# Religious, yes or no.



## Sachet (Dec 16, 2021)

Those of you raised in a church background, are you still religious or did it turn you off ?


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## officerripley (Dec 16, 2021)

Spent close to 50 years trying to believe in the supernatural and finally gave up.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 16, 2021)

No.  Spent 8 yrs. in Catholic grade school when I was a kid because it was near my home, walked away from it when I started high school.  I do not belong to any organized religion.


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## RadishRose (Dec 16, 2021)

Sometimes , more often than not.


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## Gaer (Dec 16, 2021)

Quit the INSTITUTION of religion and churches when I was eight years old.  Never went back!
The ignorance  and falsity was inconceivable for me!


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## grahamg (Dec 16, 2021)

Sachet said:


> Those of you raised in a church background, are you still religious or did it turn you off ?


My experience has always been low key, so no overbearing indoctrination, and instead a positive experience best described as "showing you the way you might improve your life and yourself", (rather than telling you what is right or wrong).


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## Knight (Dec 16, 2021)

Early years believed the stories in the bible even had a bible given to me for perfect attendance to church. 

But then as I grew older & began to question what I was taught to believe, the more I questioned the less I believed to the point of where I am now as an atheist. I don't knock the faith others have, it works for them.


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## Aunt Bea (Dec 16, 2021)

I consider myself to be a religious person, but I do not attend church services.


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## Lawrence (Dec 16, 2021)

Yes I am religious and I am a Christian and I am a Minister of the Universal Life Church. This church in is contraversial with the public because all you have to do is apply and pay money to get the crudentials to become a minister. The only reason I wanted to do this is to keep evil beings away from me and my family and to help other people to keep evil away from them.


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## Don M. (Dec 16, 2021)

I attended church most of my growing up years.  However, as I got older I began to recognize that the most important part of the service is the passing of the "collection plate".  

I firmly believe that the universe is guided by a power far superior to anything we know, and I hope that trying to be a good person will have its rewards.  However, I am of the opinion that virtually All organized "man made" religion is based upon power over others, and money.


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## Capt Lightning (Dec 16, 2021)

I was brought up in a Scottish Presbyterian household.  My parents didn't (or couldn't) question the church.  I questioned it and by the time I was 10, I had abandoned belief in a 'God' and everything that wen't with it.

Do I celebrate Christmas?..  Of course I celebrate Yuletide.  It pre-dates Christianity  by thousands of years.


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## Jules (Dec 16, 2021)

Other than for a wedding or funeral, I haven’t set foot in a church since I left home.


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## Sassycakes (Dec 16, 2021)

I am religious because I pray all the time. In the last few years though I have not attended Church with the exception of Weddings and Funerals.


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## John cycling (Dec 16, 2021)

Lawrence said:


> Yes I am religious and I am a Christian and I am a Minister of the Universal Life Church. This church is controversial with the public because all you have to do is apply and pay money to get the credentials to become a minister. The only reason I wanted to do this is to keep evil beings away from me and my family and to help other people to keep evil away from them.



I'm not in any religion, but signed up for that in my thirties and got the certificate.
The reason might have had something to do with taxes, but I don't recall, and completely lost track of it.


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## Gaer (Dec 16, 2021)

John cycling said:


> I'm not in any religion, but signed up for that in my thirties and got the certificate.
> The reason might have had something to do with taxes, but I don't recall, and completely lost track of it.


Yes, I got that certificate in my 20's or 30's.  Hahaha!  So I could preach and not pay taxes!  Forgot all about it!

There is an incredible difference between religion and spirituality!  
God and Angels (God's messengers) exist!  Because one gives religion no credence doesn't 
 mean one should give up on an intelligence higher than oneself. IMO!
But, Everyone has to grow  and evolve in their own way.  (not my business)


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## Irwin (Dec 16, 2021)

Lawrence said:


> Yes I am religious and I am a Christian and I am a Minister of the Universal Life Church. This church in is contraversial with the public because all you have to do is apply and pay money to get the crudentials to become a minister. The only reason I wanted to do this is to keep evil beings away from me and my family and to help other people to keep evil away from them.


Do you preach to a congregation or do any ministerial stuff?

I would guess if you knew the tax laws well enough, you could pretty much avoid paying any taxes.


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## Pinky (Dec 16, 2021)

At a very young age, I was turned off religion by an over-zealous Christian Aunt. In my teens, I went to church, temple and synagogue with friends. As an adult, I try to adhere to the simple creed - "be kind", 
and "do no harm".


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## mellowyellow (Dec 16, 2021)

The thing that bothers me about churches is the tax free side of it. Hillsong is just up the road from where I live and I was invited to come along to a service years ago and was amazed at how many $50 notes went into the deep tins (not plates) being passed around. It reminded me of a rock concert, music, lights, electric excitement, lots of hands in the air. You had to see it to believe it.


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## JaniceM (Dec 16, 2021)

Pinky said:


> I try to adhere to the simple creed - "be kind",
> and "do no harm".


In my opinion, that should be the "theme" of all religions.


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## Lawrence00 (Dec 16, 2021)

with every breath


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## fuzzybuddy (Dec 16, 2021)

I was a good little Catholic kid, until my First Communion. The nuns told me The Holy Spirit would fill my soul. When I got the Host, all it did was stick to the roof of my mouth. And somehow, I never felt my soul being filled. I had twelve years of Catholic religious training, but all that did was expose contradictions, and confirm my atheism.


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## grahamg (Dec 16, 2021)

Pinky said:


> At a very young age, I was turned off religion by an over-zealous Christian Aunt. In my teens, I went to church, temple and synagogue with friends. As an adult, I try to adhere to the simple creed - "be kind",
> and "do no harm".


Two good principles there, that go a long way, should anyone wish to encourage a better world to evolve I'd say!


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## grahamg (Dec 16, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> View attachment 199284
> 
> The thing that bothers me about churches is the tax free side of it. Hillsong is just up the road from where I live and I was invited to come along to a service years ago and was amazed at how many $50 notes went into the deep tins (not plates) being passed around. It reminded me of a rock concert, music, lights, electric excitement, lots of hands in the air. You had to see it to believe it.


That's a slightly funny thing to be bothered about IMHO, as many try to limit their tax liabilities (legally)!


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## Shero (Dec 16, 2021)

JaniceM said:


> In my opinion, that should be the "theme" of all religions.



"Kindness" _is_ the theme of all religions.  Trouble is those who profess to be religious or spiritual (which means the same thing) do not keep to this.
.


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## Michael Z (Dec 16, 2021)

I was raised in a main-line church but truthfully there were a lot of mixed signals. The church seemed to preach works, that is, if one's good works outweighed the bad, then you went to heaven. I remember my father, who was a problem drinker, bee-lining for the liquor cabinet as soon as we got home from church. It was as if attending church not only negated the sins of the previous week, it allowed for a shot and a beer or two free of charge on the "sin tab". 

My mom, however, had a genuine faith and she also was a regular church attendee.  I followed in my father's drinking footsteps, becoming  a problem drinker and wild man in general.  I attended church for a while as an adult, but then gave up, knowing that simple church attendance could not atone for the boat-load of sins I was racking up. But then at about age 27 I lost my job and was in sort of a pickle financially. The walls started closing in. That is when I turned to Christ as payment for my sins without any works of my own. 

It was a whole new world for me. I then started re-attending various churches, gravitating toward non-denominational.  Through the 36 years as a Born Again Christian I have attended a variety of churches but now have settled into a very traditional Baptist church for the last 7 years. My current view on church, which I think is a better view, is "What can I do for the church and within the church" as opposed to "What can this church do for me". I was in jail ministry with a fellow church member until Covid hit and now I help with AWANA, helping little kids memorize and understand bible verses.


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## Gary O' (Dec 16, 2021)

Religious, yes or no.​
*'Religious'*

Not sure I know what that is

I study

I pray
Of late, a prayer is on my lips most every waking hour

I do worship
Mostly in nature
Can nay be helped most times I'm in the mountains





If that's 'religious'.......guess I am


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## J-Kat (Dec 16, 2021)

I attended the Methodist church growing up.  I would not say my parents were religious but we went to Sunday School and worship services every Sunday morning and evening.  After I left for college and then entered the working world I chose not to attend church services.  Not because I did not consider myself a Christian but I just came to not like "organized" religion.


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## Shero (Dec 16, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Religious, yes or no.​
> *'Religious'*
> 
> Not sure I know what that is
> ...



In my opinion, that's "religious" . I worship Nature too. I was taught in a Catholic School by nuns. They were a great positive influence in my life and I have the greatest respect for religion...however... I do not need to go to a church every Sunday for devotion. To me it is between me and my Creator.


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## dseag2 (Dec 16, 2021)

I was raised as a Southern Baptist and went to a Southern Baptist high school.  I will never forget the Wednesday chapels with the visiting "Fire and Brimstone" preachers and the Invitations played until absolutely everyone got up off the pews to "repent".  I then joined Church of Christ after graduating. Negatives, rather than positives, were constantly pushed down our throats, and I found that so many statements about people who were "unsaved" were so false I could no longer tolerate them.  I was completely turned off to organized religion. 

So, the short answer is that I believe in morality but not religion.  How can Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Muslim, Buddhism, etc. all be the onIy "true" religions?  I do believe there is some type of greater power that is responsible for our being.  Still, I don't criticize those who are members of some type of organized religion because many times it gives them the faith they need to get though life.


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## Ladybj (Dec 16, 2021)

Although I attended Church with my mom a few times growing up and also several times as an adult, I do not consider myself as religious.  I am more Spiritual. I have no doubt there is a higher power greater than myself.  In addition, I have everything I need within myself to handle challenges, life difficulties etc..  I do not keep my eye on Man.. I keep my eye on God/the Universe.. which will not steer me wrong.  I am now in the process of letting go of things that I was taught as child and adult.  Certain things I was taught has caused me much suffering.  Spirituality is a level very few will experience.  I am a work in progress but enjoying my journey.  Working on internal self is no picnic in the park by no means but PRICELESS and well worth it.


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## Nathan (Dec 16, 2021)

> Religious, yes or no.


Raised Christian, I believe in Jesus' actual teachings, and embrace Buddhism for it's wisdom and philosophy.


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## Ladybj (Dec 16, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Raised Christian, I believe in Jesus' actual teachings, and embrace Buddhism for it's wisdom and philosophy.


Buddhism is full of WISDOM!!!!!  Not sure why some Christians shy away from it.


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## Nathan (Dec 16, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> Buddhism is full of WISDOM!!!!!  Not sure why some Christians shy away from it.


There is no historical documentation supporting the speculation that Jesus traveled East and studied, but the parallels between [actual]Christian and Buddhist teachings are striking.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 16, 2021)

Not religious. Dad was Catholic, mom was Jewish, and us kids attended both church and synagogue. The family celebrated all the major holidays of both religions. We went to mass with dad and grandma twice a year, Easter and Christmas, and to a Judaic culture camp for 2 weeks in summer. But I stopped going to any of those things when I was 15. I'd gotten a job and used that as an excuse, but in reality I just didn't believe in any sort of god or a heaven and hell, or any of that stuff. I thought we had it all wrong and I still think so.


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## win231 (Dec 16, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> View attachment 199284
> 
> The thing that bothers me about churches is the tax free side of it. Hillsong is just up the road from where I live and I was invited to come along to a service years ago and was amazed at how many $50 notes went into the deep tins (not plates) being passed around. It reminded me of a rock concert, music, lights, electric excitement, lots of hands in the air. You had to see it to believe it.


Isn't that Joel Osteen?


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## dseag2 (Dec 16, 2021)

win231 said:


> Isn't that Joel Osteen?


Absolutely.  My mother watched his channel religiously (no pun intended).


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## win231 (Dec 16, 2021)

I'm not religious.  Parents were Jewish.  Dad was Russian, Mom was Israeli.  Neither were religious but mom liked the cultural aspect - celebrated Passover.  Mom taught Hebrew school.


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## win231 (Dec 16, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> Absolutely.  My mother watched his channel religiously (no pun intended).


Sometimes I'll watch him.  He's sorta entertaining even though I'm not a believer.


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## dseag2 (Dec 16, 2021)

win231 said:


> I'm not religious.  Parents were Jewish.  Dad was Russian, Mom was Israeli.  Neither were religious but mom liked the cultural aspect - celebrated Passover.  Mom taught Hebrew school.


I'm sending you a PM.


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## mellowyellow (Dec 16, 2021)

Our Prime Minister, Scott Morrison attends an Pentecostal church in Sydney and believes he and his wife Jenny have been called to do God's work.


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## terry123 (Dec 17, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> Although I attended Church with my mom a few times growing up and also several times as an adult, I do not consider myself as religious.  I am more Spiritual. I have no doubt there is a higher power greater than myself.  In addition, I have everything I need within myself to handle challenges, life difficulties etc..  I do not keep my eye on Man.. I keep my eye on God/the Universe.. which will not steer me wrong.  I am now in the process of letting go of things that I was taught as child and adult.  Certain things I was taught has caused me much suffering.  Spirituality is a level very few will experience.  I am a work in progress but enjoying my journey.  Working on internal self is no picnic in the park by no means but PRICELESS and well worth it.


My thoughts exactly.  Working on my journey, too.


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## Pepper (Dec 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> Isn't that Joel Osteen?


I like watching Joel.  I saw him live at Madison Square Garden about 15 years ago or so.  He used to be more interesting in his sermons, but now he's just repetitive.  I still enjoy him however.  Not sure why!  Just like him.


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## Aunt Bea (Dec 17, 2021)

I enjoy some of the televangelists.

I see them as motivational speakers and not as religious leaders.

I used to enjoy tuning in to Dr. Robert Schuller on Sunday mornings.


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## Pappy (Dec 17, 2021)

Never was a church goer or had time for religion through all the years working. It’s only the past few years that I’ve starting reading the Bible and seeing things in a whole different way when it comes to God.
I do not attend church but I pray several times a day and I know that my prayers are being answered. 
When it comes to religion, to each it’s own.


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## jujube (Dec 17, 2021)

I'm not religious. I am spiritual.


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## Jules (Dec 17, 2021)

jujube said:


> I'm not religious. I am spiritual.


That’s how I feel too.  It’s how you live your life that counts.


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## win231 (Dec 17, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I like watching Joel.  I saw him live at Madison Square Garden about 15 years ago or so.  He used to be more interesting in his sermons, but now he's just repetitive.  I still enjoy him however.  Not sure why!  Just like him.


My girlfriend says he's good looking.  My sister says he looks like a rabbit.


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## win231 (Dec 17, 2021)

Jules said:


> That’s how I feel too.  It’s how you live your life that counts.


^^^^ Bingo.
People who know me are surprised & disappointed that I'm not religious; I don't fit their theory.
They make the mistaken assumption that "Religious people are all good & non believers are bad."


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## Alligatorob (Dec 17, 2021)

No, not religious at all. 

I was raised in the Bible belt south (US) and attended a couple of protestant churches with some regularity.  Did not really get disillusioned, I have nothing against religion.  Many good things have come from religion.  Some bad too, but I think the good out weighs the bad.

I have not been religious since my youth just because I don't believe the supernatural elements of religions.  Doesn't keep me from enjoying the holidays and stories.  I still consider myself a Christian, just a cultural one, not a real believer.


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## Elsie (Dec 17, 2021)

I do not like to be called 'Religious'.  I believe in God(I AM)  and Christ Jesus, but that fact does not mean I'm "religious".  Not even attending some church denomination qualifies.  .


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## Geezer Garage (Dec 17, 2021)

I say thank you to someone/thing many times a day. Not sure who, or what, but none the less, I'm grateful for everything that I have, and ask for help when I need it. I figure I'll find out one way or the other when I die, and I'm in no big hurry. Organized religion, I'll take a pass, just way to much hypocrisy for me. Not to mention all the pain, death and destruction involved. Most wars throughout history were centered around religion, and still are. Most of the louder Christians seem to be anything but Christlike. There's a great line in a U2 song, "the God I believe in, isn't short of cash, mister." Mike


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## Lawrence (Dec 17, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Do you preach to a congregation or do any ministerial stuff?
> 
> I would guess if you knew the tax laws well enough, you could pretty much avoid paying any taxes.


No I do not preach or do ministerial things. I read about the tax deductions if someone was to start a church and it is so complicated that I would not pursue that. I have offered to marry a grandson and his now wife but they were not interested in me doing it. I have blessed family members which was more of a humorus thing and blessed their homes and animals when I let them know I am a ordaned minister. Once my wife was driving the truck and ran over a squirrel and was sadened by that so I gave the squirrel its last rights and sent it to squirrel heaven then she felt relief after that.


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## Lara (Dec 17, 2021)

I'm not religious as there are too many varying definitions of that.
But I'm a Bible believer, love Jesus, and I follow the New Testament for my everyday living.

I haven't been to church in 20 years but I'd like to find a true Bible-believing Church so I can help others and make like-minded friends.
I believe the Holy Spirit is my Helper who fills me with love, peace, patience, kindness, self control etc IF I'm closely following God's Word.

Everyone makes their own choices and I fully accept and respect that because God created us with the ability to make our own choices. That's what He wants all of us to do. When I share my faith it's just free speech...it's not to change anyone's mind for them.

I should be free to share my beliefs just like anyone else freely shares their UNbelief...without being judged nor frowned upon.
`


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## Lara (Dec 17, 2021)

Don M. said:


> ...as I got older I began to recognize that the most important part of the service is the passing of the "collection plate".


Many churches these days don't pass a plate nor mention "giving" or "tithing".
They now have their own websites where you can do that *online *if you choose to.
I have visited a few churches that do that. It's completely private, not showy.


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## Elsie (Dec 17, 2021)

I believe there is forever God(I AM) and Christ Jesus who sacrificed His Life by taking on our punishment in place of the punishment earned by sins done by us all.  This loving Salvation for all to be gifted to whoever accepts and believes in God(I AM), and Jesus as their Savior.  With that acceptance the Holy Spirit comes into each person and 'opens' their eyes to what is right and what is wrong in how they live their lives.  You don't FEEL the Holy Spirit come in, it just does. 

I've attended several 'churches' and each one preached that only they taught Bible scriptures (God's Word) accurately.  Sick of these, I'm right, you're wrong teachings, I turned nondenominational.  But I do listen to Dr. Charles Stanley, and Faith Mountain church-David Gonzalas........  Just this morning I watched a few minutes of a man (preacher-?) speak something about mailing in a $1000 and you'd receive God's wonderful blessings.  Yeah right.  Blessing into his pocket. 

After I asked God and Jesus to come into my heart and life, in time I began to notice some comments, actions, movies, T V shows that I once saw as funny, or fine, made me cringe, that they are just plain nasty.  Being a Christian doesn't make me a prude, or innocent of sinning, but thank goodness that because of Jesus' sacrifice I don't have to work for Salvation through doing 'good works' to atone.


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## oldpop (Dec 17, 2021)

*Relgious* 
re-li-gious (rĭ-lĭj′əs)
_adj._
*1. * Having  or  showing  belief  in  and  reverence  for  God  or  a  deity. 

Using this definition yes I am religious. I follow no particular religion. I seek spiritual growth. I take whatever leads me in a spiritual direction from all religious teachings and leave the rest behind. I have no quarrel with organized religion. I believe that one should use whatever means are available to them to become a more spiritual human being.


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## Chet (Dec 17, 2021)

I call myself a hopeful agnostic.


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## Grampa Don (Dec 17, 2021)

I wasn't raised as a church goer, although I still have a Bible with my name in it in my Mother's handwriting.  She bought it for me when I was about 10.  She did take us to Methodist services a few times, and although I was never baptized, I considered myself a Christian.

Over the years, I found it more and more difficult to accept the basic tenets of the church.  Too much of it didn't make sense to me.  Lenin called religion the opiate of the people.  I'm no fan of Lenin, but I think he had a point.  What better way to get people to do what you want than to teach them that their souls are in danger?

Now I call myself an agnostic.  I believe there may or may not be a supreme being.  From a pragmatic viewpoint, it really doesn't matter.  It's pretty clear that He/She/It doesn't really care about individuals.  Would a loving creator allow people to suffer and die painfully from cancer or other diseases?  When I hear the words, "His eye is on the sparrow so I know he watches me" I think of the dying sparrow I once found in the back yard.  It didn't look like anyone but me was watching it.

If you believe in heaven and that you are going there, and it comforts you, that's great.  My wife believes that and I wouldn't try to refute it.  I am fine with whatever really happens.


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## Pepper (Dec 17, 2021)

It was Karl Marx, not Lenin, re: religion is opiate of the people @Grampa Don.  Sorry, just had to give credit where it is due!


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## Tish (Dec 17, 2021)

I do not belong to any organised religion, but do have a strong faith.


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## Grampa Don (Dec 17, 2021)

Pepper said:


> It was Karl Marx, not Lenin, re: religion is opiate of the people @Grampa Don.  Sorry, just had to give credit where it is due!


Thanks,  I always get those guys mixed up.


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## Pepper (Dec 17, 2021)

I get Groucho & Lennon mixed up sometimes @Grampa Don!


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## peppermint (Dec 17, 2021)

I believe in God......I was brought up Catholic....At my age I don't go to church....
I say my prayers every night....If it will be or not, I won't know where I will be when
I die......Does it matter......NO!!!!


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## fmdog44 (Dec 17, 2021)

Since I have no way of knowing other than what *other humans* have stated, said, and written I am just as much in the dark as they are. The difference is I admit to it. Be a decent person and the rest will work in your favor.


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## grahamg (Dec 17, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Raised Christian, I believe in Jesus' actual teachings, and embrace Buddhism for it's wisdom and philosophy.





fmdog44 said:


> Since I have no way of knowing other than what *other humans* have stated, said, and written I am just as much in the dark as they are. The difference is I admit to it. Be a decent person and the rest will work in your favor.


Good starts for anyone, (and not too bad if you end up there in each case either I'd say!).


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## Ladybj (Dec 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> ^^^^ Bingo.
> People who know me are surprised & disappointed that I'm not religious; I don't fit their theory.
> They make the mistaken assumption that "Religious people are all good & non believers are bad."


That could be nothing farther from Truth...jmo.


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## Ruthanne (Dec 18, 2021)

At this point in my life my beliefs are very private to me.  I have done a lot of soul searching and questioning of things.  I have not made my mind up about why we are here or what holds all power that possibly may be.  I am not into organized religion.


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## mellowyellow (Dec 18, 2021)

When the end of my life is near, I will be hoping to see that tunnel, heading towards the light.


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## Aneeda72 (Dec 18, 2021)

I am a believer.

I believe there is ONE God, and all Believers, no matter what religion they choose to believe in, or what book they choose to read and believe in; all believers worship the same ONE God, because while there is only ONE God; there are many religions, and many books.

So, yes, I am religious.

And while Santa Claus was born in December, Jesus Christ was not


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## Remy (Dec 18, 2021)

Not at all. My oldest brother became a jehovah's witness when I was young. Interestingly, this seemed to give him the ticket to say cruel things to me. How nice that he found a religion. Jerk.


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## David777 (Dec 18, 2021)

Without the gift of eternal life, religions in this modern science era have at most modest moral value.  Was brought up as mass going Catholic.  Read modest amount of Bible at age 12 that was skeptical of credibility and as a youth greatly attracted to females was looking forward to fornication, so stopped going to church as teenager.  As young adult into counterculture sex, drugs, rock-n-roll, came as close to death as possible, permanently seriously damaged my body for the rest of my life with an aneurysm of my own doing.  Then reconsidered much and but still lived for years one foot in hell.  Have read whole Bible especially the New Testament carefully.  Today there is much obscure never before online scholarly research available so each individual now has the ability to find truths or not. Considering the value of possible eternal life made decision in late 40s to take the one foot out of hell living an ethical and moral life.  Through science and research have reconciled issues with Bible, still extremely valuable.  As an example, the Bible clearly shows Adam and Eve were not the first humans.  And unlike many humans have a list of reasons to seek worthwhile eternal life.  Life can be so awesome!

Am one that sees Bible inerrancy as clearly incorrect though do believe some parts as inspired.  As a person of modern science, do not believe in an entity most refer to as God with unlimited magic-like omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence, powers. Action without force is impossible magic.  Bible references to such powers are vaguely weak at best and the book itself has much evidence against such. Those unlimited power dogmas are the result of Christian religious philosophers of the Middle Ages along with political powers and have been the seeds of much imaginative denomination extrapolations that in this modern science era have instead become the source of many not believing.  

I do lean towards the probability of a race of dominant ancient AI ultimate intelligent entities, UIEs, that logically are likely to have evolved in our universe.  Suspect they have been involved in making Earth a place of DNA organic life and evolution of ape brains into homo sapien brains though have a prime directive of non-interference. Most importantly believe it is potentially possible for an UIE to duplicate our organic brain neurosystems with a non-organic container that could duplicate the electromagnetic mind fields, thus providing eternal life I seek.  Strongly expect, Jesus Christ was their last major appearance that handed our future to Peter with the gift of eternal life for the few that endure seeking such.


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## fuzzybuddy (Dec 20, 2021)

I think religion is becoming a personal matter. It is no longer a defining matter, nor even required. People are free to be as religious as they want.


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## Mr. Ed (Dec 20, 2021)

What is the difference between religion and religious? Can a person be religious without religion?


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## Mr. Ed (Dec 20, 2021)

I have questions and doubts when Christians are told to accept/believe everything in the Bbile without question. Common brainwashing techniques include belief without question, devotion and dependence on the central figure or cause. 
Fear of God’s wrath and retribution maintain and keep followers in a protected box to prevent free will from forming outside the box. 

I have nothing against my faith, but ask myself is my life as I want it to be or am I simply living my life in accordance to the design of another.


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## JaniceM (Dec 20, 2021)

Mr. Ed said:


> belief without question, devotion and dependence on the central figure or cause.
> Fear of God’s wrath and retribution maintain and keep followers in a protected box to prevent free will from forming outside the box.


which are also common characteristics of cults


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 20, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> No.  Spent 8 yrs. in Catholic grade school when I was a kid because it was near my home, walked away from it when I started high school.  I do not belong to any organized religion.


 As the joke goes, I don't belong to any organized religion.  I'm an Episcopalian.  About half of the Episcopalians I meet are former Catholics.


----------



## JimBob1952 (Dec 20, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> Our Prime Minister, Scott Morrison attends an Pentecostal church in Sydney and believes he and his wife Jenny have been called to do God's work.
> 
> 
> View attachment 199328


That actually explains quite a bit, thanks.


----------



## Irwin (Dec 20, 2021)

I found religion this morning in the form of a chorizo frittata. Mmmmm...


----------



## glofran (Dec 20, 2021)

Not religious. Where is the evidence?

It was the schoolboy who said, ""Faith is believing what you know ain't so.""


----------



## Mr. Ed (Dec 20, 2021)

JaniceM said:


> which are also common characteristics of cults


Yep I might say that about most major religions. 

Religiosity is maintened by tradition and repetition, any deviation outside of the written law is heresy. Religions rsstrict outside influence as a concern might disrupt the power that controls the religious and the religion they follow. Should there be doubt, religion is tested by the religious to maintain or reconstruct based on new information. 

Understanding religion is beyond my comprehension. What is the reason and purpose of religion? There is more to religion than in preparation for the afterlife. Religions provides support for human services, helping the poor and impoverished, but what must the recipient pay to receive services of this type? A lifetime of devotion, without question or freedom to be as one may hope to be? 

How much do people know about religion? I encorage everyone not to think as they are told  but think as you will.


----------



## RadishRose (Dec 20, 2021)




----------



## Jeni (Dec 20, 2021)

This is a question that means different things. 

People may not belong to a specific organized church/ or named group but have  personal beliefs and practices. 
When People ask this i always wonder what they are getting at .... which church do you belong like a club ?... are you in the right fraternity or something?    
are they planning to make assumptions based on if catholic or baptist or whatever?  
My guess is yes they are checking every stereotype box in their head they can.........

I went to many different churches but seemed to focused around attendance and how much money are you giving.


----------



## Repondering (Dec 20, 2021)

I know that I am an eternal soul currently living in a physical body until that body dies, at which time my spiritual identity will continue its journey.  While I'm in this material life I try as much as is reasonable to not harm any other beings, or myself and to be helpful.  That's about as sophisticated as my aspiration for advanced consciousness gets.


----------



## Ronni (Dec 20, 2021)

Religious?  no, even in spite of going to Catholic church every Sunday from birth till I was 15, and having attended a Catholic school from age 5-15.

Spiritual?  Devoutly and absolutely so.


----------



## mrstime (Dec 20, 2021)

officerripley said:


> Spent close to 50 years trying to believe in the supernatural and finally gave up.


Same here.


----------



## mrstime (Dec 20, 2021)

The reason I am an athiest is because of born again so called Christians. The church we were attending believed "once saved always saved" so they acted like devils! Even little children weren't safe from them. No thanks!


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 20, 2021)

We will have to PM at some point.


----------



## officerripley (Dec 20, 2021)

mrstime said:


> The reason I am an athiest is because of born again so called Christians. The church we were attending believed "once saved always saved" so they acted like devils! Even little children weren't safe from them. No thanks!


So, so true!


----------



## Irwin (Dec 20, 2021)

It seems like a lot of religious Christians don't actually follow the teachings of Jesus. They just believe in him so they can get into heaven when they die.

Personally, I don't believe in an afterlife, so there's nothing in the creed in it for me. I try not to be an a-hole, though, and that's something that Jesus taught... I believe in the Sermon on the Mount where he preached the words, "Blessed art thou who be not an a-hole."


----------



## palides2021 (Dec 20, 2021)

Sachet said:


> Those of you raised in a church background, are you still religious or did it turn you off ?


I was raised in a church background and am still religious all these years. I pray several times a day, because it is important for me to communicate with God, no matter where I am. I love reading the Bible but don't do it as much as I used to. There is so much wisdom in those pages, particularly in the Proverbs. But the Bible is not my religion. I look at it more as a tool to learn about God, but I have found that it is not the only way to seek Him. 

I seek Him in my heart and soul. I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that Jesus died for our sins. I believe that He trampled death so we could live. Amen.


----------



## Fyrefox (Dec 21, 2021)

I now consider myself spiritual but not religious.  My parents were “C & E’s,” people who went to church on Xmas and Easter but rarely at other times.  I‘ve done the organized religion thing, and been a church elder, board member, and assistant Sunday school superintendent; also played with “praise teams,” sometimes doing three gigs a Sunday.  When  you’re active in a church and fairly good at something, you tend to be rewarded by being asked to do more and more of it until you burn out.  I’ve also seen too much bad politics in churches, like pastors with an “edifice complex,” determined to build bigger and strap their congregation with the bill.  And then, there’s the “judging and condemning” thing that goes on _a lot… _


----------



## IFortuna (Dec 21, 2021)

Yes. I am washed in the the Blood of Christ. Does that answer the question?  

P.S. I was a Buddhist for nearly 30 years among other things. However, God has drenched me with blessings I never knew I could have.
Baptized in 2008!


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 21, 2021)

Palides and Fortuna, I am not religious but I admire your dedication and faith, regardless of whether we share the same views. We have all had different experiences in our lives that determine who or what we follow, but we all need to be dedicated and to have faith in something, whatever that is.


----------



## Lara (Jan 3, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> ....yes, I am religious. And while Santa Claus was born in December, Jesus Christ was not


Many people celebrate their birthdays on a different date
out of convenience, weather, or other reasons. Most have.

December 25 was chosen to replace an evil celebration (pagan)
with a good celebration. I'm sure Jesus is pleased.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

Lara said:


> Many people celebrate their birthdays on a different date
> out of convenience, weather, or other reasons. Most have.
> 
> December 25 was chosen to replace an evil celebration (pagan)
> with a good celebration. I'm sure Jesus is pleased.


I doubt JC cares either way about when or if his birthday is celebrated or if Santa is real or not.  His birth was important only because it suited God‘s plan.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

Lara said:


> I'm not religious as there are too many varying definitions of that.
> But I'm a Bible believer, love Jesus, and I follow the New Testament for my everyday living.
> 
> I haven't been to church in 20 years but I'd like to find a true Bible-believing Church so I can help others and make like-minded friends.
> ...


I think a Southern Baptist Church is what you are looking for in terms of your belief and faith.  Have you tried any of them?


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I was raised as a Southern Baptist and went to a Southern Baptist high school.  I will never forget the Wednesday chapels with the visiting "Fire and Brimstone" preachers and the Invitations played until absolutely everyone got up off the pews to "repent".  I then joined Church of Christ after graduating. Negatives, rather than positives, were constantly pushed down our throats, and I found that so many statements about people who were "unsaved" were so false I could no longer tolerate them.  I was completely turned off to organized religion.
> 
> So, the short answer is that I believe in morality but not religion.  How can Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Muslim, Buddhism, etc. all be the onIy "true" religions?  I do believe there is some type of greater power that is responsible for our being.  Still, I don't criticize those who are members of some type of organized religion because many times it gives them the faith they need to get though life.


I was raised Southern Baptist as well.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> I enjoy some of the televangelists.
> 
> I see them as motivational speakers and not as religious leaders.
> 
> I used to enjoy tuning in to Dr. Robert Schuller on Sunday mornings.


My mother went to his church for decades.  He started out in a drive in theater in Orange County where we attended service in our cars and later built a very expensive church.  He may have also preached at a church as a “guest” in Los Angeles but I was so young I might be mistaken remembering.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

win231 said:


> ^^^^ Bingo.
> People who know me are surprised & disappointed that I'm not religious; I don't fit their theory.
> They make the mistaken assumption that "Religious people are all good & non believers are bad."


I am not surprised but then I do not know you


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 3, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> I was raised Southern Baptist as well.


I'm guessing that was before the Southern Baptist Convention was taken over by fundamentalists???


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I'm guessing that was before the Southern Baptist Convention was taken over by fundamentalists???


I suppose it depends on the date


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 3, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> I suppose it depends on the date


I read the takeover occurred in 1979.  Afterward, the religion (beliefs, practices, etc.) bore nearly no resemblance to the way it was before.


----------



## Packerjohn (Jan 3, 2022)

I could write a book on my involvement with religion but not here.  This is a very timely topic for me as I am right now reading a book, "Perfectly Clear" by Michelle LeClair and Robin Gaby Fisher.  It's about the greatest religion in the world, The Church of Scientology (I'm pulling your leg here by saying it's the "greatest religion."  Actually, it's a horrible cult!  It was started by a charlatan by the name of L. Ron Hubbard.  It's run like a military camp that would make the German Nazis jealous!  They have hood-winked rich Hollywood types into joining like Tom Crusie, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Anne Archer and Leah Remini.  If you want to leave they come after you and spread lies.  They have billions to back them up.  You want trouble and you want to go crazy, just join the Church of Scientology.  By the way, they will clean out your bank account for free and promise that you will live forever.  Good luck.  Me, I wouldn't touch them with a "10 foot pole."  The following film is 1/2 hour long but worth watching; just in case you want to join them.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I read the takeover occurred in 1979.  Afterward, the religion (beliefs, practices, etc.) bore nearly no resemblance to the way it was before.


Oh, well, yes, way before that time period.


----------



## Irwin (Jan 3, 2022)

I was into Theravada Buddhism for a while and still agree with the Buddha's philosophies. To me Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion... Theravada Buddhism is, anyway. Some of the newer sects of Buddhism have deities and what could be considered religious beliefs and practices, but Theravada Buddhism is solely the teachings of the Buddha — Siddhartha Gautama. 

Some say the Buddha was a misanthrope, and the argument that he was could be easily defended. He despised the way commoners were treated and society as a whole, so he went off to live in the woods to get away from all the a-holes of society. I consider myself to be a misanthrope, so Buddhism is a good fit.


----------



## win231 (Jan 3, 2022)

I worked at a retail business that had 8 employees.  I got along great with 7 of them.  I never like one of them (Vernon) right from the beginning. He was one of those people who just rubs ya the wrong way.  I was always respectful with him, but I always thought, "Yuk."
When he caused some trouble for me, I spoke to the owner who told me: _ "Well, he has had his problems in the past, but now he's a reborn Christian, he turned everything over to God & he's a new person and a very devoted employee."_  I just walked away, chuckling.......can't fight that kind of mindset.

A few weeks later, I came to work & heard the owner in her office, crying.  I asked her what was wrong.  She didn't answer.  Her husband took me aside & said, "She's upset because she just found out Vernon embezzled $95,000.00 from us."
I said, "She mentioned his problems in the past; did they also involve theft?"
He said, "No; they involved cocaine."


----------



## win231 (Jan 3, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I could write a book on my involvement with religion but not here.  This is a very timely topic for me as I am right now reading a book, "Perfectly Clear" by Michelle LeClair and Robin Gaby Fisher.  It's about the greatest religion in the world, The Church of Scientology (I'm pulling your leg here by saying it's the "greatest religion."  Actually, it's a horrible cult!  It was started by a charlatan by the name of L. Ron Hubbard.  It's run like a military camp that would make the German Nazis jealous!  They have hood-winked rich Hollywood types into joining like Tom Crusie, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Anne Archer and Leah Remini.  If you want to leave they come after you and spread lies.  They have billions to back them up.  You want trouble and you want to go crazy, just join the Church of Scientology.  By the way, they will clean out your bank account for free and promise that you will live forever.  Good luck.  Me, I wouldn't touch them with a "10 foot pole."  The following film is 1/2 hour long but worth watching; just in case you want to join them.


LOL - I've met a few people who were involved in Scientology.  Poster people for the term "Wacko."
ETA:  I just remembered one place I worked at for 3 years.  Part of my application involved a 3-page multiple-choice test that involved choosing 1 of 4 answers to weird questions about how I would handle certain situations.  At the end of the test, I noticed on the last page in small print that the test came from The Church of Scientology.   I was both amused and angered, but I was also glad that I gave the answers I thought they were looking for.  They hired me.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

glofran said:


> Not religious. Where is the evidence?
> 
> It was the schoolboy who said, ""Faith is believing what you know ain't so.""


How much time do you have?


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> Yep I might say that about most major religions.
> 
> Religiosity is maintened by tradition and repetition, any deviation outside of the written law is heresy. Religions rsstrict outside influence as a concern might disrupt the power that controls the religious and the religion they follow. Should there be doubt, religion is tested by the religious to maintain or reconstruct based on new information.
> 
> ...


Oh, Mr. Ed, Ye of little faith as they say.  What would you like to know?  Some people know plenty about religion.  Few people know about faith.  I don't want to take on a particular one but if I did, my first topic for discussion would be LDS.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> Oh, Mr. Ed, Ye of little faith as they say.  What would you like to know?  Some people know plenty about religion.  Few people know about faith.  I don't want to take on a particular one but if I did, my first topic for discussion would be LDS.


 the LDS are quite an interesting group.  I consider them a very large world wide cult, not a religion.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

Jeni said:


> This is a question that means different things.
> 
> People may not belong to a specific organized church/ or named group but have  personal beliefs and practices.
> When People ask this i always wonder what they are getting at .... which church do you belong like a club ?... are you in the right fraternity or something?
> ...


That is all you got out of church.  Sad.  No offense, but why not ignore the money issue.  You don't have to contribute if you don't want to.  Attendance?  Not your worry.  Concentration should only be on the Word, in my opinion.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

Repondering said:


> I know that I am an eternal soul currently living in a physical body until that body dies, at which time my spiritual identity will continue its journey.  While I'm in this material life I try as much as is reasonable to not harm any other beings, or myself and to be helpful.  That's about as sophisticated as my aspiration for advanced consciousness gets.


From what I understand one gets to Heaven by Faith in Jesus not by works.  However, those who do good works are not forgotten by any means.  Think how one might be doubly blessed if they have both faith and works.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> We will have to PM at some point.


So true.  H


Irwin said:


> It seems like a lot of religious Christians don't actually follow the teachings of Jesus. They just believe in him so they can get into heaven when they die.
> 
> Personally, I don't believe in an afterlife, so there's nothing in the creed in it for me. I try not to be an a-hole, though, and that's something that Jesus taught... I believe in the Sermon on the Mount where he preached the words, "Blessed art thou who be not an a-hole."


I believe this qualifies as blasphemy.  How do you know what an individual Christian believes?  Be specific please and don't mince words on my account.  Above all Jesus taught love. As in loving your enemy or those who believe differently or those who live their lives differently with the partner of their choice.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> I was raised in a church background and am still religious all these years. I pray several times a day, because it is important for me to communicate with God, no matter where I am. I love reading the Bible but don't do it as much as I used to. There is so much wisdom in those pages, particularly in the Proverbs. But the Bible is not my religion. I look at it more as a tool to learn about God, but I have found that it is not the only way to seek Him.
> 
> I seek Him in my heart and soul. I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that Jesus died for our sins. I believe that He trampled death so we could live. Amen.


Amen.  I support you.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Palides and Fortuna, I am not religious but I admire your dedication and faith, regardless of whether we share the same views. We have all had different experiences in our lives that determine who or what we follow, but we all need to be dedicated and to have faith in something, whatever that is.


You are a kind hearted person as I have come to know.  It is not what we have faith in but who.  You are a tremendous asset to this community and loved by many here I believe.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> I doubt JC cares either way about when or if his birthday is celebrated or if Santa is real or not.  His birth was important only because it suited God‘s plan.


Interesting, could you expand on that a bit? The "it suited God's plan" part.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

Lara said:


> Many people celebrate their birthdays on a different date
> out of convenience, weather, or other reasons. Most have.
> 
> December 25 was chosen to replace an evil celebration (pagan)
> with a good celebration. I'm sure Jesus is pleased.


Instead of looking for the bible based church, why don't you become the teacher of the bible.  I am certain you have the knowledge.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> From what I understand one gets to Heaven by Faith in Jesus not by works.  However, those who do good works are not forgotten by any means.  Think how one might be doubly blessed if they have both faith and works.


I think it says, somewhere in the Bible, that you will be known by your works or good deeds.  It also says if you share those works in life, supposedly for gain as in look at me I gave x amount to this charity, then since you got “credit” here; you don’t get credit with JC.  It seems very complicated-gaining heaven.

I want to be with Joey, be there for Joey.  He’s a nervous guy and wants his mom, relies on his mom to be there when he needs her.  Will he need me in heaven?  I don’t know.  But wherever he is, I will be there until there is no more there.

I am far from perfect, very far.  It worries me.  But we can only do so much.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> the LDS are quite an interesting group.  I consider them a very large world wide cult, not a religion.


I have done videos on LDS, Mormons so called and Joseph Smith.  LDS is not so much a concern as the cults the are offshoots of it.
My research is ongoing.  There will be more. If you are interested go to my channel, "The Fortuna Report" on YouTube.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

win231 said:


> LOL - I've met a few people who were involved in Scientology.  Poster people for the term "Wacko."
> ETA:  I just remembered one place I worked at for 3 years.  Part of my application involved a 3-page multiple-choice test that involved choosing 1 of 4 answers to weird questions about how I would handle certain situations.  At the end of the test, I noticed on the last page in small print that the test came from The Church of Scientology.   I was both amused and angered, but I was also glad that I gave the answers I thought they were looking for.  They hired me.


I am a former member of Scientology.  What would you like to know from my perspective, anything?


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> Interesting, could you expand on that a bit? The "it suited God's plan" part.


It suited God’s plan that JC be born.  I doubt God intended to bake him a cake very year, send him a present, get him a Christmas tree.  God was/is a harsh God, as we learn from the Old Testament.

JC was expected to be about God’s plan, and complete His path as dictated for him.  It seems that JC did not have free choice.  That’s what’s interesting.  We have free choice, JC did not.  Think about that, JC did as his Father planned and wished.  Awesome, absolutely awesome.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> I have done videos on LDS, Mormons so called and Joseph Smith.  LDS is not so much a concern as the cults the are offshoots of it.
> My research is ongoing.  There will be more. If you are interested go to my channel, "The Fortuna Report" on YouTube.


The non LDS, LDS are truly interesting.  What killed me was when the Jeffries children were returned to their mothers because Utah did not have enough foster care homes and did not want to spend the money on supporting those children.  It’s always the bottom line in this state.

The LDS has a lot of power here, in Utah .  Not as much as they used to, but still a lot.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> I think it says, somewhere in the Bible, that you will be known by your works or good deeds.  It also says if you share those works in life, supposedly for gain as in look at me I gave x amount to this charity, then since you got “credit” here; you don’t get credit with JC.  It seems very complicated-gaining heaven.
> 
> I want to be with Joey, be there for Joey.  He’s a nervous guy and wants his mom, relies on his mom to be there when he needs her.  Will he need me in heaven?  I don’t know.  But wherever he is, I will be there until there is no more there.
> 
> I am far from perfect, very far.  It worries me.  But we can only do so much.


Could you cite complete passages in support of your arguments?   Here is one, James 2:18 "
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
Ephesian 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
https://www.openbible.info/topics/they_will_know_you_by_your_works 

​


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 3, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> Could you cite complete passages in support of your arguments?   Here is one, James 2:18 "
> But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
> Ephesian 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
> https://www.openbible.info/topics/they_will_know_you_by_your_works
> ...


No, I won’t.  I find the Bible is a historical document and I am not arguing.  I am discussing things with you.  You believe as you want, I’ll believe as I want.  I am pulling stuff from memory and I don’t care enough to look it up cause if you are that interested, , you can look it up.

As an abused child, I read the Bible a lot.  It was a great comfort from a child's perspective.  It gave me a sense that God’s justice would fall upon my parents.  As an adult, I believe God will judge them and I will accept his judgement.

Therefore, I follow what the Pope said although the Church tried to backtrack on it.  Everyone goes to heaven.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> It suited God’s plan that JC be born.  I doubt God intended to bake him a cake very year, send him a present, get him a Christmas tree.  God was/is a harsh God, as we learn from the Old Testament.
> 
> JC was expected to be about God’s plan, and complete His path as dictated for him.  It seems that JC did not have free choice.  That’s what’s interesting.  We have free choice, JC did not.  Think about that, JC did as his Father planned and wished.  Awesome, absolutely awesome.


Jesus could have walked away from the cross, but He loved humanity so much He carried out His destiny in my opinion.  Just because your father wanted you to do something, did you always do it?  God gave Free Will to everyone.  He allowed Himself to be taken to the cross because He loved us.  He did not run away a He surely could have but turned Himself over to complete His destiny.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> No, I won’t.  I find the Bible is a historical document and I am not arguing.  I am discussing things with you.  You believe as you want, I’ll believe as I want.  I am pulling stuff from memory and I don’t care enough to look it up cause if you are that interested, , you can look it up.
> 
> As an abused child, I read the Bible a lot.  It was a great comfort from a child's perspective.  It gave me a sense that God’s justice would fall upon my parents.  As an adult, I believe God will judge them and I will accept his judgement.
> 
> Therefore, I follow what the Pope said although the Church tried to backtrack on it.  Everyone goes to heaven.


Uh, I just looked it up.  I put quotes and a link for you.   Everyone is different. I know a man who was terribly abused as a child. He was beaten for things his siblings did. He is a devout Christian, caveats do not apply in this case. I was a Catholic and as for the Pope, one does not have to agree with the dogma of the church. At least that was what the priest told me and I agree.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 3, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> The non LDS, LDS are truly interesting.  What killed me was when the Jeffries children were returned to their mothers because Utah did not have enough foster care homes and did not want to spend the money on supporting those children.  It’s always the bottom line in this state.
> 
> The LDS has a lot of power here, in Utah .  Not as much as they used to, but still a lot.


BTW, do you follow the murder cases out of Idaho on the Daybells?  Interesting how LDS and cult thinking appears to be involved.
If you want to check the facts of the case, go to East Idaho News.  They have a complete timeline.  I could do a thread on this case but it would continue ad infinitum.  If you have specific questions on it I would be happy to respond as well as I can. Thank you for your posts regarding this issue.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 3, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> murder cases out of Idaho on the Daybells


That is interesting, I had not heard of it.  Hard to imagine the Mormon church had anything to do with it directly...

Mark Hoffman's Salamander murders is also a very interesting Mormon related story.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hofmann 

Good books have been written about it 

https://www.amazon.com/Salamander-S...859&sprefix=salamander+murders,aps,120&sr=8-1 

https://www.amazon.com/Mormon-Murde...0382d&pd_rd_wg=rNwlL&pd_rd_i=1250025893&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/Gathering-Sa...cb139&pd_rd_wg=rDRWV&pd_rd_i=1501153110&psc=1


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 3, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> You are a kind hearted person as I have come to know.  It is not what we have faith in but who.  You are a tremendous asset to this community and loved by many here I believe.


Thank you so much!


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 3, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> I was raised Southern Baptist as well.


That explains a lot about both of us.


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## Shero (Jan 4, 2022)

No, I am not religious although brought up in a religious educational environment, which I loved but outgrew. We did not send our children to a religious school. They went to a private school where religion was optional. Simple reason being, We did not want them to be brainwashed by religious dogma taught by narrow minded people who probably never ventured further from their abode.

I feel children should know and be aware about *all* religions. They should see all religions as part of the same learning experience and not see one as superior to all others. Learning about other cultures teaches children how to be open-minded and accepting of other people's faiths and backgrounds. It teaches ethical values and sets them up for life!

To instil into children, before the age of reason, things that have no real basis in fact is so wrong. Making them read and believe a book written thousands of years ago hampers their development, which follows them into adult life and leads to maladjustment.

So you see why I am not religious but I believe in a Supreme Force that I call God. One does not need religion to have faith. We already have a “conscience” given to us by Nature.

Our conscience is the part of our personality that helps us determine between right and wrong. That’s all that’s required in my opinion of course!
.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 4, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> That explains a lot about both of us.


It sure does


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 4, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> Jesus could have walked away from the cross, but He loved humanity so much He carried out His destiny in my opinion.  Just because your father wanted you to do something, did you always do it?  God gave Free Will to everyone.  He allowed Himself to be taken to the cross because He loved us.  He did not run away a He surely could have but turned Himself over to complete His destiny.


It is so complicated, it will not be solved by us.  But happy to discuss it.  @IFortuna

JC was a God and a human, I suppose a Demi God according to the Greeks, maybe.  He had the responsibility of both a God and a man.  But, he never had free will, in my opinion.  He ignored the will of his STEP-FATHER and his mother, Mary.  You know, settle down, we will find you a nice girl, become a builder, have the kids, etc.  and the path set by them and his Jewish heritage.  Remember, free will was not then what it is now.  Most children followed the path set by their parents.

He followed the path set by GOD.  A God that was a very harsh taskmaster.  IMO, no free will, the fix was in.

Yet, I suppose, he could have walked away, early in the game, but I doubt it.  Once nailed to the cross or even once in the hands of the Romans; there was no walking away.  The path was truly set in stone.

But did he love humanity or the thought of his Godhood, or was he afraid of the anger he would face from the great I AM?  I am sure there were worst things than crucification available to God. Was JC God’s first son, or his last after a series of failures in the son department?  Idk.  Would anyone?  JC was the only one who made the news.

JC, as a human, it would be hard not to become a God, wouldn’t it? Hard not to mull the choices over, if choices were available.  What HUMAN would chose to be crucified?
idk.  I only know, from an imperfect historical account presented in the Bible, that JC did not exercise free will and followed the path GOD set for him.  That indicates, to me, no free will.

But that’s how I view it.  And despite my speculation on how JC came to be on the cross, the decision making process in his mind, he was there.  Of the thousands of people the Romans crucified;  JC was the only one to ascend to Heaven.

So yes, I believe he was the Son of God.

But, due to the free will given to me by God the Father and JC, the son; I can question the why and way, and still believe, and still be solid in my faith.  I do not have to follow a set path, HE did.


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## Aneeda72 (Jan 4, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> Uh, I just looked it up.  I put quotes and a link for you.   Everyone is different. I know a man who was terribly abused as a child. He was beaten for things his siblings did. He is a devout Christian, caveats do not apply in this case. I was a Catholic and as for the Pope, one does not have to agree with the dogma of the church. At least that was what the priest told me and I agree.


You don’t even have to remain Catholic


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 4, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> BTW, do you follow the murder cases out of Idaho on the Daybells?  Interesting how LDS and cult thinking appears to be involved.
> If you want to check the facts of the case, go to East Idaho News.  They have a complete timeline.  I could do a thread on this case but it would continue ad infinitum.  If you have specific questions on it I would be happy to respond as well as I can. Thank you for your posts regarding this issue.


No I do not


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## Ronni (Jan 4, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I could write a book on my involvement with religion but not here.  This is a very timely topic for me as I am right now reading a book, "Perfectly Clear" by Michelle LeClair and Robin Gaby Fisher.  It's about the greatest religion in the world, The Church of Scientology (I'm pulling your leg here by saying it's the "greatest religion."  Actually, it's a horrible cult!  It was started by a charlatan by the name of L. Ron Hubbard.  It's run like a military camp that would make the German Nazis jealous!  They have hood-winked rich Hollywood types into joining like Tom Crusie, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Anne Archer and Leah Remini.  If you want to leave they come after you and spread lies.  They have billions to back them up.  You want trouble and you want to go crazy, just join the Church of Scientology.  By the way, they will clean out your bank account for free and promise that you will live forever.  Good luck.  Me, I wouldn't touch them with a "10 foot pole."  The following film is 1/2 hour long but worth watching; just in case you want to join them.


Leah Remini has since broken with the Church of Scientology and has gone on to document heinous abuses by the church and its members in her Docuseries Scientology and the Aftermath. There are several seasons currently and the expose is gut wrenching.


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## Pepper (Jan 4, 2022)

@Aneeda72 
"Of the thousands of people the Romans crucified; JC was the *only one* to ascend to Heaven."

What about one of the two thieves on either side of him who said “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” JC said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”


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## Aneeda72 (Jan 4, 2022)

Pepper said:


> @Aneeda72
> "Of the thousands of people the Romans crucified; JC was the *only one* to ascend to Heaven."
> 
> What about one of the two thieves on either side of him who said “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” JC said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”


Well, gee, your bodyguard  thanks you for the correction.  That is why you get the big bucks.  @Pepper

 totally forgot about them, but they were brought into the kingdom by JC, not God the Father.  So you are right, and I should have been more specific in saying JC was the only one, that I know of, who ascended to heaven via God’s chosen path-for his Son.  Because JC brought the thieves to PARADISE. But not to heaven?

But it opens up more questions, does it not?  What is/was paradise? It seems that JC creates the ideal of Heaven and Christians go to Heaven.  The thieves were not Christian, as far as I know.  Is paradise a place of God the Father?  A place before heaven?  Where believers in GOD went after death?  Before JC was known.  Is paradise the Garden of Eden?

Were the two thieves Jewish?  I assume so.  They were not Christian, I am somewhat sure of that.  Seems the first two people JC choose to judge and forgive were those that died along side of him and were criminals.  Which means criminals can achieve paradise, if not heaven itself.

Does that mean that all that died specifically, in God’s the Father’s name, all the martyrs to the various faiths, and believers, are taken to paradise, not heaven?  A place for those that are not Christian?  God’s belivers to the left, Christians to, hmm, the right .

I have no clue.  But, then again, why not? Seems logical, doesn’t it?


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## Pepper (Jan 4, 2022)

I have nothing more to add at the moment.  Thank you


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## JaniceM (Jan 4, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, gee, your bodyguard  thanks you for the correction.  That is why you get the big bucks.  @Pepper
> 
> totally forgot about them, but they were brought into the kingdom by JC, not God the Father.  So you are right, and I should have been more specific in saying JC was the only one, that I know of, who ascended to heaven via God’s chosen path-for his Son.  Because JC brought the thieves to PARADISE. But not to heaven?
> 
> ...


Jesus wasn't a Christian.  So I guess He's with the rest of us.


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## IFortuna (Jan 4, 2022)

Ronni said:


> Leah Remini has since broken with the Church of Scientology and has gone on to document heinous abuses by the church and its members in her Docuseries Scientology and the Aftermath. There are several seasons currently and the expose is gut wrenching.


Yes, I have watched several.  The abuses seem to be much more severe at the top levels.  She has a lot of courage.


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## Sachet (Jan 5, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I could write a book on my involvement with religion but not here.  This is a very timely topic for me as I am right now reading a book, "Perfectly Clear" by Michelle LeClair and Robin Gaby Fisher.  It's about the greatest religion in the world, The Church of Scientology (I'm pulling your leg here by saying it's the "greatest religion."  Actually, it's a horrible cult!  It was started by a charlatan by the name of L. Ron Hubbard.  It's run like a military camp that would make the German Nazis jealous!  They have hood-winked rich Hollywood types into joining like Tom Crusie, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Anne Archer and Leah Remini.  If you want to leave they come after you and spread lies.  They have billions to back them up.  You want trouble and you want to go crazy, just join the Church of Scientology.  By the way, they will clean out your bank account for free and promise that you will live forever.  Good luck.  Me, I wouldn't touch them with a "10 foot pole."  The following film is 1/2 hour long but worth watching; just in case you want to join them.


I was raised Frisbeeterian. We believed that when you die, you end up stuck on a roof somewhere.


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## Ladybj (Jan 7, 2022)

Mr. Ed said:


> I have questions and doubts when Christians are told to accept/believe everything in the Bbile without question. Common brainwashing techniques include belief without question, devotion and dependence on the central figure or cause.
> Fear of God’s wrath and retribution maintain and keep followers in a protected box to prevent free will from forming outside the box.
> 
> I have nothing against my faith, but ask myself is my life as I want it to be or am I simply living my life in accordance to the design of another.


I had to give up quite a bit of beliefs that I was taught..especially pertaining to religion.  I am in the process of working on my inner self which is no picnic in the park but well worth it.  Learning to search for answers within instead of external.  It's amazing how much suffering we bring to ourselves.. I now understand why I have been tensed up for many years.


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## Ladybj (Jan 9, 2022)

I have no doubt there is a Higher Power greater than myself.  Maybe that higher power is within myself.  However, I do not believe in a God that will send you to Hell if you do not live a perfect life or break a commandment.   Would we want our child to burn in hell if they broke a Curfew or rule.. absolutely not.  I know I wouldn't. 

 Had to change my beliefs as I got older and it is a sense of Freedom. I am Still a work in progress.  Why do soo many "Christians"  "Religious" folks suffer??   God do not bring suffering to us, we bring suffering to ourselves in what we were taught.  Our parents did the best they could in what they knew...  I am now on a journey to look deeply inside to find the answers and they are coming to me.  Seek and you Shall Find.


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

Sachet said:


> Those of you raised in a church background, are you still religious or did it turn you off ?


Pretty religious since I was baptized in 2008.  I was a Buddhist for nearly 30 years.  I love being a Christian, I have been extremely blessed in many ways unlike my previous religious practices.  It has opened me up to being more non judgmental, seeing the other person's viewpoint better.  I am happier than I have ever been.


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

officerripley said:


> Spent close to 50 years trying to believe in the supernatural and finally gave up.


One has to consider which supernatural avenue one is going down. In my opinion, my channel is set on Jesus an He hears me and He has my back.  I was involved with lots of New Age stuff, spiritualism, Buddhism before and it never yielded me anything.


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

grahamg said:


> My experience has always been low key, so no overbearing indoctrination, and instead a positive experience best described as "showing you the way you might improve your life and yourself", (rather than telling you what is right or wrong).


The bible is specific in this regard, right and wrong.  However, there was this man who washed our sins away with His blood.


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

Lawrence said:


> Yes I am religious and I am a Christian and I am a Minister of the Universal Life Church. This church in is contraversial with the public because all you have to do is apply and pay money to get the crudentials to become a minister. The only reason I wanted to do this is to keep evil beings away from me and my family and to help other people to keep evil away from them.


You needn't apologize for your connection with the Lord.  You seem to be following your path just fine.


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

Irwin said:


> Do you preach to a congregation or do any ministerial stuff?
> 
> I would guess if you knew the tax laws well enough, you could pretty much avoid paying any taxes.


Jesus said give Caesar his due.  Too bad you an others see the message as taxes, in my opinion.


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

Don M. said:


> I attended church most of my growing up years.  However, as I got older I began to recognize that the most important part of the service is the passing of the "collection plate".
> 
> I firmly believe that the universe is guided by a power far superior to anything we know, and I hope that trying to be a good person will have its rewards.  However, I am of the opinion that virtually All organized "man made" religion is based upon power over others, and money.


You can ignore the collection plate or would that make you feel guilty? Don't sign up for guilt. Just seek the message of scripture.  If people don't support the church and the pastor financially, then the church will be gone. Maybe that is what some people want.  How iwll the bills be paid?  Personally, I stopped concentrating on the money aspect and more on the message.


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

Shero said:


> "Kindness" _is_ the theme of all religions.  Trouble is those who profess to be religious or spiritual (which means the same thing) do not keep to this.
> .


Sorry, religious and spiritual don't mean the same thing in my book.  Just sayin'.  
 Spiritual def:  
1.
relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
"I'm responsible for his spiritual welfare"

Religious: 
relating to or believing in a religion.
"both men were deeply religious, intelligent, and moralistic"


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

Michael Z said:


> I was raised in a main-line church but truthfully there were a lot of mixed signals. The church seemed to preach works, that is, if one's good works outweighed the bad, then you went to heaven. I remember my father, who was a problem drinker, bee-lining for the liquor cabinet as soon as we got home from church. It was as if attending church not only negated the sins of the previous week, it allowed for a shot and a beer or two free of charge on the "sin tab".
> 
> My mom, however, had a genuine faith and she also was a regular church attendee.  I followed in my father's drinking footsteps, becoming  a problem drinker and wild man in general.  I attended church for a while as an adult, but then gave up, knowing that simple church attendance could not atone for the boat-load of sins I was racking up. But then at about age 27 I lost my job and was in sort of a pickle financially. The walls started closing in. That is when I turned to Christ as payment for my sins without any works of my own.
> 
> It was a whole new world for me. I then started re-attending various churches, gravitating toward non-denominational.  Through the 36 years as a Born Again Christian I have attended a variety of churches but now have settled into a very traditional Baptist church for the last 7 years. My current view on church, which I think is a better view, is "What can I do for the church and within the church" as opposed to "What can this church do for me". I was in jail ministry with a fellow church member until Covid hit and now I help with AWANA, helping little kids memorize and understand bible verses.


One can only reach Heaven thru Jesus, however there is a caveat in the bible that one can reach Heaven thru good works.  When one believes in Jesus, good works follow.  How could they not?


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## IFortuna (Jan 11, 2022)

Ladybj said:


> I had to give up quite a bit of beliefs that I was taught..especially pertaining to religion.  I am in the process of working on my inner self which is no picnic in the park but well worth it.  Learning to search for answers within instead of external.  It's amazing how much suffering we bring to ourselves.. I now understand why I have been tensed up for many years.


When we don't believe in God or a higher power, we become our own god.  Therein lies the problem.  Just look around at all the dangerous cults.  I am following a case out of Idaho, where the accused are said to have committed murder due to cult beliefs.
The woman is alleged to have murdered her two children JJ, 7 and Tylee, 16 with the help of the cult leader Chad Daybell.  her children were found buried in the backyard of Daybell.  The little boy wrapped plastic bags and the young lady dismembered and burned. Mr. Daybell is accused of murdering his wife and a couple weeks later married the mother of these children which they disposed of.
Lori Daybell, Chad's wife had her brother murder her husband.  Both free of their spouses they proceeded with their crimes.  He told her she was literally a goddess and that must have made him a god.
I am involved in a discussion on Academia.com entitled "God loves Children, gods kill children."


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## officerripley (Jan 11, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> One has to consider which supernatural avenue one is going down. In my opinion, my channel is set on Jesus an He hears me and He has my back.  I was involved with lots of New Age stuff, spiritualism, Buddhism before and it never yielded me anything.


That is the channel I was going down (specifically the Protestant version); still didn't work for me; thanks anyway.


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## Lavinia (Jan 11, 2022)

Some people need organised religion and others  prefer to follow their own interpretation of the gospels. I think of myself as spiritually aware but not really religious as I don't actually practise anything.
For many people, the Church gives a backdrop to their lives. 
I'm still reading up on the whole thing and am  trying to make sense of it.  However, I'm the sort of person who analyses and examines....I like to find things out for myself.


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## Liberty (Jan 11, 2022)

Spiritual, yes!  

Religious, no.


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## Aneeda72 (Jan 11, 2022)

Ladybj said:


> I have no doubt there is a Higher Power greater than myself.  Maybe that higher power is within myself.  However, I do not believe in a God that will send you to Hell if you do not live a perfect life or break a commandment.   Would we want our child to burn in hell if they broke a Curfew or rule.. absolutely not.  I know I wouldn't.
> 
> Had to change my beliefs as I got older and it is a sense of Freedom. I am Still a work in progress.  Why do soo many "Christians"  "Religious" folks suffer??   God do not bring suffering to us, we bring suffering to ourselves in what we were taught.  Our parents did the best they could in what they knew...  I am now on a journey to look deeply inside to find the answers and they are coming to me.  Seek and you Shall Find.


Depends on the rule and why the curfew was broken and what they were doing.  After all, serial rapists, mass shooters, and even Hilter had parents.


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## mellowyellow (Jan 11, 2022)

Religion brings comfort to millions of people and that has to be a good thing.


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## Irwin (Jan 11, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> Religion brings comfort to millions of people and that has to be a good thing.


I agree with that. Although I'm not religious, a get the appeal. Religion provides an explanation for things we cannot, at this point in time, explain. It provides meaning to life and a large social support network. It makes people feel like they belong, which is valuable in today's increasingly isolated and polarized society.


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## Pepper (Jan 12, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> Religion brings comfort to millions of people and that has to be a good thing.


Thinking the Emperor wore clothes was a comfort as well to millions of people.


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## Grampa Don (Jan 13, 2022)

Of course believing that you have a direct link to the creator of the universe is comforting.  So is the belief that you will live forever in heaven.  They are harmless.  It's the finicky details of religions that cause problems, like expecting everyone else to believe as you do and follow the same rules.  I read that there was a time when Christians killed each other over whether God is a trinity or not.  Then there's Protestant vs. Catholic, Sunni vs. Shi'a, etc., etc.


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## rgp (Jan 15, 2022)

glofran said:


> Not religious. Where is the evidence?
> 
> It was the schoolboy who said, ""Faith is believing what you know ain't so.""




   Agree here !


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## Lavinia (Jan 15, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Thinking the Emperor wore clothes was a comfort as well to millions of people.


They knew the truth...but didn't want to be the first to say so....so went along with the pretence.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 15, 2022)

I was raised in the church and my husband and I raised our two girls in the church. We believe that God died for our sins and if we accept him as our Savior and we live the life the Bible says to live than we should have eternal life in heaven. I am not one of those Christian people who pushes any of my beliefs onto anyone or even talks about it unless a question is asked like in this post.


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## Ladybj (Jan 15, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> Pretty religious since I was baptized in 2008.  I was a Buddhist for nearly 30 years.  I love being a Christian, I have been extremely blessed in many ways unlike my previous religious practices.  It has opened me up to being more non judgmental, seeing the other person's viewpoint better.  I am happier than I have ever been.


I am not a Buddhist but I love Buddhist teachings - very enlightened.


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## Shero (Jan 15, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> Sorry, religious and spiritual don't mean the same thing in my book.  Just sayin'.
> Spiritual def:
> 1.
> relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
> ...



I did not say being religious and being spiritual are the same thing.
Where did that come from?
.


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## grahamg (Jan 15, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Thinking the Emperor wore clothes was a comfort as well to millions of people.


Its maybe important not to look at the influence of religion in too simplistic a manner I think, (above on this thread page are some examples of this, worse than yours, if you don't mind my saying).

I can't fully explain myself here, or my views very clearly and succinctly, but will point at the fact the earliest colleges at Oxford University, seven or eight hundred years ago, were set up in many cases to oppose the ideology of one of the other Christian colleges I believe, (I've worked in Oxford quite a lot, visiting a number of colleges, and read of their origins,..., I think they call such ideological diversions "schisms" don't they).

You could perhaps imagine therefore the efforts undertaken to understand religious thinking or differing views, by the greatest brains of the time, and this justifies my saying trite or simplistic comments about religion are likely to be of limited usefulness!


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## IFortuna (Jan 15, 2022)

Shero said:


> I did not say being religious and being spiritual are the same thing.
> Where did that come from?
> .


Pardon, did I say you did?  I must have been in orbit as I often am. Deepest apologies, what was I thinking?


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## Della (Jan 15, 2022)

I'm religious _because_ I'm spiritual.  

It's true there is no scientific evidence that there is a God, but there's no evidence that there isn't one, either.

  I and millions of people since pre-history have believed there is something higher, a creator. We believe in something we can't see because of a deep sense that it is true.  That's  why it's called faith and not fact.

My parents bought us up in the Presbyterian Church.  There were no fire and brimstone preachers, no strict rules against drinking or dancing, just calm sermons about how we can be better people, followed by reassurance that Jesus still loves us even if we fail. 

 We had Sunday School lessons based on the teachings of Jesus, where they tried to teach us not to judge other people, but to  love them, feed them, and care for the sick. 

 I found it all very comforting -- Mr. Rogers was a Presbyterian minister who felt called to care for little children, he was a lot like the ministers I've known, gentle souls.

I think it's a shame that so many people use the name of Jesus to make money for themselves or to justify shunning others.  Jesus accepted and loved everyone and warned against a love of money.

I've had spiritual moments in nature and in all sorts of unlikely places, but I still love going to church and being among other people who are worshipping God and trying to become better people.  It's always spiritually moving to me and I feel better after a service.   For many of us church is like a hospital for our soul where we can get care and recover.


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## Shero (Jan 15, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> Pardon, did I say you did?  I must have been in orbit as I often am. Deepest apologies, what was I thinking?


No worries


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## Grampa Don (Jan 15, 2022)

Life is a mystery, isn’t it. Existence is a mystery. And like any mystery we are drawn to solve it. When we knew very little, the obvious answer was that some superior being or beings were controlling everything. Every culture came up with a version of these beings. Some were benevolent, some tyrannical, some a mix.

Not so long ago historically, you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn’t believe in a God or Gods. There was no other explanation for the way things are. And, you would probably accept that the version in your own culture was the true one.

Then science happened and we began to understand more physical processes and found things that clearly disagreed with some sacred texts. This posed a quandary. How do you explain the differences? Some say the texts are clearly mythical. Some say the texts are absolutely correct and science is in error. And, some say the science is right, but parts of the texts should be taken as allegories that show fundamental truths.

Does it really matter which camp you’re in as long as we can agree to accept each other’s right to their own opinions, and don’t try to make them accept ours? Unfortunately, there is a big stumbling block. Education. What do we teach our kids?

Clearly, if you send your children to a private religious school, you have the right to teach them whatever you wish. But, how about tax supported schools? That gets really sticky. Science and the scientific method are critical to modern life. If we are to compete with other countries, our children must understand it. How can you teach that it applies in some circumstances and not in others?

There are still many things we can’t explain and maybe never will. In my opinion, belief in God is still as valid as disbelief. The details are up to each individual. There are good people in all faiths, and with no faith.


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## Irwin (Jan 15, 2022)

For those who claim there is no evidence that god _doesn't _exist, that's not true. The existence of a god or anything supernatural would defy the laws of physics and other fields of science. If it were possible for a god to exist, then it would also be possible for my chair to turn into an alligator. That would be one terrifying world!   

So, on one hand, there is no evidence that god exists. On the other hand, there is strong evidence that god doesn't exist. That's why I have a hard time believing in god.


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## grahamg (Jan 15, 2022)

Grampa Don said:


> Life is a mystery, isn’t it. Existence is a mystery. And like any mystery we are drawn to solve it. When we knew very little, the obvious answer was that some superior being or beings were controlling everything. Every culture came up with a version of these beings. Some were benevolent, some tyrannical, some a mix.
> 
> Not so long ago historically, you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn’t believe in a God or Gods. There was no other explanation for the way things are. And, you would probably accept that the version in your own culture was the true one.
> 
> ...


In a way, (if it isn't too obvious a thing to say?), what really matters is the way people "think", or more specifically "whether they/we think of others as being sometimes as important as ourselves"!
To have trust in one another generally we all have to buy into the idea don't we, that those we meet, do business with, even choose to marry, have a level of decency about them, and don't just wish to "push you down" whilst "pushing themselves up" in this world, (be it psychologically, or in other ways).


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## Della (Jan 16, 2022)

Irwin said:


> For those who claim there is no evidence that god _doesn't _exist, that's not true. The existence of a god or anything supernatural would defy the laws of physics and other fields of science. If it were possible for a god to exist, then it would also be possible for my chair to turn into an alligator. That would be one terrifying world!
> 
> So, on one hand, there is no evidence that god exists. On the other hand, there is strong evidence that god doesn't exist. That's why I have a hard time believing in god.


Who made the laws of physics, who established the order of the universe, who set off the big bang?   I think it's easy to believe in both science and religion, they are different aspects of the same world. Science will tell you a certain  small human is a child but only religion can explain why you love it.


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## dseag2 (Jan 23, 2022)

win231 said:


> Isn't that Joel Osteen?


Better late than never.


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## ElCastor (Jan 23, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> Religion brings comfort to millions of people and that has to be a good thing.


I'm an agnostic, but I completely concur with your post. Aside from the comfort that a belief in God conveys on individuals, the church is a social institution that brings like minded people together under one roof, and if only for that reason is a great comfort to many, particularly folks our age.


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## Gary O' (Jan 24, 2022)

Irwin said:


> So, on one hand, there is no evidence that god exists. On the other hand, there is strong evidence that god doesn't exist. That's why I have a hard time believing in god.


There are many things difficult or obscure in the Bible, without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.


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## Autumn72 (Feb 10, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> Our Prime Minister, Scott Morrison attends an Pentecostal church in Sydney and believes he and his wife Jenny have been called to do God's work.
> 
> 
> View attachment 199328


People needs to do something


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## Chris P Bacon (Feb 10, 2022)

Nope!​


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## fancicoffee13 (Feb 10, 2022)

Sachet said:


> Those of you raised in a church background, are you still religious or did it turn you off ?


I still go to church, still get up every morning and spend my quiet time.  With a cup of coffee.


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## Snow74 (Feb 10, 2022)

SeaBreeze said:


> No.  Spent 8 yrs. in Catholic grade school when I was a kid because it was near my home, walked away from it when I started high school.  I do not belong to any organized religion.


Sounds exactly like me..convent from grade 4 to 10..drove half a dozen nuns insane..so parents  let me go to a boy and girl school..the Catholic religion put the fear of God in us…walked away never looked back…God is good and all loving!


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## MarciKS (Feb 10, 2022)

I'm Christian but I don't attend physical church services. I view the church I like online.


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## ElCastor (Feb 10, 2022)

I was raised as a Presbyterian, but never got thoroughly into it. Later in life I concluded that the existence of a God as portrayed in the Bible seemed at best, unlikely. On the other hand religion has played an essential role in the evolution of humanity. Today it continues to be a source of comfort and companionship to many people, particularly the elderly. I have come to believe that to flatly state the non-existence of a God, as atheists do, is not justifiable. The universe is vast beyond our understanding, and probably always will be. I'm content to be an agnostic, but I have to confess that in some ways I am envious of those people I sometimes see filing into church.


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## dseag2 (Feb 10, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> I was raised as a Presbyterian, but never got thoroughly into it. Later in life I concluded that the existence of a God as portrayed in the Bible seemed at best, unlikely. On the other hand religion has played an essential role in the evolution of humanity. Today it continues to be a source of comfort and companionship to many people, particularly the elderly. I have come to believe that to flatly state the non-existence of a God, as atheists do, is not justifiable. The universe is vast beyond our understanding, and probably always will be. I'm content to be an agnostic, but I have to confess that in some ways I am envious of those people I sometimes see filing into church.


Well said!


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## Autumn72 (Mar 22, 2022)

mellowyellow said:


> View attachment 199284
> 
> The thing that bothers me about churches is the tax free side of it. Hillsong is just up the road from where I live and I was invited to come along to a service years ago and was amazed at how many $50 notes went into the deep tins (not plates) being passed around. It reminded me of a rock concert, music, lights, electric excitement, lots of hands in the air. You had to see it to believe it.


That's just it free taxes and all that money for free. However, they are providing people a place to go to hangout in.
With the idea God approves. Plus they receive the all exceptance for that feel good thing that most want yet can't find anywhere else. To be excepted and a feeling of love that many don't get at home.
A acceptable place to go to within there safe system....go home feeling great.


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## fuzzybuddy (Mar 22, 2022)

Knight said:


> Early years believed the stories in the bible even had a bible given to me for perfect attendance to church.
> 
> But then as I grew older & began to question what I was taught to believe, the more I questioned the less I believed to the point of where I am now as an atheist. I don't knock the faith others have, it works for them.


Ditto.


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## grahamg (Mar 22, 2022)

Autumn72 said:


> That's just it free taxes and all that money for free. However, they are providing people a place to go to hangout in.
> With the idea God approves. Plus they receive the all exceptance for that feel good thing that most want yet can't find anywhere else. To be excepted and a feeling of love that many don't get at home.
> A acceptable place to go to within there safe system....go home feeling great.


Not just great, maybe a little bit "divine" too sometimes, or at least "divinely lucky"!(?).


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## grahamg (Mar 22, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Ditto.


I had a quite strange reaction from a very nice young guy at work yesterday when I tried to suggest to him some people with religious faith had great intellect, not to mention other fine qualities, (think Dr. Martin Luther-King jnr), but he took this fairly innocuous comment to mean I was trying to promote religion to him, (odd hey, just how touchy some young people can become at the merest mention of anything they believe attached to churches/religion/Christianity etc.  ).


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## Knight (Mar 22, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Ditto.


I was going to add something but changed my mind.


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## Jan14 (Mar 22, 2022)

I was not raised in the church.  However we believed in God. I always remember praying and talking to him through the years. I didn’t have a close relationship until approx 20 yrs ago when I got saved. That relationship grew even closer when I became involved in a recovery group due to my husband and son being addicts.   I started attending that church which helped me to recover from some of my hurts and issues and have attended for 6 years.  It is here that I’ve felt grace that I didn’t feel at other churches.  They are not pushy at all.  I am just now thinking about joining. Prior to this nothing made sense in my life.  I felt as though I was in the wilderness.


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## spectratg (Mar 22, 2022)

Shero said:


> "Kindness" _is_ the theme of all religions.  Trouble is those who profess to be religious or spiritual (which means the same thing) do not keep to this.
> .


Find the Divine within, not within a church, temple, synagogue or mosque. Religion is believing in someone else’s experiences. Spirituality is having your own experience.


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## mellowyellow (Mar 23, 2022)

_The founder of global megachurch Hillsong, Brian Houston, has resigned after an internal investigation found he behaved inappropriately towards two women……. _
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-23/hillsong-church-founder-brian-houston-resigns/100932318


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## Autumn72 (Mar 23, 2022)

Somewhat religious.
No church goer
I think maybe it may be OK for Sunday school for young children
I don't believe in men to be without a wife as in the catholic faith
I was brought up as a catholic
Married in another faith due to not making my man made rule of whatever at twelve one is suppose to do.
Just the same mother believed in a God and Jesus. 
And for the nuns at Saint Maria Coretti's Church to be our breakfast ritual at times of need.
Good Lord their kitchen was surely, up in date compared to our home. We jade no dishwashers at all then in the mid 50s.
And they did not have to get married except to God. As I did when I was 7 white dress and veil. White knee socks and and shoes and I did not see a dishwasher brought to our house maybe if I had made my Confirmation at twelve.
Oh, well I did find one in a apartment complex even thought I wasn't looking for one. However, I  was not with my husband, for he had bern husband napped by a wicked witch and so two daughters later I guess God if not Jesus must had looked down at me and felt mighty bad at my situation and decided to magically place a dishwasher for me to make it a bite easier for me.
A sure surprise even thought I never divorced him as he carried on his recipes in the nursing home with her joined at the hip until she scoped out his locker and found all his playboy mags and warned him she would turn him in if he ever returned to me. Oh maybe also she was due to have his son Michael all now living happily in Texas a town with his name isn't that so ironically weird, I get a dishwasher, he gets a whole town. Hmmm.


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## Capt Lightning (Mar 24, 2022)

It's hard to know how many stars that there are in our galaxy.  Estimates range from 100 billion to 4 hundred billion, so it's maybe somewhere in the middle.  Estimates of the number of planets is about 1.6 per star, so anywhere upwards of 160 billion in our galaxy alone.  

How many galaxies in the  universe?  That's another big number with an estimate of about 200 billion in the  observable universe.  If our galaxy was typical, that would mean there are about 160 x 200 billion billion planets.  

Wow, this 'god' must spread itself pretty thinly to be worried about all them and any life on them.  I think it's verging on arrogant to think that we're important of that anyone out there worries about us.  No, it's up to us to make the best of our lives, but keep watching the skies.


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## Silent Rose (Mar 26, 2022)

Growing up my mom did everything imaginable to raise me in the church and I did everything possible to turn from it.  In my early 30's I became pregnant and it was quite the life change for me. I started looking more into those things I once tried to avoid while growing up and at the age of 34 I rededicated my life to the Lord. I have raised my daughter in the church and she has grown to be a wonderful young 16 almost 17 year old young lady.


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## joel0711 (Mar 27, 2022)

off and on,,,,,right now off


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## grahamg (Mar 27, 2022)

joel0711 said:


> off and on,,,,,right now off


Short, and well I suppose I could say "Sweet"!


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## David777 (Mar 27, 2022)

Irwin said:


> For those who claim there is no evidence that god _doesn't _exist, that's not true. The existence of a god or anything supernatural would defy the laws of physics and other fields of science. If it were possible for a god to exist, then it would also be possible for my chair to turn into an alligator. That would be one terrifying world!   So, on one hand, there is no evidence that god exists. On the other hand, there is strong evidence that god doesn't exist. That's why I have a hard time believing in god.



Yours is a common position but what you are really considering impossible is the interpreted Bible by pre-science era scholars that became denominational dogma.  Nowhere in the Bible, neither in the OT or NT, does is state the three O’s, favorites of theological philosophers, omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence.  At most it vaguely states "Almighty".  Churches had great reasons to have their followers think a god had such powers as such opened up a long list of supernatural magic like things a god could do.  And much of such philosophy became dogma during the Middle Ages that from which later religious leaders created all manner of self serving ideas.  Consider how eternal life does not bear on the supernatural but rather may be a matter of physics of matter and energy?  

Thus a race of ancient Ultimate Intelligent Entities with great though not unlimited powers or knowledge, might also possibly be able to provide eternal life, not just some supernatural being philosophers have to resort to nonsense like being on different plains of existence to consider.  Also consider how if UIE exist within the universe, figuring out how to do so given billions if not trillions of years into the infinite past would have arguably been about the most important goal in a universe like ours where organic life can evolve into intelligent beings.  And that such a race would have immense interest in rare blue water worlds like the Earth.


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## David777 (Mar 27, 2022)

Just went through the 8 pages of posts.  I made a post on page 3 that shows this highly science educated person's view is unlike any others on this board.

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/religious-yes-or-no.66938/page-3#post-1949415

This web board has a majority of agnostic non church going members that are uncertain about religion or a god.  Many members grew up with some level of religion but for a list of reasons left.  A few found some level of religion as an adult.  A few have never believed as atheists but herein have remained civil in their inputs.  Others have always believed and are still a part of organized religion.  And some have as adults become very spiritual without being a part of organized religion.  Obviously, there is a difference between what members consider the purpose of religion with a majority seeming to equate religion as a philosophical guide to a moral spiritual life. 

For others as this person, it is all about eternal life, the only possible escape from otherwise certain eternal non-existence after our physical organic body dies.  What I consider by far the saddest part of our precious mortal existence as intelligent beings. There are some who lean towards if there is possible eternal life then everyone will have it regardless, some thinking everyone is saved, others that it is either heaven or hell.  I can point to NT scripture pointing to the more logically probable that only those faithful receive eternal life while most of the rest simply end existence.

Most of those members exposed to the Bible and Christian denominations as well as those in the general population are familiar with various dogmas and Bible verses, however few have actually studied much of the Bible at length as it is a long, difficult, translated from ancient language document, from a list of different sources, for anyone to easily understand.  Over millennia scholars have dedicated their lifetimes to doing so.  Their differences reflect the difficulty of understanding and much grates against modern science that tends to show a fair amount of dogma to be indefensible nonsense much less inerrant.  Before this current telecom technology era, an average person had little to no access to scholar's works.  However today much of that heretofore secret work is open to anyone with a computer connected to the Internet while there are also many books.  Despite such, very very few have taken advantage of those sources because the vast amount of such works is so overwhelming and people, especially seniors even with an interest have become weary of seeking.  I would suggest that any that have an interest in eternal life, owe it to themselves to at least try. Of course there are plenty that have no interest in possible eternal life and have lived their lives not expecting that. The problem is where does one start?


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