# A crazed psychopath



## Justme (Mar 6, 2014)

I can't understand how the deity featured in the Bible could be described as a 'God of love' when the actions attributed to it are more like those of a crazed psychopath! Satan is supposed to be the evil one, yet he certainly couldn't be any worse. One can only suppose that when reading the Bible those who call the actions of the deity 'loving' are wearing rose tinted specs!  Could a Christian who looks at god in this way explain why, for instance, flooding the planet and killing everything on it, except the sycophant Noah, his family and a few animals, could be described as an act of 'love'?

I was brought up in a Bible believing home, attended a Pentecostal church (Elim) as a youngster and did the 'born again' bit at eleven. I lost my faith by the time I married at 19, as the doubts were too overwhelming to sweep under the carpet. I consider myself an agnostic. A deity could possibly exist somewhere but I don't think humans are in communication with it. I think all faiths are purely human creations.


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## Justme (Mar 6, 2014)

The problem is whilst some beliefs are fairly benign, some are positively abusive. The 'you must be 'saved' or burn in hell' nasty dogma gave me horrible nightmares as a kid! Telling a child or the vulnerable a tale like that, when there isn't the slightest shred of evidence to back it up, is very cruel, imo.


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## Geezerette (Mar 6, 2014)

I was brought up RC & believe in the 10 commandments & "golden rule" type ethics, but I can't "worship" a god who is said to be " merciful" when there is so much abuse, torture & suffering of innocent babies, children & animals going on not only in my home city & state but all over the planet. Not only that, but the clergy here are very politically involved at both left & right ends of the spectrum, & I really question why the churches should have tax exempt status when they put millions into bricks& mortar, sound & video systems, vehicles, etc . My father was agnostic, but a totally honest, ethical, humane person. Ironically, I "pray" regularly, but think of it as sending out positive thoughts into the world.


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## Falcon (Mar 6, 2014)

Justme said:


> I can't understand how the deity featured in the Bible could be described as a 'God of love' when the actions attributed to it are more like those of a crazed psychopath! Satan is supposed to be the evil one, yet he certainly couldn't be any worse. One can only suppose that when reading the Bible those who call the actions of the deity 'loving' are wearing rose tinted specs!  Could a Christian who looks at god in this way explain why, for instance, flooding the planet and killing everything on it, except the sycophant Noah, his family and a few animals, could be described as an act of 'love'?
> 
> I was brought up in a Bible believing home, attended a Pentecostal church (Elim) as a youngster and did the 'born again' bit at eleven. I lost my faith by the time I married at 19, as the doubts were too overwhelming to sweep under the carpet. I consider myself an agnostic. A deity could possibly exist somewhere but I don't think humans are in communication with it. I think all faiths are purely human creations.


You're not alone in your thinking. I totally agree with you.  It was Lenin who said, "God didn't make man; Man

made "God". I don't need a crutch that controls my life.


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## rkunsaw (Mar 6, 2014)

Christians always talk about the exodus and being led by god to the promised land. Most don't have a clue about what the bible says about it. Why would it take god 40 years to lead them less than 400 miles?
The promised land..... Most Christians think it was some new land that god put aside just for the Jews......wrong. The land (according to the bible) was occupied with numerous cities full of people. So god tells the Jews "there is the land I promised you, go kill everyone in it and it's yours."


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## That Guy (Mar 6, 2014)

We all know the advice about never discussing sex, religion and politics in polite company.  Of course, this is our clubhouse so anything goes.  We've certainly stepped in it now!  I'm just gonna say this and it may be a bit to grasp as it's a bit difficult to actually express.

I believe, or at least choose to believe, that GOD is of all things.  ALL THINGS.  The good, the bad and the ugly.  Micro to macro.  It is all of GOD.  What happens wonderful or terrible is of no significance in the great scheme of things.  We are but a blip on the radar.

People throughout time have tried to figure out just what is going on in their lives.  It's a symptom of this so called human intelligence.  So, a lot of, maybe well intentioned and often not, loud mouths started spouting this and that playing on the fears of the unwashed masses.  For the power hungry it's a great method of control.

As for the Christians . . . did a guy come to earth as the Son of GOD?  I really don't know.  But that guy Jesus is just alright with me!  (Reference The Dooby Brothers)

I care not to have anyone try to argue the point one way or the other.  I ain't tryin' to make you see like me or be like me and will gladly listen to your point of view but will not bow to the pressure to adhere.

Just for the record, I attended a Jesuit university and I'm not even Catholic (there's a wealth of material there . . . Catholicism).  The Jesuits just believed in good education so I chose that school for my degrees.  Anyway, of course there is a religious studies requirement and the above views failed miserably with my stick-up-the-butt professor . . .






"Humanity grew weary of it's doubtful state of mind
So it summoned from far and called from near
All the wise men thought to be sincere
To heal it's wounds and make it whole
And the lead the way back to the soul
The Charlatans they stayed behind
To count their bags of gold
And some stayed away as if to say
I know that my way's the only way
Afraid to learn they may be wrong
They preach their nothingness at home
But the wise men came together
With the hope to free mankind of the rubbish
That had gathered in God's name
To embrace and trust each other
In the search for the supreme and they found
That all their teachings were the same
And when at last the word went round
That all were one and all
Many returned to seek the light
Nobody claimed that he was right
It's sad to know it's just a song
To dream and hope still can't be wrong
But the wise men came together
With the hope to free man kind of the rubbish
That had gathered in God's name
To embrace and trust each other
In the search for the supreme and they found
That all their teachings were the same"

-- John Kay


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## Gael (Mar 6, 2014)

I hesitate to get into this as it's a subject that usually raises temper. For me, as a Christian, I am content with God's will in my life and I don't expect God to be a big cosmic cop and swoop down to solve all our problems in spite of our free will.

But it's true..

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 6, 2014)

I admire the Jesuits. 

They are heavy into education, not just religious but worldly as well. They have their own cryptologists that write codes for their communications, or so I've been led to believe. They have their fingers in every political system in the world and often occupy positions of influence in the corporate world.

Basically they're spies.


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## That Guy (Mar 6, 2014)




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## SeaBreeze (Mar 6, 2014)

I was raised as a Catholic, but no longer practice any religion.  Good values were instilled in me by my parents, and I did not rely on the church for those teachings.  I feel that I'm spiritual and believe in a higher power, but it's hard to describe what it may be.  There are times I do say a prayer, but it's nothing formal, and more of a personal action of care and well-wishes. 

 I resent when others try to push their religions on me, and I often stop it before it goes too far.  I respect everyone's right to believe the way they like, it's none of my business what they believe in.  The group here has had discussions in the past regarding 'hot topics', and conducted themselves in a very mature and respectful way, still getting their points and opinions across.  Cool folks here, not going to get nasty on this board.


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## Happyflowerlady (Mar 6, 2014)

I was raised by parents who believed in God completely, and my Mother studied her Bible every day. I didn't question any of what i was taught for many years, but now I am looking at everything again, and trying to make better sense out of the Bible and religion.
I beleive that this world didn't just spontaneously come into being, and develop as it has done; and I don't know who, or what created it; but I do believe that there was interaction from somewhere, that helped us to become what we are. 
It seems like most of organized religion has used God as a way to control people, and the holy scriptures have been changed to fit their requirements. Christian and Pagan holidays have been blended when Constantine wanted to bring everyone into one religion, so he could better control people, and now modern day Christians are very attached to their traditions, even though they were added in several centuries later. That makes me wonder what else was deliberately mis-written to achieve a political end ??

Now, I have been reading some of the Intervention Theory articles, and videos on youtube about that. Both Zachariah Sitchin and Lloyd Pye have some very different ideas about this world, and how humans developed here. I don't know if they are right either, but I like to read and consider possible theories, and they do have some explanations   that make good sense, at least to me.
I can't see blaming everything bad in the world on God, but not believing that it is also God who does all of the good things that happen. God either does it all, or He doesn't; and we creat our own life, for the most part.

Having said that, there are times in my life when something has happened that I have no other explanation for , except Divine Intervention. 
When I was little, we were driving down the highway, with a car full of people, and just about to make a sharp right, blind turn into an underpass/S-curve; when my mother suddenly pulled off the road and stopped. 
Before any of us could ask her why, one of those huge semi-trucks with a trailer load of cars came through the underpass, barely missing the concrete wall that was on OUR side of the highway ! If she had not stopped when she did, we would all have been squashed flat between the semi and the concrete wall.
There was no way that anyone could have known that the semi was on the other side of that blind S-curve, and Mom just said that God told her to stop right then, so she did. My Mom was like that. She asked God for help, and he always helped her.


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## Falcon (Mar 6, 2014)

I attended St. Xavier University in Cincinnati, OH, a Jesuit school. I always admired the Jesuits and went along with

their teachings. However I got my degree from Wayne University in Michigan. Today, I don't need religion, in any

form, in my life.  To each his/her own.


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## Geezerette (Mar 6, 2014)

Ditto to what sea breeze said about the mature and respectful attitudes here!


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## SifuPhil (Mar 6, 2014)

Happyflowerlady said:


> ... Having said that, there are times in my life when something has happened that I have no other explanation for , except Divine Intervention.
> 
> When I was little, we were driving down the highway, with a car full of people, and just about to make a sharp right, blind turn into an underpass/S-curve; when my mother suddenly pulled off the road and stopped.
> 
> ...



One of the best things I've done in my life, perhaps more useful than all the degrees in philosophy and psychology and metaphysics, was taking up magic as a hobby as a kid.

It taught me how easily people can be fooled into thinking that something can exist - or NOT exist - based upon only what their five senses tell them.

Well, now scientists are finally discovering that there are actually more than five senses - itching is a separate set of senses, as are tension sensors, proprioception, nociception, equilibrioception ... the list goes on and on.

Therefore it wouldn't surprise me in the least that we have some type of apparatus in ourselves that warns us of impending danger. I've felt this sense many times and it always turned out to be right, because I was trained to feel it when it happened. Some folks say the hairs on their neck go up or their "spidey sense" starts tingling - whatever the manifestation only the people who have become aware of it and know what it means are able to use it effectively.

Sometimes they don't even KNOW they have it - that's when they call it a "hunch" or a "gut feeling". They're simply at a loss to be able to explain and interpret it. So it isn't unusual to hear these people credit God for everything that happens, whereas if they understood their own body's signals a little better they might change their metaphysical views.


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## Happyflowerlady (Mar 6, 2014)

Sifu, I believe that you are very right about this point. I also believe that we have a LOT more abilities than we know about, or understand if we do know. 
I have had those premonitions that you are talking about, as well. Sometimes, I listened; sometimes, I didn't, and wished I had. 
Years ago, I had a little Poodle, and every nite , let him out for his last dog business before going to bed. One night, as i was letting him out, I had the thought come into my head that if I let him out, he would never come back. Since this seemed pretty unlikely to me, I let him out anyway.  
Well, he didn't come back. I went out with the flashlight, searched and searched, and that little fellow was nowhere to be found. 
Eventually,  crying, and wishing I had listened, I gave up and went to bed. The next morning, I found him in the back of the barn, behind the hay, chewed up and dead. 
I never knew what killed him, but after that hard lesson, I tried really hard to listen when I had those feelings, even when they seemed ridiculous. Mom always said, if you listen, you may never know what you escaped; but it you don't listen, you might know, and to your regret. Mom was right again.

Whether it is God, some sort of Cosmic Consciousness, or our own body has an "alert system"; there is definitely something there. I also believe that when we pray, whoever it is to; we tap into this power, and it can help us.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 7, 2014)

'The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars but in ourselves, that we are underlings.'
~Cassius, _Julius Caesar_, Act 1, Scene 2


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## That Guy (Mar 7, 2014)

"What if God was one of us
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make His way home?"

-- Joan Osborne


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## 0020Mariah (Mar 7, 2014)

*Respect and Tolerance to all religious beliefs.*

All religions have "holy books", and *all* *of* *them* claim same source: "*divine* *revelation*" by God himself to humanity.

Jews have The Torah (christian Old Testament), which was given to Moses in Mount Sinai by Yahweh. 
Islam have The Quran, given to Mohammed.
Hinduism have The Vedas.
Christians have The Bible (Old and New Testament). Christians know God by the name of Yahwe (Catholics) or Jehova. 

The main thing here is that those books were revelations given "by God" to a restricted number of groups of people. That happen thousand of years ago...!   What I find interesting is that the "newest" one, is the recorded words of *Jesus*, the so called "Four Gospels". In essence, all books give rules and commandments to help people to live in certain way, regulating their relationships with God and with each other.

We have to remember that in those times (thousand of years ago) common people didn't know how to read; this was reserved to nobility and priests. So, they had to invent something to "control" people. Now, all of that serves another purpose... divide humans trying to impose religion to each other. 

I was a catholic while growing up, but no more. I don't think in early XXIst century we need to live by any religion. Common Law, Respect and Tolerance is enough. We all are Homo Sapiens, humans.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 7, 2014)

*Cowboy Poetry*


*Jake, the rancher, went one day
 To fix a distant fence.
 The wind was cold and gusty
 And the clouds rolled gray and dense.

 As he pounded the last staples in
 And gathered tools to go,
 The temperature had fallen,
 The wind and snow began to blow.

 When he finally reached his pickup,
 He felt a heavy heart.
 From the sound of that ignition
 He knew it wouldn't start.

 So Jake did what most of us
 Would do if we had been there.
 He humbly bowed his balding head
 And sent aloft a prayer.

 As he turned the key for the last time,
 He softly cursed his luck
 They found him three days later,
 Frozen stiff in that old truck.

 Now Jake had been around in life
 And done his share of roaming.
 But when he saw Heaven, he was shocked --
 It looked just like Wyoming !

 Of all the saints in Heaven,
 His favorite was St. Peter.*
*
 So they sat and talked a minute or two,
 Or maybe it was three.
 Nobody was keeping' score --
 In Heaven, time is free.

 'I've always heard,' Jake said to Pete,
 'that God will answer prayer,
 But one time I asked for help,
 Well, he just plain wasn't there.'

 'Does God answer prayers of some,
 And ignore the prayers of others?
 That don't seem exactly square --
 I know all men are brothers.'

 'Or does he randomly reply,
 Without good rhyme or reason?
 Maybe, it's the time of day,
 The weather or the season.'

 'Now I ain't trying to act smart,
 It's just the way I feel.
 And I was wondering', could you tell me --
 What the heck's the deal?!'

 Peter listened very patiently
 And when Jake was done,
 There were smiles of recognition,
 And he said, 'So, you're the one!!'

 That day your truck, it wouldn't start,
 And you sent your prayer a flying,
 You gave us all a real bad time,
 With hundreds of us trying.'

 'A thousand angels rushed,
 To check the status of your file,
 But you know, Jake, we hadn't heard
 From you in quite a long while.'

 'And though all prayers are answered,
 And God ain't got no quota,
 He didn't recognize your voice,
 And started a truck in Minnesota '

*​


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## SifuPhil (Mar 8, 2014)

0020Mariah said:


> All religions have "holy books", and *all* *of* *them* claim same source: "*divine* *revelation*" by God himself to humanity.



There are actually quite a few religions that do not feature a God - Buddhism, indigenous folk religions of China, Taoism, Asatru ...


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## 0020Mariah (Mar 8, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> There are actually quite a few religions that do not feature a God - Buddhism, indigenous folk religions of China, Taoism, Asatru ...



I specifically mentioned "religions". Buddhism and Taoism (as well as other Oriental practices) are not considered religions; they are "phillosophies". I love Buddhism, it teaches a wonderful outlook on life in all manifestations.

Native americans myths and legends talk about The Great Spirit. Love those stories:

http://www.crystalinks.com/nativeamcreation.html


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## Ina (Mar 8, 2014)

Sea, I love the cowboy poem. Hope you're OK, you've been sort of quite lately.  (((Hug)))


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 8, 2014)

Ina said:


> Sea, I love the cowboy poem. Hope you're OK, you've been sort of quite lately.  (((Hug)))



Thanks Ina.  I don't want to hijack this thread on another topic, but I've been kind of busy with my dog, he's having some health issues that we're working on.  I'll probably post about him in the "All About Dogs" group, after we get results from his second blood test on Monday...more details in the dog group next week.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 8, 2014)

0020Mariah said:


> I specifically mentioned "religions". Buddhism and Taoism (as well as other Oriental practices) are not considered religions; they are "phillosophies". I love Buddhism, it teaches a wonderful outlook on life in all manifestations.



I'm sorry but they are indeed listed as religions. They are all known as "nontheistic religions" and there are actually quite a few more. They are perceived by Westerners as being philosophies because it's much easier than grasping the actual religious basis FOR those philosophies.

And that's not even getting into the polytheistic ones. 



> Native americans myths and legends talk about The Great Spirit. Love those stories:
> 
> http://www.crystalinks.com/nativeamcreation.html





> [FONT=times new roman,times]The  anthropologist Frederick Turner has pointed out that when white people remark  upon the fact that Indians perceive a spirit in every animal or rock, they are  simultaneously admitting their own loss of a deep spiritual relationship with  the earth. Native Americans are "part of the total living universe," wrote  Turner; "spiri*tual health is to be had only by accepting this condition and by  attempting to live in accordance with it." Turner contends that this life view  is healthier than European alternatives: "Ours is a shockingly dead view of  creation. We ourselves are die only things in the universe to which we grant an  authentic vitality, and because of this we are not fully alive." [/FONT]


source

The Native American view of a Sky King is _quite_ different than the European one ...


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## That Guy (Mar 8, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> The Native American view of a Sky King is _quite_ different than the European one ...


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## 0020Mariah (Mar 9, 2014)

*Ok Sifu*, I am using common sense to see *why* some define "religion" as the one's having an "official" structure recognizable in society, such in almost all Christian denominations; The Pope is even recognized as a "Head of State". Main thing here is that somehow all of them think about a "higher power" above men, does it matter the name they give to it ?  they are referring to a common "first" life source, a creator one. Darwing's theory had not proven to be right.

Anyway, it's ok if there are hundreds or thousands of "religions". All of them had tried to explain origin of man and life on Earth. To me, it is clear it was not that "crazed psychopath" of the Old Testament; if there is a Creator, those are impostors (Jehovah and Jaweh).

In respect of quoting Frederick Turner, he is just referring to what the New Age Movement have been saying all through the 2nd. half of the XX Century.


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## That Guy (Mar 9, 2014)




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## That Guy (Mar 9, 2014)




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