# Extreme old age



## Sunny (May 8, 2018)

I don't think I've ever seen this topic addressed here. I think it might provoke a valuable discussion.

Most of us are not 100 yet, or even close to it. Some may have parents or older siblings in that category. We all say we'd like to live a long life, as long as we are healthy and independent. So, what do we visualize as that life?  Realistically, most people in their late 90's or above cannot live alone any longer. So what then?

I think the people in old time China got it right, at least from the point of view of the old folks. They lived with their children and grandchildren, who took care of them until their life ended. Is that a good thing for the modern western world? How feasible is it?

Maybe the best alternatives we have are the "continuing care" communities, with independent living to start with, moving into assisted living, etc.? Yet, as an independent, active person, that doesn't really appeal to me either.  I wonder, is there really any good answer?

Sorry to be starting off the day on a downer, today's paper had several articles in the Health section about moving the frail elderly into hospice care, which started me thinking.


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## Lon (May 8, 2018)

Sunny said:


> I don't think I've ever seen this topic addressed here. I think it might provoke a valuable discussion.
> 
> Most of us are not 100 yet, or even close to it. Some may have parents or older siblings in that category. We all say we'd like to live a long life, as long as we are healthy and independent. So, what do we visualize as that life?  Realistically, most people in their late 90's or above cannot live alone any longer. So what then?
> 
> ...



Here where I live I have met and visited with three single males in their 90's----94,96,98. All three can walk with out cane or walker and live alone. Two are WW 2 Vets and the 3rd a retired airline pilot.


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## fmdog44 (May 8, 2018)

I see nothing in being alive while incapacitated. Quality of life is all that matters. My father has Alzheimer's and seeing the inside of those facilities for Alzheimer's patients was as dark and morbid as any experience in my life It could only be described as hell on Earth. I am 70 now and thankful for all of my years but I m prepared to check out if I suddenly need help to clean my self. We do it for out pets that we love because it is the right thing to do.


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## Sunny (May 9, 2018)

Lon, that's what we can all hope for!

Fmdog, I agree completely. I've visited a number of "assisted living" communities, to visit someone or to sing with a group, etc. None of them remotely appeal to me as a place to live.


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## helenbacque (May 9, 2018)

And sometimes extreme old age comes to this.  Louisiana Department of Health is sending 37,000 eviction notices to nursing home patients on Medicaid.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/09/us/louisiana-medicaid-cuts-nursing-homes-evictions/index.html


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## WhatInThe (May 9, 2018)

Saw this in the news recently. 104 year old travels from New Zealand to Switzerland to commit suicide. He said he's done, wants to be done. 

https://www.khou.com/article/news/n...land/465-668478c0-6c2c-4726-91f8-2ff53fd9ff5c

That being said quality of life issues come up. And people of all ages of to be told or learn they have to work on their health, it's not just the medical industry. That means they have to educate themselves, work on fitness and nutrition, be willing to experiment or follow doctors orders. I say that because people in their 80s and 90s can still have 'a' life that isn't agony or laborious. Yes those suffering from catastrophic won't care about life at 100. 

Reason I bring this up I know people you can tell their waiting for the end. Some are honest about it and other's aren't and don't follow doctor's orders, take their medications, work on fitness and nutrition and yet they are completely capable. I guess what I'm saying is don't waste your or other's time with ambivalence taking resources and people's time. 

There is life near the century mark but just as when young you have to work at it and want it.


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## Keesha (May 9, 2018)

I’m all for assisted suicide. I have no desire to have strangers cleaning and caring for my body especially if I don’t even know what’s happening. No! Thankfully Canada now has assisted suicide as an option. 
We do euthanize our beloved pets. It’s about time humanity has the same  rights.


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## WhatInThe (May 9, 2018)

Keesha said:


> I’m all for assisted suicide. I have no desire to have strangers cleaning and caring for my body especially if I don’t even know what’s happening. No! Thankfully Canada now has assisted suicide as an option.
> We do euthanize our beloved pets. It’s about time humanity has the same  rights.



My only thing be sure and until one is sure they need to live life including doing as much for themselves as possible. Until that actual day it should be life as normal what ever that is. I just don't want see people over dwell or ponder these decisions. People in this position also should have less reason to be dishonest and do things like refuse medications, treatments as a form of slow disguised suicide. I know several who purposely lie about taking basic medications with lame excuses when it's nothing but a matter of control and/or slow suicide. If you want to go be honest about it. Don't waste other's time and efforts helping you.


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## Keesha (May 9, 2018)

I think that’s why it’s called ‘assisted’ suicide. The person assisting is a doctor. 
Besides which, taking medicine should be my choice not somebody else’s
Anyway, depressing topic. Not something I want to contemplate at this stage in life. 
Im all about living life to the fullest everyday


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## terry123 (May 9, 2018)

Keesha said:


> I’m all for assisted suicide. I have no desire to have strangers cleaning and caring for my body especially if I don’t even know what’s happening. No! Thankfully Canada now has assisted suicide as an option.
> We do euthanize our beloved pets. It’s about time humanity has the same  rights.


 I agree!!


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## treeguy64 (May 9, 2018)

Deleted, because it was too dark.


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## LoneRogue (May 9, 2018)

As to "wanting to go" if I understand "assisted suicide" there usually are very strict guidelines as to when and in what condition it is actually available to an individual. I'm 85 and rather healthy. Living self reliant is of absolute importance for me. No problem at present. I care for 3 acres with mowing and trimming and equipment maintenance and want to keep at it as long as I can. It gives me a feeling of being of some "worth". I never think of suicide when awake but at night dreams cause some concern. I'm sure some know the details of assisted suicide and its limitations. What options are available to the "do it yourself" entuusiast in this area?


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## Aunt Bea (May 9, 2018)

LoneRogue said:


> As to "wanting to go" if I understand "assisted suicide" there usually are very strict guidelines as to when and in what condition it is actually available to an individual. I'm 85 and rather healthy. Living self reliant is of absolute importance for me. No problem at present. I care for 3 acres with mowing and trimming and equipment maintenance and want to keep at it as long as I can. It gives me a feeling of being of some "worth". I never think of suicide when awake but at night dreams cause some concern. I'm sure some know the details of assisted suicide and its limitations. *What options are available to the "do it yourself" **entuusiast** in this area?*



I wouldn't risk it!

I want a TNT Good Housekeeping approved method that is neat, painless and works the first time every time.

I don't mind paying a little extra for a one time purchase!


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## Keesha (May 9, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I wouldn't risk it!
> 
> I want a TNT Good Housekeeping approved method that is neat, painless and works the first time every time.
> 
> I don't mind paying a little extra for a one time purchase!



:roflAunt Bea.


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## jujube (May 9, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I wouldn't risk it!
> 
> I want a TNT Good Housekeeping approved method that is neat, painless and works the first time every time.
> 
> I don't mind paying a little extra for a one time purchase!



I'm with you, Aunt Bea.  

Maybe that will be the insurance policy of the future.......instead of long term care insurance policies, and as an addition to the funeral/cremation pre-paid policies, there will be an end-of-life policy that covers all the aspects of bowing out in a timely, painless, legal, and tidy manner.  I'd buy one tomorrow.


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## LoneRogue (May 9, 2018)

I live in Oregon and this is the 1st state to enact an assisted suicide arrangement. I would really be interested to learn the details of how it is handled. "...timely, painless, legal, and tidy manner" is a good way to say what an "all aspects" system should be. I would guess that "timely" may not always be allowed as per an individuals wishes.


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## Keesha (May 9, 2018)

jujube said:


> I'm with you, Aunt Bea.
> 
> Maybe that will be the insurance policy of the future.......instead of long term care insurance policies, and as an addition to the funeral/cremation pre-paid policies, there will be an end-of-life policy that covers all the aspects of bowing out in a timely, painless, legal, and tidy manner.  I'd buy one tomorrow.



Absolutely. Afterall we are soon approaching 2020. It’s about time some new options came about. We NEED changes desperately regarding this topic. 
I’d buy a policy guaranteed. Then I wouldn’t have to worry about this cause I have to admit I don’t like the idea of totally giving up all my rights and living my final years miserable with other people in charge of everything. That’s not living.


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## Catlady (May 9, 2018)

I also believe in the ''quality of life".  Who wants to live in pain or without independence or without a mind or without dignity?  My ideal would be to live like George Burns, he was doing great with body AND mind until he fell just days after his 100th birthday.  And YES, we should be allowed a safe and painless exit like we do for our pets.  I think religion plays a part in that refusal to help.  I'm thinking, I NEVER take sleeping pills, one bottle should do it when I'm ready to check out.  Carbon monoxide, too, but that could be iffy if you don't do it right, you could just end up a vegetable.  Any comments on the sleeping pills option?


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## LoneRogue (May 9, 2018)

My real questions are related to the system requiring official ok by  medical practitioners which have legal and lawsuit concerns if not done and approved precisely correct. Doctor Kevorkian, I believe, was genuinely concerned about relieving suffering persons and he was often heavily criticized for his decisions. Assisted suicide sounds so simple and wonderful but there are still regulations that may not fit what a person genuinely wants for themselves.


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## john19485 (May 9, 2018)

I plan on enough sleeping pills to put me to sleep, then some blood pressure meds to lower my blood pressure to 0


PVC said:


> I also believe in the ''quality of life".  Who wants to live in pain or without independence or without a mind or without dignity?  My ideal would be to live like George Burns, he was doing great with body AND mind until he fell just days after his 100th birthday.  And YES, we should be allowed a safe and painless exit like we do for our pets.  I think religion plays a part in that refusal to help.  I'm thinking, I NEVER take sleeping pills, one bottle should do it when I'm ready to check out.  Carbon monoxide, too, but that could be iffy if you don't do it right, you could just end up a vegetable.  Any comments on the sleeping pills option?


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## Catlady (May 9, 2018)

john19485 said:


> I plan on enough sleeping pills to put me to sleep, then some blood pressure meds to lower my blood pressure to 0



That's interesting about the BP medicine in addition to the sleeping pills.  I don't like to take medicine and don't take any except for infections (have chronic ear problems), so don't have BP medicine.  I'm assuming I can get sleeping pills over the counter and one bottle full should ensure death.  I definitely don't want bloody or violent like jumping off a cliff or guns etc.  This is certainly a morbid thread but OH, SO PRACTICAL and necessary for those of us who want death with dignity.


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## john19485 (May 9, 2018)

over the counter ones are no good, you can take the whole bottle, and your head with hurt the next morning , I already tried this , after I got home from Vietnam.





PVC said:


> That's interesting about the BP medicine in addition to the sleeping pills.  I don't like to take medicine and don't take any except for infections (have chronic ear problems), so don't have BP medicine.  I'm assuming I can get sleeping pills over the counter and one bottle full should ensure death.  I definitely don't want bloody or violent like jumping off a cliff or guns etc.  This is certainly a morbid thread but OH, SO PRACTICAL and necessary for those of us who want death with dignity.


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## SeaBreeze (May 9, 2018)

I believe that assisted suicide (death with dignity) is now legal in my state, which is a good thing.  I have nothing against checking out once you feel that it's your time to go, whether you do it 'legally' or on your own.  It is a risk doing it on your own, you have to be sure your method will be final, but you bypass all the red tape of bringing strangers into your decision, like the doctors, etc.  I still have the book that my mother in law bought when she was old and sickly, Final Exit.  In it are various techniques to end your life.

My biggest concern is Alzheimer's, where I'm on my own but no longer able to know how to function, who I am or where I am....then obviously someone will step in and take over.  I'd like to have my wits about me until the end, then I can decide for myself the quality of my life and where to go from there.


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## SeaBreeze (May 9, 2018)

LoneRogue said:


> My real questions are related to the system requiring official ok by  medical practitioners which have legal and lawsuit concerns if not done and approved precisely correct. Doctor Kevorkian, I believe, was genuinely concerned about relieving suffering persons and he was often heavily criticized for his decisions. Assisted suicide sounds so simple and wonderful but there are still regulations that may not fit what a person genuinely wants for themselves.



I think Dr. Kevorkian was genuinely caring of people, and I had no issue with what he was doing.


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## Keesha (May 9, 2018)

SeaBreeze said:


> My biggest concern is Alzheimer's, where I'm on my own but no longer able to know how to function, who I am or where I am....then obviously someone will step in and take over.  I'd like to have my wits about me until the end, then I can decide for myself the quality of my life and where to go from there.



This is my concern also. Plus my husband doesn’t share this same viewpoint and is younger than me. 
I suppose this is where a living will needs to be made. We have no children . 
Anybody else share opposite viewpoints with your significant other ? 
If so, what was your solution?


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## SeaBreeze (May 9, 2018)

We don't have any kids either Keesha, luckily we share the same views on many things, he's two years older than me.  We have old living wills, but they only address being kept alive on machines in the hospital, no mention of Alzheimers.  We have to update our old wills, something we keep putting off for now.


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## Lara (May 10, 2018)

SeaBreeze said:


> We don't have any kids either Keesha, luckily we share the same views on many things, he's two years older than me.  We have old living wills, but they only address being kept alive on machines in the hospital, no mention of Alzheimers.  We have to update our old wills, something we keep putting off for now.


This is an interesting thread. Uncomfortable but necessary to think about. What would you say in your will about Alzheimers? You don't have to answer if it's personal. I understand.


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## Sunny (May 10, 2018)

Lara, are you talking about saying something in a will, or in a living will?  I assume you mean a living will; I don't think issues such as assisted suicide even come up in a regular will, which applies only after a person is gone.

For a living will, that's an interesting question. I think they only address keeping someone alive (or not) due to physical infirmities, not Alzheimer's. From what I've read about assisted suicide, the person himself has to take the pills; the "assistance" part only comes in when the doctor provides the pills, but the actual "deed" must be done by the person, after signing papers indicating that they understood exactly what they were doing.  In the case of Alzheimer's, even in the early stages when they understood and knew what they were doing, it probably would never be legal. That's too much of a slippery slope.

So I suspect that even in those states that do permit medically assisted suicide, the Alzheimer's patients are out of luck.


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## fmdog44 (May 10, 2018)

Question for all: A person admits him/her self to a assisted living facility. What happens to a person with no family of any kind that is in a assisted living type facility and that persons money runs out? I'm sure state laws differ but I just wonder where could one go with no money and questionable competence.


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## SeaBreeze (May 10, 2018)

Lara said:


> What would you say in your will about Alzheimers? You don't have to answer if it's personal. I understand.



I haven't thought about it seriously yet, and I don't think you can legally put in a will that if you develop Alzheimer's and are no longer able to care for yourself that you can be euthanized.  But, you can probably put in writing that you don't want any Alzheimer's medications or ongoing care and feedings....then you will die sooner, but it won't be so peaceful as assisted suicide.  Perhaps you can only request morphine to dull the pain of starvation?  I have no idea.

I've read that some Alzheimer's patients have already attempted to commit suicide on their own, but weren't always successful in completing the task.


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## SeaBreeze (May 10, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> Question for all: A person admits him/her self to a assisted living facility. What happens to a person with no family of any kind that is in a assisted living type facility and that persons money runs out? I'm sure state laws differ but I just wonder where could one go with no money and questionable competence.



Good question.  Maybe they get put into a state run nursing home?


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## Sunny (May 10, 2018)

I don't know about assisted living facilities, but I do know that a nursing home patient in this country would go on Medicaid. Their care would be completely covered, as soon as their net worth went down to something like $2000. (Their home doesn't count in that estimation.)  

Not all nursing homes accept Medicaid patients, so they might have to be moved to one that does.


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## helenbacque (May 10, 2018)

fmdog44 said:


> Question for all: A person admits him/her self to a assisted living facility. What happens to a person with no family of any kind that is in a assisted living type facility and that persons money runs out? I'm sure state laws differ but I just wonder where could one go with no money and questionable competence.



Medicaid which is health care for low income that is funded by federal government but administered by states steps in but even that has pitfalls.  See this latest from Louisiana:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/09/us/louisiana-medicaid-cuts-nursing-homes-evictions/index.html


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## Catlady (May 10, 2018)

SeaBreeze ~  "Perhaps you can only request morphine to dull the pain of starvation?"

I have done 3 day fast diets and the only time I had pains was the first day, after that it is just a craving for food.   It could be different with others.   In long term starvation, you just keep getting dizzy and weaker and weaker.  Anne Frank also said the same thing.  My fast diet is to lose some weight (5-6 lbs) but mainly to clean my system of toxins, it takes 3 days to do that.


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## SeaBreeze (May 10, 2018)

Yes PVC, I've also done fasts for several days in the past for the same reasons, and never had pain at all, but I was healthy and it was only 3 days.  You're right though, the pain is not from starvation itself, but other processes going on.  My aunt from my mother's side died in a nursing home from Alzheimer's, I was young, don't know all the details.  More here.  



> With the impaired ability to move, a person in the late-stage of dementia is at risk for a number of medical complications like an infection of the urinary tract  and pneumonia (an infection of the lung). Difficulty swallowing, eating  and drinking leads to weight loss, dehydration, and malnutrition which  further increases their vulnerability to infection.
> 
> In the end,  most people with late-stage dementia die of a medical complication  related to their underlying dementia. For instance, a person may die  from an infection like aspiration pneumonia, which occurs as a result of  swallowing difficulties, or a person may die from a blood clot in the  lung as a result of being immobile and bedbound.
> 
> ...


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## hollydolly (May 10, 2018)

Update on the 104 year old scientist...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...04-end-life-Swiss-suicide-clinic-morning.html


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## jujube (May 10, 2018)

I don't know if it still happens, but the Netherlands used to offer assisted euthanasia, if the person was judged terminal by a group of doctors.  The patient was given what was called a "mercy cocktail" that would allow the patient to drift off to sleep and in a short amount of time, breathing would stop.  

This could be done in a hospice-like situation or at home.  Family could be around to be with the patient as he left life.  

My father had a DNR and died in the hospital.  I was in the bed on one side, my mother was on the other and we had him in our arms as he struggled to breath and then gave up.  How much better it would have been for him if he could have slipped off peacefully without the alarms screaming and all the ICU noises and people bustling around.  The whole family could have been there to say goodbye to him if his death could have been "planned".


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## Lara (May 10, 2018)

jujube, that is a very powerful post in favor of assisted euthanasia for someone judged to be 
terminal by doctors. Very touching. I agree with you for a person in that state of health.

There is a lot to be said for a peaceful exit at that point in one's life.


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## LoneRogue (May 10, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Absolutely. Afterall we are soon approaching 2020. It’s about time some new options came about. We NEED changes desperately regarding this topic.
> I’d buy a policy guaranteed. Then I wouldn’t have to worry about this cause I have to admit I don’t like the idea of totally giving up all my rights and living my final years miserable with other people in charge of everything. That’s not living.



A problem [h=3]Veteran Pictures.[/h]I think with any assisted suicide program the problem is that the things so many of us don't want to have happen, like spending time unable to care for ourselves would be required before a physician or committee of physicians sign off that we are now beyond the possibility medical help. 

Please correct me if I missunderstand this, as I might,  but the systems I've heard about take the decision as to when this will be done away from the patient and into the hands of others. All the things that may concern us may be allowed to be done regardless of what we wanted when we were of sound mind.


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## Sunny (May 10, 2018)

Holly, what an inspiring story.


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## Keesha (May 10, 2018)

LoneRogue said:


> A problem *Veteran Pictures.*
> 
> I think with any assisted suicide program the problem is that the things so many of us don't want to have happen, like spending time unable to care for ourselves would be required before a physician or committee of physicians sign off that we are now beyond the possibility medical help.
> 
> Please correct me if I missunderstand this, as I might,  but the systems I've heard about take the decision as to when this will be done away from the patient and into the hands of others. All the things that may concern us may be allowed to be done regardless of what we wanted when we were of sound mind.



Then you make the decision yourself. 

I have no desire to leave this solely the responsibility of someone else 
No way!
No how!


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## Manatee (May 10, 2018)

In a discussion the other day most agreed that shooting yourself was a terrible thing to do to the person who has to deal with the aftermath.


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## LoneRogue (May 10, 2018)

It does not have to be a horrible mess.


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## Catlady (May 10, 2018)

LoneRogue said:


> like spending time unable to care for ourselves would be required before a physician or committee of physicians sign off that we are now beyond the possibility medical help. ~  take the decision as to when this will be done away from the patient and into the hands of others. All the things that may concern us may be allowed to be done regardless of what we wanted when we were of sound mind.



I agree, LoneRogue.  Even if it is legal, it all becomes very complicated and time consuming and expensive.  Like the 104 year old botanist.  I was shocked when article said when he was unable to move wheelchair to get the drug moving through his veins, they had to re-ask the many questions from him before they injected the drug into his tube.  I can understand the fear of being sued for murder, but geez so many technicalities.  The guy was there to be euthanized, must have signed tons of paperwork already to have the deed done.  And he WANTED to die and at 104 he had the right to.  Must we have a TEAM of doctors declare that we are beyond medical help, and as you said, that will be way after we've already reached the end of our dignity. 

 I knew two fairly young men, in their 40's, who put a gun inside their mouth and shot themselves, two separate occasions.  Nothing to do with health or old age, just desperation/depression.  I felt sorry for their individual mothers who found them.  I would like very much if the ''mercy cocktail'' that Jujube spoke about were available, but there would be reams of paperwork to get such a drug.  There will always be people using that drug for the wrong reasons (murder one of them), that's one of the reasons the law is slow to provide the legality.  The other reason is the social and/or the religious stigma (only god has the right to take your life).  I am not religious and believe that since I did not have the right to refuse to be born, I should have the right to decide when and how to die.


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## hollydolly (May 11, 2018)

It really is Sunny isn't it?...but I'm so heartbroken  that people have to travel hundreds , nay thousands of miles when they are so sick, just to end their own lives. Their OWN !!!...


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## hearlady (May 11, 2018)

The problem is the older you get and the less mobile the harder it is to end it yourself.
In countries where the family always takes care of their parents at home, I wonder how this is handled.
I mean when they get very ill or in a lot of pain.


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## treeguy64 (May 11, 2018)

I know how I'm going to go, accidents notwithstanding.  I don't like the "feel" of assisted suicide.  I don't want some stranger doing anything to help me end my life, in some clinical setting.  That just creeps me out.  If things go my way, I'll bow out, my way.  Also, the thought of dying "surrounded by friends and family," creeps me out, even more.  I think dogs and cats have the right idea:  Seek out an isolated, dark, comfortable place, and meet death in that location.


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## hearlady (May 11, 2018)

treeguy64 said:


> I know how I'm going to go, accidents notwithstanding.  I don't like the "feel" of assisted suicide.  I don't want some stranger doing anything to help me end my life, in some clinical setting.  That just creeps me out.  If things go my way, I'll bow out, my way.  Also, the thought of dying "surrounded by friends and family," creeps me out, even more.  I think dogs and cats have the right idea:  Seek out an isolated, dark, comfortable place, and meet death in that location.


YES, I had thought of that earlier about animals. I agree with your whole post treeguy.


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## Keesha (May 11, 2018)

hearlady said:


> YES, I had thought of that earlier about animals. I agree with your whole post treeguy.



Yep! Me too!


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## Sunny (May 11, 2018)

When I read obituary notices that often say "died surrounded by his/her loving family," I always get a bit skeptical. It sounds like patients' rooms in hospitals and nursing homes are filled with loving, caring relatives, providing emotional support up to the patient's peaceful last breath.  From what I've observed in both kinds of places, that is not really the norm. Most patients seem to be alone, in a drug-induced sleep. Where are all those loving relatives?

Of course if they die at home, that's probably more likely.


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## LoneRogue (May 11, 2018)

I agree.


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## Catlady (May 11, 2018)

treeguy64 said:


> I know how I'm going to go, accidents notwithstanding.  I don't like the "feel" of assisted suicide.  I don't want some stranger doing anything to help me end my life, in some clinical setting.  That just creeps me out.  If things go my way, I'll bow out, my way.  Also, the thought of dying "surrounded by friends and family," creeps me out, even more.  I think dogs and cats have the right idea:  *Seek out an isolated, dark, comfortable place, and meet death in that locatio*n.



I agree with you.  It sounds like the ideal way to go, especially to me since I'm basically a loner anyway.  I once had a cat that was very sick and the vet told me to prevent it from going and staying under the bed because then it would give up and die.  He said wild animals do that, find a dark and safe place, to avoid predators and have time to heal or die.


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## WhatInThe (May 11, 2018)

Sunny said:


> When I read obituary notices that often say "died surrounded by his/her loving family," I always get a bit skeptical. It sounds like patients' rooms in hospitals and nursing homes are filled with loving, caring relatives, providing emotional support up to the patient's peaceful last breath.  From what I've observed in both kinds of places, that is not really the norm. Most patients seem to be alone, in a drug-induced sleep. Where are all those loving relatives?
> 
> Of course if they die at home, that's probably more likely.



If those 'loving' families had spent more time in the hospital or dr's office with their loved one while they were actually being treated there probably wouldn't be a need  for 'the final day'.


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## LoneRogue (May 11, 2018)

It may just be me but in so many of the responses to this thread I feel most are seeking an independent and alone end to life. Seems so personal as I myself would wish.


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## john19485 (May 11, 2018)

Just got home from burying a friend, last night we went to the wake, he died at home with his family, he was 62, always was writing that novel , excuse me, I just feel sad today.


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## Kadee (May 11, 2018)

This  104 year old Australian scientist apparently didn’t have any major illness he was simply sick of “living “  
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-...in-a-powerful-statement-on-euthanasia/9742528
so he traveled to Switzerland to end his life by assisted suicide 
He furfilled his wish a few days ago ,sad but it was his wish to end his life


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## WhatInThe (May 18, 2018)

One of the issues I noticed around me is many seniors health issues are the easy part. It's being confronted with their children's issues wether it be health, financial or social. That includes their children getting hooked on drugs or alcohol, getting terminal diseases like cancer, have job and financial issues. Longer life spans means a greater chance of having to deal with issues they could've been shielded from or eluded decades ago. I know one is just coming to terms there are addicts, alcoholics and soap opera issue plagued family members. 

Before if their children had 2.2 kids, a house, picket fence and dog they could call it a life. Now with longer life spans they get see their adult children & family suffer health issues/disease, go through things like addiction, job loss, bankruptcy, criminal behavior etc. That's the tough part for many, it's not just their life/health.


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## JaniceM (May 19, 2018)

Sunny said:


> When I read obituary notices that often say "died surrounded by his/her loving family," I always get a bit skeptical. It sounds like patients' rooms in hospitals and nursing homes are filled with loving, caring relatives, providing emotional support up to the patient's peaceful last breath.  From what I've observed in both kinds of places, that is not really the norm. Most patients seem to be alone, in a drug-induced sleep. Where are all those loving relatives?
> 
> Of course if they die at home, that's probably more likely.



I believe obits should be kind, but truthful.  Some I've seen in recent years- of people I knew- were absolute malarky.


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## justfred (May 23, 2018)

Hi There 
I am in my ninety first year and have no intentions of giving up yet. What irritates me is all the 'advice' that is given to we older generation by the press and TV. I don,t know if you get the same over there but it really gets to me when they tell us we should eat this, we should not eat that, we should drink this, we should drink that, we should not do this, we should do that.
I eat what I like, I drink what I like and I more or less do what I want, where I want. I still go for long walks using just a plain old walking stick and am in reasonably good health. I did have a massive heart attack about a year ago but does it bother me? Not one little bit. I am enjoying life and intend to do so till I draw my last breath.


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## Shalimar (May 23, 2018)

justfred said:


> Hi There
> I am in my ninety first year and have no intentions of giving up yet. What irritates me is all the 'advice' that is given to we older generation by the press and TV. I don,t know if you get the same over there but it really gets to me when they tell us we should eat this, we should not eat that, we should drink this, we should drink that, we should not do this, we should do that.
> I eat what I like, I drink what I like and I more or less do what I want, where I want. I still go for long walks using just a plain old walking stick and am in reasonably good health. I did have a massive heart attack about a year ago but does it bother me? Not one little bit. I am enjoying life and intend to do so till I draw my last breath.


You are an inspiration.


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## SilentSoul (Nov 2, 2020)

Sunny said:


> I don't think I've ever seen this topic addressed here. I think it might provoke a valuable discussion.
> 
> Most of us are not 100 yet, or even close to it. Some may have parents or older siblings in that category. We all say we'd like to live a long life, as long as we are healthy and independent. So, what do we visualize as that life?  Realistically, most people in their late 90's or above cannot live alone any longer. So what then?
> 
> ...


_I think that would be a more dignified way to live if family members could manage it financially. However, on the other hand, how many Americans do you know who have any interest in the care of their elders beyond dropping them off at the nearest nursing home and leaving them there to die?_


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## Autumn (Nov 2, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Plus my husband doesn’t share this same viewpoint and is younger than me.
> I suppose this is where a living will needs to be made. We have no children .
> Anybody else share opposite viewpoints with your significant other ?
> If so, what was your solution?


My husband passed away and I don't have children.  My sister, 6 1/2 years younger than I, is the only one I have.  She's now my Medical Proxy, and she feels the way your husband does.  I can't find a solution because she won't even discuss the topic.  My thought is to have enough medication hidden away to take matters into my own hands.


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## Robert59 (Nov 2, 2020)

Myself I've never been married and have no children. I take care of this Bi-polar lady that keeps me wanting to live.


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## SilentSoul (Nov 2, 2020)

_I've read through all these posts. Very powerful. Well written. I would not want to be surrounded by family and have them watching the horror show of my death. I also wouldn't want medical professionals making any decisions for me. If I could find a way to quietly leave this earth and still be granted access into heaven, I would likely do that. I have health issues that are going to make my death a struggle. If it gets bad I want an out. _


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## Giantsfan1954 (Nov 2, 2020)

Folks, it’s done everyday in hospice, nursing homes and hospitals to terminal patients, just up the morphine, at high doses it impacts the respiratory system and you just don’t breathe.
Aside from being a CNA, I had to sign for my husband to be put on a morphine drip instead of shots, knew the reason and the outcome.


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## chic (Nov 3, 2020)

Where is Sunny? I haven't noticed her around lately.


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## hollydolly (Nov 3, 2020)

chic said:


> Where is Sunny? I haven't noticed her around lately.


I noticed that too Chic, and each time she goes missing I mail her and find out what's wrong.. but I haven't this time, I don't want to become a pest


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## Lewkat (Nov 3, 2020)

I am 87.  I do live in an assisted living and there are varying levels of cognizance here.  I moved here 13 years ago when I was getting over a serious health issue and having issues with my son and now deceased daughter in law.  If I'd stayed at home, my aid was useless and I went through 6 of them before I decided to move here.  At first it was fine, but over the years, I have seen indifferent administrations take over.  The service has decidedly degraded to indifference.  The food is a disgrace.  I take care of my own nutritional needs most of the time as I am independent.  As time has marched on, I've had physical problems and not mental  ones.  As for assisted suicide.  That is a personal preference and for me a no no.


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## Pepper (Nov 3, 2020)

hollydolly said:


> *I don't want to become a pest*


*NEVER!*


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## CinnamonSugar (Nov 3, 2020)

Giantsfan1954 said:


> Folks, it’s done everyday in hospice, nursing homes and hospitals to terminal patients, just up the morphine, at high doses it impacts the respiratory system and you just don’t breathe.
> Aside from being a CNA, I had to sign for my husband to be put on a morphine drip instead of shots, knew the reason and the outcome.




@Giantsfan1954, I'm sorry you had to go through making those hard choices about your husband.  Never easy, especially for someone you love.

May I just add my two cents as a hospice nurse of 14 years?  In the hospices I've worked in, Morphine (either liquid under the tongue or--if the patient's symptoms cannot be managed at home-- via IV in the hospital) is given for two main reasons:  to manage pain and to relieve respiratory distress (morphine relaxes the lungs' airways).  The patient has usually reached the point in the process of dying where they cannot swallow pills anymore. Granted, a side effect of too much Morphine can be respiratory suppression but hospice's objective is the manage the symptoms as the body goes through the natural process of shutting down; we are not there to hasten the process, only to keep them comfortable.


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## chic (Nov 3, 2020)

hollydolly said:


> I noticed that too Chic, and each time she goes missing I mail her and find out what's wrong.. but I haven't this time, I don't want to become a pest



I understand. It's just strange that she hasn't been posting for awhile. Probably all is well, but we do worry about each other when someone goes missing for a spell.


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## Becky1951 (Nov 3, 2020)

chic said:


> Where is Sunny? I haven't noticed her around lately.



It looks like the last time she posted was Oct 26th.


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## hollydolly (Nov 3, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> It looks like the last time she posted was Oct 26th.


yep so just over a week.. so perhaps this time I'll give her another few days before checking on her. I'm sure if something was up, she would have mailed me by now if she could


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## hollydolly (Nov 4, 2020)

Just to let @chic  and  the folks  who are concerned about @Sunny , that she's seem to be well,  but she's posting on another forum, where she's enjoying discussions about the election...


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## Lewkat (Nov 4, 2020)

CinnamonSugar said:


> @Giantsfan1954, I'm sorry you had to go through making those hard choices about your husband.  Never easy, especially for someone you love.
> 
> May I just add my two cents as a hospice nurse of 14 years?  In the hospices I've worked in, Morphine (either liquid under the tongue or--if the patient's symptoms cannot be managed at home-- via IV in the hospital) is given for two main reasons:  to manage pain and to relieve respiratory distress (morphine relaxes the lungs' airways).  The patient has usually reached the point in the process of dying where they cannot swallow pills anymore. Granted, a side effect of too much Morphine can be respiratory suppression but hospice's objective is the manage the symptoms as the body goes through the natural process of shutting down; we are not there to hasten the process, only to keep them comfortable.


Morphine was given to me post-op and I nearly died.  Talk about respiratory suppression.  Never again.  I am leery of any kind of analgesia beyond an aspirin these days.  I used to dispense morphine like there was no tomorrow and never saw a reaction like I had.  I must be very sensitive.  I am difficult to anesthetize for any length of time as well.  I've awakened too soon during surgery.


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## Shalimar (Nov 4, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> Morphine was given to me post-op and I nearly died.  Talk about respiratory suppression.  Never again.  I am leery of any kind of analgesia beyond an aspirin these days.  I used to dispense morphine like there was no tomorrow and never saw a reaction like I had.  I must be very sensitive.  I am difficult to anesthetize for any length of time as well.  I've awakened too soon during surgery.


By any chance, are you a redhead? We are difficult to anaesthetise, and often have unpredictable reactions to meds. This increases with age.


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## MarciKS (Nov 4, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> By any chance, are you a redhead? We are difficult to anaesthetise, and often have unpredictable reactions to meds. This increases with age.


What if you were born with red hair and it turned into light brown later? LOL


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## Shalimar (Nov 5, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> What if you were born with red hair and it turned into light brown later? LOL


I think you dodged the bullet there


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## Ken N Tx (Nov 5, 2020)

My MIL..


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## Shalimar (Nov 5, 2020)

Ken N Tx said:


> My MIL..
> View attachment 132013


Ohh, how wonderful, Ken!


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## MarciKS (Nov 5, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> I think you dodged the bullet there


I don't know. I have the same attributes listed.


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## Shalimar (Nov 5, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I don't know. I have the same attributes listed.


Ohh, I am sorry, I did not realise that. I would never mock you
 some people have sensitivities with meds not linked to hair colour. My mother was very dark, yet she had allergic or sensitive reactions to most meds. Funny, she could drink copious amounts of 

scotch on an empty stomach without getting very drunk. Never had a hangover. She wasn’t a heavy drinker, but at parties she had fun. Have you spoken to a medical professional about your concerns?


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## MarciKS (Nov 5, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> Ohh, I am sorry, I did not realise that. I would never mock you
> some people have sensitivities with meds not linked to hair colour. My mother was very dark, yet she had allergic or sensitive reactions to most meds. Funny, she could drink copious amounts of
> 
> scotch on an empty stomach without getting very drunk. Never had a hangover. She wasn’t a heavy drinker, but at parties she had fun. Have you spoken to a medical professional about your concerns?


I know you weren't mocking me it's ok.  They know I'm tough to put under and that I'm allergic to almost every med on the planet. You should see their faces when they see my list. It's funny.


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## MarciKS (Nov 5, 2020)

Ken N Tx said:


> My MIL..
> View attachment 132013


Is that a Barbie cake next to her????????? *Looks real hard*


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## Ken N Tx (Nov 6, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Is that a Barbie cake next to her????????? *Looks real hard*


Yes it is...


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