# Omicron has changed the shape of the pandemic. Will it end it for good?



## Alligatorob (Jan 22, 2022)

I don't usually like either CNN or the mainstream media on Covid issues, but this is an interesting and I think both well thought out and balanced article.  Says a lot of the things we have been saying here, but more completely.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/22/world/omicron-changed-pandemic-intl-cmd/index.html


----------



## Irwin (Jan 22, 2022)

Pretending that the omicron variant is mild doesn't make it so.

Yesterday, the U.S. reported 644,814 new confirmed cases and 2,479 deaths.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/cumulative-cases

The kids are not alright: Data suggests 10% of children with COVID-19 become "long-haulers"
https://www.salon.com/2022/01/22/th...s-10-of-children-with-19-become-long-haulers/


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 22, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Pretending that the omicron variant is mild doesn't make it so.


Thanks, those are interesting links.  I think the first kind of shows that although there has been a significant uptick in Covid infections there is not a matching uptick in deaths.  Suggesting Omicron is not as likely to kill, but there are still deaths, no doubt.  It is still early, these conclusions may change as time goes on.

The second one is more worrisome, 10% long term for kids does not sound good...  Again we don't really have all the data or answers, but it doesn't look good at this point.


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 22, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Pretending that the omicron variant is mild doesn't make it so.
> 
> Yesterday, the U.S. reported 644,814 new confirmed cases and 2,479 deaths.
> https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/cumulative-cases



Couldn't find in your link anything distinguishing what numbers are Delta (which is still hanging around) and which numbers are the milder (according to scientists) Omnicron.

Didn't see a breakdown of variants in the story about children either.

Those links are more suited to a general Covid thread than an Omnicron variant specific thread.

,


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 22, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I don't usually like either CNN or the mainstream media on Covid issues, but this is an interesting and I think both well thought out and balanced article.  Says a lot of the things we have been saying here, but more completely.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/22/world/omicron-changed-pandemic-intl-cmd/index.html



Excellent article.  In this piece alone, there are public health officials from England, Scotland, Spain who believe that after Omnicron wanes, we'll move from pandemic to endemic.  The top Swiss health official voiced the same a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## suds00 (Jan 22, 2022)

we have to wait and see.it would be great if the pandemic ends soon.


----------



## StarSong (Jan 22, 2022)

Nobody knows the properties of whatever variant will pop up next.  It might be more severe than Omicron, it might be less.  Might be more contagious, might be less.  Might be dramatically mitigated by previous infections and/or vaccinations, might not.   

Late last spring we were celebrating the dip in cases and deaths. Then Delta showed up.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but agree with @suds00. We'll all have to wait and see what happens.


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 25, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Might be dramatically mitigated by previous infections and/or vaccinations, might not.



This is most likely for Covid-19 given the concept of herd immunity.   

One thing we can say for sure is that with overcrowding in much of the world and rapid transportation, we'll have future pandemics that'll make Covid-19 variants look mild in hindsight.


----------



## Tish (Jan 25, 2022)

I doubt it will ever end, it just keeps mutating.


----------



## drifter (Jan 25, 2022)

No way, Jose. Will be around many more moons.


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 25, 2022)

Tish said:


> I doubt it will ever end, it just keeps mutating.



It likely won't go away, but will move from pandemic to endemic.

.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 25, 2022)

I would love this all come to an end, but viruses mutate. That is what they do so I don't see it coming to an end .


----------



## Tish (Jan 25, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> It likely won't go away, but will move from pandemic to endemic.
> 
> .


Yep, I agree.


----------



## Jeni (Jan 25, 2022)

https://abc7chicago.com/monoclonal-...odies-regeneron-treatment-eli-lilly/11507608/
FDA halts use of monoclonal antibody drugs from Regeneron, Eli Lilly that don't work vs. omicron​well i guess the FDA thinks that variant is the only game in town ..... seems a bit odd if treatments are being halted in the face of there is still delta out there....
But the FDA has already fighting a PR and confidence issue....


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 25, 2022)

The OP asked will the Omnicron variant end the pandemic for good  ...that means downgrading eventually to endemic.  All pandemics in the history of the world have ended and Covid-19 won't be an exception. 

Here's an article with good descriptions of the different terms applied to disease prevalence.   The last statement by Schaffner describes how influenza has existed in a mostly *endemic* state throughout the world for nearly 8,000 years in recorded history.  Occasionally an influenza variant will cause epidemics or pandemics, but some years don't even reach the outbreak defination of 'exceeding normal expectations.'

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/w...uestions-about-the-future-of-covid/ar-AASZb7A

Excerpt:

(Emphasis mine)

*Outbreaks* are generally defined as a sudden rise in the number of cases of a disease that exceeds normal expectations.​​An *epidemic* is essentially “a big outbreak of disease” that is usually limited by time and geography...​​...a* pandemic* is an epidemic that has spread over a wider geographical area, often worldwide, and is typically caused by a new virus or strain of virus that humans usually have little to no immunity against. In addition to having much higher numbers of infections and deaths than epidemics, pandemics tend to have larger social and economic impacts.​​In the case of the coronavirus, “the end of the pandemic doesn’t mean that the virus is gone,” Schaffner said. “It’s just that it’s in this kind of live-with, smoldering stage [*endemic*], and we’ll continue to have to cope with it depending upon what the characteristics of that virus are.”​​.​


----------



## Jeni (Jan 25, 2022)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wh...cine-or-test-mandate-large-employers-n1288003
Biden administration withdraws vaccine-or-test mandate for large employers​The mandate would have covered more than 80 million workers 

hopefully this means there is a light at end of tunnel .... why else would they give up fighting for this?


----------



## Becky1951 (Jan 25, 2022)

"why else would they give up fighting for this?"

Because the Supreme Court ruled it wasn't legal.


----------



## chic (Jan 26, 2022)

Dr. Robert Malone has warned that mass vaccinations can cause the virus to mutate and it could mutate into a more pathogenic strain than we have seen thus far which would be a worst case scenario.


----------



## Sunny (Jan 26, 2022)

Dr. Robert Malone is a quack.  See this article about him in the Washington Post.

How Robert Malone, vaccine scientist spreading misinformation, was embraced by Joe Rogan, anti-vaxxers - The Washington Post


----------



## Brookswood (Jan 26, 2022)

chic said:


> Dr. Robert Malone has warned that mass vaccinations can cause the virus to mutate and it could mutate into a more pathogenic strain than we have seen thus far which would be a worst case scenario.


Dr. Malone is embraced by Joe Rogan?     Such great examples of wisdom.    That's enough proof for me. I will immediately start a cleansing diet of green tea and psyllium husks  which will remove the vaccine from my body, ASAP.


----------



## Becky1951 (Jan 26, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> Dr. Malone is embraced by Joe Rogan?     Such great examples of wisdom.    That's enough proof for me. I will immediately start a cleansing diet of green tea and psyllium husks  which will remove the vaccine from my


There is a lot of guilt by association going around.

I've seen this in other comments about someone. If a person dislikes a doctor or experts known associates therefore that doctor or expert is automatically dismissed.


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 27, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Pretending that the omicron variant is mild doesn't make it so.
> 
> Yesterday, the U.S. reported 644,814 new confirmed cases and 2,479 deaths.
> https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/cumulative-cases
> ...


That second link is _cumulative cases_ - all cases combined - and the article specifies "since the 50th case was recorded." 

So a total of all cases from all strains since the beginning. In the US there's been a steep drop in the # of daily cases since omicron started taking over Delta several weeks ago. In other countries the numbers dropped earlier because omicron took over earlier. The US is one of omicron's final final destinations on its trip around the globe.

Second link is talking about covid-19, the coronavirus strain that caused the pandemic, and the deadliest of all.

Just want to mention, too; scientists are quickly discovering very effective treatments to stop long-haul covid. Some are being used in trials as I type. If trials go well, approval and production of these treatments will probably be expedited.


----------



## suds00 (Jan 27, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> There is a lot of guilt by association going around.
> 
> I've seen this in other comments about someone. If a person dislikes a doctor or experts known associates therefore that doctor or expert is automatically dismissed.


both sides are dismissing doctors and so-called experts that  have an opinion or present facts which they disagree with


----------



## Becky1951 (Jan 27, 2022)

suds00 said:


> both sides are dismissing doctors and so-called experts that  have an opinion or present facts which they disagree with


I agree, I read articles posted here and make up my mind about what is discussed in them, I don't know half of who they are and even those I do know of if I disagreed with those in the past I still read them, maybe I get a different perspective of what they are saying, maybe not but they all deserve to be considered imo.

Not even bothering to read or listen due to someone's association to someone else is being very closed minded imo.


----------



## Brookswood (Jan 27, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> I agree, I read articles posted here and make up my mind about what is discussed in them, I don't know half of who they are and even those I do know of if I disagreed with those in the past I still read them, maybe I get a different perspective of what they are saying, maybe not but they all deserve to be considered imo.
> 
> Not even bothering to read or listen due to someone's association to someone else is being very closed minded imo.


Up to a point, I agree. But, the person must also have some creds and be able to back up what they say.  We must be able to separate those who contribute, discuss and are willing to engage in back and forth dialogue from those who are just shooting off their mouths or have a hidden agenda.  Otherwise the discussion gets overwhelmed by static and nonsense.

IOW, we must each decide whose opinions have credibility and contribute to the discussion and separate them from those who who speak from ignorance or have different agendas.   This is not unusual.  Anybody who has been on a jury knows that one job of the jurors is to decide which witnesses they can believe and trust.   And which ones they won't.   It's not always easy.


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 27, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> Up to a point, I agree. But, the person must also have some creds and be able to back up what they say.  We must be able to separate those who contribute, discuss and are willing to engage in back and forth dialogue from those who are just shooting off their mouths or have a hidden agenda.  Otherwise the discussion gets overwhelmed by static and nonsense.
> 
> IOW, we must each decide whose opinions have credibility and contribute to the discussion and separate them from those who who speak from ignorance or have different agendas.   This is not unusual.  Anybody who has been on a jury knows that one job of the jurors is to decide which witnesses they can believe and trust.   And which ones they won't.   It's not always easy.



There are certainly a few here who are regurgitating what they hear on whichever of the two polarized news camps they've chosen to believe hook line and sinker.  Those are easy to dismiss and are few, thankfully.

Then there's the more prevalent group who occasionally think outside their ideological frame work, and I enjoy reading and discussing their posts at times.

Harder to find are those who want to question and research outside the 'go team' two...and only TWO.... sides of Western news media.  

.


----------



## chic (Jan 27, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> There are certainly a few here who are regurgitating what they hear on whichever of the two polarized news camps they've chosen to believe hook line and sinker.  Those are easy to dismiss and are few, thankfully.
> 
> Then there's the more prevalent group who occasionally think outside their ideological frame work, and I enjoy reading and discussing their posts at times.
> 
> ...


I believe we should question just about everything regarding the handling of this pandemic. Otherwise we'll never learn from it.


----------



## Jeni (Jan 27, 2022)

We do need to learn from this ... but data is too unreliable and biased. no distinction of died with or from... 

hospital totals instead of those there for covid vs those being treated for other items and then tested positive .... Many with out symptoms. It is unbelievable that this distinction was not asked for by governors / agencies from the start..... 

We  will always have division if the only item that some want is just believe whatever you are told NO QUESTIONS asked  and false faith in "experts".
I find many simply do not look into the past.  
How many treatments that in their day.... experts believed were great and then found oops that was not the best route ..... 
but  THIS time so many simply refuse to think we Might be on wrong path again.  

here is a link of hysteria and false info from with another health crisis ... HIV
the issue is when links are posted people do not read with open mind and ask themselves ...

Does this make sense?  
Does this show a pattern of jumping to conclusions about a new disease ? 
Do track records Matter? 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...ds-patients-could-put-kids-at-risk/ar-AAQvxnc


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 27, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> Up to a point, I agree. But, the person must also have some creds and be able to back up what they say.  We must be able to separate those who contribute, discuss and are willing to engage in back and forth dialogue from those who are just shooting off their mouths or have a hidden agenda.  Otherwise the discussion gets overwhelmed by static and nonsense.
> 
> IOW, we must each decide whose opinions have credibility and contribute to the discussion and separate them from those who who speak from ignorance or have different agendas.   This is not unusual.  Anybody who has been on a jury knows that one job of the jurors is to decide which witnesses they can believe and trust.   And which ones they won't.   It's not always easy.


Brooks, do you know that Dr. Malone is internationally recognized as the Chief Architect of mRna vaccine technology? He hasn't been _allowed_ to speak out about problems with mRna except on "conservative" media outlets. So, whether my politics align with that type of media or not, I _have_ to go there to hear what Dr Malone has to say.


----------



## Shero (Jan 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Brooks, do you know that Dr. Malone is internationally recognized as the Chief Architect of mRna vaccine technology? He hasn't been _allowed_ to speak out about problems with mRna except on "conservative" media outlets. So, whether my politics align with that type of media or not, I _have_ to go there to hear what Dr Malone has to say.



*NO! Malone is not the chief architect of anything.  He was one of dozens who worked on the mRna vaccine technology.
.*


----------



## Shero (Jan 27, 2022)

*YouTube takes down anti-vax Joe Rogan interview with Dr Robert Malone*

YouTube has removed a now-viral episode of _The Joe Rogan Experience_, featuring an interview between the divisive host and Dr Robert Malone, a scientist with a history of controversial statements regarding Covid-19.

The episode, No 1757, was uploaded to Spotify on New Year’s Eve as part of Mr Rogan’s exclusive deal with the streaming service, and then shared by several third-party channels to YouTube. _The Post Millennial_ reports it was then removed from the platform, reportedly in violation of the site’s Community Guidelines.

During the three-hour and six-minute interview, Dr Malone – whose Twitter account, followed by more than 500,000 people, was suspended last Wednesday – claimed to be part of the team that invented the mRNA technology used in coronavirus vaccines.

The 61-year-old also touched on vaccines and mandates, before sensationally drawing parallels between the current state of the US and Nazi Germany.

The doctor alleged on the podcast that American society is experiencing a “mass formation psychosis” similar to Germany in the 1920s and 30s and. compared the current state of the US to Nazi Germany.

********
Why did youtube and twitter ban Malone?  Because he is a fake !!

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...e/news-story/dac9fa69eba2fcd1f4a2c860880c1fa4


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 27, 2022)

Jeni said:


> We do need to learn from this ... but data is too unreliable and biased. no distinction of died with or from...
> 
> hospital totals instead of those there for covid vs those being treated for other items and then tested positive .... Many with out symptoms.* It is unbelievable that this distinction was not asked for by governors / agencies from the start.....*


Also, research scientists asked for the cadavers or tissue samples from cadavers but hospitals weren't allowing it, which is astonishing to me. But finally, like late last year, they started allowing researchers to have actual tissue samples and also they finally started letting certain medical universities do autopsies too. If both those things had been allowed early on, I think lives would have been saved. And policy-makers would have been able to come up with better strategies. This is why some people wonder of they didn't _want_ to.


----------



## Shero (Jan 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Also, research scientists asked for the cadavers or tissue samples from cadavers but hospitals weren't allowing it, which is astonishing to me. But finally, like late last year, they started allowing researchers to have actual tissue samples and also they finally started letting certain medical universities do autopsies too. If both those things had been allowed early on, I think lives would have been saved. And policy-makers would have been able to come up with better strategies. This is why some people wonder of they didn't _want_ to.



Scientists have had tissue samples for a while now and have found the Omicron variant can survive longer than earlier versions of the coronavirus on plastic surfaces and human skin.

Nothing new here!


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Jan 27, 2022)

Some of the unvaxxed think they are so smart, they game the system [pun intended] and then post it on social media. I hope they didn't infect anyone with Omicron. 

"A New York couple faces charges after allegedly posting on social media that they had attended a Buffalo Bills football game at Highmark Stadium on January 15 using fake Covid-19 vaccine cards, according to the Erie County District Attorney's Office.

Amber Naab, 37, and Michael Naab, 34, each face a second-degree felony charge of criminal possession of a forged instrument, Erie County District Attorney John J. Flynn said in a news conference. The couple was arraigned Tuesday evening and both pleaded not guilty, according to Kait Munro, a spokesperson for the DA's office."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/27/us/fake-vaccine-cards-buffalo-bills-game/index.html


----------



## Irwin (Jan 27, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> *Some of the unvaxxed think they are so smart,* they game the system [pun intended] and then post it on social media. I hope they didn't infect anyone with Omicron.
> 
> "A New York couple faces charges after allegedly posting on social media that they had attended a Buffalo Bills football game at Highmark Stadium on January 15 using fake Covid-19 vaccine cards, according to the Erie County District Attorney's Office.
> 
> ...


That's the Dunning–Kruger effect at work. Most of them have no higher education, they get their information from unreliable sources without questioning what they're told, and they think they're knowledgeable as a result. They have no idea how much they don't know, so they think they know it all.


----------



## Jeni (Jan 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Also, research scientists asked for the cadavers or tissue samples from cadavers but hospitals weren't allowing it, which is astonishing to me. But finally, like late last year, they started allowing researchers to have actual tissue samples and also they finally started letting certain medical universities do autopsies too. If both those things had been allowed early on, I think lives would have been saved. And policy-makers would have been able to come up with better strategies. This is why some people wonder of they didn't _want_ to.


I agree. 
This disease has is often different in many patients.... the one size fits all mantra has no space here.  
The more and earlier this research was done the better.


----------



## chic (Jan 28, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Brooks, do you know that Dr. Malone is internationally recognized as the Chief Architect of mRna vaccine technology? He hasn't been _allowed_ to speak out about problems with mRna except on "conservative" media outlets. So, whether my politics align with that type of media or not, I _have_ to go there to hear what Dr Malone has to say.


Me also. I would listen to Dr. Malone who is so knowledgeable he had to be censored into silence. He's a virologist and a vaccinologist, the first to test and try the mRNA vaccines. He spoke at the Washington DC rally last Sunday and we do have to go to alternative sources to hear him and others because all are censored by our own governments. Govt./media silencing of the best medical experts on this subject during a global pandemic is tyranny bordering on totalitarianism. There needs to be respect for differing opinions. That is what science is all about as I learned it in school. Not a one size fits all approach to a solution.


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 28, 2022)

@chic

Hundreds of medical scientist, professors and practitioners are warning against a one size fits all approach, particularly the push for everyone to get a 3rd and 4th jab because they have data showing that these subsequent vaccines are actually reducing people's immunity by a great margin. The CDC published that data yesterday, I think...or day before. These doctors are pushing for people to be tested to see if they have natural immunity, and if not, they should be vaxxed if they haven't been. They're also pushing for wider publication of their natural immunity findings, which is that natural immunity gives people the same protection as the vaccine but lasts way longer. Others who need vaccination boosters are patients with obesity, diabetes militias, severe lung and upper respiratory diseases, elderly people, and people who were never exposed to SARS Cov2. These are the people who need the boosters.


----------



## oldman (Jan 28, 2022)

While I was in the hospital for several weeks fighting Encephalitis, I was told by my nurse, who looked after me very diligently, so I called her "my nurse," that there had been four COVID deaths the day before. I was feeling so rotten that I just couldn't feel the sorrow that I should have for the families that lost their loved ones. This COVID, SARS or whatever it's real name is, has become a tragedy like no other in my lifetime.


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 28, 2022)

oldman said:


> While I was in the hospital for several weeks fighting Encephalitis, I was told by my nurse, who looked after me very diligently, so I called her "my nurse," that there had been four COVID deaths the day before. I was feeling so rotten that I just couldn't feel the sorrow that I should have for the families that lost their loved ones. This COVID, SARS or whatever it's real name is, has become a tragedy like no other in my lifetime.


Same for me, oldman. My kids are in their 30s and early 40s, and I think they'll probably be saying the same thing when they're my age. I mean, it's possible another pandemic will come along, but I truly believe we'll be better prepared. Wiser, too.


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 28, 2022)

Well, a couple of days ago, the city bus website said some of the bus routes will now run less frequently because many drivers are out sick due to covid.


----------



## Snow74 (Jan 28, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I don't usually like either CNN or the mainstream media on Covid issues, but this is an interesting and I think both well thought out and balanced article.  Says a lot of the things we have been saying here, but more completely.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/22/world/omicron-changed-pandemic-intl-cmd/index.html


Does anyone believe it could ever result in “ Survival of the Fittest” this scares me…


----------



## oldman (Jan 28, 2022)

I heard on TV yesterday that we are 40,000 truck drivers short in this country and 20,000 pilots short also. I would still fly, if the FAA would allow me. Heck, put a younger man in the cockpit with me and if I croak while flying, they will still have one good pilot.


----------



## Don M. (Jan 28, 2022)

The employment numbers just don't seem to add up, at least, to me.  The "official" numbers are claiming that unemployment is under 4%, yet everywhere I go, there are Help Wanted signs on the stores.  We have TV ads looking for school bus drivers, and local factory workers, etc.  It appears that huge numbers of people have left the workforce, due to Covid, But, aren't those people being counted in these unemployment figures??  

This Covid is far from over.  While Omicron seems to be less deadly than the Delta strain, it is already mutating into some new variants, and will probably continue to do so...for years to come.


----------



## Becky1951 (Jan 28, 2022)

oldman said:


> I heard on TV yesterday that we are 40,000 truck drivers short in this country and 20,000 pilots short also. I would still fly, if the FAA would allow me. Heck, put a younger man in the cockpit with me and if I croak while flying, they will still have one good pilot.


Altho the US media isn't reporting how many truckers are protesting the vaccine mandate, there are many protesting it just like Canadian truckers are doing. 
Just type truckers protesting mandates into your search. You'll be surprised by the numbers.

Instead of the US media being truthful and saying truckers are not at work due to protesting, they care claiming its due to covid, well yes it is in a way, but not due to them having covid.


----------



## chic (Jan 28, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> @chic
> 
> Hundreds of medical scientist, professors and practitioners are warning against a one size fits all approach, particularly the push for everyone to get a 3rd and 4th jab because they have data showing that these subsequent vaccines are actually reducing people's immunity by a great margin. The CDC published that data yesterday, I think...or day before. These doctors are pushing for people to be tested to see if they have natural immunity, and if not, they should be vaxxed if they haven't been. They're also pushing for wider publication of their natural immunity findings, which is that natural immunity gives people the same protection as the vaccine but lasts way longer. Others who need vaccination boosters are patients with obesity, diabetes militias, severe lung and upper respiratory diseases, elderly people, and people who were never exposed to SARS Cov2. These are the people who need the boosters.


Exactly. I agree with you. This is why it's harmful to label some conspiracy theorists for having a different opinion. Why we still have vaccine mandates? IDK. That should go too.


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 28, 2022)

Sunny said:


> Dr. Robert Malone is a quack.  See this article about him in the Washington Post.
> 
> How Robert Malone, vaccine scientist spreading misinformation, was embraced by Joe Rogan, anti-vaxxers - The Washington Post



The Washington Post is subscription,  so I read their articles once they're picked up by a news aggregate.   I have found it as well as the NYT in the past few years the polar opposite of--and just as biased as--Fox News.  All three sources mentioned are so ideological slanted as to be useless other than as a starting point for clues to original sources.

As for Malone,  he brings up worst case scenarios that are pure speculation at this point. He is well educated and has extensive research experience with mRNA therapeutics, but there's no way to prove him right or wrong other than with time.


----------



## Brookswood (Jan 28, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Brooks, do you know that Dr. Malone is internationally recognized as the Chief Architect of mRna vaccine technology? He hasn't been _allowed_ to speak out about problems with mRna except on "conservative" media outlets. So, whether my politics align with that type of media or not, I _have_ to go there to hear what Dr Malone has to say.


I am open to new information.  Alas, when it comes to the media, both the liberal and conservative sides are driven first and foremost by *ratings and profits*. Truth is an unfortunate  victim, collateral damage.    The more flash and gas a source exhibits, the less I trust them.


----------



## Brookswood (Jan 28, 2022)

suds00 said:


> both sides are dismissing doctors and so-called experts that  have an opinion or present facts which they disagree with



Sadly that is very true. 

I love listening to opposing sides that present facts and reason, and acknowledge that they  could be wrong.    The more certain a person is that she or he is right, the greater the chance they are dangerously wrong. (See the Dunning Kruger Effect.)   People who can't say "I was wrong" are among the most dangerous to get advice from. 

Gosh, I am wrong so often, I must be brilliant!   Or am I wrong about that also.


----------



## Sunny (Jan 28, 2022)

chic said:


> Me also. I would listen to Dr. Malone who is so knowledgeable he had to be censored into silence. He's a virologist and a vaccinologist, the first to test and try the mRNA vaccines. He spoke at the Washington DC rally last Sunday and we do have to go to alternative sources to hear him and others because all are censored by our own governments. Govt./media silencing of the best medical experts on this subject during a global pandemic is tyranny bordering on totalitarianism. There needs to be respect for differing opinions. That is what science is all about as I learned it in school. Not a one size fits all approach to a solution.


Sigh.  He's a quack, Chic.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Jan 28, 2022)

Does anybody know if the response to the 1919 epidemic was so politically divisive?  I can't believe where we've gotten ourselves.


----------



## suds00 (Jan 28, 2022)

i'm not sure but i believe people had less knowledge 
 of science and didn't ask questions, and believed    
those in  charge .also the 1919' spanish flu 'epidemic didn't last as long as this pandemic and possibly people didn't get as worked up .today everyone questions everything and everyone.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Does anybody know if the response to the 1919 epidemic was so politically divisive?  I can't believe where we've gotten ourselves.


According to this article things were a lot the same as today:

*'A breaking point': Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus
Opposition to public health directives forced some cities to roll back orders too quickly.*
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...-during-spanish-flu-offer-cautionary-n1202111


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Does anybody know if the response to the 1919 epidemic was so politically divisive?  I can't believe where we've gotten ourselves.


During the 1919 pandemic, everyone including politicians left it up to medical science to figure out the best approach, treatment, and precautions. So when doctors said mask-up, most people did. Vaccines were a new thing and medical scientists hadn't discovered viruses yet, so they thought the flu was a bacterial infection. They developed several antibacterial vaccines for the "flu bacteria". Some scientists today think that some of those vaccines might have given cross-protection from multiple related strains, and all of them agree that exposure/herd immunity is why it weakened and died out.


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 28, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> As for Malone,  he brings up worst case scenarios that are pure speculation at this point. He is well educated and has extensive research experience with mRNA therapeutics, but there's no way to prove him right or wrong other than with time.


And that's kind of like, when there's no current data or live tissue cells to test, scientists use computer modeling to basically predict outcomes and results. They haven't always been accurate, and some of the inaccurate ones have been way out there in Not-Land.


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 28, 2022)

Sunny said:


> He's a quack...



You're misusing quack --definition below.  I think Malone is going out on a limb with his more extreme predictions, is overly enjoying the attention he's getting, but he certainly is not a pretender.

Malone's education:  BS in biochemistry from the University of California, Davis,  MS in biology from the University of California, MD from Northwestern University School of Medicine. He did a year of post-doctoral study at Harvard.   His vita includes numerous peer-reviewed published studies including mRNA therapeutics.

Definition of medical quack:​​a fraudulent or ignorant pretender to medical skill.​a person who pretends, professionally or publicly, to skill, knowledge, or qualifications he or she does not possess; a charlatan.​​​.​


----------



## Ladybj (Jan 28, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I would love this all come to an end, but viruses mutate. That is what they do so I don't see it coming to an end .


I agree.  A virus is a virus which "they" develop different names.  No matter what they call it, its a virus...jmo.  The common cold, flu, pneumonia has been around for as long as I can remember and there has never been a vaccine for the common cold as far as I know.  I do believe Covid will calm down a bit once media exposure calm down - just a matter of time. Jmo. May we all be safe - not paranoid but safe.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 28, 2022)

Shero said:


> *NO! Malone is not the chief architect of anything.  He was one of dozens who worked on the mRna vaccine technology.
> .*


Don't know how many times that has to be said before it sinks in for some, for some, it may never sink in.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 28, 2022)

Ladybj said:


> I agree.  A virus is a virus which "they" develop different names.  No matter what they call it, its a virus...jmo.  The common cold, flu, pneumonia has been around for as long as I can remember and there has never been a vaccine for the common cold as far as I know.  I do believe Covid will calm down a bit once media exposure calm down - just a matter of time. Jmo. May we all be safe - not paranoid but safe.


The last I checked not many have died from a common cold and certainly not even come close to passing away from the flu or even pneunomia. Covid is certainly on a different level if not just for that. I do hope at some period of time that this will all settle, but honestly it is not going to because the virus will continue to mutate because there are way too many people throughout that will spread the virus and the new strains.


----------



## chic (Jan 28, 2022)

Sunny said:


> Sigh.  He's a quack, Chic.


He's a fully vaxxed doctor who has the most experience with mRNA vaccines of anyone. If you want to label him a quack fine but that's not your opinion, it's a regurgitation of government narrative. And, in doing so, you're eliminating the advice of the man who probably knows the most about this subject than anyone else and could provide help that would benefit us and future generations. It's not scientific to disregard his opinions on this subject.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 28, 2022)

chic said:


> He's a fully vaxxed doctor who has the most experience with mRNA vaccines of anyone. If you want to label him a quack fine but that's not your opinion, it's a regurgitation of government narrative. And, in doing so, you're eliminating the advice of the man who probably knows the most about this subject than anyone else and could provide help that would benefit us and future generations. It's not scientific to disregard his opinions on this subject.


But you probably do the exact same thing to Dr. Anthony Fauci who is regarded as a leading if not the leading physician scientist and immunologist on infectious diseases in the country.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 28, 2022)

chic said:


> He's a fully vaxxed doctor who has the most experience with mRNA vaccines of anyone. If you want to label him a quack fine but that's not your opinion, it's a regurgitation of government narrative. And, in doing so, you're eliminating the advice of the man who probably knows the most about this subject than anyone else and could provide help that would benefit us and future generations. It's not scientific to disregard his opinions on this subject.


Sunny is right, he is a quack and a darling of the anti-vaxx conspiracy nutters. You are brainwashed to believe to fear the gubmint, you need to stop listening to these conspiracy idiots, you're too smart of a lady to go that route.  

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/jan/06/who-robert-malone-joe-rogans-guest-was-vaccine-sci/



> *Dr. Robert Malone was banned from Twitter for violating the platform's COVID-19 misinformation policies. Soon after, YouTube removed videos of a controversial interview he did with Spotify podcast host Joe Rogan, according to reports.*
> *Leaning on his early contributions to research around the mRNA vaccine technology now used in the COVID-19 vaccines, Malone has billed himself as the “inventor” of mRNA vaccines. In reality, the development of the vaccines and the technology they rely on involved countless scientists and several other breakthroughs.*
> *Malone has promoted several false and misleading claims about the COVID-19 vaccines and pandemic. His claim of being the mRNA vaccine inventor and his ability to speak fluidly in scientific terms have given him great appeal to anti-vaccine audiences.*


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 28, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> But you probably do the exact same thing to Dr. Anthony Fauci who is regarded as a leading if not the leading physician scientist and immunologist on infectious diseases in the country.


I have great respect for Dr. Fauci, he is very knowledgeable and has the best interest of the health of all Americans and that of our country.  This is a new coronavirus that we are dealing with and he is closely following the data and the variants and informing us as best as he possibly can.  It angers me that he has had death threats to himself and his family from these conspiracy anti-American nutters who are ignorant and angry individuals.  They are a cancer in our country.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 28, 2022)

Jeni said:


> We do need to learn from this ... but data is too unreliable and biased. no distinction of died with or from...
> 
> hospital totals instead of those there for covid vs those being treated for other items and then tested positive .... Many with out symptoms. It is unbelievable that this distinction was not asked for by governors / agencies from the start.....
> 
> ...


Very insightful video.  It hits home since I had so many friends pass away of AIDs in the 80's.  My response is that there is so little known about infectious diseases in the beginning that misinformation can certainly be prevalent.  We are in the second year of Covid so hopefully the medical experts have learned something and can advise wisely.  Thanks for posting.


----------



## john19485 (Jan 28, 2022)

The Sun will come up tomorrow, if it does not , don't worry I'm in a better place.


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 28, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> ...  I think Malone is going out on a limb with his more extreme predictions, is overly enjoying the attention he's getting, but he certainly is not a pretender.
> .​


Same could be said about Faucci except he's hit some rather public rough patches here lately. A cautionary example for Malone, imo..


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 28, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> The last I checked not many have died from a common cold and *certainly not even come close to passing away from the flu or even pneunomia*. Covid is certainly on a different level if not just for that. I do hope at some period of time that this will all settle, but honestly it is not going to because the virus will continue to mutate because there are way too many people throughout that will spread the virus and the new strains.


Rah-Rah, the flu and pneumonia cause tens of thousands of deaths every year. That's why annual flu shots are available.


----------



## Irwin (Jan 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Does anybody know if the response to the 1919 epidemic was so politically divisive?  I can't believe where we've gotten ourselves.


It couldn't have been as politically divisive. Our country hasn't been this bad since the Civil War, and we could very well be verging on another civil war. Everything is political these days. Facts are now political. Like Stephen Colbert said: "Reality has a liberal bias." While he said it as a joke, there's truth in it. If you don't spin facts to the right, you're considered a liberal. That's how bad it's gotten.


----------



## chic (Jan 29, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> The Washington Post is subscription,  so I read their articles once they're picked up by a news aggregate.   I have found it as well as the NYT in the past few years the polar opposite of--and just as biased as--Fox News.  All three sources mentioned are so ideological slanted as to be useless other than as a starting point for clues to original sources.
> 
> As for Malone,  he brings up worst case scenarios that are pure speculation at this point. He is well educated and has extensive research experience with mRNA therapeutics, but there's no way to prove him right or wrong other than with time.


I respectfully disagree. He has said mass vaccine makes the vaccines less effective and has warned about vaccinating children who don't need it, and the possibility of ADE which is antibody dependency enhancement which we are seeing happen in the most vaccinated countries on earth in real time. Israel is on their 4th shot now. So this isn't worst case scenario speculation when you see and hear about it happening.


----------



## chic (Jan 29, 2022)

SeaBreeze said:


> Sunny is right, he is a quack and a darling of the anti-vaxx conspiracy nutters. You are brainwashed to believe to fear the gubmint, you need to stop listening to these conspiracy idiots, you're too smart of a lady to go that route.
> 
> https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/jan/06/who-robert-malone-joe-rogans-guest-was-vaccine-sci/


What exactly do you and @Sunny disagree with that Dr. Malone has said? I'd enjoy hearing Your opinions and not the parroting of govt. narrative.


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 29, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Same could be said about Faucci except he's hit some rather public rough patches here lately. A cautionary example for Malone, imo..



Agreed. I have about the same degree of confidence in some of both their spiels.


----------



## Sunny (Jan 29, 2022)

chic said:


> What exactly do you and @Sunny disagree with that Dr. Malone has said? I'd enjoy hearing Your opinions and not the parroting of govt. narrative.


Here's part of an article in the Washington Post about him:

 Malone argued Sunday that the omicron variant “is destroying the approved narrative that the vaccines are safe and effective,” ignoring last week’s CDC notice that vaccine boosters were preventing serious illness from the omicron variant of the coronavirus, which causes the disease covid-19. He also discouraged people from getting vaccinated and pushed instead for natural immunity, which, as emergency physician Leana S. Wen wrote for The Post in August, is dangerous.

It didn’t stop there. A Canadian study suggesting a high rate of heart inflammation after people were given coronavirus vaccines was retracted by the study’s authors in September because of a significant mathematical error, the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. reported. Despite the major inaccuracy, screenshots of the preprint study spread among the anti-vaccine community. Among those who shared it was Malone, who got a huge response to the tweet but did not take it down, even though many noted that the study had been retracted.
Timothy Caulfield, the Canada research chair in health law and policy at the University of Alberta, said Malone injecting himself into a conversation with the kind of credentials he has, and “cherry-picking rotten data,” was “a worst-case scenario.”
“You have this individual who has all these credentials and this history in the biomedical world, so that looks impressive. And he’s referencing a study that, on the face of it, may look impressive. But you don’t know that the study is fraudulent,” Caulfield said, adding that Malone has “weaponized bad research.”

In November, Malone shared a deceptive video to his Twitter followers that falsely linked athlete deaths to coronavirus shots. The video suggested that coronavirus vaccination killed Jake West, a 17-year-old Indiana high school football player who died of sudden cardiac arrest. But the vaccine played no role in West’s death. The teen died of an undiagnosed heart condition in 2013.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Rah-Rah, the flu and pneumonia cause tens of thousands of deaths every year. That's why annual flu shots are available.


Looking at my original post I don't think I explained that very well. I do fully understand that people die from the flu and and pneumonia every year. 10 of thousands of deaths per year compared to the deaths from Covid is not even close to the same thing. I understand a death is a death and it is horrible no matter what, but the amount of loss due to the Covid virus if you compare it yearly is way more than 10 thousand per year.


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 29, 2022)

Sunny said:


> Here's part of an article in the Washington Post about him:
> 
> Malone argued Sunday that the omicron variant “is destroying the approved narrative that the vaccines are safe and effective,” ignoring last week’s CDC notice that vaccine boosters were preventing serious illness from the omicron variant of the coronavirus, which causes the disease covid-19. He also discouraged people from getting vaccinated and pushed instead for natural immunity...



It's wrong of Malone to tell people who have never contracted Covid-19 to avoid the vaccine in favor of natural immunity.  It is also wrong of Fauci et al to discount natural immunity in previously recovered individuals.

Had our pharmaceutical dollar driven medical culture recognized both when study after study began coming in showing the benefits and limitations of each type of immunity in terms of real world efficacy, Covid-19 would not be so controversial.


.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jan 29, 2022)

I had read a few weeks ago that a scientist (for Pfizer I believe) said that COVID would become endemic. I wonder what the next variant will bring and will it be more severe than Delta or less severe than Omicron. I believe health officials are going to have to keep learning and revising what they tell the public about COVID variants.


----------



## chic (Jan 29, 2022)

Irwin said:


> It couldn't have been as politically divisive. Our country hasn't been this bad since the Civil War, and we could very well be verging on another civil war. Everything is political these days. Facts are now political. Like Stephen Colbert said: "Reality has a liberal bias." While he said it as a joke, there's truth in it. If you don't spin facts to the right, you're considered a liberal. That's how bad it's gotten.


Because we live under corporatism now. It thrives on making us waste time fighting each other instead of the oligarchy doing this to us.


----------



## Brookswood (Jan 29, 2022)

Sunny said:


> Sigh.  He's a quack, Chic.


From what I know Dr. Malone has overstated his credentials. But, the other side has been guilty of trying to shut-up anybody who disagrees with them, even knowledgeable medical people who have some facts and logic to back them up.  Thus, Dr. Malone has some good company though he himself is suspect in my opinion.    

The recent kerfuffle at Spotify where some artists are pulling their music because they disagree with Joe Rogan is as great example of the "let's shut up anybody who disagrees with me" attitude of many people.   Personally, I don't think anybody should take any entertainer, social media host, athlete, politician etc. seriously in regards to medical advice. They are no smarter than most of us who post right here. Just because they are famous doesn't mean they really know. 

But, trying to shut up the other side just gives them more energy and makes their followers dig in even deeper.  Covid and how to manage it has a lot of nuances.   Most of these *public figures* are sadly lacking in understanding the nuances.


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Jan 29, 2022)

One more public figure bit the dust.

BREAKING: ⁦
@KIRONewsradio has been able to confirm Trooper LaMay died after a battle with Covid. He famously quit over vaccine mandates, saying in a viral video in his last WSP radio transmission that “Governor Inslee can kiss my a**.” He was 50. ⁦

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/robe...ovid-19-washington_n_61f4d1d4e4b04f9a12bd8084


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> From what I know Dr. Malone has overstated his credentials. But, the other side has been guilty of trying to shut-up anybody who disagrees with them, even knowledgeable medical people who have some facts and logic to back them up.  Thus, Dr. Malone has some good company though he himself is suspect in my opinion.
> 
> The recent kerfuffle at Spotify where some artists are pulling their music because they disagree with Joe Rogan is as great example of the "let's shut up anybody who disagrees with me" attitude of many people.   Personally, I don't think anybody should take any entertainer, social media host, athlete, politician etc. seriously in regards to medical advice. They are no smarter than most of us who post right here. Just because they are famous doesn't mean they really know.
> 
> But, trying to shut up the other side just gives them more energy and makes their followers dig in even deeper.  Covid and how to manage it has a lot of nuances.   Most of these *public figures* are sadly lacking in understanding the nuances.


I agree with you that public figures having credentials of medical advice is ridiculous and they should not be looked upon for advice any more then myself or anyone else that doesn't have medical credentials. 

A person can choose to put their faith in Dr. Malone or Dr, Fauci as obviously they has medical experience. Whether you choose to agree with one or the other is up to you. If you choose to follow the advice from either one of them you also must deal with any consequences that may come about from anything they say as well. That comes along with it. That is why I choose not to listen to any of that and just to focus on what is staring me right in my face. I also have the luxury of having a husband who works in a hospital setting so I can trust what he is telling me is going on there is the truth. When I hear the hospitals are in crisis because more and more Covid cases are filling the beds then it is common sense to me that this is a serious situation we are dealing with and I need to take all the safety precautions I can to limit the chances of getting sick. Things like that is what I watch not what one person is saying over another. In the beginning of all this I did spend a lot of time listening to all the medical experts on this and what I got from it was they seemed like they were making these claims and then a month later it would change. So that went out the window for me and I started just watching what was happening to make my decisions.


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 29, 2022)

Sunny said:


> Here's part of an article in the Washington Post about him:
> 
> Malone argued Sunday that the omicron variant “is destroying the approved narrative that the vaccines are safe and effective,” ignoring last week’s CDC notice that vaccine boosters were preventing serious illness from the omicron variant of the coronavirus, which causes the disease covid-19. He also discouraged people from getting vaccinated and pushed instead for natural immunity, which, as emergency physician Leana S. Wen wrote for The Post in August, is dangerous.
> 
> ...





AnnieA said:


> It's wrong of Malone to tell people who have never contracted Covid-19 to avoid the vaccine in favor of natural immunity.  It is also wrong of Fauci et al to discount natural immunity in previously recovered individuals.
> 
> Had our pharmaceutical dollar driven medical culture recognized both when study after study began coming in showing the benefits and limitations of each type of immunity in terms of real world efficacy, Covid-19 would not be so controversial.
> 
> ...


The problem with that Washington Post article (and some others, too) is that it omits some details that Malone talked about, such as age and other factors of those most vulnerable to mortality with covid, and that the safety and efficacy of vaccines that use dead virus may be superior to the mRNA vaccine. 

Basically, Malone's stance on the mRNA vaccine is that it wasn't ready for release because it needed more thorough tests and trials, and he doubts it's as safe and effective as conventional vaccines.


----------



## Irwin (Jan 29, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> One more public figure bit the dust.
> 
> BREAKING: ⁦
> @KIRONewsradio has been able to confirm Trooper LaMay died after a battle with Covid. He famously quit over vaccine mandates, saying in a viral video in his last WSP radio transmission that “Governor Inslee can kiss my a**.” He was 50. ⁦
> ...


He may be dead, but at least he stuck to his principles.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 29, 2022)

chic said:


> What exactly do you and @Sunny disagree with that Dr. Malone has said? I'd enjoy hearing Your opinions and not the parroting of govt. narrative.


First of all, I have never parroted any government narratives.  Also, unlike you, I'm not unreasonably paranoid against our government because I don't fall for ridiculous conspiracies.  Not wasting any more time with you and this quack, you have enough information that you have chosen to ignore, your loss not mine.  You can continue to follow people like him, Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson  Steve Bannon, or whatever other nutters you admire.  Keep the scary boogeyment under your bed at night like Dr. Fauci, the CDC, big pharma, deep state, bad gubmint, etc.  Good luck.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 29, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> One more public figure bit the dust.
> 
> BREAKING: ⁦
> @KIRONewsradio has been able to confirm Trooper LaMay died after a battle with Covid. He famously quit over vaccine mandates, saying in a viral video in his last WSP radio transmission that “Governor Inslee can kiss my a**.” He was 50. ⁦
> ...


He's not the first and won't be the last.  We can only hope that people learn from this and don't make the same foolish mistake.


----------



## chic (Jan 29, 2022)

Sunny said:


> Here's part of an article in the Washington Post about him:
> 
> Malone argued Sunday that the omicron variant “is destroying the approved narrative that the vaccines are safe and effective,” ignoring last week’s CDC notice that vaccine boosters were preventing serious illness from the omicron variant of the coronavirus, which causes the disease covid-19. He also discouraged people from getting vaccinated and pushed instead for natural immunity, which, as emergency physician Leana S. Wen wrote for The Post in August, is dangerous.
> 
> ...


Well, the Washington Post wouldn't be kind to him as the same publication was used to discredit the three authors of the Great Barrington declaration. However, Omicron has destroyed the vaccine's reputation for being safe and effective because everybody has contracted covid now, just about, and I recall Dr. F. saying recently that everybody would contract covid. From being exposed to Dr. Malone's dissertations previously, I do know he believes in the possibility of ADE from too many vaccines and from the course this pandemic has taken, I'd have to say he is right about that. The Canadian article I will have to look into because I'm unfamiliar with it. But I am familiar with seeing athletes drop dead on the field. Now we're being told myocarditis is normal in young males?


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> In the beginning of all this I did spend a lot of time listening to all the medical experts on this and what I got from it was they seemed like they were making these claims and then a month later it would change. So that went out the window for me and I started just watching what was happening to make my decisions.


I'm like you and I have tried to follow the data and information and make the best decisions for myself.  To be fair, this was a new coronavirus for us in the US and even well respected experts like Dr. Fauci were still learning by observing and  sharing what he thought would benefit the health of the country.  With the new variants emerging and so many unvaccinated, it's been difficult for all involved.  I'm glad your husband is a trusted source of some information for you, that must be comforting at times.  I hope you both stay healthy during this pandemic, I'm thankful my husband and I have not been infected and are fully vaccinated and boosted.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

SeaBreeze said:


> I'm like you and I have tried to follow the data and information and make the best decisions for myself.  To be fair, this was a new coronavirus for us in the US and even well respected experts like Dr. Fauci were still learning by observing and  sharing what he thought would benefit the health of the country.  With the new variants emerging and so many unvaccinated, it's been difficult for all involved.  I'm glad your husband is a trusted source of some information for you, that must be comforting at times.  I hope you both stay healthy during this pandemic, I'm thankful my husband and I have not been infected and are fully vaccinated and boosted.


I hope the same for you and your husband. Regardless of what many say with people pulling back , I will not be. I will continue to wear my mask and do what I have to do to feel safe until I feel comfortable enough for myself. No one , including Dr. Fauci, Joe Biden, Dr. Malone or whoever is going to make these health decisions for me.


----------



## Shero (Jan 29, 2022)

chic said:


> Because we live under corporatism now. It thrives on making us waste time fighting each other instead of the oligarchy doing this to us.


When you wrote that, did it make any sense to you? How much sense does it make to anybody else? Another gem of non-sense.
.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

Shero said:


> When you wrote that, did it make any sense to you? How much sense does it make to anybody else? Another gem of non-sense.
> .


I happened to read that post several times and finally decided not to respond because it didn't make any sense to me either. I thought I was the only one.


----------



## Shero (Jan 29, 2022)

chic said:


> Well, the Washington Post wouldn't be kind to him as the same publication was used to discredit the three authors of the Great Barrington declaration. However, Omicron has destroyed the vaccine's reputation for being safe and effective because everybody has contracted covid now, just about, and I recall Dr. F. saying recently that everybody would contract covid. From being exposed to Dr. Malone's dissertations previously, I do know he believes in the possibility of ADE from too many vaccines and from the course this pandemic has taken, I'd have to say he is right about that. The Canadian article I will have to look into because I'm unfamiliar with it. But I am familiar with seeing athletes drop dead on the field. Now we're being told myocarditis is normal in young males?



I think you are fully aware of the score Chic, BUT, you will go to any lengths to justify your refusal to have the vaccine.

Childish behavior, reminds me of a kindy kid who stomps on the lollipop her friend is eating, if I can't have it, you can't have it. I am on to you and you know it!!
.


----------



## Shero (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I happened to read that post several times and finally decided not to respond because it didn't make any sense to me either. I thought I was the only one.


It is my opinion that Chic knows she speaks non-sense, but doggedly carries on. Her only motive is to justify her bizarre denial to have the vaccine..
.


----------



## AnnieA (Jan 29, 2022)

Irwin said:


> It couldn't have been as politically divisive. Our country hasn't been this bad since the Civil War, and we could very well be verging on another civil war. ....





chic said:


> Because we live under corporatism now. It thrives on making us waste time fighting each other instead of the oligarchy doing this to us.





Shero said:


> When you wrote that, did it make any sense to you? How much sense does it make to anybody else? Another gem of non-sense.
> .



Sequence of posts above...

@chic  was answering Irwin's post about how politically divisive the US is.  Her post makes perfect sense in response to his.  You no longer live in the US and are not bombarded by the deliberate herding into one or the other of the two major ideological worldviews.

.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 29, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> One more public figure bit the dust.
> 
> BREAKING: ⁦
> @KIRONewsradio has been able to confirm Trooper LaMay died after a battle with Covid. He famously quit over vaccine mandates, saying in a viral video in his last WSP radio transmission that “Governor Inslee can kiss my a**.” He was 50. ⁦
> ...


I guess Governor Inslee can kiss his ass, but it will in a coffin.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 29, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> From what I know Dr. Malone has overstated his credentials. But, the other side has been guilty of trying to shut-up anybody who disagrees with them, even knowledgeable medical people who have some facts and logic to back them up.  Thus, Dr. Malone has some good company though he himself is suspect in my opinion.
> 
> The recent kerfuffle at Spotify where some artists are pulling their music because they disagree with Joe Rogan is as great example of the "let's shut up anybody who disagrees with me" attitude of many people.   Personally, I don't think anybody should take any entertainer, social media host, athlete, politician etc. seriously in regards to medical advice. They are no smarter than most of us who post right here. Just because they are famous doesn't mean they really know.
> 
> But, trying to shut up the other side just gives them more energy and makes their followers dig in even deeper.  Covid and how to manage it has a lot of nuances.   Most of these *public figures* are sadly lacking in understanding the nuances.


I am against "cancel culture" but Joe Rogan has spewed completely indefensible lies about Covid vaccines.  Neil Young and Joni Mitchell have simply chosen to remove their music from Spotify because they believe he is harming those who listen to his podcasts.  He was the host of Fear Factor.  Have you ever watched it?  It was TV for morons.  That now makes him an expert in how to treat Covid?

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...-remove-music-vaccine-disinformation-1290020/


----------



## Irwin (Jan 29, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I am against "cancel culture" but Joe Rogan has spewed completely indefensible lies about Covid vaccines.  Neil Young and Joni Mitchell have simply chosen to remove their music from Spotify because they believe he is harming those who listen to his podcasts.  He was the host of Fear Factor.  Have you ever watched it?  It was TV for morons.  That now makes him an expert in how to treat Covid?
> 
> https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...-remove-music-vaccine-disinformation-1290020/


Niels Lofgren joined the movement. Good for him! (Who's he?)

Just kidding. He had a hit back in the '70s I think, and is also a guitar player in Bruce Springsteen's band.

Too bad so many Classic Rock artists have sold their catalogs or they'd be able to join in the movement. This is like the anti-war movement of the '60s and '70s. Kill whitey! Oh, wait... wrong cause. Never trust anyone over 30! Power to the people!


----------



## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Also, research scientists asked for the cadavers or tissue samples from cadavers but hospitals weren't allowing it, which is astonishing to me. But finally, like late last year, they started allowing researchers to have actual tissue samples and also they finally started letting certain medical universities do autopsies too. If both those things had been allowed early on, I think lives would have been saved. And policy-makers would have been able to come up with better strategies. This is why some people wonder of they didn't _want_ to.


^^^ Thinking people look at the _whole_ picture.  And also consider possible ulterior motives.


----------



## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Brookswood said:


> I am open to new information.  Alas, when it comes to the media, both the liberal and conservative sides are driven first and foremost by *ratings and profits*. Truth is an unfortunate  victim, collateral damage.    The more flash and gas a source exhibits, the less I trust them.


You don't trust a source with _"Flash & gas?"_
Well, you can trust me.  I dress casually & don't overdo beans.


----------



## chic (Jan 30, 2022)

Shero said:


> I think you are fully aware of the score Chic, BUT, you will go to any lengths to justify your refusal to have the vaccine.
> 
> Childish behavior, reminds me of a kindy kid who stomps on the lollipop her friend is eating, if I can't have it, you can't have it. I am on to you and you know it!!
> .


You know nothing about me or my reasons. You've only been here a few months. You're no sage of wisdom and you can't see people's hearts, minds or motives. Now who is childish?


----------



## chic (Jan 30, 2022)

SeaBreeze said:


> First of all, I have never parroted any government narratives.  Also, unlike you, I'm not unreasonably paranoid against our government because I don't fall for ridiculous conspiracies.  Not wasting any more time with you and this quack, you have enough information that you have chosen to ignore, your loss not mine.  You can continue to follow people like him, Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson  Steve Bannon, or whatever other nutters you admire.  Keep the scary boogeyment under your bed at night like Dr. Fauci, the CDC, big pharma, deep state, bad gubmint, etc.  Good luck.


Good luck to you also. It may shock you to learn I don't like Steve Bannon or Tucker Carlson and listened to Joe only when he had Dr. Malone on his show.  Indeed I do not trust my government anymore because it is no longer run by the people but by major "profit driven" corporations.

I have a ton of snow to shovel so I am not going to argue on this at length. Time will tell which of us has been correct in their assumptions and actions regarding this "pandemic". Peace.


----------



## suds00 (Jan 30, 2022)

a trained doctor can be a trusted advisor.    otherwise you make your own decisions based on accumulated knowledge.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 30, 2022)

Hey guys, I disagree with a lot of what @chic has to say, but I like her and feel like I learn from her posts.  

I may question what she says from time to time, but not her motives or integrity.  I think she is a good lady.


----------



## Don M. (Jan 30, 2022)

This Covid pandemic has created all sorts of "Media" coverage.  Some of it is reasonable, while some of it is just plain "extreme".  I've spent far more time than usual watching some TV during this cold weather, and I'm amazed at some of the "nonsense" that these TV channels broadcast.  A few days ago, I tuned into a channel called "Newsmax", and was surprised at some of the stuff they were saying.  Generally, most people consider Fox News as being a bit biased, but this Newsmax makes Fox seem almost Left Wing by comparison.  

If people are accepting this biased reporting, it's no wonder that there is so much divisiveness surrounding Covid and the vaccines.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 30, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Hey guys, I disagree with a lot of what @chic has to say, but I like her and feel like I learn from her posts.
> 
> I may question what she says from time to time, but not her motives or integrity.  I think she is a good lady.


You are correct. Just because someone has a difference in beliefs and their thoughts may be different from yours in this case about Covid and the vaccines does not mean that they are a horrible person. Like @chic stated most of us here and I am one of those people don't know her at all other from what she posts on here. Her beliefs about Covid and the vaccines are part of her and true to her sure, but that is just a small part of who she is. Far from what she is as a whole. In my faith I try my hardest not to judge others and yes I slip up and do it from time time because we all make mistakes, but honestly everyone on here has there good points and also some faults to go along with them.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 30, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I slip up and do it from time time because we all make mistakes


Don't we all!


----------



## Packerjohn (Jan 30, 2022)

Nope!  It is not going to end; not if Big Pharma has anything to say about it.  They must be laughing all the way to the bank for almost the last 2 years.   Next is BA2 vaccines.  Big Pharma will be singing,  "Roll on, roll on, that's how the money rolls on, rolls on.  Bless them!


----------



## Don M. (Jan 30, 2022)

Here's the "Cure" for Covid.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/anti-vaxxer-tells-supporters-covid-195908571.html

I can imagine how much money this clown is making from his "followers" on social media.  Maybe he can start marketing his urine for a huge profit.


----------



## win231 (Jan 30, 2022)

No.  Omicron already has a "Cousin - "BA-2."  Or, so we're told.......
Boosters!  More Boosters!
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr9ImCzSvdhlPoAcDpXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNncTEEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Nj/RV=2/RE=1643625268/RO=10/RU=https://news.yahoo.com/omicrons-variant-cousin-ba-2-022022694.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall/RK=2/RS=3mIk8w6ATFEqZHJoF8pkz4lQVq4-


----------



## Irwin (Jan 30, 2022)

Here's a bit of good news:

*Texas scientists’ new Covid-19 vaccine is cheaper, easier to make and patent-free *
A new Covid-19 vaccine is being developed by Texas scientists using a decades-old conventional method that will make the production and distribution cheaper and more accessible for countries most affected by the pandemic and where new variants are likely to originate due to low inoculation rates.
...

“Pretty much anybody that can make hepatitis B vaccines or has the capacity to produce microbial-based protein like bacteria or yeast, can replicate what we do,” Bottazzi said.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/15/corbevax-covid-vaccine-texas-scientists


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 30, 2022)




----------

