# Online Trolls



## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

I came upon this today...because recently, I heard the term Troll.  I thought it was some guy that lived under a bridge, and he'd grab your goodies if you tried to cross.

Evidently, it has another meaning which I found interesting.  I don't know if many of you have heard the term, but during my time on Forums since about '90ish, I believe I've seen some.  Looking for opinions and feedback, and folks experiences with online Trolls??

Here's wiki's definition:

For a Wikipedia essay on the topic, see meta:What is a troll?

 In Internet slang, a *troll* (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 16, 2015)

Oh yes. Know all about trolls!


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## Debby (Mar 16, 2015)

I think that's an accusation that sometimes also gets thrown out there to try and shut down a differing opinion.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Really, were you a moderator by chance.  I love to hear about them AM??


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## AZ Jim (Mar 16, 2015)

I've been on the internet since '96 and I am well aware of trolls as used in cyber-ville!


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Debby said:


> I think that's an accusation that sometimes also gets thrown out there to try and shut down a differing opinion.



I thought they were like a virus, sent in by someone??


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> I've been on the internet since '96 and I am well aware of trolls as used in cyber-ville!



So is the definition correct, I mean I don't just trust Wiki right off the bat?


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Debby said:


> I think that's an accusation that sometimes also gets thrown out there to try and shut down a differing opinion.



Yeah, I could see someone doing that as well.  It would be hard to determine the difference I think?


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## Ameriscot (Mar 16, 2015)

I think my first forum was 97. I have been a moderator on an expat forum but no trolls there. Just on other forums.


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## Debby (Mar 16, 2015)

Not sure what you mean Denise.  

What I've seen on Youtube for example, there's a discussion and most people are supportive in the comments and then someone comes along and says the opposite and the next remark is something like, 'you're just a troll so get lost'.  I've seen that even when the opposing opinion is perfectly legitimate.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 16, 2015)

Debby said:


> I think that's an accusation that sometimes also gets thrown out there to try and shut down a differing opinion.



Sometimes but not usually.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Debby said:


> Not sure what you mean Denise.
> 
> What I've seen on Youtube for example, there's a discussion and most people are supportive in the comments and then someone comes along and says the opposite and the next remark is something like, 'you're just a troll so get lost'.  I've seen that even when the opposing opinion is perfectly legitimate.



Yes, those sorts of terms do get used wrongly.  I do believe there are actual Trolls though, in forums.  I edited and noted that it would be hard in some cases to tell the difference.  I'd hate to be a mod. and have to make that decision.


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## DoItMyself (Mar 16, 2015)

It depends-sometimes it's used correctly and other times it's not.

If someone posts something that is intentionally meant to jab at someone, then it's considered trolling (posting strictly to get an inflamed response from someone).  However a simple difference of opinion is not trolling.  Sometimes the difference can be fuzzy, other times it's clear.


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## applecruncher (Mar 16, 2015)

Yeah, I'm familiar with the term.  First encountered trolls in the late 90s in the old AOL chatrooms.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Sometimes but not usually.



Ok, as a mod. you saw a lot of posts, so you would know if someone is habitually doing the troll thing.  That's what it would take, constant monitoring because they could just be having a bad day.  But if they were having a bad year you might start to think something is rotten in Denmark


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> Yeah, I'm familiar with the term.  First encountered trolls in the late 90s in the old AOL chatrooms.



Yes, I remember those well.  Remember the high cost of being on AOL.  I remember one bill was like 300 bucks, ahhhhhhh!!  Did the trolls you came across resemble the wiki definition AC? denise


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

DoItMyself said:


> It depends-sometimes it's used correctly and other times it's not.
> 
> If someone posts something that is intentionally meant to jab at someone, then it's considered trolling (posting strictly to get an inflamed response from someone).  However a simple difference of opinion is not trolling.  Sometimes the difference can be fuzzy, other times it's clear.



I see it this way as well DoIt, determining whether or not we have a virus, or it's just a temporary "reboot" and it's fixed is not always easy denise


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## Ameriscot (Mar 16, 2015)

Sometimes you can tell just by how outrageous the post is. They are obviously trying to provoke and start a fight.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Ok, that sounds like the wiki definition might be right on, thanks AM denise


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Omygosh, this really was good, and this was so good for me to read, and hope it helps someone else if/when they come in contact with a Troll

*Do not "feed" the trolls.*  We encourage community members to report abuse by trolls. But we also  ask that you not engage with trolls in the comment threads. Reacting to  their provocations is exactly what they want. If we see you feeding a  troll, we will remove both the troll's comments and your responses.


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## Warrigal (Mar 16, 2015)

My first experience of a forum involved younger women and occasionally someone would come online with a story of great tragedy in their lives, asking for advice, but for every sympathetic response the situation would develop more drama. The poster seemed to enjoy being the centre of attention and eventually someone would call "troll" because of past experiences. That was the first time I had heard the term.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

I would say she wasn't a troll, at least not buy the Wiki definition.  I know some folks have no one to talk to, so when they find "listeners" they just burst out with it all.  Then we have to know how to help them, not enable them, like "ah quit your blubberin, and go blow your shnoz" right?layful:


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## Warrigal (Mar 16, 2015)

The young women were nowhere near as gentle as we older folk. They were also much more bawdy.
I learnt a lot but had trouble bringing my eyebrows down out of my hairline. :lofl:


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## Davey Jones (Mar 16, 2015)

All I know about a troll is to To fish by dragging bait behind a moving motor-boat.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

I hear'ya Davey!  I think dynamite works really well, on the fish, not the Trolls, LOL!


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## AZ Jim (Mar 16, 2015)

nwlady said:


> I hear'ya Davey!  I think dynamite works really well, on the fish, not the Trolls, LOL!



It is also a great way to go to jail.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> The young women were nowhere near as gentle as we older folk. They ware also much more bawdy.
> I learnt a lot but had trouble bringing my eyebrows down out of my hairline. :lofl:



Geesh, I wish something would shock me, I'm trying to think of the last time I was shocked  Oh yeah, last Summer when the UFO landed in my backyard.  I was shocked at first, then I just invited them in for some Kibbles & Bits


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> It is also a great way to go to jail.



Yes, fast-track to the "big house".  Surely you knew I was kidding??


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## Ameriscot (Mar 16, 2015)

Trolls are most commonly found in political discussions.  I was on a forum with many thousands of users and the political discussions got really hot.  A perfect place for someone whose only goal is to stir up trouble and get people really angry.  Topics on religion are also attractive places for trolls.


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## jujube (Mar 16, 2015)

Almost all of the forums I've been on have had, at least, "occasional" trolls.....the ones that show up for a little while, get everything all stirred up and move on.  Trolls seldom stick around for long.  People start ignoring them and they have to move onto to new waters. 

Then there are the "drama llamas", who aren't exactly trolls but as someone mentioned earlier start out with tales of woe and it gets better and better.  They just love being the center of attention and getting lots of sympathy.  They'll usually stomp off in a huff when people start questioning their problems or telling them they are bringing their problems on themselves. 

And last but not least, there are the "sock puppets".  Sock puppets are when a poster has one or more "other" screen names, which he/she uses to agree with himself, praise himself, or help attack other posters.  It's always fun when a sock puppet gets outed, usually when the poster forgets he's posting under the sock puppet screen name instead of his usual name and gives himself away.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm sure you are right AM, and yes on the religious forums as well.  I've gone in a few of those along the way, and admit to being pretty surprised.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

jujube said:


> Almost all of the forums I've been on have had, at least, "occasional" trolls.....the ones that show up for a little while, get everything all stirred up and move on.  Trolls seldom stick around for long.  People start ignoring them and they have to move onto to new waters.
> 
> Then there are the "drama llamas", who aren't exactly trolls but as someone mentioned earlier start out with tales of woe and it gets better and better.  They just love being the center of attention and getting lots of sympathy.  They'll usually stomp off in a huff when people start questioning their problems or telling them they are bringing their problems on themselves.
> 
> And last but not least, there are the "sock puppets".  Sock puppets are when a poster has one or more "other" screen names, which he/she uses to agree with himself, praise himself, or help attack other posters.  It's always fun when a sock puppet gets outed, usually when the poster forgets he's posting under the sock puppet screen name instead of his usual name and gives himself away.



LOL, oh man, good thing I didn't have anything in mouth reading this one, I'd have blown everywhere!!  A sock-puppet, first I have heard of one of those, hilarious, omg!  I think you are right on about the trolls.  If they are ignored, they would not have any fun, so it's just logical they would slither off to some other unsuspecting group!! LOL!!

We should start a thread and ask folks what they would say to their own posts, and about themselves, hilarious  Oh baby Oh baby, you are so smart!!


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## Ameriscot (Mar 16, 2015)

One forum I was on had this Irish kid about 18 and for the time I was on he had 3 different user names as he'd get banned and then join again.  But it was obvious who he was.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> One forum I was on had this Irish kid about 18 and for the time I was on he had 3 different user names as he'd get banned and then join again.  But it was obvious who he was.



I think you could spot someone if you'd seen enough of their posts.  I think for the most part people do share their true colors online, so even if they came back as someone else, they couldn't hide it for long.  Maybe a genius could, or a major con-man/woman


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## applecruncher (Mar 16, 2015)

Yeah, the stomping off in a huff.......... (also called 'flouncing' )

Usually those people post a dramatic “Goodbye Cruel Forum” thread. It gets pathetic, even amusing.  ("Excuse me for living, I thought this was a support board, You people won't have ME to kick around anymore")  But you KNOW they’re still reading long after they’ve “left”. Sometimes members beg them to come back, (playing right into their hands) but I feel if someone’s not enjoying a group anymore, they need to move on. Life is too short and the internet is huge.  Better yet, get away from that computer for awhile.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 16, 2015)

nwlady said:


> I think you could spot someone if you'd seen enough of their posts.  I think for the most part people do share their true colors online, so even if they came back as someone else, they couldn't hide it for long.  Maybe a genius could, or a major con-man/woman



This kid was no genius.  And he loved to bash everything.  All of Europe sucked according to him.  He lived in Northern Ireland, and of course he hated that as well.  He just loved the US.  Anything anyone said he disagreed with.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 16, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> Yeah, the stomping off in a huff..........
> 
> Usually those people post a dramatic “Goodbye Cruel Forum” thread. It's gets pathetic, even amusing.  But you KNOW they’re still reading long after they’ve “left”.  Sometimes members beg them to come back, (playing right into their hands) but I feel if someone’s not enjoying a group anymore, they need to move on.  Life is too short and the internet is huge.



I've seen lots of that.  Yes, just move on.  Lots more reasonable people to chat to.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> Yeah, the stomping off in a huff..........
> 
> Usually those people post a dramatic “Goodbye Cruel Forum” thread. It's gets pathetic, even amusing.  But you KNOW they’re still reading long after they’ve “left”.  Sometimes members beg them to come back, (playing right into their hands) but I feel if someone’s not enjoying a group anymore, they need to move on.  Life is too short and the internet is huge.



I've seen some of that along the way.  I would rather see someone work hard to get along.  There are so many lonely people, and the internet has given many a chance to have some social life.  It's helped me a lot.  I was crippled financially for awhile but my rental had free internet so I got to be around folks at least on line.  I've never seen a forum that had difficult rules.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I've seen lots of that.  Yes, just move on.  Lots more reasonable people to chat to.



True as well, it's like in real life, I mean offline anyway  We don't all fit in every group  It's no sin to move on.  I'd pass on a "drama" filled letter though.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 16, 2015)

nwlady said:


> I've seen some of that along the way.  I would rather see someone work hard to get along.  There are so many lonely people, and the internet has given many a chance to have some social life.  It's helped me a lot.  I was crippled financially for awhile but my rental had free internet so I got to be around folks at least on line.  I've never seen a forum that had difficult rules.



I used to be on one that had a very strict censor for certain words. And it knew them all, American, British, Aussie swear words.  You couldn't even say boob!


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## Warrigal (Mar 16, 2015)

nwlady said:


> I think you could spot someone if you'd seen enough of their posts.  I think for the most part people do share their true colors online, so even if they came back as someone else, they couldn't hide it for long.  Maybe a genius could, or a major con-man/woman



I know that I'd be spotted right away if I tried to disguise myself as someone else.
As Popeye says "I yam wot I yam".


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I used to be on one that had a very strict censor for certain words. And it knew them all, American, British, Aussie swear words.  You couldn't even say boob!



Come to think of it, yes, I think I have seen some strict things about certain words, but I could never belong to a forum where I couldn't say boob, lol  I don't know any Aussie swear words, or British.  I know a new Irish one, or at least a new pronunciation of one since the Irish thread lol!


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## Falcon (Mar 16, 2015)

I've known a few of them on a few forums and chat rooms. That's why I've dwindled them down to this one and one other one.
 But THIS forum is my MAIN one. A couple of trolls here are questionable....like you say; maybe having a bad day or their undies
 are creeping up on them.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 16, 2015)

A troll is not someone whose opinion you don't like, he/she is someone who simply attempts to inflame by making posts or replies deliberately seeking a fight.  Not one one issue a normal poster may be passionate about, but rather ALL his/hers posts.  I was once on a board with a racist troll.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 16, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Come to think of it, yes, I think I have seen some strict things about certain words, but I could never belong to a forum where I couldn't say boob, lol  I don't know any Aussie swear words, or British.  I know a new Irish one, or at least a new pronunciation of one since the Irish thread lol!



Well, one word I like is bollocks, but the censors caught it when I tried to sneak it in by typing bo!!ocks.  As for Irish I believe even feck was blocked!


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

Falcon said:


> I've known a few of them on a few forums and chat rooms. That's why I've dwindled them down to this one and one other one.
> But THIS forum is my MAIN one. A couple of trolls here are questionable....like you say; maybe having a bad day or their undies
> are creeping up on them.



And if the bad day is turning into longer, they probably aren't changing their undies.  Gee Falcon, you always have just the right thing to say, LOL!!


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## Denise1952 (Mar 16, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> A troll is not someone whose opinion you don't like, he/she is someone who simply attempts to inflame by making posts or replies deliberately seeking a fight.  Not one one issue a normal poster may be passionate about, but rather ALL his/hers posts.  I was once on a board with a racist troll.



Yes, this thread has pretty much taught me what a troll is, thanks for your input Jim  And yes, they could attack any "group" of people that are of another race, belief system, political affiliation.


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## Linda (Mar 16, 2015)

Until about a year ago I thought a troll was someone who read on forums but never commented and that sort of rubbed me the wrong way.  If you are going to be on here, for pete's sake, lets hear from you!!   Now that I know what a troll really is, I'll have to stop thinking of them as the name I used to refer to them as.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 17, 2015)

Linda said:


> Until about a year ago I thought a troll was someone who read on forums but never commented and that sort of rubbed me the wrong way.  If you are going to be on here, for pete's sake, lets hear from you!!   Now that I know what a troll really is, I'll have to stop thinking of them as the name I used to refer to them as.



One who reads and doesn't post is a lurker.


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## Ken N Tx (Mar 17, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Oh yes. Know all about trolls!





Debby said:


> I think that's an accusation that sometimes also gets thrown out there to try and shut down a differing opinion.





DoItMyself said:


> It depends-sometimes it's used correctly and other times it's not.
> 
> If someone posts something that is intentionally meant to jab at someone, then it's considered trolling (posting strictly to get an inflamed response from someone).  However a simple difference of opinion is not trolling.  Sometimes the difference can be fuzzy, other times it's clear.





Ameriscot said:


> Sometimes you can tell just by how outrageous the post is. They are obviously trying to provoke and start a fight.



Ditto to all of the above..

Troll....stalker...bully...all the same in my book!!

I have been a Mod/Admin on several Forums, and we would just give them enough rope to hang themselves and then ban. It was not an easy thing to do, so normally a couple of Mods would be involved with the decision to ban.


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## Foxie (Mar 17, 2015)

I know of one dating site that has these types of people. They all just want attention for whatever reasons. I have seen horrible pictures posted of some members degrating to say the least, name calling and attacking just about anyone. Phony profiles bringing on more drama. The best thing is just ignore them. Unfortunately the site says they cannot get involved in problems between members. Very sad. IMO they should be banned from anywhere they post at.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2015)

Absolutely, I figure someone up to that will hang themselves, see ya later tater, off to the doc this a.m. so he can look at my ears.  I wonder if he'll hear the ringing toonthego:


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2015)

Dating sites can be notorious for that sort of thing, forgot about those.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 17, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Sometimes you can tell just by how outrageous the post is. They are obviously trying to provoke and start a fight.



In my experience REAL TROLLS are those that pop into a forum suddenly and start arguments or cause trouble..  Perhaps they are just old forum members with an ax to grind.. or perhaps they are current members using a "sock puppet" to simply agree with them..   I have seen forum members recruit friends from other forums to come in and help them fight a battle or settle a score.. Those are the real trolls.   Not long time members that simply have different opinions.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 17, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> In my experience REAL TROLLS are those that pop into a forum suddenly and start arguments or cause trouble..  Perhaps they are just old forum members with an ax to grind.. or perhaps they are current members using a "sock puppet" to simply agree with them..   I have seen forum members recruit friends from other forums to come in and help them fight a battle or settle a score.. Those are the real trolls.   Not long time members that simply have different opinions.



I have seen some long time members on a very large forum who were always stirring up trouble.  But in general, I think you're right, most are hit and run.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 17, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I have seen some long time members on a very large forum who were always stirring up trouble.  But in general, I think you're right, most are hit and run.



Of course there are people that want to constantly stir up trouble, but I think the tip off to a real troll is when a new member, or a member with very few posts starts a fight, or hones in on another long term member.. Those are the ones with the agenda and generally are there for that reason.  Most people new to a forum don't jump into a fight right off the bat.   They are pretty easy to spot though, and I generally steer clear.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2015)

Well, we could just say "will the real trolls please stand up".  I like what everyone has added, I think the Wiki really summed it up well.  Thanks everyone for your input by the way, and I've learned a lot.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have more input though Gotta run, been to the doc, and now off to grocery shop then maybe a photo shoot out at the estuary denise


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2015)

There might even be "different strokes for different Trolls"


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## QuickSilver (Mar 17, 2015)

nwlady said:


> There might even be "different strokes for different Trolls"



I'm quite sure of that..


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## SifuPhil (Mar 17, 2015)

nwlady said:


> ... then maybe a photo shoot out at the estuary denise



Those are always tough to do in those 7" heels ...


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Those are always tough to do in those 7" heels ...



Yeah, but mine have these cool, little pontoons built on!  You should see me go with that propeller up my..whoops, I mean on my back!!


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## hollydolly (Mar 17, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Of course there are people that want to constantly stir up trouble, but I think the tip off to a real troll is when a new member, or a member with very few posts starts a fight, or hones in on another long term member.. Those are the ones with the agenda and generally are there for that reason.  Most people new to a forum don't jump into a fight right off the bat.   They are pretty easy to spot though, and I generally steer clear.



Yep that's pretty much spot on.. as the moderator on one forum and a long time member of forums generally for 17 or 18 years , I've seen every type of 'troll' there is I think


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## oakapple (Mar 17, 2015)

now, is this a photo shoot, out at the estuary............. OR is it a photo shoot out   (at the estuary)?
Who amongst us can claim they have never been shot by a camera?It can be painful (as my holiday snaps have showed me.)


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2015)

No, it's out at the estuary, LOL!!!!!!!  I can't go today either, so disappointed but have to go back to town for some business junk, lol!!


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## AZ Jim (Mar 17, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> Yep that's pretty much spot on.. as the moderator on one forum and a long time member of forums generally for 17 or 18 years , I've seen every type of 'troll' there is I think



I agree 100% Holly with your affirmation of QS's theorem.  I resent that and I don't like people who use sock puppets as well.


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## oakapple (Mar 17, 2015)

Never heard of the sock puppet thing, it's hilarious.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2015)

It is hilarious.  I liked the one told about people "hiring" people to come in and give them reps. or replies saying how right they are etc.  I can't imagine someone not having something better to do, LOL


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## oakapple (Mar 17, 2015)

nwlady said:


> No, it's out at the estuary, LOL!!!!!!!  I can't go today either, so disappointed but have to go back to town for some business junk, lol!!


Watch out for trolls hiding under the rickety wooden walkway at the estuary Denise!They may jump out and start a furious arguement with you.


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## oakapple (Mar 17, 2015)

I have no need of sock puppets, as I can (and do) agree with myself most of the time.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 17, 2015)

oakapple said:


> Never heard of the sock puppet thing, it's hilarious.



Most forums I've ever used have some sock puppets.  It's where a troll uses that second (or more) identity to support their posts of to say things they don't have the guts to say under their primary user name.  Back in the late 90's I moderated on a Bianca forum and our admin could see IP's so it was a piece of cake to expose them.  Some forums now can automatically ban a member and his socks go with him/her.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2015)

LOL, yep, it's possible.  But I think for the most part they are afraid of the light, and I'm not much for creepin around in the dark


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2015)

Probably shouldn't mention this in case any trolls are listening but it's easy to hide your IP nowadays.  But like someone mentioned earlier, you learn to spot them.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 17, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Probably shouldn't mention this in case any trolls are listening but it's easy to hide your IP nowadays.  But like someone mentioned earlier, you learn to spot them.



Most forum will not allow membership under a proxy.  EOM.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 17, 2015)

nwlady said:


> It is hilarious.  I liked the one told about people "hiring" people to come in and give them reps. or replies saying how right they are etc.  I can't imagine someone not having something better to do, LOL



I participated in a forum where two people became embroiled in an argument.  One was a member of another forum.. SHE went to her friends at the other forum and soon all sorts of new members started registering at the first forum.  They of course jumped into the frey and attacked the person their friend was having an argument with..   It happens...and it happens a lot..   People who are supposed to be grown up can act like children.. Yes.. apparently they don't have anything better to do..  LOL


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## QuickSilver (Mar 17, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Probably shouldn't mention this in case any trolls are listening but it's easy to hide your IP nowadays.  But like someone mentioned earlier, you learn to spot them.



Yes.. people can hide their IPs...  and play these silly games.. But like I said.. they are childish.. and yes... they soon screw up and give themselves away.  They aren't rocket scientists.. lol!


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## QuickSilver (Mar 17, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Most forum will not allow membership under a proxy.  EOM.




Yes in most forums having several screen names is a bannable offense.


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## jujube (Mar 17, 2015)

View attachment 15992

Here's my favorite troll, The Freemont Troll under the bridge.  He's holding an actual VW bug in his left hand and his eye is a hubcap.   One of the major tourist attractions in the Seattle area and I have to go visit him every time I'm there.   He's nice to everyone....well, maybe except for the VW.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2015)

Only you could come up with this, LOL, I'm pretty sure I've met that guy??  Maybe it was on one of those dating forums, LOL!!  I mean, I never forget a hubcap


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