# Death Penalty



## Kaya (May 30, 2014)

Are you for it or against it or does it depend?


----------



## kcvet (May 30, 2014)

for it. fry em


----------



## Warrigal (May 30, 2014)

Judicial homicide can and does result in innocent people being killed, so I am against the death penalty.
This is not to say that I don't think that some crimes deserve it but the misapplication of the law cannot be eliminated with 100% certainty. I don't accept the execution of the innocent to be an acceptable instance of collateral damage.


----------



## Kaya (May 30, 2014)

I'm with you, kcvet.


----------



## mellow (May 30, 2014)

We are far too soft and continue to keep monsters alive who don't deserve to live, so yes I would vote to bring back the death penalty, even though it will never happen.


----------



## Bee (May 30, 2014)

I am _*not*_ in favour of the death penalty but I have often wondered about people that are in favour of the death penalty, if they could actually do the deed themselves.


----------



## Kaya (May 30, 2014)

Yes. I could do it, Bee. Looking at the pics of the victims? Yep. I could.


----------



## Pam (May 30, 2014)

Against.


----------



## Bee (May 31, 2014)

Kaya said:


> Yes. I could do it, Bee. Looking at the pics of the victims? Yep. I could.




....and how would you feel further down the line to find out that person was innocent and should never have been put to death.

We have had a few high profile cases in the U.K. where it has been found a person  should never have been hung.


----------



## Kaya (May 31, 2014)

If it came out later the person was innocent, then yes, I would feel bad. But not many ARE innocent.


----------



## i_am_Lois (May 31, 2014)

I am completely for the death penalty.
I just wish the criminals who do get a sentence of death didn't then sit in prison for decades while their cases go through countless appeals.


----------



## mellow (May 31, 2014)

And very easy if it was someone you loved very much.


----------



## Kaya (May 31, 2014)

Ditto

And

Ditto


----------



## Justme (May 31, 2014)

No civilised country should have the death penalty, imo.


----------



## Warrigal (May 31, 2014)

I feel 'bad' when I forget someone's birthday.
If I executed an innocent man or woman, I don't think 'bad' would cover it.
And I don't think it would be adequate to describe the feelings of his/her relatives.

But the person who was really guilty probably would feel very relieved.

What is the acceptable ratio of executions of guilty people to innocent ones? 10:1, 100:1. 1000:1 or 1,000,000 to 1 ?
I guess the answer to that question depends on whether you are the one on death row and know that you are innocent.

I've heard of The Justice Project where convicted inmates can get help to prove their innocence. Of course, to do that, you have to be still alive.

This case study shows how innocent people can be found easily guilty. In this case, he was not sentenced to death and the injustice was eventually corrected. This is from the Arizona Justice Project



> *Brandon Jordan*
> 
> *Wrongfully Convicted*
> 
> ...


Who said convict and execute on the same day? Why bother with a trial at all? Vigilante justice is a lot cheaper after all.


----------



## mellow (May 31, 2014)

An animal called Warren Ross has just been sentenced to a minimum of 30 years yesterday for killing his girlfriend’s 2 year old daughter.  Her mother Donna Deaves, a mother of three, had only moved in with him a few weeks earlier and did nothing to stop the abuse of her daughter.  

But the little girl couldn’t get toilet trained quick enough for Ross and he killed her after she soiled herself while running laps around the lounge room as punishment.
He took her to the shower and Ms Deaves heard a "shuddering thud" from the bathroom and went to look.  "You don't like cold water do you?" Ross said to Tanilla. "You don't shit in my house, you're an animal."  She was shivering and her mother said`that's enough; she doesn't look good'." Ross slapped Deaves hard in the face and shoved her away. He banged Tanilla's head, which he was still holding onto, into the glass of the shower twice.  Then he held Tanilla over the toilet by one leg as she cried and screamed. He shouted at her: "You're a black dog, you're a black ****."  He kicked and shoved Tanilla and she hit her head on a cupboard.
She was left in a pram that Thursday night until Saturday morning - entirely ignored by the family - before she was discovered dead from a cerebral haematoma caused by severe bleeding on her brain.
This man deserves a bullet, right between the eyes and I'd be happy to pull the trigger.


----------



## littleowl (May 31, 2014)

With the advancement of DNA the death penalty should be bought back.
A short rope and a long drop will solve a lot of problems. Plus millions of pounds saved in keeping them in luxury in her Majesty's hotels..


----------



## Jillaroo (May 31, 2014)

_*When it is beyond doubt that the person charged committed the crime, then the death penalty should be served, why should they be allowed to live in luxury in prison and we pay for them*_:tapfoot:


----------



## Warrigal (May 31, 2014)

Every criminal conviction is supposed to be beyond doubt, but clearly some of them aren't.


----------



## meg (May 31, 2014)

I am against.  I feel that if we kill the murderers, we are doing exactly the same thing that they did.  I do think that they should be put in special jails with no tvs etc. Basic food and drink and hard labour for the rest of their lives and should not be let out.   (However, I know it would be against their 'civil rights' as usual).


----------



## rkunsaw (May 31, 2014)

I strongly favor the death penalty. Of course we need to be certain but in nearly all cases where the death penalty is an option there is absolute proof.


----------



## CPA-Kim (May 31, 2014)

Violent crimes are not deterred by the death penalty but that is not why I am against it.

I don't think anyone has the right to end the life of another person.  Unfortunately, our collective world has not yet evolved to this realization.


----------



## Davey Jones (May 31, 2014)

This subject has been done to (ahem) death which I am in favor of when one takes anothers life.


----------



## Bullie76 (May 31, 2014)

For it.


----------



## kcvet (May 31, 2014)

back in the old days when Britians prisons were overflowing they took them to an island called Australia. and we have have plenty. some surrounded by sharks. just a thought


----------



## Kaya (May 31, 2014)

It may have been done to death, Davey, but not since I have been here. Its a topic. Conversation. Which is the point of being here, yes?

Mellow...I'd like to be the one that pulls the switch on the hangmans rope on that guy. No bullets. Too fast. I want him to suffer like that kid did. And yes..I would stand there and watch while calling him a dog as he gasps his last. Which is an insult to dogs, by the way.


----------



## Sunny (May 31, 2014)

Texas is the state that commits the atrocity of the death penalty more than any other. When they started DNA testing, they found many people on death row in that state whose DNA proved them innocent!  If this happened to even ONE person, it would be a sufficient argument against the death penalty.

Abolishing this penalty doesn't mean letting hardened criminals go free. A life sentence without parole is a worse punishment, IMO. The state should be above acting out "revenge."


----------



## mellow (May 31, 2014)

Kaya said:


> It may have been done to death, Davey, but not since I have been here. Its a topic. Conversation. Which is the point of being here, yes?
> 
> Mellow...I'd like to be the one that pulls the switch on the hangmans rope on that guy. No bullets. Too fast. I want him to suffer like that kid did. And yes..I would stand there and watch while calling him a dog as he gasps his last. Which is an insult to dogs, by the way.


Agree, crimes like that one deserve the ultimate punishment.


----------



## Warrigal (Jun 1, 2014)

kcvet said:


> back in the old days when Britians prisons were overflowing they took them to an island called Australia. and we have have plenty. some surrounded by sharks. just a thought


Only the ones they didn't hang. Most were lesser criminals - cut purses, thieves, whores and forgers for the most part. In those days Britain and the fledgling colony of New South Wales were both in the habit of hanging men and sometimes women too but that was 200 years ago. Since then we've evolved. 

The last man hanged in Australia was Ronald Ryan in 1953 and in Britain it was two men, Gwynne Evans and Peter Allen who were executed on the same day at the same time in 1964, but in separate gaols. That's 61 and 50 years respectively. So no innocent people have been executed for at least half a century in these two countries. 

The last execution in Canada was the double hanging of Arthur Lucas and Ronald Turpin on December 11, 1962. The death penalty for murder was abolished in New Zealand in 1961 and the last hanging on 18 Feb 1957 at Auckland was botched resulting in strangulation rather than a broken neck. 

Most English speaking nations have abandoned the death penalty quite some time ago. Even South Africa abolished the death penalty in 1995 and Fiji in 2002. The USA is one of the very few countries in the Anglosphere that still allows it.


----------



## Davey Jones (Jun 1, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> The last execution in Canada was the double hanging of Arthur Lucas and Ronald Turpin on December 11, 1962. The death penalty for murder was abolished in New Zealand in 1961 and *the last hanging on 18 Feb 1957 at Auckland was botched resulting in strangulation rather than a broken neck.*


Nothing wrong with that.....as long as he's dead.


----------



## Warrigal (Jun 1, 2014)

Davey, not only was the execution botched, the trial and verdict may have been too. This was a 68 year old farmer, accused of poisoning his wife.



> *The last execution in New Zealand: Walter Bolton, 18 February 1957*
> 
> Walter Bolton was the last person to be executed in New Zealand when he was convicted of poisoning his wife Beatrice. He was hanged for her murder at Mount Eden prison. The death penalty for murder was abolished in New Zealand in 1961, and there were claims that this was due partly to the circumstances surrounding Bolton's case.
> 
> ...


Two hours and ten minutes was all it took to proclaim him guilty. Was he condemned for poisoning his wife, or because he was shagging her sister? Too late now to go back over the evidence. Too late five minutes after he was hanged.


----------



## drifter (Jun 2, 2014)

I've always been for the dealth penalty which is still alive and well in Texas where I have lived most of my life. The only thing that gives me pause is this. In the state of Texas a conviction in a court of law carries with that conviction a star for a District Attorney. A District Attorney is one of the first steps up the political ladder in Texas. A dealth conviction earns a DA a gold star. Several gold stars and the DA is automattically assured a shot at Governor or Senator or Railroad Commissioner or some other high office that earns political points. It's easy to forget that innocent men might get convicted in the pursuit of a career. It's like scoring touchdowns, only the score or the career counts. In such a climate, the innocent can lose out. I'm for the death penalty but DNA should be used to the fullest in all death case convictions.


----------



## Ina (Jun 2, 2014)

As another Texan, I agree with all Drifter said.


----------



## Mirabilis (Jun 2, 2014)

Yes, I support death penalty.  If someone committed a heinous crime and is a danger to others then kill them.


----------



## Ina (Jun 2, 2014)

The man that killed my oldest son will be getting out of prison in 2018. That is if they don't let him out earlier for good behaviour, or because of over crouding. He plead out, for twenty-five years. I still don't understand that. There were more than twenty witnesses. He shot my son in the neck, then he beat and broke all the bones in my son's face, then he stood up and kicked in the back of his SCULL. My son had no idea of who he was. He said he had been having an affair with my son wife, and he feared for his own life, if my son found out. This state of Texas let him plead out, and I still don't know why. All I can do is try to make the prisoner serve every day HE agreed to.


----------



## Sid (Jun 2, 2014)

Yes, for the death penalty.


----------



## Ina (Jun 2, 2014)

Ina said:


> The man that killed my oldest son will be getting out of prison in 2018. That is if they don't let him out earlier for good behaviour, or because of over crouding. He plead out, for twenty-five years. I still don't understand that. There were more than twenty witnesses. He shot my son in the neck, then he beat and broke all the bones in my son's face, then he stood up and kicked in the back of his SCULL. My son had no idea of who he was. He said he had been having an affair with my son wife, and he feared for his own life, if my son found out. This state of Texas let him plead out, and I still don't know why. All I can do is try to make the prisoner serve every day HE agreed to.




Even with this knowledge, and if it had ever gone to trial, and if anyone even asked me, I would have said give him life in prison. As horrific as his deeds were, he was motivated by fear. He was not a threat to the general population.
Now if he was someone who killed for profit or even a religion, and posed a continual threat to society, then the Death Penalty
should be used.
But I think the prisoners should be forced to work, and pay for his upkeep, and money should be sent to the dependents of the victim.


----------



## Ina (Jun 2, 2014)

What do you think of making prisoners work to pay for their upkeep, and pay back the cost of damages they caused, and pay for the future support to the victim's dependants?


----------



## Kaya (Jun 2, 2014)

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/06/...d=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2&pLid=483406

How about these two winners? Not the death penalty, no. But 60 years in prison will suffice. They will be 72 when they get out. Perfect.


----------



## Kaya (Jun 2, 2014)

Wow Ina. 

For me...if that were my kid that had his face beat in and skull shattered...I would be looking to see the guy get the same treatment..even if it meant I would get the death penalty.


----------



## Kaya (Jun 2, 2014)

> As horrific as his deeds were, he was motivated by fear. He was not a threat to the general population.



Really. Not a threat to society. Um. Ok.


----------



## Ina (Jun 2, 2014)

Yes Kaya, That's what I mean. There are different types of murder, and those two girls were just caught in the early stages their insanity. You know only a very naive person would ever let them out, and back into society.


----------



## Kaya (Jun 2, 2014)

The world is full of naive people. They might get out. Look what happened with the two that killed that Bulger kid in Britain. They were let loose. Nobody knows where they are, or their new names they were given. Hell, the guy next door could be one of them. You know..the guy that waves to 2 year old kids.


----------

