# What do you think about this: FIRE = financial independence retire early



## ancient mariner (Apr 21, 2018)

> A growing movement thinks that the traditional retirement age of 65 is too old, and argues that with some smart planning and serious frugality, you should be able to retire earlier than that.
> 
> Way earlier.
> 
> The idea of this movement is to cut your expenses and maximize your savings to allow you to reach financial independence and a very early retirement. The movement calls itself FIRE—short for financial independence / retire early.


https://www.thebalance.com/does-fire-early-retirement-make-sense-for-you-4160765


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## Robusta (Apr 21, 2018)

About the most stupid thing I have ever heard of.  Sure if you live like a pauper you can save money, so what, if you are miserable. Also, to even be in a poistion where you can live like a pauper while putting away money, is starting from a place of privilege.  

My wife and I worked and lived normal blue collar lives with car payments, mortgages. orthodontics payments, took family vacations and still bothe retired early. Me at 56, her at 55.

We are by no means rich, we still have a budget, and a couple hundred left over when the month is done.


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## Sunny (Apr 21, 2018)

Doesn't sound too practical, or with a high likelihood of success.  The early adult years are the time when most people are starting families, getting their first homes, etc. The need for everyday, practical expenses is probably at its highest.  It's hard to imagine that many young people having the fanatic self-discipline this would require. Plus, most young people are not that concerned with how much money they will have later on in life. It goes against the grain.  

It also sounds like a kind of anal, nit-picky way to live. "You want a car?  A decent house to live in?  Good schools for the kids?  Sorry, dear, that goes above our allotment of $10,000 each."

While saving some money, and having a retirement plan in place are good ideas, carrying it to this extreme sounds very dubious to me. It's really just sacrificing any decent quality of life at the present time for financial security later on.


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## Don M. (Apr 21, 2018)

This sounds rather impractical...especially for a young couple with kids, who want to live a decent life during their earning years, and raise their kids properly.  A Far Better option is to take full advantage of existing IRA/401K plans at an early age.  If a person got into a 401K, for 5 or 6 percent of their earnings...especially with an employers "match", when they are in their 20's, or 30's, they would have more than enough to meet their financial obligations during their earning years, and have quite a nice fund available to allow a good retirement by the time they reach 60.  

With all the dire predictions about the future of Social Security, today's young workers would be foolish Not to begin planning for their retirements at an early age.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 21, 2018)

FIRECalc was helpful to me.

https://www.firecalc.com/

I read and learned from many sources different ways to make early retirement a reality.


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## fmdog44 (Apr 21, 2018)

I worked for three months before I turned 67 for a better SS monthly check and because I enjoyed working.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 21, 2018)

There is an entire forum community dedicated to Early Retirement.   Some of them are beyond the pale, lol.


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## mathjak107 (Apr 21, 2018)

i consider myself somewhat financially well versed , i find many of the posters over on the early retirement forum extremely well versed and a great source for learning . it is founded by the creators of firecalc .


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## mathjak107 (Apr 21, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> FIRECalc was helpful to me.
> 
> https://www.firecalc.com/
> 
> I read and learned from many sources different ways to make early retirement a reality.



firecalc is an excellent tool . to bad most people have no idea how it works  and that some how it is predicting the future so they dismiss it but it is nothing like that .


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## Manatee (Apr 21, 2018)

I was downsized at 59 during a recession,_* that *_was a crash course in frugal living.


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## NancyNGA (Apr 22, 2018)

Not a bad strategy if you're single.  I'm pretty sure I followed that strategy, not knowing it was a strategy with a name, just always running scared of the future when I was younger.


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## HipGnosis (Apr 22, 2018)

It's not for everyone, but more people need to know it is an option.    And the earlier in their life they know about it, the more probable their success with it.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 22, 2018)

Learning to live on less and save your money is one of the few things that will leave you better off even if you fail to retire early.


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## Lethe200 (Apr 22, 2018)

I think it grossly underestimates how much medical expenses and insurance premiums will cost over what has become an average lifespan of 84+ years.


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## Linda (Apr 22, 2018)

I also think about the people who don't get the luxury of growing old.  I think people should enjoy life to some extent while they are here to enjoy it.  I knew a couple who worked hard all their married life, keeping a small store open.  They worked 7 days a week a lot of the time so they didn't have to hire help.  They invested wisely and owned several rentals and also lived in a nice house themselves.  She told me they never went on vacations and planned to do that when they retired.  She said they were going to buy a motor home and drive all over the US and see this great country of ours.  Well, in their late 60s he started getting Alzheimers and between that and Parkinson's those dreams went up in smoke.  I can't say their life was a waste though, they put their kids through college and when her husband died she was left well off and went on a few trips alone or with a gal friend.  I always thought it was sad they didn't get to go together though.  No one has a guarantee they will live to retirement age.


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## fmdog44 (Apr 22, 2018)

Will we out live our money? That question cannot be answered in just years alone. You will spend your money differently at older ages than you would 10-20 years prior. I have no desire to have a heartbeat for as long as I can. I insist on quality of life not longevity. I have witnessed the dark side of old age i.e., dementia and it is the equivalent of marriage without a spouse.  I don't want to save my money only to give it to a healthcare facility that provides a chair for me to sit in while I don't realize I'm alive. Suicide can be justified in some instances.


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## Linda (Apr 23, 2018)

I agree with you fmdog44, about suicide.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 25, 2018)

I would say it depends on (not necessarily in order of importance):
 1. How much the couple wants to retire early...is it more important than spending on "stuff" now?  
2. At what age they plan to retire (I think 30 is impractical unless they have a side business that's sure to continue to generate income like my cousin and her husband who became millionaires their first year of multi level marketing with a health company). 
3. How high or low the cost of living is in their area.  
4. How frugal-savvy they are.
5. How many children they have. The more they have, the less likely they will be able to reach their saving goals.
6. What their current salaries are.
Some young people are turning to living in tiny homes, some even building them themselves, so they can skip the big mortgage payments. I've heard of Mr. Moustache before and other couples who retired really early as well. They are making it work.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 25, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> FIRECalc was helpful to me.
> 
> https://www.firecalc.com/
> 
> I read and learned from many sources different ways to make early retirement a reality.


Some time ago a gentleman on another site told me about FIREcalc. It left me scratching my head going "WTH"?!!  Just clicked on the link to see if I could try it again out of curiosity but didn't see where to input my SS & pension after clicking on *Start Here *even though they mention that there are fields for that.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 25, 2018)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Some time ago a gentleman on another site told me about FIREcalc. It left me scratching my head going "WTH"?!! Just clicked on the link to see if I could try it again out of curiosity but didn't see where to input my SS & pension after clicking on *Start Here *even though they mention that there are fields for that.



It is a little confusing.

You enter your portfolio on one page and SS/pension on another page.

OTHER INCOME/SPENDING
https://www.firecalc.com/

You can also add inflation assumptions on another screen.

After you have submitted your data you can click on Display Input Data in the upper right-hand corner of the screen to verify the assumptions that are being used.


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## mathjak107 (Apr 26, 2018)

i find it easiest to use by only stress testing the portfolio portion and not entering expenses or other outside income .

just subtract out all other income sources from your income needs and what is left has to be provided by the portfolio.  i use firecalc to set goal posts not to calculate spending .

so as an example , lets  say you need 100k in income .  you get 30k in pension and 20k in ss . so that leaves 50k left for the portfolio to provide . i would stress test the portfolio for  50k in firecalc  to see if it can maintain that with a high success rate .

i am more concerned with knowing our total income generating potential  over all than of what my expenses come to .

our budget is about 40-50% discretionary spending so we want to know what are our goal posts we have to stay within , then we design the years goings on to fit .


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## OneEyedDiva (May 1, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> It is a little confusing.
> 
> You enter your portfolio on one page and SS/pension on another page.
> 
> ...



Thank you Aunt Bea. I see now that the other income has it's own tab. Other comprehensive calcs I used had one continuous flow. I haven't had a chance to use it yet but I was searching for a comprehensive calc for my son and DIL and found one that seems good. I want to try that one too...just for fun. I've been retired for 20 years now and am still investing and saving not taking distributions (except for my RMDs).


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