# Hospitals enacting “crisis standards “ for admission.



## Geezerette (Oct 19, 2021)

Which means that now admissions for ICU or other intensive crisis care can be decided on “survivability”. Just like wartime triage of casualties.
ICU units here are operating at up to 150% capacity, and staffs are exhausted. 
Procedures that aren’t “medically necessary “ will not be performed, and people with ailments that may be very uncomfortable, like a painful bad gall bladder, that a person can exist with, that don’t need a hospital environment or immediate surgery to survive will not get a bed.
The beds are being filled now by people who had non COVID health conditions last year which have deteriorated to critical and  non vaxxed COVID patients.
I would like the non vaxxers to wake up and realize that their irrational actions are literally causing pain and death for innocent people.


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## Jules (Oct 19, 2021)

Geezerette said:


> I would like the non vaxxers to wake up and realize that their irrational actions are literally causing pain and death for innocent people.


Totally agree.  

Our BC hospitals are all overrun with Covid patients and surgery wards are closed unless an emergency.  All tests that need to be done by surgery are cancelled.  Doctors have to make decisions about who is a priority.  

Northern Health which has a very low vax rate is air lifting Covid patients to the south.  

An appointment with a doctor can take 2 weeks.  My husband now has two tests that should be done to find the cause of the problems.  One has already been months and so will the other one be based on the waiting list.  My wait for my annual mammogram is usually 4-5 weeks.  Now it’s 4.5 months.


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## Irwin (Oct 19, 2021)

Geezerette said:


> Which means that now admissions for ICU or other intensive crisis care can be decided on “survivability”. Just like wartime triage of casualties.
> ICU units here are operating at up to 150% capacity, and staffs are exhausted.
> Procedures that aren’t “medically necessary “ will not be performed, and people with ailments that may be very uncomfortable, like a painful bad gall bladder, that a person can exist with, that don’t need a hospital environment or immediate surgery to survive will not get a bed.
> The beds are being filled now by people who had non COVID health conditions last year which have deteriorated to critical and  non vaxxed COVID patients.
> I would like the non vaxxers to wake up and realize that their irrational actions are literally causing pain and death for innocent people.


Yep, more evidence that they're sociopaths.


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## Alizerine (Oct 20, 2021)

The anti vaxxers may not be too bright but they are operating on misinformation that has been systematically fed to them. The irony is that those masterminds spreading the lies know full well that vaccines work and are themselves fully vaccinated.


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## Lewkat (Oct 20, 2021)

Geezerette said:


> Which means that now admissions for ICU or other intensive crisis care can be decided on “survivability”. Just like wartime triage of casualties.
> ICU units here are operating at up to 150% capacity, and staffs are exhausted.
> Procedures that aren’t “medically necessary “ will not be performed, and people with ailments that may be very uncomfortable, like a painful bad gall bladder, that a person can exist with, that don’t need a hospital environment or immediate surgery to survive will not get a bed.
> The beds are being filled now by people who had non COVID health conditions last year which have deteriorated to critical and  non vaxxed COVID patients.
> I would like the non vaxxers to wake up and realize that their irrational actions are literally causing pain and death for innocent people.


I'd hate to see a painful gall bladder turn into a ruptured gall bladder.  Not a wise decision on anyone's part.


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## Don M. (Oct 20, 2021)

There is overwhelming evidence that the vaccines DO work, for most people, and substantially reduce the risk of being hospitalized.  IMO, those who still refuse to get vaccinated, or think these vaccines are some sort of Poison, and get Covid, should be given a "cot" in some remote area of the hospital, and let nature take its course.  There are people suffering needlessly, or dying, because the doctors and hospitals are being overrun by selfish, uninformed individuals.


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## Irwin (Oct 20, 2021)

Alizerine said:


> The anti vaxxers may not be too bright but they are operating on misinformation that has been systematically fed to them. The irony is that those masterminds spreading the lies know full well that vaccines work and are themselves fully vaccinated.


The question is, how exactly do these so-called "masterminds" benefit from spreading the lies? Is it like some big practical joke?

There's a story in the Washington Post today that Rep. Andy Harris, who is a doctor, has prescribed ivermectin as a covid-19 treatment. WTF? How exactly is anyone benefitting from him doing that? And who came up with the bright idea that you can treat covid with horse dewormer?

It just shows that we as a species haven't progressed much since trepanation was the standard procedure for serious ailments. How long before we start seeing priests being brought in to exorcise the evil spirits? Nothing surprises me any more.


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## terry123 (Oct 20, 2021)

Geezerette said:


> Which means that now admissions for ICU or other intensive crisis care can be decided on “survivability”. Just like wartime triage of casualties.
> ICU units here are operating at up to 150% capacity, and staffs are exhausted.
> Procedures that aren’t “medically necessary “ will not be performed, and people with ailments that may be very uncomfortable, like a painful bad gall bladder, that a person can exist with, that don’t need a hospital environment or immediate surgery to survive will not get a bed.
> The beds are being filled now by people who had non COVID health conditions last year which have deteriorated to critical and  non vaxxed COVID patients.
> I would like the non vaxxers to wake up and realize that their irrational actions are literally causing pain and death for innocent people.


Thats how it is here also.


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## AnnieA (Oct 20, 2021)

We're back to normal hospital operations here as the delta surge is winding down.  Hope you guys are soon as well.


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## AnnieA (Oct 20, 2021)

Irwin said:


> There's a story in the Washington Post today tha*t Rep. Andy Harris, who is a doctor, has prescribed ivermectin as a covid-19 treatment. WTF? How exactly is anyone benefitting from him doing that?* And who came up with the bright idea that you can treat covid with horse dewormer?
> 
> It just shows that we as a species haven't progressed much since trepanation was the standard procedure for serious ailments. How long before we start seeing priests being brought in to exorcise the evil spirits? Nothing surprises me any more.



*Emphasis mine.*

LOL ...Doctors prescribe ivermectin because they know it has multiple human uses including antibacterial, antiparasatic, antiviral and current research indicates it is effective against human cancer types that involve epigenetic deregulators such as SIN3A and SIN3B.    Its human applications go far beyond the veterinary ones.

Good doctors also keep up with research like this Sept/Oct 2021 American Journal of Therapeutics article ...the article is a literature review of 30+ studies that show efficacy of ivermectin against Covid in three categories ...prophylaxis, disease severity and mortality.


.


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## AnnieA (Oct 21, 2021)

Give @Irwin a current, peer-reviewed meta-analysis showing ivermectin efficacy in preventing and treating Covid and ... crickets.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 21, 2021)

Irwin said:


> The question is, how exactly do these so-called "masterminds" benefit from spreading the lies? Is it like some big practical joke?
> 
> There's a story in the Washington Post today that Rep. Andy Harris, who is a doctor, has prescribed ivermectin as a covid-19 treatment. WTF? How exactly is anyone benefitting from him doing that? And *who came up with the bright idea that you can treat covid with horse dewormer?*
> 
> It just shows that we as a species haven't progressed much since trepanation was the standard procedure for serious ailments. How long before we start seeing priests being brought in to exorcise the evil spirits? Nothing surprises me any more.


Who? A group of international PhD medical professionals, after research, trials, and multiple peer reviews. And the NIH.

Ivermectin has been in use on humans for decades.

The doctor who proved it's effectiveness won a Nobel Peace Prize: In 2015, the *Nobel* Committee for Physiology or Medicine, in its only award for treatments of infectious diseases since six decades prior, honoured the discovery of *ivermectin* (IVM), a multifaceted drug deployed against some of the world's most devastating tropical diseases. Since March 2020, when IVM was first used against a new global scourge, COVID-19, more than 20 randomized clinical trials (RCTs) have tracked such inpatient and outpatient treatments. Six of seven meta-analyses of IVM treatment RCTs reporting in 2021 found notable reductions in COVID-19 fatalities, with a mean 31% relative risk of mortality vs. controls.. (See NIH website).


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## Murrmurr (Oct 21, 2021)

The primary reason for crisis standards in hospitals is because they get overwhelmed with patients who panic after testing positive for covid. Currently, most people who get covid do not require hospitalization and can recover safely at home. Because unvaccinated people over 65 or with comorbidity are more likely to develop serious symptoms, they ARE being hospitalized.


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## AnnieA (Oct 21, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> The primary reason for crisis standards in hospitals is because they get overwhelmed with patients who panic after testing positive for covid. Currently, most people who get covid do not require hospitalization and can recover safely at home. Because unvaccinated people over 65 or with comorbidity are more likely to develop serious symptoms, they ARE being hospitalized.


Disagree.   At our peak in Mississippi in early August,  all regular ICU beds were filled and there were two full emergency field units.  Can't remember the exact ages but the highest age demographic of hospitalized cases during the peak of our surge were 50s and early 60s.

Thankfully,  we're rapidly nearing the lower levels of infection since the onset of the pandemic and hospitals are back to business as usual.


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## AnnieA (Oct 21, 2021)

Double post


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## Murrmurr (Oct 21, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Disagree.   At our peak in Mississippi in early August,  all regular ICU beds were filled and there were two full emergency field units.  Can't remember the exact ages but the highest numbers of ICU cases during the peak of our surge were 50s and early 60s.
> 
> Thankfully,  we're rapidly nearing the lower levels of infection since the onset of the pandemic and hospitals are back to business as usual.   Same for most of the Southeast


Ah yes, the numbers here have been declining for weeks. So, yes, regional. But I still maintain that the primary reason for crisis standards is to weed out people in covid-positivity panic so that medical staff can focus on patients who actually need the beds. That's how my PCP explained it.


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## Irwin (Oct 21, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Who? A group of international PhD medical professionals, after research, trials, and multiple peer reviews. And the NIH.
> 
> Ivermectin has been in use on humans for decades.
> 
> The doctor who proved it's effectiveness won a Nobel Peace Prize: In 2015, the *Nobel* Committee for Physiology or Medicine, in its only award for treatments of infectious diseases since six decades prior, honoured the discovery of *ivermectin* (IVM), a multifaceted drug deployed against some of the world's most devastating tropical diseases. Since March 2020, when IVM was first used against a new global scourge, COVID-19, more than 20 randomized clinical trials (RCTs) have tracked such inpatient and outpatient treatments. Six of seven meta-analyses of IVM treatment RCTs reporting in 2021 found notable reductions in COVID-19 fatalities, with a mean 31% relative risk of mortality vs. controls.. (See NIH website).


I read there were problems with some of those studies, but if people want to be treated with it, I say go for it! It's not approved by the FDA to treat covid-19, and if somebody gets sick and dies from it, they could sue the prescribing doctor. There are other treatments that are supposedly more effective and safer.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 22, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I read there were problems with some of those studies, but if people want to be treated with it, I say go for it! It's not approved by the FDA to treat covid-19, and if somebody gets sick and dies from it, they could sue the prescribing doctor. There are other treatments that are supposedly more effective and safer.


WHO (World Health Organization) and the NIH have approved it. What do you suppose is making the FDA reluctant? Maybe the same organization that backed articles about problems with some of those studies?

There were problems with the studies about a year and a half ago, the study groups were small and most had no control groups. The participating universities, hospitals, and doctors admitted that, and asked for funding to conduct more accurate studies. They were denied funding, so relied on private funding. The new studies were done with an over-abundance of caution, oversight, and thoroughness, and proved Ivermectin is an effective treatment.

The problem is, it's an existing drug owned by a small pharmaceutical company, it's abundantly available, and it's cheap. A full-course treatment will cost you $7 to $14. In other words, no one's going to rake in trillions per year on Ivermectin.


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## AnnieA (Oct 22, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> The problem is, it's an existing drug owned by a small pharmaceutical company, it's abundantly available, and it's cheap. A full-course treatment will cost you $7 to $14. In other words, no one's going to rake in trillions per year on Ivermectin.




Exactly.  You're going to get limited info for cheap generics from the US.  I've read the original  literature review and 10+ original sutides of the 30+ studies covered in the literature review.  They're conducted by scientists in parts of the world who can't afford Big Pharma's prices for their citizens.   Powerful motivator to find what works without the okay from first world countries government entities  that are often pharmaceutical profit influenced.



Irwin said:


> I read there were problems with some of those studies, but if people want to be treated with it, I say go for it! It's not approved by the FDA to treat covid-19, and if somebody gets sick and dies from it, they could sue the prescribing doctor. There are other treatments that are supposedly more effective and safer.



Safer than ivermectin, LOL???  It's been GRS ("generally regarded as safe") for 40 years for multiple human applications.  And it's efficacious against Covid.  Hard to see how you're coming up with lawsuits there.

Physicians, do thankfully, have the option to practice medicine outside the bounds of governmental mouthpieces such as the FDA.  That's why good ones read original  research and use many, many therapeutics "off label" which means to treat a condition with a medication that hasn't yet been formally approved for that condition.   A good many "off label" uses wind up so effective that pharmacuetical companies eventually go  through the process to have the condition added to official formularies.   Though they really prefer to do that with expensive meds that are still under patent rather than generics that cost mere cents per dose.


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## Irwin (Oct 22, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> WHO (World Health Organization) and the NIH have approved it. What do you suppose is making the FDA reluctant? Maybe the same organization that backed articles about problems with some of those studies?
> 
> There were problems with the studies about a year and a half ago, the study groups were small and most had no control groups. The participating universities, hospitals, and doctors admitted that, and asked for funding to conduct more accurate studies. They were denied funding, so relied on private funding. The new studies were done with an over-abundance of caution, oversight, and thoroughness, and proved Ivermectin is an effective treatment.
> 
> The problem is, it's an existing drug owned by a small pharmaceutical company, it's abundantly available, and it's cheap. A full-course treatment will cost you $7 to $14. In other words, no one's going to rake in trillions per year on Ivermectin.


Merck manufactures ivermectin, that's hardly a small mom-and-pop operation. They're a multinational multibillion dollar corporation.

I have to go... more on this... Stay tuned!


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## AnnieA (Oct 22, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Merck manufactures ivermectin, that's hardly a small mom-and-pop operation. They're a multinational multibillion dollar corporation.



Most all meds are produced by multibillion dollar companies.   But they don't make much of a profit on generics.

Have you ever worked in healthcare with direct contact with pharmaceutical sales personnel, have a masters or higher in a hard science or health field or know how to analyze original source medical articles?  My guess from your posts is no ...if so, brush up.  If you're interested in understanding the complexities of the subject, you'll have to go beyond getting your medical info from lay media sources.   Certainly don't do snark based off non-science publications like you did in post #7  ...looks foolish.

Will continue to type this over and over and over:  Do not trust US media.  There are two polarized camps that seek to sway their respective sheeple.  Read  from both sides and seek the original source if you think you've found a nugget of truth. If you can find validation for the original source through other non lay media sources,  so much the better.

.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 22, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Merck manufactures ivermectin, that's hardly a small mom-and-pop operation. They're a multinational multibillion dollar corporation.
> 
> I have to go... more on this... Stay tuned!


True, but I said "smaller" (or "not major", or something like that).

Merck recently created (reformulated Ivermectin) "an entirely new" medication which they claim is better and safer, and costs about $700 per full treatment. (hmmm)

The claims that Ivermectin is unsafe is total BS. It has been used for over a decade to treat malaria and various parasitic diseases (in humans) with virtually no one reporting adverse effects (a tiny fraction). It's been on WHO and NIH approved drugs list for safety and effectiveness since 2010, I think...same year it's creator got the Nobel Peace Prize for it.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 22, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Physicians, do thankfully, have the option to practice medicine outside the bounds of governmental mouthpieces such as the FDA.  That's why good ones read original  research and use many, many therapeutics "off label" which means to treat a condition with a medication that hasn't yet been formally approved for that condition.   A good many "off label" uses wind up so effective that pharmacuetical companies eventually go  through the process to have the condition added to official formularies.   Though they really prefer to do that with expensive meds that are still under patent rather than generics that cost mere cents per dose.


Aspirin is a perfect example of off-label drug use practices - created strictly as a fever reducer, it has been used as an analgesic and a blood-thinner for many years.


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## AnnieA (Oct 22, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> True, but I said "smaller" (or "not major", or something like that).
> 
> Merck recently created (reformulated Ivermectin) "an entirely new" medication which they claim is better and safer, and costs about $700 per full treatment. (hmmm)
> 
> The claims that Ivermectin is unsafe is total BS. It has been used for over a decade to treat malaria and various parasitic diseases (in humans) with virtually no one reporting adverse effects (a tiny fraction). It's been on WHO and NIH approved drugs list for safety and effectiveness since 2010, I think...same year it's creator got the Nobel Peace Prize for it.



It's been used safely and effectively for much longer than a decade.  The Nobel Prize was retrospective.

Out of over a thousand studies since its discovery in the 1970s, adverse effects are generally reported as mild, infrequent,  and to quote one study verbatim "do not necessitate cessation of treatment."


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## Irwin (Oct 22, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> True, but I said "smaller" (or "not major", or something like that).
> 
> Merck recently created (reformulated Ivermectin) "an entirely new" medication which they claim is better and safer, and costs about $700 per full treatment. (hmmm)
> 
> The claims that Ivermectin is unsafe is total BS. It has been used for over a decade to treat malaria and various parasitic diseases (in humans) with virtually no one reporting adverse effects (a tiny fraction). It's been on WHO and NIH approved drugs list for safety and effectiveness since 2010, I think...same year it's creator got the Nobel Peace Prize for it.


Ivermectin can have some brutal side-effects and is has not been proven to be effective against covid-19. Trials are ongoing and it may have some benefit but that remains to be seen.

How exactly did you get so obsessed with ivermectin? Personally, I never even heard of it until your posts, and then I started seeing some articles about it being dangerous in large dosages that were intended for animals. It seems like people on one side of the political spectrum have touted drugs such as hydroxychloroquine and now ivermectin, and even believed that bleach would protect them, yet they're terrified of the vaccine. It doesn't make any sense.

Everything has been politicized in this day and age... the pandemic, the vaccine, drug treatments... Is it just a rebellion against government or a rebellion against reality? I can understand the latter since reality sucks. Personally, I use alcohol to provide a little temporary relief. The problem is, it's too fleeting. If only there was long term relief.


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## AnnieA (Oct 22, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Ivermectin can have some brutal side-effects and is has not been proven to be effective against covid-19. Trials are ongoing and it may have some benefit but that remains to be seen.






What sources? @Irwin ? Peer-reviewed scientific articles or media "stories"?

Current peer-reviewed sources disprove your statements other than large doses having bad side effects.   Ivermectin as prescribed by doctors for humans is an incredibly safe drug and has been for over 40 years.

I'm beginning to think @Irwin has me on ignore, lol.   But I'm having a lot of fun answering him with research sources. ....the peer-reviewed ones that prove safety and efficacy for Covid prophylaxis and treatment.


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## AnnieA (Oct 22, 2021)

Geezerette said:


> Which means that now admissions for ICU or other intensive crisis care can be decided on “survivability”. Just like wartime triage of casualties.
> ICU units here are operating at up to 150% capacity, and staffs are exhausted.
> Procedures that aren’t “medically necessary “ will not be performed, and people with ailments that may be very uncomfortable, like a painful bad gall bladder, that a person can exist with, that don’t need a hospital environment or immediate surgery to survive will not get a bed.
> The beds are being filled now by people who had non COVID health conditions last year which have deteriorated to critical and  non vaxxed COVID patients.
> I would like the non vaxxers to wake up and realize that their irrational actions are literally causing pain and death for innocent people.



Back to the OP.  Saw my internist yesterday who is part of the Covid response team at our local small hospital.   He said there hasn't been a Covid admission in two weeks and that they've been back to normal operations for over a month.  Looking at current US infection numbers,  thats probably the case for most of the country with the exception of a few Western states and West Virginia.


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## MarciKS (Oct 22, 2021)

Geezerette said:


> Which means that now admissions for ICU or other intensive crisis care can be decided on “survivability”. Just like wartime triage of casualties.
> ICU units here are operating at up to 150% capacity, and staffs are exhausted.
> Procedures that aren’t “medically necessary “ will not be performed, and people with ailments that may be very uncomfortable, like a painful bad gall bladder, that a person can exist with, that don’t need a hospital environment or immediate surgery to survive will not get a bed.
> The beds are being filled now by people who had non COVID health conditions last year which have deteriorated to critical and  non vaxxed COVID patients.
> I would like the non vaxxers to wake up and realize that their irrational actions are literally causing pain and death for innocent people.


while i agree with this statement you also need to realize that a lot of these types don't care. they don't care if they're harming anyone else or killing anyone else with their selfish behavior. *(and for those of you who are gonna start ranting about not being able to take the shots...i'm not referring to you!)*

there are people who can take the shots but simply refuse based on fear and the fact that they're being told to do it. cuz God forbid their rights might be violated. and God forbid they might be accused of being sheep. 

until people get vaxxed and follow the guidelines of distancing and masking...*ALL 3!! NOT JUST ONE OR ANOTHER*...this is never gonna go away. we will stuck with this and all that it has brought with it for the rest of our damn lives! as a healthcare worker this really p*sses me off because it's totally avoidable and completely unnecessary for us to have to keep going through this every single day. you have no idea the amount of stress and exhaustion this carries with it for us and that's just the smaller facilities. i feel bad for those working in the larger hospitals. but people won't listen. they choose to believe all the crap they see on the news or read on the internet. some claim their very own doctors have stated such things or told them not to take the vaccine. most of us aren't having any issues with it. there's always some that will have troubles with it. it's just how life is. 

i say quit being selfish little babies and go roll your damn sleeve up and get the jab and wear your mask and stay home unless you need to go out. with something this contagious it amazes me how many of you go to all these public events knowing full well you could get sick. for God sake use your brains.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 22, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Ivermectin can have some brutal side-effects and is has not been proven to be effective against covid-19. Trials are ongoing and it may have some benefit but that remains to be seen.
> 
> How exactly did you get so obsessed with ivermectin? Personally, I never even heard of it until your posts, and then I started seeing some articles about it being dangerous in large dosages that were intended for animals. It seems like people on one side of the political spectrum have touted drugs such as hydroxychloroquine and now ivermectin, and even believed that bleach would protect them, yet they're terrified of the vaccine. It doesn't make any sense.
> 
> Everything has been politicized in this day and age... the pandemic, the vaccine, drug treatments... Is it just a rebellion against government or a rebellion against reality? I can understand the latter since reality sucks. Personally, I use alcohol to provide a little temporary relief. The problem is, it's too fleeting. If only there was long term relief.


Yep. The former president said the word Ivermectin, and that started a storm.

Ivermectin has been proven effective against covid if treatment begins in the early stages, and effective at minimizing symptoms when introduced later. Doctors are prescribing it but some pharmacies have been instructed to not fill the prescriptions. It's crazy.

I got interested in it when a doctor/hospital administrator in South America said it could actually _prevent_ covid. No one wanted to hear that, especially not Pfizer. It has _not_ yet been proven as a preventative.


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