# SAGE adviser says UK WON'T see a spike in Covid cases like Austria and Germany



## hollydolly (Nov 20, 2021)

...
_A SAGE adviser has moved to reassure Britons the UK will not see a spike in Covid-19 cases like Austria and Germany - but warned Europe's soaring infection rate and lockdown riots should act as a 'warning' as he urged people to get their booster jabs.  

Professor John Edmunds said today that opposition to stringent restrictions on the continent have demonstrated the importance of booster jabs, warning, 'it is pretty clear immunity does wane'. 

'What you see now in central Europe with these rapid increase in cases, you see the importance of vaccination,' Mr Edmunds told Sky. 

This comes as the World Health Organization (WHO) said it was 'very worried' about the spread of Covid-19 within Europe as the continent battles a fresh wave of infections.

Regional director Dr Hans Kluge told the BBC that some 500,000 more deaths could be recorded by March unless urgent action is taken.

But Mr Edmunds said the UK was unlikely to be hit by the Christmas chaos because the country 'is in a slightly different position'.

This comes amid a fresh wave of Covid infections on the continent that has sent nations back into draconian restrictions and could see excess deaths start to rise again.

Italy is considering a lockdown of the unvaccinated, it emerged yesterday, which would make it the latest country to impose the controversial intervention after Austria announced lockdown would return on Monday.

And Germany's incoming government has said that it wants unvaccinated people to be barred from going to work and travelling on public transport amid what Angela Merkel calls 'dramatic' infection levels. The Netherlands has also introduced a 7pm curfew for pubs and restaurants amid rising cases there.

Both Austria and the Czech Republic have announced the return of lockdowns from Monday, with Germany poised to follow suit after health officials warned they cannot rule out a full shutdown. 

Meanwhile, Slovakia intends to bring in harsher restrictions if its current lockdown of unvaccinated people does not curb the rise in cases. 

The reintroduction of restrictions across Europe have sparked a fierce backlash and fevered protests broke out in cities including Rotterdam overnight, where riot police fired warning shots - injuring protestors marching against the Covid measures.

Today, tens of thousands of protesters gathered in Vienna with the far-right opposition Freedom Party among those who have called for the protest and vowed to combat the new restrictions.

Demonstrations against virus measures are also expected in other European countries including Switzerland, Croatia and Italy. 

The British Government has repeatedly rejected pleas to implement its Plan B, which would see similar measures to what are being levied on Ireland. But Boris Johnson has admitted a full-blown lockdown could still be on the cards if cases spike. _


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## chic (Nov 20, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> ...
> _A SAGE adviser has moved to reassure Britons the UK will not see a spike in Covid-19 cases like Austria and Germany - but warned Europe's soaring infection rate and lockdown riots should act as a 'warning' as he urged people to get their booster jabs.
> 
> Professor John Edmunds said today that opposition to stringent restrictions on the continent have demonstrated the importance of booster jabs, warning, 'it is pretty clear immunity does wane'.
> ...


What do you think will happen Holly?  Lockdown or no?


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## hollydolly (Nov 21, 2021)

chic said:


> What do you think will happen Holly?  Lockdown or no?


I have to say I'm concerned because they promised us no Lockdown at Christmas last year... . Told us to go ahead and book our visits with family and friends, book restaurants, book tickets to travel, and everyone did.. and then on the 9th of December Johnston announced the lockdown.!! How there wasn't murder here I have no idea... . ..so in answer to your question Chic, I wouldn't trust Boris Johnston as far as I could throw a grand piano, and I'm just waiting for it to happen again


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## chic (Nov 21, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I have to say Im concerned because they promised us no Lockdown at Christmas last year... . Told us to go ahead and book our visits with family and friends, book restaurants, book tickets to travel, and everyone did.. and then on t urder here I have no idea... . ..so in asnwer to your question Chic, I wouldn't trust Boris Johnston as far as I could throw a grand piano, and I'm just waiting for it to hap





hollydolly said:


> I have to say Im concerned because they promised us no Lockdown at Christmas last year... . Told us to go ahead and book our visits with family and friends, book restaurants, book tickets to travel, and everyone did.. and then on the 9th of December Johnston announced the lockdown.!! How there wasn't murder here I have no idea... . ..so in asnwer to your question Chic, I wouldn't trust Boris Johnston as far as I could throw a grand piano, and I'm just waiting for it to happen again


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## hollydolly (Nov 21, 2021)

I think you forgot to add your reply @chic..


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## Capt Lightning (Nov 21, 2021)

Hollydolly, I find it hard to  trust anyone when it comes to Covid.  As someone said (including in 'Yes Minister'), "Never believe anything until it has been officially denied."
We're waiting to hear what  "Wee Jimmy" has to say.  Doubtless she will want to do something different to England, but nobody really seems to worry what she says.  There have been cases where she tried to ban travel between Scotland and England, but the airlines didn't make any checks and travel continued as usual.  There were some news reports of people having to cancel plans, but my daughter said they were stupid as nobody would stop them. 

Anyway, we've got our 'Covid passports' ans will see about booster shots soon.


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## Sunny (Nov 21, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I have to say Im concerned because they promised us no Lockdown at Christmas last year... . Told us to go ahead and book our visits with family and friends, book restaurants, book tickets to travel, and everyone did.. and then on the 9th of December Johnston announced the lockdown.!! How there wasn't murder here I have no idea... . ..so in asnwer to your question Chic, I wouldn't trust Boris Johnston as far as I could throw a grand piano, and I'm just waiting for it to happen again



I'm curious, Holly.  If people book tickets for airline travel, and have presumably paid for them, do they at least get a refund if there is a lockdown?


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## Becky1951 (Nov 21, 2021)

Sunny said:


> I'm curious, Holly.  If people book tickets for airline travel, and have presumably paid for them, do they at least get a refund if there is a lockdown?


They should but I doubt they would. They don't want to lose that money and probably tell you that you can use it for a later booking date.


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## hollydolly (Nov 21, 2021)

Sunny said:


> I'm curious, Holly.  If people book tickets for airline travel, and have presumably paid for them, do they at least get a refund if there is a lockdown?


Nope no refund , @Becky1951  is correct .. this is what they've been telling people.. , however, many who are _unable_ to use it for another trip have reported that they're still battling to have their money refunded , which is why I'm holding back from booking a flight for the spring, because I don't want to lose the money if we have another lockdown...


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## Tish (Nov 21, 2021)

Well since all the restrictions have been lifted we have 176 new cases in NSW, 1275 new cases in Victoria that will grow as the anti-vaccine demonstrations are almost a daily event, 1 new in Tasmania, 0 in Queensland, 0 South Australia, 1 in Western Australia, ACT 16, NT 0.
As far as I have heard we won't be going into lockdown over Christmas.


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## hollydolly (Nov 21, 2021)

Tish said:


> Well since all the restrictions have been lifted we have 176 new cases in NSW, 1275 new cases in Victoria that will grow as the anti-vaccine demonstrations are almost a daily event, 1 new in Tasmania, 0 in Queensland, 0 South Australia, 1 in Western Australia, ACT 16, NT 0.
> As far as I have heard we won't be going into lockdown over Christmas.


We've been told we won't be going into Lockdown either Tish...only Johnston said that last Christmas, in fact  at the beginning of December he PROMIISED we wouldn't close the country down until after Christmas , and literally at the 11th hour he changed his mind, and everyone who had made plans to visit their old and sick relatives in care homes  and hospitals  after not having been permitted to visit for months now couldn't, and those who'd made plans to fly out or in to the the country couldn't, and all the pubs and restaurants were closed at a moments notice, at the time of year when they were hoping to recoup everything they'd lost over the previous many months of lockdown.... It was a Horrible shock for everyone.. , so I wouldn't trust Boris not to do it again this year , even tho' _again_ he's said it won't happen.


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## Capt Lightning (Nov 21, 2021)

Last Christmas my daughter came to visit and she's booked for this year too.  This is totally legitimate, but there were no checks anywhere.  The airlines apparently said that it's not their job to check. Plenty of families in the village got together at Christmas.   You don't tell tales here.   During the whole lockdown, the only time we saw the police, they were in ASDA buying sandwiches.   You take precautions, but don't let lockdown rule you.


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## hollydolly (Nov 21, 2021)

Capt Lightning said:


> Last Christmas my daughter came to visit and she's booked for this year too.  This is totally legitimate, but there were no checks anywhere.  The airlines apparently said that it's not their job to check. Plenty of families in the village got together at Christmas.   You don't tell tales here.   During the whole lockdown, the only time we saw the police, they were in ASDA buying sandwiches.   You take precautions, but don't let lockdown rule you.


Last Christmas there was no flights out of the country.. and those who had already flown out had to pay double or triple to get back on a flight home before the lockdown date..many people had only been abroad one day..on a 2 week trip when they had to return immediately, or pay 2 thousand pounds to quarantine for 10 days ...if they could even get a flight back ..


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## Shero (Nov 21, 2021)

.
UK will be following the path of Europe very soon !!!!


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## hollydolly (Nov 22, 2021)

Sunny said:


> I'm curious, Holly.  If people book tickets for airline travel, and have presumably paid for them, do they at least get a refund if there is a lockdown?


co-incidentally, in todays' papers..
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ncelled-Covid-September-face-losing-them.html


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## Furryanimal (Nov 22, 2021)

This from the ‘i’
nice to see an article that is not scaremongering.


By Richard Vaughan
November 21, 2021 10:04 pm(Updated 11:06 pm)
As protesters take to the streets of Vienna in protest at the Austrian government’s draconian vaccine edict, and several of its European neighbours bring in further restrictions, Christmas on the Continent is looking bleak.

And while Boris Johnson has gone to great lengths to deliver words heavy with foreboding about the fresh Covid wave “washing on our shores” the received wisdom among UK scientists is that the Covid tsunami sweeping Europe will barely make a ripple over here.

The reason for this, according to scientists, is because of the UK’s successful vaccination and more recently booster programme, but also because of a different collective state of mind in Blighty.



When the last of the Covid restrictions were lifted in England around the 19 July, the Government, the NHS, the scientific community and the public at large appeared to have just accepted that Covid rates will run relatively high and around 100 people (200 on bad days) will die from the disease.

It is telling that Germany has decided to start imposing fresh Covid rules now with new cases hitting around 40,000 a day, when the UK has been registering that many infections for weeks now.

But this isn’t to say that one way is better or worse. The other big reason why the UK was willing and able to take the path it has is because of its supremely successful vaccine roll out. About 80 per cent of all over 12s have had two doses of the jab, giving the country substantial protection. Add to this the number of people who have become infected naturally and the UK is in a much better place than 12 months ago.

While Germany has had a relatively successful vaccination programme, large pockets of its country, such as Bavaria and Saxony have much lower jab rates, often as low as 50 per cent. This means the virus has the potential to do more damage. This is equally the case for the likes of Romania, Bulgaria and other eastern European nations, which have had a much slower vaccine roll out.

It is why ministers are so eager to see more people take up the booster jab. The third dose of the vaccine does not just top up immunity, it turbo-charges it.

A recent UK Health Security Agency found that a third dose gives around 93 per cent protection against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant. If the booster roll out is as successful as the original vaccine programme, then a winter wave could well be avoided.
......................
I’m living normally now apart from the Welsh inconvenience of masks and Covid passes.
So should everyone else.
With so many people fully vaccinated and some triple jabbed-as i will be this time next week-i don’t think any of the UK governments would dare try another lockdown.
And remember everyone-Boris only speaks for England.
Wales remains at level zero and i’m looking forward to my next sold out concert on December 3rd,having recently attended my first of that ilk since the end of lockdown


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## Furryanimal (Nov 22, 2021)

Shero said:


> .
> UK will be following the path of Europe very soon !!!!


No itwon’t.
We have the most successful vaccination programme in the world.See the article i have posted.


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## hollydolly (Nov 22, 2021)

Furryanimal said:


> This from the ‘i’
> nice to see an article that is not scaremongering.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes but Wales has had an even worse time of it than any country in the UK this last year....  and altho' when it comes to Covid,  Boris only speaks for England, he is after all the prime minister of the whole of the Uk and he can over-rule whoever your local leader is, just as he can wee jimmy krankie...if it became necessary


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## Becky1951 (Nov 22, 2021)

"The third dose of the vaccine does not just top up immunity, it turbo-charges it."

How does it "turbo-charge" it?

It's been claimed that the vaccine loses its effectiveness after 6 months, thus the need for a third shot.

Also claimed that some of the high spikes of covid in vaccinated persons are due to waning of the vaccines effectiveness. Thus a third shot.

So if it's lost its effectiveness there is no "turbo" to a third shot. Just the rate of effectiveness as the original shots. Just my opinion.


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## Furryanimal (Nov 22, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Yes but Wales has had an even worse time of it than any country in the UK this last year....  and altho' when it comes to Covid,  Boris only speaks for England, he is after all the prime minister of the whole of the Uk and he can over-rule whoever your local leader is, just as he can wee jimmy krankie...if it became necessary


When it comes to matters of health he cannot.It is a devolved power.It would require an act of Parliament to change that.
All Covid pronouncements from Boris only apply to England unless it concerns international travel.Which is not a devolved power.


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## Furryanimal (Nov 22, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "The third dose of the vaccine does not just top up immunity, it turbo-charges it."
> 
> How does it "turbo-charge" it?
> 
> ...


Why is the flu vaccine an annual event?
Because the protection people got from last years has worn off.
No different with Covid.


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## helenbacque (Nov 22, 2021)

It takes a brave person to predict with certainty any _*what, where or when*_ with regards to Covid.  It's all guess work, maybe educated guess work but guess work nevertheless.


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## Becky1951 (Nov 22, 2021)

Furryanimal said:


> Why is the flu vaccine an annual event?
> Because the protection people got from last years has worn off.
> No different with Covid.


I understand that. And the flu annual vaccination isn't "turbo charged" its just another vaccination to last until the next one is needed.  My issue is with stating the third vaccine is "turbo charged".


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## chic (Nov 22, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> I understand that. And the flu annual vaccination isn't "turbo charged" its just another vaccination to last until the next one is needed.  My issue is with stating the third vaccine is "turbo charged".


I agree. It sounds like they're already setting people up for a 4th jab and possibly more depending upon the data etc. etc.


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## Capt Lightning (Nov 22, 2021)

I cancelled flights with KLM not because of a lockdown in the UK, but because of a lockdown in my destination (Vienna).   Initially, I accepted vouchers, but when things didn't improve, I requested a refund.  No problem - I had the money within 2 weeks.  Not sure what other airlines do.

Fortunately, my daughters live in the Midlands, so they are flying internally when they visit us.  The flights to Aberdeen are mainly used by oil workers, and are not usually affected .


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## chic (Nov 22, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I think you forgot to add your reply @chic..


I don't believe the U.K. will lockdown. BJ likes to keep his finger on the pulse of public reaction to his policies before issuing more directives. People there are protesting more intensely and it may help to sway his opinion in favor of no more locking down. But you live there and have a better perspective on this than any of us in the U.S.


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## Don M. (Nov 22, 2021)

chic said:


> I agree. It sounds like they're already setting people up for a 4th jab and possibly more depending upon the data etc. etc.



I fully expect that annual doses of these vaccines will be needed for several years.  Recent news about a "pill" being developed might help reduce the numbers...IF, such a pill works, and the unvaccinated can/will take it.  

Perhaps by the time the 10th dose of vaccines become available, this virus will be a minor problem.


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## Shero (Nov 22, 2021)

Furryanimal said:


> No itwon’t.
> We have the most successful vaccination programme in the world.See the article i have posted.


.
Non you do not! Portugal has the highest rates of vaccination in the world

Like Australia, Portugal has put a military man in charge of its COVID-19 vaccine rollout. He told the New York Times that keeping politics out of the effort was the key to success.

"They need to find people who are not politicians," he said. So he assembled a team of mathematicians, doctors, analysts and strategic experts from the Portuguese army, navy and air force.

The UK is sitting on a time bomb!! Watch this space!


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## John cycling (Nov 22, 2021)

Don M. said:


> a "pill" being developed might help reduce the numbers...IF, such a pill works, and the unvaccinated can/will take it.
> Perhaps by the time the 10th dose of vaccines become available, this virus will be a minor problem.



I completely agree.
The more people who keep getting the shots and the pills, the less the number of people who remain.


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## Shero (Nov 23, 2021)

More bad news, Croatia is now following the rest of Europe. I really wish people would follow the rules and do thesafe thing.


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