# There are times it's hard to believe.



## squatting dog (Apr 6, 2022)

Sometimes one of my pictures just reaches out and grabs me. I can do little more than stare, lost in memories. Not in a bad way, but lost nonetheless. I am truly amazed it happened to me, and I survived.


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## Timewise 60+ (Apr 7, 2022)

Thanks for your service.   I am from that time in our history.  I had a student deferment, and it was over when I graduated.  I had friends who served and ended up in Viet Nam.  Fortunately, they all too, made it home.  God Bless...


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## oldman (Apr 7, 2022)

Oh boy, I remember those rides. When we went out on recon, we were sometimes transported by a Sikorsky. I always wondered why we never flew higher than we did.

I can’t get over the size of the pack on that soldier in the front of the picture.


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## squatting dog (Apr 8, 2022)

oldman said:


> Oh boy, I remember those rides. When we went out on recon, we were sometimes transported by a Sikorsky. I always wondered why we never flew higher than we did.
> 
> I can’t get over the size of the pack on that soldier in the front of the picture.


We packed like that whenever we were going out for 20-30 days. Most of us still have the "forward lean" to this day.


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## JonSR77 (Apr 8, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Sometimes one of my pictures just reaches out and grabs me. I can do little more than stare, lost in memories. Not in a bad way, but lost nonetheless. I am truly amazed it happened to me, and I survived.
> 
> View attachment 216234



Thank you for your service!!!

Thank you for being willing to risk your life to protect the rest of us!!!


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## JonSR77 (Apr 8, 2022)

oldman said:


> Oh boy, I remember those rides. When we went out on recon, we were sometimes transported by a Sikorsky. I always wondered why we never flew higher than we did.
> 
> I can’t get over the size of the pack on that soldier in the front of the picture.


as I mentioned to squatting dog,


Thank you for your service!!!

Thank you for being willing to risk your life to protect the rest of us!!!


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## jimintoronto (Apr 9, 2022)

I wonder how many on this forum know about the 20,000 to 30,000 Canadians who volunteered to join the US military in the Vietnam war era ? The numbers can only be estimated because their  DD214's had a mythical "US home town " put on them, to disguise the number of "foreign nationals " who were serving . One example of a phony US home town was Messina New York. It was used for all of the Canadians from the eastern Provinces of Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island. And other one was Buffalo New York for the volunteers from Ontario. In Windsor Ontario, just across the river from Detroit Michigan is the North Wall memorial dedicated to the Canadians who served and died in Vietnam. link. north wall memorial windsor ontario photos - Bing images

JImB.


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## Alligatorob (Apr 9, 2022)

Timewise 60+ said:


> Thanks for your service.


Absolutely!


jimintoronto said:


> I wonder how many on this forum know about the 20,000 to 30,000 Canadians who volunteered to join the US military in the Vietnam war era ?


I had no idea, thanks for this.  

Did they have to give up Canadian citizenship?  I think we would if we entered another country's army.


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## jimintoronto (Apr 9, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> I had no idea, thanks for this.
> 
> Did they have to give up Canadian citizenship?  I think we would if we entered another country's army.


No not at all. In fact 2 of my 1966 Toronto high school graduating class went to Buffalo and joined the USMC, both served in Vietnam and came back safely. One guy stayed in the US, got married to a young woman from Kentucky, and joined the Kentucky State Police. He served for 33 years, then retired and now lives in Florence Kentucky. The other guy came back to Canada for a couple of years, then used his acquired US citizenship to get into Yale. Both of them received US citizenship as a result of having served in the US military. A fairly large number of Canadian First Nations men joined the USMC under the provisions of the Jay Treaty of 1794. The Jay treaty is still in effect. It allows Canadian born First Nations people to enter the US and live there with no hinderance whatsoever. Some of the First Nations reserves in Canada have VFW posts on them because so many of their nations served in the US military, in particular the USMC. At least one Canadian First Nations man was a USMC Command Sgt Major in the 1970's. 

About Americans joining another nations military.........During WW1 about 19,000 Americans joined the Canadian Army and served in France. Same  thing in WW2 , with most joining  the RCAF as ground crew or pilots. In the WW 2 era, once the USA joined the war in December of 1941, the Americans serving in the Canadian forces were given the choice to transfer to American units. Some did but many did not. At least one Canadian Army unit in WW2 was commanded by a  lawyer from South Carolina during the campaign in Italy. He was black. He enlisted as a private, and ended the war as a Colonel. JimB.


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## squatting dog (Apr 9, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> I wonder how many on this forum know about the 20,000 to 30,000 Canadians who volunteered to join the US military in the Vietnam war era ? The numbers can only be estimated because their  DD214's had a mythical "US home town " put on them, to disguise the number of "foreign nationals " who were serving . One example of a phony US home town was Messina New York. It was used for all of the Canadians from the eastern Provinces of Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island. And other one was Buffalo New York for the volunteers from Ontario. In Windsor Ontario, just across the river from Detroit Michigan is the North Wall memorial dedicated to the Canadians who served and died in Vietnam. link. north wall memorial windsor ontario photos - Bing images
> 
> JImB.


That's pretty interesting and something I never knew. If there were any Canadians in our outfit, they never said so. We did however work   in our area of operations ( III Corps ), with a mix of Australian troops.


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## oldman (Apr 9, 2022)

You have some really good pictures, even though of a bad place.


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## Sassycakes (Apr 10, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Sometimes one of my pictures just reaches out and grabs me. I can do little more than stare, lost in memories. Not in a bad way, but lost nonetheless. I am truly amazed it happened to me, and I survived.
> 
> View attachment 216234


Thank you and God Bless you for your service to our country.


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## DGM (Apr 12, 2022)

I'll tell you of another group of which I will bet you have not heard:  The thousands of American civilian women who worked in Vietnam.  They seem to be one of the best kept secrets of the war.  Thirty-five of those women were killed in the plane crash of "Operation Babylift".  There were listed as:  Defense Attache Office personnel.  
When my wife and her first husband divorced, she, working for the Army, inquired about an assignment in Europe.  She was informed that there, they hired dependent wives of American military.  But, they asked, how'd you like to go to Vietnam?  She signed up for a one-year tour and extended for six months.  She was the Administrative Assistant to the CG of the Engineer Command in Long Binh.  In April of 72 she was going to extend for another six months when she was advised by someone "in the know" that it was time to go home. 
She knew a number of the gals on that fatal flight.  Most were planning on retiring upon returning to the states.  
About ten years after my wife came home her health turned to total crap.  One thing after another and another.  Had she been military she would be 100% disabled due to Agent Orange which was used heavily where she lived and worked while in country.  Thirty-two civilians/contractors have tried to sue and gotten nowhere.  The only civilians to obtain VA benefits are "Department of the Navy Special Agents".   
Sorry for going on a rant.  I watch my wife in constant pain and it pisses me off.  Civilian doctors have never heard of "Agent Orange".  She needed to see VA doctors.   Again, sorry for ranting.


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## squatting dog (Apr 12, 2022)

DGM said:


> I'll tell you of another group of which I will bet you have not heard:  The thousands of American civilian women who worked in Vietnam.  They seem to be one of the best kept secrets of the war.  Thirty-five of those women were killed in the plane crash of "Operation Babylift".  There were listed as:  Defense Attache Office personnel.
> When my wife and her first husband divorced, she, working for the Army, inquired about an assignment in Europe.  She was informed that there, they hired dependent wives of American military.  But, they asked, how'd you like to go to Vietnam?  She signed up for a one-year tour and extended for six months.  She was the Administrative Assistant to the CG of the Engineer Command in Long Binh.  In April of 72 she was going to extend for another six months when she was advised by someone "in the know" that it was time to go home.
> She knew a number of the gals on that fatal flight.  Most were planning on retiring upon returning to the states.
> About ten years after my wife came home her health turned to total crap.  One thing after another and another.  Had she been military she would be 100% disabled due to Agent Orange which was used heavily where she lived and worked while in country.  Thirty-two civilians/contractors have tried to sue and gotten nowhere.  The only civilians to obtain VA benefits are "Department of the Navy Special Agents".
> Sorry for going on a rant.  I watch my wife in constant pain and it pisses me off.  Civilian doctors have never heard of "Agent Orange".  She needed to see VA doctors.   Again, sorry for ranting.


I'm so sorry your wife has to go through this BS.   I never got near Long Binh, (only knew of the infamous jail there), so I never knew there were civilian women in country. (outside of donut dollies). This country owes folks like your wife big time, but, I'll bet they'll never acknowledge that fact.


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## Em in Ohio (Apr 13, 2022)

jimintoronto said:


> I wonder how many on this forum know about the 20,000 to 30,000 Canadians who volunteered to join the US military in the Vietnam war era ? The numbers can only be estimated because their  DD214's had a mythical "US home town " put on them, to disguise the number of "foreign nationals " who were serving . One example of a phony US home town was Messina New York. It was used for all of the Canadians from the eastern Provinces of Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island. And other one was Buffalo New York for the volunteers from Ontario. In Windsor Ontario, just across the river from Detroit Michigan is the North Wall memorial dedicated to the Canadians who served and died in Vietnam. link. north wall memorial windsor ontario photos - Bing images
> 
> JImB.


I was unaware of this disguise strategy.  Thank you for the enlightenment and the service!


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## Em in Ohio (Apr 13, 2022)

DGM said:


> I'll tell you of another group of which I will bet you have not heard:  The thousands of American civilian women who worked in Vietnam.  They seem to be one of the best kept secrets of the war.  Thirty-five of those women were killed in the plane crash of "Operation Babylift".  There were listed as:  Defense Attache Office personnel.
> When my wife and her first husband divorced, she, working for the Army, inquired about an assignment in Europe.  She was informed that there, they hired dependent wives of American military.  But, they asked, how'd you like to go to Vietnam?  She signed up for a one-year tour and extended for six months.  She was the Administrative Assistant to the CG of the Engineer Command in Long Binh.  In April of 72 she was going to extend for another six months when she was advised by someone "in the know" that it was time to go home.
> She knew a number of the gals on that fatal flight.  Most were planning on retiring upon returning to the states.
> About ten years after my wife came home her health turned to total crap.  One thing after another and another.  Had she been military she would be 100% disabled due to Agent Orange which was used heavily where she lived and worked while in country.  Thirty-two civilians/contractors have tried to sue and gotten nowhere.  The only civilians to obtain VA benefits are "Department of the Navy Special Agents".
> Sorry for going on a rant.  I watch my wife in constant pain and it pisses me off.  Civilian doctors have never heard of "Agent Orange".  She needed to see VA doctors.   Again, sorry for ranting.


This is horrible.  What surprises me the most is that I never heard of such civilian women serving in Viet Nam.  I don't recall them ever mentioned on the news.  If your wife was exposed to Agent Orange, she definitely deserves medical help.  It's one more shame on the VA.


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## DGM (Apr 14, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> This is horrible.  What surprises me the most is that I never heard of such civilian women serving in Viet Nam.  I don't recall them ever mentioned on the news.  If your wife was exposed to Agent Orange, she definitely deserves medical help.  It's one more shame on the VA.


Google "American women killed in Vietnam War".  One of my wife's best friends was ordered to be on the ill-fated Operation Babylift flight.  She hid and missed the flight.  She was stalling for time to adopt two Vietnamese girls.  I recently looked at a documentary "Vietnam:  50 years remembered".  In episode one I caught a glimpse of an American woman.  Of all the videos and shows I've seen about the war that is the only American woman I ever saw.  As I said, "they were a well-kept secret".  We have a friend who, following my wife's experience, signed up and worked as a civilian for the Army in Afghanistan.  I doubt we could find any news or record of her year abroad.


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## Em in Ohio (Apr 14, 2022)

DGM said:


> Google "American women killed in Vietnam War".  One of my wife's best friends was ordered to be on the ill-fated Operation Babylift flight.  She hid and missed the flight.  She was stalling for time to adopt two Vietnamese girls.  I recently looked at a documentary "Vietnam:  50 years remembered".  In episode one I caught a glimpse of an American woman.  Of all the videos and shows I've seen about the war that is the only American woman I ever saw.  As I said, "they were a well-kept secret".  We have a friend who, following my wife's experience, signed up and worked as a civilian for the Army in Afghanistan.  I doubt we could find any news or record of her year abroad.


Thanks - I added the word "civilian" to the search and found this:  
*"More than 50* civilian American women died in Vietnam. Many Vietnam women veterans have never told their friends, colleagues or even loved ones about their tour of duty in Vietnam. The majority of them were only in their early 20s when they returned to a country that did not understand what they had just experienced."

http://www.vietnamwomensmemorial.or...ilian American,what they had just experienced.

Vietnam Women's Memorial - The Vietnam Women's Memorial ...​


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## PamfromTx (Apr 14, 2022)

Thank you for your service!!!


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## DGM (Apr 14, 2022)

Em in Ohio said:


> Thanks - I added the word "civilian" to the search and found this:
> *"More than 50* civilian American women died in Vietnam. Many Vietnam women veterans have never told their friends, colleagues or even loved ones about their tour of duty in Vietnam. The majority of them were only in their early 20s when they returned to a country that did not understand what they had just experienced."
> 
> http://www.vietnamwomensmemorial.org/vwmf.php#:~:text=More than 50 civilian American,what they had just experienced.
> ​


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## oldman (Apr 19, 2022)

I made a lot of new friends while serving in the Marines and especially when we got to Vietnam. We were all friends because we knew we had to depend on one another if we wanted to stay alive. That doesn’t mean there wasn’t a fight or two, but boys will be boys at times and if someone made a wisecrack about another Marines’ mother or girlfriend, yes, a fight could break out. It kind of helped to get rid of some of the built up anxiety and tension.

Stress was always there in your mind. It could be quiet and peaceful one moment and the next moment, all hell would break out. The next thing we knew, F-4’s were flying in for support laying down Napalm. Then, awhile later, peace was restored, but for how long, we never knew. The heartbreak came when we had to load the injured onboard a chopper to be airlifted to a field hospital.


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