# Obama lands in Wales



## Vivjen (Sep 3, 2014)

Just a statement of fact....Obama lands in Wales.


----------



## Pam (Sep 3, 2014)

Croeso!


----------



## Ina (Sep 3, 2014)

What is he going to do there?  :wave:


----------



## Vivjen (Sep 3, 2014)

NATO summit, Ina; he dropped into Estonia at lunchtime, (our lunchtime) on his way.


----------



## Davey Jones (Sep 3, 2014)

NATO summit,like all the past meeting nothing good ever comes out of it


----------



## Falcon (Sep 3, 2014)

Hoop-de-do.


----------



## Geezerette (Sep 3, 2014)

i visited Wales a number of yrs ago; a friend & i were doing a low budget tour of Britain. gorgeous country, really! amazing place names, but i couldn't understand a word those lovely Welsh folks were saying, even when they were speaking English.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 3, 2014)

Well, Australia has just been invited to become an enhanced partner of NATO which is a bit odd given our geography which is nowhere near the Atlantic Ocean, north or south.



> Australia is set to boost ties with the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO), the world’s most powerful political and military grouping.
> 
> Foreign minister Julie Bishop says Australia will accept a formal invitation to become an enhanced partner when she and defence minister David Johnston attend the NATO leaders’ summit in Wales this week.
> 
> ...


Our Foreign Minister and Defence Minister are in Wales to lobby NATO countries about a move to ban Putin from the upcoming G20 Leaders' meeting in Brisbane later this year. We will also be kicking in funds towards the sustainment of Afghanistan’s security forces.

So, it looks like what ever military operations the NATO nations are engaged in, Australia will be there too. That means Russia and China, if push comes to shove. 

I hope it does not.


----------



## Ina (Sep 3, 2014)

Warri I can't tell if you think this is a good thing or not. :wave:


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 3, 2014)

I'm hearing war drums beating, and not just in the Middle East. :distress:


----------



## Ina (Sep 3, 2014)

Do you think you'll be facing this on your soil?


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 3, 2014)

Boots on the ground? Not likely.
Missile attack from China or Russia, possible.

Your bases in the Northern Territory are a tempting target because you need 
a Southern Hemisphere listening post for intelligence and control of drones.

However, if Indonesia lines up against NATO, they would have the capacity to invade from the north.
That would only be likely if we end up fighting a war against all Islam plus Russia and China, in other words World War III.


----------



## Ina (Sep 3, 2014)

So that means our country is putting your in jeopardy. :dunno: :wave:


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 3, 2014)

We aren't complaining.
Before WW II we looked to Britain for protection by a great power.
It was a naïve hope.

With the fall of Singapore and the commencement of the Pacific War we discovered that we could not rely on Britain because she had her hands full in Europe and even tried to prevent our troops detaching from the Middle East to come home to protect Australia.

It was then that we discovered the American Alliance and ever since we have looked towards the US to be our great friend and protector. It is those bases in our north that will ensure that America might actually commit troops to defend Australia should we come under attack. The price for that protection is our ongoing support for American foreign policy, if necessary with our blood.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 4, 2014)

Stop being a sook!  You know we will come to your rescue as we have in the past...


----------



## JustQuinn (Sep 4, 2014)

Dame  Warrigal   dont forget  thatt he  Americans  have just as much to gain from the alliance  as  we  do.    We  are a  convenient  spot  in this  part of the world  for them  to  put their  bases....not  to  mention  an uninterrupted  source  of  cherry  ripes!!


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 4, 2014)

Well, you certainly participated in the Battle of Brisbane


> *The Battle of Brisbane, 26-27 November 1942*
> 
> 
> According to Australian historian Barry Ralph,[SUP][9][/SUP] on 26 November an intoxicated Private James R. Stein of the U.S. 404th Signal Company left the hotel where he had been drinking when it closed at 6:50 pm and began walking to the Post Exchange (PX) on the corner of Creek and Adelaide Street some 50m further down the road. He had stopped to talk with three Australians when Private Anthony E. O'Sullivan of the U.S. 814th Military Police Company (MP) approached and challenged Stein for his leave pass. While Stein was looking for it, the MP became impatient and asked him to hurry up before grabbing his pass and arresting him.
> ...


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 4, 2014)

Had you minded your own business and just let the police do their job this whole appalling incident could have been avoided...


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 4, 2014)

On a serious not for a moment, this story reveals that all was not rosy in Queensland and apparently some sort of mutiny happened among the US military.



> *Secret documents lift lid on WWII mutiny by US troops in north Queensland*
> 
> AM
> by Josh Bavas
> ...


It would be interesting to get confirmation from the American records. What chance of that, do you suppose?

Additional - quite good apparently. This is a part of a report written by Lyndon B Johnson when he was in Townsville. He goes on to give Gen MacArthur a serve.

http://www.ozebook.com/test/townsville-mutiny.pdf


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 4, 2014)

Are you kidding?  Those old skeletons will remain locked in our closet on racial intolerance if at all possible...


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 4, 2014)

Have a look at the extra link I posted at the bottom. It does confirm the incident, if not the details. The writer is LBJ.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 4, 2014)

LBJ knew when to open his mouth and when to keep it closed.  Fragging during the Vietnam War couldn't so easily be covered up...


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 4, 2014)

Fragging?


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 4, 2014)

Fragging was throwing grenades into the tents of officers. Mainly done by black soldiers to white officers I believe...


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 4, 2014)

Seriously? A house divided against itself cannot stand.
How much did marihuana contribute to that?


----------



## Justme (Sep 4, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Fragging was throwing grenades into the tents of officers. Mainly done by black soldiers to white officers I believe...



You are an unpleasant piece of work Ralphy!


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 4, 2014)

Apparently we had a similar problem without the racial undertones.
From an article in one of our newspapers. No details given.



> Woodruff dissects the accepted wisdom that US forces suffered chronically low morale and that "fragging", the murder of officers by rolling grenades into their tents, became a problem. Pure myth. Of the 58,183 Americans killed in the war, 84, or 0.14 per cent, were "fragging" deaths, lower than the "fragging" rate in the Australian forces in Vietnam, where it was never perceived as a problem.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/29/1056825276660.html



No idea how many Aussies died this way. We had a lot less troops over there.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 4, 2014)

Most of these young black soldiers were draftees as many young whites hid out in college or even got married to duck the war--Dick Cheney had seven deferments as I recall, six for staying in college right into graduate school and when that ran out he got married!


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 4, 2014)

Justme, these things do happen. 
I had never heard of this but I've just found a reference to similar events with Aussie troops in Vietnam.



> Vietnam War (Australian forces):
> 
> On 23 November 1969, Lieutenant Robert Thomas Convery of the 9th Battalion of the Royal Australian Regiment was killed when a grenade exploded while he was sleeping in his tent at Nui Dat, South Vietnam. Private Peter Denzil Allen was convicted of Convery's murder and served ten years and eight months of a life sentence in Risdon Prison.[SUP][13][/SUP]
> On Christmas Day 1970, Sergeants Allan Brian Moss and John Wallace Galvin were shot dead and Sergeant Frederick Edwin Bowtell injured when Private Paul Ramon Ferriday opened fire with his rifle into the Sergeant's Mess of the Royal Australian Army Service Corps at Nui Dat, South Vietnam after an all-day drinking session. Ferriday was convicted on two counts of manslaughter and one of assault with a weapon, and served eight years of a ten-year sentence.[SUP][14][/SUP]


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 4, 2014)

Yes, these things do happen, just consider the My Lai massacre.  Also, having spent some time in the Philippines during the Cold War I saw racism on all levels which makes me believe that the black troops in Vietnam did not like the racism that they saw and didn't want to die in the white man's war...


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 4, 2014)

Apparently the rate of these incidents in Iraq was very low and is attributed to an all volunteer army.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Sep 4, 2014)

I agree, but still another stupid war that has left the world in chaos...


----------



## Grumpy Ol' Man (Sep 4, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Apparently the rate of these incidents in Iraq was very low and is attributed to an all volunteer army.



When our son was in Iraq, I quizzed him on his thought of the officer corps.  I knew that there was significant dissent, distruct, and angst between enlisted and officers in Viet Nam.  Our son was quite complimentary of today's officers.  Understand that deployment was with the 82nd Airborne, one of the elite fighting divisions in the world.  I do believe the transition from draftees to all volunteer has helped change the perception of fellow soldiers.


----------



## Grumpy Ol' Man (Sep 4, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I'm hearing war drums beating, and not just in the Middle East. :distress:



Respectfully, I'm not nearly as pessimistic as some.  I believe the three big powers... U.S., Russia, and China... all understand what war between any two of the three would mean to their economies.  The USSR went down due to economic problems, not bombs and missles.  I don't believe Putin wants to go that route again.
There will be posturing.  There will be finger shaking and tough talk.  I don't see it going any further than that.

The much bigger threat is that of radical Islam.  Russia, China, Europe, Africa, Middle East... Not one place in the world is exempt from terrorist activity of jihadists.  The Middle East and North Africa have already been pretty well taken over by the radicals.  They have found their barbaric behaviour gains them footholds that they use to take over large geographic regions.

The larger powers need/want/enjoy petroleum resources from the Islamic countries and don't want to cut those ties.  As more and more Americans, Europeans, Asians, Austrailans, etc. are tortured and beheaded by the likes of ISIS that is where we will see WWIII.  It will be the World against Islam.  By that time, the cancer of the jihadists will have spread to the vital areas of countries all over the world.  And, until the "civilized" world is ready to become just as ruthless as the jihadists... they win.  Many innocents will be lost before someone decides it is either wipe the radicals off the map or suffer their inhuman cruelty.

Sheesh!  And I said I wasn't as pessimistic.  I'm not, when it comes to Russia and China.  I am worried about the long term results of allowing the likes of ISIS to continue gaining ground.


----------

