# Facing "Real" Retirement -- and Scared



## JimBob1952 (Dec 20, 2022)

I've been working from home for the last 13 years, doing marketing and PR writing.  It's been great.  For the first 7 or 8 years I made a lot of money.  Things have been tapering off gradually.  

Now it looks like it's time to hang it up altogether.  This scares me for two reasons:  

1)  The money will stop.  We have SS and what I think is enough money saved up.  We're 70, so it doesn't have to last forever.  But is it really enough?  

2)  I won't have a "thing" that I'm supposed to do during the day.  Theoretically, I can write other things, practice the piano, get better at golf, do more volunteering.  But I'm nervous that I'll just sit around, goof off on the Internet, read and waste time.  

Mercifully, my wife and I are both healthy.  We have some traveling we would like to do, but funds are not unlimited.  

Any other SFers in a similar situation?


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## Llynn (Dec 20, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> But I'm nervous that I'll just sit around, goof off on the Internet, read and waste time.


You say that as though it is a bad thing. 

I had many of the same concerns. I decided to relax and let things happen. Turns out it has never been the trouble or travail I worried about. Enjoy your freedom.


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## hearlady (Dec 20, 2022)

I was surprised at how busy I am in retirement. That's just around the house. We haven't done much traveling yet.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 20, 2022)

"I'm nervous that I'll just sit around, goof off on the Internet, read and waste time."

None of that is a waste of time, and besides, if you're still reasonably healthy, it's a passing phase. When I was at that point I went and got a foster-care license. The classes and training are free and it only took a few months. Not the right move for everyone, but I'm really glad I did it.


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## horseless carriage (Dec 20, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I've been working from home for the last 13 years, doing marketing and PR writing.  It's been great.  For the first 7 or 8 years I made a lot of money.
> 
> Any other SFers in a similar situation?


Same here, 77 next birthday, retire? That's what old people do. Whilst I have my health and strength I will work on. It fills my day like no other.  I get appreciation for a job well done, interesting work, companionship, being in the know about company matters. stimulus and a sense of being valued as part of a team, despite my age. Ahem, the money's not bad either.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 20, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> "I'm nervous that I'll just sit around, goof off on the Internet, read and waste time."
> 
> None of that is a waste of time, and besides, if you're still reasonably healthy, it's a passing phase. When I was at that point I went and got a foster-care license. The classes and training are free and it only took a few months. Not the right move for everyone, but I'm really glad I did it.


Interesting.  I'm in a volunteer program that provides mentoring and support for kids who have aged out of the foster care system.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 20, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> Same here, 77 next birthday, retire? That's what old people do. Whilst I have my health and strength I will work on. It fills my day like no other.  I get appreciation for a job well done, interesting work, companionship, being in the know about company matters. stimulus and a sense of being valued as part of a team, despite my age. Ahem, the money's not bad either.


Plus, someone has to fund that sartorial splendor!


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## horseless carriage (Dec 20, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Plus, someone has to fund that sartorial splendor!



Sartorial? Who me? I'll take that compliment, thank you very much.


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## Murrmurr (Dec 20, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Interesting.  I'm in a volunteer program that provides mentoring and support for kids who have aged out of the foster care system.


Awesome, JimBob. Calif has that program, too, but they've basically regulated it out of existence. These days mentors for the aged-out have to go to these meeting places where they get a group of kids, and not always the same ones, and only once a week for an hour or two. It's not really mentoring, it's just doing a project with a group of older teenagers who may or may not want to be there. It's pretty meaningless for both mentors and kids; just money going to the state.


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## ElCastor (Dec 20, 2022)

Came time when I could retire, but didn’t have to. Did the math and retired at 57. Didn’t have to, but never regretted it.


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## 1955 (Dec 20, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I've been working from home for the last 13 years, doing marketing and PR writing.  It's been great.  For the first 7 or 8 years I made a lot of money.



Hopefully you saved some of that money and put it into an investment.
At age seventy you'll be getting a better pay out from SS.
Since I retired there has been plenty of things to do, no problem there. Time to find some hobbies.
I find that it take some time to keep healthy.  It takes a whole lot more time when you have problems.

Yeah, it's a transition just follow your heart!


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## Remy (Dec 20, 2022)

I hope it works out for you OK. I'm working part time. I'll be a bit broke in retirement if I can ever get there, but I think I'll be OK. I'll bet you will be also. I hope you enjoy every minute.


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## Kika (Dec 20, 2022)

I retired 4 years ago at 72.  It was a big decision, but there was a new regime in the hospital politics, and after a year or so of that I knew it was time.

I was afraid of having nothing to do and becoming useless.   There are now not enough hours in the day for everything I do and everything else that I want to do.

Just do it and don't look back.  It will feel very odd the first month or so, but then you might be like I was and ask yourself, "why didn't I do this 5 yrs ago?"


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## DebraMae (Dec 20, 2022)

I retired at 61.  It took me a while to realize it was OK to just sit down and read a book or go take a nap.  I stay busy and don't believe I will ever run out of things to do but I am trying to remind myself it is OK to take it easy too.  My early retirement was due to health and stress issues.


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## NorthernLight (Dec 20, 2022)

@JimBob1952  Take all advice with a grain of salt. We all have different preferences, resources, etc. Having said that....

I didn't enjoy my first 2 years of retirement. Partly because of relationship and financial problems. I'm still poor. I'm sure that if I had money I'd have no trouble enjoying myself! But of course one still has to spend wisely.

Maybe take a month off and goof off, see what you gravitate toward.

You might want some structure in your day. Could be exercise, volunteer work, learning something new. In every town or neighborhood there is a cadre of old guys who meet at a certain time to drink coffee and solve the world's problems.

If there's nothing you like, you can start your own group or whatever.

You might have a lifelong dream, something you didn't have time for before. You could work toward that. But be prepared for the possibility of it never coming to pass, for health or other reasons.

There will be opportunities to make money. You'll have the freedom to decide which ones are worth your while.


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## Chet (Dec 20, 2022)

Sounds like your are working from home so just do it part time and set your own hours.


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## Packerjohn (Dec 20, 2022)

Can't relate to your fears and problems.  Me, I retired 23 years ago and I have never had one boring day.  Lots to do; play guitar, see folks, go walking, listen to music, travel the world, read great books, watch some movies but not too much and there is so much more to do.

By the way, money isn't everything.  You came into this world with nothing and that is exactly how you are going to leave it.  I think it's some sort of Hollywood bull about "money brings you happiness."  What a bunch of crap!  Money buys you a lot of toys and perhaps a lot more opportunity to do more things but happiness comes from within your heart not from a pile of money.  Too much money just gives you a lot more problems.

Think about finding experiences in life; not more money.


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## NorthernLight (Dec 20, 2022)

Chet said:


> Sounds like your are working from home so just do it part time and set your own hours.


People suggested this to me. I couldn't, for various reasons. 

One was timing; I had to be available when my clients needed me. Another was that my overhead costs would have remained the same; it wouldn't have been worth it to keep the business alive part time. 

Also, it would have affected my pension. For every $100 I made, I'd get to keep $40. Definitely not worth it.

Plus the abuse. Not by my clients themselves, but sometimes by other people I had to deal with in the course of business.

Of course, everyone's situation is different.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Dec 20, 2022)

As you are working from home, I would suggest you just retire, but don't broadcast it to all your friends and relatives. Or you could do like me and tell everyone and then find yourself very busy on "their" attempts to occupy your time, and very little time for yourself. Strike a balance, imo.


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## Disgustedman (Dec 20, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I've been working from home for the last 13 years, doing marketing and PR writing.  It's been great.  For the first 7 or 8 years I made a lot of money.  Things have been tapering off gradually.
> 
> Now it looks like it's time to hang it up altogether.  This scares me for two reasons:
> 
> ...


Personally, I'd suggest you take a trip, 1-3 weeks, I don't know what vehicle you have, but a van is helpful. Or a cruise. Why? Because you may not be here in 2-3 months. Or you could be, but your mind won't be.

I saw a 84 year old woman go from thoughtful to childish in 6 months. 6 more and she passed away. I'm not saying "Walk in fear" but with knowledge that the end zone is closer now than it was.

Enjoy watching a butterfly, humming birds (they are so cute) playing piano, volunteering, if you have a good voice, maybe record yourself reading children's stories and putting them on
 YouTube, gain a following.

As some have said "There's not enough hours in the day for my retirement" that's the goal.


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## Teacher Terry (Dec 20, 2022)

I retired at 58 and within 7 months was bored. I started doing some consulting and then was asked to teach an online college class which was a new career for me. I loved it and did it for 8 years until the new dean of the University decided to get rid of all the adjuncts.


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## horseless carriage (Dec 21, 2022)

Northern Light's, to take all advice with a grain of salt. We all have different preferences, resources, etc. makes for sound sense. We are all different, what suits some, is not for others. Retirement is certainly not a case of: "One size fits all."

Packerjohn hit the nail right on the head: "By the way, money isn't everything. You came into this world with nothing and that is exactly how you are going to leave it. I think it's some sort of Hollywood bull about "money brings you happiness." What a bunch of crap! Money buys you a lot of toys and perhaps a lot more opportunity to do more things but happiness comes from within your heart not from a pile of money. Too much money just gives you a lot more problems." My wife and I enjoy life with a group of friends from all walks of life and from either end of the financial spectrum. A text message like:: "What are you doing on Saturday, fancy meeting up for coffee?" A message like that, as Packerjohn points out, brings happiness. Your friend is telling you that you are loved, your company is enjoyed. That is real treasure.

Disgustedman's advice is so sensible: "Personally, I'd suggest you take a trip, 1-3 weeks, I don't know what vehicle you have, but a van is helpful. Or a cruise. Why? Because you may not be here in 2-3 months. Or you could be, but your mind won't be.

I saw a 84 year old woman go from thoughtful to childish in 6 months. 6 more and she passed away. I'm not saying "Walk in fear" but with knowledge that the end zone is closer now than it was."

Many times I have mentioned that my wife and I crossed the pond regularly to visit my schoolfriend in Savannah GA. The lady worked in medical management, she was recruited, today we would call it head-hunted, to work in the US. There she met a widower surgeon, they were married within a year. A couple of years ago, Bob, the surgeon, passed away. My schoolfriend, with many years of retirement ahead of her, pined for her beloved, within a year she had joined him.

My wife and I are following Northern Light's common sense approach, my lady retired at 62, she was a paramedic in the ambulance service, I shall continue to work as long as my health and strength hold out.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 21, 2022)

My goodness JB...these things right here are enough to fill your time!  _"Theoretically, I can write other things, practice the piano, get better at golf, do more volunteering. But I'm nervous that I'll just sit around, goof off on the Internet, read and waste time." _Consider yourself blessed, or lucky...whatever term you use. Seems like you and your wife planned for retirement and probably will have enough to last. You can be in charge of some of that...by cutting back when and where (*if)* you need to. There are some creative ways to do that. Also, getaways don't always have to be a large expense to be enjoyable.

If you haven't done it already, sit down with your wife and crunch the numbers on what your finances will look like after your PT work income stops. Bottom line is except for the wealthy, none of us know for sure if our money will last a lifetime, especially considering we don't know how long we will live or what future events may impact our finances. Just try to relax and enjoy it....and yes "wasting time" on the internet can be quite rewarding.


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## Alligatorob (Dec 21, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Any other SFers in a similar situation?


Yes, similar.  I am also 70.  I'm (or was) a consulting engineer, independent.  I started slowing my work down about 2 or 3 years ago, letting jobs and clients go.  This year I worked about 25%, next year probably no more than 5%.

What I did was put a simple spreadsheet together first estimating what I was going to be spending and then what my income was going to be.  I took my 401k investments and assumed a 4% per year withdrawal rate.  What I discovered was that I had more money than I needed, it made all the worries go away.  Or almost anyway.  I was surprised to see that, and as a result I have been doing some bucket list things, mostly fishing trips.  Things that I know I won't always be healthy enough to do.

Of course there are more sophisticated programs and models to do the same, but I didn't feel like I needed that.  I also plan to watch the 401k money and if it goes too quickly I'll just adjust my lifestyle to match.


NorthernLight said:


> @JimBob1952 Take all advice with a grain of salt. We all have different preferences, resources, etc.


Truth in that, and you are welcome to take mine with as many grains of salt as you like!

Best of luck to you!


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## Lara (Dec 21, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> "Facing Real Retirement and Scared"...I won't have a "thing" that I'm supposed to do during the day.  Theoretically, I can write other things, practice the piano, get better at golf, do more volunteering.  But I'm nervous that I'll just sit around, goof off on the Internet, read and waste time.



*"Make it a Great Day"*

I remember a volunteer Greeter at the door of the YMCA
Everyday he greeted everyone with a genuine smile saying:
"Good Morning. Make it a Great day".

Not "Have a great day"....No
MAKE IT a Great Day!
I never forgot him and his simple message that packed a punch.

My mother, in her 80's and 90's, would purposefully plan something 2 or 3 days a week so she "had something to look forward to". Not expensive things. Book Club at the library, taught dance class for a group of friends until she was 89, would stop on the way home once a week for a fish sandwich at McDonald's with her friends. Weekly luncheon at the church. Volunteering brought her joy and fulfillment.

She had a small easel, canvas, paint & brushes set up on her kitchen island and would dabble a little here and there. She cut out her favorite comic strips and stuck them in a blank-page journal. Crossword Puzzles daily. Her house was spotless and fresh. Dressed with class.
She walked daily and got to know all the children. They would knock on her door. They would laugh at her comics, color with her...I could go on and on...or did I


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 21, 2022)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> As you are working from home, I would suggest you just retire, but don't broadcast it to all your friends and relatives. Or you could do like me and tell everyone and then find yourself very busy on "their" attempts to occupy your time, and very little time for yourself. Strike a balance, imo.


That happened with me for the first few years of retirement Harry between my mother's needs, grandchildren and step children. My mother and husband said I was busier in retirement than when I was working. My son joked that why they call it "re-tired".


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## Trish (Dec 21, 2022)

I was planning to gradually slip into retirement.  I had already gone from a 5 day working week to 4 and my plan was to keep reducing my worklife until the day I took the final step into retirement but, it ddn't happen that way.  Instead Covid happened and that was it, the office closed and never re-opened.  The first year or so was a time of adjusting and actually, three years on, I enjoy my life and freedom.  Looking back, I think I was bored and ready for a change so, now I am glad it happened when it did.  A lot of course depends on finances and how you can fill your time when you are no longer working.  Some of my ex colleagues found part time work, some volunteer and some just enjoy being able to do whatever they please.  I'm one of the latter.  I hope whatever you do, you enjoy your time.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 21, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> View attachment 257464
> Sartorial? Who me? I'll take that compliment, thank you very much.


You should!  It's very rare nowadays that someone exhibits real style, let alone a couple that does so.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 21, 2022)

Many wise and helpful observations here.  Thank you to all SFers!


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 21, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Awesome, JimBob. Calif has that program, too, but they've basically regulated it out of existence. These days mentors for the aged-out have to go to these meeting places where they get a group of kids, and not always the same ones, and only once a week for an hour or two. It's not really mentoring, it's just doing a project with a group of older teenagers who may or may not want to be there. It's pretty meaningless for both mentors and kids; just money going to the state.



We have some of those limitations too.  However while we can't get together in person (except once per month) we are getting a lot done via text and phone.  It was frustrating at first, now it's quite rewarding.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 21, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> You should!  It's very rare nowadays that someone exhibits real style, let alone a couple that does so.


I suspect that if you look up the definitions of style and classy in the dictionary, you'll find a picture of Mr. & Mrs @horseless carriage next to the definitions.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 21, 2022)

A few things come to mind here:

1)  Wife and I need better agreement on what constitutes "enough money."  Let's just say she's the accelerator and I'm the brakes.  

2) I am very grateful for the good situation we are in, healthy, relatively solvent, and with lots of interests and activity.  I just need a sharper focus and to set some priorities.  

3) Again, all suggestions and observations have been most constructive and helpful.  Thanks to all.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 21, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> A few things come to mind here:
> 
> 1)  Wife and I need better agreement on what constitutes "enough money."  Let's just say she's the accelerator and I'm the brakes.
> 
> ...


You're quite welcome. Just wondering since you mention health again...do you have any other insurance besides Medicare or have medigap coverage?


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 21, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> You're quite welcome. Just wondering since you mention health again...do you have any other insurance besides Medicare or have medigap coverage?


We have everything you can think of, thanks.


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## Jace (Dec 21, 2022)

For those who "are"...or planning to..

Saw this..and thought I'd pass it along..

An Ode To Retirement
A lifetime of hard work has led to this
This long-awaited break of joyful bliss 

The day has come, what should I pursue? 
Well, whatever in life is most important to you. 

Should it be travel, time with family and friends?
A new hobby, relaxing all day - the list never ends! 

The freedom and flexibility will be abundant 
Keeping a schedule will seem redundant. 

Planning is crucial for those anticipated years, 

A savings and income are important, it's true...

Retirement should be the best time for you!


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## Murrmurr (Dec 21, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> We have some of those limitations too.  However while we can't get together in person (except once per month) we are getting a lot done via text and phone.  It was frustrating at first, now it's quite rewarding.


That's good to know. 

There was a community program called Foster-Grandparent where volunteer old folks were notified of kids who were headed down the wrong path or had it rough at home or their parent/s worked during after-school hours, and the old folks would just basically hang out with the kids for a few hours or so, however much time they wanted, or could. It was a very successful program....which is why it was taken over at the county level by Social Services.

And, of course, they ruined it. For the county it's just another bank account. It's not about a bunch of kids losing hope on their way to prison or homelessness or suicide.

(this shit really pisses me off)


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## horseless carriage (Dec 21, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> You should!  It's very rare nowadays that someone exhibits real style, let alone a couple that does so.





OneEyedDiva said:


> I suspect that if you look up the definitions of style and classy in the dictionary, you'll find a picture of Mr. & Mrs @horseless carriage next to the definitions.


You flatter me/us but we love it. Thank you for such generous compliments. Previously, in this thread, Packerjohn spoke of money and of happiness. What a great deal of sense he made. An example of his take on happiness is here to see. The two compliments above have enriched us far more than any cash gift could ever do. Much appreciated!


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 21, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> You flatter me/us but we love it. Thank you for such generous compliments. Previously, in this thread, Packerjohn spoke of money and of happiness. What a great deal of sense he made. An example of his take on happiness is here to see. The two compliments above have enriched us far more than any cash gift could ever do. Much appreciated!


You are *so* welcome because the compliments are so well deserved.


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## C50 (Dec 22, 2022)

OP much about retirement is make it up as you go.  Me being type A people always said I would be bored being retired but I'm four years into it and haven't been bored yet. 

As for money I was a tad concerned but have discovered I spend much less than I anticipated, but being debt free helps with that.

My advise is not to worry about having day to day plans but use the freedom and enjoy each day as you want.


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## Paladin1950 (Dec 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> I've been working from home for the last 13 years, doing marketing and PR writing.  It's been great.  For the first 7 or 8 years I made a lot of money.  Things have been tapering off gradually.
> 
> Now it looks like it's time to hang it up altogether.  This scares me for two reasons:
> 
> ...


Your main worry should be to stay active. After working in nursing homes for years, I have long since noticed that the main threat to people after they retire is arthritis. So many people didn't stay active and became totally crippled up with arthritis.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 28, 2022)

Paladin1950 said:


> Your main worry should be to stay active. After working in nursing homes for years, I have long since noticed that the main threat to people after they retire is arthritis. So many people didn't stay active and became totally crippled up with arthritis.


That's not an issue.  I go to the gym, take long walks, swim, play golf and bicycle.  My wife does all that plus tennis.


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## Nemo2 (Dec 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> We have some traveling we would like to do, but funds are not unlimited.


Where would you like to go?  Travel, which will always 'cost', can be accomplished, (and more enjoyably so), at 'ground level' where 'the people' are.


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## Knight (Dec 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> 3) Again, all suggestions and observations have been most constructive and helpful.  Thanks to all.


Suggest you make a list of expenses you won't have that you have now.


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## David777 (Dec 28, 2022)

*the way it sometimes ends...   *


*and a year later...*


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## Pepper (Dec 28, 2022)

First guy looks happy enough!


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 28, 2022)

Knight said:


> Suggest you make a list of expenses you won't have that you have now.




That's not really the problem.  The issue as I see it is day to day spending.  I don't spend much in the course of a day.  My wife can think of a hundred different things to buy in an afternoon.  It's been fine up to now but when we have to live on savings and SS it will have to change.  That's a conversation I really dread.


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## Pepper (Dec 28, 2022)

It's scary.  I got a $50. SS raise and my co-op fees are going up $120.


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## Nemo2 (Dec 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> That's a conversation I really dread.


The sooner the better is my unsolicited opinion........forewarned is forearmed an all that...


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## C50 (Dec 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> That's not really the problem.  The issue as I see it is day to day spending.  I don't spend much in the course of a day.  My wife can think of a hundred different things to buy in an afternoon.  It's been fine up to now but when we have to live on savings and SS it will have to change.  That's a conversation I really dread.



Over spending can certainly ruin a retirement.  I was married to a spender and am certain if I was still married to her I wouldn't have been able to retire.  In 23 years together I was never able to get her to adhere to any kind of budget or spending discipline.

With that I am going to wish you the best of luck.  In my opinion financial compatability is a foundation stone for a successful marriage and retirement. I truly hope your retirement is enjoyable and doesn't turn into a financial struggle.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 28, 2022)

C50 said:


> Over spending can certainly ruin a retirement.  I was married to a spender and am certain if I was still married to her I wouldn't have been able to retire.  In 23 years together I was never able to get her to adhere to any kind of budget or spending discipline.
> 
> With that I am going to wish you the best of luck.  In my opinion financial compatability is a foundation stone for a successful marriage and retirement. I truly hope your retirement is enjoyable and doesn't turn into a financial struggle.



The marriage has been great and my wife has a hundred wonderful qualities.  We can sort out our differences about spending.  But it will take some effort.


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## Knight (Dec 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> That's not really the problem.  The issue as I see it is day to day spending.  I don't spend much in the course of a day.  My wife can think of a hundred different things to buy in an afternoon.  It's been fine up to now but when we have to live on savings and SS it will have to change.  That's a conversation I really dread.


Why is discussing finances something to dread?  Your wife should be aware of the cost of living the way you want to live in full retirement shouldn't she?  If not then maybe the dread you have extends further than money issues.


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## NorthernLight (Dec 28, 2022)

How about separate bank accounts or credit cards? Separated however you like, e.g., a grocery/housekeeping account, a discretionary "hers" account.... For her credit card, you could have a limit that will cover a month's expenditures, e.g., $1000, or whatever works for the two of you.

I once lived with a man who was well off by my standards. He owned properties, a store, etc., and was preparing to retire young. Sometimes when he gave me money for groceries, he'd say, "Don't spend spend too much." I had no idea what this meant; I just spent what he gave me. Mind you, I am an experienced pennypincher, and I could have been very frugal if I knew what was going on. But he was vague, and I didn't think he'd be satisfied with poverty food. After he died, someone dropped hints about his money problems. I had no idea.

Seems to me you need a financial advisor who will tell you what I just told you (and more). Then you can tell your wife that these arrangements are in both your best interests. Or the advisor might have suggestions for how to discuss all this with your wife. 

No sense just worrying about money, when there is probably a simple solution. Good luck!


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 28, 2022)

Knight said:


> Why is discussing finances something to dread?  Your wife should be aware of the cost of living the way you want to live in full retirement shouldn't she?  If not then maybe the dread you have extends further than money issues.


Maybe, maybe not.


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## Pepper (Dec 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Maybe, maybe not, but I'm certainly not going to discuss it on a public forum.


Good idea.  We have ways of finding you...


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 28, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Good idea.  We have ways of finding you...


As you see, I edited the post for simplicity.  My wife is fantastic and the last thing I want to do is get into a discussion about problems.  I'm lucky she is willing to hang out with me.  As SF readers know, I'm not always a day at the beach.  Or maybe I am, if that day is in late January and the beach is Far Rockaway.


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## Pepper (Dec 28, 2022)

No, no, I think you'd be a pleasure to live with!


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## C50 (Dec 28, 2022)

So the comment about your wife's spending wasn't meant as critical toward her but just a way of pointing out you're worried about future spending.  I get that.  

Have the two of you sat down and examined your past working income and spending vs your new retirement budget?  Is she aware of all your financial holdings, how taxes will affect withdraws, what SS will be, health care cost? I think it's important you both have a good understanding of your finances so transparency and is a must.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 28, 2022)

C50 said:


> Maybe the comment about your wife's spending wasn't meant as critical toward her but just a way of pointing out you're worried about future spending.  I get that.
> 
> Have the two of you sat down and examined your past working income and spending vs your new retirement budget?  Is she aware of all your financial holdings, how taxes will affect withdraws, what SS will be, health care cost? I think it's important you both have a good understanding of your finances so transparency and is a must.



We share everything.  We talk to the brokers together, we meet with the tax people together.  She keeps the books and pays the bills.  She trades stocks and options (she was once a stockbroker.)  We're totally transparent with each other. 

The only issue is that our monthly expenditures are X and after about July 1 of next year they will have to come down to about .75X.  And the money has to come out of "walking around" money as most other expenses are fixed.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 28, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> That's not really the problem.  The issue as I see it is day to day spending.  I don't spend much in the course of a day.  My wife can think of a hundred different things to buy in an afternoon.  It's been fine up to now but when we have to live on savings and SS it will have to change.  That's a conversation I really dread.


But one you certainly need to have. The sooner, the better. Hope you can iron things out. Maybe seeing the projections in black and white (written down or computer spreadsheet) will make your wife accept the reality of it.
@NorthernLight  IMO, when a couple is planning retirement and the decision to see a financial advisor is made, both spouses should be present.


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## NorthernLight (Dec 28, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> @NorthernLight  IMO, when a couple is planning retirement and the decision to see a financial advisor is made, both spouses should be present.


I apologize. I never knew the finances of my spouse or fiance. I guess I'm hopelessly old fashioned.


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## Knight (Dec 28, 2022)

This as a thread that has the OP dreading having a realistic conversation with his wife about spending boggles my mind.

I couldn't imagine my wife not knowing what our financial situation was/is. We began planning retirement when I was in my mid 30's. The plan was to retire early at age 55. But due to good fortune I retired at age 54. Never needed or wanted a job after I retired. 27 years into retirement our income from 2 Soc. Sec. checks, 2 pension checks, 1 traditional IRA each 1 self directed IRA each equaling 8 sources of income I don't monitor or need to dread what my wife spends.


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## palides2021 (Dec 28, 2022)

Knight said:


> This as a thread that has the OP dreading having a realistic conversation with his wife about spending boggles my mind.
> 
> I couldn't imagine my wife not knowing what our financial situation was/is. We began planning retirement when I was in my mid 30's. The plan was to retire early at age 55. But due to good fortune I retired at age 54. Never needed or wanted a job after I retired. 27 years into retirement our income from 2 Soc. Sec. checks, 2 pension checks, 1 traditional IRA each 1 self directed IRA each equaling 8 sources of income I don't monitor or need to dread what my wife spends.


We also worked finances together in my marriage, and I'm glad we did. After my husband passed away, I knew exactly what we had and after years of using spreadsheets, I could plan ahead. I know of women that did not have financial knowledge after their spouses died and they had a hard time dealing with it.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 29, 2022)

NorthernLight said:


> I apologize. I never knew the finances of my spouse or fiance. I guess I'm hopelessly old fashioned.


No need to apologize NorthernLIght! I know and have read books and articles about women who didn't have a clue about the family finances because they "let their husbands handle it". This is a major mistake women make. It is a contributing factor to women living in poverty and an overwhelming majority are senior citizens. Other mistakes are not establishing their own credit and not having separate bank accounts. My mother, who was married for 66 years before my father passed, had a saying..."Never let a man know what you've got". That adage wound up being quite useful over the years.


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## horseless carriage (Dec 29, 2022)

Knight said:


> 27 years into retirement our income from 2 Soc. Sec. checks, 2 pension checks, 1 traditional IRA each 1 self directed IRA each equaling 8 sources of income I don't monitor or need to dread what my wife spends.


My wife boasts that she can make our country's economy recover, single handed. She's not wrong!


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## C50 (Dec 29, 2022)

JimBob1952 I have a question for you.  Are you feeling guilty asking your wife to make  spending consessions at retirement?   Are you worried that if her standard of living falls a bit she won't view you as a good provider?

I'm having trouble figuring out why you would be concerned about having a talk with her about spending.  It sounds like she is financially literate, knows all your finances and expenditures, is a good wife and partner.  So why the fear?

You have much praise for your wife.  Have you ever considered she is aware some changes may happen and is more than happy to accommodate for you and so you can retire and enjoy yourself?


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 29, 2022)

Knight said:


> This as a thread that has the OP dreading having a realistic conversation with his wife about spending boggles my mind.
> 
> I couldn't imagine my wife not knowing what our financial situation was/is. We began planning retirement when I was in my mid 30's. The plan was to retire early at age 55. But due to good fortune I retired at age 54. Never needed or wanted a job after I retired. 27 years into retirement our income from 2 Soc. Sec. checks, 2 pension checks, 1 traditional IRA each 1 self directed IRA each equaling 8 sources of income I don't monitor or need to dread what my wife spends.


Well good for you.  Your tone is patronizing at best, and I really resent it.   

We have a beautiful paid off house, 2 good SS checks and lots of money saved in many accounts, including stocks, bonds and alternative investments such as private equity and bank loans.  But we also like to live well and travel extensively.  And we heavily subsidize some less fortunate family members.    

My wife has full insight into all expenditures and income.  All I said was that we will have to make some adjustments in our day to day spending (which is very high) once we both stop working in July.  Saying I dread that conversation is more or less a figure of speech.


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## sch404 (Dec 29, 2022)

Your post and the responses to it are a perfect example of Oscar Wilde's aphorism, 'No Good deed goes unpunished.'


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## Knight (Dec 29, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Well good for you.  Your tone is patronizing at best, and I really resent it.
> 
> We have a beautiful paid off house, 2 good SS checks and lots of money saved in many accounts, including stocks, bonds and alternative investments such as private equity and bank loans.  But we also like to live well and travel extensively.  And we heavily subsidize some less fortunate family members.
> 
> My wife has full insight into all expenditures and income.  All I said was that we will have to make some adjustments in our day to day spending (which is very high) once we both stop working in July.  Saying I dread that conversation is more or less a figure of speech.


I'm glad you are financially comfortable and able to subsidize some less fortunate family members.   Given that comfort level your dread of discussing your future financial situation with your wife didn't come off as a figure of speech. Maybe an emoji with a smiley face would have got your dread across as humor or as you put it  a figure of speech.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 29, 2022)

Knight said:


> I'm glad you are financially comfortable and able to subsidize some less fortunate family members.   Given that comfort level your dread of discussing your future financial situation with your wife didn't come off as a figure of speech. Maybe an emoji with a smiley face would have got your dread across as humor or as you put it  a figure of speech.




Well, let's chalk it up to a misunderstanding and move on.  I've seen your other posts and you are a solid person.  

Your point is well taken in that some of my wife's friends stayed ignorant of family finances until their husbands died.  Now they are dealing with straitened circumstances and a lot of stress as they come to grips with financial limitations that they didn't know existed.


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## Knight (Dec 29, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Well, let's chalk it up to a misunderstanding and move on.  I've seen your other posts and you are a solid person.
> 
> Your point is well taken in that some of my wife's friends stayed ignorant of family finances until their husbands died.  Now they are dealing with straitened circumstances and a lot of stress as they come to grips with financial limitations that they didn't know existed.


Great I had no intention of being snarky or demeaning in any way. I apologize if I came off that way.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 29, 2022)

Knight said:


> Great I had no intention of being snarky or demeaning in any way. I apologize if I came off that way.


Me, too.  Thanks Knight.


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## C50 (Dec 29, 2022)

JimBob the more reveal in your postings the more I think you just have typical "life is about to change" worries.  It sounds like you have a solid marriage and have prepared well for retirement. 

 As I mentioned in an earlier post I was concerned about a lifestyle adjustment when I retired do to the loss of my salary, but it's been a painless transition.  I think you and the wife will do just fine!


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 29, 2022)

C50 said:


> JimBob the more reveal in your postings the more I think you just have typical "life is about to change" worries.  It sounds like you have a solid marriage and have prepared well for retirement.
> 
> As I mentioned in an earlier post I was concerned about a lifestyle adjustment when I retired do to the loss of my salary, but it's been a painless transition.  I think you and the wife will do just fine!


Thanks for the kind words.  This is a slow week and I'm thinking about it too much.


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## Gaer (Dec 29, 2022)

@JimBob, What are you "scared of"?
You will always survive.
Moving out of a structured behavior is not scary, just different.
If you are a writer, is there something you're passionate about?
Anyway, Nothing to worry about.  Don't ever be afraid of anything!
Enjoy as much happiness as you possibly can!


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## Leann (Dec 29, 2022)

@JimBob1952 perhaps this article from Next Avenue might help:

https://www.nextavenue.org/what-to-do-when-you-dont-know-what-to-do-in-retirement/


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## NorthernLight (Dec 29, 2022)

Good article! I spent some time feeling lost. Typical volunteer work was not for me. I did do some -- but for one thing, it was too much like work.

Now I practice my Spanish. Meeting with my local language partners is a nice outing.

Talking to my long-distance language partner on my phone is convenient. I've never been a photo person, but I've started taking photos of things that he might find interesting.

And all my language partners (both foreign and local) are great people.

At one point I attended a quiz game (in Spanish) on a language app. I felt inspired to offer a similar game in English. This has been very gratifying. I enjoy the research and planning, and the hosting itself. I'm developing "leadership skills." I get lots of compliments on the game and on my hosting.

I never would have thought, "Hmm, after I retire, I could host an online trivia game." And no one would ever have suggested it. It was serendipity.

Because I didn't finish high school, I never studied chemistry, physics, etc. Now I am learning about these things. Yay Internet.

None of these things would have seemed like obvious choices before, but here I am, doing them. If I want more, I can expand on some of the things I'm doing now, or wait for some other inspiration to come along.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 30, 2022)

NorthernLight said:


> Good article! I spent some time feeling lost. Typical volunteer work was not for me. I did do some -- but for one thing, it was too much like work.
> 
> Now I practice my Spanish. Meeting with my local language partners is a nice outing.
> 
> ...


Very impressive.  You are so smart and literate.  Just shows that formal education levels don't always count for much.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 30, 2022)

Gaer said:


> @JimBob, What are you "scared of"?
> You will always survive.
> Moving out of a structured behavior is not scary, just different.
> If you are a writer, is there something you're passionate about?
> ...


Thanks Gaer, I envy your creativity and energy.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 30, 2022)

Leann said:


> @JimBob1952 perhaps this article from Next Avenue might help:
> 
> https://www.nextavenue.org/what-to-do-when-you-dont-know-what-to-do-in-retirement/


Thank you.  I read it and it was very interesting.  The concept of having sort of a balanced portfolio of interests and activities is a good one.


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## Nemo2 (Dec 30, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Just shows that formal education levels don't always count for much.


If they're not basically STEM, or offshoots thereof, many/most 'courses', (the archetypical 'Womyns' Underwater Basket Weaving' _par exemple_), are kindergartens writ large.


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## DaveA (Dec 30, 2022)

Hard to make judgement about people and their money.  It cuts both ways if you aren't both reading from the same page.

Some folks are truly "over-spenders' and probably a panel of people would agree.  On the other hand you have folks who are "tightwads" although they'd never admit to it or more likely don't think that it's a true description of themselves.

In my particular case, we've been together for 70 years, 67 of them married. If we hadn't sorted things out, money included, before I retired (back in '92) we'd have a pretty crappy marriage at this late date.

As the years pass, habits, such as spending (or over-spending) become deeply ingrained and are harder to change than in the early years, IMHO.


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## NorthernLight (Dec 30, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> Very impressive.  You are so smart and literate.  Just shows that formal education levels don't always count for much.


What a nice thing to say. Thank you. I did receive a BA some years later.


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## StarSong (Dec 30, 2022)

Leann said:


> @JimBob1952 perhaps this article from Next Avenue might help:
> 
> https://www.nextavenue.org/what-to-do-when-you-dont-know-what-to-do-in-retirement/


Thanks for this link.  An interesting read, indeed.  

By the end of 2023, DH & I plan to transition from semi-retired to almost completely retired - meaning we'll keep a few treasured small customers (mostly as a favor to them), but let go of the bigger ones.

As planned, our finances won't be heavily affected. In a few months he'll turn 70 and refile his SS from a 50% spousal benefit against my earnings to receiving maximum benefits against his own earnings. That sizeable SS increase will pretty much offset our loss in business income. Between my SS and his our normal living expenses should be covered. 

Our nest egg is meant to manage emergencies, unexpected expenses and to shore up loss of income when/if one of us predeceases the other and the smaller SS check (mine) stops.

Like @JimBob1952, so far we're both hale and healthy, thank goodness.  We aren't travelers per se, but enjoy going to the Caribbean now and then and like occasionally visiting friends and relatives who live far away.  

It's the "what will we do with ourselves" when we fully retire that I think about.  Will I become a full-time babysitter?  Or waste 8 hours a day on the internet, another 4 reading, and a few more watching TV?  Perish the thought.

The Next Avenue article is intriguing, particularly the suggestion of signing up for retiree-centric virtual classes. Can't say I have an interest in artisanal cheese making, but if that's available surely to heavens there will be others that will be more my style. 

Thanks for bringing this up for discussion, JimBob. It's something many of us think about.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 30, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Thanks for this link.  An interesting read, indeed.
> 
> By the end of 2023, DH & I plan to transition from semi-retired to almost completely retired - meaning we'll keep a few treasured small customers (mostly as a favor to them), but let go of the bigger ones.
> 
> ...


One real benefit of this exchange of ideas -- from the Next Avenue article -- I'm prompted to join my local Audubon Society chapter as they have some really nice birdwatching walks and other activities.  

StarSong, you always sound so squared away, I'm sure you'll spend your time productively.


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## Jules (Dec 30, 2022)

When most people retired, it meant that they’d no longer be going to the office or factory.  It was a significant lifestyle change that also made it more logical to change spending habits.  This will be harder for you since you work from home.  Maybe you and your wife can discuss different routines at the same time as different spending decisions.  

Good luck.


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## StarSong (Dec 30, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> StarSong, you always sound so squared away, I'm sure you'll spend your time productively.


What a lovely thing to say.  Thank you for the compliment.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 30, 2022)

Jules said:


> When most people retired, it meant that they’d no longer be going to the office or factory.  It was a significant lifestyle change that also made it more logical to change spending habits.  This will be harder for you since you work from home.  Maybe you and your wife can discuss different routines at the same time as different spending decisions.
> 
> Good luck.



That's a good point.  To some extent I've been doing as I please for the last thirteen years.  For example, in 2019 we spent three months in France.  I worked some from there but it wasn't much of a burden.


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## StarSong (Dec 30, 2022)

JimBob1952 said:


> That's a good point.  To some extent I've been doing as I please for the last thirteen years.  For example, in 2019 we spent three months in France.  I worked some from there but it wasn't much of a burden.


When you said you like to travel, you weren't just whistling Dixie, were you?


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 30, 2022)

StarSong said:


> When you said you like to travel, you weren't just whistling Dixie, were you?


Well, I'm not talking about a Disney cruise, no.  Last summer we spent five weeks in France and during that time hiked part of the Chemin de St. Jacques (known as the Campostela de Santiago in Spain).  The year before we went to Rome, Bari and the Amalfi coast.  We handle our own arrangements and travel pretty modestly, although we do splurge once in a while.


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## Sawfish (Dec 31, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> Same here, 77 next birthday, retire? That's what old people do. Whilst I have my health and strength I will work on. It fills my day like no other.  I get appreciation for a job well done, interesting work, companionship, being in the know about company matters. stimulus and a sense of being valued as part of a team, despite my age. Ahem, the money's not bad either.


Makes sense to me.

We prepared carefully and pessimistically. So far (knock on wood) after 9 years things are solid, but the one thing I miss, and still miss, is having someone pay me for something that they found of value.

I'll never tire of earning money, one way or another. It's not the money, itself, but the satisfaction in having properly set yourself up to acquire it.


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## Pookie (Jan 4, 2023)

I am total idiot when it comes to finances, but my father taught me to live on 75% of your income. Use about 30% on insurance on cars, home rent or mortgage, etc., and save at least the rest as you can. Kid's college and saving, stuff like that. That kind of worked out for us, house paid off, kid married off and independent, now all is paid but dang, that was a lot of scrimping. 
Luckily my daughter learned the magic of mac n cheese casseroles, homemade hamburger helper, cheap produce stands, and meat marrkets. I think we may be ok when it comes to retirement.
House paid for, cars paid for .... older cars but so far so good, we are still working. We will see.


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## StarSong (Jan 4, 2023)

Pookie said:


> I am total idiot when it comes to finances, but my father taught me to live on 75% of your income. Use about 30% on insurance on cars, home rent or mortgage, etc., and save at least the rest as you can. Kid's college and saving, stuff like that. That kind of worked out for us, house paid off, kid married off and independent, now all is paid but dang, that was a lot of scrimping.
> Luckily my daughter learned the magic of mac n cheese casseroles, homemade hamburger helper, cheap produce stands, and meat marrkets. I think we may be ok when it comes to retirement.
> House paid for, cars paid for .... older cars but so far so good, we are still working. We will see.


That's very good advice, but few would be able to live on 75% of their income, and even fewer would want to - for precisely the reason you stated: a lot of scrimping.  It's a way to build a nest egg, but not a fun way to live.  

My mother counseled us to pay our bills, and with what's left over, donate a little, save a little, and splurge a little.  She knew people who'd been so traumatized by Depression era hardships that they never learned how to enjoy the fruits of their labor.


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## Sawfish (Jan 4, 2023)

StarSong said:


> That's very good advice, but few would be able to live on 75% of their income, and even fewer would want to - for precisely the reason you stated: a lot of scrimping.  It's a way to build a nest egg, but not a fun way to live.
> 
> My mother counseled us to pay our bills, and with what's left over, donate a little, save a little, and splurge a little.  She knew people who'd been so traumatized by Depression era hardships that they never learned how to enjoy the fruits of their labor.


Here's a funny thing, though...

For some, like me, there is great enjoyment--or satisfaction, even--in the scrimping.  The successful scrimping becomes the pay-off.

Really, I don't feel like I need much. Haven't for a very long time.


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## hearlady (Jan 4, 2023)

I'm definitely a scrimper since retiring. Much more home cooking. Very few new clothes needed. Using up  and not replacing things. Repairing instead of replacing wherever possible.


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## OneEyedDiva (Saturday at 4:52 AM)

StarSong said:


> That's very good advice, but few would be able to live on 75% of their income, and even fewer would want to - for precisely the reason you stated: a lot of scrimping.  It's a way to build a nest egg, but not a fun way to live.
> 
> My mother counseled us to pay our bills, and with what's left over, donate a little, save a little, and splurge a little.  She knew people who'd been so traumatized by Depression era hardships that they never learned how to enjoy the fruits of their labor.


For the first 11 years after taking early retirement, my personal expenses were less than half of my final salary. But I learned early in life how to, as the saying goes, "make a dollar out of 15 cents".  Due to my personal set of circumstances, I was able to live comfortably on my (reduced) pension and never felt I was depriving myself of anything. I mentioned in another thread that I read in Money magazine a couple of decades ago about people who were living well off less than the recommended 75% of FAS.


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## perChance (Saturday at 5:39 AM)

I think that too many people do not know the difference between "I want" and "I need".


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## horseless carriage (Saturday at 5:47 AM)

perChance said:


> I think that too many people do not know the difference between "I want" and "I need".


Guilty as charged. My wardrobe is stuffed full but when I see yet another piece of attractive fabric, well, I need that! Problem being that my talented lady makes most of my clothes. For everything else though, I am a right spendthrift, but there is one scrimp that I am proud of. My wife is still driving the car that I bought, all but new, in 2000. Whilst I didn't buy it new, my car is still going strong too. See my avatar.


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## StarSong (Saturday at 6:40 AM)

OneEyedDiva said:


> For the first 11 years after taking early retirement, my personal expenses were less than half of my final salary. But I learned early in life how to, as the saying goes, "make a dollar out of 15 cents".  Due to my personal set of circumstances, I was able to live comfortably on my (reduced) pension and never felt I was depriving myself of anything. I mentioned in another thread that I read in Money magazine a couple of decades ago about people who were living well off less than the recommended 75% of FAS.


What's FAS? (Looked it up and found everything from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome to Foreign Agricultural Service, but nothing that makes sense in this context.)


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## Nemo2 (Saturday at 7:55 AM)

StarSong said:


> What's FAS? (Looked it up and found everything from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome to Foreign Agricultural Service, but nothing that makes sense in this context.)


Financial Advisory Service?


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## StarSong (Saturday at 8:44 AM)

Nemo2 said:


> Financial Advisory Service?


Wouldn't make sense in the context of our Diva's sentence.


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## Nemo2 (Saturday at 9:01 AM)

StarSong said:


> Wouldn't make sense in the context of our Diva's sentence.


OK, let's stick with Financial Alcohol Syndrome then.


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## StarSong (Saturday at 9:23 AM)

Nemo2 said:


> OK, let's stick with Financial Alcohol Syndrome then.


I think I was afflicted with that a couple of times in my twenties when I was facing a little more month than money.


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## OneEyedDiva (Saturday at 10:23 AM)

StarSong said:


> What's FAS? (Looked it up and found everything from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome to Foreign Agricultural Service, but nothing that makes sense in this context.)


Final average salary. @Nemo2


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## StarSong (Saturday at 10:34 AM)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Final average salary. @Nemo2


Never would have gotten that.  Thanks, Diva.

So getting back to your post:


OneEyedDiva said:


> Due to my personal set of circumstances, I was able to live comfortably on my (reduced) pension and never felt I was depriving myself of anything. I mentioned in another thread that I read in Money magazine a couple of decades ago about people who were living well off less than the recommended 75% of FAS.


I would say DH & I would do ok on less than 75% of our Final Annual Salary, because before we (semi) retired we hadn't quite finished paying off our mortgage.  So that expense was gone, as were commuting costs, frequent lunches out, work clothing and other incidentals.  I'd guess a lot of retirees live well on less than 75% of their last salary.  

Is that what the article was getting at?


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## horseless carriage (Saturday at 12:35 PM)

Retirement for those who have had enough of the alarm clock, the routine, the commute and for many, the same old, same old, being freed of all that must seem like the promised land. What puts me off retiring is the loss of social interaction, I do so enjoy the company of work colleagues and customers alike. Work also gives me a identity and purpose, it fills my day like no other and although I can manage on our pensions the extra income makes financial security that bit stronger for the one left when the grim reaper knocks on the door.


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## OneEyedDiva (Saturday at 6:03 PM)

StarSong said:


> Never would have gotten that.  Thanks, Diva.
> 
> So getting back to your post:
> 
> ...


You're welcome, of course. Actually, now that I think about it Star, I should have left out the word "average"...and just used final salary again as I did at the beginning of that post. Like I mentioned, the article was a couple of decades ago so I don't remember particulars; they featured a few people who told how they managed on their retirement income. But I'm sure it mentioned the reductions in spending that take place when one no longer has work expenses, such as those you pointed out. I imagine there are similar articles that can be found online now.  @Nemo2


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