# Monthly Budget 4,000??



## phoenixbound

Hello everyone,

 Great advice and tips here. About me. I am not retired yet, but I am very close to setting a date. I will be 67 in Nov, still working, am already collecting SSN and signed up for Medicare, I am also getting care as needed from the VA Health System, my wife is already retired, house and vehicles paid for, credit card not zero but manageable, we have a place in Kansas City, MO and a small place in Phoenix that we travel to in the winter, I travel for my job and it doesn't matter where I live as long as it is close to a major airport. 

My brother is a Certified Financial Planner and we have been working through the financial planning aspect of retirement. He has told me and I believe it that the most important step in final retirement is to create a retirement monthly budget after some honest reflection about what you currently spend and what your future needs will be. I have been working on that. Funny thing he said was that quite often it comes to about $4,000 a month and sure enough that is pretty close to where I am at. 

Anyone else go through this exercise and come to about the same conclusion? Just curious. I like my job and I not in a huge rush to leave, but retirement sounds better every day. Thanks everyone.


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## mathjak107

I find trying to project what you need vs what you have to actually work with is a waste of time. What good  is coming up with a budget if your resources can’t support it. 

Everything beyond a tent in a warm climate is a lifestyle want. We can modify our lifestyles to fit what we have .

my preference is to see what can my portfolio safely generate ,what our other income sources are and then mold the lifestyle to fit . 

It it never makes much sense basing a budget around either a percentage of a working income that no longer exists or trying to determine a budget based on a lifestyle supported by a pay check or 2 .

i find it makes much more sense seeing what you have to work with then back in to the lifestyle to fit


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## Aunt Bea

The number is different for each of us.

My monthly expenses didn't change much when I retired. Work-related expenses, retirement savings and withholding taxes went down, the cost of health insurance went up.

I would encourage you to make sure that your retirement budget is brutally honest and comprehensive. Make sure it includes savings each month for repairs, replacements, emergencies, and a touch of luxury.

It is also good to live a little below your means to help deal with the inevitable increases in the cost of living as we get older.

Good luck!


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## mathjak107

The problem with the mantra live below your means is like most mantras it has  no actionable meaning .

means changes . It changes with markets , interest rates , rising expenses and of course job loss,illness and divorce .

what matters is really the ratio of discretionary vs non discretionary spending.  We can live the lifestyle we do here in queens and have quite a bit of flexibility in our spending if push came to shove,

but for the same budget we could live in Manhattan. But that would have very little place to cut back . So both are below our means but if push came to shove Manhattan consists of a lot less discretionary spending.

when it comes down to just what most of these mantras mean in life they sound good but end up really having little value


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## Gary O'

Seems a no brainer
Live within yer means

Mantra? pssssht
More like Credo

We don’t touch $1000/mo
Don’t even know what I’d do with it
I may buy gold, if anything

Been that way for pushing four years now
Heh, most folks here would think I live in extreme poverty

Well to do, for me, is having 14 cord of would stacked up for the next two winters






and living each moment in the comfort, joy and satisfaction of hard work...with my hands, gives us


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## Aunt Bea

Gary O' said:


> Seems a no brainer
> Live within yer means


_"There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means."_ - Calvin Coolidge


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## mathjak107

Once of course you identify what your means is at any given moment  of course .

the problem really is there is very little out there about how to spend .  we have all sorts of investing information , rules for retirement draws  , etc but very little on how to spend .

how much should be ear marked for the short term ?  how much should be discretionary vs non discretionary , how much should a car budget be ?  , a housing budget  ?  etc ec . all you ever see is live below your means , whatever that is supposed to mean .

fidelity has started to work in that direction and for a non retiree came up with about a 30% discretionary  spending formula .   DO YOU SEE HOW THAT  BELOW  IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN JUST SAYING LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS WHICH IS NOT A PLAN AT ALL . there is nothing actually  actionable in those words


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## phoenixbound

Interesting. Don't know about you guys, but after retirement starts there will be no more deposits in retirement savings. That I do know for sure.


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## mathjak107

well there may not be deposits but there can  certainly be dumping in extra money or the gains themselves still growing . this is our third year in retirement and we have been drawing out 6 figures to live . our balance is way higher today than the day we retired .

with some good basic investing you can grow your money in retirement passively letting your money work for you instead of  of the  younger days when you worked  for your money .


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## Aunt Bea

phoenixbound said:


> Interesting. Don't know about you guys, but after retirement starts there will be no more deposits in retirement savings. That I do know for sure.



I haven't made any additional deposits into my retirement accounts since I stopped working in 2005, the balances continue to grow over time because I live below my means.

I have made other taxable investments/deposits since I retired, once a saver always a saver.


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## Capt Lightning

If you have a look further down this forum, a few weeks ago there was a discussion of Average retirement costs.  I appreciate that costs in the UK are different to the US (especially in the case of medical and old age care), but the general consensus here was the equivalent of  $35k  to $50k USD.
So,not too far different to $4000 a month for a comfortable retirement.


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## mathjak107

we all earned very different amounts when we worked didn't we ? of course . we did and what we spent  all depended on where we lived and the lifestyle choice we added in . more money usually means more or better lifestyle choices possible .

based on our rent in a rent stabilized building in queens in nyc and medical insurance / long term care insurance plus dental about 1/2 that 50k would be gone with nothing else in the picture . in fact more than 1/2 if we include taxes 
i can see 50k per person in which case that would be 100k household income  where we live , that would  remove a lot of what we enjoy  but we could do it . so the number of people is a factor too


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## mathjak107

i work one day a week so that all goes in to my ira and my wife's  ira , since me working can fill hers too


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## Gary O'

mathjak107 said:


> Once of course you identify what your means is at any given moment  of course .
> 
> the problem really is there is very little out there about how to spend .  we have all sorts of investing information , rules for retirement draws  , etc but very little on how to spend .
> 
> how much should be ear marked for the short term ?  how much should be discretionary vs non discretionary , how much should a car budget be ?  , a housing budget  ?  etc ec . all you ever see is live below your means , whatever that is supposed to mean .
> 
> fidelity has started to work in that direction and for a non retiree came up with about a 30% discretionary  spending formula .   DO YOU SEE HOW THAT  BELOW  IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN JUST SAYING LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS WHICH IS NOT A PLAN AT ALL . there is nothing actually  actionable in those words



math-

I’ve appreciated your views on finances in past posts

However, you’ve gone a bit beyond my scope here
(No great feat, pretty easy to do…don’t try to break it down for me, your time will be squandered)

Anyway

_'Live within yer means'_;

Less outgo than income

Drive what you can afford

Live where you can afford

I'm not trying to be nebulous
I know the range varies, but its basic math for me

I could buy a new pickup, cash.
I choose to drive a ’93 GMC and keep the $20-$30K…or whatever new pickups cost
My Jimmy quits on me, or main bearings go, I’ll get another $2500 truck

As far as investments, I don’t play the market….too ignorant…too gullible
I just bumble along, putting meager money away

I chose a financially feasible health insurance plan for me, just to cover large horrible things
Dr visits still get nicely discounted by Medicare

I dunno, man, I’m not fat, but rich in the dumb and happy depts 

forgive me


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## mathjak107

people get in to trouble because  they live below what they think they can support  ( their means as it is called ) , but , and a big  BUT . if that budget is made up of all needs and few wants  there can be no where to cut back from  when means changes as it does all the time  for most of us .

unless you have a pension in retirement we are all subject to the markets ,rates and inflation  for our income . then we have our health issues that develop , divorce issues ,  helping family members , etc . so means ends up being variable .

so it really becomes the balance between  the discretionary and non discretionary spending that lets us adapt as means changes .


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## StarSong

Gary O' said:


> math-
> 
> I’ve appreciated your views on finances in past posts
> 
> However, you’ve gone a bit beyond my scope here
> (No great feat, pretty easy to do…don’t try to break it down for me, your time will be squandered)
> 
> Anyway
> 
> _'Live within yer means'_;
> 
> Less outgo than income
> 
> Drive what you can afford
> 
> Live where you can afford
> 
> I'm not trying to be nebulous
> I know the range varies, but its basic math for me
> 
> I could buy a new pickup, cash.
> I choose to drive a ’93 GMC and keep the $20-$30K…or whatever new pickups cost
> My Jimmy quits on me, or main bearings go, I’ll get another $2500 truck
> 
> As far as investments, I don’t play the market….too ignorant…too gullible
> I just bumble along, putting meager money away
> 
> I chose a financially feasible health insurance plan for me, just to cover large horrible things
> Dr visits still get nicely discounted by Medicare
> 
> I dunno, man, I’m not fat, but rich in the dumb and happy depts
> 
> forgive me



So much of this is also true for me, Gary.  I'm a practical person who's good with basic math.  
I've lived long enough to know that with interest 2 + 2 (will eventually) = 5.  

Investments may end up 2 + 2 = 7, but just as often it happens that  2 + 2 = 3.  Or worse.  

I'm satisfied to stay with the 4 to 5, forecast it as 4 and draw from it as if it were 3.


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## KingsX

.

I didn't have a $4000 monthly disposable income even when I was working.
Yet I was able to retire comfortably at age 55 and 11 years later, my nest egg
is still growing.

My point is... retirement income is only relative to individual lifestyle and expenses.
One size does not fit all.

.


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## KingsX

Aunt Bea said:


> I haven't made any additional deposits into my retirement accounts since I stopped working in 2005, the balances continue to grow over time because I live below my means.
> 
> I have made other taxable investments/deposits since I retired, once a saver always a saver.




Bravo! Great job!

I do the same thing.   

Big spenders aren't able to comprehend that we are doing what comes natural for us...
this is our normal and preferred lifestyle.


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## Colleen

Gary O' said:


> math-
> 
> I’ve appreciated your views on finances in past posts
> 
> However, you’ve gone a bit beyond my scope here
> (No great feat, pretty easy to do…don’t try to break it down for me, your time will be squandered)
> 
> Anyway
> 
> _'Live within yer means'_;
> 
> Less outgo than income
> 
> Drive what you can afford
> 
> Live where you can afford
> 
> I'm not trying to be nebulous
> I know the range varies, but its basic math for me
> 
> I could buy a new pickup, cash.
> I choose to drive a ’93 GMC and keep the $20-$30K…or whatever new pickups cost
> My Jimmy quits on me, or main bearings go, I’ll get another $2500 truck
> 
> As far as investments, I don’t play the market….too ignorant…too gullible
> I just bumble along, putting meager money away
> 
> I chose a financially feasible health insurance plan for me, just to cover large horrible things
> Dr visits still get nicely discounted by Medicare
> 
> I dunno, man, I’m not fat, but rich in the dumb and happy depts
> 
> forgive me



I agree, Gary.


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## Colleen

mathjak107 said:


> Once of course you identify what your means is at any given moment  of course .
> 
> the problem really is there is very little out there about how to spend .  we have all sorts of investing information , rules for retirement draws  , etc but very little on how to spend .
> 
> how much should be ear marked for the short term ?  how much should be discretionary vs non discretionary , how much should a car budget be ?  , a housing budget  ?  etc ec . all you ever see is live below your means , whatever that is supposed to mean .
> 
> fidelity has started to work in that direction and for a non retiree came up with about a 30% discretionary  spending formula .   DO YOU SEE HOW THAT  BELOW  IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN JUST SAYING LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS WHICH IS NOT A PLAN AT ALL . there is nothing actually  actionable in those words



Mathjak....If you can afford to squander money on $500 dinners and brag about living on 6 figures, I say...how nice for you but what I don't like is the way you dish out this "advice" to us peons. You boast about what you have and look down your nose at us "average" retirees and scold us because we didn't do enough over the years to have the means to live like you do. You have NO clue what it's like to live "average". Personally, I wouldn't live where you live if they gave me the place. Been there years ago and thought then that it was a dirty, disgusting place. Quit preaching and showing graphs because no one cares.


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## Pete

Gary O' said:


> Seems a no brainer Live within yer means



Your  a man after my own heart Gary O'!

Guess if I never found my wilderness home I would need a lot more $ to retire on, but God had other plans and led me to my Northern Alaska cabin where after 14 years in the woods I found one does not need a lot to keep one happy. I actually find it quite amusing when I do turn on my local TV and watch some of the commercials which make you feel bad if you do not have the latest of whatever they are selling.



...and God willing I will return next spring
         to drift down these waters 
and live out whatever time he has given me.​


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## Colleen

Pete...that's wonderful! Hope you have many more enjoyable years doing what you love


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## Colleen

We live on a little over $4500/mo. We don't have a lot of expenses except for a house payment and a car payment, which will be paid off soon. No more new cars for us in the future! We've traveled as much as we wanted from 2001-2012 and don't care to wander too far from home these days. I have a hobby (I make quilts for charity) and hubby is a trapshooter and goes to one big shoot each year. We don't have any grandkids so no added expenses there. We are able to put at least half of our monthly "allowance" away in an account that earns 2% interest. We have a cashback CC we use for everything (except house and car payments) and we get a few hundred back every year. We are healthy and don't have any medical bills. We don't need much from the grocery store any more and we don't need clothes for work. We live in AZ so our wardrobe is limited to shorts and jeans.

I guess my point is...if you have $4000/mo., don't spend $4000/mo......and you shouldn't have to if your house is paid for. I think it depends on where you live what the COL will be and what you want to do. If travel is on the agenda, it will cost you. You'll have to budget more.

I'm a firm believer in living below your means. You never know what life will throw at you. Prepare for the unexpected. Have a cushion stashed away just in case.


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## KingsX

.

mathjak107's talent is how to invest to get an income to live like a king.

But being a king [or a queen as the case might be] was never my style or my desire. 

 Besides, kings worry about revolutions that affect the source of their incomes.

Like Pete,  I'm the kind who prefers to live free and independently in a cozy little cottage as far away from royalty as possible.


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## KingsX

Colleen said:


> We live on a little over $4500/mo. We don't have a lot of expenses except for a house payment and a car payment, which will be paid off soon. No more new cars for us in the future! We've traveled as much as we wanted from 2001-2012 and don't care to wander too far from home these days. I have a hobby (I make quilts for charity) and hubby is a trapshooter and goes to one big shoot each year. We don't have any grandkids so no added expenses there. We are able to put at least half of our monthly "allowance" away in an account that earns 2% interest. We have a cashback CC we use for everything (except house and car payments) and we get a few hundred back every year. We are healthy and don't have any medical bills. We don't need much from the grocery store any more and we don't need clothes for work. We live in AZ so our wardrobe is limited to shorts and jeans.
> 
> I guess my point is...if you have $4000/mo., don't spend $4000/mo......and you shouldn't have to if your house is paid for. I think it depends on where you live what the COL will be and what you want to do. If travel is on the agenda, it will cost you. You'll have to budget more.
> 
> I'm a firm believer in living below your means. You never know what life will throw at you. Prepare for the unexpected. Have a cushion stashed away just in case.




You are blessed 

I will buy a reasonably priced, dependable new car...  then drive it for over a decade.
My Honda Civic is going on 15 years old and I love it.  I hope it lasts forever.  But I do
expect to have to replace it eventually with another new Honda Civic that should last
me the rest of my life.

Btw... CD interest rates are going up.  First Guaranty Bank [based in Louisiana, with 
branches in Texas]  has a 5 year CD at 3.50%.


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## mathjak107

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> mathjak107's talent is how to invest to get an income to live like a king.
> 
> But being a king [or a queen as the case might be] was never my style or my desire.
> 
> Besides, kings worry about revolutions that affect the source of their incomes.
> 
> Like Pete,  I'm the kind who prefers to live free and independently in a cozy little cottage as far away from royalty as possible.



no , my investing is nothing more than utilizing the typical allocation to equities  of 40-60% that has been used by many retirees to provide their income flow on all levels . in fact vanguard wellesley income with it's 40/60 allocation is one of the most popular one stop shoipping  that retirees use .

so you are pretty off base with the living like a king analogy . there is nothing special going on other then to generate a safe withdrawal rate . identical investing allocations are used by millions of retirees with all sorts of asset bases and income levels . an allocation that allows a 4% safe withdrawal rate is nothing special except to those who have little knowledge of what is involved in planning a retirement income that is efficiant for the asset pile , safe , secure and consistent


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## Knight

The op posted 


Quote
"important step in final retirement is to create a retirement monthly budget"


That seems to me to be late in the overall planning for retirement. Planning should include knowing what your what your expenses are before retiring, and what you have ready to meet the expenses you expect to have in retirement. Will what you have grow without a paycheck or will depletion take it's toll? 


Expectations change as we age, what lifestyle we choose to live is unique to us all. If we plan well we can meet the cost of needs and unexpected events that can take a big bite out of our finances. Peace of mind is the real target in retirement, not how much we have to spend on wants.


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## KingsX

.

I don't keep a monthly budget that I adhere to...  but I do keep a record of all my spending.

I also keep a monthly tally of how much of my nest egg money is where. This info is kept and updated also for the benefit of my heirs.  As long as my nest egg keeps increasing month over month,   I'm happy


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## Colleen

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> I don't keep a monthly budget that I adhere to...  but I do keep a record of all my spending.
> 
> I also keep a monthly tally of how much of my nest egg money is where. This info is kept and updated also for the benefit of my heirs.  As long as my nest egg keeps increasing month over month,   I'm happy



Same here. We have the same bills every month and they are set up to be paid automatically when due. The only exception is the cashback CC. I keep track of that and pay it off a couple times a month (that's what we get paid is twice a month). I also keep a notebook with everything written in it for future reference by step-kids so they know what needs to be done if I would pass on before hubby. Whatever is left over with each pay goes into a savings. Easy peasy


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## Aunt Bea

Another notebook keeper!

I write down what I spend each day.

I make a loose annual budget and a loose monthly budget on New Year's Day based on what I've spent in the past and any known changes in spending for the coming year.

As each month goes by if my spending is a little high I try to _tap the brakes _a little and bring things back into line.

If something comes up that is important to me I take money from my stash and use it to fund the item or cut back in other areas,_ YOLO!!!



_


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## mathjak107

i love fidelity full view . because every dollar we spend is automatically tracked there is nothing to write down . we can click on any date range  and bingo we get a total to date . easy peasy . fraud in decades has never been a problem because of linkage


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## Gary O'

Pete said:


> Your  a man after my own heart Gary O'!
> 
> Guess if I never found my wilderness home I would need a lot more $ to retire on, but God had other plans and led me to my Northern Alaska cabin where after 14 years in the woods I found one does not need a lot to keep one happy. I actually find it quite amusing when I do turn on my local TV and watch some of the commercials which make you feel bad if you do not have the latest of whatever they are selling.
> 
> View attachment 54402
> 
> ...and God willing I will return next spring
> to drift down these waters
> and live out whatever time he has given me.​


Man!!!! You got this, my Brother!!!


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## KingsX

mathjak107 said:


> i love fidelity full view . because every dollar we spend is automatically tracked there is nothing to write down . we can click on any date range  and bingo we get a total to date . easy peasy . fraud in decades has never been a problem because of linkage




Yeah we get it... you are in love with your computer and the stock market.

Personally I prefer writing things down the old-fashioned way.  Doing so serves to reinforce one's resolve.


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## C_Sally

Though my home and cars (a sedan and a truck) were paid for I immediately downsized upon retirement, a plan that was set two years prior, and I was very excited about it. I may buy another home, but am enjoying easy living in my small apartment for now. I wonder if people generally confuse the term "downsizing" with "living below your means"? I agree the term living below your means is an odd one. Living smaller, or more simply, is what I chose and I love it.


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## mathjak107

i am not in love with either . but i am smart enough to make efficient use of my assets so my money now works for me while i spent a lifetime working for my money  and  i use technology  to make life easier and smarter .

yeah we get you too . you live the way you do , but anyone who wants  to safely draw a 4% income from their assets and invests the way it is recommended to invest to have a high rate of success  , lives  like a king  or queen . what financially ignorant  nonsense .


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## Aunt Bea




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## KingsX

C_Sally said:


> I agree the term living below your means is an odd one.





I've head the term "live below your means" all my life.

On one level it means spending less money than you take in. 

On another level it means your lifestyle should be below your ability to pay for it. 

At first glance,  those two definitions might seem to say the same thing, but they don't. 

There is a difference between "spending money" and "lifestyle."  Like a friend of mine,  some people who have "champagne taste on a beer budget"... live the  champagne lifestyle when they get paid... then are forced to live without either  champagne or beer once that money runs out... until they get paid again... then the vicious cycle repeats.  Needless to say,  they are not savers. They try to continue their  champagne lifestyle as long as possible  by getting into more and more debt until they become bankrupt.


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## mathjak107

in my opinion it is really about the ratio of discretionary to non discretionary spending . means is changing all the time .  you can't cut back as means changes as markets , health , rates , emergency spending , etc all change ,  when your budget is all needs and little wants so to speak .


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## garyt1957

mathjak107 said:


> Once of course you identify what your means is at any given moment  of course .
> 
> the problem really is there is very little out there about how to spend .  we have all sorts of investing information , rules for retirement draws  , etc but very little on how to spend .
> 
> how much should be ear marked for the short term ?  how much should be discretionary vs non discretionary , how much should a car budget be ?  , a housing budget  ?  etc ec . all you ever see is live below your means , whatever that is supposed to mean .
> 
> fidelity has started to work in that direction and for a non retiree came up with about a 30% discretionary  spending formula .   DO YOU SEE HOW THAT  BELOW  IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN JUST SAYING LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS WHICH IS NOT A PLAN AT ALL . there is nothing actually  actionable in those words


Semantics. I'm quite sure that everyone who says LBYM has a plan that goes with that, including a percentage for retirement savings, etc. That's the whole point of LBYM, you don't spend every penny you could and you save the rest.


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## mathjak107

We wish that was true but data and studies show other wise. Most budgets are mostly non discretionary with little savings and to much spent in other areas. Many  people are living within budget but the budget construction is not so good . Little is really out there about how to spend


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## OneEyedDiva

When I realized I was going to retire earlier than I had originally planned, I bumped up my Deferred Compensation plan contributions to the max (20%). I was also saving/investing $1,100 a month privately. That means I had to learn to live on less money. There are all kinds of "rules of thumb" but it boils down to each person's particular set of circumstances. My colleagues, all of whom had more time in with the state than I did, said I couldn't make it retiring at 50. I was paid as if I was 51 but took a 12% cut in my pension for leaving 4 years early. Still I've had a very comfortable retirement. Learning to live on less while I was working certainly helped make the financial adjustment in retirement; I retired debt free and I have an excellent health benefits package.  I've read about people who retired on 50% (and even less) of what their salaries were. Yet the "experts" say you'll need 80% at least. 

What you'll need depends on what your basic living expenses are, what kind of retiree health benefits you'll have, what your retirement income will be from a pension or 401K, social security and your private portfolio. Will your lifestyle be more extravagant than is pratical?  How frugal you can be and whether or not you're still in debt and how much debt will also be factors. BTW frugal does not mean you forgo enjoying what life has to offer.


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## Vinny

My fixed expenses are about $40K a year but we can reduce that. So we need $3333 a month to pay all of our fixed costs. Our Social Security is $4333 a month so that gives us a $1000 a month cushion. My mandatory 401K withdrawals are about $12,000 a year so that is our fun money. Plus I have another $340,000 in 3% 5 year CD's and high yield savings account. Since we had no kids we do not need to save for any heirs. I do want to keep a few hundred thousand for assisted living. We did everything we ever wanted to do in our younger years while most here were busy raising kids and paying for their schooling. So while they are spending on cruises and other things they put off, we have been there and done that. After being in 21 countries I have no more desire to travel. Just am enjoying my hobbies and socializing with friends so we should be OK money wise. We did relocate 8 years ago into a small house and a State with no City or State taxes. My property taxes in NJ was $14K a year. Here it iw $1,300 a year. I could not afford to live up north in my retirement. 

As long as I can get 3% a year to keep up with COLA I do not need to invest in the stock market. My risk tolerance is very low after the last two recessions. I have no mortgage so no matter what I will always be able to live here just on SS money. I can do without the expensive car and premium cable TV. I can get a reverse mortgage as a last resort or simply sell my house which has appreciated $90K already and move into a smaller house or apartment. For me not to lose sleep I need to make sure I have an emergency fund an no risky investments having been burned twice.


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## OneEyedDiva

Vinny said:


> My fixed expenses are about $40K a year but we can reduce that. So we need $3333 a month to pay all of our fixed costs. Our Social Security is $4333 a month so that gives us a $1000 a month cushion. My mandatory 401K withdrawals are about $12,000 a year so that is our fun money. Plus I have another $340,000 in 3% 5 year CD's and high yield savings account. Since we had no kids we do not need to save for any heirs. I do want to keep a few hundred thousand for assisted living. We did everything we ever wanted to do in our younger years while most here were busy raising kids and paying for their schooling. So while they are spending on cruises and other things they put off, we have been there and done that. After being in 21 countries I have no more desire to travel. Just am enjoying my hobbies and socializing with friends so we should be OK money wise. We did relocate 8 years ago into a small house and a State with no City or State taxes. My property taxes in NJ was $14K a year. Here it iw $1,300 a year. I could not afford to live up north in my retirement.
> 
> As long as I can get 3% a year to keep up with COLA I do not need to invest in the stock market. My risk tolerance is very low after the last two recessions. I have no mortgage so no matter what I will always be able to live here just on SS money. I can do without the expensive car and premium cable TV. I can get a reverse mortgage as a last resort or simply sell my house which has appreciated $90K already and move into a smaller house or apartment. For me not to lose sleep I need to make sure I have an emergency fund an no risky investments having been burned twice.


Vinny everyone must do what's comfortable for them (as long as they don't wind up digging their financial graves). No one should lose sleep because of their investment allocations. Seems like you planned wisely and have a very good handle on your financial situation. I have a surprisingly aggressive style of investing for my age, though not as risky as speculative investing. Like you, I have more than enough to cover my personal monthly expenses with about $1,100 left over, which I save/invest. I get a pension as well as SS.  When Christie was in office, he stopped our COLAs but I understand it was necessary because our pension fund is billions underfunded. We (Muslims) are not supposed to invest in interest bearing products so I focus on dividend & capital gain paying investments. "Cash" makes up about 25% of my portfolio.  Due to our timeshare and it's exchange club affiliation, we can vacation very inexpensively.  I'm debt free, except what I charge (and pay in full) on a monthly basis. No longer have a car, reduced fare public transportation and Uber/Lyft are readily available for when my husband can't take me where I need to go.  I'm hoping that I won't have to spend my portfolio on nursing home care or a catastrophic illness so that I can leave most of it for my heirs.


----------



## KingsX

OneEyedDiva said:


> *We (Muslims) are not supposed to invest in interest bearing products so I focus on dividend & capital gain paying investments.*




Some banks/credit unions call their percentage CD distributions "dividends" [instead of "interest."]
What's the difference ?

.


----------



## mathjak107

a dividend is a return of your own principal which is subtracted off your share price .  interest comes from someone paying you for the use of your money .



the money paid out comes from the operation of a business and unless you are invested in a bank not the loaning of money.

i guess they consider the loaning of a money a good deed , but it is okay to make money off others running a business


----------



## Aunt Bea

KingsX said:


> Some banks/credit unions call their percentage CD distributions "dividends" [instead of "interest."]
> What's the difference ?
> 
> .



IMO some financial institutions use the term dividend because a dividend is paid out of profits, if the business does not make a profit no dividend.

Interest, on the other hand, is a contractual obligation that must be met even if the business is not profitable.


----------



## KingsX

.

As I said... I have had regular CDs at banks and my credit union pay the regular interest percentage... 
but instead of the word,  "interest",  they use the word,  "dividend"... but how, when and how much
is paid is the very same as if it were interest.


----------



## Creek Pirate

You can always live frugal, but learning the basics to investing is also never wrong. When the markets currently are delivering above 6% in index funds, it would pay to think long and hard on not investing. CD's and bank accounts are delivering less than inflation, you are losing money every year. The value of today's money in the mattress will buy far less next year. Fruit going bad on the vine. But to each his / her own. Why not learn both investing and frugal living?


----------



## mathjak107

CDs ,banks and money markets should be either money waiting to be spent , or money waiting to be invested elsewhere ...it rarely pays to sit in cash as your investment ....cash can also be used to temper high equity positions instead of bonds . But the point is cash is a poor proxy for an investment


----------



## Floridatennisplayer

A year old thread brought back from the dead and the OP never returned.  I wonder if I know him from another financial forum.

Anyway, before a person makes the leap into retirement I agree with the OP.  It’s really just math.  You need to know what your expenses are and what your income will be.  That’s where you need to start.  Then you can go from there.

Fidelity has a great retirement tool that you can use on their website.  It’s free for anyone.  When I sat down with a Fidelity team 5 years ago, the first thing they asked me was what I thought my annual expenses were.  They smiled when I told them what I thought it was.  We started the expense tracker.  Hours later I couldn’t believe it.  My expenses were actually 2 and a half times higher than my educated guess.  I thought, this can’t be correct.  But it was and is.  I suggest everyone check it out.


----------



## Suzy623

With both of us working and raising 4 kids, I chose to use the 'mantra' below when we put the kids in private school. It included some money put away every month to cover those unexpected incidents that seem to plague families who live on a tight budget (i.e., unexpected sudden trip to Holland when a parent died, auto repairs, hospital bills not covered by insurance). The money we could put aside was sometimes a great deal less that we would have liked but it was at least something. Maybe this was my motivation of living within our means.

If your outgo exceeds your income,
Your upkeep will be your downfall.


----------



## TravelinMan

In my case, I scrimped and saved and planned for 20 years and then, lastly, I sat down with a certified financial planner and shared all of my assets and expenses and he ran them through a computer program.  The end result was that I would have enough money to last me until age 100+.  The key for me was to establish income streams well before retirement and then let my SS income grow at 8% until age 71 and judicious investing well before then.  Now that I am 70+ I can pretty much do what ever I want to do.  I have LTC insurance so that I know that I will never be a burden on my family.

What is hard is to change my thinking from being ultra frugal to spending on myself what ever I want.  Yes, I keep my car for 15+ years, have not debts, no mortgage, own 3 houses and give to whomever I want.  I did this all on incomes of 70K per year or less over about 20 years.  It is not really that hard, just consult a competent financial planner professional and follow their advice.

Listen to mathjak107 and his kind and you can do it too.


----------



## fmdog44

After the first couple years of retirement my activity and spending have diminished. I have become a home body more or less. My nest egg is doing fine. I enjoy driving to some small towns in Texas just to rub elbows with the people there. I like to see how other folks live especially in small rural towns. I don't know if they are any happier especially now with the internet that brings them all the crappy news of the world they don't want any part of.


----------



## fmdog44

Gary O' said:


> Seems a no brainer
> Live within yer means
> 
> Mantra? pssssht
> More like Credo
> 
> We don’t touch $1000/mo
> Don’t even know what I’d do with it
> I may buy gold, if anything
> 
> Been that way for pushing four years now
> Heh, most folks here would think I live in extreme poverty
> 
> Well to do, for me, is having 14 cord of would stacked up for the next two winters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and living each moment in the comfort, joy and satisfaction of hard work...with my hands, gives us


That wood lasts only two years Gary'O? Did you move to Siberia?


----------



## Gary O'

fmdog44 said:


> That wood lasts only two years Gary'O? Did you move to Siberia?


Actually, that represented three, maybe four light winter seasons.
One season we did burn seven cord.
That winter was long, Oct thru April and into May.
Felt like Siberia.
Had a low of -37°F for three days straight.
A slight breeze at that temp will rip yer face off.
Live in the mountains, you get what it gives, take what it lets you have.


----------



## mathjak107

Suzy623 said:


> With both of us working and raising 4 kids, I chose to use the 'mantra' below when we put the kids in private school. It included some money put away every month to cover those unexpected incidents that seem to plague families who live on a tight budget (i.e., unexpected sudden trip to Holland when a parent died, auto repairs, hospital bills not covered by insurance). The money we could put aside was sometimes a great deal less that we would have liked but it was at least something. Maybe this was my motivation of living within our means.
> 
> If your outgo exceeds your income,
> Your upkeep will be your downfall.


one thing i want to mention is this old useless credo  "live below your means "  really means nothing ... it is as useless a saying as buy stocks with good growth potential ...

the problem is not only does means change but  the ratio between discretionary and non discretionary spending is what it really is about ... how much is not only left for savings is very important but if everything is a need and not a want you may have little to cut back on if need be even though you are spending less then you take in .

so it is not just a case of live below your means , it is a case of having a healthy savings rate and  ratio of discretionary vs non discretionary spending ...  if you had  buck left over according to the credo live below your means you would be adhering to it but that is not a good idea .

so people need a spending plan like they do for other aspects of life .

one methods suggests    50% essential expenses /   15% retirement savings / 5% short term saving , 30% discretionary spending .

you can see that is far more useful then just live below your means  which in itself is not an actionable plan ... this is just a pet peeve  of mine because it is spewed often but really means little


----------



## Liberty

fmdog44 said:


> After the first couple years of retirement my activity and spending have diminished. I have become a home body more or less. My nest egg is doing fine. I enjoy driving to some small towns in Texas just to rub elbows with the people there. I like to see how other folks live especially in small rural towns. I don't know if they are any happier especially now with the internet that brings them all the crappy news of the world they don't want any part of.


Ditto for us. We live not far away from Brenham and often take the drives to Roundtop and the German  hill country areas.  We were just talking about taking an overnighter  to see some small town Christmas lights in December.  Think there's a list of them somewhere on the web.  Used to travel a lot, now we're nesters and really enjoying it.


----------



## Uptosnuff

@mathjak107 
_"i find it makes much more sense seeing what you have to work with then back in to the lifestyle to fit "_

Totally agree.  When my husband stopped working and we had to live on just my paycheck, that's exactly what we had to do.  I would think it would be the same in retirement.  We have figured out that we will have just about the same income in retirement as my salary is now.   It was hard going the first few months after he quit working, but we made a few lifestyle adjustments and it's working out great.  It's easy to spend that money when you have two paychecks.   For us, it will also help out a lot to have no debt when I retire.


----------



## StarSong

If you are realizing great returns in the stock market you owe me a debt of gratitude for staying on the sidelines.  The surest way to predict an economic crash or bear market is for me to enter a booming one.  

I'll stick with CDs and other safe places to stash my cash, IRAs, and other retirement funds. Better low interest than a loss of principal. Been through both experiences several times, and much prefer the former.


----------



## mathjak107

up to now  a 50/50 mix of diversified  funds  has never lost a penny in any 10 or 20 year period ever . so yeah , it has to be you


----------



## StarSong

mathjak107 said:


> up to now  a 50/50 mix of diversified  funds  has never lost a penny in any 10 or 20 year period ever . so yeah , it has to be you


You're welcome.


----------



## Liberty

StarSong said:


> You're welcome.


Star, my husband feels exactly the same way!


----------



## fmdog44

mathjak107 said:


> up to now  a 50/50 mix of diversified  funds  has never lost a penny in any 10 or 20 year period ever . so yeah , it has to be you


So you flew over 2008?


----------



## mathjak107

fmdog44 said:


> So you flew over 2008?


you still did not lose money with 50/50 with any 10 or 20 year time frame that included 2008 in its numbers .

  . your returns were still positive over the 10 and 20 year period. you may have been down in years at times but over all if you stayed the course no one ever came out negative over any ten or 20 year time frame with a 50/50 allocation ...

not sure of why you are even bringing up one year  out of ten or 20 .. if someone got scared and bailed out in 2008 then that is bad investor behavior , not markets .

these are the worst outcomes for 50/50 we had.

starting in 2008 would not even make the chart as a worst case for a 10 year period


----------



## Lc jones

KingsX said:


> Bravo! Great job!
> 
> I do the same thing.
> 
> Big spenders aren't able to comprehend that we are doing what comes natural for us...
> this is our normal and preferred lifestyle.


I would agree, the reason why we’re living comfortably now in our retirement is because we sacrificed and lived way below our means when our children were growing up. While other people were living high on the hog going on vacations driving around the big trucks and buying all the newest gadgets we didn’t have any of that stuff we saved our money and now we live very comfortably in Florida and have a pool in our backyard, unless your Paris Hilton that’s how you have to do it If you want to live fairly comfortably in your retirement.


----------



## mathjak107

Lc jones said:


> I would agree, the reason why we’re living comfortably now in our retirement is because we sacrificed and lived way below our means when our children were growing up. While other people were living high on the hog going on vacations driving around the big trucks and buying all the newest gadgets we didn’t have any of that stuff we saved our money and now we live very comfortably in Florida and have a pool in our backyard, unless your Paris Hilton that’s how you have to do it If you want to live fairly comfortably in your retirement.


 I would never guess at the finances of people i don’t know ....for all you know they may have more assets then you do ...or they may have a nice juicy pension and dont need much savings ..
People make comments about others  wasting money all the time yet they know nothing about most of their finances ..

To be honest I always liked my spending and since 1974 I have bought new cars every 4-5 years ...

I always made sure I had money to invest though ....I started investing in my early twenties....so by becoming a better investor it let me spend more and I did not have to deprive myself of some of life’s perks  ..today we are in great financial shape but all of those who saw me get a new car every few years knew nothing about my finances.


----------



## Liberty

mathjak107 said:


> I would never guess at the finances of people i don’t know ....for all you know they may have more assets then you do ...or they may have a nice juicy pension and dont need much savings ..
> People make comments about others  wasting money all the time yet they know nothing about most of their finances ..
> 
> To be honest I always liked my spending and since 1974 I have bought new cars every 4-5 years ...
> 
> I always made sure I had money to invest though ....I started investing in my early twenties....so by becoming a better investor it let me spend more and I did not have to deprive myself of some of life’s perks  ..today we are in great financial shape but all of those who saw me get a new car every few years knew nothing about my finances.


That's true, you never know.  Folks see our "big place on so much land" and may think we we inherited a lot of bucks or something (not that there's anything wrong with making money the old fashioned way, some of our best friends have done it) its just that we had a "plan" when we first married.

 To build our own "starter castle" ourselves on land.  Did that and never had a mortgage.  Love it and since I'm a French trained chef, prepare gourmet meals at a fraction of the cost.  Know those secrets...ha ha. To each his own.  We are beyond being happy now.  Kid is doing great and grandkids are super good.  What's not to love, already!  Would pray all  those others are enjoying the fruits of their labors, also.


----------



## mathjak107

For some reason people think that anyone who spends more than they do on things is wasting money or not saving ....nonsense ....

you see the same comments all the time about Starbucks , buying lunch and iPhones ...but the truth is if someone saves 200 a month on their car and 300-400 a month on housing by doing things differently they can have starbucks every day and a Starbucks goody and still save more money then denying themselves their star bucks or buying lunch.

It makes no sense that  everything has to be compared to what others do ...


----------



## Liberty

mathjak107 said:


> For some reason people think that anyone who spends more than they do on things is wasting money or not saving ....nonsense ....
> 
> you see the same comments all the time about Starbucks , buying lunch and iPhones ...but the truth is if someone saves 200 a month on their car and 300-400 a month on housing by doing things differently they can have starbucks every day and a Starbucks goody and still save more money then denying themselves their star bucks or buying lunch.
> 
> It makes no sense that  everything has to be compared to what others do ...


That's so true.  Since I'm a French trained chef, have  a big working kitchen and about every size pot, pan or ramekin you could find in Sur La Table... we never want or need to spend tons of money on upscale overpriced restaurants.   Yet I buy the best meat or seafood money can buy so that might look extravagant as well as our lifestyle would, 
yet in reality we save money and enjoy life better!


----------



## mathjak107

Liberty said:


> That's so true.  Since I'm a French trained chef, have  a big working kitchen and about every size pot, pan or ramekin you could find in Sur La Table... we never want or need to spend tons of money on upscale overpriced restaurants.   Yet I buy the best meat or seafood money can buy so that might look extravagant as well as our lifestyle would,
> yet in reality we save money and enjoy life better!


A French chef - wow ...90% of what I eat comes through the driver side window lol


----------



## Liberty

mathjak107 said:


> A French chef - wow ...90% of what I eat comes through the driver side window lol


Yeah, and that is really sad.  Some people just don't know what great food tastes like or even care to learn.  Of course, you get used to hanging if you hang long enough, huh. My motto is "cook till I croak"...!


----------



## mathjak107

Liberty said:


> Yeah, and that is really sad.  Some people just don't know what great food tastes like or even care to learn.  Of course, you get used to hanging if you hang long enough, huh. My motto is "cook till I croak"...!


Actually my wife is a good cook ..but the kids gave her a screen name of badcook5 so we all kid her but she is really good ...we always tell her we say our prayers after we eat


----------



## Liberty

mathjak107 said:


> Actually my wife is a good cook ..but the kids gave her a screen name of badcook5 so we all kid her but she is really good ...we always tell her we say our prayers after we eat


Wow, if my kids did that to me, they'd need to say their prayers BEFORE they ate!


----------



## gamboolman

This is a interesting and relevant post for ms gamboolgal and I since we are retiring effective 1-Jan-20.

We'll be keeping track of all expenditures the first year vs our estimated budget and it will be interesting to see the totals after the first year.  Especially since we have been living oversea's - for me since 2003 and ms gamboolgal since 2008.  We kept our home in Texas and our son lived in it so we have a good handle on some of the non discretionary expenses.  But the non discretionary expenses are at this point - all estimated.

If I can remember and am not too embarrassed, I will try to remember to post the estimated budget vs actual spends.
Here are our categories - Comments welcomed
gamboolman....


----------



## mathjak107

the only thing  i track is dollars spent to date ..

unless we go over budget i don't really care if it went for X , Y OR Z .

it is only if cuts are required i would bother to track every expenditure


----------



## street

Expenses for a month will run us 3500$.  We live very simple and have a few more things then what we need in life but we can at this time.  Won't owe anyone anything and I work about one month a year for my gas money.  LBYM is key.


----------



## mathjak107

saving ratio is key not just leave below your means .

lbym is a meaningless expression . our means varies ... we don't just pick up and move because one years income is different or expenses vary ..one can certainly live below what their income is but by how much is acceptable ?  

i mean we can live in manhattan for the same monthly budget which is below what we take in , only living in manhattan leaves little slack to cut back if need be or even for saving .

so while lbym sounds great it really is meaningless and not actionable .

what it really boils down to is savings rate . it is the amount saved that provides the slack in rough moments .

the irony is there is loads of information on investing but very very little on spending .

one popular plan is to spend 50% on essential expenses , 15% on retirement savings , 5% for short term savings and 30% for  discretionary spending .

see how that is far more meaningful then some silly catch phrase ?

there are a few spending plans that are actionable but we rarely learn of them .. all you hear is lbym which is a great saying but what i do with it ?


----------



## treeguy64

Lots of goofy stuff, here, as I see it. Hell yes, you should definitely write out a budget, and see exactly how you're spending your money in each category. How else will you know when to cut back on a specific category of spending?

I've written budgets my whole life, and I don't believe I would have ever moved into the very comfortable life I now live without having done so. 

The poster who advises not to worry about what you're spending on specific categories is wayyyyyy off base, in my book, and I'd say you follow his advice at your own peril!

In the end, don't spend more than you are taking in, or have available to you in savings. Know where your money is going, so you know where and when to cut back on spending. 

Live AT your means!


----------



## oldman

My wife and I both inherited large sums from our trusts. My grandfather started the family’s wealth. My wife’s great grandfather started her family’s wealth. And, we both receive above average monthly pensions. Even so, we use a yearly budget and it is divided into “per month” numbers. Actually, we use the program “Quicken.” 

We have also taught our two children to use a budget. Budgeting for our family is not used to restrict the use of cash flow, but does limit and keeps one’s finances in check, or at least for us it does. It’s also used as a good reference point to compare expenses from one year to another. Like, I can look at my electric bill for November, 2018 and it will show me that I spent $126.00 on that account. In 2019, the amount was $89.00. Why the difference? It was partly due to not running the dehumidifier that month and that we were away for a week. 

My wife buys a new car every two years. This item is never included in our budgets. The money to buy her cars comes from a separate account that we have set up that is used for extra-ordinary expenses. In other words, as she puts it, it’s our slush fund.


----------



## Don M.

Budgeting and managing finances wisely is of great importance to Everyone....working, retired, whatever.  If people run up needless debt, that will  eventually come back to bite them.  In today's world, where "defined pensions" are becoming a thing of the past, and Social Security is coming under increasing pressure, a wise person will realize that they too will eventually need to retire, and begin saving/investing at a fairly early age, so they don't become a welfare recipient when they reach their "Golden years".


----------



## street

mathjak107 said:


> lbym is a meaningless expression


Y in Yours is key.  The shoe doesn't fit everyone.  LOL


----------



## street

treeguy64 said:


> Live AT your means!


Perfectly said.


----------



## Packerjohn

Gary O' said:


> Seems a no brainer
> Live within yer means
> 
> Mantra? pssssht
> More like Credo
> 
> We don’t touch $1000/mo
> Don’t even know what I’d do with it
> I may buy gold, if anything
> 
> Been that way for pushing four years now
> Heh, most folks here would think I live in extreme poverty
> 
> Well to do, for me, is having 14 cord of would stacked up for the next two winters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and living each moment in the comfort, joy and satisfaction of hard work...with my hands, gives us


No, I don't think you live in poverty at all.  I think that you are richer than almost anyone in the city.  The trouble is most people don't understand what the quality of life is.  They think about money, money & more money but it's really about time to relax, think, have a drink & shooting the breeze with someone you like.  I know cause I used to own a cottage beside the lake & had many great years there.  Hack, having a 2,500 square home, TVs in every room, 3 car garage, etc. is not quality of life.  It's slavery, North American style.  You think you own things but those things really own you.  On your death bed, you'll be sorry that you learned this too late.


----------



## MarciKS

What would be a good investment to get into? Anyone know?


----------



## Knight

MarciKS said:


> What would be a good investment to get into? Anyone know?


What is your tolerance for risk?  That and your age & expectations.  With that maybe mathjak would give you some options he is probably the finance guru for this thread.


----------



## MarciKS

Would have to be low risk, 54, just some extra spending money. That help??


----------



## Aunt Bea

MarciKS said:


> What would be a good investment to get into? Anyone know?


Do you have a savings/investment plan through your employer?

For me, payroll deduction was the most painless way for me to start saving and investing.  Start out with a small percentage of your pay and every time you get a pay increase bump up the savings portion by a little.

I would start with plain old savings until you build up an emergency cushion.  Then look to see if they offer a no-load balanced mutual fund that handles the investment allocation between stocks and bonds for you.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/balancedfund.asp#:~:text=Balanced funds are mutual funds,both income and capital appreciation.

Good luck!


----------



## MarciKS

Aunt Bea said:


> Do you have a savings/investment plan through your employer?
> 
> For me, payroll deduction was the most painless way for me to start saving and investing.  Start out with a small percentage of your pay and every time you get a pay increase bump up the savings portion by a little.
> 
> I would start with plain old savings until you build up an emergency cushion.  Then look to see if they offer a no-load balanced mutual fund that handles the investment allocation between stocks and bonds for you.
> 
> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/balancedfund.asp#:~:text=Balanced funds are mutual funds,both income and capital appreciation.
> 
> Good luck!


I wouldn't even know who to talk to about getting a mutual fund. This is bad. LOL


----------



## StarSong

MarciKS said:


> I wouldn't even know who to talk to about getting a mutual fund. This is bad. LOL


You might want to start by talking to your HR department at work.  Do they have a 401K plan that they match to any degree?  If so, that'd be your best bet.


----------



## JimBob1952

MarciKS said:


> I wouldn't even know who to talk to about getting a mutual fund. This is bad. LOL



If you think you'll need the money within the next year, keep it in a money market fund.  

If not, open an account at a place like TD Ameritrade (they have nice representatives who can help you) and buy some SPDR shares.  That is an exchange traded fund (ETF) that mirrors the performance of the S&P 500 stock index. 

Do you have a 401k plan?  Do you have any debts?  Do you own your own home?  These are things to invest in first.


----------



## old medic

mathjak107 said:


> this is our third year in retirement and we have been drawing out 6 figures to live


DAMN.... 9999.99 a year..... and I thought we were rich....


----------



## MarciKS

StarSong said:


> You might want to start by talking to your HR department at work.  Do they have a 401K plan that they match to any degree?  If so, that'd be your best bet.


Yes but what do I do with it when I retire? I don't know where to roll it over to that's good.


----------



## old medic

Marci, Im in the same boat i guess.... I have to move my 401K someplace once I retire, even if I go back part time. 
I can roll it into my retirement, but figure its best to keep it as a separate cash fund instead of a few hundred extra a month.
If you learn to live on nothing then a little seems rich.....


----------



## MarciKS

old medic said:


> Marci, Im in the same boat i guess.... I have to move my 401K someplace once I retire, even if I go back part time.
> I can roll it into my retirement, but figure its best to keep it as a separate cash fund instead of a few hundred extra a month.
> If you learn to live on nothing then a little seems rich.....


I live in next to nothing anyway so I'm used to it. LOL


----------



## StarSong

MarciKS said:


> Yes but what do I do with it when I retire? I don't know where to roll it over to that's good.


Ask HR.


----------



## Aunt Bea

MarciKS said:


> Yes but what do I do with it when I retire? I don't know where to roll it over to that's good.


Worry about that when the time comes, everything is likely to be different by the time you retire.

The important thing is to sign up for the 401K *now* and try to at least contribute the amount that your employer is willing to match. Then gradually increase your contribution to the maximum.


----------



## MarciKS

Thanks ladies


----------



## Camper6

KingsX said:


> I've head the term "live below your means" all my life.
> 
> On one level it means spending less money than you take in.
> 
> On another level it means your lifestyle should be below your ability to pay for it.
> 
> At first glance,  those two definitions might seem to say the same thing, but they don't.
> 
> There is a difference between "spending money" and "lifestyle."  Like a friend of mine,  some people who have "champagne taste on a beer budget"... live the  champagne lifestyle when they get paid... then are forced to live without either  champagne or beer once that money runs out... until they get paid again... then the vicious cycle repeats.  Needless to say,  they are not savers. They try to continue their  champagne lifestyle as long as possible  by getting into more and more debt until they become bankrupt.


But then again, there's no guarantee on how long you are going to live so who am I to pass judgement on those who want to have fun and enjoyment while they are fit and able?


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## Camper6

I went to the bank to discuss with my financial planner. She asked me what do I think the most important thing is for a successful retirement? I said "living". She quit her job and retired the next week. I have seen so many of my friends scrimp and save for retirement and never made it. One particularly. On the day of his retirement, out for coffee and killed by a car. Financial security however is a great comfort. I'm heading for 90. I retired late .If I had to do it over I would retire early, even with less money. You can't accumulate time.


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## MarciKS

I'm gonna shoot for 65. We'll see what the pulmonologist says. I may have to go earlier than planned on.


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## Camper6

MarciKS said:


> I'm gonna shoot for 65. We'll see what the pulmonologist says. I may have to go earlier than planned on.


Good Luck.


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