# "Love thy neighbor as thy self"???



## Susie (Nov 6, 2014)

Apparently not here!
Feeding the poor and the homeless in Fort Lauderdale, Florida has become a crime, since a new ordinance makes it illegal to serve food to the homeless.
Arnold Abbot, a 90-year-old volunteer, was arrested with the threat of "jail time and a fine of $U.S. 500."
Why is this kind, selfless 90-year-old being punished for being "his brother's keeper"?

http://www.news.com.au/world/yearol...uderdale-florida/story-fndir2ev-1227115338155


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## QuickSilver (Nov 6, 2014)




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## Warrigal (Nov 6, 2014)

The answer is take it indoors. Perhaps the authorities would like to sponsor something like the Exodus Foundation's Loaves and Fushes Restaurant



> *Loaves and Fishes*
> 
> Exodus’s food and social health program began with the Loaves and Fishes free restaurant at Ashfield, and this remains the focal point and base for all the organisation’s food services.  Loaves and Fishes, which is sponsored by Sydney’s 2GB-873AM Radio, is located at Exodus headquarters at 180 Liverpool Road Ashfield.
> 
> ...



Exodus not only feeds people, it has expanded services to provide dentistry to improve their chances of getting a job and to provide a service to children who are falling behind at school because of poor reading skills. By working on their literacy levels they hope to avoid these children falling into poverty as adults.

The poor and homeless need practical help, as well as food when they are hungry.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 6, 2014)

Susie said:


> Why is this kind, selfless 90-year-old being punished for being "his brother's keeper"?



Apparently because he insists on breaking the law, this being his second time in a week.

There's also another factor to consider here - he represents a religious organization. There might be a question of their non-profit status being jeopardized by serving food in public. Don't know if that applies here or not but it's a possibility.

They might also not be meeting health and public safety laws in the way the food is prepared. Again, just a possibility.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 6, 2014)

He has to go by the city/county rules and regulations like everyone else...http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...d-under-fort-lauderdale-strict-rules-against/


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## Susie (Nov 6, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> He has to go by the city/county rules and regulations like everyone else...http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...d-under-fort-lauderdale-strict-rules-against/


Feeding Sites?
I thought this expression was only used for 'animals'! I'm really annoyed by the frequent use of this disrespectful expression.
Thank you, SeaBreeze, for providing insight into the situation with the detailed report and added comments.
Was surprised by so many comments and really heartened by some of the charitable attitudes.
If you've been hungry, surviving on grass and water, you will do anything for food!
Only if you've never experienced acute hunger, could you be so cold and callous, even vicious, towards "starving Americans"!


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 6, 2014)

I've never even heard that expression before reading it in the article.  I'm not cold, callous or vicious toward starving Americans, but in every city there are rules for reasons, as SifuPhil mentioned like health and safety. 

 You can't go to a public city park and set up tables to feed people obviously.  If outdoors, you must also provide toilet facilities.  They are only stopping the charitable operation taking place in the city streets on city park property.

Here are the reasons they gave, and this regulation was voted on and passed by the citizens in the city.  Arnold Abbott said he was there specifically to challenge the city regulation, and expected the police to respond.



> Mayor Jack Seiler said he thinks Abbott and pastors Dwayne Black and Mark Sims have good intentions, but the city can't discriminate in enforcing the law.
> 
> He said it was passed to ensure that public places are open to everyone. He also stressed that the city was working with local charities to help serve the homeless through indoor feedings and programs that get them medical care and long-term help.
> 
> "The parks have just been overrun and were inaccessible to locals and businesses," Seiler said


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## Susie (Nov 7, 2014)

If I were the 90-year-old Arnold Abbot, I would stop volunteer work 'feeding the hungry' immediately; especially after a remark by Ron Park, chairman -Dade County Homeless Trust, stating: "Feeding people in the streets is sanctioning homelessness.
Whatever discourages feeding people in the streets is a positive thing."


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## ClassicRockr (Nov 7, 2014)

Feeding the homeless can be a tough call..........and I was homeless years ago, but for a very short time. I lived/slept in my vehicle in a church parking, along with some others. We were fed a breakfast and dinner, but it was inside a church building. The whole thing was completely legal. 

If a person complies with local laws concerning feeding the homeless, then there should be no problems. Don't comply and that's where the trouble starts...........no matter what age a person is who's doing the feeding. 

Bottom line is, follow the laws!


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## Debby (Nov 7, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> He has to go by the city/county rules and regulations like everyone else...http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...d-under-fort-lauderdale-strict-rules-against/




But what if the real reason the city has banned the activity because they want to make life so miserable there for homeless people that they figure this might help starve them out and force them to leave the area.  Instead of compassionately working to solve the problem, they're trying to push it to another jurisdiction.

Similar situation happened in Abbotsford, BC a couple years ago when the city council brought in truckloads of chicken manure and dumped it in areas where homeless people were 'camping'.  

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...-using-manure-to-drive-out-homeless-1.1325025

Remember, any one of us could wind up homeless.  A good percentage of these people never chose to be homeless but like they say 'sh** happens' and suddenly they had nowhere to go.  What would any of us do in that situation and how grateful would we be for a bowl of soup from some kind person?


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## rkunsaw (Nov 7, 2014)

Fort Lauderdale is just the latest of a number of cities with such regulations. Fort Lauderdale is also a city with a large tourist trade. Feeding a bunch of people on a public beach is not a good way to attract tourists.

As has been said follow the law just as everyone else is expected. This is all about getting attention and has little to do with feeding the homeless.


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## Debby (Nov 7, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> Fort Lauderdale is just the latest of a number of cities with such regulations. Fort Lauderdale is also a city with a large tourist trade. Feeding a bunch of people on a public beach is not a good way to attract tourists.
> 
> As has been said follow the law just as everyone else is expected. This is all about getting attention and has little to do with feeding the homeless.




Maybe one reason this man is trying to get attention is because the city isn't doing enough to help the homeless and he figures that just fading away will leave a very bad 'status quo' situation that is intolerable for the people who need help.  Do you think that's a possibility?  

Sometimes it takes civil disobedience to 'make things right'.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 7, 2014)

Besides... the rich folks in Fort Lauderdale don't want to see the riffraff...  it upsets them..   Not enough to do anything for them... just enough to want them out of there.

Just one question.. When Jesus fed the masses... was he required to do it inside?   lol!!


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## oldman (Nov 7, 2014)

I am one of those fools that hands a dollar to the guy or lady on the street corner holding out a sign begging for food or a donation. I figure that I am probably either feeding a drug or alcohol problem, helping him make his payment on his Mercedes, or maybe just once in awhile, I may be buying the person a hamburger at McDonalds. If I don't have a dollar bill with me, then I drive past.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 7, 2014)

The same thing happened to "The Deuce" - NYC's Times Square.

Back in the bad ol' '70's and early '80's Times Square was the center of the Evil Empire in NYC. Sex shops, drug deals, prostitution and every type of crime you could imagine were all there, in abundance.

Then Disney came to town. 13 acres were grabbed by the State, loans were made, skyscrapers went up and suddenly everything was gingerbread and unicorns.

But where did all the low-life go? They seemed to have just disappeared, swallowed up by the city, relocated to new hunting grounds. They didn't just go away - they just shifted their base of operations. 

They didn't eliminate them - they just moved them.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 7, 2014)

Yes..  People with money shouldn't be subjected to the "low Life" ..    Just the sight of them upsets their delicate sensibilities.


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## Warrigal (Nov 7, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Besides... the rich folks in Fort Lauderdale don't want to see the riffraff...  it upsets them..   Not enough to do anything for them... just enough to want them out of there.
> 
> Just one question.. When Jesus fed the masses... was he required to do it inside?   lol!!



The poor are always unsightly. Without any hope of participating in society, why bother with keeping up appearances?
Besides food, we all need hope. The outreach feeding program is the first step in restoring dignity but much more is needed.
I'd like to hear what the city authorities are doing for the homeless. Shelter? Programs? Subsidies to charities?

If none or little of the above then I don't care if Mr Abbott is breaking their laws because he is just attempting to fill a gap.


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## ClassicRockr (Nov 7, 2014)

I will say this again......I have no problem with someone feeding the homeless as long as it's done legally!! 
It's true that businesses don't want to see the homeless hanging around, and for good reasons. The way they look, smell and where they go potty at. And then, there are the homeless that want to stay homeless.......YES, stay homeless!  They want the free food, but, for some, they don't want any help. There have been documented stories about homeless people that relatives wanted to help and the relatives were flatly turned down by the homeless person.


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## Susie (Nov 7, 2014)

ClassicRockr said:


> I will say this again......I have no problem with someone feeding the homeless as long as it's done legally!!
> It's true that businesses don't want to see the homeless hanging around, and for good reasons. The way they look, smell and where they go potty at. And then, there are the homeless that want to stay homeless.......YES, stay homeless!  They want the free food, but, for some, they don't want any help. There have been documented stories about homeless people that relatives wanted to help and the relatives were flatly turned down by the homeless person.


So sad to read, ClassicRockr, that some people want to stay homeless, and that their presence is "bad for business"!
Here's a very detailed, lengthy overview of homelessness in the U.S., some sections open to further questions and discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States


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## ClassicRockr (Nov 7, 2014)

Yes, sad, but VERY TRUE.....some want to stay homeless.


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## Susie (Nov 7, 2014)

Facts about homelessness in Australia by the Australian Bureau of Australia:

http://abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/2049.0Main Features22011


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## Meanderer (Nov 7, 2014)

The homeless are not an organized group.  They are individuals, each with their own circumstances.  You can not always identify the "poor" by sight.  When you come across a person who looks hungry, offer to take them inside a fast food joint and buy them lunch. You'd be surprised how easy that is. Another good way is to find and support a local food bank.  Be generous.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 7, 2014)

ClassicRockr said:


> Yes, sad, but VERY TRUE.....some want to stay homeless.



Many of these homeless are mentally ill.  They are the people turned out in the streets when the funding was eliminated for State facilities across the country.  Many are paranoid schizophrenics who don't trust anyone or anything.  Of course they are not going to trust someone wanting to put them in someplace.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 7, 2014)

Susie said:


> Feeding Sites?
> I thought this expression was only used for 'animals'! I'm really annoyed by the frequent use of this disrespectful expression.



"Feeding Sites" is the expression of their own choosing to use, it is used throughout their website...so I wouldn't be too annoyed with it if I were you, or you can contact their charity and share your thoughts about their use of the term. http://lovethyneighbor.org/calendar/#action=ai1ec_month


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 7, 2014)

ClassicRockr said:


> I will say this again......I have no problem with someone feeding the homeless as long as it's done legally!!
> It's true that businesses don't want to see the homeless hanging around, and for good reasons. The way they look, smell and where they go potty at. And then, there are the homeless that want to stay homeless.......YES, stay homeless!  They want the free food, but, for some, they don't want any help. There have been documented stories about homeless people that relatives wanted to help and the relatives were flatly turned down by the homeless person.



I agree completely Rockr.  And there are homeless people who want to stay that way, or they can go to shelters that are available which provide housing, food, medical care and more. 

Some of the homeless want to use alcohol or drugs, and that is not allowed in these facilities, so they prefer to live on the streets where they can do what they want.  Relatives and friends that offer to share their homes with the homeless, usually have rules too about drug or alcohol use during their stay.

Here are just some of the shelters that these folks can go to.  http://www.homelessshelterdirectory.org/cgi-bin/id/city.cgi?city=Fort Lauderdale&state=FL

I agree that feeding the homeless is a wonderful thing, but do it within the law.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 7, 2014)

Re: the homeless not wanting to go to shelters ... 

In addition to the rules there is also often theft, fighting and mandatory wake-up/sleep times. You also become "part of the system".

In the religious organization's shelters there is often mandatory attendance at sermons. 

Some homeless just don't want to go this way. I can't say I blame them.


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## Lyn (Nov 7, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Many of these homeless are mentally ill.  They are the people turned out in the streets when the funding was eliminated for State facilities across the country.  Many are paranoid schizophrenics who don't trust anyone or anything.  Of course they are not going to trust someone wanting to put them in someplace.



I worked in a hospital clinic at one time and worked with patients with these diagnoses, and many of them were homeless. They would come to the clinic for meds but for the most part refused to be sent to  shelters or group homes because of trust issues and the desire not to be warehoused with strangers not of their choosing.


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Nov 8, 2014)

Difficult issue.  "But for the Grace of God, there go I....." I understand the words, "Love thy neighbor."  If I took to too literally, the lady up the street.........  :>)

I Googled the Mayor and each of the Commissioners of Ft. Lauderdale.  The Mayor is a lifelong politician.  He was the area's representative to the State House of Representatives before being elected Mayor.  On the Council are two attorneys, both principles in their firms.  One of those attorney's firms was started by his grandfather in 1925.  Also on the Council is the retired Chief of Police, along with the owner of a large area construction firm.  Most of them have served as officers of the local Chamber of Commerce or other civic organizations.  
This is a "monied" group.  It takes money and influence to win public office, even at the local level.  The allegiences are to others who 'run in the same circles'... not to the less fortunate of the Community.  
Many communities have designated areas where homeless or less fortunate can go for meals and/or shelter.  Those facilities do have to meet local and State health standards for food preparation and serving.  
Is this an issue of the monied elected officials just not wanting the homeless assisted in hopes they will move on?  Do the local businesses just not want to admit there is extreme poverty in the Community?  The political "mantra" in many areas, today, has been to cut taxes by cutting social services.  Has aid to the homeless been reduced to where there is no place for them to go for food?  We don't know the answers to those questions.
Then you get into the area of liability.  If the City allows someone to feed the homeless, what if a number of them are sickened or die due to food poisoning, etc.??  Could the City be held liable due to allowing the feeding on public property without oversight in food safety?  We live in a litiginous society.

My "sermon" is that we should take care of our own.  Not one of us knows when we might fall on hard times and be needing assistance from our fellow man.  If the City won't fund shelters and dining facilities... where are the local churches?  Where are the local "philanthropic" organizations?  Ft. Lauderdale is not only a large tourist area, but is also home to many retired people.  Where are the volunteers who have time they could give to assist in an organized effort to feed the needy?  

I will not fault the City Commission until I know the full story of how and why the ordinance was enacted.  It's much too easy to toss arrows, without knowing who is actually the enemy.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 8, 2014)

Lyn said:


> I worked in a hospital clinic at one time and worked with patients with these diagnoses, and many of them were homeless. They would come to the clinic for meds but for the most part refused to be sent to  shelters or group homes because of trust issues and the desire not to be warehoused with strangers not of their choosing.



Ever see the classic homless person with the shopping cart filled with junk and wearing 3 or 4 coats in the summer?  You can bet your bottom dollar this is a Paranoid Schizophrenic.   These people need compassion and help.   They are not being willfully uncooperative... they are mentally ill.  

I did my Psychology rotation in a very large state mental facility.  I worked with this population for 16 weeks.  The opinion  is that they are dangerous.. yes.. they can be.. but more often, they are the ones preyed upon out on the streets.  They prefer to be left alone to their hallucinations and delusions.  The facility is now closed due to funding cuts.  Where did they all go?  I'll bet you can find many of them out on the streets in Chicago.


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## Warrigal (Nov 8, 2014)

Grumpy Ol' Man asks good questions including "Who is my neighbour?" and "Where are the local churches?".

Classically the answer to those questions are that the neighbour is both the man who lies broken on the road and the one who stops to tend to his  wounds and who then sees that his needs are met while he is healing. The church is those people, whether they attend church or not, whether they even profess Christianity or not, who offer the cup of water, or soup, or a simple hot meal to those who need them. In Fort Lauderdale, the people who see a need and seek to fulfil it are made breakers of the law while the law makers themselves ???? As Grumpy Ol' Man says, do we know what they are doing about this problem and is what they are doing enough that they are entitled to stop others from trying to help?


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## SifuPhil (Nov 8, 2014)

As Mr. Spock once said, 

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".


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## Happyflowerlady (Nov 8, 2014)

This is just a difficult situation all of the way around. 
The homeless shelters are there to help people, but if the homeless do not want to go to the shelter, then you can't force them to do that, either. My husband worked at many homeless shelters, and when he was working at the Seattle Mission, they would go out and take soup, sandwiches, and sleeping bags when the weather was cold. 
If the homeless wanted to go to the mission for the night, they were taken there, and if they refused, then they gave them the food and sleeping bag to at least make the situation as good as possible for these people. 

I can see that it can't be allowed to just let people be fed on public property maybe, but if these people are associated with a church, then it should be fine to feed the people on church property, or another privately owned place.
The Seventh Day Adventists have a small food bank here, and they were also making a mid-day meal which was served at the place where the food bank is. 
I don't know if they had to get a health inspection like a restaurant does, but if these people truly want to feed homeless people, then these are certainly doable things that they should consider. 
Many other organizations are able to help care for homeless people and feed them; they just have to follow the laws to do it.

I usually do not give money to these people when I see them standing around asking for cash. I have offered to take them to the local shelter (which they always refuse), and I have also gone to the closest fast food place, and come back with sandwiches when I was able to do that.
 That way, at least I have offered to help, and not just give them money to spend on drugs; I know it goes for a meal for them.


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## Warrigal (Nov 8, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> As Mr. Spock once said,
> 
> "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".



And the response from his captain in Star Trek III was



> Because the needs of the one... outweigh the needs of the many


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## SifuPhil (Nov 9, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> And the response from his captain in Star Trek III was



Well, now, who are you going to believe - a man who was raised from birth to be logical and scientific, or a raging hunk of testosterone whose only _real_ 5-year mission was to boink as many green-skinned alien babes as possible?


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## Warrigal (Nov 9, 2014)

Both, they are opposite sides of the same coin or I don't understand Roddenberry at all.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 9, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Both, they are opposite sides of the same coin or I don't understand Roddenberry at all.



Ah, the Yin/Yang thing, huh?

So, we should feed the homeless in the park, and then arrest them all?


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## Warrigal (Nov 9, 2014)

Feed them first, then arm them. They can then go a-hunting for their next meal. :grin:


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 10, 2014)

Sick, just sick...


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## Susie (Nov 10, 2014)

Not nice!  Tourists (backpackers ) in Melbourne are eating food meant for the homeless. Why are they doing this? If they can afford to travel around the world, they don't need to steal from the poor and the vulnerable.
Saw the report in this morning's 'Age'.
http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...ant-for-homeless/story-fnizu68q-1227118062650


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## drifter (Nov 10, 2014)

Maybe the backpackers don't see it as stealing from the poor but first come, first served


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## Warrigal (Nov 10, 2014)

I wouldn't get too outraged about this.
Perhaps they were hungry too.


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## drifter (Nov 10, 2014)

I find the "love thy neighbor as thy self" quite impossible, something not within the human grasp.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 10, 2014)

drifter said:


> I find the "love thy neighbor as thy self" quite impossible, something not within the human grasp.



It's not even biologically sound - our species always takes care of themselves first.


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## Debby (Nov 11, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> The answer is take it indoors. Perhaps the authorities would like to sponsor something like the Exodus Foundation's Loaves and Fushes Restaurant
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Then the next question is, who will pay for the rents, the insurance and security?  Pulling up on a curb side for a couple hours  is free.

Keep in mind the 'mission' of these folks is to feed the hungry, not solve all their problems.  That would fall under the prevue of other agencies I would think.


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## Debby (Nov 11, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> It's not even biologically sound - our species always takes care of themselves first.




And look at the violence all over the world.  Looks like that attitude (take care of yourself first always) doesn't benefit too many.

Consider this:

If my focus was to take care of 'you' and your focus was to take care of 'me', we would both have our needs met AND a whole lot of good will would be generated.

But if my focus is on 'me' and your focus is on 'you', that leaves us with a gap in the middle that would be hard to bridge because of the perceived selfishness on both parts and especially if one party started out with an advantage be it intellectual, educational or whatever.


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## Debby (Nov 11, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I wouldn't get too outraged about this.
> Perhaps they were hungry too.




The article indicated though that they are using social media to find out where free food is available.  I wonder when was the last time a homeless person was able to access social media?  Like where do they keep their laptops and iPhones if they don't have a home?


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## Twixie (Nov 11, 2014)

The last homeless person I met..had just scaled the wall of a local supermarket..gone in the bins..and came out with 4 bagfuls of perfectly edible food...


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## Twixie (Nov 11, 2014)

I work in a meaty environment..our firm decided to donate a metric ton of prime Argentinian topside to the local food bank for Christmas..

''Sorry''..they said..''can't have fresh meat''

So it turned out that the homeless people were eating Spam for Christmas..whilst our local dogs home was treating the mutts to topside!!


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## drifter (Nov 11, 2014)

You win some and lose a few.


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## Sid (Nov 11, 2014)

Twixie said:


> I work in a meaty environment..our firm decided to donate a metric ton of prime Argentinian topside to the local food bank for Christmas..
> 
> ''Sorry''..they said..''can't have fresh meat''
> 
> So it turned out that the homeless people were eating Spam for Christmas..whilst our local dogs home was treating the mutts to topside!!




        Is that an exact quote?  

        How many food banks have the facilities to handle a ton of fresh meat?


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## Twixie (Nov 11, 2014)

It was Christmas.we didn't propose to turn up with a truck and dump it outside the facility..


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## Twixie (Nov 11, 2014)

Twixie said:


> It was Christmas.we didn't propose to turn up with a truck and dump it outside the facility..



They are simply not allowed to take fresh meat..cans..dried pasta..rice..


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## Warrigal (Nov 11, 2014)

Debby said:


> Then the next question is, who will pay for the rents, the insurance and security?  Pulling up on a curb side for a couple hours  is free.
> 
> Keep in mind the 'mission' of these folks is to feed the hungry, not solve all their problems.  That would fall under the prevue of other agencies I would think.



IMO the rents should be paid for in the form of grants from the very authorities who want the homeless off the street and out of the parks. Then the volunteers would be able to handle the work of distributing the meals in appropriate venues with toilets, fridges and ovens. Perhaps even tables and chairs to allow civilised consumption of the meals and collection of the remains.

This would not completely eliminate the need to have vans going out to the homeless and junkies who are the most dissociated from society but it would be a good start. The meal outreach is often the first step in connecting people to the other agencies that can help them with their underlying problems.


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## tnthomas (Nov 11, 2014)

Most supermarkets sell gift cards for all kinds of eateries, giving a gift card to a homeless person for a meal is a positive thing.


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## metasegue (Nov 11, 2014)

*The "Tiny House" trend can be applied to the disabled homeless. A 12'x12' area can contain a bed, table, chair, shower, sink, and toilet.  Blocks of these micro apartments, with separate entries, could be constructed out of shipping containers which now jam our docks due to disproportionate  export/import activities. No stove (microwave OK) and the water is only warm. The whole interior could be laminated chemically so it could be "flushed out". For various reasons, they require privacy and independence. We want and need to see them cared for some how. This sounds like a basic plan. Along with food stamps and healthcare, they can survive and we can feel humane. At the beginning, I noted the disabled (mentally or physically) homeless...I'm not into subsidizing freeloaders or free spirits. It's a free country but not a free ride.*


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## charlotta (Nov 11, 2014)

How can a religious organization be questioned because of their non-profit status and serving food in public?


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## charlotta (Nov 11, 2014)

Do we know if all the people were homeless.  Perhaps they are low on money because they just lost their job and need to get free food until
he/she find a job. Were there veterans in the food line?  Were there children there?


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## charlotta (Nov 11, 2014)

Debby, I have the same mind set as you do.  Let people know that your city/town has a problem of people who are unable to buy food as we are.  They may not all be homeless and may not all be bums.  Think about our veterans who are emotional ill and are just given bags of pills instead of the help to get counseling.  They are nearly as many veterans commiting suicide as died in Afghanstan and Iraq.


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## ClassicRockr (Nov 13, 2014)

Ok, this is what was happening in Denver, CO during their freeze spell this week:
The Salvation Army says it won't turn anyone away, but not everyone will take advantage of the warm beds.
"There's a great many people who have been out on these streets for years and all we can really do is suggest they take the information we give them and try to use it," said Joey Guynn who works for the Salvation Army's search and rescue division. "We can't force anybody off the streets. We can only offer them help."

This is what I was talking about in my previous reply on this Thread about how there are some homeless people who don't want any help so they can get away from being homeless. It's hard for some folks to believe that there are homeless people who want to stay homeless, but there are!


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## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2014)

Food isn't the only need.



> *Vatican Installing Showers for Homeless*
> 
> VATICAN CITY — Nov 13, 2014, 5:02 PM ET
> By NICOLE WINFIELD Associated Press
> ...


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