# Yet Another Contradiction On Ways To Catch The Virus



## fmdog44 (Aug 25, 2020)

Now I read touching surfaces is not a big concern, Also, now 26 feet is the new distance for aerosol germs. With the entire world under this pandemic and the number of scientists in the world and the history of medicine understanding how the dieases spread does it not strike you strange they can't figure out what is the safe distance? 6 ft., 16 ft., now 26 ft.


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## win231 (Aug 25, 2020)

The "Experts" don't want to admit they know very little, so they will always throw out "information" that makes them sound knowledgeable.  And, (as noted previously) they will apologize for exaggerating.
Remember that silly chart that showed how long Coronavirus can live on different surfaces?
I previously mentioned the signs posted on every crosswalk pole in my area:  "Do not push button for the "Walk" signal.  Wait for the light to indicate "Walk."  The city spent lots of money for the signs and changing the electronics & now we're told it's OK to touch surfaces.


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## Tommy (Aug 26, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Now I read touching surfaces is not a big concern, Also, now 26 feet is the new distance for aerosol germs. With the entire world under this pandemic and the number of scientists in the world and the history of medicine understanding how the dieases spread does it not strike you strange they can't figure out what is the safe distance? 6 ft., 16 ft., now 26 ft.


I haven't yet read that, fmdog44.  Can you post a link to a reliable source?


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## Keesha (Aug 26, 2020)

win231 said:


> The "Experts" don't want to admit they know very little, so they will always throw out "information" that makes them sound knowledgeable.  And, (as noted previously) they will apologize for exaggerating.
> Remember that silly chart that showed how long Coronavirus can live on different surfaces?
> I previously mentioned the signs posted on every crosswalk pole in my area:  "Do not push button for the "Walk" signal.  Wait for the light to indicate "Walk."  The city spent lots of money for the signs and changing the electronics & now we're told it's OK to touch surfaces.


Better to over exaggerate danger than deny it altogether.


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## Judycat (Aug 26, 2020)

From the beginning I heard doctors laughing about the 6 ft rule. They said cough and sneeze aerosols hang in the air for greater distances, but at the same time the viral load factor diminishes the farther away you are.


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## win231 (Aug 26, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Better to over exaggerate danger than deny it altogether.


If the exaggeration's purpose was to be overly cautious to protect us, I'd agree.  But when exaggeration's purpose is to create fear to sell vaccines & drugs, that's a different story.


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## Keesha (Aug 26, 2020)

Here’s the last thing I heard about social distancing in the US without getting into politics. Yes it’s from April 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globaln...virus-trump-social-distancing-guidelines/amp/


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## Keesha (Aug 26, 2020)

win231 said:


> If the exaggeration's purpose was to be overly cautious to protect us, I'd agree.  But when exaggeration's purpose is to create fear to sell vaccines & drugs, that's a different story.


But is it really win. What proof do you have? I’m certainly not taking any more drugs than my usually ones and I’m certainly NOT getting vaccinated any time soon so YES  I think the mandate IS to protect


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## win231 (Aug 26, 2020)

Keesha said:


> But is it really win. What proof do you have? I’m certainly not taking any more drugs than my usually ones and I’m certainly NOT getting vaccinated any time soon so YES  I think the mandate IS to protect


There aren't any drugs or vaccine for Covid approved yet.  But when they are, you can bet most people will want them.
After ad campaigns that use fear to sell flu shots (with the same exaggerations), crowds of people stood in lines that went around the block.
Fear turns people into non-thinking robots & sheep & they'll buy anything.  Exactly what is needed.


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## Sunny (Aug 26, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Now I read touching surfaces is not a big concern, Also, now 26 feet is the new distance for aerosol germs. With the entire world under this pandemic and the number of scientists in the world and the history of medicine understanding how the dieases spread does it not strike you strange they can't figure out what is the safe distance? 6 ft., 16 ft., now 26 ft.



I don't have any problem with scientists changing their findings, as time goes along. Isn't that what continuous research is all about?  The information we get is the latest, and most likely to be correct. But it's not sacred, didn't get handed down from heaven, it was just the best conclusions the researchers had available according to the latest state of the art.  

If their findings change as time goes along, I say good!  That shows they are doing their job.  Remember, scientific findings are not religious dogma.

Having said that, I don't remember seeing anything about that 26 feet business, other than what you said about it. What is your source?


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## Keesha (Aug 26, 2020)

win231 said:


> There aren't any drugs or vaccine for Covid approved yet.  But when they are, you can bet most people will want them.
> After ad campaigns that use fear to sell flu shots (with the same exaggerations), crowds of people stood in lines that went around the block.
> Fear turns people into non-thinking robots & sheep & they'll buy anything.  Exactly what is needed.


I realize there aren’t any drugs or vaccines for Covid but even if there were I’m certainly not going to be the first to try them. Once they are proven effective, that’s a different story but these are TWO different topics. 

Sure ad campaigns use fear to sell their products. They always have and always will . That’s a totally different issue than acting like the virus doesn’t exist and there is no pandemic or are you still going with the belief that this is an ordinary flu? 

Suggesting wearing masks are safe distancing are NOT fear tactics to sell anything. It’s a provision to protect us. The people not doing so are not only jeopardizing their own lives but everyone else’s. 

Whether this virus was purposely created in a lab so that the big pharm can  sell their drugs and vaccines is a different topic altogether. The virus is here and needs to now be dealt with. Arguing about who is going to profit for this pandemic, at this point, is irrelevant.


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## win231 (Aug 26, 2020)

Keesha said:


> I realize there aren’t any drugs or vaccines for Covid but even if there were I’m certainly not going to be the first to try them. Once they are proven effective, that’s a different story but this is TWO different topics.
> 
> Sure ad campaigns use fear to sell their products. They always have and always will . That’s a totally different issue than acting like the virus doesn’t exist and there is no pandemic or are you still going with the belief that this is an ordinary flu?
> 
> ...


Who profits from this pandemic is relevant if profit is the only motive.


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## Keesha (Aug 26, 2020)

win231 said:


> Who profits from this pandemic is relevant if profit is the only motive.


I’m not in complete disagreement here. What I’m saying is that if keeping distance and wearing masks has been proven to significantly reduce this virus , then the why and what motive of this pandemic and who profits don’t matter. 

Keeping distance and wearing masks has been proven to prevent the spread of it Anyone following this can make the same conclusion. 

Maybe this was developed as a sadistic money grab from some twisted authority. The virus doesn’t care.


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## Don M. (Aug 26, 2020)

People can "speculate" all they want with regard to this virus.  Personally, I would rather exercise Caution than to "poo poo" this illness.  I will wear a mask when out in public, and stay well away from anyone failing to do so.


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## Sunny (Aug 27, 2020)

win231 said:


> Who profits from this pandemic is relevant if profit is the only motive.



Hey, Win, for once I agree with you!

I don't begrudge any amount of profit that will be made by the drug company that comes up with a vaccine or a cure. Fortunes have been made by providing things of a lot less value to mankind.


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## squatting dog (Aug 27, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Having said that, I don't remember seeing anything about that 26 feet business, other than what you said about it. What is your source?



Gonna go with dog on this one. 
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...esearcher-lydia-bourouiba-27-feet/5091526002/

https://www.thehealthsite.com/news/...imum-20-feet-to-be-safe-from-covid-19-748286/

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavi...recommendation-driving-some-experts-nuts.html


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## StarSong (Aug 29, 2020)

squatting dog said:


> Gonna go with dog on this one.
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...esearcher-lydia-bourouiba-27-feet/5091526002/
> 
> https://www.thehealthsite.com/news/...imum-20-feet-to-be-safe-from-covid-19-748286/
> ...


This is why people need to WEAR MASKS!!!!


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## win231 (Aug 29, 2020)

Speaking of ad campaigns, here is another creative one:
Yesterday, it was reported that "Now is the time for everyone to make sure they get a flu shot because it's difficult to distinguish Covid-19 from the flu and we don't want hospitals to be overrun with flu victims."  (Did they forget what they've previously told us - that this isn't like the flu; it's much more serious & deadly?)
Every product/drug/vaccine/useless weight loss supplement/vitamin pill is now "more important than ever to boost your immune system & stay healthy."
UV light wands that kill viruses.
And those "Special masks infused with copper,"  LOL.
Yeah....show that you're "Taking this seriously" by buying whatever we're selling.  Don't think.  Just buy.
Ba.a.a.a.Ba.a.a.a..Ba.a.a.a.Like sheep.


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## hellomimi (Aug 29, 2020)

win231 said:


> I previously mentioned the signs posted on every crosswalk pole in my area:  "Do not push button for the "Walk" signal.  Wait for the light to indicate "Walk."  The city spent lots of money for the signs and changing the electronics & now we're told it's OK to touch surfaces.


May I interrupt this thread for non covid19 question?

Since @win231 mentioned street signals to indicate "Walk" or "Do NOT Walk"  when I see it's safe to cross the street with vehicles stopped, I cross the street even with "Do NOT Walk" signal. Is that jaywalking? Please tell me now before I do it again and get caught. TIA

Proceed to regular programming.


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## win231 (Aug 29, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> May I interrupt this thread for non covid19 question?
> 
> Since @win231 mentioned street signals to indicate "Walk" or "Do NOT Walk"  when I see it's safe to cross the street with vehicles stopped, I cross the street even with "Do NOT Walk" signal. Is that jaywalking? Please tell me now before I do it again and get caught. TIA
> 
> Proceed to regular programming.


Absolutely - it's the crime of the century.


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## JaniceM (Aug 29, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> May I interrupt this thread for non covid19 question?
> 
> Since @win231 mentioned street signals to indicate "Walk" or "Do NOT Walk"  when I see it's safe to cross the street with vehicles stopped, I cross the street even with "Do NOT Walk" signal. Is that jaywalking? Please tell me now before I do it again and get caught. TIA
> 
> Proceed to regular programming.


I wasn't far from your location when it resulted in a ticket and a fine.


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## JaniceM (Aug 29, 2020)

win231 said:


> Absolutely - it's the crime of the century.


It was my sole 'criminal history.'  Cost me $77.


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## hellomimi (Aug 29, 2020)

Thanks guys! I got away that time, I'll not do it again.


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## win231 (Aug 29, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> I wasn't far from your location when it resulted in a ticket and a fine.


I think "Jaywalking" is crossing in mid block where there is no intersection.


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## MarciKS (Aug 29, 2020)

Just because we're afraid doesn't mean *ALL *of us are gonna want that vaccine. I'm all for protecting myself but I'm not running headlong into a vaccine needle just out of fear.


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## Becky1951 (Aug 29, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Just because we're afraid doesn't mean *ALL *of us are gonna want that vaccine. I'm all for protecting myself but I'm not running headlong into a vaccine needle just out of fear.



When I'm convinced its *Safe *and *Effective *I'll get it, but not until then.


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## fmdog44 (Aug 29, 2020)

Tommy said:


> I haven't yet read that, fmdog44.  Can you post a link to a reliable source?


It has been on the news repeatedly over the past week on several networks. Sorry, no link. Try Google.


hellomimi said:


> May I interrupt this thread for non covid19 question?
> 
> Since @win231 mentioned street signals to indicate "Walk" or "Do NOT Walk"  when I see it's safe to cross the street with vehicles stopped, I cross the street even with "Do NOT Walk" signal. Is that jaywalking? Please tell me now before I do it again and get caught. TIA
> 
> Proceed to regular programming.


Stay away from the Biograph Theater if you know what's good for you.


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## JaniceM (Aug 29, 2020)

win231 said:


> I think "Jaywalking" is crossing in mid block where there is no intersection.


I was told all a person needed to do was start crossing the street after the light changed.


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## Lethe200 (Aug 30, 2020)

This is a novel coronavirus; e.g., never seen before. So ALL studies are very preliminary, what scientists and health officials are looking for are *trends.* It will take many months - years, probably - before we'll have enough data to make definitive statements about things like "how close is too close?"

A recent WashPost article pointed out the 6' rule has always been offered as a general rule, NOT an absolute. For example, we know (from many scientific videos) that aerosols from a sneeze can travel up to 18 feet (as opposed to larger droplets, which don't usually travel more than 2-3 feet).

But we also know that not all sneezed aerosols will travel a full 18 feet. What we DON'T know is how many of those aerosols *that are contagious* are needed to infect someone who is at a distance of 8 feet....or 11 feet.....or 15 feet away. 

And it obviously depends on other factors: is the other person wearing a mask? How long did they stay close by (multiple study data seem to indicate that 15 min close exposure is the "red zone" for risking infection)? Indoors, or out? Breeze blowing? Vented A/C pushing the aerosols towards that other person, or away from them? 

We know masks reduce the rate of infection from viruses because it's worked for every single virus (there are over 2,000 flu viruses alone) and coronavirus that has been discovered so far. It's a generalization, but in light of over 100 yrs of recorded mask usage, we can assume it's advice that has been well-tested.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 30, 2020)

Lethe200 said:


> This is a novel coronavirus; e.g., never seen before. So ALL studies are very preliminary, what scientists and health officials are looking for are *trends.* It will take many months - years, probably - before we'll have enough data to make definitive statements about things like "how close is too close?"


Thank you!  The novel (New) coronavirus is new to everyone, and the scientists and health officials are gaining information and giving the best advice possible at the moment for slowing the spread of COVID-19. They shouldn't be criticized for observing trends and studying more about this particular virus. I'm very forgiving if they change their positions on recommendations, at least they are making an effort to contain this pandemic and research areas that we do not have access to. We should support all the work they're doing for us and not put them down for it. Not the time to nitpick, IMO.


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## grahamg (Aug 30, 2020)

Here are a few odd facts about microbiological infections, (or what I believe are facts anyway?).

According to work done on the subject many years ago, one organism on its own is believed to be unable to start a new infection in a hosts body.

Trying to infect a hosts body experimentally without injecting the micro organisms directly, can be difficult to achieve.

Other micro organisms, for example on the surface of all our skin, help protect us from more harmful organisms you might encounter, that may harm you or enter the body via that route.

I attended a small conference where the subject of airborne infections was briefly discussed, and at the time only one person in the room was prepared to assert airborne infections were common. 
One veterinary surgeon I questioned said most infections he encountered in the animals he treated, were likely to have been infected by direct contact with infective material/body fluids, such as blood, vomit etc. There is I believe, far more of this kind of direct contact than members of the pubic might imagine.

It is believed that to remain active for any length of time outside its host, the micro organisms needs to be mixed in or amongst organic matter.

Although a great deal will be learnt about infectious diseases, how they're spread etc as a result of the current pandemic, (certainly this Covid 19 virus), I believe the "facts" I've stated above, or things I've asserted are facts, will remain to a large extent, basically true or unchallenged scientifically.


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## Butterfly (Sep 4, 2020)

SeaBreeze said:


> Thank you!  The novel (New) coronavirus is new to everyone, and the scientists and health officials are gaining information and giving the best advice possible at the moment for slowing the spread of COVID-19. They shouldn't be criticized for observing trends and studying more about this particular virus. I'm very forgiving if they change their positions on recommendations, at least they are making an effort to contain this pandemic and research areas that we do not have access to. We should support all the work they're doing for us and not put them down for it. Not the time to nitpick, IMO.



Absolutely!  All of medical progress is based on learning and finding and adapting new treatments, etc., to fight disease.  Otherwise we would still be in a world where smallpox and bubonic plague killed off zillions of people every year and antibiotics were unheard of.


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## Keesha (Sep 5, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> Absolutely!  All of medical progress is based on learning and finding and adapting new treatments, etc., to fight disease.  Otherwise we would still be in a world where smallpox and bubonic plague killed off zillions of people every year and antibiotics were unheard of.


Good point but just to be perfectly clear, antibiotics do nothing to kill viruses. They only kill bacterial infections which can be caused by viruses.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/qa/why-do-antibiotics-not-work-against-viruses


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## Butterfly (Sep 5, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Good point but just to be perfectly clear, antibiotics do nothing to kill viruses. They only kill bacterial infections which can be caused by viruses.
> 
> https://www.webmd.com/lung/qa/why-do-antibiotics-not-work-against-viruses



I was not implying that antibiotics kill viruses.  I was listing antibiotics as one of the things that wouldn't be around if science never changed it's mind about anything.   Sorry for any misunderstanding I caused.


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## Keesha (Sep 5, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> I was not implying that antibiotics kill viruses.  I was listing antibiotics as one of the things that wouldn't be around if science never changed it's mind about anything.   Sorry for any misunderstanding I caused.


No problem. I guess I’m clarifying it since there are so many people out there that go running to their doctor at the first sign of a common cold to get antibiotics which actually lower the immune system. All antibiotics do is kill bacteria. Unfortunately they aren’t BAD bacteria specific. They kill ALL bacteria which include the immune protecting kinds.


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## tbeltrans (Sep 5, 2020)

Well, the upside of everybody wearing masks is that if you need to start robbing banks to supplement your retirement income, the best a witness can say is that it was "the guy wearing a mask".

Note to self: there is always an upside if you look hard enough...

Tony


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## grahamg (Sep 5, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Good point but just to be perfectly clear, antibiotics do nothing to kill viruses. They only kill bacterial infections which can be caused by viruses.
> 
> https://www.webmd.com/lung/qa/why-do-antibiotics-not-work-against-viruses


Can I throw my twopenneth into the debate, or put forward my understanding at least.

Firstly antibiotics don't really need to kill bacteria, to be effective, (as disinfectants can kill infectious agents, in the right conditions, given enough exposure time, at the right concentrations etc.). All antibiotics need to do is "inhibit" the growth of bacteria, or inhibit the spread of bacteria, in order to be effective. Once you've achieved this level of control of the bacterial infection the bodies own defence mechanisms can more easily mop up the bacteria by various means.

The connection between bacterial infections and viral infections can become relevant when a viral infection has so weakened the bodies defences, "secondary" bacterial infections can more easily take off, and cause serious health issues. In those circumstances doctors are willing to prescribe antibiotics, helping the patient fight the secondary infection, whilst the body thus relieved, get around to fighting off the viral infection that started the bout of illness.

Hence an antibiotic prescription can assist you whilst your body is dealing with multiple infections, including viral infections, (though not directly, as I've acknowledged). I hope I haven't contradicted anyone, and assumed a lack of knowledgeknowledge that doesn't exist, or made too simp!istic an argument here(?).


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## Treacle (Sep 5, 2020)

On the BBC news it said Coronavirus  tests could be  picking up fragments of dead viruses from old infections. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54000629?at_campaign=64&#38;at_custom4=0E3C5ADC-EF4D-11EA-BBDB-F8D596E8478F&#38;at_custom3=BBC+News&#38;at_custom2=facebook_page&#38;at_medium=custom7&#38;at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&#38;fbclid=IwAR3neUXGMX5BXvrZyc2fepdsvhqoGXPSxVIDesdHQmuSZcbwWXnBeVXKTJg&#38;fbclid=IwAR0D6Evn5UXdt1iAP35dHpmECJzyxApqNKwwYEYJKjbuQC7yi38Eh476UCk&#38;fbclid=IwAR3dhlBkKqKIfCAWRfc2Z-fPRIC-o9PeRCHNILr7FjRKxwu8xygmWtJCxmk


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## Keesha (Sep 5, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Can I throw my twopenneth into the debate, or put forward my understanding at least.


Well since you asked so nicely...  


No!


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## grahamg (Sep 5, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Well since you asked so nicely...
> 
> No!
> View attachment 121217


I see, .......in the words of Ray Stevens, (in the song "They call him the streak!"),
"TOO LATE ETHEL "!


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## Nathan (Sep 5, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> May I interrupt this thread for non covid19 question?
> 
> Since @win231 mentioned street signals to indicate "Walk" or "Do NOT Walk"  when I see it's safe to cross the street with vehicles stopped, I cross the street even with "Do NOT Walk" signal. Is that jaywalking? Please tell me now before I do it again and get caught. TIA
> 
> Proceed to regular programming.


LOL, I see you are from L.A. you are truly a brave person to even be a pedestrian, much less a jaywalking one!    You won't get caught, the cops will be stuck in traffic.


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