# Shoot Down THIS  Incident



## imp (Nov 11, 2015)

Horrible experience for a 13 year old kid, right? Would he be alive, otherwise? Who knows......imp*


"Home Alone Boy, 13, Shoots Suspected Burglar Dead With His Mother’s Gun"

*"A suspected burglar was shot dead by a 13-year-old boy who used his mother’s Colt. 45 pistol to defend himself while home alone.
On seeing a man entering the home through the back the young teen from Charleston, South Carolina, grabbed the gun and fired at him.
An exchange of gunfire in the home ensued, resulting in Lamar Anthwan Brown, 31, (pictured above) receiving three gunshot wounds, while his suspected accomplice Ira Bennett, 28, was later arrested and charged."

"Both suspects had extensive criminal records - Bennett has now been charged with first-degree burglary and possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime."

http://news.yahoo.com/young-boy-13-at-home-alone-shoots-suspected-113457018.html


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## Warrigal (Nov 12, 2015)

Who knows indeed.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 12, 2015)

It it begs the question of why these guys were out of jail as they were career criminals...


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## QuickSilver (Nov 12, 2015)

IF the boy saw the burglars coming in the back.. could he have run out the front and called the cops?  who knows?


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 12, 2015)

I think most would say good for him...


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## Warrigal (Nov 12, 2015)

There are a lot of who knows here.

Since the boy opened fire first it is possible that the burglars might not have attempted to kill him  if he had simply kept quiet. 
IMO it is a miracle that he wasn't the one who died. On the other hand they might have killed him anyway. Who knows?

Who knows what effect this trauma will have on the boy when he is a man. 
Will he feel justified or will he be haunted by knowing that he took a life?
Who knows?

This is not a situation I have ever had to deal with so I certainly don't know.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 12, 2015)

If it were my child I would have preferred he run out the front door if he heard them coming in the back..  or the back door if they were coming in the front..  There was an exchange of fire for crying out loud!   That 13 year old could as well ended up as dead as the burglar.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 12, 2015)

Could have, but he didn't.  Let's just say that he carried the day...


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## Don M. (Nov 12, 2015)

It's pretty hard to find the statistics on how many times a responsible armed citizen defends themselves, and others, against an armed criminal.  This type of activity is usually only reported on the local news, and the FBI is starting to compile the numbers...if you dig deep at the FBI web site.  

There is ONE site, however, that is doing a pretty good job of keeping tabs on these events....the "Dreaded" NRA.  Here is their link, and they have documented hundreds of pages of verifiable events over the past few years.  Judge for yourself.....

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/arm...ibutor=0&contentBuckets=8176&geo=#latest-news


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 12, 2015)

Good for the boy, I'm glad he used the gun and took action.  It would have been a horrible experience for him if he was on the receiving end of a bullet from these armed burglars.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 12, 2015)

Castle Doctrine applies in SC - he was well within his rights to use deadly force against an armed intruder(s).


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## QuickSilver (Nov 12, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Could have, but he didn't.  Let's just say that he carried the day...



Fortunately for him... BUT it could have went the other way, as the burglar was shooting back...   Better to get out of harms way if at all possible.     As I said.. if it were my kid... I'd have told him it would have been much smarter to get out of the house rather than have a shoot out with a criminal..  Now if there was no route of escape.. that would be a different story.. but we don't know that.


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## imp (Nov 12, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> There are a lot of who knows here.
> 
> *Since the boy opened fire first it is possible that the burglars might not have attempted to kill him  if he had simply kept quiet*.
> Conjecture. What _might have, could have, should have, _is immaterial now.
> ...



One further question, if I may. Had the boy killed the criminal using any weapon other than a firearm, would you-all feel a different reaction to this incident?   imp


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## Shalimar (Nov 12, 2015)

I wouldn't feel differently. Dead is dead. I disagree with your statement around the child feeling forever justified.  For most of us taking a life is traumatic. For a child, even more so. He will need counseling, even then it will leave a permanent emotional scar.


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## fureverywhere (Nov 12, 2015)

One report of a handgun preventing a tragedy doesn't cancel out all the weapons whose presence created a tragedy. A good sized loud mouth pup in the yard or house...most reliable security system you can ask for. Of course in theory someone armed could shoot the dog. But the variable on that is the dog barking and then the sound of gunfire...you're drawing a lot of attention to yourself. Even a really desperate intruder will probably skip a house with a dog.


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## imp (Nov 12, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I wouldn't feel differently. Dead is dead. I disagree with your statement around the child feeling forever justified. * For most of us taking a life is traumatic*. For a child, even more so. He will need counseling, even then it will leave a permanent emotional scar.



How do you know this, Shali? For many people, yes. MOST of us, meaning nearly every person, maybe not. For the hunters who kill game, are they "traumatized" by taking those animals' lives? 


We all agree the animals are as important as humans, yet we kill animals without subjection to the trauma of killing a person?   imp


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## Shalimar (Nov 12, 2015)

Hmmm. I have a male friend whose father took him hunting when he was thirteen years old. He has never eaten meat since. Case in point. Obviously he was traumatised by the death of that animal. Both of my children refuse to hunt. I do not hunt 

either.Hunters have a different perspective about animals, just as soldiers are trained to a different perspective re people.  We can quibble over the semantics of most over many, debate the number angels that can fit on the 

head of a pin, if you will, but why? Purely to stir the pot? My original post spoke to the effects on the majority, especially children,  of killing another person. Animals clearly were not part of the original equation, neither have we all agreed as to the 

relative importance of animals to humans.


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## fureverywhere (Nov 12, 2015)

Imp, While I realize the whole point of this thread is to point out an incident where out of sheer luck a child was able to kill a bad guy. But that still doesn't present a strong argument for the second amendment. We all don't think like you or other gun supporters. If I had been a police officer, I could have taught myself to shoot to kill because it might be part of the job description. But in the real world no it would take something drastic for me to take a life.

Naw the centipedes and spiders don't count. But it does bother me when the cats kill birds. It does bother me when my dogs kill or maul creatures that come in our yard. A few years ago a raccoon was out there. In that case they bit him up really bad but he was still alive. Fortunately we still had animal control to dispatch this poor creature. I don't think I could find it in myself to kill him on my own. The whole mentality of hunting escapes me and that's okay.


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## Warrigal (Nov 12, 2015)

My responses in blue.



imp said:


> How do you know this, Shali? For many people, yes. MOST of us, meaning nearly every person, maybe not. For the hunters who kill game, are they "traumatized" by taking those animals' lives?
> 
> Shali knows a lot more than most of us. She counsels people suffering the aftermath of trauma.
> 
> ...


 I do not agree that animals are as important as people.
We can harden ourselves to killing anything, even people. 
The process is called conditioning but it comes at a cost. A psychological cost.


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## BobF (Nov 12, 2015)

Why should he become traumatized and feel guilty.    That will all depend on how his family treats him now and in the future.   He may become proud of being an independent hero for having the courage to shoot it out with some criminals and win the shoot out.   I think he did well.    Had it been me, I don't know what I would have done.   But I think he did well and needs his families support.   No trauma needed.


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## imp (Nov 12, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> .... The whole mentality of hunting escapes me and that's okay.



It does escape me, also, except as amended as a need to survive, i.e., food. I have never hunted in my entire life, though I have used firearms to shoot at targets since age 12. I had the shooters' skills and have no doubt, that had an armed intruder presented a lethal threat to myself or a family member, even back then, I would have used those skills, if the circumstances allowed and dictated it. Haunted by such experience? Not certain, but at 7 or 8 I watched my Dad drown all 4 of my cat's kittens one by one, an experience which did haunt after the fact, but driven to traumatic level? Nah.

The fact is, that under certain circumstances, an individual posing the threat of possible death to an innocent other, invites the ultimate penalty. Certain circumstances invite or dictate, human death.   imp


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## 911 (Nov 12, 2015)

Let's just say it worked out in the kid's favor "this time."


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## Shalimar (Nov 12, 2015)

Jeez Imp, did you have to mention the kitten drowning thing? If it did not traumatise you that is not to your credit. Guess you
are not much of an animal lover. It certainly traumatised me, and I suspect, many other animal lovers on this forum. In future, a little sensitivity around such subjects would be appreciated I am certain. As for my knowledge around causal links promoting
trauma, hopefully decades of experience have taught me something, unless you are suggesting I am incompetent, my friend?


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## fureverywhere (Nov 12, 2015)

Something to be considered as well. On TV and the big screen...bad guy gets shot and falls over, yup that's it bad guy is now dead or immobile. Not to be ghoulishly graphic from a medically realistic standpoint. A clear direct head shot and the bad guy is going down, if not dead at least in a very bad way. But virtually any other part of your body can sustain even multiple bullet wounds and you might still be functioning...as in if you are a bad guy and amped up enough...being shot multiple times you can still shoot back. Maybe if you hit a big bone like their thigh, they will probably fall down. But if they still have their weapon in reach they can still shoot from the ground. One shot doesn't always magically disable someone. And it's taking aim, if you're hunting a deer obviously you have a big advantage. But a bad guy isn't there placidly grazing in front of you.


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## fureverywhere (Nov 12, 2015)

And as far as the kittens...Imp, jeez...the nurse has your pills ready, now be a good boy. My mother used to relate how every Spring she was allowed a cat and every Fall they just ran off...until my grandmother fell in love with the cat too. That was the one she was allowed to keep. Everything suggests my grandfather was out shooting a cat every Fall. It happened fifty years before I was born and still gives me chills.


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## Shalimar (Nov 12, 2015)

Bob, if you doubt the reality of trauma incurred by young men and women who have had to take the lives of others, i politely extend  you an invitation to  sit in my office sometime. I counsel both vets and civilians who have been so affected. A righteous killing is still a killing, and many people are severely affected. Police officers also.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 12, 2015)

This mother who was breastfeeding her baby in her own home, although injured from shots, was able to survive a break-in to her home by armed intruders.  Her infant was not harmed. 

 It's good that this woman had a gun and was smart enough to use it, it may have saved her life and the life of her baby.  I say it's good for all those who choose to protect themselves in their own homes to be able to do so, a call to 911 and the wait for the police to arrive after the long detailed phone call to the operator may have lost these two precious innocent lives.  http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/09/us/breast-feeding-mom-home-intruders-charlotte/





> CNN)A man has been charged in the home invasion and shooting of a North Carolina mom last week.
> 
> Semantha Bunce, 21, a combat medic in the National Guard, was in her Charlotte home breast-feeding her 4-month-old son in her bedroom when intruders barged in Tuesday, November 3, according to CNN affiliate WSOC.
> 
> ...


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## imp (Nov 12, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Jeez Imp, did you have to mention the kitten drowning thing? If it did not traumatise you that is not to your credit. Guess you
> are not much of an animal lover. It certainly traumatised me, and I suspect, many other animal lovers on this forum. In future, a little sensitivity around such subjects would be appreciated I am certain. As for my knowledge around causal links promoting
> trauma, hopefully decades of experience have taught me something, unless you are suggesting I am incompetent, my friend?



I am suggesting nothing more than the fact that I was at an early age exposed to one of the much lesser desirable "facts of life", witnessed it, digested it, tried to understand it, and was not "ruined forever". Was the Old Man remiss? Should he not have allowed me to observe, or perhaps not disposed of the kittens at all? He grew up on a farm, where the killing of animals was a normal, accepted thing. My god, if some of you ever saw a slaughterhouse, or livestock feedyard, I cannot imagine the permanent harm that would be done. 

Have you awareness that in the rural, agricultural areas, daily reports include the numbers of animals slaughtered? Do you have any idea of the numbers? It even shocked me, back in  Missouri. Typically, hogs, > 250,000 DAILY. Beef cattle, > 150,000 DAILY. 

I guess that must be necessary to support the export needs to feed the world's hungry?    imp


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## Shalimar (Nov 12, 2015)

Do not speak to this survivor of the harsh realities of life Imp! Have you forgotten what I have shared with you about my childhood? Yes your father was wrong to unnecessarily expose you to such things. Do  you really think you have made it to 

your seventies without incurring any trauma whatsoever? With respect, I doubt that very much. As for animals as food, we eat far too much meat protein as it is. I have seen things far more grisly than a slaughterhouse, I guarantee you would be 

traumatised by them now Imp--even though you are no longer a child but a mature adult.


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## Warrigal (Nov 12, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> This mother who was breastfeeding her baby in her own home, although injured from shots, was able to survive a break-in to her home by armed intruders.  Her infant was not harmed.
> 
> It's good that this woman had a gun and was smart enough to use it, it may have saved her life and the life of her baby.  I say it's good for all those who choose to protect themselves in their own homes to be able to do so, a call to 911 and the wait for the police to arrive after the long detailed phone call to the operator may have lost these two precious innocent lives.  http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/09/us/breast-feeding-mom-home-intruders-charlotte/


I've never been in this situation but this bit puzzles me



> As the intruders broke into the home and opened fire, Bunce fired back with her own weapon.



Why would intruders break into a home and open fire? That doesn't sound like best practice for a burglar.
Also, why would they then rush into the bedroom and open fire at a mother with a baby at the breast?
That doesn't sound like best practice either.

I reckon they might just have fired at a woman who was pointing a gun at them, or who had already opened fire at them.

Methinks the newspaper report is a bit short of pertinent details.


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## Ina (Nov 12, 2015)

Some people grow up in situations that demanded they develope a stronger sense of self defense, it is a part of survival for many.  I grew up in a world that was very predatory, and if you didn't develope your abilities to defend yourself, you ended up a victim.  

I've have had to protect myself with a gun.  I was lucky, and the police showed up before anything serious happened, but I'm positive that if I hadn't had a gun to protect myself, I wouldn't have survived. 

I was raised by a military family, and some even went into the police force, so I was brought up to respect guns. I hunted from an early age.  Hunting put food on our table when my family couldn't find work, or there just wasn't enough to go around. 

It is a totally different view point than what most people are raised with today.


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## BobF (Nov 12, 2015)

I won't argue with you about people being traumatized at all.   It does happen to many.   Have you never met anyone that was proud of his actions?    Maybe a military person that did some great things that he was proud of?    I am some how sure that he would be proud of that.   How about that US Army person in Europe that spent a day and killed many.   He became a national hero and there was even a movie made about his adventures.   I just can not remember his name right off.   Someone on here probably will.  No guarantee that the 13 year old will be traumatized if he is proud of what he did.


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## Shalimar (Nov 12, 2015)

Ina, I would hunt also if it was the only way to feed my family. I would also thank the animal for the gift of it's life to feed us, and burn sage and sweet grass in it's honour.


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## Warrigal (Nov 12, 2015)

I wouldn't hesitate to kill an animal to feed myself or my family if things were desperate. 
I would prefer starvation to cannibalism but who knows what we are capable of in extremis.

I would plunge a knife deep into the chest of someone who was seriously threatening my family, and I would twist the knife.

However, I don't spend every day of my life preparing for such a scenario.
I don't obsess about killing animals or people.

I do eat meat but insist on regulation of slaughter houses to keep the standards high.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 12, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> I reckon they might just have fired at a woman who was pointing a gun at them, or who had already opened fire at them.
> 
> Methinks the newspaper report is a bit short of pertinent details.



Even if that was the case, it doesn't matter Warrigal.  She became aware of two intruders who broke into her home.  She reacted to the emergency to protect herself and her child, rather than cower in the bedroom waiting to be possibly beaten and executed.  She acted to save her own life and the life of her baby, she did the right thing and is alive to talk about it.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 12, 2015)

BobF said:


> Why should he become traumatized and feel guilty.    That will all depend on how his family treats him now and in the future.   He may become proud of being an independent hero for having the courage to shoot it out with some criminals and win the shoot out.   I think he did well. But I think he did well and needs his families support.   No trauma needed.



I agree Bob, why would he be traumatized to protecting himself against an intruder, he did do well and I'm sure he's happy he lived through the whole ordeal and will speak of it proudly.



Ina said:


> Some people grow up in situations that demanded they develope a stronger sense of self defense, it is a part of survival for many.  I grew up in a world that was very predatory, and if you didn't develope your abilities to defend yourself, you ended up a victim.
> 
> I've have had to protect myself with a gun.  I was lucky, and the police showed up before anything serious happened, but I'm positive that if I hadn't had a gun to protect myself, I wouldn't have survived.
> 
> ...



You're so right Ina, and you're not the only one who was raised in America prepared and self-sufficient.  I've never had to go hunting, but would with no problem if I needed the food, those living in rural or remote areas have been doing this since the beginning of time.  I was raised in a big city, no guns in my household, but I am completely in favor of gun ownership and use in a responsible manner.  I have a gun and never had to use it for protection, but it's there and ready if the time comes...hopefully it never will, so occasional target practice will be all for me.

Glad you're still with us Ina, and your gun gave you some needed leverage in a threatening situation.


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## Shalimar (Nov 12, 2015)

Why is it not possible to be proud of protecting oneself  and still be traumatised by the necessity? The two things are not mutually exclusive after all. There is no shame in being upset over causing the death of another, however justified it may be. It 

merely speaks to one's humanity, not weakness. This prevalent suck it up hero, view of things often adds unnecessary stress to those individuals civilian and otherwise, already feeling shame over needing help to deal with necessary killings. If 

untreated, critical incident trauma almost always leads to PTSD. I have spent decades dealing with such things, it is beyond time for people to wake up and offer support not denial/judgement to the sufferers.


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## imp (Nov 12, 2015)

*Good Time to Discuss Hollywood Violence Depiction*



Warrigal said:


> *Why would intruders break into a home and open fire?* That doesn't sound like best practice for a burglar.
> Also, why would they then rush into the bedroom and open fire at a mother with a baby at the breast?
> That doesn't sound like best practice either.
> 
> ...



They likely wouldn't. Draws too much attention. UNLESS, they were so "high" it felt like the right thing to do. Wonder which way the article is trying to "slant" the information. Or, if obtained from one side or another, but not all three.

Recalling the scene in "Con Air", a great movie, by the way, where John Cusack, FBI, and Nicholas Cage, Military Special Forces, face each other, each pointing a handgun at the other, debating the outcome in  words. It DON'T HAPPEN.

Numerous times I pass our TV, and a scene is showing out in which several cops are pointing their arms at an armed individual, no shots are fired, and they talk the bad guy out of it. Absolutely unrealistic. When guns are pointed by adversaries _in the real world, _the result is at least one gun being fired immediately.   imp


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## imp (Nov 12, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Do not speak to this survivor of the harsh realities of life Imp! Have you forgotten what I have shared with you about my childhood? Yes your father was wrong to unnecessarily expose you to such things. Do  you really think you have made it to
> 
> your seventies without incurring any trauma whatsoever? With respect, I doubt that very much. As for animals as food, we eat far too much meat protein as it is. I have seen things far more grisly than a slaughterhouse, I guarantee you would be
> 
> traumatised by them now Imp--even though you are no longer a child but a mature adult.



Agreed and understood. Forget not, please, my own experience of finding and having to step over the bodies of two close relatives, to get to the telephone, Shali. I reiterate this because I realized then, deep down inside, that I could go "round the bend", or steel myself to accept the circumstances, as I realized I MUST bring that about for my wife. We went forward unaided and faced most harsh reality alone, and survived.     imp


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## Shalimar (Nov 12, 2015)

Fair enough Imp. I had forgotten your terrible experience. I apologise for my less than sensitive response.


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## imp (Nov 12, 2015)

*A Good Thing!*



Warrigal said:


> I wouldn't hesitate to kill an animal to feed myself or my family if things were desperate.
> I would prefer starvation to cannibalism but who knows what we are capable of in extremis.
> 
> I would plunge a knife deep into the chest of someone who was seriously threatening my family, and I would twist the knife.
> ...



The truly good and respectable thing about this post is that Warri tells what SHE would do "if", what SHE thinks might happen "if"...and so on. Not belittling anyone else's position. 

This is  good.  imp


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## imp (Nov 12, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Fair enough Imp. I had forgotten your terrible experience. I apologise for my less than sensitive response.



Accepted, rather shamefully; should not have brought it up, perhaps.   imp


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## Shalimar (Nov 12, 2015)

No need to apologise Imp. Your experiences here have as much relevance  as mine.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 12, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> However, I don't spend every day of my life preparing for such a scenario.



Then the odds are you will be like the majority of people in such situations - frozen by fear and mislead by your socially-induced reflexes. Just _thinking_ it won't make it so - you HAVE to commit the proper responses to body memory, not just mental ruminations. If you have to take time to _think_ of what to do during a crises, you've lost. This isn't just my own opinion - it has been proven thousands of times by real-world scenarios and is the basis of training of soldiers, police and martial artists.


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## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> Even if that was the case, it doesn't matter Warrigal.  She became aware of two intruders who broke into her home.  She reacted to the emergency to protect herself and her child, rather than cower in the bedroom waiting to be possibly beaten and executed.  She acted to save her own life and the life of her baby, she did the right thing and is alive to talk about it.



I agree that I would have done the same thing if I was faced with a threat to my baby. What I'm not sure of is the way that the incident has been written up. It doesn't quite gel IMO.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 13, 2015)

Well Warri, we never know how accurate and complete reports are that we hear in the news.  Sometimes things that are reported as facts to us, are changed a week later, as they were just speculation.  Sometimes the changes are never reported to us.


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