# A littly rocky with my 42 year old daughter and her Sister n Law



## Talon1952 (Mar 29, 2022)

G'day everyone, Ok first off I am a single living alone senior who will be 70 in May (to help you know where I'm at)

Now, the other day It was my Daughters Birthday and all the In-laws (2) myself and the 2 kids were there (Granddaughter 12 Grandson 8)

I instigated a conversation which though was very important to discuss as my GD is starting to show normal interest in boys and she is very attractive for her age,

the discussion was should she be allowed to go to school with her midriff showing and that parents of young males need to set the boundaries for their boys at that age which is fine,

my comment to that was yes, but not all parents will take the time to do that and just let their boys be boys and Biology will just take it's course

and somehow it got turned into the right for women to dress as they feel and not be sexually gratified by their male peers,

I replied why not just remove the option of clothing style in the first place and that removes the risk, that's when all hell broke loose, next thing I know the kids aunt is telling me to F-Off,

now I'm upset, daughter is upset etc..I said nothing when this happened as the kids were present, much later I informed my Daughter that any more functions that were going to be all included I would not attend as to avoid any future conflict going forward not to mention it will be extremely uncomfortable for me to be present after this episode, so please inform me if the Aunt was going to be present or not,

A bit of back story on the Aunt, she is approx. 45 has a good job, single never been in a relationship and obese ( I believe she simply hates men) and still lives with her mother (she does contribute to the household), she has, in the past made a habit of always correcting me and others over a wide variety of topics,

she has done this so often that anytime the group is together I avoid any meaningful conversation at all for fear of being corrected in front of the kids, which to me is a huge no no. (I am the only surviving Male Grandparent), so have I made a huge error here or what?

Things are going to be awkward enough with the son in law and his mom when we next get together never mind throwing her into the mix.


Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions
Talon1952

_- reformatted for easy read by JonSR77_


----------



## caroln (Mar 29, 2022)

I tried reading your post and couldn't finish unfortunately.  PLEASE USE punctuation to separate sentences and divide up an extremely long post into paragraphs.  I know I'll probably get bashed for this post and be called a punctuation nazi or something, but honestly I can't read posts like that.


----------



## Medusa (Mar 29, 2022)

caroln said:


> I tried reading your post and couldn't finish unfortunately.  PLEASE USE punctuation to separate sentences and divide up an extremely long post into paragraphs.  I know I'll probably get bashed for this post and be called a punctuation nazi or something, but honestly I can't read posts like that.


I don't think you should get bashed for such a comment; it is extremely difficult to parse out what a person is trying to communicate when punctuation is missing.  I have the same trouble and usually give up.  

@Talon1952 , I'm sure many want to read your post and are interested in what you have to say; it's not you, but the ease of communication at issue.   I'll try pasting it to a speech to text reader.


----------



## Judycat (Mar 29, 2022)

You are entitled to your opinion. Too bad it upset the aunt. In a case like this I try not to make any hasty decisions while miffed. Aunt shouldn't have told you to F off, but what can you do, punching her in the mouth would have made you look bad. You don't want to miss family functions just because you don't like one member. I don't like most of my two son's in-laws but I go anyway to see my sons and the grand kids. Wish the in-laws didn't exist sometimes, but not my call.


----------



## Pepper (Mar 29, 2022)

Sorry, IMO, you made a big error and in my experience families can fight like maniacs & still be families.

I believe your words were taken to mean that ****** advances to a young girl is all her fault because she's not dressed in a burkah (lol) and they were saying a boy must be taught self-control--tell that to Will Smith, btw--and not to give into their impulses.  If they were suggesting a boy could be talked out of having impulses, boy are they wrong, but learning to control their impulses and why is a good thing to teach any boy.

As for the fighting, I grew up with that form of communication.  We're estranged now, not surprisingly, so I'm used to that stuff.

As the only living grandpa, you should be at most functions.  It's for the kids, get over yourself and learn you can't please these folks and just shut up!

Please take the grammatical advice offered by @caroln.  Thanks in advance for that and welcome.


----------



## Talon1952 (Mar 29, 2022)

caroln said:


> I tried reading your post and couldn't finish unfortunately.  PLEASE USE punctuation to separate sentences and divide up an extremely long post into paragraphs.  I know I'll probably get bashed for this post and be called a punctuation nazi or something, but honestly I can't read posts like that.


 Thanks for your input, I can clearly see this is not the place for me...Good luck to all bye.


----------



## John cycling (Mar 29, 2022)

I would have told her to not be so nasty, especially not in front of the children.
How the children are handled is up to their parents, which unfortunately is not always a good thing.
So I would keep that in mind, but also certainly speak your mind when warranted and don't let anyone talk to you in that manner.
Hey, don't leave.  Not everyone thinks the same way.   
.


----------



## caroln (Mar 29, 2022)

Oh dear, I think I offended him with my suggestions.  I didn't realize punctuation was such a touchy subject.  I _tried _to be nice.


----------



## Medusa (Mar 29, 2022)

What do you mean by removing the option of clothing style?  Are you talking about something like uniforms?  
Or is the above irrelevant and your question/comment is more about familial conflict and you're needing support?
If the above is the case, I feel for you and sympathize; it can be so extremely uncomfortable/painful when there is conflict in a family, especially when trying to get everyone together to have a good time.
If you want an opinion about the boy/girl/sex/clothes thing, I have one, but will keep it to myself if that is not your goal here.


----------



## Pepper (Mar 29, 2022)

Well, I wrote that tome for nothing!


----------



## Medusa (Mar 29, 2022)

_"You don't want to miss family functions just because you don't like one member."_

Good point; that would be a shame.


----------



## Medusa (Mar 29, 2022)

caroln said:


> Oh dear, I think I offended him with my suggestions.  I didn't realize punctuation was such a touchy subject.  I _tried _to be nice.


Oh, wow.  Well, that was... huh.  Okay, then.  
It's a shame though, as there are so many great people here who would listen and try to help. Case in point, you guys are here trying to help.  @Talon1952  I hope you come back and try again.  The people here are very nice and no one meant to offend you.


----------



## Pepper (Mar 29, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Sorry, IMO, you made a big error and in my experience *families can fight like maniacs & still be families.*


Did I just insult the maniac community?


----------



## Della (Mar 29, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Well, I wrote that tome for nothing!


We can discuss the topic more freely now!

One:  Talon said the aunt shouldn't have told him to F-off while the kids were there.  No she shouldn't have and as someone a generation younger she never should talk to Talon that way.

However.  Talon _never _should have brought up a 12 year-old girl's midriff in front of her and a group of people.  That is the most sensitive age in the world!  If he wanted to talk about it privately with the girl's mother.  Okay, I guess, but better not,  because we can probably take it for granted that the girl's mother has already decided to pick her battles about clothing and such and midriff exposure is not at the top of her list. Lip rings and tattoos might be a bigger worry.


----------



## RobinWren (Mar 29, 2022)

caroln said:


> I tried reading your post and couldn't finish unfortunately.  PLEASE USE punctuation to separate sentences and divide up an extremely long post into paragraphs.  I know I'll probably get bashed for this post and be called a punctuation nazi or something, but honestly I can't read posts like that.


Considering that this was a first post I might be offended by your reply, also no need for shouting. Yes we all have our opinions it was just not very kind. When I went to college I was told that I wrote differently from my class mates. The prof mentioned that the english used long and laborious sentences, so I changed the way I wrote to conform.


----------



## Medusa (Mar 29, 2022)

RobinWren said:


> Considering that this was a first post I might be offended by your reply, also no need for shouting. Yes we all have our opinions it was just not very kind. When I went to college I was told that I wrote differently from my class mates. The prof mentioned that the english used long and laborious sentences, so I changed the way I wrote to conform.


You're probably right; it might have put me off as well, as a response to my first post, but I can't help but empathize with @caroln .  It really is so very frustrating, trying to read a wall of text.


----------



## Pepper (Mar 29, 2022)

Oh well.
As @Della said "We can discuss the topic more freely now!"


----------



## Packerjohn (Mar 29, 2022)

caroln said:


> I tried reading your post and couldn't finish unfortunately.  PLEASE USE punctuation to separate sentences and divide up an extremely long post into paragraphs.  I know I'll probably get bashed for this post and be called a punctuation nazi or something, but honestly I can't read posts like that.


If it's any consolation, I too found the post rather hard to read.  Interesting but not easy to read.


----------



## Packerjohn (Mar 29, 2022)

The way the post is written makes it rather tough to follow and understand.  I believe it is about some young lass showing her mid-riffs or whatever you call it.  I might be an "over the hill" type of guy but the mid-riffs do not impress me.  A belly button is just a belly button.  I have one too and I never look at it.  Why should I give a "hoot" about some girl's belly button?  Furthermore, ditto for all the "ladies" out there showing their boobs with only the nipples covered up.  I believe this sex appeal stuff is driven by magazines, the media and Hollywood movies.  If you ask for my 5 cents, my preference for ladies/girls is someone with a lovely personality who can carry on an intelligent conversation and who has a kind heart.  I bet I'm in some sort of minority group when it comes to these "matters-of-the-heart."


----------



## Lewkat (Mar 29, 2022)

I think Talon is quite thin skinned. Perhaps he should have proof read what he wrote.  I have a bad habit of doing just what he did and I usually leave off letters at the end of words and the like.

Perhaps that's why I rarely create any threads.


----------



## Nathan (Mar 29, 2022)

@Talon1952, Welcome to the forum, I hope you reconsider and decide to stay.
I usually skip reading long posts(just my ADD,or is ADHD or) however the lack punctuation didn't offend me, and I did read and understand.  Apparently the aunt didn't believe a male was allowed to comment on a females attire, despite the fact that you are a blood relative with only the young lady's best interest at heart.  Stand your ground, please don't back away from family get togethers just because of some rude & crude aunt, who's not even a blood relative.


----------



## Pepper (Mar 29, 2022)

Nathan said:


> @Talon1952, Welcome to the forum, I hope you reconsider and decide to stay.
> I usually skip reading long posts(just my ADD,or is ADHD or) however the lack punctuation didn't offend me, and I did read and understand.  *Apparently the aunt didn't believe a male was allowed to comment on a females attire, despite the fact that you are a blood relative with only the young lady's best interest at heart.*  Stand your ground, please don't back away from family get togethers just because of some rude & crude aunt, who's not even a blood relative.


As @Della said:  "However. Talon _never _should have brought up a 12 year-old girl's midriff in front of her and a group of people. That is the most sensitive age in the world! If he wanted to talk about it privately with the girl's mother."

Girls that age are very self-conscious, so the conversation, like Della suggested, should be private without the girl within hearing distance.


----------



## Nathan (Mar 29, 2022)

Pepper said:


> the conversation should be private without the girl within hearing distance.


The conversation should have been held without the aunt present, for sure.


----------



## Pinky (Mar 29, 2022)

I recall being extremely self-conscious of my body at that age. What she wears seems to be a topic between herself and her parents.


----------



## Pepper (Mar 29, 2022)

I offer my opinion re: my grandson, but cautiously.  I'm sure I won't stop because, like my mother said "Little children, little problems, bigger children bigger problems."


----------



## RadishRose (Mar 29, 2022)

Nathan said:


> The conversation should have been held without the aunt present, for sure.


The conversation should never have been held at all, imo.


----------



## caroln (Mar 29, 2022)

RobinWren said:


> Considering that this was a first post I might be offended by your reply, also no need for shouting. Yes we all have our opinions it was just not very kind.


I don't see any reason for anyone to be offended.  What I mentioned is stated in the forum rules:

1. Always use a *descriptive and complete title* when starting a new thread, a long title is preferred. The thread title should clearly tell what a thread is about.

2. Please don't use all-capital words in thread titles.

3. If you write a long post, please separate it into several paragraphs for easier reading.

4. Write a summary or quote one or two paragraphs when using external links.

I don't believe I was shouting by making the word "please" in bold.  It was just for emphasis. (The word "use" was in bold by accident.)  I didn't think I was being unkind.  Sorry if you see it that way.


----------



## JonSR77 (Mar 29, 2022)

As a guy, I can say this...don't let your daughters or granddaughters dress provocatively.


And those arguments about it being "freedom of choice" --- they are all nonsense.

It is not that kids shouldn't be allowed to be kids and biology should be allowed to take its normal course.

What is going to happen is that the girl is going to be seen as a target by the WORST of the boys. Instead of finding some young boy that she likes and falls for....she is just going to attract some young jerk, only interested in physical attraction.

It would be nice if young girls could just wear what they want, without attracting attention from the worst little demons.  But that is exactly what will happen.


----------



## Jeni (Mar 29, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> As a guy, I can say this...don't let your daughters or granddaughters dress provocatively.
> 
> 
> And those arguments about it being "freedom of choice" --- they are all nonsense.
> ...


well said IMO .... like it or not this does happen.
I frankly do not see why some get so offended when this is pointed out.....


----------



## JonSR77 (Mar 29, 2022)

Jeni said:


> well said IMO .... like it or not this does happen.
> I frankly do not see why some get so offended when this is pointed out.....



If women really knew exactly how sick and disgusting men's thoughts are....they would exercise all caution.


and I am not entirely joking.

Testosterone is really a kind of "crazy juice."


----------



## Della (Mar 29, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> Testosterone is really a kind of "crazy juice."


Heh.  When I was junior& high school age we girls were mostly wearing pleated wool skirts and stiff buttoned up shirts made of thick oxford cloth.

One day one of the girls, who I'll describe as "very attractive for her age," wore a blouse with a low neckline that revealed about a half-inch of cleavage. I thought the boys had been possessed by demons.  They kept turning around in their seats to stare at her and even reprimands from the teacher couldn't contain them.  

I'll never forget it, it was a little bit scary.


----------



## Medusa (Mar 29, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> As a guy, I can say this...don't let your daughters or granddaughters dress provocatively.
> 
> 
> And those arguments about it being "freedom of choice" --- they are all nonsense.
> ...


And you're saying the _answer _here is to cover up the girl rather than educate the boy to control himself?  By extension, that girls should be (and are) taught how to protect themselves from boys, but we shouldn't bother teaching our boys not to attack girls because, what, they are such mindless, unevolved animals they have no control over their actions if they see a certain amount of skin exposed.  Really?  Am I getting that right?

Because, if I'm wrong and I misunderstood you (which I feverently hope I am and I did) would mind you clarifying for me, please?


----------



## RobinWren (Mar 29, 2022)

caroln said:


> I don't see any reason for anyone to be offended.  What I mentioned is stated in the forum rules:
> 
> 1. Always use a *descriptive and complete title* when starting a new thread, a long title is preferred. The thread title should clearly tell what a thread is about.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this, it was just my perception. We might interpret differently but that is what makes us unique.


----------



## Gary O' (Mar 29, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> I gleaned from others posts, he brought up before others, about the way the 12 year old dressed with regard to her midriff. This was disgraceful.


*Wut?!!*

What's an ol' man's concern with a little girl's clothing?

Jus' plain weird


----------



## JonSR77 (Mar 30, 2022)

Medusa said:


> And you're saying the _answer _here is to cover up the girl rather than educate the boy to control himself?  By extension, that girls should be (and are) taught how to protect themselves from boys, but we shouldn't bother teaching our boys not to attack girls because, what, they are such mindless, unevolved animals they have no control over their actions if they see a certain amount of skin exposed.  Really?  Am I getting that right?
> 
> Because, if I'm wrong and I misunderstood you (which I feverently hope I am and I did) would mind you clarifying for me, please?



My two cousins both worked at Hooter's.

They both picked up a stalker.

This is not about freedom issues, it is about pragmatic security issues.


Forget about regular boys. What about the little sociopaths who are going to become sex offenders?

Who gets targeted?

The one who stands out gets targeted.


It is as simple as that.


If you want the freedom to jog alone in the woods, you can.  But if you jog in a crowded park, with a partner, in daylight...your risk of getting attacked is going to be hundreds of times lower.

Is it fair? NO.

Is it reality? Unfortunately, yes, I think so.

Have you read about the sex games that are going around these days? About the kinds of things even junior high school kids have been doing? Unbelievable things. Counting ****** conquests at age 13!

My doctor's daughter's friend was raped (date rape situation) at age 14 or so.

Did you know, that in many high schools, across America, it is a kind of tradition, that one of the cheerleaders has to sleep with the guy on the football team who scores a touchdown that week...

So, some 16 year old girl, HAS to sleep with some guy that she barely knows, because it is some kind of nutty tradition?

Yes, it is that crazy out there.








Sordid ****** tradition alleged at elite prep school​

"Labrie also told the detective of a contest where boys compete to "score" with the most girls, keeping a running tally written in indelible marker on a wall behind washing machines. The school kept painting over the scoreboard so it eventually was moved online. He acknowledged to the detective he was "trying to be number one," the detective wrote."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/st-pauls-school-rape-case-reveals-sordid-******-tradition/


----------



## Chris P Bacon (Mar 30, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> My two cousins both worked at Hooter's.
> 
> They both picked up a stalker.
> 
> ...


Why must you villianize boys and men at large due to the actions of a few?
Have you ever heard of or read about a woman named Mary Kay Letourneau?
Predators come in both sexes and ages. Counting conquests at age 13, dating
at 14 and believing that sex is a must at age 16, you live in a different world
than me. Were either of the two cousins you mentioned cheerleaders at school?

And if you give credibility to the number of ****** conquests that 13 year old boys
claim, let me share something about that with you, boys lie about those. They lie
about their conquests even when they’ve grown out of boyhood. And for the boy
who wanted to be Number One, he’s got a long way to go to catch up with me.
I may or may not be number one. I stopped or lost count of my conquests long ago.
But I don’t think that my score won’t increase in the days and weeks to come.


----------



## Medusa (Mar 30, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> My two cousins both worked at Hooter's.
> 
> They both picked up a stalker.
> 
> ...


Hi, @JonSR77 

I appreciate your response (especially as I felt, after-the-fact) that my approach was a bit aggressive and could have been better worded so as to elicit productive conversation. I meant to focus more on the larger issue than your words, in particular. All of which lends credit to your very civil and thought-out reply.

I understand what you're saying in your post (watched the news clip), and agree with you in that the things you've mentioned are problems amongst our youth that desperately need addressing. However, sans, Hooters (and women {and men} get stalked far too often, and regardless of their state of dress) there is no mention of the issue I posed.

What I'm concerned about here is that directing the issue of ****** violence against girls/women at what they are wearing is flat-out victim blaming at its most pure.  And, in truth, what the girl was wearing at the time of attack is almost never the reason for rape.  Rape is about power, control, and not clothes.  

And this is so very important here:

_"Blaming women for the violence they encounter reiterates the idea that a woman’s clothing directly dictates how she deserves to be treated. Not only is this deeply insulting, it is profoundly untrue."_

https://meridian-magazine.com/what-...e violence,insulting, it is profoundly untrue.

The above quote is from a mag. and I usually don't quote "soft" sources, but it says plainly what is so important about this issue.  

There are tons of sites, of course, but I won't bombard you with a bunch of tedious links (I hate that) because I'm sure you get the point.

Also, and I think this is just as important as the above, it is insulting and a disservice to our young men to assume (and lend the idea to them) that they have no self-control and can't be responsible for their actions.  

It is important to teach our girls how to protect themselves and just as (if not more so) important to teach our boys to control themselves.

And to stop blaming victims of assault for _any_ reason, let alone what top they are wearing.

Thank you for the reply and the discussion.


----------



## Chris P Bacon (Mar 30, 2022)

A blind man (or boy, for that matter) likely wouldn't have sex with a woman against her will based solely upon what she was wearing. Males are not the only predators in the world.


----------



## Medusa (Mar 30, 2022)

Chris P Bacon said:


> A blind man (or boy, for that matter) likely wouldn't have sex with a woman against her will based solely upon what she was wearing. Males are not the only predators in the world.


I hear what you're saying; there are female ****** aggressors and that shouldn't be ignored, but the fact is that most of them _are _men.

Which is why it is important to teach them, as boys, to control themselves and not perpetuate the idea that they can't.  What does that tell them about themselves? It's insulting, demeaning and ultimately sometimes, tragic.


----------



## Judycat (Mar 30, 2022)

You're going to think I'm awful, but when my oldest teen son would go out the door at night, I'd yell. "Don't forget to wear a condom!" This would stop him in his tracks. I was hoping for the ick factor in him knowing I knew what was going on in his testosterone addled brain.

If he was hanging out with a girl around town I'd make sure to walk the dog nearby and wag my finger at him. I found this to be amusing, I'm sure neither he nor the the girl did though.

I threw a guy out of the house once, because I came home and found him lying with my daughter on our couch. Something about the smile he gave me. Bastard, learn some respect. Idiot.


----------



## Della (Mar 30, 2022)

I tried to teach my son to always be respectful to girls, never ogle them or make ****** remarks, to wait until a relationship is meaningful to even think about having sex, to use a condom even if she's on some sort of birth control, above all be sure it's consensual.

I would like to think that mothers of girls take a tiny bit of responsibility for their side of it.  Teach their daughters not to dress like they're desperately trying to turn-on any male in sight.  Tell them not to tease just for the fun of it. If they're going to be sexually active, get them on a good reliable type of  birth control, don't tell them to make the boy handle birth control, whether it seems "fair" or not. Boys only have one, not so great option and it has to be used in the heat of the moment, possibly when high or drunk.

I don't think teaching women safe practices is the same thing as victim blaming. We're warned not to leave our keys in our car and no one says that by doing that, we're excusing the thief if he steals the car or blaming the person whose car is stolen.  Nothing a woman does or wears, excuses a rapist, but wouldn't it be better if she wasn't raped at all?


----------



## Remy (Mar 30, 2022)

Is it me or is the forum getting weird. I feel like I have to become for defensive, snarky and even mean at this point and I really do try to be supportive usually. Most here are nice but I've noticed a change not for the better lately.


----------



## RadishRose (Mar 30, 2022)

Remy said:


> Is it me or is the forum getting weird. I feel like I have to become for defensive, snarky and even mean at this point and I really do try to be supportive usually. Most here are nice but I've noticed a change not for the better lately.


Don't worry @Remy, most everyone here is nice. Moods fluctuate sometimes, especially with this kind of topic. I just pay no attention to those who just like to argue.


----------

