# Adult Children



## QuickSilver (Dec 12, 2014)

I am facing a situation with my oldest son.  He is an alcoholic.. and is back in rehab for the 2nd time this year. He has been living in my home since he got out of the military in 2003.  I had to have him physically removed from the premises last Sunday.   He is presently at a VA facility.   I have told him he cannot return to my home,    But I cannot let him die in the street.   How far does a parent go to help an adult child?   How far have you gone?   How far would you go in this situation?


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## Mrs. Robinson (Dec 12, 2014)

I have gone to Hell and back to help my adult child,who was addicted to drugs for 7 years. And I still don`t know what the correct answer to your question is. I only know that I did what I HAD to do-I was convinced that he WOULD die in the street if I didn`t do everything possible. It cost me a lot at the time-my husband was angry,my other kids were angry-but,while that all mattered to me,I had to do what I had to do. In the end though,it was my husband`s actions that saved him. He worked with a local cop friend of ours (unbeknownst to me) to have him arrested on charges that,I have to say,were just short of bogus,and he spent four months in jail waiting for Dept. of Justice results. When the results came back showing he was innocent,he was released. But the time in jail allowed him (forced him really) to get clean and think with a clear head,and realize that this was NOT what he wanted his life to be. That was 7 1/2 years ago and he hasn`t looked back. Today he is very successful in his job,a great dad to his 13 yo son and newborn daughter,a wonderful husband and son.

I have known moms who have kicked their kids out under these circumstances and told them to "sink or swim"-for some that worked and for some it didn`t. I just know that I was never able to do that. I just had to do what would allow me to be able to sleep at night,right or wrong.

I am going to send you a link to a woman`s blog that I subscribe to. Her son is also an addict. You may find helpful advice there. I will PM it.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 12, 2014)

I just know what I've seen on TV shows like Dr.Phil.  He's had some guests that were desperate for help, because their adult sons were dependent on them, living with them, alcoholic, abusive, etc. etc.  Of course with your son being a veteran, it a little bit different, as there is likely other things behind his drinking.

Anyway, all the success stories in any case, were the ones who went far away for live in treatment and rehabilitation.  Out of the state, on a large farm or ranch scenario, where they lived there with other for a loooong time before being released back into society.  Those folks turned themselves around.  Of course it's very pricey and not affordable by average folks like you and me, but when Dr. Phil picks up the tab, it's doable.  Would be nice if the VA had a quality live-in facility like that, which was out of town.

No easy answer I'm afraid, if he's on the street, he's definitely going to spiral downward.


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## Ina (Dec 12, 2014)

QuickSilver,
This is something I have some experience in. When our son was in his middle 30's, he came home saying he was not doing well dealing with society.  He was born 2&1/2 months early, and had several learning diabilties.  One of the main ones was he couldn't seem to read other people very well, and they would take advantage of his open personality.

Our son had a problem with drugs and alcohol.  He would go off a couple times a year, and he would stay gone for three or four weeks at a time.  When he came back, we had to watch him go through withdrawls each time.

We also had four other children who had busy lives, and not enough time to help us as we grew older and disabled.  Our son was very good at keeping our animals and small farm functioning.  But the other children became jealous of the fact that he could inherit our our farm.  So they wanted us to kick their brother out onto the streets of Houston.  We refused, and we became very isolated from the rest of our family.

Our son died last February of liver failure.  I don't think I could have lived with myself if we had done as the rest of the family had wanted.


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## Cookie (Dec 12, 2014)

My son is on disability for depression and lives on his own.  But he can be quite dysfunctional because of sleep problems and agoraphobia and can't do things like shopping for food and cleaning up his place, so things can get out of hand.  I try to help him by buying food for him when I can. He has a friend who also does this.  Sometimes I help him clean up, but it's really too much for me most of the time and I find the situation very stressful, especially when he snarks at me if I make any suggestions.  He does try as best he can, and when he has good days, we enjoy good visits.  

But I can't stop worrying about him and I sympathize with you about your son's situation. He sounds like he needs a lot of emotional support for his addiction.  I have gone very far for my son in the past, being there for him when he needed me, with a home, food and money and could never do the 'tough love' thing either. I  sometimes forget that he has a depressive illness and think that he's just being difficult or obstinate.  That's when things get worse for me.

I once had a relationship with an alcoholic and of course it didn't work out. But the person would stop drinking for longer periods of time mainly because of things like losing his driver's license or getting heart trouble.  He wouldn't go to AA because of the religious connotations (higher power) and hated being labeled an alcoholic.  He couldn't admit that he had a disease called alcoholism and refused to get help, even psychological counseling. I had to step away.  But one can't step away from one's own child - they need all the help we can give them, by being there for them and offering love and compassion and understanding.  I think your doing the right thing by being available for him.


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## Ina (Dec 12, 2014)

Sea, Our area VA does have retreats for substance abusers.  They have year round living quarter as well.  Our son was in it for a year, and on their advice he asked us if he could come home to us.  Even though our son still had substance abuse problems, he brought a lot of love and care to our lonely lives.


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## AprilT (Dec 12, 2014)

QS, I am so sorry you and your family are faced with this issue, I don't know what the answer is either.  My brother and I walked different paths in life, we were separated as kids, but, I did see him when he first started in that path I was visiting my mother and he stopped by, I was shattered to see someone I didn't know/ he was disheveled and jittery; I was around 11 or 12 at the time. I was devastated it took me a very long time to recover from the experience; many days I spent in tears feeling helpless because even though, I wasn't the adult, I felt like I needed to help him in some way; during that visit I had even given him my allowance, thinking I was helping him in some small way, duh me. I'm happy and sad to say though, that years later, he cleaned up his life and was doing very well in all things, unfortunately, a few years later, the drugs  from years prior had already done too much damage and he died from illness related to the damages of the drug use.  But, I do have the good memories of several very wonderful years where he lived a happy life..

For the most part, after my brother and dealing with others, there after, I've usually had a pretty cold approach to dealing with anyone that was using drugs, which was, I'm not dealing with you, stop, get help, or we have nothing to do with each other. No excuses.  Basically, I just saw too much damage to the families and if a person was too far into the alcoholism or drug culture, they were no longer the person you once knew and some people you just can't do anything for except sink with them. That's not every case, unfortunately it is the case more often than not.  But each person has to do what feels right for them in these situations. I'm of the camp, I will lead you to the water, may even dip your head for a bit, but, I'm not going to hold it there indefinitely by force.

In Florida, I've seen a number of people Baker Act their adult children sometimes it helped, but only if, in the long run, the person truly wanted to be helped.  One of the people I watched go through this had become a good friend, she Baker Acked her son more than once, never worked, it was very sad to watch her chaotic life chasing him down time and time again over one or another situation trying to save him. In the end losing her own livelihood over his struggles. It was a horror to watch and no telling her it was time to cut the cord even when she lost everything. I understand that kine of love and putting up with it to a degree, but, sometimes in some instances enough is enough and you just have to know, that your child is already gone.  I'm not saying that is the case here, but, sometimes that just the cold truth, but if taking everyone else down in the process seems heroic or best for ones own soul to heck with the rest of the children or husband, so be it.  

Baker Act Law

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2012/rpt/2012-R-0536.htm


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## QuickSilver (Dec 12, 2014)

Thanks to all of you for sharing your stories.  My son also has problems other than alcohol.  He has been diagnosed with several illnesses .  He has been treated as bipolar, and as having AADHD.. and also OCD.  He has been on and off meds, but none seem to help and no diagnosis seems to fit.  I believe that alcohol is a way for him to self medicate, but now he is a full blown addict.   He is in a major VA hospital campus and the do have longer term programs.  They have said that he may have more options because of the fact that he now has Medicaid in addition to the VA..  He is scheduled to be discharged from the lock psych unit on Monday and will begin a three week intensive program.  He's done that before... came home.... was ok for a while and then quickly relapsed.  So that is no longer an option.  I just don't know what is going to happen.


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## Blaze Duskdreamer (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear you're going through this.  It can be tough.

My daughter is depressive and bi-polar indicated.  On the surface, she is a wonderful daughter and often is in all truth but can be a problem.  She all too often boomerangs back to me and she is now about to turn 32 and has an 11yo son.  It's not as bad as it was in the past though she recently boomeranged back and I was stressed to the max when her live-in gf (daughter's bi but that doesn't bother me) fell off the wagon and grew abusive and she and grandson fled the house.  I grow tired and it's been much, much worse in the past.  To the point where I would have done the tough love thing and everyone was advising me to if not for the grandson.  I couldn't kick him to the curb with her and his father was obviously not interested in picking up the pieces so I abided.  Sometimes I'm glad and sometimes I -- will, I can't say regret it because of the grandson -- but feel that it would have been better if I had for her and me both.  She would have been forced to grow up and make it on her own and she can still sometimes think of me as that safety net.  Currently, gf has realized she can't drink at all and they have reunited which I'm less than thrilled about but my daughter has to live her life and make her own decisions.  What I am happy about is that she has realized that she can't just go on draining me.  She is leaving her things in storage instead of moving them back into gf's home and is saving money so she can get her own place if gf does not keep her promises or even if she just drinks.  She did stay at a shelter while grandson stayed with me for a bit and it made her realize how fortunate she was but she is thinking much more realistically.  Finally.

There are no easy answers.  You are going to have to read this day to day and continually ask yourself am I helping him or just enabling his self-destructive behavior?  It is something to be considered because enabling them can actually do more harm than good.  Sometimes, though it's horrifying to think of, they have to hit rock bottom before they can climb out of it.  They have to be forced to face what they are doing to themselves and those they love.  Because even though they rage about you when you interfere with the behavior, they do love you.  I don't have any answers for you.  You are going to have to weigh these factors and decide do I just keep keeping on or is it time to intervene and lay down the law, you either get help or you leave.  This simply cannot go on as is.  It kinds of sounds like that that is where you are with him.  

My only suggestion is that rather than letting him come home if he falls to the street you tell him you will be there for him but he has to go back into rehab until he gets it right, that you cannot enable his slowly killing himself with substance abuse.  It will probably help you to be strong to remember that and also remember that he has a lot of hard work to do on himself that can only be done by him.  You cannot make him better; he has to do that for himself.


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## oldman (Dec 22, 2014)

As I have said in the past, I counsel drug addicts and also lecture on the subject of addiction at churches, schools, hospitals, rehabs, prisons and also one on one. I received my accreditation from Penn State. I am not an Addictionologist. (A person needs a degree in medicine to have that title.) As all of you can tell by reading these stories that drugs and alcohol are still a huge issue for many families today. Ina, I am sorry for your loss and anyone else that has lost a loved one to these maladies. Mrs. Robinson, you are very fortunate that your son, I believe it is, was able to stay clean even after incarceration and getting clean while doing the time. It is a fact that forced rehab doe not normally guarantee long term success. In fact, most addicts and alcoholics that have spent time in prisons, generally, will pick up almost immediately where they left off after they are released. 

I do not have a lot of experience with alcoholics, even though addiction is addiction, whether it be drugs or alcohol. The difference between the two illnesses are similar, but each have their own special recovery methods. Some addictionologists through their own experiences that have treated both diseases report that they find alcoholics to be more easy to treat than drug addicts. I can't agree or disagree with that. I just don't know. I do know from facts printed by the Federal Substance and Abuse Agency of the H&W Department that both have a high rate of relapse. 

Both programs, AA and NA are great for alcoholics and drug addicts to help the abuser to get started on the road to recovery. Most people would be surprised at the number of participants in these groups that are non-believers, even though God is mentioned quite frequently in the 12-step program. It is really all about the desire to make a 100% commitment to quit. I will add this; most alcoholics and addicts that I have spoken to have told me that they have wanted to quit for a long time, but were scared to death of the withdrawals that they would have to go through, so to avoid the consequences of w/d's, they decided to stay on their drug of choice. The program that I present is not about scaring people to get them to quit, but more about educating them and showing them that w/ding is not as bad as people have made it out to be . Today, we have other 'drugs' to help with the w/d's. Yes, most people will get sick for a short time, but like I tell my audiences, "Aren't you sick now? Do you not go into panic mode and suffer severely when you can't get that fix or drink?" There is nothing worse for an addict then when he cannot get a fix. They will lie, cheat, steal, or whatever is necessary to get that poison into their body. Doctor and hospital shopping is a regular thing among addicts. One of three things normally happen to most addicts; they end up in prison, die or go to rehab. That's the truth. 

Most clinics that host addicts have what is called IOP, which stands for Intensive Outpatient Program. As it states, Outpatient, does not necessarily mean that the patient will be detoxed and released and told to come back for treatments. Most in-house facilities will detox their patients and then put them in the IOP program and continue to house them, so they may be monitored and kept away from the availability of their problem source. It is a 28-day program and has been very effective. Have you ever seen the movie with Sandra Bullock called, "28 Days?" It is about as real as Hollywood can get with this subject.

I have often thought about putting my program on a blog for others to read, but there are already several available. One last thing; I know as well as anyone from speaking with families that have an alcoholic or addict in the family that it is tremendously difficult to watch your loved one to sink into despair and self destructiveness. We all want what is best for our children, no matter what their age is. This thing called "tough love" sounds good and maybe works for a few, but the best way to full recovery is by getting the abuser professional help and guiding them down that road to recovery by being supportive. We never look at not being successful with recovery the first time as a failure. It's like when we learned to ride a bicycle. How many did not fall off the first few times we tried to ride, only to get up, dust ourselves off and get back on. This is a good analogy of how recovery is. The first time in recovery we can hope for the best, but should not expect success. It may take a few times before it all comes together, but success will happen, if the addict gets back on that bicycle. 

Good luck to all.


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## QuickSilver (Dec 22, 2014)

Thanks oldman.  My son is currently halfway through a 28 day program.  Following completion, he will be going into a long term recovery program provided by the VA.  He will be working for the VA and will be provided a room..  IF he is accepted.. so I am hopeful.  I am supportive and will help him all I can... however I remain firm in my conviction that he cannot return to my home.  At least not until he has proven he can stay sober long term.. and has full time employment.. and is handling his own affairs.   He accepts this and has stayed in touch.   I believe he understands how harmful it was for both of us living in our co-dependency.  I also am seeking private counseling to deal with the situation.   All I can say is that I am cautiously optimistic.  This has been a long road, with many disappointments.. so cautious optimism is all I can muster at this point.


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## AprilT (Dec 22, 2014)

QS, sounds like you are doing the smart thing, often times that little, "tough love" saying gets misused; its more often just about what you said, not becoming co-dependant, not so much turning your back.  You can be supportive without being a crutch.  As I said, you can't do it for these grown people, they have to want to do it.  You can show them the way and be there to see them through it as many times as need be, but, you shouldn't have to sacrifice your entire sanity in the process.  And, note, they say in some cases it "may or can mean."

Good for you for understanding how unhealthy the whole co-dependency of the situation was for you and your family.  Good call and I wish the best for your son, you and your family.  What will or won't work will, in the long run be up to the person with the addiction, it is of course very helpful if they have support, but many successful people that kick such habits do it without the support of a family member or friend other than those in treatment themselves.  

https://www.seniorforums.com/showthread.php/10510-Adult-Children?p=175819#post175819

This came from the article about tough love, it is in no way what necessarily works, just what tough love can mean to some that use the term.

*Using Tough Love When Dealing with Addicts*

Employing tough love with an addict involves:
* No longer allowing the addict to manipulate those who love them.
* It may involve giving the substance abuser an ultimatum – for example, either they get help or they stay away.
* It means making decisions and sticking to them no matter how much the addict pleads or cajoles.
* In some cases it can mean breaking off all contact with the addict.
* Refusing to enable the addict in any way. This means ensuring that they are not spared the consequences of their actions.
* It can often mean cutting the purse strings – this means no longer giving or lending any financial assistance.
* Sometimes an intervention can be used to attempt to coerce the individual into getting help for their addiction. This usually involves family and friends getting together to confront the addict – the power of numbers can make a difference.


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## QuickSilver (Dec 22, 2014)

It makes for a really depressing Holiday though..  Not much in the mood for joy and good cheer.


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## AprilT (Dec 22, 2014)

Well, find some happiness in knowing you do have some family to be with this holiday season even if it is just one some other body unlike so many others of us.  But best of all know that you have stood strong in doing what is best for your son and he's at least making an effort and not all is lost.


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## QuickSilver (Dec 22, 2014)

I am looking for the joy in my Grandchilren's eyes..  when they come to my house Christmas eve..  That is where I will find it.


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## AprilT (Dec 22, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I am looking for the joy in my Grandchilren's eyes..  when they come to my house Christmas eve..  That is where I will find it.




:thumbsup: Best kind of joy when they're still little ones.


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## Blaze Duskdreamer (Dec 22, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Thanks oldman.  My son is currently halfway through a 28 day program.  Following completion, he will be going into a long term recovery program provided by the VA.  He will be working for the VA and will be provided a room..  IF he is accepted.. so I am hopeful.  I am supportive and will help him all I can... however I remain firm in my conviction that he cannot return to my home.  At least not until he has proven he can stay sober long term.. and has full time employment.. and is handling his own affairs.   He accepts this and has stayed in touch.   I believe he understands how harmful it was for both of us living in our co-dependency.  I also am seeking private counseling to deal with the situation.   All I can say is that I am cautiously optimistic.  This has been a long road, with many disappointments.. so cautious optimism is all I can muster at this point.



I am so glad to hear this.  I hope it turns out for the best and he will beat this thing.  At least, he's taking the initial step and that's something.



QuickSilver said:


> I am looking for the joy in my Grandchilren's eyes..  when they come to my house Christmas eve..  That is where I will find it.



Keeps you going.  Have to live for those little things that really are the biggest/best things in life.


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## Butterfly (Dec 23, 2014)

I have a grand-niece who is a drug user.  Her mother continues to let her come back home.  She (the drug abuser) has caused great damage to the family, she is a master manipulator and a thief as well.  She has stolen both money and property from her mother and other family members.  She lost her own children because of neglect and abuse, and did a stint in prison because of that abuse and neglect; she did time for embezzlement, and now faces time for possession with intent to distribute.  Still, her mother continues to let her back into her home, despite the fact that there are still minor children in the home, and those children (teenagers), especially a brother, are slowly being sucked into the lifestyle.  Daughter comes and goes, drifts in and out of her mother's life, sometimes bringing drug addicted friends/boyfriends with her, expecting an open door -- I think it's a very dangerous situation.

This is NOT helping the drug abusing daughter, it is enabling her to continue her own path of self destruction and drag the rest of her immediate family down with her.  Mother keeps on saying "but she's my DAUGHTER...."   

I've been accused of being an old hard a**, but I believe there is a point where enough is enough and a drug addicted adult child should not be allowed to destroy the rest of the family, and Mother (my niece) needs to cut all ties with her and try to save the other two children before they wind up in the same boat.  Some people just cannot be helped -- daughter has had several opportunities to straighten out her life and she refuses to do so -- she'd rather have the drugs.


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## oldman (Dec 23, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Thanks oldman.  My son is currently halfway through a 28 day program.  Following completion, he will be going into a long term recovery program provided by the VA.  He will be working for the VA and will be provided a room..  IF he is accepted.. so I am hopeful.  I am supportive and will help him all I can... however I remain firm in my conviction that he cannot return to my home.  At least not until he has proven he can stay sober long term.. and has full time employment.. and is handling his own affairs.   He accepts this and has stayed in touch.   I believe he understands how harmful it was for both of us living in our co-dependency.  I also am seeking private counseling to deal with the situation.   All I can say is that I am cautiously optimistic.  This has been a long road, with many disappointments.. so cautious optimism is all I can muster at this point.



I was unaware that your son and you also were co-dependents. This makes it doubly hard for an addict to recover. Anytime a dual diagnosis is found to be present, that is; an addiction and mental illness, this requires special handling by professionals that were trained to treat those with a dual diagnosis and there are such people out there that do deal with addicts that have a dual diagnosis. It depends on how deep he is into his addiction, but no matter, he has the proverbial, "Tough row to hoe." 

When I counsel and I learn that an addict has a dual diagnosis, I refer them to a professional in the area where I am counselling. This is something that is long term and only a professional trained in this area can help. This is one of my favorite sites that does a good job of explaining what is a dual diagnosis. http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Se...aggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=54&ContentID=23049 I attended many of John Bradshaw's lectures on Codependency. He is great and there are others with many books available at the library on this issue. I think I heard someone say one time that half of all Americans have some form of codependency. Amazing, huh?


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## Jackie22 (Dec 23, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Thanks oldman.  My son is currently halfway through a 28 day program.  Following completion, he will be going into a long term recovery program provided by the VA.  He will be working for the VA and will be provided a room..  IF he is accepted.. so I am hopeful.  I am supportive and will help him all I can... however I remain firm in my conviction that he cannot return to my home.  At least not until he has proven he can stay sober long term.. and has full time employment.. and is handling his own affairs.   He accepts this and has stayed in touch.   I believe he understands how harmful it was for both of us living in our co-dependency.  I also am seeking private counseling to deal with the situation.   All I can say is that I am cautiously optimistic.  This has been a long road, with many disappointments.. so cautious optimism is all I can muster at this point.



My best wishes for you with this QS, I have dealt with a bipolar child for years and understand what you are dealing with, it does take years and you are going in the right direction.  I think there is a little co-dependency in all of us.


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## QuickSilver (Dec 23, 2014)

Thanks Jackie.... It's kind of hard to NOT be co-dependent when you are the mother.  Isn't that the nature of the beast?   I know in my head that I am doing the right thing for him in the long run.. BUT  my heart tells me that I have just made my first born child homeless..... at Christmas.   Of course he's not a child... but that's known only in my head.  Again the ole heart says different.   It's just sad.


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## oakapple (Jan 4, 2015)

QS I am so sorry to hear of your problems [and all others on this forum who have similar stories.]My grandson is autistic and has ADHD and OCD, he is quite intelligent but impulsive and he could easily go astray, so we have fears for him, poor boy and all others like him.We all have to do what we can for our families even though it can be hard at times [even hard ALL the time for some.]They are always our children or grandchildren, no matter how old they are, and in your son's case the drinking is just a symptom of his unhappiness.


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## grannyjo (Jan 10, 2015)

I had the problem of my daughter not only being a drug user,  but an alcoholic as well.  I used to take her phone calls,  which could go on over a 24 hour period, she started threatening me, told me that she would  "get me",   but not now.

I was reduced to unplugging my  phone line, just to get some sleep.

I phoned a local help line, and they referred me to the local Police  Domestic Help officers.

After I talked to them, they visited her house.  Told her that she was  "stalking me",  using a carriage of service to threaten or intimidate a person and that if it continued,  she would be arrested, and very likely jailed.

I've had almost year now of non disturbed sleep and it has been wonderful.  I'm no longer fearful of picking up the phone when it rings.

I know she has problems,  but they shouldn't be mine - she's 48 years old and should have sorted out her own problems by now.


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## Debby (Jan 11, 2015)

I'm sure sorry to hear about the issues that you folks have with your adult children.  When we have our babies, we love them but in the back of our minds is a sort of mommy-cut-off age of 18 (or thereabouts) but then to find that being pushed back and back and back by their circumstances.....must be awful hard for all of you.  You have my sympathy folks.


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## Josiah (Jan 11, 2015)

QS the story of your situation and so many more similar stories from other forum members had profound affect on me last night. Why should such horrible intractable problems be invading the lives of such nice people. I came away with no answer, just an ache in my heart for the anguish you have had to experience and will continue to have to experience. I send you my kindest wishes.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Jan 11, 2015)

You're a good man, Josiah! You don't have to have the answers. It's just nice to know that there are people who really do give a rat's rear about what we go through.


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