# Sometimes I think my state is just too liberal (or just plain stupid)



## debbie in seattle (Nov 4, 2016)

The powers to be (Dept of Corrections in this case) are changing the name of inmates to "students" or "patients" for some reason.    Gary Ridgway who has confessed to 49 murders and law enforcement believes the actual number is upwards of 80 is a student or patient?    Really?   He's one of the worse murderers of all time.   Call 'em like they are.


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## Marie5656 (Nov 4, 2016)

WTH?   That seems just dumb. I am all for attempts to reform (if applicable) or at least humane treatment (3 hots and a cot) but "students"? Of what?  How to fail at committing the perfect crime?  What next?  A complimentary newspaper at their cell door every morning?  spa days?  Prison is not supposed to be ones lifes goal, or pleasant.  It is what it is..punishment.


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## Falcon (Nov 4, 2016)

And the Libs call the Conservatives  "CRAZY"  !!


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## bluebreezes (Nov 4, 2016)

Seattle, one of my favorite places!

For this news though, on the other hand it's just a label and reflects the progressive nature of some incarceration systems. I read the whole story and I see that they're also going to use the label "individual" in addition to the others. The story didn't sound like much else was going to change as far as conditions or treatment.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 4, 2016)

I never saw this story, but I think calling someone who's killed 49+ times and inmate, criminal, murderer is appropriate and expected.  What is the point of calling any inmate a student, patient or individual?


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## Knight (Nov 4, 2016)

Will that inmate be classified as? A "student" in the art of murder/ or a patient awaiting in his cell evaluation for homicidal tendencies? 


 Liberal thinking can't abide calling him a murderer. That screams of being insensitive and definitely politically incorrect.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 4, 2016)

Knight said:


> Liberal thinking can't abide calling him a murderer. That screams of being insensitive and definitely politically incorrect.



Well, I guess he wasn't very sensitive to his victims or their families who had to bury them.  I think the saying 'you get what you give' should apply in these crimes, bet the crime rate would go down fast.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 4, 2016)

Prisoners should not be abused but saying their self esteem hurts when not called a patient or student is an absurd policy.


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## Carla (Nov 4, 2016)

Beyond ridiculous.


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## Knight (Nov 4, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> Well, I guess he wasn't very sensitive to his victims or their families who had to bury them.  I think the saying 'you get what you give' should apply in these crimes, bet the crime rate would go down fast.



My previous post was supposed to be sarcastic.  After watching Inside The Most Dangerous Prisons - Honduras  
and then reading about the lunacy of what the prison system in Washington wants to I all I can do is shake my head in wonder. 

This video is way to long for most to watch but it does show the stark difference between what prisoners in Honduras experience and prisoners in America experience. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3p6tX1pU9Q


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## tnthomas (Nov 4, 2016)

I am skeptical of this being totally accurate, so far google search is just turning up hits on right-wing sites like breitbart.com.

I've been all over the Department of Corrections Washington State, so far have not found the memo mentioned as being issued by Secretary of Corrections Richard Morgan.


I currently work in a California prison, and know that some label_ softening_ takes place, undoubtedly inspired by the batteries of behavioral health professionals employed by the State.  The "student" or "patient" labels have not shown up in California prisons, even-though there  _are _inmates that are taking classes, and therefore *are* students.  And, there _are_ inmates that in fact *are *patients, as they are receiving medical treatment.   They are still inmates.

I really can't see the hub-bub, if you are incarcerated then it doesn't matter what label is ascribed to you, you still are a *prisoner*.


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## Warrigal (Nov 4, 2016)

Thanks for that TNT. I was thinking along the same lines. Some prisoners are indeed engaged in study and some others are undergoing psychiatric treatment, or at least I hope that is the case because rehabilitation is important. However, this whole report sounds a bit like the frothing that goes on every Christmas about Moslems causing a ban on Christmas carols and/or decorations at the mall. It doesn't matter that it isn't realistic, the frothing continues unabated.

It might be important to recognise that some prisoners are also fathers or mothers. Prisoner is not their only defining quality, nor is murderer, thief or embezzler. Locked up or not, they are still human beings. Treating them as such within the limits of the prison system is a necessary element of any rehabilitation program.

When did the word 'liberal' become such a derogative term?



> liberal, adj: willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.



Surely it is worthwhile exploring some new ideas to build a more successful correctional system. 
It's not as if it is entirely satisfactory as it is.


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## Ray (Nov 4, 2016)

Marie5656 said:


> WTH?   That seems just dumb. I am all for attempts to reform (if applicable) or at least humane treatment (3 hots and a cot) but "students"? Of what?  How to fail at committing the perfect crime?  What next?  A complimentary newspaper at their cell door every morning?  spa days?  Prison is not supposed to be ones lifes goal, or pleasant.  It is what it is..punishment.



Stupid, of course. But it can be done right. For example, how about a very warm lounger for killers (aka hot seat).


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## Ray (Nov 4, 2016)

A convicted embezzler checks into a federal "country club" jail and is given an appointment with the warden to discuss the rules.

He shows up and is offered coffee or tea as he and the warden chat. The warden explains that the intention of his facility is to not turn a basically good citizen into a hardened criminal so they try to make things as normal as possible. "For example",  says the warden, "Monday is tennis day here. Do you prefer hard or clay court?". The prisoner is shocked but replies, "Clay". The warden checks some papers on his desk and says, "O.K. - we have an opening at 2:00pm, I'll book you". He then says, "Now about golf - championship or executive length?" The prisoner, again shocked, says, "Executive length". The warden says, "You are lucky - we have one on campus - let's see now, how about 8:45am on Tuesdays?". Naturally, the prisoner is delighted.

The warden says, "Now, in our facility Wednesday is sex day. Do you prefer straight or homosexual?". The prisoner immediately responds, "Straight". The warden consults his paper and says, "Oh-oh, I think you're gonna hate Wednesdays around here".


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## tnthomas (Nov 4, 2016)

Ray said:


> A convicted embezzler checks into a federal "country club" jail and is given an appointment with the warden to discuss the rules.
> 
> He shows up and is offered coffee or tea as he and the warden chat. The warden explains that the intention of his facility is to not turn a basically good citizen into a hardened criminal so they try to make things as normal as possible. "For example",  says the warden, "Monday is tennis day here. Do you prefer hard or clay court?". The prisoner is shocked but replies, "Clay". The warden checks some papers on his desk and says, "O.K. - we have an opening at 2:00pm, I'll book you". He then says, "Now about golf - championship or executive length?" The prisoner, again shocked, says, "Executive length". The warden says, "You are lucky - we have one on campus - let's see now, how about 8:45am on Tuesdays?". Naturally, the prisoner is delighted.
> 
> The warden says, "Now, in our facility Wednesday is sex day. Do you prefer straight or homosexual?". The prisoner immediately responds, "Straight". The warden consults his paper and says, "Oh-oh, I think you're gonna hate Wednesdays around here".




Amusing, I'll have to tell that one at work.


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## debbie in seattle (Nov 4, 2016)

"Secretary of Corrections Richard Morgan has put out a memo to staff requesting the alternation of vocabulary."   Secretary Morgan is trying to remove negative connotations when referring to those who are or have been imprisoned.

Washington isn't alone in this.  Prisoners in other states like Pennsylvania and those in federal penitentiaries are being referred to more kindly now because studies show words do matter-and what you call someone can not only define who he is now, but who he'll be in the future as well.


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## Manatee (Nov 4, 2016)

Some people go out of their way to be stupid.


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## Butterfly (Nov 4, 2016)

debbie in seattle said:


> The powers to be (Dept of Corrections in this case) are changing the name of inmates to "students" or "patients" for some reason.    Gary Ridgway who has confessed to 49 murders and law enforcement believes the actual number is upwards of 80 is a student or patient?    Really?   He's one of the worse murderers of all time.   Call 'em like they are.



Agreed!  Is this for real?


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## debbie in seattle (Nov 5, 2016)

Sadly, it is.


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## Butterfly (Nov 5, 2016)

REALLY stupid, IMHO.  Don't want to hurt those convicted felons' feelings, I guess.  Do they get a trophy for participation???  GEEZ!


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## tnthomas (Nov 5, 2016)

You know what's really sad?  That people are accepting this as "the gospel" truth with-out  a shred of evidence, other than some obviously slanted media reports.

Now, I would like to accept this as "gospel" as well, does anyone have a link to, or a copy/paste of this memo that the Secretary of Corrections Richard Morgan supposedly issued?


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## WhatInThe (Nov 5, 2016)

debbie in seattle said:


> "Secretary of Corrections Richard Morgan has put out a memo to staff requesting the alternation of vocabulary."   Secretary Morgan is trying to remove negative connotations when referring to those who are or have been imprisoned.
> 
> Washington isn't alone in this.  Prisoners in other states like Pennsylvania and those in federal penitentiaries are being referred to more kindly now because studies show words do matter-and what you call someone can not only define who he is now, but who he'll be in the future as well.




Link

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ffender-label-in-attempt-to-end-stereotyping/


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## tnthomas (Nov 5, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> Link
> 
> http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ffender-label-in-attempt-to-end-stereotyping/



Thank you.   Although the authenticity of the memo linked in the Seattle Times article can not be validated, to publish such does at least provide outside scrutiny.

Here is the memo reportedly issued by Richard Morgan, Secretary Washington State Department of Corrections:


> (A DOC spokesman sent the following memo in an email to The Seattle
> Times.)
> 
> Phasing out the Word "Offender"
> ...





Once again, I have to say-  much ado about nothing, a label change does not change anything materially, regarding these Washington State inmates, they are still incarcerated under the same conditions as before.

I think that a lot of people expect some kind of *Scarlett Letter* to be affixed to these people; perhaps so as to feel superior in some way...?    I think perhaps you folks that are upset by all this should reveal your feelings here.    Do you want people who have paid their debt to society, and been released, to fail at re-entry to society? Or, do you want them to succeed, and be productive? 

Do you feel that former inmates should carry a stigma with them through the rest of their lives?

Have you ever driven a car while intoxicated?   If you have, you are one of the lucky ones who didn't get caught.   Or worse, cause a fatality, which would get you a lengthy prison sentence.

Anyone here have a relative that used drugs?   If so, do you wish them to be a failure forever, or would you like to see your loved one thrive, and re-join the family?


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## Ray (Nov 5, 2016)

_Once again, I have to say- much ado about nothing, a label change does not change anything materially, regarding these Washington State inmates, they are still incarcerated under the same conditions as before._

I disagree. The terminology an official uses will often reflect their thinking about the (in this case) criminal, his crime, his punishment, the facility, and the whole relationship between society as a whole and the criminal.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 5, 2016)

tnthomas said:


> Once again, I have to say-  much ado about nothing, a label change does not change anything materially, regarding these Washington State inmates, they are still incarcerated under the same conditions as before.
> 
> I think that a lot of people expect some kind of *Scarlett Letter* to be affixed to these people; perhaps so as to feel superior in some way...?    I think perhaps you folks that are upset by all this should reveal your feelings here.    Do you want people who have paid their debt to society, and been released, to fail at re-entry to society? Or, do you want them to succeed, and be productive?
> 
> Do you feel that former inmates should carry a stigma with them through the rest of their lives?



I agree Tn, now that I think about it, it is blown out of proportion, especially by certain websites that exaggerate all these things to promote their agendas.  The names they use is not a big deal really, and former inmates shouldn't carry that stigma around forever.  Using someone who murdered over 49 people just adds to the drama desired, that stood out when I first read this.


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## tnthomas (Nov 5, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> I agree Tn, now that I think about it, it is blown out of proportion, especially by certain websites that exaggerate all these things to promote their agendas.  The names they use is not a big deal really, and former inmates shouldn't carry that stigma around forever.  Using someone who murdered over 49 people just adds to the drama desired, that stood out when I first read this.



Yes, one of the lead sites to carry this 'story' is breitbart.com/big-government/, a premier peddler of *F*ear, *U*ncertainty and *D*oubt....not to mention the now common FOX news style of opinion+disinformation that passes for actual news facts, accepted by some in society.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 5, 2016)

tnthomas said:


> Yes, one of the lead sites to carry this 'story' is breitbart.com/big-government/, a premier peddler of *F*ear, *U*ncertainty and *D*oubt....not to mention the now common FOX news style of opinion+disinformation that passes for actual news facts, accepted by some in society.



Yes, I noticed that!  Trump's right hand man, Steve Bannon, all makes very much sense.  Guess he'll be jumping on the Trump TV train if the Donald loses.


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## The Inspector (Nov 5, 2016)

In General  punishing prisons just make harden criminals, that will kill not to go back and only know how to be criminals.

Even in Texas prison rehab of some kind is seen as more cost effective,Then just warehousing prisoners.

  This is one of those things our emotional system gets wrong. We act out of anger.not what works.


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## Butterfly (Nov 5, 2016)

Well, here they still call them "inmates."


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## fureverywhere (Nov 5, 2016)

When I'm not hugging trees and supporting gay whales...I still have conservative views on the prison system. Well, as far as drug offenses yes the dealers are bastards. But for the people in for personal use...release them into rehab facilities and teach them to be self-supporting without chemicals, they should be patients with a medical condition and not criminals.

For violent crime? If you kill a bunch of people and confess to it...never mind if you act proud of it...fire up Old Sparky, actually that's probably a waste of good electricity. Hang them and be done with it.


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## Warrigal (Nov 5, 2016)

My country was built on the labour of convicts and the enterprise of ex convicts.


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## The Inspector (Nov 5, 2016)

> For violent crime? If you kill a bunch of people and confess to  it...never mind if you act proud of it...fire up Old Sparky, actually  that's probably a waste of good electricity. Hang them and be done with  it.



There are some that can't be rehabed and need to do life. The death penalty is for another thread.


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