# No more masks!



## Sunny (May 13, 2021)

The CDC announced today that mask wearing is no longer necessary, indoors or out. Of course, anyone is free to continue wearing it if they want to, but anyone who has been vaccinated can consider themselves pretty well protected by now.

Thank you, Dr. Fauci!  Best news in a long time!


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## hollydolly (May 13, 2021)

Sunny said:


> The CDC announced today that mask wearing is no longer necessary, indoors or out. Of course, anyone is free to continue wearing it if they want to, but anyone who has been vaccinated can consider themselves pretty well protected by now.
> 
> Thank you, Dr. Fauci!  Best news in a long time!


Are you not concerned about the new Indian Variant ?


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## chic (May 13, 2021)

Yay! My state is still keeping the forced mask mandate so I'll have to drive to another.


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## Aunt Marg (May 13, 2021)

Sunny said:


> The CDC announced today that mask wearing is no longer necessary, indoors or out. Of course, anyone is free to continue wearing it if they want to, but anyone who has been vaccinated can consider themselves pretty well protected by now.
> 
> Thank you, Dr. Fauci!  Best news in a long time!


It's my understanding that mask wearing mandates meant little to those in the USofA.

Those who approached the guidelines with respect, wore them, and those who lacked respect for themselves as well as other, didn't.

That, and the fact that States such as Texas, Mississippi, Alabama and West Virginia, all bucked the system back in April and arbitrarily chose to lift any/all restrictions related to mask wearing, which relayed to me the complete and total anarchy that exists in your country.


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## JonDouglas (May 13, 2021)

Sunny said:


> The CDC announced today that mask wearing is no longer necessary, indoors or out. Of course, anyone is free to continue wearing it if they want to, but anyone who has been vaccinated can consider themselves pretty well protected by now.
> 
> Thank you, Dr. Fauci!  Best news in a long time!



LOL, You can be pretty sure it was political pressure and not Fauci that pushed this decision.  Follow the trajectory of what Fauci's said and take a look at how the CDC changed testing cycle thresholds.  In terms of power and influence, the odds are very high Fauci's history.


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## win231 (May 13, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> LOL, You can be pretty sure it was political pressure and not Fauci that pushed this decision.  Follow the trajectory of what Fauci's said and take a look at how the CDC changed testing cycle thresholds.  In terms of power and influence, the odds are very high Fauci's history.


HAHA.  People will credit anyone they admire for anything they like.  And blame anyone they don't admire for anything they don't like.


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## JonDouglas (May 13, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> LOL, You can be pretty sure it was political pressure and not Fauci that pushed this decision.  Follow the trajectory of what Fauci's said and take a look at how the CDC changed testing cycle thresholds.  In terms of power and influence, the odds are very high Fauci's history.


It will be interesting to see what develops out the continued investigation into U.S. connections with and alleged funding of Wuhan Lab's Cofid research.  Finger pointing is picking up steam.


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## Aunt Marg (May 13, 2021)

I see the announcement as being the first foot in the door, with the other on it's way.

Just can't wait to open everything up for business again and pretend all is back to normal, account a slump in Covid numbers being recorded for the past few weeks.


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## JonDouglas (May 13, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I see the announcement as being the first foot in the door, with the other on it's way.
> 
> Just can't wait to open everything up for business again and pretend all is back to normal, account a slump in Covid numbers being recorded for the past few weeks.


It appears comparisons between masking and non-masking states were becoming a major embarrassment to some circles.  Apparently not in NY, through.  I just read that Cuomo said NY isn't ready to follow the new federal guideline advice.


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## chic (May 13, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> LOL, You can be pretty sure it was political pressure and not Fauci that pushed this decision.  Follow the trajectory of what Fauci's said and take a look at how the CDC changed testing cycle thresholds.  In terms of power and influence, the odds are very high Fauci's history.


You bet. This comes from higher up and always has. America is supposed to be fully vaccinated by July 4. By allowing only the FULLY vaccinated to unmask, I think that's supposed to be the motivation. In reality, it's the beginning of the two tier society spoken about last year.


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## chic (May 13, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> It will be interesting to see what develops out the continued investigation into U.S. connections with and alleged funding of Wuhan Lab's Cofid research.  Finger pointing is picking up steam.


It will be like the Warren commission. Nada.


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## Keesha (May 13, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Finger pointing is picking up steam.


Yes indeed. 
That is all I’m saying.


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## Lara (May 13, 2021)

NC is still required to mask indoors. I'm relieved to hear that. I'm not ready for being anywhere indoors when someone sneezes without a mask on. And like Holly said..."the new Indian Variant"


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## John cycling (May 13, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Those who approached the guidelines with respect, wore them, and those who lacked respect for themselves as well as other, didn't.



People who force others to restrict their breathing which creates well known negative health effects respect others? 
I pretty much have the opposite viewpoint to yours. 

This is one of the mandates which is STILL in force in California:
*"Individuals over age 2 must wear a face covering when outside their homes unless one of the specified exceptions applies."*

As far as I'm concerned, forcing children to wear a mask that not only restricts their breathing but also inhibits their development - including the development of their brains - is an atrocity and child abuse.  I would never do that to a child, nor to anyone else.

Personally, I don't agree with any of the mandates.  People should have the right to decide what is best for their personal health, and should not be restricted from doing the same things that people do who are following the extremely questionable and unhealthy mandates. 

I don't feel the mandates are healthy at all, but are extremely dangerous - which is why I don't wear a mask.


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## Ruthanne (May 13, 2021)

I think we're still required to wear a mask in businesses so I'll wear mine doesn't bother me too much because I'm only in and out of there quickly.   I haven't been wearing my mask inside the corridors of this apartment building ever since I got the vaccine and not outside since then.  

I believe our vaccines protect from getting seriously sick from all variants at a very high percentage.


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## Aunt Marg (May 13, 2021)

John cycling said:


> People who force others to restrict their breathing which creates well known negative health effects respect others?
> I pretty much have the opposite viewpoint to yours.
> 
> This is one of the mandates which is STILL in force in California:
> ...


Are there provisions in place in your country for those who suffer from underlying health issues/conditions, etc, related to breathing?


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## Warrigal (May 13, 2021)

I went to the optometrist recently and I wore a mask during the examination. So did he. Caution and courtesy on both sides. Both of us have received COVID vaccinations but I have only had the first dose.


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## Sunny (May 13, 2021)

Funny coincidence, I went to the optometrist also today. We both wore masks. Everyone in his office wore them. But an hour or so after coming home, I saw the happy news that those of us who had gotten the vaccine were now free of the masks. 

Of course, people who are not vaccinated can probably take their masks off also, in crowded indoor spaces, if they are dumb and foolhardy enough to do it. But they are risking their own lives, and maybe the lives of their loved one.  They are not supposed to take their masks off, except when outdoors, and even then, if in a big crowd, the mask should go back on.

I don't know anything about variants, so I can't answer that. But probably the vaccine works against it also, or they wouldn't be advising everyone who is vaccinated to take the mask off. This news is being gratefully celebrated by the millions who are safe from the disease.


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## Packerjohn (May 13, 2021)

The trouble is that there is a segment of our society that would love to wear masks for the next 100 plus years.  They love to hide their faces, they love the social distancing and they love the constant washing of their hands.  When I got into most stores I see there are thousands of masks being sold (Wally Mart) and tons of santizers.  These people have found their religion and it's not Jesus.  Today, I spend a day in a small town.  Very few  people wearing masks except in the mall.  In the local city they are driving cars, sitting alone and wearing masks.  It's sad to see that some people think that Covid is coming from their stereo systems.  The Covid virus is spreading in the big cities; not the small town.  As a life long country boy, I must say that this is definitely an urban problem.  You want to live in an over populated urban city, then you should expect the pandemic consequences.  There are just too many people in this world and these kind of pandemic will become more and more common as the years go by.


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> The trouble is that there is a segment of our society that would love to wear masks for the next 100 plus years.  They love to hide their faces, they love the social distancing and they love the constant washing of their hands.  When I got into most stores I see there are thousands of masks being sold (Wally Mart) and tons of santizers.  These people have found their religion and it's not Jesus.  Today, I spend a day in a small town.  Very few  people wearing masks except in the mall.  In the local city they are driving cars, sitting alone and wearing masks.  It's sad to see that some people think that Covid is coming from their stereo systems.  The Covid virus is spreading in the big cities; not the small town.  As a life long country boy, I must say that this is definitely an urban problem.  You want to live in an over populated urban city, then you should expect the pandemic consequences.  There are just too many people in this world and these kind of pandemic will become more and more common as the years go by.


As far as I am concerned, if people want to wear face diapers and/or quarantine themselves, that's fine.  Just don't expect me or other healthy people to do the same.


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## chic (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> As far as I am concerned, if people want to wear face diapers and/or quarantine themselves, that's fine.  Just don't expect me or other healthy people to do the same.


If people want to wear masks that's their choice but it alarms me when the rest of us are told plainly that we won't we get out of indoor mask wearing unless we're vaccinated.  That is blatant discrimination against a huge segment of the population who cannot be vaccinated due to medical reasons or from having a bad reaction to their 1st dose. Two tier society coming our way. But that's what so many foresaw from the start.


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## Aunt Bea (May 14, 2021)

I'll continue to use my own common sense when I'm out in public.

I'm afraid that with only 1/3 of Americans fully vaccinated we will see another surge in the infection rate as the anti-vaxxers stop wearing masks and attempt to blend in under this new CDC guideline.


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

chic said:


> If people want to wear masks that's their choice but it alarms me when the rest of us are told plainly that we won't we get out of indoor mask wearing unless we're vaccinated.  That is blatant discrimination against a huge segment of the population who cannot be vaccinated due to medical reasons or from having a bad reaction to their 1st dose. Two tier society coming our way. But that's what so many foresaw from the start.


Unless they enact formal vaccination registration, who's going to know?


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I'll continue to use my own common sense when I'm out in public.
> 
> I'm afraid that with only 1/3 of Americans fully vaccinated we will see another surge in the infection rate as the anti-vaxxers stop wearing masks and attempt to blend in under this new CDC guideline.


Another surge?  I suppose that's possible but how do you square that with states with no mask mandate doing as good as or better than states with a mandate?


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

From newswires this morning:  *Dr Anthony Fauci said Thursday children will still have to wear masks. *That's what was from the Daily Mail.
Since children represent the healthiest segment of our population, that really doesn't make a lot of sense to me and I am happy to report that you don't see many children around here wearing masks on the playground.


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## Aunt Marg (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> From newswires this morning:  *Dr Anthony Fauci said Thursday children will still have to wear masks. *That's what was from the Daily Mail.
> Since children represent the healthiest segment of our population, that really doesn't make a lot of sense to me and I am happy to report that *you don't see many children around here wearing masks on the playground.*


Same goes for here in BC, Canada.

I caught a news blip last night that mentioned it won't be until August (at best), where the easing of restrictions related to mask wearing will be considered.


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## ProTruckDriver (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> From newswires this morning:  *Dr Anthony Fauci said Thursday children will still have to wear masks. *That's what was from the Daily Mail.
> Since children represent the healthiest segment of our population, that really doesn't make a lot of sense to me and I am happy to report that you don't see many children around here wearing masks on the playground.


WoW! Vaccinate six month old babies.


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## Aunt Marg (May 14, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> WoW! Vaccinate six month old babies.


I'm with you on that, Pro. 

The news blip I caught last night spoke of Covid vaccine hesitancy, and what could be better done to get more people to accept vaccination, and how if 80% of the population got vaccinated, the country would open up again and life could be restored back to normal.

I'm amazed at reports such as this, actually, more amazed at all the folks who buy into this cheap lying hype, because those at the top have been lying to us from the very get-go of this pandemic, so they've lost all credibility with me. I simply see the push to reach an 80% milestone as noting more than a figure, one of which when achieved (good luck with that), subsequent pushes will follow to pressure the last 20%, but I don't see an opening up of anything, at least not back to normal as authorities claim, at least not in our country, and I definitely don't see any level of honesty injected into the words of top authorities, due to honesty being void from the start.


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I'm with you on that, Pro.
> 
> The news blip I caught last night spoke of Covid vaccine hesitancy, and what could be better done to get more people to accept vaccination, and how if 80% of the population got vaccinated, the country would open up again and life could be restored back to normal.
> 
> I'm amazed at reports such as this, actually, more amazed at all the folks who buy into this cheap lying hype, because those at the top have been lying to us from the very get-go of this pandemic, so they've lost all credibility with me. I simply see the push to reach an 80% milestone as noting more than a figure, one of which when achieved (good luck with that), subsequent pushes will follow to pressure the last 20%, but I don't see an opening up of anything, at least not back to normal as authorities claim, at least not in our country, and I definitely don't see any level of honesty injected into the words of top authorities, due to honesty being void from the start.


If  people knew and understood what was going on at the CDC to give gravitas to these decisions, CDC credibility might hit the floor.  To add a little fuel to this fire, here's something I read the other day.  It was from an unnamed source just like what the media uses, but the content makes enough sense to certainly ask questions.

_There’s an old saying that goes something like this: “If you torture the numbers long enough, you can make them say anything.” In our Covid-hysteria world, the CDC and other medical organizations have practiced a variation of the saying. If you run enough cycles of the PCR tests, you can make any sample test positive for Covid-19._​​_For over a year, there have been questions from doctors and scientists about the efficacy of having high “Cycle Thresholds” (Cts) for swab testing for Covid-19. Every cycle doubles the chances of finding a positive case, so 34 cycles will have 16-times more coronavirus materials than a 30-cycle test. There is no consensus about how many cycles should be run to give an acceptably accurate determination of Covid infections. Some doctors say it should be as low as 10. Others go as high as 35._​​_Some labs where PCR tests are checked will go over 40 or even 50 cycles. This is likely how a pawpaw fruit and goat, neither of which are capable of contracting Covid-19, both tested positive last year in a stunt by Tanzanian President John Magufuli._​​_The CDC has left the guidelines about the appropriate number of cycles ambiguous from the beginning. As a result, Covid-19 “cases” have skyrocketed at times even though a high Ct threshold can result in false-positives very easily. But things have changed now that tens of millions of Americans have been vaccinated. *The CDC suddenly wants limits to the number of cycles but ONLY for those who have been vaccinated.*_​


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## chic (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Another surge?  I suppose that's possible but how do you square that with states is with no mask mandate doing as good as or better than states with a mandate?


I ask myself this question constantly. My state could learn something from free choice states.


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## horseless carriage (May 14, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Just can't wait to open everything up for business again and pretend all is back to normal, account a slump in Covid numbers being recorded for the past few weeks.


Oh! Does that mean I can no longer go into a bank, wearing a mask and ask for cash?


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## Keesha (May 14, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> Oh! Does that mean I can no longer go into a bank, wearing a mask and ask for cash?


Lol... My husband keeps saying it wasn’t long ago you’d get arrested for going into a bank with a mask on. Around here if you went in without one you might. You wouldn’t really but you wouldn’t be allowed in. How times have changed.


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## cdestroyer (May 14, 2021)

Since most of the vaccinated yankees baseball team tested positive for the coronavirus I would say wearing a mask was still the best idea.


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

chic said:


> I ask myself this question constantly. My state could learn something from free choice states.


I doubt it.  I have this hypothesis that a good many state and federal politicians are in it for ego/power/money trip it provides and not as a result of their brain power or ability to think.  Also, their "party" and contributors have some control over what they say/do..


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

cdestroyer said:


> Since most of the vaccinated yankees baseball team tested positive for the coronavirus I would say wearing a mask was still the best idea.


Consider the possibility that if  you dig deep enough with "enough" test cycles, just about everyone will test positive.  Wouldn't that be a fly in the political ointment.


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## Nathan (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> LOL, You can be pretty sure it was political pressure and not Fauci that pushed this decision.  Follow the trajectory of what Fauci's said and take a look at how the CDC changed testing cycle thresholds.  In terms of power and influence, the odds are very high Fauci's history.


I'm starting to get the impression that you are not a big Dr. Fauci fan....


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## Nathan (May 14, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> It's my understanding that mask wearing mandates meant little to those in the USofA.
> 
> Those who approached the guidelines with respect, wore them, and those who lacked respect for themselves as well as other, didn't.
> 
> That, and the fact that States such as *Texas, Mississippi, Alabama and West Virginia*, *all bucked the system* back in April and arbitrarily chose to lift any/all restrictions related to mask wearing, which relayed to me the complete and total anarchy that exists in your country.


No big surprises, considering the political leanings of these populations.


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## hollydolly (May 14, 2021)

Well , our whole country has been looking forward to the lifting on Monday May 17th  of much of our lockdown restrictions ..but apparently 4 deaths have been reported in the North of the country of the Indian Variantof C-19.. so we await an emergency announcement from Boris at 5pm  ( 30 mins from now)...we're expected to hear that once again as he did in December with just a few hours notice, that we will *not* be having our restrictions lifted as promised.....

I hope I'm wrong, I hope_ desperately_ that I'm wrong.. but watch this space...


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## win231 (May 14, 2021)

chic said:


> If people want to wear masks that's their choice but it alarms me when the rest of us are told plainly that we won't we get out of indoor mask wearing unless we're vaccinated.  That is blatant discrimination against a huge segment of the population who cannot be vaccinated due to medical reasons or from having a bad reaction to their 1st dose. Two tier society coming our way. But that's what so many foresaw from the start.


It really doesn't matter to me because how would anyone know whether or not you're vaccinated?  Ask?  I'd say "MYOB."
I doubt anyone would be asked to prove it.


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## hollydolly (May 14, 2021)

win231 said:


> It really doesn't matter to me because how would anyone know whether or not you're vaccinated?  Ask?  I'd say "MYOB."
> I doubt anyone would be asked to prove it.


well here , people are being asked to show their ''Vaccine Passport'' for certain things... No VP no entry...


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

Nathan said:


> I'm starting to get the impression that you are not a big Dr. Fauci fan....


Nathan, I am not a fan of flip-flopping politicians and government bureaucrats in general.


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## chic (May 14, 2021)

win231 said:


> It really doesn't matter to me because how would anyone know whether or not you're vaccinated?  Ask?  I'd say "MYOB."
> I doubt anyone would be asked to prove it.


Vaccine passports and LONG lines separating the vaccinated from the unvaccinated are probably next.


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## chic (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Consider the possibility that if  you dig deep enough with "enough" test cycles, just about everyone will test positive.  Wouldn't that be a fly in the political ointment.


It's true though. Testing positive doesn't mean much.


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

chic said:


> Vaccine passports and LONG lines separating the vaccinated from the unvaccinated are probably next.


I am guessing some states, not the ones people are trying to get out of, won't be doing that.


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## fmdog44 (May 14, 2021)

Here's what we should consider to be scary. With all the access countries have to news items and issues should be a beneficial thing to all. What I saw in the COVID issue was ongoing, ever changing confusion turning a candle light in to a bonfire. Do we know what to believe when the "so-called facts change by the second? Put this confusion in the framework of a different national emergency and the outcome cannot be good. We hear now America has never been more divided. Maybe it is because we don't know who or what to believe anymore.


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Here's what we should consider to be scary. With all the access countries have to news items and issues should be a beneficial thing to all. What I saw in the COVID issue was ongoing, ever changing confusion turning a candle light in to a bonfire. Do we know what to believe when the "so-called facts change by the second? Put this confusion in the framework of a different national emergency and the outcome cannot be good. We hear now America has never been more divided. Maybe it is because we don't know who or what to believe anymore.


May I suggest that this is only a "big scary deal" to those who either (a) are more easily scared of events, or (b) those who want to promote the idea of being scared.  Personally, neither I nor most the people i know are scared.  As for worrying about believing the government, you might want to take a walk back though the history of this republic.  The Federalist Papers might be of interest.


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## hollydolly (May 14, 2021)

Well, Boris has spoken, and for once he's keeping to his word, and we will continue as planned on our path to freedom on Monday.. and the cities and towns in the North of the country will be given extra incentives to take the Vaccines... including having the army on the streets


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## saltydog (May 14, 2021)

Is social distancing and wearing a mask, when around strangers, really that difficult?  Why are people so quick to shed these two layers of protection that have keep us reasonably safe this past year?


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## win231 (May 14, 2021)

saltydog said:


> Is social distancing and wearing a mask, when around strangers, really that difficult?  Why are people so quick to shed these two layers of protection that have keep us reasonably safe this past year?


If we are to believe what they're telling us, I don't think 560,000 deaths amounts to "Keeping us reasonably safe."
And, everyone who believes wearing a mask protects you shouldn't be concerned about other who aren't wearing a mask.  Same with the vaccine.  If it works, you're protected.


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

saltydog said:


> Is social distancing and wearing a mask, when around strangers, really that difficult?  Why are people so quick to shed these two layers of protection that have keep us reasonably safe this past year?


Being healthy, vaccinated, accustomed to freedom and quite safe to others, I don't feel responsible for making them feel safe.  Also, how do you account for the unmasked states being as safe or perhaps safer than masked states?


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## Becky1951 (May 14, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Well, Boris has spoken, and for once he's keeping to his word, and we will continue as planned on our path to freedom on Monday.. and the cities and towns in the North of the country will be given extra incentives to take the Vaccines... including having the army on the streets


"including having the army on the streets"

Why is the army needed?


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## cdestroyer (May 14, 2021)

Well all people have the right to their own opinions no matter WHAT. Truth or lies, guesswork or statistics. And some people who jeopardize others safety by exceeding the speed limit, driving while drunk, shooting in a public place or not wearing a mask to prevent your spit from hitting others, do they have the same unalienable????


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## Nathan (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Nathan, I am not a fan of flip-flopping politicians and government bureaucrats in general.


I am loathe to do so, but I must agree with you, although I'm sure you and I have a different set of_ flip-flopping politicians and government bureaucrats _in mind.


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## hollydolly (May 14, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "including having the army on the streets"
> 
> Why is the army needed?


They;re going to be helping to carry out door-to-door testing in those high covid cities


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

Nathan said:


> I am loathe to do so, but I must agree with you, although I'm sure you and I have a different set of_ flip-flopping politicians and government bureaucrats _in mind.


Maybe, maybe not.  If they flip-flop, prevaricate, pander, act like pusillanimous partisan pukes (e.g., heavily scripted) , etc., the chances are I don't care for them.


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## Murrmurr (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> If  people knew and understood what was going on at the CDC to give gravitas to these decisions, CDC credibility might hit the floor.  To add a little fuel to this fire, here's something I read the other day.  It was from an unnamed source just like what the media uses, but the content makes enough sense to certainly ask questions.
> 
> _There’s an old saying that goes something like this: “If you torture the numbers long enough, you can make them say anything.” In our Covid-hysteria world, the CDC and other medical organizations have practiced a variation of the saying. If you run enough cycles of the PCR tests, you can make any sample test positive for Covid-19._​​_For over a year, there have been questions from doctors and scientists about the efficacy of having high “Cycle Thresholds” (Cts) for swab testing for Covid-19. Every cycle doubles the chances of finding a positive case, so 34 cycles will have 16-times more coronavirus materials than a 30-cycle test. There is no consensus about how many cycles should be run to give an acceptably accurate determination of Covid infections. Some doctors say it should be as low as 10. Others go as high as 35._​​_Some labs where PCR tests are checked will go over 40 or even 50 cycles. This is likely how a pawpaw fruit and goat, neither of which are capable of contracting Covid-19, both tested positive last year in a stunt by Tanzanian President John Magufuli._​​_The CDC has left the guidelines about the appropriate number of cycles ambiguous from the beginning. As a result, Covid-19 “cases” have skyrocketed at times even though a high Ct threshold can result in false-positives very easily. But things have changed now that tens of millions of Americans have been vaccinated. *The CDC suddenly wants limits to the number of cycles but ONLY for those who have been vaccinated.*_​


Remember when doctors and scientists pushed for nationwide testing rather than a rushed vaccine? They urged testing, and then quarantine only for those who test positive. This way, life could go on, people wouldn't lose their jobs or businesses, face evictions and etc.


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## saltydog (May 14, 2021)

win231 said:


> If we are to believe what they're telling us, I don't think 560,000 deaths amounts to "Keeping us reasonably safe."
> And, everyone who believes wearing a mask protects you shouldn't be concerned about other who aren't wearing a mask.  Same with the vaccine.  If it works, you're protected.





win231 said:


> If we are to believe what they're telling us, I don't think 560,000 deaths amounts to "Keeping us reasonably safe."
> And, everyone who believes wearing a mask protects you shouldn't be concerned about other who aren't wearing a mask.  Same with the vaccine.  If it works, you're protected.


Actually, we have no idea how many more deaths there would be now if people weren’t wearing masks and social distancing.  Also, it’s a fallacy for you to be telling people wearing masks and social distancing what they should and should not believe.


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## saltydog (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Being healthy, vaccinated, accustomed to freedom and quite safe to others, I don't feel responsible for making them feel safe.  Also, how do you account for the unmasked states being as safe or perhaps safer than masked states?


Unmasked states aren’t safer than masked states. In some cases, their number of cases and deaths, based on their state’s population, are higher than masked states.

As far as you feeling it’s not your responsible for making others feel safe; good to know.


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

saltydog said:


> Unmasked states aren’t safer than masked states. In some cases, their number of cases and deaths, based on their state’s population, are higher than masked states.
> 
> As far as you feeling it’s not your responsible for making others feel safe; good to know.


How about people taking personal responsibility for being safe.  If you are well and healthy, you're out there and safe.  If you are not well then stay the hell indoors.  If you are susceptible, by all means wear a mask but it's not my job to wear a mask to make you feel better.


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## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

saltydog said:


> Unmasked states aren’t safer than masked states. In some cases, their number of cases and deaths, based on their state’s population, are higher than masked states.
> 
> As far as you feeling it’s not your responsible for making others feel safe; good to know.


Perhaps the best comparison of that would be the Dakotas since they're similar in makeup.  North Dakota had a mask mandate and had the worst outbreaks per capita in the country.  South Dakota, with no mask mandate did not.  Check it out.


----------



## Mike (May 14, 2021)

The Japanese always wore masks, not everybody, but they
must have had reason to do so, so I will still wear one, it
will save people from looking at my old face, if for no other
reason, it is not really a hardship.

Is it a hardship?

Mike.


----------



## Feelslikefar (May 14, 2021)

After 429 days of business restrictions here in Nashville, at 5 a.m. this morning, they lifted all restrictions.  
City Officials first stated they would keep the ban on Wednesday, but announced last night they would also lift the ban.

We were the last city in Tennessee to do so.

Must have been some serious pressure from somewhere.


----------



## Jules (May 14, 2021)

win231 said:


> Same with the vaccine. If it works, you're protected.


You’re protected, but not 100%.  It’s not perfect.  It may keep me out of the hospital but I still don’t want to be very sick at home.

Bill Maher, who has had both his shots, just tested positive.  He had no symptoms.


----------



## IrisSenior (May 14, 2021)

Ya...I am wondering about this testing of positive cases. Some Toronto Blue Jays (baseball) have tested positive and have had both shots of vaccine.


----------



## win231 (May 14, 2021)

saltydog said:


> Actually, we have no idea how many more deaths there would be now if people weren’t wearing masks and social distancing.  Also, it’s a fallacy for you to be telling people wearing masks and social distancing what they should and should not believe.


Just as it's a fallacy for you to be telling people what they should and should not believe.


----------



## win231 (May 14, 2021)

saltydog said:


> Unmasked states aren’t safer than masked states. In some cases, their number of cases and deaths, based on their state’s population, are higher than masked states.
> 
> As far as you feeling it’s not your responsible for making others feel safe; good to know.


You are responsible for your own safety - whatever ways you choose - mask, vaccines, etc.
Blind people do not expect glass & stairs to be banned or padding to be installed on corners.


----------



## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

Given the link between masking and vaccinations, I saw that *Only Half Of Fauci's Organization Are Vaccinated*: Fauci just testified that about 50% or maybe more of the people in his organization are vaccinated. I wonder what's holding them back. There was an open link to the video (



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1393278803863089153)


----------



## Irwin (May 14, 2021)

As long as there are no symptoms, it doesn't really matter if you catch it, unless of course you could spread it. I haven't heard of any verified cases of someone testing positive without any symptoms spreading the virus, but it would be hard to trace such a case.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 14, 2021)

Yes, we are all responsible for ourselves.  I agree.

I stopped wearing a mask outside after my second shot took effect.  If a store has very few people in it, I do not wear a mask.  My allergies and the heat make it hard to breathe in a mask.

I will continue to make a decision about indoor mask wearing on an individual store basis.  @hollydolly I don’t think the version of the virus from India is here, but I could be wrong.


----------



## hollydolly (May 14, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Yes, we are all responsible for ourselves.  I agree.
> 
> I stopped wearing a mask outside after my second shot took effect.  If a store has very few people in it, I do not wear a mask.  My allergies and the heat make it hard to breathe in a mask.
> 
> I will continue to make a decision about indoor mask wearing on an individual store basis. * @hollydolly I don’t think the version of the virus from India is here, but I could be wrong.*


Outside of England, The US, Singapore and Germany are the only other countries to have sequenced more than 100 cases of the B.1.617+ variant


----------



## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

This was in CNN Business:  *Walmart, Trader Joe's and Costco say vaccinated customers don't have to wear masks in stores*


----------



## Jules (May 14, 2021)

Canada reported cases of the Indian Variant on April 22nd.


----------



## chic (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> This was in CNN Business:  *Walmart, Trader Joe's and Costco say vaccinated customers don't have to wear masks in stores*


So they will have long lines upon entry to separate the vaccinated from the unvaccinated to check and see?


----------



## ProTruckDriver (May 14, 2021)

chic said:


> So they will have long lines upon entry to separate the vaccinated from the unvaccinated to check and see?


You know darn well the unvaccinated will take off their mask after entry.


----------



## SeaBreeze (May 14, 2021)

Jules said:


> You’re protected, but not 100%.  It’s not perfect.  It may keep me out of the hospital but I still don’t want to be very sick at home.
> 
> Bill Maher, who has had both his shots, just tested positive.  He had no symptoms.


Yes, which is why those of us who are vaccinated should still wear a mask to protect those who aren't, we can still get a mild version of the virus, but are still capable of spreading it to those who are not vaccinated.  People should remember, this is a world wide potentially deadly pandemic, nothing to make light of.


----------



## Nathan (May 14, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Yes, which is why those of us who are vaccinated should still wear a mask to protect those who aren't, we can still get a mild version of the virus, but are still capable of spreading it to those who are not vaccinated.  People should remember, this is a world wide potentially deadly pandemic, nothing to make light of.


Double


----------



## JonDouglas (May 14, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Yes, which is why those of us who are vaccinated should still wear a mask to protect those who aren't, we can still get a mild version of the virus, but are still capable of spreading it to those who are not vaccinated.  People should remember, this is a world wide potentially deadly pandemic, nothing to make light of.


So basically what your saying is that everybody should wear a mask all the time since there's no way of knowing who is or isn't vaccinated.  In this way everyone will now be somewhat responsible for everyone else's health and well-being.  Not exactly the stuff of freedom, is it?  I don't think that's going to fly.


----------



## Keesha (May 14, 2021)

Canada still has mandatory mask wearing even if vaccinated.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...s-news-may-13-2021-gta-toronto-canada.html?rf


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## cdestroyer (May 14, 2021)

erhum...


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 14, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Outside of England, The US, Singapore and Germany are the only other countries to have sequenced more than 100 cases of the B.1.617+ variant


Well, I am not worried


----------



## SeaBreeze (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> So basically what your saying is that everybody should wear a mask all the time since there's no way of knowing who is or isn't vaccinated.  In this way everyone will now be somewhat responsible for everyone else's health and well-being.  Not exactly the stuff of freedom, is it?  I don't think that's going to fly.


I'm saying that until more people get vaccinated and the COVID-19 pandemic is under control, it's wise and considerate for those to continue to wear masks when close to other people, especially indoors.  I don't nitpick about my health or everyone else's, but those who want the pandemic to be in the rear view mirror will do whatever will help this country to be safe again, in all states, and get back to normal.  As an American I have many freedoms, I don't whine about wearing a mask while there are still active coronavirus cases in my country, that does not affect my freedoms.  Don't care if it "flies" or not.  That is my opinion on safety during this pandemic.


----------



## win231 (May 14, 2021)

Irwin said:


> As long as there are no symptoms, it doesn't really matter if you catch it, unless of course you could spread it. I haven't heard of any verified cases of someone testing positive without any symptoms spreading the virus, but it would be hard to trace such a case.





JonDouglas said:


> This was in CNN Business:  *Walmart, Trader Joe's and Costco say vaccinated customers don't have to wear masks in stores*


I was at Trader Joe's (CA) today.  The_ "Masks Required"_ signs were gone.


----------



## win231 (May 14, 2021)

cdestroyer said:


> erhum... the vaccines we received from childhood to today do NOT prevent you from getting the disease, but rather limit the diseases affects.. you got a regular flu shot but still got the flu, just not as bad as if you not gotten the shot!


Re:  The flu shot making the flu less severe.  
If they want to sell flu shots, they can't very well tell us it's useless, then we'll be asking them, "Then why do you want us to get it?"


----------



## chic (May 14, 2021)

win231 said:


> I was at Trader Joe's (CA) today.  The_ "Masks Required"_ signs were gone.


I hope they disappear here as well. Our governor still won't allow it but says changes are coming early next week. I hope so. I've been sitting in cars since last September because stores everywhere won't let me in without a mask. You can't fully understand how much this damages you until you've lived through it like I have.


----------



## Nathan (May 14, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> So basically what your saying is that everybody should wear a mask all the time since there's no way of knowing who is or isn't vaccinated.  In this way everyone will now be somewhat responsible for everyone else's health and well-being.  Not exactly the stuff of freedom, is it?  I don't think that's going to fly.


There is no indication..*.none at all* that continued wearing of masks will be mandated by public authority. However, it has been suggested that the populace might be inclined to exercise common sense on a personal basis.


----------



## SeaBreeze (May 14, 2021)

Nathan said:


> There is no indication..*.none at all* that continued wearing of masks will be mandated by public authority. However, it has been suggested that the populace might be inclined to exercise common sense on a personal basis.


If everyone acted like adults with common sense in this country, we'd be in much better shape now with this pandemic than we are currently.


----------



## Warrigal (May 14, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> It's my understanding that mask wearing mandates meant little to those in the USofA.
> 
> Those who approached the guidelines with respect, wore them, and those who lacked respect for themselves as well as other, didn't.
> 
> That, and the fact that States such as Texas, Mississippi, Alabama and West Virginia, all bucked the system back in April and arbitrarily chose to lift any/all restrictions related to mask wearing, which relayed to me the complete and total anarchy that exists in your country.


Anarchy ??? I think that is what my mother was referring to when she described certain people as always being "agin the guv'mint". She blamed the Irish blood for this tendency. Irish blood runs in my family.

She had another saying for unthinking and reckless people. She would declare that they would set fire to the house to light a cigarette.

Agonising about whether to wear or not wear a mask is a First World problem. Right now, in India, people are desperately trying to get a seat on a plane to Australia before they get infected and die. For some it is already too late. They are Australian citizens but the government is only now organising evacuations.

That is really something to be concerned about.


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## Warrigal (May 14, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Yes, which is why those of us who are vaccinated should still wear a mask to protect those who aren't, we can still get a mild version of the virus, but are still capable of spreading it to those who are not vaccinated.  People should remember, this is a world wide potentially deadly pandemic, nothing to make light of.


SeaBreeze, you have hit the nail squarely on the head. COVID-19 has set off a pandemic and it won't end anytime soon. Caution and co-operation will be necessary until every country has beaten this disease. Only then will it be safe to have open borders and international travel again. The whole world will need to be vaccinated at levels that produce a high level of immunity to every variant of the coronavirus.

Sure, there will be times of respite when infection levels are low and there will be regions/states where infection is not spreading, but all that can change very quickly if we think it is all over. It's not. and it won't be for many months, maybe years, yet.


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## Mike (May 15, 2021)

I read somewhere recently a statement that made me think:-

Wear a mask for a few hours when out and be safe into the future.

Don't wear a mask when out and be dead forever!

Not really true I know but it does promote thought.

Mike.


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## hollydolly (May 15, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, I am not worried


I hope it never arrives in your state... it really will cause much more harm than God knows we've had already....


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## Aneeda72 (May 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I hope it never arrives in your state... it really will cause much more harm then God knows we've had already....


I saw on the news this morning that the India version is spreading in a part of England and May effect the reopening there which is sad.  I think in the USA so many have had Covid and a good deal of people are vaccinated, that we are starting to see a bit of herd immunity.  We are reopening.

Plus there are always people who will not get the virus even though they are not vaccinated.  Having said this, I am “over” being worried about the virus.  I have done what I can and continue to do what I can to protect myself.  All my family that can be vaccinated is.  I was only expected, according to certain docs, to live to 75 and I will be 75 soon.   Not wasting anymore of the time I have left on virus worries.

I will not return to watching a movie at the movie theater, the risk is too great.  I will do indoor dining only once or twice a month and only if the restaurant is not busy.  Otherwise, I return to life as usual and, as usual, it is in the hands of God.

I hope the people of the UK and other countries do well @hollydolly but the virus will always be with us.


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## hollydolly (May 15, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I saw on the news this morning that the India version is spreading in a part of England and May effect the reopening there which is sad.  I think in the USA so many have had Covid and a good deal of people are vaccinated, that we are starting to see a bit of herd immunity.  We are reopening.
> 
> Plus there are always people who will not get the virus even though they are not vaccinated.  Having said this, I am “over” being worried about the virus.  I have done what I can and continue to do what I can to protect myself.  All my family that can be vaccinated is.  I was only expected, according to certain docs, to live to 75 and I will be 75 soon.   Not wasting anymore of the time I have left on virus worries.
> 
> ...


It hasn't prevented our re-opening on the 17th..our PM made a speech at 5pm last night and said that the cities ( mainly northern cities) will be given extra help with vaccinations in the hope of preventing the Indian variant from spreading too far...so our long awaited release from lockdown will go ahead on Monday.. thank God, and hopefully everyone will still take a lot of care...if not for themselves but to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed and people with serious conditions such as Cancer, and ALS.. etc will not die for the want of treamtent in an otherwise overcrowded hospital


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## Aneeda72 (May 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> It hasn't prevented our re-opening on the 17th..our PM made a speech at 5pm last night and said that the cities ( mainly northern cities) will be given extra help with vaccinations in the hope of preventing the Indian variant from spreading too far...so our long awaited release from lockdown will go ahead on Monday.. thank God, and hopefully everyone will still take a lot of care...if not for themselves but to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed and people with serious conditions such as Cancer, and ALS.. etc will not die for the want of treamtent in an otherwise overcrowded hospital


Boris looks much healthier, to me, than he has in the past (can’t remember his last name).  The speech I saw him make said that things might change on the June 7 plans.  Are they forcing people in the north to get vaccinated?  It said they were going house to house to vaccinate.  @hollydolly


----------



## hollydolly (May 15, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Boris looks much healthier, to me, than he has in the past (can’t remember his last name).  The speech I saw him make said that things might change on the June 7 plans.  Are they forcing people in the north to get vaccinated?  It said they were going house to house to vaccinate.  @hollydolly


yes they are going house to house.. this is not the first Rodeo for those areas in the north ....so this time they really have to have it explained to them how important it is to be vaccinated..

Boris Johnson.. is looking better  to you I suspect since he recovered from C-19 ..and yes he's covering himself for the June re-opening of EVERYTHING... in case the Indian Variant becomes much worse between now and then


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## JonDouglas (May 15, 2021)

Nathan said:


> There is no indication..*.none at all* that continued wearing of masks will be mandated by public authority. However, it has been suggested that the populace might be inclined to exercise common sense on a personal basis.


Of course not.  Some public authorities are continuing to mandate them now but more and more people have stopped listening.  Wait till the effects of continued masking become known.  Anyway, you don't see many people around here wearing them when out and about.  I am planning to attend a big tank (as in army tank) demo day at the American Heritage Museum today and will take stock of masking there, if any.


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## JonDouglas (May 15, 2021)

According to WPTV, *Publix no longer requires masks for fully-vaccinated shoppers*. That begs the question as to how they know if someone is vaccinated or not. Asking someone to reveal whether they are vaccinated or not might be a HIPA violation, but I am not sure.


----------



## garyt1957 (May 15, 2021)

cdestroyer said:


> erhum... the vaccines we received from childhood to today do NOT prevent you from getting the disease, but rather limit the diseases affects.. you got a regular flu shot but still got the flu, just not as bad as if you not gotten the shot!


Smallpox, polio and measles off the top of my head say you're wrong


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## ProTruckDriver (May 15, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Asking someone to reveal whether they are vaccinated or not might be a HIPA violation, but I am not sure.


It should be. I live in a retirement complex. Whenever someone in the complex would get Covid they would post a memo on our door stating the a resident tested positive for Covid and is quarantined. They would not tell anyone who it was. They would say _"Due to State and Federal privacy laws and regulations, we are unable to share information about specific residents or team members"_


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## MarciKS (May 15, 2021)

*rolls eyes*
HIPAA only applies to covered entities. If someone at a hospital or nursing home tells someone your health information that's a violation. If Walmart wants to know if you've had your vax in order to determine if you go in with or without a mask that's not the same thing.


----------



## John cycling (May 15, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Are they forcing people in the north to get vaccinated?  It said they were going house to house to vaccinate.





hollydolly said:


> yes they are going house to house.. this is not the first Rodeo for those areas in the north ....so this time they really have to have it explained to them how important it is to be vaccinated.



Yikes that would scare the **** out of me.  I live in a nice place in California due to the great climate here, but have been considering the possibility to get in my car, leave and head to South Dakota or some other relatively free state like Texas or Florida.  My friend just moved back from Florida and said it is too crowded there, the storms are scary, and he became more aware of the rising waters.  

I've only traveled through South Dakota once when quite young.  My prime motivation throughout my life has been staying healthy and free, and my greatest fear is being held down and poisoned against my will with no choice, as I've seen and known happen to so many other people and their lives completely destroyed.  I hope that's not something they do here, but would not be surprised if it happens.


----------



## hollydolly (May 15, 2021)

John cycling said:


> Yikes that would scare the **** out of me.  I live in a nice place in California due to the great climate here, but have been considering the possibility to get in my car, leave and head to South Dakota or some other relatively free state like Texas or Florida.  My friend just moved back from Florida and said it is too crowded there, the storms are scary, and he became more aware of the rising waters.
> 
> I've only traveled through South Dakota once when quite young. * My prime motivation throughout my life has been staying healthy and free, and my greatest fear is being held down and poisoned against my will with no choice, as I've seen and known happen to so many other people and their lives completely destroyed.  I hope that's not something they do here, but would not be surprised if it happens.*


First of all no-one is going to be forced to have the vaccine, but these particular parts of the country have had extremely high levels of Covid-19 in the past,  many are Asian( Indian & Pakistani)  communities, and haven't taken the Pandemic seriously, and therefore they've continued to have higher levels than the rest of the country. Now with the Indian variant attacking our shores, it's important that these cities with the high Indian populations understand the importance of being vaccinated..


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 15, 2021)

John cycling said:


> Yikes that would scare the **** out of me.  I live in a nice place in California due to the great climate here, but have been considering the possibility to get in my car, leave and head to South Dakota or some other relatively free state like Texas or Florida.  My friend just moved back from Florida and said it is too crowded there, the storms are scary, and he became more aware of the rising waters.
> 
> I've only traveled through South Dakota once when quite young.  My prime motivation throughout my life has been staying healthy and free, and my greatest fear is being held down and poisoned against my will with no choice, as I've seen and known happen to so many other people and their lives completely destroyed.  I hope that's not something they do here, but would not be surprised if it happens.


I doubt you will like the Dakotas, north or south


----------



## StarSong (May 15, 2021)

win231 said:


> f we are to believe what they're telling us, I don't think 560,000 deaths amounts to "Keeping us reasonably safe."


Depends on how many might have died without precautionary measures being taken.  Also depends on how many people ignored those precautions.  

The news was full of stories about people attending large parties, gatherings and events. Sturgis comes immediately to mind, but there were dozens of others.


----------



## StarSong (May 15, 2021)

chic said:


> I hope they disappear here as well. Our governor still won't allow it but says changes are coming early next week. I hope so. I've been sitting in cars since last September because stores everywhere won't let me in without a mask. You can't fully understand how much this damages you until you've lived through it like I have.


People who couldn't wear masks have had the option of wearing a face shield instead.


----------



## Aneeda72 (May 15, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Depends on how many might have died without precautionary measures being taken.  Also depends on how many people ignored those precautions.
> 
> The news was full of stories about people attending large parties, gatherings and events. Sturgis comes immediately to mind, but there were dozens of others.


@win231 well, one section of our past governing body did not keep us safe, while the new governing body is doing its best to keep us safe.  You got to go with the flow.


----------



## John cycling (May 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> many are Asian( Indian & Pakistani)  communities, and haven't taken the Pandemic seriously, and therefore they've continued to have higher levels than the rest of the country. Now with the Indian variant attacking our shores, it's important that these cities with the high Indian populations understand the importance of being vaccinated..



That looks like a feeble excuse to invade communities of other ethnicities, which is sad, really sad.

I'm probably the only one here who's actually looked for evidence of there being a real virus, and have found it to be completely absent.  As I have pointed out and provided evidence for elsewhere, a covid19 virus has never been isolated from uncontaminated human genetic material, which is a requirement to prove that a virus exists.  Yet that has never been done.  Yet the madness and misinformation continues.

Blaming deaths caused by real known conditions on a virus that has never been isolated, tested and proven, is simply a blatant excuse to fool people who are way too trusting of powerful people into giving up their freedoms and rights to live healthy and happy productive lives.  Instead of having our freedoms to live healthy and happily, we're being constantly bombarded and harassed by these draconian measures.

Many real scientists around the world, not pseudoscience lobbyists who work for big pharma, have been pointing out the same things.


----------



## Packerjohn (May 15, 2021)

Out in the country they say, "Some folks lie, some folks steal and some folks don't."  Me, I say, "some folks wear masks and some folks don't."  This pandemic now has become so trendy and so ingrained in many folks I wouldn't be surprised to hear about some people being put in their coffin wearing those awful diapers.  Why you say, their dead, Covid can't get them?  I say, they want to be protected when they go "on the other side."    With all those millions in heaven or maybe in Hell, social distancing is gonna be pretty hard.  Best to be protected.  LOL  Think about it!


----------



## Sunny (May 15, 2021)

> Many real scientists around the world, not pseudoscience lobbyists who work for big pharma, have been pointing out the same things.



Really, John?  Can you show us any evidence at all of "real scientists" pointing out that the virus is simply a fictitious tale, made up to fool us all into supporting "big pharma?"  And the whole world is naive enough to believe this lie?  Who are these real scientists?

And what about the millions who have died?  What do you think they have died of?


----------



## ProTruckDriver (May 15, 2021)

Sunny said:


> And what about the millions who have died? What do you think they have died of?


Just my opinion but I believe a good percentage died from influenza and not Covid.
Look at the tracking of influenza in Virginia, bottomed out 2020-21, no activity. Now look at 2019-20, widespread.


----------



## StarSong (May 15, 2021)

Shaking my head...


----------



## Warrigal (May 15, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> Just my opinion but I believe a good percentage died from influenza and not Covid.
> Look at the tracking of influenza in Virginia, bottomed out 2020-21, no activity. Now look at 2019-20, widespread.
> 
> View attachment 165110


The above is a very strange looking graph. Where did it come from? How large is the population for which the data applies? What does ILI refer to?


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## fmdog44 (May 15, 2021)

63.3% of Americans still not fully vaccinated according to NBC Saturday nightly news 5/15/21


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## Sunny (May 15, 2021)

Probably most of them, or at least many, are children or teenagers.

About the flu, everything I've read about it is that there was practically no flu this last winter. One possible reason is that so many people were wearing masks. And of course, most of us were staying home and not mingling, except with our immediate family.


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## ProTruckDriver (May 15, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> The above is a very strange looking graph. Where did it come from? How large is the population for which the data applies? What does ILI refer to?


https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/epidemiology/influenza-flu-in-virginia/influenza-surveillance/


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## ProTruckDriver (May 15, 2021)

Sunny said:


> About the flu, everything I've read about it is that there was practically no flu this last winter.


Links please.


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## Jules (May 15, 2021)

Sunny said:


> About the flu, everything I've read about it is that there was practically no flu this last winter. One possible reason is that so many people were wearing masks. And of course, most of us were staying home and not mingling, except with our immediate family.


And most flus are spread by contact.  Over the past year, people haven’t been touching dirty things like shopping cart handles, etc because stores & elsewhere have been sanitizing things.  Masks have discouraged us touching our eyes and nose.  Bottom line, we’ve been much cleaner.  Maybe we’ll have learned some good habits that will last.


----------



## Sunny (May 15, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> Links please.


Here's one:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-the-flu-season-basically-disappeared-this-year


----------



## Warrigal (May 15, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/epidemiology/influenza-flu-in-virginia/influenza-surveillance/


Thanks for the link. For every effect there must be one or more causes and I have been trying to read the graph with that in mind. I was having a good deal of trouble making sense of it all.

The link led me to this information that was not apparent from the static graph.



> Due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, the Virginia Department of Health (VDH) has changed the way pneumonia and influenza  (P&I) deaths are aggregated.
> 
> Traditionally, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and VDH have reported pneumonia and influenza together in order to better measure the burden of influenza-related deaths. When people die of the flu, they are more likely to die from a complication of the flu infection - not from the original infection itself. These complications can include pneumonia, sepsis, or exacerbation of underlying conditions like heart disease and diabetes. When presented together, P&I deaths are a better measure of influenza-related mortality. For more information, please visit: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm.
> 
> ...



I'm still not sure how this affects the graph but it appears that the method of reporting was changed from one season to the next, which would be enough to cause the 2020/21 season to look very different to the 2019/20 season ???? I'm surmising that 2019/20 is reporting influenza, pneumonia and other bronchial infections but not COVID as flu deaths but in 2020/21 influenza was included with COVID which is why on that graph it seems to have disappeared ???

I would love any further clarification as I am still a little puzzled as to why the two lines are so different.

I take the point made by others that avoiding one virus by behaviour modification such as social distancing, avoiding crowds, better hygiene and cleanliness and mask wearing, will limit all kinds of diseases, including COVID, influenza, viral and bacterial pneumonia and possibly even asthma. My grand daughter who is severely asthmatic was free of it last Winter and only had a bad attack when the fireys started control burning as Summer approached. One personal anecdote means nothing however, which is why I am interested in graphs compiled from systematically gathered data sets. When the method of data collection is changed it must inevitably alter the look of the graph.


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## StarSong (May 16, 2021)

@Warrigal, thank you for investigating this and reporting what you found.


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## garyt1957 (May 16, 2021)

John cycling said:


> That looks like a feeble excuse to invade communities of other ethnicities, which is sad, really sad.
> 
> I'm probably the only one here who's actually looked for evidence of there being a real virus, and have found it to be completely absent.  As I have pointed out and provided evidence for elsewhere, a covid19 virus has never been isolated from uncontaminated human genetic material, which is a requirement to prove that a virus exists.  Yet that has never been done.  Yet the madness and misinformation continues.
> 
> ...


So when my nephews inlaws both died from covid within 5 days of each other it was all make believe? Damn, wish I knew that before they were cremated.


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## garyt1957 (May 16, 2021)

John cycling said:


> I'm probably the only one here who's actually looked for evidence of there being a real virus, and have found it to be completely absent.  As I have pointed out and provided evidence for elsewhere, a covid19 virus has never been isolated from uncontaminated human genetic material, which is a requirement to prove that a virus exists.  Yet that has never been done.  Yet the madness and misinformation continues.


The Covid-19 virus has been isolated many times - Full Fact

The Covid-19 virus has not been isolated as per Koch’s postulates, and this means PCR tests do not work.
OUR VERDICT​This is untrue. Covid-19 has been isolated many times. It does not need to adhere to Koch’s postulates as it is a virus, and Koch’s rules have been widely disregarded now. Covid-19 PCR tests are generally very accurate.

The Covid-19 virus has not been isolated as per Koch’s postulates, and this means PCR tests do not work.
OUR VERDICT​This is untrue. Covid-19 has been isolated many times. It does not need to adhere to Koch’s postulates as it is a virus, and Koch’s rules have been widely disregarded now. Covid-19 PCR tests are generally very accurate.
Fact check: The virus that causes COVID-19 has been isolated, and is the basis for the vaccines currently in development | Reuters
Social media posts have suggested that the contents of the vaccines for COVID-19 are not known, because the virus that causes the disease has not been isolated. This is not true.

The virus that causes COVID-19 exists and was identified and isolated multiple times by independent research groups - Health Feedback

Posts falsely claim COVID-19 virus has not yet been isolated (apnews.com)

I could go on, but why bother?


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## JonDouglas (May 16, 2021)

*So, how are things going with the pandemic?*  Here is another view on the subject from an article entitled Covid Deaths Polummet As Excess Mortality Falls To Pre-Covid Levels.  Below are some choice bits:  

_As of May 11, only one-third of Americans had been fully vaccinated, although "experts" insist 60 to 70 percent of the population must be vaccinated before we can expect to see a drop-off in deaths like that which occurred earlier this year._​​_Yet, as of the week of March 22—excess mortality was below both the 2015-2019 average and below the total for the last year before the official beginning of the covid pandemic (2019)... It's likely these facts won’t stop “public health” bureaucrats from continuing to insist that another “wave” of covid deaths and cases is right around the corner. These activists have many strategies for pushing vaccine passports, mask mandates, and even continual precautionary business closures. They’ll tell us that new covid variants are sweeping the globe. This is what they were saying in January, for instance, when Vox was telling us it was too dangerous to even visit the grocery store. At least one expert in late January warned us that the coming weeks would be “the darkest weeks of the pandemic.”_​​_It’s now clear such predictions were spectacularly wrong. By late January, totals deaths were already in precipitous decline._​​_But what about the lag in data? We're only looking at data up to mid-March because it tends to take several weeks for estimates of total deaths to become reasonably reliable. Yes, that data shows a big drop off. But what about the numbers for April and May? Should we expect those death totals to surge again with a promised “fourth wave” of new covid death?_​​_If we consider the more recent case and death totals attributed to covid, we see few signs of a new surge._​​_Although Anthony Fauci and other government employed technocrats have been unable to provide any explanation at all for it, the fact remains that months after Texas and Florida and Georgia have either abolished or greatly scaled back all social-distancing and mask mandates, cases and deaths are generally declining, and total deaths per million (attributed to covid) remain below what we've seen in states with severe lockdowns._​​The article has data and charts for those who like such information.


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## Sunny (May 16, 2021)

All these snarky comments and name-calling about Dr. Fauci remind me of the kids in school making fun of the class genius. They can't deal with the fact that he/she is so much more intelligent and educated than they are that they can't even begin to conceive of the difference. So they resort to making them pariahs.

Except that many of these pariahs grow up to accomplish amazing things for the world. Some of their discoveries save millions of lives. And the name-callers still can't bring themselves to admit that they were wrong, and probably couldn't begin to understand the science and technology on so high a level, so they continue the childish lies, insults, name-calling, as if they were still in the schoolyard.

And meanwhile, many of us, possibly most, have Dr. Fauci and the other hard-working scientists and medical workers to thank for the fact that we are still alive. These people have put in a heroic effort against a common enemy. Maybe it's time to say thank you?


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## Don M. (May 16, 2021)

We chose to believe in the scientists rather than some individual personal feelings and doubts.  Those who refuse to acknowledge the severity of this virus can do so....I just hope we don't come into close contact with them.


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## Packerjohn (May 17, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Really, John?  Can you show us any evidence at all of "real scientists" pointing out that the virus is simply a fictitious tale, made up to fool us all into supporting "big pharma?"  And the whole world is naive enough to believe this lie?  Who are these real scientists?
> 
> And what about the millions who have died?  What do you think they have died of?


The virus is real but so is the flu and so is the common cold.  We are just going to have to live with this Covid-19 and all those "Variants of Interests" that the media loves to talk about.  The survival rate is pretty good for Covid-19.  In the province where I live 1,000 people have died.  We have a population of 1.3 million.  That means 0.0007692 of the population here died.  That's peanuts and no reason for the media to scream and yell their heads off.  A lot more people die of cancer each year around here.  When you talk of the "millions" that have died your looking at the whole over populated planet which these days has a population of 7.9 billion.  According to the World Health Organization (WHO) 3.4 million people have died from this pandemic.  When you look at the big picture that means 0.01854 of the world's population has died.  Peanuts again but who am I to "blow against the wind?"  Furthermore, many of those that died had other health problems.  Why believe the media that drolls on bad news.  I prefer to sit on the sunny side of life.  Life is too short to be wasted by bearing of constant doom and gloom.  Time for a walk in the park to smell the flowers because life is good.


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## Aneeda72 (May 17, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> The virus is real but so is the flu and so is the common cold.  We are just going to have to live with this Covid-19 and all those "Variants of Interests" that the media loves to talk about.  The survival rate is pretty good for Covid-19.  In the province where I live 1,000 people have died.  We have a population of 1.3 million.  That means 0.0007692 of the population here died.  That's peanuts and no reason for the media to scream and yell their heads off.  A lot more people die of cancer each year around here.  When you talk of the "millions" that have died your looking at the whole over populated planet which these days has a population of 7.9 billion.  According to the World Health Organization (WHO) 3.4 million people have died from this pandemic.  When you look at the big picture that means 0.01854 of the world's population has died.  Peanuts again but who am I to "blow against the wind?"  Furthermore, many of those that died had other health problems.  Why believe the media that drolls on bad news.  I prefer to sit on the sunny side of life.  Life is too short to be wasted by bearing of constant doom and gloom.  Time for a walk in the park to smell the flowers because life is good.


It is peanuts unless, you know, you are the one that’s died, then @Packerjohn you are not sitting on the sunny side of life; but on the dark side, feeding the worms.


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