# Anti-Gun Rallies



## Sunny (Mar 23, 2018)

Anybody else going to one of the many anti-gun demonstrations or marches taking place tomorrow?  Young people who are tired of losing their friends to mindless violence are pouring into Washington, DC to march on the Capitol tomorrow.

We're having a "seniors" demonstration out on the main street in front of my community. The signs will proclaim that grandchildren are more precious than guns. Thousands are expected to go. I'll be there.


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## Shalimar (Mar 23, 2018)

Never underestimate the strength and tenacity of the American people.


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## john19485 (Mar 23, 2018)

I got my first rifle at nine years old, would run out the back door of my grandmother's place, and would go hunting with my dog shorty, certain people will always want to get rid of their hurt by hurting other people.


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## Linda (Mar 23, 2018)

I guess I'm seeing this from a different view point than a lot of people.  Also I am ONLY talking about the student walk outs and rallies.  From what I'm hearing BULLYING is behind a lot of the school shootings.  I realize ALL school shootings are done by sick, mentally ill people, but I think they've been bullied.  

So it seems to me that instead of walking out of school and participating in a rally a lot more would be accomplished if those kids would keep their behinds in school and vow to go a whole day without bullying one single person!  If that were done, I think a lot more good would transpire.  Unless you have been bullied you have no idea how harmful it is.  Also it's not just students doing it, there are a few (only a few) teachers being bullies also.   

In case anyone is wondering, we do keep a loaded 357 magnum in the headboard of our bed.  No one under 19 ever comes in our house and I trust all of them.  If a child were to come here the pistol goes up in the top of a closet in a hiding area.  Even I can't get it without a step stool.  We live in an area where it can take the police up to 2 hours to get here and yet, there are tweekers and roving criminals from time to time.  A home invasion done by ruthless thugs gives you no time to call the sheriff and request some help.

Sorry, but I think anyone who attends a student anti-gun rally, who has EVER bullied anyone, is a hypocrite.


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## Gary O' (Mar 23, 2018)

Linda said:


> In case anyone is wondering, we do keep a loaded 357 magnum in the headboard of our bed.  No one under 19 ever comes in our house and I trust all of them.  If a child were to come here the pistol goes up in the top of a closet in a hiding area.  Even I can't get it without a step stool.  We live in an area where it can take the police up to 2 hours to get here and yet, there are tweekers and roving criminals from time to time.  A home invasion done by ruthless thugs gives you no time to call the sheriff and request some help.
> 
> Sorry, but I think anyone who attends a student anti-gun rally, who has EVER bullied anyone, is a hypocrite.



I understand the thinking of the marches.

But

it all depends on where one dwells

out here, the authorities recommend keeping a loaded gun near at hand 

two hours to get here...would be nice

they don't come here until things are over

...the city, the big city? I can understand
like some towns in the old west, check yer guns at the city limits
But out a ways?
Yer a sitting duck
a very helpless sitting duck

peace loving folks dwell here
we are all armed to keep it

I have a 357 in my bed stand
and an over/under on the wall
loaded
ready

it gives me a chance

the way it is

this ain't heaven out here
sometimes looks it
but heh
hell looks warm in winter


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 24, 2018)

Nope!

I'm not against guns, I'm against getting shot!

I give these young people a great deal of credit for working within the system to put forward some reasonable gun controls and safety measures.  

I'm a little concerned that some other organizations appear to be rallying around these kids in an effort to shape and steer their message.  I hope these young people are smart enough to see what is happening and stay the course.


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## Mizzkitt (Mar 24, 2018)

Canada used to be so smug about the fact that we did not have so much gun violence as the USA. Unfortunately that is slowly changing here in spite of the different rules regarding gun control.

So I do have to agree somewhat with what Linda said in the above post, but that too is just a small part of the big problem.


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## Falcon (Mar 24, 2018)

One can  march, rally and demonstrate  all they want for all the good it may do, but STILL  people are gonna die.


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## Don M. (Mar 24, 2018)

As the owner of multiple firearms, I tend to AGREE with what these students are trying to accomplish.  The 2nd Amendment should NOT be overturned...BUT, like most other laws, there needs to be "Exceptions" to the rule.  School children should NOT have to fear going to school.  There are thousands of people walking our streets that should NOT have access to firearms, and at the TOP of that list should be those with a history of violence or mental disorders.  These types of people need to be identified, and the rules altered such that they cannot purchase or possess firearms.  Things like these "bump stocks" should be banned.  Anyone wanting to purchase a military style weapon should have to undergo a waiting period and a thorough background check before the purchase is approved.  People with young children in the home should be required to keep their firearms in a manner that doesn't allow their kids easy access to the weapons...if they fail to do so, and the kid goes nuts, the parents should be held equally responsible.  
I am a bit disappointed at the unrelenting stance taken by the leaders of the NRA.  They Should be leading the movement to keep firearms out of the hands of questionable individuals.  After all, the illegal use of firearms, by the 1%,  reflects badly on the 99% of law abiding gun owners.  
We live in a very rural area, with little or no violent crime....but that could change at any moment, and I reserve the right to protect myself and the family.  However, many of our cities are becoming zones of violence and anarchy, and the laws MUST be changed to account for this increase in violence.  
I support these students, and I hope they can Finally get the attention of our politicians, and begin the move towards more Common Sense in our laws.


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## Sunny (Mar 24, 2018)

Our rally was enormously successful, and was considered "only the beginning." It showed the support these marvelous young people are getting from their grandparents' generation. The signs had messages like "Protect Grandchildren, Not Guns," with many others that were less polite. I carried a sign with only one word: "Enough."  Lots of traffic going by on the street, lots of supportive honking, including from drivers of large trucks, and even a bus driver. Most of the cars honked. People were leaning out of the window waving at us, and many took pictures of us.

We may turn up on the evening news. And I continue to be in awe of the young millenials who started all this. Their common sense and maturity are incredible. Hearing some of them interviewed on TV, I had the feeling that some of them should be running for President!  (Too bad they have to wait until they're 35.)

I'll try to upload a photo, so far having no luck with that.


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## Warrigal (Mar 24, 2018)

Peaceful congregation to highlight a cause is one of the civil rights that belong to free people, including those considered too young to have a say at the ballot boxes. It is Palm Sunday today and people, young and old, will be marching in support of asylum seekers that Australia is treating abominably on Manus Island and Nauru. I support, in spirit, all of the marches around the globe that have noble intentions.

Well done, Sunny.


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## chic (Mar 24, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Anybody else going to one of the many anti-gun demonstrations or marches taking place tomorrow?  Young people who are tired of losing their friends to mindless violence are pouring into Washington, DC to march on the Capitol tomorrow.
> 
> We're having a "seniors" demonstration out on the main street in front of my community. The signs will proclaim that grandchildren are more precious than guns. Thousands are expected to go. I'll be there.



That's great Sunny. We didn't have any senior rallies here, but there was a huge protest march in Boston. I admire these students for their courage and hope some positive changes will result from their actions.


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## ClassicRockr (Mar 24, 2018)

Falcon said:


> One can  march, rally and demonstrate  all they want for all the good it may do, but STILL  people are gonna die.



Have to TOTALLY agree with Falcon. For years, there have been all kinds of marches, rallies and demonstrations about darn near everything, and most, that I know of, with little results. I do firmly believe that assault type weapons should be banned, but, will it ever happen? I really sort of doubt it. One thing for all of us to really remember........whatever is banned, someway/somehow people will still find a way to get what is banned.


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## rgp (Mar 24, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Have to TOTALLY agree with Falcon. For years, there have been all kinds of marches, rallies and demonstrations about darn near everything, and most, that I know of, with little results. I do firmly believe that assault type weapons should be banned, but, will it ever happen? I really sort of doubt it. One thing for all of us to really remember........whatever is banned, someway/somehow people will still find a way to get what is banned.




   I read somewhere once, ...I really do not remember where? But it was said that more alcohol was consumed during prohibition , than there was before or since ?


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## rgp (Mar 24, 2018)

Instead of taking away guns....how'bout we re-open the asylums ?


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## NancyNGA (Mar 24, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Have to TOTALLY agree with Falcon. For years, there have been all kinds of marches, rallies and demonstrations about darn near everything, and most, that I know of, with little results. I do firmly believe that assault type weapons should be banned, but, will it ever happen? I really sort of doubt it. One thing for all of us to really remember........*whatever is banned, someway/somehow people will still find a way to get what is banned*.


That's true, CR.  But it's almost a certainty that nothing will change, if no one tries.  I really admire these kids. More of them will remember because of this event.  Every little bit helps. Change is usually a slow incremental process.  They certainly aren't asking for unrealistic changes.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 24, 2018)

Falcon said:


> One can  march, rally and demonstrate  all they want for all the good it may do, but STILL  people are gonna die.


True enough John, but I am proud of young who are hopeful of changing a world that may one day school THEIR children.  Social concern is to be commended.  I remember when we were young and had hopes too, alas as I approach the next chapter I have lost my faith in good changes, but I do still have hope.


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## Sunny (Mar 25, 2018)

Here's a lovely article about this, which should stir feelings of hope in even the most disillusioned.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...053ba58f1e4_story.html?utm_term=.c14cd46d5920


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## ClassicRockr (Mar 25, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Here's a lovely article about this, which should stir feelings of hope in even the most disillusioned.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...053ba58f1e4_story.html?utm_term=.c14cd46d5920



Good article, but..........


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## SifuPhil (Mar 25, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Here's a lovely article about this, which should stir feelings of hope in even the most disillusioned.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...053ba58f1e4_story.html?utm_term=.c14cd46d5920



Unfortunately they still buy into the belief that changing the party you vote for will bring about significant changes ...


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## Shalimar (Mar 25, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Unfortunately they still buy into the belief that changing the party you vote for will bring about significant changes ...


It has here. New BC govt cut medical premiums by half January first. There will soon be federal changes to the judicial system due to the poor treatement of indigenous persons.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 25, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> It has here. New BC govt cut medical premiums by half January first. There will soon be federal changes to the judicial system due to the poor treatement of indigenous persons.



Yeah, but it's a little different down here.

Here, they're ALL crooked, one way or another.


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## Sunny (Mar 25, 2018)

No political party consists of perfect angels, of course. But there are tremendous differences in social legislation, international relations, the economy, health care, education, environmental concerns, and anything else you can think of, depending on which party is in power.  I think the young people with the signs saying, "Vote them out!" have the right idea.


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## Manatee (Mar 25, 2018)

When they appeared on the news, I changed the channel.


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## fmdog44 (Mar 25, 2018)

Assault weapons should be banned. I own 5 pistols and two are loaded 24 hrs./day. The students are not protesting for their schools rather the mindless lack of control over gun buying. Why allow bump stocks?. The naïve notion that citizens should own whatever cops own is laughable. Police buy military vehicles and weapons at no or very low cost. Also, the stupid notion of fighting the military in case of a coup. How many tanks will fit in a typical home garage? How many jet fighters can one shoot down with an AR15? In WWII the M1 carbine held 8 shots and we fought two armies with them and won. Citizens fighting the most powerful military in the world? I think not. I am a former NRA member and will fight them today on every turn.


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## oldman (Mar 26, 2018)

OMG, I went to D.C., which was my home airport when I flew for United on Saturday for a get-together with some other pilots that retired from United at one of the larger hotels in Washington. Had I known the traffic problems that I would run into, I would have went down Friday night and stayed over the two nights. Traffic was horrible. Way worse than New York City on a Monday morning or LA anytime.


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## ClassicRockr (Mar 26, 2018)

Manatee said:


> When they appeared on the news, I changed the channel.



Exactly what we did! 

Yes, they have a right to carry/show signs, for whatever that’s going to do.


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Have to TOTALLY agree with Falcon. For years, there have been all kinds of marches, rallies and demonstrations about darn near everything, and most, that I know of, with little results. I do firmly believe that assault type weapons should be banned, but, will it ever happen? I really sort of doubt it. One thing for all of us to really remember........whatever is banned, someway/somehow people will still find a way to get what is banned.



I have to wonder how you define an assault type weapon. That seems to be a mighty slippery slope. For instance. Which of these rifles should be banned? Trick question, because both are semi automatic and hold 17 to 18 rounds. The only difference is the color and shape.


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

As a follow up''' govt' says there are approx. 300 million guns in the USA. now un-scientifically, I checked around my small town and found a ratio of roughly 10 unregistered guns to every 4 that are registered. Do the math, I would say that equates to an awful lot of guns. Therefore my question would be... how do you roundup all those weapons that exist in the USA? Do you send out brown shirts to take them by force? Pass a law that say's "turn em in or else" Also, how do you stop the fact that a gun is man made item and can be built by anyone who so desires.  I would have to say time would be better spent to find out why nobody did their job rather than try to make this an NRA problem. While on that subject, can someone please name an NRA member who has gone ballistic and  committed a mass shooting. Don't think you can.
What little I could stomach of the "protest march" chilled me when I listened to children saying the constitution is an out dated document that should be discarded. That alone should frighten every law abiding citizen just to think that young ones are being brainwashed into this kind of thinking.


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## Don M. (Mar 26, 2018)

These students managed to hold dozens of rallies, all over the nation, involving huge numbers of supporters....Without allowing their protests to deteriorate into rioting, looting, and burning.  That's a far cry from the "protests" we have seen in recent years, involving criticism of the police....which are quickly taken over by inner city thugs whose purpose seems to be to create chaos.  

It is encouraging to see that there are still people in this country who understand, and honor, the right of peaceful protest.  They may actually get something positive done...as opposed to the rioters who only harden peoples attitudes against their "Cause".


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## SifuPhil (Mar 26, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> ... While on that subject, can someone please name an NRA member who has gone ballistic and  committed a mass shooting. Don't think you can.



Timothy McVeigh (although he went a little beyond just shooting).


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

Don M. said:


> These students managed to hold dozens of rallies, all over the nation, involving huge numbers of supporters....Without allowing their protests to deteriorate into rioting, looting, and burning.  That's a far cry from the "protests" we have seen in recent years, involving criticism of the police....which are quickly taken over by inner city thugs whose purpose seems to be to create chaos.
> 
> It is encouraging to see that there are still people in this country who understand, and honor, the right of peaceful protest.  They may actually get something positive done...as opposed to the rioters who only harden peoples attitudes against their "Cause".



That's true... (sigh) now if we could only get them to clean up after a rally. Really guys and gals, you obviously carried these signs into the rally, what would it take to carry them out and dispose of properly?


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## SifuPhil (Mar 26, 2018)

That does it. I'm going to plan a protest against the garbage the protestor's left behind.


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Timothy McVeigh (although he went a little beyond just shooting).



Yes, but how does that tie into banning assault type weapons? And, was there a huge outcry to ban fertilizer and rental trucks, and blame Hertz or Monsanto ?


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## ClassicRockr (Mar 26, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> I have to wonder how you define an assault type weapon. That seems to be a mighty slippery slope. For instance. Which of these rifles should be banned? Trick question, because both are semi automatic and hold 17 to 18 rounds. The only difference is the color and shape.



Top one isn't a "military" type one. Anyone would say the bottom one is a "military" type one........at least those that have been in the military or seen them shoot at a range.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 26, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> Yes, but how does that tie into banning assault type weapons? And, was there a huge outcry to ban fertilizer and rental trucks, and blame Hertz or Monsanto ?



I see your point. But then, there were not numerous explosions in the course of a few weeks, either.


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> I see your point. But then, there were not numerous explosions in the course of a few weeks, either.



I'm with you, but, I just don't have a definitive answer to fix the gun mess, and I'm always Leary of knee jerk reactions to problems


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## SifuPhil (Mar 26, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> I'm with you, but, I just don't have a definitive answer to fix the gun mess, and I'm always Leary of knee jerk reactions to problems



Understood.

And somehow I don't think that a total ban like in the UK or Australia would work here. The culture is too entrenched. 

I think it might take several small fixes instead of one big one.


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## HipGnosis (Mar 26, 2018)

I have 2 problems with the 'rallies'.

Taking gun advice from victims is like taking financial planning advice from people on welfare.  They have personal insight, but they don't have a viable solution because they don't see the whole picture. 

These kids think it's OK to break the rules and walk out of school, but think everyone else will obey the rules they're proposing.

HipG


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## Camper6 (Mar 26, 2018)

HipGnosis said:


> I have 2 problems with the 'rallies'.
> 
> Taking gun advice from victims is like taking financial planning advice from people on welfare.  They have personal insight, but they don't have a viable solution because they don't see the whole picture.
> 
> ...



Well it doesn't take much to figure out that something has to be done and the status quo can't continue victim or no victim.

It's beyond the point of reasonableness.


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

Without sounding holier than tho, or stepping on toes, I'd love to hear everybody's solution to this problem. Lot's of people say something has to be done (myself included) but, I myself don't have an answer that could become a practical working solution.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2018)

Solution no. 1:  Stop allowing political campaigns to be financed by organizations such as the NRA. Put strict limits on the amount of contributions allowed; only that way will elected politicans be out of the pocket of the NRA.

That would not remove the guns already out there, but it's a start.


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## Robusta (Mar 26, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Solution no. 1:  Stop allowing political campaigns to be financed by organizations such as the NRA. Put strict limits on the amount of contributions allowed; only that way will elected politicans be out of the pocket of the NRA.
> 
> That would not remove the guns already out there, but it's a start.



"such as the NRA".  So what organizations would be OK funding political campaigns?     How about overturning Citizens United, and disallowing any funding of any campaign, except by a living breathing registered voting person.  Corporations are not people.


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

Sunny, Here's what my wife just asked me. How are you and yours going to take our guns. (estimates now say over 3 billion guns in the US) ??? How????
Also, what dictator gets to decide who can contribute to a campaign and who can't.  Reminder... this is a Republic, not a democracy.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 26, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> Sunny, Here's what my wife just asked me. How are you and yours going to take our guns. (estimates now say over 3 billion guns in the US) ??? How????
> Also, what dictator gets to decide who can contribute to a campaign and who can't.  *Reminder... this is a Republic, not a democracy.*



It's technically a Democratic Republic.

... oops ... political talk ... bad Phil ... baaad ...


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

Thanks  SifuPhil.  almost went back to correct, but I was worried this might be getting too political


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## 911 (Mar 26, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> Sunny, Here's what my wife just asked me. How are you and yours going to take our guns. (estimates now say over 3 billion guns in the US) ??? How????
> Also, what dictator gets to decide who can contribute to a campaign and who can't.  Reminder... this is a Republic, not a democracy.



Whose estimates are those? The last count that I saw was a total of about 350-400 million, which include somewhere in the neighborhood of 130 million handguns, 125 million rifles and 95 million shotguns. It's really difficult to come up with an exact or even an "in the neighborhood" estimate because the major gun manufacturers do not have to report their total number of guns that they manufacture on a yearly basis.


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## 911 (Mar 26, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Top one isn't a "military" type one. Anyone would say the bottom one is a "military" type one........at least those that have been in the military or seen them shoot at a range.



OK, you have succeeded at confusing me. Maybe I missed a post somewhere, but I have no idea what "one" is supposed to mean in your post. 

We hear a lot about banning assault type weapons and the AR-15 is mentioned most frequently. Personally, I think that the AR-15 is a great weapon and I really enjoy shooting it. And, BTW, the AR-15 is considered to be the equivalent of the military's M-16. The last number that I saw on this weapon was about 2 million are now in the hands of Americans with more being sold daily. But, again, we cannot put an exact number on it because the top three gun manufacturers do not report their numbers of sold weapons.


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

911 said:


> OK, you have succeeded at confusing me. Maybe I missed a post somewhere, but I have no idea what "one" is supposed to mean in your post.



I believe he was answering post #28. where I tried to explain that the only difference between the 2 was one was scary black.


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## ClassicRockr (Mar 26, 2018)

Yes, the top picture looks like a typical rifle. The bottom picture looks like an Army weapon.


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Yes, the top picture looks like a typical rifle. The bottom picture looks like an Army weapon.



Yep, and point being in order to ban one, it would have to be under the criteria of being semi-auto and how many rounds it could fire, since you can't ban a gun for looking scary. Therefore, both guns would have to be illegal. Seems silly doesn't it? yet that's the problem with quick reactions and not thinking it through.


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## RadishRose (Mar 26, 2018)

" the top three gun manufacturers do not report their numbers of sold weapons." 

Why the heck not? 

These are not jars of peanut butter, these are weapons made to kill. I don't understand.


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## Camper6 (Mar 26, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> I have to wonder how you define an assault type weapon. That seems to be a mighty slippery slope. For instance. Which of these rifles should be banned? Trick question, because both are semi automatic and hold 17 to 18 rounds. The only difference is the color and shape.



Notice the magazine which can be switched out for reloading? How do you reload the top one. So that's not the only difference.
Then you have the type of ammunition to consider and the penetrating ability and the rate of fire.

The black one style isn't issued to the military if it wasn't more efficient. The state of Connecticut has a ban.

And the black one can be fitted with after market accessories like high capacity magazines and bump stocks.

So it's not just color and shape.


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## ClassicRockr (Mar 26, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Notice the magazine which can be switched out for reloading? How do you reload the top one. So that's not the only difference.
> Then you have the type of ammunition to consider and the penetrating ability and the rate of fire.
> 
> The black one style isn't issued to the military if it wasn't more efficient. The state of Connecticut has a ban.
> ...



This is very true.


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## ClassicRockr (Mar 26, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> " the top three gun manufacturers do not report their numbers of sold weapons."
> 
> Why the heck not?
> 
> These are not jars of peanut butter, these are weapons made to kill. I don't understand.



Perhaps a person has to be a gun owner to understand. Heck, I don't know. As far as "made to kill", that is your thinking, but to gun owners that only use guns and rifles for target shooting, they don't look at it that way. For them, it's a fun activity at their local range. My wife loves shooting her handgun and rifle.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2018)

But for those who get such pleasure out of owning a gun, would it really be so terrible to use a temporary rented gun at the target range?  Wouldn't it be worth the slight inconvenience, if it saved even one innocent life?


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## squatting dog (Mar 26, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Notice the magazine which can be switched out for reloading? How do you reload the top one. So that's not the only difference.
> Then you have the type of ammunition to consider and the penetrating ability and the rate of fire.
> 
> The black one style isn't issued to the military if it wasn't more efficient. The state of Connecticut has a ban.
> ...



Again, the point has been missed. If you ban one type of gun for it's semi-auto capability, or removable magazines
 you have all others covered by the same blanket. So, does the govt just ban the ATI mfg gun because you can remove the magazine. Well then what's to stop another company from offering the same style gun?  On a side note, that particular ATI is only 22 caliber, but was designed to be an exact replica of an mp5 right down to the same weight and a fat 9mm style magazine even though the 22's look lost in there. That allows it to be used for training of law enforcement world wide including our swat units. 

You're also confusing this with an AR-15 style rifle which can be fitted with a bump stock. As far as I can find, no such option exists for an ATI GSG 22 cal. Of yeah, my JC Higgins 22 has a scope on it. (and is the terror of every squirrel around my place)


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## Warrigal (Mar 26, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Understood.
> 
> And somehow I don't think that a total ban like in the UK or Australia would work here. The culture is too entrenched.
> 
> I think it might take several small fixes instead of one big one.


Again I say, there is not a total ban in Australia. There is national registration and a licensing system that becomes more restrictive for certain categories of firearm. It also applies to other weapons, including knives, swords and martial arts items. 

Not all gun owners think the same way. Most are accepting of regulations that impose limits on carnage, especially of children in their classrooms. Only the very selfish consider unfettered freedom to be worth the lives of their children and grandchildren. Or the lives of the children of their neighbours.


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## ClassicRockr (Mar 26, 2018)

Sunny said:


> But for those who get such pleasure out of owning a gun, would it really be so terrible to use a temporary rented gun at the target range?  Wouldn't it be worth the slight inconvenience, if it saved even one innocent life?



A person likes using their own firearms. They know how it shoots and they can set the sights for how they shoot.


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## Camper6 (Mar 26, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> Again, the point has been missed. If you ban one type of gun for it's semi-auto capability, or removable magazines
> you have all others covered by the same blanket. So, does the govt just ban the ATI mfg gun because you can remove the magazine. Well then what's to stop another company from offering the same style gun?  On a side note, that particular ATI is only 22 caliber, but was designed to be an exact replica of an mp5 right down to the same weight and a fat 9mm style magazine even though the 22's look lost in there. That allows it to be used for training of law enforcement world wide including our swat units.
> 
> You're also confusing this with an AR-15 style rifle which can be fitted with a bump stock. As far as I can find, no such option exists for an ATI GSG 22 cal. Of yeah, my JC Higgins 22 has a scope on it. (and is the terror of every squirrel around my place)



Well the fully automatics are restricted.  I don't think a full ban will work in the U.S.A. because of the Second Amendment and the NRA lobby.


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## Camper6 (Mar 26, 2018)

Warrigal said:


> Again I say, there is not a total ban in Australia. There is national registration and a licensing system that becomes more restrictive for certain categories of firearm. It also applies to other weapons, including knives, swords and martial arts items.
> 
> Not all gun owners think the same way. Most are accepting of regulations that impose limits on carnage, especially of children in their classrooms. Only the very selfish consider unfettered freedom to be worth the lives of their children and grandchildren. Or the lives of the children of their neighbours.



Does Australia have anything like the Second Amendment in the U.S.

That's the big difference.  There are those that are even opposed to background checks because they insist it infringes on the Second Amendment.


----------



## Traveler (Mar 26, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> As a follow up''' govt' says there are approx. 300 million guns in the USA. now un-scientifically, I checked around my small town and found a ratio of roughly 10 unregistered guns to every 4 that are registered. Do the math, I would say that equates to an awful lot of guns. Therefore my question would be... how do you roundup all those weapons that exist in the USA? Do you send out brown shirts to take them by force? Pass a law that say's "turn em in or else" Also, how do you stop the fact that a gun is man made item and can be built by anyone who so desires.  I would have to say time would be better spent to find out why nobody did their job rather than try to make this an NRA problem. While on that subject, can someone please name an NRA member who has gone ballistic and  committed a mass shooting. Don't think you can.
> What little I could stomach of the "protest march" chilled me when I listened to children saying the constitution is an out dated document that should be discarded. That alone should frighten every law abiding citizen just to think that young ones are being brainwashed into this kind of thinking.




I absolutely agree.  The leftist wacko's have been trying to disarm us for decades. If and when the 2nd Amendment is repealed, that will be the end of America. We will be totally at the mercy of the thugs running around loose in our streets and the wacko's in our own government. You think home invasions are bad now ? Just wait and see what's coming.


----------



## 911 (Mar 27, 2018)

One thing that I haven't seen posted here, but I probably just missed reading it is that there are still a great many Uzi's out there, even today. Also, the H&K, MP-5 is still available, although not fully automatic (legally) like the military uses. These weapons are for real and can kill many more in the same amount of time as an AR-15. 

I remember back in the mid '90's that there was a paper (newspaper style) that was being distributed by a small company in Tennessee, that sold such items as changeover kits for the AK-47 from semi to fully automatic and the same for the Uzi's. Here's a video of what I am speaking about and while your watching it, just think if one of these nut jobs that are doing school, mall, nightclub shootings and etc., would get their hands on one, just what kind of body count we would be talking about.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 27, 2018)

Warrigal said:


> Again I say, there is not a total ban in Australia. There is national registration and a licensing system that becomes more restrictive for certain categories of firearm. It also applies to other weapons, including knives, swords and martial arts items.
> 
> Not all gun owners think the same way. Most are accepting of regulations that impose limits on carnage, especially of children in their classrooms. Only the very selfish consider unfettered freedom to be worth the lives of their children and grandchildren. Or the lives of the children of their neighbours.



You're right, of course. My bad.


----------



## Shalimar (Mar 27, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> Again, the point has been missed. If you ban one type of gun for it's semi-auto capability, or removable magazines
> you have all others covered by the same blanket. So, does the govt just ban the ATI mfg gun because you can remove the magazine. Well then what's to stop another company from offering the same style gun?  On a side note, that particular ATI is only 22 caliber, but was designed to be an exact replica of an mp5 right down to the same weight and a fat 9mm style magazine even though the 22's look lost in there. That allows it to be used for training of law enforcement world wide including our swat units.
> 
> You're also confusing this with an AR-15 style rifle which can be fitted with a bump stock. As far as I can find, no such option exists for an ATI GSG 22 cal. Of yeah, my JC Higgins 22 has a scope on it. (and is the terror of every squirrel around my place)


Poor squirrels, RIP.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 27, 2018)

Vengeance is mine, sayeth the squirrels.


----------



## ClassicRockr (Mar 27, 2018)

Have to agree with 911, about the UZI. Very dangerous weapon, but everyone continues to discuss the AR.


----------



## squatting dog (Mar 27, 2018)

Earlier 911 was wondering about the info on number of guns in the country. Well, my unscientific data was made by using my current home state statistics. See chart below.


----------



## Camper6 (Mar 27, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> It's technically a Democratic Republic.
> 
> ... oops ... political talk ... bad Phil ... baaad ...



Basically a Republic with a Democratic form of government.

Meaning you give your vote to a representative to do with as he or she likes. That's Democracy.


----------



## Camper6 (Mar 27, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Have to agree with 911, about the UZI. Very dangerous weapon, but everyone continues to discuss the AR.



Only because they have set records for mass shootings with a rifle.

There was absolutely no protection from the Vegas shooter.  A handgun was useless.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 27, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Basically a Republic with a Democratic form of government.
> 
> Meaning you give your vote to a representative to do with as he or she likes. That's Democracy.



Right. 

And I won't say anything else about it - can't get into politics.


----------



## BobF (Mar 27, 2018)

It seems to be that far too many are confused about our gun laws and which guns are definitely illegal.

Simple, all guns firing AUTO MATIC are illegal by todays laws.   Those look alike or named alike to military assault weapons are definitley semi automatic or illegal to sell and use.   Just far too much wrong information going around in these youth meetings.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 27, 2018)

BobF said:


> It seems to be that far too many are confused about our gun laws and which guns are definitely illegal.
> 
> Simple, all guns firing AUTO MATIC are illegal by todays laws.   Those look alike or named alike to military assault weapons are definitley semi automatic or illegal to sell and use.   Just far too much wrong information going around in these youth meetings.



If only it were that simple. 

There are plenty of loopholes in the laws, such as an automatic weapon manufactured before 1986 is LEGAL to own (albeit with a lot more paperwork). 

According to Fed data there are more than 630,000 such guns floating around the country. 

And even though bump stocks are being outlawed, there are still many _other_ modifications that a gun enthusiast can easily make to their weapon to make it full auto.


----------



## Camper6 (Mar 27, 2018)

BobF said:


> It seems to be that far too many are confused about our gun laws and which guns are definitely illegal.
> 
> Simple, all guns firing AUTO MATIC are illegal by todays laws.   Those look alike or named alike to military assault weapons are definitley semi automatic or illegal to sell and use.   Just far too much wrong information going around in these youth meetings.



Not really illegal.  You can still get one if you want to.  It's just grandfathered.


----------



## john19485 (Mar 27, 2018)

Anyone that puts their mind to it  can make an AR-15, its not that hard, or rocket launcher
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-automatic-rifle-building-party/


----------



## ClassicRockr (Mar 27, 2018)

Forgot to say this, don't know if these are sold at the Denver, Colorado Gun Show that we went to when living in the area, but we were extremely stunned and shocked to see a Grenade Launcher and 50 caliber Deck Mounted Machine Gun for sale there. We were told that both fully worked.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 27, 2018)

Flamethrowers are legal too ...


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## 911 (Mar 27, 2018)

We had a man in Allegheny County (Pittsburgh area) that was holding his family hostage with an Uzi back in the early 80’s. I was ordered to serve as a backup and to help evacuate the neighbors. This is at 11:30 at night. Of course, when you knock on a door and a man answers the door and you tell him that he must get his family together and leave the area, he has a lot of questions. Why? Do we need to take clothes? How long will we be gone? And so on. 

This is was a 6-hour stand-off. Finally, his mom talked him out of his house. We cuffed him and took him to the local hospital and cuffed him to his gurney. Then,  the local police came in and took over. A long night, but no one was hurt. When we checked the Uzi, it was fully loaded and the safety was off. He also had about another 2000 rounds sitting on the living room floor.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 27, 2018)

911 said:


> We had a man in Allegheny County (Pittsburgh area) that was holding his family hostage with an Uzi back in the early 80’s. I was ordered to serve as a backup and to help evacuate the neighbors. This is at 11:30 at night. Of course, when you knock on a door and a man answers the door and you tell him that he must get his family together and leave the area, he has a lot of questions. Why? Do we need to take clothes? How long will we be gone? And so on.
> 
> This is was a 6-hour stand-off. Finally, his mom talked him out of his house. We cuffed him and took him to the local hospital and cuffed him to his gurney. Then,  the local police came in and took over. A long night, but no one was hurt. When we checked the Uzi, it was fully loaded and the safety was off. He also had about another 2000 rounds sitting on the living room floor.



My hat is off to you, sir - you did jobs I doubt I could ever do.


----------



## ClassicRockr (Mar 27, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> My hat is off to you, sir - you did jobs I doubt I could ever do.



Totally agree. 

Thing is, I could have been in law enforcement and, most likely, would've been like Dirty Harry..........the "don't give me no crap" type. But, that would've been back in the 70's and 80's. Definitely not this "day and age".


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 27, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> Thing is, I could have been in law enforcement and, most likely, would've been like Dirty Harry..........the "don't give me no crap" type. But, that would've been back in the 70's and 80's. Definitely not this "day and age".



I know what you mean. I could never take any gruff from a perp - I would have belted them down fast. 

"Make my day"


----------



## BobF (Mar 27, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Not really illegal.  You can still get one if you want to.  It's just grandfathered.



And that is the problem with the direction being taken by those young folks.   They will never be able to take all guns away so the schools will remain a target for a mental person on a rage.

Best to forget the guns and start protecting the public from gun nuts.   In schools we need to position gun trained persons, cops or teachers will do.  Let the public know that assaults in schools will be a suicidal act by the gunners.    That in itself will deter many nuts.   Defense forces will definitely reduce the mass numbers.

It is not the gun that matters but the safety for the public is what counts.   Which is one element not being talked about at these poorly directed marches.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 27, 2018)

BobF said:


> And that is the problem with the direction being taken by those young folks.   They will never be able to take all guns away so the schools will remain a target for a mental person on a rage.
> 
> Best to for get the guns and start protecting the public from gun nuts.   In schools we need to position gun trained person, cops or teachers will do.  Let the public know that assaults in schools will be a suicidal act by the gunners.
> 
> It is not the gun that matters but the safety for the public is what counts.   Which is one element not being talked about at these poorly directed marches.



But isn't that solution just an escalation?

Post guards with guns in the schools to deter a shooter, then you'll start having _teams_ of shooters. 

Or they'll switch to explosives (I'm surprised that hasn't happened yet).


----------



## ClassicRockr (Mar 27, 2018)

bobf said:


> and that is the problem with the direction being taken by those young folks.   They will never be able to take all guns away so the schools will remain a target for a mental person on a rage.
> 
> Best to forget the guns and start protecting the public from gun nuts.   In schools we need to position gun trained persons, cops or teachers will do.  Let the public know that assaults in schools will be a suicidal act by the gunners.    That in itself will deter many nuts.   Defense forces will definitely reduce the mass numbers.
> 
> It is not the gun that matters but the safety for the public is what counts.   Which is one element not being talked about at these poorly directed marches.



yes, yes, yes!!


----------



## Camper6 (Mar 27, 2018)

BobF said:


> And that is the problem with the direction being taken by those young folks.   They will never be able to take all guns away so the schools will remain a target for a mental person on a rage.
> 
> Best to forget the guns and start protecting the public from gun nuts.   In schools we need to position gun trained persons, cops or teachers will do.  Let the public know that assaults in schools will be a suicidal act by the gunners.    That in itself will deter many nuts.   Defense forces will definitely reduce the mass numbers.
> 
> It is not the gun that matters but the safety for the public is what counts.   Which is one element not being talked about at these poorly directed marches.



The idea is not to take all the guns away.  That's what the gun lobby keeps promoting.

The idea is to mitigate the slaughters that have been taking place and the innocents being killed.

It's not the gun, it's the shooter isn't working obviously.

The gun is part of the picture.  It can't be simply dismissed.

It's really said when you have to hire trained persons to protect school children.


----------



## Big Horn (Mar 27, 2018)

ANFO (ammonium nitrate mixed with fuel oil or kerosene) is an explosive moderate energy and requires a blasting cap and a primary explosive to detonate.  However, ammonium nitrate mixed with gasoline is far more energetic and can be detonated with a firecracker.  Now someone may say, "But gasoline has a strong smell.  People would smell it and report someone carrying a bomb of that sort."  Replacing the gasoline with Coleman Fuel is the solution as it's deodorized.  It works just as well.  No firecracker?  It's easy enough to make black powder and fuse at home.

No access to any of the above?  Here's what a ten year old boy did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_the_Angels_School_fire#Investigation


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## Camper6 (Mar 27, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> ANFO (ammonium nitrate mixed with fuel oil or kerosene) is an explosive moderate energy and requires a blasting cap and a primary explosive to detonate.  However, ammonium nitrate mixed with gasoline is far more energetic and can be detonated with a firecracker.  Now someone may say, "But gasoline has a strong smell.  People would smell it and report someone carrying a bomb of that sort."  Replacing the gasoline with Coleman Fuel is the solution as it's deodorized.  It works just as well.  No firecracker?  It's easy enough to make black powder and fuse at home.
> 
> No access to any of the above?  Here's what a ten year old boy did.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_the_Angels_School_fire#Investigation



Purchases of those products do attract attention now compared to previously.


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## Big Horn (Mar 27, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Purchases of those products do attract attention now compared to previously.


 Which of the products I mentioned would attract the slightest notice?  The ten year old could get matches anywhere.  His fuel was already in the trash.


----------



## BobF (Mar 27, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> The idea is not to take all the guns away.  That's what the gun lobby keeps promoting.
> 
> The idea is to mitigate the slaughters that have been taking place and the innocents being killed.
> 
> ...





> The idea is not to take all the guns away.  That's what the gun lobby keeps promoting.



To me I would think the gun lobby is for protecting the guns, not for reducing the population at all.


> The idea is to mitigate the slaughters that have been taking place and the innocents being killed.



Exactly why we need armed guards at public events and especially in our schools.



> The idea is to mitigate the slaughters that have been taking place and the innocents being killed.
> 
> It's not the gun, it's the shooter isn't working obviously.



Quite true in many cases.    This is why armed guards would be so effective.   No time for a shooter to keep shooting till as many as piossible are dead.

Interesting that in most countries knives are the principle killing tool.   I will need to follow up on that idea.


----------



## Camper6 (Mar 27, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> Which of the products I mentioned would attract the slightest notice?  The ten year old could get matches anywhere.  His fuel was already in the trash.



A kid buying gasoline and matches wouldn't attract notice?

Not where I come from. Even buying fertilizer now attracts attention.


----------



## Camper6 (Mar 27, 2018)

BobF said:


> To me I would think the gun lobby is for protecting the guns, not for reducing the population at all.



Unfortunately thats not working





> Exactly why we need armed guards at public events and especially in our schools.



Needing armed guards is a sign of the problem. No armed guards when I went to school. Why now?



> Quite true in many cases.    This is why armed guards would be so effective.   No time for a shooter to keep shooting till as many as piossible are dead.



If you are lucky and the damage hasn't already taken place.



> Interesting that in most countries knives are the principle killing tool.   I will need to follow up on that idea.



Not in mass murders. I would take my chances of survival knife vs gun anytime. We really should not care about other countries.


----------



## Camper6 (Mar 27, 2018)

Linda said:


> I guess I'm seeing this from a different view point than a lot of people.  Also I am ONLY talking about the student walk outs and rallies.  From what I'm hearing BULLYING is behind a lot of the school shootings.  I realize ALL school shootings are done by sick, mentally ill people, but I think they've been bullied.
> 
> So it seems to me that instead of walking out of school and participating in a rally a lot more would be accomplished if those kids would keep their behinds in school and vow to go a whole day without bullying one single person!  If that were done, I think a lot more good would transpire.  Unless you have been bullied you have no idea how harmful it is.  Also it's not just students doing it, there are a few (only a few) teachers being bullies also.
> 
> ...



I think the main thrust of the protest is against mass shootings that are taking place in schools and other places and it's not with handguns like your 357 magnum for self protection.

The weapon of choice in these mass shootings seems to be a semi automatic rifle with a huge magazine capable of killing multiple victims without reloading.

I'm venturing to guess that many of those students protesting have weapons at home that their parents bought.


----------



## Camper6 (Mar 27, 2018)

john19485 said:


> Anyone that puts their mind to it  can make an AR-15, its not that hard, or rocket launcher
> https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-automatic-rifle-building-party/



It's simpler to buy one.  Legally.


----------



## Camper6 (Mar 27, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I absolutely agree.  The leftist wacko's have been trying to disarm us for decades. If and when the 2nd Amendment is repealed, that will be the end of America. We will be totally at the mercy of the thugs running around loose in our streets and the wacko's in our own government. You think home invasions are bad now ? Just wait and see what's coming.



That is such an extreme analysis. To repeal the 2nd Amendment is not that simple.


----------



## Shalimar (Mar 27, 2018)

Recent statistics indicate that half of schoolchildren experience bullying at some point during their school years. Also, kids tend to bully other kids, few can honestly say they have never engaged in some level of pack mentality. I think it obfuscates the problem to suggest that children may be partially to blame for such hideous tragedies.


----------



## Big Horn (Mar 27, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> A kid buying gasoline and matches wouldn't attract notice?


Not a gallon can of Coleman Fuel at Walmart or a box of wood matches.  It's a normal combination for a stove or lantern.



Camper6 said:


> Not where I come from. Even buying fertilizer now attracts attention.


100# would attract notice.  5# wouldn't.  I'd put it with other groceries. Cashiers at Walmart aren't paying any attention to what customers buy.  No cashier would remember an adult or teenager.  Remember that the ten year old had only to find matches.  The fuel was already there.  He killed 95 people.  If he had had to buy a box at a convenience store the clerk wouldn't have remembered two minutes later.

The Austin bomber bought his supplies at Home Depot.  He probably made several trips to several stores.

Do you fertilize house plants?  Do you fill your camping stove or lantern.  If you don't there are still plenty of people who do.  If you don't have matches or a Bic lighter in your home you are a rare person.


----------



## 911 (Mar 28, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> Earlier 911 was wondering about the info on number of guns in the country. Well, my unscientific data was made by using my current home state statistics. See chart below.



Yeah, I like it and is probably true.


----------



## Camper6 (Mar 28, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> Not a gallon can of Coleman Fuel at Walmart or a box of wood matches.  It's a normal combination for a stove or lantern.
> 
> 100# would attract notice.  5# wouldn't.  I'd put it with other groceries. Cashiers at Walmart aren't paying any attention to what customers buy.  No cashier would remember an adult or teenager.  Remember that the ten year old had only to find matches.  The fuel was already there.  He killed 95 people.  If he had had to buy a box at a convenience store the clerk wouldn't have remembered two minutes later.
> 
> ...



We are talking kids and we are talking huge quantities.

They do attract the attention now they didn't before.


----------



## ClassicRockr (Mar 28, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> We are talking kids and we are talking huge quantities.
> 
> They do attract the attention now they didn't before.



Age wise? Why am I asking..........I think Big Horn could be talking about older teens, perhaps those that recently graduated high school. If they age goes into a Home Depot to buy fertilizer, seriously doubt anyone going to question the kid. 

Seriously don't think a major big store, like Home Depot, wants to get into trouble, or even sued, for reporting someone young that is picking up something for his parents lawn or garden. But, never know.


----------



## BobF (Mar 28, 2018)

There is something wrong with our culture these days.    No respect for anyone or themselves or our country.    No matter what the issue might be it just needs to have a lot of folks linking their arms and chanting pointless ideas together.

Has any one looked into the Swiss ways and tried to understand how they each have weapons and can take them with them on buses or trains or into restaurants and home.    They seem to have the necessary principles for the weapons and must have a decent system that does not allow killer attitudes to be running freely.   That is more like the way we once lived in the US too.    For the Swiss it is about self defense and military duty as they grow up to adulthood.   Maybe something there for the US to emulate.   Maybe a couple years of strict military training would help put maturity into the minds of our people.

The Swiss are doing exactly what the US is wanting to do, but in a slightly different way.    And it has been working for them for hundreds of years.   Their maturity started way back when horses were popular.   Swords and knives were the weapons of battle but now they have armed vehicles and use cannons, rifles, pistols, keep them at home.


----------



## Warrigal (Mar 28, 2018)

BobF said:


> And that is the problem with the direction being taken by those young folks.   They will never be able to take all guns away so the schools will remain a target for a mental person on a rage.
> 
> Best to forget the guns and start protecting the public from gun nuts.   In schools we need to position gun trained persons, cops or teachers will do.  Let the public know that assaults in schools will be a suicidal act by the gunners.    That in itself will deter many nuts.   Defense forces will definitely reduce the mass numbers.
> 
> It is not the gun that matters but the safety for the public is what counts.   Which is one element not being talked about at these poorly directed marches.


How many positions would have to be covered in a typical high school? To cover just yard duty at recess times I had to roster four staff at a time to cover all of the outside areas that the kids had access to. I did not worry about any out of bounds areas or the school buildings at those times. There would still need to be someone on guard at the school gates/building entrances to avoid someone sneaking in and hiding somewhere.

Surveillance cameras in every corridor, classroom and toilet block? Is this how schools should be forced to operate?


----------



## Warrigal (Mar 28, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Age wise? Why am I asking..........I think Big Horn could be talking about older teens, perhaps those that recently graduated high school. If they age goes into a Home Depot to buy fertilizer, seriously doubt anyone going to question the kid.
> 
> Seriously don't think a major big store, like Home Depot, wants to get into trouble, or even sued, for reporting someone young that is picking up something for his parents lawn or garden. But, never know.


Ever heard of a poisons register where purchases of certain substances are bought in bulk? 
Also a register for ammonium fertilisers  and anything else needed to make high explosives? 
Items needed  to be noted in the register should not be available at stores such  as Walmart where keeping a resister is not feasible.

These registers are helpful in spotting someone who is stockpiling dangerous chemicals.


----------



## Warrigal (Mar 28, 2018)

BobF said:


> There is something wrong with our culture these days.    No respect for anyone or themselves or our country.    No matter what the issue might be it just needs to have a lot of folks linking their arms and chanting pointless ideas together.
> 
> Has any one looked into the Swiss ways and tried to understand how they each have weapons and can take them with them on buses or trains or into restaurants and home.    They seem to have the necessary principles for the weapons and must have a decent system that does not allow killer attitudes to be running freely.   That is more like the way we once lived in the US too.    For the Swiss it is about self defense and military duty as they grow up to adulthood.   Maybe something there for the US to emulate.   Maybe a couple years of strict military training would help put maturity into the minds of our people.
> 
> The Swiss are doing exactly what the US is wanting to do, but in a slightly different way.    And it has been working for them for hundreds of years.   Their maturity started way back when horses were popular.   Swords and knives were the weapons of battle but now they have armed vehicles and use cannons, rifles, pistols, keep them at home.


I call BS on the idea that the Swiss keep armed vehicles and cannons at home. Your move.


----------



## BobF (Mar 28, 2018)

Warrigal said:


> How many positions would have to be covered in a typical high school? To cover just yard duty at recess times I had to roster four staff at a time to cover all of the outside areas that the kids had access to. I did not worry about any out of bounds areas or the school buildings at those times. There would still need to be someone on guard at the school gates/building entrances to avoid someone sneaking in and hiding somewhere.
> 
> Surveillance cameras in every corridor, classroom and toilet block? Is this how schools should be forced to operate?



I don't remember anyone saying it would be an easy job.   So far, does your society show itself to be maniacs and want to be known as the countries most successful mass killer?

The job is to  keep any and all nutters from shooting up kids.   Each school district will have its own concerns and likely no two schools will be the same.   Having at least one armed person always available would be a start.   Having hired security guards would always be nice bit of budget broken then arming the staff would be helpful to say the least.

To  help the students get past the scared feelings it takes some good directions from the older folks.


----------



## BobF (Mar 29, 2018)

Warrigal said:


> I call BS on the idea that the Swiss keep armed vehicles and cannons at home. Your move.



My son has lived in the Swiss territories and tells of the following.   You attack my post as I was talking about being armed and taking them home.    You challenge the cannon at home so I will clarify by telling of one small building near some rural homes, as an example of public awareness.   It looks just like a barn near those family homes.   In case of problems the barn opens up and exposes a cannon for the local folks to use.   It may not be in a home but is so close that the home is still there for holding the machine guns the military has given most folks to train with and use in case of war.

What seems to be lost in the US is a dedication to the nation, our flag, the Constitution.   We have a lot of uneducated college level folks that rather stand with hands out expecting government handouts, rather than doing something grand for the country like get jobs as saviors of our young folks in public places.


----------



## BobF (Mar 29, 2018)

Warrigal, you may think what I post is just BS but that is likely because you have not done much look up on the Swiss.   Below is some that I have read up on and saved,   I have more and believe more can be had looking around on the web sources.

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/articles/guns-crime-swiss.html



Guns, Crime, and the Swiss
by Stephen P. Halbrook, Ph.D., J.D.


<Clip>


Actually, for those who think that target shooting is more fun than golf, Switzerland is anything but "dull." By car or by train, you see shooting ranges all over the country, but only a few golf courses. If there is a Schuetzenfest in town, you will find rifles slung on hat racks in restaurants, and you will encounter men and women, old and young, walking, biking, and taking the tram with rifles over the shoulder, to and from the range. They stroll right past the police station and no one bats an eye (in the U.S. a SWAT Team might do you in).


Tourists--especially those from Japan, where guns are banned to all but the police--think it's a revolution. But shooting is really just the national sport, although it has the deadly serious function of being the backbone of the national defense.


Although there is more per capita firepower in Switzerland than any place in the world, it is one of the safest places to be. To the delight of Americans who support the right to keep and bear arms, Switzerland is the proof in the pudding of the argument that guns don't cause crime.



<Clip>


When the first U.S. Congress met and turned to defense measures in 1791, Representative Jackson argued: "The inhabitants of Switzerland emancipated themselves by the establishment of a militia, which finally delivered them from the tyranny of their lords." A law was passed requiring every able-bodied citizen to provide himself with a firearm and enroll in the militia, and it stayed on the books for over a century.
.......................................


http://pages.prodigy.net/vanhooser/the_swiss_and_their_guns.htm


The Swiss and their Guns


By David B. Kopel and Stephen D'Andrilli
( American Rifleman February 1990 )


"What America can learn from Switzerland is that the best way to reduce gun misuse is to promote responsible gun ownership."


In the right to bear arms debate, pro-gun Americans point to Switzerland, where almost every adult male is legally required to possess a gun. One of the few nations with a higher per capita rate of gun ownership than the United States, Switzerland has virtually no gun crime. Therefore, argue the pro-gunners, America doesn't need gun control.


Yet Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI), in its brochure "Handgun Facts," points to Switzerland as one of the advanced nations with strict handgun laws." The brochure states that all guns are registered, and handgun purchases require a background check and a permit. Gun crime in Switzerland is virtually non-existent. Therefore, concludes Handgun Control, America needs strict gun control.


Who's right? As usual, Handgun Control is wrong, but that doesn't necessarily make the pro-gun side right. Gun ownership in Switzerland defies the simple categories of the American gun debate.  


Like America, Switzerland won its independence in a revolutionary war fought by an armed citizenry. In 1291, several cantons (states) began a war of national liberation against Austria's Hapsburg Empire. In legend, the revolution was precipitated by William Tell, although there is no definitive proof of his existence.


Over the next century, the Swiss militia liberated most Switzerland from the Austrians. The ordinary citizens who composed the militia used the deadliest assault weapons the time, swords and bows. Crucial to the Swiss victory was the motivation of the free Swiss troops.  


<Clip>


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## Camper6 (Mar 29, 2018)

The Swiss stayed neutral for two world wars. It was a political convenience. I do think the German army could have overrun them in a couple of days.


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## BobF (Mar 29, 2018)

Warrigal, more for all to see.   I did not look up those older links that my previous posts came from but I do think this newer link reads well and even backs up some things that you seem to have called BS.   I would expect you to know better from past experiences.

http://www.migflug.com/jetflights/hidden-swiss-air-force.html


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## Warrigal (Mar 29, 2018)

BobF said:


> Warrigal, more for all to see.   I did not look up those older links that my previous posts came from but I do think this newer link reads well and even backs up some things that you seem to have called BS.   I would expect you to know better from past experiences.
> 
> http://www.migflug.com/jetflights/hidden-swiss-air-force.html



:lol: You have my measure but it is Good Friday morning here now, I'm at my sister's homeand the family have just arrived for lunch. So, gotta go now


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## JB in SC (Apr 2, 2018)

There's not a solution that will stop people from killing others. What bothers me is why they are these young people doing it? What is causing them to have such evil existing in them to kill fellow students?

Further, what has changed in society to allow these folks to slip through the cracks? I can't say all, but most had a history of some type of severe mental issue. Even more troubling is that people had prior knowledge that the mental issues existed yet did nothing to circumvent them either purchasing firearms or gaining access to them. I mean seriously, if a family member is unstable why on earth would a household have firearms (Sandy Hook)?


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## Butterfly (Apr 2, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> Earlier 911 was wondering about the info on number of guns in the country. Well, my unscientific data was made by using my current home state statistics. See chart below.



New Mexico is probably about the same.  I don't know how anybody would get an accurate count of guns in the country  -- gun sales wouldn't show an accurate count of how many guns are out there, only how many were sold in any given year.  My state does not have registration for most weapons so nobody really knows how many are here and I doubt people would answer honestly if asked by the government if and how many weapons are in their possession.


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## Camper6 (Apr 3, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> There's not a solution that will stop people from killing others. What bothers me is why they are these young people doing it? What is causing them to have such evil existing in them to kill fellow students?
> 
> Further, what has changed in society to allow these folks to slip through the cracks? I can't say all, but most had a history of some type of severe mental issue. Even more troubling is that people had prior knowledge that the mental issues existed yet did nothing to circumvent them either purchasing firearms or gaining access to them. I mean seriously, if a family member is unstable why on earth would a household have firearms (Sandy Hook)?



Did you ever notice?  It's only males.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 3, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Did you ever notice?  It's only males.



Except for the one young female that used her .22 rifle, from her bedroom window, years ago.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 3, 2018)

I think, like this last dude that done the school shooting, people “think” too compassionately about some kid that has problems. 

This dude’s buddy convinced his parents to allow this killer to move in with them.....along with all of his firearms. 

Nothing like being overly compassionate and having it backfire on you!


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## Keesha (Apr 3, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> There's not a solution that will stop people from killing others. What bothers me is why they are these young people doing it? What is causing them to have such evil existing in them to kill fellow students?
> 
> Further, what has changed in society to allow these folks to slip through the cracks? I can't say all, but most had a history of some type of severe mental issue. Even more troubling is that people had prior knowledge that the mental issues existed yet did nothing to circumvent them either purchasing firearms or gaining access to them. I mean seriously, if a family member is unstable why on earth would a household have firearms (Sandy Hook)?



Whats changed? Seriously?
Perhaps it’s the fact that as a society we glamourize violence. 
Look at the movies people like to watch. We sensationalize violence and then wonder why our youth are so messed up.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 3, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Whats changed? Seriously?
> Perhaps it’s the fact that as a society we glamourize violence.
> Look at the movies people like to watch. We sensationalize violence and then wonder why our youth are so messed up.



In some ways, just can't blame things on movies and tv. While growing up, a lot of us watched the old Western's on tv that showed quite a bit of violence, such as the gunfight at the OK Corral. What about the Prohibition days and the St Valentine's Day Massacre


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## Keesha (Apr 3, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> In some ways, just can't blame things on movies and tv. While growing up, a lot of us watched the old Western's on tv that showed quite a bit of violence, such as the gunfight at the OK Corral. What about the Prohibition days and the St Valentine's Day Massacre


Oh I don’t just blame television. Honestly I don’t have the answer. I’ve never understood why people feel the need to use violence but then again I don’t really understand people. 
It seems that we live in a world where modern technology has superseded our moral compass.


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## Sunny (Apr 3, 2018)

> I mean seriously, if a family member is unstable why on earth would a household have firearms (Sandy Hook)?



JB, remember the famous George Carlin quote:  "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of the population is even stupider than that."


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## JB in SC (Apr 3, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> In some ways, just can't blame things on movies and tv. While growing up, a lot of us watched the old Western's on tv that showed quite a bit of violence, such as the gunfight at the OK Corral. What about the Prohibition days and the St Valentine's Day Massacre



I would be hard pressed to see a correlation as well. Millions watch violent films and play first person shooter games, only a tiny fraction of the population commit these acts. There's something in their psyche that triggers such action.


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## Keesha (Apr 3, 2018)

Sunny said:


> JB, remember the famous George Carlin quote:  "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of the population is even stupider than that."



:lofl: This sums it up perfectly.


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## Camper6 (Apr 3, 2018)

rgp said:


> Instead of taking away guns....how'bout we re-open the asylums ?



Lets do both.


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## Camper6 (Apr 3, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Except for the one young female that used her .22 rifle, from her bedroom window, years ago.



Yes and stupidity reared it's ugly head again.  That was a long time ago.  Nowadays she would have used a semi automatic rifle.

She asked for a radio for Christmas.  Her father bought her a gun instead.

But that's the only incident I can think of that a female was involved in a mass shooting like the ones we see now.


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## Big Horn (Apr 3, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Lets do both.


Remember when men never wished to be considered sissies?


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## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> Remember when men never wished to be considered sissies?


Canadian, Aussie,  and British men are far from sissies. The measure of a man does not lie in owning a semi automatic.


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## Camper6 (Apr 3, 2018)

Big Horn said:


> Remember when men never wished to be considered sissies?



Yes I remember and I also remember how much trouble it got me into. :lol:


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 3, 2018)

Never considered myself a “sissie” for-to-say, but can run a vacuum cleaner, dust, load-run-unload a dishwasher, do laundry and change bed sheets and a few other domestic things. Plus, saddle a horse, ride and rope cattle from it (20 years ago). I was into desk work and computers, not real hard physical work. I lasted three hours working for a fence building company and two hours putting up drywall with a buddy. He paid me for the two hours though. 

Wasn’t a “sissie” in the Navy either. My “battle station” was inside a 5” gun mount.


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## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Never considered myself a “sissie” for-to-say, but can run a vacuum cleaner, dust, load-run-unload a dishwasher, do laundry and change bed sheets and a few other domestic things. Plus, saddle a horse, ride and rope cattle from it (20 years ago). I was into desk work and computers, not real hard physical work. I lasted three hours working for a fence building company and two hours putting up drywall with a buddy. He paid me for the two hours though.
> 
> Wasn’t a “sissie” in the Navy either. My “battle station” was inside a 5” gun mount.


You are definitely not a sissy.


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## BobF (Apr 9, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Yes I remember and I also remember how much trouble it got mEx[nto. :lol:



Experience is a good instructor.


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