# Paris under attack - multiple terrorist attacks on Friday night



## fureverywhere (Nov 13, 2015)

*Paris is Burning*

Details are unclear right now...who is responsible, how many casualties, time to turn off the news.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 13, 2015)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34814203

Latest count 40 dead.  About 100 hostages.  Bombs.  Guns.  4 or more locations.


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## Meringue (Nov 13, 2015)

On Sky News Here uk it says around 60 dead & 100 hostages held in a concert hall.  Unimaginable terror and carnage.  Heaven help the French.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 13, 2015)

French president was attending a football match and there was an explosion there as well.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 13, 2015)

Horrible.... My guess revenge for the killing of Jihadi John?    France didn't do it.. We did...


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## Ameriscot (Nov 13, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Horrible.... My guess revenge for the killing of Jihadi John?    France didn't do it.. We did...



Possibly.  I know MI5 in the UK is worried about revenge here for Jihadi John. Doesn't matter if US did it - we are all allies.


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## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2015)

Sixty people are dead and 100 have been taken hostage in a night of terrorism.
It is an ingoing situation.



> *Paris terror attacks: 60 people feared dead, 100 taken hostage*
> 
> ** At least 60 people dead - AFP
> * 100 Hostages taken at concert hall, 15 of those have been killed
> ...


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## Pappy (Nov 13, 2015)

A terrible, cowardly attack. I am watching our national news right now. I hope the hostages get out of this alive.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 13, 2015)

Just heard they are killing the hostages one by one....  OMG... are they beheading them???


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## Pappy (Nov 13, 2015)

France just closed its borders. First time since WW2.


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## AZ Jim (Nov 13, 2015)

We cannot allow someone like "Jihadi John" to continue to kill innocents to avoid revenge acts wherever they occur. These crazy bastards require no reason to kill it seems.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 13, 2015)

I have just heard that rather than ISIS.. this attack is thought to be Al Quida..   It has many earmarks of an Al quida attack.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 13, 2015)

Tell me again anti-surveillance people.. how we don't need to listen in to phone calls.  This had to be a very well coordinated  effort...


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## Meringue (Nov 13, 2015)

A member of isis has been captured at the concert hall, according to Al Jazeera news


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## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2015)

ABC is reporting that the situation at the Bataclan concert hall where hostages were being held has "been resolved" whatever that means.
 Talk of a suicide attack. (?)

Altogether there are seven separate attacks.


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## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2015)

The French police have stormed the concert hall and it is reported that 100 people have been killed.


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## Meringue (Nov 13, 2015)

"Close The Borders", well a little too late, the "Genie is already out of the bottle" I fear there's worse yet to come.


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## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2015)

They're not keeping travellers out. The idea is to try to bottle up any terrorists who may try to escape France.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 13, 2015)

Such a tragic loss of life, these attacks have got to stop. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34814203


*France has declared a national state of emergency and has closed its borders after scores of people were killed in multiple gun and bomb attacks in Paris.
*
At least 100 people are reported to have died at the Bataclan concert hall in central Paris.

Gunmen took many hostages there before being overpowered when police stormed the building.

Others died in a reported suicide blast near the Stade de France and gun attacks on city centre restaurants.

Paris residents have been asked to stay indoors and about 1,500 military personnel are being deployed across the city.


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## Shalimar (Nov 13, 2015)

So very sad, my heart goes out to all affected.


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## fureverywhere (Nov 13, 2015)

Like I've said, I can remember hubby sobbing the night of 9/11. I'm there, I can't watch anymore news for now. My beautiful daughter, she saw Mommy being really sad. Read no further if you fear or hate rodents.

I'm SERIOUS, if I find any anti-rodent posts I'll go over the edge...just frickin' stop reading aw right?

But my daughter pulled me into her room. And we cuddled her pet rats. Just what I needed...G-d Bless


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## Shalimar (Nov 13, 2015)

Fur, so pleased you have lovely little ratties to cuddle. I am cuddling my cats. What comfort our pets offer us at a time like this.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 13, 2015)

RIP victims of attack. Condolences to friends and family of survivors. Speedy recovery to those injured.

And the crap gets worse. Migrant camp now on fire shortly after attacks.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/calais-migrant-camp-on-fire-6830330

Could be either side-revenge seekers or part of the planned mayhem.

I say a lot of things about France but today I say Vive La France!

Peace


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## Butterfly (Nov 13, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Tell me again anti-surveillance people.. how we don't need to listen in to phone calls.  This had to be a very well coordinated  effort...



Agreed.


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## Warrigal (Nov 13, 2015)

Digital surveillance is a necessary tool but insufficient to pick up every plot. 
No-one had any inkling about these attacks and French security is very sophisticated.
The plotters didn't use social media. 
It is assumed that they used the old fashioned techniques of face to face meetings and passing of notes.

It is a mistake to underestimate the intelligence of the enemy.


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## fureverywhere (Nov 13, 2015)

The French police have stormed the concert hall and it is reported that 100 people have been killed. 

The pitiful thing there...the concert was rock and probably young people, another report is they got out maybe fifty of around hundred alive. Hooly Christ no I do not understand this. The numbers are toadly subjective at this point.

Really surveillance up your backside and how do you stop this crap? They had video of the Boston Bombers, did that STOP it? I think not.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 13, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Tell me again anti-surveillance people.. how we don't need to listen in to phone calls.  This had to be a very well coordinated  effort...



In Europe surveillance and mass/mega data collection has been even more intrusive than the US and in less than a year Paris was hit in January with the Charlie Hebdo attacks, then the foiled train attack in France over the summer and now these latest attacks in Paris. 

https://www.seniorforums.com/showth...ning-Bigger-Than-The-US-NSA?highlight=program

They already had security experts on tonight saying there is already too much data to go through and some kind of profiling will have to be done simply to narrow down the amount of data to be checked out or investigated. These were random soft target attacks. 100% security can only be close to being guaranteed in a police state. I will never sacrifice freedom for a sense of security.


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## Shalimar (Nov 13, 2015)

Canadian security experts are stating that there needs to be a more effective means of analysing data rather than increased mass intrusion. They believe that breakdowns often  occur after data is collected.


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## AprilT (Nov 13, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Tell me again anti-surveillance people.. how we don't need to listen in to phone calls.  This had to be a very well coordinated  effort...





Butterfly said:


> Agreed.



Double that.  There will always be a plan that slips through, but without the efforts they security teams put forth, these occurrences would be any where from a monthly to a daily occurrence.  Many smaller and larger plots have been thwarted because of what goes on behind the scenes, we just don't get informed of every single plot prevented or all the details every time information is intercepted, as it should be as far as I'm concerned or the people would be in a constant state of panic.


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## The Inspector (Nov 13, 2015)

We are one with the french people and may the murdering terrorists go to hell.


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## Butterfly (Nov 14, 2015)

"All the people join free with the French and to hell with the murderers" QUOTE

I don't understand what this means.


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## Warrigal (Nov 14, 2015)

As a spinoff I've started a new discussion in Speakers Corner (see Groups under Community at top of this page)
I have been thinking about the power of national songs and invite people who aren't members of this group to join up if you want to join in.
Speakers Corner is for serious discussion. No nonsense is permitted to derail a serious topic and no fighting or disparaging anyone else's posts.
Otherwise there are no rules that the mods haven't already made clear.

Look here https://www.seniorforums.com/group.php?gmid=2205&do=discuss#gmessage2205


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> ... I will never sacrifice freedom for a sense of security.



Amen, brother. 

The urge - and ability - to misuse that surveillance is too great and has been demonstrated too many times.


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

Butterfly, not translating word for word, but the intent behind the French declaration of defiance was: everyone join the French in standing up for freedom, and to hell with the murderers!


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## oldman (Nov 14, 2015)

OK, so France closed their borders, but not the airports. I understand the borders were closed to keep the terrorists from escaping, but how about keeping any additional terrorists from coming in by air? I know they (France's Gov't) know what they're doing, but I can't get a handle on their thinking. Anyone? And, who in their right mind would be flying into Paris at this time? I would think most planes would be very light with passengers, no?


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## Underock1 (Nov 14, 2015)

Paris: "Allah Akbar"/ "Our prayers are with you". 
9/11: "Allah Akbar"/ "God bless America."
Who's side is God on?
Religion doesn't kill. People do. :stop:


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## Ameriscot (Nov 14, 2015)

oldman said:


> OK, so France closed their borders, but not the airports. I understand the borders were closed to keep the terrorists from escaping, but how about keeping any additional terrorists from coming in by air? I know they (France's Gov't) know what they're doing, but I can't get a handle on their thinking. Anyone? And, who in their right mind would be flying into Paris at this time? I would think most planes would be very light with passengers, no?



There are still many entering France by the Eurotunnel.  Security is a bit tighter, but it was tight anyway.  Those who already had holidays booked are still able to go, and if they are not going near Paris or any of the big cities they'd have no reason to cancel.

One of the terminals at London Gatwick Airport has been evacuated due to a security issue.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 14, 2015)

Duplicate


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## Meringue (Nov 14, 2015)

And a plane load of Syrian "refugees" are arriving in Glasgow today !!  Do we know the backgrounds & history of these people ??  Isil members are already living in that Jungle Camp in France, so handy for them to reach the UK.


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## Meringue (Nov 14, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> Paris: "Allah Akbar"/ "Our prayers are with you".
> 9/11: "Allah Akbar"/ "God bless America."
> Who's side is God on?
> Religion doesn't kill. People do. :stop:



This is not a religion, they are members of a Murderous Cult.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 14, 2015)

Meringue said:


> And a plane load of Syrian "refugees" are arriving in Glasgow today !!  Do we know the backgrounds & history of these people ??  Isil members are already living in that Jungle Camp in France, so handy for them to reach the UK.



I'm sure they would be checked.  Not the same as the Calais camps.  Anyone can live in those. 

These refugees were invited to settle in Scotland.  Many Scots wanted to help and they generously offered to take more than their share.  

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-of-syrian-refugees-arriving-before-christmas

15 families will be living on an island not very far from us: It's an island where we love to go for day long bike trips.  

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/14/scotland-rothesay-bute-refugees-syria-welcome


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## Underock1 (Nov 14, 2015)

Meringue said:


> This is not a religion, they are members of a Murderous Cult.



Explain the difference. This certainly _is _a religion, just one that we happen to hate. So we label it a "cult".
 I am not a Muslim hater. I am a one worlder. I look forward to the day when we get rid of the things that divide us into "them and us". We are _all_ "us". I would love to see _all _religions die a natural death. I have posted here before about my positive experiences with the few Muslims I have met or known. I am disturbed as to the silence of the main stream Muslim communities. Where is their outrage and condemnation of the terrorists and empathy for the Parisians? Why are the Imams not coming forward with a statement? For all of the round the clock news coverage, I have seen nothing about that.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

What happened to the German people if they spoke out against the Nazis? Against non-Christians in the Middle Ages?

They are afraid. That's why they do nothing.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 14, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> Explain the difference. This certainly _is _a religion, just one that we happen to hate. So we label it a "cult".
> I am not a Muslim hater. I am a one worlder. I look forward to the day when we get rid of the things that divide us into "them and us". We are _all_ "us". I would love to see _all _religions die a natural death. I have posted here before about my positive experiences with the few Muslims I have met or known. I am disturbed as to the silence of the main stream Muslim communities. Where is their outrage and condemnation of the terrorists and empathy for the Parisians? Why are the Imams not coming forward with a statement? For all of the round the clock news coverage, I have seen nothing about that.




I too have worked with scores of Muslims over the years... doctors.. nurses... respiratory therapists... dietitians... etc..  Normal people... not any overt murderous tendencies.   They are just going about their lives.. working, raising families.    OF course the mainstream Muslim community has come out to condemn these things.. And without a doubt they will condemn this attack in Paris.. But what do you expect that to accomplish?  This radical sect of Islam is not going to be phased by this condemnation... Any more than the violent evangelical and radical Christian groups that advocate murdering abortion doctors or disrupting military funerals are phased by mainstream Christians'  condemnation of their actions.  Even musing about this shows a degree of Islamophobia.

Feel better now?   http://qz.com/550104/muslims-around-the-world-condemn-terrorism-after-the-paris-attacks/

Muslims around the world, from religious leaders and politicians to ordinary people, meanwhile, are condemning the attacks.

In an official statement, Iranian president Hassan Rouhani called the attacks a “crime against humanity.”

In the name of the Iranian people, who have themselves been victims of terrorism, I strongly condemn these crimes against humanity and offer my condolences to the grieving French people and government.


Indonesian president Joko Widodo condemned the “violence that took place in Paris,” and called for more international cooperation to fight terrorism.

Leaders of Arab states called the attacks immoral and inhumane. Qatar’s foreign minister Khaled al-Attiyah denounced the “heinous attacks,” adding, “these acts, which target stability and security in France are against all human and moral values.” Kuwaiti Emir Sheikh Sabah al-Sabah called the attacks “criminal acts of terrorism which run counter to all teachings of holy faith and humanitarian values.” The Saudi foreign ministry called for global cooperation to “root out this dangerous and destructive plague.”
​


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## Meringue (Nov 14, 2015)

Islam's ideal scenario is for a world wide Caliphate.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 14, 2015)

And Christians believe that EVERYONE needs to accept Jesus as their Savior and believe he died for their sins in order to be saved.. Everyone else will be denied the glory of Heaven...


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## QuickSilver (Nov 14, 2015)

Meringue said:


> "Close The Borders", well a little too late, the "Genie is already out of the bottle" I fear there's worse yet to come.


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

Qft.


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

Moderate Muslims are not interested in a worldwide caliphate. That is propoganda spewed out by bigots in attempt to instill fear and Islamophobia in the general population.


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## Underock1 (Nov 14, 2015)

"Even musing about this shows a degree of Islamophobia". ??? Pardon me for thinking. Shame on me. I guess I'll just go over and stand in the corner.

Thank you for posting the site, though. I do appreciate that. Yes. I _do _feel better. I think the media is doing a disservice by not giving that a much bigger play. I watched several hours of constant rehashing of the same old facts. Many reports of support from Western countries. Nary a mention of the Muslim response.


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## Meringue (Nov 14, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> And Christians believe that EVERYONE needs to accept Jesus as their Savior and believe he died for their sins in order to be saved.. Everyone else will be denied the glory of Heaven...


Then why doesn't the ever so silent Saudia Arabia or another Arabic country offer them refuge, which would be more suited to their lifestyles,beliefs and customs.  Integration has not worked. Instead large cities here in England eg the old cotton mill towns are all but 100% Muslim, and other towns now "no go areas" for any non Islamic folk.   I am not a Muslim hater, but this idealistic "multiculturism" has not worked, with the exception of some professionals, the majority mix only with their own.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 14, 2015)

Kinda like our history of segregation?


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## hangover (Nov 14, 2015)

So much irony...Friday the 13th is famous for the Catholic Church committing genocide on the Knights Templar. And the "death metal" concert was attacked...will the NRA defend assault weapons again today?


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## QuickSilver (Nov 14, 2015)

hangover said:


> So much irony...Friday the 13th is famous for the Catholic Church committing genocide on the Knights Templar. And the "death metal" concert was attacked...will the NRA defend assault weapons again today?




Of course they will...   I mean if EVERYONE had an assault weapon in that concert hall..........................................................................


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## hangover (Nov 14, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> And Christians believe that EVERYONE needs to accept Jesus as their Savior and believe he died for their sins in order to be saved.. Everyone else will be denied the glory of Heaven...


Which Christians? Catholics believe they are the only true Christians. Baptists believe Jesus is God, and if you don't believe the way they do, you're going to hell. Mormons believe that the Pleiadians gave the BOOK OF MORMON to Joseph Smith, which makes Jesus an alien.
The Catholics committed genocide on both Muslims and Jews during the Crusades and inquisitions.
Spanish Christians committed genocide on all of Central and South America natives.
American Christians committed genocide on the Native Americans, and killed a million innocent civilians in the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Bush 43 claims to be Christian.
Ronnie Raygun claimed to be Christian, and he sold chemical weapons to Iraq, and missiles to Iran during the Iran/Iraq war.
The GOP claims to be Christian, and the morally superior party, while trying to destroy aid to the elderly, healthcare to the sick, food stamps to hungry children, and aid to the poor.
What and where is a true Christian?


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## QuickSilver (Nov 14, 2015)

hangover said:


> Which Christians? Catholics believe they are the only true Christians. Baptists believe Jesus is God, and if you don't believe the way they do, you're going to hell. Mormons believe that the Pleiadians gave the BOOK OF MORMON to Joseph Smith, which makes Jesus an alien.
> The Catholics committed genocide on both Muslims and Jews during the Crusades and inquisitions.
> Spanish Christians committed genocide on all of Central and South America natives.
> American Christians committed genocide on the Native Americans, and killed a million innocent civilians in the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Bush 43 claims to be Christian.
> ...



That is my point...  like Christianity..  Islam believes it's the true religion... and like Christians..  Muslims reside at all points on the spectrum.  To blame the entire religion for the actions of radical extremists is as wrong as blaming all Christians for murdering doctors.


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

Excuse me, here in Canada multiculturalism works very well. We encourage immigrants to keep many of their customs while adding their diversity to the great Canadian family. Prejudice still exists, but we have ten Muslim members of parliament in our new federal government.


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

Hangover, qft.


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## Bobw235 (Nov 14, 2015)

It will be very interesting to see how world reacts to this latest atrocity committed in the name of God.  I can't comprehend the level of hate that inspires such attacks on innocent people, and can't fathom the end game of such assaults on a civilized society. I can easily see calls for tighter borders, more surveillance of our personal communication across all forms of media, more backlash against refugees, etc.  I can see more "boots on the ground" as almost inevitable.  This was a wake up call and no doubt there will be more of these kinds of attacks. It makes me feel sad, angry, helpless and somewhat fearful for what lies ahead.


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## Don M. (Nov 14, 2015)

This is the kind of thing we can expect more of in the future....both in Europe, and here in the U.S.  These radicalized Muslims are, in many ways, similar to computer hackers....in that they will always be one step ahead of the authorities, and finding new ways to wreak havoc.  No amount of "surveillance" is going to catch them all, and they only have to be successful a fraction of the time, to keep the Western world constantly in "react" mode.  

What I find amazing is the reports that several thousand European and even US "citizens" have gone to Syria, etc., to join ISIS, and several of them have returned to their native nation...where many of them are placed under "surveillance".  Surveillance, MY A$$...if they join these radicals, then come back home with any desire to spread their warped actions...they should be arrested, and subjected to the most stringent methods of interrogation, and considered to be terrorists, until proven otherwise.  To simply allow them to return to their original nation, and "assume" that the authorities can successfully track their activities is a sure way to insure that attacks like this latest one in Paris will continue to potentially plague every major city in the West.


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## Butterfly (Nov 14, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Hangover, qft.



Shalimar, what does qft mean?


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## hangover (Nov 14, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> Shalimar, what does qft mean?


I think it means quit talking...with an "F" bomb. BTW Hi, I used to live in Albuquerque, on the west side by the volcanoes.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 14, 2015)

hangover said:


> I think it means quit talking...with an "F" bomb. BTW Hi, I used to live in Albuquerque, on the west side by the volcanoes.




It means Quoted For Truth...


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## hangover (Nov 14, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Hangover, qft.



Sorry, a lot of my ancestors died on the "Trail of Tears"....it still hurts. Over two hundred years and still not a Native American POTUS.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 14, 2015)

hangover said:


> Sorry, a lot of my ancestors died on the "Trail of Tears"....it still hurts. Over two hundred years and still not a Native American POTUS.



Are you Cherokee?   My husband is 1/4th..  his maternal grandmother was 100%


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## Butterfly (Nov 14, 2015)

Bobw235 said:


> It will be very interesting to see how world reacts to this latest atrocity committed in the name of God.  I can't comprehend the level of hate that inspires such attacks on innocent people, and can't fathom the end game of such assaults on a civilized society. I can easily see calls for tighter borders, more surveillance of our personal communication across all forms of media, more backlash against refugees, etc.  I can see more "boots on the ground" as almost inevitable.  This was a wake up call and no doubt there will be more of these kinds of attacks. It makes me feel sad, angry, helpless and somewhat fearful for what lies ahead.



I agree.   And the knowledge that something like this could happen here makes my blood run cold.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 14, 2015)

Just heard one of the suicide bombers was a woman.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

Meringue said:


> ...   I am not a Muslim hater, but this idealistic "multiculturism" has not worked, with the exception of some professionals, the majority mix only with their own.



Qft.

It won't stop the powers-that-be from trying to shove it down our throats at every opportunity, though.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 14, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Qft.
> 
> It won't stop the powers-that-be from trying to shove it down our throats at every opportunity, though.



From my earlier link, Syrian refugees are being welcomed to Scotland.  Many Scots stood up and said they'd be happy to take them.  

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/14/scotland-rothesay-bute-refugees-syria-welcome


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> From my earlier link, Syrian refugees are being welcomed to Scotland.  Many Scots stood up and said they'd be happy to take them.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/14/scotland-rothesay-bute-refugees-syria-welcome



Then I commend Scotland's actions, but I hope you never experience the problems that other multicultural countries are. Ask anyone from London how it's going, as an example ...


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## Ameriscot (Nov 14, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Then I commend Scotland's actions, but I hope you never experience the problems that other multicultural countries are. Ask anyone from London how it's going, as an example ...



London has residents from every country in the world.  I think you are referring to cities like Bradford, etc.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> London has residents from every country in the world.  I think you are referring to cities like Bradford, etc.



Possibly. I just seem to recall a lot of upset in London from its long-time residents.


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## The Inspector (Nov 14, 2015)

We are one with the french people


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## hangover (Nov 14, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Are you Cherokee?   My husband is 1/4th..  his maternal grandmother was 100%



Cherokee and Blackfoot......French, British, Scottish, Irish.....a mongrel.


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## hangover (Nov 14, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> It means Quoted For Truth...



My ignorance isn't bliss.


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## Shalimar (Nov 14, 2015)

Once again I state, multiculturalism works very well in Canada. It can work well elsewhere also.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 14, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Possibly. I just seem to recall a lot of upset in London from its long-time residents.



London has a population of 8 million and 1 million are Muslim.  

Muslims seem to integrate better in Scotland.  http://www.economist.com/news/brita...dentify-scottish-english-thistle-and-crescent

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...e_fighting_the_rise_of_radical_Islam_at_home/

Scotland has a population of about 5.2 million.  And about 60,000 are Muslim.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 14, 2015)

*hid in plain sight during a mass migration*

One of the terrorists from Syria came to/through Greece in a boat as part of a group of refugees.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/11/14/greece-syrian-terrorist-came-on-boat.html




Just one of the issues of unbridled unchecked mass immigration. And those who realized and spoke of this as a possibility were poo pooed. Don't have to deny immigration but it definitely should have a process and criteria I don't know like no terrorist ties.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 14, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> One of the terrorists from Syria came to/through Greece in a boat as part of a group of refugees.
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/11/14/greece-syrian-terrorist-came-on-boat.html
> 
> ...



So the answer is condemn all the refugees and the hell with them just in case one is a terrorist?


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## WhatInThe (Nov 14, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> So the answer is condemn all the refugees and the hell with them just in case one is a terrorist?



No, just as I mentioned. Immigration needs a process. For order, time to vet and proper assimilation. I don't care if a refugee has to spend extra time in their home country or in a camp while they are properly vetted. If they are in extreme immediate danger then go for formal asylum. Or they could stand a fight for their own freedom or find ways to survive longer in their own country. Running away or avoiding a problem doesn't solve it.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 14, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> No, just as I mentioned. Immigration needs a process. For order, time to vet and proper assimilation. I don't care if a refugee has to spend extra time in their home country or in a camp while they are properly vetted. If they are in extreme immediate danger then go for formal asylum. Or they could stand a fight for their own freedom or find ways to survive longer in their own country. Running away or avoiding a problem doesn't solve it.



I'd guess that the UK is better at it than Greece.


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## Misty (Nov 14, 2015)

Obama has welcomed over 10,000 syrian refugee's to our country, and many illegal immigrants we now have, are left to roam on their own, with no oversight of them...where they are, or who they are, and in March of this year, 30,000 illegals were released from prison, by the Department of Homeland Security. What happened in Paris, is a wakeup call.
So Very Sad that 127 people were murdered and over 300 people were taken to the hospital. 

So far 5 European Countries have built border fences to stop the flow of immigrants....Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Macedonia and now Hungary.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 14, 2015)

*Was a larger attack actually planned?*

Germany may have foiled another terrorist to be involved in the Paris attacks stopping a car with weapons, explosives and Paris on the GPS.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...foiled-plot-to-supply-arms-to-paris-attackers

Car was stopped November 5 where many of the items were purposely concealed.


----------



## Underock1 (Nov 14, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Excuse me, here in Canada multiculturalism works very well. We encourage immigrants to keep many of their customs while adding their diversity to the great Canadian family. Prejudice still exists, but we have ten Muslim members of parliament in our new federal government.



As I've posted before; I could be a Canadian in an eye blink.


----------



## Meringue (Nov 14, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> From my earlier link, Syrian refugees are being welcomed to Scotland.  Many Scots stood up and said they'd be happy to take them.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/14/scotland-rothesay-bute-refugees-syria-welcome



Indeed the Scots especially the Glaswegians are "the salt of the earth", however I remembered the terrorist attack on Glasgow International Airport in 2007, of the 2 perpetrators one was a British born Muslim Doctor who worked at the local hospital. This ramming incident failed however, I cannot comprehend how a doctor who is meant to save lives can become so radicalised with hatred.


----------



## WhatInThe (Nov 14, 2015)

Misty said:


> Obama has welcomed over 10,000 syrian refugee's to our country, and many illegal immigrants we now have, are left to roam on their own, with no oversight of them...where they are, or who they are, and in March of this year, 30,000 illegals were released from prison, by the Department of Homeland Security. What happened in Paris, is a wakeup call.
> 
> So far 5 European Countries have built border fences to stop the flow of immigrants....Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Macedonia and now Hungary.



Great point. The US has been experiencing unchecked immigration for years. Wether it's drug smuggling or criminals like the one who shot Kate Steinle in San Francisco. I'm not saying stop immigration but it has to have a process that includes order for safety and fairness. 

Europe is tough because many countries have a 360 degree land border. If the process were slowed down and word got back to the home country perhaps many of these refugees including terrorists and criminals wouldn't be so quick to try tagging along with the masses.


----------



## Underock1 (Nov 14, 2015)

A bit off topic, but relative, I think. I watched a documentary the other day. Parmesan cheese is made in a small area of Italy by a tight knit community of Indian Sikhs. They have maintained their own customs and religion, and have been doing it for decades without a problem.


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## ~Lenore (Nov 14, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> A bit off topic, but relative, I think. I watched a documentary the other day. Parmesan cheese is made in a small area of Italy by a tight knit community of Indian Sikhs. They have maintained their own customs and religion, and have been doing it for decades without a problem.



*That works very well with Sikhs.  Their religion does not consider every other religions infidels.  Peaceful religions can assimilate peacefully.   True Islam believes everyone who is not Muslim is an infidel and are subject to death if it seems right to the other Muslims. *


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## The Inspector (Nov 14, 2015)

﻿The important thing now is to find how the terrorists were able to avoid detection.

Some of the leaks on how the U.S.surveils may have help the terrorists avoid detection.

We will not know until the alphabet soup of agencies 
find out how they missed this one.


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## The Inspector (Nov 14, 2015)

It is my though that this thread has gone the wrong way. I stead of reporting the *atrocities* and supporting the French.

It's complaining about refuges and the trouble they could bring to us.

Early reports are often wrong.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 14, 2015)

Meringue said:


> Indeed the Scots especially the Glaswegians are "the salt of the earth", however I remembered the terrorist attack on Glasgow International Airport in 2007, of the 2 perpetrators one was a British born Muslim Doctor who worked at the local hospital. This ramming incident failed however, I cannot comprehend how a doctor who is meant to save lives can become so radicalised with hatred.



He was born in Britain but moved back to Iraq when he was 5.  So he was not raised here.  He came back later.  I remember this attack very well.  After that attack the airport was changed to only allow taxis and buses near the entrance. 

Don't know where the rest of the refugees are being housed, but 15 families of about 5 members each are being housed on the Isle of Bute.  

PM Cameron offered to take 1,000 refugees and Scotland has agreed to take 400 of them.  And England has 10 times the population of Scotland.


----------



## SifuPhil (Nov 14, 2015)

One of the biggest problems in dealing with these terrorists is that we're still playing catch-up ball - still being reactive instead of proactive. We should be hitting them where they live, harder and more frequently than we already are. Yes, there will be a price paid - but otherwise we will forever be mourning our losses.


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## Warrigal (Nov 14, 2015)

Meringue said:


> Islam's ideal scenario is for a world wide Caliphate.



That is the vision of extremist Sunnis. It is certainly not something desired by Shia, or Druze or the Kurds, or the Yashidis. They don't want to see it any more than Christians living in the Middle East look forward to a caliphate.


----------



## Warrigal (Nov 14, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> And Christians believe that EVERYONE needs to accept Jesus as their Savior and believe he died for their sins in order to be saved.. Everyone else will be denied the glory of Heaven...



Some Christians, QuickSilver. 

Others believe that the sacrifice on the cross has released humanity from the concept of eternal judgement and that heaven or hell are what we build and embrace in this lifetime. Heaven and hell are states of being, not actual places somewhere off planet.


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## Warrigal (Nov 14, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Excuse me, here in Canada multiculturalism works very well. We encourage immigrants to keep many of their customs while adding their diversity to the great Canadian family. Prejudice still exists, but we have ten Muslim members of parliament in our new federal government.



Multiculturalism has been very successful in Australia too. We are the one of the most multicultural countries and along with Canada, we have made a pretty good fist of inclusion. Migrants need about 50 years to fully integrate. That is two generations. In the meantime they need some latitude to maintain cultural identity and customs. Australia has been enriched by this diversity and where I live we celebrate it with festivals.


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## BobF (Nov 14, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> Multiculturalism has been very successful in Australia too. We are the one of the most multicultural countries and along with Canada, we have made a pretty good fist of inclusion. Migrants need about 50 years to fully integrate. That is two generations. In the meantime they need some latitude to maintain cultural identity and customs. Australia has been enriched by this diversity and where I live we celebrate it with festivals.



By your description I think the US has done real well.   Just about everyone living here came from some place else.   You never see much difference from one to the other.   For the most part we all speak American English.   Some still are using their home land languages and down here in the south west we do have a lot of Mexican, Central, and South American folks that speak Spanish all the time.   We even have translators in our courts to help explain what is happening and what the attorneys or judges are saying.   But many of those families have children in our schools and they are taught in English as quickly as they get started to understand English.

We do have festivals based on foreign cultures.   Some are with Spanish songs and dancing.    Others are Bavarian styles.   Some areas would feature oriental foods and clothing.   In a large section of the west, from New Mexico to Nevada we have a native American nation that they live in and control.   It is the Navajo Nation and when traveling through their lands there are festivals where you can see some of the foods they eat and how they sometimes still live.   For the most part though they have become more like the rest of the US folks.   They serve in our military, they run businesses, they work in our businesses, they have built hospitals.   They also have a good education system and trade schools and higher education at college levels. 

I think overall that the US works well with immigrants and try to help them to become part of our communities.   Just wish they would all get cleared to be here and start to live in the open as they should.


----------



## Warrigal (Nov 14, 2015)

Yes, Bob, the countries that are struggling most with an influx of immigrants tend to be the old world countries that have had centuries of undisturbed culture. They are the countries that exported rather an imported people. The British and French were in culture shock when people from the empires decided to settle in the mother countries some decades ago and both have had some difficulties with inclusion of these minorities. This is not to say that they haven't tried very hard. 

In Australia roughly half of the population was either born overseas or has at least one parent who was. These people are the real Australians of the 21st century just a much as I was the real Aussie of the 21st century.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 15, 2015)

'Multiculturalism' can work but it's a two way street including the one the migrants should follow. They are the ones that decided to move so they should be the ones just as careful not offend their new host country. Now just like many natural born citizens the migrants also frequently have an unwieldy sense of entitlement. I guess many have the entitlement culture part down pat coming in.


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## Warrigal (Nov 15, 2015)

What do you mean by 'sense of entitlement'?
The same rules apply to everyone in Australia whether on a permanent visa, naturalised or natural born. 
Other kinds of visa don't confer social services.
Only Aboriginees have a few extra special privileges as a birthright.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 15, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> What do you mean by 'sense of entitlement'?
> The same rules apply to everyone in Australia whether on a permanent visa, naturalised or natural born.
> Other kinds of visa don't confer social services.
> Only Aboriginees have a few extra special privileges as a birthright.



When the natural born citizens already have an existing unwieldly sense of entitlement wether by attitude or action immigrants seem to learn that part of the culture before anything else. In the US that usually means benefits and people screaming they have rights when they don't get their way. In other words many, not all are demanding respect before earning it.


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## chic (Nov 15, 2015)

In Brussells, arrests have been made and one of the terrorists captured and imprisoned. I'm watching CNN and just heard. So at least some progress is being made. That's an auspicous sign.


----------



## IKE (Nov 15, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Of course they will...   I mean if EVERYONE had an assault weapon in that concert hall..........................................................................



May I finish your above sentence ?.......then there wouldn't have been a hostage situation.

I'd be willing to bet that many of those inside would agree with......"It's much better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it."


----------



## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

IKE said:


> May I finish your above sentence ?.......then there wouldn't have been a hostage situation.
> 
> I'd be willing to bet that many of those inside would agree with......"It's much better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it."



Are you kidding me?  There would have been a circular firing squad and many more would have been killed..   Can you imagine everyone firing an assault weapon and not having a clue who they were supposed to shoot.. other than someone shooting a gun... which would have been everyone..  I simply don't understand HOW you can even think this would have been better.    I can tell you one thing..  I would not be in a place where a bunch of Yahoos had an assault weapon slung over their shoulders..


----------



## Bobw235 (Nov 15, 2015)

I have shared other columns by Frank Bruni of the NY Times.  Here is today's, covering the exploitation/politicizing of the Paris attacks.  Makes me sick.  http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/opinion/the-exploitation-of-paris.html?ref=opinion


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## IKE (Nov 15, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Are you kidding me?  There would have been a circular firing squad and many more would have been killed..   Can you imagine everyone firing an assault weapon and not having a clue who they were supposed to shoot.. other than someone shooting a gun...



C'mom QS......a circular firing squad ??

I wasn't present nor where you but I'll bet that the theater patrons were very much aware of who the bad guys were and would have known exactly who to fire on.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

Sure you do...   Perhaps you can't imagine the scene.. but I can.  A dark concert hall.. Hundreds of people watching the show..and suddenly shots are fired..  People start screaming and running and not sure what they are screaming about or running from...  NOW if you were there could YOU have in a split second determined what was going on and where and who you should direct your gun at?   If you think you could you are fooling yourself.   NOW add 15 or 20 more equally confused "good guys"  and exactly how do you think that will pan out?   These things are NOT Hollywood movies Ike..  There would have been just as many if not more deaths only many deaths would have been the result of "friendly fire".  My guess is that as you shot your weapon at the bad guys... some "Good guy" would have taken you out...


----------



## Ameriscot (Nov 15, 2015)

IKE said:


> May I finish your above sentence ?.......then there wouldn't have been a hostage situation.
> 
> I'd be willing to bet that many of those inside would agree with......"It's much better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it."



And I would bet they wouldn't.  Europeans don't have that stupid cowboy attitude where they are packing a weapon everywhere they go.


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## Shalimar (Nov 15, 2015)

Ike have you ever been in the dark playing lethal cat and mouse? Surrounded by noises meant to distract? Believe me, it is next to impossible to determine friend from foe. Unfortunately, if you guess incorrectly, the consequences can be lethal. The guilt never leaves you.


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## Shalimar (Nov 15, 2015)

Annie, Canadians don't subscribe to the QuickDraw mentality either.


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## Bobw235 (Nov 15, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Sure you do...   Perhaps you can't imagine the scene.. but I can.  A dark concert hall.. Hundreds of people watching the show..and suddenly shots are fired..  People start screaming and running and not sure what they are screaming about or running from...  NOW if you were there could YOU have in a split second determined what was going on and where and who you should direct your gun at?   If you think you could you are fooling yourself.   NOW add 15 or 20 more equally confused "good guys"  and exactly how do you think that will pan out?   These things are NOT Hollywood movies Ike..  There would have been just as many if not more deaths only many deaths would have been the result of "friendly fire".  My guess is that as you shot your weapon at the bad guys... some "Good guy" would have taken you out...


Several years ago I saw an experiment on this same kind of scenario.  They took volunteers and put them in a classroom setting, giving them concealed weapons, then measured their ability to 1) get to the weapons in a timely manner, and 2) determine who to shoot.  If I recall correctly, the volunteers shot many more of the innocent bystanders than they did the perpetrators in this imaginary setting, if they didn't get "killed" themselves because of hesitation and the time it took to get a weapon out.  Have to agree with you here QS, if others had guns in that concert hall, more would have died, though that's hard to fathom right now.  And this plays right into the column I posted earlier in this thread.  How does an act of terrorism suddenly become a vehicle for advocating in favor of MORE GUNS!  It's insanity.


----------



## BobF (Nov 15, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> And I would bet they wouldn't.  Europeans don't have that stupid cowboy attitude where they are packing a weapon everywhere they go.



And the Americans do not either.    Twisted logic in too many minds.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 15, 2015)

Bobw235 said:


> I have shared other columns by Frank Bruni of the NY Times.  Here is today's, covering the exploitation/politicizing of the Paris attacks.  Makes me sick.  http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/opinion/the-exploitation-of-paris.html?ref=opinion



Makes me sick as well.


----------



## Ameriscot (Nov 15, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Annie, Canadians don't subscribe to the QuickDraw mentality either.



I know.  It is uniquely American.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 15, 2015)

BobF said:


> And the Americans do not either.    Twisted logic in too many minds.



Of course they do.  Many, not all.  Look at all the people shopping at Walmart with their weapons over their shoulders.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 15, 2015)

Bobw235 said:


> Several years ago I saw an experiment on this same kind of scenario.  They took volunteers and put them in a classroom setting, giving them concealed weapons, then measured their ability to 1) get to the weapons in a timely manner, and 2) determine who to shoot.  If I recall correctly, the volunteers shot many more of the innocent bystanders than they did the perpetrators in this imaginary setting, if they didn't get "killed" themselves because of hesitation and the time it took to get a weapon out.  Have to agree with you here QS, if others had guns in that concert hall, more would have died, though that's hard to fathom right now.  And this plays right into the column I posted earlier in this thread.  How does an act of terrorism suddenly become a vehicle for advocating in favor of MORE GUNS!  It's insanity.



I believe many more would have died as well.  The reaction in the US always seem to be 'more guns for the good guys'.


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## BobF (Nov 15, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Makes me sick as well.



Definitely a full blown liberal lefty that just hates any other type of political thinking.   He has inadvertently listed many of the problems of the liberal far left thinkers.   Yes they do need to be discussed and made aware of to the general public.   We don't carry guns everywhere, questions need to be asked and not belittled by believers of some of these lies and distortions.   Clean air?   Temps rising?    Yes we all work for clean air but we also need to make sure the people can still travel, live in comfort with heat and cooling, have jobs, and on and on.    Temperature rising about 1 degree Celsious over 15 or so years.   My, that could be in the accuracy of the instrumentation around the world.   It could be in the interpretations around the world.   That could be just another normal rise in the temperature that happens in the normal temperature cycles of the world.   Just before the heat rising started we were in a cooling fear time as it was threatened that we were heading into colder weather.   Most of this nonsense is political rather than actual.


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## Bobw235 (Nov 15, 2015)

Just finished this column by Roger Cohen, which advocates military action by NATO forces to "crush" ISIS.  I have to say, reluctantly, I agree with his sentiments here.  I just don't see any other way.  I offer up his column for your consideration.  http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/o...lick&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=article


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## Shalimar (Nov 15, 2015)

Admin has asked that we criticise ideas rather than people. Why is that so difficult? To disagree with someone occupying a different spot on tne political spectrum does not automatically  mean you hate their ideas. I am a far left thinker by some 


people's parameters, but my spiritual values preclude me indulging in hate. Why must there be insulting remarks, when we can simply agree to disagree?


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## Shalimar (Nov 15, 2015)

Bobw, I fear you are right. But we must be very careful not to mimic others who commit war crimes in the cause of "righteousness." We don't want another Palestine.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 15, 2015)

BobF said:


> Definitely a full blown liberal lefty that just hates any other type of political thinking.   He has inadvertently listed many of the problems of the liberal far left thinkers.   Yes they do need to be discussed and made aware of to the general public.   We don't carry guns everywhere, questions need to be asked and not belittled by believers of some of these lies and distortions.   Clean air?   Temps rising?    Yes we all work for clean air but we also need to make sure the people can still travel, live in comfort with heat and cooling, have jobs, and on and on.    Temperature rising about 1 degree Celsious over 15 or so years.   My, that could be in the accuracy of the instrumentation around the world.   It could be in the interpretations around the world.   That could be just another normal rise in the temperature that happens in the normal temperature cycles of the world.   Just before the heat rising started we were in a cooling fear time as it was threatened that we were heading into colder weather.   Most of this nonsense is political rather than actual.



You have missed the entire point of the article.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Of course they do.  Many, not all.  Look at all the people shopping at Walmart with their weapons over their shoulders.




Americans most certainly do hold the "live tough or die"  "shoot 'em up cowboy".. "don't tread on me" attitudes.. Perhaps this has to do with our culture of valuing the individual much more than the society.  I'm not sure... Perhaps our history of revolution against Merry ol England.. Or our settling of the wild wild west in the pioneer days..  But we DO want to talk and act like a bunch of "bad asses"  even if we need a gun to back that up..   It's embarrassing.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> You have missed the entire point of the article.



ANd that would be unusual HOW?   HAHAHAHAHAHA


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## Ameriscot (Nov 15, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> ANd that would be unusual HOW?   HAHAHAHAHAHA



HAHA!  Silly me.  And I just took him off ignore!


----------



## BobF (Nov 15, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> You have missed the entire point of the article.



Maybe you missed my point in my response.    Lots of folks in the US and likely the world too, just do not believe all the distortions and nonsense the lefties love to push.    Especially when so many things go against the way our Constitution says things should be.

One being the people should be in charge and not the controlling party telling the people how it is going to be.   A dictatorship style is not what is supposed to run the US.    Obama care is such a system contrary to the Constitution.   Party politics is contrary to the way we should be running our government.


----------



## BobF (Nov 15, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> You have missed the entire point of the article.



Maybe you missed my point in my response.    Lots of folks in the US and likely the world too, just do not believe all the distortions and nonsense the lefties love to push.

I did read the article and only saw how everything was pointed at the conservative folks being off base with their ideas.    So what did I miss.


----------



## Bobw235 (Nov 15, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Bobw, I fear you are right. But we must be very careful not to mimic others who commit war crimes in the cause of "righteousness." We don't want another Palestine.



I hate that we have come to this point, but sadly, we seem to be facing an enemy in ISIS that cannot be reasoned with.  They and their belief system run counter to the tenets of civilized human society.  Serious mistakes have been made by the West over a period of many years in their approach to dealing with the Middle East, most notably our invasion of Iraq.  Hopefully we learn from those mistakes and if action is indeed taken at some point in the future, we do it right and we do it thoroughly.  This means not just military action, but also understanding the root causes that led to the rise of this evil.  I hope we think long and hard before committing to any further escalation in that part of the world.  I hope it can be avoided, but unfortunately I think this gets worse before it gets better.  Beyond a possible military response, I suspect we're going to see tighter borders, more surveillance, a clamping down on radical imams/mosques, etc.  I think we also have to face the fact that the internal battle between Sunni and Shiite factions within the Islamic community has existed for a long time.  Those deep-seated beliefs are not something the West is ever going to solve, so maybe the best we can hope for eliminating ISIS and making sure that we're more vigilant the next time we see this type of movement rising up in the future.


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## IKE (Nov 15, 2015)

Alright already......I've seen the error of my ways......you've now thoroughly convinced me.

I'm going to unsaddle and pasture my horse, throw away my cowboy hat and more importantly disarm myself and hang up six my shooters.........I go willingly now to join the ranks of the defenseless unarmed lambs awaiting slaughter.  NOT!!


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

Don't be so dramatic...


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## Shalimar (Nov 15, 2015)

I am confused Ike. You are entitled to believe whatever you wish. Hey, I have metallic gold cowboy boots, and a leopard patterned cowgirl hat. No horse though, condo rules prohibit it.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

Yes.. the Sunnni's and the Shiite's have been waring for eons... and we are not going to change that... not EVER.. no matter what we do..  It is water under the bridge now to place blame... because the damage is done... The actions of the Bush/Cheney administration have destabilized the region and the actions of President Maliki sealed the deal by excluding the ISIS factors from power in his government.  So...  Now we have it...   what do we do?   Do we go in and destroy ISIS.?    How do you destroy a mindset?


----------



## BobF (Nov 15, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yes.. the Sunnni's and the Shiite's have been waring for eons... and we are not going to change that... not EVER.. no matter what we do..  It is water under the bridge now to place blame... because the damage is done... The actions of the Bush/Cheney administration have destabilized the region and the actions of President Maliki sealed the deal by excluding the ISIS factors from power in his government.  So...  Now we have it...   what do we do?   Do we go in and destroy ISIS.?    How do you destroy a mindset?



Here we go with that Bush caused it lies and distortions.   Only the real far far far left really believe that nonsense.


----------



## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

BobF said:


> Here we go with that Bush caused it lies and distortions.   Only the real far far far left really believe that nonsense.



Yes... Bush.. with the advise of his biased and twisted minded friends caused the whole thing... Yep... Only the far far far far far far far far far right with their biased and twisted and nonsensical thinking would be stupid enough to believe otherwise..  lol!!


----------



## Shalimar (Nov 15, 2015)

Boy, personally, I think all this finger pointing has gone far far far far too far. Lol. I couldn't help myself, I experienced a schizoid embolism and lost control....


----------



## BobF (Nov 15, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yes... Bush.. with the advise of his biased and twisted minded friends caused the whole thing... Yep... Only the far far far far far far far far far right with their biased and twisted and nonsensical thinking would be stupid enough to believe otherwise..  lol!!



Where is your proofs of such nonsense?    I have posted such that say it was not Bush that caused Isis to be a problem.   I have posted proofs that it was not Bush that created the Iraq war.   It was a British Gen Sir Michael Jackson, that encouraged the groups watching over Iraq with UN approvals to just go ahead and move in on Saddam.   You just never beleive the facts that do exist and just keep posting these hateful liberal lies about the conservative folks.   Truth and facts do exist.   Why not use them.


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## fureverywhere (Nov 15, 2015)

This topic has spun so far I don't even know what to say


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> This topic has spun so far I don't even know what to say




Don't worry about it... Bob doesn't either..


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## WhatInThe (Nov 15, 2015)

chic said:


> In Brussells, arrests have been made and one of the terrorists captured and imprisoned. I'm watching CNN and just heard. So at least some progress is being made. That's an auspicous sign.



Yep-7, Seven potential attackers

http://mic.com/articles/128600/belg...spected-in-paris-terrorist-attacks#.8cjY65Fg0

And Belgium was the site of a raid shortly after the Hebdo attacks in January.

http://time.com/3670433/belgium-terrorism-attack-verviers/

I never would have thought of France or Belgium of hotbeds of terrorism years ago.

Also a soccer stadium security guard stopped the stadium attack from getting worse denying entrance to a terrorist who blew himself up outside the stadium.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...-turned-bomb-clad-terrorist-article-1.2435076


----------



## Shalimar (Nov 15, 2015)

. How can we work together on a global scale hoping  to find a reasonable way to deal with the aftermath of the Paris attacks, when many can't even tolerate opposing political views in a democracy without resorting to snide verbal attacks?  I have been 

very courteous, and very patient, but enough is enough. The next time I hear my political views denigrated as far far left liberal nonsense or garbage I will respond. Difference of opinion is one thing, abuse is another.  To a Canadian, being accused of 

hatred towards people who have different views than we do, smacks of hate speech. We prize our tolerance and courtesy, and find such labels culturally offensive in the extreme. We are supposed to be showing solidarity for les pauvres Parisiennes, not 

denigrating each other.


----------



## hangover (Nov 15, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> . How can we work together on a global scale hoping  to find a reasonable way to deal with the aftermath of the Paris attacks, when many can't even tolerate opposing political views in a democracy without resorting to snide verbal attacks?  I have been
> 
> very courteous, and very patient, but enough is enough. The next time I hear my political views denigrated as far far left liberal nonsense or garbage I will respond. Difference of opinion is one thing, abuse is another.  To a Canadian, being accused of
> 
> ...


----------



## WhatInThe (Nov 15, 2015)

Weapons found in getaway car.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/11/15/ak-47s-found-in-paris-getaway-car.html

More proof attack was supposed to be larger?

Also another report noting that a 2nd terrorist came in as a refugee. 

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...man-entered-europe-via-greece-posing-refugee/


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## Misty (Nov 15, 2015)

Manhunt for 8th Paris Suspect underway.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/world/europe/paris-terror-attack.html


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## Butterfly (Nov 15, 2015)

Bobw235 said:


> Just finished this column by Roger Cohen, which advocates military action by NATO forces to "crush" ISIS.  I have to say, reluctantly, I agree with his sentiments here.  I just don't see any other way.  I offer up his column for your consideration.  http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/o...lick&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=article



Bob, I also agree.  I don't see any other way, either.


----------



## WhatInThe (Nov 15, 2015)

Finally have a label for at least one pos terrorist coward.

http://indianexpress.com/article/wo...of-violence-in-and-around-paris-several-dead/

Prior to attack he was a petty criminal but on a list of potential candidates for radicalization since 2010. Identified by finger found after he was one of three to blow himself up.

Also terrorist may have used a video game to communicate-Play Station 4

http://www.geek.com/news/paris-terrorists-suspected-of-using-playstation-4-to-communicate-1639536/

Heard another report they might have used couriers/people as well.


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## Meringue (Nov 15, 2015)

In the meantime, I heard that Paris does NOT have CCTV cameras !  I really suggest that they get them installed pronto.


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## Bee (Nov 15, 2015)

The following article is dated October 2008 so I think you will find Paris has more CCTV than you realise.......


While the Paris metro and rail networks already operate around 9,500 CCTV devices, police have only 330 at their disposal to survey outside public areas. The new plan, dubbed "A Thousand Cameras for Paris", will raise that number to more than 1,200 – with most installed in high-risk areas and outside railway and underground stations.

The figure is still small compared with London, where each citizen is caught on average several hundred times a day. Britain has about four million closed-circuit security cameras compared with France's 340,000.

The CCTV drive follows Mr Sarkozy's pledge last autumn to follow London's surveillance lead. "I am very impressed by the efficiency of the British police thanks to this network of cameras," the French president said. "In my mind, there is no contradiction between respecting individual freedoms and the installation of cameras to protect everyone's security."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...aris-to-quadruple-number-of-CCTV-cameras.html


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## Warrigal (Nov 15, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Americans most certainly do hold the "live tough or die"  "shoot 'em up cowboy".. "don't tread on me" attitudes.. Perhaps this has to do with our culture of valuing the individual much more than the society.  I'm not sure... Perhaps our history of revolution against Merry ol England.. Or our settling of the wild wild west in the pioneer days..  But we DO want to talk and act like a bunch of "bad asses"  even if we need a gun to back that up..   It's embarrassing.



Interesting that you bypassed the Civil War, QuickSilver. That was the time that Americans needed to be armed against other Americans and as far as I can see, those wounds still run deep and are only partly healed.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> Bob, I also agree.  I don't see any other way, either.



I am now finally on the agree team too..   We need to go in with our allies... and crush them.. down to the very last one..  THEN go after any we find operating as cells in our countries.   I don't see any other way either... It's time...  we need to show them what it's like to play..


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> Interesting that you bypassed the Civil War, QuickSilver. That was the time that Americans needed to be armed against other Americans and as far as I can see, those wounds still run deep and are only partly healed.



Oh for sure... the North and the South are still at odds..


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## Meringue (Nov 15, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I am now finally on the agree team too..   We need to go in with our allies... and crush them.. down to the very last one..  THEN go after any we find operating as cells in our countries.   I don't see any other way either... It's time...  we need to show them what it's like to play..


 Ah well, it's started with France now having air strikes and have dropped 20 bombs on Raqqua in Syria


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## QuickSilver (Nov 15, 2015)

I have started to believe it's going to take more than Air Strikes..


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## WhatInThe (Nov 15, 2015)

*catch & release*

Apparently French police had one of the suspects near or at the Belgian border and let him go.

http://fox59.com/2015/11/15/police-...ect-saleh-abdeslam-hours-after-paris-attacks/

Included in the story about this pos coward terrorist suspect are his name & photo


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## Shalimar (Nov 15, 2015)

Rather like World War Three in the making?


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## fureverywhere (Nov 15, 2015)

We're dealing with people who burn others alive...and film it...for fun. They are frickin' animals. The problem is how to sort them out over the "collateral damage". Yes this is a terrorist as compared to just a living being...that is the problem.


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## Karen99 (Nov 15, 2015)

Watching the aftermath in Paris is heart wrenching.  It's dejavu of our own dark day of 9-11.  My heart goes out to the unspeakable loss of life and shattered survivors.  This is an assault on all humanity.  This monster called ISIL is a hate machine bent on destruction in the most hurtful way possible.  I'm not sure what the answer is.  It is terrifying to know so many are willing to join this group.  It seems more like some kind of death cult than a religion.  

:rose::rose::rose:  Remembering the victims...and their grieving survivors.


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## Warrigal (Nov 16, 2015)

A very unPC friend of mine just reminded me that the only ever act of terrorism in New Zealand was committed by French agents.

I'm not sure how to react to this piece of history. I don't think it changes how I feel about my concern for France today. In fact, I'm sure it doesn't but it is a fact that I had forgotten.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior

Now that this memory has been recovered, I also remember that I once boycotted French perfume for a whole year because of what they did to Mururoa Atoll with their nuclear testing. Have we forgotten that France is a nuclear power? Should this be a concern?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-21/an-french-polynesia-upgrades-former-nuclear-sites/5276042


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## chic (Nov 16, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> We're dealing with people who burn others alive...and film it...for fun. They are frickin' animals. The problem is how to sort them out over the "collateral damage". Yes this is a terrorist as compared to just a living being...that is the problem.



They're worse than animals, Fur. Animals kill for survival. You can't say the same for ISIS. Their brutally is beyond anything I've heard of since the Dark Ages. Burning someone alive in a cage should have been considered an act of war in the eyes of the civilized world months ago. I hope these "people" can be stopped before they do even more damage, killing more civillians. Pre-emptive strikes seem to be the way to go here. I cannot believe a group of young militant radicals is holding world powers hostage with their random attacks of mind boggling violence. I'm sure that France, along with America and Great Britain can join forces, share information and defeat them. We've won 2 World Wars together before. I think we have the weaponry and military skills to wipe out ISIS. It seems ISIS has not reached our "squealing" point yet.


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

Ahem. Regarding two world wars. Commonwealth countries were an integral part of winning those conflicts.  Canada went to war first in 1914, and again in 1939.


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## Warrigal (Nov 16, 2015)

Shalimar, I've read _1066 And All That._  In that weighty tome there is this statement :



> History is not what you thought. _It is what you can remember._



It seems that misremembering history is very common. :grin:


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## Underock1 (Nov 16, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Ahem. Regarding two world wars. Commonwealth countries were an integral part of winning those conflicts.  Canada went to war first in 1914, and again in 1939.



No doubt about it, and in outstanding style as well. Tip,of the hat to the Australians as well. :hatlaugh1:


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

Thank you Underock.


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## Shalimar (Nov 16, 2015)

Warri, you are so right. That was brought home to me strongly when I watched the film Argo. Many Canadians steamed big time over the misrepresentation of our diplomatic staff saving the lives of several Americans at great peril to those Canadians involved.


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## Meringue (Nov 16, 2015)

karen99 said:


> watching the aftermath in paris is heart wrenching.  It's dejavu of our own dark day of 9-11.  My heart goes out to the unspeakable loss of life and shattered survivors.  This is an assault on all humanity.  This monster called isil is a hate machine bent on destruction in the most hurtful way possible.  I'm not sure what the answer is.  It is terrifying to know so many are willing to join this group.  It seems more like some kind of death cult than a religion.
> 
> :rose::rose::rose:  Remembering the victims...and their grieving survivors.



solidarite toujours


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## Ameriscot (Nov 16, 2015)

All of Europe had a minute of silence today.


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## Misty (Nov 16, 2015)

New video out today by Isis, threatening Washington D.C and countries that have engaged in war against them.  The Governors in Michigan and Alabama are refusing to allow Syrian refugee's to enter their states, since the Paris terrorist attacks.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-threatens-attack-washington-other-countries-122051922.html


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## QuickSilver (Nov 16, 2015)

Let's not blame the refugees for this scourge...  It's ISIS... and ISIS is what the refugees are running FROM..  Could some terrorists infiltrate the refugee camp.. sure.. but we cannot refuse to help people in desperate need because of this..


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## WhatInThe (Nov 16, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> A very unPC friend of mine just reminded me that the only ever act of terrorism in New Zealand was committed by French agents.
> 
> I'm not sure how to react to this piece of history. I don't think it changes how I feel about my concern for France today. In fact, I'm sure it doesn't but it is a fact that I had forgotten.
> 
> ...



I remember this. I was appalled but after reflection it did involve nuclear testing & technology. France has done a lot of things over the years but I don't know if I can hold a 30 year old incident against them. Concerns over nuclear technology/testing still do not justify murder.   Anything nuclear security and/or boundaries should be respected. But so should the boundaries and rights of protesters. France being a nuclear power should be 'a' concern but not a big one at this time. This might spur French military expansion including size and deployments.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 19, 2015)

Alleged ring leader killed after raid/shootout. First women suicide bomber in Europe tried to lure/takeout as many police as possible.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-police-siege-safehouse-French-capital.html

Reports had raid using 5,000 rounds of ammunition being fired. Two killed. Police dog killed.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 20, 2015)

Another body, that of another women found in the raided Paris apartment.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/11/20/third-body-found-in-paris-terror-hideout.html

Two women in the same cell. Also chilling video sound circulating where the women suicide bomber taunts police arguing or shouting she was not the terrorist's boyfriend(cousin or wife I think).

http://article.wn.com/view/2015/11/19/Paris_female_suicide_bomber_shouts_at_police_during_raid/


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## Ruthanne (Nov 20, 2015)

Bobw235 said:


> It will be very interesting to see how world reacts to this latest atrocity committed in the name of God.  I can't comprehend the level of hate that inspires such attacks on innocent people, and can't fathom the end game of such assaults on a civilized society. I can easily see calls for tighter borders, more surveillance of our personal communication across all forms of media, more backlash against refugees, etc.  I can see more "boots on the ground" as almost inevitable.  This was a wake up call and no doubt there will be more of these kinds of attacks. It makes me feel sad, angry, helpless and somewhat fearful for what lies ahead.


I feel the same way.


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## WhatInThe (Feb 20, 2016)

One of the Paris suspects arrested in Belgium had film of a Belgian nuclear scientist. Many consider this proof or confirmation that ISIS will try a nuclear attack of somekind.

http://www.wnd.com/2016/02/nuclear-jihad-terror-suspect-had-video-of-top-scientist/



Were they trying to find information for leverage & blackmail or looking to kidnap & coerce.


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## Don M. (Feb 20, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> One of the Paris suspects arrested in Belgium had film of a Belgian nuclear scientist. Many consider this proof or confirmation that ISIS will try a nuclear attack of somekind.
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2016/02/nuclear-jihad-terror-suspect-had-video-of-top-scientist/
> 
> ...



I doubt that ISIS would be able to create a nuclear bomb, but if they get their hands on some processed uranium, or nuclear waste, they could easily create a big "dirty bomb" that would pollute a large area and make it virtually uninhabitable for months or years.  It is only Time before this bunch of lunatics attacks a city in a manner far worse than anything to date.


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## WhatInThe (Mar 18, 2016)

A major suspect from the Paris attacks captured today in Belgium.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pa...d-france-terror-attacks-hollande-says-n541571

Apparently last known suspect to be captured from the Paris attacks. His fingerprints were found at the apartment of an earlier raid.


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## RadishRose (Mar 18, 2016)

Good news!


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## fureverywhere (Mar 18, 2016)

See these guys leave me with same feeling I got hearing a news report from NY about some guy, sixty years old who had been taking in exceptional young boys as foster kids for a few decades. The neighbors said these boys would be rooting in garbage cans and go door to door for food. He's charged with negligence, ****** assault, and acts involving a dog. 

I would take these terrorist guys. Interrogate all the names of their play mates you can get out of them and then shoot them. Likewise the guy from NY...doesn't deserve a trial...just bang and goodbye to bad wubbish. How's that for a tree hugger?


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## WhatInThe (Mar 22, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> One of the Paris suspects arrested in Belgium had film of a Belgian nuclear scientist. Many consider this proof or confirmation that ISIS will try a nuclear attack of somekind.
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2016/02/nuclear-jihad-terror-suspect-had-video-of-top-scientist/
> 
> ...



Nuclear plants placed under extra security after the Brussels attacks.

http://news.yahoo.com/belgium-beefs...0MTVzBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM3BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

Did this terrorist cell who bombed the airport and subway in Brussels have plans for the plants? 

So a Paris terror suspect is captured with a weapons and munitions stash followed by terrorist attacks less than a week later?

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN0WK1K7

Article over 24 hours old


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## WhatInThe (Jul 15, 2016)

Ironic that as the Paris attack information was coming out and measures being removed the fracker in Nice decides to reshen up the wounds.

France was ready to remove the state of emergency declared after the Paris attacks. That declaration gave the police more power to the point of worrying civil rights experts.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/hour...llande-announced-lowering-state-of-emergency/

The attacks at the Bataclan Theater were more brutal than first reported including beheadings , castrations, eye gouging and disembowelments. The terrorists tortured many of their victims. They were also described as Whhabists during a French Parliament hearing.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/0...terrorists-tortured-disemboweled-victims.html


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