# I'm an ER Doctor and Have Bad News About COVID



## Robert59 (Sep 16, 2020)

After coronavirus cases surged over the summer, followed by a period of relief, many Americans believe that coronavirus infections are on a downward trend. However, according to leading ER physician Dr. Matt Lambert, things are about to get a whole lot worse. In fact, he predicts COVID-19 deaths to double over the next few months and into the new year—even if a vaccine becomes available to the public soon. 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/im-er-doctor-bad-news-191639133.html


----------



## Rosemarie (Sep 16, 2020)

That's hardly surprising when so many people are ignoring the advice.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 16, 2020)

Not sure how an ER doc gets defined by yahoo news as a "leading" ER physician.  Just saying.


----------



## Jules (Sep 16, 2020)

When discussing pandemics, they’ve warned us that a second wave is highly probable and usually worse than the first wave.


----------



## macgeek (Sep 16, 2020)

I would do more research, don't just believe what one website says. question everything is my new rule. especially if it comes from the government or news media.


----------



## debodun (Sep 16, 2020)

It galls me when everyone knows that are supposed to wear face covering over BOTH nose and mouth. Some only cover their mouths, some have theirs tucked under their chins. Some wear theirs like a yarmulke. Yet I see all this positions in public. Their hew and cry is that , yes they are wearing masks, but nobody had said HOW they have to wear them.

At my last hard sale, only about half the people were wearing protection. They usually give some lame excuse for it (I forgot it, I can't breathe, I left it in my other car).


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 16, 2020)

OH NO! It's a death sentence! We're all doomed! 

Please...

Believe NOTHING, question EVERYTHING.


----------



## win231 (Sep 16, 2020)

Maybe he's one of those "Gloom & Doom" doctors who enjoy seeing suffering & enjoy delivering bad news.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 16, 2020)

What worse it the article originated at Yahoo Lifestyle. Not exactly the information source to check with for all your COVID news, or for that matter any news. They are an entertainment source, not a news source. Somehow over the last 20 years the media has convinced many people that editorials and opinions are news. They are not, they are specifically editorials and opinions. This is what happens when you try and fill 24-hour news days with a 1 or 2 hour news cycle. Anything and everything to fill the void.


----------



## fmdog44 (Sep 16, 2020)

196,254 dead Americans at 1:16PM CST 09/16/20  6,607,955 cases


----------



## debodun (Sep 16, 2020)

So about 3% of cases have succumbed.


----------



## Don M. (Sep 16, 2020)

At our ages, we are trying to comply with the mask and distancing requirements.  A bit of "inconvenience" is a better option than risking catching this illness.  We will probably even be very cautious when we have the family Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners....and all the kids are in agreement.  

We expect to stay "masked" for many more months.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 16, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> 196,254 dead Americans at 1:16PM CST 09/16/20  6,607,955 cases


10,000 dead Americans without the inflated numbers. It's on the CDC's website, go take a look. They even have one row for COVID deaths called "Accidental and Intentional Poisonings and other" Really? So, someone died because they were poisoned, and in post mortem tested positive for COVID. Does anyone think that's legitimate? It accounts for over 5,000 deaths alone. 

How about pneumonia. This country loses 50,000 people each year from pneumonia, and we have a vaccine for that. Where is the outrage? Why don't we quarantine? And there is actually a list under pneumonia and influenza with many thousands of deaths listed as COVID. 

Again, no need to believe me. Go to the CDC's website and look. All of the information I just provided is there. The actual number of people who've died from COVID is 6% of the reported number. This entire thing is shameful. 

Did you know we lose over *2,000,000 *people worldwide, each year to tuberculosis? We have a vaccine for that too.


----------



## old medic (Sep 16, 2020)

Funny... one of our ER Docs believes COVID was here last year.... alot of respiratory issues of neg flu, unknown causes....
The fact its a bad bug is true.... but numbers are being played big time


----------



## Geezerette (Sep 16, 2020)

Well the physician advising our Gov has also been an ER doc, geriatric specialist, med school faculty and many other credits over a long career . Also I’ve seen him from the point of my being a lowly employee in the same institution he served, and have the greatest trust in him to do the best he can for us.
 This state has had some of the most & and longest lasting restrictions and the greedy busine$$ guys and “constitutional  scholars”hate it, but we are doing very well in working toward control. He and the Gov do say that they can provide the latest scientific info even tho new info may supplant original information, but it is up to the citizens to BEHAVE RESPONSIBLY TO AVOID CONTAGION.


----------



## charry (Sep 16, 2020)

What will be .....Will be , at the end of the day.......
Just take each day at a time........and abide by the rules.....
That’s all we can do !!


----------



## win231 (Sep 16, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> 10,000 dead Americans without the inflated numbers. It's on the CDC's website, go take a look. They even have one row for COVID deaths called "Accidental and Intentional Poisonings and other" Really? So, someone died because they were poisoned, and in post mortem tested positive for COVID. Does anyone think that's legitimate? It accounts for over 5,000 deaths alone.
> 
> How about pneumonia. This country loses 50,000 people each year from pneumonia, and we have a vaccine for that. Where is the outrage? Why don't we quarantine? And there is actually a list under pneumonia and influenza with many thousands of deaths listed as COVID.
> 
> ...


A nurse is suing the hospital she worked at because she refused to do what a doctor instructed her to do:
A young man was brought into the ER with a fatal head injury from a motorcycle accident.  He was kept on a ventilator so his organs could be donated if his family agreed to it.  The doctor told the nurse to indicate Covid-19 on the death certificate as the cause of death.  She refused & she was fired.  I hope she collects big time.
Makes one wonder how often that happens.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 16, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> 10,000 dead Americans without the inflated numbers. It's on the CDC's website, go take a look. They even have one row for COVID deaths called "Accidental and Intentional Poisonings and other" Really? So, someone died because they were poisoned, and in post mortem tested positive for COVID. Does anyone think that's legitimate? It accounts for over 5,000 deaths alone.
> 
> How about pneumonia. This country loses 50,000 people each year from pneumonia, and we have a vaccine for that. Where is the outrage? Why don't we quarantine? And there is actually a list under pneumonia and influenza with many thousands of deaths listed as COVID.
> 
> ...


No idea where you're getting your numbers.  According to the CDC's website just now there are over 195,000 Covid deaths in the US.  
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_totalcases

This would have to be a helluva international conspiracy to have gotten 213 countries including Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, Italy, India, Brazil, and Cuba on board.  Not to mention all those doctors and funeral homes.


----------



## Irwin (Sep 16, 2020)

> Dr. Lambert endorses the fundamentals promoted by Dr. Anthony Fauci, which includes the universal wearing of masks, avoiding large crowds, social distancing, staying outdoors instead of in. He also maintains that schools should go virtual if they have a positivity rate greater than 5%.



It's going to take a mandate for the masses to abide by the recommendations, and Biden stated that he'll do that after taking office.


----------



## Irwin (Sep 16, 2020)

win231 said:


> A nurse is suing the hospital she worked at because she refused to do what a doctor instructed her to do:
> A young man was brought into the ER with a fatal head injury from a motorcycle accident.  He was kept on a ventilator so his organs could be donated if his family agreed to it.  The doctor told the nurse to indicate Covid-19 on the death certificate as the cause of death.  She refused & she was fired.  I hope she collects big time.
> Makes one wonder how often that happens.



Seems like it wouldn't be safe to use organs from somebody who died of covid-19, and that would be in the medical records if what you say is true, so I'm skeptical. Do you have a link for that story?


----------



## 911 (Sep 16, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> 10,000 dead Americans without the inflated numbers. It's on the CDC's website, go take a look. They even have one row for COVID deaths called "Accidental and Intentional Poisonings and other" Really? So, someone died because they were poisoned, and in post mortem tested positive for COVID. Does anyone think that's legitimate? It accounts for over 5,000 deaths alone.
> 
> How about pneumonia. This country loses 50,000 people each year from pneumonia, and we have a vaccine for that. Where is the outrage? Why don't we quarantine? And there is actually a list under pneumonia and influenza with many thousands of deaths listed as COVID.
> 
> ...


I posted this under a thread last week. Dr. Redfield stated on TV that only 6% of the deaths were those with no other complications such as, high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, etc.


----------



## Irwin (Sep 16, 2020)

911 said:


> I posted this under a thread last week. Dr. Redfield stated on TV that only 6% of the deaths were those with no other complications such as, high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, etc.



Covid causes those "complications." Redfield isn't a credible source for science.


----------



## 911 (Sep 16, 2020)

I 


StarSong said:


> No idea where you're getting your numbers.  According to the CDC's website just now there are over 195,000 Covid deaths in the US.
> https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_totalcases
> 
> This would have to be a helluva international conspiracy to have gotten 213 countries including Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, Italy, India, Brazil, and Cuba on board.  Not to mention all those doctors and funeral homes.
> ...


I think someone is confused. What he is referring to is what Dr. Redfield stated last week or 2 weeks ago on TV that only 6% of the COVID deaths are those that had no other complications. So, 6% of 195,000 would mean that only 11,700 of those 195,000 deaths are strictly COVID deaths. If a patient had heart disease and died and his blood test showed that the patient had the antibodies or COVID, the death would be recorded as COVID. I’m not saying that I agree with this theory, but just what I believe is where the confusion is.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 16, 2020)

StarSong said:


> No idea where you're getting your numbers.  According to the CDC's website just now there are over 195,000 Covid deaths in the US.
> https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_totalcases
> 
> This would have to be a helluva international conspiracy to have gotten 213 countries including Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, Italy, India, Brazil, and Cuba on board.  Not to mention all those doctors and funeral homes.
> ...


Go to the pages that have the graphs. At the top of the comorbidities graph, it states that 6% of the reported numbers are from COVID only. I'll dig it up later this evening and post a link.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 16, 2020)

Irwin said:


> Covid causes those "complications." Redfield isn't a credible source for science.


If the person wasn't fighting COVID when they died, it's disingenuous. Many of these weren't discovered until post mortem.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 16, 2020)

Here you go. Link at the bottom of this post. Click, choose Comorbidities, click. Here's the paragraph at the top of the table:



> Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). *For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned.* For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, o*n average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death*. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups...(snip)



Scroll down and look at the rows. 77,000 from pneumonia and influenza. About normal for those two diseases. Cerebrovascular disease? That's a brain issue. How about the poisoning one, does that belong under COVID deaths? What about the 88,000 listed under all other causes and conditions? You can't add them up because with with 2.6 per death, many deaths are counted in as many as three categories.

This is where the numbers that the news reports are coming from. They are at the very least misleading.

My son is obese and was very worried because the news keeps reporting that obesity is a leading contributor to COVID deaths. Look at the table. A total of 6,000 people have died with COVID and obesity, but that's not accurate either because there was an average of 1.6 other things wrong with those that died in this category. In his age group, it's 320 people. That's it, 320, across the nation, since this started. In any other time it wouldn't have even warranted a 1 minute report.

Here are some questions for you to consider. Not meant to be argumentative, but food for thought. Think about them carefully.

If masks work so well, why do doctors and nurses only wear them for surgery? When was the last time (during normal times) you went to the doctor and any of the staff wore a mask? Did they wear them during the exam? Except for a few rare reasons, like a bad case of tuberculosis. Personally, I have never had that happen. These people live around colds and flu all the time. If masks were the answer, why don't they all either die, spend their entire lives sick, or simply wear the mask?

Are funeral homes, cemeteries, churches, etc. overflowing or overloaded in your area? If we have an added 200,000 deaths from COVID, the math works out to an average of 800 people, per state, per month from April through August, the vast majority of these in heavily populated areas. Why aren't there problems in the funeral industry? Why aren't there casket shortages? Wouldn't the local news be reporting this? The CDC also keeps track of deaths state by state, year to year. As far as I can tell, we are still within the typical range. So, where are all of these extra deaths?

As for cases and infections, isn't that what we want? We're testing more than ever, wouldn't we expect the cases to go up? The more people who are infected means we're closer to herd immunity, which is exactly what we need.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/...dbTrmKwH1NdaBx6PpZo2kxotNwkUXlnbZXCwSRP2OmqsI


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 16, 2020)

911 said:


> I
> 
> I think someone is confused. What he is referring to is what Dr. Redfield stated last week or 2 weeks ago on TV that only 6% of the COVID deaths are those that had no other complications. So, 6% of 195,000 would mean that only 11,700 of those 195,000 deaths are strictly COVID deaths. If a patient had heart disease and died and his blood test showed that the patient had the antibodies or COVID, the death would be recorded as COVID. I’m not saying that I agree with this theory, but just what I believe is where the confusion is.


Incorrect. Referring directly to the CDC. See my post above.


----------



## Sunny (Sep 16, 2020)

> If masks work so well, why do doctors and nurses only wear them for surgery? When was the last time (during normal times) you went to the doctor and any of the staff wore a mask? Did they wear them during the exam?



Of course they wear them during the exam, and every single other moment, I'mnotdeadyet!  Where did you ever get the idea that they don't wear them?

OK, I just went back and reread, and I saw that you did say, "in normal times."  Which is a relief; I'd hate to think of you going to a doctor right now who isn't wearing a mask.

But my answer to your question is, in normal times there isn't a deadly virus that is very contagious, killing off people by the hundreds of thousands. Usually, the worst thing you might catch from them, or give them, is a cold.  And I suspect that if there was another serious flu epidemic like there was a century ago, they would certainly all wear masks for that reason too.


----------



## win231 (Sep 16, 2020)

Irwin said:


> Seems like it wouldn't be safe to use organs from somebody who died of covid-19, and that would be in the medical records if what you say is true, so I'm skeptical. Do you have a link for that story?


That particular story was briefly on the news a couple of months ago, but I haven't seen anything about it lately - maybe due to privacy concerns, since it's in litigation.  But here is related info:
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/07/covid19-death-certificate-change-stirs-controversy

https://fee.org/articles/physicians...st-covid-19-on-death-certificates-here-s-why/


----------



## win231 (Sep 16, 2020)

Don M. said:


> At our ages, we are trying to comply with the mask and distancing requirements.  A bit of "inconvenience" is a better option than risking catching this illness.  We will probably even be very cautious when we have the family Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners....and all the kids are in agreement.
> 
> We expect to stay "masked" for many more months.


Make sure to keep those mask & distancing requirements while you're eating.
'Cuz the minute anyone at your table moves their mask, they're putting everyone's life in danger.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 17, 2020)

Sunny said:


> But my answer to your question is, in normal times there isn't a deadly virus that is very contagious, killing off people by the hundreds of thousands. Usually, the worst thing you might catch from them, or give them, is a cold.  And I suspect that if there was another serious flu epidemic like there was a century ago, they would certainly all wear masks for that reason too.


And there isn't one now. Obviously the vast majority of my post went right over your head. Read it again. We do NOT have hundreds of thousands of extra deaths. We have about the same number of deaths we've always had. Do you think that when COVID came along, all of a sudden people stopped having heart attacks? Did cancer stop because of COVID? Of course not. So, again, reread my post. If we have a "deadly virus" (we don't) killing off hundreds of thousands of people, we'd have hundreds of thousands off extra deaths. We do not.


----------



## Sunny (Sep 17, 2020)

So then, let's reintroduce the smallpox virus, which we have managed to wipe out. By your logic, INDY, that would mean millions of fewer deaths from cancer, heart attacks, etc.  All those people would already be dead from smallpox instead.

We could also try stepping up the incidence of bubonic plague, diphtheria, and a host of others, in order to reduce the number of people dying of old age!

There isn't a deadly virus out there? Really?  Tell that to the 941,000 people worldwide who have so far died of this disease, not to mention the 20.3 million who have had it, many of them hideously ill for weeks or months, with lasting health problems caused by Covid.  What planet are you living on? 

Your logic is grossly faulty, to put it mildly.


----------



## old medic (Sep 17, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> If we have a "deadly virus" (we don't) ....
> 
> We do, and that's the unfortunate truth... And It is easily transmitted
> 
> ...


----------



## StarSong (Sep 17, 2020)

@I'mnotdeadyet, I see where you're going with this.  I won't be riding along on the "the entire world is in on this conspiracy train" but thanks for the info on where to buy a ticket. 

If you click _Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19_ on that same site, you'll see the chart below. Note the huge bump in deaths this year.  
So yes, we in the US have had many, many additional deaths this year.


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm


----------



## JimBob1952 (Sep 17, 2020)

It's very strange to me that a disease could become so politicized.  

Obviously there is a pandemic.  Obviously it has killed close to a million people worldwide.  Obviously those most likely to die are elderly or have co-morbidities such as heart disease, obesity, or immune disorders.  

I don't believe in conspiracies.   The world isn't that well-organized.  I do believe in human ineptitude, which has been on display since this first broke out, first in the Chinese response, then in our response, then in various places around the globe.  

This will burn itself out, as all pandemics do.  A vaccine will help.  In the meantime masks, therapeutics and reasonable social distancing seem to be our best bets.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Sep 17, 2020)

StarSong said:


> @I'mnotdeadyet, I see where you're going with this.  I won't be riding along on the "the entire world is in on this conspiracy train" but thanks for the info on where to buy a ticket.
> 
> If you click _Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19_ on that same site, you'll see the chart below. Note the huge bump in deaths this year. View attachment 123005
> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm


StarSong, what was the bump in 2018?  Do you know?


----------



## StarSong (Sep 17, 2020)

JimBob1952 said:


> StarSong, what was the bump in 2018?  Do you know?


Yes.  It was a particularly bad flu season.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Sep 17, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Yes.  It was a particularly bad flu season.


  Interesting.  I don't even remember hearing about it.  I wonder what things will be like this time next year.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Sep 17, 2020)

win231 said:


> A nurse is suing the hospital she worked at because she refused to do what a doctor instructed her to do:
> A young man was brought into the ER with a fatal head injury from a motorcycle accident.  He was kept on a ventilator so his organs could be donated if his family agreed to it.  The doctor told the nurse to indicate Covid-19 on the death certificate as the cause of death.  She refused & she was fired.  I hope she collects big time.
> Makes one wonder how often that happens.


Kudos to the nurse!

I hope the doctor is fired and his right to ever practice medicine again, terminated.

Make an example of liars in the medical field.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 17, 2020)

JimBob1952 said:


> *I don't believe in conspiracies.   The world isn't that well-organized.*


About 30 years ago I was privileged to go to JPL on a field trip with one of my sons (his classmate's father worked there).  I saw their Mission Control room.  Hundreds of people were directly involved just at that one facility.  There were at least a dozen, probably more, tracking and support facilities around the world.  The people working the moon shots were extraordinarily well educated, highly talented engineers and scientists whose entire careers were dedicated to the space program. 

Anyone who believed that the moon walk was done on a Hollywood sound stage doesn't understand human nature. The depth and breadth of the conspiracy across thousands of people and many nations would have been impossible to pull off. (Note also that no dying engineers, astronauts, or camera operators have made deathbed confessions stating it was all a fraud.)

A gargantuan Covid-19 conspiracy would be even harder to manage - 213 nations and territories across the entire political spectrum all volunteering to damage their economies for a non-event? To what end?


----------



## StarSong (Sep 17, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> *Kudos to the nurse!*
> 
> I hope the doctor is fired and his right to ever practice medicine again, terminated.
> 
> Make an example of liars in the medical field.


I have yet to see a link (credible or otherwise ) to this story. Failing that, I find it hard to believe.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 17, 2020)

Sunny said:


> So then, let's reintroduce the smallpox virus, which we have managed to wipe out. By your logic, INDY, that would mean millions of fewer deaths from cancer, heart attacks, etc.  All those people would already be dead from smallpox instead.
> 
> We could also try stepping up the incidence of bubonic plague, diphtheria, and a host of others, in order to reduce the number of people dying of old age!
> 
> ...


I have no idea how you've come to any of your conclusions. How does reintroducing an old malady even work into this? 

The only reason you believe 941,000 people worldwide have die from this is that you've been told to, over and over and over. Did you bother to look at the links I posted? 

So what if 20 million had it? Millions of people get sick every year.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 17, 2020)

StarSong said:


> A gargantuan Covid-19 conspiracy would be even harder to manage - 213 nations and territories across the entire political spectrum all volunteering to damage their economies for a non-event? To what end?


It's not a conspiracy, nor is it fake. I don't know anyone who believes it is. The point I am trying to make is that the reaction and the hype by the media is way overblown and causing unnecessary fear and concern where it isn't warranted.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 17, 2020)

StarSong said:


> @I'mnotdeadyet, I see where you're going with this.  I won't be riding along on the "the entire world is in on this conspiracy train" but thanks for the info on where to buy a ticket.
> 
> If you click _Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19_ on that same site, you'll see the chart below. Note the huge bump in deaths this year.
> So yes, we in the US have had many, many additional deaths this year.
> ...


That chart is specifically related to the information from the CDC, which has been demonstrated does not represent actual deaths from COVID. It represents every single person who has died and had a positive COVID test, whether they were actually experiencing COVID symptoms or not. Again, there were an average of 2.6 comorbidities for every death. That includes some extraordinary titles, such as poisonings. Who in their right mind would think the number form poisonings belongs on a list of COVD deaths? No one. The problem is this is how the CDC reports things and has for years, and the media is taking full advantage.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 17, 2020)

Curious coincidence about all those extra deaths this year, doncha think?


----------



## Damaged Goods (Sep 17, 2020)

I don't think any one person or institution has a grasp on this thing yet.  Fauci is the poster child for contradictions and now the CDC chief says that masks are better than any vaccine.  We're all still learning about this strange virus I guess.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 17, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Curious coincidence about all those extra deaths this year, doncha think?


More curious yet they're unaccounted for. Where is the news on the Flu? You just showed on the chart there was a flu epidemic in '18 that exceeded normal deaths by the thousands yet many don't seem to recall it, probably because they didn't report it endlessly, 24/7.


----------



## win231 (Sep 17, 2020)

StarSong said:


> @I'mnotdeadyet, I see where you're going with this.  I won't be riding along on the "the entire world is in on this conspiracy train" but thanks for the info on where to buy a ticket.
> 
> If you click _Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19_ on that same site, you'll see the chart below. Note the huge bump in deaths this year.
> So yes, we in the US have had many, many additional deaths this year.
> ...


*Yeah........Charts & Graphs.*
A few years ago, Dept. of Water & Power started sending me outrageous electricity bills - over $600.00.  My usual electric is around $110.00.  The news reported other people getting outrageous electricity bills.
I phoned DWP & the representative told me to look at the graph that shows my usage.
I said, "You really think I'm stupid? * YOU make that graph. * You can draw the lines as long as you want to justify your charges."
I asked, "When was my meter read?"  She said "The date of your meter reading is on your bill."
I then revealed something interesting:  My meter CAN'T be read; it's behind a locked gate & it's pointed in the opposite direction of the driveway.
I asked for a supervisor who had me read the meter while I was on the phone with her.  After I gave her the numbers, she said, "Those numbers are very different than the numbers our meter reader turned in."
I said, "Yeah....he just makes them up - in your favor.  He lies & your employees swear to it."

I wrote to the Mayor & they made DWP install a digital meter that can be read from their office.
Part of my letter:  "You make a big deal of busting drug dealers, thieves & scam artists, while you allow the biggest criminal enterprise - Dept. of Water & Power - to commit fraud & rip off thousands of people."
Every electric section of my bill since then is around $110.00.  And those long lines on their graph are (mysteriously) much shorter, now.
Looks like they've had enough of me.


----------



## rgp (Sep 17, 2020)

macgeek said:


> I would do more research, don't just believe what one website says. question everything is my new rule. especially if it comes from the government or news media.




  Good advise to live by.


----------



## macgeek (Sep 17, 2020)

I saw news yesterday, someone from WHO said "normal" may not return until 2022....

*where I live, people are jumping off a bridge to kill themselves*.... one guy was on a bridge 20 hours before they talked him down.. week before a husband and wife jumped, one survived the other did not.

funny you don't hear the media telling these sort of stories about millions of people suffering that don't even have the virus... lost jobs, lost businesses, lost their homes or place to live, lost hope so they take their own lives. The mental damage this virus is causing on young people and seniors is more of a problem/threat than the physical disease itself...

I think it's a bad idea to keep everything shut down... it's doing more harm than good... if masks protect us (like we are told), it's time to open everything back up and have people wear their mask and keep 6 feet apart.


----------



## rgp (Sep 17, 2020)

win231 said:


> A nurse is suing the hospital she worked at because she refused to do what a doctor instructed her to do:
> A young man was brought into the ER with a fatal head injury from a motorcycle accident.  He was kept on a ventilator so his organs could be donated if his family agreed to it.  The doctor told the nurse to indicate Covid-19 on the death certificate as the cause of death.  She refused & she was fired.  I hope she collects big time.
> Makes one wonder how often that happens.




 Same thing told to me by my neighbor/nurse....accident victim listed as a covid death...Somehow this brings money to the hospital.


----------



## rgp (Sep 17, 2020)

macgeek said:


> I saw news yesterday, someone from WHO said "normal" may not return until 2022....
> 
> *where I live, people are jumping off a bridge to kill themselves*.... one guy was on a bridge 20 hours before they talked him down.. week before a husband and wife jumped, one survived the other did not.
> 
> ...




 "*where I live, people are jumping off a bridge to kill themselves*."


 Wow, where did this happen ?

 BTW, I agree with you on the rest.......


----------



## macgeek (Sep 17, 2020)

@rgp 

hard to find a good article on it. seems the news here barely mentions it.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/08...y-bridge-due-to-police-activity-heavy-delays/


----------



## StarSong (Sep 17, 2020)

macgeek said:


> funny you don't hear the media telling these sort of stories about millions of people suffering that don't even have the virus... lost jobs, lost businesses, lost their homes or place to live, lost hope so they take their own lives. The mental damage this virus is causing on young people and seniors is more of a problem/threat than the physical disease itself...


I've heard and read numerous stories of the devastating financial, emotional and physical toll this virus has taken on many.  It's hitting people in the bottom 50% of the financial spectrum particularly hard.


----------



## rgp (Sep 17, 2020)

macgeek said:


> @rgp
> 
> hard to find a good article on it. seems the news here barely mentions it.
> 
> https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/08...y-bridge-due-to-police-activity-heavy-delays/




 Yeah , doesn't even mention the jumpers.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Sep 17, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> Here you go. Link at the bottom of this post. Click, choose Comorbidities, click. Here's the paragraph at the top of the table:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you talking about?

These virus deaths are additional deaths -to the normal flu and other seasonal stuff.  And, YES, all the doctors and nurses and health people at the medical places in my area where both masks and face shields.  I SEE them wearing PPE all the time.

We are no where near herd immunity-and there is no such thing.  If there were herd immunity-why do we still catch colds?


----------



## win231 (Sep 17, 2020)

Every Covid-19 diagnosis = big bill to Medicare.
Every use of ventilator = much bigger bill to Medicare.


----------



## Sunny (Sep 17, 2020)

> I have no idea how you've come to any of your conclusions. How does reintroducing an old malady even work into this?



The smallpox suggestion was sarcasm, INDY.  So were bubonic plague and diphtheria.  I "suggested" that we reinvigorate those diseases to kill off more people before Covid gets a chance to get to them, just as you were suggesting that there are no "extra" deaths because people are also dying of other diseases.  As Starsong pointed out, the statistics do show lots of extra deaths this year.

Facts are facts, even if they don't fit our preconceived ideas. And just on a common sense level, why would the entire world be in some sort of lockdown, with devastating impact on all the economies on earth, if it was really some kind of a hoax?  For what purpose?


----------



## win231 (Sep 17, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> These virus deaths are additional deaths -to the normal flu and other seasonal stuff.  And, YES, all the doctors and nurses and health people at the medical places in my area where both masks and face shields.  I SEE them wearing PPE all the time.
> 
> We are no where near herd immunity-and there is no such thing.  If there were herd immunity-why do we still catch colds?


 'Cuz we're not doing what doctors & other "experts" are telling us to do. Whatever they can't fix is *always* our fault. That includes colds, flu, arthritis, cancer, diabetes, heart attacks, strokes and Covid. 
Blaming us is how they remain the respectable, know-it-all professionals.
Much better than admitting they can't do much & can't cure anything.


----------



## Sunny (Sep 17, 2020)

win231 said:


> Every Covid-19 diagnosis = big bill to Medicare.
> Every use of ventilator = much bigger bill to Medicare.



So, what are you saying, Win?  That the doctors are making up fake diagnoses so they can bill Medicare for a nonexistent illness? Or ordering ventilators when they are not really needed, just to collect their big payment from Medicare?


----------



## win231 (Sep 17, 2020)

Sunny said:


> So, what are you saying, Win?  That the doctors are making up fake diagnoses so they can bill Medicare for a nonexistent illness? Or ordering ventilators when they are not really needed, just to collect their big payment from Medicare?


Oh, perish the thought.  They would *NEVER* do such a thing.  That would be dishonest!


----------



## Sunny (Sep 17, 2020)

Yup. It would be. I have more faith in my doctor than some people on this forum apparently have in theirs.


----------



## Irwin (Sep 17, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I've heard and read numerous stories of the devastating financial, emotional and physical toll this virus has taken on many.  It's hitting people in the bottom 50% of the financial spectrum particularly hard.



That's right. Most corporations have been bailed out along with salaried employees, but hourly employees are screwed. There has been so much abuse of the Payroll Protection Program, it's going to take a new industry to go after all the criminals. Here's one of the latest:

*Giuliani’s Payroll Company Got a Paycheck Protection Loan But Lists No Employees*
https://truthout.org/articles/giuli...check-protection-loan-but-lists-no-employees/


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 17, 2020)

macgeek said:


> I saw news yesterday, someone from WHO said "normal" may not return until 2022....
> 
> *where I live, people are jumping off a bridge to kill themselves*.... one guy was on a bridge 20 hours before they talked him down.. week before a husband and wife jumped, one survived the other did not.
> 
> ...


And here's the worst part: Cuomo admitted on TV that if someone dies because they are afraid to go to the hospital and have their unrelated malady treated, or if they suffer a mental breakdown because of COVID, they are counting those as COVID deaths. Those are not COVID deaths, they are deaths caused by undue panic.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 17, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> These virus deaths are additional deaths -to the normal flu and other seasonal stuff.  And, YES, all the doctors and nurses and health people at the medical places in my area where both masks and face shields.  I SEE them wearing PPE all the time.
> 
> We are no where near herd immunity-and there is no such thing.  If there were herd immunity-why do we still catch colds?


Every time you catch a cold it's anew strain. Once you've had a cold, you will never have that version of it again. Honest to God, this is common knowledge. How can anyone in this day and age not know that? 

And no, they're not. Read and review the table.


----------



## squirrelwhisperer (Sep 17, 2020)

*And how many of those deaths weren't really from covid??* Hospital get more money from the government for covid deaths, than they do from Medicare. So if someone dies of a heart attack, and has a fever it is charged as covid. Even though they tested negative for Covid, and actually died from a massive heart attack.


----------



## Nathan (Sep 17, 2020)

Irwin said:


> Covid causes those "complications." Redfield isn't a credible source for science.


He must have some credibility, the "top boss" is talking crap about him, just like the garbage slung at Dr. Fauci.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Sep 17, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> Every time you catch a cold it's anew strain. Once you've had a cold, you will never have that version of it again. Honest to God, this is common knowledge. How can anyone in this day and age not know that?
> 
> And no, they're not. Read and review the table.


Oh, gee, everyone gets a new strain of a cold,


----------



## Aneeda72 (Sep 17, 2020)

squirrelwhisperer said:


> *And how many of those deaths weren't really from covid??* Hospital get more money from the government for covid deaths, than they do from Medicare. So if someone dies of a heart attack, and has a fever it is charged as covid. Even though they tested negative for Covid, and actually died from a massive heart attack.


Again, where is your proof?


----------



## Aneeda72 (Sep 17, 2020)

Any “I believe the world is flat” people in this discussion?  As we all know, pictures of a round world are fake, the human race never went to the moon, and there is no such thing as climate change.

I think those who don’t believe in the virus are free to go forth into the world without a mask at all times, eat at indoor restrautants, go to movie theaters, and other inside crowed spaces as much as they want.  The faster such people die the safer it will be for the rest of us.  Just MY opinion.


----------



## Della (Sep 19, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> Believe NOTHING, question EVERYTHING.


 

I agree with questioning everything, but after that I usually believe someone.  In the case of COVID-19, I believe the world's leading epidemiologists over  the politicians.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 19, 2020)

win231 said:


> A nurse is suing the hospital she worked at because she refused to do what a doctor instructed her to do:
> A young man was brought into the ER with a fatal head injury from a motorcycle accident.  He was kept on a ventilator so his organs could be donated if his family agreed to it.  The doctor told the nurse to indicate Covid-19 on the death certificate as the cause of death.  She refused & she was fired.  I hope she collects big time.
> Makes one wonder how often that happens.


Is there a link to verify this story. To me is smells a bit like an urban myth.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 19, 2020)

Della said:


> I agree with questioning everything, but after that I usually believe someone.  In the case of COVID-19, I believe the world's leading epidemiologists over  the politicians.


This thread has run it's course and I don't wish to continue the debate, but please understand that he is the world's leading epidemiologist because we've been told he is the world's leading epidemiologist. There are many other leaders in the field that disagree with him.


----------



## Sunny (Sep 19, 2020)

win231 said:


> A nurse is suing the hospital she worked at because she refused to do what a doctor instructed her to do:
> A young man was brought into the ER with a fatal head injury from a motorcycle accident.  He was kept on a ventilator so his organs could be donated if his family agreed to it.  The doctor told the nurse to indicate Covid-19 on the death certificate as the cause of death.  She refused & she was fired.  I hope she collects big time.
> Makes one wonder how often that happens.



I looked this one up in Snopes, and it says Outdated. So it's not only an urban myth, it's an old one.  Nothing at all about the nurse suing the hospital. Apparently someone came up with the highly dubious story to begin with, and then it was embellished. 

Surprised you fell for this one, Win. It practically screams,  "Fake story!" at you.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 19, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> This thread has run it's course and I don't wish to continue the debate, but please understand that he is the world's leading epidemiologist because we've been told he is the world's leading epidemiologist. There are many other leaders in the field that disagree with him.


Please don't appoint yourself the arbiter of when a thread has run its course.  

If you're done with the discussion it's ok to just stop posting. No announcements or pronouncements necessary.


----------



## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 19, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Please don't appoint yourself the arbiter of when a thread has run its course.
> 
> If you're done with the discussion it's ok to just stop posting. No announcements or pronouncements necessary.


I will decide that for myself, thank you. If someone specifically calls me out, I intend to determine at that time whether I will respond. If someone doesn't wish me to respond, then don't quote me. Furthermore, my comment was intended to imply that this thread has run it's course insofar as I am concerned. I'm sorry you were unable to infer that.


----------



## win231 (Sep 19, 2020)

Sunny said:


> I looked this one up in Snopes, and it says Outdated. So it's not only an urban myth, it's an old one.  Nothing at all about the nurse suing the hospital. Apparently someone came up with the highly dubious story to begin with, and then it was embellished.
> 
> Surprised you fell for this one, Win. It practically screams,  "Fake story!" at you.


Surprised you missed post #29.  It's easy to read.


----------



## Sunny (Sep 19, 2020)

Post #29 does not in any way support this story, Win.  The first link just points out the difficulty in identifying a death due to coronavirus, as opposed to a death with coronavirus.

The second link comes from the Foundation for Economic Education, a "libertarian think tank with a right-center bias."  Enough said.  I don't want to get into politics again.


----------

