# Boehner's final act.. and a gift to Ryan



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2015)

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/10/...aing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3&pLid=-88552659




> The White House and congressional leaders reached a two-year budget deal overnight to lift mandatory spending caps on defense and domestic programs and raise the federal debt ceiling, in an attempt to avert yet another fiscal standoff
> .
> U.S. House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner presented details of the pact to his rank-and-file in a closed-door meeting early on Tuesday with the hope of advancing it to a floor vote by Wednesday and sending it to the Senate for passage.
> 
> ...



I can't help but thinking this was a gift to Ryan and one of his stipulations before taking the job.  The last thing he needs at the beginning of his speakership is a government shut down  orchestrated by the 40 of so crazies in the Freedom Caucus.

This will hogtie them for 2 years.. and thankfully so.   Nothing more to hold hostage over.. and just MAYBE...  Maybe they can get something done?


----------



## BobF (Oct 27, 2015)

Not good having the debt just keep getting bigger and bigger all the time.   The big problem is who is constantly spending with no money available, forcing more debts.   It is not the Republicans that keep complaining about the budget items that spend with no resources.

One item that had been proposed was to bring up every expense item and then vote to keep it or end it.   That would have forced all those that spend with no authority to lose their items if the vote went against them.   Problem was that just not enough votes could be assured so they decided for now to just try to move on.    The big budget battles will come soon if the Republicans can maintain or improve their hold over the congress.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2015)

NO One is "spending without authority" Bob...   The debt ceiling is to pay for bills already incurred..  It's not for new spending.  That is why we risk default if the debt ceiling is not raised and our credit rating downgraded.


----------



## BobF (Oct 27, 2015)

You are missing one point.    If there were not new debts created we could be paying down our debt each period of budget.    Not true at all as some keep on spending which requires now debt ceilings to be created.   We don't need a congress with no respect for the crisis they are creating.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2015)

BobF said:


> You are missing one point.    If there were not new debts created we could be paying down our debt each period of budget.    Not true at all as some keep on spending which requires now debt ceilings to be created.   We don't need a congress with no respect for the crisis they are creating.



Do you think defaulting on our debt is the answer?


----------



## BobF (Oct 27, 2015)

It may be the way it ends for the US if we don't soon get a Congress with enough smarts to start to correct the situation.    I have already mentioned Greece and then to included South America with Argentina and Venezuela.   The US is dancing along hoping to not get caught but we have already been notified, at least once, with interest rate changes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/02/countries-near-bankruptcy_n_5644368.html

*11 Countries Near Bankruptcy: 24/7 Wall St.*

                                                                                                                                               24/7 Wall St.                                                                                                                |                                    By                                                                                Alexander E.M. Hess and Alexander Kent                                                                              


                                                                                  Posted:              08/02/2014  2:50 pm EDT                           Updated:              08/04/2014 11:59 am EDT

After years of bitter court battles with creditors, Argentina has  defaulted on its debt, according to rating agency Standard & Poor’s.  After failing to come to an agreement with creditors from its previous  default in 2001, the country missed necessary bond payments on July 31,  triggering the default announcement. As of publication, other  organizations, most notably the rating agency Moody’s Investors Service  and the International Swaps and Derivatives Association, a derivatives  trade group, have yet to release public statements confirming the  default.


Argentina is not the only country that has struggled, or  even failed, to pay its debt in recent years. It is hardly the only  country with a severely impaired credit rating either. Alongside  Argentina, Moody’s currently lists 10 other countries with a rating of  Caa1 or worse. A Caa1 rating is several notches below Ba1, which still  carries substantial credit risk. Based on ratings from Moody’s Investors  Service, these are the 11 countries at risk of default.

(more)


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2015)

We are NOT Argentina... Nor will we ever be..  Do YOU think we should follow their example?


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 27, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I can't help but thinking this was a gift to Ryan and one of his stipulations before taking the job.  The last thing he needs at the beginning of his speakership is a government shut down  orchestrated by the 40 of so crazies in the Freedom Caucus.
> 
> This will hogtie them for 2 years.. and thankfully so.   Nothing more to hold hostage over.. and just MAYBE...  Maybe they can get something done?



Good move for all, maybe with this out of the way they can get some other important things done....but somehow I doubt it from all I've seen. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-boehner-budget-deal_562f89d2e4b06317990f5c1f?4mquxr




> The process angered many House Republicans, and Ryan himself told reporters that it "stinks" as he left the GOP caucus meeting Tuesday morning.Boehner said Ryan was right.
> 
> "I'm in full agreement. It stinks. This is not the way to run a railroad," Boehner said, although he went on to note that Ryan and the rest of Congress will  not have to fight over spending or the debt for nearly two years, clearing the way for other work to get done.
> 
> ...


----------



## BobF (Oct 27, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> We are NOT Argentina... Nor will we ever be..  Do YOU think we should follow their example?



You are correct, we are not Argentina or any of the other of the 12 near bankrupt countries yet.   But we are headed that way everyday as we let our debt get bigger.   That is why I mentioned the interest rate changes.   Somehow the money folks do decide if we have favorable or unfavorable interest rates depending on amount of debt and likely ability to be unable to handle the load.

The debt our Congress can take care of but the ultimate condition is from outside the US government.    I certainly don't understand it, but I do know it is out there.

Did you bother to read the article I linked?


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2015)

Just heard the Senator curly cue...  I mean Rand Paul is planning on filibustering the agreement.  A move that's really GOOD for Rand Paul... and really BAD for our country.   And predictably Senator Constipation... I mean Cruz is thinking of joining him...


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 27, 2015)

BobF said:


> You are correct, we are not Argentina or any of the other of the 12 near bankrupt countries yet.   But we are headed that way everyday as we let our debt get bigger.   That is why I mentioned the interest rate changes.   Somehow the money folks do decide if we have favorable or unfavorable interest rates depending on amount of debt and likely ability to be unable to handle the load.
> 
> The debt our Congress can take care of but the ultimate condition is from outside the US government.    I certainly don't understand it, but I do know it is out there.
> 
> Did you bother to read the article I linked?



Nor are we GREECE..

http://dollarsandsense.org/archives/2012/0112millersciacchitano.html


----------



## BobF (Oct 27, 2015)

Interesting article, but both of those authors are liberals and will defend the liberal ways for sure.   And contrary to liberal views are the conservative ideas so nothing is settled by reading that article at all.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 28, 2015)

Of course not BOB...   I would never have expected that of you..   The only articles worth reading are written by conservatives....  I get it..   lol!

That said.... Dollars and Sense is an economic and financial site... It's hardly a leftist fascist commie bastion..   You are a hoot...


----------



## Misty (Oct 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Of course not BOB...   I would never have expected that of you..   The only articles worth reading are written by conservatives....  I get it..   lol!
> 
> That said.... Dollars and Sense is an economic and financial site... It's hardly a leftist fascist commie bastion..   You are a hoot...



Dollars and Sense shows the economic ideas of those on the left, as per the website :

"Most importantly, we're still working to meet the need for left perspectives on current economic affairs. D&S has been able to survive and grow over the past 40 years because of the contributions and hard work of many people."


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 28, 2015)

Well..... that explains why it makes so much SENSE!


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 28, 2015)

Looks like nothing can be done to stop it..  

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/ran...o-bluster-against-latest-federal-budget-deal/


----------



## Misty (Oct 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Well..... that explains why it makes so much SENSE!



If the left perspective on economic issues make so much sense, QuickSilver, why are so many cities run by democrat politicians verging on bankruptcy.....Chicago for one.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 28, 2015)

Oh ouchie  Misty...            Actually.. Chicago is doing just fine..  It's politics as usual... and we love it..    Now if we could just get rid or our REPUBLICAN Governor.. Rouner, things would be better...  He's screwing up the whole State... particularly Chicago.


----------



## Misty (Oct 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Oh ouchie  Misty...            Actually.. Chicago is doing just fine..  It's politics as usual... and we love it..    Now if we could just get rid or our REPUBLICAN Governor.. Rouner, things would be better...  He's screwing up the whole State... particularly Chicago.



Oh calm down, QuickSilver...didn't mean to make you cry.  The democrats are in the majority, and because Chicago was doing so poorly, a Republican was elected to try and get Chicago economically sound again. There is a problem that wasn't recognized, the democrats are working strongly to stop anything Rauner wants to accomplish. They are doing the same things the Republicans are accused of doing.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 28, 2015)

Misty said:


> Oh calm down, QuickSilver...didn't mean to make you cry.  The democrats are in the majority, and because Chicago was doing so poorly, a Republican was elected to try and get Chicago economically sound again. There is a problem that wasn't recognized, the democrats are working strongly to stop anything Rauner wants to accomplish. They are doing the same things the Republicans are accused of doing.



Chicago is doing worse SINCE Rouner was elected.. Hopefully we can control him and get him out in 3 years..  before he totally destroys the State and the middle class..  Just like Walker did Wisconsin..   

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/meet-il-governor-bruce-ra_b_6652068.html

Last fall, Illinois GOP candidate Bruce Rauner spent $63.9 million -- $27.3 million of his own money -- to buy the right to occupy the Illinois Governor's mansion. 
      Now that he's in office his first moves have confirmed that he is the poster boy for the War on the Middle Class.  

     Rauner is a hybrid of the worst traits of Mitt Romney and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.  In fact, you could say he personally embodies the reason why -- even though our economy has grown 77% in the last 35 years -- the wages of ordinary Americans have been stagnant or actually declined.

     For those who are unfamiliar with Rauner, all you need to know is summed up in one brief story.  Early in the GOP primary, Rauner made it clear that he wanted to reduce Illinois' minimum wage -- and at one point even indicated he wanted it abolished entirely.  Yet last year Rauner himself made more than $25,000 per hour -- fifty-two million dollars per year.  That's right, he made more than an average minimum wage worker makes all year long in less than the first hour of the first day of the year. 

     Now, by the way, in the face of the overwhelming passage of a referendum calling for an increase in the state minimum wage, Rauner has grudgingly agreed to support an increase -- of twenty-five cents per hour per year over seven years. That's barely more than the rate of inflation. 

   Much like Romney, Rauner made his money as an investor and speculator.  After he bought many of those businesses, he bled them of cash.  
    His companies moved over 4,000 jobs abroad.  

     One of Rauner's companies, Trans Healthcare Inc., owned over 200 nursing homes.  The firm had judgments issued against it for over $2 billion for patient neglect.  Rather than fix the problems and pay the claims, Rauner's investment firm sold Trans Healthcare to a company that then declared bankruptcy and dodged paying the claims of the abused residents.

     Now that he is governor, Rauner has proposed draconian limits on the collective bargaining rights of unions representing state employees, cutting back on their pay, prohibiting workers from being able to negotiate over wages and benefits, and transferring all future state pension benefits into risky 401(k) plans.
      And he has declared war on middle class state employee salaries. 

     Rauner brazenly claims that state employees' average wage of $64,000 per year is simply too high.  This from a man who makes $64,000 in two and a half hours.
      To justify his claims, Rauner argues that many state employees make more than their counterparts in the private sector or surrounding states.  For instance, he claims that Illinois state highway workers make $49,000 per year, which he says is more than the $36,000 average paid to state highway workers in five neighboring states.

      That's right, a guy who last year made $25,000 an hour speculating and flying around on a corporate jet, is furious that someone who works 40 hours a week pouring concrete, laying hot asphalt and fixing potholes -- serious physical work -- makes as much all year as he does in two hours.

     Rauner's first major assault on the middle class was an executive order giving state workers who are covered by labor contracts the choice to benefit from those contracts without paying a "fair share" contribution to support the union that negotiates and administers them.

      Rauner -- and other anti-union ideologues -- claim that workers should not be "forced" to join unions against their will.  In fact no one is forced to join a union.  The provisions in labor agreements with state unions -- in many states -- require that after state workers have democratically chosen a bargaining agent, that employees who do not wish to join the union should pay a "fair share" contribution to support the portions of the union's operations that negotiate and administer the provisions of the labor contract from which they are benefiting. 

     Note that they are not required to contribute to any of the political activities of the union.

     This is the same principle we use at all levels of democratic government.   Once an election is held for mayor and the city council, you can't refuse to pay taxes to support the functions of the government from which you benefit.   City government produces what economists refer to a "public goods".   They engage in activities that benefit everyone, even if you don't "pay" for the products and services.  That's why we have taxes.   Otherwise there would be perverse incentive for "free riders" who would benefit but don't contribute.

      The same is true with unions.
      Rauner's actions have nothing to do with giving employees a "choice".  They have everything to do with reducing the resources that are available to unions -- which he is determined to destroy.

      Since unions -- and collective bargaining -- are the major weapons every day people have to raise their wages, his assault on unions is a direct attack on the middle class and its future in America. 

    It's not just that Rauner drips with hypocrisy.  His view of the world is emblematic of the massive difference in perspective between most ordinary Americans and the privileged .01%. 

     Remember that America is richer today than any other society in human history. Our per-capita GDP increased 77% over the last 35 years while average incomes of ordinary people flat-lined.  That happened because virtually all of the increases went into the pockets of the top 1% -- guys precisely like Rauner.  

     The rules of the economic game have been rigged to allow the Rauner crowd to siphon off virtually all of the increased productivity of ordinary working people.

     The result: corporate profits are at record highs, the stock market has posted record highs -- and the percentage of national income going to wages is at record lows. 
     Not only is that unfair and undemocratic -- it's bad economics.  If consumers -- the real job creators -- don't have enough money in their pockets to create demand for the new products and services that result from higher productivity, the economy will stagnate.

     Rauner, on the other hand, is an ardent devotee of discredited "trickle down economics."  And you have to admit, it's been pretty good for _him_.  After all, the man owns nine homes, including a New York penthouse and three ranches.

     And "trickle down" has been pretty good to other multi-millionaires that run in the Rauner crowd.


----------



## Misty (Oct 28, 2015)

Democrat economy measures are ruled by the principle of spending their way to prosperity, which never works. Illinois has lost many businesses due to their high corporate tax rates, so instead of making their economy flourish by losing tax money, their economy has fallen. Their recent corporate tax increase of 45% is causing more businesses to consider leaving. 

" Chicago's huge futures exchange owner CME Group has joined a growing list of companies threatening to leave Illinois as a result of the state's corporate tax increase earlier this year. Illinois pushed through the 45 percent corporate tax increase in January, trying to address one of the biggest budget shortfalls of any state in the U.S."

I don't understand how in one post you state that Chicago is doing fine, and in the next post, you state that Chicago is doing worse now.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 28, 2015)

Misty said:


> Democrat economy measures are ruled by the principle of spending their way to prosperity, which never works. Illinois has lost many businesses due to their high corporate tax rates, so instead of making their economy flourish by losing tax money, their economy has fallen. Their recent corporate tax increase of 45% is causing more businesses to consider leaving.
> 
> " Chicago's huge futures exchange owner CME Group has joined a growing list of companies threatening to leave Illinois as a result of the state's corporate tax increase earlier this year. Illinois pushed through the 45 percent corporate tax increase in January, trying to address one of the biggest budget shortfalls of any state in the U.S."
> 
> I don't understand how in one post you state that Chicago is doing fine, and in the next post, you state that Chicago is doing worse now.




Have you bothered to take a look at Kansas and Governor Brownback's "experiment" in complete Conservative policy?   

Conservative Policy has almost totally destroyed Kansas..  We are going to make sure Rauner doesn't do the same to Illinois

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...92d86c-1420-11e4-8936-26932bcfd6ed_story.html

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/brownbacks-experiment-gone-wrong


----------



## Misty (Oct 28, 2015)

I have to leave for awhile, but will read your articles after I get back. Complete democrat policies have been destroying Chicago and Detroit for quite some time. Will have to start posting Fox News articles to counteract the very liberal articles you have been posting.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 28, 2015)

Yeah Misty...   Just like Complete Republican policies have ruined Kansas and other blood red states..  In fact.. People in Kansas call their state Brownbackistan... 


Since you seem to think that Conservative government is the answer.. can you explain why the poorest states are Red States and have the highest poverty levels?  

By the way... the following information is from the US Census Bureau...   Is that too liberal of a source for you?  








And why Red states have the highest percentage of people paying no taxes








And which states rely the most on Federal Aid?


----------



## BobF (Oct 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yeah Misty...   Just like Complete Republican policies have ruined Kansas and other blood red states..  In fact.. People in Kansas call their state Brownbackistan...
> 
> 
> Since you seem to think that Conservative government is the answer.. can you explain why the poorest states are Red States and have the highest poverty levels?
> ...



The lowest number is ND at 20.5% so we can delete that from all the rest to see who is getting the most additional help.   That makes some of the bigger numbers more reasonable.   But why the differences for each state getting more assistance.   The highest I have seen is Mississippi at 45.3 - 20.5 = 24.8%.    Not unusual for Miss to be the number one poorest state in the US.   That is a title they have often held.   When I lived in Miss back in about 1955 it was one of the poorest states in the US.   Why are some of the other states doing so poorly?    Today, many states are still trying to climb out of the recession that Obama inherited and so far has not been able to end.   That is one reason.    The other reasons are that our industries could not sell many products if made at the rates too many folks insist on demanding, so the companies go to the lower wages countries for building.   Some of our auto makers now use Mexico to build our cars for US ownership.   Lots of electronics projects get done in China, and other low wages countries.    We will never end this outflow of work by demanding more wages and benefits and expect to sell items costing many times more if built here.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 28, 2015)

Bob.. you miss the point.   Misty claims that Democratic policies do not work and are to blame for Illinois problems..

I was just pointing out that the poorest states.. and those with the highest poverty level happen to be Republican lead States..  I contend that Conservative governing simply doesn't work..  If it did, why would 9 out of the top ten poorest states be RED?


----------



## Dudewho (Oct 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Bob.. you miss the point.   Misty claims that Democratic policies do not work and are to blame for Illinois problems..
> 
> I was just pointing out that the poorest states.. and those with the highest poverty level happen to be Republican lead States..  I contend that Conservative governing simply doesn't work..  If it did, why would 9 out of the top ten poorest states be RED?



Because Obamas failed economic policies affect you no matter where you live.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 28, 2015)

so how do you explain the solid BLUE states that are doing very well?


----------



## Misty (Oct 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Have you bothered to take a look at Kansas and Governor Brownback's "experiment" in complete Conservative policy?
> 
> Conservative Policy has almost totally destroyed Kansas..  We are going to make sure Rauner doesn't do the same to Illinois
> 
> ...



Read your articles, QuickSilver....Very Interesting. I had no knowledge of Gov Brownback, but in articles I have read, I learned that Gov Brownback was re-elected in 2014, and became only the second Republican in Kansas to win re-election in 50 years. Hard to understand if he has almost totally destroyed Kansas as you posted, he was re-elected. He has helped gain 60,000 private sector jobs since he became Gov, and it was noted in articles that Obama admin policies have suppressed the business climate nationwide, which doesn't improve the economy, as Dude posted too. In 2014 Standard and Poor lowered Kansas's credit score from AA+ to AA-, and Moody downgraded Kansas from AA1, it's second highest rating to Aa2, it's third highest. Chicago's credit rating was dropped by Moody to Junk with negative outlook. The only big city with a Lower Moody rating than Chicago's is Detroit, which exited bankruptcy in December. 
Gov Brownback said it would take awhile to get Kansas's economy to improve.


----------



## BobF (Oct 28, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> so how do you explain the solid BLUE states that are doing very well?



There are no solid blue states that are doing well.   The entire country is struggling to keep going.   Not all the unemployed are employed yet.   Look to Europe for examples of poor liberal governments where so many folks can only afford to live in rows of government housing.   Pretty small, nothing they can improve as they are just renters, the governments themselves are in deep troubles also with unemployed being much higher than the US.   Spain for one and of course bankrupt Greece and several others in the list that I posted a link to.   Nothing wrong with the idea of maybe a conservative government for once controlling the government and getting some stability put back into practice.   Remember Bill Clinton.   He had a Republican congress for part of his administration.   And during those days the national debt came down a big bunch.   Then we had Bush.   He had two wars going and the debt was rising some but not up to the level Clinton started with.   Then a Democrat congress took over and the debt started climbing rapidly and it is still going up for no known reasons.   From 7.5 trillion while Republicans were running the congress all the way up to now near 19 trillion with the  Democrat run congress.   This year now we have again an Republican congress and they are fighting mad about the debt and want to stop the growth now.    Can't do it yet as they are a couple votes short of being able to do it.

We do not have to live like so many folks have to live around this world.   Our nearest neighbors in Europe being very poor examples of good economies.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 28, 2015)




----------

