# Got a call from a Collection agency today



## Marie5656 (Jul 9, 2019)

*Trying to reach my husband, to collect on his medical bills.  I bit my tongue before saying "If you get ahold of him, let me know_.  I then told them he was dead.  She asked when?  I said April.  They asked if I was managing his estate.  I said yes, and I do not have the money to pay that much (almost $2000) in his estate account.  And I have other bills to pay, which according to what I was told by surrogate office, I need to pay before any medical bills.  They asked if I could settle for a reduced amount.  Still less than what I had on hand.  I told them so.  I thin said, I do not have the funds to pay the,.  Am I personally legally responsible to pay the debt.  She hesitated and said "No".  I said OK, now what?  So I just faxed them his death certificate and the most recent statement from his account.  Supposedly they will cancel the debt.  *


----------



## Trade (Jul 9, 2019)

If you have no liability yourself don't give the blood suckers a cent.


----------



## Marie5656 (Jul 9, 2019)

Trade said:


> If you have no liability yourself don't give the blood suckers a cent.


Well, this should be the end of it.  I will probably have to go through it all again when the nursing home tries to collect.  I have a family member I trust enough to ask about all this financial stuff. He said I am doing the right thing


----------



## Uptosnuff (Jul 9, 2019)

Good for you that you had the presence of mind to ask if you are legally responsible for the debt.  I'm not sure if I would have thought of that at the time.  Hang in there!


----------



## 911 (Jul 9, 2019)

You are not liable for your dead husband’s debts. Be forewarned that credit agencies will say whatever they think will get you to pay, but don’t fall for their lies. Unless, you are a co-signer on a loan or other similar type of instrument, you need not pay. 

I’m no lawyer, but I have experienced this with other family members.


----------



## Marie5656 (Jul 9, 2019)

911 said:


> You are not liable for your dead husband’s debts. Be forewarned that credit agencies will say whatever they think will get you to pay, but don’t fall for their lies. Unless, you are a co-signer on a loan or other similar type of instrument, you need not pay.
> 
> I’m no lawyer, but I have experienced this with other family members.



Which is why I was surprised that after I asked if I was LEGALLY responsible for the debt that she conceded and said no.  So I hope sending him proof of the estates lack of funds I will be set.


----------



## HazyDavey (Jul 9, 2019)

Marie5656 said:


> *  So I just faxed them his death certificate and the most recent statement from his account.  Supposedly they will cancel the debt.  *



I kind of went through the same thing after my Mom passed away. We'd get a $250.00 medical bill and I would call and tell them she passed away. They'd say ok, but some months later here comes the same bill again. Finally ended up emailing them a picture of her death certificate and their current bill. That seemed to do the trick.


----------



## fmdog44 (Jul 9, 2019)

First, make certain who is calling you is legitimate especially if they persist. No more phone calls from them rather, insist on emails or hard copy letters and save them for your records.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jul 9, 2019)

You did well Marie, I hope I would be as capable in handling these things as you are in the same situation.  Good point that fmdog just made too, I was thinking about scammers who prey on widows and widowers.


----------



## Marie5656 (Jul 9, 2019)

Oh, I know they were legit as I also got a letter from hospital saying they were sending it to collections, and the caller named the hospital plus the exact amounts I owed.  Plus I am familiar with the name of this agency. They are local


----------



## Trade (Jul 9, 2019)

Marie5656 said:


> Oh, I know they were legit as I also got a letter from hospital saying they were sending it to collections, and the caller named the hospital plus the exact amounts I owed.  Plus I am familiar with the name of this agency. They are local



How much of the total bill was paid by Medicare or other insurance? Most likely more than enough. They should have just written off the rest IMO.


----------



## Marie5656 (Jul 9, 2019)

I do not have a copy of the bill in front of me, but I know it was several thousand.  That being said, on another note I got a separate bill from the nursing home, for $11,000!!!  really?  I called and questioned that...was not planning to pay any amount, for reasons stated above. OOPS......they sent me an invoice for the entire amount, including what Medicare would pay.  Rick's share would have been about $2000.  I already told the finance person from nursing home that he did not have the assets to pay.
The hospital bill was for his initial stay in January, plus his return visit for the toe amputation and then two other visits for the breathing problems.


----------



## treeguy64 (Jul 9, 2019)

My ex mil died heavily in debt. We got bills from all over the place. We paid a few very small ones, but then decided that was that. We sent out DC's, and never heard from any of the creditors, again.


----------



## terry123 (Jul 9, 2019)

If you did not personally sign papers saying you would be responsible than you are not.  If they say you did sign ask for copies showing it.  Don't ask anybody if you are responsible just tell them you are not.  Send copy of death certificate and make a note of when you sent it.  When I was helping a dear friend make his final arrangements the funeral home advised us to get twice the number of death certificates we thought we would need as they were $5.00 each but getting one after the actual death was $45.00 each.  So I ordered 25 and only had 2 left after he passed and I finished up his estate.


----------



## mathjak107 (Jul 9, 2019)

In many  states the estate is responsible for medical debt after death ...that means jointly held assets can be used to pay the debt ...but it gets worse , Close to 30 states have what's known as "filial responsibility" statutes. Those require adult children to pay for a deceased parent's unpaid medical debts, *such* as those to hospitals or nursing homes, when the estate cannot.  They are rarely enforced except under certain circumstances like the now famous case in Pennsylvania.

Without checking your own state laws all these reply’s may be quite wrong ....


----------



## StarSong (Jul 9, 2019)

The remarks in this thread surprise me.  I thought that spouses or estates were responsible for bills incurred by the (now) deceased.  Obviously if there's no money, there's nothing for them to go after.  However, if there's insurance, a home, money in the bank, or other assets, I presumed they were attachable for medical and other bills.  

Am I incorrect?


----------



## mathjak107 (Jul 9, 2019)

Depends on the state and their laws. In a community property state these answers are likely wrong

In my state ny ,this comes up frequently so it is on most attorney sites ....here is one reply 

I am sorry that your husband has passed away.There are multiple aspects to your question. First, if you did not personally sign or co-sign any particular document guaranteeing that you would pay for your husband's individual debts, including physician, hospital and other medical bills and credit card bills, then in general you would most likely not lbe egally responsible or obligated personally to pay those bills. 
Second, as to the house, if it was owned in your husband's name only, the creditors of your husband may be able to place a lien against the value of the house by filing a formal written claim or judgment with the courts. They would have the right to payment first out of the value of the house and any value left over would pass, if there is no will, in part to you and in part to any children (or grand-children from pre-deceased children) of your husband. This is controlled by New York's laws of intestacy (a person who has no will) which are also called the statute of descent and distribution. If your husband had a valid will, that will would conrol such property transfers in accordance with what the will states..
You must be very careful and check who owns the house by examining the last recorded deed in the County Clerk's Office because it may actually be jointly owned with you--you do not know that it is not unless you read the very last deed and find who is named on it. If it is jontly owned with you , you may have rights superior to those of any creditors and may not have to pay your husband's creditors if you did not personally sign.
These are complicated areas and you should definitely consult with a local attorney who may be able to assist you. My answer is only intended to serve a general statement of the law on these very complex issues and are not intended to constitute individual legal advice to you . Speak to an attorney if at all possible.


----------



## Marie5656 (Jul 9, 2019)

*In NY state, they cannot collect from Life Insurance, or any money market type account that has a designated beneficiary (in thses cases, me).  Once the money is in the hands of the beneficiary, it is no longer an asset of the estate, and in fact never has been, according to a lawyer I spoke with.  
Also, when I went to the county to file for surrogacy to manage Ricks estate, I was given a list of which debts get paid, in which order. In this case 1 Administrative fees 2. Funeral expenses paid either directly to the funeral home, or to reimburse whomever paid.  3.Any medical bills.  I asked the bank about the medical bils, she said, if there is money, the pay, if not.."Oh well".   I will get reimbursed for the funeral expenses. I will not get all money back, but reimbursing me will pretty much eat up all of what is in his estate.

I was told that medical bills will get written off bo hospital or facility*


----------



## Butterfly (Jul 9, 2019)

StarSong said:


> The remarks in this thread surprise me.  I thought that spouses or estates were responsible for bills incurred by the (now) deceased.  Obviously if there's no money, there's nothing for them to go after.  However, if there's insurance, a home, money in the bank, or other assets, I presumed they were attachable for medical and other bills.
> 
> Am I incorrect?



Whether or not this is true always depends of the laws of the particular state and those state laws vary widely.  What is true for one state may or may not be true for another.


----------



## Camper6 (Jul 9, 2019)

It's not always the debt owner who is calling. In some cases the debt has been sold to a collection agency. The original has already written it off. Collection agencies will try anything to collect.


----------



## Marie5656 (Jul 9, 2019)

Bottom line is still that the person I spoke with said they would cancel the debt as soon as I showed proof of death and of no assets.


----------



## win231 (Jul 10, 2019)

I'm often amazed at how easily some people are intimidated.  If I don't owe a debt, I never pay it.  I'm not required to prove I don't owe the debt; THEY are required to prove I do owe it.

My dad was getting small $16.00 retirement checks from a few years he worked at Boeing.  After he died, I phoned Boeing & notified them.  I kept getting checks.  I called them several more times & they sent me a letter acknowledging my calls & they sent me another letter after I mailed a stack of checks back to them.  A few months later, I got another call from some dolt at Boeing, accusing me of cashing the checks & threatening legal action if I didn't repay them.  (Yeah...cashing checks that have a different name on them).  Some of the things I said to her can't be repeated here, but one of the questions I asked her was, "Ma'am, did your parents have any kids that lived?"

The threats debt collectors make are nothing more than hot wind; they're saying whatever they can to get commissions; they couldn't care less whether you owe the debt or not.


----------



## StarSong (Jul 10, 2019)

*Mathjak, Butterfly & Marie*, thank you for the information.  Very illuminating.  California is indeed a community property state, and it's been my home since my earliest adulthood.  I didn't realize that these were state rather than federal laws.  

You're right on about the wisdom of consulting a local attorney when confronted with matters like these.  When navigating treacherous waters and unseen reefs it's best to have an expert guide you, lest you wind up beached on the rocks.    

*Win*, having lost a sibling early in my life, and having known far too many families who likewise suffered the unspeakable pain of losing a child, I would never utter nor even think the unkind remark that you stated, no matter how annoying or frustrating the interaction. 

You may want to reconsider your choice of insults - or the need for them - when dealing with difficult situations.


----------



## Marie5656 (Jul 11, 2019)

*This thread is one of the reasons I like a forum like this.  We are able to share so much useful information with each other. I have learned a lot in the 3 years I have been coming.*


----------



## WhatInThe (Jul 11, 2019)

Until the estate is cleared and closed there could be 'an' issue. But you do NOT owe the money the estate does. In the end once closed his debt that is unpayable will be that. Make sure every dime is spent before closing the estate.


----------



## Marie5656 (Jul 11, 2019)

WhatInThe said:


> Until the estate is cleared and closed there could be 'an' issue. But you do NOT owe the money the estate does. In the end once closed his debt that is unpayable will be that. Make sure every dime is spent before closing the estate.


I was told I have to keep the account open for 15 months.  There is so little in the account, there will be no issue with spending it up.


----------



## Butterfly (Jul 11, 2019)

WhatInThe said:


> Until the estate is cleared and closed there could be 'an' issue. But you do NOT owe the money the estate does. In the end once closed his debt that is unpayable will be that. Make sure every dime is spent before closing the estate.



Again, depends on state law.  Also the majority of "estates" never go through probate at all, if things are set up with that in mind.  Assets simply pass by operation of law and no probate is required.  I've set up my assets in that way.  My mother and father did also.  No probate was required in their estates and none will be required after I die.  Unless you have a large and/or complicated estate an attorney can help you do this inexpensively and simply, without your having to give up control of your assets before your death.

Probate is an expensive and unnecessary hassle for most people.


----------



## mike4lorie (Jul 11, 2019)

I can not STAND the spineless bill collectors, takes a very special person to do this kind of work or ones who can't find a job anywhere... They drive me nuts... If they call and harass you again, hand the phone to a 2 or 3-year-old...


----------



## WhatInThe (Jul 11, 2019)

Butterfly said:


> Again, depends on state law.  Also the majority of "estates" never go through probate at all, if things are set up with that in mind.  Assets simply pass by operation of law and no probate is required.  I've set up my assets in that way.  My mother and father did also.  No probate was required in their estates and none will be required after I die.  Unless you have a large and/or complicated estate an attorney can help you do this inexpensively and simply, without your having to give up control of your assets before your death.
> 
> Probate is an expensive and unnecessary hassle for most people.



Here in this state I know the heir who didn't inherit money just personal stuff like clothes, books, some tools etc just told the bill collectors the deceased passed, had no money when he died and they were not going to pay his bills and bill collectors went away. Also I heard if there are heirs from different states regardless of will & beneficiaries that could turn an estate into a mess. She also found paperwork from a inactive business and tried to tell unless your name in on that business or in a will don't worry about preserving records for a business that hasn't been active for almost a decade.


----------



## StarSong (Jul 12, 2019)

I was executor for an estate where heirs were in three different states plus one in another country.  No hassle whatsoever.  This was a definite benefit of my mother having paid an attorney to draw up a will and trust.


----------



## Knight (Jul 13, 2019)

Constantly learning something new about why health care in America costs so much. 
Yesterday I got an invoice from a collection agency for $24.00. Naturally I checked to see if this was a legitimate company & not a scam. It is. I called to ask what the invoice was for. The rest just amazes me.

This was for the unpaid balance for a shoulder brace billed to Medicare back in early April of 2018. The bill total was $289.00. I didn't get a brace I got a cloth arm sling that can be bought online for $20.00.

Fraud was my 1st. thought so I called the insurance provider. What a surprise!!! Seems the cloth sling provider can charge whatever they want but the insurance carrier will pay only what they set as a payment. Anything above that set amount the patient is responsible for. I guess I should feel lucky they didn't charge $400.00. 

I doubt my wanting accountability for exorbitant pricing will be investigated & I will have to pay the collection agency. The only satisfaction I'll get is voicing a complaint.


----------



## Suzy623 (Oct 18, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> First, make certain who is calling you is legitimate especially if they persist. No more phone calls from them rather, insist on emails or hard copy letters and save them for your records.


Yes, if you have any question about the validity of a call like that then tell them to send you a bill and you'll call them back. There are a lot of people out there who will actually try to 'collect' money from family of someone who is recently deceased.  My sister recently died of a rare type of cancer and, even with the excellent insurance coverage she still has medical bills that I, as the executor, have to handle.  The first month I just threw the bills in a folder, didn't even open them.  The second month I'd get a bill I'd match it with the previous bill, call the medical group and let them know she had passed away. She had no money left, just her car and bank account which was below $1,000.


----------



## Lakeland living (Oct 19, 2019)

Collections people, I like when they call lol  Got a running bet with a friend on how fast we can get them yelling.
My buddy is in the lead at 4 minutes   lol


----------

