# Where do we deport Sharia infused immigrants?



## Lon (Aug 31, 2016)

How about humanely putting them on large container ships and cruising them to one of the many very habitable islands in the South Pacific, like a few in the TONGA CHAIN of islands of which I have been on a few. They would have food & shelter and most importantly, they could practice and obey SHAIRA LAW till their hearts content.


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## Shalimar (Aug 31, 2016)

Lon said:


> How about humanely putting them on large container ships and cruising them to one of the many very habitable islands in the South Pacific, like a few in the TONGA CHAIN of islands of which I have been on a few. They would have food & shelter and most importantly, they could practice and obey SHAIRA LAW till their hearts content.



How do you determine who are sharia infused, and who are not, before banishing them like lepers? Once determined, do you keep "them" imprisoned, kids and all?  Frankly, I am far more terrified of the effects of  your white privilege infused 

righteousness, than any threat of immigrant based terrorism. Trading in one's humanity for supposed security? No thank you. Monstrous.


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## Cookie (Aug 31, 2016)

I agree Shalimar, furthermore, the Lon seems to be losing it and displaying some cognitive mishmash.


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## Shalimar (Aug 31, 2016)

Cookie said:


> I agree Shalimar, furthermore, the Lon seems to be losing it and displaying some cognitive mishmash.



Qft.


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## mitchezz (Aug 31, 2016)

Cookie said:


> I agree Shalimar, furthermore, the Lon seems to be losing it and displaying some cognitive mishmash.



Or he's very bored and is looking for a fight to pass the time.


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## Shalimar (Aug 31, 2016)

mitchezz said:


> Or he's very bored and is looking for a fight to pass the time.



I have wondered now and then if posters were pawns on a chessboard, here for his amusement, rather than part of a two way conversation. Rather manipulative, if true.


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## Warrigal (Aug 31, 2016)

What about all those people who have been infused with Canon Law? Where do we send them?


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## fureverywhere (Aug 31, 2016)

I dunno, my Dad began life as an across the board Republican. Later in life maybe his 60's to late 80's he became amazingly liberal. So much so that my brother, the draft card burning hippie turned Archie Bunker, would argue with him. Hearing my Dad say " Oh you simply can't be so narrow minded" was surreal indeed. Now well into his nineties and a bunch of medications he's changed yet again. 

I'm sorry to say I'll cut the phone conversation short when he goes on a tangent. Something like " Well don't you think all these foreigners who come to America should start being Americans or they should send them back? I mean they want to be here so make them learn..." Yeah Dad, oh you know I think the dogs caught something in the yard...I gotta go but I'll call you over the weekend...love ya


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## Ameriscot (Sep 1, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> How do you determine who are sharia infused, and who are not, before banishing them like lepers? Once determined, do you keep "them" imprisoned, kids and all?  Frankly, I am far more terrified of the effects of  your white privilege infused
> 
> righteousness, than any threat of immigrant based terrorism. Trading in one's humanity for supposed security? No thank you. Monstrous.



Totally agree!


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## Ameriscot (Sep 1, 2016)

Maybe a better option would be to ship all the Islamaphobes to some deserted islands somewhere?!


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## Ray (Sep 1, 2016)

While Lon's post was a bit extreme - and I believe done with the tongue firmly placed against his cheek - the introduction of Canon law was even more extreme.

Think of it this way - who cares what religion or religious laws an individual follows? However, when one's religious dictates are at odds with the principles expressed in our Constitution, that represents a problem.

How does Canon law conflict with the Constitution?


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## QuickSilver (Sep 1, 2016)

The point is...  Do we now institute a "religious test" HERE?  In America?  A person can believe ones religious teachings are correct and still follow the laws of our country.  Many things in the Bible would not be allowed today...  Stoning come to mind.


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## Warrigal (Sep 1, 2016)

Ray said:


> While Lon's post was a bit extreme - and I believe done with the tongue firmly placed against his cheek - the introduction of Canon law was even more extreme.
> 
> Think of it this way - who cares what religion or religious laws an individual follows? However, when one's religious dictates are at odds with the principles expressed in our Constitution, that represents a problem.
> 
> How does Canon law conflict with the Constitution?



It doesn't because religious codes cannot be supported against the law of the land. However, the sacred seal of the confessional does seem to enjoy special privilege.

In general a Catholic may consult a priest for advice on moral issues, just as a Muslim may consult the iman for a ruling or an orthodox Jew may defer to his rabbi. Sharia law does not bind nonmuslims just a Canon law has no authority over the general population.

There is no reason to be afraid of the special codes of any religious group unless there is non compliance with state laws. When this happens prosecution is the remedy, not mass deportations.


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## tnthomas (Sep 1, 2016)

Cookie said:


> I agree Shalimar, furthermore, the Lon seems to be losing it and displaying some cognitive mishmash.



I rather enjoy Lon's "stir-the-pot" threads, and I suspect that he enjoys the notoriety as well.


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## Jackie22 (Sep 1, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> I dunno, my Dad began life as an across the board Republican. Later in life maybe his 60's to late 80's he became amazingly liberal. So much so that my brother, the draft card burning hippie turned Archie Bunker, would argue with him. Hearing my Dad say " Oh you simply can't be so narrow minded" was surreal indeed. Now well into his nineties and a bunch of medications he's changed yet again.
> 
> I'm sorry to say I'll cut the phone conversation short when he goes on a tangent. Something like " Well don't you think all these foreigners who come to America should start being Americans or they should send them back? I mean they want to be here so make them learn..." Yeah Dad, oh you know I think the dogs caught something in the yard...I gotta go but I'll call you over the weekend...love ya



...this reminds me of some of my relatives.


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## Lon (Sep 1, 2016)

Determining those of Shaira belief could be determined by a low key brief interview.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 1, 2016)

Lon said:


> Determining those of Shaira belief could be determined by a low key brief interview.




Seriously?


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## Ameriscot (Sep 1, 2016)

Lon said:


> Determining those of Shaira belief could be determined by a low key brief interview.



Really?  And you think they'd be too stupid to lie about what they believe if it meant they would not be allowed entry?


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## Lon (Sep 1, 2016)

Shalimar says to Lon  -- I am far more terrified of the effects of  your white privilege infused 

 righteousness, 

Interesting that Shali would respond this way to my post. What she is inferring pisses me off, particularly when she is responding to a guy that grew up in a multi cultural, multi ethnic environment and has multi racial family members.


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## Ray (Sep 1, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> It doesn't because religious codes cannot be supported against the law of the land. However, the sacred seal of the confessional does seem to enjoy special privilege.
> 
> In general a Catholic may consult a priest for advice on moral issues, just as a Muslim may consult the iman for a ruling or an orthodox Jew may defer to his rabbi. Sharia law does not bind nonmuslims just a Canon law has no authority over the general population.
> 
> ...



There is no problem as long as civil law is accepted over Sharia law.


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## Lon (Sep 1, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Seriously?



Yes ----seriously, By asking the right questions their faith would compel them to respond honestly.


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## Ameriscot (Sep 1, 2016)

Lon said:


> Shalimar says to Lon  -- I am far more terrified of the effects of  your white privilege infused
> 
> righteousness,
> 
> Interesting that Shali would respond this way to my post. What she is inferring pisses me off, particularly when she is responding to a guy that grew up in a multi cultural, multi ethnic environment and has multi racial family members.



I'll bet your multicultural family has no Muslims.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 1, 2016)

Lon said:


> Shalimar says to Lon  -- I am far more terrified of the effects of  your white privilege infused
> 
> righteousness,
> 
> Interesting that Shali would respond this way to my post. What she is inferring pisses me off, particularly when she is responding to a guy that grew up in a multi cultural, multi ethnic environment and has multi racial family members.



However, you are white... and with that comes "white privilege".   I'm absolutely certain you will deny that that exists... in fact most of us don't see it.. but it's a real thing.  You have had it all your life Lon...  All of us have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

*



			White privilege
		
Click to expand...

*


> (or *white skin privilege*) is a term for societal privileges that benefit people identified as white in Western countries, beyond what is commonly experienced by non-white people under the same social, political, or economic circumstances. Academic perspectives such as critical race theory and whiteness studies use the concept of "white privilege" to analyze how racism and racialized societies affect the lives of white or white-skinned people.
> 
> According to Peggy McIntosh, whites in Western societies enjoy advantages that non-whites do not experience, as "an invisible package of unearned assets".[SUP][1][/SUP] White privilege denotes both obvious and less obvious passive advantages that white people may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice. These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; presumed greater social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely. The effects can be seen in professional, educational, and personal contexts. The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3]


[/SUP]


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## Shalimar (Sep 1, 2016)

Lon said:


> Shalimar says to Lon  -- I am far more terrified of the effects of  your white privilege infused
> 
> righteousness,
> 
> Interesting that Shali would respond this way to my post. What she is inferring pisses me off, particularly when she is responding to a guy that grew up in a multi cultural, multi ethnic environment and has multi racial family members.



That's a bit like saying male privilege does not exist because one grew up surrounded by women.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 1, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> That's a bit like saying male privilege does not exist because one grew up surrounded by women.



I think Lon is making the common mistake of believing "white privilege" means White people don't have to work for what they have.


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## Lon (Sep 1, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> I'll bet your multicultural family has no Muslims.



No, but a couple of Sikhs


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## Ray (Sep 1, 2016)

Once again, suggesting that a national security problem exists and discussing solutions makes on a racist.

I am not sure what the so called "white privilege" has to do with Muslims. Sounds like the usual leftist "dog whistle".


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## Shalimar (Sep 1, 2016)

Ray said:


> Once again, suggesting that a national security problem exists and discussing solutions makes on a racist.
> 
> I am not sure what the so called "white privilege" has to do with Muslims. Sounds like the usual leftist "dog whistle".



Hmm. Considering that many of my clients are Muslims, perhaps I have a different perspective.


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Sep 1, 2016)

I, too, have wondered just how this "vetting" process will go.  What is this "questioning" one speaks of?  Let's see.

"Mr. Habib, do you believe the Koran is inspired by Allah and do you adhere to its teachings?"
"Yes, Mr. Trumpete.  I do."
"Guard!  Deport Mr. Habib and his family because he is a dangerous person."

"Mr. Jones, do you believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God and do you adhere to its teachings... including if a man cuts his hair he is to be put to death and any non-believers are to be slain?"  
"Well, Mr. Trumpete.  I believe in the Bible but really don't hold with all those old testament teachings."
"Guard!  Show Mr. Jones to the door.  Give him a gift card for dinner at one of my resorts.  He's not dangerous, he's not a Muslim or a Mexican."

If a person is bent on doing harm to the U.S. citizens, will he actually tell an interviewer that he believes all infidels should be killed?  If he plans on carrying a bomb into a crowd, will he tell a government agent he believes Sharia Law should prevail in the U.S. and he plans on seeing that happen?  The so-called "vetting" process is simply a means of denying entry to the U.S. by anyone of foreign descent... except those from countries where Trump and cronies have financial interests.  How many of the recent mass murders have been committed by immigrants from Islamic countries?  OTOH, how many by radicalized U.S. citizens?  Is Trump suggesting each and every person's Facebook. e-mail, phone texts, etc. will be monitored to make certain no threats come from within?

His plan is NOT a plan!  His plan is nothing but campaign rhetoric. designed to stir the masses of rednecks and religious zealots so they will vote for him.


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## Ray (Sep 1, 2016)

O.K. Shamimar - assuming that your clients think of themselves as Americans who happen to practice the Muslim religion, would they not consider the protection of America as a priority - or would they play the "white privilege" game or maybe the other one - "white guilt".


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## Shalimar (Sep 1, 2016)

Ray said:


> O.K. Shamimar - assuming that your clients think of themselves as Americans who happen to practice the Muslim religion, would they not consider the protection of America as a priority - or would they play the "white privilege" game or maybe the other one - "white guilt".


Hi Ray, I am a Canadian, living in Canada, so I think their first loyalty would be to the Maple Leaf.


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## Warrigal (Sep 1, 2016)

Lon's original premise reminds me of the infamous White Australia Policy that was designed to keep out undesirable aliens i.e. most coloureds, the Chinese in particular, Jews and lots of people who weren't of British descent.

The instrument used was a spelling test in the form of a dictation in any language chosen by the interviewer. If you wanted them to fail, the test was in Welsh.

Not very fair but had the desired effect of population screening.


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## Susie (Sep 1, 2016)

Lon said:


> Determining those of Shaira belief could be determined by a low key brief interview.


Good idea!
And those infected with Sharia Law, should be given the chance to be with their mates at home, so sending them back from whence they came, could 'possibly' be a joyous relief for many.


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## Lon (Sep 1, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Lon's original premise reminds me of the infamous White Australia Policy that was designed to keep out undesirable aliens i.e. most coloureds, the Chinese in particular, Jews and lots of people who weren't of British descent.
> 
> The instrument used was a spelling test in the form of a dictation in any language chosen by the interviewer. If you wanted them to fail, the test was in Welsh.
> 
> Not very fair but had the desired effect of population screening.



Warri--- I have no problem with any people of color, ethnicity, religion or political belief. I do have a problem with admitting those that MAY be detrimental to the continuation of our country and society by following religious laws that conflict with our Federal & State laws.


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## Warrigal (Sep 1, 2016)

I'm talking about the decision to discriminate against any one class of people and then finding some unfair and arbitrary way to act against them. That's what the White Australia Policy had as its foundation. 

A spelling test or a few questions will not provide a reliable legally supportable filter.  Even your term "sharia infused" is so vague that it is meaningless. On one interpretation it could mean every Muslim on the planet. On another it could mean every iman.


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## Carla (Sep 1, 2016)

I think immigrants coming into this country should learn our culture and attempt to blend into our society. Learn our language, our traditions, abide by our laws. They can hold onto their traditions and any part of their culture that does not interfere with our laws. Their laws do not supercede laws of this country. I am tolerant in many ways but it is important that they attempt to assimilate into our society. If they break our laws, they must be treated the same way we all are.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 2, 2016)

Where has anyone gotten the idea that there is a push to replace our laws with Sharia?  Except in the minds of the Radicals... both Islamic AND our Conservatives.


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## Ameriscot (Sep 2, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Where has anyone gotten the idea that there is a push to replace our laws with Sharia?  Except in the minds of the Radicals... both Islamic AND our Conservatives.



Fearmongers.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 2, 2016)

Yes... apparently America has some very fearful people..  and here I thought we were the "Home of the brave"!


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## Ray (Sep 2, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Hi Ray, I am a Canadian, living in Canada, so I think their first loyalty would be to the Maple Leaf.



That's cool. I don't believe that anyone has a problem with such people - here, there or anywhere.


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## Ray (Sep 2, 2016)

Carla said:


> I think immigrants coming into this country should learn our culture and attempt to blend into our society. Learn our language, our traditions, abide by our laws. They can hold onto their traditions and any part of their culture that does not interfere with our laws. Their laws do not supercede laws of this country. I am tolerant in many ways but it is important that they attempt to assimilate into our society. If they break our laws, they must be treated the same way we all are.



Perfect. I am a product of Noo Yawk. We had every ethnic group imaginable. While the new arrivals often clung to the old language and everyone clung to the holidays and traditions (lotsa beer on St. Paddy's Day), the next generation and following generations fully assimilated - but the "fun stuff" (biergartens, e.g.) continued, and "open to all".

And, to your last point, we all had the same laws.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 2, 2016)

Chicago is diverse.. and is a "city of neighborhoods"...   We have a specific neighborhood for nearly every nationality and ethnic group.  It's human nature to want to be with people and a culture that is familiar to you.  It's normal to want to be able to communicate in your native language.  True assimilation generally does not occur until the 2nd generation.  The children of immigrants will be the ones to assimilate.   My  great grandparents came from Germany.  They lived in a German speaking neighborhood.  My great grandparents never really did pick up English well.. However my grandparents DID.. and my parents did not speak any German beyond a few words and phrases.   Why do people think Hispanics must speak English and assimilate on DAY ONE??    Seriously.. it seems to be a different standard being espoused.


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## Ameriscot (Sep 2, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Yes... apparently America has some very fearful people..  and here I thought we were the "Home of the brave"!



Apparently not any more.  That's why everyone is packing a gun and wanting to keep out all Muslims and immigrants.  FEAR!


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## QuickSilver (Sep 2, 2016)

Lon said:


> Warri--- I have no problem with any people of color, ethnicity, religion or political belief. I do have a problem with admitting those that MAY be detrimental to the continuation of our country and society by following religious laws that conflict with our Federal & State laws.



Can you please explain HOW?   Where do you get the idea that their religious laws will prevail over our law?   If they break our laws they are arrested.  I don't know why you are so fearful of this..


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## Ruthanne (Sep 2, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> Apparently not any more.  That's why everyone is packing a gun and wanting to keep out all Muslims and immigrants.  FEAR!


Well, not everyone Annie, I am not packing a gun and I don't want to keep out all Muslims and immigrants.


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## Ameriscot (Sep 2, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> Well, not everyone Annie, I am not packing a gun and I don't want to keep out all Muslims and immigrants.



Apologies.  Should have said many.  Far too many.


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## Sunny (Sep 2, 2016)

"Their faith would compel them to respond honestly..."

Time for a little levity.

The Irish Ballad
by Tom Lehrer

About a maid I'll sing a song,
Sing rickety-tickety-tin,
About a maid I'll sing a song
Who didn't have her family long.
Not only did she do them wrong,
She did ev'ryone of them in, them in,
She did ev'ryone of them in.


One morning in a fit of pique,
Sing rickety-tickety-tin,
One morning in a fit of pique,
She drowned her father in the creek.
The water tasted bad for a week,
And we had to make do with gin, with gin,
We had to make do with gin.


Her mother she could never stand,
Sing rickety-tickety-tin,
Her mother she cold never stand,
And so a cyanide soup she planned.
The mother died with a spoon in her hand,
And her face in a hideous grin, a grin,
Her face in a hideous grin.

She set her sister's hair on fire,
Sing rickety-tickety-tin,
She set her sister's hair on fire,
And as the smoke and flame rose high'r,
Danced around the funeral pyre,
Playin' a violin, -olin,
Playin' a violin.


She weighted her brother down with stones,
Rickety-tickety-tin,
She weighted her brother down with stones,
And sent him off to davy jones.
All they ever found were some bones,
And occasional pieces of skin, of skin,
Occasional pieces of skin.


One day when she had nothing to do,
Sing rickety-tickety-tin,
One day when she had nothing to do,
She cut her baby brother in two,
And served him up as an irish stew,
And invited the neighbors in, -bors in,
Invited the neighbors in.


*And when at last the police came by,
Sing rickety-tickety-tin,
And when at last the police came by,
Her little pranks she did not deny,
To do so she would have had to lie,
And lying, she knew, was a sin, a sin,*
*Lying, she knew, was a sin.

*

My tragic tale, I won't prolong,
Rickety-tickety-tin,
My tragic tale I won't prolong,
And if you do not enjoy the song,
You've yourselves to blame if it's too long,
You should never have let me begin, begin,
You should never have let me begin.


Read more:  Tom Lehrer - The Irish Ballad Lyrics | MetroLyrics 
​


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## Gemma (Sep 2, 2016)

> QuickSilver asked:  Why do people think Hispanics must speak English



Isn't that what Trump wants by what he stated:  "Only English should be spoken in America."  

Is Trump going to make all schools stop foreign language classes?  Is he also going to make his son Barron stop speaking French and Slovenian and only use English?  Same for his wife?  Or is he just going to be a hypocrite?


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## Shalimar (Sep 2, 2016)

What is wrong with being multilingual? Canada has two official languages, no harm done. We are enriched by diversity rather than drowned.


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## Gemma (Sep 2, 2016)

I agree with you Shalimar.  There isn't and shouldn't be anything wrong with it.  Trump is sounding more and more like a dictator whenever he opens his mouth.


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## Lon (Sep 2, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Can you please explain HOW?   Where do you get the idea that their religious laws will prevail over our law?   If they break our laws they are arrested.  I don't know why you are so fearful of this..



I have NO FEAR------------I can envisage however a situation where a Muslim that follows Sharia Law commits a offense that is punishable by our legal system and try to use his religious beliefs as a defense (AND WINS) This has already been the case in some places. Stonning an adultress---how barbaric.


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## Sunny (Sep 2, 2016)

> This has already been the case in some places.



Examples, please?


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## Ruthanne (Sep 2, 2016)

Lon said:


> I have NO FEAR------------I can envisage however a situation where a Muslim that follows Sharia Law commits a offense that is punishable by our legal system and try to use his religious beliefs as a defense (AND WINS) This has already been the case in some places. Stonning an adultress---how barbaric.


Where and when did this happen Lon?


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## Ray (Sep 2, 2016)

I agree - anyone should be able to speak any language they want as long as they can find someone to talk to. However, the language of governmental agencies and offices should be English.


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## Shalimar (Sep 2, 2016)

Ray said:


> I agree - anyone should be able to speak any language they want as long as they can find someone to talk to. However, the language of governmental agencies and offices should be English.



I suspect that, as is the case in Canada, should America at some point have a sufficiently large enough population which speaks something other than English as a native language, accommodation will be made.


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## tnthomas (Sep 2, 2016)

Ruthanne said:


> Lon said:
> 
> 
> > I have NO FEAR------------I can envisage however a   situation where a Muslim that follows Sharia Law commits a offense that   is punishable by our legal system and try to use his religious beliefs   as a defense (AND WINS) This has already been the case in some places.   Stonning an adultress---how barbaric.
> ...





This is Lon's perception of the direction that the nation's legal environment is heading.

First it was the Twinkie defense, where a homophobic criminal defendant argues he suffered diminished capacity as a result of his consumption of Twinkies.

Later on, someone wins $2.7 million in punitive damages for spilling hot coffee in their lap.

So, with soulless, opportunistic lawyers willing frivolous lawsuits, and depraved liberal judges hearing such criminal and civil cases, it just follows that at some point some Muslim will prevail in the type of case that Lon describes.


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## Carla (Sep 2, 2016)

Lon said:


> I have NO FEAR------------I can envisage however a situation where a Muslim that follows Sharia Law commits a offense that is punishable by our legal system and try to use his religious beliefs as a defense (AND WINS) This has already been the case in some places. Stonning an adultress---how barbaric.



While it's always good to be aware of our surroundings, worrying about all the what "ifs" in life can make us a little crazy, don't you think? They still must conform to our laws here as far as I am aware.


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## Warrigal (Sep 2, 2016)

Ray said:


> I agree - anyone should be able to speak any language they want as long as they can find someone to talk to. However, the language of governmental agencies and offices should be English.


Fully agree with this position and would want to add that government agencies, offices, hospitals etc make provision for interpreter services where necessary because the newest arrivals may need some  help. I notice in my doctor's surgery a sign on the wall advertising a phone number that will allow over the phone interpretation when needed.


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## Lon (Sep 2, 2016)

Norway,Sweden, Denmark, Germany have had no end of problems with Muslim immigrants. Can we learn something from this? The U.S. has enough problems as it is.


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## Shalimar (Sep 2, 2016)

Lon said:


> Norway,Sweden, Denmark, Germany have had no end of problems with Muslim immigrants. Can we learn something from this? The U.S. has enough problems as it is.




We have 25,000 new Syrian refugees. It is working out well.


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## tnthomas (Sep 2, 2016)

Ray said:


> I agree - anyone should be able to speak any language they want as long as they can find someone to talk to. However, the language of governmental agencies and offices should be English.


 
California conducts business with the Public in several languages, and pays employees a bilingual pay differential for their translation services in given in Spanish, Chinese (Mandarin) and                  Tagalog (Filipino).


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## Carla (Sep 2, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> Chicago is diverse.. and is a "city of neighborhoods"...   We have a specific neighborhood for nearly every nationality and ethnic group.  It's human nature to want to be with people and a culture that is familiar to you.  It's normal to want to be able to communicate in your native language.  True assimilation generally does not occur until the 2nd generation.  The children of immigrants will be the ones to assimilate.   My  great grandparents came from Germany.  They lived in a German speaking neighborhood.  My great grandparents never really did pick up English well.. However my grandparents DID.. and my parents did not speak any German beyond a few words and phrases.   Why do people think Hispanics must speak English and assimilate on DAY ONE??    Seriously.. it seems to be a different standard being espoused.




Actually, the assimilation issue may vary. Some people do this quite well, others have more of a struggle. I have several family members that did quite well though they haven't lost their accents. They did learn the language fairly quickly but it is a process that does take time. They have assimilated quite well and are American in every sense.

I can understand the difficulty in learning a language later in life. If I immigrated to another country, I would accept that I would need to learn the language. It doesn't happen overnight and requires the help of others. I worked among people from all over the world and at times, there were language barriers. But the longer they were here, the better they got. It isn't easy. They had English classes at work and even helped  to get rid of foreign accents. I certainly do not expect anyone to speak English on day one but I do think they should be trying along with our help. They do have classes locally in the high schools.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 3, 2016)

The immigration wave back in the late 1800's early 1900's when most of our ancestors arrived, was primarily Europeans..  They immigrated en masse and ended up flocking together in neighborhoods.    There were Italian neighborhood, German neighborhoods, Polish , Lithuanian, Greek, every ethnic group.   There were radio stations broadcasting in Polish and other languages..  Newspapers.... Stores.... etc..  

This is not unlike what Hispanic immigrants are doing..  Older immigrants are not inclined to learn English because they are able to live within their familiar culture here..  I'm not saying they shouldn't attempt to learn.. but DEMANDING it?  How can you do that?  The Kids will though... and by the time THEY have kids.. full  assimilation will be complete..


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## Warrigal (Sep 3, 2016)

> Older immigrants are not inclined to learn English because they are able to live within their familiar culture here..  I'm not saying they shouldn't attempt to learn.. but DEMANDING it?  How can you do that?  The Kids will though... and by the time THEY have kids.. full  assimilation will be complete..



Exactly the same as happens in Australia. Assimilation happens in its own time and cannot be forced.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 3, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Exactly the same as happens in Australia. Assimilation happens in its own time and cannot be forced.



I'm not sure why the Hispanic wave of immigrants should be held to standards different than other cultures were.  My grandmother arrived in the States at age 11...  She went to "German School" in her neighborhood.. and was taught English... but learned in German.. UNTIL she could successfully learn in English.


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## Sunny (Sep 3, 2016)

Lon, part of me admires your courage for casting your extreme right wing philosophy into these waters, knowing full well what kind of reaction you will be getting.

Part of me suspects that your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek, and you are having "a bit of fun," although it's a pretty nasty kind of fun.

And part of me (well, I did say "part," not "half") recognizes the irrational fears that seem to drive the conservative mentality these days. If your sentiments are sincere, that is.

I will assume the last to be the case, and will answer seriously, giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are serious. The idea you have expressed in this thread is reeking with irrational fear: 



> _I do have a problem with admitting those that MAY be detrimental to the continuation of our country and society by following religious laws that conflict with our Federal & State laws.
> 
> ------------I can envisage however a situation where a Muslim that follows Sharia Law commits a offense that is punishable by our legal system and try to use his religious beliefs as a defense (AND WINS) This has already been the case in some places.
> 
> ...



The arguments offered by the conservatives always have this ring of "(shudder) the next thing you know, so-and-so will happen."  Instead of looking squarely at the world as it is, and dealing with real problems if and when they arise, there is always this scare tactic. Gay marriage? Unisex bathrooms? 
Allow four-letter words on TV? Teach evolution in schools? Provide the basic necessities of life for the destitute? A generation ago: integrated classrooms?  Oh my Lord, what is the world coming to?

As for that idea that their religion would preclude lying about Sharia beliefs, all I can say is go back and read the thread where I posted Tom Lehrer's Irish Ballad. I don't think you are really as naive as that; it was probably a disingenuous attempt at "gotcha."  

Anyway, you did provoke a nice, juicy discussion, and for that I thank you.


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## Sunny (Sep 3, 2016)

Assimilation into English usually takes one generation or less. It cannot be forced, and does not need to be. Kids always want to speak the majority language.


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## Ray (Sep 3, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> The immigration wave back in the late 1800's early 1900's when most of our ancestors arrived, was primarily Europeans..  They immigrated en masse and ended up flocking together in neighborhoods.    There were Italian neighborhood, German neighborhoods, Polish , Lithuanian, Greek, every ethnic group.   There were radio stations broadcasting in Polish and other languages..  Newspapers.... Stores.... etc..
> 
> This is not unlike what Hispanic immigrants are doing..  Older immigrants are not inclined to learn English because they are able to live within their familiar culture here..  I'm not saying they shouldn't attempt to learn.. but DEMANDING it?  How can you do that?  The Kids will though... and by the time THEY have kids.. full  assimilation will be complete..



I like the theory however the reality of one growing up with the language of their parents being used in their school and kids being told they cannot wear t-shirts with the American flag for fear of offending Mexicans does not set a path towards assimilation. 

I am not blaming the kids for thinking that they are still in "the old counrty". I blame the aldult who set up such a climate.


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## Carla (Sep 3, 2016)

tnthomas said:


> I rather enjoy Lon's "stir-the-pot" threads, and I suspect that he enjoys the notoriety as well.



I am not sure if it is to wake us up to what some people in this country actually believe or he is just old school and unwilling to open his mind and be flexible to the world as it is today. If it is the latter, I feel sorry for him because with deep rooted hatred, there is little one can accomplish except for misery. I think Lon is quite intelligent and is most likely conservative but not in agreement with this underground Tea Party movement. We can't go back in time, but it would be nice to restore the sanity in our country by returning to our principles and stop trying to maneuver around the constitution. I doubt the authors intended it as a document for our legislators to outslick one another. If they would just dedicate their time to be in Congress, reading, debating, negotiating, you know, the job they signed up for--we might not be where we are today!


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## Lon (Sep 3, 2016)

Carla said:


> I am not sure if it is to wake us up to what some people in this country actually believe or he is just old school and unwilling to open his mind and be flexible to the world as it is today. If it is the latter, I feel sorry for him because with deep rooted hatred, there is little one can accomplish except for misery. I think Lon is quite intelligent and is most likely conservative but not in agreement with this underground Tea Party movement. We can't go back in time, but it would be nice to restore the sanity in our country by returning to our principles and stop trying to maneuver around the constitution. I doubt the authors intended it as a document for our legislators to outslick one another. If they would just dedicate their time to be in Congress, reading, debating, negotiating, you know, the job they signed up for--we might not be where we are today!



Well Carla dear, let me help ya out a bit. Thomas is right & I plead guilty to enjoying STIRRING THE POT. BTW--I consider my self to be a Social Liberal & Fiscal Conservative.


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## tnthomas (Sep 3, 2016)

Lon said:


> Well Carla dear, let me help ya out a bit. Thomas is right & I plead guilty to enjoying STIRRING THE POT. BTW--I consider my self to be a Social Liberal & Fiscal Conservative.



I used to describe my beliefs as "Social Liberal & Fiscal Conservative" as well.    However, I'm not sure that the label "Conservative" means the same thing nowadays as it did 30 years ago.


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## Ray (Sep 3, 2016)

tnthomas said:


> I used to describe my beliefs as "Social Liberal & Fiscal Conservative" as well.    However, I'm not sure that the label "Conservative" means the same thing nowadays as it did 30 years ago.



Oh, gosh, yes. I remeber the Hubert Humphrey days of Liberalism. Now the've changed it to "Progressivism" and are approaching Marxism. ("Marxism" not to be confused with "Communism" - Karl's thinking, not that of "Uncle Joe")


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## Butterfly (Sep 3, 2016)

Ray said:


> I like the theory however the reality of one growing up with the language of their parents being used in their school and kids being told they cannot wear t-shirts with the American flag for fear of offending Mexicans does not set a path towards assimilation.
> 
> I am not blaming the kids for thinking that they are still in "the old counrty". I blame the aldult who set up such a climate.



We've actually seen a lot of this here, where some older Hispanic immigrants don't want their kids to learn English, and actually punish them for doing so.  There was a push a while ago for Spanish only schools -- that didn't get much of anywhere.  In my opinion, if you are going to live in a country (WHATEVER country) your kids are going to have a harder time if they don't learn the prevalent language.  It could cripple them in many career, social, and higher education paths.


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## Manatee (Sep 3, 2016)

There was the family in Arizona.  The daughter refused to marry the man that her father picked out.  The father saw this as dishonoring the family, so he ran her over with his car and killed her.

Do we really need that culture here?


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