# Beyond the paIe - a common phrase?



## Jace (Mar 25, 2022)

It seems lately I've been hearing the phrase "beyond the paIe"...

Have you?


----------



## win231 (Mar 25, 2022)

I've only heard that one a couple of times.  What I hear often, is the word _"So"_ before answering a question or explaining something.
And a really stupid phrase, used when someone doesn't want to answer a question:  _"It is what it is."_


----------



## Don M. (Mar 25, 2022)

What's a "commoon" phrase?


----------



## Lavinia (Mar 25, 2022)

Pale refers to a boundary fence (in case you didn't know).


----------



## Jeni (Mar 25, 2022)

win231 said:


> I've only heard that one a couple of times.  What I hear often, is the word _"So"_ before answering a question or explaining something.
> And a really stupid phrase, used when someone doesn't want to answer a question:  _"*It is what it is."*_


I hate that phrase .... is so dismissive... 
IMO people who use this a lot are often submissive and have stand for nothing.


----------



## Jace (Mar 25, 2022)

Don M. said:


> What's a "commoon" phrase?


"Finger fumble"...on a small tablet..misstakes will be made..thrtr I go again!


----------



## hollydolly (Mar 25, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> Pale refers to a boundary fence (in case you didn't know).


yes , we  used to climb the Palings when we were kids rather than walk the long way home from the park








... it's  fortunate we were never impaled as my uncle had been when he was a child.


----------



## jujube (Mar 25, 2022)

"Pale" also refers to an area where certain actions or groups are allowed to exist.  The Pale of Settlement was an area in old Russia in which the Jews were allowed to live and do business, _officially_ without persecution (but we know how THAT worked out).  Go "beyond the Pale" and there are no protections.

There was also a "pale" in Ireland in the late middle ages that was under the control of England.


----------



## timoc (Mar 25, 2022)

A common phrase​
*If you* keep picking your nose your eyeballs will fall out.


----------



## ElCastor (Mar 25, 2022)

My dad, born in a sod house on the Montana prairie, had a couple of old farm sayings that I (ahem) never use, but he obviously loved ...
"Faster than a striped assed ape." and "Built like a brick shithouse."
While on the subject of bad taste, and not exactly a saying, there was an inscription on the wall of a Yellowstone Men's Room that makes me smile ...
"Here I sit broken hearted, ran a mile and only farted".


----------



## feywon (Mar 25, 2022)

win231 said:


> I've only heard that one a couple of times.  What I hear often, is the word _"So"_ before answering a question or explaining something.
> And a really stupid phrase, used when someone doesn't want to answer a question:  _"It is what it is."_


I tend to think people use "It is what is." When they are not open to discussing changes in what is.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Mar 25, 2022)

I've never heard the expression "beyond the pale".
@hollydolly looks like a fence you could have really hurt yourself on if it wasn't climbed just right.


----------



## Lewkat (Mar 25, 2022)

I use that phrase rather often.


----------



## Chris P Bacon (Mar 25, 2022)

I thought it meant that one had overshot the bucket. Beyond the pale just seems easier to say.


----------



## jerry old (Mar 25, 2022)

Catherine the Great (Russia) was supposedly fond of this expression to refer to the *foreigners* that were in a
designated area.
'We can't have these foreigners spreading wild ideas like freedom, equality... keep them beyond the fence (pale) .' 

Beyond the pale, became a expression a Russian could apply to other Russians that he disagreed with, shortly it became a
'loaded' phrase in Czar's Russia-used to depict a Russian that was probably dangerous in his political ideas.

(Yep, carry the secret police on down to Ivan's place and lock his up, he's done gone beyond the pale.)


----------



## Jace (Mar 25, 2022)

Liked many responses!


----------



## hollydolly (Mar 25, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I've never heard the expression "beyond the pale".
> @hollydolly looks like a fence you could have really hurt yourself on if it wasn't climbed just right.


yes you're right lol... we had to be verrrry careful.... My uncle when he was a kid climbed over the palings and one paling went straight through his shin, he was left hanging on the fence for hours before they could pry him off ...but kids are kids and we had no fear then


----------



## Liberty (Mar 25, 2022)

"Own it".


----------



## Autumn72 (Mar 25, 2022)

Not from R I  anymore, liberty......  Texas is where it's at beyond the pales.........Lorraine


----------



## jerry old (Mar 25, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> yes you're right lol... we had to be verrrry careful.... My uncle when he was a kid climbed over the palings and one paling went straight through his shin, he was left hanging on the fence for hours before they could pry him off ...but kids are kids and we had no fear then


1960's (I think) Life Magazine last page used to carry photo's of public interest.
So, they printed a photo of a young adult male who had been walking on a icy sidewalk.

There was a eight foot high iron fence that bordered the sidewalk with the tops sharpened to deter intruders.
On a icy day, a young adult male was walking on the sidewalk, he clutched the top of the fence to maintain his balance.

You guessed it, he slipped impaling his hand on the iron spike of the fence; there he hung like a chicken in a Chinese Butcher shop.
The police were there, but they were making no effort to get the young man off the fence


----------



## win231 (Mar 25, 2022)

Don M. said:


> What's a "commoon" phrase?


One that's not so raiire.


----------



## Medusa (Mar 26, 2022)

I remember hearing the character, "Sheldon," from _The Big Bang Theory_ use, "Beyond the Pale," and I may have used it in the last couple years, but I don't know how much of a hold it still has in the common vanacular.  Personally, I like its clarity and oldworld style.  It's a nicer way of saying, "_over the line, gone too far_, etc." 

I also like, "It is what it is," at least as far as I have used and heard it used. To me it usually refers not to a question, but a situation. The implication being that there's no point in worrying over something that cannot be changed. 

I think, given that answer in response to an open question (which _does _have optional endings), I might feel differently, however.


----------



## JonSR77 (Mar 26, 2022)

Origin of Beyond the Pale...

"Catherine the Great created the _Pale of Settlement_ in Russia in 1791. This was the name given to the western border region of the country, in which Jews were allowed to live. The motivation behind this was to restrict trade between Jews and native Russians. Some Jews were allowed to live, as a concession, 'beyond the pale'."

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/beyond-the-pale.html#:~:text=So to be 'beyond the,Jews were allowed to live.

"Life in the Pale for many was *economically bleak*. Most people relied on small service or artisan work that could not support the number of inhabitants, which resulted in emigration, especially in the late 19th century."

"The concentration of Jews in the Pale, coupled with Tsar Alexander III's "fierce hatred of the Jews", and the rumors that Jews had been involved in the assassination of his father Tsar Alexander II, made them easy targets for pogroms and anti-Jewish riots by the majority population. These, along with the repressive May Laws, often devastated whole communities. Though attacks occurred throughout the existence of the Pale, particularly devastating anti-Jewish pogroms occurred from 1881 to 1883 and from 1903 to 1906, targeting hundreds of communities, assaulting thousands of Jews, and causing considerable property damage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement

My step-father's mother witnessed a pogrom when she was about four. Drunk idiots would ride through towns on horseback and just slash people (including to death) with swords.


----------



## Alligatorob (Mar 26, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> Origin of Beyond the Pale...
> 
> "Catherine the Great created the _Pale of Settlement_ in Russia in 1791.


Found another possible "Origin" - outside of the Dublin area.

http://daysgoneby.me/dyk-beyond-pale-true-meaning/


----------



## Meanderer (Mar 26, 2022)

Trim Castle in County Meath, Ireland, is most famous for two things: It was a primary location in Mel Gibson's historic epic 'Braveheart,' and it also played a key part in originating the phrase 'beyond the pale.'

Where Does 'Beyond the Pale' Come From?


----------



## JonSR77 (Mar 26, 2022)

maybe from Jim Gaffigan...he was a pale tourist...


----------



## JonSR77 (Mar 26, 2022)

or maybe from the cave art of Paleolithic humans, celebrating the murder of a rival clan...like the Cossacks in The Pale of Settlement...


----------



## Paco Dennis (Mar 26, 2022)

Pale person 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





"Beyond the pale" person


----------



## horseless carriage (Mar 26, 2022)

To be 'beyond the pale' is to be unacceptable; outside agreed standards of decency.
However, there is another meaning of 'pale' - 'a stake or pointed piece of wood'. 


This meaning is now virtually obsolete except as used in this phrase. A variant of it - 'paling', is still in use, as in paling fence and 'impale' (as in Dracula movies).


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Mar 26, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> yes you're right lol... we had to be verrrry careful.... My uncle when he was a kid climbed over the palings and one paling went straight through his shin, he was left hanging on the fence for hours before they could pry him off ...but kids are kids and we had no fear then


OMG that sounds horrible!!


----------



## Tish (Mar 26, 2022)

Get on with it.


----------



## Meanderer (Mar 26, 2022)

_Beyond the pail!_


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Apr 4, 2022)

I finally actually heard the term "beyond the pale" used in the Netflix show Bridgerton, about society's elites and royals.


----------



## Bellbird (Apr 5, 2022)

I have used the expression 'beyond the pale' for years, I still do.


----------



## Alligatorob (Apr 5, 2022)




----------



## Della (Apr 5, 2022)

I must have read a few hundred gothic novels and Regency romances in my life, so I have encountered the phrase quite often, the smallest infraction like going out with no hat or gloves, might set one beyond the pale.  

One of my favorite lines using it was in, "The French Lieutenant's Woman."

Sarah says: "I knew it was ordained that I should never marry an equal; so, I married shame. It is my shame that has kept me alive - my knowing that I am truly not like other women. I - I shall never, like them, have - children and a husband, and the pleasures of a home. Sometimes I pity them. I have a freedom they cannot understand. No insult, no blame, can touch me. I have set myself beyond the pale. I am nothing. I am hardly human any more. I am the French lieutenant's - whore!


----------

