# What's With All The Suicides?



## Lon (Jun 8, 2018)

Now it's my favorite Food Guru Anthony Bourdain. Just one of the many celebs that have recently committed suicide.
All across the U.S. many teen agers and adults have done it. SEEMS SO STRANGE. What's going on?


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## Manatee (Jun 8, 2018)

Welcome back Lon, we missed you.

Regarding suicides, I have to wonder what these folks see when they look in the mirror?


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## BobF (Jun 8, 2018)

With out written statements or videos we will never know.

Could it just be our countries ever looser rules on drugs?   I was declared to be and alcoholic during my forties.   After a month of retraining in a hospital i was able to end drinking, smoking, and temptations for other possible problems. 

Until those folks leave some sort of clues for us, we will never know.    A lot of guesswork will go on, but we will never know.


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## AZ Jim (Jun 8, 2018)

I told ya you'd be back Lon!  Welcome...


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 8, 2018)

Hi Lon how are you doing?

I think it could be an old taboo that is becoming more of a mainstream option for folks as our society continues its slide down the slippery slope.


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## terry123 (Jun 8, 2018)

None of us know the pain people are in and hopefully we  never will.  Glad to hear from you, Lon. Hope you will stay around!


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## Sunny (Jun 8, 2018)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-shows/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fbc6937772b2


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## Marie5656 (Jun 8, 2018)




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## RadishRose (Jun 8, 2018)

It does seem to be a trend- I heard on the news that more people die now via suicide than in car accidents. Very upsetting.


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## rgp (Jun 8, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> It does seem to be a trend- I heard on the news that more people die now via suicide than in car accidents. Very upsetting.



WoW!...not doubting you for a moment, but  that is very hard to believe .


What I find is suicide is # 10....And listed as unintended accidents are #4....and auto accidents [crashes] are lumped in there.


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## RadishRose (Jun 8, 2018)

*More People Die by Suicide Than Car Accidents*

  By John M. Grohol, Psy.D. 
 ~ 2 min read 

https://psychcentral.com/blog/more-people-die-by-suicide-than-car-accidents/

_The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released statistics  yesterday showing that 33,687 people died in motor vehicle accidents,  while nearly 5,000 more — 38,364 — died by suicide. Middle-aged  Americans are making up the biggest leap in the suicide rate.\\

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/health/suicide-rate-rises-sharply-in-us.html

It is the baby boomer group where we see the highest rates of suicide,”  said the C.D.C.’s deputy director, Ileana Arias. “There may be something  about that group, and how they think about life issues and their life  choices that may make a differe

_


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## rgp (Jun 8, 2018)

Conflicting sources ? Once again, whom do we believe ? I sometimes believe [agenda] plays a roll in the reported stats ?

I worked a number of years in traffic accident investigations / inspections....and it was / has always been one of the those near the top. I have been out of the biz...for 18 years, I'm sure allot has changed...and my sourcing become rusty...


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## RadishRose (Jun 8, 2018)

There are more articles, but too depressing to read just now.


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## 911 (Jun 8, 2018)

All of the psychologists that I have spoken with tell me that most suicide victims have feelings of hopelessness and the only way for them to stop their pain is to take their life. 

Probably most of us have known someone that has committed suicide. I have known a few, but the one that has always bothered me is the Trooper that I worked with. He was a very sociable fellow and someone who was anything, but an introvert. 

His father died unexpectedly and for several weeks after that, he seldom interacted with anyone, was always sad and never smiled. His father was his rock. They did most everything together. The Trooper was single, but did have a girlfriend. One day, both his mother and girlfriend called and spoke with our Barrack’s Commander and told him that they thought he may be suicidal.

Before he could be sent to the psychologist for an examination, he went to his Dad’s gravesite and shot himself in the mouth. The local police found him there a day later. Such a tragedy.

The psychologist that came in to speak with us said that suicides are difficult for us to understand and that the tragic part is that they are preventable, if the victim is treated early enough.


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## rgp (Jun 8, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> There are more articles, but too depressing to read just now.



I'll spare ya the long story but...after the advent of car phones, then cell phones...you may be surprised at the number of 'auto-crash' suicides ? Most [a matter of record due to all calls recorded].....are due to ...I'll call it heart break ?...romances ended? etc.


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## RadishRose (Jun 8, 2018)

911 said:


> All of the psychologists that I have spoken with tell me that most suicide victims have feelings of hopelessness and the only way for them to stop their pain is to take their life.
> 
> Probanly most of us have known someone that has committed suicide. I have known a few, but the one that has always bothered me is the Trooper that I worked with. He was a very sociable fellow and someone who was anything, but an introvert.
> 
> ...



Too sad, the poor man!


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## RadishRose (Jun 8, 2018)

rgp said:


> I'll spare ya the long story but...after the advent of car phones, then cell phones...you may be surprised at the number of 'auto-crash' suicides ? Most [a matter of record due to all calls recorded].....are due to ...I'll call it heart break ?...romances ended? etc.



I think I know what you mean rgp. I knew a gal who tried that - went off the road while drunk after having told the guy on her phone what she was going to do. She didn't die, but got pretty banged up pretty bad, face-swollen, black eyes, neck brace and a sling.


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## RadishRose (Jun 8, 2018)

rgp said:


> I'll spare ya the long story but...after the advent of car phones, then cell phones...you may be surprised at the number of 'auto-crash' suicides ? Most [a matter of record due to all calls recorded].....are due to ...I'll call it heart break ?...romances ended? etc.



I think I know what you mean rgp. I knew a gal who tried that - went off the road while drunk after having told the guy on her phone what she was going to do. She didn't die, but got banged up pretty bad, face-swollen, black eyes, neck brace and a sling.


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## Gary O' (Jun 8, 2018)

A kid back in high school did himself in.
A bit of a despicable little critter.
Kids always gave him a raft of shit.
He’d retort with vile, snide remarks.
Always had a sneer like grin on his tiny face.
Dirty, nervous skinny hands.
Easy, very easy to hate.

I didn’t take part in the ridicule of him, but didn’t talk to him either.

He did it by drinking some sorta lethal concoction during Christmas break.
Made me very sad to hear the announcement.

His may be more understandable.

Older folks?

I think of two reasons;
They did something they hid, for a very long time, and it became exposed.
Or
They just cannot live with themselves for any number of possible issues, possibly due to what others think, if they are in any type of limelight, the media might yet again abuse that freedom of speech/press thing.

And if so, that…is truly the saddest of this present society.


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## Lara (Jun 9, 2018)

Reasons for increased suicide...off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

1. Very broken mental health system...VERY broken. i.e. Kate Spade was bi-polar and had tried many times to get help.

2. Very disturbing media that gets more disturbing by the day. TV, movies, video games, gossip magazines, news

3. Marriage and family lacks commitment, support, respect

4. Money, scams, hacking, etc etc....all interconnected. It's a mess. 

5. Disconnect with reality due to technology. Example: Texting/email instead of voice connection and handwritten letters

6. Lack of purpose & spiritual meaning, "what's it all about", confusion, believing the world was created from chaos, fear of the unknown

7. Personal Health, lack of insurance....leading to self medication (alcoholism, drug overdoses)

8. Physical and emotional Pain

9. Loss...a loved one, a job, a home, wars, natural disasters

10. Politics...it's a mess...media makes it much worse

11. Genetics

12. All of the above leading to Homelessness...many mental health facilities shutting down, pushing them out on the streets

The National Suicide hotline is 800-273-8255 (for the US)


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## terry123 (Jun 9, 2018)

I think you covered it, Lara.  Good post!


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## applecruncher (Jun 9, 2018)

Another reason would be lack of joy in one's life; the person lives an isolated life and feels they don't have a reason to get up in the morning... depression.


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## CindyLouWho (Jun 9, 2018)

applecruncher said:


> Another reason would be lack of joy in one's life; the person lives an isolated life and feels they don't have a reason to get up in the morning... depression.


I agree, AC, and it's easy to find yourself more isolated with all the social media to hide behind. 
I remember our subdivision used to have block parties years back and that stopped for whatever reason. 
Less socialization.


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## rgp (Jun 9, 2018)

CindyLouWho said:


> I agree, AC, and it's easy to find yourself more isolated with all the social media to hide behind.
> I remember our subdivision used to have block parties years back and that stopped for whatever reason.
> Less socialization.



IMO, that covers allot of our 'problems'? today. I believe that it started years back with the invention / proliferation of A/C...Used to be that folks gathered & socialized on their stoops , or in their backyards in nice weather. That led to 5-6 months or of socializing . Then the comfort of A/C drew them inside...so we  now have the occasional "high neighbor" ....that's it!

I know of folks right here where I live that have said, hell, I didn't even know that so & so / this & or that family had moved.

I remember when i was a kid, if someone left the street, all the women stood around on move day & 'boo-hoo'd ' about how much they'll miss ?? And the men all stood around drinking beer sayin'...man we're going to miss ya, etc, stay in touch, etc & so-on . 

Now ? IMO...that's a thing of the past.


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## Butterfly (Jun 9, 2018)

Hi, Lon, nice to see you back with us.  

I don't understand suicide, especially in cases where there seems to be no precipitating factor.  Of course, with celebrities we never really know them, we just think we do, and who knows what is really going on in their lives behind the scenes.

I've known three people who committed suicide.  One of them was a man who shot his wife and then himself, planned it very carefully -- even left his dogs with a family member, saying the couple was going out of town, so the dogs wouldn't suffer until the couple was found.  He was a well respected, successful man, in good health and with plenty of money.   The couple had been married for many, many years and seemed fine.  I had worked with him for years and he was very well liked -- I liked him a lot -- he always seemed happy.  No one ever figured out why he made the decision he did.

The second was someone I had also worked with but didn't know as well as I knew the other man, but he seemed happily married and he had a young daughter he adored.  One early Saturday morning out of nowhere he drove to a secluded spot and put a pistol in his mouth.

The third was a man who had had severe depression and other mental problems for years and had become increasingly erratic; he had had all kinds of treatment but nothing worked.  He had refused hospitalization and wasn't seen by doctors as bad enough to hospitalize involuntarily.


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## Butterfly (Jun 9, 2018)

rgp said:


> IMO, that covers allot of our 'problems'? today. I believe that it started years back with the invention / proliferation of A/C...Used to be that folks gathered & socialized on their stoops , or in their backyards in nice weather. That led to 5-6 months or of socializing . Then the comfort of A/C drew them inside...so we  now have the occasional "high neighbor" ....that's it!
> 
> I know of folks right here where I live that have said, hell, I didn't even know that so & so / this & or that family had moved.
> 
> ...



Yeah, it does seem a thing of the past.  Nowdays most people hardly know their neighbors.


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## rgp (Jun 9, 2018)

"The third was a man who had had severe depression and other mental problems for years and had become increasingly erratic; he had had all kinds of treatment but nothing worked. He had refused hospitalization and wasn't seen by doctors as bad enough to hospitalize involuntarily."


 As cold as it sounds, I'd almost rather a person take their own life ...THEIR OWN CHOICE / DECISION...than to be forcibly hospitalized.


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## rgp (Jun 9, 2018)

Only "Knew" one person that took his own life.....after witnessing his sister go through a horrible disease , and himself being diagnosed with same...He ended his own life. This was a very level headed, pragmatic , caring man. The wold lost a good person. I will not sit in judgement of his decision / choice.....I'll only say that I wish modern medicine could do better.


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## CindyLouWho (Jun 9, 2018)

rgp said:


> IMO, that covers allot of our 'problems'? today. I believe that it started years back with the invention / proliferation of A/C...Used to be that folks gathered & socialized on their stoops , or in their backyards in nice weather. That led to 5-6 months or of socializing . Then the comfort of A/C drew them inside...so we  now have the occasional "high neighbor" ....that's it!
> 
> I know of folks right here where I live that have said, hell, I didn't even know that so & so / this & or that family had moved.
> 
> ...




How true, rgp.

I think I need to go find Walton's mountain and move in with The Walton's family.......friendly, down-to-earth country people, live in the beautiful mountains, small town, know your neighbors & everyone in town, never be lonely livings with all the siblings, grandparents, where people genuinely cared about one another, A/C, no electronics......ok, where is this mountain again?


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## WhatInThe (Jun 9, 2018)

The number of suicides of veterans is through the roof and is more frustrating than these celebrity deaths. Not only have they been to hell and back they don't have the financial resources to get help and improve their condition. These celebrities do. Their passing is sad but should not take the spotlight away from veterans in trouble and/or committing suicide.


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 9, 2018)

It's odd that I see suicide as a tragic end to other peoples lives and a perfectly acceptable end to mine.

I'm very much in favor of assisted suicide for the old and infirm but it is so very sad to see a young person commit suicide over a relatively trivial issue that could easily be resolved by the adults around them.


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## Sunny (Jun 9, 2018)

_
It is the baby boomer group where we see the highest rates of suicide,”  said the C.D.C.’s deputy director, Ileana Arias. 

_The Baby Boomer aspect of this may be the most important part. There are so many baby boomers compared to the rest of the population that anything they do has an enormous impact on the
statistics.


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## Shalimar (Jun 9, 2018)

So often we are in the dark about other people’s pain. Not everyone telegraphs their anguish, some are able to don an amiable mask which fools everyone. I lost a dear friend under such circumstances. For years, I asked myself if I missed the signs, could I perhaps have helped them? Finally, I accepted that their ability to disguise their emotions was better than my ability to sense 

them. In Canada, the group most at risk is not the baby boomer generation, but 17 to 24 year olds. Some are reacting to trauma, others relationship issues, still others mental illness, frequently  undiagnosed. Many self medicate with alcohol and other drugs, which only serves to exacerbate the problem.


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## rgp (Jun 9, 2018)

WhatInThe said:


> The number of suicides of veterans is through the roof and is more frustrating than these celebrity deaths. Not only have they been to hell and back they don't have the financial resources to get help and improve their condition. These celebrities do. Their passing is sad but should not take the spotlight away from veterans in trouble and/or committing suicide.



I was thinking something similar...perhaps a bit more harsh?

But my compassion just isn't 'up-there' for celebs, near what it is for vets, and even regular folk. It comes much slower & at a lower level for those that have everything ....and still can't cope. And they have the means to seek the best of help, doctor, resort/spa , & so-on.

Vets & most others may not,likely not. As such many are truly at the dead end of a dark situation to which they find no other relief.

Hell in the case of Bourdain for example....One phone call & Ol' Dr Phil himself would have come a runnin' {WE} don't even have his number.


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## rgp (Jun 9, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> It's odd that I see suicide as a tragic end to other peoples lives and a perfectly acceptable end to mine.
> 
> I'm very much in favor of assisted suicide for the old and infirm but it is so very sad to see a young person commit suicide over a relatively trivial issue that could easily be resolved by the adults around them.




 Agree completely.......

 As for...."It's odd that I see suicide as a tragic end to other peoples lives and a perfectly acceptable end to mine."

 I think the difference is?...in most cases sensible compassionate people want to help. So we wonder could someone, perhaps even myself have helped this person?

 But , again sensible / rational people may think things through completely for themselves . And still arrive at that same decision for their situation?....just a thought.


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## RadishRose (Jun 9, 2018)




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## rgp (Jun 9, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> View attachment 52988




Not to make light of a tragic issue but ........odd that Nevada , the land of casinos & whore houses is the only one with a decrease .......hummmm.


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## CindyLouWho (Jun 9, 2018)

rgp said:


> Not to make light of a tragic issue but ........odd that Nevada , the land of casinos & whore houses is the only one with a decrease .......hummmm.



Maybe because they hide their feelings & pain in gambling, sex & other vices......so as to not deal with reality.


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## Shalimar (Jun 9, 2018)

CindyLouWho said:


> Maybe because they hide their feelings & pain in gambling, sex & other vices......so as to not deal with reality.


Excellent point.


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## rgp (Jun 9, 2018)

CindyLouWho said:


> Maybe because they hide their feelings & pain in gambling, sex & other vices......so as to not deal with reality.




Ahhhhhh Ya took all the fun outta that ...But, on the serious side, ya might just be on to something.

I actually stopped in one of the 'ranches' years ago. I went in , had the $10.00 coke at the bar..& just 'girl-watched' ....didn't really want alcohol , mid afternoon riding a motorcycle in the desert heat. I'm no prude but just not the place for me.

Never was a gambler...so the casino's hold no lure for me either.

And just in case you [guys] are wondering?....Yes the girls were pretty....have to say , I was sort of surprised.


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## Shalimar (Jun 9, 2018)

Mental illness can be insidious, particularly chronic depression. Meds don’t work for everyone, and sometimes,  in spite of all the self discipline in the world, the disease wins. Perhaps under those circumstances, it is amazing the person lasted as long as they did.


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## Butterfly (Jun 9, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> It's odd that I see suicide as a tragic end to other peoples lives and a perfectly acceptable end to mine.
> 
> I'm very much in favor of assisted suicide for the old and infirm but it is so very sad to see a young person commit suicide over a relatively trivial issue that could easily be resolved by the adults around them.



I agree with you, Aunt Bea.  I see a huge difference between those who choose ending their own lives as an alternative to a horrific death from a disease and those who, seemingly of sound mind and body just up and take their own lives. 

I am not even sure, in one way, that I even see those who end their lives because of a disease as even suicides, because if you are suffering from a terminal disease your approaching death is already a fact and you have just chosen your own way out of further suffering.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 10, 2018)

Someone close to me committed suicide many years ago or so it seemed.  We haven't been totally sure that it wasn't accidental.  Anyways the effects on those that love the one who commited suicide are often devastating.  Someone who didn't even know her convinced me that it was suicide for sure and I really suffered for a long time.  Now I realize that it may  have been accidental but that still hurts-an accidental suicide.


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## billt (Jun 10, 2018)

I think you can draw a parallel line between the increased use of anti depressants in this country, and increased suicide rates. Emotional "fixes" rarely, if ever, come out of a bottle.


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## fmdog44 (Jun 10, 2018)

The American suicide rate is up 25% since 1999. Several years ago I had a mental flash lasting about three seconds. I came face-to-face with terror. That is the only way I can define it. It was more than evil and more than the devil. I have never had it happen since but if that was a form of depression then then I understand and accept suicide.


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## Shalimar (Jun 10, 2018)

billt said:


> I think you can draw a parallel line between the increased use of anti depressants in this country, and increased suicide rates. Emotional "fixes" rarely, if ever, come out of a bottle.



I respectfully disagree. Biochemical depression is not situational, nor is it  temporary emotional distress.. It is neurologically based, and tends to run in families. Even with medication, most sufferers experience lifelong recurrences of this debilitating 

disease. That said, I do believe that there are people whom the medical professionals stick on long term  antidepressants who would be better served by counseling and major life changes. One treatment does not fit all. Many doctors lack the training to discern the difference  between biochemical and situational depression. Statistics indicate that far more individuals suicide  as a 

result of alcohol exacerbated  despair than the effects of antidepressants. It  would also be interesting to know how much 9/11 and it’s aftermath may have affected the mindset of the American people.


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## billt (Jun 10, 2018)

https://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j3697/rr-4

*"Antidepressants increase the risk of suicide, violence and homicide at all ages"*


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## Linda W. (Jun 18, 2018)

It's when people who find their life unbearable don't feel like they can reach out to get help that they consider suicide. My son-in-law's 19-year-old son (from his first marriage) took his life last year. I don't know for sure what would have worked as far as his case. But I believe that it might have certainly helped if everyone involved in his life had made it clear that it's okay to talk about feelings of failure and shame. For example, if a kid who always did well in school starts making substandard grade, reach out with love and caring. Not anger, not judgement, just love. Say that if you aren't making good grades now, it can be handled, because we're all going to find out what's wrong and help you. You just need to talk to us. Then if necessary, get the person counseling if the level of his/her depression requires it. The antidepressants...blaming them doesn't work. That's like saying just don't be depressed. That never worked in my life. Twice in my life I got the treatment I needed and yes, antidepressants and counseling helped me to get through it. Because the problems were very serious in those two times of my life. Other times, I was able to work things out myself and slowly get better with just the help of my true friends.


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## 911 (Jun 20, 2018)

At one time, I had read that the state with the most suicides was Washington state. That was blamed on their dismal weather. I also read that the occupation with the most suicides was dentists. Obviously, it hasn't affected my dentist yet. 

I investigated a few suicides over my career. The strangest one was by a man who left a letter, not a note that the reason he was committing suicide was because he was gay and couldn't stand not being able to expose it to anyone. This was back in the late 70's before coming out was popular as it is today. It kind of struck me as being a weird reason to kill oneself, until I gave it some real thought and then I guess I kind of understood his reasoning, but not agreeing with it. He was a lawyer with a very good law practice. Very successful, to say the least.


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## Butterfly (Jun 20, 2018)

I do not believe that antidepressants cause suicides -- if anything, I believe they may prevent many of them.


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## Shalimar (Jun 20, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> I do not believe that antidepressants cause suicides -- if anything, I believe they may prevent many of them.


Any drug has side effects, even aspirin. For clinically depressed people, despair is the killer. Not all antidepressants agree with each individual. After trial and error, Paxil was the one for me. Without it, I would have died.


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## Shalimar (Jun 20, 2018)

Linda W. said:


> It's when people who find their life unbearable don't feel like they can reach out to get help that they consider suicide. My son-in-law's 19-year-old son (from his first marriage) took his life last year. I don't know for sure what would have worked as far as his case. But I believe that it might have certainly helped if everyone involved in his life had made it clear that it's okay to talk about feelings of failure and shame. For example, if a kid who always did well in school starts making substandard grade, reach out with love and caring. Not anger, not judgement, just love. Say that if you aren't making good grades now, it can be handled, because we're all going to find out what's wrong and help you. You just need to talk to us. Then if necessary, get the person counseling if the level of his/her depression requires it. The antidepressants...blaming them doesn't work. That's like saying just don't be depressed. That never worked in my life. Twice in my life I got the treatment I needed and yes, antidepressants and counseling helped me to get through it. Because the problems were very serious in those two times of my life. Other times, I was able to work things out myself and slowly get better with just the help of my true friends.


Wise wise words.


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## Sassycakes (Jun 20, 2018)

About 10yrs ago my cousin who was only 40yrs old committed suicide. The family was shocked because she had so much going for her. First of all she was beautiful, had her own very successful  business .and was very well liked. The only problem she had was she found out her husband had been cheating on her which is devastating. After they were separated for a year he told her he wanted a divorce. Unfortunately she had become involved with a Scientologist. He told her that if she committed suicide she would come back to a better life. The day before she took her life she emptied her safety deposit box and gave him $50.000. The house was set up with everything facing the door. She had on a beautiful negligee and she Hung herself. According to the coroner someone had to be there with her to help her. Her neighbors saw the scientologists car outside her house the day she did it. It was truly heartbreaking for our entire family. What sticks in my mind was she was buried on Valentine's day and her husband brought her flowers to the funeral . Knowing my cousin I thought to myself that at least she got flowers from the man she loved on Valentines Day. It still breaks my heart when I think of her.


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## fmdog44 (Jun 20, 2018)

One reason is we live in an instant gratification world. We also have those that seek help on social media where nuts and loonies hang out.


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## rgp (Jun 20, 2018)

Sassycakes said:


> About 10yrs ago my cousin who was only 40yrs old committed suicide. The family was shocked because she had so much going for her. First of all she was beautiful, had her own very successful  business .and was very well liked. The only problem she had was she found out her husband had been cheating on her which is devastating. After they were separated for a year he told her he wanted a divorce. Unfortunately she had become involved with a Scientologist. He told her that if she committed suicide she would come back to a better life. The day before she took her life she emptied her safety deposit box and gave him $50.000. The house was set up with everything facing the door. She had on a beautiful negligee and she Hung herself. According to the coroner someone had to be there with her to help her. Her neighbors saw the scientologists car outside her house the day she did it. It was truly heartbreaking for our entire family. What sticks in my mind was she was buried on Valentine's day and her husband brought her flowers to the funeral . Knowing my cousin I thought to myself that at least she got flowers from the man she loved on Valentines Day. It still breaks my heart when I think of her.




Did the police _not_ investigate it as a homicide ?


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## Shalimar (Jun 20, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> One reason is we live in an instant gratification world. We also have those that seek help on social media where nuts and loonies hang out.


And psychologists. Loll.


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## Sassycakes (Jun 22, 2018)

rgp said:


> Did the police _not_ investigate it as a homicide ?



No they didn't. Her husband had connections in the Police Department and he told them she had mental conditions, so they never looked into the case.


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## gumbud (Jun 22, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> The American suicide rate is up 25% since 1999. Several years ago I had a mental flash lasting about three seconds. I came face-to-face with terror. That is the only way I can define it. It was more than evil and more than the devil. I have never had it happen since but if that was a form of depression then then I understand and accept suicide.



very interesting post fmdog44 -  strong christians who believe in the protection of Christ would say that they are protected from all evil sources who may attack their mentality as you have described in your 'mental flash' The Screwtape Letters by D.S Lewis are an interesting read of how we may be manipulated and perhaps tempted to suicide. But here I am wandering into the spiritual that some may not consider sane! There are of course many other christian tomes that talk of this topic 'suicide' and recommend the "cloak of Christ" as a protection. If one considers that there is "good and evil" in this world and this has clearly been portrayed by the christian psychiatrist Dr M.Scott Peck in his book "People of the Lie" 

https://inthelimelight.net/some-people-are-evil-thoughts-on-m-scott-pecks-people-of-the-lie/

then perhaps we may all be tempted to evilness both to others and ourselves - the ultimate being suicide?

and as a postscript - the greatest evil I recall is Hitler and the destruction he caused to the Jews and his own peoples and what did he do in the end - " committed suicide of course!


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## Olivia (Jun 22, 2018)

Interesting, gumbud, because yesterday when I was feeling rather down, something came over me and I saw myself as a young child and I felt the strength of that young person that I was born as, and it just filled me with so much love, hope and joy that I cried tears for some time with the realization of who I really was. The only thing that bothers me about C.S. Lewis is that he says that only believers in Christ can be saved. I just can't go with that. Otherwise, he is an inspiration to me. Now you've got me interested in reading Peck's "People of the Lie". I've heard of it already many years ago, but never did get into it. 

Hitler in the end was a weasley coward and always was except when he thought it would make him look good and build up his ego with praise from others. A very little, little man.


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## gumbud (Jun 22, 2018)

try Neale Donald Walsch and is books on 'conversations with God' - I think in the first book when he is conversing with God it was said "even Hitler went to heaven" Perhaps we all need a focus in our lives and you just then Olivia you described a 'focus' that came over you. 

Christianity 'that is the new testament' not particularly the old gives us the ability to focus which humans often lose sight of. I think there are many young people; middle aged and older who have lost a focus and so wander aimlessly through life looking for the meaning of. But for me the greatest thing about Christ and his 'teachings' is the emphasis on 'compassion' for others from the 'good samaritan' story to his sacrifice on the cross. 

Compassion for me is the main theme. It's the ability to not only 'feel' compassion for others but to put it into action of some kind - whether helping the lonely ones in your community - or working at the local Salvation Army shelter - whatever - it's the ability to stop only thinking about ourselves and reach out to others. You can have compassion of course without Christ - but he is a focal point - the Buddhists also major on compassion - helping our travelling companions when needed but not over-helping! and I am sure the other major religions have similar themes. 

where is heaven and who runs it is a puzzle none of us really know but some claim to! My motto in life " be kind and helpful and offer to help from time to time and push away selfishness" that was after all the 'Christ story' My kind of religion is 'welcoming all' not 'being exclusive'.

ps: now you've got me started - there is a great movement started in the UK where people join a local 'helping club' and are sent out to help the elderly and the lonely with all aspects of their lives where necessary - can't remember the name right now - but it has reduced the number of visits to "GP's and emergency units because often people just went their with minor ailments and the main one was loneliness!


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## Olivia (Jun 22, 2018)

Gumbud, you get me, which is a breath of fresh air. Half my family are Shin Buddhists. And I love reading Thich Nhat Hanh.

I'm interested in reading his book "Living Budddha, Living Christ: 20 Anniversary Edition".


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## Keesha (Jun 22, 2018)

I have “a conversion with God” in an old series of tapes which I very much like by Neale Donald Walsch. 
Great post Gumbud!!!


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## gumbud (Jun 22, 2018)

well although not a fully fledged buddhist ; I practiced their mindful meditation weekly for a number of years at a temple here in OZ. MY Dil is thai and a practicing buddhist and used to come with me each week to the local temple. read a lot of their stuff from their own library and I think their concept of Nirvana is another way of saying ' we're not sure where God or heaven is"!


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## gumbud (Jun 22, 2018)

yes he is a very challenging character - his story of his 'conversion' is an amazing one - must start reading him again as I have half a dozen of his tomes - seem to have lost the practice of mindful reading these days!!


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## Shalimar (Jun 22, 2018)

I have practiced meditation twice daily since I was twenty years old. Without it I would have died young. Helps me pacify all those dragons which I keep in boxes.


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## Keesha (Jun 22, 2018)

gumbud said:


> well although not a fully fledged buddhist ; I practiced their mindful meditation weekly for a number of years at a temple here in OZ. MY Dil is thai and a practicing buddhist and used to come with me each week to the local temple. read a lot of their stuff from their own library and I think their concept of Nirvana is another way of saying ' we're not sure where God or heaven is"!



This is nice. Buddhism is probably the closest religion I relate to. I also used to meditate a lot but unfortunately got out of the habit. I’d very much like to get back into it. Maybe you could start a thread about it for some of us to follow. That would be very cool!
I did not realize that that was the meaning of Nirvana. I like religion that admit to ‘not knowing.’ In my mind, there is far more we don’t know than we do.


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## Shalimar (Jun 22, 2018)

Kindness is my religion. I strongly believe in the chain of helping hands, figuratively or otherwise. Love is a verb, and a choice. It is the only thing that has ever made sense of the things I endured while young. Even broken healers have a place. For some of my suicidal clients, the fact that I have survived gives them hope. We stand witness for each other. I am humbled by their presence, and their trust.


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## gumbud (Jun 22, 2018)

that's the way Shalimar - the buddhists say that we suffer from "the chattering of the monkeys in our heads" and that meditation calms them down!!


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## gumbud (Jun 23, 2018)

> _ we're not sure where God or heaven is"!_


 well that was MY take on it!! well I could certainly do my take on doing what I learned which I think was theravada type buddhism - thai style - it's a very easy one in one way - but alas as why all know it is also very difficult because of our chattering monkey - and 'busy' lives! my wife complains if I am not doing something all the time - like cleaning the house ; gardening ; re-painting ; rat catching etc - but I keep busy in my own relaxed way often sitting in front of the pc talking to people - I can live in organized chaos and some dust about the place! We don't need to be and shouldn't be busy all day - right??


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## gumbud (Jun 23, 2018)

it would be cool if you could give us some quotes from it! sort of signposts along the way!


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## Shalimar (Jun 23, 2018)

gumbud said:


> well that was MY take on it!! well I could certainly do my take on doing what I learned which I think was theravada type buddhism - thai style - it's a very easy one in one way - but alas as why all know it is also very difficult because of our chattering monkey - and 'busy' lives! my wife complains if I am not doing something all the time - like cleaning the house ; gardening ; re-painting ; rat catching etc - but I keep busy in my own relaxed way often sitting in front of the pc talking to people - I can live in organized chaos and some dust about the place! We don't need to be and shouldn't be busy all day - right??


I have a busy career, need time every day to listen to the silence.


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