# Biker Gang Shootout Texas, 9 Dead



## WhatInThe (May 17, 2015)

Life imitates art. Sons of Anarchy style shootout in Texas between rival motorcycle gangs leaves 9 dead. To top it off apparently some bikers holed up in a restaurant called the Twin Peaks restaurant where over 100 weapons were found.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/05/17/biker-gang-shootout-unfolds-in-texas.html

No police or civilians killed.


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## AZ Jim (May 17, 2015)

Well as long as no innocents were hurt.......


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## Butterfly (May 18, 2015)

At least they're shooting at one another . . .  tidies up the gene pool?


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## Ameriscot (May 18, 2015)

Just heard this on BBC radio while reading this. I just watched final episode of Sons a few days ago. Massive body count in that series.


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## Warrigal (May 18, 2015)

Congratulations. You've just passed the previous record for deadly bikie gun battles.

The previous record was 7 dead and 19 wounded at Milperra in Sydney, just 200 yards from the school where I was teaching.



> *Deadliest biker battles in history                              *1
> Sunday, May 17, 2015
> 
> *Milperra Massacre*
> ...



This happened before our gun control measures were strengthened after the Port Arthur massacre.


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## Ralphy1 (May 18, 2015)

Well, Dame, you know how we like to be #1 in everything...


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## QuickSilver (May 18, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Congratulations. You've just passed the previous record for deadly bikie gun battles.





Thank you!... And THAT's American Exceptionalism..


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## Shalimar (May 18, 2015)

You guys!


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## Warrigal (May 18, 2015)

We used to hold the record for a single mass killing (Martin Bryant, Port Arthur, 35 dead) until Anders Behring Breivik (Norway) killed 69 participants of a Worker's Youth League camp.


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## Ralphy1 (May 18, 2015)

Yes, well, we will have to try harder, but hope it would be another biker shootout or a neo-Nazi group that provides us with the record...


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## Warrigal (May 18, 2015)

mg: 192 arrested!!!? That's huge!

You don't have to try any harder on this one.

What the heck went down?


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## Jackie22 (May 18, 2015)

Is this not the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard of?


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## Glinda (May 18, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> At least they're shooting at one another . . .  tidies up the gene pool?



:rofl:


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## Ralphy1 (May 18, 2015)

A member of one gang accused a member of another gang of exactly that...nthego:


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## Don M. (May 18, 2015)

Gang Members shooting other Gang Members....sounds like a Great Idea to me.  If I could be assured that these Biker and Drug gang members would only use their weapons on Each Other, I would gladly donate some guns to the cause.


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## QuickSilver (May 18, 2015)

Problem is.... Gang members are really horrible shots.


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## hollydolly (May 18, 2015)

Read about it this morning on the news...and I have to agree with Butterfly..let them kill each other, but the scary thing about this shoot out was that it happened in a restaurant on a retail park, so it's an absolute miracle no innocent citizen was injured.

I looked at the pictures of these guys expecting to see YOBS  and couldn't believe my eyes when I saw they were mostly middle aged....my God do these men never grow up..


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## QuickSilver (May 18, 2015)

Yeah... some real hard core biker gangs are pretty much all middle age..  Most Biker bars are older people... and most just come to show off their bikes.  Some REAL expensive high end machines I may add...


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## hollydolly (May 18, 2015)

Oh yes we have ''hells angels' here too..almost all middle aged and older, but they do it for the joy of riding  and showing off their bikes which they spend a lot of time and money on making beautiful.  They don't go around shooting or knifing people.. (although we did have a problem with them and violence way back in the 70's)..but not now thank God, they must have all grown up in this country..


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## QuickSilver (May 18, 2015)

They have their moments.


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## Josiah (May 18, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Most Biker bars are older people... and most just come to show off their bikes.



And talk and act macho.


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## QuickSilver (May 18, 2015)

This is a biker bar very close to my other house in NW Illinois... It's called Poopy's.   From the pic you can see this is a higher class clientele.  Most are middle aged and older professionals, who can afford the bikes you see in the lot.  They come to BS.. have a good time and show off their latest acquisitions.  Plus the riding on the rural roads is supposed to be fabulous. Lots of hills and turns.  They come there from Chicago and Iowa and Wisconsin.  Not hoodlums.. and not going to have shootouts.


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## AprilT (May 18, 2015)

Sigh!


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## Cookie (May 18, 2015)

Aren't motorcycle clubs are very different from biker gangs, since the gangs kill each other and participate in illegal drug trade and underworld activities, while biker clubs are just a bunch of older guys finally living their dream of being able to afford the bike they always wanted in their youth.


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## Warrigal (May 18, 2015)

Bandidos were part of this current dust up in Texas. The Milperra massacre involved the Bandidos and Commancheros. (spelling?) 
 They had all originally been part of the one gang and were contesting for rights to the drugs franchise.

 It was Father's Day and it was supposed to be a family BBQ until the rival gang turned up complete with their armorary.
 A teenage girl was caught in the crossfire.


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## QuickSilver (May 18, 2015)

We have a biker gang here in Chicago that sponsor a "Toys for Tots" program every year at Christmas..  for disadvantaged kids.  AND guess who the are!  They are the Hells Angels..


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## AprilT (May 18, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Aren't motorcycle clubs are very different from biker gangs, since the gangs kill each other and participate in illegal drug trade and underworld activities, while biker clubs are just a bunch of older guys finally living their dream of being able to afford the bike they always wanted in their youth.



Unfortunately a lot of people don't make a distinction when envisioning the groups, so, the negative labels carry over as where you have people including biker bars in the mix with biker gangs, not one in the same either.


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## Cookie (May 18, 2015)

Yes, the Hells Angels have started to look quite respectable, they've been around so long they're almost an institution, but don't be too fooled, they are still questionable and have their own motives.


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## Warrigal (May 18, 2015)

Yes, that sort of thing occurs over here too but some bikers clubs are heavily involved in importation of drugs and illegal guns. Some have been declared outlaw gangs and the members are no longer allowed to congregate wearing their colours.


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## Cookie (May 18, 2015)

A quote by a Canadian person:

"The hells angels are a criminal orgizination; don't let the fact that  they do charity events, donate money and help people fool you. These  guys kill people, they are heavily into drug trafficking, they also  prostitue little girls and committ tons of fraud. I would say 99% of hells  angels are criminals, deviants and bad news all around, that's not to  say that you have a few guys in there just riding because thats what  they love do and woulndt commit a crime. I happen to know 2 hells angles  memebers; one of them is the nicest guy you can meet, however if you  cross him he will beat the **** out of you and he's heavily into the  drug scene. The second guy I know is an accountant for them and he's in  hidign right now due to tax fraud."


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## AprilT (May 18, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Yes, the Hells Angels have started to look quite respectable, they've been around so long they're almost an institution, but don't be too fooled, they are still questionable and have their own motives.



This is the sort of confusion, I was referring to, not all biker groups and bars have an affiliation with Hells Angels.  Not even sure where they come into the mix of what QS or I were referencing if this is what you are talking about.  ????

Added note, I haven't any love for the Hells Angels no matter what they do charity wise.


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## Shalimar (May 18, 2015)

I am confused. Time for sleep. Zzzzz. Lol.


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## AprilT (May 18, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I am confused. Time for sleep. Zzzzz. Lol.




Tsk, tsk, you are supposed to be able to sort us all out.  LOL.  I've got to get going myself.  I have an appt with a macho guy, I think he might ride a motorbike too occasionally.


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## Cookie (May 18, 2015)

April, QS was mentioning that Hells Angels did charity work, so I was  agreeing that is the case, however, does not mean they aren't criminals.  I would still consider Hell's Angels a criminal GANG.

Are you still confused? To me it seems obvious. Not all biker clubs are gangs.  There are motorcycle CLUBS, whose members are motorcycle enthusiasts, they buy a motorcycle and ride around and go to bars, etc. where they meet others of like mind.  Then there are the bike GANGS which participate in criminal activities.  Two totally different animals, in my mind. People could easily confuse them if they dress in a similar fashion.

Shali, sweet dreams, and you'll feel better once you are rested! :sleeping:


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## AZ Jim (May 18, 2015)

Cookie, good motorcycle club members don't pack guns or knives.  These hoodlums had both in abundance.


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## Cookie (May 18, 2015)

Jim, are you sure you have actually read what I have written, you seem to have misunderstood. There's nothing to disagree with.  We are both saying the same thing. I never said good motorcycle club members pack guns and knives, did I? I'm not even making any specific point other than what we have all read in the news and know to be true.

To reiterate: 

1.  There are *two types of groups:  motorcycle gangs *and *motorcycle enthusiast type clubs*.  
2.  The enthusiasts don't kill, they are more like hobbyists. 
3.  Criminal motorcycle gangs kill and carry weapons
4.  The current shoot-out was obviously a GANG shootout, and I agree, hobbyists don't usually carry weapons and kill. 
5.  Gangs like Hells Angels have infiltrated into society and do some good works, but they still carry out criminal activities.

/'nuf said?


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## WhatInThe (May 18, 2015)

Some news from the scene.

-170 arrested, many with participating in a criminal enterprise.

-Crime scene still being processed almost 24 hours later.

-All kinds of weapons used including brass knuckles, guns, knives, chains

-Blood everywhere including trails of blood from those trying to escape.

-The restaurant franchise owner wouldn't shut down or not allow the bikers to "meet" as requested by police who knew in advance something was going to happen. 

-The Twin Peaks chain pulled the restaurant owner's franchise rights.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-170-arrested-biker-gang-gunfight-waco-texas/story?id=31117791

I guess wearing the uniform of the gang means one is an active member in the gang and must take responsibility for gang activity wether criminal vs legit or knowingly or unknowingly. But I would find hard to believe members didn't know of at least one crime committed by the gang even if speeding or a drug sale. 

Also note the picture of many gang members waiting to be processed sitting and texting on cell phone?


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## AprilT (May 18, 2015)

Cookie said:


> April, QS was mentioning that Hells Angels did charity work, so I was  agreeing that is the case, however, does not mean they aren't criminals.  I would still consider Hell's Angels a criminal GANG.
> 
> Are you still confused? To me it seems obvious. Not all biker clubs are gangs.  There are motorcycle CLUBS, whose members are motorcycle enthusiasts, they buy a motorcycle and ride around and go to bars, etc. where they meet others of like mind.  Then there are the bike GANGS which participate in criminal activities.  Two totally different animals, in my mind. People could easily confuse them if they dress in a similar fashion.
> 
> Shali, sweet dreams, and you'll feel better once you are rested! :sleeping:



Cookie,  I missed seeing where QS made mention of the Hell's Angels, which post was that in this thread?  I'll try to read through again, but, I have to admit, I must have skipped over it, if so, my apologies to you and a wet noodle to me.


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## AZ Jim (May 18, 2015)

Cookie said:


> Jim, are you sure you have actually read what I have written, you seem to have misunderstood. There's nothing to disagree with.  We are both saying the same thing. I never said good motorcycle club members pack guns and knives, did I? I'm not even making any specific point other than what we have all read in the news and know to be true.
> 
> To reiterate:
> 
> ...



My bad Cookie....'cuse me.  As to "outlaw" motorcycle gangs, cancel the exterminator, let the rats kill the rats.


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## Cookie (May 18, 2015)

No matter Jim and April, LOL, bad bikers will kill each other off.  Now I must be off on my new Harley, Varrrroooooommm, Varrrrooooommmm!


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## SeaBreeze (May 18, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Well as long as no innocents were hurt.......





Butterfly said:


> At least they're shooting at one another . . .  tidies up the gene pool?





Don M. said:


> Gang Members shooting other Gang Members....sounds like a Great Idea to me.  If I could be assured that these Biker and Drug gang members would only use their weapons on Each Other, I would gladly donate some guns to the cause.



I agree, if they just target each other, it'll help clean up the streets and remove some gang members from the mix.


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## Shalimar (May 18, 2015)

Cookie, stop that hog! Wait for me! Lol.:love_heart:


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## Warrigal (May 18, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> I agree, if they just target each other, it'll help clean up the streets and remove some gang members from the mix.



And nobody sees any problem with this?

News this morning is that a member of the Bandidos who is holidaying in Thailand has had his Australian residency visa cancelled on "character grounds". He is now stranded and will have to return to the UK whence he came.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-...d-overseas-as-government-cancels-visa/6479656

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tranded-Thailand-government-cancels-visa.html

I would prefer action be taken against trouble makers rather than just allow them to slaughter each other in the streets.


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## AprilT (May 18, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> *And nobody sees any problem with this?*
> 
> News this morning is that a member of the Bandidos who is holidaying in Thailand has had his Australian residency visa cancelled on "character grounds". He is now stranded and will have to return to the UK whence he came.
> 
> ...



Honestly, yes, it reminded me of something I've heard referenced to other groups of people, but, I'm getting maxed out at this point and yes, shame on me, I accept the call out.


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## Cookie (May 18, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Cookie, stop that hog! Wait for me! Lol.:love_heart:



  Got your helmet, Shali, Lets go find the leader of the pack. vrooom  vroooom....   LOL


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## Shalimar (May 18, 2015)

Cookie, Leather Ladies Looking For Trouble, don't forget we are meeting up with April and Annie!


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## Cookie (May 18, 2015)

Shali, LLLT to rumble - but first, my beauty sleep LOL.


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## AprilT (May 18, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Cookie, Leather Ladies Looking For Trouble, don't forget we are meeting up with April and Annie!




And this is how it always happens that I get into trouble, ole innocent sweet as pie me, :bowknot:minding my own business tending to my knitting blankest for babies, and then the wild things, (women,) come drag me out of the home on to the open road to wreck havoc.  Alright then, but, I'm wearing stiletto heeled boots and bringing my whip.  Oh wait, I'm with Cookie, a nap first, like a 12 hour one maybe.


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## Shalimar (May 18, 2015)

Ok, ok, nap before mayhem, then let's ride, ladies!


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## Cookie (May 18, 2015)

Oops, sorry guys, I lied.  I was watching Victoria Day fireworks display in the park across the street. Very nice. Anyway, where were we?
Oh yes, ready to rumble in the morning. fftobed:


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## Warrigal (May 18, 2015)

I'm confused. Is this thread still Current News or is it now a Hot topic?
It does seem to have gone off road.


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## AprilT (May 18, 2015)

Considering the number of times some of us have said we're confused, this thread would probably fit better in the health section, maybe even a sub category mental health.


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## Shalimar (May 18, 2015)

April, can an occasionally confused therapist help?? Lol.


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## AprilT (May 18, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> April, can an occasionally confused therapist help?? Lol.



I don't know you abandoned us when we first sought your services in the matter earlier.  Now we've gone completely off the deep end and here you are.  fff:  

But, I think we better get this thing back on track before we get reported and have to sit in a corner and be quiet the rest of this shift.


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## Warrigal (May 18, 2015)

For those who may still be paying attention, there is a lot more background in this article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/us/waco-texas-biker-gang-shooting.html?_r=0


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## WhatInThe (May 19, 2015)

Police may have shot four of the biker gang members. They were already surveilling the restaurant and responded with in 30-45 seconds.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/05/18/cops-likely-killed-4-waco-bikers.html

Might explain threats against the police there.


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## Ameriscot (May 19, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Cookie, Leather Ladies Looking For Trouble, don't forget we are meeting up with April and Annie!



:what1: I've joined a gang?  Or are we going to be the members old ladies!?


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## Ralphy1 (May 19, 2015)

Senior Biker Chicks excite me!


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## Shalimar (May 19, 2015)

Annie, we formed a gang some time ago, have you forgotten ? April is our whip-wielding boss. She says she is bringing it with her. Lol. Ralphy, behave my little gorilla, or you will not be spanked!! Lol.


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## Ameriscot (May 19, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Annie, we formed a gang some time ago, have you forgotten ? April is our whip-wielding boss. She says she is bringing it with her. Lol. Ralphy, behave my little gorilla, or you will not be spanked!! Lol.



Oh right.  Bad memory, ya know?    I do fancy some leather trousers.


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## QuickSilver (May 19, 2015)

I'm confused as to why people are confused..


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## Shalimar (May 19, 2015)

I love leather, Annie. I have an awesome black leather jumpsuit,


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## Ameriscot (May 19, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I love leather, Annie. I have an awesome black leather jumpsuit,



I thought you might.


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## Cookie (May 19, 2015)

Does your black leather jumpsuit have studs, Shali ?


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## Shalimar (May 19, 2015)

Cookie, only around the button holes. Lol.


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## QuickSilver (May 19, 2015)

Will you just listen to yourselves??   lol!!!   You are all OLD..... remember..... O L D


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## Cookie (May 19, 2015)

Ve're only as old as ve look, dahlink, and ve look Mahvelous!


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## QuickSilver (May 19, 2015)




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## Cookie (May 19, 2015)

:rofl1::rofl1::rofl1:


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## Shalimar (May 19, 2015)

Old is a mindset. Besides, we look amazing!! Cookie, where is our beer, eh?  Canucks gotta have beer.


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## Cookie (May 19, 2015)

Sorry, Shali, beeirs all out. Will go to beer store for some 24s in a bit, eh?


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## Shalimar (May 19, 2015)

Ok, Cookie, ten four.


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## Cookie (May 19, 2015)

:givemebeer::cheers1:


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## AprilT (May 19, 2015)

Who you calling old lady?  Hmph! 

This one is from 5-1/2 years ago.  As soon as I dig out the gear I'm going to dress up in one of my old outfits and splash pics all over this place.  It might take me another 5+ years to find it all, so um I won't say BRB.

View attachment 18099

PS, not a part of my real wardrobe, it was a halloween costume.


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## QuickSilver (May 19, 2015)

Holy mackerel....  Handcuffs too?


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## Cookie (May 19, 2015)

Now I am dazed and confused, LOL


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## AprilT (May 19, 2015)

OK, I'll get this back on track.  How about those motorcycle gangs?  They're talking retaliation, seriously, this whole thing is just sickening.  Babies without enough to eat and this is what they want to focus their old sorry souls on.  I'm almost having second thoughts about the whole let them wipe each other out and be done with it.  Problem is there will be too many innocents taken out in the crossfire.  I'm really not sure what the solution is, these people are often able to operate with the help of certain fractions of people who are supposed to prevent this sort of thing.  If they really wanted to end it, likely they could or at the very least put a major dent in it.  Stop their SS payments for one, j/k on this last part.


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## Shalimar (May 19, 2015)

Hi, April. I think as long as these one percenters enjoy a romantic rep.among certain intellectually suspect members of society, this type of crap will continue.


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## WhatInThe (May 19, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Hi, April. I think as long as these one percenters enjoy a romantic rep.among certain intellectually suspect members of society, this type of crap will continue.



You mean that one percenter movie and tv show producers that glamorize the benefits of a criminal life like showing gangsters going to clubs in 1000 dollar suits with multiple women on their arm exiting their limo. To me the glamorized gangster life started in the 1980s with the tv show Miami Vice. Movies like Scarface and New Jack City didn't help either but they were tales of power, greed & consequences as well.

Around here individual bikers are accepted. Biker gangs have one of the nastiest reputations around as being more sadistic than the characters on Sons of Anarchy. And there is a romantization because of the bikes, the bikes are the hook.


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## AprilT (May 19, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> You mean that one percenter movie and tv show producers that glamorize the benefits of a criminal life like showing gangsters going to clubs in 1000 dollar suits with multiple women on their arm exiting their limo. To me the glamorized gangster life started in the 1980s with the tv show Miami Vice. Movies like Scarface and New Jack City didn't help either but they were tales of power, greed & consequences as well.
> 
> Around here individual bikers are accepted. Biker gangs have one of the nastiest reputations around as being more sadistic than the characters on Sons of Anarchy. And there is a romantization because of the bikes, the bikes are the hook.



I was so disgusted after seeing Scarface, my, then, boyfriend and I got into a big argument over it.  He was cheesing and talking about how great it was and I was fuming over the glorification of the lifestyle more than the actual criminality of it all and how it would have a negative influence on future generations of people wanting to emulate that life.  New Jack City, I recall seeing it, but, I don't remember as much about it, it didn't have the same impact, other than being disgusted with the lifestyle displayed, but, I know I wasn't happy about that one either, I do know it took me a long time to even ever look at Chris Rock, with any fondness, can't say, I'm still a big fan of his all that much, I still find him slightly annoying though somewhat entertaining at times..  Now, Miami Vice, I was a fan, I don't recall them glorifying the drug life, though.


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## WhatInThe (May 19, 2015)

AprilT said:


> I was so disgusted after seeing Scarface, my, then, boyfriend and I got into a big argument over it.  He was cheesing and talking about how great it was and I was fuming over the glorification of the lifestyle more than the actual criminality of it all and how it would have a negative influence on future generations of people wanting to emulate that life.  New Jack City, I recall seeing it, but, I don't remember as much about it, it didn't have the same impact, other than being disgusted with the lifestyle displayed, but, I know I wasn't happy about that one either, I do know it took me a long time to even ever look at Chris Rock, with any fondness, can't say, I'm still a big fan of his all that much, I still find him slightly annoying though somewhat entertaining at times..  Now, Miami Vice, I was a fan, I don't recall them glorifying the drug life, though.



They don't glamorize the life directly but when all the characters in shows like Miami Vice are dressed to the hilt in expensive clothes, driving around in luxury sports car like Ferraris and doing "business" in expensive night clubs and/or on yachts the impressionable/naive will try to emulate that. I know people who watched it and didn't see cool cops they saw style. Throw in the use of music again it's another thing to associate with "the life".  I liked the show but to me it was exactly that, a tv show.  

In the movies Scarface & New Jack City both good movies (I know) they showed a rise to power and a violent fall so they didn't sell the life as a secure career. But many watching don't care about the story especially since movies are visual wether it's the actors or sets/settings. I think the background stuff has more of an impact than the story because if you pay attention to the story and think about the consequences it is a violent, bloody and dangerous life not in an adrenaline rush sort of way.

Sons of Anarchy sold because of the motorcycles & attire, not the story. Take away the bikes and leather and it was just another gangster rise to and fall from power/grace. But impressionable see the motorcycles and duds, not the violence. They saw "the cool" of the gang riding to a drug deal or hit on motorcycles. Throw in the music they are selling "the life" again. Who wouldn't want to ride a motorcycle for work, listening to music, wearing "cool" clothes, packing and looking at the public staring at you in awe/fear.

Also one last thing I've noticed Hollywood doing over the last decade in particular. They try to rehabilitate or justify violent & corrupt characters by showing them as "family" men or about to have a child which is supposed to make you forget all the murder and crime they committed because it's all about "family". The ends justify the means. Eh...


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## AprilT (May 19, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> They don't glamorize the life directly but when all the characters in shows like Miami Vice are dressed to the hilt in expensive clothes, driving around in luxury sports car like Ferraris and doing "business" in expensive night clubs and/or on yachts the impressionable/naive will try to emulate that. I know people who watched it and didn't see cool cops they saw style. Throw in the use of music again it's another thing to associate with "the life".  I liked the show but to me it was exactly that, a tv show.
> 
> In the movies Scarface & New Jack City both good movies (I know) they showed a rise to power and a violent fall so they didn't sell the life as a secure career. But many watching don't care about the story especially since movies are visual wether it's the actors or sets/settings. I think the background stuff has more of an impact than the story because if you pay attention to the story and think about the consequences it is a violent, bloody and dangerous life not in an adrenaline rush sort of way.
> 
> ...




You might be partially right on the style thing, I did go with my then hubby, (during,Miami Vice period,) shopping and had him buy a pair of white shoes and similar other attire for a trip we were about to take out to california.  What the heck was I thinking.  The horror. To think, I was working at a clothing boutique at the time.  I was much better at dressing women.   What I saw though, was the flash and funny cops doing a great job nabbing the bad guys.


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## WhatInThe (May 20, 2015)

Ex cop involved in incident. Too expensive to prosecute all of the 170 or so suspects.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-charges-county-t-afford-prosecute-them.html

Retired ex San Antonio cop among those arrested.

Also, on the forums and boards supposedly this was a big undercover operation which is why the restaurant was under surveillance with police who responded under a minute. Also many point out the brand new uniforms which show up really well in article pictures. I think the police already admitted to shooting 4 themselves. Criminal gangs are not good but something isn't quite right here.


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## SifuPhil (May 20, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> ... To me the glamorized gangster life started in the 1980s with the tv show Miami Vice. Movies like Scarface and New Jack City didn't help either but they were tales of power, greed & consequences as well.



At least in the old days movies like _White Heat_ had the criminals pay an appropriate sentence ... 

"*Made it, Ma! Top of the world!*" 

Here again we have to be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I've known plenty of bikers that wore their colors, looked like gorillas and made tons of noise driving around, but when you got to know them they were a decent bunch at heart. It's only the 1%'s that cause problems like this.


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