# The huge cost for security for the Pope's visit!



## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2015)

All levels of government have had to spend vast sums of money to insure his safety.  Perhaps the Vatican should pay.  What do you say?


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## boozercruiser (Sep 25, 2015)

Well if he visited the UK Ralphy1, I would agree with that, and I agree for you there as well.
After all, the church has enough money to buy and sell many a country.
Including the USA!.

Still, look on the bright side.
He may throw some Holy Water over you.
Perhaps that would be worth a lot of money if you catch it in a bottle?


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## Vivjen (Sep 25, 2015)

I don't think he asked for it...look at the car he is in compared with his 'security'


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> All levels of government have had to spend vast sums of money to insure his safety.  Perhaps the Vatican should pay.  What do you say?


Please quantify vast sums.


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## boozercruiser (Sep 25, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> Please quantify vast sums.



How does 48 MILLION DOLLARS sound to you then Warrigal? 

*How Much Is Pope Francis's Visit Costing The U.S.?*
*The government has designated the visit a special national security event.

*http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pope-francis-us-visit-cost_56006cfbe4b0fde8b0cf693d


Antonia Blumberg
Associate Religion Editor, The Huffington Post
The Department of Homeland Security has designated Pope Francis's visit to the United States a national special security event. 
 The selection places the pontiff's visit among major national functions, like the presidential inauguration and the Super Bowl, that could become targets for attack, and streamlines any potential federal response. It also allows some budgeting for the event to come from the federal government, sharing the burden with the pope's destination cities.
But the tab to taxpayers remains unclear.
Some predict the total cost for the pope's Philadelphia visit will exceed $48 million. The World Meeting of Families, a major Catholic event drawing Pope Francis to the City of Brothery Love, has announced a $45 million comprehensive fundraising budget, according to Ken Gavin, director of communications for the Archdiocese of Philadelphia.
The federal government only allocates about $4.5 million annually for national special security events. 
HuffPost Live's Caroline Modarressy-Tehrani raised the question in a conversation Monday with Dan Bongino, a former Secret Service agent; Nicholas Casale, a former New York Police Department detective; and Victor Matheson, an economics professor at College of the Holy Cross.  
Matheson noted that other examples of national special security events include political party conventions and the Olympics. If the U.S. wins its bid for the 2024 games, he said, security costs would likely top $1 billion.
"That's something that would be borne by the United States as a whole, saying, 'Look, there is a certain privilege and honor in having events like these. And this is something that maybe all Americans should step up to -- not just the handful of cities that are actually hosting the pontiff.'"


And in my opinion.
The Vatican should pay!
But then, if it came to that, I bet you wouldn't see hide nor hair of him!


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2015)

Yup, vast amounts...


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2015)

And worth every freaking penny..


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2015)

Not worth a dime!  You like him because he is a liberal on everything but gay marriage.  But I don't care about his politics, I just don't want to pay big bucks for his security.  Thank God he didn't come to our state as he would have bankrupted us...


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2015)

In 2008 it cost $150 million to stage World Youth Day in Sydney.



> THE cost of staging World Youth Day in Sydney has escalated, climbing to $150 million after originally being budgeted to cost $100 million, the Sydney Catholic church has disclosed.
> 
> In a confidential briefing to diocesan priests last week, the archdiocese revised to $150 million its budget for the July event, billed as the largest religious gathering in Australian history.
> The new estimates include government cash grants but not provision of in-kind services including visa processing for pilgrims, the Pope's security, policing, sleeping accommodation at public schools and emergency health care worth more than $20 million.
> ...


The total bill for the Papal visit is unclear but this article talks about the security and other costs. $4.5 mill is the usual amount allocated for security for visits by heads of state. It will certainly cost more than $4.5 mill. 



> Events given National Special Security status typically come with federal funds backing them up, and the federal budget allocates a relatively modest $4.5 million to them annually. It’s not clear how much the federal government will have to spend to keep Francis safe, but it will unquestionably come to more than that.
> 
> One of the few hard estimates of what it will cost to provide part of the security for the papal visit comes from Philadelphia, where the pope will say Mass and attend a Vatican-sponsored World Meeting of Families that is expected to draw visitors by the hundreds of thousands. The city government has indicated that it expects to be reimbursed $12 million or more by the event’s organizers to cover the costs of a stepped up police presence, traffic control and other efforts by the city government to make the papal visit run smoothly.
> 
> ...


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2015)

Whatever happened to the separation of church and state in this country?  Can't speak for yours...


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## Jackie22 (Sep 25, 2015)

There are over 70 million Catholics in the US alone, my opinion of the cost of the Pope's visit is that anytime a world leader of over a billion people comes here and promotes good will, peace, humanity to man and the importance of preserving our planet it is worth every penny.

This Pope is well love and is trying to make a difference.


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2015)

How would it look if security was done on the cheap and a terrorist or three set off bombs at one of the big events, 
or if he was assassinated on the way to a  venue. 

Is the government providing any other unusual services besides security?

Will security be provided for the Dalai Lana's next visit in October? 
The crowds will be less so I expect the cost should also be less but apparently it will be comparable to the cost of having the President make a visit to a city.

Some perspective might help us to understand the reason for the costs.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2015)

Oh, just give _il Papa_ an assault rifle and a Guardian Angels escort - boom - done!


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2015)

And Al Sharpton as their commander...


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> And Al Sharpton as their commander...



That would do it! And Trump as their PR guy ...


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Not worth a dime!  You like him because he is a liberal on everything but gay marriage.  But I don't care about his politics, I just don't want to pay big bucks for his security.  Thank God he didn't come to our state as he would have bankrupted us...



How much did Netanyahu's visit and BS cost?


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2015)

BB isn't a religious leader, so separation doesn't apply...


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> BB isn't a religious leader, so separation doesn't apply...



Bibi is a FOREIGN leader and had no business lecturing our Congress...


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2015)

I prefer BB, and you dodged the separation issue...


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2015)

I prefer the POPE...  He's not trying to convert anyone... He is spreading peace and love for our fellow man. Which is a hellava lot better message than Bibi.


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## WhatInThe (Sep 25, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Bibi is a FOREIGN leader and had no business lecturing our Congress...



I thought the Vatican is a miniature nation state( a city block) who happens to be run by a highly religious leader.  I doubt Netenyahu's visit cost much more than your standard dignitary visit. I keep on hearing "unprecedented" security with streets and highways being shut down or blocked off. When the Pope went to the NY church the perimeter was a block around the church. Commentators on TV were stunned the Pope stopped and blessed a baby or two on his parade route. In DC along with the walkers they had at least half dozen cars trailing the Pope mobile let alone what was in front or along parade routes & destinations. 

It is the local residents that screwed not just with a bill but the inconvenience of having to take alternate routes to and from work, school or even a trip the supermarket or doctors. I'd bet a lot of people had to take off or had half days in those cities. Even local businesses will get screwed over to make way for dignitaries, tourists or pilgrims. 

http://gothamist.com/2015/09/16/abandon_all_pope.php

http://nypost.com/2015/09/17/pope-francis-visit-is-going-to-make-traveling-in-nyc-a-living-hell/

http://www.wdsu.com/money/philadelphia-in-shutdown-mode-for-pope-francis-visit/35417090

I saw something where they're canceling i-phone deliveries in NYC-uh oh, that's it.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2015)

I believe his visit did thousands of times more good for our country and our people that netanYAHOO's did..  and I'm not ever Catholic... nor am I religious..  BUT.. I believe his message is one we better all listen to if we are going to survive.  Sometimes you just cannot put a price tag on that.


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## Ralphy1 (Sep 25, 2015)

It is not a matter of preference!   Rather, enforcing separation!  Father Ralphy knows that you mean well and will forgive you providing that you make a generous donation to the Church, just send it to me and I will make sure that it is used for a worthy cause...


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## fureverywhere (Sep 25, 2015)

I'm not Catholic and would never consider it but seeing all these masses of people just beaming to see him...it's just so uplifting. Seeing people that overjoyed in their faith is beautiful to witness. I would hate to see one lone nut destroy everything. He absolutely needs all the security they can give him.


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## Falcon (Sep 25, 2015)

I'm not a Catholic,  or anything for that matter, but I think that he's a nice man.....and a VERY important man if you give it some thought.

He's got more power in his ring finger than many a politician, so we'd BETTER protect him regardless of the cost.

If anything bad were to happen to him while he's here, we'd have to go into hiding.


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2015)

Falcon said:


> I'm not a Catholic,  or anything for that matter, but I think that he's a nice man.....and a VERY important man if you give it some thought.
> 
> He's got more power in his ring finger than many a politician, so we'd BETTER protect him regardless of the cost.
> 
> If anything bad were to happen to him while he's here, we'd have to go into hiding.



That's the big picture. He is a head of state and an important world leader. Either ban him from coming or keep him safe. It's that simple.


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## WhatInThe (Sep 25, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> That's the big picture. He is a head of state and an important world leader. Either ban him from coming or keep him safe. It's that simple.



But dignitaries and big events come all the time with less security. The logistical problems with his 'visit' is all the different sites/speaking engagements. It's one thing to protect dignitaries but when you starting negatively affecting the local residents it's time to rethink. They tried to fry a state governor for reducing traffic lanes on a bridge which caused a fatality because an ambulance couldn't get through. They are shutting down entire sections of these cities with anyone trying to get in or out to conduct routine or emergency business is screwed.

I've worked in cities during presidential visits and other than his speaking/meeting locations traffic was only blocked during actual travel to and from. If it was a short visit they would leave roads shut down for a couple of hours.


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## Vivjen (Sep 25, 2015)

As I stated previously... The govt designated it; blame them, not the Pope.


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## AZ Jim (Sep 25, 2015)

I'm not the least bit religious but I regard the Popes visit as a good thing.  His peace overtures in Cuba, his message on Global climate change all good stuff.  I have never seen a more down to earth Pope.  I am glad we spent what it took to ensure his safety.  This Pope gives Hope.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 25, 2015)

Plus.... He's teaching "Christians" how to be Christian!


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## boozercruiser (Sep 25, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> I'm not Catholic and would never consider it but seeing all these masses of people just beaming to see him...it's just so uplifting. Seeing people that overjoyed in their faith is beautiful to witness. I would hate to see one lone nut destroy everything. He absolutely needs all the security they can give him.



Yes Hanf, I am with you there.
But the O.P. question was about the cost.
And I think the Vatican should pay for it.
Or at least go halves.


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## AZ Jim (Sep 25, 2015)

boozercruiser said:


> Yes Hanf, I am with you there.
> But the O.P. question was about the cost.
> And I think the Vatican should pay for it.
> Or at least go halves.



No offense but it is a cost borne by Americans, so it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.


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## boozercruiser (Sep 25, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> It is a cost borne by Americans, so it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.



The O.P. Asked a question in respect of who foots the bill for the visit. 
I answered.
If it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, thank you for letting us know that.
At least I know where I stand!

The mods might just as well close the thread down now!


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## AZ Jim (Sep 25, 2015)

boozercruiser said:


> The O.P. Asked a question in respect of who foots the bill for the visit.
> I answered.
> If it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, thank you for letting us know that.
> At least I know where I stand!
> ...



Don't overreact to what I said.  I merely made commented that in this question the question was to do with the Popes visit and it's security cost.  No one pays a dime except  us so it's what we think that matters.  I didn't mean to offend you. In other words you don't have a dog in this fight.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2015)

I love how the Pope is bringing us all closer together.


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## AZ Jim (Sep 25, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I love how the Pope is bringing us all closer together.



Ahhh the master of the understatement....


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## boozercruiser (Sep 25, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Don't overreact to what I said.  I merely made commented that in this question the question was to do with the Popes visit and it's security cost.  No one pays a dime except  us so it's what we think that matters.  I didn't mean to offend you. In other words you don't have a dog in this fight.



I accept of course that you never meant to offend me. And you didn't AZ. Not at all.

But for you to say...

*'No one pays a dime except us so it's what we think that matters'.
*
I do however find that opinion rather Condescending, Patronising and Pontifical.

And by the way. I don't own a Dog ! layful:

PS. Also, I am still not offended.


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## boozercruiser (Sep 25, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I love how the Pope is bringing us all closer together.




Aaahhhhh YES.

The Church and all Religions has that effect you know SifuPhil.

I think!


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## Shalimar (Sep 25, 2015)

I doubt Royalists would appreciate the same comments made about Queen Elizabeth who is also a religious leader. I don't think Canadians  would ask Britain to chip in for her security. It is all a matter of perspective.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2015)

boozercruiser said:


> Aaahhhhh YES.
> 
> The Church and all Religions has that effect you know SifuPhil.
> 
> I think!



Sorry, Boozer - I should have put a "sarcasm" smiley in my post, and specified that he was bringing us closer together _here_ on SeniorForums (because of the heated debate here). 

I'm just a little devil, aren't I?


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## Falcon (Sep 25, 2015)

Too bad the original post turned into a bunch of  snotty remarks.  Go to your rooms and STAY there until you're told that you may come out.


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## AZ Jim (Sep 25, 2015)

> I do however find that opinion rather Condescending, Patronising and Pontifical.
> 
> And by the way. I don't own a Dog ! layful:



Oh My!  Really?  Wow!!!  I had no idea!  Dogs have a calming effect Kenny.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2015)




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## AZ Jim (Sep 25, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


>



I do really like this POPE!  He's the best since I've been alive.


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## WhatInThe (Sep 25, 2015)

Local small business especially in the food industry may be hurt the most with traffic detours and parking bans the logistics of operating a business in or near one of these Pope security areas was complicated including some restaurants having to rent refrigerated trucks to stock food in advance because no delivery trucks will be able to get in. Restaurants that deliver say they will have trouble making deliveries.

Should add that nothing allowed in includes trash pick-up trucks municipal or commercial. Those odors will do wonders for the local food businesses along with rats and roaches. 

http://articles.philly.com/2015-08-17/news/65525616_1_pope-francis-cafe-owner-merchants

http://www.amny.com/eat-and-drink/p...-for-delivery-delays-seamless-says-1.10886207

In Philadelphia large chunks of their public transportation system will be shut down. The locals who need it rely on it are screwed.

http://scholarshipup.com/tag/philadelphia-public-transportation-shut-down-for-pope

Many neighborhoods are fenced off/in like in  one those apocolypse zombie movies. Everyone's life in those zones or security areas are affected.

http://www.wpbf.com/national-news/fenced-in-for-hours-to-see-francis/35480814

Heard some hard core believers say if the pope knew the extent of some of these measures he would disapprove.


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## boozercruiser (Sep 25, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Sorry, Boozer - I should have put a "sarcasm" smiley in my post, and specified that he was bringing us closer together _here_ on SeniorForums (because of the heated debate here).
> 
> *I'm just a little devil, aren't I? *




There is no need to be sorry there my friend.
I did of course realise that you were being ever so slightly sarcastic  there Sifu.
No probs.

*YES !
You are!  *


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## boozercruiser (Sep 25, 2015)

Falcon said:


> Too bad the original post turned into a bunch of  snotty remarks.  Go to your rooms and STAY there until you're told that you may come out.


.

O.K. Falcon. I am now in my room! 
I might as well stay in here, because obviously my opinion in respect of this subject doesn't matter.
After all, I am just a little 'ole Scouser from Liverpool.
So what do I know on this subject of that nice Pope person visiting your lovely country and costing you wonderful folks a few dollars?
Obviously.
Absolutely Nothing !


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## hollydolly (Sep 25, 2015)

Falcon said:


> I'm not a Catholic,  or anything for that matter, but I think that he's a nice man.....and a VERY important man if you give it some thought.
> 
> He's got more power in his ring finger than many a politician, so we'd BETTER protect him regardless of the cost.
> 
> If anything bad were to happen to him while he's here, we'd have to go into hiding.



I absolutely agree Falcon!!


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## AZ Jim (Sep 25, 2015)

boozercruiser said:


> .
> 
> O.K. Falcon. I am now in my room!
> I might as well stay in here, because obviously my opinion in respect of this subject doesn't matter.
> ...


Oh come on.  You need not play the victim here.  Your opinion about our expenditure to protect  the Pope is no more your business than mine about the cost of supporting the monarchy in your country.  Let's just be realistic here.  Your opinion on this board is as good as the next guys but you need to put things into prospective.


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## boozercruiser (Sep 25, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Oh come on.  You need not play the victim here.*  Your opinion about our expenditure to protect  the Pope is no more your business than mine about the cost of supporting the monarchy in your country.*  Let's just be realistic here.  Your opinion on this board is as good as the next guys but you need to put things into prospective.



O.K. Jim.
Understood. 
I don't agree with the bold bit in your post, as I would have no objection at all to Americans having a say on our Monarchy.
I have some financial questions about some of them as well. Particularly Air Miles Andy! 

I have opinions about what is going on in other countries. Financial or not.

Anyway Jim. Come on.
Friends forever?
Lets have a hug!


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## AZ Jim (Sep 25, 2015)

boozercruiser said:


> O.K. Jim.
> Understood.
> I don't agree with the bold bit in your post, as I would have no objection at all to Americans having a say in that.
> I have opinions about what is going on in other countries. Financial or not.
> ...




I never suggested friendship or the lack thereof but merely pointed out my feeling on the subject.  I stand by all my comments.  *shake*


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## boozercruiser (Sep 25, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> I never suggested friendship or the lack thereof but merely pointed out my feeling on the subject.  I stand by all my comments.  *shake*



I second those emotions.


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## AZ Jim (Sep 25, 2015)

kay:


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## Warrigal (Sep 25, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Local small business especially in the food industry may be hurt the most with traffic detours and parking bans the logistics of operating a business in or near one of these Pope security areas was complicated including some restaurants having to rent refrigerated trucks to stock food in advance because no delivery trucks will be able to get in. Restaurants that deliver say they will have trouble making deliveries.


We had similar disruptions in Sydney for George W Bush's visit during APEC 2007 but somehow security at $160 million wasn't all that effective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H6pU4UbRYE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUZUUy5qWW0


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2015)

When Father Mulrooney visited Frank's Doggie Hut down the street last year it was pandemonium, despite all the precautions taken and money spent.


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## WhatInThe (Sep 25, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> We had similar disruptions in Sydney for George W Bush's visit during APEC 2007 but somehow security at $160 million wasn't all that effective.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H6pU4UbRYE
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUZUUy5qWW0



And that's the thing. When there is a will there is a way. The big thing, stop a bomb or sniper but in reality there is no such thing as perfection. A lot of these plans are a government official's exclamation point saying they did their job-look at me don't blame me etc.


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## boozercruiser (Sep 26, 2015)

O.P.  ...
'All levels of government have had to spend vast sums of money to insure his safety. Perhaps the Vatican should pay. What do you say'?

I continue to say, if I may, that the Vatican should pay, or at least  split the cost half way.

And I am a poet, and you didn't know it!


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