# You live alone ? Do you keep a gun in your residence ?



## jimintoronto (Apr 3, 2022)

How many people ( on this forum ) who live alone, have a gun ? JimB.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 3, 2022)

Guns were never allowed in my home. I had a BF once who took out a gun and thought it was cute to play with it. I asked him to leave and that ended that relationship.


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## Lee (Apr 3, 2022)

No gun here, just a loaded water pistol for when the cat needs a behavior reminder.


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## Jackie23 (Apr 3, 2022)

No guns in my house.


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## AnnieA (Apr 3, 2022)

I keep mine in my RV.  Only once in two years since I got the van have I taken it out of its case when I was camped at a remote location next to a creepy, methish looking guy.   I moved on the next day.


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## jimintoronto (Apr 3, 2022)

Lee said:


> No gun here, just a loaded water pistol for when the cat needs a behavior reminder.


Seeing that you live in Ontario, I would be surprised if you had a gun ( of any kind ) in your house. JimB.


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## hollydolly (Apr 3, 2022)

Me!!

 This will surprise you but yes I have 2 in my residence. In this country you have to be vetted by the police  to have a licence to own guns to use either for shooting game or to use for sport  at the shooting range , and they have to be kept locked in the gun safe when not in use .. and I have guns here . Shooting has long been a  hobby of mine , but I don't mention it here or in public for obvious reasons


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## Pepper (Apr 3, 2022)

I used to be a gun owner in New Hampshire but gave them to a friend when I moved to NYC where it is not allowed.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Apr 3, 2022)

We don't have a gun.
I really don't understand the concept of having a gun in the home for protection. 
Both of my kids have a gun which is unloaded, and in a safe in some obscure area of the house. 
So when the burglar comes into your home do you kindly ask him to wait while you go to the safe, fiddle with the combination ,load the gun and then find the guy and shoot him? 
I'm pretty sure I would have better results with a baseball bat or frying pan.


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## Pepper (Apr 3, 2022)

That reminds me @Ruth n Jersey I have a loaded baseball bat behind a table next to the door.  Glad I never had to use it, as until you just mentioned it, I forgot it was there!  Bet it's really dusty!


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## jimintoronto (Apr 3, 2022)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> We don't have a gun.
> I really don't understand the concept of having a gun in the home for protection.
> Both of my kids have a gun which is unloaded, and in a safe in some obscure area of the house.
> So when the burglar comes into your home do you kindly ask him to wait while you go to the safe, fiddle with the combination ,load the gun and then find the guy and shoot him?
> I'm pretty sure I would have better results with a baseball bat or frying pan.


My home has security bars on the outside of the  doors, and the ground floor windows have been replaced with 2 inch thick  lexan panels. It is the same see though plastic used in hockey arenas, above the boards. It would take at least 5 minutes to break through the doors, or the windows,  so by that time  Toronto Police would have 3 units at my house, in response to my 911 phone call. Jimb.


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## katlupe (Apr 3, 2022)

I grew up with guns so I am familiar with them. I do not own one though having sold the one I had when I moved here.


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## hollydolly (Apr 3, 2022)

Pepper said:


> That reminds me @Ruth n Jersey I have a loaded baseball bat behind a table next to the door.  Glad I never had to use it, as until you just mentioned it, I forgot it was there!  Bet it's really dusty!


well you can just be happy it's been allowed to gather dust, that means you've never had a need to look for it to protect yourself, and may you never have to...


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## Don M. (Apr 3, 2022)

I own several firearms...mostly just locked up in a safe in the basement.  I used to like to hunt, but now the only time I do any shooting is perhaps once a year I put a couple of rounds through each, clean them, and put them back in the safe.  When we lived in the city, I kept a couple in the house, just in case, but now, living in this rural, crime free area, I no longer feel the "need".  I do keep a nice .22 rifle in the closet, and in the Summertime, I often "eliminate" a couple of Armadillo's if/when they appear in the yard.


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## Timewise 60+ (Apr 3, 2022)

I am a hunter, so I have guns!  No handguns, just shotguns and long guns.   For home protection, I prefer a shotgun it is easy to aim and would disarm any person with criminal intent in my home.


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## Trish (Apr 3, 2022)

Don M. said:


> I own several firearms...mostly just locked up in a safe in the basement.  I used to like to hunt, but now the only time I do any shooting is perhaps once a year I put a couple of rounds through each, clean them, and put them back in the safe.  When we lived in the city, I kept a couple in the house, just in case, but now, living in this rural, crime free area, I no longer feel the "need".  I do keep a nice .22 rifle in the closet, and in the Summertime, I often "eliminate" a couple of Armadillo's if/when they appear in the yard.


Do Armadillo's attack?  I have only seen them on nature programs and thought they were shy creatures who would run away?


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## Trish (Apr 3, 2022)

I don't own a gun but, I have an old school wooden rolling pin which I would not hesitate to use!


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## hollydolly (Apr 3, 2022)

Trish said:


> I don't own a gun but, I have an old school wooden rolling pin which I would not hesitate to use!


yes I have one of those too... in fact I have 2 of 'em


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## C50 (Apr 3, 2022)

I have been around and owned guns my entire life but never worried about keeping a gun easily accessible until a few years ago.

I now live alone and my house is secluded and we'll back off the road.  One day while working in the pasture an unfimilar pick up came down my drive and two young guys get out, walk over to me trying to sell me left over asphalt "from another job", an obvious scam.  A week later another truck pulls in while I'm out mowing inside a fenced pasture, another two guys get out and start to crawl thru my fence.  I yelled to stay there, I shut off the mower and asked what they wanted.  They claimed to be looking for a dog and wanted to show me a picture in case I see it, I told them to get out and they got very pissy.  I couldn't help but think these guys were all working ttogether looking for places to rob and it worried me.

Both times I was well away from the house and defenseless.  Sense then anytime I am outside I carry a gun,  and I also keep a gun handy while in the house.


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## Alligatorob (Apr 3, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> How many people ( on this forum ) who live alone, have a gun ? JimB.


I don't live alone, but have lots of guns, not sure how many.

I have a deer rifle and shotgun I used for hunting, and a handgun that was my father's from his service years.  Otherwise all were inherited or given to us.  I keep the guns locked in a couple of safes in the basement, and no ammunition in the house.  Pretty safe I think.


Ruth n Jersey said:


> I really don't understand the concept of having a gun in the home for protection.


I think you are right, statistically having a gun in the house is more dangerous to the occupants than any "protection" it provides.  That is why mine are under lock and key, and not only unloaded but with ammo in the house.  https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M13-1301


Trish said:


> Do Armadillo's attack?


Only the garden!


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## Don M. (Apr 3, 2022)

Trish said:


> Do Armadillo's attack?  I have only seen them on nature programs and thought they were shy creatures who would run away?


Armadillo's are covered with a virus which causes Leprosy.  Picking one up can be a "death sentence".  A few years ago, a neighbors dog was "playing" with one, and after the neighbor "petted" his dog, he got infected with Leprosy.  He had to have the dog "put down" and spent months recovering, and still has to take a bunch of drugs to combat the damage it did.  

If I kill one, I pick it up with a big pair of pliers, toss it into my burn pit, cover it with dead branches and diesel fuel, and Cremate it....then sanitize the pliers with bleach.


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## Alligatorob (Apr 3, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Armadillo's are covered with a virus which causes Leprosy


First I heard this, so I did some research and it appears  you are right, however the risk is low.  From the CDC's website, note Hansen's disease is leprosy:

_In the southern United States, some armadillos are naturally infected with the bacteria that cause Hansen’s disease in people and it may be possible that they can spread it to people. However, the risk is very low and most people who come into contact with armadillos are unlikely to get Hansen’s disease. https://www.cdc.gov/leprosy/transmi...nited States,unlikely to get Hansen's disease._

When I was a kid we used to catch and play with armadillos, even more often picked up the road kill, they make great crawfish bait.  Never knew anyone to get leprosy as the result.  But I may be a bit more careful handling them in the future.


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## Chet (Apr 3, 2022)

Since I don't hunt anymore, I sold all my long guns but I keep a loaded .22 revolver for home defense. Once in a while I unload it and dry fire it just to keep some familiarity with the gun since it just sits idle all the time. I found that with arthritis in my hands, I can only operate it with my right hand since the trigger pull is too much for my left anymore.


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## Don M. (Apr 3, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> First I heard this, so I did some research and it appears  you are right, however the risk is low.  From the CDC's website, note Hansen's disease is leprosy:
> 
> _In the southern United States, some armadillos are naturally infected with the bacteria that cause Hansen’s disease in people and it may be possible that they can spread it to people. However, the risk is very low and most people who come into contact with armadillos are unlikely to get Hansen’s disease. https://www.cdc.gov/leprosy/transmission/index.html#:~:text=In the southern United States,unlikely to get Hansen's disease._
> 
> When I was a kid we used to catch and play with armadillos, even more often picked up the road kill, they make great crawfish bait.  Never knew anyone to get leprosy as the result.  But I may be a bit more careful handling them in the future.


Yes, the odds of getting ill are fairly low...probably less than a hundred people a year get this disease....but then, very few people would think of picking up one of these critters.  Years ago, armadillos were only seen in the far Southern States, but with the climate warming, they migrate further North each year.  All I can say is....Stay Away from these animals!!


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## Gaer (Apr 3, 2022)

When gun registration and confiscation comes around, might this statement be looked to as admission?


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## HoneyNut (Apr 3, 2022)

No guns.  

My daughter's boyfriend (that she lives with) does, and it worries me because he's imbued her with an (in my opinion) overblown fear of 'invasion' and also because she has a number of emotional/psychological conditions that I doubt he knows of.


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## StarSong (Apr 3, 2022)

Not sure why people would discuss whether they have guns in their home on a public forum.


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## win231 (Apr 3, 2022)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> We don't have a gun.
> I really don't understand the concept of having a gun in the home for protection.
> Both of my kids have a gun which is unloaded, and in a safe in some obscure area of the house.
> So when the burglar comes into your home do you kindly ask him to wait while you go to the safe, fiddle with the combination ,load the gun and then find the guy and shoot him?
> I'm pretty sure I would have better results with a baseball bat or frying pan.


No, you don't kindly ask an intruder to wait while you go to the safe, fiddle with the combination, load the gun and then find the guy and shoot him.  That would make you an idiot.
You have the gun already loaded in a quick-access lockbox to keep it unaccessible to unauthorized persons but available to you in an emergency.


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## tortiecat (Apr 3, 2022)

*I don't know anyone who has a gun except for a few hunters.
I don't think Canadians are as obsess with firearms as our
neighbours to the soouth.*


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## Judycat (Apr 3, 2022)

Yes I have so many guns I don't know where to put them anymore. It's like they are breeding or something. Every so many months I go looking for something and I have to move all these guns and ammo. It is a real irritation.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Apr 3, 2022)

win231 said:


> No, you don't kindly ask an intruder to wait while you go to the safe, fiddle with the combination, load the gun and then find the guy and shoot him. That would make you an idiot.
> You have the gun already loaded in a quick-access lockbox to keep it unaccessible to unauthorized persons but available to you in an emergency.


@win231 I was only kidding about asking the intruder to wait and maybe my kids have a lockbox.. They probably called it a safe because mama would never know what a lockbox was.


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## Alligatorob (Apr 3, 2022)

Gaer said:


> might this statement be looked to as admission?


To what?


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## Gaer (Apr 3, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> To what?


To gun ownership, when they confiscate them.


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## Alligatorob (Apr 3, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> fear of 'invasion'


Yep, you never know when those Canadians will try it again...  Didn't they burn the White House once?


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## jimintoronto (Apr 3, 2022)

tortiecat said:


> *I don't know anyone who has a gun except for a few hunters.
> I don't think Canadians are as obsess with firearms as our
> neighbours to the soouth.*


Tortiecat. Millions of Canadians own legal rifles and shotguns, for hunting use. Hand guns in Canada are VERY restricted . In order to get a permit to posses a hand gun in Canada, the applicant has to pass a number of RCMP investigations, and once they have the permit, they can ONLY shoot the pistol at a registered gun range. If  an immediate family member objects to the application it will be denied, and of course no one with a criminal record is going to be approved  for a gun license, of  any kind. They can only transport the pistol directly from their home to the gun range, and then directly back home again in a gun case that is locked . The pistol must be stored unloaded, with a trigger lock on it, in a approved gun safe, at all times. The ammunition must be stored in a different gun safe.

 Rifles and shotguns must be stored safely, unloaded with a trigger lock. Hunters must be licensed, and can only transport rifles or shotguns in a vehicle during the time period of a hunting season. No one in Canada ( with a few very specific exceptions ) can carry a hand gun in public. The exceptions are, on duty Police officers. On duty armored cash truck guards, and members  of the Canadian Forces, while on duty. About 7,000 people in Canada have a "wilderness hand gun permit " that allows them to carry a hand gun in the course of their employment as trappers, hunting guides, or exploration crew members in the oil or mining industries. In Canada off duty Police are not armed. JimB.


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## jimintoronto (Apr 3, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Yep, you never know when those Canadians will try it again...  Didn't they burn the White House once?


Correction. British troops who had recently arrived in the US, after fighting the French in Europe, did that. No Canadians were involved at all. JimB.


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## Forerunner (Apr 3, 2022)

A gun? Nooo! I'm a good Canadian...only bad people have guns!


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## Macfan (Apr 3, 2022)

Some things simply shouldn't be asked here, and definitely shouldn't be answered. Just a word to the wise - think. Don...


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## AnnieA (Apr 3, 2022)

Gaer said:


> To gun ownership, when they confiscate them.



Who, exactly, do you think is going to knock on doors and take guns from people unwilling to give them up?  A cop, sherriff's deputy?  There would have to be martial law and the military deployed to do that.  There are an estimated 600,000 fully automated machine guns owned by US civilians.   Semi-automatic rifles number in the millions.


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## AnnieA (Apr 3, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Not sure why people would discuss whether they have guns in their home on a public forum.



It's legal here.  Anyone with law enforcement access knows I have one because I went through training and a certification process to get a carry permit that's valid in all but 15 states.


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## Forerunner (Apr 3, 2022)

Here in Canada, we're armed with hockey sticks...if you're a good shot, you can do a lot of damage with a frozen puck!


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## Lavinia (Apr 3, 2022)

Macfan said:


> Some things simply shouldn't be asked here, and definitely shouldn't be answered. Just a word to the wise - think. Don...


True...not sure whether people are boasting or warning.


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## hollydolly (Apr 3, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> True...not sure whether people are boasting or warning.


I'm doing neither I'm just answering the question... Many country people in the UK are legal gun owners..


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## StarSong (Apr 3, 2022)

Macfan said:


> Some things simply shouldn't be asked here, and definitely shouldn't be answered. Just a word to the wise - think. Don...


That's what I was getting at, too.


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## Trish (Apr 3, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I'm doing neither I'm just answering the question... Many country people in the UK are legal gun owners..


You did boast about having two rolling pins though


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## Lavinia (Apr 3, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I'm doing neither I'm just answering the question... Many country people in the UK are legal gun owners..


Anyone who has livestock needs to possess a gun. Those who enjoy killing animals for pleasure should hire a gun for the purpose.
However, the question was directed at those who live alone, so the implication is about having guns for defence.


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## charry (Apr 3, 2022)

No gun…….Just a Baseball Bat …..


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## Alligatorob (Apr 3, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Not sure why people would discuss whether they have guns in their home on a public forum.


The forum may be public, but our identities are not.

Not that it matters much to me, I pretty much tell anyone who asks...


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## Timewise 60+ (Apr 3, 2022)

Gaer said:


> When gun registration and confiscation comes around, might this statement be looked to as admission?


Gaer.... In the USA it is estimated that we have 325,000 active police officers and 1.3 million active people in the military.  That says that at most, around 1.7 million officials are available to come take our guns.  The most conservative estimate I could find say that in the USA over 72 million people own one of more guns.  And you can bet that more than half of those know how to use the guns to defend themselves and family.

Therefore, I do not lose any sleep about anyone coming around to confiscate my guns or force me to register them with the government.


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## Timewise 60+ (Apr 3, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Not sure why people would discuss whether they have guns in their home on a public forum.


Because it encourages people not to come into our homes without an invitation...!


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## Gaer (Apr 3, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Gaer.... In the USA it is estimated that we have 325,000 active police officers and 1.3 million active people in the military.  That says that at most, around 1.7 million officials are available to come take our guns.  The most conservative estimate I could find say that in the USA over 72 million people own one of more guns.  And you can bet that more than half of those know how to use the guns to defend themselves and family.
> 
> Therefore, I do not lose any sleep about anyone coming around to confiscate my guns or force me to register them with the government.


I don't lose sleep.
This will probably not happen in my lifetime.
IMO, It WILL happen.  
Forgive me.  I've said my piece and don't want to argue this.


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## Timewise 60+ (Apr 3, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> True...not sure whether people are boasting or warning.


The ladder


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## Pepper (Apr 3, 2022)




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## hollydolly (Apr 3, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> Anyone who has livestock needs to possess a gun. Those who enjoy killing animals for pleasure should hire a gun for the purpose.
> However, the question was directed at those who live alone, so the implication is about having guns for defence.


well I live alone and I would have no qualms about using my gun for defence if I had to..... I have a legal licence to defend myself if need be..


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## oldpop (Apr 3, 2022)

No guns but I keep a tactical slingshot on the nightstand beside my bed for just in case.


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## Timewise 60+ (Apr 3, 2022)

Pepper said:


> View attachment 215854


Can't Spell, but can shoot!


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## SeniorBen (Apr 3, 2022)

I have nothing against guns and have shot a few in my younger days; I just have no desire to own one, although if someone offered me one for free, I'd gladly take it, although it would probably just sit in the closet. 

That said, I've been thinking about getting into archery. I could do that in my backyard.


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## StarSong (Apr 3, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Because it encourages people not to come into our homes without an invitation...!


Or it encourages people to come into your home, fully armed, and steal them.


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## Becky1951 (Apr 3, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> How many people ( on this forum ) who live alone, have a gun ? JimB.


I have more then one.


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## hollydolly (Apr 3, 2022)

Trish said:


> You did boast about having two rolling pins though


well that's worth bragging about dontchathink.. ?


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## Murrmurr (Apr 3, 2022)

No, I don't currently live alone, but yes, I do own guns. The rules here say no guns allowed, and the apartment manager does annual inspections, however, they aren't allowed to look into drawers, cabinets, gun safes, or the refrigerator.

Multiple choice question: Where does Frank keep his guns?


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## Geezer Garage (Apr 3, 2022)

Worked well for David.



oldpop said:


> No guns but I keep a tactical slingshot on the nightstand beside my bed for just in case.


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## Trish (Apr 4, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> well that's worth bragging about dontchathink.. ?


I'm well jell


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## timoc (Apr 4, 2022)

You live alone ? Do you keep a gun in your residence ?​
*Yes, well no, not any more*, those iron balls were awful heavy, and I never could get the powder to ignite.


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## Trish (Apr 4, 2022)

timoc said:


> You live alone ? Do you keep a gun in your residence ?​
> *Yes, well no, not any more*, those iron balls were awful heavy, and I never could get the powder to ignite.


An inheritance from your great grand-daddy, Guy Fawkes, no doubt


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## Geezer Garage (Apr 4, 2022)

I know your not allowed to divulge, but 008 no doubt.



hollydolly said:


> well I live alone and I would have no qualms about using my gun for defence if I had to..... I have a legal licence to defend myself if need be..


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## Timewise 60+ (Apr 4, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Or it encourages people to come into your home, fully armed, and steal them.


What data do you have to support that comment?  I bet NONE!  Not logical.


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## StarSong (Apr 4, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> What data do you have to support that comment?  I bet NONE!  Not logical.


https://www.ktnv.com/news/13-most-commonly-stolen-items-during-home-burglaries
https://www.businessinsider.com/criminals-steal-guns-from-legal-gun-owners-2017-11?op=1

Police and insurance companies strongly caution against people disclosing what valuables they own (guns included) on social media.


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## Timewise 60+ (Apr 4, 2022)

StarSong said:


> https://www.ktnv.com/news/13-most-commonly-stolen-items-during-home-burglaries
> https://www.businessinsider.com/criminals-steal-guns-from-legal-gun-owners-2017-11?op=1
> 
> Police and insurance companies strongly caution against people disclosing what valuables they own (guns included) on social media.


As they say "commonly stolen items" but they are not what they come in for, unless you are a collector,...and if they know you have guns, they are likely to hit someone who may not have guns, that is pure logic!   Nuff said!


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## StarSong (Apr 4, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> As they say "commonly stolen items" but they are not what they come in for, unless you are a collector,...*and if they know you have guns, they are likely to hit someone who may not have guns, *that is pure logic!   Nuff said!


Unless they know you're not at home, of course.   

But agreed, enough said on this.


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## Pepper (Apr 4, 2022)

StarSong said:


> https://www.ktnv.com/news/13-most-commonly-stolen-items-during-home-burglaries
> https://www.businessinsider.com/criminals-steal-guns-from-legal-gun-owners-2017-11?op=1
> 
> Police and insurance companies strongly caution against people disclosing what valuables they own (guns included) on *social media.*


Doesn't that mean Facebook, etc. where real names & locations are given?   I don't think most of us would be found easily.


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## Don M. (Apr 4, 2022)

With regard to this Sacramento shooting....and many other such incidents...I suspect that the culprits and victims were associated with competing street/drug gangs.  I haven't seen any names or details released to the media, but I'd say the odds are pretty good that this bar encounter was a gathering of local thugs.


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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 4, 2022)

C50 said:


> I have been around and owned guns my entire life but never worried about keeping a gun easily accessible until a few years ago.
> 
> I now live alone and my house is secluded and we'll back off the road.  One day while working in the pasture an unfimilar pick up came down my drive and two young guys get out, walk over to me trying to sell me left over asphalt "from another job", an obvious scam.  A week later another truck pulls in while I'm out mowing inside a fenced pasture, another two guys get out and start to crawl thru my fence.  I yelled to stay there, I shut off the mower and asked what they wanted.  They claimed to be looking for a dog and wanted to show me a picture in case I see it, I told them to get out and they got very pissy.  I couldn't help but think these guys were all working ttogether looking for places to rob and it worried me.
> 
> Both times I was well away from the house and defenseless.  Sense then anytime I am outside I carry a gun,  and I also keep a gun handy while in the house.


I'll bet the pickup was a white truck. That happened to me. too. One guy comes to the door with the story about extra asphalt. The other guy goes behind the house. I saw on v, they are a large rip off family.
Nope. No guns. I am totally anti-gun. I think hunters could have rifles, Hand guns- no way for everybody.


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## SeniorBen (Apr 4, 2022)

Don M. said:


> With regard to this Sacramento shooting....and many other such incidents...I suspect that the culprits and victims were associated with competing street/drug gangs.  I haven't seen any names or details released to the media, but I'd say the odds are pretty good that this bar encounter was a gathering of local thugs.


That's what I was thinking but I didn't want to come across as a racist.


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## jimintoronto (Apr 4, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> That's what I was thinking but I didn't want to come across as a racist.


The last time I looked.......Criminals come  in ALL races and skin colors. Calling somebody a criminal is not racist in my opinion. JimB.


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## charry (Apr 4, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Because it encourages people not to come into our homes without an invitation...!


Over here in the uk…if you have a gun , you can’t use it anyway….
because if you harm someone….you with the gun will go to prison, not the person, who has burgled your house, beat you up, or tried to rape you…..


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## Timewise 60+ (Apr 4, 2022)

charry said:


> Over here in the uk…if you have a gun , you can’t use it anyway….
> because if you harm someone….you with the gun will go to prison, not the person, who has burgled your house, beat you up, or tried to rape you…..


I am sorry that is the way in the United Kingdom.  Most Americans in my generation love the British because many of us had parents or grandparents that passed thru England on their way to fight in Europe.  Everyone I have talked to indicated the English people treated them very well during there brief time in England.  My Dad was only 19 when he came through, he was homesick and afraid, but his time in England helped him. 

God save the Queen...we all love her too!  She is such a strong women...


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## charry (Apr 4, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> I am sorry that is the way in the United Kingdom.  Most Americans in my generation love the British because many of us had parents or grandparents that passed thru England on their way to fight in Europe.  Everyone I have talked to indicated the English people treated them very well during there brief time in England.  My Dad was only 19 when he came through, he was homesick and afraid, but his time in England helped him.
> 
> God save the Queen...we all love her too!  She is such a strong women...


Yes England is an ok place to live, and the queen has done a wonderful job of reigning  but our standards are strange compared to other countries….


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## charry (Apr 4, 2022)

Time wise…………this is what I’m talking about ………….

Anthony Edward Martin (born 16 December 1944) is a farmer from Norfolk, England, who shot a burglar dead in his home in August 1999. There was much sympathy for Martin and enthusiastic support for the right to defend one's own home. Was put into prison for 5 yrs ……


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-49355814


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## Packerjohn (Apr 4, 2022)

Ha, ha!  This must be an April Fool's joke or maybe your just kidding.  I live in Canada and no, I don't have a gun and I don't need a gun.  Lucky me!  I don't want to rain on your parade but I am glad I don't live where you do.  Sounds like "Gunsmoke" country where everyone is armed.  Sorry and good luck, "I hope they don't get you".


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## Marie5656 (Apr 4, 2022)

*Nope.  My husband had them, sold them all when he died.*


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## jimintoronto (Apr 4, 2022)

charry said:


> Time wise…………this is what I’m talking about ………….
> 
> Anthony Edward Martin (born 16 December 1944) is a farmer from Norfolk, England, who shot a burglar dead in his home in August 1999. There was much sympathy for Martin and enthusiastic support for the right to defend one's own home. Was put into prison for 5 yrs ……
> 
> ...


If you read the news article from the time...........He shot two people who had broken into a building where he stored antiques, WHILE they were climbing OUT of a window, to escape. He shot them both...In the back. He was convicted, but in a later appeal , he was judged to have a " persecution complex " and his sentence was reduced to three years. Read the link that was provided, and come to your own conclusions. JimB.


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## charry (Apr 4, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> If you read the news article from the time...........He shot two people who had broken into a building where he stored antiques, WHILE they were climbing OUT of a window, to escape. He shot them both...In the back. He was convicted, but in a later appeal , he was judged to have a " persecution complex " and his sentence was reduced to three years. Read the link that was provided, and come to your own conclusions. JimB.


I still think it was wrong , it was his home….and he just wanted to protect himself..
I would do the same ……


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## Remy (Apr 4, 2022)

Live alone. No gun.


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## Trish (Apr 4, 2022)

charry said:


> I still think it was wrong , it was his home….and he just wanted to protect himself..
> I would do the same ……


Me too.  He was, by all accounts I have read, a quiet man who lived alone in a remote farmhouse.  His property had been targeted by thieves on multiple occasions.  Tony Martin did have an unlicensed gun and it is, of course, tragic that a young lad died but, I think what he did was understandable.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 4, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> That's what I was thinking but I didn't want to come across as a racist.


Sacramento has gangs of many colors; The Bahalana, Beast Mobb, the Insane Viet Boys (IVBees), the Lemon Hill Posse, Menace Of Destruction, Oriental Boys, Wah Ching East (WCE), Sac Town Bad Boys, Tiny Little Rascalz (TLR) and it's break-off gang, the TRG (Tiny Rascals Gang), Viet Pride Gangsters, Meadowview Bloods (in my area), Asian Brotherhood, Barrio Pachuco Nortenos, Blacc Boy Crip, the Flats, Southside Gang, and the West Enders (also in my area).

That's not even half of them, which is why the investigation is so challenging.


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## john19485 (Apr 4, 2022)

Always, never left home, without my two , when I was working


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## IrisSenior (Apr 4, 2022)

I don't live alone.
I will never live alone if I have any say.
A dog if no people.
As for a gun...I would never have one in my house.
Although, when I was a kid, my oldest brother had a shotgun but now that he is dead (not by the shotgun), I can't ask him why he had one.


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## SeniorBen (Apr 4, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Sacramento has gangs of many colors; The Bahalana, Beast Mobb, the Insane Viet Boys (IVBees), the Lemon Hill Posse, Menace Of Destruction, Oriental Boys, Wah Ching East (WCE), Sac Town Bad Boys, Tiny Little Rascalz (TLR) and it's break-off gang, the TRG (Tiny Rascals Gang), Viet Pride Gangsters, Meadowview Bloods (in my area), Asian Brotherhood, Barrio Pachuco Nortenos, Blacc Boy Crip, the Flats, Southside Gang, and the West Enders (also in my area).
> 
> That's not even half of them, which is why the investigation is so challenging.


That's a shame. Perhaps the National Guard needs to patrol the streets in Sacramento to get these gangs under control and give these kids a chance in life. They're growing up around gangs and violence and are put down if they try to do well in school. In their culture, there's a strong stigma against trying to make it the traditional way — through education and hard work, so it just reinforces the violence and crime. I'd be willing to bet that the honest people in Sacramento would welcome the National Guard or a heavy police presence with open arms if it made their neighborhoods safe and allowed their children to receive a good education.


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## J-Kat (Apr 4, 2022)

I have an unloaded .22 revolver under my bed in its box with some 22LR bullets.  I have not fired, cleaned or oiled it in over 15 years so it would probably blow up in my face if I used it.  I have a home security system and cameras at exit doors plus a yappy little dog that has extremely good hearing so I feel safe enough.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 4, 2022)

Don M. said:


> I own several firearms...mostly just locked up in a safe in the basement.  I used to like to hunt, but now the only time I do any shooting is perhaps once a year I put a couple of rounds through each, clean them, and put them back in the safe.  When we lived in the city, I kept a couple in the house, just in case, but now, living in this rural, crime free area, I no longer feel the "need".  I do keep a nice .22 rifle in the closet, and in the Summertime, I often "eliminate" a couple of Armadillo's if/when they appear in the yard.


Do you really have to do that?  They have a right to live just like you.


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## Don M. (Apr 4, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Sacramento has gangs of many colors; The Bahalana, Beast Mobb, the Insane Viet Boys (IVBees), the Lemon Hill Posse, Menace Of Destruction, Oriental Boys, Wah Ching East (WCE), Sac Town Bad Boys, Tiny Little Rascalz (TLR) and it's break-off gang, the TRG (Tiny Rascals Gang), Viet Pride Gangsters, Meadowview Bloods (in my area), Asian Brotherhood, Barrio Pachuco Nortenos, Blacc Boy Crip, the Flats, Southside Gang, and the West Enders (also in my area).
> 
> That's not even half of them, which is why the investigation is so challenging.


Yup, and you can bet that these thugs will Never cooperate in any police investigation.  California has the largest Latino population in the U.S. and I can see the day coming when it changes its name to Mexifornia.

Years ago, the Crips and Bloods were the dominant gangs in California.  Now the Latino gangs have largely eliminated those groups, and taken over as the "supreme" authorities in that region.


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## Don M. (Apr 4, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> Do you really have to do that?  They have a right to live just like you.


See my post #21, in this thread.


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## Ladybj (Apr 4, 2022)

Once upon a time my mom ( may she RIP) owned a gun for years.  One particular night, (we were all grown out on our own) but my younger brother lived with her. He came home late one night and she was not aware it was him and she shot at him.  'Thank God he was not injured.  From that point on, I knew I did not want to own a gun.  I think she got rid of it after that occurred.  Guns don't kill people,  people that own guns kill people.


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## Ruthanne (Apr 4, 2022)

Don M. said:


> See my post #21, in this thread.


I saw it and other posts and still don't think you Have to kill them.


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## Lawrence (Apr 4, 2022)

I have guns and ammunition. a pistol, shotguns, rifles, compound hunting bow and arrows. a manchette, Bowie knifes, skinning knifes. all types of pockets and sheath knifes a big steel pipe. rock picks. hammers. a long-broken axe handle. cans of mace and bear spray. cans of wasp and hornet spray killer. I only hunt and protect for myself, if I see someone who does not want guns on their property, and if they are being robed or assaulted, they are on their own and I will not try to help them.


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## win231 (Apr 4, 2022)

Ladybj said:


> Once upon a time my mom ( may she RIP) owned a gun for years.  One particular night, (we were all grown out on our own) but my younger brother lived with her. He came home late one night and she was not aware it was him and she shot at him.  'Thank God he was not injured.  From that point on, I knew I did not want to own a gun.  I think she got rid of it after that occurred.  Guns don't kill people,  people that own guns kill people.


Uh, sorry......but no.
"Be aware of your target & identify it before shooting."  Humans can't see in the dark; that's why flashlights were made.
Guns don't kill people.
_*Fools* _with guns kill people.


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## Jan14 (Apr 4, 2022)

I sold my hand gun.  I got to thinking at my age and with my medical conditions if it’s my time, it’s my time!  Plus I’m not a good shot anyhow.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 5, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> That's a shame. Perhaps the National Guard needs to patrol the streets in Sacramento to get these gangs under control and give these kids a chance in life. They're growing up around gangs and violence and are put down if they try to do well in school. In their culture, there's a strong stigma against trying to make it the traditional way — through education and hard work, so it just reinforces the violence and crime. I'd be willing to bet that the honest people in Sacramento would welcome the National Guard or a heavy police presence with open arms if it made their neighborhoods safe and allowed their children to receive a good education.


A heavier police presence, yes, in certain areas. Many good people have simply moved away.


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## Lara (Apr 5, 2022)

Remy said:


> Live alone. No gun.


 shhh.


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## WheatenLover (Apr 5, 2022)

I don't own a gun.


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## charry (Apr 5, 2022)

Trish said:


> Me too.  He was, by all accounts I have read, a quiet man who lived alone in a remote farmhouse.  His property had been targeted by thieves on multiple occasions.  Tony Martin did have an unlicensed gun and it is, of course, tragic that a young lad died but, I think what he did was understandable.


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## Don M. (Apr 5, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> I saw it and other posts and still don't think you Have to kill them.


If you saw the misery, and continuing problems my neighbor has had to endure, you might understand.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 5, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Yup, and you can bet that these thugs will Never cooperate in any police investigation.  California has the largest Latino population in the U.S. and I can see the day coming when it changes its name to Mexifornia.
> 
> Years ago, the Crips and Bloods were the dominant gangs in California.  Now the Latino gangs have largely eliminated those groups, and taken over as the "supreme" authorities in that region.


Don, the Crips and Bloods are still huge but their main turf is the bay area. Thing is, they do have "reps" who manage several scattered neighborhoods here in Central Calif. These reps get set up in nice homes in nice neighborhoods with nice cars. Their job is to manage bad business in bad neighborhoods, and they get stupid kids to the work for them. These kids are convinced they can climb the ladder to the nice house and the new car and all that BS. They often get themselves killed or behind bars instead, but they rarely name the rep...that's a guaranteed death sentence.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 5, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> If you read the news article from the time...........He shot two people who had broken into a building where he stored antiques, WHILE they were climbing OUT of a window, to escape. He shot them both...In the back. He was convicted, but in a later appeal , he was judged to have a " persecution complex " and his sentence was reduced to three years. Read the link that was provided, and come to your own conclusions. JimB.


That is an offense in the US as well. You cannot shoot someone in the back as they are escaping or running away. When they are doing that, they are no longer an imminent threat to you; they are police business, not yours.

Whenever a citizen shoots someone in self defense, their next step is to get an attorney because the shooting will be investigated. Even if it was obvious self-defense, detectives have to investigate and send a report to the department, which sends a report to the DA, who sends a report to the court.


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## ohioboy (Apr 5, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> If you read the news article from the time...........He shot two people who had broken into a building where he stored antiques, WHILE they were climbing OUT of a window, to escape. He shot them both...In the back. He was convicted, but in a later appeal , he was judged to have a " persecution complex " and his sentence was reduced to three years. Read the link that was provided, and come to your own conclusions. JimB.


The same here, except you, like the police, can shoot a fleeing felon who you have probable cause to believe, if permitted to escape, they will cause death or serious physical harm to others. The facts are essential in a case like this.


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## Don M. (Apr 5, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Don, the Crips and Bloods are still huge but their main turf is the bay area. Thing is, they do have "reps" who manage several scattered neighborhoods here in Central Calif. These reps get set up in nice homes in nice neighborhoods with nice cars. Their job is to manage bad business in bad neighborhoods, and they get stupid kids to the work for them. These kids are convinced they can climb the ladder to the nice house and the new car and all that BS. They often get themselves killed or behind bars instead, but they rarely name the rep...that's a guaranteed death sentence.


Yeah, these street gangs are firmly entrenched in most major cities, and prey upon the lower income people and neighborhoods.  They force everyone in those areas to live in awful conditions, knowing that If they were ever to cooperate with the police, they, and perhaps their entire family would be history.  They are far worse than the Mafia ever was.


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## Della (Apr 5, 2022)

I've learned so much from this thread.

Persecution complex gets you off?  Don't all gun owners have at least a touch of that?  Otherwise why have a gun unless you think someone at some time might be out to get you?

I'm also surprised that you can own a gun in England if you like to go for target practice.  Couldn't any hooligan say that, or join a club if needed?  What a giant loophole for those intent on crime.


Judycat said:


> Yes I have so many guns I don't know where to put them anymore. It's like they are breeding or something. Every so many months I go looking for something and I have to move all these guns and ammo. It is a real irritation.


I was going to claim more guns than Judycat as a deterrent to robbers, but then I thought what if they needed guns for their gang and thought my house would be the best one to rob?  

Actually we have zero guns and my husband was 22 years in the military.  I think lots of people think all military types are gun owners, but no. 

What does worry me a little bit is that he's usually out drinking until about 2 A.M. and everyone in his local bar knows where he lives and that I and my little dog, too, are home alone while he's there.  I think the two of us will just go out the window and run.


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## win231 (Apr 5, 2022)

I'm not paranoid & I only have a few guns.  I don't believe in overdoing it.


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## win231 (Apr 5, 2022)

Cosette said:


> Oh I live alone and have several guns. I prefer the S&W .357 Combat Magnum because of the stopping power and ease of use. I also own a .22 bolt action rifle and a 12 gauge shotgun of unknown origin that's been in the family since the 50s. Interestingly in my state it is legal to close carry a handgun but some some reason open carry is more regulated. Don't ask me to explain.
> 
> Anyway some late nights when I can't sleep I take Old Black Mavis (the name for my S&W) out and just sit on the porch looking at the sky and the stars with Cosette at my feet, stroking the barrel, loading it and unloading it, and loading it and unloading it. And loading it and unloading it. just trying to get faster at loading it and unloading it, loading it and unloading it. Then loading it and unloading it, and loading it and unloading it. Of course then looking at the sky and loading it and unloading it. After a few hours my bones get cold and I put Old Black Mavis to bed under my pillow and Cosette takes the evening watch outside.
> 
> Perhaps I should buy a security system.


Ya know, some here will take you seriously........


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## Timewise 60+ (Apr 6, 2022)

Della said:


> I've learned so much from this thread.
> 
> Persecution complex gets you off?  Don't all gun owners have at least a touch of that?  Otherwise why have a gun unless you think someone at some time might be out to get you?
> 
> So you have more to learn...I own only 'long guns' as I am a hunter!  I have no guns for protection.  And of course, no hand guns.  My long guns, especially shotguns,  would be good for protection, but that is not my reason for having them.


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## SeniorBen (Apr 6, 2022)

I would definitely own a gun if I lived in a dangerous neighborhood where I worried about some a-hole breaking into my house or if I worried about getting mugged when out for a walk, so I can understand why some people own handguns.

I don't think there's much self-defense use for AR-15 style weapons unless there's some kind of "home invasion" where throngs of hoodlums swarm through the windows and doors and you're trapped in the basement with your back to the wall pointing your gun at the door at the top of the stairs, waiting in anticipation for the door to be flung open while eating a tuna fish sandwich...


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> I would definitely own a gun if I lived in a dangerous neighborhood where I worried about some a-hole breaking into my house or if I worried about getting mugged when out for a walk, so I can understand why some people own handguns.
> 
> I don't think there's much self-defense use for AR-15 style weapons unless there's some kind of "home invasion" where throngs of hoodlums swarm through the windows and doors and you're trapped in the basement with your back to the wall pointing your gun at the door at the top of the stairs, waiting in anticipation for the door to be flung open while eating a tuna fish sandwich...


Yes - much like these situations:


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## debodun (Apr 6, 2022)

A collector's item:


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## debodun (Apr 6, 2022)

But seriously, I have 3 handguns (which I have a permit for) and a Browning"Sweet 16" shotgun. All inherited from my dad. The Radom he brought back as a souvenir from the European theater of WW2.


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## Don M. (Apr 6, 2022)

Between all the stress of this Covid, and the demeaning/reductions of the police as a result of the fallout of these BLM's, those living in many of our cities are having to contend with increased crime.  As a result, gun and ammo sales have soared in the past couple of years.  More and more people are feeling the need to provide their own "protection", and that is only likely to continue to increase.  

Those who can afford to do so, or have jobs where they can work from home, etc., are starting to leave many of the cities.  

https://www.cbsnews.com/media/12-major-american-cities-that-are-shrinking/


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## C50 (Apr 6, 2022)

debodun said:


> But seriously, I have 3 handguns (which I have a permit for) and a Browning"Sweet 16" shotgun. All inherited from my dad. The Radom he brought back as a souvenir from the European theater of WW2.
> 
> View attachment 216219View attachment 216220View attachment 216221View attachment 216222


I thought the model 37 Ithica was referred to as the "sweet 16", that's what my dad always called his anyway.  We called those old Brownings a "hump back".


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2022)

debodun said:


> But seriously, I have 3 handguns (which I have a permit for) and a Browning"Sweet 16" shotgun. All inherited from my dad. The Radom he brought back as a souvenir from the European theater of WW2.
> 
> View attachment 216219View attachment 216220View attachment 216221View attachment 216222


Interesting trivia on that Ruger 22 pistol.  The black Eagle emblem on the grip was originally red.  It was changed to black after Ruger's partner - Alexander Sturm died.  (company was originally "Sturm Ruger & Co.")

And that Browning is as classy as it gets.


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2022)

debodun said:


> A collector's item:
> 
> View attachment 216218


Like the ad says:  "In perfect condition.  Used only once."
Much like that ad for a parachute:  "Used only once.  Slight red stain."


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## debodun (Apr 7, 2022)

I took the Browning around to gun shops after my dad passed. No one would offer more than $200 for it. There was a man that used to stop at my lawn sales ever Labor Day weekend. I had showed it to him when he stopped once and always asks if I had decided to sell it. I told him I wouldn't take any less than $2k and he said his top price was $500. I think I'll leave it to my cousin who knows and appreciates guns. These other guys probably just want it to re-sell and make a few bucks.


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## Pepper (Apr 7, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Not sure why people would discuss whether they have guns in their home on a public forum.


@debodun, we all know exactly where you live..........maybe delete your gun references?


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## debodun (Apr 7, 2022)

You seriously think someone would come all the way to my boondocks just for a few guns? Also, they have to wonder if I keep a loaded one by the front door.


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## Pepper (Apr 7, 2022)

debodun said:


> You seriously think someone would come all the way to my boondocks just for a few guns? Also, they have to wonder if I keep a loaded one by the front door.


Seriously think
Can you ask an easier question?


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## squatting dog (Apr 9, 2022)




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## squatting dog (Apr 9, 2022)

C50 said:


> I thought the model 37 Ithica was referred to as the "sweet 16", that's what my dad always called his anyway.  We called those old Brownings a "hump back".


That is what we always have called it. I have a police special with the iridescent site. double 00 buckshot... perfect home defense.  Just hangs around with the old cowboy 30-30, the deer rifle 30-06, and one of those scary guns.


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## horseless carriage (Apr 9, 2022)

The Dunblane massacre took place at Dunblane Primary School near Stirling, Scotland, United Kingdom, on 13 March 1996, when Thomas Hamilton shot dead sixteen pupils and one teacher, and injured fifteen others, before killing himself. It remains the deadliest mass shooting in British history.

What do you think that the British response to this heinous crime was?

Public debate about the killings centred on gun control laws, including public petitions for a ban on private ownership of handguns and an official inquiry, which produced the 1996 Cullen Report. In response to this debate, two new Firearms Acts were passed which outlawed the private ownership of most handguns within the United Kingdom.

This report by the American television and radio company, NBC gives the statistics.
The Metropolitan Police carried out some 3,300 deployments involving firearms in 2016. They didn't fire a single shot at a suspect.
It's a world away from the United States, where cops killed 1,092 people in 2016, according to figures compiled by The Guardian.

Of course it's easier for police to remain unarmed if civilians do the same. Out of every 100 people in Britain, fewer than four of them owns a firearm, according to GunPolicy.org, a project run by Australia's University of Sydney. In the U.S. there is more than one gun per person.


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## tortiecat (Apr 19, 2022)

*Very informative topic, thanks to all who  replied.*


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Apr 19, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> That is an offense in the US as well. *You cannot shoot someone in the back as they are escaping or running away. *When they are doing that, they are no longer an imminent threat to you; they are police business, not yours.
> 
> Whenever a citizen shoots someone in self defense, their next step is to get an attorney because the shooting will be investigated. Even if it was obvious self-defense, detectives have to investigate and send a report to the department, which sends a report to the DA, who sends a report to the court.




I heard that back in the Wild, Wild West, it was frowned upon to shoot someone in the back. However, it is acceptable now. Your post triggered my memory of a big story back in 2009, so I Googled. This guy in Houston shot two guys who burglarized his neighbor's house even though they weren't a threat to him. Certain people saw him as a HERO and he got off scot free.

'I'm Gonna Shoot!'Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."


Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said, "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn sounding angrier by the moment cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said."Stay in the house," the dispatcher said."They're getting away," Horn replied."That's all right," the dispatcher said. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?""---damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense? Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop & and then shooting them both.

"Move you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

*"Both suspects were shot in the back," *Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett said. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

https://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5278638&page=1


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## ElCastor (Apr 19, 2022)

No gun here. Inherited one that I gave to my B-I-L, a retired cop. I have made a point of living where I have no need for a gun, but if I ever feel the need, it will be a short barrel 20 gauge shotgun. Bullets pass through walls. Wouldn't want to kill a neighbor, and shotguns scare the hell out of burglars.


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## Jeni (Apr 19, 2022)

Being robbed is more then just STUFF .... i suppose those who have never been robbed .... do not get that ..... you feel a sense of violation and helplessness....     INSURANCE does not cover that ......some things are not replaced.

people  these days ......seem to think it is OK .....   ( insert reason for theft here ..... poor / high / mental issues)

Judging public  do not give a crap about they time and effort a person may have put into earning money ..... finding / buying items or any sentimental attachment ..... no  the only distress is for those who feel the need to steal ...

The victims of theft .................... should be full of PRIDE that  all of our work ................can be used or pawned or whatever the lowlife decides to do with it perhaps not seeing any value they will throw away something precious to you.....

perhaps they did turn and run thus their back to him ........ with items and were shot .........they had warnings ....

That was more understood in the old wild west


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## Murrmurr (Apr 19, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> I heard that back in the Wild, Wild West, it was frowned upon to shoot someone in the back. However, it is acceptable now. Your post triggered my memory of a big story back in 2009, so I Googled. This guy in Houston shot two guys who burglarized his neighbor's house even though they weren't a threat to him. Certain people saw him as a HERO and he got off scot free.
> 
> 'I'm Gonna Shoot!'Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.
> 
> ...


He was charged and had his day in court.

Police investigate everyone who uses deadly force in self-defense, to end a real threat, or because they believe they were in imminent danger. Sometimes they're charged with manslaughter or even murder. If they can prove self-defense, they get to go home.


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## win231 (Apr 19, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Not sure why people would discuss whether they have guns in their home on a public forum.


Only prohibited persons who own a gun illegally need to be concerned.


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## Don M. (Apr 19, 2022)

The last few years we lived in the city, I kept a firearm ready to go and easily accessible.  Even though our neighborhood was fairly crime free, the problems were creeping closer every year.  My "home defense" choice was an Intratec tec-9.  

https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/Intratec_TEC-9

Now that we live in a nice quiet rural area, I have to remember to take it out, yearly, put a couple of rounds through it, and clean/lube it to keep it from turning into rust.


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## Autumn72 (Apr 19, 2022)

I was told by a detective under cover that she has a license to carry one and I should too.
A 38. I figured it out that the reason this lady standing close to me at the traffic light was a little old lady dress in disguise. 
She was following me. After a time I figured out that another lady I was talking to young and pretty was a tenant here in my building was her for she revealed that she lived upstairs took me awhile to figure who she was. Finally she moved. I know I always have to figure out the Ys.
So yes, I should have one if zi want yo feel safer. I never go outside. Due to  covid-19


----------



## Sunny (Apr 23, 2022)

I do live alone, have never owned or even handled a gun, nor would I want to. Our doors are firmly locked as soon as we close them, and it would be virtually impossible for anyone for force their way in, unless they blew up the door with a bomb or something. I've never heard of a situation where I live where anybody needed or used a gun.

Besides which, if I ever tried to fire one, I'd probably end up shooting myself!


----------



## Vida May (Apr 24, 2022)

I will never have a gun.  A friend once turned to me for help.  She had an abusive husband and she had run with her two children.  In fear, I borrowed a neighbor's gun and intended to shoot him if he came.  After a while, I clammed down and returned the gun to my neighbor.  Good thing I did because he did come and she got in the car with him with her two children and they drove off.  She lived with him until the day he died, many years later, and then she talked only of what a wonderful husband he was.   Had I shot him, she would have testified against me and my life would have been ruined.   

It is not just the legal aspects that concern me but knowing that fear could lead me to kill someone is a sobering thought.  I don't want to risk killing someone because I am afraid.


----------



## Vida May (Apr 24, 2022)

C50 said:


> I have been around and owned guns my entire life but never worried about keeping a gun easily accessible until a few years ago.
> 
> I now live alone and my house is secluded and we'll back off the road.  One day while working in the pasture an unfimilar pick up came down my drive and two young guys get out, walk over to me trying to sell me left over asphalt "from another job", an obvious scam.  A week later another truck pulls in while I'm out mowing inside a fenced pasture, another two guys get out and start to crawl thru my fence.  I yelled to stay there, I shut off the mower and asked what they wanted.  They claimed to be looking for a dog and wanted to show me a picture in case I see it, I told them to get out and they got very pissy.  I couldn't help but think these guys were all working ttogether looking for places to rob and it worried me.
> 
> Both times I was well away from the house and defenseless.  Sense then anytime I am outside I carry a gun,  and I also keep a gun handy while in the house.



In your situation that sounds reasonable.


----------



## JonSR77 (Apr 24, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Guns were never allowed in my home. I had a BF once who took out a gun and thought it was cute to play with it. I asked him to leave and that ended that relationship.



My friend worked for a battered women's shelter. And I wound up counseling a few victims of domestic violence.

My advice to them, which is my advice generally...is to not have a weapon in the house unless you have had police or military training.

The basic thing that people forget is this: The burglar knows when he is going to attack. You don't. The element of surprise is such a HUGE advantage in a confrontation with weapons. You are immediately in a great disadvantage.

Now, with a great deal of professional training, you can realize when an opportunity presents itself to properly engage weaponry as a defense. But that is hardly an easy thing to assess. And doing work at a gun range, is not going to give you that kind of experience.

There are some basic, simple security measures that work very well.

Professional security doors on the ground level. Professional security system. A huge plus is to put these metal grates on the (insides) of your windows. They are basically iron bars. And what that does, is prevent entry into the house and give enough time for the police to arrive, before the home is entered. Otherwise, the police can be notified that your security is breached, but they are already in the house.

A big dog definitely helps. Burglars are looking for the easiest opportunity. Not the hardest. They will pick a house without a dog, if they have an option.

Oh, and don't ever connect your locks to some computer system.  All that does is enable some hacker to gain access to your house.  If there is no electronic / computer connection, they are going to have to breach a physical system.  Last thing you want is some nasty kid genius gaining easy access to your home.   That stuff is about sales.  About people trying to make money in a new arena.  And that arena is hardly secure.  A simple lock and key is far more secure than that could ever be. 

+++++

this link has extensive info, good info...


Crime Prevention and Safety Tips

From the New York City Police Department


https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/services/law-enforcement/crime-prevention-and-safety-tips.page

++++++

and a few more links:


Personal Safety Tips

Put together by the UCLA police department


https://www.police.ucla.edu/prevention-education/personal-safety-tips
+++++++++


8 Safety Tips for Women, from a Woman Cop​
https://www.corporatetravelsafety.com/safety-tips/women_safety_tips_from_a_woman_cop/
++++++++++++++++


PERSONAL SAFETY TIPS FOR OLDER ADULTS

From the Escondido, CA Police Department

https://police.escondido.org/Data/Sites/4/media/pdfs/PersonalSafetyTipsForOlderAdults.pdf
++++++++++++++++++


----------



## JonSR77 (Apr 24, 2022)

Macfan said:


> Some things simply shouldn't be asked here, and definitely shouldn't be answered. Just a word to the wise - think. Don...



I agree, no one should ever post what their personal security situation is, online.  Whether you have guns or not, etc. etc. etc.


----------



## GoneFishin (May 4, 2022)

4 rifles, 1 shotgun and a crossbow


----------



## boliverchadsworth (May 12, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> How many people ( on this forum ) who live alone, have a gun ? JimB.


several


----------



## PamfromTx (May 12, 2022)

Is a machine gun classified as a gun?


Just kidding.


----------



## FastTrax (May 29, 2022)

Two short barreled revolvers, one for traveling and one plus a short barreled shotgun for home defense. Best to have a weapon and not need it then need it and not have one.


----------



## FastTrax (May 29, 2022)

PamfromTx said:


> Is a machine gun classified as a gun?
> 
> 
> Just kidding.


 ha ha, yes. Serious as a heartbeat too.


----------



## boliverchadsworth (May 30, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> How many people ( on this forum ) who live alone, have a gun ? JimB.


several


----------



## Joe Smith (Jun 5, 2022)

Peace, brothers and sisters. bliss, bliss, bliss.


----------



## Bella (Jun 5, 2022)

I have a shotgun.


----------



## Packerjohn (Jun 5, 2022)

You know not every American is a "gun crazed maniac" but the media tries hard to paint them as such.  A lot of Americans are pretty decent folks.  I based this on having spent 2 winters down in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas and having often traveled there.  Once this Covid madness is over I plan to go there again.


----------



## win231 (Jun 5, 2022)

Sunny said:


> I do live alone, have never owned or even handled a gun, nor would I want to. Our doors are firmly locked as soon as we close them, and it would be virtually impossible for anyone for force their way in, unless they blew up the door with a bomb or something. I've never heard of a situation where I live where anybody needed or used a gun.
> 
> Besides which, if I ever tried to fire one, I'd probably end up shooting myself!


A wise person knows their limitations.


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Jun 5, 2022)

Sunny said:


> Besides which, if I ever tried to fire one, I'd probably end up shooting myself!


That would be me too.  I recall there was a NY Giants football player who went into a bar with a gun concealed in his pants waist or pocket. While sitting at the bar, it accidentally discharged. Poor guy ended up at the hospital having to explain how he got a gunshot wound in one of his legs. I could see myself doing something like that since I know absolutely nothing about guns.


----------



## win231 (Jun 5, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> That would be me too.  I recall there was a NY Giants football player who went into a bar with a gun concealed in his pants waist or pocket. While sitting at the bar, it accidentally discharged. Poor guy ended up at the hospital having to explain how he got a gunshot wound in one of his legs. I could see myself doing something like that since I know absolutely nothing about guns.


The first time I drove a car, I was terrified.


----------



## Packerjohn (Jul 14, 2022)

I'm a Canadian so why would I need a gun?  When I travel and come to Canadian customs, they always ask me, "Do you have any weapons?"  I just smile because I know the custom person has me confused with American tourists.  I have just traveled over 10,000 km in 4 provinces, The Yukon and Alaska.  All the folks I met were nice and friendly so why would I need to defend myself?  Even those guys on big motorcycles seem a lot nicer than some dirty truckers that I have seen speeding on the highway.  I suppose it's rather nice to travel without fear.  Does that make me FEARLESS?


----------



## Patricia (Jul 14, 2022)

Gaer said:


> When gun registration and confiscation comes around, might this statement be looked to as admission?


A nosy question?


----------



## mrstime (Jul 14, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Armadillo's are covered with a virus which causes Leprosy.  Picking one up can be a "death sentence".  A few years ago, a neighbors dog was "playing" with one, and after the neighbor "petted" his dog, he got infected with Leprosy.  He had to have the dog "put down" and spent months recovering, and still has to take a bunch of drugs to combat the damage it did.
> 
> If I kill one, I pick it up with a big pair of pliers, toss it into my burn pit, cover it with dead branches and diesel fuel, and Cremate it....then sanitize the pliers with bleach.


Um Leprosy is curable. No longer a death sentence.


----------



## jimintoronto (Jul 15, 2022)

mrstime said:


> Um Leprosy is curable. No longer a death sentence.


Get out of here with your facts and truth.      Grin. JimB.


----------



## Buckeye (Jul 15, 2022)

I live in Central Florida, near enough to Disney that I keep a hand gun in the house in case some crazed Canadian tries to break in.  It's a real problem down here.  I think it's the sunshine.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jul 15, 2022)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> We don't have a gun.
> I really don't understand the concept of having a gun in the home for protection.
> Both of my kids have a gun which is unloaded, and in a safe in some obscure area of the house.
> So when the burglar comes into your home do you kindly ask him to wait while you go to the safe, fiddle with the combination ,load the gun and then find the guy and shoot him?
> I'm pretty sure I would have better results with a baseball bat or frying pan.


Exactly Ruth! That's the way I see it too, especially when the gun(s) have to be locked up for safety when there are children in the house.


----------



## john19485 (Jul 15, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Exactly Ruth! That's the way I see it too, especially when the gun(s) have to be locked up for safety when there are children in the house.


Ok, if someone brakes into your house and holds your kids at gun point, fixing to shoot them , where will your gun be?


----------



## Ziovincenzo1949 (Jul 15, 2022)

I always fall back on the wisdom of our (the wife and I) two active FBI Agent married couple friends along with my big city  Police Commander buddy, who all 3 when I asked them about the wife carrying a .38 Caliber hammerless Lady Smith revolver with her when out and about, pretty much said, and this was after I told them she would not have a legal carry permit:

The Fed agents' answers were: 

"If she ever needs it, and is not carrying it, well...hindsight is always  20/20."

Police Commander buddy said to her:

"It is better to be judged by 12 of your peers, then to be carried by 6 of your friends. Carry it and use it if it comes to that and worry about legalities later, while you are still breathing."

She wasn't gonna be out robbing liquor stores. So she started carrying it in her little red 450 SL---I trained her long and hard on it's use, and she was well versed in shooting, loading, and unloading even in very low light.


----------



## SeniorBen (Jul 15, 2022)

I live in an area where I've never worried about a home invasion. It's not a ritzy or upper class neighborhood — just solid middle class with modest homes. We barely had any fireworks explosions (compared to my old neighborhood). 

But if I did worry about crime and violence, I would definitely own a gun, and I wouldn't have a problem with having to undergo a thorough background check and registration, or having to obtain a permit.

I don't understand why any honest person who isn't a risk to society would have a problem with a background check and registration. It seems to me they are afraid of our government more than anything, and that paranoia is from watching cable news and reading about crazy conspiracy theories... well, mainly from watching cable news and looking at social media headlines.

Maybe people should be given a test to determine their grip on reality and their grasp of simple concepts. I would guess that a lot of people who are passionate about gun ownership would fail such a test.


----------



## win231 (Jul 15, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> I live in an area where I've never worried about a home invasion. It's not a ritzy or upper class neighborhood — just solid middle class with modest homes. We barely had any fireworks explosions (compared to my old neighborhood).
> 
> But if I did worry about crime and violence, I would definitely own a gun, and I wouldn't have a problem with having to undergo a thorough background check and registration, or having to obtain a permit.
> 
> ...


I would guess someone who makes such a blanket statement based on pure ignorance would fail any test.


----------



## IKE (Jul 15, 2022)

*Do you keep a gun in your residence ?*

I don't live alone but to me that's kinda like asking Colonel Sanders if his chicken is finger lickin' good......*Yes !*


----------



## Packerjohn (Jul 16, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> I live in Central Florida, near enough to Disney that I keep a hand gun in the house in case some crazed Canadian tries to break in.  It's a real problem down here.  I think it's the sunshine.


No, it's not the sunshine as there is plenty of sun in the Okanagan and south Alberta.  In Florida, I think it's the humidity and the mosquitos in the swampy area that are driving your tourists to excessive crime.


----------



## DebraMae (Jul 17, 2022)

My grandad took me dove hunting when I was a child.  He gave me a 22 to shoot them with.  I never did hit a flying dove with a 22 but I would have to assume it improved my aim.  In high school our assignment for science lab was to go out and shoot a rabbit and bring it in to dissect.  I brought the one I got.  My boyfriend wasn't able to hit one.  If you grew up around guns they are simply a tool.  We were trained and drilled on their use and safety from the time we were children.  Now I live alone in the middle of nowhere with psychos across the road.  I cannot imagine living here without a gun.  I keep two loaded and within easy reach.  When great grandchildren come the guns are unloaded an put up.


----------



## Ziovincenzo1949 (Jul 17, 2022)

Not to offend Debra, but using a .22 on flying game is a neat trick if you can hit 'em...but it is also very dangerous since a bullet goes a long ways in flight, and can be mighty worrisome for objects and people out of the shooters sight down range. Unless of course the rounds you were using were loaded with snake shot? I have shot doves flying low over my head with a .22  snake shot load. They would come to my pond in the evening for a  drink, then lift off and fly the 200 yards or so to a stand of pines that they roosted in.  They had little watches it seemed, since they would arrive right on time every evening.

Where you at? Sounds like where I am located. Not many humans out here, and when it comes to "psychos" one only must, at the very least, exhibit equally psychotic behaviour to keep them wanting  to steer clear of "the crazy down the road."

I could share tips with you but some folks here may not appreciate what works for me in keeping psychos at bay and away.


----------



## ElCastor (Jul 17, 2022)

No guns here. The wife and I took care to move to a place where guns are not needed. Such places exist, but they are getting increasingly hard to find. Something to keep in mind. One night my dad, in retirement, encountered a burglar in the house. Dad had a bead on him as he climbed out a window. A cop advised him that it was a good thing he didn’t pull the trigger. So, shoot if you must, but not in the back.


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## Serenity4321 (Jul 17, 2022)

Lee said:


> No gun here, just a loaded water pistol for when the cat needs a behavior reminder.


Water pistols work wonders..we use them on our cats


----------



## Serenity4321 (Jul 17, 2022)

Gaer said:


> When gun registration and confiscation comes around, might this statement be looked to as admission?


lol I actually thought of that..


----------



## Serenity4321 (Jul 17, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> I live in Central Florida, near enough to Disney that I keep a hand gun in the house in case some crazed Canadian tries to break in.  It's a real problem down here.  I think it's the sunshine.


?? I live close (about 1 hour away) from there...I know nothing about crazed Canadians...  Now I wonder... what did you mean by that..I have loved all the Canadians I have met..


----------



## DebraMae (Jul 17, 2022)

Ziovincenzo1949 said:


> Not to offend Debra, but using a .22 on flying game is a neat trick if you can hit 'em...but it is also very dangerous since a bullet goes a long ways in flight, and can be mighty worrisome for objects and people out of the shooters sight down range. Unless of course the rounds you were using were loaded with snake shot? I have shot doves flying low over my head with a .22  snake shot load. They would come to my pond in the evening for a  drink, then lift off and fly the 200 yards or so to a stand of pines that they rooster in.  They had little watches it seemed, since they would arrive right on time every evening.
> 
> Where you at? Sounds like where I am located. Not many humans out here, and when it comes to "psychos" one only must, at the very least, exhibit equally psychotic behaviour to keep them wanting  to steer clear of "the crazy down the road."
> 
> I could share tips with you but some folks here may not appreciate what works for me in keeping psychos at bay and away.


Yeah, that was my point about the 22.  I am way, way out and can do crazy old lady if I have to.


----------



## Pappy (Jul 17, 2022)

Yes, yes and yes. My everyday carry is a .380. Fits right in my pocket.


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Jul 18, 2022)

Ziovincenzo1949 said:


> Not to offend Debra, but using a .22 on flying game is a neat trick if you can hit 'em...but it is also very dangerous since a bullet goes a long ways in flight, and can be mighty worrisome for objects and people out of the shooters sight down range. Unless of course the rounds you were using were loaded with snake shot? I have shot doves flying low over my head with a .22  snake shot load. They would come to my pond in the evening for a  drink, then lift off and fly the 200 yards or so to a stand of pines that they roosted in.  They had little watches it seemed, since they would arrive right on time every evening.
> 
> Where you at? Sounds like where I am located. Not many humans out here, and when it comes to "psychos" one only must, at the very least, exhibit equally psychotic behaviour to keep them wanting  to steer clear of "the crazy down the road."
> 
> I could share tips with you but some folks here may not appreciate what works for me in keeping psychos at bay and away.


You both may be wrong!  The 22 rifle has a bullet that if filled with a very small type of shot, that looks like sand if you poor it out.  It is designed for bird hunting with a 22 cal rifle.   I used them in the Boy Scouts when we were leaning to shoot at birds.  They would work well on dove!


----------



## Ziovincenzo1949 (Jul 18, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> You both may be wrong!  The 22 rifle has a bullet that if filled with a very small type of shot, that looks like sand if you poor it out.  It is designed for bird hunting with a 22 cal rifle.   I used them in the Boy Scouts when we were leaning to shoot at birds.  They would work well on dove!


Wrong? Read my post again and you will note that I said .22 Cal. Snake Shot WILL Bring down a dove. Works best up close and personal because it is very small and light shot. 

Although, with the years my desire to shoot doves and every other creature with any type projectile  has gone to the wayside. If times ever get tough enough I would not have a 2nd thought about killing animals to eat, but barring that coming to pass,  I shall leave them be.


----------



## Patricia (Jul 18, 2022)

Pepper said:


> @debodun, we all know exactly where you live..........maybe delete your gun references?


I think StarSong has a good point to make about why people think it's a good idea to discuss whether they have guns in their home on a public forum. What do others think?


----------



## Pepper (Jul 18, 2022)

Care to refresh on what @StarSong's post was, or what number it was @Patricia?


----------



## Patricia (Jul 18, 2022)

Patricia said:


> I think StarSong has a good point to make about why people think it's a good idea to discuss whether they have guns in their home on a public forum. What do others think?


Until now I never noticed there was a number associated with the post. I thought I looked back and read the post again to make sure, so hopefully what I said is accurate. The post wasn't generated by StarSong, as I remember. What I mentioned was only a part of someone's post. I don't know if I will go back to find it right now, so take down if necessary. Number 121


----------



## Patricia (Jul 18, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Care to refresh on what @StarSong's post was, or what number it was @Patricia?


number 121


----------



## Ruthanne (Jul 19, 2022)

None of your concern, thank you.


----------



## David777 (Jul 20, 2022)

*plastic squirt gun*


----------



## SeniorBen (Jul 20, 2022)

I have one of these on the ready just in case there's a home invasion of miscreant flies.




The original Fly Shooter Bug Gun by Martin Paul.

Accept no substitutes!


----------



## Right Now (Jul 20, 2022)

john19485 said:


> Ok, if someone brakes into your house and holds your kids at gun point, fixing to shoot them , where will your gun be?


If someone breaks in my home and has my kids at gun point, me having another gun is useless.  
No guns for me...ever.  If anyone *gets close enough to me *to do me harm, I would gladly stab them with a knife and saw off a limb. No problem.   But no guns.....


----------



## john19485 (Jul 20, 2022)

Right Now said:


> If someone breaks in my home and has my kids at gun point, me having another gun is useless.
> No guns for me...ever.  If anyone *gets close enough to me *to do me harm, I would gladly stab them with a knife and saw off a limb. No problem.   But no guns.....


Good luck with that


----------



## win231 (Jul 20, 2022)

Right Now said:


> If someone breaks in my home and has my kids at gun point, me having another gun is useless.
> No guns for me...ever.  If anyone *gets close enough to me *to do me harm, I would gladly stab them with a knife and saw off a limb. No problem.   But no guns.....


LOL - Love it whenever I hear something like that - like women who talk about their skill with frying pans or rolling pins.


----------



## Right Now (Jul 20, 2022)

win231 said:


> LOL - Love it whenever I hear something like that - like women who talk about their skill with frying pans or rolling pins.


Or when men have a gun and don't know how to use it.  Lol


----------



## Right Now (Jul 20, 2022)

john19485 said:


> Good luck with that


It worked once, and so far I haven't had any other trouble.  'Nuff said.


----------



## Blessed (Jul 20, 2022)

I use the dog method, two littles to tear their ankles and make them fall down, then the big one will come in and rip out their throat.  Of course, they will not do it without permission. Yes, I am just kidding, most people will move right along if they see or hear them, day or night.

I own one gun, or I take care of a gun that belonged to my husbands great grandfather.  It is stored somewhere secure and safe and will go to my son upon my death.


----------



## kaemicha (Jul 21, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> How many people ( on this forum ) who live alone, have a gun ? JimB.


No guns ever. Had a close family member use it on herself for me to find. That ended my love of any kind of firearms.


----------



## Warrigal (Jul 21, 2022)

Blessed said:


> I use the dog method, two littles to tear their ankles and make them fall down, then the big one will come in and rip out their throat.  Of course, they will not do it without permission. Yes, I am just kidding, most people will move right along if they see or hear them, day or night.
> 
> I own one gun, or I take care of a gun that belonged to my husbands great grandfather.  It is stored somewhere secure and safe and will go to my son upon my death.


In my younger years we had a black kelpie who would bark at anyone who approached the house. It was her way of alerting us about strangers. She did not do this for family members; they received a very different excited greeting even if they were infrequent visitors.

When Hubby went away on business I brought her inside at night for peace of mind. When she was on duty I could go to sleep without a worry, knowing that her hearing was much better than mine.

Normally she slept outside in the laundry but when she was old and feeble she was allowed to sleep inside in the warm all the time. This was a challenge. Having a senile flatulent old dog sleep in your bedroom as close to you as possible is not easy but she had earned the right as a life long member of the family.

But I have digressed. A noisy black dog is an excellent deterrent to intruders. Who needs a dog when you have a canine sentry on duty?


----------



## Blessed (Jul 21, 2022)

The two littles sleep on the bed with me, the big boy 90# black chow is either at the foot of my bed or in the den under the ceiling fan.  When he is in the bedroom he sounds like a sleeping lion.  When he is out in the den, the whole house shakes if he barks.  If someone or something is out there it is gone, he settles right back down to sleep. Sure is a big comfort to me, I will know if we have real trouble.


----------



## win231 (Jul 21, 2022)

kaemicha said:


> No guns ever. Had a close family member use it on herself for me to find. That ended my love of any kind of firearms.


I dated a woman who had the same experience; her cousin committed suicide with a gun & she found him.
On our third date, she wanted me to take her to a shooting range.
I asked her, "Why would you want to try shooting after what you experienced?"
She said, "I have friends who shoot  & it looked like fun.  Besides, a gun just does what you tell it to do; it doesn't hurt anyone on its own."
After the range visit, she said, "That was the most fun I've ever had."   Interesting.


----------



## JaniceM (Jul 21, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> How many people ( on this forum ) who live alone, have a gun ? JimB.


Not me.  But don't tell anybody.  A few years ago, a guy got into my apartment, I managed to shove him back out.


----------



## john19485 (Jul 21, 2022)

I just carried a weapon for work ,and when I was in the Military, had some people that wanted to harm my family, had people watch over my family for six months, yes I am retired now, and still carry , but people never see it.


----------



## Been There (Aug 17, 2022)

Yes, I do.


----------



## boliverchadsworth (Sep 22, 2022)

C50 said:


> I have been around and owned guns my entire life but never worried about keeping a gun easily accessible until a few years ago.
> 
> I now live alone and my house is secluded and we'll back off the road.  One day while working in the pasture an unfimilar pick up came down my drive and two young guys get out, walk over to me trying to sell me left over asphalt "from another job", an obvious scam.  A week later another truck pulls in while I'm out mowing inside a fenced pasture, another two guys get out and start to crawl thru my fence.  I yelled to stay there, I shut off the mower and asked what they wanted.  They claimed to be looking for a dog and wanted to show me a picture in case I see it, I told them to get out and they got very pissy.  I couldn't help but think these guys were all working ttogether looking for places to rob and it worried me.
> 
> Both times I was well away from the house and defenseless.  Sense then anytime I am outside I carry a gun,  and I also keep a gun handy while in the house.


I say likely they will return...unless they have been delayed....jail etc.


----------



## NorthernLight (Sep 22, 2022)

I've been in a lot of sketchy situations, but never felt the need for a gun. 

I have lived in places where guns were common though.


----------



## kaemicha (Sep 23, 2022)

win231 said:


> I dated a woman who had the same experience; her cousin committed suicide with a gun & she found him.
> On our third date, she wanted me to take her to a shooting range.
> I asked her, "Why would you want to try shooting after what you experienced?"
> She said, "I have friends who shoot  & it looked like fun.  Besides, a gun just does what you tell it to do; it doesn't hurt anyone on its own."
> After the range visit, she said, "That was the most fun I've ever had."   Interesting.


Sick


----------



## horseless carriage (Sep 23, 2022)

Pappy said:


> Yes, yes and yes. My everyday carry is a .380. Fits right in my pocket.


Apart from films and TV, I have never seen a gun. I have seen shotguns but again, that was on TV. Our police and security guards carry no sidearms so it's quite common not to have seen a firearm, here in the UK.


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Sep 23, 2022)

I have never owned a sidearm.  They are said to be good for home defense, if an invader is in your home.  I am afraid I would miss!  So, I keep a shotgun handy with heavy loads of buckshot nearby, even if I miss, I am sure they would leave the house...and need a change of underwear when they got away!


----------



## win231 (Sep 23, 2022)

kaemicha said:


> Sick


 Me?  Her?  Both of us?


----------



## jujube (Sep 23, 2022)

When I lived alone, I didn't have a real gun, but I did have a flare gun left over from our boating days.

I kept it handy and took it on driving vacations with me.  I figured it was better than nothing and would put a world of hurt on anyone I shot  in the face with it.


----------



## Been There (Oct 14, 2022)

More than 1.


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Oct 14, 2022)

jujube said:


> When I lived alone, I didn't have a real gun, but I did have a flare gun left over from our boating days.
> 
> I kept it handy and took it on driving vacations with me.  I figured it was better than nothing and would put a world of hurt on anyone I shot  in the face with it.


That will start a fire wherever you fire it!  The impact would hurt the intruder, then the flare would bounce and ignite starting a fire that would be hard to stop from burning...


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Oct 14, 2022)

Been There said:


> More than 1.


Who? and What?


----------



## win231 (Oct 14, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> No guns here. The wife and I took care to move to a place where guns are not needed. Such places exist, but they are getting increasingly hard to find. Something to keep in mind. One night my dad, in retirement, encountered a burglar in the house. Dad had a bead on him as he climbed out a window. A cop advised him that it was a good thing he didn’t pull the trigger. So, shoot if you must, but not in the back.


Any gun owner should have basic knowledge of the laws governing deadly force.  One of them (in most states) is that you cannot use deadly force to prevent theft of property; that's not self defense.


----------



## Timewise 60+ (Oct 14, 2022)

win231 said:


> Any gun owner should have basic knowledge of the laws governing deadly force.  One of them (in most states) is that you cannot use deadly force to prevent theft of property; that's not self defense.





win231 said:


> Any gun owner should have basic knowledge of the laws governing deadly force.  One of them (in most states) is that you cannot use deadly force to prevent theft of property; that's not self defense.


Anyone who breaks into my home, while I am here, will die from a shotgun blast!  He/ She will also have a large knife in their hand when they die!


----------



## Aunt Mavis (Oct 14, 2022)

I use dogs to defend my castle. They’ll bite a robber right in the n@t$ unless he has a piece of cheese.


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 14, 2022)

You live alone ? Do you keep a gun in your residence ?​
No

Not *A *gun

More than one with which to choose

Depending on the occasion 

Bedside drawer has my .357
and a couple semi autos


----------



## win231 (Oct 14, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> You live alone ? Do you keep a gun in your residence ?​
> No
> 
> Not *A *gun
> ...


You have great taste - especially the Ruger GP-100.  I competed with it for years.


----------



## MsFox (Oct 14, 2022)

I am surprised that this thread hasn't been sentenced to the dungeon with other topics that mentioned guns. A thread like this might certainly be a predator's dream. One says they live alone and then says no gun. I certainly hope they don't give out any other info about their location.  Maybe one says they live across the country when in fact they live a block away so you think you are safe answering questions like this. Seniors are a target for thieves and sickos and there is no way of telling who is a senior here and who isn't. Be careful!


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 14, 2022)

win231 said:


> You have great taste - especially the Ruger GP-100. I competed with it for years.


It's been my *go to* for several years now

Up at the cabin, my Ruger and my 12 gauge was never all that far from me


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 14, 2022)

MsFox said:


> A thread like this might certainly be a predator's dream. One says they live alone and then says no gun. I certainly hope they don't give out any other info about their location.


Good point


----------



## Buckeye (Oct 14, 2022)

"This is my rifle, this is my gun.
This is for fighting, this is for fun"


----------



## Liberty (Oct 14, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Anyone who breaks into my home, while I am here, will die from a shotgun blast!  He/ She will also have a large knife in their hand when they die!


In Texas its called "the Castle Doctrine"...yes, if they are on trespassing  on your property you have 
the right to fire on them.

Love this sign on some acreage:  

Trespassers please be sure to carry I.D
so next of kin can be  notified.


----------



## oldpop (Oct 14, 2022)

I keep one of these on the nightstand by my bed







and one of these in the front yard.


----------



## charry (Oct 14, 2022)

I have a knife under my bedside cabinet 
I hope I never need to use it …but I will…
as i have 2people to protect now…..


----------



## ElCastor (Oct 14, 2022)

win231 said:


> Any gun owner should have basic knowledge of the laws governing deadly force.  One of them (in most states) is that you cannot use deadly force to prevent theft of property; that's not self defense.


So if I did have a gun, a thief or thieves could cut my phone line, kick in my front door, and help himself to my possessions while I stood by and watched?


----------



## win231 (Oct 14, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> So if I did have a gun, a thief or thieves could cut my phone line, kick in my front door, and help himself to my possessions while I stood by and watched?


The devil is in the details.  If someone was _running out of your house_ with your possessions, you would not be in danger of injury or death.  In that case, if you shot him, you wouldn't be protecting yourself; you would be "punishing" him for stealing from you.  In the law, your possessions are not worth a life.
If a thief was _running towards you_ - different story; you might be justified in shooting him.
If someone was "kicking in your door," you might be justified in using deadly force, since you wouldn't know what he was after, and your home is your castle in most states.
Each situation is different.


----------



## charry (Oct 14, 2022)

win231 said:


> The devil is in the details.  If someone was _running out of your house_ with your possessions, you would not be in danger of injury or death.  In that case, if you shot him, you wouldn't be protecting yourself; you would be "punishing" him for stealing from you.  In the law, your possessions are not worth a life.
> If a thief was _running towards you_ - different story; you might be justified in shooting him.
> If someone was "kicking in your door," you might be justified in using deadly force, since you wouldn't know what he was after, and your home is your castle in most states.
> Each situation is different.


Your not safe anywhere now….if you protect yourself and the other persons get hurt, it’s your fault ….disgraceful….


----------



## squatting dog (Oct 14, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> You live alone ? Do you keep a gun in your residence ?​
> No
> 
> Not *A *gun
> ...


----------



## ElCastor (Oct 14, 2022)

win231 said:


> The devil is in the details.  If someone was _running out of your house_ with your possessions, you would not be in danger of injury or death. In that case, if you shot him, you wouldn't be protecting yourself; you would be "punishing" him for stealing from you. In the law, your possessions are not worth a life.


The same is apparently true of a thief smashing a case in your jewelry store and running out with a dozen diamonds. Calling the police may be a waste of time because in some jurisdictions they know that the DA won‘t prosecute because the thief will be deemed underprivileged or in need of psychiatric counseling. Oh my. I guess this is what we are coming to.


----------



## oldpop (Oct 15, 2022)

I think I have said this before but I feel it is important so I will say it again. Having/carrying a gun for self defense is a very serious decision to make. Just something to keep in mind. When attacked you have very little time to react. There is a very short period of time to make a life changing decision to fire the weapon at what you perceive to be a threat real or imagined. Those few seconds of hesitation can get you killed. Not taking that time can take a life and maybe send you to prison.

Having said all that I think we all have a right to protect our families and ourselves with whatever means necessary. My point is using a firearm for protection may not be as simple as it seems. I would think most experienced gun owners already know all this but all gun owners are not experienced. Some buy firearms for just in case and never learn how to use it safely. That is an accident waiting to happen. Training mentally and physically is the key to a more informed decision when the time arises to use a firearm for protection. JMO, take it or leave it....


----------



## boliverchadsworth (Nov 27, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> How many people ( on this forum ) who live alone, have a gun ? JimB.


if a reader was paranoid ..he or she might wonder the purpose of this question and for whom is it for ultimetly


----------



## LadyEmeraude (Nov 27, 2022)

No, I do not keep a gun at my residence, no interest. I would shoot myself in the foot likely and
accidently, mostly all my family keeps residence guns, mostly because they are hunters.


----------



## Disgustedman (Nov 27, 2022)

I remember seeing pictures of C. Hestons house with wall after wall of rifles, pistols and yes, automatic weapons. Most collectors would drool over it.

Me? I may acquire a handgun, but if I do, it's fully knowing I may be required to end someones life. I don't know how it'll work out.


----------



## Buckeye (Nov 27, 2022)

My SO's father gave her a 22 revolver and 1 bullet about 30 years ago when she divorced hubby #2.  I did get her a box of ammo (100 rounds) and a couple of years ago took it to a range and shot a few rounds just to make sure it is functional.  It is.


----------



## Shalimar (Nov 27, 2022)

boliverchadsworth said:


> if a reader was paranoid ..he or she might wonder the purpose of this question and for whom is it for ultimetly


Likely unnecessary, if the questioner is a Canuck. Merely a cultural difference of perspective.


----------



## win231 (Nov 27, 2022)

Della said:


> I've learned so much from this thread.
> 
> Persecution complex gets you off?  Don't all gun owners have at least a touch of that?  Otherwise why have a gun unless you think someone at some time might be out to get you?
> 
> ...


Oh, yeah.  All gun owners have a persecution complex - except me.
But dammit, why is everyone out to get me?


----------



## Macfan (Nov 28, 2022)

Some questions shouldn't be asked, much less answered, on a public forum. Just sharing my 2 cents . Don...


----------



## JimBob1952 (Nov 28, 2022)

Macfan said:


> Some questions shouldn't be asked, much less answered, on a public forum. Just sharing my 2 cents . Don...


I agree completely.


----------



## jimintoronto (Nov 28, 2022)

Macfan said:


> Some questions shouldn't be asked, much less answered, on a public forum. Just sharing my 2 cents . Don...


As the originator of this thread, let me ask you this question? What possible risk do you see in a SF member  replying about if they have a gun or not ? I DID NOT ask for their home address, or their name, or even which State they live in, did I ? 

 I suggest your reply reveals your own fear/insecurity/paranoia  about living in the USA. My reason for posing the question in the first place was to stimulate a conversation here. Which it did. And as another person wrote, YES I live in Canada, and yes I was armed on a daily basis as a Canadian Forces Military Police officer for a number of years, so I do have fire arms training experience. Since I left the military  I do not own any fire arms.  JimB


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 28, 2022)

The Prez has recently proposed a civilian assault rifle ban. I can’t usually agree with him, but on this I do. Assault rifles have one purpose, killing humans, and their bullets will easily penetrate most walls. Inappropriate for home defense. Buy them back from their owners if necessary, but get rid of them.


----------



## jimintoronto (Nov 28, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> The Prez has recently proposed a civilian assault rifle ban. I can’t usually agree with him, but on this I do. Assault rifles have one purpose, killing humans, and their bullets will easily penetrate most walls. Inappropriate for home defense. Buy them back from their owners if necessary, but get rid of them.


What would your opinion be on this idea. Restrict rifles to bolt action types with a 5 round magazine ? Same for shotguns. That would allow hunters to still own actual hunting rifles and shotguns, but make the semi auto rifles ( which can be converted to full auto easily )  with 30 round magazines illegal. JImB.


----------



## win231 (Nov 28, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> The Prez has recently proposed a civilian assault rifle ban. I can’t usually agree with him, but on this I do. Assault rifles have one purpose, killing humans, and their bullets will easily penetrate most walls. Inappropriate for home defense. Buy them back from their owners if necessary, but get rid of them.


Same question:  How would you suggest convincing criminals to give their assault weapons up?
And we both know they won't - which is why I'm keeping mine.  That's also the reason police officers have assault rifles.


----------



## Buckeye (Nov 28, 2022)

Here's some interesting data on gun deaths in the US.  Over half of gun deaths are suicides, and of the murders, 59% were committed with hand guns. How many were committed with rifles, including semi-auto?  3%, but in a large number of cases, the type of weapon was not reported, so that number may be disputed.   How many were committed with semi-automatic rifles that had been converted to full auto?  Virtually zero.  

So, how may of you want to take away my SO's 6 shot revolver, which is essentially a semi-automatic hand gun?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/


----------



## Packerjohn (Nov 28, 2022)

I'm 100% Canadian.  Seeing that statement about owning a gun in my home is rather strange.  I haven't owned a gun since I was a little kid on the farm and hunting squirrels on the weekends.  That was a .22 single shot.

Canada might have it's problems but the need to own a gun is not one of them.  I feel perfectly safe where ever I go in my country.  Of course, I don't deal in drugs, murder women or rob stores so why own a gun.  I am a "good boy."  If my mama were alive she would be very proud of me because she brought up her boy right!


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 28, 2022)

win231 said:


> Same question:  How would you suggest convincing criminals to give their assault weapons up?
> And we both know they won't - which is why I'm keeping mine.  That's also the reason police officers have assault rifles.


How would I convince? How about a severe mandatory prison sentence for possession? As for you being unable to defend your home without that assault rifle. How about a 12 gauge short barrel pump shotgun? Not going to go through two walls, cross the street, and kill your neighbor’s kid.

Regarding the police and military, I would leave their choice of weapons up to their rules and judgment.


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 28, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> What would your opinion be on this idea. Restrict rifles to bolt action types with a 5 round magazine ? Same for shotguns. That would allow hunters to still own actual hunting rifles and shotguns, but make the semi auto rifles ( which can be converted to full auto easily )  with 30 round magazines illegal. JImB.


Of course the devil is always in the details, but sounds OK to me.


----------



## win231 (Nov 28, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> How would I convince? How about a severe mandatory prison sentence for possession? As for you being unable to defend your home without that assault rifle. How about a 12 gauge short barrel pump shotgun? Not going to go through two walls, cross the street, and kill your neighbor’s kid.
> 
> Regarding the police and military, I would leave their choice of weapons up to their rules and judgment.


"A mandatory prison sentence for possession?"  Possession of a firearm (or even ONE round of ammunition) by someone with a criminal record is already a crime that carries a mandatory prison sentence.  The problem:  That charge is usually taken off the table in plea agreements.  And that would not be a concern for a career criminal/repeat offender who has already been in & out of prison for most of his life because of our pathetic justice system.
"A 12-Gauge pump shotgun?"  Yes, very effective, but limited to 4 or 5 rounds and slow to reload.  Great choice - IF you are only facing a limited number of adversaries.  We don't get to choose how many - just as retail stores are learning when they are robbed by "Flash Mobs" of 7 or 8 thieves.  Sometimes, rats run in packs - as in these incidents, where the limited magazine capacity of a shotgun wouldn't do:

A review of post #113 will be enlightening.


----------



## hawkdon (Nov 28, 2022)

My thoughts on this, for what its worth, crooks, criminals, bad
people etc do not fear the consequence of break laws, they know they will not get any lengthy sentence in lots of cases, in others it just does not matter....so make it tough up front and
let it be known,....get caught with a gun, go serve 20 yrs right now....doesn't matter if u fired it...but if u did fire it, or threaten
to use it, add another 10 yrs on that 20yrs....and no talk of
good time or parole, probation....just do the time day to day....and lets start demanding that anyone getting a firearm go thru training on how to use it.....that's just common sense....my two cents.....


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 28, 2022)

win231 said:


> "A 12-Gauge pump shotgun?" Yes, very effective, but limited to 4 or 5 rounds and slow to reload. Great choice - IF you are only facing a limited number of adversaries. We don't get to choose how many - just as retail stores are learning when they are robbed by "Flash Mobs" of 7 or 8 thieves. Sometimes, rats run in packs - as in these incidents, where the limited magazine capacity of a shotgun wouldn't do:


… etc.

Oh I see, but why should you be limited to a semi-automatic assault rifle. Those criminals are dangerous! 12 gauge shotgun is for amateurs! You need 3 machine guns, one for the front door, one the back door, and another for the roof! A dozen grenades would be an obvious requirement, and maybe mines in the front lawn?

Just a suggestion, but if you live in a place that must be defended from murderous intruders with a military style assault rifle and maybe a clip as long as my arm, you might want to consider moving.


----------



## win231 (Nov 28, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> … etc.
> 
> Oh I see, but why should you be limited to a semi-automatic assault rifle. Those criminals are dangerous! 12 gauge shotgun is for amateurs! You need 3 machine guns, one for the front door, one the back door, and another for the roof! A dozen grenades would be an obvious requirement, and maybe mines in the front lawn?
> 
> Just a suggestion, but if you live in a place that must be defended from murderous intruders with a military style assault rifle and maybe a clip as long as my arm, you might want to consider moving.


Nice deflection.  Nice exaggeration.  But you still have no comment for Post #113.


----------



## Buckeye (Nov 28, 2022)

A recent event in DeKalb county, GA - home owner shot 4 intruders, 1 fatally

GA Home Invasion


----------



## Macfan (Nov 28, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> As the originator of this thread, let me ask you this question? What possible risk do you see in a SF member  replying about if they have a gun or not ? I DID NOT ask for their home address, or their name, or even which State they live in, did I ?
> 
> I suggest your reply reveals your own fear/insecurity/paranoia  about living in the USA. My reason for posing the question in the first place was to stimulate a conversation here. Which it did. And as another person wrote, YES I live in Canada, and yes I was armed on a daily basis as a Canadian Forces Military Police officer for a number of years, so I do have fire arms training experience. Since I left the military  I do not own any fire arms.  JimB


I was just sharing my 2 cents and humbly thank you for allowing me to do so . Don...


----------



## win231 (Nov 28, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> A recent event in DeKalb county, GA - home owner shot 4 intruders, 1 fatally
> 
> GA Home Invasion


Yes, & still there are some non thinkers who will say, _"All you need is a shotgun or 6-shot revolver."_


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 28, 2022)

win231 said:


> Nice deflection.  Nice exaggeration.  But you still have no comment for Post #113.


I looked. So what? Bottom line, people like you like those guns. People like me do not like them. So far you are in the winners seat, but time and tragedy may change the score.


----------



## win231 (Nov 28, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> I looked. So what? Bottom line, people like you like those guns. People like me do not like them. So far you are in the winners seat, but time and tragedy may change the score.


It doesn't have much to do with being in the winner's seat.  Everyone has the right to whatever level of protection they choose - for any possibility they're concerned about.  And some have loved ones to protect, who depend on them.  That's why NO ONE has the right to dictate what type of weapon they choose, or how many rounds the magazine holds.


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> It doesn't have much to do with being in the winner's seat.  Everyone has the right to whatever level of protection they choose - for any possibility they're concerned about.  And some have loved ones to protect, who depend on them.  That's why NO ONE has the right to dictate what type of weapon they choose, or how many rounds the magazine holds.


Oh? No one has the right? Can you trot down to the corner gun store and buy a fully automatic machine gun? The National Firearms Act might allow you to purchase an antique manufactured before 1986, but even that is closely regulated. The manufacture, sale, and possession of assault rifles could be subject to similar or stricter regulation, and I hope that very soon it is.


----------



## Paco Dennis (Nov 29, 2022)

"You live alone ? Do you keep a gun in your residence ?"​
No. Yes.


----------



## rwb (Nov 29, 2022)

Germany in the 20's and 30's took away guns from their citizens.  Russia/USSR took all the guns after the 1917/18 revolution.  China outlawed guns for all citizens, Cuba did, Venezeula did and other countries are trying to disarm all citizens!!  Anti gun lovers can move to one of those countries.


----------



## rwb (Nov 29, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> The Prez has recently proposed a civilian assault rifle ban. I can’t usually agree with him, but on this I do. Assault rifles have one purpose, killing humans, and their bullets will easily penetrate most walls. Inappropriate for home defense. Buy them back from their owners if necessary, but get rid of them.


incrementalism

ĭn″krə-mĕn′tl-ĭz″əm
noun​
Social or political gradualism.
Any method of achieving a goal by means of a series of gradual increments, or small steps.
1964 The Surgeon General warning on cigarette packaging!! And now if you smoke (AND I DO NOT) you are a piece of garbage and a totally worthless person.  

They want our GUNS!!  and incrementally they are moving towards that goal!!


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 29, 2022)

rwb said:


> Germany in the 20's and 30's took away guns from their citizens.  Russia/USSR took all the guns after the 1917/18 revolution.  China outlawed guns for all citizens, Cuba did, Venezeula did and other countries are trying to disarm all citizens!!  Anti gun lovers can move to one of those countries.


The Constitution guarantees us the right to keep and bear arms, as in guns, but do you really want the corner store selling fully automatic machine guns? In an age of bump stock rifles and assault rifles that are clearly designed to efficiently kill large numbers of people, isn’t it reasonable to draw a line? I can defend my home with a pump shotgun and/or revolver, but does the Constitution guarantee me the right to a 50 caliber machine gun? Surely we can, and do, apply reasonable limits and still respect the Constitution. Those who disagree are free to amend the Constitution, but in a world of lunatic mass murderers, good luck with that.


----------



## SeniorBen (Nov 29, 2022)

rwb said:


> Germany in the 20's and 30's took away guns from their citizens.


That may be true in the 20s and early 30s, but Hitler repealed the gun laws put in place after WWI and made it easier to for Aryans to get guns.


----------



## win231 (Nov 29, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Oh? No one has the right? Can you trot down to the corner gun store and buy a fully automatic machine gun? The National Firearms Act might allow you to purchase an antique manufactured before 1986, but even that is closely regulated. The manufacture, sale, and possession of assault rifles could be subject to similar or stricter regulation, and I hope that very soon it is.


Depends on which state you live in.  Doesn't matter to me because I have no interest in any fully-auto firearm.  The magazine empties in a few seconds & is not nearly as precise as a house gun should be.  They have a different purpose - and are needed on a battlefield to spray general areas where the enemy may be hiding.  Semi auto is fine.


----------



## DaveA (Nov 29, 2022)

rwb said:


> incrementalism
> 
> ĭn″krə-mĕn′tl-ĭz″əm
> noun​
> ...


No - no - They're coming for our cars!  The've continued to make changes that out-date our cars.  What was safe a few years ago, is now not allowed.  The "gubment" is on the march to take our cars.  

If you can't afford the latest model. you're doomed to a life afoot.  Only the wealthy will still be able to drive.


----------



## win231 (Nov 29, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> The Constitution guarantees us the right to keep and bear arms, as in guns, but do you really want the corner store selling fully automatic machine guns? In an age of bump stock rifles and assault rifles that are clearly designed to efficiently kill large numbers of people, isn’t it reasonable to draw a line? I can defend my home with a pump shotgun and/or revolver, but does the Constitution guarantee me the right to a 50 caliber machine gun? Surely we can, and do, apply reasonable limits and still respect the Constitution. Those who disagree are free to amend the Constitution, but in a world of lunatic mass murderers, good luck with that.


Amusing how you speak in extremes to try to make your point.


----------



## jimintoronto (Nov 29, 2022)

Macfan said:


> I was just sharing my 2 cents and humbly thank you for allowing me to do so . Don...


You are welcome. JimB.


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> Amusing how you speak in extremes to try to make your point.


Glad you are amused, but not surprised that you remain unconvinced. Fortunately I am convinced, as are many others. Might also surprise you that I lean to the right side of the aisle, but still see the need for a reasonable approach to the gun issue.


----------



## rwb (Nov 29, 2022)

An


ElCastor said:


> Glad you are amused, but not surprised that you remain unconvinced. Fortunately I am convinced, as are many others. Might also surprise you that I lean to the right side of the aisle, but still see the need for a reasonable approach to the gun issue.


Each to his own, but certain groups hope that you and others will compromise your rights, and unfortunately, many will.  By the time you finally realize what has happened it will be too late. They depend on reasonable people to compromise and often compromising equals loosing.


----------



## win231 (Nov 29, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Glad you are amused, but not surprised that you remain unconvinced. Fortunately I am convinced, as are many others. Might also surprise you that I lean to the right side of the aisle, but still see the need for a reasonable approach to the gun issue.


More like the need to dictate the choices of others.


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> More like the need to dictate the choices of others.


That is why we have laws - they dictate choices that society deems appropriate. Welcome to democracy.


----------



## Packerjohn (Nov 29, 2022)

If there is 1 BIG difference between Canadians and Americans, I would say it's the ownership of guns.  Generally speaking, Canadians don't own them, don't want them and don't need them.  It seems the Americans feel very strongly about their "right" to own guns, to protect themselves and to really need them to be "safe."  

Funny what 1 little border will do to divide some folks.  Canadians are amused by Americans love of gun ownership while Americans often wonder how Canadians "protect" themselves without guns.


----------



## win231 (Nov 29, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> If there is 1 BIG difference between Canadians and Americans, I would say it's the ownership of guns.  Generally speaking, Canadians don't own them, don't want them and don't need them.  It seems the Americans feel very strongly about their "right" to own guns, to protect themselves and to really need them to be "safe."
> 
> Funny what 1 little border will do to divide some folks.  Canadians are amused by Americans love of gun ownership while Americans often wonder how Canadians "protect" themselves without guns.


I don't wonder.  Don't care, either.


----------



## Buckeye (Nov 29, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> That is why we have laws - they dictate choices that society deems appropriate. Welcome to democracy.


And at this point, those laws allow me to buy as many AR type rifles as I can afford and want.  You and Biden can try to change that but that pesky Second Amendment keeps getting in the way.  Welcome to our Constitution!


----------



## Ladybj (Nov 29, 2022)

My mom (may she RIP) owned a gun for many years.  My baby brother (may he RIP) lived with her.  One night he came home late, open the door to the living room where she was sitting, she shot at him unaware it was him.. thank goodness she missed. I think, that's when she got rid of her gun. This made me a bit leery of owning a gun.


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 29, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> And at this point, those laws allow me to buy as many AR type rifles as I can afford and want.  You and Biden can try to change that but that pesky Second Amendment keeps getting in the way.  Welcome to our Constitution!


Oh, and does that 2nd Amendment allow you to buy or sell a new fully automatic machinegun, or equip your assault rifle with a Bump Stock? Yikes! If not, why not???


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 29, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> If there is 1 BIG difference between Canadians and Americans, I would say it's the ownership of guns.  Generally speaking, Canadians don't own them, don't want them and don't need them.  It seems the Americans feel very strongly about their "right" to own guns, to protect themselves and to really need them to be "safe."
> 
> Funny what 1 little border will do to divide some folks.  Canadians are amused by Americans love of gun ownership while Americans often wonder how Canadians "protect" themselves without guns.


The US Constitution guarantees Americans the right to keep and bear arms, but what these assault rifle enthusiasts don't want to admit is that the right can be lawfully modified and limited in some respects, just not revoked entirely.


----------



## win231 (Nov 29, 2022)

Ladybj said:


> My mom (may she RIP) owned a gun for many years.  My baby brother (may he RIP) lived with her.  One night he came home late, open the door to the living room where she was sitting, she shot at him unaware it was him.. thank goodness she missed. I think, that's when she got rid of her gun. This made me a bit leery of owning a gun.


Good idea.  People who lack basic common sense shouldn't own guns.  
They shouldn't drive, either.
No gun has a brain.  It relies on its owner's brain.


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## rwb (Nov 30, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Oh, and does that 2nd Amendment allow you to buy or sell a new fully automatic machine gun, or equip your assault rifle with a Bump Stock? Yikes! If not, why not???


Yes!!


----------



## ElCastor (Nov 30, 2022)

rwb said:


> Yes!!


Fortunately, not quite as simple as that “Yes”. Hopefully ownership and sale of assault rifles will soon be just as difficult.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-it-now-nearly-impossible-own-machine-gun-178559

https://www.wlwt.com/article/it-is-...wn-a-bump-stock-in-the-united-states/26950330


----------



## SeniorBen (Nov 30, 2022)

In a related story... I was wondering how Oathkeeper founder and convicted seditionist  Stewart Rhodes lost his eye.





Turns out, he accidentally shot himself with a .22 pistol!


----------



## rwb (Dec 1, 2022)

Interesting how many people enjoy being under the thumb of our "wise and wonderful" politicians!!


----------



## win231 (Dec 1, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> In a related story... I was wondering how Oathkeeper founder and convicted seditionist  Stewart Rhodes lost his eye.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, that's a good place to point a gun.


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 1, 2022)

rwb said:


> Interesting how many people enjoy being under the thumb of our "wise and wonderful" politicians!!


Yes it is. That thumb is of course a product of our Founding Fathers and their evil Constitution, the one that sets us apart from the rest of the world. Sorry you find it so inconvenient.


----------



## Buckeye (Dec 1, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> And at this point, those laws allow me to buy as many AR type rifles as I can afford and want.  You and Biden can try to change that but that pesky Second Amendment keeps getting in the way.  Welcome to our Constitution!





ElCastor said:


> Oh, and does that 2nd Amendment allow you to buy or sell a new fully automatic machinegun, or equip your assault rifle with a Bump Stock? Yikes! If not, why not???


lol - your feeble attempt to "move the goal posts" clearly shows that even you know you are wrong about this.  You keep yapping about ar15 style rifles, not about full autos.  

It is estimated that 2.8 million of those guns you are so scared of, AR15 type and AK type were made/imported to the US in 2020 alone.  (Did not see any data for 2021 or YTD in 2022, but I'd guess the numbers did not go down.) And that, as of 2020, there are over 20 million of them in the hands of private citizens. That number too has surely gone up.   And you should know that history has taught us that bans do not work.  

You're welcome!


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 1, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> lol - your feeble attempt to "move the goal posts" clearly shows that even you know you are wrong about this.  You keep yapping about ar15 style rifles, not about full autos.


AR15 advocates, such as yourself, apparently base much of their argument on the assumption that legislators do not have the right or reason to limit the sale and possession of guns of a particular type or attribute. I bring up full automatics and bump stocks to demonstrate that our elected representatives do have that right. AR15s and bumpstocks share one thing with full automatics, they are clearly designed to easily, efficiently, and quickly kill large numbers of human beings, as in crowds and school rooms. I believe that kind of fire power should be limited to the military and law enforcement. The First Amendment guarantees your right to disagree, but if you want to convince me you will have to do it with logic rather than emotion.


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## rwb (Dec 2, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Yes it is. That thumb is of course a product of our Founding Fathers and their evil Constitution, the one that sets us apart from the rest of the world. Sorry you find it so inconvenient.


I see it the exact opposite!! The Constitution is an almost perfect document and it is that document that gives us the right to own weapons.  And I am sorry so many think our current crop of legislators - State or Federal - are a brilliant group of individuals.  The abject stupidity of legislators is so frightening!


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## rwb (Dec 2, 2022)

Most elected officials could not spell CAT if you spotted them the C and the T!!


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## ElCastor (Dec 2, 2022)

rwb said:


> I see it the exact opposite!! The Constitution is an almost perfect document and it is that document that gives us the right to own weapons.  And I am sorry so many think our current crop of legislators - State or Federal - are a brilliant group of individuals.  The abject stupidity of legislators is so frightening!


The Constitution also gives you the right to free speech, but it doesn’t give you the right to shout fire in a crowded theater. You may believe that the right to keep and bear arms gives you the right to buy a machine gun at the corner store, but laws and regulations would disagree, and I believe rightfully so. Anyone who believes they are being denied a constitutional right by legislation can and should take it up with the Supreme Court.


----------



## SeniorBen (Dec 2, 2022)

*2nd Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State*, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The 2nd Amendment is a collective right for the purpose of a "well regulated militia," just like it says in the first part of the amendment. It's not an individual right.

Initially, our Founding Fathers were against a standing army and instead would use state militias in the event of an invasion by another country. That is why they worded the 2nd Amendment the way they did. But once they saw the low quality of servicemen that made up the militias, they changed their minds and formed a standing federal army. That was around 1820, from what I remember.


----------



## win231 (Dec 2, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> *2nd Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State*, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
> 
> The 2nd Amendment is a collective right for the purpose of a "well regulated militia," just like it says in the first part of the amendment. It's not an individual right.
> 
> Initially, our Founding Fathers were against a standing army and instead would use state militias in the event of an invasion by another country. That is why they worded the 2nd Amendment the way they did. But once they saw the low quality of servicemen that made up the militias, they changed their minds and formed a standing federal army. That was around 1820, from what I remember.


Depends on which section you choose to highlight.
*"A well-regulated militia" *implies the military.
*"The right of the* *people*" implies regular citizens.


----------



## RadishRose (Dec 2, 2022)

I don't keep a gun at my residence but my dog does!


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## Indiana Joe (Dec 12, 2022)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> We don't have a gun.
> I really don't understand the concept of having a gun in the home for protection.
> Both of my kids have a gun which is unloaded, and in a safe in some obscure area of the house.
> So when the burglar comes into your home do you kindly ask him to wait while you go to the safe, fiddle with the combination ,load the gun and then find the guy and shoot him?
> I'm pretty sure I would have better results with a baseball bat or frying pan.



Keep thinking a bat or a fry pan will stop a couple of psychotic home invaders armed with 9mm handguns or AR-15's.  Your in total denial.

There is no way you can talk sense to anti-gun advocates.

I keep a couple of semi-auto 45's within hands reach at all times.  When on my computer, they sit next to me with an extra magazine for each.  If predators start kicking down your door, you ain't got time to run upstairs. or to a backroom to get your gun from under the mattress or wherever.

One thing that shows me how in denial anti-gunners are is the fact that most of them do not even have an intrusion system to tell them if anyone is coming onto their property, or through a window or unobserved door.  Actually, a camera system with a monitor to see who is where they shouldn't be on your property, or shows them at the door, is mandatory as far as I'm concerned.  You can get some cheap system with 4 cameras for under $300.  You don't need high definition.

Those in denial seem to have no idea as to the savagery inflicted on the victims suffering a home invasion.  Home invaders are evil, vicious psychopaths who mean to inflict on you and yours horrible, tortuous pain.  They do not have the same mindset as that of a burglar.

Oh, and those morons who play with their guns as if they were cap guns, lot's of luck.  A number of family members or friends have died because of such idiots. But then, I guess we should ban guns because of a few idiots like these.  Matter of fact, why don't we also get rid of cars because of the thousands upon thousands of idiots who drive drunk?


----------



## Indiana Joe (Dec 12, 2022)

C50 said:


> I have been around and owned guns my entire life but never worried about keeping a gun easily accessible until a few years ago.
> 
> I now live alone and my house is secluded and we'll back off the road.  One day while working in the pasture an unfimilar pick up came down my drive and two young guys get out, walk over to me trying to sell me left over asphalt "from another job", an obvious scam.  A week later another truck pulls in while I'm out mowing inside a fenced pasture, another two guys get out and start to crawl thru my fence.  I yelled to stay there, I shut off the mower and asked what they wanted.  They claimed to be looking for a dog and wanted to show me a picture in case I see it, I told them to get out and they got very pissy.  I couldn't help but think these guys were all working ttogether looking for places to rob and it worried me.
> 
> Both times I was well away from the house and defenseless.  Sense then anytime I am outside I carry a gun,  and I also keep a gun handy while in the house.


Hurray!  Someone not in denial of reality.

I have a carry permit. I carry a Colt .45 Defender, plus a small .380 Ruger in a pocket holster as backup. When going for a doctor visit, I can't wear the Colt because of it's size. That's when the small Ruger comes in handy.  The doc is not going to check my pockets. There have been a number of shootings in clinics, etc. I ain't getting caught flatfooted. unarmed in somewhere where it's allegedly safe, such an office or building having a NO GUNS sign.  Fortunately, in Indiana, those signs mean nothing.  The law says you can carry almost anyware.  The very few places in which it is forbidden to carry are clearly stated in Indiana law.


----------



## Indiana Joe (Dec 12, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Not sure why people would discuss whether they have guns in their home on a public forum.


Why not?  Unless you give out your real name and addy, no one is going to figure who you are and where you are. The average punk is lucky if he knows how to type into a forum, much less hack into one for such info. Besides, the other methods for them getting guns is much easier. They know who sells stolen ones, they know someone without a record who will do what is called a "straw" purchase for them, plus gangs also rent out guns.  Hacking is the last resource for getting a gun.


----------



## Indiana Joe (Dec 12, 2022)

tortiecat said:


> *I don't know anyone who has a gun except for a few hunters.
> I don't think Canadians are as obsess with firearms as our
> neighbours to the soouth.*


Canadians don't have the gang and drug problem we "neighbors to the south" have.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 12, 2022)

Indiana Joe said:


> Hurray!  Someone not in denial of reality.
> 
> I have a carry permit. I carry a Colt .45 Defender, plus a small .380 Ruger in a pocket holster as backup. When going for a doctor visit, I can't wear the Colt because of it's size. That's when the small Ruger comes in handy.  The doc is not going to check my pockets. There have been a number of shootings in clinics, etc. I ain't getting caught flatfooted. unarmed in somewhere where it's allegedly safe, such an office or building having a NO GUNS sign.  Fortunately, in Indiana, those signs mean nothing.  The law says you can carry almost anyware.  The very few places in which it is forbidden to carry are clearly stated in Indiana law.



Joe, I'm sorry doctor visits are so hazardous in your neck of the woods.

 I'm more worried about my blood pressure than about the doctor's office getting invaded by bad people.  Although if I were your doctor I would certainly ask if you had a gun in your pocket or were just glad to see me.  

What do you do when they ask you to put on a hospital gown?  I can think of one place to hide the Ruger but it would be uncomfortable...


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 12, 2022)

Indiana Joe said:


> Canadians don't have the gang and drug problem we "neighbors to the south" have.


That's sort of a chicken and egg problem.


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## Indiana Joe (Dec 12, 2022)

AnnieA said:


> It's legal here.  Anyone with law enforcement access knows I have one because I went through training and a certification process to get a carry permit that's valid in all but 15 states.


This "training" stuff is nonsense.  Many, many a senior citizen may not be able to pass some test or other, so that means their lives are over when the predators come after them?  Hundreds, at least that number of  senior citizens, have saved their lives with guns. Matter of fact, the average woman who is not interested in guns, so therefore has no license, cannot use a gun her husband has placed in the house for her protection when he is not home?  Even when some monster begins kicking in her door with the object of raping her?

You people who are in denial regarding the reality of one's chances of being a victim are truly coldblooded in your efforts of a demanded agenda wherein everyone crosses their fingers in hopes that violence doesn't befall them.


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## hearlady (Dec 12, 2022)

Repost below


----------



## JimBob1952 (Dec 12, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> *2nd Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State*, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
> 
> The 2nd Amendment is a collective right for the purpose of a "well regulated militia," just like it says in the first part of the amendment. It's not an individual right.
> 
> Initially, our Founding Fathers were against a standing army and instead would use state militias in the event of an invasion by another country. That is why they worded the 2nd Amendment the way they did. But once they saw the low quality of servicemen that made up the militias, they changed their minds and formed a standing federal army. That was around 1820, from what I remember.


Jeez, I hate it when I have to agree with SeniorBen.  But he's right.  

I think people should be allowed to own revolvers and bolt action rifles, with proper training and permitting.  I think all semi-automatic weapons should be banned outright, on a national basis.  Buy them back, confiscate them, melt them down, who cares.  

I know there's not a snowball's chance that will ever happen, but it would be great to get AR-15s out of the hands of morons who shoot up nightclubs and schools.


----------



## hearlady (Dec 12, 2022)

hearlady said:


> StarSong said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure why people would discuss whether they have guns in their home on a public forum
> ...


----------



## win231 (Dec 12, 2022)

Indiana Joe said:


> This "training" stuff is nonsense.  Many, many a senior citizen may not be able to pass some test or other, so that means their lives are over when the predators come after them?  Hundreds, at least that number, of  senior citizens have saved their lives with guns. Matter of fact, the average woman who is not interested in guns, so therefore has no license, cannot use a gun her husband has placed in the house for her protection when he is not home?  Even when some monster begins kicking in her door with the object of raping her?
> 
> You people who are in denial regarding the reality of one's chances of being a victim are truly coldblooded in your efforts of a demanded agenda wherein everyone crosses their fingers in hopes that violence doesn't befall them.


^^^^ Just plain ole reality.


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## Indiana Joe (Dec 12, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Jeez, I hate it when I have to agree with SeniorBen.  But he's right.
> 
> I think people should be allowed to own revolvers and bolt action rifles, with proper training and permitting.  I think all semi-automatic weapons should be banned outright, on a national basis.  Buy them back, confiscate them, melt them down, who cares.
> 
> I know there's not a snowball's chance that will ever happen, but it would be great to get AR-15s out of the hands of morons who shoot up nightclubs and schools.


Semi-Auto weapons are comprised of more than just AR-15s and the like.  My .45 Colt is a semi-auto pistol which holds eight rounds. Why in hell should that be included with AR-15s?  You want us all using revolvers?  Those have to have each round loaded separately.  Lots of luck in a continued gun fight, like maybe in a home invasion involving more than one invader. Also, the damn trigger pull on just about every revolver sold these days takes a tow truck to pull. And lighter trigger springs are only available for a small number of revolvers.

People who know nothing about guns, know nothing about guns.


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## Buckeye (Dec 12, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> *2nd Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State*, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
> 
> *The 2nd Amendment is a collective right for the purpose of a "well regulated militia," just like it says in the first part of the amendment. It's not an individual right.*
> 
> Initially, our Founding Fathers were against a standing army and instead would use state militias in the event of an invasion by another country. That is why they worded the 2nd Amendment the way they did. But once they saw the low quality of servicemen that made up the militias, they changed their minds and formed a standing federal army. That was around 1820, from what I remember.


Well, SCOTUS, back in 2008, confirmed that it is an individual right.  (District of Columbia v Heller) and again in 2010 (McDonald v City of Chicago).  The rulings acknowledged that there are limits, but that it is an individual right.

And as recent as 2022, SCOTUS struck down a 1913 NY law that denied the right to carry in public (New York Rifle and Pistol Association v Bruen).

You're welcome.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Dec 12, 2022)

rwb said:


> I see it the exact opposite!! The Constitution is an almost perfect document and it is that document that gives us the right to own weapons.  And I am sorry so many think our current crop of legislators - State or Federal - are a brilliant group of individuals.  The abject stupidity of legislators is so frightening!





Indiana Joe said:


> Semi-Auto weapons are comprised of more than just AR-15s and the like.  My .45 Colt is a semi-auto pistol which holds eight rounds. Why in hell should that be included with AR-15s?  You want us all using revolvers?  Those have to have each round loaded separately.  Lots of luck in a continued gun fight, like maybe in a home invasion involving more than one invader. Also, the damn trigger pull on just about every revolver sold these days takes a tow truck to pull. And lighter trigger springs are only available for a small number of revolvers.
> 
> People who know nothing about guns, know nothing about guns.



I know plenty about guns, and yes I do want you all using revolvers.  The point is that if the idiots on the other side don't have semiautomatic weapons, then you don't need them either.  Most of the shooting fatalities are caused by those idiots (the drugs and gangs folks) blazing away at each other with semiautomatic pistols (often hitting bystanders in the process).  

How many continued gun fights have you been in?  How many home invaders have you driven off?  Do you live in the same country I do?  If you feel the need carry a pistol to doctors' appointments and keep a Colt by your side while you type on the computer, you've got some other issues to deal with.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 12, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Well, SCOTUS, back in 2008, confirmed that it is an individual right.  (District of Columbia v Heller) and again in 2010 (McDonald v City of Chicago).  The rulings acknowledged that there are limits, but that it is an individual right.
> 
> And as recent as 2022, SCOTUS struck down a 1913 NY law that denied the right to carry in public (New York Rifle and Pistol Association v Bruen).
> 
> You're welcome.



I agree with you as well.  The "limits" I'm proposing are a ban on all semiautomatic weapons.  

De nada.


----------



## rkunsaw (Dec 12, 2022)

I've been selling most of my guns the last couple of years. I only have eleven or twelve left. I keep a few loaded in various places in the house and car but don't expect to use them. But I will use them if needed.


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## Indiana Joe (Dec 12, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Well, SCOTUS, back in 2008, confirmed that it is an individual right.  (District of Columbia v Heller) and again in 2010 (McDonald v City of Chicago).  The rulings acknowledged that there are limits, but that it is an individual right.
> 
> And as recent as 2022, SCOTUS struck down a 1913 NY law that denied the right to carry in public (New York Rifle and Pistol Association v Bruen).
> 
> You're welcome.





ElCastor said:


> The Constitution guarantees us the right to keep and bear arms, as in guns, but do you really want the corner store selling fully automatic machine guns? In an age of bump stock rifles and assault rifles that are clearly designed to efficiently kill large numbers of people, isn’t it reasonable to draw a line? I can defend my home with a pump shotgun and/or revolver, but does the Constitution guarantee me the right to a 50 caliber machine gun? Surely we can, and do, apply reasonable limits and still respect the Constitution. Those who disagree are free to amend the Constitution, but in a world of lunatic mass murderers, good luck with that.


The "corner store" does not sell guns.  It takes a specific license to do so.

Draw the line because of the efficiency with which a gun kills and how many it can kill? Before you take away my "efficient" weapon of self defense, take away all those belonging to criminals who will ignore any law saying such are illegal. The way it is today, the criminals should not have any guns to start with, but they do. Your "laws" are worthless in regard to scum owning guns. They will only insure the disarmament of the honest population.

If the powers-that-be did their job, very few criminals would have guns, and the number of honest citizen who feels they need a gim would drop.

The real solution is to imprison the scum for looong periods of time after a 2nd felony conviction.


----------



## win231 (Dec 12, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I know plenty about guns, and yes I do want you all using revolvers.  The point is that if the idiots on the other side don't have semiautomatic weapons, then you don't need them either.  Most of the shooting fatalities are caused by those idiots (the drugs and gangs folks) blazing away at each other with semiautomatic pistols (often hitting bystanders in the process).
> 
> How many continued gun fights have you been in?  How many home invaders have you driven off?  Do you live in the same country I do?  If you feel the need carry a pistol to doctors' appointments and keep a Colt by your side while you type on the computer, you've got some other issues to deal with.


_"The point is that if the idiots on the other side don't have semiautomatic weapons, then you don't need them either."_
A question no one has a valid reply to:  (maybe you can try)  How would you suggest convincing those idiots on the other side to give up THEIR semiautomatic weapons so others don't need them either?


----------



## Indiana Joe (Dec 12, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> The Constitution also gives you the right to free speech, but it doesn’t give you the right to shout fire in a crowded theater. You may believe that the right to keep and bear arms gives you the right to buy a machine gun at the corner store, but laws and regulations would disagree, and I believe rightfully so. Anyone who believes they are being denied a constitutional right by legislation can and should take it up with the Supreme Court.


Screaming "FIRE!" in a crowded theater endangers others.  There are laws regarding this. Disingenuous ones are always tryng apply identical labels to things, situations. which bear no resemblance to one another.

Oh, let's not go that "corner store" nonsense again. <groan>

The idea of owning and carrying a concealed gun has already been to the Supreme Court. You weren't paying attention.  We won!


----------



## Buckeye (Dec 12, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I agree with you as well.  The "limits" I'm proposing are a ban on all semiautomatic weapons.
> 
> De nada.


Good luck with that.  It is estimated that there are over 20 million "AR" type long guns in the US, and God Only Knows how many hand guns, like my Glock, that would be considered "semiautomatic weapons".  We can't keep drugs out of our prisons, so how successful would a ban be at keeping weapons off our streets??

I would also suggest you wait 40 or 50 years before you try to get it past SCOTUS.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Dec 12, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Good luck with that.  It is estimated that there are over 20 million "AR" type long guns in the US, and God Only Knows how many hand guns, like my Glock, that would be considered "semiautomatic weapons".  We can't keep drugs out of our prisons, so how successful would a ban be at keeping weapons off our streets??
> 
> I would also suggest you wait 40 or 50 years before you try to get it past SCOTUS.



I said it would never happen.  That doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.


----------



## C50 (Dec 12, 2022)

Indiana Joe said:


> Why not?  Unless you give out your real name and addy, no one is going to figure who you are and where you are. The average punk is lucky if he knows how to type into a forum, much less hack into one for such info. Besides, the other methods for them getting guns is much easier. They know who sells stolen ones, they know someone without a record who will do what is called a "straw" purchase for them, plus gangs also rent out guns.  Hacking is the last resource for getting a gun.
> 
> **Above is quote, below is my comment**
> 
> ...


----------



## Indiana Joe (Dec 12, 2022)

C50 said:


> I believe some may not fear criminals being able to track them down but our own governments. You know the argument, govt. bans guns than back tracks anyone who ever admitted on forums that they own guns. Govt. then kicks in your door and takes your guns.
> 
> Could it happen? I suppose, not likely in the US anytime soon in my opinion.


They have a hundred ways to find out who owns guns.  They confiscate the sales receipts from gun shops. The find out the carry permit owners from state records. They check the stores for receipts of those who purchased ammo.  The check the records of gun repair shops. There are endless ways for them to know who owns a gun. Mentioning it in a forum is truly meaningless. If they want to get you, they will.


----------



## Buckeye (Dec 12, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I said it would never happen.  That doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.


Well, I agree with the first part, but not the second. 

But to be clear, the 2nd is clearly an individual right, and it is acknowledged that there are some limits


----------



## SeniorBen (Dec 12, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Well, SCOTUS, back in 2008, confirmed that it is an individual right.  (District of Columbia v Heller) and again in 2010 (McDonald v City of Chicago).  The rulings acknowledged that there are limits, but that it is an individual right.
> 
> And as recent as 2022, SCOTUS struck down a 1913 NY law that denied the right to carry in public (New York Rifle and Pistol Association v Bruen).
> 
> You're welcome.


Funny how for some 200 years it was considered a collective right, but because of the radical SCOTUS justices, it is now an "individual right."

The Heller ruling was just the opinion of five out of nine of the justices. Had Kennedy ruled the other way, Heller would have been defeated. Four of the five who ruled in favor of Heller were/are religious nuts whose rulings are defined by their faith, which is a blatant violation of the 1st Amendment. We have the right to be free from government sponsored religion, yet that right has been tossed out the window, especially with the recent repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which was 100% based on religious beliefs.


----------



## Buckeye (Dec 12, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Funny how for some 200 years it was considered a collective right, but because of the radical SCOTUS justices, it is now an "individual right."
> 
> The Heller ruling was just the opinion of five out of nine of the justices. Had Kennedy ruled the other way, Heller would have been defeated. Four of the five who ruled in favor of Heller were/are religious nuts whose rulings are defined by their faith, which is a blatant violation of the 1st Amendment. We have the right to be free from government sponsored religion, yet that right has been tossed out the window, especially with the recent repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which was 100% based on religious beliefs.


Well, certainly you know more than the folks on the Supreme Court about what our Founding Fathers meant when they said "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed".  The rest of your little rant just shows your own _________.

*The core holding in D.C. v. Heller is that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right intimately tied to the natural right of self-defense.
*
_*The Scalia majority invokes much historical material to support its finding that the right to keep and bear arms belongs to individuals; more precisely, Scalia asserts in the Court's opinion that the "people" to whom the Second Amendment right is accorded are the same "people" who enjoy First and Fourth Amendment protection: "' The Constitution was written to be understood by the voters; its words and phrases were used in their normal and ordinary as distinguished from technical meaning. United States v. Sprague, 282 U.S. 716, 731 (1931); see also Gibbons v. Ogden, 9 Wheat. 1, 188 (1824). Normal meaning may, of course, include an idiomatic meaning, but it excludes secret or technical meanings ... ."*_

In the mean time the law of the land is that the 2A is in fact an individual right.  The end.


----------



## SeniorBen (Dec 12, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Well, certainly you know more than the folks on the Supreme Court about what our Founding Fathers meant when they said "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed".  The rest of your little rant just shows your own _________.
> 
> *The core holding in D.C. v. Heller is that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right intimately tied to the natural right of self-defense.*
> 
> ...


In a dissenting opinion, Justice John Paul Stevens stated that the court's judgment was "a strained and unpersuasive reading" which *overturned longstanding precedent*, and that *the court had "bestowed a dramatic upheaval in the law*".[53] Stevens also stated that *the amendment was notable for the "omission of any statement of purpose related to the right to use firearms for hunting or personal self-defense"* which was present in the Declarations of Rights of Pennsylvania and Vermont.[53]

The Stevens dissent seems to rest on four main points of disagreement: that the Founders would have made the individual right aspect of the Second Amendment express if that was what was intended; that *the "militia" preamble and exact phrase "to keep and bear arms" demands the conclusion that the Second Amendment touches on state militia service only; that many lower courts' later "collective-right" reading of the Miller decision constitutes stare decisis, which may only be overturned at great peril*; and that the Court has not considered gun-control laws (e.g., the National Firearms Act) unconstitutional. The dissent concludes, "The Court would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons.... I could not possibly conclude that the Framers made such a choice."

And Stevens wasn't some bleeding heart liberal. He was nominated by Gerald Ford.

Scalia's interpretation was based purely on conjecture and emotion, devoid of logic.


----------



## Buckeye (Dec 12, 2022)

Sorry, but that doesn't change the fact that the 2A is an individual right per SCOTUS.  You and he can disagree, but your opinions are irrelevant.


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 12, 2022)

Indiana Joe said:


> The idea of owning and carrying a concealed gun has already been to the Supreme Court. You weren't paying attention.  We won!


A concealed gun would be for personal protection and seems fine to me, but conservative though I am I have a problem with assault rifles, bump stocks,  and full automatics that are a little over the top for personal protection and obviously well suited for killing large numbers of people, whether a crowd of merry makers, demonstrators, or a bunch of school children.


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 12, 2022)

Indiana Joe said:


> The "corner store" does not sell guns.  It takes a specific license to do so.
> 
> Draw the line because of the efficiency with which a gun kills and how many it can kill? Before you take away my "efficient" weapon of self defense, take away all those belonging to criminals who will ignore any law saying such are illegal. The way it is today, the criminals should not have any guns to start with, but they do. Your "laws" are worthless in regard to scum owning guns. They will only insure the disarmament of the honest population.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you on the importance of real law enforcement — Completely! Unfortunately those assault rifles and bump stocks may be intended for the law abiding but they can easily wind up in the hands of loons and criminals.


----------



## win231 (Dec 12, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> I completely agree with you on the importance of real law enforcement — Completely! Unfortunately those assault rifles and bump stocks may be intended for the law abiding but they can easily wind up in the hands of loons and criminals.


As can anything.


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 12, 2022)

win231 said:


> As can anything.


Very true, but if assault rifles and bump stocks were illegal and the law enforced maybe it would be tougher for the loons and criminals to lay their hands on them.


----------



## win231 (Dec 12, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Very true, but if assault rifles and bump stocks were illegal and the law enforced maybe it would be tougher for the loons and criminals to lay their hands on them.


Reality:  It's way too late.  Thousands of them are already in the hands of loons & criminals.  Most are untraceable.


----------



## Indiana Joe (Dec 12, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> I completely agree with you on the importance of real law enforcement — Completely! Unfortunately those assault rifles and bump stocks may be intended for the law abiding but they can easily wind up in the hands of loons and criminals.


So-called assault weapons were not "intended" for any distinct group.  As it is now, the predators are using them in alarming numbers. It has gotten to the point where the home owner needs the same type of weapon to offset the criminals deadlier advantage. Hand guns have nowhere near the stopping power of a rifle bullet, nor the penetration power to go through doors, or even a wall. In a deadly home invasion it is necessary for the perpetrators to realize they may not have the advantage they thought they had.  Seeing their cohorts dropping wounded or dead could change their minds in a hurry.  These days the police, or what is left of them due to their lessened ranks, can take a long time in showing up.


----------



## win231 (Dec 12, 2022)

Indiana Joe said:


> So-called assault weapons were not "intended" for any distinct group.  As it is now, the predators are using them in alarming numbers. It has gotten to the point where the home owner needs the same type of weapon to offset the criminals deadlier advantage. Hand guns have nowhere near the stopping power of a rifle bullet, nor the penetration power to go through doors, or even a wall. In a deadly home invasion it is necessary for the perpetrators to realize they may not have the advantage they thought they had.  Seeing their cohorts dropping wounded or dead could change their minds in a hurry.  These days the police, or what is left of them due to their lessened ranks, can take a long time in showing up.


Bingo.  And nothing less would have saved this homeowner who faced multiple armed assailants:





Or this one:


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## C50 (Dec 13, 2022)

Indiana Joe said:


> They have a hundred ways to find out who owns guns.  They confiscate the sales receipts from gun shops. The find out the carry permit owners from state records. They check the stores for receipts of those who purchased ammo.  The check the records of gun repair shops. There are endless ways for them to know who owns a gun. Mentioning it in a forum is truly meaningless. If they want to get you, they will.



I agree 100%


----------



## win231 (Dec 13, 2022)

win231 said:


> Bingo.  And nothing less would have saved this homeowner who faced multiple armed assailants:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really amusing.  Whenever I post these news items, *NONE* of the people who say _"No one needs an assault rifle; they should be banned; people who need to defend themselves only need a shotgun or a 6-shot revolver"_ ever have a response.
It's like magic.........they just disappear.


----------



## Pepper (Dec 13, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Sorry, but that doesn't change the fact that the 2A is an individual right per SCOTUS.  You and he can disagree, but your opinions are irrelevant.


If Rowe can be overturned so can the Scotus ruling.  Not with the present scotus of course.


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 13, 2022)

win231 said:


> Really amusing.  Whenever I post these news items, *NONE* of the people who say _"No one needs an assault rifle; they should be banned; people who need to defend themselves only need a shotgun or a 6-shot revolver"_ ever have a response.
> It's like magic.........they just disappear.


If you would really like to be amused just do a search for “neighbor shot by stray bullet”. I quit counting after 50 hits. So scoff at shotguns, but after letting loose with a dozen rounds from your AR or bump stock try not to be amused while explaining to your neighbor why you killed his sleeping wife or kid.


----------



## SeniorBen (Dec 13, 2022)

Pepper said:


> If Rowe can be overturned so can the Scotus ruling.  Not with the present scotus of course.


That's exactly right. The overturning of Roe sent us down a slippery slope. With these radical justices, we no longer have a separation of church and state. Religious zealots celebrate the banning of abortion, but it can go both ways. If the Constitutional right to abortion can be taken away, so can rights to worship freely.


----------



## Buckeye (Dec 13, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> If you would really like to be amused just do a search for “neighbor shot by stray bullet”. I quit counting after 50 hits. So scoff at shotguns, but after letting loose with a dozen rounds from your AR or bump stock try not to be amused while explaining to your neighbor why you killed his sleeping wife or kid.


Sorry to tell you, but I did google "neighbor shot by stray bullet" and I only looked at the first 8 or 9 hits, and all but one of them was a neighbor, outside, doing "target practice".  The odd one was a kid shooting at a bird. 

Didn't see any about a weapon being fired in self defense from inside one home harming a person in the house next door.   If you have a specific incident in mind, please post a link.


----------



## Buckeye (Dec 13, 2022)

Pepper said:


> If Rowe can be overturned so can the Scotus ruling.  Not with the present scotus of course.


Of course, if we are just weaving fairy tales, sure, that can happen.  Just not in my or your lifetime. In the meantime, keep your unicorn in a safe place.


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## Farrah Nuff (Dec 13, 2022)

Many a soap bubble has succumbed to my gun -







And yes, I do in fact live alone.


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## win231 (Dec 13, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> If you would really like to be amused just do a search for “neighbor shot by stray bullet”. I quit counting after 50 hits. So scoff at shotguns, but after letting loose with a dozen rounds from your AR or bump stock try not to be amused while explaining to your neighbor why you killed his sleeping wife or kid.


Nice try, but I would only "let loose" with whatever is needed at the time.  I have no use for a bump stock or fully auto.  And my shots only go where they belong - which is into an intruder.  I use frangible ammo that's unlikely to go through anything else.
Do you have the same criticism of police officers when they indiscriminately spray bullets & kill innocents?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...pd-rcna40163&usg=AOvVaw0zWwRSU-HW6v_sew7tsJTg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...rs/12028016/&usg=AOvVaw3rtw6TXCYlCJQvnKDEBYZ0


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## ElCastor (Dec 14, 2022)

win231 said:


> Nice try, but I would only "let loose" with whatever is needed at the time.  I have no use for a bump stock or fully auto.  And my shots only go where they belong - which is into an intruder.  I use frangible ammo that's unlikely to go through anything else.
> Do you have the same criticism of police officers when they indiscriminately spray bullets & kill innocents?


Lets be clear on this, my only problem with you is your support of the sale of assault rifles and bump stocks(?) to the civilian population. I congratulate you on your use of frangible ammunition, but do all purchasers of ARs and bump stocks share your wisdom? I think we both know the answer to that one. As for cops I have, or had, two in my wife’s side of the family. Only one shot someone in the line of duty, a man holding a knife to a woman‘s throat, and even that was deliberately not fatal. I hope we both can agree that the police Do Not condone their officers indiscriminately spraying civilians with bullets.

Bottom line, I do not support the sale of assault rifles and bump stocks to civilians, but in the end it is not my decision or yours — we will have to leave that to the politicians and courts.


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## Gaer (Dec 14, 2022)

IF:
 I had a Colt 45 SA, (not admitting I do)  since I live alone, I would be more afraid of someone taking it from me while I'm pointing it at them.
 I have my doubts that I could ever shoot at a person or an animal anyway.  
All my ammo in metal cases has been stolen from my shed.

More important than that, the 2nd amendment must be protected!  If that is taken, the first amendment will go as well.
If they go, the entire Constitution will crumble, IMO.
In a presidential speech, 4-28-2021, it was stated, "No amendment to the Constitution is absolute."
That is scary to me.  I would actually fight and die to protect the Constitution. (if it would help).


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## 1955 (Dec 14, 2022)

I take the fifth
Unless I can get my ear plugs in I don't want to be shooting especially in the house


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## Nemo2 (Dec 14, 2022)

Don't live alone, don't have a gun........but a guy I was talking to many years ago in AZ said he had a recording of a shotgun being racked......he said everyone knows _that_ sound.


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## ElCastor (Dec 14, 2022)

Gaer said:


> More important than that, the 2nd amendment must be protected!  If that is taken, the first amendment will go as well.
> If they go, the entire Constitution will crumble, IMO.
> In a presidential speech, 4-28-2021, it was stated, "No amendment to the Constitution is absolute."
> That is scary to me.  I would actually fight and die to protect the Constitution. (if it would help).


The Constitution is the foundation of America’s greatness, but it is what it is, and it is up to the SC to interpret its meaning, not you nor me.


----------



## SeniorBen (Dec 15, 2022)

Several of the SCOTUS justices are religious fanatics and interpret the Constitution to fit their religious views. We're living in dangerous times. They've already sent us down that slippery slope with the repeal of Roe vs. Wade. Who knows what's next?


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 15, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Several of the SCOTUS justices are religious fanatics and interpret the Constitution to fit their religious views. We're living in dangerous times. They've already sent us down that slippery slope with the repeal of Roe vs. Wade. Who knows what's next?


Specifically which members of the Court are religious fanatics?  BTW, I am an agnostic so I think I can be objective. Simply believing in a God doesn’t equate to fanatacism, at least not in my book. If it did, every church goer (of which I am not one) would be considered a fanatic.


----------



## Pepper (Dec 15, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Specifically which members of the Court are religious fanatics?


Amy Coney Barrett.


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 15, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Amy Coney Barrett.


Assuming you are correct about Barrett‘s fanaticism, one isn’t Ben’s “several”, so I wonder who the rest of those fanatics are?


----------



## Nemo2 (Dec 15, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Assuming you are correct about Barrett‘s fanaticism, one isn’t Ben’s “several”, so I wonder who the rest of those fanatics are?


Anyone with whom 'I' disagree?


----------



## SeniorBen (Dec 15, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Assuming you are correct about Barrett‘s fanaticism, one isn’t Ben’s “several”, so I wonder who the rest of those fanatics are?


Kavanaugh, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Roberts (and Barrett) all have allowed their religious views to influence their decisions, which makes them "fanatics."


----------



## Geezer Garage (Dec 15, 2022)

The SCOTUS is supposed to be non-political, and above reproach in their ethical conduct, which is obviously not the case with the current bunch. Thomas has refused to recuse himself from cases involving Jan 6th even though his wife was actively involved in trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. Along with this, it is now in the news that the justices have been being wined and dined by the religious right, and corporate interests. There really needs to be enforceable ethical restraints applied to the court, and term limits wouldn't be out of place either.


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## Pepper (Dec 15, 2022)

I agree with all you said, @Geezer Garage except for term limits.  I guess I still have that streak of idealism.


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## Nemo2 (Dec 15, 2022)

Geezer Garage said:


> The SCOTUS is supposed to be non-political, and above reproach in their ethical conduct, which is obviously not the case with the current bunch. Thomas has refused to recuse himself from cases involving Jan 6th even though his wife was actively involved in trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. Along with this, it is now in the news that the justices have been being wined and dined by the religious right, and corporate interests. There really needs to be enforceable ethical restraints applied to the court, and term limits wouldn't be out of place either.


Luckily 'the other side' is pure of heart, totally altruistic, with no political leanings/biases whatsoever.


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## Geezer Garage (Dec 15, 2022)

Never said that, now did I, but follow their careers, and it becomes pretty clear as to who is who.


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## Nemo2 (Dec 15, 2022)

Geezer Garage said:


> Never said that, now did I, but follow their careers, and it becomes pretty clear as to who is who.


No finger pointing from me...just personal musings.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 15, 2022)

Geezer Garage said:


> Geezer Garage said:
> 
> 
> > Never said that, now did I, but follow their careers, and it becomes pretty clear as to who is who.


Ruth Bader Ginsburg made overtly political comments while sitting on SCOTUS, for which she was criticized.  She later apologized.  She wore her politics on her sleeve, as does Sonia Sotomayor.  I don't have any problem with that, as long as they rule objectively on the cases before them.


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## ElCastor (Dec 15, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Kavanaugh, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Roberts (and Barrett) all have allowed their religious views to influence their decisions, which makes them "fanatics."


Just did a little research. Pains me to admit this, but I think you’re right! That word fanatic might be a step too far, but I‘ll buy influenced, and in this case that’s more than enough. Religion should NOT play a role in a Court decision, but in this case it’s hard to believe it didn’t. )-8


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## win231 (Dec 15, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Just did a little research. Pains me to admit this, but I think you’re right! That word fanatic might be a step too far, but I‘ll buy influenced, and in this case that’s more than enough. Religion should NOT play a role in a Court decision, but in this case it’s hard to believe it didn’t. )-8


And many religious fanatics believe there is never a justification for killing anyone, even in self defense.  You are supposed to let anyone hurt or kill you; "It's God's will."  That's why they think no one should own a gun.


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## Nemo2 (Dec 15, 2022)

Religion is, of course, a religion....but then again so is ideology....I'd posit that, over the last century or so, the latter has been more problematic/lethal.


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## Buckeye (Dec 15, 2022)

lol - can you please point me to the Bible verse that say something about the people's right to bear arms?


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## Supernatural (Dec 15, 2022)

No guns in the house ever! Have bow and arrows...


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## Pepper (Dec 15, 2022)

win231 said:


> And many religious fanatics believe there is never a justification for killing anyone, even in self defense.  You are supposed to let anyone hurt or kill you; "It's God's will."  That's why they think no one should own a gun.


I'd bet more religious fanatics than atheists own guns.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 15, 2022)

I have a 5 iron.  I probably couldn't hit a burglar any more accurately than I could hit a golf ball.


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## Buckeye (Dec 15, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I have a 5 iron.  I probably couldn't hit a burglar any more accurately than I could hit a golf ball.


The best advise I got was, if you are out on the course when a thunder/lightening storm blows in, hold up your 1 iron.  Not even God can hit a 1 iron...


----------



## JimBob1952 (Dec 15, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> The best advise I got was, if you are out on the course when a thunder/lightening storm blows in, hold up your 1 iron.  Not even God can hit a 1 iron...


The weird thing is that after 12 years I've finally learned how to drive the ball.  I can putt a little.  It's everything in between that I mess up.


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 15, 2022)

win231 said:


> And many religious fanatics believe there is never a justification for killing anyone, even in self defense.  You are supposed to let anyone hurt or kill you; "It's God's will."  That's why they think no one should own a gun.


Huh? The Court has never even hinted at outlawing all guns, and they never will because the Constitution is crystal clear on the right to keep and bear arms. I assure you that I am not religious, but I do read stories about classrooms of kids mowed down with an AR and some jerk leaning out his hotel window mowing down a crowd of people with a bump stock. I can’t imagine ANTIFA rioters armed with AR15s, a Jan 6 crowd similarly armed, or another loon mowing down children with his assault rifle or bump stock. I am perfectly OK with limiting military style weapons to the police and military, and that opinion has NOTHING to do with politics or religion, just common sense.


----------



## win231 (Dec 15, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Huh? The Court has never even hinted at outlawing all guns, and they never will because the Constitution is crystal clear on the right to keep and bear arms. I assure you that I am not religious, but I do read stories about classrooms of kids mowed down with an AR and some jerk leaning out his hotel window mowing down a crowd of people with a bump stock. I can’t imagine ANTIFA rioters armed with AR15s, a Jan 6 crowd similarly armed, or another loon mowing down children with his assault rifle or bump stock. I am perfectly OK with limiting military style weapons to the police and military, and that opinion has NOTHING to do with politics or religion, just common sense.


The actions of a few crazies do not dictate how I choose to live my life or my self defense choices.
I'm sure you wouldn't call for a ban on all doctors, based on some crazy ones.  Like this one who murdered at least 60 - without an assault rifle:  (he killed more innocents than the Las Vegas shooter)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...chael_Swango&usg=AOvVaw3RPW65ldEIRHcN_5rqR7o4

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...st-elsewhere&usg=AOvVaw207vzQgPa6Hz06j9dtN8Yj

Michael Joseph Swango is an American serial killer and former physician who is estimated to have been involved in as many as 60 fatal poisonings of patients and colleagues, although he admitted to causing only four deaths.


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 15, 2022)

win231 said:


> The actions of a few crazies do not dictate how I choose to live my life or my self defense choices.


You can defend your home with a short barreled 12 gauge pump. If you need a machine gun, hand grenades, or a mortar,  maybe you should consider moving.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Dec 15, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I'd bet more religious fanatics than atheists own guns.


If you could place a bet, you would win a lot of money.


----------



## win231 (Dec 15, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> You can defend your home with a short barreled 12 gauge pump. If you need a machine gun, hand grenades, or a mortar,  maybe you should consider moving.


1.  You do not decide my self defense choices.  I do.  (Though I'm sure you wish you could)
2.  You might consider improving your reading.  I've said previously, I have no interest in machine guns or any of your other exaggerated nonsense.  It speaks volumes that you can only make your point with asinine exaggerations.


----------



## win231 (Dec 15, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> If you could place a bet, you would win a lot of money.


Atheist & gun owner here.


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 15, 2022)

win231 said:


> 1.  You do not decide my self defense choices.  I do.  (Though I'm sure you wish you could)
> 2.  You might consider improving your reading.  I've said previously, I have no interest in machine guns or any of your other exaggerated nonsense.  It speaks volumes that you can only make your point with asinine exaggerations.


My point is, and always has been, that the courts and legislation are the ultimate arbiters of what weapons citizens, police, and the military can arm themselves with. Do you agree?


----------



## Buckeye (Dec 15, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> My point is, and always has been, that the courts and legislation are the ultimate arbiters of what weapons citizens, police, and the military can arm themselves with. Do you agree?


They can, within the limits of the 2nd amendment, as defined by the SCOTUS.  And for now, it is not likely that a ban on semi-auto weapons will get past the current court.  So why waste your time arguing for something that isn't likely to happen?


----------



## ElCastor (Dec 15, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> They can, within the limits of the 2nd amendment, as defined by the SCOTUS.  And for now, it is not likely that a ban on semi-auto weapons will get past the current court.  So why waste your time arguing for something that isn't likely to happen?


Agreed, but I am trying to get across that I believe that bump stocks and assault rifles are not protected by the Second Amendment, and could and should be outlawed for sale to, and possession by, other than the military and law enforcement. If they are outlawed it seems likely that the Supreme Court will ultimately be required to rule. Needless to say I would support such legislation and hope and believe (but do not know for certain) that the SC would find it Constitutional. If this aggravates the admirers and owners of these weapons, so be it, but I am not going to change my opinion unless the courts change it for me. Signing out!!


----------



## win231 (Dec 15, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Agreed, but I am trying to get across that I believe that bump stocks and assault rifles are not protected by the Second Amendment, and could and should be outlawed for sale to, and possession by, other than the military and law enforcement. If they are outlawed it seems likely that the Supreme Court will ultimately be required to rule. Needless to say I would support such legislation and hope and believe (but do not know for certain) that the SC would find it Constitutional. If this aggravates the admirers and owners of these weapons, so be it, but I am not going to change my opinion unless the courts change it for me. Signing out!!


The reason you're obsessed with "Assault Rifles" is because you lack knowledge about what an Assault Rifle is.  The use of the term "Assault Rifle" is media - generated to cover any rifle that doesn't look like a hunting rifle to create hysteria, & it worked.....for the ignorant.
The AR-15 is not an assault rifle, since it is semi auto.  The M-16 is an assault rifle since it's fully automatic.


----------



## SeniorBen (Dec 15, 2022)

Pedantic - a word used to describe someone who annoys others by correcting small errors, caring too much about minor details, or emphasizing their own expertise especially in some narrow or boring subject matter.


----------



## AnnieA (Dec 20, 2022)

Indiana Joe said:


> This "training" stuff is nonsense.  Many, many a senior citizen may not be able to pass some test or other, so that means their lives are over when the predators come after them?  Hundreds, at least that number of  senior citizens, have saved their lives with guns. Matter of fact, the average woman who is not interested in guns, so therefore has no license, cannot use a gun her husband has placed in the house for her protection when he is not home?  Even when some monster begins kicking in her door with the object of raping her?
> 
> You people who are in denial regarding the reality of one's chances of being a victim are truly coldblooded in your efforts of a demanded agenda wherein everyone crosses their fingers in hopes that violence doesn't befall them.



I can carry by law in my state without the training and enhanced carry license. Can have any number of firearms in my vehicle or home without training. 

The training was for an enhanced carry license that is honored in all but 15 other states. Since I travel out of state frequently, I wanted to take advantage of the reciprocity advantages of the enhanced license.


----------



## Wayne (Dec 20, 2022)

yes and yes some here must live in a bubble of denial of real life


----------



## Paladin1950 (Dec 21, 2022)

Yes I live alone. Never had a gun in my life, except for "cap guns" as a child.


----------



## Conce (Dec 26, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> How many people ( on this forum ) who live alone, have a gun ? JimB.


Don't. Won't. Why?
1. I pay the police to protect me.
2. I have grandkids. I hate it when some people's babies pick up a gun and it goes off.
3. People are sad. I don't want my weapon used to end their life.
4. There are too many already
5. We are the only country where this is even a question... (do you have a gun?)


----------



## 1955 (Dec 26, 2022)

Out in the country there are no police. We have 2 sheriffs & and one will be home sleeping while the other is on duty. Both cell & radio coverage is poor so the likely hood of a quick response is not so good depending where the sheriff is. Most people here keep a gun handy.


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## JaniceM (Dec 26, 2022)

Paladin1950 said:


> Yes I live alone. Never had a gun in my life, except for "cap guns" as a child.
> View attachment 257549


Ah-ha, that's the reason for your screen name-  'Have Guns, Will Travel'...


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## ElCastor (Dec 26, 2022)

Conce said:


> Don't. Won't. Why?
> 1. I pay the police to protect me.
> 2. I have grandkids. I hate it when some people's babies pick up a gun and it goes off.
> 3. People are sad. I don't want my weapon used to end their life.
> ...


6. A poor choice in gun or ammunition will fire a bullet that will pass through walls and kill a neighbor.


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## ElCastor (Dec 26, 2022)

win231 said:


> 1.  You do not decide my self defense choices.  I do.  (Though I'm sure you wish you could)
> 2.  You might consider improving your reading.  I've said previously, I have no interest in machine guns or any of your other exaggerated nonsense.  It speaks volumes that you can only make your point with asinine exaggerations.


How about bump stocks? Should bump stocks be banned. A simple yes or no will do.


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## win231 (Dec 26, 2022)

Conce said:


> Don't. Won't. Why?
> 1. I pay the police to protect me.
> 2. I have grandkids. I hate it when some people's babies pick up a gun and it goes off.
> 3. People are sad. I don't want my weapon used to end their life.
> ...


Best of luck relying on the police to protect you.  You might be better informed & more in tune with reality after reading this:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjWy9XQl5j8AhU-EkQIHZbABFUQFnoECAoQAQ&url=https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again&usg=AOvVaw0hyLbU5Crong9mwJjrlQDy

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjWy9XQl5j8AhU-EkQIHZbABFUQFnoECAgQAQ&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html&usg=AOvVaw1sGksZPnxp9raiBxIpAgkW

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjWy9XQl5j8AhU-EkQIHZbABFUQFnoECBUQAQ&url=https://fee.org/articles/just-dial-911-the-myth-of-police-protection/&usg=AOvVaw3XDn8YgIKxzSWzg7s2_BmP


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## Buckeye (Dec 26, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> 6. A poor choice in gun or ammunition will fire a bullet that will pass through walls and kill a neighbor.


You keep talking about this.  Please provide links to such an event.


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## BC Flash (Dec 26, 2022)

One of the reasons why gun ownership is more prevalent in the use as opposed to Canada:    The " Right to Bear Arms" is written into the United States' consitution:

Right to keep and bear arms in the United States - Wikipedia


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## ElCastor (Dec 26, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> You keep talking about this.  Please provide links to such an event.


https://www.koamnewsnow.com/news/cr...cle_790d1a6c-968d-5cf4-8358-205a4c4b4047.html
https://people.com/crime/7-year-old...llegedly-drunkenly-fires-bullet-through-wall/
https://patch.com/virginia/woodbrid...-shoots-gun-through-wall-hits-neighbor-police
https://komonews.com/news/local/man-hurt-when-bullet-punches-through-apartment-wall-in-newcastle
https://www.krem.com/article/news/c...wall/293-ef1e012a-baae-4a24-a7ac-a2bdf6f206b3
https://todaytimeslive.com/world/122183.html
https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/handgun-bullet-penetration-through-interior-walls
https://myfox8.com/news/crime/greensboro-couple-hit-floor-when-bullet-came-through-wall/
https://nypost.com/2021/10/03/georgia-actress-killed-when-neighbor-accidentally-fires-gun/
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...leeping-poway-neighbor-through-apartment-wall
https://www.salisburypost.com/2022/...hot-sends-bullet-through-neighbors-headboard/
https://people.com/crime/carlether-foley-neighbor-allegedly-shoots-gun-accident/
https://www.koin.com/news/crime/neighbor-shot-through-wall-after-man-fires-gun-in-eugene-apartment/
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/01...m-neighboring-apartments-one-while-showering/
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/7...gh-wall-murdering-7-year-old-girl-charges-say
https://www.9news.com/article/news/...jured/73-8739cb38-11cf-44d2-87ef-63c9e43c271e
https://law.stackexchange.com/quest...-gun-and-a-bullet-goes-through-my-wall-and-al
https://patch.com/florida/largo/bullet-rips-through-wall-hits-woman-back
https://www.boston.com/news/local-n...accidentally-hits-neighbors-house-police-say/
https://kdvr.com/news/local/mans-gu...ghboring-apartment-critically-wounding-woman/

Want more?


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## squatting dog (Dec 26, 2022)

1955 said:


> Out in the country there are no police. We have 2 sheriffs & and one will be home sleeping while the other is on duty. Both cell & radio coverage is poor so the likely hood of a quick response is not so good depending where the sheriff is. Most people here keep a gun handy.


Same here at the house we had in the Ozarks. No cell service, and the sheriff was at least 20-30 minutes away... if he's not out on another call. 
As others have noted, these are not fully automatic weapons. I have a 30.06 deer rifle that is semi auto and will fire as fast as any of those "scary black guns", (and actually fires a larger and more lethal round). With it, I can send you a greeting at 1000 yards with no problem.


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## 1955 (Dec 26, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> With it, I can send you a greeting at 1000 yards with no problem.


Not where I'm at - too many trees.  You can barely go 50 yards without hitting one! Better to have a dog that knows how to fetch.


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## Gary O' (Dec 26, 2022)

1955 said:


> Out in the country there are no police. We have 2 sheriffs & and one will be home sleeping while the other is on duty. Both cell & radio coverage is poor so the likely hood of a quick response is not so good depending where the sheriff is. Most people here keep a gun handy.





squatting dog said:


> Same here at the house we had in the Ozarks. No cell service, and the sheriff was at least 20-30 minutes away... if he's not out on another call.


Yup
Up at our off grid cabin in the mountains, the only deterrent to violence was being armed
The sheriff did come up once, but only waaaaay after the event
He advised a couple tree hugging folks to get themselves a weapon
or move to town
It's the way of life up there
The way of keeping alive


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## Wayne (Dec 28, 2022)

With upwards at times of 30 minutes response times living rural the sheriff can only take reports of a crime and after myself and best friend both have BEEN VICTIMS of crimes HAVING PERSONAL protection is a MUST have for us and we do not live in a bad area at all, every neighbor we know has firearms every one of them.


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## Buckeye (Dec 28, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> https://www.koamnewsnow.com/news/cr...cle_790d1a6c-968d-5cf4-8358-205a4c4b4047.html
> https://people.com/crime/7-year-old...llegedly-drunkenly-fires-bullet-through-wall/
> https://patch.com/virginia/woodbrid...-shoots-gun-through-wall-hits-neighbor-police
> https://komonews.com/news/local/man-hurt-when-bullet-punches-through-apartment-wall-in-newcastle
> ...


Didn't read all your links, but these are mostly cases of a hand gun being discharged and the bullet going thru an interior wall. (Frame construction exterior walls aren't much better..)  That can happen with a good compound bow and arrow.   To avoid this, you would have to eliminate ALL firearms.  Is that what you are proposing?


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## JustDave (Dec 28, 2022)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> We don't have a gun.
> I really don't understand the concept of having a gun in the home for protection.
> Both of my kids have a gun which is unloaded, and in a safe in some obscure area of the house.
> So when the burglar comes into your home do you kindly ask him to wait while you go to the safe, fiddle with the combination ,load the gun and then find the guy and shoot him?
> I'm pretty sure I would have better results with a baseball bat or frying pan.


When a burglar comes, you tell him the money is in the safe, along with your gun. He will tell you to unlock the safe, and if he has half a brain, he will tell you stand back, while he opens the safe.  This is where you grab the baseball bat hidden behind the window curtain and bash him a good one.  The actual gun is optional.


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## Wayne (Dec 28, 2022)

Problem just waiting to happen there. I feel you have not ever been attacked and needed to act to prevent harm to self or family/friends, my best friend I have ever had just answered the door to her home and met an illegal who crippled her for life among doing other things to her she will never walk again from that day and spent 92 days in the hospital from all the injuries plus months of rehab, when dad was attacked he was stabbed in his eye with a knife, neither was in a bad area nor doing anything wrong. I know well what kept us alive both of us and my father also, would you be willing to bet your life on your plans of defense? I sure would not ...


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## win231 (Dec 28, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> https://www.koamnewsnow.com/news/cr...cle_790d1a6c-968d-5cf4-8358-205a4c4b4047.html
> https://people.com/crime/7-year-old...llegedly-drunkenly-fires-bullet-through-wall/
> https://patch.com/virginia/woodbrid...-shoots-gun-through-wall-hits-neighbor-police
> https://komonews.com/news/local/man-hurt-when-bullet-punches-through-apartment-wall-in-newcastle
> ...


My policy:  The head is much harder & the bullet is less likely to over penetrate.  And the results are immediate.


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## ElCastor (Dec 28, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> Didn't read all your links, but these are mostly cases of a hand gun being discharged and the bullet going thru an interior wall. (Frame construction exterior walls aren't much better..)  That can happen with a good compound bow and arrow.   To avoid this, you would have to eliminate ALL firearms.  Is that what you are proposing?


No. I am, and have, suggested a short barrel pump shotgun as a good weapon for home defense. Not near as exciting for some as an AR-15, but a frightening weapon and less likely to kill a neighbor.


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## win231 (Dec 29, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> No. I am, and have, suggested a short barrel pump shotgun as a good weapon for home defense. Not near as exciting for some as an AR-15, but a frightening weapon and less likely to kill a neighbor.


The only disadvantage of a shotgun is limited capacity - to 5 - 7 rounds.  And a slow reload.  We don't get to guarantee how few rats run in a pack.


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## ElCastor (Dec 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> The only disadvantage of a shotgun is limited capacity - to 5 - 7 rounds.  And a slow reload.  We don't get to guarantee how few rats run in a pack.


Here is a link to some wicked shotguns with magazines far larger than 5-7 rounds. These should satisfy even the most extreme gun nut.
https://thegunzone.com/best-high-capacity-shotguns/


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