# Missing Girls Found in Ohio



## SeaBreeze (May 8, 2013)

Did you hear on the news about those 3 girls in Ohio that were missing for 10 years or so, and they were found in a basement of three 50 year old brothers?  The one girl had a baby down there, now a 6 year old child.  Nice reminder for those two that the father is one of these sick monsters *&%#@!   I guess they were chained and beaten, among other things, in the dark for all those years.   Glad they were able to get out of there though, but it's so sad.  They say there was some disturbed soil in the yard, so there may be more girls buried there.  They say at one point a naked woman was seen in the yard, wonder if she had a pulse.


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## That Guy (May 8, 2013)

Shocking news but a good ending with their rescue.  News says the cops were called to the house a number of times, knocked on the door and left when no one answered.  Those creepy bastards are the scum of society and there are just far too many of them slinking around.


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## Anne (May 8, 2013)

So many times the news media reports things whether they are rumors or truth, just to be first with the story, I guess.    I'm wondering how much of what we've heard is true; as far as the cops being called before and not responding, or following up.

It's highly disturbing that they got away with this for so long - maybe the girls were moved around in all those years??   Bad enough we don't know our neighbors these days, but to have this going on so close, and not know...I think if the neighbors had gotten together, they might have figured out something was very wrong in that house.  

Normally, I'd be the last to say 'It takes a village', but things like this make me wonder if we shouldn't watch out for each other a bit more.....


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## Planxty (May 8, 2013)

I just hope that being back with their loved ones will allow them to put a wall against all that has occurred. I wish them all i can and hope one day happiness and security in their lives.


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## SifuPhil (May 8, 2013)

This was scarily close to a "Buffalo Bill" sort of scenario (as portrayed in "Silence of the Lambs"). I'm glad they were finally discovered and hope the brothers get their just rewards.


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## SeaBreeze (May 8, 2013)

I agree Planxty, I hope they can get over this and live fairly normal and happy lives with their families there for support. Unfortunately, they already have had to beg the new media and others to give them a chance to breathe, and have some well-deserved privacy.

Too bad these things happen to women and children (both boys and girls) so often.  Most women live their lives fearing they may be kidnapped, raped, tortured or killed, that's not right, especially in the USA!   What's up with the men nowadays???  Legalize prostitution, let them pick up some women who will fulfill their S&M dreams, and leave these innocent children and women alone!


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## Anne (May 8, 2013)

I'm not sure that legalizing prostitution would stop this type of crime.  It's often about power, not sex, and that's why they prey on the young and vulnerable.  Something is really wrong with our society as a whole, and there seems to be more and more people who are sociopaths, or just plain have no soul.

I too, hope these ladies can somehow find peace, and not live the rest of their lives in fear and distrust.


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## SifuPhil (May 8, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> ... Too bad these things happen to women and children (both boys and girls) so often.  Most women live their lives fearing they may be kidnapped, raped, tortured or killed, that's not right, especially in the USA!



If they are indeed living their lives that way then it's a shame, because it's the equivalent of hiding in your basement because you think Comet Kohoutek is coming around again soon. 

I know much has been made of the stats - supposedly official, like ABC Nightline's story on 1 out of 4 female college students being raped before they graduate - but even though the story is based on DOJ stats I wonder if those stats haven't been amplified or "massaged" in order to make a better story. 

I'm sorry, but I just don't SEE this number of rapes in everyday life. I've had this discussion on my martial arts forums as well, concerning violent assaults: everyone is screaming that the numbers are going up, but I don't see it on the street. 

I know this won't be a popular position to take, but it's how I see it.



> What's up with the men nowadays???  Legalize prostitution, let them pick up some women who will fulfill their S&M dreams, and leave these innocent children and women alone!



"S&M dreams" are, I think, QUITE different than what these guys were doing, so I question whether legalization of prostitution would help much. Besides, the rare hooker that agrees to S&M play is going to be charging _much_ more than your average pro, so that wouldn't necessarily be a solution. 

It wasn't a question of _sex_, whether straight or bent; it was a question of _deviancy, _of power and of violence, of kidnapping and unlawful restraint.


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## SeaBreeze (May 8, 2013)

True Sifu...I've never been raped, and anyone who overstepped his bounds when I was a teenager, was quickly put in his place.  Even today, I won't go down without a fight, and have walked alone in the streets and in the wilderness with the same attitude.  Even without an 'equalizer', I'll be giving it my all to protect my life.  

You're right, it's a matter of power, violence, and other things involved.  Since these guys were still eating at McDonalds, they wouldn't have the cash to pay for their sick needs.


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## SifuPhil (May 8, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> True Sifu...I've never been raped, and anyone who overstepped his bounds when I was a teenager, was quickly put in his place.  Even today, I won't go down without a fight, and have walked alone in the streets and in the wilderness with the same attitude.  Even without an 'equalizer', I'll be giving it my all to protect my life.



And that's how MANY women are, especially in this modern age of empowerment and ready information. That is how I think EVERYONE should carry themselves. Which in turn makes me wonder how these girls were taken in the first place - whether through force or psychological coercion. I don't mean to sound like a sicko myself, I'm just interested from the viewpoint of self-defense training.



> You're right, it's a matter of power, violence, and other things involved.  Since these guys were still eating at McDonalds, they wouldn't have the cash to pay for their sick needs.



I'm just amazed that the neighbor never tipped to the girls' existence, what with the barbeques and everything else.

I guess it's true that the Devil lives among us ...


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## That Guy (May 9, 2013)

From what I've read about the neighborhood, it's not a surprise that the cops did little.  What has me confused is why the brothers are considered not involved . . . ???!!!


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## SifuPhil (May 9, 2013)

And now they're talking about Neighbor Dude being a former domestic violence felon ... 

And Guy, you're right - typical Cleveland neighborhood, I think - hate to say it but it looks a lot like mine ...

I don't know if these girls/women developed Stockholm Syndrome, but I just can't imagine how they could remain imprisoned for TEN YEARS ...


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## Knightofalbion (May 9, 2013)

Poor, poor girls....

It makes you wonder how many other 'missing' girls are in the same predicament right now...

The inhumanity of man.


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## That Guy (May 9, 2013)

Unfortunately, Ozarkgal, if we subject these horrible people to cruel and unusual punishment it makes us no better than they.  I think we all agree that returning our society back to the dark ages, as some ridiculous cultures around the globe seem to desire, is not in our best interest.  I say, after a fair and expeditious trial, execution is the only answer.  We have no use for them and they have given up the privilege of living.


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## SifuPhil (May 9, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Unfortunately, Ozarkgal, if we subject these horrible people to cruel and unusual punishment it makes us no better than they.  I think we all agree that returning our society back to the dark ages, as some ridiculous cultures around the globe seem to desire, is not in our best interest.  I say, after a fair and expeditious trial, execution is the only answer.  We have no use for them and they have given up the privilege of living.



Ah, I see we have encountered a fork in the road ...

Lemme see if I can 'splain my way of seeing things like this, and maybe you can understand why I feel the way I do.

"Cruel and unusual" is what those three brothers did to those girls. THEY made the first move in the "battle", and _they_ decided the rules of engagement. Therefore, I don't see how it lowers us down by giving the same back to them. 

Something I always taught my self-defense students: when you deal with street scum, you have to BECOME street scum. You don't sit there astride your high moral horse, thinking you're better than them and refusing to react - you deal with them THE ONLY WAY THEY UNDERSTAND - on THEIR level.

They WILL fear _that_. 

We already ARE NOT better than them - we're all humans, right? What will a trial accomplish, except give fuel for the next whackadoo that wants to do this, or worse, give some shyster lawyers the opportunity to get them off? They'll claim that these poor men were themselves abused as children, and they're only acting out that abuse now, and they aren't responsible for what they did, and they need help ...

... and they will laugh into the cameras ...

... and our tax dollars will just keep getting burned up in the process ...

*MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF THEM*.  Do something to them so horrific, so unforgettable, so cruel and unusual, that the public NEVER forgets what happens to sub-humans like this. Draw them and quarter them, and put the resulting pieces in the four corners of Cleveland. It worked for piracy in the 18th and 19th centuries, and it will work again. 

We seem to differ only in _methods_ - our _end results_ are the same. You want to treat sub-humans as humans; I want to treat them as the low-level organisms that they are.  I'm sure we can come to an accord on this matter.

Yours in Punishment,
Marquis de Phillipe


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## That Guy (May 9, 2013)

Believe me.  I learned to kill or be killed.  But, I will not lower myself to the atrocities I've witnessed.  Annihilate them with extreme prejudice? Yes!  Become as them?  Never!

Lock 'n' load, brother.  You got first watch.


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## SeaBreeze (May 9, 2013)

I agree with Ozarkgal and SifuPhil.  I've said for many years now, to punish creeps like this with the EXACT same torture/abuse that they're guilty of.  If jokers like this know that they will have to endure all the sick things they do to others, up to and including murder...maybe they'll think twice before they dish it out.  If anything, they'll not be so extreme with their beatings and treatment of their victims...knowing if they get caught, that will be THEIR fate.


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## That Guy (May 9, 2013)

People, people, people.  What am I going to do with you?  One more time for those of you in the back.  If we do to these worthless wastes of space as bad or worse than they gave, we are no better.  I repeat!  It makes us no better! ARE YOU LISTENING???  Do you understand the meaning of a civilized society?  Keeerist, you are beginning to behave as an out of control angry mob.  Me and the sheriff are gonna stand here all night if that's what it takes to keep you and your ropes away from the accused.  I want them dealt with, too, but not in any way that lessens us a people.  OMG!  It's the end of the world as we know it and I ain't feelin' so fine...

Damn, I hate protecting these assholes from the likes of people cum animals but, step any closer and I will unload on you.


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## SeaBreeze (May 9, 2013)

Lol!  Listen to me now and hear me later.   You'll need a bigger peashooter than that to unload on this crowd!  It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fiiine. :jammin:


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## SifuPhil (May 9, 2013)

Hee, hee ... I started a riot and now I'm safely tucked in eating Cheetos and drinking warm milk.

*waves at madding crowd*

Hi, guys! Give 'em one for me! 


Vengeance and revenge at the hands of a crowd, or punishment at the hands of a judge and jury - what's the difference? 

Satisfaction, and making an example to others of their ilk. And _real_ punishment.

Judges have been shown to be crooked; lawyers the same. Jury of peers? Don't make me laugh! Following That Guy's own rules, we could never CREATE a jury of their peers, since we're so far above them. 

And let's just say, just for fun's sake, that a "guilty" verdict is returned, after weeks and months of deliberations, mis-trials, re-schedulings ... OK ... they're shipped off to a Fed pen somewhere. They get 3 hots and a cot, they get their "prisoner's rights" protected, they get to watch cable TV and use the 'Net and read the papers ... they have nothing but time to work on their appeals ... all thanks to our tax dollars. They'll probably warrent their own cell block because of the "sensitive nature of their crimes", so they'll be living like the Mob guys in _Goodfellas ... _

THAT'S justice? 

I've always believed that there are 3 classes of people. The majority are the Sheeple, grazing everyday unaware. The Wolves wait off in the dark distance, biding their time until a Sheeple wanders too far from civilization. 

The SheepDogs are the ones who hold the line between the two. How do they do it? They gently guide the Sheeple back into safety, but when they encounter a Wolf they show no mercy, no justice, no fair process of law, no trial - they simply rip their throats out. That way they KNOW that THAT particular wolf won't be bothering the flock anymore.


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## That Guy (May 9, 2013)

I ain't agreeing with the legal shame as it stands today; ie OJ...   I want these scumbags executed immediately AFTER a fair and swift trial.  Lord of the Flies come to mind, anyone?


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## That Guy (May 9, 2013)

I disagree with letting victims and family have a role in the judicial system.  Yes, the system is in shambles but let's stop the crooked judges, lawyers and cops not hand things over to the general population.  As civility is fading, I would rather be a bastion for order than a puppet of anarchy.  And, trust me, handing legal system decisions over to civilians is opening the door to anarchy.


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## That Guy (May 9, 2013)




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## SeaBreeze (May 9, 2013)

How about this piece of $hit, whose execution is finally set after 20 years of us paying to give him 3 hots and a cot....and they're STILL trying to get him off!  He said that killing those people who worked in that restaurant felt better than sex, and they were all stupid anyway...but wait...maybe he had an undiagnosed disorder at the time, and Gov. Hickenlooper feels sooo bad having to make the decision to execute this poor baby....paleeeese!  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...sed-bipolar-disorder-lawyer-article-1.1336967.  These families deserve there (too) long awaited justice!


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## Ozarkgal (May 9, 2013)

That Guy,

No where on here do I see anyone advocating frontier justice such as lynch mobs...Maybe you could explain your theory as to why anarchy would occur if victims of crime were somehow incorporated into the sentencing phase of a trial...we have gone so overboard on politically correct happy horse**** in this country that most people wouldn't gag if they had a mouth full of it, and the criminal vultures are constantly take advantage of it.  The pendulum needs to start swinging in the other direction, and soon or you will be right about anarchy.


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## Ozarkgal (May 9, 2013)

a





SeaBreeze said:


> How about this piece of $hit, whose execution is finally set after 20 years of us paying to give him 3 hots and a cot....and they're STILL trying to get him off!  He said that killing those people who worked in that restaurant felt better than sex, and they were all stupid anyway...but wait...maybe he had an undiagnosed disorder at the time, and Gov. Hickenlooper feels sooo bad having to make the decision to execute this poor baby....paleeeese!  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...sed-bipolar-disorder-lawyer-article-1.1336967.  These families deserve there (too) long awaited justice!



What swamp do these politicians crawl out of?  If loopy Hickenlooper thinks that's as hard as it get, he should try being a parent of one of those kids.  A typical example of a politcian being out of touch with reality, buying into a slimeball lawyer's seedy defense of his client having undiagnosed bipolar disease 20 years ago...how ya gonna prove that!!

So sorry you're stuck with such an idiot for a gov SeaBreeze..not the first time I've heard of his antics.  Better luck next election time.


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## SifuPhil (May 10, 2013)

I would NEVER advocate lynch mobs. 

The main problem with them is that they aren't very efficient and there are too many witnesses. layful:

_One_ person - one specially-trained, highly-motivated person - that's all it takes. Think _Batman_, but with knives and bullets. 

You'd see crime rates drop immediately if THAT system of justice was implemented. 

As the others have said, due process is a joke now. It's so far from what it was _meant_ to be that it's no longer recognizable. It's bread and circuses, nothing else. Sure, if by some miracle they could fix the system I'd be the biggest supporter, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. 

The small town that I live in still practices law the way it's been practiced here for decades - old-boy clubs, pay-offs, crooked politicians and nasty power-tripping cops. It's a travesty of justice. Yet the people meekly submit to it - they've been conditioned to accept it as "business as usual". They actually do not see anything wrong with it.

And the younger generation that DOES see the problems doesn't hang around to try to fix them, because they know they aren't fixable - they just leave town as soon as possible.


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## SeaBreeze (May 10, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> a
> 
> What swamp do these politicians crawl out of?  If loopy Hickenlooper thinks that's as hard as it get, he should try being a parent of one of those kids.  A typical example of a politcian being out of touch with reality, buying into a slimeball lawyer's seedy defense of his client having undiagnosed bipolar disease 20 years ago...how ya gonna prove that!!
> 
> So sorry you're stuck with such an idiot for a gov SeaBreeze..not the first time I've heard of his antics.  Better luck next election time.



I'm sure he's more worried that if he allows the execution, he'll lose favor in the eyes of some of his political buddies and supporters, the hell with the people that were killed and their families.  They'll get over it...but he has to brighten his path in life so he can be president one day, with enough $$$$$ and filth behind him.   Even without the bipolar scam, he would never want to take the life of anyone, it's just not a nice thing to do.


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## TICA (May 10, 2013)

I'm having trouble deciding on this debate.  On one hand, yes I agree that the punishment should match the crime.  So in this case, serving a life sentence in a cell - never to be released is imprisonment just like he imprisoned those poor girls.  As for the ****** assaults = put him in the general population of the prison and he will get his!   I also have a hard time believing that any human who could do what he did to those girls is sane - there has to be something wrong with his brain....  And.... like it or not, civilization has evolved to the point that we do have a justice system which is also evolving.  It may not always get the end result that the bulk of society wants, but thank the heavens we do have a system of some kind.  It too makes mistakes as we have seen DNA testing resulting in overturning previous rape and murder convictions.   As for the death penalty - I really don't know.  Whoever injects the needle or pulls the switch must also have a disorder in my mind to be able to live with what they do for a living which is causing the death of someone.   It is complicated but I tend to lean towards letting our justice system do the work that it is intended to do.


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## That Guy (May 10, 2013)

Oh, I'm just getting carried away.  What I'm trying to stress is that when we do to monsters as they have done, we become monsters ourselves.  Try the guy, find him guilty and execute him.  That's all.


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## SifuPhil (May 10, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Oh, I'm just getting carried away.  What I'm trying to stress is that when we do to monsters as they have done, we become monsters ourselves.  Try the guy, find him guilty and execute him.  That's all.



So you don't believe that it is possible to single-handedly carry out a "sentence" on someone like that, yet remain on the side of good? Or are you saying that with every death comes a little death of its own?

Not meaning to flagellate a deceased equine here  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -  just wondering for my OWN philosophical warehouse ...


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## SeaBreeze (May 10, 2013)

TICA said:


> I'm having trouble deciding on this debate.  On one hand, yes I agree that the punishment should match the crime.  So in this case, serving a life sentence in a cell - never to be released is imprisonment just like he imprisoned those poor girls.  As for the ****** assaults = put him in the general population of the prison and he will get his!



Life sentence in a cell for him (or all 3 brothers) would be a treat.  Do you really think he'd (or they) would be kept in the general population after their lawyer gets through all the defenses that they were not mentally fit, or maybe we would be so concerned to put them on suicide watch??  I bet dollars to donuts, that any of those girls would have rather spend those ten years of horror and abuse in that house in a nice cozy jail cell instead, where they were not subjected to cruel torture and had medical care, could watch TV, read and exercise.  Some people are just plain evil...how nice that they know they can just plead insanity and get some relaxing daily meds, and be protected in a little bubble...that we all pay for.


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## That Guy (May 11, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> So you don't believe that it is possible to single-handedly carry out a "sentence" on someone like that, yet remain on the side of good? Or are you saying that with every death comes a little death of its own?
> 
> Not meaning to flagellate a deceased equine here
> 
> ...



I would say one can exterminate in the name of "good" but, yes, we carry that extinguished life with us all our days.


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## SifuPhil (May 11, 2013)

That Guy said:


> I would say one can exterminate in the name of "good" but, yes, we carry that extinguished life with us all our days.



Okay, thank you - that's what I thought you'd say but I wanted to be sure. 

And yes, I understand that "good" and "evil" are relative and subjective. I'm thinking of examples where the person is commonly seen by the majority of their peers as being "good", i.e. following the rules of the herd. That would almost certainly eliminate any social stigma.

But the mental aspect, the ghosts that follow us ... yeah, that's a very real thing, but it just might be the price that such a person would have to pay for securing the safety of the herd.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 30, 2020)

I agree with and am 100% in favour of extreme penalties for crimes that involve kidnapping and robbing others of their precious lives, their sanity, their beauty, and their freedom.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 30, 2020)

What I will never understand is how anyone could possibly emerge from being kept locked-up in someone's basement for any length of time, without being a complete and total basket-case after.

I mean so far gone that there would be no hope for a return of the old self they once were.

Completely and totally psychologically broken.


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## Ruthanne (Oct 31, 2020)

If I'm correct this is the case where one of them escaped and alerted a neighbor in Cleveland.  It was covered on the news here a whole lot.  I don't understand how that man-Castro-could have been such a cold hearted person to do all he did--it's mind boggling.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 31, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> If I'm correct this is the case where one of them escaped and alerted a neighbor in Cleveland.  It was covered on the news here a whole lot.  I don't understand how that man-Castro-could have been such a cold hearted person to do all he did--it's mind boggling.


Thank the heavens above for the one girls escape.


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## Ruthanne (Oct 31, 2020)

The man seemed to be without morals to do what he did yet he hung himself in jail.  Makes me wonder if he had any remorse or if he hung himself for another reason.  

I think all three of the women are doing well now.  Of course I realize they've been horribly traumatized, too. One of them does a missing persons spot on a local tv network every day now for the past several years.


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## ohioboy (Sep 6, 2021)

Here is a Cleveland serial killer, scary dude.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Sowell


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