# Freedom of information revelation on #deaths from covid only, no underlying life-threatening causes (comorbidity). Way lower



## Murrmurr (Jan 21, 2022)

The actual number of deaths solely attributed to Covid is massively lower than the numbers widely reported as Covid Deaths.
The numbers shown in this video are for mid-March 2020 to early January 2022, and for England and Wales only, because the FOIA request came from there. But it's easy to assume numbers have been misrepresented in many counties.


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## chic (Jan 21, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> The actual number of deaths solely attributed to Covid is massively lower than the numbers widely reported as Covid Deaths.
> The numbers shown in this video are for mid-March 2020 to early January 2022, and for England and Wales only, because the FOIA request came from there. But it's easy to assume numbers have been misrepresented in many counties.


It was on their official news as well. Looks like people have been had.


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## Jeni (Jan 21, 2022)

@Murrmurr thanks for posting...
many of us had questioned then numbers ALL along ..... 
i hope those who have followed these false numbers now just think even if for a moment ..... is this true.... 

I have watched some people who were all cheerleaders for restriction and such now saying "WTH is up with this data?".   
we can agree to disagree on many things but we need REAL data for transparency and MORE important for future study.


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## Jules (Jan 21, 2022)

If the people wouldn’t have died without Covid, they died because of Covid.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 21, 2022)

chic said:


> It was on their official news as well. Looks like people have been had.


One source I read said that, in the UK and Wales, more people died of the seasonal flu in pre-covid 2018 than died of covid between March 2020 to January 2022. But I'm going to look for data from other sources....this is just one.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 21, 2022)

Jules said:


> If the people wouldn’t have died without Covid, they died because of Covid.


The 17,000-some deaths Dr. Campbell is talking about are patients admitted for covid only. Patients with other illness or disease aren't included. And it's very interesting to me that the average age of those who died of covid only is 82.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 21, 2022)

Jules said:


> If the people wouldn’t have died without Covid, they died because of Covid.


I didn't understand what you were saying at first....I get it now. I have to argue that there's no way of knowing that. If a patient was admitted for, say, liver failure, end-stage renal disease, sepsis, heart attack, or advanced COPD with severe bronchitis, they may well have died whether they tested positive for covid or not. Including that data doesn't only skew the mortality rate, it disguises, or at least distracts everyone from identifying the people most likely to succumb if they contract covid. To me it says these are the people who should have been most diligently protected, and that trillions in stimulus money was wasted, lives disrupted, livelihoods lost, gaps widened, and etc etc needlessly.

That said, the US gained 17 new billionaires, so, there _is_ that.


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## Warrigal (Jan 21, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> The 17,000-some deaths Dr. Campbell is talking about are patients admitted for covid only. Patients with other illness or disease aren't included. And it's very interesting to me that the average age of those who died of covid only is 82.


My nurse daughter is with me now and she has been talking about patients admitted for one condition who are found to be also infected with covid. She gave the example of someone who is admitted for complications with pregnancy who also has covid. She cannot be admitted to the covid wards (her hospital has 4 covid wards) but instead is admitted to the maternity section where management of her pregnancy complications is much more difficult because she is also infectious. The nurses must treat her while wearing full PPE and make sure she doesn't infect the other pregnant women. If they have to intubate her and she dies, was it because of the pregnancy or the virus? I suggest the death certificate might record both, as it should.

There is an apparently dismissive attitude to people who have underlying conditions as if somehow they don't count. To understand this pandemic we need to know all the numbers whether the patient was diabetic, had asthma, high BP or was pregnant. The virus doesn't just seek out and kill the fittest and healthiest people. It is a respiratory disease that can take out anyone if the infection is severe enough.


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## Jeni (Jan 22, 2022)

I do not believe people are Dismissing people with underlying conditions ... we  need correct data for study and public to make informed choices not based on altered data.

In my area we several deaths in Hospice care at end of life ....listed as covid deaths..... heart attacks or other items if you can get Covid listed too . Hospitals were given $$ for each positive which was a recipe for adjusting #s

Had car accidents listed as covid deaths and my favorite a gunshot through a mans head listed as a covid death. 
My question is why did they test (and they did )... on accident or even murdered dead to be able to list covid on death certificate? 
Because a COVID listing meant $$$$ from federal Government to states "to control the spread"
*
75% *of deaths according to cdc director had obesity as a related issue... we ignore that... WHY because it is unpopular even if truthful.

we instead want to blame others they did not mask enough.... they may not have got the vaccine... they may have gathered with more people then recommended....  
below from CDC website ...
Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

_Children diagnosed with obesity may suffer worse outcomes from COVID-19. In a study of COVID-19 cases in patients aged 18 years and younger, having obesity was associated with a 3.07 times higher risk of hospitalization and a 1.42 times higher risk of severe illness (intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, or death) when hospitalized.7_


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## chic (Jan 22, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> I didn't understand what you were saying at first....I get it now. I have to argue that there's no way of knowing that. If a patient was admitted for, say, liver failure, end-stage renal disease, sepsis, heart attack, or advanced COPD with severe bronchitis, they may well have died whether they tested positive for covid or not. Including that data doesn't only skew the mortality rate, it disguises, or at least distracts everyone from identifying the people most likely to succumb if they contract covid. To me it says these are the people who should have been most diligently protected, and that trillions in stimulus money was wasted, lives disrupted, livelihoods lost, gaps widened, and etc etc needlessly.
> 
> That said, the US gained 17 new billionaires, so, there _is_ that.


Yeah. Just what we need more non tax paying billionaires while average Americans have lost so much because of this pandemic. 

I agree, the vulnerable should have been protected while the rest of us lived our lives and upheld the economy, but there are honestly many people who will never believe this nor abandon their position on covid, how serious it is, or was, and what should have been done about it. They're just too heavily invested in it by this time.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 22, 2022)

chic said:


> Yeah. Just what we need more non tax paying billionaires while average Americans have lost so much because of this pandemic.
> 
> I agree, the vulnerable should have been protected while the rest of us lived our lives and upheld the economy, but there are honestly many people who will never believe this nor abandon their position on covid, how serious it is, or was, and what should have been done about it. They're just too heavily invested in it by this time.


There's been boatloads of research and study going on everywhere, and as the resulting data gushes forth like a massive river, I believe we'll start hearing a change of tune from a number of directions. And if we ever see another pandemic, and that's possible, it's extremely unlikely The Covid-19 Strategy will come into play again.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 22, 2022)

Warrigal said:


> My nurse daughter is with me now and she has been talking about patients admitted for one condition who are found to be also infected with covid. She gave the example of someone who is admitted for complications with pregnancy who also has covid. She cannot be admitted to the covid wards (her hospital has 4 covid wards) but instead is admitted to the maternity section where management of her pregnancy complications is much more difficult because she is also infectious. The nurses must treat her while wearing full PPE and make sure she doesn't infect the other pregnant women. If they have to intubate her and she dies, was it because of the pregnancy or the virus? I suggest the death certificate might record both, as it should.
> 
> There is an apparently dismissive attitude to people who have underlying conditions as if somehow they don't count. To understand this pandemic we need to know all the numbers whether the patient was diabetic, had asthma, high BP or was pregnant. The virus doesn't just seek out and kill the fittest and healthiest people. It is a respiratory disease that can take out anyone if the infection is severe enough.


That isn't the point, though. No one is dismissing patients with comorbidity. The whole point of clarifying the numbers is precisely to show that people with certain comorbidity and the elderly make up the vast majority of people who are likely to die if infected with covid - like over 90%  - and that isolating everyone else, shutting down people's businesses and all that, and even mandating vaccines for young, healthy kids, was completely unnecessary.


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## chic (Jan 22, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> There's been boatloads of research and study going on everywhere, and as the resulting data gushes forth like a massive river, I believe we'll start hearing a change of tune from a number of directions. And if we ever see another pandemic, and that's possible, it's extremely unlikely The Covid-19 Strategy will come into play again.



I think so too with England leading the charge while Americans just rolled up their sleeves and complied.  There must be accountability though if this is never to happen again. A precedent must be set.


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## Irwin (Jan 22, 2022)

...


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## Murrmurr (Jan 22, 2022)

chic said:


> I think so too with England leading the charge while Americans just rolled up their sleeves and complied.  There must be accountability though if this is never to happen again. A precedent must be set.


I'm sure some prominent (and soon-to-be prominent) people will be writing about the Pandemic of 2019-2022 over the next several years, and blame will be assigned. Whether or not something like justice will ever be served, idk and I don't really care....lessons will be learned and remembered.


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## chic (Jan 22, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> I'm sure some prominent (and soon-to-be prominent) people will be writing about the Pandemic of 2019-2022 over the next several years, and blame will be assigned. Whether or not something like justice will ever be served, idk and I don't really care....lessons will be learned and remembered.


Without accountability. This, or something like it, could happen again. That must never be.


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## Shero (Jan 22, 2022)

chic said:


> I think so too with England leading the charge while Americans just rolled up their sleeves and complied.  There must be accountability though if this is never to happen again. A precedent must be set.


You already have "accountability" . A lot of unvaccinated dead. What more do you want 
.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 22, 2022)

chic said:


> Without accountability. This, or something like it, could happen again. That must never be.


But here's how accountability sometimes works these days; people don't get re-elected, others get fired or demoted, lose their credibility, their reputation, investors, grants. That's aside from what an angry mob can do.


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## chic (Jan 23, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> But here's how accountability sometimes works these days; people don't get re-elected, others get fired or demoted, lose their credibility, their reputation, investors, grants. That's aside from what an angry mob can do.


I was thinking of our judicial systems. They must be held accountable in court, preferably a world court. That would ensure nothing like this happens again for a very long time, at least.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 23, 2022)

chic said:


> I was thinking of our judicial systems. They must be held accountable in court, preferably a world court. That would ensure nothing like this happens again for a very long time, at least.


That will happen when / if law suits are filed, which won't result in jail time. But you know as well as I that no gov't officials will be held responsible except through congressional investigations and hearings.

I can cut slack for the upper tier gov't officials (the policy creators) who are not medically knowledgeable and acted on advice from their own experts, the WHO, and the CDC. In my opinion, it's the likes of the latter 3 who need investigating and guilty parties prosecuted - the guilty being those who knowingly or negligently caused harm for gain or fame, or to our national security. Boy, that would be a very lengthy, complex process.


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## Alligatorob (Jan 23, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> One source I read said that, in the UK and Wales, more people died of the seasonal flu in pre-covid 2018 than died of covid between March 2020 to January 2022. But I'm going to look for data from other sources....this is just one.


This would be the useful thing to look at.  

I don't see anything much new in the video, we have always known that Covid most kills people with pre-existing conditions.  What matters is are more people dying because of Covid than would die without it.  Would many of these people with pre-existing conditions have died anyway?  From the normal flu for example.  Or did Covid tip the scales?  And how many of course.

This seems to me to be a really important question, I don't know why answers are so hard to find.

It always appears to me that news reports tend to just be story telling to support one side or another, its really hard to find objective even handed...


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## win231 (Jan 23, 2022)

Shero said:


> You already have "accountability" . A lot of unvaccinated dead. What more do you want
> .


Seulement dans votre monde.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 23, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> This would be the useful thing to look at.
> 
> I don't see anything much new in the video, we have always known that Covid most kills people with pre-existing conditions. * What matters is are more people dying because of Covid than would die without it. * Would many of these people with pre-existing conditions have died anyway?  From the normal flu for example.  Or did Covid tip the scales?  And how many of course.
> 
> ...


In the video, that number is represented as ...I think it was called "excess death"? Something like that. The number does lack details, but it's pretty much a given that covid infection caused an earlier death for those patients. If I remember right, the video says only weeks or months earlier in some cases, and about 5 years in others. (I'll have to re-watch it)

My take-away from the video is that inaccurate, misleading data was used to incite fear purposefully, over-reach blanket policies were absolutely unnecessary, and politicians and "big pharma" used inaccurate data opportunistically.


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## Alligatorob (Jan 23, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> inaccurate, misleading data


Yes, I agree, there has been far too much of that, on both sides!


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## chic (Jan 24, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> That will happen when / if law suits are filed, which won't result in jail time. But you know as well as I that no gov't officials will be held responsible except through congressional investigations and hearings.
> 
> I can cut slack for the upper tier gov't officials (the policy creators) who are not medically knowledgeable and acted on advice from their own experts, the WHO, and the CDC. In my opinion, it's the likes of the latter 3 who need investigating and guilty parties prosecuted - the guilty being those who knowingly or negligently caused harm for gain or fame, or to our national security. Boy, that would be a very lengthy, complex process.


If this were considered a crime against humanity, and it should be, the courts could work very quickly indeed. They have done it before.


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## chic (Jan 28, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> That will happen when / if law suits are filed, which won't result in jail time. But you know as well as I that no gov't officials will be held responsible except through congressional investigations and hearings.
> 
> I can cut slack for the upper tier gov't officials (the policy creators) who are not medically knowledgeable and acted on advice from their own experts, the WHO, and the CDC. In my opinion, it's the likes of the latter 3 who need investigating and guilty parties prosecuted - the guilty being those who knowingly or negligently caused harm for gain or fame, or to our national security. Boy, that would be a very lengthy, complex process.


Not me. I guess we must agree to disagree on this point. I see government leaders as worse than complicit. They were the directors of operations. They were not acting out of ignorance but out of lust for perpetual power through subjugation and control of the masses while lining their own pockets with the wealth gained from the unnecesaary measures that were mandated at their insistence in full knowledge that there was, in fact, nothing to fear, which is why they were caught partying, or otherwise breaking the rules themselves while instructing that the average citizen be arrested for doing the same. These world leaders deserve to face the largest public trial for crimes against humanity ever held, something nations the world over will remember longer than 90 years. Average citizens may need to fight to make this happen. 

We need another Magna Carta.


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