# Vaccine induced tinnitus



## chic (Nov 7, 2021)

I had heard about this but never knew anyone who suffered from it until recently. One of my mom's neighbors was going to the doctor the other day and she asked him why and he told her he got tinnitus from the vaccine last May and it hasn't gone away. His doctor cannot help and sort of brushes him off.


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## Shero (Nov 7, 2021)

I have a slightly sore bottom from horse riding yesterday.  OMG!!  it's all the vaccine's  fault !!!!


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## terry123 (Nov 7, 2021)

My best friend's son suffered from  tinntius (sic) for several years and finally ended up killing him self as he could not take it anymore.  It is not the result of a vaccine.  He was such a fine young man with two small children.  There is no cure for it.  He and his wife tried everything they thought would help and was told he had to learn to live with it as others have to.  He drove himself deep into the woods where he loved to hunt and shot himself.  I still feel for my friend as she still tries to cope with it every day.  Its still hard for she and I to talk as when I call her I always would say "How is John Paul and Tim?  And then I think, oh no, John Paul is gone.  She says not to worry as she does the same when thinking about her boys.


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## Geezerette (Nov 7, 2021)

Tinnitus is extremely common and can be caused by many things. I have it myself. Sometimes worse than other times. Primary care Drs really don’t l Ike to deal with it.  Partly because of this one should consult an audiologist ( thie folks that fit and sell hearing aids)or Ear, nose& throat specialist. The story of the young man is very tragic.


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## Tom 86 (Nov 7, 2021)




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## Don M. (Nov 7, 2021)

Shero said:


> I have a slightly sore bottom from horse riding yesterday.  OMG!!  it's all the vaccine's  fault !!!!



It's kind of amazing and amusing to note the "excuses" the anti-vaxxers can come up with.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 7, 2021)

chic said:


> I had heard about this but never knew anyone who suffered from it until recently. One of my mom's neighbors was going to the doctor the other day and she asked him why and he told her he got tinnitus from the vaccine last May and it hasn't gone away. His doctor cannot help and sort of brushes him off.


Medical researchers have conducted trials and believe they have found the cause of post-vaccine tinnitus, and an effective treatment for it. A peer reviewed report is expected to be published in a couple of weeks. The British Medical Journal has published the findings, details of the research, and how the trials were conducted. There's hope!


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## Pepper (Nov 7, 2021)

I have tinnitus.  My mother did also, but hers was much worse.  She'd hear banging sounds and siren sounds.  Mine is continuous ringing.  It's only noticeable to me when I'm not doing much else.  I got mine from a really bad cough I had in the eighties.  I coughed so hard my head started ringing suddenly, and it has never gone away.


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## StarSong (Nov 7, 2021)

My husband has tinnitus which he attributes to many loud concerts and years of listening to music at high volumes.  It's an extremely common condition.


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## Judycat (Nov 7, 2021)

Yes I woke up the morning after I received the high-dose flu vaccine with diminished hearing in my left ear. Now I can't tell which direction sound is coming from and there is a rushing sound in that ear. It's been a few years and it has not improved. I also had the doc brush it off as no big deal.


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## win231 (Nov 7, 2021)

Shero said:


> I have a slightly sore bottom from horse riding yesterday.  OMG!!  it's all the vaccine's  fault !!!!


I hope you took something for your headache.


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## chic (Nov 7, 2021)

Don M. said:


> It's kind of amazing and amusing to note the "excuses" the anti-vaxxers can come up with.


I'm not making excuses. I'm stating a fact. I do not appreciate being called names like anti vaxxer. If my posts annoy you, hit the ignore option. That's what it's for.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 7, 2021)

StarSong said:


> My husband has tinnitus which he attributes to many loud concerts and years of listening to music at high volumes.  It's an extremely common condition.


It is common. But a study showed that both covid infection and the covid vaccine can cause tinnitus. Tinnitus caused by the virus and the vaccine is usually accompanied by a feeling of fullness in ones head and/or ears, and some patients said the sound in their ears is very shrill.

Great thing about the study is that scientists can now see the physiology of tinnitus and may soon be able to treat it effectively.


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## chic (Nov 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> It is common. But a study showed that both covid infection and the covid vaccine can cause tinnitus. Tinnitus caused by the virus and the vaccine is usually accompanied by a feeling of fullness in ones head and/or ears, and some patients said the sound in their ears is very shrill.
> 
> Great thing about the study is that scientists can now see the physiology of tinnitus and may soon be able to treat it effectively.


I hope they will be able to cure it. It's a difficult affliction to cope with.


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## chic (Nov 7, 2021)

Judycat said:


> Yes I woke up the morning after I received the high-dose flu vaccine with diminished hearing in my left ear. Now I can't tell which direction sound is coming from and there is a rushing sound in that ear. It's been a few years and it has not improved. I also had the doc brush it off as no big deal.


I know doctors don't do much for it which is why I hesitated to even mention it until I knew someone who reported this side effect.


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## Becky1951 (Nov 7, 2021)

Its funny how when a side effect of the vaccine is mentioned, and its a fact that the vaccine can cause that side effect, many here will not admit that its even possible to have that side effect with the vaccine. Instead they make silly nonsense comments about a sore a** and anti vax excuses.


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## Sunny (Nov 7, 2021)

Good grief, is there no end to the petty sniping on this forum, especially about this vaccine?

Chic, one of your Mom's neighbors says he got tinnitis "from the vaccine."  Immediately, your impulse was to start yet another anti-vaccine thread, maybe to justify your own phobia of this vaccine, or maybe you were deliberately trying to start a fight.

Of course, millions and millions of people have been vaccinated without getting tinnitus.  And your Mom's neighbor's problem could have dozens of other medical causes. But that wouldn't bolster your endless anti-vaccine case, so of course you didn't mention any of the rest of it.

I was curious enough about tinnitus to look it up. Here's what the Mayo Clinic has to say about the causes. I don't see a word in there about the Covid vaccine. It's not even mentioned as one of the medications that can cause it.

Request an Appointment at Mayo Clinic

Causes​A number of health conditions can cause or worsen tinnitus. In many cases, an exact cause is never found.
Common causes of tinnitus​In many people, tinnitus is caused by one of the following:

*Hearing loss.* There are tiny, delicate hair cells in your inner ear (cochlea) that move when your ear receives sound waves. This movement triggers electrical signals along the nerve from your ear to your brain (auditory nerve). Your brain interprets these signals as sound.

If the hairs inside your inner ear are bent or broken — this happens as you age or when you are regularly exposed to loud sounds — they can "leak" random electrical impulses to your brain, causing tinnitus.
*Ear infection or ear canal blockage.* Your ear canals can become blocked with a buildup of fluid (ear infection), earwax, dirt or other foreign materials. A blockage can change the pressure in your ear, causing tinnitus.
*Head or neck injuries.* Head or neck trauma can affect the inner ear, hearing nerves or brain function linked to hearing. Such injuries usually cause tinnitus in only one ear.
*Medications.* A number of medications may cause or worsen tinnitus. Generally, the higher the dose of these medications, the worse tinnitus becomes. Often the unwanted noise disappears when you stop using these drugs.

Medications known to cause tinnitus include nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) and certain antibiotics, cancer drugs, water pills (diuretics), antimalarial drugs and antidepressants.
 
Other causes of tinnitus​Less common causes of tinnitus include other ear problems, chronic health conditions, and injuries or conditions that affect the nerves in your ear or the hearing center in your brain.



*Meniere's disease.* Tinnitus can be an early indicator of Meniere's disease, an inner ear disorder that may be caused by abnormal inner ear fluid pressure.
*Eustachian tube dysfunction.* In this condition, the tube in your ear connecting the middle ear to your upper throat remains expanded all the time, which can make your ear feel full.
*Ear bone changes.* Stiffening of the bones in your middle ear (otosclerosis) may affect your hearing and cause tinnitus. This condition, caused by abnormal bone growth, tends to run in families.
*Muscle spasms in the inner ear.* Muscles in the inner ear can tense up (spasm), which can result in tinnitus, hearing loss and a feeling of fullness in the ear. This sometimes happens for no explainable reason, but can also be caused by neurologic diseases, including multiple sclerosis.
*Temporomandibular joint (TMJ) disorders.* Problems with the TMJ, the joint on each side of your head in front of your ears, where your lower jawbone meets your skull, can cause tinnitus.
*Acoustic neuroma or other head and neck tumors.* Acoustic neuroma is a noncancerous (benign) tumor that develops on the cranial nerve that runs from your brain to your inner ear and controls balance and hearing. Other head, neck or brain tumors can also cause tinnitus.
*Blood vessel disorders.* Conditions that affect your blood vessels — such as atherosclerosis, high blood pressure, or kinked or malformed blood vessels — can cause blood to move through your veins and arteries with more force. These blood flow changes can cause tinnitus or make tinnitus more noticeable.
*Other chronic conditions.* Conditions including diabetes, thyroid problems, migraines, anemia, and autoimmune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis and lupus have all been associated with tinnitus.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 7, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Its funny how when a side effect of the vaccine is mentioned, and its a fact that the vaccine can cause that side effect, many here will not admit that its even possible to have that side effect with the vaccine. Instead they make silly nonsense comments about a sore a** and anti vax excuses.


That bothered me for a while, but it's become so pervasive it's easy to just shrug it off. I follow the science, been reading articles about covid in well-established science and medical journals, and watching videos posted by experienced doctors, and when I find something that's backed up with data and charts and stuff, I post it. Still, the hard-shelled call it trash or idiocy or whatever.

Even medical scientists are being given a hard time, but hundreds of them are studying this in depth, and I'm certain people will calm down quite a bit by this time next year.


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## Becky1951 (Nov 7, 2021)

Deleted.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 7, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Good grief, is there no end to the petty sniping on this forum, especially about this vaccine?
> 
> Chic, one of your Mom's neighbors says he got tinnitis "from the vaccine."  Immediately, your impulse was to start yet another anti-vaccine thread, maybe to justify your own phobia of this vaccine, or maybe you were deliberately trying to start a fight.
> 
> ...


*Blood vessel disorders is o*n the list. Studies have shown that the spike protein, in both the covid infection and in the vaccine, is causing a blood vessel disorder - vessel dilation, specifically. Plus they can see how it's happening and they've figured out how to treat it.


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## Michael Z (Nov 7, 2021)

I have tinnitus that I don't find too bothersome. But when I had a car accident and was taking a lot of Aleve, it got very bad. It then toned down when i stopped with the Aleve. That falls into the anti-inflammatory category of causes.


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## Shero (Nov 7, 2021)

Don M. said:


> It's kind of amazing and amusing to note the "excuses" the anti-vaxxers can come up with.


Yes Don, I would be laughing at these anti vaxxers if the situation was not so serious. I wait to hear what the next excuse will be!


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## Shero (Nov 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> *Blood vessel disorders is o*n the list. Studies have shown that the spike protein, in both the covid infection and in the vaccine, is causing a blood vessel disorder - vessel dilation, specifically. Plus they can see how it's happening and they've figured out how to treat it.


Which studies? Please help us out with a link.


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## Shero (Nov 7, 2021)

The U.S Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) had reports from a handful of anti vaxxers who said they had sudden hearing loss (39 people) and 11 reports pf hearing acuity from vaccines.

As we all know, those of us who have any sense at all, VAERS only takes reports, they are *not* investigators. Anyone can contact them with any ridiculous story and they have to note it!!

As for tinnitus, this affects a great majority of the population. Can be caused by anything, anything! Murmurr, please stop making references to studies that do not exist. If they do, post the links so we can read about them.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Nov 7, 2021)

Shero said:


> Which studies? Please help us out with a link.


There is a long list of side effects from any drug. ****** started out as a side effect and then was repurposed. So yes, there are potential side effects with each of the vaccines, yet the death and hospitalization rate is almost non existent when compared to what covid, has done. 

Each individual should discuss their issues with their doctor, not with the Dunning-Kruger crowd on the internet.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 7, 2021)

StarSong said:


> My husband has tinnitus which he attributes to many loud concerts and years of listening to music at high volumes.  It's an extremely common condition.


It is very common, I have a mild case of it myself.  Usually in one ear only, hight pitched sounds that we all are familiar with from hearing tests.  Luckily I rarely experience it anymore, now that I have stopped using earbuds and headphones, and no longer work around loud machinery like I did for many years.  I agree with Don, it's amusing (in a sad way) what those who are set against coronavirus vaccines will come up with.


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## Shero (Nov 7, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> There is a long list of side effects from any drug. ****** started out as a side effect and then was repurposed. So yes, there are potential side effects with each of the vaccines, yet the death and hospitalization rate is almost non existent when compared to what covid, has done.
> 
> Each individual should discuss their issues with their doctor, not with the Dunning-Kruger crowd on the internet.


 Of course a discussion with the doctor is always best. Anything we eat or any vaccine could have a side effect for someone. That does not mean it is dangerous in any way.


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## MrPants (Nov 7, 2021)

_"Some researchers hypothesize that there may be a link between COVID-19 vaccines and tinnitus, but as of now, there isn’t enough research to confirm a relationship."_

This is a quote from the attached link. Seems to indicate that although numerous reports of tinnitus have been reported by people after receiving a Covid vaccine, it's still unclear as to whether there's a direct relationship between the two or not. 

It also should be noted that there are a number of possible serious side effects with any of the Covid vaccines, as there are will _all_ medications & vaccines. But these serious side effects are extremely rare and need to be viewed in perspective with the numbers of vaccine shots that have been given out world wide. 
I can't think of a medication or vaccine that has ever come to market, no matter how long it was tested and studied, that has carried a 100% safe seal of approval. That's just not reality.

https://www.healthline.com/health/covid-vaccine-tinnitus


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## win231 (Nov 7, 2021)

MrPants said:


> _"Some researchers hypothesize that there may be a link between COVID-19 vaccines and tinnitus, but as of now, there isn’t enough research to confirm a relationship."_
> 
> This is a quote from the attached link. Seems to indicate that although numerous reports of tinnitus have been reported by people after receiving a Covid vaccine, it's still unclear as to whether there's a direct relationship between the two or not.
> 
> ...


The fact that serious side effects may take some time to materialize, and more time to connect them to a vaccine, plus the fact that you can't "untake" a vaccine makes it a personal choice made by the individual; not some politicians or anyone else.


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## chic (Nov 7, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Good grief, is there no end to the petty sniping on this forum, especially about this vaccine?
> 
> Chic, one of your Mom's neighbors says he got tinnitis "from the vaccine."  Immediately, your impulse was to start yet another anti-vaccine thread, maybe to justify your own phobia of this vaccine, or maybe you were deliberately trying to start a fight.
> 
> ...


@Sunny I'm offended that you call me phobic about the vaccine. I have never called any member here phobic about covid. Maybe I'm the brave one? In any case, I am not phobic about the vaccine. I am justifiably concerned about an experimental drug with No Product Liability being injected into my body.


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## MrPants (Nov 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> The fact that serious side effects may take some time to materialize, and more time to connect them to a vaccine, plus the fact that you can't "untake" a vaccine makes it a personal choice made by the individual; not some politicians or anyone else.


What does my comment and actual link to the OP's original post have to do with personal choice or government intervention in those personal choices? Did I ever make a post saying you or anyone else should go get vaccinated? I don't think so.


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## Sunny (Nov 7, 2021)

Chic, sorry if you're offended, but those of us who have been reading your endless attacks on this life-saving vaccine could say the same thing. I don't know if all the nonsense you have written about it (your mother's neighbor said so-and-so, etc.) is motivated by fear of vaccines, by politics, by general neurosis, by believing the paranoid delusion that "they" are injecting poisons into our bodies so they can get rich, or what. But whatever it is, you're parading it here all the time. And since most forum members have received the vaccine (with no serious ill effects, usually with no ill effects at all), why is it a constant subject to keep bringing up, knowing that everyone will answer predictably?

Those of us who believe in modern medicine and believe the worldwide statistics that have repeatedly been published by reliable sources -
fortunately, most of us in the world and on this forum - believe the vaccine is a blessing to mankind. We have been vaccinated, and many of us are getting the booster.

Those who want to believe otherwise will do so. A fair number of them have died of Covid, or barely survived a terrible illness, which would have been preventable.  And they have spread it to other people. Normal life came to a screeching halt, and is just barely restarting, at least in part due to the stubbornness of those who refuse to listen to medical science.  I think it's obvious by now that no amount of arguing on a social forum will change anyone's mind.  All it accomplishes is starting fights.

 Your mother's neighbor has a very common ear complaint, and immediately came to the conclusion that the (hated) vaccine was responsible. Well, why stop there?  Let's start blaming the vaccine for acne, for high blood pressure, for arthritis, you name it.

You don't sound like a "troll," deliberately provoking arguments about a hot, volatile topic. But that is what you are doing. For what purpose?


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## win231 (Nov 7, 2021)

MrPants said:


> What does my comment and actual link to the OP's original post have to do with personal choice or government intervention in those personal choices? Did I ever make a post saying you or anyone else should go get vaccinated? I don't think so.


My reply wasn't meant for you.  Maybe my mistake or it somehow got linked to your post.  Sorry.


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## Feelslikefar (Nov 8, 2021)

Just what I think caused my tinnitus.

1. Little to no hearing protection around Jet planes early in my service.
2. My deployments where we were handed Mefloquine tablets to take for Malaria.

The taking of these tablets was not entered into my medical records because they were just handed out.
The VA noted that I had deployed to 2 different African countries during the late 80's and early 90's
and it was common to dispense this drug, hence my disability rating shows this.
That's when it really took off and has now decreased some over the years.

Learned to live with it, and my new hearing aids help quite a bit, as it makes the brain focus
on the external sounds and the audiologist did a great job setting up the ranges of the aids.

Not a cure, but sure helps.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 8, 2021)

MrPants said:


> _"Some researchers hypothesize that there may be a link between COVID-19 vaccines and tinnitus, but as of now, there isn’t enough research to confirm a relationship."_
> 
> This is a quote from the attached link. Seems to indicate that although numerous reports of tinnitus have been reported by people after receiving a Covid vaccine, it's still unclear as to whether there's a direct relationship between the two or not.
> 
> ...


Well said and true, all good and honest points.  Thank you.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 8, 2021)

chic said:


> @Sunny I'm offended that you call me phobic about the vaccine. I have never called any member here phobic about covid. Maybe I'm the brave one? In any case, I am not phobic about the vaccine. I am justifiably concerned about an experimental drug with No Product Liability being injected into my body.


All of your posts about the vaccines have clearly shown you have a phobia regarding COVID-19 vaccinations.  All your posts have shown no facts or science regarding these shots, you just grasp at straws attempting to look for a valid reason for all your allegations.  Your sources are non-reputable conspiracy sites that are known for spreading corona virus disinformation or questionable anecdotes.  That is very dangerous with this pandemic, but you appear not to care.  Anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers (regarding this particular disease) are holding the country back in fighting this virus and putting a terrible burden on our medical workers and hospitals, and you appear not to care.  How many dead now in the United States from this pandemic?


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## win231 (Nov 8, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> All of your posts about the vaccines have clearly shown you have a phobia regarding COVID-19 vaccinations.  All your posts have shown no facts or science regarding these shots, you just grasp at straws attempting to look for a valid reason for all your allegations.  Your sources are non-reputable conspiracy sites that are known for spreading corona virus disinformation or questionable anecdotes.  That is very dangerous with this pandemic, but you appear not to care.  Anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers (regarding this particular disease) are holding the country back in fighting this virus and putting a terrible burden on our medical workers and hospitals, and you appear not to care.  How many dead now in the United States from this pandemic?


^^^^ Programmed Robots have a right to an opinion just like the rest of us.


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## Tom 86 (Nov 8, 2021)

I believe my Dr. & the scientific studies they are now showing.  I was at my Drs office last Friday.  I had to fill out a bunch of papers for my right knee replacement.  He said it will be soon.  Like this past week, our hospital is still full of Conav-19 cases but none has died. 

One Dr. there is trying the Irovectin drug.  He said the people they give it to are better in two days.  So in a few weeks, the hospital will be a lot more empty.   He said he gives people with a positive test, fever & chills this Irovectin & they are better in 2 days. 
  So I believe my Dr. over all these?? out there.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 8, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Chic, sorry if you're offended, but those of us who have been reading your endless attacks on this life-saving vaccine could say the same thing. I don't know if all the nonsense you have written about it (your mother's neighbor said so-and-so, etc.) is motivated by fear of vaccines, by politics, by general neurosis, by believing the paranoid delusion that "they" are injecting poisons into our bodies so they can get rich, or what. But whatever it is, you're parading it here all the time. And since most forum members have received the vaccine (with no serious ill effects, usually with no ill effects at all), why is it a constant subject to keep bringing up, knowing that everyone will answer predictably?
> 
> Those of us who believe in modern medicine and believe the worldwide statistics that have repeatedly been published by reliable sources -
> fortunately, most of us in the world and on this forum - believe the vaccine is a blessing to mankind. We have been vaccinated, and many of us are getting the booster.
> ...


Agree.  I received my booster a week ago, last Monday, and feel wonderful, happy I was able to get fully vaccinated against this virus.


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## Tom 86 (Nov 8, 2021)




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## win231 (Nov 8, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> View attachment 193538


And it likely won't end at #3.


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## Shero (Nov 8, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> I believe my Dr. & the scientific studies they are now showing.  I was at my Drs office last Friday.  I had to fill out a bunch of papers for my right knee replacement.  He said it will be soon.  Like this past week, our hospital is still full of Conav-19 cases but none has died.
> 
> One Dr. there is trying the Irovectin drug.  He said the people they give it to are better in two days.  So in a few weeks, the hospital will be a lot more empty.   He said he gives people with a positive test, fever & chills this Irovectin & they are better in 2 days.
> So I believe my Dr. over all these?? out there.


. Ivermectin (correct spelling!)  is an FDA approved drug for use in humans to treat a variety of parasitic infections including parasitic worms, hookworm and whipworm. 

So if you have worms, do not worry, there is a cure! Won't be any use if you have covid!!!
.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 8, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> View attachment 193538


False and ignorant meme.


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## Tom 86 (Nov 8, 2021)

RHODES QUESTION OF THE DAY - How reliable is the covid statistics?
“it’s easy to get people to do more of something if you pay them to do it. that’s simple and straightforward.
hospitals got paid massive sums for finding covid cases. there was a huge pool of federal money that went to them and vastly boosted revenues. states got aid based on covid counts and covid deaths, so they found ways to get more covid on more death certificates. it’s just simple math. you do what pays.”

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/...SOlLgC3Pg9oVAaWC0I8M8s18vt0pV94w4odfgA0COMuek


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 8, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> RHODES QUESTION OF THE DAY - How reliable is the covid statistics?
> “it’s easy to get people to do more of something if you pay them to do it. that’s simple and straightforward.
> hospitals got paid massive sums for finding covid cases. there was a huge pool of federal money that went to them and vastly boosted revenues. states got aid based on covid counts and covid deaths, so they found ways to get more covid on more death certificates. it’s just simple math. you do what pays.”
> 
> ...


Your sources show how you're being suckered into disinformation, try reading real information and news from reputable sources for a change.  Stop spreading lies here, it's harmful and dangerous.
https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/disclaimer-and-reminder.62672/


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## StarSong (Nov 8, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> RHODES QUESTION OF THE DAY - How reliable is the covid statistics?
> “it’s easy to get people to do more of something if you pay them to do it. that’s simple and straightforward.
> hospitals got paid massive sums for finding covid cases. there was a huge pool of federal money that went to them and vastly boosted revenues. states got aid based on covid counts and covid deaths, so they found ways to get more covid on more death certificates. it’s just simple math. you do what pays.”
> 
> ...


A meme of two people in an office having a fictional cartoon bubble conversation plus a website that sports the subheading "bad cattitude" hardly lend credibility to any argument.   

That said, is it possible that a Covid vaccine might cause tinnitus in rare cases???  Sure. 
But let's not forget that the virus itself has caused over 5 million deaths across the world and has been at least a contributing factor in the deaths of over 700,000 Americans.   

As others have stated, no medication is perfect or without side effects. Numerous people have died from allergic reactions to antibiotics over the years, but that doesn't keep us from taking them when we've got an infection.

As for "adequate testing" - I'd wager that not a one of us has demanded chapter and verse testing protocol info for meds we've taken over the years - certainly not when in the hospital. The IVs get rigged up and we take our chances. Most of us barely skim the pharma printouts when getting a prescription, assuming we even bother to to give it a glance.


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## feywon (Nov 8, 2021)

There are always potential side effects of medications/treatments.  One has to way benefits against potential downsides.  Often i'm not willing to risk 'suicidal ideation' to treat a physical ailment i've already learned to cope with. 

That said, i can't help help wondering if the Otolith organs in the ear that are sometimes the cause of BPPV (Benign Paroxymal Positional Vertigo) might also play a role in tinnitus. i've had tinnitus for 8-10 years, usually is just a dull static noise i can easily tune out same as i used to traffic noise when lived in cities, tho i know some people have it much worse and for a variety of reason may suffer with it more. But i have noticed that sometimes when my BPPV flares up i will also get fairly musical sounding 'bell tone' sounds if i move my head suddenly side to side or up down (so no vigorous nodding no or yes for me). This has increased some (louder and more musical sounding, preferable to the static) with my first BPPV bout since getting vaccinated. But if the vaccine contributed it, then it is side effect i can literally LIVE with, which getting Covid and particularly if i had to be hospitalized with it would be bigger potential threat to my well-being. 

A recent report shows some 10,000 people caught Covid in hospital when there for other things--in 2020 likely before many people realized how serious the pandemic was, but still considering the resistance of some medical folks, and even for other reasons--hospitals not a favorite place of mine.
More than 10,000 patients caught Covid-19 in a hospital, analysis shows. They never made it out (msn.com)

In case anyone curious:
BPPV comes and goes and many if not most people can treat with a series of very specific head movements, which can be found online or request your doctor provide to you. The movements reposition the crystals within the otoliths organs inside your vestibular labyrinth.

From the MayoClinic site:
"Other structures (otolith organs) in your ear monitor your head's movements — up and down, right and left, back and forth — and your head's position related to gravity. These otolith organs contain crystals that make you sensitive to gravity.

For many reasons, these crystals can become dislodged. When they become dislodged, they can move into one of the semicircular canals —* especially while you're lying down*. This causes the semicircular canal to become sensitive to head position changes it would normally not respond to, which is what makes you feel dizzy."

The phrase i put in bold lettering is the main way to tell that the otolith crystals are cause of your BPPV and thus can be treated by the movements that reposition them. Until i read this the first time several years ago with my onset of BPPV i had wondered why it mostly struck when rolling over in bed or when i first laid down.  (Which i could live with cause less risk of getting injured due it like vertigo that strikes when upright, walking etc.) Usually i can make it go away after doing the exercises a couple of times in one 24 hour period, about 5-10 minutes per time.


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## Pink Biz (Nov 8, 2021)

chic said:


> I'm not making excuses. I'm stating a fact.* I do not appreciate being called names like anti vaxxer.* If my posts annoy you, hit the ignore option. That's what it's for.


Definition of _anti-vaxxer_​"A person who opposes the use of vaccines *or* regulations mandating vaccination. Some anti-vaxxers are vehemently against all vaccines. Some are skeptical of specific vaccines..."

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer

If the shoe fits, wear it.


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## chic (Nov 8, 2021)

MrPants said:


> _"Some researchers hypothesize that there may be a link between COVID-19 vaccines and tinnitus, but as of now, there isn’t enough research to confirm a relationship."_
> 
> This is a quote from the attached link. Seems to indicate that although numerous reports of tinnitus have been reported by people after receiving a Covid vaccine, it's still unclear as to whether there's a direct relationship between the two or not.
> 
> ...


He got it immediately. What can I say?


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## chic (Nov 8, 2021)

Pink Biz said:


> Definition of _anti-vaxxer_​"A person who opposes the use of vaccines *or* regulations mandating vaccination. Some anti-vaxxers are vehemently against all vaccines. Some are skeptical of specific vaccines..."
> 
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer
> 
> If the shoe fits, wear it.


I've had vaccines in my lifetime just as everyone else has. I am not an anti vaxxer but am not going to take this vaccine because it is an experimental drug with no product liability. That's all.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Nov 8, 2021)

chic said:


> I am not an anti vaxxer but am not going to take this vaccine because it is an experimental drug with no product liability. That's all.


Good for you. You have made your decision. Stick with it. There will be no black ops helicopters descending on you, wrestling you to the ground and injecting you with the covid vaccine.

So why the constant hysteria?


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

Shero said:


> Which studies? Please help us out with a link.


Go to "Drbeen Medical Lectures, Covid" on YouTube. There's a very recent lecture on there that's about an hour and a half long (which is why I won't bother posting the link), plus another one that's about an hour long, and both of them are about this study. There's also a video on YouTube where 2 other doctors discuss this study. If I remember right, their channel is called "Medical Lectures."

Or, you can google _Sweden vaccine study 2021_.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

Shero said:


> . Ivermectin (correct spelling!)  is an FDA approved drug for use in humans to treat a variety of parasitic infections including parasitic worms, hookworm and whipworm.
> 
> So if you have worms, do not worry, there is a cure! Won't be any use if you have covid!!!
> .


Ivermectin IS in use for covid and has kept people who _get_ covid out of ICU, and even out of a hospital. It has been widely used for treating covid in both India and South America, because they don't have an FDA and don't abide by WHO recommendations that don't make sense.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Nov 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Ivermectin IS in use for covid and has kept people who _get_ covid out of ICU, and even out of a hospital. It has been widely used for treating covid in both India and South America, because they don't have an FDA and don't abide by WHO recommendations that don't make sense.


https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavir...a-covid-treatment-protocol-1857306-2021-09-26


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> Good for you. You have made your decision. Stick with it. There will be no black ops helicopters descending on you, wrestling you to the ground and injecting you with the covid vaccine.
> 
> So why the constant hysteria?


Why are posts with concerns and/or questions characterized as "hysteria"? If Chic had posted "My neighbor has severe diarrhea!" no one would comment "Why are you always so hysterical?" It's only because she said "vaccine", right? There is no hint of hysteria in Chic's posts.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavir...a-covid-treatment-protocol-1857306-2021-09-26


Yes, they were pressured into removing it from the home kits they delivered to millions already. By then, the hospital numbers had plummeted.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Nov 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> It's only because she said "vaccine", right?


No, it is the repeated false claims, conjecture and frequent deflections. It is not the "My neighbor has severe diarrhea" but rather "My neighbor was given the covid vaccine and now has severe diarrhea AND people need to beware of those terrible side effects."


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> No, it is the repeated false claims, conjecture and frequent deflections. It is not the "My neighbor has severe diarrhea" but rather "My neighbor was given the covid vaccine and now has severe diarrhea AND people need to beware of those terrible side effects."


She's never said People Beware! She posts about her concerns. That _isn't_ hysteria.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Nov 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> She posts about her concerns.


Over and over and then over and over again. 
WHY?


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> Over and over and then over and over again.
> WHY?


Dude. If you don't know the difference between concern and hysteria, I imagine your life must get pretty chaotic.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Nov 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Yes, they were pressured into removing it from the home kits they delivered to millions already. By then, the hospital numbers had plummeted.


Studies also found there was no clarity on mortality benefit, no effect on length of hospital stay and recovery in case of Ivermectin.


Murrmurr said:


> Dude. If you don't know the difference between concern and hysteria, I imagine your life must get pretty chaotic.


LOL!! I do notice attempts at manipulation, which is all this is about.


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## Pink Biz (Nov 8, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> Over and over and then over and over again.
> WHY?


From another COVID thread chic said:

"My preaching annoys you but there are new people who join forums like these every day and they will see and will read. Perhaps they will agree."

Apparently, she's on a self-appointed mission to continually disseminate false/misleading information to those who are inclined to believe it. She is not the only one on this forum who has the same malign intent.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> Studies also found there was no clarity on mortality benefit, no effect on length of hospital stay and recovery in case of Ivermectin.


There were dozens of Ivermectin studies. Those with borderline or even negative results were funded by.... No, I'll let you guess.

For impartial studies (i.e., privately funded), I urge you to look in trusted science and medical journals. I admit, that isn't easy, it really isn't, but those impartial studies are out there.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

Pink Biz said:


> From another COVID thread chic said:
> 
> "My preaching annoys you but there are new people who join forums like these every day and they will see and will read. Perhaps they will agree."
> 
> Apparently, she's on a self-appointed mission to continually disseminate false/misleading information to those who are inclined to believe it. She is not the only one on this forum who has the same malign intent.


Will the hysterics never end?


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## Harry Le Hermit (Nov 8, 2021)

Pink Biz said:


> From another COVID thread chic said:
> 
> "My preaching annoys you but there are new people who join forums like these every day and they will see and will read. Perhaps they will agree."
> 
> Apparently, she's on a self-appointed mission to continually disseminate false/misleading information to those who are inclined to believe it. She is not the only one on this forum who has the same malign intent.


Fortunately, I have found the ignore button ( a bit late).


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## Tom 86 (Nov 8, 2021)

All I can say is all the people that are in support of the vaccine without a lot more tests must be ON the board of
Pfizer or Merk. Must be on the board of directors.  $$$$​I trust my Dr & what's happening at our hospital, NOT all these other so-called experts.


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## win231 (Nov 8, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> Good for you. You have made your decision. Stick with it. There will be no black ops helicopters descending on you, wrestling you to the ground and injecting you with the covid vaccine.
> 
> So why the constant hysteria?


You are confused.  The "Hysteria" you speak of comes from the vaccine pushers who ridicule anyone who doesn't make the same choice they made.


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## win231 (Nov 8, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> All I can say is all the people that are in support of the vaccine without a lot more tests must be ON the board of
> Pfizer or Merk. Must be on the board of directors.  $$$$​I trust my Dr & what's happening at our hospital, NOT all these other so-called experts.


Some of these pro-drug & pro-vaccine posts read like TV drug ads.


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## Shero (Nov 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Ivermectin IS in use for covid and has kept people who _get_ covid out of ICU, and even out of a hospital. It has been widely used for treating covid in both India and South America, because they don't have an FDA and don't abide by WHO recommendations that don't make sense.


It does not work! It is a desperate measure taken by third world countries because they are tired of buying the dead. It still does not work!


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## chic (Nov 8, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> Over and over and then over and over again.
> WHY?


I suggest you put me on ignore, dear. My posts clearly irritate you. It would be best for both of us.

Peace from chic.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

Shero said:


> It does not work! It is a desperate measure taken by third world countries because they are tired of buying the dead. It still does not work!


I need proof. Show me the data, studies, or peer-reviewed medical journal entries/reports. 

I've posted mine (see threads with the word Ivermectin in the title).

All studies on Ivermectin that were funded by major pharmaceuticals companies, or that included participants who get funding from or are employed by a major pharmaceuticals company do indeed report that anti-parasitic/anti-viral Ivermectin is not effective against SARS-COVID, even though complete and peer-reviewed trials show otherwise. It is widely believed that this discrepancy is because Ivermectin is a widely available drug that costs under $3 per dose ($14 for the full SARS-COVID regimen). 

Merk recently asked the FDA to approve their new anti-viral drug, which will cost $700 per dose. They got the approval very quickly.


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## Shero (Nov 8, 2021)

Yes, there is certainly a lot of hysteria among the anti vaxxers. More than the hysteria they are suffering from guilty conscience . Anti vaxxers know providing they have an okay from their doctor, there is no reason why they should not get vaccinated. But some still refuse blaming the science and the cat next door. Instead of keeping quiet they have to justify their hysterical guilty conscience and it is so annoying.
.


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## chic (Nov 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I need proof. Show me the data, studies, or peer-reviewed medical journal entries/reports.
> 
> I've posted mine (see threads with the word Ivermectin in the title).
> 
> ...


I wonder if it got such quick approval because of the price tag? More money in the pockets of big pharma.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

chic said:


> I wonder if it got such quick approval because of the price tag? More money in the pockets of big pharma.


There's a strong possibility.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 8, 2021)

@chic 

The video is 48 minutes long, but worth the time.


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## Sunny (Nov 8, 2021)

Big pharma again, eh?  I wonder if the old-style Russian communists on this forum who are so against the pharmaceutical companies for making a profit do the same amount of carrying on about "big hi-tech,"  "big auto companies,"  "big fast food companies" or any other business that happens to make a profit.  And of the types of business I just mentioned, it is undeniable that the big pharma companies are doing a lot more good for mankind than the others.  I don't begrudge them making a profit. They deserve it.

Just another ridiculous accusation from the anti-vaxxers.  If the world has been assaulted by a devastating killer, and the big pharma companies came up with an amazingly effective preventative that is safe and works for most of us, why begrudge them their profit? I have no idea what their financial picture is, and I couldn't care less. The vaccine works. Period.

Chic, you have invited whatever criticism you are getting by endlessly repeating false and meaningless accusations against this vaccine. Standing on a soapbox continually preaching your nonsense is the reason people are annoyed by it. And telling the sane people here to put you on ignore is no answer at all. We all know about the "ignore" feature, and it is up to us to decide if and when to use it, not up to you.

Try connecting to this link. It might let a glimmer of light in.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...other-sister-week-apart-it-didnt-have-happen/


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## MrPants (Nov 8, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Big pharma again, eh?  I wonder if the old-style Russian communists on this forum who are so against the pharmaceutical companies for making a profit do the same amount of carrying on about "big hi-tech,"  "big auto companies,"  "big fast food companies" or any other business that happens to make a profit.  And of the types of business I just mentioned, it is undeniable that the big pharma companies are doing a lot more good for mankind than the others.  I don't begrudge them making a profit. They deserve it.
> 
> Just another ridiculous accusation from the anti-vaxxers.  If the world has been assaulted by a devastating killer, and the big pharma companies came up with an amazingly effective preventative that is safe and works for most of us, why begrudge them their profit? I have no idea what their financial picture is, and I couldn't care less. The vaccine works. Period.
> 
> ...


But wait! Your reference source isn't YouTube or BitChute so it can't possibly be legitimate


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## chic (Nov 9, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Big pharma again, eh?  I wonder if the old-style Russian communists on this forum who are so against the pharmaceutical companies for making a profit do the same amount of carrying on about "big hi-tech,"  "big auto companies,"  "big fast food companies" or any other business that happens to make a profit.  And of the types of business I just mentioned, it is undeniable that the big pharma companies are doing a lot more good for mankind than the others.  I don't begrudge them making a profit. They deserve it.
> 
> Just another ridiculous accusation from the anti-vaxxers.  If the world has been assaulted by a devastating killer, and the big pharma companies came up with an amazingly effective preventative that is safe and works for most of us, why begrudge them their profit? I have no idea what their financial picture is, and I couldn't care less. The vaccine works. Period.
> 
> ...


I love you Sunny. Have a nice day!


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## Pepper (Nov 9, 2021)

There's a difference between making a profit and gouging prices.  The US pays way too much to big pharma.


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