# What should seniors do to protect themselves, once they retire??



## MercyL (Aug 7, 2013)

**This discussion was inspired by another discussion on retired seniors and the financial hardships we face with retirement.**

Those of us in are late 40's, 50'sand 60's cannot restore the retirement money squandered by the banking system. We were not prepared to rely on Social Security, alone, we understood it as part of an overall retirement package. We invested in 401K'sand 403B's in an effort to provide for ourselves.

We did what we were told to do.

There must be something we can do to ease the hardships we face. In the USA, we have the AARP but I fear it, too has been captured by its wealthiest members and is now an unreliable advocate for the rest of us. We'll need another option.

If you could repair the damage, how would you do it? Would you lobby government? Would you organize communes?

What options present themselves when dreaming, not of a perfect world, but of creating justice where none currently exists?


----------



## Diwundrin (Aug 7, 2013)

Glad you're not looking for a perfect world MercyL, that will save you a lot of searching time, but looking for justice is a wasted effort too.  That is the the stuff of Disney, the Bible and other works of fiction.  Things don't really operate that way, and we seniors are an endangered, and disregarded species to those holding the reins these days.  

The rules and advice we were raised on, and have lived by, no longer apply.  The younger people no longer aspire to accrue their own retirement comfort the way Grandpa did, they just resent Grandpa for having it at all,  instead of giving it to them to blow on living for today.  

The entitlement attitude has become too ingrained for our old ways of thinking to hold any sway. No one will campaign for election on a platform of representing the elderly, and protecting their nest eggs.  Not enough of the population are elderly enough (yet!) to give a toss about us.  They want promises that benefit them, and their lifestyles, NOW,  the future is beyond their capacity to contemplate.

There are plenty of Senior focused lobby groups around but what leverage do they have?  What can they possibly bribe politicians with to get a hearing? 
 They can't appeal to a politician's conscience or sense of fair play.  Those attributes won't be found in a successful politician, they're not the character traits that allow a candidate to con voters.  
They are, and have to be, mercurial, show pony, shadow boxing, shape shifting, devious, lying flim flammers to even get enough attention from their own Parties to be preselected to stand. They are looking after No.1, and render assistance only to those who can personally benefit them, with campaign donations, or networking through positions of power.  We have neither to offer.

A senior's lobby group may as well fart in a hurricane as expect attention paid to their needs or unfair circumstances by any politician other than those who will never amount to the front page and are either deluded, or desperate to pretend, that they are in politics to 'do good'.  They will be the losers in the game of Politics as it is played and never get a foot in the door of the real power players.    

I'm afraid we are on a hiding to nothing as things stand.  Your retirement system is a tad different to ours but self funded retirees are in the same boat everywhere.  We're milked for the shameful crime of actually having saved our money and accrued assets, and not debt, by those who have plenty of the latter.

But we don't qualify for any of the benefits bestowed on those who never saved a cent and are living on aged pensions drawn from the welfare bucket.  With the latest interest rate drops here I am actually living on less income that those on the pension.  I have to supplement that by dipping into my capital, but i'm not expecting any sympathy from the pensioners.  After all, they're "entitled" to be looked after, while I apparently, because I worked, saved, and ran the risks of investing my money,  instead of p***ing it away on good times, or raising a large DNA pool, am not.

I distinctly remember the Government exhorting us to "SAVE...  don't waste your money folks, put it in the bank for a rainy day," they said.  
They didn't say that they would be the rain, and would then be the ones taxing those savings. 
 Funny that.  Fancy politicians fleecing and lying to us?  Who'da thought?


----------



## That Guy (Aug 8, 2013)




----------



## Anne (Aug 8, 2013)

*Very well said, Diwundrin!!!!  *:clap:  Sounds like your country's leaders are pretty much the same as ours - bought out, and heartless.  




*That Guy*,   I kinda like your idea there!!!!!


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 8, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> We're milked for the shameful crime of actually having saved our money and accrued assets, and not debt, by those who have plenty of the latter.  I have to supplement that by dipping into my capital, but i'm not expecting any sympathy from the pensioners.  After all, they're "entitled" to be looked after, while I apparently, because I worked, saved, and ran the risks of investing my money,  instead of p***ing it away on good times, or raising a large DNA pool, am not.
> 
> I distinctly remember the Government exhorting us to "SAVE...  don't waste your money folks, put it in the bank for a rainy day," they said.
> They didn't say that they would be the rain, and would then be the ones taxing those savings.
> Funny that.  Fancy politicians fleecing and lying to us?  Who'da thought?



I agree with Anne, very well said Diwundrin!  Depressing after working all your life, saving, paying your bills and taxes, and living responsibly, we'd be kicked to the curb and getting a knife in the back.  Luckily I didn't have my retirement funds in the stock market or anything risky...I'll depend on them until I'm 6 feet under...hopefully I'm dead before my savings run out.


----------



## Diwundrin (Aug 8, 2013)

> .I'll depend on them until I'm 6 feet under...hopefully I'm dead before my savings run out.



That's my plan too SB, we can only hope that works out for us.


----------



## That Guy (Aug 8, 2013)

Will we, then be . . .


----------



## Warrigal (Aug 8, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> I'm afraid we are on a hiding to nothing as things stand.  Your retirement system is a tad different to ours but self funded retirees are in the same boat everywhere.  We're milked for the shameful crime of actually having saved our money and accrued assets, and not debt, by those who have plenty of the latter.
> 
> But we don't qualify for any of the benefits bestowed on those who never saved a cent and are living on aged pensions drawn from the welfare bucket.  With the latest interest rate drops here I am actually living on less income that those on the pension.  I have to supplement that by dipping into my capital, but i'm not expecting any sympathy from the pensioners.  After all, they're "entitled" to be looked after, while I apparently, because I worked, saved, and ran the risks of investing my money,  instead of p***ing it away on good times, or raising a large DNA pool, am not.



Reality check here, Diwundrin. The current maximum aged pension for a single is $19,076.20 and you say that the interest payments that you live on are less than this. Given that the first $18,000 is free of income tax, just how much tax are you actually paying? As for other benefits - are you not in receipt of the Seniors Card and do you not have access to medicare and the subsidy on private health insurance?

You seem to think that the assets that you have accumulated should be maintained until your death and that they should never be dipped into. Isn't that what they are there for - to provide for your needs? If you are ineligible for the aged pension, then as a single home owner you must have assets worth over $750,750.00(http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/assets#a5), not including your home. I suggest that if the interest cheques are inadequate right now then the sensible course of action is to liquidate some of your investments or draw down some of your cash assets. 

If you should be unfortunate enough to lose everything, the government would be there to catch you in the safety net. In fact you would qualify for the full pension if your assets, not including your home, dropped to  $196,750.00. The Australian government is not the enemy of the elderly.


----------



## MercyL (Aug 9, 2013)

The hubby and I are *doing* things on two fronts to dissipate that little black cloud on the horizon.

We are developing new skills, using new technologies as a hedge against a severe downward spiral. Self-employment will probably be the primary method for earning a living, in the future, for both retirees and new college graduates.

We are fortunate to live in an area untouched by the housing crash. Where home owners in other states saw their homes loose value, our home's value has increased. We are making upgrades, like swapping out our old fashioned water heater for a new, tankless model, to increase the home's value.

Most of all, we have decided to be politically active. Beyond voting, we will participate in our party's caucus, where citizens decide which candidates are listed on ballots.


----------



## Diwundrin (Aug 9, 2013)

> draw down some of your cash assets.



Sure am doin' that Warri.  at a faster rate than planned on.

No I don't claim even the senior's health card at present, but I'm going to be workin' on it, my attitude to self reliance is obviously not appreciated so bugger them!  Medicare is mandatory but I owe nothing to that either.  I paid privately for hospital care, out of my pocket,  because I don't have private health insurance either.  When I stop whinging about welfare addicts you'll know I've decided to dip into the trough, but until then I'm costing the Government as little as i can possibly manage, also as little tax as I can manage too, but that's legal,  so I don't appreciate the inference of hypocrasy.  

I'm not entitlement addicted and am perfectly happy to support myself as long as I can.  What I object to is getting penalized and demonized by those who do need support.  I'm not taking any of their money, they're taking mine!  Pensioners aren't affected by the low interest rates so why the resentment against those who are?

 That 18,000 doesn't apply to previous years' tax it's only recently kicked in but I was referring to net income anyway. 

The reason I have taxable assets and appear  so cash flush,  is because it's not tied up in tax, and 'assets'  free superannuation!  I was building this house when all bank assets in the investment funds that were to pay for it were frozen.   I had to draw out my super to keep from losing the house!  Then when they 'unfroze' I was too old to put it back into super so am stuck with it in the bank where it's taxable. Then I inherited Mum's investments to blow out the figure further.  So sorry to be no longer 'needy' but I've been there if that's any consolation, except I didn't qualify for welfare then, wasn't 'elderly' enough, so I made do with what I had rather than go on the dole, that okay with you?   

How many are on your precious pension who have their assets hidden away in non assessable super funds ?, mine's all out in the open that's the difference.  
I'd qualify for the pension too if that little GFC kerfuffle didn't torpedo my superannuation!
What and how I invest is my business, I choose to run less risk so get less return but again that's my business.

The government is certainly the enemy of the self funded elderly, get over it.


----------

