# Higher gasoline prices coming



## Don M. (Feb 19, 2021)

There will be a substantial "side effect" of the recent bad weather which will impact the rest of the nation in coming weeks....gas prices at the pump.  Many of the refineries sustained damage during this storm which will take many days, perhaps weeks, to resolve.  Then, with warmer weather arriving soon, and indications of this Corona virus infection rate slowing, people are going to be getting out more.  Import agreements with nations such as Venezuela and Saudi Arabia have all but vanished in the past 3 or 4 years as part of the MAGA campaign.  

Most of the "futures" trading is betting on at least a 30% rise in prices starting as soon as late March, with some predicting even higher prices by May.  So, it looks like we can soon kiss $2/gallon goodbye, expect $3/gal, by early Spring, and hope that we don't see the $4/gal. we saw back in 2008.


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## Irwin (Feb 19, 2021)

If that happens, people are going to be more reluctant to return to their offices once the pandemic is under control. The higher fuel prices will hurt blue collar workers the most.


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## Gemma (Feb 19, 2021)

Gas prices are already jacked up where I live.  Paying $2.96 per gallon right now.  When gases prices rise, so does propane and fuel oil.


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## win231 (Feb 19, 2021)

I remember almost $5.00/gal. several years ago. (Los Angeles County).


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## Buckeye (Feb 19, 2021)

Just got back from a road trip to Florida and back to Ohio - never paid less than $3 per gallon for premium.


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## Glowworm (Feb 19, 2021)

You're lucky you don't pay our prices, around 6 US Dollars a gallon in Sweden


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## Buckeye (Feb 20, 2021)

Glowworm said:


> You're lucky you don't pay our prices, around 6 US Dollars a gallon in Sweden


But on the flip side, you don't have that far to drive.


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## Glowworm (Feb 20, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> But on the flip side, you don't have that far to drive.


No of course we don't have far to drive, unless you call a daily commute to work of 100 miles there and back which is normal for many people where I live or even further if you live in the northern rural areas "not far"


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## PamfromTx (Feb 20, 2021)

Thank goodness that we don't go out much.  My car still has almost a full tank of gas from filling it up about 3 weeks ago.  I DO not go anywhere unless I really have to.


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## horseless carriage (Feb 20, 2021)

Glowworm said:


> You're lucky you don't pay our prices, around 6 US Dollars a gallon in Sweden


Although the US gallon is smaller than the UK gallon, calculating the difference it works out that UK fuel in US dollars/US gallons comes to $6.67 and the treasury are considering a hike on that. What will happen when we can no longer buy fossil fuel?


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## Glowworm (Feb 20, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> Although the US gallon is smaller than the UK gallon, calculating the difference it works out that UK fuel in US dollars/US gallons comes to $6.67 and the treasury are considering a hike on that. What will happen when we can no longer buy fossil fuel?


I was calculating based on the US gallon. I guess we'll have to do the same as in other areas, find alternative fuel sources such as biogas or biodiesel if they're possible solutions or electric cars if we can secure supplies of electricity. It isn't an easy problem to solve.


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## horseless carriage (Feb 20, 2021)

Here in the UK there's a poster along the side of McDonald's delivery trucks that reads: "We convert our spent cooking oil into Biodiesel for use in our delivery vehicles."


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## Jeni (Feb 20, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> Here in the UK there's a poster along the side of McDonald's delivery trucks that reads: "We convert our spent cooking oil into Biodiesel for use in our delivery vehicles."


i remember when this was all the rage ....was told it was the wave of the future ............then slowly seemed to disappear here..no more quirky stories about they guy whose car smelled like fries etc.....

did it just not pan out or was the process not profitable?   i am guessing the not profitable...
just wait as many people want to tax us out of our cars in fuel taxes.............................. pushing us to buy the electric ones although the electricity grid is failing now....


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## horseless carriage (Feb 20, 2021)

At the risk of sounding technically boring, Jeni, a diesel engine can run on almost anything, even coal dust, it has to be converted or adapted to do so. My suspicion about cooking oil and other similar "fuels" is that they don't have the same tax on them as fossil fuel, so the taxman is missing out and we can't have that, can we?


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## J.B Books (Feb 20, 2021)

Don M. said:


> There will be a substantial "side effect" of the recent bad weather which will impact the rest of the nation in coming weeks....gas prices at the pump.  Many of the refineries sustained damage during this storm which will take many days, perhaps weeks, to resolve.  Then, with warmer weather arriving soon, and indications of this Corona virus infection rate slowing, people are going to be getting out more.  Import agreements with nations such as Venezuela and Saudi Arabia have all but vanished in the past 3 or 4 years as part of the MAGA campaign.
> 
> Most of the "futures" trading is betting on at least a 30% rise in prices starting as soon as late March, with some predicting even higher prices by May.  So, it looks like we can soon kiss $2/gallon goodbye, expect $3/gal, by early Spring, and hope that we don't see the $4/gal. we saw back in 2008.


Not only  the bad weather affecting futures...
Closing XL pipeline and other pipelines. Shutting down access to drilling and natural gas on Federal land will change the U.S. from being the largest oil and natural gas producer in the world to an energy *importer*, more affected by price fluctuations and supply from OPEC.


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## Don M. (Feb 20, 2021)

The "future" of transportation is going to see some major changes in the next couple of decades.  The emphasis seems to be a move to electric vehicles, but if there isn't a major increase in our electricity production, and the construction of 10's of thousands of charging stations, And a battery system that can be recharged in minutes, instead of hours, electric vehicles will be impractical for anything other than local commuting.  

Such a transition will most likely take decades, and in the interim, we will have to rely on fossil fuels for the bulk of our transportation needs.


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## J.B Books (Feb 20, 2021)

Don M. said:


> The "future" of transportation is going to see some major changes in the next couple of decades.  The emphasis seems to be a move to electric vehicles, but if there isn't a major increase in our electricity production, and the construction of 10's of thousands of charging stations, And a battery system that can be recharged in minutes, instead of hours, electric vehicles will be impractical for anything other than local commuting.
> 
> Such a transition will most likely take decades, and in the interim, we will have to rely on fossil fuels for the bulk of our transportation needs.


True.
So in the meantime let's reduce our production and increase our dependency on foreign oil and eliminate millions of jobs while we are at it. 
I agree that we need to transition.
Just can't be done overnight.
Where does that power to charge all those electric vehicles come from?


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## Glowworm (Feb 20, 2021)

Alternative fuel isn't new. During WW2 due to the petrol/gasoline shortage many vehicles in Sweden were converted to run on something called gengas (generator gas). Gengas is produced by incomplete combustion of wood or charcoal. The gas consists mainly of carbon monoxide, hydrogen, methane and carbon dioxide. Gengas burners were attached to cars, buses and trucks. In November 1941 70 000 vehicles in Sweden were run on gengas.



This text from Wikipedia has been translated from Swedish in Google translate.

_Before the gas enters the engine, it needs to be cleaned. This is traditionally done in four steps:

1. Cyclone filter: the gas enters a cyclone where larger soot and ash particles of the centrifugal force swirl down into a container while the gas continues out.
2. Water bath: the gas is scrubbed in water in which acids and smaller ash particles dissolve.
3. Cooling: the gas passes through a cooler that condenses off water and reduces the volume of the gas (like an intercooler), which allows more combustible gas to fit in the engine.
4. Cork filter: the filter absorbs additional water, ash particles and tar from the gas.

Gengas offers high efficiency. Vesa Mikkonen has carefully investigated gengas as a fuel for cars in his book "Wood gas for mobile applications". During practical experience, 1000 kg of wood has replaced 385 liters of motor gasoline during normal daily use with the same unmodified car. This means that the energy requirement for a wood gas car will be 1.54 x higher compared to the same car run on petrol, but no fuel processing is needed. The comparison takes into account both heating and extra weight of the gengas units. The current efficiency of a gas generator is 75%. Exhaust emissions are also minimal. The exhaust gas analysis has proven that the emissions of carbon monoxide are below 0.3% and the emissions of hydrocarbons are less than 15 ppm without catalytic exhaust gas purification. Modern gas systems also work well with air-dried wood and peat._

Of course if you could produce, store and distribute the gas commercially you're still faced with the problem that you're going to cut down a lot of trees to keep your cars running unless you use fast growing plants like willow bushes then farmers could possibly have an alternative source of income.

This text also from Wikipedia has been translated from Swedish in Google translate.

_Energy forest, forest cultivated on arable land for energy extraction.

Energy forest cultivations in Sweden usually consist of bushy arrows of the genus Salix (willow cultivation). The trees are normally harvested 3–5 years after planting, as they have become about 5–7 meters high. They are then ground into chips for use as fuel in a thermal or thermal power plant. They can also be further processed, for example into ethanol.

Energy forest also has the advantage that it can clean agricultural land from heavy metals, such as cadmium. Salix is good at absorbing the cadmium which is then stored in the biomass. After incineration, it can be separated from the ash.

Energy forest that is cultivated by watercourses in the vicinity of fields has the function of absorbing nitrogen, among other things. In this way, the energy forest grows better and the nitrogen does not reach the sea or the lake, which could have led to eutrophication._

Interesting thought isn't it?


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## Jeni (Feb 20, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> At the risk of sounding technically boring, Jeni, a diesel engine can run on almost anything, even coal dust, it has to be converted or adapted to do so. My suspicion about cooking oil and other similar "fuels" is that they don't have the same tax on them as fossil fuel, so the taxman is missing out and we can't have that, can we?


i know that i am just remarking on items that are brought up and never seem to come to be..... 

as for the taxes i am talking some politicians that think the supply of tax dollars on fuel NOW  is never enough........
 in my state the taxes are far more of the per gallon amount then the actual oil producers part.....   if they showed the breakdown at the pump people might be surprised how it is not greedy oil profits..


and the plan  to define behavior by FINING people every chance they get


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## Irwin (Feb 20, 2021)

Don M. said:


> The "future" of transportation is going to see some major changes in the next couple of decades.  The emphasis seems to be a move to electric vehicles, but if there isn't a major increase in our electricity production, and the construction of 10's of thousands of charging stations, And a battery system that can be recharged in minutes, instead of hours, electric vehicles will be impractical for anything other than local commuting.
> 
> Such a transition will most likely take decades, and in the interim, we will have to rely on fossil fuels for the bulk of our transportation needs.


Israel was experimenting with having batteries swapped out instead of having to wait for them to be charged. I don't know how that worked out. Of course, considering the cost of batteries, there would no doubt be theft, much like people are having their catalytic convertors stolen.



> Where does that power to charge all those electric vehicles come from?


It could come from solar or wind power, or other clean energy sources.


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## Don M. (Feb 20, 2021)

J.B Books said:


> Where does that power to charge all those electric vehicles come from?



The ONLY technology I've read about that could potentially solve the world's energy problems is a combination of Nuclear Fusion....to generate vast amounts of electricity....much of which could be used to covert water into its hydrogen/oxygen components.  The hydrogen could then replace fossil fuels, which when combined with the released oxygen, would produce water....thus making a nearly "zero sum" means of supplying energy without pollution.   Such technology is in its infancy, but IMO would be the best long term solution.


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## J.B Books (Feb 20, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Israel was experimenting with having batteries swapped out instead of having to wait for them to be charged. I don't know how that worked out. Of course, considering the cost of batteries, there would no doubt be theft, much like people are having their catalytic convertors stolen.
> 
> 
> It could come from solar or wind power, or other clean energy sources.


There is not enough wind/solar energy production to power and recharge the EV's we have now.
The clean grid expansion cannot keep up with the demand of EV production.


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## J.B Books (Feb 20, 2021)

Don M. said:


> The ONLY technology I've read about that could potentially solve the world's energy problems is a combination of Nuclear Fusion....to generate vast amounts of electricity....much of which could be used to covert water into its hydrogen/oxygen components.  The hydrogen could then replace fossil fuels, which when combined with the released oxygen, would produce water....thus making a nearly "zero sum" means of supplying energy without pollution.   Such technology is in its infancy, but IMO would be the best long term solution.


I agree with this.
Also nuclear energy the way it exists now is still an option IMO..


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## JustBonee (Feb 20, 2021)

PamfromTx said:


> Thank goodness that we don't go out much.  My car still has almost a full tank of gas from filling it up about 3 weeks ago.  I DO not go anywhere unless I really have to.


Me too...  I really need to go out tomorrow,    and see if my car is okay.    I have it sitting with 3/4 tank of gas which should  last until Summer at least. 
 I never pay attention to gas prices.


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 20, 2021)

I'm lucky that I don't use much gas these days.

I am concerned that it will add to the cost of everyday goods and services.

One more thing that could help to kick off a rise in inflation or a stumble for the stock market.


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## horseless carriage (Feb 20, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I'm lucky that I don't use much gas these days.
> 
> I am concerned that it will add to the cost of everyday goods and services.
> 
> One more thing that could help to kick off a rise in inflation or a stumble for the stock market.



Don't worry, there's an answer and it's a win, win situation. No fuel bills, you keep trim and no pollution.


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## Jules (Feb 20, 2021)

In this province the price of gas went up yesterday by 16 cents per litre, that’s about 60 cents a gallon.  We don’t get our gas from the US.  Any excuse for price gouging.  It’ll go back down in a few days.

Since we don’t go anywhere, it’s not an issue right now.  Definitely agree with Aunt Bea about price of G&S going up.


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## Buckeye (Feb 20, 2021)

Glowworm said:


> No of course we don't have far to drive, unless you call a daily commute to work of 100 miles there and back which is normal for many people where I live or even further if you live in the northern rural areas "not far"


Well, I drove 1,935 miles last week, 880 in the past 2 days, so your daily commute sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Thank goodness I don't have to do that every week.  These old bones get pretty achy.


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## Buckeye (Feb 20, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> View attachment 151019
> Don't worry, there's an answer and it's a win, win situation. No fuel bills, you keep trim and no pollution.


lol - I had a Triumph Spitfire like this one, only green, and the floor boards were rusted out enough to do this.


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## HoneyNut (Feb 20, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I am concerned that it will add to the cost of everyday goods and services.
> 
> One more thing that could help to kick off a rise in inflation or a stumble for the stock market.



Depressing but probably true.  

Since I want to retire this year I am suddenly more aware of price changes.  I'm not sure how I will handle things like that on a relatively fixed income.


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## fmdog44 (Feb 24, 2021)

There is still an oil glut I can't see gas prices going up for any reason the vacation in the Spring / Summer.


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## J.B Books (Feb 24, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> There is still an oil glut I can't see gas prices going up for any reason the vacation in the Spring / Summer.


It's all based on speculation and futures. Gasoline retailers base the price per gallon  on what it costs them to replace what they have in the ground (tanks) now. Not on what the cost was to buy what they are selling now. 
Closing Federal Land to natural gas and drilling, cancelling XL pipeline and other pipe lines all drive the futures.
We will still get that  oil from Canada, but it now will be shipped via rail. Again costing more.
(by the way George Soros is a huge investor in the Canadian railroad that ships the oil)
Plus the current fiasco in Texas closed refineries for a few days.
Oil glut maybe, but it needs to be refined into gasoline. So if the current supply of gas is not replenished at the same rate as before, the price goes up temporarily. Supply and demand. The price of gas goes up like a rocket and comes down like a feather. Gas should start falling soon as Texas refineries come back on line.


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## chic (Feb 24, 2021)

They've already gone up where I live. $2.49 per gal is the lowest I've seen.


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## Nathan (Feb 24, 2021)

I don't drive much(pandemic or no pandemic) anyway, less than 200 miles a month.


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## Don M. (Feb 24, 2021)

We had to do some running around yesterday, and the gas price was a fairly consistent $2.49/gal as far as 60 miles away from here.  That's 40 or 50 cents more than prices were a couple of weeks ago.  We don't drive much this time of year, so it's no big deal....I'll just be glad if prices stay well below $3/gal.


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## fmdog44 (Mar 7, 2021)

I used to see how good my reflexes ere at the gas pump was $4/gal. the money meter would travel so fast I tried to stop it each time it showed an even dollar amount like 1.00/2.00 etc. The meter was going so fast I could never react fast enough. Back then you could not burn money as fast as the gas pump took your money.


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## Mr. Ed (Mar 7, 2021)

I have a 2021 Hyundai Kona that only gets 21-22 mpg city


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## J.B Books (Mar 7, 2021)

Elections have consequences.
Get used to it my friends.


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## SetWave (Mar 7, 2021)

Sure am glad I'm no longer commuting to work.


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 7, 2021)

I have no idea what gas prices are right now and an increase won't affect me personally. I'm sure my son will continue filling up at Costco where gas is cheaper.


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## Giants fan1954 (Mar 7, 2021)

Be interesting to see what heating fuel and propane go to for next winter...


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## MrPants (Mar 7, 2021)

Some days I have gas that would power pretty much anything that needs to move or provide heat. Not sure I'd want a pipeline installed at the source though!


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## SetWave (Mar 7, 2021)

Remember driving around all night on a dollar's worth of regular or even sometimes fifty cents? Oh sweet youth.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Mar 7, 2021)

MrPants said:


> Some days I have gas that would power pretty much anything that needs to move or provide heat. Not sure I'd want a pipeline installed at the source though!


You could be making lots of $$$.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Mar 7, 2021)

chic said:


> They've already gone up where I live. $2.49 per gal is the lowest I've seen.


I don't get why there's angst about current gas prices? Except maybe Saudi Arabia, most other countries pay much higher prices.


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