# Religion spoilt my childhood!



## Bluecheese50 (Jan 11, 2016)

As a child I had to attend a Pentecostal church with my parents, where Sunday after Sunday the preachers screamed, 'You must be 'saved' or burn in hell'! My sadistic paternal grandmother, who had beaten religion into her six kids yelling, 'spare the rod and spoil the child', had taken great pleasure in describing the tortures awaiting a naughty little girl like me! I had terrible nightmares throughout my childhood. I did the 'saved' bit when I was eleven as I was scared of going to hell, however by the time I married at nineteen, the doubts were too overwhelming and I lost my faith, for which I was grateful. My husband had done the 'saved' bit too as a child, but he lost his faith after he went to university and studied science and theology. 

When our birth daughters came a long we were determined that they should make up their own minds about religion, which they did, all three are Christians, the eldest an Anglican Priest. However, thank goodness they aren't Biblical literalists, and are moderate in their beliefs.

I think threatening people with hell if they don't convert is emotional abuse and should be illegal, as there is not the slightest shred of evidence any deity exists. I am of the opinion all religions are human creations.


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## Falcon (Jan 11, 2016)

Same with me Bluecheese.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 11, 2016)

I'm not sure it spoiled my childhood.. but it for sure didn't help my self esteem.   I remember feeling that no  matter what I did... I was bad.. and a sinner and I needed to always pray for forgiveness..   I never knew what I was doing wrong...


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## Capt Lightning (Jan 11, 2016)

Much the same with me.  Sunday was bible class and church, but at least Presbyterians didn't go in too much for fire and brimstone. Catholicism was regarded as the work of satan and I've seen families torn apart through someone marrying "The other side".
By my teens, I had lost any faith and our children were not baptised.  Curiously, my brother is a church 'Elder' and my sister is very active in the Baptist church.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 11, 2016)

I was born and raised a Catholic.  Went to Catholic grade school for the first eight years, but mainly because it was the school closest to our home.  Luckily my family wasn't really religious so there was no quoting from the bible or threats of hell from my parents, the nuns took care of that for all the children.   I was raised by my parents to treat others as I would like to be treated and to be kind, I saw that around me, didn't need any hell fire threats to be nice to people and animals.

I was in church for those years seven days a week for various reasons, and guess what?  As soon as I went to public high school, my visits to church dwindled quickly until they were nonexistent.  Same thing went for two younger relatives of mine when they got out of the religion trap.  My sister continued to go to church on her own, ended up marrying a Jewish man who was a fine person, good husband and father to her daughter, who they raised in the Jewish faith, but they all celebrated Christian holidays in their home too.  Her husband passed on several years ago from cancer, big loss to all who knew him.

 I follow no organized religion, and I agree Bluecheese, they are human creations.  Although I am not religious myself, I understand that some people truly believe and need something like that in their lives, so I respect their right to worship as long as they don't start preaching to me and trying to convert me.  I also strongly feel that all religion should be kept out of government and politics.  We have enough real problems to deal with.


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## Don M. (Jan 11, 2016)

I had a pretty "diverse" range of religious experiences in my younger years.  My parents weren't really "strong" on religion, but we usually went to a local Presbyterian church in the neighborhood.  The services were generally quite civil.  My Dad was raised as a Lutheran, and Mom came from a Catholic family.  Over the years, I attended a few Catholic Masses with relatives, and a few Jewish services with high school friends.  I never got exposed to any of these "Evangelical" types.  As I grew older, and begin to think for myself, I came to the conclusion that None of these religions could possibly know the real truth of our existence, and what lies beyond.  The teachings all seemed to select key verses out of the Bible that fit the unique perspective of the person at the Pulpit.  It seemed that everything that went on in the services was dedicated to enhancing the passing of the "collection plate". 

I cannot agree with Atheism, and I Do think there is a far greater power guiding the Universe, than we are capable of comprehending.  The Key, IMO, is for a person to live a decent responsible life...and then hope for the best afterwards.


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## jujube (Jan 11, 2016)

I was raised in a rather "mild" protestant church.  No hell and brimstone except for the occasional revival preacher who got a little carried away.  A lot of our family life revolved around church activities as my parents were very involved with the church and there were a lot of activities for children and teens.  

My late husband spent his entire life being directed by his family into the Catholic priesthood.  There was "no question" that he was going to be a priest. In an ultra-Catholic family of eleven kids, you _know_ darned well that there had better be at least one priest and/or a nun.  One of his older sisters entered the novitiate but couldn't make the grade.  When he graduated from college at the seminary he decided against becoming a priest and didn't take vows, much to his family's horror. There were only two kids left at home and neither of them had "vocations".  He then decided to join the army.  They weren't happy about it, but thought that when he finished his service, he would "come to his senses" and go back to the seminary for the final four years.   Unfortunately for them, he met and married me ("The Whore of Babylon" in my late mother-in-law's exact words) in a (horrors) Protestant church.  They literally excised him from the family (more exact words from his mother: "I'd rather be standing over your coffin; I'd rather see you dead and buried") except for one brother and sister who accepted me.  He remained estranged from most of his family for the next five years and truly never had a loving relationship with most of them again.  He turned his back on ALL organized religion and I drifted away from the church, too.  Neither my daughter nor my granddaughter were raised in the church, but my granddaughter started going to church in college and now attends regularly with her SO.  

Although I do not attend church except occasionally, I DO consider myself a Christian....perhaps a Christian-at-Large.  I try to practice the Golden Rule at all times (but with great difficulty at times, I'll admit).   If I had lived long enough ago, I probably would have been a Cathar/Albigensian.  They believed that nobody needed a priest as a go-between; you could talk to God yourself as he was *in* you. As you can imagine, the Catholic Church at the time was.not.going.to.put.up.with.THAT.heresy and came down on them like a duck on a junebug.  Thank goodness, they've outlawed burning at the stake or I'd be a crispy critter by now.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 11, 2016)

Don M. said:


> I had a pretty "diverse" range of religious experiences in my younger years.  My parents weren't really "strong" on religion, but we usually went to a local Presbyterian church in the neighborhood.  The services were generally quite civil.  My Dad was raised as a Lutheran, and Mom came from a Catholic family.  Over the years, I attended a few Catholic Masses with relatives, and a few Jewish services with high school friends.  I never got exposed to any of these "Evangelical" types.  As I grew older, and begin to think for myself, I came to the conclusion that None of these religions could possibly know the real truth of our existence, and what lies beyond.  The teachings all seemed to select key verses out of the Bible that fit the unique perspective of the person at the Pulpit.  It seemed that everything that went on in the services was dedicated to enhancing the passing of the "collection plate".
> 
> *I cannot agree with Atheism, and I Do think there is a far greater power guiding the Universe, than we are capable of comprehending.  The Key, IMO, is for a person to live a decent responsible life...and then hope for the best afterwards*.



As we Agnostics do..


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## applecruncher (Jan 11, 2016)

When I was about age 7, my parents started having problems getting along and it got progressively worse for several years. We (brothers and I) spent a lot of time with relatives. I can't say religion spoiled my childhood, but I spent lots of time with an aunt & uncle who, while good people, were almost fanatical about being involved with the church (Baptist) and studying the bible. That particular aunt died in her 40s and her husband quicky married the divorcee (also heavily involved in the church) with whom he'd been sneaking around with for several years.

My father became involved in the church just after he and my mother divorced. He was extremely dogmatic and throughout his life used religion as an excuse to try to control everyone. 

I have certain beliefs about spirituality, but I don’t subscribe to any organized religion. Some of the biggest hypocrites I’ve known have been people who go to church regularly and push the bible in other people’s faces.


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## Cookie (Jan 11, 2016)

Religion did not spoil my childhood - raised a lax Catholic and enjoyed all the social and community benefits this offers, my parents were easy going about it, the church was part of their cultural identity, but we didn't take it all that seriously.  

My ex, from a small town strict New England French-Catholic background, relatives being nuns and steeped in religious doctrine and rules, left the seminary he had been going to after some 'priest's abuse of young boys' and became immersed in fanatical mysticism and occultism, and joined a spiritual cult in northern India where he lived for the rest of his life and got stranger and stranger as he aged.  We think he may have been suffering from some kind of delusional psychiatric disorder. I'd say religion did ruin his life, but who's to say for sure. 

It did ruin part of my adult life though, the years I spent in the same cult, the negative effect on my relationships and family, the havoc it wreaked on my self esteem, but I left about 25 years ago live a normal life.


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## Manatee (Jan 11, 2016)

I never believed in Hell, and the rest just sort of falls apart without a Hell.


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## imp (Jan 11, 2016)

*"I am of the opinion all religions are human creations."

*I'm going to reveal a side of me heretofore unmentioned in this rag. It may cost a lot, but I gotta say it. As a kid living outside of Chicago, almost all of our neighbors were Catholic. My Mom was raised Catholic. The neighbor's girl, my age, admonished me for not going to church, when we were about 10 or so. I asked my Folks about it. They suggested I try attending with Michaelene, if I wanted to. Well, I didn't like the girl, too snooty for me, so did not.

As the years moved along, I saw firsthand the hypocrisy generated by one "church" against another. I at the same time gleaned information suggesting how worship may be carried out. Prayer to God is accepted by Him, no matter from where it is projected. One's "church" can be anyplace one happens to be, when prayer feels needed. Yet, enormous bastions to his holiness have been erected everywhere, the church leaders associated with any one of them implying that attendance at these shrines are necessary for "salvation". I began to question these propositions as a teen. If God accepts prayer universally, why would He demand that I "pay" a price to do so? Every church seeks donation from the parishioner, keeps the truck coming back monthly, as my co-worker George Michnik pointed out, having grown up across the alley from a large church in Chicago. He recounted seeing dozens of cases of wines and liquor delivered there. Hypocrisy? Tell the parishioner drinking is wrong, then close up shop and swill away in private?

I hasten to say, I do not mean to denigrate the Catholic Church only; I mentioned it because it was prevailingly incumbent in our area. I seek to denigrate them ALL. Human beings are the only form of life fully aware of their mortality. As such, all sorts of contrivance has been developed and built upon over the ages, aimed at securing "eternal life". Very early on, before collectively organized religious factions had been bred, small groups of folks revered and feared those things least understood: the stars, the skies, lightning and thunder, and their "release" from these fears was the predication that all of this was divinely controlled. Hence, the development of a "crutch", a psychological support system, to allow safe passage through the mentally-overwhelming crises of everyday life.

Now, today's societies have reached the point where each faction's beliefs are thought to be supreme, with all others the work of some ultimate evil. Do *I *believe in God? That is no one's business but my own. Should *you *believe in God? Ditto.

Kinda like, "don't ask, don't tell". ain't it?    imp


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## Linda (Jan 11, 2016)

Thanks for sharing our story imp.  I think a lot of people feel like you do.  I have told before on here (and hey, this isn't a "rag"  about spending 35 years in a church that demanded about everything from us.  We were allowed to drink alcohol though ---- if we had any $ left after giving 3 tithes to the church.  Now the 3rd tithe was only every 3 years and we got the 7th year off.  Each tithe was 10 % before taxes.  They used fear to keep people around.  My first son in law attended one of the churche's 3 colleges and when he was a senior he (in groups of 12) was invited to eat at the table of the founder of the church.  They drank from GOLD goblets and used gold forks and knifes.  He wanted the young people to realize what a comfortable beautiful life was in store for them in God's kingdom.  Eating at his table was just a small taste of it.  Later in his divorce his young wife got the gold goblets.  I won't say anymore, every time I do I make at lest one or two people on this forum mad.


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## Shalimar (Jan 11, 2016)

Linda, I don't understand why anyone would be angry with you over your experiences with that church.


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## Cookie (Jan 12, 2016)

Linda, I can relate to your story --- and I've always been of the opinion that religion is a business - some bigger churches/religions are big big business raking in plenty of dough -- that also goes for small sects and cults as well as smaller offshoots of mainstream religions -- money is the common denominator.  Along with big tobacco, big drugs, big oil, big other stuff, I would include big religion.


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## Karen99 (Jan 12, 2016)

Religion wasn't an issue. I was raised Christian and was fine with it.  I really enjoyed Sunday School as a kid..had very sweet teachers.  One even made us a doll cake on our birthday..another gave us a little plate with the Lords Prayer if we memorized it. I was treated well and there was no hypocrisy in my family..I think that was good..lol. My dad said grace each meal..the same one..but it was always sincere.  I learned the golden rule.  I was never forced to do anything. I kind of broke with organized religion when I was a teenager.  My parents were ok with it.  I was taught God loves us and we should love each other.  

I think everyone has to find their own way with this..and I do NOT tolerate people trying to convert me, etc.  I believe in separation of church and state.  I am very respectful of other people's choices in this matter.  Nothing is perfect..so I get why people get fed up with organized religion.  However..I've seen atheists just as smug and condescending as a self righteous Christian. Humans have a real problem accepting that other people may not agree with them...especially regarding whatever they decide "matters" in life.


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## Bluecheese50 (Jan 12, 2016)

Karen99 said:


> Religion wasn't an issue. I was raised Christian and was fine with it.  I really enjoyed Sunday School as a kid..had very sweet teachers.  One even made us a doll cake on our birthday..another gave us a little plate with the Lords Prayer if we memorized it. I was treated well and there was no hypocrisy in my family..I think that was good..lol. My dad said grace each meal..the same one..but it was always sincere.  I learned the golden rule.  I was never forced to do anything. I kind of broke with organized religion when I was a teenager.  My parents were ok with it.  I was taught God loves us and we should love each other.
> 
> I think everyone has to find their own way with this..and I do NOT tolerate people trying to convert me, etc.  I believe in separation of church and state.  I am very respectful of other people's choices in this matter.  Nothing is perfect..so I get why people get fed up with organized religion.  However..I've seen atheists just as smug and condescending as a self righteous Christian. Humans have a real problem accepting that other people may not agree with them...especially regarding whatever they decide "matters" in life.



Having read the Bible many times over the years, I cannot see anything loving about the deeds attributed to the Biblical deity, it comes over as a psychopath. In fact if it exists and is as evil as portrayed, humans should be using their ingenuity to exterminate it, imo.


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## Shalimar (Jan 12, 2016)

I am not Christian, but I do not believe Jesus was evil.


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## Ralphy1 (Jan 12, 2016)

As a child I was sent to a Congreationalist Sunday school,.  But the teachings didn't seem to be in keeping with what was happening in a world at war, so the dime that I was supposed to give went to buying a funny book later...


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## Bluecheese50 (Jan 12, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> I am not Christian, but I do not believe Jesus was evil.



I don't think Jesus was evil either, just another human with faults and failing like the rest of us. I certainly don't think he was any kind of god, or the offspring of one.


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## Don M. (Jan 12, 2016)

If a person pays heed to some of these churches and their teachings, it seems that Only their particular religion is correct, and everyone else is doomed.  I've seen the Notre Dame in Paris, the Vatican in Rome, and numerous other Historical religious sites...and I find more of "God" in a blade of grass, than all of these opulent man made "symbols".  As I grew older, and began to observe a lot of the people in church, I became aware of a number of them who patted each other on the back on Sunday, than stabbed each other in the back on Monday.  

We live in an area with a lot of Mennonites and Amish, and those people are about the only ones I've seen who try to practice what they preach.


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## AprilT (Jan 12, 2016)

Linda said:


> Thanks for sharing our story imp.  I think a lot of people feel like you do.  I have told before on here (and hey, this isn't a "rag"  about spending 35 years in a church that demanded about everything from us.  We were allowed to drink alcohol though ---- if we had any $ left after giving 3 tithes to the church.  Now the 3rd tithe was only every 3 years and we got the 7th year off.  Each tithe was 10 % before taxes.  They used fear to keep people around.  My first son in law attended one of the churche's 3 colleges and when he was a senior he (in groups of 12) was invited to eat at the table of the founder of the church.  They drank from GOLD goblets and used gold forks and knifes.  He wanted the young people to realize what a comfortable beautiful life was in store for them in God's kingdom.  Eating at his table was just a small taste of it.  Later in his divorce his young wife got the gold goblets.  I won't say anymore, every time I do I make at lest one or two people on this forum mad.



Linda, if what you speak is your truth as it happened to you, speak it loud as you wish and pay anyone who doesn't like it no mind.  There has been great harm to people under the guise of some religious doctrines and for those people, who managed to free themselves from those who used religion in such a way, they deserve to be called out so speak on, you may just help someone else in the process.   

I don't believe in any deities or religious doctrines, but, I do like some of the teachings of how one treats their fellow earth inhabitants to benefit all for a cohesive existence.


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## Sunny (Jan 12, 2016)

Although I was lucky enough to be spared a fundamentalist upbringing, I have come to the conclusion that religion is responsible for probably about 90% of the world's troubles. Just imagine how much happier and more peaceful the world would be with no religion; John Lennon was right!


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## jujube (Jan 12, 2016)




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## Stormy (Jan 12, 2016)

I still pray sometimes but I never go to church anymore


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## Denise1952 (Jan 12, 2016)

Bluecheese50 said:


> As a child I had to attend a Pentecostal church with my parents, where Sunday after Sunday the preachers screamed, 'You must be 'saved' or burn in hell'! My sadistic paternal grandmother, who had beaten religion into her six kids yelling, 'spare the rod and spoil the child', had taken great pleasure in describing the tortures awaiting a naughty little girl like me! I had terrible nightmares throughout my childhood. I did the 'saved' bit when I was eleven as I was scared of going to hell, however by the time I married at nineteen, the doubts were too overwhelming and I lost my faith, for which I was grateful. My husband had done the 'saved' bit too as a child, but he lost his faith after he went to university and studied science and theology.
> 
> When our birth daughters came a long we were determined that they should make up their own minds about religion, which they did, all three are Christians, the eldest an Anglican Priest. However, thank goodness they aren't Biblical literalists, and are moderate in their beliefs.
> 
> I think threatening people with hell if they don't convert is emotional abuse and should be illegal, as there is not the slightest shred of evidence any deity exists. I am of the opinion all religions are human creations.



This is child abuse  I'm so sorry that happened to you BC.  I have a terrible time with "believing" in God, so I stay away from religion.  I'd like to know there is a better place that awaits us when we die, but I just don't know.  When I am down, and feeling broken, I do pray, but it's always in hopes a "loving" god hears me, and helps me. denise


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## Shalimar (Jan 12, 2016)

Denise, I don't have the answers re a creator. I do believe that we humans can help each other. Reaching out is a good thing. Most of us need a candle in the dark from time to time, a connection to remind us that we matter and are not alone. Everybody is broken in some way.


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## Shalimar (Jan 12, 2016)

Growing up, my experience with the United Church was benign, although I never felt any spiritual presence. My experience with the monsters who used bizarre religious rituals to further their sick perversions, was unspeakable. If there was a God, I 

hated him for decades. No longer do I blame any spiritual presence for the actions of evil men and women. People can pervert anything in order to fulfil their obsessive desires.


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## Greeneyes (Jan 12, 2016)

Bluecheese50 said:


> As a child I had to attend a Pentecostal church with my parents, where Sunday after Sunday the preachers screamed, 'You must be 'saved' or burn in hell'! My sadistic paternal grandmother, who had beaten religion into her six kids yelling, 'spare the rod and spoil the child', had taken great pleasure in describing the tortures awaiting a naughty little girl like me! I had terrible nightmares throughout my childhood. I did the 'saved' bit when I was eleven as I was scared of going to hell, however by the time I married at nineteen, the doubts were too overwhelming and I lost my faith, for which I was grateful. My husband had done the 'saved' bit too as a child, but he lost his faith after he went to university and studied science and theology.
> 
> When our birth daughters came a long we were determined that they should make up their own minds about religion, which they did, all three are Christians, the eldest an Anglican Priest. However, thank goodness they aren't Biblical literalists, and are moderate in their beliefs.
> 
> I think threatening people with hell if they don't convert is emotional abuse and should be illegal, as there is not the slightest shred of evidence any deity exists. I am of the opinion all religions are human creations.



It ruined mine too, I am a former JW and it was hard to over come their teachings. But I survived and let the past go, just like other crazy/weird stuff from my past! lol


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## Karen99 (Jan 12, 2016)

Bluecheese50 said:


> Having read the Bible many times over the years, I cannot see anything loving about the deeds attributed to the Biblical deity, it comes over as a psychopath. In fact if it exists and is as evil as portrayed, humans should be using their ingenuity to exterminate it, imo.



Treat people like you want to be treated may sound simplistic...but I wish people in general would do that.  I left organized religion long ago  but having said that...i didn't have to walk far to find people who think they are right about everything...who judge others who don't agree with them on ANY topic and who are big non-Christian hypocrites..lol.  They talk about being kind..but it's all talk..they talk about helping the poor but do nothing...they talk about compassion but attack anyone who does something they don't approve of...  Jesus taught against that.. and outraged the self-important hypocrites of His day..and ran out the money changers in the temple....and advised us to bear one another's burdens.  

Maybe Jesus was just a good man...many agree on that....but he was a rebel in his day and went against the Pharisee in favor of loving and helping others..feeding multitudes...doing good works...showing kindness and humility.  Values like Love thy neighbor is not the thought of a psycho. If your brother asks you for bread..do you hand him a stone?  If someone is grieving do you try to comfort them?  I believe in these things.  I also understand that other faiths and philosophies teach these things too and good on them.  

Thats all all I have to say about it Bluecheese.  I'm sorry your family adhered to some fanatical views and ruined your childhood.  I've been criticized for having extremely liberal views regarding Christianity but  I've expressed here what I believe and I would not be okay with people forcing any beliefs on anyone..Christian or otherwise.


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## Gail.S (Jan 12, 2016)

I was raised in a small Southern county where everyone went to church and my family picked the Methodist one to attend. By age twelve I began to doubt religion but went along with the rest of my family to services and did not tell anyone of my doubts. Two marriages and two kids later I was still attending the same church in sporadic bursts, under the assumption that my kids needed it. Being able to finally admit my doubts about religion didn't happen until one day when my teenage son asked me why we had to attend church.

 This made the nephew whom I had raised from his eleventh year to chime in with the fact that he had recently decided he was atheist. After much thought, and since I had always kind of believed in reincarnation as the only fair way for a soul to have a shot at redemption, I decided to call myself a Buddhist. My son also declared himself Buddhist. It took me a few more years to admit to everyone, including myself, that I was no better at being Buddhist than I was at being Christian. I paid lip service to both at various times but never put much effort into researching or actively practicing either. 

Now I just tell people I'm not religious and let them choose their own label for me. Being nonreligious in this extremely church obsessed location isn't easy, and I'm lucky if a whole day passes without being reminded I'm in the wrong geographical location to easily pull it off.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 12, 2016)

Bluecheese50 said:


> Having read the Bible many times over the years, I cannot see anything loving about the deeds attributed to the Biblical deity, it comes over as a psychopath. In fact if it exists and is as evil as portrayed, humans should be using their ingenuity to exterminate it, imo.



Just stumbled across this article and thought it was appropriate for this discussion, how the bible condones atrocious acts of terror.  More here. 



> *1. In the Bible God controls humans by raining down death, destruction and terror on those who defy or anger him.
> 
> *_I kill ... I wound ... I will make mine arrows drunk with blood and my sword shall devour flesh._ So says Yahweh in Deuteronomy 32:39-42, and this is no idle threat. You’ve heard the story of Noah’s flood, and about the fire God rains down on Sodom and Gomorrah, and about the 12 plagues of Egypt, but did you know that in the Bible God kills 158 times? The full list can be found in the Steve Wells book, _Drunk With Blood._
> 
> ...


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## Bluecheese50 (Jan 13, 2016)

The deity featured in the Bible is a total psycho, if it exists!


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## Ruth n Jersey (Jan 13, 2016)

When I decided I wanted to be a part of this forum I did so because I had a choice of topics to choose from. Religious and political topics usually do not interest me. . Something made me click on this post. I'm so glad I did. I have been saying, much to the disdain of some family members,exactly what you have posted here. Especially  the comment about the perspective of the person at the Pulpit. Nice to know I'm not alone in my thinking. Your last statement says it all.


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## imp (Jan 13, 2016)

What precisely is being said here, by all this? That the whole lot of us be considered heathen by the religious standards established by the various religious factions?   imp


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## tnthomas (Jan 13, 2016)

Even though my grandfather was a Lutheran minister, and regular exposure to Christian thought was the norm while growing up, there was no "brime-stoning" or brow-beating. 
 I am grateful that the "baby" wasn't "thrown out with the bathwater", meaning that the message of Christ Jesus was not adulterated or overshadowed by man-made rituals and practices.


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## NancyNGA (Jan 13, 2016)

I had a totally different perspective growing up:  My family never went to church. They were non-believers before I was born. And I've never found a reason to change. 

Religion, or the lack of it, certainly didn't ruin my life.  It was a little tricky trying to make friends in public school, but maybe that was only in my mind.   I used to change the subject, or excuse myself, from conversations that started heading toward religion, because as far as I could tell our family was the *only* one in the whole world that didn't go to church. Something must be wrong with us, but I could never figure out what it was.  I still remember where I was sitting the day our high school chemistry teacher, Mr. Lucas, went around the room and made us all say out loud what church we went to.  

It was like "coming out of the closet" after high school, when I found out I wasn't alone.  But I'm still never the first one to bring up the subject of religion with anyone, and would *never* try to argue with anyone about their religious beliefs. 

So it makes no difference to me if a person goes to church or not, or believes in a god, or not. That doesn't mean I don't have any values. I value honesty, fairness, choosing to do the right thing even when it hurts you, to name some things offhand.   I can't tolerate prejudice.  By that I mean a deep conviction that some groups of people are "_greater than_" and some are "_less than_," based on things they cannot change, or because of the bad behavior of a few individuals.   My parents gave me those values since almost before I can remember, and I thank  them for that.  

Maybe growing up trying to fit in even helped me get along with people as an adult.  On the other hand, I don't seem to be doing a very good job of it.  I still prefer to have just one really good friend.

I've been thinking about this thread a lot.  Like Linda, I might make some good people upset with me by posting this.  I hope not.  But I've grown so weary of trying to get along, just like I did when I was in public school.


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## Warrigal (Jan 13, 2016)

Nancy, I cannot imagine why anyone would be upset by anything that you have posted.

If you were to say these things to Jesus should he appear before you I'm pretty sure that he would affirm you and also add a challenge that would stretch you and challenge you to go just a little further down this path.


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## Bluecheese50 (Jan 14, 2016)

NancyNGA said:


> I had a totally different perspective growing up:  My family never went to church. They were non-believers before I was born. And I've never found a reason to change.
> 
> Religion, or the lack of it, certainly didn't ruin my life.  It was a little tricky trying to make friends in public school, but maybe that was only in my mind.   I used to change the subject, or excuse myself, from conversations that started heading toward religion, because as far as I could tell our family was the *only* one in the whole world that didn't go to church. Something must be wrong with us, but I could never figure out what it was.  I still remember where I was sitting the day our high school chemistry teacher, Mr. Lucas, went around the room and made us all say out loud what church we went to.
> 
> ...




You sound like one of the good guys where religion is concerned, like my own three daughters.


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## Karen99 (Jan 14, 2016)

This is a very interesting thread actually.  I was touched by your post, Nancy.  I grew up in California and I don't remember religion ever being an issue in school.  I obviously didn't go to a parochial school.  I do remember remember a lot of diversity...and none of it was a problem.  I always saw it as a personal and private matter.  i was raised to respect differences.  I think religious fanatics are scary.  I also think a lot of things get blamed on "religion" that are simply human failings and pathology.  People fall prey to a lot of cults and such..some religious based..some philosophical.  

This discussion is obviously not a simple one..but I didn't see it as a debate on religion exactly..just our experience with it growing up and how it impacted us and our life.  in my mind it all comes down to love..and being loving and being loved..and if you got that from your parents I think their religion, faith, beliefs including being atheist or agnostic don't  matter. Sometimes parents can serve as examples of what you don't want to be when you grow up..but they are just human.  

I can can tell you right now I don't pick my friends based on their religion or beliefs.  People are just people no matter what faith or philosophy they possess.  If we can just enjoy and respect each other..that's all that matters.  I realize this is the Internet and not face to face interaction. I think people do and say things here they would never do or say in real life....but I'm sorry when people get downright mean, hateful and insulting ..just because they can.  When religion and politics are discussed I think it takes a lot of tolerance and I do think it's possible to say hey..let's agree to disagree..it's all good.


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