# Ok N.Y. N.J. California and Illinois Population is decreasing



## PreciousDove (Sep 26, 2022)

Do you agree with the reasoning behind this article?
Living in Illinois all my life I really haven't noticed except for high costs and high taxes.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/ne...pc=U531&cvid=24de5a97e50943d2a1e5754563e8f9db


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## ElCastor (Sep 26, 2022)

Oops, I don't see an article, or a link to one. But ... Population growth or shrinkage depends on a country's fertility rate, or births per woman. For a country to sustain a population a fertility rate of about 2.1 births per woman is required. Here's a link to world fertility rates: 
https://worldpopulationreview.com/c...ility Rate 2022    Rank,  5.7  119 more rows 

Developed 1st World countries like the United States are below replacement, and some like Japan, Korea, Italy, and many others are way low. It's a very worrisome problem. Very!
"Tempted by the recent offer of an Italian home for just over a $1? Well, you might want to hold out for a better deal. 
Now one town in the country is offering foreigners $10,000 to move there. Another says it will even pay newcomers more than $1,000 per child to make babies."
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/italy-town-pays-people-to-move-intl/index.html


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## CarolfromTX (Oct 15, 2022)

High taxes and over regulation surely play a part.


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## Warrigal (Oct 15, 2022)

If you want to improve the fertility rate you need to offer paid maternity leave and affordable childcare. Otherwise, encourage immigration of young healthy foreigners.


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## Murrmurr (Oct 15, 2022)

I agree with the article - unemployment, extremely high rent, home prices, cost of living, and taxes. There's also the huge problem of countless homeless encampments encroaching people's yards, business properties, sidewalks, parks, and beaches, plus high crime rates, gang violence and drug addiction, and an increasingly lax and inefficient judicial system.

Basically, Cali kind of sux.


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## JustBonee (Oct 15, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> I agree with the article - unemployment, extremely high rent, home prices, cost of living, and taxes. There's also the huge problem of countless homeless encampments encroaching people's yards, business properties, sidewalks, parks, and beaches, plus high crime rates, gang violence and drug addiction, and an increasingly lax and inefficient judicial system.
> 
> Basically, Cali kind of sux.



Only problem is,  where exactly  is this Utopia that people are fleeing to ??


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## Murrmurr (Oct 15, 2022)

JustBonee said:


> Only problem is,  where exactly  is this Utopia that people are fleeing to ??


Apparently, they're just thinking anyplace else has _got_ to be better.

A couple years ago, a long-time (california) friend of my kids paid under $100K for a great looking 5 bedroom, 2-story house on 2 acres of rural Idaho. He said he'll never look back.


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## Lewkat (Oct 15, 2022)

Taxes, taxes, taxes, here in NJ and nothing in return.  Rents through the ceiling and to buy a house, you have to make millions.


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## Don M. (Oct 15, 2022)

When I read about the soaring costs, crime, homelessness, etc., that are increasing in many of our major population centers, I am glad that we live in a quiet rural Midwest area.  Even with this rampant inflation, the cost of living is still quite affordable, and the weekly police reports usually consist of little other than a couple of DUI's and petty thefts.
Living in such an area can be a bit "inconvenient", as many of the Urban facilities are limited, but if a person is in good health, and doesn't mind driving an hour occasionally to get something a bit unique, life is good.


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## ElCastor (Oct 15, 2022)

JustBonee said:


> Only problem is,  where exactly  is this Utopia that people are fleeing to ??


In the case of California, Texas and Idaho (Boise in particular) are popular destinations. San Francisco and Los Angeles are crime ridden to put it mildly, and real estate prices are through the roof.


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## OneEyedDiva (Oct 15, 2022)

I know for a fact that Jersey has high taxes and high rents. But try as they may, not as high as some places in N.Y.  For instance in Bergen County, N.J. one bedroom apartments can run from $2,025 to over $4,000. Jersey City, N.J. (Hudson County) which is really pushing the luxury rental market lists one bedrooms for $3,000 and up. Manhattan, N.Y. lists one bedroom apartments for between $3,760 and to $7,608. Apartments tend to be cheaper in southern N.J. areas.


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## Gardenlover (Oct 15, 2022)

From personal experience, I seen a lot of people from New York moving to Florida. Everything is better here, except the hurricanes. Yeah, those damn hurricanes.


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## HoneyNut (Oct 15, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Population growth or shrinkage depends on a country's fertility rate


Also depends on death rate and immigration/emigration.

I'd think we'd want to be below replacement level for a while if we want the world population to come down to a sustainable number of people.


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## ElCastor (Oct 15, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> Also depends on death rate and immigration/emigration.
> 
> I'd think we'd want to be below replacement level for a while if we want the world population to come down to a sustainable number of people.


Lowest fertility rates are to be found in the First World countries of East Asia, Western Europe and North America. Why? Because birth control is easily available, and old age income, support, and security no longer depends on large numbers of children to care for elderly parents.


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## ElCastor (Oct 15, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I know for a fact that Jersey has high taxes and high rents. But try as they may, not as high as some places in N.Y.  For instance in Bergen County, N.J. one bedroom apartments can run from $2,025 to over $4,000. Jersey City, N.J. (Hudson County) which is really pushing the luxury rental market lists one bedrooms for $3,000 and up. Manhattan, N.Y. lists one bedroom apartments for between $3,760 and to $7,608. Apartments tend to be cheaper in southern N.J. areas.


In much of San Francisco, and it’s wealthier suburbs, a condo can easily cost a million or more. For that kind of money a Californian looking to retire can buy a palace for less in large parts of Texas.


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## HoneyNut (Oct 15, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Lowest fertility rates are to be found in the First World countries of East Asia, Western Europe and North America. Why? Because birth control is easily available, and old age income, support, and security no longer depends on large numbers of children to care for elderly parents.


Probably also because of healthcare so that most children don't die so there is no need to have lots of babies.  And, for some families the expense is a bar.  And maybe the ridiculous work hours a lot of employers expect.  And perhaps the timing of modern life where a woman is older before she can afford kids and by then the urge to procreate might have dampened (not to mention the energy level not being as high) (watched a young mother have to run all the way down the hotel hallway today to catch her mischievous little one).
There are a lot of little kids and babies in this hotel, never knew how much screaming and crying little kids do!  I'm thinking when I settle down it would be much better to be in a 55+ place.


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## ElCastor (Oct 16, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> Probably also because of healthcare so that most children don't die so there is no need to have lots of babies.  And, for some families the expense is a bar.  And maybe the ridiculous work hours a lot of employers expect.  And perhaps the timing of modern life where a woman is older before she can afford kids and by then the urge to procreate might have dampened …


Of course, all those things — issues to be found in the developed world. Wasn‘t always the case. My step mother was one of 16 children born to an Oregon farm family. Would not happen today, at least not in the US or the rest of the developed world. Here is some interesting info …
https://statisticstimes.com/demographics/countries-by-fertility-rate.php


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## David777 (Oct 16, 2022)

Any San Franciscan that owns even rather ordinary past few decades city architecture residences, that decides to move to much of elsewhere, can do so with the confidence they will be rewarded with money that can purchase a much larger, functional, physical residence even in other elite human communities than they had but within a much different world while losing the continued experience of already having reached a very special unique exciting worth living in modern urban world on the edge of the Pacific Ocean.  San Francisco has amazing possibilities for some individuals at all levels of wealth and power.


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## Manatee (Nov 6, 2022)

The ones that moved to Miami found they need to take Spanish   lessons.


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