# America's crisis is a lack of fathers.



## Robert59 (Jun 18, 2022)

Father's Day is this weekend but as we celebrate we must not forget the millions of children who are growing up without a dad in the home.​As our country commemorates Father’s Day this weekend, it is important that we recognize the millions of children throughout our nation who are growing up without their fathers. Data from the United States Census Bureau shows that nearly 18.5 million children grow up without their fathers, which has in return led to the United States owning the title of the world’s leader in fatherlessness. 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/america-crisis-fathers


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 18, 2022)

No, actually the problem is a lack of babies!  Birthrates have been declining for years, we have not been replacing the people who are dying for years.  Our population continues to grow based on legal immigration coupled with illegal immigration.  As a society we are doomed to be taken over by people who are not American citizens.


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## jimintoronto (Jun 18, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> No, actually the problem is a lack of babies!  Birthrates have been declining for years, we have not been replacing the people who are dying for years.  Our population continues to grow based on legal immigration coupled with illegal immigration.  As a society we are doomed to be taken over by people who are not American citizens.


That sounds a lot like the slogan voiced by the Proud Boys, a far right wing terrorist group, where they claim that "white people are being replaced by evil others ". Do you REALLY believe that nonsense ? link to Proud Boys website. Read their official stance, for your self. WATCH: White supremacists chant 'Jews will not replace us' in Charlottesville (ynetnews.com)     OK Timewise, now you can either side with these idiots, or take back your statement. Choose.       JimB.


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 18, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> That sounds a lot like the slogan voiced by the Proud Boys, a far right wing terrorist group, where they claim that "white people are being replaced by evil others ". Do you REALLY believe that nonsense ? link to Proud Boys website. Read their official stance, for your self. WATCH: White supremacists chant 'Jews will not replace us' in Charlottesville (ynetnews.com)     OK Timewise, now you can either side with these idiots, or take back your statement. Choose.


Check the data!  I belong to know groups....


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## jimintoronto (Jun 18, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Check the data!  I belong to know groups....


Nice try to slide off the point. Are you a racist ? Do you really support the idea that Americans are being displaced by evil immigrants ? What " known groups " do YOU belong to ? JimB.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 18, 2022)

I think guys get a raw deal at times. And before there's 8,000 posts, yes, men do have other privileges. But when it comes to family court, mom rules. In the vast majority of divorces, who gets the kids? Why don't dads get the kids 50% of the time? Men don't have any say over their unborn children. Men are required to pay "child support" for 18 years, but they have little guarantee they will see their kids during those years. I believe the family court marginalizes fathers.


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 18, 2022)

Either the human race becomes a nice shade of brown or we kill ourselves.


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## Don M. (Jun 18, 2022)

Today, about 40% of the children being born are being raised by single mothers....with little or no support from their male "sperm donors".  The majority of those children are being raised in or near poverty conditions.  Many of them wind up being "educated" on the streets, and wind up contributing to our increasing crime rates.  

https://singlemotherguide.com/single-mother-statistics/

IMO, those Males who spread their "sperm" and take little or no responsibility for raising their children should be offered a free and mandatory vasectomy.


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## Lavinia (Jun 18, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Today, about 40% of the children being born are being raised by single mothers....with little or no support from their male "sperm donors".  The majority of those children are being raised in or near poverty conditions.  Many of them wind up being "educated" on the streets, and wind up contributing to our increasing crime rates.
> 
> https://singlemotherguide.com/single-mother-statistics/
> 
> IMO, those Males who spread their "sperm" and take little or no responsibility for raising their children should be offered a free and mandatory vasectomy.


All criminals should be rendered sterile. Criminal behaviour is often passed on from father to son. Children grow up thinking certain behaviour is acceptable, and copy what their fathers did.
...and before someone accuses me of being a Nazi....we are all living in the same society so we are all affected by crime. We are entitled to do whatever is necessary to protect ourselves.


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## Packerjohn (Jun 18, 2022)

And so they sit all day looking at their smarphones and live a loner life with few if any friends.  Some of them figure that society really "sucks" and people "suck."  Some of them get the idea that if they take a gun and eliminate some of those people, they are doing the world some good.  Since they have no father nor no friends to tell them anything different; they go out and do it and become some sort of sick, twisted celebrity on the 6 o'clock news.  Such is our high speed, consumer oriented society looking to live the life of the so called "American Dream" which, if you ask me, is fast becoming the American Nightmare!


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## Gary O' (Jun 18, 2022)

America's crisis is a lack of fathers​
Seems plenty of fathers to me

Maybe the title s/be;

America's crisis is a lack of Responsible fathers​


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## Paco Dennis (Jun 18, 2022)

Here again we have such cultural differences. The role the father differs around the world, and so many things factor in on how children are raised. Mothers have instictually nutured their babies. The father protects and provides. Our world is filled with different rearing "parents". Father's are not to blame for a broken culture. I lived in the NY City ghetto. About 5% have fathers present. It didn't matter to the children if their dad was there or not, because if they were they still needed public assistance.


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## helenbacque (Jun 18, 2022)

_"The greatest gift a mother can give her child is to choose *with great care* the man who will be its father." : _Anon


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## SeniorBen (Jun 18, 2022)

Maybe more single women should choose to abort when they don't have the means to take care of a child. Of course, that may not be an option in the near future. It already isn't in some states.


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## HoneyNut (Jun 18, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I think guys get a raw deal at times. And before there's 8,000 posts, yes, men do have other privileges. But when it comes to family court, mom rules. In the vast majority of divorces, who gets the kids? Why don't dads get the kids 50% of the time? Men don't have any say over their unborn children. Men are required to pay "child support" for 18 years, but they have little guarantee they will see their kids during those years. I believe the family court marginalizes fathers.


I think that situation has been over for a long time (there used to be laws giving preference to the mothers but that changed long ago).  From what I've read, nowadays fathers win custody in court a little more than 50% of contested cases, and the reason most of the time women get custody is because the fathers agree/want the mother to have custody and don't contest it. 

_"Beginning in the 1970s a major swing in custody law sharply reversed what had been a well-entrenched preference for mothers. Most states adopted laws conferring an equal status on the custodial rights of mother and father with a favorable attitude toward joint custody."_


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## jimintoronto (Jun 18, 2022)

Sill waiting to hear from Timewise 60, who I challenged about his statement that VERY closely matched a hate slogan espoused by the far right wing racist group The  Proud Boys ? I gave him a chance to explain his "member ship in known groups " which he wrote as some kind of explanation. I am still waiting for Timewise 60 to declare himself a racist, or to renounce his remarks about "America being invaded by evil immigrants and foreigners ".  Lets see how long it takes for  him to reply ???   To be perfectly clear, I am calling out this person, based on their words in this thread. If you missed it, go back to the beginning and read the thread from the start. JimB.


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## jimintoronto (Jun 18, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> All criminals should be rendered sterile. Criminal behaviour is often passed on from father to son. Children grow up thinking certain behaviour is acceptable, and copy what their fathers did.
> ...and before someone accuses me of being a Nazi....we are all living in the same society so we are all affected by crime. We are entitled to do whatever is necessary to protect ourselves.


So you are in favor of castrating men who have been convicted of the serious felony of gambling, or credit card fraud ? Can you also apply your middle ages torture to Women, who have been convicted of similar felonies ?? I can hardly wait to hear from the Sisterhood on this forum, about that atrocious idea. Lets rip out Angela's womb, for she has been convicted of car theft, or using heroin.  ARE YOU SERIOUS ? You obviously have NOT thought this through  , at all. JimB.


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## Wontactmyage (Jun 18, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> Sill waiting to hear from Timewise 60, who I challenged about his statement that VERY closely matched a hate slogan espoused by the far right wing racist group The  Proud Boys ? I gave him a chance to explain his "member ship in known groups " which he wrote as some kind of explanation. I am still waiting for Timewise 60 to declare himself a racist, or to renounce his remarks about "America being invaded by evil immigrants and foreigners ".  Lets see how long it takes for  him to reply ???   To be perfectly clear, I am calling out this person, based on their words in this thread. If you missed it, go back to the beginning and read the thread from the start. JimB.


I hope they do not reply to you. Disappointed in you for this type of calling out.


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## Wontactmyage (Jun 18, 2022)

Robert59 said:


> Father's Day is this weekend but as we celebrate we must not forget the millions of children who are growing up without a dad in the home.​As our country commemorates Father’s Day this weekend, it is important that we recognize the millions of children throughout our nation who are growing up without their fathers. Data from the United States Census Bureau shows that nearly 18.5 million children grow up without their fathers, which has in return led to the United States owning the title of the world’s leader in fatherlessness.
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/america-crisis-fathers


I was not a fatherless child but I was a child that my biological male chose not to be a father to four of the children he bore with my mother. He left all four of us (plus my mother) when I was two and my oldest sister was about six. He never tried to touch our lives as we grew. He did not financially assist us for any part of our lives. I was the only child that kept attempting to “know” him. About a year ago his time was near. I had hoped he would reach out but upon my arrival he said “I wish it would have been my mother rather than me”. It was then that I was there to help his current wife see him to the other side. I believed I honored my grandparents (his dead parents) for being there for his natural passing.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 18, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> I think that situation has been over for a long time (there used to be laws giving preference to the mothers but that changed long ago).  From what I've read, nowadays fathers win custody in court a little more than 50% of contested cases, and the reason most of the time women get custody is because the fathers agree/want the mother to have custody and don't contest it.
> 
> _"Beginning in the 1970s a major swing in custody law sharply reversed what had been a well-entrenched preference for mothers. Most states adopted laws conferring an equal status on the custodial rights of mother and father with a favorable attitude toward joint custody."_


Thanks for the update. back in the late 1930s my dad got custody of his two kids,  my 'steps'.. His ex had issues. That was extremely rare.


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## dseag2 (Jun 18, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> Sill waiting to hear from Timewise 60, who I challenged about his statement that VERY closely matched a hate slogan espoused by the far right wing racist group The  Proud Boys ? I gave him a chance to explain his "member ship in known groups " which he wrote as some kind of explanation. I am still waiting for Timewise 60 to declare himself a racist, or to renounce his remarks about "America being invaded by evil immigrants and foreigners ".  Lets see how long it takes for  him to reply ???   To be perfectly clear, I am calling out this person, based on their words in this thread. If you missed it, go back to the beginning and read the thread from the start. JimB.


I'm not sure that some racists even realize they are racist, but their comments tell it all.  You called it right!


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> Nice try to slide off the point. Are you a racist ? Do you really support the idea that Americans are being displaced by evil immigrants ? What " known groups " do YOU belong to ? JimB.


Well,   timewise may or may not be wrong, 
but you jim are definitely wrong and mis-quoting him to boot.
Not "known" groups, but "know" groups.
He belongs to "no groups",  see?   Phonetic/ voice to text does not always get it right, right ?


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Check the data!


Yes, as difficult as it is,  the facts do show that criminals - of all colors including white - have been flocking to this country day and night for decades.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 18, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> America's crisis is a lack of fathers​
> Seems plenty of fathers to me
> 
> Maybe the title s/be;
> ...


And a lack of women who actually care whether the person they're "dating" has the potential to be a responsible father or not.


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## Gary O' (Jun 18, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> And a lack of women who actually care whether the person they're "dating" has the potential to be a responsible father or not.


I s'pose
However, it's us guys that control that pokey thing...or should


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 19, 2022)

jimintoronto...Wow, I was surprised how quickly you pulled out the 'primary Liberal' attack word used against those that disagree with you, 'racist'!  Shame on you!  I had hoped you were better than that, but you actually are not, just another angry liberal...​As a Canadian, you know nothing about American Citizens or how deeply we honor that blessing in our lives. When foreigners sneak into our country, ignoring our laws and requirements to become citizen's, we are offended and want them to be thrown out of our country and told to get in line behind the thousands of people now in line waiting to become American citizens.​This does not apply to any particular race or nationality only to *those who come into our country illegally.*  And yes, that includes Canadians also!  It is not important to me that you do not like how we run our country, as you have nothing to say about it!


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## JaniceM (Jun 19, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> jimintoronto...Wow, I was surprised how quickly you pulled out the 'primary Liberal' attack word used against those that disagree with you, 'racist'!  Shame on you!  I had hoped you were better than that, but you actually are not, just another angry liberal...​As a Canadian, you know nothing about American Citizens or how deeply we honor that blessing in our lives. When foreigners sneak into our country, ignoring our laws and requirements to become citizen's, we are offended and want them to be thrown out of our country and told to get in line behind the thousands of people now in line waiting to become American citizens.​This does not apply to any particular race or nationality only to *those who come into our country illegally.*  And yes, that includes Canadians also!  It is not important to me that you do not like how we run our country, as you have nothing to say about it!


I kinda get irked when anyone throws around the word 'we' (and variations) as if he/she is speaking for everybody...


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 19, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I kinda get irked when anyone throws around the word 'we' (and variations) as if he/she is speaking for everybody...


Yep, my bad, I forgot for a moment that some Americans actually do not honor this country!  So, I will use MOST next time...


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 19, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> Sill waiting to hear from Timewise 60, who I challenged about his statement that VERY closely matched a hate slogan espoused by the far right wing racist group The  Proud Boys ? I gave him a chance to explain his "member ship in known groups " which he wrote as some kind of explanation. I am still waiting for Timewise 60 to declare himself a racist, or to renounce his remarks about "America being invaded by evil immigrants and foreigners ".  Lets see how long it takes for  him to reply ???   To be perfectly clear, I am calling out this person, based on their words in this thread. If you missed it, go back to the beginning and read the thread from the start. JimB.


Please check your quote.  Unless it was edited by him, those are not his precise words.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 19, 2022)

U.S. has world's highest rate of children living in single-parent ...
https://www.pewresearch.org › fact-tank › 2019/12/12

Dec 12, 2019 — 
"Almost a quarter of U.S. children under the age of 18 live with one parent and no other adults (23%), more than three times the share of children around the world who do so (7%). The study, which analyzed how people’s living arrangements differ by religion, also found that U.S. children from Christian and religiously unaffiliated families are about equally likely to live in this type of arrangement.

In comparison, 3% of children in China, 4% of children in Nigeria and 5% of children in India live in single-parent households. In neighboring Canada, the share is 15%."


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## horseless carriage (Jun 19, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Our population continues to grow based on legal immigration coupled with illegal immigration.  As a society we are doomed to be taken over by people who are not American citizens.


That's more or less what happened a few centuries ago when Europeans and others claimed the land from the natives that were living there.


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## SeniorBen (Jun 19, 2022)

Our economic policies over the past 50 or so years decimated the middle class, which is highly correlated with the increase in single-mother births and single parent households. Correlation is not necessarily causation, but in this case, it could be.


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## JaniceM (Jun 19, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Yep, my bad, I forgot for a moment that some Americans actually do not honor this country!  So, I will use MOST next time...


I was referring to your comments about immigrants.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 19, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Our economic policies over the past 50 or so years decimated the middle class, which is highly correlated with the increase in single-mother births and single parent households. Correlation is not necessarily causation, but in this case, it could be.


The same policies *might* correlate with the increasing national debt starting around the same time.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 19, 2022)

Paco Dennis said:


> Either the human race becomes a nice shade of brown or we kill ourselves.


There's a theory that says people started out very much on the brown side and those of us who moved north gradually lightened up so they could absorb the necessary amount of vitamin D from the limited sunshine up there. Homogeny could be detrimental.


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## JaniceM (Jun 19, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> There's a theory that says people started out very much on the brown side and those of us who moved north gradually lightened up so they could absorb the necessary amount of vitamin D from the limited sunshine up there. Homogeny could be detrimental.


As the human race did originate in Africa, that does make sense.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 19, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> I s'pose
> However, it's us guys that control that pokey thing...or should


Controlling that thing takes a great deal of concentration, discipline, and effort while guys are within a certain age-range, a very wide age range for a lot of us. It's like living with an extremely persuasive "yes man" in your pants.


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 19, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> Please check your quote.  Unless it was edited by him, those are not his precise words.


Em, thanks for calling him out on this.  I did not have to edit anything, he just made it up.   It is always troubling when folks tell lies to try and justify what they say!

Still waiting to hear from jimintoronto so he can apologize for changing my words so he can justify his rude accusation!


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## Murrmurr (Jun 19, 2022)

Robert59 said:


> Father's Day is this weekend but as we celebrate we must not forget the millions of children who are growing up without a dad in the home.​... *it is important that we recognize the millions of children throughout our nation who are growing up without their fathers.* Data from the United States Census Bureau shows that nearly 18.5 million children grow up without their fathers, which has in return led to the United States owning the title of the world’s leader in fatherlessness.


It should concern everyone that the increase in single-parent homes lines up perfectly with an increase in teen pregnancies, robberies, school drop-out rates, poverty, the cost of social programs, domestic violence, child abuse, drug addiction, auto-thefts, gangs, the national debt, the social-security crisis, the unemployment rate, and I probably could go on.

If you want to see graphs, go to ourworldindata.org or just look it up. Our World in Data is only one site where you can find pertinent graphs.


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## SeniorBen (Jun 19, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> The same policies *might* correlate with the increasing national debt starting around the same time.


The massive deficits and resultant soaring debt began in the 1980s, so more like 40 years. In 1981, the debt was about 1 trillion dollars. By 1989, it had tripled to three trillion.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 19, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> There's a theory that says people started out very much on the brown side and those of us who moved north gradually lightened up so they could absorb the necessary amount of vitamin D from the limited sunshine up there. Homogeny could be detrimental.


Theory: As the polar ice caps melt, humankind will have to flee to inland equatorial regions where we will re-evolve into that really gorgeous shade of brown.  (-;


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 19, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> As the human race did originate in Africa, that does make sense.


That's were all the existing evidence shows humankind began.

What continent did early humans begin on?




Eastern Africa

"The earliest humans developed out of australopithecine ancestors after about 3 million years ago, most likely in *Eastern Africa*, most likely in the area of the Kenyan Rift Valley, where the oldest known stone tools were found."
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Early_human_migrations


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 19, 2022)

How fortunate I was:  I treasure the memory of my father, with his common sense and compassionate views.  He didn't let nationalism, nor racism, limit the number of friends welcomed into our home to dine at our table.  Happy Father's Day.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 19, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Em, thanks for calling him out on this.  I did not have to edit anything, he just made it up.   It is always troubling when folks tell lies to try and justify what they say!
> 
> Still waiting to hear from jimintoronto so he can apologize for changing my words so he can justify his rude accusation!


I wasn't trying to call him out.  I'm just a bit fussy about accurate quotations, especially on this forum.  It sometimes gets confusing as to who said what, but this mistake was pretty glaring.


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## JaniceM (Jun 20, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> It should concern everyone that the increase in single-parent homes lines up perfectly with an increase in teen pregnancies, robberies, school drop-out rates, poverty, the cost of social programs, domestic violence, child abuse, drug addiction, auto-thefts, gangs, the national debt, the social-security crisis, the unemployment rate, and I probably could go on.
> 
> If you want to see graphs, go to ourworldindata.org or just look it up. Our World in Data is only one site where you can find pertinent graphs.


Instead, they should say it "can be" a contributing factor.  But it's more about how parents approach their kids than how many (parents) there are.


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## Timewise 60+ (Jun 20, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> That's more or less what happened a few centuries ago when Europeans and others claimed the land from the natives that were living there.


It was not illegal then!  Nothing 'more or less about it' Our Congress and Presidents wanted immigration to build our population...

Immigration laws are established by our Congress and approved by the President.  They can be changed anytime by Congress.  Until or unless they are changed, our Justice Department should be actively enforcing these laws!  If they, don't it is a major breach of our laws and the Justice Department, and their leaders should be held accountable by Congress!  It is not some much about the illegals as it is about our laws and enforcement there of!


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## StarSong (Jun 20, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I think guys get a raw deal at times. And before there's 8,000 posts, yes, men do have other privileges. But when it comes to family court, mom rules. In the vast majority of divorces, who gets the kids? Why don't dads get the kids 50% of the time? Men don't have any say over their unborn children. Men are required to pay "child support" for 18 years, but they have little guarantee they will see their kids during those years. I believe the family court marginalizes fathers.


Can't comment on other states but in California parents generally share custody, 50/50.  It's been this way for a long time.


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## JaniceM (Jun 20, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> It was not illegal then!  Nothing 'more or less about it' Our Congress and Presidents wanted immigration to build our population...
> 
> Immigration laws are established by our Congress and approved by the President.  They can be changed anytime by Congress.  Until or unless they are changed, our Justice Department should be actively enforcing these laws!  If they, don't it is a major breach of our laws and the Justice Department, and their leaders should be held accountable by Congress!  It is not some much about the illegals as it is about our laws and enforcement there of!


Yeah I guess stealing land and murdering people wasn't 'illegal' back then...


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## oldman (Jun 20, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> Sill waiting to hear from Timewise 60, who I challenged about his statement that VERY closely matched a hate slogan espoused by the far right wing racist group The  Proud Boys ? I gave him a chance to explain his "member ship in known groups " which he wrote as some kind of explanation. I am still waiting for Timewise 60 to declare himself a racist, or to renounce his remarks about "America being invaded by evil immigrants and foreigners ".  Lets see how long it takes for  him to reply ???   To be perfectly clear, I am calling out this person, based on their words in this thread. If you missed it, go back to the beginning and read the thread from the start. JimB.


No, you are trying to start a mouth battle. He already explained his position. Why can’t you accept it and move on? Because you want to begin a tirade of e-mails that only causes members to leave the forum.

Even inferring someone may be a racist is not a good thing to do. Many of us take these offensive remarks very seriously. Time for you to take a break, please.


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## oldman (Jun 20, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I'm not sure that some racists even realize they are racist, but their comments tell it all.  You called it right!


This person may or may not be a racist. We don’t know and therefore should not be accusatory. I have often heard that people who accuse you of being something is what they are. It’s called deflection. His statements are debatable. Keep it at that. Have an open and honest discussion, but never jump to conclusions. We should respect each other’s viewpoints, unless they proven they truly are what you think they are.

Maybe listening to this short YouTube will give us all a little something to think about.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 20, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Instead, they should say it "can be" a contributing factor.  But it's more about how parents approach their kids than how many (parents) there are.


The issue IS parenting, single or not. But data shows that single parent homes are producing far more poor students and bad citizens, and in a huge majority of those homes (over 85%) the head of household is a single mother. Today's policy-makers don't want to talk about that too much because it smacks of woman-blaming.

My foster son turned 4 this month. When CPS placed him with me, he was not quite a month old. When CPS took him from my home to "reunite" him with his mother, he was 30 months old. He lived with his mother for about 8 months, but spent every weekend with me. Most of those weekends were 4 days long. CPS took him from his mother a second time and placed him with a foster couple in another city. He was there for 9 months, and after the first 4 months, they let him stay with me almost every weekend. CPS returned him to his mother again about 2 months ago. They live in a family shelter with other troubled mothers and their troubled kids. He has lost interest in school and learning, art, music, sports and nature, all the things he used to love. He's become sullen, withdrawn, angry and bullying. He is not the same child at all, and his future is bleak.


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## JaniceM (Jun 20, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> The issue IS parenting, single or not. But data shows that single parent homes are producing far more poor students and bad citizens, and in a huge majority of those homes (over 85%) the head of household is a single mother. Today's policy-makers don't want to talk about that too much because it smacks of woman-blaming.
> 
> My foster son turned 4 this month. When CPS placed him with me, he was not quite a month old. When CPS took him from my home to "reunite" him with his mother, he was 30 months old. He lived with his mother for about 8 months, but spent every weekend with me. Most of those weekends were 4 days long. CPS took him from his mother a second time and placed him with a foster couple in another city. He was there for 9 months, and after the first 4 months, they let him stay with me almost every weekend. CPS returned him to his mother again about 2 months ago. They live in a family shelter with other troubled mothers and their troubled kids. He has lost interest in school and learning, art, music, sports and nature, all the things he used to love. He's become sullen, withdrawn, angry and bullying. He is not the same child at all, and his future is bleak.


That sucks about your foster child..  I hope things work out for him somehow.  I'm not an expert, but it sounds to me like he bonded with you, and is probably having problems because he was taken away from you and sent to a person who's a stranger to him.  

Re: your first paragraph, though (and previous post)-  it was in the mid-1990s (long before I ever saw a computer) that it was said kids from single parent/mother households are nearly doomed to fail in life, especially in their educations... Shortly after this was all over the news, my oldest came home with an exceptionally-high score on SAT.  
My kids have college degrees, and one has multiple degrees.  
Neither has been in any trouble with the law, other than a speeding ticket;  never got into drinking/drugs;  and- wording this as politely as possible-  didn't have the 'lifestyle' that would lead to teenage pregnancies (male or female).  
They've done quite well so far, and I believe they'll continue to do so.. although they were raised by a single mother..


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## StarSong (Jun 20, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> The issue IS parenting, single or not. But data shows that single parent homes are producing far more poor students and bad citizens, and in a huge majority of those homes (over 85%) the head of household is a single mother. Today's policy-makers don't want to talk about that too much because it smacks of woman-blaming.
> 
> My foster son turned 4 this month. When CPS placed him with me, he was not quite a month old. When CPS took him from my home to "reunite" him with his mother, he was 30 months old. He lived with his mother for about 8 months, but spent every weekend with me. Most of those weekends were 4 days long. CPS took him from his mother a second time and placed him with a foster couple in another city. He was there for 9 months, and after the first 4 months, they let him stay with me almost every weekend. CPS returned him to his mother again about 2 months ago. They live in a family shelter with other troubled mothers and their troubled kids. He has lost interest in school and learning, art, music, sports and nature, all the things he used to love. He's become sullen, withdrawn, angry and bullying. He is not the same child at all, and his future is bleak.


This mother was a hot mess from the get-go.  I understand the importance of keeping families together when possible, but it seems to me that the pendulum has swung too far in favor of birth parents and too far from what would truly be best for the child(ren).    

Frank, would you have adopted this little boy if that had been possible?  Seems to me you're the best, most stable parent he's had.


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## Pepper (Jun 20, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> They live in a family shelter with other troubled mothers and their troubled kids. *He has lost interest in school and learning, art, music, sports and nature, all the things he used to love. He's become sullen, withdrawn, angry and bullying. He is not the same child at all, and his future is bleak.*


Did Jackie tell you that, or a worker?  My heart is breaking; I don't know this kid, but I feel I know you (somewhat).


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## Murrmurr (Jun 20, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Did Jackie tell you that, or a worker?  My heart is breaking; I don't know this kid, but I feel I know you (somewhat).


Yes, Jackie told me, but his caseworker gave me enough hints to make me want to call Jackie and ask.


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## Pepper (Jun 20, 2022)

I'm crushed for this little kid, Frank.  His heart must hurt so badly.


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## feywon (Jun 20, 2022)

Which  crisis???  At this point there are several.

We can not blame all that is wrong currently  on any one factor, there is a confluence,  a perfect storm of many. Nor can blame be put exclusively on men or women. But i'll stick to core issue of family composition to avoid getting into political factors.

 i have long held that much of our modern social ills are not from the break up of the nuclear family (Mom, Dad, kids) but rather from massive reduction in extended family ties (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins). 

There have always been families without fathers due to illnesses, wars, or abandonment. (Historically if wife died men tended to remarry, or if wealthy hired nannies). But when the extended family lived nearby, so visits were not just on holidays but involved eveyday life more often, the family could become a safety net.  Uncles and older male cousins could become role models.  

Even when a nuclear family is intact,  frequent non-special occasion contact with extended family could provide a lot of social education.  I had infrequent contact with my extended family until i was 10. Then i took full advantage of of having them around.

You learn that very different kinds of marriages can still 'work' and be healthy for both partners. You get to observe many different parentng styles/techniques not just the contast between your own Mom and Dad.

As extended family interactions decreased, parents began expecting schools to more. And teachers already had hands full with teaching their curriculums.  Peers, TV, movies became bigger factors, tho studies well into the 90s (i haven't checked for newer ones) showed parental influence was still prime one for most kids. 

Of course if the extended family is toxic, as  some are, there can be a downside to close contact. But  I think even more recent studies still show that if parent(s) toxic that having even one adult that cares enough to listen well, to set healthy limits, while being supportive emotionally can build resiliency in children that allows survivors of neglectful or abusive parents to grow into healthy adults that break what is often a multigenerational legacy of neglect &/or abuse.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 20, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I'm crushed for this little kid, Frank.  His heart must hurt so badly.


I wonder sometimes (too often) if, along with a bunch of other emotional baggage, he carries a feeling of betrayal, and that he thinks I'm the one who betrayed him.

Understandably, foster parents are discouraged from criticizing bio-parents. I never did, not because you're not supposed to, but because it's damaging to the kids. Little kids tend to feel they are like their parents....you know, like if their parents are bad or stupid or criminal or mean, then maybe they are too. But my stomach sinks every time I remember telling him his mommy is nice and that she loved and missed him, and was trying to be better and stuff. And then I was all smiles and all positive as he was being loaded into the van that took him "home". And a few months later, on his weekend visits I'm seeing bruises and scratches and adult sized handprints all over him, and he's saying mommy did it, and he's pleading with me to not let her pick him up and take him home - but I let her. Taking off with him would've been a felony. I could've gone to prison and gotten a lifetime No Contact Order.

Believe me, I thought about it. I mulled over a few plans and talked to a couple of potential aid-and-abetters. But I reported her to CPS instead. And I sent a bunch of photos. I posted some of them on here, in the Diaries Forum. They're pretty graphic. The abuse is freaking obvious, and yet CPS reunited him and his mother....again.

So I didn't renew my foster care license this month. You're supposed to renew annually, but I can't, man. Not for CPS. They're so messed up; tax-funded manufacturers of criminals and thugs, personality disorders and deviates.


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## Della (Jun 20, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> That sucks about your foster child..  I hope things work out for him somehow.  I'm not an expert, but it sounds to me like he bonded with you, and is probably having problems because he was taken away from you and sent to a person who's a stranger to him.
> 
> Re: your first paragraph, though (and previous post)-  it was in the mid-1990s (long before I ever saw a computer) that it was said kids from single parent/mother households are nearly doomed to fail in life, especially in their educations... Shortly after this was all over the news, my oldest came home with an exceptionally-high score on SAT.
> My kids have college degrees, and one has multiple degrees.
> ...


It sounds like you were a great mother, but your experience doesn't refute the statistics. 

 No one ever said that _every single_  child raised in a single parent home will fail in life, the statistics simply say that they are far more likely to fail than those raised in two parent homes. 

 I'm sure I could find anecdotal stories about children raised in single parent homes that ended up in prison,* but that wouldn't mean they all did.  Anecdotal stories about individuals prove nothing. It's the stats over large groups that show the true story over all.

**72% percent of adolescents serving sentences for murder are from fatherless households*. 71% of high-school dropouts are from fatherless homes. 75% of kids in drug rehabs are from fatherless homes. 75% of the long-term correctional facility inmates are from father-absent households.

For every superwoman who is capable of being June and Ward Cleaver combined there are a lot who just can't manage that.  Two is better than one in so many ways, two to make good decisions, two to balance out the disciplinarian with the nurturer, two so one can stay home while one earns money, or two to earn money.  If one parent becomes ill, the other one is there.  It's particularly hard on boys to not have a same sex role model in the home and girls  benefit from having a loving father so that they wont be so desperate for validation from boys.


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## Murrmurr (Jun 20, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> That sucks about your foster child..  I hope things work out for him somehow.  I'm not an expert, but it sounds to me like he bonded with you, and is probably having problems because he was taken away from you and sent to a person who's a stranger to him.
> 
> Re: your first paragraph, though (and previous post)-  it was in the mid-1990s (long before I ever saw a computer) that it was said kids from single parent/mother households are nearly doomed to fail in life, especially in their educations... Shortly after this was all over the news, my oldest came home with an exceptionally-high score on SAT.
> My kids have college degrees, and one has multiple degrees.
> ...


Mine were raised by me, their single dad. They're all doing very well.

That 90s data has gotten worse. That data is hard to find these days; doesn't get the publicity it used to get (hiding program failures). 

Not too long ago, not quite a decade, I think, the SAT tests were altered (again) with the goal of improving US student's scores. It didn't work as well as the Dept of Ed hoped. Last year, it debated doing away with SATs altogether. They said it's an unfair measure because the US is multicultural (as if all US immigrants are dumb and hopelessly uneducable). I'm pretty sure it's actually because the US's global education rank keeps dropping year after year, and that's because schools are becoming less focused on academics and more on shaping a "more perfect society."


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## SeniorBen (Jun 20, 2022)

This documentary might contain some answers about the problems with education in America.





I haven't watched it yet. It's available for free on Kanopy and it's in my watchlist. I'll take a look after my workout in a little while and report back.


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## dseag2 (Jun 20, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> The issue IS parenting, single or not. But data shows that single parent homes are producing far more poor students and bad citizens, and in a huge majority of those homes (over 85%) the head of household is a single mother. Today's policy-makers don't want to talk about that too much because it smacks of woman-blaming.
> 
> My foster son turned 4 this month. When CPS placed him with me, he was not quite a month old. When CPS took him from my home to "reunite" him with his mother, he was 30 months old. He lived with his mother for about 8 months, but spent every weekend with me. Most of those weekends were 4 days long. CPS took him from his mother a second time and placed him with a foster couple in another city. He was there for 9 months, and after the first 4 months, they let him stay with me almost every weekend. CPS returned him to his mother again about 2 months ago. They live in a family shelter with other troubled mothers and their troubled kids. He has lost interest in school and learning, art, music, sports and nature, all the things he used to love. He's become sullen, withdrawn, angry and bullying. He is not the same child at all, and his future is bleak.


I'm so sorry to hear that about Paxton.  He has been your focus for so long.  I know you could have created such a better life for him.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 21, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> This documentary might contain some answers about the problems with education in America.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I find it interesting that the image shows nothing but older white men. Some that I recognize are _rich_, older, white men. As a 'cover image,' this is a bit of a turn-off for me.  I'm pretty sure their kids got far better educations than the majority of US students, regardless if _they_ were absentee dads.






Did you watch it?  What was your impression?  I'll wait to watch it until I see a response  (-;


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## SeniorBen (Jun 21, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> I find it interesting that the image shows nothing but older white men. Some that I recognize are _rich_, older, white men. As a 'cover image,' this is a bit of a turn-off for me.  I'm pretty sure their kids got far better educations than the majority of US students, regardless if _they_ were absentee dads.
> 
> Did you watch it?  What was your impression?  I'll wait to watch it until I see a response  (-;


I didn't get a chance to watch it last night. I'll take a look this evening.

The reason they're all rich old men is because education has become more of a business enterprise than what it should be, which is a means to educate the students. It's been that way for decades. Administrators earn more than most of the professors at universities where they use adjunct professors instead of full-time professors. Profits are the only thing that matter at some of the private universities and students graduate with worthless degrees and 100s of thousands of dollars of debt.


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## StarSong (Jun 21, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Administrators earn more than most of the professors at universities where they use adjunct professors instead of full-time professors. Profits are the only thing that matter at some of the private universities and students graduate with worthless degrees and 100s of thousands of dollars of debt.


My son's neighbor has a PhD and is an adjunct university professor - also an Uber driver, a tutor for struggling elementary school students and a Google Street View photographer.    

Years ago I was impressed when I heard someone was a professor at a prestigious university.  Now I feel sorry for them - they're part of the gig economy.  Cool and interesting when you're in your twenties, not so much in your fifties.


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## SeniorBen (Jun 21, 2022)

StarSong said:


> My son's neighbor has a PhD and is an adjunct university professor - also an Uber driver, a tutor for struggling elementary school students and a Google Street View photographer.
> 
> Years ago I was impressed when I heard someone was a professor at a prestigious university.  Now I feel sorry for them - they're part of the gig economy.  Cool and interesting when you're in your twenties, not so much in your fifties.


One of my old neighbors was an adjunct professor at a religious university. What else is he going to do with a PhD. in religion, at least until he gets hired on full time somewhere. He said he loved talking about religion all day, so there's that, but he wasn't making much money.


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## Pepper (Jun 21, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> One of my old neighbors was an adjunct professor at a religious university. What else is he going to do with a PhD. in religion, at least until he gets hired on full time somewhere. *He said he loved talking about religion all day, so there's that, but he wasn't making much money.*


He Loved what he was doing---isn't that a purpose unto itself?


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## horseless carriage (Jun 21, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> It was not illegal then!  Nothing 'more or less about it'


Really? Try telling that to Algonquin, Iroquois, Huron, Wampanoag, Mohican, Mohegan, Ojibwa, Ho-chunk, Sauk, Fox, and Illinois people.
And tell the  Inuit and Métis of Canada, The  Polynesian Māori of New Zealand or the Aboriginal peoples of Australia.

Nothing illegal? Typically first English then British, using their own laws for their own ends to ride roughshod over the natives whose land they possessed.


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## Patricia (Jun 21, 2022)

Robert59 said:


> Father's Day is this weekend but as we celebrate we must not forget the millions of children who are growing up without a dad in the home.​As our country commemorates Father’s Day this weekend, it is important that we recognize the millions of children throughout our nation who are growing up without their fathers. Data from the United States Census Bureau shows that nearly 18.5 million children grow up without their fathers, which has in return led to the United States owning the title of the world’s leader in fatherlessness.
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/america-crisis-fathers


Yes, it's sad to see the end result of so many broken homes.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> It's been that way for decades. Administrators earn more than most of the professors at universities where they use adjunct professors instead of full-time professors. Profits are the only thing that matter at some of the private universities and students graduate with worthless degrees and 100s of thousands of dollars of debt.


Yep.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 21, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> Really? Try telling that to Algonquin, Iroquois, Huron, Wampanoag, Mohican, Mohegan, Ojibwa, Ho-chunk, Sauk, Fox, and Illinois people.
> And tell the Inuit and Métis of Canada, The  Polynesian Māori of New Zealand or the Aboriginal peoples of Australia.
> 
> Nothing illegal? Typically first English then British, using their own laws for their own ends to ride roughshod over the natives whose land they possessed.


I thought the 'Brit Empire' was doing that long long before the English.
Now both, 
and citizens are left without recourse often.


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## Tish (Jun 21, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> America's crisis is a lack of fathers​
> Seems plenty of fathers to me
> 
> Maybe the title s/be;
> ...


Hear hear! The same situation over here as well.
You have babies (high school age)  having babies some by accident and some to collect Centrelink government payments


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## Remy (Jun 21, 2022)

I got an America hero for a bio-dad who didn't do anything to raise me and an enabler stepfather to my mentally ill mother. We really missed out in the dad department. My stepfather was a provider, I'll give him that, but never a dad.


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## SeniorBen (Jun 21, 2022)

Pepper said:


> He Loved what he was doing---isn't that a purpose unto itself?


It is, but it's even better if you can earn a decent living doing it.


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## SeniorBen (Jun 21, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> I find it interesting that the image shows nothing but older white men. Some that I recognize are _rich_, older, white men. As a 'cover image,' this is a bit of a turn-off for me.  I'm pretty sure their kids got far better educations than the majority of US students, regardless if _they_ were absentee dads.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was an interesting primer on how the free market might be good for the computer industry, it's horrible for education. They focused mainly on what happened in two counties in Colorado where big, outside money bought an election that put free market school boards in charge and they tried to privatize the public school systems at the expense of taxpayers.

The dishonesty of some people is really disgusting. The good thing is, if good people fight back, they can win.


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## horseless carriage (Jun 22, 2022)

Just Jeff said:


> I thought the 'Brit Empire' was doing that long long before the English.


The Acts of Union, passed by the English and Scottish Parliaments in 1707, led to the creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain on 1 May of that year. The UK Parliament met for the first time in October 1707.
Then on Jan. 1, 1801, The act of Union,  legislative agreement uniting Great Britain, England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland under the name of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 24, 2022)

To clarify English/ British .... ... usa/ britain or other ? 


horseless carriage said:


> The Acts of Union, passed by the English and Scottish Parliaments in 1707, led to the creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain on 1 May of that year. The UK Parliament met for the first time in October 1707.
> Then on Jan. 1, 1801, The act of Union,  legislative agreement uniting Great Britain, England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland under the name of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.





horseless carriage said:


> Really? Try telling that to Algonquin, Iroquois, Huron, Wampanoag, Mohican, Mohegan, Ojibwa, Ho-chunk, Sauk, Fox, and Illinois people.
> And tell the Inuit and Métis of Canada, The  Polynesian Māori of New Zealand or the Aboriginal peoples of Australia.
> 
> Nothing illegal? Typically first English then British, using their own laws for their own ends to ride roughshod over the natives whose land they possessed.


"first English then British" refers to usa and britain ? 


Just Jeff said:


> I thought the 'Brit Empire' was doing that long long before the English.
> Now both,
> and citizens are left without recourse often.


So then,  they did do that long long before the English (usa? or brit?) ?


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