# from Las Vegas to Oregon (yesterday) shooting



## Davey Jones (Jun 11, 2014)

And that idiot says "'This is becoming the norm.'

President Obama said Tuesday the nation should do "some soul-searching": over its epidemic of deadly gun violence and "should be ashamed" it has been unable to address it.

Isnt it the President job to protect us? 

Did he call the NRA and ask for permission to say that?


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## rt3 (Jun 11, 2014)

Davey why are you obsessed with the NRA, there are several groups more political than them, and they claim the NRA isn't protecting gun rights enough. (they say the NRA is to liberal).


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## drifter (Jun 11, 2014)

The majority in this country have spoken. There is no problem.


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## Jackie22 (Jun 12, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> And that idiot says "'This is becoming the norm.'
> 
> President Obama said Tuesday the nation should do "some soul-searching": over its epidemic of deadly gun violence and "should be ashamed" it has been unable to address it.
> 
> ...



Davey, just what would you have the president do about gun control?

In 2013 President Obama put forth 23 executive proposals on gun CONTROL to congress.

The NRA controlled congress voted it down.....I guess he could issue executive orders...that would bring on a civil war with the gun mentally in this country.


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## rt3 (Jun 12, 2014)

Sorry the NRA doesn't control congress, the civil war would result because the Pres issues the orders without consulting congress, which is the law, which makes him the lawbreaker.  I wish the NRA did control congress, because I'm the NRA , my neighbor is the NRA , its a membership of about 5 mil people who don't agree with you on the 2nd amendment.  By the what other amendments would you like to do away with while we are getting to your nature?


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## Jackie22 (Jun 12, 2014)

There were 291 executive orders issued by George W Bush...


http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/orders/


Did you get on forums and moan about him breaking the law?  What was  it you were saying about kakka?




55% of Americans are for increased gun control...thats around 160 million


http://www.gallup.com/poll/167135/americans-dissatisfaction-gun-laws-highest-2001.aspx







You made the remark that California's gun laws were a laughing stock.....


[h=1]"What The Rest Of America Can Learn From California's Strict Gun Laws"[/h]
_by Pamela Engel at Business Insider_ 

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-californias-gun-laws-have-worked-2013-8 

"SNIP............................... 

California, the state with the strictest gun laws in the country, has seen a 56% drop in its gun death rate in the past 20 years, according to a study that the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence released last week. 

The study points out that 5,500 Californians were killed by gunfire in 1993, but that number dropped to 2,935 by 2010. The number of people per 100,000 who were killed by guns also dropped dramatically from 1990 to 2010 (see chart at right, and note that the numbers on the Y axis seem to be spaced unevenly). 

While violent crime (including gun deaths) dropped everywhere in the U.S. during the 1990s, gun deaths declined even more in the Golden State. The nonprofit Law Center argues that there's a correlation between the state's strict gun laws and the dramatic drop in the number of deaths from guns. 

This theory is bolstered by other studies done elsewhere — a Center for American Progress study found that states with the weakest gun laws have the highest rates of gun violence, and a study released by Boston Children's Hospital in March found that states with more gun laws have fewer gun-related deaths. 




I'm finished with this thread, but I think some of the people in other countries that scratch their head and wonder 'what the h*ll' about our gun problem can easily see why it never gets solved


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## WhatInThe (Jun 12, 2014)

There are so many issues with mass murder and spree killings. Including the fact that most of these cowards want to or wind up taking themselves out. Perhaps it's time to make self inflicted suicide acceptable, honorable and legal. This would take away the extreme motivation of having actually murdered someone and face the death penalty or life in prison. Japan has a very low murder rate and yet one of the highest suicide rates in the world. It's not just guns it's mindset/culture. What kind of mindset allows a gang banger to shoot innocent civilians and kids as part of doing business year in year out. 

And not to get all conspiracy but a lot of pieces of crap were medicated and already in "the system". The whack job from Seattle wasn't on his meds. One must look at not only why was he not medicated but why the medication didn't eliminate homicidal or suicidal thoughts. If you look at the Seattle coward piece of crap killer he looks like a man disappointed he didn't get to kill himself. 

If life bothers you that much stay out of other peoples lives or accept the fact that it's time to permanently quit life by your own doing.


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## Davey Jones (Jun 12, 2014)

Jackie22 said:


> Davey, just what would you have the president do about gun control?
> 
> In 2013 President Obama put forth 23 executive proposals on gun CONTROL to congress.
> 
> The NRA controlled congress voted it down.....I guess he could issue executive orders...that would bring on a civil war with the gun mentally in this country.




To tell ya the truth I have no idea what we can do to stop all these innocents from being killed by bullets from any weapon.
I could argue that The *Second Amendment*  was the right thing to do at THAT TIME in 1792 until some thought we should ALL be armed to the teeth. 
I dont believe at that time those in Congress had any idea what was to happen with that ruling TODAY,otherwise they would have never voted for it.


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## rt3 (Jun 12, 2014)

please I'm not a republican -- don't lecture me,  bush passed some of the most obtrusive gun laws on the books, I thank Clinton and Obama for selling more guns and increasing the awareness of 2nd amendment violations by their very own agendas -- quite a difference

your statistics on gun control are incorrect, a CNN mental sex offense. Latest polls even by Gallup show 60% 

the rest of your statistics are skewed also, and cannot be supported by either Dept. of Justice or FBI  and states and citiies having the strictest laws have the higest per capita rate of gun related crimes.  It the apples and oranges comparison anti gun people love to quote so much, but when comparisons are being done they fall short--- check into the accuracy of the school shootings if you doubt it


I think the founding fathers new exactly what they were doing by including the 2nd amendment. So does 80% of Americans, sense you get a comfort in numbers, but I really don't want to pull the democracy card because that would be something you would do. So like chicken little I will yell the sky is falling. (most Americans believe in the 2nd, a lot just think there should be something like registration so hows that for statistic manipulation.)


the law center for gun prevention has nothing to do with "law" its a PAC run and owned by Bloomberg, most of their statistics are from domestic violence and suicide which can't be included in a legit stat.


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## WhatInThe (Jun 12, 2014)

One thing I would do to help prevent or supplement anti violence efforts is that ALL students/kids must go through some kind of scared straight program, not as harsh as an actual offender might get but make them tour a prison. I would also teach gun safety and make mandatory trips to the ER and morgue to see what violence of any kind does and ask them is this what YOU really want?


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## Davey Jones (Jun 12, 2014)

re: Japan's suicide numbers for years DOUBLED US homicide numbers(it was roughly 30,000 suicides in Japan vs 15,000 murders US) and yet their murder numbers are far less than the US. 

Good post...but

 What does one REALLY have to do with the other?


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## Ina (Jun 12, 2014)

A lot of these killers want more than just suicide by cop. A lot of them want recognition from their peers as the killer who can take out the most targets. Our movies and video games glorify the killer with the highest score. 
You and I are not their peers, nor the ones them are trying to impress. They are trying to be what they see in the games and movies that their elders should never have allowed to be put into their formative years. 
We use to restrict violence and ****** matter in even our adult movies, and kids were never allowed in to see what we adults deemed harmful to a youngster's formative minds.
Some idiots decided the money was more important than the impressionable minds of our youth.
  :iwillbeback::hiteachother:


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## WhatInThe (Jun 12, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> re: Japan's suicide numbers for years DOUBLED US homicide numbers(it was roughly 30,000 suicides in Japan vs 15,000 murders US) and yet their murder numbers are far less than the US.
> 
> Good post...but
> 
> What does one REALLY have to do with the other?



That thread started out as saying if suicide was more acceptable there might fewer mass killings. The inverse statistical relationship of murder vs suicide in Japan and America shows that. 30,000 people a year KILLED themselves in Japan while 15,000 a year are killed in the US.. Suicide seems to be more accepted and even considered honorable in many Asian cultures including Japan. It also shows the anger or rage of person at the world because both the murderer and suicider were able to KILL even if themselves. Wouldn't if be better if one took their anger out on themselves and not others. In other words make suicide more acceptable in the US.

And if you want to play with statistics just think what Japan's murder rate would be if just a third of those suiciders decided to take just one person out with them. That would be an additional 10,000 murders a year in a smaller country. By the same token what if a fraction of the mass murders took themselves out first what the mass murder numbers would look like in the US. You might look at suicide as a safety valve of sorts. But in the US suicide is frowned upon. More legal and social acceptance of suicide would make it much easier for these mass murders to kill themselves only. Let's face many of them were "done" years ago. The Elliot I want a blonde killer was in therapy most of his life, I can see him thinking it's got to end(not by killing others but I get his urge to end it, sos in his world) There is a lot of suicide by cop in these killings and there is the extreme motivation factor of committing such a heinous act they must end it. Wouldn't taking away the extreme motivation factor by making suicide more acceptable also make it easier for these mass murders to take themselves out before they kill others?


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## Warrigal (Jun 12, 2014)

I have just stumbled on a possible explanation for the apparently high rate of suicide in Japan vs the low rate of murder.
It would appear that a lot of the suicides are actually murders.



> [h=1]The secret of Japan’s mysteriously low crime rate[/h]Japan is often considered slightly _odd_ compared to other countries. Its economic success, distinct culture and disciplined population has made Japan rather unique, and produced one of the lowest crime rates in the world. The country has 127 million people yet street crime is almost unheard of; the murder rate is only lower in tiny Monaco and Palau, and the use of drugs is minimal compared to other industrialized countries. The Japanese intolerance to illicit drugs  – seen as evidence of bad personal character – were demonstrated with the national outrage the followed when two well-known sumo wrestlers tested positive for marijuana in 2008.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Davey Jones (Jun 13, 2014)

*WhatInThe* ... *Dame Warrigal* 

Thanks both of ya, thats good stuff to read.


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## rt3 (Jun 13, 2014)

It is a good thing to empathize with the sorrows of humanity, especially when packed like rats on sinking ship. Which incidentally have been studied for correlations with human behavior on this very topic, but beside the point. The only person you can really do anything about is yourself. So returning to the topic more or less, mostly more because the OP should be blaming someone like the Sporting Goods Council, who is the one actually paying the political lobbies, not the NRA, and the OP doesn't even know how the topic got changed, if you have decided to opt out of your own defense, -- Do you get to vote on the subject?? Especially if your vote affects someone who hasn't?


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## Davey Jones (Jun 13, 2014)

I have no idea what the heck you just posted,all 121 words of it .



:cheerful:


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## rt3 (Jun 13, 2014)

I guess you mean me. at last we are communicating.


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