# Shoot To Kill Looters



## Lon (Apr 27, 2015)

The current looting in Baltimore of the CVS Pharmacy which is occuring at this moment is inexcusable.


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## ~Lenore (Apr 27, 2015)

*Rioting, burning and looting seems to be the way some people believe they should act  to stand up for their rights.  It is very hard for me to understand how they expect any thing good to come of that type of violent and illegal behavior. .*


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## AZ Jim (Apr 27, 2015)

Any otherwise "peaceful" demonstration loses all meaning and creates animosity in the wake.  Looters are opportunistic criminals pure and simple.  BTW I did not imply or mean any item looted or stolen is worthy of lethal force ever.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 27, 2015)

These are also High School kids...   Of course what they are doing is wrong... but they don't have the judgement of adults..  I don't think they should be shot.. because since when does stealing carry a death penalty.    I DO agree that they are not helping the cause by doing this... only turning people against the cause..  Especially people that are on the fence about racism to begin with... it hardens their position and in fact justifies it in their minds.


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## applecruncher (Apr 27, 2015)

Shoot to kill? :wtf: I don't like the idea of anyone being shot (generally speaking). I don't agree people should be shot for stealing (To say looting is inexcusable is redundant.  who said it was excusable?). Unarmed people being shot and killed is what started this mess - although some police (I said SOME) and George Zimmerman would disagree.


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## Davey Jones (Apr 27, 2015)

Lon said:


> The current looting in Baltimore of the CVS Pharmacy which is occuring at this moment is inexcusable.



If you shoot to kill the looters then we are just as bad as them.
The leadership of the black organizations should be put in jail not the looters,I swear the leaders encourages this type of behavior.


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## Lon (Apr 27, 2015)

Looting & Burning a CVS Pharmacy and stealing drugs is a adult criminal activity and should be dealt with harshly and yes shooting them will get the message across to some of the so called high school kids. The National Guard has now been called in and do you think they will not shoot to kill if they are attacked as the police were?


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## applecruncher (Apr 27, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> If you shoot to kill the looters then we are just as bad as them.
> The leadership of the black organizations should be put in jail not the looters,I swear the leaders encourages this type of behavior.



HUH? What leaders of what black organizations are you talking about?  And after you answer that, another question: Did those "leaders" tell anyone to loot and burn? Please cite your source(s).


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## ~Lenore (Apr 27, 2015)

*No, Lon,  they will not shoot at all.  They will stand around and watch just like the National Guard did at Ferguson.  It is racist to shoot them.  You just stand back and hope you do not get hurt or killed until they decide to quit or leave. *


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## applecruncher (Apr 27, 2015)

~Lenore said:


> *No, Lon, they will not shoot at all. They will stand around and watch just like the National Guard did at Ferguson. It is racist to shoot them. You just stand back and hope you do not get hurt or killed until they decide to quit or leave. *




It's racist to shoot black people? Really? Have you paid attention to the news? That's not the prevailing theory, and even if it was it hasn't stopped the shootings. And the National Guard did at lot more than stand and watch at Kent State. They killed unarmed people.

I am so sick of (some) people saying/acting like they don’t know what racism is.  The word is in the dictionary…..it’s not that complicated.  Look it up.  nthego:


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## AZ Jim (Apr 27, 2015)

~Lenore said:


> *No, Lon,  they will not shoot at all.  They will stand around and watch just like the National Guard did at Ferguson.  It is racist to shoot them.  You just stand back and hope you do not get hurt or killed until they decide to quit or leave. *



Look, it's easy.  You DO NOT kill people over property loss.  Wrap your head around that fact and you may be up to date.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 27, 2015)

Lon said:


> Looting & Burning a CVS Pharmacy and stealing drugs is a adult criminal activity and should be dealt with harshly and yes shooting them will get the message across to some of the so called high school kids. The National Guard has now been called in and do you think they will not shoot to kill if they are attacked as the police were?



Oh Yeah..... shooting and killing a bunch of high school kids is REALLY going to get a message across alright.. But it's not going to be the message you hope it will be.     I think the National Guard better NOT start killing these kids..


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## Sunny (Apr 27, 2015)

Lon, "Shooting them will get the message across?"  What message? That their lives are considered worthless by the police?  Isn't the outrage about that what got this thing started in the first place?

Of course, looting is not "excusable."  But there's a huge area between excusing something and shooting a bunch of misguided kids.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 27, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Oh Yeah..... shooting and killing a bunch of high school kids is REALLY going to get a message across alright.. But it's not going to be the message you hope it will be.     I think the National Guard better NOT start killing these kids..



They won't! Kent State was 45 years ago.  Lot's of attitudes have changed since then.


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## applecruncher (Apr 27, 2015)

And Jim Rhodes is dead.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 27, 2015)

Sunny said:


> Lon, "Shooting them will get the message across?"  What message? That their lives are considered worthless by the police?  Isn't the outrage about that what got this thing started in the first place?
> 
> Of course, looting is not "excusable."  But there's a huge area between excusing something and shooting a bunch of misguided kids.



What's unfortunate is that these kids are  looking for excitement... like most High School kids.. what they don't realize is that they are solidifying the racist attitudes they are protesting against..   I can hear all the "See... look how these people are"  "Look how they behave"   "No wonder police kill them"..   being uttered in quite a few White households.  It's not getting the cause any sympathy that's for sure.  People are not going to look at this for the pent up frustration that it is.. they are going to feel more justified in the attitutes they hold.


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## ~Lenore (Apr 27, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> It's racist to shoot black people? Really? Have you paid attention to the news? That's not the prevailing theory, and even if it was it hasn't stopped the shootings. And the National Guard did at lot more than stand and watch at Kent State. They killed unarmed people.
> 
> I am so sick of (some) people saying/acting like they don’t know what racism is.  The word is in the dictionary…..it’s not that complicated.  Look it up.  nthego:



*That was on  Monday, May 4, 1970!  That  was 45 years ago.    I do not understand when we are discussing things  that are happening right now, people have a tendency to bring up things  that happened long ago.    Maybe you are too young to realize how much  our country has changed in those 45 years.  What does Kent State have to  do with what is happening today in Baltimore? 


*


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## applecruncher (Apr 27, 2015)

~Lenore said:


> *That was on Monday, May 4, 1970! That was 45 years ago. I do not understand when we are discussing things that are happening right now, people have a tendency to bring up things that happened long ago. Maybe you are too young to realize how much our country has changed in those 45 years. What does Kent State have to do with what is happening today in Baltimore?
> 
> 
> *



Lenore, I will be 65 yrs old in a few weeks. (This is a Senior Forum )

Actually, I realize a lot of things.  I know exactly how our country has changed, and I also know how much some things have not changed. Again: _I am so sick of (some) people saying/acting like they don’t know what racism is. The word is in the dictionary…..it’s not that complicated. Look it up._


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## Lon (Apr 27, 2015)

*We Ignore, Excuse & Dismiss Criminal Activity*

PROTESTING is not a Criminal Activity but RIOTING and particularly LOOTING is, especially when it involves burning of property, bodily harm to police and firemen. We have some that say Oh Well they are young and don't make good choices, they are poor, they come from single parent situation etc. etc. Gimme a Break will ya. At what point do you accept responsibilty for your actions and pay the consequences?


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## QuickSilver (Apr 27, 2015)

No one is excusing or dismissing..   Yes.. these rioters are breaking the law.. but why do you think the answer is shoot to kill?


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## applecruncher (Apr 27, 2015)

Lon said:


> PROTESTING is not a Criminal Activity but RIOTING and particularly LOOTING is, especially when it involves burning of property, bodily harm to police and firemen. We have some that say Oh Well they are young and don't make good choices, they are poor, they come from single parent situation etc. etc. Gimme a Break will ya. At what point do you accept responsibilty for your actions and pay the consequences?



Okay.  Thanks for sharing.

Time for "Dancing with the Stars". nthego:


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## AprilT (Apr 27, 2015)

You darn libs hush, I'm rooting for shoot to kill, getting my truck loaded up to bring up the rear and help out the troops.  We've been waiting for an opportunity to take out the blacks for some time now.  Lock and load baby, YAHOO!.  Wait, slight problem, I'm black, gosh darn.  Back to seeding my garden on to another cause.

QS, true, the ones doing this, looting committing crimes and acting out violently are their own worst enemy and are just giving fuel to the minds of those who are already harbor certain feelings toward them from the get go, they do need to be handled and frankly the behavior is despicable, but, shooting them, I wonder if that's what the people felt about violent outburst from college kids of the 60's who got out of hand, did they think shoot to kill on those university students who were throwing all kinds of items and damaging property and injuring officers.  Do these same people speak up against the behaviors of the fraternity groups you see weekly on the news behaving badly. Just this past week, we had students, spitting on vets and making a mess of anything associated with honoring these vets, not the same, but, still, no mention.  I can see some cheering on that fraternity group who was singing no ni _ _ ers allowed.  No it's not racist to want this mayhem to stop nor to punish such behavior.  These people who are acting out in such violent ways angers me as much as the next person, there's truly no excuse, but, there's no excuse either for some people who look for these and other such opportunities to vent their hidden feelings when we know it's not just about this particular event.  It's always about events of certain people.


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## Shalimar (Apr 27, 2015)

April, I yearn for a time when our character is judged on it's own merit, rather than on gender or colour/ethnicity. Either we  are all worthy of respect, or none of us are.


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## Jackie22 (Apr 27, 2015)

Lon said:


> PROTESTING is not a Criminal Activity but RIOTING and particularly LOOTING is, especially when it involves burning of property, bodily harm to police and firemen. We have some that say Oh Well they are young and don't make good choices, they are poor, they come from single parent situation etc. etc. Gimme a Break will ya. At what point do you accept responsibilty for your actions and pay the consequences?



That same question could be put to the police that are shooting kids in the back and by killing them with other unnecessary means.


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## drifter (Apr 27, 2015)

Seems awful one sided to me. The white hats have guns, billy clubs, shields, and all the military equipment the army gave them. Perhaps if those who are protesting had guns, a few charcoal lighters, and some small cans of gasoline, and a half dozen UEDs, then we could see some real protests for the killing of the young man whose funeral was carried live today on national television. And with the national guard coming out tonight this could then qualify as a real training exercise or some interesting television. What do you think? Was it Thomas Jefferson who said a revolution now and then might be good for us? Or something like that. Of course this little skirmish(if both sides had guns) doesn't qualify for anything like a revolution, merely a protest. Where's that drum and bugle corp? Just saying what's good for the goose is good for the gander.


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## Lon (Apr 27, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> HUH? What leaders of what black organizations are you talking about?  And after you answer that, another question: Did those "leaders" tell anyone to loot and burn? Please cite your source(s).



These groups are not high school kids, although they may be.

http://www.infowars.com/black-guerr...nd-the-crips-plan-to-take-out-baltimore-cops/


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## Lon (Apr 27, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Oh Yeah..... shooting and killing a bunch of high school kids is REALLY going to get a message across alright.. But it's not going to be the message you hope it will be.     I think the National Guard better NOT start killing these kids..



According to the Press, they are not all kids, kids were initially a part and then  http://www.infowars.com/black-guerr...nd-the-crips-plan-to-take-out-baltimore-cops/


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## Lon (Apr 27, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> No one is excusing or dismissing..   Yes.. these rioters are breaking the law.. but why do you think the answer is shoot to kill?



You don't seem to distinguish between Looting & Rioting Silver---Would you agree that they are not the same.


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## Lon (Apr 27, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> What's unfortunate is that these kids are  looking for excitement... like most High School kids.. what they don't realize is that they are solidifying the racist attitudes they are protesting against..   I can hear all the "See... look how these people are"  "Look how they behave"   "No wonder police kill them"..   being uttered in quite a few White households.  It's not getting the cause any sympathy that's for sure.  People are not going to look at this for the pent up frustration that it is.. they are going to feel more justified in the attitutes they hold.



Wow how things have changed. When  I was in high school and looked for excitement, me and my minority friends would crash all of the 12 movie theaters in our city.in a month time.


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## WhatInThe (Apr 27, 2015)

Shoot To Kill sounds like a deterrent but would be escalation. Self defense only. I'm more worried about the people starting fires and cutting fire hoses at this point. This is terrorism as far as I am concerned because it affects public safety on a massive scale and they are trying to make a political statement-I think. Charge these rioters and provocateurs with some kind of terrorism and this will stop.

I'm also appalled at video of the police throwing rocks at the rioters who threw rocks at them. Really? Loaded to the gills with weaponry, protection and hopefully training the police are throwing rocks/objects at rioters? Is a stone or rock an authorized weapon or method of crowd control?

Also heard the police are tagging rioters with paint balls to be identified later?

The whole mess including the man who lost his life/use of limbs is disgusting.

PEACE!


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## AZ Jim (Apr 27, 2015)

Lon,  You do not seem to understand, kids or adults we do not kill to protect property.  It is just that simple.


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## Lon (Apr 27, 2015)

I just plain disagree Jim. believe in extreme protection of both life and property.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 27, 2015)

Well, good luck with that.


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## jujube (Apr 27, 2015)

Protesters?   Yep, nothing says "_Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen...._" quite like looting and burning a CVS drug store.   These folks aren't "protesters"; they're thugs, looting, rioting and burning thugs and they need to be treated as such.   I'm not much for shooting but I think a little tear gas and some firehoses are called for at this point.


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## WhatInThe (Apr 27, 2015)

jujube said:


> Protesters?   Yep, nothing says "_Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen...._" quite like looting and burning a CVS drug store.   These folks aren't "protesters"; they're thugs, looting, rioting and burning thugs and they need to be treated as such.   I'm not much for shooting but I think a little tear gas and some firehoses are called for at this point.



There won't be any useable fire hoses around if they keep cutting them. Apparently two large building fires right now as well which diverts resources. I think they have water canons on some armored vehicles. National Guard called in. Tanks might tame things.


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## Don M. (Apr 27, 2015)

The thugs that descended on Ferguson, MO. last fall succeeded in turning back racial relations in the St. Louis area by several decades.  Now, its Baltimore's turn.  There have been a couple of developments in the St. Louis area that have not received much media coverage.  In the past few months about 85 police have retired, or quit the force.  St. Louis is having trouble replacing them.  The latest class for new recruits had room for 55 people...29 showed up.  Over time, if this continues, there will be fewer police to respond to emergencies...and those who do respond to calls in the "troubled" sections of the city will obey all speed limits and traffic signs, and maybe even stop for lunch on the way.  Some of the people in these areas may want to be careful about what they wish for...they may just get it.  Perhaps they would feel safer if the drug and street gangs completely took over their neighborhoods.  

There is One Proven way to avoid police brutality...Obey the Laws....and If Stopped, act in a respectful manner, and obey the policeman's instructions.  That should Not be Rocket Science.


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## Butterfly (Apr 27, 2015)

From the pictures I've seen, this is NOT a bunch of high school students acting up.  This is looting and rioting, and it's not just a bunch of kids -- I daresay it's not just even mostly kids.  

I don't agree with shoot to kill over this kind of thing.  But we can't just say this is just a bunch of unruly bunch of kids, either -- it's a violent mob, burning and looting.  This has to be gotten under control -- no shooting to kill, but the cops just can't just stand around and watch this crowd burn down Baltimore burn, either. 

What about all the law abiding citizens who are caught in the middle of this?  I had the misfortune to be caught in the middle of downtown Washington during the Washington, DC and Baltimore riots of '68 (I was just trying to get home from work), and it was the most terrifying, surreal night of my life -- cars burning, buildings burning, people breaking into storefronts and looting, people setting fire to cars in traffic -- it was something out of Dante's Inferno.  

I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but rioting, burning and looting are not acceptable forms of "protest."   How does looting a CVS drugstore help the "cause"?

I give up -- what IS a reasonable way to get this under control???


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## Glinda (Apr 27, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Lon,  You do not seem to understand, kids or adults we do not kill to protect property.  It is just that simple.



I agree.  I fail to see why the age of the looters and rioters is relevant.  They certainly deserve to be punished but not by death.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 27, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> That same question could be put to the police that are shooting kids in the back and by killing them with other unnecessary means.



What was the reason they went after him anyway, did they arrest him, break his spine and kill him just because he was running?  I wish all the protests were peaceful, but I can absolutely understand why they are taking place.  The abuse and murders by out of control police officers has got to stop. 

 Law enforcement is at least starting to wake up and take things seriously, and talking about retraining the younger cops that came out of the academy with a 'this is war, get them before they get us' attitude.  There were officers calling into a radio show saying how trigger happy 'bad' cops are not only a danger to the citizens, but a bad reflection on and danger to the entire police force.

  Some of the older officers who are there to do their jobs to protect and serve, are just as much against this behavior as the communities are.  As far as shooting the looters, that's ridiculous...that would just be them staying the course of taking lives for no good reason.  Something has to change, and the ball is in law enforcement's court.  Each state and city should be proactive in making some much needed changes, IMO.


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## Misty (Apr 27, 2015)

Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake admitted in a press conference on Sunday: that she asked the Baltimore Police Department to “give those who wished to destroy space to do that.”  She has since said she didn't say that, but it shows her saying it 
on video.


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## mitchezz (Apr 28, 2015)

Lon said:


> I just plain disagree Jim. believe in extreme protection of both life and property.




So Lon, if a kid walking past your house threw a brick through your window would you feel it was OK to shoot him?


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## Ameriscot (Apr 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> What's unfortunate is that these kids are  looking for excitement... like most High School kids.. what they don't realize is that they are solidifying the racist attitudes they are protesting against..   I can hear all the "See... look how these people are"  "Look how they behave"   "No wonder police kill them"..   being uttered in quite a few White households.  It's not getting the cause any sympathy that's for sure.  People are not going to look at this for the pent up frustration that it is.. they are going to feel more justified in the attitutes they hold.



Very true, QS.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 28, 2015)

Lon said:


> I just plain disagree Jim. believe in extreme protection of both life and property.



So PROPERTY is more valuable than a life?!!


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> So PROPERTY is more valuable than a life?!!



Well no..... except only certain lives...  apparently.   

This is very sad... it only gives the haters more fuel for their hatred.. and solves nothing..   BUT... peaceful protesting hasn't done much to wake people up to the brutality against blacks either..


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## Ameriscot (Apr 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Well no..... except only certain lives...  apparently.
> 
> This is very sad... it only gives the haters more fuel for their hatred.. and solves nothing..   BUT... peaceful protesting hasn't done much to wake people up to the brutality against blacks either..



Just makes a bad situation worse.  But what is the solution?


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Just makes a bad situation worse.  But what is the solution?




I don't know.... AS...   BUT hating and being blood thirsty... even gleeful at the prospect of shooting and killing certainly has contributed to the problem... and is not the solution.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 28, 2015)

It is interesting to see that the race of the leadership of Baltimore shows how far this country has come even though there is a distance to go...


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## Ameriscot (Apr 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I don't know.... AS...   BUT hating and being blood thirsty... even gleeful at the prospect of shooting and killing certainly has contributed to the problem... and is not the solution.



Hate and anger and violence seems to be exploding!  And then so many think guns are the answer.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 28, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> It is interesting to see that the race of the leadership of Baltimore shows how far this country has come even though there is a distance to go...



Not really following the race.  We are getting news on the riots but that's all.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 28, 2015)

Black female mayor, black police chief, many black police officers, and this has been a big change in many cities...


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Yet... does ANYONE know why Freddie Grey was killed?  What crime was he committing?  What did he do to cause police to severe his spine, and crush his larynx?  Does anyone know?  My guess is he was guilty of running while black.  Ralphy, I don't care what color the mayor is... so long as things like this keep happening, I'm afraid we are in for a long summer of protest and rioting in our cities..


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/04/24/pers-a24.html



> Baltimore has a long history of police brutality, which has resulted in $5.7 million in payouts to victims since 2011. _The Baltimore_ Sun reported that “Victims include a 15-year-old boy riding a dirt bike, a 26-year-old pregnant accountant who had witnessed a beating, a 50-year-old woman selling church raffle tickets, a 65-year-old church deacon rolling a cigarette and an 87-year-old grandmother aiding her wounded grandson.”
> The killing of Gray is reminiscent of a 2005 police murder in the city, in which Dondi Johnson had his spine fractured after he was given an intentional “rough ride” in a police van that arrived at the station in half the time it would have taken if it were driving at the speed limit. His family received a $7.4 million judgment, which was subsequently reduced to $200,000.
> In both cases, police were forced to admit that, contrary to protocol, they did not use seat belts to restrain the handcuffed prisoners. The city of Philadelphia has paid more than $2 million to settle lawsuits alleging that “rough rides” left two people paralyzed.







> Baltimore is emblematic of the enormous decay and deterioration of working-class living standards over the past several decades, leading its population to drop by nearly a third.
> Since 1970 the city has lost more than 84 percent of its manufacturing jobs, while the official poverty rate has hit more than 25 percent. The beginning of this year saw the demolition of the towering L Blast Furnace, once the heart of the Bethlehem Steel mill at Sparrows Point, which employed thousands of workers over the course of a century.
> Baltimore’s affluent city center, containing a world-class university and hospital system, is ringed by scenes of abject poverty; whole neighborhoods of burned-out and abandoned row houses, with tens of thousands in poverty.






> Conditions of social misery are accompanied by extraordinarily brutal and repressive policies directed against the city’s poor. Last year, Baltimore enacted a law fining the parents of children who violate the city’s 9:00 PM curfew up to $500. Advocates for the homeless denounced the curfew, which allows police to detain any young person caught outside after hours, saying it will push the city’s 2,400 homeless youth “farther into the shadows.”
> In perhaps the most draconian attack on the city’s population, the city administration last month announced that it would begin shutting off water to as many as 25,000 poor residents, triggering protests.



Baltimore is a troubled city..  This senseless case of police brutality against Freddy Grey lit the match on a tinderbox.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 28, 2015)

Yes and the punks are cutting the fire hoses...


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## Ken N Tx (Apr 28, 2015)

[h=1]Mother beats son for participating in Baltimore riots[/h]


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Yes and the punks are cutting the fire hoses...



So you believe they should be shot and killed Ralphy?  Just a yes or no please


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Ken N Tx said:


> *Mother beats son for participating in Baltimore riots*



I saw that this morning.... MORE parents should be out their knocking their kids in the heads like her


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## Shalimar (Apr 28, 2015)

Beating children? A deterrent, really? Ask any therapissed about that one. Perhaps that is why he finds rioting acceptable.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 28, 2015)

Under certain conditions when they are trying to kill police officers or are threatening the lives of other people, such as store owners and employees, shooting to wound would certainly slow the mob down, because their parents can't or won't as shown by the only one to try...


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Beating children? A deterrent, really? Ask any therapissed about that one. Perhaps that is why he finds rioting acceptable.



Who said anything about beating children?   THe news showed a mother going after her teenaged son while he was involved in the rioting... She took her hand and took a whack at him on his hoodied head and from what I could hear her say...  and I paraphrase  "What the F$%K are you doing out here involved in this mess?   You ain't got no business out here! and she chased him home...   I applaud her


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 28, 2015)

It seems like there is a clear divide in the black community on how to handle these societal issues, and I applaud the mayor for saying that rioters and looters caught on camera will be punished to the full extent of the law.  This is solution that will eventually solve the problem, strong black civic leadership along with strong black parenting...


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## Ameriscot (Apr 28, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> It seems like there is a clear divide in the black community on how to handle these societal issues, and I applaud the mayor for saying that rioters and looters caught on camera will be punished to the full extent of the law.  This is solution that will eventually solve the problem, strong black civic leadership along with strong black parenting...



Hope so.  Things are getting worse, not better.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 28, 2015)

Enough police power is coming in to stop the unruliness soon.  I remember riding a subway in Washington years ago loaded with white tourists and a lone black woman.  The train stopped at a station and a gang of black teenage boys entered and started swearing and acting in an intimating manner towards the passengers.  The black woman got up and gave them hell and they got off at the next stop.  Many of us thanked her for her intervention and wondered how out of hand things could have got had she hadn't...


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## Ameriscot (Apr 28, 2015)

Tough woman!  They had to get off as she embarrassed them.  Good.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 28, 2015)

Yes, with so many fathers missing the black community is a matriarchal society and these young teen boys respond to strong black women...


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Yes, with so many fathers missing the black community is a matriarchal society and these young teen boys respond to strong black women...



I agree... and even Black leaders know the importance of fathers.  I would have LOVED to see a whole bunch of dads drag their kids home by the ears yesterday.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 28, 2015)

Unfortunately a lot of these boys will grow up and emulate their fathers, missing...


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## Don M. (Apr 28, 2015)

Way back in 2007....during the campaigns leading to the 2008 Presidential election...Obama was asked what he attributed the violence in the Black communities to.  Without hesitation, he replied " The total breakdown of the inner city family structure".  He was quite correct.  Over 70% of the young Black kids are born to single mothers...many never knowing who their real father is.  Most of these mothers are struggling just to get by, and these kids are being raised on the Street, with no Fatherly guidance and discipline to mold their lives.  Kids will Always make the wrong choices, and it takes some strong parenting to raise them to be solid citizens.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Don M. said:


> Way back in 2007....during the campaigns leading to the 2008 Presidential election...Obama was asked what he attributed the violence in the Black communities to.  Without hesitation, he replied " The total breakdown of the inner city family structure".  He was quite correct.  Over 70% of the young Black kids are born to single mothers...many never knowing who their real father is.  Most of these mothers are struggling just to get by, and these kids are being raised on the Street, with no Fatherly guidance and discipline to mold their lives.  Kids will Always make the wrong choices, and it takes some strong parenting to raise them to be solid citizens.



Ok...  You have stated a problem.   I think we all know about this problem..  So what's the solution?


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## Lon (Apr 28, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> So Lon, if a kid walking past your house threw a brick through your window would you feel it was OK to shoot him?



Of course not.


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## Don M. (Apr 28, 2015)

"OK...You have stated a problem...what's the solution?"

The ultimate solution is going to have to be a change in the Mind Set of these people.  They are going to have to take responsibility for the children they "sire".  With the reliability of today's DNA testing, for example, a father should be easily identifiable, and that individual should be required to provide proper support for his "spawn".  Failing to do so, IMO, should result in a free Vasectomy.  If these clowns want to live like rabbits, and create an endless supply of Throw Away children, I don't see where society has any obligation to support their Animal Instincts.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Don M. said:


> "OK...You have stated a problem...what's the solution?"
> 
> The ultimate solution is going to have to be a change in the Mind Set of these people.  They are going to have to take responsibility for the children they "sire".  With the reliability of today's DNA testing, for example, a father should be easily identifiable, and that individual should be required to provide proper support for his "spawn".  Failing to do so, IMO, should result in a free Vasectomy.*  If these clowns want to live like rabbits, and create an endless supply of Throw Away children, I don't see where society has any obligation to support their Animal Instincts*.



So that's your solution..  Sterilize them against their will...   Not to mention... do you realize how incredibly offensive your post is?

So.. that said..   It seems than that women usually carry the biggest responsibility for birth control..  That's not racial... It's a fact...and the fact remains that in all races, women have the most to lose from unplanned parenthood..   It's been pretty much established that the more education a woman receives, the less likely she is to have a child out of wedlock.. 







Yet, Public education is always on the chopping block.. and more and more money spent on privatization of education.. almost ensuring that troubled kids from troubled families get short changed.   Also, even if a kid makes it through High School, college education is pretty much out of reach for the poor.  Washington has refused to address that, and have continued to raise interest rates on student loans.    Perhaps starting with education may be a beginning of a solution?


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Not mention... there has been a huge loss of jobs over the last 35 years... mostly due to bad trade agreements and legislation favorable to allowing corporations to move production to other countries..






Time was, a young person could get a job in a factory and support a family..   He could get on right out of high school.   Not now.. Most good paying jobs require a college degree.. or at least some college. 

SO... we take lack of education... along with lack of good paying jobs in areas like manufacturing... and we have what we have now.   pockets of poverty and no family structure..   I think the solution lies in getting education and jobs into the poor areas...  and NOT minimum wage jobs...  GOOD paying jobs...


How do people take responsibilities and "pull themselves up by their boot straps" when we have taken away the boots?


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## WhatInThe (Apr 28, 2015)

Too many issues here for one person or one solution to change things. One of the big tips for that Baltimore was brewing was introduction of a massive camera/surveillance program. It's shows desperation on the part of the public and police. It also helps rationalize the ends justifies the means. Now it becomes a game of gotcha.

Ironically, the mayor said any one caught on camera rampaging will be prosecuted as they absolutely should be. But did the cameras prevent or even help the police during the rioting. The cameras are for after the fact punishment. If they want prevention they need better trained police and more in the community policing. And the community itself as many did come out against the criminals & crime.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

We have the video of the police folding Freddie Grey up like a pretzel... or as one witness described it like a piece of origami, with his feet touching the back of his head likely breaking his spine... and we still don't know what he did.. or what instigated that.. and no one is held accountable..  So what do you expect?


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## BobF (Apr 28, 2015)

In a few days, or even weeks, it is hard to hold a person responsible for anything.   It all needs to come up in meetings to have charges posted.    Everyone, everyone, is allowed this grace time for charges and proofs to be debated and determined to be true and fair to all involved.   Once those charges are determined to be true then legal charges will be made and appropriate actions taken.   

Instant justice is a big problem in too many cases.


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## BobF (Apr 28, 2015)

When I was young there were such things as Orphans Homes.   One was near where I grew up.   It was a small city of itself, had farm lands, laundry, cafeteria, medical center, schools for young and up through high school.   All the children came out disciplined and educated.   Why that approach for taking children off the streets was ended, I never heard.   It seemed to do a good job for the children and the community in general.   My Junior High school principal was a graduate of the  Orphans Home.   So they did come out proper and interested in doing better.

If we don't teach these current generations proper and respectable ways to live, there will never be any improvement in their life styles.

I may have the name of that operation wrong, I called it Orphans Home and it may have been Juniors Home.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Not mention... there has been a huge loss of jobs over the last 35 years... mostly due to bad trade agreements and legislation favorable to allowing corporations to move production to other countries..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very important aspect to point out QuickSilver, there has been a great income inequality between rich and poor, and businesses that once offered jobs in these areas, have moved out or overseas.  The people affected have lost hope, even the ones who try hard to make ends meet, often fight a losing battle.

  I heard this author speak about the loss of the American Dream, and how we have to work to get it back for everyone, not only the rich, who have "airbags" around their kids.  When their kid wrecks the car, gets strung out on drugs, or gets involved with an assault or burglary charge, mommy and daddy have plenty of money to bail them out of jail, get them good lawyers, send them off to a fancy rehab facility, etc.  The poor citizens in America don't have that option, and they don't have it due to circumstances in their cities that are out of their control. 

 I heard that the Baltimore police department paid out large amounts of money to settle past cases of abuse, all that money could have been spent on community centers, programs, etc. that would help guide the young people not to resign themselves to failure due to their environment. All that past abusive behavior by the police, which they had to settle on, has created what is taking place today.  

Just because these kids don't have fathers in the picture, doesn't mean they should be kicked to the curb and written off as losses.  The single mother who is out working all day to pay the bills and struggling to get through life with her family, should be able to get a job with decent pay.  The folks more well off can devote some time to mentor a teen and help them to feel hope again.

http://robertdputnam.com/

http://robertdputnam.com/about-our-kids/our-kids-in-the-news/


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## applecruncher (Apr 28, 2015)

> I may have the name of that operation wrong, I called it Orphans Home and it may have been Juniors Home.



The term was Children's Home back where I grew up, or Orphanage.  Sure there are some success stories, but there was also lots of abuse. Everyone raised in such places does not automatically become a shining success story.  But kids can't just be taken away and herded to an orphanage.  Aside from the legal aspect, there are financial and monitoring considerations.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

BobF said:


> When I was young there were such things as Orphans Homes.   One was near where I grew up.   It was a small city of itself, had farm lands, laundry, cafeteria, medical center, schools for young and up through high school.   All the children came out disciplined and educated.   Why that approach for taking children off the streets was ended, I never heard.   It seemed to do a good job for the children and the community in general.   My Junior High school principal was a graduate of the  Orphans Home.   So they did come out proper and interested in doing better.
> 
> If we don't teach these current generations proper and respectable ways to live, there will never be any improvement in their life styles.
> 
> I may have the name of that operation wrong, I called it Orphans Home and it may have been Juniors Home.



So let me understand Bob... To solve the problem of undisciplined children running the streets,  these children of single parent homes should be rounded up and put in homes.. like you describe.. ?     If so... then I guess you would not mind a big tax increase to PAY for housing, feeding, educating, clothing as well as the medical and dental care these kids need?


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## AprilT (Apr 28, 2015)

BobF said:


> When I was young there were such things as Orphans Homes.   One was near where I grew up.   It was a small city of itself, had farm lands, laundry, cafeteria, medical center, schools for young and up through high school.   All the children came out disciplined and educated.   Why that approach for taking children off the streets was ended, I never heard.   It seemed to do a good job for the children and the community in general.   My Junior High school principal was a graduate of the  Orphans Home.   So they did come out proper and interested in doing better.
> 
> If we don't teach these current generations proper and respectable ways to live, there will never be any improvement in their life styles.
> 
> I may have the name of that operation wrong, I called it Orphans Home and it may have been Juniors Home.



Unfortunately a number of them ended, not sure why all, but, several ended due to a lot of abuse seeping in.  Here in Florida, they're still digging up bones of the youth who disappeared at the hands of some of these places.  Unfortunately this abuse wasn't limited to just reform school type settings, one home where a group of nuns were at the helm, were convicted of molestation.

Everyone keeps acting like we live in a society of accountable adults when there's really a veil over the eyes of most, the kids know that there's little to respect as so much corruption  is rampant, just prettied up and sugar coated.  

What the exact solutions are, I don't have an exact answer, but, it has to start with each person doing their own part to stop escalating and projecting the negative toward an entire group of people based on the acts of certain individuals.  I've said it before, I can point out the worst of the worst of all of what ails this society bit by bit and what's pulling it apart and it sure isn't just what's going on in the black families, there have been abandonment issues in other groups for years  black, white and other, the catholic churches have the food bank rolls to prove it especially those fathers that drank their paychecks away while the families starved.

What is going on in this Baltimore community is deplorable, the curfew is a start, I hope they will be able to enforce it, I think more people in that community, those people with a vested interest in it's survival no matter the color of their skin need to come up with a plan, more parents and other adults definitely need to get off their backsides and take charge of their family members they spot out there and handle the situation.  

Maybe some stricter laws need to be in place all around when it comes to kids roaming these streets if some adults won't handle these kids, I have some not so pc thoughts on the whole procreation thing, but, I'll not push that button, but, yes, China, does come to mind on that one.  Some of us really shouldn't be parents, since we aren't actually parenting.  The details to work out that call would be a problem though.

But back to the homes for parentless or children needing others to take over guardianship of some sort and why it's been a problem to so extent.  The clergy doesn't have the respect from youth as it once may have and frankly, I have complete understanding how this comes to be for many.  Again always goes to listen to what I say, avert your eyes from what I actually do, but todays people have eyes everywhere, except for those with their head in the sand.  As with other matters, the whole of the clergy isn't tainted, but, for the kids who find themselves at the mercy of people such as those in this story, the numbers are way too high to not understand why so many end up worse off than when they went in.


One of the places where the bodies are still being counted

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2719211/1st-set-remains-IDd-Florida-reform-school.html


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## QuickSilver (Apr 28, 2015)

Somehow, I don't believe the answer is taking peoples kids away from them... OR forced sterilization, OR forced abortion.   This isn't China...  The answer is Education.. the answer is good paying jobs.. when people can make more money doing illegal things.. than they can working 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs.. what do you expect them to pick?    We want more Black men to be involved fathers?.... then let's stop loading up prisons with them for ridiculous things. Close the school to prison pipeline we have now so private corporations running the prisons can make a profit.   If we can't get Corporations to stop sending jobs overseas.. let's put people to work building and repairing our infrastructure.   There are things that could be done if Washington would just work... and stop being steam rolled by lobbyists and special interests.


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## AprilT (Apr 28, 2015)

No, I didn't mean to imply that about children being taken away from their parents, having lived that experience, that's the last thing I meant.  I was just responding to what happened to some of these places where kids that had no where to go disappeared to.  I hyperventilated just researching orphanages, so no last thing I would suggest be done, but, I get that there are some types of disciplinary academies that do serve a purpose just as the military has served many a wayward person well in some cases..


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## Misty (Apr 28, 2015)

View attachment 17530

Here is what's left of the CVS store. My heart goes out to all the business owners, who have lost everything and the families that lived above the burned businesses and are now homeless....so Very, Very, Sad reading their stories and how they worked hard and now it's all gone.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 28, 2015)

The President spoke on the issues, and he made a lot of sense, I agree with all he said .  Pointed out some of the things we've already spoken about here regarding the problems and frustrations of the people.  Video here.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/28/obama-baltimore_n_7162568.html




> Obama said the violent protests "distracted" from the largely peaceful protests over the weekend."They were constructive and they were thoughtful," he said of those demonstrations. "And frankly it didn't get much attention. And one burning building will be looped on television ... and the thousands of demonstrators who did it the right way have been lost in the discussion."
> 
> It comes up, it seems like, once a week now. Or once every couple of weeks. So I think its pretty understandable why the leaders of civil rights organizations, but more importantly moms and dads, might start saying this is a crisis. What I'd say is this has been a slow rolling crisis."
> "This is not new," he said. "And we shouldn't pretend this is new."
> ...


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 28, 2015)

Misty said:


> Here is what's left of the CVS store. My heart goes out to all the business owners, who have lost everything and the families that lived above the burned businesses and are now homeless....so Very, Very, Sad reading their stories and how they worked hard and now it's all gone.



My heart goes out to all the business that have been looted and burned, and all the good people that rioting like this affects, it's heartbreaking.  I've seen many on the news helping with the clean up and speaking about some positive things that need to be done in the community.  As President Obama said, this is not new and we shouldn't say it is, it's been a slow rolling crisis in many urban communities across America, and it needs to be addressed.

He also mentioned how the news ignores all the thoughtful and peaceful demonstrations, because putting the CVS store and the burning cars on the 'loop' is the drama that draws viewers, that's what sells on these news networks.  It's discouraging that you have to hunt down any reports of anything positive going on in Baltimore, by all the good concerned citizens there.



> _Obama said the violent protests "distracted" from the largely peaceful protests over the weekend.__"They were constructive and they were thoughtful," he said of those demonstrations. "And frankly it didn't get much attention. And one burning building will be looped on television ... and the thousands of demonstrators who did it the right way have been lost in the discussion."_


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yet... does ANYONE know why Freddie Grey was killed?  What crime was he committing?  What did he do to cause police to severe his spine, and crush his larynx?  Does anyone know?  My guess is he was guilty of running while black.





SeaBreeze said:


> What was the reason they went after him anyway, did they arrest him, break his spine and kill him just because he was running?



Guess you must be right QS, I had the same question but can only hear the crickets.  I thought it was because I really haven't been watching that much news this past week, and thought I might have missed the reason he was initially stopped.  Well today, the news reporter said they were still waiting for an answer on that one...what a shame.

With all the secrecy (again), who wouldn't suspect that this was just another case of foulplay by the police department, now they have to come up with an answer to that question, although I can't believe it's taking them this long to give the reason....even if it has to be fabricated in a back room.


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## Butterfly (Apr 28, 2015)

WHATEVER happened -- It does not excuse or mitigate in any way the rioting and burning and looting.  The damage done to the owners and employees of those store and homes that were destroyed and the officers and others who were hurt is just as real and just as inexcusable.  This kind of violence does not solve anything -- we just don't have the right to say "what happened here is despicable and unfair so let's go burn down the neighborhood."


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## applecruncher (Apr 28, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> WHATEVER happened -- It does not excuse or mitigate in any way the rioting and burning and looting.  The damage done to the owners and employees of those store and homes that were destroyed and the officers and others who were hurt is just as real and just as inexcusable.  This kind of violence does not solve anything -- we just don't have the right to say "what happened here is despicable and unfair so let's go burn down the neighborhood."



I'm not seeing where anyone has said or implied that the rioting & looting were excusable.


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## mitchezz (Apr 28, 2015)

Lon said:


> Of course not.



Then why is it OK to shoot to kill looters? Both are crimes against property.


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## WhatInThe (Apr 29, 2015)

*Police Throw Rocks At Looters*

Police caught throwing rocks at looters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ore-police-officer-threw-rock-protesters.html

If it wasn't so serious this would be childish theater. This is a "Oh yea, take that!" moment. But it gives another glimpse into the mentality of the corrupt/ends justify the means faction of the Baltimore Police Department. It also goes to show when undisciplined police are high on adrenaline they will do anything to make their point and take the respect they should be earning. 

There is a reason they are given helmets, shields, weapons and out there in force. They are supposed to be the professionals and not act like a reactionary school yard bully. This is pitiful.


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## WhatInThe (May 2, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Yes and the punks are cutting the fire hoses...



And getting arrested for that act of ignorance.

http://www.statter911.com/2015/05/01/hose-slashing-suspect-charged-in-baltimore/

Charges included reckless endangerment which about sums it up.


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## QuickSilver (May 2, 2015)

Which is appropriate..


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## Lon (May 2, 2015)

Can we all agree that there is a huge difference between Looting, Rioting & Demonstrating?


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## applecruncher (May 2, 2015)

Lon said:


> Can we all agree that there is a huge difference between Looting, Rioting & Demonstrating?



Strange question.  Many people have already said that, but you've been so focused on killing people you missed it.


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## Shalimar (May 2, 2015)

Arrest yes, shoot no. To try to justify murdering these individuals is purely obfuscation. Jackboots, anyone?


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## Lon (May 2, 2015)

OK I give up. All states in the U.S. have laws against using lethal force against Looters. I thought it was legal in some jusristictions. I researched this subject. I would change that law if I could.


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## AZ Jim (May 2, 2015)

Lon said:


> OK I give up. All states in the U.S. have laws against using lethal force against Looters. I thought it was legal in some jusristictions. I researched this subject. I would change that law if I could.



Fortunately, you cannot.


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## BobF (May 2, 2015)

Wonder about this.   As I remember it is possible to use your gun in defense of your property in some states.   I was thinking Texas was one such state, plus a few others.

Now I have to go check the laws again.   Has some one taken away one of our protected rights?


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## BobF (May 2, 2015)

Lon said:


> OK I give up. All states in the U.S. have laws against using lethal force against Looters. I thought it was legal in some jusristictions. I researched this subject. I would change that law if I could.



It appears to me to be a justifiable shooting in many states of the US.

Make my day laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

The legal concept of the inviolability of the home has been known in Western Civilization since the age of the Roman Republic.[SUP][2][/SUP] The term derives from the historic English common law dictum that "an Englishman's home is his castle". This concept was established as English law by the 17th century jurist Sir Edward Coke, in his _The Institutes of the Laws of England_, 1628:[SUP][3][/SUP]
For a man's house is his castle, et domus sua cuique est tutissimum refugium [and each man's home is his safest refuge].[SUP][3][/SUP]​ The dictum was carried by colonists to the New World, where it has become known as the castle doctrine.[SUP][3][/SUP]  The term has been used in England to imply a person's absolute right to  exclude anyone from his home, although this has always had  restrictions, and since the late twentieth century bailiffs have also had increasing powers of entry.[SUP][4][/SUP]
 Another term, *the "Make My Day Law"*, arose in the USA at the  time of the 1985 Colorado statute that shielded people from any  criminal/civil suits for using force – including deadly force – against  an invader of the home.[SUP][5][/SUP] The law's nickname is a reference to the line "Go ahead, make my day" uttered by actor Clint Eastwood's character "Dirty Harry" Callahan (in the 1983 police film _Sudden Impact_).

Justifiable homicide[SUP][6][/SUP] inside one's home is distinct, as a matter of law, from castle doctrine's no duty to retreat therefrom. Because the mere occurrence of trespassing—and occasionally a subjective requirement of fear—is sufficient to invoke the castle doctrine, the burden of proof of fact is much less challenging than that of justifying a homicide. With a mere justifiable homicide law, one generally must objectively prove to a trier of fact, beyond all reasonable doubt, the intent in the intruder's mind to commit violence or a felony. It would be a misconception of law to infer that because a state has a justifiable homicide provision pertaining to one's domicile, it has a castle doctrine, exonerating any duty whatsoever to retreat therefrom.


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## applecruncher (May 2, 2015)

I thought those laws involved fear for your life, not fear for your property.  In fact some people were sent to prison for shooting someone and claiming they feared for their life.


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## BobF (May 2, 2015)

It looks like we both posted at the same time.   From what I have read over several years, there are states where little resistance to those having guns at home that shoot intruders.   In some locations you can shoot on your property, not just in the house.

Best find out how things go where you are living, then feel secure in what you may have to defend your home or property.   Some states may just not allow any self defense positions at all.   I don't know so make no claims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense_(United_States)

http://www.propublica.org/article/t...sweeping-self-defense-laws-just-like-floridas

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/04/us/table.selfdefense.laws/


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## AZ Jim (May 2, 2015)

AC is correct the right to use lethal requires a demonstrative  "fear for your or anothers life".


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## QuickSilver (May 2, 2015)

Yeah... but the thrill..... OHHHHHH the thrill of blowing someone away.   It's almost an aphrodesiac


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (May 2, 2015)

Were the looters coming towards my store to loot and steal my property, I'd loosen a gas line as I left the building.  I'd have a remote light switch activator.  Wait until they broke the windows and beat down the door and were inside.  Hit the remote that turns the lights on.  KABOOM!!  If they are inside, stealing my property, they are NOT innocent.


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## QuickSilver (May 2, 2015)

Even better!!!!!!


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## koala (May 2, 2015)

*Grumpy Ol' Man*

Boy, did you get out of the wrong side of bed this morning.
You had better run, as the investigation is completed.


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## QuickSilver (May 2, 2015)

Oh come on Koala.... Don't you find it exciting to fantasize about taking a human life for some RC cola and a bag of Doritos??    Even better if we can imagine them blown to bits with body parts flying everywhere..


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## Shalimar (May 2, 2015)

Yikes, QS. I think I will satisfy my bloodlust by watching hot MMA guys.lol. George's St. Pierre, be still, my Canuckian heart, sigh.


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## BobF (May 2, 2015)

According to the articles I read, pleading fear was pretty easy to do and where homes or property are concerned many courts will give easy acceptance of fear.   That becomes a claim and there is no way to prove or disprove that emotion.  

So fire away if in your home and someone is intruding.   All this stuff about not being allowed to shoot your gun in your home is pure nonsense.   It looks like most states will allow that to happen.

Did anyone bother to read the links I posted?

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/04/us/table.selfdefense.laws/

*Nearly all states allow* some use of deadly force to protect yourself  inside your home, based on the "Castle Doctrine." In some areas, many  people still have a "duty to retreat" if possible against an attacker  outside their home. But some states have expanded their laws to boost  those protections in other areas.


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## QuickSilver (May 2, 2015)

ooooohhhhhhh...  Fire away..... ahhhhhh.   Opps sorry... I was having a moment.... /sarcasm


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## BobF (May 2, 2015)

The discussion recently was about the laws and courts, not someones sarcasm.


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## QuickSilver (May 2, 2015)

k:


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## SeaBreeze (May 2, 2015)

BobF said:


> The discussion recently was about the laws and courts, not someones sarcasm.



I agree Bob, I've never had to use my gun to protect myself in my home, and if I did, I wouldn't be getting my jollies in doing so. That type of stereotyping is unrealistic and offensive to me. In Colorado, lethal force is not legal in the defense of property only, but if there is a threat on the homeowner or another in the home from a looter or invader, then the 'make my day' is appropriate.  One would have to be there to experience the situation to make the decision on what to do.

I think in the case of police shooting looters stealing from a store, killing would not be legal, as it is not their home and their lives are not being threatened by the looting.



> *18-1-706 Use Of Physical Force In Defense Of Property*
> 
> A person is justified in using reasonably and appropriate physical force upon another person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent what he reasonably believes to be an attempt by the other person to commit theft, criminal mischief, or criminal tampering involving property, but he may use deadly physical force under these circumstances only in defense of himself or another as described in section 18-1-704.


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## QuickSilver (May 2, 2015)

BobF said:


> The discussion recently was about the laws and courts, not someones sarcasm.



Oh.. well in that case... it must be moral...   lol!!


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