# FINAL UPDATE post #46 - Clueless? Presumptuous? Or Rude?



## applecruncher (Jul 23, 2015)

Saw this at another site that I frequent:

_*"My sister found a note stuck in her mailbox as she was leaving the house for work this morning. The note said:

“Hi Neighbor! Sorry for the short notice, slipped my mind. Please take in all our mail and newspapers or any random paper you see. There could be a couple UPS packages coming, not sure when. We won’t be back until the 3rd. Our cruise has limited access to phone or internet – scary! LOL!!”

Sister is flabbergasted. She has lived next door to this couple for 4 years, but has never had a relationship*_* with them other than good morning or hello or nice weather we’re having. She is struggling with the moral obligation, but doesn’t want to feel like a pushover either. Sister also mentioned if she doesn’t help, then she will have to face these people when they return."

*I say presumptuous. There was no relationship. They could have called and asked. Not sure I would want responsibility for their mail and packages. For all they know, the neighbor might be planning to go out of town for a week. "LOL" indeed.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 23, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> Saw this at another site that I frequent:
> 
> _*"My sister found a note stuck in her mailbox as she was leaving the house for work this morning.  The note said:
> 
> ...






I say an invitation to friendship. What's the big deal, be a neighbor and do ask they ask.  I do things like that for my neighbors and they do for me.  It's called being a good neighbor.


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## applecruncher (Jul 23, 2015)

Replies so far:

1) How utterly presumptuous of the neighbors!
While your sister certainly doesn't have to do that favor, I would do it because being on good terms with my neighbors is very important to me. That being said, when they come by to retrieve their mail and packages I would definitely say something to them. Probably something along the lines of "Hey, I was happy to bring in your mail and stuff, but if there is a next time please _ask_ me _before_ you leave! What if I had been going out of town too?"

2) I would do it, if I was able, but I wouldn't go round to drop it off once I saw them come back. I'd wait for them to come knock on my door to pick everything up and I'd mention at that point, 'I'd appreciate it if you ask me ahead of time, if there is a next time.'

3) That's nearly two weeks of mail-getting. And presumed responsibility for someone else's mail. I'd be definitely raising an eyebrow - and that's assuming nothing goes wrong. What if these UPS packages turn out to be the kind that have 10 pairs of shoes or a mini-fridge in them? What if something goes missing? I had the latter problem when I was semi-forced into sharing a mailbox with someone -- I was never asked if I wanted to be responsible for this person's mail, but when something went missing, I got dragged into the drama.

4) Their lack of planning is not your emergency, but I don't know if I want to make this my hill to die on with neighbors. However, they're being pretty careless- what if Sis was planning to be away as well? 

5) I would probably do it (to preserve a decent neighbor relationship), but I would have to say something to them after they got back. Like others have said, they had no way of knowing if sister was going out of town as well. The post office will hold mail, and if they get a daily newspaper, they will also hold or stop your paper. 

6) I would not do it and if they asked me later I’d pretend I never got the note. Would have no interest in being friends with these people after 4 years of basically nothing.

7) Yes, it is a bit entitled/snowflakey. I would l still do it cheerfully because honestly, I like to have my neighbours a bit "in my debt" so I can also ask for favours.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 23, 2015)

I guess I missed all those replies.


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## Falcon (Jul 23, 2015)

I fully agree with everything you said (above). That's the epitome of presumptuousness.

Those  people have more nerve than a canal horse.


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## Cookie (Jul 23, 2015)

Why can't we see the posts that these replies were in?

Anyway, I think its not a big big deal.  She could collect the mail and if there's a UPS and she's home, OK, if not, also OK. Also could mention she would like to be warned if there's a next time, in case she's not available.


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## applecruncher (Jul 23, 2015)

A couple more replies:

8) I'd note down their address on the note and take it down to the PO to see if they'd put a hold on the neighbour's mail, then put a note in their mailbox to say what you've done. If that isn't possible, I'd just bite the bullet and do it. Now if they'd asked in person, no problem at all. But the 'oops! LOL! Ta ta!!' note just irks me.

Maybe keep an eye out for the parcels though, if they're non-postal service there's minimal likelihood of getting a hold put on them.


9) A moral obligation to people your sister hardly knows? I vote Special Snowflake in spades.Yes, we want to be on good terms with our neighbors but there are limits and this note crosses them like Evel Kneivel jumping across the Grand Canyon.

Yes, there are many details to be taken care of before a vacation. Notifying the Post Office and having newspaper delivery suspended are as basic as making sure your passports are up to date. Ordering stuff to be delivered while you're on vacation is just irresponsible. 

If sister wants to do this, s/he can be considered a good person or a doormat for doing so. Your sister works, so it’s not like she’s bored and has nothing better to do. As far as going to the post office and “keeping an eye out for their packages from UPS”, what is she – their personal secretary or assistant? Personally, I would not care to develop a friendship with these people (especially after 4 years of, as someone else said, basically nothing.) Not that desperate for friends.


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## AZ Jim (Jul 23, 2015)

Any chance we could stick with what folks on THIS forum think?


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## Cookie (Jul 23, 2015)

Too long, didn't read.


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## applecruncher (Jul 23, 2015)

Another reply:

10) I'd check for mail/packages/newspapers every 2-3 days if I felt generous or if something was obviously piling up. They have a lot of cheek.

Thankfully they didn't demand sister water the houseplants, feed the pets, flip on and off lights/tv, or mow the lawn too while she was at it.


11) Honest question here, since I don't get the paper, but is it really a thing to come home from vacation and then read through 12 days' worth of newspapers? 

I personally do not like anything about this situation, not the note, the tone, and the last-minute nature of the "request." I'd probably compromise so I could live with myself, and bring in the UPS packages they are expecting. Depending on the neighborhood layout, they could be out in the open and sometimes people do steal deliveries. I wouldn't care about the newspapers, and I'd assume that the mail would be in the mailbox, if their setup is similar to what I grew up with. 

Or would that - doing half the job - be even ruder than pretending never to receive the note?


12) OP, was the note addressed to your sister by name or did it actually read "Hi Neighbor"? I ask because it sounds so generic, like they don't even know their neighbor's name, which adds to the special snowflakiness of the whole thing.

I would be a tad annoyed that they would presume but I'd go ahead and do it anyway since for me it wouldn't be too much of a hardship. I'd definitely say something to them when they got back, though. 

.


.


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## Susie (Jul 23, 2015)

So very rude! I would notify the Post Office immediately, explain the situation, show the note, plead with the P.O. to hold all mail and packages.
Would not touch mail and packages at any time (there could be some kind of legal implication!)
(I collect mail for neighbor whenever asked!!)


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 23, 2015)

In the past, if we went out of town on a trip, we would ask a neighbor who we were friendly with to get our mail, and offered payment at first, but of course it was refused.  We give those folks a little gift at Christmas time to show our appreciation just for being a good neighbor, even though we have used post office holds on our mail for many years. 

I think it was rude and presumptuous of that person not to ask first and give some notice.  If it were me, I would collect the mail and have a talk with that neighbor on their return, making it clear that if they want me to do something like that again, they must give me notice.  Who knows, perhaps I planned on being gone during that time also.  I certainly wouldn't consider myself a doormat for doing so, I think that's overly-dramatic.

We put a hold on our mail and newspapers when we go out of town, as we don't like to take advantage of our neighbor's kindness when not necessary.


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## RadishRose (Jul 23, 2015)

What's the big deal? So what if they presumed. My goodness, just take in the mail, packages and fuggetabbouttit. Sure the neighbor would have done better to ask first or have the mail held but I can't believe they went to all this fuss....they must consider themselves very precious, ugh.


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## applecruncher (Jul 23, 2015)

Susie said:


> So very rude! I would notify the Post Office immediately, explain the situation, show the note, plead with the P.O. to hold all mail and packages.
> Would not touch mail and packages at any time (there could be some kind of legal implication!)
> (I collect mail for neighbor whenever asked!!)



Why shoud the neighbor notify the post office? (They should have done this themselves, far in advance of the day they left.) The post office doesn’t accept requests from third parties to hold someone else’s mail; a form has to be signed. What is she supposed to do – take time off work to deal with their mess? I would not be getting that deeply involved.

I didn’t see anything which indicated they do each other favors back and forth; they have only exchanged “hellos” over the course of 4 years. The generic note may as well been addressed “To whom it may concern”. Neighbor was not asked to collect mail, etc. - essentially she was told/directed to do so (albeit gently), and to not bother them becuse they won't be accessible.

I think sister can either do as they asked or not. If she chooses to do the favor, she should (when they return) make it clear it’s a one-time thing and it was an imposition. Otherwise they will do it again; the note suggests they are users and think they can “LOL” their way out of anything.  People love to toss around the "LOL".

I also noticed the sentence about “having to face them” I don’t see why that’s a worry.….they should be worried about having to face HER, the person they imposed upon.

You're right about possible legal implications....if any mail or packages are missing or damaged.


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## Shalimar (Jul 23, 2015)

Perhaps a bit inconsiderate/thick. I would take in the mail and request a warning re any further "requests." not worthy of a freak out IMHO.


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## imp (Jul 23, 2015)

That "remote-livin' " member has no such intrusions into her daily existence! One thing to say in favor of having no close-by neighbors.    imp


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## tnthomas (Jul 23, 2015)

No relationship=no responsibility to respond to an orchestrated guilt trip/manipulation attempt.  

Sorry for the jaded response, I'm just not the "easy touch"(eg- "sucker") that I was when younger.


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## Cookie (Jul 23, 2015)

I have lots of neighbors, but they wouldn't dream of impose without prior arrangements. Besides our mailboxes are door slots.


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## Butterfly (Jul 23, 2015)

I think the "tone" of the note is quite presumptuous.  I get other people's mail in for them all the time, but I'm asked to do it, not instructed.  Nevertheless I'd do it in the spirit of neighborliness. As someone said above, not a hill to die on.


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## Linda (Jul 23, 2015)

I would take in the mail and not worry about it.  I would tell them I would want an advance notice next time.   None of my neighbors are that rude thankfully.


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## hollydolly (Jul 24, 2015)

Cookie said:


> I have lots of neighbors, but they wouldn't dream of impose without prior arrangements. Besides our mailboxes are door slots.



So are ours, in which case I would hold their letters and small packages for them,  but packages from UPS _et al_ have to be taken in and signed for. I'm afraid if I got such a note from a 'neighbour' who didn't even know my _name_ much less have the etiquette to ask me in advance in person , I definitely would not be signing for packages on their behalf, nor potentially shouldering responsibility  for packages which may go  astray!!


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## SifuPhil (Jul 24, 2015)

I'd go through the mail looking for checks and money orders, check for packages from Amazon and throw away everything else. There - I've done my neighborly duty.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 24, 2015)

Very rude to ask that way!  We also have a mail slot in our door, no need to ask anyone.  And we never have any big packages arriving while we are away.


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## oldman (Jul 24, 2015)

How do they know if your sister wasn't also going to be out of town? Then what? But, if I was going to be around, I would do it and then have a little talk with them upon their return.


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## Bullie76 (Jul 24, 2015)

Susie said:


> So very rude! I would notify the Post Office immediately, explain the situation, show the note, plead with the P.O. to hold all mail and packages.
> Would not touch mail and packages at any time (there could be some kind of legal implication!)
> (I collect mail for neighbor whenever asked!!)



I would probably do this. If the P.O. wouldn't do it, I would collect the mail for them but also let them know I preferred  being asked beforehand next time as I might not be around when they are gone. I'm chalking this up as a possible clueless case. Lots of people just don't think things through.


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## AprilSun (Jul 24, 2015)

My first thoughts were, "Is someone pulling a joke on either family?"  I guess I'm too suspicious of people because my next thoughts were if I didn't know them any better than that, I would probably not touch it "with a ten foot pole" because I would wonder, what they are up to. What are they trying to pin on me?


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## applecruncher (Jul 24, 2015)

Keeping in mind this was a situation I saw posted on another site…

Several people asked questions and the OP came back to clarify. The note was addressed to “Hi Neighbor” – the sister does not even know the names of the vacationing couple and apparently they don’t know her name either. There is no relationship – the only contact they’ve had is a “Hello” wave a few times a year. They live in a house across the street and mailbox is at the front door.

There were quite a few more replies that I didn’t copy and post here, but I like this one the best:

_I'd be scared to comply in case it was a set-up of some kind. What if it's just a prank by someone else? Then sister would be taking large packages and would be considered a thief if caught. What if it is a legitimate thing but sister drops a package or her apartment floods or her cat pees on a package? The neighbors will blame her. Who knows what’s in the mail and packages? Could be something illegal – not unheard of these days.

There are too many what-ifs. And with people this entitled, if someone steals their credit card number, they'd probably put the blame on sister If a package is missing they would suspect and blame sister. Too many liabilities.

If sister acquiesces this time, the neighbors will get even more emboldened and order more unreasonable requests in the future.

I'd probably feign that I didn't get the note at all. After all, it could have gotten stuck to other junk mail and accidentally tossed. Etiquette allows one to ignore unreasonable requests from people one doesn’t even know.

I wouldn't touch their mail or packages with a 10 foot pole. I wouldn’t even consider taking time to go to the post office or calling the newspaper and trying to make arrangements for their mail and newspapers. 

I like being neighborly, I don't mind doing small favors, and I like keeping the peace. But I don’t like the gall of these people and I just see too many ways that sister can get wrongly blamed or framed for things. It wouldn't be worth it to me._


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## Debby (Jul 24, 2015)

I'm not sure because it's been a few years since I went on any kind of holiday but I think if you ask Canada Post to hold mail, they charge you for it.  But maybe it's different in the US?  If it's the same, then asking the Post Office to hold their mail could result in someone having to pay that charge and a whole new issue to be irritated about.


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## applecruncher (Jul 24, 2015)

I don't see that as an issue, Debby.  There is no charge for holding mail here in the US (which is where this happened).  But even if there was people going on a cruise cn afford to pay a few dollars, and the point is they should have contacted the post office themselves.  Their problem, their responsibility.


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## Lon (Jul 24, 2015)

No Big Deal I see nothing wrong with the request.  I would be a "Good Neighbor" and comply.


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## doat (Jul 24, 2015)

But mail on hold or have a family member pick it up.   Do for yourself. Don't expect others to do for you.


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## LindaE (Jul 24, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> No relationship=no responsibility to respond to an orchestrated guilt trip/manipulation attempt.
> 
> Sorry for the jaded response, I'm just not the "easy touch"(eg- "sucker") that I was when younger.



I'm afraid I must agree with this. I wouldn't do it. It's not my responsibility, especially to people I barely know, plus I was never given notice ahead of time. If they ask me why I never took in their mail, etc, I'd simply say, "Wups... it slipped my mind."


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## LindaE (Jul 24, 2015)

doat said:


> But mail on hold or have a family member pick it up.   Do for yourself. Don't expect others to do for you.



We need a "like" button on this forum


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## AZ Jim (Jul 24, 2015)

LindaE said:


> We need a "like" button on this forum



That's what reputation is all about.  You like the post hit the little star on the left of the bottom of the post.


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## LindaE (Jul 24, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> That's what reputation is all about.  You like the post hit the little star on the left of the bottom of the post.



Oh! Cool, thanks, I didn't know that


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## Davey Jones (Jul 24, 2015)

I would call the US Postal service and UPS to cancel deliveries to that address until further notice.......


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## applecruncher (Jul 24, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> I would call the US Postal service and UPS to cancel deliveries to that address until further notice.......



The vacationing couple should have taken proper steps to hold all mail and packages.

I’m _really_ not understanding why anyone feels the put-upon neighbor should try to deal with canceling their mail and package delivery.  She wasn’t asked to do that – she wasn’t _asked _to do anything.  She was given a note telling her to collect their mail, etc.

Also, no one can cancel mail and packages for someone else – especially when they don’t have certain identifying information. Think of what a mess it would be if they could; a great way to harass someone (like turning off their utilities, which also is illegal).


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## AprilSun (Jul 24, 2015)

I just couldn't do it and feel comfortable about it. It sounds too fishy to me and that is why I couldn't feel comfortable. I would just tell them if they asked about it later, "Oh, do you mean you were serious? I didn't know if someone was pulling a joke on one of us or if it was really from you?" No, they might not speak to me again but after 4 years and I didn't know them any better than that, I don't think I would miss them and certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it. One thing is for sure, they had the nerve to do it that way.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 24, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> Saw this at another site that I frequent:
> 
> _*"My sister found a note stuck in her mailbox as she was leaving the house for work this morning.  The note said:
> 
> ...



More manipulative than anything. The letter writer/person who wants the packages and mail taken care used or created a sense of emergency/urgency so the neighbor had little or no choice nor time to think. Most think of themselves of as "neighborly" and there for will act accordingly-this is what the neighbor counted on.


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## applecruncher (Jul 25, 2015)

UPDATE:

From the OP of the “pick up our mail/packages” story on another site - see my opening post:

_*"Sister arrived home last evening and after twenty minutes, her doorbell rings. She looks out and sees two ladies and asked “Yes?" One lady held up a picnic basket, “We have the cheesecakes from (xxxxxxx)”. Sister opened her door and saw two more picnic baskets on the step and the other lady holding another basket. The lady who spoke said “Liz” (apparently the neighbor who wrote the note) told them to deliver to her neighbor at 123 Main Street as she was leaving for a cruise. Sister was fuming, but knew it wasn’t the delivery ladies’ fault. She told the two ladies she did not have room to store the cheesecakes and to return them where they came from, sorry. Sister closed the door.

This morning, Sister walked around the side of the house and saw the four baskets sitting near her bushes. Each basket had 2 cheesecakes – total eight! (Must have been for an event, or a group order.) One cheesecake might have been a thank you gift, but who knows? :shrug: She returned to the house, got her phone and took pics. She took note of the organization tag hanging from one of the baskets and asked was I familiar with it, I told her no. The tag only said, "With Compliments, XXX Organization. xxxorg.com." She is currently preparing an email to the organization where the cheesecakes came from. I am waiting to hear from her again. She is quite upset."

*__//////

_AC here - 

Hmmmm. Interesting how they had time and presence of mind to arrange alternate delivery of 8 cheesecakes but couldn't bother to put a hold on their mail and newspaper.

I would find a phone number and call that organization, reminding them I told the delivery ladies I didn't have storage space and to return the cheesecakes. I would confirm via email (whether or not I was able to reach someone via phone). Then I would take those baskets and sit them on neighbor's doorstep. Let someone steal them, let the critters have a go at them. Whatever.

I would be SO done with those neighbors, their mail, their packages, AND their cheesecakes.


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## LindaE (Jul 25, 2015)

I'd do the exact same as you, AC, take them all over to said neighbor's house and leave them on the front porch.


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## hollydolly (Jul 25, 2015)

My god it's beginning to sound like something from Candid Camera now..only not amusing for the people on the receiving end..


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## JustBonee (Jul 25, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> My god it's beginning to sound like something from Candid Camera now..only not amusing for the people on the receiving end..



There's a TV show here in the states called 'What Would You Do'? ... sure sounds like one of their skits!


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## applecruncher (Jul 25, 2015)

Holly & Bonnie -
Yeah, I might ask "Okay, where are the cameras? Where is John Quinones?" (host of "What Would You Do?")


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## LindaE (Jul 25, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> My god it's beginning to sound like something from Candid Camera now..only not amusing for the people on the receiving end..



Good point. I wonder, if these people complied with everything, that they'd win some kind of monetary prize.


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## applecruncher (Aug 4, 2015)

FINAL UPDATE

Remember the Entitled Neighbor story?  Neighbor returned from her cruise vacation yesterday and I was curious as to what happened.

So……..

"*Sister arrived home from work at her normal time and was very nervous.  Neighbor’s car was in the driveway and their side rear gate was open with several boxes standing nearby.  Sister went inside her house to grab the mail bin.  She decided to speak directly to neighbor and wash her hands of this situation.  This is how she described what went down:

(ring bell)
(ring bell)
(ring bell, knock-knock)
(door opens)
Neighbor (N): oh hi, got our mail?
Sister (S):  hi, yes, what I gathered, I put in this bin – here you go
N:  wait I got something for you (walks away)
S:  (waiting)
N:  (comes back) sorry for all the trouble (hands sister a plastic bag with a cruise logo)**
S:  (takes bag) thank you
N:  it’s a raspberry swirl cheesecake
S:  (stunned silence)
N:  anything else?
S:  no, nothing else, just please do not count on me in the future for your mail or packages, it was  . . .
N:  (cut sister off) yeah-yeah-yeah, we won’t, we have someone else lined up who can handle it – have a good evening (closes door)
S:  (walked back to house, threw plastic bag in her kitchen garbage)

Sister admits she is hurt and angry, but glad it is over – really over.  As far as her relationship** with neighbor, I asked did she feel any different, she said no.  Just that she will continue as she always has fo*_*r the past four years – a nonexistent neighbor relationship*__*, which is fine with her.*_"

Wow.  Just…wow.


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## Shalimar (Aug 4, 2015)

Sometimes, the adage "no kind deed goes unpunished," really applies. Sigh.


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## SifuPhil (Aug 4, 2015)

I'm glad I'm a sociopath.


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## Shalimar (Aug 4, 2015)

Me too, Phil. So much materiel for my new book: The Senior Sociopath......


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## AprilSun (Aug 4, 2015)

It sounds like the neighbor is pissed because your sister didn't take care of the 8 cheesecakes they expected her too. They were lucky she got their mail after the bad way they pushed it on her. Your sister did better than I would have done if it had been me. After that kind of response, I would not have kept my mouth shut although I know it would not have helped matters any except maybe my feelings! They are a poor excuse for neighbors!


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## applecruncher (Aug 4, 2015)

AprilSun said:


> It sounds like the neighbor is pissed because your sister didn't take care of the 8 cheesecakes they expected her too. They were lucky she got their mail after the bad way they pushed it on her. Your sister did better than I would have done if it had been me. After that kind of response, I would not have kept my mouth shut although I know it would not have helped matters any except maybe my feelings! They are a poor excuse for neighbors!



It wasn't _my_ sister - see the opening post; this was something I saw on another site. However, since she did collect their mail (which I would not have done) she should have made them come get it at her convenience. I would not have touched that cheesecake - no way.  I also think the comment about "we found someone else who can handle it" was snarky.


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## LindaE (Aug 4, 2015)

Thank you for posting the update, I was curious as to what happened. However, given the nature of said neighbor from the beginning, her reaction to the sister doesn't surprise me one bit.


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## AprilSun (Aug 4, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> It wasn't _my_ sister - see the opening post; this was something I saw on another site. However, since she did collect their mail (which I would not have done) she should have made them come get it at her convenience. I would not have touched that cheesecake - no way.  I also think the comment about "we found someone else who can handle it" was snarky.



Whoop, sorry about that. I knew that but when I made this post, it had slipped my mind. As I tell everyone, "I've slept since then so I must have slept it off".


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## applecruncher (Aug 4, 2015)

no problem, AprilSun.


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Aug 4, 2015)

1.)  Lady should have checked neighbor's home and front yard for security cameras/trail cameras, etc.  If any cameras are found, leave everything alone.  Otherwise, this could be a setup where the neighbors claim they did not receive a valuable package, blame you, but collect from insurance.  Then you have to deal with law enforcement and prove you didn't take it.
2.)  Finding no cameras, go ahead and pick up mail/packages.
3.)  Investigate packages to see if anything nice/useful.
4.)  When neighbor returns, take them their mail and only one of the packages.
5.)  Once they discover missing packages, just tell them you only picked up the mail every two to three days and someone must have stolen them.
6.)  As neighbors are going totally bonkers, shouting and yelling and threatening the lady... her muscular male friend brings out the remaining valuable packages.  
7.)  Tell the neighbor, "Lesson learned.  Ask before you assume.  I'll pick up your mail anytime... with personal notification.  It'll set on your doorstep and rot if you pull the note-under-the-door trick again."
8.)  It sounds like she wasn't on their "Christmas card list" anyway.


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