# Why Americans Die So Much Earlier Than Other Developed Nations



## Pecos (Sep 13, 2021)

I found this article in the The Atlantic to be very illuminating and more complex that I would have guessed. Since the time frame spans 30 years, it should not turn political:

Why Is America So Bad at Keeping People Alive? - The Atlantic

@OneEyedDiva @Pinky @SeaBreeze


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## PamfromTx (Sep 13, 2021)

It's all that ice cream that we consume, @Pecos


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## JustBonee (Sep 13, 2021)

PamfromTx said:


> It's all that ice cream that we consume, @Pecos


And too  many fast food restaurants


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## Pinky (Sep 13, 2021)

My response will stay private, since it would be considered political.
Very interesting article @Pecos


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## Gary O' (Sep 13, 2021)

Why Americans Die So Much Earlier Than Other Developed Nations​


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## JustBonee (Sep 13, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Why Americans Die So Much Earlier Than Other Developed Nations​
> View attachment 183724


Yes,   grease shouldn't be one of the food groups.


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## Robert59 (Sep 13, 2021)

Bonnie said:


> And too  many fast food restaurants


Here where I live we have over hundred restaurants which is bad for your health.


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 13, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I found this article in the The Atlantic to be very illuminating and more complex that I would have guessed. Since the time frame spans 30 years, it should not turn political:
> 
> Why Is America So Bad at Keeping People Alive? - The Atlantic
> 
> @OneEyedDiva @Pinky @SeaBreeze



The article is good, thank you for posting it.  

I find it interesting that it doesn't really mention obesity, which to me is the defining characteristic of "health" in America.   Over 60 years we have become a ridiculously fat nation, with corresponding rates of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and so many other issues.


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## CAKCy (Sep 13, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I found this article in the The Atlantic to be very illuminating and more complex that I would have guessed. Since the time frame spans 30 years, it should not turn political:
> 
> Why Is America So Bad at Keeping People Alive? - The Atlantic
> 
> @OneEyedDiva @Pinky @SeaBreeze



Consider Capitalism to be another factor for this. The prices for health treatment and medicines in the States are ridiculously high when compared to all other countries. My wife would buy her medicine (while on insurance) in the States for US$88. The same medicine here costs US$3 (without insurance)!


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## Ladybj (Sep 13, 2021)

S T R E S S!!!!   And I agree with the other post regarding the foods we eat.  Also, our healthcare system is not the greatest.  Every since HMO came into play...need I say more...jmo


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## Oris Borloff (Sep 13, 2021)




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## Ladybj (Sep 13, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> The article is good, thank you for posting it.
> 
> I find it interesting that it doesn't really mention obesity, which to me is the defining characteristic of "health" in America.   Over 60 years we have become a ridiculously fat nation, with corresponding rates of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and so many other issues.


I agree.  However, speaking for some women that have reached menopause - we tend to gain weight very easy.  We can smell food and gain weight...men does not have this issue.  This is why I try to watch what I eat and exercise..if its just walking a little every other day.


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 13, 2021)

CAKCy said:


> Consider Capitalism to be another factor for this. The prices for health treatment and medicines in the States are ridiculously high when compared to all other countries. My wife would buy her medicine (while on insurance) in the States for US$88. The same medicine here costs US$3 (without insurance)!




I know we have discussed this previously, but...all Western European countries (and developed Asian countries like South Korea and Japan) have capitalist economies.  So does the US.  

All these countries have universal healthcare, which some may consider "socialistic."  However, it is clear that universal healthcare delivers better outcomes at lower costs, so maybe it's just good sense.  

Universal healthcare is not funded by magic.  It's funded by taxes on people and companies who have jobs created within a capitalist system. 

If these countries were truly socialist (that is, if government or "the people" owned the means of production) you could expect their economies to tank.  That's why the UK, the Scandinavian countries, France and many others have pulled back from nationalized industries and other elements of a real socialist economy.  


One other thing:  The US spends much of its wealth on defense, about twice in percentage terms what other NATO countries do.   I used to support that.  Now I'm starting to think it's a near-total waste.  If our army can't beat the Taliban or the VC, we may as well give up on the whole concept.  

My grandchildren will be speaking Chinese, but I probably won't be around to see it.


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 13, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> I agree.  However, speaking for some women that have reached menopause - we tend to gain weight very easy.  We can smell food and gain weight...men does not have this issue.  This is why I try to watch what I eat and exercise..if its just walking a little every other day.



I exercise a lot and I still fight to keep the pounds off.  So, yes, I empathize, and I'm not condemning anyone who is not at his/her ideal weight.  It's almost impossible to keep weight off once it's gained.


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## Ladybj (Sep 13, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> I exercise a lot and I still fight to keep the pounds off.  So, yes, I empathize, and I'm not condemning anyone who is not at his/her ideal weight.  It's almost impossible to keep weight off once it's gained.


So far, I am doing pretty good.  I've lost a few pounds...have a few more to go.  I  changed my diet.  I eat very little fast food if any..also cut out white pasta and white rice.  Changed to whole grain rice and whole grain organic spaghetti noodles when I fix spaghetti.


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## CAKCy (Sep 13, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> I know we have discussed this previously, but...all Western European countries (and developed Asian countries like South Korea and Japan) have capitalist economies.  So does the US.
> 
> All these countries have universal healthcare, which some may consider "socialistic."  However, it is clear that universal healthcare delivers better outcomes at lower costs, so maybe it's just good sense.
> 
> ...



I'm glad you see at least _some _benefits of mixing socialism with capitalism. I'm not sure about the UK but France and the Scandinavian countries still have some nationalized industries. For instance Norway Government owns and runs 71 companies. It only makes sense that in a "free-market" economy the owners of the companies will work for their profit and benefit and not the benefit of the people in general. One may claim that these companies pay taxes but the legal (and financial) system in the US offers a lot of opportunities for huge corporations and their owners to pay very small amounts to IRS compared to the people.

I agree with you on US defense spending being a near-total waste. The money could be used instead for the development of infrastructure which would benefit the American people.

I don't think that your grandchildren will be speaking Chinese  but you should consider that one of the main reasons of China becoming such a huge economy is, capitalist countries (like the US) taking advantage of the cheap labor of China and having most of their products manufactured there instead of home. Basically Western capitalism helped China become a huge adversary.


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## Don M. (Sep 13, 2021)

CAKCy said:


> Consider Capitalism to be another factor for this. The prices for health treatment and medicines in the States are ridiculously high when compared to all other countries. My wife would buy her medicine (while on insurance) in the States for US$88. The same medicine here costs US$3 (without insurance)!



Our "For profit" health care system is certainly one of the biggest causes for health problems, compared to nations with a Universal care system.   Many or our people cannot afford the high costs of health insurance, or the co-pays and deductibles that are part of most insurance policies, so they avoid treatment for minor issues, that eventually become serious.  

We spend twice as much for health care as most other nations, and yet, when ranked, the US comes in WAAAY down the list in terms of the nations overall health....here's one that ranks the US at number 37.....

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

That, plus so many of our people who refuse to try to maintain a healthy lifestyle.....the CDC lists Obesity as being the primary cause for about 1/3rd of the nations health problems.....insures that these numbers are unlikely to improve.


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## CAKCy (Sep 13, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Our "For profit" health care system is certainly one of the biggest causes for health problems, compared to nations with a Universal care system.   Many or our people cannot afford the high costs of health insurance, or the co-pays and deductibles that are part of most insurance policies, so they avoid treatment for minor issues, that eventually become serious.
> 
> We spend twice as much for health care as most other nations, and yet, when ranked, the US comes in WAAAY down the list in terms of the nations overall health....here's one that ranks the US at number 37.....
> 
> ...



It only makes sense that a "free-market" uncontrolled economy would benefit mostly the ones having the companies. And this, unfortunately, in the US is less that 1%. The situation is a bit better in other western societies where socialism was allowed to mix in certain fields.


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## Tish (Sep 13, 2021)

Wow, that article was very interesting.
Now please don't shoot me for my answer, I guess it would have to be the healthcare pharmaceutical costs too many fast-food restaurants and gun violence.


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 13, 2021)

Our economy is hardly uncontrolled.  U.S. regulatory bodies include the Federal Trade Commission, the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Justice Department, the Occupational Health and Safety Authority, the Interstate Commerce Commission, the Environmental Protection Authority, the Food and Drug Administration, and hundreds of other offices just at the Federal level.  Every state has similar offices.  In fact the complexity and duplication of regulations is a significant barrier to economic health.  

And we're not exactly Uzbekistan here.  Our per capita GDP is the highest among large countries;  we have the world's best universities;  we have unparalleled innovation and scientific expertise (a lot of it thanks to immigration).  We do have a dysfunctional health care system, but if you do have access to it our doctors and research are amazing.  

Wealth distribution is a chimera.  The five "most equal" countries in terms of distribution of wealth are:

Ukraine (.241)
Slovenia (.256)
Norway (.259)
Slovak Republic (.261)
Czech Republic (.261)

Other than Norway, I wouldn't want to live in any of them.  (I'm not blond enough to live in Norway).


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## fmdog44 (Sep 13, 2021)

Because there are more guns here than people.


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## Packerjohn (Sep 13, 2021)

Thanks for the article.  I have saved it to my "pocket" and will read it tomorrow morning.  I have been in the USA many times. What I have seen is a very stressed out urban society with a lot of bad eating habits and hell-bent with "keeping up with the Jones'.  I wonder if that article will agree or disagree with my observation?


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 13, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> Thanks for the article.  I have saved it to my "pocket" and will read it tomorrow morning.  I have been in the USA many times. What I have seen is a very stressed out urban society with a lot of bad eating habits and hell-bent with "keeping up with the Jones'.  I wonder if that article will agree or disagree with my observation?



Kind of rude and unpleasant to make unkind remarks about someone else's country.  I have been in Canada many times and have lots of general observations to make, but I keep them to myself.


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## mellowyellow (Sep 13, 2021)

I think it’s because America knows how to make delicious food people will love.  Therein lies the dilemma.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 13, 2021)

I think the article does a pretty good job of answering the question.  A lot of it has to do with a higher death rate amongst our poor folks.  We have  more of them than many other developed countries, and without socialized medicine they have poorer health care here.  Throw in the guns and auto accidents and you pretty much have it.  

I also think there is something to what others here have said about diet, I think we are fatter than most developed countries.

I suspect fit thin middle class Americans live as long as anybody does.


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## Irwin (Sep 13, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> I think the article does a pretty good job of answering the question.  A lot of it has to do with a higher death rate amongst our poor folks.  We have  more of them than many other developed countries, and without socialized medicine they have poorer health care here.  Throw in the guns and auto accidents and you pretty much have it.
> 
> I also think there is something to what others here have said about diet, I think we are fatter than most developed countries.
> 
> I suspect fit thin middle class Americans live as long as anybody does.


I just did a search to see if that was true and yep, it sure is!

The analysis showed that the United States is home to the highest number of overweight and obese people in the world. In the U.S., 70.9 percent of men and 61.9 percent of women are overweight or obese, compared to 38 percent of men and 36.9 percent of women worldwide.​https://www.everydayhealth.com/news/are-we-fat-think/​


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## Shero (Sep 13, 2021)

I do not think this is 100 % true, but, many lives could be saved if beetroot is incuded in the hamburgers! Beetroot is full of nutrients!


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## CAKCy (Sep 13, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Our economy is hardly uncontrolled.  U.S. regulatory bodies include the Federal Trade Commission, the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Justice Department, the Occupational Health and Safety Authority, the Interstate Commerce Commission, the Environmental Protection Authority, the Food and Drug Administration, and hundreds of other offices just at the Federal level.  Every state has similar offices.  In fact the complexity and duplication of regulations is a significant barrier to economic health.
> 
> And we're not exactly Uzbekistan here.  Our per capita GDP is the highest among large countries;  we have the world's best universities;  we have unparalleled innovation and scientific expertise (a lot of it thanks to immigration).  We do have a dysfunctional health care system, but if you do have access to it our doctors and research are amazing.
> 
> ...



When I said "uncontrolled" economy I meant the government has no control over the price of a product. Anyone can charge anything they like.

And "per capita GDP" is misleading. It makes no sense at all to say that Bezons and you make on the average so many billions per year!


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## Warrigal (Sep 13, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> I think it’s because America knows how to make delicious food people will love.  Therein lies the dilemma.


My thinking is that companies like Maccas train children from an early age to like the food they provide. Try coming home from a school camp with a busload of teenagers who have been eating healthily for several days. When the bus passes a MacDonalds outlet the kids are all screaming out "Stop the bus". 

Fast food is OK for an occasional treat but too easily becomes staple food.


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## Warrigal (Sep 13, 2021)

Shero said:


> I do not think this is 100 % true, but, many lives could be saved if beetroot is incuded in the hamburgers! Beetroot is full of nutrients!


Every Australian knows that beetroot is an essential ingredient in a hamburger.


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## win231 (Sep 13, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Why Americans Die So Much Earlier Than Other Developed Nations​
> View attachment 183724


But they're all over the world.


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## Gary O' (Sep 13, 2021)

win231 said:


> But they're all over the world.


True

But doubt they're the steady diet elsewhere like we seem to relish

Heh, I had A McD meal in Kowloon
Nothing like in the US


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## win231 (Sep 13, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Kind of rude and unpleasant to make unkind remarks about someone else's country.  I have been in Canada many times and have lots of general observations to make, but I keep them to myself.


♫♫   My country's better'n your country
My country's better'n yours.....   ♫♫


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## Oris Borloff (Sep 14, 2021)

Bummer, I missed the Tom Paxton sing a long.


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## CAKCy (Sep 14, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Kind of rude and unpleasant to make unkind remarks about someone else's country.  I have been in Canada many times and have lots of general observations to make, but I keep them to myself.



I wonder if this applies to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, China etc. etc. etc......


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## Pepper (Sep 14, 2021)

In a word, the same one @Ladybj used STRESS.  It's has been proven we're the most stressed out people on the planet.  Too much to do with too little spendable money to show for it.  A rat race.


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## Daytona Al (Sep 14, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I found this article in the The Atlantic to be very illuminating and more complex that I would have guessed. Since the time frame spans 30 years, it should not turn political:
> 
> Why Is America So Bad at Keeping People Alive? - The Atlantic
> 
> @OneEyedDiva @Pinky @SeaBreeze


A couple of points:

I recently went on Medicare with a supplement. I suddenly found a wealth of healthcare options, which I need badly. Doctor's Offices seem very glad to see me and to help. In reality, however, I seldom see a doctor. Instead, I see a nurse practitioner in a doctor's office. There must be a way to spread healthcare through this kind of service by clinics Advanced Nurses, without dramatically increasing physician costs. I don't really need a person with a medical degree to diagnose and prescribe for simple illnesses. What we probably need is a total change in the way we provide health care. Given the vested interests that is not likely to happen quickly. I hear no interest from Washington to this subject. 

Secondly, our nation is losing family and social networks. We work and drive. Even relaxing is becoming a kind of competition. Almost every child is from a divorced family. The church is no longer the center of our people's lives. (Remember that Churches provided as much community as it did religion.) These changes remove the sense of social cohesion.  This contributes to the violent deaths and the deaths of despair. They probably also reduced the survival rate from disease. Without a family and community based, the will to survive is reduced.


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## Buckeye (Sep 14, 2021)

CAKCy said:


> When I said "uncontrolled" economy I meant the government has no control over the price of a product. Anyone can charge anything they like.
> 
> And "per capita GDP" is misleading. It makes no sense at all to say that Bezons and you make on the average so many billions per year!


GDP per capita in 2020 was $63,416.  Average household income was $87,864, but median household income was $61,937.  I don't find that misleading at all.


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 14, 2021)

CAKCy said:


> I wonder if this applies to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, China etc. etc. etc......



If people from those countries posted on SF, I would try to be as courteous to them as I would be to someone from, say, Canada.  Or the UK.  Or Cyprus.  Or Australia.


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## oldiebutgoody (Sep 14, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I found this article in the The Atlantic to be very illuminating and more complex that I would have guessed. Since the time frame spans 30 years, it should not turn political:
> 
> Why Is America So Bad at Keeping People Alive? - The Atlantic
> 
> @OneEyedDiva @Pinky @SeaBreeze




Simple:  the USA has many more people living in poverty and the safety net is so much less than it is in Europe with millions still lacking universal health care coverage.


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## CAKCy (Sep 14, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> If people from those countries posted on SF, I would try to be as courteous to them as I would be to someone from, say, Canada.  Or the UK.  Or Cyprus.  Or Australia.



Got it. I'm not sure I'm in complete agreement with it but I understand what you are saying. The problem I see is that the US have affected the life in almost every country in the world. So, it's kind of hard for people not commenting on it, even if the majority of the members of SF are US citizens.


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## Irwin (Sep 15, 2021)

It turns out that your zip code plays a huge role in how long you'll live.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/america-inequality-begins-womb

So we don't need to fix our healthcare system. We need to overhaul our zip code system!


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## win231 (Sep 15, 2021)

Irwin said:


> It turns out that your zip code plays a huge role in how long you'll live.
> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/america-inequality-begins-womb
> 
> So we don't need to fix our healthcare system. We need to overhaul our zip code system!
> ...


Or move.


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## Daytona Al (Sep 15, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Simple:  the USA has many more people living in poverty and the safety net is so much less than it is in Europe with millions still lacking universal health care coverage.


We have spent too much of our treasure trying to protect the world... which replies by hating us. Europe is not perfect, but they are focusing more on the life and health of their own people. I don't mean to sound socialist, but so many of today's children are born in violence and hopelessness. They are our citizens and out responsibility.


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 22, 2021)

PamfromTx said:


> It's all that ice cream that we consume, @Pecos View attachment 183800


Dang you Pam!! Those cones look SO good. I don't have ice cream in the house right now....and this makes me want some.  If I "die by ice cream" at least I will have enjoyed myself before kicking it.


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 22, 2021)

I have certainly noticed, especially in the last couple of years, that so many younger people are dying! My son and DIL lost more friends than I have. I've seen so many obituaries for Gen-Xers and Millennials that it's mind boggling. A few of my son and DIL's friend died of heart attacks and a few from cancer. One of my son's friends (and his fan). who was my neighbor, died from COVID early in the pandemic.  Another of his good friends, also a neighbor, died of a heart attack. I had just chatted with him a couple of weeks before and was concerned because of his weight, knowing he'd had a heart attack previously.  I was shocked when the son of one of my very good friends died just 10 months after he did. I never found out the cause of his death but he was preparing to go back to work as an educator in our school system. I'm thinking he probably had a heart attack or stroke.

There are a lot of factors to consider within the OP's article, which I didn't finish because my ADD kicked in (the same ADD that almost guarantees that I'll only watch half of an 41 - 42 minute episode then move on to something else). I read until my brain got boggled. This particular passage stood out because it's always been assumed that Black people are the only ones on welfare and Medicaid but that's simply not true. In fact as the article linked below points out, almost the same amount of Blacks and Whites receive welfare.
_"Policy also plays a starring role. Schwandt credits the Medicaid expansion in the 1990s, which covered pregnant women and children and likely improved Black Americans’ access to medical treatments." _So didn't Medicaid similarly help poor Whites?
https://brandongaille.com/welfare-statistics-by-race-state-and-payment/#:~:text=The following percentages are recipients of welfare based,• Black – 39.8% • Hispanic – 15.7%
I'll return to this thread later to further comment.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 22, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> _"Policy also plays a starring role. Schwandt credits the Medicaid expansion in the 1990s, which covered pregnant women and children and likely improved Black Americans’ access to medical treatments." _So didn't Medicaid similarly help poor Whites?
> https://brandongaille.com/welfare-s...fare based,• Black – 39.8% • Hispanic – 15.7%
> I'll return to this thread later to further comment.


Thanks Diva, good post and very interesting article.  

One thing I found in the article that was particularly troubling:

_The following listing of states has more residents that receive welfare versus an employed population.

*1.* California
*2.* New Mexico
*3.* Hawaii
*4.* Mississippi
*5.* Alabama
*6.* South Carolina
*7.* Illinois
*8.* Kentucky
*9.* Ohio
*10.* New York
*11.* Maine_

That just does not seem sustainable to me, how can a minority of the population generate enough income and taxes to support a majority on welfare?  Seems like a big problem to me.


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 22, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Thanks Diva, good post and very interesting article.
> 
> One thing I found in the article that was particularly troubling:
> 
> ...


Thank you Alligatorob, your point is interesting as well.  I wondered if those states had a higher per capital income thus collected more in taxes from it's wealthier residents but only California and Hawaii are among the top 10 "riches states". It was surprising to me that New York didn't make that list. The welfare systems in N.J. are county and city run agencies. I don't know where each gets their funding.

A good friend of mine lives in California not far from L.A. and she's mentioned several times how bad the homeless situation has gotten there. But who knows what percentage of the homeless receives welfare since they are transient.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 22, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I wondered if those states had a higher per capital income thus collected more in taxes from it's wealthier residents but only California and Hawaii are among the top 10 "riches states". It was surprising to me that New York didn't make that list.


It is interesting.  And I suspect one thing is that only the family earners are counted in the employed category where as the whole family, kids included, are counted as receiving welfare.  If true that makes the statistic a bit biased.  But it is still an awful lot of people on welfare.

I am not anti-welfare, particularly for shorter terms I know some people need a safety net.  However I worry that longer term welfare becomes a trap.  Few, if any, can live very well on welfare, to live well here you need a job leading to a career.  That will provide a more livable income.  Though to be honest I have not known many people on welfare, so I am not sure what most of them are about.  

I can think of one family I do know who seem to me to have become experts on figuring out how to get the most money out of the government possible.  And I know it has persisted through 3 generations now...  If they put the same effort into finding work and working hard they would be better off, and so would we all.  However it is a sample size of one family, don't know how prevalent it is.


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## horseless carriage (Sep 22, 2021)

Something that we see in our press regularly is the one hundred pound weight loss of singer, Adele. 
You could be forgiven for thinking that it happened overnight but in fact it took a number of years.
She has attracted some harsh criticism from some quarters of the press. The Independent wrote:
"Celebrating Adele's weight loss isn't a compliment, it's fatphobia."

"Insider," reported that many people congratulated and celebrated Adele for her weight loss. However, not everyone thought of it as a good thing. Several of her, plus-size fans, felt betrayed after seeing her lose weight. Some also pointed out that it is weird to compliment someone who lost a huge amount of weight.

Others also went on to assert that, making a big deal out of someone’s weight loss, is inappropriate. This reportedly makes fat and bigger individuals feel the need to be slender to become better. Although Adele has kept quiet about the debacle, her post reportedly sparked debates among people who are for and against her weight loss. 

Reading those reports it doesn't help any of those people who are trying to do something about their weight, it could be that others with less self discipline, discourage anyone from showing that, with determination, a lifestyle can be turned around. 

That sort of attitude seems curious because there was a time in the UK when almost 80% of the nation smoked, today that figure is less than 14%, so educating people about smoking has had a dramatic effect, but it would appear that challenging obesity is falling on deaf ears. Yet obesity is a killer just as tobacco is.


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## Irwin (Sep 22, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Thanks Diva, good post and very interesting article.
> 
> One thing I found in the article that was particularly troubling:
> 
> ...



Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

Q: Do 11 states now have more people on welfare than they have employed?​​A: A viral email making this claim is off base. It distorts a Forbes article that compares private-sector workers with those “dependent on the government,” including government workers and pensioners, and Medicaid recipients — not just “people on welfare.”​​https://www.factcheck.org/2013/01/death-spiral-states/​
The author of that article hasn't even mastered basic grammar. This sentence is way wrong:
_The following listing of states has more residents that receive welfare versus an employed population._


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## Alligatorob (Sep 22, 2021)

Good points Irwin, this one did surprise me.


Irwin said:


> Don't believe everything you read on the Internet


Aw come on, don't burst my bubble!


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## oldiebutgoody (Sep 22, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Thanks Diva, good post and very interesting article.
> 
> One thing I found in the article that was particularly troubling:
> 
> ...




 California has a population of 40 million. According to the link provided "There are approximately 12.8 million Americans on welfare, accounting for 4.1% of the US population. " Supposedly, California has one third or approximately 4 million of all welfare recipients. But according to California's govt stats, the state had 16 million employed as of last year in all occupations: California - May 2020 OEWS State Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates (bls.gov).   Therefore, the link provided to show welfare stats is completely skewed. Thus, it is not a "big problem", it is completely bogus.


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## Daytona Al (Oct 1, 2021)

I have never been on welfare, but was on unemployment in the mid1980s.  I met all the requirements, found job listings etc, but had no luck with employment. I felt paralyzed. A couple of days after the benefits ended, I got a job selling furniture. It was a job that I would never have considered during the benefits. The boss was ten years younger than me and the compensation was lousy, but it kept me alive. After a few months, I found a job at the local university (UF) where I was taking courses. I've been employed ever since, until retirement. 

I don't know if this has a moral. I was single guy, not someone struggling to support a family. I can't honestly say that I understand what that must be like. The only thing I know, is that government assistance had an inverse effect on employment for me.


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## Irwin (Oct 1, 2021)

I worked for private military contractors that were rewarded contracts from the government, so it was public funding... it was dependent on the government. I wonder if they considered that "welfare." I think it's okay if the money is used to blow stuff up.


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