# Should Children As Young As 11 Be Allowed Get COVID Vaccine Without Parental Consent?



## OneEyedDiva (Dec 16, 2020)

A new bill in Washington, D.C. may allow them to do just that!
"On Tuesday, the D.C. Council passed the "Minor Consent for Vaccinations Amendment Act" in a 12-to-1 vote. Introduced by council member Mary Cheh in March 2019, the bill would allow kids as young as 11 decide if they want to be vaccinated. Under the bill, doctors would make sure that each kid is "capable of meeting the informed consent standard." To assist in this, the Department of Health would provide age-appropriate information about vaccines."
Full article: https://www.mic.com/p/a-new-bill-in...11-year-olds-consent-to-vaccinations-39947546

But there was enough of a concern about the effects of the vaccine in those under 16 for 4 out of the 17 committee members, tasked with deciding if the vaccine is a go, to vote NO. Here is a screenshot of the statement that was released by the panel. Notice the reference to age 16 and over.  I think this law is crazy and is lawsuits waiting to happen. What if a child has a serious reaction or dies?


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## Aunt Marg (Dec 16, 2020)

No. 

I loathe this sort of thing. I refer to it as... _foot in the door framework, _where it's _this_ today, _something else_ tomorrow, and sooner or later the young and growing crowd are doing whatever they so please.

My rule for such, so long as children are under the roof of their parents home and under the age of 18, they will do, and be guided by their parents, not by some haughty lawmaker or bill/act.


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## Pepper (Dec 16, 2020)

Is this a bill to protect children of anti-vaxxers or Xian "Scientists?"


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## Nathan (Dec 16, 2020)

Not a good idea, 11yr. olds are  just too young to be expected to make informed decisions.


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## Nathan (Dec 16, 2020)

Pepper said:


> Is this a bill to protect children of anti-vaxxers or Xian "Scientists?"


Well the anti-vaxxers as adults should be held accountable, the children need to just _stay_ children for a while, until they are mature enough to be accountable.


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## Pink Biz (Dec 16, 2020)

*No*


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## Aunt Bea (Dec 16, 2020)

No.

If a child is in a family of anti-vaxxers or it is a religious issue then I believe the court should intervene and act in the best interests of the child.

IMO it's not much different than other issues that have mandatory reporting requirements intended to protect children from abuse or neglect.


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## Pepper (Dec 16, 2020)

I'm wondering about the intent of this bill, and who it is protecting


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## MarciKS (Dec 16, 2020)

You know it's not all about anti-vaxxers for crying out loud. Some people do have serious allergy concerns. They may want it but have been medically advised not to and forcing a child to get vaccinated that could die from an adverse reaction is insane.


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## Pepper (Dec 16, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> You know it's not all about anti-vaxxers for crying out loud. Some people do have serious allergy concerns. They may want it but have been medically advised not to and forcing a child to get vaccinated that could die from an adverse reaction is insane.


No one would force anything on anyone with allergies.


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## Becky1951 (Dec 16, 2020)

Pepper said:


> No one would force anything on anyone with allergies.


True but being that young, not a lot of allergies have been discovered as yet.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 17, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> No.
> 
> I loathe this sort of thing. I refer to it as... _foot in the door framework, _where it's _this_ today, _something else_ tomorrow, and sooner or later the young and growing crowd are doing whatever they so please.
> 
> My rule for such, so long as children are under the roof of their parents home and under the age of 18, they will do, and be guided by their parents, not by some haughty lawmaker or bill/act.


I *so* agree with each point you've made Aunt Marg!


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## Aunt Marg (Dec 17, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I *so* agree with each point you've made Aunt Marg!


It's so scary to think about, OneEyed, just to know that such a bill would even be considered, even though I realize that we live in a much different day and age compared to when I was growing up.


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## StarSong (Dec 17, 2020)

I have a very different opinion here.  To begin with, the title of this thread is misleading and inflammatory.  "Should Children As Young As 11 Be Allowed Get *COVID Vaccine *Without Parental Consent?" (Emphasis is mine.)

The reality is that no COVID vaccines have yet been tested or approved for children under the age of 16.  The article states:
_"This bill only applies to vaccinations recommended by the United States Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, like those against HPV; a vaccine can only be given if it's done in accordance with the ACIP's recommended schedule."_

* This bill would apply to polio, MMR, DPT, HPV, chicken pox, and the like. *

Countries that include the US and Canada already give children many rights that parents cannot supersede or overrule.  Among them is the right to an education, food, clothing, a safe environment, emergency medical care, and they cannot be beaten or abused in any way.  

Woe to a a parent whose child shows up at school or a doctor's office with a few suspicious bruises, burn marks, a broken limb, or any other signs of abuse. And rightfully so. Parents taking a belt to their children may see CPS, a police officer, or both at their front door.   

*Children were once little more chattel, but thank God those days are gone*.  Parents must be responsible stewards of their offspring or risk intervention or other consequences.  

In any event, this particular bill does not discuss Covid.  Further, if a safe vaccine does become available for children it's likely that most schools will require vaccination - or medical proof why it cannot be administered - before children may return to classes.  

Proof of vaccination was required by schools during my and my children's school days.  Period.  You didn't vaccinate them, they didn't get in.  Parents who didn't take care of that detail either had to homeschool or discuss the matter with truant officers.


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## Kathleen’s Place (Dec 17, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> No.
> 
> I loathe this sort of thing. I refer to it as... _foot in the door framework, _where it's _this_ today, _something else_ tomorrow, and sooner or later the young and growing crowd are doing whatever they so please.
> 
> My rule for such, so long as children are under the roof of their parents home and under the age of 18, they will do, and be guided by their parents, not by some haughty lawmaker or bill/act.


Agree 199%!!!!!


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## Sunny (Dec 17, 2020)

This strikes me as being about more than the Covid vaccine.  What about those parents who refuse any medical help for anyone in their family at all, for "religious" reasons, or any other kind of reasons?  Their decisions could often be putting their children's lives literally at risk. So do those kids have no rights when it comes to their own lives or health?

This is not an easy one to answer, but I think the answer is much more difficult and complicated than just saying, "Until they are 18, they are just kids and their judgement doesn't count; they must follow the wishes of their parents."


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## Shalimar (Dec 17, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I have a very different opinion here.  To begin with, the title of this thread is misleading and inflammatory.  "Should Children As Young As 11 Be Allowed Get *COVID Vaccine *Without Parental Consent?" (Emphasis is mine.)
> 
> The reality is that no COVID vaccines have yet been tested or approved for children under the age of 16.  The article states:
> _"This bill only applies to vaccinations recommended by the United States Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, like those against HPV; a vaccine can only be given if it's done in accordance with the ACIP's recommended schedule."_
> ...


    Qft.


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## Shalimar (Dec 17, 2020)

In my experience, not all children are fortunate enough  to have parents willing and or able to make decisions in the best interests of their offspring.


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## Kathleen’s Place (Dec 17, 2020)

Sunny said:


> This strikes me as being about more than the Covid vaccine.  What about those parents who refuse any medical help for anyone in their family at all, for "religious" reasons, or any other kind of reasons?  Their decisions could often be putting their children's lives literally at risk. So do those kids have no rights when it comes to their own lives or health?
> 
> This is not an easy one to answer, but I think the answer is much more difficult and complicated than just saying, "Until they are 18, they are just kids and their judgement doesn't count; they must follow the wishes of their parents."


I feel terrible for the kids of parents who either don’t care about them enough to make an informed decision for them, or for religious reasons or whatever would refuse any sort of medical intervention. But we are talking about MY kids who will be lumped in with all of the others. Plus we are talking about a vaccine that has no definitive proof of  long term effects, so yes, I would rather make that decision of whether to have it or not for MY children. I guess I don’t like the lumping anything or anyone together for any reason. Cases need to be taken on individually...IMHO.


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## StarSong (Dec 17, 2020)

Kathleen’s Place said:


> I feel terrible for the kids of parents who either don’t care about them enough to make an informed decision for them, or for religious reasons or whatever would refuse any sort of medical intervention. But we are talking about MY kids who will be lumped in with all of the others. Plus we are talking about a vaccine that has no definitive proof of  long term effects, so yes, I would rather make that decision of whether to have it or not for MY children. I guess I don’t like the lumping anything or anyone together for any reason. Cases need to be taken on individually...IMHO.


This legislation isn't about the Covid vaccine.  It covers vaccines that have been around for decades.


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## Kathleen’s Place (Dec 17, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> In my experience, not all children are fortunate enough  to have parents willing and or able to make decisions in the best interests of their offspring.


And I agree with you on that. But I also think these cases should be taken on an individual basis. I just don’t like the idea of the government (who I don’t like or trust much anyway ) making a blanket decision for me...but most especially for my kids.


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## Kathleen’s Place (Dec 17, 2020)

StarSong said:


> This legislation isn't about the Covid vaccine.  It covers vaccines that have been around for decades.


And a lot of those vaccines I’m not so positive I agree with either. Not so much the vaccines themselves, but the way they are administered. Never was a fan of lumping 3 or 4 differnt vaccines into one bolus.


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## Sunny (Dec 17, 2020)

Wasn't there a movie about a situation like this? Not about vaccines, but about a kid suing his parents for the right to die?


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## StarSong (Dec 17, 2020)

Kathleen’s Place said:


> And a lot of those vaccines I’m not so positive I agree with either. Not so much the vaccines themselves, but the way they are administered. Never was a fan of lumping 3 or 4 differnt vaccines into one bolus.


I agree.  Many doctors and parents are splitting them up.


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## Pepper (Dec 17, 2020)

I bet it has something to do with abortion and a child's right to choose that option without parental notification, which by the way I heartily approve.  Everything in this country seems to revolve around abortion.

Let's not debate this issue, ok, or the thread will be closed and we don't want that.  Just going over in my mind the true intent of this legislation.  Just pondering.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Dec 17, 2020)

Who sends an 11 year old to a doctor or shot availability by themselves????????


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## Pepper (Dec 17, 2020)

@Giantsfan1954 
Yeah, this whole thing is fishy isn't it?


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## Butterfly (Dec 19, 2020)

Giantsfan1954 said:


> Who sends an 11 year old to a doctor or shot availability by themselves????????


Sometimes vaccinations are offered at schools, or at least they used to be.


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## Butterfly (Dec 19, 2020)

My personal opinion is that I do not believe eleven year old children are capable of making an informed decision about much of anything.   Of course, some parents aren't either; but I do not think it is generally a good idea to allow children of such tender age to be making medical decisions.


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## StarSong (Dec 20, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> Sometimes vaccinations are offered at schools, or at least they used to be.


I don't think that happens anymore.  I only recall getting the polio vaccine at a school.  Parents were so desperate to protect their children from the polio scourge - opting out wasn't a thought in anyone's head.  We were all so grateful to Drs. Salk & Sabin.


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## Uptosnuff (Dec 20, 2020)

I decided to delete most of my post, but this is wrong and it shows what the prevailing attitude in D.C. is regarding parental rights and responsibilities.


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## Pepper (Dec 20, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I don't think that happens anymore.  I only recall getting the polio vaccine at a school.  Parents were so desperate to protect their children from the polio scourge - opting out wasn't a thought in anyone's head.  We were all so grateful to Drs. Salk & Sabin.


Tetanus shots were offered here too, but what I remember most is we lined up and each received the SAME Needle! which was dunked in alcohol after each kid, but reused and reused .......... etc.  My mother was a parent volunteer for such ventures.

How did we survive?


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 20, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I have a very different opinion here.  To begin with, the title of this thread is misleading and inflammatory.  "Should Children As Young As 11 Be Allowed Get *COVID Vaccine *Without Parental Consent?" (Emphasis is mine.)
> 
> The reality is that no COVID vaccines have yet been tested or approved for children under the age of 16.  The article states:
> _"This bill only applies to vaccinations recommended by the United States Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, like those against HPV; a vaccine can only be given if it's done in accordance with the ACIP's recommended schedule."_
> ...


I posted it with the title because a friend who lives in D.C. said COVID is included and she is incensed. But if you think about it...what difference does it make *what* vaccine?! No child under the age of consent (N.J. is 18) should be allowed to take any shots without a parent's permission...*period. *Good enough reasons have been stated in this thread.


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## Kathleen’s Place (Dec 20, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I don't think that happens anymore.  I only recall getting the polio vaccine at a school.  Parents were so desperate to protect their children from the polio scourge - opting out wasn't a thought in anyone's head.  We were all so grateful to Drs. Salk & Sabin.


But at least the polio vaccine had


Pepper said:


> Tetanus shots were offered here too, but what I remember most is we lined up and each received the SAME Needle! which was dunked in alcohol after each kid, but reused and reused .......... etc.  My mother was a parent volunteer for such ventures.
> 
> How did we survive?


very nicely apparently! . Ahhh, the good old days


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## StarSong (Dec 21, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I posted it with the title because a friend who lives in D.C. said COVID is included and she is incensed. But if you think about it...what difference does it make *what* vaccine?! No child under the age of consent (N.J. is 18) should be allowed to take any shots without a parent's permission...*period. *Good enough reasons have been stated in this thread.


I do understand what you're saying, Diva.  And generally speaking I agree with your sentiments.  However, there are many crazy parents who distrust and avoid modern medicine to the point of not seeking emergency help for their kids.  We've all seen the news reports. 

Should those parents have the right to impose their beliefs on other humans - to the detriment of those humans - simply because they gave birth to them?  Children are not property, at least not in the US, Canada, AU, the UK and various countries represented on SF. 

Most governments intervene to ensure the safety, health and welfare of their nations' most vulnerable citizens, children especially. As did tribes before formal governments were organized.

Mind you, I'm not in full agreement with this bill, which as far as I can tell hasn't been passed into law. 11 years old seems far too young to make these kinds of decisions. But just based on the childhood horror stories reported on this forum, it's pretty clear that a lot of parents are uncaring, mentally unstable, unwise and/or uninformed.

Seems to me that even in their teens most of those members had far better judgment than did their parents. If some of those parental judgments extended to denying children chicken pox, measles, tetanus, DPT, polio or other standard childhood vaccinations, I think well-informed 16 year olds should be able to consult doctors to jointly make those decisions for their own bodies.


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## Sunny (Dec 21, 2020)

The heading of this topic calls it "a new bill."  Except that it isn't new. It was introduced in March, 2019, long before the Coronavirus.  I very much doubt that this bill would be used now, to give a brand new, let's face it, experimental vaccine to young children without their parents' consent. I don't know anything about this, but it just sounds a little panicky to me. 

It probably was introduced to apply to the trusty old vaccines that nearly every kid gets. I still think at that age, parental permission should be needed, but I doubt that anyone is going to force this brand new vaccine on anybody.  Probably a tempest in a teapot.


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## Aunt Marg (Dec 21, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> My personal opinion is that I do not believe eleven year old children are capable of making an informed decision about much of anything.   *Of course, some parents aren't either*; but I do not think it is generally a good idea to allow children of such tender age to be making medical decisions.


Right you are, Butter, I've known and met more than a few in my day.


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## peramangkelder (Dec 21, 2020)

No responsible parent would let a minor attend anything medically related without adult supervision


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## StarSong (Dec 22, 2020)

Teenagers in most US states and Canada (not sure about AU) can get prescribed birth control without parental notification or consent.  The doctors must respect the minor's privacy.   Same holds for abortion in many US states.


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## Sunny (Dec 22, 2020)

StarSong, so if "teenagers" really means literally teenagers, that would mean kids 13 and older.  That still leaves the 11-year-olds out of the loop.

Like I said, it seems very dubious to me that the schools would dare inject the new Covid vaccine into kids as young as 11, without their parents' permission.  It sounds more like an inflammatory issue to me, along the path of "Ain't it awful? Parents have no rights any more."

But if they are doing it, using this bill as their legal justification, I would be against it. I think 11 is too young. 13 is not.


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## StarSong (Dec 22, 2020)

Agreed @Sunny.  However, there's no evidence that this bill became law (at least none I could find), nor that a Covid vaccine would be included.  Virtually impossible because the language of the bill specifies, "As introduced, this bill permits a minor of any age to consent to receive a vaccine where the vaccination is recommended by the United States Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices."

To become law, the bill must pass a second vote of the council and then go to Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D) for her signature.

Covid vaccines haven't been approved for children, never mind recommended.

I agree that the 11 year capable of making vaccination decisions would be a rare bird indeed. Perhaps that's why this bill appears to have stalled.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 22, 2020)

Sunny said:


> The heading of this topic calls it "a new bill."  Except that it isn't new. It was introduced in March, 2019, long before the Coronavirus.  I very much doubt that this bill would be used now, to give a brand new, let's face it, experimental vaccine to young children without their parents' consent. I don't know anything about this, but it just sounds a little panicky to me.
> 
> It probably was introduced to apply to the trusty old vaccines that nearly every kid gets. I still think at that age, parental permission should be needed, but I doubt that anyone is going to force this brand new vaccine on anybody.  Probably a tempest in a teapot.


Perhaps the bill isn't "new" but it was just passed in October according to the way the article reads. The article was written October 22, 2020.
*"On Tuesday, the D.C. Council passed the "Minor Consent for Vaccinations Amendment Act" in a 12-to-1 vote. Introduced by council member Mary Cheh in March 2019, the bill would allow kids as young as 11 decide if they want to be vaccinated/"*
I don't doubt that the vaccine will be forced at all. And how much you wanna bet children will be required to get the vaccine to be able to attend school (like other vaccines)? A friend who's a nurse said all nurses in the hospital she worked in had to get flu shots. I believe the COVID vaccine will be included in that mandate for health workers at some point. Other employers may require it as well.  Just skip ad for this video.


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## StarSong (Dec 22, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I don't doubt that the vaccine will be forced at all. And how much you wanna bet children will be required to get the vaccine to be able to attend school (like other vaccines)? A friend who's a nurse said all nurses in the hospital she worked in had to get flu shots. I believe the COVID vaccine will be included in that mandate for health workers at some point. Other employers may require it as well.  Just skip ad for this video.


I think it will be more of a pressure type forcing.  You want to travel on our airline?  Prove you've been vaccinated.  Same with crossing international borders.  Schools may require it of teachers and staff unless they have well-documented reasons why they can't have it.

Most employers will likely require it of onsite workers, too. No company wants to risk Covid outbreak shutdowns after vaccines have become widely available. 2020 has already been too painful for many to bear. 

Health insurance companies may eventually require it, too. No vaccine or a really good medical reason why not? No coverage for Covid related illnesses. 

I'm not saying I'm for or against the above, merely that it's how I think it will spin out.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 22, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I do understand what you're saying, Diva.  And generally speaking I agree with your sentiments.  However, there are many crazy parents who distrust and avoid modern medicine to the point of not seeking emergency help for their kids.  We've all seen the news reports.
> 
> Should those parents have the right to impose their beliefs on other humans - to the detriment of those humans - simply because they gave birth to them?  Children are not property, at least not in the US, Canada, AU, the UK and various countries represented on SF.
> 
> ...


I understand your points StarSong. According to this article the bill was passed.
*"On Tuesday, the D.C. Council passed the "Minor Consent for Vaccinations Amendment Act" in a 12-to-1 vote. Introduced by council member Mary Cheh in March 2019, the bill would allow kids as young as 11 decide if they want to be vaccinated. Under the bill, doctors would make sure that each kid is "capable of meeting the informed consent standard." To assist in this, the Department of Health would provide age-appropriate information about vaccines.
This bill only applies to vaccinations recommended by the United States Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, like those against HPV; a vaccine can only be given if it's done in accordance with the ACIP's recommended schedule."*
One concern is that COVID will wind up on the list of vaccinations recommended by the U.S. Advisory committee on Immunization, since it's being so highly touted and pushed.


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## Sunny (Dec 22, 2020)

Diva,  I said, "It seems very dubious to me that the schools would dare inject the new Covid vaccine into kids as young as 11,* without their parents' permission."* It's the permission part that I was referring to.

As for "forcing" the parents to consent, it will probably be more like what StarSong said. Those parents who are absolutely against their children receiving the vaccine will probably have to turn to home-schooling, etc., just as it is for other types of vaccines.


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## Pepper (Dec 22, 2020)

HPV!  Of course, that's the reason!  I said abortion, but, my point was it has something to do with sex.  Absolutely YES, if parents refuse to protect their children against CANCER, the child can choose to be vaccinated for a healthy life!


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## Pepper (Dec 22, 2020)

I have met idiotic people, even medical doctors! who think if the child is not vaccinated re:  HPV their child won't have premarital sex.  Good idea.  Let them marry the person who gives it to them.  Sick of these morons.  I'm getting old and I've had it with stupid.


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## StarSong (Dec 22, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I understand your points StarSong. According to this article the bill was passed.
> *"On Tuesday, the D.C. Council passed the "Minor Consent for Vaccinations Amendment Act" in a 12-to-1 vote. Introduced by council member Mary Cheh in March 2019, the bill would allow kids as young as 11 decide if they want to be vaccinated. Under the bill, doctors would make sure that each kid is "capable of meeting the informed consent standard." To assist in this, the Department of Health would provide age-appropriate information about vaccines.
> This bill only applies to vaccinations recommended by the United States Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, like those against HPV; a vaccine can only be given if it's done in accordance with the ACIP's recommended schedule."*
> One concern is that COVID will wind up on the list of vaccinations recommended by the U.S. Advisory committee on Immunization, since it's being so highly touted and pushed.


Thank you for this.  I stand corrected.

According to their website, and if I'm reading it correctly, it will be enacted as of tomorrow.  Had I been on that committee I would have voted against it.  Most 11 year olds are too young to make these decisions.  

https://lims.dccouncil.us/downloads/LIMS/42000/Signed_Act/B23-0171-Signed_Act.pdf


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 22, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I think it will be more of a pressure type forcing.  You want to travel on our airline?  Prove you've been vaccinated.  Same with crossing international borders.  Schools may require it of teachers and staff unless they have well-documented reasons why they can't have it.
> 
> Most employers will likely require it of onsite workers, too. No company wants to risk Covid outbreak shutdowns after vaccines have become widely available. 2020 has already been too painful for many to bear.
> 
> ...


These are exactly the scenarios I'm thinking will occur, except I hadn't thought about the insurance companies yet. Perhaps I didn't want to even think about it! My DIL who's a teacher's aide is not happy about the prospect of being forced to take a vaccine. And if  insurance companies go that route...oh boy!!


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## StarSong (Dec 22, 2020)

By the time late spring or summer rolls around, unless there are disastrous side effect that have not yet been seen, most people will be fairly comfortable with the Covid vaccines.  

As friends, neighbors and relatives are vaccinated and start to get their lives back, the idea will be much more palatable even for those who are currently saying: "No way, no how."


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## Butterfly (Dec 22, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I think it will be more of a pressure type forcing.  You want to travel on our airline?  Prove you've been vaccinated.  Same with crossing international borders.  Schools may require it of teachers and staff unless they have well-documented reasons why they can't have it.
> 
> Most employers will likely require it of onsite workers, too. No company wants to risk Covid outbreak shutdowns after vaccines have become widely available. 2020 has already been too painful for many to bear.
> 
> ...



I agree.  I have worked for places where flu vaccine was required as a condition of employment.  They cannot force you to take the vaccine, but if you don't, they don't have to hire you or let you continue to work there in certain jobs.  

Several vaccines are also required in most, if not all, states for children to attend schools.  They can't force the vaccine on the child, but they can refuse to admit an unvaccinated child.


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