# A Little Drama Before Landing



## oldman (Jul 11, 2017)

I was reading some of my entries that I wrote into one of my many journals during my flying career and I came upon an interesting flight that I had experienced and thought perhaps there were at least a few people that may be interested in drama, so I decided that I would share it. Most of you may not understand the technological aspects of what I have written, but you will get the idea.

On a flight from San Diego to Denver, which is a hub for United, I was Captain and had the controls on a B-757 with 288 passengers and crew. Counting all passengers, crew, baggage and fuel, we were at MTOW (Maximum Take Off Weight). Most of the passengers were going to Denver to make a connection to another airport, so we did have a responsibility to get them to their destination on time. Connections sometimes are as little as 20 minutes between landing and takeoffs. In some cases, it is up to the Captain of a flight that is waiting on passengers, if he wants to wait a few extra minutes for his passengers to arrive from their previous location before taking off. You have to understand that Airports and ATC's (Air Traffic Controllers) in particular do not like to have their schedule disrupted, if the plane is ready to roll, but decides to wait. This type of situation can really mess up an airport's schedule. Daily, each plane is given a window of time to takeoff. If they miss it, they have to wait until all of the other planes that are still in their window of time period to be served first. If you, as a Captain decide to wait, you can really mess up that plane's schedule for that particular day.

Anyway, as we were nearing Denver, we went through a pre arrival checklist. Everything went well and so we advised the ATC in charge of our arrival in Denver that we were preparing to land and that we would be using their ILS (Instrument Landing System) to guide us to the runway and that we were requesting Runway 16R, which is my favorite because it's the longest runway here in the U.S. By using the ILS, it actually sets the airplane right down on the center line of the runway. In most cases, if the flight has gone well, the pilots have turned on the AP (Auto Pilot) as soon as they have taken off and then have not touched the controls again until just before touchdown at their arrival airport. Just after my F/O (First Officer) advised the ATC with that information, I requested that the F/O lower the landing gear. Unfortunately, nothing happened. For a moment or two, time kind of stood still and it's like, "What just happened or should I say didn't happen?" 

I told the F/O to try it again. Still nothing. I then told the F/O that we were going to get out the manual and do a troubleshoot of the system. The third item that was listed for us to check was the circuit breakers. We took out the old circuit breaker and put in a new one and just like magic, it was fixed. What a great feeling and again, I thanked Mr. Boeing.

Hope that you enjoyed the story.


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## Pappy (Jul 11, 2017)

I enjoy your flying stories, oldman.


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## Falcon (Jul 11, 2017)

I had a similar experience in advanced flight training in Altus, OK in an AT-17  (Cessna  UC-78)

Gear wouldn't lower.  However, knowing that the   lower parts of the wheels extended  several inches below the engine nacells, I kept clicking

the prop feathering switches until the props  were horizontal  and landed.  I had already established a very long approach so I could do a dead-stick
landing.  All turned out well; nary a scratch on that old "Bamboo Bomber"


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## Ruth n Jersey (Jul 11, 2017)

Great stories.The hubby and I just finished watching Sully the movie about  the captain that landed his plane in the Hudson river.what is your take on the movie.did he make wise decisions in your mind?


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## terry123 (Jul 12, 2017)

I am not a pilot but admire Sully and all pilots who have to make those decisions!  Thankful for their good judgment and expertise in flying.  Thankful its not me.  Before flying I bless the pilots and personnel and put everybody in God's hands and then I can relax and know that all is well.


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## oldman (Jul 12, 2017)

Falcon said:


> I had a similar experience in advanced flight training in Altus, OK in an AT-17  (Cessna  UC-78)
> 
> Gear wouldn't lower.  However, knowing that the   lower parts of the wheels extended  several inches below the engine nacells, I kept clicking
> 
> ...




I really enjoy listening to the stories told by pilots that flew some of these old crates during the wars. Doing a dead-stick landing and walking away from it is a true art, in my book. It is sort of like a glider landing without any power available. I have heard from other pilots that have performed this maneuver. I once did something very similar in a simulator, but as most pilots will tell anyone that will listen, doing a maneuver in a simulator and doing one in real time is not quite the same. The stress level rises in real time when no mistake is acceptable, otherwise, the pilot may hit the ground and not in a good way. My landing in the simulator was using just the APU, which is better than no power at all.


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## oldman (Jul 12, 2017)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> Great stories.The hubby and I just finished watching Sully the movie about  the captain that landed his plane in the Hudson river.what is your take on the movie.did he make wise decisions in your mind?



Absolutely!!

Sully is definitely a hero. I also watched this movie and it sort of irritated me when the folks at the NTSB did not believe him when he was trying to convince them that he had no engine power. The dog-gone ACARS report almost cost him his career, but the data on the FDR showed that he was being truthful. Like most people will tell you, the truth will always prevail. (Well, almost always.) He actually wrote a piece for the pilot's union magazine, ALPA, which spoke about making water landings long before he had to perform one. 

One important thing to keep in mind is that he was fortunate to be able to perform his water landing on a river and not on the ocean where waves and rough seas can make a 180 degrees difference. However, nonetheless, I really applauded Sully for pulling it off and if you noticed his calmness, most people will say that, "I bet he was crapping in his pants." I would have to disagree. A pilot cannot lose control of his emotions and still perform his duties in any situation, especially an emergency situation where one little mistake could have caused the plane to tumble or flip and all would have been lost. Congratulations, Captain Sullenberger.


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## oldman (Jul 12, 2017)

Pappy said:


> I enjoy your flying stories, oldman.



Pappy:  I still remember your post to my post regarding pilots at United were directed to wear their cap and coat while in the terminal and I think that I was complaining about having to do it, if I was just wanting to run inside and get a Starbucks, you had said that you thought it made us look more professional (than the pilots who did not).  

I had read my wife your post and she agreed. I asked her why she never mentioned that before and she said that the subject just never came up. Maybe someday I will post my picture. I am a little shy about posting any pictures of myself on any website for personal reasons, but maybe someday I will ignore my rule and just do it. 

Anyway, just like Falcon, I have a lot of really good stories, at least for anyone that likes to read about what goes on during flights, both in the cockpit and in the coach. I flew a lot of non stops from Washington, D.C., Miami and New York to LA and San Francisco, so I was fortunate enough to have met a lot of famous celebs, athletes and politicians. Not that I am starry-eyed, but those people live completely different lives than most of us "average Joes."  They have some really great stories to tell and if I had the time or opportunity to meet with them, they would sometime share a few. 

Hope to see you on-board soon.


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 12, 2017)

Glad you thought to troubleshoot Oldman, and the circuit breaker did the trick, you must have been in many precarious situations.  I don't like flying but I have to say if all pilots were like you, it would be more comforting.


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## oldman (Jul 12, 2017)

SeaBreeze said:


> Glad you thought to troubleshoot Oldman, and the circuit breaker did the trick, you must have been in many precarious situations.  I don't like flying but I have to say if all pilots were like you, it would be more comforting.



Thanks, SeaBreeze. We have a checklist to follow whenever an issue pops up. It's pretty much a "How To" guide. We have checklists for everything that you can and can't imagine.


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## oldman (Jul 13, 2017)

As I read through my journal, I am finding some interesting little items that happened while we were in the air and I had forgotten about. Like this one: On a flight from Miami to New York, we were experiencing some heavy turbulence coming up the coast and so, the seat belt sign was on for the passengers to remain seated and we had also seated the F/A's. I had the controls when the Purser rang the cockpit bell. The F/O answered it and I heard him tell her that he had to check with the Captain.

He said that a pregnant women in seat 15A needed to use the lavatory really bad. I remembered back when my wife was pregnant and when she needed to go, she needed to go. I told him to tell the Purser, OK, but put one F/A in front of her and one in back and tell her to grab the seat back as she came up the aisle and the same going back and also to please take it slow.

We did OK and got through it and she was very appreciative. I am sure the passengers sitting in her row were also.


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## 911 (Jul 16, 2017)

I like to fly, oldman, but I really don't care for having any drama at 35,000 feet. I watched some of those films on TV about airplane crashes and I really felt sorry for the passengers that knew they were about to crash and also for the families that lost their loved ones. It has to be a terrible way to go.


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## Butterfly (Jul 16, 2017)

Oldman, I really enjoy your stories -- please post more of them!


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## oldman (Jul 17, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Oldman, I really enjoy your stories -- please post more of them!



Thank you for your interest. At first I was hesitant about posting any stories that had to do with flying thinking that people may not care. But, I have had some really nice comments from some of you and I appreciate your interest and also for the few people that have asked me questions about flying. Two of the local high schools in my area invite me each year to their career day workshops. They like for me to tell the students why they should consider a career in flying. Kids today are very intelligent and ask some really good questions. I have also learned over the years that there are a lot of pilot wannabes in schools that have computer simulators on their computers. I have always thought that when we (pilots) tell a story that we should try to keep the technical terms out of the story. Being a pilot is like any other job in that we have a lot of insider jargon that is Greek to a lot of people. For example, if I would ask you what is a localizer, would you be able to answer it?


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## Pappy (Jul 17, 2017)

Probably something I would need to take orally before I fly again, oldman. :sentimental:


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## oldman (Jul 18, 2017)

Pappy said:


> Probably something I would need to take orally before I fly again, oldman. :sentimental:



That's funny, but you're not even close.


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## oldman (Jul 19, 2017)

A "localizer" is part of the ILS or Instrument Landing System, which, along with the "glide slope" is used to direct the plane to the center of the runway. In bad weather when the pilot has trouble seeing the runway, the ILS and AP (auto pilot) are almost always used. The other type of landing is VFR or Visual Flight Rules. Either may be used at the pilot's discretion. 

When I would fly into Chicago, Denver or any other snowy airport in the winter, the ILS combined with the AP was a Godsend. Just think; you're the pilot and you just came through the clouds during your final approach into O'Hare in Chicago and it's snowing like crazy. You can barely see the airport and the lights for the runway are hardly noticeable. The ATC has informed you that visibility is 50 ft. and winds are out of the NE at 25-40 mph. (Actually, you would get a heading for the winds and not a direction.) It's your job to put the plane down at the start of the runway to ensure that you have enough blacktop under you to stop the plane, so you don't run off the end of the runway and end up in a field or worse, but you can't see the runway and you are traveling at 130 kts. +/- 20 kts. and weighing about 390,000 lbs. on touchdown. Would you rather have a system that all but puts the plane down for you at the exact location it needs to be or go it on your own? For me, I would prefer using the ILS. 

I know this all sounds Greek to the laymen, but if you're really interested, here is a sample of what I am talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwoTjCfgDGU


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## Butterfly (Jul 20, 2017)

Oldman, I understand most of that -- I got on a kick a while ago where I was fascinated by that TV series "Mayday: Air Crash Investigations" and they explained a lot of that in those programs.  I still think it is sort of miraculous that a plane the size of a big jet can fly and come down in one piece, and I can't imagine having to keep track of all that information on all those instruments so that the plane can land safely.  I can't imagine what it takes to do that everyday and not be a nervous wreck, knowing you have all those lives literally in your hands.

I also find it amazing that air traffic controllers keep track of all that traffic and manage to keep planes (almost all the time) from running into each other, landing on top of each other or on the wrong runway or whatever.  I sure would not want that job, either.  That series I mentioned above had a couple of stories about what can happen when controllers make an error, too, and the catastrophic results.  I made my share of errors when I was working, but at least mine were fixable and didn't cost lives.


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## oldman (Jul 21, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Oldman, I understand most of that -- I got on a kick a while ago where I was fascinated by that TV series "Mayday: Air Crash Investigations" and they explained a lot of that in those programs.  I still think it is sort of miraculous that a plane the size of a big jet can fly and come down in one piece, and I can't imagine having to keep track of all that information on all those instruments so that the plane can land safely.  I can't imagine what it takes to do that everyday and not be a nervous wreck, knowing you have all those lives literally in your hands.
> 
> I also find it amazing that air traffic controllers keep track of all that traffic and manage to keep planes (almost all the time) from running into each other, landing on top of each other or on the wrong runway or whatever.  I sure would not want that job, either.  That series I mentioned above had a couple of stories about what can happen when controllers make an error, too, and the catastrophic results.  I made my share of errors when I was working, but at least mine were fixable and didn't cost lives.



I watch a program on the Smithsonian Channel named "Air Disasters." There is also a program on the Weather Channel named "When Planes Crash." Both programs are very realistic. As for watching all of the instruments, this is one of the reasons why there are two pilots in the cockpit. One pilot flies the plane while the other pilot plays the part of a Flight Engineer and it's his/her job to watch all of the instruments and make any changes at the discretion of the pilot flying the plane or the Captain. If I am flying the plane, I may tell the F/O to set the flaps at "Flaps 3," or, I may tell him/her "Gear Down," which means to lower the landing gear. Also, I may tell him/her to make an announcement to the passengers and so forth. The non flying pilot does everything, except fly the plane. 

ATC's have a huge amount of responsibility. They are the pilot's eyes by keeping them informed of what's going on up in the air and also what's going on while the plane is on the ground. Planes have crashed into one another while on the ground and they have either been on taxiways or runways. ATC's go though a magnitude of training after they are accepted by the FAA and have met their requirements. I also believe that they must be hired before their 31st birthday and then they must retire by their 56th birthday.


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## oldman (Jul 21, 2017)

On 9/11/2001, I was not scheduled to fly. Tuesday was normally a fly day for me, but my wife was having some minor surgery, so I took the day off. As I was sitting in the hospital's surgical waiting room watching TV, I believe that "Imus In the Morning" was on Fox at that time, the station quickly broke away to report that one of the twin towers in New York had been hit by a jet airliner. I immediately had my doubts that it was an accident. That just couldn't happen, unless it was on purpose. Then a short while later, my feelings were confirmed as the second tower had been struck. America was under attack. 

I had three pilot friends that were flying that day and I called each one. One was still on the ground, but two were in the air. I left messages for them to call me ASAP. One pilot did not reply back. His name was Jason Dahl. He was the Captain on Flight 93, which went nose down in western PA. (I had a really bad feeling come over me when they had announced on TV that a United plane had gone down in western PA.) Jason was instrumental in my training on the B-757 and 767 and also helping me to make Captain. I can't even begin to imagine what he went through on that day with being stabbed and removed from the cockpit. I know that he didn't go down without a struggle. He would have never voluntarily given up the cockpit.

I think about my friend often.


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## Meanderer (Jul 22, 2017)

oldman said:


> Thanks, SeaBreeze. We have a checklist to follow whenever an issue pops up. It's pretty much a "How To" guide. We have checklists for everything that you can and can't imagine.


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## oldman (Jul 23, 2017)

Meanderer said:


>



That's funny. I am going to send it to a few of my friends.


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