# Nasa- collapse of civilisation coming



## Fern (Mar 16, 2014)

What are your thoughts on this, could it possibly happen over time, ?I do believe it's a distinct possibility.


> Modern civilisation is heading for collapse within a matter of  decades because of growing economic instability and pressure on the  planet's resources, according to a scientific study funded by Nasa.
> Using  theoretical models to predict what will happen to the industrialised  world over the course of the next century or so, mathematicians found  that even with conservative estimates things started to go very badly,  very quickly.
> Referring to the past collapses of often very  sophisticated civilisations - the Roman, Han and Gupta Empires for  example - the study noted that the elite of society have often pushed  for a "business as usual" approach to warnings of disaster until it is  too late.
> In the report based on his "Human And Nature Dynamical"  (Handy) model, the applied mathematician Safa Motesharri wrote: "the  process of rise-and-collapse is actually a recurrent cycle found  throughout history".
> ...


NZHerald


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## SifuPhil (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm not sure I understand why NASA would fund a socio-economic study, unless they have spare change laying around from the termination of the shuttle flights. 

In any case, people - even "experts" such as these - have been predicting the Downfall of Mankind since the beginning. Claiming that it will happen within mere decades is I believe hubris, and while certain segments of certain societies may experience hard times I strongly doubt that the entire world is going to crash.

He even alludes to it in the paper - 



> In the report based on his "Human And Nature Dynamical"  (Handy) model,  the applied mathematician Safa Motesharri wrote: "the  process of  rise-and-collapse is actually *a recurrent cycle found  throughout  history*".



We may be living in a very different society than we are now - that's a given, and has been demonstrated repeatedly throughout the ages. But total destruction?


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## That Guy (Mar 16, 2014)

When I came home from Vietnam in 1970 was convinced of just this.  Surprised it's taken so long . . .  

My dad would often refer to the rise and fall of the Romans when talking about our society.  "Rise and fall," he would say.  Rise and fall.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 16, 2014)

Everything has its time in the sun, and its end time.

That's why, to me, this paper is the equivalent of saying 1+1=2.


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## Warrigal (Mar 16, 2014)

I think they must mean the collapse of Western Civilisation.
No empire or hegemony lasts forever.
There is always a replacement waiting in the wings.


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## rkunsaw (Mar 17, 2014)

> The day society presses a light switch and nothing happens is the day we go back to the middle ages? The richest man in the world then will be the man who grows garden vegetables



You're partly right justsayin, but although we grow most of the vegetables we eat and there is game in the woods and fish in the lake our world will still be completely changed. Our produce is canned on an electric stove or stored in an electric freezer. When the electricity goes off it will affect us all profoundly.


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## Justme (Mar 17, 2014)

Every 'empire' has its day, like the British Empire, which was never to our country's credit, imo!


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2014)

Fern said:


> What are your thoughts on this, could it possibly happen over time, ?I do believe it's a distinct possibility.
> 
> NZHerald



I think unless a lot of things change, it's inevitable that we will (man/woman) will at the least, make the place unlivable, won't sustain life.  People won't get together on things, I mean there's always someone that will keep using up without putting back.  It's like the person that empties toilet paper roll but won't put a new one up.  Either someone else has to, or nothing for the next person.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 17, 2014)

Diwundrin said:


> ... Phil, I can't find where it said anything about total destruction, just the collapse of a specific form of civilization.  The world carried on without the Romans and it will carry on without Wall St, and the IMF, it will only be devastating to those of us used to living la dolce vita.



Here - first line of the quote - 



> Modern civilisation is heading for collapse ...



Absent any qualifiers I took it to mean civilization as a whole. If they're not dressing up as The Four Horsemen for Halloween I believe they might want to narrow down their doom-saying ... 

... or is that the entire purpose of this paper - to rouse the rabble?


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## That Guy (Mar 17, 2014)




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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2014)

man that's creepy lookin but "dead" on, pun intended


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## Knightofalbion (Mar 17, 2014)

No civilization lasts forever and Western civilization will be no different in that respect. With our abuse of Mother Earth and the Animal Kingdom, and our own kind, you can't say we haven't asked for it....

But mankind will survive and a better world will come to pass.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2014)

Knightofalbion said:


> No civilization lasts forever and Western civilization will be no different in that respect. With our abuse of Mother Earth and the Animal Kingdom, and our own kind, you can't say we haven't asked for it....
> 
> But mankind will survive and a better world will come to pass.



I agree that we have asked for it, then everyone crying and asking why, why, why.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2014)

Diwundrin said:


> Well, well  well... I see this thread must have been 'too serious' for some to handle, we seem to have lost some combatants in action.
> 
> Forget about this forum being 'international', it's becoming less so every day.



I can understand folks not wanting to be in "combat" on this forum but I don't get the international thing?  I think this thread has a great variety of peeps from all over the world.  Well, I guess we are missing quite a few countries since there's 196 (yep, I googled:shame.  I think we have a pretty good variety of threads.  I know I'm probably missing something..wait for it..


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## SifuPhil (Mar 17, 2014)

Diwundrin said:


> Well, well  well... I see this thread must have been 'too serious' for some to handle, we seem to have lost some combatants in action.
> 
> Forget about this forum being 'international', it's becoming less so every day.



Maybe their civilizations collapsed ...


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Maybe their civilizations collapsed ...


:lofl:I love the way your brain works, most of the time, way to stay on topic!


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## SifuPhil (Mar 17, 2014)

nwlady said:


> :lofl:I love the way your brain works, most of the time, way to stay on topic!



I'm trying ... wouldn't want to be accused of being a civilization-crasher ...


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## drifter (Mar 17, 2014)

Hogwash! We can cuss and discuss the end of civilization or life as we know it but we're just whistling Dixie. That is to say, we don't know what we're talking about. The best of us and our governments can't find a missing airplane, let alone know when or how or if this civilization might end. The only thing for certain, is that it's not likely, most of us on this forum won't live forever, but are living in the last days, our last days.


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## Fern (Mar 17, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Maybe their civilizations collapsed ...


Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2014)

drifter said:


> Hogwash! We can cuss and discuss the end of civilization or life as we know it but we're just whistling Dixie. That is to say, we don't know what we're talking about. The best of us and our governments can't find a missing airplane, let alone know when or how or if this civilization might end. The only thing for certain, is that it's not likely, most of us on this forum won't live forever, but are living in the last days, our last days.



I agree, if I have to pick door #1, 2, or 3, your door is the best answer Drifter, in my opinion.


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## Fern (Mar 17, 2014)

> Originally Posted by *drifter*
> 
> Hogwash! We can cuss and discuss the end of  civilization or life as we know it but we're just whistling Dixie. That  is to say, we don't know what we're talking about. The best of us and  our governments can't find a missing airplane, let alone know when or  how or if this civilization might end. The only thing for certain, is  that it's not likely, most of us on this forum won't live forever, but  are living in the last days, our last days.


That's like putting your head in the sand. The way medical science has progressed over the years, keeping people alive for far more than their allotted 3 score & ten, if we're lucky, the planet must become over inhabited not the least to say food becoming far more scarce than what it is to-day.


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## drifter (Mar 17, 2014)

Survival of the fittest will have to kick in; we'll have to change priorities. Maybe sacrifice all adults over the age of 87 to the god of war, praying some great battle will reduce our population so we have adequate space or food or drinking water. Eliminate some users. No sweat.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 17, 2014)

Fern said:


> Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.



Ah - another critic ...


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2014)

drifter said:


> Survival of the fittest will have to kick in; we'll have to change priorities. Maybe sacrifice all adults over the age of 87 to the god of war, praying some great battle will reduce our population so we have adequate space or food or drinking water. Eliminate some users. No sweat.



You been watchin Soylent Green again?? You know how the movie gets you started:danger:


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## Denise1952 (Mar 17, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Ah - another critic ...



for me your wit is a breath of fresh air.  The day there is no humor, sarcastic or otherwise, is the day I hope I'm dead and in the dirt.  I think there needs to be balance for me, a little heavy, duty seriousness, and a little laughter.  

Sarcastic = marked by or given to using irony in order to mock or convey contempt (according to Merriam Webster).  I've known you awhile now Phil, and I do not believe you have a mocking  or contemptible attitude toward anyone.  You just like to lighten things up, and you do, you have great humor, that's what I think Denise


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## lonelynorthwind (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm not too worried about civilization collapse.  Whether we finish killing this planet with radiation, finish filling the land, water & skies with poison or an asteroid hits, not a thing any one of us can do to change it;  nobody's gettin' outta here alive anyway.  Best to take care of you and yours,  not to worry and live every day like it's your last.  After all, Time is not of the essence.  Time is the essence.


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## Warrigal (Mar 17, 2014)

lonelynorthwind said:


> Time is not of the essence.  Time is the essence.



I like this quote too

"Time is the furnace in which we burn."

It's true for us personally, for our version of civilisation, for the solar system and for the cosmos in general.
It puts all our issues into perspective. Everything is trivial yet every thing is also important. Paradox.


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## RCynic (Mar 18, 2014)

It just sounds to me that a lot more people will simply join those at the bottom that are already dying of starvation and disease. There will be no collapse for them, just more of the same, but more company.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 18, 2014)

RCynic said:


> It just sounds to me that a lot more people will simply join those at the bottom that are already dying of starvation and disease. There will be no collapse for them, just more of the same, but more company.



Excellent point, and this could very well be it.


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## Jackie22 (Mar 18, 2014)

drifter said:


> Hogwash! We can cuss and discuss the end of civilization or life as we know it but we're just whistling Dixie. That is to say, we don't know what we're talking about. The best of us and our governments can't find a missing airplane, let alone know when or how or if this civilization might end. The only thing for certain, is that it's not likely, most of us on this forum won't live forever, but are living in the last days, our last days.



Lol...Hogwash...for sure.


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## That Guy (Mar 18, 2014)

Fern said:


> Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.



But, it's still funny.


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## That Guy (Mar 18, 2014)

May I recommend a great book?  "Earth Abides" by George Stewart.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 18, 2014)

That Guy said:


> But, it's still funny.



You know what's _really_ funny? 

That "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" is a quote attributed to Oscar Wilde, a man who was convicted of indecent acts with Lord "Bosie" Douglas, with whom he had lived for years. 

Ouch, those pansy slaps tickle!


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## Meanderer (May 24, 2014)

Yeah, right!


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## Davey Jones (May 26, 2014)

I dont know why any of us on this forum are worried about this collapse,since most of us are not to be here to watch all the fireworks.


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## Denise1952 (May 26, 2014)

I agree with it pretty much.  The only thing I would change in the article would be "the study noted that the elite of society have often pushed  for a  "business as usual" approach to warnings of disaster until it is  too  late" part.  I don't think it is only the elite, I think most people, including the home-less/poor/ignorant have a "go on like usual" approach.  I think that another huge reason things will come crashing down is the self-centeredness of people.  I mean if everyone were 100% honest, I believe we would all have to admit that "number one" is most important.  So if everyone were like Scrooge "was" in the story, then no one would be working for the benefit of anyone else.  That's just how I see it.  It seems to me that it's when people pull together, that is when we see things happen.  And hopefully they are pulling together for good, not bad.


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