# Is it TRUE bankruptcy affects employment?



## Patnono (Jul 3, 2019)

I've written in the past that I tried caregiver didn't work out, too physical for me. Well I'm looking into retail, I have experience in that field.  Someone wrote that you can't have any credit issues cause your dealing with money?  I live in California where their not suppose to hold your credit against You?  I have a bankruptcy on my record.  Doesn't seem fair for this to happen?  Just because you have a credit problem doesn't mean your going to Steal.


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## win231 (Jul 3, 2019)

Reminded me of some of the stupid question on an application or during an interview.  One of my favorites (during the interview):
Idiot:   "Hmmmm, you seem to have been employed at several places that went out of business.  Why is that?"
Me:    "Well, by "several" you're referring to a liquor store & a small sporting-goods outlet.  What could I have done to prevent them from going out of business?"
Idiot:   "Well....you were an employee at those two places."
Me:   "So....since you're an employee here, if this place closed, it would be your fault?  Goodbye.  I prefer to work where managers have more functioning brain cells that you have."


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## Patnono (Jul 3, 2019)

WOW, did someone speak to you that eau?  So disrespectful


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## win231 (Jul 3, 2019)

Patnono said:


> WOW, did someone speak to you that eau?  So disrespectful



Not the worst I've experienced.  A common request on an application is your salary history.  There are 2 reasons why they would want that info.  They use that to decide what you're worth - low salaries & no raises mean you weren't a good employee (to them).  They're too stupid to figure out that your former employers were cheap.  The other reason is to use that as a guide when they fix your salary....'why should we pay him more than he was paid before?'   Well....um....Mr. Manager....why do you think I left them?


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## Patnono (Jul 3, 2019)

win231 said:


> Not the worst I've experienced.  A common request on an application is your salary history.  There are 2 reasons why they would want that info.  They use that to decide what you're worth - low salaries & no raises mean you weren't a good employee (to them).  They're too stupid to figure out that your former employers were cheap.  The other reason is to use that as a guide when they fix your salary....'why should we pay him more than he was paid before?'   Well....um....Mr. Manager....why do you think I left them?


I've been asked that, the last job asked what was I expecting?  I say minimum wage, I'm a 64 year old.  Jobs are hard to come by, so u can't be picky.


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## hollydolly (Jul 3, 2019)

Looks like your OK Pat.... California is one of the 11 states where they can't discriminate due to your credit history...

https://www.selflender.com/blog/can-denied-job-bad-credit

BTW I'm shocked anyone can deny anyone a job due to Bad credit ..that would never happen here !! how is that encouraging anyone to get out of the financial poo, by denying them  the chance to work?


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## Patnono (Jul 3, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> Looks like your OK Pat.... California is one of the 11 states where they can't discriminate due to your credit history...
> 
> https://www.selflender.com/blog/can-denied-job-bad-credit
> 
> BTW I'm shocked anyone can deny anyone a job due to Bad credit ..that would never happen here !! how is that encouraging anyone to get out of the financial poo, by denying them  the chance to work?


Thank you for researching that.  It does seem so Unfair, people out there have credit issues who need a job to get on their Feet and fix their credit. I'd couldn't help but feel defeated?  Doesn't mean they can't do the job?  People could end up homeless?  The b people who live in these States, should try and get this reversed?


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## Keesha (Jul 3, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> Looks like your OK Pat.... California is one of the 11 states where they can't discriminate due to your credit history...
> 
> https://www.selflender.com/blog/can-denied-job-bad-credit
> 
> BTW I'm shocked anyone can deny anyone a job due to Bad credit ..that would never happen here !! how is that encouraging anyone to get out of the financial poo, by denying them  the chance to work?


I agree. It’s ridiculous.


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## StarSong (Jul 3, 2019)

Pat, my interpretation of your post is that you read somewhere that some retail employers might hold a past credit problem against applicants, but don't have any evidence or even a suggestion that you yourself have been discriminated against in that way. 

California is among the states that cannot hold findings in your credit report against applicants, other than in very narrow circumstances.  Seems to me that you should be ok to get a retail job, presuming that an employer finds you sufficiently qualified and well-suited for its needs. 

To answer why an employer might find credit history pertinent, I once asked that very question back in the 70s, when my credit was being run for a new job. Since I was going to be working with and selecting vendors, it was important that my employer knew my personal debt load and history wouldn't indicate susceptibility for accepting graft or "gifts" from vendors in exchange for steering business their way. I found that a quite reasonable and acceptable explanation.

There are many ways to steal from an employer.  Taking money directly from the till is only the most obvious (and least costly to them).


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## win231 (Jul 3, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> Looks like your OK Pat.... California is one of the 11 states where they can't discriminate due to your credit history...
> 
> https://www.selflender.com/blog/can-denied-job-bad-credit
> 
> BTW I'm shocked anyone can deny anyone a job due to Bad credit ..that would never happen here !! how is that encouraging anyone to get out of the financial poo, by denying them  the chance to work?



Employers have ways to get around such CA laws.  They're also not allowed to ask you how old you are.  I've had 2 employers ask me when I was 44.  I answered the question & got hired.  I knew that if I refused to answer, I wouldn't get hired & they could make up any reason for not hiring me.  And, they're supposed to have you fill out the W-2 form (with your birth date) after offering you a job, but some employers will have you fill it out while they're "considering" hiring you.


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## RadishRose (Jul 3, 2019)

Some car insurance co's use your bad credit rating to regard you as a higher risk and therefore charge more in premium!  I say that's BS.

People don't always realize their credit rating can affect them in ways they never dreamed. But I am not sure about actual bankruptcy.


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## hollydolly (Jul 3, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> Some car insurance co's use your bad credit rating to regard you as a higher risk and therefore charge more in premium!  I say that's BS.
> 
> People don't always realize their credit rating can affect them in ways they never dreamed.


 That's ridiculous, and appalling.  Surely by penalising people in that way, they're encouraging those who have bad credit history to drive without insurance ..

It doesn't happen here. !!

Obviously if you apply for  credit on something   and you have bad history, you may be turned down, usually are.. but not for a job, or important things like motor insurance...


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 3, 2019)

Your credit report affects many things.....from your car insurance rates to whether or not you are desirable either as a tenant or employee.


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## win231 (Jul 3, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> Some car insurance co's use your bad credit rating to regard you as a higher risk and therefore charge more in premium!  I say that's BS.
> 
> People don't always realize their credit rating can affect them in ways they never dreamed. But I am not sure about actual bankruptcy.



HAHA.  Reminded me of when my lease was just about up on my car & it was time for a new one.  My credit rating is not bad, but there was a dentist who did a terrible bridge & charged me $3,000.00.  After a year & complaints to the dental board, he gave me a refund.  Then the credit card company tried to charge me $900.00 interest during the charge dispute, which is illegal.
NOBODY rips me off.  They thought threatening to report it to TRW would intimidate me into paying.  It lowered my credit score a little & two car dealerships tried to use that as an excuse to charge me more down payment & higher lease payments.  I told BOTH dealerships where they could stick it - & also posted reviews on "Yelp."
When I went to the third dealership, I told them ahead of time that trying to extort extra money out of me wouldn't work, so don't waste my time.  I got exactly the deal I wanted on a new car - and LOWER down payment and LOWER lease payments than my 3-year-old car.

Yeah....it's a matter of showing them who's boss.....Ya don't mess with the best!


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## Keesha (Jul 3, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> Some car insurance co's use your bad credit rating to regard you as a higher risk and therefore charge more in premium!  I say that's BS.
> 
> People don't always realize their credit rating can affect them in ways they never dreamed. But I am not sure about actual bankruptcy.


I agree with hollydolly. That’s crazy.


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## Olivia (Jul 3, 2019)

Credit reports is just one factor in making decisions. It's not an all or nothing thing. When I had to decide on a prospective tenant as a de factor property manager, for instance, I have approved a new tenant even with a bankruptcy and those with"bad" credit. I've done that several times and they all worked out fine. It all depends on the circumstances. I think most landlords and employers do take more than credit reports into consideration. When those seeking employment and/or a place to live, and you know your credit report is not the best, then be prepared ahead of time with a good explanation. Another basic thing is to know how a former landlord or ex-employer will be recommending you, good or bad. Get on top of these things beforehand.


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## RadishRose (Jul 3, 2019)

You're not _denied _car insurance, but some co's charge you more if your credit is bad. Irresponsible. I don't agree with the poor credit rating school of thought

No ins co. encourages people to drive without insurance. 
1- it's against the law to drive without it in any state.
2- driving is not a right it's a privilege to those careful drivers who obey traffic laws
3 - you're stupid if you do it.
4- you cannot be refused insurance. If you are a terrible driver, you go into a pool where one of the ins. co. must, by law, write you a policy and you'll pay through the nose since you're a known high risk.

Finally, you can have you license revoked if you're really bad. I agree with all the above but not the credit rating


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## RadishRose (Jul 3, 2019)

Olivia said:


> Credit reports is just one factor in making decisions. It's not an all or nothing thing. When I had to decide on a prospective tenant as a de factor property manager, for instance, I have approved a new tenant even with a bankruptcy and those with"bad" credit. I've done that several times and they all worked out fine. It all depends on the circumstances. I think most landlords and employers do take more than credit reports into consideration. When those seeking employment and/or a place to live, and you know your credit report is not the best, then be prepared ahead of time with a good explanation. Another basic thing is to know how a former landlord or ex-employer will be recommending you, good or bad. Get on top of these things beforehand.



At least in CT. it is against the law for a former employer to give out any info on you beyond date hired and date separated. No reasons are allowed to be disclosed.


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## StarSong (Jul 3, 2019)

In CA, employers may also verify salary.  

The problem for potential employers is that they are now often buying "a pig in a poke" employee, which is why a lot of HR departments now check social media to learn a more about the person.


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## Olivia (Jul 3, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> At least in CT. it is against the law for a former employer to give out any info on you beyond date hired and date separated. No reasons are allowed to be disclosed.



Even if it's a good report?  Doesn't seem very fair for the ex-employee. There are many reasons for someone to have left a previous job.


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## win231 (Jul 3, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> At least in CT. it is against the law for a former employer to give out any info on you beyond date hired and date separated. No reasons are allowed to be disclosed.



Laws are made to be broken.  The owners at one retail outlet ripped their employees off on commissions - including me.  When I quit, I wanted to see if my former employer would violate that privacy law.  I changed my voice & called them, pretending to be another business owner with my application.  Guess what?  The owner FREELY gave out a whole bunch of negative information about me - all lies, of course.
I taught them an expensive lesson.....


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## RadishRose (Jul 3, 2019)

Oh yes, smaller businesses do it all the time. Hope you filed a complaint with the Labor Board! What happened @win231  ?


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## win231 (Jul 3, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> Oh yes, smaller businesses do it all the time. Hope you filed a complaint with the Labor Board! What happened @win231  ?


I not only filed with the Labor Board & got back wages, plus damages, I also reported them to everyone I could think of.  Within a year, they were out of business; not just because of me; they also ripped off customers & many people they owed money to.  They were later charged criminally.  Thieves never steal from just one person.


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## StarSong (Jul 4, 2019)

Olivia said:


> Even if it's a good report?  Doesn't seem very fair for the ex-employee. There are many reasons for someone to have left a previous job.



If the employee was a good one, the previous employer will often say something like, "She's a candidate for one of your open positions?  Lucky you!  She was a true asset to our organization and everyone was sure sorry to see her go.  I'd bring her back on in a minute if we had an opening and she showed any interest."   

When potential employers call my husband or me for employment verifications about previous employees, we wax poetic about the good ones.  So far we're batting 1000...  they've ALWAYS gotten hired by the new firm, including two who went with the Los Angeles Police Department after college.      

As for the law, in reality it kind of works like the enduring line from Thumper in the movie _Bambi_: "If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin' at all." 
Nobody's going to sue you for saying positive things about them.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 4, 2019)

It should only be 'a' variable taken in it's proper context at best. I understand some people have to declare bankruptcy given their particular options. But there are others that have abused bankruptcy for their bad decisions. I've seen both. I get if someone has a sudden job loss with a mortgage, kids etc. But if one over spent on credit cards or bought a car they had no business looking at that's another story. Regardless it should only be one of many other considerations.


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## Trade (Jul 4, 2019)

This thread reminds me of how happy I am that I am retired and don't have to ever deal with this crap again.


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## win231 (Jul 4, 2019)

20 years ago, I worked at one company for 3 years; not a single sick day or vacation day.  I started at minimum wage & stayed there; the owner was really cheap & ungrateful.  I started faxing resumes.  The owner's executive secretary (who was sleeping with the married owner & got big perks - new car, condo, jewelry, etc.) found out I was job hunting & she called me into her office & said, "Why are you looking for another job...aren't you happy here?"  I told her; "You're a secretary; that's NONE of your business.  Stick your nose back in your typewriter where it belongs.   And everyone has a right to better themselves."  (I almost told her, "Ya know, I'd tell you to mind your own business, but everyone here already knows your business; the world's oldest profession."

I was offered a better job & the owner was mad; he called me into his office & tried flattery to make me stay - he said, "You're the best employee we have."  I said, "well, if my replacement is also good, you might pay him accordingly." He also gave me a check for unused vacation & sick time & said, "Please don't leave."  I said, "Sorry, I gave my word at my new job."


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## RadishRose (Jul 4, 2019)

win231 said:


> I not only filed with the Labor Board & got back wages, plus damages, I also reported them to everyone I could think of.  Within a year, they were out of business; not just because of me; they also ripped off customers & many people they owed money to.  They were later charged criminally.  Thieves never steal from just one person.


 
Good work @win231 !


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## StarSong (Jul 4, 2019)

Win, I'm glad that you reported them.  Many of us have worked for shady employers over the years and it's good to know that some got prosecuted and paid for their shenanigans.  

I'd wager that every woman on this board dealt with some level of ****** harassment and/or discrimination..  I certainly came across plenty of it.  When I reflect back on some of the nonsense that I had to put up with during the 70s and 80s it makes my blood boil.


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## win231 (Jul 4, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Win, I'm glad that you reported them.  Many of us have worked for shady employers over the years and it's good to know that some got prosecuted and paid for their shenanigans.
> 
> I'd wager that every woman on this board dealt with some level of ****** harassment and/or discrimination..  I certainly came across plenty of it.  When I reflect back on some of the nonsense that I had to put up with during the 70s and 80s it makes my blood boil.



Not just women who deal with ****** harassment.  At an aerospace plant I worked at for 3 years, my supervisor constantly pinched & tickled.  I knew if I complained, I'd probably lose my job; she was also sleeping with the V.P.  & got away with everything - coming in when she felt like it, 3-hour lunch breaks, chatting with her boyfriend on the phone for 2 hours.


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## hollydolly (Jul 4, 2019)

win231 said:


> Not just women who deal with ****** harassment.  At an aerospace plant I worked at for 3 years, my supervisor constantly pinched & tickled.  I knew if I complained, I'd probably lose my job; she was also sleeping with the V.P.  & got away with everything - coming in when she felt like it, 3-hour lunch breaks, chatting with her boyfriend on the phone for 2 hours.


 This is true... my husband works in an industry where there's a lot of  Well known and not so famous Gay men, and ever since he was a lad he's been hit on by them... ...!!


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## gennie (Jul 4, 2019)

A bankruptcy history can also  affect your love life.  People meeting strangers through dating sites often do background checks.  Credit history is a part of a good one.


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## Ruthanne (Jul 5, 2019)

gennie said:


> A bankruptcy history can also  affect your love life.  People meeting strangers through dating sites often do background checks.  Credit history is a part of a good one.


Well, that really stinks!


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## StarSong (Jul 5, 2019)

Back in the mid 70s I ran a credit check on a fiance.  Some very weird stuff started to happen with money and I got nervous.  Holy macaroni, Batman, did I uncover a whole lot of debt!  Thousands in collection plus a bankruptcy!  

Although the wedding was less than a week away, I called it off and ditched him. It wasn't only the debt but the fact that he had hidden it and lied to me. 

Dodged a big bullet on that one.


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## win231 (Jul 5, 2019)

I had lotsa fun when a woman I met on a forum wanted to meet me.  She was planning a week vacation & she lived 3,000 miles away.  I said I would share her airfare & hotel costs.
She did a background check on me & sent me the results - but she got ripped off.  The printout correctly listed one speeding ticket from 10 years ago, but didn't list an arrest during a raid at a pinball arcade I was in after work.  Someone called police & reported drug activity & they arrested everyone in the arcade.  I was photographed & fingerprinted & sat in a cell for a couple of hours before they sent me home.

Many of these "Background Check" businesses sprang up, but most of them just take people's money & do exactly what anyone else with a computer can do for free.

Just for fun, I edited some real crime reports of serious crimes, substituting my photo & name & e-mailed them to her.  She LOL'd.


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## Butterfly (Jul 5, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Back in the mid 70s I ran a credit check on a fiance.  Some very weird stuff started to happen with money and I got nervous.  Holy macaroni, Batman, did I uncover a whole lot of debt!  Thousands in collection plus a bankruptcy!
> 
> Although the wedding was less than a week away, I called it off and ditched him. It wasn't only the debt but the fact that he had hidden it and lied to me.
> 
> Dodged a big bullet on that one.



Good for you, Starsong!  Great that you found that stuff out BEFORE you married him.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 7, 2019)

A poor credit history can certainly influence things in states that allow employers to see them ... poor history can mean you make poor choices and bad decisions to someone who does not know you ..

Many times how you are with money reflects who you are as a person ...

Not only that but an employer may feel if you cant handle your own money and financial life how can you be trusted with company resources..

The auto insurance industry proved a link between honesty and lower scoring individuals as a group ... you are judged by the company you keep


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## RadishRose (Jul 7, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> The auto insurance industry proved a *link between honesty and lower scoring individuals as a group *... you are judged by the company you keep


That would apply to fraudulent claims, for sure. I don't like it for safe driving ability.


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## mathjak107 (Jul 7, 2019)

Yes , fraudulent comprehensive and collision claims..especially where accidents involved no other vehicle or witness


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## StarSong (Jul 7, 2019)

Thanks for that input, Mathjak.  I didn't know why auto insurance companies would run credit checks, but it makes sense to me now.


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## StarSong (Jul 7, 2019)

Butterfly said:


> Good for you, Starsong!  Great that you found that stuff out BEFORE you married him.



I had an uncle who was a VP at an insurance company. I called him and explained what was going on.  He had me supply my fiance's address, SS#, date of birth, and maybe something else, I can't remember. He ran the check and it was so bad that he didn't have the nerve to call me back. He called my folks who were the ones who broke the bad news.

I called off the wedding on Monday - we were supposed to marry that Saturday. Let me tell you, there were all kinds of crazy stories involved with cancelling everything at that late date. For instance, I called and cancelled the cake. About ten minutes later the bakery called back to verify that I was cancelling. I told them that I was very sorry, but yes the cake was canceled.

The woman told me that it was their policy to double check with the person who originally booked wedding cakes when there was a cancellation because they'd had the experience of people (not the bride & groom) cancelling the cake and the hall before a wedding. The bride, groom and guests showed up and nothing was ready.

Can you imagine in your wildest dreams that anyone would be so vindictive?

True story.


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## Suzy623 (Oct 18, 2019)

StarSong said:


> If the employee was a good one, the previous employer will often say something like, "She's a candidate for one of your open positions?  Lucky you!  She was a true asset to our organization and everyone was sure sorry to see her go.  I'd bring her back on in a minute if we had an opening and she showed any interest."
> 
> When potential employers call my husband or me for employment verifications about previous employees, we wax poetic about the good ones.  So far we're batting 1000...  they've ALWAYS gotten hired by the new firm, including two who went with the Los Angeles Police Department after college.
> 
> ...


There are also employers who will wax poetic about an employee applying for another job just so they can get the 'trouble maker' off their hands. I had that happen once when I was hiring for an assistant. I called the hiree in for a 2nd interview just to talk with her again and see if she appeared to actually be able to do the job and whether I could work with her. The end of the 2nd interview I told her I would give her a call after I called in a couple of others for a 2nd interview. Little twit kinda went bonkers. Snatched up her purse and said something along the lines that if I couldn't make a decision now that I would never make a decision. Called the poet back to tell him about the reaction. He laughed and said she always throws tantrums like that. I hired someone else.


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## win231 (Oct 19, 2019)

Here's a newsflash for people who value credit history & credit scores:
In a bad economy, someone can be unemployed for several months through no fault of their own.  Their credit score & credit history might suffer as a result.   So....that's their fault & they shouldn't be hired in the future because that makes them a deadbeat?
And, some people are victims of fraud & identity theft - also through no fault of their own.  I've had people tell me, "You shouldn't have given out your Social Security number, so it's your fault your identity was stolen."  I always ask such dullards: "What do you do when you're filling out a credit application & it's required?  How about every time you apply for a job & fill out a W-2?  How can you make sure no one else sees those documents after you leave?  Or while you're working there.  How about when the Social Security or Medicare office mails you a document with your Social Security number on it & your mail is lost or stolen or misdirected?"
I have mistakenly received other people's mail - with someone's Social Security Number, address & phone on it.


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## mathjak107 (Oct 20, 2019)

here is another news flash .. pretty much at some point in our lives most if not all of us experience one of the big 3 .. divorce-illness -job loss .
 yet we we all come out differently ... many of us make choices and decisions leading up to these 3 financial killers  that are better than other choices we could have made ..

but in the end your credit history is part of who you are to strangers who have to evaluate you ...  it is like fighting a war and in war innocent people get killed . so fair or not you are judged by the company you keep . so yes , these credit scores can effect your life and you may be one of those innocent casulties .


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## StarSong (Oct 20, 2019)

These days applicants are typically complete strangers to potential employers, previous employers are legally prevented from offering anegative references, and numerous legal hoops are required to fire someone.  Therefore, potential new employers must use whatever means they can to get a sense of who the true character of the person they're considering. 

Social media postings, criminal and credit background checks, and other sleuthing results paint a fairly accurate picture of who we are. It's completely reasonable for potential employers to look at us through those lenses. Our choices define us better than any other yardstick. (We advised numerous young applicants to get themselves a professional email address using their names, and ditch goofy ones like: KeepYourHandsOffMySh1t@yahoo.com or _even worse_, addresses with misspellings like ItsDefinatelyMe@yahoo.com.) 

If I'd had my identity stolen and were looking for a new job, I'd bring documentation of the ID theft to interviews and get ahead of it. Explain what happened, where I was in the process of sorting it out, how it was likely to appear on any background checks, and offer proof that this was a recent, aberrant occurrence, rather than a long-standing issue. 

If my credit had been bad for many years, I would likewise bring an explanation for why and how that happened and proof of what I was doing to sort that out. Ditto if I had a criminal record. 

Potential employers view a direct, honest, organized, proactive applicant much more favorably than one who shrugs off these blots or says nothing in hopes that it won't be discovered.


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## WhatInThe (Oct 20, 2019)

There are absolutely legitimate reasons for bad credit scores. But at the sametime isn't there something to be said for those with a better credit compared to someone with a good credit.

Also shouldn't a company be able to see how a person's credit score is trending. In other words what has the applicant done with their numerical score since it bottomed out. Although not a good score they should get credit for improving it.

In the end the credit score in any form should just be "a" or one of many factors regardless.




I


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