# $280,000 Health Costs After Medicare Over Couple"s Lifetime



## Lara (Jun 15, 2018)

According to Fidelity, a typical couple retiring this year at age 65 will have a 75% increased since 2002, over their lifetime. A couple will pay $280,000 above and beyond Medicare for their healthcare. I don't know what Medicare Plan they're talking about...if it's just Part A or if it's also B, or D, etc. but these are charges above and beyond medicare insurance.

In 2002 it was $160,000 over a lifetime per typical couple.

I don't have any other facts but, wow, $280,000 is about what it costs to raise a child from birth until they're age 18 including food, clothing, school supplies, healthcare etc.

Everybody, eat your greens and walk or move around somehow everyday.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Jun 15, 2018)

I'm thinking that they are including the out of pocket or Medicaid cost of assisted living, skilled nursing facilities or hospice/end of life care in that number.


----------



## fmdog44 (Jun 15, 2018)

Yet another reason not to retire at 62.


----------



## treeguy64 (Jun 15, 2018)

Ultimately, it's all about the quality of life one can be content with.  If that $280G's, over the next 20-30 yrs., sees a couple living comfortable, happy, healthy lives, up to the end, then that's cool.  If we're talking a poor quality of life, a miserable existence, heavy meds, lack of mobility, etc., for the $$, then it wouldn't be worth it, to me.


----------



## Lara (Jun 15, 2018)

Yes Aunt Bea. Out-of-pocket for sure. Your cartoon is somewhat true but my mother did all the right healthy things all her life and enjoyed a high quality of life until the last 6 months of her life when she began to really decline...she died at home at 93 of cancer and barely suffered at all...pain drugs the last couple of weeks. A very peaceful passing.

Her secret to a long life of health and happiness?...

Everyday she consistently ate health-conscious small portions (big believer of 5 almonds, 1/2 a frozen banana, and 1/2 cup of blueberries, variety of greens, 

everyday), no eating after 4pm., early to bed (8pm) consistently walked everyday, always had friends, active in her church, read a lot (and book-club), crossword

puzzle daily, solitaire, scrabble, always had something fun planned for every single day. 

I was amazed at how all the children in her neighborhood knew "Miss Shirley" and loved visiting her while enjoying her pastels and paper. I could barely keep up with

all her activity.

She always had an oil painting she was working on set up on the kitchen counter so she could dabble with it whenever it struck her fancy. Her painting supplies were 

in a few kitchen drawers. Her house was meticulous...not a speck of dust or clutter.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Jun 15, 2018)

Your mom was one of the lucky ones.  

I wish it could be that way for all of us.

From what I've read over the years, the majority of healthcare-related expenses for seniors occur in the last three years of life.  It doesn't really seem to matter if the last three years come in our sixties or our nineties.

I agree that we should take care of ourselves and enjoy things in moderation but that is about all we can do.

_"Que sera, sera,
Whatever will be, will be;
The future's not ours to see.
Que sera, sera,
What will be, will be..."_


----------



## Lethe200 (Jun 15, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I'm thinking that they are including the out of pocket or Medicaid cost of assisted living, skilled nursing facilities or hospice/end of life care in that number.
> [/IMG]



No, it does _*not *_include AL or Skilled Nursing/Memory care, unfortunately.

*Health care will cost $280,000 in retirement — and that doesn’t include this huge expense*
By Alessandra Malito to MarketWatch: May 12, 2018

(excerpted) The estimate, calculated by Fidelity Investments, has jumped 75% since the company’s first estimate in 2002 (then $160,000). The figure includes life expectancies for the couple, and also includes Medicare coverage and copays, vision, over-the-counter medications and dentures.

But there’s one thing these numbers do not include: long-term care cost, which is “extremely expensive” and in an unpredictable insurance market. An American turning 65 today has a 70% chance of needing some type of long-term care service, which supports daily living tasks (think: eating, bathing, going to the restroom), according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The national average cost for long-term care in the U.S. in 2016 was $225 a day (or $6,844 per month for a semi-private room) in a nursing home (and $253 per day, or $7,698 per month for a private room); $119 per day, or $3,628 per month for care in an assisted living facility; $20.50 an hour for a health aide, or $68 per day for services in an adult day health care center, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Medicaid pays for more than half of these expenses (if the patients qualify), but other means of funding long-term care services is through public funds, out-of-pocket payments and private insurance. Insurance companies offer a variety of products, such as a traditional policy which can be rendered unnecessary down the road if the policyholder ends up not needing long-term care, and hybrid policies, which incorporate long-term care services as part of its coverage.

_(Note: Sorry, I don't know if this is a public link – I access MarketWatch through my WSJournal subscription. Full article: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...t-doesnt-include-this-huge-expense-2018-04-19)_


----------



## Lara (Jun 15, 2018)

Interesting Lethe! Thank you for that information. Too bad it has to be so complicated and pricey.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Jun 15, 2018)

Lethe200 said:


> No, it does _*not *_include AL or Skilled Nursing/Memory care, unfortunately.
> 
> *Health care will cost $280,000 in retirement — and that doesn’t include this huge expense*
> By Alessandra Malito to MarketWatch: May 12, 2018
> ...



There goes the inheritance!!!


----------



## GreenSky (Jun 16, 2018)

The $280K figure is somewhat deceptive.  It's includes vision (glasses) and dental costs.  Probably also hearing aids for people like me.  The 70% needing long term care is also a bit deceiving.  Most people who do need care only need it for a short time.  Medicare covers 100 days of skilled nursing.

My best guess is that by buying a supplement of any kind that figure is at least cut in half.

The only way to have zero cost is to have the taxpayers cover everything for everyone.  Socialism is not good!

Rick


----------



## Lara (Jun 16, 2018)

I didn't know Medicare covers 100 days of skilled nursing so I called Medicare for particulars. You have to be in a hospital for 3 days to qualify and there is a deductible of $1,340. There is also a co-pay of of $164 per day after the first 20 days. Medicare Supplement PlanN pays that deductible and and I think the co-pay for a certain amount of days...but i would verify that. You have to pay over $100 a month to add PlanN. It's complicated.


----------



## GreenSky (Jun 16, 2018)

Yes, it's complicated and that's why most people would be better served by talking with an agent that specializes in Medicare.

You need not verify the above.  Plan N (along with F, G and others) will pay the copay for the days 21-100.

Rick


----------



## Lara (Jun 16, 2018)

Thank you Green Sky...it's nice to know you have some expertise at this. We know who to ask. I guess I'll forgive you for liking "Blazing Saddles" :laugh:


----------



## KingsX (Jun 20, 2018)

.

FYI

The best Medigap plans, C & F,  will not be offered to new members effective 2020.

Yes, government decided to force you to pay the Medicare B deductible. 


https://www.senior65.com/medicare/article/medigap-changes-for-2020-no-new-plans-c-and-f

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...ksjarvis-column-0910-biz-20170908-column.html

.


----------



## GreenSky (Jun 20, 2018)

They are NOT the best plans.  They are just the most pricey.

Would you pay $300 or more just so you don't have to pay the $183 Part B deductible?  IF so, then Plan C or F are the "best."  For those of us who understand value, Plan F/C are almost never a good choice.

Rick


----------



## KingsX (Jun 20, 2018)

GreenSky said:


> They are NOT the best plans.  They are just the most pricey.
> 
> Would you pay $300 or more just so you don't have to pay the $183 Part B deductible?  IF so, then Plan C or F are the "best."  For those of us who understand value, Plan F/C are almost never a good choice.
> 
> Rick





Medicare B deductible increases over time.    God knows what it will be in a few years.

.


----------



## mathjak107 (Jun 21, 2018)

GreenSky said:


> They are NOT the best plans.  They are just the most pricey.
> 
> Would you pay $300 or more just so you don't have to pay the $183 Part B deductible?  IF so, then Plan C or F are the "best."  For those of us who understand value, Plan F/C are almost never a good choice.
> 
> Rick




we have a high deductible f-plan . for us it is a fabulous value . it cost 2k less than an f-plan  and we have a 2k deductible  . we average  300-400 a year so we pocket the savings . not only that but out of the 90 bucks i pay a month 40 of it goes to my gym as they are part of silver sneakers and i no longer pay .


----------



## GreenSky (Jun 21, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> we have a high deductible f-plan . for us it is a fabulous value . it cost 2k less than an f-plan  and we have a 2k deductible  . we average  300-400 a year so we pocket the savings . not only that but out of the 90 bucks i pay a month 40 of it goes to my gym as they are part of silver sneakers and i no longer pay .


My wife and I will be on Medicare before the end of the year.  And we'll pay $32/mo for the HDF plan.  We agree about the definition of "value."

Rick


----------



## GreenSky (Jun 21, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Medicare B deductible increases over time.    God knows what it will be in a few years.
> 
> .


But if you have a plan (C or F) that pays it the premium will reflect the increase in the deductible.

Insurance companies always charge more to pay it for you than the actual deductible amount.  

Rick


----------



## KingsX (Jun 21, 2018)

GreenSky said:


> But if you have a plan (C or F) that pays it the premium will reflect the increase in the deductible.
> 
> Insurance companies always charge more to pay it for you than the actual deductible amount.
> 
> Rick




Fortunately,  my [former] employer pays all my health insurance premium while I was employed and in retirement.

.


----------



## GreenSky (Jun 21, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Fortunately,  my [former] employer pays all my health insurance premium while I was employed and in retirement.
> 
> .


If I didn't have to pay the premium I'd choose Plan F as well.  But for the rest of us Plan F rarely makes sense.

Rick


----------



## KingsX (Jun 21, 2018)

GreenSky said:


> If I didn't have to pay the premium I'd choose Plan F as well.  But for the rest of us Plan F rarely makes sense.
> 
> Rick




It's still unfair for the government to take the Plan C and F option away beginning in 2020
to force more people to pay the Medicare B deductible.

.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jul 1, 2018)

IF the state keeps the same medicare plans we have now for retiree health benefits and IF I do not get a catastrophic illness I don't expect to have to spend anywhere near that amount in my lifetime. My co-pays are only $10 per doctor visit, even for specialists as long as they are in network. I pay nothing for surgeries or post op visits (at least I didn't for my eye surgeries and a cardiac ablation). My lab tests are also free. Had to wear a heart monitor a few times over the years...never paid a dime. Decades ago, I chose Healthways which morphed into Aetna HMO, which was free until I got on Medicare. Aetna seamlessly transferred me into their Medicare HMO plan when I turned 65. I love the plan and I love my doctors. Most of my medications cost $5. A couple cost $18 and one is $30, all for 90 day supplies.


----------



## GreenSky (Jul 2, 2018)

KingsX said:


> It's still unfair for the government to take the Plan C and F option away beginning in 2020
> to force more people to pay the Medicare B deductible.
> 
> .


You mean having the government dictate our insurance is unfair?  I agree but how many people think it's great that the government forced Obamacare on us.  Mandatory seat belt laws.  Drug laws.  Etc.

There are so many examples of big brother that I simply cringe.

Rick


----------



## Lethe200 (Jul 2, 2018)

GreenSky said:


> You mean having the government dictate our insurance is unfair?  I agree but how many people think it's great that the government forced Obamacare on us.  Mandatory seat belt laws.  Drug laws.  Etc.
> 
> There are so many examples of big brother that I simply cringe.
> 
> Rick



Having known someone who died because they WERE NOT wearing their seat belt and were thrown through the windshield, I'm not in agreement with you, sorry.

Like having to wear helmets when riding motorcycles and bikes, someone's right to be "unencumbered" needs to end at my having to pay their medical bills for Emergency and Medicaid care just because they figured they were too healthy and/or young to need to buy any medical insurance.

I sincerely hope none of the folks here ever have the need for long-term Skilled Nursing care. Because there is no "big brother" to pay for it for you, and what Medicaid safety net exists is rapidly being emasculated. The Medicaid-only nursing facilities are mostly a disgrace in this country. 

And it's always been ridiculous to call the ACA "Obamacare" since it's actually "Romneycare", a modified version of the universal healthcare that Richard Nixon was a firm believer in.


----------



## GreenSky (Jul 2, 2018)

Lethe200 said:


> Having known someone who died because they WERE NOT wearing their seat belt and were thrown through the windshield, I'm not in agreement with you, sorry.
> 
> Like having to wear helmets when riding motorcycles and bikes, someone's right to be "unencumbered" needs to end at my having to pay their medical bills for Emergency and Medicaid care just because they figured they were too healthy and/or young to need to buy any medical insurance.
> 
> ...



I never said it was a good idea to go without seat belts or a helmet.  Only that it's not the job of the guberment to force people to use them.  And as far as Obamacare, even Obama proudly called the ACA by that name.

Freedom is not being compelled to do what's right.  It's the freedom to do what is stupid.

While I'm sure you will disagree with me (I'm a libertarian and obviously you're quite a bit to the left), I can't find where the Constitution allows the feds to do most of what they do.

Rick


----------



## mathjak107 (Jul 2, 2018)

i am not in favor of so much gov't regulation of things , but you can't fix stupid and sometimes it takes laws to TRY to keep people from themselves . many times their actions effect others


----------



## GreenSky (Jul 2, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> i am not in favor of so much gov't regulation of things , but you can't fix stupid and sometimes it takes laws to TRY to keep people from themselves . many times their actions effect others



Why is it up to the government to protect us from ourselves?  Who's job is it to "fix stupid."

Laws should ONLY be to protect people from the action of others.  And perhaps get back to what the Constitution allows.

Sorry for the political post.  I'll lay off this stuff.

Rick


----------



## mathjak107 (Jul 2, 2018)

GreenSky said:


> Why is it up to the government to protect us from ourselves?  Who's job is it to "fix stupid."
> 
> Laws should ONLY be to protect people from the action of others.  And perhaps get back to what the Constitution allows.
> 
> ...




exactly what i said . when someone does not wear a seat belt or texts while driving and crashes both our insurance rates and health insurance are effected  because it is us who has to pay for them . insurance is pooled risk where we all pay as a group for what happens to others in the pool . while they may get a rate rise themselves for it collectively we all do to because their increase does not cover the consequences.


----------



## GreenSky (Jul 2, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> exactly what i said . when someone does not wear a seat belt or texts while driving and crashes both our insurance rates and health insurance are effected  because it is us who has to pay for them . insurance is pooled risk where we all pay as a group for what happens to others in the pool . while they may get a rate rise themselves for it collectively we all do to because their increase does not cover the consequences.



Then let's get rid of all fast food, candy, cookies, fatty meat, etc.  All these add to the possibility of heart attack and stroke.  That raises the cost of insurance, doesn't it?  In fact, living in cold climates adds to the risk.  How about moving people out of hurricane zones, earthquake zones, etc.  Small cars are more dangerous that large cars.  That adds to the cost of health insurance doesn't it?

Not to mention people using modern health care to live longer.  That is really the biggest driver of health care costs.

You can't pick your freedoms.

When is too much government enough for you?

Rick


----------



## mathjak107 (Jul 2, 2018)

nah , keep all that bad stuff  , let them all die earlier .it takes the load off of social security and medicare .


----------



## Lethe200 (Jul 6, 2018)

Lara said:


> I didn't know Medicare covers 100 days of skilled nursing so I called Medicare for particulars. You have to be in a hospital for 3 days to qualify and there is a deductible of $1,340. There is also a co-pay of of $164 per day after the first 20 days. Medicare Supplement PlanN pays that deductible and and I think the co-pay for a certain amount of days...but i would verify that. You have to pay over $100 a month to add PlanN. It's complicated.



More specifically, you must be *admitted to the hospital *for those 3 full days to qualify. Your date of discharge is not considered as part of the 3 days. Many people are not aware that very often, particularly in emergency care, the hospital is keeping the patient "for observation."

If you are "under observation" that is not considered admittance. Thus, it will not qualify for Medicare reimbursement.

Also, Medicare does not automatically give you 100 days of full payment. It's a complex system depending on a number of factors. There is a difference, for example, between Skilled Nursing Facility care and Custodial Care. Medicare pays for one, but not the other.

Anyone with Medicare questions should start first with the Medicare website. It's really well-designed and an excellent source of "plain English" booklets.

Here's the one you want to read about Skilled Nursing Facility reimbursements/coinsurance:
https://www.medicare.gov/Pubs/pdf/10153.pdf


----------

