# Assisted dying



## pleinmont (Jan 24, 2020)

I think people should have the absolute right to terminate their lives, with help if necessary, if they are terminally ill, or living with an incurable condition, which makes their existence a living hell. If it were legal here in the UK, I would be prepared to assist someone to die, having taken a course to ensure that I knew how to go about it.

What are the thoughts of others on this topic, which I realise is controversial?


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## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2020)

Yes, I have to say, I am definitely of the same mind as you. The right to end our own lives if terminally ill, or the right to give absolute and legal permission for another to help if the patient is too ill to do it themselves, should be a right,  everywhere.

Currently I think there's 10 states in the USA , where you can pay for assisted suicide and it's not expensive either ...there's the dignitas clinic in Zurich which is enormously expensive and to  which the terminally ill person has to make their own way  from countries  outside of Switzerland which to many is impossible ,  ..., 

..Belgium, One state in Australia (Victoria)... and Quebec (only) Canada...  In France palliative sedation is permitted but assisted suicide is not. ..

In some places as in Victoria Australia for example you have to have been a resident for a period of time and have less than 6 months to live...

In the uk, nothing, just suffer till you die...


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## Rojo (Jan 24, 2020)

I am against it.


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## pleinmont (Jan 24, 2020)

When my father was terminally ill in 2005, and in a lot of pain, my siblings and I insisted the medics increased his morphine dosage so he was no longer in pain, even though we knew it would bring about his death within hours, which it did.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 24, 2020)

I'm a firm believer in assisted suicide and the right to die.


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## Lvstotrvl (Jan 24, 2020)

I do believe everyone has the right to decide if they feel it’s time. For me it’s still in the back of my mind that it’s suicide n being brain washed during my childhood I’m not sure what I’d do. If I did something like that I sure wouldn’t go where my husband went! I guess I hope I never have to make that decision.


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## charry (Jan 24, 2020)

You dont get the choice in birth, and you dont get the choice in death im afraid.....


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## charry (Jan 24, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> I'm a firm believer in assisted suicide and the right to die.




I agree bea.....


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## StarSong (Jan 24, 2020)

Rojo said:


> I am against it.


Why?


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## Pepper (Jan 24, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Why?


Look at the avatar.  That's why.


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## StarSong (Jan 24, 2020)

California has a "death with dignity" statute.  You have to be terminally ill and medically determined to be within 6 months of dying.  Understandable from the state's perspective, which obviously has to protect people from hustling Granny's exit, but hellaciously long for someone bedridden from a stroke or other condition that robs them of any quality of life.  

@Pepper, I don't think God's feelings would be hurt if we opted out of suffering, but that's just me.


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## Pepper (Jan 24, 2020)

StarSong said:


> @Pepper, I don't think God's feelings would be hurt if we opted out of suffering, but that's just me.


I wasn't offering an opinion, just an explanation.


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## Rojo (Jan 24, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Why?


Thou shalt not kill. There are no loopholes.


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## Sassycakes (Jan 24, 2020)

I believe everyone should be allowed to do what they feel is best for themselves.


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## Lvstotrvl (Jan 24, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> That didn't stop the unpleasant Biblical god character, assuming it exists, killing and encouraging the killing of many innocents!


I think Religion n Politics are on the same page, you may not want to go there? jmo


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## treeguy64 (Jan 24, 2020)

Rojo said:


> Thou shalt not kill. There are no loopholes.


OK, so you're definitely anti-death penalty, too.  Good for you!


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## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2020)

Lvstotrvl said:


> I think Religion n Politics are on the same page, you may not want to go there? jmo


 Politics not permitted but no rules against discussing religion... although blood letting not actively encouraged..


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 24, 2020)

I don't have a problem with the opposing point of view.

The right to die and assisted suicide should be an informed choice/option for those that believe in it.

It should really not be a concern or threat to those that do not believe in it.


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## Rosemarie (Jan 24, 2020)

Several members of my family have died in great pain because of cancer. Given the choice, I'm sure they would have chosen not to suffer. It would be the same as putting an animal out of its suffering. I don't understand why anyone should object to it.


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## pleinmont (Jan 24, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> OK, so you're definitely anti-death penalty, too.  Good for you!


The death penalty is wrong, imo, but that is another topic. This thread is about people who wish to die due to their medical condition.


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## Catlady (Jan 24, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> I think people should have the absolute right to terminate their lives, with help if necessary, if they are terminally ill, or living with an incurable condition, which makes their existence a living hell. If it were legal here in the UK, I would be prepared to assist someone to die, having taken a course to ensure that I knew how to go about it.
> 
> What are the thoughts of others on this topic, which I realise is controversial?


I absolutely agree!  Euthanasia is allowed for pets, it should also be allowed for humans that want it.  I felt bad for Dr Kevorkian, he was way ahead of his time trying to do the right thing.


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## toffee (Jan 24, 2020)

yes I believe you can decide what is the best way out of misery -----people put down pets that in pain and no hope 
when u see some kids in twilight zone -is that living NO ''  I COULD NEVER WATCH A LOVE ONE SUFFER 

So I would take the prison sentence if any ' law has to change with this issue --


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## win231 (Jan 24, 2020)

People should have the right to end their lives when they're suffering with no hope.  But I really don't care whether or not such a law is passed because if I'm in that situation, I'll handle it myself, even though it would be rather messy.


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## StarSong (Jan 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> People should have the right to end their lives when they're suffering with no hope.  But I really don't care whether or not such a law is passed because if I'm in that situation, I'll handle it myself, even though it would be rather messy.


You make a good point, @win231.  When laws don't permit assisted suicide determined people find a way to accomplish it, often leaving a traumatizing scene for survivors and emergency personnel to cope with.


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## Lakeland living (Jan 24, 2020)

With Win231  on this one, short and sweet. I would not hesitate to easy my pain if I was in that situation.
  What is the law going to do, dig me up?
      A total different set of issues arise in the assisted death. Lost some friends to cancer , watched what 
they went through, what the family went through. I totally agree that those in that position should decide.


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## Sunny (Jan 24, 2020)

When a friend of mine was diagnosed with leukemia, she told me how happy she was to live in a state (Washington) which had a Death With Dignity law. She found it very comforting to know that if she wanted, she would be spared interminable suffering at the end of her life.  Fortunately, she never needed to use it, and passed away naturally, but I always think of her when this subject comes up. I would like to have the same reassurance; so far, my state does not have this law in place, though it did come up in the last election and was very narrowly defeated. Eventually, it will pass, as it does in any other civilized place.

Like with abortion or birth control, those who believe it is wrong do not have to use this option. But it absolutely should be there for the rest of us.


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## Sunny (Jan 24, 2020)

Charry, I don't think this forum offers any way to delete a note once it has been posted.  The person's name, and the fact that they sent a note, will always remain up there.  The only way to "delete" a note, once you decide to remove it, is to change it.  Sothe text of pleinmont's note got changed to "Deleted."  Awkward, but it works.

Or am I wrong about that?  Maybe there is a way to completely delete a note, name and all?


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## Butterfly (Jan 24, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> I don't have a problem with the opposing point of view.
> 
> The right to die and assisted suicide should be an informed choice/option for those that believe in it.
> 
> It should really not be a concern or threat to those that do not believe in it.



Strongly agree.  While we all have the right to hold whatever religious beliefs we wish, I do not believe we have the right to force those beliefs on others.


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## rgp (Jan 24, 2020)

Sunny said:


> When a friend of mine was diagnosed with leukemia, she told me how happy she was to live in a state (Washington) which had a Death With Dignity law. She found it very comforting to know that if she wanted, she would be spared interminable suffering at the end of her life.  Fortunately, she never needed to use it, and passed away naturally, but I always think of her when this subject comes up. I would like to have the same reassurance; so far, my state does not have this law in place, though it did come up in the last election and was very narrowly defeated. Eventually, it will pass, as it does in any other civilized place.
> 
> Like with abortion or birth control, those who believe it is wrong do not have to use this option. But it absolutely should be there for the rest of us.




   "Like with abortion or birth control, those who believe it is wrong do not have to use this option. But it absolutely should be there for the rest of us."


  I agree completely.........But then there's the control freaks.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jan 24, 2020)

We are mortal. That's not some theory-it's a fact. When it comes to the point when someone is no longer viable, and in pain; I see no reason to prolong life. The problem is determining the point when it's hopeless. There are a lot of interpretations about that. I do think "assisted dying" is diferrent from suicide. But it is a fine distinction, again, what is hopeless. and what is suicide? That's a hard call to make. Only the person, who is about to lose his life, can make. Yet, I think you  need an impartial third person to also agree.


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## Catlady (Jan 24, 2020)

There are two reasons why assisted suicide is not wanted.  The religion one where the god that sends you illness and pain wants total control, and the other reason is fear of being sued for helping someone commit suicide.


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## treeguy64 (Jan 24, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> The death penalty is wrong, imo, but that is another topic. This thread is about people who wish to die due to their medical condition.


Gee, thanks for letting me know.


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## Lakeland living (Jan 24, 2020)

This is what CANADA has installed as of 2015
  Please not the distinction here, assisted dying , not suicide. There is a difference.

*Learn more about Canada's assisted dying law and what it means for your right to a peaceful death.*
On Feb. 6, 2015, the Supreme Court of Canada sent a powerful message heard around the world. In a unanimous decision, the justices of the high court struck down the federal prohibition on physician-assisted dying, arguing that the old law violated the _Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms_.

Read the full text of Bill C-14, Canada’s federal law on medical assistance in dying
Fourteen months later, MPs in Parliament passed an assisted dying law in response to the Supreme Court’s decision. Bill C-14 formally legalized assisted dying and laid out new rules for how it could be accessed. The government called its legislation “a responsible first step” and says that Bill C-14 complies with the _Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms_.
Critics of the law, including a number of legal scholars, argued that some of the restrictions in Bill C-14 may be unconstitutional and would inevitably be challenged in court. They were right. Nearly two weeks after the law received royal assent, Julia Lamb, a 25-year-old B.C. woman, along with the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association, launched a _Charter _challenge against aspects of the federal assisted dying law. One year later, two Montrealers suffering from debilitating chronic illnesses launched a similar challenge in the province of Quebec.
As the leading organization defending Canadians’ end-of-life rights, we at Dying With Dignity Canada have been closely examining the rules in Bill C-14 and their impacts on people across the country. To help you navigate what this law means for your right to die with medical assistance, we’ve assembled a list of Frequently Asked Questions about Canada’s law on medical assistance in dying (MAID).


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## Keesha (Jan 24, 2020)

StarSong said:


> California has a "death with dignity" statute.  You have to be terminally ill and medically determined to be within 6 months of dying.  Understandable from the state's perspective, which obviously has to protect people from hustling Granny's exit, but hellaciously long for someone bedridden from a stroke or other condition that robs them of any quality of life.
> 
> @Pepper, I don't think God's feelings would be hurt if we opted out of suffering, but that's just me.


It’s the same here in Canada. We do have assisted suicide or euthanasia. If it’s good enough for our pets,  it should be good enough for us too. 

My God is a loving compassionate one who doesn’t judge us. We as humans added a human character that doesn’t belong ,..... in my opinion.


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## Catlady (Jan 24, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> *The death penalty is wrong*, imo, but that is another topic. This thread is about people who wish to die due to their medical condition.



In another thread I agreed with you that a vicious animal should be put down.  Yet, here you say that the death penalty for humans is wrong.  Two sets of rules, depending on the species? Should not humans, with their awareness of right and wrong, be held to a higher standard than animals, who know nothing about right and wrong?  I feel that humans who kill and have no chance of being re-introduced into the population, should be put down (multiple and serial killers, psychopaths etc).  Not arguing here, just pointing out that you judge capital punishment only according to speciecism.


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## PopsnTuff (Jan 24, 2020)

I'm all for it....for all the reasons listed in the above posts.....


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## win231 (Jan 24, 2020)

StarSong said:


> You make a good point, @win231.  When laws don't permit assisted suicide determined people find a way to accomplish it, often leaving a traumatizing scene for survivors and emergency personnel to cope with.


Yes, such laws don't leave people any choice.  If possible, I'd go somewhere where only police & trained personnel (who I'd contact beforehand) would cope with a traumatizing scene.  But, I realize that, in some cases, that may not be possible.


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## Gardenlover (Jan 24, 2020)

I plan on living until the end  
Fast Harley, short road, steep cliff.


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## hollydolly (Jan 24, 2020)

I'm just appalled at the fact that people just don't have the right in this country and many others to dispose of their own body that's causing nothing but agony and will never be of use to anyone...  and be permitted to allow a spouse or family member to assist them if they cannot physically carry out the suicide themselves.


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## win231 (Jan 24, 2020)

hollydolly said:


> I'm just appalled at the fact that people just don't have the right in this country and many others to dispose of their own body that's causing nothing but agony and will never be of use to anyone...  and be permitted to allow a spouse or family member to assist them if they cannot physically carry out the suicide themselves.


Maybe they're concerned about people abusing that right - like Mr. Kevorkian did.


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## Keesha (Jan 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> Maybe they're concerned about people abusing that right - like Mr. Kevorkian did.


Or maybe it’s because there’s too much money involved in keeping people alive regardless of the quality of life.


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## Ladybj (Jan 24, 2020)

I told my hubby I do not want to live on a machine.  I am one that enjoy life and when I am lying in a bed near death, I do not want to be kept alive on a machine..WHY???   I remember when my mom was dying..I ask the nurse why are people kept alive on machines, she said its for the family.  I also don't want to be kept alive on different meds either..especially if they are not improving my health.  Geez..   I miss my mom. She was 86 when she passed away but she gave up on life when she was late 60.  She did not do too much of anything but lay in the bed.  However, as I have reached 60, I understand she had a lot of pain and unresolved issues.  God Bless her.  As long as I have breath and able to move, I will DANCE and enjoy life.


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## Repondering (Jan 24, 2020)

I'm in favor of having the right to end a hopeless, terminal and painful illness.  I certainly considered it during the last, awful three years of my mother's life.  She however, rejected the idea.  So nature took its course. 
For my part I plan to live a meaningful life and die a glad death curious about what comes next.  If I must, I can end things quickly and I'm afraid messily.  If circumstances allow I'll call emergency services beforehand to give the first responders a warning to be ready for a distasteful scenario.
The burial and headstone are already paid for.....with a bit of luck they won't be needed for another 25 years or so.


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## Ladybj (Jan 24, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Or maybe it’s because there’s too much money involved in keeping people alive regardless of the quality of life.


SPEAK ON IT Keesha!!!!!!!!!!


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## Keesha (Jan 24, 2020)

Ladybj said:


> SPEAK ON IT Keesha!!!!!!!!!!


There’s a lot of money to be made from aging seniors. The pressure to put aging seniors in nursing homes is staggeringly scary. Sure it might be for their own safety but there’s an entire lucrative business in caring for sick aging seniors especially ones with dementia who can no longer speak for themselves. 

Money always talks and wins over moral obligation every time and is somehow justified as doing the ‘right’ thing regardless of what the senior truly wants. It’s not really something I want to go on about as it’s depressing stuff. Everyone should have the option of assisted suicide when their life becomes too painful for them to handle. It’s not just hard on the deteriorating patients but is difficult for the family members who have to witness it. 

I know without a doubt that my mom never wanted to live where strangers had to change her diapers. She tried to tell me in so many ways but unfortunately I had no power to help and it haunts me to this day. 

I’m getting documents drawn up to state my exact wishes if this ever happens to me. I’m all for being humanely put down and the money that’s saved keeping me alive , I’ll donate to the humane society or some other charity and I’m ok with people not liking it.


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## Lakeland living (Jan 25, 2020)

Well said Keesha. Years ago I had it put on file for no resuscitation. No living on machines etc.
 I was surprised to find out how many people really disagreed with this.


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## Rojo (Jan 25, 2020)

Keesha said:


> My God is a loving compassionate one who doesn’t judge us. We as humans added a human character that doesn’t belong ,..... in my opinion.



I have a question. Are/were your parents loving and compassionate? Did they judge you when you didn't obey rules or misbehaved? Christians, many, are taught that God is our father. He does love us, is longsuffering, but yes He judges us when we get out of line. He wants to correct us and have us correct our behavior..... as any good parent would.


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## Rojo (Jan 25, 2020)

Lakeland living said:


> Well said Keesha. Years ago I had it put on file for no resuscitation. No living on machines etc.
> I was surprised to find out how many people really disagreed with this.


I don't know about everyone else, but I did not disagree with this. There is a difference in "assisting dying" and "prolonging life".


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## pleinmont (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> I have a question. Are/were your parents loving and compassionate? Did they judge you when you didn't obey rules or misbehaved? Christians, many, are taught that God is our father. He does love us, is longsuffering, but yes He judges us when we get out of line. He wants to correct us and have us correct our behavior..... as any good parent would.



The god of the Bible is an evil character if what is attributed to it has an credibility.


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## Rojo (Jan 25, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> The god of the Bible is an evil character if what is attributed to it has an credibility.


You are entitled to your opinion. Mistaken, but you still have the right.


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## Fyrefox (Jan 25, 2020)

In the end stages of Parkinson's disease in a nursing home as his cognition flickered in and out, my father in a lucid phase begged my sister to bring him poison.  She could not, of course, but death finally came as he wanted it to while we faced the agonizing decision of whether to install a feeding tube, which would have been against his wishes.  When the quality of life is nill and there is no hope of recovery or improvement, assisted dying I believe should be an option, one which I'd choose for myself...


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## pleinmont (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> You are entitled to your opinion. Mistaken, but you still have the right.



Have you ever read the not so good book?


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## StarSong (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> I have a question. Are/were your parents loving and compassionate? Did they judge you when you didn't obey rules or misbehaved? Christians, many, are taught that God is our father. He does love us, is longsuffering, but yes He judges us when we get out of line. He wants to correct us and have us correct our behavior..... as any good parent would.


Of course parents judge our behavior, but they also take context into consideration and DEFINITELY don't hold mistakes against us for all of eternity, which would qualify as child abuse.

That's why kids get time-outs, groundings, and restricted privileges for relatively short periods of time.  Even kids who bite, kick, lie, etc., get a clean slate after a relatively short time.  And that happens without the intervention of a divine whipping boy assuaging a parent thirsty for vengeance.


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## Rojo (Jan 25, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> Have you ever read the not so good book?


With all due respect, you continue to bait me. I'm not interested.


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## Rojo (Jan 25, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Of course parents judge our behavior, but they also take context into consideration and DEFINITELY don't hold mistakes against us for all of eternity, which would qualify as child abuse.
> 
> That's why kids get time-outs, groundings, and restricted privileges for relatively short periods of time.  Even kids who bite, kick, lie, etc., get a clean slate after a relatively short time.  And that happens without the intervention of a divine whipping boy assuaging a parent thirsty for vengeance.


God is willing to forgive those who ask and repent. The only way a person suffers for all eternity is when they deny Him.


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## pleinmont (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> With all due respect, you continue to bait me. I'm not interested.


You told me I was mistaken about my opinion of the less than credible statement you made, surely I had a right to reply?


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## Rojo (Jan 25, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> You told me I was mistaken about my opinion of the less than credible statement you made, surely I had a right to reply?


Calling God evil was baiting. Have a nice day.


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## pleinmont (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> Calling God evil was baiting. Have a nice day.



The Biblical god is evil if the deeds attributed to it are true, dear old Satan could be no worse. Fortunately it is unlikely either actually exist. If you don't like my posts ignore them.


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## Catlady (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> *God is willing to forgive those who ask and repent*. The only way a person suffers for all eternity is when they deny Him.


How do you know that, did you manage to have a conversation with god?  If I murder someone in cold blood and ask and repent, will I be forgiven?  Will all the repenting murderers on death row be forgiven and taken to heaven along people who were good humans all their lives?


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## StarSong (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> God is willing to forgive those who ask and repent. The only way a person suffers for all eternity is when they deny Him.


I forgave my children even when they didn't ask for forgiveness nor repent.  That's what a loving parent does.


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## Rojo (Jan 25, 2020)

Catlady said:


> How do you know that, did you manage to have a conversation with god?  If I murder someone in cold blood and ask and repent, will I be forgiven?  Will all the repenting murderers on death row be forgiven and taken to heaven along people who were good humans all their lives?


I read His Word. Yes, murderers can be forgiven if they ask Jesus into their heart. As for "all the good humans", good does not get them to Heaven. Belief in Christ is the only way there.


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## rgp (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> God is willing to forgive those who ask and repent. The only way a person suffers for all eternity is when they deny Him.



 So he's a control freak....his way or the highway.........

  BTW...where is he, never seen him.


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## Rojo (Jan 25, 2020)

You know.... I had thought this might be a decent forum..... without Christianity haters. Seems I was wrong. At every turn, someone comments rudely. "Oh well, it was worth a try. Enjoy your place.


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## rgp (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> I read His Word. Yes, murderers can be forgiven if they ask Jesus into their heart. As for "all the good humans", good does not get them to Heaven. Belief in Christ is the only way there.




 Again, control freak. 

One can be the finest person on the planet........but disbelieve ! And your out of the club, can't get in the clubhouse.......


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## rgp (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> You know.... I had thought this might be a decent forum..... without Christianity haters. Seems I was wrong. At every turn, someone comments rudely. "Oh well, it was worth a try. Enjoy your place.




 No one said that they hate, as I read it. They just don't believe.

 "might be a decent forum.."

 So it's only a decent forum if.......the participants believe & agree with you?


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## StarSong (Jan 25, 2020)

Not haters.  Just find it impossible to reconcile the idea of an all loving, all merciful, omnipotent Creator who is equally wrathful, vengeful, and obsessed with trivialities.


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## Catlady (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> I read His Word. Yes, murderers can be forgiven if they ask Jesus into their heart. As for "all the good humans", good does not get them to Heaven. Belief in Christ is the only way there.


  Geez, I'm going to go out and murder someone and then believe in Christ.  What's the sense in being a good person.  Let the good times roll!


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## pleinmont (Jan 25, 2020)

One of the sickest beliefs is that a person who has been wicked in this life, could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven, yet an atheist who has been a good, decent person would go to hell.


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## StarSong (Jan 25, 2020)

Catlady said:


> Geez, I'm going to go out and murder someone and then believe in Christ.  What's the sense in being a good person.  Let the good times roll!


Word was that Hitler was a Christian.  Guess he made the cut but Ghandi didn't.  Go figure....


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## pleinmont (Jan 25, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Word was that Hitler was a Christian.  Guess he made the cut but Ghandi didn't.  Go figure....



Crazy isn't it?


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## Catlady (Jan 25, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> One of the sickest beliefs is that a person who has been wicked in this life, could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven, yet an atheist who has been a good, decent person would go to hell.


ALL religions believe THEIR members will go to heaven and everyone else will go to hell.  Since I believe in a creator (Deist) but not any messiah I guess I will go to hell, too.


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## win231 (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> You know.... I had thought this might be a decent forum..... without Christianity haters. Seems I was wrong. At every turn, someone comments rudely. "Oh well, it was worth a try. Enjoy your place.


Well, maybe they don't like someone turning posts into religious sermons?


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## win231 (Jan 25, 2020)

rgp said:


> No one said that they hate, as I read it. They just don't believe.
> 
> "might be a decent forum.."
> 
> So it's only a decent forum if.......the participants believe & agree with you?





StarSong said:


> Word was that Hitler was a Christian.  Guess he made the cut but Ghandi didn't.  Go figure....


He probably was a Christian.  He wouldn't have made a very good Jew.


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## Butterfly (Jan 25, 2020)

hollydolly said:


> I'm just appalled at the fact that people just don't have the right in this country and many others to dispose of their own body that's causing nothing but agony and will never be of use to anyone...  and be permitted to allow a spouse or family member to assist them if they cannot physically carry out the suicide themselves.



I would want authorities to have a bit of control over who makes the decision -- I'm not a fan of just allowing anyone, "loved one" or not, to assist a suicide without some sort of formal documentation by medical people that the dying person made the request personally and without coercion.

To do otherwise could lead to a lot of folks just deciding that granny had lived long enough and taking the matter into their own hands either for insurance money or just to get rid of the trouble of taking care of granny.


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## Keesha (Jan 25, 2020)

Rojo said:


> I have a question. Are/were your parents loving and compassionate? Did they judge you when you didn't obey rules or misbehaved? Christians, many, are taught that God is our father. He does love us, is longsuffering, but yes He judges us when we get out of line. He wants to correct us and have us correct our behavior..... as any good parent would.


No, actually my parents were anything but loving & compassionate. They were sadistically abusive and I never really knew what the rules were since they always changed so it didn’t matter whether I was obedient or not. The end result was the same. 

Possibly due to my abuse, I learned to seek inwards  where I discovered my ‘own’ meaning of God. An intelligent, loving, timeless energy that flows through us and  connects us to a magic beyond belief. A place where miracles do happen.

This God doesn’t judge us. This God supports every decision we make since this power gave us consciousness and free will to make our own choices. This God gently nudges is  when we go off course by tapping into our intuition. This God doesn’t use the concept of correct or incorrect behaviour since that’s a human character we added to an all loving energy. 

My God doesn’t have human qualities. Religion is what humans did to try and understand something that is way beyond our understanding but that’s my own personal belief about God. God is beyond our understanding. 

Note: My post is not meant to criticize religion in the least. It’s just not for me.


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## AnnieA (Jan 25, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> I would want authorities to have a bit of control over who makes the decision -- I'm not a fan of just allowing anyone, "loved one" or not, to assist a suicide without some sort of formal documentation by medical people that the dying person made the request personally and without coercion.
> 
> To do otherwise could lead to a lot of folks just deciding that granny had lived long enough and taking the matter into their own hands either for insurance money or just to get rid of the trouble of taking care of granny.



Good point.  I saw too many not so "loved ones" when working in home health who kept granny stuck in a bed in a back room starving and unhygenic because they wanted to keep her at home for her Social Security check.  Real "love for granny" isn't always the basis for end of life decisions.


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## AnnieA (Jan 25, 2020)

Fyrefox said:


> In the end stages of Parkinson's disease in a nursing home as his cognition flickered in and out, my father in a lucid phase begged my sister to bring him poison.  She could not, of course, but death finally came as he wanted it to while we faced the agonizing decision of whether to install a feeding tube, which would have been against his wishes.  When the quality of life is nill and there is no hope of recovery or improvement, assisted dying I believe should be an option, one which I'd choose for myself...



So sorry that you had to face the tube feeding issue in your father's case.  It's a hard decision but my "go to" professionally when helping people decide this is: "Will re-feeding change the prognosis?"   If the answer is no, then choosing not to tube feed is usually the right clinical decision.    When a person is sick and weak enough that they no longer eat or drink, the body produces endorphins.


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## pleinmont (Jan 26, 2020)

My husband had a brain haemorrhage in 2006 when an aneurysm burst in his brain. He had brain surgery, which probably increased the serious brain damage which he now has, sometimes I think it would have been better if nature had taken its course and he hadn't survived. Academia was his greatest love and it really distresses him that he can no longer do anything of an academic nature.


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## Keesha (Jan 26, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> My husband had a brain haemorrhage in 2006 when an aneurysm burst in his brain. He had brain surgery, which probably increased the serious brain damage which he now has, sometimes I think it would have been better if nature had taken its course and he hadn't survived. Academia was his greatest love and it really distresses him that he can no longer do anything of an academic nature.


I’m so sorry pleinmont. This must be incredibly difficult. Do you care for him yourself? That would be tough.

Losing the mind of someone is possibly worse than losing them totally. I can relate to it in some ways. 

It’s hard finding the silver lining in some of life’s difficulties. 

Take care of yourself pleinmont the best you can. 
I wish you love & contentment


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## pleinmont (Jan 26, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I’m so sorry pleinmont. This must be incredibly difficult. Do you care for him yourself? That would be tough.
> 
> Losing the mind of someone is possibly worse than losing them totally. I can relate to it in some ways.
> 
> ...



I am officially my husband's carer, even though he doesn't reckon he requires one. He is still a lot more intelligent than me even though he has only half a working brain. However, I do know better about his health, of which he has other issues too these days, but will he listen to me, no he doesn't. He goes off on route marches around our neighbourhood, and I haven't a clue where he is going. He takes his mobile phone, but if I try to ring him doesn't always bother to answer it, which really annoys me. I have told him when I have had enough of him I will put him in a care home, and I mean it. 

If I had been the disabled one I would have been in a care home from the start, he was always useless if I was ill in the past.


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## Keesha (Jan 26, 2020)

Awwww.....yeah .... that freedom thing I can relate to. Sorry but I sound more like your husband than anything. I’m constantly wandering  away without telling my better half which drives him nuts. 

Now this conversation sounds truly awkward in a topic about ‘assisted dying.”  lol


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## StarSong (Jan 26, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I learned to seek inwards  where I discovered my ‘own’ meaning of God. An intelligent, loving, timeless energy that flows through us and  connects us to a magic beyond belief. A place where miracles do happen.
> 
> This God doesn’t judge us. This God supports every decision we make since this power gave us consciousness and free will to make our own choices. This God gently nudges is  when we go off course by tapping into our intuition. This God doesn’t use the concept of correct or incorrect behaviour since that’s a human character we added to an all loving energy.
> 
> ...


This is so close to my own beliefs that I found myself nodding as I read it.  Yet another reason why we seem to get along so well, @Keesha.


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## chic (Jan 27, 2020)

I've had a lot of family members die of various forms of cancer and they pleaded to die, but doctors would not offer assistance. So, I do believe in self deliverance. I've always hated to see anything suffer my whole life long. If we can help our sick pets to a peaceful dignified death, why not other humans?

Why not?


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## Lvstotrvl (Jan 27, 2020)

I’m surprised that some of you believe in hell, I always felt hell was right here on earth. When I look around and see homelessness, ppl without decent food n water, babies dying of cancer because of the greed,of the big pharmaceutical companies n the horrific diseases that we can’t cure to me that is hell!


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## Butterfly (Jan 28, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Word was that Hitler was a Christian.  Guess he made the cut but Ghandi didn't.  Go figure....



Hitler might have said he was a Christian, but that doesn't make it so.


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## Lvstotrvl (Jan 28, 2020)

If I recall sinners do not go to Heaven they go to Purgatory, there are 9 levels to Purgatory n if I recall the sinners spend 1 to 2 thousand years there,  the only way they can leave is to have someone,from earth pray for them a certain amount of time. I can’t imagine anyone praying for some one like Hitler etc.


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## pleinmont (Jan 28, 2020)

Lvstotrvl said:


> If I recall sinners do not go to Heaven they go to Purgatory, there are 9 levels to Purgatory n if I recall the sinners spend 1 to 2 thousand years there,  the only way they can leave is to have someone,from earth pray for them a certain amount of time. I can’t imagine anyone praying for some one like Hitler etc.


How anyone can believe that silliness to be factual beats me.


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## Lvstotrvl (Jan 28, 2020)

Lol,......oh come,on, I think we all believe in silly things sometime in our life! BTW....I don’t believe in Purgatory or the devil or hell but since I haven’t died yet,it’s not up to me to judge others beliefs.....lolol


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## pleinmont (Jan 28, 2020)

Lvstotrvl said:


> Lol,......oh come,on, I think we all believe in silly things sometime in our life! BTW....I don’t believe in Purgatory or the devil or hell but since I haven’t died yet,it’s not up to me to judge others beliefs.....lolol



They can believe what they like as long as they don't force it on others with threats if they don't convert, as the extremists do.


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## Judycat (Jan 28, 2020)

I'm OK with it as long as the person assisting knows what the hell they're doing.  Read reports of people suffering even more at the hands of these angels of death because of resistance to the amount of drugs given, not being allowed to obtain the proper drug anymore and alternate drugs being used leading to the patient taking hours to die sometimes in burning agony.  Kind of puts the damper on assisted dying for me. Hoping this is an extreme rarity, but still, not so eager to trust someone else to do me in properly. Fentanyl sounds nice. Not too crazy about the potassium injection though.


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## rgp (Jan 28, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> They can believe what they like as long as they don't force it on others with threats if they don't convert, as the extremists do.




 Watched a netflix doc, about that just the other night. How "Christianity" was forced on native American Indians as well as tribes of of south America......conform or die basically !........can i get an Amen?...LOL!


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## Pepper (Jan 28, 2020)

rgp said:


> Watched a netflix doc, about that just the other night. How "Christianity" was forced on native American Indians as well as tribes of of south America......conform or die basically !........can i get an Amen?...LOL!


Amen.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jan 29, 2020)

We don't live forever. There are no 250,000 year old humans. I think we forget that for every birthday, there will be a deathday.  When there is nothing  anyone can do to prevent what will occur, and one is in pain, what is gained by prolonging the situation. There is a distinction between suicide, and the determination to end pain and suffering in an ending life. With suicide, if prevented. life can continue. With assisted dying, if prevent, death will shortly happen. Is "life" in those last minutes, worth the suffering?


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## Butterfly (Jan 29, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> We don't live forever. There are no 250,000 year old humans. I think we forget that for every birthday, there will be a deathday.  When there is nothing  anyone can do to prevent what will occur, and one is in pain, what is gained by prolonging the situation. There is a distinction between suicide, and the determination to end pain and suffering in an ending life. With suicide, if prevented. life can continue. With assisted dying, if prevent, death will shortly happen. *Is "life" in those last minutes, worth the suffering?*



No.  And I think each person should have the right to decide the answer to that question for themselves, not have the government make the decision for them.


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## C'est Moi (Jan 29, 2020)

Rojo said:


> You know.... I had thought this might be a decent forum..... without Christianity haters. Seems I was wrong. At every turn, someone comments rudely. "Oh well, it was worth a try. Enjoy your place.


There are two topics that always cause dissension on forums; politics and religion.  If you avoid those topics you'll be fine.   (And there are always those who enjoy making hateful remarks; use the "Ignore" feature to make your forum experience better.)


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## charry (Jan 29, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> I am officially my husband's carer, even though he doesn't reckon he requires one. He is still a lot more intelligent than me even though he has only half a working brain. However, I do know better about his health, of which he has other issues too these days, but will he listen to me, no he doesn't. He goes off on route marches around our neighbourhood, and I haven't a clue where he is going. He takes his mobile phone, but if I try to ring him doesn't always bother to answer it, which really annoys me. I have told him when I have had enough of him I will put him in a care home, and I mean it.
> 
> If I had been the disabled one I would have been in a care home from the start, he was always useless if I was ill in the past.





yep , ive def heard this story before  pleinmont, on a few sites.....
if you want to be a carer, take over my role...
no, i dont think so, i wouldnt let you near my husband ...


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## pleinmont (Jan 29, 2020)

charry said:


> yep , ive def heard this story before  pleinmont, on a few sites.....
> if you want to be a carer, take over my role...
> no, i dont think so, i wouldnt let you near my husband ...


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## JaniceM (Feb 6, 2020)

pleinmont said:


> I think people should have the absolute right to terminate their lives, with help if necessary, if they are terminally ill, or living with an incurable condition, which makes their existence a living hell. If it were legal here in the UK, I would be prepared to assist someone to die, having taken a course to ensure that I knew how to go about it.
> 
> What are the thoughts of others on this topic, which I realise is controversial?



I hate it when I don't have a yes/no opinion on a topic, and this is one example.  
I definitely agree that it should be allowed 'if they are terminally ill, or living with an incurable condition which makes their existence a living hell,' but my concern is if it were legalized it wouldn't be long before cases that did not have that criteria would claim the same 'rights.'  

In other words, I don't believe people should be able to take that step as a matter of 'choice' only, or in other, less serious situations.


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## Butterfly (Feb 6, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> I hate it when I don't have a yes/no opinion on a topic, and this is one example.
> I definitely agree that it should be allowed 'if they are terminally ill, or living with an incurable condition which makes their existence a living hell,' but my concern is if it were legalized it wouldn't be long before cases that did not have that criteria would claim the same 'rights.'
> 
> In other words, I don't believe people should be able to take that step as a matter of 'choice' only, or in other, less serious situations.




Just curious -- why do you think people should not be able to "take that step as a matter of choice only", or in other situations?


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## JaniceM (Feb 6, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> Just curious -- why do you think people should not be able to "take that step as a matter of choice only", or in other situations?



Two reasons.  First, however a person's life may be "today" is not necessarily an indication of how it will be in the future.  Second, in most cases, a person's actions affect other people.


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## Sunny (Feb 6, 2020)

Janice, but also, a person's_ non_-actions can affect other people.


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## JaniceM (Feb 6, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Janice, but also, a person's_ non_-actions can affect other people.



Yes, and that's another reason I'd hesitate in legalizing it-  it could result in individuals encouraging ill/disabled loved ones to take this step, or even 'off' their loved ones themselves.


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## RobinWren (Aug 13, 2022)

Here we are two years later, covid still a threat, health care stretched to the limit. 1,000,000 in BC without a doctor. What are your thoughts now on this subject. Many agree with it, those who did not might now be considering it when we look at our hospital situation.


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## rgp (Aug 14, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> I'm a firm believer in assisted suicide and the right to die.



 I agree here !


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## Paco Dennis (Aug 14, 2022)

This might be on here already, but it IS very important to me. Assisted Suicide should be legalized and regulated. this is Wiki's intro and subjects you can check out.

*"Assisted suicide*_ is suicide undertaken with the aid of another person.[1] The term usually refers to *physician-assisted suicide* (*PAS*), which is suicide that is assisted by a physician or other healthcare provider. Once it is determined that the person's situation qualifies under the physician-assisted suicide laws for that place, the physician's assistance is usually limited to writing a prescription for a lethal dose of drugs.

In many jurisdictions, helping a person die by suicide is a crime.[2] People who support legalizing physician-assisted suicide want the people who assist in a voluntary death to be exempt from criminal prosecution for manslaughter or similar crimes. Physician-assisted suicide is legal in some countries, under certain circumstances, including Austria, Belgium, Canada, Germany, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Spain, Switzerland, parts of the United States and parts of Australia. The constitutional courts of Colombia, Germany and Italy legalized assisted suicide, but their governments have not legislated or regulated the practice yet.

In most of those states or countries, to qualify for legal assistance, individuals who seek a physician-assisted suicide must meet certain criteria, including: having a terminal illness, proving they are of sound mind, voluntarily and repeatedly expressing their wish to die, and taking the specified, lethal dose by their own hand. The laws vary in scope from place to place. In the United States, PAS is limited to those who have a prognosis of six months or less to live. In Canada, anyone with a disability qualifies to die by physician assisted suicide. In other countries such as Germany, Canada, Switzerland, Spain, Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands, a terminal diagnosis is not a requirement and voluntary euthanasia is additionally allowed.[3]_


_Contents_​
_1 Terminology_
_1.1 Assisted dying versus assisted suicide_

_2 Physician-assisted suicide_
_2.1 Support_
_2.1.1 Arguments for_
_2.1.1.1 Oregon statistics_
_2.1.1.2 Washington State statistics_
_2.1.1.3 U.S. polls_

_2.1.2 Safeguards_
_2.1.3 Religious stances in favor_
_2.1.3.1 Unitarian Universalism_


_2.2 Opposition_
_2.2.1 Medical ethics_
_2.2.1.1 Hippocratic Oath_
_2.2.1.2 Declaration of Geneva_
_2.2.1.3 International Code of Medical Ethics_
_2.2.1.4 Statement of Marbella_

_2.2.2 Concerns of expansion to people with chronic disorders_
_2.2.3 Religious stances in opposition_
_2.2.3.1 Catholicism_
_2.2.3.2 Judaism_
_2.2.3.3 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints_


_2.3 Neutrality_
_2.3.1 American Medical Association Code of Ethics_

_2.4 Attitudes of healthcare professionals_

_3 Legality_
_3.1 Australia_
_3.2 Austria_
_3.3 Belgium_
_3.4 Canada_
_3.5 China_
_3.6 Colombia_
_3.6.1 Publicized cases_

_3.7 Denmark_
_3.8 France_
_3.9 Germany_
_3.9.1 Travel to Switzerland_
_3.9.2 Physician-assisted suicide_

_3.10 Iceland_
_3.11 Ireland_
_3.12 Italy_
_3.13 Jersey_
_3.14 Luxembourg_
_3.15 Netherlands_
_3.16 New Zealand_
_3.17 Norway_
_3.18 South Africa_
_3.19 Switzerland_
_3.19.1 Publicized cases_

_3.20 Uruguay_
_3.21 United Kingdom_
_3.21.1 England and Wales_
_3.21.2 Scotland_
_3.21.3 Northern Ireland_
_3.21.4 Assisted Dying Coalition_

_3.22 United States_
_3.22.1 Brittany Maynard_


_4 See also_
_5 Explanatory notes_
_6 References_
_7 Further reading"_
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_


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