# Our Responses Since 9-11: Explained as Flawed



## imp (Nov 19, 2015)

This editorial piece appeared in the Laughlin, Nevada newspaper, 18 Nov 2015. I read it through several times and the thoughts presented are worthy, I think, of consideration. Some may disagaree, maybe. But when the loss of human life numbers are considered, Van Buren makes a lot of sense.    imp


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## fureverywhere (Nov 19, 2015)

Basically you wonder why they hate us? And what has been the response? Not too hard to figure out.


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## Shalimar (Nov 19, 2015)

Qft.


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## The Inspector (Nov 19, 2015)

I have no doubt it was clearly flawed. We vilified and attacked sovereign countries that had done nothing to us.

I do have to say at this point ISIS is a small threat to the U.S. so we can't let them be.

Looks like we need more info. about them. Believe it or not. 

We have been making mistakes in our attack.


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## Butterfly (Nov 19, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Qft.



I am just trying to figure this out -- so when you just put "qft" after a post (somebody on here said it meant "quoted for truth"), does that mean the same as saying you agree?  I just hadn't seen the qft thing before lately and am trying to be sure I get what it means.

Thanks.


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## Shalimar (Nov 19, 2015)

That's right Butterfly. It indicates agreement. You are most welcome.


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## Bobw235 (Nov 20, 2015)

An interesting op-ed piece and thanks for posting.  It does make you think.  Are we safer today than we were before 9-11?  I suppose so, but as the auther points out, none of our efforts to squash terror and build new states in our image has worked.  I don't know what the right answer is either, but it seems that we have engendered more hate and distrust towards us by the Muslim community as a result of our actions, while at the same time suppressing freedoms here at home.  It's a scary time we live in and I really worry for the world my grandkids are growing up into.  I'm not sure we can ever eliminate the extremist, radicalized Muslim way of thinking as long as continue down the same path.  I don't have any answers, but it sure seems that the present course isn't working.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 20, 2015)

Bobw235 said:


> An interesting op-ed piece and thanks for posting.  It does make you think.  Are we safer today than we were before 9-11?  I suppose so, but as the auther points out, none of our efforts to squash terror and build new states in our image has worked.  I don't know what the right answer is either, but it seems that we have engendered more hate and distrust towards us by the Muslim community as a result of our actions, while at the same time suppressing freedoms here at home.  It's a scary time we live in and I really worry for the world my grandkids are growing up into.  I'm not sure we can ever eliminate the extremist, radicalized Muslim way of thinking as long as continue down the same path.  I don't have any answers, but it sure seems that the present course isn't working.



I agree, Bob, with the extremism in the ME and here at home along with Climate Change I fear for my grandchildren's future.


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## BobF (Nov 20, 2015)

I guess from reading that article that our choice, and France's too, and all the people from the middle east, is to sit down and just accept the life the extremist of our territories insist on.   Never once should we resist and fight for our ways of thinking.   

How ridiculous that idea is as that means most of these countries around the world, including US, Russis, China, France, and many others would not exist in the first place.   It is not wrong for people to defend their ways from radical intruders from where ever they come from.


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## Debby (Nov 20, 2015)

The Inspector said:


> I have no doubt it was clearly flawed. We vilified and attacked sovereign countries that had done nothing to us.
> 
> I do have to say at this point ISIS is a small threat to the U.S. so we can't let them be.
> 
> ...





'You' believed that about al Qaeda after 9/11 and yet here 'you' are in Syria, funding them.  Mistake, sheer stupidity or an agenda?


By the way imp, thank you for the article.  Mirrors my opinion entirely.


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## Debby (Nov 20, 2015)

BobF said:


> I guess from reading that article that our choice, and France's too, and all the people from the middle east, is to sit down and just accept the life the extremist of our territories insist on.   Never once should we resist and fight for our ways of thinking.
> 
> How ridiculous that idea is as that means most of these countries around the world, including US, Russis, China, France, and many others would not exist in the first place.   It is not wrong for people to defend their ways from radical intruders from where ever they come from.





Has it ever occurred to any of you that when you announce your 'war on ________' it's going to fail?  Does the pronouncement guarantee that?  The war on terror, the war on drugs, the war on poverty, the war on illiteracy......  

I was talking to a bozo on FB about all of this and he said something like 'places like Afghanistan and Iraq have resources that we need and if we don't go in there and take them, somebody else will'.  Right there is the problem, the idea that 'we' have any right to TAKE anything and therefore WE are justified in whatever WE do.  We take resources, we take out governments (to replace them), we, we, we......how would WE feel if somebody did that to us?

No one is saying that we can't defend ourselves, but when we go into another country and start meddling and taking and manipulating, then WE are asking for trouble.  We need to do as Russia has said repeatedly over the last two or three years and that is start respecting others, other countries borders and do business with respect and consideration for other countries sovereignty.


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## BobF (Nov 20, 2015)

Debby said:


> Has it ever occurred to any of you that when you announce your 'war on ________' it's going to fail?  Does the pronouncement guarantee that?  The war on terror, the war on drugs, the war on poverty, the war on illiteracy......
> 
> I was talking to a bozo on FB about all of this and he said something like 'places like Afghanistan and Iraq have resources that we need and if we don't go in there and take them, somebody else will'.  Right there is the problem, the idea that 'we' have any right to TAKE anything and therefore WE are justified in whatever WE do.  We take resources, we take out governments (to replace them), we, we, we......how would WE feel if somebody did that to us?
> 
> No one is saying that we can't defend ourselves, but when we go into another country and start meddling and taking and manipulating, then WE are asking for trouble.  We need to do as Russia has said repeatedly over the last two or three years and that is start respecting others, other countries borders and do business with respect and consideration for other countries sovereignty.



You are right, that person was a bozo.    His comments were totally wrong.

For Iraq it was a UN request for folks to put a stop to Iraq''s threatening and take over of its neighbors for the first effort.   The second effort was intended to be seen as an expansion of the first UN efforts, and it definitely got out of hand as all there got caught up in the Sunni and Shia fight.    

For Afghanistan it was for ability to find Osama bin Laden to arrest him.   The US had UN and Afghanistan's permission to enter the Afghanistan.

And now, the US does not have to declare war on anyone.    Those radicals have already declared war on the US and we need to do all we can to defend ourselves.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 20, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> I am just trying to figure this out -- so when you just put "qft" after a post (somebody on here said it meant "quoted for truth"), does that mean the same as saying you agree?  I just hadn't seen the qft thing before lately and am trying to be sure I get what it means.
> 
> Thanks.



Thanks Butterfly, I had no idea what that meant either, not as common as IMO or BTW.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 20, 2015)

Debby said:


> Has it ever occurred to any of you that when you announce your 'war on ________' it's going to fail?  Does the pronouncement guarantee that?  The war on terror, the war on drugs, the war on poverty, the war on illiteracy......
> 
> I was talking to a bozo on FB about all of this and he said something like 'places like Afghanistan and Iraq have resources that we need and if we don't go in there and take them, somebody else will'.
> 
> ...



I agree Debby, the "war on terror" is just as bogus as the "war on drugs", both "wars" creating a much more negative effect on the citizens that the 'problem' itself. 

 You're spot on when you say we don't have the right to take anything like resources from other countries, take out their governments to replace them, kill their people, or dominate/control them in any way. Of course we wouldn't like it if someone tried to do that to us. It's very obvious why we are hated by so many and described as the great satan.

As you say, we need to stop meddling and manipulating, but too many powers that be are hungry for power, control and money at the expense of our security, freedoms, and military lives.  I'm glad I don't have any children or grandchildren to worry about.


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## Debby (Nov 20, 2015)

[....I'm glad I don't have any children or grandchildren to worry about......]    When I think of all this bad stuff that's going on in the world, I wish I didn't have grandkids!   Our youngest who is now 30 and has always said she didn't want kids, but when she moved to Calgary, she started going out with a guy that she'd been texting occasionally and he's such a nice guy and seems like the 'right one' finally so now she's saying that 'if it happened' she wouldn't be unhappy.....well you know what that's code for!  I have to admit that my heart sank just a little when she said that.

That was a very thought provoking video SeaBreeze.  Thanks for sharing it.  Continuous war eh?  I never looked at it on that basis, i.e. a single, continuous war with an uninterrupted progression of this 'battle', then the next and then the next again and.....  I've heard other folks also saying that all of this is the bankers doing too and ultimately, they would profit in every transaction.  Like even ISIS selling oil to some group or country and all those funds gotta go through a bank somewhere.  And people are looking the other way to make it possible.  Crazy world!


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## Shalimar (Nov 20, 2015)

I certainly understand concerns about the future of our children and grandchildren. That said, life has always been scary, if not war, then poverty, slavery, plague famine---take your pick. History provides us with an unending tale of challenges faced by the human race. Even this battered compassionate-warrior remains hopeful.


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## Shalimar (Nov 20, 2015)

Oops, machine ate my last line. It should have read, even this compassionate warrior remains hopeful, we are a resilient and resourceful young species.


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## The Inspector (Nov 20, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Oops, machine ate my last line. It should have read, even this compassionate warrior remains hopeful, we are a resilient and resourceful young species.


Yep


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