# British Police: "Save A Life, Surrender Your Knife"



## SifuPhil (Nov 18, 2014)

This isn't a parody - this is real. 







Really? I can kill a person with a pencil, a rolled-up magazine or a screwdriver - should those be banned as well? 

Note especially how the commenter draws attention to the false use of the term "amnesty". 

It's during times like this I'm glad I live in the U.S.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 18, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> It's during times like this I'm glad I live in the U.S.



You and me both Sifu!


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## Bee (Nov 18, 2014)

Just a shame that idiot of a commentator who was just intent on taking the p out of the Lancashire police did not do his homework and research properly.

Several counties in the U.K. over a number of years have held knife amnesty's where thousands of knives have been handed in..........._*In 1995, 40,000 weapons were handed over during a similar amnesty launched after head teacher Philip Lawrence was stabbed to death outside his school in west London. *__*Figures also show in the year following a month-long amnesty in Scotland in 1993, murders fell by 26%, attempted murder 19% and offensive weapons possession by 23%.*_

I have read where in the U.S. people are concerned about gun crime and that is no different to people in the U.K. being concerned about knife crime.


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## drifter (Nov 18, 2014)

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, I reckon. Guns for a little longer distance, knives up close and personal. If you know how to use them, both are deadly. I wouldn't want to hand "in either one. I like guns, have guns. I love good knives, have knives.


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## Don M. (Nov 18, 2014)

*I'll turn in my weapons just as soon as the authorities figure out a foolproof way to get guns out of the hands of the criminals.  Besides, most of the gun deaths in the US take place in the inner cities among warring factions of the various drug and street gangs.  If I could be sure that weapons would only be used among these scum bags, I would give them a couple.  

Vehicle accidents kill far more people than guns...cell phone users are becoming more dangerous than drunk drivers....should we outlaw cell phones and cars?

Medical mistakes by doctors kill 10 times more people each year than guns....maybe we should boycott doctors.  *


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 18, 2014)

I wouldn't turn in any guns or knives either, I agree with Don, most of the crime is done by criminals and gangs, who get their guns off the streets.  Criminals won't be turning in their weapons, and law abiding citizens shouldn't either.


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## Warrigal (Nov 18, 2014)

> Really? I can kill a person with a pencil, a rolled-up magazine or a screwdriver - should those be banned as well?


No, but perhaps you should be banned on the grounds that you are a very dangerous person. :eek1:


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## Bee (Nov 18, 2014)

I think it should be acceptable on here, that the U.K. and the U.S have an entirely different approach to crime and the ways to reduce crimes, what we don't need in the U.K. is for that commentator to call those marchers idiots when clearly he is the idiot for picking on and taking the p on one particular counties police force when he hasn't done his homework to know that this isn't the first or only county to hold a knife amnesty over the years.


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## hollydolly (Nov 19, 2014)

Well said Bee, I entirely agree!!


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## Pam (Nov 19, 2014)

Yes, well said, Bee! Calling people idiots for marching down the street is not good reporting, especially when several of those marching have lost loved ones due to knife crime.




SeaBreeze said:


> I wouldn't turn in any guns or knives either, I agree with Don, most of the crime is done by criminals and gangs, who get their guns off the streets._*  Criminals won't be turning in their weapons, and law abiding citizens shouldn't either.*_



They are _*not*_ asking for law abiding citizens in the UK to hand in any knives they may have.  This campaign is about collecting knives from young people/gang members on the street. 10,000 knives have been handed in in London. So, it would appear that some criminals/gang/ex gang members have actually turned their weapons in.


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## Laurie (Nov 19, 2014)

I think the basic culture is different in the UK.

Once duelling went out of fashion there was never any need to carry a firearm or cold steel in the UK, but the US is different.

Ignoring your gun culture for the purpose of this argument, that is entirely your own affair and no business of anybody else, the trapper/frontiersman image is still very much part of your culture, and most of you think you could skin a buffalo  without too much trouble.  Over here just the thought of gralloching a deer would turn most people's stomachs!

Put an American down in a forest and he would immediately start trying to remember all those things about building a fire, while she would go looking for water.  Do the same with a Brit and they would climb a tree looking for a mobile phone signal!


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 19, 2014)

Hmmm, I had a switchblade as a youth and wouldn't have turned in as it cost me a pretty penny and it was required in those days just like suede shoes...


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## SifuPhil (Nov 19, 2014)

I agree that our respective cultures, hence our protective measures, are going to differ. What I have a problem with is the use of the term "amnesty". 

*Amnesty: *

         An undertaking by the authorities to take no action against specified offenses or offenders during a fixed period: _a month-long weapons amnesty_ 

~Oxford Dictionaries

Am I correct in assuming that possession of a knife (a "pointy" one, as if there were any other kind) in the UK is NOT presently against the law? If so, then it is impossible to grant an amnesty, since that action can only be taken against an illegal thing. By the use of that term they are conditioning the populace to accept that knives are illegal, *even though they are not. *Hence, the use of the term "false flag operation".

I believe that was the main argument of the commentator. Yes, he was snide and a bit histrionic, but he brought up the interesting point of criminals not being likely to turn in their weapons - I think in that regard he had a good point. 

As for the crime stats decreasing - correlation is not necessarily causation. Perhaps the bad guys were just on holiday during the data-gathering.


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## Bee (Nov 19, 2014)

Amnesty _*is*_ the correct word used...the following is a link to the CPS ( Crown Prosecution Service), there are several more links you can click onto and learn about our law admittedly a little confusing at times...http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/#a10

Also from one of the links..........Section 1A of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 makes it an offence to unlawfully and intentionally threaten another person with an offensve weapon in a public place, in such a way that there is an immediate risk of serious physical harm to that other person.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 19, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> This isn't a parody - this is real.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yea, I'm much rather get gunned down.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 19, 2014)

Bee said:


> Just a shame that idiot of a commentator who was just intent on taking the p out of the Lancashire police did not do his homework and research properly.
> 
> Several counties in the U.K. over a number of years have held knife amnesty's where thousands of knives have been handed in..........._*In 1995, 40,000 weapons were handed over during a similar amnesty launched after head teacher Philip Lawrence was stabbed to death outside his school in west London. *__*Figures also show in the year following a month-long amnesty in Scotland in 1993, murders fell by 26%, attempted murder 19% and offensive weapons possession by 23%.*_
> 
> I have read where in the U.S. people are concerned about gun crime and that is no different to people in the U.K. being concerned about knife crime.



The difference is in the US you and dozens others can get killed by an automatic weapon in a few minutes.  A bit more difficult with a knife.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 19, 2014)

Bee said:


> Amnesty _*is*_ the correct word used...the following is a link to the CPS ( Crown Prosecution Service), there are several more links you can click onto and learn about our law admittedly a little confusing at times...http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/#a10



VERY confusing ...



> It is illegal to:
> 
> 
> sell a knife of any kind (including cutlery and kitchen knives) to anyone under 18
> ...


Source: Gov.uk


Who are the arbiters of "good reason"? Isn't self-defense a good enough reason? 

Blades 3" or less can still be used in a deadly fashion.

Lock knives ARE folding knives - _in addition_, they lock. Otherwise you cut your own fingers when the blade slips back.

I'm sorry but your knife laws are screwy, although to be honest the different State laws over here are no picnic either. layful: 



> Also from one of the links..........Section 1A of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 makes it an offence to unlawfully and intentionally threaten another person with an offensve weapon in a public place, in such a way that there is an immediate risk of serious physical harm to that other person.



Yes, I totally agree with that law, but once again, having honest people turn in their knives isn't going to stop the bad guys from keeping theirs. It's a Utopian view of society that won't work. It's similar to our own "Turn in your guns" routines - only the honest people, the ones who wouldn't use them on another person, turn them in. 

The bad guys laugh and reload.

And back to "amnesty" - are they defining what knives are to be turned in? Are they specifying the over-3" knives, and the lock blades? Or are they leaving it all open, hoping nobody reads the laws?


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## Laurie (Nov 19, 2014)

The bottom line is that there is no need for most people to carry a knife in the UK, and if you have one nefarious intent is assumed, therefore the need for a "no questions asked" amnesty.

Even for allowed exceptions, like fishermen, gamekeepers and the like, the knife can only be carried on the person, or close to hand when actually doing the job.

You can keep a knife in the boot (trunk) of your car, but not in the glove compartment or door pocket.

Self defence is not a defence.

You must remember that in the UK it is an offence to "go equipped" i.e. to have implements which may assist in the commission of a crime, and this could be anything from a screwdriver, a bottle of ammonia  to an ATM skimming device, and is is an offence to be in possession of an "offensive weapon" and this could be anything from a screwdriver, a baseball bat, a tyre lever, a wheelwrench, a pool cue,or perhaps a chain.

The decision as to whether a particular item is being carried for "offensive" purposes is down to the individual copper and it is up to you to convince him/her that you need it for legitimate purposes.

You are the ones that live in the "Land of the Free" not us!


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 19, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> No, but perhaps you should be banned on the grounds that you are a very dangerous person. :eek1:



I disagree with calling someone a dangerous person, who is just intelligent and capable of protecting himself/inflicting harm on another if necessary as self-defense, without having to depend on customary "weapons" or a government nanny.  There should be more "dangerous" people like SifuPhil in this world, it would be a much better place for all of us.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 19, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> No, but perhaps you should be banned on the grounds that you are a very dangerous person. :eek1:



That's the plan of our government ...

For myself, I don't need people to respect me - just to fear me. 



Laurie said:


> The bottom line is that there is no need for most people to carry a knife in the UK, and if you have one nefarious intent is assumed, therefore the need for a "no questions asked" amnesty.



Assumed guilty, eh? I forgot for a moment that much of our U.S. law comes from the UK. 



> Self defence is not a defence.



So to be fully compliant with the law I would need to be stabbed to death? 



> You must remember that in the UK it is an offence to "go equipped" i.e. to have implements which may assist in the commission of a crime, and this could be anything from a screwdriver, a bottle of ammonia  to an ATM skimming device, and is is an offence to be in possession of an "offensive weapon" and this could be anything from a screwdriver, a baseball bat, a tyre lever, a wheelwrench, a pool cue,or perhaps a chain.
> 
> The decision as to whether a particular item is being carried for "offensive" purposes is down to the individual copper and it is up to you to convince him/her that you need it for legitimate purposes.



Wow, talk about "guilty until proven innocent"! 

Do you not see the fatal flaw in that law? 

As I mentioned earlier, I've been trained to view any environment I find myself in as a potential arsenal. While the majority of people will look at the pretty paintings in the museum or the handsome flower arrangement on the table in the restaurant, I'm looking at fire exits and potential improvised weapons. That's just how I was trained and how I've lived my life. 

In your country I'd probably be locked up within 10 minutes of touching down at the airport.



> You are the ones that live in the "Land of the Free" not us!



It certainly_ seems_ that way! 



SeaBreeze said:


> I disagree with calling someone a dangerous person, who is just intelligent and capable of protecting himself/inflicting harm on another if necessary as self-defense, without having to depend on customary "weapons" or a government nanny.  There should be more "dangerous" people like SifuPhil in this world, it would be a much better place for all of us.



Aww, thank you, Sea!

Your name has been placed on my list of "Those Who Will Be Spared During The Great Purge".


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## Warrigal (Nov 19, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> For myself, I don't need people to respect me - just to fear me.


See, SeaBreeze, I was right. He is dangerous.

Now where is that tongue-in-cheek smiley? 
Never mind. I think I've found it.

:tongue:

Being serious for the moment, I agree with the UK approach of making it an offence to "go equipped" with whatever implements are likely to be used in the commission of a crime. Sawn off shotties come to mind, especially when accompanied by balaclavas. Try explaining that combination to the police as hunting equipment.


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## Ina (Nov 19, 2014)

SifuPhil's a pirate, don't you know? :wave:


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## Warrigal (Nov 19, 2014)

Not all pirates are made in the image of Johnny Depp.







Most were much more dangerous. For example Edward Teach (Blackbeard)


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## Ina (Nov 19, 2014)

I never was a fan of Jonny Depp.

But I'v read some stories of the pirate Teach.


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## Don M. (Nov 19, 2014)

It is always wise to remember the saying..."When Danger is Only Seconds away, the Police are Only Minutes Away".  That applies in the U.S. probably more so than in the UK, Europe, and Australia.  Here we have millions of career criminals walking the streets, between arrests, and huge numbers of Black and Latino drug and street gang members that are turning ever larger sections of our major cities into zones of anarchy. 

However, the people of Europe may one day have to rethink the disarming of their citizens as the Muslim fanatics continue to invade that area of the globe, and attempt to force Sharia Law on the existing populations.  Some of the "Imams" are predicting that England will become an Islamic state during the latter half of this century.  Already, it appears that the UK is supplying substantial manpower to the ISIS fanatics in Iraq/Syria.


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## Denise1952 (Nov 19, 2014)

Geez, knives are tools mostly, aren't they?  I mean to eat with, to cut up chicken and clean fish, and any sort of hunting, artwork where you carve wood etc.?  I guess if they want to ban knives they have to be really specific what type?  Or it's legal to use knives for this, this and this.  I probably missed something on the thread, but the whole thing seemed confusing, like, is this a joke.

I'll read it further tomorrow, I'm tired tonight, just downloading a christmas movie, LOL, I know I know, but I love christmas


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## Warrigal (Nov 19, 2014)

Denise, I do think it reasonable for the police to assume that if someone has a cut throat razor tucked into his boots then he is more than likely intending to harm someone rather than give himself a close shave. I like it that they can take it away from him unless he can offer a very good explanation. 

Similarly, someone with a machete in his hand on the forecourt of the Sydney Opera House is probably not a member of the orchestra and may be planning to use it in a nasty way. A plea of self defence from gangsters and muggers will not cut any ice with the constabulary.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 20, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> See, SeaBreeze, I was right. He is dangerous.



I'm only dangerous to those who seek to harm me or mine. Is that so wrong? 



> Being serious for the moment, I agree with the UK approach of making it an offence to "go equipped" with whatever implements are likely to be used in the commission of a crime. Sawn off shotties come to mind, especially when accompanied by balaclavas. Try explaining that combination to the police as hunting equipment.



But there's the rub: the police have been given the power of assumption, a very dangerous element in the formation of a totalitarian state. 

Am I to assume that they are trained in mind reading? That they will automatically nay-say my self-defense plea? It sure sounds like it. No longer am I innocent until proven guilty - now I'm automatically a bad guy because I choose to posses a certain implement, much as Lord Baden-Powell urged every Boy Scout. 

And it IS an implement. Unlike guns it has uses other than the taking of lives. In effect, the police would now be profiling me.

Good luck living under your new masters. 



			
				Ina said:
			
		

> SifuPhil's a pirate, don't you know?



Not all pirates are bad. Many of the horror stories ascribed to them were created either by the public or themselves (like Edward Teach), in order to eliminate competition. In fact, many got their beginnings in the Royal Navy - talk about irony! After their official plundering seals of approval expired they had no choice but to become free-lancers. So it can be said that they were government trained and sponsored ...

Hmm ... government-sponsored terrorism. Why does that sound so familiar? 



			
				Don M said:
			
		

> "When Danger is Only Seconds away, the Police are Only Minutes Away"



How very true, Don, as well as the rest of your post. 



			
				nwlady said:
			
		

> Geez, knives are tools mostly, aren't they?



Yes they are, unless you're a member of certain Hindu sects that sleep with them (Gurkhas come to mind). How else could you carve the initials of your girlfriend in a tree? How else do you clean under your fingernails?

"Honest, officer - I'm on my way to the Mumblety-Peg tournament!" 



			
				Dame Warrigal said:
			
		

> Denise, I do think it reasonable for the police to assume that if  someone has a cut throat razor tucked into his boots then he is more  than likely intending to harm someone rather than give himself a close  shave.



An extravagant example, as is the Opera House one.  Your trust in the constabulary is touching, but I think misguided.

Who watches the watchers? 

Again, every Boy Scout is admonished to carry a knife in order to "be prepared". Shall all Boy Scouts then be deemed terrorists and tossed in the hoosegow?


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## Bee (Nov 20, 2014)

Don M. said:


> It is always wise to remember the saying..."When Danger is Only Seconds away, the Police are Only Minutes Away".  That applies in the U.S. probably more so than in the UK, Europe, and Australia.  Here we have millions of career criminals walking the streets, between arrests, and huge numbers of Black and Latino drug and street gang members that are turning ever larger sections of our major cities into zones of anarchy.
> 
> However, the people of Europe may one day have to rethink the disarming of their citizens as the Muslim fanatics continue to invade that area of the globe, and attempt to force Sharia Law on the existing populations.  Some of the "Imams" are predicting that England will become an Islamic state during the latter half of this century.  Already, _*it appears that the UK is supplying substantial manpower to the ISIS fanatics in Iraq/Syria.*_






Supplying eh!?? do you think the U.K. is contacting ISIS and telling them we can _*supply *_manpower???...................thanks for starting my day off with a laugh.


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## Bee (Nov 20, 2014)

*
Phil *for all you trying to critisise the U.K. police and U.K. laws and thinking you are 'clever' with it, I feel a damn site safer living in my country  than what I ever would living in your country........................my last word on this, I really can't be bothered any more.


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## Warrigal (Nov 20, 2014)

Phil, over here boy scouts don't have to carry knives unless you mean the one in their mess kit or the Swiss army knife in their back pack. If you have read earlier posts they would have no problem with the police. 

As for this 





> That they will automatically nay-say my self-defense plea?


In my country and in the UK, yes, they would automatically ignore your self defence plea because it is invalid.

And I have to disagree with Bee because when I was roaming around your country I felt perfectly safe without the benefit of any deadly weapons at all about my person. Not even a Crocodile Dundee knife to fall back on. The exception was the sentries outside some military establishments. They were very smartly dressed but their manner was very intimidating. 

Ours are much friendlier, just like a favourite uncle. The pistol in their holster seems more ornamental than threatening. You can say "G'day mate" and have a joke while the sign you in. 

I do trust the police over here. They are not storm troopers at all.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 20, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Phil, over here boy scouts don't have to carry knives unless you mean the one in their mess kit or the Swiss army knife in their back pack. If you have read earlier posts they would have no problem with the police.



So they get a special exemption? Interesting.




> In my country and in the UK, yes, they would automatically ignore your self defence plea because it is invalid.



Now THAT is amazing - that I do not have a right to defend myself. 



> And I have to disagree with Bee because when I was roaming around your country I felt perfectly safe without the benefit of any deadly weapons at all about my person. Not even a Crocodile Dundee knife to fall back on. The exception was the sentries outside some military establishments. They were very smartly dressed but their manner was very intimidating.



I'm glad you felt safe. I can't help but wonder if you also visited some of our more "challenging" neighborhoods, the ones with steel doors in front and metal shutters over the windows. Those are the kinds of places I have in mind.



> Ours are much friendlier, just like a favourite uncle. The pistol in their holster seems more ornamental than threatening. You can say "G'day mate" and have a joke while the sign you in.



I wouldn't try that with the SAS, though ... 



> I do trust the police over here. They are not storm troopers at all.



Then you are lucky, because more and more ours seem to be turning into just that.


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## Laurie (Nov 20, 2014)

"Assumed guilty, eh? I forgot for a moment that much of our U.S. law comes from the UK. "

Of course assumed guilty.  It's against the law to carry a knife.  If you carry one you're guilty of an offence.  What's the big deal?

"So to be fully compliant with the law I would need to be stabbed to death? "

No, but you must not defend yourself with something specifically carried for that purpose ( and,ladies, that includes a pepper spray in the handbag!)

"Wow, talk about "guilty until proven innocent"! 

Do you not see the fatal flaw in that law? "

Works reasonably well in practice.  If you are found in somebody's yard at 2 in the afternoon with a ladder you'll be given the benefit if the doubt if you have a bucket of water and a chamois leather.

If you are found there at 2 in morning with a ladder and no bucket you won't be!

Of course there's a fatal flaw in that law, but that's the law, and I either abide by it or change it. 


"That's just how I was trained and how I've lived my life. "

So have I, and if you'd ever seen how quickly people look up and start edging away when someone puts their bag down at Belfast airport while they look for their ticket you'd realize that it's a way of life for many people, and has been since the 1960s.

We've never had to fight the government for our freedom, so we're not all that bothered by these things.  You, in America, fought hard and long for you freedom and guard it jealously.  

Like I said, it's a different culture!


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## Don M. (Nov 20, 2014)

Bee said:


> Supplying eh!?? do you think the U.K. is contacting ISIS and telling them we can _*supply *_manpower???...................thanks for starting my day off with a laugh.



Perhaps the UK news isn't showing the videos of this Fanatic with a Very British accent holding the knife as he prepares to Behead the next ISIS hostage?????


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## oakapple (Nov 20, 2014)

Nobody should worry about any of Phil's comments; he is our resident nutcase after all.[Self styled.]


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## oakapple (Nov 20, 2014)

We live in very different countries with different laws.Nobody that I know worries about not being able to go out  with a knife hidden about themselves.In London, where there are many ethnic gangs, some teenagers want to carry them for personal safety reasons [they say] so they get hit or kicked by someone, and they whip out their knife and stab them . Result, sometimes in the death of the other boy, and a jail sentence [and a ruined life] for the boy with the knife.That's what the knife amnesty is about, there have been several and it's amazing what awful things have been handed in, machete's, scimitar's etc.


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## Bee (Nov 20, 2014)

Don M. said:


> Perhaps the UK news isn't showing the videos of this Fanatic with a Very British accent holding the knife as he prepares to Behead the next ISIS hostage?????



Of course we have seen the news in the U.K. and we have read all about Jihadi Johnnie............but you obviously didn't get the meaning of my post, it was the fact you used the word _*supply*_ as if the U.K. is purposely sending these people out to help ISIS....................perhaps it is a language barrier.


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## Twixie (Nov 20, 2014)

Don M. said:


> Perhaps the UK news isn't showing the videos of this Fanatic with a Very British accent holding the knife as he prepares to Behead the next ISIS hostage?????



Don..you are confusing ''British' with ''English''...


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## Don M. (Nov 20, 2014)

Yes, British/English, etc., is more a question of "word choice", than anything.  However, if the news reports are correct, there are over 1500 "Europeans" who have migrated to the ISIS battles, and it is just a question of time before they bring some of their newly learned "skills" back to their homelands, and begin a reign of terror in those nations.


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## Twixie (Nov 20, 2014)

Don M. said:


> Yes, British/English, etc., is more a question of "word choice", than anything.  However, if the news reports are correct, there are over 1500 "Europeans" who have migrated to the ISIS battles, and it is just a question of time before they bring some of their newly learned "skills" back to their homelands, and begin a reign of terror in those nations.


Yes..these Europeans are usually from Pakistan..emigrated here..or were born here..but still affected by on-line grooming...


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## Twixie (Nov 20, 2014)

Another hopeless thing that the British Government is proposing is to take their Brit passports away from them..

No matter how bad they are..you cannot leave a person stateless...by law..


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## Denise1952 (Nov 20, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Denise, I do think it reasonable for the police to assume that if someone has a cut throat razor tucked into his boots then he is more than likely intending to harm someone rather than give himself a close shave. I like it that they can take it away from him unless he can offer a very good explanation.
> 
> Similarly, someone with a machete in his hand on the forecourt of the Sydney Opera House is probably not a member of the orchestra and may be planning to use it in a nasty way. A plea of self defence from gangsters and muggers will not cut any ice with the constabulary.



I understand that Dame, I was wondering how they were going to separate out the "types".


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## Don M. (Nov 20, 2014)

If I were European, I would be increasingly concerned about Muslim terrorism....and the ability of these fanatics to move across national borders.  Even here, thousands of miles from these battles, we have to contend with the possibility of Homegrown Terrorism....as witnessed by the Boston Marathon bombing, etc.  It's unfortunate, but we are all faced with increased police intrusion and monitoring of our lives, and it will probably get even worse....because of the constant threat of these senseless acts.


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## Twixie (Nov 20, 2014)

Don't forget that these countries were part of ''The British Empire'' so they have a right to a British passport..


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## Twixie (Nov 20, 2014)

We have lots of Muslims living here in peace...disgusted by what is happening..I wouldn't put them all in the same boat..


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## Denise1952 (Nov 20, 2014)

Can't agree more Twixie, stereotyping is wrong imo.


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## Bee (Nov 20, 2014)

Twixie said:


> We have lots of Muslims living here in peace...disgusted by what is happening..I wouldn't put them all in the same boat..




Yes many more than the public realise, some of whom are in my family.


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## Twixie (Nov 20, 2014)

Really Bee..where are they from originally?

I have Muslims in my family also..from Algeria..It's my hubbies family really..but they are so kind..


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## Warrigal (Nov 20, 2014)

I don't know any Muslims as friends or colleagues but I am in dialogue with a number of young Muslim women on Facebook. Something that I hear often and which frustrates these women is "why don't the moderate Muslims speak out against terrorism?" Being constantly associated with fanaticism is very distressing and alienating. The truth seems to be that the media does not usually give voice to the moderate Muslim voice.

 Here is one occasion that they did : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qasim...ort_b_6162592.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

 And here is another: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/24/muslim-scholars-islamic-state_n_5878038.html

Note that both are from the Huffington Post, one of the few media outlets that actually reports in depth on matters of religion. The ABC in Australia also does but very few people bother to seek out the Religion and Ethics Report. If they did they would find thoughtful articles like this one : http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2014/07/11/4043888.htm

By the way, these young women have welcomed me, a 71 yo Christian, with respect and courtesy and value my input. Together we are building bridges of peace and harmony.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 21, 2014)

History is replete with violence being used in the name of religion...


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## Warrigal (Nov 21, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> History is replete with violence being used in the name of religion...



And also replete with kindness being extended in the name of religion.

Everything associated with humanity is a duality. Good and evil are both sides of every coin that mankind mints.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 21, 2014)

Would the world have been saner and safer without organized religion?  We can't know but methinks it could be so...


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