# Losing Collin left me gutted



## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

I came to Senior Forums about 6 weeks ago because I was incredibly sad. My heart had been ripped to shreds, and I’m still not over it.

But, back up: I was a single father of three; 2 boys and a girl, all adults now and doing well, families of their own and all that. I moved where I currently live a little over 5 years ago, and a few years later I decided being a foster parent would be a great idea – I’d be doing something good and it would prevent me feeling isolated. So I contacted CPS, took their courses, had my apartment inspected and got licensed, and just four days later CPS delivered a child to my door.

I said child but this was a tiny baby! three weeks old and delivered as if I’d ordered him off Amazon, with nothing but a few single-use diapers, a half-full can of formula and the onesie on his back. Okay, not a problem bc I was told I would probably be getting a baby (but they didn't say infant), so my daughter and my son’s wives had gone shopping (all those 4 days, I think), and a bunch of their girlfriends brought over so much clothing, toys, bottle sterilizers and other baby stuff you’d think the kid was triplets. And my sons helped me convert my office into a nursery exceptall we put in it was a crib and a little chest of drawers so the girls came in and decorated it. Dinosaur themed.

Anyway, I was told by one of several workers assigned to the baby’s case (it’s crazy how many workers are assigned to each case, each one specializing in one aspect of it. Really nuts) that I could expect the mother to get the baby back within a couple of months. Well that’s not what happened bc she kept not going to her rehab meetings and failing her drug tests. So I’m hearing this every month; that it should just be another couple of months and Collin would be back in his mother’s arms, but it’s not happening. I even allowed her to have her bi-weekly visit with Collin here at my place, which I was allowed to supervise (bc I went for the *Super License*) hoping that would help things progress. But her visits were sporadic, and then she just didn’t come at all.

By his first birthday, no one even knew where Collin’s mother was. Six months later, she resurfaced; checked into rehab. Relapsed a few weeks later, was readmitted a few weeks after, and this went on until Collin was starting to talk, and we were getting tight. I mean, this kid! Such a cool kid. Smart as hell, funny too, and freaking adorable. And he’s calling me daddy and hugging me all the time, we brushed our teeth together, ate together, listened to music together, took walks together. But, I mean, who else, right? We were just me and him.

By birthday #2, his mother had finally completed rehab as well as a sobriety maintenance program, and she’s living in transitional housing, and she’s visiting Collin regularly but not at my place. CPS has a family visiting center and they transported him there a couple times a week for the 2 hour visits. That was hard for him, so I started taking him over there myself, and of course I was explaining what was going on the best I could, like, on his level. Then he started spending a night with her once a week, and then over the weekends as well, which was tough for me and even harder for him at first, but I’m talking to him to make him feel okay about it, and she’s still living under supervision, so there was that.

Collin was 3 when CPS told me there would be a trial. Collin’s mother wanted custody now and CPS was going to fight it. And by this time, I’m 100% daddy in his eyes, and 100% Collin’s daddy in my own heart. By this time, he knows everyone in *our* family and we’re all really close, and he’s sneaking out of his bed and crawling into mine in the middle of the night, and I love this kid! I’m teaching him morals and kindness to the earth and the neighbors, and the neighbors all know him and stop to chat with him and say how handsome and well-mannered he is. And he IS! All that and sharp as a freaking tack and full of stories to tell me, and I’m just in awe of my little man, right?

But Family Court doesn’t see that stuff. Their #1 priority is reuniting families. Not ours – not me and Collin’s - _hers_. And her attitude sucks. She treated me like I stole her kid from the get-go and throughout. But the court doesn’t see that either, even though CPS showed evidence of that and some other stuff. So, when he was 3 years and 3 months old, I lost Collin. And it was so immediate – that very day they came and took him. I didn’t even have time to thoroughly explain to him what was happening, and that it wasn’t happening bc he was a bad boy or I don’t like him or don’t want him anymore.

It ripped me to shreds, like part of me died tormentingly, and I can’t even think about what’s going through his little head because when I do I tear up and get shredded all over again. Yet I can’t stop thinking about it. I’m all teared up right now just writing about it.

This can’t be good for these kids; kids like Collin. Or their foster families either. I totally noped out of taking any more kids. I can’t. I’d like to help them but this isn’t helping – to return them to mothers like this? And in this way? That’s not helping, it’s hurting. I can’t condone that or be a part of it. To raise another kid from babyhood to toddlerhood with full knowledge that life is going to just suddenly take a huge crap on them at a very tender age…no no no-freaking-way.


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## Devi (Nov 21, 2020)

I can certainly understand that, @Murrmurr -- it sounds so unfair. Both to you and to the child. Sorry that happened.


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## Devi (Nov 21, 2020)

They're certainly not looking at the whole picture.


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 21, 2020)

Hugs to you, Murrmurr, and even though I know cyber hugs do little to calm the pain, it's the thought that counts (knowing people care).

I spend a number of years as a mothers helper in my teens caregiving in a private foster-care home just down the street from where I lived. I used to think about all of the babies, their pasts, what sort of beginnings they had, lots of stuff, but being younger those thoughts were passing, that is until I got older and understood more about foster-care.

Now, with so many years (decades) that have passed, I often think about and wonder what happened to all of those little ones. Reality tells me that some likely enjoyed a proper and grounded upbringing once they were settled back into their original or adoptive families, but I shiver to think of the others who may have not faired so well.


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## RadishRose (Nov 21, 2020)

So sorry it hurts so much, @Murrmurr !


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## peramangkelder (Nov 21, 2020)

@Murrmurr what happened to you and Collin is wrong and unfortunately you and he will always carry the scars
I know nothing anyone can say will make up for the loss felt by both of you....but
know this that you gave Collin the best start in life anyone could wish for so well done 
Thank you for sharing this most painful episode in your life/lives


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

Devi said:


> They're certainly not looking at the whole picture.


I think you're right and that's what angers me. And I don't think this is an isolated case, I don't think it's rare for the court to rip little kids from the only homes and parents they've known. The court says specifically that their decisions are based on what is in the best interest of the child but I think their priority is to reunite families, period. Those two things don't always go hand in hand.


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## MarciKS (Nov 21, 2020)




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## Ruthanne (Nov 21, 2020)

I read your full story and it is so sad you had to lose him.  You did a very wonderful thing by raising him properly and lovingly until he was 3.  It seems no good deed goes unpunished in this world.  I feel for you.  It must be so difficult.  I don't blame you for not wanting to do it again knowing what happens in the end.  Much peace to you.


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## hollydolly (Nov 21, 2020)




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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> I read your full story and it is so sad you had to lose him.  You did a very wonderful thing by raising him properly and lovingly until he was 3.  It seems no good deed goes unpunished in this world.  I feel for you.  It must be so difficult.  I don't blame you for not wanting to do it again knowing what happens in the end.  Much peace to you.


Thank you. The thing is, sure his mother stopped using drugs but she hasn't changed. She's still the same person with the same angers and fears and the resulting hatred. The reason I stopped allowing visits here is because she was stealing stuff while she was here. And she's good at it, obviously. And she lies and manipulates. So what kind of person is Collin going to grow up to be? Kills me to think about it, to imagine it.


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## Devi (Nov 21, 2020)

I see what you're saying. There's also the chance that he sees and disagrees with what she's doing -- and doesn't go down that path. That could happen regardless of age.


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## Ruthanne (Nov 21, 2020)

Murrmurr said:


> Thank you. The thing is, sure his mother stopped using drugs but she hasn't changed. She's still the same person with the same angers and fears and the resulting hatred. The reason I stopped allowing visits here is because she was stealing stuff while she was here. And she's good at it, obviously. And she lies and manipulates. So what kind of person is Collin going to grow up to be? Kills me to think about it, to imagine it.


The nerve of her stealing stuff from you--doesn't sound like a good person.  Maybe he will be different from her having had a good start with you--I hope so anyways.


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## Pecos (Nov 21, 2020)

I cannot even begin to imagine the pain you are experiencing.

My heart goes out to you, and to Collin.


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## AnnieA (Nov 21, 2020)

Murrmurr said:


> I think you're right and that's what angers me. And I don't think this is an isolated case, I don't think it's rare for the court to rip little kids from the only homes and parents they've known. The court says specifically that their decisions are based on what is in the best interest of the child but I think their priority is to reunite families, period. Those two things don't always go hand in hand.



 I've heard of a lot of this in the American foster care system.  Handling it in the way they did puts caring people like you off from staying in and the system is the worse for that.  I hope like @Ruthanne  that Colin's start with you will positively impact his life.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

Devi said:


> I see what you're saying. There's also the chance that he sees and disagrees with what she's doing -- and doesn't go down that path. That could happen regardless of age.


Do you think so? I cling to that hope but he's so young and she's so manipulative. And maybe he thinks I did this to him, and maybe she's telling him lies. Seriously man, this is so hard to take.


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## MarciKS (Nov 21, 2020)

I could never deal with being a foster parent. If I fell in love with the kid and they came to take it I'd die.


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## hollydolly (Nov 21, 2020)

Murrmurr said:


> Thank you. The thing is, sure his mother stopped using drugs but she hasn't changed. She's still the same person with the same angers and fears and the resulting hatred. The reason I stopped allowing visits here is because she was stealing stuff while she was here. And she's good at it, obviously. And she lies and manipulates. So what kind of person is Collin going to grow up to be? Kills me to think about it, to imagine it.


The problem is that the mother is likely to lose custody of Colin again at some point, and that little lad will most certainly  be sent to yet another foster parent. I know , I grew up in that system...


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

hollydolly said:


> The problem is that the mother is likely to lose custody of Colin again at some point, and that little lad will most certainly  be sent to yet another foster parent. I know , I grew up in that system...


And she lives in another county, so yeah that's what would happen.

Jeez, Hollydolly, I'm sad for you too. What a hard life that must have been. (glad you didn't go into detail tho. I don't think my heart could take it right now. but at a later time tho. I'd def read it.)


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I could never deal with being a foster parent. If I fell in love with the kid and they came to take it I'd die.


That's what it feels like.


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## MarciKS (Nov 21, 2020)

Wish there was something I could say to comfort you. I'm sorry you have to go through this.


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## Gary O' (Nov 21, 2020)

Murrmurr said:


> The court says specifically that their decisions are based on what is in the best interest of the child but I think their priority is to reunite families, period. Those two things don't always go hand in hand.


Man, that's so hard

Will *you* get visitation rights?


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Wish there was something I could say to comfort you. I'm sorry you have to go through this.


No, no, you said it. And thank you for that.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> Man, that's so hard
> 
> Will *you* get visitation rights?


That's entirely up to her, so guess what? 

The courts are very generous to these wayward parents. That generosity would be much better placed by investing in real serious mental health therapy for the parents, with real PhD psychologists to examine deeply the problems that got them into drugs and whatever in the first place. That would be money well-spent.


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## win231 (Nov 21, 2020)

Sound much like our pathetic justice system.  The child's "mother" probably found out she could get more welfare money if she had the child.  And when she starts using again (like most drug addicts do), she may get tired of the kid & get rid of him - one of those _"I forgot he was in the back seat on a 100-degree day" accidents."_


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 21, 2020)

Foster care is hard and I am sorry this happened to you.  The social workers should have had the brains to move the baby when they saw how attached you were becoming or your social worker should have warned you.

I did foster care for around 30 years.  Infants through teenagers.  It’s always hard, but they always leave.  The young ones, the baby will forget you.  You will become a vague memory.  Hard to hear, but hopefully it will bring you some comfort, even though you won’t forget him.

It is this way because children want to be with their biological parents.  When they turn 18 they search for them.  My son with Down Syndrome, who we adopted out of the ICU, knows he’s adopted and asks about his bio parents.  Children want the biological connection.  All adoptions are now open adoptions for the most part, if the bio parents are alive, they get access.

My daughter is raising her granddaughter.  My daughter adopted her daughter when she was 15.  When her daughter turned 18 she left to find her bio mother.  The woman who raised her in a tent, next to a stream, and never sent her to school.  Yup, that’s what she preferred.

Got hooked up with a guy, got pregnant, and the guy called my daughter to come get her kid, and her granddaughter, he was tired of them.  She got them.  They all move.  Daughter hooks up with another guy, runs off, taking baby.  Guy takes off, tired of her.  Long story on what happened, but child services calls my daughter one night says come get your daughter and her baby by midnight or we are taking the baby.

Daughter and husband race the clock, barely making it in time.  Fast forward.  Granddaughter moves out, leaving baby with her adoptive mother.  My adoptive granddaughter wanted to give her baby to her biological mother.    She is blocked from doing so by the court and will go to jail if she attempts to remove the baby from my daughter.  Sorry this is long.

My daughter and her husband in their late forties, are raising the baby who is not in foster care, and who they do not custody of, the baby is in a legal crack.  Baby’s mother has not been seen in 4 months.  Baby’s father has never been seen since baby was 4 weeks.  Social service is non committal and non supportive and has not taken custody of the baby who will soon be three years old.  She calls her grandparents mom and dad.  She calls us her grandparents.

My daughter and her husband have hired an adoption attorney for them, a lawyer for the baby, and private investigator to find baby daddy and interact with social service.  They sold a car to help pay for expenses.  The mother, their adoptive daughter, has signed the baby over.  Non supportive baby daddy, who has 3 kids all my different mothers, refuses to do so.

My great granddaughter remains fallen though the crack.  What happened to you is, sorry to say, typical even for people related to the baby.  You are wise not to take any more children.  (My daughter did foster care for 10 years.)


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## Tish (Nov 21, 2020)

@Murrmurr I am so sorry for the pain and heartbreak you are both feeling right now.


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## Gary O' (Nov 21, 2020)

win231 said:


> The child's "mother" probably found out she could get more welfare money if she had the child. And when she starts using again (like most drug addicts do), she may get tired of the kid & get rid of him


More'n likely
However, she may wish to keep custody of Collin ($$$$)

I'd at least keep track thru CSD...and prepare/lobby for adoption

I give it a few months, max


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Foster care is hard and I am sorry this happened to you.  The social workers should have had the brains to move the baby when they saw how attached you were becoming or your social worker should have warned you.
> 
> I did foster care for around 30 years.  Infants through teenagers.  It’s always hard, but they always leave.  The young ones, the baby will forget you.  You will become a vague memory.  Hard to hear, but hopefully it will bring you some comfort, even though you won’t forget him.
> 
> ...


What a freaking mess! It's awful that you've got that going on in your life.

I totally get that kids want to know who their parents are and hope to connect with them and have a relationship with them. I know they fantasize about it and romanticize the idea of it. I would have let Collin know his mom. I think it's important.

My kids' mother left us when the youngest, our daughter, wasn't even a year old yet, and I didn't hear from her for three years when, out of the blue one day, the wife's boyfriend brought her to my house to see the kids. She apologized profusely and asked if she could be involved in their lives and all that. I told her that'd be fine. The boyfriend struck me as a decent guy, and I'm a pretty good judge of character. And, yes, I felt the kids should get to know their mom and let her be a mom.

I let the kids spend occasional weekends with her and her boyfriend, invited them to Christmas dinner that year, the bf would drop by on the kids' birthdays. And that was cool until my (by then ex-)wife just up and left her bf. He came to my house crying about it and told the kids he'd try to find her and all this crap. But that was the last time we heard from him, and then one day about 7 or 8 months later I was contacted by state police who informed me the kids' mother was killed in a car accident 3 months earlier. I had to tell the kids, of course, and that's when they told me that weekends with mom weren't really all that great bc she was drunk most of the time. They went so they could hang out with her boyfriend, whom they described as an awesome dude. I wish they'd have told me about her drinking, but still, I believe I did the right thing.

What a messed up world sometimes, am I right?


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## PopsnTuff (Nov 21, 2020)

win231 said:


> Sound much like our pathetic justice system.  The child's "mother" probably found out she could get more welfare money if she had the child.  And when she starts using again (like most drug addicts do), she may get tired of the kid & get rid of him - one of those _"I forgot he was in the back seat on a 100-degree day" accidents."_


This is reality here, sadly....and she will probably relapse over and over again, never work, and suck as much outta the system with welfare monies and food assistance as she can


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

Oh, and also, Aneeda, his social worker tried very hard to keep him with me and thought she had a good case when it went to trial. She started talking to me about the adoption process soon after Collin's second birthday. Maybe she shouldn't have gotten my hopes up, though. I don't doubt that the judge had made his decision before he sat at the bench.


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## PopsnTuff (Nov 21, 2020)

@Murrmurr I am so sorry for everything you've been thru especially when you invested so much of your heart and soul into Collin, then having him taken away and the past events with your ex-wife.....try to think of the good memories and dismiss the bad ones when you can.....


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> More'n likely
> However, she may wish to keep custody of Collin ($$$$)
> 
> I'd at least keep track thru CSD...and prepare/lobby for adoption
> ...


There is a positive: the mother will be monitored for 6 months. That will include unannounced home inspections and drug tests as well as looking Collin over for any bruises and whatnot. She can't miss any of his regular medical and dental check ups and all that, too. She's not the type who would hurt him physically. But she'll no doubt have boyfriends.


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## Gary O' (Nov 21, 2020)

Murrmurr said:


> There is a positive: the mother will be monitored for 6 months. That will include unannounced home inspections and drug tests as well as looking Collin over for any bruises and whatnot. She can't miss any of his regular medical and dental check ups and all that, too.


I've been around these situations
Seldom...rarely does the parent succeed 
I'm thinking you have a great chance of adoption

Hang in there, Pard


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## Murrmurr (Nov 21, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> I've been around these situations
> Seldom...rarely does the parent succeed
> I'm thinking you have a great chance of adoption
> 
> Hang in there, Pard


Man, that would be so awesome.
Thanks, Gary, I will.


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## officerripley (Nov 21, 2020)

I chimed in here late but oh, man, @Murrmurr, I am so sorry, so sorry. Oh, our court system sometimes!  Anyway, hugs to you and I hope Gary is right; if I ran the Universe that little boy would be yours for sure!


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## Millyd (Nov 21, 2020)

I’d say the poor child wouldn’t have a chance of leading a normal life of love and care unless he is returned to his loving caring “dad” @Murrmurr lets hope for the child’s sake that happens...way to many children are returned to their family’s by the Australian family services  only for the child to be abused / neglected / killed by the parent


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 22, 2020)

Murrmurr said:


> Oh, and also, Aneeda, his social worker tried very hard to keep him with me and thought she had a good case when it went to trial. She started talking to me about the adoption process soon after Collin's second birthday. Maybe she shouldn't have gotten my hopes up, though. I don't doubt that the judge had made his decision before he sat at the bench.


He did, the judge, I am sure.  I saw it happen so many times.  Foster parents learn that no matter how long they have a child, that child will leave someday.  Some time you have them for 2/3 days, sometimes as you did, for years.  But they always leave.

The comfort for you is he had a great beginning.  Something he would not have had otherwise.  This is why foster parents stay as foster parents.  They put aside their own feelings to give a infant/young child a good healthy start.

They give the older children hope that the world can be a different place with safety and security and the ability to learn and grow.  Keep that in mind.  You did a wonderful thing for that boy.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 22, 2020)

Millyd said:


> I’d say the poor child wouldn’t have a chance of leading a normal life of love and care unless he is returned to his loving caring “dad” @Murrmurr lets hope for the child’s sake that happens...way to many children are returned to their family’s by the Australian family services  only for the child to be abused / neglected / killed by the parent


I am sorry @Murrmurr but my advice would be to not hold out hope of getting him back.  Once the case is closed, your chances will be slim to none.  You will fade into the background.  But, if you really want him back, here are suggestions.

Keep your foster care license up to date and be licensed for 2 children.  Take another child and leave the other slot open for Collin in case he returns to the system.  You must keep yourself known to the agency and be in good favor with them.  Build a good rep.

Occasionally mention to your social worker that you would take him back, but don’t press, and don’t do this very often.  It has to be “like remember that kid I used to have, how’s he doing now” sort of thing.  Oh, he’s back in the system?  I have an opening.  Only bring up adoption if the worker does.

Remember he will be a different kid if he comes back due to his experiences without you.  It would be like starting over.  It will take patience and heartache.  You might not want to go through it.  But I wish you luck.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 22, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I am sorry @Murrmurr but my advice would be to not hold out hope of getting him back.  Once the case is closed, your chances will be slim to none.  You will fade into the background.  But, if you really want him back, here are suggestions.
> 
> Keep your foster care license up to date and be licensed for 2 children.  Take another child and leave the other slot open for Collin in case he returns to the system.  You must keep yourself known to the agency and be in good favor with them.  Build a good rep.
> 
> ...


I've been thinking about contacting his new worker - new bc Collin and his mother now live in a different county. (And the worker he had here told me she's so heartbroken and exhausted over Collin's case, or specifically, the results of the custody trial that she took an extended leave.) My current license is good all over the state and I'm actually about 8 hours ahead on the courses right now, which thankfully get rolled over to the next year (12 hrs are required annually), but still I wonder if it's cool for me to contact her to ask how he's doing and stuff; would you happen to know?

I could feel collected enough to take another child, especially after reading all these responses - the moral support, comments that made me think really hard about the whole situation, and advice like yours - maybe in another couple of weeks, maybe sooner than that. I don't agree with the way the system works but I can focus on the positive stuff it does for the kids and the reason why I did it in the first place.

It's just so unjust that a kid has a lifetime (small as it may be) of the love and attention every kid needs and then is suddenly jerked out of that situation and plopped into one where those things may not exist or even worse, one where they have to cope with some pretty awful stuff.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 22, 2020)

Also remember to keep your license current to his age plus 2 years.  So he’s three, you want to be licensed for children up to age 5.  But, I can’t stress this enough, he will not be the same happy guy you had.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 22, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Also remember to keep your license current to his age plus 2 years.  So he’s three, you want to be licensed for children up to age 5.  But, I can’t stress this enough, he will not be the same happy guy you had.


And I wonder how he could trust me after this. It must feel to him that I had a hand in it just like I had a hand in everything else; I was daddy, I was in control, I made things happen.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 22, 2020)

Murrmurr said:


> I've been thinking about contacting his new worker - new bc Collin and his mother now live in a different county. (And the worker he had here told me she's so heartbroken and exhausted over Collin's case, or specifically, the results of the custody trial that she took an extended leave.) My current license is good all over the state and I'm actually about 8 hours ahead on the courses right now, which thankfully get rolled over to the next year (12 hrs are required annually), but still I wonder if it's cool for me to contact her to ask how he's doing and stuff; would you happen to know?
> 
> I could feel collected enough to take another child, especially after reading all these responses - the moral support, comments that made me think really hard about the whole situation, and advice like yours - maybe in another couple of weeks, maybe sooner than that. I don't agree with the way the system works but I can focus on the positive stuff it does for the kids and the reason why I did it in the first place.
> 
> It's just so unjust that a kid has a lifetime (small as it may be) of the love and attention every kid needs and then is suddenly jerked out of that situation and plopped into one where those things may not exist or even worse, one where they have to cope with some pretty awful stuff.


None of us agree with the system.  If he’s been transfer to another county, my opinion is don’t ask that social worker.  She doesn’t know you.  Social workers are under a lot of stress and are overworked.  Since you wanted to adopt him, you could spook her.

She might think he’s in danger of you taking him.  A huge concern and then you are finished, totally finished.  You have to be very careful. You are simply concerned as a good foster parent, not a crazy want to be adoptive parent whose child was ripped away unfairly.

IMO, Always ask YOUR social worker about stuff, she might get upset if you go around her.  She is there for you.  She can ask the other worker.  Make sure she and everyone understands you accept he has returned to his bio mother.

It also depends on the timing.  At three years of age, it will take at least 4-6 months for him to adjust to his new situation.  The honeymoon period can last about 2-3 months even for kids as young as he is.  Course, the under 2 group really freak out and it takes longer for them after the shock wears off.

I would wait at least a month to check on him.  Or, you could ask when you get the new placement.  Make it casual, oh by the way, how is collin doing?  I still think about him.  He was my first foster.  You know-caring, concerned, but not overbearing or demanding.

I think you should get another placement.  When you help someone else, you help yourself.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 22, 2020)

Murrmurr said:


> And I wonder how he could trust me after this. It must feel to him that I had a hand in it just like I had a hand in everything else; I was daddy, I was in control, I made things happen.


And he’s three years old.  Don’t overthink it.  Daddy didn’t do this.  The social worker took him.  He knows that, later as he ages, it gets much more complicated.

How will any older foster trust you?  You give them safety, food, clothing, love, and your time.  You would think that would be enough.  It won’t  be.  It will never be enough.  Foster kids get really wise, really fast.  They have learned they cannot trust their parents, their teachers, their social workers, the courts, and the system.  They are right, they can’t.

Don’t kid yourself, you can’t be trusted, trust me on this.  The first time a 10 year old comes at you with a knife, they are gone.  Or they rape your child.  Or they try to kill your child, or they kill your dog.  It’s endless.  These are very damaged children who can do a lot of damage.

You had an infant, easy.  It gets very very hard depending on the children.  I had children that were crazy and dangerous.  I had a 12 year old sex offender, who tried to strange two other children, and when placed in youth service for a time out, well, he set fire to the building.

He was a really cute kid.  Really needy.  Really lovable, except when he was not.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 22, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> And he’s three years old.  Don’t overthink it.  Daddy didn’t do this.  The social worker took him.  He knows that, later as he ages, it gets much more complicated.
> 
> How will any older foster trust you?  You give them safety, food, clothing, love, and your time.  You would think that would be enough.  It won’t  be.  It will never be enough.  Foster kids get really wise, really fast.  They have learned they cannot trust their parents, their teachers, their social workers, the courts, and the system.  They are right, they can’t.
> 
> ...


I heard some frightening cases while going to the "resource family" classes. And a lot of those really troubled kids - 9 to 12 year olds in the cases we studied - a lot of them seemed devoted to the bio parent. They'd lie to CPS for them, for example, I'm assuming to get *some* form of approval from their parent or to feel accepted by them. That's what will surely happen in Collin's case because for one thing his mother is exceptionally good at manipulation. And a total narcissist in the true clinical sense.

Thank you a ton, Aneeda. Serioustly I so appreciate your help, your obvious concern, and above all your honestly.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 22, 2020)

Murrmurr said:


> I heard some frightening cases while going to the "resource family" classes. And a lot of those really troubled kids - 9 to 12 year olds in the cases we studied - a lot of them seemed devoted to the bio parent. They'd lie to CPS for them, for example, I'm assuming to get *some* form of approval from their parent or to feel accepted by them. That's what will surely happen in Collin's case because for one thing his mother is exceptionally good at manipulation. And a total narcissist in the true clinical sense.
> 
> Thank you a ton, Aneeda. Serioustly I so appreciate your help, your obvious concern, and above all your honestly.


You are so welcome.


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## oldman (Nov 22, 2020)

It’s a terrible thing to lose a child. No matter the reason. When anyone has bonded with a child, that child has become part of your life and your family. Separation disorder is something that I have heard about from my friend way back when. 

While we were flying, his child drowned in their backyard pool. He received the news right after we had landed in Dallas. He wasn’t going to be able to fly after hearing this news, so he caught another flight and went home.

I believe it was several months before he returned to work. He went through some really bad times.


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## StarSong (Nov 22, 2020)

@Murrmurr and @Aneeda72, bless you for the love you've shown to these children.  

However it works out in the long run, please try to remember that loving kindness is never a wasted act.


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## old medic (Nov 22, 2020)

Our best wishes to you... I like Garys advice


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## oldman (Nov 22, 2020)

After reading all of these posts and then writing my post, I had decided to call the fellow I wrote about. I got his answering machine and asked him to call me. I remember how messed up he was, even after he returned to flying. He had to be cleared by the company’s psychiatrist. I worried about him at the time.


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