# Do you think the ancient Egyptians got it right?



## fuzzybuddy (May 1, 2022)

The ancient Egyptians didn't have a wedding ceremony. If you wanted to be a "couple ", you moved in. And if you wanted a divorce, you moved out Also, they weren't all that big on monogamy, either. Considering the trauma of divorces, today, do you think the Egyptians might have gotten it right?


----------



## JonSR77 (May 1, 2022)

The three rings of marriage...

The engagement ring, the wedding ring...and the suffer-ring.

+++++++

Ancient Egypt was a very advanced society in many ways. They had a deep bureaucracy, layered, complex. They had a middle class, some advanced math, advanced tools...all kinds of things.

So, any ideas they had seem worth investigating.

++++++

I don't think the institution of marriage that we have needs amending. 

I think everything around it needs amending. We let our children jump into ****** relationships without meaning. People don't take the time to get to know each other before marriage. We do so many things wrong. If we did those things right, I don't think the divorce rate would be anything close to what it is.

Too much financial pressure on relationships. Both parents have to work. No time for the kids, no time for the relationship.

Top to bottom, many things need to change.


----------



## Tish (May 1, 2022)

@fuzzybuddy Yes, I think they got it right, in their own hedonistic way.
It's when religion comes into things that things get so much more complicated.


----------



## Warrigal (May 1, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> The ancient Egyptians didn't have a wedding ceremony. If you wanted to be a "couple ", you moved in. And if you wanted a divorce, you moved out Also, they weren't all that big on monogamy, either. Considering the trauma of divorces, today, do you think the Egyptians might have gotten it right?


Inbreeding was also common.


----------



## JonSR77 (May 1, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> Inbreeding was also common.



Yes, many of them left the Mid-East, slowly traveled to what is now Ireland, made the journey across the sea and settled in Appalachia. They introduced the banjo and harmonica to the New World, as well as the greeting card, "Happy Birthday, Uncle-Dad."


----------



## Lavinia (May 1, 2022)

Not just the Ancient Egyptians. The Celts paired up with someone for just a year. At the end of the year, they then decided whether they wanted to continue together for another year, or split up. As a result, many women had children with different fathers. The fathers acknowledged their children and were responsible for their welfare. The boys were taught the skills they needed to be part of the community....using weapons, hunting etc....the girls were taught feminine skills. Older people were not discarded....they helped educate the children and continued to contribute to the community as long as they were able to.
This is a much more natural way of life for humans, and is still followed by 'primitive' societies.


----------



## Alligatorob (May 1, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> Yes, many of them left the Mid-East, slowly traveled to what is now Ireland, made the journey across the sea and settled in Appalachia. They introduced the banjo and harmonica to the New World, as well as the greeting card, "Happy Birthday, Uncle-Dad."


----------



## MountainRa (May 1, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> Yes, many of them left the Mid-East, slowly traveled to what is now Ireland, made the journey across the sea and settled in Appalachia. They introduced the banjo and harmonica to the New World, as well as the greeting card, "Happy Birthday, Uncle-Dad."


I realize you meant this to be funny. But I would like to ask you to consider that this is the continuation of an insulting stereotype. 
I also understand that it is still acceptable in the USA to insult and ridicule the people of Appalachia and the South but it sure gets old after awhile.


----------



## Alligatorob (May 1, 2022)

MountainRa said:


> I also understand that it is still acceptable in the USA to insult and ridicule the people of Appalachia and the South


I am from the South, as I believe you are.  I kind of like it, do it myself...  However I guess all us Rednecks and Crackers don't...


----------



## fuzzybuddy (May 1, 2022)

MountainRa said:


> I realize you meant this to be funny. But I would like to ask you to consider that this is the continuation of an insulting stereotype.
> I also understand that it is still acceptable in the USA to insult and ridicule the people of Appalachia and the South but it sure gets old after awhile.


Nope. Not as a joke. I wondered if marriage was not such a huge production- a  formal wedding, and a protracted, bitter divorce in the courts; than we may avoid a lot of emotional turmoil?????
I've known a few couples, who thought they wanted to marry, but had second opinions, but because of the looming planned formal wedding, they were forced into marriage.  Of course the marriages lasted less than a year or two.
I believe that it was the royal family which practiced incest to ensure the blood was kept royal, as they were gods, I'm not sure this was a general practice.


----------



## JonSR77 (May 1, 2022)

MountainRa said:


> I realize you meant this to be funny. But I would like to ask you to consider that this is the continuation of an insulting stereotype.
> I also understand that it is still acceptable in the USA to insult and ridicule the people of Appalachia and the South but it sure gets old after awhile.


well, to be honest, you are certainly correct about that.

I used to perform as a stand-up comedian, back in the 90s.

Pretty much, no matter what you say onstage, it will offend someone.


So, there is a general "agreement" between the performer and audience, what kinds of subjects are ok.


So, you don't go to West Virginia and tell hillbilly jokes.

But, it is such a generalized thing...like marriage jokes...that commonly, there is an understanding that it is just all in good fun and not any kind of real criticism of the people from that area.


Again, if you are performing that part of the country, you don't tell those jokes. But because it is generalized and "known" that it is all in good fun....hillbilly jokes are generally accepted as fair game.


If you think this is offensive, I was once taken to a gig. I had prepared a bunch of Mafia jokes. Sitting right in the front row, was the actual NJ Mafia.

Can't make that up.

Not a good show.

And, no, I didn't tell a single Mafia joke...just made up stuff on the fly and completely bombed.


----------



## JonSR77 (May 1, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Nope. Not as a joke. I wondered if marriage was not such a huge production- a  formal wedding, and a protracted, bitter divorce in the courts; than we may avoid a lot of emotional turmoil?????
> I've known a few couples, who thought they wanted to marry, but had second opinions, but because of the looming planned formal wedding, they were forced into marriage.  Of course the marriages lasted less than a year or two.
> I believe that it was the royal family which practiced incest to ensure the blood was kept royal, as they were gods, I'm not sure this was a general practice.



I think it is about the entirety of the culture, not just marriage itself. If the entirety of the culture is balanced and healthy and supports the human spirit...it is good.

I think, generally, cultural concepts that developed (and were refined) over the course of thousands of years...tend to have a lot of merit, or, at least, some good merit.

So, I have great respect for the ancient Egyptian culture. And also, all the major ancient cultures....China, Indus Valley, Greek, Roman, etc. etc. So many of these ancient cultures achieved incredible things.

I took The Teaching Company's course on Egyptian History. Was wonderful. The professor that they got to teach it, does TV shows for the History Channel, National Geographic and on.

He got permission from the Egyptian government to take a cadaver and embalm the cadaver according to the ancient mummification rituals of Egyptian culture...was incredibly fascinating.


----------



## oldpeculier (May 1, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> Yes, many of them left the Mid-East, slowly traveled to what is now Ireland, made the journey across the sea and settled in Appalachia. They introduced the banjo and harmonica to the New World, as well as the greeting card, "Happy Birthday, Uncle-Dad."


https://mcclungmuseum.utk.edu/exhibitions/the-banjo-from-africa-to-america-and-beyond/
http://www.banjohistory.com/article/detail/1_gourd_banjos_from_africa_to_the_appalachians
https://www.npr.org/2008/10/12/95607716/bringing-the-banjo-from-africa-to-appalachia


----------



## MountainRa (May 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I am from the South, as I believe you are.  I kind of like it, do it myself...  However I guess all us Rednecks and Crackers don't...


You are right, we are good at laughing at ourselves. Just ask that you laugh with us and not at us.


----------



## oldpeculier (May 1, 2022)

MountainRa said:


> I realize you meant this to be funny. But I would like to ask you to consider that this is the continuation of an insulting stereotype.
> I also understand that it is still acceptable in the USA to insult and ridicule the people of Appalachia and the South but it sure gets old after awhile.


I agree, the fk'ing joke is old.


----------



## Paco Dennis (May 1, 2022)

It would surely cut down on the divorce rate.


----------



## Nathan (May 1, 2022)

MountainRa said:


> I realize you meant this to be funny. But I would like to ask you to consider that this is the continuation of an insulting stereotype.
> I also understand that it is still acceptable in the USA to insult and ridicule the people of Appalachia and the South but it sure gets old after awhile.


Several Southern boys- Jeff Foxworthy, Larry the Cable Guy, Bill Engvall, and Ron White performed as the Blue Collar Comedy Tour, and made pretty good money poking fun at the Southern stereotypes.  They were hilarious, drew huge crowds of rednecks that just had a good time, and weren't offended.


----------



## Alligatorob (May 1, 2022)

Nathan said:


> drew huge crowds of rednecks that just had a good time, and weren't offended.


The annual "White Trash Bash" near where I used to live always draws a crowd, of well real white trash... https://www.markwallheiser.com/image/I0000u583UklAq3E  Totally non commercial and sponsored by no one, so far as I know the only money to be made is by the local liquor stores.


----------



## fuzzybuddy (May 1, 2022)

I was unable to attend my niece's elaborate wedding, because I had a spinal condition and couldn't drive. My ex sister-in -law still detests me because I didn't come. That was 48 years ago. I just wonder if marriage and divorce wasn't such a big thing, maybe we wouldn't have all these emotions about it???????


----------



## Em in Ohio (May 1, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> The ancient Egyptians didn't have a wedding ceremony. If you wanted to be a "couple ", you moved in. And if you wanted a divorce, you moved out Also, they weren't all that big on monogamy, either. Considering the trauma of divorces, today, do you think the Egyptians might have gotten it right?


I'm with them - as long as the issues of parenthood are addressed.  For couples without children and taking precautions to avoid "accidental pregnancy," I would prefer to see this arrangement.  Divorces are devastating on so many levels.  This arrangement seems more rational.  As for monogamy, hmm - I'm not sure that is comes naturally.  Two emotions that often seem stronger than that of love are greed (as in possessiveness) and jealousy.  Hmm... am I describing a society where living is more communal and all people take care each other and all people take care of the children without regard to who biologically parented them?  Am I having flashbacks to the early 70's, haha?


----------



## Wren (May 1, 2022)

Nathan said:


> Several Southern boys- Jeff Foxworthy, Larry the Cable Guy, Bill Engvall, and Ron White performed as the Blue Collar Comedy Tour, and made pretty good money poking fun at the Southern stereotypes.  They were hilarious, drew huge crowds of rednecks that just had a good time, and weren't offended.


Ah the good old days when people didn’t get offended at the drop of a hat, could laugh at themselves and give as good as they got.......


----------



## Alligatorob (May 1, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> I'm with them - as long as the issues of parenthood are addressed. For couples without children and taking precautions to avoid "accidental pregnancy," I would prefer to see this arrangement. Divorces are devastating on so many levels. This arrangement seems more rational. As for monogamy, hmm - I'm not sure that is comes naturally.


That makes sense, though the legal complexities of modern marriages go beyond child support.  However, I think that is the most important one. 

You also have the problems of equity distribution, and sometimes economic consideration for a partner who may have given up a career to raise children.  We need some kind of legal structure to help with issues of this kind.

You maybe right about the naturalness of monogamy, for some people anyway...


----------



## Em in Ohio (May 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> That makes sense, though the legal complexities of modern marriages go beyond child support.  Though I think that is the most important one.
> 
> You also have the problems of equity distribution, and sometimes economic consideration for a partner who may have given up a career to raise children.  We need some kind of legal structure to help with issues of this kind.
> 
> You maybe right about the naturalness of monogamy, for some people anyway...


I'm pretty sure I was just having a flashback!  (And it was only that of an idealistic - and no-doubt unrealistic - young woman!  I never lived the dream.)


----------



## helenbacque (May 1, 2022)

Marriages down because of Covid?    The 'ceremony/party' is more important than the commitment.


----------



## Remy (May 1, 2022)

I could be totally wrong on this and I'm not researching (so correct me if I'm wrong) but I remember reading once that marriages were contracts more to protect property and assets rather than as a romantic type bond. Even in ancient times. I don't know.


----------



## Remy (May 1, 2022)

helenbacque said:


> Marriages down because of Covid?    The 'ceremony/party' is more important than the commitment.


I've also read that those quickie marriages, including Las Vegas and Reno actually have a higher success rate than traditional marriages. Probably because it is more about the marriage vs. the whole shebang. Those shows like Say Yes To The Dress are insane.


----------



## Packerjohn (May 1, 2022)

I'm from Canada.  Let me tell you that weddings and funerals are just a big racket here.  I don't mean that you shouldn't celebrate your BIG day but, hey, 1/2 of the weddings end up in divorce anyway.  As for funerals go with the simple cremation.  Forget those Hollywood Mafia type of funerals with tons of flowers and 4 black limos.  Maybe it's great for Hollywood but the guy/gal is dead anyway and they don't know what the hack is happening.  Save your money and buy the flowers for the living; not the dead. 

That's what I did when my wife was living; I bought her a bunch of flowers every week.  I'm glad I did it but I did it when she was living and she loved those flowers.  Flowers at funerals are a waste of money unless you are set on supporting the flower shops.  Ditto for expensive caskets and everything else that the sneeky funeral director throws at you.


----------



## officerripley (May 1, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> It would surely cut down on the divorce rate.


Plus, maybe it'd cut down on the Rolexes and Lamborghinis owned by divorce attorneys.


----------



## officerripley (May 1, 2022)

oldpeculier said:


> Ah, the good old days when my ancestors fought, two wounded, in two world wars and saved the chicken-chit, piss-in-their-panties cowards in that chithole place called Europe, and will probably have to do it again.


Whoa there, Sonny. Hope you're joking or else referring to the SOME of the European GOVERNMENTS, not the individual citizens, for instance the French Resistance, the Polish Resistance (in WW2 anyway; I confess my knowledge of WW2 is a little better than that of WW1). Good grief, there was a Polish Airforce operation called Operation Anthropoid, a WWII mission to assassinate SS General Reinhard Heydrich, the main architect behind the Final Solution and the Reich's third in command after Hitler and Himmler. Even a great movie based on the subject:






Even if you could prove to me that every single European during the 2 WW's was a coward, I suspect there were at least some right here in the USA; I remember hearing in high sch. history class about all the protests going on here in the usa against us entering WW2.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (May 1, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> The three rings of marriage...
> 
> The engagement ring, the wedding ring...and the suffer-ring.
> 
> ...


Hopefully most parents don't "let" their children jump into ****** relationships but try to sway them from it. Though I did see an episode of Oprah on which it was revealed mothers of young teens were advising their daughters to give oral sex rather than have intercourse so they would avoid pregnancy. I was flabbergasted. BTW these girls looked like the classic all American (Caucasian) girls.  I couldn't have even broached such a subject with my parents!


----------



## oldpeculier (May 1, 2022)

officerripley said:


> Whoa there, Sonny. Hope you're joking or else referring to the SOME of the European GOVERNMENTS, not the individual citizens, for instance the French Resistance, the Polish Resistance (in WW2 anyway; I confess my knowledge of WW2 is a little better than that of WW1). Good grief, there was a Polish Airforce operation called Operation Anthropoid, a WWII mission to assassinate SS General Reinhard Heydrich, the main architect behind the Final Solution and the Reich's third in command after Hitler and Himmler. Even a great movie based on the subject:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Many individual European citizens were collaborators and Nazi's.

My comments were directed at Wren, listed location of Europe. I might have to take the ridicule here in the US but I'll be damned if somebody from Europe has a right to throw down on all us southern boys, us rednecks. 

Funny, I remember a thread about Cali. Folks were throwing down on your state. Some of you gave it right back.

It seems some people on here find it comical to ridicule and make fun at southern appalachian people. It's not funny. It's old. We don't appreciate the hurtful insults. Lived with that BS all my life. You think I am being over sensitive, or can't take a joke from a high IQ comic and then belittled by somebody in Europe because of the good old days? I'll give what I get.

Some "friendly" forum this is. And, I am not your Sonny.


----------



## officerripley (May 1, 2022)

oldpeculier said:


> Many individual European citizens were collaborators and Nazi's.
> 
> My comments were directed at Wren, listed location of Europe. I might have to take the ridicule here in the US but I'll be damned if somebody from Europe has a right to throw down on all us southern boys, us rednecks.
> 
> ...


Well, now I wasn't even thinking about Calif. or Appalachia either one, just the European "cowards" you referred to in your comment. And I didn't mean anything insulting by "Sonny", it just kinda refers to someone younger than I. But I can see you're sensitive about it; so I'll try to remember not to use it with you and you have a nice rest of the weekend now.


----------



## Warrigal (May 1, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Nope. Not as a joke. I wondered if marriage was not such a huge production- a  formal wedding, and a protracted, bitter divorce in the courts; than we may avoid a lot of emotional turmoil?????
> I've known a few couples, who thought they wanted to marry, but had second opinions, but because of the looming planned formal wedding, they were forced into marriage.  Of course the marriages lasted less than a year or two.
> I believe that it was the royal family which practiced incest to ensure the blood was kept royal, as they were gods, I'm not sure this was a general practice.


Yes. I was the one who raised this red herring. The Pharaohs married close family relatives to protect the "pure" bloodline. The Jewish scriptures are very specific about who can and cannot marry and I wonder whether this was a reaction against the customs of other cultures of the times.

Those of us from the monotheistic traditions tend to assume that our taboos are the same for other cultures but that is not necessarily the case. In Australian indigenous culture there are taboos based on 'skin' groupings. Just as totem group defines the foods one may not eat so skin group defines who you cannot marry. I'm not sure how skin group is defined. I'll leave that to someone who is better informed.

For anyone who wants to know more, try Wiki but it is clear as mud to me. Perhaps the ancient Egyptians had similar systems based on the various gods that were worshipped. I don't know, but I doubt that they had the same taboos that we have today.

Australian Aboriginal kinship - Wikipedia


----------



## Alligatorob (May 1, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> I'm pretty sure I was just having a flashback! (And it was only that of an idealistic - and no-doubt unrealistic - young woman! I never lived the dream.)


LOL, if all of us "_lived the dream_" many would likely be in trouble now.


----------



## grahamg (May 1, 2022)

Tish said:


> @fuzzybuddy Yes, I think they got it right, in their own hedonistic way.
> It's when religion comes into things that things get so much more complicated.


I couldn't disagree more, but there we go, (a man with the extraordinary name of Eustace Chesser agreed with you however, writing a book on practises regarding marriage or couples around the world forty or more years ago).
However, on one point I agree, and it is that when marriages are seen as optional, or disposable on a whim, (or not much more), then definitely don't enter a marriage or have such an institution in the first place!


----------



## grahamg (May 1, 2022)

oldpeculier said:


> Ah, the good old days when my ancestors fought, two wounded, in two world wars and saved the chicken-chit, piss-in-their-panties cowards in that chithole place called Europe, and will probably have to do it again.


You're not trying to wind anyone up here by any chance are you, (what would Churchill have had to say to you, who lauded America for coming to the aid of the "old world", i.e. "there before you were even thought of"!  ).


----------



## Wren (May 2, 2022)

Seems  like I inadvertently opened a can of worms with my tongue in cheek comment on this thread, my profuse apologies to oldpeculier in particular and anybody else I may have offended


----------



## oldpeculier (May 2, 2022)

Wren said:


> Seems  like I inadvertently opened a can of worms with my tongue in cheek comment on this thread, my profuse apologies to oldpeculier in particular and anybody else I may have offended


Apology accepted.


----------



## JimBob1952 (May 2, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> Yes, many of them left the Mid-East, slowly traveled to what is now Ireland, made the journey across the sea and settled in Appalachia. They introduced the banjo and harmonica to the New World, as well as the greeting card, "Happy Birthday, Uncle-Dad."


 People who live in Appalachia are Scots-Irish -- Protestants from what is now Northern Ireland (plus some straight from Scotland).  Irish Catholics didn't go to Appalachia, settling in the big cities instead.   

If you're going to insult people, you might as well get your ethnicities straight.


----------



## grahamg (May 2, 2022)

Wren said:


> Seems  like I inadvertently opened a can of worms with my tongue in cheek comment on this thread, my profuse apologies to oldpeculier in particular and anybody else I may have offended


You again!, (  )


----------

