# It's in mens DNA



## senior chef (Oct 2, 2021)

A few months back, while waiting in the Dr's office, I read an interesting article on men's DNA and their choice of mate.
The article was written by an anthropologist who had traveled the world and "tested" men from a wide range of cultures, from the big cities to small villages to jungle tribes.

The men were shown a series of female silhouettes: full body, but no hint of skin color, hair or eye color. Not even bust size, or anything except the actual body shape.

The men were asked to point to the shape that they felt were the most attractive as a potential mate. 
The silhouettes ranged from nearly 'stick' figures to heavy 'plus' sizes.
Not surprisingly, neither the stick figures nor the 'plus' sizes faired well. 
So, what did ?

The shape most selected was that of a woman with a waist aprox 70 % of the hip size.
Why that particular shape ? It seems that it is indicative of youth and most likely to produce a healthy child. 
The anthropologist went on to say that men are not consciously aware of this but that it is written in his DNA.

Below is an example, but not precisely accurate to the ones I saw in that article.


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## Gary O' (Oct 2, 2021)

Well, I'm a booty guy, sooooo


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## senior chef (Oct 2, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Well, I'm a booty guy, sooooo
> 
> View attachment 187087


Ha ha ha.  Then you'd love Mexico. The women here are widely known for big butts. If you have ever seen the film "Selena" then you know exactly what I mean. 
Personally, I much prefer petite and trim.


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## Warrigal (Oct 2, 2021)

Gentlemen, do tell the actual silhouette of any females who were interested in combining their DNA with yours. I ask out of scientific interest.


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## senior chef (Oct 2, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Gentlemen, do tell the actual silhouette of any females who were interested in combining their DNA with yours. I ask out of scientific interest.


Hmm ? I don't understand what you are asking.


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## Warrigal (Oct 2, 2021)

It's all very well males being picky over the shape of young women but for the most part it is the young women who do the selecting when it comes to a mate.


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## senior chef (Oct 2, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> It's all very well males being picky over the shape of young women but for the most part it is the young women who do the selecting when it comes to a mate.


Yes, indeed. No question about it. 
However, most women do not make any serious moves on her choice of mate. She may prefer guy X , Y, or Z but if he does not approach her, then she is left with only those men who are interested AND who try to get her.


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## Warrigal (Oct 2, 2021)

My dear Chef, you are so naive


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## Leonie (Oct 2, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yes, indeed. No question about it.
> However, most women do not make any serious moves on her choice of mate. She may prefer guy X , Y, or Z but if he does not approach her, then she is left with only those men who are interested AND who try to get her.


I'm not sure that's true anymore senior chef, probably never was.  We have our ways.      But, it's probably the way men see it.   I remember that line in 'Cleopatra' where it is said that 'she chooses in the manner of a man, rather than waiting to be chosen'  or something like that.  Cleo had them all worked out.  LOL


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## senior chef (Oct 2, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> My dear Chef, you are so naive


Ok. If you want to believe that, then that's fine with me.


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## senior chef (Oct 2, 2021)

Leonie said:


> I'm not sure that's true anymore senior chef, probably never was.  We have our ways.      But, it's probably the way men see it.   I remember that line in 'Cleopatra' where it is said that 'she chooses in the manner of a man, rather than waiting to be chosen'  or something like that.  Cleo had them all worked out.  LOL


Naturally, I can't speak about how things are today. But, I have had dozens and dozen of female friends. of my age,  who confided in me, that they wanted X, Y or Z , but when I tried to talk them into making the 1st move, they almost always backed off and simply could not, or would not, make the 1st move.


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## Leonie (Oct 2, 2021)

Only a couple of weeks ago a male friend around my age (76) confided that a slightly younger woman slipped a note into his pocket, asking if he would like to go for coffee sometime.  They had recently met doing some volunteering work.  Maybe women are becoming bolder now that we are older and outnumber men.


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

Pursuit of relationships can be a strange thing.
I remember when I was aprox 19 years old, I had a neighbor who was a Playboy bunny. She was not at all interested in me. She wanted a guy who was gay and she tried and tried to get him in her bed. To no avail.  That perplexed the hell out of me.


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

Leonie said:


> I'm not sure that's true anymore senior chef, probably never was.  We have our ways.      But, it's probably the way men see it.   I remember that line in 'Cleopatra' where it is said that 'she chooses in the manner of a man,* rather than waiting to be chosen'*  or something like that.  Cleo had them all worked out.  LOL


Yes, I remember that line in "Cleopatra" movie.  Someone, perhaps the script writer, thought women usually wait to be chosen.


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## Fyrefox (Oct 3, 2021)

Showing guys those silhouettes, maybe they were _really _trying to see which men were attracted to…_*shadow people!  

*_


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## Purwell (Oct 3, 2021)

> Pursuit of relationships can be a strange thing.
> I remember when I was aprox 19 years old, I had a neighbor who was a Playboy bunny. She was not at all interested in me. She wanted a guy who was gay and she tried and tried to get him in her bed. To no avail. That perplexed the hell out of me.


Probably scared the crap out of him!


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## rgp (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> A few months back, while waiting in the Dr's office, I read an interesting article on men's DNA and their choice of mate.
> The article was written by an anthropologist who had traveled the world and "tested" men from a wide range of cultures, from the big cities to small villages to jungle tribes.
> 
> The men were shown a series of female silhouettes: full body, but no hint of skin color, hair or eye color. Not even bust size, or anything except the actual body shape.
> ...



 Got her phone number ? .....


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## Buckeye (Oct 3, 2021)

My daddy told me that all the girls were pretty, but some of them just barely make it...


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## Alligatorob (Oct 3, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> for the most part it is the young women who do the selecting when it comes to a mate


Yes, and it has been a very long time since a young woman of any silhouette would have been interested in my DNA!

Which is fine with me, I like mature women.


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## Gary O' (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Then you'd love Mexico. The women here are widely known for big butts.


Yeah, I know
Spent some time there
They start out slim
At around 30, grow into womanhood
I hooked up with some 30 somethings
Good cooks, too


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## Alligatorob (Oct 3, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> hooked up with some 30 somethings


Still about 30 something years too young for me, of late...


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## Tom 86 (Oct 3, 2021)

Nowadays the girls go after the guys.  My Grandson is a good example 19 years old.  He went roller skating a year ago just for fun.  Well as they did a tag skate this girl kept coming up to him & wanting to skate with him.  After the 3rd round, she asked him to go out with her.

Long story short.  They are still together, so she picked him not the other way around.  I must say she is petite he's 6'4" & she is 5'2"  nice figure. she is also 19 years old.  Went to the same school till they graduated but never knew each other in school.


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## cdestroyer (Oct 3, 2021)

oh so yalls think men have a choice? better rethink that!!


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## Nathan (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Pursuit of relationships can be a strange thing.
> I remember when I was aprox 19 years old, I had a neighbor who was a Playboy bunny. She was not at all interested in me. She wanted a guy who was gay and she tried and tried to get him in her bed. To no avail.  That perplexed the hell out of me.


Here's the deal:  gay men are "safe", meaning no pressure sexually.

Some women like the challenge of bedding a gay man, "converting" him to hetero, which would be a big feather in her bonnet.

Thing is- guys don't *switch teams*, if their straight they're straight, if they're gay they stay gay.

In Seinfeld Elaine tried to _convert _a guy, didn't really work:


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## squatting dog (Oct 3, 2021)

My wife chose me... still not certain why. Did she really want the DNA of a recluse, demon saturated, ex soldier full of excess baggage?
49 years later and still no closer to an answer. Just glad she chose me.


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

cdestroyer said:


> oh so yalls think men have a choice? better rethink that!!


Of course men have a choice.  
Do you think we are nothing more than driftwood , bobbing about in the stream and waiting for HER to make the 1st move ? 

Recall the days when you were single and you went to a dancing club/bar.  Did you just sit there and wait for a girl to approach YOU ? No, of course not. You looked about and when you spotted a girl that interested you, you asked HER to dance. 
Does that mean you were always successful ? No, of course not. Sometimes you got turned down. BUT, you took the initiative. Thus your choice was made known


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## Gary O' (Oct 3, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Still about 30 something years too young for me, of late...


Yeah, I was in my teen somethings at the time
Rather educational
And most chose* me*......lured me to their casa.....had their way with me
Exhausting


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## oldman (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yes, indeed. No question about it.
> However, most women do not make any serious moves on her choice of mate*. She may prefer guy X , Y, or Z but if he does not approach her, then she is left with only those men who are interested AND who try to get her.*


I have to respectfully disagree with the highlighted section of the post. I stand 6'4" and when I would walk through the airport dressed in uniform, especially in the evenings for whatever reason, over the years, I had several women approach me while in the airport. Keep in mind, I flew for 33 years, so I did see a lot of women in that timespan. 

My best and favorite lady was Estelle Bennett of the Ronettes. She walked up to me and asked me if the wings on my coat were real gold. One thing led to another and the next thing I knew we were having coffee at a donut shop in the terminal named The Donut Hole. She will never be forgotten. So lively, interesting and pretty, don't you think?  BTW, she has since become deceased.


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

oldman said:


> I have to respectfully disagree with the highlighted section of the post. I stand 6'4" and when I would walk through the airport dressed in uniform, especially in the evenings for whatever reason, over the years, I had several women approach me while in the airport. Keep in mind, I flew for 33 years, so I did see a lot of women in that timespan.
> 
> My best and favorite lady was Estelle Bennett of the Ronettes. She walked up to me and asked me if the wings on my coat were real gold. One thing led to another and the next thing I knew we were having coffee at a donut shop in the terminal named The Donut Hole. She will never be forgotten. So lively, interesting and pretty, don't you think?  BTW, she has since become deceased.
> 
> View attachment 187173


I still contend that such women are rare.  IMO the overwhelming percentage of women don't make the 1st move.


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## Alligatorob (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> women don't make the 1st move


I don't know, I have noticed a lot of women have made the first move with me... mostly away and often quickly!


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> I don't know, I have noticed a lot of women have made the first move with me... mostly away.


You are one lucky fellow.  
It has happened to me , but rarely.

I think it also has a lot to do with how desirable any particular man is to women. 
A guy who owns a house is more desirable than one who does not.
A guy who is rich, is more desirable that one who is not.
A guy who is very handsome is more desirable than one who is not.
The list is almost endless.

In any event, we have gotten waaay off track from the original post. Read post #1


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## Macfan (Oct 3, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> My wife chose me... still not certain why. Did she really want the DNA of a recluse, demon saturated, ex soldier full of excess baggage?
> 49 years later and still no closer to an answer. Just glad she chose me.


I could have posted that, almost word for word! Don...


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

May we , please, get back to the subject of original post #1 ?


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## Della (Oct 3, 2021)

Okay bossy-pants.

I've seen that test and I don't know that it works for everyone.  Gweneth Paltrow and a lot of young stars are pretty much straight up and down.  Back in the day I was 34-22-34 which fits the math, but the men always said it was my eyes that attracted them.  Hmmm

@oldman!  Wow!  I read a book by Ronnie Spector, those girls were so, super cool.

squatting dog said:


> My wife chose me... still not certain why. Did she really want the DNA of a recluse, demon saturated, ex soldier full of excess baggage?
> 49 years later and still no closer to an answer. Just glad she chose me.


Well you were healthy and fit and had proven yourself to be brave and protective.  Those are qualities females have looked for in men since we were cavewomen.


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

Della said:


> *I've seen that test and I don't know that it works for everyone*.  Gweneth Paltrow and a lot of young stars are pretty much straight up and down.  Back in the day I was 34-22-34 which fits the math, but the men always said it was my eyes that attracted them.  Hmmm


There are exceptions to everything.  For every man who likes/desires an extreme plus size woman, there are a hundred who go for the body type you were back in the day.


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## cdestroyer (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef: and I suppose every girl you asked for a dance said yes? If so you must have some magnetic personality cause as I recall many a time I asked for a dance and was turned down thusly the girls still had the option to choose!


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## Nathan (Oct 3, 2021)

oldman said:


> My best and favorite lady was Estelle Bennett of the Ronettes. She walked up to me and asked me if the wings on my coat were real gold. One thing led to another and the next thing I knew we were having coffee at a donut shop in the terminal named The Donut Hole. She will never be forgotten. So lively, interesting and pretty, don't you think?  BTW, she has since become deceased.
> 
> View attachment 187173


The Ronettes were one of my favorites of the '60s; all such beautiful ladies as well.


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## Packerjohn (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> A few months back, while waiting in the Dr's office, I read an interesting article on men's DNA and their choice of mate.
> The article was written by an anthropologist who had traveled the world and "tested" men from a wide range of cultures, from the big cities to small villages to jungle tribes.
> 
> The men were shown a series of female silhouettes: full body, but no hint of skin color, hair or eye color. Not even bust size, or anything except the actual body shape.
> ...


I notice she is wearing ridiculous high heels.  Looks like some magazine photos or Hollywood nonsense.  I was married twice but no wife of mine looked like this and I'm glad.  My wives had brains, talent and knew how to dress well.  That's what counts for a long term relationship.  Guess I was very lucky!


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

cdestroyer said:


> senior chef: and *I suppose every girl you asked for a dance said yes?* If so you must have some magnetic personality cause as I recall many a time I asked for a dance and was turned down thusly the girls still had the option to choose!


Oh dear. Yet another one who likes to cause trouble.

I never said or implied any such thing. I didn't keep track, but I had my share of turn downs.

Once again I ask that we please stay on the subject of this thread. see post #1


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> *I notice she is wearing ridiculous high heels.  Looks like some magazine photos or Hollywood nonsense.*  I was married twice but no wife of mine looked like this and I'm glad.  My wives had brains, talent and knew how to dress well.  That's what counts for a long term relationship.  Guess I was very lucky!


If you re-read my 1st post, you will clearly see that  said the silhouette was NOT exactly what the silhouettes in the "test" were like. If I could have found the perfect example, I would have used it.


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## Nathan (Oct 3, 2021)

oldman said:


> My best and favorite lady was Estelle Bennett of the Ronettes. She walked up to me and asked me if the wings on my coat were real gold. One thing led to another and the next thing I knew we were having coffee at a donut shop in the terminal named The Donut Hole. She will never be forgotten. So lively, interesting and pretty, don't you think?  BTW, she has since become deceased.


...an excerpt from Estelle Bennett's Wikipedia page:


> Personal life and death
> Bennett died of colon cancer, aged 67. Her body was discovered on February 11, 2009. A week after her death, it was revealed that she had suffered from schizophrenia in the years after the Ronettes' breakup and that she had subsequently been homeless in New York.   wikipedia.org


Just Sad.


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## Pepper (Oct 3, 2021)

I saw the Ronettes perform 2-3 times a year for about...........3-4 years.  Murray the K shows.  How my mother allowed me to leave home 4-5 am to get a front row seat, well, I don't know.  Started going at about 12.  Loved them, especially Ronni.


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I saw the Ronettes perform 2-3 times a year for about...........3-4 years.  Murray the K shows.  How my mother allowed me to leave home 4-5 am to get a front row seat, well, I don't know.  Started going at about 12.  Loved them, especially Ronni.


Why are you posting about singers ? What has that to do with this thread ?


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## fmdog44 (Oct 3, 2021)

"A Good Hue" 
-Seinfeld


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## Pepper (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Why are you posting about singers ? What has that to do with this thread ?


I digressed.  I didn't start mooning over the Ronettes.  Why don't you ask the guys, too?


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## AnnieA (Oct 3, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Here's the deal:  gay men are "safe", meaning no pressure sexually.
> 
> Some women like the challenge of bedding a gay man, "converting" him to hetero, which would be a big feather in her bonnet.
> 
> ...



My best guy friend of over 25  years is bisexual but much more into guys.  He had occasional flings with women and was at the the time we became friends.  I was pretty sure he was gay,, though, so just came right out and asked him so that he wouldn't thing I was pursuing him romantically ...explained that's why I asked such a personal question.  I had just moved into town, we worked together and had great conversations at lunch with a lot of laughs.  Just didn't see another way to take the friendship further than work other than asking.  He laughed at my convoluted explanation for the question and and his reply was "let's go to dinner tonight."  Since then we've vacationed together, still talk for hours on the phone and I love spending time with him and his partner.  The only downside to our friendship has been a couple of my jealous boyfriends ...they didn't last long.


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## AnnieA (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> A few months back, while waiting in the Dr's office, I read an interesting article on men's DNA and their choice of mate.
> The article was written by an anthropologist who had traveled the world and "tested" men from a wide range of cultures, from the big cities to small villages to jungle tribes.
> 
> The men were shown a series of female silhouettes: full body, but no hint of skin color, hair or eye color. Not even bust size, or anything except the actual body shape.
> ...



A good waist to hip ratio is a great indicator of health overall.


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> A good waist to hip ratio is a great indicator of health overall.


Thank you, Annie. I am pleased to see that you are staying with the subject of this thread, especially as so many have gone WILDLY off topic.


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## Warrigal (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Why are you posting about singers ? What has that to do with this thread ?


Starting a thread does not make anyone the owner of the thread. 
Once started, threads have a life of their own and go where they will.


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## Butterfly (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I still contend that such women are rare.  IMO the overwhelming percentage of women don't make the 1st move.


Well, if she plays the first move right, you might not recognize it as the first move.


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Well, if she plays the first move right, you might not recognize it as the first move.


Ha Ha Ha  yep, that's always possible. However, if a man doesn't recognize it, what good does it do ?


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## Devi (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Ha Ha Ha  yep, that's always possible. However, if a man doesn't recognize it, what good does it do ?


Well, it _could_ work, after all. Not necessary for the man to recognize it.


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## Warrigal (Oct 3, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Well, if she plays the first move right, you might not recognize it as the first move.


Exactly, Butterfly.
He has no idea of the wiles of women and of their power to exercise control.

He also does not understand that we can be very picky about when and how to use our powers. My super power is the Stop Right There death stare which has helped me to deselect unwanted advances.


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

Devi said:


> Well, it _could_ work, after all. Not necessary for the man to recognize it.


Now you have my curiosity going. Could you please give an example ?


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## Devi (Oct 3, 2021)

Well, I dunno — it's been decades since I was single.

But, perhaps, a kind of attracting without being obvious in any way. Being _inviting _without being obvious.

I think this happens all the time. You don't have to march up to a man and bonk him over the head to get his attention, right?


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## Warrigal (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Now you have my curiosity going. Could you please give an example ?


Sorry, secret women's business is not given to male members of the tribe. You have your own secret men's business that is kept from us. That's only fair.


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## Warrigal (Oct 3, 2021)

Devi said:


> Well, I dunno — it's been decades since I was single.
> 
> But, perhaps, a kind of attracting without being obvious in any way. Being _inviting _without being obvious.
> 
> I think this happens all the time. You don't have to march up to a man and bonk him over the head to get his attention, right?


You do if you want him to clean the bathroom and ensuite.
I find hints and being inviting is useless so gentlemen, if you want to win over the modern woman, instead of beating your chests and wrestling other suitors to the ground why not try chivalry and a willingness to share cleaning duties?


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## carouselsilver (Oct 3, 2021)

senior chef said:


> You are one lucky fellow.
> It has happened to me , but rarely.
> 
> I think it also has a lot to do with how desirable any particular man is to women.
> ...


Not all woman are attracted to men who have their own homes, or are rich. The man I married didn't have a great job when I met him, and he was renting. I found him attractive, but what attracted me more than anything he had or didn't have, was that we were mutually attracted enough to marry. He has since gotten much better off financially and we own a house together.


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## senior chef (Oct 3, 2021)

carouselsilver said:


> Not all woman are attracted to men who have their own homes, or are rich. The man I married didn't have a great job when I met him, and he was renting. I found him attractive, but what attracted me more than anything he had or didn't have, was that we were mutually attracted enough to marry. He has since gotten much better off financially and we own a house together.


I don't recall saying that ALL women are attracted to men with homes or are wealthy.  Nor do I believe that. However, plenty of women are attracted to those things.

I remember a female friend of mine who had was interested in a particular guy. They had a date or two and the very first thing she did was to drive by his house to check it out. 

There can be absolutely no question that if a man has wealth, he suddenly becomes attractive to a wide variety of stunningly beautiful women. Perhaps the most famous situation is of Hugh Hefner.  In fact, he was so attractive to young beautiful women that he had 3, yes, repeat 3, girlfriends living with him at the SAME TIME.
At age 90, Hugh Hefner with his 3 live-in girlfriends.


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## Warrigal (Oct 3, 2021)

If you have enough money you can buy anything but not necessarily everyone.


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## Della (Oct 4, 2021)

Hugh Hefner's women weren't attracted to him because of his wealth or even attracted to him at all.  They were paid prostitutes.  There will always be a certain type of "stunningly beautiful" (surgically implanted and hairdresser bleached) women who will pretend to love any man, however, dumb, ugly or poor, if he has the price they're asking.


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## Shero (Oct 4, 2021)

Della said:


> Hugh Hefner's women weren't attracted to him because of his wealth or even attracted to him at all.  They were paid prostitutes.  There will always be a certain type of "stunningly beautiful" (surgically implanted and hairdresser bleached) women who will pretend to love any man, however, dumb, ugly or poor, if he has the price they're asking.


Exactly!!!


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## Shero (Oct 4, 2021)

oldman said:


> I have to respectfully disagree with the highlighted section of the post. I stand 6'4" and when I would walk through the airport dressed in uniform, especially in the evenings for whatever reason, over the years, I had several women approach me while in the airport. Keep in mind, I flew for 33 years, so I did see a lot of women in that timespan.
> 
> My best and favorite lady was Estelle Bennett of the Ronettes. She walked up to me and asked me if the wings on my coat were real gold. One thing led to another and the next thing I knew we were having coffee at a donut shop in the terminal named The Donut Hole. She will never be forgotten. So lively, interesting and pretty, don't you think?  BTW, she has since become deceased.
> 
> View attachment 187173



You must have looked très beau in your uniform oldman!!


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## Buckeye (Oct 4, 2021)

Della said:


> Hugh Hefner's women weren't attracted to him because of his wealth or even attracted to him at all.  They were paid prostitutes. * There will always be a certain type of "stunningly beautiful" (surgically implanted and hairdresser bleached) women who will pretend to love any man,* however, dumb, ugly or poor, if he has the price they're asking.


And yet you say that like it's a bad thing....


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## Della (Oct 4, 2021)

LOL I'm hairdresser bleached myself. At about age 50 I went from petite brunette to,  voluptuous blonde almost overnight.   I'm just trying to cast a little shade on Senior Chef's definition of stunningly beautiful


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## cdestroyer (Oct 4, 2021)

I worked in a state office which had mixed workers, (male and female) mostly typists. some really nice women. But I had a lot of turn downs in past years, women dont date co workers, have a boy friend, etc., so I never asked any of the gals for a date...One had an eye on me that I never knew, she never spoke to me, never said hi, or made any advance. After she was married and we were having a conversation I mentioned that I would like to try marriage she said well heck I was sitting right there all the time, (this to mean she was available and willing, but since she never spoke how was I to know). I have worked in many offices as a typist (because I type at 80wpm) offices full of wimmin, single, married or in a relation and I dont dare ask or I will be reported for harrasement. (and oh yes I have been reported and told to keep to myself)


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## senior chef (Oct 4, 2021)

Della said:


> Hugh Hefner's women weren't attracted to him because of his wealth or even attracted to him at all.  They were paid prostitutes.  There will always be a certain type of "stunningly beautiful" (surgically implanted and hairdresser bleached) women who will pretend to love any man, however, dumb, ugly or poor, if he has the price they're asking.


Tisk. Tisk Tisk.  Sounds like jealousy to me.

This reminds me of something Hugh Hefner once said in reply to a question about why so many young beautiful women were attracted to him.  He said, "When a woman wants to climb into my bed, I don't spend much time wondering why."


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## oldman (Oct 4, 2021)

Shero said:


> You must have looked très beau in your uniform oldman!!


I may have overstated my post a bit. What I was trying to say was that men and women in a classy uniform looks very professional and to some degree, it makes the person wearing it look a bit more classy. Personally, I never liked wearing the United coat through the airport. I prefer wearing a flight jacket, which is taboo at United.


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## Shero (Oct 5, 2021)

Monsieur Heffner must be groaning in his grave at this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out...s-playboys-first-gay-male-cover-star-rcna2562


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## Gary O' (Oct 5, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Sorry, secret women's business is not given to male members of the tribe. You have your own secret men's business that is kept from us. That's only fair.


Lotsa these comments reminds me of something I put together some years ago

*Wimin

The most mysterious beings of our planet*

I found out long ago, about sixty years or so, that gaining favor with the finer gender of our specie is not necessarily in my best interest.
Whole different frequency
Wired different
Fiber optic vs 9 gauge single conductor
Fascinating, mystical, attractive, you bet
Sensitivities I’d never remotely considered
But, hanging with a group of ladies?

Can’t

Mentally; exhausting

Socially; this ogre doesn’t stand a chance

Spiritually; beyond any reach I may have thought I had

Physically; like looking into the sun, can go blind if obsessing too long

Gaining favor?
Whimsical touches
Nothing of depth
Any more than that and I find myself precariously dangling off a mental precipice

I can do one, maybe two per sitting
and that is mostly because they sense my discomfort to the point of putting forth effort to discuss what* I’m *interested in
I’ve learned to pick up on this and placate for a bit, then find a way to excuse myself

I don’t avoid ladies, but have learned not to seek them out
It’s what shops are for

I’ve been fortunate

My lady has put up with me for half a century

When I become too much and I (for some unknown reason) anger her,
I found placing my calloused hand on the small of her back will still cause her to flinch
….and she begrudgingly forgives me

We have had this tryst, this romance that has yet to fade

She’s plenty for me

Forever


So, here I remain
Baffled, yet attracted at the mysteries, complexities
A sentry
A defender
A protector
A willing grunt

Keeping the fire

best I can


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

Della said:


> LOL I'm hairdresser bleached myself. At about age 50 I went from petite brunette to,  voluptuous blonde almost overnight.   I'm just trying to cast a little shade on Senior Chef's definition of stunningly beautiful


In answer to your sneering remark, one of the things that I find stunningly beautiful is femininity. Even ultra feminine.

When a woman tries to "out-man" any man, that is the polar opposite of femininity and extremely unattractive.

Now, personally, I'm not particularly attracted to buxom blondes, but I do recognize that most men do find them attractive.

That being said, I'm reminded of what Sean Connery once said on The Tonight Show when asked if he like bleached blondes. Connery's reply ? "As long as the collars and cuffs match:.


----------



## Paco Dennis (Oct 5, 2021)

seduction is a two way street. unless it is rape...male or female or ?


----------



## squatting dog (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> When a woman tries to "out-man" any man, that is the polar opposite of femininity and extremely unattractive.


Gotta respectfully disagree with you on this point. My wife can be as sexy as the next, but, she really shines when you put her behind the wheel. Best of both worlds. JMHO.  
Best time's was when track had to scramble  to find a "Trophy King" rather than a queen.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Gotta respectfully disagree with you on this point. My wife can be as sexy as the next, but, she really shines when you put her behind the wheel. Best of both worlds. JMHO.
> Best time's was when track had to scramble  to find a "Trophy King" rather than a queen.
> 
> View attachment 187542View attachment 187543View attachment 187544 View attachment 187545


Each to their own.  Personally, I don't find that at all attractive OR feminine.


----------



## squatting dog (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Each to their own.  Personally, I don't find that at all attractive OR feminine.


Oh yeah... and she can cook... thanks to her Italian Grandma.


----------



## Alligatorob (Oct 5, 2021)

Della said:


> Hugh Hefner's women weren't attracted to him because of his wealth or even attracted to him at all. They were paid prostitutes.


You've burst my bubble, was getting excited about being 90...


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> You've burst my bubble, was getting excited about being 90...


Not to worry.  No matter what @Della  says, Hugh Hefner's girls were not prostitutes.  The girls come from all over the world and they actively seek out some way of meeting Hugh Hefner. (at least they did before he passed on a few years ago.) The competition for Playmate of the Month is fierce.

As an aside: I recently watch a 1 hour Tv show about Hugh Hefner's life.  He had the same secretary for at least the last 40 years that I know of.  She said, (regarding the Hefner Mansion)"The girls run this house. If anyone gets out of line with any one of them. She can report it, and that guy will be banned for life from ever attending any of Mr. Hefner's events." She went on to say that there is a DNA list. (do not admit). The security at the Hefner Mansion was one of the most strict in the world. Nobody got passed the main gate without being vetted by security.


----------



## Sassycakes (Oct 5, 2021)

*I don't think women are attracted to just men with money or handsome. What always attracted me to a man was his personality. I can't answer what attracts a man to a woman though.*


----------



## Alligatorob (Oct 5, 2021)

Sassycakes said:


> What always attracted me to a man was his personality. I can't answer what attracts a man to a woman though.


It is pretty much the same for many men, I know it is for me.  

However until you get to know someone and their personality it is other physical traits that attract.  And that can result in how you choose the people you get to know well enough to decide if they have an attractive personality.  So on TV or in pictures where we don't really get to know personalities its pretty much the physical appearance that attracts, or doesn't.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> It is pretty much the same for many men, I know it is for me.
> 
> However until you get to know someone and their personality it is other physical traits that attract.  And that can result in how you choose the people you get to know well enough to decide if they have an attractive personality.  So on TV or in pictures where we don't really get to know personalities its pretty much the physical appearance that attracts, or doesn't.


Spot on , Alligatorob.  That is precisely why so very many women go to so much trouble to look as beautiful/sexy as possible. There is a reason why they call them "Beauty Salons". Not to mention the clothing women wear ie; the plunging neckline, slit skirts, and skin tight pants, that look as if she had been melted and poured into them.


----------



## Della (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Not to worry.  No matter what @Della  says, Hugh Hefner's girls were not prostitutes.  The girls come from all over the world and they actively seek out some way of meeting Hugh Hefner. (at least they did before he passed on a few years ago.) The competition for Playmate of the Month is fierce.
> 
> As an aside: I recently watch a 1 hour Tv show about Hugh Hefner's life.  He had the same secretary for at least the last 40 years that I know of.  She said, (regarding the Hefner Mansion)"The girls run this house. If anyone gets out of line with any one of them. She can report it, and that guy will be banned for life from ever attending any of Mr. Hefner's events." She went on to say that there is a DNA list. (do not admit). The security at the Hefner Mansion was one of the most strict in the world. Nobody got passed the main gate without being vetted by security.


I read my first biography about Hefner way back in the seventies.  He had a smart idea to bring the porn magazines from the back of the rack toward the front with " the girl next door look" of his early magazines.  They were geared toward younger men and the tone of the magazine was made to encourage the buyer to think of himself, not as a furtive loser who could only look, but as a sophisticated martini drinker who lived in a penthouse and dated beautiful women -- whether he was actually a pimply face kid or not.  Hefner worked hard, got lucky building his business just as the ****** revolution was taking place, and made a fortune.

 He was still a pornographer and pimp and the women who worked for him were still prostitutes.  Yes they come from all over the world and yes they compete to be selected for the magazine. It's  about as high as a you can go in that world.  But if you're living in the mansion for free in exchange for attending the weekly orgies and performing for Hefner and his celebrity friends.  You're really no different than the women who work the truck stops.  Just probably prettier.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

Della said:


> I read my first biography about Hefner way back in the seventies.  He had a smart idea to bring the porn magazines from the back of the rack toward the front with " the girl next door look" of his early magazines.  They were geared toward younger men and the tone of the magazine was made to encourage the buyer to think of himself, not as a furtive loser who could only look, but as a sophisticated martini drinker who lived in a penthouse and dated beautiful women -- whether he was actually a pimply face kid or not.  Hefner worked hard, got lucky building his business just as the ****** revolution was taking place, and made a fortune.
> 
> He was still a pornographer and pimp and the women who worked for him were still prostitutes.  Yes they come from all over the world and yes they compete to be selected for the magazine. It's  about as high as a you can go in that world.  But if you're living in the mansion for free in exchange for attending the weekly orgies and performing for Hefner and his celebrity friends.  You're really no different than the women who work the truck stops.  Just probably prettier.


Della, you haven't the faintest idea of what you are talking about.  My advice ? Calm down !


----------



## Della (Oct 5, 2021)

I couldn't be calmer, Senior Chef.  You're the one who sounds like you've just been told there's no Santa Claus.  Read "Down the Rabbit Hole" and get another angle on that flattering documentary your watched.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

Della said:


> I couldn't be calmer, Senior Chef.  You're the one who sounds like you've just been told there's no Santa Claus.  Read "Down the Rabbit Hole" and get another angle on that flattering documentary your watched.


Think what you wish. It does not matter on tiny bit to me.
BUT, if you think you are going to change men in the slightest degree, you are the delusional one.


----------



## Della (Oct 5, 2021)

Change men?  What did I say that sounded like I wanted to change men?  

I just have a thing for preference for calling things by their proper name.  Men like Hugh Hefner ( not men in general but pimps who use young women for profit) recruit 18 year old girls with a lot of fast talk and offers of fame and money and when the girls age out of the business at about 25 years of age they are often left drug addicted and with a future marred by the pictorial evidence of their past.  

They may make it to college but they always have to worry if they're going to get that job or not, if someone recognizes them from the magazine.  If they marry and settle down they have to worry that their kids might be sitting in junior high class when some boy starts passing a center fold of their mother around. 

 A huge proportion of these young women already have a sad background of abuse, many are runaways and their self-esteem is at rock bottom when the Hefner types come along.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

@Della , spew forth your venom if you must, but there can be no denying that Hefner was on the right side of history.
Using the Playboy editorials as a sounding board, Hugh Hefner was a powerful advocate of women's reproductive rights, gay rights, free speech and the rights of blacks.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 5, 2021)

Chef, you are unwise to dismiss Della's contribution to this thread just because it doesn't fit with your point of view. Hugh Hefner and Jeffery Epstein were two of a kind. I suggest that everything in the garden of delights that they created looks lovely until someone turns over a few rocks and a lot of nasties crawl out.


----------



## mellowyellow (Oct 5, 2021)

I think looks are the most important thing and personality comes a poor second IMO. Women swoon on “hunky” men and men swoon over beautiful women. It’s just the way it is.


----------



## Shero (Oct 5, 2021)

.
The big trouble when some men idolise the things Hugh Hefner stands for in respect of women, is they have a very sad outlook on life. They have no idea of what a woman of character looks like, and therefore they cannot relate to decent women. 

Unfortunately when that happens, they invade other countries and take the advantage of young girls living in poverty and ruin them for life.
.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Chef, you are unwise to dismiss Della's contribution to this thread just because it doesn't fit with your point of view. Hugh Hefner and Jeffery Epstein were two of a kind. I suggest that everything in the garden of delights that they created looks lovely until someone turns over a few rocks and a lot of nasties crawl out.


Hefner seems to be his hero, perhaps dreams of being like him when he grows up.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2021)

Shero said:


> .
> The big trouble when some men idolise the things Hugh Hefner stands for in respect of women, is they have a very sad outlook on life. They have no idea of what a woman of character looks like, and therefore they cannot relate to decent women.
> 
> Unfortunately when that happens, they invade other countries and take the advantage of young girls living in poverty and ruin them for life.
> .


Well said.


----------



## Nathan (Oct 5, 2021)

Sassycakes said:


> I don't think women are attracted to just men with money or handsome. What always attracted me to a man was his personality. I can't answer what attracts a man to a woman though.



Personality.   More to the point:  a woman's smile.  A genuine smile says everything you need to know about a person.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Hefner seems to be his hero, perhaps dreams of being like him when he grows up.


If he is to be honest, is there any man on the planet who would pass up an opportunity to bed a thousand of the worlds most beautiful women ?

Even the Muslims believe that if he dies for Allah, he will get 72 virgins in the next life.

*"It's in men's DNA"*


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> If he is to be honest, is there any man on the planet who would pass up an opportunity to bed a thousand of the worlds most beautiful women ?
> 
> Even the Muslims believe that if he dies for Allah, he will get 72 virgins in the next life.
> 
> *"It's in men's DNA"*


A real man with a fulfilling life and loving relationship with a woman who has intelligence, class and inner and outer beauty would not even consider bedding down with those women. My husband would pass up that "opportunity", he's not so desperate and frustrated as some. Beauty is not only on the outside, what is inside is most appreciated and valued by _real _men.  Figures you'd throw one of your racist nuggets in your reply, sorry, I don't stoop so low.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> A real man with a fulfilling life and loving relationship with a woman who has intelligence, class and inner and outer beauty would not even consider bedding down with those women. My husband would pass up that "opportunity", he's not so desperate and frustrated as some. Beauty is not only on the outside, what is inside is most appreciated and valued by _real _men.  Figures you'd throw one of your racist nuggets in your reply, sorry, I don't stoop so low.


Yes, by all means, let's hear a woman tell us what goes on in the minds of men . Ha ha ha
Jeez, talk about arrogance .


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yes, by all means, let's hear a woman tell us what goes on in the minds of men . Ha ha ha


You telling everyone what goes on in the minds of men is even more funny......reminder, we're talking about _real _men here, not frustrated dreaming men who idolize people like Hefner. No disrespect to him, just to the wannabes.


----------



## Shero (Oct 5, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> A real man with a fulfilling life and loving relationship with a woman who has intelligence, class and inner and outer beauty would not even consider bedding down with those women. My husband would pass up that "opportunity", he's not so desperate and frustrated as some. Beauty is not only on the outside, what is inside is most appreciated and valued by _real _men.  Figures you'd throw one of your racist nuggets in your reply, sorry, I don't stoop so low.



So would mon mari !!!  le cook is eager to show us all his inadequacies!
.


----------



## Shero (Oct 5, 2021)

A real man’s weapon is in his mind. 

If a man’s mind is in the gouttière that is where it will always stay.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2021)

Shero said:


> So would mon mari !!!  le cook is eager to show us all his inadequacies!
> .


I don't assume anything.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> You telling everyone what goes on in the minds of men is even more funny......reminder, we're talking about _real _men here, not frustrated dreaming men who idolize people like Hefner. No disrespect to him, just to the wannabes.


It is far, far more likely that a man understands other men much better than any woman ever could.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 5, 2021)

How many men have you lived with intimately in your life?
I will allow your to count your father and brothers.

Perhaps you were in the military which could explain your view of women?


----------



## Shero (Oct 5, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> How many men have you lived with intimately in your life?
> I will allow your to count your father and brothers.
> 
> Perhaps you were in the military which could explain your view of women?


That is a loaded question


----------



## grahamg (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> A few months back, while waiting in the Dr's office, I read an interesting article on men's DNA and their choice of mate.
> The article was written by an anthropologist who had traveled the world and "tested" men from a wide range of cultures, from the big cities to small villages to jungle tribes.
> 
> The men were shown a series of female silhouettes: full body, but no hint of skin color, hair or eye color. Not even bust size, or anything except the actual body shape.
> ...


I'm utterly convinced, great post and thread topic!


----------



## grahamg (Oct 5, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Well, I'm a booty guy, sooooo
> 
> View attachment 187087


"Leg man" myself, (one once told by a short term girlfriend I had a nice booty, though I felt far from flattered by the comment, more "only wanted for my body"!).


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

grahamg said:


> I'm utterly convinced, great post and thread topic!


Thank you, @grahamg  ,
Though older women may hate it, men are "hard-wired" to select the young and healthy females. Women, the world over, know this very well. Which is why they go to so much trouble and expense to look as young as possible. It is also why so many women lie about their age.
I suppose it's possible that somewhere back in the dim mists of time, there may have been a few men who most desired elderly women, BUT those men left no offspring behind.


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Though older women may hate it, men are "hard-wired" to select the young and healthy females. Women, the world over, know this very well. Which is why they go to so much trouble and expense to look as young as possible.


Don't know about that
Been attracted to older wimin as far back as I can remember
Never was into the plastic babes in Playboy
Always attracted to real....even a bit of cellulite


----------



## jujube (Oct 5, 2021)

I just looked up "misogynist" in the dictionary. Guess whose picture was there?


----------



## jujube (Oct 5, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Don't know about that
> Been attracted to older wimin as far back as I can remember
> Never was into the plastic babes in Playboy
> Always attracted to real....even a bit of cellulite


Gary, you're a great guy.  Give my congratulations to your wife.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> It is far, far more likely that a man understands other men much better than any woman ever could.


If other men were like that man.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Don't know about that
> Been attracted to older wimin as far back as I can remember
> Never was into the plastic babes in Playboy
> Always attracted to real....even a bit of cellulite


Yeah, that's what makes the world go 'round. Each to their own.

I was rarely overwhelmed by the Playmate of the month. A few exceptions, mind you. Hef was drawn toward the busty blondes. I, on the other hand, was always more excited by petite, trim brunettes.


----------



## Lawrence00 (Oct 5, 2021)

So back to post #1. That silhouette would be an attractive choice. Beyond simple pheromones, I would wish for someone athletic, to protect the children always.


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 5, 2021)

jujube said:


> Gary, you're a great guy.



I'll let her know



jujube said:


> jujube said:
> 
> 
> > Give my congratulations to your wife.


We often tend to congratulate each other on taste in mate selection 
But, I'll tell her


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> If other men were like that man.


The overwhelming percentage are.  THAT is precisely why Hugh Hefner made his millions. He had men figured out. He invented the idea of "the girl next door". 

Side note:
 I've traveled the world and lived a man's life. I've lived in S.E. Asia for 7 years, and I've been able to watch men at play in the bars of S.E. Asia. 
Men arrive in droves from every country imaginable. Though the vast majority come from: Australia, the U.K., Canada, South Korea and the USA., with a smattering of men from the Arab nations.


----------



## Shero (Oct 5, 2021)

Men who actively seek much younger girls and refuse to date women their own age aren’t looking for an equal. They are looking for someone with less maturity, opinions, and agency than grown women. Someone to control, manipulate and possibly take advantage of. This is predatory behavior

A man who believes that a woman his own age is too old to love isn’t a man. He is certainly not man enough to satisfy a mature woman, so he captures a young woman with money and gifts, but she will always leave him in the end!!!!  He is a man-child who never grew up and is still reading the comic books.


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I've lived in S.E. Asia for 7 years, and I've been able to watch men at play in the bars of S.E. Asia.


Yeah, in the months I spent in Guangzhou, the bars were pretty busy.
But....not the highest caliber of clientele.
Almost got thrown in the gulag after hanging with a couple Afrikaans rowdies


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2021)

Shero said:


> Men who actively seek much younger girls and refuse to date women their own age aren’t looking for an equal. They are looking for someone with less maturity, opinions, and agency than grown women. Someone to control, manipulate and possibly take advantage of. This is predatory behavior
> 
> A man who believes that a woman his own age is too old to love isn’t a man. He is certainly not man enough to satisfy a mature woman, so he captures a young woman with money and gifts, but she will always leave him in the end!!!!  He is a man-child who never grew up and is still reading the comic books.


Well said, true.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Yeah, in the months I spent in Guangzhou, the bars were pretty busy.
> But....not the highest caliber of clientele.
> Almost got thrown in the gulag after hanging with a couple Afrikaans rowdies


Take my word for it, the "upper-crust" have their own clubs. Incredibly expensive. If memory serves me, I think I paid $140 USD to buy 1 round of drinks, and a platter of canapes, for 2 friends and myself.


----------



## Gary O' (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I think I paid $140 USD to buy 1 round of drinks, and a platter of canapes, for 2 friends and myself.


That may be why I didn't frequent those places

On a side note, I went to a variety show at the top of the hotel
Quite like a neo Ed Sullivan show
Half way thru the show, the MC introed me.....spotlight and everything
I was prodded to stand up
Handed a mic 
I thought I said '*thank you'* in Mandarin
The crowd busted out in laughter
Later, my broker told me I said something like *'I have to pee'*

Great show, though
Those kids could dance!


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> The overwhelming percentage are.  THAT is precisely why Hugh Hefner made his millions. He had men figured out. He invented the idea of "the girl next door".
> 
> Side note:
> I've traveled the world and lived a man's life. I've lived in S.E. Asia for 7 years, and I've been able to watch men at play in the bars of S.E. Asia.
> Men arrive in droves from every country imaginable. Though the vast majority come from: Australia, the U.K., Canada, South Korea and the USA., with a smattering of men from the Arab nations.


Yeah, a lot of men (but certainly not all) are dogs and don't have the confidence, character or manhood to form quality relationships with women who are not playing in bars and lead by a few dollars thrown at them.  I don't care where you traveled, doesn't make your opinion any more valid than the next person.  You appear to be a legend in your own mind, but that can get lonely after awhile.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> seduction is a two way street. unless it is rape...male or female or ?


Be very careful. the "R" would is strictly taboo here on SF.
PS: "R" is not seduction. It is NOT even primarily about sex. It is about power and anger.


----------



## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> *Yeah, a lot of men (but certainly not all) are dogs *and don't have the confidence, character or manhood to form quality relationships with women who are not playing in bars and lead by a few dollars thrown at them.  I don't care where you traveled, doesn't make your opinion any more valid than the next person.  You appear to be a legend in your own mind, but that can get lonely after awhile.


A lot of men are dogs ? Hmm. Interesting. A lot of women are also dogs. Now , let me see if I recall the name of female dogs. More than a few female dogs have revealed themselves on this thread. The truth seems to enrage them.


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> The overwhelming percentage are.  THAT is precisely why Hugh Hefner made his millions. He had men figured out. He invented the idea of "the girl next door".
> 
> Side note:
> I've travelled the world and lived a man's life. I've lived in S.E. Asia for 7 years, and I've been able to watch men at play in the bars of S.E. Asia.
> Men arrive in droves from every country imaginable. Though the vast majority come from: Australia, the U.K., Canada, South Korea and the USA., with a smattering of men from the Arab nations.


Looking for brides?


----------



## Warrigal (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Take my word for it, the "upper-crust" have their own clubs. Incredibly expensive. If memory serves me, I think I paid $140 USD to buy 1 round of drinks, and a platter of canapes, for 2 friends and myself.


How much for the female company?


----------



## grahamg (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Thank you, @grahamg  ,
> Though older women may hate it, men are "hard-wired" to select the young and healthy females. Women, the world over, know this very well. Which is why they go to so much trouble and expense to look as young as possible. It is also why so many women lie about their age.
> I suppose it's possible that somewhere back in the dim mists of time, there may have been a few men who most desired elderly women, BUT those men left no offspring behind.


Just occasionally a post comes along on this forum that makes me laugh my socks off, this is one, well done, (another forum member in particular does this sometimes who probably knows its them I'm referring to, so I won't mention any names here!).

I must admit to you something about myself here, guilty as I probably am of just the traits you've mentioned, I do now tell myself, when I see an attractive woman, that it is probably her mother who might wish to take a romantic interest in me, and if her mother is around, I take a look to see what I think my reaction might be if she took an interest, (if you see what I mean in that convoluted argument?).


----------



## Alligatorob (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> men are "hard-wired" to select the young and healthy females. Women, the world over, know this very well. Which is why they go to so much trouble and expense to look as young as possible. It is also why so many women lie about their age.
> I suppose it's possible that somewhere back in the dim mists of time, there may have been a few men who most desired elderly women, BUT those men left no offspring behind.


Charles Darwin couldn't have said it better himself.

Though as I age I find am more and more attracted to older women.  Not that I could have much impact on the evolution of our species at this point.


----------



## Shero (Oct 5, 2021)

le cook is already "lonely" even the little puppy, the one that pees all over the flat,    wants to leave home.


----------



## Shero (Oct 5, 2021)




----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2021)

senior chef said:


> A lot of men are dogs ? Hmm. Interesting. A lot of women are also dogs. Now , let me see if I recall the name of female dogs. More than a few female dogs have revealed themselves on this thread. The truth seems to enrage them.





senior chef said:


> Della,* you haven't the faintest idea of what you are talking about. My advice ? Calm down !*


I'll give you the same advice you tried to give to Della before. ^^^^^^   Seems like you're a bit enraged yourself and revealing your dark side here.


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## Warrigal (Oct 5, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Charles Darwin couldn't have said it better himself.
> 
> Though as I age I find am more and more attracted to older women.  Not that I could have much impact on the evolution of our species at this point.


Sorry Rob, but I have to disagree. Both sexes are attracted to healthy looking mates as a rule but there are other qualities that over ride athletic good looks.

As for women's obsession with youthful beauty, I blame the beauty industry, in particular the American beauty industry aided and abetted by Hollywood.

As a teen I lathered my face with foundation, powder, rouge, eye liner, eye shadow, mascara, eyebrow pencil and lipstick. I wore stepins to hold up my stockings and to control my non existent pot belly. Slept with plastic rollers in my hair which I tortured with back combing and tons of hair lacquer. Why? Because I was constantly being conditioned to think of my self as ugly without them.

Then I grew up and wised up. I only applied the "war paint" if I felt like it but my cousin married a woman who would do nothing at all before she was fully made up, not even feed her suckling baby.  

Finally I realised that going to those extremes fools no-one. If I am going to a function where I will be photographed for posterity I will apply some makeup because my complexion is pale and I don't want to look like I am featureless. Otherwise? Meh?

I actually think I look better sans makeup. I'm more interested in not frightening little children than I am in what random males may think of me. It's been that way for a long time now.


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## senior chef (Oct 5, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Charles Darwin couldn't have said it better himself.
> 
> Though as I age I find am more and more attracted to older women.  Not that I could have much impact on the evolution of our species at this point.


Thank you, Rob.
Quite frankly I did not expect much of an interest in such a plainly obvious truth.

I did not take into account that there were feminists who would become so outraged at simple common sense. 

This thread has now deteriorated into desultory finger pointing.

I now with-draw from this thread.


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## grahamg (Oct 5, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Sorry Rob, but I have to disagree. Both sexes are attracted to healthy looking mates as a rule but there are other qualities that over ride athletic good looks.
> 
> As for women's obsession with youthful beauty, I blame the beauty industry, in particular the American beauty industry aided and abetted by Hollywood.
> 
> ...


Are you arguing with Charles Darwin or Rob's views and recollection of Darwins views on the subject?

Oh dash, you've withdrawn from the thread, ("my bad", as they say, not reading to the end of a post!).


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## Warrigal (Oct 6, 2021)

Not Darwin because his proposition was that natural selection was all about adaptation to changes in the environment. Take the example of the speckled moths that were common before the industrial revolution. Against the bark of trees they were well camouflaged from the birds that like to feast on them. However, there was a genetic variation that resulted in black moths of the same species. They stood out against the light coloured bark and were easily picked off. Once soot from the factories began to cover every surface, it was the speckled moths that were easily seen by the birds and the black variety became the dominant variation.

The popular male idea of female beauty beauty has varied enormously over the centuries and across the globe. When Hubby and I visited a village in New Guinea we were entertained by a performance that explained to us the courtship/marriage customs of this tribe.

The would be husband had to pay a bride price for a woman from another village. The father of the bride decided the price in terms of the number of pigs, kauri shells and weapons. There was naturally a good deal of haggling over the price. If the woman had already had a child the price was higher because of her proven fertility. If she had saggy breasts the price was lower because that meant that she was older and would bear less sons for her husband's village. She was a commodity, a brood mare and a work horse. Her looks were not top priority. They came a long way behind good health, fertility and stamina for hard work.

It was much the same in a village in Vanuatu. The tribes were always at war but suspended hostilities when it came time to find brides. If two men were vying for the same girl they had to fight for her, to the death. She would be taken to her husband's island to bear warrior sons but if her husband died the village chief would come to her hut and strangle her with the rope that she herself had been forced to fashion herself as part of the wedding ritual.

If these sort of practices were hard wired into our DNA they would not have disappeared so quickly after colonisation.


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## Alligatorob (Oct 6, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> visited a village in New Guinea


Great story, it must have been a fascinating visit.  Are you familiar with Jered Diamond's work?  He did a lot of it amongst the New Guinea natives.


Warrigal said:


> Sorry Rob, but I have to disagree. Both sexes are attracted to healthy looking mates as a rule but there are other qualities that over ride athletic good looks.


I agree that both sexes are attracted to healthy.  And both are attracted to people who look like they could bear children.  For women that is younger, men can bear children at an older age.  And women are attracted to men who can best provide for her children, wealth can be a part of that.  So I don't think the attractions are identical.


Warrigal said:


> As for women's obsession with youthful beauty, I blame the beauty industry, in particular the American beauty industry aided and abetted by Hollywood.





Warrigal said:


> The popular male idea of female beauty beauty has varied enormously over the centuries and across the globe


I agree with both points.  Historically beauty in women was mostly based on the healthy potentially child capable things.  Hip to waist ratio is one of those, but much of Hollywood beauty is not.  An example is weight and fat, in many cultures heavy women were highly valued, still are by some, but not in Hollywood.  A shame I think.  Women with a few extra pounds look just fine to me...


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## grahamg (Oct 6, 2021)

The idea anything as complicated as the partner any of us might be attracted to is necessarily "hard wired" is probably untrue, using my admittedly very limited knowledge of the subject of evolution, (though I have read a good few luminary texts!).

However, it must be uncontroversial to say men can probably detect women who are capable of conceiving a child, (i.e. premenopausal), and if we agree this is the case, then the evolutionary significance is obvious.


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## Pecos (Oct 7, 2021)

I have read through this thread several times and feel like I have been listening to the chatter of high school school freshmen in the boy's gym locker room giving their views on women's bodies. This is embarrassing to me as a 78 year old man who regularly posts on a forum that is predominately senior women. 

Guys, lets try to act like we have matured a bit, just a bit.


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## Alligatorob (Oct 7, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I have read through this thread several times and feel like I have been listening to the chatter of high school school freshmen in the boy's gym locker room giving their views on women's bodies. This is embarrassing to me as a 78 year old man who regularly posts on a forum that is predominately senior women.
> 
> Guys, lets try to act like we have matured a bit, just a bit.


I can see why it looks that way, but I have tried to be respectful and honest in my posts, as have others.  

I would think the senior women might be interested in what we are thinking, and they are of course welcome to comment here, some have.   

I'd be interested in reading a similar thread from women with their thoughts of men.


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## grahamg (Oct 7, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I have read through this thread several times and feel like I have been listening to the chatter of high school school freshmen in the boy's gym locker room giving their views on women's bodies. This is embarrassing to me as a 78 year old man who regularly posts on a forum that is predominately senior women.
> Guys, lets try to act like we have matured a bit, just a bit.


Apologies for my part, (as a 67 year old man)!  
(Btw we're not too old to muse are we, on things probably long past, but I do get your point)


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## StarSong (Oct 8, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I have read through this thread several times and feel like I have been listening to the chatter of high school school freshmen in the boy's gym locker room giving their views on women's bodies. This is embarrassing to me as a 78 year old man who regularly posts on a forum that is predominately senior women.
> 
> Guys, lets try to act like we have matured a bit, just a bit.


Kudos and thanks for this post.


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## StarSong (Oct 8, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> I would think the senior women might be interested in what we are thinking, and they are of course welcome to comment here, some have.


Women who grew up with brothers close in age, or have enjoyed long-term, healthy relationships, or raised sons, or have simply paid attention to what's happened around them, are pretty clear what attracts most men in the long and short term.  That males of our species are initially attracted to 36-24-36 type women isn't a starting revelation.      

Same is true of men who are interested in what attracts women in the long and short term. They figured out long ago that females are initially attracted to tall, strong, men with symmetrical features who have with the power and wherewithal to provide for and protect offspring.

As is true with many aspects of our instincts, worthwhile humans overrule knee-jerk responses by our reptilian brains in favor of what actually benefits us long term.


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## Alligatorob (Oct 8, 2021)

StarSong said:


> As is true with many aspects of our reptilian brains, worthwhile humans overrule knee-jerk responses by our reptilian brains in favor of what actually benefits us long term.


Yes, and its an ongoing battle for most (me anyway).

Better  understanding what our "reptilian brain" is saying and why helps.


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## Sassycakes (Oct 10, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Well, I'm a booty guy, sooooo
> 
> View attachment 187087


You reminded me of this song.


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## mrstime (Oct 10, 2021)

Della said:


> Hugh Hefner's women weren't attracted to him because of his wealth or even attracted to him at all.  They were paid prostitutes.  There will always be a certain type of "stunningly beautiful" (surgically implanted and hairdresser bleached) women who will pretend to love any man, however, dumb, ugly or poor, if he has the price they're asking.


Ah but Hef had a lot of fun no matter what one would call his "ladies".


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## StarSong (Oct 11, 2021)

mrstime said:


> Ah but Hef had a lot of fun no matter what one would call his "ladies".


Hef had plenty of flaws but toward the end of his life he boosted the Hollywood sign conservancy fund to purchase the land behind and adjacent to the sign. (The land under the sign was already in the public trust.)  For his actions in twice restoring and preserving that landmark, Hef will always have a soft spot in my heart.   

His obituary in Vanity Fair"
_"For Hugh Hefner, Los Angeles was home. The late Playboy founder, who died of natural causes on Wednesday in his famous Holmby Hills mansion, was drawn there in the early 1970s and never left. He threw legendary parties that lured in Hollywood’s A-list; he starred in a reality show that revitalized his public reputation as a long-standing Lothario; and he saved the the iconic Hollywood sign that rests high up in the hills. Twice.

Erected in 1923, the Hollywood sign (which originally spelled out “Hollywoodland”) was long a symbol of glamorous Tinseltown dreams. But by 1978, it had started to deteriorate after years of neglect. By that time, Hugh Hefner was already a famous L.A. resident and a household name. The Chamber of Commerce needed a quarter of a million dollars to revitalize the sign—and got just that after Hefner became involved in restoration efforts. As The Hollywood Reporter writes, he threw a lavish fund-raiser, auctioning off letters from the old sign for $27,000 each. Buyers included rock stars like *Alice Cooper* and actors like Gene Autry, who ended up giving enough to restore the Mount Lee plot with new letters. The Hollywood Hills were empty for about three months after that until the chamber was able to replace it with a new sign.

A few decades later, Hefner would come to the rescue once again. Back in 2010, a conservationist group—the Trust for Public Land—was rallying to protect the 138 acres around the sign from developers, who wanted to build luxury properties on Mount Lee. The trust was given an ultimatum of sorts: pay $12.5 million now, and the acres are yours. As the deadline approached, it was able to raise nearly all the cash, but ended up short about $1 million. And it only had about a week and a half left to raise the rest.

Cue Hefner, who was alerted in the nick of time and donated the final $900,000. “It would have been a real shame after having restored it if it wound up sold,” he told People a few days later. “It’s become something iconic and represents not only the town but represents Hollywood dreams, and I think that’s something worth preserving.”_


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## IFortuna (Dec 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Ha ha ha.  Then you'd love Mexico. The women here are widely known for big butts. If you have ever seen the film "Selena" then you know exactly what I mean.
> Personally, I much prefer petite and trim.


Texas too. Thankfully for me. : )


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## David777 (Dec 18, 2021)

The female pelvis shape evolved to allow passage of babies with larger hominid heads containing our expanded brain neocortex, thus widening at the hips.  Female silhouette shape is magnetic like pulling me in willingly strongly. But then beyond outline, an attractive feminine female face has far more to look into.


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## grahamg (Dec 19, 2021)

David777 said:


> The female pelvis shape evolved to allow passage of babies with larger hominid heads containing our expanded brain neocortex, thus widening at the hips.  Female silhouette shape is magnetic like pulling me in willingly strongly. But then beyond outline, an attractive feminine female face has far more to look into.


You are an expert, or have given an experts opinion in my view, (I've undertaken extensive research in this area myself, though purely as an amateur!).


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## fuzzybuddy (Dec 19, 2021)

I've worked with lots of people-male & female. But when I met their spouses, it's "you gotta be kidding me". I would never paired up these two people., in a million years. It's a crap shoot. There's DNA, cultural bias, timing, physical attractiveness, and just plain human weirdness in determining a mate. And if the first one didn't pan out, there's the next, and the next.......


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