# The merging of Thanksgiving and Christmas



## Ralphy1 (Nov 9, 2015)

It seems that the two have become one with the significance of either being lost for just eating, decorating, drinking and shopping.  As a devout hedonist it doesn't bother me, but maybe it does you...


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## SifuPhil (Nov 9, 2015)

Doesn't bother me as I'm a non-celebrant, but I can see how the concept of Thanksmas or Christgiving would bother some people.

Add in Halloween and you've got a trifecta.


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## IKE (Nov 9, 2015)

The two of us do a big traditional Thanksgiving dinner with turkey and all the trimming just because we like it and then eat leftovers for a few days afterwards, which I'm good with.

We're also non-celebrants when it comes to Xmas.


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 9, 2015)

Seems like the blurring ends with a burp for some...


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## Bobw235 (Nov 9, 2015)

It has always been a strange time of year in our household, especially with no family nearby.  The past few years my wife and I have traveled to Stowe, VT to our favorite inn to spend Thanksgiving and make the holiday more special, while avoiding a day of cooking and dishes.  This year, with our having to watch expenses, we'll probably stay home and I'll cook us a nice meal.  My wife mentioned perhaps volunteering somewhere on Thanksgiving.

The Christmas holiday is a bit melancholy for me.  My wife and I are of different faiths (she is Jewish, I am Protestant), so except for when my son was a young boy living at home, Christmas has mostly been a non-event in my household.  In the early days of our marriage, we exchanged gifts and it was fun to surprise her with something new that I'd picked out, but as we aged and had the means to acquire things throughout the year, the gift giving tapered off.  For many years now, Christmas has been a day to have a nice meal, maybe see an afternoon movie and talk to family who are scattered across the country.  The grandkids are over in England, so last year we got to see them open presents via computer at 4:00 in the morning.  Hoping that in the years ahead, we'll get to celebrate Christmas over there, to experience their joy in opening presents and to be with our son.


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## oldman (Nov 9, 2015)

I would prefer to follow your style Bob. I have seasonal depression over the holidays and it has started early this year. Ever since my parents passed away, the holidays mean very little, other than celebrating the birth of Christ. Now, we are surrounded by family and gifts and a big meal and so on. All the while, I suffer in silence and there is no cure for it. I feel best when left alone and with my thoughts of when my Mom and Dad where alive and in the picture. Those were holidays worth repeating. We had such glorious holidays that just can't be repeated because of today's lifestyles.

When I was still working, I always volunteered or bid on flights to fly, instead of being home. It really took my mind off of things. My wife would complain about it, but I would tell her it's my job and I have to do my duty.


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## Bobw235 (Nov 9, 2015)

oldman said:


> I have seasonal depression over the holidays and it has started early this year.



I can relate.  I know that feeling well, especially on Christmas day.  Between the pressures of my job at this time of year (our firm closes it's books on 12/31) and the long hours it requires and the lack of any real meaning for the holiday, it does tend to get me down.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 9, 2015)

We (small family) eat out for Thanksgiving and Christmas is usually at my house or my sons's, the older I get, the less I do for the holidays.


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## jujube (Nov 9, 2015)

My family is now scattered all over the globe and, especially at the holidays, I long greatly for the old days when we all got together for a 2-3 day gobble/grab/gurgle fest.   I tend to get a little depressed at Christmas these days.  I am determined to put a tree up this year and get "into" the holidays.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 9, 2015)

JJ, how much of that is nostalgia and how much just societal pressure to "get into it"?

I've figured out, for me, it was about 90% nostalgia - the rest being wanting to fit-in with (seemingly) everyone else. 

Once I got rid of the nostalgia the rest was easy.


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## AprilT (Nov 9, 2015)

jujube said:


> My family is now scattered all over the globe and, especially at the holidays, I long greatly for the old days when we all got together for a 2-3 day gobble/grab/gurgle fest.   I tend to get a little depressed at Christmas these days.  I am determined to put a tree up this year and get "into" the holidays.



^This mostly, but more like members not alive who I celebrated it with.  Not just nostalgic, but a true comfortable memory of wonderful times spent together and not ever being able to share those moments with those family members when the time rolls around each year.  Like some others said, it brings on moments of melancholy and depression, not the entire season, I won't allow that, just moments here and there.   There are times I get through it unscathed and just do what I need to do to not let it get under my skin and focus on the positives, but, there are still moments it just reminds me of not sitting around having great times these times of year when family has time off from work and everyone is able to spend quality time with the kids and enjoy each others company as we did.  Parting was always sad for us, we loved those gatherings.  Syrupy sweep it was and nothing about exchange of gifts, just a lot of love, fun and great company.


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## AZ Jim (Nov 9, 2015)

The holidays are here too early, stay too long, are too commercial and are just a pain in general.


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## AprilT (Nov 9, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> The holidays are here too early, stay too long, are too commercial and are just a pain in general.



These days there is a lot of truth to this and it's sad.


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## Don M. (Nov 9, 2015)

The Holidays have largely become the Year End shopping season for the retailers...and not much else.  Around here, the "shopping" season has already started with Black Friday events starting the day after Halloween.  

For years, we had all the kids/grandkids at our place for Thanksgiving and Christmas, but now its their turn.  Thanksgiving is at the oldest daughters place, and Christmas is the younger daughters turn to host.  Then, we usually schedule a free night or two at the casino afterwards, and have our own celebration on the slots, etc.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 9, 2015)

I think most of our fond memories are of our childhood Christmases.  When we became adults and most of all parents.. WE became the ones responsible for making everyone else's Christmas memorable and wonderful.   OUR Christmas kinda got lost in the shuffle.   NOW.. That I am a grandparent.. I am still responsible for buying exactly the RIGHT present that the GK's little hearts desire.   Mind you...  I see my GKs about 4 times a year and  I really don't know them that well.. particularly what their "hearts desires" are.. SO I rely on my son... who procrastinates and let's me know at the very last minute..  SOOOOO...  it gets stressful.

This year, He can order the presents on Amazon and have them shipped to my house...  I will wrap them and give him a check.    If he doesn't do that.. the kids get an envelope with money and THEY can buy what their little hearts desire..   I'm too old for this..    I would much rather have a quite dinner with my hubby at a fabulous restaurant..  See the holiday decorations in Downtown Chicago.. and go home...  BUT... my son wants the kids over at Granny's... and that's ok..  We do have some nice traditions we are keeping up... so the kids will have fond memories of Christmas at my house... and then THEY can start being responsible adults.. and get depressed..  lol!!


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## Falcon (Nov 9, 2015)

I guess Christmas has lost its real reason for celebration.

Now it's all about buying gifts, commercialism, buying gifts for eachother.

The atheists couldn't care less.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 9, 2015)

Falcon said:


> I guess Christmas has lost its real reason for celebration.
> 
> Now it's all about buying gifts, commercialism, buying gifts for eachother.
> 
> The atheists couldn't care less.



Sadly... Christmas seems to have become an obligation..  That's not how it should be.. but it feels that way to me.


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## Cookie (Nov 9, 2015)

We celebrate Thanksgiving in early October, and I have never understood why the U.S. is so late, back to back with Xmas.  

I don't think xmas is about commercialism at all, people will agree its about family and friends.  Since the religious implications of xmas are changing, I don't see anything wrong with it being secular to those who aren't religious or Christian.  Also don't see it as any more commercial than any other holiday.  That's life in the western capitalist world, so we should embrace it, not complain, unless of course we want to become Reds and do without altogether and live in the tundra.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 9, 2015)

Christmas is indeed the most commercial holiday according to these national retail association charts ...


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## BobF (Nov 9, 2015)

And what makes up 'Winter Holidays'?    I see Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, and ?     Not sure about that chart.   Going back to school is not a holiday or celebration, it is part of life and growing up.


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## Cookie (Nov 9, 2015)

I can see that spending goes up more during the winter holidays.  Nevertheless, spending and shopping is promoted by the retailers during all the holidays.  That is the way of our culture.  Like it or not, take it or leave it, the capitalist world goes round on free enterprise.  There are way more people now, more shoppers with more money than in the 40s and 50s when people were still recovering after the war.  

Maybe when people stop needing so many materialistic goods to give their life meaning, things will change, but I don't see that happening any time soon.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 9, 2015)

Valentine's day is a winter holiday.... being that it is in February..  It's also a pretty mandatory one...


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## Cookie (Nov 9, 2015)

Agree, by the dead of February the need for heart shaped chocolates is dire, as is nice wine and dinner at a good restaurant. Its all about survival.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 9, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Agree, by the dead of February the need for heart shaped chocolates is dire, as is nice wine and dinner at a good restaurant. Its all about survival.



So why do we need a holiday to do it? Why not do it every day, or at least on those days when Seasonal Affective Disorder is at its worst?

Why only tell our mothers we love them once a year, with a cheap store-bought card containing canned verse? Why devour turkey until we explode only one day of the year? Why should we dress like vampires and pirates only on a single day in October? 

Cookie, I agree wholeheartedly with your earlier comment about materialism - I'm doing my best to fight it over in this corner.


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## Cookie (Nov 9, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> So why do we need a holiday to do it? Why not do it every day, or at least on those days when Seasonal Affective Disorder is at its worst?



Agree, chocolate is nice to have all winter (and year round).  Or at least good cocoa.  

Every culture has special holidays and celebrations.  And we love a party with nice food, music and wine to share with our families and friends.  It's always good to have something to celebrate.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 9, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Agree, chocolate is nice to have all winter (and year round).  Or at least good cocoa.



I'm not a big chocolate fan but I understand the attraction. Substitute some good halvah or marzipan and I'm there. 



> Every culture has special holidays and celebrations.  And we love a party with nice food, music and wine to share with our families and friends.  It's always good to have something to celebrate.



Since I put myself outside the normal societal celebrations I decided to invent my own - Philstivus. It contains several small and large celebrations each month, for a plethora of occasions, but since I've become a sick old man the celebrations have pretty much faded away.


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## Shalimar (Nov 9, 2015)

Marzipan is among my most favourite foods. I prefer it to chocolate. It goes on top of dark fruitcake which is my favourite food!


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## Cookie (Nov 9, 2015)

That sounds like a good idea  --- we aren't very elaborate - even a butter tart and a cup of tea with a friend on a Sunday afternoon is nice.

Love marzipan on dark fruitcake too.


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## chic (Nov 10, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Doesn't bother me as I'm a non-celebrant, but I can see how the concept of Thanksmas or Christgiving would bother some people.
> 
> Add in Halloween and you've got a trifecta.



Where I live it is a trifecta. Santa, Rudoplh, the elves, et al butt their noses into pumpkin day and Xmas ads and movies start on Oct. 31. 
I think it's because Xmas has become a commercial holiday for buying cards, gifts, special foods, etc. and has nothing to do anymore with goodness, kindness and the birth of Jesus.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 10, 2015)

Fruitcake - I'd all but forgotten fruitcake!

I was always the guy that would gladly accept the leftover pieces of fruitcake, and sometimes entire one, at the end of the day to take home. 

Then I'd sit cross-legged on the floor in front of the TV and devour them - NOM, NOM, NOM!!!

Geeze, now I have to go out on a fruitcake-and-marzipan run ...


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## SifuPhil (Nov 10, 2015)

chic said:


> Where I live it is a trifecta. Santa, Rudoplh, the elves, et al butt their noses into pumpkin day and Xmas ads and movies start on Oct. 31.
> I think it's because Xmas has become a commercial holiday for buying cards, gifts, special foods, etc. and has nothing to do anymore with goodness, kindness and the birth of Jesus.



That's sad ... so sad. 

I remember Halloween being all we thought about from around the beginning of September. After it was over, and only then, did we even start to consider Thanksgiving, and even then it didn't require as much lead-time. 

Christmas? You never saw any Xmas stuff on sale or on TV until AFTER T-giving - Black Friday ensured that. Even though I wasn't the religious sort I would get all puffy-eyed when I started hearing the classic Xmas songs. 

Now, as you said, it's turning into ThanksChrisWeen. 

P.S. I just Googled "ThanksChrisWeen" after I wrote it - 4 web results and 7 unrelated images. Maybe I should register that name?


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## IKE (Nov 10, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Fruitcake - I'd all but forgotten fruitcake!
> 
> I was always the guy that would gladly accept the leftover pieces of fruitcake, and sometimes entire one, at the end of the day to take home.
> 
> ...



Fruitcake gets a bad rap for some reason but I've always liked it........even when I worked overseas and was in a place where receiving mail was possible one always found it's way to me around Xmas time.


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## Shalimar (Nov 10, 2015)

Philly, I have two year old dark fruitcake (I made it myself,) it is covered with marzipan and royal icing. I am eating a huge wedge of it right now! Nanananana. I will have homemade Xmas pudding for Xmas this year also.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 10, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Philly, I have two year old dark fruitcake (I made it myself,) it is covered with marzipan and royal icing. I am eating a huge wedge of it right now! Nanananana. I will have homemade Xmas pudding for Xmas this year also.



You, m'Lady, are a tart of the first order. Stand and deliver! irate:

*falls to the floor dramatically, weeping*


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## Shalimar (Nov 10, 2015)

Tart eh?? I also have jars and jars of homemade mincemeat---containing no meat but containing most of the same ingredients as  my pudding and Xmas cake. In December I shall  make mince tarts  in large muffin pans, using my trademark all butter pastry......take that, you fiendish highwayman! Canadianim never give up their Xmas baking!!!!!  Weep on you cad!!!


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 10, 2015)

Hmm, whoever would have thunk that our resident mermaid could be so cruel...


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## SifuPhil (Nov 10, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Tart eh?? I also have jars and jars of homemade mincemeat---containing no meat but containing most of the same ingredients as  my pudding and Xmas cake. In December I shall  make mince tarts  in large muffin pans, using my trademark all butter pastry......take that, you fiendish highwayman! Canadianim never give up their Xmas baking!!!!!  Weep on you cad!!!



Zounds, m'Lady - thy cruelty is matched only by thy wickedness!

Actually I've never understood mince - what is it? Animal? Vegetable? Mincemeat - so there's some kind of animal in it? 

Thinking back, I can say that never in my life have I had mince of any sort. 

Highwayman? HIGHWAYMAN?!? The lowest form of humanity! I am, I shall have you know, a _privateer_, fully licensed and approved by good King George himself!!!


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## Shalimar (Nov 10, 2015)

I believe originally mincemeat did contain meat Phil, now it depends on the recipe. Personally I don't see the point. I prefer mine which tastes like fruitcake. Do you like shortbread? I think the word mince means ground up.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 10, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I believe originally mincemeat did contain meat Phil, now it depends on the recipe. Personally I don't see the point. I prefer mine which tastes like fruitcake.



So it's a ... a base ingredient of some sort, that can be flavored?



> Do you like shortbread?



Once again I must confess my ignorance of normal life - I've never had shortbread either. I thought shortbread was pig kidneys ... 



> I think the word mince means ground up.



Ah, okay. So when I make mashed potatoes I could call them mincepotatoes?


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## Shalimar (Nov 10, 2015)

Ok. Mincemeat which is a dessert, contains a mixture of fruit, spices, butter, and either fruit juice or booze. I can it in jars. Shortbread is a rich desert cookie or bar, made of primarily flour, butter, sugar. Sooo good. About the potatoes I suppose you could call them minced if you wish. Lol.


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## mitchezz (Nov 10, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Philly, I have two year old dark fruitcake (I made it myself,) it is covered with marzipan and royal icing. I am eating a huge wedge of it right now! Nanananana. I will have homemade Xmas pudding for Xmas this year also.



Shal, my great grandfather was a chef and our family has been using his boiled fruit cake recipe since around 1880. Passed down from generation to generation.


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## Shalimar (Nov 10, 2015)

Wow Mitchezz. I have never heard of boiled fruitcake. It sounds fabulous!


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## QuickSilver (Nov 10, 2015)

I used to love the part of Christmas Carol when Bob Cratchit  sampled his wife's Christmas pudding...   A triumph, my dear, another triumph!


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## Ameriscot (Nov 10, 2015)

I have very fond memories of family Thanksgivings and xmas as a child and young adult.  Obviously, being in the UK there is no Thanksgiving celebration here. We flew to Michigan to be with family every xmas since I moved here from 2000 to 2011, but no longer do so.  Instead we find summer visits much more fun, although I do miss xmas day itself.  But I don't miss the snow, slush and cold. 

I always feel nostalgic on Thanksgiving Day, but it wouldn't help to go back to be with family as what I miss is my parents, grandparents, great aunts and uncles...everyone who is gone.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 10, 2015)

That's the problem with getting older.. Everyone that made the holidays memorable is gone..  Same with me..  It is a bitter sweet time of the year.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 10, 2015)

I love fruitcake....my sister-in-laws makes a lemon nut cake every Christmas that is to die for....

http://www.astray.com/recipes/?show=Lemon nut cake


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## Capt Lightning (Nov 10, 2015)

I recon we should celebrate the Spring and Autumn Equinox  and the Summer and Winter Solstice.  Four equally spaced NATURAL events and probably the origins of many religious festivals.  (We do tend to celebrate the winter solstice)


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 10, 2015)

But what about Santa?


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## Ameriscot (Nov 10, 2015)

I HATE fruitcake!!!!!!!!!!  layful:


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## Ralphy1 (Nov 10, 2015)

And what about Rudoph?


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## Cookie (Nov 10, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I HATE fruitcake!!!!!!!!!!  layful:




Ok, ok, relax, take a deep breath, breathe in and out slowly.  Were you once attacked with a piece of fruitcake?  You are safe now.  There will be no more talk of fruitcake.


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## Cookie (Nov 10, 2015)

Capt Lightning said:


> I recon we should celebrate the Spring and Autumn Equinox  and the Summer and Winter Solstice.  Four equally spaced NATURAL events and probably the origins of many religious festivals.  (We do tend to celebrate the winter solstice)



Oh fer the love of Mike, there is nothing wrong with Christmas and there never has been.  We can celebrate solstices along with Christmas.  Why all the humbug?


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## Ameriscot (Nov 10, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Ok, ok, relax, take a deep breath, breathe in and out slowly.  Were you once attacked with a piece of fruitcake?  You are safe now.  There will be no more talk of fruitcake.



My granny made a fruitcake that many people raved about but I do not like it one bit!  Bleh!!  Ok, I'll calm down now.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 10, 2015)

my grandma made a Christmas cookie called Pfeffernusse..   literally translated pepper nut cookies.  She made them in the fall and they were hard as a rock.. you could kill someone with a well placed hit..   Then.. she would put them in a sealed tin container with an apple closer to Christmas to soften them up again..


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## Cookie (Nov 10, 2015)

It's almost time, it's almost time to make cookies and eat them!   ha ha


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## Capt Lightning (Nov 10, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Oh fer the love of Mike, there is nothing wrong with Christmas and there never has been.  We can celebrate solstices along with Christmas.  Why all the humbug?



Christmas is little more than a  hijack of the pagan festivals at the year end and Easter can be seen as synonymous with spring and  the Vernal equinox.  People are free to celebrate any day they want, but the  solstices and equinoxes cut across nationalities and religions.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 10, 2015)

My brother is an atheist and is happy to celebrate the holiday.  For him it means our huge family getting together, gifts (especially to kids), a festive meal.


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## BobF (Nov 10, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> my grandma made a Christmas cookie called Pfeffernusse..   literally translated pepper nut cookies.  She made them in the fall and they were hard as a rock.. you could kill someone with a well placed hit..   Then.. she would put them in a sealed tin container with an apple closer to Christmas to soften them up again..



I liked the Pfeffernusse.    We always seemed to have some each Christmas season.   There was another cookie or cake thing too, just can't think of the name right now.

It was not Fruit cake as I never liked that at all.


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## Shalimar (Nov 10, 2015)

Chocolate cherry cream cheese brownies. I received marriage proposals for those. Eek! Also, lemon bars, decorated sugar cookies,  mince tarts, brandy snaps, rum and brandy balls, butter tarts, toffee bars, candy cane squares, gingerbread houses, shortbread, and on and on and on!


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## QuickSilver (Nov 10, 2015)

ahhhh  lemon bars..  my absolute favorite....  not too sweet.. with just the right amount of tartness.


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## Shalimar (Nov 10, 2015)

QS, I put a tart lemon icing on mine. This year I am attempting lime bars. No recipe, hope it works out.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 10, 2015)

Do you use the pie crust or graham cracker bottom?  I like the crust that almost reminds me of shortbread.. melt in your mouth.. ...mmmmmmm


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## Shalimar (Nov 10, 2015)

I use the crust bottom QS. The only things I make with graham crackers are Nanaimo Bars, and cheesecake.


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## RadishRose (Nov 10, 2015)

pepperkakers!


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## AprilT (Nov 10, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> My brother is an atheist and is happy to celebrate the holiday.  For him it means our huge family getting together, gifts (especially to kids), a festive meal.


 

I'm not religious and one of my sisters was a Jehovah's witness, same as your brother it was the sentiment of cheer and good feelings shared and being with family, definitely not about the material aspects at all but at the same time some shared their religious views or said grace with no judgement, we just enjoyed each other.  It was a nice time of year when people where simpatico at least in a moment, we can't manage to get the world to be harmonious much of the year, but, it was good to see families sharing quality time any opportunity of which provided this.

Would it be nice if people shared this spirit of kindness toward each other year round, of course, but, seems that isn't going to happen, so when people are able to put everything aside for a time to spend time with their loved ones, I see it as a plus.  At least that's how I saw it before the merging and one upmanship shop till you drop mob crash herds.


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