# The JonBenét Ramsey Case



## Aunt Marg (Oct 30, 2020)

Now here is a case that smelled bad to me from the very beginning, and with more and more people tied to the family having passed on, I firmly believe this case will never be solved.

What's your take on it?


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## win231 (Oct 30, 2020)

I've always believed her mother killed her.  And her father knew it & covered it up.  Too many things about that stranger kidnapping story didn't add up.  At least justice was served - eventually when her mother died of cancer at 49.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 30, 2020)

win231 said:


> I've always believed her mother killed her.  And her father knew it & covered it up.  Too many things about that stranger kidnapping story didn't add up.  At least justice was served - eventually when her mother died of cancer at 49.


I have always believed the same.


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## Keesha (Oct 30, 2020)

Parents who dress their kids up to show them off and compete like this is sickening right from the start. I always thought it was the brother and the parents covered it up. A spooky story that is still haunting


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 30, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Parents who dress their kids up to show them off and compete like this is sickening right from the start. I always thought it was the brother and the parents covered it up. A spooky story that is still haunting


I am with you 100% on that!

And then there was Michael Helgoth.

So many aspects of this case are a mystery.


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## Keesha (Oct 30, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> I am with you 100% on that!
> 
> And then there was Michael Helgoth.
> 
> So many aspects of this case are a mystery.


I had to look him up. He was the electrician. Its not something I spend much time on since it’s super spooky but looking up this guy I noticed there were 8 suspects including family and many serial killers who confessed to killing her only for the extra attention it offered.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 30, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I had to look him up. He was the electrician. Its not something I spend much time on since it’s super spooky but looking up this guy I noticed there were 8 suspects including family and many serial killers who confessed to killing her only for the extra attention it offered.


Interesting it is.

I find whenever someone is tied to a questionable case and they either end up murdered or commit suicide, that raises immediate red flags for me.


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## win231 (Oct 30, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I had to look him up. He was the electrician. Its not something I spend much time on since it’s super spooky but looking up this guy I noticed there were 8 suspects including family and many serial killers who confessed to killing her only for the extra attention it offered.


That's why there are "Polygraph Keys."  They withhold certain details of a crime that only the killer or witnesses would know, so they can recognize false confessions from crackpots.


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## Butterfly (Oct 30, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Parents who dress their kids up to show them off and compete like this is sickening right from the start. I always thought it was the brother and the parents covered it up. A spooky story that is still haunting



I strongly agree about parents who allow their kids to dress up and compete in those shows.

I don't have a strong opinion about who did it, but those shows and all that makeup and highly sexualized flouncing around and posing is just disgusting.


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## Camper6 (Oct 30, 2020)

Strangled, blunt weapon to the head, sexually assaulted.

I can't believe it was the mother.


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## Judycat (Oct 30, 2020)

I think it was her brother Burke.


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 30, 2020)

I've always thought that her brother Burke was guilty of murder or some form of accidental death and that the parents covered it up in a misguided attempt to salvage what was left of their family.


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## win231 (Oct 30, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> Strangled, blunt weapon to the head, sexually assaulted.
> 
> I can't believe it was the mother.


It probably started out as what some ignorant parents call "Discipline," then after it got out of hand, the mother knew she had to make it look like a crime & also make sure she was dead so she couldn't talk.
That often occurs with controlling parents who are obsessed with their kids' career & (in their mind) consider it making sure my kids "make something of themselves."


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 30, 2020)

Judycat said:


> I think it was her brother Burke.


I was reading about him and according to all information, he was cleared on the grounds that no DNA was found linking him to the scene or the body of JonBenét.

Like yourself, Judy, any/all are still in my crosshairs.


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## Keesha (Oct 30, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> I strongly agree about parents who allow their kids to dress up and compete in those shows.
> 
> I don't have a strong opinion about who did it, but those shows and all that makeup and highly sexualized flouncing around and posing is just disgusting.


Children look to their parents to be role models. To show us how to act and behave. Dressing your child up in such a way is practically pimping your child out; targeted by  every child predator. It IS disgusting.

I think money had a lot to do with it. A pay off perhaps. Shush money?


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 30, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Children look to their parents to be role models. To show us how to act and behave. Dressing your child up in such a way is practically pimping your child out; targeted by  every child predator. It IS disgusting.
> 
> This case was almost as surprising as the OJ Simpson case. I really think money had a lot to do with it. A pay off perhaps. Shush money!


When all of the Toddlers in Tiaras, and all of the rest of it started showing on television, my immediate thought was, shame on you! 

Shame on you for airing and promoting such a thing.


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## Lewkat (Oct 30, 2020)

This case was stained from the outset.  Certainly money passed hands to muddy the waters here.  Guess we'll never know.  That child had no idea what a normal childhood is.  The father should never have allowed the mother to make her into what she became.  I don't think her brother was involved at all.  This was the work of an adult male.


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## Mike (Oct 30, 2020)

Sorry, I know nothing of this case.

Mike.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 30, 2020)

I also think it was the brother


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## CeeCee (Oct 30, 2020)

At first I thought it was the father, then the mother, then the brother but after many years of different things coming out I’m not so sure anymore but it was someone who was very close to the family in my opinion.


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## Nathan (Oct 30, 2020)

In hindsight, the Boulder PD and DA made mistakes that complicated matters, splitting investigators efforts to properly cultivate a unified theory under which they could develop coherent evidence.


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## Gaer (Oct 30, 2020)

Interesting case.  IMO:  The Mother committed the crime due to outrage and jealousy over involvement between  her husband and her daughter.  BUT I COULD BE WRONG!
There is a dance group of 11 year olds called "the Cuties", who are also sending out these ****** vibes.


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## Kadee (Oct 30, 2020)

I see that on TV and I cringe when I see young girls parading / dressed in skimpy clothing as well as lots of makeup .

What sort of message is that giving these children for when they grow up ?


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## 911 (Nov 3, 2020)

Nathan said:


> In hindsight, the Boulder PD and DA made mistakes that complicated matters, splitting investigators efforts to properly cultivate a unified theory under which they could develop coherent evidence.


The cops broke Rule #1—Secure the crime scene! They allowed relatives, neighbors, friends and other cops to walk throughout the house before the investigation even began. Who does that? Once that happened, any forensics that were still there probably were compromised. Prints, body fluids threads, hair, etc. all gone or stepped on, moved or removed.

The house, inside and outside should have been immediately taped off.


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 3, 2020)

911 said:


> *The cops broke Rule #1—Secure the crime scene! They allowed relatives, neighbors, friends and other cops to walk throughout the house before the investigation even began. Who does that?* Once that happened, any forensics that were still there probably were compromised. Prints, body fluids threads, hair, etc. all gone or stepped on, moved or removed.
> 
> The house, inside and outside should have been immediately taped off.


Am I wrong in my way of thinking... accidentally - purposely?


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## 911 (Nov 3, 2020)

The cops swarmed the place. Two patrol officers were called to the residence. They were shown the body. They then requested a detective and a CSI team. At that point, their very next course of action should have been to clear the residence and grounds and tape it off.

When the child went missing, John and his neighbor searched the house and ‘he’ found the body in the basement. Then, he carried her upstairs. Why? My thought was that he wanted to mark the body with his DNA. Why would he do this? Maybe to protect someone?

I sure would like to get a look at the files.


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 3, 2020)

911 said:


> The cops swarmed the place. Two patrol officers were called to the residence. They were shown the body. They then requested a detective and a CSI team. At that point, their very next course of action should have been to clear the residence and grounds and tape it off.
> 
> When the child went missing, John and his neighbor searched the house and ‘he’ found the body in the basement. Then, he carried her upstairs. Why? My thought was that he wanted to mark the body with his DNA. Why would he do this? Maybe to protect someone?
> 
> I sure would like to get a look at the files.


Everything about this case stinks to me.


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 3, 2020)

I don't believe for a second that this was a case of straight murder (outside of the family).

I do believe (and am convinced) a cover-up unfolded.


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## 911 (Nov 3, 2020)

Too many questions and no answers. If your daughter went missing, why would you get the neighbor to help you search the house? And when ‘you’ found the daughter, why would ‘you’ make sure that the neighbor was with ‘you’ at that particular time?

Killers do this as a form of having an alibi. They (John & the neighbor) did not go directly to the basement. They searched throughout the house and when they didn’t find her, John said that is when he thought that she may be in the wine cellar.

There are a few really good detectives here in the U.S. that had they been called in to investigate this homicide, I believe that the outcome may have been different. I thoroughly trust Tom Brennan from Harrisburg and a New York detective named Ken Brennan, no relation to Tom. These 2 men are the real deal.


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## Butterfly (Nov 7, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Am I wrong in my way of thinking... accidentally - purposely?



I think it's a stretch to think the police purposely let the crime scene be screwed up.  What would be their motive in doing that?  Doesn't make sense.  More likely they were just grossly careless; and didn't I read somewhere that this was their first murder or nearly the first?  This sounds to me more like they just didn't know what they were doing.


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 7, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> I think it's a stretch to think the police purposely let the crime scene be screwed up.  What would be their motive in doing that?  Doesn't make sense.  More likely they were just grossly careless; and didn't I read somewhere that this was their first murder or nearly the first?  This sounds to me more like they just didn't know what they were doing.


It definitely leaves a lot open to speculation for sure, but when cases go so far sideways to the extent that this case did, I have a difficult time ruling out anything and everything, and I trust no one.


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## win231 (Nov 7, 2020)

I never forgot a priceless quip in Jay Leno's monologue about the case:
"A reporter asked the Boulder, CO Police Chief for an update on the Jon Benet Ramsey murder.  The police chief asked, _*"There was a murder?"*_


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## Butterfly (Nov 11, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> It definitely leaves a lot open to speculation for sure, but when cases go so far sideways to the extent that this case did, I have a difficult time ruling out anything and everything, and I trust no one.



But what motive could the police have had for intentionally bungling the case?  

There's a thing called Hanlon's Razor which advises:  "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."  I think here we could substitute "incompetence" for "stupidity."


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 11, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> But what motive could the police have had for intentionally bungling the case?
> 
> There's a thing called Hanlon's Razor which advises:  "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."  I think here we could substitute "incompetence" for "stupidity."


Having a close relationship with the Ramsey's...

Other unknown reason or reasons outside that of the general public's knowledge...

I like to look at al angles when it comes to cases such as this. Everyone and everything is suspect in my books.


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## rgp (Nov 12, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Having a close relationship with the Ramsey's...
> 
> Other unknown reason or reasons outside that of the general public's knowledge...
> 
> I like to look at al angles when it comes to cases such as this. Everyone and everything is suspect in my books.




  "Having a close relationship with the Ramsey's..."

 You know the Ramsey's ?

 Then who killed the little girl ?

 IMO it was a family member.


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 12, 2020)

rgp said:


> "Having a close relationship with the Ramsey's..."
> 
> You know the Ramsey's ?
> 
> ...


I'm just brainstorming, I do that with cold cases, because it helps me think deeper into the why's and how's and who's.

I, too, believe it was a family member.


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## Mike (Jan 18, 2021)

I found this and it is dated 5 days ago, there is
a TV programme that I am looking for, 1hr 38mins
about all the evidence collected by the lead detective.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/killed-jonbenet-ramsey-investigators-dying-search-family/story?id=75186109

Mike.


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## Jeni (Jan 18, 2021)

I always thought in a case like that or any for that matter................. if you were to find a body to not move it .....touch as little as possible ..........note anything you did touch....  even the handwritten note made no sense ....... 
too many things appeared to be staged........ as if someone watched a few crime themed shows....

I always thought it was the family ..... coupled with a police department that had very little if any homicide experience.... 
with intense media coverage doomed this to remain a mystery.


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## win231 (Jan 18, 2021)

Camper6 said:


> Strangled, blunt weapon to the head, sexually assaulted.
> 
> I can't believe it was the mother.


Agreed, but if she knew who it was & covered it up, she's just as bad.


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## mellowyellow (Jan 18, 2021)

Can't believe the parents had anything to do with it, I'll stick with the intruder theory, probably never to be found.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Jan 18, 2021)

There’s the DNA that’s not a match to anyone in the family.
It was just on 20/20 last Friday, the family of Lew Smith, the investigator has gotten the files and have taken over where it was left upon his death, his granddaughters have a podcast”The Victims Shoes” that takes on some of the aforementioned theories.


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## Mike (Jan 19, 2021)




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## Camper6 (Jan 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> Agreed, but if she knew who it was & covered it up, she's just as bad.


How do you determine that she knew?


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## Mozzie (Jan 19, 2021)

There are people saying it was the brother.


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## Aunt Marg (Jan 19, 2021)

Mike said:


>


Unfortunately, due to Burke Ramsey's perma-smirking (what a creep), I am unable to watch the video.


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## rgp (Jan 20, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Unfortunately, due to Burke Ramsey's perma-smirking (what a creep), I am unable to watch the video.




 I think his 'smirk' might just be his facial shape  .......  strongly resembling his mother.

 He is my main suspect though ?

 The one i cannot stand ........ PERIOD is Dr Phil


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## fmdog44 (Jan 20, 2021)

Wasn't everyone put on lie detectors? I usually have an opinion on these but not on this one. Totally stumped.


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## chic (Jan 30, 2021)

JonBenet had been in a Christmas pageant float parading through town as a little pageant queen where she was seen and applauded by the crowds. I think in that crowd was her killer, perhaps. But there was such a wealth of convoluted evidence presented by the family, the ransom note being one. It looked like a red herring to me. 

JonBenet and her family had been out visiting that night where she ate crushed pineapple, found in her stomach upon autopsy. Patsy Ramsey had been a pageant queen herself as a child, and thought it gave a girl a good start in life and I suppose it can, but not for poor little JonBenet. She had a bedwetting problem which her mother found annoying. One theory was that she had wet her jammies on the night she died and Patsy bathed her and JonBenet cracked her skull on the tub's edge and died but the family concocted a home invasion and ransom threat to confuse the police with the idea that it may have been an outside job.

I don't know who killed JonBenet but hers remains on of the most intriguing unsolved cases of the 20th century.


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## dobielvr (Jan 31, 2021)

Can I just add...that I'm intrigued by the unsolved case of Chandra Levy.
Do we have a thread on her?  I'll look.

Oh. and re: Jon Benet, I feel  the whole fam is in on it...jmo
And Patsy wrote the ransom note.   jmo


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## Aunt Marg (Jan 31, 2021)

dobielvr said:


> Can I just add...that *I'm intrigued by the unsolved case of Chandra Levy.
> Do we have a thread on her?*  I'll look.
> 
> Oh. and re: Jon Benet, I feel  the whole fam is in on it...jmo
> And Patsy wrote the ransom note.   jmo


I don't think we do, so would love for you to start a thread on her, Dob.


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## dobielvr (Jan 31, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I don't think we do, so would love for you to start a thread on her, Dob.


Ya, didn't see one.  I'm not good at starting threads...don't know what to say.
Let me give it some thought as to the correct wording I should use.


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## Aunt Marg (Jan 31, 2021)

dobielvr said:


> Ya, didn't see one.  I'm not good at starting threads...don't know what to say.
> Let me give it some thought as to the correct wording I should use.


I have complete and total faith in you, Dob!


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## chic (Jan 31, 2021)

dobielvr said:


> Can I just add...that I'm intrigued by the unsolved case of Chandra Levy.
> Do we have a thread on her?  I'll look.
> 
> Oh. and re: Jon Benet, I feel  the whole fam is in on it...jmo
> And Patsy wrote the ransom note.


No to Chandra Levy. That was a fascinating case!


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## BertieJean (Feb 4, 2021)

I don't know who the killer is. My opinion has gone back and forth among all the family members. But I do think the entire family is involved in covering it up and making it look like an intruder.


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## chic (Feb 4, 2021)

I do believe it was a stranger. JonBenet was little Miss Colorado and appeared in a pre Christmas parade shortly before her murder riding on a float with her full makeup on. She was a pedophiles' dream and there were so many registered sex offenders in the area as well as those whose tastes ran to pedophilia. There was a broken window in the basement of the Ramsey home which would have provided entry for a killer and shrubbery outside to provide cover. 

Perhaps any resemblance between Patsy Ramsey's handwriting and the ransom note was coincidence. It wasn't enough to convict any of the Ramsey's of the crime or even to imply complicity.


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## Mike (Feb 5, 2021)

dobielvr said:


> Ya, didn't see one.  I'm not good at starting threads...don't know what to say.
> Let me give it some thought as to the correct wording I should use.


Years ago I was like you, thinking about what and how to write,
the soluion I found at the time was to write the same as you speak,
don't worry about the grammer, it is different all over the world.

Start by writing something about anything, then stand in front of
the screen and read it out loud to see if it sounds OK to you.

I am sorry that, that sounds a bit patronising, it isn't meant to be, I
am really trying to help.

Mike.


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## dobielvr (Feb 5, 2021)

No problem Mike, and thank you.

I def write as I speak lol.


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## FastTrax (May 3, 2022)

Update to Thread #1 October 30th 2020 JonBenet Ramsey Case



Aunt Marg said:


> Now here is a case that smelled bad to me from the very beginning, and with more and more people tied to the family having passed on, I firmly believe this case will never be solved.
> 
> What's your take on it?













Will complete post tomorrow.


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## chic (May 4, 2022)

I agree. I doubt this will ever be solved to the public's satisfaction.


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## Tish (May 4, 2022)

I just don't know, if it will ever be solved.


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## Marie5656 (May 4, 2022)

*This will remain unsolved, I am sure. But I always kind of wondered about Burke.  I wondered if he was jealous of his sister due to her attention from the pagent life.  But would it be enough to kill her?  *


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## FastTrax (May 4, 2022)

Sorry folks just very busy with this move.

www.the-sun.com/news/4324028/jonbenet-ramsey-brother-john-andrew-dna-can-solve-murder/

https://thesun.co.uk/news/2108001/j...-party-three-days-before-child-disappearance/

www.cnn.com/2016/12/13/us/jonbenet-ramsey-case/index.html

https://dailymail.co.uk/news/articl...-killed-older-brother-smeared-feces-wall.html

www.bouldercolorado.gov/media/2923/download?inline=

www.distractify.com/p/where-is-jonbenet-ramsey-brother-today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Murder,_Perfect_Town

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bennett_Ramsey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patsy_Ramsey


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## JaniceM (Jun 2, 2022)

I'd like to know what the reason is for the cover-up, as they surely know who did it.  

Personally, I think the whole family was/is nuts, but I think they're off the mark about the brother-  first, I don't think a 9-year-old would have the physical strength to do that, and also would lack the sophistication to write the note that was found.


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## Mizmo (Jun 2, 2022)

Yes it stinks the whole way through and I often wondered why the ransom amount was $118,000...odd amount....setup for sure!


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## Pepper (Jun 2, 2022)

Mizmo said:


> Yes it stinks the whole way through and I often wondered why the ransom amount was $118,000...odd amount....setup for sure!


The $118,000. was the amount of the father's Christmas bonus from his employer.


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## Mizmo (Jun 2, 2022)

Pepper said:


> The $118,000. was the amount of the father's Christmas bonus from his employer.



That makes it even stinkier ... nuff said!


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## Jace (Jun 2, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> 1. I'd like to know what the reason is for the cover-up,
> 2. Personally, I think the whole family was/is nuts,


1. That's what rich people do.
2. Personally, I think, Patsy=mother/wife, had a split personality, and when
"the other set in"...wham! 
Then the cover- up...
IMO 

Ever see "Three faces of Eve"...?


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## dobielvr (Jun 2, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I'd like to know what the reason is for the cover-up, as they surely know who did it.
> 
> Personally, I think the whole family was/is nuts, but I think they're off the mark about the brother-  first, I don't think a 9-year-old would have the physical strength to do that, and also would lack the sophistication to write the note that was found.


I don't think he wrote the note...I think Patsy did that.  But, I do believe he had the strength to hit her over the head w/a flashlight.  And, then Patsy finished her off.


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## Bellbird (Jun 3, 2022)

Marie5656 said:


> *This will remain unsolved, I am sure. But I always kind of wondered about Burke.  I wondered if he was jealous of his sister due to her attention from the pagent life.  But would it be enough to kill her?  *


Those are my thoughts too after listening and watching him on the Dr.Phil show some time ago.There was something not right about his demeanour. I felt he knew more than he was letting on.


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