# Serious Illness Diagnosis, what do you do?



## Mike (Aug 16, 2013)

Do you rely on the Doctor, or do you try to help yourself?

In 2002 I was diagnosed with "Possible" Prostate Cancer!

During my session with the Specialist, I listened and when
he asked, "have you any questions", I said, "are there any
alternatives that I can try"?

The Doctor, (Mr. in the UK when he is a Specialist), looked
surprised and told me that he had never been asked that
question before.

He did though tell me that Saw Palmeto was very good, so
began my search for a cure without the help of the NHS.

I was very successful and when I was listed for an operation
in 2007, two weeks prior to the event, I was required to have
a Medical Inspection to see if I was Fit for a proceedure, after
which, I waited till the date.

The week before I was due in surgery, I got a phone call from
the Hospital asking me to come to see the Registrar on the
Friday before the Monday operation.

I went into his office and said that I didn't want his operation
because I thought that it was a bad one.

He said, "You are not getting any operation", I then asked "Why
Not"?

He told me that the medical that I had two weeks before showed
that there was nothing wrong with me, except an enlarged prostate,
(this is not a nice thing), my tests showed that I had similar readings
to a healthy young man.

So never give up if you ever, (God forbid), get bad news, but never
rely on prescribed medicines as they are all POISON.

The Medical Profession have three ways of working:-

1    Poison it.
2    Burn it.
3    Cut it out.

There is no other way!

Diet usually helps and today you can find a diet for any condition.

Google has many answers.

I hope that this helps somebody.

Mike.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 16, 2013)

I would try to treat it myself, and I completely agree that doctors are conditioned to recommend surgeries, poisons (chemo/radiation), etc.  Having lost a couple of family members to different kinds of cancer, and seeing them suffer, and in my opinion, die just from the treatments, I would opt for another way out.  Of course, if confronted with the diagnosis myself, I don't know how I would really react.

I've been giving my husband either Saw Palmetto, a saw palmetto complex, like those with pygeum or pumpkin seed oil, or Beta Sitosterol for years now, and so far so good.  .  Currently he's using a bottle of Beta Sitosterol from Swanson Vitamins.  There are also natural foods which support prostate health.  I've heard that elderly men don't actually die from prostate cancer anyway, only the biopsies and treatments.


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## Diwundrin (Aug 16, 2013)

Glad to hear you got lucky Mike.  

My uncle didn't trust Doctors either.  Put off treatment for enlarged prostate too long looking at the alternatives and it killed him relatively young.  
One size doesn't fit all in the cancer stakes and not every ticket is a winner.

For every trumpeted alternative 'cure' there are hundreds in cemetaries  that it didn't work for.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 16, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> My uncle didn't trust Doctors either.  Put off treatment for enlarged prostate too long looking at the alternatives and it killed him relatively young.
> One size doesn't fit all in the cancer stakes and not every ticket is a winner.
> 
> For every trumpeted alternative 'cure' there are hundreds in cemetaries  that it didn't work for.



Sorry to hear about your uncle Diwundrin, but chances are that looking for alternatives is not what killed him...he could've seen the same fate with treatment from a doctor, IMO.  Just as with those who follow the doctor's orders, not every ticket is a winner.  Plenty of cemetery plots with those who knew nothing of natural supplements or alternative treatments, and went strictly by their doctor's advice.


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## maxHR (Aug 16, 2013)

Doctors are licenced drug dealers with one goal: to make as much money out of you as possible.
The natural therapy people are grifters  with one goal: to make as much money out of you as possible.
Trust no one, everyone is out to scam you.


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## Diwundrin (Aug 16, 2013)

Thanks for that heads up 'Fox'.



Just ask yourselves why none of these 'alternative' cure inventors haven't won a Nobel Prize for curing cancer yet.

People die of it. Some can be saved and some can't regardless of the treatment. My uncle could have opted for early surgery and survived.  By the time he realised his error it was simply too late.

 Personally I'd go with cutting it out.  With an axe if necessary, rather than risking it spreading in the dim hope that some magical potion from the jungle is better than medical science. 
 I would literally bet my life that if today's level of medical know how can't cure it then neither will 'natural' remedies.   
I don't believe there are any 'cures' for cancer to be found in a bottle on a pharmacy shelf short of Nembutal.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 16, 2013)

Well, I'm not that knowledgeable, but I feel I have the intelligence to research the available options whether from the doctors, who may push drugs, but many times unknowingly...as that's what they are shown and trained for.  I've known many natural alternative folks who are just trying to share some possible options, and I do appreciate their caring efforts, many have personal experiences to share .  Some people are out to scam you for financial gain, but some people actually care...I know, hard to believe.  In the end, I personally want to know all my options if I'm faced with a physical or mental illness, and appreciate anyone who shares their thoughts.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 16, 2013)

Treatment is a personal choice, but it's smart to know that there is a choice.


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## Diwundrin (Aug 16, 2013)

They're all pushing drugs SB.  I'm not talking the local GP who often gets it wrong, I'm talking about specialist onchologists who know their stuff.  Any suspicion should be taken further than a GP, but not to a natural therapy salesman first.  They'll only tell you about the 'miraculous' successes.   Ask them how many they know that it didn't work for, bet their strike rate isn't as good as the medico's. 



That uncle's daughter had breast cancer diagnosed a few years later.  She went straight into private hospital and paid heaps for surgery and chemo because she wasn't going to make the same mistake as her Dad and go any waiting list.  11 years later she is free and clear of it and as healthy as anyone I know.  What alternative would be guaranteed to produce that result??

Sorry but it's a bit of contentious subject to me.  I concede that many natural products produce improvements to overall health but when it comes to claiming to be  curing cancer I draw a very heavy line.


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## Ozarkgal (Aug 16, 2013)

Second and sometimes third opinions are necessary, also.  I had a fried that was diagnosed with lymphatic cancer.  Her doctor was very aggressive in wanting to immediately start cancer treatments.  Thank goodness her mother was a registered nurse and insisted on a second opinion and arranged to have her tested by the Mayo clinic. Her results were negative, and she is alive and well today.


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## Anne (Aug 16, 2013)

I wouldn't follow blindly what my dr said, but would tell her if I decided to try other treatments, and ask her opinion of them.  To be honest; I have done this recently, and mentioned to the surgeon what I am trying.  He looked it up, and said it was probably a waste of money, but didn't think it would hurt.   They haven't a lot of experience with nutrition unless they have studied it on their own, so I can't see how they can  honestly say it's a waste of money, or won't help.

Sure, they are taught mostly to treat with meds, and/or operate, but I do think some of them honestly care.   OTOH, there are scam artists in the alternative medicine business; you just have to be very cautious and do the homework.  Dr David Williams is a good source, as is Dr Julian Whitaker...they are MD's and also do study alternatives, and have had success with it.  

I agree, it's good to know that we still have a choice as to how we can treat a medical problem.   Someday, maybe that choice won't be ours.
.


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## Casper (Aug 17, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> I would try to treat it myself, and I completely agree that doctors are conditioned to recommend surgeries, poisons (chemo/radiation), etc.  Having lost a couple of family members to different kinds of cancer, and seeing them suffer, and in my opinion, die just from the treatments, I would opt for another way out.  Of course, if confronted with the diagnosis myself, I don't know how I would really react.
> 
> I've been giving my husband either Saw Palmetto, a saw palmetto complex, like those with pygeum or pumpkin seed oil, or Beta Sitosterol for years now, and so far so good.  .  Currently he's using a bottle of Beta Sitosterol from Swanson Vitamins.  There are also natural foods which support prostate health.  I've heard that elderly men don't actually die from prostate cancer anyway, only the biopsies and treatments.  Here's related threads from the Health Forum if anyone is interested in further reading...http://www.natmedtalk.com/search.php?searchid=178359



_*Seabreeze.......my husband has been having prostate problems for a few years now......he's tried a couple of natural remedies but nothing has really helped......does the Beta Sitosterol help your hubby as mine hasn't tried that? It was one I wrote down when doing a google search recently but it's better if we hear from someone who has had success with a certain product.*_


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 17, 2013)

Casper said:


> _*Seabreeze.......my husband has been having prostate problems for a few years now......he's tried a couple of natural remedies but nothing has really helped......does the Beta Sitosterol help your hubby as mine hasn't tried that? It was one I wrote down when doing a google search recently but it's better if we hear from someone who has had success with a certain product.*_



I've been giving him those supplements as a preventative Casper, or basically to support the prostate and avoid any problems.  He's in his early sixties and has been taking those type of supplements for well over ten years now...no prostate issues as of yet.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 17, 2013)

A few short pages to read regarding alternatives for cancer treatments...

http://www.healthyfellow.com/797/alternative-cancer-news/#more-797
http://www.healthyfellow.com/1420/natural-chemotherapy-support-part-one/
http://www.healthyfellow.com/1427/natural-chemotherapy-support-part-two/


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## Mike (Aug 17, 2013)

Interesting replies.

We all have our own opinions of what is best for us in life.

What gets me thinking along the lines that I do, is that
Doctors and Drug Companies are new, late 19th or early
20th centiry is when they really got going.

Before that time, there was somebody in each place who
knew about herbs and other plants that were good at
helping with an illness, you can still buy herbal teas and
each packet tells you what it is good for, "Sleep", "Vitality",
"Skin", "Diuretic", etc., etc., etc.

When drug companies find a herb or plant that is good for
something, they get Scientists to work on it and try to
replicate the good bits in a laboritory, this saves them from
going up the Amazon River, or some other such place to get
the actual plant, this why they take many years to "perfect",
any drug, so their remedies are all manufactured and not
natural. They may say "Natural" on the label but could be
made from Petrolium, which is of course from a natural source.

So I look back and try to find something that has grown out
of the ground and hasn't been altered in any way.



SeaBreeze said:


> I've been giving him those supplements as a preventative Casper,
> or basically to support the prostate and avoid any problems.  He's in his early sixties and has
> been taking those type of supplements for well over ten years now...no prostate issues as of yet.



Saw Palmeto and Beta Sitosterol were the first two that I started with
when searching for help.
They were very good for me.

Mike.


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## Knightofalbion (Aug 17, 2013)

Over 575,000 Americans and over 1.25 million members of the European Union died of cancer last year, despite chemo, radiation and surgery...

There are many natural remedies for cancer that are worth your investigation. Better still changes to your diet and lifestyle can greatly reduce your risk of getting cancer in the first place...

A favourite 'cancer' website of mine is http://www.canceractive.com 
(There are other websites in a similar vein.) They cover all aspects of cancer prevention and treatment. Recommended viewing.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 17, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> ... Just ask yourselves why none of these 'alternative' cure inventors haven't won a Nobel Prize for curing cancer yet.



Perhaps because the Nobel Prize is a "closed club" where you're not even _considered_ unless you're part of the established Old Boy Science team ...



> Personally I'd go with cutting it out.  With an axe if necessary, rather than risking it spreading in the dim hope that some magical potion from the jungle is better than medical science.



Yes, because we all know that not a single modern medical potion is derived from anything _natural_ ... :apathy:




> I would literally bet my life that if today's level of medical know how can't cure it then neither will 'natural' remedies.



Now, now, Di - closed minds ... 

“_Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in._”   
   ~ Isaac Asimov


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 17, 2013)

Walnuts and prostate cancer...https://www.seniorforums.com/showthread.php/216-Walnuts-and-Prostate-Cancer


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## Knightofalbion (Aug 17, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Just ask yourselves why none of these 'alternative' cure inventors haven't won a Nobel Prize for curing cancer yet.



Dr Otto Warburg 
https://sites.google.com/site/ganodermareview/the-root-cause-of-cancer

There are thousands of people who have cured themselves of cancer using various natural/alternative treatments - Essiac, Hoxsey cancer treatment, laetrile/B-17, oxygen therapy, ozone therapy, Gerson therapy etc.

The Cancer Industry is one of the largest revenue producing businesses in the world. 
They seek to *control* cancer with expensive pharmaceutical drugs and treatments that generate billions in profits year after year after year. 
A free/low cost natural *cure* for cancer would derail the gravy train and destroy their business. That's why alternative treatments are rubbished and blocked out from the mainstream.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 17, 2013)

Well said Knight! ositive:


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## Knightofalbion (Aug 17, 2013)

This is a great story from Britain's 'Daily Mirror' newspaper last year. 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-cures-himself-of-cancer-using-1325900

And I can't forget dear old Jane Plant. She alive and well 20 years after a '3 months to live' diagnosis. Her diet and lifestyle changes saved her life.
http://www.rense.com/general35/av.htm


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## Diwundrin (Aug 17, 2013)

Re Phil's post.  

Okay, I'm about half awake so here we go...

1.
I use The Nobel Prize as a symbolic indicator of an accepted success by 'peers', true.... maybe instead I should have asked, why isn't someone being buried in $$$billions and  identified as the saviour of mankind for finding the 100% proven 'cure'? 

Or do you honestly believe that every Doctor is conspiring to allow us to die rather than to reveal the existence of this wonder drug which will put them out of business?   I don't doubt that a few might, but all of them??  Really?  I'm yet to meet a doctor, however incompetent,who was homicidally inclined.  Have I just been lucky?

 2. Of course modern medications are derived from naturally occurring chemicals, they don't come from Mars.  But.  They are used in conjunction with specific diagnoses, by people with more knowledge of their effects on an *individual* than your average pharmacy cash register operator. 

How much access to modern diagnostic equipment does your Natural Remedy/Therapy 'expert' have to not only accurately pinpoint the type of cancer they are 'treating' but to judge the individual reactions that might ensue??

Another point to ponder is that  specialist doctor's reputations and bank accounts are riding on them getting it as right as possible as often as possible.
 When natural therapists get it wrong they don't get sued for millions and chucked out of the 'profession'.

Cancer isn't something that's going to wait patiently while we try this or that and experiment with an 'alternative'.  While we wait those 6 weeks or months to see if the natural therapy works it's just getting on with whatever it's doing.  Then what if it doesn't work?  Start another experiment?   
 Early treatment is the  biggest factor in the survival rate.

3.
Like I said Phil... "bet *my* life"...  you can place your bets on whatever else you think might be a winner.  People can choose to believe whatever they want. The question was "what would you do?"  ... taking the 'axe' option is what I'd do that's all, I don't call for it to be mandatory for all.  Choose your own option.

If you see my view as a closed mind fine, but I see risking life on unproven 'alternatives' based on suspicion of the medical fraternity as kind of closed too.  
I have a similar view of the 'natural therapy' industry.
------------

The posts are drifting into 'preventative' medications, but that's another subject. This thread was asking what option we would take when it's a definite diagnosis of Serious Illness *Diagnosis* and how we would react to that. 

That people who have been following a healthy lifestyle and taking natural supplements and doing the right thing nutritionally still get terminal cancer surely has to make you wonder if further reliance on that regime alone will 'cure' what it didn't prevent?

But again, to each his own view.  
As Isaac said "“_Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in._”


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 27, 2013)

Study on using Ginger Extract for prostate cancer...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21849094


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## Jambi (Aug 30, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> I would literally bet my life that if today's level of medical know how can't cure it then neither will 'natural' remedies.




Sounds to me like you just did!


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## Happyflowerlady (Aug 30, 2013)

I think that each person has to make their own decision in life, who we will believe, and which roads we will walk down. I was raised by a mother that believed in doing everything with as much natural healing as could be done, rather than using doctors and drugs, and I have the same beliefs.

 My daughter, Robin, whom I love more dearly than anything, only believes in what a doctor can do for her, and doesn't even want to think of helping her MS by changing her diet. 
Instead, she takes thousands of dollars worth of medications to try and slow the progress of the disease. It breaks my heart that she won't even try, but it is her life and I can't change her, she has to open her mind to the possibility first.

They have been "looking for a cure" for cancer for many years, and with all the advances in medicines, we still treat it with the same old radiation treatments that were used back in the 1950s, and even with all the cancer drives and money that has been collected to find a cure........they haven't found ANYTHING  better ? 
The truth is, in some countries, intravenous drips of hydrogen peroxide have been very effective at killing cancer cells.  But it can't be patented and sold, nor does the treatment cost nearly as much as chemotherapy, so there are no grants to find ways to improve and use this treatment.

Even grapes, simple purple grapes, will kill cancer cells, but  no doctor is going to send you home and tell you to fast and eat grapes. It just doesn't happen.

http://www.alternativehealth.co.nz/cancer/grapediet/grape.htm


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## Katybug (Aug 30, 2013)

Most all men over a certain age will go through some type of prostrate issues, so my SIL was told.  Even with prostrate cancer, I guess depending on the type, they say you will generally die from something else before the cancer.  I know a man who has had prostrate cancer for 18 years and he's still doing well, just keeps a very close check on it.


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## Tom Young (Sep 9, 2013)

Before getting to the "diagnosis part"... whenever there's a question or a suspicion, I spend enough time, mnay hours if needs be, to go to my trusted medical websites, and learn as much as I can, before considering going to the doctor.  Not that I don't trust the doctor, but with the wealth of knowledge available, it's easy to learn as much or more than the doctor knows... (BTW, we have a magnificent young ultra smart lady doctor that we trust.. totally.)
That said, in the best circumstances testing is not perfect.  
With finger numbness, my doctor suspected carpal tunnel, and sent me to a neuroligist, who did extensive testing and confirmed the tentative diagnosis... This led to a carpal tunnel operation and subsequent recovery period.  Final result?... It was not carpal tunnel, and the $12K operation did no good... Further reading of medical abstracts infer an uncommon problem, as idiopathic (cause not known) peripheral neuritis... which has no known or accepted cure.  Knowing this, now, I can deal with it and accept it, putting it into perpective and realizing that it is not as serious as first thought. 

On the other hand three of my best friends have had serious problems, that advanced rapidly and which killed two of them. 

The first was pancreatic cancer... one week of intestinal upset, the diagnosis, and three weeks later death. 
The second was a Canadian 6 mo. resident in our FL community who had a persistant mild cough in January, but waited until the end of March to return to CA, for free medical care.  Diagnosis, lung cancer.  He died in September.
The third, my roomate from college.  A pediatrician, who at the first hint of a problem tested for  prostate cancer.  An extemely rapid onset and growth, resulting in an almost immediate prostatectomy, followed by 7 weeks of intensive radiation treatments.  He's ok now, but a very close call. 

Conclusion?  Hmmm... diagnosis and cure are not certain, but better the devil you know, and IMO, knowing as much as possible, independent of the doctor, doesn't hurt. 

Secondly though YMMV, homeopathic diagnosis and treatment is less to be trusted than accepted medical practices as defined by the National Health Organizations... especially for potentially serious or fatal problems. 

My opinion only.


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