# Nothing To Look Forward To



## SifuPhil

A quote from Butterfly in another thread got me to thinking ...



> it's kind of like I used to be right in the great big middle of the  tapestry of life, but have now moved off into the background somehow.



I get this. In fact, I get it so strongly that I've had this feeling for the last 15 years or so. 

For me, part of it is physical. I'm no longer 20 and can't do all the things I used to. Through nobody's fault but my own I've recently been whacked with a few medical problems, which once again I'm not used to, and it has caused me to start slipping off the bright, clean middle of that tapestry.

My choice to cut myself off from the world - another slip toward the edge.

Convincing myself that my days of close relationships are over - hanging onto the fringe, scrabbling, to keep from falling into that dark, wood-floored abyss.

And finally the 2-ton elephant giving me what seems to be the final push - that I have nothing to look forward to. I've had my education, my career, wrote my books, did my partying, made love under a full moon on the beach, got married, had kids, divorced, SCUBA dived, skydived ... I've lived my life, lived longer than my family. I've laughed and I've cried.

What's left? What can I look forward to? Old age? Sitting in a rocking chair or, worse, a hospital, somewhere? What's that? Living off a measly SS hand-out from the government that won't even pay for the cat food?

Have any of you ever had these dark thoughts?


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## chic

That's mourning and self pity talking Phil. Sure on bad days I feel less enthusiastic than on good days. Some people do heal by withdrawal in which case I'd say go for it. But you seem close to real depression. Your life is *not* behind you. It's before you. Everyday presents new challenges, discoveries, joy and conversations. What about contributing to others who are younger and could gain from your experience and expertise? You don't even have to seek out needy people necessarily because the world is full of them and they will probably find you. Be receptive when they do. You'll probably find that you feel better.
Forgive me if you were just joking around. I can never tell when you're being serious or pulling a person's leg.


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## Shalimar

Most of the best humour comes from a place of pain. Just ask John Cleese.


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## SifuPhil

chic said:


> That's mourning and self pity talking Phil.



I was afraid it would come off that way. Mourning, perhaps - I'm currently mourning my past life, like so many others. I normally live in the present, but once in a while the safety brake slips and back I go.

Self-pity? Could be ... I'm too close to the problem to tell.



> Sure on bad days I feel less enthusiastic than on good days. Some people do heal by withdrawal in which case I'd say go for it.



I've been going for it for 15 years but the scenery hasn't changed.



> But you seem close to real depression. Your life is *not* behind you. It's before you. Everyday presents new challenges, discoveries, joy and conversations.



New challenges, yes - dealing with a body that has suddenly gone gimp. Discoveries - that I'm not the man I used to be. Joy? Get outta' here. Conversations are about the only thing left, and those are all virtual.



> What about contributing to others who are younger and could gain from your experience and expertise? You don't even have to seek out needy people necessarily because the world is full of them and they will probably find you. Be receptive when they do. You'll probably find that you feel better.



That was my career - teaching, advising, tutoring, passing on experience and expertise - since I was 18. Been there, done that. Burned out after 30 years. 



> Forgive me if you were just joking around. I can never tell when you're being serious or pulling a person's leg.



No, I understand. My rep here - the one that I myself created - is as the Court Jester. I don't blame you at all for assuming this is just another joke. Maybe I should get a SERIOUS emoticon to use on these rare occasions ...


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## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Most of the best humour comes from a place of pain. Just ask John Cleese.



Never knew his history, other than little quick facts like he attended Cambridge. Have to look into it - thanks.


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## Shalimar

Philly, I have them. It may not show, but my skeletal system is held together by a wish and a prayer. A gift from my past. I can experience joy, laughter, love. But, to be honest, it is inevitable that emotionally speaking, pain is my familiar. Off and on 

through the years I have experienced burnout, it can be crowded in my head with all the dragons in boxes, clamoring for release. Also, my vocation exhausts one from time to time. Some recharge, others do not. My education is never over. I learn 

far more from my clients than they ever learn from me, so too in my non professional life. People Teach me so much, usually without ever realising it. One of my greatest is was a child. Oldest soul I have ever met. Philly, you teach without realising it, 

just by your presence, even online. While you breathe, you will never truly retire. It can be heartwrenching to let go of our healthy selves and accept age related limitations. I certainly hear the clock ticking, and it frightens me, until I let go of the 

woman I was. As for nothing to look forward too, as long as I can laugh, think, play, I can still connect with people. Who knows where that will lead? Death is inevitable, what occurs before that is still malleable. I cannot repeat the joys of my past, but I refuse to believe I cannot open myself to we we ones. I ain't dead yet.


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## IKE

I think about what's coming just around the corner also Phil and it ain't pretty.......it's depressing as hell actually.

Here's just a few things that quickly pop to mind that we have to look forward to:

Dementia....Alzheimer's....Parkinson's....Arthritis....Osteoporosis....Lack of mobility....Falling....Nursing homes....Diapers etc.

I read somewhere that on average if a person makes it to 65 that they can expect another 19.3 years of life......there is a huge difference between just being alive for 19.3 more years and the quality of life during those last years.

I think after you get to a certain point that death is a welcome friend.


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## Shalimar

Oh my computer! Apparently it is becoming incontinent. We we indeed! Lolol. It should have read "I cannot repeat the joys of my past, but I can certainly open myself to new ones."


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## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Philly, I have them. It may not show, but my skeletal system is held together by a wish and a prayer. A gift from my past.



Ah, then you know the feeling.



> I can experience joy, laughter, love.




So can I, still ... but far less frequently. It seems that a black hole is opening near those emotions / actions - slowly sucking them in.



> But, to be honest, it is inevitable that emotionally speaking, pain is my familiar. Off and on through the years I have experienced burnout, it can be crowded in my head with all the dragons in boxes, clamoring for release. Also, my vocation exhausts one from time to time.



You think _your_ head is crowded?!? Mine is starting to feel like someone pumped helium into it! 

As for an exhausting vocation - I totally can empathize. Not only did I spend all those years jumping around like a monkey on meth. forcing my body to do ridiculous things in the name of teaching, but also served as Father Confessor to so many souls. 



> Some recharge, others do not.



My batteries have that white crystalline stuff all over them - they're not recharging properly these days, and it seems that all the vinegar in the world doesn't clean them up. They're ready for the scrap heap. 




> My education is never over. I learn far more from my clients than they ever learn from me, so too in my non professional life. People Teach me so much, usually without ever realising it. One of my greatest is was a child. Oldest soul I have ever met.



I also knew this feeling on many occasions - it was wonderful, yes. 




> Philly, you teach without realising it, just by your presence, even online. While you breathe, you will never truly retire.



Oh, Lord ... let me go, please. I'm tired of teaching - I want to rest. Too much responsibility, too much effort, too much pain. My last remaining student, at least "officially", has been with me for 14 years. He keeps coming back, 3 times a week, even when I've used negative reinforcement methods on him - sometimes brutally. Like a puppy getting kicked he always returns, licking my hand and looking for love of a sort.

I'm not sure how much longer I'll be capable of giving it, and that frightens me. 



> It can be heartwrenching to let go of our healthy selves and accept age related limitations. I certainly hear the clock ticking, and it frightens me, until I let go of the woman I was.



I know that change is inevitable - until now I had no qualms with that. But so much of my life and my career were wrapped up in being physically superior, only to have it all pulled away in a heartbeat, is difficult to accept. Like one of those faithful who are "healed" by the televangelist, I can dance around for a minute, but when the spotlight is shut down I still fall on my ass. 



> As for nothing to look forward too, as long as I can laugh, think, play, I can still connect with people. Who knows where that will lead? Death is inevitable, what occurs before that is still malleable. I cannot repeat the joys of my past, but I refuse to believe I cannot open myself to we we ones. I ain't dead yet.



And maybe there is the big difference between me and "normal" people like you - you have _hope_; I do not. Hope needs fuel, a target - all of my ducks have flown away. Religion doesn't do it for me, nor do the ra-ra motivational speakers with their perfect grooming, Calvin Klein suits and tricky word games. Hope to me is like a fart in a tornado - it is rarely seen and never touched.


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## SifuPhil

IKE said:


> I think about what's coming just around the corner also Phil and it ain't pretty.......it's depressing as hell actually.
> 
> Here's just a few things that quickly pop to mind that we have to look forward to:
> 
> Dementia....Alzheimer's....Parkinson's....Arthritis....Osteoporosis....Lack of mobility....Falling....Nursing homes....Diapers etc.
> 
> I read somewhere that on average if a person makes it to 65 that they can expect another 19.3 years of life......there is a huge difference between just being alive for 19.3 more years and the quality of life during those last years.
> 
> I think after you get to a certain point that death is a welcome friend.



Exactly, Ike. Like the guys in the 'hood say, "You smell me". 

Oh, man, another 19 years of this crap? :jaded:


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## Shalimar

Normal, me? Hahahahahhahahahaha. Philly people with my background are NEVER normal. I have a PHD in abnormal. Closest I ever got was watching my kids grow up. Hope? That has Often been in short supply. Stubbornness not to let the bas***** win,  

carried me through most of my  incarcerations in the pit. I live with the probability that as I age, the dragons will break free, should that happen, I am toast. But it hasn't happened yet, and if I must, I will sing and dance on the edge rather than give up. Who knows what may happen?


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## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Normal, me? Hahahahahhahahahaha. Philly people with my background are NEVER normal. I have a PHD in abnormal. Closest I ever got was watching my kids grow up.



Well, perhaps "normal" wasn't the proper term to use in _your_ case, I know ...  ... still I wanted to use you as my example, as I know you would flog me only a little bit. 




> Hope? That has Often been in short supply.



So it's a universal problem? 



> Stubbornness not to let the bas***** win,  carried me through most of my  incarcerations in the pit.



Despite what many of my (former) acquaintances say of me, stubbornness can be a blessing. Thank you for verifying that. 



> I live with the probability that as I age, the dragons will break free, should that happen, I am toast. But it hasn't happened yet, and if I must, I will sing and dance on the edge rather than give up. Who knows what may happen?



Back in elementary school we used to have "Air raid practice". At the time, the big goblin was the atomic bomb being dropped upon us by those naughty Russkies. So, every once in a while - monthly, I seem to recall - the sirens would go off during class. What did we do?

We marched down to the basement, leaned against the wall and clasped our hands over our necks. 

All but me, that is.

I stood in the middle of the corridor, spread my hands wide, looked upward and chanted "I've got it! I've got it!"

There was some talk about placing me in the "Special" class but somehow that never happened.


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## Shalimar

HaHaHaHaHa! Shall we dance? Or would you rather sing?


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## IKE

SifuPhil said:


> Exactly, Ike. Like the guys in the 'hood say, "You smell me".
> 
> Oh, man, another 19 years of this crap? :jaded:



I'm picking up what you're laying down brother.

I only hope that when I get to the point where 'I Feel' I've had enough of this crap that I still have the physical and mental capabilities to opt out on my own as opposed to just waiting for it to happen.


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## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> HaHaHaHaHa! Shall we dance? Or would you rather sing?



I always enjoyed playing the little plastic flutes they gave us (actually, Mom had to pay for) in grade school called the Flutophone.



Imagine a harried music instructor trying to get 25 kids to hit the same notes at the same time with this lethal weapon. It sounded like a bunch of cats on fire sliding down a chalkboard.


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## SifuPhil

IKE said:


> I'm picking up what you're laying down brother.
> 
> I only hope that when I get to the point where 'I Feel' I've had enough of this crap that I still have the physical and mental capabilities to opt out on my own as opposed to just waiting for it to happen.



Exactly. My brother chose that path and although it was painful to process, I know it was the best way. I just have nightmares about being kept from doing it.


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## Shalimar

I wonder if they are similar to what Canadians call recorders?


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## Shalimar

I think ending one's life when the quality no longer exists, is a dignified exit. I certainly plan on riding out on a pill if and when I am too old and decrepit to smile at the sky.


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## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> I wonder if they are similar to what Canadians call recorders?



I think they're very close, although ours were cheap plastic and cost like $2. Recorders I've always seen as beautiful, hand-crafted instruments. With the Flutophones, after playing them for a month you could start to nibble on the mouthpiece and it would come apart in your mouth. 

At least, that's what *I *did ... again, talk of "Special" class was rampant.


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## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> I think ending one's life when the quality no longer exists, is a dignified exit. I certainly plan on riding out on a pill if and when I am too old and decrepit to smile at the sky.



Beautifully put.

Although with pills, with my luck the only ones I'd have on hand would be Flintstones Gummy Dinosaur vitamins.


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## Shalimar

Hey Philly, at least you'd be a healthy stiff!


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## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Hey Philly, at least you'd be a healthy stiff!



LOL - yeah, my final gift to the world.

"Here lies Philly
You won't catch a whiff
He OD'd on Gummys
A healthy-type stiff"


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## Shalimar

Good night sweet Phil
Who took a pill,
And with a stiffening smile
Said, thanks fer the swill!


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## Underock1

We may all be "seniors" on here, but some of us are a lot more senior than others. Thus, differing view points about whether life is "over" or not. If you're in your early sixties and in good physical shape, sure, go for it. Take up bike riding. Try on-line dating. At 83, having lost my wife and younger son in the last year and a half, my life may not be "over" but it will never be the same. Not interested in "moving on". I don't sit around crying all day. There are things that occupy my mind and get me through the day, but I've had enough. If I don't wake up tomorrow,that would be no tragedy.


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## SifuPhil

Here lies Phil
He was supposed to live to 97
And be shot by a jealous husband


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## SifuPhil

Underock1 said:


> We may all be "seniors" on here, but some of us are a lot more senior than others. Thus, differing view points about whether life is "over" or not. If you're in your early sixties and in good physical shape, sure, go for it. Take up bike riding. Try on-line dating. At 83, having lost my wife and younger son in the last year and a half, my life may not be "over" but it will never be the same. Not interested in "moving on". I don't sit around crying all day. There are things that occupy my mind and get me through the day, but I've had enough. If I don't wake up tomorrow,that would be no tragedy.



You have my respect, both for the losses you've experienced and your age - you make me feel like a puppy at 57. Maybe I just kept my foot to the floor too long in too many ways, or maybe I should just shut my mouth and quit whining.

Thanks, Rock.


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## Underock1

Shalimar said:


> I think ending one's life when the quality no longer exists, is a dignified exit. I certainly plan on riding out on a pill if and when I am too old and decrepit to smile at the sky.



Can you spare a pill for a friend?


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## QuickSilver

I've sat and thought about the fact that all the major milestones in my life are over..  I went to college.. started a career.. got married.. had kids...became a grandma..... now I am retiring soon.     Then what?   No more big milestones... perhaps nothing major to look forward to..   So I anticipate looking forward to minor things.  Celebrating a holiday or a birthday..   Having dinner with friends..... going shopping.... getting a new hair do.... a new color nail polish....  Helping out at my local shelter..  perfecting my garden..  nothing major.. but very minor things do give satisfaction and peace..   I guess I'm not up to anything really "major" anyway.. just quiet happy days..


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## SifuPhil

That would be an interesting thread here - "_Pharma-Suicide: Which Ones, How Many and When_"

Unfortunately it would probably offend a lot of people and get Matrix into trouble, so ...


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## SifuPhil

QuickSilver said:


> I've sat and thought about the fact that all the major milestones in my life are over..  I went to college.. started a career.. got married.. had kids...became a grandma..... now I am retiring soon.     Then what?   No more big milestones... perhaps nothing major to look forward to..   So I anticipate looking forward to minor things.  Celebrating a holiday of a birthday..   Having dinner with friends..... going shopping.... getting a new hair do.... a new color nail polish....  Helping out at my local shelter..  perfecting my garden..  nothing major.. but very minor things do give satisfaction and peace..   I guess I'm not up to anything really "major" anyway.. just quiet happy days..



Makes perfect sense, especially to one who has spent his professional life preaching the Taoist Way of minimalism and happiness in small things.

Yet, I rage that I never did anything ... big. My name won't be remembered.


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## Underock1

SifuPhil said:


> You have my respect, both for the losses you've experienced and your age - you make me feel like a puppy at 57. Maybe I just kept my foot to the floor too long in too many ways, or maybe I should just shut my mouth and quit whining.
> 
> Thanks, Rock.


Wow, Phil! You're only 57! You look _much _older. :rofl:  Just kidding. Don't respect me for my age. All it took was dumb luck.
If some one asked me the secret to living this long, I would say "Look both ways before crossing the street."


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## SifuPhil

Underock1 said:


> Wow, Phil! You're only 57! You look _much _older. :rofl:  Just kidding. Don't respect me for my age. All it took was dumb luck.
> If some one asked me the secret to living this long, I would say "Look both ways before crossing the street."



LOL - like that commercial - "You don't look a day over 70!" layful:

I've been told many times that I have an "old soul" - I guess the body is finally catching up. 

"Dumb luck" ... maybe, but I suspect you had more than a little to do with it.


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## Pappy

Underock. I did look both ways, up and down, and I still got hit with the darn car. Anyway, I do believe "dumb luck" has a lot to do with it. I have treated my body terrible over the years, and I'm still managing to run on about 5 cylinders. Just turned 78 and a lot of things hurt but nothing I can't handle right now. We all have to keep on trucking.


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## QuickSilver

SifuPhil said:


> Makes perfect sense, especially to one who has spent his professional life preaching the Taoist Way of minimalism and happiness in small things.
> 
> Yet, I rage that I never did anything ... big. My name won't be remembered.



Think of the number of people on this earth.. The ones living and the ones dead...  How many billions?  Out of those billions... Just how many names and lives are remembered.... a few thousand?   Only a very tiny sliver of people and lives are remembered.

I don't think I would really be up to anything major anyway..  I'm very content winding down and enjoying the moment.


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## Underock1

SifuPhil said:


> Makes perfect sense, especially to one who has spent his professional life preaching the Taoist Way of minimalism and happiness in small things.
> 
> Yet, I rage that I never did anything ... big. My name won't be remembered.



Minimalism and happiness in small things are at the core of who I am. I confess to never having been interested in "achieving" anything other than caring for my wife and raising happy kids. I was fortunate enough to be able to do that.
Why would anyone want to be remembered by people who never knew them? There isn't a single famous person, regardless of their accomplishments who after death hasn't been accused of all sorts of horrible deeds. No monuments to me for someone's dog to piss on.


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## Shalimar

I think I have comforted some, loved some, laughed and cried with some. It is enough. Everything else is gravy.


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## Underock1

Pappy said:


> Underock. I did look both ways, up and down, and I still got hit with the darn car. Anyway, I do believe "dumb luck" has a lot to do with it. I have treated my body terrible over the years, and I'm still managing to run on about 5 cylinders. Just turned 78 and a lot of things hurt but nothing I can't handle right now. We all have to keep on trucking.



I hear you, Pappy. Its just a matter of keeping on keeping on. People always wonder how you deal with this stuff.
You don't get a choice. That's how!


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## QuickSilver

I don't believe I would ever actively seek to end my life...  I'll just hang around to see how it all ends.   It would be like walking out of a theater before the final scene..


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## Underock1

QuickSilver said:


> I don't believe I would ever actively seek to end my life...  I'll just hang around to see how it all ends.   It would be like walking out of a theater before the final scene..



Romeo and Juliet.


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## AZ Jim

Underock1 said:


> We may all be "seniors" on here, but some of us are a lot more senior than others. Thus, differing view points about whether life is "over" or not. If you're in your early sixties and in good physical shape, sure, go for it. Take up bike riding. Try on-line dating. At 83, having lost my wife and younger son in the last year and a half, my life may not be "over" but it will never be the same. Not interested in "moving on". I don't sit around crying all day. There are things that occupy my mind and get me through the day, but I've had enough. If I don't wake up tomorrow,that would be no tragedy.



I feel much the same.  I look at the world around me and wonder what kind of life my Great Grandkids will have, this world is not a kind place anymore.  I just put in my time now.


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## SeaBreeze

IKE said:


> I think about what's coming just around the corner also Phil and it ain't pretty.......it's depressing as hell actually.
> Here's just a few things that quickly pop to mind that we have to look forward to:
> Dementia....Alzheimer's....Parkinson's....Arthritis....Osteoporosis....Lack of mobility....Falling....Nursing homes....Diapers etc.
> I think after you get to a certain point that death is a welcome friend.



I agree Ike, many of us think about all the things we may go through with old age, I think Alzheimer's scares me the most, because then I won't know anything about who I am, where I am, or what anything's about.  Lost an aunt to that years ago, they put her in a nursing home, nobody could handle her privately.

We moved my husband's parents in with us when they were in their eighties, both in poor health and he had a major stroke that left him half paralyzed, bedridden, unable to speak or take care of himself.  We moved our stuff into the basement and gave them run of the main floor, they both had wheelchairs, but he had to be placed into his by me or hubby.  

My mother in law was very depressed and negative, she bought the book Final Exit and planned to put an end to her life when ready with pills mixed in yogurt and a trash bag over her head to assure it would work as the book recommended.  Luckily she never had to commit suicide, she passed in her sleep a couple of weeks after we lost him on Christmas Day.  She had nothing else to live for and was ready to go for a long time, I believe she just wished to be done with this life and her wish was granted.  Both of them finally found their peace.

The one thing I don't want is to be put in a nursing home, no kids or family around us, and if one of us goes, the other's on their own.  So yes, if I was is such poor health or in so much pain that I would want to end my life, I would definitely do it, either with a Dr. Kevorkian type or on my own.  Some pills, alcohol, maybe a running car in the garage combo should do it.  Or, like some have done, go off into the mountains in winter and freeze to death, not too painful and the wild animals will take care of the remains.



Underock1 said:


> Minimalism and happiness in small things are at the core of who I am. I confess to never having been interested in "achieving" anything other than caring for my wife and raising happy kids. I was fortunate enough to be able to do that.
> Why would anyone want to be remembered by people who never knew them? There isn't a single famous person, regardless of their accomplishments who after death hasn't been accused of all sorts of horrible deeds. No monuments to me for someone's dog to piss on.



Simple life for me too Underock, we're only in our 60s, and in pretty good health, so getting outdoors and enjoying the animals, trees, mountains and skies does it for me.  I started working after high school, and worked blue collar/physical jobs full time and overtime all my life, that may be why I'm in decent shape now.  Been very content with life so far, retirement was my main goal and I'm here.  I've treated others the way I'd like to be treated, don't need to be held on a pedestal for anything where strangers can remember me.

_Phil_, I know your health has a lot to do with the way you're feeling now...hugs.  What I recommend is always taking a look at the big picture and others around you, that's one way to put things in perspective and be happy for what you've got.  All I need is to see a mother, like I did recently, in a Costco store.  She was pushing her thin and contorted child who had serious disabilities, in a special strangely shaped wheelchair, because he wouldn't have even been able to sit in a regular one.  When I see things like this it makes me want to cry (and sometimes I do), and I thank my lucky stars for the life I have.

Attitude is everything, don't let your mind sink to the cellar, and your body will thank you for it. :love_heart:


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## jujube

SifuPhil said:


> I always enjoyed playing the little plastic flutes they gave us (actually, Mom had to pay for) in grade school called the Flutophone.
> 
> View attachment 24552
> 
> Imagine a harried music instructor trying to get 25 kids to hit the same notes at the same time with this lethal weapon. It sounded like a bunch of cats on fire sliding down a chalkboard.



We had an orchestra in elementary school with those, except they were black and called "Tune-a-Flutes".  The music teacher kept them in a big bucket of disinfectant and would fish one out, shake it off and hand it to the student.  I'll remember the taste of that disinfectant til my dying day.  I probably have brain damage from it.....


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## jujube

I get depressed occasionally thinking about the future.  

I compare the differences between our two mothers.  The Spousal Equivalent's mother is 92, essentially blind, has bad hearing, terrible arthritis and a feeding tube (she can't swallow).  She says she wants to die, but can't let go.  Her life is very narrow with frequent hospitalizations and lots of doctor visits.  She lives with one of her sons and mourns having to give up her house.  My mother, on the other hand, just turned 90 and has a social life that would put me in the graveyard.  She lives alone, is active in her church, drives (excellent eyesight and reflexes), and plays piano at two restaurants, a hospital, a senior center and a nursing home.  Her last boyfriend died a few years ago and she says she's not interested in another man, but I'll bet if the right one comes along.....  She plans to live to 100 (I wouldn't bet against 105...)  She's in a bit of pain but takes it in stride and moves on.  

If I could have my mother's life, I'd want to live to 100, too.  If I have to have my sort-of mother-in-law's life, I want those pills ready at a moment's notice.


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## Ina

Phil, I'm not sure what your physical ailments are, but I do know that physical pain can drive a person to the brink of insanity.  

Then there is the feeling of failure or inadequacy.  When we are young, we have dreams of what we want out of life, and we build images of how we will accomplish these things.  In our youth, we all see how in our 'wisdom' we will make the world see a better way.

Somewhere along the way, our parents stopped teaching us that the world is a harsh place to survive.  Instead they started telling us we could have it all, and since we were the best, we deserved it all.  That is a nice fairy tale, but all of us eventually see through it.  But if we don't remember, or ever figure out, that our parents stories were only for encouragement, many of us end up feeling like failures.  We tend to forget that the 'world' has it's own plans.  There doesn't seem to be much guidance on how to go about growing older with happiness.

I have lived with physical pain since I was seven. Put that with the beliefs I received from My American Indian grandmother and mother, the issue of suicide is different for me.  So of course the first thing I studied in college after all the academic was Horticulture.  There are wild plants that freely grow all around us that can end our lives.  With my health issues, my doctors are more than willing to prescribe heavy narcotics, to the point that I end up throwing away many of them as they get to old.

I admit that in the last two years, I wake in the mornings, and I wait to see if I wish to see the world one more day.  Sometimes it is just little Izzy that I live for, who would love and care for him as I do?  (He actually get beef or pork roast twice a day.)

Now I've realized that if I don't find something to live for, I probably won't.  So I'm going to go find VA vets that I maybe I can be a reason for them to look at one more day.

It does make me wonder why there aren't books to help us learn to see the reasons for continued life.  Yes, I know that sucide is unfair to the ones left behind, but not everyone has someone it would harm.


----------



## TICA

Hi Phil!!!   I haven't been on this forum in ages (maybe a couple of years), but I'm glad you are still here.  From your post, I gather you are having some health issues, so I'm sorry to hear that.   We are about the same age and I've had some issues in the past and have even thought about ending things, but only for a nano second.....   I do know what it is like to wonder "what the hell do I have to live for" and thought long and hard about it.   The truth for me, was that I have lots to live for.   Like you, I have adult children (see I remember the wedding pics you posted of your son).  I learn from them every day - only if it showing me funny web sites that make me laugh.   I have critters - do you still have your cat?

I still have the old camper although it leaks and I haven't got around to doing anything about that - maybe I will, maybe I won't.   

I have your book that I downloaded sitting on my desktop.   You my friend, need to hang around so I can read the next one.   

As an aside, Canada is struggling to get the "right to die with a Dr's assistance" legislation finalized.   I wholeheartedly agree with that and would take advantage in a minute if I was terminal and suffering.

As for getting old - yup, it is happening.   I'm trying to embrace it but become a real B**ch with every new ache.   So be it - can't stop it so will continue on.   Like a previous poster - I'm stubborn and will do what I want to.   Might kill me doing it, but that is my choice.

Take care (feels like writing to a pen pal that I've been out of touch with).


----------



## fureverywhere

You know what I hate? The chestnut "You're only as old as you feel". At 53 I'm a baby on the senior sites. But so much to consider, you actually can feel the weight on your shoulders sometimes. And at the moment things are more or less stable. But hubby has days when he can barely get out of bed. He's never been the most active guy and my Dad at 93 could probably run circles around all of us. But I don't know what I'm supposed to do. At 58 hubby is pretty young too, but the Parkinson's has him moving sooooo veeeerrrrrry sloooooooooowwwwly. I don't know how much longer he'll be able to keep working. It's not like we have savings for retirement. I need to find a job to support us all...

Okay I'm ready to jump. Except I have to keep my dear Callie in dog food


----------



## SifuPhil

Wow - thank you all for your wonderful responses. 

TICA !!!! HI!!! What a pleasant surprise! 

I'll "get back" to all of you in a while - have to get my head straightened out first. layful:


----------



## IKE

SeaBreeze said:


> The one thing I don't want is to be put in a nursing home, no kids or family around us, and if one of us goes, the other's on their own.
> 
> :love_heart:



With us not having any kids, family or close friends for that matter the thought of a nursing home worries me, we've all seen the stories from time to time about the abuse that can and does goes on in those places.

It may sound selfish but trust me it isn't..........I hope mama has to go to a home and passes first because I'd be around to see to it that she was taken care of and not abused.

Then after she's gone I'll do what I feel needs to be done to myself.


----------



## Karen99

It's just amazing waking up every day.  I don't know what's ahead...but I don't live in fear of it.  That would only take away from now..which is where I really live.  Bad things, bad news..well, it's part of life.  It's not always perfect weather.  It's a privilege to get old..to my mind.  So many people never make it. 

I am comfortable with the idea of getting older.  I can't arm myself against bad fortune..I'm old enough to know that..but while I can still enjoy the day...aches and pains be damned..I want to do it.

Phil, I hear you.  It really can be okay, if you make it okay.  You have strengths to draw on.  I wish you well.


----------



## Fern

Twice this week I've heard 50 year olds saying they are old,! 50 is a good time in your life, I worked on the orchard 5-7 days a week until I was  55, sold out and bought an asparagus block, getting up at daybreak in the early Spring & summer to pick the crop before the sun ruined it.
Now I'm 70+ I have no intention of 'lying down' waiting for whatever comes my way. I can still get around  (even though arthritis in knees & hips can be a pain.) Sure I've slowed down, but, while I'm alive,life is for LIVING, ENJOY.


----------



## fureverywhere

Really, all you need is a big soft boy snoring softly and clearing the air with his intestinal fortitude...you can do whatever need be to keep him in kibble...really. My boy is the meaning of my life.


----------



## SifuPhil

Okay, what I'm getting out of all of this (thank you, my teachers!) ...



Keep On Truckin' ... I understand this and even had the bumper-sticker. But it doesn't always work as a motivational phrase for me - I watched my brother take his own life because he couldn't keep going. That changed me. 
Never Made It Big ... as QS said, not many do - I realize that. But as Ina brought up, it was my parents and teachers' fault! Yes! They all told me I could be and do whatever I wanted in life, that I was a boy genius, that I was going places. Well, after you hit the wall a few times you start to wonder. Those big ideas get further and further away until they vanish, leaving you wondering if they were ever really there. 
You Have To Want It ... truer words were never spoken. There's just not much I want anymore. 
50 Is A Good Time In Your Life ... Fern mentioned this and until recently I would have agreed wholeheartedly. Unfortunately we all age differently, and in my case being whacked with some genetic faults pretty much removed the "Good Times" banner. 
Fur, you're actually YOUNGER than me! Huzzah - I've been waiting to lose the "baby of the family" title here! Thank you! 
Tica, I'm enheartened that you remember my son's wedding pics, and that you enjoyed my book. Yes, I have A cat - a new one, actually, and he's a handful. I suppose that keeps me busy ... It's good to see you back on the Forum - I hope you can hang around for a  while! 
Finally, reading all of your replies here several times and hearing of your own trials and tribulations has made me realize I actually don't have it so bad. Perhaps it was partly self-pity; certainly I learned I shouldn't be comparing my present self with my past one. 


I thank you all for taking the time to lift me out of my Boo-Hoo Box - I'll never forget the help you've all given me here, and only hope that I can one day return the favor. 

...

Besides, there's always pepperoni pizza to live for! :drool1:


----------



## SifuPhil

Wow - just came across this site that lists famous people with mental health problems.

... maybe it's a good thing I never struck it big ...


----------



## Underock1

SifuPhil said:


> Wow - just came across this site that lists famous people with mental health problems.
> 
> ... maybe it's a good thing I never struck it big ...



We've _all _got mental health problems. :excited:


----------



## Shalimar

You bet!


----------



## chic

I'm sorry Phil that you're serious and in so much pain of every kind. Would you feel better if you could get rid of the physical pain? You don't have to be a gimp. I'm younger than you, but have been gimpy and pain ridden with arthritis. Yoga balance has helped me regain balance, movement and freedom from pain. 
It could do the same for you. Many people recover from quite serious injuries and disablities this way. Just a thought.


----------



## chic

fureverywhere said:


> Really, all you need is a big soft boy snoring softly and clearing the air with his intestinal fortitude...you can do whatever need be to keep him in kibble...really. My boy is the meaning of my life.



I agree with Fur here about this, that a pet can help lift your spirits, but if you're in financial distress I wouldn't recommend it. These days pets can cost a fortune. It's not like when we were kids. Your call Philly.


----------



## SifuPhil

chic said:


> I'm sorry Phil that you're serious and in so much pain of every kind. Would you feel better if you could get rid of the physical pain? You don't have to be a gimp. I'm younger than you, but have been gimpy and pain ridden with arthritis. Yoga balance has helped me regain balance, movement and freedom from pain.
> 
> It could do the same for you. Many people recover from quite serious injuries and disablities this way. Just a thought.



Well, my career was all about teaching T'ai-Chi after I had learned from one of the best. I also went on to get an OMD (Doctor of Oriental Medicine), which includes herbs, massage, energy work and certification as an acupuncturist.

All of that, for all those years, didn't stop the family inheritance of diabetes. It helps with the physical symptoms - a little - but it doesn't eliminate the root cause.

Sometimes you just have to go with Western medicine, and even that doesn't always do the trick. 



chic said:


> I agree with Fur here about this, that a pet can help lift your spirits, but if you're in financial distress I wouldn't recommend it. These days pets can cost a fortune. It's not like when we were kids. Your call Philly.



Oh, I know! Buying cat food and litter is more expensive than caviar and 5-ply toilet paper! 

I'm not a dog person, usually - I like them well enough and they seem to like me. I've always been a cat person, and there's just not that same kind of bonding, I think - at least for me, at least now. Too much work, too much responsibility, too much sorrow when they pass.


----------



## oldman

Phil-----Later next year, I will be giving up my certification for flying passengers (Gov't says so.). Every time I think about this, I have to change thoughts. I really feel bad about this. Flying has always been a passion for me, not just a job or a paycheck. I have nothing planned after flying. Right now, I am also in your same shoes, what to look forward to? I am not a volunteer person, I don't care for reading on a daily basis and TV bores me to tears, except maybe to sit and watch NCAA athletics or pro football. I just cannot imagine what I'm going to do when flying is taken away from me. No more telephone conversations with other pilots, no more hanging out with the airline guys and exchanging war stories, no more going to social functions with my old crew members, no more sucking in the smell of jet fuel & exhaust, no more climbing into the seat in the cockpit and no more feeling the adrenaline rush of a takeoff. 

Oh, Brother. This is not something that I ever wanted to look forward to.


----------



## Pappy

What a great bunch of folks we have on the forum. Reading them all has given me a little different outlook on a few things. Oldman, I can't imagine the feeling you have for giving up flying when the day comes. The rest of you have helped me as well as Phil, I'm sure. 

Yesterday, I saw where the average age for men to pass on is 78.5. I said to myself, self, you've got 5 months to go. This depressed me a little, but reading your replies to Phil have helped me, too.

Phil, you and I have been friends for quite some time, although we've never met, and I am so glad that things are looking better for you. Pity party all you want, my friend. We'll be there somehow.


----------



## SifuPhil

oldman said:


> Phil-----Later next year, I will be giving up my certification for flying passengers (Gov't says so.). Every time I think about this, I have to change thoughts. I really feel bad about this. Flying has always been a passion for me, not just a job or a paycheck. I have nothing planned after flying. Right now, I am also in your same shoes, what to look forward to? I am not a volunteer person, I don't care for reading on a daily basis and TV bores me to tears, except maybe to sit and watch NCAA athletics or pro football. I just cannot imagine what I'm going to do when flying is taken away from me. No more telephone conversations with other pilots, no more hanging out with the airline guys and exchanging war stories, no more going to social functions with my old crew members, no more sucking in the smell of jet fuel & exhaust, no more climbing into the seat in the cockpit and no more feeling the adrenaline rush of a takeoff.
> 
> Oh, Brother. This is not something that I ever wanted to look forward to.



Oldman, maybe you could find a simulator to play in? I keep a heavy bag around, just to remind me of my glory days. 

I know it'll be rough, my friend, but you'll pull through it.



Pappy said:


> What a great bunch of folks we have on the forum. Reading them all has given me a little different outlook on a few things. Oldman, I can't imagine the feeling you have for giving up flying when the day comes. The rest of you have helped me as well as Phil, I'm sure.
> 
> Yesterday, I saw where the average age for men to pass on is 78.5. I said to myself, self, you've got 5 months to go. This depressed me a little, but reading your replies to Phil have helped me, too.
> 
> Phil, you and I have been friends for quite some time, although we've never met, and I am so glad that things are looking better for you. Pity party all you want, my friend. We'll be there somehow.



Thank you, Pappy! I wish I were living down in your neighborhood - I could get a cool bike like yours and we could ride around, terrorizing the neighbors! nthego:


----------



## Shalimar

For now Philly, you can ride around here and terrorise us!


----------



## jujube

Phil, as Emily Dickinson said so well, "Hope is the thing with feathers."  

You just have to keep it away from the cat.


----------



## Shalimar

Love Emily Dickinson


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> For now Philly, you can ride around here and terrorise us!



Thank you, m'Lady - always nice to have a license to terrorize! 



jujube said:


> Phil, as Emily Dickinson said so well, "Hope is the thing with feathers."
> 
> You just have to keep it away from the cat.



I don't know, Jube - not sure if it's my "look" ...


----------



## Shalimar

Oooh, Philly, my fine feathered friend! Lolololol. Look at your beard and your feathers will fall. LLolololol.


----------



## hollydolly

oldman said:


> Phil-----Later next year, I will be giving up my certification for flying passengers (Gov't says so.). Every time I think about this, I have to change thoughts. I really feel bad about this. Flying has always been a passion for me, not just a job or a paycheck. I have nothing planned after flying. Right now, I am also in your same shoes, what to look forward to? I am not a volunteer person, I don't care for reading on a daily basis and TV bores me to tears, except maybe to sit and watch NCAA athletics or pro football. I just cannot imagine what I'm going to do when flying is taken away from me. No more telephone conversations with other pilots, no more hanging out with the airline guys and exchanging war stories, no more going to social functions with my old crew members, no more sucking in the smell of jet fuel & exhaust, no more climbing into the seat in the cockpit and no more feeling the adrenaline rush of a takeoff.
> 
> Oh, Brother. This is not something that I ever wanted to look forward to.



Oldman, just a thought when you retire from passenger air flights, can you perhaps take up a position as an instructor at a private airfield...even desk based? it would mean you'd still be heavily involved with planes, albeit little private ones..


----------



## Debby

SifuPhil said:


> Exactly, Ike. Like the guys in the 'hood say, "You smell me".
> 
> Oh, man, another 19 years of this crap? :jaded:




Or 24 years and 4 months?  I know the feeling too Phil.  

Which may explain my penchant for 'the sky is falling' news.


----------



## Cookie

Sorry your feeling down Phil, I know, .... part of life, that.  But a good night's sleep, some tasty snacks and maybe some fun entertainment helps me get past it --- or not.  I always tell myself its temporary, as I have seen in the past, things change, including my mood.  Maybe year's end, holidays don't help, especially when we start thinking about how things panned out in life, regrets, disappointments, losses, etc. etc.  Sometimes even a few tears offer some respite.  Then usually duty of some sort calls and I have to get off the couch and deal. Happiness is usually just around the corner.


----------



## SifuPhil

Debby said:


> Or 24 years and 4 months?  I know the feeling too Phil.



My condolences.



> Which may explain my penchant for 'the sky is falling' news.



My usual way of dealing with that kind of news is with black humor, but even that has its limits.



Cookie said:


> Sorry your feeling down Phil, I know, .... part of life, that.  But a good night's sleep, some tasty snacks and maybe some fun entertainment helps me get past it --- or not.  I always tell myself its temporary, as I have seen in the past, things change, including my mood.  Maybe year's end, holidays don't help, especially when we start thinking about how things panned out in life, regrets, disappointments, losses, etc. etc.  Sometimes even a few tears offer some respite.  Then usually duty of some sort calls and I have to get off the couch and deal. Happiness is usually just around the corner.



I like the "tasty snacks" part! :beguiled:

I'm a guy - I'm not allowed to cry. 

Happiness may be just around the corner, but sometimes it seems I've been chained to the lamp-post ...


----------



## Shalimar

Hugs, and masses of fruitcake Philly.


----------



## fureverywhere

Such a day Philly, and you can make me laugh for real, thank you so much!


----------



## Cookie

SifuPhil said:


> Happiness may be just around the corner, but sometimes it seems I've been chained to the lamp-post ...



Well, hell, looks like you need some heavy duty metal cutters or a hack saw.  "When the going gets tough, the tough go shopping"  always works for me --- do you have a Lee Valley over your way?


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Hugs, and masses of fruitcake Philly.



Thank you, dear - they're both helping!



fureverywhere said:


> Such a day Philly, and you can make me laugh for real, thank you so much!



You're very welcome, and thank YOU. 



Cookie said:


> Well, hell, looks like you need some heavy duty metal cutters or a hack saw.  "When the going gets tough, the tough go shopping"  always works for me --- do you have a Lee Valley over your way?



Lee Valley? Is that anything like Harper Valley or Rudy Valley?

No, sorry. The only shopping around these parts is the convenience store and Rhonda Bullwacker down the street - and SHE'S on vacation right now ...


----------



## Cookie

http://www.leevalley.com/us/home.aspx?c=2

Lee Valley is a hardware store extraordinaire ----  I love it and I'm not a handyman.  When my son was going thru a dark depressing time, his one joy was buying tool toys online at this place.  Their catalogue is fun to browse too.   Take a gander.


----------



## SifuPhil

I think in my past life I would have been thrilled with this store!

Unfortunately I've hung up my handyman title. I used to be quite good at it in fact - rehabbed a few houses in my time - but now it's a major project to replace a screw on roomie's glasses. I whine like a spoiled little kid, procrastinate until roomie is blindly falling down the stairs, finally spend a day or two finding a jeweler's screwdriver and MIGHT get the job done in a week or so.


----------



## Cookie

Been there and done that too.  OK then, sometimes wallowing in a little misery is good for the soul, makes you appreciate the good times when they finally roll around. Enjoy it while you've still got it.


----------



## Manatee

With all the things you have experienced, you should have a storehouse of wonderful memories. Get comfy in your rocker and enjoy them. You need to do the best you can with what you have got.

In another 19 years I will be 100.  Then I will be seriously old.


----------



## tnthomas

SifuPhil said:


> A quote from Butterfly in another thread got me to thinking ...
> 
> 
> 
> I get this. In fact, I get it so strongly that I've had this feeling for the last 15 years or so.
> 
> For me, part of it is physical. I'm no longer 20 and can't do all the things I used to. Through nobody's fault but my own I've recently been whacked with a few medical problems, which once again I'm not used to, and it has caused me to start slipping off the bright, clean middle of that tapestry.
> 
> My choice to cut myself off from the world - another slip toward the edge.
> 
> Convincing myself that my days of close relationships are over - hanging onto the fringe, scrabbling, to keep from falling into that dark, wood-floored abyss.
> 
> And finally the 2-ton elephant giving me what seems to be the final push - that I have nothing to look forward to. I've had my education, my career, wrote my books, did my partying, made love under a full moon on the beach, got married, had kids, divorced, SCUBA dived, skydived ... I've lived my life, lived longer than my family. I've laughed and I've cried.
> 
> What's left? What can I look forward to? Old age? Sitting in a rocking chair or, worse, a hospital, somewhere? What's that? Living off a measly SS hand-out from the government that won't even pay for the cat food?
> 
> Have any of you ever had these dark thoughts?



Yes.  I worry about maintaining self-sufficiency and independence, and everything needed to insure that. But, I do get a smile, a laugh here and there, and momentary feelings of joy, mainly when talking to my kids....or actually_ seeing _them in person.

I really never understood "depression", had always heard of it, but didn't sound like it would be something I'd give 2 seconds of thought to.         I do understand depression now, and recognize it's face on the streets....


----------



## imp

Well, after cruising through this thread fairly quickly, here's what I saw;

Philosophical discussion among a group of folks most of whom feared something, and hemmed and hawed about those fears, not a one of them able to provide stout resolve for any of the others' concerns, much less their own, NONE saying "GET A GRIP", "GO FORWARD",  accept the consequences of doing so, DIE AS GRACEFULLY AS POSSIBLE.   imp

EDIT: Easy for one already condemned to preach. Rant makes it easier to accept.    imp


----------



## Shalimar

Wow Imp. I certainly did not get that impression. I saw some folks courageously sharing their pain, fears, and experiences, and honestly attempting to offer help and advice. In this area stiff upper lip philosophy rarely works. Mortality is not a passing 

thing, no pun intended. Lol. We all deal with it differently. "Do not go gently into that good night" works for some, others have 
different coping mechanisms. One size definitely does not fit all. Aging is difficult. I do get that ranting is a coping mechanism also.


----------



## SifuPhil

Manatee said:


> With all the things you have experienced, you should have a storehouse of wonderful memories. Get comfy in your rocker and enjoy them. You need to do the best you can with what you have got.
> 
> In another 19 years I will be 100.  Then I will be seriously old.



Only if you believe so. Like me, now.

I try not to live off my past - when I do so I usually end up feeling sad, and when I look at the clock several hours have evaporated. 



tnthomas said:


> Yes.  I worry about maintaining self-sufficiency and independence, and everything needed to insure that. But, I do get a smile, a laugh here and there, and momentary feelings of joy, mainly when talking to my kids....or actually_ seeing _them in person.
> 
> I really never understood "depression", had always heard of it, but didn't sound like it would be something I'd give 2 seconds of thought to.         I do understand depression now, and recognize it's face on the streets....



I never "believed" in it either - I thought it was just for _other_ people. 

As Gomer would say, "Surprise, surprise". 



imp said:


> Well, after cruising through this thread fairly quickly, here's what I saw;
> 
> Philosophical discussion among a group of folks most of whom feared something, and hemmed and hawed about those fears, not a one of them able to provide stout resolve for any of the others' concerns, much less their own, NONE saying "GET A GRIP", "GO FORWARD",  accept the consequences of doing so, DIE AS GRACEFULLY AS POSSIBLE.   imp
> 
> EDIT: Easy for one already condemned to preach. Rant makes it easier to accept.    imp



Well, that's ... a refreshing viewpoint.  



Shalimar said:


> Wow Imp. I certainly did not get that impression. I saw some folks courageously sharing their pain, fears, and experiences, and honestly attempting to offer help and advice.



That's pretty much what I've seen as well.




> In this area stiff upper lip philosophy rarely works. Mortality is not a passing thing, no pun intended. Lol.



I laughed as well - thank you.



> We all deal with it differently. "Do not go gently into that good night" works for some,



Although Dylan Thomas nailed it nicely, I've always liked Leonardo Da Vinci's dying  words  -



> “I have offended God and mankind because my work didn't reach the quality it should have.”






> ...others have different coping mechanisms. One size definitely does not fit all. Aging is difficult. I do get that ranting is a coping mechanism also.



Unfortunately my coping mechanisms have fled, or at least changed into some bizarre, unrecognizable entity ...


----------



## Shalimar

When I was young, in pain, and completely clueless as to how to handle excruciating loss, an incredibly resilient woman who had her own "vacation condo"  in the pit, said something very simple that still resonates with me today, "first, you cry."


----------



## SifuPhil

I suppose that crying, screaming, hitting things, etc. works for many people as a way of balancing the wrongs they've experienced. I've always been the type - until recently, as this post shows - to, as Imp said, "Get a grip" - never let it out, never let it show; you'll be seen a weak. Swallow the pain.


----------



## Shalimar

Oops, pushed wrong button again. Lol. Rest of above post should read, " sometimes the pain must leak out in order for there to be room for healing to seep in." Not a big answer for sure, but sometimes a beginning. Isolation often  maims  more quickly 

by far than anguish. In the bottom of the pit, feeling a sense of connection with someone else can be a candle in the dark. we need to feel we matter.


----------



## Shalimar

I get it, did it myself. Shut down, turtled up.,hid. But the pain stalked me and found me. Ooh, was there hell to pay. Peeling back the festering  layers of decades of stoicism almost destroyed me. wish I had been able to face it earlier, but I was too 

ashamed and frightened. I don't like feeling weak. I really don't do feeling helpless well. But facing oneself is an incredibly brave thing to do. To let others see who we are even more so. Philly,  I am so impressed with the way you and other members 

have brought reality to this thread. Guts.


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> I get it, did it myself. Shut down, turtled up.,hid. But the pain stalked me and found me. Ooh, was there hell to pay. Peeling back the festering  layers of decades of stoicism almost destroyed me. wish I had been able to face it earlier, but I was too ashamed and frightened. I don't like feeling weak. I really don't do feeling helpless well. But facing oneself is an incredibly brave thing to do. To let others see who we are even more so. Philly,  I am so impressed with the way you and other members have brought reality to this thread. Guts.



Thank you, m'Lady.

They say that bravery is sometimes just lack of common sense in the face of terror ... or pure desperation. I think that, for me, it's a little of both.


----------



## Cookie

Phil, I'll venture again  --- not really to offer a fix --- but it sounds to me like you might be suffering from depression.  

But I wonder if maybe a change might be in order -- lifestyle change, dietary improvements, vitamin supplements (D3 is good for depression, B50 combo too), outings to a nice place even if its not great weather.  Maybe talk to a counselor or upbeat friend.  Try to climb out of that dark pit, even if it means clawing your way out inch by inch.  Most of us have some sort of physical problem we have to live with, but giving up is not an option.


----------



## Shalimar

Cookie, sometimes talking about stuff is a way of processing it while we speak. For some it is a vehicle to reduce feelings of inner pressure and confusion. Hard to climb out of the pit when I have the emotional spins. You are bang on about vitamins etc. Most people underrate the 

importance of nutrition in fighting depression. Stress knocks our bodies out of whack. Extra sleep needed also. I hate pills, but 
will take them short term if insomnia is brutal.


----------



## SifuPhil

Cookie said:


> Phil, I'll venture again  --- not really to offer a fix --- but it sounds to me like you might be suffering from depression.



I draw a lot of what I am from my parents. My father was never depressed - not to hear tell of it, anyway. He kept that stiff upper lip and just soldiered on. Of course, he passed when I was 12 so I wasn't exactly a keen observer of the human condition at that point.

Mom? Mom was the quiet housewife who chain-smoked Chesterfields and devoted her entire life to her kids and husband. What she thought, deep down inside, was a secret kept from me.

So I guess I refuse to believe I'm depressed, even though all the symptoms are there.



> But I wonder if maybe a change might be in order -- lifestyle change, dietary improvements, vitamin supplements (D3 is good for depression, B50 combo too), outings to a nice place even if its not great weather.  Maybe talk to a counselor or upbeat friend.  Try to climb out of that dark pit, even if it means clawing your way out inch by inch.  Most of us have some sort of physical problem we have to live with, but giving up is not an option.



I'm fairly sure that change will be the catalyst, but in typically Stubborn Italian way I prefer to wait for it to come to me, rather than actively seek it out. I do have a wonderful friend who is helping me figure this out - although virtual, their advice and caring is invaluable and has actually, along with the many responses here, given me a strong grip on the edge of that pit. 

"Giving up is not an option" ... wellllll ... as Mr. Spock once said, "There are always ... options". I see giving up as being an equal option to continuing on, certainly from a philosophical point of view. They both solve a problem, right?


----------



## chic

SifuPhil said:


> I think in my past life I would have been thrilled with this store!
> 
> Unfortunately I've hung up my handyman title. I used to be quite good at it in fact - rehabbed a few houses in my time - but now it's a major project to replace a screw on roomie's glasses. I whine like a spoiled little kid, procrastinate until roomie is blindly falling down the stairs, finally spend a day or two finding a jeweler's screwdriver and MIGHT get the job done in a week or so.



Phil you don't need to search out a jeweler's screwdriver anymore because CVS sells these little eyeglass repair kits right next to the non prescription reading glasses. The screwdriver and all the implements you require are enclosed in a handy plastic tube and it only costs about three bucks. I keep one handy all the time for use whenever needed.


----------



## SifuPhil

chic said:


> Phil you don't need to search out a jeweler's screwdriver anymore because CVS sells these little eyeglass repair kits right next to the non prescription reading glasses. The screwdriver and all the implements you require are enclosed in a handy plastic tube and it only costs about three bucks. I keep one handy all the time for use whenever needed.



Great idea, Chic. I've seen and used them many times; it's just a matter of getting up the gumption to go out the door, get on the bus, ride it to the store, go into that store, buy it, walk out of the store, catch the bus and walk home.

I know ... baby steps.


----------



## IKE

IKE said:


> I think about what's coming just around the corner also Phil and it ain't pretty.......it's depressing as hell actually.
> 
> Here's just a few things that quickly pop to mind that we have to look forward to:
> 
> Dementia....Alzheimer's....Parkinson's....Arthritis....Osteoporosis....Lack of mobility....Falling....Nursing homes....Diapers etc.
> 
> I read somewhere that on average if a person makes it to 65 that they can expect another 19.3 years of life......there is a huge difference between just being alive for 19.3 more years and the quality of life during those last years.
> 
> I think after you get to a certain point that death is a welcome friend.



Don't know why but I got to pondering the above this morning and put myself in one of those moods.....I guess I need to quit pondering on the inevitable.

*slapping self*........snap out of it Ike !


----------



## SifuPhil

IKE said:


> Don't know why but I got to pondering this morning and put myself in one of those moods.....I guess I need to quit pondering on the inevitable.
> 
> *slapping self*........snap out of it Ike !



I've stopped trying to force myself out of those moods, Ike - I just ride them until they naturally disappear. 

Much easier than fighting them. I figure, when the time is right, I'll feel better. If not, well, then I'll be a grump for a while longer.


----------



## GeorgiaXplant

I didn't see this thread the first time around; funny it should catch my eye this morning.

Since this is an anonymous forum and since I'm not anybody worth tracking down and harassing, I figured WTH, I'll just throw this out there:

_I hate my effing life. _Hate it.

It's not just boredom because I hated it before I retired, too. I just had something do then. I hardly ever laugh and cry even less. I don't get angry...like to a point where there's door slamming or shouting...just annoyed from time to time and can't remember a time when I was over-the-moon happy, merely mildly pleased about something. 

I'm not a doting granny although I love the g'kids, not even a doting parent although I love my kids, too.

Mostly, I just don't _feel _much of anything about anything. I like or don't like...ideas, people, things...but that's about as far as it goes. Like everybody else, I'll say "I love that" or "I hate that" but those are just words. For instance, I hate winter.

Either I've been crapped on too many times over the years and grown a cast iron shell or I'm just a cold, unfeeling bitch.

Having said all that, I look forward to spring. I look forward to the days when my SS and retirement checks are deposited. I look forward every night to my coffee in the morning.


----------



## GeorgiaXplant

Maybe that's me, too, BB. I've lost my passion for life. What I "hate" is not feeling anything and like you, probably in a rut of my own making where it's easier to stay in it than climb out of it.


----------



## BlunderWoman

This is the best thread I've read at this forum so far. I love when people really share their feelings together and it's more than just weather talk.


----------



## Cookie

When I woke up this morning I looked forward to my morning cup of coffee and to cleaning up the mess of dishes I made in the kitchen yesterday.  That's what a clear sunny mild day does to me, after a wicked week and freezing weather. 

Sometimes a nice long chat with a friend is all it takes for me to feel that life is OK, connecting over tea and cookies and laughing about some silly thing is all it takes to realize that its all ok.


----------



## Denise1952

SifuPhil said:


> A quote from Butterfly in another thread got me to thinking ...
> 
> 
> 
> I get this. In fact, I get it so strongly that I've had this feeling for the last 15 years or so.
> 
> For me, part of it is physical. I'm no longer 20 and can't do all the things I used to. Through nobody's fault but my own I've recently been whacked with a few medical problems, which once again I'm not used to, and it has caused me to start slipping off the bright, clean middle of that tapestry.
> 
> My choice to cut myself off from the world - another slip toward the edge.
> 
> Convincing myself that my days of close relationships are over - hanging onto the fringe, scrabbling, to keep from falling into that dark, wood-floored abyss.
> 
> And finally the 2-ton elephant giving me what seems to be the final push - that I have nothing to look forward to. I've had my education, my career, wrote my books, did my partying, made love under a full moon on the beach, got married, had kids, divorced, SCUBA dived, skydived ... I've lived my life, lived longer than my family. I've laughed and I've cried.
> 
> What's left? What can I look forward to? Old age? Sitting in a rocking chair or, worse, a hospital, somewhere? What's that? Living off a measly SS hand-out from the government that won't even pay for the cat food?
> 
> Have any of you ever had these dark thoughts?



Geez, you've been reading my diary Phil.  I've been trying to turn things around, look at the glass half full.  It's hard though, I drift back easily, at the least, little setback.  I think about that song "is that all there is".  

But I see it helps me to stay in today, not think future, not think past.  What can I do, not what can't I do.  I moved recently, and most of the folks in this seniors-only apartment building seem to be "just waiting to die".  I don't want to get to that point, but some days I do.  The days I do something, like even a walk, I feel so much different.  But it's an ongoing struggle.

Reading your post helped me though, thanks for posting it.  What I'm going to do, is plan something to look forward to (not my cremation, followed by my wake) but maybe a trip.  Maybe find out where there is going to be a concert, love music.  I don't have a lot of extra money either, but I did notice I can safely save a little each month.  I think I'll ditch my truck, it needs more work, and heck, I can take a bus, or better yet, a train if I want to go somewhere.  There's more and more going wrong with the truck, costing me any savings I do have.

I think for me, it's been the idea that at this age I do this, and at that age I do that.  I know that we have to slow down to an extent, because of one thing or another.  At the same time though, I don't want to buy into the lies (maybe unintentional) that because I am 63, my life is over.  Because I have to have a pacemaker to keep me going, my life is over, because I have graying hair, my life is over.  Oh, and, because I am alone, and don't meet anyone to share my life with, my life must be over for sure.

PS one more thing, my life is not over because while I was answering your post, I over-cooked my oatmeal, lol!


----------



## fureverywhere

Maybe I'm lucky that I've framed bad genetics into something positive. If I imagine old age realistically I'd probably consider jumping. But I realize my mother was the longest living female on that side of the family...66. I have high blood pressure, high stress. But I make the most out of most days. If you think that you might have at best another decade here...makes you want to take care of the important things.


----------



## Denise1952

SifuPhil said:


> I've stopped trying to force myself out of those moods, Ike - I just ride them until they naturally disappear.
> 
> Much easier than fighting them. I figure, when the time is right, I'll feel better. If not, well, then I'll be a grump for a while longer.



I agree with this.  For example, I was just down, for the last 3-4 days, I just went with it, because I can.  I stayed home, rode it out, took naps, ate too much.  It's passing on it's own.  I can't force myself to just get up and do something.  Maybe I'm supposed to kick back, who knows


----------



## Lon

In another 19 years I will be right there with ya Manatee.


----------



## SifuPhil

Denise1952 said:


> I agree with this.  For example, I was just down, for the last 3-4 days, I just went with it, because I can.  I stayed home, rode it out, took naps, ate too much.  It's passing on it's own.  I can't force myself to just get up and do something.  Maybe I'm supposed to kick back, who knows



There, you see?

Dr. Philly's Magic Cure - don't do _anything_!


----------



## Ruthanne

I just saw this thread even though it's been here for over a few months.  I can relate to a lot of how you feel Phil.  I often feel like I've got nothing left to give the world, am falling apart in many ways and don't know why I go on living really.  I have my pets who I love a lot and taking care of them is everything to me.  I love to see them live every day and how they enjoy me being here.  I don't know if anyone else does but they do and so I go on to care for them.


----------



## fureverywhere

I have my pets who I love a lot and taking care of them is everything to me.  I love to see them live every day and how they enjoy me being here.  I don't know if anyone else does but they do and so I go on to care for them. 

I hear ya darlin', my Callie is my reason for living. Unconditional love, he's the first face...okay first butt, he sleeps head first under the covers, that I see every morning. He protects his Mami with his life, gets along beautifully with the other creatures and humans in the family. He doesn't ask anything except regular meals, peanut butter and being allowed to give huge wet gloppy kisses. If he were human I'd marry him and he knows I walk on water.


----------



## Ruthanne

fureverywhere said:


> I have my pets who I love a lot and taking care of them is everything to me.  I love to see them live every day and how they enjoy me being here.  I don't know if anyone else does but they do and so I go on to care for them.
> 
> I hear ya darlin', my Callie is my reason for living. Unconditional love, he's the first face...okay first butt, he sleeps head first under the covers, that I see every morning. He protects his Mami with his life, gets along beautifully with the other creatures and humans in the family. He doesn't ask anything except regular meals, peanut butter and being allowed to give huge wet gloppy kisses. If he were human I'd marry him and he knows I walk on water.



My Suzy gives me big wet kisses all the time, too.  She is happy just to be here and doesn't ask anything of me.  But of course I feed her.  But she doesn't even ask to go out or anything.  She shows me so much appreciation and just makes my days!  I'm glad you have this kind of unconditional love, too.  It's the best!


----------



## SifuPhil

Hmm ... starting to see a trend here ... of course, many studies have been done that show that pets give happiness and new meaning to life for seniors.

I guess I'll keep my brine fish.


----------



## Ruthanne

SifuPhil said:


> Hmm ... starting to see a trend here ... of course, many studies have been done that show that pets give happiness and new meaning to life for seniors.
> 
> I guess I'll keep my brine fish.


:friendly_wink:


----------



## Pappy

SifuPhil said:


> Hmm ... starting to see a trend here ... of course, many studies have been done that show that pets give happiness and new meaning to life for seniors.
> 
> I guess I'll keep my brine fish.



Phil. Hang onto those Sea Monkeys too. They're hard to find.


----------



## Susie

I'm still waiting for so-called 'old-age'. Should be just around the corner, shouldn't it?
At age 87 I look forward to the new wonders each day could bring and try to enjoy each single minute, hour, day (one of continuous joy being this great forum)!  :woohoo1:


----------



## fureverywhere

I guess I'll keep my brine fish. 

But they don't snuffle your crotch as you come out of the shower, it's just not the same thing


----------



## Falcon

Phil, Do your brine fish fetch if you throw them a stick?


----------



## SifuPhil

fureverywhere said:


> But they don't snuffle your crotch as you come out of the shower, it's just not the same thing



YOUR brine shrimp might not - MINE are trained ... 



Falcon said:


> Phil, Do your brine fish fetch if you throw them a stick?



They _try_, Falcon, they _try_ ... sometimes it takes 23 of them, like in that SEAL training exercise where they carry that big log. 



Pappy said:


> Phil. Hang onto those Sea Monkeys too. They're hard to find.



Oh, I know, Pappy! So many brine shrimp apply to be Sea Monkeys, but so few make the grade.


----------



## fureverywhere

No really this big cold nose in your private parts, that is dedication, after the zombie apocalypse I am still covering your pathetic excuse as a human butt.


----------



## SifuPhil

fureverywhere said:


> No really this big cold nose in your private parts, that is dedication ...



Or, as I've discovered, an extra $5 left on the dresser ... 




> after the zombie apocalypse I am still covering your pathetic excuse as a human butt.



... umm ... okay ... thank you ... I think ... I didn't know we had that kind of relationship ...


----------



## Shalimar

Philly, you are not a deadhead? No worries, you can still be part of our group. I will watch your butt, if you watch my six.


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Philly, you are not a deadhead? No worries, you can still be part of our group. I will watch your butt, if you watch my six.



Not particularly. I mean, I like their music and I agree with their life philosophy, but I was never one of those who followed them around the world screaming and drooling. 

A question, if I may - what's the difference between my butt and your six? Whenever you asked me to watch your six I would watch your butt - was I watching the wrong thing?


----------



## Shalimar

Time warp. Deadhead, as in Walking Dead, not Grateful Dead. Although perhaps zombies drool? You did good, six, or butt, Or back, means cover me.


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Time warp. Deadhead, as in Walking Dead, not Grateful Dead. Although perhaps zombies drool? You did good, six, or butt, Or back, means cover me.



Oh, okay - I'm not into TWD. Guess I'm showing my age.

Don't know if zombies drool - that's an interesting question. 

Cover you with what? :angel:


----------



## Shalimar

Philly, you are being deliberately obtuse, back to your corner for a time out. Lol.


----------



## SifuPhil

*sigh*

I'm in this corner so much the paint is wearing off the walls. 

It would be better if you just smacked my nose with a rolled-up newspaper, then held it in my post.

"Bad Philly! BAD!!!"

Then I'd spend the rest of the day cowering and looking guiltily up at you with my big puppy-dog eyes ...


----------



## Shalimar

Sigh, time for a therapissed again Philly. I will work for chocolate. Lots of chocolate, this could take a while....


----------



## Underock1

Shalimar said:


> Time warp. Deadhead, as in Walking Dead, not Grateful Dead. Although perhaps zombies drool? You did good, six, or butt, Or back, means cover me.



Oh..I thought "six" was just misspelled.:redface-new:


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Sigh, time for a therapissed again Philly. I will work for chocolate. Lots of chocolate, this could take a while....



Here's my down payment ...


----------



## Shalimar

Philly, where to begin! Chocolate heaven. White chocolate first I think.


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Philly, where to begin! Chocolate heaven. White chocolate first I think.



I'm glad you approve - it took several trips to the chocolatiers to get it all together.


----------



## Shalimar

I am delighted, thank you so much Philly. Now I shall get fat!


----------



## SifuPhil

What's a little fat among friends? 

Besides, it's winter - good insulation.


----------



## IKE

Just getting up and I've been trying to catch up on this thread this morning and I must confess I'm as lost as a Easter egg......I'm just having trouble tying all these things together.

Highlights:

Brine fish.....sea monkeys.....crotch snuffle.....cold nose in private parts.....watching Philly's butt.....Shali has six of something.....Philly likes to get smacked around with a wet newspaper and doesn't mind paying for it.....Shali is being encouraged to devour excessive amounts of chocolate by Philly in order to fatten her up to provide better insulation.

Confused......I'm just so confused.


----------



## SifuPhil

Makes perfect sense to me, Ike. What's the confusing part?


----------



## IKE

SifuPhil said:


> Makes perfect sense to me, Ike. What's the confusing part?



The light will probably come on in a bit bro.........coffee, I need more coffee.


----------



## Ruthanne

ike said:


> just getting up and i've been trying to catch up on this thread this morning and i must confess i'm as lost as a easter egg......i'm just having trouble tying all these things together.
> 
> Highlights:
> 
> Brine fish.....sea monkeys.....crotch snuffle.....cold nose in private parts.....watching philly's butt.....shali has six of something.....philly likes to get smacked around with a wet newspaper and doesn't mind paying for it.....shali is being encouraged to devour excessive amounts of chocolate by philly in order to fatten her up to provide better insulation.
> 
> Confused......i'm just so confused.


rofl!!


----------



## SifuPhil

IKE said:


> The light will probably come on in a bit bro.........coffee, I need more coffee.



There's probably not enough coffee in all the Starbucks to make sense of this thread, but good luck anyway!


----------



## Ruthanne

SifuPhil said:


> There's probably not enough coffee in all the Starbucks to make sense of this thread, but good luck anyway!


Actually this thread makes sense in its own sick way. lol


----------



## SifuPhil

Ruthanne said:


> Actually this thread makes sense in its own sick way. lol



Ah - great minds think alike!


----------



## Denise1952

IKE said:


> Just getting up and I've been trying to catch up on this thread this morning and I must confess I'm as lost as a Easter egg......I'm just having trouble tying all these things together.
> 
> Highlights:
> 
> Brine fish.....sea monkeys.....crotch snuffle.....cold nose in private parts.....watching Philly's butt.....Shali has six of something.....Philly likes to get smacked around with a wet newspaper and doesn't mind paying for it.....Shali is being encouraged to devour excessive amounts of chocolate by Philly in order to fatten her up to provide better insulation.
> 
> Confused......I'm just so confused.



metoo, but your post put it all in perspective, :lol:


----------



## SifuPhil

Imagine if we were TRYING to be confusing!


----------



## Denise1952

SifuPhil said:


> Imagine if we were TRYING to be confusing!



now there's a frightening thought, thanks, I think I'll go get my blabla and suck my thumb


----------



## SifuPhil

You have a blabla?!?

I had a boomboom, but I think they're different ...


----------



## Denise1952

SifuPhil said:


> You have a blabla?!?
> 
> I had a boomboom, but I think they're different ...



actually, I stole it from my lil brother.  I had a "judy doll" and my thumb.  No, you can't have my judy doll


----------



## Shalimar

What happened to bankies?


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> What happened to bankies?



They got a pass from the government. "Too big to fail" and all that rot ...


----------



## Shalimar

I don't need winter insulation, it is sixty degrees out here. This is the not frozen part of Canada. We have had one inch of snow in the past two years. Lol chocolate is my favourite food group, along with coffee. I would chew  the arm off, ok bite the ankle in Ike's case, of anyone foolish enough to get between me and my Keurig coffee machine. Grrr.


----------



## Denise1952




----------



## Shalimar

Philly, you don't understand Canadianyr. Bankies, aka baby blankets, once carried about by adorable rug rats/yard apes such as myself.


----------



## Denise1952

It must have morphed as my family moved further south Shal, I actually called mine a dankie, still do, LOL!


----------



## Shalimar

Denise,that is exactly what my son did with his first birthday cake at a year old. Lolol.


----------



## Shalimar

So funny Denise!


----------



## Shalimar

Dankies, love it!


----------



## Denise1952

I believe it  I heard Phil did that at his last birthdaylayful:nthego:


----------



## Denise1952

I was thinking Phil, I know, I know, but seriously, I'm looking on the bright side, at least about one thing, starting today.  I am glad I can still go to the bathroom by myself


----------



## Shalimar

Denise, we have a Belgian chocolate shop where the chocolatier makes them onsite. They even have sugar free.


----------



## Denise1952

I really like stevia, to replace sugar, but at the same time, I've never cut myself off from sugar :


----------



## Shalimar

I like stevia too. But chocolate without sugar?????


----------



## Denise1952

haven't tried it yet, but maybe one day.  Dark Chocolate for me, I am way hooked on that


----------



## Shalimar

How did we get from choclomania to bathroom habits Denise?  What did I miss? Do I want to know?


----------



## Shalimar

I love it all, even the white chocolate.


----------



## Denise1952

We've done a "chocolate hijacking" on this thread, I feel so ashamed


----------



## Shalimar

Lolololol. I'm not, it is Philly's fault for posting that awesome chocolate pic. He must be punished!


----------



## IKE

Shalimar said:


> How did we get from choclomania to bathroom habits Denise?  What did I miss? Do I want to know?



Potty talk now ?........One can only wonder where this thread will go next.


----------



## Denise1952

Well, I don't remember now Ike, my mind wanders, and that's my only excuse til I find the thread, LOL!

Oh yeah, that was actually "on the topic"  Being glad for something, instead of being negative


----------



## vickyNightowl

IKE said:


> Potty talk now ?........One can only wonder where this thread will go next.



The girls can have the chocolate,I want some licorice from Phil.

Teehee


----------



## IKE

Oh boy, Philly has licorice ?.

I wants me some too......can I have some Philly ?......can I, huh, can I, can I, huh ?.......Pretty pleeeease Philly.


----------



## Denise1952

He's either busy, or he's hording it Ike, LMBO!


----------



## vickyNightowl

Denise1952 said:


> He's either busy, or he's hording it Ike, LMBO!



Hahhaha


----------



## Shalimar

I want liquorice too. I want Ike's share. I deserve it more than he does.lolol.


----------



## IKE

Shalimar said:


> I want liquorice too. I want Ike's share. I deserve it more than he does.lolol.



Don't listen to her Philly she's already hoarding all the chocolate.

Hook a brother up dude......c'mon homey I be jonesing for some licorise.


----------



## Shalimar

Ike, Philly must listen to me, I am his therapist. We already  have a chocolate contract, may need to add a liquorice clause. Hmmm.


----------



## Shalimar

Besides Ike, everyone knows that liquorice is bad for men, makes them weak. Lololololol.


----------



## IKE

Shalimar said:


> Besides Ike, everyone knows that liquorice is bad for men, makes them weak. Lololololol.



Shali trust me...that ain't what she said last night.


----------



## Denise1952

IKE said:


> Don't listen to her Philly she's already hoarding all the chocolate.
> 
> Hook a brother up dude......c'mon homey I be jonesing for some licorise.



wait a sec, I'm family as Phil and I were separated at birth, like these folks:


----------



## IKE

*throwing hands up in despair with tears in eyes*.......I give up, keep all the licorise see if I care.

I'm going to my room now and pout.....sniff.....sniff.


----------



## vickyNightowl

IKE said:


> *throwing hands up in despair with tears in eyes*.......I give up, keep all the licorise see if I care.
> 
> I'm going to my room now and pout.....sniff.....sniff.


There there,don't cry,ill give ya a taste of mine....:devil:


----------



## Shalimar

Okay Ike, poor little giant. Here is some liquorice. Please stop crying,  you are upsetting Denise's delicate sensibilities. Lol.


----------



## Denise1952

just who are you calling delicate??


----------



## Shalimar

That is my kind of delicate! Apparently, there is a company making motorcycles specifically designed for female body. I so want one! Road trip!


----------



## Denise1952

I'm with you!  Hey, I was thinking of selling my truck, but maybe I can trade it for a motorcycle, or at least a down-payment!! LOL!!


----------



## Shalimar

Awesome Denise!


----------



## SifuPhil

For _my_ first blanket Mom gave me a sheet of fiberglass insulation...


----------



## SifuPhil

And I think this is the chick cycle y'all were talking about ...


----------



## SifuPhil

*picking up the pieces of his poor thread*

They took my premise, and they threw it over there ... and they took my responses and they threw them over there ... 

Cowardly Lion: That's you, all over!


----------



## Shalimar

Philly, lolol. Poor girl looks like she needs the porta potty, or else some Depends. Lolol.  I will however keep the boots.


----------



## Shalimar

Fibreglass eh? That explains a lot Philly. Was it pink to match your rash?


----------



## IKE

SifuPhil said:


> For _my_ first blanket Mom gave me a sheet of fiberglass insulation...



Awww that was so sweet of her Philly........kinda went along with the bed of nails your dad made you to sleep on.


----------



## IKE

SifuPhil said:


> And I think this is the chick cycle y'all were talking about ...
> 
> View attachment 27266



Kinda makes me want to be reincarnated as a motorcycle seat.


----------



## Shalimar

Why wait Ike? I will tan your hide for free right now! Boom.


----------



## IKE

Shalimar said:


> Why wait Ike? I will tan your hide for free right now! Boom.



That's what I love about my little redheaded mermaid......she's always willing to help.


----------



## Shalimar

Yes, Canadians are a helpful people. Serving you lots of shade. Lolol.


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Fibreglass eh? That explains a lot Philly. Was it pink to match your rash?





IKE said:


> Awww that was so sweet of her Philly........kinda went along with the bed of nails your dad made you to sleep on.



Boy, you guys are psychic!


----------



## vickyNightowl

Shalimar said:


> Yes, Canadians are a helpful people. Serving you lots of shade. Lolol.



Lmao

You tell them shali!


----------



## Guitarist

I just found this thread, so I'm still working off the original theme of the tapestry and feeling shunted from the central scene to the sidelines ...

It reminded me of a painting by Brueghel (I think he's the one).  He painted "peasant scenes" and when I took art history/appreciation I learned about all the detail he put into his paintings.  There will be a huge scene with a lot of people in it doing a lot of things, but every single person is doing something that has a theme of its own that also adds to the big picture.  It's like you can take a corner of one of his paintings and it's like a smaller painting in itself.  So even in the corners, probably even on the sidelines, the people are actively doing something, even if you don't notice it unless you look for it.  

I'm glad I found this thread tonight, because today I was just thinking that I may never see many of my best friends again.  I moved from one city to another because there was a vacancy in this apartment building and none in the building where I used to live.  I've been here more than 3 years now, and I've only seen 2 people from my former home, and not a single one of my best friends from there.  They can't just get in the car and drive 100-plus miles for a weekend visit, plus they have other things to do on their weekends.  

I've just lost my best friend here (he didn't die, just left).  And SifuPhil's words about relationships really hit home too.  

But if a peasant in a Brueghel painting can stay active, I guess I can try to, too?  Anyway, I've kind of given up on trying to live near friends and just want to try to live near the ocean, because I love it and it's always going to be there.


----------



## SifuPhil

Guitarist said:


> I just found this thread, so I'm still working off the original theme of the tapestry and feeling shunted from the central scene to the sidelines ...



Ahh ... another edge-holder. Welcome! 


> It reminded me of a painting by Brueghal (I think he's the one).  He painted "peasant scenes" and when I took art history/appreciation I learned about all the detail he put into his paintings.  There will be a huge scene with a lot of people in it doing a lot of things, but every single person is doing something that has a theme of its own that also adds to the big picture.  It's like you can take a corner of one of his paintings and it's like a smaller painting in itself.  So even in the corners, probably even on the sidelines, the people are actively doing something, even if you don't notice it unless you look for it.







> I'm glad I found this thread tonight, because today I was just thinking that I may never see many of my best friends again.  I moved from one city to another because there was a vacancy in this apartment building and none in the building where I used to live.  I've been here more than 3 years now, and I've only seen 2 people from my former home, and not a single one of my best friends from there.  They can't just get in the car and drive 100-plus miles for a weekend visit, plus they have other things to do on their weekends.
> 
> I've just lost my best friend here (he didn't die, just left).  And SifuPhil's words about relationships really hit home too.



I'm sorry my post reminded you of your loneliness.  



> But if a peasant in a Brueghel painting can stay active, I guess I can try to, too?  Anyway, I've kind of given up on trying to live near friends and just want to try to live near the ocean, because I love it and it's always going to be there.



I like that - a lot. Especially the bit about the ocean. I've always felt a pull toward the ocean but never knew why. Thank you for that bit of wisdom.


----------



## Karen99

Guitarist said:


> I just found this thread, so I'm still working off the original theme of the tapestry and feeling shunted from the central scene to the sidelines ...
> 
> It reminded me of a painting by Brueghal (I think he's the one).  He painted "peasant scenes" and when I took art history/appreciation I learned about all the detail he put into his paintings.  There will be a huge scene with a lot of people in it doing a lot of things, but every single person is doing something that has a theme of its own that also adds to the big picture.  It's like you can take a corner of one of his paintings and it's like a smaller painting in itself.  So even in the corners, probably even on the sidelines, the people are actively doing something, even if you don't notice it unless you look for it.
> 
> I'm glad I found this thread tonight, because today I was just thinking that I may never see many of my best friends again.  I moved from one city to another because there was a vacancy in this apartment building and none in the building where I used to live.  I've been here more than 3 years now, and I've only seen 2 people from my former home, and not a single one of my best friends from there.  They can't just get in the car and drive 100-plus miles for a weekend visit, plus they have other things to do on their weekends.
> 
> I've just lost my best friend here (he didn't die, just left).  And SifuPhil's words about relationships really hit home too.
> 
> But if a peasant in a Brueghel painting can stay active, I guess I can try to, too?  Anyway, I've kind of given up on trying to live near friends and just want to try to live near the ocean, because I love it and it's always going to be there.



I enjoyed your post, Guitarist.  I think as our lives progress there is that aspect of loss.  The painting you mention does represent a wide spectrum of people and activity. There is "the big picture" but also lots of smaller pictures as you mentioned.  I am retired and not working anymore ..but my life is now filled with other activity I have chosen..and it certainly matters to me. I have a more quiet life because I need and crave it.

i like your last sentence a lot..you decided to have your little piece of the world by something that doesn't change and gives you comfort...perfect


----------



## vickyNightowl

Not only was Guitarists post beautiful,sad and about perseverance,we were also introduced to a beautiful piece of artwork.


----------



## Kitties

I'm feeling this way myself lately. Wondering what the future holds. It seems just a few years ago, I had hopes about the future but they seem to be gone. I'm wondering more about how the following years will just play out. I'm still working full time but it's not easy. I have my cats and they of coarse matter.

It's strange how outlook on life changes so quickly.


----------



## Guitarist




----------



## Susie

Denise1952 said:


> I agree with this.  For example, I was just down, for the last 3-4 days, I just went with it, because I can.  I stayed home, rode it out, took naps, ate too much.  It's passing on it's own.  I can't force myself to just get up and do something.  Maybe I'm supposed to kick back, who knows


Once you have fallen into the great pit of despair, you may have to grasp at every tiny bit of life: The wandering of an ant; the sight of a colorful bird; the formation of clouds; the sermons and speeches of well-meaning persons.
Don't let your memories escape into the unknown, hang on to them with pictures and words, so that your children and grandchildren will be able to cherish your memory.


----------



## The Inspector

> Originally Posted by *Denise1952*
> 
> 
> I agree with this.  For example, I was just down, for the last 3-4 days, I just went with it, because I can.  I stayed home, rode it out, took naps, ate too much.  It's passing on it's own.  I can't force myself to just get up and do something.  Maybe I'm supposed to kick back, who knows



Don't worry about that you are suppose to do and enjoy what you can do.


----------



## AutumnOfMyLife

SifuPhil said:


> A quote from Butterfly in another thread got me to thinking ...
> 
> 
> 
> I get this. In fact, I get it so strongly that I've had this feeling for the last 15 years or so.
> 
> For me, part of it is physical. I'm no longer 20 and can't do all the things I used to. Through nobody's fault but my own I've recently been whacked with a few medical problems, which once again I'm not used to, and it has caused me to start slipping off the bright, clean middle of that tapestry.
> 
> My choice to cut myself off from the world - another slip toward the edge.
> 
> Convincing myself that my days of close relationships are over - hanging onto the fringe, scrabbling, to keep from falling into that dark, wood-floored abyss.
> 
> And finally the 2-ton elephant giving me what seems to be the final push - that I have nothing to look forward to. I've had my education, my career, wrote my books, did my partying, made love under a full moon on the beach, got married, had kids, divorced, SCUBA dived, skydived ... I've lived my life, lived longer than my family. I've laughed and I've cried.
> 
> What's left? What can I look forward to? Old age? Sitting in a rocking chair or, worse, a hospital, somewhere? What's that? Living off a measly SS hand-out from the government that won't even pay for the cat food?
> 
> Have any of you ever had these dark thoughts?


Perhaps volunteering would help to bring meaning back to your life.


----------



## fureverywhere

I've been finding myself short tempered, some mornings you just don't want to get up. I know what it is...The search for work is making me nutso. I mean even a stupid job until I can get something meaningful. Just have to keep paws crossed somebody says yes eventually. But it's been almost six months...never took this long before.


----------



## Butterfly

AutumnOfMyLife said:


> Perhaps volunteering would help to bring meaning back to your life.



I haven't had any luck finding meaningful volunteer opportunities.  So many of them here are just grunt work and, though I get around and do things just fine, I'm not able to lift and carry a bunch of things, or do heavy gardening work any more -- my knees are not so hot.  I tried checking with the VA, as Ina did, but there are very limited opportunities here and they use very few volunteers (dunno why).

I'm going through a sort of grim stage right now   -- probably partly because of all the car woes I am having.


----------



## fureverywhere

Maybe good we're not alone right???


----------



## Guitarist

Butterfly said:


> I haven't had any luck finding meaningful volunteer opportunities.  So many of them here are just grunt work and, though I get around and do things just fine, I'm not able to lift and carry a bunch of things, or do heavy gardening work any more -- my knees are not so hot.  I tried checking with the VA, as Ina did, but there are very limited opportunities here and they use very few volunteers (dunno why).
> 
> I'm going through a sort of grim stage right now   -- probably partly because of all the car woes I am having.



Sorry to hear you are having car woes too.  What kind are you having?  Mine are that i don't have a car and can't afford to buy one. And the people who have cars they want to donate only want to donate them to PBS or something, not to other people who could use them.


----------



## SifuPhil

Ah, the grim specter of the future ....

Sorry you're having car problems, Butterfly. I remember what that was like ... paying insurance on a car that wasn't running always got my goat. 

I'm not really volunteer material. Never have been. Too selfish. I feel if I'm going to work, I should be compensated for my time in some concrete way. 

Horrible, I know - but that's me.


----------



## Butterfly

Guitarist said:


> Sorry to hear you are having car woes too.  What kind are you having?  Mine are that i don't have a car and can't afford to buy one. And the people who have cars they want to donate only want to donate them to PBS or something, not to other people who could use them.



Transmission is shot and it looks like it's headed for the junkyard.  I'm looking for a used one I can afford.  It's almost impossible to live here without a car, and I am also the transportation for my disabled sister as well.  If we had somewhere near decent bus service here I'd seriously consider using that instead of a car, but we don't.


----------



## Butterfly

SifuPhil said:


> Ah, the grim specter of the future ....
> 
> Sorry you're having car problems, Butterfly. I remember what that was like ... paying insurance on a car that wasn't running always got my goat.
> 
> *I'm not really volunteer material. Never have been. Too selfish. I feel if I'm going to work, I should be compensated for my time in some concrete way.
> *
> Horrible, I know - but that's me.



Me, too, Phil.  Several places I looked into wanted volunteers to do similar work and have time commitments similar to what I retired from -- and they want resumes and all kinds of stuff.  All that, to give away my time?  Hell, if I wanted to go through all THAT, I'd go get a paying job.  Besides which, some of those do-gooders and their holier-than-thou attitudes affect me like nails on a blackboard.  

I guess I'm horrible, too.


----------



## Guitarist

> New challenges, yes - dealing with a body that has suddenly gone gimp. Discoveries - that I'm not the man I used to be. Joy? Get outta' here. Conversations are about the only thing left, and those are all virtual.



This.  I don't have conversations with people in real life, face to face, anymore.  There is no one to have such conversations with.

People have suggested I volunteer, but I have no way to get to any of the places where I could do the work.  No public transportation within walking distance of me.


----------



## SifuPhil

Butterfly said:


> Me, too, Phil.  Several places I looked into wanted volunteers to do similar work and have time commitments similar to what I retired from -- and they want resumes and all kinds of stuff.  All that, to give away my time?  Hell, if I wanted to go through all THAT, I'd go get a paying job.  Besides which, some of those do-gooders and their holier-than-thou attitudes affect me like nails on a blackboard.
> 
> I guess I'm horrible, too.



We'll have to start a Horrible Person club - no resumes needed to join, just the ability to show horribleness. 



Guitarist said:


> This.  I don't have conversations with people in real life, face to face, anymore.  There is no one to have such conversations with.
> 
> People have suggested I volunteer, but I have no way to get to any of the places where I could do the work.  No public transportation within walking distance of me.



The only people i talk to in real face-to-face situations these days are my roommate and the guy that owns the convenience store up the street.

My roommate only wants to talk about her medical condition so I severely limit our talks. And the store owner? 

"Hi Jimmy"

"Hi Phil"

"How goes it?"

"Good - how about you?"

"Good".

Transport is a bitch, I know. I have to take two buses to get anywhere even semi-worthwhile.


----------



## Shalimar

I thought I had a realistic view of my future, barring anything drastic. I come from people who put off dying well into their nineties, so I may be here for awhile. Body has lasted far longer than the medical doom merchants prophecied, back in the 

days when I would have X-rays guaranteed to depress me for months. Lol. I expected to live alone until I died, gaining purpose from helping others, writing poetry, connecting with friends, hopefully building a closer relationship with my son. I told myself 

it was enough, many times it was a struggle to keep putting one foot In front of the other. Then, Boom, along 

came a crazy Italian, upset the whole applecart, by ignoring the sparklefairy persona, and climbing inside my head and heart, refusing to leave. So much for being elusive. Loving someone changes everything. I have fallen into hope. Thanks Philly.


----------



## SifuPhil

Who's-a upsetta the apple-cart-a? I'm-a innocent - I was-a playing with the peaches!

You're welcome, dear - and thank YOU for rescuing me from myself. You managed that quite effortlessly. Must be a Taoist ...


----------



## fureverywhere

Actually a book I was reading today suggested if it's a place to work that you know would be a perfect fit. Volunteer to work for free, Hey check it out! I can be a perfect team player!!! I'm considering that for the place that called today. Walking distance from the house and basically doggie day care. I've done human day care, same idea...we don't bite our friends and clean up poop wherever you see it. Worth a try...


----------



## Butterfly

Fur did you hear back from the bookstore?  Or have you had that interview yet?


----------



## jnos

SifulPhil, you said 





> Oh, Lord ... let me go, please. I'm tired of teaching - I want to rest. Too much responsibility, too much effort, too much pain. My last remaining student, at least "officially", has been with me for 14 years. He keeps coming back, 3 times a week, even when I've used negative reinforcement methods on him - sometimes brutally. Like a puppy getting kicked he always returns, licking my hand and looking for love of a sort. I'm not sure how much longer I'll be capable of giving it, and that frightens me.



Sounds like you are not really able to give him more love (using negative reinforcement). Could you do yourself and him a favor by ending the relationship? Or is that not what you really want.

Not meaning to be hard on your here; I hope you take it with the good intent I feel for you. :girl_hug:


----------



## SifuPhil

jnos said:


> SifulPhil, you said
> 
> Sounds like you are not really able to give him more love (using negative reinforcement). Could you do yourself and him a favor by ending the relationship? Or is that not what you really want.
> 
> Not meaning to be hard on your here; I hope you take it with the good intent I feel for you. :girl_hug:




No, of course, jnos, I appreciate you taking the time and having the wisdom to offer a solution.

In one way it's a symbiotic relationship - my student gets what HE needs (teaching and perhaps a Father / Father Confessor figure) and I get what I need - a stroke to my rather large ego. 

The tough part is being "chained" to this relationship - like a real Father, I feel I can't "kick him out of the house" - he would have to go on his own accord.

And as there's no sign of that happening, I might just have to pack my bags and disappear one night, leaving behind a note - "Good luck, muchacho!" layful:


----------



## Wrigley's

Wow, I only read the first couple pages on this thread, but they really hit home. I recently started a diary here on SrForum because I felt myself slipping into the dark....off the tapestry, so to speak.

I know that when I get like that, I'm not alone, but it's great to have the affirmation: reading other people's similar (and actual) experiences.


----------



## Butterfly

Wrigley's said:


> Wow, I only read the first couple pages on this thread, but they really hit home. I recently started a diary here on SrForum because I felt myself slipping into the dark....off the tapestry, so to speak.
> 
> I know that when I get like that, I'm not alone, but it's great to have the affirmation: reading other people's similar (and actual) experiences.



Wrigley -- how are you doing?  I know you mentioned on another thread (which I now can't find) that you were having post-surgical pain.  Did you get to the bottom of that?  I hope so.


----------



## Wrigley's

Butterfly said:


> Wrigley -- how are you doing?  I know you mentioned on another thread (which I now can't find) that you were having post-surgical pain.  Did you get to the bottom of that?  I hope so.



Turns out the odd pain in my lower abdomen is  not an infection. Doctor's opinion is that I did too much too soon.  Too much lifting, in particular. The surgeon does her lap surgeries  directly into the naval, rather than just above or below it, to  hide the scar. But that also causes a weird, annoying knot in  your naval when it starts healing. Plus, when you lift too much too  soon, you can cause internal scarring, and that is probably  causing the pain. 

The surgeon said the incision healed way too fast - faster than the  sutures could dissolve. So the sutures are  causing a pulling type pain that I can feel all the way to my kidneys. I'm taking care not to lift over 20 pounds until end of next week,  and there's less pain every day.


----------



## SifuPhil

Glad the pain is lessening, Wrigs. Hope you're up and around soon.


----------



## fureverywhere

You know something I think about is the movie "As Good as It Gets". Whoooly Crap if I outlive hubby. I mean I could, but I don't want to. It took us so very many years to reach the peace treaty.


----------



## Fern

fureverywhere said:


> You know something I think about is the movie "As Good as It Gets". Whoooly Crap if I outlive hubby. I mean I could, but I don't want to. It took us so very many years to reach the peace treaty.


I know what you mean.


----------



## ladyp

SifuPhil said:


> Well, perhaps "normal" wasn't the proper term to use in _your_ case, I know ...  ... still I wanted to use you as my example, as I know you would flog me only a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it's a universal problem?
> 
> 
> 
> Despite what many of my (former) acquaintances say of me, stubbornness can be a blessing. Thank you for verifying that.
> 
> 
> 
> Back in elementary school we used to have "Air raid practice". At the time, the big goblin was the atomic bomb being dropped upon us by those naughty Russkies. So, every once in a while - monthly, I seem to recall - the sirens would go off during class. What did we do?
> 
> We marched down to the basement, leaned against the wall and clasped our hands over our necks.
> 
> All but me, that is.
> 
> I stood in the middle of the corridor, spread my hands wide, looked upward and chanted "I've got it! I've got it!"
> 
> There was some talk about placing me in the "Special" class but somehow that never happened.



stubbornness is all that keeps me going most of the time. It has served me well up til now and I sure hope it continues to do so.


----------



## Guitarist

> _Originally posted by SifuPhil:
> 
> Back in elementary school we used to have "Air raid practice". At the time, the big goblin was the atomic bomb being dropped upon us by those naughty Russkies. So, every once in a while - monthly, I seem to recall - the sirens would go off during class. What did we do?_
> 
> _We marched down to the basement, leaned against the wall and clasped our hands over our necks. _
> 
> _All but me, that is._
> 
> _I stood in the middle of the corridor, spread my hands wide, looked upward and chanted "I've got it! I've got it!"_
> 
> _There was some talk about placing me in the "Special" class but somehow that never happened._



Sounds to me like you were "all boy."  And yeah, that is special.  (And this is a compliment BTW.)  Schools just don't get it sometimes.


----------



## drifter

I've tried it the whole rat race;not half bad.


----------



## SifuPhil

drifter said:


> I've tried it the whole rat race;not half bad.



But not half good, right?


----------



## Butterfly

As a card-carrying (but now retired) member of the rat race for over 50 years -- I certify that the whole rat race sucks big time.


----------



## richal123

"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." Dark thoughts may in turn let us know how wonderful our life now is.


----------



## SifuPhil

richal123 said:


> "Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." Dark thoughts may in turn let us know how wonderful our life now is.



How very true.


----------



## Shalimar

Consider where the most beautiful flowers grow.


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Consider where the most beautiful flowers grow.



And where all the best Italians live ...


----------



## Shalimar

Philly, I don't understand?


----------



## SifuPhil

Shalimar said:


> Philly, I don't understand?



Like me, they live in _merde_ neighborhoods ...


----------



## suze

I don't know you long enough, but it doesn't seem like you're kidding to me.  I definitely feel like my life is over, or at least all the good stuff on bad days.  My husband and I had lots of plans--nothing elaborate, but we were married 29 years, and we're still very good friends who both dreamt of being that little old couple you see holding hands.  Then he died suddenly and life as I knew it was over. There are days when all I can see is what I've lost; not only my spouse, but my life plan.  I've been married almost my whole adult life. I was supposed to be married--part of a couple.  Like Tevye asked " would it spoil some vast eternal plan..." if I had my little garden variety marriage go on at least past retirement!

Suze


----------



## Ruthanne

I'm so sorry Suze.  I can relate.


----------



## suze

Thanks Ruthanne.  After Greg had been gone about six months I realized I needed to do something to get me back into the world.  For me, tutoring has been a godsend!  I help with reading on two 4K classes, and one second grade.  The gentleman that started this thread has taught and tutored, so that wouldn't help him, but I do believe that you can feel better by doing something for someone else.  It really takes you out of your own head!
i do have hope for the future. I don't expect to have another committed relationship, and that's ok, but I take pleasure in seeing my grandbabies, visiting friends and family around the Midwest, and enjoying my theatre subscription which is paid for my my eBay store sales.

Suze


----------



## Ruthanne

suze said:


> Thanks Ruthanne.  After Greg had been gone about six months I realized I needed to do something to get me back into the world.  For me, tutoring has been a godsend!  I help with reading on two 4K classes, and one second grade.  The gentleman that started this thread has taught and tutored, so that wouldn't help him, but I do believe that you can feel better by doing something for someone else.  It really takes you out of your own head!
> i do have hope for the future. I don't expect to have another committed relationship, and that's ok, but I take pleasure in seeing my grandbabies, visiting friends and family around the Midwest, and enjoying my theatre subscription which is paid for my my eBay store sales.
> 
> Suze


I'm glad you have found things you enjoy.  I am in the Midwest, too.  I don't expect to have another committed relationship either.  It seems like too much for me too handle at this point.  I enjoy seeing my brother, sister n law, her gay brother and friend, and the friends I've made at the apt. place where I live.  I'm thinking of doing some volunteer work, just have to decide what kind and where.


----------



## Underock1

suze said:


> I don't know you long enough, but it doesn't seem like you're kidding to me.  I definitely feel like my life is over, or at least all the good stuff on bad days.  My husband and I had lots of plans--nothing elaborate, but we were married 29 years, and we're still very good friends who both dreamt of being that little old couple you see holding hands.  Then he died suddenly and life as I knew it was over. There are days when all I can see is what I've lost; not only my spouse, but my life plan.  I've been married almost my whole adult life. I was supposed to be married--part of a couple.  Like Tevye asked " would it spoil some vast eternal plan..." if I had my little garden variety marriage go on at least past retirement!
> 
> Suze



Your pain comes through. I truly hurt for you, Suze, as I hurt for myself. Who is the lucky one? The spouse or lover who passes or the one who is left alone? My wife is gone a year and a half and I am getting through the days pretty god now but what I wouldn't give to have her back. Even in the last months when she needed so much care. I was fortunate to have her 58 years. We did grow old together. Losing your life together at your stage is truly tragic. I am glad to see you have grandkids to love. That has to be a comfort.  I wish you peace.


----------



## suze

Thank you Ruthanne. Have a great day!

Suze


----------



## suze

Hi Underock1,
Nice to meet you.  Funny, I never thought about Greg being the "lucky one", but since I do believe in an afterlife that can be a comforting thought.  I guess I've been dwelling on what he's missing here on earth, like his hard-earned retirement, or the joy of his grandchildren growing up.  Thank you for opening up a new way of thinking about who is the lucky one.  My heart goes out to you too.  One thing I've learned since losing Greg is how devastating it is to lose a life partner.  I feel like going to all the people I know who lost their partners before I did, and try to make up for my underestimating their loss. Then I want to go to people who I observe arguing and barely tolerating each other and crack their heads together and say "you don't know how lucky you are", though I know I wouldn't have been able to appreciate that before my loss.
One day at a time!

Suze


----------



## Underock1

suze said:


> Hi Underock1,
> Nice to meet you.  Funny, I never thought about Greg being the "lucky one", but since I do believe in an afterlife that can be a comforting thought.  I guess I've been dwelling on what he's missing here on earth, like his hard-earned retirement, or the joy of his grandchildren growing up.  Thank you for opening up a new way of thinking about who is the lucky one.  My heart goes out to you too.  One thing I've learned since losing Greg is how devastating it is to lose a life partner.  I feel like going to all the people I know who lost their partners before I did, and try to make up for my underestimating their loss. Then I want to go to people who I observe arguing and barely tolerating each other and crack their heads together and say "you don't know how lucky you are", though I know I wouldn't have been able to appreciate that before my loss.
> One day at a time!Suze



I wish I could go back in the past and crack _our _heads together for all the times wasted in silly arguments over nothing. I wish your avatar was bigger. I'm guessing that's the two of you celebrating an anniversary.


----------



## senile1

SifuPhil said:


> A quote from Butterfly in another thread got me to thinking ...
> 
> 
> 
> I get this. In fact, I get it so strongly that I've had this feeling for the last 15 years or so.
> 
> For me, part of it is physical. I'm no longer 20 and can't do all the things I used to. Through nobody's fault but my own I've recently been whacked with a few medical problems, which once again I'm not used to, and it has caused me to start slipping off the bright, clean middle of that tapestry.
> 
> My choice to cut myself off from the world - another slip toward the edge.
> 
> Convincing myself that my days of close relationships are over - hanging onto the fringe, scrabbling, to keep from falling into that dark, wood-floored abyss.
> 
> And finally the 2-ton elephant giving me what seems to be the final push - that I have nothing to look forward to. I've had my education, my career, wrote my books, did my partying, made love under a full moon on the beach, got married, had kids, divorced, SCUBA dived, skydived ... I've lived my life, lived longer than my family. I've laughed and I've cried.
> 
> What's left? What can I look forward to? Old age? Sitting in a rocking chair or, worse, a hospital, somewhere? What's that? Living off a measly SS hand-out from the government that won't even pay for the cat food?
> 
> Have any of you ever had these dark thoughts?




I have always been an active person, constantly on the go. I actually ran full court basketball until I was in my mid 50's( knees put a halt to that). I have worked long hour's (12-16 hrs a day) for the best part of 40 years, strong as an ox. Last may (2015)I took a trip to Key West ,Florida, where I caught a virus, started as a simple cold. When I returned home , I went to my doctor and she told me it was just a virus. I struggled the complete summer with this "virus". then in September , I had congestive heart failure, rushed to the hospital, where I spent a week. Upon released ( my heart had gone into Afib, an accelerated heart rate for which I was given meds), everything was looking good, boom, another congestive heart failure, this time very serious, my lungs filled with fluid and I almost drown on the way to the hospital. Then a diagnoses from my cardiologist said the lower part of my heart had weakened, and that accompanied by an accelerated heart beat , we were counting my days.To accompany this, I lost my hearing in my left ear, from this also, pressure in my ear canal, leaving me with vertigo; did not seem to want to stop. I went into the hospital and had an ablation performed, within 5 weeks I was in regular heart beat , I just started some light running and light lifting. I am cleared by my cardiologist to return to work with no restrictions, pending my getting a hearing aide for my right ear, which suffered irreparable damage. Now this is not a sad story, tis part of life's journey, as I look forward to returning to a productive life. An illness and/or a disability, does not define who we are.


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## suze

Thanks.  It's an avatar of us at his parents' 50th.  I'm usually the picture taker now.
Yes, sometimes I wonder if we would have resolved some issues, how the24/7 existence of retirement would have been.  In the nine days from diagnosis to death there wasn't time to get to those things.  The scenario kept changing--we can treat him, we can't treat him, then boom!  Gone!  He got so sick so fast that all I could do was keep him comfortable.

suze


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## Underock1

suze said:


> Thanks.  It's an avatar of us at his parents' 50th.  I'm usually the picture taker now.
> Yes, sometimes I wonder if we would have resolved some issues, how the24/7 existence of retirement would have been.  In the nine days from diagnosis to death there wasn't time to get to those things.  The scenario kept changing--we can treat him, we can't treat him, then boom!  Gone!  He got so sick so fast that all I could do was keep him comfortable.
> 
> suze



Yes. The roller coaster. Our wind up took three months but hoping to bring her home. A sudden down turn, and gone within a couple of weeks. It seems crude and heartless to say, but again, in retrospect, it was a good thing. She never knew she was dying. Betterr than the long, slow declines with all sorts of painful desperate measures to stave off the inevitable.


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## SifuPhil

suze said:


> I don't know you long enough, but it doesn't seem like you're kidding to me.  I definitely feel like my life is over, or at least all the good stuff on bad days.  My husband and I had lots of plans--nothing elaborate, but we were married 29 years, and we're still very good friends who both dreamt of being that little old couple you see holding hands.  Then he died suddenly and life as I knew it was over. There are days when all I can see is what I've lost; not only my spouse, but my life plan.  I've been married almost my whole adult life. I was supposed to be married--part of a couple.  Like Tevye asked " would it spoil some vast eternal plan..." if I had my little garden variety marriage go on at least past retirement!
> 
> Suze



I kid a lot, Suze, but on this topic I was serious.

The strangest thing was, my life turned around yet again, after I had pretty much given up.

You just never know ...


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## suze

I've always said if a disease is going to be fatal, then it's better if it goes quickly, but then it happened to me, and I still do feel the same. Greg knew, but he said he felt good  spiritually, and he was so gracious about accepting his fate.  I was so proud of him.


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## Underock1

suze said:


> I've always said if a disease is going to be fatal, then it's better if it goes quickly, but then it happened to me, and I still do feel the same. Greg knew, but he said he felt good  spiritually, and he was so gracious about accepting his fate.  I was so proud of him.



Yes. How much easier he made it for you. I only hope I can be as gracious in the end. Acceptance is the key. I am intellectually there now. How I will be when the time comes is an open question.


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## Underock1

SifuPhil said:


> I kid a lot, Suze, but on this topic I was serious.
> 
> The strangest thing was, my life turned around yet again, after I had pretty much given up.
> 
> You just never know ...



Phil, you seem to indicate that something good has happened to you. If so, I would love to hear about it. I like it when the good guys are winning.


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## SifuPhil

Underock1 said:


> Phil, you seem to indicate that something good has happened to you. If so, I would love to hear about it. I like it when the good guys are winning.



Rock, it's my new relationship with Shalimar - that's what turned the corner for me. When you live a self-imposed 7 years as a "monk" - cutting yourself off from everything and everybody - you don't realize how much of your humanity you lose, and how bleak life can become.

She literally saved my life.


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## suze

Right after he died I felt like I was ready too, but as time goes by my hopelessness has lessened.  I've seen the devastation my grandbabies felt at losing their precious Papa, and I'd never forgive myself if self neglect caused them another loss.  I want to see them live their lives. Spiritually--being raised Catholic it's hard to separate  what I believe now, and the indoctrination of the priests and nuns.  I guess we'll never know till the end!

suze


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## SifuPhil

Luckily I wasn't exposed to the Christian point of view as a child - in fact, not until I was studying Metaphysics in college - so I don't have that particular baggage to deal with. My confusion comes from having been exposed to so _many_ belief systems - I too will not really know until the end.


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## Underock1

SifuPhil said:


> Luckily I wasn't exposed to the Christian point of view as a child - in fact, not until I was studying Metaphysics in college - so I don't have that particular baggage to deal with. My confusion comes from having been exposed to so _many_ belief systems - I too will not really know until the end.



Now me? I know, and I'm all ready.fftobed:


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## Underock1

suze said:


> Right after he died I felt like I was ready too, but as time goes by my hopelessness has lessened.  I've seen the devastation my grandbabies felt at losing their precious Papa, and I'd never forgive myself if self neglect caused them another loss.  I want to see them live their lives. Spiritually--being raised Catholic it's hard to separate  what I believe now, and the indoctrination of the priests and nuns.  I guess we'll never know till the end!
> suze



Yes. Whatever you do, don't take grandma away. Our twin grandsons were my wife's greatest joy. She was great! It was my pleasure to step back and watch her do her thing. She lived to see one married and a small envelope of her ashes will be in my son's pocket this November at the other's wedding.


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