# I miss America



## squatting dog (Jul 26, 2022)




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## hollydolly (Jul 26, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> View attachment 231264


Ditto the UK.... sooo much different to the place I grew up.. and even right up until just 15 or so years ago.. I won't say the reason why.. but I'm sure many can guess


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## oldman (Jul 26, 2022)

I agree. It’s hard to believe how far down the ladder our country has slid in just a short amount of time.


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## Pepper (Jul 26, 2022)

I don't miss THIS America


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## Paco Dennis (Jul 26, 2022)

Things were so much simpler back in the 50's and early 60's but after that the world became more complicated each decade/year/day. We still need to remember to stop and smell the roses....enjoy the simple things.

I thought of this from the title of the OP...( joke )

"NO! I miss America"


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## SeniorBen (Jul 26, 2022)

Maybe we should have taken better care of the environment.


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## Sassycakes (Jul 26, 2022)

I really think the whole world is going crazy not just America.


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## feywon (Jul 26, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Maybe we should have taken better care of the environment.



Among other things, like each other.  Can't say much more without venturing into unauthorized territory.


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## Don M. (Jul 26, 2022)

I remember some good times....and some pretty bad times over the past decades.  Things change a bit every year, and trying to keep up with all the "technology" being thrust upon us today can be a bit frustrating.  My only personal concern is being able to stay fit and healthy enough to continue to "function".  
I am Not optimistic about the world our grandkids will be faced with in another few decades.  Between Overpopulation and Climate Change, I think the past few decades will be the historical "peak" for humanity, and things will only continue to decline in coming years.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 26, 2022)

Nostalgia is always warm and fuzzy.  We choose to remember the happy times. But there never was a utopian past. Rape, murders, crime, riots, famines, disease, drugs, immigration, and the rest were just as prevalent in any other time, as they are today. It was a "simpler time" means that we didn't understand as much of how the universe works, not that it didn't affect us. Today's crappy new world is tomorrow's "Golden Age".


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## Geezer Garage (Jul 26, 2022)

True to a point, but I think that the rate of technological advancement, has put us in new territory. Social evolution is a painfully slow process, and we are running out of time. In addition, politically we have had some dark times in the past as a country, but never anything as messed up, and as threatening to our survival as we are seeing now.



fuzzybuddy said:


> Nostalgia is always warm and fuzzy. We choose to remember the happy times. But there never was a utopian past. Rape, murders, crime, riots, famines, disease, drugs, immigration, and the rest were just a prevalent in any other time, as they are today. It was a "simpler time" means that we didn't understand as much of how the universe works, not that it didn't affect us. Today's crappy new world is tomorrow's "Golden Age".


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 26, 2022)

IMO it’s about age not opportunity.

The important things about the America we knew still exist,  but most of us are too old, too tired and too comfortable to see them.

Young people are just as wide eyed and optimistic about their future as we were.


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## bingo (Jul 26, 2022)

we have to let it go


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## JustBonee (Jul 26, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO it’s about age not opportunity.
> 
> The important things about the America we knew still exist,  but most of us are too old, too tired and too comfortable to see them.
> 
> Young people are just as wide eyed and optimistic about their future as we were.






True ..   We are living in   our kids world now   ...   We just need to face up to it.


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## Meanderer (Jul 26, 2022)

It seems like every thread with "America" in the title, morphs into a Political thread.  I hope that is not the case here.


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## Pepper (Jul 26, 2022)

If 'America' is used as an excuse to wax poetic about those glorious times that were unfair to many people than that's what you get.


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## Timewise 60+ (Jul 26, 2022)

You all sound like my Grandparents...get it!  

Each generation has seen a lot of change from what they grew up with.  Most preferred it the way they remember it, but most also recognize that many changes we have seen are for the better, and some of the changes, not so much!


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## squatting dog (Jul 26, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Things were so much simpler back in the 50's and early 60's but after that the world became more complicated each decade/year/day. We still need to remember to stop and smell the roses....enjoy the simple things.
> 
> I thought of this from the title of the OP...( joke )
> 
> "NO! I miss America"



Now that you got me thinking, I came up with this...


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## SeniorBen (Jul 26, 2022)

Before the Friedman Doctrine and the _money is all that matters_ philosophy and policy, this country was indeed a better place.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Jul 26, 2022)

I sometimes become nostalgic about the America of yesteryear, but did it really exist? As I have grown older, I assumed things were changing, but then realized it is my perception of who we are and the actual reality. My worldview has changed, not the world.


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## feywon (Jul 26, 2022)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> I sometimes become nostalgic about the America of yesteryear, but did it really exist? As I have grown older, I assumed things were changing, but then realized it is my perception of who we are and the actual reality. My worldview has changed, not the world.


Astute observation, one not everyone able ro recognize.


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## hollydolly (Jul 26, 2022)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> I sometimes become nostalgic about the America of yesteryear, but did it really exist? As I have grown older, I assumed things were changing, but then realized it is my perception of who we are and the actual reality. My worldview has changed, not the world.


In the UK... it's not MY perception things have changed almost beyond recognition .. and the people too...


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## Ceege (Jul 26, 2022)

Life in this world will never be good until everyone, regardless of gender, age, race, religion, & ****** orientation are considered to be equal.  Unfortunately, that will never come to be.  Too many people need to feel better than someone else.  Need to have power over others.  

Reminds be of a political quote by Lyndon Johnson:  “If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket." 

We can only live our lives in our own little world and treat others as valued equals to make our own personal lives better.


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## Nathan (Jul 26, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Nostalgia is always warm and fuzzy.  We choose to remember the happy times. But there never was a utopian past. Rape, murders, crime, riots, famines, disease, drugs, immigration, and the rest were just as prevalent in any other time, as they are today. It was a "simpler time" means that we didn't understand as much of how the universe works, not that it didn't affect us. Today's crappy new world is tomorrow's "Golden Age".


Nailed it!   Aside from technology it's the same old s#!t show, it's just that we all are more aware...


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## Judycat (Jul 26, 2022)

My dad missed the sound of the horse and buggy and the way kerosene lamps made shadows on the wall.  Same old stuff.  Guess former cave people missed not having to clean everything because back then everything was made of dirt.


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## hollydolly (Jul 26, 2022)

Judycat said:


> My dad missed the sound of the horse and buggy and the way kerosene lamps made shadows on the wall.  Same old stuff.  Guess former cave people missed not having to clean everything because back then everything was made of dirt.


well I miss people being polite. I miss people not attacking each other with knives and guns.. I miss people not being snowflakes and taking offence over everything.. and I miss the crime level not being as high as it is, and  I miss the police fighting crime...


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## oldman (Jul 26, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Nostalgia is always warm and fuzzy.  We choose to remember the happy times. But there never was a utopian past. Rape, murders, crime, riots, famines, disease, drugs, immigration, and the rest were just as prevalent in any other time, as they are today. It was a "simpler time" means that we didn't understand as much of how the universe works, not that it didn't affect us. Today's crappy new world is tomorrow's "Golden Age".


I respectfully disagree. We may have had some of these items mentioned, but it was never as prevalent back in the 50's and 60's. 

https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm


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## Pepper (Jul 26, 2022)

I miss being young and I don't care about the circumstances!


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## ElCastor (Jul 26, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> well I miss people being polite. I miss people not attacking each other with knives and guns.. I miss people not being snowflakes and taking offence over everything.. and I miss the crime level not being as high as it is, and  I miss the police fighting crime...


London? Knives and guns, taking offense at everything, crime, and police with one arm tied behind their back? Yikes! You just described Big City USA.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 26, 2022)

oldman said:


> I respectfully disagree. We may have had some of these items mentioned, but it was never as prevalent back in the 50's and 60's.
> 
> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm


Are you forgetting the Korean War, that little war in French Viet Nam, "WWIII "over the Suez Canal. The Red Scare. Israeli/Arab wars, the breakup of the British Empire. the six month 1958 labor strike, race riots, polio, "juvenile delinquency", car theft, and of course nobody was murdered during the 50/60s. I think we look back with thick rose colored glasses. If you look at the pic squatting dog posted, it's not a real pic, it looks like a painting. That is not a true representation of the 1950s. Does it show the kid getting measles, getting his bike stolen, breaking his leg, being late for school, etc?
In the 50s/60s, we  were kids and didn't know or understand what was going on. We were sheltered by our age and our parents.


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## Pepper (Jul 26, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Are you forgetting the Korean War, that little war in French Viet Nam, "WWIII "over the Suez Canal. The Red Scare. Israeli/Arab wars, the breakup of the British Empire. the six month 1958 labor strike, race riots, polio, "juvenile delinquency", car theft, and of course nobody was murdered during the 50/60s. I think we look back with thick rose colored glasses. If you look at the pic squatting dog posted, it's not a real pic, it looks like a painting. *That is not a true representation of the 1950s. Does it show the kid getting measles, getting his bike stolen, breaking his leg, being late for school, etc?*
> In the 50s/60s, we  were kids and didn't know or understand what was going on. We were sheltered by our age and our parents.


Does it show Emmett Till being lynched?


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## Patricia (Jul 26, 2022)

God Bless America, 
Home Sweet Home.


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## Meanderer (Jul 26, 2022)

I miss Ernie Ford!


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## Packerjohn (Jul 26, 2022)

I miss the Canada I used to know.  I mean the times when I was a kid. That was the time before the present craze of digging up 100 year old graves and pointing figures at dead people.  That was the time before our leader promised us "sunny ways" if we voted for him.  That was the time we were forever arguing how to label our toilets so that they were all inclusive.  (Men/women is now not go enough).  That was a time when politicians were not shamed for not attending and supporting Pride Month.  It was a time when statues of our founding leader were not painted with red paint or pushed over and broken.  It was a time when the newspaper came once/week and everyone believed what was written.  It was a time when CBC was the only channel on TV rather than the hundreds we  have now.  It was a time no  one heard of robocalls, 24 hour news, 7 minutes of advertising on TV, zombie like people walking and starring at their smartphones, TV broadcasters did not have to be "colour balanced" and no one heard of shopping on Sunday.

Oh ya, there were bad things too but hey, I don't miss those.  LOL


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## HoneyNut (Jul 26, 2022)

I think when things get really bad people might start to try to stop climate change getting worse.  Might be too late, but considering how some people want to go try to live on the moon and Mars, there will be some people who will adapt to a hotter lower-oxygen climate, or if the ocean current stops, then perhaps Canadians, Americans and Europeans will somehow survive in a glacial ice-age environment.  
Didn't we go down bad paths in the past and then manage to change direction - like when I was young there was a lot of smog and air pollution but eventually (thanks I guess to the oldest baby boomers?) we got the air fixed.
I am really worried about the bugs tho, I thought it was only in Nebraska that they started using different pesticides that killed off all my bugs back home, but I drove from Ohio to New York yesterday and only one bug hit my windshield, I am really shocked (and worried for the bugs).


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## Liberty (Jul 26, 2022)

Think most of us were so busy keeping body and soul together, we didn't even know or see much beyond our limited area.  With only 3 tv channels and no internet, we didn't have news screaming at us 24/7.  Not hard to be nostalgic about that.  

Now, well...think I'll go on down to the gas station & have myself a soda pop...then go on over to Thelma Lou's and watch some tv.


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## Lavinia (Jul 26, 2022)

Why is it that when anyone complains about things deteriorating, they are made to feel guilty? In many ways, life WAS better in the past. Think of the problems around today which were rare in the past. The very fact that suicide is so common now indicates the feeling of hopelessness which many people feel today.


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## Pepper (Jul 26, 2022)

Glad I'm keeping you so amused @Meanderer 
Anything to get a laugh out of you.


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## Meanderer (Jul 26, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Glad I'm keeping you so amused @Meanderer
> Anything to get a laugh out of you.


Thanks


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## Pepper (Jul 26, 2022)

Not many folks find Emmett Till so funny @Meanderer.   Most unusual in fact.


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## Aunt Bea (Jul 26, 2022)

Maybe America was a better place before Al Gore invented the internet.


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## Alligatorob (Jul 26, 2022)

I think it is quite natural to long for the old days, people always have.  Childhood and early memories can be very comforting.  I feel the same.

However objectively looking at my world the only thing I see that really is worse is the population density, too many people.  That makes enjoying a lot of the outdoor things I like a bit harder, and of course adds to our environmental impact.

Otherwise I think things are probably mostly better now.  Not everything, but more than not.


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## Timewise 60+ (Jul 26, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> Why is it that when anyone complains about things deteriorating, they are made to feel guilty? In many ways, life WAS better in the past. Think of the problems around today which were rare in the past. The very fact that suicide is so common now indicates the feeling of hopelessness which many people feel today.


Guess you missed the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Bay of Pigs; we all were very worried about a nuclear way breaking out...When I was in high school, we had two classmates commit suicide, one was our high school football quarterback the other was my girlfriend's brother.  I am sure there were others, but it was not unusual back then at all.  Humans tend to forget bad things that happen in time, yet we also remember good things that happen.  This leads to each generation favoring the past of the current day.... but it may not be true!


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## IrisSenior (Jul 26, 2022)

I am just happy to be alive right now!


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## Meanderer (Jul 26, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Not many folks find Emmett Till so funny @Meanderer.   Most unusual in fact.


Good post....guess I over-reached.


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## Gaer (Jul 26, 2022)

Hope this fits with bringing back America.
Law enforcement needs their power back.
We need to reinforce their liability shield again.
We have to stand behind law enforcement,
take back our streets from the drug addicts.
We have to prosecute crimes.
We have to keep hope in our hearts that 
America will come back.
Things are so bad that we want to give up
on our nation, but we can't.
We have to protect ALL our people from
lawlessness.  Fund police.  Protect  them.
Those of us that remember how  great
America used to be,  have to keep trying, 
if not for us, for future generations.
Don't ya think?


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## HoneyNut (Jul 26, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> When I was in high school, we had two classmates commit suicide


That reminded me of a classmate I had in 8th grade, he died from leukemia, but I think nowadays the situation is much better and most children survive cancer.


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## Alligatorob (Jul 26, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> The very fact that suicide is so common now indicates the feeling of hopelessness which many people feel today.


Suicide is awful, and I agree it often comes from a feeling of hopelessness.

However it is not more common today that historically, here is a link to a good article on suicide in your neck of the woods:
Suicide in England and Wales 1861–2007: a time-trends analysis

In reality suicide is probably going down more than the statistics indicate.  I think historically it was more common and easier to hide suicide as the cause of death.


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## hollydolly (Jul 26, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Guess you missed the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Bay of Pigs; we all were very worried about a nuclear way breaking out...When I was in high school, we had two classmates commit suicide, one was our high school football quarterback the other was my girlfriend's brother.  I am sure there were others, but it was not unusual back then at all.  Humans tend to forget bad things that happen in time, yet we also remember good things that happen.  This leads to each generation favoring the past of the current day.... but it may not be true!


We're in England.. the Cuban Crisis or the Bay of pigs had nothing to do with us in the UK... plus we were  little children in '62...


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## Alligatorob (Jul 26, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> We're in England.. the Cuban Crisis or the Bay of pigs had nothing to do with us in the UK... plus we were little children in '62...


If the crisis had started a nuclear war I think the UK would likely have been targeted.  I remember the missile crisis very well, I was 10, probably 2 years older than you.  However I was in Florida and we were pretty sure we were at the top of the target list.  

We even practiced emergency evacuations from school to home to be ready in the event of an invasion.  Everyone who could was putting a fallout shelter in their yards.  It was a stressful time.  Hard to say how close we really got to a nuclear exchange, but at the time it felt quite close.


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## AnnieA (Jul 26, 2022)

@squatting dog   Did you grow up rural?  I'm beginning to believe that has a lot to do with it these days.   More than one source points to top military enlistment counties as rural.

Then there's this 2022 song by the soon to be superstars Chapel Hart--black rural reared Mississippi country trio. Thanks to progress in the state and the South in general, their upbringing is similar to what mine was in the 70s and they're still young enough not to be jaded yet.

Danica and Devynn Hart (sisters) and cousin Trea Swindle wrote the song and caption the youtube video with:  "Often times we as fellow Americans, brothers & sisters, like to focus on ALL the things and issues that make us different, BUT we challenge you today to stop and appreciate each other for all of the amazing things we ALL have in common!"


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## squatting dog (Jul 26, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> @squatting dog   Did you grow up rural?  I'm beginning to believe that has a lot to do with it these days.   More than one source points to top military enlistment counties as rural.
> 
> Then there's this 2022 song by the soon to be superstars Chapel Hart--black rural reared Mississippi country trio. Thanks to progress in the state and the South in general, their upbringing is similar to what mine was in the 70s and they're still young enough not to be jaded yet.
> 
> Danica and Devynn Hart (sisters) and cousin Trea Swindle wrote the song and caption the youtube video with:  "Often times we as fellow Americans, brothers & sisters, like to focus on ALL the things and issues that make us different, BUT we challenge you today to stop and appreciate each other for all of the amazing things we ALL have in common!"


Was born and spent part of my younger years in NYC. and later, left home and moved my butt to Vermont to work on a dairy farm so I guess I'm kind of both. The source about military enlistment may be correct, but, while I did enlist while in Vermont, I have no doubt I'd have done the same in New  York.


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## AnnieA (Jul 26, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Was born and spent part of my younger years in NYC. and later, left home and moved my butt to Vermont to work on a dairy farm so I guess I'm kind of both. The source about military enlistment may be correct, but, while I did enlist while in Vermont, I have no doubt I'd have done the same in New  York.



Thank you for not just your service, but your enlistment! The stats I've seen about rural counties enlistments are more recent in the all volunteer era. I've seen the spin that "recruiters are targeting rural" implying those enlisting are doing so out of poverty, but that's not the majority of rural enlistment in this area.  Most are doing it because they still believe there's something to fight for.  When this demographic no longer believes that, we're in a real mess and I'm not sure we're too far away from that.

What made me wonder about a rural background was the OP fishing pic.  People are still living like that around here.  That and the song I posted ...if you didn't watch it, do!


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## dseag2 (Jul 26, 2022)

I grew up in the 60's and 70's.  Although I had a pretty good life, there were some major issues I look back on that make me think those weren't "the good old days":

We used to visit a cafeteria that only allowed Black people to carry trays, not dine in the restaurant.  One night, there were Black people laying in the streets outside the cafeteria in protest.  I was just a kid.  I had no idea what was happening, but I knew it wasn't right.

I went to Junior High during the days of "integration".  Instead of going to a school near our neighborhood, I was bussed across town to a mostly Black/Hispanic school where the various races were not ready to co-mingle.  There were riots every day at lunchtime.  No one could go to the bathroom alone for fear of getting their head dunked in the toilet.  It was difficult for me to focus on my education due to fear. 

As a gay kid in the 70's, I was continually made fun of and ostracized.  There were times that I went home wishing I could commit suicide to end it all.  Fortunately, there were very few means of accomplishing it in those days.  I had a friend who suddenly disappeared, and I later learned he was abducted outside a bar, robbed and killed.  This was not a good time for me.

In the 80's, I lost quite a few friends to AIDs.  I went to too many funerals, and I'll leave it at that.

Anyway, I have a very different view of how America was in the "good old days".  Some will say those are just my issues, but some were everyone's issues.  We are divided these days, for sure, but I don't feel that America has gone down the tubes... I just feel the problems are different now.


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## john19485 (Jul 26, 2022)

I hated the Bad times , loved the good times, losing my wife Kim , and my friends , were one of the worse times in my life, it was like there was a knife in my heart for a long time, a lot of us here don't have that much time left, just hope that , my grandchildren have an easier time of it.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 27, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Rape, murders, crime, riots, famines, disease, drugs, immigration, and the rest were just as prevalent in any other time, as they are today.


No, that's not true. According to several decades of statistics, more people are violent, and the violence has become more violent. There was a gradual but significant decrease in murders (nationwide) from the tail end of the 90s to the mid 2000s, but those numbers shot back up again (in 2014, I think) and continued to climb.

Researchers in various fields blame the increase of violence on an increase in both acquired and organic mental illnesses caused by food, water, and air pollution, drugs, homelessness/the economic gap, exposure to violence in the media and entertainment, the breakdown of traditional family life, a poor mental health care system, a weakening educational system, and societal stresses.

They're probably not wrong.


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## Been There (Jul 27, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO it’s about age not opportunity.
> 
> The important things about the America we knew still exist,  but most of us are too old, too tired and too comfortable to see them.
> 
> *Young people are just as wide eyed and optimistic about their future as we were.*


Maybe so, but it's also possible that they see it as different version as the rest of us.


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## Been There (Jul 27, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Nostalgia is always warm and fuzzy.  We choose to remember the happy times. *But there never was a utopian past.* Rape, murders, crime, riots, famines, disease, drugs, immigration, and the rest were just as prevalent in any other time, as they are today. It was a "simpler time" means that we didn't understand as much of how the universe works, not that it didn't affect us. Today's crappy new world is tomorrow's "Golden Age".


Maybe not, but life was much simpler before we had so many people and all of this new technology. I may be younger than you, but I have done a lot of studying of the 40's and 50's. The U.S. did have crime, but not near the extent it is now. People have become open and blazon with their crimes today. Walk into a high priced store, smash a glass counter take what they want to fill their bags and then walk out without any consequences. Women are being raped openly as others walk by without intervention. Drug trafficking and human smuggling is going on right before our eyes and the government yawns and couldn't care less. No, the crimes of the past were not as prevalent as they are today. It's pretty sad when families begin to fight one another at Disney World because a family member returned to her place in line. Who would have thought? 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-family-refused-let-woman-cut-line-hers.html


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## Alligatorob (Jul 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> According to several decades of statistics, more people are violent, and the violence has become more violent.


Can you cite some of those studies? 

Perhaps they are recent and localized?  From what I have seen violence has greatly declined.  See for example https://slides.ourworldindata.org/war-and-violence/#/3  it shows a substantial and more or less continuous decline over the past 700 years or so.


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## Pepper (Jul 27, 2022)

More people=More violence, it's the percentages that matter.  Definitely more violence will occur when unwanted children are born.


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## hollydolly (Jul 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> No, that's not true. According to several decades of statistics, more people are violent, and the violence has become more violent. There was a gradual but significant decrease in murders (nationwide) from the tail end of the 90s to the mid 2000s, but those numbers shot back up again (in 2014, I think) and continued to climb.
> 
> Researchers in various fields blame the increase of violence on an increase in both acquired and organic mental illnesses caused by food, water, and air pollution, drugs, homelessness/the economic gap, exposure to violence in the media and entertainment, the breakdown of traditional family life, a poor mental health care system, a weakening educational system, and societal stresses.
> 
> They're probably not wrong.


I believe you. .. same thing happening here.


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## oldman (Jul 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Can you cite some of those studies?
> 
> Perhaps they are recent and localized?  From what I have seen violence has greatly declined.  See for example https://slides.ourworldindata.org/war-and-violence/#/3  it shows a substantial and more or less continuous decline over the past 700 years or so.


https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm


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## fuzzybuddy (Jul 27, 2022)

If you're a senior, in the 50s & 60s, you were a kid, teen, or 20+ during that era. You led a protected, sheltered life. You had no real responsibilities. And back then, you weren't worried about the crime rate, interest rates, GNP, housing,  retirement, or much else, besides yourself. So it's natural that nostalgia creates an idealic period. We haven't made any new sins, they are tens of thousands old, and the same ones we always had, even in the 50s & 60s.


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## Shalimar (Jul 27, 2022)

Been There said:


> Maybe not, but life was much simpler before we had so many people and all of this new technology. I may be younger than you, but I have done a lot of studying of the 40's and 50's. The U.S. did have crime, but not near the extent it is now. People have become open and blazon with their crimes today. Walk into a high priced store, smash a glass counter take what they want to fill their bags and then walk out without any consequences. Women are being raped openly as others walk by without intervention. Drug trafficking and human smuggling is going on right before our eyes and the government yawns and couldn't care less. No, the crimes of the past were not as prevalent as they are today. It's pretty sad when families begin to fight one another at Disney World because a family member returned to her place in line. Who would have thought?
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-family-refused-let-woman-cut-line-hers.html


Human trafficking is far from new. It was prevalent when I was a child. It was also very well hidden, as were most forms of abuse toward women and children, and, particularly, those of colour. My childhood was far from simple. My little friends and I were helpless, many of them died.

There was no recourse available. Many of those who had the power to intervene were part of the problem, including parents, and the safety nets were minimal, a great deal  of money could be made with very little risk. Denial was rampant. People simply didn’t want to believe such things were possible. With all its problems, I much prefer this world. If modern

technology had existed, many of those children would likely have survived, or, at least, their bodies might have been recovered. As it was, they simply joined the ranks of the disappeared. RIP


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## Alligatorob (Jul 27, 2022)

oldman said:


> https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm


Thanks, and your statistics do show that crime, including violent crime rates are higher today than in 1960.  However the trend since about 1990 has been down.  And 1960 was much less violent than most of human history.

In the bigger picture our crime rates are way down.  In 1700 the US murder rate was about 30 per 100,000, 20 per 100,000 in 1800, and by 1900 it fell below 10 ( Crime in the United States ).  According to your statistics it was 5 per 100,000 most recently, 2019.

Violence is awful, and we should do all we can to stop it completely.  But to really understand it I believe we need to recognize that humans are by nature quite violent.  Throughout our existence we were much more violent than we are today.  The relative safety we enjoy today is an anomaly not the norm.

History and the Decline of Human Violence


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## Shalimar (Jul 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Thanks, and your statistics do show that crime, including violent crime rates are higher today than in 1960.  However the trend since about 1990 has been down.  And 1960 was much less violent than most of human history.
> 
> In the bigger picture our crime rates are way down.  In 1700 the US murder rate was about 30 per 100,000, 20 per 100,000 in 1800, and by 1900 it fell below 10.  According to your statistics it was 5 per 100,000 in 2019.
> 
> ...


I concur. Violent, indeed. We are apex predators, and, unlike most other species,  we prey on our own, even our families.


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## oldman (Jul 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Thanks, and your statistics do show that crime, including violent crime rates are higher today than in 1960.  However the trend since about 1990 has been down.  And 1960 was much less violent than most of human history.
> 
> In the bigger picture our crime rates are way down.  In 1700 the US murder rate was about 30 per 100,000, 20 per 100,000 in 1800, and by 1900 it fell below 10.  According to your statistics it was 5 per 100,000 in 2019.
> 
> ...


I have to wonder what the next five years will look like when the 2020 riots will be included and the last two years, as well. The audacity of some people stealing, committing rape and other crimes on the streets and in subways openly have me perplexed. Before 2020, these crimes would have been handled differently. Now, the lawlessness has the U.S. looking like some other lesser safe countries on other continents.


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## SeniorBen (Jul 27, 2022)

Violent crime is relatively low right now, but it's currently trending upwards.


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## Patricia (Jul 27, 2022)

By late 1972 I was already moving into settled life in a very enjoyable way. My memories are especially good.


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## David777 (Jul 27, 2022)

Much nonsense being posted on this thread because it was so vaguely set up without understanding different perspectives.  The "I'm so homesick for the America we used to know", does not mean the nation, the world was not without serious problems but rather reflects on personal perspectives within isolated societal and cultural areas in which many of we more fortunate grew up within.  I could write several pages but will just tersely add the below.

The world given modern telecommunication and transportation is vastly more interconnected now. Ivy League elites, Wall Street, and their Western world wealth seeking global partners decided suddenly mixing together the planet's people of widely different races, political systems, cultures, history, and boundaries of acceptable freedoms, from across the planet would work for the sake of their increased wealth as a workable goal.  California became ground zero. Like a chicken with its head cut off, that failed.

Here in the USA, I can say that the world I grew up in during the 1950s and 1960s, Caucasian suburban California, is vastly different and much much worse.  During that same era, farm workers living in our Central Valley experienced a much less pleasant world.  Likewise in the South and in many eastern big cities, there was considerable racial discrimination.  In some areas, there was overwhelming dominating Christian religious consensus that allowed at some levels a very agreeable civil law abiding society.  In many areas one did not have to worry about crime because top to bottom people living in those places had relatively consistent cultural and societal values.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Can you cite some of those studies?
> 
> Perhaps they are recent and localized?  From what I have seen violence has greatly declined.  See for example https://slides.ourworldindata.org/war-and-violence/#/3  it shows a substantial and more or less continuous decline over the past 700 years or so.


oldman cited a good one (thanks, @oldman) 

The stats I looked at (months ago) were from several different states, a few on the east coast, some in the midwest, and Calif and Oregon, and were from their sheriff or police departments. These kind of stats are tricky because there are so many variables; like, some states put gun violence in a separate category and some don't, some categorize serial events separately, some don't, etc.

ourworldindata.org is an awesome website, but their stats are only as good as the sources. Looking stuff up and really studying it has become a regular hobby of mine over the past year, ever since my back started getting worse. I don't often save links, tho, and for this one I'd have to go way back in my search history. Then, I'm not sure I'd know it if I saw it.

But the gist was, compared to 50-60 years ago, while violent crime _per-capita_ is down, more people are violent - like, more of your seemingly normal, everyday people are committing violent acts - and the violent acts they are committing are more violent. Like, they're not just stabbing a victim until s/he's dead, they are torturing them, mincing them, and whatnot..."making a statement" as one observer put it.


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## SeniorBen (Jul 27, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Violent crime is relatively low right now, but it's currently trending upwards.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 27, 2022)

David777 said:


> Much nonsense being posted on this thread because it was so vaguely set up without understanding different perspectives.  The "I'm so homesick for the America we used to know", does not mean the nation, the world was not without serious problems but rather reflects on personal perspectives within isolated societal and cultural areas in which many of we more fortunate grew up within.  I could write several pages but will just tersely add the below.
> 
> The world given modern telecommunication and transportation is vastly more interconnected now. Ivy League elites, Wall Street, and their Western world wealth seeking global partners decided suddenly mixing together the planet's people of widely different races, political systems, cultures, history, and boundaries of acceptable freedoms, from across the planet would work for the sake of their increased wealth as a workable goal.  California would became ground zero. Like a chicken with its head cut off, that failed.
> 
> Here in the USA, I can say that the world I grew up in during the 1950s and 1960s, Caucasian suburban California, is vastly different and much much worse.  During that same era, farm workers living in our Central Valley experienced a much less pleasant world.  Likewise in the South and in many eastern big cities, there was considerable racial discrimination.  In some areas, there was overwhelming dominating Christian religious consensus that allowed at some levels a very agreeable civil law abiding society.  In many areas one did not have to worry about crime because top to bottom people living in those places had relatively consistent cultural and societal values.


Very true; my childhood was great! My wife's mom was a teenager during the same time period, and her childhood was not nearly as great.

That said, I wouldn't categorize any of these posts as "nonsense". They're people's observations. Some I can relate to, some I don't.


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## Shalimar (Jul 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> oldman cited a good one (thanks, @oldman)
> 
> The stats I looked at (months ago) were from several different states, a few on the east coast, some in the midwest, and Calif and Oregon, and were from their sheriff or police departments. These kind of stats are tricky because there are so many variables; like, some states put gun violence in a separate category and some don't, some categorize serial events separately, some don't, etc.
> 
> ...


In my experience, fifty years ago, it was simply easier to get away with such behaviour. Sadly, I know this all too well.


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## Alligatorob (Jul 27, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> In my experience, fifty years ago, it was simply easier to get away with such behaviour. Sadly, I know this all too well.


Unfortunately there is truth to that.  It makes looking at statistics a bit harder.


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## SeniorBen (Jul 27, 2022)

A big part of the problem with America is that a large segment of the population chooses to live in an alternate reality -- one created by big business to polarize our country so the rich can get richer and more powerful. That segment of the population completely disregards fact that don't conform to their world view.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 27, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> In my experience, fifty years ago, it was simply easier to get away with such behaviour. Sadly, I know this all too well.


Violent behavior, you mean? 50yrs ago, that depended on what type of community you lived in. That's true today as well, but it seems reasonable to me that there were way more tight-knit communities 50yrs ago than there are today. For instance, when I was a kid, small communities along the Sacramento River "pocket" area didn't tolerate criminal behavior, so it just didn't happen there. Young ladies and kids were safe, robberies didn't happen, etc.

Not true today. Those small communities grew into huge residential areas, Karen hates her neighbor, gangs popped up, and Bob's your uncle.

But it's true we're way better at solving crimes.


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## oldman (Jul 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Unfortunately there is truth to that.  It makes looking at statistics a bit harder.


I think what Shalimar may be referring to are domestic issues such as; domestic violence, wives and children being beaten in their home, minors being sexually abused, etc. Back in the day, people avoided being embarrassed by reporting these incidents.

We never knew what went on behind closed doors. In our small town, we had a lady up the street from our house that would have a black eye, broken wrist and other injuries from time to time. My mom would say, “I see Mrs. Smith got beaten again over the weekend.” She never reported it, but we all knew her husband was a drunk and smacked her and the kids around.


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## MrPants (Jul 27, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Anyway, I have a very different view of how America was in the "good old days".


Pretty sure any black American would whole heartedly agree with your perspective.


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## JaniceM (Jul 27, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> View attachment 231264


While there were certainly exceptions, the general viewpoint was people were responsible for their actions.  That's something I miss.  Anymore, nearly everybody has an excuse as to why they aren't.


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## Farrah Nuff (Saturday at 4:12 PM)

Advertising in America during “the good old days”


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## hearlady (Saturday at 4:39 PM)

I miss privacy, innocence, patriotism, education, citizenship, right living, and worthiness.
Reverence, interest, honesty, loyalty, kindness, and family values.
Workmanship, lawfulness, duty, character, and conduct.
Responsibility.


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## Lewkat (Saturday at 5:58 PM)

Every generation has had its cross to bear, and I've been through several.  But all things being relative, I find that both David777 and Murrmurr have the better handle on this thread.  

For instance, I was born at the height of the Great Depression in 1933.  Times were tough for both the haves and have-nots.  The world survived, and some folks even have fond memories of those days.

As the 40s approached and WWII was underway, I became very aware of the world around me.  Sad and tragic as war is, we pulled together, and I can remember many families still were able to enjoy life.  

When the war ended and the post-war brought men home with hopes and dreams for a much enlightened future.  It was boom time, with education opening up to one and all, everyone able to work and buy homes and marry.  It was the time for the Boomer generation to join us.  They were great years, even though another war in Korea interrupted some of our lives.  Even I am a Korean War vet.

When the 60s gave us a young president with vision, we were all agog.  He was sorely tested with the miscommunications of the Bay of Pigs incident, the building of the Berlin Wall, and then the Cuban Missile crisis.  And, Holly, I will add here; it had everything to do with yours and all nations on this globe.  Had not JFK stuck to his resolve, we'd have been catapulted into WWIII, make no mistake about that.  His brother and his military leaders were pushing him to wipe Cuba off the map.  But, having had a front row seat to WWII which nearly cost him his life, he prevented it from happening.  We breathed a collective sigh of relief, but, sadly, someone wasn't happy.  He was assassinated, and thus really began our loss of innocence. Vietnam came along, and with it, anger and cynicism ensued.  We lost faith in our leaders.  The media blasted us daily with negatives and haven't let up.

Internal strife during the late 60s throughout the 70s and 80s have continued non-stop into the present day.

Technology has, like all modern advances, been both good and bad.  Closing mental institutions was inherently wrong, yet those running them were sometimes worse than the patients.  No one seems to have bothered to find a solution to this problem.   All manner of mental aberrations has been around for generations, but, we were not made aware of same due to lack of communications.  So much more could be said about all of this thread and what we miss or not miss.  Each of us faces all our difficulties with the world daily, yet I perceive most have some level of contentment.  There are a few here,
 I have observed, who do not find joy at all in the past.  I suspect they find no joy in the present either.

I, for one, choose not to be bitter over those injustices of the past nor present.  Yet will continue to look for solutions to right all wrongs as they come along.  And, yes, I do miss the America I so enjoyed of the past, but am happy where I am today as well.


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## Packerjohn (Saturday at 6:21 PM)

Sassycakes said:


> I really think the whole world is going crazy not just America.


You got that right.  I live in Canada.  Two years ago, they were building everywhere 3rd toilets because "men" and "women" did not suite special people.  Apparently, they were not "comfortable" using toilets that said "men" or "women."  Go figure!

Today Canadians are wondering which of the 73 types of genders they are?  Canadians are more confused then ever!  Me?  I am all "man" and I have absolutely no problem with that.  Guess I am not Politically correct.

I tell you the truth!  No shortage of crazies north of the 49th Parallel!


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## Farrah Nuff (Saturday at 6:23 PM)

These horrible times that we find ourselves in, will be someone else’s good old days in the future.


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## Nemo2 (Saturday at 6:26 PM)

Farrah Nuff said:


> These horrible times that we find ourselves in, will be someone else’s good old days in the future.


Or a rerun of The Dark Ages.......either way, none of us will be around to comment.


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## Farrah Nuff (Saturday at 6:42 PM)

Nemo2 said:


> Or a rerun of The Dark Ages.......either way, none of us will be around to comment.


Life … It’s not the same for everyone, thank goodness!
Yeah, ya just never know but as horrible as things are,
I’m pretty sure that they aren’t horrible for everyone.
Grandchildren, great or great-great grands, yeah, they’ll 
inherit whatever future comes, good or bad, they’ll make
the best if it, same as anyone. It’s just too bad that it’s 
hindsight and not foresight that’s so easy to view.


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## Llynn (Saturday at 7:02 PM)

delete, bordering on political sorry Matrix


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## Nemo2 (Saturday at 7:06 PM)

Llynn said:


> JFK had actively started the Vietnam train wreck well before he was shot.


Didn't he take it over from Ike?


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## SeniorBen (Saturday at 8:11 PM)

Yep, the Eisenhower administration along with France and England installed a brutal right-wing Christian dictator in a land of Communistic Buddhists and then sent advisors in to help the dictator fight Vietnam's civil war. Kennedy inherited the mess and was reluctant to escalate our involvement.


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## Farrah Nuff (Saturday at 8:15 PM)

I'd rather be Miss Universe than Miss America, I mean, if I were given the choice.
And definitely Miss Universe than Miss USA! I Miss Universe, U R Not!


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## Disgustedman (Saturday at 8:21 PM)

Lewkat said:


> I, for one, choose not to be bitter over those injustices of the past nor present.  Yet will continue to look for solutions to right all wrongs as they come along.  And, yes, I do miss the America I so enjoyed of the past, but am happy where I am today as well.


That's the attitude we need. Yes, the past sucked  let's make tomorrow better.


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## Farrah Nuff (Saturday at 8:32 PM)

Disgustedman said:


> That's the attitude we need. Yes, the past sucked  let's make tomorrow better.


Uhmmm ... This is awkward but she said she _enjoyed_ her past.
What part of the past being sucky did you mean? Yours or hers?
And what will make tomorrow better and how?


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## Sawfish (Saturday at 8:59 PM)

What I've been doing for quite a while is to make *my* life, and to whatever degree I can, the lives of those close to me, as good as they can be realistically. At this limited scope I can effect a fair amount of control over some things, and as I broaden my scope, my degree of control drops very quickly, so what't the point, really?

This keeps busy, keeps my mind off of the truly cruddy crap I see daily, and gives a sense of satisfaction.

I mean, really, it's the best I can do with it.


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## Farrah Nuff (Saturday at 9:09 PM)

Sawfish said:


> I mean, really, it's the best I can do with it.


I think most of us feel the same or a similar way.
The best I can is all I can do. If you do your best too,
at the end of the day, something's gonna be changed.

Thanks for giving us your best!


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## chic (Saturday at 11:35 PM)

Sassycakes said:


> I really think the whole world is going crazy not just America.


I agree. This is Global. England is in bad shape for sure with almost a national strike, it seems. Maybe some civil unrest is called for. It's up to us to effect change. Those in charge are unconcerned about us small folk.


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## Tish (Saturday at 11:51 PM)

Same for Australia.


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## horseless carriage (Sunday at 12:23 AM)

hollydolly said:


> In the UK... it's not MY perception things have changed almost beyond recognition .. and the people too...


Agreed, my wife and I came down with a flu-like virus, I recovered, she deteriorated. Decades ago our own doctor, or locum, would have come out to her. Last night the NHS 111 service sent her to A&E. There could be a possibility that she has the corona virus. After two hours wait a doctor came and announced that it could be as much as a further nine hours before seeing a doctor.

In 2023, my wife's medical care amounts to. "Go home, drink plenty of fluids, monitor your temperature hourly, if things worsen, call an ambulance. She's in bed now, no worse but far from improving. If I call an out of hours doctor I will get transferred to 111 and round we go again. Tomorrow, I am registering us with The Nuffield private health care, we shall go private from now on.


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## Farrah Nuff (Sunday at 2:02 AM)

chic said:


> I agree. This is Global. England is in bad shape for sure with almost a national strike, it seems. Maybe some civil unrest is called for. It's up to us to effect change. Those in charge are unconcerned about us small folk.


What kind of civil unrest do you suggest? What would your plan be to effect real changes?


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## hollydolly (Sunday at 3:54 AM)

horseless carriage said:


> Agreed, my wife and I came down with a flu-like virus, I recovered, she deteriorated. Decades ago our own doctor, or locum, would have come out to her. Last night the NHS 111 service sent her to A&E. There could be a possibility that she has the corona virus. After two hours wait a doctor came and announced that it could be as much as a further nine hours before seeing a doctor.
> 
> In 2023, my wife's medical care amounts to. "Go home, drink plenty of fluids, monitor your temperature hourly, if things worsen, call an ambulance. She's in bed now, no worse but far from improving. If I call an out of hours doctor I will get transferred to 111 and round we go again. Tomorrow, I am registering us with The Nuffield private health care, we shall go private from now on.


yes this is normal nowadays... which is heartbreaking for us all. This week the media have been full of stories about people who have died from lack of an ambulance attending .. 11 hours for one 36 year old who died.... 14 hours for a 65 year old who died... In fact there was a survey which found that at least 500 people every year are dying simply from lack of care caused by no attention from a Doctor, who would otherwise be saved. 

I had Private medical Insurance, right up until last year.. when O/H left, and withdrew our couples policy. Unfortunately I can't afford it on  my own now. 

Wishing Mrs HC a very speedy recovery.. and incidentally HC.. just in case you don't know , Mrs HC can be seen by a private doctor out of pocket in your area for now,  while you wait for your insurance... Just google Private GP in your area, and she can be seen asap..for anywhere between £70 and £130.. terrible situation but when needs must !


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## hearlady (Sunday at 9:42 AM)

And I miss brotherhood.


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## Tempsontime65 (Yesterday at 3:13 PM)

I think it was[Browning]who said[You Can't Go Home Again] and he was absolutely right, for me it's the changes to the city I grew up in that hurt the most, as it may be for many of you, to not see the buildings that were apart of your youth can be hard, I was born and raised in[D.C.] but it long ago ceased to be my home city.


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## Raddragn (Yesterday at 5:39 PM)

I, for one, have no desire for the so-called "good old days". My life is so much better now in so many ways than it ever could  have been then  My medical problems alone - I have had cancer 3 times. In all liklihood, I woukld never have survived the first (lung) cancer then - most people didn't. Life was certainly not better for minorities. Life is about change. Nothing stays the same. Those who resist adaption will be left way behind.


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## hearlady (Yesterday at 5:42 PM)

Good point. In the old days I likely would have died in childbirth. 
I mean the old old days.


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## multimodAL (Yesterday at 6:04 PM)

Judycat said:


> My dad missed the sound of the horse and buggy and the way kerosene lamps made shadows on the wall.  Same old stuff.  Guess former cave people missed not having to clean everything because back then everything was made of dirt.


really love the analogy @Judycat!

it's all about setting the perspective... and then lowering the bar.


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