# Spanking a child



## QuickSilver (May 7, 2015)

How many were, and how many did?    Aaaaaaand go!

(saw were the other thread was headed and decided to start a separate one.. )


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## Lon (May 7, 2015)

I was and I did. Big difference between Spanking & Beating. Some folks make no distinction.


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## Ameriscot (May 7, 2015)

I was spanked but not often.  I spanked my kids sometimes but preferred other methods.


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## AZ Jim (May 7, 2015)

No one in this world loved their Dad like I did and he spanked sparingly but when I needed it, he did it.  He taught me to pay attention to what I was told.  No belts just spankings.


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## Laurie (May 7, 2015)

I believe in a "natural" upbringing.

Watch a lion or a bear cuff their kids when they misbehave, without injuring them.

Children are like puppies, they have to be trained, but they are not like horses, they don't need to be broken.


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## QuickSilver (May 7, 2015)

I agree..   I was spanked, and sometimes more than I thought was necessary, but I was not beaten, nor was anything used but a well placed hand.  I do remember the times I really needed it..  Like when I saw my parents pulling away from a curb from the corner store and I grabed the car bumper and enjoyed a tow home on a snowy street..  A neighbor ratted on me... and I remember that spanking.  Never did it again either..   

I spanked my kids less than I was spanked, but I did..  Sometimes reasoning doesn't work, and a smack on the bottom gets their attention like nothing else.   When they became bigger and faster than I was, I had to resort to other means.  They still talk about the time my oldest got konked on the head with a loaf of frozen garlic bread.   Makes for funny dinner conversations now.


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## Cookie (May 7, 2015)

No ritual punishment in the form of spanking in either my own childhood nor in that of my son.  I believe nowadays it is looked upon as child abuse because the kid is small and the parent is big, so it is considered a kind of abuse of power. Some parents will justify it in any way they can, thinking its good for the kid. I did smack my son on the bottom once or twice when he was driving me crazy, but always apologized and felt very guilty afterwards. 

My aunt was a big spanker and lost her temper very easily, and her children all ended up all moving far away from her, even to different countries when they grew up so she pretty much spent her last years alone and died alone. Very sad.


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## Glinda (May 7, 2015)

My father was violently abusive toward myself and my brothers.  Spanking was the least of it.  These days he would probably be in jail.  Three out of four of his children, including myself, chose not to have children.


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## QuickSilver (May 7, 2015)

Doubt it was just the spanking..


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## SeaBreeze (May 7, 2015)

My mother spanked me when I needed it, which wasn't too often as I was pretty well behaved and respectful toward her.  Usually if she gave me the 'evil eye', I'd stop whatever I was doing and knew she meant business. The times I got a spanking, I asked for it, and once in a blue moon, she'd use something like a fly swatter.

  She was always in control and didn't freak out like some mothers who beat their kids and lose it in the process.  I never had marks from the spankings, and I loved my mother dearly, she was a good woman who cared very much for her kids.  My father spanked my brother sometimes, but never the girls.

I don't have kids, but I would spank now and then if I thought it was needed.  I think me and my siblings turned out fine, and never lost love or feared either of our parents.  The parents who go nuts and beat their kids excessively have mental problems and should seek counseling IMO.  Then it is no longer what the child did, but an outlet for a troubled parent that is the problem, and the child is the victim.  Glinda, very sorry to hear about your experience...hugs.


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## Warrigal (May 7, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I was spanked but not often.  I spanked my kids sometimes but preferred other methods.



My experience too. If I was hit on the legs by my mum, it was for something serious. If I hit my children it was because a swift, sharp lesson was needed. I received just one cut of the cane at school on my left hand and had no desire for another.


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## Cookie (May 7, 2015)

http://positiveparenting.com/9-things-to-do-instead-of-spanking/

I think there are alternatives to spanking. It seems to be a method of controlling children's behavior that is now outdated in the western world and many psychologists agree that is not effective.  Parents shouldn't have to resort to using physical force or hitting their children in order to get them to behave.  Spanking does apparently hurt.  There are more positive and effective alternatives.


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## hollydolly (May 7, 2015)

Glinda said:


> My father was violently abusive toward myself and my brothers.  Spanking was the least of it.  These days he would probably be in jail.  Three out of four of his children, including myself, chose not to have children.



Ditto Glinda..ditto... I got the worst of it, my brother got a lot of it..but my 2 younger sisters never did ...I could never understand that , and  they grew to be very manipulative and would lie to my father for the fun of watching me getting a beating.

No little  smackings...but beaten to a pulp with fist, feet, belt buckles,  broom handles.. and more. Humiliation beatings as well ..( I won't go into details) and other stuff .far worse. He broke my coccyx once by  kicking me until I could no longer stand and hauling me up to continue kicking and I'd fall down again and he'd hail me up again to continue  kicking... 

...I could tell you a thousand stories 

My mother although ruled by him  and in fear of him , was occasionally quite capable of lashing out with her fists or a broom handle. I remember she beat the living daylights out of me simply because I came home from sports day at school and told her I'd manage to jump 13 feet in the long jump..it wasn't possible she said, I was a liar she said....and hit me over and over again with the broom handle, and while I was on the floor knelt on my chest punching me repeatedly  in the face  ( she ultimately took her own life after suffering from depression and alcoholism) 

I could write a book but I think I'd have a breakdown recalling all the bad  memories.. 

Today my father would have gone to jail for a very long time...


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## QuickSilver (May 7, 2015)

Cookie said:


> http://positiveparenting.com/9-things-to-do-instead-of-spanking/
> 
> I think there are alternatives to spanking. It seems to be a method of controlling children's behavior that is now outdated in the western world and many psychologists agree that is not effective.  Parents shouldn't have to resort to using physical force or hitting their children in order to get them to behave.  Spanking does apparently hurt.  There are more positive and effective alternatives.



Just how do you get the attention of a child in the middle of a temper tantrum.. or one acting out and refusing to listen?   Reasoning with a child in this state is impossible and  sometimes a swift sharp butt slap is the only method... THEN you can begin to use the "other methods" you speak of.


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## QuickSilver (May 7, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> Ditto Glinda..ditto... I got the worst of it, my brother got a lot of it..but my 2 younger sisters never did ...I could never understand that , and  they grew to be very manipulative and would lie to my father for the fun of watching me getting a beating.
> 
> No little  smackings...but beaten to a pulp with fist, feet, belt buckles,  broom handles.. and more. Humiliation beatings as well ..( I won't go into details) and other stuff .far worse. He broke my coccyx once by  kicking me until I could no longer stand and hauling me up to continue kicking and I'd fall down again and he'd hail me up again to continue  kicking...
> 
> ...



What you are speaking of is not at all what most of us consider "spanking"...   There is a difference... it's apples and oranges.


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## Cookie (May 7, 2015)

I'm not a child psychologist, but there are professionals who can give us some advice, the article below addresses this issue. Young parents really need to educate themselves on these better ways to deal.  I've see mothers smacking kids who are having a tantrum, and all I see is hitting and screaming.  This website is pretty thorough if you take the time to read through it.

http://www.webmd.com/children/tc/temper-tantrums-topic-overview


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## QuickSilver (May 7, 2015)

I will....  just before I have my next baby..  nthego:


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## Shalimar (May 7, 2015)

I was spanked, I have never forgiven my mother for it. I have never hit my son. He will not spank his children either. The idea of teaching through fear sickens me. The belief among psychologists etc. if your children are fine after being spanked as young people, it is in spite of that action, not because of it.


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## Cookie (May 7, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I will....  just before I have my next baby..  nthego:



Ha ha..... I know.... too bad we didn't know then what we know now. With my next kid I'm gonna be the perfect mother.


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## Shalimar (May 7, 2015)

Cookie, we can all be perfect mothers together. Lol


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## hollydolly (May 7, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> What you are speaking of is not at all what most of us consider "spanking"...   *There is a difference... it's apples and oranges*.




with all due respect QS...are you seriously trying to tell me and Glinda and other victims of childhood abuse ..that there is a difference between a little occasional smack  and  out and out physical, mental and ****** Abuse..Don't you think WE know that, don't you think WE are the experts on that?


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## Cookie (May 7, 2015)

OK, here comes the perfect mothers brigade, complete with marching band! LOL


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## Shalimar (May 7, 2015)

Holly, I suffered extreme physical abuse as well, just not at the hands of family, so did not mention it in my post. The other forms of abuse did not seem pertinent to this thread. I stand with you re we are the experts on this matter, for anyone who did not live in our particular hell, all it can ever be is an intellectual exercise, true understanding is just not possible


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## SeaBreeze (May 7, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> Ditto Glinda..ditto... I got the worst of it, my brother got a lot of it..but my 2 younger sisters never did ...I could never understand that , and  they grew to be very manipulative and would lie to my father for the fun of watching me getting a beating.
> 
> No little  smackings...but beaten to a pulp with fist, feet, belt buckles,  broom handles.. and more. Humiliation beatings as well ..( I won't go into details) and other stuff .far worse. He broke my coccyx once by  kicking me until I could no longer stand and hauling me up to continue kicking and I'd fall down again and he'd hail me up again to continue  kicking...
> 
> ...



Very sad to hear all you went through HollyDolly.  A spanking many times turns into a beating and worse, so sorry you experienced something like that, my heart goes out to you.  I can't even imagine such a horrible childhood experience.


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## hollydolly (May 7, 2015)

Precisely Shali !!..and I'm sorry you suffered abuse too

It's not the fault of those who've only ever had an occasional smack as child to be unable to understand our position, how could they..only ever witnessing or being on the receiving end of any kind of situation whether abuse or anything in life... can promote an understanding ..

However some may be surprised that I did smack my child, only very occasionally when she was really being naughty  , only on the back of her hand, and just as you did cookie I felt huge guilt afterwards and always apologised.

ETA...thank you SB !!


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## Warrigal (May 7, 2015)

There are very good programs for parents these day, such as the Triple P (Positive Parenting Program) but simply not chastising a child is not enough. I've seen too many mothers who are unable to assert themselves when their children are acting out because all they seem to do is plead with them to stop misbehaving, mostly to no avail. At the other end of the scale I heard mothers scream at their kids and threaten them with death if they don't desist. Equally useless, because the child still pays no attention. Positive parenting requires a lot of patience and consistency for it to be effective. You can see it at the day care centres where house devils appear as little angels for the carers.

I found that when things were getting out of hand at home, time out in the bedroom was useful but today the bedroom is a child's playground of delights. Still, if the behaviour improves afterwards ???

I liked the earlier post about bears and lions chastising their cubs. I watched a doco about a mother bear training her cubs to climb a tree when she sounded an alarm. If the cubs didn't respond instantly, she cuffed them to reinforce the urgency of the signal. I adopted the same approach to certain safely lessons when the children were little. Playing with fire, or electrical sockets, or not stopping at the kerb when we were out walking, were matters too serious to ignore. First came the smack, then the admonition  that they had been told never to do that and finally the explanation of why it was dangerous. I really only had to do it once.

I was not smack happy and was always sorry for squalling little kids who were obviously overtired. However, sometimes an overtired child won't sleep and just needs a bit of a cry to allow them to let go and get some rest. In that case a smack can be a circuit breaker.


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## Shalimar (May 7, 2015)

With respect DW, we are sentient beings, lions are not. It is not necessary to rule by fear. We simply have no right to hit helpless little beings. My son has never been spanked, he is a moral human being. His children will not be spanked either. There are other ways to enforce discipline that work well. I employed them. I reject any premise that infers that spanking is thebest/only recourse re dealing with serious instances ie electrical dangers.


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## Cookie (May 7, 2015)

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/video/brazelton-temper-tantrum

Here it is!  A doctor speaks and he's really good and makes sense on how to handle temper tantrums in a child.  
I can't get the video to copy, but you should be able to get it on the website above.  Please please take a look, it's really good.


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## Warrigal (May 7, 2015)

Shalimar, I'm not advocating ruling children by fear, at least, not all the time. I was a high school teacher and obviously physical punishment was totally inappropriate. However, I did have to assert my authority over my students by means of various sanctions and IMO that is what an occasional smack does when children are little. My disapproval of certain behaviours did need to be established when the children were young. I'm not sure what people mean by spanking. I'm talking about a single slap on the hand or the calf. 

My daughter raised her children without hitting them (as far as I know) and they have turned out fine. My posts have been about what I did and some of the reasons why I did these things. I'm not advocating that everyone should follow suit. Times have changed.

As for the animals, they act from instinct, not reason. The animals that are more attentive to their young, who actively teach them what they need for survival, are the more successful in rearing their young. I used to show a documentary about a mob of kangaroos to my high school science classes. Two does were filmed with their joeys over a twelve month period. One was a mature female who was probably rearing her last joey and the other was bringing up her first. The older mother was attentive, insisted that the joey jump back into the pouch when she called and would not let him out whenever he wanted her to. The young doe was more laissez faire and her joey did pretty much what she wanted to. She ranged far and wide and her mother was unconcerned, although she fed and cleaned her when she was nearby.

One night that particular joey was savaged by a dingo and died the next day. My teenage girls were very upset at this event but all of the science teachers who were mothers took the opportunity to reinforce the message to the girls that if their mothers seemed strict with them it was probably a good thing and certainly a sign of love.

I think we can look at the animal kingdom and reflect on our own methods of raising our young. My mum often used to say that some alley cats made better mothers than some people she knew. She was referring to their willingness to defend their kittens from harm, including from the tom cats. She could never understand how any mother could allow someone to do harm to a child. Even so, she was prepared to chastise my sister and I by occasionally slapping our legs but it had to be for something serious. She never let our father hit us though, and I wouldn't let my husband hit ours either. Physical punishment in our house was infrequent, relatively mild and quite effective when it needed to be. I suffered no lasting harm, neither did my sister. IMO verbal abuse can be much more damaging to a little child.


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## Warrigal (May 7, 2015)

Cookie, love the advice about temper tantrums. I always walked away from my daughter when she was throwing a tantrum except for just one time. She chose the china department in a department store to throw herself on the floor, kicking and screaming, and I didn't dare let her continue unchecked. Like the good doctor in the video I picked her up and removed her from the breakables. Then I spanked her bottom - the full over the knee job and I didn't care who saw me. That was her last tantrum ever, unless you count adolescent door slamming.

I had another trick I use when she was being obnoxious as a small child. I would walk around the house looking for my daughter, going from room to room calling her name etc. She would always be intrigued as to why I couldn't see her and she would say "Here I am" etc but I would still refuse to recognise her. I'd say "You aren't my Susan. My Susan's a good girl." After a bit of this nonsense, her mood would be better and I would then say "Oh, you really are a good girl. Now I can see you" and all would be well without any chastisement at all. Distraction can work for some things.


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## DoItMyself (May 7, 2015)

My dad was a firm believer in the belt.  After a couple time getting the belt on the backside, all dad had to do was move his hand toward his belt, and I'd immediately stop misbehaving.

We also had a teacher in third grade who had a white yardstick nicknamed "white lightning".  I never heard of him actually using it, but just the threat of it was enough to keep us in line and focused.

I also had a teacher in 4th grade who smacked my hand with a ruler.  I was blatantly misbehaving and deserved what I got.  I never, ever misbehaved in his class again.

I respect and thank every one of them who disciplined me during my formative years.  Those lessons stayed with me my entire life.


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## Ralphy1 (May 8, 2015)

Parent education programs have been available for a long time that provide alternatives to spankings or doing nothing.  Unfortunately, most parents do not take advantage of them, especially men.  Muddling thru is still the order of the day...


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## Jackie22 (May 8, 2015)

Cookie said:


> I'm not a child psychologist, but there are professionals who can give us some advice, the article below addresses this issue. Young parents really need to educate themselves on these better ways to deal.  I've see mothers smacking kids who are having a tantrum, and all I see is hitting and screaming.  This website is pretty thorough if you take the time to read through it.
> 
> http://www.webmd.com/children/tc/temper-tantrums-topic-overview



I agree, instilling fear does not work in the long run, whether its an adult or child, there are better methods of discipline.


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## Misty (May 8, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> Ditto Glinda..ditto... I got the worst of it, my brother got a lot of it..but my 2 younger sisters never did ...I could never understand that , and  they grew to be very manipulative and would lie to my father for the fun of watching me getting a beating.
> 
> No little  smackings...but beaten to a pulp with fist, feet, belt buckles,  broom handles.. and more. Humiliation beatings as well ..( I won't go into details) and other stuff .far worse. He broke my coccyx once by  kicking me until I could no longer stand and hauling me up to continue kicking and I'd fall down again and he'd hail me up again to continue  kicking...
> 
> ...



Holly so sorry about all the abuse you went through while growing up...it brought tears. You are a Beautiful Lady both inside and out, and have such a happy personality, one would never guess all the torment you lived through. Much love to you, and also to Shalimar and Glinda for their suffering through abuse while growing up. ((((((Hugs))))))


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## Shalimar (May 8, 2015)

Thank you Misty, much love and hugs to you as well. We are the lucky ones, we survived. We bear witness for the children who did not.:love_heart:


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## Misty (May 8, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Thank you Misty, much love and hugs to you as well. We are the lucky ones, we survived. We bear witness for the children who did not.:love_heart:



Thank you for the love and hugs, Shalimar....they are deeply appreciated, Dear Friend. :love_heart:


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## Shalimar (May 8, 2015)

I hear you, Holly. The monsters in my life would be jailed as well. Unfortunately , ritual abuse still continues, and child sex slaves are all too common. Wealthy patrons of exclusive pedophile establishments can have anything they can afford, including snuff films. Welcome to the world of the hundred year old child.:love_heart: The physical and ****** abuse I incurred were nothing in comparison with the emotional horror.


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## QuickSilver (May 8, 2015)

With ALL due respect.....Isn't it OBVIOUS that the rest of us that have spanked our kids, REALIZE that what happened to Holly, Glinda, and Shimar was horrific and that we feel very sad this happened to them?   Seriously...  A wap on the behind with a flat palm cannot be equated to this.... and I am offended by the implication that to do so means I or the others abused our kids....   Again... Sorry all this happened to you guys, but DO NOT put me or the others in the same pot as your psychopathic parents..  Please...    Thank you..   NOW... I'm out of this thread.,


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## hollydolly (May 8, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Isn't it OBVIOUS that the rest of us that have spanked our kids, REALIZE that what happened to Holly, Glinda, and Shimar was horrific and that we feel very sad this happened to them?   Seriously...  A wap on the behind with a flat palm cannot be equated to this.... *and I am offended by the implication that to do so means I or the others abused our kids....   Again... Sorry all this happened to you guys, but DO NOT put me or the others in the same pot as your psychopathic parents.*.



I think you've really over-reacted here QS..I certainly didn't imply in any of my posts that YOU or anyone else..abused your children...however calling our parents psychopaths is offensive...yes  one of my parents was a a viscious bully..the other just as much his victim as we kids were  who took her own life at the young age of 39years old to escape him and the abuse....

I have never implied you were abusive to your children, or called you or your family members an offensive name ...I would appreciate it if you afforded me Glinda and Shalimar  the same courtesy.


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## hollydolly (May 8, 2015)

Misty said:


> Holly so sorry about all the abuse you went through while growing up...it brought tears. You are a Beautiful Lady both inside and out, and have such a happy personality, one would never guess all the torment you lived through. Much love to you, and also to Shalimar and Glinda for their suffering through abuse while growing up. ((((((Hugs))))))



Misty bless you, thank you for your kind words.:love_heart:..I didn't do it to get sympathy , but to highlight that some children as Seabreeze so succinctly said and I agree too..how easily a smacking can turn into a beating..in some cases.


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## hollydolly (May 8, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Thank you Misty, much love and hugs to you as well. *We are the lucky ones, we survived. We bear witness for the children who did not*.:love_heart:



Never a truer word spoken Shali.. :love_heart:


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## QuickSilver (May 8, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> I think you've really over-reacted here QS..I certainly didn't imply in any of my posts that YOU or anyone else..abused your children...however calling our parents psychopaths is offensive...yes  one of my parents was a a viscious bully..the other just as much his victim as we kids were  who took her own life at the young age of 39years old to escape him and the abuse....
> 
> I have never implied you were abusive to your children, or called you or your family members an offensive name ...I would appreciate it if you afforded me Glinda and Shalimar  the same courtesy.



Really?  What do YOU call grown adults who injure, sexually abuse or otherwise terrify a small child?  BUT... I apologize for offending you.


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## Shalimar (May 8, 2015)

Thank you for your timely clarification, Holly. This is the truth. The anger and name calling upset me. It is not easy to peel back one's skin to expose the raw flesh beneath, but to have one's motives scorned is painful indeed. Even worse when it is a woman.


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## QuickSilver (May 8, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Thank you for your timely clarification, Holly. This is the truth. The anger and name calling upset me. It is not easy to peel back one's skin to expose the raw flesh beneath, but to have one's motives scorned is painful indeed. Even worse when it is a woman.



Now who is over reacting..  I don't believe anyone scorned you, your experiences or your motives...  I felt the SCORN from your direction at anyone who dared spank their children or the implication that we were not very atuned to a "better way"...   That was offensive to me..


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## Shalimar (May 8, 2015)

My mother, although A narcissist, was not the main perpetrator of my abuse. She does not merit the psychopathic label. Why can you not apologize? We all make mistakes. ,


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## hollydolly (May 8, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Really?  What do YOU call grown adults who injure, sexually abuse or otherwise terrify a small child?  BUT... I apologize for offending you.



I just* told* you what my father was..he was a _Vicious bully_ to his wife and children ..my mother was a victim who suffered from serious depression due to his bullying and turned to alcohol and prescription meds as an escape from it, but it made her very angry at times so she would lash out also occasionally. Neither of them were psychopaths...and if you continue with this  I will put you on ignore because you are being completely and utterly offensive .


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## QuickSilver (May 8, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> My mother, although A narcissist, was not the main perpetrator of my abuse. She does not merit the psychopathic label. Why can you not apologize? We all make mistakes. ,



I did..   But.. someone who witnesses a child being abused and does not stop it.. is pretty much an accomplice.   If anyone.. even their father abused my kids like that...  I'd have taken their head off...  and gotten my kids out of harms way.   Do you not think that was her responsibility?

I think this is getting too intense and too personal...  Perhaps we should end this conversation..  Again.. sorry for the offense..


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## hollydolly (May 8, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Thank you for your timely clarification, Holly. This is the truth. The anger and name calling upset me. *It is not easy to peel back one's skin to expose the raw flesh beneath, but to have one's motives scorned is painful indeed. Even worse when it is a woman.*



I absolutely agree Shali..


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## Shalimar (May 8, 2015)

Thank you for your apology, QS. With respect, you are attributing blame without knowing the facts. My mother was not knowledgable re the abuse i suffered, for the very good reason, had I told, she would have been killed. This is not a world, thank goodness, that you comprehend. I agree, it is becoming too intense.


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## hollydolly (May 8, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Really?  What do YOU call grown adults who injure, sexually abuse or otherwise terrify a small child?  BUT... I apologize for offending you.



Thank you for your apology


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## SeaBreeze (May 8, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> I think you've really over-reacted here QS..I certainly didn't imply in any of my posts that YOU or anyone else..abused your children...however calling our parents psychopaths is offensive...
> I have never implied you were abusive to your children, or called you or your family members an offensive name ...



I agree with all you've said, and I saw no such implication from you either Holly.


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## hollydolly (May 8, 2015)

Thank you SB..


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## Glinda (May 8, 2015)

After I  posted yesterday, I chose not to access this thread again until now.  What Holly, Shali and I suffered brings tears to my eyes.  The fact that it is causing this intense anger among friends on this thread just makes it worse.  Yes, I agree we should all step back and try to cool off.  It's just too sad to go further and serves no useful purpose.  I will not access this thread again.


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## applecruncher (May 8, 2015)

(shaking my head)

I’ve been avoiding this thread.  This morning I finally summoned the courage to read it, and I’m VERY surprised and saddened by some of the posts.

{{{Holly}}} and a few others. 

I have my own childhood stories of abuse and neglect I that I either experienced or witnessed.  But instead of telling those stories, I’ve decided to pet my kitty, eat some ice cream then go for a long walk……..it’s a lovely day and I want to enjoy it.


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## AZ Jim (May 8, 2015)

I too have avoided this until now.  I just want to say two things, I can't tell you ladies how sad it makes me to hear of the horrible things you endured as children.  There's no making it all go away as it is all fact, though thankfully in the past.  I am sorry for it and I hope one day you all are able to step out of the ashes left there by your trials of fire.  I also feel so lucky to have had parents who were not only not cruel to my brother and I but on many occasions fiercely defended their not always "good" sons.  It is a subject that can bring forth raw feeling and in this case very nice members who like and respect one another inadvertently hit sore spots.  I know it didn't affect their friendship however.  Misunderstanding come so easy in this kind of topic.


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## hollydolly (May 8, 2015)

Bless you AC and jim for being so understanding and so sorry AC that you suffered too ((((hugs)))...it's not something many of us want to tell the world, but we all had to keep silent about it when we were young, so why on earth should we still have to keep quiet about it as adults? That's my opinion anyway, and if it helps other people who suffered then that can only be a good result .


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## Shalimar (May 8, 2015)

Thank you AC and Jim. Hugs to you, AC. I agree with you, Holly. We should speak our piece as adults if we so choose, whether for our own healing process, or to educate the public re how widespread these horrors are. Silence only perpetuates the problem, and leaves the innocent victims awash in guilt and shame. We should be proud survivors, not victims.:love_heart:


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## Debby (May 8, 2015)

Laurie said:


> I believe in a "natural" upbringing.
> 
> Watch a lion or a bear cuff their kids when they misbehave, without injuring them.
> 
> Children are like puppies, they have to be trained, but they are not like horses, they don't need to be broken.



Sorry but horses don't need to be 'broken' either.  Quiet patience and take as long as is needed.


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## SeaBreeze (May 8, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> I have my own childhood stories of abuse and neglect I that I either experienced or witnessed.  But instead of telling those stories, I’ve decided to pet my kitty, eat some ice cream then go for a long walk……..it’s a lovely day and I want to enjoy it.



Sorry Applecruncher. :girl_hug:  Hope you had a nice walk, give your kitty a big hug from me.


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## Davey Jones (May 8, 2015)

IM a grandfather with 2 kids to take care  17 & 9,the Dad tell me do whatever it need to get there attention.
I use the knuckle of the middle finger  on the head to get their attention. ,it seems quite effective as my Dad used it on me.


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## AZ Jim (May 8, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> IM a grandfather with 2 kids to take care  17 & 9,the Dad tell me do whatever it need to get there attention.
> I use the knuckle of the middle finger  on the head to get their attention. ,it seems quite effective as my Dad used it on me.



I knew all along you had brain damage.  I do not approve of that particular method btw.  I am not really into corporal punishment even though I was swatted on the butt as a kid, it was seldom and always deserved.  I loved the swatter and cherish his memory.


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## Warrigal (May 8, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> IM a grandfather with 2 kids to take care  17 & 9,the Dad tell me do whatever it need to get there attention.
> I use the knuckle of the middle finger  on the head to get their attention. ,it seems quite effective as my Dad used it on me.



Davey is making a point here. For the most part we tend to copy practices that our own parents used when we were children unless we were so badly affected that we vowed never to repeat that behaviour. That is why parenting classes are important for new mums and dads. If I was starting over again I would do things differently.

For the members who had the courage to lay bare their souls on this thread I say well done for having the courage to educate the rest of us. I hope that none of my posts have poured salt into your open wounds. If they have, please know that that was not my intention.


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## Shalimar (May 8, 2015)

DW thank you so much for your kind and supportive remarks. Nothing you posted caused me any distress. Your ethics are beyond question, as is your compassion.:love_heart:


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## Warrigal (May 8, 2015)

:bighug:


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## Kathy G in MI (May 8, 2015)

Was and did. I was talking about spankings to someone and one of my grown sons was there and he said he doesn't remember ever being spanked! I had the blood blisters on my hands to prove it back in the day. He was definitely spanked as were his 2 brothers!


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## SeaBreeze (May 8, 2015)

I babysat for this woman when I was younger, it was from afternoon, overnight to the next morning when I went home.  She had four little kids, all close in age, one infant baby. 

 The kids were a bit spoiled and on the wild side, and she told me from the getgo that if I needed to spank them because they weren't obeying me, I had her blessing.  She said that in front of them.  I just said that I thought they would be good for me, and I shouldn't have to do that. 

 They challenged me at times, but I used some reverse psychology and other types of reasoning with them, and never had to spank at all.  So, we all felt good about that.  In fact, the mother was really impressed that they were so respectful to me and better behaved than before I watched them.  Didn't do that for very long though, very little money and took a lot of my personal time.  Good experience overall, they liked me and I liked them too.


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## Underock1 (May 9, 2015)

I was never spanked or hit in any way. My wife was not spanked or hit in any way. We raised two boys without spanking or hitting, and a minimum of yelling. My son raised our two grandsons in the same way. Never had a problem with any of them.


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## Debby (May 10, 2015)

I've been hanging back a bit lately but I was reading through this thread and it did bring back a few 'moments' in my own childhood.  But nowhere near as bad as Holly's, Shalimars and Glinda's.  Dear ladies, I am so sorry that you went through that, brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it!  You're all obviously made of much better stuff than were those people who were supposed to protect and love you!

In my kids case, my oldest daughter got spanked a couple of times but the sound of her crying and terrified screaming brought back vivid recollections of my own terror and we quit doing that.  I think she was about five at the time and as stubborn as they come, but I just couldn't do it after those two times.  I guess we resorted to it because that is what both my husband I knew from our own childhoods.  

Somehow the topic came up of the spankings that I got, just a couple weeks ago when I was talking to my own mom and she seemed to think it was no big deal but I couldn't 'zip it' on this topic as I usually do with difficult issues and had to let her know that I did remember if you know what I mean.  Our youngest daughter never got a spanking and my grandchildren have never gotten a spanking either and the oldest is eight and the youngest is four and a half.  I think that despite the two that their mom got when a kid, probably the fact that we learned how to talk to her and help her learn why it's better to behave and be nice has led the way for her to learn to be a great mom in the discipline department.  Discipline in our/her family is losing privileges, spending time separated from where the fun is, etc.


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## Underock1 (May 10, 2015)

Way to go Debby. That's the tough part. Breaking the chain. As you heard from your Mom, it was no big deal to her, because everybody did it. The old "spare the rod" BS.


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## applecruncher (May 10, 2015)

Something I used to hate when it came to corporal punishment Is when a parent would delay the spanking/beating until later in the evening after supper and usually before the kid went to bed.

I really liked my stepdad; nice guy who was good to my mother.  But he wasn’t all that fond of my younger brother (long story behind that).  He would warn brother in advance “you’re gonna get it”.  So the kid was expected to sit and eat dinner, take a bath, get into PJs, then go to his room…knowing a whipping was coming.  Listening to the crying really upset me and I would sometimes go into brother’s room to try to comfort him.


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## Shalimar (May 10, 2015)

Thanks so much everyone who responded to our stories with warmth and understanding. Big hugs to all.:love_heart:


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## Cookie (May 10, 2015)

I too was very sad to read of the terrible childhood experiences of such  sweet and lovely people.  You deserve so much better.
I send you love and healing energy.:tranquillity:


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## Shalimar (May 10, 2015)

Thank you, Cookie.:love_heart:


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## merlin (May 12, 2015)

I too like others have hesitated to read and reply to this thread, I never experienced any violence or spankings in my family, I did get spanked once by the headmaster in my junior school as an example to an unruly class, I feel shame and injustice to this day, as I was not even involved in the disruption.

I don't believe in any violence to children, but as humans we fail of course, so all we can do is be constantly aware of our own emotions when children misbehave and have tantrums, and try to find a better way of dealing with it than violence.

I have great respect for Holly, Shali and Glinda for sharing their pain here, and while I can never enter the emotional world of those examples of extreme violence, I feel that Holly and Shali by *choosing *not to pass on the violent behaviour pattern to their children was the most important and bravest thing they could have done. 
Too many of us unthinkingly inflict our own failings on our children, and as a result we hold back any evolution into becoming a better and more caring human society.




Shalimar said:


> I hear you, Holly. The monsters in my life would be jailed as well. Unfortunately , ritual abuse still continues, and child sex slaves are all too common. Wealthy patrons of exclusive pedophile establishments can have anything they can afford, including snuff films. Welcome to the world of the hundred year old child.:love_heart: The physical and ****** abuse I incurred were nothing in comparison with the emotional horror.




Sadly this is all too true, we in the UK have been going through a whole raft of investigations into abuse dating back to the '60s up to present times as a result of the Jimmy Savile affair, http://is.gd/KS87Rw and much at the very top levels I feel is still being hidden.
Wealth and power it seems can at times bring out the worst aspects of our nature, in the form of terrible abuse of our children.


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## Kadee (May 12, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> Ditto Glinda..ditto... I got the worst of it, my brother got a lot of it..but my 2 younger sisters never did ...I could never understand that , and  they grew to be very manipulative and would lie to my father for the fun of watching me getting a beating.
> 
> No little  smackings...but beaten to a pulp with fist, feet, belt buckles,  broom handles.. and more. Humiliation beatings as well ..( I won't go into details) and other stuff .far worse. He broke my coccyx once by  kicking me until I could no longer stand and hauling me up to continue kicking and I'd fall down again and he'd hail me up again to continue  kicking...
> 
> ...


I fully understand Holly, Many can have empathy for suffering we encountered as innocent children, however it's my belief    No One .....unless you have lived in that type of environment can really fully understand .


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## Debby (May 12, 2015)

merlin said:


> I too like others have hesitated to read and reply to this thread, I never experienced any violence or spankings in my family, I did get spanked once by the headmaster in my junior school as an example to an unruly class, I feel shame and injustice to this day, as I was not even involved in the disruption.
> 
> .......




I had an experience like that too once Merlin so I know exactly how you felt.

We had a substitute teacher for a day or two and she was giving us a test.  The child in the next row leaned towards me and asked something like where she was to write her name and as I pointed to the corner on the page, the sub looked up and assumed we were cheating.  Now I can tell you that when I was in elementary school, I loved being at school, excelled and ALWAYS followed the rules so I would never cheat or even help someone else cheat.  The thought of getting caught filled me with fear and besides, you just don't do that!

So we got called to the front and the teacher searched through the drawers of her desk looking for the strap and I remember how I stood there feeling like I was going to die.  The humiliation was profound and fear of the pain that was coming was overwhelming.  Fortunately for us, our teacher didn't believe in strapping kids so she didn't have one in her desk.  I think it took several weeks to get over that experience!


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