# Some Things Just Can't Be Explained



## 911 (Jun 1, 2018)

I am really sorry for this lady's loss. I can't even begin to imagine her feelings at this time. It's a horrible thing to have happen to one of your children. 

Over my 37 years in law enforcement, I have also investigated many dog bites. I remember on one occasion, the lady that owned the dog (Pit Bull) said the dog had never even so much as growled at anyone. The dog had attacked a young boy visiting the lady's Grandson and they were playing some kind of game in the backyard, when the dog decided to attack the young boy causing a lot of damage to the boy's neck and right arm. I went to visit him while he was in the hospital just a few days later and he was still very stressed and of course, in a lot of pain. 

Like I said, "Some things just can't be explained."

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article212188759.html


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## KingsX (Jun 1, 2018)

.

Pit Bulls are infamous for suddenly attacking strangers and their owners.
Obviously there is something in their DNA that makes them unstable.

.


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## Traveler (Jun 1, 2018)

I don't care what anyone says, Pit Bulls should be declared illegal and "put down". Every single one of them. The only value they have is to be used in dog V. dog combat. People who engage in dog fighting are scum.


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## justfred (Jun 1, 2018)

I too have often wondered why dogs suddenly turn on even their owners but we must remember that dogs are descendants of wolves and wolves are hunters and killers so it is possible for a dog for some reason unknown to us to become wolflike for just a short time and attack.


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## Pappy (Jun 1, 2018)

Just yesterday, there was a child in a bouncy chair and the family pit attacked the child.


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## Sunny (Jun 1, 2018)

> It was not clear whether the dog who attacked the baby would be put down.
> Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article212188759.html#storylink=cpy
> 
> Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article212188759.html#storylink=cpy
> ​



Really? Nah, I think the dog should be adopted by another family with a baby.

Seriously, what possible reason could there be for keeping the dog alive?

For once, Traveler, I agree with you. Pit bulls should be banned; how many more attacks will it take before this happens?


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## Lara (Jun 1, 2018)

Like I said once before, I cringe when someone says that "Pit Bulls get a bad rap". One just needs to look at the death statistics. 

2017 - According to wiki, last year 12 people (of all ages) were killed in the US by Pit Bulls (or mixed-pit). 
No other breeds had more than one victim for the year except German Shepherds (5) and Mastiff (2) 

So far in 2018 -  Fatalities number 5 for Pit Bulls. No other breeds have multiple fatalities this year so far.


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## IKE (Jun 1, 2018)

I like all dogs but it does seem like that when you read about a dog attack most of the time it involves a pit bull.

The chart states "death due to dog bite injury" so it may also include rabies or other infections caused by being bitten not just actual fatal attacks (I dunno) plus the chart says 'Americans' so I'm assuming that the statistics of other countries aren't included.


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## Traveler (Jun 1, 2018)

I have noticed that the owners of Pit Bulls tend to be men of a certain low-class. Often they are drug users/dealers.  Those men are attempting to be ultra tough guys like the infamous case of Ex-Pro quarterback Michael Vick and his kennel of fighting dogs. 

Personally, I don't want such men, or dogs, anywhere near me.


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## RadishRose (Jun 1, 2018)

It's more genetic than being mistreated. They are bred to be aggressive!

Yes they can be trained to fight, but the base of the problems is genetics caused by breeders .
This "breeding" or genetic engineering to produce dogs with powerful jaws and aggressive dispositions are to blame. Add further training to attack and you have a real problem.


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## Lara (Jun 1, 2018)

...and we do have a real problem. Now what?


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## RadishRose (Jun 1, 2018)

Lara said:


> ...and we do have a real problem. Now what?



Gosh Lara, good question. Would it be feasible to place a moratorium on breeding more pits for awhile? I wouldn't know for how long though. 

Maybe prohibit breeders from breeding certain dogs who are known attackers altogether?

I think most communities have laws against dogs running around unleashed. For those owners, no slap on the wrist but a hefty fine,  but then, maybe they will just abandon the poor dog. I don't know.

Anyone else?


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## applecruncher (Jun 1, 2018)

KingsX said:


> .Pit Bulls are infamous for suddenly attacking strangers and their owners.
> 
> Obviously there is something in their DNA that makes them unstable..





Traveler said:


> I don't care what anyone says, Pit Bulls should be declared illegal and "put down". Every single one of them. The only value they have is to be used in dog V. dog combat. People who engage in dog fighting are scum.



I agree 100%.

Yet. pit bull owners are sooooo defensive.  There was a member here at SF who ranted constantly about "stupid people who don't like pit bulls".  Mail carrier refused to deliver her mail.  Then one day she posted about how she was trying to scrape together some money because her precious "pittie" got loose and bit her neighbor. Hmmm.

Pit bulls are monsters.  They should be banned then wiped off the face of the earth.  The whole subject makes me want to PUKE.  

Glad they are banned in the suburb where I live.


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## Elsie (Jun 1, 2018)

I wonder if some drug selling cartels use pit bulls because they make deadly guard dogs in keeping away anyone who would threaten their "business".......


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## RadishRose (Jun 1, 2018)

From what I've read about what happened to the German Shepherd (which was a LONG time ago), their name was actually Alsatian Wolfhound.

Strong and intelligent, unethical breeders used these traits to create an aggressive guard dog; putting together the most feisty and aggressive of the litters until they became dangerous. They even changed it's name to German Police Dog- something to be feared; a mean, junk yard dog.

After awhile few people wanted anything to do with these dogs so slowly, breeders reversed their former habits and bred the more gentle of the litters. They also needed to change the name again and what's more loving and protective than "shepherd"? Eventually the "German Shepherd" was saved.

This dog had a natural _slight_  sloping of it's lower back. Suddenly some "genius" at the AKC and dog clubs abroad decided this posture to be a desirable trait for champion Shepherds and became a standard. So, overbreeding dogs with this trait caused thousands of dogs to be almost unable to run normally and feel pain when walking more than short distances.

I wish they would have left dogs alone.


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## bingo (Jun 1, 2018)

yeah...and they made a show
"pit bulls and paroles"
i don't watch it


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## applecruncher (Jun 1, 2018)

Elsie said:


> I wonder if some drug selling cartels use pit bulls because they make deadly guard dogs in keeping away anyone who would threaten their "business".......



Yep, they use pit bulls and also alligators.  Hmmm.


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## RadishRose (Jun 1, 2018)

Elsie said:


> I wonder if some drug selling cartels use pit bulls because they make deadly guard dogs in keeping away anyone who would threaten their "business".......



I absolutely agree.


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## dpwspringer (Jun 1, 2018)

I got my current dog from the county shelter and spent a few weeks checking out the dogs available for adoption. Seemed like about 80% of their dogs were pit mixes.


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## Manatee (Jun 1, 2018)

Our Chihuahua never even growled at anyone.  He was everyone's friend.


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## dpwspringer (Jun 1, 2018)

NM.... double post


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## Traveler (Jun 1, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> From what I've read about what happened to the German Shepherd (which was a LONG time ago), their name was actually Alsatian Wolfhound.
> 
> Strong and intelligent, unethical breeders used these traits to create an aggressive guard dog; putting together the most feisty and aggressive of the litters until they became dangerous. They even changed it's name to German Police Dog- something to be feared; a mean, junk yard dog.
> 
> ...



I totally agree.

But, not meaning to argue, if dogs had been left alone, they would all look like wolves. Every breed of dog has been selectively bred to conform to certain desirable traits. The sheep herding dogs , for example. Lovely dog. Great friend of man.

Where I live, the chihuahua is very popular. Personally, I can't stand the yapping little things. IMO, they are no longer dogs, but closer to rats. hahaha


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## RadishRose (Jun 1, 2018)

Well, that's true. But I also like chihuahuas, lol,


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## jujube (Jun 1, 2018)

Elsie said:


> I wonder if some drug selling cartels use pit bulls because they make deadly guard dogs in keeping away anyone who would threaten their "business".......



Apparently the preferred dog for California drug dealers is the Presa Canario, which if raised to be aggressive, can make a pitbull look like your garden variety Sunday School teacher.  

The last study I saw said that the cocker spaniel was responsible for the most dog bites in the US.  Maybe so, but it's a loooong distance between a nip on the ankle from a cocker which might or might not break the skin and getting your throat torn out by a pit or a Presa Canario.  

I know that the so-called "aggressive breeds" aren't all killers (I had a pitbull next door that thought he was a miniature poodle lap dog), but  I would never have an aggressive breed dog in the house with a child.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Jun 1, 2018)

Press canerio were the breed that was part of a Court TV episode back when they were still live.
I believe there were 2 that mauled and possibly killed a woman in California. 
I'm vague on the details it would have been in the early 2000s


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## RadishRose (Jun 1, 2018)

Giantsfan1954 said:


> Press canerio were the breed that was part of a Court TV episode back when they were still live.
> I believe there were 2 that mauled and possibly killed a woman in California.
> I'm vague on the details it would have been in the early 2000s



That sounds familiar. Was the lady in the hallway outside her apartment door when the dogs took her down?


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## jujube (Jun 1, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> That sounds familiar. Was the lady in the hallway outside her apartment door when the dogs took her down?



That sure sounds familiar.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Jun 1, 2018)

Yes,thanks for filling in the details.


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## RadishRose (Jun 1, 2018)

jujube said:


> Apparently the preferred dog for California drug dealers is the Presa Canario, which if raised to be aggressive, can make a pitbull look like your garden variety Sunday School teacher.
> 
> The last study I saw said that the cocker spaniel was responsible for the most dog bites in the US.  Maybe so, but it's a loooong distance between a nip on the ankle from a cocker which might or might not break the skin and getting your throat torn out by a pit or a Presa Canario.
> 
> I know that the so-called "aggressive breeds" aren't all killers (I had a pitbull next door that thought he was a miniature poodle lap dog), but  I would never have an aggressive breed dog in the house with a child.



I heard that about Cocker Spaniels too. I had on that nipped at someone one.

I looked up that Presa Canario. Scary but beautiful at the same time. 

View attachment 52752


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## fmdog44 (Jun 1, 2018)

As long as an animal is not 100 percent predictable and kids are involved the situation speaks for itself. With all the choices of dog and millions put down every year, why allow pit bulls to be bought and sold to anyone?


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## StarSong (Jun 1, 2018)

I read this post earlier today.  Happened to go to the grocery store and while at the register, my line's grocery bagger was talking with the checker about his need to rehome his dog or at least get it fostered for a time.  The checker said that her little dog is terrified of other dogs so she was sorry, but couldn't consider taking his dog.  My husband and I have been toying with the idea of getting a second small dog, so I asked what kind of dog he had.  Pit bull mix.  Eek.  

I shook my head sadly, saying that I'd just read an article about a pit bull killing a nine month old child.  He said that all PBs get a bad rap for some, but all three of us acknowledged that it's not merely the way they're trained.  Needless to say, I didn't go any further with that conversation. 

On the other hand, if you ever happen to catch Cesar Milan's TV shows you'll notice that his go-to calming dog is a purebread pit bull.  Interesting.


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## 911 (Jun 1, 2018)

There are three dog breeds that are on our list of most dangerous breeds. Pit Bulls, Rotweilers and Doberman Pinschers. Normally, if we answer a domestic dispute or other type of domestic issue and are faced down with any growling or barking dog in a threatening manner, we will first mace the dog and if that doesn’t allow us to restrain him, we go to Plan B.


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## applecruncher (Jun 1, 2018)

Giantsfan1954 said:


> Press canerio were the breed that was part of a Court TV episode back when they were still live.
> I believe there were 2 that mauled and possibly killed a woman in California.
> I'm vague on the details it would have been in the early 2000s



I remember that case in San Francisco. The dogs killed the woman. I thought they were Cane Corso but guess I was wrong.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Jun 1, 2018)

My daughter was an EMT in South Carolina,they had a call that turned out to be an infant mauled to death by a golden retriever, turned out their were other factors...
My 10th grade English teachers boy was hurt badly by a neighbor's St.Bernard...
I am not comfortable with same children around dogs,my Alaskan Malamute was extremely jealous of my daughter from the day we brought her home,he wound up as an outdoor dog with a dog house,if I had to do it over again,I would attempt to rehome him.


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## Lara (Jun 1, 2018)

Remember this?


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## StarSong (Jun 1, 2018)

Lara said:


> Remember this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## applecruncher (Jun 1, 2018)

^^ Yeah, Tara the cat became famous!  :yes:
Was on national news, talk shows, etc.


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## KingsX (Jun 1, 2018)

.

*'I thought I was going to die'*

Jun 1, 2018 

"Holly Mckenzie considered her family’s two pit bull dogs her "best friends,” having made memories over the past three years of walking them, playing with them, cuddling them and even sleeping in the same bed together. 

On Sunday though, Mckenzie said it was like a switch went off in the normally “cuddly, sweet” dogs. The Norwalk woman said one minute she was petting them and the next she was fighting for her life as they literally tried to rip her apart. 

“Please know before looking, these are graphic, disturbing and hard to look at,” she said in a Facebook post which displays photos of the aftermath of the attack showing deep, fresh gashes across her throat, face, arms, hand and leg. 

Mckenzie, a mother of two children aged 9 months and 2 years, told the Reflector she went to a family member’s house, rang the bell and walked in the house as she’d done “well over 100 times.” She said the dogs barked as they usually would and she began to pet them for a few minutes while her family went to the basement. She said the smaller of the two canines “nipped” at her several times, which she ignored, thinking the dog wanted to play, and tried to walk away.

“I didn’t get that chance to even move an inch to walk away,” Mckenzie said. 

“Before I knew it, after the little dog nipped me one (more) time, he looked at the bigger dog (who’s) well over 120 pounds. The bigger dog than looked at me, grabbed my arm full force and dragged me to the ground.

“The little one started biting the hell out of my arm and the bigger dog latched onto my throat as hard as he could. He (kept) attempting to bite deeper and lower in my neck.”

Mckenzie said she did the only thing she could think of — shoving her hand as far down the dog’s throat as she could. She said the dog released its bite, but immediately “went back and latched onto the left side of my face.”

While the smaller, 60-pound dog kept a firm bite on her left arm, Mckenzie said she again stuck her hand down the larger dog’s throat, who then moved from her face to her stomach and bit into her leg, before coming back to her hand. 

“He grabbed my hand (and) they both keep ripping and pulling until part of my bone ripped out of my hand,” Mckenzie said.

“I was screaming as loud as I could. My family members ripped the dogs off me. It took him several minutes for him to get them off my arm. My bone was completely ripped out of my arm. My neck, (face and lip) were ripped open. I was bleeding everywhere.”

Mckenzie said she ran outside as her family locked the dogs in the basement, “begging” her family to care for her children.

“I thought I was going to die,” she said."


Beware,  the rest of the story including descriptions of her terrible injuries and photos at link

http://www.norwalkreflector.com/Loc...ht-I-was-going-to-die.html?ci=stream&lp=1&p=1

.


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## RadishRose (Jun 2, 2018)

StarSong said:


> I read this post earlier today.  Happened to go to the grocery store and while at the register, my line's grocery bagger was talking with the checker about his need to rehome his dog or at least get it fostered for a time.  The checker said that her little dog is terrified of other dogs so she was sorry, but couldn't consider taking his dog.  My husband and I have been toying with the idea of getting a second small dog, so I asked what kind of dog he had.  Pit bull mix.  Eek.
> 
> I shook my head sadly, saying that I'd just read an article about a pit bull killing a nine month old child.  He said that all PBs get a bad rap for some, but all three of us acknowledged that it's not merely the way they're trained.  Needless to say, I didn't go any further with that conversation.
> 
> On the other hand, if you ever happen to catch Cesar Milan's TV shows you'll notice that his go-to calming dog is a purebread pit bull.  Interesting.



Yes, Caesar called him "Daddy"; he was gray. That dog was amazing! I believe he died awhile ago, sadly. He helped a lot of nervous dogs.


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## StarSong (Jun 2, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> Yes, Caesar called him "Daddy"; he was gray. That dog was amazing! I believe he died awhile ago, sadly. He helped a lot of nervous dogs.



You're right, RR, but before Daddy died Cesar replaced him with another grey pit bull that he named Junior.  https://www.cesarsway.com/cesar-millan/junior/juniors-story


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## justfred (Jun 3, 2018)

Dogs are very strange creatures and some are so faithful to their masters that they will die for them. Have you heard of Greyfriars Bobby?. There is a statue to him in Scotland. A wee dog that when his master died the dog sat on his grave and no matter how he was coached would not leave. People came and fed him where he lay and he stayed there until he too died.
Almost the same thing happened here. The dogs owner died and the dog was at the graveside when he was buried and refused to leave. It stayed there for several weeks before he was taken away and rehoused by the RSPCA.
Strange creatures indeed and more to the fact, we humans do not know what makes some of them turn on their owners. Should a law be brought in that all dogs that are a potential danger be muzzled when out of the house?


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## hearlady (Jun 3, 2018)

I was friends with a lady I used to work with. Her son got a pit bull and like in some cases my friend ended up with custody.
We both left that job and I would have liked to stay in touch but I have to admit I didn't because of her dog. I keep up with her on Facebook and her beautiful granddaughter. She talks about how protective the dog is from her boyfriend.
I would never visit her at her home. I just hope nothing ever happens.


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## Lara (Jun 3, 2018)

Cesar's pit bull was highly trained by Cesar, a man of magical skills and inborn talents including

strength, consistency, firmness, confidence, determination, knowledge, leadership, intuitiveness, focus, etc etc etc.

...a perfect cocktail for success that the majority of common man lacks.
`


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## StarSong (Jun 3, 2018)

Lara said:


> Cesar's pit bull was highly trained by Cesar, a man of magical skills and inborn talents including
> 
> strength, consistency, firmness, confidence, determination, knowledge, leadership, intuitiveness, focus, etc etc etc.
> 
> ...



Agreed that Cesar Millan is well worthy of his Dog Whisperer nickname.  He has remarkable talents, skills, experience, empathy and persistence when dealing with difficult animals and their (typically misguided) humans.  

I have no such skills and am neither an apologist for nor a defender of pit bulls.  Nevertheless, I cannot help but wonder if humans haven't contributed mightily to this breed's terrible reputation, given that Mr. Millan has chosen a purebred pit bull not once, but twice, for the leader of his personal and professional pack.  

Please understand that my statement are strictly academic.  As a human who can barely housebreak a dog, I wouldn't dream of having a pit bull in my home nor would I be likely to visit someone who had one in theirs.


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## applecruncher (Jun 3, 2018)

I've heard pit bull defenders say Cesar Milan has a pit bull, Rachel Ray has a pit bull, blah blah blah. To that I say "So what?" Means nothing to me. I stand by what I said upthread.


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## Traveler (Jun 3, 2018)

applecruncher said:


> I've heard pit bull defenders say Cesar Milan has a pit bull, Rachel Ray has a pit bull, blah blah blah. To that I say "So what?" Means nothing to me. I stand by what I said upthread.



Yes, indeed. It seems that no matter what the topic, there is always someone who points out the exception. As if that makes the slightest difference.


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## StarSong (Jun 3, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Yes, indeed. It seems that no matter what the topic, there is always someone who points out the exception. As if that makes the slightest difference.



Ouch.  Since the subject at hand was pit bulls, I was mentioning an interesting tidbit.  I wans't advocating for them but rather pointing out Cesar Millan's success with two members of this breed.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 3, 2018)

I wouldn't want my baby in a home that had any kind of dog, especially not a pit bull. So sad that this sweet little girl is gone and her mother has to bear this terrible heartbreak, likely for the rest of her life, over what she said was the best thing in her life. My heart goes out to her and the grandmother who is probably feeling an incredible amount of guilt.


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