# The Syrian dilemma



## dbeyat45 (Sep 4, 2013)

Sent to me by an ex-Navy friend in the States .... what's the consensus over there?


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## That Guy (Sep 4, 2013)

Leave Syria to the Syrians.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 4, 2013)

I guess we didn't have enough fun in Afghanistan, huh? 

USA - SuperCop to the Rescue Once Again! 




Idiots ...


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## JustBonee (Sep 4, 2013)

> what's the consensus over there?


I would like to find ONE person who will say, Yes! let's go stick our nose in another country's  business AGAIN.  This crap is getting so old!  
Live and let live .. or in their case .....let the chips fall where they may.  That's a sorry answer, but how I feel about this country being involved in everything on the planet! .. It's not our dilemma - butt out!!


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## Diwundrin (Sep 4, 2013)

I think all of us in the 'Coalition of the Silly' have finally gotten the message.  For all this righteous ranting about the evils of chemical warfare I can't help but wonder if that's the true agenda.  If they were honestly outraged by despots they'd have invaded Zimbabwe.

Has Obama  explained yet how bombing the people he's trying to rescue is logical? At least they're too busy with their own careers to try and sell us that one here at present.   All the talk from the UN and world leaders is of 'teaching a lesson' to despots, bloody expensive lesson if its the civilians who get blown up.  Hope they never feel the need to come in and 'free' us.

Let the Middle East stew in it's own juice.  It's so fractured by religious factions and tribalism over there that it will eventually just descend back to it's normal level, of around 1500 ad, if we simply leave them to their own devices.

It's only oil money that has dragged them up into our faces and gives them any cred.  If the UN wants to bestow peace on the world then it should ban trade, blockade the lot of them,  and implement a barter system of food for oil to cut out the gougers and dry up the money to pay gun runners. They can't feed themselves from the deserts, and they're going to run out of camels right soon as a meat supply when the boatloads of sheep and cattle stop rolling in.  Let 'em keep the ensuing bloodbath 'in house.'

 Too simplistic?  Yeah, guess so.


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## dbeyat45 (Sep 4, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> [ Snip ]
> Too simplistic?  Yeah, guess so.


No.  But you'd never make it as a diplomat.


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## Diwundrin (Sep 4, 2013)

I'll have you know that I graduated with honours from the prestigious Universal Rhino College of Diplomacy so there!


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## SifuPhil (Sep 4, 2013)




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## Diwundrin (Sep 4, 2013)

It's arriiiiiived!  

   That'll be on the wall when I find the hammer. :lofl:


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## Anne (Sep 4, 2013)

Again; I say *why*??   It's way past time we had a president who took care of this country, and listened to the people he's *elected* to take care of, and let these other countried take care of their own problems, without jumping in blindly to 'protect' the people.   It may be beside the point, but who would help us if we were in that position???

Stop giving them money, and any aid, and get some of our jobs back here, before we end up a third-world country ourselves - wait; maybe that's part of the agenda.


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## terra (Sep 4, 2013)

Unwillingness to help kinda reminds me of how blase we've become to other peoples suffering.

Just like when someone is mugged, bashed or something similar in a public street in broad daylight.  Most people turn away,.. do not offer assistance and pretend it's not happening.
  If we all had this "it's not my business" attitude, then it is indeed a terrible world that we live in.


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## Warrigal (Sep 4, 2013)

Terra, for me it's all about how we help.
Bombing, even when it is classed as 'smart' technology, is just heaping terror upon terror in my opinion.
I do think we should have more compassion for those that flee the carnage.
They need all the help we can give them.
Even a fraction of the defence budget would make a huge difference to their quality of life and their future safety.


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## Anne (Sep 4, 2013)

Terra; what I mean is this....if your own family (our country) is going into dire straits, do you help someone in another country first, or do you take care of your own first??
I feel terrible for the citizens who are suffering, but we can't stay strong if we don't have the means to care for our own people...and since we're cutting back on the military budget, how do we look out for ourselves, let alone every other country who has problems??

Surely we must have learned lessons from Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan.  Bombing the citizens, and sending our own over there to be killed just doesn't seem to me to be the answer.  So many of the soldiers who served in Afghanistan have said the people no longer want our presence there.

I don't think we can ever solve the problems in the Middle East - things might settle for awhile, and then it starts all over again.  What *should* we be doing???


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## terra (Sep 4, 2013)

Yeah... I agree.  Just how do we help them ???.... frankly, I don't have the answer to this.

I'm not offering suggestions on how to achieve this.... 
just simply telling you how I feel that innocent civilians,.. including children, are being injured and killed for no good reason.


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## dbeyat45 (Sep 4, 2013)

I guess the definition of "innocent" comes into question.  Our Opposition Leader Tony Abbott described the Syrian conflict as "baddies Vs. baddies" and he's probably right.


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## Diwundrin (Sep 4, 2013)

> Unwillingness to help kinda reminds me of how blase we've become to other peoples suffering.
> 
> Just like when someone is mugged, bashed or something similar in a  public street in broad daylight.  Most people turn away,.. do not offer  assistance and pretend it's not happening.
> If we all had this "it's not my business" attitude, then it is indeed a terrible world that we live in.
> ...



That's just stating the bleedin' obvious Tezza, do think you have the market cornered on mercy? I know you of old and that you are one of nature's gentlemen but please don't view this as an empathy competition. 
Take a moment to appreciate the difference between helping one mugging victim to hospital and coping with thousands of bombing victims with no hospital facilities at all. Wonder at least was it us who bombed them?    Your heart is not wrong, but allowing it to rule only works  on a personal, small scale level.

 I doubt any of us delight in the sight of injured, terrified and starving kids and devastated populations.  That's selling us very short on a personal level and trivializing our reasoning.  
Anguished feelings and thinking kind thoughts won't solve something as complexly clusterf***ed as the Middle East.

There comes a time when platitudes don't cut it any more.  Prayers don't work, the hand of kindness doesn't work either, even Gunboat Diplomacy doesn't work now that the 'natives' have better ordinance to fire back than spears and rocks.

More than the climate is changing on this planet, the whole of human society is in a state of flux and no amount of prayer or explosives will offer the solution.  It's going to be a long hard slog before it finds a natural level again.  The more 'we' try to fix it the more complicated it's getting. 
When you can't tell the goodies from the baddies any more then how do you know when you are aiding the victim and when you're abetting the aggressor??  Isn't that the time when you need to hang up the white hat and take a closer look at things?

Does anybody know who's really doing what to who over there?  I won't even bother to ask why they're doing it,  psychos don't need motives.

 I very much doubt any among us here will ever see 'world peace'....  Hell,  when was there *ever* world peace??   Anyone??  We've been fighting since we learned to stand long enough to chuck a rock.  

Maybe if we stop racing in to stop the kids fighting they'll sort out their own pecking order and grow up all by 'emselves, who knows?  That's there's going to be those who don't is a sad fact but we're all gonna die of something. And like most who've had enough of being manipulated by dozy diplomats, I don't see why 'our' kids lives are deemed worth trading for the lives of stranger's kids.   Sorry, maybe I've missed too many sermons but I simply fail to see logic of that glowing Christian notion.
That you hold that Samaritan view does you credit, but it alone won't save you and your family when Genghis comes over the hill.

Time to circle the wagons and defend our own core culture and society.  I can guarantee you this.  No one else is going to save it for *us*.

/rant


right that said... how was the holiday?


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## terra (Sep 4, 2013)

Geez Di... I only wanted a simple answer but you being the great storyteller of the ages, you've made it almost a saga. 
 Like you,.. I'm becoming bitter, twisted and cynical of all things in this world that we live in. 

Bottom line... if the great and mighty President of the USA doesn't seem to be able to deal with it without opposition from everyone, then who can ???

BTW... I replied to your recent question re. my little holiday here:   http://www.silverpeers.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9735

cheers for now


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## Diwundrin (Sep 5, 2013)

Okay Tezz, sorry, I've been keeping my head down on SP, over 'em, a lost cause. 


 Sorry to hear that twisted cynical thing is rubbing off on you too 



Hey, you know me, NLACGB for a rant, duzzen need ta be nuthin' personal, any excuse will do.  



Just had a peek, I wouldn't stay there, too damned hard to leave.  What a magic little bolthole for a holiday.... siiiigh.


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## terra (Sep 5, 2013)

Yeah Di.... too bloody noisy there.  
The constant roar of the ocean, it never lets up !..


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## Jillaroo (Sep 5, 2013)

_Oh Terra i really feel for you , but hey someone has to do it _


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## Michael. (Sep 5, 2013)

.

It is easy to say let them kill each other and it is nothing to do with us.

Some of us have served in the forces and I can assure that this current crisis is serious.

If they are allowed to develop and deploy chemical weapons we are all under threat

*Sooner or later they will arrive on our doorstep.?*


.


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## rkunsaw (Sep 5, 2013)

Boo's Mom said:


> I would like to find ONE person who will say, Yes! let's go stick our nose in another country's  business AGAIN.  This crap is getting so old!
> Live and let live .. or in their case .....let the chips fall where they may.  That's a sorry answer, but how I feel about this country being involved in everything on the planet! .. It's not our dilemma - butt out!!



That is exactly what I've been saying.


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## Jackie22 (Sep 5, 2013)

Michael. said:


> .
> 
> It is easy to say let them kill each other and it is nothing to do with us.
> 
> ...




Amen on this!


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## JustBonee (Sep 5, 2013)

Michael. said:


> .
> 
> It is easy to say let them kill each other and it is nothing to do with us.
> 
> ...




And this is _only_ the US' problem, why? ....
.. if this is such a big crisis, why did the UK give a big NO to helping?  
Why is the US twisting arms to get _any support_ in this attack?  

And furthermore a lot of what is going on over there is a *mystery*!!  ...  let's jump in and make yet another huge mistake! 

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_...apons-arsenal-remains-a-menacing-mystery?lite


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## Diwundrin (Sep 5, 2013)

> If they are allowed to develop and deploy chemical weapons we are all under threat
> 
> *Sooner or later they will arrive on our doorstep.?*.



Don't know about you but we have them arriving on our doorstep by the boatload anyway.  I wonder how many Afghanis ever knew that Australia existed before we sent troops in there to 'free' them?  

 We have Syrians here too, marching with "Hands off Syria" placards. They are Assad supporters. (Who exactly are they 'fleeing from'?)    So do we already have the 'enemy' in our midst?  Long bow, but realistically,  saying if we don't stop them there they'll come 'here' is an empty warning when they're already here and still coming in their thousands.  Chemical weapons may be being built in the neighbour's shed for all we'd know, and they wouldn't even need delivery systems.  

The US is unlikely to be physically invaded by Islamists, too hard logistically, hence the guerilla tactics.
But  we have over 200 million Indonesian Moslems a day trip in a leaky boat away. They outnumber us 10 to 1.  They've launched a few terrorist attacks on our citizens on holidays over there, killed quite a few, but launching an attack on Djakarta to sort them out over it wouldn't be the greatest idea we ever had.  Just sayin'.


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## That Guy (Sep 5, 2013)

Michael. said:


> *Sooner or later they will arrive on our doorstep.?*.



And there's a commie under every bed.


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## That Guy (Sep 5, 2013)

"Come on Wall Street, don't be slow, 
Why man, this is war au-go-go 
There's plenty good money to be made 
By supplying the Army with the tools of trade,"

_Feel Like I'm Fixin' To Die Rag -- _​Country Joe and the Fish


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## Sid (Sep 5, 2013)

"If they are allowed to...."  Who is "they"  Both sides have committed barbaric acts on  "innocent" people. Both sides have access and the ability to deploy chemical weapons. Why did John McCain visit with the "Rebels" about April or May. In seems to me this is nothing but an attempt to help force another regime change.  
         "Sooner or later they will arrive on our doorstep.?"   They have already tore down the front yard gate.  I don't see anything they bomb over there is going to change that.
          So folks forgive me if I stepped over any lines and I apologize for not being so eloquent, but I did understand somebody to say what do you think.


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## Warrigal (Sep 5, 2013)

No need to ask for forgiveness, Sid. As long as you don't abuse people for having a different opinion to yourself, then you, like everyone else, should be able to speak freely.


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## Diwundrin (Sep 5, 2013)

What Warri said. 

Not much point in discussing something everyone agrees on.  It does us good to see things through other's eyes, often we pick up on points we've overlooked and get better understanding in the process.  It's all good.


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## Anne (Sep 5, 2013)

I remember someone saying if the enemy wants to take over this country, it will be from the *inside*, not the outside.  I believe this is happening now.


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## That Guy (Sep 6, 2013)

Read some "interesting" things about fighting over natural gas pipeline going through Syria.  Seems lots of folks have a vested interest . . . so, let's kill each other over it.  Always comes down to power over energy sources.  Say, let's fight over the sun!


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## Anne (Sep 6, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Read some "interesting" things about fighting over natural gas pipeline going through Syria.  Seems lots of folks have a vested interest . . . so, let's kill each other over it.  Always comes down to power over energy sources.  Say, let's fight over the sun!



i heard it was about oil & opium (??!)  whatever it is, it involves money....maybe a little alcohol, too...


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