# Investing



## mabelsmith40 (Mar 20, 2012)

I continue to invest to provide formyself and my family. Any advice on how to get a better return?


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## StillSurfing (Mar 20, 2012)

I use one or two websites that calculate the best deals relating to my circumstances.

Once a year, I will review my savings and more often than not, I will keep them with my current bank as the difference is minimal if I was to transfer etc..

This is not to say that we should not shop around for the best deals....


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## jeremygolan (Mar 20, 2012)

i would be skeptical of investing too much right now considering the economy. i was considering going in on a rental property with my son but nothing has turned out yet.


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## marshell08 (Mar 20, 2012)

In business there are often competing opportunities to invest money. Those investment options chosen are usually selected on the basis of forecasted ROI (Return on Investment). In life, we have multiple choices on how to spend our leisure time. It can be useful to consider our leisure options on the basis of a rough ROI for each.​


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## Polly (Mar 20, 2012)

I have a long-standing interest in property as an investment, and not just in relation to renting or re-selling. Any maintenance carried out on one's own home has the two-fold effect of being of benefit to oneself in the present, and keeping up the value of the property for a later date.  

You should enjoy a modern kitchen and bathroom, as well as keeping an eye on the good repair of external parts of the house such as roof and pipework etc - it's a way of keeping your money around you, literally, and also preserving it for the next generation.


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## AlbertC (Mar 21, 2012)

Even in an ecenomic "recession" there aren't really any new tricks at the end of the day for investing than the old financial tools that have been around forever: a well-distributed porfolio with some guaranteed investment certificates, and maybe a couple of well-insured mutual funds is the best trick for making steady returns over time.  Go to a financial adviser who doesn't work for a mutual fund company, otherwise you'll just end up buying that company's products, even if they aren't right for you! 

Of course, the interesting thing about the original post is that you have put an emphasis on investing for your family... and one of the best ways to do this is to invest IN your family! A son or a daughter or grandchild with a business that could use new capital is a great way to take a manageable risk for a good return, while making your money work twice as hard by benefitting your family.


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## adrian (Mar 21, 2012)

Spend a lot of time looking at what companies are doing well and then find the best one to invest it, the more time you spend reaserching, the better the outcome.


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## AlbertC (Mar 21, 2012)

That's definitely good advise. A bit of research outside of the numbers your financial adviser has given you will let you make smarter decisions, and more ethical ones too.


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## clive (Apr 4, 2012)

I put a portion of my savings into UK premium bonds a few years ago and have recieved a return of around 11% on average in price money still waiting for the jackpot though!


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## Bajabob (Oct 29, 2017)

I prefer to buy stocks that pay good dividends. Fixed income has a very low rate of return, so I avoid those things.


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## Lon (Oct 29, 2017)

Take a look at ETF's with both Charles Schwab and Vanguard


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## Lethe200 (Oct 29, 2017)

mabelsmith40 said:


> I continue to invest to provide formyself and my family. Any advice on how to get a better return?



If you are talking about equity and/or bond investments, it's a basic equation. 

*How much risk are you willing to accept?*

A diversified portfolio spreads out your risk, but it's the opposite of 'picking the next hot stock'. Do you want to be slow and steady, or risk more to gain more? 

Whatever you choose, pay attention to the fees, as others have pointed out. They'll eat away at your returns.

Be aware of certain ins and outs re investing. The larger your account, the better your chances of being able to buy at NAV (Net Asset Value) with fewer transactions fees. When you take distributions, be sure the broker understands you want them on a FIFO basis, not LIFO. Depending on how the tax laws change, this might not be so important in the future, however. 

Don't ever expect a broker, e.g., any fancy financial advisor title, to advise you on your tax situation re distributions, especially when you have both taxable and non-taxable accts. A good tax advisor can be your best friend. Also, ALWAYS be aware any phone call with a broker is recorded; they have sophisticated and practiced techniques for gaining your assent on risky investments (the "suitability" standard vs a true fiduciary responsibility). When I worked for an independent CFP who was often asked to testify in court, fully 50% of the proposed lawsuits he reviewed, he had to tell the lawyers that the customer had no case. They had been warned about the risks of an investment, but were "reasoned" into agreeing the proposed higher return was worth the higher risk. 

Don't confuse insurance with investing - if anybody tries to sell you an annuity, get an informed third or neutral opinion. Annuities have their place in some financial planning, but many are complex financial instruments. It's quite easy for an insurer to "set the numbers" so your investment works more to their advantage than to your own.


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## mathjak107 (Oct 31, 2017)

there is a difference between volatility and risk .

riding the market cycles with long term money is volatile but not very risky .   even at 65 we have long term money we won't be eating with for 20-30 years. that money can certainly be in volatile investments like an index fund .

trying to draw a  4%  inflation adjusted income  from fixed income is not volatile , it is risky and historically you would have run out of money more than 1/2 of all 30 year time frames we already had  as compared to running out of money only 5% of the time with a 50/50 mix  and none of the time with 75% equities .

risk comes from  mis-matching money time frames with investments time frames . it also comes from poor investor behavior or speculating and trying to beat markets at their own game . .   

so risk vs just volatility are 2 very different things. i find my 50/50 mix is just right for us .  but anything from 40-60% equities can be fairly safe for a 4% draw rate .  under 35% equities it becomes risky . so if under 35% you should not be drawing 4% and need to take a pay cut .


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## rkunsaw (Oct 31, 2017)

I put most of my money in solid companies that pay good dividends. I'm getting about 5.5%. Caution: you can get higher dividends but the risk can also be very high. I pick companies that have been paying good dividends for years.


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## mathjak107 (Oct 31, 2017)

dividends by themselves are meaningless , it is all about total return at the end of the day . with dividends included  if you did not beat a simple  s&p 500 index fund you shot yourself in the foot . you end up taking on another layer of risk namely not only market risk but individual company risk too and did worse for it .


just look at that supposed magical group of stocks called the dividend aristocrats .

you  keep seeing just invest in this group and call it a day .

however what  constitutes this group changes all the time so get ready for lots of selling  trying to keep up as they get bumped and replaced AFTER THE FACT THEY DID NOT  LIVE UP TO EXPECTATIONS . you could be behind the curve here very easily  .

these dividend aristocrats are not somehow immune to all the things  that effect company's and stocks . Just like other companies, their outcomes  change.

in 2009 there were 52 stocks that met the group’s strict  criteria.

As of 2012, there were 51.

But of those 51, 13 were  different than the original set. So over the course of just 3 years, there was a  27% change in the group’s composition. 

in fact going back to 1989's  list :

Of those 26, seven are still on the list today, ten were removed  because they either cut or froze their dividend, four were removed for an  unknown reason, and the remainder were acquired at some point. So at least ten of  the 26 had an outcome that is different from the assumption of dividend growth  every year through thick and thin.

keep in mind that your dividend is really a return of invested dollars .spending 5%  as a draw rate can be very risky and already failed 40% of all 30 year  time frames . drawing out a 5% dividend is the same as drawing 5% out of a portfolio of diversified assets  which is not recommended .


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## Bullie76 (Oct 31, 2017)

rkunsaw said:


> I put most of my money in solid companies that pay good dividends. I'm getting about 5.5%. Caution: you can get higher dividends but the risk can also be very high. I pick companies that have been paying good dividends for years.



I like dividends. Here's a pretty successful guy who does too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steves...n-oleary-oshares-etfs-investing/#7bbc6b1548c0


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## mathjak107 (Oct 31, 2017)

i like them to but without a good total return you got nothing .

the paying of a dividend is a  neutral event if you reinvest it or it is taking money out of the investment if you don't .

imagine having a 100k in a stock paying 5%.so  the night before the dividend you have have 100k , the next morning you have 5k in pocket and all exchange computers reduce the value of your holdings automatically before the open by the same amount .

so now you have 95k left compounding for the market to work on .  if you reinvest you have the exact same 100k compounding for you .

it is the appreciation in the stock that actually gives you your gain in all cases . the dividend is just them giving you back a piece of your investment the same as drawing the same dollars from a portfolio on your own .

drawing 5% from a non dividend portfolio that went up 8% as an example is  the same as a 5% dividend from a stock that went up 8 % in total return .


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