# National guard troops to the border



## Traveler (Apr 4, 2018)

It was announced today that U.S. National Guard troops would be sent to the U.S./Mexican border in a back-up role supporting the Border agents.  The border agents have only 16,000 personnel in place, and that is woefully short of what is needed.

Last month alone, the border agents arrested 37,393 illegal aliens as they crossed the border. That is an astronomical number of people. Most of them have been apprehended multiple times. Some, not all of them, are drug smugglers and other criminal types. 

Last week, when I spoke with an agent at the border, he told me they find many different nationalities illegally crossing the border, Primarily, he said, they are Mexicans but also Russians, Africans, Chinese, and other Central American nations and South Americans as well.

I live within sight of the border and I see arrests being made daily. It is quite normal for drugs to be smuggled in the states in routine auto crossings. Just yesterday a Mexican woman was arrested for trying to smuggle 125 kilos of cocaine hidden in her car.

The volume of drugs intercepted is truly amazing. A month or so ago the Coast Guard grabbed 8 tons of cocaine in one semi-submersible submarine. 

Within the last 2 years, 4 major tunnels were discovered, I'm not talking about small tunnels where people must crawl. I'm talking about MAJOR tunnels designed by Mexican engineers complete with narrow gauge "railroads" powered by motor cycles. Those tunnels are used to smuggle drugs as well as people. It is said that it costs $1,500/person to be smuggled into the U.S. 

US. National Guard on the border ? Yes ! It's about time


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## Butterfly (Apr 4, 2018)

Traveler said:


> It was announced today that U.S. National Guard troops would be sent to the U.S./Mexican border in a back-up role supporting the Border agents.  The border agents have only 16,000 personnel in place, and that is woefully short of what is needed.
> 
> Last month alone, the border agents arrested 37,393 illegal aliens as they crossed the border. That is an astronomical number of people. Most of them have been apprehended multiple times. Some, not all of them, are drug smugglers and other criminal types.
> 
> ...



Which is why I do not think the Wall will work.


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> Which is why I do not think the Wall will work.




Nothing works 100% of the time. Even state prisons with a high degree of security have escapes. BUT, the wall WILL work to the extent that it will dramatically reduce the number of illegal aliens. 

There are other options in addition to the wall. You may be unaware that the Mexican Federal government actively participates in assisting those who are try to enter the U.S, illegally. One of the next steps might be to limit the number of LEGAL crossings.

Example: The San Ysidro/ Tijuana land border crossing is the busiest border crossing in the world, 8 million crossings/year.  If the Mexican government does not dramatically slow down the illegals, the next step COULD be to cut the number of LEGAL crossings to 50% of the current number.

If that does not have a dramatic impact, then another option could be to stop all money wire transfers into Mexico. Migrants working in the U.S send billions and billions of dollars back home to their Mexican families. 

We have practically an unlimited number of option available to us. We are, after all, The United States Of America.


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## Shalimar (Apr 5, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Nothing works 100% of the time. Even state prisons with a high degree of security have escapes. BUT, the wall WILL work to the extent that it will dramatically reduce the number of illegal aliens.
> 
> There are other options in addition to the wall. You may be unaware that the Mexican Federal government actively participates in assisting those who are try to enter the U.S, illegally. One of the next steps might be to limit the number of LEGAL crossings.
> 
> ...


Some of my relatives once sported yellow stars. They couldn’t send money out of the country either. The gov’t also had practically unlimited options. Slippery slope.


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Some of my relatives once sported yellow stars. They couldn’t send money out of the country either. The gov’t also had practically unlimited options. Slippery slope.



*
No slippery slope about it. Entirely different scenario*. Your relatives were in mortal danger. The illegal aliens trying to cross into the United  States are in no danger from their own government. If they stay put in their own country then the U.S. has no issue with them
There can be no possible correlation between Nazi Germany and the United States.  The United States is merely trying to stem the tidal wave of illegals but does not wish them any harm. Nazi Germany was actively murdering the German Jews and destroying their peaceful business' and burning the synagogues. I'm sure you remember "Kristallnacht".

Lastly, and perhaps the biggest difference is that the Jews of Nazi Germany were peaceful, law abiding, citizens of Germany. The illegal aliens trying enter America are NOT Americans citizens . Entirely different scenario.


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## Shalimar (Apr 5, 2018)

Traveler said:


> *
> No slippery slope about it. Entirely different scenario*. Your relatives were in mortal danger. The illegal aliens trying to cross into the United  States are in no danger from their own government. If they stay put in their own country then the U.S. has no issue with them
> There can be no possible correlation between Nazi Germany and the United States.  The United States is merely trying to stem the tidal wave of illegals but does not wish them any harm. Nazi Germany was actively murdering the German Jews and destroying their peaceful business' and burning the synagogues. I'm sure you remember "Kristallnacht".
> 
> Lastly, and perhaps the biggest difference is that the Jews of Nazi Germany were peaceful, law abiding, citizens of Germany. The illegal aliens trying enter America are NOT Americans citizens . Entirely different scenario.



Hmm. I think the the thousands of unaccompanied preteen children escaping  gang infested city hellholes of Central  and South America might dispute your assertion regarding their safety in the hands of corrupt home govts. If we do not protect children, we have forfeited all pretence of humanity,  never mind supposedly being Christian nations.


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Hmm. I think the the thousands of unaccompanied preteen children escaping  gang infested city hellholes of Central  and South America might dispute your assertion regarding their safety in the hands of corrupt home govts. If we do not protect children, we have forfeited all pretence of humanity,  never mind supposedly being Christian nations.




We can not be the police for the entire globe. If the people of Central America can not elect competent governments there is zero we can do about that. Maybe Canada wants to take on some of the burden. Perhaps move all 20,000,000 them to Vancouver ? Actually that would be a win-win situation. The kids could get free food, housing, medical care, and schooling; and Canada could get to feel superior. 

Of course, when the kids grow into teenage gangsters, like the ultra-violent M-13 gangs, they would be at your throats. Just like they are in America. 

Honestly, I don't think Canadians have any idea of what we are facing. It's real easy to judge America. Mexico does not share a common border with Canada. And Canadians can thank their lucky stars for that. 

Just don't demand that America do any more. We have enough problems .


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## Shalimar (Apr 5, 2018)

Traveler said:


> We can not be the police for the entire globe. If the people of Central America can not elect competent governments there is zero we can do about that. Maybe Canada wants to take on some of the burden. Perhaps move all 20,000,000 them to Vancouver ? Actually that would be a win-win situation. The kids could get free food, housing, medical care, and schooling; and Canada could get to feel superior.
> 
> Of course, when the kids grow into teenage gangsters, like the ultra-violent M-13 gangs, they would be at your throats. Just like they are in America.
> 
> ...



I am not demanding anything, merely offering an alternate point of view. That is what debate is about. As for possible feelings of superiority being ascribed to those of us living under the Maple Leaf, cheap shot. My goodness, can’t we disagree without taking things personally? Currently, I work with child refugees, most of whom suffer from PTSD. I have lost three of 

them to suicide in less than a year, I assure you superior is the last thing I feel. As for being ignorant of what America faces, no Canuck with my background who has worked  in the trenches for decades has an ounce of naievete. However, your narrative is not embraced by all, any more than mine. Such is the blessing of freedom. The right to freely disagree, whether in a republic, or constitutional monarchy. Pax.


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## dpwspringer (Apr 5, 2018)

I believe we need to act like a sovereign country and protect our borders. And how best to do that, as well as when to do what, is a dynamic situation. Right now we need to stop the flood of illegal crossings. Once we get a handle on that, or perhaps at the same time, we can re-visit many of the well intention immigration policies that are being gamed/misused in ways that are against the best interest of the USA and it's citizens.


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## TonyK (Apr 5, 2018)

According to Politifact, the Pew Research Center's statistics from 2007 to 2016 are reliable figures to analyze the trend. In 2007, there were 809,000 illegal Mexican immigrants apprehended on the Southern border. In 2016, that figure was reduced to 191,000. The Pew Research Center pointed out that more Mexican illegal immigrants have LEFT the US since 2007 than have entered the US due to the recession. That figure is at least one million.

It is impossible to know for certain how many illegal immigrants there are in the US. But one growing problem is the rise in illegal immigrants coming from many other countries besides Mexico. They are not all crawling across the Southern border.


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## Robusta (Apr 5, 2018)

There is a very simple answer.  The Chamber of Commerce blocks it at every opportunity.  Prosecute the employers of undocumented workers. Levy massive crippling fines! Limiting the amount of money sent home would also be very helpful.

We are a bipolar nation!


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## Sunny (Apr 5, 2018)

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

Mexican immigration into the US is at the lowest point that it's been in many years.  More Mexicans are leaving the US than coming here. This is partly due to the improved Mexican economy, the US recession, and law enforcement. The wall has never been as NOT needed as it is now. It's a sham, dreamed up to entice voters.

Do we really have no other uses for that money?


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## JB in SC (Apr 5, 2018)

TonyK said:


> According to Politifact, the Pew Research Center's statistics from 2007 to 2016 are reliable figures to analyze the trend. In 2007, there were 809,000 illegal Mexican immigrants apprehended on the Southern border. In 2016, that figure was reduced to 191,000. The Pew Research Center pointed out that more Mexican illegal immigrants have LEFT the US since 2007 than have entered the US due to the recession. That figure is at least one million.
> 
> It is impossible to know for certain how many illegal immigrants there are in the US. But one growing problem is the rise in illegal immigrants coming from many other countries besides Mexico. They are not all crawling across the Southern border.



No way to know for sure, it appears they relied on a Mexican 2014 survey. The southern border is by far the point of least resistance for crossings. Easy for anyone with money. There are plenty of dangerous people coming here legally.


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## JB in SC (Apr 5, 2018)

Robusta said:


> There is a very simple answer.  The Chamber of Commerce blocks it at every opportunity.  Prosecute the employers of undocumented workers. Levy massive crippling fines! Limiting the amount of money sent home would also be very helpful.
> 
> We are a bipolar nation!



They love cheap labor...


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## squatting dog (Apr 5, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Some of my relatives once sported yellow stars. They couldn’t send money out of the country either. The gov’t also had practically unlimited options. Slippery slope.



I assume you're talking about nazi Germany. If so, then I'd have to say that Jewish folk in Israel have learned that a wall can work.  Just saying.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 5, 2018)

squatting dog said:


> I assume you're talking about nazi Germany. If so, then I'd have to say that Jewish folk in Israel have learned that a wall can work.  Just saying.



Yes, an _illegal_ wall. 

Israel Resumes Construction of Illegal Wall


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

I feel it is important to point out one inescapable fact. The people of the Central American nations have created their own problems. Let them solve those problems. If they can't solve those problems, or just don't care enough to solve them, then let them stew in their own juices. 

I, of course, realize that their are many who, for some truly bizarre reasons, want open borders and would, if given a chance, tear down the existing fences and walls. 

There are others who care about America, (mostly retirees) and they assist the American border agents, by setting up border watch points along the vast stretchers of the border where there are no walls or fences what-so-ever. Those groups are equipped with radios to call in the border agents as needed. This can be a dangerous activity, as violent drug runners can pop up. More power to the brave, patriotic Americans who care about our country.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 5, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Some of my relatives once sported yellow stars. They couldn’t send money out of the country either. The gov’t also had practically unlimited options. Slippery slope.



I have to say, I resent the comparison of the USA to Nazi Germany.   This is over the top, IMO.


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## Sunny (Apr 5, 2018)

> I feel it is important to point out one inescapable fact. The people of  the Central American nations have created their own problems. Let them  solve those problems. If they can't solve those problems, or just don't  care enough to solve them, then let them stew in their own juices.



Here's another unescapable fact, which has been mentioned several times already in this thread. Read my lips, Traveler:  The wall is not needed.  Mexican immigration to the US has gone way down. More Mexicans are going in the other direction. So, why spend billions of our tax dollars on a totally unnecessary wall?


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## JB in SC (Apr 5, 2018)

Nothing implies there won't be another surge of illegal immigration in the future. If California offers health care and other services free to illegals why would they not cross the border?

In all seriousness, what is the tipping point? I think the 11 million (or more) already here are more than enough for a while.


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## Ken N Tx (Apr 5, 2018)

Any stats on what other countries are coming through Mexico into the US???


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## C'est Moi (Apr 5, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Here's another unescapable fact, which has been mentioned several times already in this thread. Read my lips, Traveler:  The wall is not needed.  Mexican immigration to the US has gone way down. More Mexicans are going in the other direction. So, why spend billions of our tax dollars on a totally unnecessary wall?


The immigration rate has gone down because of more stringent policies and because illegals are realizing that there is finally some action being taken to stem the flow.   If the wall is abandoned, the rates will increase again as they will see it as the US "backing down".   The government wastes money all day, every day on things that are pointless.   I don't believe the wall is pointless.


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## Knight (Apr 5, 2018)

Why not use the same immigration laws Canada or Mexico has? Obviously the laws in place in America aren't working. Netflix has an excellent series on how Canada's border entry works. One episode showed a man wih a huge amount of prescriptions he uses being stopped. The concern was he would set up residency to use the Canadian health care system to supply his needs. He was denied entry !!


I can't understand why catch and return immediately is not in place now. The way it is now is beyond rediculous. 


A wall is not a perfect solution but one that can slow the massive numbers heading to America for benefits. Or am I wrong in believing the stats showing use of social assistance in it's many forms?


Fine employers, catch & return immediately, beef up the borders with national guard or military, deport the criminal illegals, stop funding for sanctuary cities & or states. All doable to get back to processing application for those that want to enter America legally.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 5, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Nothing implies there won't be another surge of illegal immigration in the future. If California offers health care and other services free to illegals why would they not cross the border?
> 
> In all seriousness, what is the tipping point? I think the 11 million (or more) already here are more than enough for a while.



Agree.   And furthermore, the "illegal" ones still need to be deported.   I have no problem with LEGAL immigration, work visas, etc.   It's ILLEGALS that make my blood boil.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 5, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I feel it is important to point out one inescapable fact. The people of the Central American nations have created their own problems. Let them solve those problems. If they can't solve those problems, or just don't care enough to solve them, then let them stew in their own juices.
> 
> I, of course, realize that their are many who, for some truly bizarre reasons, want open borders and would, if given a chance, tear down the existing fences and walls.
> 
> There are others who care about America, (mostly retirees) and they assist the American border agents, by setting up border watch points along the vast stretchers of the border where there are no walls or fences what-so-ever. Those groups are equipped with radios to call in the border agents as needed. This can be a dangerous activity, as violent drug runners can pop up. More power to the brave, patriotic Americans who care about our country.



Yes, and where is all the foreign aid $$$ that we are sending to those very countries going???   We need to cut off that flow and use the money to build the wall.


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

Ken N Tx said:


> Any stats on what other countries are coming through Mexico into the US???




I have no specific stats only what I have learned in conversations with I.C.E. and border patrol. But they tell me, that there are more than a few Russians sneaking across in southern border. In addition there are Chinese, Africans and tons of Hondurans, El Salvadorans, Nicaraguans, Columbians, and a host of Caribbean Islanders.

I can personally testify that I see one hell of a lot of Africans hanging out in Tijuana looking for a chance to sneak across.  
I can also tell you that there are places, right here in the San Diego County/Tijuana area were it is too easy to just step across a 5' tall fence where the locals have piled dirt against it.


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## JB in SC (Apr 5, 2018)

Knight said:


> Why not use the same immigration laws Canada or Mexico has? Obviously the laws in place in America aren't working. Netflix has an excellent series on how Canada's border entry works. One episode showed a man wih a huge amount of prescriptions he uses being stopped. The concern was he would set up residency to use the Canadian health care system to supply his needs. He was denied entry !!
> 
> 
> I can't understand why catch and return immediately is not in place now. The way it is now is beyond rediculous.
> ...



The US has been far too soft on enforcement of illegal immigration for over thirty five years. I put the blame on every administration. The employers (read lobbyists) want cheap labor, so the lawmakers (joke) look the other way. A study done some years back (2007 IIRC) by a Princeton University professor showed a wall or fence did assist in apprehension of illegals on the southern border. There is no 100% infallible solution, but a combination of punishing those reaping the benefits of illegal labor and preventing more from crossing into the US would be a good start.


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> Agree.   And furthermore, the "illegal" ones still need to be deported.   I have no problem with LEGAL immigration, work visas, etc.   It's ILLEGALS that make my blood boil.




Do you remember the young woman who was killed in San Francisco by an illegal ? The killer has been deported* FIVE TIMES*.


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> I have to say, I resent the comparison of the USA to Nazi Germany.   This is over the top, IMO.




I totally agree ! It made me furious, also.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 5, 2018)

IMO, I have to totally agree with Traveler. Way to many people come here from Mexico and don't ever want to become citizens. Question is and remains.........why not? Don't want to become an American, it's plain and simple.......don't come here! 

And, what also get's me is, when calling a Customer Service, the recording will say English or Spanish? If we shut down the "Spanish" speaking line, another problem solved.


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

Do people know that here in California a law has been passed making it illegal for ANY state employee to ask for proof of legal residency ?  Thus, any illegal can just walk into the DMV and get a drivers license *AND *a voter regestration card. Hmm. Voters card,  just think about what *THAT* means. Free food stamps, free medical care, free schooling and a get out of jail free card.  

I wish I could cite who is responsible for this insane law but my hands are tied.


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## rgp (Apr 5, 2018)

My dad used to say, America stopped being America...the day the jet was invented.
It bridged that big puddle between us & the rest of the world. And we are now becoming just part of....the rest of the world.

That was him:......

This is me:......

People used to immigrate here, not just to live . But to have a life, an American life...that's all gone. Now they want to come here & game the system, and make us conform to their way.

Much as i hate to say it....Much like we did the "new-world natives when we [our ancestors] arrived. I think perhaps we are now paying the price for the sins of our fathers?

Maybe our ancestors should have tried harder to assimilate into the the way of the "new-world" natives, as opposed to demanding that they adapt their European way / religion / food / dress...etc?

Either way, the country is changing & will continue to so in a way that most of us do not like. Oddly, the younger ones _seem_ to embrace it ?


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## JB in SC (Apr 5, 2018)

I suspect the young will embrace it until it encroaches on their lifestyle or job opportunities.


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## rgp (Apr 5, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> I suspect the young will embrace it until it encroaches on their lifestyle or job opportunities.



Honestly...I'm not so sure. They seem to be more flexible than us...And our young appear to be more open to *their* lifestyle....And they really don't want our old jobs anyway.  Although "blue-collar" jobs do seem to be making a comeback?


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## AZ Jim (Apr 5, 2018)

Robusta said:


> There is a very simple answer.  The Chamber of Commerce blocks it at every opportunity.  Prosecute the employers of undocumented workers. Levy massive crippling fines! Limiting the amount of money sent home would also be very helpful.
> 
> We are a bipolar nation!


BINGO!!  Cut the traffic by hindering the opportunists who hire and use these people.  There are laws but we understand hunger too.  We need to cut off the REASON for coming here.  I believe the DACA children are victims and should stay as citizens.  You can disagree but not alter my opinion.


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## JB in SC (Apr 5, 2018)

rgp said:


> Honestly...I'm not so sure. They seem to be more flexible than us...And our young appear to be more open to *their* lifestyle....And they really don't want our old jobs anyway.  Although "blue-collar" jobs do seem to be making a comeback?



The jobs the young want now will either be outsourced or will be the sole domain of computers (not as we know them now) in less than ten years, if not sooner.

Concerning "blue collar" jobs, try calling a plumber that's not busy.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 5, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Do people know that here in California a law has been passed making it illegal for ANY state employee to ask for proof of legal residency ?  Thus, any illegal can just walk into the DMV and get a drivers license *AND *a voter regestration card. Hmm. Voters card,  just think about what *THAT* means. Free food stamps, free medical care, free schooling and a get out of jail free card.
> 
> I wish I could cite who is responsible for this insane law but my hands are tied.


 I would love to state what is Americas greatest threat but, likewise, my hands are tied.


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## JB in SC (Apr 5, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> BINGO!!  Cut the traffic by hindering the opportunists who hire and use these people.  There are laws but we understand hunger too.  We need to cut off the REASON for coming here.  I believe the DACA children are victims and should stay as citizens.  You can disagree but not alter my opinion.



Dry up the source and they will leave. Granting them (DACA) automatic citizenship diminishes the sacrifices of millions of others whom have worked very hard to become citizens. The path for them shouldn't be any easier than any other immigrant.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 5, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Dry up the source and they will leave. Granting them (DACA) automatic citizenship diminishes the sacrifices of millions of others whom have worked very hard to become citizens. The path for them shouldn't be any easier than any other immigrant.



I see this as a very valid point also.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 5, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Dry up the source and they will leave. Granting them (DACA) automatic citizenship diminishes the sacrifices of millions of others whom have worked very hard to become citizens. The path for them shouldn't be any easier than any other immigrant.


DACA only affects the children who were brought here, no one else.  They are victims.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 5, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> BINGO!! Cut the traffic by hindering the opportunists who hire and use these people. There are laws but we understand hunger too. We need to cut off the REASON for coming here. I believe the DACA children are victims and should stay as citizens. You can disagree but not alter my opinion.



I agree that the DACA kids should be granted citizenship unless they have been convicted of a felony. 

I also believe that we should work with Mexico, Canada and the other countries/territories that make up North America to create safe/secure borders for North America while working to create a guest visa/worker program that would allow any resident of North America to apply for work permits that would allow them to travel and work anywhere in North America.








*The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, 
begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. 
Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.
Through violence you may murder the liar, 
but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. 
Through violence you may murder the hater, 
but you do not murder hate. 
In fact, violence merely increases hate. 
So it goes. 
Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, 
adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. 
Darkness cannot drive out darkness: 
only light can do that. 
Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.
**
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.*


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## C'est Moi (Apr 5, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Dry up the source and they will leave. Granting them (DACA) automatic citizenship diminishes the sacrifices of millions of others whom have worked very hard to become citizens. *The path for them shouldn't be any easier than any other immigrant.*



Thank YOU.


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## rgp (Apr 5, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> DACA only affects the children who were brought here, no one else.  They are victims.




But they were brought here by criminals...their criminal parents that ignored our laws.  If the 'children' are old enough to be self reliant ? Fine let them stay as citizens...If however they are young & dependent? Send them back with their criminal parents.

We need to send a message of changing intolerance .


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

_After all is said and done, it finally comes down to who will destroy America, and who will save it.

We can't fight the tsunami of immigration and, at the same time fight our own citizens who want to destroy America.

Remember what the 20th century's greatest historian, Will Durant, said :

*"No great civilization is ever destroyed from without, until it has destroyed itself from within."*

I hope everyone has jelly in their pockets, 'cause we're all toast. 
_


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## JB in SC (Apr 5, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> DACA only affects the children who were brought here, no one else.  They are victims.



Victim implies they suffered harm. What harm have they suffered from being here? If anything they have enjoyed the benefits and opportunity of the United States.  Realistically I don't see them being deported _en mass,_ that might constitute harm. I have a problem with granting citizenship just because someone brought them here as children.


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

I hope everyone knows what an "anchor baby" is. 
If not, it works like this, A Mexican woman who is late term pregnant, gets a temporary visitor visa and her "visits" her sister, brother, cousin, or friend etc. When it is time, she goes to the hospital to have her baby. Never pays, of course. The baby, naturally, automatically becomes an American citizen by virtue of being born in the U.S. 

Mother and baby return to Mexico and wait until baby is 18. At that age he/she is automatically granted entry back into the U.S. He/she gets a job and then turns around and applies for a permanent visa for mom. Together they apply for visas for the rest of the family (one by one).  soon the entire family is living in the U.S.  And so it continues. Soon, like in California, there are more Mexicans than all the other groups combined. Last month on the news it was officially announced that Mexicans comprised 51% of the states population.

Signed, A resident of Mexico Del Norte


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## Shalimar (Apr 5, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I agree that the DACA kids should be granted citizenship unless they have been convicted of a felony.
> 
> I also believe that we should work with Mexico, Canada and the other countries/territories that make up North America to create safe/secure borders for North America while working to create a guest visa/worker program that would allow any resident of North America to apply for work permits that would allow them to travel and work anywhere in North America.
> ....


Superb post.


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## Keesha (Apr 5, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I agree that the DACA kids should be granted citizenship unless they have been convicted of a felony.
> 
> I also believe that we should work with Mexico, Canada and the other countries/territories that make up North America to create safe/secure borders for North America while working to create a guest visa/worker program that would allow any resident of North America to apply for work permits that would allow them to travel and work anywhere in North America.
> ...


While I hate politics I’ve gotta agree. This is an excellent post. 
Gotta love that Martin Luther King


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## SifuPhil (Apr 5, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> *... **Returning violence for violence multiplies violence,
> adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.
> Darkness cannot drive out darkness:
> only light can do that.
> ...



So this means that in all of the world wars, America should never have become involved, should never have killed a single enemy? 

We should just love North Korea's threats to annihilate us? 

I'm confused ...


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

Nice statement quoting MLK but it does not apply to the current immigration problem. Trying to stop the flood of illegals is NOT violence. One of it's many goals is to stop, or at minimum slow down the extreme violence caused by drug gangs and their product.


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## Shalimar (Apr 5, 2018)

With respect, Traveler, given the strength of your convictions, and your desire for change, I am surprised you are not running for office in some capacity. It would seem to be a logical segue.


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## Traveler (Apr 5, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> With respect, Traveler, given the strength of your convictions, and your desire for change, I am surprised you are not running for office in some capacity. It would seem to be a logical segue.




It would be a waste of time. It's a rigged system. The group I'd be fighting against would drive me nuts. Just seeing a photo of some of those "Kool-ade" drinkers upsets me. All of those "Kool-ade" drinkers are nothing more than.... Oops, I almost said it.

Besides, the damage is done. The cancer has metastasized. America is on life support and we are just waiting for death to put us out of our misery.


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## Gary O' (Apr 5, 2018)

Traveler said:


> It would be a waste of time. It's a rigged system. The group I'd be fighting against would drive me nuts.  .



but we want you on that wall

we neeeeeed you on that wall


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## chic (Apr 6, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> but we want you on that wall
> 
> we neeeeeed you on that wall




It's rumored that's what they're planning to do.


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## dpwspringer (Apr 6, 2018)

chic said:


> It's rumored that's what they're planning to do.



About time, we have been under a "silent" invasion of sorts for decades. All tongue-in-cheek humor aside, that sounds about what I would expect from our liberal media... talk about a disgusting situation. Our liberal media may be the biggest threat our country has ever seen. And I say that because they seem intent to lie, misinform, brainwash, etc, in an effort to destroy this country at any and every opportunity.


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## dpwspringer (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I hope everyone knows what an "anchor baby" is.
> If not, it works like this, A Mexican woman who is late term pregnant, gets a temporary visitor visa and her "visits" her sister, brother, cousin, or friend etc. When it is time, she goes to the hospital to have her baby. Never pays, of course. The baby, naturally, automatically becomes an American citizen by virtue of being born in the U.S.
> 
> Mother and baby return to Mexico and wait until baby is 18. At that age he/she is automatically granted entry back into the U.S. He/she gets a job and then turns around and applies for a permanent visa for mom. Together they apply for visas for the rest of the family (one by one).  soon the entire family is living in the U.S.  And so it continues. Soon, like in California, there are more Mexicans than all the other groups combined. Last month on the news it was officially announced that Mexicans comprised 51% of the states population.
> ...


"Anchor babies"... if I'm remembering my history lessons correctly they are misusing the 14th amendment that was enacted after the civil war to make it clear that the freed slaves were citizens of this country. It was never intended to be used as a loop hole for orderly immigration laws/rules like it is being used today.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 6, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> but we want you on that wall
> 
> we neeeeeed you on that wall



Gary, you are like us, quoting lines in movies. This on is from A Few Good Men.


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## JB in SC (Apr 6, 2018)

dpwspringer said:


> "Anchor babies"... if I'm remembering my history lessons correctly they are misusing the 14th amendment that was enacted after the civil war to make it clear that the freed slaves were citizens of this country. It was never intended to be used as a loop hole for orderly immigration laws/rules like it is being used today.



Your US History teacher would give you an A +...about 300,000 per year by illegal immigrants. And that's down slightly from as high as 370,000. It remains about 8% of the birth rate of the entire US population.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 6, 2018)

Funny, but on CNN yesterday, they had a Reporter, who spoke both English and Spanish, talking to a guy who was on the van where the immigrants escaped, but never once asked him if he wanted to become a U.S. citizen when he makes it into the U.S.. All he and she talked about was how good life was in America. He said if he was forced back to Mexico, he’d just keep trying to get back into the U.S.


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## Gary O' (Apr 6, 2018)

I have an opine;

Most of what has been said here is arrogant, misguided Bee Ess

My relatives came up
Walked the desert at night
Worked jobs no others would take
Lived places no others would live
Became self-taught master carpenters
Built businesses
They are not the exception
I worked along side illegals in Houston and border towns
I consider myself a hard worker
I wish I worked as hard as they do

No, they’re not like the Europeans and Anglos that came over, wiping out, slaughtering whole peoples, my wife’s relatives.
They just want a better life

Drug lords, smugglers? Get real.
There’s some, yes, promoted by, guess who?

Who do we think we are in this ‘free country’?

Give us your poor?

Best take that ol’ gal down while yer blowing bile


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Catch and release

Catch and release may be an ok idea when fishing for sport but a terrible idea when it comes to illegal aliens. Last month when the 37,393 illegal aliens were caught crossing the border, most of them were returned to Mexico within a day or so. 

This needs to change. I think some sort of price must be paid by the criminal aliens. I therefore suggest a new idea. Hold them is a secure compound for a minimum of 90 days. We could use the same tents and equipment used to house and feed to U.S. military when they are in the field. The major difference would be the food would not be to their liking. 

Mexican are used to a steady diet if extremely highly spice foods. The food given to them could be capable of supporting life but quite bland. They would absolutely hate that. If unheated MRE's are good enough for U.S. troops then it would be good enough for the illegals. No frijoles, no chili peppers, no rice, no tortillas, no anything they really like. And, to drink ? Plain unflavored water.


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Catch and release
> 
> Catch and release may be an ok idea when fishing for sport but a terrible idea when it comes to illegal aliens. Last month when the 37,393 illegal aliens were caught crossing the border, most of them were returned to Mexico within a day or so.
> 
> ...


Are you in favour of also punishing the children? No milk for babies etc? That would be unconscionable.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 6, 2018)

For some of the manufacturing companies I have worked for, especially in Santa Ana, California, most likely some of the Injection Molding Machines were operated by illegals, but I really didn't pay any attention. Did learn some, but only some, Spanish from them. Heck, there is a carburetor company that does re-manufacturing of carburetor's, where we bought our boat carburetor from, that I guarantee there are illegals working there. At least from what I seen sitting outside at lunch one time. 

BUT, will still say that something needs to be done about this major problem of illegal immigration. What I still don't know and nobody seems to want to talk about it, is..............why don't these people want to become citizens???? Other nationalities do, but a lot of folks up here from South America don't. Reason???


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Are you in favour of also punishing the children? No milk for babies etc? That would be unconscionable.



Thing is here, you think with your "heart" and he thinks with his "brain". IOW, he's more of a "realist", like myself. One thing for sure, thinking only with the "heart", isn't always a good thing. 

My wife just told me this morning, "In dealing with many things, I think much more with my heart than I do with my brain". I agreed. For me, it's the brain more than the heart. We make a great couple.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Catch and release
> 
> Catch and release may be an ok idea when fishing for sport but a terrible idea when it comes to illegal aliens. Last month when the 37,393 illegal aliens were caught crossing the border, most of them were returned to Mexico within a day or so.
> 
> ...



Concentration camps are not a new idea.

In Australia, they call them immigration detention facilities. 

I would hope that the United States learned its lesson about internment camps when they herded Americans of Japanese descent into them during WWII.

I can't imagine what horrors it takes for a person to finally decide to cash in everything they have and leave their birthplace in search of a safe place to live and raise their family. IMO the developed nations of the world should be helping these people get on their feet and start a new productive life instead of terrorizing them and treating them like vermin. It seems like a sad, endless and futile war between the haves and the have-nots.


----------



## Happyflowerlady (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Are you in favour of also punishing the children? No milk for babies etc? That would be unconscionable.



It is also important to consider the life the child was leading before they were stopped while crossing the border. 

They probably were not eating the best of food (if at all) or getting fresh milk to drink on the trek either; so it is not like these children would be being denied something that they had been already having as they were illegally coming across the border. 
Life would probably be even worse for these children if they were not found and stopped, regardless of whether they were held here or deported back into Mexico again.
Many of the illegals who do come across into the US then die in the desert, and it is a long and horrible death, and one that is imposed upon the children by their parents bringing them across illegally. 
Those people would be happy to be found and detained or deported at that point; and what Traveler is suggesting is in no way cruel to the illegals, just a deterrent so that they do not come right back through the border. 

I am not sure that detaining these people for illegally crossing the border would work; but I see no reason why it would not be legal or ethical to do so.


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Thing is here, you think with your "heart" and he thinks with his "brain". IOW, he's more of a "realist", like myself. One thing for sure, thinking only with the "heart", isn't always a good thing.
> 
> My wife just told me this morning, "In dealing with many things, I think much more with my heart than I do with my brain". I agreed. For me, it's the brain more than the heart. We make a great couple.



With respect, I disagree. In my line of work, you see so much death and suffering that if you cannot keep a sense of detachment you will be destroyed. I can be a hard core realist when required, but some things are just immoral. Cruelty to children is one of them. No person of faith could countenance such a horror.


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> Concentration camps are not a new idea.
> 
> In Australia, they call them immigration detention facilities.
> 
> ...


Beautifully put. I salute your humanity.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Are you in favour of also punishing the children? No milk for babies etc? That would be unconscionable.




I figured you would  bring that up. I assume you have heard of breast milk.


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## Knight (Apr 6, 2018)

How babies became the reason for people to be accepted even though illegal makes no sense. The thought that it would be immoral to deny entry shouldn't be thrust on America. Place the blame for lack of morality on the parents that produced children that would grow up in poverty & the conditions they knew were present.


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I figured you would  bring that up. I assume you have heard of breast milk.


You assume correctly. My children were breast fed. Perhaps you are unaware of the extra nutritional needs of a lactating mother? Without them her milk dries up. Stress also can stop lactation.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> Concentration camps are not a new idea.
> 
> In Australia, they call them immigration detention facilities.
> 
> ...




 Perhaps you are suggesting that we throw open the borders ? Come one, come all ?  Would that make you happy.  ?


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> You assume correctly. My children were breast fed. Perhaps you are unaware of the extra nutritional needs of a lactating mother? Without them her milk dries up. Stress also can stop lactation.




Oh, *Please *. Give me a freakin' break. Do you have any idea, any idea at all, what those people eat in their *OWN *countries ? I guarantee that MRE's are very high calories foods and are  much more nutritional than they are used to. I didn't say a word about starving anyone. I said a* bland diet*. 

Come on down here and I'll show you 2 year old babies eating raw red radishes.

What I think you have in mind is housing the illegals in a tropical resort with 5 star cuisine, prepared by master chefs, so the mothers are not "SRESSED OUT". That seems to be the only thing which would satisfy you.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Perhaps you are suggesting that we throw open the borders ? Come one, come all ? Would that make you happy. ?



It always seems to go from one extreme to another with no reasonable sustainable solution.

I believe that we should weed out the criminals and turn them back.

I think that we should work with the countries that these people come from and try to help resolve the issues that cause them to come to the United States.

I think that we should be able to work with honest hardworking poor people by issuing a work visa and helping them relocate to an area of the United States or Canada where they can find employment, make a decent life and eventually become citizens. 

The selfish fact of life is that we need these people if we expect to maintain our standard of living.

It seems to me that the massive amounts of money that we spend trying to stop these people would be better spent helping them and us build a better life.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

The people of Central America are breeding like rabbits. How is that the fault or responsibility of America?  Oh, I forgot, *bleeding hearts* don't believe in personal responsibility.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Aunt Bea, I have a better idea. Lets fed the hungry in *AMERICA* before we worry about foreigners


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## Knight (Apr 6, 2018)

National guard troops to the border is the topic. Stopping ILLEGAL ENTRY the concept I think the op had in mind. 


There is a tipping point that any society can't manage. With the decline of manufacturing jobs and increase of technology replacing the need for manual labor the previous "acceptance/use" of labor doing jobs American's wouldn't do is fading quickly. A steady flow of ILLEGALS still looking for a better life is tipping the balance. Not funny but I wonder how long before it will be when a person wants to use their phone Spainish will be the primary language with English being the choice.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Aunt Bea, I have a better idea. Lets fed the hungry in *AMERICA* before we worry about foreigners



Totally agree! You GO Traveler!


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## HipGnosis (Apr 6, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> I believe the DACA children are victims and should stay as citizens.


I partially agree.  I think the DACA children should stay, and be given the opportunity to BECOME citizens.

HipG


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> With respect, I disagree. In my line of work, you see so much death and suffering that if you cannot keep a sense of detachment you will be destroyed. I can be a hard core realist when required, but some things are just immoral. Cruelty to children is one of them. No person of faith could countenance such a horror.



Well, I had a job once, back in the mid 70's, where I seen my share of death and even suffering...........it was called, being an EMT in the somewhat rough neighborhoods of Compton, Watts, South Central, Los Angeles and others. 

One thing for sure, not everyone in this America has "faith", but even those that do, want this illegal immigration to stop. Wife and I have "faith" and are Christians and we still want something done. Stop with Customer Service in Spanish and some auto stores that have items on signs in English, Spanish and Vietnamese.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 6, 2018)

HipGnosis said:


> I partially agree.  I think the DACA children should stay, and be given the opportunity to BECOME citizens.
> 
> HipG



And, obviously, with a time limit to do it. But, what will happen if they simply don't want to become citizen's, then what????


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Oh, *Please *. Give me a freakin' break. Do you have any idea, any idea at all, what those people eat in their *OWN *countries ? I guarantee that MRE's are very high calories foods and are  much more nutritional than they are used to. I didn't say a word about starving anyone. I said a* bland diet*.
> 
> Come on down here and I'll show you 2 year old babies eating raw red radishes.
> 
> What I think you have in mind is housing the illegals in a tropical resort with 5 star cuisine, prepared by master chefs, so the mothers are not "SRESSED OUT". That seems to be the only thing which would satisfy you.



Excuse me, Monsieur, I have paid you the courtesy of treating you with respect, regardless of our differences in perspective. I have earned the right to  receive the same. As for the Five Star reference, that has no basis in fact, nor are you able to read my mind.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 6, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> It always seems to go from one extreme to another with no reasonable sustainable solution.
> 
> I believe that we should weed out the criminals and turn them back.
> 
> ...



How on earth would the criminals be weeded out?   Do you think they wear badges?   

I don't believe anyone here has an issue with LEGAL IMMIGRATION.   It's the "illegal" part that people seem to overlook.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Aunt Bea, I have a better idea. Lets fed the hungry in *AMERICA* before we worry about foreigners



Yes.   American children go to bed hungry every night.   Where's the outrage for them?


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## helenbacque (Apr 6, 2018)

The United States has had reasonable laws regarding immigration on the books for years but they have been ignored because *an illegal could be exploited - they worked cheaper!*  And cheaper wages for dish washers, field hands, ditch diggers and house cleaners, cooks and child minders left more money in the pocket of the individual employer.  If public assistance provided free schooling and health care, that was good too because it also left more money in the pocket of the employer.  Last century's good old American greed created today's immigration quandary.  Compassion had little to do with it.

Back-door/illegal immigration fueled by greed is still not only allowed but encouraged - sanctuary cities, for example - and it is an insult to the country's *legal* immigrant population.  Unfortunately, innocent children in all societies are often harmed by their parent's actions.  We must allow the current innocents to stay but insist on loyalty and allegiance to the United States, obedience of its laws and beginning the path to citizenship.  If your heart is in another country, your body needs to be there too.

And lock the back-door by whatever means necessary.  We are a nation of laws and it is time to begin to either obey the ones we have regarding immigration or change them.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 6, 2018)

Actually, I sometimes wonder about how some people from India dress..........their attire sure isn't "loyalty" to America. Anyway, they are either legal or becoming legal, but some still wear their native dress. We have a neighbor that does just that. There are other Indians that live in the complex that dress totally like American's. Wonder why she doesn't want to. 

Nobody says a word about how some people from India dress. Apparently this ladies heart is still in India. Oh well, she is legal or working on it. Very nice lady though.


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## rgp (Apr 6, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Actually, I sometimes wonder about how some people from India dress..........their attire sure isn't "loyalty" to America. Anyway, they are either legal or becoming legal, but some still wear their native dress. We have a neighbor that does just that. There are other Indians that live in the complex that dress totally like American's. Wonder why she doesn't want to.
> 
> Nobody says a word about how some people from India dress. Apparently this ladies heart is still in India. Oh well, she is legal or working on it. Very nice lady though.




A friend of mine actually asked a motel owner about that once...the Indian said for him, it's simple...his native dress was just more comfortable than American style shirt & pants......That one just makes sense .


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

I live in the very heart of Hispanic California, Yan Ysidro.  Living as I do, I see things and know things that few of the people who want MORE illegal immigration experience. 

Locally, at Walmart few of the employees speak enough English to answer basic questions like, Excuse me, where can I find the kitchen mops ?"   last year I asked an employee at Walmart where I could find the ironing boards, He replied, "Ironings boards ? What are they used for?"

At ALL of the local Super Markets, it is becoming increasingly difficult to buy simple every day items like Oscar Meyer sliced ham or Hunts tomato sauce.  Mexicans don't buy those, and dozens of other items, so the Super Marts have stopped selling them. If I want to buy a decent steak, it is impossible. A Mexicans idea of a steak is so thin that you can almost read a newspaper through it. 

I can't buy Canada Dry Ginger Ale, but there is plenty of shelf space for hundreds of strange Mexican sodas. On and on it goes. Worse every month. 

I've had a knife pulled on me because I insisted that a young strong Mexican man  give up his "handicapped/elderly only" seat on the trolley. For much of the day getting a seat on the trolley is next to impossible due to the flood of Mexicans traveling back and forth from Mexico.

And when I attempt to cross the street, in the crosswalk, I am taking my life in my hands because Mexicans are not used to obeying basic traffic laws. Mexicans don't understand that pedestrians, in a cross-walk,
have the right of way. 

Someone brought up the need for cheap Mexican labor here in the states and that is why she favored letting more Mexicans in to the states. Well, at the San Ysidro/Tijuana land border crossing, (the busiest land border crossing in the world) 8 million Mexicans legally cross over EVERY YEAR. That, my friends, is just one 48 of border check points. We do not need any more cheap labor. There is more than enough cheap labor here already, 9- 11 million illegals here at last estimate. 

However, it does not matter what argument is made to stop the flood of illegals there are always going to be those who want to destroy our country and they don't care if there are 50 million illegals or 200 million illegal here. Those supporters of illegal immigration will find any excuse for more, ever more. illegals. The favorite word of those people is "VICTIM" and they use that word like a club in a failed attempt to silence their opponents.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 6, 2018)

rgp said:


> A friend of mine actually asked a motel owner about that once...the Indian said for him, it's simple...his native dress was just more comfortable than American style shirt & pants......That one just makes sense .



Yes and no. IMO, Nobody from a foreign country should wear their native clothes. It simply looks like that don't want to be Americans, even when they become legal. I mean, a lot of society is tired of not only all the illegals, but different foreign languages spoken. A lot of folks that speak their countries language can speak English, they just chose not to. I don't get it? Become American, act, dress speak the language.......I don't know.  

But, then again, there are a lot of Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, India and other ethnic restaurants around the U.S., so........ Actually, I've seen a number of movies, where somewhere in the script, there is a statement where someone says "Why don't you speak English?". One movie was, Steven Seagal's Under Siege. when Gary Busey says that to a Russian crew member of a submarine.


----------



## ClassicRockr (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I live in the very heart of Hispanic California, Yan Ysidro.  Living as I do, I see things and know things that few of the people who want MORE illegal immigration experience.
> 
> Locally, at Walmart few of the employees speak enough English to answer basic questions like, Excuse me, where can I find the kitchen mops ?"   last year I asked an employee at Walmart where I could find the ironing boards, He replied, "Ironings boards ? What are they used for?"
> 
> ...



Hummmmmm, very interesting, but also VERY TRUE.


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## squatting dog (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler, I've had a similar experience when I lived in Imperial valley. Was at the walmart in Calexico and was stabbed in the back shoulder blade by an illegal for no reason. Just walking back to my car when.... thud in the back. Worst of all, they arrested him and deported him for, as the police told me, the 4th time.   You will never get me to agree with any illegal immigration policy. As a side note, every one of the Mexicans I worked with all hated illegals because they were basically jumping the line. That's something the media will never report.
I'm for a wall.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 6, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Yes and no.* IMO, Nobody from a foreign country should wear their native clothes. It simply looks like that don't want to be Americans, even when they become legal*. I mean, a lot of society is tired of not only all the illegals, but different foreign languages spoken. A lot of folks that speak their countries language can speak English, they just chose not to. I don't get it? Become American, act, dress speak the language.......I don't know.
> 
> But, then again, there are a lot of Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, India and other ethnic restaurants around the U.S., so........ Actually, I've seen a number of movies, where somewhere in the script, there is a statement where someone says "Why don't you speak English?". One movie was, Steven Seagal's Under Siege. when Gary Busey says that to a Russian crew member of a submarine.



OK, I have to say that that is ridiculous.   America is the "home of the free," which definitely includes wearing the clothing of your choice.    As long as people's private parts aren't on display I couldn't care less what type of clothing they are wearing.   Good grief.


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## JB in SC (Apr 6, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> OK, I have to say that that is ridiculous.   America is the "home of the free," which definitely includes wearing the clothing of your choice.    As long as people's private parts aren't on display I couldn't care less what type of clothing they are wearing.   Good grief.



Agreed to a point, on a lighter note some folks need some assistance with their fashion choices. Something about PJ's and bedroom slippers with bunnies on them at 1 am in Walmart isn't quite what I expect.


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## JaniceM (Apr 6, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Yes and no. IMO, *Nobody from a foreign country should wear their native clothes. It simply looks like that don't want to be Americans, even when they become legal.* I mean, a lot of society is tired of not only all the illegals, but different foreign languages spoken. A lot of folks that speak their countries language can speak English, they just chose not to. I don't get it? Become American, act, dress speak the language.......I don't know.
> 
> But, then again, there are a lot of Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, India and other ethnic restaurants around the U.S., so........ Actually, I've seen a number of movies, where somewhere in the script, there is a statement where someone says "Why don't you speak English?". One movie was, Steven Seagal's Under Siege. when Gary Busey says that to a Russian crew member of a submarine.



So, everyone who has come to the U.S. should dress like this fellow?


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## Gary O' (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Catch and release
> 
> Catch and release may be an ok idea when fishing for sport but a terrible idea when it comes to illegal aliens. Last month when the 37,393 illegal aliens were caught crossing the border, most of them were returned to Mexico within a day or so.
> 
> ...





Happyflowerlady said:


> It is also important to consider the life the child was leading before they were stopped while crossing the border.
> 
> They probably were not eating the best of food (if at all) or getting fresh milk to drink on the trek either; so it is not like these children would be being denied something that they had been already having as they were illegally coming across the border.
> Life would probably be even worse for these children if they were not found and stopped, regardless of whether they were held here or deported back into Mexico again.
> ...



too easy

let them eat cake


Marie would be so proud


----------



## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

*GREAT NEWS !*

It was just reported on the evening news that the "catch and release" policy will be ending and that all future detainees will be housed at remote military facilities within the lower 48 states.  Hallelujah ! Its about freakin'time.

When did I post about this exact same thing ? 12 hours ago ? I must be prescient.  

Since the illegals have committed a federal crime, they will be tried, and protected by Federal law. 

This will give the federal authorities time to weed out, and fully prosecute those who have been deported before. 

It was stated on the news that the men caught kidnapping young girls, some as young as 13, for sex slaves will receive "special attention"

1st timers, however, will likely be released prior to trial. 90 days incarceration for 1st timers seems like a reasonable time frame. 

This should slow down the illegal traffic, considerably.


----------



## SifuPhil (Apr 6, 2018)




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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

If you think that, then I just can't help you. You should be ashamed of yourself. Shame ! Shame ! Shame !

Comparing America to Auschwitz is beyond reprehensible. Disgusting !


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## SifuPhil (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> If you think that, then I just can't help you. You should be ashamed of yourself. Shame ! Shame ! Shame !



I'm not the one that rejoices at news of interment of foreigners. Do we get to wear snazzy brown shirts and call ourselves _Sturmabteilung_?


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## Warrigal (Apr 6, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> Concentration camps are not a new idea.
> 
> In Australia, they call them immigration detention facilities. There are mainland immigration detention centres that are simply holding people stopped at the border awaiting deportation or people who have overstayed their visas or breached visa conditions. These are effectively gaols for temporary prisoners.
> 
> ...



I fully agree that wealthy nations such as Australia can afford to absorb the relatively few people who attempt to land on our shores by boat in the hope of being granted our protection. I think many Australians have forgotten our  history of white settlement and the kind of people who arrived here in the First Fleet. From such an inauspicious beginning we have grown into a country which is hardly poor and we are still a continent with few people living in the Red Centre and the Tropical North.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 6, 2018)

Picking a people to inter based upon their nationality is _exactly_ what happened in Nazi Germany.

I don't see how this is any different.


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## Gary O' (Apr 6, 2018)

*Alien*
When I hear that word my mind goes to some unhuman being
From another planet
Put ‘illegal’ in front of that and the subconscious considers a direct threat
From outer space


There’s plenty of propaganda in the media today
It’s up to us to determine the ore from the dross

I have a short personal story
It’s not propaganda
It’s not atypical 
It’s as real as any true American story could be

I ask all active in this thread to read this story
Those who have me on ignore…please continue to remain ignorant


An illegal alien
From Acapulco, the seamy side 
Was wunna those kids treading water for tourists to toss coins from yachts 
At sixteen he hooked up with coyotes to get into the US
Learned how to get along here, the hard way…work, all hours
Deported three times while learning
Came back over, three times, walking the desert at night
Slept where no one cares to be
Worked fields like none other
Wanted to be a ‘landcaseper’
Did OK at it, but didn’t put enough food on the table of his ambition
Became a roofer’s helper
A roofer
A framer
A finish carpenter
Took no hand outs
Paid his way
Now has his own business

I just sent a notarized letter to a dept here in Oregon, telling them why he should remain here while he studies to become a citizen

His son, my grandson;
Graduated The Oregon National Guard Youth Challenge Program (OYCP)
With honors
I had the privilege of being his mentor 
A few pics;



























I will do all in my power to ensure his opportunity
And those like him, and his dad
They may be in the thousands
All the more reason


This is our nation
Nations will come and go
Historically, those choosing exclusivism go sooner than others


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## JB in SC (Apr 6, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> I'm not the one that rejoices at news of interment of foreigners. Do we get to wear snazzy brown shirts and call ourselves _Sturmabteilung_?




Comparing the loss of over 8 million lives to detaining illegals is ludicrous.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 6, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Comparing the loss of over 8 million lives to detaining illegals is ludicrous.



You, like Traveler, are missing the point.

It's *forced interment*. Government approved and implemented.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Picking a people to inter based upon their nationality is _exactly_ what happened in Nazi Germany.
> 
> I don't see how this is any different.



*Words can not express my outrage. Your posted photo of Auschwitz is beyond belief. This is the 2nd time someone has drawn a comparrision between Nazi Germany and America.*


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Comparing the loss of over 8 million lives to detaining illegals is ludicrous.


Really? My great aunt Rivka would disagree, I lost family in Auschwitz, things started small in Hitler’s Germany. Slippery slope. Let us also not forget the internment of  Japanese civilians by both our govts during WW2. Being citizens didn’t help them.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> *Words can not express my outrage. Your posted photo of Auschwitz is beyond belief. This is the 2nd time someone has drawn a comparrision between Nazi Germany and America.*



Oh, get off your high horse.

It's okay when *you* can run down transvestites and women and foreigners and tattoos, but let ONE person call you on your hypocrisy and you have a sh*t-fit. 

Kicking them out of the country, then internment, were the first steps in Germany. That's a fact you need to acknowledge.


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## JB in SC (Apr 6, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Picking a people to inter based upon their nationality is _exactly_ what happened in Nazi Germany.
> 
> I don't see how this is any different.



Nazi's didn't care which country the Jewish people called home, they killed as many as they could. They had no compunction in exterminating almost 90% of their own Jewish citizens. Hardly nationality based.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 6, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Nazi's didn't care which country the Jewish people called home, they killed as many as they could. They had no compunction in exterminating almost 90% of their own Jewish citizens. Hardly nationality based.



Neither is the listing of Mexico, Central and South American, etc., etc., as has been done in this thread. 

Okay, let's use "race" - better?


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> *Alien*
> When I hear that word my mind goes to some unhuman being
> From another planet
> Put ‘illegal’ in front of that and the subconscious considers a direct threat
> ...


Beautiful post. Resonates. You are truly a great American. Honoured to know you. If I have your permission, I would love to take a copy of this post to work with me. Many of my refugee clients would be heartened by your sentiments.


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## Gary O' (Apr 6, 2018)

this thread is a site killer
just as other threads like it

Hate mongering does that


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## Gary O' (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> If I have your permission, I would love to take a copy of this post to work with me. Many of my refugee clients would be heartened by your sentiments.


 

the privilege is mine

I consider my post nonexclusive  

You do this heart good

keep that fire


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> this thread is a site killer
> just as other threads like it
> 
> Hate mongering does that


It breaks my heart, I deal with refugees, they are so grateful to be here, try so hard to build good lives in their new country.


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## JB in SC (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Really? My great aunt Rivka would disagree, I lost family in Auschwitz, things started small in Hitler’s Germany. Slippery slope. Let us also not forget the internment of  Japanese civilians by both our govts during WW2. Being citizens didn’t help them.



As much as you would like to compare America to Hitler's Germany, it is not.


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> As much as you would like to compare America to Hitler's Germany, it is not.


Not yet, hopefully never, but the seeds are there. As for liking this comparison, sir, you are mistaken, the possibility horrifies me.


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## JB in SC (Apr 6, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Neither is the listing of Mexico, Central and South American, etc., etc., as has been done in this thread.
> 
> Okay, let's use "race" - better?



Nope, an illegal immigrant can be any nationality. I don't want to see them come to harm, I want them to stay in their respective countries and apply for a green card.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Any comparison between America and the Nazi German death camps is pure hysteria. And sinks below the level of reason. I am aware that there are many America haters both here and abroad but that is disgusting. 

The ONLY thing America is doing is trying to stop ILLEGAL ALIENS from flooding our country.


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## JB in SC (Apr 6, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> You, like Traveler, are missing the point.
> 
> It's *forced interment*. Government approved and implemented.



No one forced them to cross the border and break US immigration law.


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Any comparison between America and the Nazi German death camps is pure hysteria. And sinks below the level of reason. I am aware that there are many America haters both here and abroad but that is disgusting.
> 
> The ONLY thing America is doing is trying to stop ILLEGAL ALIENS from flooding our country.



I suggest you look closer to home for your hysteria. It lacks reason to expect your narrative to be the only narrative. This is a forum where many different voices are heard.  Also, it is not a sign of hatred but rather love to want the best for a country, and to speak out against a perceived injustice. That freedom is one of the core values of a democracy. Only by examining the flaws of a society can we hope to improve it. To close one’s eyes to a perceived injustice is to be complicit.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> You, like Traveler, are missing the point.
> 
> It's *forced interment*. Government approved and implemented.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When people break the law, they go to jail and perhaps even prison. Government approved and implemented, forced internment. Or don't you think people should go to jail when they brake the law ?

And, the word is *internment* not interment.


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## JB in SC (Apr 6, 2018)

Yep, they all hate the US until they get in trouble.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I suggest you look closer to home for your hysteria. It lacks reason to expect your narrative to be the only narrative. This is a forum where many different voices are heard.  Also, it is not a sign of hatred but rather love to want the best for a country, and to speak out against a perceived injustice. That freedom is one of the core values of a democracy. Only by examining the flaws of a society can we hope to improve it. To close one’s eyes to a perceived injustice is to be complicit.




Counterpoint is one thing, comparing Auschwitz to America is just plain hysteria. I believe in the law. If you don't, then I must just shake my head in disbelief and wonder what you are thinking.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Yep, they all hate the US until they get in trouble.




Agreed. We have plenty of America haters right here in our own country and they don't care one bit about what is best for this country. What is best ? Obeying the law is best!

Hey, JB, have you ever wondered why some of these posters openly support illegal activity ?


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## JaniceM (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Really? My great aunt Rivka would disagree, I lost family in Auschwitz, things started small in Hitler’s Germany. Slippery slope. Let us also not forget the internment of  Japanese civilians by both our govts during WW2. Being citizens didn’t help them.



And I'll add some info that admittedly I didn't even know about until quite recently-
(quote):

_In 1831, a petition to the state legislature was introduced by a delegation from Northampton County, Virginia, calling for immediate plans to send all free Americans of color to Liberia, Africa.  The mixed families they wanted to deport had lived in America for two centuries at the time...  

Parallel to Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s, powerful forces were moving steadily to send not only blacks, but whites and American Indians with "one drop" of African blood to Africa.  

_There's also some interesting information on how 'American eugenical segregationalists' directly corresponded with and influenced the Nazis.  

(book:  CHILDREN OF PERDITION by Tim Hashaw.)


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

JaniceM said:


> And I'll add some info that admittedly I didn't even know about until quite recently-
> (quote):
> 
> _In 1831, a petition to the state legislature was introduced by a delegation from Northampton County, Virginia, calling for immediate plans to send all free Americans of color to Liberia, Africa.  The mixed families they wanted to deport had lived in America for two centuries at the time...
> ...


Wow!


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## JaniceM (Apr 6, 2018)




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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> When people break the law, they go to jail and perhaps even prison. Government approved and implemented, forced internment. Or don't you think people should go to jail when they brake the law ?
> ...


Like the American born Japanese in WW2? Canada did the same to ours. Black mark on both our histories. Just like when our countries sent back boatloads of Jewish refugees from  Nazi Germany. The law is not sacrosanct. Morality supercedes bad law.


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

JaniceM said:


> View attachment 50683


Amen. Namaste.


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Counterpoint is one thing, comparing Auschwitz to America is just plain hysteria. I believe in the law. If you don't, then I must just shake my head in disbelief and wonder what you are thinking.


I believe in justice. Slavery and segregation were once laws, very bad laws. Completely immoral. Sometimes, to quote Shakespeare, “the law is an ass.”


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

MORE GOOD NEWS

TEXAS AND ARIZONA HAVE PROMISED TO SEND NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS TO THE BORDER BEGINNING NEXT WEEK.

The Kool-Ade drinkers of Oregon and California, are not likely to do so.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I believe in justice. Slavery and segregation were once laws, very bad laws. Completely immoral. Sometimes, to quote Shakespeare, “the law is an ass.”




Ancient history. (Yawn)


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I believe in justice. Slavery and segregation were once laws, very bad laws. Completely immoral. Sometimes, to quote Shakespeare, “the law is an ass.”




Yes, I agree that slavery and segregation were bad laws and needed to be abolished. 

Now, kindly explain to me what that has to do with attempting to secure our borders ?


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## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Yes, I agree that slavery and segregation were bad laws and needed to be abolished.
> 
> Now, kindly explain to me what that has to do with attempting to secure our borders ?


I suggest you read my comments regarding internment, this convo has become circular. Pax.


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## Traveler (Apr 6, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I suggest you read my comments regarding internment, this convo has become circular. Pax.




I *HAVE *read your comments re: internment, and they made me sick to my stomach. 

Internment is merely another word for jail.  When  people are placed in jail (or internment if you prefer) when they have NOT broken the law, that is immoral. However, when they *HAVE *broken the law then it is not only moral, it is simple justice. And please don't bother to tell me that everyone in the world has an absolute *RIGHT *to enter another country without a visa. 

If I moved to Mexico without a visa, they'd put my a*s in jail. Oh no ! Involuntary internment ! Oh, dear. What is the world coming to ?

What you, and a few others have been saying is that millions upon millions of people have an absolute right to illegally enter another country, and then give the finger to that country.   By what stretch of the imagination do you believe such balderdash ?


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## JaniceM (Apr 6, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Yes, I agree that slavery and segregation were bad laws and needed to be abolished.
> 
> Now, kindly explain to me what that has to do with attempting to secure our borders ?



_Because all _it is, and all it has ever been, are ongoing attempts to 'whiteify' this country. 

Shalimar mentioned the camps during WW II-  long ago, I asked members of that generation why it was the Japanese-Americans specifically, as the U.S. was at war with other countries, too.  I was told it was because Japan had directly attacked the U.S., and I've also read the excuse of 'national security.'  However- numerous sources state approx. half of these people were children.  I'd venture a guess:  it's easier to recognize an Asian person as Asian, than to recognize a German as German or an Italian as Italian.  

Second, one source states there are approx. 100,000 Canadians living in this country illegally.  I don't see anyone pushing for a wall on the Canadian border.  The majority of Canadians are Caucasian, native-English speakers, well-educated, and if there are any radical differences in 'cultures' I didn't notice it when I was there. 

Eliminating drug pipelines is important and necessary.  However, as someone who lived in both California and Texas, drug 'mules' account for only the tiniest percentage of so-called illegal immigrants.  Point:  hold _individuals _accountable for illegal behaviors-  not bash an entire group because of their skin color and native language.


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## Warrigal (Apr 7, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Ancient history. (Yawn)



Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are condemned to relive it.

The Roman Republic was replaced with a dictator (the first time the word was used) and after he was assassinated the door was open for the rise of the emperors.

Ancient or not, history should never be ignored.


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## Traveler (Apr 7, 2018)

JaniceM, as you area new-comer to this thread, I'll take the time and a great deal of patience to explain to you that there are an estimated *9-11 million* illegal Mexicans living in this country. That is exactly 100 times the number of illegal Canadians (if I use 10 million as an average). 

It does you no good to attempt to insert race in the equation. The concept of race you bring up is, at best, disingenuous. And at worst an obvious attempt to inflame the Kool-ade drinkers. If there were only 100 K illegal Mexicans living in the U.S. no one would care. certainly I would not.

How many illegal Canadians were caught last month ? 4, 6 or even 20 ? Last month *37,393 *illegal Mexicans were caught attempting to make it into the cities where they could "vanish". I suspect that even you could understand that is a phenomenal difference. 

Now, I ask you, how many of those Canadians you speak of are a  drain on the public treasury ? How many of them belong to super-violent gangs ? How many of them routinely commit home invasions ? How many are carjackers ? How many of them rape and murder ? How many of them kidnap 14 year old Canadian girls and sell them as sex slaves ?  I'll tell you, Damn few, if any.

It never fails to amaze me how many Americans just don't care about the law and actively attempt to deny reality.

I speak thus because you have labeled me a racist.


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## Traveler (Apr 7, 2018)

Warrigal said:


> Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are condemned to relive it.
> 
> The Roman Republic was replaced with a dictator (the first time the word was used) and after he was assassinated the door was open for the rise of the emperors.
> 
> Ancient or not, history should never be ignored.




Are you and Australia volunteering to accept all 9-11 million of Americas illegal aliens ?


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## Traveler (Apr 7, 2018)

JaniceM said:


> *Because all it is, and all it has e*v*er been, are ongoing attempts to 'whiteify' this country.*
> ntry.
> *Shalimar mentioned the camps during WW II-  long ago, I asked members of that generation why it was the Japanese-Americans specifically, as the U.S*. *was at war with other countries, too.  I was told it was because Japan had directly attacked the U.S., and I've also* *read the excuse of 'national security.'  However- numerous sources state approx. half of these people were children.  I'd venture a guess:  it's easier to recognize an Asian person as Asian, than to recognize a German as German or an Italian as Italian.*




Do you know how many Germans were held in internment camps during WW2 ? No, of course you don't. Why don't you know ? I tell you why. Because it does neatly fit in with your theory of racism. The number was 11,507.  Were they held because of race ? No, of course not.


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## Traveler (Apr 7, 2018)

I now with draw from this thread. My goal has been achieved. I got people to think about matters of national importance and perhaps learn something.

I wish to thank all those who sent PM's in support but did not post because of fear of personal attack.  Please remember, do not be afraid to speak out, in fear of personal attack. That is exactly what the opposition wants, to fill you with fear, to keep you intimidated and silent.


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## rkunsaw (Apr 7, 2018)

I haven't been following this thread but have just been reading some of it. I completely agree with Traveler and can't think of anything to add to what he has said.


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## dpwspringer (Apr 7, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Any comparison between America and the Nazi German death camps is pure hysteria. And sinks below the level of reason. I am aware that there are many America haters both here and abroad but that is disgusting.
> 
> The ONLY thing America is doing is trying to stop ILLEGAL ALIENS from flooding our country.


People that cannot see that difference are beyond help and no amount of facts will change their minds.


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## Gary O' (Apr 7, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I now with draw from this thread. My goal has been achieved.



Ah, yes

Divide and Concur

Divide members
Concur with self

Time to move on 
To something else worth hating, perhaps orphans

Your work is done here

Good job


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 7, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> OK, I have to say that that is ridiculous.   America is the "home of the free," which definitely includes wearing the clothing of your choice.    As long as people's private parts aren't on display I couldn't care less what type of clothing they are wearing.   Good grief.



But, just like “Freedom Of Speech”, which some say we can speak any way we want to, to anybody (which is obviously BS), if a person doesn’t want to look like an American or speak the language...... they can go back to their own country! IMO

BTW, just what does “Good Grief” mean? Only kidding.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 7, 2018)

rkunsaw said:


> I haven't been following this thread but have just been reading some of it. I completely agree with Traveler and can't think of anything to add to what he has said.



 IOW, a total YES!!


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## Gary O' (Apr 7, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I now with draw from this thread. My goal has been achieved. I got people to think about matters of national importance and perhaps learn something.
> 
> .



End of discussion?
Really?
Permit me to pick up what’s left of the clean end of the baton for a bit

Drug trafficking from Mexico into the US
I believe that was a major part of the original platform of this thread

Seems every supply exists only when there’s a demand
Supply; Mexico, or thru Mexico
Demand: Legal US citizens
Yes, _*we*_ are the market

How to solve?
Stop Mexican refugees from escaping into America by criminalizing them
And for Gawdsake do not look within our pristine society
Heaven sakes no
Nobody here buying all these drugs
It’s prolly those Mexican refugees and all their bad habits..oh, and money they don’t have

I so love to see my tax dollar put to good use

Yes, sarcasm (for those buying in to the original load of crap)


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## Don M. (Apr 7, 2018)

The Best way to reduce illegal immigration, IMO, is to remove the incentives for the illegals to come here.  The FIRST thing that should be done is to levy heavy fines against any employers who Hire these illegals.  If the jobs dry up, the majority of these illegals will not find any financial reason for coming here.  Second, there should be NO social benefits offered to anyone here illegally....food, health care, etc.  If they try to get such benefits, they should be given immediate needs, then deported ASAP.  The laws should be rewritten so as to Remove the Anchor Baby measures...illegals coming here to have a child, so they can claim a right to be here is an open invitation that needs to be closed.  Illegals that commit crimes should not be deported...rather they should be thrown in a jail environment similar to that which the Arizona sheriff, Joe Arpaio ran for years....And, those who are found to be here after having been deported, multiple times, should be thrown in the same jail.  

As for our own people who are drug addicts, and create the massive drug traffic problems, those people should be thrown into a special prison for addicts, and left to suffer the withdrawal symptoms with NO special treatment.  If they have to suffer days or weeks of misery while going through withdrawal, perhaps their feeble brains will begin to realize that using drugs is Not in their best interest.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 7, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Agreed. We have plenty of America haters right here in our own country and they don't care one bit about what is best for this country. What is best ? Obeying the law is best!
> 
> *Hey, JB, have you ever wondered why some of these posters openly support illegal activity ?*


Another not so subtle attempt at baiting.  I am not surprised.


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## JB in SC (Apr 7, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> Another not so subtle attempt at baiting.  I am not surprised.



Doesn't bother me at all. If I don't know, I don't respond.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 7, 2018)

With the exception of the "non-Americans" who commented in this thread, we have a microcosm of what's wrong with the USA today.   Divided, we fall.   

We are being invaded and people are fine with it.   

And one more observation for you of other nations.   If I were to cross YOUR BORDER illegally, you can bet your behind I'd be "interned" in your country.   Think about it.


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## JaniceM (Apr 7, 2018)

Traveler said:


> JaniceM, as you area new-comer to this thread, I'll take the time and a great deal of patience to explain to you that there are an estimated *9-11 million* illegal Mexicans living in this country. That is exactly 100 times the number of illegal Canadians (if I use 10 million as an average).
> 
> It does you no good to attempt to insert race in the equation. The concept of race you bring up is, at best, disingenuous. And at worst an obvious attempt to inflame the Kool-ade drinkers. If there were only 100 K illegal Mexicans living in the U.S. no one would care. certainly I would not.
> 
> ...



'Even' me, huh?  lol
To the first bolded part of your post:  similar to what I was reading on Canadian immigrants last night, it's certainly easier for a Canadian to 'vanish' into 'American anonymity' than for a Mexican to do so.  If someone came here from Canada and stood beside you, would _you _be able to determine that the person was not a native-born American citizen?  Kinda doubt it.

The second bolded part:  in CA, I was quite a ways north of the location you specify as your location;  however, only a 'handful' of individuals in the area were _not _Mexican, and it was not a 'hotbed of criminal activity.'  In TX, though, I lived approx. a block from the border;  while there was gang and drug activity, those who committed these illegal activities kept it amongst themselves, and those of us who were not involved in such things weren't really affected by it.  I'm certainly not saying it's o.k., but what I am saying is such individuals were in the minority.  

Also, someone commented about a) people who hate America, and b) people who condone lawlessness.  Neither of these comments describe me.  First, I love this country, and I do believe one important point it stands for is stated on the Statue of Liberty-  and it does not say 'except for individuals from certain countries.'  Second, I'm a law-abiding citizen- and taxpayer- and the mother of a National Guard soldier and a police officer.  I do not like crime or criminals, but it is wrong to blame an entire population for the wrongs of a few.  If there are more 'Mexicans' being picked up for serious crimes, it is a safe bet to say statistics like you mentioned are based on the fact that they are more easily recognized.  For that matter, when others commit serious crimes, how often are their backgrounds even mentioned?


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## Olivia (Apr 7, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Ah, yes
> 
> Divide and Concur
> 
> ...



Yes, dividing the members of these forums. I personally didn't really want to know the political opinions of other members here. Really doesn't do anything for me. I thought being a friendly forum was enough with all the topics here. Apparently not good enough for a person who would rather stir up trouble to excite his life.  Does not anyone else recognize the trend of his threads?  No longer the nice "friendly" forum anymore. All he has to do is put the lure on the hook and he pulls 'em in. Not an argument one way or the other. Just saying. Just an observation.


----------



## Traveler (Apr 7, 2018)

Even though I have withdrawn from discussing this topic any more, I want to say that I find the "superior, holier-than-thou" attitude of many here to be revolting.  

Moreover, the endless personal attacks on anyone who has the unmitigated gall to think for themselves, is beneath contempt.

You are not fooling anyone. Your attempts to destroy America are paying huge dividends.

 You may now congratulate yourselves for having intimidated so many and in silencing them.


----------



## ClassicRockr (Apr 7, 2018)

As for me, I still, and WILL continue to, side with Traveler’s feelings and opinions on this topic.


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## Olivia (Apr 7, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Even though I have withdrawn from discussing this topic any more, I want to say that I find the "superior, holier-than-thou" attitude of many here to be revolting.
> 
> Moreover, the endless personal attacks on anyone who has the unmitigated gall to think for themselves, is beneath contempt.
> 
> ...



Keep reeling them in. You're doing a very good job.


----------



## Olivia (Apr 7, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> As for me, I still, and WILL continue to, side with Traveler’s feelings and opinions on this topic.



I'd be the last person to want to stop your personally


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## JB in SC (Apr 7, 2018)

Pretty simple to either put a person on ignore or not open the thread started by that person. Passions run very deep on these subjects, and not a single person will be swayed by an unknown internet entity of any political stripe. The postings indicate a low tolerance of varying opinions by either side.


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## Olivia (Apr 7, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Pretty simple to either put a person on ignore or not open the thread started by that person. Passions run very deep on these subjects, and not a single person will be swayed by an unknown internet entity of any political stripe. The postings indicate a low tolerance of varying opinions by either side.



Exactly why these type of topics that are really political views in disguise, which are not allowed on Sf. I've been through this kind of stuff on other forums which is why I came here. Anyone having read the words "No politics please" should have known that. As far as self-censorship, never thought I would have to do that on Senior Forums.


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## NancyNGA (Apr 7, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> Pretty simple to either put a person on ignore or not open the thread started by that person. Passions run very deep on these subjects, and not a single person will be swayed by an unknown internet entity of any political stripe. The postings indicate a low tolerance of varying opinions by either side.


I agree with you in principle.  But both "sides" have to do the ignoring.  Otherwise, if one side is allowed to go unchallenged, the forum gets a reputation as biased, one way or the other.  Not attractive to new members in general.  Only to those who agree, or those who get a thrill out of arguing.


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## JB in SC (Apr 7, 2018)

NancyNGA said:


> I agree with you in principle.  But both "sides" have to do the ignoring.  Otherwise, if one opinion is allowed to go unchallenged, the forum gets a reputation as biased, one way or the other.  Not attractive to new members in general.  Only to those who agree, or those who get a thrill out of arguing.



I understand that, and as a rule seldom get into such conversations. Some interest me quite a bit and I don't particularly enjoy seeing one side railroaded for stating an opinion.

I've never put anyone on any forum on ignore. I'm an adult and can either handle it or move on to anther topic. 

If No Politics is the policy, perhaps this section needs to be changed.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 7, 2018)

I actually thought that we were doing a good job of keeping politics out of this discussion and it is my hope that we can continue to have such lively discussions in the future.

I do feel bad when people can't accept the views of another without casting them into utter darkness, hurling insults or making all or nothing comments about them or their position on an issue.

I enjoy knowing a little something about the opinions of others it helps me to weigh the value of their comments to me on a variety of issues.


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## Shalimar (Apr 7, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I actually thought that we were doing a good job of keeping politics out of this discussion and it is my hope that we can continue to have such lively discussions in the future.
> 
> I do feel bad when people can't accept the views of another without casting them into utter darkness, hurling insults or making all or nothing comments about them or their position on an issue.
> 
> I actually enjoy knowing a little something about the opinions of others it helps me to weigh the value of their comments to me on a variety of issues.


I agree. I thought I remained courteous, discussing issues and avoiding personal attacks, if not, I humbly apologise if I stepped over the line.


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 7, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> I agree. I thought I remained courteous, discussing issues and avoiding personal attacks, if not, I humbly apologise if I stepped over the line.



Most likely, a lot of us “stepped over the line”. That’s because there’s so much disagreement on this topic. Both sides want to be right! That’s pretty typical concerning any debate/disagreement.


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## Warrigal (Apr 7, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Are you and Australia volunteering to accept all 9-11 million of Americas illegal aliens ?


Not at all. I just want asylum seekers to be enfolded into our population. As for illegal aliens, we have our share. Most enter the country using the visa system and overstay them or work illegally using inappropriate visas. Their 'crime' is one of deception rather than anything more serious. Most are not caught but those that are are arrested and deported. 

We have recently been deporting New Zealanders, who don't need a visa, on character grounds if they come before the courts, even for very minor offences. Some of them left NZ as children and know no-one in NZ and this practice does split families. Most of the deportees are Maori. It is controversial. The reason for these policies? Not national security but the desire of politicians to appear tough on border control.

How many would I accept? I can't put a figure on it and remembering that we are but 25 million compared to the US 250+ million, but I know that we could easily absorb many more than the 20,000 or so that we take in each year while patting ourselves on the back about it.


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## Stormy (Apr 7, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I actually thought that we were doing a good job of keeping politics out of this discussion and it is my hope that we can continue to have such lively discussions in the future.
> 
> I do feel bad when people can't accept the views of another without casting them into utter darkness, hurling insults or making all or nothing comments about them or their position on an issue
> 
> I enjoy knowing a little something about the opinions of others it helps me to weigh the value of their comments to me on a variety of issues.



You're right Aunt Bea the replies in this thread were very interesting to read and politics were kept out of the discussion. Except for a couple of people who can't accept the views of another and fire back by hurling insults this thread has been a good read. I read more than I post here but I'd like to thank the OP for bringing up this important American issue that weighs heavy on our minds every day and I learn from hearing other people's opinions and whether I agree with them or not I resent them being stifled by a few

Some of us have more up close experience with illegals than others depending on where we live so their opinions about the severity of the problem have different basis for their views. I mostly know Mexicans who have become legal citizens and they hate the illegals being here and taking advantage of our great country and its legal citizens. Someone said earlier that there are illegals from other countries too coming here and that's true but they come through our southern border

The amount of illegals coming in are unsustainable and we have to start to make a working plan. I think the children who came here illegally because of their parents should be able to stay but they have to be put on a path to citizenship if they want to stay in the United States, that's the only way it will work for the best interest of our country. Ces't Moi is right about how she would be treated if she went to Australia or Canada illegally I heard about how they do the boat people dirty in Australia and I have had to go through the third degree with Canadian border patrol they don't let anybody wander into their country like we have illegals sneaking in through the Mexican border. They have no idea of how it is in the USA but are quick to judge


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## Linda W. (Apr 7, 2018)

Hmm. All of a sudden, we here in Texas and other border areas have a big emergency worth sending in troops. Wondering why? Maybe because it's an election year? Or to distract people from what's going on in that other place...Washington, D. C.?


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## Shalimar (Apr 7, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Most likely, a lot of us “stepped over the line”. That’s because there’s so much disagreement on this topic. Both sides want to be right! That’s pretty typical concerning any debate/disagreement.


Excellent post.


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## Gary O' (Apr 7, 2018)

Stormy said:


> You're right Aunt Bea the replies in this thread were very interesting to read and politics were kept out of the discussion. Except for a couple of people who can't accept the views of another and fire back by hurling insults....


Heh, I’m prolly wunna the two
Sorry for that
Truth be told, I don’t give two hoots what anyone is.
Leftist, righty? I lean both directions on many topics. I must be politidextrous.
Oopsy, did a poli poli bad bad there.

Anyway 

Never been given to liking govmnt handouts to….anyone
Yet, not quite into rounding up refugees into herds until they can be properly sorted and branded. 

Nutshell in regard to these thread types;
Nobody after 50 is gonna go _‘oh….well….I never knew that, I’ll jus’ turn my thinking around and go the other way for awhile, until the next pontifical revelation’
_
The good news is, in this day and websterrific age of spreading self centered gospel, anyone can blow like the wind, get it allllllll out
Hats off to Travy for that

I’ll work very hard to contain myself when entering these thread types, and hold it to inserting a quip here and there

Y'all keep a fire


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## ClassicRockr (Apr 8, 2018)

Gary O' said:


> Heh, I’m prolly wunna the two
> Sorry for that
> Truth be told, I don’t give two hoots what anyone is.
> Leftist, righty? I lean both directions on many topics. I must be politidextrous.
> ...



Gary, I didn't think people in Oregon said "Y'all". That's a southern word.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 8, 2018)

Maybe he's in southern Oregon ...


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## WhatInThe (Apr 8, 2018)

I thought I heard the troops would be used for maintenance and repair of existing walls and fences, not patrols or arrests. Just keeping on top of maintenance issues could make things easier for the Border Patrol.


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## Knight (Apr 8, 2018)

Quote
"Never been given to liking govmnt handouts to….anyone
Yet, not quite into rounding up refugees into herds until they can be properly sorted and branded."


I thought this thread was about putting National guard troops on the border to stop illegal entry into the U. S. I think people seeking refugee status would be treated differently as in not rounded up into herds. 

A lot of this could be avoided if the U. S. would adopt & enforce the same immigration laws Canada has. Or at least enforce the laws that are in place now.


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## SifuPhil (Apr 8, 2018)

WhatInThe said:


> I thought I heard the troops would be used for maintenance and repair of existing walls and fences, not patrols or arrests. Just keeping on top of maintenance issues could make things easier for the Border Patrol.



I think that's part of the Posse Comitatus Act, where the military cannot be used for domestic military or police actions (but can be used for support roles). 

It doesn't apply to the National Guard, though. Not sure what their powers would be.


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## WhatInThe (Apr 8, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> I think that's part of the Posse Comitatus Act, where the military cannot be used for domestic military or police actions (but can be used for support roles).
> 
> It doesn't apply to the National Guard, though. Not sure what their powers would be.



I thought a state of emergency would have to be declared by the locality/state governor for the guard to be used for law enforcement duty like after natural disasters or out of control rioting. This is new ground of sorts.


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## JB in SC (Apr 8, 2018)

WhatInThe said:


> I thought I heard the troops would be used for maintenance and repair of existing walls and fences, not patrols or arrests. Just keeping on top of maintenance issues could make things easier for the Border Patrol.



As in the past, the deployment is made under Title 32. The soldiers remain under command of their respective State Governors advised and coordinated by the Pentagon and DHS. The operational directive from the President via the Pentagon and SECDEF is that they are to serve in logistical support and take over the SIGINT end of patrolling the border.  Which in essence means more Border Patrol available to do the actual field operations including interception/interdiction, arrest and processing.


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## Sunny (Apr 8, 2018)

> Hmm. All of a sudden, we here in Texas and other border areas have a big  emergency worth sending in troops. Wondering why? Maybe because it's an  election year? Or to distract people from what's going on in that other  place...Washington, D. C.?



Linda, you (and others) will enjoy this. Every Sunday, the Washington Post has a very funny contest, where readers send in items. Today's contest featured 5-line original poetry.

If this issue is not familiar to everyone, there has been a big controversy over the name of our local football team, the Washington Redskins. Some people find the name offensive; others think the whole controversy is ridiculous.  Here's the poem that absolutely cracked me up:

The Washington Redskins
By Connie Dobber

The Washington Redskins name's offensive,
Rude, repugnant and rancor-intensive,
Reminding us of something disgraceful.
Get a moniker less distasteful:
Call them the Mid-Atlantic Redskins.


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## Butterfly (Apr 8, 2018)

JB in SC said:


> As in the past, the deployment is made under Title 32. The soldiers remain under command of their respective State Governors advised and coordinated by the Pentagon and DHS. The operational directive from the President via the Pentagon and SECDEF is that they are to serve in logistical support and take over the SIGINT end of patrolling the border.  Which in essence means more Border Patrol available to do the actual field operations including interception/interdiction, arrest and processing.



This my understanding as well.


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## Gary O' (Apr 8, 2018)

ClassicRockr said:


> Gary, I didn't think people in Oregon said "Y'all". That's a southern word.



My lady is from loooozeeeanna
I brought her up to Oreeegone
and her jargon


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## Traveler (Apr 8, 2018)

WhatInThe said:


> I thought a state of emergency would have to be declared by the locality/state governor for the guard to be used for law enforcement duty like after natural disasters or out of control rioting. This is new ground of sorts.




The National Guard can be used in any national security action domestic or foreign.


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