# Latino Civil Rights Leader Has A Harsh Warning For Republicans



## MrJim (Jul 22, 2014)

*





NCLR President: GOP Will Lose White House If Attitude On Child Refugees Continues

Click to expand...

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> *LOS ANGELES* -- Janet Murguía, president of the country's largest Latino advocacy group, has a formal warning for Republicans: Help the child refugees at the border and act on immigration reform, or say goodbye to the idea of winning the White House.
> 
> Murguía, the head of the *National Council of La Raza*, the largest Latino civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States, delivered her remarks Monday afternoon at the Los Angeles Convention Center during day three of the NCLR's annual conference. On the subject of the current border crisis, Murguía said she was "sickened" by the hostile reaction of many Americans to the child refugees and blamed House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) for Congress' inability to pass immigration reform.
> 
> ...




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/22/nclr-child-refugees_n_5610512.html


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## Warrigal (Jul 22, 2014)

I just had to look this woman up. She has a very impressive biography. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Murguía

I note that she was born and educated in Kansas City and her older brother and twin sister are federal judges. This is no radical extremist IMO. I think she has a warm heart to care about children and enough backbone to speak up for them.

I wish we had her like over here.


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## MrJim (Jul 22, 2014)

Hispanics are becoming a very powerful voting block here in the US.

Politicians who piss them off, do so at their own political peril.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 22, 2014)

Times are changing in America, and things aren't and never will be the way they were in the past when we were children.  I think that Republicans have to lighten up their attitudes on many things to win elections, like gay marriage, abortion, etc.


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## Warrigal (Jul 22, 2014)

I think she is asking for a compassionate bipartisan approach to a problem.
Perhaps she needs to wave the big stick around to get attention.

Even though our pollies aren't in bipartisan agreement on a similar issue (boat people) neither one is demonstrating any compassion. There is no section of the electorate with enough clout to get them to be more humane in their approach to unauthorised arrivals by boat. However some lawyers, acting on behalf of 157 unfortunates that our customs and navy have cooped up at sea, having intercepted them in Australian waters, have taken the Australian Government to the High Court, arguing  the detention of the 157 was tantamount to piracy. 
 The UNHCR has voiced “profound concern” at the treatment of those on board and those on  a separate boat carrying 41 asylum seekers from Sri Lanka who were subsequently handed over the Sri Lankan navy in an unprecedented on-sea transfer.

Of the 157 people we have locked up below deck on a customs vessel, 37 are children, some are infants.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-being-held-at-sea-in-windowless-locked-rooms

I guess our Janet Murduia  is civil rights lawyer Julian Burnside but he can't rally the voters.


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## oldman (Jul 23, 2014)

Like so many other issues that have become hot topics here in the U.S., immigration is an issue that will not go away until a comprehensive plan is put in place. I have always been on the side of being good with anyone that wants to come to the U.S., so long as they do it legally. After all, what other country has the problem we have here in the U.S. with people just coming in without following the proper procedures? Where am I going wrong with expecting people to following the rules to gain entry? 

Even if the Republicans would roll-over and except the plan laid out by the Democrats, I seriously doubt if blacks or Hispanics would all of a sudden switch parties. We have been lied to so much about immigration that people just do not trust their government. Remember when President Clinton, who I whole-heartedly supported, told the American people that by allowing free trade between the U.S, and Mexico (NAFTA) that more jobs would be gained in Mexico at better wages and therefore more of their people would want to stay in their own country? How did that work out for us?

I do not like to argue politics. You just aren't going to win an argument. So, I leave it up to the politicians to work out. They do not care about the people, it is all about their party.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 23, 2014)

Maybe she trying to make a name for herself and is thinking of running for POTUS in case Hillary falls flat on her face.


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

oldman said:


> Like so many other issues that have become hot topics here in the U.S., immigration is an issue that will not go away until a comprehensive plan is put in place. I have always been on the side of being good with anyone that wants to come to the U.S., so long as they do it legally. After all, what other country has the problem we have here in the U.S. with people just coming in without following the proper procedures? Where am I going wrong with expecting people to following the rules to gain entry?
> 
> Even if the Republicans would roll-over and except the plan laid out by the Democrats, I seriously doubt if blacks or Hispanics would all of a sudden switch parties. We have been lied to so much about immigration that people just do not trust their government. Remember when President Clinton, who I whole-heartedly supported, told the American people that by allowing free trade between the U.S, and Mexico (NAFTA) that more jobs would be gained in Mexico at better wages and therefore more of their people would want to stay in their own country? How did that work out for us?
> 
> I do not like to argue politics. You just aren't going to win an argument. So, I leave it up to the politicians to work out. They do not care about the people, it is all about their party.



I think the Repubs are boxed in on the issue.

Businesses, especially agriculture which is the backbone of our economy, benefit greatly from illegal immigrants who work cheap, recieve no fringe benefits, pay federal income taxes which are deducted & collect no retirement benefits. They also keep produce prices low which keeps the prices of all related products low.

Social conservatives want illegal immigrants gone because of the horror stories they hear about them & because they make a convenient scapegoat for everything wrong in the country.

Business & social conservatives together, comprise the Republicans' support base, while having competing interests on this issue.

Republicans get the lion's share of their contributions from business & industry lobby groups, while rank & file social conservative cast their votes for them.

No matter what they do, they're going to anger either the people who fund their campaigns or the people who cast their votes for them, which is why you don't see the Republican taking any action either way on immigration. 


The Democrats would be wise to keep this issue front & center.


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## kcvet (Jul 23, 2014)

what's she gonna do stand in front of the polls with a shotgun??? just another blow hard. all smoke and hot air


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

I don't get why someone that is as wonderful as this gal, don't go and straighten out Mexico.  What happens to these countries if they are all deserted, because everyone moves to America?  It's powerful Latinos like this gal that you would think would be working to save Mexico for their people.  Instead, it's leave the country to it's poverty, or gangs, whatever??

I mean, more and more people are talking about relocating to other countries because America is looking so bad.  Ever hear of the story about the family that invited all the neighbors in to live with them, and the neighbors took over the house and the family ended up having to move out??

Something else on her "warning" Republicans, it isn't just republicans that are against different issues.  And there are a lot of people like me that see good on both sides of the coin, I don't consider myself either R or D now??


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

kcvet said:


> what's she gonna do stand in front of the polls with a shotgun??? just another blow hard. all smoke and hot air



Yeah, you keep on telling yourself that.

And practice saying the words "Madame President"...






:rofl:


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Hispanics are becoming a very powerful voting block here in the US.
> 
> Politicians who piss them off, do so at their own political peril.



It's my experience people that throw rocks best be prepared to get hit back.  I she wants to help her people, why not move to Mexico and get tough?  Because she has it so good here that's why.  I met a gal recently that stayed here after attending Nursing College.  She was from Japan, and wanted to go back and serve in her country.  She liked it here better.


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Yeah, you keep on telling yourself that.
> 
> And practice saying the words "Madame President"...
> 
> ...



She won't have my vote.  I can only hope a better candidate runs, if not, I doubt I'll vote at all.  That's the way it's getting for me.  Last time it was lesser of two evils, and this time, I'm not voting for any "evils".  I don't think Hilary is evil, just don't believe in her is all.


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## kcvet (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Yeah, you keep on telling yourself that.
> 
> And practice saying the words "Madame President"...
> 
> ...



just as soon as hell freezes over

http://www.bofunk.com/video/4494/if_a_woman_were_president.html


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

oldman said:


> Like so many other issues that have become hot topics here in the U.S., immigration is an issue that will not go away until a comprehensive plan is put in place. I have always been on the side of being good with anyone that wants to come to the U.S., so long as they do it legally. After all, what other country has the problem we have here in the U.S. with people just coming in without following the proper procedures? Where am I going wrong with expecting people to following the rules to gain entry?
> 
> Even if the Republicans would roll-over and except the plan laid out by the Democrats, I seriously doubt if blacks or Hispanics would all of a sudden switch parties. We have been lied to so much about immigration that people just do not trust their government. Remember when President Clinton, who I whole-heartedly supported, told the American people that by allowing free trade between the U.S, and Mexico (NAFTA) that more jobs would be gained in Mexico at better wages and therefore more of their people would want to stay in their own country? How did that work out for us?
> 
> I do not like to argue politics. You just aren't going to win an argument. So, I leave it up to the politicians to work out. They do not care about the people, it is all about their party.



Ditto, I love what you had to say, I am not very educated on politics, but I go with what I believe to be right and wrong.  You are right about the politicians, they are gonna run the show anyway.  Or the power (money).  And no, there is no end to the arguing, no one wins although some love to gloat that they have.  I again, can hardly bare to see America so divided.  One day something will happen, again, that will force us to stand together, maybe we still will, who knows


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## kcvet (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> She won't have my vote.  I can only hope a better candidate runs, if not, I doubt I'll vote at all.  That's the way it's getting for me.  Last time it was lesser of two evils, and this time, I'm not voting for any "evils".  I don't think Hilary is evil, just don't believe in her is all.





*ok so it does make a difference*


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> I don't get why someone that is as wonderful as this gal, don't go and straighten out Mexico.  What happens to these countries if they are all deserted, because everyone moves to America?  It's powerful Latinos like this gal that you would think would be working to save Mexico for their people.  Instead, it's leave the country to it's poverty, or gangs, whatever??
> 
> I mean, more and more people are talking about relocating to other countries because America is looking so bad.  Ever hear of the story about the family that invited all the neighbors in to live with them, and the neighbors took over the house and the family ended up having to move out??
> 
> Something else on her "warning" Republicans, it isn't just republicans that are against different issues.  And there are a lot of people like me that see good on both sides of the coin, I don't consider myself either R or D now??



Well, first of all, she's an American citizen. Why should she leave the country she was born & raised in? Secondly, what exactly do you think one person, woman or man, could possibly do to turn the economic problems of an entire country around???

Kind of a silly notion when you think about, eh? Or a deflection designed to change the conversation or divert attention from the subject.

The point is, that the number of Hispanic voters is growing fast. So are the numbers of younger, more liberal & progressive thinking voters. The number of older, mostly white conservative voters who the Republicans appeal to, are shrinking. The Republicans are about to be left in the dust & will be if they don't moderate their views & start attempting to compromise on certain issues. It might not happen in the upcoming mid term elections where they could still possibly make gains, but it won't be far off if they continue to obstruct progress.

I think what we're seeing in the tea party movement is the last desperate gasp of a dying ideology trying to hang on to a set of outdated ideas.


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## Jackie22 (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> I think the Repubs are boxed in on the issue.
> 
> Businesses, especially agriculture which is the backbone of our economy, benefit greatly from illegal immigrants who work cheap, recieve no fringe benefits, pay federal income taxes which are deducted & collect no retirement benefits. They also keep produce prices low which keeps the prices of all related products low.
> 
> ...



Exactly!

Its not only the hispanics, its women, its gays, its blacks and it is the poor that the GOP have thrown under the bus.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 23, 2014)

Hillary Clinton without full face makeup..and remember she is a native of Illinois,where whatshisname came from too...


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

Jackie22 said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Its not only the hispanics, its women, its gays, its blacks and it is the poor that the GOP has thrown under the bus.



Yep.

And those are all people who come out & vote in Presidential elections.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Yeah, you keep on telling yourself that.
> 
> And practice saying the words "Madame President"...
> 
> ...




She's a native of  Illinois isn't she? Same as that other one in the White House and you want another one in there??? NAW


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Well, first of all, she's an American citizen. Why should she leave the country she was born & raised in? Secondly, what exactly do you think one person, woman or man, could possibly do to turn the economic problems of an entire country around???



History shows "one" person can make a difference, hell, she seems to be influencing quite a few from the OP already??



> Kind of a silly notion when you think about, eh? Or a deflection designed to change the conversation or divert attention from the subject.



name calling doesn't really bring America together does it?  I am not as wise as some about politics, but you definitely give more credit then I should get, about "trying" to divert attention.  Either that or I am sneakier and smarter then I think



> The point is, that the number of Hispanic voters is growing fast. So are the numbers of younger, more liberal & progressive thinking voters. The number of older, mostly white conservative voters who the Republicans appeal to, are shrinking. The Republicans are about to be left in the dust & will be if they don't moderate their views & start attempting to compromise on certain issues. It might not happen in the upcoming mid term elections where they could still possibly make gains, but it won't be far off if they continue to obstruct progress.
> 
> I think what we're seeing in the tea party movement is the last desperate gasp of a dying ideology trying to hang on to a set of outdated ideas.



And I don't think this is a good thing.  I think the point here is, what is best for America as a whole, not just "her ancestory".  I think our leaders need to be objective for America's sake.  America is made up of all nationalities.  I wonder if she would be as loud if it were another nationality crossing the borders?


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## kcvet (Jul 23, 2014)

and how many have Obozo thrown under the bus?? i lost count. starting with


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

Jackie22 said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Its not only the hispanics, its women, its gays, its blacks and it is the poor that the GOP have thrown under the bus.



And I've never agreed with this.  If the US is going to allow illegal immigrants to work here, they should be payed the same.  Otherwise, what does that make us?  I'm sure someone can think of a country that would do that.   Well yeah, you can work here, just has hard as citizens, but you don't get the good pay or bennies.  I'm confused  You see, you seem to think people that are against illegal immigrants coming into America, and being able to stay, don't care about them.


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## Jackie22 (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> And I've never agreed with this.  If the US is going to allow illegal immigrants to work here, they should be payed the same.  Otherwise, what does that make us?  I'm sure someone can think of a country that would do that.   Well yeah, you can work here, just has hard as citizens, but you don't get the good pay or bennies.  I'm confused  You see, you seem to think people that are against illegal immigrants coming into America, and being able to stay, don't care about them.



Well, I'll agree with you that they should be paid the same, but when you get to digging into the voting record of our elected leaders you will find that it is the republicans that vote for the rich and the corporations and they vote against the welfare of the above mentioned.

Anyone that keeps up with the voting record of our elected leaders is aware of this.

Now are the Democrats perfect....NO, do they make mistakes....YES

BUT when you research and study their record against Republicans, you'll see the difference.


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

But who's report/statistics Jackie, who the heck can you believe?  I think we are only given what "whoever" decides we can see.  And then, someone else comes up with an opposite report.  I said before I am not R or D, I an American citizen who votes for the most capable, in my eyes.  What I think is if we don't come together, we just won't be around to make any decisions at all.  We'll be like those countries that are overpowered/dictated.  Fantasy?  Maybe.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> I think the Repubs are boxed in on the issue.
> 
> Businesses, especially agriculture which is the backbone of our economy, benefit greatly from illegal immigrants who work cheap, recieve no fringe benefits, pay federal income taxes which are deducted & collect no retirement benefits. They also keep produce prices low which keeps the prices of all related products low.
> 
> ...



The La Raza person is late to the party. The CNN Ashly Women, the MSNBC crew and Mz. Pelosi already lectured the pro legal immigration only crowd.

More importantly the Democrats would be foolish to count on legitimate Hispanic votes. As a union member for decades conservative politics & Republicans were over 50% of the local. Many were vets and made good enough money to realize taxes were a killer. Some calculated the maximum number of hours to work before overtime pay was diminished by taxes. Also many sent their kids to private school and would get frustrated at what was being spent on the public schools. 

Setting that aside I would not count on Hispanic political views as a Democrat in particular.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Amer...uss-over-anti-gay-chants-at-World-Cup-matches


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Well, first of all, she's an American citizen. Why should she leave the country she was born & raised in? Secondly, what exactly do you think one person, woman or man, could possibly do to turn the economic problems of an entire country around???



It's true that one person, or even a group of people with good intentions, can't get far due to all the corruption, power and money behind the scenes in government.  If they make too much noise, they'll end up six feet under.   Even the president can only do so much, and is ruled by the money interests, large corporations, and other powers that be.


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

The OP sounded to me like this gal was making HUGE progress against those that don't agree with her, like how she has friends/relatives in high places?  Now I'm more confused.  Does she have the power and should those that disagree with her be worried or threatened/warned??  And when I said that about her going to help Mexico, I thought maybe her "highly placed" relatives would go with her as well?

I still think this boils down to coming to America legally, or illegally.  Is it the law or not, are there loopholes, fix the law.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 23, 2014)

Lets put all this candidates for 2016 to rest shall we?

Darth Vader is polling higher than all potential 2016 presidential candidates.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...n-all-potential-2016-presidential-candidates/


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## Warrigal (Jul 23, 2014)

NWLady said:
			
		

> The OP sounded to me like this gal was making HUGE progress against those that don't agree with her, like how she has friends/relatives in high places?  Now I'm more confused.  Does she have the power and should those that disagree with her be worried or threatened/warned??  And when I said that about her going to help Mexico, I thought maybe her "highly placed" relatives would go with her as well?


I was the one who mentioned that her siblings were federal judges and that she was born and raised in Kansas City. I did so not to raise any issue of influence in high places but to demonstrate that this family comprises US citizens with a record of contributing to American society. They are 'lifters' not 'leaners'. I have no idea what the circumstances of her parents were. They might have been rich or poor immigrants. Does it really matter? Does it matter where they were born ? They raised three very impressive kids.


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> She's a native of  Illinois isn't she? Same as that other one in the White House and you want another one in there??? NAW



"That other one" in the WH now is one hundred times the President that brain damaged hillbilly moron draft dodger from Texas ever was.

At least he hasn't bumbled & stumbled us into a one trillion dollar war for no damned reason whatsoever.

Oh wait, we may still find them danged ol WMD's in Iraq someday!!!!! :rofl:


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> History shows "one" person can make a difference, hell, she seems to be influencing quite a few from the OP already??



So now you're trying to say that because one person is firing up voters in America, they could go to a third world country like Mexico & change the entire economic system overnight so that every Mexican citizen will be so deliriously happy, they'll stop coming across the border & making you all nervous & uncomfy?

I hate to use the "s" word again, but honestly... that's kinda silly, don't you think?



nwlady said:


> name calling doesn't really bring America together does it?  I am not as wise as some about politics, but you definitely give more credit then I should get, about "trying" to divert attention.  Either that or I am sneakier and smarter then I think



Name calling??? Who is name calling? Pointing out that a suggestion is "silly" is not name calling. Implying that it is name calling on the other hand is... oh, nevermind. 



nwlady said:


> And I don't think this is a good thing.  I think the point here is, what is best for America as a whole, not just "her ancestory".  I think our leaders need to be objective for America's sake.  America is made up of all nationalities.  I wonder if she would be as loud if it were another nationality crossing the borders?



Yeah, white, anglo-saxon conservative Americans, the most self-interested group of people in the US really just _hate it_ when some other group asserts themselves by engaging in the same behavior they do. It's human nature for members of groups to stick together. Besides, I'm sure they feel that what's good for them is also good for the country. 

At any rate, the woman was just telling it like it is. La Raza has a lot of influence over Hispanic voters just like AARP has over senior citizen voters & the Southern Baptist Convention has over Christian voters.


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

she says they are refugees, and I thought they were illegal immigrants.  Geez.  Will the real *truth* please stand up


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> And I've never agreed with this.  If the US is going to allow illegal immigrants to work here, they should be payed the same.  Otherwise, what does that make us?  I'm sure someone can think of a country that would do that.   Well yeah, you can work here, just has hard as citizens, but you don't get the good pay or bennies.  I'm confused  You see, you seem to think people that are against illegal immigrants coming into America, and being able to stay, don't care about them.



Stop & think about how much your food would cost at the grocery store if the people who harvest it out in the fields got paid like Americans with all the same benefits.

Would you be willing to pay $5 for a tomato?


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> So now you're trying to say that because one person is firing up voters in America, they could go to a third world country like Mexico & change the entire economic system overnight so that every Mexican citizen will be so deliriously happy, they'll stop coming across the border & making you all nervous & uncomfy?
> 
> I hate to use the "s" word again, but honestly... that's kinda silly, don't you think?
> 
> ...




That's ok, we both name-called, you did way better though with your post to Davey  No, she was telling it like she sees it.  Like I mention later, are they refugees or illegal immigrants.  Still sounds to me that they want to "interpret" the law to they're belief of what is right and wrong to do in this situation.

I think you assume every American that is against some being allowed across our borders, are racists or selfish, which I strongly disagree with you there.  In fact, you sound much more like a racist then I have in any of my statements.  I don't give a dang what color a person is, or what language they speak, it isn't the person, it's the situations in the US that are being neglected, but what's front-page-news.  Oh the Right Wing all suck, they are a bunch of..or the left sucks.  Or my team is gonna kick your teams ass, how does this help the situation??


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Stop & think about how much your food would cost at the grocery store if the people who harvest it out in the fields got paid like Americans with all the same benefits.
> 
> Would you be willing to pay $5 for a tomato?



If you are not a citizen, and living and working in America, you are illegal, breaking the law.  If we have to pay 5.00 a tomato, then we best figure it out in the right way, not justify people breaking the law.  Americans are supposed to be punished for breaking the our law, so we have a double-standard so we can have cheaper tomatos?  Wouldn't there be a better way?  Maybe no one here thinks so, something ain't right though, and even my pea-brain can see that.


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> The La Raza person is late to the party. The CNN Ashly Women, the MSNBC crew and Mz. Pelosi already lectured the pro legal immigration only crowd.
> 
> More importantly the Democrats would be foolish to count on legitimate Hispanic votes. As a union member for decades conservative politics & Republicans were over 50% of the local. Many were vets and made good enough money to realize taxes were a killer. Some calculated the maximum number of hours to work before overtime pay was diminished by taxes. Also many sent their kids to private school and would get frustrated at what was being spent on the public schools.
> 
> ...



All beside the point.

La Raza speaks directly to Hispanics & has huge support amongst them. Also, Hispanics are the fastest growing segment of several states like Florida, that are key swing states in Presidential elections.

It's common knowledge that you don't win the WH without winning Florida.

And there are a LOT of Hispanics here in Florida.


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> If you are not a citizen, and living and working in America, you are illegal, breaking the law.  If we have to pay 5.00 a tomato, then we best figure it out in the right way, not justify people breaking the law.  Americans are supposed to be punished for breaking the our law, so we have a double-standard so we can have cheaper tomatos?  Wouldn't there be a better way?  Maybe no one here thinks so, something ain't right though, and even my pea-brain can see that.



File it under "just the way things are".

The nation's economic health is the most important thing there is. Agriculture is the backbone of our economy. If our agricultural industry fails, the rest of the country fails. Then all that right & wrong, double-standard business will mean nothing. Sometimes you just have to look beyond certain things for the greater good.

Wouldn't do us any good to get hung up on the letter of the law if there was no country left.


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

right, and that's what it looks like for the future imo, no more country.  And I hear that way, too often, "it's just the way it is" and it's said when the person has no wisdom to correct a bad situation.  Worse then that, it's often said by people that not only "do not have an answer" they won't take anyone else's opinion into account.  Like the doctor that can't find what is wrong with a person, sends them home to die, or just live with it.  When there are many other doctors that might be recommended.  Why does that happen?  Because the first doc thinks they have all the answers so why look further.


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## Warrigal (Jul 23, 2014)

If local tomatoes become too expensive then the supermarkets will just import them from third world countries. That's what happens over here.

Actually if trade barriers are adjusted so that poor countries can receive fair trade deals then less people might stop trying to enter rich ones. Just a thought.


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> If local tomatoes become too expensive then the supermarkets will just import them from third world countries. That's what happens over here.
> 
> Actually if trade barriers are adjusted so that poor countries can receive fair trade deals then less people might stop trying to enter rich ones. Just a thought.



This makes good sense to me, I figured someone would come up with a better way than justifying breaking the law.  Dang, good thought Dame


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> That's ok, we both name-called, you did way better though with your post to Davey  No, she was telling it like she sees it.  Like I mention later, are they refugees or illegal immigrants.  Still sounds to me that they want to "interpret" the law to they're belief of what is right and wrong to do in this situation.
> 
> I think you assume every American that is against some being allowed across our borders, are racists or selfish, which I strongly disagree with you there.  In fact, you sound much more like a racist then I have in any of my statements.  I don't give a dang what color a person is, or what language they speak, it isn't the person, it's the situations in the US that are being neglected, but what's front-page-news.  Oh the Right Wing all suck, they are a bunch of..or the left sucks.  Or my team is gonna kick your teams ass, how does this help the situation??



Well now you are name-calling. I never called you or the right or anyone else a racist. 

Those on the right have a distinct tendency towards narrow thinking & paranoia towards foreigners, which they think is patriotism, though.

And as for conservatives being selfish... having one's primary interests & motives revolve mainly about one's self or one's own group, is the definition of selfishness. I didn't make up the word or it's meaning.

It is what it is.


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> This makes good sense to me, I figured someone would come up with a better way than justifying breaking the law.  Dang, good thought Dame



Yeah, but if we import tomatoes from third world countries, what happens to the tomato growers here in the US????

They go out of business!!!! That hurts the economy!!!!

We're talking tens of billions of dollars just in that one industry alone. Then, add all the other agri products that would have to be imported & all the other industries that would cease to exist here in the US...

It's all tied together!!!!

Hel - LO?????


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> right, and that's what it looks like for the future imo, no more country.  And I hear that way, too often, "it's just the way it is" and it's said when the person has no wisdom to correct a bad situation.  Worse then that, it's often said by people that not only "do not have an answer" they won't take anyone else's opinion into account.  Like the doctor that can't find what is wrong with a person, sends them home to die, or just live with it.  When there are many other doctors that might be recommended.  Why does that happen?  Because the first doc thinks they have all the answers so why look further.



That's funny because those on the side you advocate have never come up with any ideas whatsoever!!!! :rofl:

Other than "put up a fence & guard it 24/7/365".

Ever consider how much that would cost???? 

So... let's hear some of your ideas on how to solve the problem.

All I've heard so far is a lot of complaining.


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

Oh please, you think the left is any less of what you are saying the right is?  I don't want to talk anymore about teams, we all should be working together, not bad-mouthing the way others think, or what group they supposedly belong to.  I'm an American and want what is best for America.  True, I don't always know who to believe, let alone vote for, but if I hear something good from a democrat I'll listen up just as quickly as if a republican is saying it.  To me it sounds like you have found every person who is conservative, or right-wing wrong on all counts.  I think we would do well to see where "people" are right and good.  

If we don't listen to both sides with "open" minds, what do we do, just vote for anyone that has an R in front of their name?  That doesn't seem very bright to me.


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> That's funny because those on the side you advocate have never come up with any ideas whatsoever!!!! :rofl:
> 
> Other than "put up a fence & guard it 24/7/365".
> 
> ...



Because I don't agree with you that puts me on the opposite team.  I don't see where I've defended or advocated either side, I only see where I have disagreed with you.


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:
			
		

> Oh please, you think the left is any less of what you are saying the right is? I don't want to talk anymore about teams, we all should be working together, not bad-mouthing the way others think, or what group they supposedly belong to. I'm an American and want what is best for America. True, I don't always know who to believe, let alone vote for, but if I hear something good from a democrat I'll listen up just as quickly as if a republican is saying it. To me it sounds like you have found every person who is conservative, or right-wing wrong on all counts. I think we would do well to see where "people" are right and good.
> 
> If we don't listen to both sides with "open" minds, what do we do, just vote for anyone that has an R in front of their name? That doesn't seem very bright to me.



Well, you either agree with one side or the other.

Each side's positions on the issues are well known & most of their candidates & elected officials more or less toe the party line, so it's not that unusual that the majority of Americans identify with either the left or the right.

I happen to think that the Republicans are wrong on just about everything.

And that is my right.


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## MrJim (Jul 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Because I don't agree with you that puts me on the opposite team.  I don't see where I've defended or advocated either side, I only see where I have disagreed with you.



Of course you have.

You advocate blocking the border & sending back all the undocumented aliens including those kids.

Or do you advocate letting them stay here at least until something can be done in which their safety can be assured?

Which is it?


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## Denise1952 (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Well, you either agree with one side or the other.
> 
> Each side's positions on the issues are well known & most of their candidates & elected officials more or less toe the party line, so it's not that unusual that the majority of Americans identify with either the left or the right.
> 
> ...



No, I don't have to agree with one side or the other, both can be right, and both can be wrong. Both can have good points and bad.  Those teams you keep talking about, and deciding who belongs on which of the two, are made up of imperfect people, they can't be all right all the time.  

I'm not going to discuss it further with you though because I don't appreciate the way you "discuss" so carry on without me.  I can tell you I am not against "your" team because of anything you've said here though.  It's too bad when discussions have to end when maybe we could have worked together on a solution.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 23, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> If local tomatoes become too expensive then the supermarkets will just import them from third world countries. That's what happens over here.
> 
> Actually if trade barriers are adjusted so that poor countries can receive fair trade deals then less people might stop trying to enter rich ones. Just a thought.



Importing food is not necessarily the only option. Especially for cheaper food.

For decades the US has been paying farmers NOT to grow food. They justified it with a "conservation" angle by planting trees instead. The last big farm bill in 1980s was during the first generation of tree huggers and a lot of farm forclosures(I think Farm Aid was one of the first big celebrity benefit concerts). Billions are paid to farmers NOT to grow food. If they're growing anything the land isn't a dirt field. Think if billions of dollars of food came on the market. It would add choice and competition to help keep prices down. And if they were to SECURE the border it would tougher to get illegal labor to work the farms. Smaller farms would require fewer employee but better paid employees. Many want those kind of farm subsidies stopped.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/01/AR2006070100962.html

http://tbo.com/news/nation-world/20...-end-paying-farmers-not-to-grow-cr-ar-151982/

An attempt was made this year to end the subsidies but they were repackaged in a January Farm Bill.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/20/business/richer-farmers-bigger-subsidies.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Personally I think the big corporate farms and food producers a little more than something to do with this.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/ofgu/lionsshare121304.cfm

 But even if there is extra food that wouldn't sell some of it could exported or donated. In the 1980s a lot of farmers had trouble but it's almost 4 decades later. I think we could export more than ever before. I'd like to see many more smaller farms and farmers. Ending subsidies must coincide with securing the border.


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## Warrigal (Jul 23, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Yeah, but if we import tomatoes from third world countries, what happens to the tomato growers here in the US????
> 
> They go out of business!!!! That hurts the economy!!!!
> 
> ...



It is very complex isn't it? I have occasionally purchased fair trade products, mostly coffee grown in Papua New Guinea. The Fair Trade label means that the plantation workers get a fair wage and the profit stays in the community. I hope it helps to support ethical businesses. Otherwise I try to buy local produce.

Given that the problems are deeply embedded in the global economic structures, it's no wonder that many people choose to go on the move looking for better. Then there are the refugees who have little choice in the matter because their choice is between probable death and possible survival.


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## oldman (Jul 24, 2014)

Before Obama became President, the U.S. was already becoming extremely divided. When Obama became President, We then became fully divided. Some people believe that heir disdain for Obama is because of his color. I think that may be partially right for some of those that really do not like him. For my part, I have issues with his economics, his self imposed importance (my way or the highway), his selections to the Supreme Court, and on and on. I am basically a conservative, however, I do believe that the government should help the poor, the unemployed, the seniors and the young that want a college education. 

Foreign affairs, including wars and all of the money the U.S. sends overseas, should be stopped, unless the countries are impoverished, like Ethiopia. Wars costs this country just too much money. We are the leading country in wars. Borrowing money to fight wars is ridiculous. 

Enough. No one wins arguing politics.


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## Davey Jones (Jul 24, 2014)

nwlady said:


> she says they are refugees, and I thought they were illegal immigrants. Geez. Will the real *truth* please stand up



Someone said :Illegal immigration is not a new problem. Native Americans use to call it "White People".


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## MrJim (Jul 24, 2014)

oldman said:


> Before Obama became President, the U.S. was already becoming extremely divided. When Obama became President, We then became fully divided. Some people believe that heir disdain for Obama is because of his color. I think that may be partially right for some of those that really do not like him. For my part, I have issues with his economics, his self imposed importance (my way or the highway), his selections to the Supreme Court, and on and on. I am basically a conservative, however, I do believe that the government should help the poor, the unemployed, the seniors and the young that want a college education.
> 
> Foreign affairs, including wars and all of the money the U.S. sends overseas, should be stopped, unless the countries are impoverished, like Ethiopia. Wars costs this country just too much money. We are the leading country in wars. Borrowing money to fight wars is ridiculous.
> 
> Enough. No one wins arguing politics.



Well I agree with much of what you said. America was divided prior to Obama & gotten more so since Obama. However, that is not any of Obama's doing. The hyper partisanship that is occurring in this country now would be the same under any President of either party. Because our society is becoming more & more divided, we elect leaders on each side who try to cater to the wishes of those who elected them. 

But as for his "my way or the highway" attitude, look back at the Bush years & you'll see the same thing, but AFAIC, Bush was much worse. 

As for Obama's USSC appointments, he's only made one. The guys who Bush appointed, (especially the current Chief Justice, Roberts) are the ones who gave us the _Citizens United_ decision which says that, in effect, corporations are considered people when it comes to political campaign donations, & that as long as they disclose their identity, they can pour unlimited amounts of cash directly into any campaign fund they want to. In other words, thanks to this court, corporations are now free to buy elections & put whoever will do their bidding into office. And if they indirectly donate to a campaign by giving money to outside groups, they don't even have to disclose who they are.

In short, the Bush appointed Supreme Court has stacked the deck so that big corporations have an incredible advantage over individuals or grass roots groups when it comes to funding the campaigns of those they want in office.

That is one helluva lot worse than anything Sonia Sotomayor (Obama's one appointment) has had anything to do with.

In fact, she has had virtually no impact whatsoever, given that she part of the four member liberal minority on the nine member bench.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 26, 2014)

MrJim said:


> Well I agree with much of what you said. America was divided prior to Obama & gotten more so since Obama. However, that is not any of Obama's doing. The hyper partisanship that is occurring in this country now would be the same under any President of either party. Because our society is becoming more & more divided, we elect leaders on each side who try to cater to the wishes of those who elected them.
> _....... _



Obama didn't create the last administration's mess but he/ his party enabled it every time they made a deal to pass a bill, appropriate money or do favors. If all the Democrats had voted against things like the Patriot Act or didn't renew it I doubt the NSA would've gotten as big as it did today. Or if Fannie and Freddie didn't get some of their deals early this century things might very well be different. The problem is the career politicians who make unnecessary deals with each other-but that's what they do.


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## oldman (Jul 26, 2014)

"As for Obama's USSC appointments, he's only made one."

Actually, he made two. Sotomayor and Kagan. However, like I said somewhere on this Forum, I do not argue politics because no one wins these arguments. Just like in your rant, it is full of opinions and that's what starts arguments. One last thing, Chief Justice Roberts has been a very extreme disappointment to me, so far and even though the SC has ruled against Obama at least 13 times, I still stand behind him as my President. I get that from serving my country under Johnson. (Enough said.)


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## MrJim (Jul 26, 2014)

oldman said:


> "As for Obama's USSC appointments, he's only made one."
> 
> Actually, he made two. Sotomayor and Kagan. However, like I said somewhere on this Forum, I do not argue politics because no one wins these arguments. Just like in your rant, it is full of opinions and that's what starts arguments. One last thing, Chief Justice Roberts has been a very extreme disappointment to me, so far and even though the SC has ruled against Obama at least 13 times, I still stand behind him as my President. I get that from serving my country under Johnson. (Enough said.)



Aside from my one misstatement regarding the number of USSC appointments Obama has made, the rest of what I said about the _Citizen's United_ decision was based in fact. Your rant about my "rant", as you chose to (mis)characterize it, being full of nothing more than opinions, is therefore, completely incorrect.

For someone who claims to avoid starting political arguments, you certainly do seem eager to get one going here.

Personally, the way I see it, that's the purpose of a forum such as this one... to express one's views on politics & current events. I tend to get involved in them if & when I feel like it. If you prefer not to, nobody is twisting your arm.


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