# 64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck



## Jace (Mar 11, 2022)

Just heard on the news...64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck.

Hope ya'all are doing o.k. Be financially astute!


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## RFW (Mar 11, 2022)

It is a sad reality. I'm glad my children can still make decent living. I've been helping out a grandson just to relieve some of the burden.


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## hollydolly (Mar 11, 2022)

Jace said:


> Just heard on the news...64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck.
> 
> Be financial astute!


wow.. I presume that's in the USA..wonder what the stats are here I must have a little research...


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## hollydolly (Mar 11, 2022)

UK.... 


A July survey of more than 8,000 UK adults carried out by the housing charity Shelter and YouGov has revealed that close to 40% of UK households are just one paycheque from potential homelessness.

The survey found that 37% of respondents would be unable to cover their housing costs for more than a month with almost a quarter of those surveyed saying that they would be unable to pay them at all if they lost their job.


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## Jace (Mar 11, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> wow.. I presume that's in the USA..wonder what the stats are here I must have a little research...


I think it did report Americans.
But there are "others" here(U.S.A.)...
So, now...my post is in question


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## Autumn72 (Mar 11, 2022)

Can feel it


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## Grampa Don (Mar 11, 2022)

Has it ever been any different?  My folks never had much money in the bank.  And, for most of our married life, we didn't either.

One problem now is that credit is so easy to obtain that some people live beyond their means.  When we bought our first color TV, I signed a 6 month contract to pay it off.  Now, most people would just put it on their credit card.   Then for some, the balance builds up and they go in a hole they can't get out of.


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## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2022)

Thankfully, my kids are doing quite well. Two of my grandkids are beginning to feel the pinch pretty dearly, but one of them lost his job. He's married but they don't have any kids, so that's good at least. His wife is still working.

Michelle and I are barely hanging in there at the moment. Michelle was talking about quitting school and going to work full-time. I don't want her to do that. She was also saying she'd get a license rather than a degree - be a pre-school teacher's aid rather than primary school teacher - but I don't want her to settle for that, either.

We'll be doing a bit better when my foster-care income starts hitting the bank, but of course a lot of that will go toward the baby; half at the very least. She's growing fast, starting on "solid" food, and she's getting interested in toys. 

So I'm mulling over dipping into my savings, which is substantial, but that was for our house. So we'd have to put off buying a house. I think I'd rather do that than interrupt Michelle's career path. But maybe, considering she'll survive me by quite a few decades, maybe she should have a house that's nearly paid for with a relatively small mortgage and not many years left on it. 

IDK, I'm still mulling it over.


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## Autumn72 (Mar 11, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Thankfully, my kids are doing quite well. Two of my grandkids are beginning to feel the pinch pretty dearly, but one of them lost his job. He's married but they don't have any kids, so that's good at least. His wife is still working.
> 
> Michelle and I are barely hanging in there at the moment. Michelle was talking about quitting school and going to work full-time. I don't want her to do that. She was also saying she'd get a license rather than a degree - be a pre-school teacher's aid rather than primary school teacher - but I don't want her to settle for that, either.
> 
> ...


Oh,my you certainly do need a huge hug and a good break.
Sometimes it's hard to know what is the best to do ....a vote on it may help....for food for thought.
Many here to give that aide in the way of making it fair as for you too 
After, all you do count in this all.


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## Murrmurr (Mar 11, 2022)

Autumn72 said:


> Oh,my you certainly do need a huge hug and a good break.
> Sometimes it's hard to know what is the best to do ....a vote on it may help....for food for thought.
> Many here to give that aide in the way of making it fair as for you too
> After, all you do count in this all.


I'll take that hug, Autumn, thank you.

Michelle and I are still discussing it. We're going to do what's best for her, since she'll be here longer. She just needs to tell me what that is...and then we'll do what *I* think is best.


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## mrstime (Mar 11, 2022)

We are so lucky, for the first time in our lives our financial situation is so easy. We actually have money left over at the end of the month. I stick the left over money in our saving account. So then if something unexpected happens we can afford it. We paid off our home, car too, so our only bills are utilities and our pharmacy bills.

We are as healthy as a couple in our 80's can be. So life is good!


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## Jace (Mar 11, 2022)

Let us all try..to do "the best we can"!

May better days be...for all of us!


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 12, 2022)

I think that living paycheck to paycheck is normal for most of us at some point in our lives, but at some point, it becomes a choice or habit for some of us.

The statistic that concerns me is 42% of people with six-figure incomes are living paycheck to paycheck.

Maybe it's a different world where people rely on credit instead of savings to power through the rough spots of life. 

I agree with the Delany sisters and their papa on setting a little bit aside or living below your means.

*Sarah* _"Papa always told us to save for a rainy day. So we did!"_

*Annie Elizabeth*_ "Yes, but Papa never told us it would rain this long or this hard!" _


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## Liberty (Mar 12, 2022)

Jace said:


> Just heard on the news...64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck.
> 
> Hope ya'all are doing o.k. Be financially astute!


And yet you wonder why so many people are up and quitting their jobs and why so many employers can't find good help these days.  Son owns a software biz in Ohio and he can't find good people - trust me he pays a good 6 figures, too!


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## Judycat (Mar 12, 2022)

Liberty said:


> And yet you wonder why so many people are up and quitting their jobs and why so many employers can't find good help these days.  Son owns a software biz in Ohio and he can't find good people - trust me he pays a good 6 figures, too!


The news seems to indicate people are really dumb and dissatisfied anymore thinking it would be better to tear down the economy.


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## RFW (Mar 12, 2022)

Liberty said:


> And yet you wonder why so many people are up and quitting their jobs and why so many employers can't find good help these days.  Son owns a software biz in Ohio and he can't find good people - trust me he pays a good 6 figures, too!





Judycat said:


> The news seems to indicate people are really dumb and dissatisfied anymore thinking it would be better to tear down the economy.


It seems to me that young people these days just think every little thing they perceive as bad needs to be held accountable, every little bit of resistance they encounter is a just cause to give up.


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## horseless carriage (Mar 12, 2022)

Grampa Don said:


> Has it ever been any different?  My folks never had much money in the bank.  And, for most of our married life, we didn't either.
> 
> One problem now is that credit is so easy to obtain that some people live beyond their means.  When we bought our first color TV, I signed a 6 month contract to pay it off.  Now, most people would just put it on their credit card.   Then for some, the balance builds up and they go in a hole they can't get out of.


Dinosaur is a jocular insult that I have heard on a few occasions. Back in the day, I, like many others, received my wages in cash, that's the filthy lucre that has a portrait of the queen on it. It didn't take long to learn that not all of that money was mine. There are bills to pay and if I didn't budget for them it would cause some serious grief. 

Being strict with spending became a habit and being paid in cash allowed me to physically see how much I had, it was a useful tool in keeping out of debt. To this day cash is still my preferred method of spend, hence the dinosaur comments. When I do get a remark about paying in cash I have a retort that always gets an agreement. 

Dinosaur maybe, but Big Brother has no idea how much I have spent, what I have bought, where I spent it, what I purchased and when the transaction took place. I then like to add: All that information you give freely with every plastic card or electronic purchase. Only Queen Elizabeth knows when I pay in cash, and she's not telling.


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## Lee (Mar 12, 2022)

While living pay cheque to pay cheque is not ideal, it is much better than the alternative of your pay not being able to stretch that pay cheque to meet your needs and borrowing from Peter to pay Paul.

As long as I am able to keep a few bucks in the bank I have enough. And when I find the bucks going down then I go on what I call a Money Diet till I build it up again.


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## RadishRose (Mar 12, 2022)

64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck.

How does anyone know that? Was it a survey? How many people were asked? By whom?

I have seen articles on the Internet exclaiming something like "85% of Americans believe in Santa Claus".... when you read the article you find only 2500 people were surveyed. Out of billions.


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 12, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> 64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck.
> 
> How does anyone know that? Was it a survey? How many people were asked? By whom?
> 
> I have seen articles on the Internet exclaiming something like "85% of Americans believe in Santa Claus".... when you read the article you find only 2500 people were surveyed. Out of billions.


This is the article that I saw.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/08/as-...t-of-americans-live-paycheck-to-paycheck.html


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## hollydolly (Mar 12, 2022)

RFW said:


> It seems to me that young people these days just think every little thing they perceive as bad needs to be held accountable, every little bit of resistance they encounter is a just cause to give up.


You couldn't be more right.. we find this here a lot... !!


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## ronaldj (Mar 12, 2022)

spent most of my working life living pay check to pay check, now I am retired, living from the first of the month till the first of the month.


no we are fine, just making a joke.  it's not having what you want, its enjoying what you have.


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## hollydolly (Mar 12, 2022)

ronaldj said:


> spent most of my working life living pay check to pay check, now I am retired, living from the first of the month till the first of the month.


The point is Ronald, are you struggling to live month to month ?


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## Jeni (Mar 12, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> The statistic that concerns me is 42% of people with six-figure incomes are living paycheck to paycheck.
> 
> Maybe it's a different world where people rely on credit instead of savings to power through the rough spots of life.


I think it is worse then it use to be............. but honestly because many people (that i have seen) just do whatever and "charge it" on a card.
the more credit card or  phone pay features there are people do not think of it as real money............ just a tap or swipe....

The % could be wildly off because many do not distinguish paycheck to paycheck for basic vs paycheck to paycheck for tons of gadgets and non essentials.


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## RadishRose (Mar 12, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> This is the article that I saw.
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/08/as-...t-of-americans-live-paycheck-to-paycheck.html


I dunno AB, this article says-

*Methodology*_ 
The New Reality Check:  The Paycheck-To-Paycheck Report is based on a census-balanced survey of 2,633 complete responses from U.S. consumers conducted from Jan. 11 to Jan. 18, 2022, as well as an analysis of other economic data._

Well, I'm sure they did their best, but I'm not sure of these kinds of surveys. Thanks for the info.


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## Don M. (Mar 12, 2022)

With inflation showing NO signs of slowing down, the number of people barely getting by will only continue to increase.

Much the same ;can be said about our government.  If some actions aren't taken to reduce our National Debt, the day WILL come when the dollar is worth about the same as the Russian Ruble.


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## Packerjohn (Mar 12, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> 64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck.
> 
> How does anyone know that? Was it a survey? How many people were asked? By whom?
> 
> I have seen articles on the Internet exclaiming something like "85% of Americans believe in Santa Claus".... when you read the article you find only 2500 people were surveyed. Out of billions.


I hear you, RadishRose.  Aren't those millions of surveys out there wonderful?  I don't think so!  China produces so much while all we seem to be doing here in Canada is doing those bloody surveys.  I don't know if 85% of Americans believe in Santa Claus but I know every Christmas there is a lot of BS on the evening of December 24th about the US Armed Forces tracking Santa Claus on their radars.  Like I say, it's a "dumb and dumber" society and it's getting still dumber.  My goodness!  What every happened to education?  I hope there is still some hope for the world but after seeing what Putin is doing I really have my doubts.


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## RadishRose (Mar 12, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I don't know if 85% of Americans believe in Santa Claus


That was just sarcasm, not meant literally.


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## Jace (Mar 12, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> 64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck.
> 
> How does anyone know that? Was it a survey? How many people were asked? By whom?
> 
> I have seen articles on the Internet exclaiming something like "85% of Americans believe in Santa Claus".... when you read the article you find only 2500 people were surveyed. Out of billi





Aunt Bea said:


> This is the article that I saw.
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/08/as-...t-of-americans-live-paycheck-to-paycheck.html


T Y,  AB, for "backing me up" with posting that article!


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## StarSong (Mar 12, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> I dunno AB, this article says-
> 
> *Methodology*_
> The New Reality Check:  The Paycheck-To-Paycheck Report is based on a census-balanced survey of 2,633 complete responses from U.S. consumers conducted from Jan. 11 to Jan. 18, 2022, as well as an analysis of other economic data._
> ...


Bingo!  2,633 people surveyed when the US adult population is roughly 260 million?  Talk about a small sample. What's the definition of living month to month anyway?  No extra money anywhere?  No safety nets?  A missed month and you're living on the street?

A fuller picture:

A lot of people live "month to month" with few _liquid _savings during various points in our lives.  Did this study consider money tied up in in 401Ks, IRAs, Roths and other accounts people keep out of reach for ongoing expenses?

What about other assets, including home equity?  Roughly 65% of Americans live in owner-occupied dwellings, and *34% of our homes are mortgage-free*. Some living there may be relatives of the homeowner - elderly parents or children who've yet to launch - but their housing is nevertheless stable, so in reality their "paycheck to paycheck" scenario is a whole lot less dire than it seems.

(This rate of home ownership has remained between 63% & 69% for the past 57 years, which is how long the stats have been available.)
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/home-ownership-rate

Studies like this show shocking headlines but the truth is a often much more reassuring than dire. But nobody clicks on those stories.

Of course I realize some Americans literally do live month to month without an extra penny anywhere, but in the US that's the exception, not the rule - and definitely not the reality for 64% of the population.  48% of the population with income over $100K living paycheck to paycheck with no safety nets beneath them is even more unlikely.


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## ronaldj (Mar 12, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> The point is Ronald, are you struggling to live month to month ?


no we are good, was making a joke, (trying to make a joke.)


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 12, 2022)

Jace, there was a time when that was me. I was in my 20's and nicknamed that me "Poor Girl".  But I starting learning very good financial habits during that time and have maintained them even after my finances greatly improved. Now my basic expenses take up less than half of my monthly income as a retiree and there's enough in my savings and checking accounts to live off for life (considering my income). Although I don't consider myself rich by any means, I may be in better shape than some who are rich. Like @Aunt Bea posted...many of them are stretched thin too according to statistics. I also have a healthy investment portfolio that I don't anticipate having to touch unless, God forbid, there's a catastrophic illness or event.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Mar 12, 2022)

Could be living paycheck to paycheck and juggling debt. Only one life to live, so got to have fun.

"The average American has a credit card balance of $5,525.

Although that's a large amount, it has been dropping over the last two years. The average balance was $6,629 in 2019 and $5,897 in 2020. *That data comes from Experian and its yearly State of Credit reports.*

Generation X carries the highest average credit card balance at $7,236. That's over $1,000 more than baby boomers, who came in second with an average balance of $6,230.

The lowest average credit card debt by age was Generation Z with $2,312. Since young adults have lower incomes on average, they also have a lower average credit limit, which at least helps with avoiding credit card debt."

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/credit-card-debt-statistics/


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## funsearcher! (Mar 12, 2022)

Needs vs wants--important distinction.

Dave Ramsey's program is helpful


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## hollydolly (Mar 12, 2022)

Average UK credit card debt per household​ 
Following along with total credit card debt, the average credit card debt per household stood at £2,033 in August 2021. This is a healthy decline from the beginning of 2020 when average household credit card debt stood at £2,592.  Again, this drop is likely a direct result of the economic impact of Covid-19. That’s because the pandemic significantly limited what cardholders could spend their money on.


Total credit card debt in the UK was £56.5 billion in August 2021. This is far less than the £72.1 billion reported in 2020.
Average credit card debt per household was £2,033 as of August 2021. That figure represents an average of £1,068 per adult.
In November 2021, the average representative rate on credit cards was around 21% according to the Bank of England. The figure is a sharp rise from the 18.67% reported at the beginning of 2019.
In Q2 of 2021, bank write-offs of loans stood at £958 million, of which £366 million was credit card debt. This means banks wrote off £4 million of debt each day.
Household debt of all types is forecast to rise from £2,006 billion to £2,345 billion by 2025.


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## Liberty (Mar 12, 2022)




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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 12, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Average UK credit card debt per household​
> Following along with total credit card debt, the average credit card debt per household stood at £2,033 in August 2021. This is a healthy decline from the beginning of 2020 when average household credit card debt stood at £2,592.  Again, this drop is likely a direct result of the economic impact of Covid-19. That’s because the pandemic significantly limited what cardholders could spend their money on.
> 
> 
> ...


Would you please post those figures in U.S. dollars? Thank you.


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## Remy (Mar 12, 2022)

Housing is out of control. In The U. S. anyway and I assume all over.


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## HoneyNut (Mar 12, 2022)

I think everything is stacked against the younger generation, they have to pay (_after _adjusting for inflation over the years) 250% of what we had to pay for college.  And when I graduated employers trained new hires, I remember talking to an IBM recruiter when I was young and she said they had particular success hiring music majors and training them to do programming.  Nowadays young people have to go in debt to get the training in school because big corp America doesn't want to spend anything on employees. 

And credit cards, when my daughter turned 21 our mailbox was deluged with predatory credit card offers.  Luckily she was away at college so I threw them all away without her seeing them, but I was shocked by seductive sounding offers and the truly awful fine print.


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## hollydolly (Mar 12, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Would you please post those figures in U.S. dollars? Thank you.


you asked you shall be given, never let it be said..that I don't give you anything... 



Total credit card debt in the UK was £56.5 billion in August 2021 = (* $ 73 Billion, 667 million, 468,500 USD*) . This is far less than the £72.1 billion = ( *$ 94 Billion, 7 Million, 512,900 USD*) reported in 2020.
Average credit card debt per household was £2,033 = (* $3379 USD*) as of August 2021. That figure represents an average of £1,068 = (* $1,392 US* ) per adult.
In November 2021, the average representative rate on credit cards was around 21% according to the Bank of England. The figure is a sharp rise from the 18.67% reported at the beginning of 2019.
In Q2 of 2021, bank write-offs of loans stood at £958  million,  = (* $1 Billion, 249 million..87 thousand , 242 dollars USD*)  of which £366 million = (*$ 477 million, 208,734 USD*) was credit card debt. This means banks wrote off £4 million of debt each day.= ( *$5 million, 215,396 USD*)
Household debt of all types is forecast to rise from £2,006 billion =  to £2,345 billion by 2025.


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## C50 (Mar 12, 2022)

I have to wonder how many of those paycheck to paycheck households are self created.  So many people live beyond their means,  fancy phones and plans, cable/internet, huge homes, dinners out often, credit card debt, etc.  So much can be avoided.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 12, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> you asked you shall be given, never let it be said..that I don't give you anything...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_"never let it be said..that I don't give you anything.."_ I know you wouldn't treat me mean like that HD_.  _Thank you again__


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 12, 2022)

C50 said:


> I have to wonder how many of those paycheck to paycheck households are self created.  So many people live beyond their means,  fancy phones and plans, cable/internet, huge homes, dinners out often, credit card debt, etc.  So much can be avoided.


I know some people who are in that category yet they don't listen to prudent advice about how to improve their circumstances.


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## MountainRa (Mar 12, 2022)

I’ve always lived below my means and am good at saving money. So we’re doing ok. But I worry that with the American health system, one severe medical illness or event with my husband or me could leave us in dire financial shape.


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## David777 (Mar 12, 2022)

The subject is really about the accepted American culture of going into debt. IMO for most people's situations, living week to week is stupid.  Most people on many matters act like sheep following others instead of thinking too deeply for themselves. And that works right into the interests of banks and other financial institutions.  For young twentysomethings coming of age, they are pounded with advertisement to buy material goods from vehicles to myriad appliances filling homes.  The same now as when I came of age in the 1970s.  Almost every acquaintance I had as well as relatives bought into that narrative.  Why not buy via loans now what you desire instead of waiting?  Look, everyone does that so going into debt must be ok...isn't it?

This person is one of the few peons that began with just lugging a duffle bag on busses, so not even a car, after a USAF HD, that has never been in debt...EVER. I walked a half mile to work in Silicon Valley my first several months to make $2.83/hr as a junior electronic tech. Although being in debt can work well, the world has land mines that have a way of eventually blowing up from a list of unexpected missteps.  And have seen plenty of others fall into the abyss.  The most common is losing one's job, especially during economic downturns when one's income may end for unknown periods, putting not a few into disaster.  And of course employers understand that stressful leverage they have over their employees.  Over the decades, that also allowed me to request understandings before being hired about issues like rarely working overtime or on weekends without usual stressful threats of being fired.

I, admittedly am not much of a materialist, thought why not live cheaply frugally for a few years, till I could pay for whatever with cash and have enough savings in a bank that would cushion stepping on unseen land mines.


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## Grampa Don (Mar 12, 2022)

To be fair, a lot of people just don't earn enough to put money aside while paying the rent, putting clothes on their kids, and decent food on the table.  I think it has always been this way.


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## Lawrence (Mar 12, 2022)

This percent rating has put my brain into the spin cycle. About the first half of my working life, I was living paycheck to paycheck. I started working at 18 and retired at 68 so that was 50 years. So, when I was 18 to about 43 years old, I was living paycheck to paycheck. The from 43 to 68 I was able to save money and build up a nest egg. So, this figure of 64 percent at the current time has put my brain in a spin. If 64 percent of people bring in enough money to survive what about the remainder of the 36 percent? There are the people that are not able to live paycheck and so must live in poverty and there are people who are above the ability to live to live paycheck to paycheck and be rich. What is the percentage of people that are living in poverty now and the percent of people who can be considered rich? If I use the golden ratio, I figure there is possibly twice as many in poverty than there are rich people. Which could foretell that possible 24 percent of people live in poverty and 12 percent of people who are rich.


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## Grampa Don (Mar 13, 2022)

@Lawrence  Now you've got my brain in a spin.


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## StarSong (Mar 13, 2022)

Lawrence said:


> This percent rating has put my brain into the spin cycle. About the first half of my working life, I was living paycheck to paycheck. I started working at 18 and retired at 68 so that was 50 years. So, when I was 18 to about 43 years old, I was living paycheck to paycheck. The from 43 to 68 I was able to save money and build up a nest egg. So, this figure of 64 percent at the current time has put my brain in a spin. If 64 percent of people bring in enough money to survive what about the remainder of the 36 percent? There are the people that are not able to live paycheck and so must live in poverty and there are people who are above the ability to live to live paycheck to paycheck and be rich. What is the percentage of people that are living in poverty now and the percent of people who can be considered rich? If I use the golden ratio, I figure there is possibly twice as many in poverty than there are rich people. Which could foretell that possible 24 percent of people live in poverty and 12 percent of people who are rich.


64% is almost certainly a gross exaggeration.  See my post (#30) above.


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## Pecos (Mar 13, 2022)

StarSong said:


> 64% is almost certainly a gross exaggeration.  See my post (#30) above.


Your post number 30 was very informative. Thanks


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## mathjak107 (Mar 13, 2022)

I agree 2600 people is nothing one can draw a conclusion from …

just our building alone would be hard to draw any conclusion from since incomes and wealth are all over the map where we live


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## mathjak107 (Mar 13, 2022)

all these surveys can be skewed to show whatever someone wants .

we were watching tv ,when a mothers against drunk driving commercial came on .

they said 40% of all accidents involves drugs or alcohol…

i said to my wife , see it is safer to drive stoned…..60% of the accidents are straight people


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## StarSong (Mar 13, 2022)

My purely unscientific life observation: people's financial situations usually mirror their parents' financial habits.  

Children growing up in families who live within their means tend to repeat that pattern when they hit adulthood. 
Families who are always financially overextended tend to spawn offspring with poor financial skills.  Some are saved from that fate when they marry people who take over the finances and keep the household solvent.


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## Nathan (Mar 13, 2022)

> 64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck


Meanwhile, The top 1% officially have more money than the whole middle class


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## StarSong (Mar 13, 2022)

Nathan said:


> Meanwhile, The top 1% officially have more money than the whole middle class


I wish I could say I'm surprised.  The US tax system is constructed by the super wealthy and their minions, so guess what group it favors?


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## mathjak107 (Mar 13, 2022)

StarSong said:


> My purely unscientific life observation: people's financial situations usually mirror their parents' financial habits.
> 
> Children growing up in families who live within their means tend to repeat that pattern when they hit adulthood.
> Families who are always financially overextended tend to spawn offspring with poor financial skills.  Some are saved from that fate when they marry people who take over the finances and keep the household solvent.




I think even that premise can be random .

my parents had little and I lived in a housing project growing up .

when I was old enough to work I made a promise to ,myself I would never not only not raise my own family in the projects but I won’t deny myself or family things we would like that we can do .

i had enough of what I will call restricted living


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## Liberty (Mar 13, 2022)

The problem with a lack of monetary freedom is that its so profoundly inconvenient.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 13, 2022)

Grampa Don said:


> To be fair, a lot of people just don't earn enough to put money aside while paying the rent, putting clothes on their kids, and decent food on the table.  I think it has always been this way.


Your absolutely right and that in itself is a sad state of affairs. There's a myriad of reasons why that is the case, some of which are not the fault of people who suffer through those financial hardships.


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## Shalimar (Mar 13, 2022)

C50 said:


> I have to wonder how many of those paycheck to paycheck households are self created.  So many people live beyond their means,  fancy phones and plans, cable/internet, huge homes, dinners out often, credit card debt, etc.  So much can be avoided.


I think there are many many people in the so called working class whose hardworking lives remain one of constant struggle.


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## Shalimar (Mar 13, 2022)

*oops. I posted before I saw Diva’s post.*


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## Jan14 (Mar 13, 2022)

It wasn’t until I realized I had to hustle in life taking on a second job and then starting a side business, while working full time.  Eventually it paid off and My husband and I were able to have a full time business with employees.  This is when we had more financial freedom.  Either you go to college and get into a high paying profession or hustle in life. Pay check to pay check is nothing new. Young people thing they are owed a good living with little sacrifice.


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## Autumn72 (Mar 13, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> I'll take that hug, Autumn, thank you.
> 
> Michelle and I are still discussing it. We're going to do what's best for her, since she'll be here longer. She just needs to tell me what that is...and then we'll do what *I* think is best.


And you what about you now?
Not to be overly, selfish, yet you must have some joy from all this marrying a young woman is a treat for you. And all you put into this relationship to allow it to work for both.
You signed up for it though, sacrifices are made with v equal satisfaction. Isn't there a song about this a while back.
How much time does she have for schooling?
You do have a foster child too.
How is she or he doing so far?
It does help with all that time way from each other. Good luck with your efforts.

With all the grandparents wishing they could see their own grand children you are able to fill in that void. Good job.


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## JonSR77 (Mar 13, 2022)

Companies are always paying the absolute lowest they can get away with.  It is a pervasive culture of greed, not just without a moral center, but even without much common sense.

You pay people well, they do a good job and are loyal. And, in life, they don't feel abused. They become nicer people and better citizens. It keeps crime rates lower. Everything about treating people fairly makes all of society better.

You treat everyone like a con man's mark, to get the most out of them, while giving the least? You make everyone upset and angry.

You destabilize families and make everyone in society miserable.

And companies don't have to give away the farm. Companies can pay their employees good solid wages, with good working conditions and decent benefits, and still make plenty of money.

But people just surrender to greed, play rhetoric games to justify being horrible to people, care only about themselves, treat life like a war of "every man for himself," are devoting to making the maximum dollar possible....as if being worth $20 million is not enough. Unless they suppress worker wages and benefits so that they can be worth $200 million...they feel they aren't getting enough.

Back in 1978, we knew a guy who left high school, went right to work in Ford plant in Linden, NJ...and started making $18 an hour ($55 an hour in today's dollars). Now, not everyone could get a great union job like that...but they were out there.

One of my idiot musician friends, same year, was a waiter at a fancy country club, made $11 an hour then (about $45 an hour in today's dollars). He was 16, I think. And, an idiot. I remember the 60s and 70s when many of the men on the block worked 40 hour weeks, could afford a house, a car and support a wife and two kids...and send them off to college.

I know the pay levels now are an obscene abuse...because I saw it with my own eyes, when companies obeyed some standards of human decency.

Just a bunch of greedy thieves is all...


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## Murrmurr (Mar 14, 2022)

Autumn72 said:


> And you what about you now?
> Not to be overly, selfish, yet you must have some joy from all this marrying a young woman is a treat for you. And all you put into this relationship to allow it to work for both.
> You signed up for it though, sacrifices are made with v equal satisfaction. Isn't there a song about this a while back.
> How much time does she have for schooling?
> ...



Baby "K" is doing very well; growing a lot and getting stronger. We're actually getting some smiles out of her now. She was so stoic and detached at first, so smiles are a great leap forward. She's fussy in the evenings, but I think that's normal. She sleeps just fine....when she sleeps.

I'm doing pretty well, too. I should be getting a corticosteroid-plus injection in my spine soon. They said they'll call on Monday to get it scheduled. The last one didn't work so well, but I'll give it one more try. Soon as it wears off, I'm gonna have the surgery.

Yes, there is quite an age gap between Michelle and I, but she seems fine with it. She says she's perfectly happy about the whole deal. I certainly have no complaints.

She has school 3 days a week and works part-time on those days, full time on the others, so I try to have dinner ready for her when she gets home and I do as much of the housework as Li'l K will allow. I lived alone a long time, so this is nothing new to me. Michelle will get her credential to be a preschool teacher in about a month. She works at a preschool now, but as a teacher's aid. She wants to be a full-time K-12 teacher, so she'll keep going to school for at least another year.

You said, "It does help with all that time way from each other." I agree. We do cherish our time together, though, very much.

You also said, "Good luck with your efforts." Thank you for that, Autumn. Hopefully won't take quite so much effort after that injection.


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## StarSong (Mar 14, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> Companies are always paying the absolute lowest they can get away with. It is a pervasive culture of greed, not just without a moral center, but even without much common sense.


This is a very unfair generalization.  DH & I paid our employees more than the going rate, treated them very well, and maintained our moral center.  Also our common sense.      

Many companies and corporations are well regarded by their employees. The stinkers tend to have high turnover and lousy reputations.


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## Capt Lightning (Mar 17, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> 64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck.
> 
> How does anyone know that? Was it a survey? How many people were asked? By whom?
> 
> I have seen articles on the Internet exclaiming something like "85% of Americans believe in Santa Claus".... when you read the article you find only 2500 people were surveyed. Out of billions.


That doesn't matter.  The maths of statistics is complicated, but taking a random sample, you need surprisingly few answers to have a high confidence in the result. Choosing who you ask to get a truly representative sample is very important.


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## Jeni (Mar 17, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> You pay people well, they do a good job and are loyal. And, in life, they don't feel abused. They become nicer people and better citizens. It keeps crime rates lower. Everything about treating people fairly makes all of society better.



The issue at hand is SOME people simply put............. will tell you they are underpaid regardless of how much they make ....
I worked for a very generous company and even then there were the few whom did very little  constructive to earn it .......acted as if they were owed more and spent money like there was no tomorrow........ 
how does one measure output ..... and pay accordingly ... if the pay scale is too low it is the employees CHOICE to seek a better position. 
These are the same folks found out while doing "remote" did not pull their weight and some were let go .....


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## RadishRose (Mar 17, 2022)

Jeni said:


> The issue at hand is SOME people simply put............. will tell you they are underpaid regardless of how much they make ....
> I worked for a very generous company and even then there were the few whom did very little  constructive to earn it .......acted as if they were owed more and spent money like there was no tomorrow........
> how does one measure output ..... and pay accordingly ... if the pay scale is too low it is the employees CHOICE to seek a better position.
> These are the same folks found out while doing "remote" did not pull their weight and some were let go .....


Before I retired and during a major change in my company, I was one of the ones chosen (trusted) to work at home.  It was so great!

Why? I was reliable, knew my job, punctual, and worked my shift rather than fool around.


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## Jeni (Mar 17, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> Before I retired and during a major change in my company, I was one of the ones chosen (trusted) to work at home.  It was so great!
> 
> Why? I was reliable, knew my job, punctual, and worked my shift rather than fool around.


Many  companies (in the remote experience of the last couple of years) identified those who Can........ and those who are NOT to be trusted in putting in time OR effort.   
For those extremely upset that may end many did it to themselves by not doing what they were suppose to.
Some companies watched through laptop cameras or had items on computers showing idle time etc.
 I am amused at those folks that acted surprised at that fact...as we all most likely had co-workers etc that did the bare minimum every single day in an office or workplace. 
Rate of pay has nothing to do with it ...... $$ does not correct bad work ethic or change a persons demeanor ...
 if they are a slacker they will be regardless if you pay them double.


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## StarSong (Mar 20, 2022)

Jeni said:


> Many  companies (in the remote experience of the last couple of years) identified those who Can........ and those who are NOT to be trusted in putting in time OR effort.
> For those extremely upset that may end many did it to themselves by not doing what they were suppose to.
> Some companies watched through laptop cameras or had items on computers showing idle time etc.
> I am amused at those folks that acted surprised at that fact...as we all most likely had co-workers etc that did the bare minimum every single day in an office or workplace.
> ...


Companies are also discovering the greater extent to which communal workspaces facilitate synergy and collaboration - even during informal conversations between employees.  Water cooler type stuff.  ("Hey, have you talked to anyone from XYZ company lately?  No?  Turns out my kid is on the same soccer team as a guy who works there.  During our most recent blow-out loss of 6-0, don't ask how my kid did - let's just say he's more interested in daisies than chasing the ball.  Aaanyway, the dad mentioned that the widget account manager is retiring this month.  Yeah, I'm talking about guy who was always such a pain to negotiate with that we dropped them from our vendor list.  He said the new guy is a lot more flexible.  You might want to give them another look.  Their product line, delivery and prices were always good...") 

Having worked for some quite large companies, I assure you the above exchanges are more commonplace than people might imagine.

Long term employees who are accustomed to working together maintain some of this even while working from home, but newer employees have no such history and are shut out of that process.     

For companies, discontinuing a WFH option isn't merely a matter of ensuring employees are giving their jobs full attention, it's a return to reaping expected and unexpected benefits of teams working together.


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## Alligatorob (Mar 20, 2022)

Jace said:


> Just heard on the news...64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck.





hollydolly said:


> 40% of UK households are just one paycheque from potential homelessness.


I could never understand this, no matter how little money I had I have always adjusted my lifestyle to have some savings.  

It is almost always possible to spend a bit less, not many people live at the absolute minimum.  Probably a few do, but I suspect most of these folks are just spending all they can.  

Clothes and household goods can come from Goodwill or thrift shops, and there are a lot of cheap foods in the grocery.  Not always the most convenient or nutritious but livable.  

There were times when I was young I lived that way. I am lucky not to have to now, but I know I could if necessary.


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## Jeni (Mar 20, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I could never understand this, no matter how little money I had I have always adjusted my lifestyle to have some savings.
> 
> It is almost always possible to spend a bit less, not many people live at the absolute minimum.  Probably a few do, but I suspect most of these folks are just spending all they can.


I always think of one co-worker in particular.....
we started in a company that was back logged so often had a lot of OT ..... She would plan on how ...she would divide her upcoming check and every day ..... she would say things like "we bought dinner out last night it was more then we planned but since we have OT I can do it...gave  a loan to someone/ bought new clothes etc but we have OT I can do it... ........
the only problem is her and her child fell ill and she missed 2 days ..... all her plans about affording things were based on a check for work she had not completed now she was short 2 days of wages and even working weekend would be regular time not OT.

This  happened at few places i worked ... i call it the OT / holiday fantasy....
A holiday or OT  coming up ... if we worked got time and a half sometimes plus a day of holiday   .....
many co workers saying similar versions of   "I will pay X amount on some bill / credit card etc" ... then in the week they would indulge in fancy coffees and lunches and just say "oh well i will pay Y on bill now ... still good....."
if an illness or some other item happened ... they had already spent money that simply is not coming now...
and their idea of paying some bill/ credit card was down to minimum payment so zero progress on finances 
I thought some would learn but same people doing same dance EVERY time.


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## Leann (May 5, 2022)

I've certainly had times in my life when I lived paycheck to paycheck mostly because my ex-husband was fired from several jobs and always took his time finding another. One time he took five YEARS to find gainful employment. So the only income we had was mine. And I wasn't making a high wage. But I knew how to make one dollar go the way of ten so, although there weren't many extras during that time, we didn't suffer either. And yes, I was distressed by my ex-husband's attitude not just about work but about a lot of things. Thankfully that is all in my rear-view mirror now.


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## Packerjohn (May 5, 2022)

As I live longer and longer I believe in surveys less and less.  Manufacturing all went south of the border to Mexico and over to China.  All we seem to produce is surveys after surveys after surveys.  We are getting survived to death!

I do feel sorry for folks that are "down and out."  However, let's look at the big picture.  First of all, most folks have little or no discipline.  They want everything *NOW!*  The credit card has become the curse of this century for folks that have no restrain and no discipline.  The houses in Canada are way too big.  Some homes are 3,000 square feet have only 2 people living there.  It's a crime!

Then there are the "Jones."  They have the 3 car garage, the 3 or 4 vehicles in the driveway.  The Jones have bought, (on credit, of course) snowmobiles for the winter (one for him and one for her) and personnel water crafts for the summer ( of course, one for him and one for her).  The Jones living in the country have to have at least one ATV.  If they live by the lake they must have a pontoon boat to sit and drink beer.

Having a cottage by the lake is very popular in most parts of Canada.  These are not tiny little weekend places of escape.   Nope, some are huge with a 3 car garage.  Yup, imagine it.  Paying a mortgage for the big home in the city and then paying for a nice big villa by the lake.  All bought by cheap interest rates with hardly any money down.

No, I feel sorry for folks that are down and out but I sure don't feel sorry for those "keeping up with the Jones."  There is a lot of fat that needs to be cut in this country.  I think the increasing interest rates and the inflation is going to cut a lot of that fat and I, for one, is really looking forward to this cutting.  I think a better society will eventually emerge from the current madness.


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## mathjak107 (May 5, 2022)

Capt Lightning said:


> That doesn't matter.  The maths of statistics is complicated, but taking a random sample, you need surprisingly few answers to have a high confidence in the result. Choosing who you ask to get a truly representative sample is very important.


It really want random .. it was 2600 at the lending club …..they loan money to people in debt


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## Leann (May 5, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> As I live longer and longer I believe in surveys less and less.  Manufacturing all went south of the border and over to China.  All we seem to produce is surveys after surveys after surveys.  We are getting survived to death!
> 
> I do feel sorry for folks that are "down and out."  However, let's look at the big picture.  First of all, most folks have little or no discipline.  They want everything *NOW!*  The credit card has become the curse of this century for folks that have no restrain and no discipline.  The house in Canada are way too big.  Some homes of 3,000 square feet have only 2 people living there.  It's a crime!
> 
> ...


Years and years ago, a friend of mine worked in the county tax collector's office. She said that it wasn't uncommon for certain homeowners who had the beautiful large homes on acres of manicured land to literally arrive in her office on the day delinquent tax notices were being sent out (and which also meant that the property was going to go up for sheriff's sale if the taxes weren't paid) begging for extensions (after having been given several already) and emptying their pockets on the counter to just pay something towards their tax liabilities. 

When we were kids my Dad used to ask us who the richest person was.  Back then we'd say things like "Rockefeller" or "Aristotle Onassis" or whomever else we could think of. My Dad would say "No. The richest person is the one who has no debt".  Never forgot it because it's true.


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## hollydolly (May 5, 2022)

Leann said:


> Years and years ago, a friend of mine worked in the county tax collector's office. She said that it wasn't uncommon for certain homeowners who had the beautiful large homes on acres of manicured land to literally arrive in her office on the day delinquent tax notices were being sent out (and which also meant that the property was going to go up for sheriff's sale if the taxes weren't paid) begging for extensions (after having been given several already) and emptying their pockets on the counter to just pay something towards their tax liabilities.
> 
> When we were kids my Dad used to ask us who the richest person was.  Back then we'd say things like "Rockefeller" or "Aristotle Onassis" or whomever else we could think of. My Dad would say "No. The richest person is the one who has no debt".  Never forgot it because it's true.


Ergo I must be the richest person in the world.. because I am happy to say I have NO debt....thank God


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## StarSong (May 5, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Ergo I must be the richest person in the world.. because I am happy to say I have NO debt....thank God


Same here.  Haven't had a car payment in many, many years.  Finished the mortgage about 7 years ago.  Whew!


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## palides2021 (May 5, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Thankfully, my kids are doing quite well. Two of my grandkids are beginning to feel the pinch pretty dearly, but one of them lost his job. He's married but they don't have any kids, so that's good at least. His wife is still working.
> 
> Michelle and I are barely hanging in there at the moment. Michelle was talking about quitting school and going to work full-time. I don't want her to do that. She was also saying she'd get a license rather than a degree - be a pre-school teacher's aid rather than primary school teacher - but I don't want her to settle for that, either.
> 
> ...


Just read your post. I can empathize with your situation. I am glad that my husband and I paid off our mortgage before he retired because when he was gone three years later, I didn't need to worry about a mortgage. The mortgage is the biggest expense, in my humble experience, and we had taken care of that. But it took a few years to get to that point. We had to plan it several years in advance, and everything worked out. Our goal was to be financially independent and have no debt. I am very fortunate he took care of me in that way. Very fortunate.


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## Murrmurr (May 5, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> Just read your post. I can empathize with your situation. I am glad that my husband and I paid off our mortgage before he retired because when he was gone three years later, I didn't need to worry about a mortgage. The mortgage is the biggest expense, in my humble experience, and we had taken care of that. But it took a few years to get to that point. We had to plan it several years in advance, and everything worked out. Our goal was to be financially independent and have no debt. I am very fortunate he took care of me in that way. Very fortunate.


Since I can, maybe I should just buy a house outright. I was awarded a hefty sum in a lawsuit about 20 years ago. I didn't spend much of it and it's already earned back about what I spent. My plan was pay for the grandkids' college, but only 2 of them went to college. Two of them are still in their teens, but their parents already saved for their college. So I have enough for a decent house. Just seems weird after holding onto it for this long...which is kinda funny.


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## palides2021 (May 5, 2022)

Actually, a friend of ours asked the question when we told him my husband was planning an early retirement. Our friend asked, "Do you have your mortgage paid off?" We hadn't, because we were still living at that time in an area where the price of a home was very high, but we could afford it because my late husband was still working. We did the math and realized once he'd retire, we couldn't afford the high mortgage. So we sold that home and with the proceeds bought a home further away from the city at a very good price. He was able to retire shortly after that. It was the best decision we ever did.


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## Knight (May 5, 2022)

No paychecks coming in to worry about living paycheck to paycheck.  In retirement debt free I'm worried about what's going to happen when I'm 128 years old. That is when Fidelity says I'll have used up the money in my accounts paid out due to the mandatory required distributions.


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## Murrmurr (May 5, 2022)

Knight said:


> .. I'm worried about what's going to happen when I'm 128 years old ..


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## dseag2 (May 5, 2022)

We paid cash for our house 16 years ago, when I was 48 y/o, because we were fortunate enough to sell our house in South Florida (which was not nearly as nice as our house in Dallas) during the height of the real estate bubble and when Dallas real estate was still relatively cheap.  I told the realtor what my budget was, he tried to show us more expensive houses and I dug in my heels.  I knew what we could afford.  I paid off my car in 2020.  I pay off my credit card balance every month.  

I guess I am rich.  Our house is no mansion, but I am satisfied to just be comfortable and happy.


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## Don M. (May 5, 2022)

IMO, being Debt Free is the Most important factor for a decent retirement.  Having to contend with mortgages, and car payments, etc., just adds unnecessary stress when trying to live on a fixed income.  

We made our last house payment somewhere around 1990, and haven't paid a nickel in interest, since.  Now, If we need something, we pay cash....if we can't afford it, we likely don't really need it.


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## OneEyedDiva (May 6, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> *oops. I posted before I saw Diva’s post.*


No problem young lady.


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## Liberty (May 6, 2022)

We have a big house, but it never had a mortgage on it...as hub built it himself with our (mom and I) help and a couple of hired laborers.  It took 3 years to build. Yes its really big, but we've lived in it for 37 years on several acres of land and its home to us.  Home is where your heart is.  Nothing as good in retirement as to be able to enjoy living and that means being able to sleep at night.


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## Buckeye (May 6, 2022)

lol - my current house will be mortgage free in only another 29 years!  I'm sure I'll move at least one more time before then, so who knows.  My son can deal with the loose ends once I kick the proverbial bucket. 

As for that 64% living paycheck to paycheck, they should be glad they are not a part of the 500,000 homeless in America.


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## Wontactmyage (May 6, 2022)

Debt free here.


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## Em in Ohio (May 6, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> I'll take that hug, Autumn, thank you.
> 
> Michelle and I are still discussing it. We're going to do what's best for her, since she'll be here longer. She just needs to tell me what that is...and then we'll do what *I* think is best.


My two cents for Michelle:  Go for the degree certification to teach K-up in schools.  If you prefer preschoolers, you can always take that job (if money isn't your most pressing need.)


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## Em in Ohio (May 6, 2022)

My humble home and my humble car were both bought with cash.  Now that my ex died and my Social Security increased, I'm not in that pay-check to pay-check mode for once.  Phew.  My one credit card is used as a convenience, not as a necessity.  The only big fear that I have is a hospitalization.  A one week calamity would put me right back where I was, struggling to survive.  If 64% of the USA population is living pay-check to pay-check, I have to ask "Why?"  With government hand-outs and employers giving incentives and higher wages, is it merely a lifestyle issue and/or credit card debt?


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## hollydolly (May 6, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> My humble home and my humble car were both bought with cash.  Now that my ex died and my Social Security increased, I'm not in that pay-check to pay-check mode for once.  Phew.  My one credit card is used as a convenience, not as a necessity.  The only big fear that I have is a hospitalization.  A one week calamity would put me right back where I was, struggling to survive.


My car was also paid with cash.. and like you Em I don't routinely use my credit card.. I use my debit card , because I know whatever I load onto it is all I can spend... My daughter gets annoyed with me and tells me I should be using my CC's for all purchases because they're safer... but I like the way I do it, .. and that's the way it'll stay for now..

Fortunately we don't have your last worry here.... not yet, anyway...thanks be to God and the Queen.. or whoever is responsible for the NHS


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## C50 (May 6, 2022)

My best friend and his wife built a very high end home four years ago while they were both around 56 years old.  Both their daughters were just finishing college so they were soon to be empty nesters.  It really made no sense to me they would build such an extravagant home, and then he told me their goal was to pay it off by the time they hit 70!  I almost cried for them thinking of having to work all those extra years just to pay a mortgage.

Debt free is the only way to live for me.


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## Remy (May 6, 2022)

I was doing OK until the fires, then prices went up like crazy around here and my savings shrunk comparatively.

I have no debt but I rent.


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## Jeni (May 6, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> If 64% of the USA population is living pay-check to pay-check, I have to ask "Why?"  With government hand-outs and employers giving incentives and higher wages, is it merely a lifestyle issue and/or credit card debt?


It is many factors but i have seen the attitude that people of all AGES simply are as was told to me "comfortable with debt" 
you can finance almost anything ... and the payments can be kept low so you will be paying on basic items for a decade .......

so many want something NOW ... not when they saved up for it ..... 
phones costing over $1000 being a simple 20 bucks a month for YEARS 
cars financing stretched out and out ..... credit taken everywhere .....never had so much trouble when credit was not taken at basic places like grocery/ fast food etc .........
living a lifestyle some HOPE they can pay for down the road.


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## Em in Ohio (May 6, 2022)

Jeni said:


> It is many factors but i have seen the attitude that people of all AGES simply are as was told to me "comfortable with debt"
> you can finance almost anything ... and the payments can be kept low so you will be paying on basic items for a decade .......
> 
> so many want something NOW ... not when they saved up for it .....
> ...


Yes, I can only add that folks not only want things NOW as you mentioned, they want them NEW.  Growing up with parents born 1913-15, I was taught the value of hand-me-downs, loaner items, and second-hand stores. So, perhaps it can be attributed to "status" or "keeping up with the neighbors" mentality.


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## hollydolly (May 6, 2022)

Jeni said:


> It is many factors but i have seen the attitude that people of all AGES simply are as was told to me "comfortable with debt"
> you can finance almost anything ... and the payments can be kept low so you will be paying on basic items for a decade .......
> 
> so many want something NOW ... not when they saved up for it .....
> ...


Tis true what you say. I was browsing an online store.. might have been ebay or it could have been a high street store.. but there were choices on how to pay... one was a method I don't know, never heard of until now .. but my point is that they were giving the opportunity to pay for items on credit which were just a few pounds.. to pay for example at stupid weekly amounts like 20p a week.. I couldn't believe my eyes.

The problem with that is not only will they be saddled with the debt long after they've dispensed with the item..there's a very good chance that they'll forget what they bought.. because they can make many purchases at those rates... and then... even further to that.. here in the UK, you can file for bankruptcy which is what so many of them do who have chalked up massive credit card debts, and be discharged from bankruptcy in just 12 months and start all over again


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## Jeni (May 6, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> The problem with that is not only will they be saddled with the debt long after they've dispensed with the item..there's a very good chance that they'll forget what they bought.. because they can nake many purchases at those rates... and then... even further to that..at least here in the UK, you can file for bankruptcy which is what so many of them do who have chalked up massive credit card debts, and be discharged from bankruptcy in just 12 months and start all over again


the time frame here for bankruptcy  is 7 years .... but i knew of someone who floated along and did file for a second time after the 7 years were up.......
Credit companies will give credit to almost anyone....as well.


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## hollydolly (May 6, 2022)

Jeni said:


> the time frame here for bankruptcy  is 7 years .... but i knew of someone who floated along and did file for a second time after the 7 years were up.......
> Credit companies will give credit to almost anyone....as well.


It used to be 7 years here.. but not now. After 12 months you can apply for a credit card again...


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## David777 (May 6, 2022)

Posted earlier page 2 post #45 on how this working class person has never EVER taken out a loan and that includes never a car loan.   News feature today on how new style  credit loan companies are using smartphones credit apps to go after Gen Z and Millennials.  

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/influencers-lead-Gen-Z-into-debt-17142294.php


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## JimBob1952 (May 6, 2022)

I want to put in a kind word for "the kids", be they Millenials, Gen Z, whatever.  

When I was 22 I moved to New York.  A studio apartment on the Upper East Side cost $200 per month.   My college tuition had cost about $1500 per year, so no student debt.  I made a whopping $8500 per year, but I paid all my bills and had a little left over each month.  

47 years later, that same apartment is about $3500 per month.  The 22 year old now has massive student debt, plus his or her salary, while much more than $8500 per year, has nowhere near kept pace with rents.  

The point is, it's a lot harder to get ahead these days, or so it seems to me.  Even kids with good jobs and good salaries just get by.  It's not so much that they want it now, it's just that they can't afford much.


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## OneEyedDiva (May 7, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> My humble home and my humble car were both bought with cash.  Now that my ex died and my Social Security increased, I'm not in that pay-check to pay-check mode for once.  Phew.  My one credit card is used as a convenience, not as a necessity.  The only big fear that I have is a hospitalization.  A one week calamity would put me right back where I was, struggling to survive.  If 64% of the USA population is living pay-check to pay-check, I have to ask "Why?"  With government hand-outs and employers giving incentives and higher wages, is it merely a lifestyle issue and/or credit card debt?


Many people are working poor BUT make too much to qualify for the government assistance you speak of. I know someone who said she was getting $1 too much (one damned dollar) to qualify, still her income as a senior wasn't enough to pay her expenses. Blessedly one of her sons was able to help her with some bills. Yes, some people have over spent, racked up credit card debt BUT parents who work, even those making decent paychecks likely have car payments, mortgage or rent (which is sky high these days) and perhaps the expensive day care payments. The answers to your question "Why?" can have a multitude of answers.


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## OneEyedDiva (May 7, 2022)

I lived paycheck to paycheck when I was in my 20's. I had a "good" government job but wasn't paid that much. I was a single parent for much of that time. I got on city welfare for only a couple of months...couldn't wait to get off it. I learned to "pay myself first" thanks to a simple question a young bank teller asked me when I put $174 of my $175 paycheck (we got paid every two weeks) into my checking account. "Aren't you going to keep any of this for yourself?!" As if she knew all of it had to go toward bills. I'd thank her right now if I knew who she was.

During that time, to my surprise I got a major credit card (unsolicited), probably because my mother had opened a revolving credit account for me at a dress store where she shopped. I always paid off what I charged. So I also learned how to handle credit in my 20's. I never held a balance because I hated the thought of paying interest. I haven't paid bank fees of any kind in 50 years. I remained debt free (technically) throughout most of my life since I always paid my balances in full, except for the car payments on my new 1994 Camry and the purchase of our timeshare (interest waved) because it was to be paid off in a year. I retired debt free but soon after we had the kitchen and bathroom remodeled. We had to pay the contractors in full when the work was done...so again, didn't hold debt.

Recently I offered to loan my son quite a sum. He encountered unexpected bills after his wife passed and needed expensive car repairs. I paid all his charges (which I put on my cards) in full each month. Racked up some nice reward points. I worked out a 24 month, no interest payment plan for him. I can well afford to help and my son has always been diligent about paying me back on time. He was already under a lot of stress and heartache (well, we both were). I'm glad I could make things easier for him. As it stands now, my personal expenses, including my portion of our carrying charges (aka HOA fees) and utilities only takes up 40% of my net income not counting my investment income, which I don't take distributions from.


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## Capt Lightning (May 7, 2022)

I was delighted when, many years ago, my savings exceeded my outstanding debts - mortgage, car etc..  I managed to keep that going and built up reasonable savings which in those days returned 6 or 7% interest.  Having paid my children's university fees and cleared all my debts, things were a bit depleted, but at least there were no big outgoings.

We're living happily now with adequate savings and pensions.  Well, I wasn't so happy when I received my P60's (statement of income and tax paid) to see that having paid tax all my working life, I'm still paying a load of tax now that I'm retired!


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## Liberty (May 7, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> Yes, I can only add that folks not only want things NOW as you mentioned, they want them NEW.  Growing up with parents born 1913-15, I was taught the value of hand-me-downs, loaner items, and second-hand stores. So, perhaps it can be attributed to "status" or "keeping up with the neighbors" mentality.


I'm sure guilty of squeezing the use out of appliances and tools.  Had a gram scale for years that the button broke and I kept using a pen to fuss with it and  turn it on and off...finally one day it gave up the ghost and hub bought a new one online for 9 bucks.  Boy was it way better...lol.


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## BillBergfeld (May 11, 2022)

The current financial climate in the USA has forced many of us to rethink and retool our spending budgets.  Food prices and fuel seem to be hitting our pocket book the hardest.  With every adversity comes a seed of opportunity.  My wife and I have become more focused on our spending, and the benefit is that we have improved our communication with each other.


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## oldmontana (May 11, 2022)

Jace said:


> Just heard on the news...64% of the population is living paycheck-to-paycheck.
> 
> Hope ya'all are doing o.k. Be financially astute!


Me think that the biggest problem is that people are not thinking or caring about a rainy day or having a rainy day fund.


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## helenbacque (May 11, 2022)

I think the trend began with credit cards.  Too easy to use and too easy to just pay minimum amount.


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## Em in Ohio (May 11, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Many people are working poor BUT make too much to qualify for the government assistance you speak of. I know someone who said she was getting $1 too much (one damned dollar) to qualify, still her income as a senior wasn't enough to pay her expenses.


That was my situation for much of my life.  I had people-jobs that I loved, but they paid minimally.  Like your example, I was almost always "just over" the ridiculously low income limits to qualify for benefits.  I actually could have qualified for several assistance programs in recent years, but wanted to see if I could make it on my own until my ex died.  I proved that I could.  Covid shutdowns helped me to live a very minimalist lifestyle.  And when the ex passed, the increase in Social Security really helped.  By the way, you are very wise and I respect your input on financial matters!


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## StarSong (May 12, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Recently I offered to loan my son quite a sum. He encountered unexpected bills after his wife passed and needed expensive car repairs. I paid all his charges (which I put on my cards) in full each month. Racked up some nice reward points. I worked out a 24 month, no interest payment plan for him. I can well afford to help and my son has always been diligent about paying me back on time. He was already under a lot of stress and heartache (well, we both were). I'm glad I could make things easier for him. As it stands now, my personal expenses, including my portion of our carrying charges (aka HOA fees) and utilities only takes up 40% of my net income not counting my investment income, which I don't take distributions from.


You are a good, kind, supportive mother.  Happy belated Mother's Day - I salute you, my friend.


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## OneEyedDiva (May 12, 2022)

StarSong said:


> You are a good, kind, supportive mother.  Happy belated Mother's Day - I salute you, my friend.


Thank you so much StarI learned from my Mom.


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## StarSong (May 12, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Thank you so much StarI learned from my Mom.


I learned the same from mine.  Lucky us to have had such wonderful, supportive moms.


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## funsearcher! (May 24, 2022)

Lived that way before and hated it. Put money away for Emergency Fund and found some peace.


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## garyt1957 (May 24, 2022)

The % might be right but how many of those 64% are driving expensive cars, live i big houses, have $200 phone and cable bills, etc? There are people making $200K annually who are living day to day and that's ridiculous in my opinion.


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## ElCastor (May 24, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Bingo!  2,633 people surveyed when the US adult population is roughly 260 million?  Talk about a small sample. What's the definition of living month to month anyway?  No extra money anywhere?  No safety nets?  A missed month and you're living on the street?
> 
> A fuller picture:
> 
> ...


Thanks! A brilliant post.


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## OneEyedDiva (May 29, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> That was my situation for much of my life.  I had people-jobs that I loved, but they paid minimally.  Like your example, I was almost always "just over" the ridiculously low income limits to qualify for benefits.  I actually could have qualified for several assistance programs in recent years, but wanted to see if I could make it on my own until my ex died.  I proved that I could.  Covid shutdowns helped me to live a very minimalist lifestyle.  And when the ex passed, the increase in Social Security really helped.  By the way, you are very wise and I respect your input on financial matters!


Thank you for saying that Em  I admire your fortitude during rough times, am glad you saw your way clear when you needed to and are now finding the SS increase to be helpful.


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