# Do You Ever See Elderly People Being Labeled As Grouchy or Nasty, But They Are Really Nice People?



## SeaBreeze (Apr 11, 2015)

I think a lot of folks do this, they see someone who is older, perhaps suffering with health problems or lonely, and they label them as being crabby, nasty or grouchy.  I think if I would spend a little time with any folks like that, I can soon bring out some joy and get them smiling again.  Here's a touching poem that comes to mind.  http://www.pennyparker2.com/crabbit.html

Who is really inside?When an old lady died in the geriatric ward of a hospital in England, it appeared she had left nothing of value.
The nurse, packing up her possessions, found this poem.  The quality so impressed the staff that copies were distributed to all the nurses in the hospital.
This poem then later appeared in the Christmas edition of "Beacon House News," a magazine of the Northern Ireland Mental Health Association.  This was the Lady's bequest for posterity.​










What do you see nurse, 
What do you see?
What are you thinking 
When you look at me?

A crabbit old woman, 
Not very wise,
Uncertain of habit 
With far away eyes.

Who dribbles her food 
And makes no reply;
Then you say in a loud voice,
"I do wish you'd try."

Who seems not to notice 
The things that you do,
And forever is losing 
A stocking or shoe.

Unresisting or not,
Lets you do as you will;
With bathing or feeding, 
The long day to fill.
Is that what you're thinking, 
Is that what you see?

Then open your eyes nurse,
You're not looking at me.
I'll tell you who I am, 
As I sit here so still,
As I move at your bidding,
As I eat at your will.

I'm a small child of ten ...
With a father and mother,
And brothers and sisters 
Who love one another.






A girl of sixteen,
With wings on her feet;
Dreaming that soon, 
A lover she'll meet.

A bride soon at twenty ...
My heart gives a leap;
Remembering the vows 
That I promised to keep.

At twenty-five,
I have young of my own,
Who need me to build 
A secure and happy home.






A woman of thirty,
My young now grow fast,
Bound together with ties 
That forever should last.

At forty, my young ones 
Have grown up and gone;
But my man is beside me 
To see I don't mourn.

At fifty, once more ...
Babies play 'round my knees;
Again we know children, 
My loved ones and me.






Dark days are upon me, 
My husband is dead ...
I look at the future, 
I shudder with dread;
For my young are all rearing,
Young of their own,
And I think of the years 
And the love I have known.

I am an old woman now, 
Nature is cruel,
‘Tis her jest to make old age 
Look like a fool.

The body, it crumbles,
Grace and vigor depart,
There is now a stone 
Where I once had a heart.






But inside this old carcass, 
A young girl still dwells,
And now and again 
My battered heart swells.

I remember the joys, 
I remember the pain,
And I'm loving and living 
Life over again.
I think of the years ...
All too few, gone too fast,
And accept the stark fact 
That nothing can last.

So open your eyes nurses,
Open and see ...
Not a "Crabbit Old Woman,"
Look closer ... see "Me."

~ Phyllis McCormack ~


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## Bullie76 (Apr 11, 2015)

Most people become a little more grouchy with age. Probably due to not feeling as well as when we were young. I'm at my vacation condo this week and it just happens to be spring break for kids in the area. The noise level is much higher than normal, but I have kept my tongue in check as I do not want to be labled as that 'grouchy' old man. Next year I will avoid this week like the plague.


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## Josiah (Apr 11, 2015)

Very moving SeaBreeze. I visit a nursing home every day and I try to reach out to the patients. Most of the staff are very compassionate.


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## DoItMyself (Apr 11, 2015)

Yes.  A good friend who passed last summer was a crusty old curmudgeon, but once you knew how to handle him he was one of the kindest people imaginable.  He was a cattleman and farmer, and when he died he left an incredible amount to charity.


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## Cookie (Apr 11, 2015)

An 87 year old woman was arrested today on Air Canada flight which an made emergency landing in Ireland after she bites attendant. There must have been a reason for her losing control but it's not mentioned in the news article.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rly-woman-allegedly-bites-attendant-1.3029397


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## Laurie (Apr 12, 2015)

As you may remember , my wife of 54 years passed last month, having been in a wheelchair for for 17 tears, and in care for 2. 


She loved “exotic dancing” long before it became fashionable, and could still clear a Saturday night dance floor, and do a full “splits” at 48 (though I wasn’t allowed near her for a week afterwards!).


At her committal I said

“Forget the lady in the wheelchair and close you eyes as a young woman with tempestuous hair and flashing eyes, and a rear end to die for, June Spain, Juanita Espana, know as Gypsy to her female friends, the males wouldn’t dare, inspires Gabriel to fire up his horn as she shows the Good Lord just what she can do with the talents He gave her."

and an understanding Reverend allowed this committal music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lthTfBnlhvM

That's how I want her remembered.

Gosh, we had some fun!


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## hollydolly (Apr 12, 2015)

Oh Laurie I'm sorry it's been such a short time for you to be without your wife, yet it must seem like forever , and yes I agree people should try and remember the person they knew before pain and illness took over and made them into someone they themselves would hate to be remembered by...

SB  I've read that poem a few times over the years. It was written by Phyllis McCormack in 1966  who at the time was a nurse in a Psychiatric hospital in Montrose Scotland .but it's such a truism , it should be hung in every nursing home and hospice in the land.. 


Incidentally for those who don't know, the word 'crabbit' is Scottish for ''irritable''

My mother was also nurse working in the Psycho Geriatric wards in Scotland when I was a child and I remember some of her stories to this day of her patients and how violent some could be, and how the nursing staff had to be so patient with them. Today it's vastly different, hospitals have been replaced in the main by 'care homes' for the elderly and infirm  usually with overworked unpaid, and very often  untrained carers..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crabbit_Old_Woman


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## Warrigal (Apr 12, 2015)

> But inside this old carcass,
> A young girl still dwells,



I never want to lose my inner child, she is the best part of me.


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## hollydolly (Apr 12, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I never want to lose my inner child, she is the best part of me.



Ditto DW...I describe myself as a child in a Womans' body..


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## Kadee (Apr 12, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> Ditto DW...I describe myself as a child in a Womans' body..



Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional 

If you think young you stay young ...


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## Ameriscot (Apr 12, 2015)

Holly, I've seen this poem many times on FB and other places and knew it was Scottish because of the use of the Scots word crabbit.  Never knew who actually wrote it though.  Doesn't matter though, it's a good poem, one which all carers should read. 

Back in 2004 I was getting really bored with office work and heard about a job being a companion/carer for those in sheltered housing (those who needed some help but were trying to stay independent).  I've always gotten along well with older people.  Different from the home helps who worked out of the social work department, as my job focused on the person more than the tasks.  

My very first client was wee Betty who was 94.  The first thing she said after I was introduced to her was 'I'm 94'.  She liked my reply because I was impressed with her age.  We became good pals and she loved that I was using Scottish sayings like 'nae bother, hen'. She was physically worse off than any other client I had but wanted to remain independent.  She was very sharp and we could talk about politics, sports, and she'd tell me stories about WWII.  Her vision and hearing weren't great, but they both gradually got worse and worse with time.  She was my client for 3 years - the entire time I had the job. She had macular degeneration but insisted she needed new glasses, she also was becoming very deaf and insisted it was ear wax and she didn't near hearing aids.  A very stubborn woman.  By about the 3rd year I took care of her she was unbearable but everyone tried to be patient with her.  I think I'd be crabbit as well if I couldn't see or hear well.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 12, 2015)

Kadee46 said:


> Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional
> 
> If you think young you stay young ...



Same here.  And I have the colouring books to prove it!


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## jujube (Apr 12, 2015)

That was a great tribute, Laurie.


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## Debby (Apr 12, 2015)

Oh SeaBreeze!  So beautiful!  Thank you for sharing that poem with us!


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## Davey Jones (Apr 12, 2015)

Being a guardian for a 16 year old female for the last 6 years keeps me in check, I don't have the time to be grouchy.(G)


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## Debby (Apr 12, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> .........
> 
> My very first client was wee Betty who was 94.  The first thing she said after I was introduced to her was 'I'm 94'.  She liked my reply because I was impressed with her age.  We became good pals and she loved that I was using Scottish sayings like 'nae bother, hen'. She was physically worse off than any other client I had but wanted to remain independent.  She was very sharp and we could talk about politics, sports, and she'd tell me stories about WWII.  Her vision and hearing weren't great, but they both gradually got worse and worse with time.  She was my client for 3 years - the entire time I had the job. She had macular degeneration but insisted she needed new glasses, she also was becoming very deaf and insisted it was ear wax and she didn't near hearing aids.  A very stubborn woman.  By about the 3rd year I took care of her she was unbearable but everyone tried to be patient with her.  I think I'd be crabbit as well if I couldn't see or hear well.




After reading all of that, I can see where we all need to be more generous of spirit with other people (regardless of their age).  Maybe that service person, whom I felt was rude or whatever, was having one of the lousiest days of their life, or maybe were sick and trying to 'put a game face on'.....we never know what the back story is.  So did Betty pass on when she was 97 Ameriscot or did she live on to keep more people after you, to keep on their toes as they evolved in spirit by having her 'rasp' at them?   Hmmm, not sure if that's the right usage of the word 'rasp' but I'm sure you understand....right 

The fact that you mentioned this goes to show that the story of Betty has had an impact on your thinking and in fact, you've evolved just a little bit more because of it!  I think that's why we're here, our purpose is to evolve towards a more loving and compassionate way of being and the Betty stories of the world help us to do that so thanks for sharing it.

Davey, if you're my age, then my hat's off to you for having the strength of character and concern to be guardian to a 16 year old!  Great big 'KUDO's'.


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## Ameriscot (Apr 12, 2015)

Debby said:


> After reading all of that, I can see where we all need to be more generous of spirit with other people (regardless of their age).  Maybe that service person, whom I felt was rude or whatever, was having one of the lousiest days of their life, or maybe were sick and trying to 'put a game face on'.....we never know what the back story is.  So did Betty pass on when she was 97 Ameriscot or did she live on to keep more people after you, to keep on their toes as they evolved in spirit by having her 'rasp' at them?   Hmmm, not sure if that's the right usage of the word 'rasp' but I'm sure you understand....right
> 
> The fact that you mentioned this goes to show that the story of Betty has had an impact on your thinking and in fact, you've evolved just a little bit more because of it!  I think that's why we're here, our purpose is to evolve towards a more loving and compassionate way of being and the Betty stories of the world help us to do that so thanks for sharing it.



In 2007 we went to Uganda to live for two years, so quit my job.  Someone else took care of Betty and my other clients.  She did die while I was in Uganda, I think she made it to 98.  I was truly amazed that she lived as long as she did with the unhealthy diet she had.  She was totally hunched over due to osteoporosis.  Her normal diet was Frosted Flakes for breakfast, mashed potatoes and some type of meat for lunch, tea (with milk) and biscuits several times a day, and not sure what she had for dinner - same as lunch I think.  Very occasionally she'd have vegetable soup but otherwise, no vegetables. The only time she had fruit was when she'd have a strawberry tart.  She was so think I could probably have picked her up with one hand. She never married and had no children.


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## Debby (Apr 12, 2015)

When you see examples like that, it almost makes you wonder about your own focus on 'diet' and 'exercise'.  My own aunt had a bit better diet than that but still she never really gave it a lot of thought for nutrients, balance, etc and thought more about filling the cavernous stomachs of a large family and she lived to 92.   In the last few years, she subsisted on coffee and white toast and the kind of mass produced foods available in most seniors residences.  

But then you gotta ask yourself, do you want to feel good when you are that old so then it all comes into perspective doesn't it?


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## ndynt (Jul 20, 2015)

Laurie and Seabreeze...thank you for sharing...needed those tears.  Though I have read that poem many times..it always makes me tear up.  
 Working with very ill/dying hospice patients for the last 15 years of my career.......still found that despite how old they were...for the most part they were all inspiring and sweet.  The few that were not usually could be brought around with understanding and empathy. Like Annie, looked at the cause of their crankiness vs the behaviors. 
All were able to bring something into my life...even if it was just a thankfulness to be able  get them out of pain and they and their families in an accepting place. Feeling blessed that a supreme being used my hands to accomplish this.  Never had a patient that I could not hold their hand through their last moments, with sincerity.


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## Cookie (Jul 20, 2015)

Most of the elderly people I've met have been friendly, chatty and nice.  The only negative things are things I've heard from others about beginner dementia patients exhibiting inappropriate or violent behavior sometimes. But I have never had any personal experience with this.  When my father was in a nursing home, my sister told me there had been an altercation where someone hit another resident with a cane.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 20, 2015)

I had one client for 3 years, the youngest as she was in her 70's, who was a compulsive talker.  Drove me nuts.  I spent 8 hours a week with her. Another was 92 and when I first met her I thought she was in her 70's.  It was a back problem that required a carer to scrub the tub and do the hoovering.  Otherwise we chatted and I took her on outings.  Really looked forward to my time with her.


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## 3horsefarm (Jul 20, 2015)

Don't see many labeled as grouchy really, without good reason. I on the other hand, have been labeled by some as a sweetie. Boy are THEY misinformed!


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## Cookie (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm not elderly by a long shot, but I do have a grouchy moment now and then,  I like to warn people if I'm feeling 'out of sorts', then they can bring me ice cream and chocolate.


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## Lara (Jul 20, 2015)

Funny I should read this thread for the first time. My brother-in-law just got mean at the dinner table Saturday night and snapped at me and then immediately turned and snapped at my 90 yr old mother for absolutely no valid reason. That's just not anything like him…not at all. In fact, that's never happened with any relatives we have. We all get along beautifully. He has just gone on *heart meds* and my mother and I are thinking that's it. My sister will handle it though…i have no doubt


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## applecruncher (Jul 20, 2015)

SB, I must say that it’s often been the opposite. By that I mean I’ve known of elderly people who many others perceived as “so nice” when in fact they had a deliberate mean streak and often made life difficult for others, then pulled the innocent “I’m old and people are mean to me” act.  One was my own father, another was the mother of an uncle, and yet another was someone I’m not related to.  In all those cases the people were mean and manipulative when they were younger – not just when they got old. Seemed they just resented other people being happy and having nice lives.

OTOH, I had an uncle who was crotchety…a real curmudgeon, but I adored him.  I used to go visit him after his wife died and I loved to hear his stories and thoughts about life and people.

As far as overly chatty/talkers, well, often they are just lonely.


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## Cookie (Jul 20, 2015)

I know an older lady in her mid-90s, who was always quite eccentric.  As she got older and older she became more and more so, and was even what her husband described as 'cantankerous'. If someone said something she that she didn't agree with or like, she would get up and stomp off out of the room.  But if you stayed on her 'good' side, she was sweet as pie.


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## applecruncher (Jul 20, 2015)

My father was a very "nice guy" to outsiders.  But staying on his good side meant 1) doing exactly as he *ordered* you to do 2) never disagreeing 3) justifying what you did with your time.  Consequently me and my siblings often avoided him for very long, extended periods of time. But relatives would say "aaaaw, he's your father, and he's old".  Pffft.


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## 3horsefarm (Jul 20, 2015)

Heh. I was married to a guy like that...........briefly.


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## Cookie (Jul 20, 2015)

My brother in law's dad was estranged from both his children. He changed his will and when he died all his money went to his caretaker. Of course the kids were quite upset and seemed baffled, but they had avoided him for years.


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## applecruncher (Jul 20, 2015)

My dad played the will-changing game several times.  We always ignored it.  It's not like he was Bill Gates.  It got to where he was spending almost as much on attorneys than what he had in his estate. :lofl: 

Spending time with someone just so they will keep you in the will is just as bad as changing the will every time someone makes you angry or doesn't do what you want.  That game never worked with me.


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## Rocky (Jul 20, 2015)

ndynt said:


> Working with very ill/dying hospice patients for the last 15 years of my career.......still found that despite how old they were...for the most part they were all inspiring and sweet.
> All were able to bring something into my life...even if it was just to be able  get they and their families in an accepting place. Never had a patient that I could not hold their hand through their last moments, with sincerity.



_Nona, I've quoted part of your reply.  A part I understand well.  I volunteered for hospice work after retiring.  And you are so very right ... "all were able to bring something into my life" ... for me it was to lose any fear of death._


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## Underock1 (Jul 20, 2015)

That is a great poem. Goes beyond gender. Still living on my own, so not involved with an outside caretaker. The parts about living in your memories, really resonated. No matter how loving, others can never really know what's going on inside you.
 At any rate, I'm a nice guy. Whoever gets stuck with seeing me off is in for a treat. :woohoo:


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## ndynt (Jul 20, 2015)

Rocky said:


> _Nona, I've quoted part of your reply.  A part I understand well.  I volunteered for hospice work after retiring.  And you are so very right ... "all were able to bring something into my life" ... for me it was to lose any fear of death._


I think that unless you have been involved in hospice it is difficult to understand just how rewarding it can be, Rocky.


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## oldman (Jul 21, 2015)

Back to the main question....YES! Many times.


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## QuickSilver (Jul 21, 2015)

Let's be perfectly clear..  there is a HUGE difference in a hospice situation, and an acute care situation.  Acute care nurses see people at their sickest and crabbiest  for very short periods of time, usually for only one or two days..   There is no time to develop the lovely relationship and the "getting to know and love" a really sweet and lovely person...   Inpatient care is get 'em in.. save their lives.. and move 'em out..  period.. Acute care  nurses are so incredibly busy running from one emergency to the next... there's very little touchie feelie going on that hospice nurses get to enjoy.  It's an entirely different scenario.


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## Glinda (Jul 21, 2015)

My mom spent her last few years in a nursing home.  She was well taken care of and seemed happy there, though she gradually lost the ability to communicate and eventually didn't recognize her children.  I was touched that many of her caregivers attended her funeral and expressed to me their love for her.  It takes a special person to do this type of work.


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## QuickSilver (Jul 21, 2015)

Glinda said:


> My mom spent her last few years in a nursing home.  She was well taken care of and seemed happy there, though she gradually lost the ability to communicate and eventually didn't recognize her children.  I was touched that many of her caregivers attended her funeral and expressed to me their love for her.  It takes a special person to do this type of work.



Well, fortunately in nursing, there are "special" people working in all the separate areas..  It is true.. not everyone can handle long term care and nursing home environments.. however, not everyone can handle the highly technical, fast paced and stressful environment of acute care.  We do need all kinds of nurses..  don't we.


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## Underock1 (Jul 21, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Well, fortunately in nursing, there are "special" people working in all the separate areas..  It is true.. not everyone can handle long term care and nursing home environments.. however, not everyone can handle the highly technical, fast paced and stressful environment of acute care.  We do need all kinds of nurses..  don't we.



Yes we do. My wife was a forty year diabetic, went through surgeries, dialysis for four years, physical rehab for months, then intensive care, and finally in hospital hospice. At every stage, we found the most caring people you are ever going to meet.
Eleanor actually enjoyed the contact with many of her care givers. I am forever in their debt. Often maligned, but better people than I, by far.


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## MarciKS (Dec 8, 2020)

DoItMyself said:


> Yes.  A good friend who passed last summer was a crusty old curmudgeon, *but once you knew how to handle him he was one of the kindest people imaginable*.  He was a cattleman and farmer, and when he died he left an incredible amount to charity.


That right there says it all. People no longer take the time to get to know people and find out why they're the way they are. They make snap assumptions and judgments and break out the labels right away. Some folks have lived hard lives and as they age that life isn't getting any easier. People need to get to know others and quit assuming they know diddly squat about someone.


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## fuzzybuddy (Dec 8, 2020)

Bah. Humbug. !!!!  *Get off my lawn!  *


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