# Mother Of 12  House Burned Down



## fmdog44 (Dec 23, 2020)

She is a single mother of 12 living in Houston but is from Louisiana. 
HARRIS COUNTY, Texas — A mother and several children lost their home near Jersey Village in an early-morning fire, firefighters said.
The Cy-Fair Fire Department responded to the 6400 block of Pinewood Trace around 4 a.m. Wednesday. They found heavy flames shooting from the garage area of the home. The fire spread to the rest of the home’s roof.
The Louisiana native said they moved from Baton Rouge to the Houston-area in 2017 to get away from an abusive relationship. Now, Moldies said it hurts to start over. “I’m crying because we don’t have nothing,” she said. “And then we’re not really from here so I’m like, ‘Oh my God! What are we going to do? Where are we going to go?’ Then I said, ‘I don’t care. I’ll sleep in my car,’ because I got my kids, ya’ll. And they still all with me. ”The family plans to stay at a friend’s house until they can figure out where to go from there.Arizpe said Harris County Fire Marshal Office investigators are still working to determine the cause of the fire, but is believed to have started in the garage.
A GoFundMe account has been set up for the family. 

So she and her twelve children are now homeless. No insurance. I don't get it.


----------



## CarolfromTX (Dec 23, 2020)

12 kids??? And a single parent. There’s some bad decision making there.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Dec 23, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> She is a single mother of 12 living in Houston but is from Louisiana.
> HARRIS COUNTY, Texas — A mother and several children lost their home near Jersey Village in an early-morning fire, firefighters said.
> The Cy-Fair Fire Department responded to the 6400 block of Pinewood Trace around 4 a.m. Wednesday. They found heavy flames shooting from the garage area of the home. The fire spread to the rest of the home’s roof.
> The Louisiana native said they moved from Baton Rouge to the Houston-area in 2017 to get away from an abusive relationship. Now, Moldies said it hurts to start over. “I’m crying because we don’t have nothing,” she said. “And then we’re not really from here so I’m like, ‘Oh my God! What are we going to do? Where are we going to go?’ Then I said, ‘I don’t care. I’ll sleep in my car,’ because I got my kids, ya’ll. And they still all with me. ”The family plans to stay at a friend’s house until they can figure out where to go from there.Arizpe said Harris County Fire Marshal Office investigators are still working to determine the cause of the fire, but is believed to have started in the garage.
> ...


A sad state of affairs, but no insurance? What in the world?

Here in Canada, in order to own a home and carry no insurance, ones home title must be free and clear (zero owing).

Even if the home was bought and paid for, I'm lost as to understand why no insurance coverage applied to the home.


----------



## BlissfullyUnawareCanadian (Dec 23, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> 12 kids??? And a single parent. There’s some bad decision making there.


The article said she moved to escape an abusive relationship. As a former police service civilian who worked with abused women I find your comment heartbreakingly judgemental.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> A sad state of affairs, but no insurance? What in the world?
> 
> Here in Canada, in order to own a home and carry no insurance, ones home title must be free and clear (zero owing).
> 
> Even if the home was bought and paid for, I'm lost as to understand why no insurance coverage applied to the home.


They probably couldn't afford insurance.  She probably had to choose between the insurance and keeping her children fed.  People living in poverty frequently have to make very hard choices that those of us not in their shoes or who have never been in their shoes might find it hard to understand.   AND, if she had chosen insurance over food, that would have been neglect/abuse of her children and the authorities could have swooped in and removed them -- not to mention that they would have suffered from being hungry.  She would have been screwed whichever she chose.  

I certainly don't judge her for the choice she made.  When I was working, we did work _pro bono_ for some very poor people who were living in appalling circumstances, just trying to do the best they could with what little they had.


----------



## CarolfromTX (Dec 24, 2020)

BlissfullyUnawareCanadian said:


> The article said she moved to escape an abusive relationship. As a former police service civilian who worked with abused women I find your comment heartbreakingly judgemental.



Judgmental? Yes, it is. But she apparently stayed in the relationship long enough to have 12 children, which is a lot of mouths to feed and a lot of little bodies to clothe. That's bad decision making.  Or perhaps a series of relationships resulted in 12 children. Also bad decision making. I hope she can find help and learn to make better decisions. The choices you make determine the life you lead.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Dec 24, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> They probably couldn't afford insurance.  She probably had to choose between the insurance and keeping her children fed.  People living in poverty frequently have to make very hard choices that those of us not in their shoes or who have never been in their shoes might find it hard to understand.   AND, if she had chosen insurance over food, that would have been neglect/abuse of her children and the authorities could have swooped in and removed them -- not to mention that they would have suffered from being hungry.  She would have been screwed whichever she chose.
> 
> I certainly don't judge her for the choice she made.  When I was working, we did work _pro bono_ for some very poor people who were living in appalling circumstances, just trying to do the best they could with what little they had.


I'm not going to be so quick to buy into all that you posted, Butter, even though you voice a number of valid points that could apply to a situation as this.

The homes in the neighbourhood of the 6400 block of Pinewood Trace, look to be above average, which brings me to my first point of contention. How does a single mother of 12 children afford a home in the 6400 block of Pinewood Trace?

My next point of contention, if the single mother of 12 (in fact) can and was affording to pay the mortgage on her home situated in the 6400 block of Pinewood Trace, then surely if she was struggling to keep afloat financially, and knowing that 12 children were under the roof of such home, one would think that family or friends would step in and help the mother cover the cost of insurance, even if it was monthly.

I find it hard to believe that a financial institution (any financial institution) would write a mortgage to a buyer without conditions of insurance attached to such a dwelling, and if by chance insurance requirements in the USofA mirror the same in Canada, where homeowners holding a free and clear title on the property can wave any all insurance on such, then the mother had plenty of equity to tap into in order to ensure her home was insured accordingly.

The GoFundMe account has now bypassed the $30,000 mark, which I'm certain will not even begin to cover replacing the fire-ravaged home with a new home.

There's a whole lot not adding up with this story.


----------



## Sunny (Dec 24, 2020)

The family plans to stay at "a friend's house?"  They have a friend with enough room to take in 13 people?


----------



## Rosemarie (Dec 24, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> 12 kids??? And a single parent. There’s some bad decision making there.


Women don't always have a choice about having children. Some men think keeping a woman pregnant stops her getting into mischief!


----------



## Knight (Dec 24, 2020)

The elephant in the room. 

How does she afford to feed, clothe, house, pay for health care for herself & 12 children? No mention of a job & the cost of child care while she works. Only real info is she moved to get away from an abusive relationship. 

How did she manage? Maybe the millions suffering due to the covid -19 pandemic that will lose all they worked for could benefit from how this woman managed to do it.


----------



## Irwin (Dec 24, 2020)

They seemed to be fairly well off... living in an upper middle-class neighborhood and a nice, huge house. I wonder what she did for a living.


----------



## debodun (Dec 24, 2020)

There's always seems to be a story like this at Christmas. She's not the only one having difficulties.


----------



## JustBonee (Dec 24, 2020)

Irwin said:


> They seemed to be fairly well off... living in an upper middle-class neighborhood and a nice, huge house. I wonder what she did for a living.









It doesn't add up.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Dec 24, 2020)

debodun said:


> There's always seems to be a story like this at Christmas. She's not the only one having difficulties.


The whole GoFundMe thing doesn't sit well with me, never has.

Seems that GoFundMe has become the new-wave go-to solution to most everyone's problems.


----------



## raybar (Dec 24, 2020)

Zillow.com currently (24 Dec 2020) shows most of the houses on Pinewood Trace Lane at $300,000 to $400,000, with one at $291,000 and several a bit over $400,000. By Los Angeles standards, that's extremely economical.


----------



## JustBonee (Dec 24, 2020)

raybar said:


> Zillow.com currently (24 Dec 2020) shows most of the houses on Pinewood Trace Lane at $300,000 to $400,000, with one at $291,000 and several a bit over $400,000. By Los Angeles standards, that's extremely economical.


Not the case in Houston...   That's an expensive home here.


----------



## CarolfromTX (Dec 24, 2020)

This doesn’t pass the smell test. Sorry. More fake news?


----------



## Sunny (Dec 24, 2020)

Certainly does sound fishy, for all the reasons stated above. There may be more to the story than what we know.

Deb, not only at Xmas time. There was a similar house fire that left a family of 12 homeless in St. Louis in September.  Google it.


----------



## win231 (Dec 24, 2020)

BlissfullyUnawareCanadian said:


> The article said she moved to escape an abusive relationship. As a former police service civilian who worked with abused women I find your comment heartbreakingly judgemental.





CarolfromTX said:


> 12 kids??? And a single parent. There’s some bad decision making there.


Makes ya wonder how "Abusive" he was.
That many pregnancies take lots of...........uh....activity.


----------



## AnnieA (Dec 24, 2020)

BlissfullyUnawareCanadian said:


> The article said she moved to escape an abusive relationship. As a former police service civilian who worked with abused women I find your comment heartbreakingly judgemental.



Bringing twelve children into an abusive environment is in itself abuse.  She's perpetrated it and, statistically, some of her children are likely to as well.

.


----------



## win231 (Dec 24, 2020)

Reminds me of those panhandlers with their small children.
They load up their kids & drive home at the end of their shifts - in a $50,000.00 SUV.


----------



## StarSong (Dec 24, 2020)

The story doesn't say that she owned the house.  Since she didn't have insurance she was probably renting.


----------



## Giantsfan1954 (Dec 24, 2020)

Remember octomom????


----------



## fmdog44 (Dec 24, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> They probably couldn't afford insurance.  She probably had to choose between the insurance and keeping her children fed.  People living in poverty frequently have to make very hard choices that those of us not in their shoes or who have never been in their shoes might find it hard to understand.   AND, if she had chosen insurance over food, that would have been neglect/abuse of her children and the authorities could have swooped in and removed them -- not to mention that they would have suffered from being hungry.  She would have been screwed whichever she chose.
> 
> I certainly don't judge her for the choice she made.  When I was working, we did work _pro bono_ for some very poor people who were living in appalling circumstances, just trying to do the best they could with what little they had.


Or she could keep her legs closed.


----------



## fmdog44 (Dec 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> Reminds me of those panhandlers with their small children.
> They load up their kids & drive home at the end of their shifts - in a $50,000.00 SUV.


I notice the BMW's and new SUVs lined up for free food handouts every day.


----------



## Ronni (Dec 24, 2020)

Y’know, abuse isn’t just physical. It can be ******, mental, financial, emotional, psychological. 

I have 5 children. Do you judge me for having had that many children with an abuser before I found the courage to leave?  

As an abuse survivor, I find some of these comments shockingly judgmental and callous. The kindest thing I can say is that you are woefully ignorant of the dynamic of abuse. Educate yourself before you judge.


----------



## Knight (Dec 24, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> This doesn’t pass the smell test. Sorry. More fake news?


I don't think it's fake. I'd like to know what they are leaving out about how she managed to accomplish living as she does.


----------



## win231 (Dec 24, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> I notice the BMW's and new SUVs lined up for free food handouts every day.


Not quite the same.  The people in those pricey vehicles bought them when they could afford them- before Covid closed down their employment.


----------



## win231 (Dec 24, 2020)

Ronni said:


> Y’know, abuse isn’t just physical. It can be ******, mental, financial, emotional, psychological.
> 
> I have 5 children. Do you judge me for having had that many children with an abuser before I found the courage to leave?
> 
> As an abuse survivor, I find some of these comments shockingly judgmental and callous. The kindest thing I can say is that you are woefully ignorant of the dynamic of abuse. Educate yourself before you judge.


5 kids isn't 12.


----------



## Robert59 (Dec 24, 2020)

Here is the news on t.v. about this family. 
https://abc13.com/pinewood-trace-house-fire-cy-fair-nw-houston-1-alarm/9002719/


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 25, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> I'm not going to be so quick to buy into all that you posted, Butter, even though you voice a number of valid points that could apply to a situation as this.
> 
> The homes in the neighbourhood of the 6400 block of Pinewood Trace, look to be above average, which brings me to my first point of contention. How does a single mother of 12 children afford a home in the 6400 block of Pinewood Trace?
> 
> ...


Do we know if she was the owner of the house?


----------



## rgp (Dec 25, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> Judgmental? Yes, it is. But she apparently stayed in the relationship long enough to have 12 children, which is a lot of mouths to feed and a lot of little bodies to clothe. That's bad decision making.  Or perhaps a series of relationships resulted in 12 children. Also bad decision making. I hope she can find help and learn to make better decisions. The choices you make determine the life you lead.




 Agree completely here.


----------



## rgp (Dec 25, 2020)

win231 said:


> Not quite the same.  The people in those pricey vehicles bought them when they could afford them- before Covid closed down their employment.



 Perhaps then sell them and purchase more affordable transportation? 

 Captain Obvious here ....... This year has just been so hard on so many. Many of whom I'm sure were self sufficient until the china virus came along.

I do not have much real hope for it but ... I surely hope 2021 turns things around.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 25, 2020)

Wonderful to see the level of compassion expressed for this domestic abuse survivor mother of 11 children whose living space burned down.  

Which of her much mentioned bad decisions caused this to happen to her?  Was it her decision to bear and raise her children rather than aborting them, or her decision to keep her family together rather than dumping them in foster care, or was it her decision to escape an abusive environment?  Or is it just generally OK for awful things to happen to people who make allegedly bad decisions?


----------



## Ronni (Dec 25, 2020)

win231 said:


> 5 kids isn't 12.


I was pregnant more than 5 times. I wasn’t able to carry those pregnancies to term.

If you’ve never been sexually abused, be grateful.


----------



## win231 (Dec 25, 2020)

rgp said:


> Perhaps then sell them and purchase more affordable transportation?
> 
> Captain Obvious here ....... This year has just been so hard on so many. Many of whom I'm sure were self sufficient until the china virus came along.
> 
> I do not have much real hope for it but ... I surely hope 2021 turns things around.


If the vehicle is leased, she would have to pay the entire lease off or pay a big penalty to turn the vehicle in.  Or, she would have to find someone to take over the lease.
If the vehicle wasn't paid off, she would have to sell it & might take a big loss & she would still have to purchase another used vehicle.


----------



## win231 (Dec 25, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> Wonderful to see the level of compassion expressed for this domestic abuse survivor mother of 11 children whose living space burned down.
> 
> Which of her much mentioned bad decisions caused this to happen to her?  Was it her decision to bear and raise her children rather than aborting them, or her decision to keep her family together rather than dumping them in foster care, or was it her decision to escape an abusive environment?  Or is it just generally OK for awful things to happen to people who make allegedly bad decisions?


LOL.  Nice try at making it sound like women just become pregnant automatically; it just happens all by itself without any action on her part.


----------



## CarolfromTX (Dec 25, 2020)

I find it difficult to feel much compassion for a person who has made a long series of bad decisions, including having no insurance. And no back up plan.  But I do feel sorry for her.


----------



## CarolfromTX (Dec 25, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> Women don't always have a choice about having children. Some men think keeping a woman pregnant stops her getting into mischief!


And plenty of women think that having a child will make a man stay with them.  They’re both wrong.


----------



## WhatInThe (Dec 25, 2020)

Sometimes one has to make choices like not carrying insurance. If she didn't the family probably would've been broken up put in foster homes etc. I don't know maybe that would've been better or keeping the family together served them just as well. I'm sure a go fund me drive will wind up helping them. 

Hope this family has a better new year.


----------



## AnnieA (Dec 25, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> I find it difficult to feel much compassion for a person who has made a long series of bad decisions, including having no insurance. And no back up plan.  But I do feel sorry for her.



I feel much more compassion the children she brought into that environment.


----------



## Knight (Dec 25, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> Here is the news on t.v. about this family.
> https://abc13.com/pinewood-trace-house-fire-cy-fair-nw-houston-1-alarm/9002719/


I'm not to good at guessing the age of children so if my guess of the youngest child in the family picture is at the age of 2 I could be wrong. 

According to the video the oldest is 22 he was the one walking the the reporter thru the house. According to the original post she left Louisana in 2017 due to abuse. Didn't say spousal abuse just abuse. If my math is right that is 3 years. Hmmmmmm 2 yr. old and left 3 years ago for abuse? 

It's to bad no information has ever been available for abused women to listen to & evaluate their situation. 

Meanwhile listening to the mother talk I think it's reasonable to conclude she doesn't have a job that pays 6 figures or more so why not explain how she managed to live in a home valued at 3 to 400 hundred thousand dollars. That and to have & insure vehicles she was able to save. 

I could be wrong but I suspect the people of Texas & thru federal programs this family of 12 lives really well from social programs aimed at helping people be able to get off assistance. 

All in all I feel sorry for the kids especially the one showing a gang sign in the family pic. The others hopefully will become working members of society contributing to the welfare of those less fortunate.


----------



## RadishRose (Dec 25, 2020)

Something's not right here. Somehow I missed/couldn't find, anything said about insurance.


----------



## Sunny (Dec 26, 2020)

The house must have been rented by this family, and the owner probably does have insurance.

The article I found said the fire started around 4 AM in the garage. I wonder what was going on in the garage at 4 AM to start a fire?  Some of those kids are teenagers. Were they all in bed at 4 AM?  So far, I haven't seen one word about the cause of the fire.  Could it have been arson? Racism? Teenagers fiddling around with drugs? Who knows? Lots of omissions in this story.

I think the number of children she had is kind of irrelevant. Children are not combustible; if you have more than a certain number, they don't go up in flames.  Would the family have been any more deserving of help if there were, say, 6 children?  Three?  Two?  How many is an okay number?

Knight, I'm curious:  You mention that the article said she suffered abuse, not necessarily spousal abuse.  Why does that make a difference?


----------



## Sunny (Dec 26, 2020)

Duplicate, please skip.


----------



## RadishRose (Dec 26, 2020)

I remember owners of multi family homes having insurance on the property called a "fire policy". It only covered damage to the structure not only by fire, but by other named perils as well.. Not the contents. 

The coverage to the contents was up to the renter, by way of a renter's policy.


----------



## Knight (Dec 26, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Knight, I'm curious:  You mention that the article said she suffered abuse, not necessarily spousal abuse.  Why does that make a difference?


The difference IMO is financial support.  If married then the article should have indicated that fact. Financial help from a spouse might explain her ability to live in a 3 to 400 thousand home & have vehicles. 

If not married then having children from one or more sex partners over the 22 years would mean to me a way to milk the system of societal support in the form of EBT & welfare. Info lacking in the article about how she was able to afford all it takes to house, feed, clothe & care for the 11 children not available to read. So yes I do suspect she was milking the system. I also suspect the system was about to end support so the fire was a convenient way to extend her benefits. I'm allowed to speculate since no real information is in the article. 

Abuse was claimed but the article didn't show what kind or any medical documentation of mental or physical to prove the claim.

If abuse began early in whatever relationship she had and her moral compass was towards providing by her own efforts a good life for a child then she could at any child birth asked to have her tubes tied. 

Bottom line the article presents just enough info to generate sympathy for her & especially the children. I do empathize for the children but given the amount of information available over the years to help abused women to separate themselves from that situation. I don't have much sympathy for the "mother".

I'm also speculating that many posting have similar thoughts just to polite to post as I just did.


----------



## fmdog44 (Dec 26, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> This doesn’t pass the smell test. Sorry. More fake news?


Google it


----------



## fmdog44 (Dec 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> The story doesn't say that she owned the house.  Since she didn't have insurance she was probably renting.


She was renting as it said on the news the morning of the broadcast. The rent had to be huge. I live here so I have a good idea.


----------



## Pepper (Dec 26, 2020)

Could be section 8, etc.  Wish there were more programs to help with housing.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 27, 2020)

win231 said:


> LOL.  Nice try at making it sound like women just become pregnant automatically; it just happens all by itself without any action on her part.


Nice try yourself.  

I never implied that she became pregnant by herself.  Do you have any idea how many abused women suffer repeated marital rape?  Not that there is evidence that that happened in her case, but it does happen, more frequently than you would think.  It's a great way for an abusive male to keep a female under his control.  

What I DID ask was just how her having 11 children has anything at all to do with people having no compassion at all with her living space burning down and her now being homeless.  That question is still open.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 27, 2020)

Sunny said:


> The house must have been rented by this family, and the owner probably does have insurance.
> 
> The article I found said the fire started around 4 AM in the garage. I wonder what was going on in the garage at 4 AM to start a fire?  Some of those kids are teenagers. Were they all in bed at 4 AM?  So far, I haven't seen one word about the cause of the fire.  Could it have been arson? Racism? Teenagers fiddling around with drugs? Who knows? Lots of omissions in this story.
> 
> ...


It doesn't make a difference, nor does the number of children.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 27, 2020)

Knight said:


> The difference IMO is financial support.  If married then the article should have indicated that fact. Financial help from a spouse might explain her ability to live in a 3 to 400 thousand home & have vehicles.
> 
> If not married then having children from one or more sex partners over the 22 years would mean to me a way to milk the system of societal support in the form of EBT & welfare. Info lacking in the article about how she was able to afford all it takes to house, feed, clothe & care for the 11 children not available to read. So yes I do suspect she was milking the system. I also suspect the system was about to end support so the fire was a convenient way to extend her benefits. I'm allowed to speculate since no real information is in the article.
> 
> ...



If you had ever worked with abused women, you would realize just how little real help there is available to actually help them safely leave, and how few actually manage it, especially those with children. Too many of them are under the threat of "if you try to leave I will find you and kill you and the children."  Secondly, I don't think a newspaper article needs to show medical documentation of abuse --it's not a court of law, it's a news story..  Her medical  history is  nobody's business but  hers. Thirdly, it is presumptuous to assume she was "milking the system."


----------



## win231 (Dec 27, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> Nice try yourself.
> 
> I never implied that she became pregnant by herself.  Do you have any idea how many abused women suffer repeated marital rape?  Not that there is evidence that that happened in her case, but it does happen, more frequently than you would think.  It's a great way for an abusive male to keep a female under his control.
> 
> What I DID ask was just how her having 11 children has anything at all to do with people having no compassion at all with her living space burning down and her now being homeless.  That question is still open.


That question has been answered.  And, (as you said) there is no evidence of "Marital Rape."


----------



## Ronni (Dec 27, 2020)

win231 said:


> That question has been answered.  And, (as you said) there is no evidence of "Marital Rape."


What?  “Evidence?”  OMG how ridiculous!  It’s a news story, not a police report!  

To make sure I wouldn’t leave him, I was threatened repeatedly by my abuser variations of the following:

He’d take my kids away from me
I would never see my kids again
He’d make sure my kids came to hate me
My life wouldn’t be worth living if I left
He would fine me and make me regret it

And yes, I was also raped repeatedly in my marriage.

As I’ve said here already, until you or anyone else has a thorough education in the abuse dynamic, you can’t possibly have a clue, no matter how much you THINK you know.


----------



## ProTruckDriver (Dec 27, 2020)

There may be more to this story we all don't know about but story doesn't pass the smell test for me. Nice neighborhood, size of the house, what did she do to keep an income? If this is Section 8 housing??? WoW Nice. Many know how to work the Government, We have all seen it. Not saying this family has, but something here smells fishy.


win231 said:


> Reminds me of those panhandlers with their small children.
> They load up their kids & drive home at the end of their shifts - in a $50,000.00 SUV.


I've seen it at Truck Stops all the time. Panhandlers with children that were suppose to be in school asking for money. They would hit one truck stop after another by driving away in a fairly new big SUV.


----------



## Pepper (Dec 27, 2020)

No one can work the government, unless perhaps if one is already wealthy and powerful.  Would it make you feel any better, @ProTruckDriver, if this family lived in a broken down slum with the paint peeling and the pipes exposed?  

As for the fire starting in the garage that in no way proves or even indicates that the garage was being used for any purpose other than the intended one.  Nor does it prove the garage was occupied at the time the fire started @Sunny.


----------



## StarSong (Dec 27, 2020)

I'm absolutely shocked at the amount of unkind speculation this article has spawned.


----------



## ProTruckDriver (Dec 27, 2020)

Pepper said:


> No one can work the government


WoW! Where have you been, look around. People on Food Stamps, Welfare, etc while wearing expensive clothing, driving expensive cars etc.... I know people that work the government out of money for themselves.
Sorry to say my parents knew how to work the government out of money for themselves before I was a teenager in the 1950's. My mother according to the government was a single mother collecting welfare. I always wondered why there was a ice cube tray on the table by the window near the door. When the Welfare worker would visit my mother, my mother would stand up the ice cube tray on the inside window sill that could be seen from outside. This was a signal to my father that the welfare worker was present and do not come in.


Pepper said:


> Would it make you feel any better, @ProTruckDriver, if this family lived in a broken down slum with the paint peeling and the pipes exposed?


I believe you missed the point. Section 8 in 400K to 500K brick homes?
Section 8 should live in a decent home not an expensive home some working people could not afford.


----------



## StarSong (Dec 27, 2020)

ProTruckDriver said:


> I believe you missed the point. Section 8 in 400K to 500K brick homes?
> Section 8 should live in a decent home not an expensive home some working people could not afford.


What evidence or verified news reports indicate this is Section 8 housing?


----------



## win231 (Dec 27, 2020)

ProTruckDriver said:


> There may be more to this story we all don't know about but story doesn't pass the smell test for me. Nice neighborhood, size of the house, what did she do to keep an income? If this is Section 8 housing??? WoW Nice. Many know how to work the Government, We have all seen it. Not saying this family has, but something here smells fishy.
> 
> I've seen it at Truck Stops all the time. Panhandlers with children that were suppose to be in school asking for money. They would hit one truck stop after another by driving away in a fairly new big SUV.


Having children with them gets them more sympathy (from suckers) than trading dogs with each other.


----------



## Pepper (Dec 27, 2020)

StarSong said:


> What evidence or verified news reports indicate this is Section 8 housing?


It was mere speculation on my part when folks here were wondering how the mom was able to afford housing.  Section 8 is an excellent program, but I can see anger & envy when one neighbor gets it and one pays full price.

We are so set against each other and that is deliberate.  Divide & conquer, yessir.


----------



## Pepper (Dec 27, 2020)

It helps survival, these gov't programs, but it don't make you rich.  Not that it is designed to, of course.


----------



## win231 (Dec 27, 2020)

Ronni said:


> What?  “Evidence?”  OMG how ridiculous!  It’s a news story, not a police report!
> 
> To make sure I wouldn’t leave him, I was threatened repeatedly by my abuser variations of the following:
> 
> ...


People who stay with abusers often have self esteem issues & feel they don't deserve any better.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Dec 27, 2020)

One thing I've kept an eye on is the GoFundMe account, where the initial goal was to reach $40,000, and at the time the account was at $31,000 (and change).

I see this morning the account is now at $59,000 (and change).

I don't know how GoFundMe works, but I'm guessing so long as there are people who are willing to part ways with their money, the account just keeps on growing and growing. 

Maybe the mother can end up walking away with six-figures, or maybe she'll even get to see the account grow to a million or more. That's what I call easy money.

Sure wish GoFundMe was alive and well when dear husband and I were first starting out.


----------



## Pepper (Dec 27, 2020)

Most people on GoFundMe get nothing, zero, zilch.  It is the stories that attract people's sympathies that can rake it in.  And since no one is forced to give, it's hard to complain.  Not that you are, dearest Marg!


----------



## Ronni (Dec 27, 2020)

win231 said:


> People who stay with abusers often have self esteem issues & feel they don't deserve any better.


People who stay with abusers have had the self-esteem they started out with completely nullified by the systematic domination, control, minimizing, isolating, and demoralizing abuse dished out to them until they feel sub-human and unworthy


----------



## Sunny (Dec 27, 2020)

Pepper said:


> No one can work the government, unless perhaps if one is already wealthy and powerful.  Would it make you feel any better, @ProTruckDriver, if this family lived in a broken down slum with the paint peeling and the pipes exposed?
> 
> As for the fire starting in the garage that in no way proves or even indicates that the garage was being used for any purpose other than the intended one.  Nor does it prove the garage was occupied at the time the fire started @Sunny.


True, although if the garage was just being used for the "intended purpose," how did it burst into flames all by itself at 4 AM?  Just thinking out loud, I always wonder about the causes of fires.  This has nothing to do with having compassion for this woman and her family. They are Black; it could have been racism. (Especially these days!)

Speaking of which, some of the replies in this thread seem to be suggesting that this woman is an evil schemer, popping out baby after baby in an effort to "milk the system."  From the sketchy details given in this article, it sounds like anything but.  My guess is that she did make some bad choices, got herself trapped in an abusive relationship (or series of them), may have had a husband/boyfriend who refused to let her use birth control - and yes, I once worked with a guy who boasted about that - and didn't have the resources to escape from the nightmare she was living in.  Sounds like she finally did escape, and found some help.  

We don't know what rent she was paying, or who provided the home she was living in. Could have been made available by a social service agency or charitable organization. Or, as some have suggested, Section 8. Yes, some Section 8 homes are in very nice neighborhoods, they are not necessarily in slums. That's probably a disappointment to those who want Biblical retribution.

The whole scenario of people who are living high on the hog while pretending to be poor has a familiar foul odor.  Looking at life through the prism of narrow morality prompts predictable holier-than-thou sermonizing.  She has 12 children?  Well, the reason HAS to be be that she's figured out how to milk the system. 

I know nothing about this case, but my own gut level reaction is that she is a deeply disturbed woman who may have been abused her whole life, she followed poor role models, and until recently didn't have any support system to help her escape. Didn't have her tubes tied?  Could have been her religion, her lack of education and information, or the fact that her guy (guys?) had her terrorized.

Seems to be an awful lot of holier-than-thou humphing and sniffing on this subject.


----------



## StarSong (Dec 27, 2020)

Sunny said:


> We don't know what rent she was paying, or who provided the home she was living in. Could have been made available by a social service agency or charitable organization. Or, as some have suggested, Section 8. Yes, some Section 8 homes are in very nice neighborhoods, they are not necessarily in slums. That's probably a disappointment to those who want Biblical retribution


https://www.fox26houston.com/news/a...-christmas-eve-after-fire-destroys-their-home

This fire may turn out to be a blessing in disguise for the family. An extremely generous donor's heart was touched and he/she is coming to their rescue.


----------



## Knight (Dec 27, 2020)

Ronni said:


> People who stay with abusers have had the self-esteem they started out with completely nullified by the systematic domination, control, minimizing, isolating, and demoralizing abuse dished out to them until they feel sub-human and unworthy


For 22 years & no mention of a husband?  Granted the woman may not be the brightest bulb in the pack but at some point continuing to have children when no mention of a job or income source even the most sympathetic person has to wonder how she supports that many. 

I wonder by posting what I think. I think the more kids you have with not enough income or any income this mother of 11 used the system to live well above what others that work & struggle do.


----------



## StarSong (Dec 27, 2020)

Knight said:


> For 22 years & no mention of a husband?  Granted the woman may not be the brightest bulb in the pack but at some point continuing to have children when no mention of a job or income source even the most sympathetic person has to wonder how she supports that many.
> 
> I wonder by posting what I think. I think the more kids you have with not enough income or any income this mother of 11 used the system to live well above what others that work & struggle do.


What makes you think she didn't work or have sufficient income to support her children?  I'm not saying she did or didn't, merely that there's no information either way.

jBack in the early 2000s, my mother-in-law (may she rest in peace) mentioned at least half a dozen times that a local grocery chain's CEO and TV commercial star had only one arm.  It seemed so curious to me, particularly because I hadn't heard it anywhere else.  I finally asked her how she knew he only had one arm and her reply (so help me, these were here exact words) was: "Well, you only ever see the one."  

Although true that during the commercials he would stand at an angle so you only ever saw one arm, it nevertheless seemed a pretty big leap to me. After some sleuthing I found news photos of the man, who did indeed have two fully functioning arms. 

Maybe the family in this news story was barely making it, maybe they had some government help, maybe the mom worked, maybe she received support from an ex-husband or father of her children, maybe, maybe, maybe.  

Just like that grocer's second arm, six paragraph news stories don't show the full person and family whose lives were turned upside-down by a late night fire.  

In my family when not all facts are present but the speculating begins, another of us will often say, "Yeah, and I'm pretty sure he's only got the one arm..." Pretty much ends the speculation.


----------



## Ronni (Dec 27, 2020)

Knight said:


> For 22 years & no mention of a husband?  Granted the woman may not be the brightest bulb in the pack but at some point continuing to have children when no mention of a job or income source even the most sympathetic person has to wonder how she supports that many.
> 
> I wonder by posting what I think. I think the more kids you have with not enough income or any income this mother of 11 used the system to live well above what others that work & struggle do.


She may be gaming the system @Knight, it happens all the time. My vehemence was never about that, I have no way to know.  My vehemence on this thread began with post #19.  And continued from there.  Questioning how abusive her situation was given how many children she had is ridiculous, ignorant and entirely unfounded if the poster had the most basic knowledge of the dynamics of abuse.  

BECAUSE the original article mentioned abuse, my first thought, because I've lived the scenario personally, is to wonder if those kids were more the result of the abuse she was living with than any conscious intention on her part to have a bunch of kids in order to use and abuse the system to her benefit.  Others are focusing on the number of kids, the cost of the house, the car she drives, lack of insurance and the rest and speculating as to how that might be.

Because of my own abuse history, I am focusing more on that aspect.  It galls me more than I can easily articulate when I see an abuse victim blamed for his/her situation, because of ignorance, lack of knowledge or compassion, or outright brutality.


----------



## win231 (Dec 27, 2020)

Ronni said:


> People who stay with abusers have had the self-esteem they started out with completely nullified by the systematic domination, control, minimizing, isolating, and demoralizing abuse dished out to them until they feel sub-human and unworthy


People who stay with an abuser have had their self esteem nullified _long before_ they met their future abuser.  They choose poorly because that's what they're accustomed to beforehand.  The source is often their parents.


----------



## JustBonee (Dec 27, 2020)

Knight said:


> I don't think it's fake. I'd like to know what they are leaving out about how she managed to accomplish living as she does.



Houston Housing Authority,  like most other cities,   has a share of fairly new homes  that they let the  poor live in.. and theses houses  are all over the city. ...was Section 8.  
HHA gets their money from the government.   I have no idea how it is all spread around to the agencies,   and how they get their cuts for these programs.

Vouchers  are given out  to  the people on these  Aid programs who have little  or  nothing.  
In turn,  those people  are required to pay for their housing with a percentage of  those vouchers they receive.


----------



## Knight (Dec 27, 2020)

StarSong said:


> What makes you think she didn't work or have sufficient income to support her children?  I'm not saying she did or didn't, merely that there's no information either way.
> 
> jBack in the early 2000s, my mother-in-law (may she rest in peace) mentioned at least half a dozen times that a local grocery chain's CEO and TV commercial star had only one arm.  It seemed so curious to me, particularly because I hadn't heard it anywhere else.  I finally asked her how she knew he only had one arm and her reply (so help me, these were here exact words) was: "Well, you only ever see the one."
> 
> ...


I've pointed out that the article is lacking in info. So IMO that opens the door for speculation. Speculation generates a lot of input that is sometimes not understood by others. Like Ronni's input about abuse.


----------



## ProTruckDriver (Dec 27, 2020)

Bonnie said:


> Houston Housing Authority,  like most other cities,   has a share of fairly new homes  that they let the  poor live in.. and theses houses  are all over the city. ...was Section 8.
> HHA gets their money from the government.   I have no idea how it is all spread around to the agencies,   and how they get their cuts for these programs.
> 
> Vouchers  are given out  to  the people on these  Aid programs who have little  or  nothing.
> In turn,  those people  are required to pay for their housing with a percentage of  those vouchers they receive.


I didn't realize they are giving out 400K - 500K or more homes as section 8.


----------



## Pepper (Dec 27, 2020)

ProTruckDriver said:


> I didn't realize they are giving out 400K - 500K or more homes as section 8.


They must as unfortunately for All of us, there is almost no affordable housing.  The rent is too damn high.


----------



## Becky1951 (Dec 27, 2020)

A fire in the garage.
Simple, garage's have electricity and faulty worn or frayed wires do start fires.


----------



## Pepper (Dec 27, 2020)

EXACTLY @Becky1951


----------



## Sunny (Dec 27, 2020)

ProTruckDriver said:


> I didn't realize they are giving out 400K - 500K or more homes as section 8.


I wonder how many "affordable" homes are available for a family this size for much less than this.  But, how do you know what they paid for their home, or if they own it vs. renting it?  I suspect the home is owned by some local social service agency, or may be privately owned by is rented by the social service agency.  So before we all get our bloomers in a bunch about deadbeats being able somehow to buy a nice suburban home like this, shouldn't we at least know they do, in fact, own the house?

Jeez!

P.S. Just FYI, I live in a very nice, some might say luxury condo development. It's a gated community for seniors, with all kinds of amenities, beautiful landscaping, built around a golf course, etc.

Yet. a limited number of apartments and stand-alone homes are designated as Section 8.  So what?


----------



## Knight (Dec 27, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> A fire in the garage.
> Simple, garage's have electricity and faulty worn or frayed wires do start fires.


True but that typically is due to the age of the home. That home didn't look that old to be built so long ago that wiring built to code would not have been in place.

Just another fact not presented, if the cause was presented that could  end speculation about the cause.


----------



## Pepper (Dec 27, 2020)

It's not the age of the home or the neighborhood, it's the quality of the workmanship.  Many electrical fires begin when too many things are plugged into one source.


----------



## Ronni (Dec 27, 2020)

Knight said:


> For 22 years & no mention of a husband?  Granted the woman may not be the brightest bulb in the pack but at some point continuing to have children when no mention of a job or income source even the most sympathetic person has to wonder how she supports that many.
> 
> I wonder by posting what I think. I think the more





win231 said:


> People who stay with an abuser have had their self esteem nullified _long before_ they met their future abuser.  They choose poorly because that's what they're accustomed to beforehand.  The source is often their parents.


Quote your source. Link your reference. Show your psych degree. If you can’t do that then your opinion has zero credence.


----------



## win231 (Dec 27, 2020)

Ronni said:


> Quote your source. Link your reference. Show your psych degree. If you can’t do that then your opinion has zero credence.


LOL.


----------



## ProTruckDriver (Dec 27, 2020)

Sunny said:


> P.S. Just FYI, I live in a very nice, some might say luxury condo development. It's a gated community for seniors, with all kinds of amenities, beautiful landscaping, built around a golf course, etc.


FYI, so do I with the exception of a golf course. It will be 1 year this March that we live here.


Sunny said:


> Yet. a limited number of apartments and stand-alone homes are designated as Section 8. So what?


They were talking about putting section 8 here about 4 months months ago and decided not to when a large number of residents started putting in their notice to move. I don't know about other places but here in the Tidewater Area of Virginia section 8 areas are really worn down, even the new homes they built for section 8 people are in bad shape. It looks like a majority of section 8 people do not take care of the property they are living in.


----------



## Knight (Dec 27, 2020)

Pepper said:


> It's not the age of the home or the neighborhood, it's the quality of the workmanship.  Many electrical fires begin when too many things are plugged into one source.


True as in the home Debudon has explained about her older home.
Hard to believe that McMansion pictured would not be up to code thus tripping a circuit breaker before a fire could happen. But until the cause is known we get to speculate 

Each device uses a certain amount of electricity when it's operating, adding to the total load on the circuit, but when you try to use more electricity than your circuit is made for, you get a circuit overload. This causes the breaker to trip, which shuts off the power supply to that circuit. Apr 1, 2020

What is an Electrical Circuit Overload?www.electricteam.com ›

I could understand an old home with a fuse panel that people would put a 50amp fuse in a 20 amp circuit but with strict guide lines about wire size & installation & circuit breakers not fuses, that hazard has been curtailed. Google Huston city electrical panel requirements. There is a lengthy pdf outlining what is required.


----------



## Sunny (Dec 27, 2020)

Is anyone here from the Houston area?  I wonder if their local papers went into more detail about this.


----------



## StarSong (Dec 27, 2020)

According to zillow.com the value of this home, pre-fire, was about $350K.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6434-Pinewood-Trace-Ln-Houston-TX-77041/58675514_zpid/


----------



## Ronni (Dec 27, 2020)

win231 said:


> LOL.


Exactly.


----------



## Irwin (Dec 27, 2020)

An anonymous donor gave her $100,000. On the surface that sounds good, but that's probably going to make her ineligible for welfare, so she might be worse off in the long run.


----------



## JustBonee (Dec 28, 2020)

Irwin said:


> An anonymous donor gave her $100,000. On the surface that sounds good, but that's probably going to make her ineligible for welfare, so she might be worse off in the long run.



Exactly ...  If she gets that money,   she will have to figure out how to live on her own.


----------



## Knight (Dec 28, 2020)

Irwin said:


> An anonymous donor gave her $100,000. On the surface that sounds good, but that's probably going to make her ineligible for welfare, so she might be worse off in the long run.


The article lacked a lot of info. Living on welfare not mentioned, living in section 8 housing not mentioned, marital status not mentioned. The only real info was a mother of 11 was living in a house in Huston that burned down.

From that this thread has been all over the place with speculation, and real life experiences relating to abuse.  Interesting enough to generate over 90 posts.


----------



## Jules (Dec 28, 2020)

You‘d expect the donor did a deep dive into the whole story prior to the donation and was satisfied with the history.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Dec 28, 2020)

Jules said:


> You‘d expect the donor did a deep dive into the whole story prior to the donation and was satisfied with the history.


I just can't believe how deep some people's pockets are.


----------



## Jules (Dec 28, 2020)

Of course some people will say they’re going to donate and it never happens.  They do have a substantial amount already in the GFM account.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 30, 2020)

win231 said:


> People who stay with abusers often have self esteem issues & feel they don't deserve any better.


And many are afraid that if they leave, they'll wind up dead or lose their children.  We had one client who did -- wind up dead, I mean.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 30, 2020)

Sunny said:


> True, although if the garage was just being used for the "intended purpose," how did it burst into flames all by itself at 4 AM?  Just thinking out loud, I always wonder about the causes of fires.  This has nothing to do with having compassion for this woman and her family. They are Black; it could have been racism. (Especially these days!)
> 
> Speaking of which, some of the replies in this thread seem to be suggesting that this woman is an evil schemer, popping out baby after baby in an effort to "milk the system."  From the sketchy details given in this article, it sounds like anything but.  My guess is that she did make some bad choices, got herself trapped in an abusive relationship (or series of them), may have had a husband/boyfriend who refused to let her use birth control - and yes, I once worked with a guy who boasted about that - and didn't have the resources to escape from the nightmare she was living in.  Sounds like she finally did escape, and found some help.
> 
> ...



The news video that was posted earlier here said that they had one car in the garage, which they could get out but they couldn't get the oldest son's truck out because they couldn't find the keys, which to me indiocates the garage was being used for its intended purpose.

Fire could have been a short in an electrical circuit, or who knows.  When I was working in LA years ago, there was a funny smell like hot rubber or plastic for a minute or so, not an overwhelming smell, just enough for you to think "what's that funny smell?) and then one entire wall in our office (in an older building) burst into flames -- absolutely out of nowhere.  Fire people later decided a short in wiring caused insulation or something in the wall to catch fire.  We all got out OK, but I've never forgotten that the only warning was that very short time of odd smell, then boom! a wall of flame.  It was very scary.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 30, 2020)

Knight said:


> For 22 years & no mention of a husband?  Granted the woman may not be the brightest bulb in the pack but at some point continuing to have children when no mention of a job or income source even the most sympathetic person has to wonder how she supports that many.
> 
> I wonder by posting what I think. I think the more kids you have with not enough income or any income this mother of 11 used the system to live well above what others that work & struggle do.



I helped my niece get what welfare and food assistance she could for her and her 3 minor children when she was diagnosed with cancer and could not continue to work.  I was surprised at how little it was.  Nobody "games the system" and lives high on the hog on what welfare gives you -- at least not here, they don't.   Most of that "welfare queen" and "welfare Cadillac" stuff is pure, unadulterated hogwash.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 30, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I'm absolutely shocked at the amount of unkind speculation this article has spawned.



I am, also, which is why I posted what I did earlier.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 30, 2020)

win231 said:


> That question has been answered.  And, (as you said) there is no evidence of "Marital Rape."


There isn't  evidence of anything else, either.  It was a news story, not an appellate brief!  No evidence of something happening is not evidence that nothing happened, as we used to say in the trade.


----------



## Knight (Dec 30, 2020)

I liked the recent post by Butterfly because it shows the difference between postings. 

In my post I focused on the woman & didn't say anything about welfare queen or living high off the hog. I didn't offer any personal or family member experiences.

Quote
"I wonder by posting what I think. I think the more kids you have with not enough income or any income this mother of 11 used the system to live well above what others that work & struggle do."

This is the kind of info I use to come to the conclusion I did.

In 2018, 38.1 million people were in poverty. Or at least that’s the number the U.S. Census Bureau has calculated. For decades now, researchers and advocates have argued that the official number is much too low. Using more complex measures of economic insecurity and the costs facing low-income households, one study found that at least 3.2 million more people should be classified as being “in poverty” based on inflation changes alone; another analysis found that almost 51 million households struggle to pay for basic necessities such as food, housing, and health care.

In 2018, the poverty line was $25,465 for a family of four—two adults and two children—and the official poverty rate was 11.8 percent.
https://www.americanprogress.org/is...poverty-line-matters-isnt-capturing-everyone/

Given that as a reference. Living in the home she did, with no info about any other social programs she was eligible for just the home & having two vehicles IMO I think the more kids you have with not enough income or any income this mother of 11 used the system to live well above what others that work & struggle do.

Not as a welfare queen or living high off the hog but certainly better than millions of others. I should have written uses the system not used since I'm guessing she still qualifies for help. Not that she shouldn't get help, more about the lack of info to be better informed about what social assistance is possible when that assistance provides for a standard of living that APPEARS to be better than those living below poverty level.


----------

