# So Low Tonight



## officerripley (Nov 10, 2020)

Background (I'll try to make it quick): My late Mom & Stepdad had a Trust rather than a will. After they both died, my brother & I who they named as successor trustees discovered some people owed the parents $$. So it's been a complicated, stressful mess (for the last 8! years) to try to get these people to pay so we can close the Trust. Then brother passed away suddenly (heart) this last June so now I'm dealing with this by myself. Brothers death took the wind out of my sails to the point that I decided I can't deal with this much longer so after much back & forth, I got the other inheritors of my parents' estate (my sister, a stepsister, and my nephew) to agree to offer the debtors a discount so they'd finally pay it off & we could close the Trust. So I thought things were going along surprisingly good--my sister is bi-polar (sometimes I think she's a sociopath instead--but has been behaving rationally & treating me agreeably--which she never has before--I thought she was being so much better lately because 1 of her grown kids died suddenly last year and it shook her up enough to act better.

But no. The lawyer helping me with all this said she called his office today throwing a fit because "the other inheritors are holding things up" on her getting her check of her share of the payoff, etc. Well, WTH?! I never told her that, I told her that I was waiting on the lawyer for the letter to enclose with these final checks to her and us other inheritors. Lawyer says PLEASE call her & tell her what's going on. Well, I have been letting her know what's going but I called her AGAIN; had to leave a msg because she's suddenly not returning my calls.

It's so discouraging; I thought that maybe she had finally become less volatile and that maybe she and I could finally get along halfway decently with each other for the first time in our lives & this is kinda cool because we're no spring chickens, not much time left, etc. And I thought that me calling her a lot to keep her updated was helping her moods too but apparently not; like they say I guess, no good deed goes unpunished.

Thanks for listening; it's been like this with her all our lives and the fact that I thought it was finally getting better but was so wrong has just really got me down. Guess I'm getting too old for this cr*p, this going up and down with her really upsets me and gets me down. Again, thanks for listening.


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## old medic (Nov 10, 2020)

Hate to see you going through this.... Prayers to stay strong...
We had crazy family come out of the wood work when the mother in law died...
she left her estate to the under 21 grand and 1 great grand kids..
suddenly the one daughter that disappeared 30 years ago showed up with 3 more


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## MarciKS (Nov 10, 2020)

Sorry you're having to go through this. You know it's sad when all people care about is their portion of the money. I hope things get better soon.


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## Jules (Nov 10, 2020)

What a mess.  

Put all the facts in writing.  Send it to her & the others too.  Say what the lawyer said.


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## Gary O' (Nov 11, 2020)

*So Low Tonight*




officerripley said:


> Guess I'm getting too old for this cr*p, this going up and down with her really upsets me and gets me down. Again, thanks for listening.



Sometimes being low is a good thing
Especially when there's a legit reason
Rather therapeutic 

After kicking it around the ol' bean, sometimes music can be a nice respite

Hoping for better days for ya


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## Butterfly (Nov 15, 2020)

Officerripley, one of the things I've learned in life is that there are just some people with whom you can never have a satisfying relationship, and in those cases it is just better to just quit hoping for it to happen and accept that it's never gonna happen and just move on.

You can't control the way other people behave or react to you, no matter how hard you try.  Her behavior isn't your fault and reflects on her, not on you.  Just let her go.


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## officerripley (Nov 16, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> *So Low Tonight*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, Gary.


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## officerripley (Nov 16, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> Officerripley, one of the things I've learned in life is that there are just some people with whom you can never have a satisfying relationship, and in those cases it is just better to just quit hoping for it to happen and accept that it's never gonna happen and just move on.
> 
> You can't control the way other people behave or react to you, no matter how hard you try.  Her behavior isn't your fault and reflects on her, not on you.  Just let her go.


Thank, Butterfly, so true. It is harder to let people go when it's a family member, of course, but I do try.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 16, 2020)

My baby sister has mental illness. She's primarily manic-depressive, and most the time she's in a manic state. My brother keeps expecting her to snap out of it or act normal for long periods, or at least around him. Well, she just can't and that drives him nuts, and for some reason he thinks he can make her more normal, I guess, by heaping responsibilities on her. She'll do fine for a while because she wants to show him she can do these things, but then she crashes and it's horrible for her, makes her feel useless. I told him that if he'd just give her a thing at a time, with clear instructions or whatever, she could handle it, and he does that for a while but then he reverts.

I'm starting to ramble. I guess my point is to maybe let your sister decompress for a while - keep her out of the loop, at least on the down side of things and see if that helps. I sort of sugar-coat things for my sister or she imagines the worst of the worst until she winds up believing things are the absolute worst, and she can't stop dwelling on it. And that's torture for her.


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## MarciKS (Nov 16, 2020)

I hate when a person is mentally ill or struggling with depression or anxiety and someone tells them to "just snap out of it." Someone said that to me the other night at work and I walked away from her. People just don't get it.


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## Kaila (Nov 16, 2020)

@officerripley 
That's a very difficult situation, and so ongoing, over so much time.
I too find that these things become harder to cope with, at times, when we are getting older.
Very draining and discouraging, these types of situations.  Some moments feel worse than others.

I try to find times that I can give myself a break from thinking about these types of situations that I find myself in.
I try to rest myself with breaks from them.  It would help if we could resolve any small parts of them, but not always possible.


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## Kaila (Nov 16, 2020)

@officerripley 
I forgot to add, I am so sorry for your loss of your brother.  Difficult in itself, and makes the other challenges sadder, also.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 16, 2020)

Kaila said:


> @officerripley
> I try to find times that I can give myself a break from thinking about these types of situations that I find myself in.
> 
> I try to rest myself with breaks from them.  It would help if we could resolve any small parts of them, but not always possible.


That's good advice. My personal choice for like a 15 minute spa is to sit with my feet in a big bowl of warm water while I drink hot tea and listen to music.


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## Phoenix (Nov 16, 2020)

Is you sister on medication for her mental deficiencies?  If so that complicates things.  I had a brother who was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic.  It came out at his murder trial.  He was on multiple medications.  He finally snapped.  I tried to help him for years even while he was in jail.  By then he was medication free.  No matter what I did and said, it was wrong.  He was trying to control me.  For my own sanity I had to cut him off.  I didn't even tell him when our mother died.  He found out from the attorney in the settling of Mom's estate.  Then he demanded I tend to him, not let him rot in prison.  There's a long list of things he did.  His mind did not function right.  There were a number of reasons.  I unlisted my phone.  He sent letters.  I told the post office about not wanting to get the letters, and they said to write refused on the letters he sent me, that would tell the prison to not allow him to send to me.  It cut me up to do that.  I loved/love my brother.  Then when he died I was contacted by the prison in the middle of the night.  I was the one he trusted to handle his estate.  I'm telling you this because when a person is mentally ill often the only thing you can do is take all the steps you can to keep them away from you.  I suggest you tell the attorney the situation and that you will not initiate contact with your sister again.  I am sorry for your losses.  It does make it a lot more difficult.  All my close family is gone now.


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## 911 (Nov 16, 2020)

Did she go off of her meds? She really needs to understand that harassing the lawyer isn't going to speed things along. Sometimes, things just do not progress as you wished they did, but that's life.


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## officerripley (Nov 16, 2020)

Thanks for the kinds words, all. I think that Sis does go off her meds--for bi-polar disorder--sometimes. The only way I have found that I can stand to deal with her--and it doesn't even always work, just sometimes--is to take some advice about how to deal with sociopaths/psychopaths. I read about a psychologist who was working on a project that necessitated her asking questions of prisoners who had been deemed to be s/p's. She found that it was best if she was cordial but showed no emotion; if 1 of them even asked her how her weekend was, she with a neutral look on her face, just replied, "Fine." She said that with them, if she showed any emotion at all, they'd try to use it to play verbal games with her; that s/p's consider other people's emotions to be something that they can use for their own benefit or amusement. (I tried telling my mom--who enabled my sis all the time--"You know it's possible that she's not bi-polar; she might be a sociopath, the way she never has cared at all about other people's feelings unless she can use them." Welp, that didn't go over well at all.)


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## Pepper (Nov 16, 2020)

What a great bunch of people all you guys are.  A member comes with a problem and you rush to help.


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## Phoenix (Nov 16, 2020)

officerripley said:


> Thanks for the kinds words, all. I think that Sis does go off her meds--for bi-polar disorder--sometimes. The only way I have found that I can stand to deal with her--and it doesn't even always work, just sometimes--is to take some advice about how to deal with sociopaths/psychopaths. I read about a psychologist who was working on a project that necessitated her asking questions of prisoners who had been deemed to be s/p's. She found that it was best if she was cordial but showed no emotion; if 1 of them even asked her how her weekend was, she with a neutral look on her face, just replied, "Fine." She said that with them, if she showed any emotion at all, they'd try to use it to play verbal games with her; that s/p's consider other people's emotions to be something that they can use for their own benefit or amusement. (I tried telling my mom--who enabled my sis all the time--"You know it's possible that she's not bi-polar; she might be a sociopath, the way she never has cared at all about other people's feelings unless she can use them." Welp, that didn't go over well at all.)


Your mom did what she felt was right.  Mine did too.  My mom just thought that with enough love and Jesus, my brother would improve.  He was incapable of that.  So my best advice is to do all you can to protect yourself from her.  She is always likely to use whatever she can against you.  Take care of you, first.  I know that may sound like I'm promoting selfishness, but I'm not.  I'm promoting your survival and your sanity.


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## officerripley (Nov 16, 2020)

Phoenix said:


> Your mom did what she felt was right.  Mine did too.  My mom just thought that with enough love and Jesus, my brother would improve.  He was incapable of that.  So my best advice is to do all you can to protect yourself from her.  She is always likely to use whatever she can against you.  Take care of you, first.  I know that may sound like I'm promoting selfishness, but I'm not.  I'm promoting your survival and your sanity.


thanks, Phoenix. I've come to think that too. It makes me sad sometimes, but you're right: I can only take care of myself (espec. at this old age!).


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## Phoenix (Nov 16, 2020)

officerripley said:


> thanks, Phoenix. I've come to think that too. It makes me sad sometimes, but you're right: I can only take care of myself (espec. at this old age!).


It is harder to deal with the older we get.  There just isn't the energy to put up with other people's shenanigans and inner ugliness.  The problems they have are theirs, not yours/ours.  I used to try to figure out how to fix my brother.  As we were growing up, I got along with him because I never openly challenged him.  But there came a time I had to make a stand for what was right, and he turned on me, flat out.  He even threatened me after he was in prison.  Now, as a student of psychology, I understood it.  But as a little sister, it broke my heart every day for years and made me so afraid.  I had to overcome my fear through self-modification of my behavior.  I would tell the guys I dated about him and that by being with me they might not be safe.   Love yourself first, please.


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## AnnieA (Nov 16, 2020)

officerripley said:


> Thank, Butterfly, so true. It is harder to let people go when it's a family member, of course, but I do try.


It is. There's so much written and acted about unrequited romantic love, but the sadness family causes is more often deeper.  After so many years, you've still hoped for a positive connection with her.  

People can have both a biochemical disorder and a personality disorder.   From your account, she very well may have both.  If so, the combination of both she's not dealt with for so many years doesn't offer much hope.  I'm sad for/with you.


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## officerripley (Nov 16, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> It is. There's so much written and acted about unrequited romantic love, but the sadness family causes is more often deeper.  After so many years, you've still hoped for a positive connection with her.
> 
> People can have both a biochemical disorder and a personality disorder.   From your account, she very well may have both.  If so, the combination of both she's not dealt with for so many years doesn't offer much hope.  I'm sad for/with you.


Thanks, Annie.


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## Phoenix (Nov 16, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> It is. There's so much written and acted about unrequited romantic love, but the sadness family causes is more often deeper.  After so many years, you've still hoped for a positive connection with her.


Yes, there is often the ongoing hope that if one keeps trying it will change things.  Another problem can be caused by the medication they gave her.  It can do horrendous damage.  Sometimes they label something and treat the person according to the label.


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## officerripley (Nov 16, 2020)

Phoenix said:


> It is harder to deal with the older we get.  There just isn't the energy to put up with other people's shenanigans and inner ugliness.  The problems they have are theirs, not yours/ours.  I used to try to figure out how to fix my brother.  As we were growing up, I got along with him because I never openly challenged him.  But there came a time I had to make a stand for what was right, and he turned on me, flat out.  He even threatened me after he was in prison.  Now, as a student of psychology, I understood it.  But as a little sister, it broke my heart every day for years and made me so afraid.  I had to overcome my fear through self-modification of my behavior.  I would tell the guys I dated about him and that by being with me they might not be safe.   Love yourself first, please.


How did you overcome your fear, Phoenix? I'm not familiar with the self-modification of behavior, but I need to learn. I'm so tired of being fearful and nervous and worried all the time.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Nov 16, 2020)

We have depression in our family also so my thoughts are with you as you work your way through this difficult time.


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## officerripley (Nov 16, 2020)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> We have depression in our family also so my thoughts are with you as you work your way through this difficult time.


Thanks, Ruth.


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## Phoenix (Nov 16, 2020)

officerripley said:


> How did you overcome your fear, Phoenix? I'm not familiar with the self-modification of behavior, but I need to learn. I'm so tired of being fearful and nervous and worried all the time.


I took a class in college on it as part of my course work.  So after the murders when I was terrified all the time, I got out my text book and was able to design a strategy, a series of step to take to get over the fear a little at a time.  The book is still available, as it turns out.   
The book is called _Self-Directed Behavior:  Self-Modification for Personal Adjustment_ by David L. Watson and Roland Tharp.  The one I have is 1972.  I looked it up.  I found it on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/Self-Directed-Behavior-Self-Modification-Personal-Adjustment/dp/1285077091
And at https://books.google.com/books/about/Self_Directed_Behavior_Self_Modification.html?id=uYEWAAAAQBAJ
This is what the write up says:

Achieve your life goals with SELF-DIRECTED BEHAVIOR! Featuring numerous research-based strategies, this psychology book guides you through exercises for developing skills in self-analysis and teaches you how to apply these skills in different settings. Case examples demonstrate how others have successfully used the book's techniques, including one individual who used shaping to gradually increase her ability to study, and another who learned to be more sure of himself on dates by consciously modeling a friend's confident behavior. 

By using this guide, I got over it.  Once in a while the fear would sneak back in, but I got rid of it again.  I wouldn't be nearly as okay now if I hadn't done this.  Let me know if you have difficulty finding it.


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## officerripley (Nov 16, 2020)

Phoenix said:


> I took a class in college on it as part of my course work.  So after the murders when I was terrified all the time, I got out my text book and was able to design a strategy, a series of step to take to get over the fear a little at a time.  The book is still available, as it turns out.
> The book is called _Self-Directed Behavior:  Self-Modification for Personal Adjustment_ by David L. Watson and Roland Tharp.  The one I have is 1972.  I looked it up.  I found it on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/Self-Directed-Behavior-Self-Modification-Personal-Adjustment/dp/1285077091
> And at https://books.google.com/books/about/Self_Directed_Behavior_Self_Modification.html?id=uYEWAAAAQBAJ
> This is what the write up says:
> ...


Wow, thanks, Phoenix; I found it and just ordered it on my book swap site! This site has the greatest people ever on it!


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## Phoenix (Nov 17, 2020)

officerripley said:


> Wow, thanks, Phoenix; I found it and just ordered it on my book swap site! This site has the greatest people ever on it!


You're welcome.  I hope it helps.  It sure did me.  It's based on the work of B. F. Skinner a behaviorist psychologist.


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