# Understanding the unvaxxed in a nutshell.



## chic (Nov 3, 2021)

If you're vaccinated, you're protected. So why doesn't your vaccine work unless I'm vaccinated?

If YOUR vaccine works why do I have to be vaccinated? If your vaccine doesn't work, why are you forcing vaccination on me or anyone else in the world? Why all the vaccine mandates?


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## Murrmurr (Nov 3, 2021)

chic said:


> If you're vaccinated, you're protected. So why doesn't your vaccine work unless I'm vaccinated?
> 
> If YOUR vaccine works why do I have to be vaccinated? If your vaccine doesn't work, why are you forcing vaccination on me or anyone else in the world? Why all the vaccine mandates?


You know you're inviting trouble, right? 

Chic, I want you to know that I think you are a lovely, sweet, elegant lady, and I enjoy reading your posts very much. _All_ of them.


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## Shero (Nov 3, 2021)

The pandemic has been in full force for nearly two years now and if you do not understand by now how it works in relation to the vaxxed and unvaxxed Chic, then you never will


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 3, 2021)

Well, let me say this again or maybe you have me on ignore.  The vaccines were never meant to prevent anyone from getting Covid.  So, yes, vaccinated or not, everyone can still get Covid.  This is the basics of it.

If you vaccinated, you have a greater chance of:

1.  Not getting Covid
2.  Not getting very sick and requiring hospitalization
3.  Not dying

Then Delta Covid came along and all bets were off. 

Delta works differently than the original Covid Variations-much more contagious.  But still, there are a lot of breakthrough infections, with DELTA, especially if you are obese and have other medical problems.  The vaccinated have a better chance of survival.

Which is why my son Joey, is still alive.  He caught Delta Covid, he was sick enough to be hospitalized despite being vaccinated; and he is still alive.  I know Joey is still alive, because he was vaccinated.   The COVID doctor, on the Covid ward, in my sons Covid filled room (as my son was maskless)-told me he was still alive because he was vaccinated.

I visited him the most while he was on the Covid ward and at his group home.  My older son was with him in the ER for over 4 hours.  My husband visited him a bit. We are all vaccinated.  We have all recently tested negative for Covid.  Because, we had masks on and we are all vaccinated.

If you can’t or won’t get vaccinated, at least wear a mask, or don’t.  Doesn’t matter to me in the least.


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## Alligatorob (Nov 3, 2021)

chic said:


> If you're vaccinated, you're protected. So why doesn't your vaccine work unless I'm vaccinated?


Of course it does.


chic said:


> If YOUR vaccine works why do I have to be vaccinated?


There is a consensus amongst doctors and scientists who work on this that vaccinated people spread less Covid than those who are not vaccinated.  Doesn't stop the spread, but it reduces it.  Not saying 100% agree, but most do. 


chic said:


> If your vaccine doesn't work, why are you forcing vaccination on me or anyone else in the world?


I am not!  

So far as I know we all still have freedom to choose, however there are a growing number of situations where if  you are not vaccinated you may have limits as to where  you can travel or work.  Not my doing and not saying I am supportive of all of it, but I do understand why.  I have done the simple thing and gotten vaccinated, so I have no such problems.


chic said:


> Why all the vaccine mandates?


Slowing the spread of Covid is behind it.  And as I said most doctors and scientists in the know believe this.


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## Sunny (Nov 3, 2021)

Chic, you seem to think that everybody is concerned only with whether THEY can still get Covid, even if they were vaccinated. Yes, for the umpteenth time, if you are vaccinated you can still get it, as an annoying but mild disease that will not kill you. But you are much less likely to get even that.

 By now, it should be obvious that this disease affects our whole world negatively. Even if you are super-vaccinated, and 100% immune to the disease yourself, your world has changed for the worse because of the disease.  Everybody's has. The economy has suffered greatly. Kids are barely getting an education, if at all. If your child is graduating from high school or college, they cannot have a normal in-person graduation in many places.  Weddings and bar/bat mitzvahs are Zoom occasions.  Elderly people are left alone, with no visitors. Social occasions such as proms have been cancelled, or are ghostly, masked events. Hospitals are brimming over with Covid patients taking up all the beds, so people with life-threatening cancer, heart, and kidney disease cannot be treated. Nursing homes and assisted living facilities have shut down. Medical personnel and first responders are exhausted.

Less important, but still pretty awful, thousands of stores, museums, and entertainment venues have closed. This affects us all, unless we normally live like hermits. The shipment of many goods has come to a halt.

Meanwhile, in other parts of the world, bodies are still piling up. People are desperate to get this "poisonous" or "experimental"  vaccine (choose your scary adjective) that a shrinking but still significant number of people are refusing to get because of the influence of demagogues.

There is an enormous amount of mental depression, and general disgust with what this disease has done to our lives. And there is also a lot of disgust with those who are STILL doing their best to spread the fear of the vaccine via scaremongering.

Rules keep changing. We have to wear the hated masks, then we don't have to wear them everywhere any more, then maybe we do, yes and no, on and off. It is the anti-vaxxers who have done this to us.  We are ALL affected by the stubbornness of those who refuse the vaccine, in most cases for political reasons.

As for "forcing" vaccinations on anyone, this is a fictitious bogeyman invented to bolster a case that is getting weaker and weaker. No one is forcing anything.  If people would rather take their chances on dying or becoming gravely ill from a horrible disease, than get an amazingly safe and effective shot, or if they want to spend the rest of their life hiding in their home, no one is forcing the shot on them. You don't have armed goon squads breaking into your home carrying a vaccine that they can force on you. 

Throwing the "forcing" nonsense around on social media like this does nothing to help anyone. It's like standing in front of a fireman trying to get into a burning building, in order to stop him from rescuing anyone.

For those who have been backing the wrong horse on this issue, there is no disgrace in rethinking something and realizing that due to circumstances, you have changed your mind. One reason some people held off on the vaccine was that it was too new, and its safety was "unproven."  Well, it isn't that new any more. Clearly, it is at least partially effective against the disease, it is very effective against dying of it, and is incredibly safe, at least as much as any other shot against any other disease.

One final thought:  Chic, if you are so against getting the vaccine, and are also against life-saving precautions (which you like to call "mandates" because it sounds more Machiavellian), why are you impelled to keep preaching to the choir?  With just a few exceptions, as far as I can tell, most people on this forum have already been vaccinated. So who are you trying to convince? Us, or yourself?


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## Becky1951 (Nov 3, 2021)

"if you are vaccinated you can still get it, as an annoying but mild disease that will not kill you."  That's misinformation.



For the umpteenth time.
There have been plenty of fully vaccinated breakthrough deaths.


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## win231 (Nov 3, 2021)

Shero said:


> The pandemic has been in full force for nearly two years now and if you do not understand by now how it works in relation to the vaxxed and unvaxxed Chic, then you never will


Funny how you can't answer those simple questions, so instead, you insult someone for asking them.


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## Nathan (Nov 3, 2021)

chic said:


> If you're vaccinated, you're protected. So why doesn't your vaccine work unless I'm vaccinated?
> 
> If YOUR vaccine works why do I have to be vaccinated? If your vaccine doesn't work, why are you forcing vaccination on me or anyone else in the world? *Why all the vaccine mandates?*


Because the world has become dumber now with the internet and availability of erroneous medical views.   Everyone thinks they are now experts in complex fields of medicine such as immunology, since they've _googled-for answers_, or watched some Youtube video.

People don't seem inclined to do what's in their best interest,  especially if it might also benefit a stranger, which in  society nowadays would be giving up their 'self reliant' vision of America.


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## chic (Nov 3, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Chic, you seem to think that everybody is concerned only with whether THEY can still get Covid, even if they were vaccinated. Yes, for the umpteenth time, if you are vaccinated you can still get it, as an annoying but mild disease that will not kill you. But you are much less likely to get even that.
> 
> By now, it should be obvious that this disease affects our whole world negatively. Even if you are super-vaccinated, and 100% immune to the disease yourself, your world has changed for the worse because of the disease.  Everybody's has. The economy has suffered greatly. Kids are barely getting an education, if at all. If your child is graduating from high school or college, they cannot have a normal in-person graduation in many places.  Weddings and bar/bat mitzvahs are Zoom occasions.  Elderly people are left alone, with no visitors. Social occasions such as proms have been cancelled, or are ghostly, masked events. Hospitals are brimming over with Covid patients taking up all the beds, so people with life-threatening cancer, heart, and kidney disease cannot be treated. Nursing homes and assisted living facilities have shut down. Medical personnel and first responders are exhausted.
> 
> ...


But Sunny, I already had it as a mild flu so now I have natural antibodies but those don't count anymore and I believe they should if we are truly a free people with free choices. Why fire first responders, doctors and nurses when they could submit to weekly testing? Didn't that work well for over a year. Suddenly it doesn't? What's scientific about that?

My preaching annoys you but there are new people who join forums like these every day and they will see and will read. Perhaps they will agree.

"Even if you are a majority of one, the truth is still the truth." - Mahatma Ghandi and while this is still a free country I will say what I want.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 3, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "if you are vaccinated you can still get it, as an annoying but mild disease that will not kill you."  That's misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, if you are vaccinated it can be severe and you can die, but that’s for people who have other medical issues.  If you are fairly healthy, then it is mild.


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## GAlady (Nov 3, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Yes, if you are vaccinated it can be severe and you can die, but that’s for people who have other medical issues.  If you are fairly healthy, then it is mild.


And yes, thousands have died from taking the vaccine.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 3, 2021)

Shero said:


> The pandemic has been in full force for nearly two years now and if you do not understand by now how it works in relation to the vaxxed and unvaxxed Chic, then you never will


That's not an answer.

Chic asked valid questions. Can you answer them?


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 3, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> That's not an answer.
> 
> Chic asked valid questions. Can you answer them?


I thought I did, and provided personal experience, and answers via an actual Covid treatment doctor who was treating a Covid patient on a Covid ward in a major hospital in good old Utah-so answers straight from the horses mouth, , sooo what else is needed?  @Murrmurr


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## Murrmurr (Nov 3, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I thought I did, and provided personal experience, and answers via an actual Covid treatment doctor who was treating a Covid patient on a Covid ward in a major hospital in good old Utah-so answers straight from the horses mouth, , sooo what else is needed?  @Murrmurr


My comment was for Shero, of course.

My DIL caught C-19 early in 2019. She didn't need to be hospitalized, but there were a couple of days when she thought she should; she'd started wheezing and had a hard time breathing. But she'd been up cooking and doing laundry, so her doctor told her to get back to bed. She did and her breathing got better. A week later, she was doing ok, and after another week, she was able to go back to work.

She got vaccinated in early summer this year.

Then about 2 months ago, she got the Delta variant. She was flu-ish for about 5 days. Her employer asked her to stay home for 10 days, but she took 14 before going back to work, just to be safe.

But she's young (37) and, aside from having allergies, she's very healthy.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 3, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> My comment was for Shero, of course.
> 
> My DIL caught C-19 early in 2019. She didn't need to be hospitalized, but there were a couple of days when she thought she should; she'd started wheezing and had a hard time breathing. But she'd been up cooking and doing laundry, so her doctor told her to get back to bed. She did and her breathing got better. A week later, she was doing ok, and after another week, she was able to go back to work.
> 
> ...


Well, of course it was for Shero , but, you know, I speak for the masses


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## Shero (Nov 3, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> That's not an answer.
> 
> Chic asked valid questions. Can you answer them?


There is more than enough information supplied on this forum during the past year on this particuar question.  Information overload!!!  Chic has not been reading obviously and is asking a question that has been answered by many over and over again. I am not going to repeat. Pay attention to what is written before you comment!

What else have you got Murmurr????
.


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## Shero (Nov 3, 2021)

win231 said:


> Funny how you can't answer those simple questions, so instead, you insult someone for asking them.


Pay attention to all of the information posted on the covid threads. I see no point in* repeatin*g information that has been supplied time and time again just because silly people with limited intelligence refuse to read before posting merde!!!!!
.


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## Lewkat (Nov 3, 2021)

I certainly would not pose the question Chic asked for this forum to answer for obvious reasons.  Also, regardless of all the information forthcoming from the posters on this or any social forum, it is worthless on the face of it, since each and every case is relative to the poster.  Each one has a different experience or take on the subject at hand.  I would check with various Departments of Health and those who make the vaccines which I have done often for anything I want answered about vaccination or the virus itself.  

For those whose hackles may be raised, then don't delve into the thread.


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## chic (Nov 3, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "if you are vaccinated you can still get it, as an annoying but mild disease that will not kill you."  That's misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, there have been and the first batch occured in the state in which I reside which is the most heavily vaccinated state in the US. This is part of why I brought it up. I thought others ought to know this IS a fact and not misinformation.


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## chic (Nov 3, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> I certainly would not pose the question Chic asked for this forum to answer for obvious reasons.  Also, regardless of all the information forthcoming from the posters on this or any social forum, it is worthless on the face of it, since each and every case is relative to the poster.  Each one has a different experience or take on the subject at hand.  I would check with various Departments of Health and those who make the vaccines which I have done often for anything I want answered about vaccination or the virus itself.
> 
> For those whose hackles may be raised, then don't delve into the thread.


Did I raise your hackles @Lewkat. It sounds exciting.  That's what I'm here for to make people really think about all this, whatever their subjective opinion may be.


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## chic (Nov 3, 2021)

retiredtraveler said:


> Because none of the vaccines are 100%.  No drug company ever claimed they were 100%. And the variants appear to be making more 'breakthrough' cases. And there are millions of people like me with cancer who take the vaccine, and booster, but have compromised immune systems and the efficacy rate that companies claim is most likely far lower for others like myself. So, stupid, selfish, anti-vaxers have no sense of helping the big picture.


Are the variants real though? They showed up after a good chunk of the population had been fully vaccinated. Maybe the vaccine is harming the immune systems of fully vaccinated people? They do effect white blood cell reproduction. Without the ability to replenish your white blood cells naturally as an immune system is want to do, a vaccinated immune system becomes dependent on booster shots. Maybe it's not the vaccine losing it's potency as they tell you, but your own immune system which has been compromised by the vaccines and more by the boosters.


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## chic (Nov 3, 2021)

Shero said:


> Pay attention to all of the information posted on the covid threads. I see no point in* repeatin*g information that has been supplied time and time again just because silly people with limited intelligence refuse to read before posting merde!!!!!
> .


I object to swearing in any language. If you find me annoying just ignore me.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 3, 2021)

Shero said:


> The pandemic has been in full force for nearly two years now and if you do not understand by now how it works in relation to the vaxxed and unvaxxed Chic, then you never will


Exactly, just what I was thinking.  If she insists she doesn't understand that by now, it's because she refuses to or doesn't want to admit she does, simple as that.  She's a smart lady and can understand such a simple concept.


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## chic (Nov 3, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Because the world has become dumber now with the internet and availability of erroneous medical views.   Everyone thinks they are now experts in complex fields of medicine such as immunology, since they've _googled-for answers_, or watched some Youtube video.
> 
> People don't seem inclined to do what's in their best interest,  especially if it might also benefit a stranger, which in  society nowadays would be giving up their 'self reliant' vision of America.


@Nathan I always try to do what is in my best interest. And this morning I saved the life of a small bird which had injured itself by flying into a plate glass window. So don't tell me I don't care about life other than my own. I do.


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## Shero (Nov 3, 2021)

chic said:


> I object to swearing in any language. If you find me annoying just ignore me.


No I do not find you annoying, just incomplete in your answers. Say what you mean, that would be appreciated.

Funny you object to something I wrote to win, who constantly trolls me. What have you got to say about that????


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 3, 2021)

Shero said:


> There is more than enough information supplied on this forum during the past year on this particuar question.  Information overload!!!  Chic has not been reading obviously and is asking a question that has been answered by many over and over again. I am not going to repeat. Pay attention to what is written before you comment!
> 
> What else have you got Murmurr????
> .


She either has not been reading, or just insistent on pushing her false narrative.


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## Ruthanne (Nov 3, 2021)

Another "here we go again..." from me.....


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## Shero (Nov 3, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> She either has not been reading, or just insistent on pushing her false narrative.


Too busy pretending to be Violetta in La Traviata with all the dramatique pictures , I say


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