# Spying in Australia?



## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

Ridiculous, why would anyone bother with a little country like Australia, so innocent of many foreign ideas and notions.
Found this article to-day in the Melbourne (Australia) "Age":

http://www.news.com.au/technology/o...ecure-data-against-us-govt-surveillance-say-a

Surely this must be a blatant exaggeration, don't you think?


----------



## Falcon (Mar 18, 2015)

Wouldn't open for me Susie.  Sorry.


----------



## AZ Jim (Mar 18, 2015)

Link doesn't work Susie....


----------



## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

Very sorry, the "Age" has removed the article.
This article had to do with 'seemingly' massive surveillance, touching every phase of Australian lives.
(See current article in the "Spiegel" where the same is happening in Ge.


----------



## Debby (Mar 18, 2015)

They're all spying on each other, trying to get to the proverbial 'head of the line'!  My own government is trying to give our spy agency more NSA-like powers and without any oversight to control their potential bad acts so my question to you would be, 'why not Australia?'  This world is going mad with fear and suspicion!


----------



## Warrigal (Mar 18, 2015)

Is this the link?

http://www.news.com.au/technology/o...ty-international/story-fnjwmwrh-1227268564208


----------



## GDAD (Mar 18, 2015)

this may be what you are looking for *NEW ASIO POWERS*

http://www.news.com.au/technology/o...given-new-powers/story-fnjwmwrh-1227071116071


----------



## Ralphy1 (Mar 19, 2015)

Ahhh, yes, it is your turn now...nthego:


----------



## Warrigal (Mar 19, 2015)

The Government, with the support of the Opposition, has just passed a bill requiring communications carriers to store our metadata for two years and make it available to the government.

Already people are sending the Minister for Communications a CC of their every email and tweet to eliminate the middle man and to annoy him immensely.

Viva la rebellion.


----------



## QuickSilver (Mar 19, 2015)

I've said this before.  I don't quite know why, but I can't get my panties in a wad over this.  I really don't care who sees my emails or who has metadata on me.  Like I give a hoot if the government knows I called the Dog Groomer at 2:15 on March 2nd?   OR my husband's cell at 9am yesterday?   BUT I am happy the government may know that Achmed in the next town is talking to Mustacq in Iraq or Syria about the makings of an explosive device.  But that's just me.


----------



## Debby (Mar 19, 2015)

But what if your son, in a moment of weakness, writes an email to someone and something he says in it, triggers the beginning of suspicion in the authorities and you get a knock on your door and your son disappears and no one will tell you what they've done to him?  Would that be a concern to you?  Or what if you spoke online on a forum somewhere about things that you were dissatisfied with your government about, and that knock on the door came and you found yourself 'answering questions' but the answers don't satisfy the askers?


----------



## Ralphy1 (Mar 19, 2015)

Yep, and what if they come after me for seeking a Muslim wife from Syria?


----------



## QuickSilver (Mar 19, 2015)

Well Debbie... I should REALLY be on the list then because I always write about my dissatisfaction. I call DC and ream out Congressmen..  so far... no knocks..   I think you need to get rid of all the tinfoil in your kitchen.  lol!!


----------



## Debby (Mar 19, 2015)

Laugh all you want QS, but real experts (not regular folks like you and I) are concerned at the loss of constitutional rights of citizens.  I think that I'll concede to their concern rather than your acceptance of those losses and government propaganda.

Just this morning I was reading about a French comedian who was found guilty of telling a joke that was considered 'anti-Hebdo'.  Considering the debate we had here a while back on Canada's 'anti-hate speech' laws and the support for 'supposed' freedom of speech that was touted long and hard here, I can only say that hypocrisy is alive and well in the West and this willingness to give up more of your rights only goes to support more of the same!  

For example, the BBC did a piece on being spied on via new 'Smart TV's' and apparently Samsung sent out a message to consumers 'to be careful discussing personal information in front of their televisions'.   How long do you think it will be before an information hungry government is demanding that information from those companies?  http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31296188

Your founding fathers enshrined your Constitution with the right to bear arms as a protection against 'a government run amok' and here you are, saying  "fine, take my information, listen to my conversations, tape my calls.....I know my government will protect me".  History is rife with stories of governments who lied and didn't take care of their citizens.  Actually, I'm amazed that the NRA isn't 'all up in arms' about their online/phone info being mined by the government.  

But maybe this story about Obama banning the sale of ammo for America's most popular gun says something about how the government (who will protect you) is beginning an assault on those gun rights too. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2560750  Can't ban the guns, but without ammunition, they are no more than fancy clubs!




You might think you're going to be dead in a few years so you don't have to worry, but this is the world that we are leaving to our grandchildren and future generations.  How many more issues will our generation and the current one, screw them on?


----------



## QuickSilver (Mar 19, 2015)

Oh Puleeeze..    I'd much rather they catch the bad guys or potential bad guys even if it means they know when my Shih-Tzu is going for his haircut..  With the advent of the digital age, we all can expect some of our "rights" to be lost..   It has it's pros and cons..  And I will always believe it's much better to foil a terror attack than worry about figuring out who did it and finding pieces of the victims to return to relatives.


----------



## Jackie22 (Mar 19, 2015)

I feel the same QS, spying is there for a reason, a good reason.


----------



## Debby (Mar 19, 2015)

Well at the very least then to those of you who don't care, you're going to have to give up the label 'home of the free'.  That's becoming less true by the day.  Maybe you can switch to 'a little freer than some'.


----------



## QuickSilver (Mar 19, 2015)

Funny.....  I don't feel one bit "less free"...   BUT.. if having my metadata stored is 'less free"    I prefer that to "less safe"... anyday


----------



## drifter (Mar 19, 2015)

It's true America spies on other countries and their citizens. From three main facilities located here in the US, in Germany, and outside Alice Springs in Australia, we can spy on other countries and their citizens. Remember the flap made when someone announced the US was monitoring the personal phone calls of the German Chancellor? And a similar event in Brazil.  Sometime the president or the head of government is not aware what is going on in their own country. Privacy is gone; it no longer exists. Citizens no longer have a say in the matter. Our slogan might well be, "Home of the Safe." But that's okay with most of us.


----------



## Debby (Mar 19, 2015)

Seems kind of 'silly' doesn't it, in light of what you just said Drifter, when the USA gets all apoplectic about China spying or hacking?

You know, I'm almost positive that this link won't be looked at either, but I'm going to post it anyways.  Considering the willingness of the American population to leave Washington to play their games as they want and the lapping up of their propaganda and your mention Drifter, of America's spying on the world, I thought that the following is relevant because it speaks to the intentions of the government doing the surveillance on it's own citizens which by the way, is exactly what everyone is always accusing Russia of doing.  Pot meet kettle???


http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/03/14/cnn-beating-drums-war-paul-craig-roberts/

Dr. Roberts who is a renowned journalist with numerous credentials including being in the administration of Ronald Reagan, talks about how CNN specifically (and other media outlets by inference I would think) are working for the current administration in banging the drums of war and if we all go up in a mushroom cloud, we'll have ourselves to blame.  Control the media, spy on the citizenry, plant your military in key positions outside of your own borders, control and supplant other governments and bomb the crap out of anyone who looks at you funny.......and it's not Russia doing any of it!  But hey, they can look at my emails anytime (because 'they' aren't coming for me!)


----------



## drifter (Mar 19, 2015)

It's a game. We have to pretend. Never admit to anyone exactly how much we know or how much we are capable of doing. You're up and at 'em early. Had your coffee?


----------



## Debby (Mar 19, 2015)

I sure have had my coffee Drifter!  Get's me up and at 'em in right quick order.  In fact I've even had time to peruse several alternate news sites so far this morning, go through Huffington Posts 'WorldPost' section, and read up a bit on what my government has in store....it's amazing how much reading you can get done when you get a good night sleep isn't it?

And you're right, it is all a game.   Chess at the supreme master level and we are all the pawns.  

You know, we look back at the medieval days of Europe, kings fighting kings, kings marrying daughters of other kings to forge alliances, betrayals, murders in the palace and all that sort of thing and we pat ourselves on the back for having come so far, become so much more civilized.....but you know, in reality the only thing that has changed is that instead of jewels and laces and velvet, those 'kings' are now wearing business suits and Rolex's and travelling in jets instead of carriages. But there is the same lying and intrigue, murders and banishments, alliances and betrayals.  Like the Bible says, ' there is nothing new under the sun' and we're still the peasants who are going to be used, abused and then discarded when it suits the kings.

Having said that and believing what I do about our lives continuing on and on and on...I've come to look on my efforts at promulgating the facts as an exercise for my brain and to not let myself get all tied up in knots about what I perceive to be happening. Anyway with the level of disinterest and unawareness that is apparent all over the developed world and the way that we've allowed the system to be formed, I have serious doubts about whether or not this 'ocean liner' can be stopped/turned around.  Sometimes I guess, 'correction' only comes about as a result of severe catastrophe.  Then, occasionally, maybe....people wake up to the danger they have been sleeping through.  But if not, oh well, there's always the 'next time around' right?


----------



## drifter (Mar 19, 2015)

I wish I could speak with the assurance you do on that second part. Thanks for the conversation, friend.


----------



## AZ Jim (Mar 19, 2015)

OK Deb!  Come out from behind that silly mask and fight like a man...er...woman...er come out from behind the  mask so I can tell for sure. :what:GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


----------



## Debby (Mar 19, 2015)

I wish I could but seriously, menopause has been really a game changer for me Jim and having typical dry, delicate 'old lady' skin, shaving regularly just got to be a bit of a pain.  So lucky my husband loves me for the real me and doesn't focus on the exterior!  What a darling man!  But watch the growling because someone may call the cops on you...rabid old fellow and all that sort of thing you know.


----------



## Warrigal (Mar 19, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> I feel the same QS, spying is there for a reason, a good reason.



And sometimes, as in the case of mass surveillance, it is there so that the authorities can be seen to be doing something about a problem like terrorism. In reality, the authorities can spy on whoever they are interested in but they do need to get a warrant first. 

How big a computer do you think is necessary to trawl through all the metadata looking for suspicious activity? How easy do you think it would be for the would be terrorists, the really serious ones, to simply sidestep the surveillance? 

What a waste of money! But hey... the Australian government is in trouble and needs to look tough on terrorism. The opposition doesn't want to appear weak so they go along with the nonsense.

The real concern over here is that the metadata will be used to identify journalists' sources, especially when those sources are leaking information about the behaviour of the government. It could be used to identify whistle blowers. Goodbye to investigative journalism.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 19, 2015)

Unfortunately we're living in a time when the trend is for governments to justify the use of surveillance, not only of its "enemies" but of its own populations. 

You aren't going to reverse that trend by complaining about it - that would only get you put on "the list".

The best way to fight surveillance is to deny them any information. Some believe that allowing access to that info is fine - okay, go ahead and give it to them. Others will take the appropriate steps to reduce their profiles.

It's always the nail that sticks up that gets hammered down. 

Oh, and Warri ...



> In reality, the authorities can spy on whoever they are interested in but they do need to get a warrant first.



Over here we have a fairly new law that allows for warrentless entry and arrest - it isn't much advertised, but it IS used.


----------



## Susie (Mar 20, 2015)

What an amazing thread this has turned out to be!
Found the following in the "Guardian" under 'Surveillance'.
It analyses Australia's new data retention laws and highlights other surveillance issues:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/surveillance


----------



## Ralphy1 (Mar 20, 2015)

Hmmm, this is why I keep a low profile here...


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 20, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Hmmm, this is why I keep a low profile here...



Move about 2' to your right, please - the video is working fine, but the microphone isn't picking up your voice. :anonymous:


----------



## Ralphy1 (Mar 20, 2015)

And I also wear my Nixon mask most of the time...


----------



## QuickSilver (Mar 20, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> And I also wear my Nixon mask most of the time...



What!?   No Reagan?!  :why::king:


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 20, 2015)

Ahh ... there we go!


----------



## Ralphy1 (Mar 20, 2015)

Yes, and I am not a crook!


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 20, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Yes, and I am not a crook!



Hmmm ... I had you on tape saying that, and now there's a gap ...


----------



## Ralphy1 (Mar 20, 2015)

Can't help mistakes that my secretary made...


----------

