# Dr. Oz - Entertainer or Scientists, what do you think?



## Cookie (Apr 23, 2015)

Do you watch Dr. Oz?  Do you follow his recommendations or do you think he's a quack?

Want to read the article in New Yorker today?

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/columbia-and-the-problem-of-dr-oz

Sorry the article was blocked:  Here it is if anyone wants to read it.

Ehmet Oz,  the heart surgeon whose syndicated television program, “The Dr. Oz  Show,” is seen each day by millions of devoted viewers, is arguably the  most influential physician in America. For those who have spent time  with him, or who watch the show, his popularity isn’t hard to  understand: Oz is an eloquent, compassionate, and telegenic  representative of a profession whose members often lack those  attributes. 

Oz also has political skills—you  don’t earn the nickname “America’s doctor” without them—as he will  undoubtedly demonstrate on his show Thursday afternoon, when he  addresses a harsh letter seeking his dismissal  from his post as vice-chairman of the department of surgery at Columbia  University’s College of Physicians and Surgeons. Last week, a group of  ten prominent physicians wrote to the school’s Dean of the Faculties of  Health Sciences and Medicine, saying that Oz “has repeatedly shown  disdain for science and for evidence-based medicine.” The letter went on  to say that by touting unproven remedies for serious ailments, he had  “misled and endangered” the public.


  Those assertions are frequently confirmed in Oz’s television appearances. Last December, the _BMJ_ (formerly the _British Medical Journal_) published a study demonstrating  that half of Oz’s recommendations either lacked scientific support or  were completely contradicted by publicly available data. When Missouri  Senator Claire McCaskill, during a Senate hearing on weight-loss pills,  asked him about these issues, Oz responded by saying, “I recognize  that oftentimes they don’t have the scientific muster to present as  fact.” But he continues to act as if he doesn’t care.


 Last year, Larry King asked Oz to comment on a Profile I had written about him for this magazine in 2013.  Oz said that it was “a thoughtful piece” but that he knew I had a  “bias,” which he described as believing that “you need to have very  solid scientific data before you say anything.” Oz has no such bias,  even though his promotion of a product can affect the lives of people  throughout the country. He routinely recommends “miracle” cures for a  variety of ailments ranging from obesity to Alzheimer’s disease. Oz has,  for example, promoted garcinia cambogia, African mango seed, and  green-coffee-bean extract as weight-loss marvels, even though there is  no good data to support health claims for any of them.


 “You  may think that magic is make-believe,” Oz said at the beginning of one  typical show. “But this little bean has scientists saying they have  found a magic weight-loss cure for every body type. It’s green coffee  beans, and, when turned into a supplement, this miracle pill can burn  fat fast. This is very exciting. And it’s breaking news.” After Oz  discussed green coffee beans on his show, several companies sold tens of  millions of dollars worth of the supplement. This phenomenon has become  known as the “Oz effect.” The Federal Trade Commission subsequently sued the companies for false and deceptive advertising. In January, the man behind two of the companies agreed to pay back customers nine million dollars.


 Columbia  has responded to the letter calling for Oz’s dismissal by saying that  the university “is committed to the principle of academic freedom and to  upholding faculty members’ freedom of expression for statements they  make in public discussion.” That’s admirable: free speech must be  defended vigorously. But to invoke those principles in order to protect  the right of one of America’s most powerful doctors to mislead millions  of people seems a bit excessive. Oz has already indicated that, on his  show Thursday, he will pick apart the qualifications and professional  interests of the people who signed the letter. Many have ties to  industries and technological innovations, such as genetically modified  organisms, that he has long disdained. Fair enough. But changing the  subject still won’t change the facts. I have spoken to many of Oz’s  colleagues, at Columbia and elsewhere, who feel queasy about Oz  remaining a prominent member of the school’s administration.
 Many  people argue that Oz should be treated more like a Kardashian than like  a cardiothoracic surgeon. After all, he’s a television star and his  conduct is, unfortunately, common. There have always been hucksters  selling false hope to desperate people. It’s an American tradition. But  Oz is different precisely because he is so smart, well trained, and  influential. How are we to react, then, when he offers his show as a  platform for Theresa Caputo, a medium who says she can link us with the dead, or Jeffrey Smith, a former yoga instructor whom Oz considers an expert on genetically modified products?


 Oz  believes that Western medicine is reductive and that it too often  focusses on illness instead of health, with ruinous results. That is  hard to dispute. Oz gets it. These days doctors spend less and less time  with their patients, but he argues for a deeper connection. (And many  studies have shown that people who spend more time with their doctors  and nurses have better outcomes.) I do not believe Oz is motivated by  money. He was rich before he got his show. I don’t think he is a fraud  or a liar, either. But that leaves him somewhere between a cult leader  and a talk-show host.

The  currency that I deal in is trust,” he told me when I interviewed him in  2013, “and it is trust that has been given to me by Oprah, and by  Columbia University, and by an audience that has watched over six  hundred shows.”


Oz refers to Oprah as his mentor,  and for good reason: they both are smooth, intelligent, delightful. But  Oprah is an entertainer, not a scientist. And at this point, despite  his training, his skills, and his many medical accomplishments, so is  Oz.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 23, 2015)

No I don't watch him..   What I think he is... is someone who likes lots of money.


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## hollydolly (Apr 23, 2015)

Never heard of him Cookie so unfortunately  I can't give an opinion.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 23, 2015)

Holly, he's a con artist on American tv.  Only saw him once and knew when he was promoting his miracle fat burning raspberry tea that he was a quack.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 23, 2015)

The sad part is that he IS an actual surgeon.   One who sold out his principles for cash.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 23, 2015)

I believe that as a doctor he was very good but he sold out.  He's being dumped by Columbia University I believe.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 23, 2015)

He's making a lot more money now than he ever could as a doc.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 23, 2015)

I'm sure he is.  All these companies pushing miracle weight loss products have millions of suckers who want to believe it.


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## Josiah (Apr 23, 2015)

I'm just delighted to see his reputation besmirched.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 23, 2015)

Oz is a Oprah protege and snake oil salesman.  He has lost his position with Columbia.  BTW a girl died in the UK from one of those "miracle" weight loss supplements days ago.  It sped up her metabolism so fast she died with a core temp of 110 degrees f.  They tried to lower the internal fire but lost her in surgery.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 23, 2015)

Josiah said:


> I'm just delighted to see his reputation besmirched.



"Ride tall, long fall".


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2015)

My late wife listened to him; I thought he was very annoying. 

In January I was sitting in my doctors waiting room and of course had no control over the TV, so I was forced to listen to Dr. Oz. It was then that I realized why he is so annoying to me...he talks down to his audience. In days of yore he would be selling snake oil out of the back of a wagon.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 23, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Oz is a Oprah protege and snake oil salesman.  He has lost his position with Columbia.  BTW a girl died in the UK from one of those "miracle" weight loss supplements days ago.  It sped up her metabolism so fast she died with a core temp of 110 degrees f.  They tried to lower the internal fire but lost her in surgery.



I heard about the girl that died from taking weight loss pills she bought online. Didn't know they were some he promoted.  It contained pesticides.


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## applecruncher (Apr 23, 2015)

I watch Dr. Oz sometimes. I don't have a problem with him. (Is he supposed to donate his time and services for nothing??) No, Columbia did not drop him, and his critics all have so many skeletons and agendas it's pathetic (at least one served prison time).


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## AZ Jim (Apr 23, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I heard about the girl that died from taking weight loss pills she bought online. Didn't know they were some he promoted.  It contained pesticides.



No, he didn't promote it that I know of.  I was just commenting about "miracle" products in general.


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## AprilSun (Apr 23, 2015)

I watched him one time out of curiosity and had my doubts then. That was the first and last time because I still feel that way.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 23, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> I watch Dr. Oz sometimes. I don't have a problem with him. (Is he supposed to donate his time and services for nothing??) No, Columbia did not drop him, and his critics all have so many skeletons and agendas it's pathetic (at least one served prison time).



I stand corrected as to his being removed.  His removal has been requested.  As to the "skeletons" I know less about that than you apparently.  I maintain he is a snake oil salesman.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 23, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> I watch Dr. Oz sometimes. I don't have a problem with him. (Is he supposed to donate his time and services for nothing??) No, Columbia did not drop him, and his critics all have so many skeletons and agendas it's pathetic (at least one served prison time).



He promotes 'miracle' weight loss products.  No such thing. He is conning people for $$$.


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## Cookie (Apr 23, 2015)

I'm not a fan, nor do I follow all his suggestions or have ever bought the products, although some of his advice is just general healthy lifestyle information that's been around for decades.  Apparently the article in New Yorker states that his motivation isn't money, because he was already very rich to begin with. It's no skin off my nose that he does this and I don't think he's necessarily a quack, because there are things he says that make a lot of sense, e.g. what he says about corn syrup and white flour, as seen in the video. But people who are very mainstream may not agree.


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## applecruncher (Apr 23, 2015)

Does anyone have any specific reason why you don't like him (other than he has medical degrees, is a surgeaon, has a TV show, knows Oprah, and and is wealthy)?  Anything at all? Also, can you give some information about the snake oil salesman comparison? And exactly how did he sell out? Do tell.

btw to answer the thread, I don't consider him an entertainer or a scientist. He's an MD - a cardiothoracic surgeon.  Anyone have evidence that he's not?

Make no mistake - I agree you're entitled to dislike/hate whoever you want. I'm just asking you to say why.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2...st-dr-oz-threatens-to-backfire-spectacularly/

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat..._gilbert_ross_history_includes_jail_time.html


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## Shalimar (Apr 23, 2015)

I find Oz annoying , his manner condescending. He seems never to have been converted to doubt. I am wary of any and all who seem to promote a paint by number, one size fits all approach. Life ain't that simple IMHO.


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## Davey Jones (Apr 23, 2015)

Anybody with the name OZ should know Dorothy.


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## Shalimar (Apr 23, 2015)

Davey, that is funny! Lol.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 23, 2015)

Good one Davey!


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## hollydolly (Apr 23, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> Anybody with the name OZ should know Dorothy.



But he ain't in Kansas no more Toto...sounds like he's found himself in the promised land of  Oprah


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## hollydolly (Apr 23, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Holly, he's a con artist on American tv.  Only saw him once and knew when he was promoting his miracle fat burning raspberry tea that he was a quack.



yep that would do it for me too..


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## applecruncher (Apr 23, 2015)

Holly earlier you said you've never heard of him and don't have an opinion. Did you change your mind based on several vague insinuations of others?


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## hollydolly (Apr 23, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> Holly earlier you said you've never heard of him and don't have an opinion.  Did you changed your mind based on several extremely vague insinuations and the opinions of others?



Not at all AC I still don't have a personal opinion of the man, my comments were simply agreeing with Ameriscot with regard to anyone who promotes something like Raspberry tea as a Miracle fat burning potion..and the other was after seeing him on Oprah..and replying to Davey's funny comment...just a funny quip nothing more

However, with the all due respect to what seems to be your unflinching support for this man...why don't you explain why you believe (other than he's a surgeon which apparently is not in question) why someone  who is apparently giving out some doubtful medical  advice particularly as a 'trusted MD'' should not be  thought to be at best pulling the wool over people's eyes ? ..


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## Cookie (Apr 23, 2015)

Actually, I am beginning to suspect that some people don't actually know much about Dr. Oz and are going by heresay and what others might think, something known as 'group think'.


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## Josiah (Apr 23, 2015)

"I Was On The Dr. Oz Show. Here's The Problem With The Wizard Behind The Curtain"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-arana/oz-show-quack-controvery-critics_b_7128758.html


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 23, 2015)

I don't have anything against Dr. Oz (or Oprah).  I used to watch his show quite often, as I'm interested in health, natural supplements, nutrition and vitamins.  As with anyone on a TV show, I take everything they say with a grain of salt, considering there are sponsors, etc. that they may be representing. 

 Regardless, he's had some good, entertaining and informative shows, IMO.  I think of him as a reputable heart surgeon, who started a show that people would be interested in relating to everyday health, and he did a good job.  Anyone who relies on everything others recommend, without doing their own homework and research, deserve what they get.

 It didn't take a genius, in my opinion, to know a long, long time ago, well before Dr. Oz, that diet pills were bad news and unhealthy to take.  I never touched them and never will.  Entertainer or scientist, no....capable heart surgeon, yes, from all I've ever heard of him.  I don't love or hate Dr. Oz.


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## Butterfly (Apr 23, 2015)

I think he's a bit of both, but mostly snake oil salesman.


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## Glinda (Apr 23, 2015)

Now boys and girls, I am Glinda.  I've waved my magic wand and I decree that those who like the man who named himself after my queendom, Oz, may continue to like him.  And those who don't, may go their merrie way!  Glinda has spoken!


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## Butterfly (Apr 24, 2015)

Shipper said:


> Best comment to date!



Well, I watched him a few times when I was home sick or somewhere where it was on, and I didn't like his approach with all those weight loss things, among other things.


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## truespock (Apr 24, 2015)

Oz is a total quack / crackpot, and so is Dr. Phil.  At this point, if Oprah says 'good morning', you'd better check your watch!


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 24, 2015)

I prefer House...


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## Shalimar (Apr 24, 2015)

I agree with truespock, also prefer House, reminds me of Ralphy....


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## Bullie76 (Apr 24, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> No I don't watch him..   What I think he is... is someone who likes lots of money.



Ditto. I don't watch tv lawyers/judges either.


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## Debby (Apr 24, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> No I don't watch him..   What I think he is... is someone who likes lots of money.




So do we all.


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## Shalimar (Apr 24, 2015)

We should be careful, this thread has been sanitized once.


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## applecruncher (Apr 24, 2015)

Shipper said:


> Best comment to date!



Definitely.


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## Debby (Apr 24, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Holly, he's a con artist on American tv.  Only saw him once and knew when he was promoting his miracle fat burning raspberry tea that he was a quack.




I don't agree on your assessment Ameriscot.  I think he's a well trained doctor who is willing to look at even the alternate ideas and 'judge' them which as we all know, our regular doctors refuse to open their minds to all too often.  Thirty years ago, my family doctor refused to consider deep muscle massage as a therapy for chronic back pain and today, when I get some of my major and long lasting muscle spasms that are eased and helped to heal by massage, I think of him and his ignorance.  And how many of us rely on 'home remedies'?  I recall much discussion on taking turmeric here, the effects various people experienced with it and yet your doctor is more inclined to prescribe pharmaceuticals than a 'dish of a good curry' every day.  I think medicine is in part an evolving science/art and is missing out on the efficacy of some ancient remedies because of a professional snobbery.

He also brings to the attention of average Americans and Canadians, the dangers of some substances.  Like right now I'm watching his rebuttal to that attack letter, which by the way was orchestrated by 'doctors' who shill for GMO companies like Monsanto, Big Tobacco and the pharmaceutical industry.   On the program he's talking about the dangers of some new synthetic drug on the streets, called Flakka.  And I've seen him do this regularly.   He's even had the developer of that new GMO 'Arctic Apple' on the program to talk about his product as well as a guy who was talking about why he thinks GMO's are not good for you.  Both sides of the story and that's gotta be a good thing right?  And at the end, he said, "everyone can decide for themselves if they want to eat GMO's but we all deserve the right to know if that's what's in our foods" and he promotes labelling (which the GMO companies are horrified by, hence the letter).

And we all accept that foods have different effects on the body's metabolism.  Eat a turkey sandwich and you want to snooze.  Eat a pile of white flour pasta and you're good for a bit and then you crash as your body floods with insulin to counteract the load of starch which turns into sugars, that you just ate.   Without having seen the episode that your talking about, I can't really comment on what he says is an effect of that raspberry tea regarding fat burning, but I'd counter with coffee being a pick-me up and too much can make you tense and edgy, so why not a tea that impacts your metabolism, i.e. speeds it up a bit and encourages the fat burning process?

Like everything else, you have to look at who started the controversy and take note of who pays them.  Several of them have worked directly (as paid experts) for those food and pharma companies who are impacted by what Oz says.  They despise his encouragement to be involved with your own health right from the basics, i.e. food, exercise, supplements, etc and including understanding how disease effects us because it has the potential to impact their business plan and bottom line.  Like everything else, follow the money.


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## Debby (Apr 24, 2015)

Josiah said:


> "I Was On The Dr. Oz Show. Here's The Problem With The Wizard Behind The Curtain"
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-arana/oz-show-quack-controvery-critics_b_7128758.html





With all due respect Josiah, the article in HuffPost starts off sounding like some whiny guy who was PO'd because he didn't get to keep a dressing room, to finish as though written by the same shills who work as paid experts for GMO companies, the tobacco industry, etc., and are trying to smear his reputation. 

I do watch the show periodically and the only thing that I could complain about is how he brings audience members up to participate in his 'show and tell' aspects of the program.  But probably the only reason I hate that is because I'd hate it if I got picked .  I think he presents BOTH sides of any question (freedom of speech and a respectful attitude even when someone is wrong , which apparently the author of that article resents),  gives his perspective (yay or nay),  and then it's up to you to decide.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 24, 2015)

Debby said:


> I don't agree on your assessment Ameriscot.  I think he's a well trained doctor who is willing to look at even the alternate ideas and 'judge' them which as we all know, our regular doctors refuse to open their minds to all too often.  Thirty years ago, my family doctor refused to consider deep muscle massage as a therapy for chronic back pain and today, when I get some of my major and long lasting muscle spasms that are eased and helped to heal by massage, I think of him and his ignorance.  And how many of us rely on 'home remedies'?  I recall much discussion on taking turmeric here, the effects various people experienced with it and yet your doctor is more inclined to prescribe pharmaceuticals than a 'dish of a good curry' every day.  I think medicine is in part an evolving science/art and is missing out on the efficacy of some ancient remedies because of a professional snobbery.
> 
> He also brings to the attention of average Americans and Canadians, the dangers of some substances.  Like right now I'm watching his rebuttal to that attack letter, which by the way was orchestrated by 'doctors' who shill for GMO companies like Monsanto, Big Tobacco and the pharmaceutical industry.   On the program he's talking about the dangers of some new synthetic drug on the streets, called Flakka.  And I've seen him do this regularly.   He's even had the developer of that new GMO 'Arctic Apple' on the program to talk about his product as well as a guy who was talking about why he thinks GMO's are not good for you.  Both sides of the story and that's gotta be a good thing right?  And at the end, he said, "everyone can decide for themselves if they want to eat GMO's but we all deserve the right to know if that's what's in our foods" and he promotes labelling (which the GMO companies are horrified by, hence the letter).
> 
> ...



Obviously this programme is not shown in the UK.  I saw it at my sister's house in Michigan.  She kept telling me Dr. Oz says this or that, so I watched it with her one day.  As soon as he began touting this miracle fat burning tea, that was it for me.  I would never trust anything he said after that.  I'd always wonder who was paying him to praise or criticise something. I'm sure he's an excellent surgeon or he wouldn't be on the faculty (?) of Columbia, but I'll never listen to him again.

I can find out what I want to know about health, research, exercise, diet, etc by googling reputable sources - not blogs which can be written by anybody.  And not Wikipedia.


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## Jackie22 (Apr 24, 2015)

I think Dr Oz had more credibility when he first started, but has drifted away......I can't respect anyone that endorses 'fat burning' miracles.


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## Shalimar (Apr 24, 2015)

I agree, Jackie.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 24, 2015)

I haven't heard any of his fans here defending his 'miracle fat burning' products.  Do you actually believe this kind of stuff works?!


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## Shalimar (Apr 24, 2015)

Annie, this thread got sanitized last night, perhaps people are cautious of it happening again. I know I  am.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 24, 2015)

Right.  I looked through it and can't figure out what posts are missing.  Oh well.  I've said all I've got to say about it.


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## Cookie (Apr 24, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I haven't heard any of his fans here defending his 'miracle fat burning' products.  Do you actually believe this kind of stuff works?!



Anny, he is not ONLY about fat burning products, it's not so flat and one-dimensional.  How do you explain why so many people are watching him. It would be good if you yourself had some some actual facts and information to offer. Do you? I'm neither defending nor advocating him, I like to be objective.... in fact I think much of what he recommends in the way of healthy diet you might already be doing.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 24, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Anny, he is not ONLY about fat burning products, it's not so flat and one-dimensional.  How do you explain why so many people are watching him. It would be good if you yourself had some some actual facts and information to offer. Do you? I'm neither defending nor advocating him, I like to be objective.... in fact I think much of what he recommends in the way of healthy diet you might already be doing.



How does anyone understand why so many people watch the Kardasians, how many want to marry notorious mass killers, how many go out of their way to see vehicle accidents?


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## Shalimar (Apr 24, 2015)

Jim, we gotta be careful or we'll get scrubbed again.lol


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## Cookie (Apr 24, 2015)

Yes, Jim, your opinion matters, but please be careful with your phraseology.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 24, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Jim, we gotta be careful or we'll get scrubbed again.lol



No problem better that than not expressing my opinion.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 24, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Anny, he is not ONLY about fat burning products, it's not so flat and one-dimensional.  How do you explain why so many people are watching him. It would be good if you yourself had some some actual facts and information to offer. Do you? I'm neither defending nor advocating him, I like to be objective.... in fact I think much of what he recommends in the way of healthy diet you might already be doing.



You are missing the point that I and others have made several times.  The fact that he advertises products that he claims are 'fat burning miracle products' puts everything else he says in doubt.  If he will sink that low for $$$  then I have no use for him.  He knows these products don't work and he doesn't care that people who are desperate to lose weight will try anything and he is giving them false hope.


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## applecruncher (Apr 24, 2015)

Cookie you're making the mistake of confusing people with facts and by asking for facts. Some don't want facts and they certainly can't be bothered by doing their own thinking - it's much easier to hold hands and bask in being included at the 8th grade lunch table.


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## Cookie (Apr 24, 2015)

If he puts everything else in doubt, then that would put what you yourself do in the name of health in doubt, because information he advocates are the same as things you already do in the name of health. And I have to repeat here, I'm staying objective - don't swing one way or the other. And I do get the point, I'm just not riding on on the same train of thought.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 24, 2015)

Sheesh....  I never realized some folks found Dr. Oz something to fight about..  But.. perhaps when there is a chance to insult folks... anything will do..


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## Cookie (Apr 24, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> Cookie you're making the mistake of confusing people with facts and by asking for facts. Some don't want facts and they certainly can't be bothered by doing their own thinking - it's much easier to hold hands and bask in being included at the 8th grade lunch table.



True enough, AC -  people have emotional responses to this kind of thing. Reminds me of that movie with Lindsay Lohan.


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## Shalimar (Apr 24, 2015)

I am trying very hard to remember I am a therapist! It is not always easy.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 24, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I am trying very hard to remember I am a therapist! It is not always easy.




Please don't forget that... It appears your services are sorely needed here..


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## Cookie (Apr 24, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I am trying very hard to remember I am a therapist! It is not always easy.



Thanks, so funny!
:lol1:


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## QuickSilver (Apr 24, 2015)

I'm glad I went to bed early last night..


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## Cookie (Apr 24, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I'm glad I went to bed early last night..



Bright eyed and bushy tailed?  Me too. LOL


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 24, 2015)

Debby said:


> I think he's a well trained doctor who is willing to look at even the alternate ideas and 'judge' them which as we all know, our regular doctors refuse to open their minds to all too often.  And how many of us rely on 'home remedies'?  I recall much discussion on taking turmeric here, the effects various people experienced with it and yet your doctor is more inclined to prescribe pharmaceuticals than a 'dish of a good curry' every day.  I think medicine is in part an evolving science/art and is missing out on the efficacy of some ancient remedies because of a professional snobbery.
> 
> He also brings to the attention of average Americans and Canadians, the dangers of some substances.  Like right now I'm watching his rebuttal to that attack letter, which by the way was orchestrated by 'doctors' who shill for GMO companies like Monsanto, Big Tobacco and the pharmaceutical industry.   On the program he's talking about the dangers of some new synthetic drug on the streets, called Flakka.  And I've seen him do this regularly.   He's even had the developer of that new GMO 'Arctic Apple' on the program to talk about his product as well as a guy who was talking about why he thinks GMO's are not good for you.  Both sides of the story and that's gotta be a good thing right?  And at the end, he said, "everyone can decide for themselves if they want to eat GMO's but we all deserve the right to know if that's what's in our foods" and he promotes labelling (which the GMO companies are horrified by, hence the letter).
> 
> ...



Very well said Debby, I agree.  I admit I haven't watched his show for years now, not even sure it's still on in my area.  But he often discussed basic nutrition, exercise, and spices, nuts or oils that benefit the body.  He explained bodily functions and made things clear for the audience, in an amusing way. 

 I'm in my 60s and not on any prescription medications (knock on wood).  I don't like to go to doctors and have taken vitamins and supplements for many years now, and feel healthier for it.  I'm in no way a health freak, I've eaten my share of junk foods in my life and have to be conscious of my weight so it doesn't become a health problem, etc.  I wouldn't blindly follow a doctor on TVs advice without doing my own research on the supplement anyway, that would be insane.

 Anyhoo, I remember listening to him talk about the basics, things that mainstream doctors were not trained in and could/would not touch with their patients for various reasons.  He discussed bad fats and GMO dangers long before the subjects were popular.  He didn't just tell you that you need to take a pill or an insulin shot for your diabetes, he explained what the disease was about, and how you could avoid getting it or reverse it with food and nutrition if you had it. 

 He talked about the benefits of Red Clover Blossom for menopausal symptoms like hot flashes, I researched it and that's all I used to get me through my menopausal period, no hormone therapy for me if I could avoid it.  When I did go in for a check up, I mentioned it to my doctor, and he said to just keep taking it and doing whatever I was doing in the way of supplements, because it seemed to be working for me.  

  As far as I remember, he always cautioned not to do anything, even exercise, without their doctor's approval.  I haven't heard much about these diet pills, but it amazes me that people will disregard all of the good he's done and all of his accomplishments, just to beat him down for weight loss pills. I think people who want to pop a pill for quick weight loss need a reality check anyway, they need a lifestyle change, get active and eat right and the weight will come off. http://www.vox.com/2015/4/16/8412427/dr-oz-health-claims


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## Cookie (Apr 24, 2015)

SeaBreeze and Debbie, you said it all so well, with all the facts -- everything that I have been thinking, but couldn't put into words. 
Thank you.


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## Ron1950 (Apr 24, 2015)

In regard to Dr. Oz' promotion of garcinia cambogia, a diet pill. He had claimed that garcinia cambogia is the safe "Holy Grail" of weight loss that's even good for diabetics but the product is most likely going to contribute to diabetes, and the physiological processes the product accomplishes that are quite well understood - Do Garcinia Cambogia Side Effects Boost Diabetes?




The big problem with Oz is that he's a mix of science and pseudoscience, making it difficult for almost anyone to know what is actually true or not. Unless he performs heart operations, he is almost certainly an entertainer for the most part - but a deceptive one as he makes sure you know he's a doctor, giving the impression he dispenses advice from underneath the scientist label.


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## Debby (Apr 24, 2015)

Everyone is entitled to a personal opinion, but I try to make it a practise that when a person of controversy comes before the public, I check it out before I jump on the bandwagon and tear him a new one.

A few years ago, Dole Fruit Company was spraying pesticides on their workers in the field.  Those workers then sued for myriad health issues and they won.  Then a documentary film maker from Sweden decided to 'just report the facts ma'am' and Dole didn't appreciate having the truth of their bad behaviour made public.  They attempted to keep him from releasing it and that included sending a press release to news organizations across the country and in Europe as well and they slammed him and sought to ruin his reputation.  In a follow up documentary (covering their smear campaign) Mr. Gertten showed how Canada AM got the press release and did absolutely no research but instead smirked and aided in the smear campaign as they referred to the 'lies' he was spreading about Dole.  That was the beginning of my realization that you can't trust mainstream media.  By the way, as Mr. Gertten was busy making his second documentary about the smear campaign, he was also suing Dole in an American court and he won his case and Dole had to pay him.  He should have sued  Canada AM as well as every other news organization that slandered him.

I try not to form opinions about peoples intentions and integrity based on watching one episode.  I also think that if some group with an obvious bias make accusations, it is crucial that we all investigate and seek understanding rather than just adding to the cacophony of insinuations and misinformation.


By the way, if anyone was interested in watching the documentary which I think you can see online, it was called 'Big Boys Gone Banana's'.  Actually very interesting and a real eye opener.


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## Debby (Apr 24, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> .........He talked about the benefits of Red Clover Blossom for menopausal symptoms like hot flashes, I researched it and that's all I used to get me through my menopausal period, no hormone therapy for me if I could avoid it.  When I did go in for a check up, I mentioned it to my doctor, and he said to just keep taking it and doing whatever I was doing in the way of supplements, because it seemed to be working for me.
> 
> As far as I remember, he always cautioned not to do anything, even exercise, without their doctor's approval.  I haven't heard much about these diet pills, but it amazes me that people will disregard all of the good he's done and all of his accomplishments, just to beat him down for weight loss pills. I think people who want to pop a pill for quick weight loss need a reality check anyway, they need a lifestyle change, get active and eat right and the weight will come off. http://www.vox.com/2015/4/16/8412427/dr-oz-health-claims




Oh my gosh SeaBreeze!  Red Clover Blossom!!!!!  Say it ain't so!  How could you trust your health to a clover flower?  That's almost as bad as hoping or trusting that some kind of tea might have some use in weight loss!

I just did a little looking and found where WebMD suggests fuelling up with water to boost your metabolism as well as eating spicy foods to boost your metabolism.  Aaaand it also mentions that a compound in green tea, called catechins can actually speed up your metabolism by 17% for a short time.  Raspberry tea anyone?  Is it that unthinkable especially in light of the effect mentioned here from green tea?


http://www.webmd.com/diet/ss/slideshow-boost-your-metabolism


*Recharge With Green Tea*


...Drinking green tea or oolong tea offers the combined benefits of caffeine and catechins, substances shown to rev up the metabolism for a couple of hours. Research suggests that drinking 2 to 4 cups of either tea may push the body to burn 17% more calories during moderately intense exercise for a short time.....'


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## AZ Jim (Apr 24, 2015)

I retain my opinion of OZ.  He's a showman and a quickfix peddler.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 24, 2015)

Debby said:


> Oh my gosh SeaBreeze!  Red Clover Blossom!!!!!  Say it ain't so!  How could you trust your health to a clover flower?  That's almost as bad as hoping or trusting that some kind of tea might have some use in weight loss!
> 
> I just did a little looking and found where WebMD suggests fuelling up with water to boost your metabolism as well as eating spicy foods to boost your metabolism.  Aaaand it also mentions that a compound in green tea, called catechins can actually speed up your metabolism by 17% for a short time.  Raspberry tea anyone?  Is it that unthinkable especially in light of the effect mentioned here from green tea?
> http://www.webmd.com/diet/ss/slideshow-boost-your-metabolism



Lol Debby, yes, I trusted my health and my life to a clover flower http://www.natmedtalk.com/wiki/Red_Clover :love_heart:  It's just as bad as those who think that a plant that grows in the ground like marijuana can actually help with chronic pain...how absurd, these people need their heads examined!!   Some people actually trust lemon juice in water to increase their metabolism, no shortage of nut jobs in this world is there?


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## ~Lenore (Apr 24, 2015)

*I enjoy his show when I remember to watch it.  I do not take it as gospel but I usually learn something when i watch it.  I do not run out and get anything.  In fact I have never seen him sell anything. *


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## Underock1 (Apr 24, 2015)

Dr Oz has won the Pigasus award from the James Randi Foundation three years in a row. He promotes dangerous homeopathy,  healing through "energy therapy", provides a platform for psychics, and gives John Edwards another chance to get rich exploiting people's grief. I've never seen him sing or dance, so my answer to the posted question would be "neither".


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 26, 2015)

Some insight into Dr. Oz's critics...

http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/dr...orate-sponsored-doctors-tied-to-gmo-industry/


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## Underock1 (Apr 26, 2015)

Hi SeaBreeze. No surprise that the alternative medicine industry would defend him. Whether one chooses to believe in them or not, homeopathy, psychic predictions, and speaking to the dead have nothing to do with science.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 26, 2015)

I don't know about psychic predictions or speaking to the dead, but alternative natural medicines/plants/spices have been used with great success for many years without the need for scientific approval.


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## Underock1 (Apr 26, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> I don't know about psychic predictions or speaking to the dead, but alternative natural medicines/plants/spices have been used with great success for many years without the need for scientific approval.



No doubt. All medicines derive from the natural world in one way or another. There is no "alternative" world. You have treatments that have been scientifically tested and proven to be repeatedly effective, and others that have not. What would be the point in refusing to approve a treatment that has been tested and _proven _to work? People are still grinding Rhino horns to improve their sex lives. Because they happen to have a good time after taking it one night, does not mean it was the Rhino horn.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2015)

Science is subject to change, imperfect. It can only disprove.


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## Butterfly (Apr 26, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I haven't heard any of his fans here defending his 'miracle fat burning' products.  Do you actually believe this kind of stuff works?!



I most definitely do not.  That stuff is  either just useless, or downright dangerous.  With the exception of normalizing a low thyroid, the only thing that works is using more calories than you take in.


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## Underock1 (Apr 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Science is subject to change, imperfect. It can only disprove.



Everything is subject to change. Change is good. Without it we would still be living in caves. Everything is imperfect. Science at least seeks to perfect itself. Science seeks proof through experiment.  Nothing can be disproved. That's why we have religion.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2015)

Underock, you are fun to joust with!:love_heart:


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## Underock1 (Apr 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Underock, you are fun to joust with!:love_heart:



Oh. This is like your jiu jitsu move. I swing, you step aside, and I fall on my face. Right? Well you smell nice, so its O.K.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2015)

Mermaid busted! Thanks for the scented compliment. Lol....nthego:


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## oakapple (Apr 27, 2015)

No idea about this Dr Oz..... However sounds like a quack to me. I have never taken any vitamins, and am fit and healthy, just with a normal diet, including all foods.Nobody had heard of the term vitamin until about 1915, much less used them. They are big business these days.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 27, 2015)

oakapple said:


> No idea about this Dr Oz..... However sounds like a quack to me. I have never taken any vitamins, and am fit and healthy, just with a normal diet, including all foods.Nobody had heard of the term vitamin until about 1915, much less used them. They are big business these days.



I don't think we have anything even close to this type of programme in the UK.  I wonder if it would even be allowed with all the 'miracle' stuff that he advertises.


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## Underock1 (Apr 27, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I don't think we have anything even close to this type of programme in the UK.  I wonder if it would even be allowed with all the 'miracle' stuff that he advertises.



American TV...  Oh. Sorry. I should go to the "Have You Ever Been Ashamed" thread.


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## ndynt (Apr 27, 2015)

When his show first aired I tried to watch a few segments....because the subject matter sounded interesting.  Was mostly disappointed.  Also, find that what he might consider a "cure" at one time is quickly replaced with another "cure".   If anyone followed all the suggestions, on his shows, they would not have time or room for any real food.


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## Debby (Apr 27, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> Hi SeaBreeze. No surprise that the alternative medicine industry would defend him. Whether one chooses to believe in them or not, homeopathy, psychic predictions, and speaking to the dead have nothing to do with science.




Well Underock, there's a lot of very smart people who would disagree with most of what you've said, but you're entitled to believe whatever you want to believe.  I prefer an open mind rather than adopting a new religious dogma, i.e. science is all there is and science 'knows' all.


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## Cookie (Apr 27, 2015)

Looks like we've been here before.  My take is that it's good to know what options you have in dealing with your health - its not always an either/or situation.  

I believe allopathic medicine (the use of pharmacological active ingredients or physical interventions to treat or suppress symptoms or pathophysological processes of diseases or conditions) has its place, and so does alternative medicine. Allopathic medicine often does not work and often drugs do not work or will make a person even sicker. If allopathic medicine is so great, why are there still so many people dying of heart disease, cancer and other deadly diseases.

We're all responsible for ourselves and must make our own educated decisions, so before anyone dismisses all alternative treatments, its a good idea to do some research. 

The mainstream medical establishment has been fighting alternative healing for as long as I can remember, but will accept certain things only after years of testimonials and after their own efforts have failed. The mainstream medical community has many reasons for this war on alternative medicine, which I won't go into here.

Research on alternative medicine has been scanty due to lack of funding, unlike the drug industry where funding is plentiful and supported by the corporate community, so real data on the benefits of many alternative medications is almost impossible to obtain, relying mostly on personal testimonials.

It has already been established earlier on in this thread that the alleged dangerous diet potions some people are referring to have not been advocated by Dr. Oz. 

Link this thread with another thread on the number of ectomies you have had under the treatment of mainstream medicine and how many ectomies people have had under alternative medicine. I have had no ectomies and support the use of alternative treatments together with mainstream medicine, should the need arise.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 27, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> American TV...  Oh. Sorry. I should go to the "Have You Ever Been Ashamed" thread.



Simple statement of fact.  I doubt it could be shown here.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 27, 2015)

Personally, I don't mind looking into some alternative preventative things, so long as they are natural..  However, I would never substitute alternative medicine for real medical attention from an MD.   

I think Dr. Oz is a sellout.. if not a quack, however, I simply don't care enough about him to argue over it..  To each his own.   It's only going to take one person dying from following his advise to put him either in jail, or off the air.  As with everything.  "let the buyer beware"


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 27, 2015)




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## ndynt (Apr 27, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Link this thread with another thread on the number of ectomies you have had under the treatment of mainstream medicine and how many ectomies people have had under alternative medicine. I have had no ectomies and support the use of alternative treatments together with mainstream medicine, should the need arise.


If I am not mistaken this thread was about personal opinions about Dr. Oz vs belief in alternative medicine. How I personally view Dr. Oz has nothing to do with alternative medicine.  Actually, I am a advocate of alternative medicine.  I do use supplements and herbs.  In fact, I was brought up using alternative methods of healing.  My maternal grandmother and grandfather were what I growing up considered "witch doctors".  By profession, my grandfather was a chemist.  They grew all sorts of herbs along with using other methods to treat illnesses and accidents.  Some days people would line up outside their door, to be treated.  And of course, I was a recpient of their somewhat unorthodox treatments.   Some of it was way out....oils and prayer.  Some I laughed at.  Like when a man had his ribs broken, when kicked by a horse.  My grandfather lit some herbs on fire, in a glass jar...applied it to his ribs.  Then pulled it off...and wrapped his ribs.  Yet, now when I go to my accupuncturist he uses the same very effective procedure on my back.   Only it now has a name (cupping).   But, sometimes, as you said....the need still arises for the medical model.  I for one, would not be brave enough to try an alternative treatment for a full blown heart attack or a large, rapidly growing mass, ect.


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## Cookie (Apr 27, 2015)

I agree with your way of thinking Nona, and that your opinion of Dr. Oz is separate from that of your opinion about alternative medicine. And sorry, I think I could have worded my statement better about alternative medicine and ectomies.  What I mean is that following a preventative lifestyle (which may include healthy lifestyle recommendations by alternative health practitioners) might eliminate the need for many surgeries.


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## ndynt (Apr 28, 2015)

*No problem, Cookie.  Although I have always wanted to believe the healthy preventive lifestyle theory, at this stage of the game I wonder.  As an example, I have one sister.  Same gene pool, she started smoking and drinking in her teens.  Never exercised.  Always ate meat and shellfish.  Yet, has had only one surgery, for occupation related carpal tunnel syndrome.  Except for hypertension and arthritis, is healthy.  
I never smoked or drank,  a vegetarian and exercised since childhood. YET?  *


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## Shalimar (Apr 28, 2015)

I hear you, Nona. My mother broke all the rules, and lived to be 94. Mobile until the day she died.


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## Cookie (Apr 28, 2015)

I agree, Nona. There's no guarantee the healthy lifestyle is going to save us. I believe genes play a role, not just a healthy lifestyle. My mother in law is still going strong in her late 90s, and everyone on her side of the family lives to be over 100-110. She eats a traditional mainstream diet and is as healthy as a horse. After her husband (who had been overweight) died of a heart attack in his 60s, she lost a lot of weight and watched herself. There are always exceptional cases.  And people from the same family can also inherit somewhat different genes. My friend who was a strict vegetarian for the last 30 years died of a brain tumor not too long ago, yet his sister, who had exactly the same diet is perfectly fine to this day. I do my best with what I have and what I know, not perfect, but trying.


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## merlin (Apr 28, 2015)

ndynt said:


> *No problem, Cookie.  Although I have always wanted to believe the healthy preventive lifestyle theory, at this stage of the game I wonder.  As an example, I have one sister.  Same gene pool, she started smoking and drinking in her teens.  Never exercised.  Always ate meat and shellfish.  Yet, has had only one surgery, for occupation related carpal tunnel syndrome.  Except for hypertension and arthritis, is healthy.
> I never smoked or drank,  a vegetarian and exercised since childhood. YET?  *



This is a fascinating subject Nona and I guess really needs a new thread, but the fact that there is another element at play here apart from lifestyle and diet, has always fascinated me. 

While studying Chinese Medicine, where the adage is you only pay your doctor when you are well, is based on balancing the body energies. If you develop symptoms of illness your doctor has failed, so he doesn't get paid.
In modern terminology this means not only a good diet and lifestyle, but also dealing with stress and the emotional body. Listening (Counselling) is also a component of Chinese Medicine as is ensuring a healthy connection with nature. I do believe there is something in this.

Several years after I completed my studies, I came across a book that kind of blew my mind, I have reread it several times since and I would recommend it, but I see they asking silly money for it on Amazon now (I bought it for $12 in 2002) $580 new and $183 S/H (I must insure the one I have on my bookshelf)  http://is.gd/UXPr5W maybe there are cheaper sources or a library perhaps.
It may be considered flaky by some, and is written by a couple of German psychotherapists leaning towards the spiritual side of life, I found it a thought provoking book. If nothing else read the reviews on Amazon.

Quotes from the cover

Contrary to conventional opinion, illness is not some quirk of nature you have to fight. A truer understanding of illness actually helps you stay healthier. When you "understand what your symptoms are telling you," you view them as bodily expressions of inner conflicts. Their symbolism will reveal the real problems you're facing. Pick a current health issue and see the difference when you treat it as a sign of healing instead of as a negative, following the approach of two psychologists, one trained in spiritual traditions and the other in natural healing and psychotherapy. Troubles with infection, allergies, respiration, digestion, skin and nervous system, heart and circulation, sexuality and pregnancy, even accidents, come with practical actions to take to remedy them.

This radical book deprives us of illness as an alibi for our unresolved problems. It attempts to show that the patient is not the innocent victim of some quirk of nature, but actually the author of his or her own sickness. In this way Dethlefsen and Dahlke bring the metaphysical aspect of illness to the fore. From this viewpoint symptoms are seen to be bodily expressions of psychological conflicts, able through their symbolism to reveal the patient's current problems.


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## Cookie (Apr 28, 2015)

Merlin, that book sounds very interesting and I'd like to have a look at it.  I've bookmarked the page and will search for it in my library.  I agree that energy fields and stress are big contributors to health issues.  Thank you.  You seem to have a lot of information about these things.


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## merlin (Apr 28, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Merlin, that book sounds very interesting and I'd like to have a look at it.  I've bookmarked the page and will search for it in my library.  I agree that energy fields and stress are big contributors to health issues.  Thank you.  You seem to have a lot of information about these things.



I studied complementary and Chinese medicine during the '80s and '90s  Cookie, and ran an Alternative Health Centre in the '90s so I picked up a lot information, though my memory is fading a bit, and I may have to revert to reading comics soon 

You could borrow my copy if it wasn't for the miles between us


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