# The Phillipines!



## Diwundrin (Nov 11, 2013)

I'm not reknowned for a soft heart but what's happened to them is just gutting.

In the immortal words of the somewhat tri-national Russel Crowe. 
 "God Bless America, God Defend New Zealand, and Thank Christ for Australia!" because you wouldn't want to be a Fillipino today.

I guess you've been seeing the footage of the essentially utter wipe-out of their entire Country?

We have our hurricanes fires floods and assorted disasters but they never take the whole bleeding lot!
There's always a bit left untouched to support the damaged part.  Even Fukashima hasn't had the impact this typhoon has wreaked on the Phillipines. The typhoon was bigger than the Country, there can't have been much that isn't at least damaged. 
They have essentially nothing left.  Anywhere.

If of course the reports aren't even more hyperbolic than usual, but the pictures tell the story.  http://www.itv.com/news/2013-11-10/in-pictures-devastation-in-the-philippines-after-typhoon-haiyan/

No clean water. No food. No medical assistance. No power. No shelter, and little hope of seeing anywhere near enough of them in the near future.  Even the cities are wrecked, we can only imagine how long the rural folk will have to wait for help to arrive.
They are suddenly back in the stone age. Millions of them.  More than our entire population!  I think the estimated death toll of 10,000 is going fall short as time passes and the injured succumb to enforced neglect.

All of our countries are sending in teams, full field hospitals, rescue teams, supplies, army personnel etc  are on the way, but, where would you start?  Who can forget Haiti post earthquake, or Japan post tsunami? This one could dwarf both.

Oh, and there's another typhoon building and showing signs of following the path of the big one.  Just what they need least.
This last one was the 2nd 'record' breaker to hit them since just last December.  They were still cleaning up after that one.


They're a resiliant, hard working people,  but this will try them out, big time.
They're not sitting around wailing, they're doing all they can do for themselves with what they have left, clearing the roads of debris and looking for survivors while waiting for help and supplies from elsewhere.  They'll need all we can send them.

It takes things like this to make us realise just how totally dependent we are on technology to support the human race doesn't it?
Without it most of us are just helpless creatures exposed to the elements.


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## Warrigal (Nov 12, 2013)

I'm overwhelmed just thinking about it.

Help is steaming towards them but there is always an inevitable delay that is just excruciating to watch.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 12, 2013)

... and they're looting the stores and taking big-screen TVs. Pretty hard to explain THAT from a survival point of view.

Proves they're just as human as the next guy, and a little more American than you might suspect.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 12, 2013)

Yeah, I just saw that too Phil, can't imagine how much they'd be worth at the moment though.  I prefer to see them looting TVs than food but then that seems to be in shorter supply and no doubt better guarded.    siiiigh.   

But ain't humans grand?  They never disappoint do they?


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## dbeyat45 (Nov 12, 2013)

Australians (and others?) can donate to the Red Cross Appeal here:
http://www.redcross.org.au/typhoon-haiyan-2013.aspx

I have.


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## JustBonee (Nov 12, 2013)

Since Haiti's earthquake, it might hurt their cause to feel the United Nations will want to come running with help ...




> The devastation Haiti was hit with by the 2010 earthquake was compounded upon by a serious cholera epidemic. Tragically, the U.N. peacekeepers deployed to Haiti to help out are being blamed for the cholera epidemic. The Telegraph reported on Oct. 9, 2013,* "UN sued for billions of dollars by victims of Haiti cholera epidemic."
> *The United Nations is being sued for billions of dollars by Haitian victims of a cholera outbreak. Scientists have linked U.N. peacekeepers who were deployed in the country after its devastating 2010 earthquake to this deadly epidemic. A lawsuit has been filed in New York asking the U.N. to pay compensation for the thousands of Haitians who have been killed or injured by the cholera outbreak ever since October 2010.




http://www.examiner.com/article/haitians-sue-united-nations-over-cholera-epidemic


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## Judi.D (Nov 12, 2013)

The devastation is just so total. they have been able to get supplies of food and water into the only airstrip where they could land the transports. However, once on the ground the destruction is so bad, it is almost impossible to get it to the people.The first real relief ship will not reach them until the end of the week. 

I know we see scenes of people looting big screen TV and other useless items. But there are a lot more of heroic things happening, that we will here about.

We need to keep them in our thoughts and prayers, and help if we can even if it is only a few dollars.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 12, 2013)

I agree, Judi.D.......here is a link to organizations that are sending aid from the US.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/how-to-help-philippines-typhoon-victims/?_r=0



Before and after photos.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24899001


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## Diwundrin (Nov 12, 2013)

Just watching the BBC feed and seems the most immediate assistance so far there is being done by a private company. It's a big Phillipines construction/transport co., Aboitiz,  but they were on the spot and have gotten straight into providing water and food and are organizing shelters.
Gee eh?  Imagine that.  Big business doing the right thing, for their own people,  at their own expense just because they felt they should.  Who'da thought?.

I was just surprised to learn that Saudi Arabia is sending in aid.  They're a strange lot, they didn't do much, that I heard about anyway, for Indonesia, a fellow Moslem Country, after their tsunami, yet are doing it for the Phillipines which is largely Catholic Christian.  It's a strange world isn't it?

You know what has annoyed me more than the looters now raiding warehouses, which I guess is their way of securing food for their kids??

The shameless bastards who are standing up demanding "action on climate change". Using this tragedy as leverage to push their agenda, which even if they get implemented to their satisfaction, and presuming they are even right, can make not one iota of difference to the weather for the best part of a Century.  They are implying that instant taxes and copious funding to their Green industries will stop typhoons happening now!
 Shysters. Carpetbaggers!


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## That Guy (Nov 12, 2013)

Horrible destruction, loss of life and continuing misery.  People I know here are having trouble reaching loved ones in the area and fear the worst.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 12, 2013)

Devastation...my heart goes out to them.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 12, 2013)

Not to appear to be one of Di's carpetbaggers or shysters, but a natural disaster such as this is one of the prime reasons that survivalists and preppers do what they do.

What is the biggest concern for them right now? Water, food, shelter and sanitation, in order of importance. At least the first two could be stocked-up to a point where there is enough for every family member for at least 4 days. "Go" bags, also known as "bug-out bags", would have been a help as well - they are usually based upon a 72-hour survival scenario but of course could be modified. 

Think about whatever natural disaster your local area is subject to, and what you would do if it struck with the magnitude that this typhoon has. Are you prepared. or are you going to be just another person exposed to the scavengers and the escaped prisoners that are looting and killing to get what they want?


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## Warrigal (Nov 12, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> You know what has annoyed me more than the looters now raiding warehouses, which I guess is their way of securing food for their kids??
> 
> The shameless bastards who are standing up demanding "action on climate change". Using this tragedy as leverage to push their agenda, which even if they get implemented to their satisfaction, and presuming they are even right, can make not one iota of difference to the weather for the best part of a Century.  They are implying that instant taxes and copious funding to their Green industries will stop typhoons happening now!
> Shysters. Carpetbaggers!



Do you mean this fellow? I think he has the right, considering how vulnerable his people are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yITq61XedI&feature=youtu.be


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## JustBonee (Nov 12, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> Not to appear to be one of Di's carpetbaggers or shysters, but a natural disaster such as this is one of the prime reasons that survivalists and preppers do what they do.
> 
> What is the biggest concern for them right now? Water, food, shelter and sanitation, in order of importance. At least the first two could be stocked-up to a point where there is enough for every family member for at least 4 days. "Go" bags, also known as "bug-out bags", would have been a help as well - they are usually based upon a 72-hour survival scenario but of course could be modified.
> 
> Think about whatever natural disaster your local area is subject to, and what you would do if it struck with the magnitude that this typhoon has. Are you prepared. or are you going to be just another person exposed to the scavengers and the escaped prisoners that are looting and killing to get what they want?




On the Gulf Coast, the following is what we get in Hurricane Booklets every year and is drummed into our heads around the first of June.  It becomes second nature for long time residents.  ...even though all has been quiet for sometime now..

Also, a potential dangerous storm headed in the general direction with high winds and/or flooding that means GET OUT..  best to have a vehicle ready, filled with gas to head in a safe direction.  We have hurricane evaluation routes assigned, and people are told to leave by zip codes.          
Lived over a week without power during Hurricane Ike (although of course nothing like what they just went thru in the Phillipines)  -  had much wind damage in the area .. and the following list   helped to make it bearable and get by. 
What we are told to have:  ... and I add to the list if you have to leave your home with animals --- dog/cat crates, for animals on edge.  

*Hurricane Preparedness Supply List / Kit:*


First aid kit (bandages, gauze, scissors, aspirin, antacids, hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, antiseptic spray and thermometer)
Flashlight and/or lantern
Extra batteries (various sizes)
Matches and/or butane lighter
Can opener (manual/non-electric)
Extra prescription medicine
Battery-operated radio with weather band
Car charger for your cell phone
Fire extinguisher
Basic hand tool kit (hammer, nails, flat head and Phillips head screwdrivers, pliers, hatchet or axe, knife, handsaw, duct tape, heavy-duty work gloves and 100 feet of rope or heavy cord)
One-week supply of non-perishable food (canned or packaged/dry foods, milk and beverages)
If you have a baby, maintain a one-week supply of baby food, formula and diapers
For pets, buy a supply of food, cat litter, etc.
Disposable plates and eating utensils
Paper towels, napkins, toilet paper, trash bags
One-week supply of water (for drinking purposes)... two quarts per person per day
Toiletries such as toothpaste, sunscreen, soap, and other personal hygiene items
Bleach (plain/no additives) to purify water with 8 drops per gallon of water
Water purification tablets (available in many pharmacies)
Disinfectant spray
Mosquito repellent and netting
Portable cooler (to keep ice)
A grill or Sterno stove (no gas grills indoors!)
Sleeping bags
Canvas or plastic tarp(s)
Whistle or air horn
If you're in an area prone to flooding, consider including life preservers and an inflatable raft
Copies of important documents


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## Davey Jones (Nov 12, 2013)

One thing for sure their weather forcasting sucks but then so does ours..Sandy Beach.
Is it ok to say globing warming again?


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## Diwundrin (Nov 12, 2013)

This is, or was, a Cyclone prone region.  50 years ago it got hammered annually with at least one, usually 2or 3, category 2 or 3, and occasionally cat.4 cyclones.  The building codes still require cabling installed from the roof and anchored to the foundations.  A minor one took our power out for 27hours last year so I'm stocked up for the 'survivalist' scenario.
_(...ftw: a Cyclone is exactly the same thing as a Typhoon or Hurricane, they get different tags depending on where they originate._)

But the cyclones all but stopped around here about 30 years ago.  Just wimpy things have been coming in, 'tropical storm' category for last few decades.  It's how the climate cycle goes. They still get them further north in Qld,  but not as many as in the 50s/60s. So sure, climate has, and is, changing.  

... but...
Maybe they should be wondering why the Cyclones went away instead of using their return as a 'proof' of their contention that a tax and more funding of their 'Green Industry' will STOP it returning to it's normal cycle.

 I know that 'Get Out' tactic is the best option where it's possible but  how do you get 28 million people 'out' of a smallish group of islands?

The Phillipines have always been smack in the middle of Typhoon Alley, it hasn't moved there recently and the Typhoon track hasn't changed.  They're used to them, they build, in the main, to cope with them.  This was bigger than most, it hit them dead centre and no amount of preparation would have prevented the damage, much of which was caused by storm surge 'tsunamis'.  

They got exceedingly unlucky and it galls me that the Climate Evangelists are using them as a 'show and tell'. 
 They, to me, are the equivalent of the Mullahs who pointed, jeered and proclaimed that Katrina and Sandy were Allah's Punishment.

So Warri, I guess if you deeply believe that they are right, either the Mullahs or the Climangelists, then you wouldn't see it the way I see it.
.. but then I'm used to that.



btw Phil, a small point that your 





> What is the biggest concern for them right now? Water, food, shelter and  sanitation, in order of importance. At least the first two could be  stocked-up to a point where there is enough for every family member for  at least 4 days.


 advice overlooks is that they were left with little more of their homes than the foundations.

Their supplies and 'go bags' had, with their houses, 'gone with the wind'.  Anything once edible isn't that way any longer when it's wet and contaminated and cooking up bacteria under a tropical sun.  
They aren't silly, they know more about handling Typhoons than most, and they still ended up with nothing. I don't think any amount of forethought could have prevented their current circumstances.


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## Fern (Nov 12, 2013)

Davey Jones said:


> One thing for sure their weather forcasting sucks but then so does ours..Sandy Beach.
> Is it ok to say globing warming again?


Well of course its been blamed on global warming even though typhoons are a common experience, but this one is far worse than what they have experienced over the years. Whatever, I'd sure hate to be in their shoes. It was great to see that huge US plane landing with supplies.


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## Sid (Nov 12, 2013)

Boo's Mom said:


> Since Haiti's earthquake, it might hurt their cause to feel the United Nations will want to come running with help ...
> 
> 
> 
> If the UN is so full of loving and caring people they aren't going to let the threat of a little law suit interfer whith all that love and compassion.


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## Sid (Nov 12, 2013)

Davey Jones said:


> One thing for sure their weather forcasting sucks but then so does ours..Sandy Beach.
> Is it ok to say globing warming again?



  It might be OK to say it. In my opinion it would be more fitting to lay petty political BS aside and worry about how they can be helped NOW.


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## Ivanchuk (Nov 12, 2013)

What a humbling experience. Natural disasters are just plain brutal. Can't predict when they'll hit. I'm not even going to get into Insurance stuff.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 12, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> btw Phil, a small point that your  advice overlooks is that they were left with little more of their homes than the foundations.
> 
> Their supplies and 'go bags' had, with their houses, 'gone with the wind'.  Anything once edible isn't that way any longer when it's wet and contaminated and cooking up bacteria under a tropical sun.
> They aren't silly, they know more about handling Typhoons than most, and they still ended up with nothing. I don't think any amount of forethought could have prevented their current circumstances.



If they were indeed wise to the ways of typhoons they wouldn't be living in ramshackle huts on the edge of the water. In fact, they wouldn't be living on such an isolated island in the middle of Typhoon Alley at all. They would be much better off on the "mainland". 

The idea of a Go bag is that IT GOES WITH YOU wherever you are. You don't leave them sitting in a closet when the winds are knocking at your door. You have bottled and sealed water and rations that are not affected by climate conditions, i.e. MREs, canned goods. 

No, no amount of prep could have prevented the disaster, but it WOULD have prevented their having to act like crazed animals in their search for food and water so soon after the hit. I'm sorry, but if you have stores selling big-screen TV's that means your population base can also afford to lay-in a few bottles of water and a couple cans of beans.

For me this is yet another lesson of what would happen here in times of disaster - bodies will be lying around, the government will be nowhere in sight and it will be every person for themselves. Their cries for aid are exactly what I would expect here, and that's why I'm prepared to get through at least a week on my own.


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## Anne (Nov 12, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> If they were indeed wise to the ways of typhoons they wouldn't be living in ramshackle huts on the edge of the water. In fact, they wouldn't be living on such an isolated island in the middle of Typhoon Alley at all. They would be much better off on the "mainland".
> 
> The idea of a Go bag is that IT GOES WITH YOU wherever you are. You don't leave them sitting in a closet when the winds are knocking at your door. You have bottled and sealed water and rations that are not affected by climate conditions, i.e. MREs, canned goods.
> 
> ...



But, Phil - where would they go when there's that much devastation??  They would be mobbed very soon trying to leave with food & supplies, I would think, and even if they got away, where to??


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 12, 2013)

A gal who posts on Pet Forums lives in the Philippines.  She just wrote a message to us that she lives in Luzon, and she is okay.  She said her mother's house was damaged, and that area was the worst hit was where the mom lived, the area is Visayas.  She said communications were down in Leyte and Sama.

She told us that the day after the typhoon hit, there were 200 dead bodies strewn over Tacolban City.  Since they lacked body bags, the military used tarps and large plastics instead.  Evacuation centers are packed and some villages have not been reached with any relief.  Some were venturing to the city to seek help.

Besides praying for these folks, we can donate through the International Red Cross also...http://www.icrc.org/eng/donations/?o...pn=philippines


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## Diwundrin (Nov 12, 2013)

Phil!  You're kidding right?  The Phillipines doesn't have a 'mainland'. Their whole Country is that group of 'isolated' islands and 28 million people won't all fit on the highest one. Nor can an entire Country be evacuated every time a typhoon warning is issued. 

The ramshackle huts weren't the only thing affected, it knocked down concrete buildings and  left cargo ships halfway up hills.  Not everyone can afford to live in a stormproof mansion you know, they're not '3rd World' but it ain't Manhattan either.  They don't just sell big screen TVs, they make the parts for 'em.  But their main income derives from food production. Ironic?  The crops, and the processing plants are in the main kaput.  But even though they must have stored food on some of the islands they don't have any way of getting it to where it's needed most.  They don't have the planes and ships, and the roads when they get there are impassable.

Those in the worst hit areas ran out of arms to hang on to their 'go' bags, they were holding onto their kids.  One man was demonstrating how he was left with nothing left but his toilet to hang on to and he had both arms around it.  I don't think a go bag was a high priority just then.  An entire village of 45 people crammed under a big heavy loaded dump truck because it was the only thing still standing and it was lifting off the ground at times.  They all survived, one of the few villages that did.  The wind speeds clocked up to, or close to, 300kph.  That's twister stuff isn't it?  Except it lasted a lot longer.
I'd be willing to bet that every single one of those homes, even the ramshackle ones, would have had supplies put by, as I said, they aren't silly.
They were simply blown away and outgunned by nature at it's nastiest.  

Dunno about you but they impressed me that they came through it as well as they did.  The rigged up clothes lines to dry what clothes they can find, and  shelters built from the debris that  they've constructed for themselves, and the utensils they've gathered from the mess to make at least a semblance of a 'home' under a sheet of tin propped up on a fridge, which is more than I'd expect most societies to accomplish after something like that.  Most seem to just sit down and wail.

 They've done their level best to help themselves and I admire that.  That food is simply no longer available isn't just down to their bad management.  That their water supplies are contaminated isn't either.  I'd expect canned food would be picked up from wherever it landed but it wouldn't still be in cupboards and it wouldn't be enough.

btw, Tell me something, if you were the only one in the village smart enough to have strapped  a weeks worth of food and water around you in your  go bag could you sit there with it and let the neighbours and relatives kids go thirsty and hungry?  Could you eat it front of them?  

I've got a few 'survivalist' types rels and friends and they have it all figured out too, but it depends on the landscape you find yourself in as to how well you will fare with that.  What is good planning in the aftermath of some disasters in some places is impossible to implement in others.
Robinson Crusoe didn't have several hundred thousand neighbours to compete with for food, if you see what I mean?  
And why would you expect them to behave any differently, or better than other similar societies in other nations?  

It's been close on a week for them now, so that 'go' bag is looking sadly depleted, what's the next move? 
 It's not the States, it doesn't have the resources to be trained or trucked in for relief. It doesn't have another few thousand miles of country to evacuate to either.  
   I'm sorry but I have to remember the clusterfuffle that New Orleans was, what if New Orleans had been a thousand miles from the 'mainland' of a foreign Country and not part of the US? How much worse would that have been?  ... and where exactly were the residents going to find food after a week?  Loot it?  Surely not.  Maybe they would even have stolen a survivalist's go bag. gasp.


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## Murphy (Nov 12, 2013)

What bothers me about this typhoon and other natural disasters world-wide is media exaggeration. It was NOT the worst in history according to the Phillipine Met Agency, typhoon Reming 7 years ago was stronger -- https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2013/11/10/typhoon-yolanda-the-strongest-since-2006/ 

Sure it was very bad but wild guesses of the death toll and reports of complete devastation (of the whole country) dont help anyone. The Phillipines President estimated the toll at 2000 -- 2500. http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/deadlyworld.asp


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## dbeyat45 (Nov 13, 2013)

There is no "signature" of global warming in this or any other recent typhoon/cyclone/hurricane/tornado/etc.  Accumulated Cyclonic Energy (ACE), measured globally is low and has been for a long time while the world has warmed.  There is nothing, repeat nothing, special about the current typhoon except that it's a big nasty one.    

[h=2]Some history of the                 Philippines and typhoons[/h]             Oct 22, 1882

*“Observatory says lowest barometer at 11.40 a. m.,                 727.60 ; highest velocity wind registered, 144.4 miles                 an hour. Unable to measure greatest velocity of typhoon                 as anemometer damaged.”*
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/38278695​ 
            The Philippines government says that the             top speed registered for typhoon Haiyan was *146 MPH*.


              Oct 21, 1897
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14101833
              Dec 16, 1900
              “A terrific cyclone was encountered on December 16, when               the vessel was to the eastward of the Philippines. The               tempest raged for three days, and the vessel was               absolutely uncontrollable.”
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14356766
              Sep 27, 1905
              TYPHOON AT MANILA. THOUSANDS HOMELESS.
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4965581
              Sep 20, 1906
              Destructive Typhoon in the Philippines.Vessels               wrecked.1000 lives lost in Hongkong.
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4343461
              10 Jan 1907
              TYPHOON IN THE PHILIPPINES. A HUNDRED MEN KILLED.
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5052954
              23 Sep 1908
              TYPHOON IN THE PHILIPPINES.GREAT LOSS OF LIFE.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5187348
              19 Oct 1912
              GREAT TYPHOON.Heavy Loss of Life.Damage of £5,000,000.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10518642
              30 Nov 1912
              A BIG TYPHOON.DEVASTATION IN THE PHILIPPINES.THOUSANDS               KILLED.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5355894
              12 May 1913
              TYPHOON IN PHILIPPINES.FIFTY-EIGHT LIVES LOST.EXTENSIVE               DAMAGE.
              The typhoon was the most severe experienced for eight               years.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/90934517
              27 Oct 1915
              PHILIPPINES TYPHOON.A TOWN WIPED OUT.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10434066
              3 Sep 1920
              TYPHOON IN PHILIPPINES.MUCH DAMAGE DONE.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11490381
              12 June 1923
              Disastrous Typhoon.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2008470
              27 June 1925
              TYPHOON IN PHILIPPINES. ELEVEN PEOPLE KILLED.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/84052280
              28 Nov 1928
              The Philippines have been swept by a typhoon described as               the worst known for years.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/29319617
              10 Dec 1938
              TYPHOON RAVAGES PHILLIPINES. HUNDREDS HOMELESS.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/76063407​


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## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2013)

Diwundrin, you are showing admirable empathy for someone who has never faced such horror as the people of the Philippines have lived through. There are times when all your preparations and plans are to no avail and all that is left is fate and the kindness of strangers. Those that have survived should not be judged. What they need above all is compassion. And generous practical aid.

I see that our government has sent a trauma hospital with fully trained staff that can perform operations and disease control. Other will send food and other necessities of life. May it all arrive swiftly but even so more lives will be lost in very tragic circumstances.


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## dbeyat45 (Nov 13, 2013)

Repeat post:

Australians (and others?) can donate to the Red Cross Appeal here:
http://www.redcross.org.au/typhoon-haiyan-2013.aspx


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## Diwundrin (Nov 13, 2013)

> Diwundrin, you are showing admirable empathy for someone who has never  faced such horror as the people of the Philippines have lived through.



No Warri, nothing like Haiya, but I have tried to sleep in a house built on poles through a few of those cyclones we had here back in the 50s and I can extrapolate what a really bad one must be like.  The whole house swayed for 2 full days through one of them but we didn't get out... there was nowhere else to go, only to other old houses in worse condition or sit in the street in the weather.  (That house is still standing to this day btw, they built 'em gooood back then.) No matter what dates we chose we always seemed to rent it at exactly the same time one of the cyclones hit, 4 straight years we got it wrong, one year we just missed one then the next year one got us again!  It was part of the 'holiday experience.'  

The one bright side of cyclones is that fish get positively suicidal in the hours before the worst of it hits the coast and Bream would bite on bare hooks.  Anything that moved was food to them, maybe they were packing their own form of 'go' bags before the river flooded and pushed them out to sea away from their feeding grounds.  
Standing knee deep, fishing in nothing but a swimsuit and a raincoat in a steadily increasing gale and the sky looking like doomsday is a lasting memory of those holidays.  It was actually fun to the very much younger me.

Electricity wasn't even connected to that fishing village back then so blackouts weren't a problem, and we had more fish than we could eat before it went off and it keeps longer once cooked anyway. We had a primus to cook it on and a kero fridge to keep it in, and we had a full house tank of water so we were okay until the rivermouth was clear enough to fish again.  Of course if the house had gone over we'd have been in the proverbial, but it didn't.  We did get tired of fish for 3 meals a day though.  It was that or Weetbix with water or that appalling tinned stew and a boiled potato by the end of the week. 

Getting out of the village wasn't on either. We didn't own a car, and neither did most of the residents.  Only the store owner had a jeep big enough to carry more than 4 out to the highway to catch the passing bus of the day,  and he wasn't going anywhere. 
 The highway was flooded either side of the turnoff so it would have been a very short evacuation, and no bus to catch. 

 The campers of course were all long gone but the rest of us just rode it out. There was big heavy hinged shutter that covered the window  and verandah end on the seaward side, it took 2 men to manhandle that down and secure it but it did the trick.
  I remember the amount of debris  left as being mindblowing to a city kid, but of course nothing compared to that in the Phillipines.

I've known a lot of Phillipinos at all ratings of likeable but even the ones I wouldn't trust with a dollar I respected for their 'can do' and practical attitude to life.  I guess that's why this one has 'touched' me whereas I remained disconnected to others.  It's just a rather shallow judgement based on personal experiences I guess.  Don't worry Warri, no Mother Theresa syndrome likely to break out here any time soon. 
I just see the Phillipines as more deserving of a hand up than many.  I'm not very PC egalitarian that way I'm afraid.


----------



## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2013)

It's the smaller details that bring home the full horror.



> Nov 13 (Reuters) - In the chapel of the only functioning public hospital in typhoon-ravaged Tacloban, seven tiny, premature babies lie sweltering in intense heat, looked over by anxious mothers and a wooden statue of Christ.
> 
> An eighth, born two days after Friday's monster storm hit the central Philippines, is kept alive only by his exhausted grandmother who pumps air by hand into his sick lungs. Only one baby, his face bruised purple from a hurried delivery by forceps, is strong enough to cry.
> 
> ...


----------



## Diwundrin (Nov 13, 2013)

I do wonder sometimes how come these reporters can not only get to these villages but bring cameras and equipment with them that take up space better utilized by something of benefit to those they make their living from.  I'm sure a box of food concentrate or a water purifier instead of a recorder, and a cameraman sized pack of bottled water would have been a better use for the helicopter space. 
I saw one report where a villager ran up and asked one if he had brought any food or water, how embarrassing.  At least I hope he was embarrassed.


----------



## dbeyat45 (Nov 13, 2013)

[h=3]Deeply Conflicted About Weather Extremes[/h]http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/deeply-conflicted-about-weather-extremes.html

Pielke Jr. is professor of environmental studies at the Center for Science and Technology Policy Research at the University of Colorado at Boulder


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## SifuPhil (Nov 13, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Phil!  You're kidding right?  The Phillipines doesn't have a 'mainland'. Their whole Country is that group of 'isolated' islands and 28 million people won't all fit on the highest one. Nor can an entire Country be evacuated every time a typhoon warning is issued.



They could relocate to Taiwan or any other major landmass that lies within the area. 

This reminds me of the people here in Pennsylvania that have lost literally everything but their lives in the numerous floods the area is prone to. They lost it all, yet they REFUSE to move to higher ground a mile away. 



> The ramshackle huts weren't the only thing affected, it knocked down concrete buildings and  left cargo ships halfway up hills.



Not "halfway up hills" - up on the beach. And yes, it knocked down concrete buildings as well but statistically you stand a better chance of survival in a concrete building than in a hand-made hut on the edge of the water made out of scrap 1x4s. 



> Not everyone can afford to live in a stormproof mansion you know, they're not '3rd World' but it ain't Manhattan either.  They don't just sell big screen TVs, they make the parts for 'em.  But their main income derives from food production. Ironic?  The crops, and the processing plants are in the main kaput.  But even though they must have stored food on some of the islands they don't have any way of getting it to where it's needed most.  They don't have the planes and ships, and the roads when they get there are impassable.



All the more reason to have your OWN supplies.



> Those in the worst hit areas ran out of arms to hang on to their 'go' bags, they were holding onto their kids.



Seriously? You can't wear a backpack AND hold onto your kids?



> One man was demonstrating how he was left with nothing left but his toilet to hang on to and he had both arms around it.  I don't think a go bag was a high priority just then.



Always the sign of a trained survivalist - hugging a toilet during times of stress. What good did it do? 



> I'd be willing to bet that every single one of those homes, even the ramshackle ones, would have had supplies put by, as I said, they aren't silly.
> They were simply blown away and outgunned by nature at it's nastiest.



They may have had them "put by" but they didn't have them in a form appropriate for such a common occurrence as typhoons.



> Dunno about you but they impressed me that they came through it as well as they did.  The rigged up clothes lines to dry what clothes they can find, and  shelters built from the debris that  they've constructed for themselves, and the utensils they've gathered from the mess to make at least a semblance of a 'home' under a sheet of tin propped up on a fridge, which is more than I'd expect most societies to accomplish after something like that.



Yes, I do give them credit for that.



> Most seem to just sit down and wail.



Yet another sign of what a prepared person does. It always makes your lot much better by crying. 

/sarcasm



> They've done their level best to help themselves and I admire that.  That food is simply no longer available isn't just down to their bad management.  That their water supplies are contaminated isn't either.  I'd expect canned food would be picked up from wherever it landed but it wouldn't still be in cupboards and it wouldn't be enough.



I maintain that if they had planned their emergency supplies properly they wouldn't be as desperate as they are, and that boils down to bad management.



> btw, Tell me something, if you were the only one in the village smart enough to have strapped  a weeks worth of food and water around you in your  go bag could you sit there with it and let the neighbours and relatives kids go thirsty and hungry?  Could you eat it front of them?



If it meant MY survival over THEIRS? Hell, yeah! I'm not sure if you realize how your thinking changes in a survival situation - it's no longer rainbows and puppies, it's survival at all costs.



> I've got a few 'survivalist' types rels and friends and they have it all figured out too, but it depends on the landscape you find yourself in as to how well you will fare with that.  What is good planning in the aftermath of some disasters in some places is impossible to implement in others.



Very true.



> Robinson Crusoe didn't have several hundred thousand neighbours to compete with for food, if you see what I mean?



Neither did Adam and Eve, but they're also all fictional characters.



> And why would you expect them to behave any differently, or better than other similar societies in other nations?



I never said I did.

As with any other country there will be survivors and there will be non-survivors. Some of it is up to chance, but chance favors the prepared. Sheep will always be sheared but the wolves will always be around.



> It's been close on a week for them now, so that 'go' bag is looking sadly depleted, what's the next move?



The entire purpose of a go-bag is to provide life-sustainment until you can reach either (A) an alternate location or (B) find more supplies, or (C) help arrives. The longer you are alive the better your chances of survival - it's that simple. You don't just sit on the curb munching your energy bars and sipping your water - you should be actively seeking out better conditions or fresh supplies and not just sitting there crying or hugging your toilet.



> It's not the States, it doesn't have the resources to be trained or trucked in for relief. It doesn't have another few thousand miles of country to evacuate to either.



It's _their_ choice to remain there, just like the locals who are just existing and waiting for the next flood here..



> I'm sorry but I have to remember the clusterfuffle that New Orleans was, *what if New Orleans had been a thousand miles from the 'mainland' of a foreign Country and not part of the US?* How much worse would that have been?  ... and where exactly were the residents going to find food after a week?  Loot it?  Surely not.  Maybe they would even have stolen a survivalist's go bag. gasp.



But it wasn't.

Had they tried to steal MY go-bag they would just become another one of the bodies left in the detritus.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 13, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> I do wonder sometimes how come these reporters can not only get to these villages but bring cameras and equipment with them that take up space better utilized by something of benefit to those they make their living from.  I'm sure a box of food concentrate or a water purifier instead of a recorder, and a cameraman sized pack of bottled water would have been a better use for the helicopter space.
> I saw one report where a villager ran up and asked one if he had brought any food or water, how embarrassing.  At least I hope he was embarrassed.



Without that camera equipment the world would be less informed of the event, thus the world could not donate all their money and supplies. They have cargo planes and naval vessels filled with supplies - what good, logistically speaking, would one person carrying water and a candy bar in a helicopter be?

It's called_ gaining exposure, _a potentially much more life-saving technique.

C'mon, Di - this is first-grade stuff! You should KNOW this already.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 13, 2013)

Warrigal said:


> Diwundrin, you are showing admirable empathy for someone who has never faced such horror as the people of the Philippines have lived through.



I KNOW you aren't referring to ME, because you do not know WHAT I have been through ... :numbness:


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## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2013)

Then there is another complication







> *Typhoon Haiyan: gun culture of the Philippines hinders relief efforts *
> 
> *A combination of unlucky geography, poverty, poor government and widespread   gun use have exacerbated the effects of Typhoon Haiyan
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...f-the-Philippines-hinders-relief-efforts.html*


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## SifuPhil (Nov 13, 2013)

Warrigal said:


> Then there is another complication



LOL! The Phillipines are a _gangsta nation_! 

Who would have thought?


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## Judi.D (Nov 13, 2013)

Just a thought. I would imagine that most people who live in shacks are more focused on just surviving day to day. The idea of preparing for something like this that may happen isn't a luxury they can afford.

The bottom line is they need help now. Help is there and coming, but it will never be quick enough. That is the reality of a disaster of this magnitude.

They need our thoughts and prayers, and any help we can give.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 13, 2013)

Judi.D said:


> Just a thought. I would imagine that most people who live in shacks are more focused on just surviving day to day. The idea of preparing for something like this that may happen isn't a luxury they can afford.



Very true, and it's a sad but real fact that the poor always suffer the most in both natural and man-made disasters.



> The bottom line is they need help now. Help is there and coming, but it will never be quick enough. That is the reality of a disaster of this magnitude.
> 
> They need our thoughts and prayers, and any help we can give.



Well said.

After reading Warri's link above I would think that the most important logistic now would be getting the supplies to the people that need them, without them falling prey to the black marketers and the corrupt government troops. Of course, that's a concern in ANY such situation no matter WHERE it occurs.


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## JustBonee (Nov 13, 2013)

Along with the gangs taking over and shooting up the place now  .. the news media shows the troops delivering those 50 lb bags of rice to the area of worst destruction.  .. greeted by gangs, and a shootout?  
Just how does delivering big bags of rice save the day?? ... wandering around with nowhere to go, with a big bag of rice.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 13, 2013)

Boo's Mom said:


> Along with the gangs taking over and shooting up the place now  .. the news media shows the troops delivering those 50 lb bags of rice to the area of worst destruction.  .. greeted my gangs, and a shootout?
> Just how does delivering big bags of rice save the day?? ... wandering around with nowhere to go, with a big bag of rice.



See, that's why I wonder exactly what the effect of sending in $20 will have. 

The sunshine-and-skittles view is that the money will go for food and water and medical supplies directly to those in need. The reality is that, based upon previous situations, the lion's share of the money will be scarfed up by the corrupt politicians, the supplies will be stolen and sold at inflated prices and the pain and suffering will continue long after it should have ended.

Trying to fix an entire culture within days by sending a few bucks just doesn't cut it. All it does is soothe our own guilt and make us feel good about ourselves.


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## Judi.D (Nov 13, 2013)

Unfortunately it is not just limited to their culture. Similar things happened in this country after Katrina and more recently Sandy. It is just the reality of life anywhere. There will always be those who take advantage of these situations. No guilt, but it does make me feel better and that is worth $20. and maybe just maybe it will help.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 13, 2013)

Phil, I just can't get past this relocate obsession you exhibit.layful:  
It's their Country, they were born there.  Even if they wanted to they can't ALL emigrate, although a goodly few do.  But honestly, 28 million people should just up and leave?  Why isn't Tornado Alley in the US bereft of population?  What's stopping them from relocating to Mexico?  At least they could walk or drive, bit harder to cross an ocean.  
Most of the World's population is on the move in one way or another and they won't all find some safe haven to settle in.  Those places are going to get really, really crowded.

Evacuation:
How many million do you think Taiwan would have been happy to accept for a short holiday away from the Typhoon? 
... and why would they?  Would the States accept 28 million Fillipino immigrants in one batch?
 Who would have supplied the logistical hardware to transport even a few million at short notice?  Presuming of course that they could even predict and pinpoint which part of which islands would be in the eye of the typhoon?

Many no doubt did move to high ground, or there'd be millions dead, not thousands, but they couldn't take their houses or crops with them.

Maybe Taiwan is an option for those flood prone Pennsylvanians, I'm sure they'd be happy to leave their homeland for a life in a foreign land that doesn't want them and can't support them.  How many million are we talkin' here?  

   ... and while I'm at it, how long did it take to get supplies into New Orleans, and to evacuate them to other parts of the US?, just don't quite remember now but seemed more than a couple of days.

That go bag thing:  You are predicating your entire argument upon your own circumstances as a fit, single, unencumbered man. You, and the vast majority of survivalists fall into that category. Most of us don't. It's a perfectly logical theory for those qualified, but it's not something that will work for the long term survival of more than a few.  The more that survive the harder it would get.  But never mind, go bag or not most of us wouldn't last all that long 'in the wild' anyway.

That Robinson Crusoe analogy, yes he was fictional, but based on the story of castaway sailor Alexander Selkirk so not conceding that point.
Adam and Eve I'll leave alone for the time being. 



Just looked at the time and have to get up at 6 so as it's already 1am I'd better have a lie down and leave the other points for another time.

Time out??

'night all.


----------



## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2013)

I'm with Di, Phil, your philosophy may save your neck in a crisis but then again maybe not.
There is only so much you can prepare for, the rest is up to chance. 

I believe, as do most of my countrymen, that by clubbing together in groups we enhance our chances of survival.
For you it seems to be all for one but I believe in one for all as well.

Di calls me Pollyanna and not without reason, but Pollyanna is actually a realist. She sees the dark side of human nature but refuses to stop believing in the light. Even though there may be lawlessness and chaos after a disaster, we still need to do everything possible to save lives and restore order. If all we can do is donate money, then so be it. Some courageous souls actually brave the dangers to bring relief and they deserve our support too.

I donate monthly to _medicin sans frontiers _because I know that they will be there as soon as they can. Very often they are there or nearby and ready to go into action very quickly. They will save lives.


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## Katybug (Nov 13, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> ... and they're looting the stores and taking big-screen TVs. Pretty hard to explain THAT from a survival point of view.
> 
> Proves they're just as human as the next guy, and a little more American than you might suspect.



Yes, it is hard to explain that, Phil.  Seems the looting starts with every catastrophe everywhere.  It's overwhelming to watch the reports tho, so many lives lost and such devastation. Wondering how much the USA will kick in with Haiti remaining our main interest in rebuilding outside our country, when we don't have it to give!


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## Katybug (Nov 13, 2013)

Warrigal said:


> I'm with Di, Phil, your philosophy may save your neck in a crisis but then again maybe not.
> There is only so much you can prepare for, the rest is up to chance.
> 
> I believe, as do most of my countrymen, that by clubbing together in groups we enhance our chances of survival.
> ...



Big kudos to you for your donations to such a worthy cause, WG.  I hope there will relief and major support for this desperate situation.


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## JustBonee (Nov 13, 2013)

It looks,  from this map,  that there was room for movement away from the eye of storm.  

But what information were they given ahead of  landfall?


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## Katybug (Nov 13, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> I do wonder sometimes how come these reporters can not only get to these villages but bring cameras and equipment with them that take up space better utilized by something of benefit to those they make their living from.  I'm sure a box of food concentrate or a water purifier instead of a recorder, and a cameraman sized pack of bottled water would have been a better use for the helicopter space.
> I saw one report where a villager ran up and asked one if he had brought any food or water, how embarrassing.  At least I hope he was embarrassed.



Well stated, and "ain't" it the truth???!!!


----------



## SifuPhil (Nov 13, 2013)

Judi.D said:


> Unfortunately it is not just limited to their culture. Similar things happened in this country after Katrina and more recently Sandy. It is just the reality of life anywhere. There will always be those who take advantage of these situations. No guilt, but it does make me feel better and that is worth $20. and maybe just maybe it will help.



Well said.



Diwundrin said:


> Phil, I just can't get past this relocate obsession you exhibit.layful:



It stems from my transference fixation - since I want to leave Pennsylvania I transfer that longing to the world's population. 



> It's their Country, they were born there.  Even if they wanted to they can't ALL emigrate, although a goodly few do.  But honestly, 28 million people should just up and leave?  Why isn't Tornado Alley in the US bereft of population?  What's stopping them from relocating to Mexico?  At least they could walk or drive, bit harder to cross an ocean.
> 
> Most of the World's population is on the move in one way or another and they won't all find some safe haven to settle in.  Those places are going to get really, really crowded.



I'm not saying they should all move, but I AM saying that they shouldn't be moaning and weeping when a known phenomenon visits them yet again. Refer back to my statement about the PA'ers who stay in flood-prone areas. I REALLY AM puzzled why people would do that. What - their Mommy and Daddy were born there and they "can't" leave? Their garden is finally just the way they want it? They've "spent too long there" to move (something I hear a LOT of)? 

Then when the floods _do_ come, as living next to the river you KNOW they're going to, don't go running to the government begging for help that comes from MY tax dollars. I shouldn't have to support stupidity. Yet that is exactly what happens: many of these people are suing FEMA and all the other alphabet-soup agencies for their lack of "prompt action". Granted, some places are still abandoned since the last flood two years ago, and people have moved in with their extended families or found apartments, but they're constantly harping in their "Letters to the Editor" and the human interest stories on the TV news about how they're being worked-over by the government and crying that they need help. There are still some from the '72 flood that are complaining about lack of aid! 



> Evacuation:
> How many million do you think Taiwan would have been happy to accept for a short holiday away from the Typhoon?
> ... and why would they?  Would the States accept 28 million Fillipino immigrants in one batch?
> 
> Who would have supplied the logistical hardware to transport even a few million at short notice?  Presuming of course that they could even predict and pinpoint which part of which islands would be in the eye of the typhoon?



I'm not a fan of evacuation in a situation like that - as you can see from the pics they brought in military troops to try to maintain order but I'm sure it was still a SNAFU. Families were split up, weakening further the survival chances of the ones that remained. 

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that evacuation would be the answer - I was referring to my relocation fetish. 



> Many no doubt did move to high ground, or there'd be millions dead, not thousands, but they couldn't take their houses or crops with them.



True, but they are STILL ALIVE. That's #1 on the survival hit parade. You can replace _anything_ but a human life. 



> Maybe Taiwan is an option for those flood prone Pennsylvanians, I'm sure they'd be happy to leave their homeland for a life in a foreign land that doesn't want them and can't support them.  How many million are we talkin' here?
> 
> ... and while I'm at it, how long did it take to get supplies into New Orleans, and to evacuate them to other parts of the US?, just don't quite remember now but seemed more than a couple of days.



Pennsylvanians would never go to Taiwan - there isn't any good Polish sausage to be had. layful:

New Orleans was just another example of what I'm talking about - living in an area that you KNOW to be dangerous. Putting faith into government-built levees. Basing the safety of you and your entire family on a roll of the dice. And it isn't just because they were poor - even without money you can live a life that eliminates some of the big disaster potentialities, or at least moderates their effects.



> That go bag thing:  You are predicating your entire argument upon your own circumstances as a fit, single, unencumbered man. You, and the vast majority of survivalists fall into that category. Most of us don't. It's a perfectly logical theory for those qualified, but it's not something that will work for the long term survival of more than a few.  The more that survive the harder it would get.  But never mind, go bag or not most of us wouldn't last all that long 'in the wild' anyway.



... and that is the Way of Nature. Survival of the fittest. All of this artificial lengthening of life-spans, every rescue of a disaster-struck area is another smack in the face of The Way Things Are Meant To Be. We allow our emotions to get the better of us and fly to the aid of those who are unlucky, and it seems on the surface to be a wonderful thing, but in doing so we are messing around with forces that we don't understand. Maybe this is Nature's way of saying that the population is too large ... 



> That Robinson Crusoe analogy, yes he was fictional, but based on the story of castaway sailor Alexander Selkirk so not conceding that point.
> Adam and Eve I'll leave alone for the time being.



I figured you'd know about Selkirk - touche!

Yeah, ol' A&E we won't get into - I can't imagine what THEIR go-bags would contain - apples and fig leaves? 



> Just looked at the time and have to get up at 6 so as it's already 1am I'd better have a lie down and leave the other points for another time.
> 
> Time out??
> 
> 'night all.



Time out. Happy dreams! 



Warrigal said:


> I'm with Di, Phil, your philosophy may save your neck in a crisis but then again maybe not.
> There is only so much you can prepare for, the rest is up to chance.



But relying upon a roll of the dice - or the kindness of a stranger - is no way to plan for your future. The more you prepare, every extra bottle of water you put in your knapsack and every extra .38 cartridge you pack for your revolver is reducing the effects of chance and strengthening your ability to survive "against all odds".



> I believe, as do most of my countrymen, that by clubbing together in groups we enhance our chances of survival.
> For you it seems to be all for one but I believe in one for all as well.



Granted I'm a loner, so that's my perception of situations like this. 



> Di calls me Pollyanna and not without reason, but Pollyanna is actually a realist. She sees the dark side of human nature but refuses to stop believing in the light. Even though there may be lawlessness and chaos after a disaster, we still need to do everything possible to save lives and restore order. If all we can do is donate money, then so be it. Some courageous souls actually brave the dangers to bring relief and they deserve our support too.



Here again, as I replied to Di I wonder if all this altruistic trouble and strife is actually going _against_ the natural order of things ... 



> I donate monthly to _medicin sans frontiers _because I know that they will be there as soon as they can. Very often they are there or nearby and ready to go into action very quickly. They will save lives.



Good for you - you should be proud of that. 



Katybug said:


> Yes, it is hard to explain that, Phil.  Seems the looting starts with every catastrophe everywhere.  It's overwhelming to watch the reports tho, so many lives lost and such devastation. Wondering how much the USA will kick in with Haiti remaining our main interest in rebuilding outside our country, when we don't have it to give!



Exactly. And I would further add, fix your own house before you go out to put a new roof on your neighbor's. But that's a disease this country has always had, so I don't see it changing any time soon.


----------



## That Guy (Nov 13, 2013)

"Cloud 9" da Pillapeens!


----------



## Diwundrin (Nov 13, 2013)

Hey, forget the "I'm with" whoevers... Phil and I are far, far closer in accord with many of these things than may be apparent.  We just view it from very different personal physical limitation angles.  ... oh,  and we 'word game' a lot. 

 ... for '_points_'. 

 

My rare empathy with the Fillipinos plight springs mainly from the fact that they get clouted more often than most without even bringing it to notice.  Who knew they were extensively flattened by a typhoon last December?  They didn't call on the World for help, they set about fixing their 'huts' up, themselves.  I can't recall any instance of highly media covered outheld hands from there before this.  

They are serial victims of nature but haven't been serial mendicants because of it.  They're a very practical, even pragmatic, culture.  They sure ain't all Saints, but they are Survivors.  They exhibit much of the behaviours in normal times that Phil professes to espouse. ' Look after yourself and your own first.'  The fact that they are beyond doing that this time simply points up the degree of the disaster, not the inadequacy of the people.

As to the tutting about the gangs and looting... isn't that what survivalists advocate?  Arm yourself, look after yourself, suspend scruples and to hell with the hindmost?  Can't have it both ways Phil. 

 

... better get on with this, my 'spare' time is running out.



> Here again, as I replied to Di I wonder if all this altruistic trouble and strife is actually going _against_ the natural order of things ...


^^^ I wonder about that too.




> ... and that is the Way of Nature. Survival of the fittest. All of this  artificial lengthening of life-spans, every rescue of a disaster-struck  area is another smack in the face of The Way Things Are Meant To Be. We  allow our emotions to get the better of us and fly to the aid of those  who are unlucky, and it seems on the surface to be a wonderful thing,  but in doing so we are messing around with forces that we don't  understand. *Maybe this is Nature's way of saying that the population is  too large ... *



And ain't that the golden kernel at the heart of the planet's problems?

I can't argue with anything else in that paragraph either, as I said, this is a very rare case to have elicited my sympathies.
I think it springs more from respect for their previous fortitude and doing better than most with less for a long time now than from anything 'pollyanna' based.



-------------

Well dammit!  just got a phonecall that the event I got up early and organized for has been put off until Monday!  aaaaaghhhhh!  Send aid! Quick.

siiiiiigh.
------------------
Okay, time for another serve then.

I wondered why you nominated Taiwan as a possible destination when their next door neighbours are Malaysia, and Indonesia?  Why not suggest they all move there?
Surely the fact that they are a predominately Catholic culture and the others are Moslem didn't enter into your strictly 'survivalist' calculations?


----------



## Old Hipster (Nov 13, 2013)

"We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should.” 

Kurt Vonnegut


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## SifuPhil (Nov 13, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Hey, forget the "I'm with" whoevers... Phil and I are far, far closer in accord with many of these things than may be apparent.  We just view it from very different personal physical limitation angles.  ... oh,  and we 'word game' a lot.
> 
> ... for '_points_'.



I'm still 183 behind you ... just give me a little more time ... 



> My rare empathy with the Fillipinos plight springs mainly from the fact that they get clouted more often than most without even bringing it to notice.  Who knew they were extensively flattened by a typhoon last December?  They didn't call on the World for help, they set about fixing their 'huts' up, themselves.  I can't recall any instance of highly media covered outheld hands from there before this.
> 
> They are serial victims of nature but haven't been serial mendicants because of it.  They're a very practical, even pragmatic, culture.  They sure ain't all Saints, but they are Survivors.  They exhibit much of the behaviours in normal times that Phil professes to espouse. ' Look after yourself and your own first.'  The fact that they are beyond doing that this time simply points up the degree of the disaster, not the inadequacy of the people.



A very good point. In fact I'm one of those who don't even remember their December typhoon, so _mea culpa_.



> As to the tutting about the gangs and looting... isn't that what survivalists advocate?  Arm yourself, look after yourself, suspend scruples and to hell with the hindmost?  Can't have it both ways Phil.



No, not at all. At least, not the type of survivalism I'm talking about. 




> ^^^ I wonder about that too.



I know it probably isn't socially acceptable to think that way and certainly not to express it, but ever since I got into Taoist philosophy I've wondered about it.




> And ain't that the golden kernel at the heart of the planet's problems?



It _seems_ to be ... 



> I can't argue with anything else in that paragraph either, as I said, this is a very rare case to have elicited my sympathies.
> I think it springs more from respect for their previous fortitude and doing better than most with less for a long time now than from anything 'pollyanna' based.



I can understand and appreciate that, I really can. Thanks for exposing that angle. 




> I wondered why you nominated Taiwan as a possible destination when their next door neighbours are Malaysia, and Indonesia?  Why not suggest they all move there?
> Surely the fact that they are a predominately Catholic culture and the others are Moslem didn't enter into your strictly 'survivalist' calculations?



Actually, no it did not. Off the top o' my head I just thought that Taiwan was "safer" from typhoons than either Malaysia or Indonesia and had a better infrastructure.


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## Katybug (Nov 13, 2013)

I'm thrilled to see they're coming from every direction with supplies, maybe not nearly enough, but we've seen there are huge heartwarming efforts.  And I guess we didn't give enough thought to complaining about the media not taking a little rationing with them. Stampeding is prevailing and anyone with a little bit of anything for distribution would risk their lives, 8 people reported this afternoon being trampled.  They are so desperate for their families and themselves, it's so hard to watch.  They had nothing to begin with, same as Haiti, and to have to start over??!!  However meagerly any of us may live, these situations make us so grateful for living where we do.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 13, 2013)

Malaysia has a fair bit of 'infrastructure'.





> Tall spires atop the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia make them among the world's tallest buildings, 10 meters higher than the Sears Tower in the USA.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 13, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Malaysia has a fair bit of 'infrastructure'.



Meh ... I worked with the 9/11 clean-up - you couldn't get me _near_ one of those things anymore. 

No, "infrastructure" like vast, flat plains with no trees or buildings over 10' high, no huge rivers to flood, no periodic twisters, no volcanoes to erupt, and laws that demand every person have a go-bag. 

I call it my "Ultimate Kansas Plan". Still working on those twisters, though ...


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## Diwundrin (Nov 13, 2013)

> No, "infrastructure" like vast, flat plains with no trees or buildings  over 10' high, no huge rivers to flood, no periodic twisters, no  volcanoes to erupt, and laws that demand every person have a go-bag.



Could I interest you in a few million acres on the Nullabor Plain?  It nails all of your requisites stated and there are vast tracts that include ocean frontage and views.  Normal agent commission will apply.

For Sale!  
The ultimate getaway destination! 
 This is 'do your own thing' country!
The ideal location for the dedicated 
do- it- yourselfer and independent soul.
Be the first, well almost, to claim your 
own patch of floodfree flat land to build 
the shack of your dreams upon!  
Be quick, the best views in this land 
release will sell fast!


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## SifuPhil (Nov 13, 2013)

That looks PERFECT!!!

... wait ... what about subterranean erosion? Solar flares interfering with electronics? Vapor trails? Meteorite impacts? Roving packs of dissolute, treeless drop bears? 

Do the natives have daughters between the ages of 24 and 35? 

If "NO" to everything but the latter, I'll send my PayPal account number forthwith.


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## Jillaroo (Nov 13, 2013)

_You two crack me up  _:lofl::lofl:


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## Diwundrin (Nov 13, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> That looks PERFECT!!!
> 
> ... wait ... what about subterranean erosion? Solar flares interfering with electronics? Vapor trails? Meteorite impacts? Roving packs of dissolute, treeless drop bears?
> 
> ...



Aahhhh, I see this as being a harder sell than hoped.
Being limestone there are a few massive chasms beneath some areas so geophysic survey will be at purchasers expense.  
The bright side of that though is that those caverns are the only permanent water source for a few thousand Ks.  

Solar flare interferrence is not deemed a problem as there are no facilities for powering electronics there to interfere with.

Vapor trails are considered a welcome occurrence to relieve the monotony of clear blue skies.

Meteorites of considerable proportion have impacted somewhat to the East but no evidence exists of any of note in that region.
... Unless Skylab counts?

Fossil records prove that Drop Bears became extinct in this region some 40,000 years ago.

But yes I do believe daughters of that age would exist, however they would be found to have fled the place when old enough to travel, so finding a free one wandering about would be a very slim chance.

But if this release is no longer of interest please stay in contact, I believe land will soon be available in another area which may suit your needs.
This is the driveway, but of course higher land prices will reflect it's more attractive landscape and geological stability.


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## Katybug (Nov 13, 2013)

Jillaroo said:


> _You two crack me up  _:lofl::lofl:



Aren't they hilarious?  But that photo is one of the most unusual I've ever seen.  Just a weird combo.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 13, 2013)

What photo? What's weird?


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> What photo? What's weird?



I'm scared - hold me ...


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## Judi.D (Nov 14, 2013)

If you are a member of AARP and make a donation to CARE they will match your donation up to $500,000.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 14, 2013)

I wouldn't trust AARP with 5 cents. If they really wanted to help they would do so without making their donation dependent on others donations.


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## Katybug (Nov 14, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> What photo? What's weird?



The photo of Nullabor Plain, Di, sorry I wasn't clear as there are several pix in the thread.  And maybe I should say highly unusual rather than weird.  I have never seen anything like it and glad the pic was posted.


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## Katybug (Nov 14, 2013)

I was highly upset over very negative reports on the Red Cross, as were brought to media attention several years ago. I had the highest regard for them and would have bet the farm that every penny went to where it was supposed to go.  Not so, not during this particular devastation, and I can't remember which one.  But I was very shocked and since then I'm sure they've cleaned up their act.  But it was proven that the funds were being mishandled by executives.  Wish I could remember the story, but when it's being reported by 60 minutes, Diane Sawyer and highly respected journalists, I take it as fact and there was more than a big stir about it.  Again, it's been several yrs ago, but I've never given them a dime since.  I know others mishandle, but the Red Cross???!!!!


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## rkunsaw (Nov 14, 2013)

I remember something about that too, Katybug. The best I recall is that some executives of the red cross were being paid millions from the donations meant to help storm victims. I don't know the current situation but I prefer to keep my donations on a local level. Our government is sending shiploads of supplies so I guess our tax donations are going to help.


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## Katybug (Nov 14, 2013)

Glad you remember it RK, as a few people I've told act as if I read it in a cheap rag mag and don't give any credibility to the story.  I remember it distinctly, just can't remember which disaster, but it was a big one and money was pouring in to them.  I despise the concept of execs robbing from those so desperate!


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## Old Hipster (Nov 14, 2013)

Help has arrived, the USS George Washington is there now. It's a start.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...stated-philippine-coast?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1


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