# Is This Racism?



## fureverywhere (Sep 28, 2016)

Personally I think it's just kind of dumb, but I don't know.
https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/this-racist-dunkin-donuts-ad-is-dividing-the-internet-2-160720299.html


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 28, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> Personally I think it's just kind of dumb, but I don't know.
> https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/this-racist-dunkin-donuts-ad-is-dividing-the-internet-2-160720299.html



I'd say it's translation is correct except for the word 'if'. & Yes, it's a form of racism they actually impose upon themselves. After so many decades of watching European & American movies and commercials where the stars were predominantly white. Many many have been brainwashed into thinking that lighter skin and hair are more lovely. The commercials I saw while there that irritated me to no end were for skin bleach creme. First they show a woman having a darker shade of skin before using the creme & then later with a lighter skin saying " Let our creme bring out the true beauty in you.". In other words, the lighter skin is the most beautiful. I hated that ad. You will see also in families the lighter skinnned girl being called the 'most beautiful one' and her darker sister considered less beautuful. This is done to girls by their own families and makes me rather nuts when I've seen it done. Sometimes they will say their daughter is too dark and will not be easy to marry . I never ever have heard them say a man was too dark though. It's always the females that are 'too dark". Yes this is bad in my opinion & damaging , but we haven't even fixed the self image & racism problems in our own country yet.


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## fureverywhere (Sep 28, 2016)

The skin lightening thing...I was reading a book about the culture of Thailand yesterday. Something I found sad in one of the sidebars was the popularity of skin bleaching. Apparently a deeper skin tone is seen as peasant by some standards of beauty. My daughter in law is a Thai native. She has a gorgeous olive brown complexion. It's sad that in her country some women feel that Wonder Bread is a preferred skin tone.


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## Warrigal (Sep 28, 2016)

Is it racism or snobbery?

In some societies being brown is the sign of the labouring classes, of people who toil in the sun.
Paler skins are considered to be a sign of nobility.

Aristocratic Chinese women were once completely encased in white cotton garments when bathing in the ocean to preserve their pale skins. The white makeup of the Geisha probably indicated high class courtesans rather than common prostitutes.

Apparently Chinese women still avoid the sun when bathing. The face masks are called facekinis.
The French would have an apoplexy.


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## fureverywhere (Sep 28, 2016)

Jeez, for those of us who would have to pour self-tanner over our heads for a light glow. Really it's unbelievable...the standard that ridiculously pale is desirable? Back in the day they used lead based makeup for lightening. Probably the stuff marketed now is even more toxic.


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## tnthomas (Sep 28, 2016)

A lot of cultures have a history of favoring lighter complexion over darker.  Asian and some latin cultures, being a couple examples.    Here, some Mexican women walking down the street will shield themselves with umbrellas, to prevent darkening due to the sun.  When I was in Vietnam I noticed that the dark complected Montagnards where relegated to the lower echelons of the Vietnamese social order.   I think perhaps within the caste system of India there is favoritism of lighter complexion, in the levels of society.


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## Warrigal (Sep 28, 2016)

Women have always been seen as symbols of the status of their menfolk and their physical appearance has reflected the current social values. In past times women had to be fleshy to symbolise fertility and the affluence of their husbands. 

Today the opposite is the norm. The wives and consorts of wealthy men must be tall, leggy and busty but narrow at the hips, with perfect hair, skin and teeth. In short, they must look sexy to boost the ****** reputation of the men. These days how many really successful men have wives who look like Sally Field - short and dark, looking like the girl next door?

In the days of Marilyn Monroe and other platinum blondes, very blonde hair was a sign of affluence because it cost so much more to maintain than other hair colours. My natural fair hair didn't rate highly on the affluence scale because it was obviously more sun kissed than store bought.


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## Butterfly (Sep 28, 2016)

In earlier times, European aristocratic women were obsessed with keeping their skins as "fair" as possible, even using arsenic creams to accomplish that.  Crazy (and sometimes fatal).

Secondly, I do think (and this may be an unpopular statement) that nowdays many people are looking for racism where it doesn't exist.  I prefer dark chocolate over white chocolate.  Does that make me some kind of racist?  I would prefer the chocolate donut over that white one (if I ate donuts anymore, which I don't).  I also like white meat chicken and do not care for dark meat at all.  Is that racist?  Maybe we should stop looking for racism where it doesn't exist and concern ourselves with dealing with it where it does.


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 28, 2016)

I think I'm going to have to disagree that it isn't a form of racism. When a child is made to feel inferior based upon their skin shade it is not okay in my book. What a grown up wants to obsess with is one thing, but when they pass these silly obsessions on to small children I'm not okay with that. I heard it used as insults to small children while I was in the middle east. I watched one lady get mad at a 4  year old for something trivial and she yelled at her and ended her sentence with " And you're dark!" I saw the hurt on the child's face as she was made to feel inferior over the shade of her skin. I think anytime people are made to feel inferior over their skin shade it feels racist to me. When someone is viewed as being superior based on skin shade it bothers me and I can't help but feel it's a form of racism. There is nothing a very dark woman can do to make herself fair & why should she have to feel like she has to? Children watch commercials. How does a dark child feel watching a commercial that says her dark skin is not as lovely?


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 28, 2016)

https://www.quora.com/Isnt-it-racis...-obsessed-with-the-idea-of-being-fair-skinned


Indian Ethnicity and People
Part 1
Isn't it racist to have advertisements like Fair and Lovely (or, Fair and Handsome for men)? Why are the majority of Indians so obsessed with the idea of being fair skinned?
6 Answers


Sreeja Raveendran, Contributor to 'Dark is beautiful'
Written Aug 26, 2015
Well, I think I need to share my story which was published in 'Dark is beautiful' campaign.


Here you go! -Read the story @Surviving Discrimination: The Sreeja Raveendran Story
Yes, I have been called mean names in school on account of being dark.
Yes, I have been rejected in the matrimonial space by parents of several non-eligible bachelors.
Yes, I have not been chosen to occupy the front line of dancers for a show.
Yes, I have been reminded of my colour several times at my workplace.
Yes, I have been asked at beauty product stores if I needed a fairness cream.
Yes, I was asked to cut a cake during my farewell at work which said, ‘Goodbye Blacky.'
Yes, I have created content for a fairness cream.






Dark, darker, darkest. Once you have been identified with a shade of dark, you are doomed to face one or all of those incidents stated above. With all the incidents mentioned above, I was surrounded by educated civilised humans who knew what they were doing.


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

Part 2 


Blatant taunts are many. But I can also go on and on about subtle references to my colour made by friends, relatives and colleagues at office, parties, or social gatherings. I have chosen to ignore these comments or appear unaffected by them. But deep down inside, as all of who have been in this situation know, I feel the sting.


I used to read and re-read the promises of fairness products. I would smear them all over myself and wait for the promised magical change. I hoped, in vain, to change something I had been born with. It was my desperate attempt to be wanted, to be accepted in the ‘fair world’. And then, something happened.


I was asked to create content for a leading fairness product. I experienced a stab of guilt. I had fallen prey to those false promises, and now I was being asked to convince others. I decided to research the fairness product—I was appalled at what I discovered.


Research reveals that, ‘No cream which promises fairness really does so. Creams have ingredients which improve your complexion and fairness is only a figment of your imagination. In other words, commercials play games with the insecure figment of your imagination.’


Research also shows that that sales of a category of fairness creams has increased/ doubled post the continuous screening of a commercial or a promising print ad. Brands take their cue from this pattern and pool in a massive budget to promote their products. In short, it is the consumers who are the creators of this colossal demand in the market.


Life is not fair, and I know it. We all know it. But when faced with staunch prejudice, we do have a choice. We can choose to seek refuge in products that promise us conventional fairness or we can choose to be different from the rest.


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

Part 3


Forget the colour you were born with and focus on attaining a healthy and supple skin. Having a great complexion regardless of colour boosts your confidence.


This has been my learning: Stand apart, create a niche and make yourself heard through your actions. All you needs is confidence and attitude! Face every taunt with a smile. Be unnerved and harbour that fierceness in you. Look into the eyes of those who taunt you and say, "Yes! I am dark, and I am beautiful."


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

[FONT=&quot]*Anonymous*Written Mar 24, 2014





[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Most people in India- even the well meaning ones (like the other answer in this post) tend to consider dark skin to be an imperfection. 

As a dark young girl living in Delhi around the 90s - I was used called offensive names such as ''kaalu'', ''blackie'' or ''kauva'' (crow). When I approached adults with such issues they use to console me by saying ''So what if you are dark?- you are intelligent so no dont worry...'' Even these well meaning adults innately considered ''dark skin'' as something inferior that needed to be ''compensated'' somehow- in my case it was intelligence.

Some of the adults I met- from elder relatives to household helpers used to ask out openly- "Why are you so dark- how did you turn out to be the darkest in the family?" WTF?! Do you want a lesson on genetics?  They then lament on the fact and express their ''sympathies'' to my parents who used that oft repeated line "So what if she is dark...". 

[/FONT]


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

I used to be a good classical dancer but was routinely sidelined for stage performances whilst fair girls who just learnt dancing where put on center stage. When some of my well meaning friends pointed that out to the coordinators in private they gave their reason- "If we put black folk out in the front who will come to watch?"  Such incidents used to occur on a daily basis and are too numerous and too tedious to mention. I eventually grew a thick skin, became numb to the slurs and tried to blind myself to the discrimination. As I grew, I got used to hearing comments such as "You are pretty for a dark girl- if only you were some shades lighter...".


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

Yes! Dark skinned girls do ballet! - but Indian classical? No! let me cake your face with layers of makeup...

However there was that lingering feeling that somehow I had failed as a girl, ''elder relatives'' used to whisper in hushed voices behind my back- "It is very unfortunate that she is very dark - noone will want to marry her but she has a good heart and we will pray for her". Was I insecure after all this? - yes ofcourse! However was I imperfect just because of my dark skin?  

Educated liberal friends used to claim that its just a preference and no harm is meant by it- just like how some Westerners love to have tanned skin. Its not the same- tanning is a natural process under sunglight but rubbing your skin with dangerous chemicals (bleaching) isn't! *Call a spade a spade- it may NOT BE RACISM but it is certainly DISCRIMINATION and preferences born out of discrimination are wrong!*


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

However when I went abroad for my higher studies- my perception shifted! When people used to complement me for my features and flawless skin- that really blew my mind! Hell one of those ''ugly dark unmarriageable Indians'' even turned out to become Miss America!. 

​The idea that dark=ugly is so ingrained in us Indians that I needed to go halfway around the world to realize the truth. Well, news flash!! skin tone and beauty are mutually exclusive.  Beauty is beauty regardless of skin tone. Light, dark, medium, medium dark, extremely dark- it DOES NOT and SHOULD NOT matter!    Open your eyes- Dark can be beautiful!


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

Feel free to read the rest of the comments on how these girls have felt:
https://www.quora.com/Isnt-it-racis...-obsessed-with-the-idea-of-being-fair-skinned


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## Ameriscot (Sep 29, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> The skin lightening thing...I was reading a book about the culture of Thailand yesterday. Something I found sad in one of the sidebars was the popularity of skin bleaching. Apparently a deeper skin tone is seen as peasant by some standards of beauty. My daughter in law is a Thai native. She has a gorgeous olive brown complexion. It's sad that in her country some women feel that Wonder Bread is a preferred skin tone.



We stay in Thailand in the winter and you see many females of all ages, even little girls, with white patches on their faces to lighten their skin.  I think their natural skin tone is beautiful and find it sad they think lighter is better.


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

I think my bottom line is that as a white child with blue eyes I was never told that I was too dark to be in the front row of any play. I was never told my choices for marriage would be limited. I did not hear my own relatives saying things like " Poor thing look at her skin" I was not held back any job because of my skin tone. I was never told I needed to change my skin tone to apply for a job. & so on & so on. So as the Indian girl said.. It might not be racism but it sure is discrimination. I find it terribly sad young children feel limited from such a young age over skin tone.


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## Ameriscot (Sep 29, 2016)

BlunderWoman said:


> I think my bottom line is that as a white child with blue eyes I was never told that I was too dark to be in the front row of any play. I was never told my choices for marriage would be limited. I did not hear my own relatives saying things like " Poor thing look at her skin" I was not held back any job because of my skin tone. I was never told I needed to change my skin tone to apply for a job. & so on & so on. So as the Indian girl said.. It might not be racism but it sure is discrimination. I find it terribly sad young children feel limited from such a young age over skin tone.



It is very sad, I agree.  A different experience for our Ugandan 'daughter'.  She has spent a lot of time here in Scotland and often she is in areas where it's rare for them to see someone black.  We were in a supermarket together once and the cashier looked at her exclaimed 'oh what beautiful dark skin you have, just gorgeous!'.


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

Ameriscot said:


> It is very sad, I agree.  A different experience for our Ugandan 'daughter'.  She has spent a lot of time here in Scotland and often she is in areas where it's rare for them to see someone black.  We were in a supermarket together once and the cashier looked at her exclaimed 'oh what beautiful dark skin you have, just gorgeous!'.



I'm so glad she did not have a negative experience. That's really good to hear.


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

Here is one more article on this topic I found so odd as I read it:

[h=1]Ads Pressure Hong Kong Women to Whiten Up[/h]http://womensenews.org/2009/02/ads-pressure-hong-kong-women-whiten/


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## Warrigal (Sep 29, 2016)

I agree with the idea that the Indian experience is more discrimination than racism. In India it is very  bound up with the idea of marriage suitability. Girls must be married off and a dowry must be provided. A girl who is considered unattractive will suffer at the hands of her own family and that of her husband. It is a very cruel society still.


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## Ameriscot (Sep 29, 2016)

BlunderWoman said:


> I'm so glad she did not have a negative experience. That's really good to hear.



She has never had a problem here.  People are curious about her so she's gets a lot of attention.  I've lost track of how much time she has spent here (a series of temporary work permits) but it's more than 3 years and she loves it (even though it's much colder than she is used to!).


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## Ameriscot (Sep 29, 2016)

In Thailand last year there was a very large amount of group tours of Chinese people (didn't see this in previous years), and the women all had big hats, umbrellas, and some even wore long sleeves to keep the sun off.  All were very light skinned.  Funny because the French, Germans and Russians come and all lay out in the sun to get as dark (and wrinkly) as possible.


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## Ameriscot (Sep 29, 2016)

Our Ugandan daughter and I recently had a discussion on how black is used to mean bad and white is used to mean good or pure.  Black sheep, black spot on your soul when you sin - a pure soul is white, a black mark on your record, etc etc.  She did not grow up with racism, it had to be explained to her.  There is no racism in Uganda against blacks, obviously.  But there can be prejudice against different tribes.


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## Ray (Sep 29, 2016)

And then there is the phrase, "Tall, dark and handsome". 

People have perspectives. Calling it "racism" indicates something to condemn and, possibly, a need for government intervention.

Personally, I prefer divergence in appearance and in opinion.


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

well the first post that was posted here was about an ad for Dunkin Donuts that was written in Arabic and translated into English. Fur asked " Is this racist?" I don't think someone can really speak off the top of their head about Arabic culture without knowing anything about the culture or having lived in it for any length of time. Comparing it to American culture won't really do because it isn't American culture. In Arabic culture a woman will remain living with her family until she is wed. During times when men cannot find steady employment a man will be declined as a suitor for a single female if her parents feel he will not be able to provide the basic necessities. It is also during bad economical times that only the 'prettiest' girls will wed with many other women becoming spinsters living with their families for life. So, if a dark girl is considered 'less than' from birth she truly will be discriminated against in life and possibly not marry , so a female can be very affected by this 'light dark thing within that culture. Marriage is extremely important in that culture because relationships outside of marriage are still considered taboo among the Christians as well as the Muslims. We are not talking about American society we are talking about Arabian society which is where the ad of the first post came from.
Children who grow up with a bad self image about the things they cannot change in their lives most usually suffer from a bad self image. Really talking about the culture of another country is not going to fix the social problems in their country. It's just outsider speculation. Sadly , most of these 'dark' girls are not even going to view what's being done to them as discrimination , they are going to blame themselves for not being 'good enough' or feel cursed for not being 'light enough'. You will not ever see a dark woman doing a commercial there. This is why showing a broad color spectrum in movies and commercials is important for a child's sense of worth. Also, outsider speculation. Many times when I was there they would watch Jerry Springer on satellite and think American families and society must be a lot like Jerry Springer. This is just one example of how hard it is to judge a culture based on what is seen or heard on television. 
Here is an interesting video about self image and color with children:


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## Butterfly (Sep 29, 2016)

Yes to all this -- but to translate that to donuts??


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## BlunderWoman (Sep 29, 2016)

Butterfly said:


> Yes to all this -- but to translate that to donuts??


It really was a dumb approach to sell donuts on social media, especially since food is more about the flavor, etc. This was posted later ..


@DunkinDonuts

@nfm (1/2) As soon as we became aware of the social media post by our Egyptian franchisee, we asked for it to be removed…


@DunkinDonuts

@nfm (2/2) … Our franchisee immediately complied. We apologize for the offense this posting caused.


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## fureverywhere (Sep 29, 2016)




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## Warrigal (Sep 29, 2016)

Lovely Fur. Who is she?

This beautiful woman is Shakira Baksh who captured the heart of Michael Caine.











http://www.horizonsguyana.com/first-guyanese-beauty-on-the-world-stage/


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## senile1 (Sep 30, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> Personally I think it's just kind of dumb, but I don't know.
> https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/this-racist-dunkin-donuts-ad-is-dividing-the-internet-2-160720299.html




This is why "Political Correctness" is so important in every aspect of  society. One never knows what another may be taken as offensive, so in business and politics, before one writes or says anything, they must take into account what they are saying and how it may be perceived by the public, especially minorities and special interests groups.


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## senile1 (Sep 30, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


>



:love_heart:
I think she just stole mine


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