# Seniors in Denial



## Don M. (Nov 13, 2019)

Recently, I have found out about a Senior Cousin and his wife who are apparently experiencing a sharp decline in their overall health, yet refuse to seek proper medical care/treatment.  They appear to have minimal financial problems, and have proper medical insurance, etc., yet refuse to acknowledge that they need help.  The other cousins, etc., are united in their concerns, but this couple seems to take any/all suggestions as criticism and are increasingly becoming isolated from those around them.  They do not have any children, so their siblings are having to deal with this.  

Has anyone run into a similar situation, and found a solution?  Since there are people on this forum who may have had experience with similar situations, I thought I would see if there are any suggestions out there.


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## Meanderer (Nov 13, 2019)

Their  sibling's methods seem to be driving your cousins  further away...maybe a new approach is needed?


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## win231 (Nov 13, 2019)

Whether or not medical care will help them or not depends on their illness.  Not all medical conditions can be helped - though we are conditioned to believe they can.
Perhaps your cousin & his wife understand this & choose to live as they see fit.  It is their right.


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 13, 2019)

I think that it's normal for elderly people to cling to their freedom and routine as their health declines, I'm pretty sure that I will.

IMO about all anyone can do is stay in contact and offer any support or assistance possible until some major event requires them to make a change.

Good luck!


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## Ladybj (Nov 13, 2019)

It is their right and they deserve to live out their life as to how they choose.  We do not like to see anyone, let alone family members needing help and refuse help.  If things get too bad for them, they may seek help but if not, its their choice. What are their ages?  My confidence in the medical arena on a scale of 1-10 - is more like a -1.


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## fmdog44 (Nov 13, 2019)

My older brother never saw a doctor or a dentist unless it was an emergency. He was a chronic alcoholic with a wife & two daughters and all he cared about was being at the bar. He eventually lost his drivers license then took up guzzling vodka in a chair outside his trailer. He died of asbestos poisoning which despite being a slow death was probably better than sclerosis of the liver. Either way to ignore any and all medical help is stupid.  He left his family nothing. His life was a waste.


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## Liberty (Nov 13, 2019)

We had a similar situation with mother in law.  She had survived her husband for 4 years and lived 1,500 miles away - way up north...lol.  We would go to see her, but she never would come down to Texas after her husband died.  She didn't drive or wouldn't fly.  She refused to move in with us.  I had good friends still in the town where she lived and where we were born and raised in, so I ask them to drop in on her from time to time.  We'd talk on the phone, but that was the extent of contact except when we came up to see her.

Basically there has to come a "decisive moment" for folks like this.  For her it came in the middle of the night...she called 911, because she was "frightened" and the state she lived in  - Ohio - had elder care laws... "wrote her up".  She was put in an assisted living center temporarily and that did it...we came up, rented a car, arranged for her house to be sold, went through it with her to choose what she wanted to keep, packed her in the Lincoln and drove her down to Texas to live with us.

She was 80 at the time and lived for another 15 years, last few years spent in a nursing home. Sigh. 

Think people like your cousin & wife have to get scared enough to catch their attention.


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## win231 (Nov 13, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> My older brother never saw a doctor or a dentist unless it was an emergency. He was a chronic alcoholic with a wife & two daughters and all he cared about was being at the bar. He eventually lost his drivers license then took up guzzling vodka in a chair outside his trailer. He died of asbestos poisoning which despite being a slow death was probably better than sclerosis of the liver. Either way to ignore any and all medical help is stupid.  He left his family nothing. His life was a waste.


You're missing an important point.  There is NO doctor or medicine that can help an alcoholic or any drug addict or smoker.  It wouldn't have mattered one bit if your brother saw doctors or dentists & your brother was probably well aware of that fact.  What miracles would you expect from them?
What is "stupid" is destroying one's health with lifestyle, then seeing doctors & expecting them to fix it.


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## Keesha (Nov 13, 2019)

win231 said:


> You're missing an important point.  There is NO doctor or medicine that can help an alcoholic or any drug addict or smoker.  It wouldn't have mattered one bit if your brother saw doctors or dentists & your brother was probably well aware of that fact.  What miracles would you expect from them?
> What is "stupid" is destroying one's health with lifestyle, then seeing doctors & expecting them to fix it.


I completely agree. Add on mental disorders, some dementia , a touch of fear and possibly a mini stroke or two and you’ve got a hot mess.

These people don’t want anything to change. They want what they are used to and people coming in changing things up isn’t one of them no matter how helpful.


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## Catlady (Nov 13, 2019)

@Don M. =  Sometimes the ''cure'' is worse or more frightening than the actual illness.  I am also ''doctor and drug averse'' so will wait until the last minute to seek help.  They're adults and should have the freedom and rights to live their life their way.  They obviously resent the admonitions,  "*are increasingly becoming isolated from those around them*", so pushing them is not the way to handle it.  When they ''reach bottom'' I'm sure they will reach out for help or call 911 if need be.


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## Keesha (Nov 13, 2019)

PVC said:


> @Don M. When they ''reach bottom'' I'm sure they will reach out for help or call 911 if need be.


Not necessarily so. People who are more on the  narcissistic side are too stubborn / arrogant to ask for help and sometimes they get too scared or incapacitated to even call 911.

People who only seek doctors when they absolutely have to don’t foresee things like strokes or falls which may land them in hospital so talking about it IS exactly what they do need.

In the last 3 years I have gone through this with my folks who absolutely refused to go into a retirement home or nursing facility. If this is the case then they need to have a plan and the finances to be able to die with dignity at home.

If they don’t plan this when they can then the choices might be out of their hands. Others will make these choices for them.

The law regarding this is that you can live as you like as long as you are not a harm to yourself or others. Once you become incapacitated, there’s a good chance you ARE a harm to yourself and others but just don’t know it which IS dangerous.

I won’t go into the problems I encountered regarding this but it can become a real train wreck waiting to happen.


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## Mike (Nov 13, 2019)

Maybe they already know Don, they might have
seen a Doctor not too long ago, but want to keep
the results private.

The only other way would be to get a senior organisation
to ask when they last had a check-up and that they can
arrange one, to see how they can better advise them about
diet, exercise etc.

Mike.


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## treeguy64 (Nov 13, 2019)

I will be one of those people who lives life in the way I see fit, making adjustments along the way, until said life is not worth living.  Barring complete mental degradation to the point where I am no longer "me," my exit plan is clear and of no danger to anyone else.  

As I constantly wonder:  Why do so many, including some in here, actually PLAN for the time when they cannot live without assistance?  For me, that would be Hell on Earth, and I would rather implement Plan A, as above, than endure the ministrations and patronizing services of those in the professional care giving industry.  I have had exposure to the same, through visits to ancient friends and relatives, and those experiences still haunt me when I put myself in the starring role!


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## Keesha (Nov 13, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> I will be one of those people who lives life in the way I see fit, making adjustments along the way, until said life is not worth living.  Barring complete mental degradation to the point where I am no longer "me," my exit plan is clear and of no danger to anyone else.
> 
> As I constantly wonder:  Why do so many, including some in here, actually PLAN for the time when they cannot live without assistance?  For me, that would be Hell on Earth, and I would rather implement Plan A, as above, than endure the ministrations and patronizing services of those in the professional care giving industry.  I have had exposure to the same, through visits to ancient friends and relatives, and those experiences still haunt me when I put myself in the starring role!


As morbid as this conversation is, I can’t express how upsetting it is to watch your parents lose their capacity and not want help. People don’t normally know how they are going to die and most don’t care to but if your body out lives your brain, it’s a horrible thing to go through; especially if ‘you’ didn’t   previously communicate your wishes when and if this happens.

A mini stroke can change your entire life and all those around you. Not all seniors know enough to call 911. Some get so incapacitated they don’t realize they are incapacitated.

Apparently  30% of dementia patients become aggressive. Even people who have been mild mannered their entire life can become aggressive when dementia hits. It’s shocking and somewhat scary.


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## Catlady (Nov 13, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Apparently  30% of dementia patients become aggressive. Even people who have been mild mannered their entire life can become aggressive when dementia hits. It’s shocking and somewhat scary.


My daughter told me that one of her friends was a caregiver for her mother who had Alz.  The friend said her mother had been a very sweet person, yet sometimes she would grab her arm and bite it.


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## Keesha (Nov 13, 2019)

PVC said:


> My daughter told me that one of her friends was a caregiver for her mother who had Alz.  The friend said her mother had been a very sweet person, yet sometimes she would grab her arm and bite it.


It’s eye opening. I have the upmost respect for those working in geriatrics. I never realized the complexity of aging before but thank goodness for professionals.

Unfortunately I wasn’t in a position to care for parents.


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## win231 (Nov 13, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> I will be one of those people who lives life in the way I see fit, making adjustments along the way, until said life is not worth living.  Barring complete mental degradation to the point where I am no longer "me," my exit plan is clear and of no danger to anyone else.
> 
> As I constantly wonder:  Why do so many, including some in here, actually PLAN for the time when they cannot live without assistance?  For me, that would be Hell on Earth, and I would rather implement Plan A, as above, than endure the ministrations and patronizing services of those in the professional care giving industry.  I have had exposure to the same, through visits to ancient friends and relatives, and those experiences still haunt me when I put myself in the starring role!


Same here.


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## RedAlert (Nov 13, 2019)

Unless they become a threat to their selves or others many times there is nothing you can do.


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## Catlady (Nov 13, 2019)

treeguy64 said:


> As I constantly wonder:  *Why do so many, including some in here, actually PLAN for the time when they cannot live without assistance?*  For me, that would be Hell on Earth, and I would rather implement Plan A, as above, than endure the ministrations and patronizing services of those in the professional care giving industry.


That depends on the kind of assistance.  I would not want to have someone wipe my butt or change my diaper or even give me a bath/shower, spare me the indignity.  BUT, I would have no problem getting assistance such as cleaning my house, bringing me meals/cooking, doing errands, doing laundry, taking care of the yard.  There is no shame getting that kind of help and I plan to pay for it when I can no longer do it myself.  I'd rather commit suicide than end up in a nursing home, I plan to age at home or end it all when no longer possible.


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## treeguy64 (Nov 13, 2019)

PVC said:


> That depends on the kind of assistance.  I would not want to have someone wipe my butt or change my diaper or even give me a bath/shower, spare me the indignity.  BUT, I would have no problem getting assistance such as cleaning my house, bringing me meals/cooking, doing errands, doing laundry, taking care of the yard.  There is no shame getting that kind of help and I plan to pay for it when I can no longer do it myself.  I'd rather commit suicide than end up in a nursing home, I plan to age at home or end it all when no longer possible.


I hear you. I guess it's simply a matter of degree, as in how much is too much when it comes to assistance. I do not have any problem, whatsoever, having someone mow my lawn, although I prefer to do it myself. Cleaning my house, I have had people over, occasionally, to do that, but we're talking from the time I was in my thirties, and very infrequently, as in less than five times. Any personal hygiene tasks are not going to be assigned to any care giver. That's where I draw the line, except during an acute illness, and Janet will take care of me, then, as I will take care of her. We've both had each other's backs for around fifteen years, now, and that's fine. If one of us is no longer around, the other will decide how to handle situations as they arise.


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## Ladybj (Nov 14, 2019)

PVC said:


> @Don M. =  Sometimes the ''cure'' is worse or more frightening than the actual illness.  I am also ''doctor and drug averse'' so will wait until the last minute to seek help.  They're adults and should have the freedom and rights to live their life their way.  They obviously resent the admonitions,  "*are increasingly becoming isolated from those around them*", so pushing them is not the way to handle it.  When they ''reach bottom'' I'm sure they will reach out for help or call 911 if need be.


I totally agree - Sometimes the "cure" is worse or more frightening than the actual illness".  THAT IS SOOOO TRUE.   That is why a lot of people deal with their issues without meds or try natural remedies.. (if their illness is not life threatening or causing Chronic pain).

I think about how many Blood Pressure med recalls there are due to serious complications they can cause such as cancer, etc.  And the side effects of some of these meds.. smh..  You go to the doc for stomach pain and end up taking 5 different meds..  Maybe one day the pharmaceutical companies and doctors will realize all meds does not fit all.


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## Camper6 (Nov 14, 2019)

Ladybj said:


> I totally agree - Sometimes the "cure" is worse or more frightening than the actual illness".  THAT IS SOOOO TRUE.   That is why a lot of people deal with their issues without meds or try natural remedies.. (if their illness is not life threatening or causing Chronic pain).
> 
> I think about how many Blood Pressure med recalls there are due to serious complications they can cause such as cancer, etc.  And the side effects of some of these meds.. smh..  You go to the doc for stomach pain and end up taking 5 different meds..  Maybe one day the pharmaceutical companies and doctors will realize all meds does not fit all.


It depends on your doctor when it comes to pills. My doctor is leaning to less not more.


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## Liberty (Nov 14, 2019)

Camper6 said:


> It depends on your doctor when it comes to pills. My doctor is leaning to less not more.


Yep, that's the way to go and its  a two way street - reasoning with the doc or simply thanking them for their "opinion" even if you don't want to go the pill route for whatever ails you. No one lives for ever here in the flesh.


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## Ladybj (Nov 14, 2019)

Camper6 said:


> It depends on your doctor when it comes to pills. My doctor is leaning to less not more.


Your doc is one in a million.  

Before retiring, I use to work for a Surgical group and there are so many people age 50 and over (some younger) that are on at least 5 different type meds.  My adopted mother (that is what I call her - my biological mom passed on) is 80 and she is oh my goodness on about 15 different meds.  She does not take them all..  Whenever her dr prescribe her a new med if she is not comfortable with it, she have me look it up for her.  She is still driving... so far, she is ok.  She lives in a different State.


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## Keesha (Nov 14, 2019)

My doctor is awesome. He’s a retired old guy of about 70 who biked across Newfoundland last May in FOUR days. He prescribed my cannabis before it became legal and really listens to what I have to say.

For the record, I won’t plan or opt for a nursing home either. Once others have  to change me, feed me and wash me, there’s nothing worth living for any more. I’d rather die alone  with dignity.


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## Liberty (Nov 14, 2019)

Keesha said:


> My doctor is awesome. He’s a retired old guy of about 70 who biked across Newfoundland last May in FOUR days. He prescribed my cannabis before it became legal and really listens to what I have to say.
> 
> For the record, I won’t plan or opt for a nursing home either. Once others have  to change me, feed me and wash me, there’s nothing worth living for any more. I’d rather die alone  with dignity.


Just wondered...is assisted suicide permitted in Canada?  It is in a couple states in the US.  Hub says if it gets that bad he want's a one way ticket to Oregon.  Issue is, by the time it gets that bad, might not be able to make the trip...lol.


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## Keesha (Nov 14, 2019)

Liberty said:


> Just wondered...is assisted suicide permitted in Canada?  It is in a couple states in the US.  Hub says if it gets that bad he want's a one way ticket to Oregon.  Issue is, by the time it gets that bad, might not be able to make the trip...lol.


You bet it is.


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## win231 (Nov 14, 2019)

Ladybj said:


> I totally agree - Sometimes the "cure" is worse or more frightening than the actual illness".  THAT IS SOOOO TRUE.   That is why a lot of people deal with their issues without meds or try natural remedies.. (if their illness is not life threatening or causing Chronic pain).
> 
> I think about how many Blood Pressure med recalls there are due to serious complications they can cause such as cancer, etc.  And the side effects of some of these meds.. smh..  You go to the doc for stomach pain and end up taking 5 different meds..  Maybe one day the pharmaceutical companies and doctors will realize all meds does not fit all.


Exactly.  Doctors tend to treat patients as if they were all in the same text books they studied.
I learned many years ago - almost the hard way - when I followed the insulin advice of my first 2 diabetes doctors - & almost ended up in a coma or dead from hypoglycemia.  Their advice may have applied to half of their patients, but not to me.


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## win231 (Nov 14, 2019)

Keesha said:


> You bet it is.





Liberty said:


> Just wondered...is assisted suicide permitted in Canada?  It is in a couple states in the US.  Hub says if it gets that bad he want's a one way ticket to Oregon.  Issue is, by the time it gets that bad, might not be able to make the trip...lol.


True.  That's why I have a "back up plan."  Well...it's sorta messy & noisy, but I'd go outside & wrap up in plastic.  I doubt someone would be in any condition to travel.


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## win231 (Nov 14, 2019)

Ladybj said:


> I totally agree - Sometimes the "cure" is worse or more frightening than the actual illness".  THAT IS SOOOO TRUE.   That is why a lot of people deal with their issues without meds or try natural remedies.. (if their illness is not life threatening or causing Chronic pain).
> 
> I think about how many Blood Pressure med recalls there are due to serious complications they can cause such as cancer, etc.  And the side effects of some of these meds.. smh..  You go to the doc for stomach pain and end up taking 5 different meds..  Maybe one day the pharmaceutical companies and doctors will realize all meds does not fit all.


Not when the profit is so high.


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## Catlady (Nov 14, 2019)

Ladybj said:


> Before retiring, I use to work for a Surgical group and there are so many people age 50 and over (some younger) that are on at least 5 different type meds.  My adopted mother (that is what I call her - my biological mom passed on) is 80 and she is oh my goodness on about 15 different meds.



The last time I saw a regular doctor was in early 2012 (I see my ENT 3 times a year).   In the waiting room I saw several old people with plastic bags full of prescription bottles, they ask you to bring them in to check them.  Right away after some blood tests he wanted to put me on 3 medicines.  I refused and he said I was taking chances.  I told him I knew that.  Almost eight years later I am still drug free and still alive, maybe it's luck or maybe my body can fight it on its own.  I always believe in the adage,  "What doesn't kill you makes your stronger".  Right or wrong, I am not a pill popper.


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## Catlady (Nov 14, 2019)

Keesha said:


> You bet it is.


I envy you, I'm still trying to figure out how I'm gonna make my exit.  Hope I die in my sleep.


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## Jaylee (Nov 14, 2019)

win231 said:


> Exactly.  Doctors tend to treat patients as if they were all in the same text books they studied.
> I learned many years ago - almost the hard way - when I followed the insulin advice of my first 2 diabetes doctors - & almost ended up in a coma or dead from hypoglycemia.  Their advice may have applied to half of their patients, but not to me.


I haven't seen a doctor since 2007. I made serious changes in the way I live my life - especially how I eat (no sugar) - and I've never been healthier.


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## Liberty (Nov 14, 2019)

Keesha said:


> You bet it is.


Now that is a bonified real alternative for you then.  My mother in law spent almost 9 years flat on her back
in a nursing home.  She died at 95.  I say "why bother".


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## win231 (Nov 14, 2019)

PVC said:


> The last time I saw a regular doctor was in early 2012 (I see my ENT 3 times a year).   In the waiting room I saw several old people with plastic bags full of prescription bottles, they ask you to bring them in to check them.  Right away after some blood tests he wanted to put me on 3 medicines.  I refused and he said I was taking chances.  I told him I knew that.  Almost eight years later I am still drug free and still alive, maybe it's luck or maybe my body can fight it on its own.  I always believe in the adage,  "What doesn't kill you makes your stronger".  Right or wrong, I am not a pill popper.


IMO, pharmaceutical companies (and doctors who accept their perks) have figured out something:  Everybody dies, so why let it go to waste? We can prescribe a bunch of drugs & make a fortune before they're gone.  At the same time, they'll think we're helping them & their mindset will be:  "We're living longer & better because of drugs & doctors."  (how many times have we heard that BS?)


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## Keesha (Nov 14, 2019)

Liberty said:


> Now that is a bonified real alternative for you then.  My mother in law spent almost 9 years flat on her back
> in a nursing home.  She died at 95.  I say "why bother".


That’s very sad Liberty. My parents are currently heading into the nursing home facilities. Unfortunately I didn’t have any power to help them. 
Its certainly changed how I feel about aging and the system but I’ve learned so much from it in what not to do.


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## Keesha (Nov 14, 2019)

PVC said:


> Hope I die in my sleep.


Don’t we all. 
I think I’ll have a difficult time with my husband over this decision though.


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## Keesha (Nov 14, 2019)

PVC said:


> The last time I saw a regular doctor was in early 2012 (I see my ENT 3 times a year).   In the waiting room I saw several old people with plastic bags full of prescription bottles, they ask you to bring them in to check them.  Right away after some blood tests he wanted to put me on 3 medicines.  I refused and he said I was taking chances.  I told him I knew that.  Almost eight years later I am still drug free and still alive, maybe it's luck or maybe my body can fight it on its own.  I always believe in the adage,  "What doesn't kill you makes your stronger".  Right or wrong, I am not a pill popper.


Right on. I’m not a pill popper either. 
There were always plenty of alternative medicines that worked before conventional/ modern medicine evolved.


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## Ladybj (Nov 14, 2019)

PVC said:


> The last time I saw a regular doctor was in early 2012 (I see my ENT 3 times a year).   In the waiting room I saw several old people with plastic bags full of prescription bottles, they ask you to bring them in to check them.  Right away after some blood tests he wanted to put me on 3 medicines.  I refused and he said I was taking chances.  I told him I knew that.  Almost eight years later I am still drug free and still alive, maybe it's luck or maybe my body can fight it on its own.  I always believe in the adage,  "What doesn't kill you makes your stronger".  Right or wrong, I am not a pill popper.


LOVE  IT!!!!   We have to be our own healthcare advocate.  

Not to go into specifics but my doc tried to put me on a certain med and after reading the side effects and what it did to others.. I passed on it. That med was SUPER expensive. I did not have to pay for it but I could not believe the cost.  Had I taken it, I know for a fact I will probably be on about 4 other meds trying to fix the side effects and even worst, in pretty bad shape health wise.


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## Ladybj (Nov 14, 2019)

Jaylee said:


> I haven't seen a doctor since 2007. I made serious changes in the way I live my life - especially how I eat (no sugar) - and I've never been healthier.


Same here Jaylee... I try to eat pretty healthy.  I take my flaxseed oil, vitamin d3, no red meat, mostly chicken and fish, salads, etc.  I know I will not live forever, but I want to enjoy and be as healthy as I can while I am still alive. I do not and will not be stricken in a hospital bed or any bed during the last phase of my life which could last for years.


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## Tom Young (Nov 14, 2019)

We retired at age 53 in1989... Some scares... cancer for me...had a lot to do with the decision... then 3 years later, a stroke for jeanie... 

That was 31 years ago... Now, married for 61 years, and very happy.  We planned for the later years.  In 2004, while we were still snowbirding Illinois/Florida, we made the plan for the later years, and moved into our "Liberty Village" CCRC, here in IL.  

We live in a "Villa" a 1600 s.f. regular home, that we own... built for seniors.  Liberty Village is a Continuous Care Retirement Community .  79 Villas, then 69 independent living apartments, 60 assisted living apartments, a "bounce back" center for recovery from illness... Then a 65 unit nursing home, and then... a 60 unit "memory lane" Alzheimer unit.  

I have stage 4 Alzheimers that is very slow onset.   We both feel that whatever happens, we're covered, and won't be a burden to our kids.  We have support in our "Campus", for a social life,  and have lived here now for 15 years... a normal happy life.  @ age 84, we look forward to the next 10 years (or so).

We are at peace for whatever might happen.  

https://libertyvillageofperu.com/


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## Ladybj (Nov 14, 2019)

Tom Young said:


> We retired at age 53 in1989... Some scares... cancer for me...had a lot to do with the decision... then 3 years later, a stroke for jeanie...
> 
> That was 31 years ago... Now, married for 61 years, and very happy.  We planned for the later years.  In 2004, while we were still snowbirding Illinois/Florida, we made the plan for the later years, and moved into our "Liberty Village" CCRC, here in IL.
> 
> ...


Your post touched my heart.  You guys planned your life very well.  Sorry to hear about the Alzheimers... So glad to hear you are at Peace.. that is PRICELESS!!!!  Here's to 10+ more years


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## Ladybj (Nov 14, 2019)

Tom Young said:


> We retired at age 53 in1989... Some scares... cancer for me...had a lot to do with the decision... then 3 years later, a stroke for jeanie...
> 
> That was 31 years ago... Now, married for 61 years, and very happy.  We planned for the later years.  In 2004, while we were still snowbirding Illinois/Florida, we made the plan for the later years, and moved into our "Liberty Village" CCRC, here in IL.
> 
> ...


If I have a day when I feel down, I will read your post.. I am a bit teary eyed.. happy tears for you and your wife.  Man no post has touched me like this one for various reasons.


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## win231 (Nov 14, 2019)

Ladybj said:


> LOVE  IT!!!!   We have to be our own healthcare advocate.
> 
> Not to go into specifics but my doc tried to put me on a certain med and after reading the side effects and what it did to others.. I passed on it. That med was SUPER expensive. I did not have to pay for it but I could not believe the cost.  Had I taken it, I know for a fact I will probably be on about 4 other meds trying to fix the side effects and even worst, in pretty bad shape health wise.


I think one of the reasons patents don't question the need for meds is because their insurance is paying for it.


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## Ladybj (Nov 14, 2019)

win231 said:


> I think one of the reasons patents don't question the need for meds is because their insurance is paying for it.


True and the doctor say they need it...which they may/may not.  It is just so sad to me that some elderly people are on so much medication and they probably don't need as much as they are prescribed.


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## Ladybj (Nov 14, 2019)

win231 said:


> Exactly.  Doctors tend to treat patients as if they were all in the same text books they studied.
> I learned many years ago - almost the hard way - when I followed the insulin advice of my first 2 diabetes doctors - & almost ended up in a coma or dead from hypoglycemia.  Their advice may have applied to half of their patients, but not to me.


That's why my confidence in the medical world on a scale of 1-10 is a -1.  What may help one person, may not help the next.


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## win231 (Nov 14, 2019)

Ladybj said:


> True and the doctor say they need it...which they may/may not.  It is just so sad to me that some elderly people are on so much medication and they probably don't need as much as they are prescribed.


Something else that's also sad:  When someone dies, & their death is related to prescription drugs, they rarely mention that.
One example:  When Bob Hope was hospitalized, reporters were asking his doctor what caused the emergency.  The doctor said, "It was a GI Bleed."  But, he didn't mention that uncontrolled intestinal bleeding is a common side effect of blood thinners (which some doctors are now admitting have questionable benefit....besides the increased risk of falls when taking them)
My dad almost bled to death from daily aspirin.  I took him to the ER several times.  On the 3rd occasion, the ER doctor told me, "He's lucky; he was a couple minutes from bleeding out."  I tossed his "Children's Aspirin" out, even though his doctor told me he should continue taking it "to prevent a stroke or heart attack."   Yeah....thinning blood also raises the risk of a bleeding stroke - something else they don't tell you.
BUT, on the front of every box of Cheerios, it says "Cheerios Lowers Cholesterol."  Anything to sell crap, including bogus health benefits.
Well, he somehow lived another 10 years without blood thinners.


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## Ladybj (Nov 14, 2019)

win231 said:


> Something else that's also sad:  When someone dies, & their death is related to prescription drugs, they rarely mention that.
> One example:  When Bob Hope was hospitalized, reporters were asking his doctor what caused the emergency.  The doctor said, "It was a GI Bleed."  But, he didn't mention that uncontrolled intestinal bleeding is a common side effect of blood thinners (which some doctors are now admitting have questionable benefit....besides the increased risk of falls when taking them)
> My dad almost bled to death from daily aspirin.  I took him to the ER several times.  On the 3rd occasion, the ER doctor told me, "He's lucky; he was a couple minutes from bleeding out."  I tossed his "Children's Aspirin" out, even though his doctor told me he should continue taking it "to prevent a stroke or heart attack."
> Well, he somehow lived another 10 years without blood thinners.


SHM...  He almost bled to death and his doc informed him to keep taking them??...AGAIN SMH.  I agree, we never hear when people die of prescription drugs..you know why, because that would hurt the pharmaceutical companies.


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## win231 (Nov 14, 2019)

Ladybj said:


> SHM...  He almost bled to death and his doc informed him to keep taking them??...AGAIN SMH.  I agree, we never hear when people die of prescription drugs..you know why, because that would hurt the pharmaceutical companies.


Yes, & the doctor already has an answer when you ask the question, "If it almost killed him, why should he continue taking it?"
"Because the risk of a stroke or heart attack at his age is higher."
Well, we can't really expect the doctor to say, "Hey....do ya know anything about business?"


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## Ladybj (Nov 14, 2019)

win231 said:


> Yes, & the doctor already has an answer when you ask the question, "If it almost killed him, why should he continue taking it?"
> "Because the risk of a stroke or heart attack at his age is higher."
> Well, we can't really expect the doctor to say, "Hey....do ya know anything about business?"


WOW!!!  Exactly.


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## Liberty (Nov 15, 2019)

win231 said:


> Something else that's also sad:  When someone dies, & their death is related to prescription drugs, they rarely mention that.
> One example:  When Bob Hope was hospitalized, reporters were asking his doctor what caused the emergency.  The doctor said, "It was a GI Bleed."  But, he didn't mention that uncontrolled intestinal bleeding is a common side effect of blood thinners (which some doctors are now admitting have questionable benefit....besides the increased risk of falls when taking them)
> My dad almost bled to death from daily aspirin.  I took him to the ER several times.  On the 3rd occasion, the ER doctor told me, "He's lucky; he was a couple minutes from bleeding out."  I tossed his "Children's Aspirin" out, even though his doctor told me he should continue taking it "to prevent a stroke or heart attack."   Yeah....thinning blood also raises the risk of a bleeding stroke - something else they don't tell you.
> BUT, on the front of every box of Cheerios, it says "Cheerios Lowers Cholesterol."  Anything to sell crap, including bogus health benefits.
> Well, he somehow lived another 10 years without blood thinners.


Yes we are all different. These meds can sometimes save lives...its debatable at what cost...and sometimes hasten the inevitable.  "Medical misadventure" is what they call the drug related deaths.  One big issue is the fact they prescribe drugs for seniors by weight, and they need to look at the fact seniors aren't like middle age people.  So often hear of overdoses by those sensitive to them, and sundowner's  from being put too far under during operations. 

Could give you several examples, but probably most of you know some, too. One tip is to not let your dentist prescribe a "heavy duty" antibiotic.  The dental malpractice rates are low and they want to keep them there.  Very strong antibiotics for senior can tip the scales if they are taking other meds, like it did with my MIL.


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