# The ObamaCare Ripoff



## Don M.

Medicare operates smoothly with about a 2% overhead for administrative costs.  The Insurance companies are ripping Obamacare Off to the tune of over 22%.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102707721

However, that's not too surprising, given that most of this legislation was written by these very same companies, and their Lobbyists....And our Washington politicians were dumb enough to fall for it.


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## Butterfly

IMHO, insurance companies will rip off anything they can get their hands on.  Always have, always will.  What we need is single payer health care.


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## Don M.

Butterfly said:


> IMHO, insurance companies will rip off anything they can get their hands on.  Always have, always will.  What we need is single payer health care.



Now, some of these insurers are lobbying for rate increases as high as 51% for 2016, and beyond.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/some-obamacare-insurers-want-massive-premium-hikes/

While it is doubtful that they will get such massive hikes, there is every likelihood that, after negotiations, they and various State Insurance Commissions will begin to settle for increases in the 10 to 20% range.  That is going to drive the premiums and co-pays into levels that fewer people can afford.  The government "solution" will be to increase the "subsidies", and put the Federal and State budgets under even more stress.  Heaven Forbid that our politicians should get out of the Health Care Industry Hip Pockets, and begin to move this nation towards a sensible SP solution.


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## imp

My wife, 10 years my junior, HAD to join "Obamacare" last March, at age 63. Her coverage cost $600/month. Her out of pocket cost was $97. End of year, having to file a tax return, we filed married filing separately. After all the gobbledy-gook, first govt forms incorrect, then "corrected",  her 1040 form worked out that she was due a refund of $577. Few weeks ago, form in mail informs us she must PAY $600, PLUS INTEREST! First notice ALREADY HAS INTEREST TACKED ON! 

Tried calling, email, the bottom line is that even INDIGENT are being SCREWED by the gov't.   imp


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## Don M.

Be Prepared...it will probably only get worse.  The ACA has done Nothing to reduce health care costs, and the Insurance/Drug/Health Care Industries are finding any number of ways to increase the costs under this legislation.  This is All just a "shell game" intended to make the public think that they are getting a break...meanwhile the unfunded burdens on the Federal and State budgets continue to increase.  I remain cautiously optimistic that by the end of this decade, things will be such a mess that Washington will have little choice but to learn from the lessons of the rest of the Western World.  The Problem, for a lot of people, will be trying to avoid going bankrupt in the interim.  

60 Minutes did a report on the ridiculous costs of Cancer Drugs last night.  It is getting so bad that even a lot of doctors are rebelling at these costs because they are having to convince their patients that these costs are necessary.  It is costing some people thousands of dollars a month to receive these treatments...and their insurance is covering only a part of that.  One of our Son-in-Laws Fathers was recently diagnosed with Stage 4 liver cancer, and they have started him on Chemo.  He will probably Not survive, but the chemo will be costing a fortune, and his wife is hoping that these treatments don't take their life's savings.


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## imp

Don, a curative drug has recently been made available for a type of hepatitis, I forget the type, unimportant. Only a liver transplant would save the patient's life, before this drug was introduced. The drug cures, and eliminates the need for a transplant. 

So, how to price such a drug? Obviously, sell the regimen of drug for slightly less than the average cost of a transplant! The makers of the drug actually had the audacity to make that statement publicly!  imp


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## Don M.

I suppose a drug might help Hepatitis,, but in this old fella's case, he has multiple tumors growing in his liver.  Plus, he has had a history of major medical issues for the past 4 or 5 years, and at age 75, there is probably little that can be done....he is certainly Not a candidate for a transplant, at his age, etc.  

Prescription drugs, for the most part, seem to be little more than a Racket designed to milk as money as possible out of a patients wallet, and the insurance company.  Few of these drugs actually cure anything...they just mask the symptoms.  Besides, the potential side effects of most of them seem worse than the original illness.  If Medical Marijuana ever become readily available all across the country, it would probably put a serious dent in these drug companies bottom line...and be more effective than most of their drugs...especially for reducing pain.


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## Butterfly

Every time I even THINK about health insurance carriers and costs I get just furious.  Bunch of bloodsuckers, to put it mildly.  We need to go to single payer and let Medicare negotiate for drug costs.  We desperately need to take the HUGE profit incentive out of healthcare.   As it is the insurance companies and drug companies are holding a gun to our heads.  AND don't get me started on the holier-than-thou folks that want to seriously restrict doctors' ability to prescribe effective pain relief meds to suffering patients.  When my niece was dying of cancer earlier this year, her doctor told us that the law now required that SHE come in to the office to renew her prescriptions  -- Come in?  She couldn't even get out of bed, especially not without her pain meds, but the do-gooders are too worried about the possibility of people getting "hooked", like it matters if you get addicted or not when you are in the final stages of cancer!  Blankety-blank do-gooders think they are somehow inspired by the Almighty to decide what is best for you and get between you and your physician!


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## QuickSilver

I have never heard of a Hospice restricting pain medication. In fact that is the sole purpose of hospice.


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## Butterfly

She was not yet in hospice at that time.  She had wished to be taken care of by family as long as possible, which took turns doing.  Soon after this, we got Hospice involved.


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## Sunny

Our heath care system is a mess, no doubt about it, but don't blame Obama. It was a mess long before he took office, and he's done his best to alleviate at least some of the problem.

If we need a scapegoat to blame, I would blame the drug companies. The astronomical prices are set by them, not the insurance companies, and not by Congress or the President.


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## AZ Jim

Sunny said:


> Our heath care system is a mess, no doubt about it, but don't blame Obama. It was a mess long before he took office, and he's done his best to alleviate at least some of the problem.
> 
> If we need a scapegoat to blame, I would blame the drug companies. The astronomical prices are set by them, not the insurance companies, and not by Congress or the President.



I agree Sunny, the enemy is not as Don focuses, the plan or the President who presented it, it is the Greed of Insurance companies and Pharmacy companies.  If there was a spirit of cooperation in Congress, or concern for their constituents, ACA could be tightened up and made better.  As it is, the repubs are more interested in resisting anything that might help the President or you and I.


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## Phillygal

Were it not for the ACA, by March I wouldn't be able to afford my insulin bc of the donut hole. The ACA is closing that. 

Also I got insurance for my son and husband. $150 monthly. The deductible is $6k/$10k BUT since we bought an HMO it'll never be an issue. You only pay your set copay for everything. That would stop if you hit the limit. At $25 for drs and $400 per hospitalization even I likely wouldn't hit it.


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## Don M.

Sunny said:


> Our heath care system is a mess, no doubt about it, but don't blame Obama. It was a mess long before he took office, and he's done his best to alleviate at least some of the problem.
> 
> If we need a scapegoat to blame, I would blame the drug companies. The astronomical prices are set by them, not the insurance companies, and not by Congress or the President.



Oh, I don't blame Obama....I think he bit off more than he could chew when he proposed the ACA....failing to note that our Health Care Industry has most of our politicians firmly in their hip pockets.  I think the truest words about this legislation were spoken by Nancy Pelosi, when she said "Congress needs to pass this Bill, so we can find out what's in it".   It has taken 30 or 40 years for the Health Care Industry to warp our system into little more than a High Profit Margin Machine, and the ACA does Nothing to reverse this trend.  Sure, some people have probably been helped by the ACA, but the vast majority have Not.  All the ACA has done is supply yet another conduit for our Greedy System to pad its profits.  

The ONLY way for this nation to achieve meaningful health care reform will be for the people to Unite and demand that our "Bought and Paid For" Congress begins to move this nation to a SP system much like the rest of the civilized world.  Simply reducing this battle to a Democrat vs. Republican "contest" overlooks the fact that the Health Care Industry is equally generous to members on BOTH sides of the Aisle.  If a person follows the financial news, it quickly becomes obvious that Insurance rates and Co-pays are going to increase by double digit percentages every year...for the foreseeable future.  Many of the reports are already trying to prepare people for some serious "sticker shock" when the 2016 rates are announced...and it will only get worse from there.  Here is just one of many samples of what to expect for 2016.

http://krqe.com/2015/06/29/blue-cross-files-for-biggest-health-exchange-premium-hike/

Our present system is all about Profit...and little else.  If you do an internet search on the top 10 best paying career fields in the U.S., 7 or 8 of the top 10 are in the Medical field.  If you look at drug company growth and profits, that has skyrocketed over the past 20+ years.  These doctors...which so many hold in high regard...probably just try to assess the patients symptoms, then go the WebMD on their laptop, to see which drug to prescribe, which will best mask the symptoms and offer the best profit potential....or offer their cohorts in surgery the opportunity to conduct marginally effective, and highly profitable surgeries. 

Then, when the failures in our system start to become apparent, the lawyers take over with their huge Class Action Lawsuits....which forces all the doctors to carry very expensive Malpractice Insurance....which the patient ultimately pays for in the form of higher costs at the doctors office.

But, it's Not All the Health Care Industries fault....people have to take some of the blame themselves, with their bad habits.  A good case, in point, is the premium added to the cost of insurance for Smokers.  This is certainly good, but just one of the steps needed.  Obesity, and its multiple "side effects" has become this nations Number One health issue.  If the same principle were applied to the Millions of our Fat A$$e$, They would have to pay substantially more for their insurance, if they refuse to adopt some meaningful diet and exercise routines. 

No, its Not Obama's fault...he had no idea of what he was getting into when he promised "You can keep your Doctor".  We will ONLY see meaningful reform when the vast majority of people are having to cut back on household expenses in order to pay for their health care and/or insurance....and I predict that day is not more than 5 or 6 years from now.


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## SeaBreeze

The Affordable Care Act is much better than how things were before, but I agree that Single Payer would be most ideal.


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## SifuPhil

Don M. said:


> ...  Few of these drugs actually cure anything...they just mask the symptoms.  Besides, the potential side effects of most of them seem worse than the original illness.  If Medical Marijuana ever become readily available all across the country, it would probably put a serious dent in these drug companies bottom line...and be more effective than most of their drugs...especially for reducing pain.



Yes! :encouragement:


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## doat

Are those that voted for the ACA insured by the ACA?  What does that tell you?


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## Butterfly

I don't really blame the doctors.  Most of them, at least around here, have been forced out of solo or partnership practice by insurance hassles, slow pay and meager pay insurance companies, and the rising cost of medical malpractice insurance (thanks, American Trial Lawyers Association), and have been financially forced to go to work for large practices associated with hospitals and are now salaried.  One of the best docs around here -- she was wonderful and compassionate and had been my primary care provider for years -- retired  from medicine because, as she said, she could no longer afford to practice and was unwilling to provide the "one size fits all" hurried practice most of the insurance carriers expected.  There are many, many more of those.  Here he have almost no small practice physicians left.  Too bad.

And don't get me started on big pharmaceutical companies -- greedy bloodsuckers, as I've said before.


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## imp

Agreed, and understood! However, are the majority of large corporations also not also greedy money-mongers? How about starting with the oil companies? Our economy has seen two of the "big three" automakers fail, under bankruptcy, but nary a failure in big oil, in my memory.

Lest we complain about utilities costs: Tucson Electric Power went belly up some years back, they being a supplier to a major growth area. I am not disagreeing about the drug-makers, simply making big-company comparisons.     imp


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## Don M.

The purpose of Any business or corporation is to make money.  If they do so in a responsible manner, and create good jobs for their employees, they are an asset.  However, in recent years, these drug companies have gone overboard in producing products of questionable value...and charging a ridiculous amount for them.  They talk about the high cost of developing these drugs, but many of them are developed by universities and govt. subsidized research programs, and then bought out by the drug companies and produced at a huge profit.  

However, in many cases, that profit can be justified, because these drug companies have to set aside a huge amount of money to offset the Class Action Lawsuits that inevitably result a few years down the road, when their "Miracle Drug", and its major side effects, begin to kill people.


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