# Tipping - the great debate



## applecruncher (Aug 28, 2015)

On another site I go to, this (tipping) has been a hotly debated subject.

I usually tip restaurant servers, pizza delivery, hair stylists, and taxi drivers. The last time I stayed at a hotel I tipped the room service person. If I get good, courteous service I tip well. If not, I don’t.

I am not a cheapskate. But I feel that tipping has gotten out of hand (at least hers in the US).

Case in point:

The other day I had my carpet cleaned. They always do an excellent job, and they charge a somewhat comparatively high fee – which I don’t mind paying. The guy figured my bill on a little gizmo that looked like a smartphone. When I signed he said “sign here if you want to tip, it’s optional”. Well, duh, I KNOW tipping is optional, but obviously it’s expected. So I tipped, then I was mad at myself.  Asking for a tip leves a bad taste in my mouth. I assume those are his instructions, but they need to stop.

When I pick up take out food, there’s often a “tip jar”. Even Subway has one. I rarely tip at these places. These people are paid a wage. I don’t see why I should pay extra for them to put my food in a bag and hand it to me.

Where does it end?  Should we tip store cashiers? Bus drivers? Bank tellers? Plumbers? Police officers? I even know someone who tips the garbage collectors. Ridiculous!

The rationale is that restaurant workers, etc. are paid so little. Well, that’s not the customer’s fault. The owner should pay them more, and if necessary raise prices.

I also think that sometimes people like to brag that they always tip 20-25% or act like they're Sinatra tossing $100 bills at cocktail waitresses. In reality maybe they left a $1 tip or nothing.

I kinda think tipping should be done away with. I even know of a couple restaurants that discourage it - they have signs "No tipping, please" or "Our staff is not allowed to accept tips".

Thoughts?


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## Falcon (Aug 28, 2015)

AC,  I'm with you on this topic.  I don't go overboard; afterall, we're already paying for what we ordered.

Only time I don't mind is to a delivery person from a pizza place.

Next thing ya know, we'll find a tip jar on the operating table  in the "Emergency" room.


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## Mrs. Robinson (Aug 28, 2015)

Yes, I totally agree that it is out of hand. A few weeks ago we stopped at this farm stand where we go every summer on our way to and from camping. There was a tip jar there "to help pay for our college expenses". I`m sure Dad is paying you a fair wage to run the store,do we really need to tip you to weigh and ring up our fruits and veggies??


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## Linda (Aug 28, 2015)

Don't try tipping a policeman, you might get yourself in trouble.   I agree tipping is out of hand but I would never go out to eat at a restaurant without leaving a fair tip.  Some of the jars set up everywhere are getting to be a bit much though.


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## applecruncher (Aug 28, 2015)

> There was a tip jar there "to help pay for our college expenses".


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## applecruncher (Aug 28, 2015)

Linda said:


> Don't try tipping a policeman, you might get yourself in trouble.  I agree tipping is out of hand but I would never go out to eat at a restaurant without leaving a fair tip. Some of the jars set up everywhere are getting to be a bit much though.




Also, some people say they give the mail carrier a tip at Christmas...but there are rules about that, too. People sometime tip the UPS and Fedex people.  I've never done that.


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## RadishRose (Aug 28, 2015)

AC  I totally agree on tip jars when exchanging my money at a counter for food. No tip is needed...how else is the shop going to sell their food if nobody hands it to the customer and takes the money??? It's NOT like we are being served while we dine and cleaned up after! There is no "service" involved! 

Hairdressers who ask when taking the credit card for payment:"do you want to add something to that?" should be told off. How dare you *ask *for a tip?

 I had a lady who cut my hair for a long time open her own shop eventually. The first time I went to her shop, I gave the credit card and she had the nerve to ask me if I wanted to "add something" to the total. I told her that she, being the OWNER should not be accepting a tip in the first place, let alone ASKING for it. I never went back.

Now the CARPET CLEANER trying to arrange for a tip made my blood boil! That really takes the cake. 

I tip for meals in restaurants, salons, taxis and food delivery.  I at first tried to tip for my rare grocery delivery, but they were refused; the store won't allow it. 

If people wouldn't feed those tip jars, maybe they would go away.


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## Linda (Aug 28, 2015)

I always give my mail lady a box of chocolates for Christmas.  She is great and at 77 years old would pull into my yard and carry a box of books up to my porch cause she said they were too heavy for me!  

On a Facebook group I'm in with over 12,000 other people, one of the guys who started the group a few years ago, posted a "Go Fund Me" to help with his student loans (he is a nurse and I know he makes decent $).  He said this was a way for us to show our appreciation of all the time and effort he's put into the group, even though there are 12 administrators helping run it.  Some people left the group and others just threw a hissey fit so he took the Go Fund Me down and said it was just a "social experiment".  I didn't comment at all on that topic as I knew if I opened my mouth I'd say too much and he'd probably kick me out of the group.


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## RadishRose (Aug 28, 2015)

On the flip side.....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/239700834 Notoriously Bad Celebrity Tippers

Posted on 11/30/2009, 1:29:46 PM by big black dog


You’d think with all their money, celebrities would be good tippers. This isn’t always the case. Certain celebrities are notoriously bad tippers. Check it out:


1. Madonna - Doesn’t always leave a tip, when she does it’s a cheap one.


2. Kelly Presten – Notoriously bad tipper. Most of the time she doesn’t leave a tip at all.


3. Gwyneth Paltrow – Doesn’t leave a decent tip. It’s speculated she has trouble calculating the proper percentage.


4. Barbra Streisand – Doesn’t always tip. When she does it’s $10 for a bill of over $450. She’s very high maintenance and demanding and no one ever wants to wait on her.


5. Tobey Maguire – Doesn’t always leave a tip, and when he does it isn’t generous.


6. Bill Cosby – Once left a $3 tip on a $350 order. He probably thinks the waitstaff needs to stop taking from others and get a real job.


7. Ricki Lake – Once left a tip of $8.00 on a $142.44 bill. This after she let her young son run around the restaurant unattended – and he supposedly made a big mess.


8. Bobby Brown – Rude to wait staff, lets his kids run amuk and left a $10 gratuity on a $250 restaurant tab.


9. Sean Penn - He and three others had New Orleans waiters waiting on them hand and foot. The tip left on a $450 tab? Absolutely nothing. There are lots of instances of Sean Penn stiffing waitstaff. How many people do you think have spit in his food by now?


10. Kirsten Dunst – According to one server she’s whiny and smells bad. Left nothing behind after racking up a $223 bill.


11. Dan Marino – Wouldn’t talk to server directly, had to have a member of his entourage handle it. Tipped $10 on $210.


12. David Lee Roth – Is known to be demanding and send food back. Tips 10%.


13. Duane “Dog the Bounty Hunter” Chapman – He and his wife are considered to be very high maintenance. They expect the VIP treatment and only tip %5. At a TGI Fridays in Waikiki they paid $10 for a $250 tab.


14. Rupert Everett – Listed as one of the worst tippers ever.


15. David Byrne – The Talking Heads frontman is considered one of the worst tippers ever because he doesn’t leave anything, ever.


16. Molly Ringwald – Bar tab was the equivalent of twenty-five cents for each round of drinks her large entourage consumed.


17. Diddy – Left a $40 tip for his meal – a dinner for 15 people.


18. Richard Dreyfuss – Bad tipper and high maintenance “whiny” client.


19. Michael Moore – Once left less than $20 on a bill totally $452.52.


20. Jesse Jackson – Left $20 on a $228 tab.


21. John Kerry – Left $20 on a tab of over $700!


22. Britney Spears – Once tipped a valet by dropping change on the ground and telling him “there’s your tip”. Also paid a $26 tip on a $500 tab.


23. Tiger Woods – Doesn’t tip because he says he doesn’t carry cash.


24. Usher - Never tips and always tries to get someone else to pick up the bill.


25. Rachel Ray – Tipped $1 on a $10 tab. Probably didn’t want to go under her $40 a day allowance.


26. Victoria Beckham and Katie Holmes – Dined together in an upscale restaurant and didn’t leave a tip.


27. Tom Green – Once left $15 on a $175 tab.


28. Paul McCartney – Once left a restaurant too drunk to leave a tip.


29. Regis – Once left cruise staff a $60 tip for an entire week’s worth of personal service. His wife is said to be very high maintenance and the ship’s crew was happy when she left two days early.


30. Marty Stuart – Leaves 7% – his wife is very demanding.


31. Don Henley – Very demanding, keeps staff members on their toes, tips 15%.


32. D’Angelo – Once left $7.00 on a $250 tab. The tab should have been over $500, mind you, but the r&b singer and his entourage nagged until they got a discount . 33. Mariah Carey – Once had her people call ahead to a restaurant to let them know she was arriving with a very large party. The restaurant stayed open late, and Mariah and crew were very diva-ish with their demands. Despite keeping staffers jumping and a high tab, no one left a tip.


34. Marion Jones – Left $3 on a $45 tab.


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## Bullie76 (Aug 28, 2015)

Agree, should not be tipping on carpet cleaning. I once had a handyman do stuff so cheap, I paid him more because he was simply cutting himself to close. The guy helped me buy a new water heater using his truck, he did all the work replacing it and agreed to haul off the old one. Took at least 2 hours to do the job. He said if I paid him $50 cash he would be happy. I gave $75 and that was still low. But he was thrilled and  I was happy.


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## Jackie22 (Aug 28, 2015)

I also over pay my handyman, he and his wife go over and above what I ask them to do and I don't want to lose them.

I tip waiters and the people that do my nails and that is about it....don't like the fund me accounts either.


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## applecruncher (Aug 28, 2015)

I’ve heard/read stories about waiters chasing people down in parking lots because they didn’t leave a tip or they left a very small tip.  That’s ridiculous.  However, chasing people who “dine & dash” (don’t pay the bill) is something different – that’s theft of services and the person can be arrested for it.


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## hollydolly (Aug 28, 2015)

I'll be the first Brit to post on this thread...our tipping system here is very different to the USA particularly with waiting service because in this country customer service employees get paid a proper wage and don't have to rely on tips to make a living wage! 

That said most people will tip 10% if the service was good anyway..but usually no more than that!

Hairdressers often get a tip , perhaps 5% of the bill but it's not expected...tbf they are already very expensive anyway..

Cab drivers, often will be given a tip, it's just kind of expected, but if a cabbie takes me the long way around to get to a destination then he gets no tip..at all. London cabbies are well known throughout the world as people who will happily discuss anything with you merrily chatting away if you're a visitor to the capital , usually very cheerful,  ..but the fares are very expensive already!

I always tip the postman at Christmas after all regardless of the fact he gets paid a salary he's out in all weathers bringing the post door to door..( in the Uk most of us have letter boxes in our front door) so he's not just dropping off stuff in mail boxes at the end of a drive he literally has to walk miles up and down peoples' drives and long roads sometimes .. 

In the Commonwealth countries the day after Christmas is called Boxing day and it's long been a tradition to give ''gifts''  long ago known as ''Boxes'' to tradesman for work carried out through the year. see here.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day

Clearly most of us don't have ''staff' any more but the tradition lives on for many like the aforesaid postie, the hairdresser, the dog walker, the paperboy etc..

As for those tip jars everywhere, I just ignore them...

My husband is the one who is the big tipper in this house..he will tip for everything especially in a restaurant regardless of the quality of the service ...and if we've had particularly  poor service I've been known to just take the money straight back off the tray behind his back  as we leave the table..


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## Lon (Aug 28, 2015)

Having lived in New Zealand with many trips over To Australia I always appreciated that Tipping was not a custom. Their thinking, and rightly so, is to pay a decent wage. On the flip side, service is not near as good as in the states. No one hustles to get that tip.


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## hollydolly (Aug 28, 2015)

Lon said:


> Having lived in New Zealand with many trips over To Australia I always appreciated that Tipping was not a custom. Their thinking, and rightly so, is to pay a decent wage. *On the flip side, service is not near as good as in the states. No one hustles to get that tip*.



That is absolutely true, I've heard the same from many American friends that our  customer service in the whole of Europe and Australia and NZ  is very poor compared to the USA generally speaking...and they all put it down to the fact that no-one has to work hard  for a tip here!!


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## Kadee (Aug 28, 2015)

To my knowledge no such thing in Aus..However I have seen a few tipping jars sitting on the counter of some mini supermarkets (711) and hotels where we have had a counter lunch .....We don't dine in expencive eating places ,so I can't comment on those  business's if they have a tipping service. ...Correct me if im wrong ...but is tipping a form of wages ?


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## applecruncher (Aug 28, 2015)

Kadee, no tipping isn't wages. It's a gratuity, extra money because of good service. It can be a little or a lot, but standard is about 15% of the bill. A $1 tip on a $50 meal would be considered an insult.

Great new pic, btw.


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Aug 28, 2015)

When we eat out, will tip the customary 15% to 20%.  Why?  Well, the servers in most restaurants aren't even paid minimum wage and their tips are what keep them going.  I rarely tip elsewhere.  
I stay in motels somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 nights/year.  I never tip the maid service.  I feel these folks are earning a wage and need to do a good job or find work elsewhere.  I demand excellence from the crews I oversee.  Our clients have paid huge sums of money for the project we design and deliver.  The contractors employees don't get tips.  Why should hotel maids, carpet cleaners, etc.
For quite a few years, I went to a barber who was nearing 80 years old.  He still only charged $6 for a haircut.  I usually left him $10, simply because I felt he was undercharging for the job he did.  For those who charge $15 for a haircut... they get the $15 and no more!!!


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## Warrigal (Aug 28, 2015)

Lon said:


> Having lived in New Zealand with many trips over To Australia I always appreciated that Tipping was not a custom. Their thinking, and rightly so, is to pay a decent wage. On the flip side, service is not near as good as in the states. No one hustles to get that tip.



Yes Lon, it's a very different culture over here. On Thursday I had to catch a taxi home and the meter was $47.50. That would have included GST (tax) of $4.30.  There was no need to offer a tip at all but it is good form to hand over $50 while muttering "never mind about the change". He was happy with that.

One reason we don't want tipping to become an essential part of a person's earnings is that we do expect people to be paid proper wages. As for service, like everything else over here, it is  a lot more casual but the friendliness is genuine, not driven by the need to suck up for a tip. I like that. My taxi driver and I had a great conversation all the way home and I sat in the front seat, as is our custom over here. We're equals after all.


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## Ameriscot (Aug 28, 2015)

My hairdresser gets a £5 tip for a £25 wash cut style. Postman gets a gift of whisky and biscuits. He has to walk up our long gravel drive to put our post in the letter slot in the door or if too big puts it between the two front doors.

I tip no more than 10% to wait staff in UK and 20% in US.


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## applecruncher (Aug 28, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Yes Lon, it's a very different culture over here. On Thursday I had to catch a taxi home and the meter was $47.50. That would have included GST (tax) of $4.30. There was no need to offer a tip at all but it is good form to hand over $50 while muttering "never mind about the change". He was happy with that.
> 
> One reason we don't want tipping to become an essential part of a person's earnings is that we do expect people to be paid proper wages. As for service, like everything else over here, it is a lot more casual but the friendliness is genuine, not driven by the need to suck up for a tip. I like that. My taxi driver and I had a great conversation all the way home *and I sat in the front seat, as is our custom over here*. We're equals after all.



(bolded) Interesting, and unusual (here).


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## AprilT (Aug 28, 2015)

Well at least now, I can stop putting money in those tip jars.   I sometimes felt a little guilty when I don't and they're staring me in the face when they give me the change.  Most times I drop the loose change in the jar, but, it really has gotten out of hand. They have it here in the bakeries and the pizza shops as well and I've dropped change in the jars at each places, NO MORE!  They have them nearly everywhere these days most all the coffee shops like Starbucks.  I generally tip 20% for most things a little more if service is exceptionally good.  Like someone else, I did have a salon owner expect a tip, I did give it to her as she had set an appointment special hours for me, but still, I think she took tips in general, I recall a nail salon owner taking the tips as well, guess I didn't think too too much of it at the time, just thought it was a little odd though they seemed in a way to expect it.  I am completely perturbed about the jar thing though.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 28, 2015)

I tip when I eat out at restaurants, when I get a haircut, and when I have food delivered.  I never put money in those tip jars if I'm going in myself for a take-out order.

  I've only used a carpet cleaning service a few times in my life, and their prices were high enough where I didn't feel compelled to tip.  I had some trees removed/trimmed and I did tip those guys, because they did a good job, were on time, were organized and did the job in a very reasonable amount of time (+ reasonable price), and cleaned up afterward very well.  I haven't taken a cab in decades, but I always tipped cab drivers.


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## oldman (Aug 29, 2015)

I guess that I am in the minority here. I enjoy tipping and have only stiffed a few servers because of really, really poor service. I just returned from a trip to London. I was told that I should not tip because a service charge is added to my bill. For the most part, it was, but I was also told that if I receive exemplary service that I should lay down maybe an extra pound or two. I left a ten pound note for our chambermaid. I never met the person that took care of our room, but they did one heck of a job, including evening turn down service, closing of the drapes and turning the AC to "overnight" and with coffee and biscuits being delivered right on cue at 8 o'clock as ordered. I also tipped the wait staff at my hotel. We had breakfast, which was included in my prepaid bill, but the service was above and beyond what I receive here in the U.S. The breakfast was also self-serve as it was buffet style. I still can't get over baked beans for breakfast and fish, as well. I definitely plan on returning to London and staying at the same hotel, which is something I wouldn't have said prior to going.

I also tipped the driver of our personal car from and back to the airport. The gentleman that took us from the airport to the hotel was a wealth of knowledge, pointing out different sites and also explaining English culture to us, so we were pretty well prepared for interacting with our hosts. Just a great all around experience. 

I have to disagree with Lon that in England no one hustles for a tip. I never expect anyone to bust their buns to serve me, but I don't expect to be over-looked either. I had an absolute great time and received very good service everywhere I went. One thing I liked best was that I was allowed to look around in the stores without being "attacked" by a salesperson trying to sell me something. 

Check this out. A dog made out of sand on the sidewalk in a shopping district. Cool, huh?


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## hollydolly (Aug 29, 2015)

Oldman....slightly Off topic...but really?...you don't have beans or fish on breakfast menu's in the USA? 

 Baked beans are an integral part of a British breakfast...not that everyone likes them of course...and fish definitely yes...but not something most people would have every day , but more usually in restaurants and hotels, and perhaps on a Sunday morning for  brunch!!


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## oldman (Aug 29, 2015)

Fish for Sunday brunch, yes, but baked beans for breakfast? Not in my neck of the woods.


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## applecruncher (Aug 29, 2015)

Holly I have never heard of anyone having baked beans or fish for breakfast until now.


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## hollydolly (Aug 29, 2015)

It just goes to show again...2 countries separated by a common language..and common but different cuisine.. 

This is a traditional English breakfast...



This is eggs Benedict with smoked haddock which many people will have .. for breakfast  ( we do) more  especially in restaurants or hotels , and is absolutely delicious






This is smoked haddock fillets  with poached egg..a very common way to have breakfast for many people especially in Scotland..where it's called Finann haddie  and poached in milk for breakfast

...often the haddock will be substituted with smoked or unsmoked kippers..

...and there's loads and loads of other breakfast fish variations..


Incidentally at what meal do you folks in the US eat baked beans?


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## Kadee (Aug 29, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> It just goes to show again...2 countries separated by a common language..and common but different cuisine..
> 
> This is a traditional English breakfast...
> 
> ...


Holly I know lots of people in Whyalla , South Australia which has many residents in its 20.000 + population who immigrated from England to work in the steel smelters/ ship building  in Whyalla ...( hubby's first Mrs was from Whyalla but was born in England ) ..one couple who live there are people who run a dance we go to when we visit Whyalla , they eat a breakfast just as you described as a traditional English breakfast, we know other couples who eat baked beans and eggs together  for lunch or tea as well ,I like BB I buy small tins as hubby won't eat them people tend to look down their noses at the mention of BB but I believe they contain fairly good fibre , but they are one of the foods that are high in sugar ( not the beans but the tomato sauce they are in) Oh I know you asked what meal US residents eat BB ,but I'll put in when this Aussie eats them Almost always lunch , I Eat then cold straight out of the can after tipping out most of the tomato sauce


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## hollydolly (Aug 29, 2015)

People also eat them for lunch and dinner here too Kadee.. hot..and on toast for a snack!!

I don't know why people look down on Baked beans ( have to say they're not my favourite but I do eat them occasionally)...but they are very high in fibre, and protein, and you can buy the low sugar variety...a quick and nutritious low fat snack!!


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## Kadee (Aug 29, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> People also eat them for lunch and dinner here too Kadee.. hot..and on toast for a snack!!
> 
> I don't know why people look down on Baked beans ( have to say they're not my favourite but I do eat them occasionally)...but they are very high in fibre, and protein, and you can buy the low sugar variety...a quick and nutritious low fat snack!!


I have never seen a low sugar variety in Aus , the brand I buy ( SPC) has low salt............ I'm home again Holly yes it's. Still cold sitting here in my fleecy PJ blanket over my legs ..( it's 8 pm here) Oh well we will look forward to our month up in Qld next year


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## hollydolly (Aug 29, 2015)

yes we have low salt and sugar brands.. they taste better..glad your home safely shame about the cold....better get off this subject we've strayed waaay off topic.. we'll get told off by the OP..


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## applecruncher (Aug 29, 2015)

fftopic:  :hit:


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## Underock1 (Aug 29, 2015)

I agree with all of the above. No tip jars, thank you. My daughter-in-law was a waitress though, and they don't get paid well. Most who work as waiters and waitresses, ( excluding exclusive restaurants ), really need the money. I think its one of the most under rated jobs around. Taking an order from eight people talking at the same time, dealing with kids, the handicapped, and just plain obnoxious people who think part of the eating out experience is abusing the waitress. I would never do it. So unless service is really bad, I do tip waiters and waitresses 20%.


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## tnthomas (Aug 29, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> I tip when I eat out at restaurants, when I get a haircut, and when I have food delivered.  I never put money in those tip jars if I'm going in myself for a take-out order.



'tis what I do as well.


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## Robusta (Aug 30, 2015)

I tip at restaurants depending on the quality of service. I do not visit complaints about the kitchen to the wait staff. My wife is a cheapskate we  often disagree on the proper amount.
  I never not tip, if I get poor service leaving no tip may be misinterpreted as just forgetting.  For poor service I will leave an extremely paltry tip of an amount that can not be mistaken for anything other than an insult. I will also make a note on the bill.
  I will never tip the owner of a business ,but will the employees of certain service providers if their actions are exemplary.
 I was a letter carrier for many years and greatly appreciated Holiday gratuities,be they cash,liquor or trinkets. Most of the baked goods I received were discarded as I did not know the conditions they were prepared under!  While I provided good service to the letter for all my customers,I went above and beyond for the few that expressed their appreciation


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## Bobw235 (Aug 30, 2015)

Interesting thread.  I tend not to leave tips in "tip jars", but have been known to make an exception for the young men/women who are clearly on summer jobs at the local ice cream stand.  But I never tip when I go for fast food and see it on the credit card slip.  I tend to tip 20% for servers in a restaurant if I get good service and it's rare that I don't leave less than 15% unless the server has been neglectful.  I used to go for deep tissue massage and aways tipped the woman because she always went over and above the allotted time.  I always tip the woman who cuts my hair.  That's about it.  My wife gives a Christmas gratuity to the woman who cleans our house.  I disagree with her; it's the woman's company, but my wife insists and it's not worth fighting about.


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## applecruncher (Aug 30, 2015)

Remember “carry-out boys” at the supermarket? In high school I was cashier simmer and some weekends, and the guys (and then they were always guys) who bagged the groceries asked if the customer wanted a carry out. Well, one time the guy working my lane came back and said the man had given him 50-cent tip (which in today’s $$ would be $3.50 USD). Not bad, but I’ve never heard of tipping baggers since then, and rarely do I see a carry-out. Exceptions are if the customer is very elderly or disabled - by that I mean those are the people who are given assistance, but I doubt that they tip.


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## mitchezz (Aug 30, 2015)

Where I live many of the stores have charity jars near the till where people place their change. I tip cabbies, food deliverers and waiters but never tip in fast food places .I don't know if it's still the case but when I was in Fiji tipping was illegal. One night we got sick of waiting for the bar guy to bring back our coin change and left. We got chased down the street and given a very stern lecture as our change was handed over.


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## applecruncher (Aug 30, 2015)

I had a friend who used to live in NYC/Manhattan.  She was absolutely NUTS about tipping.  When I went to visit her and we ate out or took a taxi, she would be sure to tell me “you have to tip at least XXX”. I’m not a cheapskate and I didn’t grown up in a cave…..so I finally said “yeah, I know about tipping”.


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## applecruncher (Dec 5, 2015)

Another “resurrection” thread.

Just returned from lunch with a friend – my treat in exchange for a favor. Great food, good service, they didn’t rush us.  I left a nice tip.

Friend was telling me about how she stopped ordering pizzas from a particular place for delivery. Why? Because when she calls in the order and tells them she’s paying by credit card the person on the phone asks “Would you like to include a tip?”  I think that’s presumptuous and inappropriate.


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## Cookie (Dec 5, 2015)

Credit card of cash, everyone knows you always tip the pizza delivery person.


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## applecruncher (Dec 5, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Credit card of cash, everyone knows you always tip the pizza delivery person.



Well, I don't know who you mean by "everyone". I usually tip pizza delivery people. Some on here said they don't, which is their prerogative. And if the delivery is slow and the delivery person is nasty,I they wouldn't get a tip from me. _But you missed the point _- asking for a tip is rude. Asking for a tip before service is rendered is rude and downright tacky.


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## Cookie (Dec 5, 2015)

When placing a phone pizza order the charge is calculated and tip can be included then and there.  I see nothing wrong with the phone person asking if a customer wants to include a tip at that point.  That's a pretty poor excuse for welching out of giving a tip and taking needless offense.  And, yes, if someone doesn't know that pizza delivery people deserve a tip (unless of course something goes horribly wrong) since they get paid so little, then I must wonder what hell and gone boondocks they are from.


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## hollydolly (Dec 5, 2015)

I don't tip Pizza delivery because I never order Pizza... ...but I do tip any take away delivery drivers ( Chinese/Indian) etc ...usually I just round it up to the nearest pound...or if it's already say £10 I'll give £2 on top...I've never had a surly delivery driver, but if I did the only tip he'd get from me would be to smarten up his attitude.. :lol:


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## Shalimar (Dec 5, 2015)

I always tip unless the service is poor or server/delivery person rude. My son worked in the University cafeteria for years in order to afford university.  I am well aware of how little money servers make.There is nothing wrong with the pizza phone 

person politely  asking whether or not the customer wishes to include a tip. The customer always has the right of refusal. Servers/delivery people both deserve and need tips due to the paucity of wages they receive. IMHO, Cookie did not miss the 

point, any tackiness in this instance would be owned by the customer. Certainly taking offence is not warranted in this instance, unless the persons concerned are truly unaware of the realities surrounding the working poor.


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## Manatee (Dec 5, 2015)

Once in a hotel dining room the service for my breakfast was so bad that I left 2 pennies as a tip.

My coworker came in immediately after I left.  When we met later and talked about it, he said he had never had such good service there.  I think they got the message.


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## Karen99 (Dec 5, 2015)

I am a generous tipper most of the time in restaurants.  At Christmas I gift the mail carrier with a gift certificate and the gardeners get a card and cash.  I sometimes give sealed boxes of nice chocolates as well.


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## Shalimar (Dec 5, 2015)

Oooh Karen, I live for chocolates. May I please be one of your delivery persons?


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## fureverywhere (Dec 5, 2015)

The guy who does my pedicures gets $10 because he's an angel. The rest get $5 for mani or pedi. My husband figures out the tip when we eat out...I have no idea how to figure %.


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## applecruncher (Dec 15, 2018)

:bump:


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## applecruncher (Dec 15, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> AC  I totally agree on tip jars when exchanging my money at a counter for food. No tip is needed...how else is the shop going to sell their food if nobody hands it to the customer and takes the money??? It's NOT like we are being served while we dine and cleaned up after! There is no "service" involved!
> 
> Hairdressers who ask when taking the credit card for payment:"do you want to add something to that?" should be told off. How dare you *ask *for a tip?
> 
> ...




The best post in this thread.  :clap:


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## Manatee (Dec 15, 2018)

It really feels awkward to tip someone that probably makes more than you do.  Airport baggage checkers.


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## Sunny (Dec 16, 2018)

The restaurants within my retirement community always add a 15% charge to the bill, for the "tip."  Some people add a little bit to that, if they were very pleased with the service.   Is it really
any different from just boosting their prices by 15%?  I don't see how that can really be called a tip. A tip is supposed to be optional.


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## Butterfly (Dec 16, 2018)

I tip in restaurants and also tip the lady who cuts my hair.

I never have the same mailman twice, it seems, so I don't tip them.


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## applecruncher (Jan 6, 2019)

It would never occur to me to tip a mailman/woman....
or a police officer, judge, etc.


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## Gary O' (Jan 6, 2019)

I consider myself a good tipper…customary percentage be damned 

If I get good service in an eatery, I’m laying out some good cash
If I get lousy service, I become forgetful….or lay out pennies

As far as other services, for me, it’s a judgement call

Popped a tire on a curb awhile back
Stopped at a tire store
The kid came running out, replaced the tire with a new one, changed out the spare and bade me a nice day…sweat pouring off his chin
I offered him a tip
Wouldn’t take it, company policy
I stuffed it in his shirt pocket ‘well then, consider it a gift’

I’ve done this with other services, can’t remember what, but if they don’t have a shirt pocket,
 or they’re of the fairer gender, there’s a hand shake, and a subtle monetary exchange with a folded up twenty or two

It’s a feel good for me, thinking it puts a spring in their step

And, well, it’s a reward
For good service

Anybody that suggests a tip?
I give ’em a tip…… of advice


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## Sassycakes (Jan 6, 2019)

We always tip at resturants and I also give a gift to our mailman. I don't put anything in a tip jar because I am not sure where the money will really go to.


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## 911 (Jan 6, 2019)

I still remember the time I was called to see the lady at such and such address about an intrusion. I sped to get to her home where I found this lady, who was a least 80 y/o answering the door. She told me that her smoke detector has been going off since 4 that morning. It was now 6:30. I just took out the battery and told her that it must be defective because I couldn’t find any smoke in the house.

Before, I left her home, she offered me a tip. I told her that the state police does not accept tips. She says, “Oh, how nice.” Then, she all but demanded that I take a bag of her cookies, which I reluctantly accepted. I thought that the boys on day shift will enjoy them with their coffee.


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## Trade (Jan 6, 2019)

I won't tip less than 15% in a restaurant no matter how bad the service is. Well I suppose if the server cussed me out and threw a drink in my face I'd probably stiff them, but nothing like that has ever happened. My mother worked as a waitress to support us when I was a kid and I know the kind of crap they have to deal with. Not to mention the restaurants take advantage of a loophole in the law to pay them way less than even minimum wage. I'm surprised more of them aren't surly. And for average and above service I'll go to 20-25%. 

A couple of weeks ago I took my old  computer in to a repair shop. After they checked it out the lady who runs the shop called me and said she recommended I just write this one off because it wasn't worth the $372 it would cost to fix it. When I asked her what I owed her she said " no charge". When I went to pick it up because I want to pull the hard drive out before I recycle it I asked again if I owed her anything and she said no. So I said well at least let me pay for your lunch and I handed her a $20 bill which she accepted. 

On the other hand I think the lawnmower shop is gouging me when they said it's going to take another $120 bucks to fix my mower over and above the $85 that I had to give them up front to cover the basic annual servicing. Normally I pay things like this in cash. But since I feel I'm being gouged  when I go to pay that additional $120 I'm going to throw down my credit card so that they get stuck with the 2.5-3 percent processing fee. It's a small gesture but it will make me feel better. 

I feel the same way about the dentist. $115 bucks for a routine cleaning and another $50 for X-Rays. $165 bucks total. What a racket. No cash for you. You get the credit card too. As I said, I prefer to pay for most things in cash. But if I feel like I'm being gouged I pay with my credit card to punish them.


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## Warrigal (Jan 6, 2019)

I would hate to live in a culture where tipping is required. It seems so complicated and contentious. I believe in a system where all workers are paid a living wage with overtime rates and other benefits etc. Somehow I feel like I am dispensing charity when I am faced with the prospect of tipping someone. I would prefer to pay a higher price for goods and services if it means better wages and conditions for the workers.

When I am on a cruise I am very aware that the staff are probably poorly paid and they are certainly away from their homes and families for long stretches and I am very happy to show my appreciation with a monetary gift and a thank you note.


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## applecruncher (Jan 6, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> I would hate to live in a culture where tipping is required. It seems so complicated and contentious. I believe in a system where all workers are paid a living wage with overtime rates and other benefits etc. Somehow I feel like I am dispensing charity when I am faced with the prospect of tipping someone. I would prefer to pay a higher price for goods and services if it means better wages and conditions for the workers.
> 
> When I am on a cruise I am very aware that the staff are probably poorly paid and they are certainly away from their homes and families for long stretches and I am very happy to show my appreciation with a monetary gift and a thank you note.



Tipping is not required in the US - it's optional.


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## Warrigal (Jan 6, 2019)

Agreed, but if nobody tipped, how would some workers be able to pay their bills. 
My point is that their very living depends on this optional custom.


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## treeguy64 (Jan 6, 2019)

I tip if I get good service. I'm a good tipper, having been in the trenches, myself.


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## Gary O' (Jan 6, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> Agreed, but if nobody tipped, how would some workers be able to pay their bills.
> My point is that their very living depends on this optional custom.



It’s incentive….to bust yer butt in providing good service

sometimes called earning it


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## applecruncher (Jan 6, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> Agreed, but if nobody tipped, how would some workers be able to pay their bills.
> My point is that their very living depends on this optional custom.



You seem to think restaurant worker wages are the responsibility of customers. You are wrong - they are NOT.  My point is that too many people are subsidizing cheapskate restaurant owners.

Furthermore, a lot of workers are underpaid, but they don't get tips nor are they permitted to carry around a tip.jar.


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## Warrigal (Jan 6, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> You seem to think restaurant worker wages are the responsibility of customers. You are wrong - they are NOT.  My point is that too many people are subsidizing cheapskate restaurant owners.
> 
> Furthermore, a lot of workers are underpaid, but they don't get tips nor are they permitted to carry around a tip.jar.



Those are my points too. Underpaid workers should not be underpaid. Minimum wage for adults should be a living wage.

As I understand the history of gratuities, it was a European custom, particularly in France. Waiters in high class restaurants were not paid at all. In fact they actually paid the restaurant owner for the position which was very lucrative. They would receive generous gratuities  for showing a customer to a good table and for ensuring that his dining experience was pleasurable and that his guests were impressed by his status.

Because of the close association of between republican USA and republican France I assume that this culture of tipping in service vocations became the norm. It never became the norm in Australia which grew out of an English penal colony. Australia in the late C19 and most of C20 was strongly unionised and aggressively egalitarian. Those days are disappearing but we still find tipping problematic. We are OK with leaving the change for the waitress or barmaid but very awkward about working out the appropriate size of a tip for service in other situations. We are fish out of water and very ill at ease.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jan 6, 2019)

I don't like our tipping system. I believe it is demeaning, and arbitrary. Your server is not some peasant fawning for tips. A person's livelihood  should not depend  partially on the generosity of others. I would abolish this custom, if I were King.


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## Trade (Jan 6, 2019)

Warrigal said:


> I believe in a system where all workers are paid a living wage with overtime rates and other benefits etc. Somehow I feel like I am dispensing charity when I am faced with the prospect of tipping someone. I would prefer to pay a higher price for goods and services if it means better wages and conditions for the workers.



That's exactly how I feel about it.


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## Trade (Jan 6, 2019)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I don't like our tipping system. I believe it is demeaning, and arbitrary. Your server is not some peasant fawning for tips. A person's livelihood  should not depend  partially on the generosity of others. I would abolish this custom, if I were King.



Count me in on that too.


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## Trade (Jan 6, 2019)

I believe that if you get service period, even if it's poor, you should tip a minimum of 15%.  

In fact, I will go so far as to say that anyone that doesn't tip at least that much in a full service restaurant is an asshole.


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## Gary O' (Jan 6, 2019)

Trade said:


> I believe that if you get service period, even if it's poor, you should tip a minimum of 15%.
> 
> In fact, I will go so far as to say that anyone that doesn't tip at least that much in a full service restaurant is an asshole.





HAH! Love a strong opinion.
This asshole just can’t spring for a tip for bad service.

It’s rare, but it’s there…when business is slow, and there’s no excuse, not even a shift change

(but, I do know what yer sayin’, and cheers to that)


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## Trade (Jan 7, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> HAH! Love a strong opinion.
> This asshole just can’t spring for a tip for bad service.
> 
> It’s rare, but it’s there…when business is slow, and there’s no excuse, not even a shift change
> ...



Here in Alabama the restaurants get away with paying their servers $2.13 an hour. 

I think that is absolutely criminal. 

So if I get served at all I will tip a minimum of 15%.


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## Gary O' (Jan 7, 2019)

Trade said:


> Here in Alabama the restaurants get away with paying their servers $2.13 an hour.
> 
> I think that is absolutely criminal.
> 
> So if I get served at all I will tip a minimum of 15%.


$2.13/hr *IS* criminal  

Got this from the link below;

_Minimum wage laws protect all employees, whether or not they receive tips. 
Employees are entitled to earn the full minimum wage per hour as set by federal or state law.
 Currently, the federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour.
 The minimum wage in Oregon is currently $10.25, but it will increase to $10.75 on July 1, 2018_


https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/oregon-laws-tipped-employees.html

I consider the tip custom a bit beneath humanity
But will rigorously lay out cash for good service, whether in the form of tip or extra payment for services
I've held to extra cash lay out as more bonus than anything else, as it's been due to gratefulness, or outright earning, not some custom

But $2.13/hr? 
I'm now a bit more educated


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## applecruncher (Jan 7, 2019)

_*Re: restaurant servers in Alabama
This means that Alabama employers can pay as little as $2.13 an hour, as long as the employee earns enough in tips to add up to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. However, if you don't earn at least $5.12 an hour in tips, your employer must pay you the difference.

The average server in Alabama earns $10.81/hr.
*_https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Server-Salaries,-Alabama

_*In Ohio:

**Ohio allows employers to take a tip credit of 50%. This means employers may pay employees as little as $4.15 an hour for 2018, as long as the employees earn enough in tips to bring their total hourly wage up to at least the state minimum.

In Caifornia:

**California treats its servers differently than most states in the Union: it is one of seven states that pays tipped employees the state minimum wage, $9 per hour, instead of the absurdly low federal minimum of $2.13 for tipped employees. ...Tipped employees' hourly minimum would be required to remain at $9.*_


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## Trade (Jan 7, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> _*Re: restaurant servers in Alabama
> This means that Alabama employers can pay as little as $2.13 an hour, as long as the employee earns enough in tips to add up to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. However, if you don't earn at least $5.12 an hour in tips, your employer must pay you the difference.
> 
> The average server in Alabama earns $10.81/hr.
> ...



Thanks for posting this. 

I found out that the average server at my favorite eating out place, Cracker Barrel, makes $18,791 a year. That's about enough to barely survive if you are a single person living at home in your parents basement. But since most houses here don't have basements I guess you're screwed.


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## applecruncher (Jan 8, 2019)

Tipping in the US is THE biggest scam most likely started by restaurant owners as they are the ones who keep more money in their pockets while customers/diners pay generously to their employees to do their job. 

I'm a decent tipper most of the time, but I don't reward bad service.


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## Tommy (Jan 8, 2019)

What an interesting thread!

Of course, if there was no tipping the average total cost of a meal would still be the same, as would the average total income of servers. No investor is going to risk investment in a business if they don't believe they can get at least a reasonable return.  And in these times of high employment, no employee is going to take/stay with a job if they don't believe the compensation is worth the effort required and there are better options.

I've seen too many people scrape together everything they could to start a restaurant, work their hearts out, appear to do everything right, and then end up beaten and bankrupt.  On the other hand, my sister is a life-long career waitress and has no complaints.  She could have chosen many other more lucrative career paths, but she loves her job and does it very well.

For the record, I normally tip 20% (rounded up) and more for breakfast.  If the service is particularly poor, I tip less or (rarely) not at all.  I also tip barbers, hotel staff, and taxi drivers, but rarely anyone else.


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## applecruncher (Dec 18, 2019)

Time for a bump.


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## Lethe200 (Dec 18, 2019)

oldman, you and me both. My mother was a widow w/3 kids, no business skills, and worked two waitressing jobs 5 days a week to support us. My spouse worked as a waiter going through culinary school; if it weren't for tips he was earning $1.85/hr when minimum wage was $5.75. 

Waiters/waitresses are paid on a different scale than standard minimum wages. And the IRS ASSUMES people tip, so they are taxed between 8-21% on their income, even if ten percent of the customers stiff them or leave 5-10% tips.

We tip well unless service is below par. Small business jobs are the true lifeblood of a community, and that money going through the local economy has been proven to generate genuine results that benefit all of us.


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## oldman (Dec 19, 2019)

I know that many of our flight attendants (F/A) have been offered tips. United forbids their F/A's from receiving a tip, unless the customer demands that they accept it. As a pilot, I have also been offered tips. On one trip, I was flying from Las Vegas to New York and one of the passengers made the comment that he had a very lucrative trip. He offered me a $100.00 bill upon his departure from the plane, but I refused it. He was surprised and asked me how much did I earn per hour. I politely told him that we were not permitted to discuss salaries.


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