# Kate Smith banned by Yankees



## Sunny (May 3, 2019)

I don't remember seeing this topic on this forum.  The surprising story is that Kate Smith's famous renditiion of God Bless America has been banned from Yankee games because
she sang two racist songs, possibly satirical, back in the early 1930's.  She was apparently a passionate advocate of racial and religious tolerance, which makes this very complicated and unexpected.  How do you feel about it?  Here's one article about it.

http://www.adirondackdailyenterpris...9/05/did-kate-smith-make-up-for-racist-songs/


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## RadishRose (May 3, 2019)

More than 80 years ago. People still digging to find something to get mad about. When can they finally move on? The world is a different place thank goodness.


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## fmdog44 (May 3, 2019)

Why not ban all old tv shows that had no minorities included in the casts?


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## rgp (May 3, 2019)

BS in my opinion......just placating the blacks.


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## JimW (May 3, 2019)




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## Aunt Bea (May 3, 2019)

_"I know that i'm not perfect
and that i don't claim to be,
so before you point your fingers,
make sure your hands are clean..." _- Bob Marley


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## Aneeda72 (May 3, 2019)

More silliness.  It was a different time 80 years ago.  Perhaps the complainers should read a history book.  Oh, wait, history is not taught in school anymore, schools don’t have books, and a lot of people unfortunately have poor reading and comprehension skills.

Ok, let’s require complainers to take a test on history before they are allowed to, hmm, complain about how things were.


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## AZ Jim (May 3, 2019)

I am officially banning the Yankees henceforth.


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## Aunt Bea (May 3, 2019)

It's interesting to me that there is no outrage over Kate Smith singing a song that asks God to keep an eye on us and give us his blessings.

Sometimes I think that these controversies are actually planned/staged in an attempt to distract us from more important issues facing our country.

These things take the national conversation away from immigration, the national debt, education, healthcare, jobs, etc...


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## applecruncher (May 3, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> More silliness.  It was a different time 80 years ago.  Perhaps the complainers should read a history book.  Oh, wait, history is not taught in school anymore, schools don’t have books, and a lot of people unfortunately have poor reading and comprehension skills.
> 
> Ok, let’s require complainers to take a test on history before they are allowed to, hmm, complain about how things were.




I don't care that much about Kate Smith, what she sang, or where.

However, 

Yes, a test.  Hmmm.

Apartheid, the Holocaust, slavery, and genocide are parts of history. So be sure to include those in your "test".

So predictable that flippant "get over it" responses are so quick to come from those who haven't been affected.

This is typical of any racial discussion here at SF and elsewhere.

No, the world is NOT such a different place.


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## C'est Moi (May 3, 2019)

"Making it a bigger issue than it needs to be is the problem here."   --Morgan Freeman, a very wise gentleman


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## chic (May 3, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> More than 80 years ago. People still digging to find something to get mad about. When can they finally move on? The world is a different place thank goodness.



I agree. Seriously. When do we ban George Washington's memory because he was a slave owner? History is history. Everybody's ancestors were probably ostracized or enslaved by somebody at some point in history. Let's be adults and learn from history while moving forward. Shall we?


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## Geezerette (May 3, 2019)

I had never heard that song about "darkies" (excuse the expression)sung by her or by anyone else, & I think it's just awful. As said above racial relations were complicated back in those days, and are still complicated at times now. I think racist behaviors can be like cancer:remove it when it's found before it spreads.  I have to admit I admired Kate when I was grown up because I liked seeing a chunky woman admired instead of vilified. I hadn't realized MLB was still using old recordings. Just time to retire her anyway . I just hope they don't substitute some honkytonk versions of patriotic songs. There are some songs that I prefer to hear performed as written: Star Spangled Banner, America the Beautiful & God Bless America.  

Rgp's remark sounded pretty racist to me.


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## C'est Moi (May 3, 2019)

If you spend your time looking for racism, you're sure to find it.   In ALL races.


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## applecruncher (May 3, 2019)

And sometimes you can find it without looking for it. Just livin' yer life, mindin' yer business, then WHAM there "it" is.


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## Shalimar (May 3, 2019)

It was racist, regardless of when it occurred, it was and is unacceptable.


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## C'est Moi (May 3, 2019)

Wrong.   In the 1930's, sadly it was not "unacceptable."   It's only a problem now, when people are so desperate to be offended by something that they have to dig back nearly 90 years to find it.   Let's just move forward, people.


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## Sassycakes (May 3, 2019)

Last week I heard the song they mentioned when the Philadelphia Flyers banned her from singing the National anthem for them.She sang it with a Black man and it wasn't racist in my opinion. Kate Smith passed away in 1984,and they bring it up now. I think they even removed a statue of her. This world is getting sicker and sicker. I'm not denying Racism still exists but in this case they are wrong.


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## applecruncher (May 3, 2019)

Some of you actually have a solution to many problems:

Get over it! Move on!

What's up with the #metoo stuff?  Pffft.
****** harassment, rape, ----> Get over it! Move on!


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## C'est Moi (May 3, 2019)

Yes, some of us choose to think positive and see the good in people instead of wallowing in ancient imagined slights.   Amazing, isn't it?


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## applecruncher (May 3, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> Yes, some of us choose to think positive and see the good in people instead of wallowing in ancient imagined slights.   Amazing, isn't it?




Amazing?  Nah, not really.
I doubt that Holocaust survivors and rape victims would agree with your "imagined slights" label.


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## rgp (May 3, 2019)

There ain't no future in the past.........


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## rgp (May 3, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> Some of you actually have a solution to many problems:
> 
> Get over it! Move on!
> 
> ...




   The #metoo stuff? All unsubstantiated claims going back decades in many of the [so-called] cases. Not one ounce of evidence/proof, only accusation. 

 ****** harassment & rape.....Apples & Elephants . True rape reported ASAP? and with proof?....indeed a horrible crime , prosecute to the max.

****** harassment?...Too broad'a brush , too much a matter of opinion. If not on tape/video?....Next to impossible to prove .


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## Aneeda72 (May 3, 2019)

I went back and re-read this thread again.  Like many things, it interest me a great deal since I seem to be in a very reflective mood most of the time.  Looking back a lot at my childhood experiences.  People pass judgement so easily on things they have little understanding of, and that would include me.

Commenting on southern racism with no experience of it, is like trying to tell a rocket scientist he used the wrong fuel because the rocket blew up.  It just doesn’t compute.  Others will disagree, but if you did not grow up in the deep south of the United States then, IMO, you have no concept of what casual racism was or is.

The only near comparison I can think of, which comes very close to explaining how things were, is to say all Germans were Nazis.  I refrain from passing judgement on Germans who lived in Germany during a certain period of time.  We all might refrain from passing judgement on Kate Smith.  What is racism now, was not racism then.

A little test for you all.

I remember visiting grandma in the 1950’s.  It was a small southern Texas town and the sidewalks were wooden walkways.  As we walked down this sidewalk, my grandmother, my aunt, my mother, and me-three white woman, one white child-walking side by side.  Two black men walked up the sidewalk toward us.

As we grew closer, the black men stepped off the sidewalk, tipped their hats to us, and passed us by.  Once we had passed, like ships on a river moving in opposite directions, the men hopped back on the sidewalk and continued on.  We never missed a step or acknowledged them.  Was their behavior dictated by racism?  Yes.  Do you know why?   

If you know why their behavior was considered racially motivated, then judge away. If you don’t know why then consider not judging.  Consider the same situation, in the same place, in the same period only substitute white men for black men.  What would the white men have done differently?  We, the woman, would have reacted the same no matter who the men were.

If you have seen movies from this time period, you will also know the difference in behavior that would have occurred involving this situation between these two groups of men towards white woman.  Who has the answer?


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## Trade (May 3, 2019)

Geezerette said:


> Rgp's remark sounded pretty racist to me.



It did to me too. And his was not the only one either.


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## Trade (May 3, 2019)

chic said:


> When do we ban George Washington's memory because he was a slave owner? History is history.



I think it's long overdue to stop white washing this country's history. Washington was a slave owner. As were two out of three of the "Founding Fathers". They also were elitists. The only people that were allowed to vote were white men who owned property. No women (that would include you) no blacks, no Indians. And all that was just as morally wrong back then as it is today. I'm sick and tired of the way people keep referring to the "Founding Fathers" as if they are some kind of God like individuals. These were very flawed men. And I feel no obligation to revere every thing they said and did as if it were the word of God.


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## Trade (May 3, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> It was racist, regardless of when it occurred, it was and is unacceptable.



I agree.


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## C'est Moi (May 3, 2019)

Trade said:


> I think it's long overdue to stop white washing this country's history. Washington was a slave owner. As were two out of three of the "Founding Fathers". They also were elitists. The only people that were allowed to vote were white men who owned property. No women (that would include you) no blacks, no Indians. And all that was just as morally wrong back then as it is today. I'm sick and tired of the way people keep referring to the "Founding Fathers" as if they are some kind of God like individuals. These were very flawed men. And I feel no obligation to revere every thing they said and did as if it were the word of God.



All of humanity is flawed.   And as for "white washing history," how freakin' ABSURD.   History is just that...history.   It cannot be changed no matter how much people don't like it with their newly-discovered sensibilities.   We just have to do better NOW.


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## Trade (May 3, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> Some of you actually have a solution to many problems:
> 
> Get over it! Move on!
> 
> ...



Doncha love it when white people tell you racism isn't a problem?


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## applecruncher (May 3, 2019)

Trade said:


> I think it's long overdue to stop white washing this country's history. Washington was a slave owner. As were two out of three of the "Founding Fathers". They also were elitists. The only people that were allowed to vote were white men who owned property. No women (that would include you) no blacks, no Indians. And all that was just as morally wrong back then as it is today. I'm sick and tired of the way people keep referring to the "Founding Fathers" as if they are some kind of God like individuals. These were very flawed men. And I feel no obligation to revere every thing they said and did as if it were the word of God.



I agree.  "Founding Fathers" ...Pffft.


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## applecruncher (May 3, 2019)

Trade said:


> Doncha love it when white people tell you racism isn't a problem?



Or some BS about rappers using the N word.

Or when they say everybody's racist. Get over it.

Heh. Yeah.  Get over it indeed.

Don't wallow.  Yeah, right.....


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## applecruncher (May 3, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> It was racist, regardless of when it occurred, it was and is unacceptable.



Yep.


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## Trade (May 3, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> All of humanity is flawed.   And as for "white washing history," how freakin' ABSURD.   History is just that...history.   It cannot be changed no matter how much people don't like it with their newly-discovered sensibilities.   We just have to do better NOW.





History is being rewritten all the time. Most of the history that is being taught in our schools is propaganda written with an agenda in mind.  

For some real history start by reading Howard Zinn's "A Peoples History of the United States"


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## Trade (May 3, 2019)

Louis CK pretty much sums up the way I feel about race. 

*Warning: language*



Spoiler


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## fmdog44 (May 3, 2019)

Those type social media stories are typical of the millions perpetrated by Russia, China and Cuba everyone is talking about.


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## applecruncher (May 4, 2019)

@ Aneeda72

There is nothing YOU can teach ME about racism. Nothing.


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## oldman (May 4, 2019)

Did everyone read the article mentioned by the OP? At the end of the article, Kate Smith wrote a doctrine of sorts that stated the following message. It seems to me that she had a change of heart and maybe even asking for forgiveness? My beliefs aren't everyone's beliefs, I know that and understand that we all live by a set of principles that we were either taught or learned. No one would argue that racism isn't still alive today in America, but we have come a long way. Yes, there is more work to be done. Looking back when Kate sang her songs that were demeaning to blacks, they were acceptable because that was the mentality of the whites living back then. It was a bad attempt at having humor. After reading Kate's comments regarding having tolerance, maybe we can all learn something from reading it. 

*Kate Smith on “The Value of Tolerance”*
“It seems to me that faith in the decency of human beings is what we must have more of, if there is to be a future for all of us in this world. We read in the papers every day about conferences on the best way to keep the peace. Well, I’m not an expert on foreign affairs — and I don’t pretend to know all the complex things that will have to be done for a lasting peace. But I am a human being — and I do know something about people. I know that our statesmen — our armies of occupation — our military strategists — may all fail if the peoples of the world don’t learn to understand and tolerate each other.
“Race hatreds — social prejudices — religious bigotry — they are the diseases that eat away the fibers of peace. Unless they are exterminated it’s inevitable that we will have another war. And where are they going to be exterminated? At a conference table in Geneva? Not by a long shot. In your own city — your church — your children’s school — perhaps in your own home.
“You and I must do it – every father and mother in the world, every teacher, everyone who can rightfully call himself a human being. Yes, it seems to me that the one thing the peoples of the world have got to learn if we are ever to have a lasting peace, is — tolerance. Of what use will it be if the lights go on again all over the world — if they don’t go on … in our hearts.”​


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## Tommy (May 4, 2019)

oldman said:


> “It seems to me that faith in the decency of human beings is what we must have more of, if there is to be a future for all of us in this world. We read in the papers every day about conferences on the best way to keep the peace. Well, I’m not an expert on foreign affairs — and I don’t pretend to know all the complex things that will have to be done for a lasting peace. But I am a human being — and I do know something about people. I know that our statesmen — our armies of occupation — our military strategists — may all fail if the peoples of the world don’t learn to understand and tolerate each other. “Race hatreds — social prejudices — religious bigotry — they are the diseases that eat away the fibers of peace. Unless they are exterminated it’s inevitable that we will have another war. And where are they going to be exterminated? At a conference table in Geneva? Not by a long shot. In your own city — your church — your children’s school — perhaps in your own home.
> “You and I must do it – every father and mother in the world, every teacher, everyone who can rightfully call himself a human being. Yes, it seems to me that the one thing the peoples of the world have got to learn if we are ever to have a lasting peace, is — tolerance. Of what use will it be if the lights go on again all over the world — if they don’t go on … in our hearts.”​


​ Much wisdom there.  Sadlly, especially over the past decade, hatred by people of all stripes seems to be increasing.


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## applecruncher (May 4, 2019)

@ Oldman
@ Tommy

So Kate Smith essentially said:

Racism is wrong
People should be nicer to each other
Everyone should practice tolerance and respect

Sorry, but that's not exactly a newsflash and saying those things in 1945 or at any other time doesn't make Kate Smith wise, and the fact remains that several of her songs were racist and disgusting.  With regard to race relations, I don't see the last ten years as being that much worse than the.last twenty, thirty, or even fifty years.


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## Trade (May 4, 2019)

rgp said:


> BS in my opinion......just placating the blacks.



So what? Black people have had to placate us whites for centuries. Maybe it's time for us to take our turn in the barrel.


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## Sunny (May 4, 2019)

I'd be curious to know what took place in her life between the early 1930's and 1945, when she apparently came out as a big advocate for racial tolerance.  Did she suddenly have a moment of enlightenment? ("OMG, what have I done?")  Was there a public outcry?  Did it take the Holocaust to raise people's awareness? Why the extreme change? 

This is in no way an excuse or apology for the racism that passed as "humor" for many, many years. I've never understood why Al Jolson was considered such a great performer; I find his
blackface routines painful to watch. And the lyrics of some of those songs are just as awful, with or without the blackface.

I've directed a number of plays for our little theater group, based on old radio and TV shows. Wading through a lot of the old scripts, trying to find something that a modern audience would enjoy,
I've been horrified by the offensiveness of a lot of the so-called humor. And some of it was well after the period when Kate Smith sang those songs. People have such a misty-eyed fondness for those old radio shows, such as Ozzie and Harriet, Fibber McGee and Molly, even Fred Allen. (Not to mention Amos 'n Andy!)  Many of those old shows can be heard again, thanks to Google, and the
scripts are available free of charge.  They are horrible!  Some are not as serious as the racist ones, but would we really laugh today at jokes about dumb blondes, stupid female drivers, characters who are routinely "drunk" week after week, mother-in-law jokes. etc.?

So I guess I come down on the side of those who say that level of humor is a disgusting, embarrassing part of our legacy as Americans. But punishing the performers who took part, before their consciousness was raised, is kind of pointless, especially when they have long been dead. 

Which brings us to the statues of Confederate generals, streets and schools named after them, etc.  What should be done about that?  Isn't this Kate Smith brouhaha sort of about the same thing?


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## Aneeda72 (May 4, 2019)

In those days, there were rules.  People liked rules.  We all, no matter what color we were, knew the rules and knew where we belonged in those rules.  We danced the dance of racism together, we still do.  We were/are all responsible for the parts we played then, and the parts we play now.

Its easy to proclaim you are not racist on a forum.  But where do you live, who are your neighbors?  I live in a racially mixed neighborhood.  Blacks, whites, Hispanics, and some interracial marriages between us all with even more diversity.  We are so fortunate in that none of us are racist, all of us are friendly, and there are no problems on the block.  If only the world could be as kind as this neighborhood is, I hate that I have to move.

Sunny, I am reluctant to address anything regarding the Holocaust.  The issues surrounding the Holocaust were and are currently political issues and can not be discussed on this forum.


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## norman (May 4, 2019)

Society can not bend over far enough to correct wrongs of the past.  Laws have been put in place to prevent wrongs of past generation from repeating.  Maybe a flood is the answer as recorded in the Bible, because the world had gotten so evil.


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## rgp (May 4, 2019)

Rgp's remark sounded pretty racist to me.



Trade said:


> It did to me too. And his was not the only one either.




  OK, I'll say it, I prefer my own people, white people....so if that makes me a racist?...then I suppose i am.

  Do not try to shame me....it won't work. 

  I'm willing to bet that most here......are the same.....preferring their own. But they will never admit it.


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## C'est Moi (May 4, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> Amazing?  Nah, not really.
> I doubt that Holocaust survivors and rape victims would agree with your "imagined slights" label.


Seriously??   You'd stoop to comparing rape victims and Holocaust survivors with being butt-hurt over a SONG?   More pathetic than I originally imagined.


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## C'est Moi (May 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> So what? Black people have had to placate us whites for centuries. Maybe it's time for us to take our turn in the barrel.



You can take YOUR turn anywhere you like; do not presume to speak for me.   You don't know anything about "us whites" other than your own experience.   I have lived my life as best I can and I only expect other people to do the same, regardless of color.   Frankly, I don't see anyone being "held back" today if they have the gumption to get out there and work for the life they want.  

These discussions never go anywhere because the same people make the same tired arguments.   I try to stay out of it because usually, it makes my blood boil to hear white people vilified over crap that happened years ago and we cannot change today.   I'm a decent person and most of the people I know are the same, no matter their ethnicity.   

Here's a young man that has a healthy outlook on life.  (*CAUTION:* * Language*)



Spoiler


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## Olivia (May 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> Seriously??   You'd stoop to comparing rape victims and Holocaust survivors with being butt-hurt over a SONG?   More pathetic than I originally imagined.



It's not about a song. It's the fact that prejudice and discrimination in our culture hasn't changed much. In fact, has increased tremendously in the last couple of years. Maybe you haven't kept up with the news. And it's not just about Black and White. It's anyone that isn't "just like us". I'm not saying that's you. Not at all. But there are more and more like rpg, who don't even try to pretend anymore, because they've got many just like them. Sadly. People just have to speak up.


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## Trade (May 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> You can take YOUR turn anywhere you like; do not presume to speak for me.   You don't know anything about "us whites" other than your own experience.   I have lived my life as best I can and I only expect other people to do the same, regardless of color.   Frankly, I don't see anyone being "held back" today if they have the gumption to get out there and work for the life they want.
> 
> These discussions never go anywhere because the same people make the same tired arguments.   I try to stay out of it because usually, it makes my blood boil to hear white people vilified over crap that happened years ago and we cannot change today.   I'm a decent person and most of the people I know are the same, no matter their ethnicity.




http://www.execonn.com/matt/Docs/EightPrin.htm


> The universe demands balance.  The Law of Compensation is that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.  If the pendulum swings one way, it must always swing back the other way.



I don't make the rules. Our turn in the barrel is coming whether you or I like it or not. That's the law of the universe. If you have any complaints you'll just have to take it up with whomever is in charge. Since I'm an Atheist I can't tell you who that might be. 

:tongue:


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## Trade (May 4, 2019)

rgp said:


> OK, I'll say it, I prefer my own people, white people....



Well Dude, I'm 100% white. But I sure as Hell ain't one of your people.


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## Trade (May 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> You don't know anything about "us whites" other than your own experience.



So In spite of being a white dude for 72 years, I don't know anything about being white except for my own experience? 

And yet you, a white woman, for however many years, present yourself as someone who knows a whole lot about what it's like to be black?

Could you explain the thought process that you used to arrive at those conclusions? Because I just don't get it.


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## C'est Moi (May 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> So In spite of being a white dude for 72 years, I don't know anything about being white except for my own experience?
> 
> And yet you, a white woman, for however many years, present yourself as someone who knows a whole lot about what it's like to be black?
> 
> Could you explain the thought process that you used to arrive at those conclusions? Because I just don't get it.



Show me where I said anything about "knowing what it's like to be black."   I never said anything of the sort because I would not presume to do so.    Stop putting words in my mouth; I can speak for myself.  

I live my life responsibly, I take care of my own, and I don't ask anyone for handouts or sympathy.   Most people live similar lives, but for a whining few who choose to be "offended."   PLEASE.    Frankly, I'm tired of it.  I treat people with the same respect no matter what their color or religion, until they show me they don't deserve my respect.   Last time I looked this was still a free country though there are those who are working hard to change that.


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## C'est Moi (May 4, 2019)

Olivia said:


> It's not about a song. It's the fact that prejudice and discrimination in our culture hasn't changed much. In fact, has increased tremendously in the last couple of years. Maybe you haven't kept up with the news. And it's not just about Black and White. It's anyone that isn't "just like us". I'm not saying that's you. Not at all. But there are more and more like rpg, who don't even try to pretend anymore, because they've got many just like them. Sadly. People just have to speak up.



Bulletin for you:   White people are NO MORE PREJUDICED than any other ethnicity.  And if "people" need to speak up, why can't RPG??   PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.   The victim mentality in this country is appalling.   

And I keep up with things just fine.   I don't shape my opinions of what's happening in this country by the talking heads on CNN; I actually interact with PEOPLE like my Mexican-American next door neighbors, my Latino son-in-law, and the precious black couple across the street whose little girl is like one of my own.   I see what happens IN REAL LIFE, not on the TV screen.   But thanks for playing.


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## Olivia (May 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> Bulletin for you:   White people are NO MORE PREJUDICED than any other ethnicity.



As I wrote: 


> And it's *not* just about Black and White. It's anyone that isn't "just like us".


And I never accused you of anything.


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## Trade (May 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> Show me where I said anything about "knowing what it's like to be black."   I never said anything of the sort because I would not presume to do so.



Happy to oblige. 



> Frankly, I don't see anyone being "held back" today if they have the  gumption to get out there and work for the life they want.


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## C'est Moi (May 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> Happy to oblige.



As I said, show me where I said I know what it's like to be black.   You are putting your own pathetic spin on my words.

And that's all I have to say about that.   These threads are such a waste of bandwidth; I don't know why I get sucked in.   Have a nice day.


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## Trade (May 4, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> As I said, show me where I said I know what it's like to be black.   You are putting your own pathetic spin on my words.



If by "spin" you mean that I took your statement to mean that you believe black people have the same opportunities as white people then yes, I did spin it. 

Did you mean that? Or was it something else pray tell?


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## Geezerette (May 4, 2019)

So Trade, have you had your DNA done? Are you absolutely, positively  sure what you are?


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## rgp (May 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> If by "spin" you mean that I took your statement to mean that you believe black people have the same opportunities as white people then yes, I did spin it.
> 
> Did you mean that? Or was it something else pray tell?




   They [black folk] have even more opportunities than do whites.......The civil rights acts passed in the 60's..EEO, MBE, Affirmative Action,....all BS. If they want equality? & /or they should be considered equal?...Why do they need constant handouts/hand-ups? Where is the equality ?


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## rgp (May 4, 2019)

Trade said:


> Well Dude, I'm 100% white. But I sure as Hell ain't one of your people.




 That's good to know........


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## rgp (May 4, 2019)

Olivia said:


> It's not about a song. It's the fact that prejudice and discrimination in our culture hasn't changed much. In fact, has increased tremendously in the last couple of years. Maybe you haven't kept up with the news. And it's not just about Black and White. It's anyone that isn't "just like us". I'm not saying that's you. Not at all. But there are more and more like rpg, who don't even try to pretend anymore, because they've got many just like them. Sadly. People just have to speak up.




 I never pretended...I have always been honest about it.

 Are you pretending?

 If you & others can "speak-up" regarding racism in favor of the blacks?...why is it wrong for me, [or anyone] to "speak-up" regarding racism in favor of white folks?.........Where's the equality in that?


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## Trade (May 4, 2019)

Geezerette said:


> So Trade, have you had your DNA done? Are you absolutely, positively  sure what you are?



I'm glad you asked that question! 

Once again, happy to oblige. 

As you can see, 100% Caucasian. 

I'm a mix of Polack and Dutch. That's why I have such a hard head. 

And now you also know my real first name.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 4, 2019)

Well, I am not 100 per cent white, but Trade, my white is whiter than your white because I am mostly Irish, and Irish is really really white.  I also have a touch of German and a sprinkle of American Indian.  The American Indian makes me more entitled to this piece of Mother Earth we call the United States.

I am sharing my piece of Mother Earth with anyone who wants a piece.  All are welcome here, I can not wait for the “browning of America” to be complete so we can quit have these nonsensical discussions about the color of one’s skin.


----------



## Pepper (May 4, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> Sunny, I am reluctant to address anything regarding the Holocaust.  The issues surrounding the Holocaust were and are currently political issues and *can not be discussed on this forum*.



Someone died and made you boss.


----------



## applecruncher (May 4, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> In those days, there were rules.  People liked rules.  We all, no matter what color we were, knew the rules and knew where we belonged in those rules.  We danced the dance of racism together, we still do.  We were/are all responsible for the parts we played then, and the parts we play now.
> 
> Its easy to proclaim you are not racist on a forum.  But where do you live, who are your neighbors?  I live in a racially mixed neighborhood.  Blacks, whites, Hispanics, and some interracial marriages between us all with even more diversity.  We are so fortunate in that none of us are racist, all of us are friendly, and there are no problems on the block.  If only the world could be as kind as this neighborhood is, I hate that I have to move.
> 
> Sunny, I am reluctant to address anything regarding the Holocaust.  The issues surrounding the Holocaust were and are currently political issues and can not be discussed on this forum.





The Holocaust is political?  That's a stretch.

Using your logic racial issues are also political, so you shouldn't be discussing race.


----------



## applecruncher (May 4, 2019)

@ Trade

I told you a long time ago that in that picture of you as a little boy and also as a young man you look bi-racial.

:lofl:  You're tryin' to pass!  (hmmm, I remember when Ebony magazine had ads for bleaching creme.)

btw, is that you in your avatar?


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 4, 2019)

Someone died and made me boss?  YAY,  can I have a pay raise?  Yes, the Holocaust issues are political, google it or, idk, read a newspaper.  And it says repeatedly no political discussions, not my rule.  I’d be happy to discuss the Holocaust.  Start a thread, we will discuss away.

I don’t feel like I am discussing race, I feel like I am discussing skin color, different issue, and Kate Smith, and how it was back when she was not a racist.  But, lol, what do I know.


----------



## applecruncher (May 4, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> ...But, lol, what do I know.



That sums it up.  "lol" indeed.


----------



## Pepper (May 4, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> Someone died and made me boss?  YAY,  can I have a pay raise?  Yes, the Holocaust issues are political, google it or, idk, read a newspaper.  And it says repeatedly no political discussions, not my rule.  I’d be happy to discuss the Holocaust.  Start a thread, we will discuss away.
> 
> I don’t feel like I am discussing race, I feel like I am discussing skin color, different issue, and Kate Smith, and how it was back when she was not a racist.  But, lol, what do I know.



There are only two types who would consider a Holocaust discussion to be controversial or political and they are deniers and/or anti- semites.  Why else would it cause disruption?  Anyway, I know you are neither.  Otherwise, such a discussion would be, should be, considered of historical significance.

Kate Smith--when I was a little kid I just could not stand her, she kinda scared me, I think, so I am more than happy not to hear her ever again for whatever reason.  Let's give other singers a chance, Kate's not enshrined in the post.  Onward!


----------



## applecruncher (May 4, 2019)




----------



## Trade (May 4, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> @ Trade
> 
> I told you a long time ago that in that picture of you as a little boy and also as a young man you look bi-racial.
> 
> ...



I only wish I had some black DNA. Then maybe my you know what would be bigger. 

I spent a lot of time out in the Florida Sun when I was a kid. Working on my tan. And I got pretty dark. 



But then I noticed that people who had been sun worshipers all their lives looked like they were 60 by the time they were 40. So I quit that.


----------



## applecruncher (May 4, 2019)

> I only wish I had some black DNA. Then maybe my you know what would be bigger.





That's a myth, trust me.


----------



## Trade (May 4, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> I have nothing to prove, not posting the results,



Yeah, that's what I thought. You're one of those Wannabe Indians.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 4, 2019)

Thank you Pepper.

I am neither.  I KNOW the Holocaust happened.  My stepfather, a WWII us army veteran, was there when the American Army reached Ohrdruf-Buchenwald, as were others.  (My uncle, my mother’s brother was at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese attacked.).  As mentioned in other posts, my family has always served our country.

My step-father helped with the liberation of the camp.  No, I have no stories I can relate.  He didn’t talk about.  It was mentioned at certain times, memory fails, but I was a teenager.  We watched certain movies.  He would remark, “I was there”.  He would ask us to turn the movie off.  I mostly remember his sadness.  

Mother would say dad’s (our bio dad’s) family had German Jews in it.  Ancestry confirms the Germany connection.  As mentioned in other posts, my nephew, his wife, and their children are Jewish.  I know the Holocaust happened.


----------



## Trade (May 4, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> That's a myth, trust me.



Like Hell it is. 

I remember the first time I saw black dudes naked up close. It was in the shower room in basic training. It's true. They have us white dudes beat in that department.


----------



## treeguy64 (May 4, 2019)

OK, so how many, here, care that KS sang a few songs that definitely had a racist bent? Would you pull this unrelated tune from your lineup?


----------



## Trade (May 4, 2019)

I vote they play this:


<font size="4">


----------



## drifter (May 4, 2019)

I'm a longtime fan of Morgan Freeman.


----------



## Sunny (May 5, 2019)

> Sunny, I am reluctant to address anything regarding the Holocaust.  The  issues surrounding the Holocaust were and are currently political issues  and can not be discussed on this forum.



Aneeda, why is referring to the Holocaust any more "political" than anything else referred to in this thread?  If you don't want to "address anything regarding the Holocaust," that's your privilege, of course. But I really don't think the rules of this forum prevent us from mentioning that something that occurred in 1945 may have been influenced by the Holocaust. What is "political" about that?

Kate Smith apparently had an extreme change of heart. Or maybe she didn't realize the offensiveness of those two songs back in the early 30's?  My question is, what caused such a sudden change of attitude?


----------



## Aunt Bea (May 5, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Kate Smith apparently had an extreme change of heart. Or maybe she didn't realize the offensiveness of those two songs back in the early 30's?  My question is, what caused such a sudden change of attitude?



IMO Kate Smith was not a racist and did not have a change of heart she simply recorded a popular song of the day.  The song That's Why The Darkies Were Born was also recorded by Paul Robeson in 1931 and no mention has been made of his rendition of the song being racist.

My question is how do we all let go of the past and find our way forward.

IMO a very large step forward would be to stop slicing and dicing every statistic along racial lines and simply focus on how we deal with the issues that impact all of us.

Another good idea from Morgan Freeman in a 2005 interview with Mike Wallace:

WALLACE: How are we going to get rid of racism until …?

FREEMAN: Stop talking about it. I’m going to stop calling you a white man. And I’m going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You’re not going to say, “I know this white guy named Mike Wallace.” Hear what I’m saying?


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 5, 2019)

Sunny,

If the Holocaust is not a political issue, and it is so important to you and others, why don’t you start a thread on it?  What’s stopping you from doing so?  I have certainly mentioned this before and I encourage you to start such a thread. I would put such a thread under Hot Topics, as I think it will be.  Let’s see if it becomes a political issue,  then you will have your answer.

I am wrong quite a bit.  I don’t mind being wrong.  I admit when I’m wrong.  So, feel free to prove my opinion, on this issue or any other issue, wrong.  I won’t post on the thread or comment about it.  I’ll just read it.  But not provide any opinion.  I am very new to the forum.  I interpret the rules in the way I interpret the issue.  Then I apply it to myself and give an opinion.

In reality, no one died and made me the boss.  I am sure about this cause I have not been paid.  Do what you want.  It might be quite a challenge linking the Holocaust to racism in the southern states of America during the 1930-1940’s.  I’d like to see it done.  After all, racism and slavery didn’t start in America.  How Kate Smith figures into the whole thing is beyond me.

In any event, I am done with this issue.

As for Kate Smith, I totally agree with Aunt Bee.  Kate Smith wasn’t a racist.


----------



## fmdog44 (May 5, 2019)

Cultural and political change in countries typically come from the populations thru protests, not from governments. What percent of Americans were opposed/in favor of unions, taxes, prohibition, women's right to vote, the voting age, the black vote, civil rights, the military draft and other issues? Once the issues became laws there is little anyone can do except for prohibition of course. The civil rights laws took the anti-minority rights people off the streets. The KKK was once numbered in the hundred of thousands but now they are shunned and ridiculed because the laws are against them. So not all people agree with the civil rights issues past and current but few are vocal about it so they just remain silent and go along with the crowd. Despite all our laws on the books does anyone actually believe black Americans feel right at home in America? Not hardly.


----------



## Sunny (May 5, 2019)

Aneeda, I did not ask who died and made you the boss. That was someone else. Please get your facts straight.

As for the Holocaust, I should think it is "important" to every sane person on this planet. And I do not need your permission to start a discussion about it if I so desired. But my question was not about the Holocaust. I was asking whether the enormity of WW2 (which included the Holocaust, of course) could have been partially responsible for a sea change in people's attitudes, and in what might be considered "humor."  You seem to think that the Holocaust is a political topic. I don't think the deaths of over 12 million people  could be considered "political" at all. But would you be less offended by the topic if I said, "Maybe her change of attitude was at least partially influenced by WW2?"  

Lots of things changed during that decade or two. We still had a long way to go until the Civil Rights movement, but after the war, things were beginning to loosen up, at least from where they were. It was, you might say, the beginning of modern thinking about a lot of things.  And maybe our realization about where hatred can get us, was at least part of the picture.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 5, 2019)

Ugh, sigh, why me?

Sunny, 

My facts are somewhat straight.  I know you didn’t make the comment about me being the boss.  I was making the comment about it, however, to you.

I wasn’t giving you permission to start a discussion.  How you got that out of what I said is a mystery.  I was and still am asking why you are not starting a discussion?  This discussion, I think, is about, something else.  But discussions ebb and flow so maybe not.  

Apparently, you are related to my husband, as you have something in common-the inability to answer a question in a straightforward manner.  I don’t know you, I’ve never met you, and, yet, you seem so familiar, lol.  Open a discussion, don’t open a discussion-Princess Pocahontas aka Aneeda, gives you permission to do either.

As to whether WWII could have have changed people’s opinion towards or concerning racism, I already gave my answer, you must be asking someone else’s opinion. *I am not offended by the topic.  If I were offended by the topic, I would not keep asking you to open a thread on it.  Lord love a duck, I can’t get the bold button to turn off.  Lol. 

*


----------



## AZ Jim (May 5, 2019)

The Holocaust happened.  It was maybe the best example of man's ability to be supportive of extreme cruelty to others for no good reason.  All those people, man, woman and child died because of their heritage.  It was the best example of the acts of humans lured by a insane, fanatic leader.  God bless those lost and God damn those who perpetrated those ungodly acts.


----------



## RadishRose (May 5, 2019)

I think the Holocaust prodded people to be more aware of social injustice of many types in their own lands.

In any case, I'm with Aunt Bea on Kate Smith.


----------



## Sassycakes (May 5, 2019)

I just read the Lyrics to the song and I honestly don't believe it was meant to insult Black People. Especially when I read the last paragraph.


Kate Smith​
Miscellaneous
That's Why Darkies Were Born
That's Why Darkies Were Born
Kate Smith
Henderson & Brown

Someone had to pick the cotton,
Someone had to pick the corn,
Someone had to slave and be able to sing,
That's why darkies were born;

Someone had to laugh at trouble,
Though he was tired and worn,
Had to be contented with any old thing,
That's why darkies were born;

Sing, sing, sing when you're weary and
Sing when you're blue,
Sing, sing, that's what you taught
All the white folks to do;
​Someone had to fight the Devil,
Shout about Gabriel's Horn,
Someone had to stoke the train
That would bring God's children to green pastures,
That's why darkies were born.​


----------



## Pepper (May 5, 2019)

Ask a black person about your theory, sass.  I'm not going to tell you what I think of it.  I'd be banned, as I can think of no polite way to say it, and it's almost time for "Call the Midwife."  Then "Game of Thrones."  Saved by my television.


----------



## rgp (May 5, 2019)

Pepper said:


> Ask a black person about your theory, sass.  I'm not going to tell you what I think of it.  I'd be banned, as I can think of no polite way to say it, and it's almost time for "Call the Midwife."  Then "Game of Thrones."  Saved by my television.




 And there we have it.....it's all in the perception , I won't comment on the KS song, & / or the words of the song, because my opinion doesn't matter anyway.

 I just think arguing over it / making it an issue after all this time, is nutz........jmo.


----------



## applecruncher (May 5, 2019)

In some ways this thread has been a learning experience, and in some ways just an affirmation reminding me of what I already knew....not that I needed a reminder.  It's also disappointing that the more disgusting posts haven't been removed.   To be honest, I find it quite sad.

@ Sassycakes - your post #89... Seriously?  Wow.  Just...wow.


----------



## Sassycakes (May 5, 2019)

Pepper said:


> Ask a black person about your theory, sass.  I'm not going to tell you what I think of it.  I'd be banned, as I can think of no polite way to say it, and it's almost time for "Call the Midwife."  Then "Game of Thrones."  Saved by my television.



I would most certainly respect a black persons view Pepper. There view on this subject would be much better than mine or anyone else that didn't experience what horrors the black people have endured and still endure. When I read the last section of the song I thought it meant the black people were here to save the world by fighting the Devil to bring others to a better view of how good black people are, not what they were being labeled.   

Someone had to fight the Devil,
Shout about Gabriel's Horn,
Someone had to stoke the train
That would bring God's children to green pastures,
That's why darkies were born.​


----------



## Pepper (May 6, 2019)

The lyrics are condescending and dehumanizing, putting and keeping black people in their "place."  It's utterly shameful.  Had to wince reading those lyrics, ouch.


----------



## RadishRose (May 6, 2019)

I understand the point Sassy was trying to make. The song is so awful, but she picked up on the last lines and found a different meaning in them.

In 1931, Paul Robeson sang this song as well. Why not criticize him too? He was an accomplished entertainer, world traveled and a civil rights activist. 

From YouTube-


> The classic example of a "completely offensive" song is "That's Why Darkies Were Born," recorded in 1931 by Kate Smith, Paul Whiteman and, oddly enough, Paul Robeson. Examined in today's context the song is nothing short of racist and horrifying. At the time, however, the song was thoroughly satirical -- a fact that wasn't lost on Robeson. But with the passing of time it has become thoroughly unacceptable and is purely for study of popular song and the culture of the time.



Please continue without further comment from me.


----------



## rgp (May 6, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> I understand the point Sassy was trying to make. The song is so awful, but she picked up on the last lines and found a different meaning in them.
> 
> In 1931, Paul Robeson sang this song as well. Why not criticize him too? He was an accomplished entertainer, world traveled and a civil rights activist.
> 
> ...





   "In 1931, Paul Robeson sang this song as well. Why not criticize him too? "


  Simple.....Kate Smith was white.....He is black. It' fine when they do it, it's somehow bad when we do it.

    But hey.....they're all about equality......


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## Sunny (May 6, 2019)

> it's almost time for "Call the Midwife."



OMG, Pepper, were you telling us that you had gone into labor?! :laugh:

More seriously, wouldn't it be interesting if this was really a satirical song, meant as a sarcastic take on racism?  Sort of along the lines of "You've Got To Be Taught"  from South Pacific?

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
Or people whose skin is a different shade,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.

You’ve got to be taught, 
Before it’s too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 6, 2019)

Think outside the box.

You could actually read the song as a condemnation of the white race.  Whites, of past times and pretty much present times, are too lazy to get out there and pick their own cotton so someone else had to do it.  Many whites think such manual labour is beneath them, thus our arrogance as a race continues.

Some crops can not be machine picked. Ever see a group of white people out picking a large field of tomatoes, grapes, strawberries?  Yup, you know who picks those crops now.  However, please tell me where you think white people do 
pick a field, if this happens in the good old USofA I’d like to see it. Surprise me.

There are many definitions for the word slave. As in slaving away at a job.  The song writer was way ahead of his time.  The concept that “darkies” were put here to teach whites is an amazing and true to point reality.  Teach us about hard work, surviving adversity, and finding joy in being alive under horrendous conditions.  Let’s give them credit due.

And, of course, to literally sing the praises of the lord while working yourself to death for a scrap of bread and a blanket.  What was up with that?  Blind faith?  Wishful thinking?  I just don’t know.  But that doesn’t happen now, does it?    Today’s pickers are not slaves, are they?  All those uneducated, non-English speaking immigrants yearning for the freedom to pick our crops and clean our toilets.

What’s up with that?  Yup, I’m going to settle down and watch game of thrones as well.  Love that show.  I also watch call the midwife.  And as history repeats itself, I am going to worry less about Kate and more about the iron throne.


----------



## StarSong (May 7, 2019)

Trade said:


> I think it's long overdue to stop white washing this country's history. Washington was a slave owner. As were two out of three of the "Founding Fathers". They also were elitists. The only people that were allowed to vote were white men who owned property. No women (that would include you) no blacks, no Indians. And all that was just as morally wrong back then as it is today. I'm sick and tired of the way people keep referring to the "Founding Fathers" as if they are some kind of God like individuals. These were very flawed men. And I feel no obligation to revere every thing they said and did as if it were the word of God.



I agree fully with every one of your points, Trade.


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## Beccaboo (May 7, 2019)

Have any of you listened to what your grandchildren are listening to today? Mostly in the lyrics of the Rap Music today and how it degrades most women and also black people and the life style they are living as well and most of these artists that it is coming from are black themselves. This sort of thing has been going on in music for decades and decades and until someone or an organization wants to make someone a whipping boy/girl over it no one says a word about it. Then once it comes to light then the whole race war starts up. News flash the race war is already there with or without these songs and people singing them. Sadly it will always be there because people cannot see beyond the color of ones skin and look inside one another and see that we all bleed the same color.


----------



## Pepper (May 7, 2019)

Beccaboo said:


> Then once it comes to light then the whole race war starts up. News flash the race war is already there with or without these songs and people singing them. Sadly it will always be there because people cannot see beyond the color of ones skin and look inside one another and see that we all bleed the same color.


I'm not as pessimistic as you.  What do you mean when you say race war?


----------



## RadishRose (May 7, 2019)

BeccaBoo has a point-

You think Kate Smith and Paul Robeson (a black man) sang disgusting songs?

Try some of these-

Warning,,, offensive and obscene content

https://hiphopwired.com/249697/das-racist-the-15-most-racist-songs-of-all-time/10/

https://www.complex.com/music/2014/...and-nubian-punks-jump-up-to-get-the-beat-down

There's plenty more.


----------



## StarSong (May 7, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> BeccaBoo has a point-
> 
> You think Kate Smith and Paul Robeson (a black man) sang disgusting songs?
> 
> ...



Isn't that the point that many are trying to make?  Racism is alive and well in this country - and on this planet - and should be deemed unacceptable whenever and wherever it exists.  Saying some songs, words, or actions are more racist than others doesn't justify the existence of the less racist sentiments.  They're all offensive, should be branded as such, and shunned by the general public.


----------



## RadishRose (May 7, 2019)

They sure are.

I just believe Kate Smith's song was meant to be satirical back in that age. No need to drag her through the mud now.

I wish it would all just go away.


----------



## rgp (May 7, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Isn't that the point that many are trying to make?  Racism is alive and well in this country - and on this planet - and should be deemed unacceptable whenever and wherever it exists.  Saying some songs, words, or actions are more racist than others doesn't justify the existence of the lesser racist sentiments.  They're all offensive, should be branded as such, and shunned by the general public.




For millennia of time people have not gotten along/been at peace with each other. Not just races/colors, but for many other "reasons" as well. The leader over the years being religion.

Hence, shields, bows & arrows , spears, lances, armor suits, rocks, hot tar & rocks poured over the wall, the great wall o f China, gun powder, guns, bombs, rockets, jets, tanks........get the picture ??

As such, I do not look for us to break out in versus of Kumbaya any time soon.

People have differences , currently color seems to be one. Next?....might be our planet versus ???


----------



## Keesha (May 7, 2019)

Sassycakes said:


> I just read the Lyrics to the song and I honestly don't believe it was meant to insult Black People. Especially when I read the last paragraph.
> 
> 
> Kate Smith​
> ...




WHAT???? :magnify: 
You don’t think THIS was meant to insult black people? 
WOW!!! I have four bi-racial nieces and nephews and I find it insulting. 
To keep punishing someone for mistakes they make decades earlier seems a bit senseless though. 
People make mistakes and at the time she probably didn’t intend it to be insulting. 
In today’s modern world, it’s viewed differently but still insulting all the same.


----------



## Beccaboo (May 7, 2019)

Pepper said:


> I'm not as pessimistic as you.  What do you mean when you say race war?


Pessimist No, a Realist Yes. Living in a world that is full of hatred. I am not speaking only of race, but of many other things as well sadly. I face these issues that this world has put in front of me and deal with them peacefully and Democratically how it was meant to be and not with hate and violence like we see so much today. That is all I can do and hope for the best.


----------



## Keesha (May 7, 2019)

I haven’t really been following this thread so don’t really know how it’s progressed but I think I’ll jump out and quickly as I jumped in. :hide:


----------



## AZ Jim (May 7, 2019)

What a bunch of unhappy people.....Will it ever end?


----------



## Beccaboo (May 7, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Isn't that the point that many are trying to make?  Racism is alive and well in this country - and on this planet - and should be deemed unacceptable whenever and wherever it exists.  Saying some songs, words, or actions are more racist than others doesn't justify the existence of the lesser racist sentiments.  They're all offensive, should be branded as such, and shunned by the general public.


My point was not to say that one song was worse than the other. My point was to say exactly the point you are making that racism is sadly alive and going strong today.


----------



## AZ Jim (May 7, 2019)

I love the song and the way Kate sang it.  The rest of this is rubbish.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 7, 2019)

I loved Kate, still do.  I have a bi racial granddaughter. She couldn’t care less about this song, and she wouldn’t know who Kate Smith is.


----------



## Shalimar (May 7, 2019)

Beccaboo said:


> My point was not to say that one song was worse than the other. My point was to say exactly the point you are making that racism is sadly alive and going strong today.


Absolutely.


----------



## Pepper (May 7, 2019)

Becca.  ​You forgot my question--What do you mean when you say race war?  I believe you said this twice.  Thanks.


----------



## fuzzybuddy (May 7, 2019)

We don't have "darkies" slaving in the fields anymore. But most of those, who claim racism in the US is dead, are Caucasian.


----------



## Beccaboo (May 7, 2019)

Pepper said:


> Becca.  ​You forgot my question--What do you mean when you say race war?  I believe you said this twice.  Thanks.


 Pepper, I think I tried to answer and maybe not that clearly. What I meant is the hate that is going on around the world in the name of race and also many other things.


----------



## StarSong (May 7, 2019)

Beccaboo said:


> My point was not to say that one song was worse than the other. My point was to say exactly the point you are making that racism is sadly alive and going strong today.



I apologize if I misunderstood your point.  Perhaps I'm a bit touchy because this entire subject is so disheartening.  It seemed as if the Baby Boomer generation was making progress in this area back in the 60s and 70s, but when I hear ugly remarks made by people my age and younger, I shake my head in disgust.  Don't get me started on the thinly veiled racism expressed by many of our politicians.  I feel sickened and embarrassed by their behavior and beliefs. 

Perhaps the lesson to be learned by the Yankees pulling of Kate Smith's recording should be that even if our contemporaries don't judge our insensitive actions harshly, future generations may well do so.


----------



## Beccaboo (May 7, 2019)

StarSong said:


> I apologize if I misunderstood your point.  Perhaps I'm a bit touchy because this entire subject is so disheartening.  It seemed as if the Baby Boomer generation was making progress in this area back in the 60s and 70s, but when I hear ugly remarks made by people my age and younger, I shake my head in disgust.  Don't get me started on the thinly veiled racism expressed by many of our politicians.  I feel sickened and embarrassed by their behavior and beliefs.
> 
> Perhaps the lesson to be learned by the Yankees pulling of Kate Smith's recording should be that even if our contemporaries don't judge our insensitive actions harshly, future generations may well do so.


 It is very disheartening. I was born in 1959 so throughout the 60's I was just a child, but throughout the 70's i became more aware of the issues and even as I have gotten older. Nowadays it seems and maybe I am wrong about this, but I feel it is worse than ever and it is because of Social Media and Media itself. I really don't want to discuss that as that is only my view on it and I will leave it at that.


----------



## Keesha (May 7, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Isn't that the point that many are trying to make?  Racism is alive and well in this country - and on this planet - and should be deemed unacceptable whenever and wherever it exists.  Saying some songs, words, or actions are more racist than others doesn't justify the existence of the less racist sentiments.  They're all offensive, should be branded as such, and shunned by the general public.





Beccaboo said:


> My point was not to say that one song was worse than the other. My point was to say exactly the point you are making that racism is sadly alive and going strong today.





Beccaboo said:


> It is very disheartening. I was born in 1959 so throughout the 60's I was just a child, but throughout the 70's i became more aware of the issues and even as I have gotten older. Nowadays it seems and maybe I am wrong about this, but I feel it is worse than ever and it is because of Social Media and Media itself. I really don't want to discuss that as that is only my view on it and I will leave it at that.





StarSong said:


> I apologize if I misunderstood your point.  Perhaps I'm a bit touchy because this entire subject is so disheartening.  It seemed as if the Baby Boomer generation was making progress in this area back in the 60s and 70s, but when I hear ugly remarks made by people my age and younger, I shake my head in disgust.  Don't get me started on the thinly veiled racism expressed by many of our politicians.  I feel sickened and embarrassed by their behavior and beliefs.
> 
> Perhaps the lesson to be learned by the Yankees pulling of Kate Smith's recording should be that even if our contemporaries don't judge our insensitive actions harshly, future generations may well do so.



I think you two summed this up really well, especially that last sentence. It’s so on point.


----------



## applecruncher (May 7, 2019)

Beccaboo said:


> It is very disheartening. I was born in 1959 so throughout the 60's I was just a child, but throughout the 70's i became more aware of the issues and even as I have gotten older. Nowadays it seems and maybe I am wrong about this, but I feel it is worse than ever and it is because of Social Media and Media itself. I really don't want to discuss that as that is only my view on it and I will leave it at that.



Racism is still a problem but it is NOT worse now than ever and it can't be blamed on the media.   Prior to Civil Rights movement in the 1960s it was legal to refuse service in a store/restaurant, housing, employment, and an education to blacks based solely on race.  In South Africa apartheid was in full force until it was abolished in 1994.  All that was way before social media.

Those are the facts. Easy to see why you don't want to discuss it - nothing to discuss. To blame racism on social media is silly. To


----------



## Sassycakes (May 7, 2019)

I just got an email from a friend of mine that she received from a group that wants to have all the movies like Goodfellas ,The Godfather and any movie depicting Italians being criminals banned. They also said "Why has there never been an Italian President in the USA. She said they said Italians were being unfairly judged. She is Italian and so am I and I asked her if she wanted to join. She laughed and said "Of course not." I was relieved and told her not even to respond to the group that sent it. This world is going crazy in my opinion.


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## Keesha (May 7, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> Racism is still a problem but it is NOT worse now than ever and it can't be blamed on the media.   Prior to Civil Rights movement in the 1960s it was legal to refuse service in a store/restaurant, housing, employment, and an education to blacks based solely on skin color.  In South Africa apartheid was in full force until it was abolished in 1994.  All that was way before social media.
> 
> Those are the facts.


And it wasn’t that long ago that black people HAD to sit at the back of the bus. I would not have done well as a black person in this era. I’d be one to break the law for sure. Things have come along way since then but racism is still alive and well.


----------



## fmdog44 (May 7, 2019)

I left Chicgo in 1979 to work in Pascagoula, Missisippi. There I encountered two members of the KKK in a bar I frequented and it gave me a perspective of how deep their convictions are regarding minorities and gays. One of the two I spoke with frequently but never about social issues as I dared never to go there. I was on thin ice being a yankee in Miss. Even the blacks I worked with were not overly joyed that a northerner was there taking someone's job. I will say the KKK are no less dedicated to their beliefs than any other citizens or groups anywhere in the world.


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## fmdog44 (May 8, 2019)

Sassycakes said:


> I just got an email from a friend of mine that she received from a group that wants to have all the movies like Goodfellas ,The Godfather and any movie depicting Italians being criminals banned. They also said "Why has there never been an Italian President in the USA. She said they said Italians were being unfairly judged. She is Italian and so am I and I asked her if she wanted to join. She laughed and said "Of course not." I was relieved and told her not even to respond to the group that sent it. This world is going crazy in my opinion.


Recall the mob boss Columbo that raised the issue of Italians being minorities. He thrusted this idea to the mainstream media which upset the mob bosses. He was shot to death on an outdoor stage as he prepared to address of crowd of Italians. I remember back then scratching my head thinking "Italian civil rights?"


----------



## Keesha (May 8, 2019)

When I was younger and discovered just how racist our world was, I became really upset. In grade 2 one afternoon after school I brought a girlfriend over to the house and my parents sent her home because she was German. 


In grade 3 or 4 , I became good friends with an east Indian girl and that wasn’t allowed either. Then in school when I learned it was a LAW that blacks had to sit at the back of a public bus yet had to pay the same amount , I was genuinely shocked and  started losing faith in humanity as a species. How could this be?


Even to this day I can’t wrap my head around the fact that we have ; satellites floating around in outer space, artificial  intelligence, the World Wide Web and other technology that is so far advanced it’s mind boggling, yet we still snub our noses at others who are different and harbour racism. It’s hard to believe we are the same people from the same era.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 8, 2019)

Keesha,

How soon after WWII was your German friend sent home? That wasn’t racism, racism is based on color of your skin.  It probably had something to do with the events of WWII, IMO.  The East Indian thing would have been racism.

I’ve noticed most people have to snub other people to make themselves feel better or superior.  The population that fat shames others, I’ve seen that on this forum to a certain extent.  The folks who blamed others for their medical problems because they don’t eat right or smoke, yup, that’s here as well.

Some of the older men on the forum who think their ****** references or jokes on discussions are welcomed and appreciated by everyone.  They aren’t.  In fact, such references and jokes simply make them look old and out of touch with today’s world.  People judge other people. I judge other people although I try hard not to.

I think we are moving, in a way, away from racism; and moving towards a world where if some one is the least bit different than we are, we condemn them.  If they are different, and a different color, than that simply increases the “hate” and makes it look race related instead of just pure prejudicial behavior.

On the flip side, if you dislike someone, let’s say because they don’t shower, and they are a different race it looks like racism, but it is not.  It such a complicated issue, it just can’t be solved.


----------



## Keesha (May 8, 2019)

I’m sorry Aneeda but I couldn’t disagree with you more on this. 


Racism IS the belief in the superiority of one race over another which causes discrimination and prejudice based on their race and ethnicity. 


THE USE OF THE TERM ‘racism’ DOES NOT EASILY  FALL UNDER A SINGLE DEFINITION.


Our world history is FULL of many examples of extreme institutional racism including the Holocaust, the Apartheid in South Africa, slavery around the world including Latin America & the segregation in North America.


----------



## Sassycakes (May 8, 2019)

Keesha said:


> When I was younger and discovered just how racist our world was, I became really upset. In grade 2 one afternoon after school I brought a girlfriend over to the house and my parents sent her home because she was German.
> 
> 
> In grade 3 or 4 , I became good friends with an east Indian girl and that wasn’t allowed either. Then in school when I learned it was a LAW that blacks had to sit at the back of a public bus yet had to pay the same amount , I was genuinely shocked and  started losing faith in humanity as a species. How could this be?
> ...




I was really lucky growing up,my parents weren't racist in anyway against anyone. Both of my parents had black friends and they often visited our house and we even went on vacations with them at times. We lived in the city and there were certain areas where certain nationalities lived in . The Irish didn't along well with the Italians. When I was dating my husband ,he is Irish and I am Italian,his Mom would always say "God save me from the Dagoes(sp) but not you Barbara".(my real name)I loved her soo much.


----------



## C'est Moi (May 8, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> Some of the older men on the forum who think their ****** references or jokes on discussions are welcomed and appreciated by everyone.  They aren’t.  In fact, such references and jokes simply make them look old and out of touch with today’s world.  People judge other people. I judge other people although I try hard not to.



Yes, indeed.   I found innuendo disgusting as a young woman, and find it even more disgusting now.


----------



## Keesha (May 8, 2019)

And it still has nothing to do with racism


----------



## applecruncher (May 8, 2019)

Keesha said:


> And it still has nothing to do with racism



True.  Some people have trouble focusing on the topic of a thread.  :shrug:


----------



## Geezerette (May 8, 2019)

"Yes but..." racism is one form of discrimination and sexism is another. sexism has been around as long as racism and I'm glad Aneeda called the old codgers on how their ****** innuendoes and jokes aren't appreciated, and C'est Moi agreed. Up to now Ive been ignoring it with a "consider the source" attitude, but from now on if they keep doing it Im going to call them on it. And Board Admins, it might be nice to see the cartoons and jokes cleaned up too.


----------



## AZ Jim (May 8, 2019)

Keesha said:


> And it wasn’t that long ago that black people HAD to sit at the back of the bus. I would not have done well as a black person in this era. I’d be one to break the law for sure. Things have come along way since then but racism is still alive and well.


God bless Rosa Parks who defied that law.  A hero and pioneer.


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## Keesha (May 8, 2019)

Geezerette said:


> "Yes but..." racism is one form of discrimination and sexism is another. sexism has been around as long as racism and I'm glad Aneeda called the old codgers on how their ****** innuendoes and jokes aren't appreciated, and C'est Moi agreed. Up to now Ive been ignoring it with a "consider the source" attitude, but from now on if they keep doing it Im going to call them on it. And Board Admins, it might be nice to see the cartoons and jokes cleaned up too.


Geezerette. If you really feel this strongly about these ****** innuendos and how you’d like administration to clean up the board of cartoons and jokes you dislike, then perhaps it would be best if you make a separate thread about it. 
THIS particular thread is about racism.


----------



## Keesha (May 8, 2019)

AZ Jim said:


> God bless Rosa Parks who defied that law.  A hero and pioneer.


Yes indeed. Bless her courageous heart. :clap:
Sometimes breaking the law pays off for others down the road.


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## norman (May 8, 2019)

Geezerette said:


> "Yes but..." racism is one form of discrimination and sexism is another. sexism has been around as long as racism and I'm glad Aneeda called the old codgers on how their ****** innuendoes and jokes aren't appreciated, and C'est Moi agreed. Up to now Ive been ignoring it with a "consider the source" attitude, but from now on if they keep doing it Im going to call them on it. And Board Admins, it might be nice to see the cartoons and jokes cleaned up too.


fftopic:  OLD CODGERS! now that is cold, maybe some should stay out of The Tap Room, and, and consider an apology  to the many respectable, considerate persons who use this site.  Just saying... but you can call me anything, just don't forget to call me for dinner......:lofl:


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## StarSong (May 9, 2019)

As a big fan of The Tap Room and someone who's inclined to make bawdy remarks here and there, not to mention double entendres when my brain is quick enough, I believe there is a big difference between ****** innuendos and sexism.  

Note to all the old codgers on this forum: if you won't stop the occasional suggestive jokes on my account, I won't stop them on yours!   

Note to anyone offended by those remarks: I sincerely apologize if I've said anything that has offended you.  My jokes are meant to be light-hearted and in the spirit of good fun.


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## applecruncher (May 9, 2019)

I agree with Keesha:  If someone is offended by (what they feel is) a ****** remark, they can report to admins and/or start their own thread.  This is not the place - topic of this thread is racism.


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## norman (May 9, 2019)

I will drink to that, of course I would drink to anything....:beerandwhistle:





StarSong said:


> As a big fan of The Tap Room and someone who's inclined to make bawdy remarks here and there, not to mention double entendres when my brain is quick enough, I believe there is a big difference between ****** innuendos and sexism.
> 
> Note to all the old codgers on this forum: if you won't stop the occasional suggestive jokes on my account, I won't stop them on yours!
> 
> Note to anyone offended by those remarks: I sincerely apologize if I've said anything that has offended you.  My jokes are meant to be light-hearted and in the spirit of good fun.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 9, 2019)

Keesha, 

Could you explain how much racism is in Canada?  Now and in the past?

I grew up with this issue.  My mother picked cotton in the fields of her uncle’s farm when she was 15 years old.  I think I mentioned this before.  She has white skin, she picked cotton along with people who had black skin and brown skin.  This would have been the 1930’s-1940’s.

She didn’t have to sit at the back of the bus.  She couldn't have sat at the front of the bus.  She walked.  No bus money.

I wouldn’t call my relatives in Texas racist then.  Then it was a way of life.  Over time the way of life changed and you changed with it or you didn’t.  If you changed with it, you aren’t racist.  If you didn’t, you are.  A simple explanation, but true.  But I know the story of the US.  I know the story of the British and African colonies. British and India colony.

What is the story of Canada on this subject?


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## norman (May 9, 2019)

I have Clairvoyant abilities and contacted Kate Smith from the spirit world last night,  she suggested that her body be exhumed and reburied with her ass facing upward and anyone who doesn't like her singing can kiss her ass.  She also said, yes it was racial and if  she was still alive, she would never use those words let alone sing them.  I then lost contact.  :yoda:


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## StarSong (May 9, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> Keesha,
> 
> Could you explain how much racism is in Canada?  Now and in the past?
> 
> ...



I don't have first-hand information about Canada's history of racism, but will comment on your other remarks.  Racism isn't contextual.  Just because it was widespread doesn't change what it was.          


From the Merriam-Webster site:
                                                                          [h=2]Definition of _racism_[/h]                                

                                                                                                                                                                1                                                                                                         *: *a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race                                                               

                                                  2a                                                                                                         *: *a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles                                                               
                                             b                                                                                                         *: *a political or social system founded on racism                                                               

                                                  3                                                                                                         *: *racial prejudice or discrimination


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## Sunny (May 9, 2019)

Norman, :rofl1:


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## Aneeda72 (May 9, 2019)

Star Song,

I don’t disagree.  I know the meaning of the word racism.  I also know that most people of one race or color are prejudice against other people of various races or colors.  It’s not a black/white issue now or then.  It amazes me that in the multi racial, multi nationality neighborhood I live in there are no problems at all.

The question is, did my grandmother, who grew up in the south ever know if her behavior was racist.  From the little time I spent with her, I don’t think she did.  It was a different world.  She grew up with a certain way of life, it was the life she knew, and she didn’t know any better.  

But my mother, who grew up in different circumstances, was not racist.  My dad was not racist.  To condemn past generations for their behaviors, IMO, silly.  They are dead.  Nothing is going to change their minds.  To condemn past generations for their behaviors when you have no direct knowledge of those behaviors, and the reasons for them, well.  Hmm.

What’s the point?


----------



## StarSong (May 9, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> Star Song,
> 
> I don’t disagree.  I know the meaning of the word racism.  I also know that most people of one race or color are prejudice against other people of various races or colors.  It’s not a black/white issue now or then.  It amazes me that in the multi racial, multi nationality neighborhood I live in there are no problems at all.
> 
> ...



Racist behavior is racist behavior, whether or not the perpetrator knows it is racist and whether or not he/she "knows better."    

Sorry - I don't buy your theory that most people are prejudice against people in other races.       

What's the point?  The point of condemning abhorrent behaviors of the past is to acknowledge them as such and to avoid seeing them repeated them in the future.


----------



## AZ Jim (May 9, 2019)

Keesha said:


> I’m sorry Aneeda but I couldn’t disagree with you more on this.
> 
> 
> Racism IS the belief in the superiority of one race over another which causes discrimination and prejudice based on their race and ethnicity.
> ...


There is a difference between race an nationality.  It was NOT racism.


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## Shalimar (May 9, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Racist behavior is racist behavior, whether or not the perpetrator knows it is racist and whether or not he/she "knows better."
> 
> Sorry - I don't buy your theory that most people are prejudice against people in other races.
> 
> What's the point?  The point of condemning abhorrent behaviors of the past is to acknowledge them as such and to avoid seeing them repeated them in the future.


Absolutely. Song would be banned in Canada. Also, anyone singing it in public would be charged under our hate speech laws.


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## Aneeda72 (May 9, 2019)

Shalimar,

I am interested in knowing more about racism in Canada in the 1930’s-1940’s.  Songs are not banned in the US.  When did these hate speech laws get passed in Canada?  I did not know that you had restricted speech.  That’s interesting.


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## Aneeda72 (May 9, 2019)

So I googled it, and seems Canada followed the same patterns as the US.  Canada had slaves.  Canadians had the same racism towards blacks, and, it seems Asians followed by racism towards others lesser groups.  Canadians of the day seemed to believe in the “superiority” of the white race as well.  Which is how the hate speech laws came to be passed eventually-might have mentioned this parallel history of Canada.  I had no ideal.

Seems all our grandparents and great grandparents were racists according to the viewpoints of certain people in this discussion.  No surprise since the British and French settled both places.  Seems the US had issues with its indigenous people and Canada had problems with their indigenous people.

So if my dear old American grandmother, was a racist, lol, prove your deal old canadian grandmother wasn’t.  In any event, it doesn’t really matter.  But it is terribly funny.


----------



## StarSong (May 9, 2019)

Your LOLs and what you find amusing strike me as nothing short of bizarre.  If my grandmother had been a racist I would be ashamed, embarrassed and regretful, not laughing about it because others might have been racist, as well.


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## Aunt Bea (May 9, 2019)

Both of my grandmothers could be considered racist but they were also strong, kind, caring women that I will always love and respect.

I agree that bad behavior, racism, sexism, etc... should be called out, discouraged, corrected but I don't believe in the current trend of attempting to destroy people or their legacy without taking a good look at their lives and the contributions that they have made.


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## Aneeda72 (May 9, 2019)

How do you know your grandmother wasn’t racist?  And remember my mother is 94 years old, my grandmother has been dead a long time.  I am not ashamed, embarrassed, or regretful of anything about her in connection to her southern belief system.

What I think is amusing, in case you missed it, is that Canadians commenting about my grandmother and not mentioning the history of racism in Canada.  Let’s all jump into the pool together on this.  And as far as I know, I am the only one living in a multi racial, multi culture, multi nationality neighborhood.

Is it the same for you?  Or do live in a white neighborhood? Just curious.


----------



## applecruncher (May 9, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Your LOLs and what you find amusing strike me as nothing short of bizarre.  If my grandmother had been a racist I would be ashamed, embarrassed and regretful, not laughing about it because others might have been racist, as well.



Yeah.  "lol" indeed.


----------



## StarSong (May 9, 2019)

What makes you think that you are the only one living in a diverse neighborhood?  

My grandparents were not racists.  If they had been, I would indeed be ashamed, embarrassed and regretful of their belief system, and would deeply hope that their racism didn't permanently damage the physical bodies or psyches of those whom they believed were less worthy - or of their descendants.


----------



## Shalimar (May 9, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Your LOLs and what you find amusing strike me as nothing short of bizarre.  If my grandmother had been a racist I would be ashamed, embarrassed and regretful, not laughing about it because others might have been racist, as well.


Agreed. Aneeda,  As it happens, my grandmother was not racist, she was godmother to two First Nations children. Canada has its history of racism, racism exists here today. We are working on it. Our govt has apologised to our indigenous people, as have our churches re past residential schools abuse. As for living in a diverse neighbourhood, here in multicultural Canada, that is the norm. I don’t understand what seems to be anger towards Canada/Canadians. I am under no obligation to prove anything, neither are you. Both our countries need work in the area of racism.


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## Aneeda72 (May 9, 2019)

StarSong,

I don’t remember saying I was the only one living in a diverse neighborhood, I remember asking if you live in a white neighborhood.  You haven’t answered.  Plus, how do you know your grandparents weren’t racist?  You haven’t answered.  It’s easy to proclaim I am not racist.  It’s easy to proclaim my grandparents were not racist.  Hard to prove.

And we haven’t even discussed the group known as poor white trash and how they fit into everything in those early years.  And the folks who rented land from the plantations, forgot what they were called.  The carpetbaggers who came after the civil war.  The south was so complicated.  But, it doesn’t matter.  We are talking about people born in the 1800’s.  

With all the problems these people faced, you want to play the shame blame game because they grew up in the south and had a certain way of life, and are not around to defend themselves.  While proclaiming, of course, your grandparents had no racist problems.  And you think my laughing is bizarre.  The whole thing is bizarre.

We have four sets of grandparents.  So how do you know?  Did any of them grow up in the south?  Have you done genealogy research?  If so, were any blacks counted on the census? This is history.  If you haven’t done the research, how do you know?  You don’t.  And neither does anyone else.

Trying to apply the social rules of 2019 to things that occurred in 1930-1940’s. Laughable.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 9, 2019)

Shalimar,

I am not angry at Canadians.  I am extremely grateful to Canadians for their continued support of our country throughout the decades.  They have also shown extreme bravery in defense of Americans.  I remember, vaguely, one embassy bombing where the Canadians hide our people and got them safely out.  Extraordinarily brave.

I agree both our countries have continued racial issues due to our common heritage.  But seems the thread was only talking about racism in the US which was frustrating.  I wanted to know if it existed in Canada, and the background of it there.  Finally had to google cause my questions were not answered.  So thank you for answering.

I never knew Canada had similar issues.  I just wanted information.  I have not called anyone grandparents racists or implied they should be ashamed of their heritage.


----------



## StarSong (May 9, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> How do you know your grandmother wasn’t racist?  And remember my mother is 94 years old, my grandmother has been dead a long time.  I am not ashamed, embarrassed, or regretful of anything about her in connection to her southern belief system.
> 
> What I think is amusing, in case you missed it, is that Canadians commenting about my grandmother and not mentioning the history of racism in Canada.  Let’s all jump into the pool together on this.  A*nd as far as I know, I am the only one living in a multi racial, multi culture, multi nationality neighborhood.
> *
> ...



I happen to live in a very diverse neighborhood in a very diverse city that's in a very diverse region.  

How do I know my grandparents weren't racist?  Because I knew my grandparents and saw them in numerous situations and heard how they spoke.  I also saw the people that they raised, i.e., my parents, who likewise weren't racist.  They had plenty of flaws, but that wasn't among them.  I only had two sets of grandparents.  My mother's parents and my father's parents.  All emigrated to the US during the period of 1890-1910 and none ever lived in the south.  

Sorry, but racism is indefensible, regardless of the time period.  Nothing amusing about it.  Plenty of white people took the moral high ground and risked or lost their lives because of their firm belief that slavery was an abomination.  

With that, I'm done with this discussion.


----------



## applecruncher (May 9, 2019)

@ Star Song

Los Angeles is about as diverse as it gets! Even Beverly Hills is diverse. :laugh:

I'm following you.  This thread just gets more bizarre.  nthego:


----------



## Gary O' (May 9, 2019)

StarSong said:


> As a big fan of The Tap Room and someone who's inclined to make bawdy remarks here and there, not to mention double entendres when my brain is quick enough, I believe there is a big difference between ****** innuendos and sexism.
> 
> Note to all the old codgers on this forum: if you won't stop the occasional suggestive jokes on my account, I won't stop them on yours!
> 
> Note to anyone offended by those remarks: I sincerely apologize if I've said anything that has offended you.  My jokes are meant to be light-hearted and in the spirit of good fun.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 9, 2019)

Well, that’s just sad, that StarSong left, I was about to take the moral high ground.  .  Ok, well, it’s there, I’ll take it.

One of my southern granddads was married to my southern grandmother, who I’ve been speaking about.  He was my father”s mother.  He fought, along with all the southern men, in WWI.  He died back home due to complications from wounds received in the war and a family inherited kidney disease.  He died young.

My grandmother received a pension due to his military service and death.  He was a disabled WWI war veteran.  A born and bred southerner, as the saying goes.  He fought and died, for the right of StarSong to imply that I should be ashamed, embarrassed, and, lol, whatever the third point, was of him.

I am extremely proud of this man, my grandfather, who gave his life for our freedom, and all the other southern men.  Was he a racist?  He was a white southern man.  I would guess he was a racist by today’s standards.  I would guess he was a racist by any standard.  So what?  He was so much more.  He died for all Americans.  He was an American patriot.  

The south was and is a complicated place.  I couldn’t hope to understand it even if I studied it, and I haven’t.  The moral high ground is this-giving your life for an ungrateful nation and an ungrateful people.  (Remember folks, my husband is a disabled Vietnam combat marine-talk about ungrateful).

Yup, some people should be ashamed and embarrassed.  I am not one of them.


----------



## Shalimar (May 9, 2019)

I think many southern men gave their lives “for an ungrateful nation and an ungrateful people” and many of them were people of colour.


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## Olivia (May 9, 2019)

Racism or discrimination or acceptance of any kind always comes down to individual choice in the here and now. No other way around it,


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## Aneeda72 (May 10, 2019)

Agreed.  Over 350,000 black men fought in WWI.  They also fought for the right to join the military, defend our country, and die in its defense.


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## Gary O' (May 10, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> .......as far as I know, I am the only one living in a multi racial, multi culture, multi nationality neighborhood.
> 
> Is it the same for you?  Or do live in a white neighborhood? Just curious.



Guess I could say I live in a ‘white neighborhood’
Neighbors here are a bit spread out, like miles apart, but, yeah, white

Renegade white
Redneck white
Hermit white

Most here don’t get along in today’s society

I get along with most out here because I keep my mouth shut when they spout off

I’ve lived in the southern states, in multi race neighborhoods
I prefer it
We were all civil with each other, had cook outs, watched out for each other 

Out here, one best be armed


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 10, 2019)

Thanks Gary O’,

I was hoping for the response you gave.  Multi racial neighborhoods are the same as any neighborhood.  You get along, you socialize, you make friends, just like you would in any other neighborhood.  Course, often you have the odd strange person which everyone knows about.  Strange no one called me out on asking about who lived in white neighborhoods, and why does it matter.  It doesn’t.

It’s outside a neighborhood where danger increases no matter what the color of those involved.

In today’s world most everywhere is diverse, which is why racism seems so strange, and racists so unwanted.  I suppose the haters need to hate and their voice remains louder than the voices of reason.  Sad.


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## norman (May 10, 2019)

By standards set by the general public at that time in history, my one set of grandparents were racist per se, but they lived and let live. They were from what is considered a southern state.  It was society in general that formed their behavior. It was on a visit to Virigina when I was very young we ate at a restaurant and only white people were inside and the black people were outside sitting on ground or roadway and I remember a white man cussing at a black man for talking to his child and I never forgot that day.  As society becomes educated racialism is slowly disappearing.  As time goes by so slowly that we as a race of humans will not even be aware, everyone will be brown and no one will remenber Kate Smith being banned by the Yankees.


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## Aneeda72 (May 10, 2019)

Norman,

I offered a little test on my post #24 which no one answered, and you have kind of.  The difference between the white men stepping off the sidewalk and the black men stepping off the sidewalk.  The white men looked at us, tipped their hats to us, and said something.  The black men kept their eyes down and passed us without comment.

I too never forgot that day in Texas, and a couple of similar days.  It makes my point, and thanks for your post.  The south had rules.  Everyone knew their place.  Most followed the rules.  If you followed the rules, then no problems.  That black man, who spoke to that child, was fortunate he only got cussed out.  Was the child male?  I would assume he was.

But it was the same for the whites, if they broke the rules they were cussed or worst as well.


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## Trade (May 10, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> And as far as I know, I am the only one living in a multi racial, multi culture, multi nationality neighborhood.
> 
> Is it the same for you?  Or do live in a white neighborhood? Just curious.



I just counted it up and there are 18 houses on my block. Black people live in three of them. No Asians or Hispanics. 

I know that's not a lot of diversity, but I think it's enough to cover me.  

:tongue:


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## Trade (May 10, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, I am not 100 per cent white, but Trade, my white is whiter than your white because I am mostly Irish, and Irish is really really white.  I also have a touch of German and a sprinkle of American Indian.  The American Indian makes me more entitled to this piece of Mother Earth we call the United States.
> 
> I am sharing my piece of Mother Earth with anyone who wants a piece.  All are welcome here, I can not wait for the “browning of America” to be complete so we can quit have these nonsensical discussions about the color of one’s skin.




So on the one hand you are "whiter" than me because you are part Irish? 

And on the other hand you are "browner" than me because you are part native American?

Here's a news flash for you. You can't have it both ways. 

Oh, and by the way, that 1% Native American that you got on your DNA test? 

You don't get diversity points for that. 

That 1 % rounds down to zero. 

:tongue:


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## Trade (May 10, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> I have a bi racial granddaughter.



You don't get diversity points for that. My wife is biracial. I don't get any diversity for that either. 

:tongue:


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## norman (May 10, 2019)

You are correct..





Aneeda72 said:


> Norman,
> 
> I offered a little test on my post #24 which no one answered, and you have kind of.  The difference between the white men stepping off the sidewalk and the black men stepping off the sidewalk.  The white men looked at us, tipped their hats to us, and said something.  The black men kept their eyes down and passed us without comment.
> 
> ...


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## Sunny (May 10, 2019)

> The south had rules.  Everyone knew their place.  Most followed the rules.  If you followed the rules, then no problems.



Aneeda, that's got to be the most naive statement that's ever been made on this forum. (Naive, or disingenuous, not sure which.)  Do you really believe that any black person who followed "the rules" had no problems? All those lynchings were the fault of the rule-breakers?


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## Pepper (May 10, 2019)

Missed that post.  Thank you Sunny.  C'mon Aneeda, you know truth when you see it.


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## Aneeda72 (May 10, 2019)

Trade,

Get therapy.  Your posts #72 and #76.


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## Aneeda72 (May 10, 2019)

Lynchings?  What time period are we taking about now?  What specific lynchings are you taking about?  Or are you just talking about lynchings in general cause you saw lynchings happen in a movie so you know about lynchings.  Or you researched lynchings?  Or are you talking about lynchings that happened in the free states to, you know, white people.

Or lynchings that happened to black people  and white people in the south.  Do you even know what you are talking about?  How about American Indian lynchings?  Or the Hispanic lynchings?  Actually if you stole a horse in any state during certain time periods-you were lynched.

I guess if you were white and stole a horse, then you were a horse thief, but if you were black and stole a horse, and were hung, it was a racist act on the part of whoever hung you.  You guys are getting more bizarre all the time.


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## Babs (May 10, 2019)

Boy oh Boy, talk about a diverse spectrum of topics. Going from one thing to another. This thread started out about a singer and a baseball club banning her from singing "God Bless America" at there games for singing a racist song to lynching.  Wow.


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## fmdog44 (May 10, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> If you spend your time looking for racism, you're sure to find it.   In ALL races.


Excellent point!!!!


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## Trade (May 10, 2019)

Sunny said:


> Aneeda, that's got to be the most naive statement that's ever been made on this forum. (Naive, or disingenuous, not sure which.)  Do you really believe that any black person who followed "the rules" had no problems? All those lynchings were the fault of the rule-breakers?



I'll second that!


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## Trade (May 10, 2019)

Aneeda72 said:


> Trade,
> 
> Get therapy.



:tongue:


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## RadishRose (May 10, 2019)

Babs said:


> Boy oh Boy, talk about a diverse spectrum of topics. Going from one thing to another. This thread started out about a singer and a baseball club banning her from singing "God Bless America" at there games for singing a racist song to lynching.  Wow.



No kidding! And the song wasn't even "racist" in that sense. It was a *satire* of racism, and a famous black man also sang it in the same year. People would just rather talk about all aspects of racism, I guess.


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## Pepper (May 10, 2019)

Unless you can quote the song's composers calling it that, I do not see the satire.  Hardly Mark Twain's league.


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## Babs (May 10, 2019)

RadishRose said:


> No kidding! And the song wasn't even "racist" in that sense. It was a *satire* of racism, and a famous black man also sang it in the same year. People would just rather talk about all aspects of racism, I guess.


 Well, I am not one who enjoys talking about such subjects as things usually lead to debates and sometimes even things being taken out of context so I will just leave it at that.


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## AZ Jim (May 10, 2019)

38 homes on our long block here.  Two black families. We mind our own business and have no problems.


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## Aneeda72 (May 10, 2019)

Yes, from a song to lynchings,  it is still really interesting.  After all, we are investigating history.  History is interesting.  

I actually don’t know much about lynchings.  Pretty sure grandma didn’t even.  Have no ideal about granddad, but since he was wounded and died, doubt he strolled down to any. I found the subject of lynchings interesting.  Why were there so many lynchings?  Pepper and Sunny seem to imply that it was due to racism only, and only blacks were lynched.  Not true.

But, as I keep saying, the south was complicated. Well, I can google and I can read.  But I have a hand tremor, hard to write; and a bad memory.  For those of you interested in this subject, especially Pepper and Sunny, who threw the subject out with apparently no research, I suggest you read the Wikipedia explanation-just plug in Lynchings in the United States.

Read the paper folks, extremely interesting.  Racism was certainly a factor in what happened.   Also white supremacy (hmm, as in someone who mentioned being 100% white and so very proud to be so.) had a strong role.  It seems 4 million blacks (the number seems high so my figure could be wrong, feel free to correct me) were freed.

What happens to an economy that depends on millions of workers when those workers are freed?  It collapses.  The paper list economic issues as one of the main factors and stressors.  The lynchings due to black-white woman issues, the growth of white supremacy, the fall in the price of cotton, racism, and in some cases when a black man was more successful than a white man, the black man was lynched and his business destroyed.  Also, lynchings increased when it was time to vote.

Some statistics, but there were lots.

Mexicans lynched 1848-1928. At a rate of 27.4 per 100,000 of the population 1880-1930.

Blacks lynched 37.1 per 100,000

1848-1879 Mexicans lynched 473 per 100,000

1891 11 Italian immigrants were lynched.  One of the largest lynchings in the US.

The report says between 1830-1850’s the majority of those lynched were white.

Men, woman, and children were lynched.  I mentioned a few races but Chinese and East Indian immigrants were lynched.  Most of the statistics I mentioned were in the south.  A lot were in Florida which strikes me as odd for some reason.  But, of course, there were lynchings throughout the United States for a variety of reasons.

And lynchings still occur.  As to the point Pepper and Sunny want to make about lynchings, guys what was that point?  That they happened?  Yes, they did.


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