# What it is to REALLY VOTE !!!



## Elyzabeth (Oct 14, 2014)

How about having real elections where you can vote for the person you want to elect ?

Putting an X in the box for the political patty you want to" chose the candidates for you" is elementary third world voting !


Just sent in  my early ballot to America, I was given a book with backgrounds on the people I was voting on, so I could make an informed choice, and also  I voted ballot propositions,(with  pro/com arguments in a booklet) I voted on:

!) if new drugs should be given to terminal patients who want them before they are fully tested

2) Raising the salary of the local legislative state officers

3) amendment to the constitution to reject unconstitutional  Federal actions


Supreme court Judges ( for our state)

and many others, It takes me at least 45 minutes to study the issues and background of the people I'M, voting for.


THAT IS WHAT VOTING IS !!!


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## QuickSilver (Oct 14, 2014)

I am very much aware of politics.. (can't you tell?)   It's not just at election time either... it's everyday... all year round..   I will be early voting in our Illinois midterms.  I have a booklet that was sent to me detailing all the special initiatives on the ballot..  and will know what I intend to do once I get into the voting booth.   I must admit to having sketchy knowledge about all the Judges... who can know about all the judges?  There's page after page of them...  In this case I vote my party. Because I am in agreement and would want judicial decisions based on my ideology.


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## Vivjen (Oct 14, 2014)

We do that too; look at the by-election in Clacton last week.
People voted for the man, even though he had changed paties, because he was considered a good local MP.

A good MP tries to help all his constituents, whatever party they vote for.


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## Ameriscot (Oct 14, 2014)

I vote in US elections and UK.  But I only get ballots for the US for the general election for prez.  

As a dual citizen I also got to vote in the Scottish independence referendum.  And as a member of the Labour Party I get to vote for the leader.


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## Bee (Oct 14, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> We do that too; look at the by-election in Clacton last week.
> People voted for the man, even though he had changed paties, because he was considered a good local MP.
> 
> A good MP tries to help all his constituents, whatever party they vote for.




There were also people in Clacton that said................they voted for UKIP because the Tory MP had done _*nothing *_for the area:shrug:................make of that what you can.:lol:


For those that don't know the UKIP candidate had defected from the Tory party.


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## Elyzabeth (Oct 15, 2014)

For those who have not voted in a UK election:
it consists of one page with about 5  boxes,
 and you put an X in the box for THE PARTY you want to elect.. 
the PARTY then decides who it will choose.

Lucky people in the "by election"
( elections held when a person leaves office by choice or circumstances)
.... you actually got to vote for a person !!!

I vote in both election as a proud citizen of both countries, 
however the voting in the UK does not allow people any real choice and it extremely primitive...
any new, or third world  country has the same "mark the box system"
 however they are usually voting for a person at least !!!


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## Warrigal (Oct 15, 2014)

Wow, Elyzabeth, I wouldn't like that. Here the party preselects the candidate (and there are some problems with this process) and we know who we are voting for, as well as whether they are party endorsed or independent candidates. We also have a preference system so we number the boxes in order of our most to least preferred candidates. If no candidate wins an outright majority (50% +1) then preferences come into play. The aim is to elect the most preferred candidate without having to have a runoff second election.


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## Bee (Oct 15, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> For those who have not voted in a UK election:
> it consists of one page with about 5  boxes,
> and you put an X in the box for THE PARTY you want to elect..
> the PARTY then decides who it will choose.
> ...



Actually that is not quite true, I can only speak for Clacton.........some people voted for the man and some voted for the party.

It may seem primitive to you but it suits me also we don't have to vote for any particular party, we can vote for the candidate that we think can serve both the area they are going to represent or serve the country best......................I always vote for the candidate whose policies  I like best and am not affiliated to any particular party, and oh by the way, at the last general election, in my area we had 12 candidates to choose from.

So to say there are 5 boxes and you put a cross in the box for the party you want to elect is _*not quite *_true.

I look forward to your criticisms about the UK way of voting _*again *_next May at the next general election.


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## Warrigal (Oct 15, 2014)

Thanks for the clarification Bee. I was wondering about all the movies I've seen where the poll results are declared publically, and the candidates are standing there waiting for the winner to be announced.


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## Pam (Oct 15, 2014)

Yes, thanks, Bee. Can't remember how many we had to choose from last time in this area but it's not a standard number.  The candidate _*is*_ pre-selected by his or her party and we get information leaflets prior to elections telling us about each candidate, also in the local papers and you can view their websites online.


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## Vivjen (Oct 15, 2014)

It is only recently that that name of the party that the candidate is representing has been on the ballot form...


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## Bee (Oct 15, 2014)

How recent are you talking about Viv??

*May 1, 1997* - Ukip candidates stand in the *general* election but win no   seats. Mr Sked resigns after the election, saying he is concerned about "racist"   elements. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11151996/Ukips-journey-to-breakthrough.html


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## Bee (Oct 15, 2014)

Then there is this from my area......

*Jeffrey William Titford* (born 24 October 1933, West Mersea, Essex) is a British politician who served as leader of the UK Independence Party from 2000 until 2002. He served again as interim leader in September to November 2010 following the resignation of Lord Pearson of Rannoch. He was also a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for the East of England from 1999 to 2009.
He had been at various times a member of the Conservative Party (for whom he was a local councillor), the New Britain Party and the Referendum Party. He was the most successful Referendum Party candidate in the 1997 general election, winning nearly 10 percent of the vote in Harwich. However, later that year he joined the UKIP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Titford


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## oakapple (Oct 15, 2014)

Pam said:


> Yes, thanks, Bee. Can't remember how many we had to choose from last time in this area but it's not a standard number. The candidate _*is*_ pre-selected by his or her party and we get information leaflets prior to elections telling us about each candidate, also in the local papers and you can view their websites online.


 This is indeed true. The point is though, both here in the UK and the US, although it may help to know something about the man or woman you are voting for [in your area] we can never be sure totally about them. it doesn't matter though, as it's more important to get the 'party' in that you want, rather than the candidate.


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## oakapple (Oct 15, 2014)

The above is for a general election. In a by election [local] it is more the man who matters.


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## Vivjen (Oct 15, 2014)

What I meant Bee, was that names were there, but now they put Labour etc on the ballot paper; previously this was not listed..although everybody knew!


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## Vivjen (Oct 15, 2014)

Elyzabeth; I am obviously living in a different third world country to you.
i have never voted for a party, and then had a candidate selected, in 40 years.
i have always voted for a person; knowing which party he/she represents; and many of the smaller parties do not have candidates in each seat; such as the Greens.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 15, 2014)

I vote for my party... Not because I am following blindly... because when looking at the issues, I don't find anyone in the opposing party worthy of my vote.. I have studied the Republican platform.. I have studied the webpages of the candidates.. and STILL would not vote for any running Repubican. There is nothing wrong with being a party voter, if you know the issues and agree with your party. Why should I split my vote when I find I don't agree with what the opposing party says? Now that's not to say I agree 100% with the Democratic platform.. but it much more closely mirrors my ideology than anything or anyone on the Right. I'm not splitting my vote just so I can stand up and "I vote for the man not the party". Not when I don't agree with anything they say.  So I guess I do vote for the "Man"... it just so happens the Men/women I vote for are Democrats.


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## Jackie22 (Oct 15, 2014)

Same here, QS, I always vote for the Democrat Party, and would never vote Republican because I keep up with the issues and on the whole I think our Country is better off with Democrats in office.


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## Vivjen (Oct 15, 2014)

Question; do you in US have many fringe parties?

We have Monster Raving Loonie Party as an example; basically one can stand for election under any legal banner by getting 12 ( I think) people to support one's nomination, and paying a deposit.
less than a certain % of the vote; the candidate loses their deposit.


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## Bee (Oct 15, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> What I meant Bee, was that names were there, but now they put Labour etc on the ballot paper; previously this was not listed..although everybody knew!




Apologies for any misunderstanding Viv, I mis read you.


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## Bee (Oct 15, 2014)

Vivjen said:


> Elyzabeth; I am obviously living in a different third world country to you.
> i have never voted for a party, and then had a candidate selected, in 40 years.
> i have always voted for a person; knowing which party he/she represents; and many of the smaller parties do not have candidates in each seat; such as the Greens.




Precisely Viv.


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## Ameriscot (Oct 15, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I vote for my party... Not because I am following blindly... because when looking at the issues, I don't find anyone in the opposing party worthy of my vote.. I have studied the Republican platform.. I have studied the webpages of the candidates.. and STILL would not vote for any running Repubican. There is nothing wrong with being a party voter, if you know the issues and agree with your party. Why should I split my vote when I find I don't agree with what the opposing party says? Now that's not to say I agree 100% with the Democratic platform.. but it much more closely mirrors my ideology than anything or anyone on the Right. I'm not splitting my vote just so I can stand up and "I vote for the man not the party". Not when I don't agree with anything they say.  So I guess I do vote for the "Man"... it just so happens the Men/women I vote for are Democrats.



Same here.  There has never been a Republican I would vote for because I disagree with their policies.  I have always voted Democrat.  And I now vote in the UK and always vote for Labour.  I became a member of the Labour Party in 2010 after the election which gave us this disastrous coalition.


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## Elyzabeth (Feb 2, 2015)

But, don't you want to choose the person that you think will do the best job???

True a lot of research needs to be done in an American type of election..

.. but just to vote for a party ???

Here, the "party line vote" estates that you are voting for the ideas and not the personality.. 

However are not some individuals more capable then others???


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## Denise1952 (Feb 2, 2015)

Elyzabeth said:


> How about having real elections where you can vote for the person you want to elect ?
> 
> Putting an X in the box for the political patty you want to" chose the candidates for you" is elementary third world voting !
> 
> ...



I am trying to learn more about the candidates through Senior forum, and how I'm pointed to different sites, but also, I love the background books, the pros and cons of the issues.  I really couldn't vote without at least those, but I am trying hard to follow, which I know you do as well from your post Elyzabeth, everyday now with the issues, whos running, what they are standing for.  I can't tell if folks are lying to get elected, so I just have to trust my gut instinct for the most part.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 2, 2015)

No, I do NOT want to vote "party" votes ever again, I admit I have done that before but that's just being lazy for one thing, plus the fact I really want to know something about the man/woman, not just their party.  I do find it hard to put the principle over "some" personalities, but I am trying hard to go for the one that will do the best things for America.

Unless people like me "first" learn about the candidates, and the issues we could be voting against our own beliefs in what is good for America.  If folks don't vote at all or care, well, I guess our elections are half-assed at best


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## Bee (Feb 2, 2015)

Elyzabeth, please read post 8 and the following posts by U.K. members.


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## Denise1952 (Feb 2, 2015)

Sorry, I didn't see this was about what "UK" is doing wrong, geesh, enough to keep up with what America is doing wrong, LOL


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## Vivjen (Feb 2, 2015)

We are not that different from zuS; it just costs us far fewer millions of dollars,


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## Denise1952 (Feb 2, 2015)

I don't doubt that, America seems to be shopaholic


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## hollydolly (Feb 2, 2015)

I totally agree with all the UK members on how we vote here.

Elyzabeth I know you have lived in the UK for many years, yet you seem very confused as to our voting system, how can that be?


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## Bee (Feb 3, 2015)

Good post Holly.


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## Voicemacabre (Feb 3, 2015)

Here in the UK the forthcoming election is probably one of the most important we have had and voting is essential. It is so vital I have to leave myself notes duplications and all to remember as 'callmedave' has forgotten us old un's


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## 911 (Feb 4, 2015)

Independent here. My vote goes to the person that I fell will represent the people, not just me, the best. I am not always in the majority, so I listen to what others say and if they convince me that their guy or lady is better than my choice, I will vote for that person.


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## QuickSilver (Feb 4, 2015)

In my opinion, it's REALLY hard to say you are an Independent in this day and age.  The two parties are now so polarized and the ideology is so far apart that it would be impossible IMO to vote for someone of one party... and then someone else of another party.  It would be like doing a complete 180... especially now that there seems to be a litmus or purity test to be a member of the Republican party.   Politics now seems to embrace every aspect of our lives.. including our reproductive and spiritual lives..  It's no longer just fiscal or financial..   You almost have to pick one side or the other if you really examine your core beliefs.    There are no moderates any longer.


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