# Columbus Day is coming - The truth about Christopher Columbus



## Alligatorob (Sep 28, 2021)

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p08j...qKE5P_km9Pjer4Z7c9UP8etecOiCMjFQo_tPJ4IGrvrUi ​Kind of interesting how we attribute major turning points in history to single individuals.  I suspect that had Columbus never existed America would have been "discovered" by someone else not long afterwards and with similar results.  And Columbus was not the first European to get here, he just gets the credit.

The story in the link above is interesting, one of may stories of who Columbus really was.  I had a friend who lived in Genova, Italy, a short distance from a memorial marking the grave of Columbus, as my friend put it, one of Columbus' many burial places...


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## Gaer (Sep 28, 2021)

Twas Leifr Eiriksson, strong, handsome, wise, courageous, the Norse Viking; long before Columbus.
Why is he given no merit?


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## Alligatorob (Sep 28, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Twas Leifr Eiriksson, strong, handsome, wise, courageous, the Norse Viking; long before Columbas.
> Why is he given no merit?


No Norse conquistadors?

You know we kind of do the same thing with the Pilgrims and Thanksgiving.  They were not the first, Jamestown was before them, and St Augustine well before Jamestown.  But the Pilgrims seem to get a lot of the credit.


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 28, 2021)

Chris is a controversial topic in my city.  Many people are demanding that his statue be torn down or relocated to private property.

I’m among those that would like it to remain with a historically accurate storyboard added to the park.

This statue is significant because the money used to erect it came from small donations by the Italian immigrants as a gift to the city.  It was the first public symbol of the Italian American community in our city.

_Everybody hates Chris!  _


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## Pepper (Sep 28, 2021)

I have no link but a few years ago on PBS, it was discovered by digging up Chris' brother, that the Colombo family was Spanish, not Italian.  Never heard another thing about that, but it would be amusing if it were true!


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## Packerjohn (Sep 28, 2021)

If we tear down all our history; we will become a nation with no history except what the politically correct tell us is our history.  We will then only know what the politically correct allow us to believe was & is our history.  Sort of reminds me of the Nazis burning books or the communists praising Lenin, Moe or whoever.  History is history!  The good, the bad and the ugly.  Destroying the bad and the ugly and only allowing the good makes us all live a lie.  I hope not to live long enough to see my country with no history except the politically correct one.  I don't know why the public is so afraid of the politically correct.  We will soon enter a period of dictatorship by them if no one speaks up.


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## Don M. (Sep 28, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> If we tear down all our history; we will become a nation with no history except what the politically correct tell us is our history.


 For Sure!  There have been major "screwups" throughout history....All Nations/All Races, etc.  Denying and erasing those events helps insure that History Will repeat itself.  Being "politically correct" accomplishes little other than to make some people think that they are "superior".


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## Pepper (Sep 28, 2021)

Where is anyone lying about C. Columbus?  Indigenous people merely claim he's not the pure hero he is painted to be.  No one is erasing him, just telling the *truth* about the many natives who got sick, died, and were enslaved by him.  He's a hero for that minority race, white people.


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## Gaer (Sep 28, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> If we tear down all our history; we will become a nation with no history except what the politically correct tell us is our history.  We will then only know what the politically correct allow us to believe was & is our history.  Sort of reminds me of the Nazis burning books or the communists praising Lenin, Moe or whoever.  History is history!  The good, the bad and the ugly.  Destroying the bad and the ugly and only allowing the good makes us all live a lie.  I hope not to live long enough to see my country with no history except the politically correct one.  I don't know why the public is so afraid of the politically correct.  We will soon enter a period of dictatorship by them if no one speaks up.


I agree with you completely; except the myth about Columbus is not true!  it was the Norsemen who discovered America; not Columbus.
Truth must be upheld but this "truth" was but a lie!    Still, his statue should be upheld because he did sail to America which was quite a feat.
I feel the same as you about the abolishment of true history!


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## John cycling (Sep 28, 2021)

*National Indigenous People's Day** <-- the essay.* 

"All of the information in this essay came from A People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn, and Lies My Teacher Told Me, by James W. Loewen, both of which uses primary sources such as eyewitness accounts, journal entries, and letters from Christopher Columbus himself."


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## feywon (Sep 28, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Twas Leifr Eiriksson, strong, handsome, wise, courageous, the Norse Viking; long before Columbus.
> Why is he given no merit?


Because they subjugate the folks already here, and claim the land.

*EDIT*: 
Meant to put  the word   "didn't"  between they and subjugate in sentence above.  Tired,  brought two loads of firewood (i use a 40 gallon trash can strapped to a dolly to haul the loads in from outside storage) and cleaned the ash from stove. Sorry.


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## RadishRose (Sep 28, 2021)

Pepper said:


> family was Spanish, not Italian.


Alligatorobs link speaks to that.....in a way. I think Portugese.


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## Gaer (Sep 28, 2021)

feywon said:


> Because they subjugate the folks already here, and claim the land.


Ah!  Even a wider view!  And think of all the cultures that existed  and died out over the billions of linear time of the existence of Earth!


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## Irwin (Sep 28, 2021)

In fourteen hundred ninety-two​Columbus sailed the ocean blue.​​He had three ships and left from Spain;​He sailed through sunshine, wind and rain.​
He set out looking for a new route to India, and wound up in... the Bahamas?   

His explorations were funded by Spain, who also during 1492, issued the Alhambra Decree — an order that expelled any non-Christians from Spain. It was part of the Spanish Inquisition in which Spain murdered 1,000s of Jews and Muslims. Many Jews fled to Italy.


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## senior chef (Sep 28, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> If we tear down all our history; we will become a nation with no history except what the politically correct tell us is our history.  We will then only know what the politically correct allow us to believe was & is our history.  Sort of reminds me of the Nazis burning books or the communists praising Lenin, Moe or whoever.  History is history!  The good, the bad and the ugly.  Destroying the bad and the ugly and only allowing the good makes us all live a lie.  I hope not to live long enough to see my country with no history except the politically correct one.  I don't know why the public is so afraid of the politically correct.  We will soon enter a period of dictatorship by them if no one speaks up.


Well said, Packerjohn. If we judge all ancient peoples by todays standards, and tear down their statues, there would ne no history left.

Gaer is absolutely correct. The Norsemen were the first to reach North America. Archaeologists have uncovered many of their settlements.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 28, 2021)

This has to be one of our, the US's, most controversial holidays.  I think celebrating it only became a big deal after the US Civil War when folks were trying to find things to make the country feel united.  Other holidays, like Thanksgiving, maybe the same.  The first four federal holidays were not recognized until 1870, New Year's, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas in 1880 George Washington's birthday was added.  At first this was just for the District of Columbia.


Aunt Bea said:


> It was the first public symbol of the Italian American community in our city.


Interesting that many now believe Columbus wasn't Italian!  And even if he was from Genoa he would not have thought of himself as Italian...


Packerjohn said:


> If we tear down all our history; we will become a nation with no history


I agree, leave the monuments in place, but add to them.  One of my favorite examples was the "Battle of Liberty Place Monument" in New Orleans, it was often called the monument to white supremacy.  An 1890's monument to the end of reconstruction and the return of Jim Crow, the inscription read, in part:

"_McEnery and Penn having been elected governor and lieutenant-governor by the white people, were duly installed by this overthrow of carpetbag government, ousting the usurpers, Governor Kellogg (white) and Lieutenant-Governor Antoine (colored). United States troops took over the state government and reinstated the usurpers but the national election of November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us our state_."

When I was a student at LSU in the 70s the monument still stood, and was a focal point of civil rights and anti-racist gatherings.  I have pictures of Black Panthers making the black power sign on it.  Seemed to me to be serving a reasonable purpose, I think it was a good learning tool, showing people how bad things had once been.  Its long gone now, a victim of political correctness.  In my mind not a good thing...  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Liberty_Place_Monument 

I agree, our history should not be forgotten, good or bad.  However I am not sure Columbus should get a federal holiday.


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## senior chef (Sep 28, 2021)

It is strange indeed, that the Native Americans who who condemn Christopher Columbus, go absolutely ballistic when archaeologists write about the cannibalism of the Aztecs. Seems that political correctness is a one-way street.


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 28, 2021)

Many Native American tribes enthusiastically practiced slavery, torture and cannibalism.  They waged war and captured territory. Read about how the Iroquois treated their captives.  The Sioux wound up on the Plains because they were pushed out of the woodlands by other tribes.  The Aztecs championed human sacrifice.   It's not a question of "evil" whites and/or Europeans versus innocent natives, it's a question of who had the better weapons (steel versus stone) and the greater resistance to certain pathogens.


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## Tish (Sep 28, 2021)

How fascinating, I cant wait for the DNA results.
@Alligatorob please keep us up to date on this, and thank you so much for sharing this historical gem.


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## Lara (Sep 28, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Twas Leifr Eiriksson, strong, handsome, wise, courageous, the Norse Viking; long before Columbus.
> Why is he given no merit?


Because Columbus is an easier name to spell and say...and one-namers seem to appeal to the masses.
I'm half serious but think about it. Madonna, Prince, Oprah, Sinbad, Columbus....and Liefr Eririksson??
Now that doesn't look right...shoot, I can't spell it even.


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## Buckeye (Sep 28, 2021)

Mormons thinks that Lief Erikson and Columbus were late comers to America.  

Book of Mormon


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## Alligatorob (Sep 28, 2021)

Lara said:


> Because Columbus is an easier name to spell and say...and one-namers seem to appeal to the masses.
> I'm half serious but think about it. Madonna, Prince, Oprah, Sinbad, Columbus....and Liefr Eririksson??


Hey my middle name is Eric, my parents tell me I was named for Eric the Red and Lief!  I'd support an Eric or Lief day!

Good point, though we probably should call him "Cristoforo Colombo"


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## Packerjohn (Sep 29, 2021)

Gaer said:


> I agree with you completely; except the myth about Columbus is not true!  it was the Norsemen who discovered America; not Columbus.
> Truth must be upheld but this "truth" was but a lie!    Still, his statue should be upheld because he did sail to America which was quite a feat.
> I feel the same as you about the abolishment of true history!


It's true that the Vikings came to North America around 1,000 AD.  However, old Chris in 1492 started the Europeans coming over here.  The French/English to North America and the Spanish/Portuguese to the south.  About who "discovered" North American is a very academic question.


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## oldiebutgoody (Oct 3, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Where is anyone lying about C. Columbus?  Indigenous people merely claim he's not the pure hero he is painted to be.  No one is erasing him, just telling the *truth* about the many natives who got sick, died, and were enslaved by him.  He's a hero for that minority race, white people.


 

Bingo.  Imagine if someone put up a statue for Hitler and another for Mussolini. It would cause shock and outrage.  Honoring Columbus is tantamount to honoring those genocidal criminals. That's not being politically correct - it is just saying the truth.


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## Gary O' (Oct 3, 2021)

Columbus Day is coming - The truth about Christopher Columbus​
This thread so reminds me of a poster I created in another life;


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## Alligatorob (Oct 4, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Imagine if someone put up a statue for Hitler and another for Mussolini. It would cause shock and outrage. Honoring Columbus is tantamount to honoring those genocidal criminals.


I don't consider Columbus a hero and would not want another statue honoring him, and favor ending the holiday.  While we all seem to agree that he did not "discover" America he is a convenient representative of an important milestone in history, the beginning of European exploitation and settlement of the Americas, and all that brought with it.  An important fact of history to be taught, studied, and remembered.

However I also don't see him in the same light as Hitler and Mussolini.  Columbus did not know he was carrying diseases or have any idea what that would mean for the inhabitants of the Americas.  And his treatment of the Indians he came across while awful by today's standards was not out of line with the standards of his day.  

Hitler in particular intentionally tried to wipe out a whole community of people and started a world war that killed tens of millions.  Something out of line with the standards of his time, he was a special and unique evil.  Hitler and Mussolini are also important facts of history - we should not forget, or deny.


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## oldiebutgoody (Oct 4, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> I don't consider Columbus a hero and would not want another statue honoring him





Columbus was in the same league as Hitler as shown in the writings of Father De Las Casas who witness all the atrocities he committed:

Columbus Day? True Legacy: Cruelty and Slavery | HuffPost
Columbus and Genocide | AMERICAN HERITAGE


   He went from island to island doing precisely the same, just like Hitler did in Europe. I could easily give you  100 links like these.


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## OneEyedDiva (Oct 12, 2021)

I asked my honorary daughter why she was off Monday and she said because it's *Indigenous People's Day*, reminding me it was called Columbus Day. Since I'm not working, I forgot it was a holiday. I was *glad it was renamed.* CC and his men did terrible things to the indigenous people. I was going to mention Howard Zinn's book @John cycling...you beat me to it. I don't think anybody here would be too keen on someone they invited to dine with them and stay in their house, commandeering that home, then telling people it's theirs. They "discovered" your house, but you already lived there. OMG...the lies we were taught in school !!


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