# How are you living with consequences of not planning for future?



## Mr X

Hello, folks!

Quick summary: 

I'm 55, my wife will turn 60 this year. I have worked in IT industry for 30 years - the kind of jobs with good salaries, but a DIY approach to retirement savings. Result: I have no 401, no IRA, no pension - nothing. I'm still working, making more then I ever have, but it's only a matter of time before I'm replaced by a new grad. My wife works as an aid for the school district. The pay is terrible, but insurance is good and there is a retirement plan that will pay about $400/month if she were to quit in two years, a bit more as time goes on.

We have no savings. Debt consists of a couple credit cards and an IRS payment plan - about 5K total debt. Equity in our house is between 50k - 100k, depending on who you ask (neighbor just sold his place for top dollar, so I'm figuring 70 - 100 is more realistic.) There is still an eternity left on mortgage. Monthly housing nut (mortgage, insurance, taxes) is about $1150, which is less than a decent apartment around here.

My wife has diabetes (manageable) , so health care costs will be an issue. That is why her benefits more than compensate for low pay (plus she gets summers off). Health care won't be an issue for me, as I have decided to make my unhealthy lifestyle a part of my exit strategy. I don't go for preventative tests and will let nature take it's course. We don't have kids, so it's not as selfish as it may sound.

I've read all there is to say on how to "fix" our situation and, frankly, it's no help. If I was able to keep my current job, at my current salary for 10 more years and put 30% of my gross income into an employer-matched retirement fund, then, yes, there would be hope. Unfortunately (as stated in paragraph 1) that's not realistic.

So I guess I am asking for stories from the trenches. I'd like to hear from people in my position who are little farther down the road. Did you find a way to make enough money to keep your home and downsize your lifestyle? Did you buy a trailer on a big lot in some rural local and live cheap? Did you decide to live in a van? Where still able to move back into your parent's basement?

I don't mean for this sound flippant. My wife and I have obviously put ourselves in a terrible situation, but I'd really like to find some options other than "start eating cat food now and put rest of your $ in a company sponsored IRA."


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## Aunt Bea

IMO you and your wife need to adjust your lifestyle to fit your estimated retirement income now and bank your surplus earnings over the next few years to serve as a cushion in retirement.

I would also encourage you to take care of your health because your current exit strategy may turn out to be slow and expensive.

If over the next few years it becomes clear that you can't adjust your lifestyle to your retirement income then IMO the only option is to look at semi retirement and continue working.

or you can relax and take life as it comes.







Good luck!


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## C'est Moi

Sorry, but I think as long as you are physically able, you will just have to continue to work.  Sounds bleak, but there you have it.


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## Falcon

Mr.X,   Did you think that somebody ELSE  would  do this  for you?

Good luck.  There's always welfare  & food stamps  to keep you alive.


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## Manatee

I was downsized at age 59 and that was a crash course in frugal living.  It was during a recession and I wound up with a crap job until the mortgage was paid off and I retired at 63.  I believe in "do the best you can with what you have."


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## Falcon

Good for you Manatee.   You showed it could be done.


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## Mr X

Hopefully I will be able, one day, to answer the question I posted. 

Trust me - I understand the disdain that some (many?) of you feel. It must be galling to have scrimped and saved, only to see people who never worried about such things end up landing on their feet.

Maybe my wife and I aren't typical. Yes, we wasted all of our money, but I look at how we live and realize it could be SO much simpler without being that much "different," if that makes sense. It's probably not possible to change now, with a house full of "stuff" and a regular nice paycheck. But, taking equity from current house, moving to a small town and buying something cheap - I see many things I love for under 100K - it probably wouldn't take much more than my wife's pension and social to cover the basics. I find it hard to believe that 30 years in a white collar profession leaves me only qualified to stock shelves at Dollar General - although that kind of sounds like a welcome change.

 Anyway, I'll keep waiting to hear from people that have made this transition, but I'm fine if you want to hector or vent. I know I have a lot to learn!


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## Mr X

Falcon said:


> Mr.X,   Did you think that somebody ELSE  would  do this  for you?
> 
> Good luck.  There's always welfare  & food stamps  to keep you alive.



No, I actually thought that paying taxes and into social security for 30+ years meant something. Silly me! (and don't worry, if welfare and food stamps are an option, at least I've already paid for them!)


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## Aunt Bea

I think we've all made the transition and Manatee summed it up very well!  _"Do the best you can with what you have."_


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## Mr X

Aunt Bea said:


> I think we've all made the transition and Manatee summed it up very well!  _"Do the best you can with what you have."_



Absolutely, or you wouldn't all be here. (I guess I'm part of a new wave of post-baby boomer seniors - we were never quite satisfied with the answer "...because that's just the way it is.")

Figures show that my wife and I are actually better off than the majority of people our age. Like it or not, there are millions more people just like us who aren't going to be "OK" with paying into the "system" for their entire careers, only to be called "welfare mothers," and told to go live under the nearest bridge. I suspect my questions are the tip of the iceberg that sank the ship, above..


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## ronaldj

like was said do the best with what you have, you are like so many other working stiffs, pay off debt, save all you can, learn to live on what you have. it is not having what you want its wanting what you have.


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## C'est Moi

Mr X said:


> No, I actually thought that paying taxes and into social security for 30+ years meant something. Silly me! (and don't worry, if welfare and food stamps are an option, at least I've already paid for them!)



Paying taxes into SS for 30 years means exactly the same for you as for anyone else; you will be eligible to receive a benefit according to the schedule of earnings.    

And FYI, many of us here are the same ages as you and your wife.


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## Mr X

ronaldj said:


> ... it is not having what you want its wanting what you have.



So true. When we were recovering from the fallout of the crash (we stopped paying credit cards and eventually got sued - repeatedly) someone on a forum dedicated to fighting such matters said "it sounds like you need to simplify your life." Truer - and more valuable - words were rarely spoken.

After reading responses in this thread, I found myself talking to my wife and having an anxiety attack. Then a moment of clarity struck - this isn't a "retirement" issue: I am more than willing to own the fact that my poor planning means I probably won't be playing golf everyday when (if) I turn 72. 

What I have a problem with is that NOBODY said anything about life ending at 55. It looks like this scare has done us good - my wife is looking at properties with an eye toward affordability versus curb appeal, and I am going make a concerted effort to stay in my chosen field until at least 62. I probably won't make same $, but I'll be a better deal than some young whippersnapper...


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## C'est Moi

Mr X said:


> Absolutely, or you wouldn't all be here. (I guess I'm part of a new wave of post-baby boomer seniors - we were never quite satisfied with the answer "...because that's just the way it is.")
> 
> Figures show that my wife and I are actually better off than the majority of people our age. *Like it or not, there are millions more people just like us who aren't going to be "OK" with paying into the "system" for their entire careers, only to be called "welfare mothers," and told to go live under the nearest bridge*. I suspect my questions are the tip of the iceberg that sank the ship, above..



I guess I'm not understanding what you mean by this.   Are you expecting some sort of bail-out because you failed to plan?   Everyone I know has paid into the system for their entire working life and I don't know of anyone who has been called a welfare mother or told to live under a bridge.   You will be entitled to benefits according to your earnings, just like everyone else.   

Work for as long as you can, and save as much as you can.   There is no magic.


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## Don M.

I think most retirees fall into one of two categories.....1, being those who recognized that they too would some day grow old and retire, and managed their finances accordingly....and 2, those who lived only for "today", and gave little thought to what the future might hold.

I am often amazed at some of the reports I read about how little some Seniors have managed to set aside for their retirements.


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## hearlady

Start with a strict budget. Maybe not cat food but beans and rice.
Max your 401k as allowed by IRS for your age as this is free money from your employer.
Start a Roth  IRA with max contributions for both you and your wife.
This should save you over $100,000 in the next 5 years.
Stop living beyond your means now and put away as much as possible.
Continue to look for a cheaper place to live.
Yesterday was the past. Begin your future. Good Luck.
If you have expensive cars sell them and buy down.


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## hearlady

Even though credit card debt is low pay that first and tear them up. If you need credit go to a prepaid card.
Sorry no one taught you about realities of life but it's no excuse as you know.
Start listening to the Dave Ramsey show. He will have no sympathy but tells it like it is and will be helpful. You need a plan.......NOW.


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## treeguy64

Sell your house full of stuff and your house, now.  Downsize, radically, and actually write a budget.  Stick to it, come Hell or high water.  Shred your credit cards.  I planned ahead from the time I was in my twenties.  I'm amazed how so many smart folks, earning very big bucks, live so high on the hog, only to be in miserable shape, financially (often physically, too) once they reach their fifties, and beyond, for lack of even a little foresight. Forget your pity party.  Take action, now, and you should be OK in the near future, although you won't be living the lifestyle that got you into this predicament, in the first place.  That'll be good for you, in the long run.


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## Buckeye

{shrug} OP, do you have any children??  My plan is to move in with my son and DIL when I run out of money.  I supported him for 18 years, now it's time for pay back. 

 Which reminds me, do any of you have a pickup truck that I can borrow next weekend??


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## Aunt Bea

Hoot N Annie said:


> {shrug} OP, do you have any children??  My plan is to move in with my son and DIL when I run out of money.  I supported him for 18 years, now it's time for pay back.
> 
> *Which reminds me, do any of you have a pickup truck that I can borrow next weekend??*



No problem, I'll look good driving that new Caddy!!!


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## ClassicRockr

For me, I never once thought about my future and, due to my low job hourly salaries, I basically couldn't save any money if I wanted to. Working in warehousing, ship/rec and stockroom definitely doesn't pay much, unless it's for a big/major company, of which I never worked for. I pretty much lived week-to-week on what I made. Only two jobs I had that I stayed for more than a year and each one I stayed for 4 years. I don't agree with people, like my brother, who retired from the state of PA Heavy Equipment Dept. after some 30 years and gets a darn good pension, "stay on the job, no matter what, and get a good pension (or today, a good 401K). That's all fine and dandy if a person really likes there job and boss, the company doesn't shut down or the person gets laid off. 

My wife has done much better than I, but then again, she has two AA Degree's and a Bachelor's in Business/Accounting. Her salaries were much, much higher than mine ever was........even before I met her. Like myself, she has switched jobs quite a bit......quitting and being laid off, BUT, her salaries have allowed her to save. Unfortunately, when she quits her existing job next year, so we can move, we will both only be on SS and savings. Right now, we are living quite nicely, due to her SS, job salary and my SS.


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## Gary O'

I just gotta step in and say

GREAT THREAD!

Many good thoughts
great advice 

Oh, and Mr X, yer thoughts are spot on, no gloss, lucid

you got this


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## Knight

Mr X wrote


Quote


"I have worked in IT industry for 30 years - the kind of jobs with good salaries" 
"I have no 401, no IRA, no pension - nothing. I'm still working, making more then I ever have,"


Well written and pretty obvious access to the internet to look up a ton of info on retirement cost & advice. 


My only recommendation would be to plan a day out with his wife to visit homeless shelters, talk to people pan handling that are homeless living in the street. Get a real sense of what they could face. Nothing like a dose of reality of having little to live on.


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## Mr X

C'est Moi said:


> I guess I'm not understanding what you mean by this.   Are you expecting some sort of bail-out because you failed to plan?   Everyone I know has paid into the system for their entire working life and I don't know of anyone who has been called a welfare mother or told to live under a bridge.   *You will be entitled to benefits according to your earnings, just like everyone else.
> *
> Work for as long as you can, and save as much as you can.   There is no magic.



As I said earlier, I totally own the fact that I won't be playing golf everyday at 72 due to my lack of planning. I also have no problem making it to 62 and being set up to live off my benefits. My concern is the constant talk about social security "going away." 

I see people living on the street. I know people from that world. They all share a toxic combination of drug addiction and mental illness. But, the very real fact is that there are millions of people, like me - normal, working law abiding folks - who planned on living off social security. Ever try picturing what it would look like if this group is suddenly denied those benefits? I'd suggest watching a few episodes of "The Walking Dead" to get an idea.

Again, it sounds like this is a conversation that needed starting - thank you to everyone that is taking part!


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## C'est Moi

I think too many people have the mistaken impression that Social Security is sufficient to provide a sole means of support in one's retirement years.   They either didn't or couldn't take responsibility for saving additional funds for their retirement.   

It has been widely discussed for several years that Social Security is in trouble.   I doubt that the program will ever be discontinued... but we will undoubtedly see major changes happening as more people retire and begin collecting benefits.   I imagine there will be means-testing instituted at some point to scale down payout to more affluent retirees.   I think that sucks because they are the ones who likely paid the most into the tax but could potentially see their benefits reduced.


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## ClassicRockr

C'est Moi said:


> I think too many people have the mistaken impression that Social Security is sufficient to provide a sole means of support in one's retirement years.   They either didn't or couldn't take responsibility for saving additional funds for their retirement.
> 
> It has been widely discussed for several years that Social Security is in trouble.   I doubt that the program will ever be discontinued... but we will undoubtedly see major changes happening as more people retire and begin collecting benefits.   I imagine there will be means-testing instituted at some point to scale down payout to more affluent retirees.   I think that sucks because they are the ones who likely paid the most into the tax but could potentially see their benefits reduced.



Your are absolutely right, about not being able to save. If I would've continued with my college education, like my wife did, I would have made a better salary working in Purchasing and/or Inventory Control. I was able to work those two areas later in my life, but didn't get the salary I would've with a college degree. The highest salary I ever made was $14.50 per hr. and that was after I met my wife and we moved to Colorado. I was 52 years old then. It's almost embarrassing to me that that is all I made during my working career. 

When I went to collect my Early Retirement SS at 62, I was told straight up "Social Security was never meant to live on." But, because I was having an extremely hard time finding a job in Purchasing and/or Inventory Management, after we moved from Colorado, when I turned 62, wife and I decided that I should apply for my SS. Actually, I don't know how many Seniors who are now 70 and are working a full-time descent paying job, PLUS getting full SS, but my wife is. Her SS sure makes our life easier.

We know two men that get a darn good Pension and also collect full SS. Some folks would say, "Sure must be nice".


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## Robusta

I have a pension a 401k and SS.
My wife has a 401k,a pension and will have SS.
I stressed every day of my working life over retirement.  We put away the maximum in our 401. We lived well,but not extravagantly.
I worked for the government. 6 years for DOE,10 years for the DoD. The base I worked at was caught in a BRAC and shutdown, I then transferred to the Post Office.
!8 years I hated every second of that job, everyone associated with it and everthing about it.  The only thing it had going for it was a decent blue collar salary and a continuation of my seniority and benefits.

I regularly scream at my children and grands when they quit a job or not take one because it isn't what they want.  Bullshit jobs ain't to like, jobs are to put food on the table.

We are not rich by any means, but We are not going to worry about eating cat food.


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## Seeker

Cut the credit cards up NOW.  .If you don’t have the cash learn how to do without it. Cut every thing you possibly can..Don’t think about your bills as if ..I can pay that this month so I’m good ,Think about if you cut that bill out how much you can save in a year. For instance a 9.99 Netflix bill is $119.88 a year. This may sound petty but add a few more to it and you will see that it adds up quick…




> Health care won't be an issue for me, as I have decided to make my unhealthy lifestyle a part of my exit strategy.




I kinda like your thinking on this one…




We didn’t have a retirement plan either but we are blessed to have everything we own paid for. My husband will only start drawing SS in May of this year but we have lived a very frugal life for the last 20 years. You can do it don’t despair. Don’t eat cat food but do learn to eat less expensive and more healthy. It will take work. You nailed it on the downsize and that entails lots of areas.


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## Mr X

Seeker said:


> I kinda like your thinking on this one…



My wife had a blood infection and needed an IV for awhile to really clean things out. I went to place to learn how to change bag, irrigate PIC line, etc. I was talking to the nurse (he was outside smoking) and somehow we got on to the subject of lifestyle. He said "the biggest - and most cruel - joke is that all the people who don't drink, don't smoke, eat right and exercise are the ones that eventually end up in one of my chairs taking Chemo." I'll never forget that.


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## treeguy64

Mr X said:


> My wife had a blood infection and needed an IV for awhile to really clean things out. I went to place to learn how to change bag, irrigate PIC line, etc. I was talking to the nurse (he was outside smoking) and somehow we got on to the subject of lifestyle. He said "the biggest - and most cruel - joke is that all the people who don't drink, don't smoke, eat right and exercise are the ones that eventually end up in one of my chairs taking Chemo." I'll never forget that.


  BAH!  Total nonsense, for the most part, said by a nurse, as he smoked, the stupidest thing one can do for one's health!  Throw in that he's a "health professional," and I'd wager that his intelligence level is not exactly off the high end of the chart!  Anything he'd ever say, to me, would be quickly forgotten!


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## NewRetire18

Mr X said:


> Hello, folks!
> 
> Quick summary:
> 
> I'm 55, my wife will turn 60 this year. I have worked in IT industry for 30 years - the kind of jobs with good salaries, but a DIY approach to retirement savings. Result: I have no 401, no IRA, no pension - nothing. I'm still working, making more then I ever have, but it's only a matter of time before I'm replaced by a new grad. My wife works as an aid for the school district. The pay is terrible, but insurance is good and there is a retirement plan that will pay about $400/month if she were to quit in two years, a bit more as time goes on.
> 
> We have no savings. Debt consists of a couple credit cards and an IRS payment plan - about 5K total debt. Equity in our house is between 50k - 100k, depending on who you ask (neighbor just sold his place for top dollar, so I'm figuring 70 - 100 is more realistic.) There is still an eternity left on mortgage. Monthly housing nut (mortgage, insurance, taxes) is about $1150, which is less than a decent apartment around here.
> 
> My wife has diabetes (manageable) , so health care costs will be an issue. That is why her benefits more than compensate for low pay (plus she gets summers off). Health care won't be an issue for me, as I have decided to make my unhealthy lifestyle a part of my exit strategy. I don't go for preventative tests and will let nature take it's course. We don't have kids, so it's not as selfish as it may sound.
> 
> I've read all there is to say on how to "fix" our situation and, frankly, it's no help. If I was able to keep my current job, at my current salary for 10 more years and put 30% of my gross income into an employer-matched retirement fund, then, yes, there would be hope. Unfortunately (as stated in paragraph 1) that's not realistic.
> 
> So I guess I am asking for stories from the trenches. I'd like to hear from people in my position who are little farther down the road. Did you find a way to make enough money to keep your home and downsize your lifestyle? Did you buy a trailer on a big lot in some rural local and live cheap? Did you decide to live in a van? Where still able to move back into your parent's basement?
> 
> I don't mean for this sound flippant. My wife and I have obviously put ourselves in a terrible situation, but I'd really like to find some options other than "start eating cat food now and put rest of your $ in a company sponsored IRA."



I was in almost *exactly* the same spot at* age 59* (due to a lot of things both within, and outside of my control), but ended up with a great job and pulled together a nest egg + SS that will sustain us. Just retired (at age 65), and everything looks good. It can be done at your age; just change your focus and you will do OK!


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## OneEyedDiva

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO you and your wife need to adjust your lifestyle to fit your estimated retirement income now and bank your surplus earnings over the next few years to serve as a cushion in retirement.
> 
> Welcome Mr. X. I would also encourage you to take care of your health because your current exit strategy may turn out to be slow and expensive.
> 
> If over the next few years it becomes clear that you can't adjust your lifestyle to your retirement income then IMO the only option is to look at semi retirement and continue working.
> 
> or you can relax and take life as it comes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck!



I think Aunt Bea has given very good advice. Although I wasn't in the situation you're in, when I knew I'd be retiring within a year, I started living off what my projected retirement income (pension) would be. I had 11 years to go to be able to collect social security. But my housing costs were much less than yours (own a co-op apartment) and I have a great insurance retiree plan. These factors make a huge difference. You and your wife need to make a formal budget, either on paper or make a spreadsheet online. Cut every last unnecessary expense and put the savings into an emergency fund. Believe me, I know people who say they are poor, don't have enough money left over at the end of the month, yet they spend money on wants, rather than needs. Don't think that if you only have a little to save, it's not worth it. I have a friend who blew through his money during most of his life. He finally saw the light and now at age 71 is still working. He saw the error of his ways a few years back and started saving as much as he could. 

I agree that your stay unhealthy plan may just backfire and make your financial situation even worse by way of excessive medical/hospital bills. That would be unfair to your wife if she winds up being the one who has to pay for them. 65 is the "normal" retirement age anyway so I don't see why you couldn't work (at something) until at least that age. It's never too late to start. I hope you're able to do what's necessary so you and your wife ill not be living in abject poverty.


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## ClassicRockr

We KNOW our lifestyle will change, once my wife quits her job and we move, but will have to cope with it and do our best. Nothing else we can do. We won't have two vehicles, going out to eat nearly as much or have the medical coverage we do now. Oh, for the first year or two, we should do ok, and still enjoy some things we do now,
 with savings and SS, but after that.

Hopefully, we will be able to have our boat shipped to wherever we move to, or might have to sell and possibly buy one where we go. But, having a boat in Colorado or Wyoming is much, much cheaper than here. 

Four things we really enjoy still.........boating, fishing, going to rodeo's and going to the range for target shooting. Don't like the fishing here and got rid of all our saltwater gear. Rodeo is almost non-existent here. 

We definitely won't get rid of our credit cards, but my wife did send some to a Debt Company that we pay monthly to get paid off. We have a trip coming up this summer that will take a nice "chuck of change" to make, but we will be checking out the area/areas that we are looking at to move to. 

I'm not totally against a person staying on a job for 25, 30 or 40 years, but it definitely should be a special job. Special meaning.......a person gets along very well with management, doesn't have to put in a ton of hours (so they can spend some quality time with their wife/husband/family) and a few other things. A person who hasn't got a college degree and/or that much, if any, experience, generally has to take any job offered. As for wife and I, we've only applied for jobs we know and have done.


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## Mr X

NewRetire18 said:


> I was in almost *exactly* the same spot at* age 59* (due to a lot of things both within, and outside of my control), but ended up with a great job and pulled together a nest egg + SS that will sustain us. Just retired (at age 65), and everything looks good. It can be done at your age; just change your focus and you will do OK!



Awesome - nice to hear a success story!

As for the common theme of implementing a near-poverty lifestyle now, in order to save for an uncertain future - I suspect that comes naturally to some people. 25 years ago I worked with a group of people that, like me, really enjoyed going out to lunch everyday. We'd often go the the buffet at the hotel next to our office. I remember one guy always shaking his head and asking "how can you guys go out for those eight dollar lunches?" He'd then return to his desk and his stale, brown bag sandwich from home. I'm sure he's loaded now - he may even be posting in this thread.

I can't live that way, so other things will have to go, but that's OK. My wife and I have taken eating out to a farcical extreme - it's totally unnecessary, insanely expensive and rarely satisfying. She buys groceries that get tossed because we never eat at home. That is something we can massively curtail, and be better for it. Next weekend we are heading up to a small town to look at properties - might make sense to buy one now, fix it up over time, and, maybe not have to sell this place and use it for rental income (even with a management company handling details we'd make another $500/month). We'll never have another car payment, and that's OK, as well. We had our time with new BMWs and all that did was cost us our house and force us to start over in the Barrio.

When looked at with perspective, our spending really was a disease - our day-to-day life is actually very simple and affordable.


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## Mr X

ClassicRockr said:


> We KNOW our lifestyle will change, once my wife quits her job and we move, but will have to cope with it and do our best.



Do you make any money playing? I'm amazed at how many guys in Phoenix are able to make a living - houses, decent cars - just by playing music around town.


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## ClassicRockr

Mr X said:


> Do you make any money playing? I'm amazed at how many guys in Phoenix are able to make a living - houses, decent cars - just by playing music around town.



Haven't played for years upon years now. I do "fake" playing of drums sometimes, like when I hear Wipe Out by the Surfaris, but that's it. Yep, just thinking about those "Good Old Days" when I was in the Navy and played in a band onboard ship. When at sea on a Sunday, we'd set up on the Fantail (stern) and play for a couple of hours. The Captain would slow the ship down so we wouldn't go overboard.


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## Mr X

ClassicRockr said:


> The Captain would slow the ship down so we wouldn't go overboard.



Haaaa - sweet!


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## KingsX

Don M. said:


> I think most retirees fall into one of two categories.....1, being those who recognized that they too would some day grow old and retire, and managed their finances accordingly....and 2, those who lived only for "today", and gave little thought to what the future might hold.
> 
> I am often amazed at some of the reports I read about how little some Seniors have managed to set aside for their retirements.




When I was a child my favorite puzzle board was a scene from Aesop's fable, the grasshopper and the ants.
In the scene the grasshopper was laid  back playing his fiddle while the ants were busy working putting away
food for winter.  Even as a young child,  I understood the moral of that story.

http://read.gov/aesop/052.html


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## mathjak107

ClassicRockr said:


> Haven't played for years upon years now. I do "fake" playing of drums sometimes, like when I hear Wipe Out by the Surfaris, but that's it. Yep, just thinking about those "Good Old Days" when I was in the Navy and played in a band onboard ship. When at sea on a Sunday, we'd set up on the Fantail (stern) and play for a couple of hours. The Captain would slow the ship down so we wouldn't go overboard.


after 37 years away from my drums i got back in to them in retirement . been two years coming back and i am finally at a level i am happy with . i am in the studio now at least once a week . i practice at home every single day . 

i was a pro drummer decades ago , hated the business and gave up drumming . how i never picked up sticks is beyond me . from the instant i did again i have not put them down for more than a day .

my dad was a pro drummer too ,  chic arnold .


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## Mr X

mathjak107 said:


> from the instant i did again i have not put them down for more than a day .
> 
> .



God bless you. It's a tough slog, but I feel so good that I'm not alone.


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## ClassicRockr

mathjak107 said:


> after 37 years away from my drums i got back in to them in retirement . been two years coming back and i am finally at a level i am happy with . i am in the studio now at least once a week . i practice at home every single day .
> 
> i was a pro drummer decades ago , hated the business and gave up drumming . how i never picked up sticks is beyond me . from the instant i did again i have not put them down for more than a day .
> 
> my dad was a pro drummer too ,  chic arnold .



Oh, I could probably still do some Deep Purple, Wipe Out, Styx, Steppenwolf and other songs on a good set of Ludwig or Pear drums, but with a past rotator cuff surgery on each shoulder........don’t want to mess up the shoulders again. 

Did buy a good pair of drum sticks a year ago, to “tap” around with.


----------



## Mr X

Don M. said:


> I think most retirees fall into one of two categories.....1, being those who recognized that they too would some day grow old and retire, and managed their finances accordingly....and 2, those who lived only for "today", and gave little thought to what the future might hold.
> 
> I am often amazed at some of the reports I read about how little some Seniors have managed to set aside for their retirements.



This is true. I know those in both categories. I don't think either group will ever understand each other. Just as some lived a frugal life, planning for a home on a golf course, or an awesome motor home, others lived while they could, with no expectation of, or desire to live the high life at 80.

Those (myself included) in the latter category ALL expected to carve out an existence around social security. I've done the math - if my benefits are there in seven years, my wife and I will be fine. If not, it doesn't much matter as the world will be a very different place than anyone expected.


----------



## C'est Moi

Some of us actually lived the way we wanted, had the things we wanted, and were still able to save for our retirement.   What a concept.


----------



## KingsX

C'est Moi said:


> Some of us actually lived the way we wanted, had the things we wanted, and were still able to save for our retirement.   What a concept.




That describes me too.  Others might say I deprived myself to save for the future.
But I've lived my preferred lifestyle because it is my nature to be frugal. 

Now that I'm retired and have enough money to do as I like... what I like to do is
my normal thrifty lifestyle. So even in retirement my nest egg keeps increasing.


----------



## Falcon

This whole thread reminds me of the old fable:  "The Ant &  the  Grasshopper."


----------



## Don M.

C'est Moi said:


> Some of us actually lived the way we wanted, had the things we wanted, and were still able to save for our retirement.   What a concept.



For us, the transition to "Saving" was pretty easy.  We had two daughters that we were spending thousands of dollars a year on to raise them, and when they became adults, and went out on their own, we got serious about saving.  At about that same time, 401K's became available, so we just moved the "children" money into a good 401K, and that worked out quite well.  We saw several people, in the same position, who, when the kids left home, bought fancy houses and cars, and started taking lavish vacations, etc., with their "extra" money.  Looking back, I'm glad we chose the route we took.  

In the majority of cases I've seen, where Seniors are now having to live on minimum financial resources, most of them seem to either have ongoing health problems, or they went through a nasty divorce, in their earlier years.  Divorce, IMO, is a curse that can easily leave both parties "scrambling" for their futures.


----------



## Mr X

Don M. said:


> In the majority of cases I've seen, where Seniors are now having to live on minimum financial resources, most of them seem to either have ongoing health problems, or they went through a nasty divorce, in their earlier years. .



It's going to be interesting to see how this shakes out, as we are on the verge of seeing millions of new "retirees" that grew up without luxuries like a pension, coming of age with no savings. Ants ants grasshoppers aren't going to help, and there are only so many "greeter" jobs at Walmart.


----------



## KingsX

Falcon said:


> This whole thread reminds me of the old fable:  "The Ant &  the  Grasshopper."




https://www.seniorforums.com/showth...planning-for-future/page3?p=771087#post771087


----------



## Don M.

Mr X said:


> It's going to be interesting to see how this shakes out, as we are on the verge of seeing millions of new "retirees" that grew up without luxuries like a pension, coming of age with no savings. Ants ants grasshoppers aren't going to help, and there are only so many "greeter" jobs at Walmart.



The next decade, or so, is going to "redefine" retirement.   Middle Class wages haven't improved much in the past 20 years, only about 15% of companies offer defined pension plans, anymore, and millions of those nearing retirement have little or nothing saved.  Social Security and Medicare are quickly reaching the point where benefits will most likely be reduced.  Things are Not looking very good for many of our Seniors in coming years.  The disparity of wealth is rapidly dividing this nation into the "Haves" and "Have Nots".  I don't know where all this is going to lead us, but I think the latter half of the 20th century will prove to be the Peak of this nations lifestyles and living standards for many of our people.


----------



## KingsX

Don M. said:


> The next decade, or so, is going to "redefine" retirement.   Middle Class wages haven't improved much in the past 20 years, only about 15% of companies offer defined pension plans, anymore, and millions of those nearing retirement have little or nothing saved.  Social Security and Medicare are quickly reaching the point where benefits will most likely be reduced.  Things are Not looking very good for many of our Seniors in coming years.  The disparity of wealth is rapidly dividing this nation into the "Haves" and "Have Nots".  I don't know where all this is going to lead us, but I think the latter half of the 20th century will prove to be the Peak of this nations lifestyles and living standards for many of our people.




No empire lasts forever... I date the height of the American empire as 1969.

There's a wise old saying:  "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

So here is a history lesson:

Leading up to the fall of ancient Rome, much of what was consumed by Romans was imported. Roman citizens lived in luxury and reveled in degeneracy while the  Roman government entertained them with bread and circuses.

As J V Nash wrote in Henry Ford’s “Dearborn Independent” magazine in 1921:

” So agriculture, industry and trade were abandoned. The products of the whole known world streamed daily along the great Roman roads into the Imperial City, which sent back nothing in return but carts loaded with dung. ”


Here is another clue... when the gates are willingly opened to the barbarians, it's the end of empire.

.


----------



## Aunt Bea

Falcon said:


> This whole thread reminds me of the old fable:  "The Ant &  the  Grasshopper."









These days we live in a world where the hard working ants take care of the grasshoppers instead of turning them away from the door when winter comes.


----------



## C'est Moi

Aunt Bea said:


> These days we live in a world where the hard working ants take care of the grasshoppers instead of turning them away from the door when winter comes.



As one of those "ants," I'm none too pleased about that.


----------



## Aunt Bea

C'est Moi said:


> As one of those "ants," I'm none too pleased about that.



I agree, I wish I knew the answer.

I really don't want to live in a world where I have to step over frozen grasshoppers lying on the sidewalk.


----------



## Don M.

KingsX said:


> No empire lasts forever... I date the height of the American empire as 1969.There's a wise old saying:  "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."So here is a history lesson:
> Leading up to the fall of ancient Rome, much of what was consumed by Romans was imported. Roman citizens lived in luxury and reveled in degeneracy while the  Roman government entertained them with bread and circuses.
> As J V Nash wrote in Henry Ford’s “Dearborn Independent” magazine in 1921:  ” So agriculture, industry and trade were abandoned. The products of the whole known world streamed daily along the great Roman roads into the Imperial City, which sent back nothing in return but carts loaded with dung. ”Here is another clue... when the gates are willingly opened to the barbarians, it's the end of empire..



Interesting that you should mention the Roman Empire.  I, too, often reflect on the Romans, and how closely our nation is going down the same path.  The Primary difference is that while it took the Romans almost 500 years to destroy themselves.....with technology, etc., we seem to be going down the same road much much faster.  I'm old enough that I probably won't see the collapse, but I worry about the world my kids, grandkids, and beyond will be living in.


----------



## Mr X

Don M. said:


> Interesting that you should mention the Roman Empire.  I, too, often reflect on the Romans, and how closely our nation is going down the same path.  The Primary difference is that while it took the Romans almost 500 years to destroy themselves.....with technology, etc., we seem to be going down the same road much much faster.  I'm old enough that I probably won't see the collapse, but I worry about the world my kids, grandkids, and beyond will be living in.



The genesis of our current situation can be found in history, but about a 1000 years after the Romans. The Black Death, circa 1350 A.D, wiped out half of the European population. The losses had lesser effect on the nobility (what we today call the "Super Rich," or "One Percenters.") Once the plague subsided there were less people to do the day-to-day work required in those days. This led directly to the creation of what we call the "middle class." The Plutocracy has spent the last 650 years trying to put the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube. Today we are seeing the results of that effort.


----------



## Don M.

Mr X said:


> The genesis of our current situation can be found in history, but about a 1000 years after the Romans. The Black Death, circa 1350 A.D, wiped out half of the European population. The losses had lesser effect on the nobility (what we today call the "Super Rich," or "One Percenters.") Once the plague subsided there were less people to do the day-to-day work required in those days. This led directly to the creation of what we call the "middle class." The Plutocracy has spent the last 650 years trying to put the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube. Today we are seeing the results of that effort.



Yes, a close look at human history shows numerous examples of the rich taking advantage of the masses.  There are several indicators showing another such cycle forming.  The vast majority of personal wealth is in the hands of the upper 1 or 2%, while millions here are fully dependent upon the government to "survive".  If one looks at the global populations, well over half probably live well below our poverty "standards".  This trend shows no signs of abating, and it is just a question of time before we see a major crisis erupting, as a result.  If/when the Middle Class becomes almost non-existent, the rich are going to have to hire a personal army to protect themselves.


----------



## Mr X

Don M. said:


> Yes, a close look at human history shows numerous examples of the rich taking advantage of the masses.  There are several indicators showing another such cycle forming.  The vast majority of personal wealth is in the hands of the upper 1 or 2%, while millions here are fully dependent upon the government to "survive".  If one looks at the global populations, well over half probably live well below our poverty "standards".  This trend shows no signs of abating, and it is just a question of time before we see a major crisis erupting, as a result.  If/when the Middle Class becomes almost non-existent, the rich are going to have to hire a personal army to protect themselves.



Exactly. I see signs of a "plan" already in progress: Suicide rate is up by a pretty large margin, with no coverage. I live in a "law and order" state, which is a joke because "assault" is treated like a traffic warning. The numbing of larger numbers with legalized pot.

It's like the masses are slowly being guided to a place where they will kill themselves off. 

..and have you noticed the tendency of the rich to start eating these goofy "Tom Brady" diets? Is it really for "health," or is because these diets consist entirely of things that can be grown and harvested by machines in walled compounds? Getting off topic, but it seems like quite a few dots are connecting.

Back to reality, we are scheduled to visit some rural properties this weekend- very interested to compare actual properties to the ads!


----------



## mathjak107

Don M. said:


> For us, the transition to "Saving" was pretty easy.  We had two daughters that we were spending thousands of dollars a year on to raise them, and when they became adults, and went out on their own, we got serious about saving.  At about that same time, 401K's became available, so we just moved the "children" money into a good 401K, and that worked out quite well.  We saw several people, in the same position, who, when the kids left home, bought fancy houses and cars, and started taking lavish vacations, etc., with their "extra" money.  Looking back, I'm glad we chose the route we took.
> 
> In the majority of cases I've seen, where Seniors are now having to live on minimum financial resources, most of them seem to either have ongoing health problems, or they went through a nasty divorce, in their earlier years.  Divorce, IMO, is a curse that can easily leave both parties "scrambling" for their futures.




the big 3 get almost all of us at some point in our lives .

divorce-illness-job loss .

very few of us escape  at least one of them .

but the difference between us is not the event . it is generally the planning and choices we made over a lifetime leading up to the event that gets us .

it is  generally going to be that those with a history of poor choices and bad decisions along the way are those who are going to be  the ones to have one of the big 3 do them in . then they blame the event .

there are exceptions , but i view it like losing weight . very few can't lose weight because of physical reasons . most just can't do it because they have to eat less and move more . but they will just keep complaining about the fact they can't lose weight .


----------



## ClassicRockr

mathjak107 said:


> the big 3 get almost all of us at some point in our lives .
> 
> divorce-illness-job loss .
> 
> very few of us escape  at least one of them .
> 
> but the difference between us is not the event . it is generally the planning and choices we made over a lifetime leading up to the event that gets us .
> 
> it is  generally going to be that those with a history of poor choices and bad decisions along the way are those who are going to be  the ones to have one of the big 3 do them in . then they blame the event .
> 
> there are exceptions , but i view it like losing weight . very few can't lose weight because of physical reasons . most just can't do it because they have to eat less and move more . but they will just keep complaining about the fact they can't lose weight .



Yes, those "Big 3"!! But then again, there are those, like myself earlier in life, that didn't make a high enough salary to save anything. But, again, my fault, nobody else's. My wife was the opposite. She knew that just having an AA Degree wasn't going to be enough to get a nice salary in Accounting, so she went for her Bachelors. Had to get School Loans, of which she was still paying off when I met her, but they got paid off.

Then, there are the folks, at a younger age, that will save for a trip to Disney World or somewhere else...........but, not for their future. Or, they buy a nice house, nice new vehicle, perhaps a ski boat or whatever. Nice salary, but want to use it on the "good life", not the future. A lot of young folks don't think they will live long enough to see their Senior years. I hoped I would, but my wife had some doubts about herself.


----------



## Aunt Bea

ClassicRockr said:


> Then, there are the folks, at a younger age, that will save for a trip to Disney World or somewhere else...........but, not for their future. Or, they buy a nice house, nice new vehicle, perhaps a ski boat or whatever. Nice salary, but want to use it on the "good life", not the future.



I have no quarrel with those folks as long as they own their decisions and don't expect the government or others to pick up the slack when they get old.

I've known a few people who have lived, played and worked their entire lives and are very happy with the decisions that they have made.  That is probably the way all of us were originally intended to live.  I think that retirement is a fairly new concept in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Don M.

mathjak107 said:


> the big 3 get almost all of us at some point in our lives .divorce-illness-job loss .it is  generally going to be that those with a history of poor choices and bad decisions along the way are those who are going to be  the ones to have one of the big 3 do them in . then they blame the event .



Yup....Excuses are like Rectums....Everybody has one.


----------



## Mr X

Aunt Bea said:


> I have no quarrel with those folks as long as they own their decisions and don't expect the government or others to pick up the slack when they get old.
> .



Just give me the social security and medicare that I paid into and we will all be happy!


----------



## Aunt Bea

Mr X said:


> Just give me the social security and medicare that I paid into and we will all be happy!



I'm in complete agreement with you on that!


----------



## ClassicRockr

Mr X said:


> Just give me the social security and medicare that I paid into and we will all be happy!



Yes, totally agree.


----------



## Seeker

Aunt Bea said:


> I'm in complete agreement with you on that!




Ditto..................


----------



## C'est Moi

I think the biggest thing we Boomers have going for us is that we are currently the single largest voting block thanks to our sheer numbers.   Politicians aren't going to be pushing any changes to current programs unless they are ready to be out of office.   I am most concerned that they will institute means-testing at some point but I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what happens.


----------



## retiredtraveler

> Just give me the social security and medicare that I paid into and we will all be happy!



Then you will run out of benes. On average, you'll use at least 30% more in Medicare than you paid, and 60% more in SS than paid in (for married couples). The percentages are less for singles.


----------



## C'est Moi

retiredtraveler said:


> Then you will run out of benes. On average, you'll use at least 30% more in Medicare than you paid, and 60% more in SS than paid in (for married couples). The percentages are less for singles.



Heaven forbid the government reduce other out-of-control spending on foreign aid and other B.S. to shore up SS.

If I hadn't been FORCED to contribute to SS I could have invested that money and probably made it last as long as necessary.   Unfortunately I had no voice in the matter.


----------



## mathjak107

C'est Moi said:


> Heaven forbid the government reduce other out-of-control spending on foreign aid and other B.S. to shore up SS.
> 
> If I hadn't been FORCED to contribute to SS I could have invested that money and probably made it last as long as necessary.   Unfortunately I had no voice in the matter.



the problem is ssdi is draining social security retirement . since 2000 ssdi has become the new unemployment insurance .  the ranks of those who manage to get on ssdi who really should not be is insane . billions had to be diverted from ss retirement to refill ssdi when it could not make payments .


----------



## Don M.

mathjak107 said:


> the problem is ssdi is draining social security retirement . since 2000 ssdi has become the new unemployment insurance .  the ranks of those who manage to get on ssdi who really should not be is insane . billions had to be diverted from ss retirement to refill ssdi when it could not make payments .



Yup...SSDI is turning into a major Scam.  In our area, there are constant TV ads, and numerous billboards from unscrupulous Lawyers promising to get anyone with any minor issues on SSDI.  That is becoming a real drain on SS.  Plus, I am a classic example of the Other major problem...we are living too long.  I know what I paid in to SS during my working career, and I signed up for SS as soon as I became eligible, and the wife signed up for spousal benefits when she became eligible.  We have already received at least 3 times what I paid in, and if we live as long as our parents...that number may reach 7 or 8 times.  Yet, the SS withholding has NOT kept up with Senior Longevity.  For us, this is a Great investment...and there are millions of Seniors enjoying the same "return" on investment.  At some point....and not too far into the future...the government is going to have to rewrite the rules or SS will be a thing of the past.


----------



## KingsX

C'est Moi said:


> I think the biggest thing we Boomers have going for us is that we are currently the single largest voting block thanks to our sheer numbers.   Politicians aren't going to be pushing any changes to current programs unless they are ready to be out of office.   I am most concerned that they will institute means-testing at some point but I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what happens.




I once believed this too.

But it now appears baby boomers have become more of a target than a voting block who will stand up for their interests.

I was up in arms when the House of Representatives tax bill eliminated the extra over age 65 standard deduction. But mine was a small voice crying in the wilderness with little company.

Thank God the Senate version of the tax bill and the final tax bill retained the extra over age 65 standard deduction.   But I suspect most seniors have no clue how close they came to losing it.

Something else seniors should have been vocal about...  the Reagan & Clinton eras laws which created the current tax on Social Security. Those taxes were on incomes that would never be adjusted for inflation. Now, decades later, that tax which initially only affected the rich,  now affects seniors who can least afford it.  There might have been an opportunity to change that in the current tax bill... but no one was interested.

.


----------



## mathjak107

Don M. said:


> Yup...SSDI is turning into a major Scam.  In our area, there are constant TV ads, and numerous billboards from unscrupulous Lawyers promising to get anyone with any minor issues on SSDI.  That is becoming a real drain on SS.  Plus, I am a classic example of the Other major problem...we are living too long.  I know what I paid in to SS during my working career, and I signed up for SS as soon as I became eligible, and the wife signed up for spousal benefits when she became eligible.  We have already received at least 3 times what I paid in, and if we live as long as our parents...that number may reach 7 or 8 times.  Yet, the SS withholding has NOT kept up with Senior Longevity.  For us, this is a Great investment...and there are millions of Seniors enjoying the same "return" on investment.  At some point....and not too far into the future...the government is going to have to rewrite the rules or SS will be a thing of the past.


 
here in ny they busted over 100 lawyers ,doctors , insiders at social security and some benefit receivers getting undeserved benefits . they say they are just starting the investigation and this is the tip of the iceberg . they should break ssdi off and make it part of welfare


----------



## retiredtraveler

> _We have already received at least 3 times what I paid in, and if we  live as long as our parents...that number may reach 7 or 8 times.  Yet,  the SS withholding has NOT kept up with Senior Longevity.  For us, this  is a Great investment...and there are millions of Seniors enjoying the  same "return" on investment.  At some point....and not too far into the  future...the government is going to have to rewrite the rules or SS will  be a thing of the past. 				_



Yup. But folks don't want to admit to that.


----------



## Kitties

I would stop spending on anything besides necessities and start saving now. Think about down sizing in the future. Your house payment is not high but could you afford it once you were both on social security with the small retirement? When my parents lived in a nice but not overly fancy mobile home park there was a retired MD and his wife living there. Why? Who knows. They were financially irresponsible? Or did they like the quiet and safety of an all adult park and wanted a simpler life. There are solutions, I don't think it's too late. Consider a big yard sale if you ever decide to move.


----------



## Mr X

mathjak107 said:


> the problem is ssdi is draining social security retirement . since 2000 ssdi has become the new unemployment insurance .  the ranks of those who manage to get on ssdi who really should not be is insane . billions had to be diverted from ss retirement to refill ssdi when it could not make payments .



True - I looked at going that route as it seemed like it's better to have a ticket, then to be on standby. I found many, many comments from people saying that it's impossible to get on the rolls - things have already tightened to where it's not worth the effort to scam. Same with "welfare" - I know we tend to have this image (fabricated for the sake of a good story) of guys living on the beach, surfing, eating with food stamps. I know people who are on, or tried to get on, welfare - there's so little money and it's so hard to get that it's easier to just work. 

I suspect that explains the increasing numbers of healthy young men panhandling at literally every stop light in town. While we're on the subject, I've seen those guys walk into a nice pub after their "shift," loaded with cash and ask "what new craft beers are on tap?" I'm always stunned when I see some rube handing them money!

Back to topic at hand - I must be on to something: one of the small town houses we were scheduled to see this weekend is already under contract...


----------



## ClassicRockr

Kitties said:


> I would stop spending on anything besides necessities and start saving now. Think about down sizing in the future. Your house payment is not high but could you afford it once you were both on social security with the small retirement? When my parents lived in a nice but not overly fancy mobile home park there was a retired MD and his wife living there. Why? Who knows. They were financially irresponsible? Or did they like the quiet and safety of an all adult park and wanted a simpler life. There are solutions, I don't think it's too late. Consider a big yard sale if you ever decide to move.



We are making plans on moving out of Florida and back to Colorado, but this time in the northern part. Plan on a pretty big downsize, which will either be a apt. complex garage sale or send to the Goodwill. However, there are a few things we plan on taking with us.......our powerboat (if still in good operation condition, will have it shipped) and our freshwater fishing gear. We will be only on SS and Savings, but will TRY to get part-time jobs, if we can. Our boat will be much cheaper to maintain there than here. Saltwater doesn't do a boat engine or body good.


----------



## KingsX

Kitties said:


> I would stop spending on anything besides necessities and start saving now. Think about down sizing in the future. Your house payment is not high but could you afford it once you were both on social security with the small retirement? When my parents lived in a nice but not overly fancy mobile home park there was a retired MD and his wife living there. Why? Who knows. They were financially irresponsible? Or did they like the quiet and safety of an all adult park and wanted a simpler life. There are solutions, I don't think it's too late. Consider a big yard sale if you ever decide to move.




One's house should be paid off before retirement. Mine was and I was a single working mother.  If I could do it anyone can. 
But my house in Texas would have cost four times as much in a high cost area of the country.  Which begs the question... 
why retire in a high cost area ??

Many years ago, I knew a colonel who retired to a nice adult mobile home park in El Paso [close to military infrastructure.]

If you are selling your home and also have a lot of "stuff" to to sell...  usually, you will make more money on your "stuff"
by using professionals to conduct an estate sale.


----------



## Kitties

KingsX said:


> One's house should be paid off before retirement. Mine was and I was a single working mother.  If I could do it anyone can.
> But my house in Texas would have cost four times as much in a high cost area of the country.  Which begs the question...
> why retire in a high cost area ??
> 
> Many years ago, I knew a colonel who retired to a nice adult mobile home park in El Paso [close to military infrastructure.]
> Not just lower income people live in mobile parks which to some is a belief. People may want to travel knowing their home will be completely safe with very close neighbors who will watch their home.
> 
> 
> If you are selling your home and also have a lot of "stuff" to to sell...  usually, you will make more money on your "stuff"
> by using professionals to conduct an estate sale.


Retire to a lower cost area. Sounds good. I'm in California but not in a high cost area. However I'm stuck here do to my step father. Would I look into leaving. I would. Where would I go, I have no idea how I would even start to answer that. There are thousands of places to live. I could but don't even research it at this time because it would be of no use. I've owned a stand alone house. Hated every second of it and would never want to live in one again. Nutty noisy neighbors (my apartment is quieter) Not what it's cracked up to be.​


----------



## KingsX

Kitties said:


> Not just lower income people live in mobile parks which to some is a belief. People may want to travel knowing their home will be completely safe with very close neighbors who will watch their home.




That  is exactly what the colonel and his wife did.  They knew so many ex-military people, 
after their retirement, they spent months traveling around the country visiting military friends 
as well as relatives.

.


----------



## NewRetire18

ClassicRockr said:


> We are making plans on moving out of Florida and back to Colorado, but this time in the northern part. Plan on a pretty big downsize, which will either be a apt. complex garage sale or send to the Goodwill. However, there are a few things we plan on taking with us.......our powerboat (if still in good operation condition, will have it shipped) and our freshwater fishing gear. We will be only on SS and Savings, but will TRY to get part-time jobs, if we can. Our boat will be much cheaper to maintain there than here. Saltwater doesn't do a boat engine or body good.



Curious; moving to the front range (eastern) side? Horsetooth is a good place for boats, and there is Lake Granby, but I can't remember a lot of good open water in the western side. Course, I haven't been to everything there! Sounds fun; I loved CO.


----------



## ClassicRockr

NewRetire18 said:


> Curious; moving to the front range (eastern) side? Horsetooth is a good place for boats, and there is Lake Granby, but I can't remember a lot of good open water in the western side. Course, I haven't been to everything there! Sounds fun; I loved CO.



Yes, aka The Eastern Slope. Lived in both Englewood (south) and Parker for total of 5 1/2 years and basically loved it. Boated and fished on Chatfield Reservoir a lot of weekends in the summer. Sometimes would go to Cherry Creek Reservoir to cruise around the lake. When not at a lake, we’d be at a rodeo. 

This time looking at northern Colorado to move to. Loveland or possibly Cheyenne, Wyoming. Will be visiting both this summer. If not either of those, somewhere away from Florida, the South and the Eastern States. We like mountains much more than beaches


----------



## fmdog44

I goofed off until I turned 31. I then left the ice cold Chicago area and searched for a place and way of life I needed. I hired on to a world wide construction company and made decent money. I was taught by my father life was much better with money and I was fairly frugal even in my wild boozing youth. I started investing and saving for retirement when I was around 35. I was driven again by the words of my dad to retire with money. Going in to the offshore energy industry twenty years before I retired allowed my to build my next egg working 12 hours a day, six to seven days a week when all my co-workers said I was nuts for doing so. I have been single all my life so family is no issue. I take care of my self and see the doctor every year for a checkup because I never want to know my death/disease could have been prevented with a simple physical exam annually. Several of my friends have died young because they never gave up the party life. I'm 70 and feel like a young man and thankful for every day of life. For the most part we choose the lives we have.


----------



## fmdog44

Mr X said:


> My wife had a blood infection and needed an IV for awhile to really clean things out. I went to place to learn how to change bag, irrigate PIC line, etc. I was talking to the nurse (he was outside smoking) and somehow we got on to the subject of lifestyle. He said "the biggest - and most cruel - joke is that all the people who don't drink, don't smoke, eat right and exercise are the ones that eventually end up in one of my chairs taking Chemo." I'll never forget that.



With all due respect the nurse was either stupid or stupider. There I nothing nice about being ill, lying in bed like a bag of last week's trash. Avoiding check ups is crazy. I don't like going but I don't want to hear "you have cancer and it is too far advanced to treat. I suggest you get your affairs in order". You will never forget that quote either


----------



## KingsX

.

One of my closest friends age 65 recently died of lung cancer [he was a heavy smoker.]
He first went to the ER with breathing problems at the end of July, was diagnosed with
terminal lung cancer and died the beginning of December.


----------



## mathjak107

KingsX said:


> One's house should be paid off before retirement. Mine was and I was a single working mother. If I could do it anyone can.
> .




many do not pay off their home today and that is a strategic decision .  in fact at 65 if we can get a mortgage for when we buy a co-op i will gladly take one .

there is no rule that says "good debt" is bad in retirement . that is an individual choice and not a blanket rule . having liquid cash can be more important sometimes than trapped equity . you can't pay medical expenses or buy food with a living  room .

far to many seniors end up house rich and cash poor and without a sale or loans they have no way of easily getting to the money later on if they need it ..

the other problems it presents is that many tend to pump extra dough in to the house accelerating the mortgage . then they attempt to fund their retirement .

the problem is time is your friend . they lost to many years and now they have to be a good timer , which of course few of us are . the less time you leave  for investing the less your odds are of doing well .

then of course we have been averaging over 12% a year for a decade  in markets while a mortgage cost 4% .

so each situation will be different and general statements like mortgage debt is bad in retirement can be quite poor advice  depending on someones circumstances .


----------



## Mr X

So we spent Saturday with a Realtor looking at some places upstate. Trying to stay under 100K might be difficult, but there were many choices below 130K. We figure we can get a place now (while our credit and debt/income are excellent) and just move what we need. We can then sell this place and either save proceeds or pay town new place. My wife can keep working for school district forever, which would allow me to get on her insurance, if needed. Who knows, maybe my job will last for another 10 years. In any event, it looks like we can get settled in a place that we could handle on our combined benefits, alone, if need be.

It was kind of a "culture shock." In the "big city" there is enough social diversity that it doesn't feel like we're living in the "Divided States of America." That may not be the case out in the sticks. Good news is that area is growing, which means there is job growth - I've noticed that companies are loath to move to areas where the majority holds that the Earth is flat.

The flip side of the medical argument is that science has reached the point where we can be kept "alive" with most of our original parts in a furnace. I just don't know that living in diapers with a bag, waiting for the next painful appointment to see what else they are going to slice off is a life worth living. I know people in that condition and the looks on their faces says that if it wasn't for family obligations and other superstitions, they would just as soon take the pipe.


----------



## Kitties

Down size and start saving sounds like a good idea and start for making a change. As far as the end of life issues, look into putting this all in writing. While married each spouse is the decision maker but if one is gone, then who? Having an advance directive for health care will help solve this. You can list the people in order who you want to make decisions and put in writing NOW what you do and don't want done. This is an expense that is worth it.


----------



## AZ Jim

Mr X said:


> Just give me the social security and medicare that I paid into and we will all be happy!


And you will lose money.  You receive more in benefits than you "paid in" on average.


----------



## Mr X

Interesting how old habits die hard. Our search for a new place has degenerated into looking at listings for properties that aren't going to save us much money. 

It went from seeking a place we could support on a Walmart greeter's salary, to wondering why we'd move to some backward, toilet of a town, in order to save $300/month.


----------



## KingsX

AZ Jim said:


> You receive more in benefits than you "paid in" on average.




One should get more than he "paid in."  He should also get interest.
Has anyone ever calculated the return of the money he paid in plus
all the interest that money would  have made over the decades ??
[remember, interest rates in the 70s and 80s were high]


----------



## KingsX

mathjak107 said:


> many do not pay off their home today and that is a strategic decision .  in fact at 65 if we can get a mortgage for when we buy a co-op i will gladly take one .
> 
> there is no rule that says "good debt" is bad in retirement . that is an individual choice and not a blanket rule . having liquid cash can be more important sometimes than trapped equity . you can't pay medical expenses or buy food with a living  room .
> 
> far to many seniors end up house rich and cash poor and without a sale or loans they have no way of easily getting to the money later on if they need it ..




It is not smart to be house poor.   Before retiring one should move to a reasonably priced house that he can pay off and still have plenty of liquid funds.  That is what I did.  I first bought a small old house that I paid off in a few years.  When I sold that house for a profit,  I rolled that money and more into a nicer bigger house that I also paid off several years before retiring at age 55.

Since I've been retired the value of my home and the value of my entire nest egg has increased.

I plan to live in this house for many more years.  Then after I turn 70,  I may seriously think about moving into a seniors apartment which will free up the money invested in my house.


----------



## fmdog44

Before the tech bubble burst in the mid 80's I was on chat rooms with young people that were stating how far they were going indebt to buy internet stocks and funds. They were signing up for as many credit cards as possible so they could buy more. As a seasoned investor I pleaded with them to stop but they responded that I was a stupid old man that knew nothing and that I was jealous of them and they were all going to be young multimillionaires on internet stocks alone. I did not get through to a single one of them and then it burst. After the crash I could not find any of them online. I often wonder how they made out but I'm certain it was not good. So much for get rich quick.


----------



## Seeker

Sittin' here waitin' on my stocks to just get back to purchase price so I can sell em'....real close....


----------



## KingsX

.

I've done just fine without investing in stocks.


----------



## mathjak107

as long as your draw is low enough from your savings no reason you can't do okay with no equities .

but  not something i would care to do nor the thing most retirees should be doing  since with almost no risk and just some volatility to deal with  they can make much more efficient use of the same savings amount.

there is a 25% difference in pay check not to mention a huge difference left over between just using fixed income vs what you can get with a 50/50 mix . most retirees need to  get their portfolio's as efficient at creating an income as they can since  it is so hard for them to save enough not to need equities . no equities can support about a  3% draw rate , while 50/50 can support at least 4% . while it does not sound like a lot you are talking a 25%  bigger draw and a whole lot of difference at the end left as well as raises along the way if things are better than worst case . .

so , no not everyone needs equities but depending on the draw you need they become mandatory at a 4% draw  .


----------



## mathjak107

fmdog44 said:


> Before the tech bubble burst in the mid 80's I was on chat rooms with young people that were stating how far they were going indebt to buy internet stocks and funds. They were signing up for as many credit cards as possible so they could buy more. As a seasoned investor I pleaded with them to stop but they responded that I was a stupid old man that knew nothing and that I was jealous of them and they were all going to be young multimillionaires on internet stocks alone. I did not get through to a single one of them and then it burst. After the crash I could not find any of them online. I often wonder how they made out but I'm certain it was not good. So much for get rich quick.


betting on the next microsoft or hot sector is speculating not investing . betting the ranch on individual stocks and the whims of a few companies is speculating , that is risk .

betting on the natural cycles of the market over long periods of time is only volatility. even at 65 we have money we will not eat with for 20-30 years .  there is a big difference between volatility and risk .

50/50 has never ever lost money over a 10 or 20 year period of time ,   it has also  made it through 96% of  of the 30 year retirement cycles out of 117 so far  without failing and left you with more than you started 90% of the time . fixed income has already failed  to last 64% of those 117- 30 year cycles .

so while diversified equities can be volatile the real risk over the long term wiould have been betting on fixed income at a 4% draw


----------



## ClassicRockr

Well, after reading the last few replies, a lot of you, including my wife, made darn good salaries thru the years........,that I absolutely DID NOT. 

I got caught up in the low wages of small companies, low meaning around $8.50 thru $10.00 per hour. When I was 32 yrs. old in 1982, I worked for a division of a large company (Bell & Howell), but I was a Stockroom Clerk making $5 an hour. The highest salary I ever made was on my last job, as a Materials Coordinator, for $14.74 per hour after 4 1/2 years. When I left that job, I was 58. Really kind of embarrassing to be making that low of wage at that age!

To a point, it’s no wonder I couldn’t save money or live a more descent lifestyle.

Unfortunately, once my wife retires, semi-retires most likely, and we move, we most likely won’t have the lifestyle we currently do.


----------



## mathjak107

in the end everyone makes do with what they have . they may hate the lifestyle but they make it work .   when incomes are low enough there are usually  public programs that help make that income bigger . here in nyc i know we have loads of things from utility bill assistance to rent freeze programs .


----------



## Ken N Tx

I planned later in life say about 15 years before retiring.. I wished I could have started earlier, but I was the sole bread winner and had 6 children to raise! My oldest son, who will be 53 this year, realized what I had to go through (and do without) and he questioned how I did it.


----------



## ClassicRockr

mathjak107 said:


> in the end everyone makes do with what they have . they may hate the lifestyle but they make it work .   when incomes are low enough there are usually  public programs that help make that income bigger . here in nyc i know we have loads of things from utility bill assistance to rent freeze programs .



I never needed Public Assistance when I made the low wages, but really watched the money I spent (well, sometimes LOL).

Don’t know if we will ever need Public Assistance, but know it’s there if needed. 

I will probably stop my Medicare and Supplements and just go with my VA Medical. I use my VA Medical a lot right now, so it wouldn’t be much of a change......if I really need to stop Medicare and Supplements later. 

Our lifestyle will darn sure change though.


----------



## Camper6

I found out that the big mistake is estimating how long you are going to live after retirement.

If you retire at 65 the estimate is 15 years.

I spent too much having fun at first but now have settled back into a routine.

The sad part is that you can't earn any money after retirement.  It has to come from pension income.


----------



## mathjak107

at 65 life expectancy is far greater than at birth . at 80 there is still a 62% chance a male will be alive

a 65 year old couple has an 89% chance of one of them seeking 80 and a 73% chance of one seeing 85. we can't use statistics from birth anymore once we are in our 60's so life expectancy is much greater once you make it that far .

i am 65 and still earn a bit of an income. i was fortunate enough to really like what i did so i still do technical training for my old firm 1 day a week . i also got back in to my drumming and have been doing some studio time , my wife and i are also in to photography and we get a few bucks from that too .

so all in all we are doing what we enjoy and the fact it pays is even nicer


----------



## ClassicRockr

mathjak107 said:


> at 65 life expectancy is far greater than at birth . at 80 there is still a 62% chance a male will be alive
> 
> a 65 year old couple has an 89% chance of one of them seeking 80 and a 73% chance of one seeing 85. we can't use statistics from birth anymore once we are in our 60's so life expectancy is much greater once you make it that far .
> 
> i am 65 and still earn a bit of an income. i was fortunate enough to really like what i did so i still do technical training for my old firm 1 day a week . i also got back in to my drumming and have been doing some studio time , my wife and i are also in to photography and we get a few bucks from that too .
> 
> so all in all we are doing what we enjoy and the fact it pays is even nicer



First, with your photography, what kind of photography do you take that sells?

Once we move, my wife will still have an easier time finding a part-time job than I will. Along with her Accounting experience, she now has some years working in both banking and insurance. Her Bachelors Degree is old (1997), but at least she has it. 

Due to my past surgeries, I can basically only do desk work, but am very good on a computer/data entry. 

In both “employment like” and the “retirement years”, one major word talks a lot.....money!


----------



## mathjak107

we do a lot of macro photography as well as we tend to sell  photo's of local sights here in ny . they tend to do the best . we just sold a file of a local castle for 2 uses for 250 bucks . they are promoting weddings there and wanted to use the file for a bridal show .


----------



## Mr X

fmdog44 said:


> Before the tech bubble burst in the mid 80's I was on chat rooms with young people that were stating how far they were going indebt to buy internet stocks and funds. They were signing up for as many credit cards as possible so they could buy more. As a seasoned investor I pleaded with them to stop but they responded that I was a stupid old man that knew nothing and that I was jealous of them and they were all going to be young multimillionaires on internet stocks alone. I did not get through to a single one of them and then it burst. After the crash I could not find any of them online. I often wonder how they made out but I'm certain it was not good. So much for get rich quick.



Funny - I was in a perfect spot to cash in on that stuff. My friend was one of those guys who is always the smartest guy in the room, but is his own worst enemy. Anyway my buddy, with his MBA, CPA, Masters in History and experience as a global financial analyst for Motorola, at the time, decided the Internet was a "fad." We missed out on the entire wave.

I still remember reading trade magazines at work (Computer business) where Mark Cuban had a Tech Stock Column. If only I'd listened to him, instead...

Back to original topic, I found a place on a couple acres for 14K! Needless to say, my wife nixed that one even before I told her we'd have to haul our own water!


----------



## KingsX

mathjak107 said:


> as long as your draw is low enough from your savings no reason you can't do okay with no equities .




When one is totally debt free it's easy [at least for me] to live comfortably on SS alone.

I have not and don't plan to use my nest egg for day to day living expenses.


----------



## KingsX

ClassicRockr said:


> To a point, it’s no wonder I couldn’t save money or live a more descent lifestyle.
> 
> Unfortunately, once my wife retires, semi-retires most likely, and we move, we most likely won’t have the lifestyle we currently do.






Mr X said:


> I found a place on a couple acres for 14K! Needless to say, my wife nixed that one even before I told her we'd have to haul our own water!





I was a single mother when I was working, making decisions and saving for retirement.

Does a spouse help [as in a second income] or hinder [as in a second spender and decision-maker]  planning/saving for retirement ?


----------



## mathjak107

KingsX said:


> When one is totally debt free it's easy [at least for me] to live comfortably on SS alone.
> 
> I have not and don't plan to use my nest egg for day to day living expenses.


boy , how nice is that .  unfortunately  that would never work here in nyc  for us , we would starve   lol .... in fact i grew up in a nyc housing project . today you can still qualify at 69k   a year in income to put cost in perspective .


----------



## ClassicRockr

KingsX said:


> When one is totally debt free it's easy [at least for me] to live comfortably on SS alone.
> 
> I have not and don't plan to use my nest egg for day to day living expenses.



Just what is “debt free” today? Only kidding, but many, many Senior retirees would never be able to live “debt free”. Way to many cool things to do as a Senior.


----------



## ClassicRockr

Sorry for the duplicate posting. Deleted one.


----------



## KingsX

mathjak107 said:


> boy , how nice is that .  unfortunately  that would never work here in nyc  for us , we would starve   lol .... in fact i grew up in a nyc housing project . today you can still qualify at 69k   a year in income to put cost in perspective .




The irony is... here in Texas, as a single working mother,  I was able to buy two houses [and paid them both off], saved enough money necessary to retire early [age 55] from my 26 year corporate job and never came close to earning 69k a year [my best annual salary before I retired was in the mid-50k]


----------



## Mr X

KingsX said:


> Does a spouse help [as in a second income] or hinder [as in a second spender and decision-maker]  planning/saving for retirement ?



Haa - both! She doesn't make a lot working for school district, but benefits are great. She is also why we are in this spot. When I was single (circa 1990) I got yelled at by payroll at work for having 11K in un-cashed paychecks in my desk. Fast forward to present and we have a better income than most, minimal debt, a mortgage that's less than a nice apartment yet we live check-to-check. 

Rather than get into the whole "start saving now" thing again, I'd really like to get back to the original question - let's hear from more folks living without a pension, savings or retirement plan. It seems quite doable with no mortgage and low property taxes, but maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## KingsX

ClassicRockr said:


> Just what is “debt free” today? Only kidding, but many, many Senior retirees would never be able to live “debt free”. Way to many cool things to do as a Senior.




One makes choices and one lives with the consequences of those choices.


----------



## mathjak107

money may not buy happiness but it can certainly buy choices at times .


----------



## KingsX

mathjak107 said:


> money may not buy happiness but it can certainly buy choices at times .




Unless bad choices make you bankrupt.

I have a friend who always earned more money than me.  But while I saved, she spent.
Currently she gets more SS income than I do. But she is not able to hold onto money.  
She doesn't have a lot of material things. But somehow she manages to squander a lot 
of money.  When she sold her paid off house she blew through all that money in a only
a few years... and now has nothing to show for it.


----------



## Butterfly

Mr X said:


> Interesting how old habits die hard. Our search for a new place has degenerated into looking at listings for properties that aren't going to save us much money.
> 
> It went from seeking a place we could support on a Walmart greeter's salary, to wondering why we'd move to some backward, toilet of a town, in order to save $300/month.



$300 per month can mean a whole hell of a lot if you don't have it!  And define "toilet of a town," please.  You may need to seriously lower your expectations now if you expect to be able to live decently in retirement.


----------



## mathjak107

KingsX said:


> Unless bad choices make you bankrupt.
> 
> I have a friend who always earned more money than me.  But while I saved, she spent.
> Currently she gets more SS income than I do. But she is not able to hold onto money.
> She doesn't have a lot of material things. But somehow she manages to squander a lot
> of money.  When she sold her paid off house she blew through all that money in a only
> a few years... and now has nothing to show for it.




we are talking about choices in life that are not financial choices . if you make bad financial choices than you have no or little money and hence no choices


----------



## KingsX

mathjak107 said:


> we are talking about choices in life that are not financial choices . if you make bad financial choices than you have no or little money and hence no choices




In the long run,  life choices are financial choices.  Where you live and how you live directly affect finances.

For example,  before she retired, my friend moved and bought a house near the beach [a life long dream.]
But living near the beach can be quite expensive. For example,  she has to maintain three insurance polices.  
The kind most people have on their house... plus extra wind and flood insurance [and they aren't cheap.]


----------



## mathjak107

choices in life can always cost money and likely will where choices are available . that is what money buys .  but  as i said if you make bad financial choices then you have no money and  no choices .

i learned how important choices in life were as a kid . i grew up in  a nyc housing project   and ran with a bad crowd . well one night the guys were going to do something that i and a friend decided we did not want to be part of . so we did not go . well  things went bad and not only were  my friends arrested but so was the friend who did not even participate .

his family was just over the limit for legal aid and his family could not afford a lawyer . rather than risk a jury not believing that he was not there  he was going to plead guilty and plea bargain for something he never did .

i was blown away that because he couldn't afford a lawyer he would have no choice but to plead guilty even if innocent . not having a choice because you had no money was a horrible thing . it was a situation i swore to myself i never wanted to be in . 

at the last minute a relative took a heloc and got him a lawyer . he was found innocent but that served as a life long lesson for me . the more money you can have the more  choices you can have and  growing my  money  as best as i could and making sure i always had money to invest become a  life long goal . there were times i had 3 jobs going on to fill in the gaps .


----------



## Paige of Times

I've been at the same company for 13 years.  Started out making something around 30K/yr and now up to 45K/yr.  I didn't join the 401K until about 6 years ago because I started getting scared about imminent old age.  My savings is at 22K, due to inheritance $ I saved while the payments came in from the sale of my Dads property over 10 years, and my adding to it at about $100/mo. from my paycheck.

Visited with a financial adviser last September.  *BEST THING I EVER DID* to save my sanity about my situation.  The outfit I used (recommendation from a co-worker) was Edward Jones.  The guy sat with me for an hour, asked all sorts of questions (mtg payment, car payment, bills, do I want to travel, etc), used his software to give me a picture of where I'm at and he said I was actually doing quite well.  I was shocked because you read on the net that you need XXX amount of your current pay saved to retire.  I think mine came out to like 100K.  I have nothing near that!  *I highly recommend going to an adviser*, just might make you feel better about your situation.  Plus, the gentleman I met with didn't charge me for an hour of his time/services.


----------



## RiverUp

KingsX said:


> The irony is... here in Texas, as a single working mother,  I was able to buy two houses [and paid them both off], saved enough money necessary to retire early [age 55] from my 26 year corporate job and never came close to earning 69k a year [my best annual salary before I retired was in the mid-50k]



My husband always says it is not so much how much money you make, it is how you manage the money that is critical.  KingsX, you are an example of what he is talking about.  You managed your money carefully and did that for many years.  Congratulations!


----------



## RiverUp

Butterfly said:


> $300 per month can mean a whole hell of a lot if you don't have it!  And define "toilet of a town," please.  You may need to seriously lower your expectations now if you expect to be able to live decently in retirement.



I agree, if you are managing carefully, $300 a month is great!  Interesting this amount got mentioned.  Some years ago, my husband was thinking of retiring.  If he waited three more years, we would get $300 more a month, for life.  Even though his job situation was no picnic and he had to work a lot of overtime, we stayed the extra years.  Now, we are glad we did.  $300 buys more than you might think.


----------



## RiverUp

KingsX said:


> Unless bad choices make you bankrupt.
> 
> I have a friend who always earned more money than me.  But while I saved, she spent.
> Currently she gets more SS income than I do. But she is not able to hold onto money.
> She doesn't have a lot of material things. But somehow she manages to squander a lot
> of money.  When she sold her paid off house she blew through all that money in a only
> a few years... and now has nothing to show for it.



Sometimes I think the ability to manage money must be a gift from above, like so many other gifts.  Some just don't have it!  BUT!  We can all learn to do better at things we are not "naturally gifted" at!  Don't you think?


----------



## KingsX

RiverUp said:


> Sometimes I think the ability to manage money must be a gift from above, like so many other gifts.  Some just don't have it!  BUT!  We can all learn to do better at things we are not "naturally gifted" at!  Don't you think?




Definitely a gift from God.

Many people who earn less than $50,000 live comfortably.
Others who earn over $100,000 can't make ends meet.

The solution for many is to increase their income,  not reduce 
their spending. But if there are no limits to spending, no amount
of income can compensate.


----------



## Aunt Bea

KingsX said:


> Definitely a gift from God.
> 
> Many people who earn less than $50,000 live comfortably.
> Others who earn over $100,000 can't make ends meet.
> 
> The solution for many is to increase their income,  not reduce
> their spending. But if there are no limits to spending, no amount
> of income can compensate.


 
I agree!

Your post reminds me of this old commercial.


----------



## Mr X

Butterfly said:


> $300 per month can mean a whole hell of a lot if you don't have it!  And define "toilet of a town," please.  You may need to seriously lower your expectations now if you expect to be able to live decently in retirement.



This particular "toilet of a town" is one of those places that supports an abundance of churches to redirect the frustrations of the human wreckage created by a lack of institutions of higher learning. The rest of the population appears to find solace in meth. Needless to say, my expectations can't get much lower...

Got some actual numbers from finance guy and looks closer to $500/month savings, just on housing. And that's not touching the 50 - 100K we'd clear from current house. Still not what I was hoping for, but hopefully some cheaper options will hit the market.

Glad we started when we did - I had figured we'd put $1500 down and have a place for 200 bucks a month. Live and learn...


----------



## KingsX

Mr X said:


> This particular "toilet of a town" is one of those places that supports an abundance of churches to redirect the frustrations of the human wreckage created by a lack of institutions of higher learning. The rest of the population appears to find solace in meth. Needless to say, my expectations can't get much lower...
> 
> Got some actual numbers from finance guy and looks closer to $500/month savings, just on housing. And that's not touching the 50 - 100K we'd clear from current house. Still not what I was hoping for, but hopefully some cheaper options will hit the market.
> 
> Glad we started when we did - I had figured we'd put $1500 down and have a place for 200 bucks a month. Live and learn...




Back in the day when I was young,  most of the druggies were spoiled rich college students.
Good luck with your retirement finances [you'll need it.]


----------



## Mr X

KingsX said:


> Back in the day when I was young,  most of the druggies were spoiled rich college students.
> ]



Today they are the children of working people who voted against their own best interests. Poetic justice, don't you think?


----------



## ClassicRockr

But, in order to really save, a person has to have a descent paying job and stay on that job for years upon years. Many people don't want to, or can't, stay on the same job for years upon years. There are such things as being laid-off, terminated or company closing. Three companies where I quit my job, the company folded the following year. 
A person has to find the right company to work for and that can be darn difficult to do.


----------



## Mr X

ClassicRockr said:


> But, in order to really save, a person has to have a descent paying job and stay on that job for years upon years. Many people don't want to, or can't, stay on the same job for years upon years. There are such things as being laid-off, terminated or company closing. Three companies where I quit my job, the company folded the following year.
> A person has to find the right company to work for and that can be darn difficult to do.



You are exactly right, yet it sounds like most of the people here found a way. 

I have no excuse, since I always made good money, but I'll give one, anyway: My Mother is a nut job. She instilled this idea that you can never "get ahead." She figured that as soon as you saved $2000, the car would need a new engine. If you saved more, then you'd get in an accident, get sick, or the roof would need replacing. She eventually made it "self-fulfilling" by always needing money whenever my wife and I would save something. Like anything else, it just became a habit - spend every penny to avoid disaster.


----------



## Aunt Bea

Mr X said:


> You are exactly right, yet it sounds like most of the people here found a way.
> 
> I have no excuse, since I always made good money, but I'll give one, anyway: My Mother is a nut job. She instilled this idea that you can never "get ahead." She figured that as soon as you saved $2000, the car would need a new engine. If you saved more, then you'd get in an accident, get sick, or the roof would need replacing. She eventually made it "self-fulfilling" by always needing money whenever my wife and I would save something. Like anything else, it just became a habit - spend every penny to avoid disaster.



Don't throw poor old mom under the bus, LOL!!!

Negative self talk can definitely take its toll but we are the only ones that can combat the voices and turn it around.

I worked for a man years ago that always said _"You will always have a car payment."._  When he made the last payment he would go out and finance another new car.  As far as I know he is still making car payments.

With a little effort you can replace the negative self talk with positive affirmations.  

Here is one that helped me.







Good luck!


----------



## KingsX

Aunt Bea said:


> I worked for a man years ago that always said _"You will always have a car payment."._  When he made the last payment he would go out and finance another new car.  As far as I know he is still making car payments.




I bought my first new car, paid it off in four years and drove it for 12 years [that's 8 years without a car payment.]
I traded that car in for another new car that I paid off in three years and drove for 11 years [another 8 years without
a car payment.] I traded that car in for another new car that I paid off in three years and am still driving [11 years
without a car payment so far and still counting.]

.


----------



## ClassicRockr

This “no more car payment” thing is great, just like “no more mortgage payment”, UNTIL......car repair costs are more than the monthly payments and/or house repairs are more than monthly mortgage payments.

I’m not the “negative” type person, even though some think I am......just a “realistic” thinking person.


----------



## Camper6

The trick to retirement is having your life and your money run out at the same time.

If I can make it to next Thursday, I'll be fine. 

I live in Canada, so if you have been working all your life you get the Canada Pension at retirement plus any money you have put aside privately.

You also get the Old Age Pension and a supplement if your income qualifies.

So then we also have senior homes where the rent is subsidized.  No one has to starve or be homeless if you have worked for a living especially if both partners have worked.

I lucked out because I live in an apartment where the utilities are covered like heat and electricity.

The only thing I have to worry about is television and internet and telephone.


Suggestion.  Immigrate to Canada. The exchange rate is about 77 cents on the dollar in favour of American funds.

Seriously though, retirement where your funds go farther is an option.  A place like Panama or Mexico or one of the American possessions.


----------



## JimW

Camper6 said:


> The trick to retirement is having your life and your money run out at the same time.
> 
> If I can make it to next Thursday, I'll be fine.
> 
> I live in Canada, so if you have been working all your life you get the Canada Pension at retirement plus any money you have put aside privately.
> 
> You also get the Old Age Pension and a supplement if your income qualifies.
> 
> So then we also have senior homes where the rent is subsidized.  No one has to starve or be homeless if you have worked for a living especially if both partners have worked.
> 
> I lucked out because I live in an apartment where the utilities are covered like heat and electricity.
> 
> The only thing I have to worry about is television and internet and telephone.
> 
> 
> *Suggestion.  Immigrate to Canada. The exchange rate is about 77 cents on the dollar in favour of American funds.*
> 
> Seriously though, retirement where your funds go farther is an option.  A place like Panama or Mexico or one of the American possessions.



When we go to Windsor to visit the in-laws the last couple years, as soon as we exit the currency exchange my wife says something to the effect of "Momma gets to go shopping" or "I'll take that extra couple hundred dollars please".


----------



## KingsX

ClassicRockr said:


> This “no more car payment” thing is great, just like “no more mortgage payment”, UNTIL......car repair costs are more than the monthly payments and/or house repairs are more than monthly mortgage payments.
> 
> I’m not the “negative” type person, even though some think I am......just a “realistic” thinking person.




Depends on the car.  Do your homework and buy a more dependable car.  

As for the house,  if you are in a less expensive area and start out with a less expensive 
but well-built house that many call a "starter home" and pay it off as soon as possible... 
generally,  mortgage/home repairs will not be more expensive than rent in the long run.
Meanwhile you are building equity which means you will recoup money when you sell.


.


----------



## ClassicRockr

Problem with having a house......yearly property taxes that a Renter doesn't have. When a person rents, the Management Company of the complex will take care of most-to-all repairs. We have a new water heater, new outside A/C Unit and a new thermostat. 

A "more dependable car" would also mean a more expensive one with higher monthly payments.


----------



## KingsX

ClassicRockr said:


> Problem with having a house......yearly property taxes that a Renter doesn't have. When a person rents, the Management Company of the complex will take care of most-to-all repairs. We have a new water heater, new outside A/C Unit and a new thermostat.
> 
> A "more dependable car" would also mean a more expensive one with higher monthly payments.




The landlord includes the cost of property taxes, repairs, etc in the rent he charges and he still makes a profit.

My Honda Civic I bought new in 2004 was not an expensive car.  It's been a very dependable car and I am still driving it 14 years later and payment free for the past 11 years.


----------



## Aunt Bea

ClassicRockr said:


> Problem with having a house......yearly property taxes that a Renter doesn't have. When a person rents, the Management Company of the complex will take care of most-to-all repairs. We have a new water heater, new outside A/C Unit and a new thermostat.
> 
> A "more dependable car" would also mean a more expensive one with higher monthly payments.



When you rent the owner/management company is doing the budgeting/saving and using your rent money to pay the repairs, taxes, etc...

The same with the idea of no car payments, doesn't mean no more saving.  You still need to put the money away to make repairs or to purchase a new vehicle.

I like to rent because it gives me a predictable payment every month and I don't have to worry about the day to day hassles of yard work, trash pickup, snow plowing, etc...

My landlord likes it because my neighbors and I are buying him a multi million dollar property that he can cash in for his retirement, LOL.

Sort of reminds me of Boulevard - Jackson Browne: _"Nobody rides for free, Nobody gets it like they want it to be..."_


----------



## ClassicRockr

KingsX said:


> The landlord includes the cost of property taxes, repairs, etc in the rent he charges and he still makes a profit.
> 
> My Honda Civic I bought new in 2004 was not an expensive car.  It's been a very dependable car and I am still driving it 14 years later and payment free for the past 11 years.



If a person rents from a private party (Landlord), that is different than renting an apartment from a Management Company. We like to buy another house, but won't be able to, not even with my GI Bill. Have never used it to buy property, because I could never afford the down and monthly mortgage. Can't use my GI Bill, because I have to be on a job for at least 5 years to qualify with a bank. I retired, thru SS Early Retirement, 7 years ago. 

As far as the vehicle goes, we have to have one that will pull a 20' power boat, as does our 2005 Durango SLT V-8, and I'm able to sit in comfortably. I'm a little over 6'1" and have the seat in the Durango pushed all the way back when I drive it. In an accident, a small vehicle, like a Honda Civic, can be deadly.


----------



## Aunt Bea

ClassicRockr said:


> If a person rents from a private party (Landlord), that is different than renting an apartment from a Management Company. *We like to buy another house, but won't be able to, not even with my GI Bill. Have never used it to buy property, because I could never afford the down and monthly mortgage. Can't use my GI Bill, because I have to be on a job for at least 5 years to qualify with a bank. I retired, thru SS Early Retirement, 7 years ago.
> *
> As far as the vehicle goes, we have to have one that will pull a 20' power boat, as does our 2005 Durango SLT V-8, and I'm able to sit in comfortably. I'm a little over 6'1" and have the seat in the Durango pushed all the way back when I drive it. In an accident, a small vehicle, like a Honda Civic, can be deadly.



*CR,*

Check with the VA again on using your SS and or SSDI as a source of income.  I believe that now you can use SSDI as long as it has been received for two years and is expected to continue as a result of a permanent disability or permanent SS retirement income.

Good luck!


----------



## Mr X

Camper6 said:


> I live in Canada, so if you have been working all your life you get the Canada Pension at retirement plus any money you have put aside privately.
> 
> You also get the Old Age Pension and a supplement if your income qualifies.
> 
> So then we also have senior homes where the rent is subsidized.  No one has to starve or be homeless if you have worked for a living especially if both partners have worked.



I have a co-worker in Canada who is a similar age - we talk about this stuff all the time. My favorite is that she'll get one month salary for every year worked, if she gets laid off - kind of makes it easy to not be stressed.

Anyway, my wife and I took another trip upstate to look at houses in a cheaper locale. The hard part is still keeping sight of the original goal of getting something really, really cheap. It gets difficult when seeing stuff that's bigger than what we have now, for less than half the price and thinking "what if..."


----------



## garyt1957

Pay off debt!! First and foremost pay off that high interest CC debt, that's a killer. Take a home equity loan if you have to, but work on getting rid of that first. then work on any extra debt. Then we can talk.


----------



## Ruthanne

I can't say my problems are not from planning for the future because I became disabled.  No one plans for that at an earlier age!  I now try to be thrifty, go to Aldi's for food, the thrift store for clothes, by the cheapest wine, only get the necessary repairs on my car.  I save some but it is for my dog and birds vet bills.  Nothing left for luxury.


----------



## Patnono

We All have made financial mistakes, so we shouldn't throw stones. If anyone says they didn't?  Their embarrassed to say so. I had to retire early due to debilitating anxiety. And I wasn't prepared for that. Things happen unexpectedly.  I'm scared for my future?  I heard someone say 'at least have your car paid for, at least you'll have some where to sleep'. That's so True, I read about homeless seniors. The waiting list for senior housing is 5-10 years. My savings is going fast.


----------



## ClassicRockr

Patnono said:


> We All have made financial mistakes, so we shouldn't throw stones. If anyone says they didn't?  Their embarrassed to say so. I had to retire early due to debilitating anxiety. And I wasn't prepared for that. Things happen unexpectedly.  I'm scared for my future?  I heard someone say 'at least have your car paid for, at least you'll have some where to sleep'. That's so True, I read about homeless seniors. The waiting list for senior housing is 5-10 years. My savings is going fast.



True, about making financial mistakes, but when those mistakes continue to be made, something is wrong somewhere.


----------



## Patnono

True


----------



## Derby

If you've chosen to live in financial poverty in your old age, fine. But for the love of God, don't just "let nature take its course." Poverty of health is far, far worse than living on welfare, believe me. Once your health is gone, you'll realize that it was your real treasure.

And by the way, I'm stating that as a Canadian who has free (yes, free) healthcare.


----------



## Patnono

I agree, Lucky you for having Free health care. If I get hospitalized I have to pay $9,000 out of pocket.  Having bad health can be a Domino affect.


----------



## Derby

*Health Care in Canada*



Patnono said:


> I agree, Lucky you for having Free health care. If I get hospitalized I have to pay $9,000 out of pocket.  Having bad health can be a Domino affect.




Oh my god -- that's outrageous. The only thing I've ever had to pay for at the hospital is parking. Now Canadians are negotiating free dental, pharmaceutical, and vision care. Of course, we pay for everything we have with our taxes, so it's not actually free. That said, if I had to come up with 9 grand just for a bed in a hospital.... well, that would be an end to my vacations in Mexico!


----------



## Patnono

Yeah, that would eat up my retirement savings. I heard that you pay more in taxes to pay for your medical. But still $9000 is alot, and that's for one calendar year. Luckly I don't have any chronic diseases  I try to stay healthy and avoid going to the doctors. It's a $35.00 co-payment Everytime I go. They want me to be destitute before they will pay for it. 
If  I have to be paying $9000, that will be sooner than later


----------



## Mr X

Quick update. Homes in our chosen backwater aren't really cheap enough to make sense, and our friends all think we are nuts for even thinking about such a move. Of course, they have no idea how dire our straights are. I spent the evening looking at job postings, to be prepared for my eventual lay off. I'd pray for death if I believed anyone was listening. All I can do is keep sharing my story and hope someone on the next bar stool will teach me a trade. Onward and downward!


----------



## KingsX

Mr X said:


> Quick update. Homes in our chosen backwater aren't really cheap enough to make sense, and our friends all think we are nuts for even thinking about such a move. Of course, they have no idea how dire our straights are. I spent the evening looking at job postings, to be prepared for my eventual lay off. I'd pray for death if I believed anyone was listening. *All I can do is keep sharing my story and hope someone on the next bar stool* will teach me a trade. Onward and downward!




I hope that was a joke and you are not really drowning your sorrows at a bar.

My EX-husband did that.  Whenever there was an emergency, financial or otherwise,
his "solution" was always the same... go to the nearest bar and get drunk.

.


----------



## Mr X

No, I wasn't at the bar when I posted, but it was no joke. For 20 years I've gone to a wonderful pub where I may eventually find someone who holds the key to my salvation.


----------



## NewRetire18

I could have written your same post, but then discovered the person that held the key to my salvation was as close as the nearest mirror. 
If you can, do what I did, and get that person to make a list of all the things that put them to where they are in dire straights, have them make another list of positive things to address every negative thing on the first list. 

Then get them to act on the second list- when they're not in a bar. Don't get me wrong...I _like_ (hehehe) drinking, but only after the the requirements of each day are completed successfully.

Good luck!!!


----------



## OneEyedDiva

NewRetire18 said:


> I could have written your same post, but then discovered the person that held the key to my salvation was as close as the nearest mirror.
> If you can, do what I did, and get that person to make a list of all the things that put them to where they are in dire straights, have them make another list of positive things to address every negative thing on the first list.
> 
> Then get them to act on the second list- when they're not in a bar. Don't get me wrong...I _like_ (hehehe) drinking, but only after the the requirements of each day are completed successfully.
> 
> Good luck!!!



Great reply NewRetire18 !


----------



## ancient mariner

Is this a joke?  Retirement and growing old isn't for sissies!!!


----------



## ClassicRockr

ancient mariner said:


> Is this a joke?  Retirement and growing old isn't for sissies!!!



Man, you’ve definitely got THAT right, however wife and I sure aren’t pointing our finger at anyone. We’ve made some mistakes, including using some savings to move here. Should have stayed in Colorado!


----------



## Mr X

NewRetire18 said:


> I could have written your same post, but then discovered the person that held the key to my salvation was as close as the nearest mirror.



You must have one of those magic mirrors!


----------



## CarolfromTX

Dave Ramsey has written several books about getting out of debt, and getting by on less. Lots of tough love there, but I think that's what you need. Surely you have paid into social security, so there is that. Start saving now. Work until at least 65. Medicare and SS kick in at 65, but supplemental insurance is several hundred a month. I am thankful we are not in your position. Good luck.


----------



## ClassicRockr

CarolfromTX said:


> Dave Ramsey has written several books about getting out of debt, and getting by on less. Lots of tough love there, but I think that's what you need. Surely you have paid into social security, so there is that. Start saving now. Work until at least 65. Medicare and SS kick in at 65, but supplemental insurance is several hundred a month. I am thankful we are not in your position. Good luck.



If a person chooses to do so, they can get SS Early Retirement at 62. However, there are restrictions to SS Early Retirement. Medicare can start at 65. 
Due to much difficulty finding a descent paying job, I started my SS at 62. My UI had run out, so wife and I decided SS Early Retirement was best for me and us. 

She’s the lucky one though, she has a nice paying job, plus gets her full SS as well. Once we move, her “good paying job” will be gone.


----------



## Lethe200

Falcon said:


> There's always welfare  & food stamps  to keep you alive.



Actually, in most states there are strict time limits on receiving such benefits. And with the new push to expand "work requirements" for food stamps, Medicare, and welfare, *no one should assume *they can rely on such programs.

I find it interesting to watch the GOP push for block grants. These, too, will reduce eligibility for state programs. There was a good reason why the Feds started block grants, then eventually dropped them and went to the 50/50 matching funds procedure. 

As they say, history has but one page.....

Best of luck to the OP.


----------



## fmdog44

ClassicRockr said:


> If a person chooses to do so, they can get SS Early Retirement at 62. However, there are restrictions to SS Early Retirement. Medicare can start at 65.
> Due to much difficulty finding a descent paying job, I started my SS at 62. My UI had run out, so wife and I decided SS Early Retirement was best for me and us.
> 
> She’s the lucky one though, she has a nice paying job, plus gets her full SS as well. Once we move, her “good paying job” will be gone.



Taking SS at 62 is wrong- you get 8% more every year you wait, plus if you dedicate saving as much as possible for those extra years you will have a double whammy for you cash.


----------



## Don M.

fmdog44 said:


> Taking SS at 62 is wrong- you get 8% more every year you wait, plus if you dedicate saving as much as possible for those extra years you will have a double whammy for you cash.



Actually, it doesn't make much difference....it all depends upon how long a person lives.  The average life expectancy in the U.S. is slightly over 79...77 for males, and almost 82 for females.  Taking SS at 62 gives a person a nice income boost for 8 years more than waiting until age 70, albeit at a lower rate...and the average total payout is pretty much equal.  Plus, when a person is in their 60's, they are more likely able to enjoy some of that money, rather than spending much of it on doctors and drugs when they are in their 70's.  There is No "one size fits all".


----------



## Aunt Bea

I agree, no one size fits all!

I took SS at 62 because my life expectancy is not that great and it allowed me to leave IRA investments to grow at a higher tax-free rate until my RMDs kick in.

IMO the more financial options that you have the more sense it can make to take SS at 62.

If SS is going to be your major source of income in retirement and you are in good health it can pay big dividends to wait until 65 or even 70 before drawing SS.

We each need to run the numbers and decide what works best for our own situation.


----------



## StarSong

This is a very interesting thread even for those whose finances are not in dire straits.


----------



## CarolfromTX

StarSong said:


> This is a very interesting thread even for those whose finances are not in dire straits.



As a cautionary tale, if nothing else.


----------



## Colleen

Mr. T.....I'm late to the party, as usual, but hopefully you're situation has changed for the better.

This was our retirement situation back in 2001. My dear hubby had a tough, physical job his whole life and by age 61, he was worn out. We sold our house and everything we owned and bought a 5th-wheel and truck, which we had payments on. We bummed around the country for 3 1/2 years and lived in our 5th-wheel. We eventually bought a house in TX and settled down for a few years and I went back to work. Fast forward to 2014 when we moved to AZ for a drier climate. We got rid of a ton of "stuff" that was not necessary and it felt so good to do so. The house we bought was a huge 4 bedroom, 5 bath on 1/2 acre with a swimming pool. It was not the house I wanted. It cost way too much even though we had no problems with affording it and keeping it up. Thank goodness for hubby's pension and both our SS. After 3 years, we wondered why we were spending so much money on such a big house for just the 2 of us. We sold it last summer and downsized quite a bit and we love our cozy house that we're a lot happier in. We're able to save quite a bit on money every month and we've been able to do several upgrades to the house.

The thing is..."stuff" is not important. It becomes baggage over time and feels like an anchor. Get rid of it. Downsize in every way you can. Believe me, you'll be much happier and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.


----------



## KingsX

Colleen said:


> Mr. T.....I'm late to the party, as usual, but hopefully you're situation has changed for the better.
> 
> This was our retirement situation back in 2001. My dear hubby had a tough, physical job his whole life and by age 61, he was worn out. We sold our house and everything we owned and bought a 5th-wheel and truck, which we had payments on. We bummed around the country for 3 1/2 years and lived in our 5th-wheel. We eventually bought a house in TX and settled down for a few years and I went back to work. *Fast forward to 2014 when we moved to AZ for a drier climate.*  We got rid of a ton of "stuff" that was not necessary and it felt so good to do so. The house we bought was a huge 4 bedroom, 5 bath on 1/2 acre with a swimming pool. It was not the house I wanted. It cost way too much even though we had no problems with affording it and keeping it up. Thank goodness for hubby's pension and both our SS. After 3 years, we wondered why we were spending so much money on such a big house for just the 2 of us. We sold it last summer and downsized quite a bit and we love our cozy house that we're a lot happier in. We're able to save quite a bit on money every month and we've been able to do several upgrades to the house.
> 
> The thing is..."stuff" is not important. It becomes baggage over time and feels like an anchor. Get rid of it. Downsize in every way you can. Believe me, you'll be much happier and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.




If one wanted to move to a drier climate than humid Houston or Dallas...
one might consider west Texas [Odessa, Midland, El Paso, etc] where
the cost of living is cheaper and one can still take advantage of Texas' 
no state income tax.

.


----------



## Colleen

We lived in Victoria and it was pretty humid and we couldn't enjoy the outdoors much and the mosquitoes were the size of chickens...haha...everything's bigger in TX, right?   It's definitely cheaper to live there, I agree. Arizona has become expensive and we have to pay taxes on hubby's pension! I would go back to TX but hubby doesn't want to for health reasons.


----------



## NewRetire18

Mr X said:


> You must have one of those magic mirrors!



Nah. It makes me look fat...


----------



## Kitties

CarolfromTX said:


> As a cautionary tale, if nothing else.



The ones who need the cautionary tale on not on this forum. Yes many have made mistakes. I've seen a couple of less than kind posts in this thread.


----------



## CarolfromTX

Kitties said:


> The ones who need the cautionary tale on not on this forum. Yes many have made mistakes. I've seen a couple of less than kind posts in this thread.



Alas, the truth is often less than kind, and can even be brutal. As I read through the thread, I became less and  less sympathetic 
toward the OP, who, by his own admission, made good money all his life, yet failed to save or invest a nickel. He drove BMW's and ate out every night. And to top it off, he showed nothing but contempt for "the divided states of America" and people who did not vote the way he thought they should have, and was dreading the thought of possibly having to live among what he clearly considers to be inferiors. It's one thing to make a few mistakes, as we all do. It's another to make them over and over again, without learning. Perhaps, as you say, the people on this forum don't need a cautionary tale, but maybe they know someone younger who does.


----------



## JimW

CarolfromTX said:


> Alas, the truth is often less than kind, and can even be brutal. As I read through the thread, I became less and  less sympathetic
> toward the OP, who, by his own admission, made good money all his life, yet failed to save or invest a nickel. He drove BMW's and ate out every night. And to top it off, he showed nothing but contempt for "the divided states of America" and people who did not vote the way he thought they should have, and was dreading the thought of possibly having to live among what he clearly considers to be inferiors. It's one thing to make a few mistakes, as we all do. It's another to make them over and over again, without learning. *Perhaps, as you say, the people on this forum don't need a cautionary tale, but maybe they know someone younger who does.*



The younger generations after the Baby Boomers are more in debt than any other generations in history. This type of free wheelin behavior is much more prominent among younger folks these days and is getting worse.


----------



## Colleen

CarolfromTX said:


> Alas, the truth is often less than kind, and can even be brutal. As I read through the thread, I became less and  less sympathetic
> toward the OP, who, by his own admission, made good money all his life, yet failed to save or invest a nickel. He drove BMW's and ate out every night. And to top it off, he showed nothing but contempt for "the divided states of America" and people who did not vote the way he thought they should have, and was dreading the thought of possibly having to live among what he clearly considers to be inferiors. It's one thing to make a few mistakes, as we all do. It's another to make them over and over again, without learning. Perhaps, as you say, the people on this forum don't need a cautionary tale, but maybe they know someone younger who does.



Well said! We've all made mistakes in life and our neglect to learn to be financially responsible when you have the means to do so is one thing but, in my case, I never had any money to "put aside" for the future. I had an ex husband that spent every nickel we made on his own selfish needs even though we also had good paying jobs. It wasn't until I remarried in 1997 (I was 51) that I was able to start socking money away. How quickly the years go by and the younger generation will need over a million dollars to live on in their retirement years, according to recent reports. I thought I'd be young forever and would continue to work and make more money but when my husband retired in 2001, we learned quickly that his pension didn't go very far. How do you get this message through to the younger generation that they will be in a world of hurt if they haven't prepared. I don't think parents talk to their kids about money...and they should. I wish my parents would have sat me down and explained how the world works  We're not hurting at this stage in our lives but we could have done way better.


----------



## KingsX

KingsX said:


> Unless bad choices make you bankrupt.
> 
> I have a friend who always earned more money than me.  But while I saved, she spent.
> Currently she gets more SS income than I do. But she is not able to hold onto money.
> She doesn't have a lot of material things. But somehow she manages to squander a lot
> of money.  When she sold her paid off house she blew through all that money in a only
> a few years... and now has nothing to show for it.




My friend is in the bankruptcy process now.

She keeps wondering when will she get new credit cards.

I have tried to advise her that when she does get credit cards again
how to handle them [ie, pay them off every month.]  But I can tell she is
not listening. Just recently she let it slip that she still goes to Starbucks
for their expensive coffee. 

.


----------



## Lethe200

Colleen said:


> .....How do you get this message through to the younger generation that they will be in a world of hurt if they haven't prepared.


 
Actually, Millennial parents are doing much, much better than anyone else at saving:

Forbes, October 2017:
*Millennials May End Up Saving More For Retirement Than Their Parents' Generation*

NerdWallet study reports that “millennial parents may be out-saving parents of every other generation in terms of retirement.”

Here’s the breakdown:



Millennial parents put 10% of their annual income into their retirement accounts. Millennial parents are defined as parents 18 to 34.
Gen X parents put 8% of their annual income into their retirement accounts. Gen X parents are defined as parents 34 to 55.
Baby boomer parents put 5% of their annual income into their retirement accounts. Baby boomer parents are defined as parents 55 or older.
 
All of this information reflects the median retirement contribution for each generation. While it is possible that boomer retirement contributions could be slowing down as they near retirement, NerdWallet says that all respondents of the survey are employed, so “retired baby boomers did not skew that generation’s contribution rate.”


----------



## StarSong

Lethe200 said:


> Actually, Millennial parents are doing much, much better than anyone else at saving:
> 
> Forbes, October 2017:
> *Millennials May End Up Saving More For Retirement Than Their Parents' Generation*
> 
> NerdWallet study reports that “millennial parents may be out-saving parents of every other generation in terms of retirement.”
> 
> Here’s the breakdown:
> 
> 
> 
> Millennial parents put 10% of their annual income into their retirement accounts. Millennial parents are defined as parents 18 to 34.
> Gen X parents put 8% of their annual income into their retirement accounts. Gen X parents are defined as parents 34 to 55.
> Baby boomer parents put 5% of their annual income into their retirement accounts. Baby boomer parents are defined as parents 55 or older.
> 
> All of this information reflects the median retirement contribution for each generation. While it is possible that boomer retirement contributions could be slowing down as they near retirement, NerdWallet says that all respondents of the survey are employed, so “retired baby boomers did not skew that generation’s contribution rate.”



That's been my personal observation, too.  Their parents and grandparents have instilled in them the importance of saving for retirement, which quite frankly was barely discussed with Boomers when we were in our twenties and thirties never mind our teens.  

My husband and I showed our kids power bills, mortgage payments, etc., when they were still in middle school to give them a sense of what it cost to support a household.  It was not to scare them but rather to educate them.  Many times they have expressed appreciation for sharing that information, especially because many of their contemporaries were clueless about that aspect of life.  

p.s.  Not to over generalize, but I think the Millennials are a spectacular group of young people who get unfairly dissed by Boomers.


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## Shalimar

StarSong said:


> That's been my personal observation, too.  Their parents and grandparents have instilled in them the importance of saving for retirement, which quite frankly was barely discussed with Boomers when we were in our twenties and thirties never mind our teens.
> 
> My husband and I showed our kids power bills, mortgage payments, etc., when they were still in middle school to give them a sense of what it cost to support a household.  It was not to scare them but rather to educate them.  Many times they have expressed appreciation for sharing that information, especially because many of their contemporaries were clueless about that aspect of life.
> 
> p.s.  Not to over generalize, but I think the Millennials are a spectacular group of young people who get unfairly dissed by Boomers.


I think they are spectacular also.


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## Jackie22

I've scrimped and saved most all my life, now that I'm old I do not have to and don't.


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## KingsX

StarSong said:


> That's been my personal observation, too.  Their parents and grandparents have instilled in them the importance of saving for retirement, which quite frankly was barely discussed with Boomers when we were in our twenties and thirties never mind our teens.




Many boomers [like me] had depression era parents who taught them to be thrifty and save.  My  father was thrifty and saved.  He was able to buy a house and small farm, raise three children,  and retire at age 62.  He did all that on one blue-collar salary as my mother was a homemaker.

In my Texas elementary school,  my teacher taught us about saving money. She took my class on a field trip to the local bank on the town square to open savings accounts.

When I was in junior high school,  civics class was required during which we were taught about the economy and personal finance.

.


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## mathjak107

Don M. said:


> I think most retirees fall into one of two categories.....1, being those who recognized that they too would some day grow old and retire, and managed their finances accordingly....and 2, those who lived only for "today", and gave little thought to what the future might hold.
> 
> I am often amazed at some of the reports I read about how little some Seniors have managed to set aside for their retirements.




there are articles daily about supposedly how little everyone has and most articles lack even a hint of credibility .

the reality is no one knows what anyone really has . in fact there is whole under ground off the books economy going on . everyone seems to have what they do workout in the end. they may not like the lifestyle but they make it work .

far to many spend to much time poking their nose in to what others have or don't have.  they would be far better served learning to make their own plans better


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## gennie

Actually I did plan and am doing OK but not great.  i did not anticipate inflation rate.


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## StarSong

mathjak107 said:


> there are articles daily about supposedly how little everyone has and most articles lack even a hint of credibility .
> 
> the reality is no one knows what anyone really has . in fact there is whole under ground off the books economy going on . everyone seems to have what they do workout in the end. they may not like the lifestyle but they make it work .
> 
> far to many spend to much time poking their nose in to what others have or don't have.  they would be far better served learning to make their own plans better




I agree that many of the official reports of people's assets often seems unlikely.  We all figure out how to manage as best we can.  

The underground (cash) economy is much more robust in New York and its surrounding area than in many other parts of the country, Los Angeles included.  I know, having lived in both places.  For instance, "under the table jobs" for teens are virtually nonexistent in LA, but when I visit my NY & NJ relatives their kids all work for cash.  (Meantime they have enormous US flags flying on their front porches and patriotic bumper stickers plastered on their cars - but that's another thread altogether.)


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## Patnono

Mr X said:


> Hello, folks!
> 
> Quick summary:
> 
> I'm 55, my wife will turn 60 this year. I have worked in IT industry for 30 years - the kind of jobs with good salaries, but a DIY approach to retirement savings. Result: I have no 401, no IRA, no pension - nothing. I'm still working, making more then I ever have, but it's only a matter of time before I'm replaced by a new grad. My wife works as an aid for the school district. The pay is terrible, but insurance is good and there is a retirement plan that will pay about $400/month if she were to quit in two years, a bit more as time goes on.
> 
> We have no savings. Debt consists of a couple credit cards and an IRS payment plan - about 5K total debt. Equity in our house is between 50k - 100k, depending on who you ask (neighbor just sold his place for top dollar, so I'm figuring 70 - 100 is more realistic.) There is still an eternity left on mortgage. Monthly housing nut (mortgage, insurance, taxes) is about $1150, which is less than a decent apartment around here.
> 
> My wife has diabetes (manageable) , so health care costs will be an issue. That is why her benefits more than compensate for low pay (plus she gets summers off). Health care won't be an issue for me, as I have decided to make my unhealthy lifestyle a part of my exit strategy. I don't go for preventative tests and will let nature take it's course. We don't have kids, so it's not as selfish as it may sound.
> 
> I've read all there is to say on how to "fix" our situation and, frankly, it's no help. If I was able to keep my current job, at my current salary for 10 more years and put 30% of my gross income into an employer-matched retirement fund, then, yes, there would be hope. Unfortunately (as stated in paragraph 1) that's not realistic.
> 
> So I guess I am asking for stories from the trenches. I'd like to hear from people in my position who are little farther down the road. Did you find a way to make enough money to keep your home and downsize your lifestyle? Did you buy a trailer on a big lot in some rural local and live cheap? Did you decide to live in a van? Where still able to move back into your parent's basement?
> 
> I don't mean for this sound flippant. My wife and I have obviously put ourselves in a terrible situation, but I'd really like to find some options other than "start eating cat food now and put rest of your $ in a company sponsored IRA."



Hi, I had to retire early due to my anxiety, I had about 40 thousand in debt.  My anxiety was so bad that I hadn't given my debit a second thought.  I ended up having to file bankruptcy, which is a 10 years worth of consequences. I can't work even PT because of my anxiety. I'm living on SSI n my retirement savings which isn't much.  I'm looking to rent a room, problem is they might want to check my credit?  So I'm scared for my future.  I have no one to turn too.  My kids can't handle my anxiety.  At least you have some income.  I'm living on borrowed time.  I can't change anything, it is what it is, I just pray every day.  Wish you the best


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## StarSong

Patnono, you've been mentioning your housing dilemma for a couple of months.  Have you made any progress on that front?


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## Patnono

Yes n No, I've placed an ad on a website to rent a room.  Some of them want as much an apartment?  I got applications for senior housing, of course there's a waiting list for All of them.  I haven't given up.  Thanks for asking.


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## Knight

Patnono by posting you want to rent a room that clearly indicates you don't have a lot of "stuff" to move anywhere with. Toss in " living on SSI n my retirement saving" both sources of income that can be transferred anywhere. A bonus for not being locked into where you are now would be.

"I have no one to turn too. My kids can't handle my anxiety."

Since you have obviously have access to a computer spending time looking for a place to live you can afford would benefit you more.

Just for fun I typed this in Google [rooms for rent in Kansas] found this apartment 
Clay Terrace
9327 NE 79th Street, Kansas City, MO 64158
Exact Match
1 Bed from $585 - $595

Doing something positive to change your anxiety or at least the part about your inability to afford a place to live would be a step you could take.


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## StarSong

Knight - I was thinking along the same lines, but my inclination was to suggest a mobile or RV park that has park models or used RVs for sale.  AZ, NM and other areas in the southwest are loaded with these kinds of parks.  Many charge inexpensive rent or purchase options.  If your family is still in CA, Patnono, some of these places would be a mere car ride away.


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## Colleen

Knight said:


> Patnono by posting you want to rent a room that clearly indicates you don't have a lot of "stuff" to move anywhere with. Toss in " living on SSI n my retirement saving" both sources of income that can be transferred anywhere. A bonus for not being locked into where you are now would be.
> 
> "I have no one to turn too. My kids can't handle my anxiety."
> 
> Since you have obviously have access to a computer spending time looking for a place to live you can afford would benefit you more.
> 
> Just for fun I typed this in Google [rooms for rent in Kansas] found this apartment
> Clay Terrace
> 9327 NE 79th Street, Kansas City, MO 64158
> Exact Match
> 1 Bed from $585 - $595
> 
> Doing something positive to change your anxiety or at least the part about your inability to afford a place to live would be a step you could take.




This was my thoughts also. Also, what StarSong said  I've been in situations like Patnono in my younger years. My ex took off with everything including the car. I was 50 years old and had no way to work except walk 4 miles one way.  I made $5/hr. and worked part-time. I had no family and my "church family" that was a big part of my life for 12 years while I was married to my ex, deserted me and turned their back on me. I was too old to get any kind of assistance because I didn't have kids and too young to collect SS. I lived in the east at the time so I had horrendous heating bills in the winter. It was a very dark time in my life and I didn't know where to turn. I went to the unemployment office all the time to look for a decent job, but I was too old (they didn't come right out and say that, but that's what it was). I even tried getting a job in a larger city about 40 miles away, but no dice. Talk about anxiety!! I weighed 98 pounds and I seldom ate a meal. I lived on toast. 

A Higher Power was watching over me, however, and did bring someone from my past back into my life. Everything changed for me at that point. 

What I'm saying is...your circumstances can change if you help yourself. 

One thing I want to point out...maybe relocation is the answer. I've lived in CA and I know how expensive it is. Personally...I don't get the attraction of CA and I'd never live there again. That said....I've lived in a LOT of states and the most affordable I've ever lived in was TX. We live in AZ and I love the weather (we're in the NW, close to Las Vegas and at 3400 ft. elevation, so we get milder weather than Phoenix), but it's not as cheap to live here as TX. We moved to AZ 4 years ago because of less humidity than TX.

Either way....maybe start looking into making a new life for yourself somewhere that you can afford. Good luck.


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## Patnono

Thanks for writing, I looked into Texas, El paso 1 bedroom apartment $445.  The thing I need to consider is my age 63 and my health, I have diabetes and if something happens to me?  I'll be alone and my kids probably wouldn't be able to drop what their doing to help me since it would be my decision.  So that's something I need to consider?  
I've lived in California all my life and I don't get it either the fascination with it? I'm guessing the weather?  Cause it is very expensive &#55357;&#56854; there are jobs here, but won't pay enough to live here.    I've had a rough past too, my ex-husband was verbally abusive to me and our kids and had a double life he had 2 other kids with 2 other women. Pretty sure this was going on the whole time we were married?  I left pretty much with the clothes on our backs.  We were homeless for about a month staying at my cousin's house who pretty much you can tell didn't want us there?  So I was under pressure to find us a place to live.  He's miserable with the woman he's with now.  That was almost 20 years ago. That was the BEST decision I ever made.


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## KingsX

Patnono said:


> Thanks for writing, I looked into Texas, El paso 1 bedroom apartment $445.  The thing I need to consider is my age 63 and my health, I have diabetes and if something happens to me?  I'll be alone and my kids probably wouldn't be able to drop what their doing to help me since it would be my decision.  So that's something I need to consider?
> 
> .




Lots of military and military vets live in El Paso.

.


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## Patnono

My father was born there, but looks like moving out of state is not a option, looking to rent a room.


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## KingsX

Patnono said:


> I looked into Texas, El paso 1 bedroom apartment $445.  The thing I need to consider is my age 63 and my health, I have diabetes and if something happens to me?  I'll be alone and my kids probably wouldn't be able to drop what their doing to help me since it would be my decision.  So that's something I need to consider?





Patnono said:


> My father was born there, but looks like moving out of state is not a option, looking to rent a room.




If you want to be close to your children... can't you stay with your children ?

If you are going to rent a room,  why not rent a room from one of them ??

.


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## Patnono

They live with me, and my grandson who has enough energy to like up the city.  I need to move because my daughter seems to think that because he's my grandson that I should babysit him? She sometimes takes advantage of that. Doesn't clean up after him and leaves piles of dishes in the sink. 
This has caused tension between us, I'm retired and my health is not the best.  I guess because I'm retired she feels more entitled for me to do what she wants?  So me moving will be the best for my health and the relationship.


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## StarSong

Patnono said:


> They live with me, and my grandson who has enough energy to like up the city.  I need to move because my daughter seems to think that because he's my grandson that I should babysit him? She sometimes takes advantage of that. Doesn't clean up after him and leaves piles of dishes in the sink.
> This has caused tension between us, I'm retired and my health is not the best.  I guess because I'm retired she feels more entitled for me to do what she wants?  So me moving will be the best for my health and the relationship.



I must have misunderstood your circumstances.  My take was that you needed to move because of dire financial circumstances, not because of family problems.  That's a whole other kettle of fish.  Which isn't to say it's less serious, but it's definitely different.


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## Patnono

Financial is also the other reason, she does not help with that, my savings is dwindling down. Since I pay for pretty much for everything.
I'm being made to feel like I live with THEM?
We haven't been talking much, there's no consideration for my age and health.  I did 32 years in a factory, which has taken a toll on me physically.


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## CindyLouWho

Patnono, Even though there is tension between you and your daughter, and I assume you've both tried to talk it over, just be sure you don't jump from the frying pan into the fire. 
If you move or she were to move out and you were then alone, would that then create a new anxiety? 
Sometimes we are looking for a perfect or near perfect situation, but in the end the situation were are currently in turns out to be the next best thing after all.  Just food for thought....I've dealt with immeasurable anxiety over changing circumstances over the last few years.....and yes, anxiety, just plain stinks.


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## Patnono

Yes, we have tried talking, it went in one ear and out the other, Normal.  I don't think it would be worse me leaving or her leaving because she doesn't help in any way financially, it's draining my retirement savings me paying for everything.
I've had offers for rooms to rent where I would SAVE so much money.  She doesn't get it???  I'm giving her till beginning of next year. she does have a place to stay, with my oldest daughter.


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## CindyLouWho

Oh, I see, well in that case, yes, if it's a financial problem too,  where you're going to be left with no money since she takes but does not contribute..... you're choice may be made for you already. If you can save money better to take action now than wait til the end and be broke. 
Something though is still making you stay or not kick her out to save your own skin, financially?


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## Patnono

Yea, I don't want anyone to say that I didn't give her any notice.  I do still care what happens to her and to give her and me ample time to get things together.  I have a lot to get rid of.  
Don't believe I'll get any help with this because I've been told this is my Stuff, yes but physically it will be difficult to do.


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## Colleen

Patnono...I think you need more help than we can give you. Good luck.


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## Patnono

I don't think you can speak for the WHOLE site?  Most give helpful information,  I'm not necessarily looking for help, just to vent sometimes.  I know it's something I've got to handle myself.


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## Knight

Anxiety disorders are the most common of emotional disorders.


https://www.disabilitysecrets.com/medicine-medication-prescription-drugs-anxiety-disorder.html


Trying to offer help & understand your situation is what the good people of this forum have been trying to do. It might have been better if you began with something like " I need to vent" 


I have never suffered from an anxiety disorder so I can't relate to your condition. I honestly had no clue what the most common cause was so I Googled for a definition. The opening sentence explains what I found.


Many if not most of your posts have described lack of caring on the part of your daughter. If it's common for emotion to cause the disorder is it possible that you could get emotional relief if you forced your daughter to leave now instead of the delay you are allowing?


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## Camper6

My advice.  Sell the house.  Get the money. Invest it. 

Move into an affordable apartment in case you lose your job and just keep working and saving money.

That's what I did.

And it's easier to keep working when you live in an apartment because there isn't half the chores that a house creates.

Did you enjoy your life so far?  That's all that counts.


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## jujube

StarSong said:


> Knight - I was thinking along the same lines, but my inclination was to suggest a mobile or RV park that has park models or used RVs for sale.  AZ, NM and other areas in the southwest are loaded with these kinds of parks.  Many charge inexpensive rent or purchase options.  If your family is still in CA, Patnono, some of these places would be a mere car ride away.



This is an incredibly good time of the year to find used RVs and the like in Arizona.  The consignment lots are stuffed to the gills with RVs that retirees have given up on to return to the north to live with children, live in retirement homes, etc.  They go "cheap".


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## jujube

Patnono, I'm confused.  Maybe this has been answered elsewhere but I haven't seen it.  Do you own the house or just rent the house?  

If you do own the house and plan to move out, are you going to sell the house or just let your daughter and grandchildren remain?   Do you own it outright or do you still have a mortgage?

If you rent the house, can you hold on until your lease is up and then move, letting your daughter arrange her own lease on the house?

Is this your daughter's house?  If so, do you pay rent to her?


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## Patnono

Thanks for writing, I rent on a month to month basis. My daughter could not afford to live here, she can't give me any help as it is.  She only works PT,   She is supposed to be going to school but is procrastinating because I think she's scared of stepping out of the box into a new career.  She keeps making excuses, she's going to be 34 years old.  Time is running out on her cuz I'm looking to move beginning of next year. I've had offers for renting a room, putting applications for senior housing, there's a waiting list on that so renting a room for now would be best.


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## ronaldj

Easier said than done but you have to take care of yourselffirst.


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## Patnono

Thanks for writing, I agree that's why I'm going to do it, to save myself


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## Knight

Patnono said:


> Thanks for writing, I agree that's why I'm going to do it, to save myself 



Parenting is never easy. Raising kids to be self thinking and independent and able to function in society is one way. Another is to provide for them to be dependent. Deciding which helps them best when we are no longer their support system is an individual choice. 


Helping occasionally finacially with a no interest loan & written agreement to be paid back might sound harsh but when adult children take responsibility for themselves, they and society are the better for it. 


It's not to late to save yourself and just maybe help your daughter to.


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## StarSong

At every moment each of us has the option and the responsibility to choose anew the direction our lives will go.  

Patnono, I wish you the strength and courage you'll need to extricate yourself from this difficult situation.  Failing that, I wish you the ability to manage your finances and personal anguish should you choose to remain where you are.


----------

