# British health chiefs have quietly released a warning that Pfizer and Moderna's Covid vaccines may cause heart damage



## hollydolly (Jul 7, 2021)

_Fears about the mRNA jabs' links to myocarditis have grown in recent weeks, following a string of cases in young adults and children in Israel and the US.

Now the UK's drug watchdog has updated its safety information to accept that the condition is a possible side effect of both vaccines, without a formal announcement.

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency insists the complication – inflammation of the heart muscle which can damage the organ over time – is still 'extremely rare' and 'typically mild'.

But it wasn't listed as a potential side effect until last week, when the MHRA released its most up-to-date safety surveillance data.

Cardiologists say the benefits of both jabs still clearly outweigh the risks for the vast majority of the population.

However, they say it 'completely changes' the debate about vaccinating children in Britain. They won't get AstraZeneca's jab because of its links to deadly blood clots in young people.










https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-warnings-Pfizer-Modernas-Covid-vaccines.html_


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## Murrmurr (Jul 7, 2021)

Personally, I think it's careless to give children an mRNA vaccine. Technically, it's experimental; no one is certain about long-term and generational effects.


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## hollydolly (Jul 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Personally, I think it's careless to give children an mRNA vaccine. Technically, it's experimental; no one is certain about long-term and generational effects.


it's _very_ experimental..C-19 have made humans the guinea pigs...  and every Doctor I've spoken to or watched in debate have said they will not be vaccinating their children


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## AnnieA (Jul 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Personally, I think it's careless to give children an mRNA vaccine. Technically, it's experimental; no one is certain about long-term and generational effects.



I agree.  The risk outweighs the benefit for a group that are predominately asymptomatic or very mildly symptomatic when infected.  Now that we know vaccinated people still get milder infections, it makes no sense to give younger people the vaccine in the name of herd immunity.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 7, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> it's _very_ experimental..C-19 have made humans the guinea pigs...  and every Doctor I've spoken to or watched in debate have said they will not be vaccinating their children


The state school board is debating about requiring kids to be vaccinated before schools reopen. So far they're being told there are legal issues, and they can't require students to get any kind of flu vax.


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## chic (Jul 7, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> it's _very_ experimental..C-19 have made humans the guinea pigs...  and every Doctor I've spoken to or watched in debate have said they will not be vaccinating their children


Ditto.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 7, 2021)

Not vaccinating healthy children with an experimental drug was always the sensible thing to do.  This whole vaccination scheme was a "ready, fire, aim" shotgun blast using untested projectiles with unknown ballistics.  Using healthy children and young people as guinea pigs is unconscionable.


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## chic (Jul 7, 2021)

But in the U. S. some have to be vaccinated to be educated. What can we do to reverse that decision?


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## Sunny (Jul 8, 2021)

chic said:


> But in the U. S. some have to be vaccinated to be educated. What can we do to reverse that decision?



And in the U.S., most educated people have been vaccinated.


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## hollydolly (Jul 8, 2021)

Sunny said:


> And in the U.S., most educated people have been vaccinated.


wow!! .. I think there's a lot of people who are educated enough to know when NOT to get vaccinated  ... for many reasons,  and some of those are to do with their health... some are because they already carry immunity..having had the virus already and that includes doctors themselves.. and some because they realise this vaccine has not been tested enough before they can accept it into their bodies......not everyone are sheep.... and not everyone who's not had the vaccine are unintelligent...


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## JonDouglas (Jul 8, 2021)

Sunny said:


> And in the U.S., most educated people have been vaccinated.


And your data/metrics are what - if you got the jab, you're automatically educated but otherwise not?    To add to what @hollydolly said, I know a good number of highly intelligent people who've chosen not to be vaccinated.  I have also known some highly educated people who're dumber than stumps.


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## hollydolly (Jul 8, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> And your data/metrics are what - if you got the jab, you're automatically educated but otherwise not?    To add to what @hollydolly said, I know a good number of highly intelligent people who've chosen not to be vaccinated.  I have also known some highly educated people who're dumber than stumps.


Ditto....


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## win231 (Jul 8, 2021)

Sunny said:


> And in the U.S., most educated people have been vaccinated.


Put Down Artists often have low self esteem.


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## win231 (Jul 8, 2021)

Sunny said:


> And in the U.S., most educated people have been vaccinated.


Sometimes people need to flatter themselves because no one else will.


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## AnnieA (Jul 8, 2021)

Sunny said:


> And in the U.S., most educated people have been vaccinated.


 
Speaking personally,  I'm not vaccinated because I am educated.  My education helped me understand peer reviewed research studies that show I'm at risk of exacerbating pre-existing health conditions by putting an mRNA delivered substance into my body.


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## hollydolly (Jul 8, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Speaking personally,  I'm not vaccinated because I am educated.  My education helped me understand peer reviewed research studies that show I'm at risk of exacerbating pre-existing health conditions by putting an mRNA delivered substance into my body.


Precisely that ^^^^


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## Becky1951 (Jul 8, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> And your data/metrics are what - if you got the jab, you're automatically educated but otherwise not?    To add to what @hollydolly said, I know a good number of highly intelligent people who've chosen not to be vaccinated.  I have also known some highly educated people who're dumber than stumps.


Reminds me of a friend of mine who's son is highly educated, degrees up the ying yang hanging on the wall. She laughs and says, "all those degrees and not a lick of sense."


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## JonDouglas (Jul 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Reminds me of a friend of mine who's son is highly educated, degrees up the ying yang hanging on the wall. She laughs and says, "all those degrees and not a lick of sense."


College degrees only prove you can pass tests and/or please your thesis advisor.  Seriously good memory skills can take you far up the education ladder but not help you apply and/or get creative with what you've memorized.  Fortunately, people are beginning to learn that there's no medical "silver bullet" for influenza strains and those who advocate there are should be viewed with suspicion.


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## chic (Jul 8, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> wow!! .. I think there's a lot of people who are educated enough to know when NOT to get vaccinated  ... for many reasons,  and some of those are to do with their health... some are because they already carry immunity..having had the virus already and that includes doctors themselves.. and some because they realise this vaccine has not been tested enough before they can accept it into their bodies......not everyone are sheep.... and not everyone who's not had the vaccine hare unintelligent...


I agree with @hollydolly. Enough of maligning folks for whom this vaccine isn't right; it's not a one size fits all kind of world. And what of those who cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons? Are they automatically to be considered imbeciles? Not true.


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## win231 (Jul 8, 2021)

chic said:


> I agree with @hollydolly. Enough of maligning folks for whom this vaccine isn't right; it's not a one size fits all kind of world. And what of those who cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons? Are they automatically to be considered imbeciles? Not true.


LOL - it's that old _"I'm smarter'n you 'cuz I did this & you didn't" _complex.


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## Sunny (Jul 8, 2021)

There was a detailed analysis last week in the paper about the areas of the U.S. that had the highest rate of vaccination, and the lowest rate of death from Covid. There was indisputably a much higher number of those who had received the vaccination in the urban centers and areas surrounding colleges, research facilities, and so on.  The areas with the lowest rates of vaccination (although the scientists are _pleading _with people to get the free, life-saving vaccine) are uniformly the rural, conservative, less educated areas.  That's just the facts.

If some of the anti-vaxxers are refusing the vaccine because of medical conditions that preclude it, it's strange that most of them seem to live in the rural, conservative, fearful states.  It couldn't be more clear that there is a connection between education and taking care of one's health.

And yes, I realize that some people probably do have such medical conditions. But we're talking about millions of people here, and most of those millions are refusing the vaccine for other reasons.


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## John cycling (Jul 8, 2021)

Sunny said:


> It couldn't be more clear that there is a connection between education and taking care of one's health.



Anyone who thinks injecting poison in their body is going to make them healthy is not very bright.


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## chic (Jul 8, 2021)

John cycling said:


> Anyone who thinks injecting poison in their body is going to make them healthy is not very bright.


Whether it's poison or not, I cannot say. But many do die from the vaccine or have a serious reaction to it, including young people which is really irresponsible. This vaccine is experimental and I would, after considering everything and this is no easy decision, prefer NOT to have an experimental drug injected into me. One day when more is known about it I may feel differently. This is the hardest decision of a lifetime and not one to be rushed into.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 8, 2021)

"If some of the anti-vaxxers are refusing the vaccine because of medical conditions that preclude it"

*If they have medical conditions that prevent being vaccinated why are you calling them "anti-vaxxers"?*

"There was indisputably a much higher number of those who had received the vaccination in the urban centers and areas surrounding colleges, research facilities, and so on."

*So only educated people live in urban area and around colleges and medical facilities?

Only uneducated people live in rural conservative areas? And fearful states? Fearful states??? What is a fearful state? Which states exactly are those ones?  *

"The areas with the lowest rates of vaccination (although the scientists are pleading with people to get the free, life-saving vaccine) are uniformly the rural, conservative, less educated areas." 

*How can anyone assume that just because a person lives in rural area or a conservative state that they are "uneducated? How can anyone assume that living near a collage or research facility or in an urban area means those people are educated?  
Did those doing the "detailed analysis" go door to door asking for their degrees?  If not then its not a very detailed analysis is it?  *


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## terry123 (Jul 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Reminds me of a friend of mine who's son is highly educated, degrees up the ying yang hanging on the wall. She laughs and says, "all those degrees and not a lick of sense."


Yes I have a nephew like that.  Even his mother says that to me. Love him bunches but the poor thing has no common sense!


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## Furryanimal (Jul 9, 2021)

I had someone on another forum telling me about this a few days ago.They didn’t believe it had not been flagged as a side effect here.But until I saw this post I didn’t know it had been.
Lucky I had the Astra Zeneca...as did a young friend on another forum.They had no problems.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 9, 2021)

Sunny said:


> There was a detailed analysis last week in the paper about the areas of the U.S. that had the highest rate of vaccination, and the lowest rate of death from Covid. There was indisputably a much higher number of those who had received the vaccination in the urban centers and areas surrounding colleges, research facilities, and so on.  The areas with the lowest rates of vaccination (although the scientists are _pleading _with people to get the free, life-saving vaccine) are uniformly the rural, conservative, less educated areas.  That's just the facts.
> 
> If some of the anti-vaxxers are refusing the vaccine because of medical conditions that preclude it, it's strange that most of them seem to live in the rural, conservative, fearful states.  It couldn't be more clear that there is a connection between education and taking care of one's health.
> 
> And yes, I realize that some people probably do have such medical conditions. But we're talking about millions of people here, and most of those millions are refusing the vaccine for other reasons.


Do you not have some concern for the thread topic? Growing evidence that myocarditis _in_ _young people and children_ is linked to the vaccine; that's absolutely frightening.


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## Sunny (Jul 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "If some of the anti-vaxxers are refusing the vaccine because of medical conditions that preclude it"
> 
> *If they have medical conditions that prevent being vaccinated why are you calling them "anti-vaxxers"?*
> 
> ...


There are no "only's," Becky. But there are majority trends. And some areas of the country do have a much higher percentage of highly educated professionals living there; that's just common sense, since that's where the jobs are. And I included college areas, some of which are located in the boondocks, but you can bet that most of the professors in those colleges have been vaccinated. And practically every doctor in the country. The doctors and nurses couldn't wait to get the vaccination; they know what this disease is like.

Look at the charts showing the rate of death from Covid, which conforms very closely to the rate of people not receiving the vaccine.  In my state last month, the _only_ people to die of it were not vaccinated. And look at the states where those high death rates mostly occur. I know you prefer not to see what is obvious, but it's obvious nevertheless. I can't get any deeper into this subject without introducing politics.

For those who have dug their heels in, are supporting (and repeating) every inane argument against fighting this illness, all I can say is, good luck. But I will add: if you read a graphic description of what it is like to become very sick or die of this disease, you might change you mind about "poison, unproven, not 100%", etc. and change your mind.


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## hollydolly (Jul 9, 2021)

Sunny said:


> There are no "only's," Becky. But there are majority trends. And some areas of the country do have a much higher percentage of highly educated professionals living there; that's just common sense, since that's where the jobs are. And I included college areas, some of which are located in the boondocks, but you can bet that most of the professors in those colleges have been vaccinated. And practically every doctor in the country. The doctors and nurses couldn't wait to get the vaccination; they know what this disease is like.
> 
> Look at the charts showing the rate of death from Covid, which conforms very closely to the rate of people not receiving the vaccine.  In my state last month, the _only_ people to die of it were not vaccinated. And look at the states where those high death rates mostly occur. I know you prefer not to see what is obvious, but it's obvious nevertheless. I can't get any deeper into this subject without introducing politics.
> 
> *For those who have dug their heels in, are supporting (and repeating) every inane argument against fighting this illness, all I can say is, good luck. But I will add: if you read a graphic description of what it is like to become very sick or die of this disease, you might change you mind about "poison, unproven, not 100%", etc. and change your mind.*


..I think we're all very aware of the graphicness of the illness.. again not unintelligent.... and some of us have already had the disease, and have suffered the effects...


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## JonDouglas (Jul 9, 2021)

More data - video with inventor of nRNA vaccine.


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## chic (Jul 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> More data - video with inventor of nRNA vaccine.


That's concerning too.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 9, 2021)

chic said:


> That's concerning too.


It should be.   These are knowledgeable people, not three political yahoos and it's starting to get out that the number of adverse reactions is FAR greater than what's being reported in VAERS.  Group think and dognitive dissonance is also dangerous to you health.

PS Edit:  Yes, I know "cognitive" is misspelled - it's my word for doggedly cognitively dissonant.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Jul 9, 2021)

terry123 said:


> Yes I have a nephew like that.  Even his mother says that to me. Love him bunches but the poor thing has no common sense!


Same here, son and wife of my sister in law are both PhDs, she always said she wouldn’t trust him to cross the street!


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## Becky1951 (Jul 9, 2021)

I've thought for some time that our information has been censored in favor of the vaccines, and reports of serious side effects were not fully being reported to the public. As with the breakthrough cases being stopped by CDC reporting. At our ages many are not so concerned with any future repercussions from these vaccines, however our children and grandchildren's health is in jeopardy and possibly their offspring.


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## chic (Jul 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> It should be.   These are knowledgeable people, not three political yahoos and it's starting to get out that the number of adverse reactions is FAR greater than what's being reported in VAERS.  Group think and dognitive dissonance is also dangerous to you health.
> 
> PS Edit:  Yes, I know "cognitive" is misspelled - it's my word for doggedly cognitively dissonant.


I know. I've always believed that the vaccine push is less about health and more about politics and so far, nothing has occurred to change my point of view on this. It's good to hear doctors speaking out on this issue, but so many people are so invested in this course they cannot backtrack from their position and that is the most frightening thing of all.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 9, 2021)

It is clear there are people out there with a strong need to belong or associate with some group think advocacy.  Someone who calls people vaxers or anti-vaxers may be showing their tribal nature.  I suppose the reasons for this are many and complicated; however, I wonder if it isn't a need to feel some associative, tribal superiority in some way.  It is when these people feel compelled to somehow belittle, degrade or censure those not in their tribe that bad things happen.   Such people need to be stood up to because their actions are neither right nor helpful.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 9, 2021)

"I wonder if it isn't a need to feel some associative, tribal superiority in some way. It when these people feel compelled to somehow belittle, degrade or censure those not in their tribe"

Exactly.  Those of us who have posted, commented against the vaccine have not belittled, called names, implied those in favor of the vaccine were uneducated, non patriotic , non caring, stupid, ignorant, etc,  we have no need to follow the group thinking, we are independent in our quest for the truth. And have no need to use bullying belittling comments.


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## hollydolly (Jul 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> More data - video with inventor of nRNA vaccine.


I actually posted this on the forum a week or more ago.. I don't know how many actually watched it through, but not much reaction so I'm guessing there's none so blind who not only will not see, but point blank refuse to see...


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## JonDouglas (Jul 9, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I actually posted this on the forum a week or more ago.. I don't know how many actually watched it through, but not much reaction so I'm guessing there's none so blind who not only will not see, but point blank refuse to see...


it was worth a repost/reminder.

Update note:   It can also be true that the right answer at the wrong time and place may be the wrong answer (for that time and place).


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## hollydolly (Jul 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "I wonder if it isn't a need to feel some associative, tribal superiority in some way. It when these people feel compelled to somehow belittle, degrade or censure those not in their tribe"
> 
> Exactly.  Those of us who have posted, commented against the vaccine have not belittled, called names, implied those in favor of the vaccine were uneducated, non patriotic , non caring, stupid, ignorant, etc,  we have no need to follow the group thinking, we are independent in our quest for the truth. And have no need to use bullying belittling comments.


You know what?..I think a lot of it is fear!...fear that those who are vaccinated and preaching to others , have  potentially  made the wrong decision and that their health has now been put at risk from illnesses in the future of which there may be no cure.. Fear that they've not researched enough..

Why else would it matter to someone who is  fully vaccinated  enough to argue the cause to non vaccinated ,  who have clearly carried out their own research.?

Why would it matter?.. be happy you've made your decision to be vaccinated, that's been your choice, you can go away and feel you've done the right thing for your body..  but trying to convince others to meakly accept a poison into their body because you have.. is ridiculous in the extreme,  and smells of fear..


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## hollydolly (Jul 9, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> it was worth a repost/reminder.
> 
> Update note:   It can also be true that the right answer at the wrong time and place may be the wrong answer (for that time and place).


precisely, so......my point was only that it was placed on the Coronovirus forum, and if people were truly interested in researching what they are putting or about to put inside their own bodies , they would have watched this with great interest ... again.. None so Blind...


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## win231 (Jul 9, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> You know what?..I think a lot of it is fear!...fear that those who are vaccinated and preaching to others , have  potentially  made the wrong decision and that their health has now been put at risk from illnesses in the future of which there may be no cure.. Fear that they've not researched enough..
> 
> Why else would it matter to someone who is  fully vaccinated  enough to argue the cause to non vaccinated ,  who have clearly carried out their own research.?
> 
> Why would it matter?.. be happy you've made your decision to be vaccinated, that's been your choice, you can go away and feel you've done the right thing for your body..  but trying to convince others to meakly accept a poison into their body because you have.. is ridiculous in the extreme,  and smells of fear..


Exactly.  And when others choose not to get vaccinated, it shakes their confidence in the vaccine - which was already shaky to begin with.


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## hollydolly (Jul 9, 2021)

win231 said:


> Exactly.  And when others choose not to get vaccinated, it shakes their confidence in the vaccine - which was already shaky to begin with.


That's precisely what I think.. especially when you have information as we have in the Video above...


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## Sunny (Jul 9, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> You know what?..I think a lot of it is fear!...fear that those who are vaccinated and preaching to others , have  potentially  made the wrong decision and that their health has now been put at risk from illnesses in the future of which there may be no cure.. Fear that they've not researched enough..
> 
> Why else would it matter to someone who is  fully vaccinated  enough to argue the cause to non vaccinated ,  who have clearly carried out their own research.?
> 
> Why would it matter?.. be happy you've made your decision to be vaccinated, that's been your choice, you can go away and feel you've done the right thing for your body..  but trying to convince others to meakly accept a poison into their body because you have.. is ridiculous in the extreme,  and smells of fear..



Holly, every person I know who has been vaccinated, including myself, is VERY glad we were able to get the vaccine. This week, the party room of my building reopened for normal activities, and I was there Monday through Thursday evenings. Every single time I was in that room, I heard someone saying how wonderful it was that we all feel safe again, reasonably safe, anyway. There was absolutely no "fear that we have made the wrong decision," etc. That is such utter nonsense that I am frankly surprised to hear it coming from you.  Where did you ever come up with such an idea?

I am truly gobsmacked by the number of ridiculous arguments against an amazing vaccine that has saved lives, possibly in the millions by now.  Apparently it is impossible to convince some people that the vaccine is a miraculous benefit to mankind, not a "poison," or any other such nonsense. Today's news had the announcement that the level of immunity provided by having had Covid was much weaker than the immunity conferred by the vaccine. So I hope whatever immunity you have from having had the illness is sufficient.

Anyway, practically the only people still even discussing this in this thread are the anti-vaxxers.  The rest of us are grateful and relieved, as far as I can tell. And most of them have had the sense to say goodbye to this discussion.  So enough already. I'm out of this topic. It's a waste of time.


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## hollydolly (Jul 9, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Holly, every person I know who has been vaccinated, including myself, is VERY glad we were able to get the vaccine. This week, the party room of my building reopened for normal activities, and I was there Monday through Thursday evenings. Every single time I was in that room, I heard someone saying how wonderful it was that we all feel safe again, reasonably safe, anyway. There was absolutely no "fear that we have made the wrong decision," etc. That is such utter nonsense that I am frankly surprised to hear it coming from you.  Where did you ever come up with such an idea?
> 
> I am truly gobsmacked by the number of ridiculous arguments against an amazing vaccine that has saved lives, possibly in the millions by now.  Apparently it is impossible to convince some people that the vaccine is a miraculous benefit to mankind, not a "poison," or any other such nonsense. Today's news had the announcement that the level of immunity provided by having had Covid was much weaker than the immunity conferred by the vaccine. So I hope whatever immunity you have from having had the illness is sufficient.
> 
> Anyway, practically the only people still even discussing this in this thread are the anti-vaxxers.  The rest of us are grateful and relieved, as far as I can tell. And most of them have had the sense to say goodbye to this discussion.  So enough already. I'm out of this topic. It's a waste of time.


no-one is arguing about you being grateful... you've got a right to be grateful if that's how you feel .. you/one.. has  no right however to admonish those who have researched and found this vaccine hasn't yet been proven for use within the human body without potential adverse effects.. even after being shown concerns from Virologists and scientists.. and even Doctors who have neither had the vaccine nor will they vaccine their own children.

My own consultant  said that he and his colleagues are  very worried that many people have carried out so little  research before agreeing to this vaccine, they've now dubbed it the 'holiday vaccine''...

..because that's all they are thinking of, as you've just proved.. now they feel they can go on vacation.. holiday.. meet up to play cards.. ... well at 80 odd years old Sunny, this may not concern you at all to have this vaccine so you can play bridge... .. but be sure younger people have whole lives ahead of them to potentially suffer serious side-effects...


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## win231 (Jul 9, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Holly, every person I know who has been vaccinated, including myself, is VERY glad we were able to get the vaccine. This week, the party room of my building reopened for normal activities, and I was there Monday through Thursday evenings. Every single time I was in that room, I heard someone saying how wonderful it was that we all feel safe again, reasonably safe, anyway. There was absolutely no "fear that we have made the wrong decision," etc. That is such utter nonsense that I am frankly surprised to hear it coming from you.  Where did you ever come up with such an idea?
> 
> I am truly gobsmacked by the number of ridiculous arguments against an amazing vaccine that has saved lives, possibly in the millions by now.  Apparently it is impossible to convince some people that the vaccine is a miraculous benefit to mankind, not a "poison," or any other such nonsense. Today's news had the announcement that the level of immunity provided by having had Covid was much weaker than the immunity conferred by the vaccine. So I hope whatever immunity you have from having had the illness is sufficient.
> 
> Anyway, practically the only people still even discussing this in this thread are the anti-vaxxers.  The rest of us are grateful and relieved, as far as I can tell. And most of them have had the sense to say goodbye to this discussion.  So enough already. I'm out of this topic. It's a waste of time.


No, please don't get out of this topic.  How will you feel educated & smart?


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## JonDouglas (Jul 10, 2021)

*A New, Better, non-mRNA Vaccine*?   Am seeing stuff on the newswires about Novavax that suggests it has a significantly higher efficacy and duration than the mRNA vaccines without the nasty side affects or dangers.  Am checking for more info so post it if you have it.


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