# The War With Isis Can Never Be Won



## Lon (Nov 14, 2015)

The War With Isis Can Never Be Won


Until the Isis Belief System and the rewards of Martyrdom are totally discredited Isis will continue to grow and  appeal to some Muslims as well as non Muslims, but who will effectively be able to do the discrediting, and do it in a manner that Isis members themselves will believe the discrediting? 

I don't advocate this, but until every Muslim on earth ceases to exist this so called war will never end


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## tnthomas (Nov 14, 2015)

It does look to be a "lose'lose" situation but I don't see that killing every last Muslim as a solution...anymore than killing every last "infidel" on the Earth would be.


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## AZ Jim (Nov 14, 2015)

Lon, the problem is not with Muslim's generally.  It is with the radicalized muslim's who are a different breed.  I don't know how we defeat them, it seems each victory only causes more to join in with the fanatics.  I am at a loss as to what to do.


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## Lon (Nov 14, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> It does look to be a "lose'lose" situation but I don't see that killing every last Muslim as a solution...anymore than killing every last "infidel" on the Earth would be.



I did not say anything about killing every last Muslim, maybe the Tooth Fairy can make them Disappear.


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## tnthomas (Nov 14, 2015)

Lon said:


> I did not say anything about killing every last Muslim, maybe the Tooth Fairy can make them Disappear.



I wasn't trying to start an argument with you, but here's what you said:



Lon said:


> I don't advocate this, but until every Muslim on earth ceases to exist this so called war will never end



The Tooth Fairy?


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## Lon (Nov 14, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> I wasn't trying to start an argument with you, but here's what you said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Tooth Fairy?    View attachment 23955



You used the word kill, I didn't, you therefore mis quoted me which I don't appreciate.


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## tnthomas (Nov 14, 2015)

Lon said:


> You used the word kill, I didn't, you therefore mis quoted me which I don't appreciate.



O.K., soooo it looks like we are back to the Tooth Fairy making them 'disappear'.....whatever!    :shrug:


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## AZ Jim (Nov 14, 2015)

Lon said:


> You used the word kill, I didn't, you therefore mis quoted me which I don't appreciate.


Then you should monitor how you post things.  I took you to mean Kill too.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

I get what Lon is saying - "every Muslim on Earth ceases to exist" could mean a tsunami washes over them all or they suddenly all break into a flash-mob and sing "Saturday in the Park" until they drop; technically he didn't say HOW.

But Lon - you know that people will assume the worst. (Buddha knows *I've* found that out!)


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## The Inspector (Nov 14, 2015)

Isis will came to an end.What will came after that I do not know?


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## imp (Nov 14, 2015)

Finally! After reading the first 10 posts noncommittally I think I have for the first time understood how one or two words either mis-intentionally used, or misunderstood, start a row. It sort of snowballs. 

Now I know how to start a fracas, monkey-wrench style!  Ha!    imp


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## applecruncher (Nov 14, 2015)

> break into a flash-mob and sing "Saturday in the Park"



@SifuPhil:
so.....what do you have against Chicago? 
I suppose you also never liked Herb Alpert & TJB. 
Or are you just a "Brass Hater" in general?


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

I believe when the root causes of terrorism are addressed, terrorism will dissipate considerably. Until then, we apply band aids of one kind or another. Some believe the west culpable to some degree in the creation of ISIL. World powers have a tendency to favour short term expediency over long term sensibility. It almost always ends badly.


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## IKE (Nov 14, 2015)

I've always wondered......if they eat a ham sandwich and wash it down with a cold beer, do they burst into flames or what ?


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

imp said:


> Finally! After reading the first 10 posts noncommittally I think I have for the first time understood how one or two words either mis-intentionally used, or misunderstood, start a row. It sort of snowballs.
> 
> Now I know how to start a fracas, monkey-wrench style!  Ha!    imp



What do you mean by "fracas", buddy? You got something against the fracases?!?


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

Fracases? Who are they when they are at home?


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> @SifuPhil:
> so.....what do you have against Chicago?
> I suppose you also never liked Herb Alpert & TJB.
> Or are you just a "Brass Hater" in general?





I have nothing at all against Chicago - I rather enjoyed them back in the day, in between bouts of Pink Floyd and Yes. They restored my sanity for the next round of weird music. 

Now Herb is a different story, although I never really listened to enough of his stuff to give an honest answer. 

Satchmo, though? He was a gift from the gods. 

So no, not a brass hater - just a _badly-played_ brass hater.


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

Hmm. As I recall orthodox Jews observe dietary restrictions also. Hindus do not eat beef. This pagan will not eat bunny, lamb, veal, or pâté. Many Baptists refrain from alcohol. Why does any of this matter?


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Fracases? Who are they when they are at home?



They're still the Fracases - they live next door to the Rumpuses, across the street from the Scrums. 

Their kids, Terrible and Holy, are real little devils.


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## applecruncher (Nov 14, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I have nothing at all against Chicago - I rather enjoyed them back in the day, in between bouts of Pink Floyd and Yes. They restored my sanity for the next round of weird music.
> 
> Now Herb is a different story, although I never really listened to enough of his stuff to give an honest answer.
> 
> ...



Well, sir, I'll have you know I had ALL of TJB's albums (my brother salivated at the cover of "Whipped Cream"....google it and you'll see why), and I wept openly like a baby when Herb and TJB stopped making music. 

Okay, you're not a brass bigot. Carry on!


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## IKE (Nov 14, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Hmm. As I recall orthodox Jews observe dietary restrictions also. Hindus do not eat beef. This pagan will not eat bunny, lamb, veal, or pâté. Many Baptists refrain from alcohol. Why does any of this matter?



It doesn't really.......just curious.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> Well, sir, I'll have you know I had ALL of TJB's albums, and I wept openly like a baby when they stopped making music.



Oh, did they stop? That must be the 3:15 bus I hear with the bad brakes.

JUST KIDDING! :cower:

I too wept openly when Oingo Boingo retired in '95 - their _Dead Man's Party_ was a thing of beauty.








> Okay, you're not a brass bigot.  Carry on!



Thank you - you can be sure I will, usually in the most offensive manner possible.


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## imp (Nov 14, 2015)

IKE said:


> I've always wondered......if they eat a ham sandwich and wash it down with a cold beer, do they burst into flames or what ?



Depends on the phase of the moon.  imp


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## John C (Nov 14, 2015)

I've never understood this thing about eating pork.  Vegetarianism is rational; you don't want animals killed and eaten.  I suppose there is a history to it, but science and common sense indicates nothing will happen to you if you eat a good barbecue pork sandwich.  It's like going back to the Dark Ages or to a time when science and logic were not considered.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

John C said:


> I've never understood this thing about eating pork.  Vegetarianism is rational; you don't want animals killed and eaten.  I suppose there is a history to it, but science and common sense indicates nothing will happen to you if you eat a good barbecue pork sandwich.  *It's like going back to the Dark Ages or to a time when science and logic were not considered.*



That's the basis of religion.


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

Hmmm. Since when are human beings ruled by logic? ROTFCTD. ( translation, rolling on the floor choking to death with laughter.)


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## John C (Nov 14, 2015)

As long as our country remains paralyzed by political correctness, no problem can be solved.


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

Correction, I forgot to add WL.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 14, 2015)

John C said:


> As long as our country remains paralyzed by political correctness, no problem can be solved.



I agree... Everyone should be free to insult and humiliate anyone else... or any other group... AND because of our gun laws.. anyone should be free to blow the hell out of someone who insults them.. because.. I would guess they would feel threatened. and as you say.. the problem would be solved. .   Utopia.. doncha think?


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## IKE (Nov 14, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I agree...anyone should be free to blow the hell out of someone who insults them.



OMG........I think I'm in love !


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## QuickSilver (Nov 14, 2015)

You would be.


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## Lon (Nov 14, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Then you should monitor how you post things.  I took you to mean Kill too.



You are wrong then Jim. I know what I wrote and how you interpret it is your problem.


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## tnthomas (Nov 14, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> Well, sir, I'll have you know I had ALL of TJB's albums (my brother salivated at the cover of "Whipped Cream"....



I was in the midst of puberty when that album came out, so you can imagine the impact that all that whipped cream had on my mind....


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## Ameriscot (Nov 15, 2015)

Lon said:


> The War With Isis Can Never Be Won
> 
> 
> Until the Isis Belief System and the rewards of Martyrdom are totally discredited Isis will continue to grow and  appeal to some Muslims as well as non Muslims, but who will effectively be able to do the discrediting, and do it in a manner that Isis members themselves will believe the discrediting?
> ...



Of course you are advocating this or you wouldn't say it.  I am ashamed to admit I have a relative who wishes all 1.5 billion Muslims would disappear.  She thinks every single one of them are terrorists and out to get her.  And she thinks she's going to heaven because she goes to Catholic mass every Sunday.  Hypocrite.

Any guesses as to what percentage of these 1.5 Billion Muslims is a terrorist?  Pretty damn tiny.


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## Meringue (Nov 15, 2015)

John C said:


> As long as our country remains paralyzed by political correctness, no problem can be solved.



Yes John, in my country also, every conversation is like "treading on eggshells" for fear of "disrespecting". Whatever next, the "Thought Police" perhaps ??


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

Just saw this on FB


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

Meringue said:


> Yes John, in my country also, every conversation is like "treading on eggshells" for fear of "disrespecting". Whatever next, the "Thought Police" perhaps ??




Just what the heck is it you people want to be able to say?  Seriously... you claim you are foced to be politically correct... So my question is..  what is it you want to say that you are being told you can't?    If you mean you are no longer allowed to make bigotted and insulting remarks against someone.. or against another group.. then I contend that's a Good thing.


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## Shalimar (Nov 15, 2015)

Hmmm. Canada has strict hate speech laws, yet successfully manages to live in a multicultural society. We have ten Muslim members of parliament in our new federal government. Our Muslim leaders speak out against ISIL, and others of their ilk. 

Terrorists seek to divide us in order to promote their armageddon. If we permit them to terrify us into demonising all our Muslim brothers and sisters in the name of security, they have already won. Not in my name. I will stand up for the innocent, 

including those unfairly targeted by Islamophobia. I refuse to live in a world without humanity.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 15, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Hmmm. Canada has strict hate speech laws, yet successfully manages to live in a multicultural society. We have ten Muslim members of parliament in our new federal government. Our Muslim leaders speak out against ISIL, and others of their ilk.
> 
> Terrorists seek to divide us in order to promote their armageddon. If we permit them to terrify us into demonising all our Muslim brothers and sisters in the name of security, they have already won. Not in my name. I will stand up for the innocent,
> 
> including those unfairly targeted by Islamophobia. I refuse to live in a world without humanity.



Agree.

During the Gulf War in 1990/91 my 19 year old son was fighting there.  In the TN university where I worked there was an Iraqi woman who worked in the same building.  Her son was also fighting.  Whenever we would pass each other in the hallway we'd ask about the well-being of each other's sons.  We were the same - mothers worrying about our sons.


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## Debby (Nov 15, 2015)

Lon said:


> The War With Isis Can Never Be Won
> 
> ........
> 
> I don't advocate this, but until every Muslim on earth ceases to exist this so called war will never end





"Oh my gosh, you didn't actually say this did you?  Are you seriously advocating genocide?   Then you better advocate genocide for every Jew, every Christian.....because there are nut cases among those groups too."               After reading the posts following that very badly worded post, I am retracting my question and will only remind you that words used (or not used) matter incredibly.



Shalimar said:


> I believe when the root causes of terrorism are addressed, terrorism will dissipate considerably. Until then, we apply band aids of one kind or another. Some believe the west culpable to some degree in the creation of ISIL. World powers have a tendency to favour short term expediency over long term sensibility. It almost always ends badly.



After all my reading and video watching of numerous websites and bypassing the propaganda of the mainstream media, I am one of those who fully believes that the West is responsible for the chaos that is Syria today and the thousands of refugees on the move from that country, from Libya and from Iraq and the US administration has been the primary instigator.  

If the West really wanted to get rid of terrorism they would have welcomed Russia's proactive and effective campaign, they would have reined in Turkey when that country was bombing the Kurds (who have been successful at fighting ISIS on the ground), they would have insisted that the Saudi's, Qatar and Israel quit supporting ISIS and every other terrorist and they would not be arming terrorists.  But instead, they waffled, hemmed and hawed and refused to work together and continued arming terrorists by recently dropping 50 tonnes of ammunition and weapons in the desert, despite having written off $500,000.00 of tax payers money that was supposed to develop an army of terrorists to fight a legitimate government in Syria.     http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel...supporting-al-qaeda-and-isis-in-syria/5464484

I'm sorry to all my American friends here for offending you by saying these things, but you are not your government and they have hijacked your country's name and reputation for the sake of an agenda that does not include peace and stability among nations.  It is more about controlling the very product that is devastating our planet (not to mention the billions of dollars that it brings) and taking care of their 'friends' who have that product.  I may be one of few very outspoken people on this side and on this site, but there are millions of people around the world who are saying exactly the same thing.  The only reason your government didn't decide to bomb the crap out of Syria when Assad was accused of using chemical weapons is because Russia stepped in using diplomacy and because you citizens said no to another war with another country in the Middle East.  You have power, you have to continue using it to force our governments to actively use diplomacy to find peace instead of just loading up another round of bombs.


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## Debby (Nov 15, 2015)

John C said:


> I've never understood this thing about eating pork.  Vegetarianism is rational; you don't want animals killed and eaten.  I suppose there is a history to it, but science and common sense indicates nothing will happen to you if you eat a good barbecue pork sandwich.  It's like going back to the Dark Ages or to a time when science and logic were not considered.




It's a biblical teaching.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

Debby said:


> It's a biblical teaching.




Yes.. and certain Christian denominations do not eat pork either.  Seventh Day Adventists for one.


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## Debby (Nov 15, 2015)

That's right QS.  No eating piggies which coming out of a predominantly vegetarian church culture wasn't hard to do.  I think the Bible says that only the only cloven hoofed animal that was allowed to be eaten were those which 'chewed the cud' and pigs don't.  The Adventist church generally takes OT admonitions pretty literally.


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## tnthomas (Nov 15, 2015)

I've always understood that the religious prohibition concerning eating pork arose from the observation that people got sick when eating it. 

Trichinosis 



> The circumstances surrounding the first observation and identification of _Trichinella spiralis_ are controversial due to a lack of medical records. In 1835, James Paget, a first-year medical student, first observed the larval form of _T. spiralis_while witnessing an autopsy at St. Bartholomew’s Hospital in London. Paget took special interest in the presentation of muscle with white flecks, described as a "sandy diaphragm".
> Although Paget is most likely the first person to have noticed and recorded these findings, the parasite was named and published in a report by his professor, Richard Owen, who is now credited for the discovery of the _T. spiralis_ larval form.[SUP][35][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP]


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

I am very familiar with SDA...  Also no shellfish allowed..only fish with scales are allowed.    No caffeine or any sort of stimulant.   Some of the old timers didn't even allow pepper to be used as a seasoning as it was thought to be a stimulant.    SDA dietary restrictions are very much like the Hebrew... except I don't believe they have to separate meat and dairy.. or keep kosher.


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## Debby (Nov 15, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> I've always understood that the religious prohibition concerning eating pork arose from the observation that people got sick when eating it.
> 
> Trichinosis




No, I think that back in the days of creation and the wandering Hebrews, there wasn't an understanding of disease like that and it was purely an OT Biblical instruction from the 'big guy'.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 15, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Lon, the problem is not with Muslim's generally.  It is with the radicalized muslim's who are a different breed.  I don't know how we defeat them, it seems each victory only causes more to join in with the fanatics.  I am at a loss as to what to do.



Unlike other movements or causes the radicalized/militant Muslims have fewer boundaries compared to protesters/movements past. Even the radicals of the 60s tended to focus bombings & protests on government facilities & organizations like police/ROTC buildings as an example. The anti abortion movement spawned radicals who targeted doctors that performed abortions, setting aside the issue those movements and protesters remained focused on the subject of their disdain.(NOTE I do not condone their actions or even necessarily advocate their 'cause'). This is what makes movements like ISIS extremely dangerous along with being a 'movement' because they are literally a moving target-what, who and where exactly does a country take out this ilk.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 15, 2015)

Debby said:


> No, I think that back in the days of creation and the wandering Hebrews, there wasn't an understanding of disease like that and it was purely an OT Biblical instruction from the 'big guy'.



I've always understood that God gave two parameters for kosher food - that the animal must chew its cud and have split hooves. Pigs have split hooves but they don't chew their cud.


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## Bee (Nov 15, 2015)

It is also stated in a few verses in the Bible that pork should not be eaten, it is not just for Muslims.


http://www.whyislam.org/faqs/restrictions-in-islam/why-do-muslims-abstain-from-pork/

There are several other links to click onto to learn about Islam.


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## tnthomas (Nov 15, 2015)

Debby said:


> No, I think that back in the days of creation and the wandering Hebrews, there wasn't an understanding of disease like that and it was purely an OT Biblical instruction from the 'big guy'.



They certainly didn't have any understanding of disease, but they could put two+two together and tell if eating something made them sick. 

 I think that quite often when a religious edict was handed down, it was for some real life practical reason, or for social control. 

  Of course. if the edict is prefaced with "*God said...*" then that was a big attention getter that had some weighty authority attached to it.


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## Bee (Nov 15, 2015)

I have Muslims in my family and one of the brothers reasons that when Allah said not to eat pork it was because the pig was seen as dirty but with todays hygiene and hygiene practices he sees no reason why they shouldn't eat pork and so he does, alongside another brother and sister that will eat pork as well.........and surprise surprise they will also partake of alcohol.


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## Fern (Nov 15, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Hmmm. Canada has strict hate speech laws, yet successfully manages to live in a multicultural society. We have ten Muslim members of parliament in our new federal government. Our Muslim leaders speak out against ISIL, and others of their ilk.
> 
> Terrorists seek to divide us in order to promote their armageddon. If we permit them to terrify us into demonising all our Muslim brothers and sisters in the name of security, they have already won. Not in my name. I will stand up for the innocent,
> 
> including those unfairly targeted by Islamophobia. I refuse to live in a world without humanity.


Well said. The first post with commonsense. 
Others should stick to the thread without nit picking.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 15, 2015)

*retaliation*

France bombed the so called ISIS capital of Raqqa in Syria.

http://www.ktbs.com/story/30522910/france-bombs-isis

Including a training,recruitment & command center.

Hopefully it won't turn into tit for tat.


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## hangover (Nov 16, 2015)

The Nazi's were tolerated for a long time, before the rest of the world came together to destroy them.


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## Butterfly (Nov 16, 2015)

hangover said:


> The Nazi's were tolerated for a long time, before the rest of the world came together to destroy them.



Yup!


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## Meringue (Nov 16, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Just what the heck is it you people want to be able to say?  Seriously... you claim you are foced to be politically correct... So my question is..  what is it you want to say that you are being told you can't?    If you mean you are no longer allowed to make bigotted and insulting remarks against someone.. or against another group.. then I contend that's a Good thing.



Excuse me, but how dare you presume that I have ever been bigoted or insulting to anybody because of their race or religion. Being raised in a family with parents of different faiths, and an inlaw of a different nationality welcomed fully. Myself joining a march to support the mother of a teenager who was slain because of the colour of his skin. Indeed I couldn't wish for a kinder GP (doctor) who is a Muslim, no more am I racist, as my maternal Grandmother's family had to emigrate here.  I'd just like an open civilised discussion without any name calling.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 16, 2015)

That's good...and I am not saying you are a racist.. the term "You people" being said in the general...  But again.. you are upset with having to be politically correct and find it annoying.. SO  I ask again.. what is it you feel you should be able to say but  cannot?


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## SifuPhil (Nov 16, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> ... SO  I ask again.. what is it you feel you should be able to say but  cannot?



It wouldn't be allowed to be expressed on this forum.


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## Warrigal (Nov 16, 2015)

A war can be won by starving the enemy of supplies and money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/world/middleeast/us-strikes-syria-oil.html?_r=1


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## Bobw235 (Nov 16, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> A war can be won by starving the enemy of supplies and money.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/world/middleeast/us-strikes-syria-oil.html?_r=1



Love it, and the fact that they at least tried to give fair warning to possible civilians driving the trucks.


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## applecruncher (Nov 16, 2015)

error.....


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## Butterfly (Nov 16, 2015)

Good!


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## Laurie (Nov 17, 2015)

"The War With Isis Can Never Be Won" 

That's what they said about communism in Malaysia.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 17, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> It wouldn't be allowed to be expressed on this forum.



Perhaps the things that wouldn't be allowed to be expressed on this forum shouldn't be expressed ANYWHERE?  Just a thought.


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## Debby (Nov 17, 2015)

Bee said:


> I have Muslims in my family and one of the brothers reasons that when Allah said not to eat pork it was because the pig was seen as dirty but with todays hygiene and hygiene practices he sees no reason why they shouldn't eat pork and so he does, alongside another brother and sister that will eat pork as well.........and surprise surprise they will also partake of alcohol.




In the general scheme of things then, not very good Muslims.  Sort of like the Christians who go to church only at Christmas and Easter but still check the 'Christian' box.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 17, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Perhaps the things that wouldn't be allowed to be expressed on this forum shouldn't be expressed ANYWHERE?  Just a thought.



But then you're censoring people ... and their ideas ... that way lies madness.


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## Lon (Nov 17, 2015)

Laurie said:


> "The War With Isis Can Never Be Won"
> 
> That's what they said about communism in Malaysia.



No comarison


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## Bee (Nov 18, 2015)

Debby said:


> In the general scheme of things then, not very good Muslims.  Sort of like the Christians who go to church only at Christmas and Easter but still check the 'Christian' box.



:wtf: note to oneself, do not post personal family stuff on here again.............because people assume too much.


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## Shalimar (Nov 18, 2015)

Wow Debby. That's judgemental and unkind. Who are we to presume we know what is inside anyone's heart? What makes a good Muslim? Surely that is a covenant between the individual and their faith. What makes a good Christian? The same thing. 

Dietary laws do not always define a person's faith. I grew up in a Christian household, I don't give a rat's butt if they go to church or not. If one lives their life with love and compassion in their heart that is the best manifestation of their faith. Bee, we 

do not always agree, but please do not feel you cannot post your personal stuff on this site. Many of us respect diversity. We need to hear examples of everyday normal lives, lived by people little different from ourselves.


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## Laurie (Nov 18, 2015)

Lon said:


> No comarison



Tell that to the troops that died, More than Helmand.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 18, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> But then you're censoring people ... and their ideas ... that way lies madness.



Yeah... that seems to be the case... doesn't it..


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