# On the heels of the latest school shootings...



## AZ Jim (Feb 23, 2018)

I sit here and reflect on my own school days and am disgusted at the  change in our society!  I didn't go to college so I attended 13 school  years, K-12.  I never saw any day where I smelled fear as a student.  I  only feared getting caught smoking in the restrooms as a high school  student.  I now read school shootings occurring coast to coast, day in  and day out.  I don't get it?  What has has happened since the 50's to  cause this change? The only thing I can think of is maybe video games  where wholesale killing gets more score? Kids used to come home from  school and play baseball down the street with their friends, now they  spend their lives on their smart phones or home computer with video  games.

I am not suggesting that my generation would not have done the same had  the technology existed, but it didn't.  Could this be a contributor to  what's happening today?  I don't know but God bless the parents of 17  beautiful kids who went to their school and will never go there again.


----------



## Ken N Tx (Feb 23, 2018)

I agree... I play slot games and some of the ads that come up for other "games" are graphic and bloody!!


----------



## AZ Jim (Feb 23, 2018)

Ken N Tx said:


> I agree... I play slot games and some of the ads that come up for other "games" are graphic and bloody!!


Ken, I think it desensitization these kids.  They become somewhat immune to the horror of death by violence.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Feb 23, 2018)

My experience growing up was similar, nothing more than a few scuffles that were broken up by the janitors and the phys ed teachers.

The graphic images in video games may be a contributing factor.   

The thing that I don't understand is why these things only seem to cause a very minute portion of the population to act out in such horrendous ways.  

I think that we tend to look for one reason or one solution in these tragedies when we really need to look at hundreds of changes that will impact many areas of our lives.

The whole topic is very sad and frustrating.


----------



## AZ Jim (Feb 23, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> My experience growing up was similar, nothing more than a few scuffles that were broken up by the janitors and the phys ed teachers.
> 
> The graphic images in video games may be a contributing factor.
> 
> ...


It is beyond the reasonable, like you, among us...


----------



## Sunny (Feb 23, 2018)

Why are we blaming the kids?  Remember, it is the wonderful kids of this generation who went en masse to Tallahassee to protest, and to say, "Enough!  We will not allow this to continue!"

And these kids also play video games.


----------



## BobF (Feb 23, 2018)

It is not just the 'kids' of today at all.   Look to the way parents go to their kids school games and then do as much as they can to make sure their kids teams end up winners.   This begins in the younger years for those students and continues on even beyond their college years.

Look to how the pro athlets show little to no willingness to show their faith and loyalty to the country that has allowed them to become so wealthy and debt free so young.   Not enough loyalty to stand for the flag and such at game beginnings.   

It seems that from somewhere their is a lot of  hate and loss of respect for the great things this country has made possible for so many.


----------



## Olivia (Feb 23, 2018)

Just remember that the parents of today were raised by the baby boomers of yesterday.  :doh:

https://offbeat.topix.com/slideshow/18758


----------



## RadishRose (Feb 23, 2018)

That was only partly true, LOL


----------



## treeguy64 (Feb 23, 2018)

Kids, today, are totally desensitized to violence and gore thanks, in part, to the very network we all communicate on, right here!  If I so choose, I can Google "beheadings," and, in less than a minute, watch actual ultra-violent killings of my fellow man/woman.  When I was only about ten, I went to see a movie, "Boxcar Bertha."  It featured graphic sawed-off shotgun shootings of men, with their innards being blown against a wall.  I became sick, at the theater, although I held it in, but when I came home I was shook up for the next day, or two.  Now, kids would watch that movie and say, "Man, this is lame!" and then go back to blasting apart realistic looking men and aliens, on their giant-screen TV's, at home.  Sad, what we're devolving to.


----------



## Smiling Jane (Feb 23, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Why are we blaming the kids?  Remember, it is the wonderful kids of this generation who went en masse to Tallahassee to protest, and to say, "Enough!  We will not allow this to continue!"
> 
> And these kids also play video games.



It's not all one-sided or black and white. High school kids are learning how to be and who they want to be and sometimes those lines get blurred. They can be vicious to an outlier like Cruz on social media and remain silent when they see others piling on and being vile. The next minute they can turn around and be decent people who make good decisions. Some of them are hopelessly mired in the drive to be popular while others are willing to take chances and remove themselves from the running. When high school kids mostly want to fit in and win approval, it takes a brave soul to come forward and refuse to continue to participate like Emma Gonzales is doing.


----------



## Ruthanne (Feb 23, 2018)

I think a part of it is communicating with the kids; parents sitting down and talking to them every day about their lives and their feelings and their ambitions and their beliefs and reinforcing the good things.  A lot of the time no one has time for the kids but let them spend all their time texting, on the tv, on the video games.


----------



## hearlady (Feb 24, 2018)

Was this Cruz on antidepressants? I think that may be a common denominator.


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 24, 2018)

Exposure to excessive amounts of violence, genuine, or virtual,  can also sicken people and cause them to eschew such for the rest of their lives. Ultimately, unless mentally incapacitated, we are all responsible for what we do with our anger. Does much of the world live in a sick society, probably, but that is nothing new. Just because we don’t have all the answers does not relieve us of the responsibility to work towards equitable solutions. One thing, the past is gone, we can never return to what was, only reflect, learn, and move forward.


----------



## 911 (Feb 24, 2018)

First, I agree with Shalimar. However, I would answer to the last line in her post by saying, "We haven't learned to do that yet." 

Preventing school shootings is not fixing just one thing. If it was that simple, surely someone would have figured it out by now. So, we can now say that it's not the parents, it's not the video games, it's not adding security to schools (Sandy Hook proved that), it's not the easy access to guns, it's not because a kid was rejected by a girl and it's not even the mental breakdown or bullying of the child. However, the reports that we (the police) are getting states very simply that it is collectively a number of things that goes wrong in a child's mind that brings about a school shooter.

In each case of a school shooting from Columbine to Parkland, one thing has been constant. Before the shooting began, the shooter told another student, who turned a deaf ear. THIS is what has to stop. It's a well known fact that kids do not share their inner most secrets with adults. It's some kind of pact that they (kids) have. Oh, they don't talk about it or take an oath, but nonetheless, it is an unwritten pact. I remember back when Columbine took place and the day before the shooting happened, I forget which shooter it was, told another student, "Don't come to school tomorrow." Back in my day, we had "tattle-tales" all over the place. I remember being outside for recess while in elementary school on one afternoon with my buddy throwing a ball back and forth and a girl saw me spit on the playground. The next day, the teacher had me stand up in class and she asked me if I did that. I thought about lying, but I told her that I did. She then told me that I had to stay indoors that day during all three recesses. 

If any kid that got wind of a shooting that was being planned would immediately report it, at the very least, some of these shootings could be prevented. Now, this is not to say that maybe at least one of the other reasons for a shooting that has happened that I listed earlier in this post could also be a contributing factor, but psychiatrists have stated over and over that kids become shooters for various reasons. Of course, if guns weren't so readily accessible, it may also prevent some of the shootings, but again, if a person (or kid) wants to carry out a mass carnage by shooting their classmates, they will do it. 

Bottom line here is, there is no 'one" answer that will stop shooters, unless all guns from our society are removed and we can all say with certainty; that isn't going to happen. As it stands now, we are waiting to see where the next shooting will take place. I hope parents have spoken with their children and have "discussed" with them the various ways that they can help themselves stay safe in school and what to do in case a shooting does break out. I wish that all school classrooms had double-hung windows that could be raised and the children could have an escape route out the window, even if they are on the second floor. If it were me, I would rather take a chance jumping out a second floor window than facing down a shooter holding an AR-15. A broken leg can be fixed, whereas; a hole in your heart or head cannot.

The last paper that I read on this subject spoke about parents should be talking with their children everyday and especially about what their day was like at school. Sometimes, there are telltale signs that come out and if the parent is listening close enough, they may be able to pick up on something that the child is having an issue with and that together, the child and the parent can work on to fix.


----------



## Sunny (Feb 24, 2018)

There is nothing new about this country's love of guns and its culture of violence.  The technology available just makes different kinds of games available.  If anything has changed and is responsible for these horrifying mass shootings, it is the proliferation of assault weapons, semiautomatic weapons, etc.  People have been shooting each other with pistols since this country began, but at least with a pistol you can't do as much damage.

When my son was little, he had a bb gun. Most little boys had one. No one thought there was anything wrong with them; a very tiny percentage of those kids turned into killers. And the bb guns probably had nothing to do with it. But I'm glad to see them gone anyway.


----------



## WhatInThe (Feb 24, 2018)

Instant gratification and social media. Technology has made instant gratification quicker & easier to come by even if it's winning a video or getting a 'like' for a comment. Social media has thrown several new variables into the mix including opinions that decades ago that would be meaningless or never be discussed except among best friends or family. So many of today's youth get to see what people think of them or visa versa. If they don't see or get what they want their frustration and/or anger can start building or growing almost instantly which could leave too much emotion for them to handle in a short time frame.

The older generations have context and experience without tech. The youth do not. But the same 'rules' should apply. People should accept or consider a different opinion even online. But too many adults early wrote off tech 'eh it's the internet'. But not having to directly face others when they start name calling or opining emboldens nasty behavior which in turn triggers a response which leads to escalation.

Several old adages still apply which I think many of todays youth never heard of or wrote off and that's 'sticks n stones' and 'be nice', just like in the movie Road House bouncer training scene.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 24, 2018)

I agree with all of the above posts, especially the comments about ultra-violent games and movies. It seems to me that, at an absolute minimum, parents can, and should, refuse to allow their kids to play those games. Doing so may not stop a single shooter but it just might. 

In my opinion, 911 is spot on correct when he suggests that it is not one single cause but rather a multitude of causes. No matter how unpopular it may be, we must be willing to look at all possible causes. One thing is indisputable, life has become vastly more complicated then when we were growing up.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 24, 2018)

BobF said:


> It is not just the 'kids' of today at all.   Look to the way parents go to their kids school games and then do as much as they can to make sure their kids teams end up winners.   This begins in the younger years for those students and continues on even beyond their college years.
> 
> Look to how the pro athlets show little to no willingness to show their faith and loyalty to the country that has allowed them to become so wealthy and debt free so young.   Not enough loyalty to stand for the flag and such at game beginnings.
> 
> *It **seems that from * *somewhere their is a lot* *of  hate and loss of respect* for the great things this country has made possible for so many.




I believe that BobF has hit upon the sine qua non of school shootings. Without the hatred, a kid does not become a mass killer.
I have been studying the two Colombine killers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.  Reading the FBI psychological studies of those two, it is clear that Eric Harris was not only the mastermind behind the massacre, he was filled with a hatred of nearly everything and everybody. 

Excerpts from Eric Harris's diary give us a glimpse into the mind of a psychopath. He had as much compassion for people as a butcher does for the beef he carves up. The FBI concluded that, had Harris not been the killer at Colombine High School, he very likely would have gone on to commit an even greater mass killing, later in life.  Absolutely chilling.

Where in the name of God, did Harris learn such hatred ?


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 24, 2018)

Psychopaths are wired differently than the rest of us. This is apparent in brain scans which clearly show sharp differences  in those areas of the brain responsible for a variety of emotions, particularly empathy. Current science indicates they are born this way, as opposed  to sociopaths who usually have horrendous childhoods. If 

a person is amoral, unable to relate to the people around them,  feels contempt for others, and enraged when everything doesn’t go their way, is dealing with teenage hormones, it can be a recipe for disaster. These individuals view themselves as gods, others as peons. They lack the inhibitors/conscience which define most people.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 24, 2018)

Ok, I accept that, Shalimar.  Let me ask you, if such a young man was sent to you, either by the school or the parents, for, let's say being a bully, or perhaps torturing small animals, and, like Harris, he was extremely intelligent, what, if anything, could you do ? Is there any way to either help him or confine him or both ?  Assuming, of course, that he was smart enough to never tell you that he had fantasies of killing people.

This presumes that you are absolutely convinced that you are dealing with a psychopath ?


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 24, 2018)

Traveler said:


> Ok, I accept that, Shalimar.  Let me ask you, if such a young man was sent to you, either by the school or the parents, for, let's say being a bully, or perhaps torturing small animals, and, like Harris, he was extremely intelligent, what, if anything, could you do ? Is there any way to either help him or confine him or both ?  Assuming, of course, that he was smart enough to never tell you that he had fantasies of killing people.
> 
> This presumes that you are absolutely convinced that you are dealing with a psychopath ?



Unless he has committed crimes punishable by incarceration of some sort, or is clearly mentally ill to the extent of requiring hospitalisation, there is little restraint available. As for helping him, unlikely, psychopaths think they are normal, the rest of us skewed. Machiavellian manipulators, they are adept at telling therapists what they wish to hear, but they have no desire to change. Nothing is ever their fault.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 24, 2018)

So even if they're diagnosed psychotic, all we can do is wait until they melt down?


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 24, 2018)

Psychotic and psychopath are not synonymous. If the person is diagnosed as psychotic, meds are available. But, unless the person is a proven danger to themselves or others, a therapist’s hands are tied. Only a small fraction of psychopaths are killers. The majority are successful people with no obvious glitches unless you are close to them.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 24, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Psychotic and psychopath are not synonymous. If the person is diagnosed as psychotic, meds are available. But, unless the person is a proven danger to themselves or others, a therapist’s hands are tied. Only a small fraction of psychopaths are killers. The majority are successful people with no obvious glitches unless you are close to them.



I knew as soon as I posted that I used an improper term. I guess that happens with us OTBs. 

So I guess my idea of psychological testing for gun permits is shot down.


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 24, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> I knew as soon as I posted that I used an improper term. I guess that happens with us OTBs.
> 
> So I guess my idea of psychological testing for gun permits is shot down.


Not at all. I think it is a great idea. It won’t stop everyone, but it will help prevent some unstable peeps.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 24, 2018)

Shalimar said:


> Not at all. I think it is a great idea. It won’t stop everyone, but it will help prevent some unstable peeps.



Okay, thanks.


----------



## KingsX (Feb 24, 2018)

.

Feb 23, 2018

*Some Stockton students become violent during anti-gun protest*

" STOCKTON, Calif. (KCRA) 

At least five students were arrested Friday as hundreds of others from several Stockton high schools walked out of classes in protest of gun violence after last week's deadly shooting at a Florida high school.

Students at Stagg, Edison, Chavez, Lincoln and Village Oak high schools were walking along streets, creating traffic problems in the area as streets were blocked off.

Stockton police said some students threw rocks and damaged both police and citizen vehicles.

Five arrests were made, including charges of battery on an officer, resisting arrest, taking an officer's baton and vandalizing vehicles, including patrol vehicles, Stockton police said.

Those arrested ranged from 14-years-old to 18-years-old. The 18-year-old was booked into the San Joaquin County Jail and the juveniles were cited to their parents, according to Stockton Police. "

more at link

http://www.kcra.com/article/some-stockton-students-become-violent-during-anti-gun-protest-1/18698723

.


----------



## Warrigal (Feb 24, 2018)

Here is the rest:



> During one incident, an officer approached a group of students attempting to leave a school by jumping a fence. When the officer approached the students, police said they fought with the officer and took his baton.
> 
> 
> The officer was patrolling an area of the high school while it was placed on lockdown. A person who saw the incident take place came to the officer’s aid until more officers arrived, police said.
> ...



What is your point KingsX? 

There were several "well organized protests carried out by students on its high school campuses this week" and at one campus a group of students, at least 5, left the organised protest and behaved in a very anti social way. They have been arrested and will be charged and dealt with by the courts.

As a teacher this does not surprise me, given the nature of teens. They do sometimes get a kick out of this kind of behaviour but the vast majority do not and did not. At least, they did not shoot anyone and the police did not shoot them.


----------



## KingsX (Feb 24, 2018)

Warrigal said:


> What is your point KingsX?




The irony...  anti-gun students being violent.  

Cultural marxists would have no problem using naive high school students as useful idiot cannon fodder.


----------



## Seeker (Feb 24, 2018)

All I know is... back in my day..All they had to worry about was who was selling drugs. There were no worries about guns. With each generation the threat gets more and more serious. We never had the internet to (one up the other). Seems now they just want to be bigger and better than their predecessor.


----------



## Warrigal (Feb 24, 2018)

KingsX said:


> The irony... * anti-gun students *being violent.
> Cultural marxists would have no problem using naive high school students as useful idiot* cannon fodde*r.



Who said they were anti gun? They left the organised protest to make mischief. They could be pro gun, or anti gun or simply antisocial.

Cannon fodder? Are you suggesting that the protest organisers were placing their students in harm's way from enemies who would wish them dead and might actually shoot at them?

Your logic escapes me.


----------



## KingsX (Feb 24, 2018)

Warrigal said:


> Your logic escapes me.




My logic is based on my knowledge of Communist tactics to further it's evil social agenda, cultural marxism.


----------



## Warrigal (Feb 24, 2018)

You read that somewhere, didn't you?
Have you ever met a card carrying communist?


----------



## Camper6 (Feb 24, 2018)

I'm going to say the easy availability of guns is the reason for the school shootings.

That is the gig difference from the good old days.

When I was growing up it was rare for anyone to own a gun much less a revolver.

They were expensive. Now they are used to settle arguments.

I would like to see stats per capita on my claim. I don't think they are available.


----------



## KingsX (Feb 24, 2018)

Warrigal said:


> You read that somewhere, didn't you?
> Have you ever met a card carrying communist?




I've never asked to see their "cards"...  but I have interacted with them on Russian forums.

But my education about Communists and their evil cultural marxist agenda goes back much further.
Back when I was a high school student,  I read many books on the subject, like "Masters of Deceit"
[they certainly are "masters of deceit"] and I was a member of the anti-Communist John Birch Society.


----------



## C'est Moi (Feb 24, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> I'm going to say the easy availability of guns is the reason for the school shootings.
> 
> That is the gig difference from the good old days.
> 
> ...



What a crock.   You are in Canada.   I am in Texas.   All my life I have been around guns, and people who own them.   Including myself.   No one I know has ever "shot up" anything except target practice and during hunting season.   Guns are not used "to settle arguments" except by emotionally disturbed individuals.   

Nearly half the households in the US have guns.   We raised five children in this house, with guns.   They are all responsible adults now with their own homes, and they own guns.   Amazingly, we have never used any gun to settle an argument.   We are rational and responsible gun owners and plan on continuing to be.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 25, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> What a crock.   You are in Canada.   I am in Texas.   All my life I have been around guns, and people who own them.   Including myself.   No one I know has ever "shot up" anything except target practice and during hunting season.   Guns are not used "to settle arguments" except by emotionally disturbed individuals.
> 
> Nearly half the households in the US have guns.   We raised five children in this house, with guns.   They are all responsible adults now with their own homes, and they own guns.   Amazingly, we have never used any gun to settle an argument.   We are rational and responsible gun owners and plan on continuing to be.




I agree. The availability of guns has nothing to do with why some people become violent.  People become violent because they are  emotionally unstable.  If we pay close attention to the nightly broadcasts on TV, and we hear about a husband or boyfriend who has killed his wife/lover, we will also often hear that there was a recent breakup. He thinks he can not live without her. The man has been overcome with a sense of grief, and he becomes emotionally unhinged. 

People kill with knives, axes, poison, heavy objects, cars, by choking and of course guns.  Blaming the knife for the cause of the murder is ridiculous. 

There was a recent case in Southern California where a woman had discovered her man was cheating on her. She waited for him in the employees parking lot. When she spotted him, she ran him over with her car. And, having done so, she backup and ran him over again. Twice more. Are we expected to believe it was the cars fault ? 

I don't know the precise psychiatric term for such people, but they are unhinged. I wish more people could get this simple concept though their heads.


----------



## Sunny (Feb 25, 2018)

> If any kid that got wind of a shooting that was being planned would  immediately report it, at the very least, some of these shootings could  be prevented.



If only it was that simple, 911.  I think if all these threats were being reported, the perpetrators would just stop issuing warning threats and get more secretive.

(I wonder: Why the threats, anyway? )


----------



## WhatInThe (Feb 25, 2018)

Sunny said:


> If only it was that simple, 911.  I think if all these threats were being reported, the perpetrators would just stop issuing warning threats and get more secretive.
> 
> (I wonder: Why the threats, anyway? )



Large scale attacks require resources and planning. Both time and money spent increase the chances of detection. Associated behavior even though troublesum or erratic also increase chances of detection. These types are already interested in making a statement. This cowardly murderer in Florida was wanted to make a statement no matter how warped. I saw pictures of him shooting a handgun in his backyard in his underwear and that didn't raise alarms? 

Part of the issue with these planned attacks is that authorities or investigators need to go all in with undercovers and their own resources. I think some as with 911 and Parkland were afraid to rock a political boat at the local or national level and did not go all in.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 25, 2018)

Sunny said:


> If only it was that simple, 911. I think if all these threats were being reported, the perpetrators would just stop issuing warning threats and get more secretive.
> 
> (I wonder: Why the threats, anyway? )



People make threats, I think, for a variety of reasons, among them:



It makes them feel powerful 
It serves as a release, a safety valve 
They feel it will impress other people 
They feel it puts them in control 
Finally, it is one of the steps taken before an actual physical action 

This last is part of an involved study I did years ago (which turned into an article and thence a paper) about the various steps leading up to a physical conflict:



Presence 
Voice 
Touch 
Restraint 
Less-than-lethal force 
Lethal Force 

These were written from a self-defense standpoint, but by reverse-engineering them you can arrive at the steps an aggressor will usually go through in a scenario.

In the present situation under discussion, I would think that making threats on social media falls somewhere around #2, Voice. This person may be perfoming a "monkey dance" or ritualistic display of power and aggression through social media. That is his/her "voice" (since the first element, "Presence", cannot be articulated online).

A very abbreviated version of how I used this indexing of behavior in my work can be found here on my website.


----------



## Happyflowerlady (Feb 25, 2018)

When I was growing up, in north Idaho, everyone had a gun (usually hunting rifles) in their home, and we were all taught as children to NEVER touch our parent’s guns. 
We were told to assume that any gun we saw was loaded.   Most people didn’t carry around a handgun for protection, because we really didn’t need it; but I imagine that in the larger cities in the US, there would have been more criminals, and people might have needed a weapon to protect themself. 
In high school, where some of the students drove a vehicle to school, every pickup had a gun rack in the back window, and most of them had 1-2 rifles year around, but especially during fall hunting season. 
The high school principal didn’t object, and if he said anything , it was to admire the hunting rifle.  
The worst thing that ever happened was probably some of the older boys smoking on the school grounds. No one did drugs, or was prescribed drugs. 
It has been since the doctors started prescribing all of the mind-altering drugs to our school kids (and adults) that this epidemic of irrational killing has started, and most , if not all of the shooters have been on some kind of psychotic drug, and often had been prescribed ADHD drugs when they were school-age children. 
It is not the weapon that is the problem here, it is the mind of the shooters.


----------



## KingsX (Feb 25, 2018)

Happyflowerlady said:


> When I was growing up, in north Idaho, everyone had a gun (usually hunting rifles) in their home, and we were all thought as children to NEVER touch our parent’s guns.
> We were told to assume that any gun we saw was loaded.   Most people didn’t carry around a handgun for protection, because we really didn’t need it; but I imagine that in the larger cities in the US, there would have been more criminals, and people might have needed a weapon to protect themself.
> In high school, where some of the students drove a vehicle to school, every pickup had a gun rack in the back window, and most of them had 1-2 rifles year around, but especially during fall hunting season.
> The high school principal didn’t object, and if he said anything , it was to admire the hunting rifle.
> ...




Reminds me of Rev 18:23 which refers to the end of the age evil empire, Babylon,  "for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy *sorceries* were all nations deceived."

The Greek word KJV translated as "sorceries" could be translated *drugs*.  From that same Greek word [Strong's G5331 - pharmakeia] comes our words,  pharmaceuticals & pharmacy.  In the Bible, administering poisonous drugs is witchcraft, a capital crime.


----------



## AZ Jim (Feb 25, 2018)

Obviously a good thread for me to avoid from here on out!!


----------



## Sunny (Feb 25, 2018)

> It is not the weapon that is the problem here, it is the mind of the shooters.



Happyflowerlady, it's also the weapon.  Let's say some resident nut case is looking for a way to inflict maximum damage on innocent people. He has two weapons available to him, a knife and an atomic bomb.  Which would you rather see in his hands?  (I'm deliberately leaving guns out of it; maybe if we all step back and forget about the guns, we can see this for what it is.)

Yes, he's still nuts, which could be the fault of his parents, or the culture he grew up in, or his video games, or violent TV shows, or maybe a chemical imbalance in his brain. So what?  The weapon of choice is still of primary
importance.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 25, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Reminds me of Rev 18:23 which refers to the end of the age evil empire, Babylon, "for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy *sorceries* were all nations deceived."
> 
> The Greek word KJV translated as "sorceries" could be translated *drugs*. From that same Greek word [Strong's G5331 - pharmakeia] comes our words, pharmaceuticals & pharmacy. In the Bible, administering poisonous drugs is witchcraft, a capital crime.



The Greek word "_pharmakeia_" translates out to "medicine", NOT "drugs. 

Now if you had said "_pharmakon_", which is the older root word of "_pharmakeia_", THAT translates variously to "remedy", "drug", "poison" or "spell", depending upon how it is translated and used.


----------



## James (Feb 25, 2018)

I don't think anyone will disagree that It's a sad day when this becomes a normal everyday sight at our schools.


----------



## Camper6 (Feb 25, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> What a crock.   You are in Canada.   I am in Texas.   All my life I have been around guns, and people who own them.   Including myself.   No one I know has ever "shot up" anything except target practice and during hunting season.   Guns are not used "to settle arguments" except by emotionally disturbed individuals.
> 
> Nearly half the households in the US have guns.   We raised five children in this house, with guns.   They are all responsible adults now with their own homes, and they own guns.   Amazingly, we have never used any gun to settle an argument.   We are rational and responsible gun owners and plan on continuing to be.



Your personal experience is not the norm.  Did any of those five children have a semi automatic weapon like the AR-15.

Yep. All my life I have been around guns as well.  In fact I have coffee with friends who all own guns.  But on my street when I was growing up.?  It was rare to have a gun unless you were an avid hunter and ate your kill.

You are missing the point here.  It's the mass murders with semi automatics that is in the news and as far as I am concerned, the problem.

Vegas 58, Texas 16, Florida 17.

When a kid or anyone else shoots up a school or anything else it's to settle an argument with that school or group of people.

The guy who shot up the church in Texas was settling an argument with his ex family members.

And with that I am out of here on this topic because I know where it is heading politically.

You can have the last word.


----------



## KingsX (Feb 25, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Reminds me of Rev 18:23 which refers to the end of the age evil empire, Babylon,  "for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy *sorceries* were all nations deceived."
> 
> The Greek word KJV translated as "sorceries" could be translated *drugs*.  From that same Greek word [Strong's G5331 - pharmakeia] comes our words,  pharmaceuticals & pharmacy.  In the Bible, administering poisonous drugs is witchcraft, a capital crime.






SifuPhil said:


> The Greek word "_pharmakeia_" translates out to "medicine", NOT "drugs.
> 
> Now if you had said "_pharmakon_", which is the older root word of "_pharmakeia_", THAT translates variously to "remedy", "drug", "poison" or "spell", depending upon how it is translated and used.




Strong's G5331

Transliteration
pharmakeia

Strong’s Definitions

†φαρμακεία pharmakeía, far-mak-i'-ah; from G5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):—sorcery, witchcraft. 

Outline of Biblical Usage 

*1.      the use or the administering of drugs
   2.      poisoning*
   3.      sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
   4.      metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry


more at link

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g5331


* Rev 18:23 speaks about the "great merchants of the earth" right before it says all the nations are deceived by pharmakeia.
Drugs... legal and illegal... are a huge global business that makes plenty of  "merchants" very wealthy and powerful.*


----------



## C'est Moi (Feb 25, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> I'm going to say the easy availability of guns is the reason for the school shootings.
> 
> That is the gig difference from the good old days.
> 
> ...





Camper6 said:


> Your personal experience is not the norm.  Did any of those five children have a semi automatic weapon like the AR-15.
> 
> *Yep. All my life I have been around guns as well. * In fact I have coffee with friends who all own guns.  But on my street when I was growing up.?  It was rare to have a gun unless you were an avid hunter and ate your kill.
> 
> ...





Thank you; I'll be happy to have the last word.   In your previous post, you made NO REFERENCE to automatic weapons at all; you just said that "guns were not the norm."    Then in your response to me, you totally reversed yourself and admitted that "all your life you have been around guns."    

So whether they were the norm or not, guns were not the problem then and they are not the problem now.


----------



## Cap'nSacto (Feb 25, 2018)

This letter is long, but I love this retired teacher's answer to the tragic circumstances of school _shooters_:

IN LIGHT OF THE RECENT TRAGEDY IN FLORIDA, WALKING OUT OF SCHOOL IN  PROTEST OF POOR SCHOOL SECURITY WILL NOT LEAD TO A SOLUTION, BUT IF YOU  ARE SINCERE IN WANTING TO BE PART OF THE REAL SOLUTION, CONTINUE READING… 



 Dear Students,
 I know you. I am a retired teacher of 24 years. I have taught you as  7th graders all the way through 12th grade. This is not a tweet or a  text. It’s called a letter; lengthy and substantial. Do you really want  to make a difference? Are you sincere about making your schools safe?  Don’t walk out, read this instead. Walking out of school is easy  compared to what this letter will challenge you to do. 
 First of  all, put down your stupid phone. Look around you at your classmates. Do  you see the kid over in the corner, alone? He could likely be our next  shooter. He needs a friend. He needs you. Go and talk to him, befriend  him. Chances are, he won’t be easy to like, but it’s mainly because no  one has tried to like him. Ask him about him. Get to know him. He’s just  like you in that respect; he wants someone to recognize him as a fellow  human being but few people have ever given him the chance. You can.

 Next, see that kid eating lunch all alone? He could likely be our next  shooter. Invite him to eat lunch with you. Introduce him into your fold  of friends. You’ll most likely catch a lot of flack from the friends you  eat with because they don’t want him upsetting the balance of their  social order. After all, who you hang out with is critical to your  status, is it not? If status is important to you, don’t you think it’s  important to him also? The only difference being that he has no status  because generally, shooters have no friends. Are you serious about  wanting to make your school safe? Invite him to your lunch table and  challenge your friends to do something meaningful with thirty minutes of  their lives each day. 

 Lastly, are you completely frustrated by  that kid who always disrupts your class and is consistently sent to the  principal’s office? He could likely be our next shooter. Do you know why  he causes so much trouble? He initiates disruption because that’s the  only thing he does that gets him attention, and even bad attention is  better than the no attention he receives from you and your classmates.  You secretly wish he would get kicked out of school or sent to the  alternative disciplinary school so that he wouldn’t disrupt your classes  anymore, that somehow, he would just disappear. Guess what? He already  feels invisible in a school of thousands of classmates, you included.  So, before he acts out in your next class, why don’t you tell him you’d  be willing to help him with the assignment that was just given? Or why  don’t you ask him to join your study group? If you really want to blow  his mind, ask him for help on the assignment. He’s never been asked  that. Ever.       

 If you’ve read this far, you probably really do  care about the safety of your school. Don’t trust that walking out of  school will bring an answer. Gun control or more laws is not, and will  not, be the answer. You are the answer. Your greeting, your smile, your  gentle human touch is the only thing that can change the world of a  desperate classmate who may be contemplating something as horrendous as a  school shooting. Look past yourself and look past your phone and look  into the eyes of a student who no one else sees. Meet the gaze of a  fellow human being desperate to make contact with anyone, even just one  person. You. If you really feel the need to walk, walk toward that  person. Your new friendship can relieve the heartache of one person and  in doing so, possibly prevent the unjustifiable heartache of hundreds of  lives in the future. I know you. I trust you. You are the answer.  

 And teachers, my fellow guardians of our youth, I know you too. I know  the desire of wanting to make a difference in a young person’s life. I  know the thrill of stepping in front of a classroom of students but  simultaneously intimidated by the trust bestowed upon you. I also know  the crushing, sometimes unbearable responsibility that your shoulders  are asked to carry. But that’s why you got into teaching, because you  have big shoulders. And a big heart. You’re overworked (I would add  underpaid, but you didn’t get into teaching for the pay, so it needn’t  be said), underappreciated and exhausted. May I add one more item to  that list? You’re also a miracle waiting to happen in the life of your  worst student. He could likely be our next shooter. The next time (and  there’s always a next time) he’s ready to wreak havoc in your classroom,  I challenge you to pull him aside and ask him if he’s ok, if there is  something bothering him and is there anything you can do to help? Your  genuine concern for him may be just the miracle he’s looking for. The  miracle we’re all looking for. I know you. I trust you. You are the  answer.  


 A former teacher who is as heartbroken as you and  trusting you not to walk out on the real answer,                                                                                         
 David (yes, teachers really do have first names) Blair 
 Science Teacher, retired
 HEB and Joshua ISD


----------



## KingsX (Feb 25, 2018)

.

*Texas school district threatens to suspend students who protest gun violence during school hours*


" A Texas school district is threatening to suspend students who protest gun violence during school hours as “walkouts” among young activists take place nationwide.

Curtis Rhodes, Superintendent of Needville Independent School District, stated in a letter posted to Facebook and reportedly sent home to students on Tuesday that while the school district "is very sensitive to violence in schools including the recent incident in Florida," the district "will not allow a student demonstration during school hours for any type of protest or awareness!!"....

...  " If students do choose to protest, the school district said they'll suspend them for three days, and they'll "face all the consequences that come along with an out of school suspension."

more at link

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/2...protest-gun-violence-during-school-hours.html


----------



## Ken N Tx (Feb 25, 2018)

I am a believer that there is a time and place for everything..


----------



## KingsX (Feb 25, 2018)

.

True story 

When I was in high school [Texas],  there was an upcoming football game against our main nemesis, the only other high school in town.  On Friday, before the big game,  towards the end of the school day, many students began chanting football slogans in class. Then some students left class to chant in the hallway. The impromptu football rally grew bigger and bigger when other students [thinking it was a surprise school approved event] left their classrooms to join the other students who were now marching up and down the halls chanting football slogans. Next thing we knew at the end of the main hall stood our high school Principal with his hands on his hips and a scowl on his face demanding the "riot" stops now and everyone return to class. Everyone scrambled quickly back to their classrooms.

"One Riot = One Ranger"... or in our case,  one Principal  


How's this for irony... the other high school in town had a cannon by the main entrance [as in Texas' famous "come and take it" cannon in the Texas Revolution.]

My high school had a Confederate rebel theme. 

Before the big game, our guys would sneak over to the other high school and paint their cannon,  red, white and blue.

.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 25, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Strong's G5331
> 
> Transliteration
> pharmakeia
> ...



Fair enough, and I agree with your closing statement, but you only cite Strong's Concordance, which is the go-to reference for _Biblical_ terminology.

It is NOT the final word on etymology among linguists.


----------



## Camper6 (Feb 25, 2018)

911.  There's nothing you can do about one kid telling another kid he is going to do something bad.


----------



## Warrigal (Feb 25, 2018)

Cap'nSacto said:


> This letter is long, but I love this retired teacher's answer to the tragic circumstances of school _shooters_:
> 
> IN LIGHT OF THE RECENT TRAGEDY IN FLORIDA, WALKING OUT OF SCHOOL IN  PROTEST OF POOR SCHOOL SECURITY WILL NOT LEAD TO A SOLUTION, BUT IF YOU  ARE SINCERE IN WANTING TO BE PART OF THE REAL SOLUTION, CONTINUE READING…
> 
> ...



This teacher points to something that can be done to make schools safer for students. Good pastoral care structures need to be in place in order identify isolated students, among other problems in the student population. I don't know what structures are common in US schools but where I have taught it was either based on the home rooms and year groups, or a house system. Sometimes both.

The house system takes all new students and assigns them membership of one of the houses - think Harry Potter being assigned to Gryffindor by the sorting hat. Teachers are also assigned to houses as part of a pastoral care team. In this way every student belongs to a tribe with tribal elders from both the senior students and the faculty members. In school competitions in sport, debating etc  students can to contribute points to their house which enhances the sense of belonging. 

Even if nothing else is done, this system has merit. If combined with an intentional pastoral care program that is guided by school counsellors the house system can be of benefit to students doing it tough in the playground. For example, new students, as part of their orientation, can be assigned senior students to be their buddies and mentors  helping them fit in in their first year of high school. The student leaders and the staff leaders can also work as a team by discussing problems as they arise, whether it be bullying or something happening at home such as family breakup that the teachers are not yet aware of. Early intervention can prevent a small problem from becoming something much worse further down the track.

By intentionally working to make schools kinder communities for all students it might just be possible to stop some individuals from developing that inner rage that is finally expressed in murderous revenge.


----------



## hearlady (Feb 25, 2018)

Do schools still have guidance counselors? I know it would be rare these days to have a school nurse. Those positions could be expanded to recognize and refer students in or causing trouble. Maybe a small piece of the prevention solution.


----------



## AZ Jim (Feb 25, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> Okay, thanks.


And so it begins.  My man Phil makes a move his intended (my friend the mermaid)) sets him straight and he now understands his future!  It's OK Phil, she's worth it!! (If either of you take this comment as sincere, "fugit" about it!)


----------



## Cap'nSacto (Feb 25, 2018)

Warrigal said:


> This teacher points to something that can be done to make schools safer for students. Good pastoral care structures need to be in place in order identify isolated students, among other problems in the student population. I don't know what structures are common in US schools but where I have taught it was either based on the home rooms and year groups, or a house system. Sometimes both.
> 
> The house system takes all new students and assigns them membership of one of the houses - think Harry Potter being assigned to Gryffindor by the sorting hat. Teachers are also assigned to houses as part of a pastoral care team. In this way every student belongs to a tribe with tribal elders from both the senior students and the faculty members. In school competitions in sport, debating etc  students can to contribute points to their house which enhances the sense of belonging.
> 
> ...



Home rooms at the high school level is now gone in most high schools (actually, I don't know if _any_ still have them), and student counselors were replaced with "Career Counselors", whose main purpose was to guide students toward preparing for college, and now few high schools have counselors at all. (I know 3 teachers, 2 of whom still teach. One says money saved on counselors is now going toward buying technology, the other two say it's supporting retired teachers.)

Also, to the point highlighted in blue - this was one of the best systems ever. Students who excelled could also help students who were struggling. Both these systems no longer exist at the high school level as it is viewed (by the Dept of ED) as demeaning to struggling and new students.


----------



## Shalimar (Feb 25, 2018)

AZ Jim said:


> And so it begins.  My man Phil makes a move his intended (my friend the mermaid)) sets him straight and he now understands his future!  It's OK Phil, she's worth it!! (If either of you take this comment as sincere, "fugit" about it!)


Lulz.


----------



## Butterfly (Feb 25, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> What a crock.   You are in Canada.   I am in Texas.   All my life I have been around guns, and people who own them.   Including myself.   No one I know has ever "shot up" anything except target practice and during hunting season.   Guns are not used "to settle arguments" except by emotionally disturbed individuals.
> 
> Nearly half the households in the US have guns.   We raised five children in this house, with guns.   They are all responsible adults now with their own homes, and they own guns.   Amazingly, we have never used any gun to settle an argument.   We are rational and responsible gun owners and plan on continuing to be.



Same here.  I've been around guns all my life.  I was taught at an early age to respect them and to handle them safely and responsibly, and I will continue to do so.


----------



## Smiling Jane (Feb 25, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> Same here.  I've been around guns all my life.  I was taught at an early age to respect them and to handle them safely and responsibly, and I will continue to do so.



Me too. In the home where I grew up. there were two closets in our entryway, one on either side of the front door. The closet on the right side was where we kept our guns and other weapons (knives, etc.). That closet was always locked, and only my father, my mother (who never shot a gun in her life), my brother and I knew where to find the key. On the inside of the door my father posted the rules for gun use. The first rule was no loaded guns inside city limits. Dad checked our guns regularly to make sure they were unloaded and we were cleaning them properly. 

I own a handgun and I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon. In all these years of being around guns, it has never entered my mind to shoot someone because I was angry.


----------



## Olivia (Feb 25, 2018)

My neighbor who lived alone for two years after his wife passed, was doing very well at the age of 89. He went out every day to just go out, had dinners and lunches with neighbor friends, in other words doing well. Then one day he got it into his head that his neighbor and friend of 40 years stole a clock on the wall of his garage. He took his gun over to his neighbor, showed him his gun and told him that he knows that the clock was in the neighbor's bedroom. When he went out daily, anybody could walk right into to his garage and take anything they wanted. I had the key to his house and if he thought something was missing, he could have accused me and come over with his gun. Anyway, he was arrested and jailed and apparently had a great old time making friends with the jailhouse guards. He's on five-years probation and his son moved him to Florida where he lives. 

One morning making breakfast and watching the TV news, a report came on that a husband and wife were found dead in their home. What happened was that the daughter was a long-time friend of mine and it turned out that she couldn't get hold of her parents for a few days, and finally went to the house and had to climb through a window to get inside where she found her mom and dad dead on the kitchen floor. The mother had shot the father and then shot herself.

Another morning when I was again watching the TV news, there was a report that a man had gone to the airport where his girlfriend worked in one of the offices. The girlfriend had broken up with him. He shot the girlfriend dead and then himself. I was attending a couple of business courses with this guy. 

So, what is the moral of these stories? 

Don't watch the morning news and don't live next to a neighbor with a gun.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 26, 2018)

My Ex used to carry a gun tucked into the back of the waistband of her jeans. She never left the house without it. Well, one day we decided to go to the gun range. I set up the targets for her and she tried it out for the first time. Click. Click. And again, click. I unloaded the pistol and took it to the range master. Upon examination he told her that there was no firing pin. 

As it turned out her previous husband had removed the firing pin. Furious does not begin to describe how angry she was.


----------



## rgp (Feb 26, 2018)

Traveler said:


> My Ex used to carry a gun tucked into the back of the waistband of her jeans. She never left the house without it. Well, one day we decided to go to the gun range. I set up the targets for her and she tried it out for the first time. Click. Click. And again, click. I unloaded the pistol and took it to the range master. Upon examination he told her that there was no firing pin.
> 
> As it turned out her previous husband had removed the firing pin. Furious does not begin to describe how angry she was.



 If had been him, after removing the pin...I would have filed for divorce...the two just seem to justify each other...


----------



## Camper6 (Feb 26, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> Same here.  I've been around guns all my life.  I was taught at an early age to respect them and to handle them safely and responsibly, and I will continue to do so.



Did any of you own an AR-15 semi automatic gun like the one that was used in Vegas, Texas, and recently Florida.

I know everyone pines for the good old days and what used to be.

It's a different world out there and a different mindset.


----------



## Traveler (Feb 26, 2018)

rgp said:


> If had been him, after removing the pin...I would have filed for divorce...the two just seem to justify each other...




OH ? Really ?Why is that ?


----------



## KingsX (Feb 26, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Did any of you own an AR-15 semi automatic gun like the one that was used in Vegas, Texas, and recently Florida.
> 
> I know everyone pines for the good old days and what used to be.
> 
> It's a different world out there and a different mindset.




The AR-15 is very popular with gun owners,  including me.


----------



## Camper6 (Feb 27, 2018)

KingsX said:


> The AR-15 is very popular with gun owners,  including me.



The question I asked was did you own one as a kid?  

The way I look at it there's no way a high school student should be owning a semi automatic rapid fire rifle.


----------



## Ken N Tx (Feb 27, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> Did any of you own an AR-15 semi automatic gun like the one that was used in Vegas, Texas, and recently Florida.
> 
> I know everyone pines for the good old days and what used to be.
> 
> It's a different world out there and a different mindset.





Camper6 said:


> The question I asked was did you own one as a kid?
> 
> The way I look at it there's no way a high school student should be owning a semi automatic rapid fire rifle.


.My son and grandson both own one and come out here to Target/skeet shooting. I have shot one but would not want one.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Feb 27, 2018)

Ken N Tx said:


> .My son and grandson both own one and come out here to Target/skeet shooting. I have shot one but would not want one.



Ken,

I'm curious about what drew them to purchase AR-15 semi automatic rifles.  Was it to test their skill, hunting, protection, just because they are cool, etc...

I grew up around long guns in a hunting family but they were all pretty basic shotguns, .22, .30-06, etc...

I'm not against gun ownership but I don't see a good reason for an individual to own such a powerful weapon.  I'm just curious about your thoughts and those of your family when it comes to owning this type of gun.  Just looking for an honest view/opinion from a person whose judgement in such matters I respect.

Thanks, B


----------



## Ken N Tx (Feb 27, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> Ken,
> 
> I'm curious about what drew them to purchase AR-15 semi automatic rifles.  Was it to test their skill, hunting, protection, just because they are cool, etc...
> 
> ...


They/we have our long guns and pistols. I personally do not want or see a need for an AR-15. They both deer hunt (not with AR) and Target and skeet shooting.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Feb 27, 2018)

Ken N Tx said:


> They/we have our long guns and pistols. I personally do not want or see a need for an AR-15. They both deer hunt (not with AR) and Target and skeet shooting.



Thanks!


----------



## exwisehe (Feb 27, 2018)

I'm sorry, but I have to say this, and I already know that it will be met with sarcasm, scoffing, and accusations that I'm a religious fanatic.  But its how I feel and from previous posts, you know where I'm coming from, or you can read my profile if desired. So....

On February 19, 2008, the Florida State Board of Education adopted new science standards in a 4-3 vote. The new science curriculum standards explicitly require the teaching of the "scientific theory of evolution".

Basically, evolution teaches that natural selection, random mutation, and other similarly undirected natural processes have produced all that change implied by the tree of life, so that all the forms of life we see today are the result of this purely natural mechanism called natural selection and random mutation.

To a young, impressionable mind, this is saying that humans are born because of a “biological process” with no thought to being God’s creation, as special person in God’s image, one He loves and seeks to redeem, and one born with unique characteristics with a purpose for his/her life.

Evolution avoids the truth that humans are infected with a lethal malady, called sin. I’m a sinner, you’re a sinner, and all have been born in sin. Therefore, youth of today don’t hear the Good News – God died for us (Rom 5:8).  The penalty of our disease has been remedied, and there is no condemnation and hell can be avoided to all who accept Him.  The blood spilled on a cruel has paid the debt in full, and so we can experience the peace of God.

The bible and the truth of the a loving God has been thrown out of the schools, unfortunately for the most part.  I should know.  For the past 18 years I have been a member of a Christian group whose only objective is to distribute God’s Word to those in the highways and byways of life – especially to school children.  I have been yelled at, had the police called on me, lectured to by school administrators, etc.  However, I’ll continue my work as long as God allows.

I welcome your comments - whether good or bad.


----------



## Sunny (Feb 27, 2018)

> I'm curious about what drew them to purchase AR-15 semi automatic rifles.



And that's a good, incisive question, Aunt Bea.  Maybe if we as a nation found out what is prompting this insanity, we could find a way to get to the root problem and remove the need of some people, particularly
angry adolescents, to own one.


----------



## Camper6 (Feb 27, 2018)

Sunny said:


> And that's a good, incisive question, Aunt Bea.  Maybe if we as a nation found out what is prompting this insanity, we could find a way to get to the root problem and remove the need of some people, particularly
> angry adolescents, to own one.



It's only males.  It's the macho thing. G.I. Joe was a popular toy with boys.  Girls favored Barbie.

I don't see anywhere where a female has committed a mass murder with those type of weapons.


----------



## James (Feb 27, 2018)

I loved my GI Joe's.  The only guns I've had were the ones that were issued to me over the course of my career.

Only one I have now is my grandfather's pellet rifle.


----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 27, 2018)

I loved my GI Joes as well. Never went on a shooting rampage. 

I _did_ blow up a few Joes with firecrackers, and a few Joes ended up going on "extended furloughs" with Barbie and her friends, but ...


----------



## RadishRose (Feb 27, 2018)




----------



## SifuPhil (Feb 27, 2018)

That second picture is very disturbing.

A kid that age, wearing a dark skinny tie ...


----------



## KingsX (Feb 27, 2018)

Camper6 said:


> The question I asked was did you own one *as a kid?*




That wasn't your question that I quoted and answered.

As a "kid"... I was only allowed to handle a gun with adult supervision during target practice.
At the time my family owned a farm in a very rural area so we had good reason to own guns 
and lots of space for target practice.


----------



## RadishRose (Feb 27, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> That second picture is very disturbing.
> 
> A kid that age, wearing a dark skinny tie ...



:goodone:


----------



## Traveler (Feb 27, 2018)

I think that if we focus on *why *school shooters are so incredibly angry, we will be much closer to solving the problem. In my opinion, AR-15's or no AR-15's, the school shootings will continue until we address the deeper issue of *why *school shooters are so very angry.


----------



## rgp (Feb 27, 2018)

SifuPhil said:


> That second picture is very disturbing.
> 
> A kid that age, wearing a dark skinny tie ...



 Is that a shoulder holster as well ?........Elliot Ness...the early years ?...


----------



## Warrigal (Feb 27, 2018)

As a child I preferred playing with cap guns to playing with dolls and I saved up to buy my own Davey Crockett cap rifle. We also fashioned our own home made bows and arrows for when we were playing Robin Hood games. Girls can appreciate adventure games too but at the same time my mum was teaching me to be kind to animals and people. I hated killing anything, even something as lowly as a beetle.

Therefore - teach kindness more and place less emphasis on entitlement.


----------



## Warrigal (Feb 27, 2018)

Traveler said:


> I think that if we focus on *why *school shooters are so incredibly angry, we will be much closer to solving the problem. In my opinion, AR-15's or no AR-15's, the school shootings will continue until we address the deeper issue of *why *school shooters are so very angry.



School shooters are the tip of the iceberg. Suicide and domestic violence are other problems and the weapon of choice varies but firearms are a big part of these deaths too.

There is no one size fits all, and fixes all, to the problem of too many people dying violently.

I do agree that effort to understand the killers would be very worthwhile.


----------



## AZ Jim (Feb 27, 2018)

As a little boy, I liked playing with little girls!!


----------



## Butterfly (Feb 27, 2018)

Olivia said:


> My neighbor who lived alone for two years after his wife passed, was doing very well at the age of 89. He went out every day to just go out, had dinners and lunches with neighbor friends, in other words doing well. Then one day he got it into his head that his neighbor and friend of 40 years stole a clock on the wall of his garage. He took his gun over to his neighbor, showed him his gun and told him that he knows that the clock was in the neighbor's bedroom. When he went out daily, anybody could walk right into to his garage and take anything they wanted. I had the key to his house and if he thought something was missing, he could have accused me and come over with his gun. Anyway, he was arrested and jailed and apparently had a great old time making friends with the jailhouse guards. He's on five-years probation and his son moved him to Florida where he lives.
> 
> One morning making breakfast and watching the TV news, a report came on that a husband and wife were found dead in their home. What happened was that the daughter was a long-time friend of mine and it turned out that she couldn't get hold of her parents for a few days, and finally went to the house and had to climb through a window to get inside where she found her mom and dad dead on the kitchen floor. The mother had shot the father and then shot herself.
> 
> ...



If I didn't want to live next door to a neighbor with a gun, I'd have to move out of state, and I couldn't live near myself, either!


----------



## James (Feb 27, 2018)

I was destined to be a Lawman from the get go.  Loved my Wyatt Earp Vest & Six Shooter!


----------



## Olivia (Feb 27, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> If I didn't want to live next door to a neighbor with a gun, I'd have to move out of state, and I couldn't live near myself, either!



That last line was me being facetious. However, I would still like to know what kind of person lived next door with a gun. Neighborhoods are changing and the way it's going we're never really going to know who we are living next to anymore.


----------



## Butterfly (Feb 28, 2018)

Olivia said:


> That last line was me being facetious. However, I would still like to know what kind of person lived next door with a gun. Neighborhoods are changing and the way it's going we're never really going to know who we are living next to anymore.



Most of us who have guns do not go around advertising it.  Most gun owners are just ordinary, average people -- not crazed gun nuts or gang bangers.  We do not have horns or funny hats.  We do not drag a neighborhood down; we've always been there.  We are just people who have guns for personal protection  -- we are your neighbors, shopkeepers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, and the people who sit next to you on the bus or in church.  I am the little grey haired lady you see out walking her dog or working at a charity function.


----------



## rgp (Feb 28, 2018)

" Neighborhoods are changing and the way it's going we're never really going to know who we are living next to anymore."

   We never really did........


----------



## Olivia (Feb 28, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> Most of us who have guns do not go around advertising it.  Most gun owners are just ordinary, average people -- not crazed gun nuts or gang bangers.  We do not have horns or funny hats.  We do not drag a neighborhood down; we've always been there.  We are just people who have guns for personal protection  -- we are your neighbors, shopkeepers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, and the people who sit next to you on the bus or in church.  I am the little grey haired lady you see out walking her dog or working at a charity function.



It wasn't my intention to imply that I thought gun owners in general are untrustworthy even if we do know that there are some people that are. And I have no desire to have guns taken away from legal gun owners or wanting to have the 2nd Amendment repealed at all.

I lived next to a neighbor who threatened another neighbor with a gun because he thought that neighbor stole something from his garage.


----------

