# Transitioning to Veganism/Vegetarianism



## Keesha (May 20, 2020)

Transitioning to Vegan/Vegetarianism

No they aren’t the same but eliminating meat is certainly the dominating factor for both.

Veganism is the elimination of all animal based products

Vegetarianism is the elimination of animal based meat.

Positive side effects of going vegan/vegetarian :

1/. Sudden rise in energy levels
2/. Become more regular
3/. Improved body odour
4/. Tan like glow - rosier cheeks from the beta carotene in vegetables
5/. Clearer skin
6/. Shinier hair
7/. Fewer PMS symptoms ( not something most of us ladies need to worry about )
8/. Tastebuds come to life
9/. New cravings for different foods
10/. Clearer focus and concentration
11/. A boost in creativity
12/. Better performance in sports activities/ more endurance
13/. Higher libido
14/. A sense of relief knowing you are making a positive change for yourself , the animal kingdom and the planet itself.


Neutral Side Effects of Going Vegan/Vegetarian :

Changes in weight but not necessarily weight loss

Negative Side Effects of going vegan/ vegetarian:

1/. More frequent trips to the bathroom
2/. Gas and tummy discomfort
3/. A change in body odour - either positive or negative
4/. Skin rashes or acne
5/. Trouble sleeping
6/. Strong cravings for animal products
7/. Feeling hungry more frequently
8/. Feel fatigued
9/. Headaches
10/. Emotional ups & downs

Note: the negative side effects are temporary.
Here is more information about this which includes helpful links.

https://www.brownble.com/blog/2016/3/1/vegan-101-vegan-side-effects-what-to-expect-when-you-go-vegan

There’s seems to be many health conscious members here who don’t eat animal products and it’s a lifestyle I’d really like to adopt and transition into so starting this afternoon I’m going vegan/ vegetarian.

The reason why I add them both is that although I may have an easy time eliminating animal meat, I might still eat  eggs and other animal by products while transitioning and I don’t want to pressure or disappoint myself.

Anyway this thread is for those who want to transition also and for those who already ARE vegan/vegetarian. They might want to pitch in and offer  tips.

The GOAL of this thread is offer support to those wanting to transition to a vegan/vegetarian lifestyle. Yes it’s not just changing food choices;its a complete lifestyle change.

Personal goals:

1/. A serious lifestyle change
2/. To lose weight
3/. Better body hygiene
4/. Cleaner teeth
5/. Peace of mind knowing I’m not consuming dead animals
6/. Save money
7/. More creativity  with food preparation and variety
8/. Clearer skin
9/. Shinier hair
10/. Energy boost
11/. Less pain from eating anti inflammatory foods
12/. Less mucus from eliminating dairy
13/. Better concentration



Gluten free vegan pizza that I had tonight.


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## treeguy64 (May 20, 2020)

As a gourmet vegan chef, and a vegetarian for forty-two years, vegan for the last twenty-seven, I'm here for anyone who needs some info on cooking, and living the lifestyle.


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## Kaila (May 20, 2020)

In general, with dietary changes, of various types,
 I would suggest focusing as much as possible , on adding foods that you _can_ eat and enjoy, within your new goals,  and increasing the ones you already eat, that do still fit your new goals, and adding new variations and combinations of those, too.   (( Focus less on  what you can't eat, is what I mean, and more on what you can, and make idea lists of what you _can enjoy eating!)_)

Pay attention to getting enough protein, and your usual or optimal balance of foods. For fewer cravings.

Planning in advance to have on hand, substitutions that you'd actually enjoy, for the times when you ordinarily might have something you now want to avoid, or when you might miss them.

The idea is to feel less deprived of an old favorite or habit, and instead to pay attention to the new options, that are interesting and positive and even, fun. Good luck, Keesha.


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## Happyflowerlady (May 20, 2020)

I have been slowly making this transition, too, @Keesha , and I am glad that I am doing it.  I tried just becoming a vegan all at once, but quit, so I decided to just “sneak up on it” a little at a time. 
At this point, I am mostly vegetarian, occasionally have fish or chicken, but am adding as many vegetable and fresh foods as possible, and eating raw foods more,  things that can be eaten raw. My goal is to be at least 80% fresh and raw. 

One book that really inspires me is Victoria Boutenko’s book, Green For Life.  You can get it online , or probably at the library.  The Boutenko family also are on YouTube, and I really enjoy listening to her son, Sergei Boutenko.  He is an exceptionally interesting speaker, and also talks about foraging fresh greens, if you are into doing that. 

Here is one of his videos that explains how he and his family transitioned from their unhealthy diet and sick bodies to health and happiness with lots of Whole Foods and green smoothies.  
It looks long, but once you start, you won’t even notice the time go by...... it is that interesting !


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## treeguy64 (May 20, 2020)

I became a vegetarian by simply stopping the eating of meat, one day. I  didn't do any planning, one way or the other. As I found foods that I liked, that were vegetarian, I deconstructed them, and made my own, better, healthier, versions. I did pay attention to how I felt after eating any new foods.

I've been vegetarian longer than most whom I've met, at forty-two years. Being vegan for the last twenty-seven years, I've also been walking that walk for a good while. If I had to make elaborate plans, one way or the other, I doubt things would have gone as smoothly as they did, for me.

I stopped eating animals,  and using most products made from them, because, at twenty-five, I became acutely aware of the suffering we put other species through, never mind the suffering we put our own species mates through.

Nobody needs to eat animals, weird genetic conditions notwithstanding, so save the hostile replies about your Aunt Esther who can only eat meat. Additionally, ten pounds of grain only turns into one pound of meat, so the planet would be better fed by eliminating the middle man/animal.


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## Happyflowerlady (May 20, 2020)

One thing that I really enjoy is fresh salads, but I just do not have a lot of luck with my lettuce greens growing well, and I enjoy foraging out in the yard for edible greens, like dandelion greens and plantain leaves. 
I do grow some Malabar spinach, which is not a true spinach, but will grow in hot weather and not bolt like regular spinach greens. It is great to add to fresh salads.


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## Keesha (May 20, 2020)

Oh noooo! Can we please not get into how cruel humans can be? That’s something I’m all to aware of and while I understand it’s a tragic concern, I  wanted this thread to be an uplifting one. A thread to encourage others who want to transition.

I want it to be filled with photos of delicious vegetarian foods that inspire us to try them.
Please, please don’t post pictures of animal cruelty in this thread. it’s trigger material that haunts me to the core


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## MarciKS (May 20, 2020)

That shot of those pigs is disturbing. I feel bad for the animals but, I gotta eat. Sorry.
My question is this...you stated an increase in energy. It was my understanding that certain fats are good for you. To help you burn calories and fat. So are you saying that meat makes you have less energy? And if you're vegetarian, do you still eat fish?


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## treeguy64 (May 20, 2020)

I must echo K's words. *Please don't post horrendous pictures of animal abuse*! That pic with the poor pigs will now haunt me, tonight, absolutely no lie.


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## treeguy64 (May 20, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> That shot of those pigs is disturbing. I feel bad for the animals but, I gotta eat. Sorry.
> My question is this...you stated an increase in energy. It was my understanding that certain fats are good for you. To help you burn calories and fat. So are you saying that meat makes you have less energy? And if you're vegetarian, do you still eat fish?


WTF? You gotta eat? Sorry? Uh, what!?

I gotta eat, too. I don't kill animals, or support those who do so, though. And the odds are, I eat better, healthier, than most people on this planet. 

 As for vegetarians eating fish, do they grow on trees?  Man........


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## MarciKS (May 20, 2020)

It was a simple question.  I'm actually interested. Why do you have to be so snotty?


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## Keesha (May 20, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> That shot of those pigs is disturbing. I feel bad for the animals but, I gotta eat. Sorry.
> My question is this...you stated an increase in energy. It was my understanding that certain fats are good for you. To help you burn calories and fat. So are you saying that meat makes you have less energy? And if you're vegetarian, do you still eat fish?


Are you talking to me?
I took the information from the link. 
If you read the information in the link, it explains the difference between animal fats and other fats. There are links within the article so it’s quite thorough in its references.


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## Happyflowerlady (May 20, 2020)

I have removed the awful picture, and apologize for posting it. I agree with having this be an uplifting thread, @Keesha , and I didn’t mean to do something wrong.
Asking forgiveness .....


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## treeguy64 (May 20, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> It was a simple question.  I'm actually interested. Why do you have to be so snotty?


I was offended by your "I gotta eat. Sorry."  Implied was that you need to kill animals in order to eat. That's rubbish, plain and simple.


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## Keesha (May 20, 2020)

Thank you kindly HappyFlowerLady. 
Greatly appreciated.


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## treeguy64 (May 20, 2020)

Well, I guess I'm done on this thread, when it comes to discussing the animal abuse side of the vegetarian/vegan issue. Too much emotion, for me to keep going there 

I'm still here for diet/cooking info.


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## Keesha (May 20, 2020)

Happyflowerlady said:


> I have been slowly making this transition, too, @Keesha , and I am glad that I am doing it.  I tried just becoming a vegan all at once, but quit, so I decided to just “sneak up on it” a little at a time.
> At this point, I am mostly vegetarian, occasionally have fish or chicken, but am adding as many vegetable and fresh foods as possible, and eating raw foods more,  things that can be eaten raw. My goal is to be at least 80% fresh and raw.
> 
> One book that really inspires me is Victoria Boutenko’s book, Green For Life.  You can get it online , or probably at the library.  The Boutenko family also are on YouTube, and I really enjoy listening to her son, Sergei Boutenko.  He is an exceptionally interesting speaker, and also talks about foraging fresh greens, if you are into doing that.
> ...


Yes Victoria Boutenko - Green for Life. Isn’t she into the ‘raw food’ evolution? 

Here’s her website? 


https://responsibleeatingandliving.com/favorites/victoria-boutenko-green-smoothie-magic/

At one time I considered going on a raw food vegan diet but that would be too much of a transition for me at the moment. Like you I need stages, which I think is the general idea of transitioning. Besides which I’m truly looking forward to cooking vegetarian and vegan foods. I’d like to learn from people already doing it. 

I’m looking for a good healthy smoothie recipe though so I’ll have a look. 

Thanks HappyFlowerLady


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## Keesha (May 20, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> I became a vegetarian by simply stopping the eating of meat, one day. I  didn't do any planning, one way or the other. As I found foods that I liked, that were vegetarian, I deconstructed them, and made my own, better, healthier, versions. I did pay attention to how I felt after eating any new foods.
> 
> I've been vegetarian longer than most whom I've met, at forty-two years. Being vegan for the last twenty-seven years, I've also been walking that walk for a good while. If I had to make elaborate plans, one way or the other, I doubt things would have gone as smoothly as they did, for me.
> 
> ...


What types of meals do you make?
Would you be able to give us an example of what your food would consist of in a single day; from breakfast to dinner?
What are your favourite things to make?
Of course I’m in no hurry for the info.
No rush.


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## Happyflowerlady (May 20, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Well, I guess I'm done on this thread, when it comes to discussing the animal abuse side of the vegetarian/vegan issue. Too much emotion, for me to keep going there
> I'm still here for diet/cooking info.



I apologize to you also, @treeguy64 . I have completely deleted my post, and do not mean to cause you to leave this thread. I will just bow out of the thread .  
Your input is as an expert, and I am just a beginner stumbling my way along the path , and just learning a little more each day.


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## Keesha (May 21, 2020)

Happyflowerlady said:


> One thing that I really enjoy is fresh salads, but I just do not have a lot of luck with my lettuce greens growing well, and I enjoy foraging out in the yard for edible greens, like dandelion greens and plantain leaves.
> I do grow some Malabar spinach, which is not a true spinach, but will grow in hot weather and not bolt like regular spinach greens. It is great to add to fresh salads.
> 
> View attachment 105737


You know I never knew about Malabar spinach. I’ve never grown any spinach so didn’t realize they wilt but do know that lettuce can wilt in extremely hot weather. I’m going to keep my eye out for this.
Thanks for adding it.

Yesterday I picked up some good quality probiotics


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## Keesha (May 21, 2020)

Happyflowerlady said:


> I apologize to you also, @treeguy64 . I have completely deleted my post, and do not mean to cause you to leave this thread. I will just bow out of the thread .
> Your input is as an expert, and I am just a beginner stumbling my way along the path , and just learning a little more each day.


Please don’t bow out of this thread. I appreciate your input especially when I comes to health and food related topics. You are very knowledgeable in these areas. In fact I was torn between starting a new thread and posting in the one you started about ‘Eating a plant based diet.’  I’ll add the one you started to this thread. We can all learn from each other.
https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/eating-a-plant-based-diet.35480/


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## treeguy64 (May 21, 2020)

Yesterday - - -

Breakfast: Bowl of oatmeal with soy milk, grilled soysage patty pre-flattened in a tortilladora, slice of toasted garlic bread, slice of vegan provolone. Vitamins: C, D3, Glucosamine, Saw Palmetto, Niacin/Red Yeast Rice (in daily alternation), ¼ tab Aspirin. Tall glass of filtered water.

Lunch: Cubed tofu, broccoli, mushrooms, sauteed, placed on a bed of rice with cilantro. Vitamins: D3, L-Arginine. Tall glass of filtered water.

Dinner: Baked potato, dab of vegan sour cream, dab of vegan margarine, caramelized onions, sauteed squash. Glass of (3 tbsp.) organic tomato puree, mixed with filtered water, dash of vegan Worcestershire, squeeze of lime, teaspoon of Vodka, celery stick stirrer. Sliver of frozen cherry pie.

Bedtime vitamins: D3, probiotic, B12, lemon balm, magnesium. Glass of filtered water.

By no means is the above invariable. I eat what the spirit moves me to make. I love cooking, and try new ideas in the kitchen that pop into my head, out of nowhere. Rarely do I consult cookbooks, online or my own.

I go out to restaurants only because of the social experience that Janet and I enjoy. CV19 has ruined that, for me, lately, but Janet still wishes to boldly go, so we'll see what happens with that, in due time.


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## Keesha (May 21, 2020)

A slice of provolone ? Interesting. I thought provolone was more like a creamed cheese. Vegan sour cream? I should have looked for that when I went to the huge health food store yesterday.

From your food suggestions, I gather that you have a selection of stores that cater to your preferences. That’s one thing I’m very thankful for. While we have a small local health food store, we have two large health foods stores about 1/2 an hour away. They have a large variety of items. 

Plus I really appreciate using fresh herbs. Luckily it’s the season for growing our own herbs but I think this winter I’m going to try and grow some in my greenhouse. I’ve got a portable shelf greenhouse which fits in my large greenhouse that might work.

Fresh Cilantro year round would be nice.



Thanks treeguy


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## treeguy64 (May 21, 2020)

K, you're thinking of mascarpone, Italian cream cheese.

Provolone can be used, interchangeably, for mozzarella, in many recipes.


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## treeguy64 (May 21, 2020)




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## Keesha (May 21, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> K, you're thinking of mascarpone, Italian cream cheese.
> 
> Provolone can be used, interchangeably, for mozzarella, in many recipes.


Ya. Probably. I certainly don’t know all my cheeses.

So provolone could be used on pizza perhaps. I’ll keep that in mind. Don’t they have milk in them?


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## treeguy64 (May 21, 2020)

Keesha said:


> A slice of provolone ? Interesting. I thought provolone was more like a creamed cheese. Vegan sour cream? I should have looked for that when I went to the huge health food store yesterday.
> 
> From your food suggestions, I gather that you have a selection of stores that cater to your preferences. That’s one thing I’m very thankful for. While we have a small local health food store, we have two large health foods stores about 1/2 an hour away. They have a large variety of items.
> 
> ...


I use Natural Grocers, Whole Foods, HEB, International Foods, 99 Ranch, Sprouts.

I am concerned about the grocery stores that are present in any town Janet and I may move to. 
Woodland Park, CO., has a Natural Grocers, so I'll probably be fine. There's a Whole Foods in Colorado Springs. Cool.


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## treeguy64 (May 21, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Ya. Probably. I certainly don’t know all my cheeses.
> 
> So provolone could be used on pizza perhaps. I’ll keep that in mind. Don’t they have milk in them?


Not the vegan version.


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## StarSong (May 21, 2020)

Hubby & I went cold turkey (so to speak) from omnivores that were heavy on the meats and cheeses to full vegan/plant based in under a week.   We were inspired by the movie _Vegucated, _which we watched for no particular reason - it happened to be on Netflix and looked interesting.  Intrigued, we then watched _Forks Over Knives, _which was also available on Netflix. That one sealed the deal.

In no particular order, our motivations have been our physical health, animal cruelty issues, and the terrible destruction of our planet caused by the raising, housing, feeding, disposal of waste matter, slaughtering, etc., of livestock. (How could anyone could work in a livestock processing plant? I'd cry or throw up every day. Probably both.)

My everyday diet is Whole Food Plant Based. I'll rarely eat a little fish - perhaps once every three months.  And I do eat some cheese and butter over the holidays, but less every year.  My body doesn't manage dairy very well anymore.  Each year I figure out how to convert more cookie recipes to non-dairy versions, which is trickier it appears on the surface.

We lost weight moving to WFPB, our numbers are better, and we feel healthier. One son & DIL are strict vegans, our daughter and her family are moving toward vegetarianism and our other son is a keto eater. Each of us has to find our own pathway. 

Much as I embrace this way of eating, I can't claim a tan-like glow (requires A LOT of beta carotene and is generally considered a signal to cut back on the carrots), or that my skin is clearer, my hair shinier, my tastebuds have changed, or most other things on the list in post #1. 

Weight loss was a definite plus for me. Lost 20-25 lbs and hubby took off 40 . 

After the first week, none of negative effects hit me either. Well, other than being hungry more often, but I don't see that as a bad thing. I LIKE to eat, so getting to snack between meals makes me happy. 

By the way, @treeguy64 is a wealth of great information on vegan cooking. Although I was pretty deep into WFPB foods by the time we met on these boards, I've sure learned a lot from him. He's been so generous about taking time to explain cooking techniques, offering flexible recipes that use up what's in your fridge or pantry, and providing lots of encouragement. 

Please let us know how you're doing on this, @Keesha!


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## Keesha (May 21, 2020)

If I lived alone I’d probably be vegetarian. My mans favourite food is meat. Every meal revolves around meat and if there’s no meat in it he doesn’t want it. For most of our relationship, I’ve been the cook so changing my diet has a huge impact on my significant other and there’s no way he wants to change but that’s ok with me.

If I lived on my own I’d probably have become vegan decades ago. Friends of mine went to New Zealand and the only work they could find was at a slaughterhouse. They came back much thinner and strict vegetarians. They said that most people would be vegetarian in they knew what was done to animals before it gets served on a plate and while this IS a big part of why many don’t eat meat, I’d prefer not to get into too much detail about this. Animal cruelty  is VERY disturbing.

My main reason is for health benefits and so I no longer have to cook meat. I’d really like learn how to cook vegan meals and I don’t think it’s going to be difficult because most of my meals ARE meatless. I eat a lot of salads, stir fry’s, and pasta dishes which are meatless. My body doesn’t digest dairy well which is why I eat cashew ice cream but I do have small amounts of cheese now and again.
Luckily the new store I’ve been going to has the nicest selection of imitation cheeses if there’s a recipe that truly requires it.

The list made of possible benefits was taken from the link given since I’ve never actually been vegetarian for more than a week or two at a time. My main plan of action is to just stop eating meat which I know I can do. Eliminating eggs will take some getting used to but I’m not suppose to eat lecithin and eggs contain a large amount. 

It’s only been a day so far but I’m looking forward to making my own gluten free, vegan pizzas, burritos, chillies, soups and possibly flat breads requiring no yeast.

Treeguy is definitely the most educated on this topic that I know of so I was hoping he’d pitch in but I was also hoping you would too Starsong. The thread wasn’t made to try and convert anyone or guilt anyone out about their own personal food preferences. I hope it becomes a reference page to help others who might be interested.


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## Marie5656 (May 21, 2020)

*I can appreciate eating a vegan/vegetarian diet. It is so much healthier.  I find that now that I am  only responsible for myself as far as food buying and meal prep, my style has changed.  I eat much more grains, fresh and frozen vegies and fruits. I am aware of ingredients, fats, etc.
I will have to say, I will never completely eliminate meat from my diet (please no negative response to this. My choice) but I eat much less of it.  *


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## MarciKS (May 21, 2020)

Keesha have you had the vegan mayo? I tried that at work one day. Not bad at all. I also like making spaghetti with spaghetti squash and tofu. Good stuff.


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## MarciKS (May 21, 2020)

Marie5656 said:


> *I can appreciate eating a vegan/vegetarian diet. It is so much healthier.  I find that now that I am  only responsible for myself as far as food buying and meal prep, my style has changed.  I eat much more grains, fresh and frozen vegies and fruits. I am aware of ingredients, fats, etc.
> I will have to say, I will never completely eliminate meat from my diet (please no negative response to this. My choice) but I eat much less of it.  *


I don't eat as much as I used to. I actually like a lot of things without meat anymore.


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## Keesha (May 21, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Keesha have you had the vegan mayo? I tried that at work one day. Not bad at all. I also like making spaghetti with spaghetti squash and tofu. Good stuff.


No I haven’t tried any vegan mayo. I usually use Hellman’s Real Mayo. All pasta is vegan. It’s the sauce that’s either got meat in it or not but recently I have been eating lots of zuchinni noodles. I’ve got one of those noodle makers that are as much fun to make as they are to eat. I cut the noodles so they aren’t endless. Spaghetti squash is great. 
What type of sauce do you use?


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## MarciKS (May 21, 2020)

Keesha said:


> No I haven’t tried any vegan mayo. I usually use Hellman’s Real Mayo. All pasta is vegan. It’s the sauce that’s either got meat in it or not but recently I have been eating lots of zuchinni noodles. I’ve got one of those noodle makers that are as much fun to make as they are to eat. I cut the noodles so they aren’t endless. Spaghetti squash is great.
> What type of sauce do you use?


I usually look for something vegetarian in a jar unless doing homemade which I haven't done in ages. I add my tofu to it.


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## MarciKS (May 21, 2020)

Whenever we have meatless Monday's in the grill at work I usually try the stuff. I like some of the vegetarian burgers. Some of the vegetarian chicken leaves a little to be desired.


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## StarSong (May 22, 2020)

Keesha said:


> No I haven’t tried any vegan mayo. I usually use Hellman’s Real Mayo.* All pasta is vegan*. It’s the sauce that’s either got meat in it or not but recently I have been eating lots of zuchinni noodles. I’ve got one of those noodle makers that are as much fun to make as they are to eat. I cut the noodles so they aren’t endless. Spaghetti squash is great.
> *What type of sauce do you use?*


Most commercial pasta contains eggs, so it isn't strictly vegan. In a practical sense, some things aren't worth splitting hairs over, and this is often one that I let slide right on by. 

I've found that WFPB eating falls under that category of the pursuit of perfection being the enemy of good enough. IMHO, If you're 95% vegan, the animals will thank you, your planet will thank you, and your body will thank you.  Over the course of a year, my calorie intake is probably 98% plant based, allowing myself the flexibility of occasional real cheese, butter or egg whites makes this doable and keeps me from feeling deprived.    
(WFPB eating isn't a marriage - I didn't stand before God and my relatives and swear unwavering fidelity to it.)  

As for sauces, besides meatless tomato sauce, I like a little vegan butter and a sprinkle of vegan parm over hot pasta, sometimes adding defrosted, uncooked peas - they taste like little bursts of sunshine!  Another favorite is (shrimp-less) scampi sauce with cubes of tofu.

Mostly though, when it comes to pasta I just make up a batch and refrigerate it.  It's great here and there, punching up other dishes. I put some in soups (just before eating so it stays al dente), salads, and wherever else the spirit leads me.

Right now I'm on a Greek salad kick.  Romaine, kalamata olives, (vegan) feta, fresh tomatoes, Persian cucumbers, red onion, and a starch (garbanzo beans or rice or pasta), dressing and oregano.  Soooo good.


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## Keesha (May 22, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Most commercial pasta contains eggs, so it isn't strictly vegan. In a practical sense, some things aren't worth splitting hairs over, and this is often one that I let slide right on by.
> 
> I've found that WFPB eating falls under that category of the pursuit of perfection being the enemy of good enough. IMHO, If you're 95% vegan, the animals will thank you, your planet will thank you, and your body will thank you.  Over the course of a year, my calorie intake is probably 98% plant based, allowing myself the flexibility of occasional real cheese, butter or egg whites makes this doable and keeps me from feeling deprived.
> (WFPB eating isn't a marriage - I didn't stand before God and my relatives and swear unwavering fidelity to it.)
> ...


Yes you’re right. I should have said vegetarian.
This is where I lack a lot of education and need the most help is in the hidden egg and dairy category which is why I purposely added vegetarianism in the title, otherwise I’d get down on myself. Since I eat gluten free pasta, all my pasta is egg  free too and since I’ve been gluten free for so long I forget that most others aren’t. Perhaps this could work to my advantage.

Greek salad is awesome as is Caesar but then there’s the dairy thing. Most feta cheese has dairy in it as does Caesar dressing but I’ve found that feta cheese made from goats milk doesn’t affect me the same as regular feta cheese made from cows milk and Greek salad dressing is great with an olive oil vinaigrette. In fact many pasta dishes taste amazing with an olive oil dressing with sautéed vegetables and fresh herbs added. The Caesar salad dressing I’ll have to work on but I bet the new fresh food store I’m shopping at has a dairy free vegan version or I’ll learn to make my own.

Vegan Parmesan cheese? Even better. This is actually going to be much easier than I first realized. When I told my husband I was transitioning, the sheer panicked look or his face was like I just told him I’m dying of cancer or something but he got over it and will be supportive.

I’m actually enjoying the adventurous possibilities vegan eating offers and feel better about the transition already. It’s not just a change in diet ; it’s a change in lifestyle which I welcome with open arms. I think I’m going to head out to this new store and pick up some vegan cheeses because now I want a fresh Greek salad. It’s one of my favourites. Those crunchy red onions, olives, tomatoes, cucumber , red peppers, dried oregano with olive oil vinaigrette. I’ve got most things here already.

My latest vegan kick has been stir fry’s. I love those things but I’m starting to get stir fried out lately. On to new discoveries. This is so exciting. Thanks for the tips and ideas Starsong. 

P.S. Just noticed you have vegan feta cheese. Good stuff. Now I know my store will most likely have it too. Luckily for me , I LOVE vegetables. ❤


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## StarSong (May 22, 2020)

@Keesha, it sounds like you've got a very reasonable plan sketched out.  I, too, love veggies.  Also fruits.  My go-to breakfast is a stir fry.  Every 3 days-ish, using 2 tsp of homemade chili oil, I saute onions, garlic, zucchini, snow peas, bell peppers, and sweet potatoes or carrots that I've partially softened in the MW.  This wonderful melange stays in my fridge. 

In the morning I portion some out into a frying pan, then add brown rice and tofu (both of which I make up in advance), shredded cabbage and/or shredded broccoli (again, prepped in advance), sliced mushrooms, bok choy, young napa cabbage, spinach or other greens, and whatever else is lurking in my vegetable drawer and strikes my fancy. A tablespoon of sweet and sour sauce or low sodium soy sauce and I'm good to go.

One of my go-to dinners when I can't think of anything else.... old fashioned oatmeal (the kind you cook for 5 minutes) with some unsweetened applesauce mixed in. I pour that over a big bowl of berries and cut-up fresh fruit. Top with cinnamon and a teaspoon of my go-to sweetener (half sugar, half stevia). Really delicious, filling and good for the body.


----------



## Keesha (May 22, 2020)

@StarSong
Your stir fry sounds delicious. It would seem like you add the rice and tofu into the stir fry and cook it all at once similar to a Chinese rice minus the tofu. That’s interesting. It’s great that you have this first thing in the morning. It’s filled with nutrition. Stir fry’s really need to be eaten fresh. Reheating a stir fry isn’t the same. Vegetables aren’t as crisp and it’s often somewhat soggy. I’ve got to use gluten free sauces and I’m not too fond of soy sauce so use a spicy peanut sauce as well as olive oil & sesame oil.
It’s a great combination that works for me. Besides  the gf stuff sort of sucks. Love snow peas, mini corn cobs & water chestnuts in stir fry’s for added crunchiness .


There’s nothing like slow cooked steel cut oats cooked with apples and cranberries with a dash of cinnamon. I prefer the longer cooking  ones but unfortunately it’s uncertain whether oats are gluten free. Some people can eat them and some people can’t. I’m one who can’t so I’ll probably substitute quinoa. It’s not the same but it can be quite tasty depending how it’s made.

So thanks for reminding me how much I like Greek salad. Later this afternoon I went to my new whole food store and picked up some cheeses, some vegan caesar  salad dressing, red onions, romaine lettuce and vegan sour cream. I’m already craving nachos.

Anyway I made Greek salad for dinner tonight. I couldn’t find any vegan feta cheese but did find feta cheese made from sheep’s milk and it tasted great. There was no bloating. Since I don’t much fancy black olives I used green ones. I’ve got those jumbo ones but they have pips in them.

The vinegarette was made from olive oil, balsamic vinegar, thyme, oregano, a pinch of mustard powder and black pepper. After adding the dressing I added the dried oregano. Heavenly.

Some time soon I’m going to made a gluten free pizza crust and after it’s  cooked add homemade pesto sauce and vegan provolone cheese.

Now I’m looking forward to Caesar salad made with vegan Caesar dressing along with homemade gf seasoned croutons and instead of Parmesan cheese , grated artisan goat cheese: a ripened firm cheese.

Planning meals and being extra conscious of what I’m eating is making me feel better already. My energy level is roaring, mental clarity improved and taste buds already livening up.

I figured out that the biggest change was when my husband started staying home 75% of the time. Not that I’m blaming him for throwing off my eating habits. For some reason I slacked off and started eating more of what he eats. I’ll stop there. At least I’ve noticed the reason why my eating & exercise habits changed and have made the needed adjustments for my own health and well being.

For sweeteners I use Truvia stevia since it has no after taste and taste better than pure sugar. Pure maple syrup made by Mennonites, unpasteurized honey and organic blue agave syrup.

Note: I’ve cut out all regular candies and don’t crave them.


----------



## Happyflowerlady (May 22, 2020)

I signed up for a produce delivery service called Misfits Market. They source organic and non-GMO fruits and veggies direct from the farmers and send them to you fresh. It is produce that has a blemish or unusual shape and can’t be sold in grocery stores, but is fresh and all organic, and naturally grown; so really healthy stuff. 

  My first one arrived today, and it had a great variety of fruits and veggies , so for dinner tonight, I am having a fresh smoothie with carrots and kale, pineapple and mango. It was easy healthy, and delicious !

Here is everything that came in my box ....... over 20 lbs of produce !


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## Ruthanne (May 22, 2020)

Thank you @Keesha for this thread and all who have contributed.  The support here of the vegan/veggie lifestyle is giving me new incentive to go back to it.  I, all too well, know the horrors of the meat industry and have been an animal champion for many years.  I was vegetarian for 10 years and don't even know why I went away from it but I am going to start my way back to a vegetarian way.  

I eat lots of meat alternatives already but would like to learn more recipes and new ideas on it.  I so appreciate this thread!  🐿


----------



## Kadee (May 22, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> As a gourmet vegan chef, and a vegetarian for forty-two years, vegan for the last twenty-seven, I'm here for anyone who needs some info on cooking, and living the lifestyle.


I’m not even sure if we have a recipe section on this forum ,I’d love a few hints on vegetarian cooking I’ve tried in the past however I don’t like tofu I’ve tried cooking it and I reckon chewing my socks would taste better than that I’ve bought vegetarian “meat “ it’s way to salty for my tastes ( Our diet consists of mostly food bought fresh and cooked at home ) No foods like Ham /bacon/ preserved type foods like them.

I cook a small batch of barley from time to time and mix it with veggies we are having for tea.and sometimes I’ll just have veggies and make an instant sauce to have with them.
I’ve also made chick pea patties which I like.

I don’t think I’d ever give meat away altogether.
Thanks in advance @treeguy64

Thanks for your ideas as well @Keesha your choices in food sound delicious


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## treeguy64 (May 22, 2020)

Today - - -

Breakfast: Two, homemade (no)eggrolls, two, store-bought, canned dolmas, slice of garlic bread, vitamins, water.

Lunch: Homemade, Asian-style soup: Bok Choy, mungbean sprouts, thin-sliced, baked tofu, toasted sesame oil, low-sodium soysauce, crispy onions topping (natural bag snack HEB), vitamins.

Dinner: Rice noodles with charred corn, homemade white chocolate/macadamia nut, low-gluten (spelt) cookies.

Nighttime vitamins


Kadee46 said:


> I’m not even sure if we have a recipe section on this forum ,I’d love a few hints on vegetarian cooking I’ve tried in the past however I don’t like tofu I’ve tried cooking it and I reckon chewing my socks would taste better than that I’ve bought vegetarian “meat “ it’s way to salty for my tastes ( Our diet consists of mostly food bought fresh and cooked at home ) No foods like Ham /bacon/ preserved type foods like them.
> 
> I cook a small batch of barley from time to time and mix it with veggies we are having for tea.and sometimes I’ll just have veggies and make an instant sauce to have with them.
> I’ve also made chick pea patties which I like.
> ...


Please see my hints for preparing tofu, properly, elsewhere on this site. Those who make very negative comments about it, have failed to learn how to properly prepare it. 

Keep in mind that vegetarian versions of animal flesh products do not have to be salty, at all, if you make them yourself. Seitan, tempeh and baked, very firm tofu, sold in Asian markets, all lend themselves to mock meat dishes, and you control the amount of salt you use. I use zero, most often.


----------



## Marie5656 (May 22, 2020)

*I am definately enjoying the conversation and food tips.  As I said before, I still eat some meat, but want to add more recipes packed with vegies and stuff.  
@Happyflowerlady  so, you like Misfits? I have heard of it, and did look over the website. Do you get to choose which vegies are in your box, or do you get what they send?*


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## Kadee (May 22, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Today - - -
> 
> Breakfast: Two, homemade (no)eggrolls, two, store-bought, canned dolmas, slice of garlic bread, vitamins, water.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you about my negative comments about tofu. @treeguy64
I have tasted while eating out at a small vegetarian shop ( where I live ) and at a cafe , however who ever cooked it obliviously needed cooking lessons just like me when it comes to tofu ( it was hard and dry ) 
I wish I could taste it somewhere where it’s cooked as it should be as I like soy products


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## Happyflowerlady (May 22, 2020)

Marie5656 said:


> *I am definately enjoying the conversation and food tips.  As I said before, I still eat some meat, but want to add more recipes packed with vegies and stuff.
> @Happyflowerlady  so, you like Misfits? I have heard of it, and did look over the website. Do you get to choose which vegies are in your box, or do you get what they send?*



Misfits sends you a selection of whatever produce they have for that week, so you never know what you will be receiving.  I was going to join before, but put it off, and then along came the hoarding, and I think everyone must have signed up, because I was on the waiting list for almost a month. 
This is my first box, and it was impressive. You can choose between 2 sizes of boxes, and have a delivery every week or every 2 weeks. 
If you want to have organic produce, I think this is a great idea, plus it keeps “non-beautiful, but edible”  food from just being thrown away and wasting good fruit and veggies. 

Here is the website, and it explains everything about how it works. 

https://www.misfitsmarket.com/


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## StarSong (May 23, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Breakfast: Two, homemade (no)eggrolls, two,* store-bought, canned dolmas*, slice of garlic bread, vitamins, water.
> 
> *Please see my hints for preparing tofu, properly, elsewhere on this site. Those who make very negative comments about it, have failed to learn how to properly prepare it.*
> 
> Keep in mind that vegetarian versions of animal flesh products do not have to be salty, at all, if you make them yourself. Seitan, tempeh and baked, very firm tofu, sold in Asian markets, all lend themselves to mock meat dishes, and you control the amount of salt you use. I use zero, most often.



Canned dolmas! Aren't you a genius, @treeguy64! I don't know why I haven't picked them up at Trader Joe's recently, but they're going on my list for next time!

I love soups and make them often. Sometimes I'll open a can of Progresso as a base, adding veggies, tofu, rice, whatever, turning it into more of a stew than a stew.

By the way, Tofutti's cream cheese is the very best vegan version I've had. Ditto their sour cream.


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## StarSong (May 23, 2020)

My fridge is stocked with food components that I've made ahead.  Like Flip Wilson's line, "When you're hot you're hot, when you're not you're not!", when I'm hungry I want to very, very soon.  When I'm not hungry I'm not particularly interested in cooking.    

That's why I always have tofu prepped and ready in the fridge, a melange of starter veggies (onions, garlic, summer squash, snap peas, bell peppers, carrots, etc.), and fruit that's easy to eat out of hand or already sliced and good to go.

Fresh bell peppers aren't always in my crisper, but there's a stock of mixed bell peppers in my freezer, which is what I use in my starter mixture.  No, they're not wonderfully crisp, but they still contain lots of vitamins and good flavor.  My freezer strategy is another example of giving up perfection for good enough.  I'd mostly do without BPs if I didn't use frozen because fresh ones go south so quickly.  My freezer is stocked with with green beans, peppers, broccoli, sliced green onions, cauliflower, mango chunks, out-of-season berries, cherries that I've pitted and halved, tomatoes from our garden, and more.   

Oftentimes the fridge contains fresh versions of these fruits and veggies, but when it isn't there's there's no need for us to do without. 

@treeguy64 loves to cook. I don't hate it, but I sure don't love it either. Prep work makes it easy to eat well when I'm hungry. Otherwise I'd be consuming a whole lot more PB & J or hummus on crackers and calling them a meal.


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

Vegetarian Stir Fry 

Ingredients :

Extra virgin olive oil 
Sesame oil 
Thai-style peanut sauce 


Garlic, fennel root, celery , red pepper, broccoli, pea pods, mushrooms, water chestnuts , brussel sprouts, zuchinni, mini corn cobs. 

Cook garlic in olive oil, add all other ingredients except for zucchini and sauté until cooked to your desire. I prefer crunchy vegetables so mine are only cooked for several minutes. Add sesame oil and peanut sauce 


then zuchinni noodles and cook for 1 1/2 more minutes. Sprinkled with sesame seeds and fresh ground pepper.

Breakfast is either nothing or fresh fruit since I’m not hungry in the morning and prefer my morning walk on an empty stomach. 

Note: the Thai style peanut sauce has no peanuts in it.

If I’m hungry later I’ll usually eat a couple of rice cakes with almond butter or sunflower seed butter. 

Coffee: if I do drink coffee I add hazelnut or vanilla Silk Almond which is dairy and soy free. 
It’s much richer than almond milk and is very cream like.


The rest of my liquids are usually water with ice.


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## MarciKS (May 23, 2020)

Is that thai peanut sauce spicy hot?


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## StarSong (May 23, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Vegetarian Stir Fry
> 
> Ingredients :
> 
> ...


This looks delicious, but I'd be starving less than an hour later without a fair sized portion of starch, too.  Brown rice, quinoa, sweet potatoes - something like that.  The protein and fat in tofu also helps a meal stick with me, especially since I use very little added oil or fat - like less than 2 tsp a day.


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## MarciKS (May 23, 2020)

StarSong said:


> This looks delicious, but I'd be starving less than an hour later without a fair sized portion of starch, too.  Brown rice, quinoa, sweet potatoes - something like that.  The protein and fat in tofu also helps a meal stick with me, especially since I use very little added oil or fat - like less than 2 tsp a day.


That's my problem is always being hungry on this kind of diet. A guy I work with makes himself a protein shake with a helping of fiber powder to help make him feel full.


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Is that thai peanut sauce spicy hot?


It’s mildly spicy which is perfect for me.


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

StarSong said:


> This looks delicious, but I'd be starving less than an hour later without a fair sized portion of starch, too.  Brown rice, quinoa, sweet potatoes - something like that.  The protein and fat in tofu also helps a meal stick with me, especially since I use very little added oil or fat - like less than 2 tsp a day.


For me it’s very filling. I’ve eaten one portion and later when I’m hungry after gardening I’ll eat the other portion. Normally I add a handful of cashews but we are out of them plus I use quite a bit of oil. Generous amounts of oil oil and sesame seed oil; without eating any sugar I can easily process them.


----------



## StarSong (May 23, 2020)

Keesha said:


> For me it’s very filling. I’ve eaten one portion and later when I’m hungry after gardening I’ll eat the other portion. Normally I add a handful of cashews but we are out of them plus I use quite a bit of oil. Generous amounts of oil oil and sesame seed oil; without eating any sugar I can easily process them.


Ah, that makes sense.  Wouldn't work for me though - my body doesn't tolerate added oils and fats too well - they cause serious IBS flareups.


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Ah, that makes sense.  Wouldn't work for me though - my body doesn't tolerate added oils and fats too well - they cause serious IBS flareups.


It just goes to show we are all so very different. My body processes plant based oils exceptionally well and does my hair, nails and skin a lot of good. My body doesn’t process soybean too well so we are once again polar opposites. My symptoms are more in the bloating category so not as serious but I am a diagnosed celiac so do need gluten free which cuts down on many choices.


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## Ruthanne (May 23, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Vegetarian Stir Fry
> 
> Ingredients :
> 
> ...


I am currently having unsweetened soymilk in my coffee.  I also like unsweetened almond milk.  And those pictures are making me hungry!


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> I am currently having unsweetened soymilk in my coffee.  I also like unsweetened almond milk.  And those pictures are making me hungry!


I use almond milk and coconut milk for other things. Here is today’s dessert since I do have a bit of a sweet tooth.

Frozen banana
Tbsp. of almond butter
A few Frozen cherries

Throw in blender until at desired consistency
Topped with berries and sprinkled with stevia


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## MarciKS (May 23, 2020)

Looks yummy


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

It is.


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## peppermint (May 23, 2020)

I'll go what my Dad always said...To each is own!!!!

I don't eat a lot of meat...And never did....Maybe some turkey on thanksgiving....I don't eat hot dogs...And some of the bottle things,
when I read what is in the bottles....I gag!!!  I love my veggies....But just to remind everyone, wash your veggies...Even if they are in
a tight bag...I don't trust it....I never eat mustard, I can't even smell it....I don't eat liver, even though my Mom always told me it's very
good for you....Ugh!!!  I must say, Ill eat pizza everyonce and a while....Give me a chocolate bar...and give me a nice cup of ice cream....
And a cup of coffee with a Bagal….OK, beat me up....


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## MarciKS (May 23, 2020)

@peppermint I usually eat chicken mostly. Other than that I eat meatless dishes like pasta and pizza. Problem is what to do if you're vegetarian and diabetic. The carbs would be too much I would think.


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

peppermint said:


> I'll go what my Dad always said...To each is own!!!!
> 
> I don't eat a lot of meat...And never did....Maybe some turkey on thanksgiving....I don't eat hot dogs...And some of the bottle things,
> when I read what is in the bottles....I gag!!!  I love my veggies....But just to remind everyone, wash your veggies...Even if they are in
> ...


That’s great that you are eating ‘your’ food preferences. It’s what you like and what you feel comfortable eating.

That’s what I’m doing also. That’s what everyone does. We are all attracted to what we feel is best for us. Some people can eat everything with no consequences and some people can’t. Some people have metabolic disorders like diabetes, celiac disease, trimethlaminuria or irritable bowl syndrome.

Maybe some are going through chemotherapy. Others might have liver or kidney dysfunction. We all eat a diet composed of a variety of foods. Some people need to follow a restricted diet for certain reasons, psychological ones included.


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> @peppermint I usually eat chicken mostly. Other than that I eat meatless dishes like pasta and pizza. Problem is what to do if you're vegetarian and diabetic. The carbs would be too much I would think.


If you have type 1 or 2 diabetes, choosing to be vegetarian can be a healthy option. Research has shown that following a vegetarian diet can help safely manage diabetes. 

https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/veganism-for-people-who-have-diabetes

https://www.everydayhealth.com/type-2-diabetes/diet/vegan-diet-good-diabetes/

70 tasty vegetarian dishes for the diabetic 
https://www.tasteofhome.com/collection/diabetic-vegetarian-recipes/

I’m celiac and transitioning. It’s possible.


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## MarciKS (May 23, 2020)

I like these noodle alternatives but do they have any that are like actual noodles?
https://www.healthline.com/health/5-low-carb-veggie-pasta-recipes-for-summer#12


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## MarciKS (May 23, 2020)

Ok here's another question...if you make a vegan cupcake that is sugar free would that reduce the carbs any?

This was off that 2nd link...
"Experts agree that, for a vegan diet to be effective, it must be carefully thought out. “French fries could be vegan, or we can eat a vegan cupcake — but both still have sugars and a high number of carbs,” Chaparro says. “The key words [are] well-planned, well-balanced, and a nutritious vegan diet.”


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I like these noodle alternatives but do they have any that are like actual noodles?
> https://www.healthline.com/health/5-low-carb-veggie-pasta-recipes-for-summer#12


What about zoodles.( zuchinni noodles)  Today I had these for my stir fry. These aren’t cooked 


but you could steam these for about a minute or two and have them with spaghetti sauce. Here’s a few more ideas

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/food-recipes/healthy/g4347/zucchini-noodle-recipes/


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Ok here's another question...if you make a vegan cupcake that is sugar free would that reduce the carbs any?
> 
> This was off that 2nd link...
> "Experts agree that, for a vegan diet to be effective, it must be carefully thought out. “French fries could be vegan, or we can eat a vegan cupcake — but both still have sugars and a high number of carbs,” Chaparro says. “The key words [are] well-planned, well-balanced, and a nutritious vegan diet.”


My suggestion is to research recipes and cater them to your specific needs. You can find recipe sites that will disclose how many carbs , how many calories, fats, proteins etc. Doing this along with monitoring your blood sugar levels should be effective.


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## MarciKS (May 23, 2020)

Yes I've had those. I like them.


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## Keesha (May 23, 2020)

Which part ?


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## MarciKS (May 23, 2020)

Sorry...the zoodles.


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## StarSong (May 24, 2020)

I made zoodles when they first became popular, then decided I needed half pasta / half zoodles to avoid being crazy hungry shortly afterwards.  Pretty soon I came to the conclusion that my body & appetite know the difference between pasta and zucchini.  It isn't fooled by non-starchy veggies pretending to be starch.  Not by zoodles, and definitely not by spaghetti squash (gag). 

I learned over time that veggie and fruit carbs do not make me gain weight, despite their bad reputation. Sweets, fats and animal products do. Hard to believe, but true. 

If I eat grains, beans, legumes, fruits and veggies until sated, my scale rewards me and I feel healthy. If I throw in some cookies, crackers, chips, sugar (even "natural" sugars like honey, agave, molasses, etc.), processed foods, chocolate, oils, dairy or other animal products, the scale becomes my mortal enemy and my body feels crappy.


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## Aneeda72 (May 24, 2020)

My daughter became a vegan as a teenager.  It’s very hard to be vegan.


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## StarSong (May 24, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> My daughter became a vegan as a teenager.  It’s very hard to be vegan.


Less so than it used to be though.  Of course, that probably depends a lot on where one lives.  In large cities like LA, and smaller cities with a high percentage of young people (Austin, TX), most restaurants and grocers offer a nice array of vegan selections.  

Even so, there are thousands of websites, books and cookbooks, Facebook groups, forums and other social media options, YouTube videos, etc., that support and advise about veganism and Whole Food Plant Based diets. 

Is your daughter still a vegan?


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 24, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Less so than it used to be though.  Of course, that probably depends a lot on where one lives.  In large cities like LA, and smaller cities with a high percentage of young people (Austin, TX), most restaurants and grocers offer a nice array of vegan selections.
> 
> Even so, there are thousands of websites, books and cookbooks, Facebook groups, forums and other social media options, YouTube videos, etc., that support and advise about veganism and Whole Food Plant Based diets.
> 
> Is your daughter still a vegan?


Lots of people don’t understand that vegan means no egg, milk, animal products of any kind.  When she married her husband became vegan as well, about five years ago they switched to vegetarian as he was dying for some eggs.

My son was vegan as well and last year started to eat meat again-girlfriend, lol.  He does not eat much meat though.


----------



## StarSong (May 24, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Lots of people don’t understand that vegan means no egg, milk, animal products of any kind.  When she married her husband became vegan as well, about five years ago they switched to vegetarian as he was dying for some eggs.
> 
> My son was vegan as well and last year started to eat meat again-girlfriend, lol.  He does not eat much meat though.


You're right about the definition of strict veganism, which often extends to clothing, medicine, pet food, etc. No leather, wool, silk, etc.  

On other hand, a vegan diet isn't always healthy - it can include plenty of junk food.

 That's why many people, myself included, describe ourselves as whole food plant based.  We try to avoid the junk as well as animal based foods and products.


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## MarciKS (May 24, 2020)

Medicine StarSong? There's medicine made of animals?


----------



## Pinky (May 24, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Medicine StarSong? There's medicine made of animals?


Perhaps SS is referring to animal-testing?


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## MarciKS (May 24, 2020)

Oh. Yeah that sucks.


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## MarciKS (May 24, 2020)

I don't know that we have a lot of products available where I am that haven't been tested on animals.


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## Keesha (May 24, 2020)

Vegan GF Nachos

Mock Cheese Sauce
I medium sweet potato ( cubed )
1/4 cup coconut milk
3 tbsps. Nutritional yeast flakes ( used 1/3 c. sour cream instead)
3 tbsps. olive or other preferred oil
2 tbsps. fresh lemon juice
2 tbsps. soy sauce
1 tbsps. sriracha sauce or hot chilli sauce
1/2 tsp. garlic powder
1/4 tsp. salt to taste

Refried Beans
1 tbsp. olive oil
I medium onion
2 gloves garlic
1 ( 14 oz ) pinto beans drained & rinsed
2 tsps. cumin
1 tsp. dry oregano
2 tbsp. lemon juice
1 tbsp. chilli sauce
salt to taste

Guacamole
2 ripe avocados
1 medium tomato peeled and diced
1/4 cup red opinion
1/2 cup chopped fresh cilantro
3 tbsp. lime juice
1 jalapeño pepper: seeded and minced
1 garlic clove crushed
salt to taste

Nachos
Tortilla chips
Tomatoes diced into cubes
Sliced olives
Green onions
Black beans drained and rinsed
Jalapeño or hot peppers
Cilantro
Salsa sauce

Mock Sour Cream

These have been something I’ve craved all week so I was happy to come in from gardening to make these for dinner.

This recipe had some substitutes and some things I eliminated. Coconut milk was deleted , nutritional flakes were substituted with 1/3 mock sour cream. Hot peppers replaced jalapeño pepper and hot chilli sauce in place of sriracha. Left out all salt since I never add salt. The chips are salted.

This was far better than I expected. While eating I couldn’t stop thinking about how clean & fresh it all was. My taste buds were dancing with delight at all the mixed flavours I was tasting.

The mock cheese sauce was a surprise. I’ve bought a variety of vegan cheeses and this was a huge surprise even without the nutritional flakes. Nutritional flakes are like a staple in the vegans kitchen for cheese flavours but since I didn’t have any the mock sour cream worked well. Hot chilli sauce and lemon juice really gave it a tangy kick.

The refried beans were also a pleasant surprise. Never again will I purchase canned refried beans after making these. It’s the first time I made them and it was so worth it. They were very tasty.

The tortilla chips were white corn and stone ground yellow corn. All the fresh flavours blended together were very good. I highly recommend this.

Plenty of leftovers sauces for more vegan nachos later. This is seriously enjoyable and I am LOVING this new way of eating. This works for me.


These are all the ingredients minus the mock sour cream.


Layers of nachos with stuff between them, topped with mock sour cream and cilantro.

Note: taste far better than it looks.


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## MarciKS (May 24, 2020)

Have you tried the mock sour cream? If so, was it good?


----------



## Keesha (May 24, 2020)

Yes. That’s mock sour cream on top. It’s pretty good. It tastes like sour cream without the sourness. Lol. You know that tang you get when you taste sour cream? It doesn’t really have that. It’s more bland.

The home cooked retried beans taste more like humus but far cheaper. Next I’m going to make hummus. I like things made from chick peas and beans. 

I’m very fortunate to find most supplies I need.
This was really filling. I’m stuffed.


----------



## Ken N Tx (May 25, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Note: taste far better than it looks.


----------



## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Medicine StarSong? There's medicine made of animals?


I don’t know them all but here are some medicines made from animal products.


Pig derived products-dessicated thyroid , heparin , pancreatic enzymes
Horse - Premarin
Animal cartilage- gelatin  capsules ( many drugs made from gelatin including acetaminophen , gummy vitamins , chondroitin 
Animal bones - calcium
Animal blood - heme iron - Proferrin
Shellfish - glucosamine , oyster shells
Fish - omega 3 fatty acids
Sheep - ( sebaceous gland extract - lanolin ) vitamin D3

Vaccine preparations ( grown in eggs )
Flu vaccine
Measles, Mumps, Rebella Vaccine
Rabies vaccine
Yellow fever vaccine




MarciKS said:


> Have you tried the mock sour cream? If so, was it good?


Here’s a picture of the mock sour cream i use. Treeguy also has a variety he uses which he posted a picture of a page back


----------



## MarciKS (May 25, 2020)

I don't have to worry about the premarin. I had no idea it had all that in it. I take Estrace now. I don't have a lot of leeway with meds because I have too many allergies.

Thanks...I'll look at the store next time I go.


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## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I don't have to worry about the premarin. I had no idea it had all that in it. I take Estrace now. I don't have a lot of leeway with meds because I have too many allergies.
> 
> Thanks...I'll look at the store next time I go.


Neither did I Marcik. I know you were asking Starsong but since it’s my thread I feel like it’s my responsibility to try and answer so I looked it up.


----------



## MarciKS (May 25, 2020)

Oh ok. Sorry.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 25, 2020)

StarSong said:


> You're right about the definition of strict veganism, which often extends to clothing, medicine, pet food, etc. No leather, wool, silk, etc.
> 
> On other hand, a vegan diet isn't always healthy - it can include plenty of junk food.
> 
> That's why many people, myself included, describe ourselves as whole food plant based.  We try to avoid the junk as well as animal based foods and products.


She went strict vegan, we had leather seats and she wouldn’t ride in our car with us.  She was a real pain in the-for several years


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## Aneeda72 (May 25, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Neither did I Marcik. I know you were asking Starsong but since it my thread I feel like it’s my responsibility to try and answer so I looked it up.
> 
> ************************************************************
> 
> ...


Well, I probably eat a cow a year and my husband 2 1/2,  so how we ended up with vegans is beyond me.  But it never make me nauseous just poorer.


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## StarSong (May 25, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Medicine StarSong? There's medicine made of animals?


Many, many, many.  As per Keesha's list.  I didn't mean to send this off on a tangent, but rather to explain the differences between vegans and people who choose Whole Food Plant Based (WFPB).


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## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Oh ok. Sorry.


No. You did nothing wrong at all. You asked a great question  that I was more than happy to research since I was also interested and while I’m not on medication I do take supplements that aren’t vegan like Krill Oil and gelatin capsules so it was actually very helpful. I’m not sure what I’ll do so that is  a question I’m going to ask about.

The only reason I wrote the other stuff is that I don’t want my ego taking over a good idea. Changing my diet to vegan IS the lifestyle change I needed and I’d rather focus on sharing what I’m doing than feeling like I’m trying to educate because that’s not what I want to do at all.

I asked this thread to be put into the journal section since that’s the type of style I’d like it to be. What I thought I’d do is write a weeks worth of vegan diet recipes or what I ‘ve had and at the end of the week ask all my questions for that week and I DO have many. These questions are probably best answered by these two since they’ve been doing it for years while I’m still new.

I considered PM’ing you but I have that turned off. Sorry if that sounded personally directed at you. It wasn’t.  ☺


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## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> She went strict vegan, we had leather seats and she wouldn’t ride in our car with us.  She was a real pain in the-for several years


This is the type of vegan I don’t want to become. I’m doing this for me and me alone. I’m not the least bit interested in trying to convert my husband or my dogs into vegetarians nor would I want to. I’m perfectly happy claiming this lifestyle as my own personal health journey. 





Aneeda72 said:


> Well, I probably eat a cow a year and my husband 2 1/2,  so how we ended up with vegans is beyond me.  But it never make me nauseous just poorer.


LOL! You’re a riot. My husband eats more meat than anyone I’ve ever known. It’s only been a year ago since he went from doing shift work and working overtime to working full time days . Then the pandemic hit and he’s home most of the time so my lifestyle HAS changed drastically. It was easier for both of us to eat at the same time etc., and it really threw me off my regular eating habits. Most of my meals were vegetarian from Monday to Friday. Then he’s home and my regular diet got chucked. ( my fault not his. )

You must be going through similar struggles since your mans home more often. It took a while for me to realize this but proclaiming that I’m vegan is the push I needed so I can continue to eat the foods that are best for me.

Also when I visit others, I don’t expect them to cater to my preferences. I will take gluten free for myself and share with anyone else who wants any nor would I ever dream of commenting on their personal preferences. We have leather coaches. I just realized that now.  Haha. I can just imagine my husbands face when he comes home and I tell him that we have to change all our furniture because I’m vegan. 
( kidding ) 

I share my life with others ( husband, 2 dogs and a cat) and respect their choices to not have the same preferences as me.


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## Aneeda72 (May 25, 2020)

Keesha said:


> This is the type of vegan I don’t want to become. I’m doing this for me and me alone. I’m not the least bit interested in trying to convert my husband or my dogs into vegetarians nor would I want to. I’m perfectly happy claiming this lifestyle as my own personal health journey.
> LOL! You’re a riot. My husband eats more meat than anyone I’ve ever known. It’s only been a year ago since he went from doing shift work and working overtime to working full time days . Then the pandemic hit and he’s home most of the time so my lifestyle HAS changed drastically. It was easier for both of us to eat at the same time etc., and it really threw me off my regular eating habits. Most of my meals were vegetarian from Monday to Friday. Then he’s home and that all charged.
> 
> You must be going through similar struggles since your mans home more often. It took a while for me to realize this but proclaiming that I’m vegan is the push I needed so I can continue to eat the foods that are best for me.
> ...


All that fresh vegan food is expensive.  She wouldn’t eat honey cause it can have bee parts in it.


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## treeguy64 (May 25, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Here’s a picture of the mock sour cream I use. Treeguy also has a variety he uses which he posted a picture of a page back
> View attachment 106641


Identical product, identical ingredients, different names.


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## treeguy64 (May 25, 2020)

In reading the latest posts, in this thread, I have to say that the hair splitting on animal ingredients in this or that, is precisely what I referenced in my original post, here: If I had to plan every move I made in my life to make sure I wasn't in violation of some "Vegan Manifesto," I strongly doubt that I would have been as successful as I've been over these past, many decades, in my dietary choices. 

Yes, glycerine comes from animals, as does leather. Ditto, some medicine ingredients. I don't worry about that. Rather, I eat no animal products, about 99.9% of the time. Occasionally, at a party, I will have a slice of cake that contains eggs. I don't care.

I view my dietary choices as better for me, better for other species, better for the planet. That's it, that's all I need. I'm happy.


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## RadishRose (May 25, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Medicine StarSong? There's medicine made of animals?


 * II. Preparations: Derived from animal products *

Pig-derived products
Dessicated Thyroid
Heparin (pig Intestine)
Pancreatic enzymes

Horse
Premarin (pregnant mares urine)

Animal cartilage
Gelatin capsules or gummy Vitamins
Chondroitin

Animal bones
Calcium

Animal blood
Heme iron (Proferrin)

Shellfish
Glucosamine
Omega-3 Fatty Acids (fish oil)
Calcium (oyster shells)

Sheep (Sebaceous Glandextract)
Lanolin
Vitamin D3

 https://fpnotebook.com/Pharm/Adverse/AnmlDrvdPhrmctcls.htm 
* III. Preparations: Vaccinations (grown in eggs) *

Influenza Vaccine
Measles Mumps Rubella Vaccine
Rabies Vaccine
Yellow Fever Vaccine


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## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> All that fresh vegan food is expensive.  She wouldn’t eat honey cause it can have bee parts in it.


Most of my food I make myself since I really enjoy cooking and baking and since I’m celiac, I’m used to paying more for the food I eat. Things like vegan cheese is pricey as is anything organic so yes I can see your point however the other day I made refried beans , mock cheese sauce and guacamole and  it cost a fraction of the price you pay for it pre- made.


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## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> In reading the latest posts, in this thread, I have to say that the hair splitting on animal ingredients in this or that, is precisely what I referenced in my original post, here: If I had to plan every move I made in my life to make sure I wasn't in violation of some "Vegan Manifesto," I strongly doubt that I would have been as successful as I've been over these past, many decades, in my dietary choices.
> 
> Yes, glycerine comes from animals, as does leather. Ditto, some medicine ingredients. I don't worry about that. Rather, I eat no animal products, about 99.9% of the time. Occasionally, at a party, I will have a slice of cake that contains eggs. I don't care.
> 
> I view my dietary choices as better for me, better for other species, better for the planet. That's it, that's all I need. I'm happy.


Those were my thoughts too actually. When I first was diagnosed with Celiac Disease , it was back in 1990 when gluten free food was rarely heard of and the selection sparse but that was what pushed me to research different products and recipes which was how I learned. Isn’t experience the best way to learn anything? It’s the things we deem mistakes which we learn the most from.  I think the worst thing we can do is expect too much from ourselves and give up. Then we accomplish nothing.


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## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I don’t know them all but here are some medicines made from animal products.
> 
> 
> Pig derived products-dessicated thyroid , heparin , pancreatic enzymes
> ...


Same info I got off line.


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## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

Questions I have for any other vegetarians.

1/. A). When you first started changing your diet and introducing a lot more vegetables, grains, and beans etc., did you have a lot more bloating? B). Do you take digestive enzymes and do they work for you?

My first few days I was actually very bloated so I looked this up and found it’s very common when starting a new diet, especially a vegan or vegetarian one and they suggested digestive enzymes.

Note: I’d forgotten all about digestive enzymes so got some today. These are the ones I got. They are made by Garden of Life.


2/. When you transitioned to a vegan diet, did you find all your senses became more acute?

I know it’s only been 4 days but I’m already discovering that my tastebuds have livened up and my sense of smell much better. In fact my chronic sinus infection is clearing up on its own.

3/. This is a very personal question and I completely understand if you don’t want to answer it but  when you transitioned did you find your internal hygiene better?

4/. Is there a ‘detox’ effect from starting a vegan diet and if there is, how long does it generally last? Will the digestive enzymes & probiotics help with this?

Note: I do understand there may be too many variables to answer this fairly.


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## MarciKS (May 25, 2020)

I can't answer in the state of being vegan but I had lots of bloating when I ate more fruits and vegetables. Like really bad. Are the enzymes supposed to help with that?

Another issue I experienced was diarrhea. I was *reading* that these issues are supposed to only be for a short while as your body adjusts.


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## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I can't answer in the state of being vegan but I had lots of bloating when I ate more fruits and vegetables. Like really bad. Are the enzymes supposed to help with that?
> 
> Another issue I experienced was diarrhea. I was *reading* that these issues are supposed to only be for a short while as your body adjusts.


Oh goodness. One of my first few days I looked about 7 months pregnant and must admit it was discouraging and it’s probably one of the things thats stopped me in the past from continuing. The gas from eating too many fruits and vegetables.

This was something I looked up yesterday and yes it’s normal and yes digestive enzymes apparently help a lot. I’d forgotten all about them so purchased some today. I did get a bit of diarrhea one day but it cleared up quickly and haven’t any issues in that department which I’m thankful for; just really gassy for a bit . Oddly enough it wasn’t the day I ate lots of beans but the day I had the most vegetables.


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## MarciKS (May 25, 2020)

The reason I ask about the enzymes is because I had a hysterectomy and the gas gets so bad and so painful that sometimes it affects my mobility.


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## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> The reason I ask about the enzymes is because I had a hysterectomy and the gas gets so bad and so painful that sometimes it affects my mobility.


I can’t guarantee they will work for you but I’m fairly certain they will help. Before purchasing these I did a thorough research and was really surprised at the reviews. People with multiple food allergies said taking these allowed them to tolerate these foods whenever they purposely or accidentally ate them. It also said that older  people don’t digest their food as well as when they were younger . Others mentioned it helping with all categories of food including gaseous foods like beans, fruits and vegetables . Most have specific enzymes for digesting specific things like lactase for digesting  lactose.
Let’s see what treeguy & Starsong say


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## MarciKS (May 25, 2020)

Thanks


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## Keesha (May 25, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Thanks


My pleasure.


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## StarSong (May 26, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> In reading the latest posts, in this thread, I have to say that the hair splitting on animal ingredients in this or that, is precisely what I referenced in my original post, here: If I had to plan every move I made in my life to make sure I wasn't in violation of some "Vegan Manifesto," I strongly doubt that I would have been as successful as I've been over these past, many decades, in my dietary choices.
> 
> Yes, glycerine comes from animals, as does leather. Ditto, some medicine ingredients. I don't worry about that. Rather, I eat no animal products, about 99.9% of the time. Occasionally, at a party, I will have a slice of cake that contains eggs. I don't care.
> 
> *I view my dietary choices as better for me, better for other species, better for the planet.* That's it, that's all I need. I'm happy.


I completely agree with what you wrote.  Like you, I couldn't have done this if I was going to split every hair (hair being animal-based), or hyper-examine every food, home product, medication, etc., that comes my way.  A set up for failure.    

I especially like the way you phrased the sentence that I put in bold font.  Beautifully said.  

p.s. My son and DIL, who are quite strict vegans (based on their love for animals), found a way to manage their consciences and balance the scales for an occasional piece of cake or slice of pizza. They make a monthly donation to a farm animal rescue organization as compensation for their (truly rare) breaches. 

They were married last year and used a catering company that provided all vegan foods. Many guests were surprised to learn how delicious and satisfying vegan foods can be.


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## treeguy64 (May 26, 2020)

K, when I became a vegan, I had already been vegetarian for over ten years. I noticed no dramatic changes, except I didn't sweat constipation issues from eating dairy, anymore. That was great!

Gas is a fact of life with the vegan lifestyle. I make no excuses for my flatulence, and, yeah, they truly don't stink! Actually, nobody knows the deed has been done unless I feel like standing up and blasting forth! Hard to believe that, as a kid, I was called,  "The Fartless Wonder!"  I'm sure that had a lot to do with my near-constant lower GI distress when I was a young guy.

I take an amazing probiotic. I know its creator, and she's the real deal. It definitely helped me end my appendicitis attacks without surgery.


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## StarSong (May 26, 2020)

@Keesha and @MarciKS, I've never used digestive hormones.  (Edited to say - I've never used digestive enzymes nor probiotics, which is what I meant.)  

My body was a little gassy (emphasize little) when I first moved to WFPB, but not exceptionally so. No bloating or discomfort.
Dairy foods gave me way more digestive issues than whatever I experienced when transitioning to beans, extra veggies, and the additional fiber from leaving meat and dairy behind.

I don't generate any more gas than omnivores, but I definitely poop more often because of the fiber. Not a bad thing.

One thing that we haven't discussed here - but won't be true for @Keesha because her husband is a meat eater - is that vegan/WFPB kitchens stay much cleaner and germ-free. Most dangerous food pathogens come from meat, not veggies. I don't have to worry about sanitizing cutting boards and various surfaces during and after meal prep. I wash them down and am done with it.

Ditto with foods being out for a long time. If salad, grilled veggies, beans, hummus, salsa, nuts, and grains are out for a few hours they might wilt or warm up a bit, but they won't make you sick.

I've never tried probiotics, digestive enzymes or any other digestive assists, nor needed to. But every body is different.


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I've never tried probiotics, digestive enzymes or any other digestive assists, nor needed to. But every body is different.


Enzymes and hormones aren’t the same thing. They are completely different with different purposes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestive_enzyme

And I’m actually very surprised you take neither probiotics or enzymes especially since you have IBS. Wouldn’t the symptoms of such a disorder cause a need  for such things?

Oddly enough just recently, while doing this research , found there were a few items I’ve gotten to help my digestive issues and every item mentioned that they helped IBS. Whenever I go to purchase anything I faithfully read many reviews first and there were so many positive reviews about both digestive enzymes  and probiotics.

Thanks for answering my personal questions but MOST of all thank you for suggesting this diet when we had our discussion last year. It’s taken me a while to get there but I’m there now. ❤


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> K, when I became a vegan, I had already been vegetarian for over ten years. I noticed no dramatic changes, except I didn't sweat constipation issues from eating dairy, anymore. That was great!
> 
> Gas is a fact of life with the vegan lifestyle. I make no excuses for my flatulence, and, yeah, they truly don't stink! Actually, nobody knows the deed has been done unless I feel like standing up and blasting forth! Hard to believe that, as a kid, I was called,  "The Fartless Wonder!"  I'm sure that had a lot to do with my near-constant lower GI distress when I was a young guy.
> 
> I take an amazing probiotic. I know its creator, and she's the real deal. It definitely helped me end my appendicitis attacks without surgery.


This ^^^^^ is what I was getting at but wasn’t quite sure how to approach the topic tactfully.
Besides increased energy , a livening of my senses is what I’ve noticed most & a cleaner feeling from the inside out. Even my teeth and mouth in general feel cleaner so I’m hoping my breath is fresher. Overall my entire body feels cleaner and THAT in itself is worth the change in diet. It’s changing how I feel about myself from the inside out and I don’t think I could be happier about it.

Thanks for answering my personal questions


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## StarSong (May 26, 2020)

I know hormones and enzymes are different.  I'm sorry to have misspoken above and edited the post to reflect that.   

I've never been steered toward probiotics or enzymes by my doctor even when I had a rather dramatic episode right in front of her, nor do people in my circle happen to use them. Or if they do, they haven't mentioned it.

Digestive additives may indeed be helpful for IBS, they've just never blipped up on my personal radar.

I've learned to live with and manage my IBS, which is much reduced since I stopped eating meat and dairy.


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## treeguy64 (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I know hormones and enzymes are different.  I'm sorry to have misspoken above and edited the post to reflect that.
> 
> I've never been steered toward probiotics or enzymes by my doctor even when I had a rather dramatic episode right in front of her, nor do people in my circle happen to use them. Or if they do, they haven't mentioned it.
> 
> ...


Please try a probiotic. I believe it might help your IBS the way it did away with my acute appendicitis attacks.


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

Thanks a million you guys. 
I’m over the moon here with gratitude.


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Please try a probiotic. I believe it might help your IBS the way it did away with my acute appendicitis attacks.


I TOTALLY agree!!!! 
Please do Starsong.


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## Happyflowerlady (May 26, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> All that fresh vegan food is expensive.  She wouldn’t eat honey cause it can have bee parts in it.


 
You should actually be saving money by eating plant based. I don’t buy any of the  expensive commercial vegan foods, but what I do buy is a lot of fresh produce (fruits and veggies) plus I get grains, legumes, and greens, none of which are nearly as expensive as meat is. 
I hate cooking with a passion, and my meals are all pretty basic and easy to make; so I probably won’t have special recipes to share . 

A meal for me is usually as simple as a salad with lots of romaine, tomatoes, green onions, frozen peas,  red beans, and some cheese, ACV and olive oil dressing with herbs/spices. 
Sometimes just a slice of Dave’s Killer Bread with avocado on it is fine for an easy meal. 
I make my own veggie-patties, and freeze them, so I can have one anytime I feel like having a veggie burger. 

I don’t like the commercial almond milk, but I do like it when I make my own almond milk, it is richer, has more almonds in it, and no preservatives of any kind.


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## StarSong (May 26, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Please try a probiotic. I believe it might help your IBS the way it did away with my acute appendicitis attacks.





Keesha said:


> I TOTALLY agree!!!!
> Please do Starsong.



I'll look into them, thanks.    Any suggestions or recommendations?


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## Happyflowerlady (May 26, 2020)

Has anyone else tried making kimchi for a probiotic ?  I make kimchi and sauerkraut, both of which have natural digestive enzymes, and will help give your gut the proper ones needed to function properly.
You do not have to eat very much of them, just even a couple of spoonfuls is supposed to give you all of what you need.


One really easy to understand book explaining kimchi and probiotics is called “The Kimchi Diet” , by Suzanne Bennett.
This is a screenshot of one page explaining about the importance of probiotics and our gut biome.


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I'll look into them, thanks.    Any suggestions or recommendations?


YES !
Garden of Life RAW primal defence ULTRA 

it’s dairy free and vegetarian but not completely vegan but they possibly could have a vegan one.


And if you do decide to add an enzyme this one IS dairy free and soy free. It’s chewable and they take





These are quality items. A but pricey but worth it


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## treeguy64 (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I'll look into them, thanks.    Any suggestions or recommendations?



This is the real deal! A bit pricey, but well worth it. Order from the company's site, NOT a middleman. Customer service is great, phone orders are very fast and easy.


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

Happyflowerlady said:


> Has anyone else tried making kimchi for a probiotic ?  I make kimchi and sauerkraut, both of which have natural digestive enzymes, and will help give your gut the proper ones needed to function properly.
> You do not have to eat very much of them, just even a couple of spoonfuls is supposed to give you all of what you need.
> 
> 
> ...


I used to make kombucha but lost the mother and I’ve read about the sauerkraut and find it fascinating only haven’t done it yet. None I’m into trying.
Thanks for posting this.


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> This is the real deal! A bit pricey, but well worth it. Order from the company's site, NOT a middleman. Customer service is great, phone orders are very fast and easy.
> View attachment 106869View attachment 106870


Are they shelf life stable or need refrigeration?


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## treeguy64 (May 26, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Are they shelf life stable or need refrigeration?


I keep mine refrigerated. No problems, that I'm aware of.


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> I keep mine refrigerated. No problems, that I'm aware of.


Ok. Thank you.


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

Today I made my first gluten free vegan pizza with no yeast. It’s quick & easy. The  dough is basically the same which I cut in half so I could make two.

Then I rolled it out on the cutting board but made a foolish mistake. I know @StarSong will figure it out.



Since I didn’t have any pizza tomato sauce, I added tomato pasta sauce which is too thin but the end result tasted really nice. The provolone vegan cheese treeguy suggested is great. I cut them into pepperoni shapes .... cause I’m silly

Here is a slice. The crust turns out like regular pizza dough even without gluten or yeast.
It’s soft and chewy. It’s baked  on one of those round pizza pans with holes in them.


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## peppermint (May 26, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> @peppermint I usually eat chicken mostly. Other than that I eat meatless dishes like pasta and pizza. Problem is what to do if you're vegetarian and diabetic. The carbs would be too much I would think.


Are you a diabetic?.....I am not....


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## Aneeda72 (May 26, 2020)

Happyflowerlady said:


> You should actually be saving money by eating plant based. I don’t buy any of the  expensive commercial vegan foods, but what I do buy is a lot of fresh produce (fruits and veggies) plus I get grains, legumes, and greens, none of which are nearly as expensive as meat is.
> I hate cooking with a passion, and my meals are all pretty basic and easy to make; so I probably won’t have special recipes to share .
> 
> A meal for me is usually as simple as a salad with lots of romaine, tomatoes, green onions, frozen peas,  red beans, and some cheese, ACV and olive oil dressing with herbs/spices.
> ...


I suppose it depends on where you live as to how expensive fresh veggies are.  But I am talking about when she was a teenager which was, hmm, over 50 years ago, lol.  I grow my veggies during the summer.


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## Aneeda72 (May 26, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Ok. Thank you. What I’ve found with probiotics is that usually the best ones require refrigeration even in delivery and this is where it gets complicated if you are purchasing online.
> 
> For instance, if you purchase a good brand online and it’s a far distance they may state that it’s been packed in a refrigerated shipping pack but they only last for 2 days , 3 at most, weather depending. If it takes longer than that then they need to be shipped in a refrigerated truck.
> 
> ...


What’s funny, and I didn’t read everything just glanced, both my GI guy and my husbands GI guy said not to take probiotics.  If you do take them, you are supposed to rotate the different kinds.  I simply stopped taking them.


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> What’s funny, and I didn’t read everything just glanced, both my GI guy and my husbands GI guy said not to take probiotics.  If you do take them, you are supposed to rotate the different kinds.  I simply stopped taking them.


Interesting.


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## Aneeda72 (May 26, 2020)

Keesha said:


> What’s a GI? Are they general practitioners?
> If they are then why would they suggest them?
> Doctors make money off of people coming in sick seeking advice. Doctors prescribe drugs which they get paid for.  They don’t get paid for suggesting healthy alternatives to health.
> The best people to talk to about food and digestion are dietitians, nutritionists or a holistic doctor. Doing your own research about gut health yourself is also really helpful. You’re an intelligent women who can figure this out.


A doctor who specializes in intestinal issues.


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## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> A doctor who specializes in intestinal issues.


Ok thanks.


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## Aneeda72 (May 26, 2020)

Let me add this, I have major intestinal issues.  I’ve had two resections-portions of my bowels have been removed.  My husband has had one blockage of the upper intestine but no resection.  My sister-in-laws bowel exploded, blew a hole in her bowel, she was hospitalized for 9 months, and now wears a bag.

All these GI docs said no probiotics.  It’s the GP’s that recommend them.


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## StarSong (May 26, 2020)

GI stands for gastroenterologists, or doctors whose training and experience focus on the gastro intestinal tract.  IBS would be among their specialties.


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## Aneeda72 (May 26, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Wow! You’re kidding? Not that he isn’t a specialist but I’m surprised with the info offered. Really surprised. Why not read up about the benefits of probiotics yourself?


I did, lol, which is why I took them; and my GP suggested them.  But, if you read, it also tells you to change them out because apparently you can grow too much of one thing and not enough of another in your bowel.  Too complicated for me to explain.


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## Aneeda72 (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> GI stands for gastroenterologists, or doctors whose training and experience focus on the gastro intestinal tract.  IBS would be among their specialties.


Thanks.  Couldn’t think.  I had a major shock last night, brain is still trying to function.


----------



## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I did, lol, which is why I took them; and my GP suggested them.  But, if you read, it also tells you to change them out because apparently you can grow too much of one thing and not enough of another in your bowel.  Too complicated for me to explain.


ok. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> GI stands for gastroenterologists, or doctors whose training and experience focus on the gastro intestinal tract.  IBS would be among their specialties.


Yes I missed it. Thanks.


----------



## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

If you ladies are doing fine without them then don’t worry about them. It’s not for me to intervene in medical advice.


----------



## StarSong (May 26, 2020)

In doing some research this morning I find that there are two camps when it comes to prebiotics, probiotics and digestive enzymes.  Some are strongly in favor and others think they're a waste of money unless one is recovering from a course of antibiotics - and are shaky about support even then.      

Stripping out opinions and studies presented by people and companies with vested financial interest is always a challenge.

No surprise why it wasn't recommended to me by that doctor, who apparently falls into the "con" category.


----------



## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

I can only speak from personal experience and have no interior motive or monetary investment. A good probiotic definitely helps me and I have two digestive/ metabolism disorders. Perhaps trying them for yourself is the only sure way to find out.
I certainly don’t want to play doctor here.


----------



## Keesha (May 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> In doing some research this morning I find that there are two camps when it comes to prebiotics, probiotics and digestive enzymes.  Some are strongly in favor and others think they're a waste of money unless one is recovering from a course of antibiotics - and are shaky about support even then.
> 
> Stripping out opinions and studies presented by people and companies with vested financial interest is always a challenge.
> 
> No surprise why it wasn't recommended to me by that doctor, who apparently falls into the "con" category.


What made you decide to change your diet and eliminate meat, dairy and all animal products?
Did your doctor tell you that you can’t digest them well and to stop eating them?


----------



## MarciKS (May 26, 2020)

peppermint said:


> Are you a diabetic?.....I am not....


Yes.


----------



## StarSong (May 27, 2020)

Keesha said:


> What made you decide to change your diet and eliminate meat, dairy and all animal products?
> Did your doctor tell you that you can’t digest them well and to stop eating them?


No.  Within a week, hubby & I watched two movies.  _Vegucated _and _Forks Over Knives_. That's what turned us away from animal based foods. My IBS reducing considerably was a very unexpected, happy reward. 

I saw a gastroenterologist during the height of my issues, a time when I was under tremendous business and personal stress, plus eating lots of meat and dairy. She took a detailed medical and family history and advised me that I have a genetic predisposition toward lower GI problems, they're probably somewhat mechanical, and also exacerbated by certain foods and/or stress. My father & grandfather were the same, as are two of my siblings and two of my children. 

In the interest of not getting into graphic details, let's leave it at that.


----------



## Keesha (May 27, 2020)

Right now I’m feeling like I used to feel when I really cared about what I ate and enjoyed cooking, baking and food preparing.  I’m no longer craving sweet stuff and  now look forward to making and eating meals.

It has only been a week and I’ve already noticed lots of changes. Some of them we have already discussed but something else I’ve noticed is that my skin looks much better, my personal hygiene seems better and I’m starting to lose weight.

Starsong brought up a good point about kitchen hygiene and I’ve asked my husband if he could stop cutting meat on the wooden bread board I’ve had for 35 years. He agreed.
I’ve also put all my food items in a separate cupboard. It just makes things simpler and more organized for us both.

Today I had mixed bean salad which is completely vegan but I added some feta cheese made from sheep’s milk and it was delicious. I also made a Caesar salad with vegan dressing which is nice but then added artisan goats milk cheese and didn’t like it. It had hemp hearts added for added protein.

The feta cheese made from sheep’s milk taste like regular feta cheese only better. The artisan goats cheese tasted like ..... well.... goats. Not that I’ve tasted goats but it tastes like the smell of goats which I don’t like so I threw it out. My husband tried the cheese and absolutely loved it and is going to stuff his steak with it tonight.

The bean salad is huge so I might give some to our neighbours since my husband doesn’t like it.

Bean salad has :
Cut green beans, yellow wax beans, pinto beans, kidney beans, black eyed peas, chick peas, black beans, niblet corn, celery, red onion, red pepper, cucumber, zucchini, green olives, black olives,  baby corn cobs, water chestnuts and chopped cilantro.

Dressing: olive oil, white vinegar, apple cider vinegar, balsamic vinegar, thyme, cumin and dried oregano flakes.

The cheese is added last minute before I eat.
That way I can choice whether to eat vegetarian or full vegan which is perfectly fine with me.

The food enzymes made a HUGE difference in how I digest my food. Normally after eating the above meal I’d get bloated and have a lot of gas. Today I didn’t so am so glad I remembered about digestive enzymes. It opens the door to more food choices which is exciting stuff.












￼


----------



## Keesha (May 27, 2020)

StarSong said:


> No.  Within a week, hubby & I watched two movies.  _Vegucated _and _Forks Over Knives_. That's what turned us away from animal based foods. My IBS reducing considerably was a very unexpected, happy reward.
> 
> I saw a gastroenterologist during the height of my issues, a time when I was under tremendous business and personal stress, plus eating lots of meat and dairy. She took a detailed medical and family history and advised me that I have a genetic predisposition toward lower GI problems, they're probably somewhat mechanical, and also exacerbated by certain foods and/or stress. My father & grandfather were the same, as are two of my siblings and two of my children.
> 
> In the interest of not getting into graphic details, let's leave it at that.


Oh ok. I just remember you stating earlier in this thread that you can’t digest many oils or you get IBS problems but you also said that when you eat a proper vegan diet that you have no issues whatsoever so I was somewhat confused.

My main reason for asking if it was your doctor who suggested you change your diet and you confirmed that it wasn’t. You took your health and what you eat into your own hands.
That’s how I feel about adding things like probiotics and digestive enzymes. They aren’t drugs. They are made from food substances.

I don’t think I could watch ‘forks over knives.’ In fact I know I couldn’t but can imagine what it was about. Thank you for answering my questions.


----------



## Keesha (May 27, 2020)

Another all natural dessert. 1 tbsp. crunchy sunflower seed butter, one frozen banana, a handful of assorted frozen berries and a splash of vanilla silk almond coffee cream, topped with berries and a sprinkle of stevia.


----------



## StarSong (May 28, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Oh ok. I just remember you stating earlier in this thread that you can’t digest many oils or you get IBS problems but you also said that when you eat a proper vegan diet that you have no issues whatsoever so I was somewhat confused.
> 
> My main reason for asking if it was your doctor who suggested you change your diet and you confirmed that it wasn’t. You took your health and what you eat into your own hands.
> That’s how I feel about adding things like probiotics and digestive enzymes. They aren’t drugs. They are made from food substances.
> ...


To clarify, I eat a Whole Food Plant Based diet, which by definition includes no added oils because oils aren't whole foods.  They're stripped out of olives, soybeans, corn, et. al., leaving the fiber and other components behind.  Most days I eat some olives, nuts, avocados, or other high fat foods and my digestive system manages them well. 

The bean salad you posted above looks so delicious that I'm going to give it a whirl, but without the cheese or oil.  Going mostly oil-free is like giving up the salt shaker.  For the first week or so everything tastes weird, but after a while your taste buds adapt.                  

Just to let you know, _Forks Over Knives_ is centered on the health aspects of WFPB/vegan diets versus meat & dairy based eating.  _Vegucated_ is heavily focused on the cruelties of the livestock industry.  Parts of _Vegucated _were difficult for hubby and me to watch, but we're so glad we did.


----------



## drifter (May 28, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Transitioning to Vegan/Vegetarianism
> 
> No they aren’t the same but eliminating meat is certainly the dominating factor for both.
> 
> ...


Don't know if I could make such a drastic move. Only maybe if death was the immient option.
I'd be like Job, or maybe it was Kristofferson:  Why me, Lord?


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

StarSong said:


> To clarify, I eat a Whole Food Plant Based diet, which by definition includes no added oils because oils aren't whole foods.  They're stripped out of olives, soybeans, corn, et. al., leaving the fiber and other components behind.  Most days I eat some olives, nuts, avocados, or other high fat foods and my digestive system manages them well.
> 
> The bean salad you posted above looks so delicious that I'm going to give it a whirl, but without the cheese or oil.  Going mostly oil-free is like giving up the salt shaker.  For the first week or so everything tastes weird, but after a while your taste buds adapt.
> 
> Just to let you know, _Forks Over Knives_ is centered on the health aspects of WFPB/vegan diets versus meat & dairy based eating.  _Vegucated_ is heavily focused on the cruelties of the livestock industry.  Parts of _Vegucated _were difficult for hubby and me to watch, but we're so glad we did.


Oh I didn’t realize that your diet restricted all oils. That’s interesting. Giving up oil wouldn’t be like giving up the salt shaker for me as I don’t normally use salt. I’m a pepper girl myself and if you lived closer I would have given you a huge container of bean salad as I added the oil and vinegar last. 

So I guess I’ll be eating bean salad all week. 

If you can’t have oils then those dolmas wouldn’t suite your diet either as they are marinated in olive oil.

Thanks for the heads up warning me about the Vegucated film being focussed on the cruelty of animals. I can’t stomach any type of animal cruelty or human cruelty but know I’ll stay on the diet no matter what. I don’t crave any meat in the least. Going completely vegan will be challenging at times due to hidden dairy and egg in products but this is definitely a work in progress.

Eating this way is taking care of my main concern so I’m really thrilled. Today I actually went shopping at Costco on my own to purchase a computer and didn’t have any of the issues I normally have which was such a welcome relief and to be honest I didn’t think anything would help.


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

drifter said:


> Don't know if I could make such a drastic move. Only maybe if death was the immient option.
> I'd be like Job, or maybe it was Kristofferson:  Why me, Lord?


Haha. You sound just like my husband. I offered him some bean salad yesterday. If looks could kill ....
Besides which, I’m honestly not trying to convert anyone. What others eat is none of my business or concern.


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

And this is for all those who offered help and guidance . I’m most grateful.


----------



## drifter (May 28, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Haha. You sound just like my husband. I offered him some bean salad yesterday. If looks could kill ....
> Besides which, I’m honestly not trying to convert anyone. What others eat is none of my business or concern.


But I think, "You poor Lady, so much suffering." Good luck.


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

drifter said:


> But I think, "You poor Lady, so much suffering." Good luck.


No suffering here. In fact, now I’m no longer suffering but thanks for your concern all the same.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 28, 2020)

I love beans but too many carbs.  I also am trying to drink more and eat less.  Its always been hard for me to drink a lot, but I am working at it really hard and am somewhat successful recently.  So, Keesha, I’ll go with you on the drinking , but not the vegetarian journey.


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

I find it difficult to drinking 8 to 10 cups of water a day so don’t.

They are a lot of carbs but I don’t sweeten  them and not eating any candy or junk food. Plus there’s plenty of vegetables in there. I say as I stuff a handful of popcorn in my mouth.


----------



## treeguy64 (May 28, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Today I made my first gluten free vegan pizza with no yeast. It’s quick & easy. The  dough is basically the same which I cut in half so I could make two.
> 
> Then I rolled it out on the cutting board but made a foolish mistake. I know @StarSong will figure it out.
> 
> ...


K, next time around, take a pizza stone, spray with canola oil, plop your dough in the center, and roll it out. Yeah, pizza stones give a crispy crust if they're preheated, but I found that rolling dough was then hazardous to my health.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 28, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I find it difficult to drinking 8 to 10 cups of water a day so don’t.
> 
> They are a lot of carbs but I don’t sweeten  them and not eating any candy or junk food. Plus there’s plenty of vegetables in there. I say as I stuff a handful of popcorn in my mouth.


I gave up popcorn two weeks ago.  Sigh.


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> K, next time around, take a pizza stone, spray with canola oil, plop your dough in the center, and roll it out. Yeah, pizza stones give a crispy crust if they're preheated, but I found that rolling dough was then hazardous to my health.


I’ve never used one of them  and knowing me I’d probably burn myself. What I’d love to have is one of those outdoor pizza ovens. Wood fire pizza is really good too.

Do you make pizza treeguy and if so how do you make yours? I’m not looking for a recipe or anything  . Just curious.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 28, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I find it difficult to drinking 8 to 10 cups of water a day so don’t.
> 
> They are a lot of carbs but I don’t sweeten  them and not eating any candy or junk food. Plus there’s plenty of vegetables in there. I say as I stuff a handful of popcorn in my mouth.


I am drinking over 72 ounces a day Plus.  I just chug the stuff warm.  Only way I can do it and it’s killing me.   But my blood test results showed my kidney results were worst so drink, drink, drink.  Followed by pee, pee, pee.  I mean what’s the point?


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I gave up popcorn two weeks ago.  Sigh.


Gave up popcorn for jelly beans?


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 28, 2020)

I make my pizza by ordering it


----------



## Gardenlover (May 28, 2020)

I think Treeguy64 (who is now probably 67 -   ) should publish an ebook Vegetarian cookbook on Amazon.  I'd buy it.


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I am drinking over 72 ounces a day Plus.  I just chug the stuff warm.  Only way I can do it and it’s killing me.   But my blood test results showed my kidney results were worst so drink, drink, drink.  Followed by pee, pee, pee.  I mean what’s the point?


What’s the point? To flush toxins out of your system?


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 28, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Gave up popcorn for jelly beans?


Nope, jelly beans are for my darling husband, after what he did to our front lawn the only candy he is allowed is jelly beans.  He has declined to let me buy them for him.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 28, 2020)

Keesha said:


> What’s the point? To flush toxins out of your system?


Idk.  I thought when you were in kidney failure you were supposed to drink less, but she wants me to drink more.


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Nope, jelly beans are for my darling husband, after what he did to our front lawn the only can he is allowed is jelly beans.  He has declined to let me buy them for him.


The poor guy!


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Idk.  I thought when you were in kidney failure you were supposed to drink less, but she wants me to drink more.


Well if you wish to feel better perhaps you should listen to your medical care experts. I mean, that’s why you go to them.


----------



## Gardenlover (May 28, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I find it difficult to drinking 8 to 10 cups of water a day so don’t.
> 
> They are a lot of carbs but I don’t sweeten  them and not eating any candy or junk food. Plus there’s plenty of vegetables in there. I say as I stuff a handful of popcorn in my mouth.


Turn the water into wine - and bam - no problem drinking 10 cups. I'm here to help and will be here all week.


----------



## SeaBreeze (May 28, 2020)

We've gone several weeks at a time purely vegetarian, that's been easy, so many dishes to choose from.  I think it's good to do that now and then, gives the system a break.  But we both enjoy our steaks, etc., so that won't be eliminated completely.  We all should do what feels right for us, it is our body and health.  Good health to everyone, no matter what choices you make!


----------



## Keesha (May 28, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> Turn the water into wine - and bam - no problem drinking 10 cups. I'm here to help and will be here all week.


----------



## treeguy64 (May 28, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I’ve never used one of them  and knowing me I’d probably burn myself. What I’d love to have is one of those outdoor pizza ovens. Wood fire pizza is really good too.
> 
> Do you make pizza treeguy and if so how do you make yours? I’m not looking for a recipe or anything  . Just curious.


Yep, I make my own, from scratch. Low-gluten crust, using spelt, egg replacer, baking powder, garlic, olive oil and water. Toppings, usually, black olives, onion, broccoli, spinach, mushrooms, tomatoes. Sauce, tomato puree, garlic, turmeric, oregano, olive oil. Vegan cheese, mozzarella and provolone. Vegan parmesan, once everything is cooling.


----------



## Keesha (May 29, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Yep, I make my own, from scratch. Low-gluten crust, using spelt, egg replacer, baking powder, garlic, olive oil and water. Toppings, usually, black olives, onion, broccoli, spinach, mushrooms, tomatoes. Sauce, tomato puree, garlic, turmeric, oregano, olive oil. Vegan cheese, mozzarella and provolone. Vegan parmesan, once everything is cooling.


When you roll out your dough, do you place your rolled dough on a cooking tray or pizza stone before adding the toppings and I’d you have a pizza stone, do they work good? I’ve never tried a pizza stone . I use a pizza try with holes in the bottom so the bottom gets cooked evenly but am wondering if there’s a better way.

Do you have one of those big pizza spatulas?
I don’t know what they are called but I’m sure you know what I mean. 

I love making pizza. Do you make pizzas fresh each time or do you make a batch and freeze some of them?


----------



## StarSong (May 29, 2020)

Pizza peels.


----------



## Keesha (May 29, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Pizza peels.


Just discovered that ‘now,’ THANKS!!
Pizza peels!!!
Do you have a metal one, wood one or other type?
I need one of these because the last time I made the mistake of adding all my toppings first and then tried lifting it without one of these. Hence the reason why you never saw a photo of the entire pizza cooked. It was a right mess.


----------



## treeguy64 (May 29, 2020)

Keesha said:


> When you roll out your dough, do you place your rolled dough on a cooking tray or pizza stone before adding the toppings and I’d you have a pizza stone, do they work good? I’ve never tried a pizza stone . I use a pizza try with holes in the bottom so the bottom gets cooked evenly but am wondering if there’s a better way.
> 
> Do you have one of those big pizza spatulas?
> I don’t know what they are called but I’m sure you know what I mean.
> ...


I spray the stone, put the dough ball in the center, pound it down with my hands, roll it using a 6" mini roller. 
I have a pizza peel, the giant spatula. A must for getting it off the stone, while it's in the oven, and onto a pizza tray, for cutting. 
I make pizzas fresh, each time. 
Bon appetit!


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 29, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> I spray the stone, put the dough ball in the center, pound it down with my hands, roll it using a 6" mini roller.
> I have a pizza peel, the giant spatula. A must for getting it off the stone, while it's in the oven, and onto a pizza tray, for cutting.
> I make pizzas fresh, each time.
> Bon appetit!


So does Little Caesar, , all that work, you guys must really like to cook.  We actually cooked/made enchiladas from scratch yesterday.  Made our own taco season, our own sauce, and then beef/cheese enchiladas.  We had to buy all the seasonings, since we had none, and a 1 pound bag of flour.

Took an hour plus and used almost every dish we owned.  It was really good, but I can’t imagine doing this every single day, two or three times a day.  How do you manage to do anything else?


----------



## Keesha (May 29, 2020)

Yes Anneda, some people actually take pride in self preservation and that involves caring about what goes into the body. Some people prefer to take their health into their own hands instead of relying on others to do it.  There’s a certain satisfaction in making  our own foods since then we know EXACTLY what’s in it  which is extra beneficial so we can address any health issues through dietary changes. Making your own food is usually cheaper than buying prepared & prepackaged foods and especially cheaper than take out junk food.

If this diet isn’t for you than why keeping posting in this thread. I’m not trying to convince anyone here to change their mind about what they eat. I’m not hurting anyone on this forum by eating a diet that is best for me.

Anyway this morning I made myself fluffy gluten free pancakes . They are dairy free but not completely vegan as I did use an egg. I substitute coconut milk for milk and the cheese is vegan provolone. Ummm. They are delicious. Look at  poor me suffering.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 29, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Yes Anneda, some people actually take pride in self preservation and that involves caring about what goes into the body. Some people prefer to take their health into their own hands instead of relying on others to do it.  There’s a certain satisfaction in making  our own foods since then we know EXACTLY what’s in them which is extra beneficial so we can address any health issues through dietary changes. Making your own food is usually cheaper than buying prepared & prepackaged foods and especially cheaper than take out junk food.
> 
> If this diet isn’t for you than why keeping posting in this thread. I’m not trying to convince anyone here to change their mind about what they eat. I’m not hurting anyone on this forum by eating a diet that is best for me.
> 
> ...


Alrighty then, I thought we were talking and sharing, but apparenrly I am wrong.  I will put you on ignore.  Please do the same for me.


----------



## Keesha (May 29, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Alrighty then, I thought we were talking and sharing, but apparenrly I am wrong.  I will put you on ignore.  Please do the same for me.


Yes and I thought we were also but your joking around is all based around poking fun of this way of eating and after a while it gets old. I won’t put you on ignore as I don’t have anything against you  but if you wish to do that then I’m ok with that also.


----------



## treeguy64 (May 31, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Yes Anneda, some people actually take pride in self preservation and that involves caring about what goes into the body. Some people prefer to take their health into their own hands instead of relying on others to do it.  There’s a certain satisfaction in making  our own foods since then we know EXACTLY what’s in it  which is extra beneficial so we can address any health issues through dietary changes. Making your own food is usually cheaper than buying prepared & prepackaged foods and especially cheaper than take out junk food.
> 
> If this diet isn’t for you than why keeping posting in this thread. I’m not trying to convince anyone here to change their mind about what they eat. I’m not hurting anyone on this forum by eating a diet that is best for me.
> 
> ...


Get egg replacer, K. It works very well. 



As for that person who's dissing what you post, in here: Ignore List.


----------



## MarciKS (May 31, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Get egg replacer, K. It works very well.
> 
> View attachment 107552
> 
> As for that person who's dissing what you post, in here: Ignore List.


Is that similar to liquid eggs?


----------



## Keesha (May 31, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Get egg replacer, K. It works very well.
> 
> View attachment 107552
> 
> As for that person who's dissing what you post, in here: Ignore List.


Thanks so much for this. You know, I looked around for something like this but the only thing suggested was to get flax seed and make my own flax egg and it’s just not suitable for many foods. I REALLY like Bobs Red Mill brand. They are a very reliable source for food substitutes.

By the way, I’m really liking that provolone cheese. Yesterday I made another vegan pizza and this time I grated this cheese and it tasted just like regular pizza. I hadn’t thought of that before so thanks again for the recommendation.

This diet is really improving a health issue I’ve suffered with for most of life. It’s not completely gone and probably never will but it’s certainly improved tenfold. Another major improvement is that my sinus infection is starting to clear up on its own. This is a problem that was continuously getting worse each year to the point where it was affecting my sense of smell and taste, not to mention basic breathing. Being a singer / saxophonist, it had a huge impact so I am really happy about this. Just these health issues alone have made this transition worth it.


----------



## treeguy64 (May 31, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Is that similar to liquid eggs?


No. Powder, that I mix in with my other dry ingredients, and then add a tablespoon, or two, of water, per (called for) egg.


----------



## MarciKS (May 31, 2020)

Thank you. If it's flax then it would be good for cholesterol too.


----------



## MarciKS (May 31, 2020)

what about this? is this good?


----------



## StarSong (May 31, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Just discovered that ‘now,’ THANKS!!
> Pizza peels!!!
> Do you have a metal one, wood one or other type?
> I need one of these because the last time I made the mistake of adding all my toppings first and then tried lifting it without one of these. Hence the reason why you never saw a photo of the entire pizza cooked. It was a right mess.
> ...


I have both. 
Pizza going into the oven slides off a wooden peel very easily (I dust the peel with a semolina/flour combo), and the metal one is much better at turning the pizza in the oven and removing it when it's done.

Unlike @treeguy64, I never spray anything on my pizza stone. When I make pizza I preheat the oven at its very hottest temperature (about 550-600) for a full hour with two 16" stones in place. One on the top rack, one on the second to lowest.

Mind you, I make traditional pizza dough, meaning it contains flour and yeast, and the dough gets a 2-3 day cold rise. Because of this effort and the hour preheating, I don't make one or two pizzas at a time. I can't actually the last time I made fewer than a dozen, but it was definitely at least 15 years ago.

My frozen/reheated pizza is excellent. We add vegetable toppings before reheating in a preheated convection toaster oven. Cook at 425 for exactly 7 minutes.


----------



## treeguy64 (May 31, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I have both.
> Pizza going into the oven slides off a wooden peel very easily (I dust the peel with a semolina/flour combo), and the metal one is much better at turning the pizza in the oven and removing it when it's done.
> 
> Unlike @treeguy64, I never spray anything on my pizza stone. When I make pizza I preheat the oven at its very hottest temperature (about 550-600) for a full hour with two 16" stones in place. One on the top rack, one on the second to lowest.
> ...


Wait, you make a DOZEN pizzas at a time? Must be great having a commercial quality, walk-in freezer at your house. I don't have the room for that, unfortunately. In my dream house, I have always wanted a walk-in refrigerator leading to a walk in freezer. Maybe one of these days.........

I could never place my dough on a heated pizza stone since my low gluten mix is not able to be easily moved, once rolled out. That's why I have to roll it out on a cool, oiled pizza stone, and then place it in the oven.

Hold on... You turn your pizzas, in the oven?  OK, I think I'm understanding: You just make a bunch of crusts at one time, not fully dressed pizzas, right?


----------



## treeguy64 (May 31, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I have both.
> Pizza going into the oven slides off a wooden peel very easily (I dust the peel with a semolina/flour combo), and the metal one is much better at turning the pizza in the oven and removing it when it's done.
> 
> Unlike @treeguy64, I never spray anything on my pizza stone. When I make pizza I preheat the oven at its very hottest temperature (about 550-600) for a full hour with two 16" stones in place. One on the top rack, one on the second to lowest.
> ...


OK, so, you flip your crusts, while they're baking. You want extra crispy crusts? What's your baking time?

Then you freeze them. Then what? You take out a frozen crust, thaw it, dress it, and then bake it, again? I'm having a tough time figuring this out, and I was the head pizza guy at one of the most popular pizza places in Champaign.


----------



## StarSong (May 31, 2020)

@treeguy64 We let the pizzas cool completely, cut them in quarters, separate them with waxed paper, then stack them flat in 2 gallon freezer ziplock bags.  Eight or ten quarters to a bag.    

The pizzas go in the oven, fully dressed (other than veggies or basil, if they're going in the freezer). About halfway through, I open the oven, slide the peel under the pizza, pull it halfway out, give the pizza a spin, and then put it back in to finish cooking. If I've got another pizza on the wooden peel, I move the first pizza to the top stone and put the new pizza on the bottom stone. 

It sounds complicated, but hubby & I have this down to a really good rhythm. 

We have a standard upright freezer in the garage and a gas (double) wall oven in the kitchen.


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## StarSong (May 31, 2020)

Baking time is 8-10 minutes.


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## treeguy64 (May 31, 2020)

StarSong said:


> @treeguy64 We let the pizzas cool completely, cut them in quarters, separate them with waxed paper, then stack them flat in 2 gallon freezer ziplock bags.  Eight or ten quarters to a bag.
> 
> The pizzas go in the oven, fully dressed (other than veggies or basil, if they're going in the freezer). About halfway through, I open the oven, slide the peel under the pizza, pull it halfway out, give the pizza a spin, and then put it back in to finish cooking. If I've got another pizza on the wooden peel, I move the first pizza to the top stone and put the new pizza on the bottom stone.
> 
> ...




Sorry, I'm very confused. What type of pizza do you make, initially? After they're cooled, and quartered, you freeze them, yes?  Then, what happens when you want a pizza with toppings? Take me from the frozen quarter to a veggie slice on your plate.

This sounds so complex. I simply make a pizza, and eat it, in about a thirty-five minute time frame:
Five minutes on the crust, five minutes to roll out and dress, twenty minutes in the oven, five minutes to eat a slice, or two.


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## StarSong (May 31, 2020)

I make a standard cheese pizza.  Sauce and cheese only.  Light on the cheese.  Undercooked only slightly until the underpart of the crust is light brown but not yet dark-spotted.  Then cool, quarter & freeze.  
I defrost the quarters for an hour or so. Add toppings like bell pepper, mushrooms, basil, etc., and put it in the convection oven for 8 minutes. 

I like crusts that have had a long rise. And thin crust only. Naples or NY style.


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## Keesha (May 31, 2020)

Ok I’m sure learning a lot here. I’ve never used a pizza stone or pizza press and I actually enjoy making pizza a lot so this is something I’m on the look out for. My man usually makes our wooden utensils so I’ll see if he can make me one. He’s actually very good at woodworking. Far better than 

Thanks. I completely enjoyed the pizza conversation. Speaking of basil. Does anyone put whole basil leaves on theirs.

I’ve currently got about 5 different types of mints growing so I’m making hot mint tea and cool tea with lemon. So yummy and soothing on the stomach. 

Egg replacement I hadn’t even considered researching but now I will try and find Bobs Red Mill egg replacer.

Your method of making basic pizza crusts sounds quite handy. I’m wondering if it will work with gluten free the same. I’ve made pizza dough without cooking it and placed it in the freezer fine. Without the gluten, anything pre-made doesn’t last the same but I’ll experiment some.

I’m surprised at the oven temperature. I cook my pizza @ 450 degrees and even that seems high.

Does anyone make their own Pesto Sauce here using fresh basil. My basil doesn’t seem to last the winters here so I going to try and grow it in the greenhouse this year. I’ve got all kinds of vegetables growing in there now as well as some winterized oregano.

That’s great that you can safely cook two pizza crusts at once. You clearly have more than one pizza stone. 




StarSong said:


> I have both.
> Pizza going into the oven slides off a wooden peel very easily (I dust the peel with a semolina/flour combo), and the metal one is much better at turning the pizza in the oven and removing it when it's done.
> 
> Unlike @treeguy64, I never spray anything on my pizza stone. When I make pizza I preheat the oven at its very hottest temperature (about 550-600) for a full hour with two 16" stones in place. One on the top rack, one on the second to lowest.
> ...


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## StarSong (May 31, 2020)

I have four stones, all told.  Two in my house, one in my camper, and a fourth that I bought for one of my kids but he beat me to it and bought his own, so the family has a spare.   In over 20 years of pizza stone use I've only replaced two. One got cracked over the years, the other broke when we tried using it on the BBQ. One and done on the BBQ experiment.

I prefer only one pizza in the oven at a time, but occasionally I mis-time my next pizza and have one ready before the previous one is finished. Rather than having the second one wait and stick to the peel , we move the first one up and put in the second. The problem with two in at a time is that it means opening the oven more often and the temperature drops.

Wood and coal fired pizzeria ovens get hotter than 800 degrees.  Their pizzas cook in 90 seconds or so!  
My puny 550-600 degree temp is well within tolerance for flour based pizza.  Reminder - I don't know anything about GF cooking or baking.    

Because some swear by it, a couple of times I've tried freezing pizza dough but really, really dislike the results.  They're harder to work with, don't stretch properly and the flavor/texture isn't up to par.  

We always have pizza in the freezer, as does my daughter (I'm her family's pizza pusher-man.) When either or both of households get low, I schedule a pizza making session. Usually her family comes over and we make an afternoon/evening of it, but with the stay-at-home situation hubby & I just make them and hand off their share of the spoils.

I put full basil leaves on Margherita pizzas. I sometimes add them a minute (or less) before pulling them out of the oven, but generally put them on right as they come out of the oven. Fresh basil leaves on pizza are like making garlic bread. When you put either in the oven, someone has to be assigned to doing nothing else but watching them. They get overdone the instant one's attention is diverted.

We have basil plants in the garden, but I've never been successful at keeping them alive for very long over winter, not even as house plants. I buy two plants at a time at Trader Joe's to get us through winter pizza.  I try to encourage them along to last for two pizza-making sessions. Overall success rate is about 50%.  No matter.  TJ always has them and at $4 or $5 for a plant, I can afford to replace them.


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## Keesha (Jun 2, 2020)

Thanks Starsong 
What you write makes perfect sense. The pizza stones sound like just what a need. Having more than one pizza in the oven at a time is what I wondered about. How would they cook evenly. It seems similar to putting two trays in the oven at once.

I had no idea fire / coal pizzas cook so fast and at over 800 degrees. That’s very hot. The hottest my oven gets is only 500 degrees. Gluten free baking is VERY different and probably not something used like to try. Gluten is what gives flour it’s stretch and stickiness so many alternatives are used to try and replicate it and not always successful. I probably tried hundreds of ways how NOT to make something before I discovered a way to make it.

I’m surprised you can’t grow basil where you live. I figured I couldn’t since I live in a 4b zone. You’re in a zone 9 or something but now I understand how fragile basil really is and yes it wilts and burns quickly. It’s so good though. Do you ever make fresh pesto sauce? That’s really good on pizza crust and pasta. it looks like I won’t be winterizing it in my greenhouse, after what you’ve written. I’ll do what you do and buy one somewhere. I do have some growing lights to keep them healthy & alive.

Thanks Starsong. That’s great info.


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## Keesha (Jun 2, 2020)

Now on a more serious note.
Questions for any other vegan / vegetarians.

When you started this diet, did you find you couldn’t sleep well? At first I noticed a huge surge in energy which was great but then I’m also not sleeping well which isn’t good.

Another thing I noticed is depression. I’ve got a depressive disorder as well as some other mental health disorders which seem to be aggravated by eating this diet so I researched this and was surprised to learn that it’s a common denominator in eating this way. Apparently the lack of vitamin D from not eating dairy products along with the lack of B12 in not eating any animal products can affect sleep and moods. Here’s some info about it.

Any thoughts on this? It’s really a major concern for me.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/theslee...how-eating-vegetarian-affects-your-sleep/amp/

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.psy...tion-between-vegetarianism-and-depression?amp


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thethirty.whowhatwear.com/amp/vegan-diet-and-depression


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## StarSong (Jun 2, 2020)

You're very welcome for the info.  
To clear it up a bit, I can grow basil outside during the summer, but they die when winter's shorter days and cooler nights arrive.  I've never tried using grow lights, but your post inspires me to check into it.

The step-by-step instructions on this website seem reasonable and doable. If you'd check the site out when you get a minute and give your opinion, I'd really appreciate it. https://thepeasantsdaughter.net/how-to-grow-basil-indoors/

To answer your question, I haven't made pesto in a long time because the best pesto has plenty of oil and cheese.  I suppose I could try it with vegan cheese though.  Perhaps @treeguy64 can steer us in a good direction on that.


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## StarSong (Jun 2, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Now on a more serious note.
> Questions for any other vegan / vegetarians.
> 
> When you started this diet, did you find you couldn’t sleep well? At first I noticed a huge surge in energy which was great but then I’m also not sleeping well which isn’t good.
> ...



I require less sleep now, which is why I'm up so early most days.  No depression.  I take 4000 iu of Vitamin D daily, and a sublingual Vitamin B12 twice weekly.  B12 supplements are universally recommended for WFPB and vegans.  

Please take care of yourself, @Keesha. If it turns out that you need some meat or dairy to preserve your mental health, don't beat yourself up for it. Remember - you're doing this for YOU, for as long as it works for YOU. 

You'll win the battle but lose the war if your body feels a little healthier but your emotional state prevents you from enjoying it.


----------



## Keesha (Jun 2, 2020)

StarSong said:


> You're very welcome for the info.
> To clear it up a bit, I can grow basil outside during the summer, but they die when winter's shorter days and cooler nights arrive.  I've never tried using grow lights, but your post inspires me to check into it.
> 
> The step-by-step instructions on this website seem reasonable and doable. If you'd check the site out when you get a minute and give your opinion, I'd really appreciate it. https://thepeasantsdaughter.net/how-to-grow-basil-indoors/
> ...


While I’m a fairly good grower I don’t know anything about growing basil and like you haven’t had much success but do agree with the article that trying to grow plants near a window isn’t the greatest idea. I’ve got some good LED lights and a 100 watt that I think would work ideally in a spare bedroom closet.
Keeping the lights on at night time while you sleep is actually a good idea while using LED lights since looking at them can strain your eyes. That’s a good point.

Growing indoor herbs is something I’ve always wanted to do but have never taken it seriously enough to do so far. I’ve considered winterizing the greenhouse and adding a heater but the cost may not make it worthwhile but since my oregano winterized I’m curious what else will.

I think what I’d do first is purchase basil plants and keep them growing year round but growing from seeds sounds interesting. Proper pruning makes perfect sense. Even pinching marijuana plants creates much bushier, healthier plants.

I’ll have to look at the article more later when I have more time. Great link though. I forgot about the oil aspect when I asked about Pesto Sauce. Yes it definitely does have a lot of oil but I’m sure it can be successfully made cheese free. Treeguy would be the best person for this question.

One thing I’ve learned about saving herbs to use for cooking which works well is to cut the herbs into pieces and free them in water. You can use ice cube trays to freeze them and once frozen transfer to plastic freezer bags, label what it is and store in freezer. When ready to use for cooking you take the necessary amount of cubes out , thaw and use. It’s like using fresh herbs and  is far better than trying to dry your herbs for later. There’s no mould and far less mess.


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## treeguy64 (Jun 2, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Now on a more serious note.
> Questions for any other vegan / vegetarians.
> 
> When you started this diet, did you find you couldn’t sleep well? At first I noticed a huge surge in energy which was great but then I’m also not sleeping well which isn’t good.
> ...


Get D3 and B12, today. I take 1,000 IU of D3, three times a day,  and 1,000 mcg of B12, daily.

Watch out for too much basil intake. Contrary to things online, I found that I started getting down when I used too much basil, in my dishes. I hardly use it at all, now. No go, on pesto.


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## StarSong (Jun 2, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Get D3 and B12, today. I take 1,000 IU of D3, three times a day,  and 1,000 mcg of B12, daily.
> 
> Watch out for too much basil intake. Contrary to things online, I found that I started getting down when I used too much basil, in my dishes. I hardly use it at all, now. No go, on pesto.


Good to know about basil.  I only use it on pizza and sometimes for caprese-type salads using vegan cheese when my garden tomatoes ripen.


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## Keesha (Jun 2, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Get D3 and B12, today. I take 1,000 IU of D3, three times a day,  and 1,000 mcg of B12, daily.
> 
> Watch out for too much basil intake. Contrary to things online, I found that I started getting down when I used too much basil, in my dishes. I hardly use it at all, now. No go, on pesto.


Normally I take D3 but I ran out about about a month ago and forgot to get more. I take B100’s daily and it’s got 1,000 mcg’s of B12. Oddly enough years ago my blood work came out deficient in B12 so I had to take shots for a while but I’ve never been a big meat eater so that makes sense. Maybe I’ll get B12 on the side. With having the digestive disorders, my body might use up more than the average person. Actually I need the B complex daily. When I start to forget to take them I get agitated. Note: my medical practitioners are all for taking the supplements I do and encourage their use. 

As far as the basil goes I don’t think that’s what’s depressing me. I’ve always found basil to help me along with other herbs  but I’ll certainly keep it in mind.

Thanks


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## Keesha (Jun 8, 2020)

Still on my diet and doing well. Yesterday I had veggie burgers and they weren’t bad considering they’re also gluten free. It was tastier than it looks. Another thing is that I’m losing weight now.


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## StarSong (Jun 8, 2020)

That looks so scrumptious, @Keesha!  We've been leaning toward veggie burgers with the warmer weather.  It feels so much more like summer when there are burgers on the grill!


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## Keesha (Jun 8, 2020)

StarSong said:


> That looks so scrumptious, @Keesha!  We've been leaning toward veggie burgers with the warmer weather.  It feels so much more like summer when there are burgers on the grill!


Yes which is great for the BBQ or when invited to other people’s house for a BBQ since you can take your own burgers to cook on the grill. The grill is something I’d surely miss. Even the smell of food cooking on a grill would drive me nuts so I’m very happy to have figured out an alternative while sticking to my diet. Thank you.


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## Keesha (Jun 8, 2020)

Things I like but wasn’t sure if I could find the equivalent in dairy free or vegan. Most salad dressings I make myself but I really like a thick Ranch Dressing and this one is really nice so thought I’d share my findings.


For those who love a delicious dairy &  gluten free cheese cake  daiya makes several different types including chocolate & key lime.

Sweets from the Earth makes this delicious vegan gluten free expresso cheesecake that is simply scrumptious.


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## MarciKS (Jun 8, 2020)

How's your transitioning going Keesh?

Also do you all get any weight loss benefits from this? Cuz I've seen some hefty vegans or vegetarians.


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## Keesha (Jun 9, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> How's your transitioning going Keesh?
> 
> Also do you all get any weight loss benefits from this? Cuz I've seen some hefty vegans or vegetarians.


It’s going very well thanks MarciKS. I’ve stuck to it religiously and am quite happy with how I’m feeling.  I don’t crave meat at all . It’s a bit more tricky for me as I’m not only eliminating meat but dairy and gluten. Going gluten free is quite challenging itself but eliminating all animal products including dairy and eggs, even more so but it’s making me more aware of my food choices.

I AM losing weight but I think that’s more to do with the fact that I’m not eating as many sweets and things. For a while I was on a gluten free chocolate cake and cashew ice cream phase as well as jube jubes and wine gums. My husband eats a lot of junk and when he was home all the time it was much harder not indulging but he’s gone back to work now so I’m starting to lose weight.

Starsong claims that sticking to her vegetarian diet has kept her trim and fit but I haven’t seen much change. Possibly since I didn’t eat much meat to begin with. For me, carbohydrates are the culprit and vegetarians probably eat more carbs than most people or at least it seems that way for me.

Years ago, when I was in my twenties, I worked for a health food store whose owner was vegetarian and she was a big woman. I think weight has got more to do with your eating habits and how much energy you burn. Plus there are some very unhealthy vegetarians who eliminate meat but eat lots of junk food. Not a good choice for keeping the weight off.

Also I don’t cut back on my healthy oils which I use a lot in cooking and salad dressings. I find it great for the hair and skin as well as mental functioning. Living without my healthy oils I couldn’t do.

It’s probably not the answer you were hoping for.


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## MarciKS (Jun 9, 2020)

I just have to wonder if all those carbs are gonna make it so I become diabetic. Without the carbs I'm so friggin hungry all the time. It is beginning to feel like a losing battle for me.

I'm glad it's going well for you.


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## StarSong (Jun 9, 2020)

Keesha said:


> *Starsong claims that sticking to her vegetarian diet has kept her trim and fit *but I haven’t seen much change. Possibly since I didn’t eat much meat to begin with. For me, carbohydrates are the culprit and vegetarians probably eat more carbs than most people or at least it seems that way for me. Years ago, when I was in my twenties, I worked for a health food store whose owner was vegetarian and she was a big woman. I think weight has got more to do with your eating habits and how much energy you burn. Plus there are some very unhealthy vegetarians who eliminate meat but eat lots of junk food. Not a good choice for keeping the weight off.
> 
> *Also I don’t cut back on my healthy oils which I use a lot in cooking and salad dressings.* I find it great for the hair and skin as well as mental functioning. Living without my healthy oils I couldn’t do.


There's a world of difference between eating vegetarian/vegan and eating Whole Food Plant Based, which is what I aspire to and follow pretty closely.  Added oils aren't part of a WFPB diet, though I do use a bit (maximum of a couple tsp a day including salad dressings).  I do eat a fair amount of olives, nuts, avocados and hummus though.           

As Keesha said, lots of vegetarians & vegans skimp on healthy foods. After all, french fries and potato chips are vegan, ditto candy, granola bars (candy bars with better branding), most doughnuts, cookies, crackers, soda, alcohol, and many more. Same with sugar, molasses, white flour, shortening. All are vegan, all are unhealthy, and all will pack on weight if eaten regularly.


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## MarciKS (Jun 9, 2020)

whole food plant based diet huh? might have to try that. i'll have to figure out something for the gas though. does that part go away eventually?

and do you ever crave anything sweet @StarSong?


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## StarSong (Jun 9, 2020)

Yes, the gas went away after a couple of weeks (or less).

I do eat more sweets than I wish. Human DNA is programmed to crave sweets and fats. Sweet flavors guided us to berries, fruits and vegetables (most of which are slightly sweet) that contain everything a healthy human needs for good health and survival. Bitterness steered us away from poisonous plants. Odors emitted from spoiled foods send us running, but attract the creatures who find them quite tasty.

High fat foods are concentrated sources of calories - lots of bang for the effort buck which helped our survival.  That's not to say our ancestors gorged on fats. Can you imagine eating a bunch of avocados by themselves - like apples?  More a couple at once would make you feel a little sick, even though an average whole avocado contains less than 3 tablespoons of actual fat.  Indeed, there's more fat in a Sausage, Cheese McMuffin than an entire avocado.    

Our hunter/gatherer evolutionary past didn't anticipate concentrated forms of these foods being endlessly available.

I try to avoid purchasing sweets and almost never bake from January through mid-November, but yes, there's vegan ice cream in my freezer and I do indulge. Especially now.


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## Keesha (Jun 9, 2020)

StarSong said:


> but yes, there's vegan ice cream in my freezer


Vegan ice cream in the freezer? Interesting concept! 

If mines in the freezer, it’s not there more than a few hours.


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## MarciKS (Jun 9, 2020)

I didn't know there was vegan ice cream!


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## Keesha (Jun 9, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I didn't know there was vegan ice cream!


You bet there are plenty of delicious vegan ice creams including some famous ice cream makers like Hagen Daz and Ben & Jerry’s


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## StarSong (Jun 9, 2020)

Trader Joe's and Aldi have some good vegan ice creams, too.


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## MarciKS (Jun 9, 2020)

Ben & Jerry's? ~drools~


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## Keesha (Jun 10, 2020)

Of course I had to have some. Salted caramel vegan ice cream with all the talk of ice cream. It’s not the least bit disappointing. My picture wouldn’t download but it looked like this.


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## Keesha (Jun 10, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Trader Joe's and Aldi have some good vegan ice creams, too.


We don’t have Trader Joes or Aldis but apparently we are going  to. We do have franchises like ‘no frills,’ which guarantees the lowest price on anything they sell and they even have an entire isle full of whole food & specialty  foods including gluten free bread, vegan creams and cheeses and alternative flours and baking goods. Grocery stores have sure come a long way.

In the greenhouse I have a lot of vegetables growing including tomatoes, lettuce, chard, peppers and spinach which I’m looking forward to eating.


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## StarSong (Jun 11, 2020)

For the past week we've been harvesting sun gold (cherry) tomatoes.  Zucchini are starting to come in, too.  Basil and cilantro are thriving.


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## Keesha (Jun 11, 2020)

StarSong said:


> For the past week we've been harvesting sun gold (cherry) tomatoes.  Zucchini are starting to come in, too.  Basil and cilantro are thriving.


Wow. That must be nice. You are way ahead of us. Normally I start earlier here but I had some work to do on my greenhouse first this year and the pandemic didn’t help any.  I’d love to grow some cilantro. I’m going to get more seeds this year of things I like use in cooking and eating. Fresh Sun gold cherry tomatoes. I’m somewhat jealous . Lol.


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## StarSong (Jun 11, 2020)

Yes, the sun golds are soooo sweet.  We have a very long tomato season.  Our plants produce throughout the summer and then have a second, much smaller crop in October - November.  

Living in So Cal means an incredibly good stream of very reasonably priced produce year-round because of our proximity to Mexico, Central & (northern) South America, and most especially California's Central Valley (which provides about half our nation's half of the fruits, vegetables and nuts). 

Believe me, I'm grateful.


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## MarciKS (Jun 11, 2020)

I don't garden. I couldn't keep houseplants alive let alone a garden.


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## Pinky (Jun 11, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I don't garden. I couldn't keep houseplants alive let alone a garden.


At last, someone just like me


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## MarciKS (Jun 11, 2020)

I've been trying to find ways to eat the veggies and fruit that won't be a problem. Sometimes I have to do canned or frozen or par-cook stuff to be able to chew it. Full set of dentures.


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## Keesha (Jun 11, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Yes, the sun golds are soooo sweet.  We have a very long tomato season.  Our plants produce throughout the summer and then have a second, much smaller crop in October - November.
> 
> Living in So Cal means an incredibly good stream of very reasonably priced produce year-round because of our proximity to Mexico, Central & (northern) South America, and most especially California's Central Valley (which provides about half our nation's half of the fruits, vegetables and nuts).
> 
> Believe me, I'm grateful.


Yes. You live in a wonderful place especially for a vegetarian.


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## Keesha (Jun 11, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I've been trying to find ways to eat the veggies and fruit that won't be a problem. Sometimes I have to do canned or frozen or par-cook stuff to be able to chew it. Full set of dentures.


Frozen is a great substitute or steaming veggies in the microwave. Sometimes I have a bowl of noodles and add a bunch steamed veggies to it and use a sauce like VH’s Mango Curry. It’s what I’m having now. Yummmm.


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## MarciKS (Jun 11, 2020)

The weather is more likely to produce nice things there. Kansas weather isn't that great for gardening anymore.


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## Keesha (Jun 11, 2020)

Pinky said:


> At last, someone just like me


I take it, you’re not growing your own then!


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## StarSong (Jun 11, 2020)

Pinky said:


> At last, someone just like me


My husband breathes life into our garden.  I'm more like the Angel of Death.


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## MarciKS (Jun 11, 2020)

That sounds pretty good Keesha.


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## MarciKS (Jun 11, 2020)

I'll see you girls later. I gotta go get showered for my doc appt. You crack me up. LOL


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## Keesha (Jun 11, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> That sounds pretty good Keesha.


It’s really good and super simple to make. It literally takes about 15 minutes.


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## MarciKS (Jun 11, 2020)

Keesha said:


> It’s really good and super simple to make. It literally takes about 15 minutes.


Quickie meals rock. I'm off to the clinic. {{Hugs}}


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## Keesha (Jun 16, 2020)

Tonight I picked up my egg replacement. It’s the type I wanted too made by Bobs Red Mill which is a reliable brand.


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## Keesha (Jun 18, 2020)

One thing I’ve noticed in the last month is how much hair I’ve lost. My hair has thinned out substantially so in the last two days I’ve had canned tuna. I’m assuming it’s the lack of protein and possibly too many carbs. Any thoughts from others? It’s a lot of hair loss. Found my answer thanks. 

https://www.ahlc.org/go-vegan-without-losing-hair/


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## StarSong (Jun 20, 2020)

Yesterday, our son and his wife dropped by for a masked, outdoor, socially distant Father's Day visit.  Both vegans, their gift to DH included the most amazing ice cream bars. Coconut Bliss.  Heaven on a popsicle stick!
https://coconutbliss.com/


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## MarciKS (Jun 20, 2020)

Keesha said:


> One thing I’ve noticed in the last month is how much hair I’ve lost. My hair has thinned out substantially so in the last two days I’ve had canned tuna. I’m assuming it’s the lack of protein and possibly too many carbs. Any thoughts from others? It’s a lot of hair loss. Found my answer thanks.
> 
> https://www.ahlc.org/go-vegan-without-losing-hair/


Chai seeds? Do you cook with those?


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## Keesha (Jun 20, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Chai seeds? Do you cook with those?


I’ve got those and hemp seeds. It’s going to take some adjusting to get the right amount of protein so I’ve slacked off slightly on the complete vegan diet until I find some better sources of protein without relying on soy.

Im not willing to lose my hair so I’ll need to comprise. Today I made quinoa, chickpea and coconut flour pancakes with a real egg and they were delicious. That’s packed with protein. 
Since I don’t like pancake syrup or soggy pancakes, I don’t make them sweet.

This afternoon I’m going kayaking and I hope to take some photos. It’s got nothing to do with the topic but that’s ok.


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## MarciKS (Jun 20, 2020)

But do you cook with them or just eat them?


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## Keesha (Jun 21, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> But do you cook with them or just eat them?


Cook with them. I’ve put chia seeds in smoothies but it turns the texture into something I can’t handle.  I add hemp hearts to stir fry’s ar the end of cooking along with sesame seeds and chia seeds in things like flat breads and sweet breads. 
One thing I definitely noticed was my energy level started decreasing and it’s definitely from a lack of protein so I’ve tweaked my diet to make up for this. 
The kayaking yesterday sure took off a huge amount of calories. I’m getting back to being fit.


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## Keesha (Jun 21, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Yesterday, our son and his wife dropped by for a masked, outdoor, socially distant Father's Day visit.  Both vegans, their gift to DH included the most amazing ice cream bars. Coconut Bliss.  Heaven on a popsicle stick!
> https://coconutbliss.com/


That sounds like a wonderful time. We went out kayaking yesterday so we could be with our dogs today on Father’s Day. That’s one thing I missed was having them with me/us. They are almost always with me so it felt strange not having them.

We have that brand in our stores. It’s quite good . I’ve not tried the bars though. They look delicious. This kind has been my favourite lately but I’m a real fan of key lime flavour as well. I’m a huge treat fan.


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## StarSong (Jun 21, 2020)

Keesha said:


> That sounds like a wonderful time. We went out kayaking yesterday so we could be with our dogs today on Father’s Day. That’s one thing I missed was having them with me/us. They are almost always with me so it felt strange not having them.
> 
> We have that brand in our stores. It’s quite good . I’ve not tried the bars though. They look delicious. This kind has been my favourite lately but I’m a real fan of key lime flavour as well. I’m a huge treat fan.
> 
> ...


Those look scrumptious.  I believe our Sprouts market carries So Delicious ice creams.  If not, some other local grocers surely do.  Los Angeles has an embarrassment of riches when it comes to plant based foods.


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## MarciKS (Jul 18, 2020)

Been a while since I checked in with you. How's this new diet going?


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