# Christmas or Xmas ..



## hollydolly

We've all heard people decrying the use of the word Xmas in respect  of  Christs' pre-supposed Birthday..*Christ*mas it is, Christmas it will  always be..Xmas has no place with regard to anything to do with Christ,  they expound...do you agree?



 before you answer...have a look at this street view...





of Central Nazareth!!!




https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@32.7015067,35.2985275,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s73yW778AP0afOUvjUSqgNg!2e0


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## Capt Lightning

Since it is unlikely that Jesus was born on 25th Dec.. it's only a celebration of his birth.  This time of year round the winter solstice has been celebrated long before Jesus was born, and was most likely chosen to fit in with existing customs.  So, it can be called by many names and Xmas is just an accepted abreviation of Christmas.  In the same way, you'll see 'Crystal' being shortened to 'Xtal' in electronic circuits or 'transmit' to 'Xmit'.

I think it should be called  "Yuletide".


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## ClassicRockr

Don't care what anyone says, Christmas to us is Christ's birthday! That is our belief and *ALWAYS* will be!! Seems as if someone is always trying to take Christ out of something.


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## hollydolly

Capt Lightning said:


> Since it is unlikely that Jesus was born on 25th Dec.. it's only a celebration of his birth.  This time of year round the winter solstice has been celebrated long before Jesus was born, and was most likely chosen to fit in with existing customs.  So, it can be called by many names and Xmas is just an accepted abreviation of Christmas.  In the same way, you'll see 'Crystal' being shortened to 'Xtal' in electronic circuits or 'transmit' to 'Xmit'.
> 
> I think it should be called  "Yuletide".



I agree too...as I said in the OP.._pre-supposed_ Birthday!!


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## hollydolly

ClassicRockr said:


> Don't care what anyone says, Christmas to us is Christ's birthday! That is our belief and *ALWAYS* will be!! Seems as if someone is always trying to take Christ out of something.




Everyone is entitled to their own view CR..but if the supposed birth place of Christ don't mind it being called  Xmas..( as you would have seen in the link)..then it shows that in the great scheme of things it matters not a great deal what it's called!


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## SeaBreeze

It doesn't matter to me if people say Christmas, X-mas or Happy Holidays.


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## hollydolly

SeaBreeze said:


> It doesn't matter to me if people say Christmas, X-mas or Happy Holidays.



Me neither SB...but it does seem to upset a lot of people..


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## SeaBreeze

That's because a lot of people are practicing Christians, and like with many organized religions, it's my way or the highway, lol.


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## Lee

As long as it's a day of peace I don't care what anyone wants to call it.


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## hollydolly

SeaBreeze said:


> That's because a lot of people are practicing Christians, and like with many organized religions, it's my way or the highway, lol.




I agree SB...sad tho' it is...but if Nazareth can put up Yuletide street  decorations spelling it Xmas...then that's good enough for me ...


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## Vivjen

I don't mind Christmas, or Xmas; I heard an eclplanation of where Xmas came from; and apparently it is acceptable, and has been used for hundreds of years.
i must admit; I do not like happy holidays; but I suppose holiday has a different definition in UK.


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## QuickSilver

SeaBreeze said:


> That's because a lot of people are practicing Christians, and like with many organized religions, it's my way or the highway, lol.



I really don't understand the persecution complex Christains have.. Especially here in the USA...  For crying out loud every street corner in Americal looks like Santa's guts exploded..  There is no WAR on Christmas, no matter WHAT Fox news tells you.  No one is stopping anyone from celebrating the season in the way they wish.  Most are just asking to be allowed to do so also.

Anyway, the letter X does NOT take Christ out of Christmas..  

It turns out, “Xmas” is not a non-religious version of “Christmas”. The “X” is actually indicating the Greek letter “Chi”, which is short for the Greek




, meaning “Christ”. So “Xmas” and “Christmas” are equivalent in every way except their lettering.In fact, although writing guides such as those issued by the New York Times; the BBC; The Christian Writer’s Manual of Style; and Oxford Press discourage the use of Xmas in formal writing, at one time, it was a very popular practice, particularly with religious scribes, who are thought to have started the whole “Xmas” thing in the first place. Indeed, the practice of using the symbol “X” in place of Christ’s name has been going on amongst religious scholars for at least 1000 years.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index...xmas-doesnt-take-the-christ-out-of-christmas/


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## hollydolly

Brilliant...thanks for that QS...very interesting!!


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## AprilT

YO Holidays! Aey, you time of year again, go Yankees, have fun!  is fine with me or whatever else anyone else wants to say.


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## oldman

QuickSilver said:


> I really don't understand the persecution complex Christains have.. Especially here in the USA...  For crying out loud every street corner in Americal looks like Santa's guts exploded..  There is no WAR on Christmas, no matter WHAT Fox news tells you.  No one is stopping anyone from celebrating the season in the way they wish.  Most are just asking to be allowed to do so also.
> 
> Anyway, the letter X does NOT take Christ out of Christmas..
> 
> It turns out, “Xmas” is not a non-religious version of “Christmas”. The “X” is actually indicating the Greek letter “Chi”, which is short for the Greek
> 
> 
> 
> , meaning “Christ”. So “Xmas” and “Christmas” are equivalent in every way except their lettering.In fact, although writing guides such as those issued by the New York Times; the BBC; The Christian Writer’s Manual of Style; and Oxford Press discourage the use of Xmas in formal writing, at one time, it was a very popular practice, particularly with religious scribes, who are thought to have started the whole “Xmas” thing in the first place. Indeed, the practice of using the symbol “X” in place of Christ’s name has been going on amongst religious scholars for at least 1000 years.
> 
> http://www.todayifoundout.com/index...xmas-doesnt-take-the-christ-out-of-christmas/




Gee, I thought everyone knew this.


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## Pappy

My two cents worth. I've never said Xmas. Just one of those things I never cared for.


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## QuickSilver

oldman said:


> Gee, I thought everyone knew this.



Apparently not..


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## AZ Jim

Yep.  I agree with the use of whichever you choose.


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## Ameriscot

I don't care what anyone calls it.


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## Vala

I think people are far to critical and need to see the good in the world.  It doesn't matter if you put Xmas in a letter, it is the thought that counts.  Look at the way words are spelled in some text messages.


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## Georgia Lady

Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus, so it will always be Christmas for myself and family


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## Warrigal

QuickSilver said:


> I really don't understand the persecution complex Christains have.. Especially here in the USA...  For crying out loud every street corner in Americal looks like Santa's guts exploded..  There is no WAR on Christmas, no matter WHAT Fox news tells you.  No one is stopping anyone from celebrating the season in the way they wish.  Most are just asking to be allowed to do so also.
> 
> Anyway, the letter X does NOT take Christ out of Christmas..
> 
> It turns out, “Xmas” is not a non-religious version of “Christmas”. The “X” is actually indicating the Greek letter “Chi”, which is short for the Greek
> 
> 
> 
> , meaning “Christ”. So “Xmas” and “Christmas” are equivalent in every way except their lettering.In fact, although writing guides such as those issued by the New York Times; the BBC; The Christian Writer’s Manual of Style; and Oxford Press discourage the use of Xmas in formal writing, at one time, it was a very popular practice, particularly with religious scribes, who are thought to have started the whole “Xmas” thing in the first place. Indeed, the practice of using the symbol “X” in place of Christ’s name has been going on amongst religious scholars for at least 1000 years.
> 
> http://www.todayifoundout.com/index...xmas-doesnt-take-the-christ-out-of-christmas/



Snap. I was about to post the same reference to the Greek letter chi. The Greek letters chi and rho, the first two letters in the Greek word for Christ, Christos, are commonly used in catholic churches to represent Jesus. 



   Chi-Rho decoration 

It goes way back, nearly as far as the fish symbol. This secret code used by Christians under persecution to reveal themselves takes the Greek word for fish which uses each letter as a neumonic for a religious statement. Thus the outline of a fish came to be a badge of Christianity.







  The fish symbol explained.

This image has recently, as in my lifetime, become popular with evangelical Christians.

It is lack of knowledge that leads to vociferous protests about Xmas. Personally I object to the commercialisation of the Advent season. I say Advent because we have still not arrived at Christmas. The latest affront I saw was a bill board that announced that _"'Tis the season to receive". _Why can you never find a spray can when you need one? :aargh:


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## Ralphy1

Just don't take Santa out of whatever...


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## Happyflowerlady

Regardless of the fact that many non-religious people celebrate Christmas; the thing is , that CHRISTmas IS actually a CHRISTian  celebration day. 
 If other people want to join in the celebration of our Savior, we are happy to have others celebrate HIS birth, too.   No matter whether this is the acutal day or not, it is the day that is designated for Christians to celebrate this event. 

It is one thing to have a different opinion about being a Christian, or celebrating the Christian holiday of Christmas; but it is entirely another thing to ridicule any person on this forum (or anywhere else) because we want to keep the CHRIST in CHRISTmas.


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## SifuPhil

I just refer to it as "that usurped pagan celebration" ...


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## QuickSilver

Happyflowerlady said:


> Regardless of the fact that many non-religious people celebrate Christmas; the thing is , that CHRISTmas IS actually a CHRISTian  celebration day.
> If other people want to join in the celebration of our Savior, we are happy to have others celebrate HIS birth, too.   No matter whether this is the acutal day or not, it is the day that is designated for Christians to celebrate this event.
> 
> It is one thing to have a different opinion about being a Christian, or celebrating the Christian holiday of Christmas; but it is entirely another thing to ridicule any person on this forum (or anywhere else) because we want to keep the CHRIST in CHRISTmas.



Can you point out where anyone was RIDICULED?  I believe people were just pointing out the Xmas MEANS Christmas.

Others are correct in pointing out the December 25th date was taken by Christians to correspond with the Winter Solstice, a pagan holiday.   Historians pretty much agree the Christ was NOT born on that day.  AND no one is stopping you from celebrating what and how you want.


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## Happyflowerlady

If the shoe fits, wear it.  I didn't mention anyone specifically, I just do not think that it is the same thing to discuss an issue as it is to attack a person's individual beliefs or feelings. 

As far as the holiday celebration, I think that it is common knowledge that the change was forced to both Christians and pagans in an attempt to join the two celebrations, not just for Christmas, but for most of our traditional holidays. 
We just don't believe in sacrificing babies on the yule log as the pagans did.


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## QuickSilver

Happyflowerlady said:


> If the shoe fits, wear it.  I didn't mention anyone specifically, I just do not think that it is the same thing to discuss an issue as it is to attack a person's individual beliefs or feelings.
> 
> As far as the holiday celebration, I think that it is common knowledge that the change was forced to both Christians and pagans in an attempt to join the two celebrations, not just for Christmas, but for most of our traditional holidays.
> We just don't believe in sacrificing babies on the yule log as the pagans did.



Again... please point out where anyone has attacked any individual's beliefs or feeling?  I'm not finding a shoe here... let alone one that fits.. lol!


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## Meanderer

Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus Connection:http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/


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## Warrigal

Good find, Meanderer.

Many Christians acknowledge the mythical elements of the nativity stories while others accept them as factual.
People may hold different beliefs yet still share the same faith in the saving power the God of Peace and Love.
Christmas, whenever it is celebrated, is a time to reflect on the potential of humanity to be better than we usually are.

It pleases some people to debunk Jesus and the Horus analogy is just one example of this. I've heard the Horus story while looking at temple walls from our excellent guide in Egypt. There's a lot more to the story. Rather than picking and choosing a few parallels we should examine the writings about Horus and Jesus in their totalities before deciding that the Christians simply appropriated an old story for their own propaganda purposes.


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## Capt Lightning

Well, I still prefer to call this time, "Yuletide", being pre-Christian in origin and beginning at the Winter Solstice.  Personally, I would rather celebrate the Solstice, while others may choose to celebrate the 25th. December.  I think what people celebrate is more important than what they call the day.  
So, to each and everyone, have a happy  Yuletide, Christmas, Weihnachten,Noël, Kerstdag etc.. celebration.


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## Warrigal

Found among some Christmas quotes



> “Christmas is not a time nor a season but a state of mind.
> To cherish peace and goodwill, to be plenteous in mercy is to have the real spirit of Christmas.” -- Calvin Coolidge


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## Louise

There will always be controversy's  at this time of year, let's us all play nicely together before someone really gets hurt!  I will say I prefer Christmas, but if you like, I will wish you a Happy holiday, Happy Hanukkah or whatever you like.


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## RadishRose

I read in Wikipedia-

*Christmas or Christmas Day (Old English:Crīstesmæsse, meaning "Christ's Mass") is an annual festival commemorating the birthof Jesus Christ,[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP] observed most commonly on December 25[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP] as a religious and cultural celebration among billions of people around the world.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP]*


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## SifuPhil

Meanderer said:


> Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus Connection:http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/



Thanks for that - interesting. But I still see it as comparing two myths ...


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## GeorgiaXplant

Yay, Quick Silver! I thought I was the only one who knew the "Chi"/Greek connection. Actually, it was explained to us in catechism class when I was maybe only seven or eight years old. It has never bothered me one bit because I knew what it meant. People seem to get a tad concerned over little things that they don't understand.

So, Merry Christmas, Merry Xmas!


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## Warrigal

RadishRose said:


> I read in Wikipedia-
> 
> *Christmas or Christmas Day (Old English:Crīstesmæsse, meaning "Christ's Mass") is an annual festival commemorating the birthof Jesus Christ,[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP] observed most commonly on December 25[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP] as a religious and cultural celebration among billions of people around the world.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP]*



Exactly. December 25 is the day that Christ is celebrated in western Christianity in the same way that various saints have their dedicated days. In earlier centuries the date corresponded to January 6 (now Epiphany) or Pentecost Sunday, fifty days after Easter.

Many of the popular feast days have now largely fallen off the church calendar e.g. Michaelmas



> *Michaelmas**,*  Christian feast of St. Michael the Archangel, celebrated in the Western churches on September 29 and in the Eastern (Orthodox) Church on November 8. In the Roman Catholic Church, it is the Feast of SS. Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael, archangels; in the Anglican Church, its proper name is the Feast of St. Michael and All Angels.
> The cult of St. Michael began in the Eastern Church in the 4th century and spread to Western Christianity by the 5th century; the date of May 8 commemorates the dedication of a sanctuary to St. Michael at Monte Gargano in Italy in the 6th century. Because of St. Michael’s traditional position as leader of the heavenly armies, veneration of all angels was eventually incorporated into his cult.
> 
> During the Middle Ages, Michaelmas was a great religious feast and many popular traditions grew up around the day, which coincided with the harvest in much of western Europe. In England it was the custom to eat a goose on Michaelmas, which was supposed to protect against financial need for the next year. In Ireland, finding a ring hidden in a Michaelmas pie meant that one would soon be married.


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## Ameriscot

http://www.dgreetings.com/christmas/celebrations-around-the-world/in-thailand.html

It's been very strange seeing Santas and Xmas trees and decorations in Thailand. The Xmas songs played are all nonreligious. Thailand is 95% Buddhist so do not believe in a diety and certainly not in Jesus. But they celebrate in a completely nonreligious way with gifts, Santa, kids dressing up in bright colours. However, it is not an official holiday and businesses and schools are open as normal.


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## oakapple

Yes, the X is a cross after all.I would write Christmas [and do, in my cards] but it doesn't bother me at all.Have a Cool Yule as well.


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## Blaze Duskdreamer

QuickSilver said:


> I really don't understand the persecution complex Christains have.. Especially here in the USA...  For crying out loud every street corner in Americal looks like Santa's guts exploded..  There is no WAR on Christmas, no matter WHAT Fox news tells you.  No one is stopping anyone from celebrating the season in the way they wish.  Most are just asking to be allowed to do so also.
> 
> Anyway, the letter X does NOT take Christ out of Christmas..
> 
> It turns out, “Xmas” is not a non-religious version of “Christmas”. The “X” is actually indicating the Greek letter “Chi”, which is short for the Greek
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , meaning “Christ”. So “Xmas” and “Christmas” are equivalent in every way except their lettering.In fact, although writing guides such as those issued by the New York Times; the BBC; The Christian Writer’s Manual of Style; and Oxford Press discourage the use of Xmas in formal writing, at one time, it was a very popular practice, particularly with religious scribes, who are thought to have started the whole “Xmas” thing in the first place. Indeed, the practice of using the symbol “X” in place of Christ’s name has been going on amongst religious scholars for at least 1000 years.
> 
> http://www.todayifoundout.com/index...xmas-doesnt-take-the-christ-out-of-christmas/



Beat me to it!  And several others I see.  



Dame Warrigal said:


> Found among some Christmas quotes



Excellent quote.  This is what we all -- whatever we do or don't believe -- should keep in mind.


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## Josiah

Capt Lightning said:


> Since it is unlikely that Jesus was born on 25th Dec.. it's only a celebration of his birth.  This time of year round the winter solstice has been celebrated long before Jesus was born, and was most likely chosen to fit in with existing customs.  So, it can be called by many names and Xmas is just an accepted abreviation of Christmas.  In the same way, you'll see 'Crystal' being shortened to 'Xtal' in electronic circuits or 'transmit' to 'Xmit'.
> 
> I think it should be called  "Yuletide".


Yuletide has a nice ring to it, I think I'll adopt it in place of Happy Holidays.


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## Warrigal

Yuletide won't work in Australia. 
We usually have fire bans at this time of the year.

We have however invented a second Christmas season to allow people to have all the trimmings of a northern hemisphere Christmas.
We call it Christmas in July but we don't do presents then. It is sometimes called Yuletide.


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## Pappy

At our summer campgrounds, and most campgrounds around us, have Christmas in July. Most folks decorate their trailers and sing Christmas carols. Last year, we had a party and everyone brought a small present to exchange. Makes for a good time.


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## Blaze Duskdreamer

Josiah09 said:


> Yuletide has a nice ring to it, I think I'll adopt it in place of Happy Holidays.



Yuletide is actually what my favorite MMO uses to not offend anyone.  Believe it or not, people still find a way to get all offended over nothing and this game does a great job of being all inclusive.


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## Knightofalbion

*Christmas!*

But it's just a word, unless the message of Christmas, the spirit of Christmas - love, goodwill, peace and mercy - is writ large in our hearts and followed in our daily life ...

'Let there be peace on earth - and let it begin with me'


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## oakapple

I always make a chocolate yule log [yummy.]


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## Mike

*"Happy Holidays"?*

Why has America given up on Christmas, or at
least wishing each other "A happy or Merry One"?

I think that it is sad for a Christian Countrty to
give up it's heritage.

Mike.


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## Blaze Duskdreamer

First:  This is not a Christian nation.  I refer you to the Treaty of Tripoli if you think otherwise.  Google it.  Not to mention the 1st amendment.  Also, google the Lemon test.

2nd:  The war on Christmas is a lie made up by bigots who hate non-Christians.  Bigots and I daresay hypocrites.  Is that what Jesus preached?  No, it was not.  They make the Baby Jesus cry.

3rd:  No one is really offended if you say Merry Christmas.  Go on.  Try it.  You might run into one or two anti-theists but then they're as extreme as the Christians who rewrite history to claim this is a Christian nation and make up stories about a war on Christmas but 95% of the population doesn't give a crap.


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## Fern

The US given up on Xmas, !! geez, what next.


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