# Safe & Effective: A Second Opinion



## amwassil (Oct 4, 2022)

> Safe and Effective: A Second Opinion shines a light on Covid-19 vaccine injuries and bereavements, but also takes an encompassing look at the systemic failings that appear to have enabled them. We look at leading analysis of pharmaceutical trials, the role of the MHRA in regulating these products, the role of the SAGE behavioural scientists in influencing policy and the role of the media and Big Tech companies in supressing free and open debate on the subject


https://www.oraclefilms.com/safeandeffective


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## JustBonee (Oct 4, 2022)

Here it is October 2022,  and new revelations about the vaccine,   and the  boosters are slowly coming  out.   There will probably be more. 

Scary stuff,   and it could explain what our country is facing now .. 
We get this:  
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/c...ersonality-in-young-adults-study-9249771.html


Just the young with personality changes from the vaccine ??  ... I don't think so!  
I've wondered for a while about some older people who act/speak differently now.  

Vaccines in the past didn't do this kind of damage to people.


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## RadishRose (Oct 4, 2022)

Bonnie said:


> Here it is October 2022,  and new revelations about the vaccine,   and the  boosters are slowly coming  out.   There will probably be more.
> 
> Scary stuff,   and it could explain what our country is facing now ..
> We get this:
> ...


Only 7,109 people were in the study. I'm not putting any stock in this.


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## SeniorBen (Oct 4, 2022)

Bonnie said:


> Here it is October 2022,  and new revelations about the vaccine,   and the  boosters are slowly coming  out.   There will probably be more.
> 
> Scary stuff,   and it could explain what our country is facing now ..
> We get this:
> ...


The Florida State University College of Medicine study doesn't blame the vaccine for the personality changes in young people; it blames the pandemic. In fact, the article doesn't even mention the vaccine.


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## amwassil (Oct 4, 2022)

The initial video above is based on UK government data and the sources are identified and can be verified.

Here's a report based on US CDC data. It took 2 lawsuits and a year and a half to get CDC to release this data. Wonder why so?

https://www.icandecide.org/v-safe/

*PS*: @RadishRose The V-Safe data is based on 10 million individual records/participants.


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## ElCastor (Oct 4, 2022)

Sheesh! Just take the vaccine AND the boosters, and pay no attention to all the nonsense the anti-needle freaks are spreading. More than a million Americans have died from Covid, and NOT the vaccine. People our age are in the greatest danger.


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## SeniorBen (Oct 4, 2022)

The Informed Consent Action Network (ICAN) is one of the main anti-vaccination groups in the United States. Founded in 2016 by Del Bigtree, it spreads misinformation about the risks of vaccines and contributes to vaccine hesitancy,[1][2][3] which has been identified by the World Health Organization as one of the top ten global health threats of 2019.[4][5] Arguments against vaccination are contradicted by overwhelming scientific consensus about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines.[6][7][8][9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informed_Consent_Action_Network


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## amwassil (Oct 4, 2022)

Look at the data. The UK data is from the NHS and the US from CDC. Neither one of those institutions is 'anti-vax'. Neither of them is 'anti-needle freaks'. All-Cause mortality has increased dramatically directly in line with injection rates in multiple countries. Those deaths will be investigated to determine if there is a cause/effect relation with injection rates. It is already known that the more injections you get the greater your probability of being infected, getting more seriously ill, hospitalized and dying than if you had not been injected at all. If you subjected yourself to 2-3 initial injections and a couple more boosters, I can understand you don't want to hear about adverse effects or your personal risk from doing so. And I sincerely hope you remain well and safe. But pooh poohing the data is useless.


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## chic (Oct 5, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Sheesh! Just take the vaccine AND the boosters, and pay no attention to all the nonsense the anti-needle freaks are spreading. More than a million Americans have died from Covid, and NOT the vaccine. People our age are in the greatest danger.


If we cannot claim sovereignty over our own bodies, we have no freedom left.


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## SeniorBen (Oct 5, 2022)

amwassil said:


> Look at the data. The UK data is from the NHS and the US from CDC. Neither one of those institutions is 'anti-vax'. Neither of them is 'anti-needle freaks'. All-Cause mortality has increased dramatically directly in line with injection rates in multiple countries. Those deaths will be investigated to determine if there is a cause/effect relation with injection rates. It is already known that the more injections you get the greater your probability of being infected, getting more seriously ill, hospitalized and dying than if you had not been injected at all. If you subjected yourself to 2-3 initial injections and a couple more boosters, I can understand you don't want to hear about adverse effects or your personal risk from doing so. And I sincerely hope you remain well and safe. But pooh poohing the data is useless.


Sure, could you provide a link to the data? Not ICAN's interpretation of the data but the data itself.


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## amwassil (Oct 5, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Sure, could you provide a link to the data? Not ICAN's interpretation of the data but the data itself.


Both videos I've linked contain the data sources.


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## Pepper (Oct 5, 2022)

chic said:


> If we cannot claim sovereignty over our own bodies, we have no freedom left.


Since that broad comment also includes abortion I don't understand why anti choice @amwassil gave it a like.


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## chic (Oct 5, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Since that broad comment also includes abortion I don't understand why anti choice @amwassil gave it a like.


Funny how freedom of choice is limited in the eyes of some.


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## ElCastor (Oct 5, 2022)

chic said:


> If we cannot claim sovereignty over our own bodies, we have no freedom left.


Hmmm. Did I say you should be required to take the vaccine? No I did not! But I hope you don’t become one of the many reported to have begged for the vaccine while laying on their death bed, or worse yet, give the disease to some unvaccinated child.


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## SeniorBen (Oct 5, 2022)

amwassil said:


> Both videos I've linked contain the data sources.


So you haven't looked at the actual data. You just trust the video, which was made by an organization that has no credibility, whatsoever. They exist to make videos promoting conspiracy theories and profit from spreading misinformation.

Proof that they have no credibility: They claim that the pandemic is a hoax and that the shots are dangerous. They only have four employees. Yet they received $120,000 in PPP loans from the government, which they didn't have to pay back. Why would they need to cover their payroll if the pandemic is a hoax? They'd be able to work as usual.

Sounds like they scammed the government (us) out of $120k.


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## chic (Oct 5, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Hmmm. Did I say you should be required to take the vaccine? No I did not! But I hope you don’t become one of the many reported to have begged for the vaccine while laying on their death bed, or worse yet, give the disease to some unvaccinated child.


Yup. You did. Just take the vaccine and the boosters! No thank you. I will decide for myself what goes into my body.


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## ElCastor (Oct 5, 2022)

chic said:


> Yup. You did. Just take the vaccine and the boosters! No thank you. I will decide for myself what goes into my body.


Get real!!! Did I say you should be “REQUIRED” to take the vaccine?? NO! I DID NOT!!!!  NO! I DID NOT!!!!  NO! I DID NOT!!!!
I hope that is clear!


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## chic (Oct 5, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Get real!!! Did I say you should be “REQUIRED” to take the vaccine?? NO! I DID NOT!!!!  NO! I DID NOT!!!!  NO! I DID NOT!!!!
> I hope that is clear!


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## Sunny (Oct 5, 2022)

There are still a few diehards left on this forum who are fighting against a highly effective and safe vaccine, and will continue to do so with their last breath. Some have a phobia of getting any kind of shots.  Some are paranoid, and think there's some big conspiracy out to get them. Some bought into the wrong side of things when this was equated with a political issue, and are too stubborn or embarrassed to admit that they were taken in. Maybe some have religious objections to modern medicine and science, though I haven't seen too much of that on this forum. And some just love to argue.

The vaccine obviously works, amazingly well, and is close to 100% safe.  For those who still want to shut their eyes and cover their ears, so they don't have to hear that, it is certainly their right to join the small, suicidal group who are happy with unnecessarily risking their own lives, and those around them.

Incredible that this discussion is still going on here!


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## boliverchadsworth (Oct 9, 2022)

amwassil said:


> https://www.oraclefilms.com/safeandeffective


This analysis found that there is an 84% increase in the relative incidence of cardiac-related death among males 18-39 years old within 28 days following mRNA vaccination. With a high level of global immunity to COVID-19, the benefit of vaccination is likely outweighed by this abnormally high risk of cardiac-related death among men in this age group. Non-mRNA vaccines were not found to have these increased risk  florida 10/7/22


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## win231 (Oct 9, 2022)

Sunny said:


> There are still a few diehards left on this forum who are fighting against a highly effective and safe vaccine, and will continue to do so with their last breath. Some have a phobia of getting any kind of shots.  Some are paranoid, and think there's some big conspiracy out to get them. Some bought into the wrong side of things when this was equated with a political issue, and are too stubborn or embarrassed to admit that they were taken in. Maybe some have religious objections to modern medicine and science, though I haven't seen too much of that on this forum. And some just love to argue.
> 
> The vaccine obviously works, amazingly well, and is close to 100% safe.  For those who still want to shut their eyes and cover their ears, so they don't have to hear that, it is certainly their right to join the small, suicidal group who are happy with unnecessarily risking their own lives, and those around them.
> 
> Incredible that this discussion is still going on here!


As we've seen so often, you seek confidence in your decision to be vaccinated by trying to convince others to do the same.
And you ridicule those who don't do as you do because they shake your confidence - which was already shaky to begin with.


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## SeniorBen (Oct 9, 2022)

boliverchadsworth said:


> This analysis found that there is an 84% increase in the relative incidence of cardiac-related death among males 18-39 years old within 28 days following mRNA vaccination. With a high level of global immunity to COVID-19, the benefit of vaccination is likely outweighed by this abnormally high risk of cardiac-related death among men in this age group. Non-mRNA vaccines were not found to have these increased risk  florida 10/7/22



That's a quote from Florida Surgeon General Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo.

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Ladapo had promoted unproven treatments — hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin —, questioned the safety of vaccines, opposed lockdown mandates, and associated with America's Frontline Doctors, a far-right group known for promoting falsehoods about the pandemic.[8][9][10][19] In a March 24, 2020, opinion column in USA Today, Ladapo argued against lockdowns deriving from his experience in treating COVID-19 patients at UCLA, an assertion he repeated in a later column published by the Wall Street Journal.[20] However, UCLA staff scheduling roster did not have him assigned to treat COVID patients, and several of his colleagues rejected that he had treated any COVID-19 patient at UCLA ever.[20][21]​​With passage of time, he became a vocal supporter of Governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis' COVID-19 policies that ran against mainstream medical consensus.[22][19] On September 21, 2021, he was appointed to be the Surgeon General of the state, replacing Scott Rivkees, pending confirmation by the State Senate. Simultaneously, he was also appointed an associate professor at University of Florida Health in a fast-tracked hiring process, initiated after the Board of Trustees chair — a DeSantis advisor — had sent his resume to the UF Health president.[6] Faculties have since alleged that university administrators downplayed information about Ladapo's controversial views on COVID-19 before the vote on his tenure.[23]​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Ladapo​
You can trust government propaganda or you can trust scientists who overwhelmingly recommend getting vaccinated.


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## Pink Biz (Oct 9, 2022)

*Twitter blocked — and then restored — a post from Florida Surgeon General Joe Ladapo that was promoting an analysis claiming a high incidence of cardiac-related deaths among men who take the mRNA Covid-19 vaccine.*

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/...n-florida-surgeon-general-joe-ladapo-00061074


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## ElCastor (Oct 9, 2022)

boliverchadsworth said:


> This analysis found that there is an 84% increase in the relative incidence of cardiac-related death among males 18-39 years old within 28 days following mRNA vaccination. With a high level of global immunity to COVID-19, the benefit of vaccination is likely outweighed by this abnormally high risk of cardiac-related death among men in this age group. Non-mRNA vaccines were not found to have these increased risk  florida 10/7/22


Oracle Films is a Brit religious film company (huh?) -- not the usual authority on the efficacy of vaccines. Here is what the National Health Service (NHS) a recognized British authority has to say on the subject ...
"*The coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccines are safe and effective. They give you the best protection against COVID-19.*"
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

I received my 3rd booster two days ago and my side effect? A sore arm for a few hours. If you are one of those who refuse to be vaccinated, believing the vaccine will kill you or some such nonsense, and are laying on your COVID death bed, please don't bother begging for the vaccine, as many have, it's too late.


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## Victoria (Oct 17, 2022)

amwassil said:


> Look at the data. The UK data is from the NHS and the US from CDC. Neither one of those institutions is 'anti-vax'. Neither of them is 'anti-needle freaks'. All-Cause mortality has increased dramatically directly in line with injection rates in multiple countries. Those deaths will be investigated to determine if there is a cause/effect relation with injection rates. It is already known that the more injections you get the greater your probability of being infected, getting more seriously ill, hospitalized and dying than if you had not been injected at all. If you subjected yourself to 2-3 initial injections and a couple more boosters, I can understand you don't want to hear about adverse effects or your personal risk from doing so. And I sincerely hope you remain well and safe. But pooh poohing the data is useless.


It's probably from COVID itself, and long COVID. The effects of COVID can linger in the body even after the person stops testing positive. It weakens the person's over all health. Anyone who got the vaccine could have had COVID before the vaccine or still got a milder form after the vaccine. You can't attribute any data for sure to the vaccine when just about everyone has had COVID at some point.


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## Buckeye (Oct 17, 2022)

Sunny said:


> There are still a few diehards left on this forum who are fighting against a highly effective and safe vaccine, and will continue to do so with their last breath. Some have a phobia of getting any kind of shots.  Some are paranoid, and think there's some big conspiracy out to get them. Some bought into the wrong side of things when this was equated with a political issue, and are too stubborn or embarrassed to admit that they were taken in. Maybe some have religious objections to modern medicine and science, though I haven't seen too much of that on this forum. And some just love to argue.
> 
> The vaccine obviously works, amazingly well, and is close to 100% safe.  For those who still want to shut their eyes and cover their ears, so they don't have to hear that, it is certainly their right to join the small, suicidal group who are happy with unnecessarily risking their own lives, and those around them.
> 
> Incredible that this discussion is still going on here!


I used to teach Economics at the University level, and one topic of discussion was the issue of "free riders" - here's a link to wiki to explain.

Free Riders

The folks who refuse to get the vaccines are in fact "free riders", and yet reap the benefits of the majority being vaxxed.  Sadly, there is almost nothing that can be done about their selfishness.  Oh well, life goes on.


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## win231 (Oct 17, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> Oracle Films is a Brit religious film company (huh?) -- not the usual authority on the efficacy of vaccines. Here is what the National Health Service (NHS) a recognized British authority has to say on the subject ...
> "*The coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccines are safe and effective. They give you the best protection against COVID-19.*"
> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/
> 
> I received my 3rd booster two days ago and my side effect? A sore arm for a few hours. If you are one of those who refuse to be vaccinated, believing the vaccine will kill you or some such nonsense, and are laying on your COVID death bed, please don't bother begging for the vaccine, as many have, it's too late.


Yes, I've been begging for the vaccine for 3 years.
They keep telling me,_ "Sorry,  ElCastor said you haven't learned your lesson.  You can't have it until you're on your death bed." _


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## Remy (Oct 17, 2022)

I've had 3 covid vaccine shots. The one booster was last November. I don't remember when it was, in the spring sometime, I noticed something with my left eye sight. I didn't go to the doctor right away but finally did. In the end the Ophthalmologist diagnosed me with a stroke to my left eye. Part of the optical nerve is gone and won't come back so I have lost some sight in the left eye. 

I'm now leery of another booster. Was it related or not. I don't know.


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## SeniorBen (Oct 17, 2022)

I got a flu shot a few days ago and will get a covid booster soon.


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## Lethe200 (Oct 19, 2022)

I heard this long ago - back in the '60's, maybe? - and have never forgotten it: an example of how those who start with a bias can cherry-pick statistics:

"80% of people who have had heart attacks have chewed gum as children. Therefore, you should NEVER CHEW GUM, as it will obviously lead to a heart attack later!"

My spouse had a haemorrhagic stroke 4 days after we celebrated his 50th BD. We clearly shouldn't have celebrated it since it must have caused his stroke    (forget his sky-high BP which the doctor refused to treat and the incredible job stress he was under every day).

With the holidays and planned travel coming up, we are both getting our 3rd booster shots and flu shots tomorrow.


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## Lavinia (Oct 19, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Since that broad comment also includes abortion I don't understand why anti choice @amwassil gave it a like.


I also gave it a like. Abortion is different because TWO lives are involved. If the mother decides to commit murder, she has it on her conscience. Refusing a vaccination is entirely different.


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## boliverchadsworth (Oct 27, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> I used to teach Economics at the University level, and one topic of discussion was the issue of "free riders" - here's a link to wiki to explain.
> 
> Free Riders
> 
> The folks who refuse to get the vaccines are in fact "free riders", and yet reap the benefits of the majority being vaxxed.  Sadly, there is almost nothing that can be done about their selfishness.  Oh well, life goes on.


The Dunning–Kruger effect 

https://therealanthonyfaucimovie.com/trailer/


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## Been There (Oct 29, 2022)

After reading all the posts, I have come to the conclusion that taking or not taking the jab is a crapshoot.


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## win231 (Oct 29, 2022)

Buckeye said:


> I used to teach Economics at the University level, and one topic of discussion was the issue of "free riders" - here's a link to wiki to explain.
> 
> Free Riders
> 
> The folks who refuse to get the vaccines are in fact "free riders", and yet reap the benefits of the majority being vaxxed.  Sadly, there is almost nothing that can be done about their selfishness.  Oh well, life goes on.


There are two reasons for such asinine statements:
1.  To turn thinking people into sheep
2.  To guilt thinking people into getting vaccinated to bolster their own shaky confidence in the vaccine.


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