# The Panama Papers



## Warrigal (Apr 4, 2016)

I watched a serious program devoted to the data dump from an insider involved in Panama tax minimisation schemes. A comment was made that very few Americans seem to be involved and the answer seemed to be that Americans favour other locations such as the British Virgin Islands.

The same question, "_where are all the Americans_" is being examined in this article.

FYI: http://fusion.net/story/287671/americans-panama-papers-trove/

A sample - 





> _*2. Does this mean that Americans don’t use the offshore world?*_
> *
> James Henry:* Americans clearly use offshore all the time. They were some of the first early users of offshore. Back in the 1970s there was something called the Castle Bank & Trust case, out the Bahamas, that exposed 200 prominent Americans who were rock stars, like Creedence Clearwater Revival, the owners of the Hyatt Hotel chain, the Cleveland mafia. All these people were using offshore trusts. What’s happened is that they [Americans] discovered that they really don’t need to go to Panama. Delaware has trusts. Forty-nine states now offer LLCs… Basically, we have an onshore haven industry in the US that is as secretive as anywhere.
> 
> ...



Some politicians/leaders around the world have been exposed for hiding assets which they have not declared to their own governments for taxation purposes. It has also exposed money laundering and covert control of companies by criminals. If this is true of the Panama setup, it is likely to be true of other off shore tax havens. Secrecy is the hand maiden of corruption and crime. 

IMO, the whistleblower and the investigative journalists are doing the world a very big favour.


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## vickyNightowl (Apr 4, 2016)

I  agree with you.

Politicians and public figures.
This is a huge thing.

An aarticle states the even though it is not illegal to hold money in offshore accounts,they have evidence of hidden wealth for tax evasion.

This will be interesting to watch unfold.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 5, 2016)

My funds are offshore as I don't think that it is right for the government to tax me to pay the riabble that can't make it on their own.  Just call me Ian if you must...


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## Dobra (Apr 5, 2016)

Nothing new here, been going on since time immemorial.  Great names of the past became rich by being clever with their figures. A good tax accountant is well worth his salary!


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## Warrigal (Apr 5, 2016)




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## vickyNightowl (Apr 5, 2016)

Ralphy1 said:


> My funds are offshore as I don't think that it is right for the government to tax me to pay the riabble that can't make it on their own.  Just call me Ian if you must...



Hey Ian,taxes don't only pay the ones who don't make it on their own.

You can't have demands from your gov either then.

You are like some people from Greece who have offshore accounts but now complain about the gov.


Dobra,yes,nothing new but it is a good thing that more are being outed.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 5, 2016)

I don't need the government for any thing.  I can buy whatever services that night need...


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## vickyNightowl (Apr 5, 2016)

Ralphy1 said:


> I don't need the government for any thing.  I can buy whatever services that night need...




Like I said before,taxes are not just for one thing.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 5, 2016)

I have enough to start my own country, or just buy an island and pay for all the amenities...


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## vickyNightowl (Apr 5, 2016)

Ralphy1 said:


> I have enough to start my own country, or just buy an island and pay for all the amenities...



I doubt that very much but let's stick to the real subject of the thread which has to do with real big names with lots of money


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 5, 2016)

You are no fun, lighten up or I'll turn you over to Phil...


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## vickyNightowl (Apr 5, 2016)

Ralphy1 said:


> You are no fun, lighten up or I'll turn you over to Phil...



Make another thread and I will play with you all you want 

Thanks but I can handle myself on my own,don't need to turn me over to anyone.


Back to the thread...


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 5, 2016)

Wait until I get my sewing basket...


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## vickyNightowl (Apr 5, 2016)

In the begining of May,we should have the whole list.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 5, 2016)

Our posh boy PM's late father had one of those accounts.  He tried to play innocent during parliament today saying all he had was some savings, a house he rents out while living on Downing Street, and that's it. Yea, right.  Maybe he turned his massive inheritance over to his wife who is also very rich.


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## jujube (Apr 5, 2016)

I've decided to diversify my funds.   Some I'm going to keep in the back of my wallet, some in the front of my wallet and the rest under the mattress.  If I go "offshore" with them, they're likely to float out of the top of my swimsuit.


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## BlunderWoman (Apr 5, 2016)

I don't really care about the average Joe, but when politicians hide their money in the Cayman Islands while seeking offices so they can pass laws on us ..well pffft to them


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## WhatInThe (Apr 5, 2016)

Some say up to 200 Americans named in the papers. This tax scheme derived from a 2011 free trade agreement with Panama and championed by Obama & Clinton.

http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/04/panama-papers-tpp/


Clinton seems to be linked via Russian bank through her campaign chairman John Podesta and an associated lobbying group.

http://790talknow.com/foxfeedspro/details/item_310889/hillary-clinton-ties-emerge-in-panama-papers/


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## Warrigal (Apr 5, 2016)

The PM of Iceland has had to resign because of non disclosure of assets. He says he sold his share to his wife before entering parliament but the Icelanders aren't having any of that. They had to bear the pain of the GFC meltdown while he was making decisions on their behalf cushioned by undeclared wealth. Leadership 101 - FAIL.

Perhaps instead of asking about candidates their birth places, questions should be directed to the structures involved in their personal finances and whether they use shell companies in tax havens. If everything is above board and legal they can surely have no objection making a declaration before being elected.


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## Debby (Apr 6, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> The PM of Iceland has had to resign because of non disclosure of assets. He says he sold his share to his wife before entering parliament but the Icelanders aren't having any of that. They had to bear the pain of the GFC meltdown while he was making decisions on their behalf cushioned by undeclared wealth. Leadership 101 - FAIL.
> 
> Perhaps instead of asking about candidates their birth places, questions should be directed to the structures involved in their personal finances and whether they use shell companies in tax havens. If everything is above board and legal they can surely have no objection making a declaration before being elected.




And then when it turns out they actually do have hidden accounts, jail time.  Jail time because they fraudulently represented their situation in order to get a government job with all the benefits that go along with it.  Sounds fair.


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## WhatInThe (Apr 7, 2016)

Some celebrity names have popped up including Jackie Chan, Simon Cowell and Heather Mills. Also entertainment mogul David Geffen and Stanley Kubrick's family.

http://fusion.net/story/288251/panama-papers-leak-celebrities-list-of-names/

How much they knew or intention is another story.


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## oakapple (Apr 7, 2016)

Exactly, but nobody should be judging until they know the truth, it's not a sin to have wealth or to allow an accountant or broker to make the most of your money.Nor is it fair or just to condemn anyone  ( David Cameron, PM) because his Father may have made some less than savoury financial decisions.However, tax avoidance is unfair to your own country and loopholes should be stopped.


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## vickyNightowl (Apr 8, 2016)

oakapple said:


> .However, tax avoidance is unfair to your own country and loopholes should be stopped.



That's the whole point of this investigation.
I'm sure they have gone deep enough all these months and will widdle out and prove what they have to prove.


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## Warrigal (Apr 8, 2016)

Tax avoidance is legitimate but tax havens are designed for tax evasion and other kinds of criminality..

Australia used to have our home grown versions which were dubbed "bottom of the harbour" schemes.
These latest ones as "bottom of the ocean" schemes and need to be legislated against to eliminate the acceptance of the unethical because it is not illegal.
Declare them criminal and apply sanctions.


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## WhatInThe (Apr 9, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Tax avoidance is legitimate but tax havens are designed for tax evasion and other kinds of criminality..
> 
> Australia used to have our home grown versions which were dubbed "bottom of the harbour" schemes.
> These latest ones as "bottom of the ocean" schemes and need to be legislated against to eliminate the acceptance of the unethical because it is not illegal.
> Declare them criminal and apply sanctions.



They need rules & laws to define & separate administrative functions and production of the actual product. If the majority of the production is out of country in reality how is that corporate headquarters being that far away from the actual operation. These companies can do it if they want but to me if they are not outsourcing and there is no parity or logic to the locations of production & administration then it should not be a tax loophole.


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## WhatInThe (Apr 18, 2016)

IRS warns Americans with off shore accounts to pay up now or else they will use the Panama Papers to come after you.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pa...-come-clean-now-we-read-panama-papers-n557246

Wuh oh


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## WhatInThe (May 10, 2016)

More names dropped including links to colleges/universities from NY.

http://nypost.com/2016/05/10/panama-papers-link-new-york-universities-to-offshore-accounts/

Trustees for Columbia University were one of them.


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## Warrigal (May 10, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> IRS warns Americans with off shore accounts to pay up now or else they will use the Panama Papers to come after you.
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pa...-come-clean-now-we-read-panama-papers-n557246
> 
> Wuh oh



:lol: That's the technique I used on teenagers when I investigating some misbehaviour. Never let them know exactly what you know but imply that you know more than you do. It prompts confessions, or in this case, it might result in some voluntary disclosures and payment of taxes.


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## Ralphy1 (May 11, 2016)

Greed, greed is good...


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