# What was the Nazi war plans after they conquered Russia?



## fuzzybuddy (Apr 16, 2019)

The Nazis had plans to conquer most of Europe and a chunk of Russia by 1941-42. Rommel's forces were hoped to capture the Suez canal and march through the Middle East and connect up in Southern Russia. These plans supposed that all would go remarkably well for the Nazis. I often wondered what were the military plans the Nazis drew up *after* they knocked off eastern Russia? I don't believe the Nazis wouldn't have had some fantastic world domination plan.


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 16, 2019)

I suspect it was what most conquerors have always wanted - to plunder the resources of the conquered lands and to establish  defendable new trade routes for their shipping etc.


----------



## Olivia (Apr 16, 2019)

Here's a view:



> When Pearl Harbor happened, we [Roosevelt's advisors] were desperate. ... We were all in agony. The mood of the American people was obvious – they were determined that the Japanese had to be punished. We could have been forced to concentrate all our efforts on the Pacific, unable from then on to give more than purely peripheral help to Britain.* It was truly astounding when Hitler declared war on us three days later. *Icannot tell you our feelings of triumph. It was a totally irrational thing for him to do, and I think it saved Europe."[SUP][6]
> [/SUP]
> ​Hitler's reasons for declaring war against the US when he was not obligated to were numerous. One was an emotional response: the Japanese tactic of using a surprise attack without making a declaration of war appealed to him – he had done the same thing when he attacked the Soviet Union with Operation Barbarossa in June 1941; indeed, he told the Japanese ambassador "[O]ne should strike – as hard as possible – and not waste time declaring war."[SUP][2][/SUP] Also, the prospect of a worldwide war fed Hitler's tendency towards grandiose thinking, and reinforced his feeling that he was a world-historical figure of destiny. *As he said in his declaration speech to the Reichstag:
> 
> ...


----------



## Aunt Bea (Apr 16, 2019)




----------



## oldman (Apr 16, 2019)

Not sure, but I think that we can all be very glad Germany didn’t prevail.


----------



## RadishRose (Apr 16, 2019)

Olivia, that all made sense to me. We were torn as to whether risk our young men to help Europe, even when stricken by the Japanese, when it was Hitler after all who declared war on us as you say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

Tells of the Master Plan for the east in ethnic cleansing and genocides. It's all there.


----------



## rgp (Apr 16, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> Olivia, that all made sense to me. We were torn as to whether risk our young men to help Europe, even when stricken by the Japanese, when it was Hitler after all who declared war on us as you say.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
> 
> Tells of the Master Plan for the east in ethnic cleansing and genocides. It's all there.




 While Hitler declared war on us.....words.....it was Japan that attacked us!


----------



## rgp (Apr 16, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> Olivia, that all made sense to me. We were torn as to whether risk our young men to help Europe, even when stricken by the Japanese, when it was Hitler after all who declared war on us as you say.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
> 
> Tells of the Master Plan for the east in ethnic cleansing and genocides. It's all there.



And there are still those that claim it never happened........


----------



## Olivia (Apr 16, 2019)

rgp said:


> And there are still those that claim it never happened........



Sure. But that's a whole other probably not allowed topic.


----------



## fmdog44 (Apr 16, 2019)

It was Churchills happiest moment when Hitler declared war on America. I often wonder what Hitlers's generals were saying under their breathe after that.


----------



## fuzzybuddy (Apr 17, 2019)

The US was inching closer to entering the European war by early 1942.  While pubic opinion in the US hadn't  yet fully shifted, the Nazis had sunk  US Naval ships. There was no way we could remain "neutral" and still  provide massive infusions of supplies and arms to the UK and USSR. That was FDR's plan.  The US dramatically began to beef up its military  starting in 1938. War  was inevitable.  By declaring war on the US, Hitler now could let his uboats freely attack  the US shipping lifeline to the UK.

I wonder what was the Nazi plan when the USSR was disposed of? What or who was next in their path?


----------



## Rosemarie (Apr 17, 2019)

It is interesting to speculate about how things would have turned out if Hitler had not been defeated. Germany had brilliant scientists who were developing more advanced weapons, including nuclear and biological. The German army was well-disciplined and well-trained. In fact, it was like a repeat of the Romans. The Americans provided us with the manpower and money to defeat them, but I think, like the Romans, the Germans over-stretched themselves, and Hitler didn't learn from Napoleons mistake when he attacked Russia.


----------



## oldman (Apr 17, 2019)

Germany declared war on the U.S. four days after Pearl Harbor. In return, the U.S. then declared war on Germany. My Dad fought in WWII in France, but it was very difficult to get him to talk about his experiences, other than how cold he was all the time. Growing up with my Dad, I can positively say that we were never cold in my house. Dad would raise Cain if we left a light on in a room that nobody was in, but if we jacked up the heat because we said that we were cold or even chilly, he never said a word.


----------



## DGM (Apr 17, 2019)

For those of you who never read "Winds of War" I recommend doing so.  Great book
Three years ago while watching AMC a WWII told a very interesting story:  He was a major in the Army.  In 1945 he was in charge of a large group of German POWs. A German officer approached him and after saluting asked very casually as to where the major was from in the states.  When the major told him he was from Bridgeport CN the kraut was amazed and said that he had been trained to be the burgermeister of that area when the US surrendered to Germany.  He then displayed his vast knowledge of the Bridgeport area. 
I did some reading on the subject and Hitler was confident that he'd have the army to do this after the Brits and the Russians joined his ranks.  Scary stuff.  Unfortunately there was no way FDR could convince the American public that it was much more than just a Europen conflict in 1941.


----------



## rgp (Apr 17, 2019)

Olivia said:


> Sure. But that's a whole other probably not allowed topic.




 Well, my father was in Europe in WWII , he was in the outfit that liberated Dachau. I have a few pics he took, he told me what he saw...It happened!


----------



## rgp (Apr 17, 2019)

fmdog44 said:


> It was Churchills happiest moment when Hitler declared war on America. I often wonder what Hitlers's generals were saying under their breathe after that.



 There are rumors that Churchill literally danced around his office when the Jap's bombed Pearl. He knew that, that would at the very least draw us into the war in the Pacific. And likely Europe as well.......


----------



## fmdog44 (Apr 17, 2019)

Let's not forget Hitler's health both physical and mental. His popularity was diminishing. His military had long beieved he was wrong on most of his calls and knew the war was lost long before it was official. The Luftwaffe was no more, the industrial power to make war was wiped out by constant bombing by British and American air power. The ground forces were decimated and demoralized. So it is impossible to try to imagine what might have been if Hitler would have won because the formula dictated he never had a chance of winning.


----------



## DGM (Apr 17, 2019)

I've been to Dachau.  I've had the honor of meeting tattoed survivors.  Just mention of "it never happened" raises my blood pressure.


----------



## KingsX (Apr 18, 2019)

.

Remember the woman who claimed she was Tsar Nicholas II's daughter, Anastasia,   who [she said] escaped the horrific Bolshevik murder of the Romanov royal family ??

She also claimed to have met with Hitler and [she said] he planned to restore the Romanov throne.

While she might have been looney-tunes...

It is a fact that many Tsarist Russians [including the archbishop of the "Russian Orthodox Church in Exile" headquartered in Belgrade, Serbia]  did support Hitler's overthrown of Bolshevik Russia... and many Russians [including Cossacks] also fought along side Germans to try to liberate their homeland from the Bolsheviks.


----------



## fmdog44 (Apr 18, 2019)

I think I heard this right. Hitler's three brothers before him died very early. Then he was born and survived. Next, the child after him died young. If only one of the ones that died could have been him instead.


----------



## KingsX (Apr 18, 2019)

.

Through the centuries, many Russian Tsars married German princesses.   

When German Princess Catherine the Great  ruled Russia,  she encouraged Germans to settle in  Russian lands.

The last Tsar of Russia,  Nicholas II,  was mostly Germanic. He was the cousin of both Kaiser Wilhelm II and King George V.

Ironically,  the decisive battle of the war happened near Stalingrad [Volgograd]  which had been populated by the Volga Germans before Stalin forcibly removed the Germans eastward at the beginning of the war, killing thousands of them in the process.

.


----------



## KingsX (Apr 18, 2019)

.

Putin also has interesting German connections.  

Putin was a KGB officer in East Germany when the Berlin Wall fell.  His [ex] wife was born in Russian Kaliningrad [formerly German Prussia] and she taught German at a Russian university.  One of their daughters was born in East Germany.  According to those in the know... even after returning to Russia, the Putin family continued to speak German at home and both daughters attended the German school in Moscow.


----------



## KingsX (Apr 18, 2019)

Rosemarie said:


> It is interesting to speculate about how things would have turned out if Hitler had not been defeated. Germany had brilliant scientists who were developing more advanced weapons, including nuclear and biological. The German army was well-disciplined and well-trained. In fact, it was like a repeat of the Romans. The Americans provided us with the manpower and money to defeat them, but I think, like the Romans, the Germans over-stretched themselves, and Hitler didn't learn from Napoleons mistake when he attacked Russia.




My brother was one of NASA's Apollo era scientists [he retired after 42 years with NASA.]   When I was a kid visiting his lab at the Lunar Receiving Lab Building in Houston, he told me that neither the USA nor the USSR would have a space program without the foundation of Third Reich science.


----------



## fuzzybuddy (Apr 19, 2019)

There is a notion that the US was a "neutral nation", when the "Japs hit Pearl", Dec 7, 1941. That's not really true. Beginning in early 1941, the US was escorting US/UK shipping in the Atlantic. Things were escalting in the Atlantic. A US Naval ship was sunk by a nazi submarine, with the loss of 100 men in Oct. 1941. That of in itself is an Act Of War by US law. And by that time, the US Navy had orders to report all Nazi activity in the Atlantic, and orders to fire at will on Nazi forces. Again, by this time, it was obvious that the UK would need massive infusions of food, material and arms, if it were to survive the next six months. The only way to get those supplies to the UK from the US was via the Atlantic, where the Nazis were ready to sink any such convoys. It ws inevitable. War was coming, and by summer 1942.
My question is what was the intended Nazi game plan once Russia & UK were out of the picture?


----------



## fmdog44 (Apr 19, 2019)

Operation Barbarosa sunk Hitler with the Russians. The Germans were told it would be a quick sweep and so they were not given clothing and supplies for a long and very cold conflict.


----------



## KingsX (Apr 19, 2019)

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> It is a fact that many Tsarist Russians [including the archbishop of the "Russian Orthodox Church in Exile" headquartered in Belgrade, Serbia]  did support Hitler's overthrown of Bolshevik Russia... and many Russians [including Cossacks] also fought along side Germans to try to liberate their homeland from the Bolsheviks.




In the 1930s while Stalin and his atheist Bolsheviks were destroying churches and murdering millions of Christians in Russia,  in 1938 Hitler helped Russians [who had fled Russia for Germany] build a Russian Orthodox church in Berlin.

During the early part of the war, in Russian lands already liberated by Germans,  Russians began to rebuild churches that Bolsheivks had destroyed.

Since this is Easter weekend... this quote seems appropriate for this topic:

_*The day that it (the Russian people) has been waiting for has come, and it is now truly rising from the dead in those places where the courageous German sword has succeeded in severing its fetters… Both ancient Kiev , and much-suffering Smolensk and Pskov are radiantly celebrating their deliverance as if from the depths of hell. The liberated part of the Russian people everywhere has already begun to chant: ‘Christ is risen!' *_

Archbishop Anastasy [Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]
Paschal 1942

.


----------



## Trade (Apr 22, 2019)

https://www.economist.com/node/21006586/comments?page=1
“Twenty-seven million dead – such a price was paid by no other  country….You cannot understand Russia unless you understand what we went  through in the war.”


—Vladimir Putin, June 22, 2001​June 22nd marks the 76th anniversary of Operation  Barbarossa, Nazi Germany’s invasion of Russia. The event set off a new  stage of World War II, precipitated a catastrophic loss of life in the  Soviet Union, and, it would hardly be an exaggeration to say, changed  the course of world history.

On this day in 1941, Nazi troops passed onto Soviet soil to  commence a siege that caught most citizens by surprise. While Stalin  had received numerous warnings from his military advisors that Hitler's  attack was imminent, he did not heed their advice. By the end of the  war, over 27 million Soviet citizens lost their lives.
The Soviet Union entered the war in 1939 when, under their Non-aggression Pact of 1939  with Germany, they invaded Poland and quickly defeated the Polish army.  Secretly, an addendum had been added to the Pact. According to the  addendum, Poland and the whole of Eastern Europe would be divided  between Germany and the Soviet Union. The Soviets received Latvia,  Estonia, Lithuania, Finland, and Poland east of a line formed by the  Vistula and San rivers.
But Hitler’s share of the spoils was not enough for him.  The Führer was determined to take over the Soviet Union as soon as he  obtained control of Europe, regardless of his pact with Stalin.

Hitler's invasion of the Soviet Union in the surprise  attack known as Operation Barbarossa set off the Great Patriotic War,  Russia's name for WWII as fought on Soviet soil. The Soviet Union needed  to defend its borders and citizens – and to do that, Stalin joined  forces with the Allies. This was a significant turnaround after the pact  with Hitler, but a necessary one to face the Nazis in war.

It has been speculated that if Hitler had not attacked the  Soviet Union, Stalin may well have never entered WWII and would have  continued to supply the Nazis with the materials of war. A worse  scenario would have been if Stalin had supplemented Hitler’s forces with  Soviet troops. The outcome of WWII in Europe might have been very  different.
Luckily for that particular period of world history,  military leaders with the goal of gaining a foothold on Russian soil  have not fared very well. Napoleon invaded Russia and tried to take  Moscow beginning in mid-June of 1812. His attempt was far more  short-lived than Hitler's, and just as unsuccessful. At least,  unsuccessful for him: it became a central element of Lev Tolstoy’s _War and Peace_, making it one of the most literarily important wars in history.
Hitler, initially, managed to take large portions of the  Soviet Union west of the Urals with sweeping panzer movements. His goal  was to take down the Soviets, gain control of Moscow, and proceed over  the Urals to where Stalin had positioned the bulk of his manufacturing  plants.

But it was not to be. By November, 1941, the Germans had  suffered an unprecedented 730,000 casualties. The Soviet winter  counter-offensives, launched in December, steadily exhausted and  demoralized the Nazi troops. Hitler, having visions of Napoleon's  retreat from Moscow, forbade any form of retreat. This caused his troops  to suffer dramatically as they lacked proper clothing and supplies to  survive the brutal Russian winter.

On top of that, the Soviet Union was now one of the Allies.  The Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union prompted a resolution between  Moscow, Britain, and the United States in September of 1941. The United  States and Britain pledged quarterly allotments of supplies to the  Soviet Union to aid in their struggle with Germany. By the end of  winter, Hitler's divisions had been diminished by roughly two-thirds: it  was a force he would never fully rebuild.

After tremendous suffering, loss of life and bloodshed, the  Soviet Union managed to turn the tide with victories at Stalingrad and  Kursk in 1942 and 1943. Like Napoleon, Hitler was run out of Russia,  pursued by an army of determined Russians with a blood debt to settle.  The Red Army pushed Hitler back to Berlin and captured that city in the  early days of May 1945. Allied forces entered Berlin from the west, and  the end of WWII in Europe was declared on May 9th – a date celebrated as  Victory Day in Russia to this day.

June 22 is a date that means little to the rest of the  world and is acknowledged only in other nations affected by Hitler's  siege, particularly Ukraine and Belarus. Russians see the eventual  victory over Hitler as a testament to their endurance, tenacity, and  iron will. They also see it, especially the victory at Stalingrad, as a  decisive turning point in the ultimate defeat of Nazi Germany.

The significance of today's anniversary and the events of  the following years of the Great Patriotic War cannot be underestimated  in understanding Russian history. Moreover, the continued impact of the  violence of war, massive loss of life, and sense of importance in  driving the Allies toward victory continues to shape Russia today.


----------



## WhatInThe (Apr 22, 2019)

Enslave, plunder and impose ideological agenda. In addition to moving on to North and South America. China and/or Japan probably would've said to no to moving in on their turf.

Just like the over stretched supply lines during much of the war it would've taken an massive effort to geographically secure that area along with controlling a population without depleting it or festering a revolution. As long as the US and UK were still in the war it would not have been an easy task.


----------



## RonV (Apr 23, 2019)

*What I would  like to know is what would the nazi's do to the japanese if they won the war. Remember that they were the superior race (or so they believed they were) and would end up fighting them as well.   *


----------

