# consumer-directed health care is a big fat joke



## flowerchild (Jan 23, 2015)

Obamacare is high on my dislike agenda. Not only do we, the middle class, have 50% more out of pocket cost for deductibles and co-pays, we also have real majorly differences in costs for care. Seems to be a real mess.
Saw this in the paper today. Comparisons in some of the charges per hospital. 
Surgery Costs vary widely <<<click here

 US hospitals, you may or may not know, get fed. funding thru customer satisfaction ratings these days, via Press Ganey reports. This drives the cost of healthcare per hospital. So this may be the factor in the differences in cost. The higher the customer satisfaction  % results in more money(reimbursements) they get in gov. funding. We as the customers end up paying the difference in charges from what's being paid by the Insurance co. and what the cost the hospital charges.


> Health care pricing is "all driven by the reimbursement system," namely insurance companies and government Medicare and Medicaid





> Factors including the cost to operate a facility, the mix of public and private insurance and charity care, and the need for a wide network of providers affect the prices insurers pay



 This, to me, is part of the problem:


> Some employer-provided plans reward workers for going to certain doctors and hospitals that have higher quality and lower prices, a practice BCBS supports.


The HMO's limit people from finding healthcare somewhere they choose. In other words, sometimes your just stuck paying what they ask.


> Spiraling health care costs, higher insurance plan deductibles and increased cost sharing have made procedure prices more important than ever to consumers. Insurers are also tired of paying ever-higher prices for treatments they say shouldn't change so much year to year — and certainly not hospital to hospital in the same region.



I feel this a real problem and very unfair. Due to Obamacare's fine line rules that no one caught before the bill was iron penned, is a gut retching, money sucking problem for those of us on the brink of retirement and trying to save a few bucks to get there.

Anyone have anything good to say about Obamacare? So far I'm not having any good thoughts.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

I LOVE the ACA.... because of it my son is finally receiving the care he needs that we could not previously afford.   NO problems.... no red tape... just good care... I thank GOD every day that it was implemented..  I don't think my son would be alive if not for "ObamaCARE"     Thank GOD Obama cared... I am forever grateful.

AND as more and more people enroll, the premium increases have been reduced to just 3% instead of the usual double digit increase seen before..  and it's costing the Feds a whole lot less than projected..   Not sure why some folks don't want fellow Americans to have healthcare...  sad..

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/obamacare-premium-increase-2015-105685.html


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## flowerchild (Jan 23, 2015)

That's good, and your son must fall into the class the gov. pays for. Like my sons as well. They can get healthcare assistance as well, this is good. But when I was that age I worked and found jobs that provided health insurance of some kind. Many businesses have dropped that coverage instead, allowing the gov. to take care of that. 
It was a system that I thought worked. We may not have had BCBS, and maybe it was a limited Ins. but we had it.
Every time the gov. steps into things like this it costs the middle class some more. Wonder what the % of low income to high divide is now?
In the beginning, Obamacare, was supposed to be affordable to all. So far I'm seeing the increase in cost for everyone to have it in my lap, the middle class worker.
My out of pocket cost for healthcare went from an ave. $3000 to $8000 in 2 years. The costs have increase again this year by almost 50%. That's a big chunk of change. I'm on a budget, semi strick one and I know my fellow workers are in the same boat. I'll be lucky to afford groceries and the same luxuries I've worked to obtain. Pay scales have only increase 2% per year for many years. This does not hardly keep up with inflation, let alone have to pay the extra costs for healthcare.


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## Ken N Tx (Jan 23, 2015)

flowerchild said:


> That's good, and your son must fall into the class the gov. pays for. Like my sons as well. They can get healthcare assistance as well, this is good. But when I was that age I worked and found jobs that provided health insurance of some kind. Many businesses have dropped that coverage instead, allowing the gov. to take care of that.
> It was a system that I thought worked. We may not have had BCBS, and maybe it was a limited Ins. but we had it.
> Every time the gov. steps into things like this it costs the middle class some more. Wonder what the % of low income to high divide is now?
> In the beginning, Obamacare, was supposed to be affordable to all. So far I'm seeing the increase in cost for everyone to have it in my lap, the middle class worker.
> My out of pocket cost for healthcare went from an ave. $3000 to $8000 in 2 years. The costs have increase again this year by almost 50%. That's a big chunk of change. I'm on a budget, semi strick one and I know my fellow workers are in the same boat. I'll be lucky to afford groceries and the same luxuries I've worked to obtain. Pay scales have only increase 2% per year for many years. This does not hardly keep up with inflation, let alone have to pay the extra costs for healthcare.



Supplemental Insurance.Medicare and Drug Premiums for Seniors is killing us!! No help there..

Cost of Living raises are a joke!!!!


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

Ken N Tx said:


> Supplemental Insurance.Medicare and Drug Premiums for Seniors is killing us!! No help there..View attachment 13405
> 
> Cost of Living raises are a joke!!!!



Medicare part A is free...  Part B is what?.. $104 a month and a decent supplemental costs around $300-$400 every six months? (that's what my SIL pays)   or $50 a month.  I am not familiar with the premium for Part D Medicare..  It depends I guess on what drugs you need. 

I have group insurance through my employer and I pay $350 a month for that. I have copays and deductibles to meet.


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## Ken N Tx (Jan 23, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Medicare part A is free...  Part B is what?.. $104 a month and a decent supplemental costs around $300-$400 every six months? (that's what my SIL pays)   or $50 a month.  I am not familiar with the premium for Part D Medicare..  It depends I guess on what drugs you need.
> 
> I have group insurance through my employer and I pay $350 a month for that. I have copays and deductibles to meet.



I hope and pray your SIL never needs to go into the hospital!!!!


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## flowerchild (Jan 23, 2015)

Ken N Tx said:


> Supplemental Insurance.Medicare and Drug Premiums for Seniors is killing us!! No help there..View attachment 13405
> 
> Cost of Living raises are a joke!!!!


Oh ya I forgot to mention the limited pharmaceuticals available this year on top of the increase in costs.
I was wondering if this was strapping the Medicare folks too. Guess it would be.
So again, who's enjoying the new benefits?


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## flowerchild (Jan 23, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Medicare part A is free...  Part B is what?.. $104 a month and a decent supplemental costs around $300-$400 every six months? (that's what my SIL pays)   or $50 a month.  I am not familiar with the premium for Part D Medicare..  It depends I guess on what drugs you need.
> 
> I have group insurance through my employer and I pay $350 a month for that. I have copays and deductibles to meet.



My hubs gets Medicare part D. It does help some since he'd disabled. But every month he play the roulette game thru the Pharmacies to find the cheaper drug costs and who got the meds he needs.
I pay before tax and % of my premium, my employer pays the better half. Medical, Dental, and eyecare are paid all separately. About $350 a month. This cost I cannot claim for any reimbursement on taxes. Flat out of my pocket and increased 50% this year. The rest is costs for co-pays and deductibles. 
I don't believe we got a raise this year at all either. At 2%, that's just mo money for uncle sam....anyway. doesn't even begin to make a difference. Hubs got a whopping $10 raise this year, whoa, was I impressed!!!! That'll just about pay for a gal. of milk and bottle of soda.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

Ken N Tx said:


> I hope and pray your SIL never needs to go into the hospital!!!!



   Hospital stays are covered under Medicare part A.. and are paid in full, except the $1200 deductible that is covered by the Supplement.   Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation out there about part A and the Supplement.   Medicare part A pays your entire hospital bill.. you are not responsible to pay anything other than your deductible...   If you are re-hospitalized within 60 days, you are not responsible for another deductible.. (or rather your supplemental isn't)  

Part B covers outpatient services by 80% and the balance of 20% is picked up by the supplement. 

She has been just fine with her supplement


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

flowerchild said:


> My hubs gets Medicare part D. It does help some since he'd disabled. But every month he play the roulette game thru the Pharmacies to find the cheaper drug costs and who got the meds he needs.
> I pay before tax and % of my premium, my employer pays the better half. Medical, Dental, and eyecare are paid all separately. About $350 a month. This cost I cannot claim for any reimbursement on taxes. Flat out of my pocket and increased 50% this year. The rest is costs for co-pays and deductibles.
> I don't believe we got a raise this year at all either. At 2%, that's just mo money for uncle sam....anyway. doesn't even begin to make a difference. Hubs got a whopping $10 raise this year, whoa, was I impressed!!!! That'll just about pay for a gal. of milk and bottle of soda.



Have you ever had a year where health premiums did NOT go up?  Even before Obama care..  My out of pocket and deductables and copays stayed the same for 2015. BUT the premiums increased slightly by about $350 dollars a year. That's not a whole lot.. and I'm not complaining..


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## ClassicRockr (Jan 23, 2015)

What we can be THANKFUL for is.......my wife's salary is descent! Not really what she'd like to get, but more than some folks her age get who are still working. 

Currently we are paying $254 a month for my medical insurance......which is, Medicare, Florida Blue and Humana Rx. Also have the VA, if needed, but not as reliable for me as the other three.

Depending on a person's health, medical and Rx insurance can be pretty high. Thank God our health isn't in that bad of shape.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

ClassicRockr said:


> What we can be THANKFUL for is.......my wife's salary is descent! Not really what she'd like to get, but more than some folks her age get who are still working.
> 
> Currently we are paying $254 a month for my medical insurance......which is, Medicare, Florida Blue and Humana Rx. Also have the VA, if needed, but not as reliable for me as the other three.
> 
> Depending on a person's health, medical and Rx insurance can be pretty high. Thank God our health isn't in that bad of shape.



So that $254 a month covers your part B premium, your supplemental AND your Drugs..   That's not bad...


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## Ken N Tx (Jan 23, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Have you ever had a year where health premiums did NOT go up?  Even before Obama care..  My out of pocket and deductables and copays stayed the same for 2015. BUT the premiums increased slightly by about $350 dollars a year. That's not a whole lot.. and I'm not complaining..



When you are a senior on a fixed income it does mean a lot!! OBC does not affect us..Supplements vary a whole lot and the old saying "you get what you pay for" applies..


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

Ken N Tx said:


> When you are a senior on a fixed income it does mean a lot!! OBC does not affect us..Supplements vary a whole lot and the old saying "you get what you pay for" applies..




Let me put this another way..... ALL supplements cover your Medicare Part A deductible for inpatient hospitalization.... that's standard.

Part B Medicare pays 80% of outpatient services..  So it is hoped your supplemental will pick up the 20% not paid by Part B..    

I suppose you can find a substandard plan that won't cover much of your part B..  BUT my SIL has never had to pay anything for her doctor visits or other outpatient services like blood work or Xrays..   So I don't think her plan is all that bad.   That's all I expect from it. 

I cannot speak for Part D as I have not looked into a plan.  But CR has... he seems pretty satisfied.


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## Jackie22 (Jan 23, 2015)

I have medicare part A, B and D and a Supplement policy, the Supplement picks up any deductibles.  I have had all of these since I have been on Medicare, the premiums go up about 2% every year.  I am happy with all of them.

My daughter has an ACA policy that she is able to afford and happy to get.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

I also want to add that some of the increases that people see with their group insurance premiums and out of pocket have NOTHING to do with Obamacare... It's the company pulling a fast one and BLAMING Obamacare..   It happens all the time.  How convenient of a scape goat for them to pad their bottom line at the expense of their employees..  Not surprising though.. Corporations will always try to keep more of their money and shift the cost on to employees and consumers.


http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/29/news/economy/employers-obamacare-benefits/index.html

http://www.examiner.com/article/blame-for-obamacare-price-gouging-misguided


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## flowerchild (Jan 23, 2015)

I concur with that one!!! Yup. Insurance companies are the biggest scammers around. Our Pres. gave them permission, so to speak. Obama opened that can of worms.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

flowerchild said:


> I concur with that one!!! Yup. Insurance companies are the biggest scammers around. Our Pres. gave them permission, so to speak. Obama opened that can of worms.



I don't believe that to be true at all...   They are gouging because that's what they have always done.. Yet mention "Regulations" and see what happens..   Corporations are looking for any excuse to save money and really don't care how they do it or at whose expense.

I think if anything Insurance companies are not able to do as MUCH gouging as before.  No more denials or higher premiums for pre-existing conditions.  No more charging women more then men... Mandated to spend at least 90% of their premium money on ACTUAL care.. not CEO bonuses.   I think that Corporations are doing most of the scapegoating against obamacare..


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## oakapple (Jan 23, 2015)

I can't really contribute much to this thread, as being in England , everything medical is covered by the NHS[National Health Service] which has been in place since 1947. Money is paid in to NI [National Insurance] along with tax, directly from a persons pay. However, those not working [ retired, on benefits for various reasons] still can use all the services of the NHS.So retired people like ourselves, get ALL medical services free of charge, including prescriptions for medication , sight tests and hearing tests, operations and all hospital stays and visits.
The huge amount of immigration here has put the NHS under great pressure, so things are not as good as they once were, but still, all healthcare both from the doctor locally and the hospitals are free when you need them.The Obama Care seems very good for the population of the US in general, it must be awful to think you can't afford to have care when you need it.So, what are the main objections?


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## Don M. (Jan 23, 2015)

Personally, I Like the ACA (Obamacare)....not because of any provisions in that legislation...but, rather I think it will be the impetus that Finally brings this nation to the same conclusion that most of the rest of the civilized world knows.  That being, the passage of a SP-UHC plan for our people.  Our "For Profit" system is Raping this nation, and it is quickly becoming unsustainable.  We already pay twice as much for Health Care, as most other nations, and the last ranking of the WHO (World Health Organization) places the U.S. at about number 34, in terms of quality of care, and value received.  If you look up the top 10 highest paid careers in the U.S., 7 out of 10 are in the Health Care field...doctors, dentists, anethesiologists, etc.  Our Medical Profession has been replaced by the Health Care Industry...and the primary objective of Any Industry is to Make Money.  Over 17% of our nations Entire GDP is spent on Health Care, as opposed to 7 or 8% in most other nations.  The Health and Human Services budget is the single largest item in the Federal budget...far outstripping things like Defense.  

Health Care, in most other nations, is based upon Prevention...here it is based upon Treatment.  Treatment is far more profitable than Prevention, so our Health Care Industry continues to resist any movement towards a Universal System...or "Socialized Medicine", as they would prefer to call it.  

I'll go out on a limb here, and predict that somewhere around 2020, our present system is going to collapse inwards on itself, due to rising costs.  About that time frame, health care costs will become so ridiculous in this nation that the bulk of our people will be in dire straits trying to afford decent care, and the government will be going deeply in debt trying to support this bloated system.  Perhaps THEN, our people will wake up, and tell these corrupt politicians that we need to look at the rest of the world, and demand here what is working quite well for Europe, etc.  The quality of their care/life, etc., exceeds that in this nation, at half the costs.  

That, then, is why I like Obamacare.  It does NOTHING to address the root causes of these runaway costs, and just shifts the burden around so as to continue to pad the pockets of our Medical system, the Insurance Companies, and the Drug manufacturers, etc.  After all, it was written mostly by the Health Care Industry Lobbyists, and most of those in Congress never read more than a few pages of the bill, and had no idea of what was in it...remember Nancy Pelosi's statement..."We need to Pass this Bill, so we can find out what is in it?"  Eventually, we will reach a breaking point, where our people realize just how much we are being Scammed, and Hopefully Then, we will see some real progress towards a sensible system.


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## oakapple (Jan 23, 2015)

So, Don, you are not objecting to Obama Care, because you hope it will bring about changes    [  simply because it ISN'T very good and is unsustainable?] It would be better to have a system that helps 'everybody' wouldn't it?


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## flowerchild (Jan 23, 2015)

Don M. said:


> Personally,
> Health Care, in most other nations, is based upon Prevention...here it is based upon Treatment.  Treatment is far more profitable than Prevention, so our Health Care Industry continues to resist any movement towards a Universal System...or "Socialized Medicine", as they would prefer to call it.
> 
> I'll go out on a limb here, and predict that somewhere around 2020, our present system is going to collapse inwards on itself, due to rising costs.  About that time frame, health care costs will become so ridiculous in this nation that the bulk of our people will be in dire straits trying to afford decent care, and the government will be going deeply in debt trying to support this bloated system.  Perhaps THEN, our people will wake up, and tell these corrupt politicians that we need to look at the rest of the world, and demand here what is working quite well for Europe, etc.  The quality of their care/life, etc., exceeds that in this nation, at half the costs.
> ...


Very well said and I think, good prediction. So what happens when people finally realize what's in it, what's it's doing to our economy, healthcare, and incomes?
We just can't yank it off the law books now.
As for healthcare being the top of industry and jobs, why yes it is at the moment. They do not compensate small business very much, so there aren't any small trade school jobs going around in this country. Another story for another day tho.


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## Jackie22 (Jan 23, 2015)

I think I remember reading that there is a clause in the ACA that limits Insurance companies profits.

Also here is a list of preventable health care the ACA covers...

[h=2]Free preventive services[/h][h=2]All Marketplace plans and many other plans must cover the following list of preventive services without charging you a copayment or coinsurance. This is true even if you haven’t met your yearly deductible.[/h]This applies only when these services are delivered by a network provider.


Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm one-time screening for men of specified ages who have ever smoked
Alcohol Misuse screening and counseling
Aspirin use to prevent cardiovascular disease for men and women of certain ages
Blood Pressure screening for all adults
Cholesterol screening for adults of certain ages or at higher risk
Colorectal Cancer screening for adults over 50
Depression screening for adults
Diabetes (Type 2) screening for adults with high blood pressure
Diet counseling for adults at higher risk for chronic disease
HIV screening for everyone ages 15 to 65, and other ages at increased risk
Immunization vaccines for adults--doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary:

Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Herpes Zoster
Human Papillomavirus
Influenza (Flu Shot)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella
Meningococcal
Pneumococcal
Tetanus, Diphtheria, Pertussis
Varicella

Obesity screening and counseling for all adults

Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) prevention counseling for adults at higher risk
Syphilis screening for all adults at higher risk
Tobacco Use screening for all adults and cessation interventions for tobacco users
[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]https://www.healthcare.gov/preventive-care-benefits/[/FONT]


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

DON.... I think this is what most Progressives had and have  against the ACA..  It should have been Single Payor...  BUT... Obama took that off the table early on in order to show the spirit of compromise to the GOP...   Lot of good that did him.   AND it created a lot of distrust in him from his Base.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> I think I remember reading that there is a clause in the ACA that limits Insurance companies profits.
> 
> Also here is a list of preventable health care the ACA covers...
> 
> ...




I just got my Shingles vaccine free of charge..  Normally it would have cost me over $200


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## Mrs. Robinson (Jan 23, 2015)

I WISH the Medicare supplement was only $50.00 a month! Hubby`s just went up from $144.00 a month to $150.00.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

http://www.medicarerights.org/pdf/2012-aca-fact-sheet.pdf


Here's a good comparison of Medicare before and after the ACA..  For those who believe that they are not benefitting from the ACA. Yes.. you are.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 23, 2015)

Mrs. Robinson said:


> I WISH the Medicare supplement was only $50.00 a month! Hubby`s just went up from $144.00 a month to $150.00.



I think she has Blue Cross Select...  I double checked with her... I was wrong. She pays $350 every QUARTER not every six months.. so that sounds about comparable.

I believe the Select.. is the less expensive of the Blue Cross plans too.


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## Don M. (Jan 23, 2015)

oakapple said:


> So, Don, you are not objecting to Obama Care, because you hope it will bring about changes    [  simply because it ISN'T very good and is unsustainable?] It would be better to have a system that helps 'everybody' wouldn't it?



It's a given that NOTHING of consequence ever happens in Washington, UNTIL it becomes a Crisis.  Obamacare, IMO, is going to hasten the day when our current Health Care System becomes unsustainable.  In that regard, Obamacare is going to prove to be of value.


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## darroll (Jan 23, 2015)

I hope Obama care does not turn out like the post office.

I now pay $600.00 per month out of pocket for my prescriptions?


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## WhatInThe (Jan 23, 2015)

There is a place for government funded/controlled health care. But it is "a" place. It is not "the" only answer. There is still 'a' place for pay for service. The ACA has many good things including better fraud controls, pre existing and no cap mandates. But these things could've been legislated in when ever without a 1000 page bill. Just as many complain that not everyone was buying what was optional insurance as their chosen optional method of payment to cover medical care the tax payer has the right to complain about paying for all the services they'll never use. Health care reform should be focused on setting up a low cost government option, as with any set of choices there will be differences. I would expect a government option not to cover Cadillac choices. It should a choice or option where without there would've been none for someone.


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## Don M. (Jan 23, 2015)

darroll said:


> I hope Obama care does not turn out like the post office.
> 
> I now pay $600.00 per month out of pocket for my prescriptions?



Do you have insurance?  Are you on Medicare Part D, and still paying that much for drugs? 

Here's a tip....If you do an Internet search on "drug discounts", you can find several sites which offer a free discount card/program.  I have a neighbor who isn't old enough for Medicare, and he was spending a bunch on drugs after he had a minor stroke.  We did some searching on the Net, and got him a couple of these free cards.  He took one of them...from "Drugs.com"...to Walmart, and started getting almost 40% off his meds.  Check it out...it's free.


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## darroll (Jan 23, 2015)

Don M. said:


> Do you have insurance?  Are you on Medicare Part D, and still paying that much for drugs?


Yea, I have part D medicare. Don't know why it's so expensive. I pity the people that can't afford that kind of expense.


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## SeaBreeze (Jan 23, 2015)

I have never been without health insurance, I obtained it through my employer during my entire adult life working full time for free or low cost to me. When I retired, I paid the COBRA payments until that ran out, and then I paid for my health insurance completely out of pocket from my savings.

The costs kept rising every year in outrageous amounts, and I felt I was being drained of my hard earned savings for no valid reason. I don't have medical issues, and rarely even go to see a doctor. I no longer even go for the 'preventative' x-rays and tests yearly. But I do want coverage in case I do get seriously ill, or am in a car accident or something like that.

I am for the Affordable Care Act, and the only thing IMO, that would be better at this point is a Universal or Single Payer Insurance.


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## Josiah (Jan 23, 2015)

Flowerchild you grouse about Obamacare. 13 million previously uninsured Americans now have health insurance because of the ACA. What alternative would you purpose that would allow these 13 million people to receive adequate medical care? And please don't mention Emergency Rooms because from a national standpoint that is the least cost effective way of providing health care.
If on the other hand you propose a Medicare for all single payer system, I'm sure you'll secure QS's agreement and mine.


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## Butterfly (Jan 23, 2015)

I have Medicare and am also in a large HMO affiliated with our largest hospital and its physician groups.  I also have good drug coverage (well, as good as it gets nowdays).  I only pay the $104 Medicare premium. Most of the doctors in town take my senior care plan.  I've had wonderful care, reasonable co-pays, the best docs and no hassles.  I had both hips replaced in late 2013 and paid very little out of pocket.  I'm VERY happy with my medicare senior care plan.  I couldn't have afforded to have my hips fixed on my regular 80/20 insurance before I turned 65.


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## Don M. (Jan 23, 2015)

darroll said:


> Yea, I have part D medicare. Don't know why it's so expensive. I pity the people that can't afford that kind of expense.



If you are stuck with such high drug costs, you will quickly reach the "donut hole".  Have you asked your doctor if there is a less expensive Generic Alternative"?  For that kind of money, it would almost pay you to take a trip to Mexico or Canada, and hop across the border and get a good supply for a fraction of what you are paying here.


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## flowerchild (Jan 24, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Have you ever had a year where health premiums did NOT go up?  Even before Obama care..  My out of pocket and deductables and copays stayed the same for 2015. BUT the premiums increased slightly by about $350 dollars a year. That's not a whole lot.. and I'm not complaining..



Health care costs have gone up over the year but only slightly and its been gradual up until Obamacare kicked in. That's when it doubled; A drastic huge jump.


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## QuickSilver (Jan 24, 2015)

flowerchild said:


> Health care costs have gone up over the year but only slightly and its been gradual up until Obamacare kicked in. That's when it doubled; A drastic huge jump.



As I said...  Companies are using ObamaCare as an excuse.  If it was because of Obamacare everyones group insurance would have had double digit increases... Mine only went up slightly... I think your Company is ripping you off.


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## flowerchild (Jan 24, 2015)

Josiah09 said:


> Flowerchild you grouse about Obamacare. 13 million previously uninsured Americans now have health insurance because of the ACA. What alternative would you purpose that would allow these 13 million people to receive adequate medical care? And please don't mention Emergency Rooms because from a national standpoint that is the least cost effective way of providing health care.
> If on the other hand you propose a Medicare for all single payer system, I'm sure you'll secure QS's agreement and mine.



I work for a hospital. Hospitals uninsured, for years, had been covered by our government in Medicare/Medicaid funds compensation. That all stopped some years back, the gov. decided not to compensate hospitals for the non-insured. Hospitals lost a lot, there were lots of job losses, premiums became more costly for the existing personal, and some hospitals closed down due to the losses. Hospitals began to scramble to finds ways to compensate for that loss. They had to increase employee paid insurance fees and costs for healthcare went up all over. We had seen consolidation of hospitals into bigger organizations at that time. The bigger the org. the more compensation money's they can share within the org to keep medical care going in the grids of people they support.
Docs too don't work without pay either. Many docs shut doors too to the uninsured or take reduced payments from Medicare/Medicaid patients. They too continually take a loss.

The only way the gov. has funds to pay for the uninsured is to get the money from somewhere right? Universal healthcare has been sitting on the bench in gov. for some time before Obama took the reigns because it was not fully understood how to implement it and not raise taxes and insurances for the US people.. Obamas universal healthcare has increase the Medicare statues to accommodate more people. Someone has to pay for that. Still it's not coming from the strapped gov. funds. His way is to fund this whole thing on the backs of the working class, increased taxes, increased insurance and healthcare costs, this would be the younger people, the middle class and the retired. The people who have the least funds to help pay. Mine you across the board wages have not increased more than 2%/ year during all this time. Minimum wages haven't increased for how many years now?

There are too many loopholes in Obama care. It allows insurance companies to increase costs and make limitations. Obama care went into effect before it was carefully read. Pulaski even said so. Implementing something like this before ironing out it's problems is just bad politics, IMO. The only ones benefiting from this are the uninsured and the gov. Neither has to pay.

I'm not sure how this Press Ganey compensation came about for hospitals. Hospitals can only get paid for treating Medicaid/ Medicare patients (gov. compensation) pertaining to the % scores they get that are dependent of patient surveys. This to me is like false advertising that a hospital has superior services above all others. Sort of like hitting the like button, the more people that hit like button the more funding they get. And if the likes fall below the national average in good care they don't get paid and have to shut the doors. It's almost like a roulette game just like our retirement funds over in Wall street. It's all a gamble.

ObamaCare does not address the charges widely different from hospital to hospital, doc. to doc.and state to state either. What Obamacare is doing tho is costing more in (premium fees) for regional and rural areas that have less participants. Less like buttons, costs more to the individuals who live in that region. Obama care is not cost containment in any way or form. Some end up paying extremely high premiums, copays, and deductibles, while others are reasonable. The hospitals and docs loses are greater in those areas as well.

This becomes an unfair system depending on where you live and what wage status you are. To force this upon people without asking was sneaky at best and just plain wrong. Shall I go into insuring the non citizens and who pays for that?


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## Don M. (Jan 24, 2015)

Our present Health Care System is locked in a race between Profits and Patient Care.  So far, Profits are winning, but the cost is becoming ridiculous.  It will take another 3 to 5 years before the full effects of the ACA can be determined, but so far "Affordable" does not seem to be working, for most.  I am sure that we will eventually get to a sensible SP-UHC system in this nation...the only question is, how much Baloney the American public will put up with before we demand a move toward such a proven system.


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## Jackie22 (Jan 26, 2015)

[h=1]Obamacare cost to be 20% less than forecast, budget office says[/h]Source: *LA Times*

President Obama's healthcare law will cost about 20% less over the next decade than originally projected, the Congressional Budget Office reported Monday, in part because lower-than-expected healthcare inflation has led to smaller premiums. 

So far, the number of uninsured Americans has dropped by about 12 million. By the end of 2016, 24 million fewer Americans will lack insurance, the nonpartisan budget office forecast. 

Excluding immigrants in the country illegally, who are not eligible for coverage under the law, only about 8% of Americans under age 65 will lack insurance by the time Obama leaves office, the budget office's latest report on the law estimates. 

Of the Americans who will remain uninsured once enrollment has fully ramped up, the budget office estimates that about 30% will be people in the U.S. without legal authorization. An additional 10% will be people who are too poor to buy insurance on the exchanges, but who live in states that have not expanded Medicaid. The remaining 60% will be people who choose to not buy insurance or enroll in Medicaid.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-obamacare-cost-20150126-story.html


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