# The Statistics of Coronavirus Death Are Wrong



## Mike (Apr 3, 2020)

I keep saying that they not factual!

The number of people quoted as having died is true,
but only the fact that they are dead, what they died of is
something else entirely.

Every death in my opinion is credited to Corona Virus, this
I maintain is the wrong thing to do, it being done to scare
us into following suggestions/orders that we stay home and
not mix with others.

A famous, here a long time ago, comedian was in hospital in
Bristol with a serious heart problem, from which he died last
night, the report said that he died "With Corona Virus", not
"of or because of", but with. This caused a debate on the radio,
the hospital confirmed the he died because of the serious heart
condition, with Corona Virus, they said that they checked after
he died and found that the virus was present.

So since the panic started I believe that they are inflating the
causes of death, but not the figures.

The comedian was Eddie Large, of "L:Ittle & Large", the other
half is Sid LIttle.

Mike.


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## Capt Lightning (Apr 3, 2020)

You're probably quite correct Mike.  I have seen articles suggesting that there is a considerable overlap between those dying OF Covid-19 and those who would have died anyway but who also had the virus.


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## Ronni (Apr 3, 2020)

It’s a debatable point.  I've read a bunch of articles about this very thing.  Those who have pre-existing health conditions enter the hospital with a spike in their condition, they die, they're found to have the virus. Or they have the virus, their chronic health condition worsens as a result, they die.  So what killed them?  The virus which complicated their chronic health condition, or their chronic health condition which finally got the best of them? 

I read one article from a doctor who was vehement in his statement that he's a doctor, not God.  And in the face of this virus, sometimes he just doesn't know if the patient would have lived had they not been positive for Covid-19, or would have died regardless. 

Also.  Common sense tells me that once the information passes from the medical authorities into the hands of the CDC folks or whoever is tallying the official count of Covid-19 mortalities, the interpretation of the data is out of the Medical staff's hands.  The Doctor reports that Patient A has X condition, is positive for Covid-19, and has organ failure resulting in death.  Because the virus is present, that information is reported to the CDC.  So does the CDC count that death as a Virus death or not?  There's just no telling, because the Doctor can only give Cause Of Death as organ failure with virus involvement (I'm using broad examples here so allow me some latitude please.)  

Honestly, I don't see how ANY statistical reporting of the kind the OP is talking about can be completely factual.  I think we can interpret the data in broad strokes only and take what information we can from that.


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## rgp (Apr 3, 2020)

Mike said:


> I keep saying that they not factual!
> 
> The number of people quoted as having died is true,
> but only the fact that they are dead, what they died of is
> ...




Was talking to a neighbor/nurse just last night, and she was telling me the same thing.

   What the hell is the purpose of this? Why would they be seemingly trying to inflate the numbers?

_They _[various officials] are not helping themselves, the conspiracy theorists just use this sort of thing as ammunition for their agenda.


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## win231 (Apr 3, 2020)

They do that with anything they're trying to scare us with.  I'm not sure why, but it usually has something to do with money.
People are easily frightened - especially when a "Professional" person with lots of letters after their name says it & most people tend to believe whatever they say.
To sell full body scans, the commercial starts with a body on a steel slab with a toe tag on it.
To sell statins, they'll have a guy talk about his heart attack & how the drugs could have prevented it.
To sell home warranties.......
To sell extra car repair warranties...


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## Buckeye (Apr 3, 2020)

{shrug} po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe.  If COVID19 gets into my system, and because I am over 70, diabetic, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, etc, and I die, who is to say which killed me?  And, do I care?    What would you prefer, potentially understating the risk or potentially overstating them?   Right now, anything that encourages folks to follow the mandated protocols is a good thing.


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## 911 (Apr 3, 2020)

Here in Pennsylvania, when possible, blood is drawn when death occurs. A toxicology is run and because we are in a pandemic, a test for viruses would be done. This is done why? A little thing called “statistics.”


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## Ruthanne (Apr 3, 2020)

This is all very interesting!  Gave me a lot to think on.  Thanks to you all.


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## win231 (Apr 3, 2020)

Every flu season, they pull this crap to overcome the lack of interest in useless flu shots.  And this occurs frequently:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/family-12-year-girl-died-misdiagnosed-flu/story?id=52258240


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## Ken N Tx (Apr 3, 2020)

Capt Lightning said:


> You're probably quite correct Mike.  I have seen articles suggesting that there is a considerable overlap between those dying OF Covid-19 and those who would have died anyway but who also had the virus.





Ruthanne said:


> This is all very interesting!  Gave me a lot to think on.  Thanks to you all.


Same as above...


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## rgp (Apr 3, 2020)

So by your logic,


Buckeye said:


> {shrug} po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe.  If COVID19 gets into my system, and because I am over 70, diabetic, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, etc, and I die, who is to say which killed me?  And, do I care?    What would you prefer, potentially understating the risk or potentially overstating them?   Right now, anything that encourages folks to follow the mandated protocols is a good thing.



  So by that logic, officials, & or the media lying to the public is OK?


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## Buckeye (Apr 3, 2020)

rgp said:


> So by your logic,
> 
> 
> So by that logic, officials, & or the media lying to the public is OK?


{sigh} show me in my post were I said it was okay to lie.  I'll wait.


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## rgp (Apr 3, 2020)

Buckeye said:


> {sigh} show me in my post were I said it was okay to lie.  I'll wait.




Note the ? mark......I was asking, not accusing......oh wait, I forgot the sigh of disgust....I'll add mine at the end......._{sigh}._


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## Buckeye (Apr 3, 2020)

rgp said:


> Note the ? mark......I was asking, not accusing......oh wait, I forgot the sigh of disgust....I'll add mine at the end......._{sigh}._


Sorry, but you can't unsay what you said.  And of course, you can't find anything in my post suggesting that it was okay to lie to the public.


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## RadishRose (Apr 3, 2020)

Mike said:


> it being done to scare
> us into following suggestions/orders that we stay home and
> not mix with others.


Why would they do that?


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 3, 2020)

I understand what Mike is saying.  I always felt that way about the reports from the CDC every year of deaths from the flu.  Many of those people who die, actually die from pneumonia, often due to lung conditions which compromise their health.  An average person with healthy lungs, probably wouldn't have "died from the flu".  It may just be a way to encourage people to get annual flu shots.



> US data on influenza deaths are false and misleading. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) acknowledges a difference between flu death and flu associated death yet uses the terms interchangeably. Additionally, there are significant statistical incompatibilities between official estimates and national vital statistics data. Compounding these problems is a marketing of fear—a CDC communications strategy in which medical experts "predict dire outcomes" during flu seasons.
> 
> The CDC website states what has become commonly accepted and widely reported in the lay and scientific press: annually "about 36 000 [Americans] die from flu" (www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease.htm) and "influenza/pneumonia" is the seventh leading cause of death in the United States (www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm).
> 
> ...





https://aspe.hhs.gov/cdc-—-influenza-deaths-request-correction-rfc


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## Judycat (Apr 3, 2020)

What's really strange is how, before this, medical docs, psychologists, and sociologists were warning everyone on the hazards of isolating oneself. Don't isolate. Isolating is unhealthy, isolating may cause dementia, isolating will lead to an early death. We are social creatures after all. 

Gah! Now it's best thing we can do. Hey, get in the habit of social distancing, better yet, stay home. Don't go out if you want to live. Ha, it is so bizarre.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2020)

I would like to see which pile of reports a death is 
put say if that person was killed by a bus or a car
while crossing the road, then when examined it
is found that he/she has corona virus! Would it
go in the "Traffic" pile or in the "Virus" one?

I know that is a bit over the top, but worth thinking
about.

Mike.


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## IrisSenior (Apr 4, 2020)

Who cares what they are dying of? People are dying and I would rather be safe not sorry. I WORRY everyday, EVERYDAY as both my sons are working in grocery stores. I wish I could tell them to stay home? If I did who would help others at the grocery store (we all have to eat) and the burden would be transferred to others. In the meantime PEOPLE are DYING. Stay HOME.


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## Liberty (Apr 4, 2020)

911 said:


> Here in Pennsylvania, when possible, blood is drawn when death occurs. A toxicology is run and because we are in a pandemic, a test for viruses would be done. This is done why? A little thing called “statistics.”


Very true here also...blood is drawn and the cause of death determination is made from the tox report.


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## Judycat (Apr 4, 2020)

IrisSenior said:


> Who cares what they are dying of? People are dying and I would rather be safe not sorry. I WORRY everyday, EVERYDAY as both my sons are working in grocery stores. I wish I could tell them to stay home? If I did who would help others at the grocery store (we all have to eat) and the burden would be transferred to others. In the meantime PEOPLE are DYING. Stay HOME.


Don't worry, I'm not going out dancing anytime soon.  It's difficult for everyone and some are just letting off steam. 

My one adopted grandchild is disabled and on a permanent vent. He won't last long if the virus enters his home, neither will his two sisters who are also severely disabled. Their dad, my son, has asthma and uses a steroid every day to control it. He works out of state part of the week, then comes home for three days. He can't just stop working, his health insurance is vital. This family is set up for devastation.  

I know, I worry how the virus kills people too, but sometimes I need a vacation into absurdity to keep from losing what's left of my mind.


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## win231 (Apr 4, 2020)

Yeah..... "Statistics."
They pull the same B.S. whenever they want us to believe something.


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## Capt Lightning (Apr 5, 2020)

The UK stats are really odd. There appears to  hundreds of new cases, hundreds dying, but nobody getting better. It would seem that only those referred to hospital and tested are recorded as having the virus, anyone dying (of any cause) while having the virus is recorded, but people recovering are not.

There are probably thousands, if not millions,  of people with a very mild infection who just pass it off as a cold and get better.   I doubt if anyone really knows what's happening.


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## Mike (Apr 5, 2020)

Without test Capt., there are no records, they did in the
past week mention two people who have recovered, but
I was thinking that to get taken to hospital here with it is
too late as you past the point of no return, the NHS keep
telling family members that the sick person is not sick enough
to get an ambulance, just keep them warm give them lots of
fluids and paracetamols!

I think that they have a check sheet with X number of things
that could be wrong and they are not sick enough if all are
not ticked.

Mike.


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## Ken N Tx (Apr 5, 2020)




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## Mike (Apr 5, 2020)

If they use those statistics Ken, nobody would
stay at home!

That is what the Governments are afraid of.

Mike.


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## rgp (Apr 5, 2020)

Buckeye said:


> Sorry, but you can't unsay what you said.  And of course, you can't find anything in my post suggesting that it was okay to lie to the public.





Buckeye said:


> Sorry, but you can't unsay what you said.  And of course, you can't find anything in my post suggesting that it was okay to lie to the public.





  Again, I didn't 'say' anything, I asked you a question about your logic [or lack of] and how it applies.


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## WhatInThe (Apr 5, 2020)

911 said:


> Here in Pennsylvania, when possible, blood is drawn when death occurs. A toxicology is run and because we are in a pandemic, a test for viruses would be done. This is done why? A little thing called “statistics.”


That's what they should do. A positive test hopefully prior to passing should be matched against each death. Part of the issue with the numbers it's hard to tell what stage of the virus a person might have tested positive ie a person might actually have beaten the virus but had complications from something else.


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## Happyflowerlady (Apr 5, 2020)

Here is an interesting little chart. It shows the amount of deaths from pneumonia for the last several years.  Amazingly...... when we get to the last couple of months......... no more pneumonia deaths ! 
They just fell off of the proverbial cliff, so to speak. 
That kind of gives you the idea that maybe pneumonia deaths (which are fairly common for elderly people, or those with health/lung issues) have suddenly stopped being counted as such, and are now being counted as CV-19 deaths instead.


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## win231 (Apr 5, 2020)

An example of "Cause of Death" statistics:
In 2017, an actor - Mike Connors - ("Mannix") died.  He was 91, which is a pretty long life span.
His cause of death was listed as "Leukemia."
After that many years, our immune system is not working as well as when we were young.....along with everything else.  At some point, it is no longer able to control the growth of cancer cells, which we all have in our bodies.  At that age, we also can't tolerate the toxic treatment - which is why they referred to his cancer as "Not Treatable" which means the treatment would cause death. 
Same with someone whose balance is bad & causes falls - which are sometimes fatal in older people; due to the fall or pneumonia from lying in bed during a longer recovery, which causes fluid buildup in the older, tired lungs - which have been filtering impurities for many years.
The term: "Natural Causes" is rarely listed as the cause of death; even though that's what it usually was.

We all gotta die of something; we aren't designed to live forever.


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## Buckeye (Apr 5, 2020)

I trust the numbers from the US systems, given that the actual cause of death is not always so cut and dried, but globally, it seems that the big issue is underreporting.  Here's a link to one website about it.  A google search will give you more.

Reporting COVID 19 cases and deaths


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## Buckeye (Apr 5, 2020)

And here is a link that explains the difference between manner of death (there are only 5 choices) and cause of death.  In the Mike Connor case, the Manner of death would have been "Natural" and the Cause would be "Leukemia" or something else.  Leukemia is a natural cause.  If I shoot myself and die, Manner of death could be either Suicide or Accident, Cause would vary based on where the bullet struck.  If you shoot me in the same spot, the manner would be Homicide, but the Cause would be the same.  

And sometimes the Manner can not be determined, even though the Cause is clear.  Did I shoot myself on purpose or by accident or did you shoot me?  I dunno, so the Manner of death is Undetermined.  

It is not an exact science.  Life and death are messy.

Manner and Cause of Death


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## todalake (Apr 5, 2020)

Trillions spent and trillions lost and millions now unemployed around the world and you think it is being overstated!   Do you think the global community would actually do that if it wasn't real?


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## WhatInThe (Apr 5, 2020)

Apparently the CDC guidelines tell hospitals to list covid-19 as the cause of death even though it may have only contributed to a person passing with other issues.

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/...id-cause-death-even-just-assuming-contributed

From a memo on policy/'guidance' dated March 24


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## Buckeye (Apr 6, 2020)

And another story about how it is being unreported.....

Underreporting

Either way, stay home and wash your hands.


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## fmdog44 (Apr 6, 2020)

Ken N Tx said:


>


Source??


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## fmdog44 (Apr 6, 2020)

As far as posting opinions on this subject or any other subject keep in mind the documented certified qualifications of posters or lack of them. What separates this subject from others is the fact that parts of this virus are new or unknown to the experts in the medical field. Second, we are dealing with the potential of death related to this subject. We are free to choose to believe what we will but I will caution on the safe side and continue to take the advice of the experts and laugh off people that expound their theories based on nothing but hot air which is a polite way of saying "gas."


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