# Doctors considering euthanasia in France and Spain.....



## PopsnTuff (Apr 7, 2020)

*Doctors facing 'temptation of euthanasia': French medic warns of terrible decision facing staff in coronavirus hit care homes while Spanish doctors are 'ordered to stop using ventilators for patients older than 80'*

*In Spain there have been 130,759 reported cases, with 4,591 deaths*
*In France, 89,953 people have had or have the virus, with 7,560 people dying*
*Spanish politician Alfons Lopez Tena said morphine used to avoid 'futility of health care'*
*In France, Dr Bernard Devalois said there's 'temptation of euthanasia'*
Doctors in European countries including Spain and France are reportedly turning to euthanasia to ease the burden of coronavirus on already-overwhelmed health services.

In both Spain and France, deaths from coronavirus have ballooned above the official number of dead in China, where the outbreak first began.

In Spain, there have been 130,759 reported cases, with 4,591 deaths, while in France, 89,953 people have had or have the virus, with 7,560 succumbing to it so far.

And despite the use of euthanasia being illegal in both countries, doctors have said there is a 'temptation' for it to be used.

Spanish doctors are also reportedly being told not to use ventilators on patients older than 80.....Read more....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rus-patients-faced-temptation-euthanasia.html


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## StarSong (Apr 8, 2020)

Updated numbers as of 11:00 GMT, April 8.  
France - 109,000 cases, 10,300 deaths
Spain - 142,000 cases, 14,000 deaths

I cannot imagine how distraught, defeated and overwhelmed their medical personnel must be, especially since the spread of this virus was so bloody predictable.  
So very sad for so many.


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## Em in Ohio (Apr 8, 2020)

PopsnTuff said:


> *Doctors facing 'temptation of euthanasia': French medic warns of terrible decision facing staff in coronavirus hit care homes while Spanish doctors are 'ordered to stop using ventilators for patients older than 80'*
> 
> *In Spain there have been 130,759 reported cases, with 4,591 deaths*
> *In France, 89,953 people have had or have the virus, with 7,560 people dying*
> ...


As someone who thinks we should all have the right to die, I'm not upset over this EXCEPT that the patients/families may not be given a say in the matter.  But, I do realize that these are desperate times and that 'calls' such as this may become necessary.  It is a grim reality.


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## Pepper (Apr 8, 2020)

*Doctors facing 'temptation of euthanasia'* 
Temptation.  Since when is being tempted an actual attempt?
The Daily Mail is Best Used for Wrapping Fish or spreading misinformation and panic.


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## PopsnTuff (Apr 8, 2020)

Pepper said:


> *Doctors facing 'temptation of euthanasia'*
> Temptation.  Since when is being tempted an actual attempt?
> The Daily Mail is Best Used for Wrapping Fish or spreading misinformation and panic.


Should I stop posting any news from the Daily Mail, in your best opinion, @Pepper, if its mostly fake news?


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## Pepper (Apr 8, 2020)

PopsnTuff said:


> Should I stop posting any news from the Daily Mail, in your best opinion, @Pepper, if its mostly fake news?


You should do as you see fit and so should I.


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## AnnieA (Apr 8, 2020)

Morphine in the case of Covid-19 is not clear cut euthanasia.  Morphine is used in certain diseases that cause oxygen deprivation such as end stage congestive heart disease and in the final days on hospice because one of its mechanisms of action is the alleviation of the sensation of 'air hunger.'  It's used for that even in the absence of pain.

Mortality for Covid-19 in cases that require vent support aren't great ...especially in the elderly. And even surviving ARDS that Covid-19 causes in extreme cases is usually pretty hellish in the elderly. So morphine in that case is more of a hospice treatment option than euthanasia.

I'm in the process of creating a living will stating that I do not want ventilator support should I contract Covid-19 and get to that point. With asthma,  my odds are pretty low even with the vent.  Surviving ARDS regardless of the cause is often years of misery due to lung damage. Have specified that I want meds for palliative care ...enough to be kept comfortable.  If the comfort dose for air hunger kills me before Covid-19, so be it.


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## StarSong (Apr 9, 2020)

@AnnieA - Thanks for the clear explanation.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 9, 2020)

If there aren't enough ventilators, they may not have a choice. I already told my son and it was included in the living will I had drawn up in 2009, I do not want to be kept alive by extra measures....no feeding tubes, intubation, etc. And after watching my husband who was a lively, active man lying in ICU with tubes going every which way, including a breathing tube...it solidified my decision.


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## Lc jones (Apr 9, 2020)

I have no problem with a do not resuscitate order but I do not want someone to pull the plug if they can keep a person comfortable when there are no ventilators available, I’m sure there will be those who tear into me about this but I have an obligation to speak for those that are helpless and cannot speak for themselves.


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## Don M. (Apr 9, 2020)

In times like this, doctors have to make some awful decisions.  If their choice is between keeping a younger person with children alive, vs., some elderly individual with little chance for a return to normal, it would seem that the former is their best course of action.  I think doctors in Most nations are doing the best they can under these circumstances.  

The worst news I've read is coming from Ecuador....there, victims of this virus are receiving little care, and their remains are being stored in plastic bags, and left to rot.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...dor-struggles-to-keep-up-with-covid-19-deaths


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## oldman (Apr 9, 2020)

I watched a doctor on TV the other night tell about his 96 year old father who had COVID-19 and recovered from it using hydroxychloroquine (sp?).
Based on that, I have decided to go out of this world the same way that I came in; Kicking and screaming.


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