# Run-in with a jerk



## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Yesterday, while riding on a public bus on my way back from the supermarket, I had a near violent confrontation with a jerk.
I had my small wheeled hand cart with me and it was filled with groceries. The hand cart was PARTIALLY in the aisle but there was plenty of room for people to move passed. A 20 something black man got on and he wanted to go to the back of the bus. He could easily have edged passed but he demanded that I move the basket to near the exit. I told him, "Just walk passed" he shouted at me and he grabbed my little basket. I held on to my basket. He moved up into my face still shouting. I said "leave me alone, WALK PASSED." He pressed the issue and looked like he was getting ready to be violent.
I stood up and said, as I TOWERED over him, "You want to hit me ? Go ahead. I'll put you in the hospital."

If that passenger had been handicapped or loaded down with packages, I'd have moved my little wheeled basket to the exit area. BUT, not for a jerk.


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## Lee (Sep 17, 2021)

Why is it necessary for you mention that the man was black? Just curious.


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## Pepper (Sep 17, 2021)

Lee said:


> Why is it necessary for you mention that the man was black? Just curious.


Here's why:
"When it comes to comparing Christianity with Islam, one thing is without doubt. We do not see Christians flying jet planes into buildings filled with people."  said he in Diva's thread.

He had a run-in with a jerk when he looked in a mirror.  Yet, his cooking threads are nice.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Lee said:


> Why is it necessary for you mention that the man was black? Just curious.


Probably for the same reason I'd have mentioned if he had numerous facial tattoos.


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## win231 (Sep 17, 2021)

I don't know how old you are, but you didn't handle the situation very wisely.  These days, people are much-more prone to violence.  People have been killed over such petty disputes.  You really want to fight with a 20 year old?  As we age, we need to be more smart than macho.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Here's why:
> "When it comes to comparing Christianity with Islam, one thing is without doubt. We do not see Christians flying jet planes into buildings filled with people."  said he in Diva's thread.
> 
> He had a run-in with a jerk *when he looked in a mirror.*  Yet, his cooking threads are nice.


How sweet of you to say that.


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## Pepper (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> How sweet of you to say that.


I wish I didn't have to, as in many ways you seem like a nice, interesting person.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> I don't know how old you are, but you didn't handle the situation very wisely.  These days, people are much-more prone to violence.  People have been killed over such petty disputes.  You really want to fight with a 20 year old?  As we age, we need to be more smart than macho.


You are probably right. But I have a really, really hard time knuckling under, whenever someone tries to intimidate me.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I wish I didn't have to, as in many ways you seem like a nice, interesting person.


Yet you honestly thought it was necessary to call me a jerk ?


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## jujube (Sep 17, 2021)

"Discretion is the better part of valor".

You seem to have  a bit of a chip on your shoulder.  In today's violent society, you may be in the right but this could lead to your being "dead" right.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

jujube said:


> "Discretion is the better part of valor".
> 
> You seem to have  a bit of a chip on your shoulder.  In today's violent society, you may be in the right but this could lead to your being "dead" right.


Maybe so, but I have always lived by the motto, "It is better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."


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## Knight (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> If that passenger had been handicapped or loaded down with packages, I'd have moved my little wheeled basket to the exit area. BUT, not for a jerk.


Was the exit area open enough so that exiting would not be a problem for other passengers? If so as a matter of courtesy why not out of anticipating what other passengers might need put your cart there in the 1st. place?


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## Buckeye (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yesterday, while riding on a public bus on my way back from the supermarket, I had a near violent confrontation with a jerk.
> I had my small wheeled hand cart with me and it was filled with groceries. The hand cart was PARTIALLY in the aisle but there was plenty of room for people to move passed. A 20 something black man got on and he wanted to go to the back of the bus. He could easily have edged passed but he demanded that I move the basket to near the exit. I told him, "Just walk passed" he shouted at me and he grabbed my little basket. I held on to my basket. He moved up into my face still shouting. I said "leave me alone, WALK PASSED." He pressed the issue and looked like he was getting ready to be violent.
> I stood up and said, as I TOWERED over him, "You want to hit me ? Go ahead. I'll put you in the hospital."
> 
> If that passenger had been handicapped or loaded down with packages, I'd have moved my little wheeled basket to the exit area. BUT, not for a jerk.


I'm with you on this one.  Being old should not make us a target for harassment, and this young man, regardless of his color, was most likely harassing you because he thought you were an easy target.  I'm old as hell, but I will still get in their face if I need to.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Knight said:


> Was the exit area open enough so that exiting would not be a problem for other passengers? If so as a matter of courtesy why not out of anticipating what other passengers might need put your cart there in the 1st. place?


If I had done so, I'd have blocked the exit. In any event, I need to hang on to the cart (it has wheels) so that it does not go running down the aisle.
The man in question wanted to throw his weight around. He met the wrong guy.


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## Pepper (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> The man in question wanted to throw his weight around. He met the wrong guy.


Now, see?  We have this in common.  If anyone jumps ahead of the line in front of me they are in for the surprise of their life.  I also don't take crap, and am confident in the results.  I can fight to the death, and Look! I'm still here.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> I'm with you on this one.  Being old should not make us a target for harassment, and this young man, regardless of his color, was most likely harassing you because he thought you were an easy target.  I'm old as hell, but I will still get in their face if I need to.


Good for you, buddy. You sound like the kind of man I most respect.


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## Knight (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> If I had done so, I'd have blocked the exit. In any event, I need to hang on to the cart (it has wheels) so that it does not go running down the aisle.
> The man in question wanted to throw his weight around. He met the wrong guy.


That doesn't make sense to me.

You say
Quote
"If that passenger had been handicapped or loaded down with packages, I'd have moved my little wheeled basket to the exit area. BUT, not for a jerk."

Now you say
If I had done so, I'd have blocked the exit.

I'm not trying to be difficult just trying to understand why taking a chance of unexpected violence that could easily involve a gun or knife warranted such a confrontation.

Nothing would have happened if you moved the cart, you would still be the same.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Lee said:


> Why is it necessary for you mention that the man was black? Just curious.


Just for general interest, I am very pro-BLM.  If I see a cop, harassing a black person, I will film it and report the cop.


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## Pepper (Sep 17, 2021)

A complicated man.


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## Della (Sep 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> I don't know how old you are, but you didn't handle the situation very wisely.  These days, people are much-more prone to violence.  People have been killed over such petty disputes.  You really want to fight with a 20 year old?  As we age, we need to be more smart than macho.


*I agree with Win*.  (Yes, Hell must have frozen over -- climate change I guess.) 

That young man might have had a knife or punched you in the face and done real damage.

I've learned something from reading this board every day and it's that People Be Crazy!  Someone was tailgating me last week and to show my irritation I slowed waaay down.  Then I remembered all the road rage incidents I've read about here, thought about the gun he  might have had in his glove box, and quit playing games.


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## Tish (Sep 17, 2021)

Yeah, nuh, not touching this one, I respectfully bow out.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Knight said:


> That doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> You say
> Quote
> ...


when I said I'd have moved the cart to the exit area, I meant TEMPORARILY. Just long enough to let the handicapped person to move with ease. Then I'd move right back to my seat.  BUT for a young guy who wants to throw his weight around ? NO WAY !

By the way, in my neighborhood, on public buses,  it is quite common for people to have small wheeled carts filled with groceries etc. Normally, other passengers merely have to turn a tad sideways when trying to get passed. I have had to do so hundreds and hundreds of times, but not once did I ever give the owner of the cart any grief. only a thug would do so.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Della said:


> *That young man might have had a knife or punched you in the face and done real damage.*


Yes , that is always a possibility. BUT, in all honesty, I'd rather die than be pushed around.


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## feywon (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yet you honestly thought it was necessary to call me a jerk ?


Frankly my first thought reading the title was 'Oh, he looked in the mirror and had a moment of clarity.

In answer to Lee you said "Probably for the same reason I'd have mentioned if he had numerous facial tatoos." Since elsewhere in this thread you used forms of the word 'intimidate', i have to conclude you find both Black men and heavily facially tatooed men intimidating before they say a thing to you.  Your guard goes up and you percieve anything they say or do in worst possible light.

Don't suppose it occurred to you that being a young Black man he may have been concerned that if his clothing had caught on or one of feet had bumped your cart that you would have complained about that or accused him of something?  We have only your word that his initial tone was 'demanding', and considering your attitude on some threads and how judgmental you've shown yourself to be i'm inclined to think that was in your ears, due your attitude, not in his initial tone.

If someone is unpleasant to me in public i consider the fact they may be having a horrible day. When and how did you decide the man was a jerk? When he first asked or when he didn't respond as you wished to your command to 'Just walk passed'?


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## win231 (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> You are probably right. But I have a really, really hard time knuckling under, whenever someone tries to intimidate me.


If you had responded with something like:  _"That's a good idea, thanks for letting me know,"_ that would _*not *_be knuckling under; that would be showing wisdom.   And your loved ones would not be in mourning.


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## win231 (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yes , that is always a possibility. BUT, in all honesty, I'd rather die than be pushed around.


You may recall that woman on the freeway who wanted to let another driver know who's boss.
Her 6 year old son paid for her stupidity with his life.


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## feywon (Sep 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> I don't know how old you are, but you didn't handle the situation very wisely.  These days, people are much-more prone to violence.  People have been killed over such petty disputes.  You really want to fight with a 20 year old?  As we age, we need to be more smart than macho.


Thing is,  one doesn't even have to think of it in such proactively defensive terms. I would have moved my cart not out of fear but consideration which i extend to all not just those who look like they need it.  

You can't always tell by looking at someone if turning sideways when a bus is about to move or already moving might   make them have trouble maintaining their balance and they fear looking foolish as well  as maybe stepping on or  falling onto some other passenger.  Meniere's disease is one of those invisible things, and some generally fit and fit  looking people have suffered with it.


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## Gary O' (Sep 17, 2021)

Jerks don't fare well with me, gun, knife, whatever

Best bring a big one

I have no reverse gear in my wheelhouse


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## Murrmurr (Sep 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> If you had responded with something like:  _"That's a good idea, thanks for letting me know,"_ that would _*not *_be knuckling under; that would be showing wisdom.   And your loved ones would not be in mourning.


mmm...I think I disagree, Win, but it depends on how the guy asked. Chef said he *demanded* the cart be moved. Maybe so. If some guy hollered at me to "_Move_ this damn thing!" I wouldn't want to move it. We'd have words, mostly comprised of 4 letters. But if he said, "Excuse me, I can't get through" or even "Yo old dude, this is in my way" I'd apologize and move the damn thing.


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## Manatee (Sep 17, 2021)

This is one reason I hate public transportation.  I dread the time when I might have to give up my car.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yesterday, while riding on a public bus on my way back from the supermarket, I had a near violent confrontation with a jerk.
> I had my small wheeled hand cart with me and it was filled with groceries. The hand cart was PARTIALLY in the aisle but there was plenty of room for people to move passed. A 20 something black man got on and he wanted to go to the back of the bus. He could easily have edged passed but he demanded that I move the basket to near the exit. I told him, "Just walk passed" he shouted at me and he grabbed my little basket. I held on to my basket. He moved up into my face still shouting. I said "leave me alone, WALK PASSED." He pressed the issue and looked like he was getting ready to be violent.
> I stood up and said, as I TOWERED over him, "You want to hit me ? Go ahead. I'll put you in the hospital."
> 
> If that passenger had been handicapped or loaded down with packages, I'd have moved my little wheeled basket to the exit area. BUT, not for a jerk.


And the reason you wouldn't move your hand cart that was "partially" blocking the aisle, to let this person pass ,was ? If a person has to "edge by" your cart, it does sound like an obstruction in the aisle. 
If you got on the bus dragging your cart, and someone refused to move their cart that was "partially" blocking the aisle, you would have what?


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## Judycat (Sep 17, 2021)

Hey. He grabs your cart. It is on.


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## feywon (Sep 17, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> mmm...I think I disagree, Win, but it depends on how the guy asked. Chef said he *demanded* the cart be moved. Maybe so. If some guy hollered at me to "_Move_ this damn thing!" I wouldn't want to move it. We'd have words, mostly comprised of 4 letters. But if he said, "Excuse me, I can't get through" or even "Yo old dude, this is in my way" I'd apologize and move the damn thing.


Key phrase 'Chef said he demanded', but we have only Chef's word on that.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 17, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> And the reason you wouldn't move your hand cart that was "partially" blocking the aisle, to let this person pass ,was ? If a person has to "edge by" your cart, it does sound like an obstruction in the aisle.
> If you got on the bus dragging your cart, and someone refused to move their cart that was "partially" blocking the aisle, you would have what?


Public transport really needs to recognize that they move a lot of seniors, and probably at least 50% of them are gonna have a cart or footed cane or walker. We have some new buses here that have a place for you to park stuff out of the isle.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 17, 2021)

feywon said:


> Key phrase 'Chef said he demanded', but we have only Chef's word on that.


True, and we can take it or leave it. If we take his word, the guy was a jerk.

I don't care what your excuse is, a bad childhood or whatever, if you're a jerk, you can cry me a river, I'm not taking any crap from you. (not _you_, personally)


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## Nathan (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> You are probably right. But I have a really, really hard time knuckling under, whenever someone tries to intimidate me.


_"The testosterone is strong but a man's wisdom is weak"_. Ancient Chinese saying? No, I just made it up.      I get it, I wanted to go 'fist city' with an arrogant jerk at the supermarket a few weeks ago. Problem was, he's like 6'-4" and 60 lb.s heavier(mostly muscle) and probably 30 years younger.   I gave him the evil eye, turned and went about my business...and *lived *another day.


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## feywon (Sep 17, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Public transport really needs to recognize that they move a lot of seniors, and probably at least 50% of them are gonna have a cart or footed cane or walker. We have some new buses here that have a place for you to park stuff out of the isle.


True, if Hawaii can have 'beach busses' that storage sections for surfboards....why not busses designed to accommodate grocery carts?   Maybe with only rows of seats along whole length so wider aises. They could run regular busses at peak commute for work times.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> And the reason you wouldn't move your hand cart that was "partially" blocking the aisle, to let this person pass ,was ? If a person has to "edge by" your cart, it does sound like an obstruction in the aisle.
> If you got on the bus dragging your cart, and someone refused to move their cart that was "partially" blocking the aisle, you would have what?


there are ALWAYS obstructions in the aisle of any public bus in my neighborhood. it is entirely normal here.  people are quite used to it. Only a thug would make an issue of it.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Nathan said:


> _"The testosterone is strong but a man's wisdom is weak"_. Ancient Chinese saying? No, I just made it up.      I get it, I wanted to go 'fist city' with an arrogant jerk at the supermarket a few weeks ago. Problem was, he's like 6'-4" and 60 lb.s heavier(mostly muscle) and probably 30 years younger.   I gave him the evil eye, turned and went about my business...and *lived *another day.


It was quite the opposite with me. I am 6'3" and 195 lbs. When we stood face to face, his eyes were at my neck level.


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## feywon (Sep 17, 2021)

Manatee said:


> This is one reason I hate public transportation.  I dread the time when I might have to give up my car.


Manatee, not sure what size  town you live in but even small towns in many states have senior centers and they often have transport services. Some even have special grocery run days . The cost is usually reasonable compared to gas and upkeep on a vehicle.  

And they might also match up people who have had to stop driving with younger seniors and some mutually beneficial arrangement could be made, with the rider(s) sharing cost of gas.


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## feywon (Sep 17, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> True, and we can take it or leave it. If we take his word, the guy was a jerk.
> 
> I don't care what your excuse is, a bad childhood or whatever, if you're a jerk, you can cry me a river, I'm not taking any crap from you. (not _you_, personally)


So you have *never* in your entire life had a bad day, been exhausted and sounded more gruff or  hostile than you intended?


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

feywon said:


> So you have *never* in your entire life had a bad day, been exhausted and sounded more gruff or  hostile than you intended?


I can't speak for Murrmurr BUT, no-one gives a damn about what I feel or how my day is going. Just because someone is having a bad day, does NOT give them any special right to push me around


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## Murrmurr (Sep 17, 2021)

feywon said:


> So you have *never* in your entire life had a bad day, been exhausted and sounded more gruff or  hostile than you intended?


Honestly, I don't tak my bad days out on others. I'm more inclined to use their positive energy to boost my own.


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## Pepper (Sep 17, 2021)

Frank @Murrmurr is a hippie.


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## win231 (Sep 17, 2021)

Nathan said:


> _"The testosterone is strong but a man's wisdom is weak"_. Ancient Chinese saying? No, I just made it up.      I get it, I wanted to go 'fist city' with an arrogant jerk at the supermarket a few weeks ago. Problem was, he's like 6'-4" and 60 lb.s heavier(mostly muscle) and probably 30 years younger.   I gave him the evil eye, turned and went about my business...and *lived *another day.


That's the _"Wisdom_" I referred to earlier.


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## win231 (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> It was quite the opposite with me. I am 6'3" and 195 lbs. When we stood face to face, his eyes were at my neck level.


It's your age - not your size that makes the biggest difference.


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## Nathan (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yes , that is always a possibility. BUT, in all honesty, I'd rather die than be pushed around.


Let's examine this statement.   O.K., here's the deal: once you're *dead*, all that pride and "saving face" is meaningless. And no one cares.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Let's examine this statement.   O.K., here's the deal: once you're *dead*, all that pride and "saving face" is meaningless. And no one cares.


You are forgetting something VERY important.   If I allowed anyone to push me around, I'd have to live with the fact that I am a victim. I refuse to be a victim. The emotional impact of victimhood is a heavy burden to carry. 
If I could use an analogy ? A woman who is raped, has become a victim of her attacker. She may, or may not have suffered physical trauma BUT the knowledge that she was victimized is a heavy emotional burden to carry. In other words the emotional trauma is often far, far worse than the actual physical trauma.


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## Packerjohn (Sep 17, 2021)

They keep saying "Black Lives Matter" so who am I to "blow against the wind?"


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## Shero (Sep 17, 2021)

If there are two straight sides to every story, they'll always be one lopsided truth. — *Benny Bellamacina*


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## Remy (Sep 17, 2021)

Another one looking for some kind of conflict perhaps. I would not have engaged myself. If this person was able bodied and could move around your cart, they had no reason to confront you IMO.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Remy said:


> Another one looking for some kind of conflict perhaps. I would not have engaged myself. If this person was able bodied and could move around your cart, they had no reason to confront you IMO.


Exactly ! He was trying and failing to intimidate me.


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## mellowyellow (Sep 17, 2021)

You are lucky to have lived this long and nobody has ever pushed you around.


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## Shero (Sep 17, 2021)

We are hearing reports from only one participant in this saga. Old Jewish proverb goes like this: "What you don’t see with your eyes, don’t witness with your mouth.” ~Jewish Proverb
Since we do not know what this young man really said, case closed!!


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## feywon (Sep 17, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Honestly, I don't tak my bad days out on others. I'm more inclined to use their positive energy to boost my own.


Kudos to you then.
 I strive to not do so, but I'm quite sure there must been times when i was stressed out and my voice may have had a harsher tone than i intended, (at least it was more likely to be with people i knew and so i could apologize later, rarely to strangers). Most humans do at some point. And sometimes i may have decided someone was 'a jerk'  because i was too stressed myself to see they were as stressed i was and hadn't meant to be rude or problematic.


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## feywon (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I can't speak for Murrmurr BUT, no-one gives a damn about what I feel or how my day is going. Just because someone is having a bad day, does NOT give them any special right to push me around


Or vice versa!


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## John cycling (Sep 17, 2021)

Shero said:


> Old Jewish proverb goes like this: "What you don’t see with your eyes, don’t witness with your mouth.” ~Jewish Proverb



If only people would apply that proverb to viruses!    What a wonderful world it would be.


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## Warrigal (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> You are forgetting something VERY important.   If I allowed anyone to push me around, I'd have to live with the fact that I am a victim. I refuse to be a victim. The emotional impact of victimhood is a heavy burden to carry.
> If I could use an analogy ? A woman who is raped, has become a victim of her attacker. She may, or may not have suffered physical trauma BUT the knowledge that she was victimized is a heavy emotional burden to carry. In other words the emotional trauma is often far, far worse than the actual physical trauma.


You are not a woman and I suspect that you have never been raped. If I am wrong about the latter than what you have just written makes sense. Otherwise, to compare your spat with a man on a bus over the placement of a shopping trolley to a woman being violated is way over the top. 

You are more than a foot taller than me and probably younger as well. I would have said "So sorry" and made an attempt to give the man (or woman if the person was female) as much room as I could. Soft words do not equate to weakness and they can de-escalate tense situations. Being an elder has some advantages. One of them is wisdom.


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## Shero (Sep 17, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> You are not a woman and I suspect that you have never been raped. If I am wrong about the latter than what you have just written makes sense. Otherwise, to compare your spat with a man on a bus over the placement of a shopping trolley to a woman being violated is way over the top.
> 
> You are more than a foot taller than me and probably younger as well. I would have said "So sorry" and made an attempt to give the man (or woman if the person was female) as much room as I could. Soft words do not equate to weakness and they can de-escalate tense situations. Being an elder has some advantages. One of them is wisdom.



Absolument!! What I see here is an elderly man, showing no wisdom at all,but bullying a young man smaller than himself. I find this disturbing and ask myself, would the same discourtesy be shown to a white young man? Should the old not give a good example to the young?


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Shero said:


> Absolument!! What I see here is an elderly man, showing no wisdom at all,but bullying a young man smaller than himself. I find this disturbing and ask myself, would the same discourtesy be shown to a white young man? Should the old not give a good example to the young?


Once again you haven't the faintest idea of what you are talking about. 
1st, I was sitting peacefully by myself, minding my own business,  when a young thug tried to intimidate ME. 
2nd, I could couldn't care less about the color of his skin. Intimidation is intimidation, no mater what the skin color. 
3rd, thugs have not the slightest interest in seeing a "good example". They get their jollies through intimidation. They understand one thing only … raw power.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> You are lucky to have lived this long and nobody has ever pushed you around.


Perhaps I am lucky. Perhaps not.  In my very long life, some guys have attempted to push me around. Sometimes it came to blows. Though often bloodied, I have never lost a street fight.
Though it has been nearly 40 years since my last street fight, I still know how to defend myself.
Size does help... 6'3'' and 195 lbs.


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## Shero (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Once again you haven't the faintest idea of what you are talking about.
> 1st, I was sitting peacefully by myself, minding my own business,  when a young thug tried to intimidate ME.
> 2nd, I could couldn't care less about the color of his skin. Intimidation is intimidation, no mater what the skin color.
> 3rd, thugs have not the slightest interest in seeing a "good example". They get their jollies through intimidation. They understand one thing only … raw power.



That is your story and you are sticking to it. Now can we bring the young man to the witness stand to get his side of the story!!


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Shero said:


> That is your story and you are sticking to it. Now can we bring the young man to the witness stand to get his side of the story!!


My , oh my. you sure love to cause trouble. Verbal harassment is 1st cousin to physical harassment.


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

feywon said:


> Or vice versa!


Curious and sad how so many people advocate "knuckling under" .


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## Shero (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> My , oh my. you sure love to cause trouble. Verbal harassment is 1st cousin to physical harassment.



_Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the *wrong*_*.*
Jean-Jacques Rousseau


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Shero said:


> _Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the *wrong*_*.*
> Jean-Jacques Rousseau


Ha ha. That's funny. You could give lessons in insults.


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## Shero (Sep 17, 2021)

I have travelled all over the US, have met so many young ones and cannot remember one being rude to me. Attitude is what gets you through life! You show respect, you get respect from young and old.


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## Shero (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Ha ha. That's funny. You could give lessons in insults.


I could also give lessons in telling the truth, would you like a lesson?


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## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Shero said:


> I could also give lessons in telling the truth, would you like a lesson?


As I said before, you have nothing to say that I have the slightest interest in.


----------



## Shero (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> As I said before, you have nothing to say that I have the slightest interest in.


.
 Then why do you keep responding petit tête de pomme de terre?


----------



## Devi (Sep 17, 2021)

Quite happy with the Ignore button right about now.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

Devi said:


> Quite happy with the Ignore button right about now.


Yeah, I agree. Shero just went on the ignore list. I finally had enough of her endless back stabbing attacks on me.


----------



## Shero (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yeah, I agree. Shero just went on the ignore list. I finally had enough of her endless back stabbing attacks on me.


 merci beaucoup !!


----------



## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

feywon said:


> When and how did you decide the man was a jerk? When he first asked or when he didn't respond as you wished to your command to 'Just walk passed'?


It was when he 1st shouted at me !!!!


----------



## win231 (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> You are forgetting something VERY important.   If I allowed anyone to push me around, I'd have to live with the fact that I am a victim. I refuse to be a victim. The emotional impact of victimhood is a heavy burden to carry.
> If I could use an analogy ? A woman who is raped, has become a victim of her attacker. She may, or may not have suffered physical trauma BUT the knowledge that she was victimized is a heavy emotional burden to carry. In other words the emotional trauma is often far, far worse than the actual physical trauma.


Strange comparison - someone asking you to move your cart blocking an aisle vs rape.
Hmmmmmmm.


----------



## win231 (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Perhaps I am lucky. Perhaps not.  In my very long life, some guys have attempted to push me around. Sometimes it came to blows. Though often bloodied, I have never lost a street fight.
> Though it has been nearly 40 years since my last street fight, I still know how to defend myself.
> Size does help... 6'3'' and 195 lbs.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> Strange comparison - someone asking you to move your cart blocking an aisle vs rape.
> Hmmmmmmm.


Not making any such comparison at all. The comparison is about the emotional issues if I just knuckled  under and became a victim and the emotional trauma of a rape victim. For a man, to bend over and take abuse from another man is tantamount to being xxx.


----------



## win231 (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Not making any such comparison at all. The comparison is about the emotional issues if I just knuckled  under and became a victim and the emotional trauma of a rape victim. For a man, to bend over and take abuse from another man is tantamount to being xxx.


Um....well......OK.  A therapist might help.


----------



## Shero (Sep 17, 2021)

win231 said:


>


 now I am beginning to get the picture!


----------



## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

win231 said:


>


You probably think that is pretty cute. I don't see any humor in it. I make no apologies for being a man.


----------



## win231 (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yesterday, while riding on a public bus on my way back from the supermarket, I had a near violent confrontation with a jerk.
> I had my small wheeled hand cart with me and it was filled with groceries. The hand cart was PARTIALLY in the aisle but there was plenty of room for people to move passed. A 20 something black man got on and he wanted to go to the back of the bus. He could easily have edged passed but he demanded that I move the basket to near the exit. I told him, "Just walk passed" he shouted at me and he grabbed my little basket. I held on to my basket. He moved up into my face still shouting. I said "leave me alone, WALK PASSED." He pressed the issue and looked like he was getting ready to be violent.
> I stood up and said, as I TOWERED over him, "You want to hit me ? Go ahead. I'll put you in the hospital."
> 
> If that passenger had been handicapped or loaded down with packages, I'd have moved my little wheeled basket to the exit area. BUT, not for a jerk.


Nice editing job, by the way.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> Um....well......OK.  A therapist might help.


If a man does not "bend over" to another man, he does not need therapy. He is self contained. 
If, however, he DOES "bend over", then he surely does need therapy.


----------



## win231 (Sep 17, 2021)

senior chef said:


> If a man does not "bend over" to another man, he does not need therapy. He is self contained.
> If, however, he DOES "bend over", then he surely does need therapy.


Hey man.  I never bend over to any man.  NOBODY messes with me!

_I'm so tough, I don't even have to read a book.  I just stare at it until it gives me the inform_ation I want.
_I do 600 push ups every morning.  I don't lift myself up - I push the earth down.
Ya know how I make my coffee?  I grind the beans with my teeth & boil the water with my rage._

I bet ya can't beat that!


----------



## senior chef (Sep 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> Hey man.  I never bend over to any man.  NOBODY messes with me!
> 
> _I'm so tough, I don't even have to read a book.  I just stare at it until it gives me the inform_ation I want.
> _I do 600 push ups every morning.  I don't lift myself up - I push the earth down.
> ...


If, as you say, you never "bend over" to any man, then you should have no problem with what I have said.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 17, 2021)

Well, I have a problem with you looking to start a fight in a public bus.
Other passengers could get hurt. Fights should always be taken outside.


----------



## terry123 (Sep 17, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> True, and we can take it or leave it. If we take his word, the guy was a jerk.
> 
> I don't care what your excuse is, a bad childhood or whatever, if you're a jerk, you can cry me a river, I'm not taking any crap from you. (not _you_, personally)


I am with you on this one.


----------



## Gary O' (Sep 17, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I don't care what your excuse is, a bad childhood or whatever, if you're a jerk, you can cry me a river, I'm not taking any crap from you


and that's where it is these days

Young folks are lacking

Too much permissive BS

Seems they're feeling for the edge, because it's just not there for 'em

I'll show 'em where it's at

I've shown the way many times

This ol' dawg ain't gonna roll over and play dead

Not now

Not ever


----------



## Murrmurr (Sep 18, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> and that's where it is these days
> 
> Young folks are lacking
> 
> ...


I'm an averaged sized man and I only look kind of tough when I'm wearing my knit hat, but I was that scrappy kid who didn't care how big or bad the other kid was, I refused to be bullied. I'm still that kid. It isn't worth my time if some arsewipe cuts me off in traffic or some petty crap like that - go ahead, dude, enjoy your karma - but coming across some punk who thinks he'd like to bully me? Nah. He'll be rethinking that.


----------



## win231 (Sep 18, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> and that's where it is these days
> 
> Young folks are lacking
> 
> ...


Well, ya see, "Senior Chef" ain't got yer look.  Or your style.


----------



## jujube (Sep 18, 2021)

I'm waiting for the part where everyone on the bus rose to their feet and gave him a 20-minute standing ovation for his heroic performance........


----------



## Aunt Bea (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> there are ALWAYS obstructions in the aisle of any public bus in my neighborhood. it is entirely normal here.  people are quite used to it. Only a thug would make an issue of it.


It may be the norm but if I was the one responsible for the obstruction I would make an effort to accommodate anyone that took issue with it.

It just seems like the right/logical thing to do.


----------



## Judycat (Sep 18, 2021)

All he did was stand up to him. The guy grabbed his damn cart and was putting his face in his space. Nobody needs that even on a good day. People have become a bunch of lame-asses in this country. All I ever heard growing up was stand up for yourself. Kid was making trouble and needed to be taken down a notch as I expect someone else would do if I tried that s**t.


----------



## Shero (Sep 18, 2021)

Scenario:
Bus travelling nothing happens until car coming from other direction slams into bus.
On bus  are old people with walking sticks, pregnant woman, young children.
Hell breaks loose when gasoline is smelt, fire in back of bus.
People desperately try to get off bus but cannot reach the door, because door is obstructed!!
Several injured and two old people died in the fire of the bus


----------



## Sunny (Sep 18, 2021)

Um, where was the bus driver in all this?  Shouldn't this have been resolved immediately by him/her?

BTW, the word is "past," not "passed."


----------



## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

win231 said:


> Strange comparison - someone asking you to move your cart blocking an aisle vs rape.
> Hmmmmmmm.


True, not to mention somewhat offensive to rape victims of both genders and all ages.   However, at 75 with my own ****** assault some 55+ yrs in the past, it's not worth my energy or ruining my mood to take offense at such ill conceived remarks (at least not for myself--if it was said in presence of someone i knew was a recent rape victim i'd likely go ballistic on the speaker's ass). While it impacted my wariness of certain types of men (who BTW come from all demographic and economic classes) and to be hyper aware of my environment, it also gave me an edge, a resolve that allowed me to ward off other men who wanted to force me--to do anything really.

It sort of seems the whole point this post  was a good deal of chest thumping-- "See what a macho man i am."  Maybe needing confirmation from others in his age bracket that he did well?  And maybe a bit of having it both ways--the OP gets sympathy from some (tho not as many as he would like) for having been 'accosted' by this jerk, but also, at least in his own mind, gets some admiration for the way he literally 'stood up' to the guy. 

Actually a better tactic would have been to loudly say "I'm sorry, you look like such a fit young man I didn't realize you had some infirmity that makes turning sideways as others do impossible for you." and move the cart (either with great ease demonstrating your fitness or struggling so he looks like even more of jerk to everyone around for making you move it). If the guy was just being a total jerk that's going to make it a lot harder for him to cast himself in a good light when he thinks about it later or if he recounts the incident to others--because he either has to admit he was too lazy to turn sideways or that he was trying to bully an old man (no offense to Senor Chef--but that's the spin he himself put on the incident that this young man challenged him because he perceived SC as an 'old man'.)--Yeah that takes a lot of cojones--bullying any old person. Even 'thugs' as SC also called this guy realize that doesn't make them look tough.


----------



## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

win231 said:


> Um....well......OK.  A therapist might help.


Doubt it,  people with self-images like Senor Chef presents do not acknowledge there is anything wrong with their world view. They assume their perceptions are accurate and everyone else is deluded.


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Run-in with a jerk



Wow, you got lots of reactions here.

I agree the guy was a jerk, but it seems like it would not have taken much to defuse the thing.  A lot of times it is best to just try to avoid jerks, confronting them accomplishes little.


----------



## Gary O' (Sep 18, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> I agree the guy was a jerk, but it seems like it would not have taken much to defuse the thing. A lot of times it is best to just try to avoid jerks, confronting them accomplishes little.


I have to argue that a bit

A lot of young folk need some redirection
They're screaming for it

They press an issue, any issue, to test the water
Because, for too long now, they've had no foundation

My heart goes out to these *'jerks'*
I won't let them have their way
Because they don't even know what that way is

They are our future

If I can make 'em think twice before they pull some shit, my job is done

I have made many a young friend from one time jerks 

Know what's fun?
Jerking a knot in their tail
Then
Grabbing 'em, and giving 'em a hug



Alligatorob said:


> A lot of times it is best to just try to avoid jerks


That....accomplishes little


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 18, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> I have to argue that a bit


Gary, I understand what  you are saying and see the logic.  Particularly in the right setting and if the "jerk" is friend or family.  But with a stranger on a crowded but I am am not so sure.


----------



## HarryHawk (Sep 18, 2021)

*Dalton:*
I want you to be nice until it's time to not be nice.


----------



## Gary O' (Sep 18, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> But with a stranger on a crowded but I am am not so sure.


No argument there
It's never a sure thing


----------



## fmdog44 (Sep 18, 2021)

Lee said:


> Why is it necessary for you mention that the man was black? Just curious.


Would you have raised your question if he said the man was white?


----------



## fmdog44 (Sep 18, 2021)

Knight said:


> That doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> You say
> Quote
> ...


Why did the black man take issue with the cart when no once else did? Anybody???????


----------



## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Would you have raised your question if he said the man was white?


i likely would have. 
But if the man was white and not 'heavily facially tattooed' OP would likely not have used descriptors at all and possibly would not have reacted as strongly as he did either.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Would you have raised your question if he said the man was white?





fmdog44 said:


> Why did the black man take issue with the cart when no once else did? Anybody???????


Exactly !  Several ladies had just passed by me without any problem. But, that young man needed to make an issue out of it. 
Folks, their are types of people who think the world should kiss their arse. When they don't get their way, they often become violent.


----------



## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Why did the black man take issue with the cart when no once else did? Anybody???????


Firstly, the key thing here is we have *only* the OP's version of events, and it's quite clear if you read carefully his comments on other threads as well as this one that he somehow feels more threatened by some men than others before they say/do anything. It is also pretty clear how self-centered and self-serving SC is. It is altogether possible that other people had difficulty getting past his cart, may even have made faces at him or muttered as they past but he may not have even noticed how many he inconvenienced since they didn't confront him directly and/or weren't from the demographics that get his 'machismo' riled up. 

i do think this has been a useful thread, a lot of people revealed a lot more about their character than may  realize, about their ability to reason and to see more than one side to an incident when you only have one person's  highly loaded account.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> i likely would have.
> But if the man was white and not 'heavily facially tattooed' OP would likely not have used descriptors at all and possibly would not have reacted as strongly as he did either.


Nothing wrong with descriptors. I could have said a young man with dreadlocks.
Side note: I have had problems with whites as well as blacks.  Skin color is not the issue. Attitude is.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> Firstly, the key thing here is we have *only* the OP's version of events, and it's quite clear if you read carefully his comments on other threads as well as this one that he somehow feels more threatened by some men than others before they say/do anything. It is also pretty clear how self-centered and self-serving SC is. It is altogether possible that other people had difficulty getting past his cart, may even have made faces at him or muttered as they past but he may not have even noticed how many he inconvenienced since they didn't confront him directly and/or weren't from the demographics that get his 'machismo' riled up.
> 
> i do think this has been a useful thread, a lot of people revealed a lot more about their character than may  realize, about their ability to reason and to see more than one side to an incident when you only have one person's  highly loaded account.


Interesting how you take sides with the young thug and not with me... the old man. Curious.


----------



## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> and that's where it is these days
> 
> Young folks are lacking
> 
> ...


i get where you're coming from, Gary.  But i think we have to remember that some of our generation are not necessarily (uhhh, how can i say this?) 'not jerks'  just by virtue of their age.


----------



## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Nothing wrong with descriptors. I could have said a young man with dreadlocks.
> Side note: I have had problems with whites as well as blacks.  Skin color is not the issue. Attitude is.


i suspect you have problems with a lot of people due to your attitudes.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> i suspect you have problems with a lot of people due to your attitudes.


I have a problem with people who attempt push me around. Call it attitude if you wish, but I call it standing my ground. Once a person starts bending over, it eventually becomes impossible to stand up straight.


----------



## Sassycakes (Sep 18, 2021)

This brought back a memory of an encounter I had with a nutty person. I  had gone to the doctor with my husband. The doctor walked out of the room for a minute and my husband told me angrily that I told the Doctor too much and told me to leave the room. He said he was intelligent enough to talk to the Doctor himself. I went to go sit in the room but all the seats were taken. So I went outside to get some air a lady came up to me yelling and then she grabbed my neck. She was yelling "Do I look fat to you. My husband says I'm fat." Luckily there was a security guard there and he grabbed her away from me.I ran back into the waiting room just as my Husband walked in. He called me and said, "Honey could you fill out these forms for me?" I can't tell you what I said to him but needless to say, I did not fill out the forms.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

Sassycakes said:


> This brought back a memory of an encounter I had with a nutty person. I  had gone to the doctor with my husband. The doctor walked out of the room for a minute and my husband told me angrily that I told the Doctor too much and told me to leave the room. He said he was intelligent enough to talk to the Doctor himself. I went to go sit in the room but all the seats were taken. So I went outside to get some air a lady came up to me yelling and then she grabbed my neck. She was yelling "Do I look fat to you. My husband says I'm fat." Luckily there was a security guard there and he grabbed her away from me.I ran back into came in the waiting room just as my Husband walked in. He called me and said, "Honey could you fill out these forms for me?" I can't tell you what I said to him but needless to say, I did not fill out the forms.


Yeah, sometimes it seems the world is overflowing with nutty people. Just a few minutes before I got on that bus, I watched as a 20 something year old was screaming at the sky and shaking his fist. Drugs? Psychotic ?


----------



## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Interesting how you take sides with the young thug and not with me... the old man. Curious.


Curious to you because you presume and assume too much about others.  Age does not confer virtue of any kind, nor integrity, values.  Are there more young people around now than in our youth who disrespect elders?  Perhaps, tho of course the "bad" ones are more noticeable and get more media attention.  But our generation were not universally thoughtful and respectful (sometimes we had good cause to stand up, sometimes not). 

We have only your highly onesided and emotionally loaded account. Descriptors are fine when they are straight forward and not designed to paint the other as a 'villain'. If i'd ever seen a complaint of yours lodged at someone who was not part of a group that gets frequently stereotyped i might be more inclined to buy that. You seem to expect everyone to accept your judgements, sorry this old woman thinks for herself, always have. Much to the chagrin of people who saw themselves as having some kind of authority over me. i'll play by rules when necessary, but i reserve my right to make my own judgements.

It would never occur to you that today's 'old men' with attitudes like yours were the contemporaries of my youth who tried to manipulate me, who disrespected, dismissed/devalued my opinions frequently and in one instance physically assaulted me. And yet you have the nerve to compare the emotional impact of your own self-imposed dilemma (can't *appear* weak) with the emotional impact of ****** assault?

The only person who would have seen you as weak (if anyone else besides you was even paying much attention) would have been you. When you could have moved the cart (or 'little basket' which was it?) in a way that conveyed he was being feeble by asking you to move it. i know you're smart enough you could have thought of them because you're smart enough in your choice of words walk the line in the OP to walk the line between potential 'victim' and righteously tough old dude.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> Curious to you because you presume and assume too much about others.  Age does not confer virtue of any kind, nor integrity, values.  Are there more young people around now than in our youth who disrespect elders?  Perhaps, tho of course the "bad" ones are more noticeable and get more media attention.  But our generation were not universally thoughtful and respectful (sometimes we had good cause to stand up, sometimes not).
> 
> We have only your highly onesided and emotionally loaded account. Descriptors are fine when they are straight forward and not designed to paint the other as a 'villain'. If i'd ever seen a complaint of yours lodged at someone who was not part of a group that gets frequently stereotyped i might be more inclined to buy that. You seem to expect everyone to accept your judgements, sorry this old woman thinks for herself, always have. Much to the chagrin of people who saw themselves as having some kind of authority over me. i'll play by rules when necessary, but i reserve my right to make my own judgements.
> 
> ...


Seems likely that you would have been much more comfortable reading about a man who was passive and submissive . Why is that ?
You do seem determined to paint me in a negative light . Why is that ?
Don't expect me to apologize for being a man.
I suggest you work out your anger at men in some other form.


----------



## Nathan (Sep 18, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Soft words do not equate to weakness and they can de-escalate tense situations. Being an elder has some advantages. One of them is wisdom.


@Warrigal ,  Well said on all points.    Hard fist to hard fist causes unnecessary destruction, and nobody goes unscathed.


----------



## Knight (Sep 18, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Why did the black man take issue with the cart when no once else did? Anybody???????


We don't know if the black man had any physical difficulties do we?  We don't know if anyone else did all we know is the man was much smaller. We do know we only have one side of an encounter that could easily turned bad for not only the chef & the other bus passenger but anyone seated close to them. 

We do know the back of the bus had seats open that could have been used. Sitting back there would eliminate partially blocking the aisle. I'm pretty sure getting off the bus is just as easy from the back seat as it is from the others.

What does it matter the color of the man's skin? If it was courteous to move for a handicapped why not extend that same courtesy to another bus rider?  Or is it OK to be the kind of person that displays to the lack of civility to others no matter their ethnicity?


----------



## Nathan (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> You are forgetting something VERY important.   If I allowed anyone to push me around, I'd have to live with the fact that I am a victim. I refuse to be a victim. The emotional impact of victimhood is a heavy burden to carry.
> If I could use an analogy ? A woman who is raped, has become a victim of her attacker. She may, or may not have suffered physical trauma BUT the knowledge that she was victimized is a heavy emotional burden to carry. In other words the emotional trauma is often far, far worse than the actual physical trauma.


Labeling oneself as a "victim", loser" or whatever is _*the*_ burden.     Anytime a person is ready and willing to fight, they need to be prepared to lose, as victory is never guaranteed.   If the guy punches you in the nose, and you stop fighting as a result...it's over.    But, you don't have to wear the "victim" label, *it's just that you weren't willing to let a minor incident go, and now you have a busted nose*.


Professional fighters don't label themselves as victims, they just count the wins and losses.


----------



## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Seems likely that you would have been much more comfortable reading about a man who was passive and submissive . Why is that ?


Well, it 'seems' like that because you are prone to making assumptions about people and assuming your distorted perceptions are accurate. Which is why i don't accept your stories (yeah i remember the first one you told coming in here, and the brouhaha about 'no politics') at face value as being 'true'.   

Real strength is besting an opponent without having to 'tower over' them or throw a punch. Iif the other throws a punch first, have at it. One can be assertive without being aggressive. But read this comment of mine prompting your response i've quoted here carefully: i actually said you could have come off seeming strong/unafraid in other ways than responding as you did. Even suggested that i think you are smart enough to have turned the tables on him, made him feel weak pretty much with words. Of course being human i could have been wrong about that. 

But as usual you ignore anything you don't have an easy (likely rehearsed) comeback for in favor of *trying* to put me on the defensive. Up till now this has just been an intellectual exercise for me, and frankly not even that much of a challenge. i found more of interest in other people's responses than in your repetitive thinly disguised pleas for both emotional support and admiration. Not to mention how differently you respond to men that 'disagree' with you than to women who disagree with you. You acknowledge the points men make before repeating,in effect' "I'd rather die fighting."


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Sep 18, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Here's why:
> "When it comes to comparing Christianity with Islam, one thing is without doubt. We do not see Christians flying jet planes into buildings filled with people."  said he in Diva's thread.
> 
> He had a run-in with a jerk when he looked in a mirror.  Yet, his cooking threads are nice.


OMG Pepper! I couldn't have said it better myself. Don't know about his cooking threads though. I could care less about those. Clearly the chef is a bigot.  @Lee 
@feywon Oooohhhh my dear friend...love your responses. Apparently he doesn't know who he's tangling with!


----------



## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> You are forgetting something VERY important.   If I allowed anyone to push me around, I'd have to live with the fact that I am a victim. I refuse to be a victim. The emotional impact of victimhood is a heavy burden to carry.
> If I could use an analogy ? A woman who is raped, has become a victim of her attacker. She may, or may not have suffered physical trauma BUT the knowledge that she was victimized is a heavy emotional burden to carry. In other words the emotional trauma is often far, far worse than the actual physical trauma.


1) Maybe Nathan didn't forget anything, maybe he just perceives the world  differently than you do.

2) Many rape *survivors* if they get the proper counseling and support see themselves as survivors, not victims, and some of us vow not to be victimized that way ever again.  While you may think you're being all enlightened talking about the emotional burden of being a rape victim (because you have some mental hangup about viewing yourself that way)  until you've been sexually assaulted by some one who beat the crap out of you to subdue you, you don't get to make pronouncements about which trauma was worse--*hell* i have been thru exactly that and i would not consider speaking for any other ****** assault victim about what was the worst trauma!  Different human beings experience the same basic thing in individual ways.  For some reason that seems a difficult concept for you.


----------



## carouselsilver (Sep 18, 2021)

@feywon: Your words inspire and enlighten!


----------



## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Seems likely that you would have been much more comfortable reading about a man who was passive and submissive . Why is that ?
> You do seem determined to paint me as the bad guy . Why is that ?





feywon said:


> 1) Maybe Nathan didn't forget anything, maybe he just perceives the world  differently than you do.
> 
> 2) Many rape *survivors* if they get the proper counseling and support see themselves as survivors, not victims, and some of us vow not to be victimized that way ever again.  While you may think you're being all enlightened talking about the emotional burden of being a rape victim (because you have some mental hangup about viewing yourself that way)  until you've been sexually assaulted by some one who beat the crap out of you to subdue you, you don't get to make pronouncements about which trauma was worse--*hell* i have been thru exactly that and i would not consider speaking for any other ****** assault victim about what was the worst trauma!  Different human beings experience the same basic thing in individual ways.  For some reason that seems a difficult concept for you.


It's ok. really. I understand that you have problems with men. If it helps you deal with your past traumas, by finding fault with me, then I fully understand.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> It's ok. really. I understand that you have problems with men. If it helps you deal with your past traumas, by finding fault with me, then I fully understand.


Patronising, much.


----------



## Shalimar (Sep 18, 2021)

win231 said:


> Hey man.  I never bend over to any man.  NOBODY messes with me!
> 
> _I'm so tough, I don't even have to read a book.  I just stare at it until it gives me the inform_ation I want.
> _I do 600 push ups every morning.  I don't lift myself up - I push the earth down.
> ...


I am tired, so my eyes read that you grind bears with your teeth. Now that is a man!


----------



## win231 (Sep 18, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> I am tired, so my eyes read that you grind bears with your teeth. Now that is a man!


I've done that too!
And last year, a Cobra bit me.
It was a terrible sight - watching it curl up & die.


----------



## Shalimar (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> 1) Maybe Nathan didn't forget anything, maybe he just perceives the world  differently than you do.
> 
> 2) Many rape *survivors* if they get the proper counseling and support see themselves as survivors, not victims, and some of us vow not to be victimized that way ever again.  While you may think you're being all enlightened talking about the emotional burden of being a rape victim (because you have some mental hangup about viewing yourself that way)  until you've been sexually assaulted by some one who beat the crap out of you to subdue you, you don't get to make pronouncements about which trauma was worse--*hell* i have been thru exactly that and i would not consider speaking for any other ****** assault victim about what was the worst trauma!  Different human beings experience the same basic thing in individual ways.  For some reason that seems a difficult concept for you.


QFT.


----------



## win231 (Sep 18, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Let's examine this statement.   O.K., here's the deal: once you're *dead*, all that pride and "saving face" is meaningless. And no one cares.


Well, no one cares - unless he has family who will suffer for his need to prove he's a tough guy.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

win231 said:


> Well, no one cares - unless he has family who will suffer for his need to prove he's a tough guy.


When traveling around, many people are taken advantage of when they act timid.


----------



## Shalimar (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> It's ok. really. I understand that you have problems with men. If it helps you deal with your past traumas, by finding fault with me, then I fully understand.


I work with trauma victims, some male, some female. Perhaps it helps you to deal with your issues by finding fault with women who disagree with you. You certainly seem to have less tolerance for their opinions that you do for men’s.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> I work with trauma victims, some male, some female. Perhaps it helps you to deal with your issues by finding fault with women who disagree with you. You certainly seem to have less tolerance for their opinions that you do for men’s.


It should come as no surprise that men understand other men.


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## Shalimar (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> It should come as no surprise that men understand other men.


Absolutely, but it is not always necessary to understand another person in order to respect a difference of opinion.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Absolutely, but it is not always necessary to understand another person in order to respect a difference of opinion.


Then it is only fair that others respect my opinion.


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## Shalimar (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Then it is only fair that others respect my opinion.


Hopefully, the goal is for respect on both sides.


----------



## Nathan (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Then it is only fair that others respect my opinion.


Granted, we're just tryin' to keep you from gettin' killed bro...


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## win231 (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> When traveling around, many people are taken advantage of when they act timid.


"Timid?"  You confuse intelligent with timid.
No one has ever taken advantage of me.  It's a miracle, I tell ya.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Hopefully, the goal is for respect on both sides.


good idea. When will some of those others begin to respect my opinion ?


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## win231 (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> good idea. When will some of those others begin to respect my opinion ?


When they stop being grown ups & their minds become 12 yrs old again.


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## Gary O' (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> i get where you're coming from, Gary. But i think we have to remember that some of our generation are not necessarily (uhhh, how can i say this?) 'not jerks' just by virtue of their age.


Oh, I know
There's a good lot of young folks
Oftentimes, seems the ones most prominent aren't as 'nice'
Although, some make good wood workers, turns out


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## Warrigal (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> When traveling around, many people are taken advantage of when they act timid.


Timid, or civil?


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Granted, we're just tryin' to keep you from gettin' killed bro...


I don't spend a lot of time worrying about getting killed. I try to go about my business in a peaceful manner. But sometimes bullies try to take advantage of my age.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Timid, or civil?


Timid or civil, it matters not. Thugs are going to do the only things they know how to do... intimidate others.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

win231 said:


> When they stop being grown ups & their minds become 12 yrs old again.


I'm not quite clear on what you are saying. ???


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## win231 (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Timid or civil, it matters not. Thugs are going to do the only things they know how to do... intimidate others.


There are many types of thugs.
Leaving your cart where it blocks an aisle makes you a passive-aggressive thug.


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## Nathan (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I don't spend a lot of time worrying about getting killed. I try to go about my business in a peaceful manner. But sometimes bullies try to take advantage of my age.


I do get what you're saying, totally. 
  I used to work in a prison, as a staff member(and being 65 yr.s old) I had to watch out for myself, present an air of confidence and take no $h!t from anybody, no matter what.    I always found a way to *not* escalate any conflicts, and pursue a peaceful result.
The inmates respected me, called me "OG", which doesn't mean_ old guy_ but "original gangster"...

IMO it's always better to find some common ground, rather than to butt heads.


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## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> It's ok. really. I understand that you have problems with men. If it helps you deal with your past traumas, by finding fault with me, then I fully understand.


You understand very little about being human and about women.You know where you can put the patronizing attitude.

i don't have a problem with men--i've raised two very fine ones who know the difference between being assertive and being aggressive. One did 20 yrs in the Navy, the other is a damn good Dad to his son. What's more i have some very good long time male friends.

What i have a problem with is people like you. Who try to pretend you care about others and that you are open minded when in fact you are all bound up in all kinds of stereotypical thinking not only about others, but about what makes a man someone to be respected. 

Funny how you don't make any condescending remarks to the men who disagree with you, tho maybe some sly implications that because they'd prefer to avoid violence unless absolutely necessary that they are weak and have a victim mentality.  Speaks volumes about you and gives clues to your true nature and issues.


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## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Patronising, much.


Extremely and he is very lucky this is not an in person conversation, and also that i won't resort to laying out his issues for all to see because i enjoy most of the people here too much to something that might get me suspended or banned.  Giving this fella his come-uppance isn't worth losing the rest of you!


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## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

carouselsilver said:


> @feywon: Your words inspire and enlighten!


Thank you! They should have a 'blushing' emoji in the 'reaction' selection.

--close as i could come.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

win231 said:


> There are many types of thugs.
> Leaving your cart where it blocks an aisle makes you a passive-aggressive thug.


Clearly, you don't know what it is like on our city buses, here at the Mexican border.  More often than not, people are partially or even completely blocking the aisle. It is quite normal. So, do you now suggest that they are all passive aggressive thugs ? Or is only me ?


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## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

BTW, i have much respect for the way some of the other men have challenged the OP and debated with him.  And the difference in how he responds to men who disagree with him compared to how he responds to women who take issue with him reveals his 'character' alone.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> Extremely and he is very lucky this is not an in person conversation, and also that i won't resort to laying out his issues for all to see because i enjoy most of the people here too much to something that might get me suspended or banned.  Giving this fella his come-uppance isn't worth losing the rest of you!


My, oh my , but you are an aggressive female aren't you. Your issues are getting the best of you.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> BTW, i have much respect for the way some of the other men have challenged the OP and debated with him.  And the difference in how he responds to men who disagree with him compared to how he responds to women who take issue with him reveals his 'character' alone.


There is a big difference between how the men have responded and how some of the women have responded. The men have not made malicious remarks.


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## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> My, oh my , but you are an aggressive female aren't you. Your issues are getting the best of you.


No, i'm an assertive, independent female and that is why you are not simply totally ignoring my comments because you're futilely trying to put me 'in my place'.  Because you  don't like women who think for themselves.  Even tho some people believe oft repeated lies, that still doesn't make them true. 

 You don't seem to understand that not everybody buys your representation of yourself.   You also  don't understand that some people are strong enough human beings emotionally that we are highly selective about who's opinions matter to us.  Anyone who thinks you're right about me isn't perceptive enough for me care about their opinion.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> No, i'm an assertive, independent female and that is why you are not simply totally ignoring my comments because you're futilely trying to put me 'in my place'.  Because you  don't like women who think for themselves.  Even tho some people believe oft repeated lies, that still doesn't make them true.
> 
> You don't seem to understand that not everybody buys your representation of yourself.   You also  don't understand that some people are strong enough human beings emotionally that we are highly selective about who's opinions matter to us.  Anyone who thinks you're right about me isn't perceptive enough for me care about their opinion.


Assertive you say ? I say you were looking for a fight from the very beginning.


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## feywon (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> There is a big difference between how the men have responded and how some of the women have responded. The men have not made malicious remarks.


 

You're that fragile?  That anything any of us said wounds you to the point of calling it malicious to rationalize not even addressing valid points made by some of us--only finding things you think you can use to belittle and condescend to us? You poor thing!  i'll leave alone.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> And the reason you wouldn't move your hand cart that was "partially" blocking the aisle, to let this person pass ,was ? If a person has to "edge by" your cart, it does sound like an obstruction in the aisle.
> If you got on the bus dragging your cart, and someone refused to move their cart that was "partially" blocking the aisle, you would have what?


You would have a jumbled up mess. Around here, that is quite common.  I can't tell you how many times I've had to stand up in the aisle because I could not get passed someone's heavy cart. There have even been times when the bus driver has told me to enter via the rear exit because the aisle was packed with carts and people. 
In the case I first posted, the bus was only 1/2 full, and my cart was only blocking part of the aisle. Plenty of room for anybody who wished to move passed me. It was not until that young guy yelled at me did trouble start.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> You're that fragile?  That anything any of us said wounds you to the point of calling it malicious to rationalize not even addressing valid points made by some of us--only finding things you think you can use to belittle and condescend to us? You poor thing!  i'll leave alone.


I don't recall saying I was "wounded". I said malicious remarks meant to attack me.
Moreover, you may THINK your points are valid, but I assure you that they were made to harass me. In any event, I forgive you and I understand you have issues with men.


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## oldman (Sep 18, 2021)

A few years back, I walked into an auto parts store looking for a new PCV valve for my Envoy. I stand 6’4” and weigh in at about 210# right now, so I am no little man. As I walked up the aisle to look for my part, another guy about 5’10” and wearing a t-shirt with a denim vest stood in my way andI asked him to move twice. Finally, I asked him if he was deaf. He turned his back to me and on the back of his vest were the words, “Hell’s Angels.” I became rigid for a moment, but finally awoke and told him to have a nice day and then left the store.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

oldman said:


> A few years back, I walked into an auto parts store looking for a new PCV valve for my Envoy. I stand 6’4” and weigh in at about 210# right now, so I am no little man. As I walked up the aisle to look for my part, another guy about 5’10” and wearing a t-shirt with a denim vest stood in my way andI asked him to move twice. Finally, I asked him if he was deaf. He turned his back to me and on the back of his vest were the words, “Hell’s Angels.” I became rigid for a moment, but finally awoke and told him to have a nice day and then left the store.


Smart choice. Hell's Angels are not people to mess with.


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## oldman (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Smart choice. Hell's Angels are not people to mess with.


The thing about groups of this type is that you don’t just fight one of them. You fight them all.


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## Warrigal (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I don't recall saying I was "wounded". I said malicious remarks meant to attack me.
> Moreover, you may THINK your points are valid, but I assure you that they were made to harass me. In any event, I forgive you and I understand you have issues with men.


You truly cannot see that this is patronising? Women don't react well to being patronised by men who presume to know what they are thinking.


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## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> You truly cannot see that this is patronising? Women don't react well to being patronised by men who presume to know what they are thinking.


And yet some women presume to know what I am thinking.


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## Warrigal (Sep 18, 2021)

I cannot always know what you are thinking. 
I can sometimes read between the lines of written words.
We all do that to more or lesser degree.


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## Sunny (Sep 18, 2021)

Senior chef, I hope your cooking is better than your spelling.  I've already pointed out that it isn't "room to walk passed;"  it's "room to walk past."  But you're still continuing to use the wrong spelling, and it's very confusing to even read what you are saying.

Passed:  The past tense of Pass. It's a verb.
   Example:  An hour passed, and then he finally called.

Past:  Two meanings, adjective and adverb

1. Adjective: The entity of time before and up to the present
   Example:  The news has been horrible for the past month.

2.  Adverb: Walking or moving past means you are moving near the person and going to the other side of them.

Whatever point you think you are making is getting lost in your spelling confusion.


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## Shero (Sep 18, 2021)

The court heard only one side of story
Witness feywon hit the nail about chest thumping. In other words, the Tarzan effect.
Known fact: Tarzan effect, affects some men past their prime and needing to prove something.
Antidote for Tarzan effect, buy punching bag and use at home before leaving home.
The verdict is clear: the story is paper thin.
Judgement for the plaintiff: urgent anger management classes, classes in humility, classes in telling the truth.
court notes: the Plaintiff failed in his attempt to spread hate towards Muslims in another thread. Plaintiff is trying to spread hate against young black men by starting this thread by citing imaginary story and again FAILED!


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## win231 (Sep 18, 2021)

feywon said:


> Extremely and he is very lucky this is not an in person conversation, and also that i won't resort to laying out his issues for all to see because i enjoy most of the people here too much to something that might get me suspended or banned.  Giving this fella his come-uppance isn't worth losing the rest of you!


I wouldn't worry about that.  You did just fine in Post #146.


----------



## win231 (Sep 18, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Clearly, you don't know what it is like on our city buses, here at the Mexican border.  More often than not, people are partially or even completely blocking the aisle. It is quite normal. So, do you now suggest that they are all passive aggressive thugs ? Or is only me ?


Yeah.....Dem people's always up in der doin' dat stuff.


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## Matrix (Sep 18, 2021)

*A message to all members: *

Please avoid using *any* sex related words, even you think it's family friendly. Google will warn me via Email, and I would have to delete the discussions, I have been warned like 50 times. If I can't use Google ads, I can't afford to run this forum.


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## Shero (Sep 18, 2021)

Please respect what Matrix  said, but Matrix is it possible to lock the thread instead of removing?

There is a lot to learn from the comments here. Merci!


----------



## win231 (Sep 18, 2021)

Shero said:


> Please respect what Matrix  said, but Matrix is it possible to lock the thread instead of removing?
> 
> There is a lot to learn from the comments here. Merci!


de rien


----------



## senior chef (Sep 18, 2021)

Knight said:


> *We don't know if the black man had any physical difficulties do we?*  We don't know if anyone else did all we know is the man was much smaller. We do know we only have one side of an encounter that could easily turned bad for not only the chef & the other bus passenger but anyone seated close to them.
> 
> *We do know the back of the bus had seats open that could have been used.* Sitting back there would eliminate partially blocking the aisle. I'm pretty sure getting off the bus is just as easy from the back seat as it is from the others.
> 
> What does it matter the color of the man's skin? If it was courteous to move for a handicapped why not extend that same courtesy to another bus rider?  Or is it OK to be the kind of person that displays to the lack of civility to others no matter their ethnicity?


There are several things wrong with the above post.

1.) *"We don't know if the black man had any physical difficulties do we?".*  Interesting how the black man has become the victim , when it fact he initiated the confrontation.  Physical difficulties ? Hmm.  Perhaps he was on crutches?  Better still, why not make him nearly blind ?

2.) *"We do know that the back of the bus had seats open  that could have been used".* Oh, really ? Obviously you have no knowledge, what-so-ever, about San Diego busses.  Every single one of them , that I have ever used, have 3 steps UP, in order to get to the rear most portion of the bus. I was as far back in the bus as I could get. I could not have lifted my food laden cart up those stairs.


----------



## Nathan (Sep 18, 2021)

oldman said:


> A few years back, I walked into an auto parts store looking for a new PCV valve for my Envoy. I stand 6’4” and weigh in at about 210# right now, so I am no little man. As I walked up the aisle to look for my part, another guy about 5’10” and wearing a t-shirt with a denim vest stood in my way andI asked him to move twice. Finally, I asked him if he was deaf. He turned his back to me and on the back of his vest were the words, “Hell’s Angels.” I became rigid for a moment, but finally awoke and told him to have a nice day and then left the store.


As tempting as it would have been to jab your fist into his mug and drop him like a bad habit...sometimes it's best to let-it-go and exit stage right.

Seriously, outlaw bikers are 7th graders trapped in [big] adult bodies.  They are *all* testosterone and ZERO intellect...best to steer clear of 'em.


----------



## oldman (Sep 19, 2021)

Nathan said:


> As tempting as it would have been to jab your fist into his mug and drop him like a bad habit...sometimes it's best to let-it-go and exit stage right.
> 
> Seriously, outlaw bikers are 7th graders trapped in [big] adult bodies.  They are *all* testosterone and ZERO intellect...best to steer clear of 'em.


When I got into my truck and was able to drive away without being followed, I knew the Lord was with me on that day. Like I wrote earlier, you don't just take one of them on. They fight in packs.


----------



## Knight (Sep 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> There are several things wrong with the above post.
> 
> 1.) *"We don't know if the black man had any physical difficulties do we?".*  Interesting how the black man has become the victim , when it fact he initiated the confrontation.  Physical difficulties ? Hmm.  Perhaps he was on crutches?  Better still, why not make him nearly blind ?
> 
> 2.) *"We do know that the back of the bus had seats open  that could have been used".* Oh, really ? Obviously you have no knowledge, what-so-ever, about San Diego busses.  Every single one of them , that I have ever used, have 3 steps UP, in order to get to the rear most portion of the bus. I was as far back in the bus as I could get. I could not have lifted my food laden cart up those stairs.


#1 Still don't know if the man had any handicap that wasn't visible. Not everyone that had joint replacement walks or moves awkwardly but can have difficulty twisting in a confined space.  Legally blind not visible but makes navigating obstacles difficult. 

#2. You are right I don't know the configuration of San Diego busses. From what you describe there are no steps to get in but after you get in there are steps to access seating. Interesting that you describe yourself as large & capable of putting a smaller man in the hospital, but don't have the strength to drag a cart up 3 steps.


----------



## win231 (Sep 19, 2021)

Knight said:


> #1 Still don't know if the man had any handicap that wasn't visible. Not everyone that had joint replacement walks or moves awkwardly but can have difficulty twisting in a confined space.  Legally blind not visible but makes navigating obstacles difficult.
> 
> #2. You are right I don't know the configuration of San Diego busses. From what you describe there are no steps to get in but after you get in there are steps to access seating. Interesting that you describe yourself as large & capable of putting a smaller man in the hospital, but don't have the strength to drag a cart up 3 steps.


Macho men who never grew up are always "Puffing."


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

Knight said:


> #1 Still don't know if the man had any handicap that wasn't visible. Not everyone that had joint replacement walks or moves awkwardly but can have difficulty twisting in a confined space.  Legally blind not visible but makes navigating obstacles difficult.
> 
> #2. You are right I don't know the configuration of San Diego busses. From what you describe there are no steps to get in but after you get in there are steps to access seating. Interesting that you describe yourself as large & capable of putting a smaller man in the hospital, but don't have the strength to drag a cart up 3 steps.


What a hoot !  Your post gives me a chuckle.     People absolutely determined to make that jerk the victim and me as the aggressor. Not one person has considered the possibility that the jerk was on drugs, or that he wanted to intimidate someone who he thought he could push around. Or both for that matter.
Many people must lead very sheltered lives to have little or no knowledge of what life can be like on the streets of a city where thugs often prey on the elderly. 
Two last things to think about. You were not there. I was.
No matter what anyone says, I'll always defend myself.


----------



## carouselsilver (Sep 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Clearly, you don't know what it is like on our city buses, here at the Mexican border.  More often than not, people are partially or even completely blocking the aisle. It is quite normal. So, do you now suggest that they are all passive aggressive thugs ? Or is only me ?


City buses are alike everywhere. I was riding a bus in a large city in PA, when I lost my balance, and to my everlasting humiliation, landed in some guys lap. His reaction? He shoved me off so hard that I hit the floor.  He seemed to think that I had been overcome by passion and had tried to initiate an unwanted romantic moment.  

I have also seen able bodied people fill up the front seats of the bus, knowing that they are to be surrendered if a disabled person boards the bus. Do they surrender the seat? No. Time and again the bus driver has to order them out of the way when a wheelchair bound person boards the bus. Things can be tough all over.


----------



## carouselsilver (Sep 19, 2021)

oldman said:


> A few years back, I walked into an auto parts store looking for a new PCV valve for my Envoy. I stand 6’4” and weigh in at about 210# right now, so I am no little man. As I walked up the aisle to look for my part, another guy about 5’10” and wearing a t-shirt with a denim vest stood in my way andI asked him to move twice. Finally, I asked him if he was deaf. He turned his back to me and on the back of his vest were the words, “Hell’s Angels.” I became rigid for a moment, but finally awoke and told him to have a nice day and then left the store.


Good move!
​


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

carouselsilver said:


> City buses are alike everywhere. I was riding a bus in a large city in PA, when I lost my balance, and to my everlasting humiliation, landed in some guys lap. His reaction? *He shoved me off so hard that I hit the floor.*  He seemed to think that I had been overcome by passion and had tried to initiate an unwanted romantic moment.
> 
> I have also seen able bodied people fill up the front seats of the bus, knowing that they are to be surrendered if a disabled person boards the bus. Do they surrender the seat? No. Time and again the bus driver has to order them out of the way when a wheelchair bound person boards the bus. Things can be tough all over.


Yep !  Jerks abound.  One thing that drives me crazy is when some guy sits in a seat and "man-spreads" so that no-one can sit next to him.


----------



## win231 (Sep 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yep !  Jerks abound.  One thing that drives me crazy is when some guy sits in a seat and "man-spreads" so that no-one can sit next to him.


Social Distancing?


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> Social Distancing?


Nope !  That has been going on LONG, LONG before Covid


----------



## carouselsilver (Sep 19, 2021)

Still, I don't think it is a good idea to confront anyone on a moving bus. My brother, who lives in Newark, witnessed a brutal assault on a crowded commuter bus which was going from the airport to the bus terminal. One man was quarreling with another man, who was accompanied by a woman and a little girl. They all boarded the bus, continuing the quarrel. Then the first man decided to start punching the other guy, and a fight broke out. An elderly woman at the front of the bus was injured as well as several other passengers. 

It's just better to avoid confrontations as it is impossible to predict just how they will end!


----------



## win231 (Sep 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Nope !  That has been going on LONG, LONG before Covid


What have you done about it?  I hope you aren't letting them get away with it.


----------



## Knight (Sep 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> What a hoot !  Your post gives me a chuckle.     People absolutely determined to make that jerk the victim and me as the aggressor. Not one person has considered the possibility that the jerk was on drugs, or that he wanted to intimidate someone who he thought he could push around. Or both for that matter.
> Many people must lead very sheltered lives to have little or no knowledge of what life can be like on the streets of a city where thugs often prey on the elderly.
> Two last things to think about. You were not there. I was.
> No matter what anyone says, I'll always defend myself.


Absolutely right I was not there to witness what took place. All I have to go on is you had a cart in the aisle of the bus you were riding & another passenger wanted you to move it so he could get by. Must be that you refused to move your "little" basket since you claim he grabbed it. 

A civil person would have moved it thereby avoiding any conflict. But you claim you outsized him so you could easily put him in the hospital.  Not all aggression is physical verbal aggression is real. Sounds to me like you wanted to force some kind of reaction which IMO makes you the aggressor. 

Maybe you are right you are the victim.  Defending yourself against a smaller man that asked you to move your "little" basket was not reasonable


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

Knight said:


> Absolutely right I was not there to witness what took place. All I have to go on is you had a cart in the aisle of the bus you were riding & another passenger wanted you to move it so he could get by. Must be that you refused to move your "little" basket since you claim he grabbed it.
> 
> A civil person would have moved it thereby avoiding any conflict. But you claim you outsized him so you could easily put him in the hospital.  Not all aggression is physical verbal aggression is real. Sounds to me like you wanted to force some kind of reaction which IMO makes you the aggressor.
> 
> Maybe you are right you are the victim.  Defending yourself against a smaller man that asked you to move your "little" basket was not reasonable


I repeat, there was PLENTY of room for him to pass by me.  I don't know how many times I have to say that before people get the idea.  The trouble did not start until he shouted at me AND grabbed my cart.
Moreover, he may have been a head shorter than me BUT HE WAS ALSO 50 YEARS YOUNGER THAN ME. NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT HE HAD THE ADVANTAGE.


----------



## Knight (Sep 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I repeat, there was PLENTY of room for him to pass by me.  I don't know how many times I have to say that before people get the idea.  The trouble did not start until he shouted at me AND grabbed my cart.
> Moreover, he may have been a head shorter than me BUT HE WAS ALSO 50 YEARS YOUNGER THAN ME. NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT HE HAD THE ADVANTAGE.


You can repeat but it still comes down to your cart was in the aisle. That & his side of the encounter isn't posted.  What advantage? According to you you had the physical advantage. 
*The first goal* of root cause analysis is to discover the root cause of a problem or event. 
Cart in the aisle

*The second goal* is to fully understand how to fix, compensate, or learn from any underlying issues within the root cause. 

Fixing= 
1.Lift the "little" cart up the 3 steps & sit in the back seats when possible 
2.Move cart to where it doesn't obstruct others easy way of walking to their seat


*The third goal* is to apply what we learn from this analysis to systematically prevent future issues. 
That will take understanding that the root cause was identified in the first goal.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

Knight said:


> You can repeat but it still comes down to your cart was in the aisle. That & his side of the encounter isn't posted.  What advantage? According to you you had the physical advantage.
> *The first goal* of root cause analysis is to discover the root cause of a problem or event.
> Cart in the aisle
> 
> ...


Nearly 30% of bus riders around here have carts that PARTIALLY block the aisle. Nothing new there !!!!! Get it ????
There is NO PLACE ON THE BUS WHERE A CART DOES NOT PARTIALLY BLOCK THE AISLE OR AN EXIT.

What would satisfy you ? For me to go and see if I can locate him so he can post his side of the story ??? You bloody well know that is impossible.

He was 50 years younger than me. I call that a MAJOR advantage.

You and several others act like you never had a run-in with a young thug. Where I live, they abound. 

You keep putting LITTLE cart in quotes. What are you trying to imply ?

Those may be YOUR goals, BUT they are not mine. I have entirely different goals. I'd be happy if young thugs would treat me with respect. When they don't, I get angry. Might I die someday in defense of my honor ? Sure. Guess what. I don't care !!!!


----------



## Shero (Sep 19, 2021)

More evidence from the court:
view of inside of bus in San Diego. 
cramped space, not much room for shopping trolleys
there are two little steps at back of bus.
I am 5'4" and weigh 55 kilos
I can carry my shopping trolley up those steps.
No worries, as my new Aussie mates say!!


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

Shero said:


> More evidence from the court:
> view of inside of bus in San Diego.
> cramped space, not much room for shopping trolleys
> there are two little steps at back of bus.
> ...


The video is of an "extended" bus. The kind that literally bend in the middle.  Those buses are on certain routes ONLY. Not the kind of bus that I was on.
PS: I estimate that my cart, when full of canned goods, sodas, etc etc. weighs aprox 90 lbs or 42 kilos. Lets see you lift that up those narrow steps.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 19, 2021)

Swanky bus. Looks pretty roomy to me.
Supports the claim that the cart was not too much of a problem.

I don't travel with a shopping cart but I do occasionally take a wheelie walker on the train. Sometimes the train is quite crowded but no-one seems to mind the space that the walker takes up. I try to avoid inconveniencing other commuters and apologise proactively if I think they might feel irritated about it. Never had a confrontation but as a white haired old woman standing just over 5 foot tall I wouldn't expect one unless the other person was a bit deranged. Always a possibility on public transport.


----------



## Shero (Sep 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> The video is of an "extended" bus. The kind that literally bend in the middle.  Those buses are on certain routes ONLY. Not the kind of bus that I was on.
> PS: I estimate that my cart, when full of canned goods, sodas, etc etc. weighs aprox 90 lbs or 42 kilos. Lets see you lift that up those narrow steps.


Non-sense, you cannot fool me. Spent a week in SanDiego and used the buses.

 thought you had me on "ignore"


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Swanky bus. Looks pretty roomy to me.
> Supports the claim that the cart was not too much of a problem.
> 
> I don't travel with a shopping cart but I do occasionally take a wheelie walker on the train. Sometimes the train is quite crowded but no-one seems to mind the space that the walker takes up. I try to avoid inconveniencing other commuters and apologise proactively if I think they might feel irritated about it. Never had a confrontation but as a white haired old woman standing just over 5 foot tall *I wouldn't expect one unless the other person was a bit deranged. Always a possibility on public transport.*


Yes, indeed. I can't speak about your area but in California, nut cases abound.
PS: that video is of an entirely different kind of bus than the one I was on. (see my post above)


----------



## jujube (Sep 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> The video is of an "extended" bus. The kind that literally bend in the middle.  Those buses are on certain routes ONLY. Not the kind of bus that I was on.
> PS: I estimate that my cart, when full of canned goods, sodas, etc etc. weighs aprox 90 lbs or 42 kilos. Lets see you lift that up those narrow steps.


You estimate that your "little basket" (your words) weighed 90 pounds.  90 pounds? How in the world did you get that up the steps onto the bus in the first place?  If you managed to get a 90 pound basket ONTO the bus, you couldn't get it up a couple of more steps?  A big tough dude like you?  I'm surprised that the "thug" didn't fall down in a frightened faint when he saw what you were capable of lifting.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

jujube said:


> You estimate that your "little basket" (your words) weighed 90 pounds.  90 pounds? How in the world did you get that up the steps onto the bus in the first place?  If you managed to get a 90 pound basket ONTO the bus, you couldn't get it up a couple of more steps?  A big tough dude like you?  I'm surprised that the "thug" didn't fall down in a frightened faint when he saw what you were capable of lifting.


The buses here are "kneeling buses". In other words , the right front of the bus literally lowers itself when the driver hits a switch, And they have ramps which fold out so the handicapped, elderly and people with heavy loads may simply roll their carts up a very slight incline.

I'm kinda curious about how long some people are going to harass me on this subject ????
Perhaps only a public crucifixion would satisfy some folks ????


----------



## jujube (Sep 19, 2021)

You can only be harrassed as long as you put up with it.  You can't seem to stay away from it, so you must be enjoying it. 

If you feel harrassed, you can complain to a Moderator and ask that the thread be locked to any further posts.  Or you can just stop responding to it and it will die a natural death.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

jujube said:


> You can only be harrassed as long as you put up with it.  You can't seem to stay away from it, so you must be enjoying it.
> 
> If you feel harrassed, you can complain to a Moderator and ask that the thread be locked to any further posts.  Or you can just stop responding to it and it will die a natural death.


I once complained about someone who was extremely vile. Nothing what-so-ever happened.
Apparently, a person can be banned, for mentioning the name of a president but not for saying truly nasty, nasty things about someone else.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

jujube said:


> You can only be harrassed as long as you put up with it.  You can't seem to stay away from it, so you must be enjoying it.
> 
> If you feel harrassed, you can complain to a Moderator and ask that the thread be locked to any further posts.  Or you can just stop responding to it and it will die a natural death.


Well, I keep hoping that those who are against me will see reason. Perhaps I'm just naïve. 
As far as not responding is concerned, let me ask you this. Would you simply walk away if people were outside your house and they were shouting nasty things about you OR would you try to get them to stop ?


----------



## jujube (Sep 19, 2021)

Why would anybody be outside my house shouting nasty things about _me_?  My car is in the driveway, it's not blocking the sidewalk.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 19, 2021)

jujube said:


> Why would anybody be outside my house shouting nasty things about _me_?  My car is in the driveway, it's not blocking the sidewalk.


Good question. Likewise I have no idea why people say nasty things at about me. My cart was not blocking anyone. AND certainly not the ones who say nasty things about me. Maybe some people hate, just for hates sake.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 19, 2021)

Something to think about - the behavioural technique that works in most situations with most people is praise and ignore.

Something else to think about - not everyone you encounter on the interwebs will think well of you. And vice versa. Why let this reality cause you grief? To shrug your shoulders and move on is not weakness IMO.


----------



## Shero (Sep 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Good question. Likewise I have no idea why people say nasty things at about me. My cart was not blocking anyone. AND certainly not the ones who say nasty things about me. Maybe some people hate, just for hates sake.



Le chef says: “_Maybe some people hate, just for hates sake_.”

Très vrai! If the toque fits, then wear it - now you understand?


----------



## Leonie (Sep 19, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I'm kinda curious about how long some people are going to harass me on this subject ????


Me too.


----------



## Shero (Sep 20, 2021)

La Fin !!!
.


----------



## Remy (Sep 20, 2021)

Wow this post went down a rabbit hole.

Fact is no one was there except the OP. People post about personal experiences all the time here. It's invalidating to say since we only see an account of their side that it doesn't matter. 

I'm not confrontational so I would not have engaged any more than I did with that individual in the thrift shop.


----------



## Remy (Sep 20, 2021)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="



" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This scene is hard for me to watch because I went through the exact same thing. The bus driver had to get up and force someone to allow them to let me sit.


----------



## Judycat (Sep 20, 2021)

Every time you answer a post you will receive a rebuttal which prompts a rebuttal and on and on it goes. If someone yelled at me like that he'd have gotten a can of cat food between the eyes, followed by a profuse apology. I'm an old lady, I don't know what came over me...but please, don't let me interrupt...


----------



## Knight (Sep 20, 2021)

Judycat said:


> Every time you answer a post you will receive a rebuttal which prompts a rebuttal and on and on it goes. If someone yelled at me like that he'd have gotten a can of cat food between the eyes, followed by a profuse apology. I'm an old lady, I don't know what came over me...but please, don't let me interrupt...


How do you know the man yelled?  He could have asked for the cart to be moved in a calm way. Is it possible because of his size & the smaller size of the man  a firm NO was the reply? We don't know. 

I know myself & how I would be in the same scenario.  I'm an old guy & civil & would have moved the cart as anyone needed to get past.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 20, 2021)

Knight said:


> *How do you know the man yelled? * He could have asked for the cart to be moved in a calm way. Is it possible because of his size & the smaller size of the man  a firm NO was the reply? We don't know.


Because I said he yelled.
Hey, let's not go half way. Instead of imagining that I said "NO!", why not imagine I said F*** Y**
And while we're at it, let's imagine the man was retarded, and had one arm in a cast ?


----------



## Pepper (Sep 20, 2021)

Is this him?


----------



## Pepper (Sep 20, 2021)

Or this (these) guy(guys)


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## senior chef (Sep 20, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Is this him?
> View attachment 184838


Not quite. This is a bit closer.


----------



## Pepper (Sep 20, 2021)

OMG!  I recognize that guy!  He's the Mummy!


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## senior chef (Sep 20, 2021)

Pepper said:


> OMG!  I recognize that guy!  He's the Mummy!


Yeah, I have a bias against mummies. Makes me want to trip them so thay fall down.


----------



## Shalimar (Sep 20, 2021)

you don’t like mothers?


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## Knight (Sep 20, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Because I said he yelled.
> Hey, let's not go half way. Instead of imagining that I said "NO!", why not imagine I said F*** Y**
> And while we're at it, let's imagine the man was retarded, and had one arm in a cast ?


There is a difference between imagine & the word I used which was possible.
Given the response to various posts & this latest one of mine I'm finding it very possible you actually said as you posted trying for sarcasm
Quote
" I said F*** Y**"

Imagining a retarded man with one arm in a cast grabbing your little  cart full of 90lb. of  groceries is a stretch.

I don't think you are credible since you describe your cart as little & then claim you have 90lbs. in it.  Even more unlikely is for anyone to get on a bus & immediately begin yelling. IMO like road rage something happens to cause a request to move your cart to escalate to yelling.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 20, 2021)




----------



## terry123 (Sep 20, 2021)

HarryHawk said:


> *Dalton:*
> I want you to be nice until it's time to not be nice.


Forgot about that one and its a good one!


----------



## terry123 (Sep 20, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Nope !  That has been going on LONG, LONG before Covid


Yes it has and still does!


----------



## terry123 (Sep 20, 2021)

Leonie said:


> Me too. View attachment 184702


I think you were right!


----------



## Shero (Sep 21, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Is this him?
> View attachment 184838


Non, it is him


----------



## Pepper (Sep 21, 2021)

Why do you always throw in one or two French words into your conversations?  It must be deliberate, as surely you know the English versions.  Not necessary.  I believe you.  You say you're French, then you're French.  No need to remind your audience.  Just curious.


----------



## Shero (Sep 21, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Why do you always throw in one or two French words into your conversations?  It must be deliberate, as surely you know the English versions.  Not necessary.  I believe you.  You say you're French, then you're French.  No need to remind your audience.  Just curious.




Aloha kakahiaka, and you will have to remain curious, since I do not have to explain anything to you as it is not important to me what you believe about me


----------



## Knight (Sep 21, 2021)

senior chef said:


> View attachment 184885


Nice "little" cart. Shouldn't take up more that 3/4 of a bus aisle.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 21, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Why do you always throw in one or two French words into your conversations?  It must be deliberate, as surely you know the English versions.  Not necessary.  I believe you.  You say you're French, then you're French.  No need to remind your audience.  Just curious.


Who is that ? Oh, wait. I think I know who you mean. On my ignore list.


----------



## win231 (Sep 21, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Who is that ? Oh, wait. I think I know who you mean. On my ignore list.


Aw, c'mon.  Don't ignore him.  Think of the fun you'll miss.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 21, 2021)

win231 said:


> Aw, c'mon.  Don't ignore him.  Think of the fun you'll miss.


Him ? We must be thinking of 2 different people.


----------



## carouselsilver (Sep 21, 2021)

Shero said:


> Aloha kakahiaka, and you will have to remain curious, since I do not have to explain anything to you as it is not important to me what you believe about me


I like the French words!


----------



## Buckeye (Sep 21, 2021)

My high school football coach would say "excuse my french" when he would slip and use a cuss word at practice


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## Shero (Sep 21, 2021)

carouselsilver said:


> I like the French words!



Merci pour le compliment


----------



## carouselsilver (Sep 21, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> My high school football coach would say "excuse my french" when he would slip and use a cuss word at practice


Well, not those type of French words, lol.


----------



## Shero (Sep 21, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> My high school football coach would say "excuse my french" when he would slip and use a cuss word at practice


Oui, swear words sound so much nicer in French


----------



## carouselsilver (Sep 21, 2021)

Shero said:


> Merci pour le compliment


De rien!


----------



## Shero (Sep 21, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Who is that ? Oh, wait. I think I know who you mean. On my ignore list.


I am back on your ignore list?    How many times a day do you have a peek at my comments, do not tell me, je sais


----------



## Aneeda72 (Sep 21, 2021)

Hmm, I have read this entire thread before I logged in.  Seems everyone who has responded, has had a “run-in“ with a jerk.  I’ll let others decide who I think the jerk is.  

I am extremely impressed by @feywon responses.  

As a rape survivor, I am greatly by what the OP has said and comparisons he has made.  I was kidnapped and raped at seven, it was 1953.  Locked in the dark, in a rabbit slaughtering shed for several hours, alone, cold, sitting with my legs drawn up against my chest, my arms wrapped around legs, my back against a wooden rabbit crate.  Naked.

On a dirt floor covered in rabbit gunk, skins hanging from the ceiling.  Rabbits in cages waiting to be slaughtered.  And me, sitting on that filthy floor, leaning on a crate, for hours.  Most children do not survive.  My father found me.

*I was a SURVIVOR-not a victim.*

@senior chef -this thread should be locked, you should be banned


----------



## senior chef (Sep 21, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Hmm, I have read this entire thread before I logged in.  Seems everyone who has responded, has had a “run-in“ with a jerk.  I’ll let others decide who I think the jerk is.
> 
> I am extremely impressed by @feywon responses.
> 
> ...


I am very sorry to hear of your experiences.  As I attempted to say, perhaps poorly, is that people, both men and women, often carry the emotional trauma of childhood abuse and victimization as an adult, for many years. I did not mean  to suggest that a rape victim and the victimization of men are the same thing. All I meant is that, men who lay down to a bully carry a shame that never goes away. 

I too am a survivor of childhood abuse.  I did learn a very valuable lesson, however. Bullies/abusers  must be stood up to, every single time. You, as a child, could not protect yourself, and I sympathize. 

So very sorry to hear that you took my words the wrong way. Please consider the possibility that not everyone has a gift of using the best words when describing an event.


----------



## win231 (Sep 21, 2021)

Shero said:


> I am back on your ignore list?    How many times a day do you have a peek at my comments, do not tell me, je sais


See?  I told ya he's fun to play with.


----------



## Shero (Sep 21, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Hmm, I have read this entire thread before I logged in.  Seems everyone who has responded, has had a “run-in“ with a jerk.  I’ll let others decide who I think the jerk is.
> 
> I am extremely impressed by @feywon responses.
> 
> ...


I want to hug you Aneeda, that is all I can say 
Mais non, I do not think le chef should be banned because I believe this could be a learning curve for him, if he wants to learn of course.


----------



## hollydolly (Sep 25, 2021)

I've just trawled through a whole 10 pages of this...   only because it was brought to my attention by another member .

I'm going to refrain from commenting about the topic, and believe me there was one point around page 5 where I could have got myself banned for replying to a vile comment made by the OP>.. . I was so angry., but his ignorance is his burden to bear forever... and I am putting him on ignore.. _again_..... however I'm only posting NOW...because the word R * pe... has been used_ again ..._( horrible for anyone to have  have  suffered any kind of se*ual abuse)_  .._. but admin @Matrix has repeatedly warned us that google will take this forum from us, if these words are used repeatedly.. so please,  let's not use these se*ual words, use asterisks where possible.. and certainly do not let  the actions of a Jerk...be the cause of a well run forum with all of our long time  friendships  being lost to us after all our years together..


reminder from Matrix....
_*A message to all members: *

Please avoid using *any* sex related words, even you think it's family friendly. Google will warn me via Email, and I would have to delete the discussions, I have been warned like 50 times. If I can't use Google ads, I can't afford to run this forum._


----------



## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I've just trawled through a whole 10 pages of this...   only because it was brought to my attention by another member .
> 
> I'm going to refrain from commenting about the topic, and believe me there was one point around page 5 where I could have got myself banned for replying to a vile comment made by the OP>.. . I was so angry., but his ignorance is his burden to bear forever... and I am putting him on ignore.. _again_..... however I'm only posting NOW...because the word R * pe... has been used_ again ..._( horrible for anyone to have  have  suffered any kind of se*ual abuse)_  .._. but admin @Matrix has repeatedly warned us that google will take this forum from us, if these words are used repeatedly.. so please,  let's not use these se*ual words, use asterisks where possible.. and certainly do not let  the actions of a Jerk...be the cause of a well run forum with all of our long time  friendships  being lost to us after all our years together..
> 
> ...


Ha Ha. I can imagine who that other member was. Just another angry feminist who hasn't the vaguest idea of what a man feels. Odd thing about angry feminists, they seem to think that they, and they alone have feelings. How dare a man suggest that he has deep feelings !!!!

I've got a news flash for you, and that other member, I don't care what either of you think.
Have a nice angry day. Enjoy it ! Wallow in it ! 
Now that I think about it, be angry for weeks and weeks. Let your issues with men consume you.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 25, 2021)

@senior chef: In your mind women are "angry feminists" because they bristled when you equated the violence and violation of r*pe with a request to to move your rolling shipping cart out of a bus aisle?  Seems you've got a lot to learn about women.  Some lessons in bus etiquette wouldn't hurt either.     

Note that some enlightened SF men also chimed in that your analogy was inappropriate.

p.s.  I have no issues with men in general, indeed I quite like most of them.  There are some specific people I don't much like based on their character, attitudes and behavior though.  
It has nothing to do with their genders.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

StarSong said:


> @senior chef: In your mind women are "angry feminists" because they bristled when you equated the violence and violation of r*pe with a request to to move your rolling shipping cart out of a bus aisle?  Seems you've got a lot to learn about women.  Some lessons in bus etiquette wouldn't hurt either.
> 
> Note that some enlightened SF men also chimed in that your analogy was inappropriate.
> 
> p.s.  I have no issues with men in general, indeed I quite like most of them.  There are some specific people I don't much like based on their character, attitudes and behavior though.  It has nothing to do with their genders.


You have completely missed to point. I did NOT equate r*** with moving my cart. Read my post on that VERY, VERY carefully.  Take a deep breath, relax and read it again. (read my posts # 48 and 77)

The analogy I made was the AFTER EFFECTS ie the emotional baggage, that is carried when a man tucks tail, bends over, to another man.

Now, about angry feminists. Angry feminists are those women who have issues with men. They make a life of it. Without their anger, they would be nothing but empty shells.


----------



## carouselsilver (Sep 25, 2021)

What about happy feminists? 

Seriously, if a woman states an opinion or reacts to something, it does not confer the label of feminist upon her. She is merely responding to the topic on hand. The definition of feminist is "_a person who believes in bringing about the equality of the sexes (of women and men) in all aspects of public and private life." _So, in the course of conversation, could it be possible that a woman is merely a woman responding to a topic, and not necessarily waving a flag of feminism?


----------



## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

carouselsilver said:


> What about happy feminists?
> 
> Seriously, if a woman states an opinion or reacts to something, it does not confer the label of feminist upon her. She is merely responding to the topic on hand. The definition of feminist is "_a person who believes in bringing about the equality of the sexes (of women and men) in all aspects of public and private life." _So, in the course of conversation, could it be possible that a woman is merely a woman responding to a topic, and not necessarily waving a flag of feminism?


Happy feminists ? Never met one.  In order to be a feminist, a woman MUST have a certain degree of anger at men. Some feminists have MUCH, MUCH more anger than others. 
Generally speaking, she blames men for her lot in life. 
She truly believes that if men would just get out of her way, her life would be infinitely better.


----------



## carouselsilver (Sep 25, 2021)

It sounds like you have had issues with woman who speak their minds. I am curious; how would you describe a woman who is _not_ a feminist?


----------



## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

carouselsilver said:


> It sounds like you have had issues with woman who speak their minds. I am curious; how would you describe a woman who is _not_ a feminist?


If I had to use one word, it would be … friendly.


----------



## carouselsilver (Sep 25, 2021)

senior chef said:


> If I had to use one word, it would be … friendly.


Okay, that's encouraging! Now, what if the woman started out friendly, but then happened to disagree with your viewpoint on something? Would that make her a man hating feminist?


----------



## StarSong (Sep 25, 2021)

@senior chef, if you honestly believe the aftereffects of being r@ped are equivalent to the emotional baggage from moving a roller cart when asked - even if asked aggressively, then you've got bigger issues than this forum can address.  

Definition of Feminism: https://www.britannica.com/topic/feminism
*"feminism*_,  *the belief in social, economic, and political equality of the sexes*. Although largely originating in the West, feminism is manifested worldwide and is represented by various institutions committed to activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests.

Throughout most of Western history, women were confined to the domestic sphere, while public life was reserved for men. In medieval Europe, women were denied the right to own property, to study, or to participate in public life. At the end of the 19th century in France, they were still compelled to cover their heads in public, and, in parts of Germany, a husband still had the right to sell his wife. Even as late as the early 20th century, women could neither vote nor hold elective office in Europe and in most of the United States (where several territories and states granted women’s suffrage long before the federal government did so). Women were prevented from conducting business without a male representative, be it father, brother, husband, legal agent, or even son. Married women could not exercise control over their own children without the permission of their husbands. Moreover, women had little or no access to education and were barred from most professions. In some parts of the world, such restrictions on women continue today."  _

Are some feminists angry? Of course. But then, that's true of almost everyone who's had someone's knee on their necks as a way of keeping them powerless and reminding them of their "place."


----------



## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

carouselsilver said:


> Okay, that's encouraging! Now, what if the woman started out friendly, but then happened to disagree with your viewpoint on something? Would that make her a man hating feminist?


No of course not. My goodness, why would you think that?  
We both know very well exactly what a man hating feminist is. And it has nothing to do with her opinion of a wide range of ideas. 

Take art, for example. I have a friend here on SF and her opinion about art and mine differ widely. She remains my friend and I respect her opinion. 
If , however, she started calling me nasty names, we would not remain friends much longer.

Note: now that people have read my #48 and 77 posts, and they can see very clearly that I was not comparing r*** with moving my cart, lets just see if any of them apologize for their nasty posts.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

StarSong said:


> @senior chef: In your mind women are "angry feminists" because they bristled *when you equated the violence and violation of r*pe with a request to to move your rolling shipping cart out of a bus aisle?*  Seems you've got a lot to learn about women.  Some lessons in bus etiquette wouldn't hurt either.


*How many times must I repeat myself ????? I did NOT equate r*** with moving my cart. I equated the after effects of trauma.* 
Of course if you believe that men can not have deep feelings then that's an entirely different issue.

If you still think so, then by all means, find where I said that and show us. (see my posts #48 and 77)


----------



## StarSong (Sep 25, 2021)

senior chef said:


> You are forgetting something VERY important.   If I allowed anyone to push me around, I'd have to live with the fact that I am a victim. I refuse to be a victim. The emotional impact of victimhood is a heavy burden to carry.
> If I could use an analogy ? A woman who is r*ped, has become a victim of her attacker. She may, or may not have suffered physical trauma BUT the knowledge that she was victimized is a heavy emotional burden to carry. In other words the emotional trauma is often far, far worse than the actual physical trauma.





senior chef said:


> Not making any such comparison at all. The comparison is about the emotional issues if I just knuckled  under and became a victim and the emotional trauma of a rape victim. For a man, to bend over and take abuse from another man is tantamount to being xxx.


These are your posts #48 and #77.  

You were referring here to the terrible emotional trauma you'd have experienced if you'd knuckled under by moving your rolling cart (that you acknowledged was partially blocking the bus aisle) when "aggressively" asked to move it. 

You must be some delicate flower if such a minor incident (in which you were at fault, by the way) would cause you emotional trauma. 
And they call women the weaker sex?


----------



## Pepper (Sep 25, 2021)




----------



## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

Pepper said:


>


The feminist movement is entirely about men. You doubt that ?  Remove men from the picture and the feminist movement would collapse like a popped balloon.


----------



## Pepper (Sep 25, 2021)

Anyway.................you're confusing what was said about Our Generation.  The young women of today have it (mostly) all together.  Get with it man!

Did you know..........the college population is now 60% women?  In My Day girls had to have a higher average to get into college than men Because women were only in college to look for a college educated Husband............or so it was said.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

StarSong said:


> @senior chef, if you honestly believe the aftereffects of being r@ped are equivalent to the emotional baggage from moving a roller cart when asked - even if asked aggressively, then you've got bigger issues than this forum can address.
> 
> Definition of Feminism: https://www.britannica.com/topic/feminism
> *"feminism,  the belief in social, economic, and political equality of the sexes. *_Although largely originating in the West, feminism is manifested worldwide and is represented by various institutions committed to activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests._


The belief in social equality ?  Really ?
Try selling that idea to any man who has lost custody rights, in a court of law, to a woman. Men have little or no custody rights.
OR try selling that to any man who has been forced to pay child support for a child/children that are not his biological children. 
Try selling that to the man who showed up at a breast cancer awareness march in support of the women. He was told, "This march is for women only". 
Social equality ? Ha Give me a freakin break.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

When men have an equal chance of gaining child custody, then and only then, will there be the beginnings of true equality.
I can't even begin to tell you how many close friends of mine have lost EVERYTHING in a divorce. The women almost always ended up with his house and 80% of his hard earned wealth.
Though I did know one guy who was ordered to pay an outrageous alimony. He quietly arranged to get fired from his high paying job and he took a low paying job as a school bus driver. Result ? No alimony payments what-so-ever.

One guy I saw on the news, just PRIOR to a divorce action, took a bulldozer and flattened his home into splinters.


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## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

StarSong said:


> *You were referring here to the terrible emotional trauma you'd have experienced if you'd knuckled under by moving your rolling cart (that you acknowledged was partially blocking the bus aisle) when "aggressively" asked to move it.*


It is not merely a single event. I was talking about a general life philosophy. When a man bends over for another man, it becomes a  life long habit. When that happens, he has lost any claim to manhood. Such creatures are pitiful excuses for a man. That is a burden I refuse to carry no matter my age. 

By the way, you can put quote marks on any word you choose, but that does not alter what happened. I was there. You were not.


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## win231 (Sep 25, 2021)

Hope you guys know you're giving Mr. senior chef a real good time.
He loves to fight.......safely at his keyboard.


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## StarSong (Sep 25, 2021)

senior chef said:


> The belief in social equality ?  Really ?
> Try selling that idea to any man who has lost custody rights, in a court of law, to a woman. Men have little or no custody rights.
> OR try selling that to any man who has been forced to pay child support for a child/children that are not his biological children.
> Try selling that to the man who showed up at a breast cancer awareness march in support of the women. He was told, "This march is for women only".
> Social equality ? Ha Give me a freakin break.


Puhleese.  Women have gotten the short end of the stick for thousands of years.  Might the pendulum have swung a bit too far in a couple of cases?  Perhaps. But as a gender men have dominated women at nearly every turn, including having bestowed themselves the legal right to beat their wives within an inch of our lives until just a few decades ago in this country.  It's still legal in many others.   

Do an internet search for images from breast cancer marches. Plenty of men are participating. Might someone have said that to a man once? Perhaps. But it's certainly not the prevailing attitude at those marches. There are multitudes of husbands, brothers, sons, fathers and male friends supporting women who've dealt with breast cancer battles.


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## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Puhleese.  Women have gotten the short end of the stick for thousands of years.  Might the pendulum have swung a bit too far in a couple of cases?  Perhaps. But as a gender men have dominated women at nearly every turn, including having bestowed themselves the legal right to beat their wives within an inch of our lives until just a few decades ago in this country.  It's still legal in many others.
> 
> Do an internet search for images from breast cancer marches. Plenty of men are participating. Might someone have said that to a man once? Perhaps. *But it's certainly not the prevailing attitude at those marches.* There are multitudes of husbands, brothers, sons, fathers and male friends supporting women who've dealt with breast cancer battles.


Yeah. NOW ! Not so when I lived in Portland Oregon 30 years ago.

Obviously you have not read any of my posts about the plight of women in Afghanistan. 

PS: Just curious. Is it your intention to nag me forever ?


----------



## Pepper (Sep 25, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yeah. NOW ! Not so when I lived in Portland Oregon 30 years ago.
> 
> Obviously you have not read any of my posts about the plight of women in Afghanistan.


30 years ago?  The time is NOW!
ps what do those horrifically treated women of Afghanistan have to do with a mean guy on a bus?


----------



## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

senior chef said:


> Yeah. NOW ! Not so when I lived in Portland Oregon 30 years ago.
> 
> Obviously you have not read any of my posts about the plight of women in Afghanistan.





Pepper said:


> 30 years ago?  The time is NOW!
> ps what do those horrifically treated women of Afghanistan have to do with a mean guy on a bus?


Absolutely nothing. I was responding to Starsong. She is the one who brought up the history of women through the ages.


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## Shero (Sep 25, 2021)

So we are back to the jerk thread. Maybe le chef thinks I alerted hollydolly, but how will I do that? I have never sent a private message to her or anyone else. I have replied to a few from some dear posters.

Now le chef, not all women are hard core feminists I am NOT, learn la différence !!! Like the women who post here, we do not hate men, we hate arrogant males, who have nothing to be arrogant about!!!

You were bullying a young black man and you think everyone on the bus would give you an ovation. They did NOT!!! There was much room for you to move your little shopping basket but non, you wanted to puff up your chest and say: I am better than you. You need an education and some good lessons taught and I hope some day someone teaches you them! The bus driver should have thrown you off the bus for disturbance and for telling the young man "I will put you in hospital"!!!!


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## Pepper (Sep 25, 2021)

I have decided I am accepting le chef's version of what happened to him on the bus.


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## Shero (Sep 25, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I have decided I am accepting le chef's version of what happened to him on the bus.



....which is NOTHING! It is the young black man who suffered the insult!


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## Pepper (Sep 25, 2021)

Non, non Shero, I'm supposing you don't ride City buses much.  This le crap happens all the time!  Maybe the young man could have been more patient with an old white goat.


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## senior chef (Sep 25, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I have decided I am accepting le chef's version of what happened to him on the bus.


Thank you.  Some people may not like my philosophy on protecting my honor, but I don't lie.


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## Shero (Sep 25, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Non, non Shero, I'm supposing you don't ride City buses much.  This le crap happens all the time!  Maybe the young man could have been more patient with an old white goat.


you think it is funny Pepper to mimic me? I think it is a great handicap on your part  petit enfant


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## Lee (Sep 26, 2021)

Read this whole thing and must say that I have read shorter novels. No comment other than I am sorry I made my initial comment on post 2.

Had I known it would cause good people to turn on each other I would have sat on my hands so as not to touch the keyboard.


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## Aneeda72 (Sep 26, 2021)

Lee said:


> Read this whole thing and must say that I have read shorter novels. No comment other than I am sorry I made my initial comment on post 2.
> 
> Had I known it would cause good people to turn on each other I would have sat on my hands so as not to touch the keyboard.


Oh, Lee, it was a good point that you made.  I walk outside at six every morning and yesterday was followed by a guy for the entire hour.  He tried to scare me at one point, but did not succeed.  But I was a tad worried.  I just ignored him and did my walking.

He wore a hoodie, kept his hands in his pockets, was even or ahead of me, but then, because he walks fast, came up behind me at one point and passed me.  Ugh.  See, I did not mention his race.  It’s not necessary.  Did I notice his race?   Yup.

What color was he?  Well, frankly, if he got any closer to me he was going to be blue, cause I am too old to run but I can still get my knee up high enough to make an impact.    Husband is going be surprised cause he is getting up this morning and walking with me.


----------



## Lee (Sep 26, 2021)

Aneeda, I said I would not make any more comments but I will make one more. 

This thread has turned into a tug of war with neither side willing to drop the rope. 

I am done.


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## senior chef (Sep 26, 2021)

Lee said:


> Read this whole thing and must say that I have read shorter novels. No comment other than I am sorry I made my initial comment on post 2.
> 
> Had I known it would cause good people to turn on each other I would have sat on my hands so as not to touch the keyboard.


That's ok. Don't worry about it. You had no way of knowing that hidden in our midst,  are people who take pleasure in trying to hurt others.
Every time I run across such people, I am reminded of an infamous quote by the feminist actress, Sharon Stone.

*"The more famous and powerful I get, the more power I have to hurt men"*


----------



## Aneeda72 (Sep 26, 2021)

senior chef said:


> That's ok. Don't worry about it. You had no way of knowing that hidden in our midst,  are people who take pleasure in trying to hurt others.
> Every time I run across such people, I am reminded of an infamous quote by the feminist actress, Sharon Stone.
> 
> *"The more famous and powerful I get, the more power I have to hurt men"*


My previous post was removed, but I am sure you got to read it.  

In any event, it seems when you stand up to someone you are a “man“ who doesn’t “bend over“ .  But when others refuse to”bend over” to you, those others were “hidden in our midst”.  First you are fairly new-you are not in “our midst”.  There is no our.

Secondly, mr. I never bend over, the only person who has caused ”hurt” resentful angry feelings and managed to alienate several people is you, other wise known as @senior chef, nickname mr. I never bend over.  And NO-ONE is “bending over” for you, at least no one on the forum .

Third, no one the forum “takes pleasure in trying to hurt others”, but you might be the exception as you continue on and on and on.

Lastly, for now, I am tired of your attitude and comments about woman and I can assure you the women, on this forum, DO NOT HIDE, from any men.  DO NOT BEND OVER, but stand firm against certain comments made my you.  The women, of the forum, *refuse to bend over, mr. I never bend over.*


----------



## StarSong (Sep 26, 2021)

I'm also done with this thread.  Unwatching it and will no longer play this game with the OP.  Suffice it to say that locating openly misogynistic quotes from famous, powerful men is NOT a difficult task.


----------



## Buckeye (Sep 26, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I have decided I am accepting le chef's version of what happened to him on the bus.


{shrug} I never doubted the OP's accounting of the incident. The last time I was on a city bus was about 1975, and as I recall, there were plenty of rude young folks as riders.  I was younger man then, so I wasn't a target, but now I certainly would be.


----------



## Buckeye (Sep 26, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> My previous post was removed, but I am sure you got to read it.
> 
> In any event, it seems when you stand up to someone you are a “man“ who doesn’t “bend over“ .  But when others refuse to”bend over” to you, those others were “hidden in our midst”.  First you are fairly new-you are not in “our midst”.  There is no our.
> 
> ...


Before I retired, I was in a meeting with, among others, our corporate CIO.  Our largest customer (several billion a year) had continued to ask for additional reports/data/information, all of which required time ($$$) to develop and resources ($$$) to perform.  He said "I don't mind bending over backwards for *********, but I'm getting kinda tired of bending over forward."

Sorry


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## senior chef (Sep 26, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> {shrug} I never doubted the OP's accounting of the incident. The last time I was on a city bus was about 1975, and as I recall, there were plenty of rude young folks as riders.  I was younger man then, so I wasn't a target, but now I certainly would be.


Thanks, Buckeye.  
I think that my age is precisely why that jerk gave me such a hard time. Had he actually laid hands on me, instead of grabbing my cart, he would have been in for a huge surprise. I may not be too strong anymore, but I always carry a weapon that would have ended matters quickly. In my neck of the woods, a man who can not/will not protect his honor soon becomes a victim. 
In case you missed it, that thug had more than enough room to pass by me.


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## senior chef (Sep 26, 2021)

I notice that I am still being stalked by a trouble maker. I occasionally see *"you are ignoring content by this member".*  No idea what was said, but I can well imagine it was more bitter, abusive hysteria.


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## Leonie (Sep 26, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I always carry a weapon that would have ended matters quickly.


You're in good company.


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## Shero (Sep 27, 2021)

He that lives by the knife, dies by the knife, meaning:

“if you use violent, forceful, or underhanded methods against other people, you can expect those same methods to be used against you.”


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## Aneeda72 (Sep 28, 2021)

Shero said:


> He that lives by the knife, dies by the knife, meaning:
> 
> “if you use violent, forceful, or underhanded methods against other people, you can expect those same methods to be used against you.”


Course @Shero there is a difference in responding to a man on a bus when you are surrounded by people amd under the circumstances described.  It also depends on the man.  It is very hard to kill someone with a knife unless you have been trained.  This is why stabbing victims are stabbed, well, a lot.

Now, if it had been my husband-a trained combat marine- on that bus telling mr I don’t bend over to move that cart-the cart would have been moved.  Cause mr I don’t bend over would have bent over enough to move that cart.  .  Otherwise, it would have ended poorly for him and the cart.


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## Shero (Sep 28, 2021)

To me, "carrying a weapon" means you are looking for trouble. Not admirable at all unless you livein a lawless place and I do not consider a bus in San Diego lawless!


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## win231 (Sep 28, 2021)

Shero said:


> To me, "carrying a weapon" means you are looking for trouble. Not admirable at all unless you livein a lawless place and I do not consider a bus in San Diego lawless!


Not necessarily.  For many, carrying a weapon means being _prepared _for trouble - if it finds you.
BUT, for someone with an attitude like "senior chef," it would _definitely _mean looking for trouble.


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## Nathan (Sep 28, 2021)

If you carry a weapon, you really need to exercise extreme forbearance, or you will end up on the ugly side of both criminal and civil law.
I don't carry any weapons, but if a would be assailant gets their ass kicked by a great-grandpa, then shame on them.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 28, 2021)

Nathan said:


> If you carry a weapon, you really need to exercise extreme forbearance, or you will end up on the ugly side of both criminal and civil law.
> I don't carry any weapons, but if a would be assailant gets their ass kicked by a great-grandpa, then shame on them.


Yeah, I hear you.  Good advise. I'd only use it if I was FIRST physically attacked. 
I still have some strength left but certainly not enough to go mano a mano with a young thug. Anything longer than 30 seconds and I'd be toast.

In the final analysis, I'd much rather be standing upright, talking to cops, than to be on my way to the hospital … or worse.


----------



## Nathan (Sep 29, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I still have some strength left but certainly not enough to go mano a mano with a young thug. Anything longer than 30 seconds and I'd be toast.


30 seconds is a looong time in a street fight.   Landing your best punch or kick early is...your best chance.


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## Warrigal (Sep 29, 2021)

30 seconds is long enough knee someone in the nuts, is it not?

Never had to try so I seek expert advice.


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## senior chef (Sep 29, 2021)

Nathan said:


> 30 seconds is a looong time in a street fight.   Landing your best punch or kick early is...your best chance.


I agree.


----------



## senior chef (Sep 29, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> 30 seconds is long enough knee someone in the nuts, is it not?
> 
> Never had to try so I seek expert advice.


It looks very effective... in the movies. In reality... quite rarely.


----------



## Shero (Sep 29, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> 30 seconds is long enough knee someone in the nuts, is it not?
> 
> Never had to try so I seek expert advice.



It is enough time if you are 6'3" and 195 lbs and your victim is a puny guy whose face only reaches your chest!!!!!


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 29, 2021)

Just as well I am always polite to my fellow passengers then because I'm only 5' 1".


----------



## Skyking (Jan 4, 2022)

Lee said:


> Why is it necessary for you mention that the man was black? Just curious.


Ever tell a story. It's called descriptive writing. So now tell us, why is it necessary for you to question the writer's character even though you've never met him? You know what you did.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 4, 2022)

Skyking said:


> Ever tell a story. It's called descriptive writing. So now tell us, why is it necessary for you to question the writer's character even though you've never met him? You know what you did.


You've just responded to a thread that is over 3 months old.  You know what you did.


----------



## win231 (Jan 4, 2022)

Skyking said:


> Ever tell a story. It's called descriptive writing. So now tell us, why is it necessary for you to question the writer's character even though you've never met him? You know what you did.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 5, 2022)

Lee said:


> Why is it necessary for you mention that the man was black? Just curious.


I believe mentioning the facts is a part of good story telling.  I think we sometimes read too much into fact reporting and story telling.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 5, 2022)

feywon said:


> Frankly my first thought reading the title was 'Oh, he looked in the mirror and had a moment of clarity.
> 
> In answer to Lee you said "Probably for the same reason I'd have mentioned if he had numerous facial tatoos." Since elsewhere in this thread you used forms of the word 'intimidate', i have to conclude you find both Black men and heavily facially tatooed men intimidating before they say a thing to you.  Your guard goes up and you percieve anything they say or do in worst possible light.
> 
> ...


I think taking Senior chef's word for the incident is part of supporting a fellow Senior Forum member.  How is it that it is o.k. for you to name a member judgmental but not for Chef to report the facts of the incident?  In some things. I think it is unfair for some of us to acquire a morally superior attitude especially in this case as we were not there.  I have taken that attitude in some instances much to my shame.  Why should chef move from his seat when commanded to by anyone? Let's remember, Chef is a Senior too and should not have to take bullying from anyone let alone someone who is obviously younger. I think we should take chef's word for what happened and offer support not shaming. Just my two cents.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 5, 2022)

win231 said:


> If you had responded with something like:  _"That's a good idea, thanks for letting me know,"_ that would _*not *_be knuckling under; that would be showing wisdom.   And your loved ones would not be in mourning.


We were not there and if Senior Chef felt that he took the right action, then it would be supportive of a fellow member to accept this.  If Chef wants to confront a bully, that is his decision,  Sometimes we just have a couple of moments to assess a situation before acting.
I agree that we should always behave in a cautious manner, but we also have the right to protecting our dignity when others like to trample upon it.  Some of us will pay the price but I think that is understood.  Yes, sometimes some of us feel it is worth the risk of becoming a victim if we stand up for ourselves.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 5, 2022)

jujube said:


> "Discretion is the better part of valor".
> 
> You seem to have  a bit of a chip on your shoulder.  In today's violent society, you may be in the right but this could lead to your being "dead" right.


I think it was *not* Chef who had the chip on his shoulder.  Being commanded to move from his seat was not having a chip it was standing one's ground in order not to give in to a bully.  We were not there so to criticize someone, let alone a senior and a member of this forum for standing up for himself is not only very unkind, in my opinion, it is not our business how he chose to handle it.


----------



## win231 (Jan 5, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> We were not there and if Senior Chef felt that he took the right action, then it would be supportive of a fellow member to accept this.  If Chef wants to confront a bully, that is his decision,  Sometimes we just have a couple of moments to assess a situation before acting.
> I agree that we should always behave in a cautious manner, but we also have the right to protecting our dignity when others like to trample upon it.  Some of us will pay the price but I think that is understood.  Yes, sometimes some of us feel it is worth the risk of becoming a victim if we stand up for ourselves.


_ "It would be supportive of a fellow member to accept this."  _
Really?  That one takes the cake and first prize.  Everyone should support fellow members whether we agree with them or not.
The bully is the one who starts a fight by being passive aggressive by blocking an aisle with his cart.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 5, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Yesterday, while riding on a public bus on my way back from the supermarket, I had a near violent confrontation with a jerk.
> I had my small wheeled hand cart with me and it was filled with groceries. The hand cart was PARTIALLY in the aisle but there was plenty of room for people to move passed. A 20 something black man got on and he wanted to go to the back of the bus. He could easily have edged passed but he demanded that I move the basket to near the exit. I told him, "Just walk passed" he shouted at me and he grabbed my little basket. I held on to my basket. He moved up into my face still shouting. I said "leave me alone, WALK PASSED." He pressed the issue and looked like he was getting ready to be violent.
> I stood up and said, as I TOWERED over him, "You want to hit me ? Go ahead. I'll put you in the hospital."
> 
> If that passenger had been handicapped or loaded down with packages, I'd have moved my little wheeled basket to the exit area. BUT, not for a jerk.


I don't care if this thread is old, I support you Chef in your actions.  Too many times seniors have had to bow to bullying.  When you stand up to it, you stand for me and other seniors.  Thank you for your story.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 5, 2022)

win231 said:


> _ "It would be supportive of a fellow member to accept this."  _
> Really?  That one takes the cake and first prize.  Everyone should support fellow members whether we agree with them or not.
> The bully is the one who starts a fight by being passive aggressive by blocking an aisle with his cart.


No, I did not say that.  The fact that a senior and a member of this forum stood up for himself should be enough not to criticize him, in my opinion. If you want to disagree fine.  I see it as he stood up for me as a senior as well as himself.  If there are occasions that we should not support a fellow member, this is not one of them in my opinion. You have your opinion and I have mine.  I love a man or woman that will stand up to a bully.  It may not always be smart or wise, but I respect it.  He assessed the situation and took the action he felt compelled to take.  I support that. I was not there to criticize what he decided to do.


----------



## IFortuna (Jan 5, 2022)

win231 said:


> _ "It would be supportive of a fellow member to accept this."  _
> Really?  That one takes the cake and first prize.  Everyone should support fellow members whether we agree with them or not.
> The bully is the one who starts a fight by being passive aggressive by blocking an aisle with his cart.


I hardly call Chef's actions passive aggressive. As he stated, it is common for people to board the bus with carts. Are all of them passive aggressive. Maybe it would be appropriate to read the rest of Chef's remarks.  Easy for you or any of us to armchair quarterback.  We were not there! And, I think in this instance we should take Chef's word for how things when down, don't you?  If not, what kind of man are you?  How far are you willing to let yourself be pushed?  I love my life but here are times one should love ideals and stand up for them.  Our puny lives generally are just that unless we take a stand, in my humble opinion. I hope you get me win231.


----------



## win231 (Jan 5, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> No, I did not say that.  The fact that a senior and a member of this forum stood up for himself should be enough not to criticize him, in my opinion. If you want to disagree fine.  I see it as he stood up for me as a senior as well as himself.  If there are occasions that we should not support a fellow member, this is not one of them in my opinion. You have your opinion and I have mine.  I love a man or woman that will stand up to a bully.  It may not always be smart or wise, but I respect it.  He assessed the situation and took the action he felt compelled to take.  I support that. I was not there to criticize what he decided to do.


Intelligent people know the difference between "Standing up to a bully" and "Escalating a conflict that you started."


----------



## feywon (Jan 5, 2022)

What neither @IFortuna  or @Skyking bothered to consider is they were not here from the beginning of either this thread or for the brief duration of Senor Chef's time with us. (He took issue with some rules, butting heads with Admin, and either chose not to continue membership or was asked to leave.)   But before this post he had shown us who he was and we had  good reasons to be suspicious of his veracity. 

I'm not going to go into detail since he's no longer here to speak for himself.  I will say age does not confer wisdom or any other virtue, nor does it make a person  either a victim or a hero especially when when they refuse to consider/respect any POV other than their own on any topic.  I have little doubt that had he been the passenger standing, trying to get by on a moving vehicle he could have spun just as passionate presentation of the seated person with cart being a 'jerk'.  But he could/would not see the possibility the other person was as tired and.could view his behavior equally annoying.

As for supporting fellow members, where is the line to be drawn? Unconditional support of someone just because we have a single descriptor in common, our age, is as irrational as attacking someone because they belong to different demographic. My bottomline is behavior.

 And heck, i still worry about that puppy he adopted.


----------



## win231 (Jan 5, 2022)

IFortuna said:


> I hardly call Chef's actions passive aggressive. As he stated, it is common for people to board the bus with carts. Are all of them passive aggressive. Maybe it would be appropriate to read the rest of Chef's remarks.  Easy for you or any of us to armchair quarterback.  We were not there! And, I think in this instance we should take Chef's word for how things when down, don't you?  If not, what kind of man are you?  How far are you willing to let yourself be pushed?  I love my life but here are times one should love ideals and stand up for them.  Our puny lives generally are just that unless we take a stand, in my humble opinion. I hope you get me win231.


I certainly do get you.  So does everyone else.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Jan 5, 2022)

feywon said:


> What neither @IFortuna  or @Skyking bothered to consider is they were not here from the beginning of either this thread or for the brief duration of Senor Chef's time with us. (He took issue with some rules, butting heads with Admin, and either chose not to continue membership or was asked to leave.)   But before this post he had shown us who he was and we had  good reasons to be suspicious of his veracity.
> 
> I'm not going to go into detail since he's no longer here to speak for himself.  I will say age does not confer wisdom or any other virtue, nor does it make a person  either a victim or a hero especially when when they refuse to consider/respect any POV other than their own on any topic.  I have little doubt that had he been the passenger standing, trying to get by on a moving vehicle he could have spun just as passionate presentation of the seated person with cart being a 'jerk'.  But he could/would not see the possibility the other person was as tired and.could view his behavior equally annoying.
> 
> ...


I don’t really think he adopted a puppy.  I think that was all made up.  I didn’t even notice he had left or was gone.


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## fmdog44 (Jan 5, 2022)

Lee said:


> Why is it necessary for you mention that the man was black? Just curious.


maybe because he was!


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## fmdog44 (Jan 5, 2022)

Pepper said:


> Now, see?  We have this in common.  If anyone jumps ahead of the line in front of me they are in for the surprise of their life.  I also don't take crap, and am confident in the results.  I can fight to the death, and Look! I'm still here.


Another internet tough guy


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## feywon (Jan 5, 2022)

Aneeda72 said:


> I don’t really think he adopted a puppy.  I think that was all made up.  I didn’t even notice he had left or was gone.


A possibility, like the dreams of a lost love that He wanted to stop yet found reasons to reject every suggestion made about how to do so.
And i'm going hope it was rhe case.


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## Gaer (Jan 5, 2022)

Senior Chef was attacked from most of you from the moment he joined this group.
He was in constant defense.
He was a nice man and yes, He had a puppy!
He loved cooking and wanted to share his recipes!
He was a friend of mine.
Of course he left!  Some of you were horrible to him!


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## hollydolly (Jan 5, 2022)

Gaer said:


> *Senior Chef was attacked from most of you from the moment he joined this group.*
> He was in constant defense.
> He was a nice man and yes, He had a puppy!
> He loved cooking and wanted to share his recipes!
> ...


Not me..I don't think_ I_ attacked him...


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## win231 (Jan 5, 2022)

Gaer said:


> Senior Chef was attacked from most of you from the moment he joined this group.
> He was in constant defense.
> He was a nice man and yes, He had a puppy!
> He loved cooking and wanted to share his recipes!
> ...


Don'tcha just hate it when that happens?
It's so damn unfair!
Someone is a racist troublemaker, he posts about how proud of himself he is & people are horrible to him!
Now we ain't gettin' no recipes!


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## feywon (Jan 5, 2022)

I  can't help wondering if all the people who "Won't take any crap." take any steps to ensure they don't inadvertently give anyone else crap? Sometimes it's  hard to tell if someone is on line or not in a crowded store. 

While I agree  that sometimes we have take a stand for principles/values including speaking up for oneself if someone is trying to take advantage.  However, my default mode is not to make assumptions that someone is being deliberately problematic, when other explanations possible. Especially in big cities where rushing, and focusing only on what you need/want to do, tuning out anything not your goal is common.


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## Aneeda72 (Jan 5, 2022)

Gaer said:


> Senior Chef was attacked from most of you from the moment he joined this group.
> He was in constant defense.
> He was a nice man and yes, He had a puppy!
> He loved cooking and wanted to share his recipes!
> ...


Did YOU personally go to his house and meet his puppy?  He received a LOT of suggestions from people who know how to care for puppies, on how he should care for his puppy.  He rejected almost all of them.  As a result, the puppy was treated like, well, crap; as he himself said.

Chaining a dog in the house as I remember.  Chicken wire used for a puppy pen.  No appropriate vet visits and on and on and on.  Always blaming the puppy for its misbehavior and not himself.  Whatever.  I am not interested enough to go back and read, and quote, the couple of threads on the supposed puppy as I did not believe, at that time or now, that he had a puppy.

If he actually did, then the puppy was abused.  You should have asked your angles to rescue the puppy which, if I remember correct, he did not keep.  So, maybe, you did or they did.

As for cooking, I don’t.


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## Aneeda72 (Jan 5, 2022)

feywon said:


> I  can't help wondering if all the people who "Won't take any crap." take any steps to ensure they don't inadvertently give anyone else crap? Sometimes it's  hard to tell if someone is on line or not in a crowded store.
> 
> While I agree  that sometimes we have take a stand for principles/values including speaking up for oneself if someone is trying to take advantage.  However, my default mode is not to make assumptions that someone is being deliberately problematic, when other explanations possible. Especially in big cities where rushing, and focusing only on what you need/want to do, tuning out anything not your goal is common.


Well, I take a lot of crap, therefore, I try and share as much of it as I can.


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## Lakeland living (Jan 5, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> and that's where it is these days
> 
> Young folks are lacking
> 
> ...


Again you said it perfectly Gary O.   Nuff said


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## Shero (Jan 5, 2022)

feywon said:


> What neither @IFortuna  or @Skyking bothered to consider is they were not here from the beginning of either this thread or for the brief duration of Senor Chef's time with us. (He took issue with some rules, butting heads with Admin, and either chose not to continue membership or was asked to leave.)   But before this post he had shown us who he was and we had  good reasons to be suspicious of his veracity.
> 
> I'm not going to go into detail since he's no longer here to speak for himself.  I will say age does not confer wisdom or any other virtue, nor does it make a person  either a victim or a hero especially when when they refuse to consider/respect any POV other than their own on any topic.  I have little doubt that had he been the passenger standing, trying to get by on a moving vehicle he could have spun just as passionate presentation of the seated person with cart being a 'jerk'.  But he could/would not see the possibility the other person was as tired and.could view his behavior equally annoying.
> 
> ...



Exactly, but I do believe there was no  puppy.
Sometimes some people make up stories to ingratiate themselves and to win support.
I have heard so many tales, of dying relatives, of losing fortunes, of being poverty stricken.
Chef was a drama queen and I am amused at Fortuna's bizarre obsession with him.


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