# If A Woman Punches A Man, and He Hits Her Back, Is He Wrong?



## SeaBreeze (Jul 30, 2014)

First let me say that I don't think that any person has the right to physically assault another, unless in the case of self defense.  I worked with a woman who said if she hits her husband, he'd better not hit her back, because she's a woman.

Another case I knew of was an abused husband, whose wife was always aggressively punching, hitting, biting and even stabbing him.  He never hit her back, and never left her because he loved her.

I would never tolerate any physical abuse in my relationships, life is way too short to for that.  I would leave right away if I had to, or if needed, fight back until I could leave.

I've always been of the mindset that if I ever hit my husband/boyfriend, I would expect to be hit back.  Being a woman gives me no special rights to attack a man, or to be protected from retaliation if I did.  I respect my husband, and would never do that, but there are a lot of couples out there who get physical, many times for petty things.

What do you think?  Is a man ever justified in hitting a woman that just punched him....or is he obligated to hold back just because she's female?


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## kcvet (Jul 30, 2014)

no ive never hit a woman even though some ticked me off. ie my X was a mean SOB and she's the only one i came close to knocking thru the wall


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 30, 2014)

Did she ever hit or punch you Kc?


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## kcvet (Jul 30, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> Did she ever hit or punch you Kc?



came close but no. she did throw stuff at me.


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## Ina (Jul 30, 2014)

To me the first rule is to turn around and leave. But if you can't get away, then your left with defending yourself. I think this applies no matter your gender. If you must defend yourself, then do so only until you can leave the situation. :hiteachother:


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## SifuPhil (Jul 30, 2014)

Sea, are you talking legally or morally? 

Legally, if she throws the first punch then you have a right to defend yourself. That may or may not include punching back.

Morally, most of us guys were raised with the mantra "Never hit a lady". There's a lot of wiggle room there, because in most cases if they swing at you first they aren't much of a lady.

My viewpoint is going to be a bit skewed because of my work as a strip-club bouncer. I never feared facing a man, but women? Especially the crazy dancers? In that kind of atmosphere you could be fairly certain that they would throw the first punch. As a result of that I never had any compunction about hitting a female if they tried to hit me first. Otherwise, if faced with one that was being a bit too boisterous, I would use joint-locks to subdue them - much less damage, much more controllable (progressive resistance).


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## Lon (Jul 30, 2014)

I can see it happening as a instinctive reflex response. like ducking when something is thrown at your head. I damn near swung a round house punch at my wife when she pushed me off a curb on the street last year. She was mad at me for something.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 30, 2014)

Morally Sifu, strippers in a club are a whole different ballgame, especially with you as a bouncer.  I mean just a regular relationship, I wouldn't punch a man in the face, but if I did, I wouldn't be shocked to get it back in return.  I don't think my husband would hit me even if that happened, but if he did, I'd figure I deserved it.


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## hollydolly (Jul 31, 2014)

I always think if a woman punches a man she can't physically hurt him as much as if a man punched a woman, and so if he retaliated then it should be more of a restraint..I still think that in some ways. However, a lot of women these days are now as big as men, so if she is to hit him with full force then I think the man has every right to hit back. 

I really think some women can be very viscious playing on the fact that men are not supposed to hit a woman, but if a woman kicks a man in the crotch,  or smacks him over the head with an iron it must be horrendously difficult to just walk away and not retaliate. All power to the men who do, they are the strong ones.

So, in essence I'm absolutely against physical violence between a woman and a man  but sometimes there's little alternative!!


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## bulgyone (Jul 31, 2014)

There is no justification in a man hitting a woman, EVER!!....if the woman is that bad, get out of the relationship, just like most women would


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## hollydolly (Jul 31, 2014)

bulgyone said:


> There is no justification in a man hitting a woman, EVER!!....if the woman is that bad, get out of the relationship, just like most women would



Yes but it's not always domestic violence bulgyone. What if you were attacked by a woman who was a total stranger? A road rage incidence, or in a bar for example?


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## Ralphy1 (Jul 31, 2014)

Hey, there were girls punching me out in elementary school including my sisters...


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## bulgyone (Jul 31, 2014)

hollydolly said:


> Yes but it's not always domestic violence bulgyone. What if you were attacked by a woman who was a total stranger? A road rage incidence, or in a bar for example?



I'm sure most men could defend themselves, without resorting to hitting or punching a woman, although there are some big women about, and I mean heavy!!...I don't really know the answer hollydolly, very good question this


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## hollydolly (Jul 31, 2014)

You're right bulgyone, most men could resort to restraint or something, but a lot of men don't .

I once many years ago  saw a woman hit a man in a bar , first she slapped him so hard his head nearly rocked off his head, then she came at him again and punched him right in the face and he jumped up and put his arm out to protect his face while someone else tried to drag her off , she walked away and he started to leave the bar  and the next thing she came at him with a broken glass..he stretched out his arm as quick as lightening and smacked her full in the face, and she was knocked out clean on the floor!! What happened?...all the women in the bar started shouting at him saying he had no right to hit a woman!! *go figure* what was he supposed to do? 

Good topic by seabreeze!!


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## bulgyone (Jul 31, 2014)

hollydolly said:


> You're right bulgyone, most men could resort to restraint or something, but a lot of men don't .
> 
> I once many years ago  saw a woman hit a man in a bar , first she slapped him so hard his head nearly rocked off his head, then she came at him again and punched him right in the face and he jumped up and put his arm out to protect his face while someone else tried to drag her off , she walked away and he started to leave the bar  and the next thing she came at him with a broken glass..he stretched out his arm as quick as lightening and smacked her full in the face, and she was knocked out clean on the floor!! What happened?...all the women in the bar started shouting at him saying he had no right to hit a woman!! *go figure* what was he supposed to do?
> 
> Good topic by seabreeze!!



Maybe...just give her a BIG KISS...might work


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## hollydolly (Jul 31, 2014)

This video is interesting..


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## JustBonee (Jul 31, 2014)

bulgyone said:


> Maybe...just give her a BIG KISS...might work



Yeah, it might work ..

A sports news story currently running .. 
NFL football player Ray Rice of the Baltimore Ravens knocked out his fiancee in an elevator earlier this year, and dragged her out .. all caught on camera.  (She hit him first) 
He never got jail time, and she later married him.
The NFL only slapped him with a two game suspension,  and everyone is still shaking their heads! 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...avens-knocked-fiancee-unconscious-altercation


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## rkunsaw (Jul 31, 2014)

The 80 year old man in another discussion was hit by the woman. He took the appropriate action. 

At this stage of my life if a woman attacks me I'm gonna knock her on her ass.


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## hollydolly (Jul 31, 2014)

Another shorter example.. staged here in London..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E3xgEE8vNE


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## Davey Jones (Jul 31, 2014)

The key to punching any women back because she punched you *first* is to make sure you have a lot of witnesses before you beat the crap out of her.
Happened to me in college,she threw 1 punch to my nose I returned with 2 punches to the face and 1 to the shoulder. 
I got suspended for 2 weeks for being in a fight,she got expelled for 
starting the fight and throwing the first punch. I don't care what sex you are I will defend myself.
Im a mild mannered guy and it take a lot to get me really pissed off.


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## Falcon (Jul 31, 2014)

If I hadn't done anything to deserve it, I'd take greater satisfaction by taking her to court for

battery rather than retaliate by hitting her back.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 31, 2014)

hollydolly said:


> However, a lot of women these days are now as big as men, so if she is to hit him with full force then I think the man has every right to hit back.
> 
> I really think some women can be very viscious playing on the fact that men are not supposed to hit a woman, but if a woman kicks a man in the crotch,  or smacks him over the head with an iron it must be horrendously difficult to just walk away and not retaliate. All power to the men who do, they are the strong ones.
> 
> So, in essence I'm absolutely against physical violence between a woman and a man  but sometimes there's little alternative!!



I agree Hollydolly, well said!  I too am against violence by either party, and if the man can walk away without reacting that is best.  But, if he retaliates, I do not fault him after being attacked.  And yes, a lot of women are strong and capable of doing harm.

The videos were not really impressive.  A woman who is just repeatedly hitting with hand everywhere, swatting with newspaper, pushing, and yacking all the time she's doing it, does not seem very threatening.  I'm not surprised people walked past giggling, those guys did not look like they were even getting bruised.

Now, if they had a strong looking woman who appeared really angry, and she fake punched him in the face a couple of times 'till he fell to the ground.  Then once on the ground she repeated kicked him in the groin and head, then that may have gotten a different reaction.  Before a serious attack like that goes too far, I think the man has the right to hit back and stop the assault.

I'm not a man-hater, not all men are jerks at all.  Some women definitely do take advantage of the fact that if the man hits back, he will be in jail, or some "hero" will come out of the woodwork and beat him up for her.  Even some women with road rage are more likely to get verbally aggressive and abusive more than a man would, because it's less likely that somebody would come over to her and punch her in the face, like they would a man who did the same thing.



rkunsaw said:


> The 80 year old man in another discussion was hit by the woman. He took the appropriate action.
> 
> At this stage of my life if a woman attacks me I'm gonna knock her on her ass.



I agree with you Rkunsaw, that the 80 year old man took the appropriate reaction, as I said in the other thread, his only failure was not to take care of her while she was still in his home.  I'm glad that you would knock a woman attacker down, better than getting a broken collarbone from her, or worse.


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## hollydolly (Jul 31, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> The key to punching any women back because she punched you *first* is to make sure you have a lot of witnesses before you beat the crap out of her.
> Happened to me in college,she threw 1 punch to my nose I returned with 2 punches to the face and 1 to the shoulder.
> I got suspended for 2 weeks for being in a fight,she got expelled for
> starting the fight and throwing the first punch. I don't care what sex you are I will defend myself.
> Im a mild mannered guy and it take a lot to get me really pissed off.



Sorry Davey but 3 punches from a man (2 to the face) to a woman sounds to me like a bit of an over reaction..don't mean to be rude..(I don't want ya hitting me lol)..but really , you say you're mild mannered and it takes a lot etc , but one hit to you from a woman  and you floored her  with several punches, ... what?


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## MrJim (Jul 31, 2014)

I think the real issue here is relative size.

If you're a fairly big guy with a lot of strength & body mass & the woman is significantly smaller than you, then no, you shouldn't hit her back. Unless she's hitting you with a baseball bat or something like that.

On the other hand, if you're a more average sized guy & the woman is equal to or larger than you & she wallops you first, then hey... all bets are off. A good right hook across the chin might make her think twice about hitting you again.

I used to be friends with this guy who was known for having a temper. To make things worse, he was pretty big & made his living as a block mason. Tough, fast reflexed SOB with big damned fists, who took very little crap off of anyone. Had this gal who stayed at his house with him for about a week or so. I came over one day, she was gone & there were dented in spots in a couple of his walls. I asked him what happened & he told me that they got into an argument & SHE started smashing HIS head against the wall!!!

:rofl:

So, of course I asked him what he did & said nothing. He wasn't gonna hit a woman. Mostly because he knew that if he did, he'd have been the one to go to jail for it.

But we had fun ragging him about it for awhile.


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## MrJim (Jul 31, 2014)

hollydolly said:


> Sorry Davey but 3 punches from a man (2 to the face) to a woman sounds to me like a bit of an over reaction..don't mean to be rude..(I don't want ya hitting me lol)..but really , you say you're mild mannered and it takes a lot etc , but one hit to you from a woman  and you floored her  with several punches, ... what?



No offense to the ladies, but if you're a guy, you should be able to fairly easily deflect any attempt at hitting you made by most women, to the point that she'll see that it's no use or just tire herself out & give up.

Of course, the smart thing to do would be to let her scratch you once, so that if she calls the cops & tries to claim you struck her for no reason, you can point to it as evidence to the contrary & threaten to charge her with assault too.


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## Mrs. Robinson (Jul 31, 2014)

Funny you should ask this question. The female half of a couple we know was arrested last weekend for beating up her husband. This couple started hanging around with my daughter and her group of couple friends last winter and seemed to get along great. But lately they haven`t been around and my daughter said she was being flaky about her hair appointments (she`s my daughter`s hairdresser). I thought something must be going on with them. Sure enough,she showed up on the sheriff`s logs Sunday morning. Our friend who works at the jail heard that she really beat the cr*p out of him at their home-he was not arrested so obviously had not hit her back-or hit her first. She is 5`4" and 220 pounds according to her booking info but he`s no little guy either. But she did tell my daughter once that she LOVES to fight!


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## rkunsaw (Aug 1, 2014)

Size or gender has nothing to due with it. If I'm attacked I will fight back. Period. Some folks seem to enjoy being the poor helpless victim. Not me!


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## MrJim (Aug 1, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> Size or gender has nothing to due with it. If I'm attacked I will fight back. Period. Some folks seem to enjoy being the poor helpless victim. Not me!



So, if some skinny little 4'-10", 95 lb gal started clubbing at you with her tiny, delicate little fists that weren't likely to even cause a small bruise on you, you'd deck her?

Honestly, I kinda doubt that you would.


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## Davey Jones (Aug 1, 2014)

hollydolly said:


> Sorry Davey but 3 punches from a man (2 to the face) to a woman sounds to me like a bit of an over reaction..don't mean to be rude..(I don't want ya hitting me lol)..but really , you say you're mild mannered and it takes a lot etc , but one hit to you from a woman and you floored her with several punches, ... what?



Im mild mannered now but in college at 19years old :sentimental:I was ready to take on the whole world.


In the heat of any fight with ANYONE your mind only focus on one thing,beat the hell out that person that hit you first,and that is still true today.
To put your mind at ease Ive never been in any fights since then,I tend to just walk away. (My wife really hated that).


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## Davey Jones (Aug 1, 2014)

MrJim said:


> So, if some skinny little 4'-10", 95 lb gal started clubbing at you with her tiny, delicate little fists that weren't likely to even cause a small bruise on you, you'd deck her?
> 
> Honestly, I kinda doubt that you would.



If an adult hits you then they should expect some kind of reprisal. How many hits that person receives depends on the puncher and his/her state of mind at that time.


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## MrJim (Aug 1, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> If an adult hits you then they should expect some kind of reprisal. How many hits that person receives depends on the puncher and his/her state of mind at that time.



I found some film from back in your college days.

Didn't know you'd spent time in the ring.... :rofl:


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## SifuPhil (Aug 1, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> Morally Sifu, strippers in a club are a whole different ballgame, especially with you as a bouncer.  I mean just a regular relationship, I wouldn't punch a man in the face, but if I did, I wouldn't be shocked to get it back in return.  I don't think my husband would hit me even if that happened, but if he did, I'd figure I deserved it.



Okay - morally, if a woman hit me I'd hit her back. Gender doesn't matter to me - only intent. A woman can hurt or kill a man quite easily, almost as easily as a man can hurt a woman. It's all in the intent, the strength, the speed and the training.

To sum up, I've gotten over my childhood socialization training and now recognize that an attacker is just that - an attacker. Gender doesn't mean a thing to me when I'm facing an opponent.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 1, 2014)

And, just another thought - y'all are talking one-on-one here. How about if you're walking down a city street at 2 in the morning and you're confronted by a gang of vicious 17-year-old girls?

Tell me you're not going to "hit a lady" ... 

Women are often worse than men when it comes to fighting. Men have that conditioning to overcome - women, no such thing. They bite, scratch, hit you with whatever objects are around, kick you in the pills, fish-hook your lips ... men, for the most part, think that employing such tactics against another man are somehow "dishonorable".


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 1, 2014)

Good points Phil, and I agree, an attacker is an attacker.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 1, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> Size or gender has nothing to due with it. If I'm attacked I will fight back. Period. Some folks seem to enjoy being the poor helpless victim. Not me!





Davey Jones said:


> If an adult hits you then they should expect some kind of reprisal. How many hits that person receives depends on the puncher and his/her state of mind at that time.



I agree with both of you, what's the expression? "You get what you give"?


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## SifuPhil (Aug 1, 2014)

Well, I'm going up to the church bazaar tonight - we'll see if the theory fits the application.

... some of those nuns are _scary_ ... :cower:


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## Davey Jones (Aug 1, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> And, just another thought - y'all are talking one-on-one here. How about if you're walking down a city street at 2 in the morning and you're confronted by a gang of vicious 17-year-old girls?



Who the hell walks down the city street at 2am? Unless you're totally drunk.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 1, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Who the hell walks down the city street at 2am? Unless you're totally drunk.



LOL!

People on second shift? Insomniacs? Bartenders, waitresses, security people, newspaper delivery people, taxi drivers ... 

At least in NYC there was a huge population of people on the move at any hour.

And it doesn't necessarily have to be at 2am anymore - now it happens in broad daylight.


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## Warrigal (Aug 2, 2014)

Is this the sort of thing you fellows have been talking about.
It is possible that she slapped him first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d44tauDODjE


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## SifuPhil (Aug 2, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Is this the sort of thing you fellows have been talking about.
> It is possible that she slapped him first.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d44tauDODjE



He's a football player - they have immunity from any charges over here. 

Seriously - the accounts say his fiancee spit at him, so he knocked her out. I'd stick this one in the domestic violence category.


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## Warrigal (Aug 2, 2014)

Other accounts say that the CTV shows both hitting each other with their hands. 
Both have been charged with assault.
If she hit him first, is he entitled to strike back ?


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## hollydolly (Aug 2, 2014)

This is a bit grainy, but hopefully you can see it .

A  despicable  foul mouthed 20 year old woman along with her gang of friends punching an 80 year old man a stranger to her  to the ground in Coventry England, then spitting on him as he lay on the floor.

The old man died 3 months later but no definite  link between the attack and his death could be proven so she got off lightly with a 2 year sentence after a nationwide search for her. It seems she was a serial criminal!!


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## Misty (Aug 2, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Well, I'm going up to the church bazaar tonight - we'll see if the theory fits the application.
> 
> ... some of those nuns are _scary_ ... :cower:



:lol: Hope you made it back home without a Nun attack, Phil.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 2, 2014)

Misty said:


> :lol: Hope you made it back home without a Nun attack, Phil.



No nun attacks, thank Buddha! A few priests were eyeing me up in my black outfit but nothing came of it. 

I DID buy $20 worth of food and when I got home discovered I received only $16 worth - they left out the sausage and peppers. 

So ... I had to make do with just the two cheeseburgers, two chili dogs, fries and 6 pierogies.


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## Davey Jones (Aug 2, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> He's a football player - they have immunity from any charges over here.
> 
> Seriously - the accounts say his fiancee spit at him, so he knocked her out. I'd stick this one in the domestic violence category.



 Even if a woman spits at me I am going to retaliate with anger.
Unlike years ago todays saliva could kill you.


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## hollydolly (Aug 2, 2014)

Did anyone see the  video I posted above with the woman beating the old man and spitting on him?


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 2, 2014)

I saw it Holly, there's a few of them out there, probably many cases we don't hear about.  Some women beat their husbands to death, they start with punching, then move to knives, guns or hammers, etc.


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## Denise1952 (Aug 2, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> First let me say that I don't think that any person has the right to physically assault another, unless in the case of self defense.  I worked with a woman who said if she hits her husband, he'd better not hit her back, because she's a woman.
> 
> Another case I knew of was an abused husband, whose wife was always aggressively punching, hitting, biting and even stabbing him.  He never hit her back, and never left her because he loved her.
> 
> ...



The movies always glamourized this sort of thing, I mean the comedies, or romantic (supposedly no abusive) ones.  For myself, I've always figured if I hit someone, I better be expecting to get hit back, so I don't hit.  When I was in highschool, my boyfriend was flirting, being flirted with, and we were both drinking.  I got upset and cried, blubbered, and slapped him.  He turned and walked away from me.  I never felt so ashamed in all my life and never hit a guy again since.  It wasn't all romantic like the movies made it look


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## Denise1952 (Aug 2, 2014)

hollydolly said:


> Did anyone see the  video I posted above with the woman beating the old man and spitting on him?



No, I'm not sure I could stand to look at it Dolly  That's just so wrong, omg


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## Denise1952 (Aug 2, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> The 80 year old man in another discussion was hit by the woman. He took the appropriate action.
> 
> At this stage of my life if a woman attacks me I'm gonna knock her on her ass.



Good for you, I haven't watched the video, I can't stand to see it if it's what I expect, I hate seeing anyone beat anyone  I watched a movie not long ago and was sorry I did.  This guy was trying to find his son so he was beating a guy he "knew" took his kid.  Turns out the guy didn't take the child at all, made it even worse, horrible


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## Denise1952 (Aug 2, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I saw it Holly, there's a few of them out there, probably many cases we don't hear about.  Some women beat their husbands to death, they start with punching, then move to knives, guns or hammers, etc.



It's true SB, such violence is going on "out there" and I am guilty of trying not to look.  I don't feel I can do anything about it all so I don't want to see, but if it happens in my part of the world etc. even at my age I'll do something.  When I was young, there was a guy getting beat up on one of our small-town streets.  He was a butt-head, the town butt-head, but it didn't matter, they were not right in ganging up on him. I literally drove my car up on the sidewalk to scare them off him, I have no idea how it all worked, but they scattered and I yelled for him to get in.  Yep, now that I look back, kind of like a movie.  Only time in my life I actually felt like I rescued someone.  Crazy broad that I am, LOL!!


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 2, 2014)

Thank goodness for crazy broads like you Denise, kudos! Glad you weren't hurt. :love_heart:  :yougogirl:


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## Denise1952 (Aug 2, 2014)

Well it takes one to know one so kudos to you too SB!!  :yougogirl:


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 2, 2014)

I was a bit crazy, especially when I was younger, and it would put me in protection mode if I saw somebody was being abused, either verbally or physically.  Never experienced a gang fight like that though, hopefully I would have thought quickly like you did.  Bet the guy was grateful!


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## Denise1952 (Aug 2, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I was a bit crazy, especially when I was younger, and it would put me in protection mode if I saw somebody was being abused, either verbally or physically.  Never experienced a gang fight like that though, hopefully I would have thought quickly like you did.  Bet the guy was grateful!



I don't know, dont' think I ever saw him again, I do remember when he got in he said "drive" LOL!!


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## Ina (Aug 2, 2014)

I think all people should learn self defence. I have a half brother, (11 months older), that thought it was his mission to annihilate me. 
When I was seven, he hit me in the forehead with a steel bed railing, causing a nine month stay at John Sealy Hospital. When I was nine he broke my back while playing leapfrog. He didn't jump over. I spent a year at the Shriner's Children's Hospital.
These kind of episodes went on until one day when I was 27, and he decided to throw me into a wall or mirrors. He was 5'11" and 220 in weight. I was 5'5" and 105 in weight. 
Something snapped inside me and when it was over, he was the bloody one. 
I really don't recall much of the fight, we were in a full VFW Hall for a Saturday night dance, and the folks there said they had never seen anything like it. They told me I had picked up a broken table leg from the table I had landed on, and I used it on him. 
I wasn't proud of my actions, but at least his tormenting took on a different method. Best of all fhe emergency visits and hospital stays stopped. :hiteachother:


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## hollydolly (Aug 2, 2014)

Good for you Ina, a lifetime of bullying and the worm turned. Sorry you had to go through all of that .((hugs))

I also had my back broken by my father 7 days after I had my daughter and was still in a wheelchair after a traumatic birth, and one of my brothers' was also a bully. He would punch and kick for the fun of it just simply if he was walking past. so I know how it must have felt for you. My father has died now but needless to say I have no contact at all now with my brother


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## Denise1952 (Aug 2, 2014)

Ina said:


> I think all people should learn self defence. I have a half brother, (11 months older), that thought it was his mission to annihilate me.
> When I was seven, he hit me in the forehead with a steel bed railing, causing a nine month stay at John Sealy Hospital. When I was nine he broke my back while playing leapfrog. He didn't jump over. I spent a year at the Shriner's Children's Hospital.
> These kind of episodes went on until one day when I was 27, and he decided to throw me into a wall or mirrors. He was 5'11" and 220 in weight. I was 5'5" and 105 in weight.
> Something snapped inside me and when it was over, he was the bloody one.
> ...



That's horribly your own brother abused you, I say good for you for nailing him.


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## Ina (Aug 2, 2014)

Holly, You and I just had to help ourselves, whatever it took. I hope you and your child had no lasting complications. Bullies have to be stopped, they don't stop on their own. 
It's weird, but after our mother died, when we were 43 & 44, my brother found I was his last relative, except for his son who wouldn't talk to him because he beat his mother.
 My brother came to my house, and begged for a chance to be a better brother. Now you would think there was no bad feelings ever.


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## hollydolly (Aug 2, 2014)

Well I really admire for you for being so forgiving Ina , you're a better person than me.

I couldn't ever forgive or forget. My child is ok thank goodness, but I have the lasting effects from the back problem to this day unfortunately.

As my daughter was an only child, I sent her to Martial arts classes when she was very small, so that if ever she had anyone tried to abuse her physically she stood a sporting chance. She's very capable now as a Champion Kick boxer, and MMA fighter!


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## Misty (Aug 2, 2014)

Ina said:


> I think all people should learn self defence. I have a half brother, (11 months older), that thought it was his mission to annihilate me.
> When I was seven, he hit me in the forehead with a steel bed railing, causing a nine month stay at John Sealy Hospital. When I was nine he broke my back while playing leapfrog. He didn't jump over. I spent a year at the Shriner's Children's Hospital.
> These kind of episodes went on until one day when I was 27, and he decided to throw me into a wall or mirrors. He was 5'11" and 220 in weight. I was 5'5" and 105 in weight.
> Something snapped inside me and when it was over, he was the bloody one.
> ...



That's terrible you suffered such awful abuse, Ina, and you have a very big heart to be able to forgive your brother. If that would have happened in these days, the hospital would be investigating all the abuse you suffered at your brother's hands.  My heart goes out to you :love_heart:


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## Ina (Aug 2, 2014)

Misty, I find that hating others ends up hurting me the most. Now my brother will protect me at the drop of a hat now. My first husband stalked me from the age of 15, until my brother went to his house when I was 45, and made the ex understand what was going to happen if he ever harmed me again.
So for me things got better on both accounts. I know how to protect myself, and I will protect my home. :wave:


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 2, 2014)

Ina and Hollydolly, my heart goes out to both of you for having to experience such physical abuse, and from family members no less.


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## Ina (Aug 2, 2014)

Sea, The hardest thing is not losing faith in the goodness of people. Michael says that is why I get hurt so often, that I give people to much credit for being carering, loving people. But I'd rather believe in that goodness that see every one as conniving and manipulating. :wave:


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 2, 2014)

You have a good attitude Ina, it is very healthy inside and out. :love_heart:


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## romfty (Aug 3, 2014)

..................only if she is bigger than him!


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## Davey Jones (Aug 3, 2014)

Just a swift kick in the nuts will take any man ,big or small totslly down.
Never did find out where a woman's weakest spot was.


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## MrJim (Aug 3, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Just a swift kick in the nuts will take any man ,big or small totslly down.
> Never did find out where a woman's weakest spot was.



Ruin her shoes.

She'll go into such a deep depression, she won't be able to move for a week.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 3, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Just a swift kick in the nuts will take any man ,big or small totslly down.
> Never did find out where a woman's weakest spot was.



Surprisingly enough, not always.

I've seen a few guys take a full frontal assault to the pills and they just keep going. That's why those self-defense classes that emphasize that defense are wrong, in addition to the fact that most guys are going to instinctively guard themselves there.

A woman's weak spot (in general, of course) is pretty much the same as a man's - the groin.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 3, 2014)

Ina said:


> Sea, The hardest thing is not losing faith in the goodness of people. Michael says that is why I get hurt so often, that I give people to much credit for being carering, loving people. But I'd rather believe in that goodness that see every one as conniving and manipulating. :wave:



Bless you - I'm 180 degrees away from your outlook.


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## Ina (Aug 3, 2014)

Phil, Your not so far from me, or you wouldn't have been a student or teacher. You have to be open to all possibilities or you couldn't have been either. You are also a sensitive person, or you couldn't empathize with others, which you do. :hide:


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 3, 2014)

Here's a mom with a healthy punch given to a skate boarder after he ran into her son.  He stopped to help the boy, and the mother was PO'd...can't say I blame her, but hitting is not the answer.


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## Ina (Aug 3, 2014)

Yeah, She was wrong, she did stop to consider that the young man was taking responsibility, and trying to see if he could help. Now if she would have had to chase him down, then I might be able to understand her anger.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 3, 2014)

That was wrong on her part but understandable in the heat of the moment.

Kudos to the skater who just walked away.

Maybe Mom should keep her little one on a shorter leash in what appears to be more of a skate park than a playground ...


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## Warrigal (Aug 3, 2014)

No Phil, what would have been understandable would be for her to check her child for injuries first.
Her response was more aggression than defence. It was not protective behaviour.

And you are correct in saying that the safety of the child is her responsibility. 
The collision was an accident but I don't think her eyes were on the child or she would know that.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 3, 2014)

Ina said:


> Yeah, She was wrong, she did stop to consider that the young man was taking responsibility, and trying to see if he could help. Now if she would have had to chase him down, then I might be able to understand her anger.



I agree she was absolutely wrong, but just wanted to show that a woman can easily deliver a pretty good punch to a man.  If she can given him a couple more, he would have been hurtin'.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 3, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> No Phil, what would have been understandable would be for her to check her child for injuries first.
> Her response was more aggression than defence. It was not protective behaviour.



I was referring to the animal-like nature of humans.

If you attack a mama lion's cubs, she doesn't stop to check on them first - she goes straight for your jugular, and only after you're dealt with does she go back and lick their wounds.

Same with many humans. 



> And you are correct in saying that the safety of the child is her responsibility.
> The collision was an accident but I don't think her eyes were on the child or she would know that.



I wouldn't want to meet _her_ in a dark alley, that's for sure. :cower:


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## Warrigal (Aug 4, 2014)

That's stretching the human/carnivore analogy a bit too far.
The incident we have looked at only really required a growl from the mother, not a full blown assault.
Something like, "Why don't you watch where you're going?", would have been sufficient.

I'm as fiercely protective of my young as most but a child knocked over by accident does not immediately evoke a fight response.
Children suffer minor hurts often and the parent has to help them to bounce back. 
Pick them up, rub or kiss the sore spot, and tell them that they are OK is a better lesson than starting a street fight.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 4, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> That's stretching the human/carnivore analogy a bit too far.
> The incident we have looked at only really required a growl from the mother, not a full blown assault.
> Something like, "Why don't you watch where you're going?", would have been sufficient.
> 
> ...



Just goes to show that you've evolved a wee bit more than the mother in the video. 

I've seen this happen far too many times in person to doubt my theory. Some people lack the "societal filter" and go directly into combat mode. We also don't know the mood of that mother at that particular moment - maybe she just received divorce papers, or lost the winning lottery ticket ...


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## Warrigal (Aug 4, 2014)

I suspect she is generally aggressive. Not much to do with maternal instinct.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 4, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I suspect she is generally aggressive. Not much to do with maternal instinct.



Agreed.


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