# CDC Confirms That Viral Loads In Vaccinated People With Delta May Be Infectious, So Masks Are Necessary



## Becky1951 (Jul 28, 2021)

The Centers for Disease Control reversed course Monday and said it now recommends indoor masks for the vaccinated in all areas of the country where COVID infections are surging. CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky cited unpublished data from recent days suggesting that vaccinated people may be able to spread the Delta variant just as easily as unvaccinated people.

We're back in a phase of constantly shifting information and data — and just last week we had experts casting doubt on whether vaccinated and mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic cases should be counted as "breakthrough" cases, and others casting doubt on whether vaccinated people could spread the virus easily.

But as was expected, the CDC changed its tune about masking on Tuesday, recommending that vaccinated people resume wearing masks in crowded indoor settings. And, it should be noted, that while outdoor gatherings are still being considered safe, some experts are also now casting doubt on whether that's still true with the Delta variant. Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding, one of the world's leading epidemiologists, pointed to some recent outdoor "fleeting" transmission cases in Australia that appeared to happen without any close contact between individuals.

As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly "indistinguishable" from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected. The increased viral load associated with the Delta variant appears to make vaccinated people equal spreaders of the virus. Walensky said that the data was "concerning enough that we feel like we have to act."

Infections in vaccinated people are still vastly less severe than those among the unvaccinated, and the overwhelming number of hospitalizations and deaths are happening among the unvaccinated. But new evidence is enough to make the vaccinated feel less secure about what happens if they're exposed to the Delta variant.

Last week, UCSF infectious disease expert Dr. Monica Gandhi tried to quell fears about infections in the vaccinated population, saying that some of these mild and asymptomatic cases could be turning up "dead viral particles in your nose" that trigger positive tests. And she questioned whether those cases are as worrisome or as noteworthy, public-health-wise, as those in unvaccinated people.

Gandhi also previously cautioned that the renewed hysteria among epidemiologists was reminiscent of the AIDS pandemic, and it took time to come up with mitigation measures that were less driven by panic. "The way that scientists are talking now was how scientists were talking at the beginning of the HIV epidemic," Gandhi said speaking to Slate. "It took some time, and everyone was scared and screaming, just like we are now, at the beginning of the HIV epidemic." *

Gandhi contributed to this piece today in the Washington Post, trying to parse the yo-yo guidance. "To get through this next stage of the pandemic as safely as possible, we’ll need to know when we can lift restrictions without sparking new surges. Fortunately, if we pay attention to some key metrics, we can figure that out," the authors write. They add that new mask guidance is about returning to an "acceptable" level of hospitalization and death, similar to the seasonal flu. "All pandemics end," Gandhi and her colleagues say. "The question is, how do we know when they do? These metrics will help us know when to begin to lift restrictions and get on track to a new normal."

So, again, we're in a place of wondering who to believe.

Speaking at a White House press conference today, Press Secretary Jen Psaki said that CDC continues doing what it is is supposed to do as data and the need for new guidance changes. "That is their job," she said. "Their job is to look at evolving information, evolving data, an evolving historic pandemic and provide guidance to the American public." She reiterated that being vaccinated remains the best protection against the virus.

As for whether San Francisco is considered a high-transmission area by the CDC right now, it is. According to the CDC's tracker, Alameda, Contra Costa, San Francisco and Solano counties are all areas of high transmission, while the rest of the Bay Area is in the "substantial transmission" category.

One more worry: For the last two days on Twitter, Dr. Feigl-Ding has been stressing studies out of England that suggest that COVID-19 infections appear to cause cognitive declines even among those who have mild or even asymptomatic cases — though the cognitive declines were sharper among those who were hospitalized with severe cases.

"Folks — gonna level with you — I would not want this for myself or anyone I know," Feigl-Ding said. "Death is not the only bad outcome of #COVID19 — even if we survive, there are huge chronic consequences... Avoid infection not just hospitalization!"

Furthermore, in today's new CDC guidance, they are now recommending masks for all teachers, staff, students, and visitors to schools, regardless of vaccination status.

https://sfist.com/2021/07/27/cdc-co...elta-are-indistinguishable-from-unvaccinated/


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## chic (Jul 28, 2021)

Keep everyone so afraid forever that they will then comply with anything.


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## Paco Dennis (Jul 28, 2021)

"People get ready, there's a train a comin'" You either move out of the way ( wear a mask ) or reap what you sow. This is a tsunami in the making, world wide. 

"A reed that does not bend in the wind will break". The stubbornness of not getting vaccinated will have dire consequences.


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## chic (Jul 28, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> "People get ready, there's a train a comin'" You either move out of the way ( wear a mask ) or reap what you sow. This is a tsunami in the making, world wide.
> 
> "A reed that does not bend in the wind will break". The stubbornness of not getting vaccinated will have dire consequences.


What happens to people who cannot be fully vaccinated due to medical conditions? Do we erect concentration camps for such? What about natives in the Amazon rain forest? How will they be vaccinated or people in third world countries without the financial resources to vaccinate an entire population? 

Mass vaccination is not even practical. And why aren't we tripping over the corpses of America's homeless population on a daily basis? We're not. And that is a fact.

Respectfully, your post sounds like a lot of fear mongering.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 28, 2021)

The only thing I'm seeing/hearing is that the delta variant drops off pretty quick. My thing is with flu, mediocre vax and efficacy rates they seem to cycle through society most seasons without mutating. Yes people pass of flu related symptoms but it goes through society and seems to be over with or manageable.

Meaning they probably over managed covid which allowed to linger and/or mutate. If a natural mutation is what happened. Did something else 'escape'  and was here all along.


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## Brookswood (Jul 28, 2021)

As a person who did all the right things (stayed at home, avoided crowds if I neede to go out, canceled family plans, tried to live life with a bubble of safe people, did outside grocery pickup, wore a mask, and got vaccinated) I am beginning to resent what is going on.

First, it's time for the government to realize that corona virus will be with us for many years. Thus it is no longer an emergency, but a public health issue that must be managed like the flu, measles, whooping cough, etc.

Second, it's hard to see how this new recommendation is fair to those who have been vaccinated and done all the right things for a year and a half.

Masks, social distancing etc. were supposed to be temporary measures until a vaccine  or an easy simple medical treatment could be found to prevent the serious effects of the disease. Do you remember *two weeks to crush the curve*? We now have a way to greatly limit the worst effects of this disease. People who have taken advantage of it should not be punished. Will the anti-vaccine crowd change their minds when they see their friends and families masked up? Will those who willfully mislead others stop? Will foreign agents who sow mistrust and suspicion on social media to divide our country take a break? No, no, and no.

The only exceptions to above are those who through no fault of their own can't get vaccinated or the vaccine does not work well for them; such as  those with serious comorbidities, impaired immune systems and *possibly* children under 12.    I will gladly wear a mask  to help take care around them.

But, the rest of the non immunized?    They invited the monkey to climb on their backs.  It's not my monkey. And it's not my zoo.  I have no ill will towards these people.  But, now it's all on them. Good luck.


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## chic (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> As a person who did all the right things (stayed at home, avoided crowds if I neede to go out, canceled family plans, tried to live life with a bubble of safe people, did outside grocery pickup, wore a mask, and got vaccinated) I am begging to resent what is going on.
> 
> First, it's time for the government to realize that corona virus will be with us for many years. Thus it is no longer an emergency, but a public health issue that must be managed like the flu, measles, whooping cough, etc.
> 
> ...


I remember that also. I remember "Four weeks to flatten the curve." No one mentions this anymore a year and a half later....

But I do not blame anyone for their choices during this unparalleled time.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> As a person who did all the right things (stayed at home, avoided crowds if I neede to go out, canceled family plans, tried to live life with a bubble of safe people, did outside grocery pickup, wore a mask, and got vaccinated) I am beginning to resent what is going on.
> 
> First, it's time for the government to realize that corona virus will be with us for many years. Thus it is no longer an emergency, but a public health issue that must be managed like the flu, measles, whooping cough, etc.
> 
> ...


It's not just the unvaccinated spreading Covid, the vaccinated are too. The vaccine isn't the bullet proof vest it was thought to be anymore. Vaccinated people are being hospitalized and dying also. 

I agree it doesn't seem fair that vaccinated people now have to wear masks, but if they can spread it and cause serious and possibly death to others, vaccinated or not, then it's the sensible thing to do.


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## Brookswood (Jul 28, 2021)

chic said:


> But I do not blame anyone for their choices during this unparalleled time.


I don't blame them.  I simply do not want to pay the price for their choice.  If they're right or lucky or whatever they will be fine. Great!  If they're wrong or unlucky or whatever they may get very sick, perhaps die. Very sad.  It's on them.  Just leave me out of it.


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## fmdog44 (Jul 28, 2021)

I wear my mask everywhere and get reinforcement with that idea every day I watch the news. I think if hospitals would demand payment up front many of the disillusioned fools would get the shot because few can afford to pay bills for extended hospital stays much less intensive care.


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## win231 (Jul 28, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> "People get ready, there's a train a comin'" You either move out of the way ( wear a mask ) or reap what you sow. This is a tsunami in the making, world wide.
> 
> "A reed that does not bend in the wind will break". The stubbornness of not getting vaccinated will have dire consequences.


^^^ Programming works - for those who don't mind being robots.


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## Brookswood (Jul 28, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It's not just the unvaccinated spreading Covid, the vaccinated are too. The vaccine isn't the bullet proof vest it was thought to be anymore. Vaccinated people are being hospitalized and dying also.
> 
> I agree it doesn't seem fair that vaccinated people now have to wear masks, but if they can spread it and cause serious and possibly death to others, vaccinated or not, then it's the sensible thing to do.


I take issue with your rather negative view on the vaccines.  Nobody I know has ever considered the vaccine a bullet proof vest. That is a _straw man_ argument.  

While they are not perfect, the vaccines are still very highly effective in preventing serous illness and death.  It is highly unlikely that a vaccinated person will pass on the virus to another vaccinated person and that other person will get seriously ill, and even less likely they will die.   Vaccines are not perfect but nothing is.    Never let perfection become the enemy of the good.

Besides *I am not talking about vaccinated people*, but those who are _willfully not vaccinated_. I am being asked to take actions to protect people who won't take action to protect themselves. And this is after I have spent well over a year limiting my own life to protect myself and others. Now I am supposed to enable what is a poor decision on their part? Enough!


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## chic (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> I take issue with your rather negative view on the vaccines.  Nobody I know has ever considered the vaccine a bullet proof vest. That is a _straw man_ argument.
> 
> While they are not perfect, the vaccines are still very highly effective in preventing serous illness and death.  It is highly unlikely that a vaccinated person will pass on the virus to another vaccinated person and that other person will get seriously ill, and even less likely they will die.   Vaccines are not perfect but nothing is.    Never let perfection become the enemy of the good.
> 
> Besides *I am not talking about vaccinated people*, but those who are _willfully not vaccinated_. I am being asked to take actions to protect people who won't take action to protect themselves. And this is after I have spent well over a year limiting my own life to protect myself and others. Now I am supposed to enable what is a poor decision on their part? Enough!


But some people are "willfully not vaccinated" because it would be physically dangerous for them to receive the vaccine, yet they are tarred with the same brush by the vaccinated. It's all the fault of the unvaccinated! It isn't. I think this vaccine is a fail and no one has the courage to admit this and fix the problem before proceeding to vaccinate the world's population which is what vaccinated people want.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> I take issue with your rather negative view on the vaccines.  Nobody I know has ever considered the vaccine a bullet proof vest. That is a _straw man_ argument.
> 
> While they are not perfect, the vaccines are still very highly effective in preventing serous illness and death.  It is highly unlikely that a vaccinated person will pass on the virus to another vaccinated person and that other person will get seriously ill, and even less likely they will die.   Vaccines are not perfect but nothing is.    Never let perfection become the enemy of the good.
> 
> Besides *I am not talking about vaccinated people*, but those who are _willfully not vaccinated_. I am being asked to take actions to protect people who won't take action to protect themselves. And this is after I have spent well over a year limiting my own life to protect myself and others. Now I am supposed to enable what is a poor decision on their part? Enough!


A lot of people felt that being vaccinated gave them a type of shield against being infected. Given the statistics of effectiveness of the vaccine.  Now even the vaccinated are being infected, in Tennessee alone there were 127 fully vaccinated who had the virus bad enough to be hospitalized and 27 of them died.  

And today I read that 370 breakthrough cases and 3 more deaths of fully vaccinated in Nashville TN.

https://fox17.com/news/local/3-deaths-among-davidson-countys-370-breakthrough-covid-19-cases-metro-health-coronavirus-tennessee-nashville-vaccination

That's just one state so far, there have been others. Numbers may be small yet, but they are adding up.   

I believe its a personal choice, vaccinate or not.  But I hope vaccinated realize they are also in danger of being infected and not assume they are fully protected.


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## oldman (Jul 28, 2021)

So, let me be clear on this subject. The CDC, who is now walking back on their original opinion of no masks needed if fully vaccinated, but now wants us to start wearing masks, even if we are fully vaccinated. So, does that mean the vaccines are not working? It wasn't too long ago that the CDC said we could stop wearing a mask if we were fully vaccinated as did the Cleveland Clinic, which also stated that natural immunity is better than vaccines. Well, I had both, COVID and the vaccines and my doctors told me that I cannot again be infected and I cannot carry the Virus and infect someone else. Who to believe? This all sounds again familiar and political and is being used to control us. They (the government) say "Jump" and we say "How high?" 

I give up.


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## oldman (Jul 28, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> A lot of people felt that being vaccinated gave them a type of shield against being infected. Given the statistics of effectiveness of the vaccine.  Now even the vaccinated are being infected, in Tennessee alone there were 127 fully vaccinated who had the virus bad enough to be hospitalized and 27 of them died.
> 
> And today I read that 370 breakthrough cases and 3 more deaths of fully vaccinated in Nashville TN.
> 
> ...


BTW, isn't Tennessee one of the states where a large amount of illegals were sent? The illegals walking into our country are untested and unvaccinated. Gee, do you think maybe, just maybe, these people are spreading the Virus?


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## JonDouglas (Jul 28, 2021)

Who's spreading more delta, vaccinated or unvaccinated?  I read that in Israel, it's the former.  If true, wouldn't that be ironic.

Edit Note:  WebMD:  J&J: Vaccine Protection Against Delta Variant Is Strong


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## oldman (Jul 28, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Who's spreading more delta, vaccinated or unvaccinated?  I read that in Israel, it's the latter.  If true, wouldn't that be ironic.


I really am having a hard time understanding why the U.S. is allowing the free-flowing of illegals into our country without being tested or vaccinated and then transporting these illegals to other states in masses. Now, over 1.5 million have entered illegally and yet not one single politician has done anything to stop the surge at the border. Didn't we elect these bums to protect us as part of their job? What in the name God is going on here? Have we all gone nuts?


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## Brookswood (Jul 28, 2021)

chic said:


> But some people are "willfully not vaccinated" because it would be physically dangerous for them to receive the vaccine, yet they are tarred with the same brush by the vaccinated. It's all the fault of the unvaccinated! It isn't. I think this vaccine is a fail and no one has the courage to admit this and fix the problem before proceeding to vaccinate the world's population which is what vaccinated people want.


If you read my entire message I carved out exceptions for people who have valid medical reasons for not being vaccinated.  I am sorry if I did not make that clear enough when I wrote this:

"The only exceptions to above are those who through no fault of their own can't get vaccinated or the vaccine does not work well for them; such as  those with serious comorbidities, impaired immune systems and *possibly* children under 12."

As far as the vaccine being a 'fail' I will have to disagree with you. The statistics show it is an overwhelming success. Perfect? No. A huge success for most people? Yes. 

A relative works in a local hospital Covid ward. Before the vaccine they had to open additional wards to handle the patient load.   Today the load is much much lower and I believe they only have one Covid ward open at the most with room for other patients if needed. The drop in Covid patients started in February after the vaccine started to become generally available to older folks and has continued to be far lower than before vaccinations became available.     Well over 90% of people currently in my county's Covid wards are non vaccinated people, yet they make up less than half of the age 18+ population.   Vaccinated people rarely end up in the hospital even though they are a majority in my county. That does not sound like a 'fail' to me.


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## Brookswood (Jul 28, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Who's spreading more delta, vaccinated or unvaccinated?  I read that in Israel, it's the former.  If true, wouldn't that be ironic.
> 
> Edit Note:  WebMD:  J&J: Vaccine Protection Against Delta Variant Is Strong



Since you posted it, why not provide information that proves it true of false?  Inquiring minds would love to see it.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 28, 2021)

oldman said:


> BTW, isn't Tennessee one of the states where a large amount of illegals were sent? The illegals walking into our country are untested and unvaccinated. Gee, do you think maybe, just maybe, these people are spreading the Virus?


I have no idea where illegals were sent, but we can't blame everything on illegals.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 28, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Who's spreading more delta, vaccinated or unvaccinated?  I read that in Israel, it's the former.  If true, wouldn't that be ironic.
> 
> Edit Note:  WebMD:  J&J: Vaccine Protection Against Delta Variant Is Strong


 Good question.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> Since you posted it, why not provide information that proves it true of false?  Inquiring minds would love to see it.


Maybe it can't be proved true or false *yet*, so does that mean it should be ignored? 

A lot of things were ignored at the beginning of this pandemic and look where it got us.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 28, 2021)

I think when it comes to considering information regarding Covid, its better to have an open mind to *all* information available.

Sticking ones head in the sand is never good because that leaves your a** up in the air ready to be kicked.


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## Brookswood (Jul 28, 2021)

oldman said:


> I really am having a hard time understanding why the U.S. is allowing the free-flowing of illegals into our country without being tested or vaccinated and then transporting these illegals to other states in masses. Now, over 1.5 million have entered illegally and yet not one single politician has done anything to stop the surge at the border. Didn't we elect these bums to protect us as part of their job? What in the name God is going on here? Have we all gone nuts?





Becky1951 said:


> I have no idea where illegals were sent, but we can't blame everything on illegals.


I think the writer is wondering why an American citizen flying into his home country needs a passport and a negative Covid test, but people sneaking across the Southern boarder  seem to get a pass on these requirements.  But, it;s a valid concern. The same government that wants us all to get vaccinated, somehow ignores the huge gap in Covid testing and vaccination on the Southern boarder.   Not so good.


Becky1951 said:


> A lot of people felt that being vaccinated gave them a type of shield against being infected. Given the statistics of effectiveness of the vaccine.  Now even the vaccinated are being infected, in Tennessee alone there were 127 fully vaccinated who had the virus bad enough to be hospitalized and 27 of them died.
> 
> And today I read that 370 breakthrough cases and 3 more deaths of fully vaccinated in Nashville TN.


While the vaccines are very effective they are not perfect protection. Of course, neither are the seat belts in my car, but I still wear them.   Never let the perfect become the enemy of the good.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> Since you posted it, why not provide information that proves it true of false?  Inquiring minds would love to see it.


The initial source that got me digging into this was an NBC report that was later pulled (i.e., censored).  It probably exists in the archives and will try to find it.  Beyond that, like the media, I sometimes get information from contacts and other sources who cannot be named lest they stop keeping me informed (and perhaps lose their jobs).

Edit Note 1:  This was in the archives.  Am now looking for the Israeli data.

“CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said recent studies had shown that those vaccinated individuals who do become infected with Covid have just as much viral load as the unvaccinated, making it possible for them to spread the virus to others.” – NBC. pic.twitter.com/xhlmqRPKxN​


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## Becky1951 (Jul 28, 2021)

Another state reporting.  ​​159 Dead, 593 Hospitalized in Illinois Breakthrough COVID Cases​More than 150 people have died and nearly 600 have been hospitalized in Illinois due to COVID-19 in "breakthrough" cases after they were fully vaccinated, according to state health officials.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/cor...in-illinois-breakthrough-covid-cases/2560611/


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## win231 (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> I take issue with your rather negative view on the vaccines.  Nobody I know has ever considered the vaccine a bullet proof vest. That is a _straw man_ argument.
> 
> While they are not perfect, the vaccines are still very highly effective in preventing serous illness and death.  It is highly unlikely that a vaccinated person will pass on the virus to another vaccinated person and that other person will get seriously ill, and even less likely they will die.   Vaccines are not perfect but nothing is.    Never let perfection become the enemy of the good.
> 
> Besides *I am not talking about vaccinated people*, but those who are _willfully not vaccinated_. I am being asked to take actions to protect people who won't take action to protect themselves. And this is after I have spent well over a year limiting my own life to protect myself and others. Now I am supposed to enable what is a poor decision on their part? Enough!


When have you taken TB tests to protect others before leaving your house & infecting others?  Tuberculosis is airborne & very contagious.


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## Brookswood (Jul 28, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Maybe it can't be proved true or false *yet*, so does that mean it should be ignored?
> 
> A lot of things were ignored at the beginning of this pandemic and look where it got us.


Ignored? No.       But, it does mean people should have a healthy skepticism.  

Nice try. But, I want to see some proof. Show me proof that the vaccinated are "spreading more delta".


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## win231 (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> I don't blame them.  I simply do not want to pay the price for their choice.  If they're right or lucky or whatever they will be fine. Great!  If they're wrong or unlucky or whatever they may get very sick, perhaps die. Very sad.  It's on them.  Just leave me out of it.


You are playing the typical blame game; plus you need to feel superior.  No one has the right to make health decisions for others.
If you believe your vaccine protects you, it wouldn't matter to you if others were not vaccinated.  Your concern for others who are not vaccinated indicates your lack of confidence in the vaccine.
If you believe your vaccine doesn't protect you from others who are not vaccinated, stay home; that way you'll be really safe.


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## Brookswood (Jul 28, 2021)

win231 said:


> When have you taken TB tests to protect others before leaving your house & infecting others?  Tuberculosis is airborne & very contagious.


Come now. Ask a question that makes sense.


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## win231 (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> Come now. Ask a question that makes


Ironic that you left out the word _"Sense."_
And, no reply?  Don't have one?


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## Della (Jul 28, 2021)

chic said:


> What happens to people who cannot be fully vaccinated due to medical conditions? Do we erect concentration camps for such? What about natives in the Amazon rain forest? How will they be vaccinated or people in third world countries without the financial resources to vaccinate an entire population?
> 
> Mass vaccination is not even practical. And why aren't we tripping over the corpses of America's homeless population on a daily basis? We're not. And that is a fact.
> 
> Respectfully, your post sounds like a lot of fear mongering.


Respectfully, I think _your_ post sounds like fear mongering.  Not one single person has been forced to be vaccinated and there's no reason to think that if it does come to that there wouldn't be plenty of exceptions made to the people with special medical conditions, or that non compliance would result in concentration camps (seriously?) At worst  it would probably mean fines or not being allowed inside certain public buildings.  As for  the people in the Amazon rain forest, they would be safe and not carriers.  We managed to wipe out small pox without vaccinating them.  

BTW, All those beautiful young super models you use to portray yourself have probably all been vaccinated, they travel a lot.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> Ignored? No.       But, it does mean people should have a healthy skepticism.
> 
> Nice try. But, I want to see some proof. Show me proof that the vaccinated are "spreading more delta".


I never said they were spreading *more* Delta.


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## Sunny (Jul 28, 2021)

From all I've heard and read about this, the reason for asking vaccinated people to wear masks is mainly to protect the UNvaccinated people. They (we) can all be carrying the virus anywhere on our bodies. But overwhelmingly, if we've been vaccinated, it won't make us seriously ill. Some people have gotten sick, but it was more like a cold.

There is also serious doubt about how willing those vaccinated people will be to wear masks again. Maybe protecting children who are too young to get vaccinated would be enough motivation; protecting people who refuse to get vaccinated although the vaccine is available, free, and right near where they live, sounds a lot more doubtful to me.

It is plain common sense to get rid of the politically motivated poisonous ideas, and take the simple, obvious steps to protect one's own health and the health of our loved ones.  If all Americans would just get vaccinated, the scourge of this disease would just plain disappear, and we could return to normal.


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## Becky1951 (Jul 28, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Another state reporting.  ​​159 Dead, 593 Hospitalized in Illinois Breakthrough COVID Cases​More than 150 people have died and nearly 600 have been hospitalized in Illinois due to COVID-19 in "breakthrough" cases after they were fully vaccinated, according to state health officials.
> 
> https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/cor...in-illinois-breakthrough-covid-cases/2560611/


Now its 169 dead and 650 hospitalized.  


169 Dead, 644 Hospitalized in Illinois Breakthrough COVID Cases​
"More than 160 people have died and nearly 650 have been hospitalized in Illinois due to COVID-19 in "breakthrough" cases after they were fully vaccinated, according to state health officials."

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/cor...in-illinois-breakthrough-covid-cases/2569598/


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## JonDouglas (Jul 28, 2021)

Pfizer, AstraZeneca vaccine antibody levels may decline after 2-3 months: Lancet study​
Total antibody levels start to wane six weeks after complete immunisation with Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines, and can reduce by more than 50 per cent over 10 weeks, according to a study published in The Lancet journal.

The researchers from University College London (UCL) in the UK noted that if the antibody levels carry on dropping at this rate, there are concerns that the protective effects of the vaccines may also begin to wear off, particularly against new variants. However, they said, how soon that might happen cannot be predicted yet.

The UCL Virus Watch study also found that antibody levels are substantially higher following two doses of the Pfizer vaccine than after two shots of the AstraZeneca preventive, known as Covishield in India. Antibody levels were also much higher in vaccinated people than those with prior SARS-CoV-2 infection, they said.  "The levels of antibody following both doses of either the AstraZeneca or Pfizer vaccine were initially very high, which is likely to be an important part of why they are so protective against severe COVID-19," said Madhumita Shrotri from UCL Institute of Health Informatics.

"*However, we found these levels dropped substantially over two to three months*," Shrotri said in a statement.


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## win231 (Jul 28, 2021)

Sunny said:


> From all I've heard and read about this, the reason for asking vaccinated people to wear masks is mainly to protect the UNvaccinated people. They (we) can all be carrying the virus anywhere on our bodies. But overwhelmingly, if we've been vaccinated, it won't make us seriously ill. Some people have gotten sick, but it was more like a cold.
> 
> There is also serious doubt about how willing those vaccinated people will be to wear masks again. Maybe protecting children who are too young to get vaccinated would be enough motivation; protecting people who refuse to get vaccinated although the vaccine is available, free, and right near where they live, sounds a lot more doubtful to me.
> 
> It is plain common sense to get rid of the politically motivated poisonous ideas, and take the simple, obvious steps to protect one's own health and the health of our loved ones.  If all Americans would just get vaccinated, the scourge of this disease would just plain disappear, and we could return to normal.


_  "If all Americans would just get vaccinated, the scourge of this disease would just plain disappear, and we could return to normal."_
In a fantasy world of your own design.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 28, 2021)

win231 said:


> _  "If all Americans would just get vaccinated, the scourge of this disease would just plain disappear, and we could return to normal."_
> In a fantasy world of your own design.


Someboy's just not paying attention or, as you suggested, living in a dream world.  It's already a certainty that vaccines are neither preventing covid nor stopping it from spreading.

Note:  This was caught earlier today before the censors got to it.  The very fact that they're asking the vaccinated to mask up again suggests incompetence.  It would also seem that fudging the numbers is biting them in the ass.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 28, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Pfizer, AstraZeneca vaccine antibody levels may decline after 2-3 months: Lancet study​
> Total antibody levels start to wane six weeks after complete immunisation with Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines, and can reduce by more than 50 per cent over 10 weeks, according to a study published in The Lancet journal.
> 
> The researchers from University College London (UCL) in the UK noted that if the antibody levels carry on dropping at this rate, there are concerns that the protective effects of the vaccines may also begin to wear off, particularly against new variants. However, they said, how soon that might happen cannot be predicted yet.
> ...


And of course Pfizer booster trials have been underway

https://www.wrcbtv.com/story/44377946/pfizer-booster-shot-trial-underway-in-nashville

Coincidentally Pfizer projects over 33 billion dollars in vax sales in 2021.

https://texasnewstoday.com/pfizer-r...-for-covid-19-vaccine-to-33-5-billion/385336/


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## Brookswood (Jul 28, 2021)

Good news from a 6 month study of the Pfizer vaccine's effectiveness:

Any symptomatic infection
2 months 96%
2-4 months 90%
4-6 months 84%
For protection vs severe illness solid all the way through at least 6 months *97%*


win231 said:


> You are playing the typical blame game; plus you need to feel superior.  No one has the right to make health decisions for others.
> If you believe your vaccine protects you, it wouldn't matter to you if others were not vaccinated.  Your concern for others who are not vaccinated indicates your lack of confidence in the vaccine.
> If you believe your vaccine doesn't protect you from others who are not vaccinated, stay home; that way you'll be really safe.



Look up Ad Hominem attacks.


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## Brookswood (Jul 28, 2021)

win231 said:


> Ironic that you left out the word _"Sense."_
> And, no reply?  Don't have one?


    I added the missing word. Better late than never. 
My reply is that there is very little TB in my area. What little there is was brought in by immagrants and travelers, and it has been controlled by the health department.   Quite simply, it is not a significant threat where I live. I hope the same is true for your location.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 28, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> I think when it comes to considering information regarding Covid, its better to have an open mind to *all* information available.
> 
> Sticking ones head in the sand is never good because that leaves your a** up in the air ready to be kicked.


To that end (open to all information available), a source sent me a link to something Nobel Laureate virologist Luc Montagnier had to say HERE.  It's something to certainly watch for with all the other crap that's happening.


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## win231 (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> I added the missing word. Better late than never.
> My reply is that there is very little TB in my area. What little there is was brought in by immagrants and travelers, and it has been controlled by the health department.   Quite simply, it is not a significant threat where I live. I hope the same is true for your location.


Not quite:
_"What is the global impact of tuberculosis? In 2018, 1.7 billion people were infected by TB bacteria — roughly *23%* of the world's population. TB is the leading infectious disease killer in the world, claiming 1.5 million lives each year."_

You have no way of knowing who is an immigrant or traveler.  You could infect everyone around you.  When are you going to get tested?
Don't you care about protecting others?


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## win231 (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> Come now. Ask a question that makes sense.


Uh....you have no answer for a question you don't like, so.......it doesn't "make sense."
Don't feel bad.  No one else can answer it, either.


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## AnnieA (Jul 28, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> I don't blame them.  I simply do not want to pay the price for their choice.  If they're right or lucky or whatever they will be fine. Great!  If they're wrong or unlucky or whatever they may get very sick, perhaps die. Very sad.  It's on them.  Just leave me out of it.



You can't be left out of it.  We've known for weeks now that vaccinated people are getting sick.  People with mild cases are more likely to spread it just as in the first wave  because they feel like they have a mild cold or allergy symptoms and don't stay home while contagious.  The mask recommendation  for vaccinated people is long overdue.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 28, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> You can't be left out of it.  Vaccinated people are getting sick and have been spreading it with mild cases. We've known that for weeks now.  The mask recommendation  for vaccinated people is long overdue.


Add to that the fact there's an internal government argument happening now.  The argument is that most masks don't work and that masking standard need to be upped to form-fitting, medical grade masks.  Of course those do, according to personnel in my Dr. office, bring with them their own problems.


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## Brookswood (Jul 29, 2021)

Alas, it looks like wearing a mask while Delta making its way through the population may be wise.   I don't like wearing a mask, but having known several people who suffered terribly from Covid, I know I would like getting Covid far less than wearing a mask.  Time to break out the KN95 masks I stored a few months ago.




> How does Delta’s contagiousness change our exposure risk?​
> Being vaccinated is the best way to reduce risk of contracting the virus, doctors say, though they advise even vaccinated individuals to take extra caution. The vaccines are somewhat less effective at preventing infections from Delta compared with earlier strains of the virus, but still protect strongly against severe disease and death, they say.
> 
> 
> For unvaccinated people, Delta changes the old conventional wisdom that a person is most at risk of infection after 15 minutes of close contact with an infected person. With Delta, infection can likely happen in less than five minutes, scientists say. The variant may even be potent enough to infect an unvaccinated person with a fleeting exposure, such as a minute or two in an elevator, says Dr. Marr.


At least most of the outdoor activities I enjoy are still very safe.


> If you are vaccinated, activities like biking, jogging or hiking—where you’re moving and exposure to an infected person is very brief—should be safe without a mask, doctors say. “Between being vaccinated and being outdoors, that’s pretty good protection,” says Dr. Marr. She does recommend even vaccinated people wear a mask outside in crowded settings.


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## JonDouglas (Jul 29, 2021)

Well, here we are 8 months later and heading right back to where we were.  Does anyone else smell the stench of incompetence in the air?  Or, is that smell something else?  Who's making out big in all of this?  It's not small business that was once the country's economic backbone.


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