# Where to fit two tires (tyres for some)



## dbeyat45 (Oct 31, 2013)

I had a discussion this morning with a friend who had just purchased two new tyres.  The fitter recommended that they be fitted to the rear axle.

So, I thought it worth mentioning that the fitter was correct.  Whenever tyres are purchased in pairs, the new tyres must be fitted to the rear of the vehicle (this applies to all drive types).  It is potentially dangerous to fit two new tyres to the front with well-worn tyres on the rear.

Tell your friends .... you might save a life.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 31, 2013)

What's the thinking behind that, DB? I would think that first, you'd replace the two tires that are most in need of replacement, and second that you'd place them on the drive axle.

The only reason I could think of would be that placing them on the rear would lead to understeering, which is usually easier to control than oversteering. Of course, that applies only to people that don't know how to regulate their speed for their environment, so I guess that would apply to most drivers ...


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## Ozarkgal (Oct 31, 2013)

I don't know the reason for doing this, but have always heard that you should put the new tires on the rear too.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 31, 2013)

It depends I think upon whether or not you rotate your tires, and in what pattern, as well.

I've owned many vehicles of both front- and rear-wheel drive, I never rotated my tires because I took care of my alignment and suspension systems, I knew how to drive properly, and if I was getting two tires I put them where they would do the most good. If it was winter time I'd put them on the driving axle; otherwise I'd put them where they were most needed. 

Sorry, I'm not one to go along with conventional thinking when it directly contradicts my own experiences.


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## Diwundrin (Oct 31, 2013)

We're supposed to take 'em *all* off and toss out the kaput ones. Then switch the 2 best old ones to the front and put the  newies on the back.  It's not just a matter of take one off and replace it in situ.  Even I've heard about that 'rule' though I couldn't change a tyre to save my life.

We 'ladies' have a saying here to impatient men.  We just tell 'em to go out and rotate the tyres while we get ready to go out.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 31, 2013)

Wait ... if we toss them ALL out, then we only have TWO tires left, the new ones.

Even for Australians, I would think driving on only two tires would be difficult. layful:

And as for waiting for ladies to get ready - I could balance and blueprint a 454 by the time y'all are done!


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## Jillaroo (Oct 31, 2013)

_I have known that all my life as well_


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## dbeyat45 (Oct 31, 2013)

Phil, it's for handling safety.  I've delved into my browser history and found these references:

http://thetiredigest.michelin.com/every-day-if-you-only-change-two-tires
*If you only change two tires*

*You are recommended to fit the new tires (or the least worn)  on the rear axle of your vehicle, whether it is a front or rear, 2 or 4  wheel drive.*

         This ensures better control and handling in situations of emergency braking or on tight bends, particularly on wet surfaces.






          The loss of rear wheel grip is not easy to be controlled by the driver.
         On a bend, this means that the car oversteers and the rear of  the vehicle starts to skid. Drivers are tempted to brake and turn the  wheel too hard… and they end up going into a spin! Only an experienced  driver would have the reflex to do the opposite, namely countersteer and  accelerate.
         Loss of front wheel grip (understeering) is easier to correct  with the steering wheel, whilst taking your foot off the accelerator.
         Fitting the best tires at the rear, the driver enjoys a substantial gain in safety.  
​Coopers?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkXCGJ8EG60" data-cke-saved-href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkXCGJ8EG60">





Science Daily:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2008/1102-two_new_tires__safety_on_a_budget.htm

Continental?


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## SifuPhil (Oct 31, 2013)

Again, that works for inexperienced drivers, I agree. But there's something else to consider as well ... 



> ... This ensures better control and handling in situations of emergency  braking ...



Odd, since 75-80% of the braking in modern cars is done by the FRONT brakes. 70% of cars sold today are front-wheel drive, which gives priority for both driving and stopping the vehicle to the front end. How many people do you know that experience understeer or oversteer on a regular basis, as opposed to needing to stop suddenly? 

In an emergency braking scenario, the weight of the vehicle is transferred to the front, which also has the engine weight. THAT'S where you need good contact with the road, not in the back where the car is actually rising up.


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## rkunsaw (Oct 31, 2013)

These days I change all 4 but when only changing 2 the new tires should always go on the drive wheels.That is where traction is needed.Most cars have rear wheel drive so it was common to put the new tires on the back.

If tires are so bad you are worried about where to put them, just replace them all.


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## Diwundrin (Oct 31, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> Wait ... if we toss them ALL out, then we only have TWO tires left, the new ones.
> 
> Even for Australians, I would think driving on only two tires would be difficult. layful:
> 
> And as for waiting for ladies to get ready - I could balance and blueprint a 454 by the time y'all are done!



You're just geeing me up.  Take 'em all off and keep the best two....  but you knew what I meant.  



Plenty down here drive on two wheels, but they don't do it for very long. 



You wouldn't wear out as many tyres as us probably, better roads.  I got twice the lifespan out of 'city' tyres compared to when I moved to the bush and spent more time on dirt roads.


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## dbeyat45 (Oct 31, 2013)

So, rkunsaw and Phil, despite the demonstrations and the Michelin recommendation, you're not convinced ??  

The whole point of the message is that a loss of traction from the rear is much more difficult to control.  



> In an emergency braking scenario, the weight of the vehicle is  transferred to the front, which also has the engine weight. THAT'S where  you need good contact with the road, not in the back where the car is  actually rising up.


Think about what you wrote Phil.  Where is the traction being lost?


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## SifuPhil (Oct 31, 2013)

dbeyat45 said:


> So, rkunsaw and Phil, despite the demonstrations and the Michelin recommendation, you're not convinced ??



Not when stacked up against 35 years of driving, 2 years as a mechanic, 3 years in a rally club, graduating an executive-protection driving course and over 20 cars owned ... 



> The whole point of the message is that a loss of traction from the rear is much more difficult to control.



Ever go "drifting"? 



> Think about what you wrote Phil.  Where is the traction being lost?



The traction is being lost in the rear by a person who is going too fast for conditions, i.e. - the majority of drivers. I knew enough to moderate my speed for the environment I was in, therefore I never lost control like that, therefore I wanted the new tires in the front when I was driving a FWD vehicle, because chances were that I needed the extra traction for both acceleration and deceleration in a straight line. 

I was talking about straight-line emergency braking, which is a MUCH more common scenario.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 31, 2013)

I think if it's a front or rear-wheel drive the new tires should go in front for drive, steering and braking. And of course, if the rear tires are in that bad of a shape, get all new...worth the money and recommended.


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## dbeyat45 (Nov 1, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> I think if it's a front or rear-wheel drive the new tires should go in front for drive, steering and braking. And of course, if the rear tires are in that bad of a shape, get all new...worth the money and recommended.


SeeBreeze.  Even *you* didn't watch the EXPERTS .....   Here's another video (from Michelin):






This is really not a matter of opinion although some of you think you know better than the experts and the tyre companies.  Beats me.

BTW Phil:  My fifty-one years driving and more than twenty years in the motor repair game possibly trumps your ..... what was it again?  Remind me. 
Want me to count cars owned?  

Have a look at Formula 1.  Have a look at modern motor bikes.  Where are the bigger tyres fitted?


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## SifuPhil (Nov 1, 2013)

dbeyat45 said:


> This is really not a matter of opinion although some of you think you know better than the experts and the tyre companies.  Beats me.



I long ago learned not to trust "experts". I trust my own experience. It's the "experts" that tell us that pharmaceuticals are safe, it's the "experts" who tell us how to invest our money and it's the "experts" who presume to know how I drive.



> BTW Phil:  My fifty-one years driving and more than twenty years in the motor repair game possibly trumps your ..... what was it again?  Remind me.
> Want me to count cars owned?



Heh, heh ... you got me. But I'm sure our experiences, although sharing a common denominator, are probably quite different.



> Have a look at Formula 1.  Have a look at modern motor bikes.  Where are the bigger tyres fitted?



Specialized applications, and they are NOT optimized for wet-weather conditions nor meant for average drivers. I put Z-rated rubber on all four corners of my Vettes, but that doesn't mean that Joe Citizen should do the same with his Prius.


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## dbeyat45 (Nov 1, 2013)

> I long ago learned not to trust "experts". I trust my own experience.  It's the "experts" that tell us that pharmaceuticals are safe, it's the  "experts" who tell us how to invest our money and it's the "experts" who  presume to know how I drive.


So, now you compare drug companies and financial advisers to engineers, racing drivers and moi.  Shame on you Phil.  :stirthepot:

 Should you ever buy two new tyres and fit them to the front axle, be sure to let me know and I'll watch for the obituaries.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 1, 2013)

dbeyat45 said:


> So, now you compare drug companies and financial advisers to engineers, racing drivers and moi.  Shame on you Phil.  :stirthepot:



With the exception of _vous_, yes. Engineers are just as susceptible to group-think and publish-or-perish as any other profession. Drivers drive - they don't always understand the physics of a given situation. 



> Should you ever buy two new tyres and fit them to the front axle, be sure to let me know and I'll watch for the obituaries.



Your time might be better spent reading the funnies - I understand that _Ripley's Believe It Or Not_ often has sponsored stories from Firestone and that ilk. layful:


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## rkunsaw (Nov 1, 2013)

In many instances the best way to get out of a skid is to accelerate rather than braking. To get the most traction you need the best tires on the drive wheels.

These so called experts seem to think most people on the road don't know how to drive. I think people are smarter than they think. Knowing when to brake or when to accelerate is the main thing. Most people are aware of that and inexperienced should be taught that.

Real ?experts" never recommend changing only two tires. Everyone should have 4 good tires on the road.


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