# I'm tired of bums with cardboard signs



## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

these are not all Veterans that are on our streets.  I'm beginning to wonder if any of them are??  I lived in 2 shelters since 2015, about March I think.  My sister and I had an awful blow-up, and I moved out immediately, after staying with her since Aug. 2014.  Then I lived in a shelter in Coos Bay OR, and that was for 2 months.  I went camping for 3 weeks, then ended up going South toward "hopefully" Lakeport to get subsidized housing I had signed up for a year before.

Since there was still no availability, I stopped in Eureka CA, staying in a shelter for 5 weeks, until I found a room to rent (shared rooms that is) in a clean and sober house.  It was the only rent I could afford, but they let me in even though I didn't have either addiction to alcohol or drugs.  

So I was all over Eureka, walking, my fave, form of exercise.  I met tons of people, both living with them, and seeing them on the street.  Eureka had a huge residential area I walked in most of the time (99% of the time in fact) to stay away from the bums.  I call them bums because they do not want to live in a shelter or a home because they want to beg money to buy drugs and alcohol.  I am sorry they are addicted, but they don't want help because they want to do what they want to do, and don't want rules.

So now I am in Crescent City, nice, small town.  And today is beautiful, but I have found in my walks, I have little area to avoid the same, kinds of people. I want to go out and enjoy the weather/area but these folks are here, and it is not just depressing, but I also feel anger towards them  Just being honest here and I may get body-slammed.  But if I go near Safeway, Walmart, Grocery Outlet they are there begging.  Some scare me because just the way they look at me.  Some I know steal, I've been stole from myself.

Doesn't our country have any laws against pan-handling, or staying in the woods around the perimeter of towns, I mean within 100 feet of the markets in small towns like this.  How many of these people actually "need" help and how many won't take a shelter if offered.  How many are trying to get out of the gutter?

I don't know, I was so happy to have my own place, but this homeless thing/street people are becoming epidemic.  Feedback welcome, even if it's to tell me I have no heart.  I do though, for folks that are trying to get out, and up on their feet. I met lots of them in the shelters. Denise


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## hossthehermit (Feb 7, 2016)

Judgemental, ain't ya ? Maybe everyone should be required to take a test to see if they are good enough to live in YOUR world


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

hossthehermit said:


> Judgemental, ain't ya ? Maybe everyone should be required to take a test to see if they are good enough to live in YOUR world



I lived in their world, and yes, I am judging them because there are some that are "stealing" because they don't want to follow the laws, and good folks are giving them money.  Enabling them to remain bums.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

hossthehermit said:


> Judgemental, ain't ya ? Maybe everyone should be required to take a test to see if they are good enough to live in YOUR world



Are you a hermit, and curmudgeon, or just fooling around with username "fun"?  If you are, than may I ask why?


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

Are you getting your Social Security check Denise??    What would happen if it stopped?   Yes..  I also find your post a bit judgmental...  No one can know what another person's circumstances are..

Just to show you how it appears..  I went to college Denise...  I have TWO degrees.. I am a Registered Nurse, have worked my way into management and my income is in the Six figures...  I own two houses.... two brand new cars.... I have more than enough money to live comfortably for the rest of my life..   If I could do all this... why didn't you??


See what I'm saying..  I would never say these things to anyone.. because I don't know what the other person has dealt with or what life has dealt them... Neither do you... I am not attacking you.   Nor do I mean to be cruel... just showing you how your post sounds.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

You know "bums" is a non-P.C. word these days, right?

I think a lot of them may _be_ vets. And a lot of them _are_ no doubt alcoholics / druggies. And a lot of them just can't catch a break. 

There comes a point where you are so low that you cannot pull yourself up anymore, and you fall through the cracks of all the social systems. Should there be a law that they have to stay 1,000 feet away from "real" people because it's easier that way not to have to see them? Should they be required to ring a bell and yell "UNCLEAN!" whenever they're on the move?


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## Happyflowerlady (Feb 7, 2016)

I think that most of these people do not want to be helped, Denise. 
I agree with you. 
Most of the ones with signs do not really want to work, they just want people to give them money, and if you offer to take them to the shelter where they can get a free meal and a place to sleep , they will refuse you.  We have offered to do this many times, and I have yet to have even one person actually want to go to a shelter and get food. 
When I see one asking for food, I will usually give them something to eat when I can do that; but most of them only want money, and they will be walking around in new looking clothes and expensive tennis shoes, designer jeans, and often smoking a pack of cigarettes. 
Cigarettes are pretty expensive, so it seems to me that if a person can afford to buy themselves a pack of cigarettes, then they should have been able to get something to eat instead. 

While it is true that some of these people can't help where they are, and probably want to get out of that situation, most of them are content to live like they do , and go around begging for money. 
I have seen where people are warning others about a person who was hanging out at some local store all day, asking for money, and then was picked up by their wife at night, driving a nice new car. 
Some of these people make several hundred dollars each day from handouts; so it is easy to see why they would want to continue living that way. 

I do not think that they are supposed to stand outside of stores or restaurants and stope customers; but they often do. The best thing that I have found, is to report it to the manager of the store and let them deal with the person.
 It scares me ,too, when one of these guys is following me out to my car asking for money !


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

I tried to explain about the differences I saw in those less fortunate.  I am talking about people that are purposely begging money and living outside the system so they do not have to follow the law.

I had no money QS, zero, I lived in those shelters during that time, and followed the rules, so I got to stay.  I believe there is lots of help out there for folks that want to recover, find homes, be a productive member of this country.  I don't think enabling is a healthy thing.  I wasn't enabled, by anyone.  I had to work at the shelters to earn my keep.  Judgmental is sort of an "instant" word whenever someone disagrees with the way other folks might be living, or even cheating other folks.

It's not my job to judge anyone, but I do feel it is my right to question where the "help" is distributed.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

But Denise, don't you see that you're comparing yourself to others?

You have more on the ball than them. You had more resources. Maybe Fate just decided to smile down on you.

You can't know all of their situations just by assumption. Mental illness can also be a driving factor for many of the homeless. They're paranoid, they're delusional, they fear having their stuff stolen in a shelter. Perhaps they were mugged / raped in a shelter.

You just never know.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

I really find it hard to believe that anyone wants to live in the streets and beg for food...and thinks it's just a fine life.    Now.. I'm not talking about the mentally ill..  that is an entire different matter.  Most of these people are paranoid schizophrenics and don't trust anyone..


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

Happyflowerlady said:


> I think that most of these people do not want to be helped, Denise.
> I agree with you.
> Most of the ones with signs do not really want to work, they just want people to give them money, and if you offer to take them to the shelter where they can get a free meal and a place to sleep , they will refuse you.  We have offered to do this many times, and I have yet to have even one person actually want to go to a shelter and get food.
> When I see one asking for food, I will usually give them something to eat when I can do that; but most of them only want money, and they will be walking around in new looking clothes and expensive tennis shoes, designer jeans, and often smoking a pack of cigarettes.
> ...



Thanks Hfl, I am more frightened than judgmental I believe.  I literally do not want to walk out there alone now, not here anyway.  I just wanted to discuss it, and if I am proven wrong, and I am just a judgmental ole biddy, then I can clean up my act.  I just don't feel I am.  I love helping folks that truly want help, whenever I can.  I see them too, doing low-paying jobs, trying.  I don't know how some come to the point of "falling down" but here is just too much help out there if they want help.

I am sure there are some cases where yeah, something unfair was done to them, but it's not an excuse to stay "down" if they are physically, and mentally able to get back up.  There are a lot of mentally ill on the streets.  That is because there are not a lot of mental hospitals I guess.  I think it is a horrible thing that some folks are left to wander by themselves, when they "can't" help themselves  I'm talking about those that can.


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## Don M. (Feb 7, 2016)

While there are probably those who prefer "panhandling" to trying to get a job, I would imagine that many of the "homeless" are suffering from some sort of mental illness.  Given the sorry state of mental health care in this nation, there is little help available for many of these people.  The one's I would feel sorry for are the homeless vets.  Some of these vets have probably been through Hell, and it has affected them mentally...and they are being cast off by our society.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

I have a feeling this is exactly the attitude the top 1% uber rich have about the rest of us..   If we were smart enough or made better decisions.. we would be as rich as they are..


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## Meringue (Feb 7, 2016)

I always think, " there but for the grace of God go I".      And who am I to condemn the less fortunate.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> I really find it hard to believe that anyone wants to live in the streets and beg for food...and thinks it's just a fine life.    Now.. I'm not talking about the mentally ill..  that is an entire different matter.  Most of these people are paranoid schizophrenics and don't trust anyone..



I've met some QS, I don't know about most, but there are folks that do like it.  The do not want to follow the law, it is way more beneficial (financially) to beg money.  It is hard to believe, but it is true.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

Meringue said:


> I always think, " there but for the grace of God go I".      And who am I to condemn the less fortunate.



But are they less fortunate??  There ARE people out there enjoying their "chosen" lifestyle.  They would not give up what they are making off those cardboard signs.  Many have children and pets with them to get more from kind, giving folks that are not informed.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

Don M. said:


> While there are probably those who prefer "panhandling" to trying to get a job, I would imagine that many of the "homeless" are suffering from some sort of mental illness.  Given the sorry state of mental health care in this nation, there is little help available for many of these people.  The one's I would feel sorry for are the homeless vets.  Some of these vets have probably been through Hell, and it has affected them mentally...and they are being cast off by our society.



I would agree Don, but do the Veterans not have VA Hospitals they can go to?  My Uncle worked in one for 30-40 years because he was unable to join the service.  I knew a guy that was offered everything to help him get on with a decent life.  He left after 2 weeks because he wanted to fly his sign.  I know the mental illness must have played into that, or at least his desire to drink.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> I have a feeling this is exactly the attitude the top 1% uber rich have about the rest of us..   If we were smart enough or made better decisions.. we would be as rich as they are..



I know some wealthy, or at least, well-off Republicans and/or christians that do NOT think this way at all.  Of course there are people that think that, there are poor who are judging the other side of the coin as well.  Humans, ALL humans are imperfect, and I admit I am human, surprise surprise.  I will apologize though if I am wrong, and need to straighten up my attitude and ideas about others.


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## tnthomas (Feb 7, 2016)

I believe that alot of these folks have mental health issues- many no doubt because of substance abuse.   The powers-that-be have determined that it would be a violation of their 

constitutional rights to put them in mental health care facilities....also alot cheaper to let them roam the asphalt jungles.

What to  do?    :shrug:


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## GeorgiaXplant (Feb 7, 2016)

Judge not...etc.

Denise, here's how I feel on the subject of what_ appears_ to be another person's situation: I used to be a very, very large person. Actually, I was just plain _fat_. When I finally got to the point where I could no longer live with myself as I was, I went on a diet. It took a long time to lose more than 100 lbs, and after I did, every time I'd see a person who was overweight, I'd think to myself "if I could do it, anybody can do it" but that's not reality. There are people who just can't lose weight for whatever reason. They didn't all get that way by simply cramming food in with both hands.

I don't know when it occurred to me that I was being judgmental, but it did. I had no way of knowing what others' circumstances were, how or whether they had tried to lose weight, what caused them to gain weight in the first place. I was just grateful that I'd had the fortitude to lose my own extra pounds.

It's a case of there-but-for-the-grace-of-God-go-I.

Those folks are more to be pitied than censured.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Are you getting your Social Security check Denise??    What would happen if it stopped?   Yes..  I also find your post a bit judgmental...  No one can know what another person's circumstances are..
> 
> Just to show you how it appears..  I went to college Denise...  I have TWO degrees.. I am a Registered Nurse, have worked my way into management and my income is in the Six figures...  I own two houses.... two brand new cars.... I have more than enough money to live comfortably for the rest of my life..   If I could do all this... why didn't you??
> 
> ...



It sounds that way to you, I understand.  I had every opportunity you did QS, but I neglected to take advantage of it.  That is why I am on low-income retirement money.  I do not feel anyone in this country owes me a thing, I don't believe I am entitled.  The one thing I earned, and feel entitled to is the money I paid in SS.  If I was too sick to function, or incapable of caring for myself, I would hope for some kindness from others, but I never want to be enabled.  Like I said, that is unhealthy for a person that can very well help themselves.

Another thing about me, I was hurt on a warehouse job.  But I didn't file for workman's comp.  It was my fault I was hurt.  I kept on working when I knew I was injuring myself.  Call me stupid, but why sue, or draw money from someone when I knew I did it to myself.  I won't even take anything extra from a foodbank because I have enough to get the things I need, not just grab a bunch of food others need worse than I do.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

GeorgiaXplant said:


> Judge not...etc.
> 
> Denise, here's how I feel on the subject of what_ appears_ to be another person's situation: I used to be a very, very large person. Actually, I was just plain _fat_. When I finally got to the point where I could no longer live with myself as I was, I went on a diet. It took a long time to lose more than 100 lbs, and after I did, every time I'd see a person who was overweight, I'd think to myself "if I could do it, anybody can do it" but that's not reality. There are people who just can't lose weight for whatever reason. They didn't all get that way by simply cramming food in with both hands.
> 
> ...



So even if they choose to be beggars, instead of working they should keep on being enabled?

That's what I am getting from some of you.  This is about people that would rather "milk" the system, than follow the laws, or try to help themselves.  NOT ABOUT people that are truly less fortunate.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

tnthomas said:


> I believe that alot of these folks have mental health issues- many no doubt because of substance abuse.   The powers-that-be have determined that it would be a violation of their
> 
> constitutional rights to put them in mental health care facilities....also alot cheaper to let them roam the asphalt jungles.
> 
> What to  do?    :shrug:



I'm all for finding "what to do" Thomas, that's the whole thing.  Otherwise, it is a growing epidemic out there, of folks that are milking the system, or people, and filling our cities with garbage in the parks areas.  That's the thing to, camp out in the backyard of someplace like Walmart, and dump your garbage everywhere.  They don't care, it's like they do not want to be a part of society unless it benefits them.  But they don't want to benefit society.


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## Lon (Feb 7, 2016)

I agree with you Denise so I guess that makes me a member of the Judgemental Club. I have personally stopped my car, parked it and then personally approached and talked to some of the BUMS that are carrying signs claiming to be VETS all to find out that they are not VETS. One of the local TV stations interviewd  a guy that stands on a prominent street corner that actually bragged that he made over $80,000 pan handling in 2014.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

Hey...  That's capitalism....  I thought you were in favor of that.....  He makes 80 grand doing nothing.. and not breaking the law..  He's an entrepreneur.. shouldn't you be patting him on the back?    lol!!


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

Lon said:


> I agree with you Denise so I guess that makes me a member of the Judgemental Club. I have personally stopped my car, parked it and then personally approached and talked to some of the BUMS that are carrying signs claiming to be VETS all to find out that they are not VETS. One of the local TV stations interviewd  a guy that stands on a prominent street corner that actually bragged that he made over $80,000 pan handling in 2014.



I know about some of these, and that is what I am down on Lon.  Thanks for sharing this.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

Or jealous of?   hahahaha    Hey...  the guy has it figured out!   That's capitalism


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

I can use an analogy here that may better explain where I am coming from.  I believe we, most of us, have to make judgement calls every day.  If you have 2 children, and both are sick, but you can only go to one, what do you do?

Another is, if you see two folks on the street, badly hurt, you are a member of the medical field, and know your business.  You have to judge which needs treatment first.  If you pick wrong, it could cost a life.

This one finally, I have two guys with card-board signs.  One is still begging after I gave him money earlier that day.  Who do I give money to??  Him or the new guy.

I'm beginning to think I am judgemental, but I feel there is a need for it, no matter what some may think.  Maybe "good judgement" is ok??  The work judgemental may mean something else that I am not, but I make decisions every day, judging what or which is the best thing.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

I agree that "judgmental" is one of those loaded words. It means something different to every person. And yes, we make judgments every day.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

SifuPhil said:


> You know "bums" is a non-P.C. word these days, right?
> 
> I think a lot of them may _be_ vets. And a lot of them _are_ no doubt alcoholics / druggies. And a lot of them just can't catch a break.
> 
> There comes a point where you are so low that you cannot pull yourself up anymore, and you fall through the cracks of all the social systems. Should there be a law that they have to stay 1,000 feet away from "real" people because it's easier that way not to have to see them? Should they be required to ring a bell and yell "UNCLEAN!" whenever they're on the move?



I have nothing but empathy for those who have truly tried, or are mentally disabled.  I'm truly not talking about them Phil.  I don't suppose we can know who is who out there, so it's truly throwing the baby out with the bathwater if we don't offer help to all.  I figure that is the conclusion I am coming to.  I can't let it stop me from going out into the streets to enjoy the weather and the exercise.  I am just hoping for some solution that can help all people.  Not just the "street vendors" but also the people that are supporting them.

I totally understand there are folks that hate their lives out there.  And want something more, but I'm not going to enable the guy/or gal that sits with the same sign every day, instead of taking the free shelters, showers new clothing and food to help them get on their feet.  Of course maybe some are saving the money they are earning on the streets so that they can spend it on college, or a place of their own.  I wonder.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

Would you put on a cardboard sign for $80 grand?   hmmmmmm.....  It might be dangerous... and it IS deceiving people... but lots of things out there intentionally deceive people..  But think about it...  $80 grand...not breaking the law....  and if you really wanted to be above board.. you could even pay taxes on it..


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## GeorgiaXplant (Feb 7, 2016)

"When I grow up, I want to be homeless and an addict or an alcoholic" *said no little kid ever*.

The very nature of addiction is that it is NOT a choice. It's an ADDICTION. When people find themselves in that situation, it isn't a matter of not "wanting" to follow rules; it's a matter of addiction taking over.

If just saying no was really something addicts could do, they'd say no and be done with it. We'd have no addicts. It's not a choice; it's a compulsion, an illness needing treatment. 

And, Denise, yes you're entitled to your SS money; we all are, but what if it somehow just went away through no fault of our own? What if all those social programs trying to help us with our health care, housing, utilities, food, all went away, too? Then what? You'd get a job? Remember how hard _you_ tried to get a job? Someone else always got the job instead of you. How easy is it to get a job when you have no address and no phone number that a prospective employer can use to call you? How likely is it that a prospective employer is going to hire somebody who's dity and smelly? And what about those who are too old and infirm to work? 

You see? You may not like the signs, the scruffiness, the general distasteful appearance of those people. None of us like to see it. Maybe it's because it reminds all of us that it could just as well be us out there as them.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

I wouldn't.  I don't know the why's but somewhere along the way I lost interest in any more money than just what I needed.  In other words, I still dream (once in a great while) of having a little more, but no, a lot of money isn't anything I long for.  Maybe that just makes me stupid, and maybe it didn't make me successful with earning money.  Who knows.  

I know this is turning into a more light-hearted thread, and that's ok with me.  It's really only the scarey people out there that make me uncomfy when walking.  And I admit many times I feel so ashamed because I don't have something to give people with signs.  Maybe that's the real reason I posted this.  I do feel sorry for them, for whatever reason they are out there.  And the dogs they have with them, or little kids  I've seen that too.

But enabling is not a very, good word either, or action.  To me it's right up there with judgemental.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 7, 2016)

oh okay maybe my post is too long..

I'll do it in 2 parts..
Part 1-
I think we are all judgemental or insensitive sometimes. We're human. It isn't human nature to be perfect. Denise I understand disliking that someone might just be lazy and panhandle just because they don't want to work. My Granny ( bless her soul) didn't have a prejudice bone in her body except she couldn't abide laziness in any form. I'm sure I was a great disappoinmet LOL Anyway, so lots of us were really taught not be lazy. I have seen on news programs them showing a panhandler get into a brand new cadillac parked a couple blocks away and drive off after panhandling all day. That doesn't mean that all panhandlers are lazy or trying to get over on people. Also a person doesn't have to be a Vietnam vet to have 'issues'. I cannot remember where  read this advice , but it said " If you see someone doing or saying something offensive do not directly and openly disgrace the person with correction, rather give your advice so kindly the person is not even aware you are speaking about them. It is the correction of the fault you want..not the disgrace of another human being."
I blab a LOT of stuff off the top of my head without thinking thus my username BLUNDERWOMAN. LOL. 
Thing is, many people have problems that might prevent them from functioning in society or holding down jobs.  I myself have been battling agoraphobia for years. It can be very debilitating. Many people have problems they haven't been treated for.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 7, 2016)

part 2-
I really thought I was well from the agoraphobia & had been driving and going some places for years. the recent car wreck & broken neck & being stuffed in one room seems to have made me regress some and I'm battling with all I have to stay out in the world. I'm almost too sensitive for social interaction. I have to try though & make myself I realize this. 
What caused this in me?I'm not exactly sure what caused me to be this way, but I do know when I began to withdraw and not come out.
I'd had a life with quite a few VERY traumatic scaring experiences. I seem to have managed to go through those and still function very well, though I had rage issues from holding in rage.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 7, 2016)

part 3-
Then during my marriage my ex moved his family in our house. His mother made Satan jealous because try as he might he just could not be as evil as her. She decided to sabotage my marriage because she didn't want me married to her son and she wanted to 'choose' his wife. ( MAJOR control freak). So.. she stole anything she wanted from me and gave it away to her daughters. I had to go to work bra less one day because she stole my last bra right out of the dryer while it was spinning, I got a new couch.. she put hair dye all over her hair and sat on the couch purposely rubbing her head all over the back of my couch. I would wake up in the morning to her having dumped ALL my expensive spices out on the floor. I would discover she had unplugged my freezer or refrigerator and let everything spoil. She would take all my husbands socks and underwear and hide them or throw them out so he would wake up to get ready for work and yell at me when he couldn't find socks. When I told him his mother was doing it he said " Sure MY MOTHER is taking all my socks. Like I believe that!" Anyway she did this stuff NON STOP. That stuff and much worse. She would pull a chair up about 1 ft away from me and STARE and STARE and STARE at me without moving until I left the room and went to my bedroom.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

Thanks for sharing BW, I think that relates to me a lot.  I've had to at least try to work, and some of these folks could do the same.  I know there are all kinds out there and I don't mean to say that I dislike the people, it's the behaviour I dislike.  You made some very, good points.  Thanks again, denise


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 7, 2016)

part 4-
When I told him she was doing that my ex would say" She said she thinks you're beautiful and she just loves you so much. That's why she notices you." So she would tell him how much she 'loved' me while the whole time sabotaging me. So when I did complain of my abuse I looked like the evil one. he would say " All my mother does is talk about how great you are & look at the horrible way you talk about her!" So... eventually with all of the constant staring I just stayed in my room around the clock because I was afraid I might explode and beat the living snot out of her. Eventually all her tactics did make my husband hate me. It took her 15 years. I had been madly madly in love with my husband. One day I just couldn't take seeing the look of hatred towards me on his face anymore & I asked him to leave after 26 years with him. By that time though I was used to being in my cage. I couldn't leave my room. That is when it started. I'm not sure if that's completely to blame for it..but that is when I shut myself away. it took me a long time to be able to leave the room without the blurry spins and anxiety breakdowns.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 7, 2016)

Why am I telling my life story? Just to share that sometimes people break in places that aren't visible and just don't function like everyone else. After my house burned down and my car burned up I would have been homeless if my ex wasn't COMPLETELY paying for everything to help me out out of the goodness of his heart.
Recently my long lost brother that I never met found me. I've really been excited about talking to him on the phone. He told me his story about how he left home early because of his stepmother. He went on to talk about how she never left the house for any reason no matter what it was. I said " So she was agoraphobic?"  He said " I don't know or care, but anyone who can't leave their house is a NUT!!" 
 lol that's me ..


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## fureverywhere (Feb 7, 2016)

People don't have signs here. They just stay by certain bus stops grubbing change. It does annoy me sometimes. Hey I mean at least walk yourself to welfare or one of those hire by day workers offices. Just sitting there day after day isn't getting you out of this situation.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

I'll be back, I have some errands to do while getting some fresh air walking.  Just don't want anyone to think I am deserting the thread.  I want to hear from you, as many as possible  Thanks, I am feeling different about things, so this has helped to spill my guts on what I knew would be a tough subject, lots of differences in opinion.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 7, 2016)

Denise1952 said:


> Thanks for sharing BW, I think that relates to me a lot.  I've had to at least try to work, and some of these folks could do the same.  I know there are all kinds out there and I don't mean to say that I dislike the people, it's the behaviour I dislike.  You made some very, good points.  Thanks again, denise


Yeah Denise we all travel this river the best we can coming to different conclusions, lessons from what we have personally grasped doing what we can. We don't all take the same forks in the river ((hugs))

The end..
whew..sorry that was so long and windy


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## GeorgiaXplant (Feb 7, 2016)

Denise1952 said:


> Thanks for sharing BW, I think that relates to me a lot.  I've had to at least try to work, and some of these folks could do the same.  I know there are all kinds out there and I don't mean to say that I dislike the people, it's the behaviour I dislike.  You made some very, good points.  Thanks again, denise



You've tried to work. How do you know that the very people you're talking about haven't tried? How do you know that they haven't hit one too many brick walls before just giving up and accepting that their lives will never be what they were before they fell down a black hole?

When you first started this thread, you tarred them all with the same brush. As it's gone on and people have pointed out the fallacy of your thinking on many points, you've back-pedaled, then gone back to judging them all.

Quite frankly, Denise, I think there's one big thing at play here and that is that you're scared. Scared of the possibility that you could become one of them. 

There are as many stories out there as there are people who frighten you. Please don't assign labels to them. You hear about this one or that one who's scamming people or gaming the system. They are not the majority. We don't often hear the stories of those who are the majority and they are as deserving of our compassion as anybody else who suffers from any other sort of misfortune. 

I should think you would be much more compassionate than most by virtue of having lived through your own trials. Mostly what your words do is smack of smugness. You survived and came out ahead; therefore, everybody else should as well.


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## Cookie (Feb 7, 2016)

I've got to wonder, Denise, how things developed that you were broke and homeless yourself living in your truck and then in a shelter. You didn't say why you were living with your sister to begin with or why she turned you out after a blowout. There are two sides to every story and we all play a part in our circumstances and then things get out of hand. 

These street people/scammers might look like they are not 'trying' but we really don't know what is going on with them, they might be schizophrenic or drug addicted or just social misfits.  As you know, it isn't easy to get it together, and some people have really given up, after having been knocked about all their lives, they really don't want to be part of the corruption and mess anymore. I can relate to that, but luckily I never got that far gone that I couldn't pull myself up again, unlike them. 

On the lighter side, this movie was lots of fun and addresses the issue (somewhat)


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## Shalimar (Feb 7, 2016)

There are over a million homeless children in America. I can't  find good data for Canada.

I have lived on the streets in Vancouver bc. It gets cold there. A few people may wish to live on the streets. I guarantee you from working among the indigent for decades, the majority do not.  If I had not been rescued, received 


help for PTSD, bad the opportunity to get an education etc. I would have died on the mean streets, probably forced into the sex trade.  i still don't know why I did not become an addict.. I certainly was abused enough.  Denise, you mean well, but you clearly have not seen/experienced the brutality and anguish out there a stone's through away. Under the wrong 


circumstances, any of us could end up there. I have seen teenagers, dead from hypothermia or worse.old women beaten senseless  for a  pair  of  boots. And the children!! Some of those shelters would terrify  rats never mind people. Vets, mentally ill, people so 

abused they have no other place to go. on and on and on. old people too poor to afford accommodation on the 
pittance they receive, to poor to move somewhere else. Families fleeing violence.  It is so easy to pass judgement on all because of a few "bad apples." 

I live in a country which embraces social programs, but still falls short in dealing with the homeless problem. Our new prime minister has pledged to address the thousands of homeless vets, and work towards solutions for the rest of the hhomeless. I 

hope something can be done soon..  I assure you, those Individuals homeless in minus twenty five temps. Dont' want to be there. There are not enough shelters for everyone. Many will not take families. Many are not safe.


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## Underock1 (Feb 7, 2016)

As with everything in life, it ain't simple. There is something to be said for all sides here. When I worked in the Wall Street area, there was a little old lady on the street every lunch hour selling either pencils or needles and pins. I had to work late once and happened to see her being picked up at night by a limo. I also remember being approached by a very well dressed man claiming he had lost his wallet and needed money for a phone call or Subway fare. A few days later I ran into him again and he approached me with the same story. They're out there. No doubt about it, So are the vets, mentally ill, and those truly in need through no fault of their own. Separating the wheat from the chaff is the problem. I agree with everyone here.


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## Lon (Feb 7, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Or jealous of?   hahahaha    Hey...  the guy has it figured out!   That's capitalism



That's not Capitalism--------The ones that give a quick clean to your wind shield and hold their hand out for payment are Capatalist.


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## Lon (Feb 7, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Would you put on a cardboard sign for $80 grand?   hmmmmmm.....  It might be dangerous... and it IS deceiving people... but lots of things out there intentionally deceive people..  But think about it...  $80 grand...not breaking the law....  and if you really wanted to be above board.. you could even pay taxes on it..



Pandering is illegal in most all juristrictions, it's just not enforced.


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## Underock1 (Feb 7, 2016)

Not taking sides here, but isn't calling Denise "judgemental", being judgemental?


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

Ok.... then lets get them all arrested and we can support the with our tax dollar in jail... Three hots and a cot you know...


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

Or we can just execute them all...


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

Underock1 said:


> Not taking sides here, but isn't calling Denise "judgemental", being judgemental?



Hey! You're being judgmental, calling people judgmental that are calling Denise judgmental! 

Welcome to my rabbit hole!


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Or we can just execute them all...



Do you need the services of me and my vigilantes?


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

Sure go for it...


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 7, 2016)

Underock1 said:


> Not taking sides here, but isn't calling Denise "judgemental", being judgemental?


Once I was reading some comments on youtube & one really cracked me up it  said
" I hate all you haters out there! All you do is spread hatred!! You suck!!"


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Sure go for it...



We need to be paid for our services, though - we're still capitalists, you know.

Or will the government pick up our tab?


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## GeorgiaXplant (Feb 7, 2016)

Underock1 said:


> Not taking sides here, but isn't calling Denise "judgemental", being judgemental?



in a word, no


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

GeorgiaXplant said:


> in a word, no



So, what are rules concerning when we are or are not being judgmental? I'm confused.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

SifuPhil said:


> We need to be paid for our services, though - we're still capitalists, you know.
> 
> Or will the government pick up our tab?



I would think you would be happy to do it for the sheer joy of it... and  Ya know... keep your skills sharp...


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> I would think you would be happy to do it for the sheer joy of it... and  Ya know... keep your skills sharp...



Well, going after anyone who looks like a gang banger keeps our skills plenty sharp already.

The sheer joy of it, yes, we agree - but bullets and knife sharpening still cost money. As do our nifty uniforms.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Feb 7, 2016)

Phil, keep in mind that in WWII, the Germans had some pretty nice uniforms. They still only ended up in second place.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

GeorgiaXplant said:


> Phil, keep in mind that in WWII, the Germans had some pretty nice uniforms. They still only ended up in second place.



Only because the U.S. soldiers had more government money behind them. 

And we vigilantes don't mind ending up in second place, as long as innocent civilians do not.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

I'm against enabling people not to get on their, own, two feet, if they are able.  As far as back-peddling, or changing my mind, my mind is open to other folks helping me if I have a wrong attitude, or idea.   

I learned a lot from this thread, thank you all for you comments


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## Karen99 (Feb 7, 2016)

I believe there are countless reasons for homelessness.  I wonder what the answer is.  I certainly do not know.  Years ago people could go to Social Services and get a room/ food voucher.  The room was a fleabag hotel for a night or more.   i see broken lives in the homeless...but people who aren't homeless have all the same problems.  Go figure.  Alcohol, drugs tear up the fabric of people's lives...but so do countless other things.  I just think we are all frail human beings.  

It's great some people are financially secure but even that is no guarantee of happiness.  Some people live miserly, paranoid lives while stacking up their money and feeling all smug and superior.  I only know everything is fleeting and if you think it's not...think again.  I think my years of typing reports and taking calls at a sheriffs dept. opened a window into the lives of ordinary people I never imagined.  It humbled me in many ways.  People make some terrible decisions in a moment of weakness that forever changes them and people who love them.  

I worked for what I have, but I always knew even then..things can blow up.  Companies go broke or bankrupt.  I don't focus on all the misery in the world 24/7 or I'd go crazy (crazier? Lol)...but I have a healthy respect for being lucky to have come this far.

i think of my husband's cousin.  She was a brilliant, beautiful girl.  She worked hard to become an attorney and found a great guy to marry.  She was pregnant with her first child when she layed down to take a nap and never woke...brain aneurism.  Her devastated husband (also an attorney) just kind of dropped out...quit a good job and moved away.  I always wondered if he was able to pick up the pieces.  Anyway, I know we all know of stories like this.  I just feel fortunate to be here and to have what I do.  I don't know if there is a final answer.  Denise, I'm sorry you feel unsafe where you like to walk...but I'm also glad you have a home.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 7, 2016)

SifuPhil said:


> Only because the U.S. soldiers had more government money behind them.
> 
> And we vigilantes don't mind ending up in second place, as long as innocent civilians do not.



Of course you would have absolute certainty who was innocent and who wasn't....  but if not... what's a little "collateral damage" in the greater scheme of things....   By the way.. I can get you a deal on some nice BROWN fabric for your "nifty uniforms"..


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## Underock1 (Feb 7, 2016)

SifuPhil said:


> Hey! You're being judgmental, calling people judgmental that are calling Denise judgmental!
> 
> Welcome to my rabbit hole!



:yes: Excellent, Phil! I love it! :applause2:


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## Shalimar (Feb 7, 2016)

Personally I find the idea of it being your rabbit hole, judgemental. Has anyone read R.D. Laing's book Knots? It is awesome.


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## Underock1 (Feb 7, 2016)

GeorgiaXplant said:


> in a word, no



I'll be the judge of that. :wiggle:


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Of course you would have absolute certainty who was innocent and who wasn't....  but if not... what's a little "collateral damage" in the greater scheme of things....   By the way.. I can get you a deal on some nice BROWN fabric for your "nifty uniforms"..



Actually, we were discussing changing over to hot pink with taupe accents ...


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## Shalimar (Feb 7, 2016)

Red is best. It hides the blood.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Personally I find the idea of it being your rabbit hole, judgemental. Has anyone read R.D. Laing's book Knots? It is awesome.



Jill can see Jack can't see ... 

Yep. 

It IS my rabbit hole, because I sweep it out once in a while, and have a nifty little wood plaque with my name on it up top.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Red is best. It hides the blood.




Too vibrant, too screaming for attention. Plus, it fades after too many washings. 

I wanted all black, with ski masks, but got shot down.

Literally - Alphonse forgot the safety on his Glock. *sigh*


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## jujube (Feb 7, 2016)

hossthehermit said:


> Judgemental, ain't ya ? Maybe everyone should be required to take a test to see if they are good enough to live in YOUR world



That was uncalled for.


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## Shalimar (Feb 7, 2016)

Philly, did you find Alice down that rabbit hole? Perhaps a caterpillar? Go ask Alice when she's ten feet tall! Gimme that mushroom.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Philly, did you find Alice down that rabbit hole? Perhaps a caterpillar? Go ask Alice when she's ten feet tall! Gimme that mushroom.



Actually I ran into the Caterpillar first, we toked up and I forgot about anything else.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 7, 2016)

Denise, I'm sorry you have to put up with this now during your walks that were always so pleasant for you.  Some states are worse for this thing compared to Oregon, Colorado, etc. and some areas are worse than others for sure.  I used to give but don't anymore (or at least very rarely), not since I've experienced firsthand some of the attitudes on these people and their aggressiveness.  The scammers do a great injustice to the people who are really down and out.

Like Happyflowerlady said, some truly want help and not live on the streets, and some are career panhandlers out for easy money.

  Many are fake vets trying to work off of people's sympathy too.  My heart goes out to all of our veterans who fought in senseless wars in hellish places only to come home to the US and be kicked to the curb with their service related physical, mental and emotional injuries.  Many of our troops do end up homeless and not everyone wants to enter a shelter because they have addictions to deal with and aren't ready to let them go in a supervised environment.  I can understand that.

All the panhandler scammers out there give a bad name to the folks who are truly down on their luck and homeless.  I'm not a mind-reader, but a pretty good judge of character being street-smart and growing up in a big city.  Just talking to someone for a couple of minutes can usually tell me if they're the real deal, or somebody trying to run a game.


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## jujube (Feb 7, 2016)

I will be the first to admit I'm judgmental about most of the guys (and women) who stand outside Walmart and panhandle. I've seen too many of them get into cars that are a lot nicer than what my hard-earned money bought.  I've seen them going in and out of the liquor store next door.  I'm judgmental and I won't apologize for it.


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 7, 2016)

I understood what you were saying Denise and you have every right to your opinion. When we lived in Jacksonville, FL amost everytime I went to Walmart there were these same people standing holding out signs for money for food. 

There was a What A Burger place right next to where they were standing so one day I went and ordered food for them there and brought it back to them. They took it, but then asked me if I could give them some money too. A couple of nights later I saw those same people on the evening news...they were running a scam and making alot of money by making people think they needed it. But the News people had caught them in their scam.

 There are many people out there that really are going through hard times and need help...but there are all so alot of people who are scammers too. How do you tell them apart...most of the time you don't. But I'm tired of scammers too and I'll tell you why, those scammers make it harder for those who really need help to get the help they need. And I hate that the innocent have to suffer for those who are not innocent. If you feel scared of some of these people Denise...it may be your intuition warning you that there is danger ahead...and that's a good thing. Go with your first instinct, you are trying to take care of yourself in a world that daily is getting darker and where bad is starting to take over more and more.


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## Cookie (Feb 7, 2016)

I agree that the scammers who are pretending to be handicapped and poor make it harder for the truly needy.... but I find it interesting that we can be so indignant when it comes to low level scammers pretending to be needy .... we really want the poor to be poor before we help them and that is understandable.  I wonder how much the individuals bring in or if it is a big racket and they are just working for some higher ups - maybe both.

In India individual beggars are often part of a syndicate like organization and only get a small amount for the money they get, often actually
maimed or blinded for their 'jobs'.  The beggars here might be similar - in a way. Dress in their professional beggar outfits for the day, etc.

What I find interesting is that we more or less accept (for want of better word) or at least tolerate high level scammers - the mafia, white collar crime, marketing scams, government corruption, etc. etc. but poor people pretending to be poorer is something we can't take or risk giving a dollar to in case they are fakes.

Its is a very dirty world with everyone trying to survive or get ahead and not everyone plays the game fairly, as we can see around us every day, police brutality, murders, powerful people doing dirty deeds, the damage to the environment, nuclear threats, invasions, wars and genocide...... 
What can we do, either fix it or don't go there?


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

Can't thank you enough Seabreeze, I never meant I hated anyone.  I just was feeling disappointed, and yes, a bit scared to go out for walks.  But anyway, I am glad a few folks didn't "burn me at the stake" for having some bad feelings I decided to share here. Denise


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## Jackie22 (Feb 7, 2016)

Cookie said:


> I agree that the scammers who are pretending to be handicapped and poor make it harder for the truly needy.... but I find it interesting that we can be so indignant when it comes to low level scammers pretending to be needy .... we really want the poor to be poor before we help them and that is understandable.  I wonder how much the individuals bring in or if it is a big racket and they are just working for some higher ups - maybe both.
> 
> In India individual beggars are often part of a syndicate like organization and only get a small amount for the money they get, often actually
> maimed or blinded for their 'jobs'.  The beggars here might be similar - in a way. Dress in their professional beggar outfits for the day, etc.
> ...



Very well said, Cookie, if everyone turned their back to a just cause or to the poor and needy because of the ones that are corrupt or faking it, it would be a sad sad world.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 7, 2016)

Thanks Babs,

I met a little gal at that house I was staying in.  She was staying out in a place called the Devil's Playground in Eureka.  She got raped, and beat up by a group she had been hanging with for protection.  I mean she felt safe with them.  She was one of the last I knew that came into the house at Eureka.  I encouraged her as much as possible, helped her go through some clothing that was "giveaway".  She really did have some mental illness, I don't know what will happen to her but she wanted a real life, and was really trying.

Funny part is, when I first met her I was scared of her.  Then after her being around the house, I started seeing who she really was.  

I should remember it's probably the ones that "don't" look scarey, and the ones that have families, and everyone likes them I should be afraid of.


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## Shalimar (Feb 7, 2016)

Ooh, this thread brings back memories. Sixteen, Vancouver in November. No home, no money, no social insurance number, a duffel bag for belongings. A tarp to protect me from the elements. I was there because it was safer than being at home. Ate 

out  of dumpsters, panhandled. Some people were kind, some judgemental, some wanted to trade food for sex. Others money for sex. At sixteen,I looked like a well developed fourteen year old. Charming. I have some trouble with some of the less than 

compassionate comments I have heard on this thread. Would any of you  have tried to help the lost child I was, or would you have turned away assuming I was just another loser/addict/scammer?  Therapist or not, I am crying, for all the invisible lost 

people. It can happen to anyone, of any age,  given the wrong circumstances.  I pray it doesn't happen to anyone here.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 7, 2016)

Denise1952 said:


> Can't thank you enough Seabreeze, I never meant I hated anyone.  I just was feeling disappointed, and yes, a bit scared to go out for walks.  But anyway, I am glad a few folks didn't "burn me at the stake" for having some bad feelings I decided to share here. Denise



It was clear you didn't hate anybody.  And I can understand your disappointment and fear, that's unfortunate, but realistic.  I don't have that much exposure to these people anymore, but I can definitely share your annoyance of them being in your face on a daily basis.  Like some of us have acknowledged, not all panhandlers are nice and honest people, they shouldn't all be trusted with our kind hearts.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 7, 2016)

Cookie said:


> What I find interesting is that we more or less accept (for want of better word) or at least tolerate high level scammers - the mafia, white collar crime, marketing scams, government corruption, etc. etc. but poor people pretending to be poorer is something we can't take or risk giving a dollar to in case they are fakes.



I don't think any of us accept or willingly tolerate any scammers, government, white collar or marketing.  But they are not up close and personal, in our face, like some of the street beggars and panhandlers that many people have to deal with on a daily basis unfortunately.  I personally will not willingly give someone who's scamming me, my hard earned money, there are a lot of victims in this world, some legit and some not... I won't be a victim of a deceptive scammer. I will give to those in need, even if it's thorough local shelters, food banks, etc.


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## Cookie (Feb 7, 2016)

I think you are right not to give to anyone you suspect is a fake beggar SB, and donating to food banks and shelters and other charitable organizations is the best way to go.  And it is a nasty experience to be accosted by panhandlers in your face on your way to work or shopping, more personal than seeing something on tv news or movies, and also intimidating, as I know, having had that experience myself. 

Perhaps we feel that high level crime/corruption is out of our control and somewhere 'out there' but giving our hard earned money to beggars is more personal and something we have some choice about. I do notice that for years people have been complaining about welfare scammers and the like, how its coming from their tax dollars, yet I don't hear anyone complaining about corporate greed and government corruption, even though much larger amounts of money are involved. Not saying anyone here is right or wrong, just noticing. 

Whatever the case is, its hard to make a judgement call on this subject regarding beggars, I find, as we don't know how or why these people chose to do this, something for them has gone wrong and they have resorted to this way of life, but I agree we don't have to be their victims either.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 7, 2016)

Back when I lived in NYC homelessness was all around - you couldn't walk a block without seeing someone either sleeping over a sewer grate to stay warm or panhandling.

Back then, at least as well as I can remember, there was never a big stink about scams - most of the homeless you saw were the real thing. 

And yes, a lot of them could be scary. I had one lady walking toward me on the sidewalk in the middle of the day, carrying a big shopping bag. I moved over a few inches to let her pass, and all of a sudden she screamed "HIIIIYAHHH" and swung the bag at me.

My reflexes allowed me to jump out of the way, at which point she started laughing hilariously and kept walking.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 7, 2016)

SifuPhil said:


> Back when I lived in NYC homelessness was all around - you couldn't walk a block without seeing someone either sleeping over a sewer grate to stay warm or panhandling.
> 
> Back then, at least as well as I can remember, there was never a big stink about scams - most of the homeless you saw were the real thing.
> 
> ...


That reminds me of one time I was standing outside the county hospital in Houston at night . I was waiting for my ex to pull the car around and pick me up. There was this HUGE muscle bound man that was going around to every trash can and lifting the lid and talking to the trash and laughing. Then quite suddenly he came right next to  me and yelled " Give me a cigarette! I gave him my whole pack. I must admit that scared me.


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## Sunny (Feb 9, 2016)

Occasionally I see a panhandler standing at a traffic intersection, with an obviously false leg. This would be a very hard thing to fake, so I usually hand them a dollar.
Otherwise, I'm pretty skeptical.


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## fureverywhere (Feb 9, 2016)

That was a big difference moving from here to PA and back again. In small town Pennsylvania people would walk around smiling. If you were walking a stranger might pull over and ask if you needed a ride. If there was a disturbance in public people would go running to look. I remember my uncles running out to follow the fire truck. 

Here you might look up and smile if you recognize someone. Otherwise you don't make eye contact. People do not stop and offer strangers rides. I remember being in traffic one day and this poor lady got bumped by a truck pulling out. She fell against the sidewalk, quite pregnant too. It took some time for a few brave souls to pull over and help her.

There's helping and there's helping. The lady I would help, but if you're grubbing small change on a block with a liquor store...nah


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## Denise1952 (Feb 9, 2016)

I can't thank everyone enough for their posts/replies here.  This morning I got a huge wake-up call from God of my understanding, the God of the bible.  I realized how far from Him I'd drifted, and how Georgia was especially right about me being afraid I would end up being one of those folks with a cardboard sign.  I am ashamed, but at the same time, I am glad it's all happened.  My heart is changed,  it was hardened, against lots of things, and lots of people.  Want to post this video, I don't think it came around by accident.  I know not all believe in Jesus, the God of the bible (is my belief) if not, I just hope you will know that I do appreciate those that had such good, advice, and thoughts on what the OP said, Denise


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## Shalimar (Feb 9, 2016)

Hmmm. When I was a sixteen year old homeless kid in Vancouver, I don't know if I begged for help on streets with or without liquor stores, kinda hard to tell, in the rain, when you wear glasses.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 9, 2016)

My mom, grandmother, and many more of my ancestors were born in Victoria Shalimar.  I have an ancestor's page here if you want to take a peek.  I look/read it every, once in awhile:

http://nowandthengenealogy.tripod.com/XavierVautrinBio.html
7th paragraph under Amelie Vautrin--first marriage, the daughter Ethel, is my grandmother.

My dad was born in Ontario, and he holds the Welsh side of the family.  My gg grand-dad, Xavier, what French Canadian from Quebec.  (I think gg, I lose track, lol)


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## Shalimar (Feb 9, 2016)

Denise, you definitely look Quebec French.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Feb 9, 2016)

I don't look like Denise, and I _am_ Quebec French. What does Quebec French look like?


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## fureverywhere (Feb 9, 2016)

Shalimar, kids and teens are a different story. I'll buy them something to eat.


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## Shalimar (Feb 9, 2016)

Apologies for profiling Georgia. What I should have said is that I have met many Québécois who share some  physical characteristics with Denise. Mea culpa, please do not throw biscuits at the mermaid.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 9, 2016)

LOL, Shalimar  I've done the same thing, especially with folks I think "look" Irish for example


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## Shalimar (Feb 9, 2016)

I am a Celtic mix, yet Scotsmen insist I look like a Scot because of my auburn hair. Irish say I resemble them for the gift of the gab. Welsh relatives called me a witch. Lolol. Who knows?


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## Denise1952 (Feb 9, 2016)

I think I get a lot of my "perceptions" from movies.  Remember the ole witch in Wizard of Oz?  Well, now they have witches that look like Michelle Pfeifer, LOL


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## GeorgiaXplant (Feb 9, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Apologies for profiling Georgia. What I should have said is that I have met many Québécois who share some  physical characteristics with Denise. Mea culpa, please do not throw biscuits at the mermaid.



Biscuits? Never! Rocks maybe but never biscuits!


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## Denise1952 (Feb 9, 2016)

Maybe you posted on this Shalimar, but I was wondering if there is a lot of homelessness in Canada?  I haven't been to Victoria, or any of BC for about 15 years.  It was lovely there.  I grew up hearing about the Butchart Gardens, the Palace, etc.


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## Debby (Feb 14, 2016)

I would think that homelessness is no less a problem here Denise.  There is a little city in BC called Abbotsford and a couple years ago, there were quite a number of homeless people camped out in a public park there.  I guess there was such an outcry from the public that the town council tried to 'encourage' them to move on by dumping manure in the area that they were camped in (was the justification fertilizing the grass?).  But I think they were forced to clean it up after the court weighed in and said they couldn't do that.  So yeah, we have homeless people too.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Feb 14, 2016)

Years ago my MIL said we didn't have any homeless people in our hometown. How did she know that? Because "I haven't ever seen any."


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## FazeFour (Feb 14, 2016)

While living in the Sacramento, California area in 2003, I was appalled to see hundreds of homeless and/or panhandlers all over the city. I gave pocket change when I had it. The ones I gave more generously to were those who offered a little something in exchange, often that was a clean windshield, sometimes just a song or a poem. I thought what would help best was going to the city counsel to ask questions and find solutions. What a frustrating and exhausting experience that was!!! And after 4-5 months of meeting with various city officials and their representatives, nothing changed and no change was even initiated. Police will move the homeless and panhandlers when pressed to do so, but by and large, the police know what these people are up against, and that there is no expedient help for them, and therefore will let it be until there are multiple complaints. 

I urge anyone who wants to do something about it to contact their city counsel or mayor. Maybe your city officials will be more receptive and concerned than those in Sacramento.


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## Susie (Feb 14, 2016)

Making light of homelessness/begging is neither my idea of fun or entertainment as it appears in some sections of this thread.
How can any modern, advanced country with 1000's of super rich have millions of homeless, begging in the street?
Where's the compassion, where's the sharing?
Why is there no structure in place for these poor. needy human beings?


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## FazeFour (Feb 14, 2016)

Susie said:


> Why is there no structure in place for these poor. needy human beings?



The help is available, but one must be on time for a minimum of 3 appointments (with social services or SSA), fill out a stack of applications, and have a mailing address. Then there's a wait of up to 3 months for applications to be processed and a final appointment scheduled. About 70% of the time, more information is requested at that time and assistance is put on hold. If it's housing you need, the wait is a minimum of one year, and the applicant must re-apply every year and must provide a mailing address. Homeless people with children (or dependents) get priority consideration, and even they can expect a year long wait period. If you have a felony criminal record, even an old one, you are not eligible for general housing. If you owe back taxes, you might not receive assistance. 

All of this varies from state to state, but bottom line is, a ton of red-tape, a number of hoops, and a lack of housing keeps many homeless people homeless.


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## Bettyann (Feb 15, 2016)

Every comment seems to have some valid points (including Denise's!!) There are bums/homeless because they can't help it and no one is helping THEM .... and then... you have some 'professionals' ... I was sitting in a Burger King one morning and overheard these two homeless guys (sitting right in back of me) and was shocked at their conversation.

They were both very intelligent and their conversation bore this out. One had 'escaped' from having to work to support a family because he couldn't deal with it anymore... The other just figured he would try out this life style... They both had places to sleep every nite and Denver has MANY places that serve free meals every day of the week. One said that, if he wanted to, he could go back to work, but 'hell no I don't want to go back to that day to day run of the mill shit' ...were his words... The other agreed...he didn't want to 'go back  to that either.' 

They did a lot of 'canning'....collecting cans to turn in for cash... and they also had signs they carried. Yes, maybe these guys ARE the exception, but they DO exist...
The most pitiful homeless are the discarded vets... we employed them to serve 'god and country' and go kill people in foreign lands...and then they come back and FEW actually get medical or mental health...some of their minds are so destroyed from war that they are totally unable to function in a 'regular setting.'

 Our government COULD HELP THESE PEOPLE....with extensive medical and mental attention and care and training...not just 'provide a cot to sleep on and feed them'... but our priorities are totally screwed up with nearly HALF OF ALL OUR TAXES going to the military....wars that we WANT (gov and corporations especially) because PROFIT is to be had.
Its all very controversial and has MANY sides to it....


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## Butterfly (Feb 15, 2016)

Here, the wait for housing is so long they aren't even taking applications anymore, and haven't for over two years.  And getting other help is an enormous hassle and you have to have all kinds of documentation, show up places for appointments, etc., have a mailing address and so on.  Most truly homeless people don't have the means to get around to appointments, nor do they have mailing addresses and documentation.  I came up against all this when I was trying to help out my niece when she got sick.  It's a huge project even if you have transportation, an address to receive mail, and know what you are doing.  There's no compassion in ANY of the so-called helping agencies. None at all.


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