# If love is everything, what is the purpose of religion?



## Mr. Ed (Oct 31, 2020)

I am confused; what is the real purpose of religion? Does religion lay the foundation for a personal relationship with God, in the Christian faith Jesus forgives sin thereby purifies the soul for God to live within you. 

I've wondered if there are other ways to achieve the same outcome as in Christianity? Chances are, I can never prove or disprove this notion because is set as is, therefore to be reborn in different lifetime would mean giving up my present understanding of life and religion and start over again. To what end, I do not know. 

I support the theory of the _*Law of Attraction *_based on personal experience, _*Karma *_is a fact life. Is Karma only true for humans, not plants or animals? Having the ability to make choices in our daily life establishes preferences between what we want and don't our lives to be. 

By nature, there is an exchange of positive and negative energy, a sort of radar, that attracts us to people and circumstances we want to be a part of. The opposite is also true, we may think we want something, but if the chemistry isn't right it may not be the right time or never at all. 

Positivity attracts negative people and circumstances like a shining light in darkness. Negative people latch onto naturally positive people because it makes them feel good. There is nothing wrong with this, it's the way the world works by sharing and being part of it all. 

The world is life and life is the world. The machine is life in conjunction with the world carry out specific tasks when prompted by circumstance that include the beginning and ending of life, natural disasters, sunny days, rainy days, the seasons, fire, global warming, love, violence everything that happens in life the world as a machine compensates and restores balance.


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## squirrelwhisperer (Oct 31, 2020)

Religion is humanity’s attempt to reach out to God or the sacred or divine. It involves human effort to become acceptable to God or to give meaning to one’s life

Christianity is not a religion because it does not involve humanity’s attempt to reach God, but rather God’s attempt to reach humanity. Christianity is centered on a personal relationship between a creator God and His human creation. It’s about a loving God who initiates the relationship by revealing who He is to His human creation by coming to us in the person of Jesus. Through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus a person is given the way to become acceptable to God who is holy and experience the true meaning for their life


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## Warrigal (Oct 31, 2020)

Purpose? You might just as well ask what it the purpose of the Sun ?
The Sun just is, without purpose, but not without benefit.

Think of religion in that framework and ask what, if anything, is its benefit ?

Some would answer there is no benefit, while others would say that for them it provides meaning for their very existence. We would probably get the same range of answers if we asked what is the purpose of art, or music.


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## charry (Oct 31, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Purpose? You might just as well ask what it the purpose of the Sun ?
> The Sun just is, without purpose, but not without benefit.
> 
> Think of religion in that framework and ask what, if anything, is its benefit ?
> ...





Exactly warrigal .....spot on ...


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2020)

There are many religions besides Christianity.  So with the question of “what is the real purpose of religion“, the answer would have to take in consideration all religions not just Christianity.  This would include the religions that worship the devil and not “God”.

That leads to belief in a “higher power” rather a specific god or devil, but simply an individual or being who is-real, imagined, mystical, historical, Invisible, or any other state that you might be able to conjure up.

Therefore the answer to “what is the real purpose of religion“, define your understanding of real.  If it agrees with my understanding of real I might be able to give an informed answer.  Otherwise, taking a shot in the dark.

I would say the REAL purpose of religion, in the USofA is money and power.  

The real reason individuals seek out and worship; grouped together in a organization called religion, is to gain comfort among others who think like themselves.  IMO.


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## oldman (Oct 31, 2020)

The *Purpose* of *Religion*
The *purposes* of the practice of a *religion* are to achieve the *goals* of salvation for oneself and others, and (if there is a God) to render due worship and obedience to God. Different *religions have* different understandings of salvation and God.


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## Knight (Oct 31, 2020)

Mr. Ed said:


> in the Christian faith Jesus forgives sin thereby purifies the soul for God to live within you.



I cut out all the rest of your post to ask you if you could explain how you came to that statement.  

It could be a true statement if all the violence and murder in various parts of the bible that are attributed to God continued on in those that are violent & commit murder. 

What's your take on violence & murder being derived from God?


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## Judycat (Oct 31, 2020)

Why do some Christians believe it is religiously fine to brandish a gun and a bible together? What the heck does that even mean? I'm saved but I'll kill you? I saw Idaho's Lt. Governor doing that, it's why I'm asking.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 31, 2020)

Judycat said:


> Why do some Christians believe it is religiously fine to brandish a gun and a bible together? What the heck does that even mean? I'm saved but I'll kill you? I saw Idaho's Lt. Governor doing that, it's why I'm asking.


The best!

So well said, Judy.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2020)

Knight said:


> I cut out all the rest of your post to ask you if you could explain how you came to that statement.
> 
> It could be a true statement if all the violence and murder in various parts of the bible that are attributed to God continued on in those that are violent & commit murder.
> 
> What's your take on violence & murder being derived from God?


People often get God the father confused with JC.  I think that’s what happened.  While you didn’t ask me this, , I responded cause I am bored and the subject interests me.  Not speaking for the OP.

I think the Bible says the only way to salvation for Christians is through JC.  But I agreed with you @Knight.  I don’t recall anything about forgiveness being connected to purifying the soul so God could live within us.  We actually have the Holy Ghost whose name was changed cause apparently in modern times to Holy Spirit because the modern kiddies were scared of the word ghost

Guess God by any other name is still God.  A Rose is a Rose is a rose.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2020)

Judycat said:


> Why do some Christians believe it is religiously fine to brandish a gun and a bible together? What the heck does that even mean? I'm saved but I'll kill you? I saw Idaho's Lt. Governor doing that, it's why I'm asking.


Because God speaks to some people, and not just Christians.  All religions have fanatics.  All walks of life have fanatics-the true way, the path to heaven-is wet with the blood of innocents.  Or so I have heard.


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## fmdog44 (Oct 31, 2020)

"If there was no God man would invent one."


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## Rosemarie (Oct 31, 2020)

It is in the nature of most human beings to believe in a being superior to themselves, and to worship that being and hold it responsible for everything that happens. Much of the Old Testament holds 'God' responsible for events which we now know were not caused by him/her/it.  This is what is known as religion.
Just my opinion.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> "If there was no God man would invent one."


Well, he has done this many times


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## Keesha (Oct 31, 2020)

squirrelwhisperer said:


> Christianity is not a religion because it does not involve humanity’s attempt to reach God, but rather God’s attempt to reach humanity.


I strongly disagree. Religion is a man made solution to understanding his/her creator. How can Christianity not be classified as  a religion?


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## asp3 (Oct 31, 2020)

I think that organized religion evolved as a way to control others.  Before that I think that religion was a way to explain the world.  The myths from the first reason for religion were incorporated into organized religion.


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## MarciKS (Oct 31, 2020)

I was under the impression that religion was for the purpose of fellowship with other Christians. The love comes from God. And we're supposed to go out and love one another. Although as Christian myself...I find it to be a difficult task at times.


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## Judycat (Oct 31, 2020)

I like to fellowship with people who wait on me in the grocery store.


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## MarciKS (Oct 31, 2020)

Judycat said:


> I like to fellowship with people who wait on me in the grocery store.


Yes and anymore you are lucky if they say hello or acknowledge your presence while they ring you up.


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## Keesha (Oct 31, 2020)

Judycat said:


> I like to fellowship with people who wait on me in the grocery store.


Could you explain this a bit more please. I don’t quite follow?


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## Judycat (Oct 31, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Could you explain this a bit more please. I don’t quite follow?


Nope.


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## jerry old (Oct 31, 2020)

Great. another post, which invites counter post and explanations  
Watch the circular reasoning go round and round...


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## MarciKS (Oct 31, 2020)

jerry old said:


> Great. another post, which invites counter post and explanations
> Watch the circular reasoning go round and round...


Are you trying to tell us you no likey? *Grins*


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## Gary O' (Oct 31, 2020)

*If love is everything, what is the purpose of religion?*


To accommodate the offering plates


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## MarciKS (Oct 31, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> *If love is everything, what is the purpose of religion?*
> 
> 
> To accommodate the offering plates


They have to have something to help pay the bills to keep them open right?


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## Keesha (Oct 31, 2020)

Judycat said:


> Nope.


Ok!


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## officerripley (Oct 31, 2020)

jerry old said:


> Great. another post, which invites counter post and explanations
> Watch the circular reasoning go round and round...


Ah, but all reasoning is circular, my son. Were it not, it would not be true reasoning. Peace.


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## jerry old (Oct 31, 2020)

-Gosh Clyde, don't you just love it when others explain what you meant.
-Surly do Harold, surly do.


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## Nathan (Oct 31, 2020)

Mr. Ed said:


> If love is everything, what is the purpose of religion?



@Mr.Ed, the body of your post contained numerous points, but for the sake of simplicity I'm just focusing on the thread title.

  My view: the ability to love was granted to us by the Creator, we can love other humans, creatures, objects etc.   Love generates good will among people, it generates "feel good" neurotransmitters and the release of endorphins in our bodies.    All religion aside, we as individuals can return the love God has shown us by loving & respecting God's creatures and creation.    Notice that I use the word "creation" and it's variants, as it is my firm believe that creation took place.  That does not exclude "evolution", which in my mind is a means to 'update' the creation to accommodate changing environments.

So, "the purpose of religion":     Religion is an effort by groups of people to make sense of the world, and as a group to pay respect to the Creator.  Religion is a man-made organization, and as such is vulnerable to  corruption of it's original purpose.  Humans USE god and religion to control, to justify selfish actions, to attempt to elevate themselves to god-like status.    Of course, not all religious groups or sub-groups are corrupt, but the potential is there.

Off topic(somewhat):    Through my study of martial arts and Traditional Chinese Medicine I have heard others say that their study of *Buddhism has made them better Christians*, and I totally agree.    
My long held opinion:  I am Christian, but I can't help but think that God has sent several _representatives _(Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad,etc) to help different societies within the Human community understand the principals of personal conduct, that God wants us all to follow.


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## Pepper (Oct 31, 2020)

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us, only sky....................
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too

Thanks, John.


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## grahamg (Oct 31, 2020)

Quote:
*"If love is everything, what is the purpose of religion?"*

"God is Love", (this is a central belief).

It cannot be stated the other way around, i.e. "Love is God", (its doesn't hold that way around, so I'm told?).

It is fair to say therefore that love is an essential part of religion, and there are plenty of texts to show this, along the lines of: "If a man possesses all kinds of positive characteristics but does not have love, he is like an empty vessel"

Quote:
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or clanging cymbal."

"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.…"


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## Pepper (Oct 31, 2020)

Who/What are you quoting @grahamg?


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## Keesha (Oct 31, 2020)

Pepper said:


> Who/What are you quoting @grahamg?


Corinthians 13


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## Pepper (Oct 31, 2020)

Thanks @Keesha 
I'd check my spelling if I were you, but I'm not
Is that Karma or Dharma?


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## Keesha (Oct 31, 2020)

Pepper said:


> Thanks @Keesha
> I'd check my spelling if I were you, but I'm not
> Is that Karma or Dharma?


Why? Are you a spelling nazi?
No idea if that’s karma or dharma.
I didn’t write it


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## Pepper (Oct 31, 2020)

@Keesha 
I use any excuse just to talk to you!


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## Keesha (Oct 31, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @Keesha
> I use any excuse just to talk to you!


You messin’ with me? 
Thank you. 
I love you too. ❤


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## Pepper (Oct 31, 2020)

Keesha said:


> You messin’ with me?


Never.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 31, 2020)

Nathan said:


> @Mr.Ed, the body of your post contained numerous points, but for the sake of simplicity I'm just focusing on the thread title.
> 
> My view: the ability to love was granted to us by the Creator, we can love other humans, creatures, objects etc.   Love generates good will among people, it generates "feel good" neurotransmitters and the release of endorphins in our bodies.    All religion aside, we as individuals can return the love God has shown us by loving & respecting God's creatures and creation.    Notice that I use the word "creation" and it's variants, as it is my firm believe that creation took place.  That does not exclude "evolution", which in my mind is a means to 'update' the creation to accommodate changing environments.
> 
> ...



That part I marked in bold (i.e. last half of last sentence) makes good sense.  Where we get into trouble, is when a particular group of people decides they have a corner on the "truth market" and everybody else is wrong.  That is why I highlighted that last part of the last sentence.  It provides a concise means of explaining that there are many paths, rather than just one.

I have no problem with the remainder of the quoted post (in fact, it is quite good), but it was that last part that I particularly resonated with.

The only thing I can come up with to explain why various religions seem to need to make up a bunch of stuff we refer to as "dogma", rather than just stating a simple, clear, belief that people can live by, was explained in an earlier post here referring to "money and power", which seems to me to be an abuse of something that could otherwise provide a positive light in people's lives.  I guess that is what happens eventually when humans are involved. 

Even in Christianity, there are differences people come up with to divide people.  For example, one group believes that unless a person is fully dunked in water, that person is not really baptized, while another counters saying that all one needs to do is sprinkle a person with water for it to count.  There is a lot of this stuff that just seems to serve to divide, rather than, join people together with otherwise similar beliefs.  My own view is that a lot of this stuff is petty and has no real bearing on my relationship with any "higher power".

There are well meaning, sincere folks in most any religion, and then there are those who use that religion for their own gain (i.e. a "wolf in sheep's clothing").  Unfortunately, it is the latter that seem to be the most visible, giving the others a bad name.  Religions, at their best, can provide a framework for many people to live good lives.  At their worst, there can be terrible abuse such as the recent terrible example that has come to light in recent years in the Catholic Church.  It seems to me that, as with many things human, there are the good and the bad.  It is up to us individually to seek the good and reject the bad.

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> That part I marked in bold (i.e. last half of last sentence) makes good sense.  Where we get into trouble, is when a particular group of people decides they have a corner on the "truth market" and everybody else is wrong.  That is why I highlighted that last part of the last sentence.  It provides a concise means of explaining that there are many paths, rather than just one.
> 
> I have no problem with the remainder of the quoted post (in fact, it is quite good), but it was that last part that I particularly resonated with.
> 
> ...


Well, gee, I got the full dunked into the water.  I would have been ok with the sprinkles, but after waiting so long to be baptized I guess I needed to be squeaky clean.

I fought joining a religion for almost half my life.  After all, JC destroyed the temple and preached on top of the mountain in the open air and that was good enough for me.   But I finally joined, had to take the kiddies somewhere else on Sunday.  They might have started to think movies were a religion.

I became CATHOLIC.  Yupers.

The abuses of the authorities of Catholic Church can be traced back to the beginning of the church to the present to time.  But I sense @tbeltrans, that you speak only of the abuses of several priests upon children.  I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.

Unfortunately, ****** predators commonly join organizations that allow them access to children.  The Boy Scouts of America come to mind, touted to be a somewhat christian organization, but tainted none the less.

A better example, in my opinion, of the failure of the Catholic Church, would be it’s actions in WWII.  The Church failed the Jewish people in too many ways to mention.  The Vatican holds many treasures given to the Church for sale keeping, that they are still “keeping safe”.

Since you mentioned my money and power statement, when talking about your perceived failure of the Catholic religion, the failure of the Vatican to return these treasures to their rightful owners would have made a better example, IMO.

But allow me to go a step further, a personal step further.  My father was, later in life, a Baptist preacher.  He was on marriage 7, I think.  When he became a preacher, he became a pedophile.  Pedophiles are preachers, priests, teaches, social workers, and on and on and on.  Pedophiles are believers and non-believers.  They are in every walk of life.  They are not limited to the Catholic Church or the Catholic religion, just saying.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 31, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, gee, I got the full dunked into the water.  I would have been ok with the sprinkles, but after waiting so long to be baptized I guess I needed to be squeaky clean.
> 
> I fought joining a religion for almost half my life.  After all, JC destroyed the temple and preached on top of the mountain in the open air and that was good enough for me.   But I finally joined, had to take the kiddies somewhere else on Sunday.  They might have started to think movies were a religion.
> 
> ...



I was raised a Catholic and spent all but one year of school from first through 8th grade in it.  I feel very fortunate that I was not among those abused.

Yes, I am well aware of the abusive history of the Catholic Church.  The indulgences are particularly interesting due to the dichotomy between what we were taught in school and what I found out much later in life, and yes, you are correct that I was speaking only of the abuses of the boys that came to light in recent years rather than going into the entire history.  hat would have been far too long a post. 

I am also aware of the abuses in other organizations, but the thread was about religion, of which I don't believe Boy Scouts necessarily are a part of.  I could be wrong since I was never a Boy Scout.  I agree with, and acknowledge, your point about ****** predators joining organizations for access to children.  That is a much wider scope than specifically religion that was being discussed, but still very true to the best of my knowledge.

When referring to your statement about money and power, I was agreeing and meant it to refer to religion in general, rather than specifically Catholicism, though where I mentioned in my post may well have led to that interpretation.

Regarding the Jewish people, one of my younger brothers delved into our family history with DNA and the whole bit, and discovered that we are really Jewish.  He traced our family on my mother's side back several generations (5, I believe) and all through the mothers, it was Jewish right down the line).  Apparently, among those who were fortunate enough to escape Hitler and come to the US and came through Ellis Island, there were many who stayed in New York and married Catholics.  My grandmother on my mother's side did that, and that is how we ended up being raised Catholic.  I don't believe any of us kids remained with the Catholic Church, but my mother did until she got so disgusted at how the Catholic Church handled that whole priest abuse issue and finally left the Church a couple of years ago. 

Yes, I fully agree with your last paragraph.  My last paragraph in the post you quoted, I said:

*At their worst, there can be terrible abuse such as the recent terrible example that has come to light in recent years in the Catholic Church.*

I chose my wording on purpose:  "such as the recent terrible example", meaning that my mention of that specific situation is merely an example of abuse, not that it is the only example, nor that the Catholic Church stands alone in this sort of problem.  I do choose my wording on purpose.  So I was saying, in a different manner, pretty much what you are saying, so we are in agreement and full realization of the nature of the problem.

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I was raised a Catholic and spent all but one year of school from first through 8th grade in it.  I feel very fortunate that I was not among those abused.
> 
> Yes, I am well aware of the abusive history of the Catholic Church.  The indulgences are particularly interesting due to the dichotomy between what we were taught in school and what I found out much later in life, and yes, you are correct that I was speaking only of the abuses of the boys that came to light in recent years rather than going into the entire history.  hat would have been far too long a post.
> 
> ...


Almost in agreement.  .  I believe all religions are money and power, but not all religions have the issues of the Catholic Church.  Non-christian religions certainly have power and money issues.  Religion is simply not needed by anyone but children to guide them in their early years.

Btw, how many boys were molested by priests and how many were not?  I think you will find the numbers not molested were far greater than the numbers that were molested.  I don’t think you were lucky.  I don’t think the molested boys were unlucky.  I do think that shit happens.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 31, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Almost in agreement.  .  I believe all religions are money and power, but not all religions have the issues of the Catholic Church.  Non-christian religions certainly have power and money issues.  Religion is simply not needed by anyone but children to guide them in their early years.
> 
> Btw, how many boys were molested by priests and how many were not?  I think you will find the numbers not molested were far greater than the numbers that were molested.  I don’t think you were lucky.  I don’t think the molested boys were unlucky.  I do think that shit happens.



"Lucky" can be used as a turn of phrase.  I can rephrase to meet your response: I am grateful that I was not among those who were molested.

I can't make a blanket statement about "all religions" because, as I have said many times, I don't know what I don't know.  There are many religions, and I have probably not heard of many more than I do know about.  Among those I do know exist, I am sure I know very little about most of them.

If we continue trying, I think we will eventually learn how each other writes, and be able to more accurately interpret what each is saying.  In my experience, some people seem to more easily understand each other's intentions and meanings, while others seem to need a bit more effort.  It involves both parties, rather than one or the other, which is why I refer to "we", rather than pointing a finger at "you".

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 31, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> "Lucky" can be used as a turn of phrase.  I can rephrase to meet your response: I am grateful that I was not among those who were molested.
> 
> I can't make a blanket statement about "all religions" because, as I have said many times, I don't know what I don't know.  There are many religions, and I have probably not heard of many more than I do know about.  Among those I do know exist, I am sure I know very little about most of them.
> 
> ...


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## chic (Oct 31, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I think that organized religion evolved as a way to control others.  Before that I think that religion was a way to explain the world.  The myths from the first reason for religion were incorporated into organized religion.



After belonging to and leaving many organized religions in my life, this is the conclusion I have come to also. Religion is used to control the behavior of others. A relationship with God can take place anywhere. It's precious and private and just as valid. Maybe more so. 

Perhaps I'm more spiritual than conventionally religious.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 31, 2020)

Time for...






Tony


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## Lakeland living (Oct 31, 2020)

The offering plates of course and to control the masses.


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## MarciKS (Oct 31, 2020)

I had a preacher at a baptist church that used to come to my place of work to see if I was coming to church. He didn't come back after my 5' tall boss got done with him. LOL


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## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

Mr. Ed said:


> I am confused; what is the real purpose of religion? Does religion lay the foundation for a personal relationship with God, in the Christian faith Jesus forgives sin thereby purifies the soul for God to live within you.
> 
> I've wondered if there are other ways to achieve the same outcome as in Christianity? Chances are, I can never prove or disprove this notion because is set as is, therefore to be reborn in different lifetime would mean giving up my present understanding of life and religion and start over again. To what end, I do not know.
> 
> ...


I am a Christian and have read the Bible a few times.  I pray to God and I go to church on a regular basis.  Once you make up your mind to accept Jesus as your Savior, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of you as a compass and helps guide you through life.  I have to stay in the Bible every morning by listening to a pastor (David Jeremiah) on tv and reading a little of the Word.  Starting your day off that way will greatly improve your life.  I believe that every person choses what they want to live by.  I chose God and the Bible.  It works for me, he has done wondrous things in my life and I could go on and on.  But, I respect everyone's right to decide what they want to live by or believe in.


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## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> They have to have something to help pay the bills to keep them open right?


Tithing, in my opinion, is between you and God.  However, the money goes to help those that need help and also to pay the bills..


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## tbeltrans (Oct 31, 2020)

fancicoffee13 said:


> I am a Christian and have read the Bible a few times.  I pray to God and I go to church on a regular basis.  Once you make up your mind to accept Jesus as your Savior, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of you as a compass and helps guide you through life.  I have to stay in the Bible every morning by listening to a pastor (David Jeremiah) on tv and reading a little of the Word.  Starting your day off that way will greatly improve your life.  I believe that every person choses what they want to live by.  I chose God and the Bible.  It works for me, he has done wondrous things in my life and I could go on and on.  But, I respect everyone's right to decide what they want to live by or believe in.



I am happy for you that this path is working.  I have a younger brother who is really deep in that path.  It seems to be a real center of strength for him.  The only difficulty is that he has obvious disdain for anything different from that path, rather than accepting people where they are.  Good to hear that you are not like that.  

My brother and I do get along fine, as long as I keep my mouth shut and just listen to him go on quoting the Bible every other sentence, which I do in the interest of maintaining family relationships.  I can accept and even be happy for my brother, but can't understand why it is so necessary for him to want to argue the rest of us into his belief system.  To be clear, most Christians I know are NOT like that, so I don't intend to insinuate that they are.  I just wish my brother wasn't that way.

Tony


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## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> *If love is everything, what is the purpose of religion?*
> 
> 
> To accommodate the offering plates


Religion, in my opinion, is belief.  The purpose in religion/belief is to have a relationship of some supreme diety, such as God.  Faith, hope and love and the greatest of these is love.  Religion/belief encompasses all three of these and so much more.


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## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I am happy for you that this path is working.  I have a younger brother who is really deep in that path.  It seems to be a real center of strength for him.  The only difficulty is that he has obvious disdain for anything different from that path, rather than accepting people where they are.  Good to hear that you are not like that.
> 
> My brother and I do get along fine, as long as I keep my mouth shut and just listen to him go on quoting the Bible every other sentence, which I do in the interest of maintaining family relationships.  I can accept and even be happy for my brother, but can't understand why it is so necessary for him to want to argue the rest of us into his belief system.  To be clear, most Christians I know are NOT like that, so I don't intend to insinuate that they are.  I just wish my brother wasn't that way.
> 
> Tony


Oh, I understand totally.  I went through that, I really did.  But, thanks to listening to the preachers I say I listen to, that is a no go for sure.  Trying to argue with anyone into believing the way you do is never a good idea.  There are so many different Baptist, Methodist, Catholic churches out there.  Each, possibly, with their own focus, but really, there are churches on every corner with a "name" on it.  I am glad to hear he is strong in his belief, but, like me, he will wake up one day on his own and see what he is trying to do on his own power isn't working.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 31, 2020)

fancicoffee13 said:


> Oh, I understand totally.  I went through that, I really did.  But, thanks to listening to the preachers I say I listen to, that is a no go for sure.  Trying to argue with anyone into believing the way you do is never a good idea.  There are so many different Baptist, Methodist, Catholic churches out there.  Each, possibly, with their own focus, but really, there are churches on every corner with a "name" on it.  I am glad to hear he is strong in his belief, but, like me, he will wake up one day on his own and see what he is trying to do on his own power isn't working.



Thanks for the kind response.  Unfortunately, I am not so sure he will change because he has been this way for many years.  He is not a new "born again" Christian, but instead has held firmly to this path since the early 90s as far as I know.  It is impressive how he has Bible quotes right there on the tip of his tongue for everything that comes up in conversation though.  He would probably be an absolute whiz at a Biblical Trivia Pursuit. 

Tony


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## MarciKS (Oct 31, 2020)

fancicoffee13 said:


> I am a Christian and have read the Bible a few times.  I pray to God and I go to church on a regular basis.  Once you make up your mind to accept Jesus as your Savior, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of you as a compass and helps guide you through life.  I have to stay in the Bible every morning by listening to a pastor (*David Jeremiah*) on tv and reading a little of the Word.  Starting your day off that way will greatly improve your life.  I believe that every person choses what they want to live by.  I chose God and the Bible.  It works for me, he has done wondrous things in my life and I could go on and on.  But, I respect everyone's right to decide what they want to live by or believe in.


He's the reason I got saved.


----------



## MarciKS (Oct 31, 2020)

I have never found church to be a very accepting place. I prefer to have a relationship with God by myself.


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## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

fancicoffee13 said:


> Oh, I understand totally.  I went through that, I really did.  But, thanks to listening to the preachers I say I listen to, that is a no go for sure.  Trying to argue with anyone into believing the way you do is never a good idea.  There are so many different Baptist, Methodist, Catholic churches out there.  Each, possibly, with their own focus, but really, there are churches on every corner with a "name" on it.  I am glad to hear he is strong in his belief, but, like me, he will wake up one day on his own and see what he is trying to do on his own power isn't working.


One more point, since you are so patient with him, that is wonderful.  One of these days, as he is getting so involved in his belief, he will wake up and see that you are to listen and wait, be still and wait on God.  The stories in the Bible never, never, talk of someone beating others over the head with God's Word to win them.  In fact, it is a big turn off, and guess what?  They stop listening!


----------



## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> He's the reason I got saved.


That is great!  But, I found when I listened more to people I certainly didn't agree with, I learned things.


----------



## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I have never found church to be a very accepting place. I prefer to have a relationship with God by myself.


I can understand that also.  As a matter of fact, there was a time when I chose to read the Bible from front to back by myself,  and I did it.  Some of it is totally boring Chronicles and Numbers.  But, it is good to want to do that search just between you and God.


----------



## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Thanks for the kind response.  Unfortunately, I am not so sure he will change because he has been this way for many years.  He is not a new "born again" Christian, but instead has held firmly to this path since the early 90s as far as I know.  It is impressive how he has Bible quotes right there on the tip of his tongue for everything that comes up in conversation though.  He would probably be an absolute whiz at a Biblical Trivia Pursuit.
> 
> Tony


I was too for many years.  But, I learned many things also.  I learned to do things even when my emotions said, "No way!"  Pray for him for however long it takes.  You have heard about how grandmothers always prayed for their children and grandchildren?  Those prayers never go unanswered!


----------



## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

fancicoffee13 said:


> One more point, since you are so patient with him, that is wonderful.  One of these days, as he is getting so involved in his belief, he will wake up and see that you are to listen and wait, be still and wait on God.  The stories in the Bible never, never, talk of someone beating others over the head with God's Word to win them.  In fact, it is a big turn off, and guess what?  They stop listening!


You will be a wonderful witness to him.  Patience.


----------



## tbeltrans (Oct 31, 2020)

fancicoffee13 said:


> I was too for many years.  But, I learned many things also.  I learned to do things even when my emotions said, "No way!"  Pray for him for however long it takes.  You have heard about how grandmothers always prayed for their children and grandchildren?  Those prayers never go unanswered!



I think we would end up with an uncontrolled feedback loop with him praying for me and me praying for him.  

The way I always heard it, prayers always get answered, but not always in ways we expect or want them to.  Anyway, good advice.

Tony


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## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I think we would end up with an uncontrolled feedback loop with him praying for me and me praying for him.
> 
> The way I always heard it, prayers always get answered, but not always in ways we expect or want them to.  Anyway, good advice.
> 
> Tony


Right on point.  And the prayer thing, you can't beat that!


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## jerry old (Oct 31, 2020)

You need to have read and studied enough of your bible to determine when the pastor wanders off topic 
and begins stating his personal opinion on topics.
Preachers need a great deal of monitoring.
Bible Churches read the scriptures, then the preacher explains any difficult points-they too wander off topic.

(I know better than to post of this or any other thread that involves personal opinions (not beliefs-opinions.
now i go away.)


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## MarciKS (Oct 31, 2020)

jerry old said:


> You need to have read and studied enough of your bible to determine when the pastor wanders off topic
> and begins stating his personal opinion on topics.
> Preachers need a great deal of monitoring.
> Bible Churches read the scriptures, then the preacher explains any difficult points-they too wander off topic.
> ...


This is true.


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## fancicoffee13 (Oct 31, 2020)

jerry old said:


> You need to have read and studied enough of your bible to determine when the pastor wanders off topic
> and begins stating his personal opinion on topics.
> Preachers need a great deal of monitoring.
> Bible Churches read the scriptures, then the preacher explains any difficult points-they too wander off topic.
> ...


They can and do just that.


----------



## DaveA (Oct 31, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> It is in the nature of most human beings to believe in a being superior to themselves, and to worship that being and hold it responsible for everything that happens. Much of the Old Testament holds 'God' responsible for events which we now know were not caused by him/her/it.  This is what is known as religion.
> Just my opinion.


Rosemarie stated; "It is in the nature of most human beings to believe in a being superior to themselves, and to worship that being and hold it responsible for everything that happens. "

I think that when I'd been in the first grade for a few weeks, that's the way I felt about the first portion of her statement - - -up until "and to worship that being".

By the time I was in high school I pushed the latter part of it when making excuses to my folks . - The part about my teacher "being responsible for everything that happens".


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## Rosemarie (Nov 1, 2020)

DaveA said:


> Rosemarie stated; "It is in the nature of most human beings to believe in a being superior to themselves, and to worship that being and hold it responsible for everything that happens. "
> 
> I think that when I'd been in the first grade for a few weeks, that's the way I felt about the first portion of her statement - - -up until "and to worship that being".
> 
> By the time I was in high school I pushed the latter part of it when making excuses to my folks . - The part about my teacher "being responsible for everything that happens".


Whenever anything bad happens, there are always people who ask 'Why does God let these things happen?' So, even in these supposedly enlightened times, many people DO think God is in control. People used to make sacrifices to appease the Gods. Didn't make much difference, bad things still happened.
I do wonder why so many people can't accept that mankind chooses to commit evil deeds, and that disasters happen naturally. Why do they try to blame an outside force?


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## tbeltrans (Nov 1, 2020)

My personal belief about why people have religions, as well as other explanations for the world around them is that many of us (possibly not all?) seem to need to make sense of things.  I saw some of this (not about religion) when I tried living in a small town.  People seemed to need to know all about me and if I didn't provide the scoop, they made stuff up.

As I have said in other posts I don't know what I don't know, and there is much that I simply can't know for various reasons.

What I mean by "I don't know what I don't know" is that until I have encountered some thing or idea, I don't even known that it exists.  There are also things that, even if I am aware of their existence, or at least claims of their existence (example: UFOs), I have no way of experiencing and knowing as solid provable fact that these exist, what they are, etc.  I think one area where we run into trouble is when we confuse BELIEF with KNOWING.  I can choose to believe a thing that I have no way of proving to my satisfaction, which is far different than knowing with absolute provable certainty that a thing exists.  I know for absolute certainty that the laptop that I am typing this post on, exists.  I have no way to prove with any degree of absolute certainty that God exists and in what form.

I BELIEVE in intelligent design because my forays into science and technology reveal to me an intricacy that would be difficult for me to describe and write off as a happy accident.  I say "for me" because I know of other people who come to a different conclusion and I have no solid proof to claim them to be any more wrong or right than I am in my own chosen beliefs.  However, I have to be honest with myself and not claim anything beyond my personal choice to believe all that I have seen is not a happy accident because I can't prove conclusively that there is a higher power that created all this.

There is far too much that I simply don't know with absolute certainty to be able to claim that what various religions believe is right or wrong, that God exists in the form that one particular religion claims and everybody else is wrong, that there is or isn't a higher power.  The best I can do is choose to believe in something or not.

Descartes nearly drove himself insane, grappling with these kinds of issues using his mathematical mind and logic.  I intend to remain sane. 

For me, it seems the wisest choice of action is to simply respect others and their choices of beliefs, and hope they will respect mine in return.

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> My personal belief about why people have religions, as well as other explanations for the world around them is that many of us (possibly not all?) seem to need to make sense of things.  I saw some of this (not about religion) when I tried living in a small town.  People seemed to need to know all about me and if I didn't provide the scoop, they made stuff up.
> 
> As I have said in other posts I don't know what I don't know, and there is much that I simply can't know for various reasons.
> 
> ...


You might just want to put me on ignore.  Better for you I am thinking.  Better for me probably. I do like you though.  I just feel, as you said something to the effect that as we get used to each other‘s writing style we will understand each other better.   Nope.  Not happening.


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## grahamg (Nov 1, 2020)

Given the power and influence of religion over so many centuries it is perhaps true to say most of us have been affected by it, in the sense at least our forebears will have had to, and we might not be here but for this influence, providing strict rules about marriage and many other things, (be it always for good or ill).    .


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## tbeltrans (Nov 1, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> You might just want to put me on ignore.  Better for you I am thinking.  Better for me probably. I do like you though.  I just feel, as you said something to the effect that as we get used to each other‘s writing style we will understand each other better.   Nope.  Not happening.



I don't understand your response, but if that is what you want, I will do that.

Edit: I did say "My personal belief about why people have religion ...", which means that this is only MY belief and does not reflect what others believe.  So I don't understand what there is to take offense with.  I also stated toward the end that I believe we should each respect the other's beliefs.  So this is where I am confused.  However, since you wish me to ignore you, we likely won't be continuing the discussion about this particular matter.  I honestly do appreciate your warning that our attempts at communicating won't work.  Thank you.

Tony


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## fuzzybuddy (Nov 1, 2020)

As an atheist, what is my interpretation for the purpose of religion?. I think you have to view religion in historical terms. Gods had purposes. We didn't know about the phenomena around us. Gods  of thunder, Rain gods, Fertility gods, etc. One by one, as we gained scientific knowledge ,gods were loosing their purposes. We still have one large unknown, and that is death. All religions today are death, and post death oriented. Religion offers a pathway to a perceived afterlife. I see religion as a mixed bag. While most religions are inclusive and benign, their practitioners are not. Zealots throughout history engaged in one long bloody, horrific purge after another.


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## Mr. Ed (Nov 1, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Purpose? You might just as well ask what it the purpose of the Sun ?
> The Sun just is, without purpose, but not without benefit.
> 
> Think of religion in that framework and ask what, if anything, is its benefit ?
> ...



Not purpose, but why religion? Does religion serve a purpose, if so what? As in can similar results be achieved without religion?


----------



## Mr. Ed (Nov 1, 2020)

Knight said:


> I cut out all the rest of your post to ask you if you could explain how you came to that statement.
> 
> It could be a true statement if all the violence and murder in various parts of the bible that are attributed to God continued on in those that are violent & commit murder.
> 
> What's your take on violence & murder being derived from God?


What do you mean derived from God, seriously I don't understand


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## Mr. Ed (Nov 1, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> As an atheist, what is my interpretation for the purpose of religion?. I think you have to view religion in historical terms. Gods had purposes. We didn't know about the phenomena around us. Gods  of thunder, Rain gods, Fertility gods, etc. One by one, as we gained scientific knowledge ,gods were loosing their purposes. We still have one large unknown, and that is death. All religions today are death, and post death oriented. Religion offers a pathway to a perceived afterlife. I see religion as a mixed bag. While most religions are inclusive and benign, their practitioners are not. Zealots throughout history engaged in one long bloody, horrific purge after another.


I do not support religion of any kind. Religion involves followers who are no better or worse than I am. I don't trust religion to shape my relationship to what I understand as God. God differs by what he is believed to be. For me, is the whole ball of wax, bigger and greater than explanation beyond, beyond, beyond. This is God to me.
The problem in defining God is assuming God is a single entity when indeed God is all. God to me doesn't necessarily need to be called God it is simply a way of identifying a whole lot of things in one name or term.   My spiritual relationship encompasses all I believe God is, what God does and will do by my faith alone.
Karma is God happening as I believe it to be.

If you think of God as the total accumulation of everything and everything that happens. About disease, death and suffering is life and nothing more. Life decides who lives, dies and everything else.  Life circumstance is determined by our ability to cope.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I don't understand your response, but if that is what you want, I will do that.
> 
> Edit: I did say "My personal belief about why people have religion ...", which means that this is only MY belief and does not reflect what others believe.  So I don't understand what there is to take offense with.  I also stated toward the end that I believe we should each respect the other's beliefs.  So this is where I am confused.  However, since you wish me to ignore you, we likely won't be continuing the discussion about this particular matter.  I honestly do appreciate your warning that our attempts at communicating won't work.  Thank you.
> 
> Tony


I am not offended, I didn’t say I was offended.  I just don’t understand what you are saying most of the time, and you agree with this assessment of mine.  You have pointed out to me several times that I misinterpret your words while you put words in my my ”mouth”-suggesting I was offended when I am not.

If you put me on ignore, and maybe you have already, I can respond to what I think you are saying without having to engage in endless conversations about how I did not understand what you said while you try and prove your point by reexplaining your point to the point of my forgetting what the point is.  As I said, I like you, I am not offended.


----------



## Knight (Nov 1, 2020)

Mr. Ed said:
in the Christian faith Jesus forgives sin thereby purifies the soul for God to live within you.


Supposedly mankind was made in their image. I take that as creating in human form mankind. If God was only good then eating forbidden fruit would not have changed his creation. But as time passed the subsequent or humans that were derived from the 1st. creation were, as pointed out in the bible destroyed by the benevolent god. 

Genesis 19 Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed

The Lord saw how utterly wicked people on earth had become; every thought was only evil all the time. So God said, “I will destroy from the earth the people I have created. And with them, the animals, birds, and creeping things” (Genesis 6:5–7).


Jesus forgives sin thereby purifies the soul for God to live within you. Either Jesus didn't purify some souls & the violent part of God is present in those that are prone to violence & murder. Or violence & murder is a conscious choice people make not to do with no influence from the supposed source of all mankind.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

Knight said:


> Mr. Ed said:
> in the Christian faith Jesus forgives sin thereby purifies the soul for God to live within you.
> 
> 
> ...


I think, the majority of people, make a conscious decision.  But there are those crimes of passion, even planned crimes of passion, revenge killings and the such.  If someone robs a bank and kills someone that’s one issue.  If you kill someone who kills your loved one, well, depending on the circumstances, that is a whole different ballgame IMO.


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## Mr. Ed (Nov 1, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I think, the majority of people, make a conscious decision.  But there are those crimes of passion, even planned crimes of passion, revenge killings and the such.  If someone robs a bank and kills someone that’s one issue.  If you kill someone who kills your loved one, well, depending on the circumstances, that is a whole different ballgame IMO.


I don't have an answer regarding the actions of other people. I can only be accountable for myself


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## Mr. Ed (Nov 1, 2020)

The devil all of the time
https://occ-0-465-472.1.nflxso.net/...xC4sdFP2VLxKs4n_CjggQfIWx9NIm3yce-Q.png?r=ffc


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## tbeltrans (Nov 1, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I am not offended, I didn’t say I was offended.  I just don’t understand what you are saying most of the time, and you agree with this assessment of mine.  You have pointed out to me several times that I misinterpret your words while you put words in my my ”mouth”-suggesting I was offended when I am not.
> 
> If you put me on ignore, and maybe you have already, I can respond to what I think you are saying without having to engage in endless conversations about how I did not understand what you said while you try and prove your point by reexplaining your point to the point of my forgetting what the point is.  As I said, I like you, I am not offended.



Thank you.  I thought I had somehow offended you.  I only put you on ignore because you suggested I probably should.  However, if I am to put you on ignore, I ask you to not respond to my posts because there is little point in having a one-sided discussion with me not seeing your posts to clarify points I made, as you interpret them.  I am not saying you should put me on ignore, because that is your own personal choice to do, or not, do so.  I am only asking that you not respond to my posts since I won't be participating in engaging you to discuss what you say about them.

Thank you,

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Thank you.  I thought I had somehow offended you.  I only put you on ignore because you suggested I probably should.  However, if I am to put you on ignore, I ask you to not respond to my posts because there is little point in having a one-sided discussion with me not seeing your posts to clarify points I made, as you interpret them.  I am not saying you should put me on ignore, because that is your own personal choice to do, or not, do so.  I am only asking that you not respond to my posts since I won't be participating in engaging you to discuss what you say about them.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Tony


It does not work that way. I have someone on ignore who responds to my posts all the time which is ok.  I do not mind, but I do not read their responses and I do not respond back to their responses.  See, it just goes and on.  Do what you want.  . I tried.


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## tbeltrans (Nov 1, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> It does not work that way. I have someone on ignore who responds to my posts all the time which is ok.  I do not mind, but I do not read their responses and I do not respond back to their responses.  See, it just goes and on.  Do what you want.  . I tried.



So have I.  I have apologized to you in that WWII thread even though there were two of us involved.  I have tried to explain and clarify what I said when you would respond.  I honestly don't understand what the problem is between us.  I don't have this problem with anybody else here, but this problem between us seems to persist, and we have both tried.  I am truly sorry it is this way and would rather just get along.

Well, as you suggested, I will put you on ignore, though I honestly wish it didn't have to be that way.  I feel we should be able to get past this sort of thing, but apparently, you don't.  I am sorry for that.

Tony


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

God, actually JC I think, was to be an example of unconditional love.

The love of most human beings is always conditional.  Except for people with Downs Syndrome.  They love unconditionally.  It is amazing.  Such people, who are genetically different from the herd, reaffirm that unconditional love is possible.

Parents have one purpose and only one basic purpose, to love their children unconditionally.  Many parents fail at this, some fail horrifically.  I suppose this is where religion can and sometimes does step in.  Filling a need for acceptance and love in a hard to understand world.


----------



## Pepper (Nov 1, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Well, as you suggested, *I will put you on ignore, though I honestly wish it didn't have to be that way.*  I feel we should be able to get past this sort of thing, but apparently, you don't.  I am sorry for that.
> 
> Tony


It doesn't have to be that way.  Ignore the ignore option.  It's childish, Tony, and you're not that.  Sounds like high school, admit it.  You can ignore someone without using that course of action.  The way not to take offense is, Just Don't.  Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to offer this alternative.


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## jerry old (Nov 1, 2020)

I would post my opnion on this topic, but second thought of: 
why would i wish to exhibit my ignorance halts such behavior. 

Belive it or not, their are those that do not agree with me 

Oh, heres a safe opinion, i think: Placing folks on ignore is a juvenile behavior.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

Pepper said:


> It doesn't have to be that way.  Ignore the ignore option.  It's childish, Tony, and you're not that.  Sounds like high school, admit it.  You can ignore someone without using that course of action.  The way not to take offense is, Just Don't.  Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to offer this alternative.


That’s fine pepper.  I was not explaining things very well so please jump in.  I like Tony and want to read what he says and want to respond, but it just doesn’t seem to work out well.


----------



## tbeltrans (Nov 1, 2020)

Pepper said:


> It doesn't have to be that way.  Ignore the ignore option.  It's childish, Tony, and you're not that.  Sounds like high school, admit it.  You can ignore someone without using that course of action.  The way not to take offense is, Just Don't.  Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to offer this alternative.



Thank you.  Remember that it was the other party's suggestion that I ignore her.  My problem with this situation is that I don't understand it at all.  I don't know what it is I am doing to attract such negative attention from this person.  I have tried to remain respectful while trying to clarify whatever it is that my posts are so unclear about.  If my posts are going to be frequently met with this kind of thing, I feel that just maybe I shouldn't be posting because this sort of thing takes the enjoyment out of what should be an enjoyable visit with others online.  Fortunately, I don't have this problem with anybody else here, but why it should happen at all baffles me to no end.

Thanks for your alternative proposition, Pepper.

Tony


----------



## tbeltrans (Nov 1, 2020)

jerry old said:


> I would post my opnion on this topic, but second thought of:
> why would i wish to exhibit my ignorance halts such behavior.
> 
> Belive it or not, their are those that do not agree with me
> ...



It is what the other party suggested that I do.

Tony


----------



## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Thank you.  My problem with this situation is that I don't understand it at all.  I don't know what it is I am doing to attract such negative attention from this person.  I have tried to remain respectful while trying to clarify whatever it is that my posts are so unclear about.  If my posts are going to be frequently met with this kind of thing, I feel that just maybe I shouldn't be posting because this sort of thing takes the enjoyment out of what should be an enjoyable visit with others online.  Fortunately, I don't have this problem with anybody else here, but why it should happen at all baffles me to no end.
> 
> Thanks for your alternative proposition, Pepper.
> 
> Tony


This is getting out of hand as things usually do.  I want you to enjoy yourself Tony.  I will no longer respond to your post.  This should solve the problem.  Let’s be done with this now.


----------



## jerry old (Nov 1, 2020)

Okay, us take the thread south:
You cannot determine if another is a half-wit if you don't read their post


----------



## RadishRose (Nov 1, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Thank you.  Remember that it was the other party's suggestion that I ignore her.  My problem with this situation is that I don't understand it at all.  I don't know what it is I am doing to attract such negative attention from this person.  I have tried to remain respectful while trying to clarify whatever it is that my posts are so unclear about.  If my posts are going to be frequently met with this kind of thing, I feel that just maybe I shouldn't be posting because this sort of thing takes the enjoyment out of what should be an enjoyable visit with others online.  Fortunately, I don't have this problem with anybody else here, but why it should happen at all baffles me to no end.
> 
> Thanks for your alternative proposition, Pepper.
> 
> Tony


Don't worry about it. Times seems to smooth things over.


----------



## tbeltrans (Nov 1, 2020)

RadishRose said:


> Don't worry about it. Times seems to smooth things over.



Thank you RadishRose!

Tony


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## tbeltrans (Nov 1, 2020)

jerry old said:


> Okay, us take the thread south:
> You cannot determine if another is a half-wit if you don't read their post



I don't think of the other person as a half-wit, but thanks for the humor. 

Tony


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## Warrigal (Nov 1, 2020)

Mr. Ed said:


> Not purpose, but why religion? Does religion serve a purpose, if so what? As in can similar results be achieved without religion?


In the past religion certainly served to bind communities together and provide social identity. Today, not so much, but in my little church there is still a sense of belonging  that is very similar to kinship. The congregation is the village that no longer exists in a modern city.


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## Ruthanne (Nov 1, 2020)

jerry old said:


> I would post my opnion on this topic, but second thought of:
> why would i wish to exhibit my ignorance halts such behavior.
> 
> Belive it or not, their are those that do not agree with me
> ...


Well, many of us have a child in us.And it's perfectly okay..


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## Mr. Ed (Nov 1, 2020)

My animosity for church and church leaders stem from my childhood and later in life when I got my license to preach. The problem was they granted me a license to preach, but learned during Deacon’s meeting church leaders never intended for me to preach in their church.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> Well, many of us have a child in us.And it's perfectly okay..


MATTHEW 18:3

”unless you change and become like little children you will never enter the kingdom of heaven”. 

Well, now that I’ve got that nailed, onward to other achievements.  I‘ve “miles to go before I sleep.”


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 1, 2020)

Mr. Ed said:


> My animosity for church and church leaders stem from my childhood and later in life when I got my license to preach. The problem was they granted me a license to preach, but learned during Deacon’s meeting church leaders never intended for me to preach in their church.


What is a license to preach?  Did you go to seminary or something similar?  I have no ideal how my father became a preacher.


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## jerry old (Nov 1, 2020)

Aneeda72 asks a question that we would like to know.

"What is a license to preach?  Did you go to seminary or something similar?  I have no ideal how my father became a preacher."

I knew a man that had a lic to preach, he sent $ 10.00 to an advert in the back of a men's mag: soon his lic arrived in the mail.


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## grahamg (Nov 1, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> In the past religion certainly served to bind communities together and provide social identity. Today, not so much, but in my little church there is still a sense of belonging  that is very similar to kinship. The congregation is the village that no longer exists in a modern city.


Much as it might seem so, the church and religions preached there are not things of the past across the whole world, as I'm told there are places where it is still growing, (parts of Africa maybe for one?).

There might be oasis's in some cities too, and some Eastern countries where religions were suppressed for so long survived didn't they.

We've read on this thread a personal grudge concerning some slight or other, can turn someone against all religion, or religious thought, but some great men and women have come forward, schooled in churches, ready to stand up against "prevailing thought" or whatever it is to be described as? I mean the alternative propaganda our kids are being fed by those anti religious zealots, as I'd describe them, (nice people though they might be otherwise!   ).


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