# What Experiences Have You had With Racism?



## Debby (May 12, 2015)

Shalimar and April were having an exchange on that Zimmerman thread and rather than hi-jacking it with a bit of a detour, I thought I would start this new thread.

From Shalimar:  'Debate should not abet racism. I retract my previous statement, and offer an apology.[/QUOTE] and I was reminded of my experiences with 'racism'.


I watched a video this morning that was kind of interesting on the subject of racism.  A youngish and successful white guy living in S. Africa, post-apartheid, finally realized that he was a racist because he had no black friends and he was terrified of black people.  So he moved into one of those horrid shanty towns that the black people were forced to live in, with the intention of surrounding himself with black neighbours for a month to begin to 'understand his culture'.  When his new neighbours realized that this 'whitey' (and he used the ethnic word from their dialect but darned if I could spell it so 'whitey' will have to do) was moving in, they were kind of shocked because it didn't make any sense, but they helped him carry boxes and so on and welcomed him into their community (and they didn't rob him of his stuff as his first 'racist' impulse was predicting).  Well to make a long story short, the one month turned into six and by then he had relaxed, made lots of friends, come to realize that under the skin, we are all the same, same hopes, dreams, loves, and fears, etc.  

While his video was more about the importance of being honest about yourself just generally speaking, I think his experience goes a long way towards helping us all realize that we each carry the seeds of 'non-acceptance' of others and may not even realize it but that we can change if we decide to.

Many years ago, I went to Richmond, Virginia to take a course on massage therapy for horses.  Coming from a community where I might see a few Asian people in my predominantly white schools (Vancouver, BC) , it was the bizarrest experience to get off the plane and realize that there were at least as many black people as there were whites.  It gave me a little better understanding of what it must be like for the one or two black people that I might pass by occasionally as I went shopping or whatever in my own town.  How immersed and isolated they must feel you know.  Maybe that was step one of the beginning of a new awareness in my mind, who knows eh?

Anyway, at about the same time, we were going to a small church that had a couple of black families in it and I have to say this for that mostly white church, they were all pretty warm and welcoming to them.  One family was born and bred Canadian I think and the other family were from Jamaica.  Because our cultures were more similar, my family got to be friends with the Canadian folks and we'd see them outside of church as well occasionally so it wasn't just a case of 'Sabbath friendships'.  

But I think even though Weeva and her kids were our friends, there was probably still an element of racism in us tucked away, hiding in the corners of our souls and for them, we'd made an exception you know?  Doesn't that sound awful?  When I say it I'm embarrassed even, but that's the way it was.  

In Canada, our 'cultural racism' seems often to be more focussed against the First Nations people.  All my life I've been hearing about treaty disputes between the government and 'Indians' and on some level felt as did many of the whites, that 'they were always standing there with their hand out' and 'always wanting more.....'.  But a couple years ago, I happened to read an article about the inequity in their school funding and I finally began to see for the first time, how it really is to be a First Nation person/parent in this country.  

Knowing how highly competitive the world is nowadays and how it seems you need to have credentials and certificates and diplomas just to get by too often, and then finding out that their children's schools get 2/3 the funding that my children's school got, I finally began to understand racism, myself, them, our culture and their problems with drugs and alcoholism!  How hard is it to be successful in life when you've got the education, and your family is supportive and your community isn't fighting the double edged sword of drug abuse and alcoholism but when you are living in the midst of pathetic education, poverty and drug and alcohol abuse,  it becomes almost insurmountable.  I think I had a light bulb moment, began to read more about it and finally really learning what was going on and as I was closing in on 58, I've finally begun to understand and make the mental changes required to overcome my own racist attitudes.

I hope I'm better.  I think that I've finally begun to see 'beneath the skin' and to realize that except for cultural histories and traditions, we're all pretty much the same.  

Have any of you gone through most of your lives with one philosophy on the subject, only to be caught up short to realize that you didn't really have a clue and needed to make changes yourself?


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## Debby (May 12, 2015)

Gosh, just realized that I started this thread with a book!  Sorry folks, making up for lost time as we've had company for the past week.


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## Ameriscot (May 12, 2015)

Love the story about that Afrikaner living in a shantytown.  I saw racism myself when I went to a wedding in South Africa.  Sitting at the outdoor restaurant at a lodge where we were staying, a white man and his family were having a meal.  The black waiter brought him an omelette and it didn't have all the fillings he'd asked for.  He started screaming at the waiter telling him how stupid he was and couldn't 'you people' get things right.  My husband and son in law nearly went over to have 'words' with this racist b**tard.  We noticed when clerks or waiters etc discovered that we couldn't speak Afrikaans that their whole attitude changed and they'd be very friendly to us (we weren't a racist Afrikaner).  

Growing up we only lived in white neighbourhoods and our schools were also all white.  So I never had the opportunity to have friends who weren't white until I grew up. 

When we went to live in Uganda for two years I found the prospect very scary as the culture, accents, etc would be so totally foreign to anything I knew.  I had never been a minority before.  My husband and I were the centre of attention everywhere we went.  Everyone stared as we walked down the street.  Many would say 'mzungu, how are you?'.  Kids loved us.  We felt like celebrities.  This made me very uncomfortable for maybe 6 months as I just don't like being the centre of attention.  But after that I enjoyed it.  It was very interesting to be able to talk to friends, fellow staff where my DH was a volunteer about being black and our differences.  Ugandans had heard about racism but had never experienced it themselves.


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## Debby (May 12, 2015)

You've had so many interesting experiences Ameriscot!  I guess that's how you get to be a well rounded person.  You've met so many people in their environment so you've gotten to see that they're just like you, except for culture (and their colour).  Like the white guy, living in the shanty town, that's what it takes....making friends with 'those' people.  (and that's entirely tongue-in-cheek folks, you know I don't mean it....right....you do know that right layful:?)

You know, I love the small life that I've carved out for myself in this world, but sometimes I wish I was more social and outgoing like you and others here!  You make it sound so attractive!   Well, I suppose I'll just have to live vicariously through others.


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## Warrigal (May 12, 2015)

I've seen it but never experienced it personally because I grew up in an almost entirely white British part of Australia and I was exactly that. However, underneath, Australia was very racist. We still had the White Australia policy and the Chinese and Jewish communities were discriminated against. Our indigenous people were not citizens and were not counted in the national census.

We've come a long way since then and racism is no longer embedded in our laws and social structures, but it still exists in the attitudes of some of us. Sydney is a very multicultural city and diversity is generally celebrated. The little children hardly know what racism is but teenage tribalism is still a problem and occasionally breaks out into brawling.


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## ndynt (May 12, 2015)

[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif][FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]In the town I grew up in, though basically a Sundown town[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif], [/FONT]if you entertained the Black domestic help could stay later.  But, [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]could not stay overnight.   [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif][FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]O[/FONT][FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]nly until the last trolley car[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif] [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]left at [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]midnight[/FONT][FONT=Garamond,sans-serif].   I can remember hearing one of the ladies[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif], when [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]I was helping serve tea at the Woman's Club, irately complaining.  Not [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]against the [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]injustice to [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]her maid...but, because "that mess had to remain until the maid came back in the morning" after[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif] she[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]had a late ending party. 
[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]Although[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif], as an Italian, I was well aware of ethnic [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]prejudice[/FONT]...[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]I did not understand the implications of it all until I was in my [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]late teens[/FONT][FONT=Garamond,sans-serif] and ventured out to the real world.
[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]Inter[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]estingly, pro[FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]bably because of [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]it's proximity to Harvard and MIT,[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Garamond,sans-serif]there are now many different races and ethnic groups living in that town.  [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]  [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]


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## Ameriscot (May 13, 2015)

Debby said:


> You've had so many interesting experiences Ameriscot!  I guess that's how you get to be a well rounded person.  You've met so many people in their environment so you've gotten to see that they're just like you, except for culture (and their colour).  Like the white guy, living in the shanty town, that's what it takes....making friends with 'those' people.  (and that's entirely tongue-in-cheek folks, you know I don't mean it....right....you do know that right layful:?)
> 
> You know, I love the small life that I've carved out for myself in this world, but sometimes I wish I was more social and outgoing like you and others here!  You make it sound so attractive!   Well, I suppose I'll just have to live vicariously through others.



Those experiences make you realize how spoiled we are as westerners.  And it makes you appreciate what you have.


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## Ralphy1 (May 14, 2015)

While in the service in the fifties I was appalled by the racism that was so blatant in Texas at the time.  On the base everybody was equal but off of the base the races went their separate ways and you crossed into the Black, Hispanic, or Anglo territory at your own peril if you were of the wrong race to be there...


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## QuickSilver (May 14, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> While in the service in the fifties I was appalled by the racism that was so blatant in Texas at the time.  On the base everybody was equal but off of the base the races went their separate ways and you crossed into the Black, Hispanic, or Anglo territory at your own peril if you were of the wrong race to be there...




Can I have my $1000 now, please?


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## Ralphy1 (May 14, 2015)

No, you have failed to prove that I am a racist in any regard, though I might be considered a bit of a troll for trying to get a discussion moving with a different perspective at times.  My liquor cabinet needs refreshing as well as my underwear drawer so my checkbook is closed...nthego:


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## ndynt (May 14, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> While in the service in the fifties I was appalled by the racism that was so blatant in Texas at the time.  On the base everybody was equal but off of the base the races went their separate ways and you crossed into the Black, Hispanic, or Anglo territory at your own peril if you were of the wrong race to be there...


This jolted my memory to the 60's.  Taking my three young boys from Boston to Charleston, SC.  Sat in the back seat...thinking it would keep us together and give us more room than a regular seat.  Two black women sat with us.  My boys fell asleep and each woman kindly placed the heads of two boys in their laps. I so appreciated their help.  But, when we got to the Mason/Dixon line one told me I had to go and sit in the front of the bus.  I told her that I did not want to...I liked it where I was.  She so sadly, in a pleading tone, asked me to please move.  If I did not it may become difficult for them.  So, I hugged and thanked each one, woke my boys up and went to the front of the bus.  My first experience with segregation....and the Jim Crow south. An awareness that influenced many of my views and actions throughout the rest of my life.


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## QuickSilver (May 14, 2015)

so sad


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## Happyflowerlady (May 19, 2015)

Here is a video that I was just watching, and it really shocked me. It starts out with a white man carrying a rifle and walking down the street with it. A police officer sees him and stops and questions him about why he is carrying the rifle. The whole thing seems to happen without much trouble and ends easily. 
The next scene shows a black man, carrying the same rifle, and dressed basically the same way as the white man was, and accompanied by his pregnant wife. 
Again, he is seen by a police officer; but the treatment is very different, and it appears that he was arrested, even though he had not committed a crime, and was totally cooperative with the police. 
Now, I do realize that innocent police officers have been recently targeted and killed; and I imagine that this played a part of the difference; but even considering that, the difference in the police behavior is pretty shocking. 

http://youtu.be/BKGZnB41_e4


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## AprilT (May 19, 2015)

No surprise, up till recently, they were still having seperate proms for blacks and whites at some schools in the south.  But, I can't say in this case, they wouldn't ever stop a white person under the same circumstances, though if it's legal for him to carry, that does seem a tad bit of an over reaction without even given the guy a chance to say anything before they drew on him knowing it's legal to carry and they hadn't any cause to detain.

What bothers me is these people have to be crazy testing these cops considering how trigger happy some are and what happened in the past to the one guy who was recently gunned down unjust.  This guy could have lost his life doing this stunt.  Not a way to prove a point.  I was holding my breath it was so scary watching that even though, I knew from the title, he wasn't going to end up headed for the morgue.


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## AprilT (May 19, 2015)

In case one wants to know what I'm refererint to with the proms.

this one in Georgia











Eventially though


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## Debby (May 28, 2015)

Just watched your videos April and it's appalling to see that sort of thing so recently although thankfully according to the following links, it seems to be changing!   What does the Bible say, 'and a little child shall lead them' and it looks like the kids in that community are going to have to take their 'backwards' parents by the hand and drag them into the 21st century.  

And ndynt, your story of your experience on the bus was so sad. I can't even imagine what it must be like to be live like that and with that kind of fear and/or frustration.   

We pat ourselves on the back for having 'big brains', i.e. we are superior to the animals and yet we can be so small minded!  Tragic indeed.  Here's to a more loving humanity folks!   Cheers!  :love_heartI was going to use the 'cheers' smiley face but it looked like it had already had too many and would toast anything! layful


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## AZ Jim (May 28, 2015)

Ironically, *one* of the components that perpetuate this is many of those parents are concerned that their white children may have to face the wrath of the racists should they be linked to blacks or other people of color.  This attitude furthers the cause of racists and racism.  It's this sense of protectionism that probably is predominant not to suggest pure hatred isn't a major factor.


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## DaveA (Dec 27, 2017)

Sadly it seems as though we now have a very vocal segment of our population yearning to go back to those "good times".  Hey  --they were good times for me, my family. wife, kids, and we just happened to be "lily white. We didn't live in the south and weren't aware of much of the unrest. Yes, you could read it in a newspaper, if that sort of thing interested you, but there was no TV so much of what went on never reached us.  Besides, much of the prejudice of the old Yankee Protestants (my kind of people ) was directed at European immigrants that were Catholic and other than Scotch-English.  Before WWII, the times for those recent immigrants wasn't that great either.

Those "good years" that folks keep talking about were a hell of a lot better if you were white.  I doubt if many black families, especially in the southern states would like to step back into the  40's and 50's.


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## Sunny (Dec 28, 2017)

Got this yesterday from a guy I know who is always pining for the "good old days."  You are supposed to guess how old Grandpa is.

The thing that jumped out at me was that this list wasn't pleasant nostalgia, it was a reminder of how much things have improved, for the most part! Not at all the message 
that the writer of this rose-colored stuff was trying to convey!

And we can throw the official, sanctioned racism of those "good old days" into the mix.












Stay  with this -- the answer is at the end. 





It  may blow you away. 

One  evening a grandson was talking to his grandfather about current events. 

The  grandson asked his grandfather what he thought about the shootings at schools,  the computer age, and just things in general. 
*
The  Grandfather replied, "Well, let me think a minute, I was born before: *
'television 
'penicillin 
'polio  shots 
'frozen  foods 
'Xerox 
'contact  lenses 
'Frisbees  and 
'the  pill 

*There  were no:*
'credit  cards 
'laser  beams or 
'ball-point  pens 

*Man  had not invented*: 
'pantyhose 
'air  conditioners 
'dishwashers 
'clothes  dryers 
'and  the clothes were hung out to dry in the fresh air and 
'space  travel was only in Flash Gordon books. 







Your  Grandmother and I got married first,... and then lived together.. 

Every  family had a father and a mother. Until I was 25, I called every woman older  than me, "mam". And after I turned 25, I still called policemen and every man  with a title, "Sir". 

We  were before gay-rights, computer-dating, dual careers, daycare centers, and  group therapy. 

Our  lives were governed by the Bible, good judgment, and common sense. We were  taught to know the difference between right and wrong and to stand up and take  responsibility for our actions. 

Serving  your country was a privilege; living in this country was a bigger privilege...  We thought fast food was eating half a biscuit while running to catch the school  bus. 

Having  a meaningful relationship meant getting along with your cousins. 

Draft  dodgers were those who closed front doors as the evening breeze  started.

Time-sharing  meant time the family spent together in the evenings and weekends-not purchasing  condominiums. 








We  never heard of FM radios, tape decks, CDs, electric typewriters, yogurt, or guys  wearing earrings. 

We  listened to Big Bands, Jack Benny, and the President's speeches on our radios.  And I don't ever remember any kid blowing his brains out listening to Tommy  Dorsey. 

If  you saw anything with 'Made in Japan ' on it, it was junk. 

The  term 'making out' referred to how you did on your school exam.... 

Pizza  Hut, McDonald's, and instant coffee were unheard of. 

We  had 5 &10-cent stores where you could actually buy things for 5 and 10  cents. Ice-cream cones, phone calls, rides on a streetcar, and a Pepsi were all  a nickel. And if you didn't want to splurge, you could spend your nickel on  enough stamps to mail 1 letter and 2 postcards. 

You  could buy a new Ford Coupe for $600, ... but who could afford one? Too bad,  because gas was 11 cents a gallon. 

*In my  day:*
'"grass"  was mowed, 
'"coke"  was a cold drink, 
'"pot"  was something your mother cooked in and 
'"rock  music" was your grandmother's lullaby. 
'"Aids"  were helpers in the Principal's office, 
'"chip"  meant a piece of wood,
'"hardware"  was found in a hardware store and 
'"software"  wasn't even a word. 

And  we were the last generation to actually believe that a lady needed a husband to  have a baby. 



How  old do you think I am? 

I bet  you have this old man in mind...you are in for a shock! 

Read  on to see -- pretty scary if you think about it and pretty sad at the same  time. 

*Are  you**ready  ?????* 






This  man would be 70years  old today.70  years ago was 1947.


GIVES  YOU SOMETHING TO THINKABOUT...  PASS THIS ONTO  THE OLD ONES, The younger generation would not understand.


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## Smiling Jane (Dec 28, 2017)

Sunny, the penicillin reference in that quote is wrong. It was discovered by accident in either 1928 or 1929 (there are web sites that say each of those years) by Scottish scientist Alexander Fleming.

Don't know why that one caught my eye, except that I knew it was around when I was a child.


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## Sunny (Dec 28, 2017)

Good catch, Jane.


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## fuzzybuddy (Dec 28, 2017)

I was going to comment on Racism, but I'm not sure when I got our first TV.


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## Sunny (Dec 28, 2017)

P.S.  I just looked up the history of television, and he was wrong about that too. The first TV set was demonstrated in 1927.  According to Wikipedia, it dates back to 1934.  Grandpa in this story would have been born in 1947.

And frozen foods started in 1930, and ball point pens were actually around in 1888!


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## DaveA (Dec 28, 2017)

Hi Sunny - - He might be OK, on a practical level, when mentioning TV's.  I was 14 in 1947 and we didn't own a TV until 1950 or 51.  Neither did our friends and relatives.  There was a family across the avenue from us who had a set and they used to invite  my grand-father , dad, and I on Friday nights to watch "The Friday Night Fights", a weekly boxing event.  We considered that quite a treat.

So, like many things over the years, many were invented but it was some time before they were available and affordable to the masses.


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## Sunny (Dec 28, 2017)

Yeah, me too, Dave. We got our first TV set in 1951, an auspicious occasion.  We also used to visit a neighbor to watch.

But whoever wrote that list said 1947 was "before" all those things.  He had quite a few of them wrong. The one that surprised me was the ball point pens in 1888.


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## Smiling Jane (Dec 28, 2017)

I figure Alaskan indigenous people had frozen food a long time before he said there was such a thing.


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## applecruncher (Dec 28, 2017)

Since the discussion has drifted to televisions, there was an interesting scene/episode on "Mad Men" (which was set in the early to late 1960s).  It's relevant to the topic of the thread - racism.  Essentially Pete Campbell was giving a presentation wherein he said Admiral TV had a significant 'n**go' customer base.  I even recall Pete asking the elevator operator what brand TV he liked, and was told "Admiral".  But clearly the Admiral execs didn't want to spend their advertising dollars in Ebony and Jet magazines.  They rejected Pete's idea.

Here it is:







Later Pete is called on the carpet and told Admiral doesn't want to be seen as a "colored" company:


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## Camper6 (Dec 28, 2017)

Smiling Jane said:


> I figure Alaskan indigenous people had frozen food a long time before he said there was such a thing.



Artificially?  I don't think freezers were invented then.  I remember ice trucks deliveries with huge blocks of ice even in the summer time.

But it came from the lakes in the winter, and was stored in an 'ice house' covered with sawdust and it lasted well into the fall months and even into the winter.

Huge piles of it.


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## AZ Jim (Dec 28, 2017)

Dad bought our first TV in 1950.  It was a Hoffman "EZY vision" TV,  13" we all gathered around to watch this miracle.


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## DaveA (Dec 28, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Artificially?  I don't think freezers were invented then.  I remember ice trucks deliveries with huge blocks of ice even in the summer time.
> 
> But it came from the lakes in the winter, and was stored in an 'ice house' covered with sawdust and it lasted well into the fall months and even into the winter.
> 
> Huge piles of it.



The "iceman" used to come to our house throughout the year.  He's have big blocks in the back of an open truck, usually draped over with canvas.  He also delivered kerosene for folks with heaters,  He was a good old guy and as he chipped his block to fit your individual icebox, he'd chip off a few extra slivers for we kids on those hot summer days.  The only thing was - -if  "your chip" landed in the wrong part of the truck bed, it might taste like kerosene.  haha


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## applecruncher (Dec 28, 2017)

So.....

Anyone see that Carol Burnett special last night?  It was great seeing the old clips from her show!


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## applecruncher (Dec 28, 2017)

Oh! Here's a good chocolate chip cookie recipe.

YUM!

https://www.bettycrocker.com/recipe...-cookies/77c14e03-d8b0-4844-846d-f19304f61c57


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## Smiling Jane (Dec 29, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Artificially?  I don't think freezers were invented then.  I remember ice trucks deliveries with huge blocks of ice even in the summer time.
> 
> But it came from the lakes in the winter, and was stored in an 'ice house' covered with sawdust and it lasted well into the fall months and even into the winter.
> 
> Huge piles of it.



I re-read Sunny's post. There's no mention of the food being "artificially" frozen. You're adding a qualifier that wasn't in the original quotation.


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