# Normal living' will come months after vaccine, Fauci says;



## Becky1951 (Sep 12, 2020)

Normal living' will come months after vaccine, Fauci says;

While a race to a vaccine is widely considered the only path back to a pre-pandemic way of life, Dr. Anthony Fauci cautioned that a safe and effective vaccine will not immediately bring back normalcy.

A return to "normal living" — life without masks and physical distancing, where people can go to a movie or a large gathering without fear of becoming infected with COVID-19 — won't come until "several months" after a vaccine first arrives, Fauci, said on CNN.

The director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said infection rates need to drop dramatically, something expected after the months-long logistical nightmare of manufacturing hundreds of millions of vaccines and distributing them.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...lorida-new-york-city-donald-trump/3465633001/


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 12, 2020)

For those like dear husband and I, I'm not so sure we'll ever go back to the old way. 

I personally like it this way, and logic tells me there are a high percentage of others who feel the same, so I'm a firm-believer in the idea that what we are seeing now will exist indefinitely with some.


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## Butterfly (Sep 12, 2020)

I certainly do not like it this way, but I think it will be a long time until we are anywhere near "normal."


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 12, 2020)

I think that I'm at an age where this is my new normal.

I may get to the point where I only wear a mask during flu season but I will probably continue social distancing, avoid large gatherings and close contact with strangers for the rest of my life.


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## AnnieA (Sep 12, 2020)

I think he has a financial stake in vaccine development.

We're moving toward natural herd immunity with every case.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 12, 2020)

I won't be going back to the old ways. No large gatherings of any kind. Social distancing and using hand sanitizer is now normal to me and will continue to me.

I haven't gone anywhere so only used a mask when son and daughter in law visited from OR in May.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 12, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> *I won't be going back to the old ways. No large gatherings of any kind. Social distancing and using hand sanitizer is now normal to me and will continue to me*.
> 
> I haven't gone anywhere so only used a mask when son and daughter in law visited from OR in May.


That's how I feel, too, Becky.


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## tbeltrans (Sep 12, 2020)

Well, one thing that this COVID-19 situation has done is to help weed out my internet activities.  I have permanently abandoned forums in which any discussion of COVID-19 is now banned because those in control feel it is too volatile.  To me, those discussions have only served to bring into clear focus the true nature of those forums.

This forum, to me, seems to have kept a high level of civility, and that requires a certain amount of maturity and character, so lacking in much of our culture today.  I am glad to have landed here, as it is rapidly becoming my only forum activity.  I am not involved in social platforms such as Twitter, Facebook, and such at all.

As for the stay at home thing, that is pretty much us anyway, so that has been normal.  The only thing that has changed for us is we have pretty much cut out local shopping aside from necessities.  We have long limited ourselves to going out to eat once a week, and usually that is lunch.  During this time, we probably go only once every two or three weeks at most.  We may continue that, since going out to eat is expensive and is not a necessity to us.

Tony


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 12, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Well, one thing that this COVID-19 situation has done is to help weed out my internet activities.  I have permanently abandoned forums in which any discussion of COVID-19 is now banned because those in control feel it is too volatile.  To me, those discussions have only served to bring into clear focus the true nature of those forums.
> 
> *This forum, to me, seems to have kept a high level of civility, and that requires a certain amount of maturity and character, so lacking in much of our culture today.*  I am glad to have landed here, as it is rapidly becoming my only forum activity.  I am not involved in social platforms such as Twitter, Facebook, and such at all.
> 
> ...


I couldn't have said it better.


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## macgeek (Sep 12, 2020)

I fear we have lost some freedoms forever.  what will the government do the next time this happens I also fear.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 12, 2020)

macgeek said:


> I fear we have lost some freedoms forever.  what will the government do the next time this happens I also fear.


Definitely makes one think, doesn't it...


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## mlh (Sep 12, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> I won't be going back to the old ways. No large gatherings of any kind. Social distancing and using hand sanitizer is now normal to me and will continue to me.
> 
> I haven't gone anywhere so only used a mask when son and daughter in law visited from OR in May.



_I will not be going back to my old ways either. I am content with this way now. I would be too concerned to return to normal. I do not trust it._


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## tbeltrans (Sep 12, 2020)

Hopefully, the trade-offs of some element of freedom for some element of security will be worth it.  I suspect that, as with many such situations, it will only be with benefit of hindsight that we can really know.  A lot of people in the medical community and government have had to make difficult decisions affecting millions of people, and with the politics involved, that gets to be rather dicey.  I can honestly say that I am glad I am not in that position of having to make those calls.

Tony


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## macgeek (Sep 12, 2020)

tired of wearing masks and hearing the words "social distancing"... being alive is dangerous to our health... we can't possibly run or hide from every danger that comes along.. we can't live in fear forever... we can't cancel everything forever. I've pretty much had enough. this lock down has harmed more people including children and seniors probably more than anyone will ever know.


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## oldman (Sep 12, 2020)

I already feel like I have been cheated out of a year and that isn't a good thing. I'm not one that likes to sit around and talk about the weather. I had some great plans for this summer and none of them came to fruition. 

My wife bought a $10.00 raffle ticket from a band member at the local high school because they were invited to play in the Thanksgiving Day parade in New York, I believe. Now, that trip (not the parade, which I do not know the status of) has been cancelled and now some of the other people that bought tickets want their money back. My wife sent the school band's booster club a nice letter telling them to keep the money because she is sure that they will use it wisely. I was kind of surprised that some people would do that.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 12, 2020)

oldman said:


> I already feel like I have been cheated out of a year and that isn't a good thing. I'm not one that likes to sit around and talk about the weather. I had some great plans for this summer and none of them came to fruition.
> 
> My wife bought a $10.00 raffle ticket from a band member at the local high school because they were invited to play in the Thanksgiving Day parade in New York, I believe. Now, that trip (not the parade, which I do not know the status of) has been cancelled and now some of the other people that bought tickets want their money back. My wife sent the school band's booster club a nice letter telling them to keep the money because she is sure that they will use it wisely. I was kind of surprised that some people would do that.



I understand others point of view about wanting to get back out there and live. Its each persons perception of what *Living* a full life is. Some like the quiet stay at or around home with limited contact, keeping it small get together's, others want large venues to attend etc. 

Personally I like sitting and discussing the weather, or grandchildren, or? What ever topic comes to mind with a small gathering. Just because some don't want to be in crowds or going someplace doesn't mean we are stagnate or missing out on *Life*.


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## tbeltrans (Sep 12, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> I understand others point of view about wanting to get back out there and live. Its each persons perception of what *Living* a full life is. Some like the quiet stay at or around home with limited contact, keeping it small get together's, others want large venues to attend etc.
> 
> Personally I like sitting and discussing the weather, or grandchildren, or? What ever topic comes to mind with a small gathering. Just because some don't want to be in crowds or going someplace doesn't mean we are stagnate or missing out on *Life*.



My response isn't directed at the post you were commenting on, but instead your post did strike a more general observation that supports what you are saying (since you do describe my wife and I in your second paragraph  )...

There is a couple in our condo association that borrow to buy everything - vacations, appliances, big pickup trucks, etc. They like to go to casinos quite frequently to go gambling.  Of course, you only hear about it when they win and we wouldn't dare to ask the very practical question regarding how much they have lost to get to that small winning. The true answer lies in the fact that casinos are huge and very well appointed.  The money has to come from somewhere to support those casinos.

Anyway, we live debt free and our interests are much more home centered.  They tell us that we live boring lives.  They neglect the fact that my wife and I individually traveled the world prior to meeting and getting married, that my career has taken me all over the world, and that we are actually quite happy to settle down for the later years.

There are people who like to live on the edge, betting their financial future on what they want right now, and to them, what those of us who live more conservatively do is rather boring.  But this is just one extreme.

There is a whole spectrum between the extremes that most of us probably fit into over the course of our lives.  What matters is that a given individual is comfortable with where s/he is at any point over the course of his or her life and if not, makes adjustments accordingly.

There is an old saying that "one man's meat is another man's poison", and that certainly holds true in this kind of situation.  Not everybody chooses to live the same lifestyle, and that is fine.  The only problem happens when one judges another's lifestyle by one's own definition.  To me, that couple I described is living recklessly and at some point, will have some sort of financial comeuppance.  But, then, that is me judging them by my own standards, not theirs.  They may come out of it all just fine in the end.  What do I know? 

Tony


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## CarolfromTX (Sep 12, 2020)

Even if it takes a couple of months, I'm fine with it. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to go back to at least some semblance of normality, but to each his own. I want to be able to get in an airplane again, eat at a buffet again, get on a cruise ship again, play bridge again, and hug every single one of my friends for dear life.


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## tbeltrans (Sep 12, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> Even if it takes a couple of months, I'm fine with it. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to go back to at least some semblance of normality, but to each his own. I want to be able to get in an airplane again, eat at a buffet again, get on a cruise ship again, play bridge again, and hug every single one of my friends for dear life.



I suspect that, while we all probably would like to go back to pre-COVID-19 ways, some of us have more easily adapted to the current situation due to our lifestyles not having to change much to adjust.  While I am fine with my life as it is, I certainly wouldn't wish for anyone to have their activities limited by the virus or anything else.

Then again, there may be some who have discovered that they actually prefer more "alone time" than they realized before having it forced on them by current circumstance.

My point is that there could be a number of reasons that some of us have expressed being content with the way things are, but I doubt that any of us, in expressing this, would wish on anyone the limitations forced by the current situation.

We would all miss some of the things you mentioned in terms of person to person contact, whether we are still into travelling and that sort of thing or not.  I did all my travel, mostly for work, in the first half of my life and am perfectly content to not do that anymore.  We also don't go to buffets since for my wife, she wouldn't get much of her money;s worth due to health limitations.  But being able to exchange hugs and that kind of thing, I doubt that any of us wouldn't miss that by now.

Tony


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## PopsnTuff (Sep 12, 2020)

Just wanna see my little grandkids more without stressing over who might infect who....have turned them down too many times and havent seen them since February....they and the fam video chats but its not nearly the same as in person


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## Nathan (Sep 12, 2020)

This is the new normal, get comfortable with it.


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## CarolfromTX (Sep 12, 2020)

Nathan said:


> This is the new normal, get comfortable with it.


Nope. Nope. Nope. I will never get "comfortable" with it. Never. It is not normal. But you give in, Nathan. Roll over and give in. Not me. I'm a fighter.


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## mlh (Sep 12, 2020)

I doubt anyone is "rolling over and giving in." For some of us it is a personal choice just as yours is @CarolfromTX. Not one single person is suggesting you should go ahead and act like a nut job and run into the arms of death.


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## CarolfromTX (Sep 12, 2020)

Run into the arms of death? Overstating it a bit, don't you think? And Nathan said to "get comfortable" with it. To me, that's giving up. And giving in. No, no, a thousand times no. In my county (Williamson County, Texas) there are 8,337 cases. There have been 135 deaths. That's a .01619228 percent death rate. Horrible for the families of the deceased. But pretty good odds for me. So not exactly running into the arms of death. To put this in perspective, when I had my cataract surgery, my doctor told me because of my "long eyes" I had an increased possibility of complications, increasing my odds to as much as 6 percent. It was a concern. I did it anyway. Best thing I ever did  by the way. So I wear a mask when I'm out, socialize with a select few, and take my chances. I'm not going to criticize anyone for hunkering down. But I can't stand it when people just tell me to get used to it. Or, like your hyperbolic "run into the arms of death." Tsk.


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## Nathan (Sep 12, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> Nope. Nope. Nope. I will never get "comfortable" with it. Never. It is not normal. But you give in, Nathan. Roll over and give in. Not me. I'm a fighter.



You are a funny person.     You go ahead and " fight", chase your fantasies or whatever makes you feel good about yourself.   I deal with the real world head on, because reality is the only thing I can sink my teeth in.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 12, 2020)

Nathan said:


> You are a funny person.     You go ahead and " fight", chase your fantasies or whatever makes you feel good about yourself.   I deal with the real world head on, because reality is the only thing I can sink my teeth in.


You sound like a realist like me, Nathan, one who balks at the fantasy world that so many live in today.


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## bowmore (Sep 12, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> Run into the arms of death? Overstating it a bit, don't you think? And Nathan said to "get comfortable" with it. To me, that's giving up. And giving in. No, no, a thousand times no. In my county (Williamson County, Texas) there are 8,337 cases. There have been 135 deaths. That's a .*01619228 percent* death rate. Horrible for the families of the deceased. But pretty good odds for me. So not exactly running into the arms of death. To put this in perspective, when I had my cataract surgery, my doctor told me because of my "long eyes" I had an increased possibility of complications, increasing my odds to as much as 6 percent. It was a concern. I did it anyway. Best thing I ever did  by the way. So I wear a mask when I'm out, socialize with a select few, and take my chances. I'm not going to criticize anyone for hunkering down. But I can't stand it when people just tell me to get used to it. Or, like your hyperbolic "run into the arms of death." Tsk.


Sorry, Carol, but that is a 1.6 percent death rate.


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## Kayelle (Sep 12, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> I think he has a financial stake in vaccine development.
> 
> We're moving toward natural herd immunity with every case.



*Dr. Fauci *is the ONLY person I have trusted and  believed in from the start of this mess. How cynical can it be to believe he has ulterior motives of profit from this horrible nightmare is just outrageous in my opinion. He has never lied to us about the truth. I trust that.

All the bald faced lies we were spoon fed from the start, we know now as an absolute proven fact that all those lies were intentionally told to us when the truth was known. There is no question about the lies that were fed to us now. 
It's beyond imagination it was thought the American public couldn't "handle" the TRUTH to be told from the start. That's unforgivable. Don't EVER lie to me!  Most people could have all handled the truth! I hate to be lied to for any reason, and the life and death accurate truthful information that should have been told from the start could have saved some of the thousands of Americans *DEAD *because of all the *LIES*.
Off my soapbox for for now.


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## AnnieA (Sep 13, 2020)

Kayelle said:


> *Dr. Fauci *is the ONLY person I have trusted and  believed in from the start of this mess. How cynical can it be to believe he has ulterior motives of profit from this horrible nightmare is just outrageous in my opinion. He has never lied to us about the truth. I trust that.
> 
> All the bald faced lies we were spoon fed from the start, we know now as an absolute proven fact that all those lies were intentionally told to us when the truth was known. There is no question about the lies that were fed to us now.
> It's beyond imagination it was thought the American public couldn't "handle" the TRUTH to be told from the start. That's unforgivable. Don't EVER lie to me!  Most people could have all handled the truth! I hate to be lied to for any reason, and the life and death accurate truthful information that should have been told from the start could have saved some of the thousands of Americans *DEAD *because of all the *LIES*.
> Off my soapbox for for now.




I knew on January 24th that the world was about to get slammed because highly contagious respiratory viruses plus commercial airline speeds of 460 – 575 miles per hour do not add up to anything other than a pandemic.   Either a) I'm smarter than Fauci, or b) he's a liar.  I'm pretty sure "*a)*" is the wrong answer...

*24 January 2020*

Chinese New Years Events Cancelled

All major Chinese New Year events have been canceled in Beijing from Thursday, along with all other large-scale activities, including temple fairs, in a bid to prevent the spread of the coronavirus. Several major tourist attractions and public venues have also been temporarily closed, the city's tourism bureau reports.​
This was within 24 hours of learning of the Wuhan lockdown.

*17 February 2020*

Fauci tells USA Today's editorial board:  Top disease official: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention will be testing for the coronavirus in people in five major cities who show up at clinics with flu-like symptoms but who test negative for the seasonal varieties.​​If that testing shows the virus has slipped into the country in places federal officials don't know about, "we've got a problem," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told USA TODAY's Editorial Board Monday.​​Short of that, Fauci says skip the masks unless you are contagious, don't worry about catching anything from Chinese products and certainly don't avoid Chinese people or restaurants.​​Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule." But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave."​
.


Fact is, Fauci has been spoon-feeding bald faced lies from the start.

.


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## oldman (Sep 13, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> Nope. Nope. Nope. I will never get "comfortable" with it. Never. It is not normal. But you give in, Nathan. Roll over and give in. Not me. I'm a fighter.


Absolutely, I’m with you. How much sitting around and discussing the same rhetoric are we supposed to do, especially without repeating ourselves? Even the grandchildren are asking when do we get to be free again?


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## oldman (Sep 13, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> You sound like a realist like me, Nathan, one who balks at the fantasy world that so many live in today.


No one has to accept the way we are being forced to live as the new normal. Life will change and that you can take to the bank.


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## CarolfromTX (Sep 13, 2020)

The ONLY reason so many people trust Dr. Fauci is because he seems to be in opposition to the president. I mean, he's a radiologist, not an epidemiologist. So....


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## Kayelle (Sep 13, 2020)

Annie A said:


> I knew on January 24th that the world was about to get slammed because highly contagious respiratory viruses plus commercial airline speeds of 460 – 575 miles per hour do not add up to anything other than a pandemic.   Either a) I'm smarter than Fauci, or b) he's a liar.  I'm pretty sure "*a)*" is the wrong answer...
> 
> *24 January 2020*
> 
> ...





AnnieA said:


> I knew on January 24th that the world was about to get slammed because highly contagious respiratory viruses plus commercial airline speeds of 460 – 575 miles per hour do not add up to anything other than a pandemic.   Either a) I'm smarter than Fauci, or b) he's a liar.  I'm pretty sure "*a)*" is the wrong answer...
> 
> *24 January 2020*
> 
> ...



Annie A @ the one thing we agree with is neither one of us is likely as smart as Dr. Fauchi.

I totally disagree with everything else you said.

When Dr. Fauchi said on Jan. 17th that only the sick needed to wear masks, that was long *before *it was understood how this thing can spread by the infected with no symptoms and no masks.
He also went on to say "If that testing shows the virus has slipped into the country in places federal officials don't know about, "we've got a problem," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told USA TODAY's Editorial Board.
In short, he did not know what was going to happen here, nor did you or I.

Wuhan China went into lockdown on Jan 22, claiming they had 17 dead and 600 infected by the end of Dec. We can bet that's yet another lie from China, as we know the total was astronomical as by Feb their 84 crematoria furnaces were burning 24/7 with up to 1,500 bodies a day.

I respectfully suggest you watch Bob Woodword on CBS 60 Minutes tonight to be better informed about the LIES that were fed to us and by whom.  I would also suggest the the information on Social Media is next to worthless.


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## win231 (Sep 13, 2020)

Fauci is always good for a chuckle.  This is still my favorite photo:


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## StarSong (Sep 13, 2020)

Life will return to something very close to what it was a year ago, of that I'm confident.   This isn't the first pandemic  humans have faced and it won't be the last. 

Most who are adults now will likely keep an eye on news of rapidly spreading diseases though.   Our pantries will be better stocked and we'll be more likely to self quarantine or wear masks for the short term if there's a threat. 

I'm with @CarolfromTX and @oldman.  I want to travel, cruise, hug friends, attend parties,  etc.


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## AnnieA (Sep 13, 2020)

Kayelle said:


> Annie A @ the one thing we agree with is neither one of us is likely as smart as Dr. Fauchi.
> 
> I totally disagree with everything else you said.
> 
> When Dr. Fauchi said on Jan. 17th ...



He said it mid *February*.  You misread the dates in my post.    He knew that if China did what they did ...the acutal Jan 24th bit if you'll look over Post #29 chronology again... that we were in for it, yet still came out with the 'miniscule' bit in February.

We have been lied to.  Still are being lied to and Fauci is complicit.


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## Pepper (Sep 13, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> The ONLY reason so many people trust Dr. Fauci is because he seems to be in opposition to the president. I mean,* he's a radiologist, not an epidemiologist.* So....


Carol, that description fits Dr. Scott Atlas, the president's new covid health advisor.  That does not fit Dr. Fauci.  So....you are wrong.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 13, 2020)

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/anthony-s-fauci-md-bio

Dr. Fauci was appointed director of NIAID in 1984. He oversees an extensive portfolio of basic and applied research to prevent, diagnose, and treat established infectious diseases such as HIV/AIDS, respiratory infections, diarrheal diseases, tuberculosis and malaria as well as emerging diseases such as Ebola and Zika. NIAID also supports research on transplantation and immune-related illnesses, including autoimmune disorders, asthma and allergies. The NIAID budget for fiscal year 2020 is an estimated $5.9 billion.

Dr. Fauci has advised six presidents on HIV/AIDS and many other domestic and global health issues. He was one of the principal architects of the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), a program that has saved millions of lives throughout the developing world.
Dr. Fauci also is the longtime chief of the Laboratory of Immunoregulation. He has made many contributions to basic and clinical research on the pathogenesis and treatment of immune-mediated and infectious diseases. He helped pioneer the field of human immunoregulation by making important basic scientific observations that underpin the current understanding of the regulation of the human immune response. In addition, Dr. Fauci is widely recognized for delineating the precise ways that immunosuppressive agents modulate the human immune response. He developed effective therapies for formerly fatal inflammatory and immune-mediated diseases such as polyarteritis nodosa, granulomatosis with polyangiitis (formerly Wegener's granulomatosis), and lymphomatoid granulomatosis. A 1985 Stanford University Arthritis Center Survey of the American Rheumatism Association membership ranked Dr. Fauci’s work on the treatment of polyarteritis nodosa and granulomatosis with polyangiitis among the most important advances in patient management in rheumatology over the previous 20 years.

Dr. Fauci has made seminal contributions to the understanding of how HIV destroys the body's defenses leading to its susceptibility to deadly infections. Further, he has been instrumental in developing treatments that enable people with HIV to live long and active lives. He continues to devote much of his research to the immunopathogenic mechanisms of HIV infection and the scope of the body's immune responses to HIV.
In a 2020 analysis of Google Scholar citations, Dr. Fauci ranked as the 41st most highly cited researcher of all time. According to the Web of Science, Dr. Fauci ranked 7th out of more than 1.8 million authors in the field of immunology by total citation count between 1980 and January 2020.
Dr. Fauci has delivered major lectures all over the world and is the recipient of numerous prestigious awards, including the Presidential Medal of Freedom (the highest honor given to a civilian by the President of the United States), the National Medal of Science, the George M. Kober Medal of the Association of American Physicians, the Mary Woodard Lasker Award for Public Service, the Albany Medical Center Prize in Medicine and Biomedical Research, the Robert Koch Gold Medal, the Prince Mahidol Award, and the Canada Gairdner Global Health Award.  He also has received 45 honorary doctoral degrees from universities in the United States and abroad.

Dr. Fauci is a member of the National Academy of Sciences, the National Academy of Medicine, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the American Philosophical Society, as well as other professional societies including the American College of Physicians, the American Society for Clinical Investigation, the Association of American Physicians, the Infectious Diseases Society of America, the American Association of Immunologists, and the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology. He serves on the editorial boards of many scientific journals; as an editor of _Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine_; and as author, coauthor, or editor of more than 1,300 scientific publications, including several textbooks.


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## bowmore (Sep 13, 2020)

Deleted-Becky beat me to it


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## AnnieA (Sep 13, 2020)

Fauci has an amazing CV, but--to reference the above meme--no one pitches a perfect game.   He (and the rest of the Western world) could've handled this so much better by implementing early mitigation strategies as soon as it was known in January that China totally lost control.  He was still supporting the cruise industry in March.


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## grahamg (Sep 13, 2020)

Nathan said:


> You are a funny person.     You go ahead and " fight", chase your fantasies or whatever makes you feel good about yourself.   I deal with the real world head on, because reality is the only thing I can sink my teeth in.


Don't forget the "real world" contains sophisticated countries like Sweden setting their own path over their response to this crisis, including resisting pressure to force a lockdown on their population, (pressure even coming from some of their doctors, but not all of them).


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## win231 (Sep 13, 2020)

Whatever Fauci says must be true, because.....
that man is a..........DOCTOR.


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## woof (Sep 14, 2020)

Seeing a lot of respondents on here saying that they intend the new normal to become normal for them, I have been reflecting on the idea that seems to be gaining increasing support.

That the older, higher risk members of the community, should be shielding and the rest should just be getting on with it as they please.

This would allow herd immunity to become reality fairly quickly, with a low cost of life.


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## chic (Sep 14, 2020)

macgeek said:


> tired of wearing masks and hearing the words "social distancing"... being alive is dangerous to our health... we can't possibly run or hide from every danger that comes along.. we can't live in fear forever... we can't cancel everything forever. I've pretty much had enough. this lock down has harmed more people including children and seniors probably more than anyone will ever know.



I agree and I


macgeek said:


> tired of wearing masks and hearing the words "social distancing"... being alive is dangerous to our health... we can't possibly run or hide from every danger that comes along.. we can't live in fear forever... we can't cancel everything forever. I've pretty much had enough. this lock down has harmed more people including children and seniors probably more than anyone will ever know.



I agree it has. In my state, we're more dead than alive. My fear is the government will use this and other incidents like it to totally control people. 

If they tell me I am responsible for someone else's health because I MIGHT have something that someone else MIGHT catch and that someone else MIGHT die, that's a road I do not even want to travel. Ultimately, I'm not responsible for someone else's health. I've been out through this whole pandemic, even the worst of it. If a person chooses an unhealthy lifestyle and eating habits, why should those of us with healthier immune systems because we embrace healthy lifestyles and nutrition be penalized with the loss of freedom.

This whole thing has gotten so out of hand and am I hallucinating or weren't we told back in March that we would only have to quarantine for 4 weeks to "flatten the curve" and get back to normal. Can we finally admit - they lied.


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## LindaB (Sep 14, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> I think he has a financial stake in vaccine development.
> 
> We're moving toward natural herd immunity with every case.


"Herd immunity" is a loooong way off.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 14, 2020)

woof said:


> Seeing a lot of respondents on here saying that they intend the new normal to become normal for them, I have been reflecting on the idea that seems to be gaining increasing support.
> 
> That the older, higher risk members of the community, should be shielding and the rest should just be getting on with it as they please.
> 
> This would allow herd immunity to become reality fairly quickly, with a low cost of life.



There is no guarantee of low cost of lives while trying to achieve herd immunity. 

Healthy individuals and some children who have had this virus are now suffering with long term health conditions.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 14, 2020)

chic said:


> I agree and I
> 
> 
> I agree it has. In my state, we're more dead than alive. My fear is the government will use this and other incidents like it to totally control people.
> ...



Not everyone with health conditions has or is living an unhealthy life style. There are many conditions that are hereditary, cancer doesn't care how healthy your lifestyle is and many more conditions don't either


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## fmdog44 (Sep 14, 2020)

So the vaccine is released what triggers businesses to allow people in their locations without masks? At what point does social distancing end? Will you trust the authorities to declare "all clear"? How many people get flu shots then get the flu?


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## Becky1951 (Sep 14, 2020)

"Will you trust the authorities to declare "all clear"?" 

*Nope!*


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 14, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> "Will you trust the authorities to declare "all clear"?"
> 
> *Nope!*


*Double nope for me.*


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## Kayelle (Sep 14, 2020)

A big resounding *NOPE* from me too.


To the principal *LIAR* in all this coverup. .......You finally admitted to all the *Lies *on tape in your own spoken words....*SHAME ON YOU.*...if I ever believe anything you say again...*SHAME ON ME.*


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 14, 2020)

Kayelle said:


> A big resounding *NOPE* from me too.
> 
> 
> To the principal *LIAR* in all this coverup. .......You finally admitted to all the *Lies *on tape in your own spoken words....*SHAME ON YOU.*...if I ever believe anything you say again...*SHAME ON ME.*


A *triple nope*!


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## Leann (Sep 14, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> The ONLY reason so many people trust Dr. Fauci is because he seems to be in opposition to the president. I mean, he's a radiologist, not an epidemiologist. So....


No, he's not a radiologist. He graduated first in his class from Cornell and has always worked in infectious diseases.


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## tbeltrans (Sep 14, 2020)

I think (not stating fact, but instead observation) that there are some things that will be forever changed as a result of the COVID-19 situation:

1. Possibly, more people will stock up on non-perishable items and those items that have a long shelf life, just as we typically do in climates where snow storms or hurricanes are a good possibility.
2. There might be more people routinely working from home, now that IT departments have adjusted for doing so in large numbers during the COVID-19 situation.
3. Students may have the option in many learning situations to school from home since those IT departments have had to adjust for the COVID-19 situation.
4. Online shipping has been fast-forwarded due to the COVID-19 situation so that it has become the norm for many more people.

Possible positive side effects of this could be:

1. Lower gas usage due to lower traffic, along with less environmental impact of combustion engines.
2. Less road stress and rage due to lower traffic volumes.
3. Home schooling may have many opportunities to socialize through taking classes online.
4. Many more people may have chances to take classes by doing so online.  This was already well underway before COVID- 19, but may be accelerated because the various IT services have been seriously tested and brought up to speed to cope with the increased internet traffic during COVID-19.
5. With so much online shopping, we may see far fewer fisticuffs at Walmart and similar stores during Black Friday events.

In short, I think the COVID-19 situation has changed the way we will continue to do daily things in many ways, not all of which are negative and which probably won't be affected by whether a vaccine or other medical advancement is found for COVID-19.  Many of these changes were already underway, but just accelerated by the introduction of COVID-19 measures.

Tony


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## Kayelle (Sep 14, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> I think (not stating fact, but instead observation) that there are some things that will be forever changed as a result of the COVID-19 situation:
> 
> 1. Possibly, more people will stock up on non-perishable items and those items that have a long shelf life, just as we typically do in climates where snow storms or hurricanes are a good possibility.
> 2. There might be more people routinely working from home, now that IT departments have adjusted for doing so in large numbers during the COVID-19 situation.
> ...


What a concise and well thought out post Tony. You have certainly made many valid possible outcomes when this whole thing is said and done.
There was a time when I doubted anything good could ever come of this nightmare, but now you've given me lots to think about, and thank you.

Yes, I'll be thrilled when we are able to travel safely again and I can hug and smile with anyone I choose (what I've missed the most). I accept the fact that some things will never be the same post-Covid, but that this life that we know now, may turn out to be better in some ways than pre-Covid.

Hope is everything.


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## Lakeland living (Sep 14, 2020)

Herd immunity or herd culling? 
interesting , only one line shows up...hmmmmm


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## tbeltrans (Sep 14, 2020)

Kayelle said:


> What a concise and well thought out post Tony. You have certainly made many valid possible outcomes when this whole thing is said and done.
> There was a time when I doubted anything good could ever come of this nightmare, but now you've given me lots to think about, and thank you.
> 
> Yes, I'll be thrilled when we are able to travel safely again and I can hug and smile with anyone I choose (what I've missed the most). I accept the fact that some things will never be the same post-Covid, but that this life that we know now, may turn out to be better in some ways than pre-Covid.
> ...



Thank you Kayelle!  After reading so much about the problems caused by the COVID-19 situation, I figured there had to be a silver lining somewhere. 

Tony


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## Nathan (Sep 14, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> Overstating it a bit, don't you think? And Nathan said to "get comfortable" with it. To me, that's giving up. And giving in.



@"CarolfromTX,    Talk about overstating, you misconstrued what I said, give it an entirely different meaning, and trudged off like you had good sense.

People:    All I'm saying is don't foolishly wish for the past that you may not be able to re-visit, just be* real *and move on, don't cry over spilled milk.


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## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 14, 2020)

> "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)



If you ever wondered just how quickly and easily the government could control you, just take a look around. Many of you are scared out of your minds.  I go about my business and will abandon masks just as quickly as possible. I didn't wear one until I had to. I have stopped doing nothing. If I can go there, I go. I would not be at all surprised to learn I've already had it. Everyone in my family is considered essential and we all go to work and have since it started. My daughter, in a lab at U of M. My wife, school librarian and caregiver to our grandkids. My daughter, a nurse in the women's prison system. My SIL a shipping store assistant manager dealing with customers, and has Type I diabetes. If I die from it, I die from it. I consider in no greater risk than any other virus. 

Consider if you will, that the CDC's recent release of death rates shows that 6% of the total deaths reported died from COVID alone. That means about 10,000 total. The average death had 2.6 comorbidities. Read that again: The average person who died and tested positive with COVID had over 2 other things wrong with them. There is even a listing of over 5,000 people who died from "intentional and unintentional poisoning and other accidents." All listed under COVID deaths. Really?

Fauci:

"Don't wear masks, they don't do any good."
"Wearing masks protects you."
"Wearing masks isn't that effective, but it helps us feel solidarity, like we're in it together."
"Wearing masks protects others."

Which is it? Fauci hasn't been in medicine for over 4 decades. He has been on the government dole in an administrative position. There are many experts who remain active in the field that disagree with him.  

Nah, I'm out. I am not buying the hype. Now, does that mean I think it's a farce? Not at all. There are some people who should take precautions, just like any other virus. There are others who need to take care of those people. These people need to use caution. Wear masks, sanitize, be careful. They should be doing whatever they feel is necessary to protect themselves. But I do not need the government to protect me, thanks. I am a capable, responsible adult. I can handle it myself.


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## win231 (Sep 14, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> If you ever wondered just how quickly and easily the government could control you, just take a look around. Many of you are scared out of your minds.  I go about my business and will abandon masks just as quickly as possible. I didn't wear one until I had to. I have stopped doing nothing. If I can go there, I go. I would not be at all surprised to learn I've already had it. Everyone in my family is considered essential and we all go to work and have since it started. My daughter, in a lab at U of M. My wife, school librarian and caregiver to our grandkids. My daughter, a nurse in the women's prison system. My SIL a shipping store assistant manager dealing with customers, and has Type I diabetes. If I die from it, I die from it. I consider in no greater risk than any other virus.
> 
> Consider if you will, that the CDC's recent release of death rates shows that 6% of the total deaths reported died from COVID alone. That means about 10,000 total. The average death had 2.6 comorbidities. Read that again: The average person who died and tested positive with COVID had over 2 other things wrong with them. There is even a listing of over 5,000 people who died from "intentional and unintentional poisoning and other accidents." All listed under COVID deaths. Really?
> 
> ...


Right up there with ya.  I also have stopped going nowhere - unless it's closed.  I only wear a mask while shopping - because I have to, not because it "protects" me.  I visit all my friends & they visit me - some are in their mid '80's.  I also have diabetes & am over 60.  So do all the people in my diabetes support group meetings - age 70-83, along with other health issues that go with aging.

Anyone who thinks differently, is more frightened, is entitled to be as cautious or restrictive as they want; I don't have a problem with them.
BUT, when they spout off about how I'm "Putting others at risk," I'll laugh, just as I laugh when I hear some idiot say, "I should get a flu shot to protect others."


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## peramangkelder (Sep 14, 2020)

I doubt any thinking person's life will go back the way it was B.C. (Before Covid) 
We can speculate all we want and someone will eventually produce a vaccine
We know so much about Covid19....except the real kicker....how do we stop it?
This reminds me of how thing were when the AIDS epidemic was at it's height
10 questions and only 9 answers


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## Kayelle (Sep 14, 2020)

tbeltrans said:


> Thank you Kayelle!  After reading so much about the problems caused by the COVID-19 situation, I figured there had to be a silver lining somewhere.
> 
> Tony


And it's understood Tony....we should take a lesson from the UK during WW2......."Keep calm and carry on" Winston Churchill, a true leader who never lied to the people.


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## tbeltrans (Sep 14, 2020)

Kayelle said:


> And it's understood Tony....we should take a lesson from the UK during WW2......."Keep calm and carry on" Winston Churchill, a true leader who never lied to the people.



I like that!

Tony


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## Lakeland living (Sep 14, 2020)

I have to say that I have changed little during the pandemic, so far anyway.  I do wear a face shield and gloves when out running errands. I hate crowds and avoid them anyway, shopping is done at several different times ...again to avoid crowds.
   I keep an eye  / ear to some of the news and take care of my business. Most of the people around here keep their distance etc.  I have noticed that there are cottagers up here still and many are planning to stay  through a winter up here. Many are not insulated , no winter water etc. They all have been very peaceful, quiet ...at least on this lake.
    I am hoping they have the sense to leave before it is too late.
"Keep calm and carry on" Winston Churchill said...  It works.  Thanks Kayelle


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## Kayelle (Sep 14, 2020)

peramangkelder said:


> I doubt any thinking person's life will go back the way it was B.C. (Before Covid)
> We can speculate all we want and someone will eventually produce a vaccine
> We know so much about Covid19....except the real kicker....how do we stop it?
> This reminds me of how thing were when the AIDS epidemic was at it's height
> 10 questions and only 9 answers



The last actual pandemic in this country was with the Spanish flu in 1918 where thousand died like flies, and very quickly.  Read about it. I was a late in life baby, and my Mom was 10 yrs old in 1918. When I was a child, she told me many stories about the deaths within her family then, and they've been burned into my memory all my life.
This is now the second recent world pandemic and she must be horrified that I'm seeing her nightmare yet again.


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## grahamg (Sep 14, 2020)

win231 said:


> Right up there with ya.  I also have stopped going nowhere - unless it's closed.  I only wear a mask while shopping - because I have to, not because it "protects" me.  I visit all my friends & they visit me - some are in their mid '80's.  I also have diabetes & am over 60.  So do all the people in my diabetes support group meetings - age 70-83, along with other health issues that go with aging.
> 
> Anyone who thinks differently, is more frightened, is entitled to be as cautious or restrictive as they want; I don't have a problem with them.
> BUT, when they spout off about how I'm "Putting others at risk," I'll laugh, just as I laugh when I hear some idiot say, "I should get a flu shot to protect others."


I'm largely with you so far as this pandemic goes but I can accept taking a vaccine, when one becomes available to protect against Covid 19, and of course you do need a fairly high up take of any vaccine to ensure the virus or whatever infectious agent cant circulate easily in the population.

I'm no where near as sceptical about vaccines as so many on the forum appear to be, though would want to know a new vaccine was as safe as those licencing believe it to be, (does that sound convoluted thinking or just naive, if it does so be it?).


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## Butterfly (Sep 15, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> I knew on January 24th that the world was about to get slammed because highly contagious respiratory viruses plus commercial airline speeds of 460 – 575 miles per hour do not add up to anything other than a pandemic.   Either a) I'm smarter than Fauci, or b) he's a liar.  I'm pretty sure "*a)*" is the wrong answer...
> 
> *24 January 2020*
> 
> ...



I disagree strongly with your assertions about Dr. Fauci.


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## Sunny (Sep 19, 2020)

Here's a summary of Dr. Fauci's professional qualifications:

*Anthony Stephen Fauci* ( /ˈfaʊtʃi/; born December 24, 1940) is an American physician and immunologist who has served as the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) since 1984. Since January 2020, he has been one of the lead members of the Trump administration's White House Coronavirus Task Force addressing the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States. Fauci is one of the world's leading experts on infectious diseases, and during the early stages of the pandemic _The New Yorker_ and _The New York Times_ described Fauci as one of the most trusted medical figures in the United States.[1][2][3][4]

As a physician with the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Fauci has served American public health in various capacities for more than 50 years, and has been an advisor to every U.S. president since Ronald Reagan.[3] He has made contributions to HIV/AIDS research and other immunodeficiency diseases, both as a scientist and as the head of the NIAID at the NIH.[5] From 1983 to 2002, Fauci was one of the world's most frequently-cited scientists across all scientific journals.[5]

Carol, where did you get that idea that he is a radiologist?

And for those who seem to be claiming that they are smarter and know more about this than Dr. Fauci, what are your professional qualifications?


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## win231 (Sep 19, 2020)

Sunny said:


> Here's a summary of Dr. Fauci's professional qualifications:
> 
> *Anthony Stephen Fauci* ( /ˈfaʊtʃi/; born December 24, 1940) is an American physician and immunologist who has served as the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) since 1984. Since January 2020, he has been one of the lead members of the Trump administration's White House Coronavirus Task Force addressing the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States. Fauci is one of the world's leading experts on infectious diseases, and during the early stages of the pandemic _The New Yorker_ and _The New York Times_ described Fauci as one of the most trusted medical figures in the United States.[1][2][3][4]
> 
> ...


"Professional Qualifications" do not mean someone is never wrong, always tells the truth & knows everything.

Here are another doctor's professional qualifications who killed his patient.  (see if they impress you):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Murray
In 1973, Murray moved to Houston, Texas, where his father worked, to attend Texas Southern University, and graduated Magna cum laude with a degree in pre-med and biological sciences. Murray continued his education at Meharry Medical College, in Nashville, Tennessee, the same school his father attended, and the first school in the South for African Americans.[_citation needed_] He began his internal medicine residency at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Murray completed it at the Loma Linda University Medical Center in California. He then completed a cardiology fellowship at the University of Arizona.[1] 
Murray worked at the Sharp Memorial Hospital in San Diego as an associate director of its cardiology fellowship training program. In 1990, he opened a private practice in Las Vegas. In 2006, he founded the Acres Homes Heart and Vascular Institute in Houston. Murray met Michael Jackson in 2006, in Las Vegas, and treated his daughter Paris when she fell ill. Jackson hired Murray to be his exclusive personal physician prior to his tour in July 2009.[1] Jackson insisted that Murray be employed by his show promoter, AEG Live, for $150,000 monthly.

Another doctor with "Professional Qualifications:"  (serving 45 years in prison)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farid_Fata
Fata was born in Lebanon in 1965, to a Melkite Catholic family. After obtaining a medical degree there in 1992, he emigrated to the United States to begin his medical career. He served a residency at Maimonides Medical Center in Brooklyn from 1993 to 1996. From 1996 to 1999, he was a fellow in hematology-oncology at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in Manhattan. He was an attending physician at Geisinger Medical Center in Danville, Pennsylvania from 2000 to 2003.
He struck out on his own in 2003, opening Michigan Hematology-Oncology (MHO) in Rochester Hills, Michigan. Over the next decade, it grew to seven locations throughout Metro Detroit—in Rochester Hills, Bloomfield Hills, Clarkston, Sterling Heights, Troy, Lapeer and Oak Park.[4] He became a naturalized U.S. citizen in April 2009.[5]
Fata specialized in treating blood cancer. He owned his own lab, pharmacy and radiation treatment facility. At his height, he was treating 17,000 patients at his clinics. He acquired a sterling reputation as one of the best cancer specialists in Metro Detroit. He was known for his aggressive approach, which gave higher doses of chemo drugs more frequently—a protocol he called "European protocol".[1]
Fata's wife, Samar, helped run the business side of his practice as Chief Executive Officer and Chief Financial Officer of his companies.[6] She moved back to Lebanon after her husband's arrest; they have since divorced.[1]


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