# NFL name change



## senior chef (Aug 21, 2022)

The Washington Redskins have officially changed their name to THE COMMANDERS.  
That's going to take some time to get used to that.  
I know that they were forced into it because Native Americans put pressure on Washington for many, many years. They felt that the name, Redskins, was racist.  However, I disagree.  I certainly never thought of Native Americans as "less than".


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## Harry Le Hermit (Aug 21, 2022)

It seems to be offensive and frankly, I have never met a real native American that had "red" skin, unless sunburnt. Of course, I may very well have never met a full blooded native American. There was a phase where many lily whites were scrounging through their ancestry, hoping for a connection. The importance of the connection... being for minority enterprise considerations.

A couple actually achieved that consideration. Which seemed to me as being proof positive that Erik the Red comingled with Native Americans back in the day. (They are blindingly white!)


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## Myquest55 (Aug 21, 2022)

A story told to me from a friend who is Native explains the "red skin" issue.  Seems that, as the government tried to eradicate the
"Indians" from the land, they offered bounty for the number of kills.  A hunter didn't have to bring in a body - just a skin.  Well, when you skin a person, it turns pretty bloody and red.  Thus, "red skin."  Yes, pretty offensive - even if it no longer holds that meaning for football fans.  

That said, I think "Commanders" is a STUPID name!  We are long term fans and that is just AWFUL!  The Snyders have been TERRIBLE owners.  I hope they sell the team!

Go PATS!


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## Alligatorob (Aug 21, 2022)

I never thought of it as racist or derogatory.  However I would defer to the Native Americans on this one, if they, or a lot of them anyway feel like its a derogatory word then I say change it.  It is a bit different that the term Indian, which may be a 500 year old mistake, but I don't think it ever was derogatory.

_Where did the word "redskin" come from? Many dictionaries and history books say the term came about in reference to the Beothuk tribe of what is now Newfoundland, Canada. The Beothuk were said to paint their bodies with red ochre, leading white settlers to refer to them as "red men."

According to Smithsonian historian Ives Goddard, early historical records indicate that "Redskin" was used as a self-identifier by Native Americans to differentiate between the two races. Goddard found that the first use of the word "redskin" came in 1769, in negotiations between the Piankashaws and Col. John Wilkins. Throughout the 1800s, the word was frequently used by Native Americans as they negotiated with the French and later the Americans. The phrase gained widespread usage among whites when James Fenimore Cooper used it in his 1823 novel The Pioneers. In the book, Cooper has a dying Indian character lament, "There will soon be no red-skin in the country."_

From:
Are You Ready For Some Controversy? The History Of 'Redskin'​


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## Don M. (Aug 21, 2022)

Since the George Floyd incident, "political correctness" has gone off the charts.


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## Grampa Don (Aug 21, 2022)

The word Redskin has probably been used mostly in cowboy movies and novels, and seldom in a favorable way.  It's usage has made it offensive to those it refers to.  It carries a negative connotation.


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## senior chef (Aug 22, 2022)

Grampa Don said:


> The word Redskin has probably been used mostly in cowboy movies and novels, and seldom in a favorable way.  It's usage has made it offensive to those it refers to.  It carries a negative connotation.


Hmm.  I had not thought about it's usage in movies. You are probably right.
I, however, would have proffered some name that implies American Indian. Since Chiefs, Braves and Indians are already in use, perhaps the name of a local tribe ?


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## Harry Le Hermit (Aug 22, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Since Chiefs, Braves and Indians are already in use, perhaps the name of a local tribe ?


Sorry Kemosabe, those Indians became Guardians.


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## Alligatorob (Aug 22, 2022)

senior chef said:


> perhaps the name of a local tribe ?


I like it... *Go Chickahominies!*


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## jujube (Aug 22, 2022)

The joke I heard:  the name "The Washington  Redskins" had negative connotations and was embarrassing, so they decided to change their name to "The Redskins".

Badda-boom.


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## SeniorBen (Aug 22, 2022)

senior chef said:


> *The Washington Redskins have officially changed their name to THE COMMANDERS. *
> That's going to take some time to get used to that.
> I know that they were forced into it because Native Americans put pressure on Washington for many, many years. They felt that the name, Redskins, was racist.  However, I disagree.  I certainly never thought of Native Americans as "less than".


Didn't they change their name way back in February?


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## Jace (Aug 22, 2022)

Sorry, _they'll always be the Redskins..._
Moving/coming to the D.C. area, went to the games..
Sang Starting Song.."*Hail, to the Redskins..." *

Sonny, Joe Theisman, The hogs.....

Those _were the days....._

Yes, owners are jerks..but aren't they ALL...
....back then it was Jack Kent Cook. 

If, anything, they should have left it...The Washington Team...as they were calling it till they came up with it's now ridiculous name!!


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## SeniorBen (Aug 22, 2022)

I thought the Potomacs (as in the Potomac River) would have been a good name, which is probably the name of a Native American tribe but probably wouldn't be construed as derogatory, although in this day and age, you never know.


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## Alligatorob (Aug 22, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> I thought the Potomacs (as in the Potomac River) would have been a good name, which is probably the name of a Native American tribe but probably wouldn't be construed as derogatory, although in this day and age, you never know.


Close the River was name for the Patawomecks.


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## Lewkat (Aug 22, 2022)

Took me a few days to figure out who those Guardians were that the Yanks were playing.  Oh well.

I've still got my Amazin's.


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## senior chef (Aug 22, 2022)

What next ? Will the Cleveland Brown's be forced to change their name ?


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## Paco Dennis (Aug 22, 2022)

senior chef said:


> The Washington Redskins have officially changed their name to THE COMMANDERS.
> That's going to take some time to get used to that.
> I know that they were forced into it because Native Americans put pressure on Washington for many, many years. They felt that the name, Redskins, was racist.  However, I disagree.  I certainly never thought of Native Americans as "less than".


I watched the highlights of their game and I knew it was Washington but every time they called "Commanders" I didn't know who they were taking about. I hadn't heard about the name change. I have been watching the Redskins play for 60 years, it was a bit shocking to feel that "regular" name disappear to the "word eaters".


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## JustBonee (Aug 22, 2022)

senior chef said:


> What next ? Will the Cleveland Brown's be forced to change their name ?



They can become the Cleveland Ohioans ...   like the Houston Texans  ...lol  ... equally stupid names!


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## Tempsontime65 (Aug 23, 2022)

senior chef said:


> The Washington Redskins have officially changed their name to THE COMMANDERS.
> That's going to take some time to get used to that.
> I know that they were forced into it because Native Americans put pressure on Washington for many, many years. They felt that the name, Redskins, was racist.  However, I disagree.  I certainly never thought of Native Americans as "less than".


What planet are you living on? early in American history money was paid for[Redskin]scalps.


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## senior chef (Aug 24, 2022)

Tempsontime65 said:


> What planet are you living on? early in American history money was paid for[Redskin]scalps.


Yes, scalping did take place throughout much of early American history , but I fail to see what scalping has to do with a simple name of Redskins ?   In my opinion, the name "Redskins" is not a negative term.  Native Americans were the VICTIMS of White and Hispanic conquerors. Anyone with the slightest education should know that. The name "Redskins" is no more a negative word than "Blacks" or "Whites".


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## Myquest55 (Aug 24, 2022)

It


senior chef said:


> The name "Redskins" is no more a negative word than "Blacks" or "Whites".


It is to them.  See my earlier post.


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## Alligatorob (Aug 24, 2022)

Myquest55 said:


> A story told to me from a friend who is Native explains the "red skin" issue. Seems that, as the government tried to eradicate the
> "Indians" from the land, they offered bounty for the number of kills. A hunter didn't have to bring in a body - just a skin. Well, when you skin a person, it turns pretty bloody and red. Thus, "red skin." Yes, pretty offensive - even if it no longer holds that meaning for football fans.


Wikipedia has a good discussion of the origins of the term "redskin" in referring to Native Americans.  They address this bloody skin or scalp theory and say there is no evidence to support it.  And they point out that there is evidence some Native Americans used the term in pre Columbian times, long before the bounties were offered.

In the end I think this should come down to how many or most Native Americans feel about it.  If they consider it offensive, I say don't use it.  If not, no big deal. 

Apparently the Washington name has changed, and I don't see it going back no matter what any of us thinks...


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## JaniceM (Aug 24, 2022)

Myquest55 said:


> It
> 
> It is to them.  See my earlier post.


Welll, I'm a 'them,' and I think the entire debate is flat-out stupid.


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## Paladin1950 (Aug 25, 2022)

I was in favor of the Washington Redskins on changing their nickname. It's always been flat out racist. But I was against the Cleveland Indians changing their team's name. I hate changes in baseball, since that has always been my favorite sport. Herb Score, Jim Thome, Rocky Colavito, Bob Lemon, all played for the Cleveland Indians, *not the Cleveland Guardians!*


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## Alligatorob (Aug 25, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Well, I'm a 'them,'


@JaniceM are you a Native American?  If so I'd be interested in hearing more from you on this topic, what do you prefer to be called, and what is offensive.  

Most of this talk is just non-Native Americans speculating.


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## SeniorBen (Aug 25, 2022)

The Broncos are now primarily owned by the Walton family (owners of Walmart). Condoleezza Rice is also part owner.

So I guess what I've been wondering (to myself) is, should we hold ownership of sports teams against the team when those owners cause a lot of harm to the world? I'm kind of thinking that we should.


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## JaniceM (Aug 25, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> @JaniceM are you a Native American?  If so I'd be interested in hearing more from you on this topic, what do you prefer to be called, and what is offensive.
> 
> Most of this talk is just non-Native Americans speculating.


Yes- a considerable amount of me is   

When asked, or when I fill out surveys or forms, I personally prefer the term multiracial.
As for the Native American issue, I'm ok with any term as long as it's not insulting.  In my opinion, the word redskin is slang, but not insulting.  A few years ago, one of my former classmates and a fellow writer both expressed the same viewpoint.  
With this thread, it also occurred to me:  nobody really agrees on where the term originated.


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## Packerjohn (Aug 25, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Since the George Floyd incident, "political correctness" has gone off the charts.


That's right!  The public doesn't know what they want?  One minute  they are screaming about defunding the police.  The next minute they are screaming to the media that someone found someone sleeping in their house, they phoned the police but the police just told them to wake the guy up and ask him to go home.  Another person came downstairs and found 2 guys robbing his home.  He phoned the police and they didn't want to investigate.  The public can't have it both ways.  

You can't get rid of the police department and then expect help when your home is being robbed.  It just doesn't make any common sense!


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## JaniceM (Aug 25, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Since the George Floyd incident, "political correctness" has gone off the charts.


I agree with your viewpoint to some degree, but taking away mascots has been going on for decades, at least in high schools.  
Mascots like Redskins were changed, and even mascots that had the word 'devils' in them.


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## senior chef (Aug 25, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I agree with your viewpoint to some degree, but taking away mascots has been going on for decades, at least in high schools.
> Mascots like Redskins were changed, and even mascots that had the word 'devils' in them.


"Correctness" drives me crazy.


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## C50 (Aug 26, 2022)

I live close to Cleveland and for years most of us call the Browns the Cleveland Clowns.  The Baker Mayfield/ Deshaun Watson fiasco is typical of the organization.  I think if the local fan base was given the option we would vote to officially rename them the Clowns.

Not NFL but our baseball team just changed from the Indians to the Guardians for political correctness.  Personally I think it's a stupid name but they didn't ask me.  I went to highschool with the children of the man who created the Chief Wahoo Indian logo for the team,  wonder how they feel about it.


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