# What I love most about America...? by FAR... The People !



## Elyzabeth (Jun 12, 2014)

You really don't realise how blessed we are, and although imperfect, 

our Democracy is truly Democratic,  whereas in places  in places like the UK,

that is far from the case.


They vote once every five years,  and you vote for the PARTY you want in power, 

you don't even have the choice of electing who you want to represent you,



....AND  I'm So tired of hearing anti American sentiments !


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2014)

Has anyone been saying that America is not a democracy?
I must have missed it.

However, democracy comes in a variety of forms.
It does no harm to compare and contrast the systems of different countries and to think about the strengths and weaknesses of all the models.


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## rt3 (Jun 12, 2014)

While definitions can go back and forth the US is really a Republic, go look at the pledge of allegiance , while very similar politically they differ somewhat in that democracies are somewhat more socialistic. (Republican party remember?)


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## Michael. (Jun 12, 2014)

.


CONTRASTS BETWEEN THE AMERICAN AND BRITISH POLITICAL SYSTEMS

*The following URL explains it all in what I call  'Easy Speak'*
.

http://www.rogerdarlington.me.uk/USvsUK.html

.


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## rt3 (Jun 12, 2014)

here is a pretty good discussion if you want to bring yourself up to speed, basically a Republic is set up to protect against the tyranny of the masses.

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html


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## marinaio (Jun 12, 2014)

America is a Representative Democracy which means the popular vote elects a spokesperson who may or may not follow the wishes of his/her constituents, not a true Democracy.  Yes we can vote for individual candidates every two years but in reality, unless we cast a ballot for a slim-chance candidate (often a throw away vote) we are usually voting for one of two parties.

America is still the best place to live but there are signs that some ideological radicals are eroding our greatness.  I hope the general population realizes the danger in time to save what we have.


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## Justme (Jun 12, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> You really don't realise how blessed we are, and although imperfect,
> 
> our Democracy is truly Democratic,  whereas in places  in places like the UK,
> 
> ...



Hmmmmmmmmmm! I am sure many Americans are very pleasant people. But I thank my lucky stars I live in the UK, the NHS might not be perfect, but at least it is free at point of need to all. We don't have the US crazy gun culture, which causes so many tragedies. We aren't a flag waving nation on the whole, and we don't have the highly unpleasant god botherers to the same extent as they do, and the ghastly TV evangelist scam merchants who prey on the gullible.


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## marinaio (Jun 12, 2014)

I'll won't trash the UK in similar fashion but I have to ask, have you ever spent any time in the US or are you parroting the garbage in the rags over there?


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## Justme (Jun 12, 2014)

marinaio said:


> I'll won't trash the UK in similar fashion but I have to ask, have you ever spent any time in the US or are you parroting the garbage in the rags over there?



I am in touch with quite few Americans who moan about their healthcare system and their crazy gun laws.


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## marinaio (Jun 12, 2014)

I didn't spend a lot of time on this but found this interesting:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...rime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

It isn't that our gun laws are a problem, it's that there are criminals and a country as large as the US has a lot of criminals!


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## marinaio (Jun 12, 2014)

justme, the point is we can't trust a single point of view to form a general opinion, there are too many biases involved for that to be trustworthy.  I admit that my only intimate knowledge of the UK is through a fairly lengthy correspondence with a young lady from Pinner some fifty years ago, we met in San Remo on the Italian Riviera, where she was on holiday.


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## Harley (Jun 12, 2014)

Vixen, is American


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## rt3 (Jun 12, 2014)

in addition to what marinaio said, there are many, many gun laws on the books already. They are not enforced because it would take 1 cop per 5 people to enforce them, (cost prohibitive). Most were passed for political warm and fuzzy to the placate.


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## Bettyann (Jun 12, 2014)

I don't like thinking in terms of 'countries' or anything political. We are humanity. We are sharing this EARTH. I totally dislike the idea of 'better than's' ... I believe there is GOOD in every single person...even if it is well hidden at times. It is time to 'think without borders'... 
I have to think of that age old joke about a Methodist person entering the Pearly Gates and St Peter told the man to keep his voice down. When he asked why, St Peter pointed to a group standing together chatting away. "They are Catholic (Baptist, Mormon, etc, who cares) ...and they think they are the only ones here."


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## Bee (Jun 12, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> You really don't realise how blessed we are, and although imperfect,
> 
> our Democracy is truly Democratic,  whereas in places  in places like the UK,
> 
> ...



Elysabeth, not satisfied with knocking the NHS and now this................if you don't like our system the answer is in your hands.


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 12, 2014)

I'm sick of people trashing America too, if they don't like it, they can always move to another country of their liking.  I'm born and raised in the USA, I'm not very happy with the government past and present, but I love the country and the freedom we have as American citizens.  I would never want to live somewhere else.   I agree with Marinaio that Americans need to be aware of the changes taking place, and do what is needed to keep the liberties that made this country great.  In the least, don't bury their heads in the sand and think all is well.

There are no crazy gun laws here.  It seems that the gun crime rate is higher, but there are many more people in certain congested areas of many different nationalities and backgrounds.  I don't think that the communities are quite as dense in other countries as they are here, and the population in other countries is much more homogeneous. 

 I understand that just a few cities have the highest gun crime, and they are the ones with strict gun control laws.  The criminals and gangs will get their weapons of choice, regardless of whether they strip the responsible law-abiding American citizen from all their guns and rifles.  I don't want a nanny government taking care of me like I'm a baby, and I don't want any of my privacy or freedoms taken away.  As they say, 'those who give up their freedom for security...will have neither'.

As far as TV evangelists, I don't like them, but I don't see what that has to do with the American government.  It's freedom of speech, and if people want to worship them, that is their choice.  They deserve to be preyed upon if they can't think clearly and make those personal religious decisions for themselves.  Should the government 'protect' the gullible from greedy preachers?  I say no, these people have to use their brains and think for themselves.


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## Bee (Jun 12, 2014)

SeaBreeze in her post Elyzabeth said this............._*AND  I'm So tired of hearing anti American sentiments !...........................*_don't you think that can work in reverse to us British, when she knocks the NHS and now our voting system.


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## Davey Jones (Jun 12, 2014)

They vote once every five years,  and you vote for the PARTY you want in power, 

you don't even have the choice of electing who you want to represent you.
.............................................................................................................


Thats the problems with todays American voters,years ago it use to mean something to go to the voting booth and you felt proud of it.
Today, most voters have no idea who or what they are voting for and who stands for what.
The media today just about tells everyone why you should vote for this person or that person because its the right thing to do and America will be better off for it.

To this day we STILL elect the same ones year in and year out and America STILL drags along with it same old policies and it seems those in Congress have no idea what to do about it,except yell and scream at each others for 4 years and accompolise nothing.


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## Justme (Jun 12, 2014)

Bee said:


> Elysabeth, not satisfied with knocking the NHS and now this................if you don't like our system the answer is in your hands.



Well said Bee!


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## Ruthi (Jun 12, 2014)

There are people that are tired of what has been happening in America.  We have been having more violent mass gun killings of schools, work places, etc. than any other country.  Our political system is fighting one another in a most degrading, hateful, manner and the corporations and big, successful businesses have taken over the influence of our government.

So, it is very easy to say to someone who is dis-satisfied with our country "if you don't like it, move to another country of your liking."  So easy to say!  People who have lived here all their lives and have seen the degradation and violence that is taking over in the USA and dare to object to it, then are supposed to like it may I ask in all honesty?


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## Ruthi (Jun 12, 2014)

Oh, and I forgot to add, these same people that have been born and raised and have their roots in the USA. Meaning their forefathers have been here since the mid 1800's,  are supposed to sell their property and all their life's gatherings, say goodbye to their friends and family..all while they, loyally, have worked and paid their taxes honestly and voted every year.  Seems their country is "........." them and not the other way around.


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## Bee (Jun 12, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> You really don't realise how blessed we are, and although imperfect,
> 
> our Democracy is truly Democratic,  whereas in places  in places like the UK,
> 
> ...




That is not quite true, ever heard of a swinging voter???

We can vote for who we feel will be the best person for the job.

I haven't always voted for the same party.


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## Happyflowerlady (Jun 12, 2014)

As she always does, I think that Seabreeze  has expressed very well the sentiments of many of us here in America. We love our country, even with the imperfections, and issues with unscrupulous politicians.  
I think it is right and proper that those of us on the forum who live in other countries, like the UK or Australia, also feel that same heartfelt commitment to their country as well.
No matter where we are from, there will always be benefits and drawbacks to life in that country, but loving the country where you live is a good thing, and a blessing.
Overall, all of us live in some of the countries that have the most freedoms in the world; as compared to many of the countries where people are almost totally controlled, and have no say in their government.
I love this country, and even with the problems we struggle to overcome here; I still want to live in America, and think it is the best place on this earth.


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2014)

Michael. said:


> .
> 
> 
> CONTRASTS BETWEEN THE AMERICAN AND BRITISH POLITICAL SYSTEMS
> ...



That is an excellent link, Michael. In particular it clarifies how we can be using the same words but talking about different concepts.
As an example



> In the US, politicians constantly talk about the problems and the aspirations of the middle class. In the UK, politicians tend to talk more about the needs of the working class. They mean something similar but the language is different because the perceptions are different. In America, the working class is seen as the poor and most citizens perceive themselves as middle-class or aspiring to be so. In Britain, the middle-class is seen as a comfortable minority with the majority of the population perceiving themselves as working class.


I see myself and my family as working class because we are all wage earners rather than small business owners. We work for a boss, not for ourselves, but we could mostly be described as middle income earners. I have one brother in law who is self employed. His lifestyle is roughly the same as ours but his political thinking is much further to the right of ours.


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## Ruthi (Jun 12, 2014)

Maybe you all should start thinking of the violence, drugs and environmental destruction that has been taking place also. We are headed for a great disaster. So many of those imperfections and unscrupulous actions can be prevented if people think hard about what their children and grandchildren are going to face in the future.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

I love America too, and it is the wonderful people that make it up.  Luckily, I don't think "a few bad apples" will spoil America, although it seems they try don't they  There have been may jabs against America and her people online, as well as on our forum but they can't bring America or her people down, only if we let them  I admire you for speaking up.  From another who loves America, Denise PS What is especially hard is people that live in America and seem to find pleasure in griping about things, but if it were found out, I think we would find they rarely ever "try" to make it better


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

Bee said:


> SeaBreeze in her post Elyzabeth said this............._*AND  I'm So tired of hearing anti American sentiments !...........................*_don't you think that can work in reverse to us British, when she knocks the NHS and now our voting system.



Someone is knocking other countries beside the US??  I gotta get out more I guess, never saw that!


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## Ina (Jun 12, 2014)

Denise, I love this country also, but without these kind of discussions, we can't help mold the future of this wonderful country.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

marinaio said:


> I'll won't trash the UK in similar fashion but I have to ask, have you ever spent any time in the US or are you parroting the garbage in the rags over there?



This would be closest to the truth, I am sure many folks who bad-mouth America, are not Americans, first of all, And if they are, I wish they'd go ahead and move, our country allows you to leave.  Hell, even we American's have to weed out the garbage "some" so called Americans are printing about us.  What I find sad, it that so many that are busy trying to make jabs at America, don't seem to have any other interests in their head.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

Ina said:


> Denise, I love this country also, but without these kind of discussions, we can't help mold the future of this wonderful country.



Oh, you mean without people coming against us, we wouldn't stay "fit" in the battle area?  Hmmm, you may have something.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I'm sick of people trashing America too, if they don't like it, they can always move to another country of their liking.  I'm born and raised in the USA, I'm not very happy with the government past and present, but I love the country and the freedom we have as American citizens.  I would never want to live somewhere else.   I agree with Marinaio that Americans need to be aware of the changes taking place, and do what is needed to keep the liberties that made this country great.  In the least, don't bury their heads in the sand and think all is well.
> 
> There are no crazy gun laws here.  It seems that the gun crime rate is higher, but there are many more people in certain congested areas of many different nationalities and backgrounds.  I don't think that the communities are quite as dense in other countries as they are here, and the population in other countries is much more homogeneous.
> 
> ...



Ditto, yes, what she said:yougogirl:


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

I saw this and it put things in perspective for me. For the most part, I see the lights mean population, correct me if I'm wrong.  Also, the heaviest population, at last seems like it "might" have come from the UK or nearby. I'm just guessing plus a little history.  I said this before, that America has always been known as the melting pot, by some people, like my teachers, may have even read it in a school-book.  Ok, so America is made up of a little bit of everyone on the face of the planet.  If you are against America, you are probably coming against some of your own "homegrown" relatives, LOL!  I just find that funny, but I do have other things I would rather talk to people about than certain topics that start here.  But that's also America for you, though imperfect, I like being able to speak up without fearing for my life, most of the time Denise


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

Justme said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmm! I am sure many Americans are very pleasant people. But I thank my lucky stars I live in the UK, the NHS might not be perfect, but at least it is free at point of need to all. We don't have the US crazy gun culture, which causes so many tragedies. We aren't a flag waving nation on the whole, and we don't have the highly unpleasant god botherers to the same extent as they do, and the ghastly TV evangelist scam merchants who prey on the gullible.



I'm glad you are in the UK too!!  Check that map out I posted, population difference could have something to do with the stats  Do you live where there are more lights on, or less lights?


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

Vixen said:


> Vixen, is American


  Hey, you got to change your name!!  I want abinormal, LOL!! Denise


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2014)

nwlady said:


> I saw this and it put things in perspective for me. For the most part, I see the lights mean population, correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> View attachment 7620


Things aren't always what they seem without a bit of analysis.

Take a look at Australia on that graphic. 
Note where most of the light is coming from.
It should be coming from the east coast population centres of Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne.
Instead there are a lot of lights coming from the unpopulated inland areas.

The satellite was passing over during the Summer and those lights are from extensive bushfires.
Local knowledge is very useful.
That's one reason why I like discussing America with Americans.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Things aren't always what they seem without a bit of analysis.
> 
> Take a look at Australia on that graphic.
> Note where most of the light is coming from.
> ...



Ok, well, where the hell is Austrailia?  I know it's "down under" something, :lofl: Am I starting to understand your humor Dame??

But not all the lights are bushfires, so what I'm saying is, more population, of course more problems, I guess unless you happen to belong to an ant colony


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2014)

Here's a hint. It's not south of Germany.

Regarding the size of the population - global crime figures are usually quoted as so many per 100,000 which allows for comparisons between countries with different populations.

For example, if we are comparing rates of burglaries, Australia is top of the list of OECD countries with 1,530/100,000 and US is only ninth with 730/100,000. On the other hand when it comes to murder by firearm, The USA is tenth with 32.6/1,000,000 and Australia ranks 36th with 3/1,000,000. That's a tenfold difference. For the record, South Africa is the worst by far with 700/1,000,000. (stats from 2006 on this page http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murders-with-firearms-per-million )

 For a nation founded by convicts, it would seem that we are still a nation of thieves. :lol:


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Here's a hint. It's not south of Germany.
> 
> Regarding the size of the population - global crime figures are usually quoted as so many per 100,000 which allows for comparisons between countries with different populations.
> 
> ...



Ok, that makes sense on "how they figure these stats out". But it seems hard to choose which "chunk" to compare?  Maybe I just don't go along with the stats, seems more logical the more crowded the more crime, but I figure you know a couple things I don'tlayful:  I'm still wondering how I got bulgaries out of burglaries (cleaning glasses now).

It's Southeast right?


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2014)

Southeast across the Pacific Ocean. 
With a stopover in Hawaii.

Oops! Silly me.
That's south*west* across the Pacific Ocean.


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## Harley (Jun 12, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Hey, you got to change your name!!  I want abinormal, LOL!! Denise



Yes, I asked to go with a shorter version. 

Just ask admin..


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## lucy (Jun 12, 2014)

Thank you! We are a democratic republic. Look in any elementary social studies book. It's so sad that most people don't know the name, much less the voting record, of their representatives who are making the laws!


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

Oh crap, every time I think I know something, you mess me up, LOL!  Ok, are we talking air-travel?  Maybe I really don't know where Australia is:lofl:I'm across the Pacific from Germany, with Hawaii in between.  Your Southeast of Germany with a stop-over in Oh-Man, I mean Oman!  Hmm, Sumatra looks inviting?  I know, my mind wanders.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 12, 2014)

Vixen said:


> Yes, I asked to go with a shorter version.
> 
> Just ask admin..



Did you have to bribe him with anything? LOL!!  I might give it a go Would be fun to have that nick, the shoe certainly fits, LOL Thanks Vixen Denise


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## Bee (Jun 12, 2014)

I can't help wondering if some of you actually read the original post and the title of this thread.

Elyzabeth the original poster is an American lady living in the U.K...her last sentence said.................._*AND  I'm So tired of hearing anti American sentiments !.........*_and yet she has the audacity to knock the NHS ( this was on another thread) where she has most probably taken advantage of it with  no bills to pay when she has seen a doctor or hospital visit and no prescription to pay for after the age of 60..............then on this thread she knocks our voting system which by the way she had got wrong and doesn't understand.....................and that is why I posted as I did on post number no. 15 and subsequent posts I made, I can't speak for Justme but I can understand why she posted as she did and also Vivjen.

I can understand Americans getting upset when their country is being knocked well it also works for the British as well.


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## Elyzabeth (Jun 12, 2014)

justme said:


> hmmmmmmmmmm! I am sure many americans are very pleasant people. But i thank my lucky stars i live in the uk, the nhs might not be perfect, but at least it is free at point of need to all. We don't have the us crazy gun culture, which causes so many tragedies. We aren't a flag waving nation on the whole, and we don't have the highly unpleasant god botherers to the same extent as they do, and the ghastly tv evangelist scam merchants who prey on the gullible.




typical !


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## Elyzabeth (Jun 12, 2014)

" I NEVER "KNOCKED THE NHS ! "

iT IS WONDERFUL, I'M GRATEFUL FOR IT AND I ALWAYS SING IT'S PRAISES. 

HOWEVER IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT, THE MEDICAL CARE IN AMERICA IS SUPERIOR,
 AS WELL IT SHOULD BE AS IT COSTS A FORTUNE

AS AN AMERICAN WHEN I FIND FAULT WITH MY COUNTRY , I SPEAK OUT ABOUT IT AND TRY , 
IF POSSIBLE TO GET PROBLEMS NOTICED AND CORRECTED. 

THE BRITISH TAKE IT AS AN INSULT IF YOU DO THE SAME IN THE UK.


I LOVE BOTH COUNTRIES 

 I AM A CITIZEN OF BOTH COUNTRIES

 AND I VOTE IN BOTH COUNTRIES.

I CONSIDER MYSELF TO BE EXTREMELY FORTUNATE

(please excuse the caps easier for me to see what I'm writing)


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## Bee (Jun 12, 2014)

_*THE BRITISH TAKE IT AS AN INSULT IF YOU DO THE SAME IN THE UK.

*_Isn't that exactly what the Americans do?????


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## Pam (Jun 13, 2014)

If I find fault with my country then I will try and do something and so will a lot of British people. But it is only human nature to go on the defensive when someone from another country finds fault. In the same way as most Americans would go on the defensive when outsiders criticise the US. 

As for our NHS, we do have a choice here. If you don't like it/unhappy with it then you can always pay to go privately as a one off treatment or you can pay into a private healthcare scheme such as BUPA.


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## Warrigal (Jun 13, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Oh crap, every time I think I know something, you mess me up, LOL!  Ok, are we talking air-travel?  Maybe I really don't know where Australia is:lofl:I'm across the Pacific from Germany, with Hawaii in between.  Your Southeast of Germany with a stop-over in Oh-Man, I mean Oman!  Hmm, Sumatra looks inviting?  I know, my mind wanders.
> View attachment 7642



Sorry NWLady. I completely stuffed up the directions.
Austria is south east of Germany. Australia is SW of the USA, across the Pacific.
We were both being so ironic we got completely bamboozled.


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## Warrigal (Jun 13, 2014)

Elysabeth said:
			
		

> I LOVE BOTH COUNTRIES
> I AM A CITIZEN OF BOTH COUNTRIES
> AND I VOTE IN BOTH COUNTRIES.



At the risk of introducing another red herring, I'm intrigued by this statement. 
As I understand it, if I were to apply for US citizenship I would have to renounce my Australian citizenship.
I understand this is what Rupert Murdoch did. I may be wrong, of course.

Are you telling me that an American citizen can take out citizenship of a foreign country and still retain US citizenship?
Is this a recent development or has it always been this way?


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## Pam (Jun 13, 2014)

http://www.immigrationunitedstates.org/products/double-citizenship.html

I have a friend who has UK/US/Canadian citizenship.


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## Warrigal (Jun 13, 2014)

Fascinating. Thanks Pam.

I note the word recently in there somewhere.


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## Bee (Jun 13, 2014)

I noticed this in Pam's link.....

_*Not every country allow double citizenship, most European countries ask you to choose and keep only one citizenship

*_I have a 12 month old grandson born in Belgium, his mother is French and father is English, he is allowed to have both a French and British passport but must wait until he is 18 before he can apply for citizenship of Belgium.


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## Warrigal (Jun 13, 2014)

Australians are allowed dual citizenship but if someone wants to stand for parliament he/she must renounce any foreign citizenship before being elected. A couple of British citizens have been caught out by this rule. Either they never bothered to take out Australian citizenship or they had dual citizenship.


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## Pappy (Jun 13, 2014)

About as close to Australia as I'll get it what my son told me. He has been there and New Zealand on trips from his job at NSA.
He said that they are both beautiful places and the people are fantastic. In fact. He wants to go back at some point in his life.  It sounds like a place I would love to visit but it will be only in my dreams.
i love my country, as screwed up as it is, and would never give an opinion about something I know nothing about until I was able to see for myself. 
This is a great forum and to be able to communicate with folks all over the world is amazing to this old guy.


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## Mirabilis (Jun 13, 2014)

Thank you Elyzabeth.  No complaints here .


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## Ruthi (Jun 13, 2014)

nwlady said:


> I love America too, and it is the wonderful people that make it up.  Luckily, I don't think "a few bad apples" will spoil America, although it seems they try don't they  There have been may jabs against America and her people online, as well as on our forum but they can't bring America or her people down, only if we let them  I admire you for speaking up.  From another who loves America, Denise PS What is especially hard is people that live in America and seem to find pleasure in griping about things, but if it were found out, I think we would find they rarely ever "try" to make it better



"A few bad apples!!" Where have you been hiding lady? People who love America have tried and tried to make it better but have been taken to task by the big corporations and Congress nay sayers and blue dogs. Can't say much for the tea party group because last I heard they are fading into the background somewhat.  

You are darned right people should gripe about "things" that aren't right in America.  What should we do sit and twidle our thumbs and watch someone  else "try to make it better"?  I'm an old lady and have seen what the right sort of "griping" and hollering and writing to the right people can accomplish.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 13, 2014)

Bee said:


> _*THE BRITISH TAKE IT AS AN INSULT IF YOU DO THE SAME IN THE UK.
> 
> *_Isn't that exactly what the Americans do?????



I don't take it as an insult when Americans gripe about America, I gripe about America, but I better be ready to do something about the problem if I'm going to complain.  If someone hasn't walked in my shoes, they don't know what it is like, and can yack all day but they don't know anything.  It's the same for a country, until we have lived in a country, we don't really know much, although some seem to think so.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 13, 2014)

Ruthi said:


> "A few bad apples!!" Where have you been hiding lady? People who love America have tried and tried to make it better but have been taken to task by the big corporations and Congress nay sayers and blue dogs. Can't say much for the tea party group because last I heard they are fading into the background somewhat.
> 
> You are darned right people should gripe about "things" that aren't right in America.  What should we do sit and twidle our thumbs and watch someone  else "try to make it better"?  I'm an old lady and have seen what the right sort of "griping" and hollering and writing to the right people can accomplish.



I'm not hiding anywhere, what are you, talking numbers of bad people in America?  Well whatever, but I choose to believe we have many more good folks than bad.  So comparatively speaking, yes, a few bad apples.  Our country has always had it's struggles, I'm not sure where you are coming from, but I mentioned somewhere that being "great" has it's price, always someone wanting to knock you down.  For me personally, struggles have made me stronger, I think the same for America.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 13, 2014)

Pam said:


> If I find fault with my country then I will try and do something and so will a lot of British people. But it is only human nature to go on the defensive when someone from another country finds fault. In the same way as most Americans would go on the defensive when outsiders criticise the US.
> 
> As for our NHS, we do have a choice here. If you don't like it/unhappy with it then you can always pay to go privately as a one off treatment or you can pay into a private healthcare scheme such as BUPA.



Thanks Pam, I enjoy reading what you have to say.  I'm much more inclined to discuss anything with someone that has good, people skills Denise


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## Denise1952 (Jun 13, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Sorry NWLady. I completely stuffed up the directions.
> Austria is south east of Germany. Australia is SW of the USA, across the Pacific.
> We were both being so ironic we got completely bamboozled.



LOL, just saw this I've always known where Australia is, it's those itti bitti countries that pop up in conversation, the ones I've never heard of!  There are a lot of countries on this ole dirt-clod hurtling through space


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## Warrigal (Jun 13, 2014)

That's the trouble with irony, isn't it? It can be confusing.
For a moment I thought you might have been one of the people who confuse Australia with Austria.
But that's a whole other thread.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 13, 2014)

Yes, and flunking geography could be a problem as well:lofl:


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## Bee (Jun 13, 2014)

nwlady said:


> I don't take it as an insult when Americans gripe about America, I gripe about America, but I better be ready to do something about the problem if I'm going to complain.  If someone hasn't walked in my shoes, they don't know what it is like, and can yack all day but they don't know anything.  It's the same for a country, until we have lived in a country, we don't really know much, although some seem to think so.



Another misunderstanding.............if I as a British citizen was living in America and criticised it, would you or would you not be defensive and take it as an insult????

Pam and myself were more or less saying the same thing but worded differently.


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## SeaBreeze (Jun 13, 2014)

We all complain about America sometimes, but it's usually related to the politicians in power and their actions (or non-actions).  No matter how bad things appear to be sometimes, I'd never want to live out my days anywhere else in the world.  I don't take it personally if Americans gripe about the US...if I ask where they would prefer to live, they usually have no other choice.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 13, 2014)

Bee said:


> Another misunderstanding.............if I as a British citizen was living in America and criticised it, would you or would you not be defensive and take it as an insult????
> 
> Pam and myself were more or less saying the same thing but worded differently.



If that person has dual-citizenship, they have the right to complain, like any other citizen.  I believe Elizabeth has dual citizenship??  Again, if a citizen is going to complain, they can either move or do what they can (vote, whatever).  Am I missing something here, because I don't see where I misunderstood anything? Denise

PS I find Americans that complain would still NEVER think of giving up their citizenship  It's kind of like complaining about your children, but you would kill for them.  And no one else better come against them, know what I'm saying?


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## Warrigal (Jun 13, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Yes, and flunking geography could be a problem as well:lofl:



Flunking is an improvement on me. I never had a geography lesson in my life. I'm totally self mistaught.


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## Bee (Jun 14, 2014)

nwlady said:


> If that person has dual-citizenship, they have the right to complain, like any other citizen.  I believe Elizabeth has dual citizenship??  Again, if a citizen is going to complain, they can either move or do what they can (vote, whatever).  Am I missing something here, because I don't see where I misunderstood anything? Denise
> 
> PS I find Americans that complain would still NEVER think of giving up their citizenship  It's kind of like complaining about your children, but you would kill for them.  And no one else better come against them, know what I'm saying?



No I don't know what you are saying and I don't care whether a person has dual citizenship or not, as far as I am concerned Elyzabeth is a guest in my country and as such I do not expect her to criticise things here, especially the voting system when it is clear she does not understand it.

As I said in another post if Elyzabeth doesn't like things here...............the answer is in her hands.

Just before I go, are you saying it is ok for Elyzabeth to say.................AND  I'm So tired of hearing anti American sentiments !...........but it is NOT ok for the British to say it in reverse.?????

Anyway I am out of this now because it is very clear to me that the majority of the posts on here just do not understand where the British posters are coming from.


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## hollydolly (Jun 14, 2014)

Well I've read all this, and it's absolutely natural for everyone to defend their own country IMO...thank God they are patriotic, even if we can see the faults in our own countries and may even wish at times to live in another country 


I can understand Elyzabeths' feelings about hearing anti American rhetoric sometimes...but it happens everywhere about every nationality.

We in the UK might make  generalized  comments about Americans....just as Americans do about the British...some will be right and some will be totally off the mark..

On the whole  in the UK do have a much better relationship with Americans and Australians than we perhaps do even with some Europeans or Asians

However I have to agree with Bee, and all my other country folk with regard to the OP ....there is a school of thought...when in Rome  don't bite the hand that feeds you...well not publicly anyway.


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## Warrigal (Jun 14, 2014)

Time to call a truce, I think. I also think that with the traditions of free and frank speech we all enjoy in the Anglosphere, there is no need to be upset by anything someone else says on line. 

I will continue to make observations about any country on this planet. I will try to be polite but I won't be coerced into silence. Nor should anyone else. Let's not start a shooting war over a bit of criticism. We're all supposed to be friends and allies.


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## hollydolly (Jun 14, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Time to call a truce, I think. I also think that with the traditions of free and frank speech we all enjoy in the Anglosphere, there is no need to be upset by anything someone else says on line.
> 
> I will continue to make observations about any country on this planet. I will try to be polite but I won't be coerced into silence. Nor should anyone else. Let's not start a shooting war over a bit of criticism. We're all supposed to be friends and allies.




Too true Warrigal... I agree  but it's good that it can be discussed


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## Vivjen (Jun 14, 2014)

I agree too.....I loved Geography; now I wish I had carried on with it!


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## rkunsaw (Jun 14, 2014)

> Let's not start a shooting war over a bit of criticism.



:lol: You'd lose, you don't have a gun. :lol:  

I do agree there is no need to get mad. Even the ones on here I most often disagree with I will agree with on some subjects.


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## Elyzabeth (Jun 14, 2014)

At the risk of introducing another red herring, I'm intrigued by this statement. 
 As I understand it, if I were to apply for US citizenship I would have to renounce my Australian citizenship.
 I understand this is what Rupert Murdoch did. I may be wrong, of course.

 Are you telling me that an American citizen can take out citizenship of a foreign country and still retain US citizenship?
 Is this a recent development or has it always been this way? 

I don't know about any "foreign country"?


 You are permitted to have dual citizenship in both  the US and UK.
Not easy , but it can be done.


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## Warrigal (Jun 14, 2014)

Perhaps there has to be a mutual agreement between the two countries.
I really have no idea about it.


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## Elyzabeth (Jun 14, 2014)

That seems to be he case.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 14, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Time to call a truce, I think. I also think that with the traditions of free and frank speech we all enjoy in the Anglosphere, there is no need to be upset by anything someone else says on line.
> 
> I will continue to make observations about any country on this planet. I will try to be polite but I won't be coerced into silence. Nor should anyone else. Let's not start a shooting war over a bit of criticism. We're all supposed to be friends and allies.



That's the way I see it Dame, I've never disliked another country, only the things that have happened against America, and that wasn't the "whole" country that came against us. There are good folks in every country and there are also pinheads in every country.  It's the same online, and I hope I always stand up for what I believe to be right, and against what I believe to be wrong.  I don't care where a person is from when it comes to standing for right, or standing against wrong.


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## Denise1952 (Jun 14, 2014)

Elyzabeth said:


> At the risk of introducing another red herring, I'm intrigued by this statement.
> As I understand it, if I were to apply for US citizenship I would have to renounce my Australian citizenship.
> I understand this is what Rupert Murdoch did. I may be wrong, of course.
> 
> ...



I don't know about that, I will have to google it, LOL!  I doubt it though, I don't think any of our famous stars that come from Australia have given up there citizenship, to become US Citizens?  Interesting


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## Warrigal (Jun 14, 2014)

Mel Gibson is an interesting case. Originally American by birth, he came to Australia aged 12 but he has never held Australian nationality (ref: WikiAnswers). He first studied acting in New Zealand, later at NIDA . He now holds dual American and Irish nationality. His family background is rather complex.



> Gibson was born the sixth of eleven children, and the second son of Hutton Gibson and Irish-born Anne Patricia (née Reilly, died 1990).[SUP][[/SUP] His paternal grandmother was opera contralto Eva Mylott (1875–1920), who was born in Australia, to Irish parents, while his paternal grandfather had English, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh ancestry. One of Gibson's younger brothers, Donal, is also an actor. Gibson's first name comes from Saint Mel, fifth-century Irish saint, and founder of Gibson's mother's native diocese, Ardagh, while his second name, Colm-Cille, is also shared by an Irish saint and is the name of the parish in County Longford where Gibson's mother was born and raised. Because of his mother, Gibson holds dual Irish and American citizenship.


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