# The Framework for the Deal with Iran



## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

Most are pleasantly surprised at the strength of the framework deal agreed to with Iran.  It appears to be a much stronger deal than was expected..  Almost on cue however, many of the usual suspects in the GOP and of course Netanyahu are setting their hair on fire over it.   Reasonable and intelligent people on both sides of the aisle are impressed and a bit more optimistic..    What do you think?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-iran-nuclear-deal-20150402-story.html

Briefly:

It reduces Iran’s enriched uranium to an amount and enrichment level lower than it would need for a nuclear weapon.

 It cuts the number of centrifuges Iran can operate from about 19,000 to 6,104, and stipulates that they cannot be advanced machines.

 It converts Iran’s underground facility at Fordow and its plutonium reactor at Arak to unthreatening uses. 

It opens Iran’s facilities – and, importantly, its entire “supply chain” for potential nuclear machinery -- to international inspection.

 And it maintains those limits for at least 10 years, many of them longer.


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## Warrigal (Apr 3, 2015)

Sounds like a pretty fair outcome in the circumstances.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 3, 2015)

It has a long way to go for finalization and Repubs are already attacking it along with Bibi, et al....


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## Jackie22 (Apr 3, 2015)

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Yes, the framework on this deal does look strong, it will be a victory for all that prefer diplomacy over war.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]I read that the inspections would be for 15 years and that the sanctions would not be lifted at signing but rather after inspections.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]This will be icing on the cake for this administration's long list of achievements..[/FONT]

I find it to be a really strange world that there are those that would condemn any agreement for peace.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

SOME in the GOP want war... likely the ones that have taken huge campaign donations from contractors..  it's payback time.   Netanyahu is only looking for the US to do his dirty work again.. like we did for him in Iraq.. (look how well that turned out).   If Israel wants to bomb Iran.. let them do it themselves..  I think we are getting a bit tired of Bibi playing the same old tune and watching the GOP dance to it.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> It has a long way to go for finalization and Repubs are already attacking it along with Bibi, et al....



Would anything be expected.   I would imagine they had their negative comments all written out long before they even knew what the deal would be.


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## Jackie22 (Apr 3, 2015)

President Obama to warn congress......

Obama: _In the coming days and weeks, my administration will engage Congress once again about how we can play -- how it can play a constructive oversight role. I'll begin that effort by speaking to the leaders of the House and the Senate today. 

In those conversations, I will underscore that the issues at stake here are bigger than politics. These are matters of war and peace. And they should be evaluated based on the facts, and what is ultimately best for the American people and for our national security. For, this is not simply a deal between my administration and Iran. This is a deal between Iran, the United States of America and the major powers in the world, including some of our closest allies._ 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ing-a-framework-for-a-nuclear-deal-with-iran/


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 3, 2015)

And good luck with that...


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## Josiah (Apr 3, 2015)

The 1st two paragraphs of the NYT's leading story. I like the hand metaphor.

WASHINGTON — On the day he took office, President Obama reached out to America’s enemies, offering in his first inaugural address to “extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist.” More than six years later, he has arrived at a moment of truth in testing that proposition with one of the nation’s most intransigent adversaries.


The framework nuclear agreement he reached with Iran on Thursday did not provide the definitive answer to whether Mr. Obama’s audacious gamble will pay off. The fist Iran has shaken at the so-called Great Satan since 1979 has not completely relaxed. But the fingers are loosening, and the agreement, while still incomplete, held out the prospect that it might yet become a handshake.


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Apr 3, 2015)

If you would listen to the Republican members of Congress... and the radio/television pundits... this has become Obama vs. them. This was a long sought negotiation hammered out by Iran, Russia, China, Germany, France, Britian, and the U.S. We... the U.S. State Department... were not the only one at the table with Iran. 

This is the key that I don't believe the anti-everything- Obama cult seems to understand. Congress can break this deal by voting to not relax sanctions. If they do, they will not only claim their victory over the POTUS but they will invoke the ire of the many others who participated in hammering out this plan. But, I don't know that the good of any others matter as long as they can throw sand in anything this POTUS might gain some credit for.


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

This hate for the Republicans is surely not necessary and definitly wrong.   Only some of the Republicans signed the letter to Iran.   What was the number who have signed, about 40 I think.   But some of the nasty talk on this forum makes it sound like all are against this deal.   On TV this morning it showed a Democrat who says he must first read it himself before he considers it a good item or not.   He was a New York person, well known, but I can not think of his name for sure.   Shumer, or something like that, I think.

It is not a final deal at all.   Just a joint draft and the final won't come till late June and then we see who all agrees and who may not agree.   It would be nice to have Iran respect and treat the US with honesty and fairness as it did prior to the last 50? years of hate and fighting from their quarters while the US has not attacked Iran directly.   Let us see, it was Democrat Jimmy Carter as President the last time any US military tried to correct the Iranian mess that Iran had created by themselves.  

So now we watch and see just how this whole thing shapes up and see what actually comes out of the June 30th announcement.   It would be nice if they could also get Iran to pull back its wild Hamas and other agitators that are messing with Palestinian and Jewish peace talks and efforts to complete what has been in process since way back when with Norway trying twice for peace agreements and the US under Clinton trying again.   So far all attempts have sounded good at the tables but then we find Hamas and other pressure groups from Iran show up and ruin the efforts.   Too bad for the last many years now, 30 years or more but I just don't have the data in front of me right now.

Certainly hope Iran can be driven to peace finally.   Long history of dishonesty and treachery that needs to be set aside by Iran.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

47 Bob....  47 Republican Senators signed that ill conceived and treasonous letter.  47 out of 54


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> 47 Bob....  47 Republican Senators signed that ill conceived and treasonous letter.  47 out of 54



Don't pick on Bob QS.  He's just a little short in information, but I don't think his computer has Google on it!!!


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

Sorry Jim, I try to use my memory.    Seems to be better than you lady buddy, she loves to say all when it is not all.  She just loves irrational hammering of those that don't think her very biased way.

Only comment was about how many were not happy with the Iranians and sent them such a note.   Not a thing about my much longer comments about how that agreement was only a draft and had many things yet to be worked out.   June 30 will be the day of success or regrets.   Those folks have yet to prove they can be trusted.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

BobF said:


> Sorry Jim, I try to use my memory.    Seems to be better than you lady buddy, she loves to say all when it is not all.  She just loves irrational hammering of those that don't think her very biased way.
> 
> Only comment was about how many were not happy with the Iranians and sent them such a note.   Not a thing about my much longer comments about how that agreement was only a draft and had many things yet to be worked out.   June 30 will be the day of success or regrets.   Those folks have yet to prove they can be trusted.




Awwwww shucks Bob... and here I thought you were sweet on me...  :love_heart:


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

Why should anyone be sweet on you.   You say all Republicans when the count is only 47 to how many in the US government and outside.   You did not specify just Senators as you act as if you know it was all Republicans.   Why should anyone be sweet for a single minded person such as some on this  forum.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

'Scuse me?    Here was what I wrote....  are you feeling ok hun....  Maybe your eyesight is a tad blurry...   




QuickSilver said:


> SOME in the GOP want war... likely the ones that have taken huge campaign donations from contractors..  it's payback time.   Netanyahu is only looking for the US to do his dirty work again.. like we did for him in Iraq.. (look how well that turned out).   If Israel wants to bomb Iran.. let them do it themselves..  I think we are getting a bit tired of Bibi playing the same old tune and watching the GOP dance to it.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

BobF said:


> Why should anyone be sweet on you.   You say all Republicans when the count is only 47 to how many in the US government and outside.   You did not specify just Senators as you act as if you know it was all Republicans.   Why should anyone be sweet for a single minded person such as some on this  forum.



Sweetie...  you better go lie down for awhile until your eyesight clears...


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Sweetie...  you better go lie down for awhile until your eyesight clears...



It's more than eye problems, I fear.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

Getting back to who did and did not sign the infamous Iran letter.  Of the republican senators (54) 47 signed the letter only 7 did not.  I would say almost all signed it, anyone can frame the story their way but no one can dispute the math.  I received on letter from Jeff Flake in response to my thank you for him being one of the seven.  He said the letter was ill advised and not helpful.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Getting back to who did and did not sign the infamous Iran letter.  Of the republican senators (54) 47 signed the letter only 7 did not.  I would say almost all signed it, anyone can frame the story their way but no one can dispute the math.  I received on letter from Jeff Flake in response to my thank you for him being one of the seven.  He said the letter was ill advised and not helpful.




Fixed it..


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

I fixed my typo, thanks QS..


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

I think what is most infuriating is how much they have jumped all over this deal..  They REALLY want war I'm afraid..  Diplomacy is not on their agenda.   So what happens then?  bomb Iran and they will go full speed into bomb making.  It makes no sense.


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## Debby (Apr 3, 2015)

It makes sense if you are a politician with lots of campaign donations coming from the military industrial complex and you know your own family members won't sign up to go and get killed in the war they start.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

Debby said:


> It makes sense if you are a politician with lots of campaign donations coming from the military industrial complex and you know your own family members won't sign up to go and get killed in the war they start.



That's it Debbie, you won't see them on any front line.  War mongers are cowards with big mouths.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> And good luck with that...



Ralphy, are you always so pessimistic?


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

I'm aware of the "Hate everything Obama" mantra... but this framework is NOT solely the work of the USA..  Other major countries are involved, U.S., UK, France, Russia and China, plus Germany AND the sanctions are UN sanctions imposed against Iran 7 years ago...  so how can the US congress unilaterally  impose MORE sanctions?   Maybe I'm not understanding it..


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

I guess all you SWEETIES in this forum really need to take a rest far more than I do.   Opinions from each of us are allowed on this forum, like it or not.   Don't like what I post then post your opinion without these personal attacks some of you really prefer to post.   They are hateful and not really wanted either by members or staff.   Occasional reminders from staff point that out.

Some Republicans and some Democrats really DO WANT Iran to fear an attack if they do not come to agreement about that nuclear weapons stuff.   They are a problem and have been since 1979 when the current bunch ran off their government and started their own.   Over the years of working to get Iran to become a civilized country, it seems that fear is all that has worked.   It is good to see that they finally did come to some semblance of caring about others and offering to agree to certain issues.   Time will tell if they really mean what they have just said and will the projected terms really hold by the end of June.

No reason for all this hate Jews talk either.   These Iranians have actually attacked the Jewish folks without any real reason.   Hamas is still attackiing the Jewish folks from their location in Palestine area.   That sort of hate also needs to be ended in addition to the ending of building nuclear weapons.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

Have you had warnings from staff about "personal attacks" Bob?  I haven't.  Of course what you construe as an attack might be the reason.  On some boards Bob, you would be hamburger, here everyone is much nicer.  You just don't like being the receiver of bad news.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

WHERE is the "hate Jews" talk?    I don't see any..

and I also have not received any warnings...  I don't personally attack anyone.. Just positions and opinions I disagree with.


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

Why have some of you folks changed my neutral posts into personal attacks as you claim.   I did not name names but some of you do use names in your responses.   That means it is a personal judgement or attack or whatever.   Some seem to think they can do anything without concern or correction.   I was asked was I ever corrected.   Not sure but I have seen corrections to someone, if not me, and it was about doing personal attacks.   If whomever you are and think personal attacks mean nothing, then there is little help for you.   Just hope our next election come soon so we can be rid of Obama and have a new Democrat or Republican President for a while.   Some one who is willing and able to work with our Congress of those days with no problems.   We really do not need any more of this socialist type of leadership where debt means nothing and is never considered.   So far we have gone from the 7.5 trillion of Bush's time to 18 trillion and still climbing today.   Not good news as that is nearly as much debt as we had after WWII and we have not had any big wars in these last few years.   Why the monster debt and never listening to the Congress while creating this monster debt.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

:crying:


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

Gosh, I finally overwhelmed someone as they sure don't understand facts.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

Facts!!? :lofl:


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

OK, yes facts can be confusing to some folks.   As i have said in previous posts, I have not been using names, so why respond to my posts as if I was naming someone directly.   A bit hard to understand so maybe saying facts did confuse someone a bit.   No reason for confusion at all.   Imaginary direction of my posts is your problem, a fact, as I did not name any names in my posts, a fact.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

BobF said:


> OK, yes facts can be confusing to some folks.   As i have said in previous posts, I have not been using names, so why respond to my posts as if I was naming someone directly.   A bit hard to understand so maybe saying facts did confuse someone a bit.   No reason for confusion at all.   Imaginary direction of my posts is your problem, a fact, as I did not name any names in my posts, a fact.



I didn't say it was directed at me.... What  I was saying is that what YOU call "facts" is truely hilarious..


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

Now that is a confession about your thinking being distorted.   You will forever determine that anything you post is absolute fact and anything others post is pure nonsense.   No further need for me to defend my posts as you will always consider them wrong.   Your strange way of thinking.   Nothing else can be attributed to your arrogance to others posts and thoughts.   Now that was a direct acknowledgement of where that post is intended to point.   Have a good night.


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

BobF said:


> Now that is a confession about your thinking being distorted.   You will forever determine that anything you post is absolute fact and anything others post is pure nonsense.   No further need for me to defend my posts as you will always consider them wrong.   Your strange way of thinking.   Nothing else can be attributed to your arrogance to others posts and thoughts.   Now that was a direct acknowledgement of where that post is intended to point.   Have a good night.



Bob you called me a "Jewhater" and a "sweetie".  I don't like your personal attacks one bit.


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

Now Jim, when did I ever call you those names?    They were in a more general nature and only reflected the trash another poster has been putting on this forum.

I doubt that I would ever call you sweetie?   But I did refer the jew hater to someone that is posting hateful comments about the Jewish folks and their nation.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

BobF said:


> Now Jim, when did I ever call you those names?    They were in a more general nature and only reflected the trash another poster has been putting on this forum.
> 
> I doubt that I would ever call you sweetie?   But I did refer the jew hater to someone that is posting hateful comments about the Jewish folks and their nation.



May I ask who is posting hateful comments about Jewish folks and their nation...   I really think you are hallucinating.   Have you skipped your meds?


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## Josiah (Apr 3, 2015)

Will wonders ever cease, Bill O'Rielly seems to be offering support to the Iran nuclear agreement.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

Josiah said:


> Will wonders ever cease, Bill O'Rielly seems to be offering support to the Iran nuclear agreement.



OMG..... He'll be offering a retraction and a formal apology to Bibi by Tomorrow afternoon..


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

Well, good for Bill O'Rielly.    I did not hear that comment.   No qualifications from Bill?   But of course we have till the end of June for the real deal that has been discussed.   Then, even if the deal and any changes have been approved we need some years to pass to see if Iran will really give up its nuclear studies and manufacturing capabilities.   I think it is good that somehow Iran and a lot of other countries have finally been able to start talking together again.   This conversation shut down was started in 1975 when Iran took over the US embassy and held the staff for a long time.   Not sure how it all came about but Carter did try to get the folks back peacefully after he failed in his military effort to find and free them.   So now, approximately 40 years later, we are attempting to speak together again.   Time will tell if this will last for long.


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> OMG..... He'll be offering a retraction and a formal apology to Bibi by Tomorrow afternoon..



Why so?   Stopping the nuclear war efforts of Iran is a big help for Israel.


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Apr 3, 2015)

BobF said:


> Just hope our next election come soon so we can be rid of Obama and have a new Democrat or Republican President for a while. And, if one Party swears that if the next Administration is successful, they have failed... If the next POTUS has to deal with an obstructionist Congress that does everything in their power not to compromise... what will be gained?  Some one who is willing and able to work with our Congress of those days with no problems. We really do not need any more of this socialist type of leadership where debt means nothing and is never considered. So far we have gone from the 7.5 trillion of Bush's time to 18 trillion and still climbing today. Not good news as that is nearly as much debt as we had after WWII and we have not had any big wars in these last few years. No big wars in the last few years???  How many billions of dollars have the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan cost the American taxpayer?  How many lives of our sons and daughters and mothers and fathers have been lost in these wars?  And, when did these wars start?  WMD's????  Who sold us that bag of bs??  Why the monster debt and never listening to the Congress while creating this monster debt.  If he'd "listened to Congress", millions would still be without health insurance.  If he's "listened to Congress", we would be at war with Iran.  If he'd "listened to Congress", we'd be spending billions more tax dollars building a fence on the Texas/Mexican border that would no nothing to slow immigration.



This President hasn't been able to have a bowel movement without right wing extremisits touting it should have been black instead of brown.  Everything... EVERYTHING this POTUS has tried to do to better the economy has been blocked by the Republicans in Congress.  Even with that, we have had a slow... but consistent... recovery from one of the worst recessions ever handed a new POTUS.  

Weaker men would have given up trying to negotiate with Iran to keep them from ever having a nuclear weapon when 47 traitorous Senators sent a letter that compromised his authority to negotiate.  Weaker men would have given up seeking a plan to assist millions of Americans gain access to health insurance when the opposing Party did everything they could to block it.  Weaker men would have thrown up their hands in disgust when our elected officials were far more concerned with proving a POTUS was born in Kenya than concerned about the needs of the less fortunate of our society.

I still feel it sad that when we have Americans overseas in harm's way, putting their lives on the line to preserve the liberties and freedoms we are blessed to enjoy, there are those who continue to spend their time with hate-rhetoric against our President.  That does nothing to pull us together as Americans.  But, then, it is more important to repeat the talking points of Faux Noise and Hannity and Beck and Limbaugh than to make any attempt to stand up and show pride in this great Country.  I may not agree with a President of the United States.  If that's the case, I'll take my dissatisfaction to the voting booth.  I sure won't shout my disdain from the rooftops.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

BobF said:


> Why so?   Stopping the nuclear war efforts of Iran is a big help for Israel.



Not according to Netanyahu.... according to him the only way is WAR, and O'Rielly is supporting diplomacy....  Mark my words... He'll be walking that back..


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

Grumpy Ol' Man said:


> This President hasn't been able to have a bowel movement without right wing extremisits touting it should have been black instead of brown.  Everything... EVERYTHING this POTUS has tried to do to better the economy has been blocked by the Republicans in Congress.  Even with that, we have had a slow... but consistent... recovery from one of the worst recessions ever handed a new POTUS.
> 
> Weaker men would have given up trying to negotiate with Iran to keep them from ever having a nuclear weapon when 47 traitorous Senators sent a letter that compromised his authority to negotiate.  Weaker men would have given up seeking a plan to assist millions of Americans gain access to health insurance when the opposing Party did everything they could to block it.  Weaker men would have thrown up their hands in disgust when our elected officials were far more concerned with proving a POTUS was born in Kenya than concerned about the needs of the less fortunate of our society.
> 
> I still feel it sad that when we have Americans overseas in harm's way, putting their lives on the line to preserve the liberties and freedoms we are blessed to enjoy, there are those who continue to spend their time with hate-rhetoric against our President.  That does nothing to pull us together as Americans.  But, then, it is more important to repeat the talking points of Faux Noise and Hannity and Beck and Limbaugh than to make any attempt to stand up and show pride in this great Country.  I may not agree with a President of the United States.  If that's the case, I'll take my dissatisfaction to the voting booth.  I sure won't shout my disdain from the rooftops.




:woohoo1::clap:


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## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

GOM, You nailed it man!!!!! k:


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## Josiah (Apr 3, 2015)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...wr5EafFz1ztFW3AsA&sig2=-DKqnjf7rQufhsCqWO34CA


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

This post is definitly one persons view of how thing might have been with someone listening to the Congress.   I don't agree at all and where have the billions wasted in the last few years gone.   Certainly not to the health program as that is costing me at least as much as prior to Obama care and I don't see where I am getting any more for less as it is set up.   If you look at the spending charts you will see some expense for Bush and his wars but only after the far far left took over has the debt grown so far out of site and still rising at great rates.   My opinion would be that we acted as we did after WWII and kept our armies, the UN armies, in place to help hold down the wild ones for a few years so knew folks could learn about being kind and considerate and willing to be peaceful.    Not the wild and inconsiderate bunch we have now.   That procedure worked in Europe and Japan, no reason it could not have been tried in the Arab states.

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/...-to-gdp.html?federal-debt-to-gdp-politics.gif







Look at the last two years of Bush's time and see how the debt started to rise for the clouds.   That was the last two years of Bush when Reid and Pelosi took over the Congress and just ignored good spending and common sense thinking.   For Bush, he was still in the 7+ trillion range with 2 wars happening.   When the far far left Democrats took over the debt just went out of control, even before Obama took over and continued the debt problem for the US.   Now for many many years this debt will be hanging over those citizens of the future till it is brought down so the people can have lower taxes and more freedoms to spend for their very own personal wishes.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

Of course saving the Automotive Industry and Bailing out the Banks so the entire economy didn't go up in flames had NOTHING to do with it..??   Did it Bob??  and whos fault were those..???   AND how about two Wars.. Unfunded... and an enourmous tax cut for the wealthy as well as a prescription drug plan all put on the National Credit card..that had to be paid?? Who did that? Any spending by Obama was solely to SAVE our country from the completely inept presidency and administration that preceded him..

You really need to get off the OBAMA ran up the debt silliness... because it was BUSH that made it necessary.


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

Grumpy Ol' Man said:


> This President hasn't been able to have a bowel movement without right wing extremisits touting it should have been black instead of brown.  Everything... EVERYTHING this POTUS has tried to do to better the economy has been blocked by the Republicans in Congress.  Even with that, we have had a slow... but consistent... recovery from one of the worst recessions ever handed a new POTUS.
> 
> Weaker men would have given up trying to negotiate with Iran to keep them from ever having a nuclear weapon when 47 traitorous Senators sent a letter that compromised his authority to negotiate.  Weaker men would have given up seeking a plan to assist millions of Americans gain access to health insurance when the opposing Party did everything they could to block it.  Weaker men would have thrown up their hands in disgust when our elected officials were far more concerned with proving a POTUS was born in Kenya than concerned about the needs of the less fortunate of our society.
> 
> I still feel it sad that when we have Americans overseas in harm's way, putting their lives on the line to preserve the liberties and freedoms we are blessed to enjoy, there are those who continue to spend their time with hate-rhetoric against our President.  That does nothing to pull us together as Americans.  But, then, it is more important to repeat the talking points of Faux Noise and Hannity and Beck and Limbaugh than to make any attempt to stand up and show pride in this great Country.  I may not agree with a President of the United States.  If that's the case, I'll take my dissatisfaction to the voting booth.  I sure won't shout my disdain from the rooftops.



Everything being complained about here is all because of the USA's freedom of speech idea.   It is good for all to speak their ideas publicly and not worry about being jailed or fined.   That is why some on this forum speak loudly of their favorite leader and others can speak just as loudly about changes needed.   Think good for your self as you speak out and also allow others to have the same freedom speaking as they feel.

Have a good day.


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## Josiah (Apr 3, 2015)

Hey Bob, this thread is about the proposed treaty with Iran. If you want to talk about the debt why don't you start a new thread?


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Of course saving the Automotive Industry and Bailing out the Banks so the entire economy didn't go up in flames had NOTHING to do with it..??   Did it Bob??  and whos fault were those..???   AND how about two Wars.. Unfunded... and an enourmous tax cut for the wealthy as well as a prescription drug plan all put on the National Credit card..that had to be paid?? Who did that? Any spending by Obama was solely to SAVE our country from the completely inept presidency and administration that preceded him..
> 
> You really need to get off the OBAMA ran up the debt silliness... because it was BUSH that made it necessary.



There you go, using my name to place blame for bad posting.   Never did Bush create all the debt that started when the far far left Democrats took over our government in Bush's last two years and kept going till today even.   Some unreal brass you have for blaming the Republicans for what the far far left Democrats have done to the US and our budgets.   No more saying you never point to posters you are trying to shame, you do it all the time.   But the real shame is on you for your cowardly ways of posting.   No truth in what you post as in this post you have demonstrated.   Why not allow those that do not agree with what is going on say what is on their mind without small minded attacks.   Why not say what you think is correct without doing such using others as your targets.   Speak honestly and openly and all is well.

I use far far left when speaking of your type of posting as defining you to be far left of most of the Democrats of the world.   We have a well known Democrat that has publicly said he wants to see more about Iran meetings and discussions prior to any judgments.   I named him yesterday I think.   Something more of us need to do, and I think even Obama has indicated that there is much to do yet to ensure that Iran will do as they say.   You could slow down a bit an allow others to speak their feelings with out being hammered for not being far far left folks.


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

Josiah said:


> Hey Bob, this thread is about the proposed treaty with Iran. If you want to talk about the debt why don't you start a new thread?



I would agree but first you need to slow down a rather nasty person that is changing the topic all the time and telling lies.   My chart on debt was in response to one of those lies.


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## BobF (Apr 3, 2015)

And for tonight.    Have a good night to all.


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Most are pleasantly surprised at the strength of the framework deal agreed to with Iran.  It appears to be a much stronger deal than was expected.



This article shows that some in Israel are pleased also. http://www.buzzfeed.com/sheerafrenk...-deal-israeli-newspapers-conclude#.hyBN4B7QEO




> Despite staunch opposition by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his cabinet, wider public opinion in Israel seems ready to give the Iran deal a chance
> 
> But in Israel, the only major newspaper to carry a front-page story against the agreement was the Sheldon Adelson-owned _Israel Hayom, a paper strongly aligned with Netanyahu. Israel Hayom’s headline for that story — “Agreement With Iran—Historic Mistake” — stood in stark contrast to the tone of others on the newsstand.
> _
> ...


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## QuickSilver (Apr 4, 2015)

BobF said:


> I would agree but first you need to slow down a rather nasty person that is changing the topic all the time and telling lies.   My chart on debt was in response to one of those lies.




I LOVE when someone proves my point, and without even realizing it..  lol!


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## Josiah (Apr 4, 2015)

Just finished reading an interesting NYT story about the negotiation process that just took place in Switzerland,

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/04/w...lt-on-coffee-all-nighters-and-compromise.html

 President Obama's hands-on approach re: the inspection process; his academic's interest in the bewildering moving parts of the political process in Iran, to cite just two examples, reveal the depth and breadth of his intellectual reach. Unfortunately for those of us who live in the 21st Century, these virtues have no resonance with this Congress. Mr. Obama's questing intellect stands in the boldest relief to that of his predecessor. President Obama is too smart by half for his political enemies. The GOP-Tea Party-driven 114th Congress has made itself impotent by its own ignorance. They consider Iran through the lens of Israel alone, whose regional interests there do not precisely track with ours. President Obama knows that he can't get everything he wants out of this deal. Nor should he. Congress, egged on by Mr. Netanyahu to take an all-or-nothing line, stands to brand itself as a potential as rogue's gallery of war criminals if they scuttle this hard-earned handshake agreement simply to please the prime minister of another country and to spite a sitting president in the bargain.


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## BobF (Apr 4, 2015)

The Tea Party, very conservative, part of our current Congress do not own or run the entire Congress.   They are but a unified part of the current Congress.

Obama has definitely led us into discussions with Iran and hopefully his discussions will lead Iran into becoming a part of the world community.   Time will tell.   We need at least till the end of June to see if even the basics will be followed by Iran.   If so, then we look forward.


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## BobF (Apr 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I LOVE when someone proves my point, and without even realizing it..  lol!



And just what was your point and then we will all know what you are really thinking.


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## WhatInThe (Apr 4, 2015)

*Don't pop the champagne yet. Article*

Don't pop the champagne yet says article.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-if-this-iran-nuke-deal-really-gets-done.html

The article even touts some of the 'surprising' progress. It's reiterated that this is a 'frame work' deal but not the deal. 

But there are several sticking points or concerns with the frame work deal or a full deal.

1)Can Iran be trusted which is the biggest concern. Negotiators made a deal, not Tehran.

2) What will be the effects of all the smaller conflicts or proxy wars in the region on Iran especially in ones which they are involved.

3) Inspection implementation.

4) There is a facility embedded in a mountain basically making it bomb proof. It's unlikely Iran would agree to shut down that facility(Fordow).

5) No clause to prevent research to be used in other military weapons programs.

 I still remember the Iran hostage crisis in the late 70s. I think Iran recently tried to make a hostage taker their ambassador to the UN. Even in World War II countries/embassies were given notice & time to evacuate. It was/is that blatant disregard for international protocol that takes away credibility from any current Iranian leader that will be in charge of enforcing and adhering to a treaty.


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