# Rusty's crate aggression



## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

We have had Rusty for about 4 years, got him from a _dog rescue_ that a friend of ours runs.  He was mistreated and abandoned with a broken leg, left in a vacant lot in Beaumont. Rusty is a sweet loving boy, but when it's time to go in his crate he becomes *Cujo*. When shutting the crate door he barks and snarls, lunging at the crate door as it closes. That lasts about 5-10 seconds then subsides. Rusty has never been forced into the crate, he willingly walks right in, seems to like his little space. I suppose he's being defensive of his space, but don't quite know how to help him get past the ugliness.


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## Pepper (Jan 7, 2023)

How would you like to be in a crate?  I don't get it; are you afraid of him wandering somewhere while you sleep in a real bed, not a cage?  It's a cage, not a crate!  I don't get this crate stuff for dogs, I just don't.  Never heard of this until recently.


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## Happy Heart (Jan 7, 2023)

We aren't dogs but many feel more secure in a smaller space while they sleep and it keeps them off the bed and prevents them from wondering at night.  
Rusty looks wonderful!  Does putting a treat in his crate before she goes in keep him distracted?  Does he like music?  We had a cat that would zone out to peaceful, quiet place when I played a particular music box for her.  As you said, it seems like he is being defensive of his space, or just saying "hey look where I am",  so maybe just letting this behavior subside over time is best.  He is what he is, and thank you for being a wonderful guardian.


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

Happy Heart said:


> Does putting a treat in his crate before she goes in keep him distracted?  Does he like music?


I used to put a treat in the crate, but just a few days ago I discontinued that as I'm thinking it might be a trigger for his aggressiveness.   When my wife feeds the dogs Rusty watches her if she's still nearby after she puts down his food bowl.  Once she walks away he'll relax and eat.     I would really like to find a solution, as it's just a shame to end a pleasant day on such a negative note.


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## Pepper (Jan 7, 2023)

In what countries is crating a dog illegal?

*Sweden and Finland* have made crate training illegal and they are only to be used for transportation, dog shows, and during exceptional cases when the dog is recovering after a surgery or trauma. Why are the opinions about crate training so divided?Mar 16, 2021
Crate Training. Why Is It Illegal in Sweden and Finland? - Dogo App


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## HoneyNut (Jan 7, 2023)

Nathan said:


> I used to put a treat in the crate, but just a few days ago I discontinued that as I'm thinking it might be a trigger for his aggressiveness.


It will be interesting to know whether that helps.  The behavior does sound like food protectiveness.


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

Pepper said:


> How would you like to be in a crate?  I don't get it; are you afraid of him wandering somewhere while you sleep in a real bed, not a cage?  It's a cage, not a crate!  I don't get this crate stuff for dogs, I just don't.  Never heard of this until recently.


Crating a dog is a very common practice, I wasn't aware that some people don't understand or might make negative assumptions.
Our dogs are very well taken care of, we feed them top quality food to keep them healthy, keep them in the house, although they do have access via doggie doors to go out to potty, or bark at the UPS truck.    We don't let them out at night unsupervised, as there are coyotes and mountain lions.   We take them out to go potty right before bedtime, then they go in their crates, we then go to bed.    They are fine in their crates until morning, they are let outside to go potty and them have breakfast...then they go back to sleep on the couch or someone's lap.


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## Happy Heart (Jan 7, 2023)

Pepper said:


> In what countries is crating a dog illegal?
> 
> *Sweden and Finland* have made crate training illegal and they are only to be used for transportation, dog shows, and during exceptional cases when the dog is recovering after a surgery or trauma. Why are the opinions about crate training so divided?Mar 16, 2021
> Crate Training. Why Is It Illegal in Sweden and Finland? - Dogo App


From the article:  _Crate training can be cruel if it’s done inappropriately. Leaving your dog in a crate throughout the entire date is animal cruelty.  _I totally agree with this, but Nathan isn't leaving Rusty in a crate all day so not sure what the post is about.


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## Pepper (Jan 7, 2023)

Although I never had a dog of my own, I have lived with dogs, other people's dogs, and at night they would usually 'camp out' on my guest bed, as I was the new curiosity, and it was always fine by me.  All sizes.


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## Happy Heart (Jan 7, 2023)

Nathan said:


> Crating a dog is a very common practice, I wasn't aware that some people don't understand or might make negative assumptions.
> Our dogs are very well taken care of, we feed them top quality food to keep them healthy, keep them in the house, although they do have access via doggie doors to go out to potty, or bark at the UPS truck.    We don't let them out at night unsupervised, as there are coyotes and mountain lions.   We take them out to go potty right before bedtime, then they go in their crates, we then go to bed.    They are fine in their crates until morning, they are let outside to go potty and them have breakfast...then they go back to sleep on the couch or someone's lap.


Will you adopt me if I come back as dog?  You sound like wonderful guardians.  We also have coyotes, racoons and bob cats in our area and would never leave a dog outside overnight.  Pepper's article isn't what the headline suggests.


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## Tish (Jan 7, 2023)

@Nathan I wish I had some good advice on this subject, but I do not, with the exception of putting his favorite soft toy and blanket in there with him.


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## Myrtle (Jan 7, 2023)

Some dogs hate crates. My son has a dog that is a hunting breed. Son started working in another state and took the dog with him. Because of long shifts he found a dog sitter. All went well until the sitter crated the dog while she left the house. The dog broke out of the crate. This happened twice more with different sitters before son took time off to drive the dog home. The dog now stays here happily with a friend who doesn’t use crates but my son doesn’t get to see him very often.

Maybe you could have the dog trained to stay off the bed or to avoid whatever behavior you are trying to stop?


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## Nemo2 (Jan 7, 2023)

Point of order here......are we talking about _Dogs _or 'Barking Cats'?   (Don't get up, I'll show myself out.)


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## dobielvr (Jan 7, 2023)

May be he doesn't want you to close the door???

Or may be he wants you to leave him the remote to the TV.


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## Michael Z (Jan 7, 2023)

How old is he? After 10 yrs old, dogs can get progressively nuttier, just like us old folks! Our 11 yr old shelty barks and even snarls all the time (although we do not cage her up at all), but it is herding instinct and not real aggression, although it looks like it - and it gets more common as she gets older.


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## Knight (Jan 7, 2023)

We don't have a dog but if we did we probably would use something like this.

https://www.chewy.com/frisco-steel-...MInK3rmqi2_AIVVxutBh2nywCCEAQYAyABEgI0evD_BwE

collapsible for storage out of the way during the daytime


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

Michael Z said:


> How old is he? After 10 yrs old, dogs can get progressively nuttier, just like us old folks! Our 11 yr old shelty barks and even snarls all the time (although we do not cage her up at all), but it is herding instinct and not real aggression, although it looks like it - and it gets more common as she gets older.


Rusty is 10 this year, he has been doing the crate aggression all along, our friend from whom we adopted Rusty told us about it, beforehand.
Rusty is getting a bit weird, during the day if nobody is in the living room he'll start barking, like he's bored or telling us he's lonely.  When I'm on the treadmill he usually lays down on a nearby  thick rubber pad.


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## HoneyNut (Jan 7, 2023)

Nathan said:


> got him from a _dog rescue_ that a friend of ours runs. He was mistreated and abandoned with a broken leg


How was he rescued?  I've watched dog rescue youtubes and lots of times they have to set a cage trap and the animals freak out when they are caught because they are frightened.  Or even just from being snared and then put in a cage for transporting to the animal hospital.  Maybe Rusty has a bad memory that the closing of the door triggers.

I can't think of how to retrain a dog, my experience is more with horses.


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## Della (Jan 7, 2023)

I have nothing really against crating, but my own big dogs always slept on their own bed on the floor and never got into any trouble at night.  Well there was that one birthday cake I had left cooling on the kitchen table, but other than that  everything was fine. 

I'm older now and want my little dachshund in bed with me, under the covers, cuddled up behind my knees.  Who's going to stop us?


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

HoneyNut said:


> How was he rescued?  I've watched dog rescue youtubes and lots of times they have to set a cage trap and the animals freak out when they are caught because they are frightened.


From what our friend told us, someone found Rusty in a field and collected him up, then turned him over to her.    Here is Rusty's(formerly REX) page from his adoption post: https://www.saveasmalldogrescue.org/animals/detail?AnimalID=12866106
We don't believe he's a Carin Terrier, but rather a mix of Silky Terrier and Lhasa Apso, due to his skeletal structure.


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## RadishRose (Jan 7, 2023)

Why do you put dogs into a crate at all?

Let Rusty go in as he wishes. Just leave the door open. He does not want that door closed.


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## Bellbird (Jan 7, 2023)

I wonder if Rusty's aggression stems from his life before you took him. He had a broken leg.!  It is quite possible that this is where it all stems from. Some advice from a vet. would probably help, and some retraining.


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

Tish said:


> @Nathan I wish I had some good advice on this subject, but I do not, with the exception of putting his favorite soft toy and blanket in there with him.


Rusty has a couple nice blankets in his crate, he arranges them to his liking.    His favorite toy(s) are six rubber balls. I could do an experiment and give him one as I close the door.


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

RadishRose said:


> Why do you put dogs into a crate at all?


Because it's not safe for them to go outside(to potty) at night, and they won't potty in their crates.     

When we lived down in the city we left the doggie door unblocked at night, and the dogs could go out if they needed to, but there wasn't coyotes and cougars roaming the area either.


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## RadishRose (Jan 7, 2023)

My dog will not "go" in the house. As she gets older and can't hold it, I might expect an accident now and then, so I have pee-pads at the ready.

Maybe your Rusty is getting to the age when holding it is getting too difficult? Just a thought....


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## Pepper (Jan 7, 2023)

Nathan said:


> Because it's not safe for them to go outside(to potty) at night, and they won't potty in their crates.
> 
> When we lived down in the city we left the doggie door unblocked at night, and the dogs could go out if they needed to, but there wasn't coyotes and cougars roaming the area either.


Why don't you just block the door?


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## Blessed (Jan 7, 2023)

I have never used crates but do use baby gates to keep them away from access to the front door. I will also move them about the house if I have workers, like the plumber here. I don't know a lot about doggie doors but I do not have one. I was always worried about critters coming in thru them.  We also have wildlife that could be a danger to my littles.

I am also one that allows my littles to sleep in or on my bed.  The big dog sleeps on the floor on my side of the bed. 

My sister uses crates but she never closes the doors once she has the pup trained. To them it is just bed, if they are acting up when company comes, she tells them bed, they go right in and lay down.


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## Tish (Jan 7, 2023)

Nathan said:


> Rusty has a couple nice blankets in his crate, he arranges them to his liking.    His favorite toy(s) are six rubber balls. I could do an experiment and give him one as I close the door.


That might work.
I do have to wonder if his aggression stems from someone ( Not You) dragging him out of the crate violently.


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

Pepper said:


> Why don't you just block the door?


We do.


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

Tish said:


> That might work.
> I do have to wonder if his aggression stems from someone ( Not You) dragging him out of the crate violently.


That could very well be.   Rusty's aggression suggests that someone has abused him, been rough with him, taunted/teased him, IMO.
The groomer had trouble with him at first, as she has crates at the shop.  And, while combing-brushing-blowdrying his hair he's tried to bite her. When that happens she calmly slips a muzzle on him, and he just settles down.


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## Blessed (Jan 7, 2023)

Little picture of my Toby, kind of a twin to Rusty. Also a rescue, hates the groomer, hates a bath at home, has the most annoying bark, is food agrresive to a 90lb chow, does not like to let his brother eat at all. He is my problem child but I love him and spoil him as I would any dog.


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## Gemma (Jan 7, 2023)

Nathan said:


> Rusty is 10 this year, he has been doing the crate aggression all along, our friend from whom we adopted Rusty told us about it, beforehand.
> Rusty is getting a bit weird, during the day if nobody is in the living room he'll start barking, like he's bored or telling us he's lonely.  When I'm on the treadmill he usually lays down on a nearby  thick rubber pad.


Separation anxiety.  He's fine when he sees you but barks when everyone is out of sight.  

Why the crate at night?  Is he not housebroken if he's not crated during the night?

In all the years I've had animals for pets, (dogs, cats, raccoons) I never once crated or caged any of them.  To me, It just seems inhumane to do so. 

Perhaps be the "Rusty whisperer."  Whisper to him, where he has to really concentrate on what you are saying to him.  You'd be amazed how well that works to calm an animal.


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## Lewkat (Jan 7, 2023)

Nathan said:


> We have had Rusty for about 4 years, got him from a _dog rescue_ that a friend of ours runs.  He was mistreated and abandoned with a broken leg, left in a vacant lot in Beaumont. Rusty is a sweet loving boy, but when it's time to go in his crate he becomes *Cujo*. When shutting the crate door he barks and snarls, lunging at the crate door as it closes. That lasts about 5-10 seconds then subsides. Rusty has never been forced into the crate, he willingly walks right in, seems to like his little space. I suppose he's being defensive of his space, but don't quite know how to help him get past the ugliness.
> 
> View attachment 261083


Maybe it the closing of the door that upsets him,Nathan.  That would bother me too.  I have never crated a dog so, I could be wrong.


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

Blessed said:


> Little picture of my Toby, kind of a twin to Rusty. Also a rescue, hates the groomer, hates a bath at home, has the most annoying bark, is food agrresive to a 90lb chow, does not like to let his brother eat at all. He is my problem child but I love him and spoil him as I would any dog.


Toby and Rusty do look a lot alike.  We had a Toby, she was and her mother Lady were Schnauzers.  They were good girls. 

Here's our Toby, sitting with Onyx:


Onyx loved to smash up against Toby. Toby would cringe...


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## Nathan (Jan 7, 2023)

Lewkat said:


> Maybe it the closing of the door that upsets him,Nathan.  That would bother me too.  I have never crated a dog so, I could be wrong.


Yes, that's definitely a trigger, and seemingly the crux of the problem.


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## Blessed (Jan 7, 2023)

Nathan said:


> Toby and Rusty do look a lot alike.  We had a Toby, she was and her mother Lady were Schnauzers.  They were good girls.
> 
> Here's our Toby, sitting with Onyx:
> View attachment 261158
> ...



Your Toby does not seem to be cringing, looks like good friends to me. My two little dogs snuggle. I thought over time they would come to love the big dog.  Never any snuggling and the strange part is my Toby was fostering with a great dane.  I have pictures of him curled up with a huge dog but won't give his big brother any love.  The best it gets is okay, I'll tolerate you and it has been 3 years. Thought the two littles would have embraced him by now.


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## Tish (Sunday at 2:17 PM)

@Nathan I just found this, I typed calming dog hoodie into google.



They range between $9 - $16, I think you can get away with cutting the top of a sock and using that.
Apparently, this thing calms them.


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