# Holy Smokes! Trump's Solutions & Details Unprecedented for Early Campaigning!



## Lara (Aug 21, 2015)

I'm hoping for discussions based on the issues that face America and the world as presented in these videos and not on all the media circus stuff and hearsay. This will FIRE YOU UP with a power-packed 30minutes of solutions and details for healing America asap, as well as other countries, from Trump who is winning respect like crazy from all sides! Finally, no more silly personal questions based on out of context comments on past TV Shows. 

Trump is a straight-shooter. This interview is power-packed with an unprecedented amount of well thought out planning presented clearly and concisely. Trump has no fear addressing the tough issues we all face. No holds barred. 

Here it is and below, *Trump's interview with NBC Whitehouse correspondent, Chuck Todd on "Meet The Press"* (scroll down for a 2nd video below this one) 
1:01 - Conservatism, Social Security, Nat'l Debt, Planned Parenthood
6:20 - Isis 
7:00 - Veterans 
9:12 - Saudi Arabia 
12:27 - NATO 
14:00 - Afghanistan and Iraq
14:30 Manufacturing Jobs
17:00 - Iran
22:15 - Mexico's Economy - 22:15





And another *interview with Trump by Hannity*...
At the 12:00 - 13:00 mark on the slide bar below the video is a news report on Hillary…slide the bar past that or just wait the 1 minute for the interview to resume. There are a couple of other shorter breaks but the interview goes to the end. If you don't have 26 minutes…start at the 8:00 mark…or at the 13:00 mark try this:
13:00 - How are you going to get Mexico to pay for the Mexico wall
15:45 - Obamacare
18:45 Planned Parenthood (more on this in second video below)
20:50 Economy & Jobs
23:33 Conservativism vs liberalism


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## AZ Jim (Aug 21, 2015)

Trump is well rehearsed on the mood of some people.  He is a clown in more ways than I will take the time to illustrate.  I am confident that when the chips are down, he'll be gone based on people actually "thinking" beyond taking a slap at the institution.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 21, 2015)

I can't watch any more Trump videos, makes me want to barf.  Just reading some of the sh*te he says turns my stomach.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 21, 2015)

Trump is a showman and has tuned into the anger and vitriol of a very small segment of the Republican base.. and saying to most hateful and ugly things that will never fly in the General..  I swear... he's working for the Clintons.  He's destroying the chance of a Republican ever regaining the White House..   In that respect..  it's a good thing..


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## Lara (Aug 21, 2015)

So all 3 of you have not watched the interviews on the nations key issues? This thread is about the key issues, not gossip nor questions based on The Talk and The Apprentice. It's not about things taken out of context or twisted. Mark Levine pretty much laid that to rest. This thread is about what Trump plans to do about our country.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 21, 2015)

Lara said:


> So all 3 of you have not watched the interviews on the nations key issues? This thread is about the key issues, not gossip nor questions based on The Talk and The Apprentice. It's not about things taken out of context or twisted. Mark Levine pretty much laid that to rest. This thread is about what Trump plans to do about our country.



I've watched ALL of Trumps interviews... He's a Buffoon .   Seriously.. Trump is not Presidential material  and his ideas are nonsense and overly simplistic. He doesn't have a clue.


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## Lara (Aug 21, 2015)

It's too early in the campaign for me to say who I'm for but he's on top of the polls for some reason. 

The people are ready for a doer. Action. Not just promises. They want goals, plans of how to get there, how to fix the major issues we face. The other candidates are good and may soon prove to have this ambition with action plan too…and may be politically correct to boot. We will see.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 21, 2015)

Lara, you are not paying attention.  Trumps early on showing is from republicans sending a message.  Anyone who takes his current positions as a plan of action is fooling themselves, when it's time to mark ballots, watch the change (in the primary balloting, he won't be on the General election ballot unless  he runs third party).  PS I wish he would run third party.


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## Lara (Aug 21, 2015)

Third party is too challenging. He's staying with the party where he's on top in the polls. I'm not only paying attention but I noticed that your first post was too soon to have viewed these interviews. They could change your mind unless your mind is already set. Way early for that.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 21, 2015)

Trump is an idiot.  A bad joke.  An embarrassment.  Fortunately, he doesn't get a lot of attention on the news in the UK.


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## Lara (Aug 21, 2015)

If he's not getting attention in the UK then how do you know? My plan was for this thread to be for those who have viewed the interviews because he comes across much more differently than you all have seen…or worse, heard. Although it is for everyone so all are welcome to post here of course.


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## Jackie22 (Aug 21, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I've watched ALL of Trumps interviews... He's a Buffoon .   Seriously.. Trump is not Presidential material  and his ideas are nonsense and overly simplistic. He doesn't have a clue.



I too watch all the interviews and I agree with QS, Jim and Annie...no way is Trump presidential material.


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## Lara (Aug 21, 2015)

He's different alright…i agree with that. Americans are tired of politicians though. Any thoughts on the issues presented in the videos?


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## AZ Jim (Aug 21, 2015)

Lara said:


> Third party is too challenging. He's staying with the party where he's on top in the polls. I'm not only paying attention but I noticed that your first post was too soon to have viewed these interviews. They could change your mind unless your mind is already set. Way early for that.



Lara, I have watched Trump for years.  I know what he is.  His answers to those interviews are as his advisers wrote them.  His "solutions" are paper tigers.  "I will build a wall (50 Billion dollar estimate) and make Mexico pay for it (Ok, it would have to be slightly on our side of the border, hence it would mean international laws would prevent us from even expecting Mexico to fund it even if Mexico had the funds or will to do so).  He would go to Iraq and destroy their property and seize all their oil.  Really?  At what cost in troops and even if successful how does the United States take over their oil enterprises?  On and on stupid propositions that appeal to anarchists and uneducated.  This man is a arrogant, egotistical spoiled brat who managed to beat his draft notice yet is very freely willing now to "blow hell outta Iran", etc.  Don't suggest I don't know about that jerk.

BTW Annie has dual citizenship in Scotland and the US and knows our politics better than many here in the states.  She votes in our elections.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 21, 2015)

I've seen enough videos of him online to know that I don't want to see any more.  He is a racist, sexist buffoon.  He is mentioned occasionally in the UK news as being high in the polls and some of his 'flaws' are mentioned but they don't go into detail with all the rubbish that he spews.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 21, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> BTW Annie has dual citizenship in Scotland and the US and knows our politics better than many here in the states.  She votes in our elections.



And I don't need tv news to tell me what is going on in the world.  I've got the internet!


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## Lara (Aug 21, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> ... "I will build a wall (50 Billion dollar estimate) and make Mexico pay for it (Ok, it would have to be slightly on our side of the border, hence it would mean international laws would prevent us from even expecting Mexico to fund it even if Mexico had the funds or will to do so).



Trump said if the Mexicans won't pay then we'll charge "a little tariff". He said they want to do business with us so they'll want to help us out. There are a lot of our companies moving down there (as well as everywhere else overseas of course) which brings a lot of money into their country. They are learning from China…and have the money to pay.



			
				AZJim said:
			
		

> BTW Annie has dual citizenship in Scotland and the US and knows our politics better than many here in the states.  She votes in our elections.


Yes, I know Ameriscot is an American living in Scotland. She said the UK isn't giving Trump a lot of attention in the UK so I asked how she knows much about Trump then…that's all. Thank you for your answer Americscot. I wasn't thinking about the internet at that moment of my post…a senior moment I hope is allowed in SFs


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## Jackie22 (Aug 21, 2015)

Donald Trump told NBC News that, as president, he would rescind President Obama’s executive orders on immigration and deport all undocumented immigrants. 

....yea, right, all 10 million of them...pandering to his base, he is just a big bag of wind.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 21, 2015)

Lara said:


> Trump said if the Mexicans won't pay then we'll charge "a little tariff" and they want to do business with us so they'll want to help us out.
> 
> 
> Yes, I know Ameriscot is an American living in Scotland. She said the UK isn't giving Trump a lot of attention in the UK so I asked how she knows much about Trump then…that's all



Very easy to hear about Trump - SF, FB, and news articles online.


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## Lara (Aug 21, 2015)

Everyone is posting before I have a chance to proofread my texts…so fast that I think I'll bow out until things quiet down a little. That's why I don't go to chatrooms…posts are too fast for my typing skills.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 21, 2015)

I like your art though Lara....


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## QuickSilver (Aug 21, 2015)

I particularly like the X-ray explanation of how he intends to find people as they tunnel UNDER the 2,000 mile 20 foot tall wall..  X-ray?  Seriously?  Who in the world believes this crap?


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## QuickSilver (Aug 21, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> Donald Trump told NBC News that, as president, he would rescind President Obama’s executive orders on immigration and deport all undocumented immigrants.
> 
> ....yea, right, all 10 million of them...pandering to his base, he is just a big bag of wind.



Not only deport 10 MILLION undocumented immigrants... BUT all the AMERICAN Citizen children!!   So now he's deporting American Citizens???  And he is going to find lawyers that will be able to prove they are NOT American Citizens... AND while he is at it... Repeal the 14th amendment..   People really take this idiot seriously?


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## AprilT (Aug 21, 2015)

I normally watch Meet The Press most Sundays, also Face The Nation and I didn't miss the Trump interview. They should have included the conversations that took place after the interview, as most were similarly in line in thought with some of the responders here; just lots of hot air nothing concrete, not really answering the questions with reality of how that world works. For one thing that Tariff nonsense would be against free trade and would have many a country right up the US's backside for that stunt.  A lot of what he said as with many sounded real good, but, you can't just Bogart your way around other countries and expect alls going to go well, we see the results of that with the ISIS effect.  

Seriously, if a lot of what Trump said were as easy to accomplish just by saying it, I might even have been in his court.  I jest, but some of it did sound nice.  The funniest thing I've heard of late is that Trump's just a plant by the Clintons.  LOL!  Talk about this all being a circus this all gets more bizarre at times.


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## BobF (Aug 21, 2015)

Most of these posts have no use in our election campaigns.   Wait till next spring and there have been a number of the candidates that have tired or gone broke on the way to the elections.   Then we can observe and decide who of those left are worth all this emotion and name calling that is going on so far.


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## Lon (Aug 21, 2015)

Lara---I have watched all the Trump interviews and found them interesting, and though I am not a Trump fan, I, unlike some of our extremely biased fellow posters don't rule him out of the action for the presidency. Surely you have come to realize that SF is pretty partisan.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 21, 2015)

Lon said:


> Lara---I have watched all the Trump interviews and found them interesting, and though I am not a Trump fan, I, unlike some of our extremely biased fellow posters don't rule him out of the action for the presidency. Surely you have come to realize that SF is pretty partisan.



We all have our opinions.  SF is NOT partisan.  SF is a free forum which has members having viewpoints on many subjects.  That more of us are more liberal than others is a fact and probably to do with the way we view our place in society as opposed to those who have different attitudes.  All are able to express their opinions here,and  that means ALL.


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## Butterfly (Aug 21, 2015)

I agree!  Can you just see him in the international arena?  He'd say something idiotic and have us in God only knows how many wars before the entree was served. Besides which, he has stupid hair!


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## Butterfly (Aug 21, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Lara, I have watched Trump for years.  I know what he is.  His answers to those interviews are as his advisers wrote them.  His "solutions" are paper tigers.  "I will build a wall (50 Billion dollar estimate) and make Mexico pay for it (Ok, it would have to be slightly on our side of the border, hence it would mean international laws would prevent us from even expecting Mexico to fund it even if Mexico had the funds or will to do so).  He would go to Iraq and destroy their property and seize all their oil.  Really?  At what cost in troops and even if successful how does the United States take over their oil enterprises?  On and on stupid propositions that appeal to anarchists and uneducated.  This man is a arrogant, egotistical spoiled brat who managed to beat his draft notice yet is very freely willing now to "blow hell outta Iran", etc.  Don't suggest I don't know about that jerk



I agree!  Can you just see him in the international arena?  He'd say  something idiotic and have us in God only knows how many wars before the  entree was served. Besides which, he has stupid hair!


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## QuickSilver (Aug 21, 2015)

AprilT said:


> I normally watch Meet The Press most Sundays, also Face The Nation and I didn't miss the Trump interview. They should have included the conversations that took place after the interview, as most were similarly in line in thought with some of the responders here; just lots of hot air nothing concrete, not really answering the questions with reality of how that world works. For one thing that Tariff nonsense would be against free trade and would have many a country right up the US's backside for that stunt.  A lot of what he said as with many sounded real good, but, you can't just Bogart your way around other countries and expect alls going to go well, we see the results of that with the ISIS effect.
> 
> Seriously, if a lot of what Trump said were as easy to accomplish just by saying it, I might even have been in his court.  I jest, but some of it did sound nice.  The funniest thing I've heard of late is that Trump's just a plant by the Clintons.  LOL!  Talk about this all being a circus this all gets more bizarre at times.



So he thinks that only MEXICO benefits from trade with the US???  How about how the US benefits from trade with Mexico..  Things are not as easy as Trump seems to think


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## QuickSilver (Aug 21, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> We all have our opinions.  SF is NOT partisan.  SF is a free forum which has members having viewpoints on many subjects.  That more of us are more liberal than others is a fact and probably to do with the way we view our place in society as opposed to those who have different attitudes.  All are able to express their opinions here,and  that means ALL.



Isn't it funny Jim.. When our Conservative members offer their opinions... it's debate... when the Liberal members offer opinions... it's PARTISAN!!  What a hoot.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 21, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Isn't it funny Jim.. When our Conservative members offer their opinions... it's debate... when the Liberal members offer opinions... it's PARTISAN!!  What a hoot.



Yep, well I've grown to expect that so it's no surprise.


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## Shalimar (Aug 21, 2015)

Can't speak for other countries, but here in Canada Trump's name invariably inspires ridicule. People are aghast that the most 
powerful country in the world would even consider someone of his ilk. It makes America a laughing stock globally according to many.


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## Glinda (Aug 21, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I can't watch any more Trump videos, makes me want to barf.  Just reading some of the sh*te he says turns my stomach.



I agree 100%, Annie!  :yuk:


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## Shalimar (Aug 21, 2015)

All giggling aside, can you imagine the reaction the first time "President" Trump makes a disparaging ****** comment about women in a conservative Muslim country? Everything from assassinate the "blonde," to  Kaboom! Yes,  my humour is entirely sarcastic here. It is a terrifying scenario.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 21, 2015)

If he did get the nomination I can see the bumper sticker now "DUMP TRUMP"  almost as good as the Republicans used in California when they went after Gov. Brown.  "If it's brown, flush it down".


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## Glinda (Aug 21, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> All giggling aside, can you imagine the reaction the first time "President" Trump makes a disparaging ****** comment about women in a conservative Muslim country? Everything from assassinate the "blonde," to  Kaboom! Yes,  my humour is entirely sarcastic here. It is a terrifying scenario.



Yes, I can see it now.  He would feel no reluctance to comment on Chancellor Angela Merkel's weight, her clothing choices or perhaps her hair.  Oh, and the poor thing is not a 10!  What a failure she is in Donald's little world!


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## Shalimar (Aug 21, 2015)

I hear you Glinda, but at least the Germans wouldn't kill him for impugning the honour of their women!


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## AprilT (Aug 21, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> So he thinks that only MEXICO benefits from trade with the US???  How about how the US benefits from trade with Mexico..  Things are not as easy as Trump seems to think



Exactly true, also that tariff, which is just another way of saying increase in a tax on goods/supplies it would have many ramifications, quite a rippling effect on businesses/consumers on either side.  I'm not saying one way or the other it can't be done, but for him to say it's a simple matter is naive.  But he knows who he's playing his fiddle to.


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## Jackie22 (Aug 21, 2015)

...here he is on his incredible women..


[h=1]Donald Trump says wife Melania would be ‘an amazing first lady’[/h]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





<...> 

*When will you get Melania out there talking about you?* 

Pretty soon. She wants to do it. She is a very confident person. You've seen her on The View, and you've seen her on different shows. Larry King. You've seen her being interviewed. She's got a great style, and she would be an amazing first lady with heart. 

<...> 

She would care very much about women's issues. We're talking about mostly medical issues but women's issues. She was very strong on that with me the other day. Ivanka and Melania said, "You're not getting fairly treated on your feeling toward women." My mother was this incredible woman. I have known incredible women. I have many women executives, frankly, that are better than my men executives. I pay them the same or more. 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/donald-trump-murdoch-ailes-nbc-816131


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## QuickSilver (Aug 21, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Can't speak for other countries, but here in Canada Trump's name invariably inspires ridicule. People are aghast that the most
> powerful country in the world would even consider someone of his ilk. It makes America a laughing stock globally according to many.



I'm sure..... and it's pretty embarrassing...


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## Shalimar (Aug 21, 2015)

Mentioning no names, a certain person has been nicknamed "the Lump" by various media in an undisclosed country near you, America.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 22, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Can't speak for other countries, but here in Canada Trump's name invariably inspires ridicule. People are aghast that the most
> powerful country in the world would even consider someone of his ilk. It makes America a laughing stock globally according to many.



He's just seen as a joke here.  As was Bush.  If Trump became president I might pretend I was Canadian. It was tempting while Bush was prez but I didn't.


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> With respect, do you really want a First Lady who continuously appears *******?





			
				QuickSilver said:
			
		

> … yep, looks like she is about ready…LOL!


This is my first time to have any participation of any kind in SFs Politics. I'm disappointed that, firstly, not many of late, are on topic regarding the political issues listed in post #1 that America faces in this campaign. Lately the posts, excluding 2 warnings for me from 2 kind members, are a vicious insult to America, to Trump, and as if that's not enough, now his wife. Reminds me of how the media also loves to find the ugliest picture they can of a women and then humiliate them with disgusting filth. I even received a personal insult from a member. 

I am a voter who is not affiliated with any party. I vote for who I want and what I want. I will spend the next year searching and educating myself on all the candidates and their approach to fixing America's issues. You all have not been helpful but rather took a bully-type gang up on Trump & his wife personally. That's been done before. Any fresh ideas on political issues? Any of your own solutions? If these posts in this thread are examples of liberalism, I want no part of it.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but these posts are empty, off topic, and boring to read because, not only are the posts void of any worthy facts on political issues, but also because Americans have heard all these insults ad nauseum. I liken the personal and filthy attack on Trump's wife to the lowest of the low media attacks and dirty campaign tactics on every President and their families. And most Americans have no respect for those who launch this type of personal massacre.

*Here is Trump's Family *(which I'm posting in response to those who attacked Trump's family)*:
*


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

Lara, if your feelings were hurt because of my sarcastic reference to Melania, I apologise. Perhaps I went too far with my Canadian humour, which not all Americans appreciate. However, Mr. Trump has  made very negative/arguably filthy comments about certain women. Many would find it difficult to take such a person seriously as a potential Potus.


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2015)

My feelings have not been hurt in the least. I'm disappointed as fully described in post #50.


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

Thank you for clarifying that. I feel much better.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 22, 2015)

I offer no apology...  I detest Trump and see him AND his stances on most issues as a massive joke... so joking about him is appropriate.  I would find it hard to discuss his policies with any seriousness.


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

QS, I may be wrong, but I think it was my original irreverent comment about Melania's sensuality that was perceived as disgusting and filthy. I think you will receive only a slap on the wrist. I don't think apologies are being accepted at the present time whether warranted or not. Perhaps that is less than courteous also? Once again, the culture clash. The Canadianim would not even blink at this satirical content.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 22, 2015)

OK..  Here is TRUMP on the issues

http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2015)

I'm afraid you're both still missing the point of this thread as explained in post #50. These posts are all off-topic to America's issues and solutions (I don't see it as a cultural clash but rather a choice to bash Trump and his family personally). I already posted Trump on the issues with 2 interviews in the OP that were focused on America's issues and his ideas for solutions rather than the personal mess surrounding the 1st debate. I was hoping for a discussion that gave member's own solutions if you disagree with Trump's. I even listed the issues. Unfortunately, all posts are still hung up on the personal mess part….it's been done. You may start your own thread of Trump Bashing if you'd like.

I didn't need to accept your apology, Shalimar, because there was no need for an apology. As I said, "My feelings were not hurt". I don't need anyone's apology, nor expect any, nor ask for any. You did nothing wrong except to post off-topic as did everyone. You're certainly free to Trump Bash in a Trump bashing thread. You're also welcome to bash Trump's political soutions to America's issues in this thread.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 22, 2015)

So what if there is nothing serious about Trump and his "solutions" to discuss?   Guess the thread can die then.


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> So what if there is nothing serious about Trump and his "solutions" to discuss?   Guess the thread can die then.


Sure. If you don't find anything serious about America's issues and solutions then this is not the thread to post in.


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

Actually Lara, posters have addressed some of the issues you raised as OP. Granted not  all until QS most recent post. Certainly you are under no compulsion to accept any remark apology or otherwise that I offer. I think it is difficult to expect posters to accept your assumptions of their intent/motives around certain posts without being perceived as less than willing to entertain political viewpoints that differ from what you consider to be acceptable. In discussing politics, a capacity to avoid personalizing another's viewpoint is often valuable. That said, unless we all preach to the choir, disappointment  is at times inevitable. We can choose to be gracious and let it go, or not.  Have a nice day.


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## Meanderer (Aug 22, 2015)

*The man with a plan: Donald trump’s 5-part strategy to make america great again*

Trump's 5 Part Strategy

In #1 Foreign Interventions Must Require Cost-Sharing Plans to Reduce U.S. Costs and Guarantee Veterans and Their Families Are Protected) I liked "Money, itself is a weapon".  

I also liked #3: Crack Down on China’s Currency Manipulation by Calculating Taxes on Imports Based on How Much a Manufacturing Country’s Currency is Undervalued.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 22, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> QS, I may be wrong, but I think it was my original irreverent comment about Melania's sensuality that was perceived as disgusting and filthy. I think you will receive only a slap on the wrist. I don't think apologies are being accepted at the present time whether warranted or not. Perhaps that is less than courteous also? Once again, the culture clash. *The Canadianim would not even blink at this satirical content*.



Neither would the British.


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## Jackie22 (Aug 22, 2015)

Election of our president is serious business and should be treated as such.  I find it very disappointing that there are those that would even consider Trump as
presidential material.   His lacking of qualifications have been out there for all to see, one only has to be aware. The fact that the majority see him as a joke 
should be reason enough to reexamine any thoughts of his worthiness.  Any lacking of worthiness should be a big part of our assessment of a president. Trump's lacking of worthiness is clear and abundant. 


Disappointments are universal.


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Actually Lara, posters have addressed some of the issues you raised as OP…you are under no compulsion to accept any remark or apology..that I offer


Yes, some have posted on the political issues like AprilT, az, and meanderer. I'm only disappointed that it has turned into trashing people as of late.

I accept your apology but the slander was toward Trump's wife, not me. And why is it called "Canadian Humor" when you trash a woman but you say Trump is guilty when he says something much milder than you did against a woman? He was insult-joking in the same way. Is "Canadian Humor" perhaps a card to play when a crutch is needed?

Edit: I missed Meanderer's post #61 on Trump's 5-Part Strategy Plan with his opinion. That's what this thread is all about. Thank you!


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## QuickSilver (Aug 22, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> Election of our president is serious business and should be treated as such.  I find it very disappointing that there are those that would even consider Trump as
> presidential material.   His lacking of qualifications have been out there for all to see, one only has to be aware. The fact that the majority see him as a joke
> should be reason enough to reexamine any thoughts of his worthiness.  Any lacking of worthiness should be a big part of our assessment of a president. Trump's lacking of worthiness is clear and abundant.
> 
> ...



What Trump has tapped into is the hatred and the anger on the Right.  Look how these people have been lied to by their politicians in order to manipulate them into voting for them.   Every GOP candidate has made promises they knew darn well they couldn't keep..  Like banning gay marriage. overturning Obamacare, and Roe vs Wade.... as well as bringing Obama himself to his knees..  Didn't happen..  Our President is stronger than ever.  So sure.. these people feel duped... which they were.... and they are angry about it and eager to throw their support to a true master manipulator like Trump.   They are being duped again..only this time by someone who is saying all the hateful things they wish they could say...  one would think they would learn..


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## Ameriscot (Aug 22, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> What Trump has tapped into is the hatred and the anger on the Right.  Look how these people have been lied to by their politicians in order to manipulate them into voting for them.   Every GOP candidate has made promises they knew darn well they couldn't keep..  Like banning gay marriage. overturning Obamacare, and Roe vs Wade.... as well as bringing Obama himself to his knees..  Didn't happen..  Our President is stronger than ever.  So sure.. these people feel duped... which they were.... and they are angry about it and eager to throw their support to a true master manipulator like Trump.   They are being duped again..  one would think they would learn..



As always, you hit the nail on the head.


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

QS, many people practice the art of selective listening. Pablum for the public as it were. They want to feel safe, without having to think for themselves. That is one of the cornerstones of effective manipulation techniques. Conditioning on a grand scale. Scary isn't it?


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

Lara, I do not believe I slandered anyone. But given your comments around my supposed motives, I sense a double standard at work. I have done my best to be gracious. C'est tout, c'est fini. Pax.


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## Jackie22 (Aug 22, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> What Trump has tapped into is the hatred and the anger on the Right.  Look how these people have been lied to by their politicians in order to manipulate them into voting for them.   Every GOP candidate has made promises they knew darn well they couldn't keep..  Like banning gay marriage. overturning Obamacare, and Roe vs Wade.... as well as bringing Obama himself to his knees..  Didn't happen..  Our President is stronger than ever.  So sure.. these people feel duped... which they were.... and they are angry about it and eager to throw their support to a true master manipulator like Trump.   They are being duped again..only this time by someone who is saying all the hateful things they wish they could say...  one would think they would learn..



This is very true and apparent in his immigration and race stance....just tell'em what they want to hear.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 22, 2015)

If you listen close to Trump..  90% of what he talks about is playing on anger.  He is also making lot's of promises without bothering to outline exactly HOW he intends to carry them out..  But he is giving people "hope" I guess..  unfortunately it's based on virtually nothing of substance.  For example.. his stance on the 10+ million of undocumented immigrants and their American citizen children.   Deport them!!!   They all have to GO!!!!   Exactly HOW are you going to do that Donald?  How will you round up 10 million people?   How will you PAY for it?   When pressed by a reporter... he had no answer..  When asked "what if they have nowhere to to?   "We'll work with them" was his answer.   What apparently appeals to a portion of the Republican base is turning America into some sort of Jack Boot Police state..  So I guess if you are White.. you will feel safe..


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

What I find difficult to comprehend is how he gets away with changing his stance so often during the last few years. Isn't that perceived as waffling? Hardly presidential. Leads one to surmise a certain expediency might be at work.


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

QS, I think you mean white and male? Women of any colour are not secure under Trump's policies.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 22, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> QS, I think you mean white and male? Women of any colour are not secure under Trump's policies.



Yes...  I agree..

What's sad is that he is forcing many of the other GOP candidates to adopt some of his lunacy..  Even Bush used the word "Anchor Baby"...  Which even if Bush wins the nomination will be played over and over.... and in Spanish.   NO candidate has ever won the Presidency without getting at least 35% of the Hispanic vote.  I believe Romney only got 27%.... and all he did was support "self deportation"...  What percentage of the Hispanic vote do you suppose the GOP will be getting in 2016?


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> What Trump has tapped into is the hatred and the anger on the Right.  Look how these people have been lied to by their politicians in order to manipulate them into voting for them.   Every GOP candidate has made promises they knew darn well they couldn't keep..  Like banning gay marriage. overturning Obamacare, and Roe vs Wade.... as well as bringing Obama himself to his knees..  Didn't happen..  Our President is stronger than ever.  So sure.. these people feel duped... which they were.... and they are angry about it and eager to throw their support to a true master manipulator like Trump.   They are being duped again..only this time by someone who is saying all the hateful things they wish they could say...  one would think they would learn..


In this thread I only see a lot of hatred and anger from the Left and none from the Right. According to today's "Rassmussen's Presidential Tracking Report", Obama has a strong approval rate of 25% and a strong disapproval rate of 41%. Are you saying that Obama didn't make any promises he knew he couldn't keep? Who really knows until it happens? He's made plenty of promises that never happened. Example: Obama's promise regarding Obamacare, "If you want your healthcare plan you can keep it".


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

I don't know obviously, but what portion of the Hispanic electorate will be most likely to find his hateful statements most offensive and vote their outrage?


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2015)

Meanderer said:


> Trump's 5 Part Strategy
> 
> In #1 Foreign Interventions Must Require Cost-Sharing Plans to Reduce U.S. Costs and Guarantee Veterans and Their Families Are Protected) I liked "Money, itself is a weapon".
> 
> I also liked #3: Crack Down on China’s Currency Manipulation by Calculating Taxes on Imports Based on How Much a Manufacturing Country’s Currency is Undervalued.


I almost missed seeing this gem! Let me review your link and get back to you later. I have to go for now.


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

I thought this was a thread about Mr. Trump. Surely any direct discussion of the President is off topic? Also, The only left wing poster on this thread as of yet is me. The others are moderates. I certainly feel no hatred toward any segment of American politics, regardless of my personal political stance. That is the Canadian way. Please do not presume to dictate my feelings. If you were cognizant of Canadian law, and the very strict statutes limiting free speech if deemed to incite hatred, which is a serious crime, you would not suggest I am disseminating such. That is a slanderous comment, and deeply insulting to any Canadian.


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## BobF (Aug 22, 2015)

Too challenge Trump so badly is forgetting some things from the Democrat past.   Trump is definitely learning about our political system and it's curious ways of doing things.   It was not always this way over the many, 200+ years of the US government, with folks of little party alliance and political training.   Only in this last, since 1960's, time frame.   How about that haberdasher from Missouri back in the 1940's.   A quiet man that remained quiet even after he ordered some very strong orders for our people.   

I don't think we need to have those that can speak from both sides of their mouth at the same time, as most politicians can and do do.   

We, both Democrats and Republicans plus the larger group of independents, will have nothing to concern about till after the nomination debates get going and the number of candidates gets reduced, or increased on the Democrats side, for such twisted posts to have any meaning at all.

Sad to see this thread so messed up by a few irrational ones that only post hate and nothing worth reading.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 22, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I thought this was a thread about Mr. Trump. Surely any direct discussion of the President is off topic? Also, *The only left wing poster on this thread as of yet is me.* The others are moderates. I certainly feel no hatred toward any segment of American politics, regardless of my personal political stance. That is the Canadian way. Please do not presume to dictate my feelings. If you were cognizant of Canadian law, and the very strict statutes limiting free speech if deemed to incite hatred, which is a serious crime, you would not suggest I am disseminating such. That is a slanderous comment, and deeply insulting to any Canadian.



I usually stay clear of US political discussions, but I am left wing as well, not moderate.  I've been more concerned recently with UK politics.


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2015)

BobF said:


> Too challenge Trump so badly is forgetting some things from the Democrat past.   Trump is definitely learning about our political system and it's curious ways of doing things.   It was not always this way over the many, 200+ years of the US government, with folks of little party alliance and political training.   Only in this last, since 1960's, time frame.   How about that haberdasher from Missouri back in the 1940's.   A quiet man that remained quiet even after he ordered some very strong orders for our people.
> 
> I don't think we need to have those that can speak from both sides of their mouth at the same time, as most politicians can and do do.
> 
> ...


Yes, sad. And yes, Trump is clearly learning about the process. He's got a year to brush up. Remember when Obama would read every word from the tele-prompter whenever speaking to the public? He had speech writers too. Trump is paying for his own campaign, doesn't have speech writers, and speaks his own mind without tele-prompters. I think that's why people are giving him leeway for his misspoken lines. He readily admits that his views have evolved over the years. The younger generation likes that because it shows growth and keeping up with the times. Trump is real…you know exactly what you're getting. I think a lot of young people are ready for that and that includes the young at heart. It's the 21st century. Seniors have a different way of looking at things than the younger generation of voters.


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

Hi Annie, I did not realise we were both left wing. Excellent.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 22, 2015)

Lara said:


> In this thread I only see a lot of hatred and anger from the Left and none from the Right. According to today's "Rassmussen's Presidential Tracking Report", Obama has a strong approval rate of 25% and a strong disapproval rate of 41%. Are you saying that Obama didn't make any promises he knew he couldn't keep? Who really knows until it happens? He's made plenty of promises that never happened. Example: Obama's promise regarding Obamacare, "If you want your healthcare plan you can keep it".



Lara.... you are misreading the comments.   I certainly don't feel hatred toward the people being fooled by "The Donald"   Just pity..   They have been fooled by the GOP  since the 60's..   Now they are being fooled by whatever  "The Donald" is..  What's sad is that they allow themselves to be.. because Trump puts a voice to their anger and says things in the hateful way they really want to hear and most likely say behind closed doors.   I guess that is what is meant by "taking our country back"...   back to the days when it was OK to be bigoted and sexist.


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## BobF (Aug 22, 2015)

Trump started with a little group of followers.   But each week he is in the mix he gains thousands more.   I don't think these are all of the far right Republican either.   They seem to be of a good mix and likely even have some of the centered Democrats also wanting to see a move from the far far left more to the middle.   As long as Trump keeps gaining followers the remaining candidates need to start observing and seeing what is Trumps magic for gaining more and more followers.   Meanwhile Hillary seems to be losing her grip on the Democrat side.

Who knows how things will end up a year from now.   Nobody that I can think of on this thread or elsewhere.


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## Meanderer (Aug 22, 2015)

In this great Country,If a peanut farmer, an Actor and a Haberdasher could become President, why couldn't a Realtor be President?


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## RadishRose (Aug 22, 2015)

Meanderer said:


> In this great Country,If a peanut farmer, an Actor and a Haberdasher could become President, why couldn't a Realtor be President?



Good point, Jim!


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## QuickSilver (Aug 22, 2015)

It's not the "Realtor" part that bothers people about Trump...  It's TRUMP.


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## Meanderer (Aug 22, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> It's not the "Realtor" part that bothers people about Trump...  It's TRUMP.


Don't kid yourself, the peanut farmer, actor and haberdasher had people bothered by "the man", also.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 22, 2015)

For the record I make no apologies for anything I posted in this thread.  If politics upset you Lara maybe you should avoid posting on the subject.  Here other than calling another member names, we all can post what we think.  The OP can post what they choose but cannot control the replies to it.


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## BobF (Aug 22, 2015)

So true Jim.   But some folks just don't care about others opinions at all and insist that their posts are to be recognized over the others.   Really a small minded set of thinking.   I do reject what some folks post and at times say so.   That I suppose helps to make the scene more balanced than if I, like many have already done, just leave the forum completely after being put down by these few folks that think only their ideas are worth hearing by putting down personally those that disagree.

Personal attacks should not happen on this forum at all.


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## AprilT (Aug 22, 2015)

I'm highly offended, I rather thought I stayed on topic and answered the question and btw, I haven't any party affiliation either.


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## MaryZPA (Aug 22, 2015)

I watched Trump's rally in Alabama last night and was deeply troubled. He whipped up the anti-immigrant fervor of the crowd and it made me worry for any immigrants who found themselves in Mobile last night. This targeting of one group of people has dark echoes of past events in history and it never ends well. There was a time when I thought Trump to be a buffoon, but now I see him as a danger.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 22, 2015)

MaryZPA said:


> I watched Trump's rally in Alabama last night and was deeply troubled. He whipped up the anti-immigrant fervor of the crowd and it made me worry for any immigrants who found themselves in Mobile last night. This targeting of one group of people has dark echoes of past events in history and it never ends well. There was a time when I thought Trump to be a buffoon, but now I see him as a danger.



He is a danger!  If by some bizarre chance he got the repub nomination, I think the voter turnout for Democrats would increase dramatically.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 22, 2015)

MaryZPA said:


> I watched Trump's rally in Alabama last night and was deeply troubled. He whipped up the anti-immigrant fervor of the crowd and it made me worry for any immigrants who found themselves in Mobile last night. This targeting of one group of people has dark echoes of past events in history and it never ends well. There was a time when I thought Trump to be a buffoon, but now I see him as a danger.



Mary you have it right.  Someone said "why not a Realtor" as president.  The answer is, it's not a Realtor we are discussing, it's an individual named Donald Trump.  Why not a Trump?  Does mainstream America really want a person who is exploiting a racial divide for President.  He is playing to the most basic hate groups in the country.  If America ever gets to be the kind of place he would have us be, I would not want to be American.  Luckily when the average, intelligent citizen steps into the polling booth it will not be voting for the likes of that hateful Jerk.


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## Meanderer (Aug 22, 2015)

There is a lot of anti illegal-immigrant fervor in this Country and it doesn't need to be "whipped up".  Imagine, a candidate whipping up fervor at a political rally.  Maybe they all should be declared "dangerous"!


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## AZ Jim (Aug 22, 2015)

Jim, this isn't like you.  Trump is a hate monger.  He is pandering to the most vile of emotions.  No Actor, No peanut farmer ever ran a campaign like this "realtor".


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## WhatInThe (Aug 22, 2015)

I'm stunned in the realtor v peanut farmer back and fourth that it hasn't been brought up that that 'peanut farmer' was a naval officer, had nuclear training/experience with the Navy and a governor. Or that realtor graduated an Ivy League school as did several previous president or famous/infamous professional politicians and made & oversaw several multi million dollar projects.


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## BobF (Aug 22, 2015)

This immigrant problem has been big since way before even Obama.   We have appropriate ways to enter this country but across the Mexican border without permission is not one of those legal ways to do it.   Prior to these run in and hide immigrants we had those annual groups that would come to the US for work in mostly farm work as I remember it.   Then in winter, they would all return to their homes in Mexico.   Then again as hand work became available in the US they would return for another season.   Somewhere along the years it was decided to allow all those here to get permission to stay.   Once that happened it seems to have turned on the sneak from Mexico method of entering into the US.   For far too long that type of entry has been allowed, and even promoted by some politicians as just OK.   No efforts to really change that has been successful but it should.  Allow all that want to enter the US do so but in an organized way, on their way to jobs and homes, not to the welfare types of care. 

I have lived in areas where they have settled in various states across the country.   Most are just wanting to have jobs so they can take care of their families.   The way things are going is they get low paying jobs with no protections.   I am talking of legal protections.   Correcting this mess will fix lots of the US problems and give our immigrants full protection of our country.


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## MaryZPA (Aug 22, 2015)

We have an immigration issue that needs to be addressed and discussed rationally. I'm absolutely certain that the best solution isn't inciting hatred towards immigrants, legal or illegal.


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## WhatInThe (Aug 22, 2015)

BobF said:


> This immigrant problem has been big since way before even Obama.   We have appropriate ways to enter this country but across the Mexican border without permission is not one of those legal ways to do it.   Prior to these run in and hide immigrants we had those annual groups that would come to the US for work in mostly farm work as I remember it.   Then in winter, they would all return to their homes in Mexico.   Then again as hand work became available in the US they would return for another season.   Somewhere along the years it was decided to allow all those here to get permission to stay.   Once that happened it seems to have turned on the sneak from Mexico method of entering into the US.   For far too long that type of entry has been allowed, and even promoted by some politicians as just OK.   No efforts to really change that has been successful but it should.  Allow all that want to enter the US do so but in an organized way, on their way to jobs and homes, not to the welfare types of care.
> 
> I have lived in areas where they have settled in various states across the country.   Most are just wanting to have jobs so they can take care of their families.   The way things are going is they get low paying jobs with no protections.   I am talking of legal protections.   Correcting this mess will fix lots of the US problems and give our immigrants full protection of our country.



Ever notice with all the pro ILLEGAL immigration debates,forums,stories very few if any seem to be pushing to clear the back log or wait time to become a US citizen, or to expedite their deportation hearings so both sides know where they stand legally.

And yes the immigrant problem legal or ILLEGAL HAS been an issue for decades. And it's not just Hispanics. In many cities it has been migrants from the Caribbean Islands or south east Asia. No matter the city or country of origin the problem exists because the laws and processes in place haven't been fully practiced and/or given top priority.

Some people are sheep and will always follow the herd. Some simply wait for the herd to start moving(on an issue). Same for Sanders, in college and union circles what he preaches is king. His crowds show it although it's still a feat if the ground people for Trump and Sanders to get staff to tell friend and family to go and/or bring others. We're not seeing new sediments or desires but the motivation to actually do something about them.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 22, 2015)

http://thinkprogress.org/immigratio...nspired-brothers-beat-up-homeless-latino-man/




> A pair of siblings in Boston, Massachusetts targeted and ambushed a 58-year-old homeless Latino man because one brother was “inspired in part” by 2016 Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, the Boston Globe reported.





> Police arrived on the scene early Wednesday to a homeless man covered in urine, whose nose was broken and chest and arms were battered. The victim told police that “he was awakened by two men urinating on his face.” He said they ripped away his blankets and sleeping bag, hit him in the face and the head, and punched him several times. According to the Boston Globe, several witnesses saw the homeless man being attacked.


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## Shalimar (Aug 22, 2015)

Sadly, I am not surprised. This is how mindless hatred spreads among the emotionally disaffected. The potential for damage is huge. Never underestimate the power of rhetoric. Hitler is the most extreme example of the dangers of unbridled, twisted nationalism. No, I am not equating Mr. Trump with that monster, merely illustrating the dangers of fomenting hatred of minorities etc. "


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## tnthomas (Aug 22, 2015)

BobF said:


> This immigrant problem has been big since way before even Obama.   We have appropriate ways to enter this country but across the Mexican border without permission is not one of those legal ways to do it.   Prior to these run in and hide immigrants we had those annual groups that would come to the US for work in mostly farm work as I remember it.   Then in winter, they would all return to their homes in Mexico.   Then again as hand work became available in the US they would return for another season.



I remember this, it was called the Bracero Program:



> The program was voted out of existence by Congress in 1964, under mounting criticism for exploiting Mexican workers and depriving American workers of jobs. One of the factors spurring action by Congress was a September 1963 bus accident near Chualar in the Salinas Valley, killing 32 people, mostly braceros, and injuring 25. It was the worst road accident in U.S. history. The bus was an illegally converted flatbed truck, which was typical of the unsafe conditions braceros had to endure.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program

Immigration reform is desperately needed, no need to make millions of people criminals, the jails are already past design capacity...

Anybody here like what Hitler did to the Jews and eastern Europeans?    Rounding up millions of illegal immigrants and sending them back would require the same type of logistics.     

Anybody advocating the roundup and deportation of millions of people is just not playing with a full deck, and simply has more HOT air than solutions.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 22, 2015)

> Anybody advocating the roundup and deportation of millions of people is just not playing with a full deck, and simply has more HOT air than solutions.



Can you imagine what that would look like..  Thousands of freight trains with cattle cars filled with people.. ... hmmmm... where have we seen that before?


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## AZ Jim (Aug 22, 2015)

I haven't read the article yet( in fact I've not opened the magazine yet) but TIME came today.  On the front the face of Donald Trump and the caption "Deal with it".  I am hopeful that we will.


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## Ruthanne (Aug 22, 2015)

Sorry I can't watch the interviews you have posted, I've had enough of him.


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## WhatInThe (Aug 22, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> http://thinkprogress.org/immigratio...nspired-brothers-beat-up-homeless-latino-man/



I doubt that Trump really 'inspired'  these two. One of them is a known & documented/arrested racist dating back to 2001 after beating up a Morrocan coffee shop worker after 9-11. These losers thought they could curry favor by invoking a popular person. If Elvis was in the news they probably would've used his name. Trump also cameout against the attacks.


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## BobF (Aug 22, 2015)

Glad to hear people are tired of this Trump stuff.   It is about time to let the hopefuls do their thing and wait till the actual candidates become known.    Likely next spring will be soon enough for all this hateful nonsense to get started.   Really wasting your hate this early in the game.   Most will be gone as the clock clicks on.   

No assurance that your favorite target will be around by next spring.   

No assurance that you favorite candidate will be around by spring either.


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## MaryZPA (Aug 22, 2015)

I think Trump is dangerous and I highly recommend Matt Taibbi's piece in Rolling Stone: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/donald-trump-just-stopped-being-funny-20150821


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## BobF (Aug 22, 2015)

http://thinkprogress.org/immigratio...nspired-brothers-beat-up-homeless-latino-man/

Donald J. Trump      *✔*     @realDonaldTrump                 Boston incident is terrible. We need energy and passion, but we must treat each other with respect. I would never condone violence.
                         9:35 AM - 21 Aug 2015
...................................................

How many have taken the time to read this foot note that the authors of the article about two criminal type brothers abusing a homeless person.   This does not sound like some of the accusations already posted about Trump.   It shows a fair posting by the editors of the article.   Far too much hate is being wasted on Trump.   Trump should be admired for his ability to build such a fortune and not hated for being so good in business.   Wait till spring to see if you still hate who is in the running.


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## Lon (Aug 22, 2015)

I like Trumps Five Part Strategy. Other than the fact that libs don't like Trump, what specifically do libs dislike about any one of the Five and what would you propose as an alternative to any one of them.?


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## MaryZPA (Aug 22, 2015)

Trump's strategy seems like nothing new to me. It's what wealthy Republicans always suggest. It's trickle down economics revisited and we know that not much trickles down when those principles are employed.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 22, 2015)

Lon said:


> I like Trumps Five Part Strategy. Other than the fact that libs don't like Trump, what specifically do libs dislike about any one of the Five and what would you propose as an alternative to any one of them.?



I won't play your game.  As Time magazine says "There are some things you just cannot do in politics, not at the presidential level anyway."  Trump has over simplified all of his "proposals".  I will not take the time to destroy all of his propositions but to take one as an example:  He will "change the law" to eliminate birthright provisions of the constitution.  To change the constitution requires this:

Article V of the Constitution outlines how to amend (modify) the document. It consists of two steps: proposal and ratification.

* 1. Propose An Amendment*
Either Congress or the States can propose an amendment ot the Constitution.

  Both Houses of Congress must propose the amendment with a two-thirds  vote. This is how all current amendments have been offered. 
 Two-thirds of the State legislatures must call on Congress to hold a Constitutional Convention. 
 *2. Ratify An Admendment*
Regardless of how the amendment is proposed, it must be ratified by the States.

 Three-fourths of the State legislatures must approve of the amendment proposed by Congress, or 
 Three-fourths of the states must approve the amendment via ratifying conventions. This method has only been used once, to repeal Prohibition (21st Amendment). 
Is there a timeline for ratification? The US Supreme Court has held that ratification must happen within "some reasonable time after the proposal." Since the 18th Amendment, Congress has set a term of seven years for ratification.

Only  33 amendments have received a two-thirds vote from both Houses of  Congress. Of those, only 27 have been ratified by the States. Perhaps  the most visible failure is the Equal Rights Amendment.


Article V

  The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it  necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the  Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States,  shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case,  shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this  Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the  several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one  or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;  Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One  thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first  and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that  no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate. 

BTW you suggest, rightly, that "libs" don't like Trump, but wait and see how many republicans will actually support him as a candidate.  It may just surprise you.


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## BobF (Aug 22, 2015)

Something for all of us to realize and recognize is the difference between true immigrants and the illegal immigrants that are now living here without paying their share of taxes to the governments, states an federal, for help with health, protections, schools, etc.

The issues are not about the existence of these legal or illegal immigrants at all.   It is about stopping all the entrance by illegals.   Recently hundreds of children of various ages were delivered into the US and today I hear that a judge has determined that they are not being fairly kept.    There is some law that says children must be kept in certain facilities.   It would have been nice if we had been told of these hundreds of children would be coming, like it or not.   The come from places other than just Mexico.  Places like Central America and South America.   

We do have a border and we should have some means for closing it officially and actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States

Currently over 12 million now living in the US.   More coming every day.


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## Bullie76 (Aug 22, 2015)

Unless the democrats totally botch it(as in committing a murder), I see no chance for a republican to win this time around or any other time in my remaining life. With the minorities now becoming the majority and the hardcore liberal vote, the numbers just do not add up for the republicans. Doesn't matter who they nominate.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 22, 2015)

Bullie76 said:


> Unless the democrats totally botch it(as in committing a murder), I see no chance for a republican to win this time around or any other time in my remaining life. With the minorities now becoming the majority and the hardcore liberal vote, the numbers just do not add up for the republicans. Doesn't matter who they nominate.



Never underestimate two things, the naivety of the electorate and the money going into the republican coffers.


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## Lara (Aug 22, 2015)

Meanderer said:


> Trump's 5 Part Strategy
> 
> In #1 Foreign Interventions Must Require Cost-Sharing Plans to Reduce U.S. Costs and Guarantee Veterans and Their Families Are Protected) I liked "Money, itself is a weapon".
> 
> I also liked #3: Crack Down on China’s Currency Manipulation by Calculating Taxes on Imports Based on How Much a Manufacturing Country’s Currency is Undervalued.



Trump's 5-Part Strategy is impressive enough to post in full here (below). He's the only Presidential Candidate this early on to present a clear plan for Making America Great.

But I wonder if #2, Pass NOPEC Legislation to Break OPEC's Grip on Energy Prices, would really cause retaliation from the middle east like the plan said was why Bush vetoed it..

Here, then, are just five of Donald Trump’s solutions for turning the nation around.
*    1. Foreign Interventions Must Require Cost-Sharing Plans to Reduce U.S. Costs and Guarantee Veterans and Their Families Are Protected*
“Money is itself a weapon,” writes Trump.
Before America spends trillions of dollars fighting other nations’ battles, Trump says the U.S. should implement cost-sharing agreements similar to the one advocated in a September 2010 Government Accountability Office (GAO) study to reduce the cost burden on U.S. taxpayers and provide funds for the families of fallen or wounded soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines.
“It’s hardly a radical idea,” writes Trump. “In September 2010, our own GAO and others studied the issue in depth and concluded that a cost-sharing plan is feasible and wise. The report, titled “U.S. Cost-Sharing: Iraq Has a Cumulative Budget Surplus, Offering the Potential for Further Cost-Sharing” noted that the Iraqi government is running a $52.1 billion surplus.  As Trump notes, director of the Defense Department’s Office of Net assessment Andrew Marshall, pointed out that oil revenues could also be used to offset the sticker price for U.S. intervention.
“Why are we footing the bill and getting nothing in return?” writes Trump. “I’ll give you the answer. It’s because our so-called ‘leaders’ in Washington know absolutely nothing about negotiations and dealmaking.”
*    2. Pass NOPEC Legislation to Break OPEC’s Grip on Energy Prices*
In _Time to Get Tough_, Trump advocated passage of the “No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels Act (NOPEC—S.394) which would amend the Sherman Antitrust Act to allow the U.S. government to sue OPEC for violating antitrust laws.
Trump notes the bill passed the Senate Judiciary Committee four times with bipartisan backing, “and in May 2008, the NOPEC bill passed the House” before “President George W. Bush got spooked and threatened to veto the bill” over fears of “retaliatory action” with wars raging in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Passing NOPEC, wrote Trump, would have allowed the U.S. to bust up the OPEC cartel.
“Imagine how much money the average American would save if we busted the OPEC cartel. Imagine how much stronger economic shape we would be in if we made the Iraqi government agree to a cost-sharing plan that paid us back the $1.5 trillion we’ve dropped on liberating Iraq.”
Trump added, “Just those two acts of leadership alone would represent a huge leap forward for our country.”
*    3. Crack Down on China’s Currency Manipulation by Calculating Taxes on Imports Based on How Much a Manufacturing Country’s Currency is Undervalued*
Trump says he believes passionately in free trade, but only when the rules are fair and currency is properly valued. He cites a study by the Peterson Institute for International Economics that finds that even a 20 percent revaulation of Chinese currency would create 300,000 to 700,000 American jobs.
“Getting China to stop playing its currency charades can begin whenever we elect a president ready to take decisive action,” writes Trump. “[Obama] could start by signing into law a bill the U.S. House of Representatives approved on a 348 to 79 vote in September 2010. It would allow our government to calculate taxes on imports based on how much the manufacturing country’s currency is undervalued.”
Trump notes Obama’s then-Treasury Sec. Timothy Geithner warned such a move might spark a “trade war.”
“It’s the utter weakness and failure to fight for American interests from Geithner and Obama that have left us underwriting China’s economic rise and our own economic collapse,” writes Trump. “It’s a plain fact: free trade requires having fair rules that apply to everyone.”
*    4. Spur Job and Wealth Creation through a 5-Point Tax Plan*
“People are smart,” writes Trump. “They know you can’t be ‘for’ jobs and against those who create them.”
That, says Trump, is why America’s president should advocate for and win a five-point tax plan to spark economic growth and allow Americans to keep more of what they earn.
First, Trump says the U.S. must repeal the death tax. He cites a CBO study that found the death tax is a proven jobs killer that “will strip $1.6 trillion of small business capital out of the hands of job creators” and will result in a loss of 1.5 million new jobs.
Second, Trump says smart tax policy includes lowering the tax rate on capital gains and dividends. “Capitalism requires capital,” writes Trump. “When government robs capital from investors, it takes away the money that creates jobs.”
Third, Trump would reduce the corporate tax rate to zero. “How can we expect companies to hire American workers and locate their businesses in America when our government taxes them at exorbitant rates for doing so?” writes Trump. “I want to encourage American companies to stay here and hire American workers, and I want foreign companies to relocate their businesses to the United States and create jobs here.”
Fourth, Trump says he would impose a 20 percent tax on those who outsource jobs overseas. Trump says “for those companies who made the mistake of sending their businesses overseas but have seen the light and are ready to come home and bring jobs with them, they pay zero tax.”
Finally, Trump says its time to implement a fairer and simpler income tax:


Up to $30,000, you pay 1 percent
From $30,000 to $100,000, you pay 5 percent
From $100,000 to $1 million, you pay 10 percent
On $1 million or above, your rate is 15 percent
*5. Finish the Border Fence, Boot Out Criminal Illegals, and Reform America’s Legal Immigration System*
Trump cites a 2011 GAO study that found America’s prisons house 351,000 criminal aliens who committed crimes after illegally entering America. “The GAO says that the annual price tag to incarcerate these thugs is $1.1 billion. And get this: criminal aliens have an average of seven arrests.” He says criminal illegal aliens must go.
In addition to specific reforms for America’s legal immigration system, Trump says the Commander-in-Chief must enforce existing immigration laws and finish the border fence.
Citing several studies, Trump says “properly built walls work. We just need the political will to finish the job.”
Trump’s _Time to Get Tough_ lays out several more detailed conservative policy reforms, including cracking down on entitlement fraud, ending Obamacare, and reforming America’s ever-growing welfare state. As he puts it, America needs “a safety net, not a hammock.”
Put simply, GOP establishment figures eager to dismiss Trump’s candidacy do so at their peril. Like it or not, Donald Trump has serious policy plans to offer—and the star power and savvy to make them heard.


----------



## Meanderer (Aug 22, 2015)

*What Do Donald Trump Voters Actually Want?*

30 of the billionaire real-estate developer’s backers offer individual explanations for their support.

"Last week, I asked Donald Trump supporters why they believe that the billionaire real-estate developer will treat them any better than the career politicians they mistrust".

"The dozens of replies that I received from across the United States make up the largest collection I’ve encountered of Trump supporters setting forth their thinking in their own words. And having read through this non-representative sample, I understand the candidate’s rise better than I did before. Broadly speaking, the men and women who wrote fall into two categories: Those who earnestly believe that Trump is the best choice to lead America and those who are motivated by giddyness at the chaotic spectacle of his success. Of course, anyone polling at the top of a major party is going to have supporters with all sorts of backgrounds and world views, and while the correspondence below includes several recurring themes, many of the rationales are singular".


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## AZ Jim (Aug 22, 2015)

Lara, Do you not see those are oversimplified, unrealistic pipe dreams?  Not one of those are realistic.  They may appeal to those unfamiliar with what the proposals entail but not anyone aware of the details.  It is like saying I propose we find a cure for cancer, a great goal, but not possible for a president to achieve.


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## MaryZPA (Aug 22, 2015)

_That's_ Trump's 's 5-Part Strategy? It's simplistic, unrealistic, and about an inch deep. It makes for some good catch phrases, but it's about as far from 'impressive' as it can be.


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## BobF (Aug 22, 2015)

Are we to keep those 351,000 illegal immigrants for long times?    I would hope not.   They should be sent back to their natural home with agreements to keep them there.    That would free up some of our prison space for our own criminals so we don't have to set our own criminals free for lack of space.   Of course we also need to fix our fences and convince some of our government agencies to do their jobs and not provide places for these illegal criminals to hide.   Places like those sanctuary cities that have been created where cities refuse to do as our border patrols have asked them to do.   What a bunch of nonsense that is.


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## tnthomas (Aug 22, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Lara, Do you not see those are oversimplified, unrealistic pipe dreams?  Not one of those are realistic.  They may appeal to those unfamiliar with what the proposals entail but not anyone aware of the details.  It is like saying I propose we find a cure for cancer, a great goal, but not possible for a president to achieve.



Thank you for laying it out in simple terms.


----------



## Butterfly (Aug 22, 2015)

MaryZPA said:


> I watched Trump's rally in Alabama last night and was deeply troubled. He whipped up the anti-immigrant fervor of the crowd and it made me worry for any immigrants who found themselves in Mobile last night. This targeting of one group of people has dark echoes of past events in history and it never ends well. There was a time when I thought Trump to be a buffoon, but now I see him as a danger.



Agree -- and I'd felt those dark echoes, too.  They are definitely there.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 22, 2015)

I never cared for Trump even before he was running for president, and honestly, I didn't watch those videos, I hear and see enough of him on the news channels.  I have to give him credit though, for being the ultimate entertainer and stealing the spotlight from the other candidates, something he does very well.  In the process, they all appear to be weakened in his shadow, but like Bob said, it's too early to take any of these "promises" or spoken dreams too seriously.

As far as cost sharing for foreign interventions and guaranteeing that our veterans and their families are taken care of...how about not putting our troops in danger in the first place with these senseless invasions and wars?  With the oil, even if we are energy independent, won't we always be importing oil from the Middle East because it's cheaper, and aren't these recent wars/invasions really all about oil control, money and power?

The crackdown on China's import likely wouldn't fly anyway, because big retailers like Walmart would put pressure on politicians to back off so they can keep their prices down.  To me, Trump's tax plan just sounds like tax cuts again for the wealthy and large corporations...don't think that works very well at all.  His plan to finish the border fence and make it impenetrable, get rid of all criminal immigrants is easy as going door to door and searching for them? Last I heard there are a lot more native born criminals than illegal criminals...just not making the big headlines as much.  Isn't he also against our constitution in regard to having people born here automatically become US citizens?

Also, Obamacare is a success and has benefited may people, including myself, and I'm healthy and rarely see a doctor.  Those with pre-existing conditions really are happy with the Affordable Care Act, and so are others who can rest assured they won't be booted off their plan for no valid reason like it was in the past.  Why would Trump want to eliminate that?  If he planned to replace it with Single Payer, then I would be more interested in what he had to say.  I haven't been paying too much attention really to all he's been saying, too early to take him seriously just because he's the loudest.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding some of his intentions, if he's still around in the future and has all the dramatics out of his system, I'll be more willing to listen to his promises.


----------



## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> I never cared for Trump even before he was running for president, and honestly, I didn't watch those videos, I hear and see enough of him on the news channels.  I have to give him credit though, for being the ultimate entertainer and stealing the spotlight from the other candidates, something he does very well.  In the process, they all appear to be weakened in his shadow, but like Bob said, it's too early to take any of these "promises" or spoken dreams too seriously.


I've never liked Trump's flamboyant display, ostentatiousness, egotism, and goofy expressions at the podium (not presidential) …but I like his confidence, motivation, strength, knows how to negotiate, is a workhorse, understands management, is intelligent, exuberant, successful, powerful, and doesn't want to burden the people with his expenses (thus paying for his own campaign). He's no mamby-pamby and the people are ready for results…not just promises. He as set goals coupled with a plan of action dispute the fact that it needs tweaking. 

But the other good candidates are watching, waiting, soaking all this in, learning what Trump's weaknesses are, and doing some planning themselves. They will have their time to shine and will be ready to offset Trump's hiccups. So anything is possible right now. Trump's demise might well be his overexposure too soon. Watch out for Marco Rubio. He said, "I'm right where I want to be for now". He knows. The media is seeing to it that Trump is overexposed now until everyone gets tired of him and then when they think the public has been sufficiently over saturated and over stimulated, later, they'll give the spotlight to Rubio, Carson, and Fiorina…when it matters most. 



			
				Sea Breeze said:
			
		

> As far as cost sharing for foreign interventions and guaranteeing that our veterans and their families are taken care of...how about not putting our troops in danger in the first place with these senseless invasions and wars? With the oil, even if we are energy independent, won't we always be importing oil from the Middle East because it's cheaper, and aren't these recent wars/invasions really all about oil control, money and power?


 We have enough oil in our own country to never need the Middle East but the rules need to be lifted here in order to tap into it. There will always be wars as long as we have the likes of Isis, 9/11, WMD, etc….threats to our national security and freedom.



			
				Sea Breeze said:
			
		

> Isn't he also against our constitution in regard to having people born here automatically become US citizens?


Trump isn't against our constitution but I wouldn't put it past him to try to change it, as difficult as that would be. Isn't a child illegal if born of an illegal immigrant? I know many come over the border, use our doctors to deliver their babies at no expense to them, and then return to mexico on their own.


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## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

Meanderer said:


> In this great Country,If a peanut farmer, an Actor and a Haberdasher could become President, why couldn't a Realtor be President?


Don't forget a "Community Organizer" (and an illinois senator briefly. During the whole campaign, Obama gave No interviews and read all speeches from a teleprompter). But his people ran a highly organized, hi-tech, campaign for him with internet, canvassing door-to-door on college campuses, a great "Change" slogan/branding, etc.


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## mitchezz (Aug 23, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Can't speak for other countries, but here in Canada Trump's name invariably inspires ridicule. People are aghast that the most
> powerful country in the world would even consider someone of his ilk. It makes America a laughing stock globally according to many.



It's the same in Australia Shalimar. He mainly makes the news when he makes a misogynist or racist comment otherwise he's off the radar.....seen mainly as a TV personality.


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2015)

That is interesting Mitchezz.


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## Meanderer (Aug 23, 2015)

Lara said:


> Don't forget a "Community Organizer" (and an illinois senator briefly. During the whole campaign, Obama gave No interviews and read all speeches from a teleprompter). But his people ran a highly organized, hi-tech, campaign for him with internet, canvassing door-to-door on college campuses, a great "Change" slogan/branding, etc.


In the list of why people support Donald Trump, I like #14 Trump is Bizarro Obama
He's got what obama had in 2007 except he doesn't have the press adoring him and hiding what should have been disqualifiers. Trump is refreshingly blunt, honest, and pro American. He's the anti-Obama. People like that. The press doesn't.


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## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

Those are 30 excellent reasons why people like Trump, meanderer. The press has a strategy; overexpose Trump, over stimulate the viewers until his supporters are sufficiently over saturated with him. Then, later in the campaign, when it really matters most, they'll turn the spotlight over to Rubio, Carson, and Fiorina who, by that time, will have tweaked their campaigns after soaking in what worked for Trump and what didn't. Rubio said, "I'm right where I want to be right now". He knows. That's a smart strategy.


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 23, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> Agree -- and I'd felt those dark echoes, too.  They are definitely there.



Forget Nazi Germany...


----------



## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

Just watched *Face the Nation *with Trump, Chris Christie, and Ted Cruz. 

*Trump* spoke of the middle-class disappearing while the Hedge Funds managers are paying lower tax rates. Trump wants to lower  rates for the middle-class and will focus on saving the middle-class (show didn't give him much time to give details). He also clarified how he would use management to solve immigration and said it takes a lot less money to do this than what it's costing our country to accommodate them. 

*Chris Christie *spent most all of his time crucifying Hillary and talking about his accomplishments and talents. Said nothing about Trump other than he would take a slower, methodical, and more conservative approach to solving immigration.

*Ted Cruz* spoke mostly about immigration which mirrored Trump's pretty much (they're in agreement) but added a way to patrol the borders (can't remember what it was, drones maybe? but that's already being done). Then spoke of why he's against same sex marriage. He gave an example of a church that ended up closed due to the cost of fighting for their right not to marry gays due to their religious faith and that they shouldn't have been persecuted because of religious liberty. 

*On a personal note:* I am a Bible believer but I am for gay marriage because it's between the couple and God…we aren't to judge whether their sin is greater than our own sins we all do everyday when faced with choices by the minute…but at the same time it's the religious right of the church to choose not to perform it. The couple can go elsewhere to get married. So, no big deal.

*Face the Nation Panel* said Trump is not going to self destruct like originally thought and for the first time they're seeing that he could win the nomination (said by the Washington Post representative).


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 23, 2015)

Yes... and I'm hoping he wins!!


----------



## BobF (Aug 23, 2015)

If so Trump may win and then eliminate many of the Obama mistakes.

Is Hillary going to continue?    Big question right now and we have more folks looking at running for the Democrat ticket.


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## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

Yes Bob, here's the latest for the Democrats:

*Declared*
Lincoln Chafee
Hillary Clinton
Martin O'Malley
Bernie Sanders
Jim Webb

*Possible*
Joe Biden
Andrew Cuomo
Al Gore
Dennis Kucinich
Brian Schweitzer

*Declined to run*
Elizabeth Warren


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 23, 2015)

Lara said:


> We have enough oil in our own country to never need the Middle East but the rules need to be lifted here in order to tap into it. There will always be wars as long as we have the likes of Isis, 9/11, WMD, etc….threats to our national security and freedom.



Aren't we actually exporting oil to other countries?  I don't think that being self sufficient in that area will stop the war hawks from wanting to dominate and control oil supplies in other countries.  As far as Isis, G.W. Bush appeared to help them develop.  As far as 9/11 and "weapons of mass destruction", those were selling points for the senseless invasion of Iraq by G. W. Bush.

More here.




> "You stated that ISIS was created because we don't have enough presence and we've been pulling out of the Middle East," she said. "However, the threat of ISIS was created by the Iraqi coalition authority, which ousted the entire government of Iraq.
> 
> It was when 30,000 individuals who are part of the Iraqi military were forced out. They had no employment, they had no income, yet they were left with access to all the same arms and weapons."





> Ziedrich's rebuttal to Bush came at a moment when the likely candidate was already facing questions over an earlier statement that appeared to suggest he supported the invasion of Iraq. (Bush walked back those comments Thursday, saying that "knowing what we know now," he would not have invaded the country.)
> 
> And while Bush might not like to admit it, the truth is that Ziedrich's comments capture a point that has long been emphasized by Middle East watchers -- namely, that the Bush administration's mismanagement of Iraq encouraged thousands of skilled Iraqis to take their expertise to the anti-American insurgency that eventually became the Islamic State.
> 
> ...





Behind the Iraq Invasion:

https://www.seniorforums.com/showthread.php/14693-Review-of-the-Iraq-Invasion?highlight=9/11+attack


----------



## Lon (Aug 23, 2015)

Changing the Constitution----------Not improbable at all if American sentiment supports the idea.

REMEMBER PROHIBITION?


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 23, 2015)

I have grown weary of trying to point out what should be obvious to anyone not blinded the shiny moving object and the calm voice saying "you are relaxed, you can barely hold your eyes open, you are going to sleep."  Accordingly, I am outta this Trump ego pumping thread.


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## BobF (Aug 23, 2015)

Jim, have a good day.


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## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

Lon said:


> Changing the Constitution----------Not improbable at all if American sentiment supports the idea.
> 
> REMEMBER PROHIBITION?


That's true, Lon. All Congress has to do is pass a law to clarify the 14th Amendment ending birthright citizenship.

Should be easier to pass now that the 2014 elections gave the Republicans control of the Senate (and control of both houses of Congress). That's 247 seats in the House of Representatives and 54 seats in the Senate…the largest Republican majority since 1929.


----------



## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

Lara said:
			
		

> We have enough oil in our own country to never need the Middle East but the rules need to be lifted here in order to tap into it. There will always be wars as long as we have the likes of Isis, 9/11, WMD, etc….threats to our national security and freedom.



*Sea Breeze*, the reason I mentioned 9/11 and WMD threats is because those will always start wars to protect our national security (9/11 is what made Bush decide to look for WMDs). Yes, Bush's search for WMDs was a mistaken reason since none were found, but there are still looming threats. Take North Korea, huge reason to suck us into war when that gets out of hand or when they are pointed at us.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 23, 2015)

> That's true, Lon. All Congress has to do is pass a law to clarify the 14th Amendment ending birthright citizenship.





> Should be easier to pass now that the 2014 elections gave the Republicans control of the Senate (and control of both houses of Congress). That's 247 seats in the House of Representatives and 54 seats in the Senate…the largest Republican majority since 1929.




Is there anyone here who has NOT benefited from birthright citizenship?   If your parents or grand parents immigrated here from another country.. YOU are a citizen NOW because of birthright citizenship..   Or maybe we should just say.. if your parents came from an "approved" country  ( hint hint wink wink) white European  THEN birthright citizenship should be allowed... If Brown or Black??   well..  not so much.

oh.. and Lara...  forgetting about the filibuster and a 60 vote majority needed to pass anything?   I believe it was YOUR party that took full advantage of that when they were in the minority..  DON'T you think we will??   It will NEVER pass into law..

In addition LARA....  Here is how the constitution is amended..

*1. Propose An Amendment
Either Congress or the States can propose an amendment ot the Constitution.


Both Houses of Congress must propose the amendment with a two-thirds vote. This is how all current amendments have been offered.
Two-thirds of the State legislatures must call on Congress to hold a Constitutional Convention.

2. Ratify An Admendment
Regardless of how the amendment is proposed, it must be ratified by the States.


Three-fourths of the State legislatures must approve of the amendment proposed by Congress, or
Three-fourths of the states must approve the amendment via ratifying conventions. This method has only been used once, to repeal Prohibition (21st Amendment).

2/3rds of the Senate is 66 votes by my count...  what is it to you?   Good luck getting anything passed with your "largest majority sinse 1929"  

It will NEVER happen.



*


----------



## MaryZPA (Aug 23, 2015)

And to hell with "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free?" What a sad turn of events for a country that was built by immigrants.


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 23, 2015)

MaryZPA said:


> And to hell with "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free?" What a sad turn of events for a country that was built by immigrants.



No it's more like... we got ours... now everyone else go to hell...


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 23, 2015)

Lon said:


> Changing the Constitution----------Not improbable at all if American sentiment supports the idea.
> 
> REMEMBER PROHIBITION?



This is the problem with the Right Wing Echo Chamber..   They spend all their time talking to each other and have themselves convinced that ALL Americans feel the way they do..  It's simply not true Lon..   All Americans don't support the Far Right agenda..  America is center left when people are actually given choices that they see benefits them.  Yet FOX and the Right Wing media convinces people like you... with their constant chatter and skewed polls that you are in the majority.. and you believe it.


----------



## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

MaryZPA said:


> And to hell with "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free?" What a sad turn of events for a country that was built by immigrants.


*Mary and Quick Silver*….the issue is not about immigrants. This is about illegal immigrants.

…and *Quick Silver*, Lon said IF Americans support the idea….and he did not say ALL Americans, he said "it's not improbable at all"


----------



## QuickSilver (Aug 23, 2015)

Lara said:


> *Mary and Quick Silver*….the issue is not about immigrants. This is about illegal immigrants.
> 
> …and *Quick Silver*, Lon said IF Americans support the idea….and he did not say ALL Americans, he said "it's not improbable at all"



*Lara...  *in this situation... IF means slime to NONE...  

Also..  my grandparents immigrated from Germany in the early 1900's and had no special papers..  Just the cost of passage on a steam ship..   All of us are probably illegal by today's standards.


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## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> ...my grandparents immigrated from Germany in the early 1900's and had no special papers..  Just the cost of passage on a steam ship..   All of us are probably illegal by today's standards.


True….but that was the early 1900's. It's now the 21st century. We weren't 20 Trillion dollars in debt in 1900 with an explosion in population and a draining on our resources of doctors and teachers, etc. I lived in California in 1985 and sent my daughter to the public school. The Mexican children were darling and the parents were hard workers and kind people. But the school room was divided with half illegals who couldn't speak any English and the other half were legal citizens who could speak English. 

The teacher spent so much time trying to communicate with the illegals (not just language but explaining everything like cultural differences) that the whole class was slow. There weren't enough state resources to hire translators for every class. I had to pull her out and send her to a private school in order to learn at the rate Americans were learning. Not all Americans could afford private schooling there.


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## BobF (Aug 23, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> This is the problem with the Right Wing Echo Chamber..   They spend all their time talking to each other and have themselves convinced that ALL Americans feel the way they do..  It's simply not true Lon..   All Americans don't support the Far Right agenda..  America is center left when people are actually given choices that they see benefits them.  Yet FOX and the Right Wing media convinces people like you... with their constant chatter and skewed polls that you are in the majority.. and you believe it.



Not all of the US is far right nor is it center left.   It is made of several mind sets and there are the centered rights as well.   As things are going I think the centered left and centered right should take over and try to end this far left way of running our government.   We have had many years of success with the states running things to benefit their people.   We need to get back into that situation again.  With what has happened in the last fifty years our federal government has been picking away at states rights and responsibilities and have turned the US into a financial disaster and it gets worse with each year.

Nothing wrong with FOX NEWS and most US media is left, not right.   Polls are not skewed at all.   They just don't come out the way you wish.   Don't trust any poll that only ends up with one side or the other always on top.   They just can't be trusted.    For now the elections are over a year away and till then, all is just wishful thinking and nothing more.


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## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

I had to correct 20 million to 20 trillion dollars…I'm just not used to typing that. I'd laugh if it wasn't so scary.


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## Lon (Aug 23, 2015)

Once Dem senators get pressured by their constituency they will fall into line and join the Repubs on amending.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 23, 2015)

Suurrrrrreeee  they will...  What they will hear from their constituency is opposition to it..  I know mine will..


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## AZ Jim (Aug 23, 2015)

Lon said:


> Once Dem senators get pressured by their constituency they will fall into line and join the Repubs on amending.



Oh yeah...that's sure to work.  *eyes roll*


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## QuickSilver (Aug 23, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Oh yeah...that's sure to work.  *eyes roll*



I told you... they really and truly believe that the majority of Americans agree with them..


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## MaryZPA (Aug 23, 2015)

Part of the majesty of the Constitution is that it protects us from blowhards like Donald Trump. Its amendments have traditionally extended rights, not denied them, and I would work hard to be sure that remains the case.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 23, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I told you... they really and truly believe that the majority of Americans agree with them..



Why not?  I still believe in the Easter Bunny!  Don't you???layful:


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## BobF (Aug 23, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> *Lara...  *in this situation... IF means slime to NONE...
> 
> Also..  my grandparents immigrated from Germany in the early 1900's and had no special papers..  Just the cost of passage on a steam ship..   All of us are probably illegal by today's standards.



Not at all as my grandfather also came here from Germany, and with his two brothers, they did come in the accepted way and not by hiding in trucks or crawling under the border fences and then sneaking into areas where they could find jobs.   That is what is supposed to happen today as well.   Come in, be recognized, and pay your state and federal taxes when you do find a job.   These illegal immigrants are taking all they can, schools, free medical, drive around, and pay no taxes or fees that support these items they use.


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## MaryZPA (Aug 23, 2015)

It's just not true that undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes! It's another part of the myth perpetrated by Trump, but it's just not true. Please take a look at http://www.marketwatch.com/story/un...lions-in-taxes-in-2012-report-says-2015-04-21


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## Jackie22 (Aug 23, 2015)

MaryZPA said:


> It's just not true that undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes! It's another part of the myth perpetrated by Trump, but it's just not true. Please take a look at http://www.marketwatch.com/story/un...lions-in-taxes-in-2012-report-says-2015-04-21



Yes, that is true, Mary.

Here is what Paul Krugman had to say about Trump and the other Republican candidates....

[h=1]Paul Krugman: From Trump on Down, the Republicans Can’t Be Serious[/h]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/07/o...own-the-republicans-cant-be-serious.html?_r=0 

From Trump on Down, the Republicans Can’t Be Serious 
AUG. 7, 2015 
Paul Krugman 

snip// 

The point is that *while media puff pieces have portrayed Mr. Trump’s rivals as serious men — Jeb the moderate, Rand the original thinker, Marco the face of a new generation — their supposed seriousness is all surface. Judge them by positions as opposed to image, and what you have is a lineup of cranks. And as I said, this is no accident.* 

It has long been obvious that the conventions of political reporting and political commentary make it almost impossible to say the obvious — namely, that *one of our two major parties has gone off the deep end. Or as the political analysts Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein put it in their book “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks,” the G.O.P. has become an “insurgent outlier … unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence, and science.” It’s a party that has no room for rational positions on many major issues.* 

Or to put it another way, modern Republican politicians can’t be serious — not if they want to win primaries and have any future within the party. *Crank economics, crank science, crank foreign policy are all necessary parts of a candidate’s resume.* 

Until now, however, leading Republicans have generally tried to preserve a facade of respectability, helping the news media to maintain the pretense that it was dealing with a normal political party. What distinguishes Mr. Trump is not so much his positions as it is his lack of interest in maintaining appearances. And it turns out that the party’s base, which demands extremist positions, also prefers those positions delivered straight. Why is anyone surprised? 

Remember how Mr. Trump was supposed to implode after his attack on John McCain? Mr. McCain epitomizes the strategy of sounding moderate while taking extreme positions, and is much loved by the press corps, which puts him on TV all the time. But Republican voters, it turns out, couldn’t care less about him. 

Can Mr. Trump actually win the nomination? I have no idea. But even if he is eventually pushed aside,* pay no attention to all the analyses you will read declaring a return to normal politics. That’s not going to happen; normal politics left the G.O.P. a long time ago. At most, we’ll see a return to normal hypocrisy, the kind that cloaks radical policies and contempt for evidence in conventional-sounding rhetoric. And that won’t be an improvement.*


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2015)

This is so sad. I don't understand how this came to pass in a powerful first world country. What is happening to democracy?


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## QuickSilver (Aug 23, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> This is so sad. I don't understand how this came to pass in a powerful first world country. What is happening to democracy?



What has happened is unfettered Capitalism... and the Citizen's United ruling that has allowed unlimited money to buy politicians and influence election outcomes with carpet bombing of negative ads against any politician that doesn't agree to do their bidding.


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2015)

Thanks QS. This begs the question, how can/will this situation be rectified, and if not, what is the projected scenario? As an outsider the outcome appears bleak, but perhaps my perspective is skewed by my environment.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 23, 2015)

From what I understand, overturning the Supreme Court's Citizens United ruling would require a Constitutional amendment stating that Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech.   If this continues.. there will either have to be a grass roots rebellion at the ballot box an actual revolution... which would be hard to imagine..   Our democracy will disappear and all the power will be shunted firmly at the top.   A handful of billionaires will control the country.


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## Shalimar (Aug 23, 2015)

A new thought just occurred. Americans are a revolutionary people, with a history of rising up against tyranny when all else fails. Should the extreme political agenda, with or without the policies of Mr. Trump and like thinkers prevail, and the slippery slope gain traction, how long before there is a reaction from "sane America?" The American Dream is on life support!


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## BobF (Aug 23, 2015)

MaryZPA said:


> It's just not true that undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes! It's another part of the myth perpetrated by Trump, but it's just not true. Please take a look at http://www.marketwatch.com/story/un...lions-in-taxes-in-2012-report-says-2015-04-21



What this article does not say are comments that have been posted about some illegal immigrants ways of working for no taxes.   False names, false findings posted in employers tax takeout forms.   Young man with 11 children.  Disappearing and moving to a different job next spring.   I don't remember when or where these reports were run, but it was here in Arizona.   Many of these folks try to be invisible when taxes are concerned.   Some places were hiring and paying in cash, no records.   Lots of ways to cheat.

Not saying that all do this, but plenty of the illegal ones do try to keep as much as possible so they can send it back home where ever that is.


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## mitchezz (Aug 23, 2015)

In 2013 Australia elected an extreme Right PM who promised to fix everything and convinced the electorate with three word slogans. A couple of years on the economy is worse, unemployment up, country is polarised, racial tensions on the rise, secrecy about many government activities, limiting of press freedoms, vilification of the lower income and welfare reliant people, strained foreign relations........I could write a thesis. Don't believe someone who has simple solutions for complex problems.


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## MaryZPA (Aug 23, 2015)

People at all levels of American society do things to avoid paying taxes. My point was to refute your earlier statement that undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes. As you can see, this report estimates that they paid nearly 12 billion dollars in taxes in 2012.


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## BobF (Aug 23, 2015)

MaryZPA said:


> People at all levels of American society do things to avoid paying taxes. My point was to refute your earlier statement that undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes. As you can see, this report estimates that they paid nearly 12 billion dollars in taxes in 2012.



You apparently did not read my post about the reports in Arizona about illegal immigrants cheating on taxes.   That is a fact and I made the effort to say not all but many do this.   Saying that people of all levels of society should not be said too loudly as the IRS wants to know about them.   Saying 10 children to avoid paying as you go is wrong.   Never filing is also wrong.   People of all levels need to be aware and there have been some efforts to clean up the tax laws to try to prevent that from happening.   Maybe the next President, of either party, will allow a rewrite of the IRS rules.


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## Lara (Aug 23, 2015)

Paul Krugman is extreme left. Like Lon, I'm neither extreme left nor extreme right, nor in between for that matter. I like to decide what the truth is by going straight to the source, the people…not the NY Times article. I watch interviews and debates, etc. I take commentaries with a grain of salt. I prefer to go directly to the candidates and hear what they have to say…then formulate my own opinion. I do the same with my Bible. I don't go by Commentaries. I go straight to the Bible and read it right from the source. The truth is clear in there.

Something interesting…I think most republicans and candidates want to change some part of social security, medicare, and medicaid. Jeb Bush does, Scott Walker, and Chris Christie do. Not Trump lol. Why am I not surprised. He's often the odd man out…people seem to like that too.  He says why should we change social security when people have worked hard for it, like it the way it is, and America can make money in other ways. He really does make it sound so simple. Do things really have to be all that complicated? If simple works then simple it is.

The top republican strategists today said that Trump may make it to the primary but not the Presidency. What's sad, if that happens, is that it ruins the chances of all the other republican candidates because of the focus on Trump. Biden, most likely will run and win next fall. He's been the VP for 8 years. He deserves it in that respect.

You know, it's funny. I never liked Biden because I thought he was so arrogant and egotistical…but he looks like a pussycat next to Trump haha


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## Jackie22 (Aug 24, 2015)

Paul Krugman is a leading intellectual, his credentials are a mile long, I can always learn from him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Krugman


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## Shalimar (Aug 24, 2015)

Jackie, correct me if I am mistaken, isn't Mr. Krugman a moderate?  It seems to me that  labels of left-wing are often applied to intellectuals who buck the common trend. Hmm. Your thoughts?


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## QuickSilver (Aug 24, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Jackie, correct me if I am mistaken, isn't Mr. Krugman a moderate?  It seems to me that  labels of left-wing are often applied to intellectuals who buck the common trend. Hmm. Your thoughts?



Yes... he is very much a moderate.


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## MaryZPA (Aug 24, 2015)

Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman is a liberal, but certainly not an idealogue. He's been critical of Republican policy, and he's criticized Democratic administrations, too. He's a brilliant economist.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 24, 2015)

I guess what makes Conservatives believe he is far left is the fact that he completely disproves "Trickle Down" and Supply Side Economics for the BS that it is.  So he must be "FAR" Left..


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## Jackie22 (Aug 24, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Jackie, correct me if I am mistaken, isn't Mr. Krugman a moderate?  It seems to me that  labels of left-wing are often applied to intellectuals who buck the common trend. Hmm. Your thoughts?



Yes, you are correct, he worked in the Reagan administration and he does criticize President Obama from time to time, so I do not agree with the 'left wing extremist' label. 

To me the man is brilliant, after all he did win the nobel prize.


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## Jackie22 (Aug 24, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I guess what makes Conservatives believe he is far left is the fact that he completely disproves "Trickle Down" and Supply Side Economics for the BS that it is.  So he must be "FAR" Left..



Yes, you are correct, QS....he also wrote a brilliant book on the inequality that is rampant in this country.


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## Shalimar (Aug 24, 2015)

Sooo, if you write about inequality, you are far left? If you practice it, you are alright? Sick. That is beyond dark humour.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 24, 2015)

That about sums it up


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## Debby (Aug 24, 2015)

Lara said:


> ..... My plan was for this thread to be for those who have viewed the interviews because he comes across much more differently than you all have seen…or worse, heard. Although it is for everyone so all are welcome to post here of course.




Just finishing the first video Lara, even though I have no skin in the game (sort of), and I have to say, my impression of him is a lot different than it was a half hour ago.  He said some things that I don't agree with, but he also made some really good points.  One good point that I'm sure many would agree with is that if America is going to be the world's policeman, you should get paid for it.  So for example, if the Saudi's get into a fight with someone trying to oust them and they 'expect' America to come in and save them or at least help them, you should be reimbursed for the cost.  He also said that you shouldn't have troops stationed all over the world......and I agree with that.  Your troops should be at home.

He also said in this campaign, he won't accept lobbyist financing because he doesn't want to be beholden to anyone if/when he gets elected.  Lobbyists are half your countries problem in my opinion and getting them with their million dollar donations to politicians, out of the picture would be a good start on restoring balance and fairness to your political system on so many fronts I think.

I think he loves the spotlight, but I have begun to think that he's also very astute and his political philosophy seems to be running the country like it's a huge business, and we all know that he's done very well in that regard.  So who knows.....


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## NancyNGA (Aug 24, 2015)

But what about when he is president and the Congress disagrees with him?  He may think he can just fire them.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 24, 2015)

NancyNGA said:


> But what about when he is president and the Congress disagrees with him?  He may think he can just fire them.



See that is the problem.  He says what people want to hear, but ignores what it takes to do those things.  It's easy to say anything as long as you don't have to provide the detail of how you get those things done.  Constitution, Treaties, self interests and all the areas where even a president has no power to change not to mention, as you note, he needs congress to accomplish many if not all of his "solutions".


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## QuickSilver (Aug 24, 2015)

Maybe Trump is playing Conservative to simply win the nomination.....and when he gets to the General election makes a hard LEFT turn?  Wouldn't it be really, really funny if Trump went on to win the Presidency and turned back into the LIBERAL he was just a few years ago?  OOOPs...

This is not as far fetched as it sounds... and certainly has crossed the RNC's mind.


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## Lara (Aug 24, 2015)

Excellent post Debby. I remember all the examples you mentioned from the video but completely forgot about them with all the "much ado about nothing" clouding this thread here and there. Don't get me wrong, other members have also made some good observations too. Your examples are gems, I must say. 

Yes, I agree, the countries that can afford our help should pay us something to use to help our veterans, etc. Trump kept repeating, we do this and give that but "We get nothing". he's right. We left 170 million pounds of military jets, tanks, and other gear when we pulled out of Iraq quickly and Isis seized some of it….Trump says its poor management that won't happen on his watch because he knows management. 

The panel on Face The Nation said that they once thought he was a buffoon but they don't think so anymore...but they also agreed that he's not presidential material and won't win, he's got to loose that egotism and flamboyancy if he plans to win. Biden is polished and experienced and more gentlemanly so he'll win unless something crazy happens. Our country is crazy ready for intelligent action. One thing for sure, if Trump loses, he has still gained more respect than he ever had before.


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## Debby (Aug 24, 2015)

NancyNGA said:


> But what about when he is president and the Congress disagrees with him?  He may think he can just fire them.




Good point Nancy.  Can't you just imagine it?  He's sitting there in the Oval Office, getting all red in the face and yelling 'you're ALL fired!'  Maybe if he gets elected, the people should insist on cameras in there.  Can you imagine the ratings?


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## AZ Jim (Aug 24, 2015)

"One thing for sure, if Trump loses, he has still gained more respect than he ever had before." Says Lara.  He may be considered  a even bigger fool than we thought to begin with.


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## Debby (Aug 24, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Maybe Trump is playing Conservative to simply win the nomination.....and when he gets to the General election makes a hard LEFT turn?  Wouldn't it be really, really funny if Trump went on to win the Presidency and turned back into the LIBERAL he was just a few years ago?  OOOPs...
> 
> This is not as far fetched as it sounds... and certainly has crossed the RNC's mind.




You know I don't think there's anything wrong with moving from one 'side' to the other if you are doing it because you've continued to evolve in your understanding of the issues and events of the world and you begin to see that ideas you once held fast to don't match your current philosophy.  I have voted Conservative, Green and now it's a toss up which way I'll vote in our election although it won't be Conservative again.  Maybe Liberal, maybe NDP, not sure yet.  

But when I 'helped' vote the Liberals out ten years ago, I felt they needed a major slap for some bad behaviour and I thought the current government would behave better than they've turned out to have and now I think it's time they need to be taken down a notch.

So if Trump were to have experienced a change of philosophy over the past few years, or if he saw recent changes that didn't match up to the philosophy he still holds,  so what?  And playing both sides against the middle.....(I think that's kind of what you're suggesting QS), then wouldn't that be true to his talents as a business man?  I think there's a far greater problem when someone refuses to make adjustments to their support when they can see that what their party is doing is absolutely against their personal beliefs or against the greater good and that would apply to either or any side.  (and that's just my opinion folks)


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## AZ Jim (Aug 24, 2015)

Debby said:


> You know I don't think there's anything wrong with moving from one 'side' to the other if you are doing it because you've continued to evolve in your understanding of the issues and events of the world and you begin to see that ideas you once held fast to don't match your current philosophy.  I have voted Conservative, Green and now it's a toss up which way I'll vote in our election although it won't be Conservative again.  Maybe Liberal, maybe NDP, not sure yet.
> 
> But when I 'helped' vote the Liberals out ten years ago, I felt they needed a major slap for some bad behaviour and I thought the current government would behave better than they've turned out to have and now I think it's time they need to be taken down a notch.
> 
> So if Trump were to have experienced a change of philosophy over the past few years, or if he saw recent changes that didn't match up to the philosophy he still holds,  so what?  And playing both sides against the middle.....(I think that's kind of what you're suggesting QS), then wouldn't that be true to his talents as a business man?  I think there's a far greater problem when someone refuses to make adjustments to their support when they can see that what their party is doing is absolutely against their personal beliefs or against the greater good and that would apply to either or any side.  (and that's just my opinion folks)




How DARE you have an opinion!!!!!!!!  *wry smile*


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## QuickSilver (Aug 24, 2015)

He may just be smart enough to navigate the Republican primary by pretending far right etiology... and once getting the nomination do a hard left turn to win the general...  Ever think about that?   That would be a really hard Bait and Switch.. but he is a business man.. and very savvy on manipulation and in getting his way...  Isn't that what people like about him?


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## Debby (Aug 24, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> How DARE you have an opinion!!!!!!!!  *wry smile*




I know, 'shame on me' and I'm slapping myself on the hand for it!


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## Lara (Aug 24, 2015)

nancyNCA said:
			
		

> But what about when he is president and the Congress disagrees with him? He may think he can just fire them.


That would be good for SNL lol



Debby said:


> You know I don't think there's anything wrong with moving from one 'side' to the other if you are doing it because you've continued to evolve in your understanding of the issues and events of the world and you begin to see that ideas you once held fast to don't match your current philosophy.  I have voted Conservative, Green and now it's a toss up which way I'll vote in our election although it won't be Conservative again.  Maybe Liberal, maybe NDP, not sure yet.
> 
> But when I 'helped' vote the Liberals out ten years ago, I felt they needed a major slap for some bad behaviour and I thought the current government would behave better than they've turned out to have and now I think it's time they need to be taken down a notch.
> 
> So if Trump were to have experienced a change of philosophy over the past few years, or if he saw recent changes that didn't match up to the philosophy he still holds,  so what?  And playing both sides against the middle.....(I think that's kind of what you're suggesting QS), then wouldn't that be true to his talents as a business man?  I think there's a far greater problem when someone refuses to make adjustments to their support when they can see that what their party is doing is absolutely against their personal beliefs or against the greater good and that would apply to either or any side.  (and that's just my opinion folks)


I like your posts because they have substance and make for interesting reading. Plus, I have the same opinion as you've shared here. I never have understood what the issue is of changing your mind, as long as the people agree with it and it moves our country forward...unless it's something that isn't allowed. I'll bet he adapts to the changing times in his own business on a daily basis…that's why he's successful. We can't be stagnant old fuddy-duddies that can't budge anymore. It's the 21st century. "Do we want a country or not". We're 20 trillion dollars in debt. Nobody keeps a careful eye on that. He can be flexible when it comes to Making America Great…whatever it takes as long as we're moving forward and the people are happy. He knows how to do that. And he loves his country deep down…it show in his interviews.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 25, 2015)

My husband and I were watching a little bit of his speech today in Ohio, and we were chuckling because he's go confident, egotistical and sure of himself.  I have to say though, of all the other republican candidates, if I had to vote for one, it would probably be Trump.

  It's refreshing that he just doesn't care about saying the right thing to make anybody happy, and that he has no financial cloud over his head, wanting money support from anyone, he's pretty much on his own.  He says what he wants to, and doesn't care that much if anyone disagrees with him, he doesn't weigh each word in fear of making a mistake.  I don't think he really cares what party he embraces, he'd jump to Independent in a heartbeat if someone pi$$ed him off, and wouldn't care about the consequences to anyone in the GOP.

  He wants to keep corporations in America, and it would be great if he could bring factories and jobs back here and build us up again to provide work for the citizens here who are struggling.  But, even if he were president, he would only have so much power.  Right now, he's rattling off a lot of ideas, but realistically things are much easier said than done. At least he's talking, don't hear much content from the others.

The other candidates in the republican party seem very weak and not even capable of doing the job, almost like deer in the headlights.  One is afraid to even use his last name, and one is afraid to use his first name.  They seem to flip flop almost every day on whether they were for the Iraq invasion, or against it, etc.

  Some are just religious zealots who want to rule this country strictly by the bible, and want to take direction daily on what moves to make when they are president, from their god.  To me that's very scary...let's just keep religion out of government and worry about the constitution and our laws and regulations which affect all of us in this (real) life.


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## charlotta (Aug 26, 2015)

Here is my reasoning about Trump's popularity.  He rails against the establishment especially the US Senate and House.  People are sick of their never getting anything done and he's playing this as his "trump" card.  I am sick of the politicians and lobbyists in Washington as well.  This doesn't mean I support Trump.  I am more scare of him .  I do not want anyone going into office that is going back to Iraq and try to seize their oil.  Haven't we messed them up enough?  I feel sorry for the Iraq people who are moderates and have had their lives and land desercrated.  I am for trying to help them improve their military and hope _they_ get a leader who doesn't discriminate against his people .  I hope that the people can get this done without our sending our  troops to fight for another ruler/dictator.  Don't think we can solve their problems especially the religious one since this has been a problem since 1400s.


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## charlotta (Aug 26, 2015)

Another note to ponder concerning Trump's wall - what are we going to do about the ones building tunnels and coming by water illegally


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

Charlotta, I believe you have hit the nail on the head. Whether or not one appreciates Mr. Trump's 'style,' the bottom line is practicality. All the ideas in the world do not matter squad diddly, without a feasible plan of action. Otherwise it is just empty rhetoric, playing to the choir.


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

Good post, Sea Breeze. He's a fearless leader. In all the interviews I've seen, NObody can back him into a corner, try as they might. This interview below with Bill O'Reilly is incredible…firing questions non stop on all the hot topics that face America in 10 minutes. Watch how Trump controls the whole show. He's like a Sherman tank. When asked what he's going to do about Isis, he said, "I'm going to find the Patton and the McArthur". It's going to take troops, but we've got troops posted all over the world that aren't necessary. He's good at management. Put them where they're needed most.

He certainly comes across egotistical but we have to admit that he's being realistic about his abilities and successes. People now know he's not a lot of hot air. Also, people criticize him for being too simplistic with his solutions but I think that's his "magic" of getting things done.…he uncomplicates everything to where it's doable. I've caught him many times being humble about the possibility of not winning every time, or that he's made some mistakes but quickly recovers barrels on ahead. He slams his own party, but hey, he's right, and he'll fix it.

He has some very irritating things about his personality but he loves his country, is very intelligent, knows management, has the understanding and finesse needed for negotiations and foreign relations, etc. and I believe he would be very generous in helping this country. He once quietly said that there was a time when he thought of paying off our national debt but it quickly escalated higher than he could do. He knows that that wouldn't solve our debt problem because it continues to rise daily at an enormous rate. If at all possible, I wouldn't be surprised if he'll fix that. And that would benefit the whole world. Look how the devaluation of China's currency has negatively affected the world.

Many people in this political thread won't watch this because they don't like Trump's personality…their loss:


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

He's just alienated 100% of the Hispanic vote by having George Ramos of Univision  thrown out of the room...  Ramos is the most powerful voice to the Latino community in this country...    Trump will NEVER become president..


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 26, 2015)

The guy spoke out of turn and wouldn't shut up.  I am no Trump fan but he was right in this instance...


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

I agree Ralphy, Trump didn't throw Ramos out, security did. I would have thrown him out too. He was disruptive, had not been called on, refused to follow the rules, and wouldn't take his turn. Trump was polite and said he wouldn't mind if he was allowed to come back in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uIx_7srVj0


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## Jackie22 (Aug 26, 2015)

Lara said:


> I agree Ralphy, Trump didn't throw Ramos out, security did. I would have thrown him out too. He was disruptive, had not been called on, refused to follow the rules, and wouldn't take his turn. Trump was polite and said he wouldn't mind if he was allowed to come back in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uIx_7srVj0



I don't think Trump was polite or that the reporter was screaming as Trump said he was....Trump did not handle the situation well at all...if you will note, he turned around and gave security the go ahead to take the reporter out.

This man is a time bomb waiting to explode, if he can't deal with a reporter how to you think he will ever negotiate with the leaders of other countries, he'd have us in a war before you can blink.


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

Did you watch the whole thing Jackie? Trump invited him back even. Trump was firm because Ramos was out of control. You can't run a press conference (or a country) by allowing chaos to take over. Ramos should have waited his turn. "Screaming" does not always mean "loud". Ramos talked non-stop out of turn dispite security and trump trying to stop him. When I say Trump screams success, I don't mean he yelled the word "success". Ramos screamed disruptive behavior. I get that.


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## Jackie22 (Aug 26, 2015)

Lara, we'll have to disagree about Trump.

I think he'll implode before too long, but in the meantime he is entertainment, thats about the only positive I see with this man.


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 26, 2015)

He has gone from entertainment to far and away the leader of the Repub candidates and is driving the agenda and driving the rest crazy.  Expect to see him stay and become a serious alternative to any establishment candidate in either party...


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> He has gone from entertainment to far and away the leader of the Repub candidates and is driving the agenda and driving the rest crazy.  Expect to see him stay and become a serious alternative to any establishment candidate in either party...


Exactly. I think those who don't see that are not watching any of his serious interviews like in my post #188 (or reading unbiased accounts)


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Here are the undisputable facts... and I know that FACTs are pesky little things that are ignored when a shiny object like Trump is involved... but here goes.

#1   Trump cannot deport 11+ million people, and their American Citizen Children..    It has been estimated that the cost of deporting ONE person is in the $12,000 range..   Multiply that by 11+ million..  and it is simply far to expensive to consider.     Not to mention.. what are the logistics of that mass deportation going to look like.   How will all these millions be rounded up..  Do you NOT see this as being as bad as the most nefarious human rights violation that is committed by other countries we love to bitch to about ?   Do you not see this as turning violent and people being killed?   Amazing that anyone would believe what Trump is saying

#2   Trump cannot build a 20 foot high 2,000 mile fence along the boards.   It would be an engineering nightmare as it would have to span through lakes and rivers.. Not only that, it would have to be patrolled for those climbing over... and as Trump thinks.. X-ray equipment has to be installed all along the 2000 miles to see people tunneling under it..  Also.. Mexico is going to pay for this?   Amazing that anyone would even think this a possibility.

#3.  Trump cannot do away with the 14th amendment of the US Constitution with an executive order.. or legislation in congress.  Those so called "Anchor Babies" are US Citizens and have the same rights and privileges as ALL American Citizens.  It would require a constitutional amendment.. and we have discussed how unlikely that is....   What happens to those who are already American Citizens.. Do we strip away their rights?  Amazing how some folks believe what Trump is spewing.

AND finally... and I think most important..  

What Trump did last night by insulting and removing Jorge Ramos put the final nail in his hopes for presidency.  Despite how you feel about Ramos's conduct last night, the fact remains that he is the most powerful and influential voice to the entire Hispanic community.  The Gallup poll already has trump a negative 71% among registered Hispanic voters..  Do you want to venture a guess what it will be now?   My bet is every single Hispanic that is registered to vote either knows someone or has a family member that is undocumented.. Do you even have to guess what they think of him after his buffoonery last night?   


FACT#4...  NO ONE has ever won the presidency with less than 35% of the Hispanic vote..  Romney got only 27%..  So.. as I have stated.. Trump will NEVER be president.   MY advise to those who believe so is to enjoy your  fantasy while it lasts.   I'm curious to see how far Trump will go and if he will win the GOP nomination..but I rest assured if he does.. we will have a new Democrat in the White House on January 20th 2017


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## Ralphy1 (Aug 26, 2015)

Yes, I agree that should he win the nomination Biden will beat him him in a landslide...


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Yes, I agree that should he win the nomination Biden will beat him him in a landslide...



I agree too... as will ANYONE the Democrats decide to nominate.


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

Without saying what my stand is on it personally, here are the FACTS: For starters, Undocumented Immigrants - http://www.rense.com/general81/dtli.htm
As far as the cost of deportation one immigrant for $12,000...it's far less than it costs the taxpayer to keep them. It costs the taxpayer over $12,000 per pupil per year alone.


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

I cannot understand any leader countenancing sending helpless, innocent children into situations of squalor/violence/abuse/death. No Christian or compassionate person could accept the callous amorality of such a thing.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I cannot understand any leader countenancing sending helpless, innocent children into situations of squalor/violence/abuse/death. No Christian or compassionate person could accept the callous amorality of such a thing.



Reminds me of the Stephen Colbert quote

“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”     
―     Stephen Colbert


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## BobF (Aug 26, 2015)

Some of those comments made above are just exaggeration of comments made.   

To build a wall.  Maybe those were the words used.  I think that would be a wall of something like wire fence, which we have in locations but many hundreds of miles are not protected by fence or electronics and those place are where many folks do get across.  We have to locate and destroy tunnels, intercept vehicles carrying hidden people through on our highways.   We need better ways of finding and stopping what is currently going on.    What we have on our southern border is a passage from Central and South America's through Mexico and into the US.   If those folks really want or need to get into the US there are proper ways to do so and most folks follow those paths.

Getting rid of *all* immigrants is just another exaggeration.   It is not just finding all that don't belong here and busing them out.   That could be most of us depending on who is making that decision.   What we do want to get rid of are the criminal ones that are protected in some of our sanctuary cities.   Places where the federal folks are not allowed to come into and pick up illegal and criminal types of immigrants.   Those cities are against the existing laws and need to be challenged by the US in our courts.  Criminals are criminals and being a illegal or legal immigrant or person of the US should not block the capture and removal or jail of those types of people.

Most of these folks here would be welcomed if they announce themselves to authorities.    We need folks to be honest with our ways and systems.   They live here and do low level work, pay only parts of their income taxes, if any.   They do take advantage of our school systems, health systems, charity groups, anything that makes it possible to live here.

Far too much is an exaggeration of what is going on.   Especially in these early political discussions.   By spring much of this will be made much more clearly and a whole lot fewer candidates will be still in the picture.   

As for last night episode, it surely was planned to be a noticeable distraction and the outcome was proper for sure.   He was taken from the room and quieted down.   Now for sure he has a position to use to make some voters not like Trump.   Spring is a 6 month trip away and by they maybe Trump won't be around, or maybe stronger.   These planned political efforts should be considered as such an just go on as before.   Those typed of actions are surely not proper for the interrupter or the speaker.


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Reminds me of the Stephen Colbert quote, “If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”


I believe we should keep all US born citizens, who were already born under the 14th amendment, here with us, BUT you're quoting Colbert to prove your point that says America doesn't help the poor??? You can't be serious. We do more to help the poor worldwide than any other nation. Are you saying we're suppose to gather them all up from around the world and bring them to our country to do it? That's not possible. No, we come to them. And many ask us to help and we go first before anyone else. Depite our generosity, American haters are ungrateful.

Bob, I never thought about the fact that it could have been planned to make Trump look bad or to distract from the Press Conference. Good point. That guy was crazy just asking non-stop when it was someone else's turn…he's a nut case or following orders from a planned attack on Trump…or both.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Unfortunately... there is a very large segment that begrudges any help the poor get in the form of food stamps or any other assistance.  However the Colbert quote in reference to immigrants still applies.  We want to round up people.... pull them out of their homes and send them to a country where many or most would have no home or place to go..  THAT to me is not behaving as instructed by Scripture.


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

As a member of the world outside America, but in no way an enemy of my southern neighbour, I believe that what motivates many "American haters" has far more to do with various foreign policy decisions than a lack of appreciation for the many humanitarian acts carried out overseas by the American gov't.


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

As you know QS, blaming the victim is a classic move people use in order to avoid feelings of guilt or responsibility. Sad.


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> …We want to round up people.... pull them out of their homes and send them to a country where many or most would have no home or place to go..  THAT to me is not behaving as instructed by Scripture.


Who says we're going to dump them "somewhere with no home or place to go"? Please post your link to that. America wouldn't do that. America and American charitable organizations build shelters worldwide or find adequate living arrangements. And most immigrants have families in their own country that will take them back.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> The guy spoke out of turn and wouldn't shut up.  I am no Trump fan but he was right in this instance...



You may be right...  However, it doesn't matter.  Ramos is an extremely powerful voice of the Hispanic community.  This will not bode well for Trump as far as votes go.. That incident will be broadcast over and over on Hispanic media.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Lara said:


> Who says we're going to dump them "somewhere with no home or place to go"? Please post your link to that. America wouldn't do that. America and American charitable organizations build shelters worldwide or find adequate living arrangements. And most immigrants have families in their own country that will take them back.



wonder how much more that will add to the estimated cost of $12,000 per deportee..??  You cannot force people to take others into their homes.. WE cannot force people in other countries to take in virtual strangers.   Many immigrants have been here 20 years and really have no connections to people in their home countries.  That would be like someone telling me I have to take in a German that I don't even know, or telling a German citizen he has to take me into his home.. simply because we have genetic ties..


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

Huh? Who said anything about "forcing people to take others into their homes...to take in virtual strangers."??? Most Mexicans have large families that all support one another. I know that for a fact because I hired some in Southern California. And if they don't have any family, America will help them to find what they need there. Have faith in America. Please find the link where you're getting these "facts".


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/09/...ed-immigrant-population-becomes-more-settled/



> There is renewed interest in unauthorized immigrants who are long-time residents of the United States and have U.S.-born children because they are among those to whom President Obama reportedly is considering offering a temporary reprieve from deportation (Los Angeles Times, 2014). Obama reiterated in late August that he would prefer that Congress pass major legislation to overhaul the immigration system, but because Congress has not done so, he may take executive action on his own (White House, 2014).
> 
> *Among the nation’s 10.4 million unauthorized adults, a shrinking share have been in the country for less than five years—15% in 2012, compared with 38% in 2000. A rising share have lived in the U.S. for a decade or more—62% in 2012, compared with 35% in 2000. About a fifth (21%) had been in the U.S. for two decades or more as of 2012.*





> *As of 2012, all unauthorized immigrant parents of U.S.-born children had lived in the U.S. for a median 15 years, longer than the median 12 years for the entire unauthorized population. In 2000, the median was 11 years for these parents.*



It's clear to ME at least that the longer people have been assimilated into our country the less tie they have with their native country.  The less chance they have relatives willing to take them in... or even know their relatives.  You cannot make people take in these deportees..


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Can we also discuss HOW all these people will be rounded up... how they will be transported and how it will NOT become a blood bath and violent as people are taken from their homes of 20+ years?


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## BobF (Aug 26, 2015)

I still think there are some left thinkers that are just taking simple statements from speeches and then saying they are threats of US actions in the future.   Say all immigrants are to be sent back is not a fact.   They are here and we are trying to get them to come out into our system and be taken care of properly.

Now those that have become criminals, been charged, we would like to get rid of them for sure.

Stopping more entries of illegal immigrants is a big priority and worth the efforts.   It is an international effort for getting all they can through our borders without being noticed.    Needs to stop.   By our laws and desires to help others we can not make our welfare system to off limits except to US recognized folks.   Thousands would then be without doctors, schools, jobs, etc.   No more illegal entries, or at least a great reduction, if we did that.   But they really should come forward and be recognized officially as living in the US.

That person Trump interrupted and had taken from the hall was actually continuing to talk while Trump was already listening to a different reporter already.    He deserved to no interrupt others conversations.   Later he was brought back and allowed to ask questions of Trump.   The other reporters should make an issue of this action by the rogue reporter.


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

America is going to find homes outside it's borders  for up to ten million, (or a large percentage of) unauthorised adults? How is
that feasible? Faith is lovely, but it is not a plan. Canada can't accomadate them, we don't have the structures in place to cope with up to a 30% increase in population. Who else does?  Are these poor individuals going to be permanently processed into  unwanted refugee status in camps reminiscent of third world countries?


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## BobF (Aug 26, 2015)

Where are all these strange facts coming from.    I have not seen any comments from the candidates of either party saying such to be the rules or their ideas of the rules.

This question has been asked above and still no real answers, just more foolish comments with no supports.


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

Disagreeing with each other is a healthy part of robust debate, but calling people's comments foolish is personal and rude.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> America is going to find homes outside it's borders  for up to ten million, (or a large percentage of) unauthorised adults? How is
> that feasible? Faith is lovely, but it is not a plan. Canada can't accomadate them, we don't have the structures in place to cope with up to a 30% increase in population. Who else does?  Are these poor individuals going to be permanently processed into  unwanted refugee status in camps reminiscent of third world countries?



It's very clear the only realistic plan is Immigration reform.. securing the border  (sans 20 foot 2000 mile fence) and a pathway to citizenship for those already here and have a clean record. .  As far as deportation, I have no problem with the violent criminals going.. I don't think anyone does.


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

BobF said:


> Where are all these strange facts coming from.    I have not seen any comments from the candidates of either party saying such to be the rules or their ideas of the rules.
> 
> This question has been asked above and still no real answers, just more foolish comments with no supports.


Isn't that the truth. No details have been given. We're not even into our 2nd debate yet…there will be 6. Naysayers need to be patient and stop making up the details themselves. It's not going to happen tomorrow, if at all. 

QuickSilver…why do you keep insisting that we are going to force immigrant's families to take them in ??? That's preposterous…certainly not the American way. Have a little faith in your country.


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

Blind faith doesn't move mountains, engineering does.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Lara said:


> Isn't that the truth. No details have been given. We're not even into our 2nd debate yet…there will be 6. Naysayers need to be patient and stop making up the details themselves. It's not going to happen tomorrow, if at all.
> 
> QuickSilver…why do you keep insisting that we are going to force immigrant's families to take them in ??? That's preposterous…certainly not the American way. Have a little faith in your country.



From your own words... indicating the most undocumented workers have large families in their native countries.  What is one to deduce from that comment?  That these families should take them in.  If that is not what you meant then please explain the relevance of that comment.


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

I was correct, "most have large families that all support one another". That means a willingness, not force. That doesn't say anywhere that America will force those families to take them in as you suggest. Only sensationalism could heighten that comment to forcefulness.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Lara said:


> I was correct, "most have large families that all support one another". That means a willingness, not force. That doesn't say anywhere that America will force those families to take them in as you suggest. Only sensationalism could heighten that comment to forcefulness.



Fair enough.... So please answer my other question... What would the logistics of rounding up 11+ million people and transporting them to their native countries look like?   Do you believe it could be done without it becoming violent and people getting hurt? 

Should people be shot if they do not go willingly?  How about the old and feeble..  Shoot them too?  What would the "deportation" police look like?  Would they wear brown shirts?


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

First foolishness, now sensationalism? My this thread is certainly going down hill. Can we stick to the debate please, and leave out any extraneous personal remarks. It is not appropriate behaviour in a courteous adult discussion, and only serves to distract from the content.


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

I certainly hope that no one here is advocating the threat of  wholesale slaughter of innocent people as a deterrent for refusing to be deported. Why, that would be genocide! However, in the interest of cost effectiveness and patriotism, perhaps both the brown/black shirts and jackboots could be American made?


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Fair enough.... So please answer my other question... What would the logistics of rounding up 11+ million people and transporting them to their native countries look like?   Do you believe it could be done without it becoming violent and people getting hurt?  What would the "deportation" police look like?  Would they wear brown shirts?
> Should they be shot if they do not go willingly?  How about the old and feeble..  Shoot them too?


Relax. This is not your exaggerated reference to storm troopers and genocide. This is humanely returning them to their country of legal origin….of course. I have no details as to the plan so no since in guessing….of course. There will be plenty of time to discuss this once you have some details…of course


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> ...sensationalism? My this thread is certainly going down hill.


The word "sensationalism" is an appropriate word for use in a political thread.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

charlotta said:


> Another note to ponder concerning Trump's wall - what are we going to do about the ones building tunnels and coming by water illegally



One word: Ladders


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

Lara, perhaps political threads are too stressful for a lady of your sensibilities? You seem to become upset if others attempt to
point out flaws in your arguments, and react to them somewhat personally.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Lara said:


> Relax. This is not your exaggerated reference to storm troopers and genocide. This is humanely returning them to their country of legal origin….of course. I have no details as to the plan so no since in guessing….of course. There will be plenty of time to discuss this once you have some details…of course



If you sincerely believe that people can be routed from their homes of 10 or 20 years.. and taken to deportation centers against their will..  and no one will be shot for resisting.. or injured in some way...  Or even if they are not.... that this process could in any way be considered "Humane" I have no words for you.  ..   It's an absolute fantasy that this can be accomplished without it becoming violent..


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## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

Lara said:


> Relax. This is not your exaggerated reference to storm troopers and genocide. This is humanely returning them to their country of legal origin….of course. I have no details as to the plan so no since in guessing….of course. There will be plenty of time to discuss this once you have some details…of course



Details?  Trump?  That is never going to happen Lara.  Read my lips, when it comes to doing, not just talking Trump will fold like a busted poker hand.


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Lara, perhaps political threads are too stressful for a lady of your sensibilities? You seem to become upset if others attempt to
> point out flaws in your arguments, and react to them somewhat personally.


Where did that come from lol. You remind me of a quote…"People resort to insults when they have nothing intelligent to say". Let's stick with the topic.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Details?  Trump?  That is never going to happen Lara.  Read my lips, when it comes to doing, not just talking Trump will fold like a busted poker hand.



What I think is so ironic is that the people that are lining up behind Trump are doing so because they are dissatisfied with their current flock of Republican politicians and angry about being lied to by them every election... After all... they sent all those Republicans to the House and the Senate to repeal Obama care.. End abortions, establish a theocracy and an official language, and NOT ONE of those things happened.   So NOW they are believing all the hot air Trump is blowing?  Seriously?   His promises are nothing but a conservative wish list, without one single detail of how he plans on accomplishing these things.   Why is Trump being believed is my question.... when none of the others could deliver.


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

Wow, I am certain you did not mean to infer that I lack intelligence, why, that would be a personal attack. Lol.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

Let me ask you Lara, does Trump strike you as presidential in approach?  Fighting with Kelly?, Rosey? etal....


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

QS, from an outsider's perspective it appears that some folks may be desperate to find a republican candidate that will mitigate all the rhetoric and lack of success of  their previous politicians, and see him as a plain speaking honest self made man, one of the people. Someone who will solve internal/external problems with his magical business acumen, and return America to a golden era of prosperity and global admiration. Seems like a tall order to me.


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

AZ Jim said:
			
		

> Let me ask you Lara, does Trump strike you as presidential?


Here's my answer, Jim:



Lara said:


> Good post, Sea Breeze (post #184). He's a fearless leader. In all the interviews I've seen, NObody can back him into a corner, try as they might. This interview below with Bill O'Reilly is incredible…firing questions non stop on all the hot topics that face America in 10 minutes. Watch how Trump controls the whole show. He's like a Sherman tank. When asked what he's going to do about Isis, he said, "I'm going to find the Patton and the McArthur". It's going to take troops, but we've got troops posted all over the world that aren't necessary. He's good at management. Put them where they're needed most.
> 
> He certainly comes across egotistical but we have to admit that he's being realistic about his abilities and successes. People now know he's not a lot of hot air. Also, people criticize him for being too simplistic with his solutions but I think that's his "magic" of getting things done.…he uncomplicates everything to where it's doable. I've caught him many times being humble about the possibility of not winning every time, or that he's made some mistakes but quickly recovers barrels on ahead. He slams his own party, but hey, he's right, and he'll fix it.
> 
> ...


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## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

You get things done my not alienating those you must deal with.  That doesn't mean steamroll them with demeaning insults.


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## Shalimar (Aug 26, 2015)

I agree Jim. Needless ridicule is not the way to accomplish whatever needs to be done.


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## BobF (Aug 26, 2015)

Once again I ask, where does all this nonsense about sending all immigrants back to where ever come from.    I still have not heard one response on where that comes from.   Just a lot of nonsense by some very over agitated folks that have no back up for their comments and refuse to end their nonsense about sending all immigrants away.   Not planned, not part of the US way of living at all.

For those that wonder.    Where our southern fence does not exist, borders on land or at sea, we have border patrols in air and at sea we have Coast Guards also helping to stop ships, large and small.   This happens along the California coast and also along the Florida and Gulf of Mexico coast areas.   Areas known to be channels for this incorrect way of entering the US are monitored as best we can.   They are also looking for drug imports as well as people imports.   

It is still of interest as to whom is starting these rumors that all immigrants will be sent away?   Because that could mean you or me too.

BS is fun, but facts are more important.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 26, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> QS, from an outsider's perspective it appears that some folks may be desperate to find a republican candidate that will mitigate all the rhetoric and lack of success of  their previous politicians, and see him as a plain speaking honest self made man, one of the people. Someone who will solve internal/external problems with his magical business acumen, and return America to a golden era of prosperity and global admiration. Seems like a tall order to me.



It is a tall order, and sadly probably unrealistic to fill.  BTW, I don't think he's presidential at all, but I don't see that in the others either on the republican side.  He's just a GOP "light", lightens up on the overly religious and other negative characteristics of the other candidates.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Let me ask you Lara, does Trump strike you as presidential in approach?  Fighting with Kelly?, Rosey? etal....



Or Jorge Ramos...  whether Ramos was right or wrong..   HERE is what Presidential looks like..

http://wearefusion.tumblr.com/post/104812486184/transcript-president-obama-speaks-to-jorge-ramos


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## Davey Jones (Aug 26, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Can we also discuss HOW all these people will be rounded up... how they will be transported and how it will NOT become a blood bath and violent as people are taken from their homes of 20+ years?



It simply cant be done and even Trump knows that but there are enough stupid voters out there to put him in office.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> It simply cant be done and even Trump knows that but there are enough stupid voters out there to put him in office.



Yes... and they will surely be disappointed again... as always with their choice.  Nearly all the things Trump talks tough about cannot be done.. but sadly.. he is believed..  I think out of desperation to find that one person that's going to make everything wonderful again...


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## WhatInThe (Aug 26, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> It simply cant be done and even Trump knows that but there are enough stupid voters out there to put him in office.



A round up of illegals not really. But just enforcing the current laws and/or use many of the existing processes, policies and resources in place would not only make a huge dent but would act as a disincentive to many. Start with the criminals first and that includes having local law enforcement notifying ICE they have an illegal in their possession-no more sanctuary cities. It will cost some more money but not as much money or bad publicity as an actual round up. If an illegal's crime is simply illegal entry they would go to the bottom of a priority list escalating with the crimes involved in their illegal stay here.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

I don't think anyone is against criminals being deported..  I know I'm not.   What concerns me is when someone like Trump starts the "They ALL gotta go" talk..  That would mean the active hunting down and searching for every undocumented person.  That would entail asking even legal Hispanic immigrants and Hispanic American citizens for their papers.  That would be a huge violation of civil rights..   What about the occasional Italian American.. or East Indian American stopped and interrogated because they COULD be a Hispanic Illegal.   Then since many of the undocumented are Asian.. how many Asian Americans will be stopped.  It smacks of police state   and we are better than that.


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## WhatInThe (Aug 26, 2015)

Should add crime should include fraud, identity theft, fake documents, falsifying or lying on official paper work etc. The illegals committing physical or violent crime need to go first but the those illegals committing/using fraud perpetuate, enable and facilitate illegal entry and stays in the US and should get priority right behind the violent criminals.


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## BobF (Aug 26, 2015)

Been a lot of Trump bashing on this thread.   But how is your favorite one doing these days.   Not too well I think.   Hillary now has some good competition running and more lining up for the challenge.    Hard to tell who will win on either side these days.   

I never thought that Trump would end up being the leader for the right thinkers, and still don't think so.   I keep saying to wait till spring to get a better view of who is running and who seems to have the interest of the public.   Likely neither Hillary or Trump will fit those needs.

Who will it be?   I guess we will have to wait for spring to find out.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

Oh Lara, you gave a laundry list of Presidents who have cheated on their wives and stated at least Trump is not guilty of that (most disrespectful thing a man can do to his wife).  Well, here's a news flash Trump, while married to Ivana (44) played little sex games with Marla Maples for months before dumping Ivana and marrying Maples (30)


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## WhatInThe (Aug 26, 2015)

BobF said:


> Been a lot of Trump bashing on this thread.   But how is your favorite one doing these days.   Not too well I think.   Hillary now has some good competition running and more lining up for the challenge.    Hard to tell who will win on either side these days.
> 
> I never thought that Trump would end up being the leader for the right thinkers, and still don't think so.   I keep saying to wait till spring to get a better view of who is running and who seems to have the interest of the public.   Likely neither Hillary or Trump will fit those needs.
> 
> Who will it be?   I guess we will have to wait for spring to find out.



It is early but what surprises me is not only his staying power but the reaction and behavior of the cable media in particular on all channels. They report news and can and do shape it but they seem to as miffed & surprised as the political "experts". The fangs and lack of professionalism have come out on several fronts of this story, saga, phenomenon etc. The gloves have come off. If the cable media doesn't watch themselves they will be the losers because if Trump leaves so do their ratings especially after they get to see the true colors of their favorite anchor, commentator, host what ever.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Oh Lara, you gave a laundry list of Presidents who have cheated on their wives and stated at least Trump is not guilty of that (most disrespectful thing a man can do to his wife).  Well, here's a news flash Trump, while married to Ivana (44) played little sex games with Marla Maples for months before dumping Ivana and marrying Maples (30)




Oh yeah.... I remember the Marla thing..  Ivana took him for a bundle on that one..   Her comment...  "Don't get mad.... Get EVERYTHING"  lol!


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

AZJim…I never posted a list of presidents who have cheated on their wives. I remember a comment I made quite awhile ago saying that at least trump hasn't cheated on his wife like 3 former presidents..but a list? I googled your cheating rumor just now and only found hollywood gossip tabloids…but I never opened the links. Do you read that stuff??? Do you believe that stuff?

I know you all want to crucify Trump but let's stick with facts from reputable sources and keep it all on the up and up.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

I remember the whole scandal with Trump and Marla Maples..   Trump cheated on Ivana with Marla..   Left Ivana and married Marla.. and they had a child.. Then he unloaded Marla... not sure if he had this 3rd wife waiting in the wings..  But he definitely was having an affair with Marla when he was married to
Ivana.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marla_Maples




> Maples and Donald Trump began an affair in 1986 while Trump was still married to


 


> Ivana Trump. The affair was discovered by Ivana Trump in 1991, when she confronted Maples on a ski slope in Aspen, Colorado. The spat was well chronicled by the media and led to Ivana Trump filing for divorce. Maples went on to star in the Broadway production of The Will Rogers Follies, in which she played "Ziegfeld's favorite," the girlfriend of showman, Florenz Ziegfeld.[SUP][4][/SUP] In 1993, she married Donald Trump. The couple had one child, Tiffany Trump, born October 13, 1993. In 1996 and 1997 Maples hosted both the Miss U.S.A. and Miss Universe pageants.[SUP][5][/SUP] She divorced Donald Trump in 1999.




Sorry to burst your Trump bubble Lara..  Do you STILL think men who cheat are the lowest of the low.... or do you make an exception for this one?


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## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Oh Lara, you gave a laundry list of Presidents who have cheated on their wives and stated at least Trump is not guilty of that (most disrespectful thing a man can do to his wife).  Well, here's a news flash Trump, while married to Ivana (44) played little sex games with Marla Maples for months before dumping Ivana and marrying Maples (30)






 *Lara* 






                                                                                         Senior Member                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



































                                                   Join DateJul 2015LocationNorth CarolinaPosts576                                                           




 Originally Posted by *WhatInThe* 

 
                 Megyn was simply practicing "good journalism"  using loaded, prefaced, out of context questions. I remember the Rosie  feud as well. Celebrities fight differently using the public/media for a  lot of comments and remarks private citizens only use in a room in  private. Megyn will now forever be associated with that question and  post debate remarks.



The really sad thing is that the debate questions have slumped so  low that they have to get their material from gossipers on "The View"  where the Rosie/Trump feud happened. They are always bashing women on  that show so I wouldn't be surpassed if they didn't provoke him into  saying what he did. This is what turned that debate into a reality show.  

*And hey, what could be more disrespectful to a woman than to cheat on  her. The accused Trump looks like a pussycat next to the many Presidents  that have cheated on their wives like Jefferson, Harding, Eisenhower,  Lyndon Johnson, Roosevelt, Kennedy, and Clinton. I find that worse than  Trump calling Rosie O'Donnell names…that was wrong but lets put it in  perspective. *

And Megyn didn't act alone, Fox News officials approved it ahead of  time. The American people want to know what they will do for our country  (and deserve to know), not what the latest gossip is on The View.                 ​ Live in the Sunshine, Swim in the Sea, Drink the Wild Air ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson



*No!  I don't read "gossip" columns nut his divorce from Ivana was front page news at the time and his infidelity was the main event. Oh!  And what "reliable source" do you have to support your allegations against Harding, Jefferson, Eisenhower, Johnson, Roosevelt, or even Kennedy?  Let's stick to "facts", eh? *
​


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Well, GAWD knows I don't condone cheating..  But if one is going to hold it against some people... then it needs to be held against all..  even those who we agree with politically.   The Trump/Maples affair as well as his divorce from his 1st wife Ivana was very well publicized.   And he has never denied the fact.   Does that disqualify him from being president?   It depends on how those who are eager for him to be are willing to give him a pass... BUT I caution.. those same people better not even mention Bill Clinton.  To do so would be the height of hypocrisy.


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## Lara (Aug 26, 2015)

Disclaimer…the above quote in RED is AZ Jim's….not mine.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

Hey QuickSilver.........You talkin 'bout me?  You must be talkin 'bout me....What am I, a clown?  Am I funny?  Sumpin to laugh at?


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## Shirley (Aug 26, 2015)

What does his hair or his ****** prowess have to do with his ability to govern?


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Shirley said:


> What does his hair or his ****** prowess have to do with his ability to govern?



Did you feel that way when Clinton was caught?


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## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

Shirley, Shirley, Shirley.....come here....let me 'splain to you my dear girl.


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## Shirley (Aug 26, 2015)

Actually, Bill's ****** escapades didn't bother me in the least. It did bother me that he was talking to our commanding general in a war zone while he was "Involved." Do you think his mind was on the war or under the desk?


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Shirley said:


> Actually, Bill's ****** escapades didn't bother me in the least. It did bother me that he was talking to our commanding general in a war zone while he was "Involved." Do you think his mind was on the war or under the desk?



I don't know what was on his mind... do you?   The point is... Trump was as bad as or worse a cheater than Clinton.. You don't feel that would disqualify him from being president.. Do you know for sure that Trump wouldn't have a few interns under his desk in the oval office should he win?   I mean.. given his record... it could happen..  Who knows who he'll be on the phone with at the time..


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## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

Is this about Bill Clinton, my hero or Donald (the joke) Trump?


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## Shirley (Aug 26, 2015)

I don't know what was on his mind but I'm sure some of our men members could tell us. 

How about it, Jim?


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## BobF (Aug 26, 2015)

You dismiss Clinton's misbehaving but now seem to attack Trump for the same problems?   Messy conversations in this thread from first till now.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 26, 2015)

Shirl, he was a good President, knew what he was doing both on the phone and under the desk.  He had a good grasp of both issues.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> He was a good President, knew what he was doing both on the phone and under the desk.  He had a good grasp of both issues.



I'm not dismissing what Clinton did... are you Jim?   However, those that are all Trump crazy better realize that Trump could make Wild Bill look like a Boy Scout in the ****** antics department...  Sex and powerful men seem to go hand in hand.. Trump is certainly no novice in that department.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 26, 2015)

Shirley said:


> It did bother me that he was talking to our commanding general in a war zone while he was "Involved."



That bothered a lot of us Shirley, very inappropriate in the least.


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## QuickSilver (Aug 26, 2015)

Yeah... but he never left his wife and kid (s)


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## mitchezz (Aug 26, 2015)

This thread has put me off my brekkie.....it's 8 30 am where I am.

As an outsider the Mexican debate is frightening. Would Americans really want as their President a man who sets out to vilify a particular race? If Trump solves the Mexican "problem" who will next be in his sight? History is repeating itself if the ills besetting a country are seen to be the fault of one particular ethnic group. Think Europe last century.

I am not speaking from a higher moral ground as my country is also guilty of similar behaviour.


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## squatting dog (Aug 28, 2015)

wishful thinking.


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## AZ Jim (Aug 28, 2015)

squatting dog said:


> wishful thinking.View attachment 20854



Not for most of us.


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## RadishRose (Aug 28, 2015)

Rofl !!!!!


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## AZ Jim (Aug 28, 2015)




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