# BACK PAIN: Seeking Advice



## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

Someone, please advise me.

I suffered from acute lower back pain for many years. They disappeared almost entirely until last year. The thing is, if I sleep on the sofa I wake with no pain in my back but if I sleep on my bed I’m in deep trouble.

I’ve always used a very firm mattress so last year when the problem resurfaced I switched mattresses with my wife thinking the softer one might cure the problem. Nope. It made no difference at all so I’ve been sleeping on the sofa for about a year now. Last night I thought maybe I could go back to the bedroom and sleep next to my wife again. Oh no! It was *bad*. So tonight I’ll be back on the sofa. But I don’t want to spend the rest of my life sleeping in the living room and at this rate, I won’t be able to go abroad whenever the Corona thing finally lets us travel again.

You’re probably thinking, _“Go to a chiropractor!”_ and I guess that’s what I’ll have to do but if you’ve got a good idea or two … I’d be very thankful and willing to try whatever you suggest.

Respects,
Verisure


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

I've been sleeping on a Tempur Pedic for 17 years. I tried it out of desperation because of low back pain. I'd get up & walk around every two hours for relief. I went through two Serta beds - one firm & one with a pillow top.  Neither helped.
After a week with the Tempur Pedic, I've forgotten what back & neck pain feels like. I'll get a minor backache maybe once or twice a year when I overdo yard work.

I think the problem is not just a soft or a firm mattress; the problem is that our back is curved like an "S" & a firm mattress cannot shape itself to the curve in our back & a soft mattress will allow sagging in the heavier areas.  A memory foam mattress reacts to body heat & conforms perfectly to the back within a few minutes; that's how it works.
I noticed that while lying on a regular mattress, I can slip my hand under my lower back due to the gap, but on a Tempur Pedic mattress, there is no gap.  I also noted that with my previous mattress, everything that was on the bed (clothes, magazines, TV remotes, etc.) was on the floor by morning, which indicates lots of movement during sleep.  With the Tempur Pedic, nothing is on the floor.  And no numbness in the arms, hands & shoulders, regardless of what sleep position I'm in.


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## Rosemarie (Apr 6, 2021)

There would seem to be something about the sofa which suits you better. You need to figure out what it is. I also sleep better on the sofa but I think it's because there is more 'give' in it. I can curl up on my side and the sofa moulds itself to me, while my mattress is more rigid. Also, the sofa is narrower so I tend to stay in one position all night.


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## MarciKS (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> I've been sleeping on a Tempur Pedic for 17 years. I tried it out of desperation because of low back pain. I'd get up & walk around every two hours for relief. I went through two Serta beds - one firm & one with a pillow top.  Neither helped.
> After a week with the Tempur Pedic, I've forgotten what back & neck pain feels like. I'll get a minor backache maybe once or twice a year when I overdo yard work.
> 
> I think the problem is not just a soft or a firm mattress; the problem is that our back is curved like an "S" & a firm mattress cannot shape itself to the curve in our back & a soft mattress will allow sagging in the heavier areas.  A memory foam mattress reacts to body heat & conforms perfectly to the back within a few minutes; that's how it works.
> I noticed that while lying on a regular mattress, I can slip my hand under my lower back due to the gap, but on a Tempur Pedic mattress, there is no gap.  I also noted that with my previous mattress, everything that was on the bed (clothes, magazines, TV remotes, etc.) was on the floor by morning, which indicates lots of movement during sleep.  With the Tempur Pedic, nothing is on the floor.  And no numbness in the arms, hands & shoulders, regardless of what sleep position I'm in.


So did you have a particular style? Firm...soft...you know what I mean? Or are they all just the same or what?


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## Murrmurr (Apr 6, 2021)

I have a number of back problems. I sleep best on the Purple mattress I bought a couple years ago. https://purple.com

I used an inversion table for many years. Hung upside down at about 70-80 degrees for 10 minutes or so twice a day. It helped immensely. I sold the inversion table after my last surgery because they put metal rods in my back that time and I didn't want to stress the hardware.


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## Chet (Apr 6, 2021)

Maybe it's your wife.  
Seriously though, perhaps the mattress in the bed is being deformed in such a way by the weight of your wife.


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## hollydolly (Apr 6, 2021)

Chet said:


> Maybe it's your wife.
> Seriously though, perhaps the mattress in the bed is being deformed in such a way by the weight of your wife.


Actually that's a very good point, it could be that buying 2 single beds with different mattresses or a king size with 2 zipped mattresses of different weights  may resolve the problem of being able to sleep in the same room...


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## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

Rosemarie said:


> There would seem to be something about the sofa which suits you better. You need to figure out what it is. I also sleep better on the sofa but I think it's because there is more 'give' in it. I can curl up on my side and the sofa moulds itself to me, while my mattress is more rigid. Also, the sofa is narrower so I tend to stay in one position all night.


Every single word you've written is exactly the thoughts I have myself.


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## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> I've been sleeping on a Tempur Pedic for 17 years. I tried it out of desperation because of low back pain. I'd get up & walk around every two hours for relief. I went through two Serta beds - one firm & one with a pillow top.  Neither helped.
> After a week with the Tempur Pedic, I've forgotten what back & neck pain feels like. I'll get a minor backache maybe once or twice a year when I overdo yard work.
> 
> I think the problem is not just a soft or a firm mattress; the problem is that our back is curved like an "S" & a firm mattress cannot shape itself to the curve in our back & a soft mattress will allow sagging in the heavier areas.  A memory foam mattress reacts to body heat & conforms perfectly to the back within a few minutes; that's how it works.
> I noticed that while lying on a regular mattress, I can slip my hand under my lower back due to the gap, but on a Tempur Pedic mattress, there is no gap.  I also noted that with my previous mattress, everything that was on the bed (clothes, magazines, TV remotes, etc.) was on the floor by morning, which indicates lots of movement during sleep.  With the Tempur Pedic, nothing is on the floor.  And no numbness in the arms, hands & shoulders, regardless of what sleep position I'm in.


This what you say about "movement" during the night looks like it could be important. I've had that thought too and Rosemarie also mentioned it. I think there is something in it. Did you buy your Tempur Pedic just to try it on your own or was it recommended by professionals ... and what was the reason they recommended it?


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## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I have a number of back problems. I sleep best on the Purple mattress I bought a couple years ago. https://purple.com
> 
> I used an inversion table for many years. Hung upside down at about 70-80 degrees for 10 minutes or so twice a day. It helped immensely. I sold the inversion table after my last surgery because they put metal rods in my back that time and I didn't want to stress the hardware.


I don't know what a purple mattress is but I'll look it up.


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## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

Chet said:


> Maybe it's your wife.
> Seriously though, perhaps the mattress in the bed is being deformed in such a way by the weight of your wife.


Ha-ha! I have no bedsprings (I use foam mattresses) and my wife is much, much lighter than I.


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## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Actually that's a very good point, it could be that buying 2 single beds with different mattresses or a king size with 2 zipped mattresses of different weights  may resolve the problem of being able to sleep in the same room...


We have a large bed with two foam mattresses side by side. One very firm (mine until recently) and one softer (my wife's until I decided to switch them).


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> So did you have a particular style? Firm...soft...you know what I mean? Or are they all just the same or what?


At the time I bought it, they only offered one style.  Now, there are many.  But they still have a home trial.  I don't know how long it is now, but when I bought it it was 4 months.


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## MarciKS (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> At the time I bought it, they only offered one style.  Now, there are many.  But they still have a home trial.  I don't know how long it is now, but when I bought it it was 4 months.


May I ask what style yours is just as a reference point?


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## MarciKS (Apr 6, 2021)

@Verisure about the foam mattresses...
7 Ways a Memory Foam Mattress Can Hurt Your Back (bedroomstylereviews.com)


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

Verisure said:


> This what you say about "movement" during the night looks like it could be important. I've had that thought too and Rosemarie also mentioned it. I think there is something in it. Did you buy your Tempur Pedic just to try it on your own or was it recommended by professionals ... and what was the reason they recommended it?


I heard about it but no one recommended it.  The doctor only recommended drugs.
I was up most of the night for months because I could only sleep for an hour or two at a time.  I was watching TV at 4am & that 30-minute commercial was on.  I figured, "What the heck; I can return it if it doesn't work."  Besides, I was desperate.
My pain didn't improve - until a week on the bed.  I woke up, thinking it was around 2am because that's when I'd get up & walk around the house to relieve pain.  I looked at the clock & saw that it was 7am & NO back pain.  I couldn't believe it.
The bed seemed to "fix" my back; maybe it re-aligns the discs over time during sleep.


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## ohioboy (Apr 6, 2021)

Verisure, MY view of Chiropractors is, they are nothing more than MASSAGERS with a Doctorate. They did absolutely nothing for me after 40 visits after I got rear ended hard. Long story, but it infuriated me.


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> @Verisure about the foam mattresses...
> 7 Ways a Memory Foam Mattress Can Hurt Your Back (bedroomstylereviews.com)


That may apply to the cheaper "Imitation" memory foam mattresses I've seen over the past few years.  There may be a difference in design or quality.
My Tempur Pedic's firmness/softness is _totally _dependent on temperature.  In winter, the mattress is much too firm, almost like a wooden board _*when I first lie on it.*_  When the room is cold, it takes 30-40 minutes for it to conform to me.  After that, body heat makes it mold to whoever is on it perfectly.  In fact, if you lie on it, then get up, you'll see a perfect detailed mold of yourself on the mattress for a few seconds - even indentations where your elbow & heels were.
In summer, the mattress is softer & it conforms to me in a few seconds. 
I don't know if the imitation mattresses work as well.


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## MarciKS (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> That may apply to the cheaper "Imitation" memory foam mattresses I've seen over the past few years.  There may be a difference in design or quality.
> My Tempur Pedic's firmness/softness is _totally _dependent on temperature.  In winter, the mattress is much too firm, almost like a wooden board _*when I first lie on it.*_  When the room is cold, it takes 30-40 minutes for it to conform to me.  After that, body heat makes it mold to whoever is on it perfectly.  In fact, if you lie on it, then get up, you'll see a perfect detailed mold of yourself on the mattress for a few seconds - even indentations where your elbow & heels were.
> In summer, the mattress is softer & it conforms to me in a few seconds.
> I don't know if the imitation mattresses work as well.


What style is yours Win?


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> May I ask what style yours is just as a reference point?


Mine is one of the first designs when they started advertising them 20 years ago when they only offered one style.
Their website describes what might be my model as a "Classic."
https://www.tempurpedic.com/


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I have a number of back problems. I sleep best on the Purple mattress I bought a couple years ago. https://purple.com
> 
> I used an inversion table for many years. Hung upside down at about 70-80 degrees for 10 minutes or so twice a day. It helped immensely. I sold the inversion table after my last surgery because they put metal rods in my back that time and I didn't want to stress the hardware.


I've heard about the purple mattress & pillows.  Looks like a similar idea - material that conforms to whoever is sleeping on it.


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## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> @Verisure about the foam mattresses...
> 7 Ways a Memory Foam Mattress Can Hurt Your Back (bedroomstylereviews.com)


I don't know what a Memory Foam Mattress is.


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## MarciKS (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> Mine is one of the first designs when they started advertising them 20 years ago when they only offered one style.
> Their website describes what might be my model as a "Classic."
> https://www.tempurpedic.com/


Thank you. I know at some point I'm gonna hafta look at a better bed. This one is still fairly new. It's doing a pretty good job.


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## MarciKS (Apr 6, 2021)

Verisure said:


> I don't know what a Memory Foam Mattress is.


Memory Foam is basically a foam mattress. It's conforming but not all foam mattresses are good for a persons back.


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## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> I heard about it but no one recommended it.  The doctor only recommended drugs.
> I was up most of the night for months because I could only sleep for an hour or two at a time.  I was watching TV at 4am & that 30-minute commercial was on.  I figured, "What the heck; I can return it if it doesn't work."  Besides, I was desperate.
> My pain didn't improve - until a week on the bed.  I woke up, thinking it was around 2am because that's when I'd get up & walk around the house to relieve pain.  I looked at the clock & saw that it was 7am & NO back pain.  I couldn't believe it.
> The bed seemed to "fix" my back; maybe it re-aligns the discs over time during sleep.


I have also had the up-every-hour experience (for different reasons) and it's hell so I know what you mean. But man that's great that you solved your problem!  You give me optimism that hope* is* possible! It's a shame about doctors and their short-cut drugs remedy for everything under the sun. Over here they recommend Alvedon even before you _"say ah"._


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## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> Memory Foam is basically a foam mattress. It's conforming but not all foam mattresses are good for a persons back.


I always thought my extra stiff foam mattress was great (and it was) but no longer.


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

Verisure said:


> I don't know what a Memory Foam Mattress is.


Memory foam was developed in 1966 under a contract by NASA's Ames Research Center to improve the safety of aircraft cushions. The temperature-sensitive memory foam was initially referred to as "slow spring back foam"; most called it "temper foam".[5] Created by feeding gas into a polymer matrix, the foam has an open-cell solid structure that matches pressure against it, yet slowly springs back to its original shape.[6]

Later commercialisation of the foam included use in both medical equipment such as X-ray table pads and sports equipment such as American / Canadian football helmet liners.

When NASA released memory foam to the public domain in the early 1980s, Fagerdala World Foams was one of the few companies willing to work with the foam, as the manufacturing process remained difficult and unreliable. Their 1991 product, the "Tempur-Pedic Swedish Mattress" eventually led to the mattress and cushion company, Tempur World.

Memory foam was subsequently used in medical settings. For example, it was commonly used in cases where the patient was required to lie immobile in their bed on a firm mattress for an unhealthy period of time. The pressure on some of their body regions impaired the blood flow to the region, causing pressure sores or gangrene. Memory foam mattresses significantly decreased such events.[5]

Memory foam was initially too expensive for widespread use, but became cheaper. Its most common domestic uses are mattresses, pillows, shoes and blankets. It has medical uses, such as wheelchair seat cushions, hospital bed pillows and padding for people suffering long-term pain or postural problems; for example, a memory foam cervical pillow may alleviate chronic neck pain. Its heat-retaining properties may help some pain sufferers who find the added warmth helps to decrease the pain.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_foam


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

Verisure said:


> I have also had the up-every-hour experience (for different reasons) and it's hell so I know what you mean. But man that's great that you solved your problem!  You give me optimism that hope* is* possible! It's a shame about doctors and their short-cut drugs remedy for everything under the sun. Over here they recommend Alvedon even before you _"say ah"._


Yes - Children are bored & don't concentrate in school?  Drugs.
Are you depressed?  Drugs.
Wanna lose weight?   Drugs & surgery
Wanna be 20 again & satisfy her all night?  Drugs      
Etc.....etc....


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## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> Memory foam was developed in 1966 under a contract by NASA's Ames Research Center to improve the safety of aircraft cushions. The temperature-sensitive memory foam was initially referred to as "slow spring back foam"; most called it "temper foam".[5] Created by feeding gas into a polymer matrix, the foam has an open-cell solid structure that matches pressure against it, yet slowly springs back to its original shape.[6]
> 
> Later commercialisation of the foam included use in both medical equipment such as X-ray table pads and sports equipment such as American / Canadian football helmet liners.
> 
> ...


I suppose that's what my mattress is then but it's embarrassing not knowing what memory foam is because I'm from Sweden.


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## Verisure (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> Yes - Children are bored & don't concentrate in school?  Drugs.
> Are you depressed?  Drugs.
> Wanna lose weight?   Drugs & surgery
> Wanna be 20 again & satisfy her all night?  Drugs
> Etc.....etc....


I'm one of those fuddy-duddies who only take aspirin if I really, really need it and the pain is seriously about to destroy me.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> I've heard about the purple mattress & pillows.  Looks like a similar idea - material that conforms to whoever is sleeping on it.


It isn't foam, though, it's sort of a hybrid of foam and gel that's molded into a grid shape. And it's purple. But only on the inside. The outside is covered with thick, comfy, white fabric that's quilted on the top.


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## MarciKS (Apr 6, 2021)

Verisure said:


> I suppose that's what my mattress is then but it's embarrassing not knowing what memory foam is because I'm from Sweden.


Also how old is the mattress on the bed?


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 6, 2021)

Verisure said:


> Someone, please advise me.
> 
> I suffered from acute lower back pain for many years. They disappeared almost entirely until last year. The thing is, if I sleep on the sofa I wake with no pain in my back but if I sleep on my bed I’m in deep trouble.
> 
> ...


No DON’T see a chiropractor


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## Mike (Apr 6, 2021)

I, too, suffer from lower back problems Verisure, I have a hot
shower as soon as I get out of bed in the morning, I also have
2 paracetamols at breakfast, they are painkillers, if it gets really
bad like the last few days, I get some "Deep Heat" rubbed in to
the area, it works better than ibuprofen gel which is very good.

I don't know where you are in the world, so you might not be able
to get any deep heat cream, it is made in Scotland, but probably
exported.

Good luck.

Mike.


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## Keesha (Apr 6, 2021)

Wow! Tempur Pedic mattresses on sale for only $4,713 
Yoga stretches 
Epsom salts baths 
Cold rub or hot rub ointment 
If still sore Robaxecel or back pain meds with anti inflammatories in them


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

Chet said:


> Maybe it's your wife.
> Seriously though, perhaps the mattress in the bed is being deformed in such a way by the weight of your wife.


Ooooooh...if his wife ever finds you!


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## MarciKS (Apr 6, 2021)

Win was your last mattress $4000??


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

Keesha said:


> Wow! Tempur Pedic mattresses on sale for only $4,713
> Yoga stretches
> Epsom salts baths
> Cold rub or hot rub ointment
> If still sore Robaxecel or back pain meds with anti inflammatories in them


Well, prices have gone up from 20 years ago.  I saw one in "Sit 'n Sleep's" ad for $1900.00.
Back when I got mine, it was $1,500 for everything - mattress, box spring, heavy-duty frame, & delivery.  At that time, there were no stores selling it; it was only available directly from their plant in San Diego, CA.


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> Win was your last mattress $4000??


When I got it, the mattress alone was around $1000.00.  But I needed the whole set - the box spring & the heavy duty frame.  With tax, it came to $2,000.00.
The free trial is now 90 days.


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## MarciKS (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> When I got it, the mattress alone was around $100.00.  But I needed the whole set - the box spring & the heavy duty frame.  With tax, it came to $2,000.00.
> The free trial is now 90 days.


Well I appreciate the info. I bookmarked it. Maybe they'll have a sale or something.


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## Lara (Apr 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> ...most called it "temper foam".[5] Created by feeding gas into a polymer matrix, the foam has an open-cell solid structure that matches pressure against it, yet slowly springs back to its original shape.[6]


Yikes, I sleep on memory foam but "created by feeding gas into a polymer matrix" does NOT sound at all healthy. Of course, I have a quilted cotton mattress cover over it and a sheet but do fumes leak out into the air in the room?


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## win231 (Apr 6, 2021)

Lara said:


> Yikes, I sleep on memory foam but "created by feeding gas into a polymer matrix" does NOT sound at all healthy. Of course, I have a quilted cotton mattress cover over it and a sheet but do fumes leak out into the air in the room?


No.  It did smell weird, but only for a few days.
BTW, if you use anything other than a thin fitted sheet on the mattress, it interferes with the function of your body heat making the mattress conform to you.  Tempur Pedic sells a special water-resistant fitted sheet that allows your heat to make the mattress work


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## Dana (Apr 6, 2021)

Verisure...how I sympathise. I have been troubled with lower back pain for many years... dancing, sport and horse ridng took their toll. I still do those things but I take precautionary measures. I wear an almost invisible belt when I am going to use my back a lot.

I agree with a couple of others, please do not go to a chiropractor. If you  have not done so already, a back specialist, x-rays, ultra sounds should be first on the agenda, to see what damage has been done over the years.

As for sleeping arrangements, we have custom made beds like the video shown below..an absolute joy to sleep on..each made with the user's weight etc in mind. It suits us and we've used zip and link for years


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> It isn't foam, though, it's sort of a hybrid of foam and gel that's molded into a grid shape. And it's purple. But only on the inside. The outside is covered with thick, comfy, white fabric that's quilted on the top.


Wow! Gimme' a spoon!


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> Also how old is the mattress on the bed?


Not very.


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> No DON’T see a chiropractor


Because ......... ?


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## Murrmurr (Apr 7, 2021)

Verisure said:


> Wow! Gimme' a spoon!


It feels as yummy as it sounds.


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

Dana said:


> Verisure...how I sympathise. I have been troubled with lower back pain for many years... dancing, sport and horse ridng took their toll. I still do those things but I take precautionary measures. I wear an almost invisible belt when I am going to use my back a lot.
> 
> I agree with a couple of others, please do not go to a chiropractor. If you  have not done so already, a back specialist, x-rays, ultra sounds should be first on the agenda, to see what damage has been done over the years.
> 
> As for sleeping arrangements, we have custom made beds like the video shown below..an absolute joy to sleep on..each made with the user's weight etc in mind. It suits us and we've used zip and link for years


I have a belt that is not so "invisible" (except beneath my shirt and trousers) but I only use it when it's almost too late. I know I'm stupid but I've always been. 

Well, yesterday I made a list of the 19 chiropractors in town and I was thinking of going around to what appears to be the best ones and see what they have to offer. Maybe I should wait? The thing is, I don't live in the US where you can just drop in and ask for a general check-up, x-rays, and an ultrasound inspection. Our bureaucracy sucks and can be very frustrating. But there might be a back specialist (as you say) and generally, the private ones are easier to contact. I'll have a look today. Then there are exercises maybe?


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## Murrmurr (Apr 7, 2021)

"Then there are exercises maybe?"

Yes, but be careful. Some yoga exercises are helpful...some. I suggest doing an online search for _home exercises for back pain_. Be as specific as you want.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 7, 2021)

Exercises that help my back most are ones that strengthen my abdominal muscles.


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> "Then there are exercises maybe?"
> 
> Yes, but be careful. Some yoga exercises are helpful...some. I suggest doing an online search for _home exercises for back pain_. Be as specific as you want.


I will definitely keep that in mind.


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Exercises that help my back most are ones that strengthen my abdominal muscles.


Yes. I'm not sure if I need to strengthen my muscles or limber them up. It's always that question: Do I hit a nerve because my muscles are too stiff or because weak muscles allowed the nerve to come in contact with something else?


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## Dana (Apr 7, 2021)

Verisure said:


> I have a belt that is not so "invisible" (except beneath my shirt and trousers) but I only use it when it's almost too late. I know I'm stupid but I've always been.
> 
> Well, yesterday I made a list of the 19 chiropractors in town and I was thinking of going around to what appears to be the best ones and see what they have to offer. Maybe I should wait? The thing is, I don't live in the US where you can just drop in and ask for a general check-up, x-rays, and an ultrasound inspection. Our bureaucracy sucks and can be very frustrating. But there might be a back specialist (as you say) and generally, the private ones are easier to contact. I'll have a look today. Then there are exercises maybe?



Exercises are great...but the right ones. Murmur is correct yoga, unless you have been doing that for umpteen years are a no no. I am very careful which yoga exercises I do and would highly recommend the cat stretch. Here's a video with a few exercises, have a look and if done properly they can help tremendously.






At 8.40 on the video is one exercise I do whenever I am sitting at my desk...it's become a habit now. Good luck Verisure.


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

thank


Dana said:


> Exercises are great...but the right ones. Murmur is correct yoga, unless you have been doing that for umpteen years are a no no. I am very careful which yoga exercises I do and would highly recommend the cat stretch. Here's a video with a few exercises, have a look and if done properly they can help tremendously.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip(s)! I just now copied a page from Medical News Today (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323204#lower-back-rotational-stretches) 
and I was just about to try them out but clicked on your post instead. The cat stretch you mention is part of the routine.  The problem is that I have one prosthetic knee and I don't yet know if I can kneel on it.


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## Mike (Apr 7, 2021)

A good reason to avoid Chiropractors is in the link,
a patient died in England while undergoing treatment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-50397867

Mike.


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## Dana (Apr 7, 2021)

Verisure said:


> thank
> 
> Thanks for the tip(s)! I just now copied a page from Medical News Today (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323204#lower-back-rotational-stretches)
> and I was just about to try them out but clicked on your post instead. The cat stretch you mention is part of the routine.  The problem is that I have one prosthetic knee and I don't yet know if I can kneel on it.


_
You can get around the cat stretch Verisure, by doing the Cat/Cow stretch which provides similar benefit and easy on the knee:_


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## hollydolly (Apr 7, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Verisure, MY view of Chiropractors is, they are nothing more than MASSAGERS with a Doctorate. They did absolutely nothing for me after 40 visits after I got rear ended hard. Long story, but it infuriated me.


Unfortunately mine have not relieved any of the pain in mine either...After starting with tens machines , and NHS Physiotherapists/Chiro's ( don't get me started on that) .. I paid privately for better treatment  .The first  one told me that backs were beyond her remit ( this was a a Chiropractor recommended by  my own General Practitioner) ..during this period I was having cortisone injections for herniated discs...she was nice,wore a white coat had a small practice room, but basically she was just a masseuse

It was then recommended that I see a Sports Physiotherapist instead ''because they are always dealing with men and injuries''...I saw her twice. she talked a good talk, but did very little manual manipulation..., and cost a lot of money after every session....

After the 2nd appointment she was suddenly not available when I called for another appointment, so now I just manage my own back pain with exercises from online Chiropractors/Physiotherapists... , and exercises like the Alexander technique .


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## Kathleen’s Place (Apr 7, 2021)

I don’t know if anyone mentioned this, but, have you ever seen the Bret Farv back belt?  They sell it at places like Walgreens in the As Seen On TV section.

Let me give you some background on this. 

I was working one day when a customer asked where he could find the product. As I took him back there, he explained that he had been practically bed ridden with back pain for years. His wife wore this belt and one day he tried hers and over a short amount of time, his back pain disappeared.

I’m always a big one for customer testimonials vs tv or magazine commercials, so I bought one because I suffered from lower back pain too. Put it on and lordie did I notice a difference.  So I was telling some of my friends, who also had back pain, about it. Three of them bought the belt and raved.  So there ya go!

it is very light weight, closes with velcro, can’t be seen under your clothes, comfortable to the point that you totally forget you have it on, and best of all, inexpensive.

so, it wouldn’t hurt to at least try it and see if it helps you at all.  At leastI didn’t have to take 3 xtra strength  excedrin and 2 advil every four hours when I was working


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## hollydolly (Apr 7, 2021)

Is this the _Brett Favre_ Back brace you mean @Kathleen’s Place ?

I've  not heard of it, so Looked it up, and it has poor reviews on Amazon...

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00ZTG2224


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

Mike said:


> A good reason to avoid Chiropractors is in the link,
> a patient died in England while undergoing treatment.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-50397867
> ...


Blimey! Dr. Shipman, I presume.


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

Dana said:


> _You can get around the cat stretch Verisure, by doing the Cat/Cow stretch which provides similar benefit and easy on the knee:_


Thanks. Problem is that I also have a pacemaker and rolling my head, neck, and chest in that way might be difficult. I'll try the cat thing and maybe put a cushion under my left knee.


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Verisure, MY view of Chiropractors is, they are nothing more than MASSAGERS with a Doctorate. They did absolutely nothing for me after 40 visits after I got rear ended hard. Long story, but it infuriated me.


Yes, chiropractors don't have a very good reputation. Same thing with acupuncture. I have two experiences with them:  both were quacks.


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## Don M. (Apr 7, 2021)

Verisure said:


> Thanks. Problem is that I also have a pacemaker and rolling my head, neck, and chest in that way might be difficult. I'll try the cat thing and maybe put a cushion under my left knee.


Perhaps the Best approach for treating any chronic pain is to First find out the cause.....via X-rays, or an MRI scan....and then engaging in a treatment, based upon the results.  To just dive into some exercises or drugs, without determining the cause, could make the issues worse.


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## JonDouglas (Apr 7, 2021)

Having had severe lower back pain for over 40 years due to a diving accident, I've found the only thing that works for me when it comes on is floor exercises - specifically knee-to-chest exercises with a rocking motion followed by lying flat on hard surface.   Family doc said arthritis had set in after having x-ray and scan.  Chiropractor didn't do crap and I didn't want surgery so exercises it was and so far it's worked when needed.


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## hollydolly (Apr 7, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Perhaps the Best approach for treating any chronic pain is to First find out the cause.....via X-rays, or an MRI scan....and then engaging in a treatment, based upon the results.  To just dive into some exercises or drugs, without determining the cause, could make the issues worse.


I've had MRI's on my back...from that diagnoses  I was given Cortisone injections several times, over a period of 5 years but eventually they just don't work ,and the doctor won't do any more..


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## Kathleen’s Place (Apr 7, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Is this the _Brett Favre_ Back brace you mean @Kathleen’s Place ?
> 
> I've  not heard of it, so Looked it up, and it has poor reviews on Amazon...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00ZTG2224


Most of the complaints, that I read, were over poor fit and no returns.
I don’t know about other places, but Walgreens takes back just about anything if you have a receipt. 
I don’t know Holly. Just thought it might be something inexpensive to try.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 7, 2021)

Verisure said:


> Yes. I'm not sure if I need to strengthen my muscles or limber them up. It's always that question: Do I hit a nerve because my muscles are too stiff or because weak muscles allowed the nerve to come in contact with something else?


Your abdominal muscles support your back. Keeping them toned helps keep your spine aligned - improves posture and therefore prevents weakening of the spine, further injury, spinal stenosis, and acquired scoliosis. Keeping the spine aligned also keeps the nerves aligned.

I'll repeat this one because it helps a lot with alignment - find a way to hang upside down at a 45 to 80 degree angle, feet at the high end, head at the low end. Do that for at least 5-10 minutes once or twice a day. While doing this, it should feel a little bit like traction...gently stretching/pulling your spine into alignment. I used an inversion table but if you can't get one or don't have something like it, a padded slant-board is ok, and you can hang by the backs of your knees instead of your feet. You can buy slant-board or build one.


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Perhaps the Best approach for treating any chronic pain is to First find out the cause.....via X-rays, or an MRI scan....and then engaging in a treatment, based upon the results.  To just dive into some exercises or drugs, without determining the cause, could make the issues worse.


I agree with you but our bureaucracy is stiffling. It's difficult to explain but if you've read anything by Franz Kafka you'll have an idea. It could take months before I finally get an x-ray or MRI scan and the way leading up to it can be extremely frustrating. What they will do is the same thing I am doing or worse. Painkillers and exercises (physiotherapy).  Getting our doctors interested in finding the cause of an ailment is like getting a dog to speak.


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Having had severe lower back pain for over 40 years due to a diving accident, I've found the only thing that works for me when it comes on is floor exercises - specifically knee-to-chest exercises with a rocking motion followed by lying flat on hard surface.   Family doc said arthritis had set in after having x-ray and scan.  Chiropractor didn't do crap and I didn't want surgery so exercises it was and so far it's worked when needed.


Yes. I guess if the problem isn't skeletal then proper and specific exercise is the only hope we have.


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Your abdominal muscles support your back. Keeping them toned helps keep your spine aligned - improves posture and therefore prevents weakening of the spine, further injury, spinal stenosis, and acquired scoliosis. Keeping the spine aligned also keeps the nerves aligned.
> 
> I'll repeat this one because it helps a lot with alignment - find a way to hang upside down at a 45 to 80 degree angle, feet at the high end, head at the low end. Do that for at least 5-10 minutes once or twice a day. While doing this, it should feel a little bit like traction...gently stretching/pulling your spine into alignment. I used an inversion table but if you can't get one or don't have something like it, a padded slant-board is ok, and you can hang by the backs of your knees instead of your feet. You can buy slant-board or build one.


I see the importance of your assessment of spine/posture alignment but with my prosthetic knee and pace-maker, I don't think that I can use your method. I'm sure it can be done some other way, though. Also, I am 74 and not as limber as you.


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## Dana (Apr 7, 2021)

Kathleen’s Place said:


> Most of the complaints, that I read, were over poor fit and no returns.
> I don’t know about other places, but Walgreens takes back just about anything if you have a receipt.
> I don’t know Holly. Just thought it might be something inexpensive to try.



_I checked out that belt Kathleen...it seems great judging from this video. Worth considering (if there is a ladies fit) for my horse riding: Thanks for mentioning it._


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## fmdog44 (Apr 7, 2021)

If it i not your back you would not sleep differently on the two surfaces. Most couches are softer than mattresses. Are you sleeping the exact same way on both surfaces. I sleep on my left on my couch but on my right side in bed. Above all never take medical/financial advice from someone online!!!!


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## Verisure (Apr 7, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> If it i not your back you would not sleep differently on the two surfaces. Most couches are softer than mattresses. Are you sleeping the exact same way on both surfaces. I sleep on my left on my couch but on my right side in bed. Above all never take medical/financial advice from someone online!!!!


Good question. The sofa doesn't allow much movement. And then there's the bed. I ALWAYS wake on my back although I sometimes go to sleep on one side.  It seems as though I sleep well on the sofa no matter how I fall asleep whereas sleeping on the bed will leave me in terrible pain when I wake. As far as taking advice online it is a matter of exchanging suggestions and alternatives.  The solution to my back problem is "out there" but I won't know that I've found it until I do. Everyone who's made suggestions on this thread has been helpful.


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## Jules (Apr 7, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Above all never take medical/financial advice from someone online!!!!


That’s good advice.


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## hollydolly (Apr 8, 2021)

Verisure said:


> I agree with you but our bureaucracy is stiffling. It's difficult to explain but if you've read anything by Franz Kafka you'll have an idea. It could take months before I finally get an x-ray or MRI scan and the way leading up to it can be extremely frustrating. What they will do is the same thing I am doing or worse. Painkillers and exercises (physiotherapy).  Getting our doctors interested in finding the cause of an ailment is like getting a dog to speak.


oh you're with the same Doctors surgery as me then ?  we have the same problem with ours...right now it's 8.30am, I have been trying to get our surgery to answer the phone since 7.30am... they don't.The problem being that if you don't call before 9am, you can't get an appointment to see a Doctor that day


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## Verisure (Apr 8, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> oh you're with the same Doctors surgery as me then ?  we have the same problem with ours...right now it's 8.30am, I have been trying to get our surgery to answer the phone since 7.30am... they don't.The problem being that if you don't call before 9am, you can't get an appointment to see a Doctor that day


Oh, don't I know it! Same here. Often it's an hour on certain days of the week they've got telephone time and the queue can be more than that. Fortunately, some have a ring-back service so if you dial in your number they'll ring you back. Fat chance of getting an appointment same day, though, and if you press them they'll tell you to go to the emergency services at the hospital where you can wait several hours only to be told it's not an emergency and send you home.


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## hollydolly (Apr 8, 2021)

Verisure said:


> Oh, don't I know it! Same here. Often it's an hour on certain days of the week they've got telephone time and the queue can be more than that. Fortunately, some have a ring-back service so if you dial in your number they'll ring you back. Fat chance of getting an appointment same day, though, and if you press them they'll tell you to go to the emergency services at the hospital where you can wait several hours only to be told it's not an emergency and send you home.


Precisely the same thing happens here...  except if we do go to Emergency we do get seen, but we can be kept waiting to see anyone anything up to 10 hours.. never anything less than 6 or 7 ...plus it's a long drive to the one and only hospital that serves several large towns

I managed to get through this morning just before 9am  to my surgery, receptionists asked me what the problem was ( a rough guide)  said she'd get the doctor to call me back... it's now 3.15pm... no call...

It's really annoying because it's for precisely that reason that I rarely call the doctor, and so when I do it's fairly urgent


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## Verisure (Apr 8, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Precisely the same thing happens here...  except if we do go to Emergency we do get seen, but we can be kept waiting to see anyone anything up to 10 hours.. never anything less than 6 or 7 ...plus it's a long drive to the one and only hospital that serves several large towns
> 
> I managed to get through this morning just before 9am  to my surgery, receptionists asked me what the problem was ( a rough guide)  said she'd get the doctor to call me back... it's now 3.15pm... no call...
> 
> It's really annoying because it's for precisely that reason that I rarely call the doctor, and so when I do it's fairly urgent


Oh dear. You're an hour after me so it must be quarter past 4 right now. Any luck?


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## hollydolly (Apr 8, 2021)

Verisure said:


> Oh dear. You're an hour after me so it must be quarter past 4 right now. Any luck?


4.21 now, still no call....


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## Verisure (Apr 8, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> 4.21 now, still no call....


What?!


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## Verisure (Apr 8, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> 4.21 now, still no call....


When ringing the automatic service/recording there is a choice to make, _*"For English press 3"*_. A couple of months ago I rang up in the usual manner and was allotted place 37 (or whatever it was). I waited half an hour and rang again, this time pressing 3 for English. I was put straight through!  Two hours later they rang me to ask what I needed! I told them that I'd already sorted it out.


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## hollydolly (Apr 8, 2021)

Almost 5.15pm still no call....


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## Verisure (Apr 8, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Almost 5.15pm still no call....


Since 9 AM? This is too much. You did tell them it was urgent, right? Do you have much pain?


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## hollydolly (Apr 8, 2021)

Finally a call at 6pm... yes I'm in chronic pain, told reception it was urgent, this is typical of my Doctors' surgery tho'... he listened and said '' ah yes it sounds like your gallbladder''...errm no...I had my GB out 10 years ago...so he wants to see me tomorrow..apparently tho',  no longer than a 10 minute appointment available..

I suspect he will just send me for blood tests at the hospital, this is their usual get out of jail free card


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## Verisure (Apr 8, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Finally a call at 6pm... yes I'm in chronic pain, told reception it was urgent, this is typical of my Doctors' surgery tho'... he listened and said '' ah yes it sounds like your gallbladder''...errm no...I had my GB out 10 years ago...so he wants to see me tomorrow..apparently tho',  no longer than a 10 minute appointment available..
> 
> I suspect he will just send me for blood tests at the hospital, this is their usual get out of jail free card


I shouldn't get personally involved but now I am upset. Waiting all of those hours for a 10-minute consultation seems .......


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## MarciKS (Apr 8, 2021)

I think that's ridiculous if you're in severe pain making you wait till the next day for an answer. Hell it could be serious and a person could die waiting for a response.


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## hollydolly (Apr 8, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> I think that's ridiculous if you're in severe pain making you wait till the next day for an answer. Hell it could be serious and a person could die waiting for a response.


Oh yes we all say this all the time... I'm sure it must have happened...


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## hollydolly (Apr 8, 2021)

Verisure said:


> I shouldn't get personally involved but now I am upset. Waiting all of those hours for a 10-minute consultation seems .......


Yes it's not just our surgery sadly, it's Normal in the UK GP surgeries ( Doctors office to you)to  be permitted just 10minutes... and in ours we're not allowed tomention more than one problem. Of course it madness because one problem may be the cause of the first problem or vice versa, but noit's never taken into consideration , we must make a second appointment of 10 mins to address a second problem, and the waiting list at my Doctors is 4 weeks..unless it's an emergency 

..and incidentally if I'm sent for a blood test I won't get the result for 10 days...


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## MarciKS (Apr 8, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Oh yes we all say this all the time... I'm sure it must have happened...


Probably has but you're not gonna see that on a toe tag.


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## hollydolly (Apr 8, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> Probably has but you're not gonna see that on a toe tag.


ain't _that_ a fact


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## Homeschoolie (Apr 8, 2021)

I suffered immensely most of my adult life with my back and neck.... I went to a chiropractor three times a week, a massage therapist once a week, exercised daily, stretched 1-2 times a day every day, did special neck exercises taught me by a Chiropractor, heating pads every day and still lived in almost constant pain ... I don't use heat or chiropractors or massage therapists anymore. And haven't for about 18 years.
But, I do continue to stretch and exercise daily. What I have finally found that solved my problem is a True Back Medical Traction Device and an Exerpeutic Inversion Table.  

I hope this helps someone.


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## Verisure (Apr 8, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Yes it's not just our surgery sadly, it's Normal in the UK GP surgeries ( Doctors office to you)to  be permitted just 10minutes... and in ours we're not allowed tomention more than one problem. Of course it madness because one problem may be the cause of the first problem or vice versa, but noit's never taken into consideration , we must make a second appointment of 10 mins to address a second problem, and the waiting list at my Doctors is 4 weeks..unless it's an emergency
> 
> ..and incidentally if I'm sent for a blood test I won't get the result for 10 days...


Actually, our GP  (_"läkarmottagning"_ to me) is just as bonker'd as yours. Same business with one ailment per visit although we can normally expect to be seen within a week. There was a reportage made a couple of years ago on that very subject and it was discovered that doctors are now instructed to limit visits in that way in order to increase income. It was considered a scandal when the report came out but now it seems to be normal. I guess the only question remaining is if we've adopted your method or if it's the other way round.


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## Verisure (Apr 8, 2021)

Homeschoolie said:


> I suffered immensely most of my adult life with my back and neck.... I went to a chiropractor three times a week, a massage therapist once a week, exercised daily, stretched 1-2 times a day every day, did special neck exercises taught me by a Chiropractor, heating pads every day and still lived in almost constant pain ... I don't use heat or chiropractors or massage therapists anymore. And haven't for about 18 years.
> But, I do continue to stretch and exercise daily. What I have finally found that solved my problem is a True Back Medical Traction Device and an Exerpeutic Inversion Table.
> 
> I hope this helps someone.


You and Murrmurr have a lot in common. Are you in less pain now? Are you able to take a walk without too much discomfort?


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## Homeschoolie (Apr 9, 2021)

Verisure said:


> You and Murrmurr have a lot in common. Are you in less pain now? Are you able to take a walk without too much discomfort?


I am rarely in very mild back pain now. Mostly just for a day or two after weight lifting. 
Walking is one of my favorite forms of exercise. Walk1-2 miles almost every day without back pain...it is my right foot and ankle that gets fussy now  
Researching and trying out shoe inserts for a solution. I have read that sometimes a properly chosen/fitted shoe insert can also help some with ankle, knee, hip and low back pain too. It puts everything in proper alignment.


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## Verisure (Apr 9, 2021)

Homeschoolie said:


> I am rarely in very mild back pain now. Mostly just for a day or two after weight lifting.
> Walking is one of my favorite forms of exercise. Walk1-2 miles almost every day without back pain...it is my right foot and ankle that gets fussy now
> Researching and trying out shoe inserts for a solution. I have read that sometimes a properly chosen/fitted shoe insert can also help some with ankle, knee, hip and low back pain too. It puts everything in proper alignment.


I walk 3 miles myself nearly every day. I do it for my knee prothese but it must be good for my back as well. I don't do any weight lifting, though. My pacemaker was recently repaired and anything like lifting weights feels creepy to me. To tell you the truth I get squeamish just washing my body over that area.   Yes, there is a lot to be said about wearing proper-fitting shoes and/or inserts. My wife is a "runner" and she's always trying this and that. She's competed in serval marathons.


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