# I am STUCK in 1969! :)



## Paco Dennis (May 9, 2021)

I grew up in Silicon Valley, and was 17. I started playing guitar at 13 and formed a band at 14. A band called "Suspended Animation" ( we got the name flipping through a dictionary and no idea what it meant ). My Mother loved listening to the radio. I started playing trumpet at 8. Music was important in flooding our house with the "times". I was so passionate about music I stole a "Monkeys" record with my brother and got threatened with juvy hall.  So right after the Beatles revolution, my mother died. It changed me deeply. I became a lost (my father started drinking again, he was an alcoholic) and began my search for the meaning of life. By 1969 the hippie movement was everywhere and a powerful social force. I got caught up in it. Smoking weed, hash, and opium ( just once ), then onto LSD, Mushrooms, and Peyote. We hitchhiked everywhere and would camp with hippies in Big Sur. The colors and psychedelic artwork, and music was creating an alternate universe for about a year, 1969. That period has had the most powerful effect on my life ever since. I don't think that any major decisions I have made since then didn't have values I was overwhelmed with during that magical time.
  Did anyone else experiment with "unconventional" behavior in 1969?


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## hollydolly (May 9, 2021)

Nope,sorry.... much as I do remember '69'''..I was barely 14 years old...Our nod to  fashion that years was to wear cheesecloth blouses , flowers in our hair, and bells around our necks...no drugs...


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## Buckeye (May 9, 2021)

Me either.  in 1969 I was 23, married, had two children, a mortgage payment, a full time job and a part time job.  And I loved it.

Damn


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## Lewkat (May 9, 2021)

I was too busy raising a 3 yr. old son and juggling work schedules in between.


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## squatting dog (May 9, 2021)

I am at times too, but, for an entirely different reason.


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## Pinky (May 9, 2021)

I had opportunities to try LSD, but was always too afraid. I did smoke weed a couple of times in the early 70's .. all it did was cause gastritis (TMI?).


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## horseless carriage (May 9, 2021)

In 1969 I would have been 23, The most memorable achievement for me may seem trivial but it has had an impact on the rest of my life. I quit smoking, tobacco that is. Started in my teens when I was in college, how stupid was I? Like Paco my mother died young, unlike his father, my Dad raised four kids, and worked. We quickly learned that if we don't want to live in a hovel, we must do something about it. We all cleaned our rooms, washed our bed linen, learned what colour fast meant, kept our home clean. Basic skills that we have carried through life. Dad would come home from work and cook our evening meal. To us he's a saviour, the authorities wanted to put us up for adoption but he was having none of it. His attitude and aptitude rubbed off on all four of us. His never say die helped me through the difficult times in my adult life. But as for the question of 1969, I couldn't live in a time warp. And that's from someone who loves the swing band era, who drives a 75 year old car and who looks like a throwback.


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## Pepper (May 9, 2021)

1969


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## Pappy (May 9, 2021)

1969 I was 32. Had 3 children and bought our first house. I paid $15,500 for it. Some good music came out of the 60s.


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## Alligatorob (May 9, 2021)

I was also 17 in 1969, but living in the very conservative bible belt south... and wishing I could have your lifestyle!  I had cousins who lived in San Diego at the time and lived a bit like you, I sure did envy them.

Not sure who was better off, but interesting to think about the contrast.


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## jujube (May 9, 2021)

I got married in 1969 and moved to Turkey.


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## Nathan (May 9, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> Did anyone else experiment with "unconventional" behavior in 1969?


My _unconventional_ years were from '68 to about 73. After then I had started focusing on college, and had no time for frivolous behavior. No regrets, I take everything I've ever done as a "lessons learned" life experience.


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## oldiebutgoody (May 9, 2021)

Was a high school senior in Brooklyn, NY back in the year of '69. Lobbied against the imperialistic war the government waged on Vietnam and supported  freedom loving groups that sought to promote domestic justice. Had lots of goals back then.  Sadly, did not achieve a great many of those goals as life did not turn out quite as rosy as I expected. 

Wish I had a crystal ball back then.  Life would have turned out a lot better.


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## tbeltrans (May 9, 2021)

In 1969, I was 16 and in high school in Los Angeles.  There is a saying that if you remember the 60s, you probably weren't there.  While that isn't a true statement, it does capture the times in a humorous manner.

To me, it is a very sad thing to see people get stuck in some single period in their lives.  I remember seeing parts of a movie on TV years ago called "The Hoosiers".  In it, there were people who, years later, were still reliving a basketball season from high school.  I know people who seem to be stuck in the 1960s, unable to cope with the fact that the era is long gone and the world has moved on.  It is a sad thing when this becomes so prevalent in one's life that everything that comes after that single point in time is not worth living and is therefore wasted on remembering and reliving.  To me, this is an extreme that, thankfully, most of us don't get caught up in.

Being stuck in some bygone era like that can be a very debilitating thing, from what I have seen in those caught in that situation.  To me, it seems much healthier to live in the current moment.  Maybe it is fortunate that I have absolutely no nostalgia for my childhood.  I feel that my life has been much better as an adult forging my own way and making a life for myself.

Sure, there are aspects of my life that I can look back on, but they are clearly not the present.  For me, pop music is a bit like looking at an old photo album.  Certain songs can bring back memories.  However, they don't represent today.

Tony


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## Nathan (May 9, 2021)

Well said, @tbeltrans.

I see some people "stuck" in the past, worshiping all that *was *in that bygone era, railing against the things that have changed over the years. 
Once a year our small town has a "fun days" event(except for 2020) with a parade, food vendors and an old car show & antique farm machinery exhibit.  All very much fun and interesting.   The guys that have restored their 50s-60s dream cars are to be commended for their art work, I'm afraid that  I don't have that kind of focus on the past.


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## StarSong (May 9, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> Did anyone else experiment with "unconventional" behavior in 1969?


I did not. I was 16 in 1969 and fairly conservative.  My wilder days began a couple of years later.   

Each age, life stage and set of experiences has affected and molded the next.  That said, I identify more strongly with the styles, music and Boomer attitudes from the 1965-1980 era than any other.


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## SetWave (May 9, 2021)

I enlisted late in '65 and volunteered for Nam. It didn't take long to realize I would rather be back in San Francisco hanging out in Golden Gate Park. Eventually, by '69 I was waiting to make it to my discharge in '70. The rest is best left in the past yet often comes back as a reminder of where I've been and how I arrived at this moment in time.


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## dobielvr (May 9, 2021)

In 1969 I was 15/16 and in10th grade.  Just trying to make it thru high school.

I'm more of  'stuck in the 80s' kind of girl.  The clothes (some still in my closet), the music, the boyfriends, dancing, drinking.......so full of memories, that I don't want to forget!

I like to say..."The 80s were good to me"


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## win231 (May 9, 2021)

Musically, I'm stuck in the '60's.  I love oldies.
I'm also stuck in the 16th & 17th century; I play a lot of Bach & Mendelssohn.  *  *


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## hollydolly (May 9, 2021)

win231 said:


> Musically, I'm stuck in the '60's.  I love oldies.
> I'm also stuck in the 16th & 17th century; I play a lot of Bach & Mendelssohn.  **


the thing is I don't feel as though 60's & 70's music ARE oldies...


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## Irwin (May 9, 2021)

In '69, I was 12. I remember watching excited hippies packing backpacks, preparing to go to Woodstock for the festival, and I remember solemn soldiers coming home on leave from the war in Vietnam. I remember pool parties at the apartment complex where we lived and people singing "Na, na, na, na-na-na, na" along with The Beatles' Hey Jude blasting from somebody's radio. Or it might have been a portable record player. I only went to the daytime parties. The nighttime parties were for the older kids.

1969 was the year of the first Apollo moon landing. I had pictures of the Saturn rocket pasted all over my bedroom walls and had a model of it and the Lunar Module. It was pretty exciting when the day came when we actually landed on the moon! I also had models of dragsters and stock cars, STP and Valvoline stickers that I would send away for. I don't remember school being very important. I remember the school but none of the classes or anything else of note.

I think 1969 was the year my parents first separated. They would get back together a year later and then finally divorce three years after that. Family was a total mess.


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## Kaila (May 9, 2021)

I remember 1969.

On the East coast of USA, for many, it was going to Woodstock.

And many young people were heading out to the West Coast, to _find themselves.

Had those of you already found yourselves, 
if you were already located *there*?_


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## debodun (May 9, 2021)

The hippy movement passed me by.


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## tbeltrans (May 9, 2021)

One aspect of the hippie sayings that I got a chuckle of back then and even more now...never trust anyone over 30.  Have these people conveniently forgotten that or if not, how do they address it now that they are well over 30?   

Tony


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## Mr. Ed (May 9, 2021)

My Unconventional acts of individuality began 1969 when I clashed with my father and his so called values. In 1972, I got a glimpse of reality, and spent the next 34 years understanding reality, but unaware of how to live/stay in the moment.

In my Junior/Senior years of high school all I cared about was getting high on hallucinogenic substances. I was so messed up but that didn't stop me from using. Finally my mind broke, shattered more like it. It was time of freedom for me, leaving home and being on my own

It's crazy, but looking back on those years they were the greatest times of my life. I'm not surprised because life turned dark and confusing after that.


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## MarciKS (May 9, 2021)

i was 3. lol!


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## MarciKS (May 9, 2021)

dobielvr said:


> In 1969 I was 15/16 and in10th grade.  Just trying to make it thru high school.
> 
> I'm more of  'stuck in the 80s' kind of girl.  The clothes (some still in my closet), the music, the boyfriends, dancing, drinking.......so full of memories, that I don't want to forget!
> 
> I like to say..."The 80s were good to me"


i was in high school in the 80s. i enjoyed the music. high school was horrible.


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## SetWave (May 9, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> One aspect of the hippie sayings that I got a chuckle of back then and even more now...never trust anyone over 30.  Have these people conveniently forgotten that or if not, how do they address it now that they are well over 30?
> 
> Tony


As I got older I started saying, "Don't trust anyone under 30." Now, it seems . . . "Don't trust anyone under (pick the generation).


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## Ruth n Jersey (May 9, 2021)

I was dating my hubby to be in 1969. I had a good job and knew my life was about to change. We put the cart before the horse and bought our first house about 6 months before we got married. We spent every moment we could fixing up our new home and married in 1972.
We were so busy with our new home we didn't have time for anything else.
My son was born in 1976 and my daughter a year later.


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## Shalimar (May 9, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> I grew up in Silicon Valley, and was 17. I started playing guitar at 13 and formed a band at 14. A band called "Suspended Animation" ( we got the name flipping through a dictionary and no idea what it meant ). My Mother loved listening to the radio. I started playing trumpet at 8. Music was important in flooding our house with the "times". I was so passionate about music I stole a "Monkeys" record with my brother and got threatened with juvy hall.  So right after the Beatles revolution, my mother died. It changed me deeply. I became a lost (my father started drinking again, he was an alcoholic) and began my search for the meaning of life. By 1969 the hippie movement was everywhere and a powerful social force. I got caught up in it. Smoking weed, hash, and opium ( just once ), then onto LSD, Mushrooms, and Peyote. We hitchhiked everywhere and would camp with hippies in Big Sur. The colors and psychedelic artwork, and music was creating an alternate universe for about a year, 1969. That period has had the most powerful effect on my life ever since. I don't think that any major decisions I have made since then didn't have values I was overwhelmed with during that magical time.
> Did anyone else experiment with "unconventional" behavior in 1969?


   Frankly, I see nothing wrong with your approach to life. I have spoken to many people who feel as you do. There are clubs online where perfectly normal people enjoy discussing that period in history and what  it meant to them, and

how it still impacts their lives today. . Why should a person live in the present more than is comfortable for them? If one‘s obligations are met, then enjoy your golden years. If others don’t understand or agree with your perspective, that is ok too. Now where is the bong? I brought special brownies.


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## Ruthanne (May 9, 2021)

I was  12 years old in 1969 and did not get into those things till the following year.  I had the bellbottoms, peace sign tee shirts, tried much pot, LSD, you name it-I tried it and had mostly good experiences with them but did not get addicted to any of it.  Tried it out tho.  I could go for some weed about now tho--Shali-  oh @Shalimar where is the weed and bong?


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## Shalimar (May 9, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> I was  12 years old in 1969 and did not get into those things till the following year.  I had the bellbottoms, peace sign tee shirts, tried much pot, LSD, you name it-I tried it and had mostly good experiences with them but did not get addicted to any of it.  Tried it out tho.  I could go for some weed about now tho--Shali-  oh @Shalimar where is the weed and bong?


Look on your coffee table  Ruth, right next to the brownies.


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## Shalimar (May 9, 2021)

Once I was old enough, I tried almost everything. Booze, drugs, Men. 
I spent a glorious year with identical twin Danes. Lived in a commune. Back to the land. Sigh. I still practice

transcendental meditation. Sometimes I teach it.  I was too young for Woodstock etc, but I made up for it later. Also, Activism, not all of it legal. No apologies, I followed my conscience. Still do. Don’t  think I have ever had a truly mainstream moment in my life, but that works for me.


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## Ruthanne (May 9, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Look on your coffee table  Ruth, right next to the brownies.


Oh there it is...my eyesight is not as good as it used to bethank you for those.  Much needed and appreciated


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## Shalimar (May 9, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> Oh there it is...my eyesight is not as good as it used to bethank you for those. Much needed and appreciated


Most welcome, please don’t do the cancan like last time.


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## Paco Dennis (May 9, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> One aspect of the hippie sayings that I got a chuckle of back then and even more now...never trust anyone over 30.  Have these people conveniently forgotten that or if not, how do they address it now that they are well over 30?
> 
> Tony


Don't trust anyone.


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## Ruthanne (May 9, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> Don't trust anyone.


I know I don't fully trust anyone after the things I've been through in life.


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## Shalimar (May 9, 2021)

I struggle with trust also. This has been a challenging few months, and somewhat of an eye opener. But  hey, I am resilient.


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## Paco Dennis (May 10, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> I struggle with trust also. This has been a challenging few months, and somewhat of an eye opener. But  hey, I am resilient.


The way I see it is everyone is unique. They have their own way to survive the complexities in life. They way they go about surviving is different than anyone else. People don't have the awareness to be able to uncover and reveal the dynamics they applied to their survival adaptations. Even the closest person you think you know, is not the person you imagine them to be. That takes faith, fantasy thinking we make up to believe they can be trusted. Under the most rigorous training that organizations use to build cohesive trust, we all here the "news" that every one of them has a fly in their soup. Every one of them.


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## Shalimar (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> The way I see it is everyone is unique. They have their own way to survive the complexities in life. They way they go about surviving is different than anyone else. People don't have the awareness to be able to uncover and reveal the dynamics they applied to their survival adaptations. Even the closest person you think you know, is not the person you imagine them to be. That takes faith, fantasy thinking we make up to believe they can be trusted. Under the most rigorous training that organizations use to build cohesive trust, we all here the "news" that every one of them has a fly in their soup. Every one of them.


I have lived much of my life on the edge, not always by choice. I know what evil is in many forms. I will always be partially broken. Yet, in spite of it all, I also know there are people I can trust. This small feral person considers these

souls to be precious beyond compare, they are the jewels which provide balance when the dragons I keep in boxes want to come out to play. They remind me what love is, what friendship is, what is worth striving for, that humanity is worth the heartbreak, and that purpose can defeat pain and fear, again and again and again.


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## charry (May 10, 2021)

I was 14 in 1969, the hippy time was a few years back.......
It was skinheads and mods, with mohair suits and Ben Sherman’s , sheepskin coats ,
But there was plenty of drugs around at that time......


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## Ruthanne (May 10, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Most welcome, please don’t do the cancan like last time.


Is it okay if I do the monkey and the swim?


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## Keesha (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> I grew up in Silicon Valley, and was 17. I started playing guitar at 13 and formed a band at 14. A band called "Suspended Animation" ( we got the name flipping through a dictionary and no idea what it meant ). My Mother loved listening to the radio. I started playing trumpet at 8. Music was important in flooding our house with the "times". I was so passionate about music I stole a "Monkeys" record with my brother and got threatened with juvy hall.  So right after the Beatles revolution, my mother died. It changed me deeply. I became a lost (my father started drinking again, he was an alcoholic) and began my search for the meaning of life. By 1969 the hippie movement was everywhere and a powerful social force. I got caught up in it. Smoking weed, hash, and opium ( just once ), then onto LSD, Mushrooms, and Peyote. We hitchhiked everywhere and would camp with hippies in Big Sur. The colors and psychedelic artwork, and music was creating an alternate universe for about a year, 1969. That period has had the most powerful effect on my life ever since. I don't think that any major decisions I have made since then didn't have values I was overwhelmed with during that magical time.
> Did anyone else experiment with "unconventional" behavior in 1969?


I’m still experimenting with unconventional behaviour   but  in 1969, I was only 9 however I did sport the loud bell bottom type pants, the bright, colourful paper flowers and peace signs. Smoking pot, doing acid, shrooms, peyote while hitch hiking and driving my motorcycle across the country came years later. Everything in those days was spontaneous. I just went with the flow and loved every minute of it however I didn’t play trumpet @ 8. I played saxophone at 13 and still do. At 8, I was learning how to play piano and read music. The ‘60’s and ‘70’s were great years though. The music was fabulous, the freedom ... wonderful .... friends ....  .... yep!


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## Shalimar (May 10, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> Is it okay if I do the monkey and the swim?


Absolutely


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## Keesha (May 10, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Once I was old enough, I tried almost everything. Booze, drugs, Men.
> I spent a glorious year with identical twin Danes. Lived in a commune. Back to the land. Sigh. I still practice
> 
> transcendental meditation. Sometimes I teach it.  I was too young for Woodstock etc, but I made up for it later. Also, Activism, not all of it legal. No apologies, I followed my conscience. Still do. Don’t  think I have ever had a truly mainstream moment in my life, but that works for me.


Too young for Woodstock but made up for it later? LMAO!!!! .... that’s funny.
Never had a mainstream moment in your life?
Hahaha. Sounds like mine! lol


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## Shalimar (May 10, 2021)

Keesha said:


> Too young for Woodstock but made up for it later? LMAO!!!! .... that’s funny.
> Never had a mainstream moment in your life?
> Hahaha. Sounds like mine! lol


Heloooo sister


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## Paco Dennis (May 10, 2021)

Part of surviving in this world requires that we do have people we can trust, even if we are different. I have many friends, in fact a handful of them I would do about anything for, and them for me. We say we love them. Love is an inadequate word for our bonds with our close friends. The Greeks had a word for that bond. It was/is "Phila":

"
Not all bonds of philia involves reciprocity Aristotle notes. Some examples of these might include love of father to son, elder to younger or ruler to subject. Generally though, the bonds of philia are symmetrical.[4]

If philia is a type of love, Thomas Jay Oord has argued that it must be defined so as not to contradict love.  *Oord defines philia as an intentional response to promote well-being when cooperating with or befriending others. And his philia is not only that meaning. The philia also gives humans authentic friendship.[5]"*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philia

I have always found a handful of friends. "no human is an island."


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## tbeltrans (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> Don't trust anyone.


I trusted the people I was with in Vietnam.  If you are a combat veteran, you will understand this.  If not, be glad you don't have that experience to live with.  I trust my wife.  I can't speak for anyone else here, but there are people I have trusted in my life.

Tony


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## tbeltrans (May 10, 2021)

SetWave said:


> As I got older I started saying, "Don't trust anyone under 30." Now, it seems . . . "Don't trust anyone under (pick the generation).


There are people I have trusted at various points in my life.  As is always the case in this forum, I try to make clear that I don't know what I don't know, so I can only address my own situation.

Tony


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## Mr. Ed (May 10, 2021)

SetWave said:


> Don't trust anyone under 30


Now I say skepticism is a way of life.


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## Paco Dennis (May 10, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> I trusted the people I was with in Vietnam.  If you are a combat veteran, you will understand this.  If not, be glad you don't have that experience to live with.  I trust my wife.  I can't speak for anyone else here, but there are people I have trusted in my life.
> 
> Tony


I was going to mention the military. Of course this is trained loyalty to each other for survival reasons. But even in the military some really creepy stuff happens, even with those you thought you knew.


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## Paco Dennis (May 10, 2021)

Mr. Ed said:


> Now I say skepticism is a way of life.


Unfortunately we label ourselves with all kinds of "isms".


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## tbeltrans (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> I was going to mention the military. Of course this is trained loyalty to each other for survival reasons. But even in the military some really creepy stuff happens, even with those you thought you knew.


Were you in the military?  Are you speaking from that personal experience?

Tony


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## Paco Dennis (May 10, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> Were you in the military?  Are you speaking from that personal experience?
> 
> Tony


No, I was a C.O. (not Commanding Officer), but I worked in one of the most dangerous areas in the USofA. Brownsville, East New York at the end of the subways.


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## tbeltrans (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> No, I was a C.O. (not Commanding Officer), but I worked in one of the most dangerous areas in the USofA. Brownsville, East New York at the end of the subways.


Then don't speak to an experience you didn't have.

Tony


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## StarSong (May 10, 2021)

Kaila said:


> I remember 1969.
> 
> On the East coast of USA, for many, it was going to Woodstock.
> 
> ...


My family headed to the west coast right after I graduated high school.  I did indeed find myself- or at least a lifestyle and environment much better suited to who I was and wanted to be - which is why I never left.


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## Paco Dennis (May 10, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> Then don't speak to an experience you didn't have.
> 
> Tony


  Why, we all imagine what it is like, plus I have talked talked to many who have been in the military. I appreciate all their views. You seem offended by something, what is it?


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## StarSong (May 10, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> One aspect of the hippie sayings that I got a chuckle of back then and even more now...never trust anyone over 30.  Have these people conveniently forgotten that or if not, how do they address it now that they are well over 30?
> 
> Tony


Far too many in our generation traded their gentle, caring, inclusive hippie ideals for the almighty dollar. 

Being able to trust people over 30 became an ironic prophecy of the personal futures of many who'd uttered those words ten years earlier. They had no idea that they'd become even less trustworthy than the generation they were vilifiying.


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## tbeltrans (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> Why, we all imagine what it is like, plus I have talked talked to many who have been in the military. I appreciate all their views. You seem offended by something, what is it?


You weren't there, yet you speak of the experience as if you were.  You tell us to not trust anybody.  I mention a real life situation that I experienced firsthand, a situation in which trust is a necessity to survive, and you respond with some silly hearsay about the weirdness of the military.  We all imagine what it is like?  I have heard enough, more than enough.  I am done with this conversation and will take any further posts from you with a strong grain of salt.

Tony


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## Aunt Marg (May 10, 2021)

Boy, do I ever feel young.

I was age 6. 

Myself, I'm stuck in the 70's


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## JonDouglas (May 10, 2021)

In 1969, I had a good job teaching accelerated math, a contract to write a math text, a lovely wife who taught grade school, a new house (with mortgage) , a workshop, motorycle and a 1968 Dodge Charger that we drove all over the country.  Life was conventional, helpful to others and quite good overall.


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## Mr. Ed (May 10, 2021)




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## Mr. Ed (May 10, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> a 1968 Dodge Charge


I had a 1967 Dodge Charger


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## Paco Dennis (May 10, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> You weren't there, yet you speak of the experience as if you were.  You tell us to not trust anybody.  I mention a real life situation that I experienced firsthand, a situation in which trust is a necessity to survive, and you respond with some silly hearsay about the weirdness of the military.  We all imagine what it is like?  I have heard enough, more than enough.  I am done with this conversation and will take any further posts from you with a strong grain of salt.
> 
> Tony


Wow, never meant to run you off. It seems like our imagination is a key element to our ability to navigate our environment. Yes, we imagine things that are silly sometimes. In this case I wasn't there but the press was. We saw it on T.V.. There were hawks and Doves and everywhere in between. After my study of the Viet Nam war, which is extensive, my view is that 1000's of people died needlessly. We shouldn't have been there. A false flag event, "The Tonkin incident", where American destroyer Maddox was supposedly attacked twice by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened. What was happening at the time were aggressive South Vietnamese raids against the North in the same general area. Huge American presence wasn't decisive and President Nixon negotiated a "peace with honour" in 1973. This war was lost, when North Vietnam finally conquered South Vietnam in 1975.,  pushed the nation into believing we needed to go to war with the Viet Cong. ( 9/11, Iraq?)  
  In our group in New York there was someone killed, forcably raped, many were harassed and beaten up, and an apartment was robbed. 

  Though you and I are wearing different colored glasses doesn't mean that one pair is right and the other wrong...the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.


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## JimBob1952 (May 10, 2021)

I'm probably stuck musically in 1971, an amazing year in pop music (Who's Next, Led Zeppelin IV, Sticky Fingers, Tupelo Honey, Tapestry, Blue, What's Going On, so many others)

Culturally, I'm probably stuck in 1961.  I was only eight or nine years old then but I like the Mad Men era in terms of martinis, suits, cigarettes, bachelor pads, etc.  French New Wave movies, novels by Updike and Bellow and Malamud and Walker Percy.  

Otherwise, I live in the present with all its pros and cons.  What other choice do we have?


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## tbeltrans (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> Wow, never meant to run you off. It seems like our imagination is a key element to our ability to navigate our environment. Yes, we imagine things that are silly sometimes. In this case I wasn't there but the press was. We saw it on T.V.. There were hawks and Doves and everywhere in between. After my study of the Viet Nam war, which is extensive, my view is that 1000's of people died needlessly. We shouldn't have been there. A false flag event, "The Tonkin incident", where American destroyer Maddox was supposedly attacked twice by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened. What was happening at the time were aggressive South Vietnamese raids against the North in the same general area. Huge American presence wasn't decisive and President Nixon negotiated a "peace with honour" in 1973. This war was lost, when North Vietnam finally conquered South Vietnam in 1975.,  pushed the nation into believing we needed to go to war with the Viet Cong. ( 9/11, Iraq?)
> In our group in New York there was someone killed, forcably raped, many were harassed and beaten up, and an apartment was robbed.
> 
> Though you and I are wearing different colored glasses doesn't mean that one pair is right and the other wrong...the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.


You missed my point entirely.  You weren't there, period.  You read about it, heard about it, but you didn't experience the point I was making.  You are bringing all manner of philosophy and opinion into it, and I am continuing to cut to the chase.  I said in my post about being in Vietnam that if you didn't experience that combat situation, then you wouldn't understand that necessary trust.  None of what you are saying here addresses the fact that that you weren't there and therefore didn't experience that single point I was making.

All too often in forums such as this, there are people posting about things they did not experience firsthand with all manner of opinion anyway.  We don't know what we don't know.  I try to be very clear about the limits of my knowledge and experience, and that is the only point I am focused on here.  All the rest of it I am not addressing.

Tony


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## Paco Dennis (May 10, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> You missed my point entirely.


I completely understand what you are saying. Do you understand what I am saying? Were you "there"?


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## JimBob1952 (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> Wow, never meant to run you off. It seems like our imagination is a key element to our ability to navigate our environment. Yes, we imagine things that are silly sometimes. In this case I wasn't there but the press was. We saw it on T.V.. There were hawks and Doves and everywhere in between. After my study of the Viet Nam war, which is extensive, my view is that 1000's of people died needlessly. We shouldn't have been there. A false flag event, "The Tonkin incident", where American destroyer Maddox was supposedly attacked twice by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened. What was happening at the time were aggressive South Vietnamese raids against the North in the same general area. Huge American presence wasn't decisive and President Nixon negotiated a "peace with honour" in 1973. This war was lost, when North Vietnam finally conquered South Vietnam in 1975.,  pushed the nation into believing we needed to go to war with the Viet Cong. ( 9/11, Iraq?)
> In our group in New York there was someone killed, forcably raped, many were harassed and beaten up, and an apartment was robbed.
> 
> Though you and I are wearing different colored glasses doesn't mean that one pair is right and the other wrong...the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.



The





Paco Dennis said:


> Wow, never meant to run you off. It seems like our imagination is a key element to our ability to navigate our environment. Yes, we imagine things that are silly sometimes. In this case I wasn't there but the press was. We saw it on T.V.. There were hawks and Doves and everywhere in between. After my study of the Viet Nam war, which is extensive, my view is that 1000's of people died needlessly. We shouldn't have been there. A false flag event, "The Tonkin incident", where American destroyer Maddox was supposedly attacked twice by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened. What was happening at the time were aggressive South Vietnamese raids against the North in the same general area. Huge American presence wasn't decisive and President Nixon negotiated a "peace with honour" in 1973. This war was lost, when North Vietnam finally conquered South Vietnam in 1975.,  pushed the nation into believing we needed to go to war with the Viet Cong. ( 9/11, Iraq?)
> In our group in New York there was someone killed, forcably raped, many were harassed and beaten up, and an apartment was robbed.
> 
> Though you and I are wearing different colored glasses doesn't mean that one pair is right and the other wrong...the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.




The USS Maddox was attacked by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats on August 2, 1964.  That is not in dispute.  What was made up was a second attack on August 4.  Our ships were firing at radar "ghosts" and this morphed into a second incident.  LBJ used these as a pretext for pushing Congress into a resolution allowing for direct participation by the US. 

The history of Vietnam is very complicated.  I recommend Max Hastings' recent book on the subject Vietnam, an Epic Tragedy 1945-1975, which is quite objective. 

We negotiated "peace with honor" with North Vietnam in 1973.  In 1975, after we had left, the North Vietnamese (dishonorably) violated the peace accords and invaded the South.  They executed thousands of South Vietnamese, imprisoned and "reeducated" hundreds of thousands more, and drove as many as 1.5 million into exile as "boat people."  (About 200,000 of these are thought to have died from drowning and/or exposure).

It was a miserable episode in American history, but it's worth thinking about the absolutely vile nature of the regime we fought against.


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## tbeltrans (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> I completely understand what you are saying. Do you understand what I am saying? Were you "there"?


I was there in Vietnam and that is the single point I was addressing.  I asked two very simple and direct questions of you (Were you in the military? Are you speaking from that personal experience?) and you answered that you were not in the military and not speaking from personal experience.  End of story, end of conversation.  The rest of the content of your posts in the conversation are really another conversation entirely, and one I am not interested in pursuing.  It appears you have other takers, so have at it with them.

Tony


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## Paco Dennis (May 10, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> I was there in Vietnam and that is the single point I was addressing.  I asked two very simple and direct questions of you (Were you in the military? Are you speaking from that personal experience?) and you answered that you were not in the military and not speaking from personal experience.  End of story, end of conversation.  The rest of the content of your posts in the conversation are really another conversation entirely, and one I am not interested in pursuing.  It appears you have other takers, so have at it with them.
> 
> Tony



This conversation is with you. Your intent on asking me those 2 questions are obvious. The world is NOT OBVIOUS! Maybe you could take off those army boots and put on my pair of sandals?


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## Pepper (May 10, 2021)

In high school my son asked me:  When is your generation going to stop fighting over Vietnam?  I answered:  When we're Dead.


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## StarSong (May 10, 2021)

Pepper said:


> In high school my son asked me:  When is your generation going to stop fighting over Vietnam?  I answered:  When we're Dead.


True that!


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## tbeltrans (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> This conversation is with you. Your intent on asking me those 2 questions are obvious. The world is NOT OBVIOUS! Maybe you could take off those army boots and put on my pair of sandals?


Don't you EVER speak to another Vietnam veteran that way.  There are several others here.  I have put you on ignore, so there is no point in you responding to this post.  Just stop right here, right now.

Tony


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## Paco Dennis (May 10, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> Don't you EVER speak to another Vietnam veteran that way.  There are several others here.  I have put you on *ignore*, so there is no point in you responding to this post.  Just stop right here, right now.
> 
> Tony



Ok I will do the same with you. Fun isn't it?


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## tbeltrans (May 10, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> Ok I will do the same with you. Fun isn't it?


When military service becomes the joke you make of it...no, it isn't fun and I seriously doubt any other veterans in this forum appreciate it either.  You should be ashamed, but I realize you simply don't have that capacity to understand just what you are talking about without the real world experience behind it.  Fortunately, there are plenty of civilians who respect the military and those who served.

Tony


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## Ruthanne (May 10, 2021)

Hey @Paco Dennis How bout we all start over here now that you got each other on ignore.  I like this thread and have been enjoying it.    Let's have a better time of it now. I will keep posting in it if I have something to contribute.


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## JimBob1952 (May 10, 2021)

Tony
[/QUOTE]





Ruthanne said:


> Hey @Paco Dennis How bout we all start over here now that you got each other on ignore.  I like this thread and have been enjoying it.    Let's have a better time of it now. I will keep posting in it if I have something to contribute.



Wow, my sentiments exactly.


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## JimBob1952 (May 10, 2021)

Another time I sort of get stuck in is about 1996.  Booming economy, no 9-11 yet, lots of interesting grunge music, still some pretty good movies, and no social media to speak of.  My son was nine and we were in the midst of adopting my then four year old daughter from Lithuania.  Bill Clinton had his flaws but we did enjoy eight years of peace and prosperity under him (even a balanced budget!)


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## Aunt Marg (May 10, 2021)

I'll tell you all where I get stuck occasionally, behind the big and little hands on the clock.


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## Ruthanne (May 11, 2021)




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## Ruthanne (May 11, 2021)

I love the music from then:


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## win231 (May 12, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> I love the music from then:


Interesting history behind one of Peter & Gordon's hits - "A World Without Love:"  Paul McCartney wrote it when he was 16 & gave it to them when he moved into their place & was dating Peter's sister:  Interestingly, John Lennon didn't think the song was very good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_World_Without_Love


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## Paco Dennis (May 12, 2021)




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## Victor (May 12, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> I grew up in Silicon Valley, and was 17. I started playing guitar at 13 and formed a band at 14. A band called "Suspended Animation" ( we got the name flipping through a dictionary and no idea what it meant ). My Mother loved listening to the radio. I started playing trumpet at 8. Music was important in flooding our house with the "times". I was so passionate about music I stole a "Monkeys" record with my brother and got threatened with juvy hall.  So right after the Beatles revolution, my mother died. It changed me deeply. I became a lost (my father started drinking again, he was an alcoholic) and began my search for the meaning of life. By 1969 the hippie movement was everywhere and a powerful social force. I got caught up in it. Smoking weed, hash, and opium ( just once ), then onto LSD, Mushrooms, and Peyote. We hitchhiked everywhere and would camp with hippies in Big Sur. The colors and psychedelic artwork, and music was creating an alternate universe for about a year, 1969. That period has had the most powerful effect on my life ever since. I don't think that any major decisions I have made since then didn't have values I was overwhelmed with during that magical time.
> Did anyone else experiment with "unconventional" behavior in 1969?


I got it!  But I am not nostalgic. It was a confusing time for me as a hippie type. Our clothes are supposedly costumes now. I was too naive and unsure of life.  Wish I had met a LTR


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## Sassycakes (May 12, 2021)

*I have mixed feelings about 1969. I was worried constantly about many of my friends serving during the Viet Nam war. Then I was thrilled when my husband got out of the Navy alive and well in 1969*.


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## Joe Smith (Jun 20, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> View attachment 164354


That is cool as all out! Kudos!


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## Joe Smith (Jun 20, 2021)

WOODSTOCK!


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## cdestroyer (Jun 21, 2021)

spent the entire year 1969 in the navy at long beach ca waiting our turn to take the ship to maine shipyard for overhaul....


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## Pecos (Jun 21, 2021)

cdestroyer said:


> spent the entire year 1969 in the navy at long beach ca waiting our turn to take the ship to maine shipyard for overhaul....


I put on my Chief’s hat in Jan of 1969. I was 26 at the time and was having a ball in Hawaii.


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## bingo (Jun 21, 2021)

none of that decade appeals to me


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 21, 2021)

In 1969, I was in US Navy Boot Camp, and then Corpsman School. The Navy is not a great fan of "unconventional" anything.


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## Pecos (Jun 21, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> In 1969, I was in US Navy Boot Camp, and then Corpsman School. The Navy is not a great fan of "unconventional" anything.


LOL, I was in for 31 years and certainly would not disagree with you on this point.


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## Gaer (Jun 21, 2021)

1969:  I was young and pretty, a bikini body, and jumped in a marriage with TOTALLY THE WRONG MAN!!!!  
It was HELL!!!!  He was HORRIBLE!  
If I had any BAD KARMA coming, I lived it out through the whole 1970's!  
When i ridof him, my whole life changed back to normality!


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## chic (Jun 21, 2021)

I was still a kid compared to some of you folks but I had a blast in 1969. I just wish I had been grown up enough for Woodstock.


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## DaveA (Jun 21, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> I love the music from then:


"Where have all the flowers gone?" - - -Loved it Ruthanne.


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## DaveA (Jun 21, 2021)

After reading his post, I'm in Pappy's league in 1969.  

33 years old, my 4 years in the military over by 1957.   Married for 12 years, 4 kids, new house and well settled in a lifetime career.   Aside from enjoying some of the music, 1969 was just another year.


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## fmdog44 (Jun 21, 2021)

I was in downtown Chicago in 1968 with friends to get a first hand look at what is called "Anatomy Of A Police Riot" under the mayor Richard J. Daly. We did not stay long after seeing how far the police went in beating the citizens with their batons. We literally ran like hell to the car and headed home.


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## 911 (Jun 22, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> I grew up in Silicon Valley, and was 17. I started playing guitar at 13 and formed a band at 14. A band called "Suspended Animation" ( we got the name flipping through a dictionary and no idea what it meant ). My Mother loved listening to the radio. I started playing trumpet at 8. Music was important in flooding our house with the "times". I was so passionate about music I stole a "Monkeys" record with my brother and got threatened with juvy hall.  So right after the Beatles revolution, my mother died. It changed me deeply. I became a lost (my father started drinking again, he was an alcoholic) and began my search for the meaning of life. By 1969 the hippie movement was everywhere and a powerful social force. I got caught up in it. Smoking weed, hash, and opium ( just once ), then onto LSD, Mushrooms, and Peyote. We hitchhiked everywhere and would camp with hippies in Big Sur. The colors and psychedelic artwork, and music was creating an alternate universe for about a year, 1969. That period has had the most powerful effect on my life ever since. I don't think that any major decisions I have made since then didn't have values I was overwhelmed with during that magical time.
> Did anyone else experiment with "unconventional" behavior in 1969?


Unconventional behavior? I did to a degree, but no drugs ever. I had a goal in mind and had I taken drugs and been caught, it wouldn't have happened.


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## Pecos (Jun 22, 2021)

In 1973, the Navy, in an act of great generosity, picked me to complete my BS degree on their nickel along with a number of other ex-enlisted officers. We had to have accumulated enough credits to complete our BS in two years. Someone running the program wisely concluded that most career officers were clueless about what the younger sailors had experienced and they required that we take a 4 hour course that we commonly referred to as "Hippie History." But the designers of that course were absolutely right.

Our Professor was a Black Retired Master Chief who had gotten his Doctorate after retiring from the Navy. He knew how to deal with a bunch of ex-enlisted officers who were completely ignorant about the culture of the late 1950's and the 1960's.

We studied: The Beatnik Movement, The Hippie Culture, Listened to Hippie Poetry, Studied Racial History (Not a watered down version), Read the Autobiography Of Malcom X, Read Economic Related Books By Galbreath, Studied Farm Labor Issues, Studied Crime Patterns, and Listened to some very angry people about various topics. Some of us were assigned outside projects like spending a day at a State Prison talking to inmates. I spent a day with the ACLU getting an understanding of what they do and why. Class discussions were very, very lively. That old Master Chief did a marvelous job of keeping us focused.

I concluded that this course was one of the best I ever had, and I was an engineering student.
@OneEyedDiva , @Ruthanne, @Aunt Marg , @Shalimar, @911, @Gaer


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