# Mature Dating - Part 2:  Be Upfront About What You Want



## SifuPhil

Being upfront about what you want is very important. You need to discuss your relationship goals with the other person. If you are not 
interested in your date as someone to be in a relationship with, it is a good idea to tell them. Be upfront and never lead them on. You can 
just tell them you aren't ready for a relationship with them or they aren't your type. Give them an honest reason. 


*Be Honest *

Don't be afraid to let your date know that you don't want to be with them. It may hurt them but break it to them lightly and let them know 
the two of you can always be friends. Their feelings might be crushed but at least you won't have to beat around the bush. They've probably 
faced rejection before in their lives, so don't stress too much about it. 

Make sure you treat them as a special friend, and if there is anything you can do for them let you know. 

If you are a man or woman who is looking for something specific, then you don't necessarily have to tell your date but it _is_ a good idea. 

For example, if you are looking for a guy who has a sense of humor and does most of the talking - let them know that. However, this could backfire on the both of you. He could easily try to change his personality and it might cause him to be uncomfortable around you. If that's not who he really is but he is just trying to impress you, it may be incredibly difficult for him. What if you want something specific and get something totally different? 

Sometimes change is good for a person. Even though you are quite specific and upfront about what you want, you should still allow people to come into your life who are slightly different then what you would expect. 

If you are upfront about what you want and your date does not try to sacrifice a few things for you, it is probably best to move on. For example, let's say your date only eats sushi and you your diet only consists of cooked meat. You may have a dispute about where to go. If they have never tried sushi, they can always give it a go just this once. 

This is called making a sacrifice. Remember that you can let them know there are other things on the menu they can enjoy like soups too. A person who truly is into you will do this from time to time, but it is a good idea to allow them to choose some activities that they'd like to participate in as well - balance in relationships, as in all things in life, is essential.


----------



## Anne

They used to say it's better to date someone you grew up wth, so you know their family; what kind of a person they are, their religious beliefs, if any, and you had something in common. 
  There weren't any guarantees of course, but it made things a bit easier to begin with.   These days that's not always possible, tho.


----------



## That Guy

I have reconnected with some girls I knew in high school.  It was fun for awhile . . .


----------



## SifuPhil

Anne said:


> They used to say it's better to date someone you grew up wth, so you know their family; what kind of a person they are, their religious beliefs, if any, and you had something in common.
> 
> There weren't any guarantees of course, but it made things a bit easier to begin with.   These days that's not always possible, tho.



Unfortunately, Anne, I think that world has pretty much vanished except perhaps in a few small, isolated pockets.

Nowadays we don't KNOW our neighbors; we (or they) move constantly. We have taken to "cocooning" so that our only contact with the real world is through the keyboard or in front of the television tube. We live vicariously.

Our neighbors now, even if we WERE to get to know them, would most likely be of a different religion, race, creed or political belief. 

We're no longer the UNITED STATES of America; we're now the DISJOINTED PLACES of America. We have no commonalities with each other, except in negligible ways ("You bought a Prius? _I_ bought a Prius, too!")

Now, even if through some miracle we DO manage to know the parents that's no guarantee that when we date Junior he won't turn out to be the next mass-murdering terrorist. People "snap" now for a variety of reasons, FAR more than they did in years past. There are too many stressors, too many unknowns in our society now, and too many people are living in fear - one of the reasons I wrote this series of articles, which are excerpts from an ebook I wrote. 

I WISH I could know my neighbors again the way I did growing up in NY - there was always that sense of being able to rely upon them in an emergency, or even just to chat with them on the back porch while sharing a few bottles of Pepsi. But at least for me and my kind, the Gypsies of the New Age who have no roots, that's just a distant dream now.


----------



## Anne

:upset:  You said it all, Phil....those like me, who would like to go back to the '50's (or think we'd like to....lots of things we don't remember back there), just want simpler times.  No worries of terrorism, child abusers....well, there were those, but I doubt nearly as many.   That world is gone, for sure.

I know my neighbors, and do feel I could count on them in an emergency, but as far as visiting, it doesn't happen.  Think we discussed that in another thread....don't wanna hijack this one.

As for dating, if I were ever alone, doubt I would do any dating.  Too dang complicated!!!     You've good ideas there tho, for those who do.


----------



## SifuPhil

Anne said:


> :upset:  You said it all, Phil....those like me, who would like to go back to the '50's (or think we'd like to....lots of things we don't remember back there), just want simpler times.  No worries of terrorism, child abusers....well, there were those, but I doubt nearly as many.   That world is gone, for sure.



That's been an on-going topic of debate on the forums I take part in - WAS the world really different, or (as the detractors say) it's just a case of massive media coverage now?

I still like to think - no, I *insist* - that the world _was_ a better place then. I know each succeeding generation says the same thing, but you know what? They're right!



> I know my neighbors, and do feel I could count on them in an emergency, but as far as visiting, it doesn't happen.  Think we discussed that in another thread....don't wanna hijack this one.



You still have a leg up on me - my neighbors are locked in their apartments and double-blocks, don't come out unless they're getting in their cars, and I don't know them at all. Of course I haven't made any effort in that direction, but I'm a monk - I don't WANT to know them. 



> As for dating, if I were ever alone, doubt I would do any dating.  Too dang complicated!!!     You've good ideas there tho, for those who do.



Some people just seem to have a psychological need to be with others - it's for _them_ I wrote the book.  

But I agree - it IS complicated, at least until you get the hang of the new "way".


----------



## Anne

SifuPhil said:


> That's been an on-going topic of debate on the forums I take part in - WAS the world really different, or (as the detractors say) it's just a case of massive media coverage now?
> I still like to think - no, I *insist* - that the world _was_ a better place then. I know each succeeding generation says the same thing, but you know what? They're right!



The media certainly plays a part..now we hear about things going on everywhere, instead of just our own part of the world.  But people have changed - there were always greedy, selfish people, but I don't think there were as many as there is now.  Politicians 'used to' work for the people, to an extent, anyway.  Now, it's all money and the squeaky wheel gets the grease; to he!! with the average person wanting a good job, decent wages, and a better life for their family.  
I can't help but think that religion played a part there - it taught some of us to 'toe the line', live by the golden rule, and be responsible for your own behavior, OR take that 'walk to the woodshed', and pick out your own stick.     Kept us in line, tho.   



> You still have a leg up on me - my neighbors are locked in their apartments and double-blocks, don't come out unless they're getting in their cars, and I don't know them at all. Of course I haven't made any effort in that direction, but I'm a monk - I don't WANT to know them.



If I lived in the city, I'd probably agree....here, I want to know my neighbors, and I do, to an extent.  Just don't see the closeness that there seemed to be even 20 years ago.



> Some people just seem to have a psychological need to be with others - it's for _them_ I wrote the book.
> 
> But I agree - it IS complicated, at least until you get the hang of the new "way".



Good for you, SifuPhil!!  Most of us need *someone*....and times have certainly changed.


----------



## Anne

ARRRGGHHH....that turned out all wrong...sorry.


----------



## SifuPhil

Anne said:


> ARRRGGHHH....that turned out all wrong...sorry.





You mean, you thought I was one of the ones that needed?

Understandable mistake, but no, I really AM a monk. A Taoist monk, a _lay_ monk - not one of the ones that lives in a monastery, takes a vow of silence and swears off of sex, but one who lives _in_ the world without necessarily taking part in everything _in_ it. 

A lay Taoist monk's job is to spread the Way - knowledge and appreciation of the Tao, or the Universe. Whether that involves writing silly prose, performing therapeutic Qigong on a patient or teaching someone how to strike the Lung meridian just right to induce shortness of breath, it's all teaching.


----------



## Anne

No, no....I meant that my post turned out all wrong, as in quoting you and then answering.  It all ended up in one balloon and I didn't know how to 'fix' it, or delete the whole thng....if that makes sense.  

I don't know much about monks, or the Tao, but did think they were mostly secluded.  Seems an interesting choice of lifestyle....I'll have to go check out your site.


----------



## SifuPhil

Anne said:


> No, no....I meant that my post turned out all wrong, as in quoting you and then answering.  It all ended up in one balloon and I didn't know how to 'fix' it, or delete the whole thng....if that makes sense.
> 
> I don't know much about monks, or the Tao, but did think they were mostly secluded.  Seems an interesting choice of lifestyle....I'll have to go check out your site.



Ah, okay, I understand now.  

Sometimes just being off by one space with a quote bracket can do that - you don't want to know how many times I've done the same thing, then rushed to fix it.

Unfortunately my site - actually, all 14 sites - are down right now. I just switched web hosting companies this morning and my new location has not "propagated" through the system yet. Give me a couple of days to get everything back to where it was, because right now I'm just doing damage control - transferring hosts can sometimes be a traumatic thing. 







And not to get TOO far off-topic, but I'm afraid even my OWN sites won't give much of an explanation of my life-philosophy - they're either money-makers or reflect a general interest of mine. Due to being a day late in registration my original "Sifuphil.com" domain name, which was my "professional" site for my teaching, was lost a few years ago and I hadn't the heart to start over again after I retired.


----------



## TICA

"Mature dating", I'm having a hard time coming to terms with that phrase.   I guess there are a lot of people who have very different ideas about relationships and even the need to have relationships.  I've had two marriages, both of which ended on not good notes, cost me a small fortune to get out of and left me doubting my instincts when it comes to partners.  Obviously, the instincts were wrong.  My feelings now are that I wouldn't go looking for a new partner but I'm not against seeing someone if it happens.  I'm quite comfortable supporting myself and have family and friends and not lonely at all.  Do I like the idea of spending the rest of my life alone - of course not, but past experience has shown me that I'd rather do that then repeat past mistakes.  My problem was that "partners" really weren't partners at all.  My children have grown up and I don't need any more dependents.  To all of our members that have husbands/wives and true partners, I'll admit that at times I'm envious - but not for too long!!


----------



## pchinvegas

I'm with ya TICA , after divorcing for the last time in 97 and 2 relationships after that, I'm done and pretty damn happy. No DRAMA roller coaster and it's all good.
I do have to ask "Why did they put "Mature Dating" under Family? Ya'll from the South ? !!! Hahahaha


----------



## SifuPhil

pchinvegas said:


> I'm with ya TICA , after divorcing for the last time in 97 and 2 relationships after that, I'm done and pretty damn happy. No DRAMA roller coaster and it's all good.
> I do have to ask "Why did they put "Mature Dating" under Family? Ya'll from the South ? !!! Hahahaha



The "Family" category here contains the sub-cat "Relationships", so I thought it might be the best place for it.

No, not from the South, nor do I send out "Happy Birthday Uncle Daddy" cards ... layful: 

From both my research and personal experiences I've found that the great majority of people that have been married once, maybe twice, no longer put a lot of effort into dating. Certainly among the men, but surprisingly (given our Hallmark societal view of them) increasingly among women as well. 

I think Liz Taylor Syndrome is dying out ...


----------



## TICA

Tell us more about your research!!!   Sometimes I think that I'm being "odd" because I really don't put any emphasis on being married or even being in a relationship.   Would be curious to know if that comes from being married and having the marriage fail, or if that is just the way I am.


----------



## SifuPhil

TICA said:


> Tell us more about your research!!!   Sometimes I think that I'm being "odd" because I really don't put any emphasis on being married or even being in a relationship.   Would be curious to know if that comes from being married and having the marriage fail, or if that is just the way I am.



I don't think you're "odd" at all - in fact, join the club! 

After many long hours of both field and laboratory data-gathering and testing, using double-blind technique (both she and I wore blindfolds), a few hypothesis became apparent. 

One was that many older folk simply become set in their ways and no longer wish to sacrifice their comfort for the sake of marriage. They see their routines as being comforting and even lucky; to bring another person into the mix would mean running the chance of destroying all that comfort and good fortune.

Another point is that older adults often have adult children, and they've gotten past the point where they want to deal with drama and co-dependency with their full-sized progeny or (especially) that of their partners.

Single adults get to do whatever they want, without answering to anyone. This is a trait that becomes embedded in a person the older they become and the  longer they practice it, so it stands to reason that a mature person would have a statistically greater chance of having this trait and fighting to keep it for its perceived value.

Certainly having a bad experience - or several - in previous relationships can sour one's attitude toward future efforts. The old stereotype of a divorced man being "taken to the cleaners" has no doubt reinforced this way of seeing dating and marriage - thus is born misogyny. 

Last, at least for now, is the fact that the younger you are the more likely you are to want to start a family and keep close to someone, because it wasn't all that long ago that you were in that very situation as part of your family. You want to continue the perceived benefits of the family unit. As you get older and begin to drift apart from family, for whatever reason, you find that being by yourself is not so bad. Your perception changes once again and you begin to see some of the benefits of remaining single.


----------



## TICA

I totally agree.  I make all of the decisions and don't have to explain them to anyone.  I don't have to worry about what anyone thinks of me and being by myself is better than "not so bad".  In fact, I like my life now more than I ever have in the past.  I'm happy and healthy and have plans for my future.  Life is good for this gal!


----------



## That Guy

As much as I would enjoy having a sweet woman in my life once again, the ease of just doing whatever whenever and answering to no one is just too wonderful . . . at times.  After my wife and I divorced oh so long ago, I suddenly had the freedom to walk home from riding waves in the morning and go right up the stairs into a nice warm shower in my wetsuit without having to slough it off outside in the cold.  And later that day or the next, I no longer heard, "But you went surfing this morning" -- or -- "yesterday" -- or whatever.  Damn, I guess I am just a self-centered sonofabitch...


----------



## Anne

I don't see choosing to be single as selfish at all....used to be, people were expected to be married at a certain age, and I remember relatives saying, "So, when are you going to have children"??   It's just how it was, in most cases.   But, you also had others that you put ahead of yourselves then; and whatever else you might want to do was put on hold for whenever.....

  So, if you're by yourself and happy, that's nothing to feel bad about - there's no rule that says you "have" to be committed to anyone; or answer to anyone.  Enjoy!!


----------



## Ozarkgal

Speaking for myself, I love being married..but if hubby goes before me, would I do it again?  Never say never, but I sincerely doubt it.  Too much drama, and trying to fit into someone else's life and visa versa.  Also, I don't have kids, and don't want the complication of someone else's. Finding someone without kids would likely be difficult..they're as much a PITA when they're adults as when they're children.  

Darn, Phil..you took all my points, just noticed the kid one...and I didn't even have the fun of a blindfolded study!

Ann..it's true that it used to be expected.  Generally, people are waiting much longer to marry these days.  I think that's a good thing, and if marrying younger hadn't been expected back in the day, I probably wouldn't have married twice...or had a mother-in-law constantly asking when we were going to have kids..she'd still be waiting..LOL


----------



## SifuPhil

That Guy said:


> As much as I would enjoy having a sweet woman in my life once again, the ease of just doing whatever whenever and answering to no one is just too wonderful . . . at times.  After my wife and I divorced oh so long ago, I suddenly had the freedom to walk home from riding waves in the morning and go right up the stairs into a nice warm shower in my wetsuit without having to slough it off outside in the cold.  And later that day or the next, I no longer heard, "But you went surfing this morning" -- or -- "yesterday" -- or whatever.  Damn, I guess I am just a self-centered sonofabitch...



Yeah, it's the same way with me - I'm a selfish SOB as well. But isn't it better that we recognize that fact, and don't inflict ourselves on anyone? 



Anne said:


> I don't see choosing to be single as selfish at all....used to be, people were expected to be married at a certain age, and I remember relatives saying, "So, when are you going to have children"??   It's just how it was, in most cases.   But, you also had others that you put ahead of yourselves then; and whatever else you might want to do was put on hold for whenever.....



Self-sacrifice ... so often pushed on us. 



> So, if you're by yourself and happy, that's nothing to feel bad about - there's no rule that says you "have" to be committed to anyone; or answer to anyone.  Enjoy!!



Exactly!



Ozarkgal said:


> Darn, Phil..you took all my points, just noticed the kid one...and I didn't even have the fun of a blindfolded study!



If you'd like, I could send you a link to a blindfold wholesaler ...


----------



## pchinvegas

SifuPhil said:


> The "Family" category here contains the sub-cat "Relationships", so I thought it might be the best place for it.



No, not from the South, nor do I send out "Happy Birthday Uncle Daddy" cards ... layful: 

Hey, don't be Dissin "Uncle Daddy" he had all his teeth and made us laugh !


----------



## SifuPhil

pchinvegas said:


> Hey, don't be Dissin "Uncle Daddy" he had all his teeth and made us laugh !



Oh, I'm not a-dissin' 'em - troof be toll, they's musical!


----------



## Anne

Ozarkgal said:


> Speaking for myself, I love being married..but if hubby goes before me, would I do it again?  Never say never, but I sincerely doubt it.  Too much drama, and trying to fit into someone else's life and visa versa.  Also, I don't have kids, and don't want the complication of someone else's. Finding someone without kids would likely be difficult..they're as much a PITA when they're adults as when they're children.



    Ozarkgal, I like being married too, but doubt I would do it again if I were alone.   To think of starting all over; well, it's just too much trouble.  Plus, after so many years, we get so set in our ways!!

I have read about women who are divorced or widowed; who are just living with other women friends as opposed to finding a partner again - some even pooling their resources and buying a house together.  Guess that would work fine as long as you all got along well.


----------



## TICA

Anne said:


> Ozarkgal, I like being married too, but doubt I would do it again if I were alone.   To think of starting all over; well, it's just too much trouble.  Plus, after so many years, we get so set in our ways!!
> 
> I have read about women who are divorced or widowed; who are just living with other women friends as opposed to finding a partner again - some even pooling their resources and buying a house together.  Guess that would work fine as long as you all got along well.




I've often thought about living with other people who are single and are happy with that.  Doesn't matter if they are male or female, the whole "old folks commune" kind of appeals to me.


----------



## Ozarkgal

Yes, I think living with some other old gals would be fun, if you had some of the same interests. I had actually thought of building a sort of communal house with 3-4 wings where everyone would have their own master bedroom, bath and sitting area and a common kitchen and living room. I am sort of anal when it comes to cleaning and picking up after one's own self, and some people are not..


----------



## SifuPhil

Because I'm free, divorced and over 21 I've found that my penchant for moving at a moment's notice lends itself to renting furnished rooms instead of whole apartments. These set-ups usually include one room that is "yours" - your bedroom / living area combo - along with shared kitchen and bath facilities.

These are usually all-guy set-ups, so there's no worries about gender-blending. I'm not always happy with sharing the bathroom, but the kitchen is fine since I don't do any fancy cooking. 

These days in this area they go for around $125-150/wk.

I miss the old days, like in the B&W movies from the '30's and '40's that usually showed a "ROOMS FOR LET" sign in the window of some urban building. "Men's Rooming House" is another term that I've frequently seen in the movies, but rarely in real life.

I think the commune idea rocks!


----------



## TICA

Although I have never lived in a commune so don't know firsthand if it's true or not, I've been told that the downfall of the commune was that relationships got in the way of their effectiveness.   Too me, it totally makes sense that they would work better as people got older.
Divide up the chores and have lovely evenings around a campfire chatting and laughing.    As people got older and perhaps needed assistance, it makes too much sense to pool the resources and have a nurse or someone to help on site and save anyone from going to a nursing home.  The financing might get complicated, but if everyone went in on an equal basis, it might work.   OR some could contribute financing while others contribute in talent - whether that is cooking, gardening, or whatever.

I think as we get older, we appreciate the true meaning of friendship more and a commune could work.  I wonder if there are any out there already?


----------



## SifuPhil

TICA said:


> I think as we get older, we appreciate the true meaning of friendship more and a commune could work.  I wonder if there are any out there already?



The buzz word these days is "intentional communities" rather than "commune", but i think they're basically the same thing.

According to the *Fellowship for Intentional Community* there are over 100,000 U.S. citizens living in such arrangements. *Here's their directory* in case you want to start looking ...


----------



## Ozarkgal

TICA said:


> Although I have never lived in a commune so don't know firsthand if it's true or not, I've been told that the downfall of the commune was that relationships got in the way of their effectiveness.   Too me, it totally makes sense that they would work better as people got older.
> Divide up the chores and have lovely evenings around a campfire chatting and laughing.    As people got older and perhaps needed assistance, it makes too much sense to pool the resources and have a nurse or someone to help on site and save anyone from going to a nursing home.  The financing might get complicated, but if everyone went in on an equal basis, it might work.   OR some could contribute financing while others contribute in talent - whether that is cooking, gardening, or whatever.
> 
> I think as we get older, we appreciate the true meaning of friendship more and a commune could work. I wonder if there are any out there already?



 The only places I know of are assisted living homes...Bleeaach!!  As people get older, they usually get more set in their ways and not as flexible in accepting others ways, so that could be a drawback.  Also, there is still the relationship thing, families don't go away as you get older, sometimes they get more intrusive trying to stick up for their older loved ones.  I would like the idea of owning the place and just renting out space, that way if someone was totally incompatible with others or did not contribute to the overall living arrangement, they could be asked to leave and not have financial entanglement. 

All in all, an interesting concept, if I were alone I would be open to trying.

We have ventured off topic on dating here, but still an interesting conversation.


----------



## SifuPhil

Ozarkgal said:


> ... We have ventured off topic on dating here, but still an interesting conversation.



As long as Matrix doesn't have a problem with it, neither do I. I know there are many forums where the Topic Police are constantly on the prowl for the slightest deviation from the topic, but I've found that oftentimes the most interesting conversations result from such deviations.


----------



## Ozarkgal

SifuPhil said:


> I miss the old days, like in the B&W movies from the '30's and '40's that usually showed a "ROOMS FOR LET" sign in the window of some urban building. "Men's Rooming House" is another term that I've frequently seen in the movies, but rarely in real life.
> 
> I think the commune idea rocks!



Phil, I remember when ROOMS FOR LET were very common.  In fact, my mother and I lived in one such place for awhile, shortly after moving to Memphis.  It was owned by an old German couple that were concentration camp survivors.  It was one of those large 3 story older houses that was divided up into small apartments.  The owners lived on the first floor, and there were three apartments on the second floor and one on the third.  There were only two other families living there, and we all got along great, visiting each other and watching television together in the evening. Us kids  would go from apartment to apartment, and since we were all in the same house our parents knew where we were.  This was in the '50's.

There are not many of these types of houses left that are conducive to room letting, and ones that are still standing have generally fallen into ghetto areas and uninhabitable by sane people.  There are some former very beautiful houses in an area of Dallas that still have rooms for rent.  Sadly, they are jewels that have seen their better days.


----------



## That Guy

What I want, eh?  Allow me to begin paring down my wish list . . .

Realistically, I think . . . someone easy going with a killer sense of humor who I find and who finds me both physically and intelligently attractive.  That oughta be a sinch...    So, now (re:  Part #3) to lure them into a dark alley.

OH!  That brings to mind that great book, "The Collector"; fascinating and creepy.


----------



## SifuPhil

I've had some of my best - and worst - times in dark alleys, so I'm sort of conflicted here ...

But I think the use of the word "lure" clinched it for me - I have a full tackle-box.


----------



## Anne

That Guy said:


> What I want, eh?  Allow me to begin paring down my wish list . . .
> 
> Realistically, I think . . . someone easy going with a killer sense of humor who I find and who finds me both physically and intelligently attractive.  That oughta be a sinch...    So, now (re:  Part #3) to lure them into a dark alley.
> 
> OH!  That brings to mind that great book, "The Collector"; fascinating and creepy.



If that is the same story as the movie I just saw by the same name....I absolutely will never read it.  CREEPY!!


----------



## That Guy

Anne said:


> If that is the same story as the movie I just saw by the same name....I absolutely will never read it.  CREEPY!!



Yes.  Made in 1965 starring Terence Stamp and Samantha Eggar.  Great book and well done movie.


----------



## Anne

That Guy said:


> Yes.  Made in 1965 starring Terence Stamp and Samantha Eggar.  Great book and well done movie.



I LOVE scary stories, but the movie (made in 2009)  was very violent and gory.  Most likely the first one was not like that; I think they are scarier without all the graphic stuff.  

Or maybe this is an entirely different story, too.   I'll have to look it up.....going OT here again.


----------



## SeaSparkle

I'm gonna be a sister wife :untroubled:


----------



## That Guy

Anne said:


> I LOVE scary stories, but the movie (made in 2009)  was very violent and gory.  Most likely the first one was not like that; I think they are scarier without all the graphic stuff.
> 
> Or maybe this is an entirely different story, too.   I'll have to look it up.....going OT here again.



Yeah, I looked it up and was disappointed to see an abomination made in 2009.  Well, the good and original flick still exists and you can't beat that.  I agree that they are much scarier without the graphic stuff.  Hitchcock was the master of that.  Suuuuusssssssp . . . . . ense!


----------

