# Pope Says 'We Abandoned the Little Ones', in Response to Child Abuse Findings



## SeaBreeze (Aug 20, 2018)

So many cases of child abuse by Roman Catholic priests just in Pennsylvania over time is very disturbing.  Bishops and others involved helped to keep the abuse hidden from the public.  Hopefully there will be more investigations in all states and serious action taken to stop this treatment of young children.  I was raised in the Catholic faith, although I no longer practice any particular religion.  Thankfully I never experienced anything bad from the priests or nuns, and don't personally know of anyone who did.    More here.  



> Rome  (CNN)Pope Francis  has acknowledged "with shame and repentance" the Catholic Church's  failure to act over ****** abuse by clerics against minors going back  decades, writing "we showed no care for the little ones; we abandoned  them."
> 
> In an unusually blunt letter  released by the Vatican on Monday, the Pope wrote, "I acknowledge once  more the suffering endured by many minors due to ****** abuse, the abuse  of power and the abuse of conscience perpetrated by a significant  number of clerics and consecrated persons.
> 
> ...


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## C'est Moi (Aug 20, 2018)

Sad and disgusting.   "Men of God."


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## Shalimar (Aug 20, 2018)

This is what paedophiles do, infiltrate places of power and trust. Arch predators.


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## Keesha (Aug 20, 2018)

Yes! Men of God ! 
Disgusting but true! 
The more power, the bigger the betrayal


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 21, 2018)

Tragic situation.

IMO it is particularly scary for children in the third world/developing nations where the parish priest is in a position to wield so much power over every aspect of day to day life for many families.

In fairness, it's not just an issue in the Catholic church it is an issue in all areas of our society.

I don't know how to fix it but I believe that one possible precaution is to include at least one mother or grandmother in every event/meeting and never allow a child to be left alone with an individual person in a position of authority over them.


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## Warrigal (Aug 21, 2018)

The catholic church needs to move forward out of the Middle Ages. 

For starters I believe these reforms are overdue in 21st century:

Do away with the robes and other clerical dress that sets the priesthood apart from ordinary people.
Embrace ordination of women. Allow clergy to marry and give the laity a voice in all church councils.

That's not all, but demystification of the priesthood would go along way to making sure such crimes do not continue to be hidden.


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## StarSong (Aug 21, 2018)

I'm always surprised at the level of shock that these cases evoke.  Horror yes, but shock and surprise?  Really?  Especially these days, what with a couple of decades worth of "outing" of these predators cloaking themselves in vestments and hiding behind the cross.  

Although I wasn't raised a Roman Catholic, I grew up in a heavily RC area.  There were always "jokes" in the schoolyard as well as among adults about homosexual, pedophile, or perverted priests/nuns as well as hanky-panky going on between the priests and nuns.  Then there were the stories of cruel, sadistic nuns who taught in Catholic schools.  The kids were absolutely terrified of some of them.    

As it happens over the past 25 years I've had a close business association with a RC school and came to know a couple of lovely, lovely nuns.  They were kind, gentle and much beloved by the student body. Please don't think I'm spreading hate about the Roman Catholic church.  I'm merely saying that anyone whose eyes and ears were open during the 60s had to know that this was happening.  

Puritan history being a notable exception, no similar tales made the rounds about Protestant or Jewish clergy.  There were undoubtedly some instances of the same types of ****** activity and cruelties among those groups, but it was not widespread to the point of generating the "open secrets" that surrounded RC priests and nuns.


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## Sunny (Aug 21, 2018)

It does happen in other religions, StarSong, but certainly not to the extent that it does in the Roman Catholic church. Probably a large part of the reason is the refusal to allow priests to marry, or to be women. Incredible that in this day and age, the church is still holding fast.  The Pope says:



> "Looking  back to the past, no effort to beg pardon and to seek to  repair the  harm done will ever be sufficient. Looking ahead to the  future, no  effort must be spared to create a culture able to prevent  such  situations from happening, but also to prevent the possibility of  their  being covered up and perpetuated."



So, how about starting with a Papal edict that says priests may marry, and they may be women, as the clergy are in nearly every other religion?


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## StarSong (Aug 21, 2018)

Sunny;876966[B said:
			
		

> ]It does happen in other religions, StarSong, but certainly not to the extent that it does in the Roman Catholic church.[/B] Probably a large part of the reason is the refusal to allow priests to marry, or to be women. Incredible that in this day and age, the church is still holding fast.  The Pope says:
> 
> So, how about starting with a Papal edict that says priests may marry, and they may be women, as the clergy are in nearly every other religion?



That was exactly my point.  Other churches have Isolated incidents, to be sure, but aren't built on a hierarchical foundation that (intentionally or unintentionally) sets the stage, entices the players, and nourishes these activities and perversions.  These same people are in a position of trust and typically know their victims' deepest secrets through the confessional booth, so the power tilt is extreme.  Talk about a perfect opportunity to exploit.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 21, 2018)

StarSong said:


> I'm always surprised at the level of shock that these cases evoke.  Horror yes, but shock and surprise?  Really?  Especially these days, what with a couple of decades worth of "outing" of these predators cloaking themselves in vestments and hiding behind the cross.
> 
> There were always "jokes" in the schoolyard as well as among adults about homosexual, pedophile, or perverted priests/nuns as well as hanky-panky going on between the priests and nuns.  Then there were the stories of cruel, sadistic nuns who taught in Catholic schools.  The kids were absolutely terrified of some of them.
> 
> ...



I'm not shocked at all, but seeing the numbers in the report is a reality check, and I'm glad this is at least out in the open, although there may be no complete resolution to the problem.  When I was very young, I did hear the older kids talking about hanky-panky going on with nuns and priests, although there was no mention at the time of child abuse.  Even as a child I had an open-mind, and although I thought it might just be rumor, speculation and exaggeration, there may very well be truth in it.  And that was in the early 60s.

Priests (and nuns) having to remain celebate was always hard to imagine for me, and I can see where there would be some mental and emotional turmoil when denied the right to have a close relationship with another person, as in marriage.  Some more about it here.  



> Studies have linked ****** repression to greater aggression,  though they do not distinguish between involuntary repression and  voluntary abstinence. A person on whom celibacy is imposed, like a  frustrated guy who can't get a date, is likely to react very differently  than someone who chooses it, like a seminarian who voluntarily decides  to follow a celibacy rule.
> 
> Most studies on how priests and nuns  deal with the celibacy rule are affiliated with the Vatican itself, so  one might detect a bias. In a 2011 survey of 2,500 priests,  Monsignor Stephen Rossetti found that priests are among the happiest  members of American society- most of the priests attributed their  contentment to their strong inner peace and spiritual relationship with  God.
> 
> ...


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## StarSong (Aug 21, 2018)

An interesting article on when and why the Catholic church decreed that priests must remain unmarried and celibate: 
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/696


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## Giantsfan1954 (Aug 21, 2018)

I know as a young child in a very "orthodox"roman Catholic immigrant,Irish-Scottish family,it was a HUGE honor to be able to serve as an altar boy or in some capacity as an assistant to the clergy.
This puts young boys in very close proximity to the priests and no one would dare question anything.
I agree 100% priests and nuns should be able to wed.
I was also taught in elementary school by nuns,1 in particular was fond of weilding a brass ruler on your knuckles and tossing erasers at our heads.


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## hearlady (Aug 21, 2018)

I grew up north of Boston. My mother's family was Protestant, my father's Catholic. I had only one sibling that embraced the Catholic church when she married a man from a strict Catholic family. Her children were raised Catholic. They have been very hurt by these revelations. It's disgusting that this not only occurred but was covered up by the church. I feel so bad for the families affected. The families of the victims and the families of the clergy.


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## hearlady (Aug 21, 2018)

StarSong said:


> An interesting article on when and why the Catholic church decreed that priests must remain unmarried and celibate:
> https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/696


That is interesting StarSong.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Aug 21, 2018)

They have effectively "shot themselves in the foot" with their cover up attempts,its now no longer possible who is actual a victim and who just joined the bandwagon for the financial payoffs.
Not sure if there is a statute of limitations on this filth.


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## Falcon (Aug 21, 2018)

I never  was  fond  of clergy people and  still give them a wide berth.  They don't  scare me.

They simply live off their followers  and don't  really  have  jobs.  ANYBODY  can  don a robe  and collect  a bunch  of  loyal  followers.


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## Seeker (Aug 21, 2018)

Been going on for years...

If they think they have a little power or are held on a pedestal, they will abuse it.

Not just priest, it's teachers, preachers, police, etc.

Not all, but a whole lot of them will, and as long as they get away with it they will continue.

Makes me sick to my stomach that so many prey on the little children.


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## StarSong (Aug 22, 2018)

Seeker said:


> Been going on for years...
> 
> If they think they have a little power or are held on a pedestal, they will abuse it.
> 
> ...



Also parents, older siblings, other relatives, and neighbors.


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## WhatInThe (Aug 26, 2018)

A local church had a priest until 2011ish whose name came up in many investigations and lawsuits in the 1980s and 90s. In any job if you are getting a different assignments at a much greater rate than the rest of the employees that means the bosses are trying to hide you or trying to get you to quit. This is exactly what happened with this guy-he was all over the place if you looked at his history.

One must wonder how much their underlings were groomed, influenced or enabled in this kind of behavior. This is why the problem won't go away anytime soon. It may be reduced but not even close to eliminated.


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## KingsX (Aug 26, 2018)

.

He ought to know... in the meantime,  he embraces perverts.


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## KingsX (Aug 26, 2018)

.

I grew up in a strict moral Protestant Southern society.  

In my family and with my friends there was no ugly talk about sex, rumor or otherwise and definitely no talk about perversion.

I didn't know what a homosexual was until I was in college.


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## gennie (Aug 26, 2018)

The Pope was long on talk of the anguish of the victims but had little to say about retribution and punishment of the offenders.  His universal apologies for past offenders (most dead) is not enough.  What is needed is personal public acknowledgements and apologies from living offenders as soon as the offense is known.


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## Catlady (Aug 27, 2018)

Well, in the middle ages only firstborn sons were allowed to inherit, the younger sons were on their own and many became popes and high priests.  They were in it for a livelihood, not as a ''servant of God''.  I wonder how many nowadays do it for Jesus/God.


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## StarSong (Aug 27, 2018)

PVC said:


> Well, in the middle ages only firstborn sons were allowed to inherit, the younger sons were on their own and many became popes and high priests.  They were in it for a livelihood, not as a ''servant of God''.  I wonder how many nowadays do it for Jesus/God.



Most probably start off with the best of intentions but repressing and subverting human ****** drives is a whole lot easier said than done.  It's long past time for RC priests and nuns to be able to marry.


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## Catlady (Aug 27, 2018)

StarSong said:


> Most probably start off with the best of intentions but repressing and subverting human ****** drives is a whole lot easier said than done.  It's long past time for RC priests and nuns to be able to marry.



I partially agree with you.  BUT, being married doesn't stop people from cheating and molesting and pedophilia.  If ****** release were the only factor, masturbation would easily take care of needs.


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## Catlady (Aug 27, 2018)

I was scandalized when I found out a long time ago that the famous poisoner Lucrezia Borgia of Italy was the daughter of a pope.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lucrezia’s father, Cardinal Rodrigo Borgia, was named Pope Alexander VI  in 1492, and Lucrezia was married a year later. Four years later,  Lucrezia's marriage became less politically advantageous, and Pope  Alexander VI sought to have it annulled under the pretense of the  relationship never having been consummated. While annulment negotiations  were ongoing between the Borgias and the Sforzas, Lucrezia rested in a  nearby convent.


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## Shalimar (Aug 27, 2018)

Paedophiles would still be active whether or not the celibacy rule existed. These chicken hawks/shorteyes, are the ultimate ****** predators.


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## StarSong (Aug 27, 2018)

PVC said:


> I partially agree with you.  BUT, being married doesn't stop people from cheating and molesting and pedophilia.  If ****** release were the only factor, masturbation would easily take care of needs.



Priests and nuns are not supposed to masturbate.


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## Falcon (Aug 27, 2018)

Yeah,  They run the  risk  of  going blind !   That's what the nuns  tell  the  little  boys.   SCAREY !!!


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## DaveA (Aug 28, 2018)

Falcon said:


> Yeah,  They run the  risk  of  going blind !   That's what the nuns  tell  the  little  boys.   SCAREY !!!



Falcon  - - I didn't need glasses 'til I was in my early 40's.  Was that a good or bad sign, regarding past behaviors ??


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## Shalimar (Aug 28, 2018)

DaveA said:


> Falcon  - - I didn't need glasses 'til I was in my early 40's.  Was that a good or bad sign, regarding past behaviors ??


Oooh, I just spit coffee on the cat! Loll


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## Shalimar (Aug 28, 2018)

It is well documented that the more sexually repressive an organisation or country is, the greater the level of ****** predation.


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## Falcon (Aug 28, 2018)

Yep.   I can sure believe that !


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## PopsnTuff (Aug 28, 2018)

Being a paedophile has nothing to do with ****** orientation. I do believe though that many of them did hide under the robe to gain access to as many children as they could...that is sick. Many might think they are homosexuals.....but homosexuals, like heterosexuals, do not commit these horrific crimes against children. paedophiles commit these horrific crimes.

It's quite horrific to think how many child abusers there have been out there for so long, working in professions that hold a position of trust and bringing them into regular contact with children. Now the authorities have started investigating, the flood gates have opened and uncovered how widespread it was and how often it was brushed under the carpet.
They should have been stopped and brought to justice long ago but better late than never. I do think that anyone who has helped abusers to cover up abuse or who has turned a blind eye to it is beneath contempt, as well the abusers themselves.

Instead of a parade of adoration, I would wonder why the crowds carrying their children on their hips would not be screaming for something more than a smile and a wave from the leader of their Church.

A protest against the church would've been more appropriate....how the parishioners idolize these popes and clergy is beyond me....wake up people!


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## PopsnTuff (Dec 20, 2018)

_*It just never ends....what an atrocity!*_

_*Illinois Catholic church allegedly failed to investigate 500 priest sex abuse allegations*

CHICAGO — The Catholic Church in Illinois failed to disclose hundreds of claims of ****** abuse against priests and clergy members, state Attorney General Lisa Madigan said Wednesday.

The six Catholic dioceses of Illinois previously released the names of 185 clergy members who church officials determined were “credibly” accused of ****** abuse. But Madigan issued a preliminary report that found there are at least another 500 clergy that the Illinois’ dioceses have received allegations about but have not publicly acknowledged or thoroughly investigated.....Read more.....

news.yahoo.com/illinois-catholic-church-...ailed-004839939.html_


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## PopsnTuff (Dec 20, 2018)

_*And there's more! So glad they're nailing these pervs....
*_
_*LA bishop resigns 13 years after church learned of sex claim*_

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Pope Francis has accepted the resignation of a Los Angeles auxiliary bishop, Monsignor Alexander Salazar, following an allegation of ****** misconduct with a child in the 1990s, officials said Wednesday....
Read more....

news.yahoo.com/pope-accepts-resignation-...nduct-112609989.html


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## fuzzybuddy (Dec 21, 2018)

I just saw a TV interview with a Catholic Bishop. He stated that all credible accusations would be addressed by a "council". I thought they haven't learned a thing. Gee, who gets to determine which accusation is "credible". And addressed by a handpicked "Council"?
Also, I believe there are unanswered questions. Why are there tens of thousands of pedophile priests throughout the world wide Church? Pedophiles are a small percentage of ****** activities, and given the huge number of priest offenders; what other vast undiscovered Clerical list of ****** activity might there be?


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## Catlady (Dec 21, 2018)

fuzzybuddy said:


> what other vast undiscovered Clerical list of ****** activity might there be?



I read that after WW2, while trying to clear out bombed ruins in Italy, they found a secret tunnel between the nuns and the monks buildings and the tunnel was littered with newborn's skeletons.  I was raised a Catholic but became Agnostic when I was 18 and was asking questions about the faith no one could answer.  I think all organized religions are hypocrites "Do as I say, not as I do".  In my lifetime I have only met one nun that I really liked.


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## rgp (Dec 21, 2018)

PVC said:


> I read that after WW2, while trying to clear out bombed ruins in Italy, they found a secret tunnel between the nuns and the monks buildings and the tunnel was littered with newborn's skeletons.  I was raised a Catholic but became Agnostic when I was 18 and was asking questions about the faith no one could answer.  I think all organized religions are hypocrites "Do as I say, not as I do".  In my lifetime I have only met one nun that I really liked.




 Exactly...couldn't agree more.


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## Sunny (Dec 21, 2018)

The reason it's gone on so long is due to the coverup by the church.  You'd think after the movie "Spotlight" came out, there would have been a dramatic explosion within the church about this. But as far as I can
tell, nada.


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## rgp (Dec 21, 2018)

Sunny said:


> The reason it's gone on so long is due to the coverup by the church.  You'd think after the movie "Spotlight" came out, there would have been a dramatic explosion within the church about this. But as far as I can
> tell, nada.




 How many have even heard of that movie?....I never have till now. And most would say, ...that's Hollywood.


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## Sunny (Dec 21, 2018)

rgp, many millions of people have heard of that movie. It won the Oscar for best picture of 2016 and was shown for months at theaters all over the country!  I am astonished that you never heard of it.

As far as "that's Hollywood,"  it is well documented and was completely convincing to me, and I'm a pretty cynical person. The story is about discovery of the abuse, and exposure within a highly respected newspaper, not some junk tabloid. And of course, this movie is hardly the only exposure this disgrace within the Catholic Church has gotten.  It's been well known for many, many years, has provoked widespread disgust, and many dedicated Catholics have left the church because of it.

The solution is obvious. Just allow the priests to marry. Sheesh, it doesn't exactly take rocket science to figure that out!

It will be interesting to see what this Pope does about it.


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## StarSong (Dec 21, 2018)

"Spotlight" won the Academy Awards for best picture and best original screenplay.  It is an excellent movie that's well worth the watch.  It's available on Netflix but not Amazon Prime.


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## Catlady (Dec 21, 2018)

Sunny said:


> The reason it's gone on so long is due to the coverup by the church.  You'd think after the movie "Spotlight" came out, there would have been a dramatic explosion within the church about this. But as far as I can
> tell, nada.


The only way to stop the apathy of the pope and his underlings and bring about an honest change is to hit them in the wallet.  Boycott and no longer give them money.  But, there are way too many ignorant and naive and superstitious people in the world who believe if they stop going to church the gates of heaven will be closed to them and they will end up in the eternal flames of hell (all myths made up by the clerics to manipulate and control the population).  One only has to see the extravagant lifestyles of the pope and cardinals to see that money rules their lives.  The Catholic clergy and nuns supposedly took an oath of chastity and poverty, but in real life they do neither.  Anyone heard of the two nuns who were detouring money paid to their schools into their own account and were taking expensive vacations?  Most (not all) of them are corrupt people cloaked in religious robes.


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## rgp (Dec 21, 2018)

Sunny said:


> rgp, many millions of people have heard of that movie. It won the Oscar for best picture of 2016 and was shown for months at theaters all over the country!  I am astonished that you never heard of it.
> 
> As far as "that's Hollywood,"  it is well documented and was completely convincing to me, and I'm a pretty cynical person. The story is about discovery of the abuse, and exposure within a highly respected newspaper, not some junk tabloid. And of course, this movie is hardly the only exposure this disgrace within the Catholic Church has gotten.  It's been well known for many, many years, has provoked widespread disgust, and many dedicated Catholics have left the church because of it.
> 
> ...




 Not arguing, as I have no facts to back one but. I'm just not sure so many 'flock' to the theater , as you suggest?

I haven't been to a movie since the Amelia Earhart story. And again, not arguing, but I just think few people blend reality with a movie script. 

As far as the Catholic church, & all others...I agree with you. As for the Priest marrying being a solution?....I'm not so sure there. If ****** deviance is part of their makeup, a mental weakness ? Marriage might just provide a place to hide.


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## Pepper (Dec 21, 2018)

rgp said:


> As far as the Catholic church, & all others...I agree with you. As for the Priest marrying being a solution?....I'm not so sure there. If ****** deviance is part of their makeup, a mental weakness ? Marriage might just provide a place to hide.



If you mean indulging with children I think you are on to something very important.


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## C'est Moi (Dec 21, 2018)

Sunny said:


> The solution is obvious. Just allow the priests to marry. Sheesh, it doesn't exactly take rocket science to figure that out!
> 
> It will be interesting to see what this Pope does about it.



Sorry, but I disagree about your "obvious solution."   A marriage isn't going to fix a ****** deviant, which pedophilia certainly is.   Then the creep would just have a woman to hide behind and make miserable.   Seems to me that the overlooked indication is that a high number of pedophiles are drawn to priesthood.   

As for what the Pope will do... apparently he will say "what a shame" and go back to counting his money.


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## Catlady (Dec 21, 2018)

I liked Pope Francis right away, maybe because St Francis was the only saint I liked (he was kind to animals) and also because his PR claimed that he was unassuming and humble.  Then we find out that his ex-secretary and best friend had sexually abused many children and Francis moved him to Australia to get him away from the fire (and free to abuse some more children there).  That's when I lost all my hopes and respect for him.  As to allowing priests to marry, I don't know if that is the solution.  Lots of married men sexually abuse their children and their friends, they use marriage as a cloak, like men used to hide their homosexuality with marriage.  Wonder if they have a study of religions where they are allowed to marry, such as protestants and the church of England, whether there's a lot of pedophilia going on.


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## Sunny (Dec 21, 2018)

I wonder, what are the statistics on ****** abuse of children within other religions?  The ones that do allow their ministers to marry? I know it does happen occasionally, but certainly not in the overwhelming
numbers found within the Catholic Church.  If priests (and nuns) are forbidden to marry and live a normal adult life with the other adult they love, the clergy will be disproportionately filled by those who are
seeking "other" outlets.  

With gay marriage now permitted in many states, the Church could even have married gay priests.  I suspect that the incidence of ****** assault on choir boys would immediately go way down.  So, what's
holding them up?  What is the Pope actually doing about it?


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## StarSong (Dec 21, 2018)

Sunny said:


> I wonder, what are the statistics on ****** abuse of children within other religions?  The ones that do allow their ministers to marry? I know it does happen occasionally, but certainly not in the overwhelming
> numbers found within the Catholic Church.  If priests (and nuns) are forbidden to marry and live a normal adult life with the other adult they love, the clergy will be disproportionately filled by those who are
> seeking "other" outlets.
> 
> ...



I completely agree with this post.


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## StarSong (Dec 21, 2018)

While we're at it. how about the Catholic church lifting its ridiculous, outdated ban on birth control?  
With over over 7.6 billion people in the world already, I'd say we've been fruitful and multiplied beyond all reasonable expectation.


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## Catlady (Dec 21, 2018)

StarSong said:


> While we're at it. how about the Catholic church lifting its ridiculous, outdated ban on birth control?
> With over over 7.6 billion people in the world already, I'd say we've been fruitful and multiplied beyond all reasonable expectation.


 
Well, the bible says that wasting semen is a sin, so that might be the reason, or they want as many possible Catholics being born to fill their coffers.


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## StarSong (Dec 21, 2018)

There are lots of now-ignored laws in Leviticus and Exodus that posed less dire consequences than overpopulation will bring.  You may be right, PVC, about wanting to ensure there will be plenty o future collection-plate fillers.


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## Catlady (Dec 21, 2018)

I found this article, published in 2010 and pretty old, but it claims that abuse is across many denominations, including those allowing priest marriages.  So, how come we only hear about Catholic priests?  I would like to find more current statistics.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/hark/2010/05/25/scandal-creates-contempt-for-catholic-clergy/39/


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## Catlady (Dec 21, 2018)

Aha, here's a current one, published in August, 2018.  Talks about cases of ****** abuse in other denominations.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/letti...solve-the-catholic-churchs-pedophilia-problem


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## StarSong (Dec 21, 2018)

The Catholic church has shown decades of its hierarchy not only denying the evidence of abuse, but also jockeying the abusers from one parish to the next.  Do some others with access to children also abuse those children?  Of course.  But unlike the Catholic church, other entire systems of higher-ups (all the way to the top) are rarely complicit in hiding those abuses and shielding the abusers.


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## fuzzybuddy (Dec 21, 2018)

Priests marrying isn't going to solve anything. Unless you allow priests to marry 6-9 year olds. The problem with the Catholic Church is that pedophiles  are/were accepted, and coddled.


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## Sunny (Dec 21, 2018)

Of course it would at least partially improve things, fuzzybuddy. The priesthood wouldn't be overrun with so many dysfunctional people who are unable to have a normal relationship with a
consenting adult.  The pedophiles would still be with us, but not so many of them would become priests, as there would be less room for them there.


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## Trade (Dec 21, 2018)

PVC said:


> Well, the bible says that wasting semen is a sin,



Really!? 

I didn't know that!


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## Sunny (Dec 22, 2018)

It's in Genesis, Chapter 38.  Here's a summary turned up by Google:

When Onan had sex with *Tamar*, he withdrew  before his orgasm and "spilled his seed [or semen] on the ground", since  any child born would not legally be considered his heir. The next  statement in the Bible says that Onan did evil and that God slew him.

The papal encyclical Casti connubii (1930) invokes this Biblical text in support of the teaching of the Catholic Church against contracepted sex. 

(Funny that this has turned up in Current News and Hot Topics!)


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## StarSong (Dec 22, 2018)

Don't you love how religions pick and choose which passages to enforce and which to gloss over?


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## Catlady (Dec 22, 2018)

Sunny said:


> It's in Genesis, Chapter 38.  Here's a summary turned up by Google:
> 
> When Onan had sex with *Tamar*, he withdrew  before his orgasm and "spilled his seed [or semen] on the ground", since  any child born would not legally be considered his heir. The next  statement in the Bible says that Onan did evil and that God slew him.
> 
> ...



Also the reason why masturbation is also considered a sin (wasted semen) and the masturbating person will become blind.  LOL  Were those evil priests only be guilty of THAT and not molesting little humans.


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## StarSong (Dec 22, 2018)

When looking at this further, the explanation for why God might have slain Onan is as follows: 

The implication from the narrative is that Onan's act as described is  what gave rise to divine displeasure, but even if that is the case it is  not clear whether his objectionable behaviour was the refusal to  complete the levirate obligation of providing sperm for his brother's  widow to continue his brother's name (and clan rights) or "shedding seed  in vain", or even having sex with Tamar (who would normally be  prohibited to him as a sister-in-law) outside the context of an  overriding levirate (marrying a deceased brother's wife) obligation.


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## Sunny (Dec 22, 2018)

A lot of the Bible is fuzzy that way, probably because it was written so long ago and by so many people. Things get repeated, and misquoted, and so on. Another example is the prohibition against cooking a baby animal (a kid, or a lamb, I forget which) in the milk of its mother, probably for humanitarian reasons. That one gave rise to a large part of the system of kasruth (kosher food) in which meat and dairy products cannot be cooked or served together. Just one sentence is all it took, and the authoritiees were off and running. IMO, those early theologians had too much time on their hands.


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## ronk (Dec 23, 2018)

Let's get real here. Child abuse in the Catholic church has gone on as long as the Church itself. Why are we still hearing about abuse, and why hasn't the Catholic Church done something about it. Get rid of the perverts. Fire them, don't retire them with a "pension." Don't ignore them.


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## rgp (Dec 23, 2018)

ronk said:


> Let's get real here. Child abuse in the Catholic church has gone on as long as the Church itself. Why are we still hearing about abuse, and why hasn't the Catholic Church done something about it. Get rid of the perverts. Fire them, don't retire them with a "pension." Don't ignore them.




  Very true, I also wonder why in all these years law enforcement has not pursued it in a more aggressive way .

  IMO there is a certain 'hands-off' attitude at the upper level, of both,  that is way to obvious. Yet neither does a damn thing about.


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## fuzzybuddy (Dec 23, 2018)

I'm not moved by a religious text concerning "wasted semen" being a "sin". I am concerned by the LAW of the Land
18 U.S. Code § 2251 - ****** exploitation of children.


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## Sassycakes (Dec 27, 2018)

I was born and raised Roman Catholic and went to Catholic school. I know how frightened most children were of the Nun's. I was taught by them and believe me they scared the heck out of all of us and most of the kids were afraid to tell their parents. I never heard of Priests molesting boys until the later years and it makes me sick. I can't imagine a punishment strong enough for them to be given and it makes me sick about the coverup by the church.


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## fuzzybuddy (Dec 29, 2018)

I have to admit that when I see a Roman Catholic priest's collar, all I see are pedophiles.


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## 911 (Dec 30, 2018)

Wasn’t it just reported that a Cardinal is being accused of child ****** abuse?


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## Catlady (Dec 30, 2018)

911 said:


> Wasn’t it just reported that a Cardinal is being accused of child ****** abuse?



I wouldn't be surprised if Francis has also done it.  He came from Chile or somewhere and there the people treat clergy like gods.  Of course, if he did stuff it will never come out.  I say this because his secretary and best friend was also accused and all Francis did was banish him to Australia (to continue his evil deeds).


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## C'est Moi (Dec 30, 2018)

I recommend a movie on Showtime called 'Spotlight.'   It is about the Boston Globe's reporting of the coverup in the Boston diocese and it is a real eye-opener about the power of the Catholic Church.


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## Damaged Goods (May 5, 2020)

Falcon said:


> Yeah,  They run the  risk  of  going blind !   That's what the nuns  tell  the  little  boys.   SCAREY !!!



Nuns?  Shucks, dad told me many times that masturbation caused blindness.  I openly scoffed at his bogus nonsense.

Then at age 12, I started wearing glasses.


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## win231 (May 5, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> The catholic church needs to move forward out of the Middle Ages.
> 
> For starters I believe these reforms are overdue in 21st century:
> 
> ...


Interesting that you suggest doing away with the robes and other clerical dress.  Because of the perversion and cover ups, the _*first *_thing I think of when I see a priest wearing robes & clerical dress is _"Keep children away from that pervert."_


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## win231 (May 5, 2020)

Seeker said:


> Been going on for years...
> 
> If they think they have a little power or are held on a pedestal, they will abuse it.
> 
> ...


True - not all are molesters.  BUT, the ones who cover it up are just as guilty as the molesters.  And that includes just about all of them.


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## OneEyedDiva (May 5, 2020)

Several priests were found to have been abusers here in N.J.  At least one was from a parish in my vicinity. Knowing that it went on so close to home was even more disturbing. Reading the stories of the men affected was heartbreaking. One of the priests was killed, maybe by a disgruntled family member.  I blame those who covered it up just as much as the perpetrators. The mental health and sanity of children were sacrificed to save face for the Catholic church.


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## win231 (May 5, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I have to admit that when I see a Roman Catholic priest's collar, all I see are pedophiles.


Me, too.  And they've certainly earned it.


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## win231 (May 5, 2020)

DaveA said:


> Falcon  - - I didn't need glasses 'til I was in my early 40's.  Was that a good or bad sign, regarding past behaviors ??


I was born very nearsighted.  So....I must have masturbated before birth.


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## jerry old (May 5, 2020)

Interesting thread, but once bent these guys can't be fixed.

Etiology-unknown, the infected-unknown (until they act)
cure-none: prison, no effect,...


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## fuzzybuddy (May 6, 2020)

We have beaten this topic to death. But, what you can not deny that is the number of pedophiles in the clergy. I've begun to ask why. Why are pedophiles attracted to the clergy?  And another thing I've been tossing around in my head is that pedophilia isn't a main stream ****** persuasion, or what ever . Most  men aren't pedophiles. So, if so many little boys were abused, what about little girls? Is there another huge cache of abused kids yet to be discovered?


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## JaniceM (May 6, 2020)

It's probably logical that disgusting perverts choose lines of work where they're most likely to encounter potential victims.

However, there could be an additional reason:  while the Catholic Church isn't unique in focusing on "Paul said" over "God said," the Catholic Church doesn't seem to realize commitment to the priesthood involves an abnormal way of life.


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## fuzzybuddy (May 6, 2020)

Depending on the Order , most priests take a vow of celibacy, not chastity. The difference being that priests cannot get legally married, rather than having no ****** partners. This is because when the clergy was allowed to be married, when they died; it was difficult to decide what assets were the priest's, and which were the church's. If you can't legally marry, you can't have legal heirs. If you notice the vow is not to marry, but that leaves an awful lot still on the table.


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## StarSong (May 6, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Depending on the Order , most priests take a vow of celibacy, not chastity. The difference being that priests cannot get legally married, rather than having no ****** partners. This is because when the clergy was allowed to be married, when they died; it was difficult to decide what assets were the priest's, and which were the church's. If you can't legally marry, you can't have legal heirs. If you notice the vow is not to marry, but that leaves an awful lot still on the table.


Are you saying that priests are permitted to have ****** relations as long as they don't marry or procreate?  

I'm not a Catholic, but that's sure different from they way I've understood priests' vows.


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## JaniceM (May 6, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Depending on the Order , most priests take a vow of celibacy, not chastity. The difference being that priests cannot get legally married, rather than having no ****** partners. This is because when the clergy was allowed to be married, when they died; it was difficult to decide what assets were the priest's, and which were the church's. If you can't legally marry, you can't have legal heirs. If you notice the vow is not to marry, but that leaves an awful lot still on the table.


I never heard of that.


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## Aneeda72 (May 6, 2020)

Sunny said:


> It does happen in other religions, StarSong, but certainly not to the extent that it does in the Roman Catholic church. Probably a large part of the reason is the refusal to allow priests to marry, or to be women. Incredible that in this day and age, the church is still holding fast.  The Pope says:
> 
> 
> 
> So, how about starting with a Papal edict that says priests may marry, and they may be women, as the clergy are in nearly every other religion?


Marriage has nothing to do with it.  You either prefer children or you don’t.


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## jerry old (May 6, 2020)

The history of the pope's is a long study.  
Somewhere the train went off the tracks, in the Middle Ages and there are a lot of horror stories regarding events in
monasteries and convents.  Remember these facilities were  often the only alternative to starving.  It was a tough time to
be alive.   

The Crusades exhibited the political power of the Popes, not unnoticed by those seeking political power.
In the Renaissance the pope was a political office-period.

The history of the popes and monks is a narrative driven by
the events of their times.  
Our modern era is but a particle of the church's history.

Their are many devout priests, monks and nuns seeking a method to honor and serve God; the Catholic Church meets that need.

I am not defending the Catholic Church's hierarchy.
I only wish to point out that chastity is an expectation
far beyond the capacity of most people.
If compliance is anticipated, something is wrong with the
hierarchy and the lay people.


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