# How many single men turn down the chance of relationship with married woman?



## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

Anyone who has followed any of the discussions I've had will have some idea why I might be asking the thread title question.

However, I hope this turns into a more general discussions about the "rights and wrongs" of those choosing to have an affair with someone who is already married, (and I'll admit straight away there are some aspects you could consider as being "right", even if you are the injured party as it were, the one whose partner might have been unfaithful to, because some marriages are ultimately not good for either the man or the woman, so better over, however it might finally happen, or the infidelity aspect).

A serious subject, for all those who dislike serious subjects to avoid, but if you choose to add levity who am I to stop you either!    .


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## EllisT (May 27, 2020)

What could go wrong in this thread?


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## Aunt Marg (May 27, 2020)

Single men or married, when you're a _real_ woman, have _class_, possess _morals_ and _standards_, and have _respect_ for yourself and your partner, you don't buy into relationships and flings outside of the immediate marriage/relationship you're in.

So, it doesn't boil-down to -- "_how many single men turn down the chance of a relationship with married women_", so much as it boils-down to -- how many loose-aa$ women reduce themselves to such a low level.


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## Don M. (May 27, 2020)

IMO, ANY married individual...either man or woman...who fools around with another, is unworthy of their spouses trust and respect.


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## Keesha (May 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Anyone who has followed any of the discussions I've had will have some idea why I might be asking the thread title question.
> 
> However, I hope this turns into a more general discussions about the "rights and wrongs" of those choosing to have an affair with someone who is already married, (and I'll admit straight away there are some aspects you could consider as being "right", even if you are the injured party as it were, the one whose partner might have been unfaithful to, because some marriages are ultimately not good for either the man or the woman, so better over, however it might finally happen, or the infidelity aspect).


There is no ‘right’ in infidelity. If your relationship isn’t good you either work it out or break off the relationship. The is no justifiable reason for cheating so I’m not sure what there is to discuss.


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## Robert59 (May 27, 2020)

Very dangerous to mess with someone's married wife because I had a friend that was messing around with his boss's wife and her husband bought a gun and was going kill him. He had the money to hire a hitman to do the job but he wanted to do it himself so he shot this friend with a 22 rifle and he survived the shot.


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## Robert59 (May 27, 2020)

What's crazy I was riding around in his truck for week's before he was shot. I could have been shot also by this angry husband.


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## Judycat (May 27, 2020)

Yeah my uncle was cheating on my aunt for a little while until the day he began piling furniture against the door. The woman's husband called and said he was coming over to kill him.


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## gennie (May 27, 2020)

IOW a fling?  There is no question about the right or wrong of it but as to how many would indulge, I can't give a number but I would imagine there are many who are looking for a fling without serious commitment.  (And I think the reason many are single is because they have commitment issues but that is whole 'nother discussion.)

Men have little to lose because society is and always has been much more accepting of it.  They are also more adventurous and it does present a little danger.  We've all heard the popular death joke: "I want to die in bed killed by a jealous husband."

I hate to show gender bias but if the shoe is on other foot, I think single females are much less likely to have 'flings'.   Females invest far more into a relationship as it can have more life-changing consequences plus society is far more critical.  JMHO

Sorry, Grahamg, I have no idea why you asked.  I hope my answer was not inappropriate.


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

gennie said:


> IOW a fling?  There is no question about the right or wrong of it but as to how many would indulge, I can't give a number but I would imagine there are many who are looking for a fling without serious commitment.  (And I think the reason many are single is because they have commitment issues but that is whole 'nother discussion.)
> Men have little to lose because society is and always has been much more accepting of it.  They are also more adventurous and it does present a little danger.  We've all heard the popular death joke: "I want to die in bed killed by a jealous husband."
> I hate to show gender bias but if the shoe is on other foot, I think single females are much less likely to have 'flings'.   Females invest far more into a relationship as it can have more life-changing consequences plus society is far more critical.  JMHO
> Sorry, Grahamg, I have no idea why you asked.  I hope my answer was not inappropriate.


I'll keep my reasons for asking out of the discussion for now, if that alright, and I didn't find your post inappropriate at all, I'm glad to say.     
I'm a little taken aback by the strong reactions in this "enlightened age", (read " anything goes, high divorce rates, no fault divorce age").     .


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

Keesha said:


> There is no ‘right’ in infidelity. If your relationship isn’t good you either work it out or break off the relationship. The is no justifiable reason for cheating so I’m not sure what there is to discuss.


Have you ever been asked by partner/former partner why you're not feeling happy for them that they've found happiness with someone?
In any event, whilst I want everyone's input, it is those men who stop themselves, when the chance to stray is there, and those who don't I'm really enquiring about here.     .


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## 911 (May 27, 2020)

In my opinion, this is a discussion for another forum. Do you realize that there may be (likely are) some people on this forum who have been severely hurt and maybe even damaged due to an affair and you are again rehashing an event that caused them irreparable pain? 

Do you realize that this is an issue that has caused hundreds of thousands of lives? 

What are you, a sadist?


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

911 said:


> In my opinion, this is a discussion for another forum. Do you realize that there may be (likely are) some people on this forum who have been severely hurt and maybe even damaged due to an affair and you are again rehashing an event that caused them irreparable pain?
> Do you realize that this is an issue that has caused hundreds of thousands of lives?
> What are you, a sadist?


I don't believe I am, but do you think those breaking up another's marriage are sadists, or perhaps should be accepted when divorce means next to nothing? Hopefully on a forum like this one it's okay?


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## Keesha (May 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Have you ever been asked by partner/former partner why you're not feeling happy for them that they've found happiness with someone?
> In any event, whilst I want everyone's input, it is those men who stop themselves, when the chance to stray is there, and those who don't I'm really enquiring about here.     .


Yes I have been told by a past partner that they weren’t happy with me BUT they had the decency to break it off with me first before they went about their merry way with someone else and they did it with class and respect. I was heart broken but weeks later I saw him driving her new Trans AM while waiting at a stop sign, I saw him stare at me while hit the car in front of him  ( I was 18 , he was 16 ) and I don’t care if you wanted this primarily for men. With a title and subject matter you bring up, SURELY you didn’t expect any women to not post their view points. 

That’s not to say I’m never attracted to other people. I just made a commitment to the man I live with. We are not married by the church but are married by law. ( common law ). Not that it matters any.


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## C'est Moi (May 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I'll keep my reasons for asking out of the discussion for now, if that alright, and I didn't find your post inappropriate at all, I'm glad to say.
> *I'm a little taken aback by the strong reactions in this "enlightened age",* (read " anything goes, high divorce rates, no fault divorce age").    .


You have to consider the relative ages of your audience.   Younger people would probably have a vastly different take on it.


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## C'est Moi (May 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I don't believe I am, but do you think those breaking up another's marriage are sadists, or perhaps should be accepted when divorce means next to nothing? Hopefully on a forum like this one it's okay?


There is no problem with your topic unless Matrix says there is.  If people don't want to participate they can scroll on by.


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## C'est Moi (May 27, 2020)

*"How many single men turn down the chance of relationship with married woman?"*

I have no idea.   But a Google result says this: _"An issue of Marriage and Divorce journal also stated that 70% of all Americans engage in some kind of affair sometime during their marital life. " _


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Yes I have been told by a past partner that they weren’t happy with me BUT they had the decency to break it off with me first before they went about their merry way with someone else and they did it with class and respect. I was heart broken but weeks later I saw him driving her new Trans AM while waiting at a stop sign, I saw him stare at me while hit the car in front of him  ( I was 18 , he was 16 ) and I don’t care if you wanted this primarily for men. With a title and subject matter you bring up, SURELY you didn’t expect any women to not post their view points.
> 
> That’s not to say I’m never attracted to other people. I just made a commitment to the man I live with. We are not married by the church but are married by law. ( common law ). Not that it matters any.


No, I did not mean to say I didn't want female input, and yes I do appreciate it here very much, but I do mean "as a man", it is the thinking of men, maybe in all kinds of differing circumstances, who make the decisions they do, I'm trying to focus on most here.    .


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## Keesha (May 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> No, I did not mean to say I didn't want female input, and yes I do appreciate it here very much, but I do mean "as a man", it is the thinking of men, maybe in all kinds of differing circumstances, who make the decisions they do, I'm trying to focus on most here.    .


Ok!


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## Devi (May 27, 2020)

Note: Google itself does not actually say anything, but lists links to pages that cover the topic searched for. And generally pages that use the same terms searched for.


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## 911 (May 27, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> There is no problem with your topic unless Matrix says there is.  If people don't want to participate they can scroll on by.


Nah. I just put him on ignore.


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## In The Sticks (May 27, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Single men or married, when you're a _real_ woman, have _class_, possess _morals_ and _standards_, and have _respect_ for yourself and your partner, you don't buy into relationships and flings outside of the immediate marriage/relationship you're in.
> 
> So, it doesn't boil-down to -- "_how many single men turn down the chance of a relationship with married women_", so much as it boils-down to -- how many loose-aa$ women reduce themselves to such a low level.


Yeh, it's an equal opportunity condition.

And I don't let single people off the hook.  If someone doesn't believe they have a moral obligation to leave another person's spouse alone, then their morals are too  "flexible."


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## In The Sticks (May 27, 2020)

Don M. said:


> IMO, ANY married individual...either man or woman...who fools around with another, is unworthy of their spouses trust and respect.


And is unworthy of their own trust and respect.

If you can't trust yourself, then what's the point of anything?


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## Aunt Marg (May 27, 2020)

In The Sticks said:


> Yeh, it's an equal opportunity condition.
> 
> And I don't let single people off the hook.  If someone doesn't believe they have a moral obligation to leave another person's spouse alone, then their morals are too  "flexible."


"Flexible" being an exemplary choice in words over and above what I would have chosen.


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## In The Sticks (May 27, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> *"How many single men turn down the chance of relationship with married woman?"*
> 
> I have no idea.   But Google says this: _"An issue of Marriage and Divorce journal also stated that 70% of all Americans engage in some kind of affair sometime during their marital life. " _


"some kind of affair"

I'm searching for the meaning behind that.


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

Two friends of mine left their wives for other women. Both were my boss either before or after this took place, and in one case I knew the first wife, (having offered her employment where I was working, at the request of my friend), and knew the second wife a little, and they are still together twenty odd years on with a second family getting grown up now. The other guy I only knew his second wife, and you could say "she broke up the marriage", but I do believe what the man said, that though he had two lovely daughters with his first wife, he was simply bored with the marriage, whilst the next lady was a definite challenge!.

The first man I mentioned I've had a lot to do with and can testify that  his first wife, although lovely too, she was definitely on the boring side, whilst his second wife is a challenge from the little I know of her, but they seem happy and fulfilled too. Neither man can I condemn, much as I'm against he relaxation of rules about divorce, because I do believe staying with their first wives wouldn't have ended well, if it had been attempted.
A brother in law of mine who wanted to leave one of my sisters twenty five years ago, and maybe had an affair so could have left to be with another woman, drunk himself to death fifteen years later, (and maybe staying with his marriage played a part in this?).
Sorry, rambling post and all that, but a subject maybe worthy of scrutiny(?).  .


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## Butterfly (May 27, 2020)

How would anyone know how many single men have turned down the opportunity which you describe?   And how's it any of our business?


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## gennie (May 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Have you ever been asked by partner/former partner why you're not feeling happy for them that they've found happiness with someone?
> In any event, whilst I want everyone's input, it is those men who stop themselves, when the chance to* stray* is there, and those who don't I'm really enquiring about here.     .



If the man is single, I call it infringing.  The woman is straying.  

Is it possible someone is looking for an award for not taking what was offered?   You were asking for a friend, weren't you?  : )


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## gennie (May 27, 2020)

As for bringing up a sad or hurtful subject, we all have some subject that brings back painful memories.  (Terminally ill children is one of mine.)

If fidelity is a painful subject, it's easy to move on to something else.  Unless I missed a rule, participation is not required on every or even any thread.


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## MeAgain (May 27, 2020)

I think you should leave the person if they are not satisfing your needs. Men blame cold wome for their infidelity but i don't think most women are cold.Maybe something wrong with relationship on both ebds.


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## Warrigal (May 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I'll keep my reasons for asking out of the discussion for now, if that alright, and I didn't find your post inappropriate at all, I'm glad to say.
> I'm a little taken aback by the strong reactions in this "enlightened age", (read " anything goes, high divorce rates, no fault divorce age").     .


In what way is cheating on your marriage vows a sign of enlightenment?
Anyone who thinks that this is a consequence free action is anything but enlightened. Such a person is living in a dark room with blinkers on. 

Being an unmarried accomplice is not without unpleasant consequences either, as previous posts have illustrated.


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> In what way is cheating on your marriage vows a sign of enlightenment?
> Anyone who thinks that this is a consequence free action is anything but enlightened. Such a person is living in a dark room with blinkers on.
> Being an unmarried accomplice is not without unpleasant consequences either, as previous posts have illustrated.


When I added parentheses to the word "enlightenment" I intended to show it wasn't something I agree with, but that I feel is forced upon us as the only conclusion to draw from the relaxation of divorce laws still further in the UK.    .


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

gennie said:


> If the man is single, I call it infringing.  The woman is straying.
> Is it possible someone is looking for an award for not taking what was offered?   You were asking for a friend, weren't you?  : )


No one is looking for any award, or I'm not, or can't be assumed to be because no one knows whether I would or would not turn down the chance of a relationship with a married woman or have done. Not asking for a friend either, as my friends who ive mentioned and who admitted infidelity, don't need anyone to tell them what they should have done.


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

MeAgain said:


> I think you should leave the person if they are not satisfing your needs. Men blame cold wome for their infidelity but i don't think most women are cold.Maybe something wrong with relationship on both ebds.


As I've said earlier I do feel my brother in law who drank himself to death might be here today if he'd left my sister for another woman twenty five years ago. My sister bears this much responsibility for him wanting to leave, and it is this, she said a few years after they married and had children, quote:"If I'd been to college I'd never have married him", as in she regretted the marriage and he put her off going to college. That statement ignores whether he loved her, and vice versa doesnt it.


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## Ladybj (May 27, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> *"How many single men turn down the chance of relationship with married woman?"*
> 
> I have no idea.   But a Google result says this: _"An issue of Marriage and Divorce journal also stated that 70% of all Americans engage in some kind of affair sometime during their marital life. " _


SOOOOOOO TRUE!!!!!


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## Ruthanne (May 27, 2020)

If the woman says she is being mistreated and therefore wants to cheat you have to ask yourself if she is being honest.  I don't believe she is being a honest person if she thinks cheating is right.  Best for her to get out of the relationship and divorce before she begins to date again==for everyone's sake.


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## Ladybj (May 27, 2020)

I am going outside of the box on this one.  I had a friend that was being abused by her husband and she was not in a position to leave ) she had small kids, now grown) ..she ended up finding a male friend to talk to, among other things.  However, I am not saying what she did was right, but she was doing what she felt was right for her to keep her sanity.  No judgement from me.  Long story short, he ended up leaving her, married shortly after and him and his wife are living in their {my friend and his) retirement home.  We can judge but what would we do in that situation?  Our first thought is LEAVE...Its not always that easy.   There are not a lot of men turn down a relationship with a married woman and vice versa.  It may not go far..depending on how strong the marriage is..  JMO.


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> How would anyone know how many single men have turned down the opportunity which you describe?   And how's it any of our business?


The question was intended to be a bit rhetorical though, and yet I'd guess all kinds of social scientists have sought "data" on the subject, but not really my interest here, except that its of incidental interest.


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## Ladybj (May 27, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> If the woman says she is being mistreated and therefore wants to cheat you have to ask yourself if she is being honest.  I don't believe she is being a honest person if she thinks cheating is right.  Best for her to get out of the relationship and divorce before she begins to date again==for everyone's sake.


In some cases...easier said than done (depending on her circumstances) as far as leaving.  She can be an honest person but ended up being with a dis-honest man.


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

Ladybj said:


> I am going outside of the box on this one.  I had a friend that was being abused by her husband and she was not in a position to leave ) she had small kids, now grown) ..she ended up finding a male friend to talk to, among other things.  However, I am not saying what she was did was right, but she was doing what she felt was right for her to keep her sanity.  No judgement from me.  Long story short, he ended up leaving her, married shortly after and him and his wife are living in their {my friend and his) retirement home.  We can judge but what would we do in that situation?  Our first thought is LEAVE...Its not always that easy.   There are not a lot of men turn down a relationship with a married woman and vice versa.  It may not go far..depending on how strong the marriage is..  JMO.


I knew a guy I liked very much when I worked for him in Cambridge, UK, and he and his wife split, divorced, can't remember whether each married someone else, but both lived with a new partner, then low and behold they got back together and remarried each other, (apologies for tautology there!). Oddly enough, I think that's a real love story, crazy as it is/was.     .


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## Ladybj (May 27, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I knew a guy I liked very much when I worked for him in Cambridge, UK, and he and his wife split, divorced, can't remember whether each married someone else, but both lived with a new partner, then low and behold they got back together and remarried each other, (apologies for tautology there!). Oddly enough, I think that's a real love story, crazy as it is/was.     .


I can see that happening but I highly doubt if my friend and her hubby get back together ( but it would not surprise me).  My hubby and I were one week a way from getting divorced but ended up back together.  IMO it all depends on the circumstances. True Love is VERY RARE but it finds its way back home.


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## Gary O' (May 27, 2020)

*How many single men turn down the chance of relationship with married woman?*

Too many

Not sure why anyone cares about how many
One is too many
One can mess up families, friends, coworkers, kids.....many people

Too many available single wimin to make life any tougher than it is....for anybody


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## Ladybj (May 27, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> *How many single men turn down the chance of relationship with married woman?*
> 
> Too many
> 
> ...


And too many unavailable men that make it tough on their wife, kids, etc..


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## Gary O' (May 27, 2020)

Ladybj said:


> And too many unavailable men that make it tough on their wife, kids, etc..


Absolutely


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## MarciKS (May 27, 2020)

I have been on both sides of the fence. Neither place in the yard is any good.


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## Ruthanne (May 27, 2020)

Ladybj said:


> In some cases...easier said than done (depending on her circumstances) as far as leaving.  She can be an honest person but ended up being with a dis-honest man.


I know my post wasn't really clear.  I had a hard time putting into words what I was thinking.  Yes, what you said is true...but regardless she needs to leave (yes, it can be terribly hard but should be done asap) before starting another relationship for her to be honest with herself and the new prospect--cheating in any sense is not being honest with anyone.


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## Ladybj (May 27, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I have been on both sides of the fence. Neither place in the yard is any good.


That grass can turn from green to brown real quick. Weeds start coming up, the grass has not been cut in months...LMBO.  If you have a good relationship, hold on to it..when storms come, ride the storms... storms do bring sunshine if you hang in there.


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## MarciKS (May 27, 2020)

Ladybj said:


> That grass can turn from green to brown real quick. Weeds start coming up, the grass has not been cut in months...LMBO.  If you have a good relationship, hold on to it..when storms come, ride the storms... storms do bring sunshine if you hang in there.


Been married twice. Think I'll pass on having 3rds.


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## Ladybj (May 27, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> I know my post wasn't really clear.  I had a hard time putting into words what I was thinking.  Yes, what you said is true...but regardless she needs to leave (yes, it can be terribly hard but should be done asap) before starting another relationship for her to be honest with herself and the new prospect--cheating in any sense is not being honest with anyone.


Well you know, why does she have to be honest with herself if her husband was the one being dishonest?   You probably meant it way different and I am responding way different.  Great discussion.


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## Ladybj (May 27, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> Been married twice. Think I'll pass on having 3rds.


I have a friend been married 5x..  You think its the man or her?  I think she needs to work on her.


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## Ruthanne (May 27, 2020)

Ladybj said:


> Well you know, why does she have to be honest with herself if her husband was the one being dishonest?   You probably meant it way different and I am responding way different.  Great discussion.


Why should she stoop as low as her hubby does--she will lower her own self esteem if she is not honest IMO.  I've been there in those shoes, too, had a dishonest husband and I did all the wrong things, again IMO, and suffered for it.  I did the wrong things because I was too young and immature in my thinking but now I know better, I feel.  If I would have to do it over I would have got out faster and then found someone else.


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## MarciKS (May 27, 2020)

Ladybj said:


> I have a friend been married 5x..  You think its the man or her?  I think she needs to work on her.


Who does?
I was to blame the first time. He was blame the second time. I've taken Nellie to pasture. The barn is closed. LOL


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## MarciKS (May 27, 2020)

Ok Ladybj I just re-read that. It could be her *BUT* it takes two to tango.


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## grahamg (May 27, 2020)

Ladybj said:


> I have a friend been married 5x..  You think its the man or her?  I think she needs to work on her.


I met a couple at a dinner party once, who had quite a story. He was a dentist who had been married and divorced five times. This time he wasn't married to his partner, but they bought houses next door to one another, as the only way they could cope with their relationship, even though they seemed very happy, (silly old fool you've got to think, but who knows?).  .


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## old medic (May 28, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I'll keep my reasons for asking out of the discussion for now,    .


Now did Grahamg get caught doing something he shouldn't have been doing?????
Or just upset over a missed opportunity....



C'est Moi said:


> You have to consider the relative ages of your audience.   Younger people would probably have a vastly different take on it.


When I was young and single.... anyone interested was fair game....
Learned a few things from some older experienced ladies...


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## grahamg (May 28, 2020)

old medic said:


> Now did Grahamg get caught doing something he shouldn't have been doing?????
> Or just upset over a missed opportunity....
> When I was young and single.... anyone interested was fair game....
> Learned a few things from some older experienced ladies...


No, I'm as chaste as driven snow, (or else not that attractive to women, "yu know!"  ).


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## Warrigal (May 28, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> I know my post wasn't really clear.  I had a hard time putting into words what I was thinking.  Yes, what you said is true...but regardless she needs to leave (yes, it can be terribly hard but should be done asap) before starting another relationship for her to be honest with herself and the new prospect--cheating in any sense is not being honest with anyone.


Ruthanne and I are on the same page. Marriage is many things - a legal contract and a deep personal commitment as well as an enduring relationship. The contract is intended as a lifetime one but no-one should be forced to live in a relationship that has gone sour, hence the need for divorce as a means of releasing the couple from vows they can no longer fulfil and opening the way for new relationships.

I learned long ago that marriage vows must be renewed daily and we do this by expressing commitment and love in words and actions. When we discover that we can no longer do this, the marriage is in deep trouble. Even so, it is not necessarily over. With help it is possible to rekindle love, provided no-one else comes between the couple. Honesty is important at this time. If there is no hope going forward then it is necessary to face the reality of separation. This is not easy but in the long run it is less damaging to all concerned than cheating.


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## old medic (May 28, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Marriage is many things


Mines more like a prison sentence... Life without any chance of parole... But do enjoy the yard time... served 36 years...


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## Ronni (May 28, 2020)

I haven't read many replies, just sort of skimmed here and there.

I have never cheated.  Not on a spouse or boyfriend...I'm just not wired that way.  

I've been cheated on by my ex.   I wouldn't wish that kind of emotional pain and feelings of betrayal on anyone.


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## Warrigal (May 28, 2020)

old medic said:


> Mines more like a prison sentence... Life without any chance of parole... But do enjoy the yard time... served 36 years...


Pffft. Let me know when you have done 57 years.
On second thoughts, I won't still be around in another 21 years so belay that order.


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## grahamg (May 28, 2020)

grahamg said:


> No one is looking for any award, or I'm not, or can't be assumed to be because no one knows whether I would or would not turn down the chance of a relationship with a married woman or have done. Not asking for a friend either, as my friends who I've mentioned and who admitted infidelity, don't need anyone to tell them what they should have done.


I should have mentioned that although these two friends and former bosses were guilty in terms of cheating on their first wives, they didn't break up anyone else's marriage by choosing the women who became their next partners, (so I suppose they don't really fit in with the thread topic, oops!     ).  .


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## grahamg (May 29, 2020)

Here is how things were done in a stricter, more unforgiving world, "according to Shakespeare anyway):
https://www.sparknotes.com/shakespeare/measure/summary/

Shakespeare's _Measure for Measure_ centers around the fate of Claudio, who is arrested by Lord Angelo, the temporary leader of Vienna. Angelo is left in charge by the Duke, who pretends to leave town but instead dresses as a friar to observe the goings-on in his absence. Angelo is strict, moralistic, and unwavering in his decision-making; he decides that there is too much freedom in Vienna and takes it upon himself to rid the city of brothels and unlawful ****** activity. Laws against these behaviors and institutions already exist, and Angelo simply decides to enforce them more strictly. Claudio is arrested for impregnating Juliet, his lover, before they were married. Although they were engaged and their ****** intercourse was consensual, Claudio is sentenced to death in order to serve as an example to the other Viennese citizens.

Isabella, Claudio's sister, is about to enter a nunnery when her brother is arrested. She is unfailingly virtuous, religious, and chaste. When she hears of her brother's arrest, she goes to Angelo to beg him for mercy. He refuses, but suggests that there might be some way to change his mind. When he propositions her, saying that he will let Claudio live if she agrees to have ****** intercourse with him, she is shocked and immediately refuses. Her brother agrees at first but then changes his mind. Isabella is left to contemplate a very important decision.

Isabella is, in a way, let off the hook when the Duke, dressed as a friar, intervenes. He tells her that Angelo's former lover, Mariana, was engaged to be married to him, but he abandoned her when she lost her dowry in a shipwreck. The Duke forms a plan by which Isabella will agree to have sex with the Angelo, but then Mariana will go in her place. The next morning, Angelo will pardon Claudio and be forced to marry Mariana according to the law.

Everything goes according to plan, except that Angelo does not pardon Claudio, fearing revenge. The provost and the Duke send him the head of a dead pirate, claiming that it belonged to Claudio, and Angelo believes that his orders were carried out. Isabella is told that her brother is dead, and that she should submit a complaint to the Duke, who is due to arrive shortly, accusing Angelo of immoral acts.

The Duke returns in his usual clothes, saying that he will hear all grievances immediately. Isabella tells her story, and the Duke pretends not to believe her. Eventually, the Duke reveals his dual identity, and everyone is forced to be honest. Angelo confesses to his misdeeds, Claudio is pardoned, and the Duke asks Isabella to marry him.


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## Sassycakes (Jun 11, 2020)

*My feelings are the same for both Males and Females about  bringing a 3rd party into the picture. Also the 3rd person should understand that at some time the same thing will happen to them.*


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## hellomimi (Jun 11, 2020)

Sassycakes said:


> *My feelings are the same for both Males and Females about  bringing a 3rd party into the picture. Also the 3rd person should understand that at some time the same thing will happen to them.*


This is true always. The person they cheat with, cheats on them, too. Never fails and serves them right.


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## grahamg (Jun 11, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> This is true always. The person they cheat with, cheats on them, too. Never fails and serves them right.


I've been told, and witnessed, those who choose to leave, or cheat on one partner or spouse, repeat the behaviour quite often, (what do they say about "getting your retaliation in first"?).
A friend of mine, who was the first woman I met through internet dating, and she figured out within the short meeting at a bar, we were not suited. However, most unexpectedly she turned into a good friend afterwards, even when she met a great guy " the normal way", through attending events their respective children were involved in. Anyway, this woman would not entertain any man who had cheated on their wife/partner as she believed they were bound to do the same to her, if the going got tough, as she was pretty astute!   .


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## Pecos (Jun 11, 2020)

My first wife, who I divorced in 1970 because she couldn't keep her pants on, has been married six times. Granted, number five died of a heart attack, and number six was a recycled number three before he died.


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## Lizzie00 (Jun 11, 2020)

Pecos said:


> number six was a recycled number three before he died.



LOL LOL LOL

(but yeah, i’ve always scratched my head over those recycles)


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## Keesha (Jun 11, 2020)

Married SIX times? 
What does guy number 4,5 and 6 think in order  to convince themselves it’s a good idea.


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## Pecos (Jun 11, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Married SIX times?
> What does guy number 4,5 and 6 think in order  to convince themselves it’s a good idea.


What they were thinking beats the devil out of me. She wasn't that good looking.
Number 2, who she cheated with when we were married. Left her with a baby girl for a 19 year old within 18 months. He never paid child support or contributed to his daughter's upbringing in anyway.
Number 3 was an alcoholic, just like she was and had trouble holding a job. He quite drinking before he became number six, even though she was still drinking heavy.
Number 4 beat her up several times and wound up in jail.
Number 5 was another alcoholic and I am told that he treated her pretty well before he died.
Number 6 grew up quite a bit before he married her again.


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## fmdog44 (Jun 11, 2020)

I have had several one-nighters with married women and most but not all of them were their idea. Some of they occurred in pressure cooker clubs in Houston and other southern states. I also had two experiences with women that insisted I spend the night with them the night before they are to get married. True story. The first when I was in my senior year in college and the second when I was 31. They were both  unforgettable lovers. I had one offer from a woman and very close friend to have an affair while her fiancé as was a very close buddy so I immediately declined and was sad that she would even suggest it being the close friends that we all were. Being a life long bachelor and womanizer in my younger days I have many great memories of being a bachelor.


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## fmdog44 (Jun 11, 2020)

911 said:


> In my opinion, this is a discussion for another forum. Do you realize that there may be (likely are) some people on this forum who have been severely hurt and maybe even damaged due to an affair and you are again rehashing an event that caused them irreparable pain?
> 
> Do you realize that this is an issue that has caused hundreds of thousands of lives?
> 
> What are you, a sadist?


Call 911


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## fmdog44 (Jun 11, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Married SIX times?
> What does guy number 4,5 and 6 think in order  to convince themselves it’s a good idea.


Classic post!!!!!! Zsa Zsa Gabor was married how many times? "For richer or poorer in sickness and in health until something better comes along so help you God?" " Vhy not darling?"


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## Lizzie00 (Jun 11, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> most but not all of them were their idea. Some of they occurred in pressure cooker clubs in Houston and other southern states. I also had two experiences with women that insisted I spend the night with them the night before they are to get married.



Geez you portray yourself as a real stud muffin.
And still single.
Go figure.


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## Keesha (Jun 11, 2020)

.... no words for that. Meaning 6 or 7 marriages.  I don’t  understand  how anyone can feel special after all of that. Certainly different strokes for different folks.


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## Gardenlover (Jun 11, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I'll keep my reasons for asking out of the discussion for now, if that alright, and I didn't find your post inappropriate at all, I'm glad to say.
> I'm a little taken aback by the strong reactions in this "enlightened age", (read " anything goes, high divorce rates, no fault divorce age").     .


Do you equate "Enlightened" as a blank check, no holds barred, free for all? How we treat others matters, so much vanity. I was going to say it's comical how we (including me) justify our own bad behavior, but its sad rather than funny.


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## grahamg (Jun 11, 2020)

Gardenlover said:


> Do you equate "Enlightened" as a blank check, no holds barred free for all?


No, not those things quite, (I assume you equate stealing someone's wife with a quote, "licence to steal, corrupt or be immoral"). I think I've said often enough on this thread I'm against the further relaxation of divorce laws going through our UK parliament right now, ignoring the deep reservations of backbenchers, whilst at the same time acknowledging divorce is necessary, (" just don't make it too easy", and undermine marriage vows until they become meaningless).  .


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## Patros (Jun 11, 2020)

When I was married I was approached by a few single guys who wanted to have an affair with me. Some of them I would happily have gone with if I had been single. But I was married so I said absolutely not! 
Apparently, my husband had been having affairs throughout our marriage. He eventually owned up to this and I said ok, we’ll work this out if you behave from now on. But then he had another affair, so I said that’s it, out you go. If you want to play around with multiple people, just don’t get married! It’s as simple as that.


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## LindaB (Jun 11, 2020)

Don't you guys ever watch "Forensic Files?" ROFLMAO
My position has been and continues to be: If you want to fool around have enough respect for yourself and your spouse to address the underlying problem. If it is irreparable, divorce before having that "fling."


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## hellomimi (Jun 11, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I've been told, and witnessed, those who choose to leave, or cheat on one partner or spouse, repeat the behaviour quite often, (what do they say about "getting your retaliation in first"?).
> A friend of mine, who was the first woman I met through internet dating, and she figured out within the short meeting at a bar, we were not suited. However, most unexpectedly she turned into a good friend afterwards, even when she met a great guy " the normal way", through attending events their respective children were involved in. Anyway, this woman would not entertain any man who had cheated on their wife/partner as she believed they were bound to do the same to her, if the going got tough, as she was pretty astute!   .


That's a smart woman with healthy boundaries that she enforces.

I'm not one to retaliate by repeating what I detest. I know my worth, his loss, not mine.


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## grahamg (Jun 12, 2020)

LindaB said:


> Don't you guys ever watch "Forensic Files?" ROFLMAO
> My position has been and continues to be: If you want to fool around have enough respect for yourself and your spouse to address the underlying problem. If it is irreparable, divorce before having that "fling."


Do people really behave in that way, "in the real world", (a phrase my ex. used during discussions surrounding my contact with our daughter, in a perfect world I'd have gotten to see her, but as it isn't perfect, she had a "perfect" excuse for the influence she brought to bear on our child). I believe those who "fool around" are made that way, and will always put themselves first in every situation, but those of us who marry them bear responsibility too, for not appreciating this was in their make up, especially when it was obvious to others who tried to warn of the dangers before we married.   .


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## grahamg (Jun 12, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> That's a smart woman with healthy boundaries that she enforces.
> 
> I'm not one to retaliate by repeating what I detest. I know my worth, his loss, not mine.


I think you do lose a little in the circumstances you describe, as you've "loved and lost", obviously, but I accept what you're saying generally.  .


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## kburra (Jun 12, 2020)

Takes two to tango!!


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## old medic (Jun 12, 2020)

Pecos said:


> My first wife, who I divorced in 1970 because she couldn't keep her pants on, has been married six times. Granted, number five died of a heart attack, and number six was a recycled number three before he died.


You need to watch "The six Wives of Henry Lefay"


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## grahamg (Jun 12, 2020)

kburra said:


> Takes two to tango!!


I've heard that said, and I've heard it said some prefer to "Tango" in threes (not me though   ).


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## LindaB (Jun 12, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Do people really behave in that way, "in the real world", (a phrase my ex. used during discussions surrounding my contact with our daughter, in a perfect world I'd have gotten to see her, but as it isn't perfect, she had a "perfect" excuse for the influence she brought to bear on our child). I believe those who "fool around" are made that way, and will always put themselves first in every situation, but those of us who marry them bear responsibility too, for not appreciating this was in their make up, especially when it was obvious to others who tried to warn of the dangers before we married.   .


It would be nice if "people" (in my particular case I mean "men") would show that side of themselves or be honest enough to let you know being a player is in their nature. My previous husband said and did all the right things including having pre-marital counseling in which we both agreed that infidelity would be a deal breaker. Believe me, if I had had any indication I would have walked away.  I was familiar with the signs from my FIRST husband whom I married at the tender age of 18. I wasn't wet behind the ears when I married the second time. I was 29 years old. I'm sure you can guess how this ended.
I agree that in most cases those people are serial cheaters.
I have been married to a wonderful man for 37 years. I guess the third time is a charm.


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## LindaB (Jun 12, 2020)

grahamg said:


> No, not those things quite, (I assume you equate stealing someone's wife with a quote, "licence to steal, corrupt or be immoral"). I think I've said often enough on this thread I'm against the further relaxation of divorce laws going through our UK parliament right now, ignoring the deep reservations of backbenchers, whilst at the same time acknowledging divorce is necessary, (" just don't make it too easy", and undermine marriage vows until they become meaningless).  .


Personally, I think the laws should make it HARDER to get married than to get divorced in the US. I think a lot of people enter into marriage lightly with an attitude of, "Oh, well, I can always get divorced." 
I don't  think couples who fight all the time and are abusive to one another mentally, emotionally or physically should be forced to remain married. In my opinion this causes more harm to the family, especially the children. I lived through that with my parents and it was horrible for us.


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## grahamg (Jun 12, 2020)

LindaB said:


> Personally, I think the laws should make it HARDER to get married than to get divorced in the US. I think a lot of people enter into marriage lightly with an attitude of, "Oh, well, I can always get divorced."
> I don't  think couples who fight all the time and are abusive to one another mentally, emotionally or physically should be forced to remain married. In my opinion this causes more harm to the family, especially the children. I lived through that with my parents and it was horrible for us.


I'm told though "marriage has to be undertaken before you've got any sense, or after its all gone", (or folks wouldn't go for it at any price!).  .


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## fmdog44 (Jun 12, 2020)

Lizzie00 said:


> Geez you portray yourself as a real stud muffin.
> And still single.
> Go figure.


When you are successful at what you do you don't jump off the track.


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