# No end in sight for America's Mideast war duties



## Davey Jones (Sep 10, 2014)

SIGH !!!!

Thirteen years after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, this was supposed to be a season of relief, with Iraq managing on its own and most U.S. troops finally ending their combat duty in Afghanistan. Instead, Americans are bracing for another upsurge of military engagement in a region where one war blurs into another. 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-09-10-02-59-48


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## Ina (Sep 10, 2014)

Davey, I read your link, and Warrigal's, and it does seem we're headed for WW 111. May the powers that be look after our grandchildren and the next generation. I doubt we will be here to comfort them. Our lifestyle is definitely over. :hide:


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Sep 10, 2014)

In grade school, in the 1950's, we had "atomic bomb drills" for when the Russians attacked.  We were to crawl under our desks.  Lots of good that would have done in a nuclear attack!!!  Our parents and grandparents worried that we would fight Communism and, eventually, would be living under Communist rule.  We survived that.

Today, we are watching the cancer of Muslim extremeists who would wish to do us the same harm as Communism, only worse.  America has come together and done what is necessary to live safe and free.  Hopefully, America and Europe and Australia and free countries world-wide will meet the challenges of today... defeat them... and wait for the next to rear its ugly head.


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## Warrigal (Sep 10, 2014)

> Hopefully, America and Europe and Australia and free countries world-wide will meet the challenges of today... defeat them... and wait for the next to rear its ugly head.


We will meet the challenges and we will prevail provided we do it intelligently rather than as a panicked kneejerk reaction.
I refuse to be afraid.

Later this year hubby and I will be taking a cruise in SE Asia with stops at Malaysia and Indonesia.
I refuse to be afraid and will take short shore excursions as usual.


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## Ina (Sep 10, 2014)

Don't be afraid, but please be careful.


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## Warrigal (Sep 10, 2014)

We're always careful and we don't frequent bars.


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## Ina (Sep 10, 2014)

Ok, I'll quit nagging now. :tapfoot:


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## Warrigal (Sep 10, 2014)

That wasn't nagging. I appreciate the concern.

I always assess the level of risk and whether it is worth taking.
I decided the slight risk of falling out of the sky acceptable when deciding to take a helicopter ride into the Grand Canyon and took the flight without a qualm. We went to China even though SARS was all in the news but I did take a swag of wipes, disinfectant, rubbing alcohol and surgical masks to use if I thought my surroundings might not be safe. 

If our government says do not go to any countries on our itinerary, we won't take any excursions there but in all probability we wouldn't even dock in those countries. The last cruise we took changed its route to avoid a cyclone so I don't reckon they'll take us into a terrorist hot spot either.


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## drifter (Sep 10, 2014)

Don't carry any weed with you, Warr. You know how those Indenesions are.


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## Warrigal (Sep 10, 2014)

I may be a rebel at heart but in reality I'm a most law abiding person.
I'll even observe the dress code.


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 11, 2014)

Dame, you will need to seek permission from Senior Forums for any absent for more than a few days...


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## Debby (Sep 11, 2014)

Not surprisingly, that linked article made no mention of the US continuing to arm the very 'terrorists' in Syria that they were there fighting originally.  I read one article that suggested that prior to handing out guns, the US 'vetted' them.  Can you imagine the questionnaire?  Question #1 - Will you use the weapons we give you against helpless civilians or anyone connected to the USA?  The answer that they probably got from all of them:  We promise to be good and never use our guns against anyone who doesn't deserve it/American citizens/civilians......

As America decided to destabilize the Middle East in 1991 and they specifically decided on a list of 5 or 7 countries including Iraq, Libya, Syria, Lebanon and a couple others that I can't remember at the moment, why is anyone surprised at all?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5q9PYy1NoA


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## Debby (Sep 11, 2014)

http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/lindauer/

I found the short bio on Susan Lindauer (who gave advance warning of the 9/11 attacks) very interesting from many different perspectives.  No trial, no charges, secret evidence, threats of indefinite detention and forced drugging....and all for an America citizen who tried to prevent 9/11 and the subsequent destruction of Iraq and the deaths of how many civilians there not to mention the soldiers who died!

And in light of the opening statement on this thread, again....if the American administration treated someone who warned that 9/11 was going to happen....why is anyone surprised that this is all going on still?


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## WhatInThe (Sep 11, 2014)

Debby said:


> Not surprisingly, that linked article made no mention of the US continuing to arm the very 'terrorists' in Syria that they were there fighting originally.  I read one article that suggested that prior to handing out guns, the US 'vetted' them.  Can you imagine the questionnaire?  Question #1 - Will you use the weapons we give you against helpless civilians or anyone connected to the USA?  The answer that they probably got from all of them:  We promise to be good and never use our guns against anyone who doesn't deserve it/American citizens/civilians......
> 
> As America decided to destabilize the Middle East in 1991 and they specifically decided on a list of 5 or 7 countries including Iraq, Libya, Syria, Lebanon and a couple others that I can't remember at the moment, why is anyone surprised at all?
> 
> ...



I thought the old colonial empires are just as much a cause because they grouped or located the various factions into one country where many already had long standing feuds and/or issues with each other that are the same ones boiling over today?


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## Vivjen (Sep 11, 2014)

We are; divided the countries in straight lines; easier to map..
Sticking Israel in the middle didn't help either..


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## Son_of_Perdition (Sep 11, 2014)

I've heard about the troubles and strife that is the middle east since I was in the 1st grade.  We have gone through Democratic/Republican administrations and a varity of Senate/Representative congresses since that time.  *NOT ONE* of them were able or equiped to resolve any of the problems and maybe they shouldn't have tried.  They don't understand the culture and motivations of the people there, or don't seem to care.  We 'civilized' cultures think it's our responsibility to tell others how to live, but can't seem to get it right in our own backyard.  I don't know the answers, and anyone who say they do are blowing smoke in my opinion.


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## WhatInThe (Sep 11, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> We are; divided the countries in straight lines; easier to map..
> Sticking Israel in the middle didn't help either..



Ironically those straight lines and borders is what kept the peace and got the world through the Cold War without an apocalypse. Religion and philosophy aren't clear defined by geography unlike  political leanings which tend to be used or benefit certain groups or areas of the world. Communism might work in China and North Korea but not the old Russia for example. The problem now is anyone anywhere can practice and participate in a religion or movement(which is actually a good thing) but makes locating the enemy nearly impossible unless a brutal police state which nobody wants.


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## Debby (Sep 11, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> I thought the old colonial empires are just as much a cause because they grouped or located the various factions into one country where many already had long standing feuds and/or issues with each other that are the same ones boiling over today?




I'm not sure what your question is WhatInThe.  Which 'old colonial empires' are you referring to?


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## Debby (Sep 11, 2014)

Son_of_Perdition said:


> I've heard about the troubles and strife that is the middle east since I was in the 1st grade.  We have gone through Democratic/Republican administrations and a varity of Senate/Representative congresses since that time.  *NOT ONE* of them were able or equiped to resolve any of the problems and maybe they shouldn't have tried.  They don't understand the culture and motivations of the people there, or don't seem to care.  We 'civilized' cultures think it's our responsibility to tell others how to live, but can't seem to get it right in our own backyard.  I don't know the answers, and anyone who say they do are blowing smoke in my opinion.




You are ignoring the fact that the American administration not only doesn't understand those cultures, but they don't care and indeed have their own agenda that doesn't include the Middle East being functional in any way except as it becomes beholden to the American government.  That's why they fund terrorists, sorry, 'freedom fighters'(Syria) in one country and then try to rally the troops to fight against those freedom fighters, oops 'terrorists' in another country.

I believe there are two issues at work here that are the reason for this continual meddling:  the transcendency of the American dollar as reserve currency and the desire to control governments(oil)  globally to protect American interests.  Saddam Hussein made the mistake of trying to trade oil for gold, Gaddafi did the same and Iran was accepting gold for their natural gas (because of American sanctions).  The more countries turn to gold or other means of avoiding use of the American dollar, the greater the possibility that the US will lose their reserve currency status. And that reserve currency status has enabled the US to print money out of thin air as they don't have to have sufficient gold to back up all the money they print.  Now with the BRIC moves towards cutting the dollar out of their dealings, that status is further threatened.  

There are any number of credible alternate news sites online that talk about these issues in depth.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatsp...old-helped-iran-withstand-u-s-financial-fury/

And when you consider who America's bedfellows are:  http://levantreport.com/2014/06/
That site has a photo of some guy purported to be an ISIS leader being treated in a Turkish hospital......but I thought Turkey was a member of NATO?  So why would they be giving aid to an ISIS guy when the US is planning on blowing them up in Iraq?

Today I read an article that discusses a book written by F. William Engahl, called 'Target China', and one of the things he brings up is the fact that China found it's oil in Africa.  Remember, Gaddafi was a champion of Africa's development for decades and in 1986 had his first conference to discuss a gold currency to be used for oil sales.  The second conference he held was in 2000.  Keep in mind that the decision to take out Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, etc., was made in 1991 and General Wesley Clark has stated that in a video that is available to watch.  And now, Russia and China have a deal where all the oil/gas that Russia sells to China will be paid for with anything but the American dollar.  One more reason to go after Russia???

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/06/27/target-china-by-f-william-engdahl/
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-884508 (CNN reporting on Libya and mentions gold currency for oil)


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## WhatInThe (Sep 11, 2014)

Debby said:


> I'm not sure what your question is WhatInThe.  Which 'old colonial empires' are you referring to?



Wouldn't the old colonial powers and their policy have as much to do with middle east today as the more recent attempts to "fix" things?

The old colonial empires of England and France did basically what Saddam Hussein did in Iraq they ruled by politics and not religion even if a dictatorship. The various factions were not allowed to go through a more natural evolution into a nation state or smaller more homogenous country even if it would've included war and death.  Most of the middle east was occupied and/or ruled by England and France.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_North_Africa

http://lostislamichistory.com/how-the-british-divided-up-the-arab-world/

This was forced cohabitation of long time enemies. So when the reins of any political control are removed or changed these enemies see as it an opportunity for their push their agenda.


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## Debby (Sep 11, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> Wouldn't the old colonial powers and their policy have as much to do with middle east today as the more recent attempts to "fix" things?
> 
> The old colonial empires of England and France did basically what Saddam Hussein did in Iraq they ruled by politics and not religion even if a dictatorship. The various factions were not allowed to go through a more natural evolution into a nation state or smaller more homogenous country even if it would've included war and death.  Most of the middle east was occupied and/or ruled by England and France.
> 
> ...




I think one thing you are spot on is the penchant of 'Western' countries for manipulating the situation in other countries (for their own benefit).  And I don't think that has changed at all, except in one regard and that is that the leader in manipulating has now become the US.  If you look at my last reply to Son of Perdition, I've given my opinion as to the reason for that action and several links on how it is going down.

The American administration has fooled most of the world into accepting the BS about spreading democracy and freedom and fortunately for them(the Administration), people have short memories and mostly don't see the backstories and connections.  That is where the truth really lies.  If it was all about spreading democracy and freedom, why are they trying to take down Syria which is a democracy and according to this link:  http://levantreport.com/2014/06/30/damascus-and-baghdad-a-marines-syrian-education/    This article (by a Marine) talks about how Syria was before this war started.  Sounds like 'anyplace USA'.  

Then there's the Ukraine, which had a democratic government but the US helped overthrow it.  How about voting the corrupt president out instead of a coup?  That's how democracy are supposed to work, right America?  What would have been the American peoples reaction if Russia for example stepped in to help get rid of Nixon by funding terrorists?

I've tried to find out about Libya before Gaddafi was murdered and there isn't much that's unbiased out there.  But from what I can tell, it was pretty good for the people.  Fourteen cents a litre for their gas, numerous cash benefits, a check every month from the country's oil company because the country's oil belonged to the people, free education, great healthcare......As for his terrorist leanings, he actually funded Nelson Mandela's fight against apartheid and I know he supported the IRA as well although I've never researched the IRA so I have no opinion on that.  But suffice it to say that when the US decided it was time to take him out, they funded Al Qaeda to do the deed.http://levantreport.com/2014/06/30/damascus-and-baghdad-a-marines-syrian-education/  and now that most prosperous country of Africa is in shambles.

What I do think is bizarre is the world making a pilgrimage (including Obama) to Nelson Mandela's funeral, paying homage to a great man, even while they had orchestrated the murder of one man who 'fought' for an end to apartheid by supporting Nelson Mandela, Moammar Gaddafi and who worked hard to change the course of Libya for the better.


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## Debby (Sep 11, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> Wouldn't the old colonial powers and their policy have as much to do with middle east today as the more recent attempts to "fix" things?
> 
> The old colonial empires of England and France did basically what Saddam Hussein did in Iraq they ruled by politics and not religion even if a dictatorship. The various factions were not allowed to go through a more natural evolution into a nation state or smaller more homogenous country even if it would've included war and death.  Most of the middle east was occupied and/or ruled by England and France.
> 
> ...






By the way, thanks for the link on how Britain divided up the Arab world.  That's a keeper for sure.


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## Vivjen (Sep 11, 2014)

It wasn't just us! 
French and Italians as well!


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## Debby (Sep 11, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> It wasn't just us!
> French and Italians as well!





I think every government has sins. Either of the past or the present.  But the future is undecided.  So with hundreds of years of 'lessons of history to learn from', why are we still doing this?  Wars and rumours of wars! Humans and our big brains and we are too stupid to learn from the past apparently.


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## Davey Jones (Sep 12, 2014)

Debby said:


> I think every government has sins. Either of the past or the present.  But the future is undecided.  So with hundreds of years of 'lessons of history to learn from', why are we still doing this?  Wars and rumours of wars! Humans and our big brains and we are too stupid to learn from the past apparently.



Why??? Bet  I could get a real answers from Lost Tribe of Tibetan Pygmies.


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