# Are you really interested in saving lives?



## rkunsaw (Jan 17, 2015)

Some of you folks get all fired up wanting to ban guns but obesity kills at least six times as many people per year as guns do.

http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/news/obesity-kills-more-americans-previously-thought

Approximately 32,000 deaths per years attributed too firearms for all causes; murder, accident, suicide, justifiable, etc.

Over 200,000 preventable deaths per year are due to obesity.

If saving lives is really a concern you should all jump on the weight control bandwagon. Call your congress men and women.

Demand they ban artificial sweeteners, margarine, Crisco, HFCS, etc.

 Call fat people names and ridicule them on forums.

Or maybe you aren't really interested in saving lives. Maybe you just want to rant about guns because you don't like them.


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## Warrigal (Jan 17, 2015)

Good idea and while you're at it encourage an active lifestyle as well as promoting healthy food.
Put a tax surcharge on fast food.

May I point out that if I choose to ignore health advice and as a result I die prematurely, then I have only myself to blame.
However, if I am shot dead, accidentally or deliberately, then my demise will not be my choice, not my fault, and I will be very pissed.
I want to live in a society there that possibility is not a probability.

I also want to live in a society where it is unlikely that an obese person will fall on me from a great height, killing me instantly.
Oh wait, I already do.

How silly do you want this discussion to become? :devil:

BTW, I'm still waiting on the death by hammer statistics. 
Unless it is more that 1000 pa for the US then your assertion was invalid.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 17, 2015)

So it seems you are not interested in saving lives except for your own. 

I don't have hammer statistics, that wasn't my post.


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## SifuPhil (Jan 17, 2015)

rkunsaw said:


> Some of you folks get all fired up wanting to ban guns but obesity kills at least six times as many people per year as guns do.
> 
> http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/news/obesity-kills-more-americans-previously-thought
> 
> ...



That's an interesting perspective.



> If saving lives is really a concern you should all jump on the weight control bandwagon. Call your congress men and women.



They won't answer the phone - they're out at the all-you-can-eat buffet.



> Demand they ban artificial sweeteners, margarine, Crisco, HFCS, etc.



Another good point. That would be a tough battle, I think ...



> Call fat people names and ridicule them on forums.



I tried that on a weight-loss forum - they banned me. 



			
				Dame Warrigal said:
			
		

> May I point out that if I choose to ignore health advice and as a result I die prematurely, then I have only myself to blame.



Perhaps not. Maybe your parents showed their love with food ... maybe you were subjected to too much advertising by the fast-food industry. 

And - you'll also increase the cost of medical care by going in for bariatric surgery, having heart attacks, needing to go on blood thinners and a plethora of other Rxs ... you'll make airplanes and boats use more fuel ... increased greenhouse gas emissions ...



> However, if I am shot dead, accidentally or deliberately, then my demise  will not be my choice, not my fault, and I will be very pissed.



Again, _maybe_. You might be part of a gang ... you might be a drug dealer ... you might be robbing a house or mugging someone. You might be walking down a dark alley counting your money. There are MANY times when a shooting victim IS at fault. 



> I also want to live in a society where it is unlikely that an obese  person will fall on me from a great height, killing me instantly.
> Oh wait, I already do.



Grossly Obese Man Dies ...

... you might have been sitting on the floor next to him ...


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## AZ Jim (Jan 17, 2015)

#$%^&*^%$%^&*


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## AZ Jim (Jan 17, 2015)

DW, I couldn't agree more.  I live in Arizona where anyone can not only own a gun or openly carry it in pubic, but here you can conceal it without a permit.  I do not need a gun to "protect" myself.


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## AZ Jim (Jan 17, 2015)

rkunsaw said:


> Some of you folks get all fired up wanting to ban guns but obesity kills at least six times as many people per year as guns do.
> 
> http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/news/obesity-kills-more-americans-previously-thought
> 
> ...


  Just curious, what do you use guns for?  If it's rifles and hunting, I get that, but otherwise why??


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## QuickSilver (Jan 17, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Just curious, what do you use guns for?  If it's rifles and hunting, I get that, but otherwise why??



Sitting around stroking them maybe??  lol!!


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## Pappy (Jan 17, 2015)

QS..I love stroking my guns. Mights  well as nothing else left to stroke.


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## rkunsaw (Jan 17, 2015)

Hunting and nuisance animal control are the main reasons I use guns. I also have them available for protection against man or beast if the need arises. There were times in my life when I shot sporting clays and targets at a range. 

I don't carry a gun except on my property or hunting. I usually have a loaded gun in my truck. I've never shot anyone or even threatened to, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot if the situation warranted it.

I've shot and owned guns all my life. The anti gun crowd have mostly never owned or shot guns but they like to talk like they know all about them. They don't even realize how stupid some of the things they say sound to people who know guns.

Most gun owners are not 'gun nuts' as the gun hater crowd likes to call us. They are the nutty ones.


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## rt3 (Jan 17, 2015)

Really good guns are a good investment. High quality target guns can run as high as 10k and have appreciated at the rate of about 12% a year, and a good trip or skeet can run 20k. Some select models will run as high as 100k. So yes there is good reason to "stroke" them but as ru pointed out some of the dumbest stuff comes out of people who don't have a clue.


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## Susie (Jan 17, 2015)

Terrific advertising for the "diet" industry!
Fat versus guns???:shucks:


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## Kitties (Jan 17, 2015)

I'm not sure if this is another way to get at fat people. It seems one of the few incidents where it's OK to bash. I know I'm fat. If were so easy to loose weight I would have a long time ago. I haven't smoked in 30 years this coming summer. That was easy to stop. Food not so much. While drug addiction and alcohol (both of which people can do without and live) are considered diseases, using to much food is often seen as no self control. I'm beyond tired of it. I even used to attend events at a sanctuary for animals until I heard a speaker make a comment that I took was against overweight people.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 17, 2015)

rkunsaw said:


> Hunting and nuisance animal control are the main reasons I use guns. I also have them available for protection against man or beast if the need arises. There were times in my life when I shot sporting clays and targets at a range.
> 
> I don't carry a gun except on my property or hunting. I usually have a loaded gun in my truck. I've never shot anyone or even threatened to, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot if the situation warranted it.
> 
> ...



I completely agree with you Rkunsaw.  We don't hunt, but would if we needed to.  We have a gun at the ready at home, and have for around 40 years, never had to use it, but rather have it and not need it, than not have it and need it.  We're not paranoid at all, just smart and prepared, not looking to lean on someone else or a nanny government to protect us if a criminal breaks into our home.  Waiting for a response from 911 is not an option when seconds count.

We also have a few other rifles, which we sometimes take when camping in the wilderness areas, for protection from man or beast, but mostly for target practice.  We haven't had to use our firearms to defend ourselves, but neither of us would hesitate if need be, we prefer not to be victims if avoidable.

I find it offensive for those against guns to label us all as gun nuts, or stroking our guns in a ****** way.  That just shows their childish mentalities, and is a good reason that they never own a gun. If you're scared of it, stay far away from it, better for all concerned.  Gun owners may have them for protection, game sports, fun/target practice or collecting.  Regardless, this is America and we don't need to give an excuse or reason.


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## rt3 (Jan 17, 2015)

Increased greenhouse emissions.----- Lol,lol chorkle.


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## Warrigal (Jan 17, 2015)

rkunsaw said:


> So it seems you are not interested in saving lives except for your own.
> 
> I don't have hammer statistics, that wasn't my post.



Sorry about the hammer mix up but I must protest that I am always interested in saving lives.
As a teacher I taught health and hygiene, water safety and protective behaviours to teens.
As a youth leader I inculcated in my charges an awareness of the hazards of the bush and a sense of responsibility for their own and others' safety. Never had to teach them how to avoid getting shot because firearms are not allowed in our National Parks.

And of course, as a mother and grandmother I'm interested in the safety of children.
My life is less important now than the lives of little children. I've had my go at life and the young ones should have the same opportunity.

PS, did you not notice that my previous post was tongue in cheek?


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## Don M. (Jan 17, 2015)

rkunsaw said:


> Some of you folks get all fired up wanting to ban guns but obesity kills at least six times as many people per year as guns do.



The number of people who die from Obesity related issues, every year, is of little consequence.  The IMPORTANT number is the massive expenses they run up on our nations health care, en route to their demise.  The Harvard School of Public Health did a study and using the numbers from 2005, they found that Obesity related issues cost the nation 190 BILLION dollars...and That was 10 years ago.  The number today is probably well over 200 Billion per year.  Most of that money comes out of Medicare, Medicaid, and from higher health insurance premiums from the health care insurance companies.  

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-consequences/economic/

Insofar and guns and gun control are concerned, there are some interesting statistics that we never hear about.  When looking at the number of murders, Per Year, Per Nation, Per !00,000 people, the US ranks about number 110th, at an average of 4.2 murders per 100,000.  Honduras is the worst nation, at almost 92 per 100K.  Virtually all the nations of Africa and South America, and the old Soviet Union rank way higher than the US, in terms of murders per year, by population.  Yet, nearly every one of these nations have One Thing in Common...they All have strict controls on gun ownership by private citizens.   On the flip side...Switzerland has the Lowest murder rate in the world, and that nation mandates that every able bodied person be trained in the use of firearms, and have a weapon at home, and to be ready to serve if Switzerland is ever threatened.  This kind of throws a "monkey wrench" into the gears that drive the thinking of those who would blame guns for all this violence.  Gun control laws seem to have little real effect...those who would commit mayhem will find a way to do so.  BTW, these national numbers can be verified by a little Internet searching...Wikipedia, Snopes, etc.


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## Warrigal (Jan 17, 2015)

My comments in blue. 





> I find it offensive for those against guns to label us all as gun nuts, (I've never called you nuts as far as I can remember but if I have, I apologise.)
> 
> or stroking our guns in a ****** way.  (if you are referring to my photo of a man with a very big gun, it was a joke)
> 
> ...


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## Butterfly (Jan 17, 2015)

I have a gun for the same reason I have a fire extinguisher -- I hope I never need it, but if I do, I'll be glad it's there!


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 18, 2015)

rkunsaw said:


> hunting and nuisance animal control are the main reasons i use guns. I also have them available for protection against man or beast if the need arises. There were times in my life when i shot sporting clays and targets at a range.
> 
> I don't carry a gun except on my property or hunting. I usually have a loaded gun in my truck. I've never shot anyone or even threatened to, but i wouldn't hesitate to shoot if the situation warranted it.
> 
> ...





seabreeze said:


> i completely agree with you rkunsaw.  We don't hunt, but would if we needed to.  We have a gun at the ready at home, and have for around 40 years, never had to use it, but rather have it and not need it, than not have it and need it.  We're not paranoid at all, just smart and prepared, not looking to lean on someone else or a nanny government to protect us if a criminal breaks into our home.  Waiting for a response from 911 is not an option when seconds count.
> 
> We also have a few other rifles, which we sometimes take when camping in the wilderness areas, for protection from man or beast, but mostly for target practice.  We haven't had to use our firearms to defend ourselves, but neither of us would hesitate if need be, we prefer not to be victims if avoidable.
> 
> I find it offensive for those against guns to label us all as gun nuts, or stroking our guns in a ****** way.  That just shows their childish mentalities, and is a good reason that they never own a gun. If you're scared of it, stay far away from it, better for all concerned.  Gun owners may have them for protection, game sports, fun/target practice or collecting.  Regardless, this is america and we don't need to give an excuse or reason.






> warrigal:  My comments in blue.





> _
> 
> i find it offensive for those against guns to label us all as gun nuts, (i've never called you nuts as far as i can remember but if i have, i apologise.)
> 
> ...



_
_Warrigal, I was just replying to Rkunsaw's post that I quoted in my message.  He brought up the term commonly used by anti-gun people, and I told him the way I felt about the terminology. I wasn't referring to anyone personally.

No, I happened to say stroking, because it was recently mentioned in this thread.  Just one example, others are when people say they are phallic symbols for men, or the men just 'love' their guns, etc. etc.  Again, wasn't even thinking about you. ​  It just isn't true for the average man who has guns, another example of painting with a broad brush.

I said I had the gun at the ready at home, in case of an intruder, not on a bus...but if a crazy person came onto the bus to kill innocent people, I'd be grateful if someone was there with a gun, to stop them in their tracks.

I was telling Rkunsaw what we or others do with the guns, and that we shouldn't have to explain anything or make excuses for it in this country, simple as that.

 I don't care to save the world, as far as the children I've said in the past, stop letting the doctors put them on mind-altering prescription drugs like Ritalin, and many others when they're normal kids, if they really need these pills, then do a better job of prescribing them and adjusting the dosages.  The majority of the mass shootings were done by people who were on pharmaceuticals for real or imagined mental problems, which have side effects of both homicide and suicide.  Then they can concentrate of getting the guns from the criminals in the streets, the ones who get their weapons illegally and always will and who do most of the killing.  If they feel they need armed security guards at the entrance of the schools, or allow concealed carry by those who are familiar with guns, then they can do that also.

Anyway, to be clear, I wasn't talking about you anywhere, just responding to Larry.


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## oldman (Jan 18, 2015)

I own 2 rifles and 2 handguns. I never threatened or shot at anyone. I did take down a few deer earlier in my life and I ate and shared the meat. Never cared for small game hunting. My rifles stay locked in the safe with my 2 handguns, which do get used on occasion when my Son and I decide to go fire off a few boxes just to have bragging rights as to has the better eye. I have an old .22 Iver Johnson and a 9 mm. Smith and Wesson, which after target shooting I bring home, take apart, clean, reassemble and put back in the safe. I keep my wife's .25 caliber Taurus in the nightstand.  

I do know of a few pilots that carry a handgun in the cockpit with them, (both fly international), but they had to jump though hoops to be able to do so. I think they carry .40 caliber handguns issued by the government.


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## Davey Jones (Jan 18, 2015)

FBI Stats

Total murder victims 12,765
 Total firearms 8,855


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 18, 2015)

How it's done in Colorado...http://www.amusingplanet.com/2015/01/shooters-grill-gun-themed-restaurant-in.html


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## Warrigal (Jan 18, 2015)

And in Texas



> *Guard accidentally fires gun at Shooters restaurant, police say*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Another responsible and well trained gun owner. :lofl:


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## Kadee (Jan 19, 2015)

I had an issue with weight although. I didn't think I was that bad until I now look back at photos, which we did only three nights ago while we had visitors here from Queensland and we swapped photos taken while we were traveling together with them for three months in our caravan.

I was getting close to 90 kg although I have always walked most days, weather permitting about 4- 5 kms.i have never been a junk food eater but ate very little fruit but plenty of bread ( sandwiches) and bread to mop up gravy with roast meals, stews etc. 

Five years ago I was dioganised with type 2 diabetes and told I needed to loose weight at the time I was wearing size 18 clothes 
The prospect of living with diabetes frightened me enough to try to loose weight, and I had tried in the past witout loosing any weight so out of desperation I looked into a diet company who I decided to join considering they gave you a list of your own food to eat for each meals, I didn't like the ideas of " shakes" anyway by taking to them they explained I was eating way to many carbs, bread pasta etc they recommended protein meals like fish and veg in place of a sandwich, which was not easy to adapt from eating two slices of bread with most meals to only one slice in total a day.

I was determined to succeed because of the diabetes and lost a total of 26 kg in weight.and HAVE NOT put the weight back on I now wear size 12 clothes 
I'm still treated as a diabetec but every time I have the yearly test to check long term sugar levels mine is always normal

The doctor keeps,asking me who diagnosed me as a diabetic I answer I don't know as we live in a country area where most doctors only stay for about a year, it should be listed on his computer who the doctor was at the time


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## hollydolly (Jan 19, 2015)

Well done Kadee, that's at least 4 stones you've lost which is a great achievement.


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## Ralphy1 (Jan 19, 2015)

Hmmm, I going to start locking up my hammer if I can find it...


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## SifuPhil (Jan 19, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Hmmm, I going to start locking up my hammer if I can find it...



You got a license for that hammer, bud? :disturbed:


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## rt3 (Jan 19, 2015)

Did you get a back round check?
Do you or have you any record of mental instability?
Do you have any restraining orders outstanding requiring you to report to Home Depot on a regular basis?
Do you use recreational drugs?
Do you take the hammer down to meet the nail, or bring the board up?
If all you carry is a hammer, does everything look like a nail?


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## Debby (Jan 19, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> And in Texas
> 
> 
> Another responsible and well trained gun owner. :lofl:





Right there is one reason why those of us who don't insist on carrying guns or even having them, are nervous about people who insist it's their right to have and or carry the darn things everywhere!  I have no desire to even be 'non-seriously injured' because of some idiot carrying their loaded weapon around in their pocket.  I'd be filing charges if I was one of those people in the restaurant that's for sure.


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## Debby (Jan 19, 2015)

Whenever I see this sort of thing (or cases where judges let off rapists, murderers, etc) my one hope is that if and when that gun owner (or the freed criminal) hurts someone, that it isn't someone else's family that is injured.  Like if that guy with the gun in the restaurant sees fit to pull it out and use it for any reason, that it isn't me or mine at the next booth who gets 'accidentally' shot.  It better be someone from his/her own family.  If the freed criminal hurts another person, it better be the judges family, not mine.  Not that I actually hope that other people will be hurt, but Karma better get involved.



SeaBreeze said:


> How it's done in Colorado...http://www.amusingplanet.com/2015/01/shooters-grill-gun-themed-restaurant-in.html


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## rt3 (Jan 19, 2015)

Debby said:


> Right there is one reason why those of us who don't insist on carrying guns or even having them, are nervous about people who insist it's their right to have and or carry the darn things everywhere!  I have no desire to even be 'non-seriously injured' because of some idiot carrying their loaded weapon around in their pocket.  I'd be filing charges if I was one of those people in the restaurant that's for sure.


There is no doubt the state will have to foot the medical bills. If the officer is held negligent by his department, is one thing. Anyone damaged could file a civil action for damages.
you only have a right to decide if you want to pack, you do not have right to say if anyone else does. Ironically karma has spoken and the people packin are guarding your right to protest. Your chances of getting hit by lighting are much higher, and getting in a car accident while someone is on the phone are astronomically higher. Perhaps your safety interests would be better suited lobbying in these areas?


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## Davey Jones (Jan 19, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> I have a gun for the same reason I have a fire extinguisher -- I hope I never need it, but if I do, I'll be glad it's there!


A fire extinguisher use just right will split a head open and he's dead.
A handgun,  most of us would just point and shoot ,in panic,at anything,anyone that moves.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 19, 2015)

If you would panic and point and shoot at anything that moves, then in no way should you own a gun.  And no, most of us are not like that.


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## rt3 (Jan 19, 2015)

Probably should get some more fire extinguishers, for multiple attackers, and reloading, forget the gun. Some people just aren't mechanically inclined.


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## Warrigal (Jan 19, 2015)

Late last night, out of curiosity, I switched Google news to US edition, used the search words "accidental discharge". I found at least five in the last week. Not all gun deaths are murder. There are a lot of accidents around guns for the simple reason that they are dangerous.



> [*#1 Teen dies after being shot by friend in apparent accidental shooting in*
> Posted 4:09 pm, January 11, 2015, by Stephanie Ando, Updated at 05:34pm, January 12, 2015
> 
> WHITSETT, N.C. — A 15-year-old was shot and killed Sunday by his 15-year-old friend in what Guilford County sheriff’s investigators said they believe was an accidental shooting.
> ...



Then I searched a bit further and added the words "concealed carry" to the search. This led to a site devoted specifically to instances where deaths occurred from shootings by people who were legally allowed to conceal carry.

Too many to reproduce in a post but if you are interested each case is outlined here with supporting references
http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwprivatecitizens.pdf

And finally, just to show that I'm not just picking on America (I did try a similar google search for other countries) I can across this piece of gross stupidity, not to say appalling lack of judgement and negligence, from the UK. Although no-one died, as a teacher I was totally shocked at the thought of what might have happened. I've taken kids to visit police stations before and never has a police officer fired live ammunition in the vicinity of the students. They usually talk to them about what happens if you fall foul of the law, take their fingerprints and show them the cells. Never this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...during-prize-winners-visit.html#disqus_thread


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## Denise1952 (Jan 19, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> I completely agree with you Rkunsaw.  We don't hunt, but would if we needed to.  We have a gun at the ready at home, and have for around 40 years, never had to use it, but rather have it and not need it, than not have it and need it.  We're not paranoid at all, just smart and prepared, not looking to lean on someone else or a nanny government to protect us if a criminal breaks into our home.  Waiting for a response from 911 is not an option when seconds count.
> 
> We also have a few other rifles, which we sometimes take when camping in the wilderness areas, for protection from man or beast, but mostly for target practice.  We haven't had to use our firearms to defend ourselves, but neither of us would hesitate if need be, we prefer not to be victims if avoidable.
> 
> I find it offensive for those against guns to label us all as gun nuts, or stroking our guns in a ****** way.  That just shows their childish mentalities, and is a good reason that they never own a gun. If you're scared of it, stay far away from it, better for all concerned.  Gun owners may have them for protection, game sports, fun/target practice or collecting.  Regardless, this is America and we don't need to give an excuse or reason.



I am with you both, as I always want the right to have a gun if I want one.   I disrespect people who are rude to others because of their opinion.  I respect folks that can give their own "opposite" opinion without bashing someone.


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## rt3 (Jan 19, 2015)

If you carry, the number one rule taught to all students, "You will have an Ad, the only question is when and where, if you are taught this now it will occur in a safe direction, if you don't like that put the gun down and walk away"


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## rt3 (Jan 19, 2015)

Most AD turn out ok, like the lady taking on her cell phone, but looks up in time not to hit you.


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## oakapple (Jan 19, 2015)

Why oh why are we having yet another thread on gun carrying?Apart from anything else, it's boring.


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## rt3 (Jan 19, 2015)

Don't participate.


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## oakapple (Jan 19, 2015)

rt3 said:


> Don't participate.


 No, I won't. Just looked in, to see if anything novel or worthwhile was being said. I will leave now.


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## rt3 (Jan 19, 2015)

Ya I noticed you don't. Maybe you should and it would get interesting.


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## Denise1952 (Jan 19, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> And in Texas
> 
> 
> Another responsible and well trained gun owner. :lofl:



Quit laughin Dame, remember, all we have to deal with here is humanoids.


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## Warrigal (Jan 19, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> If you would panic and point and shoot at anything that moves, then in no way should you own a gun.  And no, most of us are not like that.


Heaven help the world if most were like that.
It's not the most that concern me. 
It's the few crazy, negligent and irresponsible ones out there with a pistol at hand.


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## rt3 (Jan 19, 2015)

Yup, don't play with your roscoe on the John. (Lunny)


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## Denise1952 (Jan 19, 2015)

rt3 said:


> Yup, don't play with your roscoe on the John. (Lunny)



sounds like the voice of experience


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## rt3 (Jan 19, 2015)

I
 1887CONNECT​ 105TWEETLINKEDIN 108COMMENTEMAILMORE​
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Officials say a Utah teacher is in good condition after accidentally shooting herself in the leg with a concealed firearm in a faculty bathroom at the elementary school where she works.
Granite School District spokesman Ben Horsley says the gun went off while the woman was in a faculty restroom shortly before class started Thursday at Westbrook Elementary School, in the Salt Lake City suburb of Taylorsville. The teacher was rushed to the hospital.

Horsley says no other faculty or students witnessed the shooting, but some heard the gunshot.
He says the the bullet entered and exited the teacher's leg.

Horsley wouldn't release further details about the woman, but he says she was carrying the weapon legally with a concealed firearm permit.
Utah law allows anyone with a concealed carry permit to wear a gun in a public school.
_Copyright 2014 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed._


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## Warrigal (Jan 19, 2015)

Insanity is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
The prosecution rests.






:sorry: I couldn't help myself.


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## SifuPhil (Jan 19, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Too many to reproduce in a post but if you are interested each case is outlined here with supporting references
> http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwprivatecitizens.pdf



I only read the first dozen pages, but even with that small amount I could see a trend - most of the perps were either young, stupid or mentally unbalanced (or perhaps a mix of all three).

This to me would indicate a need for psychological testing for gun permits, but then you have the problem of using a pseudo-science to evaluate a human being. You might as well employ an astrologer or tarot-card reader to see what the permit holder will do in the future. 

So that still leaves us with the problem of deciding who can have a permit ...


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## Warrigal (Jan 19, 2015)

It does, doesn't it?
And the stats I have been looking at from the FBI indicate that hand guns kill a lot more people than rifles and assault weapons.

A problem you can live with?


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## SifuPhil (Jan 19, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> It does, doesn't it?
> And the stats I have been looking at from the FBI indicate that hand guns kill a lot more people than rifles and assault weapons.
> 
> A problem you can live with?



Me, personally? Yes. I've lived with worse.


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## Warrigal (Jan 19, 2015)

I aspire for better.


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## SifuPhil (Jan 19, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I aspire for better.



As do I, but sometimes you have to grovel with the pigs before you can soar with the eagles.


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## Warrigal (Jan 19, 2015)

I burrow with wombats and hop with kangaroos.
I'm lucky to have such nice friends.


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## SifuPhil (Jan 19, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I burrow with wombats and hop with kangaroos.
> I'm lucky to have such nice friends.



Unfortunately, here in the urban areas we have to plague with the rats and strut with the pigeons.


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## darroll (Jan 19, 2015)

I had to post this as the devil made me do it.


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## Warrigal (Jan 20, 2015)

Ha Ha, Darroll, very funny.

Now it's my turn. :grin:

I didn't write this myself but it is funny, you'll have to agree. :yes:



> *Alabama Problem No. 1: Not enough loaded guns in cars*
> 
> By John Archibald
> on January 19, 2015 at  8:54 AM
> ...


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## Ralphy1 (Jan 20, 2015)

I would like to lob a grenade or two at some inconsiderate drivers rather than just giving them the finger as they might shoot me...


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## rt3 (Jan 20, 2015)

Appreciate the humour, but there is "the rest of the story". Alabama, New York , Maryland and a afew other state sare the only ones that don't consider your car an extension of your personal property. Personal property states allow a weapon in the car without  a permit.

 This stems way back and has more to do with interstate commerce laws. So if a trans continental trucker or a tourist passing thru is carring a gun and passes thru Ala. gets picked up for speeding the officer also has to apply the weapons to the charge. Everybody knows it's bs so when it gets to court the judge throws it out. Sometimes the judge doesn't. 

Here is where it gets really complicated. Federal law allows the driver to carry the weapon, so all the truck driver or the tourist has to do Is sue the court under federal law, which is a shoe in, but it costs the local municipalities big bucks cause they have to pay for the defense attorney. Anti gun sheriffs and mayors who resist the law are the ones wasting the money.

I posted in gun watch a clip of Maryland being sued for this very reason, which I guess you didn't make the connection.
Contrary to this anti gun post, police don't care about guns in cars, this sheriff is anti, and as Alabama as a whole is really pro gun his job will be at risk in the next election. Most cops are far more worried about getting hit by a car. Ask them. 

Taking this interstate personnel property problem and changing the law will save many tax payer dollars for better use.
These riduculous laws are being cleaned up in many states. I posted one article about Penn. earlier if you interested.


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## oakapple (Jan 20, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> As do I, but sometimes you have to grovel with the pigs before you can soar with the eagles.


 You'll be soaring with the pigs before any gun laws are changed.


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## rt3 (Jan 20, 2015)

See I knew you had it in you.


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## Denise1952 (Jan 20, 2015)

To be honest about your OP RK, I think a lot of people, including myself, just like to argue once in awhile (some, all the time).  Now if only arguing could burn calories, we could get a lot more people to argue with us dangit!!


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