# Dow Sees Biggest-Ever One-Day Plunge, Closes down 2,013 points on coronavirus fears.



## Robert59 (Mar 9, 2020)

Closes down 2,013 points on coronavirus fears 
How much more will it drop you think?   Thanks


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

it was the most points , but not the largest drop percentage wise which is what counts .... the biggest drop in a day that inflicted the most damage was oct 19 1987 clocking in at a whopping 22% ..... that makes the 8% drop yesterday a walk in the park in comparison .

no one can even guess this bottom .


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## Robert59 (Mar 10, 2020)

I would like to see Amazon and Google drop so I can afford to buy it. What do you think about the oil and gas stock prices?


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

i think that opec will have to reach an agreement ...  it makes no sense to have to handle and ship more product at lower prices to make the same profits ....

i think as a long term investment oil is going the way of  blockbuster  and kodak   ...what was once in short supply and scarce is abundant today as technology  made to much supply ...

technology has also cut demand big time .... personally i would not  be a long term investor in it ...

it will see a short term pop up though .


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## Robert59 (Mar 10, 2020)

I just bought some Occidental Petroleum Corporation stock three months ago and now I wish I didn't buy.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

as my long term investments i don't buy individual stocks .. i buy etf's and mutual funds for diversification ...i don't need to take on both market risk and individual company risk at this stage .

not only do you need to understand everything about the stock you pick , but you need to better know everything about their competitors too


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## rgp (Mar 10, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> I would like to see Amazon and Google drop so I can afford to buy it. What do you think about the oil and gas stock prices?




 You can buy it now...just buy fewer shares...Or would you rather see others loose value on their portfolio to open an opportunity just for you?


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

for many older investors our portfolios pretty much have full fuel tanks at this stage .... getting little bits of money in at  crash levels  can be like peeing in the ocean ... in the scheme of things it won't add much , but the damage done to the bulk of the money could be awful in comparison .

so be careful what one wishes for


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## Don M. (Mar 10, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


> so be careful what one wishes for



Amen!  I suspect the markets will be suffering from "whiplash" for the next few days/weeks....perhaps even months.  Today, the markets started out well into the Green at the opening, but are already sliding downwards....with the NASDAQ solidly into the Red.  There is so much uncertainty going on that any attempts to time this market would be almost futile.  Diversity into conservative investments will probably be the Best way to avoid major losses during this mess.  It took about a year for the markets to stabilize during the financial crisis, and this situation could be similar.


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## oldman (Mar 10, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


> for many older investors our portfolios pretty much have full fuel tanks at this stage .... getting little bits of money in at  crash levels  can be like peeing in the ocean ... in the scheme of things it won't add much , but the damage done to the bulk of the money could be awful in comparison .
> 
> so be careful what one wishes for





mathjak107 said:


> it was the most points , but not the largest drop percentage wise which is what counts .... the biggest drop in a day that inflicted the most damage was oct 19 1987 clocking in at a whopping 22% ..... that makes the 8% drop yesterday a walk in the park in comparison .
> 
> no one can even guess this bottom .


If I remember correctly, what happened on that day in the markets is what brought about the circuit breakers, which is an attempt to prevent a market crash.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)




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## oldman (Mar 10, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


> i think that opec will have to reach an agreement ...  it makes no sense to have to handle and ship more product at lower prices to make the same profits ....
> 
> i think as a long term investment oil is going the way of  blockbuster  and kodak   ...what was once in short supply and scarce is abundant today as technology  made to much supply ...
> 
> ...


At one time I belonged to an investment group. We often bought futures, including oil, some agriculture stuff and commodities, but that was back pre 1980 when markets were more stable. The landscape or make-up of the markets have done a complete make-over since those days, mainly thanks to technology. We had a few people in our group that were as sharp as a tack. We traded futures and individual stocks on both the NYSE & the NASDAQ. We also got into hedge funds, which at that time were very profitable, if you made good choices. 

We didn’t really have a strategy. There was one member of the group that was big on charts. He would chart a stock for weeks before recommending it. When he did, he would get out all his charts and show us how the stock performed over 100 days and from that come up with a moving average. Actually, what he was doing was trying to time the stock when it would peak. I don’t remember him ever being on target, but he did help us make money.

Then, we took in a broker from Merrill Lynch. It was then that they started going global and also trading currencies that I decided to cash in my chips and go home. It got to be too much. The group is still together today. At that time, we were called Penn State Investment Group, but now it has another name and has added about 30 more members for a total of maybe 75. They also incorporated as an LLC, which when I was a member, we weren’t.


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## oldman (Mar 10, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


>


Aww, yes. Black Monday.


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## Knight (Mar 10, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> I would like to see Amazon and Google drop so I can afford to buy it. What do you think about the oil and gas stock prices?


How many shares would you buy ?  What price increase would be your sell point ?


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## Pepper (Mar 10, 2020)

The market is over-inflated and too high based on no solid reasoning at all.  It's been doomed to crash somewhat for awhile now.  Near 30,000 is not rooted in reality.


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## StarSong (Mar 10, 2020)

I'd like to pose a question.  The market supposedly is better today at least in part because of Trump's comment about cutting payroll taxes.  
I don't understand how cutting payroll taxes helps workers unless there's a corresponding cut in income taxes.

Am I missing something?


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I'd like to pose a question.  The market supposedly is better today at least in part because of Trump's comment about cutting payroll taxes.
> I don't understand how cutting payroll taxes helps workers unless there's a corresponding cut in income taxes.
> 
> Am I missing something?


cutting any tax , that gives a worker more in his check is the same as cutting income tax .... the amount taken out will be reduced


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## oldman (Mar 10, 2020)

Payroll taxes are those taxes that are collected through payroll deductions. Like. Income tax, SS tax, etc.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> I just bought some Occidental Petroleum Corporation stock three months ago and now I wish I didn't buy.




they are cutting the dividend . earnings are negative .....this is an example of no profit but dividends are still paid driving the share price lower as each payment is subtracted off the share price .


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## oldman (Mar 10, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


> they are cutting the dividend . earnings are negative .....this is an example of no profit but dividends are still paid driving the share price lower as each payment is subtracted off the share price .


According to Market Watch, OXY raised their dividend to a record of 25%. Is that correct?


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

oldman said:


> According to Market Watch, OXY raised their dividend to a record of 25%. Is that correct?


No , the dividend yield is 25% because of a falling share price .... that is not raising a dividend ..the. Dividend was just cut...

if a stock cost 100 dollars and the dividend is 10 dollars that is a 10% yield ....if the stock falls in price to just 50 dollars and the dividend is the same it is a 20% yield ....that is not a good thing.

Occidental Petroleum Corp. OXY, 9.752% shares were halted in Tuesday trading after the energy company announced that it was slashing its dividend to 11 cents per share from 79 cents per share, effective July 20

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/o...tock-halted-after-dividend-slashed-2020-03-10


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## StarSong (Mar 10, 2020)

It's only the same as cutting income tax if they cut income tax at the same time.  

If the brackets and rates remain the same as they are now, it's no different from claiming more dependents and having to pay the difference when doing one's taxes. Is he framing it as "reducing payroll taxes" when he's actually hoping to reduce income taxes?


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## oldman (Mar 10, 2020)

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/oc...s-to-25-the-day-before-record-date-2020-03-09

I guess the board had a change of heart.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

StarSong said:


> It's only the same as cutting income tax if they cut income tax at the same time.
> 
> If the brackets and rates remain the same as they are now, it's no different from claiming more dependents and having to pay the difference when doing one's taxes. Is he framing it as "reducing payroll taxes" when he's actually hoping to reduce income taxes?


Not correct  .....fica is taxed as part of our income

so if you earn 100 dollars 100 is taxed as income even though roughly 6.50 goes for fica of that 100 .we pay  taxes on the tax so to speak .

now you would  you still pay the same tax on 100 dollars like before but only 4.50 goes to fica ...you net  2 dollars  more in your take home with no additional income tax since you pay taxes on 100 regardless


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## oldman (Mar 10, 2020)

StarSong said:


> It's only the same as cutting income tax if they cut income tax at the same time.
> 
> If the brackets and rates remain the same as they are now, it's no different from claiming more dependents and having to pay the difference when doing one's taxes. Is he framing it as "reducing payroll taxes" when he's actually hoping to reduce income taxes?


I have to be truthful. Taxes confuse me, thus the reason why I use a CPA firm to do my quarterly returns. My wife and I have fairly decent size trust funds that are managed by a guardianship. Last year, our taxes were basically little to no change from previous years. This year, I received an estimated review of the trusts from the CPA firm and is shows that my taxes will more than likely rise more that I like, however, considering how the market has performed its no wonder. Overall, the trusts will increase somewhere between 8-12%.


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## C'est Moi (Mar 10, 2020)

I'm wondering if the cut in payroll tax will mean that the tax tables remain the same, so at the end of the year people will have to pony up those taxes?   I can't see how this will work.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> I'm wondering if the cut in payroll tax will mean that the tax tables remain the same, so at the end of the year people will have to pony up those taxes?   I can't see how this will work.


You already are taxed on the full amount you earn pre payroll taxes ...you pay tax on what comes out ....so think of it as fica handing you back two of the 6 bucks they take that you already are taxed on ....it is a net of two dollars in your pocket  and is not taxable since you already were taxed on it


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

oldman said:


> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/oc...s-to-25-the-day-before-record-date-2020-03-09
> 
> I guess the board had a change of heart.


No they didn’t ...the dividend was cut from 3.16 to 79 cents for April  ....the stock fell so much that at  3.16  would be a 22% dividend if  they did not cut to .79 cents ...it is supposed to go to 11 cents in July
With the stock losing 52.0%--the biggest one-day selloff in its history--to $12.51, the current annual dividend rate of $3.16 a share implies a dividend yield of 25.26%.

Rising Dividend yields from a falling share price are a very bad thing ....... rising dividends from the board increasing them is a good thing .......

this is an awful thing....oxy  is bleeding red..... Their losses are huge.

Shares yesterday crumbled to about the level of the company's 1982 IPO.  for those who think dividends come from profits  guess again .... they come only from the board declaring payouts off your share price ,whether there are profits or losses .

Occidental Petroleum Corporation (NYSE: OXY) announced today that its Board of Directors approved a reduction in the company’s quarterly dividend to $0.11 per share from $0.79 per share, effective July 2020. The company also announced it will reduce 2020 capital spending to between $3.5 billion and $3.7 billion from $5.2 billion to $5.4 billion and will implement additional operating and corporate cost reductions.


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## StarSong (Mar 10, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


> Not correct  .....fica is taxed as part of our income
> 
> so if you earn 100 dollars 100 is taxed as income even though roughly 6.50 goes for fica of that 100 .we pay  taxes on the tax so to speak .
> 
> now you would  you still pay the same tax on 100 dollars like before but only 4.50 goes to fica ...you net  2 dollars  more in your take home with no additional income tax since you pay taxes on 100 regardless


FICA is Social Security, which is already in trouble.  That's what he's talking about reducing?  

I've seen no specifics on his plan, which is why I'm asking.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

StarSong said:


> FICA is Social Security, which is already in trouble.  That's what he's talking about reducing?
> 
> I've seen no specifics on his plan, which is why I'm asking.


He has not said much yet other than he wants to put a few extra dollars for now in workers pockets


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## fmdog44 (Mar 10, 2020)

What we should all be afraid about is a political move to get the market back on track strictly to influence the coming November election.


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## Pecos (Mar 10, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I'd like to pose a question.  The market supposedly is better today at least in part because of Trump's comment about cutting payroll taxes.
> I don't understand how cutting payroll taxes helps workers unless there's a corresponding cut in income taxes.
> 
> Am I missing something?


If you are missing something, so am I.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

If you earn 100 dollars and are taxed on 100 dollars the fact you have to give me 6 as a payroll tax is irrelevant tax wise since you are always taxed on the gross amount before fica .

Your tax is on 100 in income period, no matter how much fica I pull from you fica is not deductible and it is taxed as income ..if I say give me just 4 instead of 6 you are still taxed on 100 but now have 2 additional dollars in pocket to spend ...it has nothing to do with them changing tax tables ....if anything every year tax brackets are extended to allow more income at lower levels of tax


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## C'est Moi (Mar 10, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> What we should all be afraid about is a political move to get the market back on track strictly to influence the coming November election.


That's exactly what BOTH SIDES are focusing on.   And we don't need politics in this discussion to get the thread closed.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 10, 2020)

Don M. said:


> Amen!  I suspect the markets will be suffering from "whiplash" for the next few days/weeks....perhaps even months.  Today, the markets started out well into the Green at the opening, but are already sliding downwards....with the NASDAQ solidly into the Red.  There is so much uncertainty going on that any attempts to time this market would be almost futile.  Diversity into conservative investments will probably be the Best way to avoid major losses during this mess.  It took about a year for the markets to stabilize during the financial crisis, and this situation could be similar.


Nasdaq closed up 393.58 points today Don. Don't know what part of the day you saw red. Dow 1,167.14 and S & P 135.62.  I think we're in for a wild roller coaster ride.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Nasdaq closed up 393.58 points today Don. Don't know what part of the day you saw red. Dow 1,167.14 and S & P 135.62.  I think we're in for a wild roller coaster ride.


We were down earlier and lost an 1100 point gain .....fixed income got slammed bad today as bonds got hit with heavy losses....we recovered in stocks later in the day but bond funds ended at the lows


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 10, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


> We were down earlier and lost an 1100 point gain .....fixed income got slammed bad today as bonds got hit with heavy losses....we recovered in stocks later in the day but bond funds ended at the lows


I was out shopping with the senior group during that time. By the time I checked the markets they were in recovery. As you know, I don't concern myself with bonds.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I was out shopping with the senior group during that time. By the time I checked the markets they were in recovery. As you know, I don't concern myself with bonds.


Yesterday was incredible for the long treasury bond ...  I was Tlt up like 8% at one point ....that is an insane gain for a govt bond ....it fell 5% today as stocks recovered


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I was out shopping with the senior group during that time. By the time I checked the markets they were in recovery. As you know, I don't concern myself with bonds.


What if you traded funds like Tlt for the capital appreciation and then sold it before the record date for interest ?.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 10, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


> What if you traded funds like Tlt for the capital appreciation and then sold it before the record date for interest ?.


What's TIT? We can collect capital gains and dividends and a very small percentage of interest, which we are encouraged to disperse as charity to non Muslims, but are discouraged from trading in bonds.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 10, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> What's TIT? We can collect capital gains and dividends and a very small percentage of interest, which we are encouraged to disperse as charity to non Muslims, but are discouraged from trading in bonds.


It is the long treasury bond fund Tlt ....it holds long term bonds ....it is as volatile as stocks can be ...it is up 45% over the last year ...it usually goes up when stocks fall bad ....


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## oldman (Mar 10, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


> It is the long treasury bond fund Tlt ....it holds long term bonds ....it is as volatile as stocks can be ...it is up 45% over the last year ...it usually goes up when stocks fall bad ....


That’s because the bond market likes bad news as Rick Santorum on CNBC always says.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 11, 2020)

oldman said:


> That’s because the bond market likes bad news as Rick Santorum on CNBC always says.


not the bond market but treasuries .. big difference ..... treasuries were up the day of the big fall.  total bond funds , corporate bonds and high yield took a nasty fall .... they react more like stocks because credit ratings come in to play ... a flight to safety should be treasuries only .


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## oldman (Mar 11, 2020)

Not talking about corporate bonds, only government bonds.


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## Don M. (Mar 11, 2020)

Today, the markets "officially" moved into Bear territory.....all of the major indexes down about 5%.  It's going to be pretty hard to find any stability for the foreseeable future.


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## oldman (Mar 11, 2020)

Don M. said:


> Today, the markets "officially" moved into Bear territory.....all of the major indexes down about 5%.  It's going to be pretty hard to find any stability for the foreseeable future.


Maybe the shorts are doing well.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 11, 2020)

Don M. said:


> Today, the markets "officially" moved into Bear territory.....all of the major indexes down about 5%.  It's going to be pretty hard to find any stability for the foreseeable future.



one thing about markets is they flip way before there is any sign anything changed.    that is why timing fails so often


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## fmdog44 (Mar 11, 2020)

No vaccine= no reason for this "disease market" to get healthy. 1-1 1/2 years with no vaccine


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 11, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> I'm wondering if the cut in payroll tax will mean that the tax tables remain the same, so at the end of the year people will have to pony up those taxes?   I can't see how this will work.


IMO it's an example of political sleight of hand to use the virus as a creative first step on the slippery slope to weaken/dismantle the so-called entitlements.


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## C'est Moi (Mar 11, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO it's an example of political sleight of hand to use the virus as a creative first step on the slippery slope to weaken/dismantle the so-called entitlements.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  Payroll taxes are in no way an "entitlement."


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 11, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  Payroll taxes are in no way an "entitlement."


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.

I thought the plan was to reduce FICA which is sometimes referred to as a payroll tax.

Additionally, sources told Fox News that Trump would like to eventually make the payroll tax cut permanent and fund Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance from general revenues.


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## oldmontana (Mar 11, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.
> 
> I thought the plan was to reduce FICA which is sometimes referred to as a payroll tax.
> 
> Additionally, sources told Fox News that Trump would like to eventually make the payroll tax cut permanent and fund Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance from general revenues.


I believe that is what Trump said....I can not see it working or getting passed.


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## oldmontana (Mar 11, 2020)

Don M. said:


> Today, the markets "officially" moved into Bear territory.....all of the major indexes down about 5%.  It's going to be pretty hard to find any stability for the foreseeable future.


I agree.  With all the closings of everything from sporting events to political events and people not flying, etc.  its going to take a long time for the market to start back up. I think it well not start back up until the coronavirus "thing" is in the rear view mirror.  Six months?  Three months?  One year?  What do you think?  


We are going to hold on and the stocks we own for the most part will continue to pay their dividends.


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## C'est Moi (Mar 11, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.
> 
> I thought the plan was to reduce FICA which is sometimes referred to as a payroll tax.
> 
> Additionally, sources told Fox News that Trump would like to eventually make the payroll tax cut permanent and fund Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance from general revenues.


I don't know what Fox News said, but I'm confused about what they mean by "payroll tax."   From Investopedia...  _In the United States, payroll taxes are divided into three main categories: *Federal income,* Medicare, and Social Security. The government also collects money for federal unemployment programs._

My original post in this thread was questioning whether the tax tables would remain the same and people would need to pay uncollected federal income taxes at tax time next year.  

Also, I thought the president's plan was to eliminate payroll taxes through the end of this year.  I'm not aware of any permanent change proposal, but then I haven't been paying close attention.


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## Gardenlover (Mar 11, 2020)

Gold is looking better and better although the price is still rather low (I always thought gold rose as stocks plunged), perhaps a good time to buy.

When, if ever, would you eggheads buy gold? (I use eggheads in a complementary manner here - as in educated investor.)


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 11, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> Gold is looking better and better although the price is still rather low (I always thought gold rose as stocks plunged), perhaps a good time to buy.
> 
> When, if ever, would you eggheads buy gold? (I use eggheads in a complementary manner here - as in educated investor.)


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## Gardenlover (Mar 11, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> View attachment 95132


Ack, I already have three wives, no more gold bands for me.


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 11, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> Ack, I already have three wives, no more gold bands for me.


So gold wasn't such a good investment after all.

Precious metals and commodities are fine they are just not for me.


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## Pepper (Mar 11, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> Ack, I already have three wives, no more gold bands for me.


You've reached your full allotment of wives?


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## Gardenlover (Mar 11, 2020)

Pepper said:


> You've reached your full allotment of wives?


Hopefully, hopefully - their about all I can handle - unbelievable I know - but a man, of even my stature, has his limits. Always wondered how good old king Solomon survived so many.


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## Pepper (Mar 11, 2020)

@Gardenlover 
a slug of Geritol, that's what you need!


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## Gardenlover (Mar 11, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @Gardenlover
> a slug of Geritol, that's what you need!


and a number of little blue pills.


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## Pepper (Mar 11, 2020)

or.................Vitameatavegamin


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## Gardenlover (Mar 11, 2020)

Pepper said:


> or.................Vitameatavegamin


First I've heard of that demon brew.


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## Pepper (Mar 11, 2020)




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## Don M. (Mar 11, 2020)

oldmontana said:


> I agree.  With all the closings of everything from sporting events to political events and people not flying, etc.  its going to take a long time for the market to start back up. I think it well not start back up until the coronavirus "thing" is in the rear view mirror.  Six months?  Three months?  One year?  What do you think?



And....this evening a ban was placed on European travel....set to take effect Friday.  That announcement has driven the pre-market trading down another 4+%.  A couple of days ago, I read an article from a "analyst" who was predicting a 40% drop in the markets.  At the time, that sounded unrealistic....but, with every passing day, such a dire prediction seems more plausible.


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## Butterfly (Mar 11, 2020)

oldmontana said:


> I believe that is what Trump said....I can not see it working or getting passed.





Aunt Bea said:


> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.
> 
> I thought the plan was to reduce FICA which is sometimes referred to as a payroll tax.
> 
> Additionally, sources told Fox News that Trump would like to eventually make the payroll tax cut permanent and fund Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance from general revenues.




That was my understanding as well, Aunt Bea.  To me, to eliminate FICA till the end of the year would only further weaken Social Security and Medicare and would not help the taxpayer much anyway.

I also think that to fund Medicare and social security from general revenue would be the death knell of both programs.


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## rgp (Mar 12, 2020)

Don M. said:


> And....this evening a ban was placed on European travel....set to take effect Friday.  That announcement has driven the pre-market trading down another 4+%.  A couple of days ago, I read an article from a "analyst" who was predicting a 40% drop in the markets.  At the time, that sounded unrealistic....but, with every passing day, such a dire prediction seems more plausible.




 I'm contemplating selling out, before it drops any farther. I hate to, as I have been invested in the company {P&G} for over 50 years, but I hate to loose anymore either. Truly has becoming trying times...regarding the market I mean. On the other hand, staying healthy is far more important.


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## Don M. (Mar 12, 2020)

rgp said:


> I'm contemplating selling out, before it drops any farther. I hate to, as I have been invested in the company {P&G} for over 50 years, but I hate to loose anymore either. Truly has becoming trying times...regarding the market I mean. On the other hand, staying healthy is far more important.



I "chickened out" about 2 weeks ago, and moved most of my IRA into cash and bonds.  I lost 7 or 8 percent in just a couple of days, and could see the probability of losing far more if I stayed put.  I intend to stay out of the markets until some positive news comes out with regard to this virus....which may be weeks/months.  I own some stocks, and they have lost well over 20% in the last couple of weeks....but, those are funds I don't need...for now, so they can stay put.   
The thing I find confusing about this market is the lack of positive movement in precious metals.  Usually gold and silver rises substantially when equities fall, but not this time....to me, that is a Strong clue that things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.


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## rgp (Mar 12, 2020)

Don M. said:


> I "chickened out" about 2 weeks ago, and moved most of my IRA into cash and bonds.  I lost 7 or 8 percent in just a couple of days, and could see the probability of losing far more if I stayed put.  I intend to stay out of the markets until some positive news comes out with regard to this virus....which may be weeks/months.  I own some stocks, and they have lost well over 20% in the last couple of weeks....but, those are funds I don't need...for now, so they can stay put.
> The thing I find confusing about this market is the lack of positive movement in precious metals.  Usually gold and silver rises substantially when equities fall, but not this time....to me, that is a Strong clue that things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.



  "but, those are funds I don't need...for now, so they can stay put.  "

  Well, that is how I feel about my P&G, never planned on using / needing it...but always nice to know the cushion was there. I too am down about 20%. At this very moment, just cannot bring myself to dump it.


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## Butterfly (Mar 12, 2020)

I am going to grit my teeth and ride it out, as I did in 2008.


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## oldman (Mar 12, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> View attachment 95132


Gold prices are under pressure probably because of the volatility of the market and that investors are seeking to sell and hold cash. The PPI hasn’t moved either way very much and inflation is also not an issue. So, investors during times like this will sit on the sidelines counting their cash while they are waiting for the market to begin a rebound.


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## oldman (Mar 12, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> I am going to grit my teeth and ride it out, as I did in 2008.


At this point, you may as well. Sooner or later, the market will rebound and by December, we will be talking about some other issue.


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## oldmontana (Mar 12, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> I am going to grit my teeth and ride it out, as I did in 2008.


When the coronavirus  "thing" is over I look for stocks to come back close to were they were a month ago.  Stocks are down so low I do not think its the time to sell unless one needs money.  We will keep getting our dividends and like you..ride it out. 

What surprise me is utility stocks are down so much when people are still going to use power, even if they do not work.


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## rgp (Mar 12, 2020)

oldmontana said:


> When the coronavirus  "thing" is over I look for stocks to come back close to were they were a month ago.  Stocks are down so low I do not think its the time to sell unless one needs money.  We will keep getting our dividends and like you..ride it out.
> 
> What surprise me is utility stocks are down so much when people are still going to use power, even if they do not work.




 Allot of the 'down' is due to people _fear_.....fear of their portfolio loosing _all_ it's value. Too much emotion/too little thought.


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## oldman (Mar 12, 2020)

oldmontana said:


> When the coronavirus  "thing" is over I look for stocks to come back close to were they were a month ago.  Stocks are down so low I do not think its the time to sell unless one needs money.  We will keep getting our dividends and like you..ride it out.
> 
> What surprise me is utility stocks are down so much when people are still going to use power, even if they do not work.


One of the talking heads on CNBC stated the same thing just the other day. Industrials and Transportation stocks are understandable being down, but utilities falling along with the rest of the market comes as a head scratcher to me. 

I am not an Economist or Analyst and never even studied it in college. I find some (actually, a lot) of this financial stuff baffling. I use common sense by watching certain numbers and then applying them to what is being discussed. Some of it does make sense, but then again......


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 12, 2020)

Pepper said:


> You've reached your full allotment of wives?


Well if he's Muslim, he's allowed one more.  LOL


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## mathjak107 (Mar 12, 2020)

oldman said:


> Gold prices are under pressure probably because of the volatility of the market and that investors are seeking to sell and hold cash. The PPI hasn’t moved either way very much and inflation is also not an issue. So, investors during times like this will sit on the sidelines counting their cash while they are waiting for the market to begin a rebound.


Ppl was down almost 9% today ....that puts it down including any dividends about 25% this last month


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## Gardenlover (Mar 12, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> So gold wasn't such a good investment after all.
> 
> Precious metals and commodities are fine they are just not for me.


As usually I bought high, but it does stagger my mind that the price of gold is falling along side the price of stocks.


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## Gardenlover (Mar 12, 2020)

oldman said:


> One of the talking heads on CNBC stated the same thing just the other day. Industrials and Transportation stocks are understandable being down, but utilities falling along with the rest of the market comes as a head scratcher to me.
> 
> I am not an Economist or Analyst and never even studied it in college. I find some (actually, a lot) of this financial stuff baffling. I use common sense by watching certain numbers and then applying them to what is being discussed. Some of it does make sense, but then again......


"Perhaps" a good time to buy. But I fear the dip is not quite done yet.


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## oldman (Mar 12, 2020)

mathjak107 said:


> Ppl was down almost 9% today ....that puts it down including any dividends about 25% this last month


I meant to write the ppi—producer price index, which is reported monthly.


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## Robert59 (Mar 13, 2020)

I have a friend that lost 100,000 dollars yesterday he said. I have Walmart stock and wonder if it's going down more? What about buying 3M stock which makes N95 Air Masks.


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## mathjak107 (Mar 13, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> I have a friend that lost 100,000 dollars yesterday he said. I have Walmart stock and wonder if it's going down more? What about buying 3M stock which makes N95 Air Masks.


that is like buying toys r us  christmas time . that ship sailed ... the time to have bought 3m was before the event not after .


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## StarSong (Mar 13, 2020)

Beware the dead cat bounces.


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