# Cosby Trial Deadlocked



## Iodine (Jun 17, 2017)

Cosby trial deadlocked.  What think ye?

My husband thinks prison is too good for him.  I'm just sitting back and seeing what happens next.


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 17, 2017)

If a _randy_ old fool handed me three blue pills I would say no thanks and move along but that's just me.


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## RadishRose (Jun 17, 2017)

I haven't followed the trial so I don't know anything about the evidence, but I heard someone on TV read a statement said to be written by that supermodel Janice Dickinson- - in fact I just found the video of her talking about it:

http://www.etonline.com/news/154076_janice_dickinson_details_alleged_bill_cosby_sexual_assault/    The pill she mentioned was supposedly for menstruation cramps.

Reading further down in the article I don't believe her. However, the others may well be telling the truth.


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## Butterfly (Jun 17, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> If a _randy_ old fool handed me three blue pills I would say no thanks and move along but that's just me.



Yeah -- whatever happened to common sense, anyway??


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## tnthomas (Jun 17, 2017)

If he drugged her(or, if he didn't drug her) and had _non-consenual_ sex, then he raped her.    Prison time.


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## WhatInThe (Jun 17, 2017)

Hung jury, mistrial declared. DA to prosecute again.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...strial-in-bill-cosby-******-assault-case.html

Saw one report that jurors thought both victim and Cosby were 'unbelievable' or lying at times.


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## JaniceM (Jun 17, 2017)

I noticed other threads on this topic, refrained from commenting, and hope commenting here doesn't result in getting figuratively jumped & spit on, but am I the only person who's considered the possibility that this guy might be innocent?  
If one person had accused him, or maybe even two people, but all of those women accusing him?  I'm tempted to believe they look at a rich-and-famous superstar in terms of how they might benefit from a guilty verdict.  
Obviously if he's guilty he should pay the consequences, but the more women that jumped on the bandwagon the less guilty he looks.


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 17, 2017)

IMO Bill Cosby is guilty of many things.  

I also believe that in most, if not all, cases the women involved were hoping an association with Bill Cosby would result in personal gain for them.  

IMO a woman that is trying to further her career by hanging out with a married man, popping pills that were not prescribed for her and having a few glasses of wine are women making bad choices, a series of bad choices won't produce a good result.

The whole thing is very sad, maybe rehashing it over and over will help a few people make better choices.


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## WhatInThe (Jun 17, 2017)

I think many of these women were trying to use Cosby to further their careers, help with a deal etc. But sex without consent is rape. Then again with no physical evidence it's he said-she said in many of those cases let alone this one.

The victim in this case continued to interact with Cosby after the incident. 

http://www.nydailynews.com/newswire...ite-accuser-inconsistencies-article-1.3225174

One must wonder why and it wouldn't be a leap to think she was seeking a favor. Nothing wrong with that but it was probably one of the factors that hung this jury. 

I also heard there were 3 charges and the jury couldn't even come to consensus on just one.


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## Robusta (Jun 17, 2017)

In my mind any woman who goes into a room with a celebrity,has drinks is either an idiot or is looking for sex. Groupies abound and are a way of life for 
celebrities.  Sorry ladies,but a man on the road providing entertainment for millions when inviting a strange girl to his room or tour bus for drinks, is not interested in your brilliant mind or looking for sparkling conversation. If you think otherwise you are too naïve to leave your home. If they had come out and registered a complaint with in hours or even a day later fine.  Years after the fact they deserve no consideration.


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## Raven (Jun 17, 2017)

Many of these women were very young and likely did not come forward because they were afraid of not being believed.
Celebrity status played a part in this case in my opinion.  
Victims are often victimized further by the justice system and that makes women very hesitant to report cases of assault and rape.

I did not see any family members with him as he walked out of court, and he did not seem nearly as frail as when the trial began and he shuffled in looking like he might faint at any moment.  It looked like good acting to me.
I believe the women and think he's guilty and should get jail time.


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## Shalimar (Jun 17, 2017)

Raven said:


> Many of these women were very young and likely did not come forward because they were afraid of not being believed.
> Celebrity status played a part in this case in my opinion.
> Victims are often victimized further by the justice system and that makes women very hesitant to report cases of assault and rape.
> 
> ...


Qft.


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## Shalimar (Jun 17, 2017)

Robusta said:


> In my mind any woman who goes into a room with a celebrity,has drinks is either an idiot or is looking for sex. Groupies abound and are a way of life for
> celebrities.  Sorry ladies,but a man on the road providing entertainment for millions when inviting a strange girl to his room or tour bus for drinks, is not interested in your brilliant mind or looking for sparkling conversation. If you think otherwise you are too naïve to leave your home. If they had come out and registered a complaint with in hours or even a day later fine.  Years after the fact they deserve no consideration.




Wow! With respect, this blame the victim approach is one of the reason many women do not come forward. This is not about whether or not these women were naive, this celebrity drugged them for the specific purpose 

of ****** assault.  He used his resources to fulfill his sick need to be a ****** predator. I have counseled victims of ****** assault for decades, this pattern is familiar, among celebrities and others who have the means 

to perpetuate this horror. Naivety should never prevent a victim from receiving the justice they deserve. Lack of consent equals ****** assault, pure and simple!!!  No woman "deserves it." As for being lax in reporting the 

assault ASAP, often victims are in shock, or too frightened and ashamed to come forward. There should be no
statute of limitations regarding ****** assault. In Canada, less that ten percent of rape trials result in a conviction. Shame. I doubt it is much different in America. Boys will be boys, after all.......


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## Butterfly (Jun 17, 2017)

Robusta said:


> In my mind any woman who goes into a room with a celebrity,has drinks is either an idiot or is looking for sex. Groupies abound and are a way of life for
> celebrities.  Sorry ladies,but a man on the road providing entertainment for millions when inviting a strange girl to his room or tour bus for drinks, is not interested in your brilliant mind or looking for sparkling conversation. If you think otherwise you are too naïve to leave your home. If they had come out and registered a complaint with in hours or even a day later fine.  Years after the fact they deserve no consideration.



The statute of limitations has run on the accusations of most of the women.  Without saying I think Cosby is without guilt, I imagine it would be very hard for any one of us to mount an effective factual defense against an accusation of wrongdoing (which has no forensic evidence) which allegedly took place so long ago.  I betcha that's what hung the jury, given the criminal burden of reasonable doubt (and legally they cannot take into consideration the allegations of other women -- each particular case must stand on its own).  It's a can of worms to get a conviction on such an old crime, especially where there is no hard evidence, and it is my understanding there is no hard evidence in this case.


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## oldman (Jun 18, 2017)

Some of the jurors do not want to believe that Daddy Bill would do those things. Montgomery County here in PA is a very liberal County. It was a very friendly place for Bill to have his trial.


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## Pattypan (Jun 18, 2017)

Here's the thing.  We have a ****** predator in the WH.  Why? Because we choose him over a qualified stateswoman because people carried on about her being a liar and a nasty woman that outta be in jail!  Bottom line?  Women are liars.  Therefore, we shouldn't believe them.  Those women probably came on to poor Bill anyway.  He was the victim. They asked for it!   He's a father figure.  America's beloved Dad!  Who you gonna trust?  All those lying women or dear old dad?  Especially on fathers day!

BTW, I put a hung jury in the same category as undecided voters.  Really?  You have no clue to who is lying or who you'd like to win the election?  You simply can't decide?  It's just too much for you? I have an idea.  Either spit or get off the pot.  Do your job or don't take on the job to begin with. 

Is anybody really shocked about this verdict?  In a country where men, and sadly some women, believe rape is all part of a god's (male god) plan, and that after a ****** attack women's bodies can shut it down if need be?  

We sound and look like a bunch of fools to the rest of the world.  No wonder the world is pointing and laughing at us.  We are a joke!


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## Shalimar (Jun 18, 2017)

Pattypan, sadly, I encounter  this attitude all too frequently when I work with victims of ****** assault.


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## Pattypan (Jun 18, 2017)

Shalimar, how can we fix this?  Is it even fixable?  Women aren't taken seriously.  Not even by other women. If Hillary would have called The-Liar-In-Chief a nasty man she would have been labeled a man hater, a b!tch, and a witch.  Who can forget how insulting that liar was to Hillary.  To be fair he insulted just about everybody but I digress...

We're such a backward society when it comes to equality for women.  It's more than insulting how some Congressmen and Senators talk down to their equals who happen to be women.  Well, maybe the women really aren't equal.  Perhaps they're a rung or two above their mean spirited male counterparts. lol.


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## helenbacque (Jun 18, 2017)

It appears that the private Bill Cosby differed greatly from the public one.   One a predator who preyed on vulnerable young women and the other America's hero.  The jury can't decide which is the real Bill and the fact that many of the women accepted their victimization in an effort to further their career makes judgment even more difficult.  Even if he is never legally punished for his actions, history will remember him as a predator and that is probably greater punishment for a public figure.  

Think about O. J. Simpson.  In prison he would have probably had hero status but judged 'not guilty' and released, he faced massive public condemnation which would be very hard to bear for one with such a massive ego.


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## Shalimar (Jun 18, 2017)

Pattypan said:


> Shalimar, how can we fix this?  Is it even fixable?  Women aren't taken seriously.  Not even by other women. If Hillary would have called The-Liar-In-Chief a nasty man she would have been labeled a man hater, a b!tch, and a witch.  Who can forget how insulting that liar was to Hillary.  To be fair he insulted just about everybody but I digress...
> 
> We're such a backward society when it comes to equality for women.  It's more than insulting how some Congressmen and Senators talk down to their equals who happen to be women.  Well, maybe the women really aren't equal.  Perhaps they're a rung or two above their mean spirited male counterparts. lol.


,


I hear you Pattypan. It is beyond frustrating. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I believe that education is key, both in and out of the home. I raised a feminist son, who is  married to a feminist woman. Many millenials male and female believe as he does, particularly those who are educated. Candian pundits prophecy a sea change here in Canada, due to the fact there are 

now more women attending university than men. Women are also invading the trades. Lol. Women, and the men who support equality on all fronts, must continue to speak out loudly against sexism/ mysogyny/violence against women, wherever they find it. Slowly, negative stereotypes against women are changing. Our prime minister is an avowed feminist, half his cabinet 

are women. Our federal justice minister is an indigenous woman. It is a start. When I first started working as a psychologist, many of the old guard attempted to treat me like a secretary. I stood firm. Now, I am treated as an equal by colleagues, but 

still occasionally run into older men/women who think a woman is too emotional/illogical to cope with the rigors of working with veterans suffering from PTSD.


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## Butterfly (Jun 18, 2017)

Before we badmouth the jurors, remember that they are bound by the instructions of the judge and the formal jury instructions, and also by the burden of proof (in this case, reasonable doubt).  In their deliberations they are bound by law NOT to consider anything outside of the particular case in which they were deliberating.  They can think that Cosby is guilty as hell of raping women right and left, but if there is not sufficient evidence in the particular case they are deliberating, they are bound to acquit.  If all cannot agree, there's a hung jury.

This particular case was quite old (13 years) and had initially been investigated and no real evidence was found.  The DA back then said so and did not prosecute.  The only "new evidence" (not evidence at all) was that a whole bunch of other women said he had done similar things to them.  From what I've read about the initial investigation, it was sloppily handled, but the accuser still did not make a report right away.  In ****** assault in particular, the cold hard truth is that if the victim waits to report it, any forensic evidence probably has been washed away and unless there are a bunch of eyewitnesses (unlikely), the chance of conviction is dim.  

Under our system, you have to PROVE beyond reasonable doubt that a particular defendant did a particular thing to a particular victim, not that he probably did it to a whole bunch of people and conclude that he probably did it to this victim, too. 

I think Cosby is probably guilty of a whole lot of bad and criminal behavior, but that doesn't change the way the system works.


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## Anomaly 73 (Jun 19, 2017)

If it _looks_ like a duck,_ quacks_ like a duck, and _walks_ like a duck...it's *probably* not a _swan_.


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## Butterfly (Jun 19, 2017)

Anomaly 73 said:


> If it _looks_ like a duck,_ quacks_ like a duck, and _walks_ like a duck...it's *probably* not a _swan_.



Quite true, but that's now jurors have to decide stuff.


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## dpwspringer (Jun 19, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Quite true, but that's now jurors have to decide stuff.


In my younger days when some of us would go out for happy hour on Friday evenings I would hear some interesting stories from some of the young honeys I worked with... seems in their eyes there was some status to be gained by what I called "celebrity banging". They would hang out at venues or hotels were visiting professional sports teams were staying. Just saying it isn't always clear what went on or who, if anyone, was a victim in certain situations. The life of a celebrity is so foreign to most of us that we have no clue...


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## Pattypan (Jun 19, 2017)

Young honeys?  @@

Shalimar, I didn't know your were Canadian.  The US likes to brag about being the greatest.  But, we're not that great.  I've taken some flack on other chat rooms for my thoughts and feelings about my country.  We are backward in so many ways. Especially when it comes to equality for women.  On one side of the street there are people shouting, "America - right or wrong!"  I'm on the other side of the street shouting, "America! Let's right Her wrongs."  And never the twain shall meet. 

Your country, as well as many others, are more mature than America.  We're still finding our way.  At times we're like spoiled two year old children with their fingers stuck in their ears screaming, "I can't hear you!" 

Like the guy taking up space in the White House.


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## Shalimar (Jun 19, 2017)

I was a pretty young woman once, but I have never been "a young honey." That term is patronising, reductionist, and downright insulting. I yearn for the day when women are judged by the content of their character rather than their appearance.


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## Pattypan (Jun 19, 2017)

Well said, Shalimar! 

How long will it take??


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## dpwspringer (Jun 19, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> I was a pretty young woman once, but I have never been "a young honey." That term is patronising, reductionist, and downright insulting. I yearn for the day when women are judged by the content of their character rather than their appearance.


Just what is it that YOU think the term "young honey" means that you think is so insulting and that I am so awful for using it?


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## Shalimar (Jun 19, 2017)

Pattypan said:


> Well said, Shalimar!
> 
> How long will it take??


Far too long! Actually, among my son's millenial generation, many men would never speak that way.


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## Shalimar (Jun 19, 2017)

dpwspringer said:


> Just what is it that YOU think the term "young honey" means that you think is so insulting and that I am so awful for using it?


I don't think you are an aweful person. I think you mean well. You may well believe your words are complimentary, I don't. Why? Because it labels a woman by her looks. For many of us who have struggled to be taken seriously in the 

business/professional world, being pretty was not an advantage. When I first received my Doctorate, and began practicing as a clinical psychologist, my petite, doll-like appearance was a hindrance more often than not, particularly among some of my older 

male colleagues. They had difficulty seeing me as a doctor first, a woman second. In their minds, I could not be both pretty and qualified. That stigma is shrinking, but still exists, particularly in the scientific community.


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## Robusta (Jun 19, 2017)

Can I start the age old battle?  I just saw a commercial on TV. A fellow was walking along, and a young woman was shimmying out a window butt first.  A commercial selling womans jeans to woman. In todays world I am fairly sure that the staff involved with creating that commercial were mostly if not all women.
You have babies barely more than toddlers being dressed up with gowns,tiarras, and make up to simulate a mature female.
You have cheer leading/dancing by high school girls that is only a pole away from being a club act
Waitresses all unbutton one extra because they know cleavage gets tips
And you ask why you are objectified?

You claim we are equal,but then when you or one of your sisters takes a handful of Quaaludes and goes to a frat party, suddenly the as a male the burden of responsibility shifts back to me?  At what point does your sisters responsibility to make responsible decisions come to the forefront? 

I have had sex with many a drunk chick,and I am sure some that I was to drunk to remember. And no I didn't,"get them drunk", any alcohol or drugs they consumed were of their own free will.  Can I say that some where there isn't some gal that had the morning after regrets or done the walk of shame away from my place. Hell no, because I know some I have walked away from feeling that way. But I damn well know that I didn't rape or victimize them in any way!

I have no sympathy for the asshole who drugs a girl without her knowledge.


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## HiDesertHal (Jun 20, 2017)

OK, Dr. Shalimar...you've got my interest up, so let's see a picture of you at your Piano!

Thank You,
High Desert Harold


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## Shalimar (Jun 20, 2017)

HiDesertHal said:


> OK, Dr. Shalimar...you've got my interest up, so let's see a picture of you at your Piano!
> 
> Thank You,
> High Desert Harold


I would love to oblige, HDH, unfortunately, this ancient IPad won't allow me to take pics. Je regrette....


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## HiDesertHal (Jun 20, 2017)

Well then, how about emailing me a picture that you have in your Computer files?

colt45hal@aol.com

HDH


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## Shalimar (Jun 20, 2017)

HiDesertHal said:


> Well then, how about emailing me a picture that you have in your Computer files?
> 
> colt45hal@aol.com
> 
> HDH


Again, he regrette, je suis triste, I don't have any. I really need to upgrade to a new iPad!


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## IKE (Jun 20, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> I would love to oblige, HDH, unfortunately, this ancient IPad won't allow me to take pics. Je regrette....



That's okay girl, no biggie.......actually once you've seen one attractive, red headed mermaid playing a piano you've seen em all anyway.


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## Shalimar (Jun 20, 2017)

IKE said:


> That's okay girl, no biggie.......actually once you've seen one attractive, red headed mermaid playing a piano you've seen em all anyway.


Lulz. Ike, you are fun!


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## hauntedtexan (Jun 20, 2017)

Pattypan said:


> Here's the thing.  We have a ****** predator in the WH.  Why? Because we choose him over a qualified stateswoman because people carried on about her being a liar and a nasty woman that outta be in jail!  Bottom line?  Women are liars.  Therefore, we shouldn't believe them.  Those women probably came on to poor Bill anyway.  He was the victim. They asked for it!   He's a father figure.  America's beloved Dad!  Who you gonna trust?  All those lying women or dear old dad?  Especially on fathers day!
> 
> BTW, I put a hung jury in the same category as undecided voters.  Really?  You have no clue to who is lying or who you'd like to win the election?  You simply can't decide?  It's just too much for you? I have an idea.  Either spit or get off the pot.  Do your job or don't take on the job to begin with.
> 
> ...


Good God, Hillary portrayed as a qualified stateswoman..... why no mention of her integrity while Bill was dipping into the intern pool and anywhere else he wanted to go? Cannot have it both ways..... Men and women are two totally separate species, brought together for the purpose of reproduction that are stupid enough to think they can understand each other..... viva la difference..... I have never abused a woman physically or mentally, and have never thought of a woman as a lesser being......ever. Although I have questioned the logic of some forum participants.... as they have questioned mine...:wave:


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## HiDesertHal (Jun 23, 2017)

What is the makeup of the Cosby jury?

HDH


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## Butterfly (Jun 24, 2017)

I think I read it was 10 white and 2 black, though I may be mistaken.


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 24, 2017)

When I read this the other day it made me cringe, what could go wrong.

“Mr. Cosby wants to get back to work,” said Andrew Wyatt, a spokesperson for Cosby, “We are now planning town  halls.... We’re going to talk to young people, because this is bigger  than Bill Cosby. This issue can affect any young person, especially  young athletes of today. And they need to know what they're facing when  they’re hanging out and partying, when they’re doing certain things that  they should be doing. And it also affects married men.”

IMO Mr. Cosby would do well to spend his last few years of freedom quietly, away from the public eye.


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## HiDesertHal (Jun 24, 2017)

Yes, but since the Defendants are Women, shouldn't the jury be 11 Women and 1 Man?

HDH


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## dpwspringer (Jun 24, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> I think I read it was 10 white and 2 black, though I may be mistaken.


I didn't hear anything about the makeup but heard it was 2 holdouts for not guilty that led to the mistrial.


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## Stormy (Jun 28, 2017)

HiDesertHal said:


> What is the makeup of the Cosby jury?
> 
> HDH


I read it was 7 men and 5 women


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## Stormy (Jun 28, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> If a _randy_ old fool handed me three blue pills I would say no thanks and move along but that's just me.


Old or young fool Aunt Bea I would say no too and maybe not thanks either


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## Stormy (Jun 28, 2017)

JaniceM said:


> I noticed other threads on this topic, refrained from commenting, and hope commenting here doesn't result in getting figuratively jumped & spit on, but am I the only person who's considered the possibility that this guy might be innocent?
> If one person had accused him, or maybe even two people, but all of those women accusing him?  I'm tempted to believe they look at a rich-and-famous superstar in terms of how they might benefit from a guilty verdict.
> Obviously if he's guilty he should pay the consequences, but the more women that jumped on the bandwagon the less guilty he looks.


I don't think he's completely innocent Janice and I don't think all those women accusers are completely truthful either. I agree with you that anyone who is found guilty should pay the consequence whether they're man or woman


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## Stormy (Jun 28, 2017)

WhatInThe said:


> I think many of these women were trying to use Cosby to further their careers, help with a deal etc. But sex without consent is rape. Then again with no physical evidence it's he said-she said in many of those cases let alone this one.
> 
> The victim in this case continued to interact with Cosby after the incident.
> 
> ...


What In The I feel the same way that those women were most likely trying to use Cosby to further their careers by flirting with him and getting drunk with him and so forth. If I'm flirting with a man and teasing him, drinking with him and going to his room I'd expect that having sex with him was in the future. I wouldn't get drunk with a man and lead him on unless I wanted it to go further. It's not like he drugged them duck taped them and brought them to his room in the trunk of his car. When he didn't do much for their careers they were probably angry and felt shame for their actions. When this whole thing came up they probably joined the gang to try a last ditch effort to cash in. I still say if he is proven guilty of any of the alleged accusations he should pay the price. Again I didn't follow this trial closely I had little interest from the beginning


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## Camper6 (Jun 28, 2017)

Maybe it's just me. And I haven't read the whole thread.  But.  Doesn't the victims have some kind of responsibility in their life choices?  Surely they cannot be that naive and that innocent.  

Is it just me that feels that way?


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## Shalimar (Jun 28, 2017)

My God, 2017, and blame the woman still exists. This serial ****** predator drugged these young women and sexually assaulted them! No wonder so many women don't report ****** assault. He, and he alone is responsible. The leading men on 

defence is ludicrous. A man is not helpless in the face of crazed testosterone overload whenever confronted with a woman, sexy or otherwise. ****** assault is a choice which speaks to arrogance, self entitlement, power/denigration of women dynamics.


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## Stormy (Jun 28, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Maybe it's just me. And I haven't read the whole thread.  But.  Doesn't the victims have some kind of responsibility in their life choices?  Surely they cannot be that naive and that innocent.
> 
> Is it just me that feels that way?



No it's not just you Camper and some "victims" can only become victims when things don't go their way.  Again not all of them because there are many women in America and other countries that are forcibly raped and sometimes murdered and for those women I feel deep sympathy. I think most of the women in question here were not naïve or innocent but I wasn't there so I don't know the whole story there is usually two sides to consider


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## HipGnosis (Jun 28, 2017)

Cosby went into the trial being held up by two people, shuffling his feet and claiming to be functionally blind.
He walked out on his own, standing tall as he smiled at waved to the people.
That just looks guilty.


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## Butterfly (Jun 28, 2017)

HiDesertHal said:


> Yes, but since the Defendants are Women, shouldn't the jury be 11 Women and 1 Man?
> 
> HDH



Um . . . Cosby was the Defendant, not the women.


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## Shalimar (Jun 28, 2017)

HipGnosis said:


> Cosby went into the trial being held up by two people, shuffling his feet and claiming to be functionally blind.
> He walked out on his own, standing tall as he smiled at waved to the people.
> That just looks guilty.


Doesn't it, though?


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## Robusta (Jun 28, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> Doesn't it, though?




No one has yet addressed the point about when women are going to be held at all responsible when they choose to put themselves into risky situations and fail to properly monitor their intake of alcohol and or drugs.

By refusing to hold these women responsible for their voluntary actions,and holding the male ultimately responsible only supports the necessity of  paternalistic oversight, something I thought feminists detested.

How many women are in prison because they reportedly were,"led astray" by their man.  Bull shit, You are strong, independent, stand up put on the big girl drawers and quit blaming others for your short comings and lack of personal direction.

Can't always have your cake and eat it too!!!


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## Shalimar (Jun 28, 2017)

Robusta said:


> No one has yet addressed the point about when women are going to be held at all responsible when they choose to put themselves into risky situations and fail to properly monitor their intake of alcohol and or drugs.
> 
> By refusing to hold these women responsible for their voluntary actions,and holding the male ultimately responsible only supports the necessity of  paternalistic oversight, something I thought feminists detested.
> 
> ...




Really? This predator drugged these women into a stupor out of a perverse sense of power, and when they were incapable of any resistance sexually assaulted them. Interesting that antediluvian attitudes around women's behaviour in being drunk etc in 

the company of men as being somehow complicit in their own ****** assault still exist. This predator admitted years ago that he purchased Quaaludes for the express purpose of having sex, and that he did not inform the women of the nature of these 

drugs. The man exhibits sociopathic behaviour.


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## Camper6 (Jun 28, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> Really? This predator drugged these women into a stupor out of a perverse sense of power, and when they were incapable of any resistance sexually assaulted them. Interesting that antediluvian attitudes around women's behaviour in being drunk etc in
> 
> the company of men as being somehow complicit in their own ****** assault still exist. This predator admitted years ago that he purchased Quaaludes for the express purpose of having sex, and that he did not inform the women of the nature of these
> 
> drugs. The man exhibits sociopathic behaviour.



And they took them on their own without being forced to?  There's no excuse for stupidity is there?  Years ago huh?  Why wasn't it reported then?


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## Camper6 (Jun 28, 2017)

HiDesertHal said:


> Yes, but since the Defendants are Women, shouldn't the jury be 11 Women and 1 Man?
> 
> HDH



Well don't the lawyers get to pick the jury and accept or reject those called?


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## Shalimar (Jun 28, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> And they took them on their own without being forced to?  There's no excuse for stupidity is there?  Years ago huh?  Why wasn't it reported then?




Sigh. The drugs were administered to them without their knowledge. As for not reporting it, Cosby was a big star, who would have believed them? Assuming of course they could face the shame of admitting they had been assaulted. Again, this is 

blaming young women for their own assault. Have you ever experienced the horror of being incapable of resisting a man who is determined to assault you? Someone you trusted, older, wiser? I have. Was I stupid, no, I admired him, he was an esteemed 


professor, after all. He spoke as a mentor, as a student studying for my PhD, I was flattered and grateful for his interest. Too late I discovered what a sham it was. Had I reported him, nothing would have happened to him, but I would have been 

discredited and my Doctorate gone up in smoke. I was not directionless, merely too trusting. This incident had a lifelong impact, as all such traumas do.  I am a stong woman, successful,  but I lost something that day that was irreplaceable.


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## Camper6 (Jun 29, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> Sigh. The drugs were administered to them without their knowledge. As for not reporting it, Cosby was a big star, who would have believed them? Assuming of course they could face the shame of admitting they had been assaulted. Again, this is
> 
> blaming young women for their own assault. Have you ever experienced the horror of being incapable of resisting a man who is determined to assault you? Someone you trusted, older, wiser? I have. Was I stupid, no, I admired him, he was an esteemed
> 
> ...



Sounds consensual to me.


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## Shalimar (Jun 29, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Sounds consensual to me.



Rape is consensual? Wow. Further conversation is futile. I shall take a deep breath and invoke the ignore function.


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## Camper6 (Jun 29, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> Rape is consensual? Wow. Further conversation is futile. I shall take a deep breath and invoke the ignore function.



Sorry. I didn't read anything about rape or force being used. The word assault could mean anything.


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## Butterfly (Jun 29, 2017)

Whether or not a woman is incapacitated whether it is by her actions (drank herself into a stupor) or whether the male administers a drug to her, the fact remains that the male has the decision whether or not to proceed with intercourse.  If, in this day and age, a man is unable to control his urges to copulate, he should not be out in society. Some people are suggesting that the poor decisions of the female somehow excuse the male's decision to penetrate her without her consent, which is absurd.  It is not unlike suggesting that a male who flashes a wad of money around in public is himself somehow responsible for the fact that he is robbed of that money because he made the poor decision to flash it around in public, which is also absurd.

The shooting and killing of an unconscious person is no less murder, so why is the ****** assault of an unconscious person any less rape?


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## Robusta (Jun 29, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Whether or not a woman is incapacitated whether it is by her actions (drank herself into a stupor) or whether the male administers a drug to her, the fact remains that the male has the decision whether or not to proceed with intercourse.  If, in this day and age, a man is unable to control his urges to copulate, he should not be out in society. Some people are suggesting that the poor decisions of the female somehow excuse the male's decision to penetrate her without her consent, which is absurd.  It is not unlike suggesting that a male who flashes a wad of money around in public is himself somehow responsible for the fact that he is robbed of that money because he made the poor decision to flash it around in public, which is also absurd.
> 
> The shooting and killing of an unconscious person is no less murder, so why is the ****** assault of an unconscious person any less rape?



So a woman is excused any and all frailties, including,(I loved and admired him),to allowing herself to become intoxicated to the point that her actions are involuntary? Come on thats ridiculous.
If I ask you to smuggle a kilo of coke across a border,it is not my fault that you are so easily manipulated because you"love"me, or you worshipped me. Does not make me a nice guy, but a criminal no.

Sorry, no one but yourself is responsible for your own chastity and safety.

At what point is the male considered to be so intoxicated or impaired that his lack of judgement can be excused? Ever?

Once again woman seem to be depending on some level of paternalistic guardianship which once again make them, the "weaker" sex.

Again I will emphasize that I am talking about self intoxication, not being slipped a Mickey, which on any level is inexcusable.


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## Camper6 (Jun 29, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Whether or not a woman is incapacitated whether it is by her actions (drank herself into a stupor) or whether the male administers a drug to her, the fact remains that the male has the decision whether or not to proceed with intercourse.  If, in this day and age, a man is unable to control his urges to copulate, he should not be out in society. Some people are suggesting that the poor decisions of the female somehow excuse the male's decision to penetrate her without her consent, which is absurd.  It is not unlike suggesting that a male who flashes a wad of money around in public is himself somehow responsible for the fact that he is robbed of that money because he made the poor decision to flash it around in public, which is also absurd.
> 
> The shooting and killing of an unconscious person is no less murder, so why is the ****** assault of an unconscious person any less rape?



Would said it wasn't?


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## Butterfly (Jun 29, 2017)

Robusta said:


> So a woman is excused any and all frailties, including,(I loved and admired him),to allowing herself to become intoxicated to the point that her actions are involuntary? Come on thats ridiculous.
> *If I ask you to smuggle a kilo of coke across a border,it is not my fault that you are so easily manipulated because you"love"me, or you worshipped me. Does not make me a nice guy, but a criminal no.*
> 
> Sorry, no one but yourself is responsible for your own chastity and safety.
> ...



The difference in  your first scenario, the one about the coke, is that the woman makes the final decision to do the act herself, whether misguided or misled.  The criminal act of smuggling the coke is something she undertakes to do.  And no, her lack of judgment in this case cannot be excused.

The woman cannot undertake to rape herself.  Rape is a criminal act which the male undertakes against the woman, and no, his lack of judgment in this case cannot be excused, either.  Rape is always a crime, getting falling down drunk isn't, and it most assuredly not an invitation to rape.

In my experience, if the male is so intoxicated or impaired as to not know the difference between rape and consensual sex, he probably isn't able to perform, either. 

If a male gets intoxicated or impaired, would that excuse another male from sexually assaulting him?  No.  We all have the right to be secure in our persons, and the law recognizes that.


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## Camper6 (Jun 29, 2017)

it's different with men than women.

Just because of men's nature. 

However, I can't begin to tell you how many times I was too dumb to realize the female approaching me was looking for 'fun' and I was too stupid to realize it.  Maybe it worked out o.k. because women can play me like a fiddle.


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## Butterfly (Jun 29, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> it's different with men than women.
> 
> Just because of men's nature.
> 
> However, I can't begin to tell you how many times I was too dumb to realize the female approaching me was looking for 'fun' and I was too stupid to realize it.  Maybe it worked out o.k. because women can play me like a fiddle.



Exactly how do you mean it's different with men than with women?  do you mean it is different for a man to be sexually assaulted than it is for a woman?  Or do you mean that it's different because you believe men don't have the strength to control their urges?  Or do you believe men shouldn't have to?


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## RadishRose (Jun 29, 2017)

They have the strength, some just don't want to, and hide behind the old excuse- "but we're men"! 
So what? 
That doesn't float anymore.


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## Camper6 (Jun 29, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Exactly how do you mean it's different with men than with women?  do you mean it is different for a man to be sexually assaulted than it is for a woman?  Or do you mean that it's different because you believe men don't have the strength to control their urges?  Or do you believe men shouldn't have to?



No.  It's just that men by their very nature are 'predators' to women if you want to call it that because without men being the agressor the human population would have died out years ago. 

Yep. Men have to control their urges and those urges are presented to them every day so to speak.

How about women? Give me your experience.  I'm interested.  It seems to me that women simply do not understand the ****** urge in men.


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## Robusta (Jun 29, 2017)

RadishRose said:


> They have the strength, some just don't want to, and hide behind the old excuse- "but we're men"!
> So what?
> That doesn't float anymore.



Wow! So as long as I am sober enough to perform,you are saddling me with being  the one required to make a rational decision.

I guess that the only way I could ever have casual pick up sex is if I have a written notarized letter of consent.

You do understand that the words, "No I don't want to do this" or some equally clear language must be used.  Or am I in my own drunken state supposed to accurately measure your level of passion or passivity.

I have no idea of how strong a womans sex drive may be, but let me tell you, Do not sit an 18 or 20 year old male down at the table, especially with mind altering substances involved,serve the first course, and then put the entrée back in the freezer.  Neither of you will be happy.

You cannot deny that millions, probably billions of women have had consensual relations, and had post coitis change of heart and have spent the rest of their lives telling their "rape" story. 

Rape is an horrible crime, and I know of no one that endorses or approves of it. 

Just say NO loudly and unequivocally,,

I am really not an asshole, I just don't like being played.


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