# I Need a Magic Pill or an Incantation!!!



## Debby (Nov 5, 2014)

Do any of the rest of you 'oldsters' still have a miserable, toxic relationship with your mother that just makes you wish you could die soon?

My mother and I are like oil and water and the only thing that seems to have changed from when I hit puberty is that at least now she makes a pretence of listening to what I have to say but God help me if I don't agree with her on everything.  So meaningful conversations are out of the question.  

Don't get me wrong, I deeply respect her for everything she's accomplished in her life and that includes only having a grade 8 education, being left to raise two little kids alone and coming to where she owns two houses herself and was able to retire in her late 50's.  In the same circumstances, I seriously doubt that I could have done as well as she did.  And by the way I've told her that repeatedly but she still regularly accuses me of disrespecting her 'life' which usually comes after I haven't agreed with her on something.  

She just makes me crazy and while I would never wish death on anyone else, she makes me yearn for the grave.  I am dead (pardon the pun!) serious.

Please, somebody give me a magic pill or an incantation to chant under a full moon, something to get me through the next twelve years without driving my car into a tree.


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## Falcon (Nov 5, 2014)

My Mother has been gone for many years now. But I loved her and we NEVER had any serious "problems".

I've heard those same stories Debby.  Can't be a very nice bringing up.


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## Debby (Nov 5, 2014)

I just had an interesting little thought flit through my mind.....maybe this is why I think it's sooo important to change the law to allow assisted suicide (I don't want to wreck the car!)


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## Debby (Nov 5, 2014)

Falcon said:


> My Mother has been gone for many years now. But I loved her and we NEVER had any serious "problems".
> 
> I've heard those same stories Debby.  Can't be a very nice bringing up.




Well let's just say I left home when I was 16.  You're lucky Falcon.  I've often watched those kinds of good relationships like you had with your mom and been kind of amazed because I just couldn't imagine what that must be like.  Couldn't relate.


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## Falcon (Nov 5, 2014)

Can't say as I blame you.   Please don't wreck the car.  There are other ways.

(See that guy down at the corner? He'll do anything, if the price is right.)


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## Debby (Nov 5, 2014)

Falcon said:


> Can't say as I blame you.   Please don't wreck the car.  There are other ways.
> 
> (See that guy down at the corner? He'll do anything, if the price is right.)




Well it's not quite that bad yet thank goodness but there are definitely days you know!!!  

The other thing that grates is that I see her in me too often...depressing thought that that is.  I think that's why all my life seems to have been a journey towards spirituality.  Maybe it's because I see that as the opposite of what makes me crazy.  Does that sound plausible?  

Trouble is, if that's so, then that scenario brings it's own set of issues.  Oh well, it is what it is right?


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## Falcon (Nov 5, 2014)

Do what Ameriscot says;  Whatever is good for your soul.....do that.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Nov 5, 2014)

Falcon said:


> Do what Ameriscot says;  Whatever is good for your soul.....do that.



I'll drink to that!

Debby, I understand. I truly do. My mother and I had a near-toxic relationship...she was ALWAYS on the defensive and could twist anything I said into something that she could call an insult. Funny thing is that after I was grown, she found a way to move to wherever I lived...across the country, across the state, across the city, across the street. The only time she didn't follow me was when I lived in Germany. For whatever reason, it seemed that she wanted to be me. One of my siblings told me once that she had mentioned that I was lucky to live such a "glamorous and exciting" life. 

The occasions when I felt close to her (or at least not so distant) were few and far between. On her deathbed...literally her deathbed as she lay in the hospital dying...she said "I love you". It was the first time in my entire life I ever heard those words from her. I was 50 years old.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 5, 2014)

Debby, just remember that you're not alone in this, and try to look at the big picture.  Definitely don't do away with yourself over an age-old issue. :girl_hug:  My mother was pretty reasonable and I spent most of my adult life in another state, so we weren't around each other that much anyway.  But she wasn't overbearing at all.

I just got a haircut yesterday, and the gal who was cutting my hair spent the whole time complaining about her mother.  Her mother was 55, but always acted like she was too old now to do anything for herself.  The girl was upset because she had to make Thanksgiving dinner for her, and said her mother would criticize everything she made, did, stuff in her house, etc.  It was really affecting her mood and her life, and I tried to tell her not to give it too much importance, try to lessen the aggravation, if anything, for her own sake.  

My mother in law was a bit difficult like that though.  Many times wanted things her way only, could be unreasonable, headstrong and pushy on certain things.  She ended up living with us for a few years toward the end of her life, when she and her husband became seriously ill and couldn't live on their own anymore.

So there were days that I felt like pulling my hair out, or had to just count to ten and chill out downstairs for awhile until I was ready for more.   Just remember, in acceptance is peace, and if she wants your opinion, she'll give it to you. layful: 

Is she living with you, how often are you around her, do you ever get a break?  My advice is to consider the source, and let stuff just roll off your shoulders.  Sometimes, when you react less and ignore things, you don't enable them to act up, as it's less interesting for them.  If you can just take a deep breath during the bad moments, ride them through with no unnecessary interaction, do it for a week or two...I bet things start to mellow on her end.  Maybe?  Either way, good luck, and remember you always have someone to talk to here. :love_heart:


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 5, 2014)

Georgia, that's so sad.  I'm glad she was able to say those words to you, even if it was on her death bed.  I'm sorry for your loss. :rose:


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## GeorgiaXplant (Nov 5, 2014)

Somebody once said "If it's not one thing, it's your mother!" Too true in too many cases


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## Debby (Nov 5, 2014)

Ha, that's great Georgia!  And you're right, it does seem to be too true in so many cases.  

I've got a great relationship with both my daughters, but I worked really hard at it and very consciously.

It sounds like your relationship was the same as mine is with my mom.  Maybe different reasons but the result was or is the same.  How did you deal at the time?  Or did you feel like an emotional wreck whenever you had spent some time with mom?

At least I was able to move away and not have her follow me, but then that makes me feel terrible guilty because she's getting old and she'll need help in the not too distant future.  And then I think of going back to be there for her and truly it seems from here to look like a really bleak time


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## Debby (Nov 5, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> Debby, just remember that you're not alone ......Just remember, in acceptance is peace, and *if she wants your opinion, she'll give it to you. layful: *
> 
> Is she living with you, how often are you around her, do you ever get a break?  My advice is to consider the source, and let stuff just roll off your shoulders.  Sometimes, when you react less and ignore things, you don't enable them to act up, as it's less interesting for them.  If you can just take a deep breath during the bad moments, ride them through with no unnecessary interaction, do it for a week or two...I bet things start to mellow on her end.  Maybe?  Either way, good luck, and remember you always have someone to talk to here. :love_heart:




You're right, in acceptance is peace and I'm working on that and the next thing you said, well I'm still snickering over that one!

Fortunately for me, she lives on the other side of the country so I don't see her, but I have to call a few times a week otherwise 'I'm neglecting her'.  But you're right, take a deep breath, relax, relax, deep breath......

I sure appreciate the responses all you ladies have offered.  I just needed to let off some of the pressure after the last conversation today so you were the ears I needed to whine into.  Thank you so much for being so understanding all of you.  It does help doesn't it to talk to someone about the crap of life!  Well I will happily return the favour should any of you have a rough day.


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## Athos (Nov 5, 2014)

I sympathize with you. My mother has been critical and very judgmental, all my life.
But she is much much nicer to everyone outside the family.
Well, at least you don't have to visit with her directly. You can always end the conversation quicker--
or even hang up on her. Or say that someone else is trying to reach you, and pretend you have Call Waiting.
Your relationship sounds like she is verbally manipulating you...I have been through that with mine.


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## Meanderer (Nov 5, 2014)

Having parents who are older than us can be a real trial. We have to remember that we were raised by other people's children, and we turned around and raised other people's parents.  Maybe we should blame our Grandparents?


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## Debby (Nov 5, 2014)

Athos said:


> I sympathize with you. My mother has been critical and very judgmental, all my life.
> But she is much much nicer to everyone outside the family.
> Well, at least you don't have to visit with her directly. You can always end the conversation quicker--
> or even hang up on her. Or say that someone else is trying to reach you, and pretend you have Call Waiting.
> Your relationship sounds like she is verbally manipulating you...I have been through that with mine.




I guess mothers  have the potential to be the most problematic relationship of all.  Because she was there wiping our noses, we feel like we have an inherent duty to love, respect....and then tonnes of guilt when you can't meet that personal expectation.  At least that's the way I feel.

I wonder if you could do a poll of 3,000 or a big number anyway, would you find more good mother/child relationships or would you find more difficult to awful ones?  

It must be galling for you to watch your mom being nice to others when she shows you another side?  You've probably learned coping mechanisms I'll bet.


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## Debby (Nov 5, 2014)

And we're doing it to our own sometimes too!  Such a 'vicious cycle'!  How do we get off huh?

Love the cartoon by the way.  Where do all you folks come up with these little artistic gems?  





Meanderer said:


> Having parents who are older than us can be a real trial. We have to remember that we were raised by other people's children, and we turned around and raised other people's parents.  Maybe we should blame our Grandparents?


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## Lee (Nov 6, 2014)

Debby, my mother is toxic and we have not spoken in several years....her choice, not mine. There comes a time when every meeting resulted in my hands shaking from nerves and a twitch in the eye. For that reason it is probably best she made her choice.

She is getting older and someone once told me "your mother is going to die a lonely old woman" Sad but true.

I have no advice to give but you mention that she lives far away, maybe best to keep it that way rather than uprooting yourself to care for her.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 6, 2014)

Hang in there, Debby, and know that you are not alone, mine treats me like I'm a teenager...lol


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## Debby (Nov 6, 2014)

Lee said:


> Debby, my mother is toxic and we have not spoken in several years....her choice, not mine. There comes a time when every meeting resulted in my hands shaking from nerves and a twitch in the eye. For that reason it is probably best she made her choice.
> 
> She is getting older and someone once told me "your mother is going to die a lonely old woman" Sad but true.
> 
> I have no advice to give but you mention that she lives far away, maybe best to keep it that way rather than uprooting yourself to care for her.




Well I'm sure my 'eye would be twitching' too if we had to see each other in person on a regular basis too so I can understand your situation entirely Lee.  I think my mom is going to die a lonely old woman too which is weird because difficult as she can be, she also has a fierce family loyalty (sort of?).  When my aunt was dying (92 years old at the end), my mom was right there for her for most of her last few years, but at one point, my aunt's oldest daughter said to me, "I can understand why you moved far away".  I never responded to that bait for discussing her with family (that can seriously backfire can't it?). My mom is a motley collection of contradictions that's for sure.

Jackie, do you think our mothers will ever acknowledge that we are grown people with value?  Or will they always see us like you say, as teenagers?

As for moving back to take care of her, I have to admit I'm totally confused on what to do.  Should I do it, should I not, guilt, guilt, guilt no matter which way I go. But I'll probably wind up moving back because 'I must'.  

Don't you envy people who have parents that they get along wonderfully with?  I sure do.


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## Lee (Nov 6, 2014)

Debby, a question for you....in your first post you mentioned getting through the next 12 years. Is there a reason for that particular number? 

And another question...do you have siblings and if so how do they feel about mom?


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## Debby (Nov 6, 2014)

Easy answer on the 12 years:  My mom is turning 80 next year and her sisters both lived til they were 91-92.  It might be 12+.

You know as I was writing this I suddenly realized how kind of morbid thinking like this is.  It is isn't it?  But you know I was talking to my youngest this evening who had talked to her grandmother last night and she told me that after listening to my paranoid, suspicious, negative mother, she began having a panic attack herself and earlier today, my other daughter who has a medical problem and whose med's aren't working said that there was no way she was going to tell Grandma, because she'd never hear the end of it forever after!

As for your last question Lee, I do have a sister who moved down to Chicago 30 years ago, has never been back to see Mom and whenever I do hear via my mother that they talked, she's telling me that they had another fight.......and I'm really not making any of this up!  

But you know, it's been a great help being able to talk about it a bit with all you lovely folks.  I'm over it for this time, feeling a lot better now and thanks to being able to chat, have thought it through and I'm seeing some slight adjustments that I need to make in how I deal with what's going on with her.

If I de-personalize our interactions and just accept that she just can't help herself, it should be easier to just let her negativity flow on by and who knows, maybe if I can do that, maybe she won't feel like she has come up against something (or someone?) that she has to batter her way through.  And you know there is this possibility too, that there might be some mental 'slippage' starting to go on here.  That could really gum up the works between us too couldn't it?  Old age....such a nuisance eh:yuk:?


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## Athos (Nov 8, 2014)

Debby said:


> I guess mothers  have the potential to be the most problematic relationship of all.  Because she was there wiping our noses, we feel like we have an inherent duty to love, respect....and then tonnes of guilt when you can't meet that personal expectation.  At least that's the way I feel.
> 
> I wonder if you could do a poll of 3,000 or a big number anyway, would you find more good mother/child relationships or would you find more difficult to awful ones?
> 
> It must be galling for you to watch your mom being nice to others when she shows you another side?  You've probably learned coping mechanisms I'll bet.



*Yes, it is VERY galling.* She has done this all my life. Especially when she has fawned over my nephew and spoiled him  while treating me totally different, constantly. The same with my cousins who can do no wrong. My father was the same way. The attitude is that "As your mother (or father) I can say what I please and criticize you all your life whether you like it or not". They think it is their right to do that. I don't really cope well with it. My sister refuses to speak about herself much, and often screams loudly at her with sarcasm.. Or hangs up the phone a lot. Everyone else thinks she is a warm wonderful old lady.
   But the opposite of this is to never judge or criticize your child at all which might be just as bad.


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## Twixie (Nov 8, 2014)

Why do we always blame our mothers..not our fathers..?


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## Debby (Nov 8, 2014)

Twixie said:


> Why do we always blame our mothers..not our fathers..?




Well in my case, it would be because my dad ran off (escaped) from my mother when I was about seven.  And I escaped nine years later.  

But a general response to your question might be that so often the mothers are the ones who have had the most intimate relationship with the kids involved.  We're there when they are conceived, they grow in us, we nursed them, we wiped their noses , we hopefully kissed their injuries, took them to the playgrounds and helped them learn more often than dads do, how to get along in this society.  That's not to say that some dads aren't involved with their kids big time.  My son in law has probably changed as many diapers as my daughter has, but on the other hand, my husband never changed one.


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## Debby (Nov 8, 2014)

Athos said:


> *Yes, it is VERY galling.* She has done this all my life. Especially when she has fawned over my nephew and spoiled him  while treating me totally different, constantly. The same with my cousins who can do no wrong. My father was the same way. The attitude is that "As your mother (or father) I can say what I please and criticize you all your life whether you like it or not". They think it is their right to do that. I don't really cope well with it. My sister refuses to speak about herself much, and often screams loudly at her with sarcasm.. Or hangs up the phone a lot. Everyone else thinks she is a warm wonderful old lady.
> But the opposite of this is to never judge or criticize your child at all which might be just as bad.




That sounds like how my grandfather's generation would have raised kids.  Seen and not heard, smack them into obedience, and never consider their feelings.  I think our aged parents have brought that philosophy along with them, but I think our generation was when the change in child rearing techniques began to change.  And hopefully our children didn't get to many confusing messages along the way hey?

But I also think that judging our children and criticizing them is counterproductive and a waste of time.  Their lives are their lives and reflect only on them.  We don't have to make it all about us as in 'what will the neighbours think' and 'don't let the family down, I never raised you like that', etc.  So we don't need to get our panties in a twist if they don't behave exactly how we would like.  My mother does that always and the result is that no one seems to want to be her 'friend'.


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## Athos (Dec 29, 2014)

It is even worse when your mother acts like a know it all and has all the answers
and thinks she always knows what is best for me. Like the joke, "I don't need
Google, my mother knows everything". I recently retired and my mother is against it.
Life is all about work.


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## Debby (Dec 29, 2014)

I hadn't heard your saying before Athos but I think it could be applied to my mom.  I don't recall her ever saying anything like ' I didn't know that...I'm glad you told me about it'.  Never.

I'll bet your mom is telling you exactly how you should manage your retirement too isn't she or is she one of those people who prefers to chime in when she sees you 'doing it wrong'?

Currently I'm on day four of not talking to my mom, because the Christmas day phone call was 'one of those' if you know what I mean.  Until a year ago, my mom was talking to her sister daily (sometimes twice a day) and then my aunt died.  So I've been trying to take up the slack a bit by upping our interactions to about every three days just so she will feel like she's in the loop and in the thoughts of someone but Christmas day ......  let's just say I'm waiting on her this time.  

It's exhausting being in relationships with people like these isn't it?  At least I don't feel like it's just me because both my daughters have the same kind of relationship with her, one cousin made a comment once years ago that she understood why I moved so far away and my favourite aunt also hinted once that her sister (my mom) was a 'bit much'.  She was trying to be nice.  And every time I hear that my mother talked to my sister who lives near Chicago, she says she had another 'fight' with her.  You'd think at some point people would look at a relational track record of lousy or uncomfortable relationships like my mother has and begin to wonder if they aren't doing something wrong.  But I guess it's always everyone else's fault to those sorts of folks.

Well, keep your chin up Athos....because all things do pass.


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## QuickSilver (Dec 29, 2014)

My mom and I fought like two Banty hens..  NO one knew how to push my buttons like she could..  WHY?  because she DESIGNED those buttons..    Mom has been gone now for 15 years.   I have had those 15 years to reflect on our relationship and how we interacted... what she said and how she said things.  I have had time to step back and see her in a different light..   Knowing her family history.. and knowing HER life story, I am a bit kinder in my memories.  I can understand things now,  that I couldn't then.  So....  that said.. there isn't a day that goes by that I don't wish I could tell her how sorry I am for many of the fights.. and the things I did and said.  Sorry for my part in the turmoil.  That doesn't mean I absolve her from all the blame.. It just means I understand it better.   AND  I miss my mom..


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## Debby (Dec 29, 2014)

You're a generous daughter QS.  Sometimes looking back helps sort things out that couldn't be sorted out when they happened.  Missing your mom just shows there was lots of love hidden in the nooks and crannies.


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## QuickSilver (Dec 29, 2014)

Debby said:


> You're a generous daughter QS.  Sometimes looking back helps sort things out that couldn't be sorted out when they happened.  Missing your mom just shows there was lots of love hidden in the nooks and crannies.




Oh there certainly were tons of nooks and crannies..  She could be mean and nasty..  But I think being removed from the conflict for so many years has taken the edge off and allowed me to look at things more objectively.  That's hard to do when you are in the middle of the turmoil.


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## jujube (Dec 29, 2014)

My mother and I get along very well.  We are over our difficulties.  Of course, it helps that I don't tell her anything I don't think she needs to know about - LOL.  

My late mother-in-law....whooee....'nother story there.   I didn't actually meet her until I had been married for five years and she usually referred to me as "The Whore of Babylon" up until then.  We eventually became quite civil to each other, but there was no affection.


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## Ralphy1 (Dec 30, 2014)

Hmmm, and why were you called the whore?  :love_heart:


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## Debby (Dec 30, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Oh there certainly were tons of nooks and crannies..  She could be mean and nasty..  But I think being removed from the conflict for so many years has taken the edge off and allowed me to look at things more objectively.  That's hard to do when you are in the middle of the turmoil.





Well I'm glad for you that getting away from the turmoil gave you space to understand the situation.  Must have done wonders for your mental state.  

In my case, I moved 3000 miles away from mine and the tension that existed between us only got moved to every phone call .  That may change though in the next 3-5 years as my own aging process and my latent guilt over leaving my old mum to fend for herself when she's not able to (future tense) has me planning a return to the same area.  Am I mad or just like to suffer or am I unable to turn off the genes that compel me to a deep level of family 'duty'.  I have visions of myself driving her to the doctor while I grit my teeth and listen to my heart pounding out of my chest and steam comes out my ears like some wacky Loony-Tunes character!  Oh well, you do what you have to do right?


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## QuickSilver (Dec 30, 2014)

Well... once they are dead, there's no more phone calls....  However, the guilt remains..  I can assure you.


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## jujube (Dec 30, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> Hmmm, and why were you called the whore?  :love_heart:



As well you might ask.    Here's the story: out of the 11 children in the family, my late husband was the one who was going to be "given" to the church.  Literally from the day of his birth, he was destined for the priesthood (he was the last boy and it was pretty obvious by that time that there wasn't much hope for the older boys being "the chosen one").  After graduating from college at the seminary, he decided he didn't want to be a priest and went into the service. At that point, he wasn't even sure he wanted to be a Catholic any longer. We met at that time and decided to marry.  His mother had hoped that when he got out of the service, he'd "come to his senses" and go back for the final four years of seminary.  Any woman who he married would be objected to, but the fact that I was...gasp...a Protestant made it even worse.....especially a Protestant who didn't want to convert and wasn't going to promise to raise the children Catholic.   Thus, I was "The Whore of Babylon"...who tempted her "holy" son and turned him into an agnostic (even though I didn't know him at the time), which he was til his dying day.


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