# Oldman tell us your stories about your flying experiences.



## Ruth n Jersey

I saw this on another post and thought we might all enjoy your experiences flying and any other pilots as well.
I have a question for you. Where you flying on 9/11? What was the reaction in the cockpit as well as the passengers?


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## old medic

Would enjoy stories, But have a question for you.... The Courageous thread brought the memory back up...
Maxton Laurenburg Airport in NC was a WWII training base, we used one runway for Land Speed Racing..
The place was also used to scrape old commercial airliners.... 
What kind of mindset does it take to FLY a plane to the junkyard?????


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## oldman

Ruth n Jersey said:


> I saw this on another post and thought we might all enjoy your experiences flying and any other pilots as well.
> I have a question for you. Where you flying on 9/11? What was the reaction in the cockpit as well as the passengers?


I was scheduled off on 9/11. I thanked the Lord for that. Normally, I flew on Tuesdays, but on that particular Tuesday, I decided not to fly. I had enough seniority to chose my days and routes and for whatever reason, I decided not to fly on that particular day. We scheduled our flights and routes two weeks ahead. (Scheduling is very complicated.) I never figured out why I decided not to fly on that day.

Two days later, we were cleared to fly again. My first flight was on 9/14, which was a non stop flight from Dulles in Washington, D.C. to Los Angeles (LAX) in a Boeing 757. We only had 17 passengers onboard a plane that seated about 225. We departed at 7:30 a.m. Everyone onboard was very subdued.

Before takeoff (at the gate), we asked for a moment of silence. No one objected.


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## IrisSenior

Oldman, someone was watching over you. It must be an awesome experience to fly a plane. Hats off to you.


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## oldman

old medic said:


> Would enjoy stories, But have a question for you.... The Courageous thread brought the memory back up...
> Maxton Laurenburg Airport in NC was a WWII training base, we used one runway for Land Speed Racing..
> The place was also used to scrape old commercial airliners....
> What kind of mindset does it take to FLY a plane to the junkyard?????


I only flew one plane to the boneyard. It was a Boeing 737 that was being put there to be sold or leased to any company that had a need for it. We flew it from New York to the Mojave boneyard in California. It's really heartbreaking to fly a plane that may be making it's last flight. Unless another company picks it up, it may be used for parts or the entire plane could be scrapped. There is another graveyard in the west, I believe it is located around Tuscon.


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## oldman

IrisSenior said:


> Oldman, someone was watching over you. It must be an awesome experience to fly a plane. Hats off to you.


Flying becomes a passion for most pilots. There are many pilots that would fly 24/7, if possible. Then, there are a few pilots that fly just as a job. Flying is not a job. It's an exciting and very rewarding experience. I have flown with both. I have also blacklisted some pilots that I refuse to fly with because they don't follow procedures. As a pilot, you just cannot skip over following SOP. If you wanted to fly with me, you will fly by the book.


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## oldman

I once had a couple (male & female) request that I marry them. On the high seas, I believe this is legal, but not in the air. I told the couple, OK, I will perform a quick ceremony, but it won’t be legal until you obtain a license and have to repeat the ceremony all over again.

They were fine with that, so I had a flight attendant (F/A) as a witness observe the two minute ceremony and it was over. It was fun and the passengers were amused by it. I learned later, that many of the passengers actually gave them money as a wedding gift.


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## oldman

We were flying home to D.C. (my home airport) from Las Vegas in July. It was very hot in Vegas and also very hot in the East and across the whole country. Late afternoon thunderstorms are frequent in the Central Plains. Kansas City was reporting heavy t’storms, but we weren’t close enough to see them on the plane’s radar. I decided to fly south to go around and under the storms. It would maybe cost us 20 minutes, but we would be safer.

By the book, at that time, the Captain had to request any changes to the flight plan from the Dispatcher. When I requested the change, he declined to approve it. Well, I decided to do it anyway. After I landed, I was handed a note to call my Dispatcher, which I expected. As soon as he answered the phone, he said, “Hello, Lucky.” I asked him why was I lucky. He told me that Kansas City had a small tornado and there were several microbursts around the area. Then he adds, “Good job.”


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## oldman

I flew a heart from New York to Dallas for transplant. I had to be there by such and such a time or the heart wouldn’t be able to be used and the patient may have died. These days, transplants are handled much different than they were back in the early ‘80’s.

I was told that an ambulance would be standing by to pick up the EMT and heart immediately upon arrival. Upon arrival, we had to stop short of the gate and a stairway would be ready to be pushed against the plane, so that the EMT with the heart could exit.

As we were nearing Dallas, we were advised that heavy storms were rolling through, but there were no storms at the airport yet. The ATC told us that we had about a 40 minute window to arrive before the storm would reach the airport. According to the computer, we still had about 50 minutes before touchdown. I requested from ATC that we be given permission to raise our speed from 480 to 540 and to clear all traffic in front of us. The ATC already knew that we had a transplant organ onboard, so he agreed. 

As we were in our final approach, it started raining and we could see lightning just ahead of us. Now, we had to continue to descend and slow the plane. I knew this was going to be a balancing act and it was going to be close. Safety of my passengers were first on my mind. I wasn’t committed to taking any chances.

We came in a little fast and sat the plane down on the runway a little hard, but we just beat the storm by maybe two minutes.


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## Ruth n Jersey

Oldman, great stories,keep them coming. So nice to read something not related to the virus and on a subject I know little about.


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## Kaila

Gosh, you were right to ask for them,  @Ruth n Jersey 

These are great to learn from and to find very interesting.  Thank you to  @oldman  !


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## RadishRose

I really enjoy your stories, @oldman !


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## Pinky

RadishRose said:


> I really enjoy your stories, @oldman !


Ditto .. please tell us more!


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## RadishRose

https://www.amazon.com/High-Mighty-John-Wayne/dp/B000J13RCI


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## jujube

oldman said:


> I only flew one plane to the boneyard. It was a Boeing 737 that was being put there to be sold or leased to any company that had a need for it. We flew it from New York to the Mojave boneyard in California. It's really heartbreaking to fly a plane that may be making it's last flight. Unless another company picks it up, it may be used for parts or the entire plane could be scrapped. There is another graveyard in the west, I believe it is located around Tuscon.



I've seen the one near Tuscon. 

It seems like I also saw what might be a "boneyard" somewhere around Roswell, NM;  there were a lot of planes parked there in orderly rows.   Maybe just a storage facility?


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## jerry old

sort'a off target
Military boneyard in Arizona or New Mexico.
Depressing at the # of obsolete military aircraft that the taxpayers paid for now rotting away.  
They do salvage some spare parts, but primarily they rot away,
eventually junked out


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## oldman

RadishRose said:


> https://www.amazon.com/High-Mighty-John-Wayne/dp/B000J13RCI


Oh, that's a great story. I was actually an engineer at DuPont before I became a pilot. After two years of that, I told my dad that I had enough of sitting in a cubicle drawing circles and squares, so to speak. He asked me what else would I rather be doing. I told him that I always wanted to fly. He said he knew that by all the model airplanes that I had put together. I tried to fly in the military, but they told me that I was too tall, which I found later was a lie. I had also tried to get a nomination from my Congressman to attend the Naval Academy, but he wrote to me stating that my GPA wasn't high enough and that I was beat out by other candidates with a higher GPA. Oh, well.

I attended flight school and two weeks before graduation was recruiting day when airline recruiters would be able to come to the school and try to persuade some of the students to work for them. I was approached by three air lines probably because I finished second in my class. Each one interviewed  me for about 30-45 minutes and each one told me that they would get back to me. A few weeks later I began to receive letters. The first one that came was from Air Wisconsin, which was my first choice. I also received offers from the other two, but even though AW wasn't the best offer, it was my choice. After two years, I was bumped to their contract flights flying under the name United Express. I flew for AW for eight years, until I got a call that would change my life forever. I had sent my resume to United Airlines and waited for almost two years before they reached out to me. "Can you come down to Dulles for an interview?" "You bet your Bippy I can." 

I started out flying the Boeing 737, then advanced up to a 757 and then a 767 and finally the 747. After two years of flying the B-747 between Chicago and Hawaii, I was ready to stay put in the U.S. and returned back to the B-757 & 767. I never had a true desire to fly international and I have no regrets not doing that, although if I could have done it as a here and there type schedule, I may have tried that, but we had to make a choice. You either fly domestic or international. Choosing what plane and what routes are a tricky ordeal and are mostly based on seniority. Same for moving up the ladder to become a Captain. 

When I decided to change planes from what I was flying, which was the Boeing 757 and 767, I wanted to fly the 747 and I chose the Chicago to Hawaii route. First, I had to become certified. To do that meant spending hours in a simulator. Luckily, my home airport, which was Dulles in D.C. had a 747 sim. (We call them sim for short.) I think I spent about 60 or 70 hours learning the 747 avionics. Then, of course, I had to actually fly the real plane. When a pilot changes airplane certifications he has to have so many hours of flying, plus so many takeoffs and landings and then fly the plane with a check pilot watching over his/her shoulder. The pilot in training has to be evaluated by the check pilot several times before he receives his certification. Once he is good to go, it is not unusual if someone from the FAA goes along for the ride to make sure th pilot is ready to command the aircraft. 


jujube said:


> I've seen the one near Tuscon.
> 
> It seems like I also saw what might be a "boneyard" somewhere around Roswell, NM;  there were a lot of planes parked there in orderly rows.   Maybe just a storage facility?


Gee, I'm sorry, I never kept up with the planes that got stored and exactly where all of the storage facilities are located. The facility that I went to was like visiting a cemetery. Very solemn with sand and dust blowing in the wind on a hot afternoon. It kind of broke my heart to see the many planes just sitting around without a future. And then, I think about the billions of dollars that are just going to waist.


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## oldman

jerry old said:


> sort'a off target
> Military boneyard in Arizona or New Mexico.
> Depressing at the # of obsolete military aircraft that the taxpayers paid for now rotting away.
> They do salvage some spare parts, but primarily they rot away,
> eventually junked out


That's right. In fact, I heard a story one time years ago that there are more military planes in storage than commercial aircraft. Billions and billions of dollars just sitting. To put things in perspective, the cost of just one engine for a Boeing 747 is about *$250 million* times four.


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## Gaer

Wow!  Those stories were INCREDIBLE!  I'll bet you have so many more!  More ,please?


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## oldman

Back in June of 1999, I was scheduled to take a flight from Miami to New York. When I got to the airport, which by the way is beautiful, I had an e-mail waiting for me to see the United Dispatcher. I walk into her office and she tells me that she has some great news. I told her good, I need to hear some great news. She told me that on my flight will be a U.S. Marshall and he will be accompanying a Federal fugitive back to New York. I said "What? I thought the Feds had their own airline?" She said they do, but for whatever reason, they can't fly him. (GROAN) He was to be the last passenger onto the plane and the first one off in New York. Oh Goody! Three hours of babysitting.

This was back before we had to lock our cockpit doors and so on. After everyone else was seated and we were ready for pushback from the gate, the ATC tells me that we are on hold waiting for a special package to be delivered. "Yeah, I know." After 10 minutes of waiting, I contacted ATC and told them I have to go now or I am going to be late. The ATC comes back and says, "He's on the bridge now." Finally, he came aboard. He looked like he had the crap beat out of him, hadn't shaved in a week and forgot to pack clean clothes. He gets seated all the way back in the last row. The plane wasn't full, so we moved a young couple up to first class and kept the last four rows vacant. The couple had just got married and was returning home from their honeymoon, so why not give them a little present and seat them in first class? The prisoner had hand cuffs on and when he was seated, his legs were shackled. The passengers were none to happy, but no one made a fuss.

This is a 3-hour flight and we are 2-hours into it, so we are around Baltimore. I started to think, "This went better than I expected." I must have jinxed us when I thought that. All of a sudden he starts making animal sounds. "Moo, quack quack, cock-a doodle-do, ruff ruff, meow meow" and on and on for about ten minutes. The Purser is calling me about these noises and I asked her what was the Marshall doing? She said, "Nothing. In fact, he's just sitting there ignoring him." I told her to do the same and tell the passengers to just ignore him. He soon stopped. Then, he has to go to the lavatory. He comes back to his seat and now he needs a drink. Then he starts begging for a cigarette. Anything to be nuisance.

Finally, we are getting the plane ready to land. I had the F/O (First Officer) make an announcement to "Please remain seated at the gate until our guest has deplaned, then you may get up and retrieve your items from the overhead bins." We open the main cabin doors and two guys dressed in swat gear come rushing in and stick their uzi's in his face while the Marshall removes his leg shackles. They were gone fairly quick and calm prevailed. Well, about as much calm as one could expect with 180 passengers trying to get off an airplane.


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## Gaer

Ooh!  Exciting!  My late husband was a Federal Marshall and has flown many, many fugitives all over the U.S.  I found his stories so exciting too!


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## rkunsaw

I gots an airplane story. The year was 1961. I was an Airman 3rd Class, in the USAF stationed at Tinker AFB. Midwest City, Oklahoma. 
We were going on a joint mission to the Panama Canal Zone. We loaded a C124 with a 6x6, a jeep, a beacon, and a Diesel power unit. Then we got on and away we went. Well we didn't go far. About halfway down the runway we came to a screeching halt. 
We taxied back to the apron and a couple of people brought out a ladder and started working on one of the engines. I guess it was about a half hour and we were ready to go again.
Here we go...oops, same thing again. They brought out the ladder and worked on the same engine another 30 minutes or so. 
Third try we made it. it's a long way from Oklahoma to Panama and there was a plane load of nervous eyes watching that engine.


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## oldman

rkunsaw said:


> I gots an airplane story. The year was 1961. I was an Airman 3rd Class, in the USAF stationed at Tinker AFB. Midwest City, Oklahoma.
> We were going on a joint mission to the Panama Canal Zone. We loaded a C124 with a 6x6, a jeep, a beacon, and a Diesel power unit. Then we got on and away we went. Well we didn't go far. About halfway down the runway we came to a screeching halt.
> We taxied back to the apron and a couple of people brought out a ladder and started working on one of the engines. I guess it was about a half hour and we were ready to go again.
> Here we go...oops, same thing again. They brought out the ladder and worked on the same engine another 30 minutes or so.
> Third try we made it. it's a long way from Oklahoma to Panama and there was a plane load of nervous eyes watching that engine.


Sounds like something minor, if it was a quick fix. Maybe a clogged fuel filter of something similar. I saw those big C series airplanes. I used to drive by Dover Air Base. They almost look like they are sitting still in the sky.


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## oldman

We had arrived at LAX from Washington and everyone was off the plane, the flight crew in back was finishing up cleaning and putting things away and the F/O and I were finishing the paperwork. Finally, we were all able to leave the plane together. The plan was to head down to the flight crew’s lounge and pick up our schedule for the next day before heading to the hotel.

As we were walking through the airport, a young lady about my age had just walked out of the bathroom and almost bumped into me. She immediately excused herself and then she asked me if that was real. I was confused and asked her is what real? She pointed to my wings and again she asked is that real gold? I told her that they were gold plated, but not solid gold. She asked me if I would sit with her for awhile because she was with friends, but they had gone somewhere, but not sure where.

I kind of thought she looked familiar, but I couldn’t place her. I asked her if she would like to grab a cup of coffee. She said sure, so I knew there was a donut shop just ahead and led her there to “The Donut Hole.” While we were talking, she asked me if I knew who she was. I told her no, but I think I may have seen here before. She told me that she was Estelle Bennett. I was still a bit confused and then she told me that she was one of the Ronettes. That’s when I started shaking my head and told her, “Yes, I remember now.” She was really a cool person.


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## RadishRose

Oh my! I remember them. I loved their songs.


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## peppermint

THE RONETTES - BE MY BABY


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## RadishRose

peppermint said:


> THE RONETTES - BE MY BABY


YES!!!!


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## RadishRose

Estelle was Ronnie's sister. The other was a cousin.


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## Gaer

Did you ever dive or spin or lose control of the aircraft? Did you ever fly in storms with no visability?  Were you ever frightened while flying?
Did you always know you wanted to be an aviator?  Have you ever flown a smaller plane?  Did you ever have to land on water?  When you were a child, did you play-pretend that you were a pilot?


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## Capt Lightning

Oldman, maybe you could answer this....
When I worked in Amsterdam, I stayed in the Marriott hotel and a lot of flight crews stayed there too.  I got to know some of the pilots - mainly in the bar.  One time when my wife was staying with me, we saw a fairly short pilot come in and Mrs. l wondered if the cockpit seats were adjustable.  We asked one of the pilots (who mainly flew 747 cargo flights) and instead of a simple answer, we got a whole story of the difficulty in flying different sizes of planes and how you had to set up things to get the proper perspective for landing.

Is this the case?  Do you adjust the seats to suit the pilots ?  Are there specified height ranges for pilots?


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## squatting dog

If anyone ever gets around Tucson, you have to take in the plane museum. Be advised, it'll take most of the day to see most of it. Besides the museum building's and grounds all around it, the ticket includes a trip to the military boneyard across the highway. It's awesome.


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## oldman

Estelle is on the left. She died about 10 years ago of colon cancer. She seemed to be very intelligent. She had told me that she wanted to be a clothing designer. And,  I also read where she was homeless for awhile.  If I had known that I would have invited her to stay with us. She was kind of shy, but sweet girl. I also thought she was so cool. She told me that she didn't like Phil Specter, but then again, who did? Talk about a whack job. 

All three of the girls were related. Estelle and Ronnie were sisters and the third girl, Nedra Talley was a cousin. I think she sort of lost her mind later in life. I know she was anorexic. I spoke with a friend of their's just a few years after I had met her and he told me that the other two girls kind of deserted her because of mental issues. To me, it seemed to be just a shame how her life turned out.


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## oldman

Gaer said:


> Did you ever dive or spin or lose control of the aircraft? Did you ever fly in storms with no visability?  Were you ever frightened while flying?
> Did you always know you wanted to be an aviator?  Have you ever flown a smaller plane?  Did you ever have to land on water?  When you were a child, did you play-pretend that you were a pilot?


WOW!!! You asked more questions than at career day in high schools. Well, almost more.
I never lost control of a plane that I was flying, but I did a few times while flying a sim. (Simulator)
Oh, I flew in some really terrible storms. Once, I even flew above a tornado. You should see what a funnel cloud looks like from the other side. I also took off in a blizzard in Chicago and I landed in what was almost a blizzard in Salt Lake City. They were going to be closing the airport and the ATC asked me if I could divert. I told him no and that I didn't have enough fuel to do that. (I lied.) When you are flying and coming down through the clouds and it's either pouring down rain or snowing to beat the band, you can't see anything, including the runway. At nighttime, it's like having a blindfold on. You better be a really good pilot and trust your instruments. Was I ever frightened when flying? Hmmm...No, I can't remember a time when I was. When I was a little boy, I wanted to be a pilot and I built many models from kits. Mostly military planes. At flight school, I flew small airplanes that were gas powered and had propellers. Big difference between those and the jets of today. My favorite small plane was the Cessna 172. The only water landings that I made were in a sim. I made many of them just for practice. Here again, there is a huge difference landing on a river, where the water is generally much calmer than landing on an ocean where the water is unpredictable. When Sully made his landing on the Hudson, he had very calm water, but he executed the landing perfectly. I remember when he wrote a column in our magazine we get a few times each year and he wrote about water landings. He was the right man in the right place at the right time. Those passengers had the best there was at water landings and he didn't disappoint. A great airman, that's for certain. If a pilot has to ditch into an ocean and there are waves, Oh Boy!! I don't think he's going to walk (or swim) away from that one.

Thanks for asking. I hope you understand my answers.


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## Gaer

Oh!  Holy Crap!  Wow!  Thanks for answering those!  I heard of many other pilots that knew from when they were born that that's what they wanted to be!  VERY INTERESTING!


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## RadishRose

oldman said:


> Estelle is on the left. She died about 10 years ago of colon cancer. She seemed to be very intelligent. She had told me that she wanted to be a clothing designer. And,  I also read where she was homeless for awhile.  If I had known that I would have invited her to stay with us. She was kind of shy, but sweet girl. I also thought she was so cool. She told me that she didn't like Phil Specter, but then again, who did? Talk about a whack job.
> 
> All three of the girls were related. Estelle and Ronnie were sisters and the third girl, Nedra Talley was a cousin. I think she sort of lost her mind later in life. I know she was anorexic. I spoke with a friend of their's just a few years after I had met her and he told me that the other two girls kind of deserted her because of mental issues. To me, it seemed to be just a shame how her life turned out.


Omg, this video reminds me of the childhood I never really had long enough.

So sad about the other two. Yes, Spector was a sound genius, but a murdering  weirdo.

Ronnie's mother first named them "Ronnie and the Relatives".

Back on topic, I was lucky enough to visit the Bradley Air Museum shortly before the tornado almost wiped it out. Thrilling.  The size of a troop carrier is mind blowing.

I'd rather fly an F15 than anything else. No time to get scared, LOL!

Amazing is the Harrier Jump Jet. No runway needed and it can hover. So cool.

Funny, I'm nervous flying, but I love aircraft.


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## oldman

When I was in Vietnam, we were pinned down in the jungle north of the Mekong River. This was my first ever encounter with the enemy. The Sergeant yelled to the radioman to call in the birds. *Wait! What? *Everyone starts retreating back into the jungle deeper and deeper and then we had to lay flat and hope for the best. Two- F-4's come screaming in. You almost see them before you hear them. They dropped Napalm. It smelled terrible. President Johnson was big on body counts. At first, the Sergeant yelled to get a body count, but before I got to them, someone yelled that there was just pieces lying around. Sarge says, "Forget it."


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## oldman

RadishRose said:


> Omg, this video reminds me of the childhood I never really had long enough.
> 
> So sad about the other two. Yes, Spector was a sound genius, but a murdering  weirdo.
> 
> Ronnie's mother first named them "Ronnie and the Relatives".
> 
> Back on topic, I was lucky enough to visit the Bradley Air Museum shortly before the tornado almost wiped it out. Thrilling.  The size of a troop carrier is mind blowing.
> 
> I'd rather fly an F15 than anything else. No time to get scared, LOL!
> 
> Amazing is the Harrier Jump Jet. No runway needed and it can hover. So cool.
> 
> Funny, I'm nervous flying, but I love aircraft.


I saw my first Harrier about twenty years ago down at Annapolis at the Air Show for Veterans. Great, just great!!


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## RadishRose

oldman said:


> I saw my first Harrier about twenty years ago down at Annapolis at the Air Show for Veterans. Great, just great!!


Lucky you!!


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## oldman

If I had a chance to fly one of the military fighter jets, I would learn to do barrel rolls. It would be an awesome experience to fly at Mach 2.


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## Gaer

oldman said:


> If I had a chance to fly one of the military fighter jets, I would learn to do barrel rolls. It would be an awesome experience to fly at Mach 2.


OMG!!!!!!!  This has got to be SO EXCITING!  But, Why were you never frightened?  Were you completely sure of yourself all the time?


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## Liberty

squatting dog said:


> If anyone ever gets around Tucson, you have to take in the plane museum. Be advised, it'll take most of the day to see most of it. Besides the museum building's and grounds all around it, the ticket includes a trip to the military boneyard across the highway. It's awesome.
> 
> View attachment 98226View attachment 98227View attachment 98228View attachment 98229


I've been there and its really very very interesting.  Never knew there were some crazy looking aircraft like we saw in that old boneyard.  Somewhere there are probably some pics I took, now if I could just remember...


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## squatting dog

Liberty said:


> I've been there and its really very very interesting.  Never knew there were some crazy looking aircraft like we saw in that old boneyard.  Somewhere there are probably some pics I took, now if I could just remember...


LOL, yep. by the time I got over to the boneyard, my camera batteries had died. Still, they had some strange ones outside of the buildings.


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## Liberty

Remember one, Squat, that looked like a cartoon...a big fat round plane with funny wings that looked like it wouldn't even be able to fly.  Wish someone would publish a catalog of those different planes.  I'd sure buy it.  the one 
with the fancy paint job looks like something Janis Joplin would have owned...lol.


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## fmdog44

Great stories Oldman. My dad traveled a lot in his work and as a kid I always loved going to and from airports to pick him up or drop him off. Back then you could walk outside and stand behind the gates and watch the planes or go to the watch tower for a better view. Now I live about 8 miles west of  Bush Intercontinental airport and enjoy sitting on my balcony watching the planes fly over as the approach. I still am in awe of the 747s as the come in because from the ground it looks as if they are at a snails pace and you realize the immense power it takes to get them up and keep them up. I used to fly in my work constantly and loved every trip. The "puddle jumpers" were especially fun as the winds threw them around like a toy.


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## Liberty

We used to own a Navajo commuter plane. Sold it after the ATF rented it for Waco...we would see the front nose of it sitting off to the side of the picture about every night on the news and when they brought back the dead agents in it, that was it, we sold it.


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## oldman

fmdog44 said:


> Great stories Oldman. My dad traveled a lot in his work and as a kid I always loved going to and from airports to pick him up or drop him off. Back then you could walk outside and stand behind the gates and watch the planes or go to the watch tower for a better view. Now I live about 8 miles west of  Bush Intercontinental airport and enjoy sitting on my balcony watching the planes fly over as the approach. I still am in awe of the 747s as the come in because from the ground it looks as if they are at a snails pace and you realize the immense power it takes to get them up and keep them up. I used to fly in my work constantly and loved every trip. The "puddle jumpers" were especially fun as the winds threw them around like a toy.


United stopped flying the 747's. They have been replaced with the Triple 7's or Boeing 777. The neat thing about the 747 is the two decks. I really liked sitting up high above the ground when taxiing. For such a huge plane, they were very easy to maneuver on the ground. I especially enjoyed the sounds of the 747's that had Rolls Royce engines on them. They are very quiet and when you reach the end of the runway and are cleared for takeoff, we spool up the engines and then release the brake and off we go. Once we get rolling, we push the accelerators fully forward to gain maximum thrust for takeoff. The RR engines have a very distinctive sound of their own. I can tell a RR engine from a GE or a PW (Pratt & Whitney) blindfolded. 

I spoke with pilots that flew the Airbus A-380, which is the largest passenger jet. I asked them to compare it to the 747 and what would they say is the main difference. The consensus among the pilots that I asked that question to said it was the power. The one pilot said that he could feel the inertia of the thrust throughout his body and that his heart would actually speed up from the force of the inertia. Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't. It could have been just his anxiety, but it would have been interesting to find out if it was or wasn't true.


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## oldman

Gaer said:


> OMG!!!!!!!  This has got to be SO EXCITING!  But, Why were you never frightened?  Were you completely sure of yourself all the time?


Confidence, my dear, just confidence.


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## Pinky

oldman said:


> Confidence, my dear, just confidence.


...and, we would expect nothing less from our airline pilots. Thank you for flying us safe, oldman


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## oldman

There was a time when in Alaska they averaged one plane crash a day. Many people that live in Alaska live in remote locations. There easiest way to get around is to fly. So, several of them would buy a cheap small plane, take some lessons, get their license to fly a single engine nothing of a plane and fly on their own. These people are not true aviators and that's why they crashed. Many died, but many were lucky and survived their crash. 

You just don't get behind the yoke or control wheel and takeoff and when you get to where you are going land. It's not that simple. Flying is very complicated and also very in depth. It takes years to become a truly good aviator. Howard Hughes learned that the hard way. Check out the movie "The Aviator" sometime.


----------



## Gaer

Liked that movie.  It seemed when I lived in Alaska, every other person, (I might be exaggerating a little)  a LOT of people up there either had at least 3 boats in their yard (we did) or a pilot's licence.  Many had their own little planes and would fly to the bush.  Pretty common! But there is NO WAY  to equate WHAT YOU DO with THAT!  Two different species!  I think we all have the deepest respect for your skill and   . . .  "Confidence"!


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## oldman

We had left Boston at 6 a.m. on a really cold morning in the middle of January. We had to take a flight to Denver and then down to Dallas later in the day. We were flying an almost brand new Boeing 737. The plane had less than 500 hours on it. It had that new car smell to it. You have all smelled that smell before, right?

On board, was Andy Warhol and his publicist. I had already had bigger personalities on some of my previous flights, so he didn't ring my bell, so to speak. Of course, they both sat in first class. I also had about 20 skiers flying with us and they were excited to get to Denver and then to the resorts to fly. One young lady told me that this was her first flight. I told her, "Yeah, me too." She looked at her boyfriend and said, "Holy crap." He told her not to worry, he's just kidding. 

We get about 80 miles from Denver and start going through the landing checklist to configure the plane for landing into Denver, which at that time was Stapleton Airport, which was one of United's major hubs. We're running down the checklist and the F/O says, "Gear down." Uh-oh. the nose wheel did not extend. We retracted the gear and tried again. Still, no nose gear. Do it again. No nose gear. 

I tell the F/O to check what the CRM (Cockpit Resource Manual) says to do. He tells me that one of us has to go down into the Hell Hole and crank down the nose gear. So, here, you have to understand that if the nose gear does not extend, one of the pilots can lift up a trap door in the floor of the cockpit, which we call the Hell Hole and get down in there and crank it down manually. I'm the Captain, so guess who goes down into the hole? Right, the F/O. He goes down and cranks it down until we get a green light on the instrument panel of the plane and that means the gear is now down and locked. BTW, the Hell Hole is cold, very cold and dark, except this being a newer plane, they did put a small light down there. It's also very tight. for space. 

The mechanic tells me later that the sensor was stuck open and he replaced it.


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## Gaer

I have to tell you, these stories make me tremble.  You're WAY to tall to crawl down there anyway.  You are so verbally proficient and make these stories SO EXCITING, have you ever thought of putting these in a book and getting it published?  All these celebrities you met; Did any of them make any profound impressions on you?  Or you on them?


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## Pinky

@Ruth n Jersey .. thank you for starting this thread!
@ oldman .. thank you for indulging us with your compelling stories.


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## Pappy

Many, many years ago, when my wife worked as a Mary Kay rep., she flew into Dallas-Fort Worth airport. The next day, a plane crashed because of a micro burst and many people perished. I was so darn grateful that she had arrived earlier. I seem to remember you mentioning this a while back Oldman.


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## oldman

Pinky said:


> @Ruth n Jersey .. thank you for starting this thread!
> @ oldman .. thank you for indulging us with your compelling stories.



Oh, Ruth you are quite welcome. I am glad that you enjoy them. My wife was-is always pretty nonchalant when I start talking aviation.
We have a warning system on planes called “TCAS,” which stands for Traffic Collision Avoidance System. The way it works is that if two planes are on the same tract heading toward one another and will collide, it sounds a warning like: “Descend Now! Descend Now!” The other plane will get a warning like: “Climb Now! Climb Now!”

We were flying from Dallas back to D.C. and I still remember how happy I was to be going home. I had been gone for nine straight days and missed my family. I think we were around Little Rock when the alarm was sounded for us to “Descend Now!” The ATC is also supposed to be paying attention to make sure that planes aren’t on the same path in opposite directions. Obviously, this didn’t happen. The SOP is that when you receive a TCAS warning, you move in the direction that the warning advises you to by 2000 ft. We did as directed, then waited. We could tell when he passed by. We kind of felt a small wake.

Technology is great.


----------



## RadishRose

Whew!


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## oldman

Pappy said:


> Many, many years ago, when my wife worked as a Mary Kay rep., she flew into Dallas-Fort Worth airport. The next day, a plane crashed because of a micro burst and many people perished. I was so darn grateful that she had arrived earlier. I seem to remember you mentioning this a while back Oldman.


Yes, that was a Delta, L-1011, which at the time was considered one of the most safest planes in the skies. Terrible accident, but believe it or not, because of that accident, planes are now fitted with Doppler radar, which is located in the nose of the plane. Planes also now have colored radar screens, which the pilots can read the color to indicate the weather like, ice, thunderstorms, wind shears and microbursts and also snow.


----------



## oldman

Pappy raises a good point. Every time there was or is an accident, the NTSB, investigates the accident and their job is to determine the cause of the accident. When they do their final report, they send completed documentation stating the details of the accident, their determined cause and recommendations to make sure there is not another accident caused by the same particular element. 

That report is then sent to the FAA, who also follows up on the investigation and takes under advisement the NTSB’s recommendations. Keep in mind, the NTSB is only an investigative office while the FAA is a regulatory organization that can strongly make recommendations to Congress to have laws passed to make any and all transportation safer.


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## Gaer

Would you post a close-up photo of yourself in your uniform?  This way we can put a face to the wonderful stories!  and . . Please keepthestories coming!


----------



## oldman

Gaer said:


> Would you post a close-up photo of yourself in your uniform?  This way we can put a face to the wonderful stories!  and . . Please keepthestories coming!


You will have to give me some time to consider your request. Unbeknownst to many of you, there are two other former United pilots that also post here, (not very often), and I don't want them to know my identity for personal reasons, if you can understand that.


----------



## oldman

There was a really good depiction of an accident on "Air Disasters, " which airs in the evenings here in the East on the Smithsonian Channel. A Russian passenger jet carrying 69 passengers and crew and a 2-man crew in a jet carrying freight for the carrier DHL and was a Boeing 757 (which is the same plane that I flew), crashed over a small plane in Germany. 

There was a Swiss ATC that was monitoring the two flights, along with his airport's coming and goings. He was the only ATC on duty at the time, so he was fairly over-whelmed by the workload. Anyway, he spotted the two planes on his radar and recognized that they were on a collision course. He called the Russian plane and told them to "Descend Immediately", (I believe). Then, he called the DHL plane and told them to "Climb Immediately." In the meantime, both planes were receiving TCAS warnings just opposite of what the ATC was giving the two planes. 

Now, both Captains in the two planes were confused. The one Captain followed SOP and did what TCAS told him to do, while the Captain in the other plane did what the ATC instructed him to do. This kept both planes on a collision course and they did collide killing everyone on the two planes. 

The SOP when a Captain receives a TCAS warning and a warning from the ATC is different is to always follow the TCAS warning, no ifs, ands or buts. About a year and a half later, a Russian father and husband who had two children and his wife onboard the Russian plane hunted down the ATC that gave the planes the instructions and killed him. He wanted satisfaction. I think he may have even gotten off of the charges by the judge or jury. I forget that part. Here is a short story on the accident if you care to watch. The first YouTube video shows a quick look at the accident. The second video shows how the accident played out. I can't watch some of these shows as they truly break my heart.


----------



## Gaer

You trying to make me cry?  Well, It worked!  I can't . . I don't know what to say.  I can't speak or write.


----------



## oldman

Gaer said:


> You trying to make me cry?  Well, It worked!  I can't . . I don't know what to say.  I can't speak or write.


Maybe that’s because you feel the empathy for the families. For me, it’s pilots that do not follow SOP. Something as simple as this and how many lives were lost, but also how many families also suffered. We go over this and over this in every training session. Every pilot must attend ‘x’ amount of training hours, including time in the simulator for the plane that they are certified to fly.

In that handbook is a statement that is repeated over and over. “When in doubt, always follow SOP.”


----------



## Gaer

Wow!  I REALLY have the highest respect for what you do.  I used to go with an air traffic controller.  Tall, handsome, He ate one entire bottle of Tums antacids per day!  Both that position and being a pilot (officer) has to be a horribly stressful career.  Hat's off to you!  But those videos, cried my eyes out watching them.  Glad you went by the book!


----------



## oldman

Gaer said:


> Wow!  I REALLY have the highest respect for what you do.  I used to go with an air traffic controller.  Tall, handsome, He ate one entire bottle of Tums antacids per day!  Both that position and being a pilot (officer) has to be a horribly stressful career.  Hat's off to you!  But those videos, cried my eyes out watching them.  Glad you went by the book!



IMO, I think ATC is more stressed than pilots. At the larger airports, a pilot may speak to 3-5 different controllers before he/she is cleared for t/o (takeoff). Think about that. Pilots can’t even pushback or start their engines until a controller gives permission to do so.


----------



## Gaer

Who are the celebrities you,ve flown and how did they impress you (or not) and how did you impress them?


----------



## oldman

OK, so I had to leaf through my journal for recall. I did remember both Doris Day and Debbie Reynolds. They immediately stood out in my mind because they were so kind to our flight attendants. I flew several celebs flying from LA to New York. Many were flying to appear on talk shows like Carson or Oprah. 

One of my faves was Rick Ocasek, who sang off and on lead for the Cars. He wasn't anything like I would have expected. He was a very likable person and apparently very talented. I remember him telling my copilot that he was going to New York to meet up with the band to play a concert somewhere there. I didn't catch the whole conversation. 

There are just to many to list and many that were on my flights that I didn't even know about until after we landed and one of the F/A's would tell me that such and such was on the flight. I remember flying one of my favorite authors, Stephen King, who whispered in my ear, "I'm afraid of flying." So, like I told everyone that said things like to me, I told him, "Yeah, me too." We both had a good laugh and he seemed more relaxed. I think he was flying to Chicago to be on Oprah. I seldom read the manifest. 

Just like anyone in life, you remember people when related things in your life happens. Someone may be talking about a car wreck and that sparks a memory of another story that you remember out of the blue. I was never star-struck by any of them, but I found them to be unique in their own special way. A few even have quirks. 

Several years ago, I think Billy Graham had his own plane, but for whatever reason, he was on one of our flights. I wasn't aware of that until the Purser called me on the intercom and told me, "Hey, thought you may want to know that Billy Graham is with us today." OK, I have to go out and welcome him aboard and do a little PR work. I walked up to his seat and told him "Welcome aboard." He was very kind and polite, but really had very words. He tanked me and then asked, "Do you think we'll be on time?" 

Oh, I just found Danny Devito's name in my journal. I think he is under 5' tall and I stood next to him because his Publicist, who was traveling with him wanted our picture together. Danny asked me if I mind and I told him it's up to him. It probably looked like me standing next to Shaquille Oneal. This was back in the early '80's and I think he was still doing the TV show "Taxi." 

I also had the Ramsey's on a flight from Denver to LA. We didn't exchange any words. That was back when she was being investigated for her daughter's death. 

That's enough for now.


----------



## Marlene

old medic said:


> Would enjoy stories, But have a question for you.... The Courageous thread brought the memory back up...
> Maxton Laurenburg Airport in NC was a WWII training base, we used one runway for Land Speed Racing..
> The place was also used to scrape old commercial airliners....
> What kind of mindset does it take to FLY a plane to the junkyard?????


Wow, your post gave me a flashback.  I spent 20 some years teaching at UNC-Pembroke, and seldom meet anyone who even has a clue where Laurinburg, Maxton, Red Springs, and Pembroke are.  Were you from that area or just there during the War?


----------



## Gaer

4/09/2020 Just heard on Fox news:  40 % of the airline industry is now being mothballed.  Did you hear that?


----------



## oldman

I’m surprised that it stopped at 40%. I heard from a friend that is still flying that a United plane flew from here in the East to LA with one passenger onboard. I haven’t been able to confirm that yet.


----------



## Gaer

What do you think will happen to the airline industry after the pandemic is over? Will people stop flying?


----------



## old medic

Marlene said:


> Wow, your post gave me a flashback.  I spent 20 some years teaching at UNC-Pembroke, and seldom meet anyone who even has a clue where Laurinburg, Maxton, Red Springs, and Pembroke are.  Were you from that area or just there during the War?



OUCH... How old you making me????? LOL.... But I wish i could have been there to see it... It was built to train Glider Pilots for the Normandy invasion... 
We used the long runway for Land Speed Racing.... started out by a local testing and tuning to go to the Bonneville Salt Flats, grew into the 3rd place in the US to do that type of racing... Was taken over by a military training group and shut down several years back. 
We are about 3 hours west near Chimney Rock, But 6 weekends a year we lived either at the Track, Or Pine Acres Motel...


----------



## Marlene

old medic said:


> OUCH... How old you making me????? LOL.... But I wish i could have been there to see it... It was built to train Glider Pilots for the Normandy invasion...
> We used the long runway for Land Speed Racing.... started out by a local testing and tuning to go to the Bonneville Salt Flats, grew into the 3rd place in the US to do that type of racing... Was taken over by a military training group and shut down several years back.
> We are about 3 hours west near Chimney Rock, But 6 weekends a year we lived either at the Track, Or Pine Acres Motel...


Well, since I have no idea how old you are   I wasn't sure, but was a bit pleased and amazed to think you might be. . . Ah yes, Chimney Flats. I always passed right by there on my way to Ohio to visit family. That's a pretty part of the state. 

I had to look up land speed racing to see exactly what it was. My dad built and races stock cars on dirt tracks the whole time I was growing up (he was a mechanic and painter and detailer by trade). So I'm familiar with that type of racing more than other types.


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## fmdog44

Back in the 40s or 50s my dad was on  plane that lost power in both engines and was headed toward planet earth. The plane regained power and landed all safe. He kept the story in a newspaper clipping. The reason it made the paper is Elizabeth Taylor was also on board. I was on a flight with the Utah Jazz basketball team and it was funny watching them walk down the center isle as they had to duck to keep from scrapping their heads on the ceiling.


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## old medic

Sorry Oldman... Kinda hi-jacked your thread... (no Pun intended).... 
Im about to turn 57, grew up around dirt track racing in NY, Did alot of help building tuning and some seat time. Got involved helping some folks attempting to take back the Production Motorcycle Record at Bonneville that Harley had held since the 50s... (We Did) But that opened a Pandora's Box, Our son wanted to race, and at 15 build a 250 Honda Rebel.... and finished 10th in points the 1st year.... Started getting other ride offers.. 
He has set records over 200 MPH at 4 different tracks Eventually setting a record that was , At the time, 7th fastest sit on motorcycle in the world....




Does that count as FLYING ?????


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## CarolfromTX

Many years ago, Dave and I were on our way to Bali. We were in business class on a 747, so upstairs. I was curious about what the cockpit looked like, so I asked the stewardess if I could visit the cockpit, so she asked the Captain, and he said YES! Dave was shocked. And then jealous! I got to sit behind the pilot, and remember being surprised that there wasn't a wheel (yoke?) , but a joystick. The pilots were wonderful, pointing out the coast of Viet Nam and whatnot.  They invited me back when we landed in Denpasar. That was incredible! Airport was right on the ocean. It was all I could do as we got lower and lower not to start shouting, "Pull up! Pull up!" LOL! This was before 9/11 of course.


----------



## oldman

CarolfromTX said:


> Many years ago, Dave and I were on our way to Bali. We were in business class on a 747, so upstairs. I was curious about what the cockpit looked like, so I asked the stewardess if I could visit the cockpit, so she asked the Captain, and he said YES! Dave was shocked. And then jealous! I got to sit behind the pilot, and remember being surprised that there wasn't a wheel (yoke?) , but a joystick. The pilots were wonderful, pointing out the coast of Viet Nam and whatnot.  They invited me back when we landed in Denpasar. That was incredible! Airport was right on the ocean. It was all I could do as we got lower and lower not to start shouting, "Pull up! Pull up!" LOL! This was before 9/11 of course.


Well, seriously, I flew the 747 for just a little over two years. All Boeing planes, which the 747 is made by Boeing, only uses a yoke or some call it a control wheel. Only the Airbus has a side-stick or joystick. Using the side-stick is also called “fly by wire” technology.

I know that Boeing played around with the side-stick, so you must have been on one of their experimental planes with the side-stick. In today’s aviation world, it’s really up to the airlines’ policies who and who cannot visit the cockpit. We do allow them, but only if the plane is on the ground and if it’s convenient for the pilots to do so. United has strict protocols in place for pilots that need to use the lavatory. Look at what happened when the pilot left the cockpit in the Germanwings plane that flew into the Alps.


----------



## CarolfromTX

Well, I'm sure you're right. I got to do this experience a couple times -- once when taking off from the old Tai Tak Airport in Hong Kong on a rainy morning.  So amazing. Dave came along that time. He wasn't bold enough to ask, but he sure was glad when I asked on both our behalves. I really admire pilots. The airline was Cathay Pacific. One of the most memorable experiences of my life, and I've had some memories!


----------



## Pinky

@CarolfromTX
IMO, Cathay Pacific is awesome in every way.


----------



## oldman

CarolfromTX said:


> Well, I'm sure you're right. I got to do this experience a couple times -- once when taking off from the old Tai Tak Airport in Hong Kong on a rainy morning.  So amazing. Dave came along that time. He wasn't bold enough to ask, but he sure was glad when I asked on both our behalves. I really admire pilots. The airline was Cathay Pacific. One of the most memorable experiences of my life, and I've had some memories!


Funny you should mention Cathay Pacific. Back in the mid 70’s before, I started flying, I worked for DuPont as an Engineer. My region if coverage included the Far East. The first time that I went to Singapore, we had a change of planes in Hong Kong at the old airport. We were told by a flight attendant while preparing to land that a Cathay Pacific 747 had overshot the runway the day before and ended in the drink. If you remember correctly, that airport’s runways were actually surrounded by water.

I remember when were landing in HK, we came in over the city between two buildings and the pilot had to actually tilt (roll) the plane on its side by maybe 5-10 degrees to get the plane between the two buildings without striking a wing.

Cathay Pacific, as do many of the Far East airlines, includes a lot of frills with their flights. The top airline with frills in my opinion goes to Singapore Airlines. While at DuPont, when we flew, we flew first class. Singapore Air treated us like royalty.


----------



## oldman

CarolfromTX said:


> Well, I'm sure you're right. I got to do this experience a couple times -- once when taking off from the old Tai Tak Airport in Hong Kong on a rainy morning.  So amazing. Dave came along that time. He wasn't bold enough to ask, but he sure was glad when I asked on both our behalves. I really admire pilots. The airline was Cathay Pacific. One of the most memorable experiences of my life, and I've had some memories!


When you were in China, did you happen to visit any of the wet markets? How about Nathan Road for shopping? I bought my wife a beautiful opal and diamond ring in a small shop on Nathan Road for only $550.00. I was careful about buying it. I even had the diamonds tested for hardness. When I got home and before I gave the ring to my wife, I showed it to a jeweler for his opinion. He asked me how much did I pay. When I told him what I had paid, I also thought “Oh boy. I probably got screwed.” He told me that I got a really good deal and that he would probably charge about $900.00. It had 3 or 4 small diamonds that weighed 250 points total or a quarter carat.


----------



## oldman

Before the flight takes off, the Captain and F/O (First Officer) decide who’s is doing what. IOW, if the Captain flies the plane, then the F/O will watch the gauges and do the communications. Normally, about halfway through the flight, we will switch roles. It’s really up to the Captain, if there is a dispute. All pilots need ‘x’ amount of takeoffs and landings per month to keep their certifications.

After the plane takes off and we get up to about 1500 feet, I will turn on the Autopilot (A/P) and let the automation take over and do the climb and if I am flying the plane, I will keep an eye on everything else. I like to do what’s called step climb. If our cruising altitude is going to be 36,000 feet, I will climb to 12,000, back off on the thrust for a few minutes, then climb to 24,000 and do the same thing, then make my last climb to 36,000. Doing this puts less stress on the engines and makes it more comfortable for the passengers by allowing their bodies to adjust to the pressurization. Step climbing also saves fuel. Did you ever wonder what the outside temperature was at 36,000 ft.? How about -50 degrees or around there.


----------



## Gaer

I've always wanted to know that.  Thanks for explaining it.  What do you think will happen to the airline industry after this plague is over?  Will it normalize?


----------



## oldman

Gaer said:


> I've always wanted to know that.  Thanks for explaining it.  What do you think will happen to the airline industry after this plague is over?  Will it normalize?


Oh, jeez. Good question. I would be surprised if we see a sudden surge in passengers. Many will probably give it a few weeks to see if anyone is getting sick. If after that time no one has been infected, then hopefully, we may get back on track.

This is truly a shame. The airlines were doing really well and now this. Pilots and flight attendants are being furloughed, planes are sitting and in some instances, airports are seeing 95% less passengers. I have heard from pilots telling me that they have flown trips across country with as few as 10 people onboard.


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## Gaer

Just watched "Fate is the Hunter" Glenn Ford and Rod Taylor. (1964 before your time)  Put into perspective the seriousness of a pilot's responsibilities!  Wow!


----------



## oldman

Gaer said:


> Just watched "Fate is the Hunter" Glenn Ford and Rod Taylor. (1964 before your time)  Put into perspective the seriousness of a pilot's responsibilities!  Wow!


I have heard others talk about this movie, but I have never watched it. I just read the synopsis and I think it would make could watching.

I think everyone remembers Sulley Sullenberger's "Miracle on the Hudson" feat that he pulled off landing his Airbus A320 on the river. Well, did you know that the NTSB tried to blame the accident on Sulley?

During the hearings in front of the NTSB and the FAA, they tried to say that he had one engine running at the time of the accident and he could have made it back to LaGuardia or over to Teterboro, NJ and landed safely. This meant that the accident was caused by pilot error and his career would have been over and he would not have been the hero everyone thought he was.


----------



## oldman

The Miracle on the Hudson accident. After the accident, the NTSB did their job by investigating the accident. They determined that the right engine was still running and the Airbus A320 is very capable of still flying with only one engine. On every passenger plane there is a system called "ACARS," which stands for "Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System." This system automatically sends and receives messages on the condition of the plane back to United's central maintenance department and also receives messages on ground issues, such as landing systems and other technical items. (This is really hard to explain to someone that has no knowledge of aviation.) But, anyway, ACARS had reported that Sully had one engine running, which he later proved was a mistake by the reporting system.

Next, the NTSB also stated that even if both engines had gone out, he should have had enough power left to make the landing in Teterboro. The NTSB proved this by doing it over and over in the simulators. Sully stated that he didn't disagree with their finding, except that the pilot in the sims knew what was about to happen and therefore; was prepared and had a mental plan of what he was going to do. Whereas; Sulley had to think about his decision and formulate a plan all the while the plane was slowing down and losing altitude. He thought his only chance was to land on the Hudson. He made the right choice. Had he tried for Teterboro, he would have crashed landed short of the runway. They finally accepted his theories and agreed that he made the right decision. But, to hear Sully tell the story in real life and not in front of the cameras, (because he doesn't go into great details), this man was put through hell trying to prove his theories with why and what he did. The guy is definitely a hero in my book. He saved his passengers and like what we that are in the business often say, "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing."  

The full story is documented on Wikipedia and makes really good reading.


----------



## Gaer

I'll read it. I saw the movie and am SO IMPRESSED WITH HIM!  What a MAN!


----------



## oldman

Gaer said:


> I'll read it. I saw the movie and am SO IMPRESSED WITH HIM!  What a MAN!


You know I saw the movie, not once, not twice, but three times. No, just kidding. Just once. Good movie and I liked the realism with the NTSB hearing.


----------



## Gaer

How many different types of aircraft have you flown?  Of all of them, which is your favorite?  WhY?  Did this come easy and naturally for you or was it something you struggled to plan and carry out?


----------



## oldman

Not counting the two different props that I flew at school, plus one jet, I have flown and have certifications for four different size Boeing planes. 
The 737, 747, 757 and 767. My favorite is the B-767, which is a two-aisle plane seating about 300 passengers. Because the 757 and 767 have almost identical avionics, I was able to alternate between the two planes. Most airlines, including United, restrict their pilots to flying only one size or model of aircraft. The more familiar a pilot is with that particular plane, the less likelihood of the pilot having issues. That doesn't mean that a pilot cannot switch aircraft during his career at any airline, he just has to prove himself by going through the training for the plane he wants to fly by training in simulators and then also flying a real plane on a real trip with a "check pilot" who goes along on the flight or flights, depending on how well he handles the new plane. Once he passes the tests involved, he receives a certification to fly that plane. 

The 767 is my favorite because it was the first plane that I had flown with all digital avionics. It was heavy, which gave us a better ride and I just felt very comfortable flying the plane. When I first started flying the 767 simulator, I thought maybe I had bit off more than I could chew, but the more I flew it, the more comfortable it became to me. It was a big jump from the 737 to the 767. I liked the ride, avionics and the fact that I could carry more passengers, but the number one reason was that I was able to fly longer trips, like Washington to LA or San Francisco non stop. A 5 1/2 hour flight was something that I had been longing for. Those short jumps, like two hours or less are made for pilots who enjoy flying several legs in one day. 

After I had flown the 757/767 for maybe two months, it was like sitting in my living room. It's not the plane that becomes troublesome, it's the environmental things like, extreme heat or extreme cold, heavy snow or rain, sleet or hail, high winds or circling winds. Things like that will cause a pilot concern and test their fortitude. If we get into some heavy weather and I would have to turn off the A/P (Auto Pilot) and hand-fly the aircraft, it becomes more challenging. During these times, it allows the pilot to use his skills as an aviator and his goal then becomes to get everyone on the ground safely. Safety is always priority one. 

Thanks for asking this question. I hope that anyone who may have read my answers has a better understanding of what pilots are expected to know during those times when a pilot cannot allow the A/P to do his flying for him. We also have to spend 'x' amount of hours a year in the simulator under different conditions. You can be flying along and all of a sudden the number one engine flames out. OMG, now what do I do? Or, maybe the rear cargo door flies off while at 37,000 feet. Another, OMG, what do I do? These are just a few of the programs that are put into the simulator. You're sitting there just flying along and *BAM!* Something goes wrong. The check pilot inside the simulator with you is carefully watching as you make the necessary adjustments or changes to get out of a bad situation. Hopefully, you're up to the challenge because you are being graded. 

"Come fly the friendly skies of United." (I love that slogan.) The new slogan is "It's time to fly." (Blah.)


----------



## Gaer

Wow!  I hope everyone on the forum reads what you just wrote!  You really have to test your mettle not only on the simulator but on every flight!  Anything could happen at any second!  All those lives at stake!  The way you write this makes us feel all the excitement.  You explain it all so well!  Thank you!  Pinky and i are at the edge of our seats! Please,we want to hear more!


----------



## Gaer

Question:  Well, two questions.  Is there quite a difference between flying in the daytime or flying at night?  I know it's on auto in the skies but I mean lifting and landing?
Also, I know this pertains to smaller planes, but you would know; On the airlines you fly, they have along ,long landing strip for safety but on the small planes, who have to land on carriers or (like in Sitka) have to land on a terribly short landing strip, how do they do it?  Is it dangerous?  Do they have to pull an emergency brake or something? What are the chances they might nosedive?


----------



## fmdog44

Gaer said:


> What do you think will happen to the airline industry after the pandemic is over? Will people stop flying?


My 02 here is we got right back on planes after 911. But technology will have its place as we see people working from home now.


----------



## fmdog44

The scariest crash in my mind was the flight that flew inverted (upside down) for several minutes before crashing in to the sea. Imagine the passengers on that plane in the final minutes.


----------



## oldman

Are you studying to be a pilot? Second question first. Landing on a carrier takes a lot of skill. I have spoken with pilots that put their plane into the drink trying to land on a flattop. Pilots that land on a carrier have a marked area to set the plane down on. When they do it correctly, their plane’s tailhook should grab the arresting cable on the carrier that will help stop the plane. I can’t go much further with this explanation because I am not familiar with the mechanics of how the system works. I just know what pilots have told me when they flew in the Navy and Marines. 

As for landing at airports, some also have tailhooks. I really don’t have a lot of experience landing planes on short runways. I never had that experience, except with landing the small planes that I flew at flight school. 

Not really a lot of difference with taking off and landing between day and night. It’s really all about the wind direction and how much wind. We take off into the wind to gain lift. The flaps and slats have to be extended (not totally) prior to takeoff. Normally, we extend the flaps and slats on the way out to the runway. This gives the plane more lift. As we climb into a higher altitude, the air becomes lighter, so we can retract the flaps and slats just a bit, so to decrease drag. It’s really beautiful flying into large cities at night, if it’s clear. Landing is much the same, except as we descend, we also have to begin extending the flaps and slats to keep from stalling and to keep the plane aloft. As we continue to descend, we also have to continue to slow the plane and also continue to extend the flaps and slats. Often, our landing speed is about 170-160 mph. 
So, considering that we were flying at about 480-500 mph, we have to slow down considerably and it has to be done slowly or we could cause the plane to come apart. If you have ever taken notice, the last 2-3000 feet, the flaps are fully extended and angled down. This gives the plane more lift and slows the plane with drag at the same time. Upon landing, just a few moments before touchdown, we idle the accelerators and at touchdown, we pull back on the thrust reversers and engage the spoilers while applying the brakes.


----------



## Gaer

Have you ever stalled?
Oh, I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions.


----------



## Gardenlover

oldman said:


> Oh, jeez. Good question. I would be surprised if we see a sudden surge in passengers. Many will probably give it a few weeks to see if anyone is getting sick. If after that time no one has been infected, then hopefully, we may get back on track.
> 
> This is truly a shame. The airlines were doing really well and now this. Pilots and flight attendants are being furloughed, planes are sitting and in some instances, airports are seeing 95% less passengers. I have heard from pilots telling me that they have flown trips across country with as few as 10 people onboard.


How can they afford to fly with so few passengers? Surely it cost much more than that to fly.


----------



## Tommy

oldman said:


> As for landing at airports, some also have tailhooks.


Interesting!  I wasn't aware of this so I had to look it up.  As best as I can tell, arresting cables at commercial airports are limited to fields that have a military presence and are only used by military aircraft.  I wasn't able to find any reference to private or commercial aircraft equipped with tail hooks.  Fascinating concept though.  

Gaer, a F/A-18 Super Hornet hits a carrier deck at 150-175 mph and is brought to a full stop in less than two seconds!  Rather abrupt., eh?


----------



## oldman

Tommy said:


> Interesting!  I wasn't aware of this so I had to look it up.  As best as I can tell, arresting cables at commercial airports are limited to fields that have a military presence and are only used by military aircraft.  I wasn't able to find any reference to private or commercial aircraft equipped with tail hooks.  Fascinating concept though.
> 
> Gaer, a F/A-18 Super Hornet hits a carrier deck at 150-175 mph and is brought to a full stop in less than two seconds!  Rather abrupt., eh?


There are no passenger jets that have a tailhook that I am aware of and yes, I was referring to military jets only. I try to be as accurate as I can, but sometimes my fingers type faster than my mind works. 

I have been told by pilots that flew in the military that the G-force is terrific when flying and doing acrobatic stunts. I would think being stopped in less than two seconds while going 175 mph is also something else. I never saw in the cockpit of a fighter jet, but there must be a special seat for them to be able to keep their neck from snapping. Maybe something like that of a NASCAR car's seat. 



Gaer said:


> Have you ever stalled?
> Oh, I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions.


Don't be sorry. It's cool. I just have to think a lot sometimes before I answer. I wanted to also state another reason why pilots must descend at a slower rate than say a fighter jet. Even though we have a pressurized cabin, it's possible that if we descend to rapidly passengers and crew (without using oxygen) could become dazed and confused by falling victim to spacial disorientation. It puts the person into a state of confusion. It's like when we were kids and we would spin around and around several times and then stop suddenly, What happened? We ended up falling on the ground. This is an example of being disoriented.


----------



## oldman

I remember when we would fly out of Orange County (John Wayne) Airport in California. They had a noise abatement restriction in place to keep the noise of the planes from being too disturbing to the residents living in the area. Planes, due to their jet engines, are very loud when taking off. That's when we use maximum thrust or takeoff thrust. To combat not disturbing the local residents too bad, we would have to takeoff with about a  and then kind of do a steep climb. We always warned our passengers not to become alarmed when we takeoff and the reason why followed. We have to lift off from the runway carefully, at about 5-6 degrees, so as not to have a tail-strike. Once we have cleared the tail, then we can increase the climb out angle to about 20-25 degrees until we get well above the houses at about 10,000 feet and level off before making our next step climb. Not all pilots step climb like I did. Some prefer to keep going up. I preferred to step climb, so as not to over-stress the engines. 

Most, if not all airports, have noise abatement rules or restrictions. It's up to the ATC to tell the pilots what our climb-out will need to be for that area. Some are not as picky as others. Noise abatement procedures also change depending on what direction we are flying. If a runway is set to go north and south and there is a community at the end of the South runway, we will have to adjust accordingly, but if there is no community at the North end of the runway, then we can use our discretion on the climb-out. 

To answer your question, "Have you ever stalled?" Well, yes, a few times in the simulators, but never in the air, although I did come close a few times. When pilots are about to stall, they get a warning from a mechanical device called a "stick shaker." It's a small motor attached to the column of the control wheel or the Yoke. When a stall is about to occur, the stick shaker will engage by vibrating the column of the control wheel. It's unmistakable and it can scare the crap out of some pilots. It's another one of those, "OMG, what do I do?" 

Isn't this stuff boring to you?


----------



## oldman

oldman said:


> There are no passenger jets that have a tailhook that I am aware of and yes, I was referring to military jets only. I try to be as accurate as I can, but sometimes my fingers type faster than my mind works.
> 
> I have been told by pilots that flew in the military that the G-force is terrific when flying and doing acrobatic stunts. I would think being stopped in less than two seconds while going 175 mph is also something else. I never saw in the cockpit of a fighter jet, but there must be a special seat for them to be able to keep their neck from snapping. Maybe something like that of a NASCAR car's seat.
> 
> 
> Don't be sorry. It's cool. I just have to think a lot sometimes before I answer. I wanted to also state another reason why pilots must descend at a slower rate than say a fighter jet. Even though we have a pressurized cabin, it's possible that if we descend to rapidly passengers and crew (without using oxygen) could become dazed and confused by falling victim to *spacial disorientation*. It puts the person into a state of confusion. It's like when we were kids and we would spin around and around several times and then stop suddenly, What happened? We ended up falling on the ground. This is an example of being disoriented.


I wanted to mention that the NTSB stated in their report that it's their belief that JFK, Jr suffered from this event and may have been the main reason why he crashed into the ocean. (Spacial Disorientation) This episode of dysfunction has happened to many pilots who have also crashed.


----------



## Gaer

This stuff boring?  This "stuff" is fascinating!  Thank you for taking the time to explain all this!!!!


----------



## Pinky

Having many international flights under my belt, this stuff is interesting to me. I commend all pilots for their knowledge (and stamina), and for getting passengers to their destinations safely.


----------



## oldman

Have you ever wondered how runways got their numbers? OK, so let's cover this kind of quickly, if that's even possible. First of all, runways have been positioned for an airport according to the direction of the majority of their prevailing winds. For some airports, it may be as simple as having two runways; one runway running North and South and one runway running East and West. So, wee'll stick with this hypothetical airport to make it easy for us. Keep in mind that airplanes takeoff into the wind to gain lift. Air flowing over the wing, both in top and underneath gives the plane its lift needed to climb and not stall, thus the reason why flaps and slats are extended prior to takeoff. The more surface we give the air to go over and under, the more lift the plane will have. 

OK, so true north on a compass is what? Zero degrees or 0°. So "00" on a runway would be true north. So, if a runway is paved East to West and is tilted 10° to the right, that would make it Runway 10R and the opposite end that is pointing West would be numbered, 28L. Why? Because it has to be 180° difference. All runways use only two numbers. We drop the zeros, so the number 10 is actually 100, so therefore; 280 minus 100 equals 180. Easy, right? 

I am sure that if you check it out, you would find a better explanation on the internet. But, you get the idea.


----------



## oldman

Pinky said:


> Having many international flights under my belt, this stuff is interesting to me. I commend all pilots for their knowledge (and stamina), and for getting passengers to their destinations safely.


It can take awhile to learn so much information. The hardest thing for me was learning to fly in the many different types of weather patterns that we have in the U.S. I never had a desire to fly international, which many pilots bang heads to get a job in International. They talk about going to London, Rome, Athens, Paris and so on. On those flights, there are always two flight crews that switch in the middle of the trip, which is OK, but I think that I would feel competitive when flying. I have a very unique style. I call it flying by the book and break no rules. While one crew is fly, the other crew is sleeping. I don't think I could do that.

I think the guys that flight several legs in one day have the stamina. I mean, you start at 6:00 in the morning for your first flight and you'e parking your last flight at 10 or 11 at night, that's a long day of flying. Yeah, the pilots get a break here and there, but still, those cat naps can make a person tireder than he really is. I fly across country in say 6 hours and take a 2 hour break and then fly maybe another 2-3 hours and I'm done for the day. Sometimes, about half the time I get only the one flight and have the rest of the day to do whatever.


----------



## Pinky

How does it work on international flights that last 16 hours? Do the pilot and co-pilot take turns flying the plane, or do both have to be on constant alert? I always wondered if they both have to fly the full 16 hours without a rest. 

edit: Okay, you just answered my question!


----------



## oldman

Pinky said:


> How does it work on international flights that last 16 hours? Do the pilot and co-pilot take turns flying the plane, or do both have to be on constant alert? I always wondered if they both have to fly the full 16 hours without a rest.
> 
> edit: Okay, you just answered my question!


You probably have noticed, but maybe not, that the person who served you drinks or a meal, was a different person who served you before you landed. Two complete flight crews on most international routes.


----------



## Pinky

I think I spent half my time on international flights, sleeping .. or trying to sleep, with the blanket over my head. First time was roughest. Truly appreciated the wonderful service on every flight but one, when the workers were in strike mode.


----------



## oldman

Pinky said:


> I think I spent half my time on international flights, sleeping .. or trying to sleep, with the blanket over my head. First time was roughest. Truly appreciated the wonderful service on every flight but one, when the workers were in strike mode.


I found that most passengers traveling on long flights like, on coast to coast flights of about 5 1/2-6 hours in length, are using those little sponge earplugs to block the noise from the engines and the plane’s a/c or heating blowers. It seems noise and being warm are most important with sleeping on a plane. I also used to recommend taking a few ounces of Zzzquil along. Just keep it under 3 ounces to get through TSA.

When I travel overseas, I like taking the overnight (red eye) flight, and so I eat a light snack in the United Club and then have dinner onboard. After dinner, I grab my Zzzquil, put in my earplugs, extend the seat to 180 degrees and make use of my pillow and blanket. Ask the F/A to wake me 15 minutes before breakfast, go clean up, eat breakfast and get myself together. After we land, I go to the United Club and clean up better, maybe shave and change clothes and shoes for the day. I carry on a change of clothes and a United gives travelers a nice toiletry bag. 
I also like to call the hotel where I am staying and attempt to arrange for early check-in. I do not use the airlines free pj’s, but I will use the throw away slippers.

So, how do you travel when flying abroad?


----------



## Pinky

I've always flown for fairly extended stays, so I packed heavy. I always dressed casually and put on the socks that come with Qantas' freebies. It took me a couple of flights to learn to eat light on those long treks. Nothing like sitting for 16 hrs. with a heavy stomach. I make sure to get a pillow and blanket from the get-go, and an aisle seat, if possible. On my very first flight to Australia, the plane was less than 50% full, so most passengers got to stretch out on the 3 seats in the middle aisle. That was great. 

Wish I'd known about the Zzzquil back then. I'm a light sleeper and very sensitive to noise, air flow, etc.

By the way, of all the airports I've passed through, I dislike LAX the most. Confusing, not enough
signage, unhelpful employees. Oh, if you pull out a tenner, they help you.


----------



## oldman

Pinky said:


> How does it work on international flights that last 16 hours? Do the pilot and co-pilot take turns flying the plane, or do both have to be on constant alert? I always wondered if they both have to fly the full 16 hours without a rest.
> 
> edit: Okay, you just answered my question!


One thing I did forget to mention, on some airlines, three people are required to be in the cockpit with at least two all the time. No more than one pilot may leave the cockpit on an international flight. I remember back when Qantis Airlines was flying an overnight flight from Australia to Canada, I think. Anyway, they flew too near an active volcano and their engines sucked in the ash from the burning lava and rock. This caused all four of their Rolls Royce engines to choke and shut down.

The good part is that is that they were flying at a high altitude when this happened. Maybe around 38,000 feet, so they had plenty of time to work it out and try to recover. As the plane continued to descend, the pilots were becoming very nervous, as can be imagine. They kept trying to start the engines. I think when they got down to around 10,000 feet, the engines started firing up in order. The plane was a Boeing 747, so they had four engines, all up and running 

They were able to restart because the hardened lava that had collected on the fan blades inside the engines and in turn caused the shutdown, broke off from the blades allowing the engines to restart. Everyone landed safely.


----------



## oldman

oldman said:


> One thing I did forget to mention, on some airlines, three people are required to be in the cockpit with at least two all the time. No more than one pilot may leave the cockpit on an international flight. I remember back when Qantis Airlines was flying an overnight flight from Australia to Canada, I think. Anyway, they flew too near an active volcano and their engines sucked in the ash from the burning lava and rock. This caused all four of their Rolls Royce engines to choke and shut down.
> 
> The good part is that is that they were flying at a high altitude when this happened. Maybe around 38,000 feet, so they had plenty of time to work it out and try to recover. As the plane continued to descend, the pilots were becoming very nervous, as can be imagine. They kept trying to start the engines. I think when they got down to around 10,000 feet, the engines started firing up in order. The plane was a Boeing 747, so they had four engines, all up and running
> 
> They were able to restart because the hardened lava that had collected on the fan blades inside the engines and in turn caused the shutdown, broke off from the blades allowing the engines to restart. Everyone landed safely.


I got this wrong. I just had to research my story to find out if I had the facts correct. The plane was actually flown by British Airways and the flight number was 9. If you watch the encounter with the Volcano ash, it shows the plane when it became engulfed in* "St. Elmo's Fire."* Really cool to see.


----------



## Pinky

I just looked at this recreation of the British Airways flight 9 you mentioned ..
https://www.airspacemag.com/videos/category/new-label/was-this-plane-engulfed-in-st-elmos-fire/

What would the passengers have been seeing out their windows? I'm glad I've never experienced anything like that.


----------



## oldman

They certainly would not have seen the engines running because they had flamed out. I would think that they would have been able to observe some of St. Elmo’s fire. I would also be willing to make a small wager that it was very quiet on the plane as it slowly descended towards the ocean. I would also imagine that many prayers could have been heard.

It’s Important to keep in mind that this was a B-747, which is an extremely heavy plane, but it’s also very airworthy. There were many variables that needed to be considered in a short amount of time. I think the fact that smoke entered the cabin, that the oxygen masks deployed and the smell of the sulphur only heightened many fears.

You have to give a lot of credit to that flight crew for following their training and keeping their calm.


----------



## Pinky

Just saw this on FaceBook .. just another day in Canada.
https://www.freshdaily.ca/news/2020...5g0YEehZfXB4jVJTwPmcupzFV3w0H32F8ySv9yDa_rycs


----------



## Gaer

Pinky, That was so cool!


----------



## RadishRose

Wowzer!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250871895022600193


----------



## RadishRose

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250871895022600193


----------



## Pinky

It's awesome how the pilot merged with the flow of traffic. 
Thanks RR for posting the video!


----------



## oldman

Yeah, I heard about this. Small planes like the one that landed on this highway fare a lot better than a passenger jet would. The dynamics are completely different. The pilot was lucky he had a nice place to land and didn’t have to ditch it in a field or on water. I’m glad it ended well.


----------



## Gaer

I just found this picture of a plane landing on the ocean that I took up in Sitka.  (that was my husband, in the picture)  If a plane can land in the water,does that mean it cannot land on a runway?  or the opposite?  (except for Sully)  Why doesn't someone invent a way to do both by the flip of a switch by the pilot?  You know, a hydraulic lift of the floaters?)


----------



## oldman

Gaer said:


> I just found this picture of a plane landing on the ocean that I took up in Sitka.  (that was my husband, in the picture)  If a plane can land in the water,does that mean it cannot land on a runway?  or the opposite?  (except for Sully)  Why doesn't someone invent a way to do both by the flip of a switch by the pilot?  You know, a hydraulic lift of the floaters?)


I’m not sure what picture you are referring to, but seaplanes are capable of landing on water and land. As for inventing a plane that is capable of flipping a switch to gave the floaters drop down, well, like the engineer I once was and just thinking about that, I would say, yes, it could be done, but why? Are you thinking that if a passenger plane was flying over the ocean and had a mechanical problem it could land on water? 
No, it wouldn’t work because you would need very huge floats to maintain buoyancy for the weight of a passenger jet, especially a plane like a 747, 767, 777, 787 or an Airbus A380. Just way to heavy although if the pilot would make an incredibly great landing and keep the pain one piece, the plane may stay afloat for a short time.


----------



## Gaer

I didn't show up?


----------



## Gaer

But it COULD work on small planes though, right?  I'm not going to try to invent something like that.  It was just a thought. 
MY GOD!  You were an engineer too?  Is there ANYTHING YOU CAN'T DO?
You deserve all the jelly beans you can eat!


----------



## oldman

I started my career as an engineer for DuPont, but after a few years of sitting in a cubicle drawing circles and squares, I knew that I needed to do something more challenging. I always wanted to fly and I spoke with my dad and he told me to go for it. Most airlines at that time required all pilots to have a 4-year degree, so I was able to go straight to flight school.

Was the picture taken in Alaska? I flew there once. It was in June and I was surprised how warm it was.


----------



## oldman

An interesting thing came to mind after I posted in the “Vocabulary” category. Did you know that English is the International language in aviation? Every pilot and every ATC must speak English over the radio. No country is exempt from this practice.

Let me tell you something. Some foreign pilots really struggle with communicating with ATC. I shouldn’t laugh, but some conversations turn very funny. I know English is a difficult language to learn, so I sometimes feel bad for pilots from other countries when they are struggling to communicate, so I would sometimes try to help ATC understand pilots that are struggling.


----------



## oldman

Capt Lightning said:


> Oldman, maybe you could answer this....
> When I worked in Amsterdam, I stayed in the Marriott hotel and a lot of flight crews stayed there too.  I got to know some of the pilots - mainly in the bar.  One time when my wife was staying with me, we saw a fairly short pilot come in and Mrs. l wondered if the cockpit seats were adjustable.  We asked one of the pilots (who mainly flew 747 cargo flights) and instead of a simple answer, we got a whole story of the difficulty in flying different sizes of planes and how you had to set up things to get the proper perspective for landing.
> 
> Is this the case?  Do you adjust the seats to suit the pilots ?  Are there specified height ranges for pilots?


I apologize. Somehow I missed this post. Pilot seats are adjustable and here in America, and probably other countries, they are covered with sheep’s skin for comfortability and wear. Seats can be adjusted up, down, forward, aft and they also have a lumbar support. The armrests fold up, as well.

Here’s the issue with adjusting the pilot’s seat. Some of the newer aircraft, like the last 20 or so years, have what we call HUD, or Heads Up Display. If you aren’t familiar with this, HUD reflects some of the important instruments onto the windshield or their sun visor, so the pilots do not have to continually look down. Adjusting the seat to get the desired height, so a pilot can correctly read those instruments while using HUD can sometimes be tricky.

My Corvette also has HUD as do many of the foreign race cars. I hope this answers your question.


----------



## oldman

old medic said:


> Sorry Oldman... Kinda hi-jacked your thread... (no Pun intended)....
> Im about to turn 57, grew up around dirt track racing in NY, Did alot of help building tuning and some seat time. Got involved helping some folks attempting to take back the Production Motorcycle Record at Bonneville that Harley had held since the 50s... (We Did) But that opened a Pandora's Box, Our son wanted to race, and at 15 build a 250 Honda Rebel.... and finished 10th in points the 1st year.... Started getting other ride offers..
> He has set records over 200 MPH at 4 different tracks Eventually setting a record that was , At the time, 7th fastest sit on motorcycle in the world....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does that count as FLYING ?????


Not that it matters, but I live about 3 miles from the Harley plant. I think they build softails there.


----------



## oldman

fmdog44 said:


> The scariest crash in my mind was the flight that flew inverted (upside down) for several minutes before crashing in to the sea. Imagine the passengers on that plane in the final minutes.


I wanted to comment on this post and it slipped by me. Normally, when a pilot goes inverted, it’s all over. I was in a simulator at 38,000 feet when the master alarm came on and I had no idea what the problem was. We were dropping nose down and then, we rolled over. I thought for a few seconds and decided that it had to be with the horizontal stabilizer. It took me until we got to 9000 feet to right side the plane. The check pilot that was grading me said that I was only the second pilot to ever save the plane. I was really proud of myself, until I thought, if I had been at 28,000 feet, I would have bought the farm.


----------



## Gaer

oldman said:


> I started my career as an engineer for DuPont, but after a few years of sitting in a cubicle drawing circles and squares, I knew that I needed to do something more challenging. I always wanted to fly and I spoke with my dad and he told me to go for it. Most airlines at that time required all pilots to have a 4-year degree, so I was able to go straight to flight school.
> 
> Was the picture taken in Alaska? I flew there once. It was in June and I was surprised how warm it was.


Yes,The picture was in Sitka.  It's beautiful there when it isn't raining.  We would go out boating every day it didn't rain!  Anti-climatic after reading your last incredible post!


----------



## oldman

Flying inverted is almost like getting the 'kiss of death' You need a lot of altitude to give yourself a lot of time to figure things out and get the plane flying horizontally.


----------



## oldman

United has the right idea. I wonder if other airlines followed?

*April 24, 12:07 p.m.*
*Effective April 24, United Airlines will require all flight attendants to wear face coverings or masks while working.* The airline said *this will be in line with the CDC recommendation* concerning face coverings when social distancing is not possible. United said *there will be 20 masks on every domestic flight and 40 on every international flight*, according to CNN. Flight attendants are able to wear their own face masks or the ones that will be provided by United. The decision came in line with their partnership in the Association of Flight Attendants.


----------



## oldman

I have been hearing some really sad stories from some of my friends that are still flying. There was a flight from Phoenix to Boston and they had a person of Chinese origin onboard and he was coughing , but not a lot. However, it was enough to concern the flight attendants and so they told the Captain, who in turn advised air traffic control. Boston wanted to refuse the flight for landing, but under FAA rules they did not have the authority to do so, but the Governor thought he was able to do so.

The Governor spoke with his attorney general and he told the Governor that he did not have the authority to refuse the flight, so the plane landed. They took the passenger to a hospital nearest to the airport and had him tested, which he tested negative for the Coronavirus. The passenger was free to go his own way. 

This was not a United flight.


----------



## Gaer

Could the airline industry open again if "social distancing" were practiced?  I haven't heard, Is the government bailing them out? This industry CAN'T close down!  Any insights on this?


----------



## oldman

The government already bailed them out once and now they are looking for a second handout. I think Delta may go bankrupt. Social distancing on planes is already being practiced and it's easy for them since there planes are only about 10-25% of capacity, if that. 

From what I am hearing from some others still flying, both men and ladies is that they are still being paid, but money is tight. Two weeks ago, United was late with making payday, which is not a good sign. 

American is also in deep financial problems.

What it may come down to is government doing to the airlines what they did to GM. Force them into bankruptcy, which would terminate all of their working agreements with Boeing, Airbus and other airlines and stay (hold) off their other creditors and also to make their stock worthless. Then, allow them to restructure and come back under the same name, but different corporate management. Right now, it's the cheapest way out and if I was holding any airline stocks, I would consider dumping it, even at a loss. At least that way, the investor could take a capital loss against any gains on other more profitable investments.


----------



## oldman

Sitting in the office in Dallas and a Captain from AA (American Airlines) comes in really loud yelling to "Just fix the damn thing already." I looked at him and asked him "What's up?" He tells me,  "I left Seattle and about an hour into the flight the damn Autopilot (A/P) shuts off and will not re-engage. I tried changing the breaker and every other damn thing in the cockpit manual, but nothing worked." 

I asked him what plane was he flying. He tells me a Boeing 737. I asked him if he checked the Autothrottle (A/T) circuit breaker. He goes back out the door cussing up a storm. The dispatcher looked at me and said that I must have hit a nerve. I told him, "No, he forgot to check the A/T circuit breaker, which is a main problem on the 737 and will cause the A/P to shut down. Problem solved.


----------



## oldman

I saw a thread on this forum about masks. It brought to mind another flight that was entirely unexpected. We were flying from New York to Los Angeles. This was two months after 9-11. Upon my arrival to the airport, a note was handed to me, which read to be sure to speak with the United Dispatcher before boarding.

I went into his office and the first thing out of his mouth was, “Captain Loser, you’re going to love this.” I immediately thought, this isn’t going to be good. He tells me that eight (8) female Muslims will be on my flight and by their tradition, they are required to wear a mask (niqab) over their face and United has approved their request. However, they are afraid they will be taunted and abused by other passengers. He just thought that I should be made aware of this. 

I had to think how I could suppress the situation before anyone started anything. So, I decided to wait until everyone was boarded and then I walked back through the coach to where the women were seated in four (4) seats. I announced to the passengers, (I have a very loud voice), that these ladies are traveling with us to L.A. for the purpose of seeking freedom in the U.S. They are NOT terrorists. They just want what all of us have....freedom.

With that they applauded and there were no issues. I didn’t think any of the women understood what went on until the last lady leaving told me, “Thank you for your kindness. I love America already.” I thought to myself, “Lady, I hate to tell you, but you haven’t seen nothing yet, but you’re about to.”


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## Gaer

Wow!  Amazing!


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## bowmore

When I retired, I moved to a place a half mile from a small airport. I got my license in 1972, but had been inactive for a number of years, taking care of my late wife. I decided to get active again, and got a check ride to enable me to fly.
I found an organization called Angel Flight West, that arranges volunteer flights for patients who cannot travel any other way. I have made 110 flights, and the satisfaction I get from the patients is priceless.
I have always been interested in older military planes, and have actually flown a B-25, P-51 Mustang, and a Korean War MiG-15 Jet. I flew the P-51 to celebrate my 80th birthday.


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## Kayelle

bowmore, I'm in love with you. You are just my type!

I bet I dropped some jaws with that.    Bowmore and I married on the island of Santorini  Greece in 2007.


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## Pinky

Kayelle said:


> bowmore, I'm in love with you. You are just my type!
> 
> I bet I dropped some jaws with that.    Bowmore and I married on the island of Santorini  Greece in 2007.


How romantic!


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## oldman

Under the newest FAA regulations, pilots are limited to 10 continuous hours of flying time. If you are flying international, chances are that two complete flight crews will be onboard. One crew consisting of a Captain, F/O and however many F/A’s will be on duty while the second crew is either in a resting area or a lounging area away from the passengers. *NOTE: There are times when three pilots are in the cockpit. It’s up to the airline. 

The two crews will decide when the change of crews will happen. It is possible that if you sleep during the flight, when you awake, you will notice a different set of F/A’s serving you. (F/A = Flight Attendant) (F/O = First Officer) 

I have never piloted an International flight. When I flew from Chicago to Hawaii, that was not considered an International flight. Back then, it was a direct flight. Today, United uses a connecting flight in the winter.


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## Lewkat

Oldman, are you certain about Doris Day flying with you?  I knew her well and I know for a fact she refused to fly anywhere. Ever.  When Pres. George W. Bush wanted to send AF One to fetch her when she was awarded the Medal of Freedom, she flatly refused.  Doris had a few phobias and flying was number one on her list.  She'd take a train, ride in a car or bicycle anywhere, but never get on a plane.


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## oldman

Lewkat said:


> Oldman, are you certain about Doris Day flying with you?  I knew her well and I know for a fact she refused to fly anywhere. Ever.  When Pres. George W. Bush wanted to send AF One to fetch her when she was awarded the Medal of Freedom, she flatly refused.  Doris had a few phobias and flying was number one on her list.  She'd take a train, ride in a car or bicycle anywhere, but never get on a plane.



I thought I addressed this earlier, but it may not have posted. This was early in my career and I was at JFK when the Dispatcher gave me a choice between flying out to LAX in a commercial flight or flying a charter flight for the New York Mets out to LAX. I chose the commercial flight. I’m pretty sure that Tony Randall was also on that flight. I think he lived in NY at that time. The more I think about it, I’m thinking I may be confusing DD with Debbie Reynolds. But, I’m still thinking it was Doris Day. That was about 40 years ago. WOW! Where does time go?


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## oldman

I think I told this story before, so bear with me. It was in mid July and most of the U.S. was in an oven. We had left Denver and flying down to Dallas. Our arrival time was about 4:00 p.m. Right before we left Denver, the latest weather report was showing possible thunderstorms by the time we arrived in Dallas. Dallas is known for having bad t’storms in late afternoons in summer.

About 80 miles from DFW, we checked the weather again and it was showing t’storms were developing, so we checked with ATC, and they concurred. It was about 90 degrees, but not yet raining. We could see in the sky ahead that a huge thunderhead (Cumulonimbus Clouds) were forming. The F/O was flying and preparing for the landing. We alerted the F/A’s to close up shop and get everyone strapped in because it could be a rough landing.

About 25 miles from the airport, the ATC called and told us that rain was beginning to fall at the airport. I decided that I should talk to the passengers and tell them what we could be facing. It makes people nervous, but they need to know, in case they have to prepare for an emergency.

Now, 10 miles from the airport and they were reporting heavy rain with lightning. Winds were 15 mph, gusting to 25. Wind direction was from the north, which made it a crosswind. As we came down through the clouds, it was very rough.We were bounced side to side and up and down. I could hear people making sounds like, “Ohhh!!” The lightning was very active. We touched down on the runway and I warned the F/O not to hammer the brakes, just tap them. We also had the auto-brakes set. He did very good. The landing was straight and smooth. The passengers applauded, which is a release of their nerves. Finally, we got off the runway and taxied to the gate.


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## oldman

Maybe you will like this one.

I have never flown International flights. However, I did fly to the Far East on several occasions with my first job out of college when I worked for DuPont. On a trip to Singapore, we had a change of planes in Hong Kong when we had come from San Francisco. The plane that we were to connect with was coming from Seattle, but it never left there due to maintenance issues, so we were shuttled to the hotel at the airport. Beautiful view of the harbor. We had flown first class on DuPont’s dime. When I worked there, I had an expense account with no limit, except we had to have receipts for most everything.

First problem we ran into was that our luggage, (I was flying with another engineer), went on ahead on China Air. Like a dummy, I never packed a change of clothes in my carryon. The airline that we were flying (United), gave us $50.00 to buy essentials. When you exchange U.S. dollars to HK dollars, the exchange rate was what it is still today, which is $7.75, or $385 HK dollars. I had no idea what all I could buy with that kind of money. Nike sneakers for $7, Gucci watch for $65 and so on. So, after we were settled into our rooms, we went shopping. I asked the Concierge where was the best place to shop downtown. He told us to go to Nathan Road.

I asked the Concierge if the cabbies speak English. No, of course not, so he wrote down on a card in Chinese, the name of where the cabbie was to drop us and on the other side of the card, he wrote the address of the hotel. When we got downtown, it was busy, but we were ready to shop. I couldn’t believe the stuff I bought. The other engineer and myself went together and bought a nice size suitcase to carry it all. I think the case cost about $10.00.We had a really good time.

When we got back to the hotel, we had a few drinks, went back to our rooms and slept like a baby. Oh, when we were downtown, we were propositioned a few times. I guess they knew we were either Americans, English or Australians. That’s what the Concierge told us.

The next day, our plane to Singapore didn’t leave until 6:00 p.m., so we hung out at the hotel and spoke (bothered) a lot of business people. The one man was telling us that he was a diamond broker and was on his way back to France to cut a deal for $30 million in U.S. cash. We actually ended up having lunch with him.

When we finally arrived in Singapore, our female cab driver told us that we should have arrived a day earlier. We asked “Why?” She told us because they hung two Australians a day earlier and the public can watch. (No thanks.) We had to ask what they did and she told us drug trafficking. Wow. Kind of a surprise. The prison is not far from the airport and you can see it when outside the airport. The airport and the prison both have the same name, Changhi Prison and Changi Airport.

Hope you may have found this a bit entertaining and maybe educational. 

Last thing, we did get to watch a court ordered thrashing. They have this long reed that they slice the end into several pieces and depending on the crime, a judge can order that you receive any number of thrashings. On this day, a 22 year old received 4 thrashings for shoplifting.


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## JustBonee

You've had  a most interesting life  @oldman !


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## oldman

Bonnie said:


> You've had  a most interesting life  @oldman !



I made several trips over there. You wouldn’t believe some of the (what they call) food they eat over there. Deep fried chicken feet and monkey brains to name a few. They also have a fruit named Durian. It stinks so bad that they don’t allow it to be consumed on the plane. Look it up. And there was also a lizard that they eat. 

In Taipei, they eat some really more weird food. Not me. I went to Colonel Sanders or Burger King.


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## Pinky

oldman said:


> I made several trips over there. You wouldn’t believe some of the (what they call) food they eat over there. Deep fried chicken feet and monkey brains to name a few. They also have a fruit named Durian. It stinks so bad that they don’t allow it to be consumed on the plane. Look it up. And there was also a lizard that they eat.
> 
> In Taipei, they eat some really more weird food. Not me. I went to Colonel Sanders or Burger King.


All I found, was Continental-style fare, equal to any fine European restaurant. But then, I stuck to eating at the better hotels and didn't stray far afield.


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## oldman

Pilots live by the code to never become complacent. I had flown from the east coast to the west coast hundreds of times. On this flight, we were flying from Newark to San Francisco. 

As we were about 80 miles from the airport and beginning our final approach, we were given our vectors to the ILS, which means that we were given instructions on where to connect to the instrument landing system, which after we connect to the ILS, it will take the plane to the starting point of the runway. 

About 50 miles from the airport, we began our landing checklist. The non flying pilot performs the call outs. One pilot reads the checklist out loud and together, the pilots perform the checks and cross checks. If the Captain is flying the plane, the F/O performs the call outs. Like, he will say, “Landing lights on” and the pilot nearest to that switch will turn it on by flipping the switch. Next is, “Gear down” and again the F/O will pull the lever down and tell the Captain. “Gear down, three green.” This means that the landing gear is down and locked. And on and on it goes. 

Once the landing checklist has been completed, the pilots will again receive another weather report with wind speed and in what direction it was coming from. After that, we start looking for the airport, but on this day, it was immensely foggy. A huge fog bank had settled over the airport, so a visual approach wasn’t going to happen. We were going to have to do an instrument approach. I knew this airport very well, but didn’t want to appear overly confident. San Francisco has four runways and is a difficult airport for young pilots, mainly because of the winds. 

The ATC wanted us to do a straight in approach and landing, but I decided to fly out over the ocean and come back in. My F/O disagreed with my decision using CRM or “Crew Resource Management.” This allows any of the pilots to voice their concern that the Captain may make, but the Captain always has the last word. I overruled him this time. He asked why and I told him that the fog may be less dense from the other side and we will have the wind at our tail. 

Sure enough. It was exactly that. We landed safely and taxied to the gate, although going out over the ocean made us 15 minutes late. 

I hope that I didn’t confuse anyone. It’s difficult trying to explain aviation to someone that has never been exposed to it, but believe me,  there is a whole lot more that goes on in the cockpit to land the plane.


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## Chet

oldman said:


> He asked why and I told him that the fog may be less dense from the other side and we will have the wind at our tail.



Is wind at the tail desirable? Won't it affect lift?


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## oldman

*Great question.* When landing in SFO and flying out over the ocean, we sometimes do not have much of a choice, if we are coming back in to land. Normally, winds will flow west to east, so when we come back in from the ocean, the wind will generally be behind us giving us a tailwind, unless we fly back around the runway. In San Francisco, they also have a noise abatement in place during certain weather conditions. Out in South San Francisco, where the airport is located, the residents in that area do not appreciate aircraft flying low over their homes, so we are restricted (at times) to how low we can fly. I generally preferred coming in from the west and keep my altitude and drop my altitude a bit more slower, instead o maybe having to do a slam dunk. A slam dunk, in case you did not know, is when the pilot needs to or wishes to drop his altitude all in a matter of moments. 

When landing, we don't need a lot of lift. Flying into the wind provides lift on takeoff and thrust gives the plane the power to climb. This is why pilots will use full thrust for takeoffs Generally speaking, it is best to takeoff and land with wind at your nose, but on this particular day, I preferred to go out over the ocean in hopes that the fog would be less dense, so that I could see the runway from minimums. 

I found this definition of what minimums are from Google: Approaching minimums is the decision making altitude or minimum altitude               (Generally 100 feet above the minimum altitude ). Captain callout ‘approaching minimums’ in order to decide that they will land on the runway or they will go around, that depends on the Captain. In their final approach if they are going for landing then the other pilot callout “ continue” or else the other pilot callout “Go around” and then the landing was aborted....the Pilot pushes the thrust levers to its maximum position in order to get the maximum thrust generated by the engines and then the landing gear was retracted in order to "go around." 

Just putting in my two-cents. When the pilot does a "go around" and pushes the accelerators, or thrust levers all the way up, it will take a little time for the engines to respond and spool up to full power. This is why the sooner the pilot makes the decision to "go around" the more time he gives the engines to spool up. If the pilot decides too late to "go around" and shoves the accelerators all the way up, he was too late and the plane will continue to descend setting the pane down very fast and very hard. By doing that will normally that, the final outcome probably will not end well. 

Here is a short video showing a plane landing at night during dense fog and why I wrote above that it's a good idea to be able to see the runway before touchdown. Even though we use the ILS that directs the plane to the runway, I always felt more comfortable being able to see it. The ILS is short for "Instrument Landing System," which is a key component for landing anytime, but is ideal for bad weather situations. The ILS actually controls the plane through the Autopilot and will set the plane onto the runway, but I prefer to make sure, so I need to see the runway before touchdown. 

I apologize for the length of this post, but it's important to me to be as clear as I can when trying to explain flying procedures.


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## oldman

We were sitting at the gate in Boston preparing to fly to San Francisco. There was still about five minutes remaining until departure time. The Purser called the cockpit on the intercom and said everyone was accounted for and seated, so we were ready to go. I ordered her to close the main cabin door. Once that door is closed, it’s not to be opened until we arrive at our destination.

We finished our paperwork and notified the tower that we were ready for pushback from the gate. There was no immediate response, so we waited for a minute and that’s when the ATC told us that we were being purposely delayed and to standby. After another several minutes, the ATC informed us that we were going to be transporting organs to San Francisco, along with a medical chaperone. I had to tell the passengers why we were being delayed and that never makes anyone happy, no matter what the reason.

Luckily, we only had to wait another ten minutes, plus because we had to open the door, we had to redo our paperwork, which took another 15 minutes. Once underway, I informed the passengers the we would have them in San Francisco on time. Once at our destination, everyone had to remain seated until the precious cargo and chaperone had deplaned.

The nice thing about carrying transplant organs is that your plane gets priority for landing and an open gate. We were right on time.


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## Ruth n Jersey

@oldman I would hope people would be more tolerant of a delay because you were carrying transplant organs. I certainly would be.
I just read that planes carrying the vaccine for the virus  will get priority for landing also. 
I'm sure there will be some who will make a fuss.


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