# Forgiveness!



## Keesha (Aug 18, 2019)

The ability to forgive is a character trait I’ve always been most proud of having. Some things I’ve forgiven have been beyond what most could imagine.

I’ve learned that forgiveness is more about setting your own soul free from resentment, bitterness  and animosity towards another. It’s a liberating experience for those who have the ability to do it.

Recently I’ve come to a crossroads in my life where I’m having such a difficult time forgiving. In fact, I’m not sure I can and I’m feeling angry and bitter.

Technically I’m still in the early stages of forgiveness and perhaps need to give myself more time.

How important if forgiveness to you and are you able to forgive completely?

Is there anything you’d walk away from?

Is forgiving too easily and too often perceived as being a ‘push over?’


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## AprilSun (Aug 18, 2019)

I can and do forgive when the person says they're sorry and doesn't do it again. But, I've had issues with someone when we have discussed our problems over and over and this person goes right back to doing the same thing to me as if I haven't said a word. When they do this, they don't come across as they're really sorry. It's hard to keep forgiving someone for the same thing over and over. When I see I've upset someone for something I've said or done, I make it a point not to do it to them again. But, this person doesn't and because of this, I'm staying away from them and I don't regret it a bit.


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## win231 (Aug 18, 2019)

For me, some things are forgivable & some aren't.  
With a couple of friends, I've forgiven some things when I was younger, but when nothing changed after their apologies (which were phony), I wrote them off abruptly.  I never forgive someone who says "You're too sensitive" or "Get over it."  That indicates they refuse to acknowledge the hurt they caused.
I rarely forgive family for any serious betrayal.


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## Lc jones (Aug 18, 2019)

It’s  a mandate of my faith as I’m a Christian to forgive and I work hard at that but I’ll tell you I’m like an elephant I never forget!


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## Keesha (Aug 18, 2019)

AprilSun said:


> I can and do forgive when the person says they're sorry and doesn't do it again.


You make a very valid point. 
Acknowledgement and caring needs to come first before an apology is given. 


Im looking for points made from others hoping that it might change my viewpoint or perception. 

Thanks


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## Keesha (Aug 18, 2019)

win231 said:


> I rarely forgive family for any serious betrayal.


Interesting. May I ask why please?
Not meaning specifically.


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## Sassycakes (Aug 18, 2019)

It depends on the circumstances


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## RadishRose (Aug 18, 2019)

I forgive easily, but there was a time when even tho' I'd forgiven, I preferred to avoid a recurrence.  
(Not family)


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## Patio Life (Aug 18, 2019)

Forgiving and protecting yourself from reoccurring hurt are two different things. 
Forgiveness is grace, to yourself and others.
Protecting yourself is survival at times.

I do believe there are actions for which forgiveness is not possible.


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 18, 2019)




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## Patio Life (Aug 18, 2019)

Keesha said:


> You make a very valid point.
> Acknowledgement and caring needs to come first before an apology is given.
> 
> 
> ...


Your viewpoint may be valid. While it may be painful to accept that the hurt done is unforgivable (for whatever reason) it might be the correct point of view. You are the only one who can validate the truth.


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## Keesha (Aug 18, 2019)

Patio Life said:


> Your viewpoint may be valid. While it may be painful to accept that the hurt done is unforgivable (for whatever reason) it might be the correct point of view. You are the only one who can validate the truth.


So very true. 
Thank you !


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## win231 (Aug 18, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Interesting. May I ask why please?
> Not meaning specifically.


Family is supposed to love you & not hurt you.  I find it harder to forgive family for serious betrayal than non relatives.  Perhaps I'm that way because I've experienced more hurt from family - especially my mother & brother.  My mother never said she was sorry for anything, so there was no need for me to ever consider forgiving her.  My brother tried to apologize, but I wouldn't accept it because he's a thief & scam artist, so I knew his apology was phony.


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## Lc jones (Aug 18, 2019)

Aunt Bea said:


>


That’s right


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## Keesha (Aug 18, 2019)

win231 said:


> Family is supposed to love you & not hurt you.  I find it harder to forgive family for serious betrayal than non relatives.  Perhaps I'm that way because I've experienced more hurt from family - especially my mother & brother.  My mother never said she was sorry for anything, so there was no need for me to ever consider forgiving her.  My brother tried to apologize, but I wouldn't accept it because he's a thief & scam artist, so I knew his apology was phony.


Thank you. 
Unfortunately I can relate.


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## Olivia (Aug 18, 2019)

You have to care about what someone thinks or does to you before the question of  whether or not to forgive even becomes a necessary option. So, first, you yourself has to actually care enough. And then ask yourself why you should. Then you make your choice.


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## Trade (Aug 18, 2019)

Forgiveness is highly over rated. I prefer payback.


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## Gary O' (Aug 18, 2019)

I hardly express forgiveness

My heart easily forgives
It's much harder not to

Some don't readily pick up on this 
and they ask, sometimes in a pleading voice, for forgiveness

When I tell them they had it at the same time whatever it was occurred, they most times don't know how to handle that
But, their relief is written plainly on their faces
My hope is they pay it forward

Man, folks carry too much stuff around

That baggage ain't light
...and not worth recycling

If I happen to feel the need for forgiveness, I most often ask them to just do it in their heart, no verbalization needed




Keesha said:


> Is forgiving too easily and too often perceived as being a ‘push over?’



hey, push me over

The perception down here is 20/20


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## win231 (Aug 18, 2019)

Trade said:


> Forgiveness is highly over rated. I prefer payback.


I think many do, but they don't want to admit it because they don't want to appear "mean."


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## Repondering (Aug 18, 2019)

I've forgiven and let go of some grudges and I've asked for forgiveness and tried to atone for my own wrongdoings to some people.....and then been generously granted their forgiveness and rewarded with their goodwill.

 But one person I still have been unable to make peace with is my father.  He's been dead for almost 18 years now and I still think about him every day.  I was 48 years old when he died and he expressed contempt and dislike for me the whole time, right up to the day before he died.  I was stupid, deficient and immature, so he told me......thousands of times.  Meanwhile he left my mood disordered, bi-polar mother in my care.
Sigmund F. would have readily identified the dynamics of our family.
Only myself and a brother are left of the original five and he walked away years ago, never looking back.  My journey isn't over but I'm still burdened by memories that cling like a shadow dragging behind me.


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## Shalimar (Aug 18, 2019)

Repondering, I  am so sorry you carry the dysfunction of your family. I still carry it myself, although the load is smaller than it was. I wear a covered elastic band on my wrist, when dealing with recurring negative thoughts or feelings, I snap it. Not a cure, but jolts me out of it for now.


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## Gary O' (Aug 18, 2019)

Repondering said:


> My journey isn't over but I'm still burdened by memories that cling like a shadow dragging behind me.


Man, I don't know that one

That's a toughy


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## Shalimar (Aug 18, 2019)

Old memory tapes that replay hurtful scenarios again and again, so painful.


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## Judycat (Aug 18, 2019)

I heard once forgiveness isn't forgetting, it's that you don't want to get even anymore. Apparently there are people who nurse eternal grudges and constantly find ways to make others miserable. I have a sister-in-law like that.


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## toffee (Aug 19, 2019)

I dont forgive easly have to say -- never forgive my father' long as I breath ' bad trait but there u go !


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## Repondering (Aug 19, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> Repondering, I  am so sorry you carry the dysfunction of your family. I still carry it myself, although the load is smaller than it was. I wear a covered elastic band on my wrist, when dealing with recurring negative thoughts or feelings, I snap it. Not a cure, but jolts me out of it for now.



What a clever and practical idea, Shalimar!  Thank you for sharing it!  I had considered a comparable treatment....fill a vase with small stones and remove one whenever one of those recurring thoughts or feelings emerges again, then vigorously throw it off my deck.  Another therapeutic tactic that's occurred to me is methodically etch with wax and muriatic acid a brief message to my father on a thick slab of glass.....taking my time to carefully  create an artifact that will exist basically forever, all the while telling myself that I'm healing over the scabs and scars of his insults as I make an aesthetically appealing object (albeit with some angry words).  And then bury it in the soil of his grave....ritually ending the legacy of his emotional abuse.
Will that fix everything within myself?  Probably not, anymore than snapping an elastic band on my wrist would do so.  But it IS a step in one's therapy.  Perhaps eventually we'll notice that we've passed through the shaded zone and we'll look back  to see where we used to be and then congratulate ourselves, perhaps indulge in a celebratory reward before moving on into the light.
BTW Shalimar, I'm appreciative of your several replies to my posts.


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## Keesha (Aug 19, 2019)

Changed my mind to share


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## JimW (Aug 19, 2019)

I used to feel unfounded guilt whenever a rift would happen with my parents. I was always second guessing myself with them because they raised me to believe I was always at fault. Best thing I ever did for myself was cut all ties with them. The last 18+ years have been the least stressful of my life.

As I have gotten older I've found forgiveness to be overrated. Most people never change and will repeat their mistakes/hurts against you. Very few people are truly sincere when they apologize. I don't usually hold grudges, I simply stop caring.


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## win231 (Aug 19, 2019)

JimW said:


> I too used to feel unfounded guilt whenever a rift would happen with my parents. I was always second guessing myself with them because they raised me to believe I was always at fault. Best thing I ever did for myself was cut all ties with them. The last 18+ years have been the least stressful of my life.
> 
> As I have gotten older I've found forgiveness to be overrated. Most people never change and will repeat their mistakes/hurts against you. Very few people are truly sincere when they apologize. I don't usually hold grudges, I simply stop caring.


So true!


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## Judycat (Aug 19, 2019)

Sometimes for ones own mental health it's better to avoid those who clearly make you miserable. I don't think people change either. It's a nice sentiment though. Ah put it on a greeting card.


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## treeguy64 (Aug 19, 2019)

I don't deal with forgiveness. I simply move on, knowing to not make the mistake of trusting the offending party, ever again. Forgiveness is a nice concept, but I seriously doubt that it really exists, when it comes to feeling 100% as positive about a given individual as you did before he/she dealt you the dirt that necessitated the forgiveness, in the first place. Move on, keep singing.......


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## Keesha (Aug 19, 2019)

I think I forgive and trust again too easily.


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## norman (Aug 19, 2019)

I am sure I have a few (like ex-wife) ✌ and most of all I forgive myself, damn feel like I am at confession and need to do 10 Hail Mary's.


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## jerry old (Aug 19, 2019)

A hard topic, 'way hard.'  
question, when you forgive, are you then wary of that individual.  Yes, you are ordered to forgive 70x70, but still I find myself very
cautious in any involvement of those that have wronged me.


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## jerry old (Aug 19, 2019)

Repondering said:


> I've forgiven and let go of some grudges and I've asked for forgiveness and tried to atone for my own wrongdoings to some people.....and then been generously granted their forgiveness and rewarded with their goodwill.
> 
> But one person I still have been unable to make peace with is my father.  He's been dead for almost 18 years now and I still think about him every day.  I was 48 years old when he died and he expressed contempt and dislike for me the whole time, right up to the day before he died.  I was stupid, deficient and immature, so he told me......thousands of times.  Meanwhile he left my mood disordered, bi-polar mother in my care.
> Sigmund F. would have readily identified the dynamics of our family.
> Only myself and a brother are left of the original five and he walked away years ago, never looking back.  My journey isn't over but I'm still burdened by memories that cling like a shadow dragging behind me.


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## win231 (Aug 19, 2019)

Forgiving someone may be OK in some circumstances - if it makes you feel better.  Trusting them again is foolish.


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## Gary O' (Aug 19, 2019)

win231 said:


> Forgiving someone may be OK in some circumstances - if it makes you feel better. Trusting them again is foolish


That's a big statement
And has a lot of truth to it
Forgiveness has little to do with trust



treeguy64 said:


> I don't deal with forgiveness. I simply move on, knowing to not make the mistake of trusting the offending party, ever again. Forgiveness is a nice concept, but I seriously doubt that it really exists, when it comes to feeling 100% as positive about a given individual as you did before he/she dealt you the dirt that necessitated the forgiveness, in the first place. Move on, keep singing.......



It gets too complex when mixing forgiveness with trusting...and forgetting 

For me, forgiveness is, 'hey, it's OK, we both learned something here'

Forgiveness is not holding, harboring 
It's a learning experience

Forgiveness simply sez, nothing owed
That's all

It's not some saintly thing

It's, in many ways, self preservation
Not belaboring someone's fault   

Trust?

Forget?

That's some sorta blind idiocy

Nothing learned

A patsy for next time

Forgiveness is lightening the load that needn't be there in the first place

As TG sez...simply move on


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## Capt Lightning (Aug 22, 2019)

Forgiving someone without them showing genuine remorse is simply letting them get away with it.  Some things I will never forgive.


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## 911 (Aug 22, 2019)

Kesha———I wasn’t sure whether to post on this question or not. You call it a character trait for you, but for me, it’s a character flaw. I have never been one to forgive easily, if my trust or my friendship was betrayed. Back stabbers and others that try to use me or manipulate me may end up on the short end of that deal.


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## StarSong (Aug 22, 2019)

Forgiveness in the literal meaning: fore give ness?  As in giving it back the way it was before?  Before the hurt was done?  That's tough to do. 

When the person is truly remorseful, owns the action, and won't repeat the behavior, yes. Otherwise I remain wary. Once bitten twice shy.

All that said, it's harder for me to forgive myself than to forgive others.


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2019)

Repondering said:


> What a clever and practical idea, Shalimar!  Thank you for sharing it!  I had considered a comparable treatment....fill a vase with small stones and remove one whenever one of those recurring thoughts or feelings emerges again, then vigorously throw it off my deck.  Another therapeutic tactic that's occurred to me is methodically etch with wax and muriatic acid a brief message to my father on a thick slab of glass.....taking my time to carefully  create an artifact that will exist basically forever, all the while telling myself that I'm healing over the scabs and scars of his insults as I make an aesthetically appealing object (albeit with some angry words).  And then bury it in the soil of his grave....ritually ending the legacy of his emotional abuse.
> Will that fix everything within myself?  Probably not, anymore than snapping an elastic band on my wrist would do so.  But it IS a step in one's therapy.  Perhaps eventually we'll notice that we've passed through the shaded zone and we'll look back  to see where we used to be and then congratulate ourselves, perhaps indulge in a celebratory reward before moving on into the light.
> BTW Shalimar, I'm appreciative of your several replies to my posts.


You are most welcome Repondering. Your ideas have merit. Very powerful totems, indeed. I shall give some thought to creating my own rituals of healing. It is good when those of us who,  as children, were  forcefed other’s emotional poison, dig deep and  take back our power, one painful step at a time. You are not alone. I believe in the chain of hands, as we walk our separate paths together. Compassion heals, love transforms.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Aug 22, 2019)

Forgive, hell! Gonna wear grudges like a badge and be sour and hateful and meaner than a snake! There are way too many folks who do exactly that, but I'm not one of them. I can forgive but not forget. I just walk away and don't look back...unless the instigator sincerely apologizes and earns my trust and respect again. It's happened. Not often.


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## Keesha (Aug 22, 2019)

Yes 911, and in hindsight I don’t know that what I was doing was really forgiveness. 
I think what I was doing was being more in the category of denial. Denial , where I just shoved it down deep enough to try and forget it ever happened. The problem with this is that eventually it comes bubbling up to the surface to be healed. 

If it was true forgiveness, there would be nothing bubbling to the surface as it would have been forgiven. I’m wondering if it was a survival strategy that I just did without quite knowing why because when I look over the average answer and compare it to mine, I appear to be a total pushover and I wonder why I do this. 

It’s like suddenly seeing a part of myself I stuffed away and denied and now having to deal with it. It’s not a part I want to look at for long so most likely I’ll distract myself in a major project and hope I forget about it. 

Some of life can be so painfully raw and come at you so fast that you don’t have time to process it. Sometimes I wish I could UN - know things I now do know , but that’s not reality. 

I’m realizing it wasn’t forgiveness I was practising but something else.


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## Ruthanne (Aug 23, 2019)

How important if forgiveness to you and are you able to forgive completely?

Is there anything you’d walk away from?

Is forgiving too easily and too often perceived as being a ‘push over?’


There were things I thought I'd never forgive but have--took me a long time to do it but that's okay.    I would never trust these people again yet I forgive and it sets me free from the angst I had about them.  Forgiveness has become an important thing to me when years ago it was not because I was so very angry.  

Not sure what you mean by "Is there anything you'd walk away from?"  So I'll skip that.

People who think you are a pushover for forgiving have  a problem and not the forgiver.

Forgiveness has helped me see things differently and opened new doors for me.


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## Keesha (Aug 23, 2019)

Ruthanne said:


> There were things I thought I'd never forgive but have--took me a long time to do it but that's okay.    I would never trust these people again
> 
> Not sure what you mean by "Is there anything you'd walk away from?"  So I'll skip that one.



That’s what most people said. “I’ll forgive but I won’t ever trust them again.” That’s where I went wrong time and time again. I’d let them betray me over and over again which was perceived as being ok. 

Not trusting them again is like walking away. 
If you can’t trust them then where do they fit into your life?

And there are some situations where we don’t have the opportunity  to walk away even if we wanted to so we learn ways of adapting.


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2019)

Forgive, yes, enable, no. When I was in a toxic relationship( with family) where the same patterns replayed endlessly, I finally folded my tent and walked  away. Ultimately, there was nothing else to do but exit quietly,  sad when those who are supposed to value us most, do not.


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## Keesha (Aug 23, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> Forgive, yes, enable, no. When I was in a toxic relationship( with family) where the same patterns replayed endlessly, I finally folded my tent and walked  away. Ultimately, there was nothing else to do but exit quietly,  sad when those who are supposed to value us most, do not.


Yes. I’ve been an enabler. A foolish one at that. 
I’m disappointed in myself more than anyone. 
That’s the ‘walking away’ I was referring to.


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## Keesha (Aug 23, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> Forgive, yes, enable, no. When I was in a toxic relationship( with family) where the same patterns replayed endlessly, I finally folded my tent and walked  away. Ultimately, there was nothing else to do but exit quietly,  sad when those who are supposed to value us most, do not.


And more importantly WHY do I enable?
What’s the pay off?
Do I expect them to change?
Is it another form of denial or not addressing the situation properly? 
A lack of self worth? 
Hoping for different?

I know I should know but I’m not sure I do.


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## Gary O' (Aug 23, 2019)

Looks like a large percentage of folks tend to couple forgiveness with forgetfulness...and trust
Those are not related
Maybe the old saying 'forgive and forget' has some influence

Heh, ever try real hard to forget something?
Can't
Doesn't happen
...and you shouldn't

Trust? After a wrong?
Are....you....freaking....kidding?

No, forgiveness is easy
And it's automatic with me

I got other things to carry
...and my load is light


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## JimW (Aug 23, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> Forgive, yes, enable, no. When I was in a toxic relationship( with family) where the same patterns replayed endlessly, I finally folded my tent and walked  away. Ultimately, there was nothing else to do but exit quietly,  sad when those who are supposed to value us most, do not.



That's my story in a nutshell as well Shalimar. Walking away was my only option for my sanity.


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## Ruthanne (Aug 23, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Not trusting them again is like walking away.
> If you can’t trust them then where do they fit into your life?
> 
> And there are some situations where we don’t have the opportunity to walk away even if we wanted to so we learn ways of adapting.


I guess I have walked away and it was long ago that I walked away but hadn't forgiven at that time.  Now I have forgiven and feel free of them.  I have always been able to walk away thankfully.


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## StarSong (Aug 23, 2019)

JimW said:


> That's my story in a nutshell as well, Shalimar. Walking away was my only option for my sanity.


This is how I have released myself from the endless anguish of past unforgivable acts by family members:

Calmly, quietly, with closed eyes, I summon the spirit - the very soul - that I am having difficulty with. I acknowledge that there is a bond between us no matter what the hurts or misunderstandings on either side. There will always be love there.

Then I acknowledge that God, the Universe, Karma, or circumstance, put us together for a reason. Whatever it was we were supposed to do, or should have done, for and with each other went horribly off the rails.

Too much toxicity having extinguished any chance for this relationship to become healthy, I release this person's soul from further obligation to mine, and release mine from his/hers. I tell the soul I wish it no harm and hope that the rest of its journey goes well, but I cannot and will not allow its presence in my life. I also acknowledge my belief that when this life is over for us both, a greater power will broker a full healing.

With some people I've had to do this several times over a period of time before I am fully released, but each time brings me a greater sense of peace.


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## AprilSun (Aug 23, 2019)

Capt Lightning said:


> Forgiving someone without them showing genuine remorse is simply letting them get away with it.  Some things I will never forgive.



I have family members that think I should just keep taking it over and over and forgive each time a certain family member does the same thing to me. I say, no way will I do that. If they can't show they are truly sorry by not doing it again, then I will just stay away from them. But no, these family members think I am in the wrong because I refuse to take it. I say, they should mind their own business!


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## Rosemarie (Aug 23, 2019)

You can forgive something, but that doesn't mean you forget.


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2019)

JimW said:


> That's my story in a nutshell as well Shalimar. Walking away was my only option for my sanity.


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2019)

StarSong said:


> This is how I have released myself from the endless anguish of past unforgivable acts by family members:
> 
> Calmly, quietly, with closed eyes, I summon the spirit - the very soul - that I am having difficulty with. I acknowledge that there is a bond between us no matter what the hurts or misunderstandings on either side. There will always be love there.
> 
> ...


Poignant and powerful, touched me deeply.


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## 911 (Aug 23, 2019)

I get everything that was written here. However, doesn’t it really come down to what we are forgiving? For example; if someone steps on my foot and says, “Excuse me” or “Sorry” this is not hard to forgive that person. But, if someone kills your parent, spouse, sibling, etc., would you be able to forgive? 

The common answer or the answer that I would expect to read would be,  “Yes, but it wouldn’t happen right away.” I could never say that. It’s highly unlikely that I ever would and no. I would not carry that emotion or guilt around with me. I have the ability to simply move on with not burdening myself with any regret of not forgiving.

I had an aunt that had a heart attack and needed a heart bypass (triple). He messed up and my aunt had a stroke during the procedure and a few days later, she died. That was back in 1994. To this day, I have never forgiven him. This aunt was my Mom’s sister and treated me like her son. She was not only my aunt, but a very good and close friend. 

I know forgiveness is not given for the sake of the person that caused the issue to begin with, but for the person that suffered the tragedy or whatever other event that may have caused the need to forgive. I never forgave him and I am doing fine. To me and in my mind, he just does not exist. I may as well also tell you that I told him the same thing. He apologized. Really? How do you apologize for taking someone’s life? The Coroner told us that a competent doctor should never make the mistake that he did. Please do not write me and tell me how this was a mistake and gee, he’s only human and we all make mistakes. I really do not care to discuss it. That train left the station long ago. 

Yes, I’ve made mistakes, but none of them cost anyone their life.


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## jerry old (Aug 23, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> That's a big statement
> And has a lot of truth to it
> Forgiveness has little to do with trust
> 
> ...


Indeed, you nailed with two words:        
'self preservation.'


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2019)

Some horrors are beyond my capacity to forgive. For example, the cruelty meted out to certain children who I was unable to protect.  I have seen monsters, Evil in human form, chilling smiles and all.  In a different reality, I would have taken their heads and displayed them in my pike garden. In this reality, I offer love and hope to as many broken souls as possible, particularly children. This I do in honour of the dead. I am all that remains of their story.


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## 911 (Aug 23, 2019)

Evil? You want to see evil at work? How about a grown adult male taking 10 little girls hostage, shoots 8 of them and kills 5 of the 8; 2 of them were sisters. And, I got there just a few minutes too late to prevent it from happening or I would have rushed the door and sacrificed myself to save those little girls. I lived with that guilt for a long time, until I was able to convince myself that circumstances prevented the other Trooper and myself from getting there in time. I will never forget that day or those little girls.


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## Gary O' (Aug 23, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> Some horrors are beyond my capacity to forgive. For example, the cruelty meted out to certain children who I was unable to protect. I have seen monsters, Evil in human form, chilling smiles and all.





911 said:


> Evil? You want to see evil at work? How about a grown adult male taking 10 little girls hostage, shoots 8 of them and kills 5 of the 8



Those are atrocities

Atrocities are a category of their own

Beyond understanding

Beyond compassion

Beyond forgiveness

I consider them for God to handle


Any of that happens to my friends or family…..I become GOD




It's happened
When we meet up, they tend to become sorry they were born
No regrets


Grudge?.....pffft...I give no time to form a grudge in those cases


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2019)

I still suffer from survivor’s guilt. Out of fifteen child sex slaves, only I lived to majority.


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## Ruthanne (Aug 24, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> I still suffer from survivor’s guilt. Out of fifteen child sex slaves, only I lived to majority.


I have survivors guilt too but not going to go into why right now.


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## Floridatennisplayer (Aug 24, 2019)

Ok, ok..........I forgive you guys!  Geeze.


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## Floridatennisplayer (Aug 24, 2019)

FYI don’t reverse image my pic.............I think it says I’m a popular cereal killer....you know....like CoCo Puffs


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## Keesha (Aug 24, 2019)

Have you been into the sauce again Florida Tennis Player?


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## Warrigal (Aug 24, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> I still suffer from survivor’s guilt. Out of fifteen child sex slaves, only I lived to majority.


I am so glad you did. You and ornament and a blessing to the world. You need feel not guilt at all.


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## AnnieA (Aug 24, 2019)

My benchmark for forgiveness is being able to pray for God's blessings for a person.  Have to admit that sometimes I'm hoping God will go the tough love route with the blessings!   If I can't do that, then I pray, "Help me be able to pray because I really, really don't want to."   Have a couple of people that I can't get beyond, "God, please save 'em or kill 'em and do it quickly." No smilie to offset that one ...I'm completely serious.  Both those cases involve the emotional abuse of children.


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## Linda (Aug 28, 2019)

I don't think about the word forgiveness, I just let things go and forget about them.


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## OneEyedDiva (Aug 28, 2019)

About 7 years ago, then again 7 months ago, I found myself in the position of feeling very betrayed (three different people but each close to me). I've been wrestling with my feelings about these events and for the excellent reason you state in your second paragraph plus our belief as Muslims that in order to be forgiven (on Judgement Day), one must first forgive....I'm trying to bring myself to the point where I can totally forgive them.  I've sort of forgiven one (a relative) but I'm "feeding him with a long handled spoon".  I don't think we can ever be as close as we once were unless (or until) I tell him how I really feel about his actions and not just to me but to others in the family.  

I wish I could forgive like my husband.  He instantly (it seems) forgave so many who did him wrong and this includes his family members. I often marveled at how he could do that.  For our own peace of mine (remember that second paragraph sentence), I hope you can forgive again.


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## Sassycakes (Sep 2, 2019)

My feelings on this is forgiving is easy but forgetting isn't possible.


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## Sassycakes (Sep 3, 2019)

*After I wrote my reply to this thread I was looking at old pictures. I saw one of my daughter on her wedding. It brought back a memory of something her Mother-in-law said to me on the day of my daughters wedding. She told me she made her daughter stop at my house before the wedding to make sure my daughter looked decent and not gawdy in her wedding gown. My daughter and her son had dated for 5 yrs before marrying and my daughter never looked gawdy. The MIL didn't like that we were Italian and that's how she depicted Italians. It's been over 14yrs now and I still remeber it like it was yesterday. I try to be nice to her,but I will never forgive her for insulting my daughter.
*


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## Keesha (Sep 3, 2019)

She looks beautiful Sassycakes.


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## Ronni (Sep 3, 2019)

I haven’t read many of the responses So it’s possible I’m being redundant.

What I have read leads me to believe I have a very different take on forgiveness.

Forgiveness is for ME, not the receiver. It prevents me from turning toxic and negative, just sort of choking on the buildup of resentment and upset and anger and maybe even thoughts of revenge.

It doesn’t have anything to do with reconciliation,  or a resurgence of trust, or even a newfound ability to be in the same room as the person or have a conversation with them. It simply grants me peace,  a cessation of the anger, a resurgence of well being.

It’s just...letting go. It allows me to let go of the negative feelings, the resentment and the hurt. Is it easy?  Hell no!!! Not for me anyway. But the more I’m able to forgive the more my empathy and feelings of compassion increase. It’s certainly a process, and has nothing to do with getting the person who offended me to change or apologize or do better.

It’s for me. To help ME do better.


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## Sassycakes (Nov 27, 2019)

*It's funny I saw this topic today. Just a few hours ago I got a phone call from my brother-in-laws sister. For many years we would spend the weekend at her house. Because of her family situation she had no contact with her parents or brothers and sister. The only brother that spoke to her was my Brother-in-law. They weren't raised together because my BIL was raised in a boys home. His parents sent him there at 11yrs old because of an accident he was in and after being in the hospital for months neither parent wanted him. He married my sister when he was 19 yrs old. My sister tried to get the family together but it didn't work. Only the one sister came around because she wanted her son to have family. So he treated me like an Aunt and I loved him too. Well about 10 years later my BIL passed away. She acted at the funeral like it was a party. She made fun of me and my husband because we were heartbroken over my BIL's death. She made me upset but I didn't say anything. A few months later my sisters son had an epidural stroke that left him paralyzed  from the chest down. She took it as a another joke and made fun of him. That was when I had enough of her and so did my sister. It's almost 15yrs now that we have never spoken to her. She called today because she said she heard my nephew was in hospice. She said she thought it would be nice if we had dinner together to celebrate her son's engagement. That was when I lost it. I expressed my feelings about her and hung up the phone. I am so happy I did ! *


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## GeorgiaXplant (Nov 27, 2019)

I understand. And I don't blame you one bit. Sometimes the only way we can let something hurtful go is to have the last word.


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## StarSong (Nov 28, 2019)

@Sassycakes I'm so sorry that your family was at the receiving end of this woman's inability to feel empathy and compassion, or the wisdom to feign appropriate behavior even if it wasn't heartfelt.  People can be deeply disappointing sometimes.  

Bringing her back into your life would surely result in her setting you up for the next punch in the gut.


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## Keesha (Nov 28, 2019)

StarSong said:


> @Sassycakes I'm so sorry that your family was at the receiving end of this woman's inability to feel empathy and compassion, or the wisdom to feign appropriate behavior even if it wasn't heartfelt.  People can be deeply disappointing sometimes.
> 
> Bringing her back into your life would surely result in her setting you up for the next punch in the gut.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 4, 2019)

Sassycakes said:


> My feelings on this is forgiving is easy but forgetting isn't possible.


My brother used to say that you haven't really forgiven if you don't forget.  But Sassycakes...I'm with *you*!  I think not forgetting is a way to protect ourselves from having the same kind of deed done to us again whether by the same person or someone else.


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## hellomimi (May 12, 2020)

When I get flashbacks of hurtful words and actions done by someone who should've been my protector, the pain still lingers.That is when I tell the inner child in me that I forgive for my own sake and will never again subject myself to such cruelty. Even if I have forgiven, I refuse to see the person again knowing that our encounters can be explosive.


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## hellomimi (May 12, 2020)

Keesha said:


> You make a very valid point.
> Acknowledgement and caring needs to come first before an apology is given.


In a perfect world, that is ideal but sad to say, it's unlikely to happen in most cases.

It takes a lot of courage and humility to apologize and if done sincerely, the person who was wronged find it easier to forgive and accept the apology.


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## MarciKS (May 12, 2020)

@Keesha I get accused of being a pushover. As a general rule I'll forgive but, I won't forget. However, if the person continues to keep doing the same thing I will often distance myself from them just to keep the bad feelings at bay. 

I've been struggling with forgiveness here lately as well. I've been Christian for a while now. It's not easy to love others enough to forgive them in the middle of a situation that makes you wanna smack someone in the head. I find it's easier to get some space between myself and that person for a while till things chill. Meanwhile just think the situation over and maybe think about how to handle it if it happens again. Then just let it go.

Generally anything we say or do isn't going to fix the situation at hand or make it any better so let it cool off and go do your thing.


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## Lewkat (May 12, 2020)

Some things were so egregious I could not forgive them.  Not that it was requested either.  Other stuff I can easily forgive and in most cases forget.


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## Keesha (May 13, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> @Keesha I get accused of being a pushover.
> 
> I find it's easier to get some space between myself and that person for a while till things chill. Meanwhile just think the situation over and maybe think about how to handle it if it happens again. Then just let it go.


I did put space between us; 8 years in a ‘no contact’ relationship however these people ‘really’ needed my help when someone they left  ALL their trust in, walked away. Now that all the hard work is done, they magically reappeared.

I’m ‘still’ working on the .... ‘just let it go,’ part.


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## Keesha (May 13, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> In a perfect world, that is ideal but sad to say, it's unlikely to happen in most cases.
> 
> It takes a lot of courage and humility to apologize and if done sincerely, the person who was wronged find it easier to forgive and accept the apology.


Yes! In a ‘perfect world’ ........which none of us have. It takes a lot of courage and humility to apologize? True but before any of this can even happen, it takes acknowledgement of any ‘wrong doing’ and with most narcissists an impossibility.


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## MarciKS (May 13, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I did put space between us; 8 years in a ‘no contact’ relationship however these people ‘really’ needed my help when someone they left  ALL their trust in, walked away. Now that all the hard work is done, they magically reappeared.
> 
> I’m ‘still’ working on the .... ‘just let it go,’ part.



My "friends" hang around when they are in need of something and then *poof* they're gone. I have forgiven them but, I don't intend to keep tolerating the same behavior over and over. If they only need you or want you when it's convenient for them, I think you have the right to walk away.


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## Em in Ohio (May 13, 2020)

win231 said:


> ...  My mother never said she was sorry for anything, so there was no need for me to ever consider forgiving her. ...


I have wondered whether there are some people who simply _cannot_ apologize or say a simple, but sincere, "I'm sorry."  My daughter comes to mind.  She will just act as if nothing negative has come between us - moving on as if the issue never happened and all is well.


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## Ronni (May 13, 2020)

Em in Ohio said:


> I have wondered whether there are some people who simply _cannot_ apologize or say a simple, but sincere, "I'm sorry."  My daughter comes to mind.  She will just act as if nothing negative has come between us - moving on as if the issue never happened and all is well.


This is my ex-husband.  His apology was always followed by "but."  I'm so sorry I yelled, BUT "I wouldn't have if you hadn't been so stupid/you need to listen better/you weren't paying attention/you were wrong" etc.


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## Em in Ohio (May 13, 2020)

Ronni said:


> This is my ex-husband.  His apology was always followed by "but."  I'm so sorry I yelled, BUT "I wouldn't have if you hadn't been so stupid/you need to listen better/you weren't paying attention/you were wrong" etc.


At least, you got an apology of sorts.  I know, that means nothing when followed by an attack.  /-;


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## JaniceM (May 13, 2020)

Ronni said:


> This is my ex-husband.  His apology was always followed by "but."  I'm so sorry I yelled, BUT "I wouldn't have if you hadn't been so stupid/you need to listen better/you weren't paying attention/you were wrong" etc.



That's almost word-for-word from a book I read yesterday-  _Gaslighting:  The Narcissist's Favorite Tool of Manipulation.  _
If you can tolerate the author's horrible writing, etc., it would be worth reading.


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## Ronni (May 13, 2020)

Em in Ohio said:


> At least, you got an apology of sorts.  I know, that means nothing when followed by an attack.  /-;


 Yeah, really not. It's an F$%# you.  There's no sincerity, no remorse, no actual accountability or responsibility or even an acknowledgement that he did something wrong.  *I* did the wrong thing, so his response was completely justified.


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## JaniceM (May 13, 2020)

Em in Ohio said:


> At least, you got an apology of sorts.  I know, that means nothing when followed by an attack.  /-;


It's not an apology at all-  it's a way of a wrongdoer turning his behavior onto the person he wronged.


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## Ronni (May 13, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> That's almost word-for-word from a book I read yesterday-  _Gaslighting:  The Narcissist's Favorite Tool of Manipulation.  _
> If you can tolerate the author's horrible writing, etc., it would be worth reading.


I have a vague idea I've already read it, along with countless other books and/or articles on narcissists, abuse, personality types etc.  I educated myself thoroughly after I left my 30+ year marriage to my abusive, controlling, narcissistic husband.  I wasn't ever going to repeat THAT particular mistake!


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## Keesha (May 13, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> My "friends" hang around when they are in need of something and then *poof* they're gone. I have forgiven them but, I don't intend to keep tolerating the same behavior over and over. If they only need you or want you when it's convenient for them, I think you have the right to walk away.


Yes I agree but family is a bit different. Its harder to walk away, especially when you ‘know’ they really ‘need’ you.


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## Em in Ohio (May 13, 2020)

Ronni said:


> I have a vague idea I've already read it, along with countless other books and/or articles on narcissists, abuse, personality types etc.  I educated myself thoroughly after I left my 30+ year marriage to my abusive, controlling, narcissistic husband.  I wasn't ever going to repeat THAT particular mistake!


Back to the topic of forgiveness - I don't forgive.  I move on.  But, I hold onto the bitterness.  Perhaps my 'moving on' is why my daughter can't apologize - I ignored my own "abusive, controlling, narcissistic husband" and perhaps it was my modelling of behavior that made my daughter incapable of apologizing.  It's something for me to consider.  /-;


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## Keesha (May 13, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> That's almost word-for-word from a book I read yesterday-  _Gaslighting:  The Narcissist's Favorite Tool of Manipulation.  _
> If you can tolerate the author's horrible writing, etc., it would be worth reading.


Read a library’s worth about narcissists. You really ‘have’ to when you have a close relationship with one or two or three. lol


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## hellomimi (May 13, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Yes! In a ‘perfect world’ ........which none of us have. It takes a lot of courage and humility to apologize? True but before any of this can even happen, it takes acknowledgement of any ‘wrong doing’ and with most narcissists an impossibility.


Sad to say that's the truth. I admit I have a hard time forgiving and takes a lot of prayers to ask for courage when the offender does not even show remorse.

I want to forgive for my well-being, not theirs and that's what I always tell myself. Sometimes, it hurts more if they apologize followed by BUT...which is really passing the blame to me as if I deserve the cruelty. Oh well, I prefer to just let it go; I just stay away from them.


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## Pinky (May 13, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> Sad to say that's the truth. I admit I have a hard time forgiving and takes a lot of prayers to ask for courage when the offender does not even show remorse.
> 
> I want to forgive for my well-being, not theirs and that's what I always tell myself. Sometimes, it hurts more if they apologize followed by BUT...which is really passing the blame to me as if I deserve the cruelty. Oh well, I prefer to just let it go; I just stay away from them.


For one's own mental health, it's important to forgive and move on .. simply because the perpetrator of your mental anguish is _never_ going to take responsibility for the pain they've caused. I learned that the hard way.


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## Gaer (May 13, 2020)

You know what I do Keesha?  I not only forgive, but I send mental BLESSINGS to them, for who needs blessings more than those who are so ignorant?  When I did this, ALL the bad memories I'd been carrying, inturupting my sleep, flashing through my days;  ALL  disappeared!  Never to return!  Let it go and send loving prayers to them and it disrupts my life no more.


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## win231 (May 13, 2020)

Em in Ohio said:


> I have wondered whether there are some people who simply _cannot_ apologize or say a simple, but sincere, "I'm sorry."  My daughter comes to mind.  She will just act as if nothing negative has come between us - moving on as if the issue never happened and all is well.


Saying "I'm sorry" and meaning it requires honesty & good character - qualities that someone who hurt you wouldn't have in the first place.


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## JaniceM (May 13, 2020)

win231 said:


> Saying "I'm sorry" and meaning it requires honesty & good character - qualities that someone who hurt you wouldn't have in the first place.


I've heard the way to determine if a person truly is sorry is whether or not they stop doing what they're doing.  
Come to think of it, that's what one of my Uncles taught his kids-  never say 'sorry,' show it by not doing it again.


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## hellomimi (May 13, 2020)

Pinky said:


> For one's own mental health, it's important to forgive and move on .. simply because the perpetrator of your mental anguish is _never_ going to take responsibility for the pain they've caused. I learned that the hard way.


Been there and just when I thought I  would finally get that apology...I was gas lighted again. I used to beat myself for falling to such trap. But now, I enforce my boundaries, listen to myself and be at peace wiith my decision.


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## Gaer (May 13, 2020)

May i expound onmy comment earlier, as it will be dismissed as "Yeah,That's nice but,not gonna happen!"
I am sincere in the benefits of forgiveness. 
 Forgive everyone in your past through strong thought, who has ever harmed you.  
Why, if you can choose your moods, would you choose to feel bad?
You will realize understanding.
let all feelings of animosity lift, and the NEW you, free from hate, will emerge.
This is the soul, the true self, before any hurt and pain.
You are to go beyond the letting go of ill will.
BLESS this person so his soul FEELS the blessing.
When this is done, You will be amazed at the change in your life; the joy that will come to you!


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## Keesha (May 13, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> Sad to say that's the truth. I admit I have a hard time forgiving and takes a lot of prayers to ask for courage when the offender does not even show remorse.
> 
> I want to forgive for my well-being, not theirs and that's what I always tell myself. Sometimes, it hurts more if they apologize followed by BUT...which is really passing the blame to me as if I deserve the cruelty. Oh well, I prefer to just let it go; I just stay away from them.


Again, staying away from people who have harmed you isn’t that difficult. When it’s your own family and   they’ve played you most of your life because you ARE the forgiving soul then nothing really changes. You get pulled back in just to get used once again and it gets old.


Gaer said:


> You know what I do Keesha?  I not only forgive, but I send mental BLESSINGS to them, for who needs blessings more than those who are so ignorant?  When I did this, ALL the bad memories I'd been carrying, inturupting my sleep, flashing through my days;  ALL  disappeared!  Never to return!  Let it go and send loving prayers to them and it disrupts my life no more.


You’re preaching to the choir here. This IS what I’ve been doing Gaer. What this translates to is that everything is ok and the behaviour never changes. If you forgive and send blessings to all those who hurt you, it sends out  a message  that you are perfectly ok with being mistreated and used. If you are always the generous one who is constantly offering your time, hard work and things of monetary value, then  narcissistic  ‘ takers’ basically figure that you don’t mind being taken advantage of and you end up teaching them that it’s ok. You end up setting yourself up to be a used and when people discover then can use you with no consequences, it never ends. With friends you can simply let them go. When it’s family it gets complicated and hurtful.

If I were to share with you the things I’ve forgiven, you’d be shocked. No exaggeration here. I completely GET what you’re saying though. After 60 years I think I’ve discovered that some things can’t be completely forgiven and some of you answered why this is. If the people who have seriously abused you  don't even acknowledge the abuse even happened but act like you are making up stories for whatever reason, then forgiving them can be disappointing to yourself.

If anything, I’ve forgiven far too much and feel disappointed in myself for doing so. Many of you will claim that if I feel this way then it wasn’t forgiveness to begin with but it truly was. These people had a perfectly clean slate with me. Unfortunately it put me in a position of being disrespected and taken for granted and it wasn’t something I acknowledged until recently. I’ve had to backtrack to see where I went wrong.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that I’m having a really hard time forgiving and wondered if perhaps it’s due to not having time lapse by. I still believe this is the reason and know that within time I WILL forgive and I’ll do it for ME. Hanging on to grievances is painful and I look forward to be free of it all. Unfortunately it’s  just not happening right now or anytime soon.

Yes I’m bitter and have a chip on my shoulder but I’m ok with that. It’s a good reminder.


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## Gaer (May 13, 2020)

keesha, As a person who has been through intensive abuse too, to release the hate really frees you!  They  (he) ais/are already punished because they are the same.  They have to still BE the same person.  That's a pretty bad punishment.
Noone but you knows the pain and the triumphs you've encountered.  No one is going to thank you for being kind and thoughtful.  But God knows.  The angels know and YOU know!  Done preaching.


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## peppermint (May 13, 2020)

I only had 1 person in my life for many years....That at the end, I had to get her out of my life.....
I couldn't stand having her calling me on the phone and crying....She had a son that went to jail....and a girl that didn't even talk to her...
They were adopted...My friend couldn't conceive...Her husband cheated on her for many many years....Which I didn't know about....
To me she looked like a lovely family....Having a beautiful home and she never told me her husband was cheating...

We left our home to another State....She called me to see that they couldn't come to see us....She was getting a divorce...
When we came back a couple of years later, my daughter was getting married....We invited her to the wedding....The day before the wedding
she called me that she couldn't come...Of course we didn't get the money back...But I didn't care.....She didn't at the time tell me her
son was in jail....So anyway....we all have stories....(I never heard from her again)...I did try her phone, but never answered....I didn't
know where she was living....And I still don't know what happened to her.....It's many many years....We were the same age...But she
was always sick...So I just say, God Bless, if something happened to her....Know one ever called me or where her kids live....

I think about it sometimes ,like now....


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## Keesha (May 13, 2020)

Gaer said:


> keesha, As a person who has been through intensive abuse too, to release the hate really frees you!  They  (he) ais/are already punished because they are the same.  They have to still BE the same person.  That's a pretty bad punishment.
> Noone but you knows the pain and the triumphs you've encountered.  No one is going to thank you for being kind and thoughtful.  But God knows.  The angels know and YOU know!  Done preaching.


You are absolutely RIGHT. I should be satisfied with the knowledge that I KNOW what I’ve done. THAT in itself ‘should’ certainly be good enough but for some reason it isn’t. What does bring me comfort and peace is knowing when they die ALL truth will be revealed and then and only then will they understand how much I loved them and did for them. Yes it’s bittersweet because that means that their bodies will no longer be alive but the fact that they are moving on to a better place where they will all be reunited with ALL their loved ones including me, is  soul soothing.

No one is going to thank me for being kind and thoughtful.  Yeah. No $hit. Sorry but I found that exceptionally funny. I certainly take myself too seriously at times.


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## MarciKS (May 13, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> My brother used to say that you haven't really forgiven if you don't forget.  But Sassycakes...I'm with *you*!  I think not forgetting is a way to protect ourselves from having the same kind of deed done to us again whether by the same person or someone else.



For me the not forgetting doesn't involve still hanging on or carrying a grudge. It is simply a reminder to myself not to let it happen again. Does that make sense?


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## Butterfly (May 13, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> @Keesha I get accused of being a pushover. As a general rule I'll forgive but, I won't forget. However, if the person continues to keep doing the same thing I will often distance myself from them just to keep the bad feelings at bay.
> 
> I've been struggling with forgiveness here lately as well. I've been Christian for a while now. It's not easy to love others enough to forgive them in the middle of a situation that makes you wanna smack someone in the head. I find it's easier to get some space between myself and that person for a while till things chill. Meanwhile just think the situation over and maybe think about how to handle it if it happens again. Then just let it go.
> 
> Generally anything we say or do isn't going to fix the situation at hand or make it any better so let it cool off and go do your thing.



My pastor once told me that forgiving someone does not mean that you must trust them again or give them the opportunity to hurt you again.


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## JaniceM (May 14, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> My pastor once told me that forgiving someone does not mean that you must trust them again or give them the opportunity to hurt you again.


But if you're dealing with a disordered personality-  an N. for example-  it can be an 'invitation' to harm you again _because _individuals with disordered personalities don't realize their harmful behavior is actually wrong.  
The first N. I ever dealt with seemed to have a weird 'glitch' in not being able to recognize cause -> effect..  but others I encountered later in life were different-  instead of not being able to connect their actions to the consequences, it was more like a sense of entitlement _to _harm others, characteristics common in sociopaths and psychopaths.  

When I first started thinking about the subject (forgiveness) around 25 years ago, what came to mind was what Jesus said on the cross-  he asked God to forgive them 'for they know not what they do.'  However, when someone truly 'knows not what they do,' they don't go to great extremes to hide it from others.


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## Keesha (May 14, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> However, when someone truly 'knows not what they do,' they don't go to great extremes to hide it from others.


This is something I try to keep in mind also.
People with a personality disorder have acted a certain way for so long that it has become part of who they are and I have to agree here that when you bring some of their behaviours up to them, they genuinely might be completely baffled by it and even think that whatever is going on is your problem.

If they’ve been the way they are for their entire life and nobody has called them on it and suddenly you do, they truly don’t understand nor even care. In fact, they wouldn’t even know what narcissism even is so certainly wouldn’t recognize it in themselves.

This is something I have tried to keep in mind.
For instance people who were raised during the war or days of the depression,  may carry a mentality of ‘waste not, want not,’ to the point of being hoarders and/or being incredibly frugal. It becomes a habit to always make sure they are getting the best deal in any situation regardless of whether you are a friend or family member. Pointing this type of behaviour out to them will only be considered rude on your part and if they are close family members, rest assured, you WILL be taken advantage of since it IS a ‘built in’ part of their personality.

It might take a lifetime for you to recognize and figure this out, leaving those that are close to them frustrated and scornful but in the end, they are just being themselves and don’t consider their behaviour harmful.

Your last statement certainly rings true in my life experience and is something to keep in mind.
It’s almost impossible getting an apology from these types of people since they will never acknowledge any wrong doings on their part but could make a long list of yours.


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## Pinky (May 14, 2020)

Keesha said:


> This is something I try to keep in mind also.
> People with a personality disorder have acted a certain way for so long that it has become part of who they are and I have to agree here that when you bring some of their behaviours up to them, they genuinely might be completely baffled by it and even think that whatever is going on is your problem.
> 
> If they’ve been the way they are for their entire life and nobody has called them on it and suddenly you do, they truly don’t understand nor even care. In fact, they wouldn’t even know what narcissism even is so certainly wouldn’t recognize it in themselves.
> ...


You are spot-on, Keesha. My ex was exactly as you've described. In his mind, he was not wrong .. everybody else was. It took me longer than it should have to realize this part of his personality.


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## Mr. Ed (May 22, 2020)

As age advanced I found myself reaching out to people I thought I should makes amends. Call it a little housekeeping


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## Lakeland living (May 22, 2020)

Unforgivable s,  yes have had a few, only one persisted for about 10 years. Till he tried again. No I won't say anything on that part.
However when I received a message  from someone else I let his ex know. He is now in for 4 to 5 years. 
His ex is smiling, I am grinning and another person is delirious as he stands to get some money back.
Ok, so payback is fn great!!


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## peppermint (May 22, 2020)

peppermint said:


> I only had 1 person in my life for many years....That at the end, I had to get her out of my life.....
> I couldn't stand having her calling me on the phone and crying....She had a son that went to jail....and a girl that didn't even talk to her...
> They were adopted...My friend couldn't conceive...Her husband cheated on her for many many years....Which I didn't know about....
> To me she looked like a lovely family....Having a beautiful home and she never told me her husband was cheating...
> ...


To reply again..I 'm older now, and I don't care anymore what happened many years ago....I have my happy family and don't need people
with there cries....I had enough of them....


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## fuzzybuddy (May 25, 2020)

I'm not a forgiving kind of guy. And , of course, it depends on what you have done to me. If it was something significant,  I just don't ever want anything to do with you. I'm quite happy believing you fell off the planet.


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## Liberty (May 25, 2020)

Think as a child, a two pronged learning helped me to avoid the necessity to forgive...why?  If you get in the position where you "need to forgive" you have produced a "debt/debtor"cycle of energy.  My dad taught me "don't try to change anyone - its like trying to teach a pig to sing, you'll just waste your time and annoy the pig".  My mother taught me "there are two kinds of people in the world...the givers and the takers." We are all on many different free will learning paths.

Learning to observe and to have "loving indifference" keeps you out of much of "harm's way" with respect to debtorship/ownership responsibilities.


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## Gaer (May 25, 2020)

Since the title of this is forgiveness, I found this little quote among my stuff.
This is easy for me to say, because I have no husband, but for others,

"Once a woman has forgiven her man,
she must not reheat his sins for breakfast."


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## hellomimi (May 25, 2020)

Gaer said:


> "Once a woman has forgiven her man,
> she must not reheat his sins for breakfast."


For me, I can and will forgive all mistakes but will not tolerate cheating/betrayal. It's like picking up pieces of shattered glass that cuts you. Once trust is broken in a relationship, you can't put it back to it's original state.


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