# The End Of The American Empire Is Here



## Paco Dennis (May 26, 2022)

This video is non-political ( non-partisan ) and covers the reality of the choices being made NOW that are INSANE! We are bankrupting our own country over the outrageous amount of money and the propaganda about the Ukraine war.  We have fallen down the rabbit hole and what was up is now down.






( posted for informative and engaging subject matter )


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## Don M. (May 26, 2022)

Our soaring national debt is going to shaft us all if our government doesn't wake up....and soon.  Printing money with NO means of backing it up will eventually cause the value of the dollar to Crash.  The U.S. ran up a massive debt during WWII, but in the late 40's/early 50's, taxes rose to as high as 90%, and the debt was brought under control.  Try that today, and most people would "mutiny"....especially the wealthy.  
Nations such as Argentina and Greece have seen their currencies crash in recent years, due to irresponsible governments, and we are headed down the same road.  When, not if, the dollar is devalued, a loaf of bread will cost $5, and a gallon of gas $10, but wages will Not be doubled.


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## CrowFlies (May 26, 2022)

this empire is over cuz wallst has stripped the entire land mass of resources leaving nothing but dirt
dust and all thats broken in their wake.

our gov let them do it.  120 years is all it took to alter this continent for the next 1000years.
they did it elsewhere too.

everything else is a distraction.  all the celebrity politics is a distraction.  they fly over this land mass
all the time they SEE what it looks like, they Know what theyve done and they do not GAS.

the distractors will find ways to distract the people from the environment.


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## Gary O' (May 26, 2022)

For many years, other countries have had confidence in the USD, of which has kept it rather strong

Not so now

It's our little house..... built on sand


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## Alligatorob (May 26, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> The End Of The American Empire Is Here


I don't know, maybe.  

However we have faired as bad or worse, the Civil War, the depression, WWII, and Vietnam to mention a few and have somehow always managed to rebound stronger.  

Hard to know where all this is really going...


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## morgan (May 26, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Tthe propaganda about the Ukraine war.


May i ask what you mean by the above, thank you.


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## dseag2 (May 26, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> This video is non-political ( non-partisan ) and covers the reality of the choices being made NOW that are INSANE! We are bankrupting our own country over the outrageous amount of money and the propaganda about the Ukraine war.  We have fallen down the rabbit hole and what was up is now down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting this.  I love Jimmy Dore!  So many great points.


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## Gary O' (May 26, 2022)

The End Of The American Empire Is Here​
Rather historic, as far as empires go
Somewhat recent history shows 200 years (give or take) is about all the time an empire has been allotted.

We haven't done much to stem that tide


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## CrowFlies (May 26, 2022)

empires around the planet will go down.  ours will, we have way too many humans, we cant manage this.
not enough food not enough land for it which is why they cut down the trees then go AG.
then theres not enough water left now.  

free flowing water is gone.  at least across the west it is.  
the clear cut west had all its water evap'd to move east and rain there.


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## Judycat (May 26, 2022)

American Empire?  Oh tut-tut.


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## ohioboy (May 26, 2022)

...The interest on the public debt for fiscal year 2021 is estimated to be $413 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO)....

That is just an INTEREST payment, no Principal/debt reduction from it!! Congress has signed a death warrant for America. Those growing up don't stand a chance! Our own government has condemned us!!!


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## Paco Dennis (May 26, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Our soaring national debt is going to shaft us all if our government doesn't wake up....and soon.  Printing money with NO means of backing it up will eventually cause the value of the dollar to Crash.  The U.S. ran up a massive debt during WWII, but in the late 40's/early 50's, taxes rose to as high as 90%, and the debt was brought under control.  Try that today, and most people would "mutiny"....especially the wealthy.
> Nations such as Argentina and Greece have seen their currencies crash in recent years, due to irresponsible governments, and we are headed down the same road.  When, not if, the dollar is devalued, a loaf of bread will cost $5, and a gallon of gas $10, but wages will Not be doubled.


Misa and I are already planning on less of everything from now on. We are losing close to 20% each month on our budget! Sometimes I feel like I live in the beginnings of one of the third world countries we invaded and then failed to help them but we demolished their country....ironinc?


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## Paco Dennis (May 26, 2022)

morgan said:


> May i ask what you mean by the above, thank you.


As best I can tell the only information about what is really happening in Ukraine is propaganda. That is also always a large activity during WAR. The fog of war....


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## Paco Dennis (May 26, 2022)

Judycat said:


> American Empire?  Oh tut-tut.


_Tut-tut is defined as *something said to show annoyance or to call someone on bad behavior*. An example of tut-tut is what someone says when talking about a congressman/_empire _who got caught in a sex scandal/_burning rome. _interjection._ Could you please explain? I am confused about your context. Thanks.


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## Nathan (May 26, 2022)

> The End Of The American Empire Is Here


I think that all the World's 'empires' are on the short path to ruin.  The out-of-control cutthroat capitalism and out-of-sync political aspirations of the majors player worldwide will cost mankind dearly, in the long run.   However, coping with the Stone-age the 2nd time around shouldn't be quite as difficult, as long as the toilet paper mills stay functional.


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## Paco Dennis (May 26, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I don't know, maybe.
> 
> However we have faired as bad or worse, the Civil War, the depression, WWII, and Vietnam to mention a few and have somehow always managed to rebound stronger.
> 
> Hard to know where all this is really going...


Each of the recoveries involved having a thriving middle class. I don't see how we are going to put THAT humpty dumpty back together again.  Please whenever possible...post good news about the middle class rebounding from where it is now, because if we wait 6 months there will be no such news I am afraid.


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## Paco Dennis (May 26, 2022)

Nathan said:


> I think that all the World's 'empires' are on the short path to ruin.  The out-of-control cutthroat capitalism and out-of-sync political aspirations of the majors player worldwide will cost mankind dearly, in the long run.   However, coping with the Stone-age the 2nd time around shouldn't be quite as difficult, as long as the toilet paper mills stay functional.


It is anathema to say, but the BIG eastern countries are looking pretty good and the "west" is encouraging them to partner up. They might be able to get us through the climate crisis and all it's repercussions.

Our foreign policy has lead to this...

_4 days ago — Germany and Italy have allowed their energy companies to open accounts with Gazprombank to pay for Russian gas in rubles, reported Reuters._

This will continue to happen. Other countries near Russia will have to start paying in Rubles also.


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## Judycat (May 26, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> _Tut-tut is defined as *something said to show annoyance or to call someone on bad behavior*. An example of tut-tut is what someone says when talking about a congressman/_empire _who got caught in a sex scandal/_burning rome. _interjection._ Could you please explain? I am confused about your context. Thanks.


I find it annoying and presumptuous when the US is referred to as The American Empire.


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## Nathan (May 26, 2022)

Judycat said:


> I find it annoying and presumptuous when the US is referred to as The American Empire.


American policy has been aimed at extending the political, economic and cultural influence of the United States over areas beyond its boundaries(ie: Imperialism).  This is U.S.History / Foreign Affairs 101.  
*The American Empire over the last 150 years:*Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Philippines, the Northern Mariana Islands and American Samoa, as well as the Marshall Islands, Palau, and the Federated States of Micronesia.


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## Paco Dennis (May 26, 2022)

Judycat said:


> I find it annoying and presumptuous when the US is referred to as The American Empire.


This for information and engagement. No need to be offended. As for the reality of America being an Empire, do your own study and find out for yourself. I have, and I am convinced that is what it is and has been for quite awhile now. We could use other words that are much more nice like "spreading democracy", "nation building", "it is our destiny to help the world become a better more compassionate place". I don't believe those statements.


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## Murrmurr (May 26, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> As best I can tell the only information about what is really happening in Ukraine is propaganda.


Not if you go to the right sources: the Ukrainians and Russians who are actually there. These aren't journalists, they're citizens and soldiers. You'll find them easily on YouTube. I watch several almost daily. You'll hear this from them and that from the others, a lot like news at home, and you're free to decide who's perspective and reporting rings like truth or propaganda to you.


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## Murrmurr (May 26, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> We could use other words that are much more nice like "spreading democracy", "nation building", "it is our destiny to help the world become a better more compassionate place". I don't believe those statements.


That _is_ America's policy, however too many among the powerful go about it the wrong way with the wrong connections/people, and they continually thwart those who have less power but the right ideas.


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## Murrmurr (May 26, 2022)

Nathan said:


> American policy has been aimed at extending the political, economic and cultural influence of the United States over areas beyond its boundaries(ie: Imperialism).  This is U.S.History / Foreign Affairs 101.
> *The American Empire over the last 150 years:*Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Philippines, the Northern Mariana Islands and American Samoa, as well as the Marshall Islands, Palau, and the Federated States of Micronesia.


What are you specifically referring to with the US and the Federated States of Micronesia?

As far as I know, the toughest thing we did to the FSM and 15 other pacific island countries was to help create the South Pacific Tuna Treaty, a treaty that gave the US the task of training islanders how to keep complete, honest data, and to comply with monitoring and surveillance standards for the island’s fisheries, all of which has helped deter illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing.

As for military engagements, imo it's important to remember that the US hasn't entered into a military conflict alone since 2004, if I remember right. Since then, US military engagements have been part of coalition forces and NATO forces up until 2015, when the US entered Libya to aid in the fight against ISIS. And I believe that's still ongoing.

But I might have missed something...or forgotten something.


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## Murrmurr (May 26, 2022)

CrowFlies said:


> empires around the planet will go down.  ours will, we have way too many humans, we cant manage this.
> not enough food not enough land for it which is why they cut down the trees then go AG.
> then theres not enough water left now.
> 
> ...


Use your search engine to find out how much farmland the US has compared to other developed countries, and how much food it exports and imports. You might be surprised.

True, there's been less rainfall and snowfall in the west for well over a decade, and record-high rainfall, snowfall, and ice-storms in various middle and eastern states.


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## Murrmurr (May 27, 2022)

Nathan said:


> I think that all the World's 'empires' are on the short path to ruin.


That's ok, the US wasn't supposed to become an empire anyway.


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## Paco Dennis (May 27, 2022)

Lets here what Kissinger says about this...


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## Aunt Bea (May 27, 2022)

I support the money being spent to help Ukraine and appreciate how fortunate we are that the fight for democracy and freedom has historically been waged outside of the United States, but at some point, we need to pay for that luxury.

I suppose I'm part of the problem drawing more each month from the government than I contribute.

I'm willing to double down and pay my fair share if the rest of America is willing to do the same, but I'm afraid it has become a dog-eat-dog every man for himself world in recent years.

_"Don’t Tax You. Don’t Tax Me. Tax That Fellow Behind the Tree."_ - Russell B. Long


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## morgan (May 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> As best I can tell the only information about what is really happening in Ukraine is propaganda. That is also always a large activity during WAR. The fog of war....


Thanks for your reply. Russian propaganda has expanded its capabilities for years, tirelessly laying the groundwork for the massive and maniacal invasion of Ukraine. Sad but true, Russia has allies in the US. Henry Kissinger says Ukraine should cede territory to Russia to end the war. I never trusted him. He is thinking along the lines of Palestine ceding to Israel.
There is no propaganda on Ukraine’s part, there is no “fog of war” , it is true, it is happening, Putin wants to rebuild the Russian empire and is intent on destruction.My wife and I continue to pray for Ukraine.


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## Paco Dennis (May 27, 2022)

As a new day begins, I have no ax to grind here. I appreciate all/any info on this subject, and hope that that the war ends soon.


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## Pepper (May 27, 2022)

CrowFlies said:


> our gov let them do it.
> 
> the distractors will find ways to distract the people from the environment.


Oh, no, we're not getting off that easy.  WE did it; WE the People allowed for distraction and division, it was US and our government reflects the stupidity and greed of US.


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## Paco Dennis (May 27, 2022)

Here is the reason that America has 90% of military bases in the world.


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## Alligatorob (May 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Each of the recoveries involved having a thriving middle class. I don't see how we are going to put THAT humpty dumpty back together again. Please whenever possible...post good news about the middle class rebounding from where it is now, because if we wait 6 months there will be no such news I am afraid.


I did some research and you are right, at least according to the Pew Research Center, the middle class has shrunk from 61% in 1970 to 50% in 2021.  However much, not all, of that shrinkage came from movement to the upper class, 14% in 1970 to 21% in 2021.

Unfortunately the lower income group grew also from 25% to 29%.


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## oldman (May 27, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> ...The interest on the public debt for fiscal year 2021 is estimated to be $413 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO)....
> 
> That is just an INTEREST payment, no Principal/debt reduction from it!! Congress has signed a death warrant for America. Those growing up don't stand a chance! Our own government has condemned us!!!


According to the U.S. debt clock, the U.S. has already paid in $434 billion. Our debt ratio to GDP stands at 129%. It used to be when a country hit 78% of GDP, they were considered insolvent.

We have a $4+ trillion budget, but we spend $6+ trillion. The Congress looks at the treasury as a blank check. Every dollar we send to Ukraine is borrowed. I have asked this before, but here goes again, “Does any other country contribute money to Ukraine?” Not just weapons.

I am just a little guy compared to all the billionaires in this country. My tax bill this year was in excess of $10,000.00. This is the most I have ever paid in. Many new billionaires were created during the COVID crisis. The stock market presented many great buying opportunities.


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## Jackie23 (May 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Lets here what Kissinger says about this...


What a load of BS......no one pays Kissinger any attention for a good reason, the man is out of touch.


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## Jackie23 (May 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Here is the reason that America has 90% of military bases in the world.


Another BS video, you'd get a completely different answer if you ask the countries that host our military bases.  I'm a little weary of all the anti American crapola.


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## Paco Dennis (May 27, 2022)

Jackie23 said:


> What a load of BS......no one pays Kissinger any attention for a good reason, the man is out of touch.


That is knowing misinformation. Please stop it. Many people take Kissinger seriously. Geez!


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## Timewise 60+ (May 27, 2022)

CrowFlies said:


> this empire is over cuz wallst has stripped the entire land mass of resources leaving nothing but dirt
> dust and all thats broken in their wake.
> 
> our gov let them do it.  120 years is all it took to alter this continent for the next 1000years.
> ...


I disagree with this in so many ways that I cannot find enough time to detail it!  Let's just say your thought are difficult, at best, to support with facts...


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## Paco Dennis (May 27, 2022)

Jackie23 said:


> *Another BS video,* you'd get a completely different answer if you ask the countries that host our military bases.  I'm a little weary of all the anti American *crapola.*


Please cease with your *vitriol* attitude.... can you actually post some information about these countries whon ask us to have THAT many bases around the world. I will bet that the majority of countries in our world do not want our bases in their country. info please.


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## Timewise 60+ (May 27, 2022)

CrowFlies said:


> empires around the planet will go down.  ours will, we have way too many humans, we cant manage this.
> not enough food not enough land for it which is why they cut down the trees then go AG.
> then theres not enough water left now.
> 
> ...


Again, pure craziness....facts do not support your hypothesis!   Have you noticed the droughts over the last couple of years, especially in the west?  Water on our planet never leaves, it only changes form...think about it!


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## Paco Dennis (May 27, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> I disagree with this in so many ways that I cannot find enough time to detail it!  Let's just say your thought are difficult, at best, to support with facts...


*Corporations produce just about everything we buy, use, and throw away and play an outsized role in driving global climate change*. A recently published report identified that 100 energy companies have been responsible for 71% of all industrial emissions since human-driven climate change was officially recognized.

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/josh-axelrod/corporate-honesty-and-climate-change-time-own-and-act


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## Timewise 60+ (May 27, 2022)

Jackie23 said:


> Another BS video, you'd get a completely different answer if you ask the countries that host our military bases.  I'm a little weary of all the anti American crapola.


Jackie....I am glad someone else get's it!  I am a lot weary of all the anti American crapola!  I blame our educators on much of this as they have fed our kids for generations, lots of lies, misrepresentations and exaggerations about our history and country!


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## Paco Dennis (May 27, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Again, pure craziness....facts do not support your hypothesis!   Have you noticed the droughts over the last couple of years, especially in the west?  Water on our planet never leaves, it only changes form...think about it!


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## Timewise 60+ (May 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> *Corporations produce just about everything we buy, use, and throw away and play an outsized role in driving global climate change*. A recently published report identified that 100 energy companies have been responsible for 71% of all industrial emissions since human-driven climate change was officially recognized.
> 
> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/josh-axelrod/corporate-honesty-and-climate-change-time-own-and-act


Paco...ask yourself who in America owns our corporations!  You bet; we the American people own the Corporations...!  Do you own any stock, do you vote every year at the board meetings?  If you do, then YOU are the owner of that corporation...


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## Paco Dennis (May 27, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Jackie....I am glad someone else get's it!  I am a lot weary of all the anti American crapola!  I blame our educators on much of this as they have fed our kids for generations, lots of lies, misrepresentations and exaggerations about our history and country!


Yea, and it is of course American exceptionalism tht we were taught, until the famous book by Howard Zinn 

_"*A People's History of the United States* is a 1980 nonfiction book by American historian and political scientist Howard Zinn. In the book, Zinn presented what he considered to be a different side of history from the more traditional "fundamental nationalist glorification of country"._


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## Paco Dennis (May 27, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Paco...ask yourself who in America owns our corporations!  You bet; we the American people own the Corporations...!  Do you own any stock, do you vote every year at the board meetings?  If you do, then YOU are the owner of that corporation...


Study the history of corporations since the 80's and you will find that corporations no longer have to benefit the public, they are a major source of the trickle up economy. Why do CEO's make 1000 times what the worker makes?


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## fuzzybuddy (May 27, 2022)

I don't believe we need to put a "For Sale" sign on the US just yet. The  1950s, when the US won WWII, and were the only one with " The Bomb", plus  almost the sole  post-war intact industrial complex, are long passed. Today, most of the world lives above the poverty line. Regional economies are becoming global. And Americans faced the fact that 95% of the world's population does not live in the US. The US still has a technologically advanced military. But that suggests it exist because of a formidable foe. It might seem the American Empire is faltering. The nation is what it is, and subject to any label you want to attach to it. It's either the "best of time/worst of times".  Unless the populations is wiped out, it will exist. I believe the "American Empire" is a concept. It is a growing democratic amalgamation. It's on its way toward a global "NATO", and a "Global Union".


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## Timewise 60+ (May 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I did some research and you are right, at least according to the Pew Research Center, the middle class has shrunk from 61% in 1970 to 50% in 2021.  However much, not all, of that shrinkage came from movement to the upper class, 14% in 1970 to 21% in 2021.
> 
> Unfortunately the lower income group grew also from 25% to 29%.


Anyone recall the 'Babyboomers' the generations following WWII.  At the time, they were the largest segment of the population.  Guess what all those middle class families have been doing since the 50's?  Working, Going to School, advancing their careers, etc.   Now, 50+ years later a great many of them are upper middle class or higher...that is how this all happened, or at least a big part of it!


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## Timewise 60+ (May 27, 2022)

Empires typically have to be under a single supreme authority or controlled by one person...in America that is not and will never be true, thanks to the second Amendment!

I know, I know...you think the Roman Empire is an exception!  They were an Empire until the formed their Senate in 753BC.   Rome is said to have begun around 27BC and lasted until 476AD.  1,000 appx. years!  But, 726 of those years were without a Senate, they were controlled by one person as we say the Roman Empire...  Rome stopped being an empire when they formed their Senate in 753BC..  

But the USA has had a Senate, in its current form, since 1789!


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## Alligatorob (May 27, 2022)

Another interesting graph from The Atlantic Monthly.

It would be interesting to know the primary drivers behind the growing lower income class.  That does concern me, but without a good understanding as to why I wouldn't really know what best to do about it.


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## Alligatorob (May 27, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Anyone recall the 'Babyboomers' the generations following WWII. At the time, they were the largest segment of the population. Guess what all those middle class families have been doing since the 50's? Working, Going to School, advancing their careers, etc. Now, 50+ years later a great many of them are upper middle class or higher...that is how this all happened, or at least a big part of it!


I believe you are right about the upper classes, why do you think the lower income group is growing?


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## Warrigal (May 27, 2022)

I dispute the the notion that US is an imperial power. IMO the word hegemony is more appropriate. It is about influence and last century was the century of the American hegemony. US has never ruled over Australia but the American influence can be seen everywhere, especially when it comes to foreign policy and popular entertainment. 

The British Empire was a real thing in that we were bound to Great Britain by law, first as a colony, or more accurately a number of colonies that  were later granted the status of states, before becoming an independent nation but the British hegemony lasted until WW II.


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## Timewise 60+ (May 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I believe you are right about the upper classes, why do you think the lower income group is growing?


Immigration both illegal and legal.  Plus, as a society, we still have not figured out how to break the cycle of poverty amongst our poor.  Johnson's Great Society was a bust!


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## Knight (May 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


>


Do you have similar charts for other countries?
During your lifetime have you enjoyed any of the benefits of the chart you present as being destructive?

I have enjoyed a lifetime of what capitalism has made possible for me. Can it continue ?  I doubt it.

When it will collapse I haven't a clue, but I am certain collapse will happen since the deficit is IMO huge.  The U.S. budget deficit is projected to fall to *$1 trillion* in 2022. The Congressional Budget Office provided an update on the path for deficits at a moment when the Federal Reserve is trying to cool the economy to tame rapid inflation.

I think presenting the deficit to fall to one trillion as a serious reduction is an attempt to put lip stick on a pig. 

I think everyone knows debt isn't bad until you can't pay for it. One trillion dollars of deficit not likely to be paid down any time soon.

A facetious question. Looking forward what politicians are going to propose cuts in spending and increasing taxes?


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## Paco Dennis (May 27, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Immigration both illegal and legal.  Plus, as a society, we still have not figured out how to break the cycle of poverty amongst our poor.  Johnson's Great Society was a bust!


*The Act provided better access to home mortgages and a rent-subsidy program*_. Johnson's Great Society policies birthed Medicare, Medicaid, the Older Americans Act, and the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) of 1965. All of which remain government programs in 2021._


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## Timewise 60+ (May 27, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> *The Act provided better access to home mortgages and a rent-subsidy program*_. Johnson's Great Society policies birthed Medicare, Medicaid, the Older Americans Act, and the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) of 1965. All of which remain government programs in 2021._


For my money these 'Socialized' programs are a bust! In case you noticed, today they all are part of the federal spending that is either borrowing money, primarily from China, or printing new money to fund these programs and others...our society cannot continue to spend money we do not have...what about that do you not understand?


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## Pepper (May 27, 2022)

You can help @Timewise 60+ by giving up or donating your SS and Medicare.  It seems you don't need it anyway, else you wouldn't be complaining these programs exist.  Put your money where your mouth is?


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## Jeni (May 27, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> For my money these 'Socialized' programs are a bust! In case you noticed, today they all are part of the federal spending that is either borrowing money, primarily from China, or printing new money to fund these programs and others...our society cannot continue to spend money we do not have...what about that do you not understand?


government programs never die and seldom work as intended.....


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## Timewise 60+ (May 27, 2022)

Jeni said:


> government programs never die and seldom work as intended.....


Jeni...Bingo you get the prize!  Sad, but true!


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## JaniceM (May 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I believe you are right about the upper classes, why do you think the lower income group is growing?


(hopefully this won't count as politics)

Welfare Reform.  
Craploads of too-young, unskilled single parents in the workforce.


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## Timewise 60+ (May 27, 2022)

Pepper said:


> You can help @Timewise 60+ by giving up or donating your SS and Medicare.  It seems you don't need it anyway, else you wouldn't be complaining these programs exist.  Put your money where your mouth is?


Now that's a pretty shallow comment!  With a little economics under your bonnet you might have some idea of what the heck I was saying!  I guess you prefer the government supporting you...

I will not dignify your post with a specific reply!


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## Don M. (May 27, 2022)

Jeni said:


> government programs never die and seldom work as intended.....


I've been convinced, for years, that at least 1/3rd of our tax dollars are wasted on government mismanagement and inefficiency.  Many of their plans look good on paper, but seldom work in reality.


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## Murrmurr (May 27, 2022)

oldman said:


> According to the U.S. debt clock, the U.S. has already paid in $434 billion. Our debt ratio to GDP stands at 129%. It used to be when a country hit 78% of GDP, they were considered insolvent.
> 
> We have a $4+ trillion budget, but we spend $6+ trillion. The Congress looks at the treasury as a blank check. Every dollar we send to Ukraine is borrowed. I have asked this before, but here goes again, *“Does any other country contribute money to Ukraine?”* Not just weapons.
> 
> I am just a little guy compared to all the billionaires in this country. My tax bill this year was in excess of $10,000.00. This is the most I have ever paid in. Many new billionaires were created during the COVID crisis. The stock market presented many great buying opportunities.


European NATO countries have been relying on the US to intervene or support them militarily if needed, for decades. After Russia invaded Ukraine, most, if not all of those countries are now building up their own military with their own money. I know Poland and Germany are contributing heavily to Ukraine - military equipment, refugee status, and humanitarian goods - and I _think_ Italy gave them some planes. Not sure about that, it's something my brother told me.

Re:COVID - the US wasted many billions of dollars during the pandemic, and millions of small businesses went under.


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## Jeni (May 27, 2022)

Don M. said:


> I've been convinced, for years, that at least 1/3rd of our tax dollars are wasted on government mismanagement and inefficiency.  Many of their plans look good on paper, but seldom work in reality.


absolutely the waste in how these programs is run is amazing ....... 
in any business type situation people would evaluate " IS THIS WORKING as proposed? "      and then make adjustments ...
 government adds layers and hoops and loopholes making the Original intent meaningless.


----------



## Alligatorob (May 27, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Welfare Reform.
> Craploads of too-young, unskilled single parents in the workforce.


Thanks Janice, and I think this does fit into what's being allowed.

Are you saying that welfare reform has dumped too many unskilled people into the workforce?  

Or that welfare has encouraged growth of a government dependent lower class?


----------



## JaniceM (May 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Thanks Janice, and I think this does fit into what's being allowed.
> 
> Are you saying that welfare reform has dumped too many unskilled people into the workforce?
> 
> Or that welfare has encouraged growth of a government dependent lower class?


Both.  
But I don't necessarily think long-term dependence on the government is always intentional.  When young people cut their educations short, it can be difficult or impossible for them to resume it and get ahead.


----------



## Murrmurr (May 27, 2022)

Knight said:


> A facetious question. Looking forward what politicians are going to propose cuts in spending and increasing taxes?


A good question, actually.

The politician who finally talks real. Do you think enough Americans are finally ready to elect that person? S/he would have to be exceptionally creative to sway public thinking, because it seems that hard facts are not very convincing.


----------



## Murrmurr (May 27, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Both.
> But I don't necessarily think long-term dependence on the government is always intentional.  When young people cut their educations short, *it can be difficult or impossible for them to resume it and get ahead.*


Do you think that's intentional, or political short-shortsightedness?

There are programs that offer free job skills training and job preparedness, but you don't hear much about them from social workers at the welfare office.


----------



## Jeni (May 27, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Both.
> But I don't necessarily think long-term dependence on the government is always intentional.  When young people cut their educations short, it can be difficult or impossible for them to resume it and get ahead.


maybe not intentional but once you go down the rabbit hole ... many never return to being self reliant.   
The requirements and limits of what you can do makes people chose to stay on program then going out on their own even with enough education to have a self supporting job....

There are IMO far too many programs that would suggest it is not that hard to complete an education  ... depends on if you KNOW and can FIND the PROGRAMS out there

i know of 3 ladies whom have done NOTHING but go to school for over a decade.......... on the governments dime .... 
Let that sink in a decade .. the kids they hope to support FOUND jobs before MOM did. 
all with the idea to make them eligible for a decent paying job but now 2 are at master level of education with ZERO experience ... 
so offered same a a BS  in pay so why do we continue to pay for year after year of school if their $$ amount is unchanged ?


----------



## helenbacque (May 27, 2022)

oldman said:


> *Every dollar we send to Ukraine is borrowed. *


Every dollar we spent in Iraq and Afghanistan was also borrowed.  What % of our current budget is debt service alone?

"This year, the federal government will spend *$300 billion* on interest payments on the national debt. This is the equivalent of nearly *9 percent of all federal revenue collection *and over *$2,400 per household. *The federal government spends more on interest than on science, space, and technology; transportation; and education combined. The household share of federal interest is larger than average household spending on many typical expenditures, including gas, clothing, education, or personal care."

https://www.crfb.org/papers/how-high-are-federal-interest-payments


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## Murrmurr (May 27, 2022)

Jeni said:


> maybe not intentional but once you go down the rabbit hole ... many never return to being self reliant.
> The requirements and limits of what you can do makes people chose to stay on program then going out on their own even with enough education to have a self supporting job....
> 
> There are IMO far too many programs that would suggest it is not that hard to complete an education  ... depends on if you KNOW and can FIND the PROGRAMS out there
> ...


Yeah, I edited my comment to add - There are programs that offer free job skills training and job preparedness, but you don't hear much about them from social workers at the welfare office.

Also, the EDD, Employment Development Dept, used to focus on job assistance. Now they just hand out application forms for welfare and soc-sec disability. Seriously, that's it....it's all they do.


----------



## Jeni (May 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Yeah, I edited that comment to add - There are programs that offer free job skills training and job preparedness, but you don't hear much about them from social workers at the welfare office.
> 
> Also, the EDD, Employment Development Dept, used to focus on job assistance. Now they just hand out application forms for welfare and soc-sec disability. Seriously, that's it....it's all they do.


exactly what use to be employees trying to help you ....
most NOW just tell you what hoops to jump through to get this or that like cheat codes on a video game IMO


----------



## Pepper (May 27, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Now that's a pretty shallow comment!  With a little economics under your bonnet you might have some idea of what the heck I was saying!  I guess you prefer the government supporting you...
> 
> *I will not dignify your post with a specific reply!*


Could you promise that in perpetuity?  That's an offer I can't refuse.


----------



## Pepper (May 27, 2022)

Jeni said:


> government programs never die and seldom work as intended.....


Did you take a poll?  The government programs that help me HELP ME! and I'd be up schitt's creek without them.  The problem is the bs one must go through for acceptance.  I had a judge apologize to me for what I was put through, & stalled (his words) as I was so obviously in need.


----------



## Murrmurr (May 27, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Now that's a pretty shallow comment!  With a little economics under your bonnet you might have some idea of what the heck I was saying!  I guess you prefer the government supporting you...
> *
> I will not dignify your post with a specific reply!*


If you had, I guarantee it would have been an interesting, enlightening discussion.


----------



## ohioboy (May 27, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Could you promise that in perpetuity?  That's an offer I can't refuse.


Or as they say in the recycle business "I'm gonna make you an offer you can reuse"!


----------



## Murrmurr (May 27, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Did you take a poll?  The government programs that help me HELP ME! and I'd be up schitt's creek without them.  The problem is the bs one must go through for acceptance.  I had a judge apologize to me for what I was put through, & stalled (his words) as I was so obviously in need.


Yeah, some government programs actually do work, some do indeed die, and many don't go far enough to help long-term. Those are the ones that need reform.


----------



## Jeni (May 27, 2022)

oldman said:


> Every dollar we send to Ukraine is borrowed.


I would like all taxpayers to try to look at this like their OWN life .....   a friend or neighbor needs some help ... 
would you if possible take out another mortgage on YOUR house to give them .....?   
the answer would be clear ....no .... i could help in small ways but not digging myself in a hole except for my family ...



Pepper said:


> Did you take a poll? The government programs that help me HELP ME! and I'd be up schitt's creek without them. The problem is the bs one must go through for acceptance. I had a judge apologize to me for what I was put through, & stalled (his words) as I was so obviously in need.


of course Some folks like yourself have had difficult time for some program...... and some recipients ARE in need of and helped by programs 
There is npo ONE SIZE fits ALL .....

the problem lies in  the assumptions either way..............  
one way of looking at it is most are deserving so close your eyes to the fraud or the abuse 
 i am speaking of the years of experience with people who WORK the system to their advantage and seemingly no one is watching ............

I can not tell you who is going to have hearings and hoops to jump through ........while others............ i have ACTUALLY seen happen ......... walk out with not one  program ............but hooked to several  programs......... and more then they even asked for when signing up .....


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## Jackie23 (May 27, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Jackie....I am glad someone else get's it!  I am a lot weary of all the anti American crapola!  I blame our educators on much of this as they have fed our kids for generations, lots of lies, misrepresentations and exaggerations about our history and country!


Yeah well, I'd be in trouble with Matrix if I told you who I blame for the most misinformation circulating our country day in and day out.
I see this thread has trickled down to all the "big bad socialist
giveaway programs" It's so hard to know just what will do our empire in.


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## Knight (May 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Yeah, some government programs actually do work, some do indeed die, and many don't go far enough to help long-term. Those are the ones that need reform.


Sorting out the ones that don't work will take an  effort outside government. Then deciding what to do with the government employees that would lose their job another tough decision. 

I should qualify my post about job loss. I don't know if getting a government job is one that is  for life if a person is satisfied with what they applied for, or loss of employment due to change is possible.


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## Murrmurr (May 27, 2022)

Knight said:


> Sorting out the ones that don't work will take an  effort outside government. Then deciding what to do with the government employees that would lose their job another tough decision.
> 
> I should qualify my post about job loss. I don't know if getting a government job is one that is  for life if a person is satisfied with what they applied for, or loss of employment due to change is possible.


Changes do result in job loss except for employees who can be transferred to another department.

"Sorting out the ones that don't work will take an effort outside government" -- and gov't isn't at all keen on outside efforts even when they're logical and cost-effective. I don't think they even take suggestions.


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## SeniorBen (May 27, 2022)

Healthcare is one area where the private sector has failed miserably in the U.S. We pay more than any other developed nation, yet we often get substandard care. Private insurance companies operate with up to a 20% overhead, which means that one out of every five dollars you pay for private healthcare insurance goes to the insurance companies rather to your actual care. It used to be even worse before the ACA limited insurance company overhead.

Medicare, on the other hand, operates with a 4% overhead. That The biggest problems with Medicare and Medicaid are private companies screwing them over with fraudulent claims and charges.

So the problem isn't "socialism;" it's corrupted capitalism. Capitalism fails miserably when it is relied on for services that are essential to all of our lives because it exists — not to provide for the common good but to generate profits and to enrich stockholders.

You wouldn't want the government to design and manufacture the cars we drive because they would wind up looking like something out of the Soviet Union. On the other hand, you don't want private companies deciding what surgical procedures you can have when denying you coverage whenever possible is integral to their business model.


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## CrowFlies (May 27, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Healthcare is one area where the private sector has failed miserably in the U.S. We pay more than any other developed nation, yet we often get substandard care. Private insurance companies operate with up to a 20% overhead, which means that one out of every five dollars you pay for private healthcare insurance goes to the insurance companies rather to your actual care. It used to be even worse before the ACA limited insurance company overhead.
> 
> Medicare, on the other hand, operates with a 4% overhead. That The biggest problems with Medicare and Medicaid are *private companies screwing them over with fraudulent claims and charges.
> 
> ...


yes i agree fully.  capitalism hasnt done much for the people while its generating vast amounts of dinero for a few.

the amounts big corps have sucked in the last two years is astounding meanwhile the people are running out
of nearly everything.  food water housing gas etc etc.  let alone med costs.

this Is the goal of capitalizm: more for the rich.  ive never liked it.
the greater good is not something capitalizm deals with.


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## SeniorBen (May 27, 2022)

CrowFlies said:


> yes i agree fully.  capitalism hasnt done much for the people while its generating vast amounts of dinero for a few.
> 
> the amounts big corps have sucked in the last two years is astounding meanwhile the people are running out
> of nearly everything.  food water housing gas etc etc.  let alone med costs.
> ...


Capitalism is great when it's well regulated. The free market destroys society.


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## Nathan (May 27, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> What are you specifically referring to with the US and the Federated States of Micronesia?


The FSM was formerly a part of the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands (TTPI), a United Nations Trust Territory under *U.S. administration*, but it formed its own constitutional government on May 10, 1979. Perhaps that's a stretch to include the FSM as being part of the "American Empire".


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## chic (May 28, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Capitalism is great when it's well regulated. The free market destroys society.


That's it. It's no longer properly regulated so there is no competition and few control everything which is not capitalism.


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## Timewise 60+ (May 28, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Did you take a poll?  The government programs that help me HELP ME! and I'd be up schitt's creek without them.  The problem is the bs one must go through for acceptance.  I had a judge apologize to me for what I was put through, & stalled (his words) as I was so obviously in need.


Now that kind of says it all...


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## Timewise 60+ (May 28, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> If you had, I guarantee it would have been an interesting, enlightening discussion.


Depends on your definition of interesting and enlightening...to each his/her own!


----------



## Timewise 60+ (May 28, 2022)

chic said:


> That's it. It's no longer properly regulated so there is no competition and few control everything which is not capitalism.


Chic...you are close!  We are OVERREGULATED now!  These reg's limit competition, which is destructive to free market capitalism...


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## Timewise 60+ (May 28, 2022)

CrowFlies said:


> yes i agree fully.  capitalism hasnt done much for the people while its generating vast amounts of dinero for a few.
> 
> the amounts big corps have sucked in the last two years is astounding meanwhile the people are running out
> of nearly everything.  food water housing gas etc etc.  let alone med costs.
> ...


Those who have studied capitalism know that is was not meant to be a perfect system. No such thing as an economic system that is perfect.   It was meant to be a better system than Socialism or Communism giving economic power to the individual, instead of having it controlled by a cental power.  Capitalism has proven over the years to work!  Is it perfect, no!  

Look at what Americans have compared to the rest of the world, go back as far as you want and do some comparisons.    Sweden used to be thought of as an exception where Socialism seemed to work well...but in recent years they seem to be in trouble with massive inflation and shortages of many products.    

If you REALLY believe Russia, China, France, etc. have better economies for the people who live their, do some real research.  Talk to some people who have lived in these countries.  I have seen these places and worked with people from these countries.  They all want to come and live in America.   I have not yet met one, that prefers where they live to America.  Part of this experience was working for a Swedish company that had international operations, including China and Russia.  Even the Swedish people, really preferred America.  Their main complaint was they could not afford to buy anything in Sweden, things were so expensive.  Medical care was free, but you had to get in line, sometimes to a dangerous point.    

All most all European's live in apartments or condo type homes.  They can only dream about someday having a home with their own property.   Wake up folks...you are being brain washed by our media and educators...in this world the USA is the best place to live!


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## Warrigal (May 28, 2022)

Ya reckon, Timewise? Cast your eyes south of the Equator to Australia and New Zealand. 
Hard to find anyone down here who thinks USA is the best place to live.


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## chic (May 28, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Chic...you are close!  We are OVERREGULATED now!  These reg's limit competition, which is destructive to free market capitalism...


I was thinking more in terms of breaking up monopolies.


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## Murrmurr (May 28, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Chic...you are close!  We are OVERREGULATED now!  These reg's limit competition, which is destructive to free market capitalism...


Depends on how you define PROPERLY regulated. Safe to assume, at least for most, that by _properly_ regulated, Chic meant _fairly_ regulated; an even playing field; the original free-enterprise capitalism that allowed America's progress and growth to surpass other nations so rapidly. 

Tragically, the free-enterprise capitalist system became corrupted by greed. There's no free-enterprise in our capitalist system now. There's only capital. And that's due to improper regulations, created by wealthy politicians and legislators, that favor the wealthy.


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## Aunt Bea (May 28, 2022)

IMO capitalism is alive and well in America just ask folks like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc...

I do believe that free-market capitalism could use some work.

I agree with Chic that it may be time to take a hard look at some of the too-big-to-fail companies that control the production of many goods and services.  

An example might be the recent baby formula debacle, maybe being dependent on one company for 40% of the country's needs is too much if not properly regulated.  

I hate to see America going hat in hand to other countries for basic things like baby formula and oil.


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## rgp (May 28, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> Ya reckon, Timewise? Cast your eyes south of the Equator to Australia and New Zealand.
> Hard to find anyone down here who thinks USA is the best place to live.




  And yet ...... whether it is tennis players, golfers, rock&roll groups, movie actors, racecar drivers , big finance, Et al ...... They all come here ...... to make it big. And in the case of catastrophy , invasion, etc .... who does the world expect to ride-in on their white horse and save the day ?? The U.S.A.


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## dseag2 (May 28, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> I support the money being spent to help Ukraine and appreciate how fortunate we are that the fight for democracy and freedom has historically been waged outside of the United States, but at some point, we need to pay for that luxury.
> 
> I suppose I'm part of the problem drawing more each month from the government than I contribute.
> 
> ...


While I agree with your view, I contributed lots of money to the government during the 40+ years I was employed and don't mind having them contribute back to me in my Golden Years.  It is only a small pittance of what I point in, so we are not part of the problem.

And we can still contribute, even if those around us are not willing to do so.  I've contributed to Chef Jose Andres Ukraine initiative.  Every time I go to the grocery store, I contribute to families in need and various other charities.  I consider myself extremely fortunate and I think the least I can do is give to others who aren't.


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## Timewise 60+ (May 29, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> Ya reckon, Timewise? Cast your eyes south of the Equator to Australia and New Zealand.
> Hard to find anyone down here who thinks USA is the best place to live.


I made it clear in my comments that I was speaking about Europe.  I have not worked with anyone from Australia or New Zealand.  Nor have I visited either location...   Therefore, I take your word for what you say.


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## Alligatorob (May 29, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Did you take a poll? The government programs that help me HELP ME! and I'd be up schitt's creek without them.


Good point, I tend to be a skeptic about government programs but some have been helpful to me.  Of late I am appreciating Medicare, spent more on medical costs in the past 2 or 3 years than in my whole life before.  It would have been hard for me to pay these without.

And of course all of the government services and the like, from police to roads...


----------



## ElCastor (May 29, 2022)

CrowFlies said:


> empires around the planet will go down.  ours will, we have way too many humans, we cant manage this.


The US fertility rate (births per woman) is well below replacement rate, as is the case in the rest of the developed world. If our population is growing it is for two reasons, a wave of women born when our fertility rate was above replacement, and immigration. Without immigration, our population will decline as it is in Italy, Japan, and the rest of the developed world. It is inevitable! Immigration is a product of an undeveloped world that is growing faster than its land mass and economies can support. Doubt me? Use a search engine to look up world fertility rates. You will be shocked at what you find.


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## horseless carriage (May 29, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> The US fertility rate (births per woman) is well below replacement rate, as is the case in the rest of the developed world. If our population is growing it is for two reasons, a wave of women born when our fertility rate was above replacement, and immigration. Without immigration, our population will decline as it is in Italy, Japan, and the rest of the developed world. It is inevitable! Immigration is a product of an undeveloped world that is growing faster than its land mass and economies can support. Doubt me? Use a search engine to look up world fertility rates. You will be shocked at what you find.


While married couples with children were the majority decades ago, now nearly 57 percent of U.S. households are childless.
Check out Reuters findings. I'm shocked, truly.


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## Shalimar (May 29, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Those who have studied capitalism know that is was not meant to be a perfect system. No such thing as an economic system that is perfect.   It was meant to be a better system than Socialism or Communism giving economic power to the individual, instead of having it controlled by a cental power.  Capitalism has proven over the years to work!  Is it perfect, no!
> 
> Look at what Americans have compared to the rest of the world, go back as far as you want and do some comparisons.    Sweden used to be thought of as an exception where Socialism seemed to work well...but in recent years they seem to be in trouble with massive inflation and shortages of many products.
> 
> ...


Not according to Canucks. We like our American neighbours, but we love living in Canada.


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## ElCastor (May 29, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> While married couples with children were the majority decades ago, now nearly 57 percent of U.S. households are childless.
> Check out Reuters findings. I'm shocked, truly.


For a country to just maintain its population requires a fertility rate (births per woman) of 2.15 or 2.2. Above that it grows. Less, and it declines.
Those countries with a declining population find themselves in a demographic disaster as an elderly non-productive percentage of the population increases and the younger portion shrinks.

 Here are some typical rates in the developed world:
United States 1.84
Canada 1.57
Germany 1.57
Italy 1.22
Japan 1.38
China 1.45
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/total-fertility-rate/country-comparison

So how are these countries with shrinking populations thriving?
"Italian town of Cammarata offers free houses to lure new residents"
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/italy-cammarata-free-houses/index.html
"Japan’s Incredibly Shrinking Population Is a Big Problem"
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/02/japans-incredibly-shrinking-population-is-a-big-problem/
"As Birthrate Falls, South Korea’s Population Declines, Posing Threat to Economy"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/04/world/asia/south-korea-population.html


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## morgan (May 29, 2022)

Most Newfies like myself like America but let’s face it, the US is in an age of declinism. There was a time when the country was looked up to but now the complaints are endless. Wages are abysmal, productivity growth is hitting the wall, one reason being, companies aren’t competitive in global markets. Infrastructure is collapsing, the health system is deteriorating, schools are unsafe and very little is being done to make them safe. The cities are becoming more and more unsafe and economic disparity increasing daily. 
There is no American empire. That disappeared a long time ago (that is assuming there was ever one).


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## Don M. (May 29, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> For a country to just maintain its population requires a fertility rate (births per woman) of 2.15 or 2.2. Above that it grows. Less, and it declines.
> Those countries with a declining population find themselves in a demographic disaster as an elderly non-productive percentage of the population increases and the younger portion shrinks.


This may be one reason why illegal immigration is increasing, and no real solutions are being implemented to slow it down.  There aren't enough "White" babies being born in the U.S, and Europe to sustain and grow our economies.  We are having to rely, more and more, on these immigrants to do the work that needs to be done....especially anything that requires manual/physical labor.


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## Timewise 60+ (May 30, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> Not according to Canucks. We like our American neighbours, but we love living in Canada.


Notice my only discussion was about Europe!  Not Canada!


----------



## fuzzybuddy (May 30, 2022)

1902, and the "Great White Fleet" may have started the" American Century", yet I think Vietnam finally killed the concept of an "American Empire".  And subsequently, we found that military might doesn't solve all problems. And the only way the US significantly grew was through immigration. Also, the rest of the planet has not stood still, it's not post WWII anymore. 92% have internet access. 80% live above the poverty line. The issues that some see as the end of the American Empire are the issues all industrial developed nations face.


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## chic (May 30, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Depends on how you define PROPERLY regulated. Safe to assume, at least for most, that by _properly_ regulated, Chic meant _fairly_ regulated; an even playing field; the original free-enterprise capitalism that allowed America's progress and growth to surpass other nations so rapidly.
> 
> Tragically, the free-enterprise capitalist system became corrupted by greed. There's no free-enterprise in our capitalist system now. There's only capital. And that's due to improper regulations, created by wealthy politicians and legislators, that favor the wealthy.


That's it in a nutshell but why do we allow this to continue?


----------



## Murrmurr (May 30, 2022)

chic said:


> That's it in a nutshell but why do we allow this to continue?


Aside from re-electing the same career politicians, it isn't us who are _allowing_ this to happen. We simply don't have the power to effect change. That will take a whole lot more than filling out a voter's ballot.


----------



## chic (May 30, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Aside from re-electing the same career politicians, it isn't us who are _allowing_ this to happen. We simply don't have the power to effect change. That will take a whole lot more than filling out a voter's ballot.


I agree. But we have allowed this to happen. Slowly perhaps, but we are too uncomplaining and compliant. The Canadian truckers changed  things in a hurry a few months ago by taking action and it did work or we might all be facing forced vaccinations, constant monitoring and digital IDs right now. The fact that we are not shows that defiance does work. We're just not doing doing it enough or consistently.


----------



## Murrmurr (May 30, 2022)

chic said:


> I agree. But we have allowed this to happen. Slowly perhaps, but we are too uncomplaining and compliant. The Canadian truckers changed  things in a hurry a few months ago by taking action and it did work or we might all be facing forced vaccinations, constant monitoring and digital IDs right now. The fact that we are not shows that defiance does work. We're just not doing doing it enough or consistently.


"we have allowed this to happen" is true in that most people believed the promises and phony altruism of our elected officials for too long. The reason I don't blame "us" entirely is because our power was taken away so slowly, it was imperceptible to the majority of us, and, of course, a majority is all our elected officials ever needed.

But there's great significance in the fact that those same elected officials gave themselves the power to make decisions that we aren't even privy to. Decisions that don't go on a ballot and aren't even made public. Some of those decisions gave elected officials even more power, some ensured they would keep their power and positions and tax-funded benefits for a lifetime, and some made some of our powers illegal.

But you're right, we became a complacent society, and virtually powerless.


----------



## chic (May 31, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> "we have allowed this to happen" is true in that most people believed the promises and phony altruism of our elected officials for too long. The reason I don't blame "us" entirely is because our power was taken away so slowly, it was imperceptible to the majority of us, and, of course, a majority is all our elected officials ever needed.
> 
> But there's great significance in the fact that those same elected officials gave themselves the power to make decisions that we aren't even privy to. Decisions that don't go on a ballot and aren't even made public. Some of those decisions gave elected officials even more power, some ensured they would keep their power and positions and tax-funded benefits for a lifetime, and some made some of our powers illegal.
> 
> But you're right, we became a complacent society, and virtually powerless.


But the one thing, perhaps the most important thing, is we HAVE allowed them to divide us. Our numbers alone would be intimidating had we not done so, if we had remained united. We've been herded into groups, the good people vs the bad people, but I refuse to see it this way. We are all Americans and part of the human family. Allowing ourselves to become divided is our downfall and it's not new. The Roman Empire did it successfully for over 500 years.


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## Timewise 60+ (May 31, 2022)

I am much more optimistic about the American economy than most I read here.  

I have lived a long while and was fortunate to travel around the world as part of my job.  My perspective is that we have a much better economy and lifestyle than most of the world.  We still rank #1 in GDP based on the US & World Economies which is one of the primary measures of economic health.    

Granted we are in a downturn now, but you have to look to DC to understand why that is going on.  Our Politicians and Press have been out of control for some time, but the American people, over time...push through much of that rhetoric and continue to produce goods and services.  Our politicians and media frequently criticize the U.S. economy such as call for higher minimum wages.  Minium wages are only critical economically, to a country that has a large portion of the country on minimum wages. This is all political and not tied to real economic motivations...   In the USA only 2.8% of our worker are earning minimum wage.  In Canada that number is 8.8% and in France it is 12% (all estimates for 2019/2020).    

Although, over the years, we have given away much of our economic freedom by allowing more foreign countries to participate in our economy. Therefore, we are more reliant on a Global Economy than ever before.  The difficulty is that what we as individuals see locally are not necessarily reality for the country.  Add to that the constant lies and misrepresentations by the media and politicians...it is no wonder that many feel things are getting bad.  

I just don't believe most of it...!   Vote often, know who you are voting for!  We can win that war, if we show up and know exactly what we are doing when we vote!


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## SeniorBen (May 31, 2022)

The U.S. economy is strong!


----------



## Paco Dennis (May 31, 2022)

What concerns me is that China and India have remained neutral, and the US is spending massive amounts of money on this war. I fear we are digging our own grave if we keep printing trillions of dollars we don't have. There could be a complete change in the worlds leading currency even. This article is written by an Indian professor and should be considered.

_"India is creating a new world order _​_The West claims that Putin’s war against Ukraine means that Russia is now isolated by the international community.  But in fact, the exact opposite is happening. Most of the world is either pro-Russia or neutral with regards to the war in Ukraine. India’s neutral stance is critical to this international balance of power. And while India’s historical ties with Russia go a long way to explain the current situation, it is also India’s vision for the future that’s informing its attitude. Along with China and Russia, India is aiming to bring about an end to western global hegemony, and usher in a new era of a multipolar international order, argues Chris Ogden." _

https://iai.tv/articles/india-is-creating-a-new-world-order-auid-2118


----------



## Murrmurr (May 31, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> What concerns me is that China and India have remained neutral, and the US is spending massive amounts of money on this war. I fear we are digging our own grave if we keep printing trillions of dollars we don't have. There could be a complete change in the worlds leading currency even. This article is written by an Indian professor and should be considered.
> 
> _"India is creating a new world order _​_The West claims that Putin’s war against Ukraine means that Russia is now isolated by the international community.  But in fact, the exact opposite is happening. Most of the world is either pro-Russia or neutral with regards to the war in Ukraine. India’s neutral stance is critical to this international balance of power. And while India’s historical ties with Russia go a long way to explain the current situation, it is also India’s vision for the future that’s informing its attitude. Along with China and Russia, India is aiming to bring about an end to western global hegemony, and usher in a new era of a multipolar international order, argues Chris Ogden." _
> 
> https://iai.tv/articles/india-is-creating-a-new-world-order-auid-2118


I don't characterize China and India as neutral. The CCP has definite geopolitical and economical goals, and India wants a ride with the "winning" side no matter who it appears to be at any given time. I can sympathize; India's problems seem endless and insurmountable, but its PM is wrong to believe there's a quick fix, and extremely careless to rely on one.


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## Shalimar (May 31, 2022)

chic said:


> I agree. But we have allowed this to happen. Slowly perhaps, but we are too uncomplaining and compliant. The Canadian truckers changed  things in a hurry a few months ago by taking action and it did work or we might all be facing forced vaccinations, constant monitoring and digital IDs right now. The fact that we are not shows that defiance does work. We're just not doing doing it enough or consistently.


Excuse me, but they changed very little of note. Seditious attempts and threats of violence do not go over well in my country. This subject hits a sore spot for most Canucks, I shall politely leave this thread. Have a great day.


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## Murrmurr (May 31, 2022)

morgan said:


> Most Newfies like myself like America but let’s face it, the US is in an age of declinism. There was a time when the country was looked up to but now the complaints are endless. Wages are abysmal, productivity growth is hitting the wall, one reason being, companies aren’t competitive in global markets. Infrastructure is collapsing, the health system is deteriorating, schools are unsafe and very little is being done to make them safe. The cities are becoming more and more unsafe and economic disparity increasing daily.
> *There is no American empire. That disappeared a long time ago (that is assuming there was ever one).*


True, America isn't an Empire, never was, and wasn't ever intended to be. America's founding fathers despised empires, and created governing documents they hoped would prevent any type of empirical tyranny, external and internal.


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## chic (May 31, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> Excuse me, but they changed very little of note. Seditious attempts and threats of violence do not go over well in my country. This subject hits a sore spot for most Canucks, I shall politely leave this thread. Have a great day.


They inspired truckers all over the world to drive to their capitol cities in protest of mandates and the mandate talk suddenly stopped. I would say that was very effective.


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## Paco Dennis (May 31, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> True, America isn't an Empire, never was, and wasn't ever intended to be. America's founding fathers despised empires, and created governing documents they hoped would prevent any type of empirical tyranny, external and internal.


As with most every aspect of our lives we cannot agree on this topic. I don't know if the US is an Empire or not.What if we only discussed the facts? How is an empire defined.

_Is the United States technically an empire?


The federal government of the United States has never referred to its territories as an empire, but some commentators refer to it as such, including Max Boot, Arthur Schlesinger, and Niall Ferguson._

So the facts are out there , it is each person's opinion of the facts. Our emotions seem to over ride the facts.  Here is an example concerning this thread.


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## Murrmurr (May 31, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> *As with most every aspect of our lives we cannot agree on this topic.* I don't know if the US is an Empire or not.What if we only discussed the facts? How is an empire defined.
> 
> _Is the United States technically an empire?
> 
> ...


Re: that bit I highlighted - by "we" do you mean you and I specifically? (if so, fair enough)

I concede that the US gov't has taken empirical-esque actions, but that's despite absolute disagreement and disgust from a majority of the American people (the ones who pay attention). For me, there's a distinction between a government and it's people. Governments tend to forget what their countries are, what they stand for, while the people rarely do even when they know their disagreement and disgust is futile.


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## Paco Dennis (May 31, 2022)

Of course it is not "you and I".   Good post....thanks.


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## Lavinia (May 31, 2022)

America never had an empire! It seems to think it is the ideal role model for the rest of the world....where that idea came from, I can't imagine.
The only thing America has given the world is Coca-Cola and chewing gum.


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## dseag2 (May 31, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> America never had an empire! It seems to think it is the ideal role model for the rest of the world....where that idea came from, I can't imagine.
> The only thing America has given the world is Coca-Cola and chewing gum.


I'll take Coca-Cola and chewing gum over what your "empire" has contributed to the world.  Maybe it is time for you to get over your "holier than thou" deep-seated hatred of the US and put things into perspective  From your favorite "vociferous" friend.  

5 of the worst atrocities carried out by British Empire, after 'historical amnesia' claims​It is the 70th anniversary of the partition of India​Samuel Osborne
Sunday 05 March 2017 12:07\

Five of the worst atrocities carried out by the British Empire

The British people suffer "historical amnesia" over the atrocities committed by their former empire, an Indian MP and author has claimed.
Former UN under-secretary general Dr Shashi Tharoor said the British education system fails to tell the real story of empire.

He said: "There's no real awareness of the atrocities, of the fact that Britain financed its Industrial Revolution and its prosperity from the depredations of empire, the fact that Britain came to one of the richest countries in the world in the 18th century and reduced it, after two centuries of plunder, to one of the poorest."

Recommended​



Britons suffer 'historical amnesia' over empire, says author
A previous YouGov poll found the British public are generally proud of the British Empire and its colonial past.
YouGov found 44 per cent were proud of Britain's history of colonialism, while 21 per cent regretted it happened.
The same poll also found 43 per cent believed the British Empire was a good thing, while 19 per cent said it was bad and 25 per cent said it was neither good nor bad.
At its height in 1922, the British empire governed a fifth of the world's population and a quarter of the world's total land area.

Although proponents of Empire say it brought various economic developments to parts of the world it controlled, critics point to massacres, famines and the use of concentration camps by the British Empire.
Here, _The Independent_ looks at five of the worst atrocities carried out by the British Empire.
1. Boer concentration camps​




Armed Afrikaners on the veldt near Ladysmith during the second Boer War, circa 1900
(Hulton Archive/Getty Images)
During the Second Boer War (1899-1902), the British rounded up around a sixth of the Boer population - mainly women and children - and detained them in camps, which were overcrowded and prone to outbreaks of disease, with scant food rations.
Of the 107,000 people interned in the camps, 27,927 Boers died, along with an unknown number of black Africans.
2. Amritsar massacre​




A young visitor looks at a painting depicting the Amritsar Massare at Jallianwala Bagh in Amritsar
When peaceful protesters defied a government order and demonstrated against British colonial rule in Amritsar, India, on 13 April 1919, they were blocked inside the walled Jallianwala Gardens and fired upon by Gurkha soldiers.

The soldiers, under the orders of Brigadier Reginald Dyer, kept firing until they ran out of ammunition, killing between 379 and 1,000 protesters and injuring another 1,100 within 10 minutes.
Brigadier Dyer was later lauded a hero by the British public, who raised £26,000 for him as a thank you.
3. Partitioning of India​




British lawyer and law lord Cyril Radcliffe, 1st Viscount Radcliffe (1899 - 1977) at the Colonial Office, London, July 1956
In 1947, Cyril Radcliffe was tasked with drawing the border between India and the newly created state of Pakistan over the course of a single lunch.
After Cyril Radcliffe split the subcontinent along religious lines, uprooting over 10 million people, Hindus in Pakistan and Muslims in India were forced to escape their homes as the situation quickly descended into violence.
Some estimates suggest up to one million people lost their lives in sectarian killings.
4. Mau Mau Uprising​




Mau Mau suspects at one of the prison camps in 1953
Thousands of elderly Kenyans, who claim British colonial forces mistreated, raped and tortured them during the Mau Mau Uprising (1951-1960), have launched a £200m damages claim against the UK Government.
Members of the Kikuyu tribe were detained in camps, since described as "Britain's gulags" or concentration camps, where they allege they were systematically tortured and suffered serious ****** assault.
Estimates of the deaths vary widely: historian David Anderson estimates there were 20,000, whereas Caroline Elkins believes up to 100,000 could have died.
5. Famines in India​




Starving children in India, 1945
Between 12 and 29 million Indians died of starvation while it was under the control of the British Empire, as millions of tons of wheat were exported to Britain as famine raged in India.
In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Winston Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal.
Talking about the Bengal famine in 1943, Churchill said: “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”


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## Shalimar (May 31, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> America never had an empire! It seems to think it is the ideal role model for the rest of the world....where that idea came from, I can't imagine.
> The only thing America has given the world is Coca-Cola and chewing gum.


My goodness, not only is this statement blatantly false, it is also disrespectful of our American members. In this forum, we are clearly prohibited from needlessly trashing each other’s countries. Your anger is misplaced, and very toxic.


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## morgan (May 31, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> The only thing America has given the world is Coca-Cola and chewing gum.


Arrogant BS! If I remember correctly America saved the Brits ar*e in two world wars. Yep, as is the case in all countries they have their problems. Right now it’s gun control and in Britain a lying Prime Minister. Nearly forgot, they’ve also provided a forum for you to be rude on!


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## chic (Jun 1, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> As with most every aspect of our lives we cannot agree on this topic. I don't know if the US is an Empire or not.What if we only discussed the facts? How is an empire defined.
> 
> _Is the United States technically an empire?
> 
> ...


Technically, no. Theoretically? Maybe. It's true our  founding fathers never intended America to become an empire but republics can charter this course in the path of their evolution. Napoleon envisioned a globalist government of which he would be the head but ran into noncompliance in Russia, and later defeat in England. Globalism is a really bad idea and has never worked before in history. One day it might. but I hope it's not in my lifetime because I wouldn't want to live in a world like that. People would have no roots or basic identity as they have presently. If we have no countries what do we call ourselves? Earthlings? What would this do to our evolution?


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## Warrigal (Jun 1, 2022)

I do think that the American hegemony is being challenged by China right now. 

The Chinese regime has been hard at work attempting to seduce Pacific governments into signing up to an economic and security program that would have been a challenge to the influence of US, France Australia and New Zealand in that part of the world. If it had succeeded then it would have has serious implications for defence. Fortunately they could not convince most of the Pacific governments to go along with the plan. I am sure they will be back again with a more attractive offer.

It is most important that the US stay strong, not just economically but also as a united people ready too withstand whatever the Chinese have in mind. 

I have been paying attention to events in Ukraine and it is obvious that the US administration is willing to assist Ukraine but not prepared to make war on Russia. I have heard serious commentary that suggests the reason behind this is to avoid being weakened by such a war when it is possible, perhaps even likely, that China will need to be contained in the not too distant future.


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> My goodness, not only is this statement blatantly false, it is also disrespectful of our American members. In this forum, we are clearly prohibited from needlessly trashing each other’s countries. Your anger is misplaced, and very toxic.


@Lavinia says "The only thing America has given the world is Coca-Cola and chewing gum."

Now you have accused Lavinia of "needlessly trashing". That to is an opinion. Let us see it in fact form.

"America has given the world is Coca-Cola and chewing gum"

Here is McDonalds around the world and the fast food stats.


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## oldman (Jun 1, 2022)

Don M. said:


> This may be one reason why illegal immigration is increasing, and no real solutions are being implemented to slow it down.  There aren't enough "White" babies being born in the U.S, and Europe to sustain and grow our economies.  We are having to rely, more and more, on these immigrants to do the work that needs to be done....especially anything that requires manual/physical labor.


I think you’re half right. The browning of America is intentional by a political movement. To speed up the process, they decided to open the gates and let the brown people in by the droves. What they didn’t plan on was the costs involved. Although it won’t bankrupt America, they may end up destroying their own party.

Personally, since I came from a military family, my dad often reminded us family members the hundreds of thousands of military personnel that died to preserve this country. Generations since the Vietnam War don’t realize how many gave their all to protect our autonomy. I don’t think most even care. Men are no longer men standing up for their beliefs. They would rather gather together and complain about what’s wrong with our country and they always seem to have an answer how to fix it.


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> I do think that the American hegemony is being challenged by China right now.
> 
> The Chinese regime has been hard at work attempting to seduce Pacific governments into signing up to an economic and security program that would have been a challenge to the influence of US, France Australia and New Zealand in that part of the world. If it had succeeded then it would have has serious implications for defence. Fortunately they could not convince most of the Pacific governments to go along with the plan. I am sure they will be back again with a more attractive offer.
> 
> ...


  THAT is my concern...that with every dollar we are spending on the war it IS hurting our economy. Americans are going to have to adjust to a war economy. It happens in all wars. WHY? The military industry is pulling the strings on supplying weapons to Ukraine and other NATO allies. They are getting mega rich.  Most of the world doesn't want us in their countries. Americans like history that makes us feel proud, and righteous and believe that "capitalist democracy" is the best. I don't.

  China will not be contained. They are experts at isolationism...and now they have economic power so they are making connections with other countries and making alliances. A war with China  would be WWIII I imagine. That possibility is slim in my mind...but I could be wrong.

Thoughtful post. Thanks.


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

oldman said:


> I think you’re half right. The browning of America is intentional by a political movement. To speed up the process, they decided to open the gates and let the brown people in by the droves. What they didn’t plan on was the costs involved. Although it won’t bankrupt America, they may end up destroying their own party.
> 
> Personally, since I came from a military family, my dad often reminded us family members the hundreds of thousands of military personnel that died to preserve this country. Generations since the Vietnam War don’t realize how many gave their all to* protect our autonomy.* I don’t think most even care. *Mem are no longer men standing up for their beliefs. They would rather gather together and complain about what’s wrong with our country and they always seem to have an answer how to fix it.*


The first statement is an opinion not a fact and has been debated by the best minds and is far from conclusive. 

Protest and speaking out at the actions of our government is a constitutional right, and is extremely necessary for ruled to express grievances against our policies.  War doesn't solve anything...it is what happens afterwards that determines how "it" is fixed.


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## morgan (Jun 1, 2022)

Chewing gum was invented by Mexico not America.


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## Pepper (Jun 1, 2022)

@Lavinia 
Hollywood!  Blues music!  Rock & Roll!


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

chic said:


> Technically, no. Theoretically? Maybe. It's true our  founding fathers never intended America to become an empire but republics can charter this course in the path of their evolution. Napoleon envisioned a globalist government of which he would be the head but ran into noncompliance in Russia, and later defeat in England. *Globalism is a really bad idea and has never worked before in history. One day it might. but I hope it's not in my lifetime because I wouldn't want to live in a world like that. People would have no roots or basic identity as they have presently. If we have no countries what do we call ourselves? Earthlings? What would this do to our evolution?*


Globalism did not work, true. I think the results of this war will be a multi-polar world order. Many countries are ready to start cooperating rather that fight each other. My hope, like yours is that nationalism fades away, and that we begin to see that we are all the same, HUMAN.


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## Pepper (Jun 1, 2022)

Human Being, Planet Earth


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## morgan (Jun 1, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> THAT is my concern...that with every dollar we are spending on the war it IS hurting our economy. Americans are going to have to adjust to a war economy. It happens in all wars. WHY? The military industry is pulling the strings on supplying weapons to Ukraine and other NATO allies. They are getting mega rich.  Most of the world doesn't want us in their countries. Americans like history that makes us feel proud, and righteous and believe that "capitalist democracy" is the best. I don't.
> 
> China will not be contained. They are experts at isolationism...and now they have economic power so they are making connections with other countries and making alliances. A war with China  would be WWIII I imagine. That possibility is slim in my mind...but I could be wrong.
> 
> Thoughtful post. Thanks.


Countries need to stand up to bullies and that is what the US and other countries are doing where Ukraine is concerned. My dream is one day we will see the end of bloody dictatorships and humanity can co exist in relative harmony.


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## rgp (Jun 1, 2022)

morgan said:


> Countries need to stand up to bullies and that is what the US and other countries are doing where Ukraine is concerned. My dream is one day we will see the end of bloody dictatorships and humanity can co exist in relative harmony.




  "My dream is one day we will see the end of bloody dictatorships and humanity can co exist in relative harmony."

 You must plan on living a really long time........


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## oldman (Jun 1, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> The first statement is an opinion not a fact and has been debated by the best minds and is far from conclusive.
> 
> 
> Gee, I have never read anything to the contrary. The white population is decreasing while the brown population, mostly due to the increase in Hispanics, has and us increasing with every census. The projection date for brown people to be the populous race is 2045, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.


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## oldman (Jun 1, 2022)

morgan said:


> Chewing gum was invented by Mexico not America.


If you want to get technical, it was more like a joint venture between a Mexican and an American and the first chewing gum was made in New York. General de Santa Anna bought the main ingredient to New York (chicle), but then when chicle didn’t pan out as planned, a local U.S. inventor took the chicle and developed it into a chewing gum. Good story. Thanks for raising the issue. We sometimes learn things just by accident. 

https://www.eater.com/22993171/gene...na-accidentally-created-chewing-gum-gastropod


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 1, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> The U.S. economy is strong!


Capitalism by definition creates competition!  Therefore, winners and losers are a fact of that economic system.   Factually, all societies have the very poor.  Additionally, all countries have drug addicted (China locks them up or kills them, Sweden houses them and gives them more drugs, etc.) individuals, mentally ill, etc.  Only in the USA does the Press and Politian use our indigent to advance their political views...


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 1, 2022)

In case this was missed, the USA working with our allies stopped the Nazi's attempt to take over Europe and stopped Japan and the rest of the Axis powers from taking over the Pacific.   We also joined the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France and other allies to stop Germany and their allies in WWI!

In both cases we (Allies) saved the World from tyranny!  That beats the heck out of chewing gum!


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> USA working with our allies stopped the Nazi's attempt to take over Europe


This post is an opinion. There are alternative views on this.

For example

"On May 10th 1940, time ran out for the West. Nearly 3 million German troops smashed into France and the Low Countries. Caught off-guard, the Allies were unprepared for the new age of mobile warfare and hampered by poor coordination. Within days the Low Countries had been overrun. Within weeks, France had been defeated and nearly 2 million French soldiers were taken prisoner. Much of Western Europe would suffer under Nazi occupation for the next four years. The continent would ultimately be liberated, but only after unimaginable death and destruction.


Western leaders repeatedly squandered chances to stop Hitler before 1940. First, their governments refused to take decisive action against the Nazis. Then, they remained divided in the face of a growing threat. Finally, they undermined their own opposition to Hitler through irresolution and half-measures. These mistakes proved disastrous. Nothing excuses the evil actions of Nazi Germany, but strong Western leadership might have contained Nazi evil before it exacted such a terrible toll."

World War II: How Western Leaders Failed To Stop the Nazi Rise


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 1, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> This post is an opinion. There are alternative views on this.
> 
> See it as you like!  Opinions are like belly-buttons, everybody has one...





Paco Dennis said:


> The end result is the same!  Hitler and his madness were defeated!  Same for Japan!  I am not sure where you are from or how old you are, or wear you get your information, but you should thank God (if you have one) every night that millions of Americans and our allies faced these mad men and the war machines they built and beat them down until they were defeated!


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

America the "peace maker".


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## chic (Jun 1, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Globalism did not work, true. I think the results of this war will be a multi-polar world order. Many countries are ready to start cooperating rather that fight each other. My hope, like yours is that nationalism fades away, and that we begin to see that we are all the same, HUMAN.


No I don't hope Nationalism fades away. I think you misinterpreted that. Someday in the future it may, but humans need to evolve first or it might not be mentally healthy to destroy ones foundation and identity. I hate cancel culture. Just my opinion.


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

chic said:


> No I don't hope Nationalism fades away. I think you misinterpreted that. Someday in the future it may, but humans need to evolve first or it might not be mentally healthy to destroy ones foundation and identity. I hate cancel culture. Just my opinion.


I agree....nationalism is a strong force for identity and it won't go away any time soon.  A very looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong fade.


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

BUT...nationalism is dangerous also.


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## Judycat (Jun 1, 2022)

Can't wait until the US becomes The Chinese Republic of America. Everything will settle down. Hopefully sooner than later.  We already have lots of prisons for malcontents. Just set the drug dealers and black people free, prisons will be almost empty. Don't want to learn Chinese? Six month. Keep refusing? More year tacked on. Stir up dissent?  Thirty-five year. Walk around with gun in public? One death penalty. Judge is shown holding up one finger.  If people learn, if you behave, noooooo problem.


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

That happened in 1984


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## morgan (Jun 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> "My dream is one day we will see the end of bloody dictatorships and humanity can co exist in relative harmony."
> 
> You must plan on living a really long time........


nothing wrong with having a dream!


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

George _Carlin_ — 'That's why they call it the _American Dream_, because you have to be asleep to believe it.'


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## mrstime (Jun 1, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> As best I can tell the only information about what is really happening in Ukraine is propaganda. That is also always a large activity during WAR. The fog of war....


Too much Tucker Carlson! So yes, that post is political!


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 1, 2022)

mrstime said:


> Too much Tucker Carlson! So yes, that post is political!


How can anyone tell what is really happening when issues of mass importance are run and advertised by the wealthy to make a profit, not serve human well being. They sold us tobacco, alcohol, sugar, opioids, wall street, corporate hegemony, and inaction about the climate crisis. This dovetails with politics because money runs the government. We are unable to divorce economic power with advertising power. Economics is the real reason we have such a huge gun control problem, not politics. The cockeyed idea of American exceptionalism is because of economics. Believe we rule the world and keep shopping. I think that's the best idea I have had. It is really stupid of me to protest against anything and just roll over and go shopping. One our Presidents advised us at a tragic time for our nation, to not worry, HE is going to take care of everything, just go shopping. It is unfortunate for those who don't have any extra money, i guess they are out of luck.


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## Warrigal (Jun 1, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> In case this was missed, the USA working with our allies stopped the Nazi's attempt to take over Europe and stopped Japan and the rest of the Axis powers from taking over the Pacific.   We also joined the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France and other allies to stop Germany and their allies in WWI!
> 
> In both cases we (Allies) saved the World from tyranny!  That beats the heck out of chewing gum!


You missed the bit where the Russians were also very instrumental in the defeat of Nazism.


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 2, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> You missed the bit where the Russians were also very instrumental in the defeat of Nazism.


Yes, but only after the German's attack Russia and darn near beat them!  Prior to that attack, Russia was allied with Germany and the Axis powers...so my "miss" was intentional!


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## Warrigal (Jun 2, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Yes, but only after the German's attack Russia and darn near beat them!  Prior to that attack, Russia was allied with Germany and the Axis powers...so my "miss" was intentional!


Yes, they nearly beat the Russians, just like Napoleon did.


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 2, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> Yes, they nearly beat the Russians, just like Napoleon did.


Yep, and they suffered the same as Napoleon's armies did in their retreat from Russia.   
The bitter cold and lack of food...   
Who was it that said, "if we do not learn from history, they we are bound to repeat it!"  Hitler was not a student of history!


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## JaniceM (Jun 2, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Yep, and they suffered the same as Napoleon's armies did in their retreat from Russia.
> The bitter cold and lack of food...
> Who was it that said, "if we do not learn from history, they we are bound to repeat it!"  Hitler was not a student of history!


Same can be said about Putin.  If somebody had "offed" Hitler, think of all the lives that could have been saved.. and same for Putin.  Instead of ongoing wars with so many casualties, deal with the a*holes that started it.


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 2, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Same can be said about Putin.  If somebody had "offed" Hitler, think of all the lives that could have been saved.. and same for Putin.  Instead of ongoing wars with so many casualties, deal with the a*holes that started it.


Janise, I say the same about our American wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq II (not Iraq 1, as we were liberating an ally), and Afghanistan, although I hate the way Biden got us out of Afghanistan, he blew it in so many ways.


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## Warrigal (Jun 2, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Yep, and they suffered the same as Napoleon's armies did in their retreat from Russia.
> The bitter cold and lack of food...
> Who was it that said, "if we do not learn from history, they we are bound to repeat it!"  Hitler was not a student of history!


I don't know who said it but it would be good if more leaders paid attention to it.

The lesson of Afghanistan is a case in point. Things did not go well for the British, then the Russians and finally for the Americans and their allies. Not to mention the mess left behind for the Afghans.


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