunter, and is now a front for the large gun and ammo manufacturers.. WHY?  because they are the ones that support the NRA with $$$$... to advance their cause.  Unfortunately... money ALWAYS talks..


Ya forgot the NRA has most of Congress in their pockets.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Ya forgot the NRA has most of Congress in their pockets.



No, I haven't forgotten at all..  that goes without saying...  That's where their power comes from.. The huge contributions to political campaigns come from the money the NRA gets from gun manufacturers.  They couldn't have the power they have without the $$$ and Congress scared $hiitless of them scoring any votes for gun sanity, and instituting a primary challenge and negative ads against anyone who doesn't do their bidding.  All the more reason to pass a Constitutional amendment to repeal the Citizen's United ruling and get money out of politics.


----------



## Just plain me (Oct 27, 2014)

I agree with you QuickSilver on some level. But my grandson was hit by a car, on purpose and left lying in the middle of the road this summer. So should we consider a car a weapon? I think a person who wants to do harm to someone is going to find a way. I agree with the "assualt ban". But who says it is going to stop there.Given the idiots we have in office over-all, are you willing to let your goverment handle the problem. I don't know the answer but some of the main problem with me is that big goverment is taking to much of our individual freedoms away. Okay. I think each should read this page. Some bills are good. Some are not. Read and then tell me, which bills you would support and which one you would not and why?   Here is the page:http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/42512452855/there-are-31-gun-control-bills-active-in-congress-right


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2014)

Just plain me said:


> I agree with you QuickSilver on some level. But my grandson was hit by a car, on purpose and left lying in the middle of the road this summer. So should we consider a car a weapon? I think a person who wants to do harm to someone is going to find a way. I agree with the "assualt ban". But who says it is going to stop there.Given the idiots we have in office over-all, are you willing to let your goverment handle the problem. I don't know the answer but some of the main problem with me is that big goverment is taking to much of our individual freedoms away. Okay. I think each should read this page. Some bills are good. Some are not. Read and then tell me, which bills you would support and which one you would not and why? Here is the page:http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/42512452855/there-are-31-gun-control-bills-active-in-congress-right




OK... if you want to compare guns to cars.. Let's do it. Cars are MUCH more regulated than Guns. You have to pass a drivers test to drive one. You have to have your drivers license renewed and sometimes you are required to be retested... You HAVE to have liability insurance on your car in case someone is injured or you do damage to property.  Your car is registered to you by its serial number. The government is aware of who owns each and every vehicle in the country!   So I'm all for treating guns the same as we treat cars.. Is that what you REALLY meant?


----------



## ClassicRockr (Oct 27, 2014)

Sure would like to hear from our member "911", the retired PA State Trooper concerning law enforcement shootings. As for me, I don't criticize law enforcement shootings at all b/c none of us, other than perhaps "911", has been in the situation of "shoot or be shot" or as the Marine Corp and Army teaches "kill or be killed". When an officer's life is in danger, his service revolver is his protection! When an officer tells a person to do something, that person is required to do what he/she is told.

What I also see is.........a WHOLE LOT of anger, and even hatred, in today's society.

Where is that member, 911, when I need him?


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2014)

What does this have to do with the topic of mass killings?  Has anyone said cops shouldn't be armed?


----------



## ClassicRockr (Oct 27, 2014)

Yes, QuickSilver, *this* reply did talk about law enforcement!



john1948 said:


> I think we need to clean up the local Police Dept. first, seems like they want to shoot anyone, at any time now, they need to be held to the same standard as any American. I just can't understand why people are putting up with this.


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 27, 2014)

When performed by the government, mass killings are not only planned, authorized and encouraged but also legally proscribed.

They call them "wars".

Just don't do it as a private citizen.


----------



## rt3 (Oct 27, 2014)

2nd amendment isn't about hunting, target shooting or gun collecting. there is no unalienable right to have a car  ----- your  analogy is unacceptable

government sanctioned shooting=assassinate

your chances are greater of being hit by lightening are greater than being the victim of a mass shooting

magazine capacities do not affect crime rates, the last ones the Clinton's passed sunset in 2009 --- because they were ineffective.
several states currently have mag limits,  Colo, Conn. NY   --- the sheriffs in those states have state they will not enforce the law,  no way to tell when they were made etc.

and again,  there is no such thing as a straw purchase, the person buying the gun is committing a felony when they lie on the 4733 form. Its the first question on the form in big letters. there is no need for a Straw purchase anti gun freak interpretation of a law that is already on the books, but just like criminals to lie --- those darn guys


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> When performed by the government, mass killings are not only planned, authorized and encouraged but also legally proscribed.
> 
> They call them "wars".
> 
> Just don't do it as a private citizen.



You don't think there is a differnce between the regulated military and civilian gun violence?   Are you personally a member of a "well regulated militia"?  Do you attend training camps?  And when did  "well regulated militia" get twisted to mean "well armed unregulated populace"?


----------



## rt3 (Oct 27, 2014)

That is your twisted interpretation of the 2nd. amendment. I have cited the Supreme courts rulings several times on this forum, as to their position on self defense and firearms.  The court has not ruled on the militia definition because it is a non-issue. Your socialist interpretation is un-acceptable.


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 27, 2014)

rt3 said:


> government sanctioned shooting=assassinate



So Booth, Guiteau, Czolgosz, Oswald ... they all had government sanction? 



			
				QuickSilver said:
			
		

> You don't think there is a differnce between the regulated military and  civilian gun violence?



No - killing is killing. Death is death. 



> Are you personally a member of a "well  regulated militia"?  Do you attend training camps?



I f I were, I wouldn't say.



> And when did  "well  regulated militia" get twisted to mean "well armed unregulated  populace"?



Because while those "militias" are being sent far overseas to take care of other people's problems, we're left here naked and vulnerable to the beast within.


----------



## Just plain me (Oct 27, 2014)

And what does it help the person being shot that the car is registered when in most of the drive-by shootings no one can give the license plate and most of the time won't if they know. Why? because they know the criminals have guns. Look at Illinoise no gun law and yet  see these statistics http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/ilcrime.htm. Also here is the Illinois no gun law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois. I admit it is far from perfect. Cannot understand why they let people from out of state not have to abide by the same rules while in their state. But the point being I don't think it helped. Here is another interesting census. Look at Illinois rate for Murder in 1912 and compare it's ranking in the US.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2014)

Just plain me said:


> And what does it help the person being shot that the car is registered when in most of the drive-by shootings no one can give the license plate and most of the time won't if they know. Why? because they know the criminals have guns. Look at Illinoise no gun law and yet  see these statistics http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/ilcrime.htm. Also here is the Illinois no gun law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois. I admit it is far from perfect. Cannot understand why they let people from out of state not have to abide by the same rules while in their state. But the point being I don't think it helped. Here is another interesting census. Look at Illinois rate for Murder in 1912 and compare it's ranking in the US.



What I am saying is that guns should be regulated exactly the way cars are regulated..  No one is coming for your car.. are they?  BUT you are licensed.. You are insured and you are in a State data base, and that information is shared nationally.  You are the one that asked if we should call cars a weapon.. and so I told you... YES..  and here is how we regulate cars.


----------



## rt3 (Oct 27, 2014)

Nations states have always had their own assignation squads, (not against it) Moussed, Seals, KGB, etc. It doesn't make it different only sanctioned, the difference in the one you gave those weren't sanctioned. sorry if that wasn't plain.

Your rights to drive a car are not unalienable.

Some uninformed in this forum would have you believe that gun confiscation in the US does not occur.  California currently has a separate department in most Sheriffs office, whose only job is nothing but confiscation of firearms.  I think New York does also, all from those State data bases. 
targeted people
returning vets who show tramatic stress disorder 
any domestic restraining order
outstanding warrants.

direct violation of due process and confiscation without reimbursement. -- but they broke the law--- and shouldn't have guns, maybe, but that's what due process is about. 

because more deaths occur due to prescription drugs, we should regulate, register the owners, but wait they are registered. gee doesn't seem to work, those darn people


----------



## Butterfly (Oct 28, 2014)

The fact that cars are properly registered doesn't keep them from being stolen and misused.  I can testify to this from personal knowledge -- from the time my car was stolen in Washington, DC from one of those valet parking lots and the time someone attempted to steal another car of mine but were thwarted by my dogs raising cain -- the potential thieves DID manage to  seriously damage the steering column as they tried to get the car started.  In both instances the cars were properly registered, licensed, tagged and insured.  

The problerm isn't the car or the firearm, it is the idiot/criminal using them.  

"People aren't coming for your car" -- try leaving one unlocked and see what happens.


----------



## hearlady (Jun 29, 2018)

Well, this thread is from 2014. Not much has changed since then except the response time in Annapolis was very quick and saved more lives. At least that's one thing.


----------



## Camper6 (Jun 29, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> Surely you do not really believe that the NRA (no matter what you think of them) applauds the shooting of children by other children, or the actions of other spree killers!
> 
> What are some real examples of the NRA's "loving it" as it pertains to this kind of behavior??



They are against any laws that might mitigate the carnage taking place. Their motto is that the second amendment should not be infringed.

Well to infringe means you can't even put your foot one  inch on my property.

That's the only argument I have against them.


----------



## Camper6 (Jun 29, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> The fact that cars are properly registered doesn't keep them from being stolen and misused.  I can testify to this from personal knowledge -- from the time my car was stolen in Washington, DC from one of those valet parking lots and the time someone attempted to steal another car of mine but were thwarted by my dogs raising cain -- the potential thieves DID manage to  seriously damage the steering column as they tried to get the car started.  In both instances the cars were properly registered, licensed, tagged and insured.
> 
> The problerm isn't the car or the firearm, it is the idiot/criminal using them.
> 
> "People aren't coming for your car" -- try leaving one unlocked and see what happens.



That doesn't eliminate  the registration or the issuance of licenses or laws that dictate the rules of driving like speeding laws and parking laws or whatever and without them there would be chaos.  Everyone for himself.  How many idiots have you seen driving that think they are in the Indianapolis 500?


----------



## rgp (Jun 29, 2018)

john1948 said:


> I think we need to clean up the local Police Dept. first, seems like they want to shoot anyone, at any time now, they need to be held to the same standard as any American. I just can't understand why people are putting up with this.




 One question.......just exactly how long should they [police] wait , in which to decide if this person they encounter in the dark, running from them, is a good guy or a bad guy? And how long should they wait to decide if this person just reached for his phone.....or a gun?

OK, that's two questions <grin>

When you arrive at a time...please let the police know, because at this time they are working from experience & instinct.........Have they been doing it wrong all this time?

Basically all one needs to do to avoid an encounter with the police is simply ..behave.


----------



## gumbud (Jun 29, 2018)

was the lady 'misbehaving' who called out the police about fighting in her apartment block and was shot dead on greeting them??


----------



## rgp (Jun 29, 2018)

gumbud said:


> was the lady 'misbehaving' who called out the police about fighting in her apartment block and was shot dead on greeting them??




 No, never said she was . Any situation can go bad in a heartbeat , and sometimes mistakes are made. But....that is not / was not the normal police / thug encounter. And the details were never clearly explained....IMO . Not making excuses for possible bad police work...but I'd like to know more about it.


----------



## gumbud (Jun 30, 2018)

surely looking at the gun laws and uses in other countries might be a sane way to go?? - or is it all too late?


----------



## rgp (Jun 30, 2018)

gumbud said:


> surely looking at the gun laws and uses in other countries might be a sane way to go?? - or is it all too late?



Not sure of your point?....But IMO law has little or nothing to do with it. Criminals ignore the law. So how could they [laws] be changed , to make a difference?

Perhaps make gun offences more serious in terms of punishment? A gun involved crime , an automatic death sentence if found guilty? Punishment to be carried out six? months after conviction.

The guy that shot the congresswoman out in Arizona for example.

   A trial is for the preponderance of evidence , to determine innocence or guilt.

  He......just shot & killed a seven year old girl, and gravely wounded the congresswoman. He was literally standing there , smoking gun still in hand!
He needed *NO* trial......He was guilty.

As far as I am concerned...he should have been executed that very night! And let it be known. Then maybe the next guy with such thoughts might just re-think things.


----------



## Shalimar (Jun 30, 2018)

I get the anger and frustration, but vigilante behaviour scares me more than criminals. One step from anarchy.


----------



## rgp (Jun 30, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I get the anger and frustration, but vigilante behaviour scares me more than criminals. One step from anarchy.



Well, I obviously & respectfully disagree. Anger, frustration?..yeah I suppose, but most of it is aimed at my fellow citizens & the authorities now in place.
Our continuing soft position on crime does not & never will serve as a deterrent to crime.

 And IMO it would not be vigilante if carried out by the authorities put in place.... basically by our vote.


----------



## Keesha (Jun 30, 2018)

gumbud said:


> surely looking at the gun laws and uses in other countries might be a sane way to go???


It’s pointless stating the obvious.


----------



## Big Horn (Jun 30, 2018)

gumbud said:


> surely looking at the gun laws and uses in other countries might be a sane way to go?? - or is it all too late?


It became too late in the afternoon of April 19, 1775.


----------



## Manatee (Jul 3, 2018)

If y'all took the time to read the NRA magazine, they publish every month short articles about people who defended themselves and others from criminals.  You will never see this in the mainstream media because it doesn't fit their agenda.


----------



## Meanderer (Jul 3, 2018)




----------

