# How Should a Woman Protect Herself?



## Ruthanne (Apr 24, 2019)

Yes, this is about women but open for all thoughtful, considerate ideas for the help of us.  Men, too, need protection but I have made this about women.  Another thread about men could help the cause of men.  These are broad topics and it is enough IMHO to concentrate on women in this thread, thank you.

Many woman, of course it could be said most women have been through something that has lead them to need to think twice about her protection.  I am one of them.

What ideas do you have for women, without being offensive, do you honestly think will be helpful for us.  I have been through counseling, defensive training, carry pepper spray, have many defensive ideas and tactics, and am now totally still paranoid as to what is the Total answer to it all. 

So, I openly welcome your Well Thought Out and Helpful Ideas.  If I don't reply openly here it is to give me time to think or more...I often give reps for replies.  

Thank you in advance.......I still love peoplelayful:


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## Falcon (Apr 24, 2019)

Try  not to look  provocative.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 24, 2019)

I can't honestly reply.  I cannot conceive of what would drive a man to commit the ****** taking of a unwilling a female.  What pleasure could be taken from such an act.  I would only suggest that making a loud protest might scare off the crazy bastard..


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## Ruthanne (Apr 24, 2019)

Falcon said:


> Try  not to look  provocative.


Have to dress like a bear I guess...lol  and thank you:sentimental:


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## Ruthanne (Apr 24, 2019)

AZ Jim said:


> I can'y honestly reply.  I cannot conceive of what would drive a man to commit the ****** taking of a unwilling a female.  What pleasure could be taken from such an act.  I would only suggest that making a loud protest might scare off the crazy bastard..


Thank you.  I would try it the next time...hopefully it may help someone :love_heart:


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## Keesha (Apr 24, 2019)

Ruthanne:hug:

Ive been through stages of where you are now?
What are your biggest fears?
Walking alone at night?
Travelling in your car?
Being at home alone?

Were you recently assaulted?
What made you post this?


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## Keesha (Apr 24, 2019)

A loud whistle can be a deterrent from trouble makers 
A large well trained dog works well
Sharp pointy hair sticks 
Pocket Knife 
GPS on cell phone ... for emergency calls even if you are only pretending to use it
For making 911 calls 
For making video or audio 

It’s also really helpful to learn meditation or find a hobby that makes your heart sing again. 
Get lost in an amazing book 
Pamper yourself often 
Walk tall with your head held high with fearless confidence even if you don’t have it. After a while you will.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 24, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Ruthanne:hug:
> 
> Ive been through stages of where you are now?
> What are your biggest fears?
> ...


How I feel


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## Ruthanne (Apr 24, 2019)

Keesha said:


> A loud whistle can be a deterrent from trouble makers
> A large well trained dog works well
> Sharp pointy hair sticks
> Pocket Knife
> ...


Yep


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 24, 2019)

Well Ruthanne, I can tell you what I do to try and stay safe.  I always try to be aware of my surroundings, whether walking in the city or in the woods, I see if there's anyone around and then just observe them and make sure they're not a threat, usually if someone is walking by or hanging out, they're not looking to harm or bother anyone.  I have no fear in making eye contact with someone and saying hi or nodding to them, have done it many times without incident.

I did take a few martial arts classes in my early 20s, but never became really skilled or practiced enough to even imagine I was anywhere near being an expert.  But, I did learn some things to get away from someone or out of a hold they might have on me, luckily I never had to use any moves.  I do carry pepper spray, mostly for coyotes, but will use it on people if I feel threatened.  It's years old though, honestly, I'm not sure it will still give a good spray, may just drip out of the container.  Time to replace it for sure.

I do know not to 'show my hand' if I am attacked by a man, I have no delusion that I would be stronger than him and be able to overtake him physically, especially at my age.  But, there are things women can do, using their smarts to catch the attacker off-guard before taking any real action against him.  I would never be obvious about what I planned to do, whether it's spray his eyes with pepper spray, poke his eyes with my thumbs in a serious way, kicking him in the groin, then following up with a rip to the eyes or knee to the head once he was bent over, etc.

In a serious situation like rape, I may play along until his guard was down, and then do something I think would work to disable him in any way.  If someone is set on raping or killing me, I will absolutely fight for my life and will not give up.  I have no fear or shyness about hurting a creep like that, or killing him if needed.

I think it's really hard to give particular advice on things like this, we have to act when the moment presents itself and go with our gut feelings for survival.  If it's them or me and I have any choice in the matter, it will be them.  

I also lock my car door now if I'm alone in a parking lot at night, I don't give anyone a chance to rush me and open my door.  Years ago I never thought of such things, but watching the sick things that happen on the news, I like to try an avoid ever being a victim or statistic.


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## Keesha (Apr 24, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> How I feel


This I also understand. 
You ‘will’ feel love again. 
It might just take some time but have patience. 

If you are that fearful I would let a friend , relative, neighbour know where you are when you go out.


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## Knight (Apr 24, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> I think it's really hard to give particular advice on things like this, we have to act when the moment presents itself and go with our gut feelings for survival.  If it's them or me and I have any choice in the matter, it will be them.


As a thread with no specifics I think this part of your response makes the most sense.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 24, 2019)

I did post some specifics but maybe too subtly for some.


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## Keesha (Apr 24, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> I did post some specifics but maybe too subtly for some.


Just post whatever you feel comfortable with Ruthanne. We don’t need to know.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 24, 2019)

What I feel very comfortable with is the fact that I did not mean this topic to be specifically about me, I am only an example, it is a problem that most women face or have been faced with and I am asking for answers for ALL of us.  Thank you all.  :love_heart::sentimental:


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## win231 (Apr 24, 2019)

AZ Jim said:


> I can'y honestly reply.  I cannot conceive of what would drive a man to commit the ****** taking of a unwilling a female.  What pleasure could be taken from such an act.  I would only suggest that making a loud protest might scare off the crazy bastard..



According to a psychiatrist I heard during an interview, rape has very little to do with sex.  It involves a desire to hurt a woman.


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## Keesha (Apr 24, 2019)

win231 said:


> According to a psychiatrist I heard during an interview, rape has very little to do with sex.  It involves a desire to hurt a woman.


That’s right. Rape is about power and domination. It has little to do with sex but doesn’t disclude it.


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## win231 (Apr 24, 2019)

Both men & women have to be constantly aware of their surroundings & not put themselves in potentially-risky situations.  I'm a reasonably-able man & I avoid dark parking lots & I've also learned to keep an eye on homeless people, after two people were stabbed to death by homeless people recently.  When out at night, I avoid stopping anywhere; I'll go directly home.  I do all my walking during daylight.  I'm really surprised at how many women will go for a stroll after dark - especially in a park.  Something I would NEVER do.  Not smart. 

Self defense, pepper spray, defensive classes & similar things are OK....provided you acknowledge their limitations & remember that you are still out of the weight & strength category of most men.  Fine, if that's all you have,   The only weapon that puts a woman on par with a male attacker is a firearm.  Think about it: The world's biggest, strongest & best professional (male) fighter would be utterly helpless against a 100-lb. woman with a gun.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 24, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> What I feel very comfortable with is the fact that I did not mean this topic to be specifically about me, I am only an example, it is a problem that most women face or have been faced with and I am asking for answers for ALL of us.



I understood exactly what you meant in this thread, it's a generalization and it doesn't have to be about you at all.  Women do face this problem during their lives, it's not uncommon.  Good topic for discussion!

  I'll add that if I'm alone at home and my husband is out of town, I'll take extra precautions in locking the back door at night, being sure everything's secure before I go to bed, etc.  We have security doors and windows on our house, intalled them decades ago so when we went on vacation the house would be more secure.  Also, when I was alone, I could peacefully leave the window open at night with no fear of anyone entering, also answer the front door and be able to talk with someone without giving them a chance to barge in.  Of course, I always have a gun at the ready if needed, but over 40 years, I haven't needed to use it yet except for target practice.


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## Keesha (Apr 24, 2019)

Carrying a firearm would land me in prison. We aren’t even allowed to injure someone if they break into the house. 
It’s a crazy law but that’s Canada.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 24, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> I understood exactly what you meant in this thread, it's a generalization and it doesn't have to be about you at all.  Women do face this problem during their lives, it's not uncommon.  Good topic for discussion!
> 
> I'll add that if I'm alone at home and my husband is out of town, I'll take extra precautions in locking the back door at night, being sure everything's secure before I go to bed, etc.  We have security doors and windows on our house, intalled them decades ago so when we went on vacation the house would be more secure.  Also, when I was alone, I could peacefully leave the window open at night with no fear of anyone entering, also answer the front door and be able to talk with someone without giving them a chance to barge in.  Of course, I always have a gun at the ready if needed, but over 40 years, I haven't needed to use it yet except for target practice.


Keep that 38 close...who cane tell in this time and age.

Wouldn't it be so cool to be in a "place" where we did not need a thing and there was just a peacefullness that was really real


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## Ruthanne (Apr 24, 2019)

I would love to own an arsenal.   But cannot afford it in any way.


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## Gary O' (Apr 24, 2019)

If…you’re caught unawares, anything with a pointed end, even a Bic pen, can be a formidable weapon.

Stab at any part of the person nearest you, arm/hand whatever, but aim for the face if and when you have that chance.
Don't quit stabbing.

Here, in the sticks, my wife carries a knife or revolver.
She walks 5 to 10 miles a day.
Nobody around.
But she’s aware and able if anyone or anything charges her


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## AZ Jim (Apr 24, 2019)

My Dad owned a bar years ago.  One night the conversations turned to rape.  Harvey a regular at the tavern said "I've told Marge if ever she is being raped rather than being hurt she should lie there and pretend she is enjoying it".  She said (in response),  "that will be easy, I've done it ever since we were married!"


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 24, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> If…you’re caught unawares, anything with a pointed end, even a Bic pen, can be a formidable weapon.
> 
> Stab at any part of the person nearest you, arm/hand whatever, but aim for the face if and when you have that chance.
> Don't quit stabbing.



Good advice Gary, the face is always good, especially the eyes.  But as I mentioned before, try not to project your intended moves beforehand, giving him an chance to block or stop them.  Catch him off-guard if possible.


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## Gary O' (Apr 24, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> Good advice Gary, the face is always good, especially the eyes.  But as I mentioned before, try not to project your intended moves beforehand, giving him an chance to block or stop them.  Catch him off-guard if possible.



Absolutely


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## Keesha (Apr 24, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> How I feel





Ruthanne said:


> Yep


I don’t understand this at all Ruthanne.:shrug:


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## Don M. (Apr 24, 2019)

If I were a women, in today's crazy world, I wouldn't leave the house without a small canister of Mace or Pepper Spray...and have it in a location where I could get to it quickly...not buried in the purse.


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## 911 (Apr 25, 2019)

1. Always be aware of your surroundings
2. Trust your instincts
3. Carry pepper spray
4. Be ready to fight
5. If the woman finds herself in an uncomfortable situation, make a plan to get away from that area
6. Take a self-defense class
7. (I saved the most important for last) *IF YOU ARE DRIVING AND MADE TO STOP,* *NEVER GET INTO THE ABDUCTOR'S VEHICLE*. 

There are a few good self-defense moves for women on YouTube. Check them out and then practice the moves that think you can more easily do.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 25, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> If…you’re caught unawares, anything with a pointed end, even a Bic pen, can be a formidable weapon.
> 
> Stab at any part of the person nearest you, arm/hand whatever, but aim for the face if and when you have that chance.
> Don't quit stabbing.
> ...


Yep, thanks Gary:sentimental:


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## Ruthanne (Apr 25, 2019)

911 said:


> 1. Always be aware of your surroundings
> 2. Trust your instincts
> 3. Carry pepper spray
> 4. Be ready to fight
> ...


Great post 911, thank you.


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## Chucktin (Apr 25, 2019)

Don't be a victim.
Sounds patronizing and simple but I don't mean it that way. Some individuals, female and make, present themselves as prey.
Not being prey starts with being situational aware. As an example - brother and I took mother to DC while she was still alive. At the Monument she attracted a couple of JDs looking for vulnerables until they saw us, and no, we are not "Arnolds" by any means.


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## squatting dog (Apr 25, 2019)

All of what 911 said, plus.....


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## Ruthanne (Apr 25, 2019)

squatting dog said:


> All of what 911 said, plus.....


Yes~:hug:


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## JustBonee (Apr 25, 2019)

911 said:


> 1. Always be aware of your surroundings
> 2. Trust your instincts
> 3. Carry pepper spray
> 4. Be ready to fight
> ...




Another ... if out driving and someone bumps into your car, especially at night, never stop.


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## treeguy64 (Apr 25, 2019)

Sleep behind a well-secured door. Make sure your house is locked up, before hitting the hay. Get a top-notch security system installed and, most importantly, become friends with Mr. Glock: Always have him with you, have a license to carry, know how to use your sidearm. Avoid dangerous areas, when possible. Don't roam around at night, unless absolutely necessary.


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## Uptosnuff (Apr 25, 2019)

I work in a downtown building in my local.  There are a lot of homeless people down here, much more so since Katrina.  Every now and then the company will send out emails mainly to the female employees about safety in walking around downtown.  They suggest not walking alone, being aware of your surroundings, etc.  I love to walk and need to, to just get away from work for awhile.  Sometimes I walk with another person, but sometimes I just need to walk by myself.

I took a safety class through my company and one of the things they recommended is to carry your cell phone with you.  If you are fearful of someone walking behind you, take out your cell phone and dial or just pretend to dial and talk on it.  Stop and face the person behind you when you do this.  Everyone carries a cell phone anymore and I think this is good advice.  I have never carried a gun or a knife and don't think I ever would.  Anything you have on you can be used as a weapon if need be.  The rings on your fingers, the toe of your shoe, even your knees and elbows if used that way.

Sad to think this way, but this is reality.


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## Sunny (Apr 25, 2019)

Uptosnuff, except that they could grab the cell phone and run off with it. Better than being physically assaulted, I guess.

Squatting Dog, no, that is a terrible idea, and a large part of what is wrong with this country right now. Much more likely to create problems than to prevent them.


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## treeguy64 (Apr 25, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Uptosnuff, except that they could grab the cell phone and run off with it. Better than being physically assaulted, I guess.
> 
> Squatting Dog, no, that is a terrible idea, and a large part of what is wrong with this country right now. Much more likely to create problems than to prevent them.



Must disagree, but don't want this to turn into a pro/anti gun ownership thread. Only one incontrovertible truth: If law-abiding people are prevented from owning guns, rest assured that bad people will still get them, especially in the US. Any assertions, contrary to that, are laughable nonsense from the incredibly naive.


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## Gary O' (Apr 25, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Must disagree, but don't want this to turn into a pro/anti gun ownership thread. Only one incontrovertible truth: If law-abiding people are prevented from owning guns, rest assured that bad people will still get them, especially in the US. Any assertions, contrary to that, are laughable nonsense from the incredibly naive.



I gotta agree whole heartedly

Where we are, if yer not armed, yer a sitting duck

The small towns here, it's the same

The city is different


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## Sunny (Apr 25, 2019)

And that mentality is responsible for a lot of the tragedy we are going through right now. I would not want to live in a place where everybody is walking around armed to the teeth, with an itchy trigger finger ready to "protect' them every time somebody looks suspicious.  How many more innocent people have to be shot before we realize how wrong this is?

One non-lethal answer to the original question asked in this thread is a loud screeching siren that goes off when you push a button. I've seen those devices advertised. Or carry a small container of tear gas. Best of all: don't walk alone, especially at night, in a dangerous area.


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## Lara (Apr 25, 2019)

I live in the 5th safest city in America (another site says 9th). 
It has been that ranking for as long as I can remember. 
But it gives me a false since of security because crime does happen.


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## Gary O' (Apr 25, 2019)

Sunny said:


> How many more innocent people have to be shot before we realize how wrong this is?



How many have to be shot or raped before we realize how right it is?


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## Shalimar (Apr 25, 2019)

Keesha said:


> That’s right. Rape is about power and domination. It has little to do with sex but doesn’t disclude it.


Absolutely, and dressing conservatively or otherwise would have no bearing. Besides it implies a responsibility for behaviour which belongs solely to the man, not to any woman. No woman is reponsible for her own rape.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 25, 2019)

Don M. said:


> If I were a women, in today's crazy world, I wouldn't leave the house without a small canister of Mace or Pepper Spray...and have it in a location where I could get to it quickly...not buried in the purse.



I have to say that although I try to be aware and make smart choices when I'm out alone,especially at night, I'm not paranoid in any way.  You see a lot of lunatics on the news every day, but most people, in my experience are not out to get you, kill you or harm you.  For me, 'today's' crazy world was happening many, many years ago, just didn't get the excessive news coverage it gets now.

 I got my pepper spray for coyotes, but pretty much just carry it with me if I have my cargo pants on with nice big pockets or a jacket with a pocket, so it is handy.    I don't generally carry, but would get a permit if I felt I needed one for safety, so far I don't feel that I need it.  I have a gun in my home and always have a pistol and rifle when out in the woods camping.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 25, 2019)

If a person is prepared to use a gun without warning then I think that it can be a good option but if a person wants to wave it about as a warning then I think that they are better off without a gun.

For most older folks I think the best option is to stay in the middle of the herd and not go to places without lots of other people around.


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## Trade (Apr 25, 2019)

Fight dirty. Bite, kick, claw and go for the vulnerable spots. Kick or punch him in the balls if you can, but even better go for the eyes. Try to bury your finger into one or both of his eye sockets all the way to the third knuckle. And if you manage to get the upper hand don't let up. Do society a favor and finish him off. And when the cops question you keep repeating the magic words "I feared for my life" every chance you get. 

Now that I think of it, this advice goes for dudes too.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 25, 2019)

Good advice Trade, if you have to fight for your life, by all means FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE!


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## Lara (Apr 25, 2019)

Trade said:


> Fight dirty. Bite, kick, claw and go for the vulnerable spots. Kick or punch him in the balls if you can, but even better go for the eyes. Try to bury your finger into one or both of his eye sockets all the way to the third knuckle. And if you manage to get the upper hand don't let up. Do society a favor and finish him off.


Aren't you going a little too easy on the guy? :laugh:. I shouldn't joke. It's not at all funny I know. But wouldn't the offender first say something like, "if you scream or resist I'll kill you"? Then what?


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## Trade (Apr 25, 2019)

Lara said:


> Aren't you going a little too easy on the guy? :laugh:. I shouldn't joke. It's not at all funny I know. But wouldn't the offender first say something like, "if you scream or resist I'll kill you"? Then what?



They way I figure it, if you don't resist odds are he's going to kill you anyway. So if you're gonna go out, go out fighting. And remember, the biggest impediment to winning a fight is the mistaken notion that you have to fight fair.


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## Knight (Apr 25, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> Yes, this is about women but open for all thoughtful, considerate ideas for the help of us.  Men, too, need protection but I have made this about women.  Another thread about men could help the cause of men.  These are broad topics and it is enough IMHO to concentrate on women in this thread, thank you.
> 
> Many woman, of course it could be said most women have been through something that has lead them to need to think twice about her protection.  I am one of them.
> 
> ...


I'm kinda at a loss when it comes to trying to think of helpful ideas. I realize this is a broad topic. Maybe the various situations where a woman would or could use helpful ideas would help me understand what you are asking for. A few that came to mind. 

Car jacking
Walking in a parking lot with a lot of packages
Rape prevention recognizing the potential
Spousal abuse
Car repair rip offs
Health issues like depression or obesity <------ recognizing the reason or reasons
Rejection due to lifestyle choice


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## Trade (Apr 25, 2019)

This thread reminded me of this youtube clip of Louis CK's. 

But be forewarned, Louis gets a little crude at the end. If you are sensitive to that sort of thing cut it off at the 3 minute mark.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 25, 2019)

Trade said:


> *They way I figure it, if you don't resist odds are he's going to kill you anyway.* So if you're gonna go out, go out fighting. And remember, the biggest impediment to winning a fight is the mistaken notion that you have to fight fair.



Exactly.   So make sure there's plenty of his DNA under your fingernails.


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## Knight (Apr 25, 2019)

Lara said:


> Aren't you going a little too easy on the guy? :laugh:. I shouldn't joke. It's not at all funny I know. But wouldn't the offender first say something like, "if you scream or resist I'll kill you"? Then what?


This thread seems to focus on rape. Fighting to survive is one way to protect yourself or at least trying to live after the fact.  I haven't read any responses that delve into how a woman manages to be in the position to be raped. Any woman want to toss out ideas of the situation that would help others to prevent rape from taking place. There must be a variety of circumstance that could trigger that self preservation instinct.


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## applecruncher (Apr 25, 2019)

On a first date never get into the car of a guy you don't know well. If you're meeting for drinks or dinner take your own car or make sure you have cabfare to get home.

And it should go without saying but never go to the hotel room of a man you just met a couple hours ago.  Amazing how often women will do this.


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## Butterfly (Apr 25, 2019)

911 said:


> 1. Always be aware of your surroundings
> 2. Trust your instincts
> 3. Carry pepper spray
> 4. Be ready to fight
> ...



I was at a self-protection talk by a police officer and he said the same thing.  Once you get into that bad guy's vehicle, you are probably a dead woman.  Fight for your life BEFORE you get into that vehicle, because you probably have little to no chance if you think you can wait until later.  

I carry mace and I always drive with my windows up and my doors locked.  If you don't and you are stopped at a stop light or something, it's very easy for someone to just get in your car and take over or just reach in your window and grab your purse.  If I'm going to be away from heavily traveled areas I carry a .38 in my car (it's legal here) to protect myself against both two and four-legged predators.

I am careful to always be aware of my surroundings, especially if I am on foot.  If it's dark and I am concerned about walking in the parking lot to get to my car, I don't hesitate to ask in the store for someone to walk me to my car.  You're fairly easy prey if you are alone and bent over putting groceries in your car.

Doing the kind of work I did for years, I do not trust my fellow man worth a flip.


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## Butterfly (Apr 26, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Must disagree, but don't want this to turn into a pro/anti gun ownership thread. Only one incontrovertible truth: If law-abiding people are prevented from owning guns, rest assured that bad people will still get them, especially in the US. Any assertions, contrary to that, are laughable nonsense from the incredibly naive.



I agree wholeheartedly.  Based on the work I used to do, it's much easier for bad guys to get guns than it is for law abiding citizens.  I was amazed at the ease with which black-market guns are available --"see the guy on the corner."


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## Butterfly (Apr 26, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> Good advice Trade, if you have to fight for your life, by all means FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE!



Absolutely!


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## Butterfly (Apr 26, 2019)

Knight said:


> This thread seems to focus on rape. Fighting to survive is one way to protect yourself or at least trying to live after the fact.  I haven't read any responses that delve into how a woman manages to be in the position to be raped. Any woman want to toss out ideas of the situation that would help others to prevent rape from taking place. There must be a variety of circumstance that could trigger that self preservation instinct.



Unfortunately, a woman can "manage to be in the position to be raped" by just walking down the street minding her own business.  It's a big fat myth that most women who are raped are either dressed very provocatively or somehow "asking for it."  Rape victims are all ages, sizes, degrees of physical attractiveness, and dressed in all manner of ways.  It is NEVER the woman's fault, IMHO.  We had a serial rapist here a few years ago who went around raping women in their 70s and 80s.


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## Keesha (Apr 26, 2019)

Knight said:


> This thread seems to focus on rape. Fighting to survive is one way to protect yourself or at least trying to live after the fact.  I haven't read any responses that delve into how a woman manages to be in the position to be raped. Any woman want to toss out ideas of the situation that would help others to prevent rape from taking place. There must be a variety of circumstance that could trigger that self preservation instinct.



Sure! I’ll toss out an idea how women can prevent being raped. 

Dont be a female!!! Try really hard to be a man. 

I’m sorry but this truly is a :what: comment.
Rape is NOT about sex or being provocatively dressed.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2019)

Raising our sons to respect women is key.


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## Knight (Apr 26, 2019)

Butterfly said:


> Unfortunately, a woman can "manage to be in the position to be raped" by just walking down the street minding her own business. It's a big fat myth that most women who are raped are either dressed very provocatively or somehow "asking for it." Rape victims are all ages, sizes, degrees of physical attractiveness, and dressed in all manner of ways. It is NEVER the woman's fault, IMHO. We had a serial rapist here a few years ago who went around raping women in their 70s and 80s.




I wasn't posting that a woman was in anyway responsible for being raped. My intent was to point out this thread seems to be limiting rape to adult women. Maybe that is the intent I just thought expanding it to include.
https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/7855zx/when-youre-a-woman-raped-by-a-woman


Quote
"Rape victims are all ages, sizes, degrees of physical attractiveness"




What about infants & pre teen. I can only guess physical attractiveness is in the mind of a rapist.


Live long enough to read perpetrators aren't really unique in appearance. Fathers, brothers, uncles, cousins, next door neighbors, boyfriends, casual acquaintances, serial rapists, professionals like doctors & dentists, politicians, corporate execs, entertainment industry leaders and actors, & police.


No matter how often stories about drinking on spring break are in the news rapes still happen. Warnings about rufies the date rape drug should be enough of a warning but there are still instances in the news. This is not an easy topic to try to cover all the potentials. Most of the replies consider the common situations which unfortunately still occur.


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## Manatee (Apr 26, 2019)

First and foremost, female or male, be aware of your surroundings.  There was a piece recently of a woman who was so focused on her cell phone that she walked into the side of a moving train.  Nothing can protect you from inattention.


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## win231 (Apr 26, 2019)

Manatee said:


> First and foremost, female or male, be aware of your surroundings.  There was a piece recently of a woman who was so focused on her cell phone that she walked into the side of a moving train.  Nothing can protect you from inattention.



Also a video of a woman in China texting or talking on her phone.  She walked into an open manhole & was never found.


----------



## win231 (Apr 26, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> On a first date never get into the car of a guy you don't know well. If you're meeting for drinks or dinner take your own car or make sure you have cabfare to get home.
> 
> And it should go without saying but never go to the hotel room of a man you just met a couple hours ago.  Amazing how often women will do this.



I'm surprised at people who get a knock at their front door & automatically open it to see who's there.  That's how home invasions start.  That applies to men and women.  I see who it is.  If I don't know them, I ask "who is it?"  If I'm not expecting anyone, the door stays closed.  If it's a utility person or someone I feel I should open the door to, well...they better not have bad intentions because I'm carrying concealed & they won't live long.

I'm lucky enough to live in a nice area - many celebrities as neighbors.  It doesn't matter anymore; crime happens everywhere.
A few months ago, I went out to get the mail - armed outside, as usual.  My mailbox is 85 feet from my front door.  Just as I got to the box, a guy gets out of his car, parked across the street & approaches me.  I kept my eye on him as I backed away into my driveway.  He's around 45 years younger than me, & around 6'8" - not someone I would fight with.
When he got into my driveway, I put up my hand & said "Stop."
He says, "Hey man...I just ran out of gas; can you give me a ride to the gas station?"
I said, "No, but I'll be happy to call someone for you."
He says, "Aw, c'mon, man...I just need a ride."  Then he starts approaching me again.  By now, he's in my driveway.
I said, "I...said..., STOP!"
When he kept coming, I lifted my shirt & twisted so he could see the gun.  He says, "Whoa, dude."  I said, "Goodbye, dude."

Guess what he did next?  He walked across the street, got back in his car (that he said was out of gas), started it & drove off.  Yeah....I wonder what he was planning....

As he drove off, I noted his license plate number & called police.  They told me, "If you're willing to wait FOUR HOURS, we can come & take a report."  I was mad & said, "If you pull him over, you'll probably find burglary tools in his car & evidence of other crimes...maybe unsolved murders....why can't you do that?"  Cop says, "Well, you scared him off & he probably won't come back, so....."

"Protect and Serve???"


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## 911 (Apr 26, 2019)

I probably arrested a dozen college men for rape on campus. Maybe another 50 or more men for striking their s/o during a domestic squabble. 

I used to to do a program at the YWCA and the Jewish Community Center for women and how they can protect themself. Contained in the Power Point presentation, we advised women that either liked to frequent bars, lived alone or were in an abusive relationship to carry a small handbag size weapon like a canister of mace or pepper spray (both are the same thing), a tactical pen or a small handgun. If you go with the latter, make sure that you also carry a “right to carry” permit. 

In most cases, women need to immediately disable their attacker and have time to escape. Escape is a women’s best bet. Trying to overpower a man is almost useless. If the women has no self-defense training, the man will either punch the woman in the face to stun her before he puts his hands around their throat. 

For some reason, men like to apply enough pressure to the throat to have their victim pass out. That may go on a few times. He is seeking control and also to send his victim a message that he is in charge. 

One last thing, if you are in an abusive relationship and are making plans to leave, keep it a secret and when you do leave, DO NOT warn your partner. The most dangerous times in a relationship is when one of the partners is in the process of leaving, using this applies to the female. Tell no one, not even mom or dad.

Women—-Don’t become a victim. Always have situational awareness and seek escape when uncomfortable with your situation. And, like I wrote earlier, never get in the car.


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## applecruncher (Apr 26, 2019)

When I was younger (30-40ish) I had a job that required overnight travel.  A very attractive co-worker (also female) sometimes went with me.  After a day's work sometimes we would go to the hotel bar for a drink. Often we were approached by men wanting to buy us a drink or dance if there was a dance floor.

On more than one occasion when we went to freshen up she would tell me she was going to the guy's room and not to wait up for her.  She never knew these guys from a hole in the wall.  Maybe they were there for a convention, maybe they just walked in off the street, maybe they gave a phoney name.  She had no guarantee that there wasn't an accomplice already in the room... she was liquored up and they could have had a plan for some special "fun and games".  mg1:


----------



## chic (Apr 26, 2019)

911 said:


> I probably arrested a dozen college men for rape on campus. Maybe another 50 or more men for striking their s/o during a domestic squabble.
> 
> I used to to do a program at the YWCA and the Jewish Community Center for women and how they can protect themself. Contained in the Power Point presentation, we advised women that either liked to frequent bars, lived alone or were in an abusive relationship to carry a small handbag size weapon like a canister of mace or pepper spray (both are the same thing), a tactical pen or a small handgun. If you go with the latter, make sure that you also carry a “right to carry” permit.
> 
> ...



Great advice 911. I'd add never being alone in dangerous places and look like you're in charge of your life and yourself. Like you have a purpose. Predators look for easy targets. Vulnerabilities. Don't walk if you can drive, especially at night and here's an oldie - don't talk to strangers. If a guy does try to hurt you hit him in the solar plexus, instep, nose and groin. Fast. Marshal arts can help if you know any, but try to just avoid places and situations where an attack might be more likely. My cousin was a homicide detective for over thirty years and his advice to me has been invaluable. I agree with the pepper spray, but it's not always easy to get it and is illegal in many places. I'd favor a Taser, but likewise - same problem.


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## treeguy64 (Apr 26, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> Raising our sons to respect women is key.



Raising women to respect themselves, including making them aware of the absolute fact that if they dress like prostitutes, they may be treated like prostitutes, is also key, along with raising sons who know to leave women who dress trashy, alone.


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## Keesha (Apr 26, 2019)

P





treeguy64 said:


> Raising women to respect themselves, including making them aware of the absolute fact that if they dress like prostitutes, they may be treated like prostitutes, is also key, along with raising sons who know to leave women who dress trashy, alone.


Treeguy, it’s a proven fact that rape isn’t about sex. Women 70 & 80 years old get raped. They aren’t dressed like prostitutes. 
It’s attitudes like yours that prevent most women from reporting rapes because stripping  the victims character is the first thing that’s done in a court of law. 

The message is that you must have asked for it one way or another.


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## applecruncher (Apr 26, 2019)

^^
Agree.  How a woman dresses is irrelevant  Even if she stands in front of a man naked does not mean he has the right to rape her. Dressing sexy is NOT an invitation to be raped.

Rape is about power, not sex.


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## treeguy64 (Apr 26, 2019)

Hold the hell on, here! I NEVER posted anything saying a woman deserves to be raped, or that rape is about sex. Those who are implying that I did, either can't understand the gist of my post, or are simply jumping on the same old attack strategy, when it comes to chastising any guy who suggests that women need to dress in ways that show respect for themselves! The same goes for guys.


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## Sassycakes (Apr 26, 2019)

911 said:


> I probably arrested a dozen college men for rape on campus. Maybe another 50 or more men for striking their s/o during a domestic squabble.
> 
> I used to to do a program at the YWCA and the Jewish Community Center for women and how they can protect themself. Contained in the Power Point presentation, we advised women that either liked to frequent bars, lived alone or were in an abusive relationship to carry a small handbag size weapon like a canister of mace or pepper spray (both are the same thing), a tactical pen or a small handgun. If you go with the latter, make sure that you also carry a “right to carry” permit.
> 
> ...



Very Helpful information 911,and I am going to pass it on to my daughter. :thumbsup1:


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## Keesha (Apr 26, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> Raising women to respect themselves, including making them aware of the absolute fact that if they dress like prostitutes, they may be treated like prostitutes, is also key, along with raising sons who know to leave women who dress trashy, alone.





treeguy64 said:


> Hold the hell on, here! I NEVER posted anything saying a woman deserves to be raped, or that rape is about sex. Those who are implying that I did, either can't understand the gist of my post, or are simply jumping on the same old attack strategy, when it comes to chastising any guy who suggests that women need to dress in ways that show respect for themselves! The same goes for guys.


No you didn’t come directly out and say that. You just strongly suggested it.


----------



## win231 (Apr 26, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> When I was younger (30-40ish) I had a job that required overnight travel.  A very attractive co-worker (also female) sometimes went with me.  After a day's work sometimes we would go to the hotel bar for a drink. Often we were approached by men wanting to buy us a drink or dance if there was a dance floor.
> 
> On more than one occasion when we went to freshen up she would tell me she was going to the guy's room and not to wait up for her.  She never knew these guys from a hole in the wall.  Maybe they were there for a convention, maybe they just walked in off the street, maybe they gave a phoney name.  She had no guarantee that there wasn't an accomplice already in the room... she was liquored up and they could have had a plan for some special "fun and games".  mg1:



Exactly the type of airheads that end up on "Crime Stories."


----------



## treeguy64 (Apr 26, 2019)

Keesha said:


> No you didn’t come directly out and say that. You just strongly suggested it.



You refuse to understand what I wrote. You are VERY wrong, in your assertion, above.  I will simplify what I wrote, previously:

If a woman dresses like a prostitute, she may be treated like a prostitute. A prostitute is not raped, when business is conducted in the preferred fashion, fantasy stuff notwithstanding.  A prostitute attracts the attention of men by dressing in a provocative way. Men then approach her to transact business. If a woman dresses in a provocative manner, the odds are good that men will assume she is looking for sex, either on a for-hire basis, or not. There is no rape involved, here, whatsoever. It's a business deal, if that is what's desired. 

No, means no. If a woman does not want to have sex with someone, and that someone does not relent, then rape occurs, if sex occurs. THAT is never justifiable. 

Again, everyone, male and female, should not be so dense, or so self-involved, as to think that dressing in a provocative manner will not draw the attentions of those who have sex on their mind, as a result of seeing that provocatively dressed person. 

If you do not live in a larger city, or a campus town, then the odds are good that you have no idea how younger women are dressing. When I think I've seen it all, I find I haven't. 

Remember, I'm no prude. For fifteen years, I was a tattooist and body piercer. I regularly had college co-eds come into my shop and, within ten minutes, I was piercing their nipples, clit hoods, etc. I dealt respectfully with all clients. Had I not, I would not have had one of the most popular shops in town. 

My point, here, is that it takes a lot to have me get disgusted with the manner in which some people dress, because I've dealt with so many "out there" folks. If I say that a person is dressed in a provocative manner, and will draw the attention of others, you can take it to the bank!

The OP asked how women could protect themselves. I stated that not dressing provocatively was one way to not draw attention to themselves.  I am correct, so I will stand by my assertion.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Apr 26, 2019)

SeaBreeze said:


> I think it's really hard to give particular advice on things like this, we have to act when the moment presents itself and go with our gut feelings for survival.  If it's them or me and I have any choice in the matter, it will be them.





Knight said:


> As a thread with no specifics I think this part of your response makes the most sense.



Knight, I really wasn't thinking about specifics in this particular thread, I just meant it's hard to give specific advice unless you know the place and moment of an attack.  Like if you're in the city and are grabbed into an alley at night, or on a lonely path in a park, or in the middle of a parking lot in the suburbs, or on an isolated trail in the back woods.

  You may consider where you are, if there's anyone around nearby, and assess your potential attacker.  If he's a smaller slighter man with no weapon, or a big man with a gun or switchblade, etc.  You'd just have to follow your instincts in the way to react in any particular situation.  You may start fighting him off right away, or you may use your smarts to influence the way things go in the encounter by staying calm as possible and look for the perfect chance to make your move. 

 Someone suggested you act like you're enjoying it if it is a rape, I don't agree with that at all.  But you could show you're scared or act indifferently until it's an ideal time to escape or fight back.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 26, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> No, means no. If a woman does not want to have sex with someone, and that someone does not relent, then rape occurs, if sex occurs. THAT is never justifiable.
> 
> Again, everyone, male and female, should not be so dense, or so self-involved, as to think that dressing in a provocative manner will not draw the attentions of those who have sex on their mind, as a result of seeing that provocatively dressed person.
> 
> The OP asked how women could protect themselves. I stated that not dressing provocatively was one way to not draw attention to themselves.  I am correct, so I will stand by my assertion.



I agree with you that 'no means no' and regardless of the way a woman is dressed, if the man doesn't stop right there, then it is rape and _never _justifiable.  Of course, if a woman is dressed in a way that she's letting it all hang out, she will draw the attentions of those who have sex on their mind, that's a no-brainer IMO.


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## Keesha (Apr 26, 2019)

TREEGUY,

 Saying that women make themselves more vulnerable to rape by dressing provocatively is a myth. 


It’s used as justification or an excuse for ****** violence. In reality women from all backgrounds, classes, race, and age get raped and how they act, what they wear and how they look has no impact on this. Zero! 
Children get raped as well as grandmothers. 
Rape is an act of violence, not sex.


In fact there are all kinds of myths about rape:


If you didn’t fight back then it’s not rape


Women often say no when they mean yes


Most men who rape are mentally ill


Men who rape are sexually frustrated


Most rapes happens when people are taking drugs and alcohol 


Women make up stories to coverup embarrassment about consensual sex


Only men rape 

And lastly, a helpful suggestion made by many is women should always stay off the street late at night as this is the time they are most likely to get raped. Wrong again. Very few rapes are committed from women dressed provocatively walking down the street late at night. You are all watching too many movies. Over 90% of rapes are committed by people the victim knows. 


Rape is a way of humiliating and exerting power over someone. It’s not about sex. 
****** violence is not about lust or uncontrollable desire or having had too many drinks. It’s about the need to exert power over another and from a society that promotes inequalities which leads to abuse of women & children. 


What a women is wearing has nothing to do with it. Nobody asks to be raped or sexually assaulted. The blame is 100% on the abuser. 


Men rape for power not desire


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## win231 (Apr 26, 2019)

Keesha said:


> TREEGUY,
> 
> Saying that women make themselves more vulnerable to rape by dressing provocatively is a myth.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but #2 & #6 are not myths.  They occur frequently.  I've witnessed both, especially women making up stories - more to avoid feeling sleazy & saving face after sleeping with someone they later decide they shouldn't have.  Turning it into a rape makes it "not their fault."


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## treeguy64 (Apr 26, 2019)

Keesha said:


> TREEGUY,
> 
> Saying that women make themselves more vulnerable to rape by dressing provocatively is a myth.
> 
> ...



KEESHA

I am sincerely sorry that you cannot understand what I posted about. Nowhere did I make any of my posts about rape. That you're fixated on it speaks volumes, and you have my sympathy, with all due respect. I will not continue posting in this thread. I wish you the best.


----------



## 911 (Apr 27, 2019)

chic said:


> Great advice 911. I'd add never being alone in dangerous places and look like you're in charge of your life and yourself. Like you have a purpose. Predators look for easy targets. Vulnerabilities. Don't walk if you can drive, especially at night and here's an oldie - don't talk to strangers. If a guy does try to hurt you hit him in the solar plexus, instep, nose and groin. Fast. Marshal arts can help if you know any, but try to just avoid places and situations where an attack might be more likely. My cousin was a homicide detective for over thirty years and his advice to me has been invaluable. I agree with the pepper spray, but it's not always easy to get it and is illegal in many places. I'd favor a Taser, but likewise - same problem.



Just one correction; The last that I knew, carrying pepper spray was legal in all 50 states. What's not legal is that some states only allow up to a certain size canister and/or type of spray. Check with your state. About 40 states allow the carrying of stun guns and Tasers. I have been hit with a Taser in training. There is no doubt in my mind that Tasers are very effective. I carried one on my service belt and would rather use a Taser before my gun, if the situation allowed.


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## Keesha (Apr 27, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> KEESHA
> 
> I am sincerely sorry that you cannot understand what I posted about. Nowhere did I make any of my posts about rape. That you're fixated on it speaks volumes, and you have my sympathy, with all due respect. I will not continue posting in this thread. I wish you the best.



Its in a thread about women protecting themselves. What do you think they are protecting themselves from?
Its not from being cursed and yelled at.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/qz.com/...o-thirds-of-rape-cases-are-never-cleared/amp/


http://www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/ending-violence-against-women/facts-and-figures

Yes I probably took your post out of context which I seem to be doing a lot of lately and isn’t fair for anyone here. 
In fact , I’m causing more turmoil with my posts than anything else which DOES speak volumes even when I’m trying to help. 
Message received loud & clear.


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## Keesha (Apr 27, 2019)

win231 said:


> Sorry, but #'s 2 & 6 are not myths.  They occur frequently.  I've witnessed both more than once.





win231 said:


> Sorry, but #2 & #6 are not myths.  They occur frequently.  I've witnessed both, especially women making up stories - more to avoid feeling sleazy & saving face after sleeping with someone they later decide they shouldn't have.  Turning it into a rape makes it "not their fault."


If there are women doing this then they should be ashamed of themselves. Rape is a serious offence and saying it happened when it didn’t hurts everyone and is a slab in the face to all who have really experienced it. I can’t imagine anyone lying about such a sadistic , despicable act. 

As a woman of course I know that the way a woman presents herself to the world says a lot about the type of women she is. Dressing provocatively certainly sends out mixed messages and should be discouraged but it’s still no reason to get raped. 

I’ve no doubt that women who drink and act disrespectful towards themselves are more susceptible to acts of ****** violence but women of all races, ages and cultures are raped. Most of them aren’t dressed like prostitutes and unfortunately the number one reason women don’t report rape is because they don’t want to go through this barbaric ritual of being shamed in court or by society but unfortunately it happens all the time. It is a horrible stigma attached to a hideous crime.


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## 911 (Apr 27, 2019)

This post may go a bit off course, but it kind of ties in with tree guy and keesha’s posts. We all know about Gary Ridgway. Gary confessed to killing 71 women. 

Gary said he chose his victims if they appeared to be a prostitute, addict or homeless. He was considered a ****** deviant that prowled the streets looking for his victims. Those poor, unfortunate women had no defense mechanisms in their possession. They never trusted their instincts, even when there were warnings out on the streets of Seattle and other burbs to let the women know to be hyper-vigilante when going with someone for money, drugs or as a pick-up. 

How they were dressed was not an issue. He just wanted sex and then the “pleasure” of killing them. There have been other serial killers that were like Ridgway as ****** predators. Charles Ng and Leonard Lake come to mind.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 27, 2019)

Back to self defense for women.  This video has a few tips that women can use, of course not all of us can do all the moves shown in the video, but even small takes of tips can be useful.  I was taught a couple of these many years ago, but not the exact variation.  Since I can't run as fast as I used to, I'd prefer to harm the attacker to the point where he is no longer as strong of a threat against me.

For example, in their move #1, I would take advantage of getting him in that position and kick the back of his elbow, breaking it.  Since our wrists and punches are not as strong and effective as a man's, a good move is to use the palm of your hand, and quickly use it to 'punch' upward from his nostril area on the nose.  Whatever move you use, be serious about it, it may be a matter of life and death for you.

When driving your thumbs into his eyes, first make sure your fingers are tight together, and your hands are as stiff as possible.  Use his head as a guide for your hands, move your fingers alongside his head, while shoving your thumbs as far as they can go into his eyes, do any move quickly.  I know, sounds gross, but when the deed is done he will be unable to see and he will be in a lot of pain, giving you a chance to call for help or at least get away.

If you happen to be lying on the ground to the side of him for a minute, take advantage by hooking his calf with the instep of the foot lowest to the ground, while kicking the side of his knee with the heel of your top foot.  If you do it right and hard enough, it can break his knee, if you can't get it to break, it will at least be injured and he'll be in pain.  Take advantage of whatever position he gets into which makes him vulnerable for strikes to areas like eyes, nose, groin, elbows and knees.

Use whatever is around for a weapon, like a stick (Gary O' mentioned this), rocks, etc.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 27, 2019)

Getting out of chock holds seem a bit harder and more involved, but I think if you get any tips of value from videos like this, it's worth watching.  Also, if you have someone at home you can practice the moves on, it's even better to physically do the move.


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## win231 (Apr 27, 2019)

Keesha said:


> If there are women doing this then they should be ashamed of themselves. Rape is a serious offence and saying it happened when it didn’t hurts everyone and is a slab in the face to all who have really experienced it. I can’t imagine anyone lying about such a sadistic , despicable act.
> 
> As a woman of course I know that the way a woman presents herself to the world says a lot about the type of women she is. Dressing provocatively certainly sends out mixed messages and should be discouraged but it’s still no reason to get raped.
> 
> I’ve no doubt that women who drink and act disrespectful towards themselves are more susceptible to acts of ****** violence but women of all races, ages and cultures are raped. Most of them aren’t dressed like prostitutes and unfortunately the number one reason women don’t report rape is because they don’t want to go through this barbaric ritual of being shamed in court or by society but unfortunately it happens all the time. It is a horrible stigma attached to a hideous crime.




One thing I'll never understand:  When women falsely accuse a man of rape, then later admit they lied, in some cases, men have spent years in prison.  _And women who do this are NEVER prosecuted._  25 years ago, I was having dinner with a group of friends.  One woman drank too much (I found out later, she was an alcoholic & always drank too much & had several DUI's.)  She drove to the restaurant.  Since I was hit by a drunk driver in the past (who killed a passenger in his car) I knew what could happen if she drove home, I said I would drive her.  On the way to her house, she started accusing me of "Trying something with her."  (I wouldn't if she was the last woman on earth...I hate drunks).  She got louder & louder & more & more nutty & by the time I got to her house, she was screaming hysterically & she also tore her blouse.  It was 2:00am & people started waking up & coming out of their apartments.  She lived with her parents, who (of course) were quite familiar with her drinking.  Her parents rushed out of the apartment, thanked me & dragged her indoors.  I learned my lesson about helping people; almost the hard way.

If she (or someone else) had called the police, I would have been arrested for ****** assault - her torn blouse, bruises she gave herself.  I might have been convicted.  I don't even want to think of what I would do to her if that happened.


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## Keesha (Apr 27, 2019)

911 said:


> How they were dressed was not an issue. He just wanted sex and then the “pleasure” of killing them.



Thank you for clarifying this. It’s good to get feedback from a professional who deals with this type of thing on a regular bases. 
I don’t think the topic of ‘rape’ is off topic on a thread about women protecting themselves.


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## Keesha (Apr 27, 2019)

win231 said:


> One thing I'll never understand:  When women falsely accuse a man of rape, then later admit they lied, in some cases, men have spent years in prison.  _And women who do this are NEVER prosecuted._  25 years ago, I was having dinner with a group of friends.  One woman drank too much (I found out later, she was an alcoholic & always drank too much & had several DUI's.)  She drove to the restaurant.  Since I was hit by a drunk driver in the past (who killed a passenger in his car) I knew what could happen if she drove home, I said I would drive her.  On the way to her house, she started accusing me of "Trying something with her."  (I wouldn't if she was the last woman on earth...I hate drunks).  She got louder & louder & more & more nutty & by the time I got to her house, she was screaming hysterically & she also tore her blouse.  It was 2:00am & people started waking up & coming out of their apartments.  She lived with her parents, who (of course) were quite familiar with her drinking.  Her parents rushed out of the apartment, thanked me & dragged her indoors.  I learned my lesson about helping people; almost the hard way.
> 
> If she (or someone else) had called the police, I would have been arrested for ****** assault - her torn blouse, bruises she gave herself.  I might have been convicted.  I don't even want to think of what I would do to her if that happened.


Yes. Being a female who would never do such a thing, my perspective doesn’t cover all angles so apologize for not seeing the other side of things


----------



## RadishRose (Apr 27, 2019)

> I don’t think the topic of ‘rape’ is off topic on a thread about women protecting themselves.



I agree, Keesha. 

Also, I don't see what clothing or manner of dress has to do with women needing to protect themselves.


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## Sunny (Apr 27, 2019)

Win, what a dramatic account of a horrifying experience. Fortunately, you weren't arrested. If you had been, I wonder if you would have done time in prison in the absence of any DNA evidence against you. It would have been your word against hers, and she had a history of drunken behavior. Although, race might factor in; our country has a sad history of innocent black men being arrested in similar circumstances.

In any case, not a good experience for you no matter what the outcome was, and you were being a good samaritan.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 27, 2019)

911 said:


> Just one correction; The last that I knew, carrying pepper spray was legal in all 50 states. What's not legal is that some states only allow up to a certain size canister and/or type of spray. Check with your state. About 40 states allow the carrying of stun guns and Tasers. I have been hit with a Taser in training. There is no doubt in my mind that Tasers are very effective. I carried one on my service belt and would rather use a Taser before my gun, if the situation allowed.


I carry pepper spray but am not sure how long it is good for.  Last time I had it so long I bought a new one just in case the old one expired or ran "out of gas."  We have to have a CCW permit in Ohio to carry a taser.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 27, 2019)

Trade said:


> Fight dirty. Bite, kick, claw and go for the vulnerable spots. Kick or punch him in the balls if you can, but even better go for the eyes. Try to bury your finger into one or both of his eye sockets all the way to the third knuckle. And if you manage to get the upper hand don't let up. Do society a favor and finish him off. And when the cops question you keep repeating the magic words "I feared for my life" every chance you get.
> 
> Now that I think of it, this advice goes for dudes too.


Yes, definitely~I have learned those things in self defense classes, too.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 27, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> If…you’re caught unawares, anything with a pointed end, even a Bic pen, can be a formidable weapon.
> 
> Stab at any part of the person nearest you, arm/hand whatever, but aim for the face if and when you have that chance.
> Don't quit stabbing.
> ...


Yes.



AZ Jim said:


> My Dad owned a bar years ago.  One night the conversations turned to rape.  Harvey a regular at the tavern said "I've told Marge if ever she is being raped rather than being hurt she should lie there and pretend she is enjoying it".  She said (in response),  "that will be easy, I've done it ever since we were married!"


Good sense of humor she had~



SeaBreeze said:


> Good advice Gary, the face is always good, especially the eyes.  But as I mentioned before, try not to project your intended moves beforehand, giving him an chance to block or stop them.  Catch him off-guard if possible.


yes.



Sunny said:


> Uptosnuff, except that they could grab the cell phone and run off with it. Better than being physically assaulted, I guess.
> 
> Squatting Dog, no, that is a terrible idea, and a large part of what is wrong with this country right now. Much more likely to create problems than to prevent them.


I respectfully disagree.  I know many women now who carry fire arms.  Predators do too, so it's really necessary imho.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 27, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> If…you’re caught unawares, anything with a pointed end, even a Bic pen, can be a formidable weapon.
> 
> Stab at any part of the person nearest you, arm/hand whatever, but aim for the face if and when you have that chance.
> Don't quit stabbing.
> ...





AZ Jim said:


> My Dad owned a bar years ago.  One night the conversations turned to rape.  Harvey a regular at the tavern said "I've told Marge if ever she is being raped rather than being hurt she should lie there and pretend she is enjoying it".  She said (in response),  "that will be easy, I've done it ever since we were married!"





SeaBreeze said:


> Good advice Gary, the face is always good, especially the eyes.  But as I mentioned before, try not to project your intended moves beforehand, giving him an chance to block or stop them.  Catch him off-guard if possible.





Butterfly said:


> Unfortunately, a woman can "manage to be in the position to be raped" by just walking down the street minding her own business.  It's a big fat myth that most women who are raped are either dressed very provocatively or somehow "asking for it."  Rape victims are all ages, sizes, degrees of physical attractiveness, and dressed in all manner of ways.  It is NEVER the woman's fault, IMHO.  We had a serial rapist here a few years ago who went around raping women in their 70s and 80s.


I hear you~


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## Ruthanne (Apr 27, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> If…you’re caught unawares, anything with a pointed end, even a Bic pen, can be a formidable weapon.
> 
> Stab at any part of the person nearest you, arm/hand whatever, but aim for the face if and when you have that chance.
> Don't quit stabbing.
> ...





AZ Jim said:


> My Dad owned a bar years ago.  One night the conversations turned to rape.  Harvey a regular at the tavern said "I've told Marge if ever she is being raped rather than being hurt she should lie there and pretend she is enjoying it".  She said (in response),  "that will be easy, I've done it ever since we were married!"





SeaBreeze said:


> Good advice Gary, the face is always good, especially the eyes.  But as I mentioned before, try not to project your intended moves beforehand, giving him an chance to block or stop them.  Catch him off-guard if possible.





911 said:


> This post may go a bit off course, but it kind of ties in with tree guy and keesha’s posts. We all know about Gary Ridgway. Gary confessed to killing 71 women.
> 
> Gary said he chose his victims if they appeared to be a prostitute, addict or homeless. He was considered a ****** deviant that prowled the streets looking for his victims. Those poor, unfortunate women had no defense mechanisms in their possession. They never trusted their instincts, even when there were warnings out on the streets of Seattle and other burbs to let the women know to be hyper-vigilante when going with someone for money, drugs or as a pick-up.
> 
> How they were dressed was not an issue. He just wanted sex and then the “pleasure” of killing them. There have been other serial killers that were like Ridgway as ****** predators. Charles Ng and Leonard Lake come to mind.


I watch a lot of ID Channel and have seen these cases and many others, made me even more aware of the dangers in our society.  I was aware at a younger age, too, but became aware again watching these.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 27, 2019)

911 said:


> I probably arrested a dozen college men for rape on campus. Maybe another 50 or more men for striking their s/o during a domestic squabble.
> 
> I used to to do a program at the YWCA and the Jewish Community Center for women and how they can protect themself. Contained in the Power Point presentation, we advised women that either liked to frequent bars, lived alone or were in an abusive relationship to carry a small handbag size weapon like a canister of mace or pepper spray (both are the same thing), a tactical pen or a small handgun. If you go with the latter, make sure that you also carry a “right to carry” permit.
> 
> ...


Thank you and I agree wholeheartedly.:notfair::thankyou:


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## Butterfly (Apr 27, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> *I respectfully disagree.  I know many women now who carry fire arms.  Predators do too, so it's really necessary imho.*



Ruthanne, if I worked a night shift or for some other reason had to be out at night, I'd get a CC permit and carry, too.  I know several nurses who work the shift that gets off at midnight who carry.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 28, 2019)

Butterfly said:


> Ruthanne, if I worked a night shift or for some other reason had to be out at night, I'd get a CC permit and carry, too.  I know several nurses who work the shift that gets off at midnight who carry.


Wise women they are.  It's a necessity now a days and it has been for a long time, too, since these crimes have been happening forever it seems.


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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 28, 2019)

I'm not sure that a woman "packing heat" is a great idea. I stress "woman" as a person, who doesn't have a lot of experience shooting guns, as are most males today. Having a gun might make her feel better, but I'm not sure her inexperience may work against her. Years ago, in NYC, I was walking home. There was a woman about half a block in front of me. She kept looking back at me. It was obvious that she was terrified of me. I was just walking along,  I would have never noticed her, except if she wasn't always looking back at me. I'm gay. Then to get away from me, she crossed the street. Unfortunately, that was right in front of my building, so I had to cross the street, too. She started to run. I thought of yelling to her that I wouldn't hurt her, but I figured that might scare her even more. I wished that I could have warned her that by appearing so weak and distraught, she was making herself a target. Nobody deserves that. But, you don't have to advertise how scared you are. And a gun in her hands really is a scary idea-hell, it might have been  bad for me.


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## win231 (Apr 28, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I'm not sure that a woman "packing heat" is a great idea. I stress "woman" as a person, who doesn't have a lot of experience shooting guns, as are most males today. Having a gun might make her feel better, but I'm not sure her inexperience may work against her. Years ago, in NYC, I was walking home. There was a woman about half a block in front of me. She kept looking back at me. It was obvious that she was terrified of me. I was just walking along,  I would have never noticed her, except if she wasn't always looking back at me. I'm gay. Then to get away from me, she crossed the street. Unfortunately, that was right in front of my building, so I had to cross the street, too. She started to run. I thought of yelling to her that I wouldn't hurt her, but I figured that might scare her even more. I wished that I could have warned her that by appearing so weak and distraught, she was making herself a target. Nobody deserves that. But, you don't have to advertise how scared you are. And a gun in her hands really is a scary idea-hell, it might have been  bad for me.



Of course, (as with any potentially-lethal object like a car,) training & practice is important.  As a shooting instructor & consultant, I have trained many women who were intimidated by firearms.  They were all sufficiently competent to defend themselves & were safe in a short time.  Personally, I have never received any professional instruction.  I simply read the instruction manual.  Safe gun handling is a matter of common sense; not "special" expertise or extraordinary ability.


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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 28, 2019)

There has been some, who warned about women dressing "provocatively".
Who really believes that a big strong guy just can't keep his dick in his pants when he sees a woman.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 28, 2019)

win231 said:


> Of course, (as with any potentially-lethal object like a car,) training & practice is important.  As a shooting instructor & consultant, I have trained many women who were intimidated by firearms.  They were all sufficiently competent to defend themselves & were safe in a short time.  Personally, I have never received any professional instruction.  I simply read the instruction manual.  Safe gun handling is a matter of common sense; not "special" expertise or extraordinary ability.



Well said Win231!  I never had formal training but I can use a gun if necessary to defend myself, and have the common sense to handle a firearm in a safe manner.  Those who are irresponsible should never even handle a gun or rifle.


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## gamboolman (Apr 28, 2019)

Ms. gamboolgal carries a G-26.

As many others have said, situational awareness, avoiding road rage - just let it go, always lock doors, practicing shooting with her everyday carry pistol, she is currently ssh'd to be taking some self defense class, 

Thank God for them Texas gals....
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/GEcA2W4l.png[/IMG]


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## Butterfly (Apr 28, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I'm not sure that a woman "packing heat" is a great idea. I stress "woman" as a person, who doesn't have a lot of experience shooting guns, as are most males today. Having a gun might make her feel better, but I'm not sure her inexperience may work against her. Years ago, in NYC, I was walking home. There was a woman about half a block in front of me. She kept looking back at me. It was obvious that she was terrified of me. I was just walking along,  I would have never noticed her, except if she wasn't always looking back at me. I'm gay. Then to get away from me, she crossed the street. Unfortunately, that was right in front of my building, so I had to cross the street, too. She started to run. I thought of yelling to her that I wouldn't hurt her, but I figured that might scare her even more. I wished that I could have warned her that by appearing so weak and distraught, she was making herself a target. Nobody deserves that. But, you don't have to advertise how scared you are. And a gun in her hands really is a scary idea-hell, it might have been  bad for me.



A woman with a gun in her hands is no scarier than a man with a gun in his.  There are a lot of women around who are quite competent with a firearm.  

I think if that woman was frightened of you, she did the right thing by trying to get away from you.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 28, 2019)

Butterfly said:


> A woman with a gun in her hands is no scarier than a man with a gun in his.  There are a lot of women around who are quite competent with a firearm.
> 
> I think if that woman was frightened of you, she did the right thing by trying to get away from you.



Exactly.   And I'm quite proficient with firearms.  (Thanks, dad.)


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## Butterfly (Apr 29, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> Exactly.   And* I'm quite proficient with firearms.  (Thanks, dad.)*


*

*Me, too, also thanks to my dad and granddad.


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## Ruthanne (May 2, 2019)

Keesha said:


> This I also understand.
> You ‘will’ feel love again.
> It might just take some time but have patience.
> 
> If you are that fearful I would let a friend , relative, neighbour know where you are when you go out.


I have no one to let know.  I'm not that scared to go out per se but going out with a man again is not something I look forward to.  My recovery has been over a 25 year period but at times the fears resurface.  I feel love from my dog and that is good enough for me. I have had bfs over the years after my hubby died but didn't work out and don't want to try again.  Too much trouble.And thanks for your understanding!


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## Manatee (May 2, 2019)

Neither my wife nor my daughter ever had any interest in firearms.


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## Ruthanne (May 2, 2019)

Manatee said:


> Neither my wife nor my daughter ever had any interest in firearms.


And that's cool, too.


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