# 47 GOP Senators send letter to Iran



## QuickSilver (Mar 9, 2015)

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/03...open-letter-iran-warning-undo-deal-obama.html



> 47 GOP Senators signed an open letter to Iran’s leaders,warning them that Republicans were prepared to undermine any nuclear agreement reached between Iran and the United States. The letter was the brainchild of freshman Arkansas Republican Senator Tom Cotton. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), and presidential hopefuls Ted Cruz (R-TX), Rand Paul (R-KY) and Marco Rubio (R-FL) also signed the letter. The letter basically argues that Iran should not trust any agreement with the United States because that deal could be undone at any time.



The letter includes a warning to Iranian leaders



> …we will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons program that is not approved by the Congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei. The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen and future Congresses could modify the terms of an agreement at any time.





> We hope this letter enriches your knowledge of our constitutional system and promotes mutual understanding and clarity as nuclear negotiations progress.



This is simply unprecedented. Any doubts the GOP simply wants to discredit this president as well as looking for war.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 9, 2015)

My Gawd!  Unprecedented in  our entire history.  Any question about these republican senators allegiance to the united states is now answered, they have no allegiance to us.  This is not just Un-American but borderline treason.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 9, 2015)

Amazing.


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## Jackie22 (Mar 9, 2015)

*Iran Responds to GOP Letter: "It has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy" [View all]*

Asked about the open letter of 47 US Senators to Iranian leaders, the Iranian Foreign Minister, Dr. Javad Zarif, responded that “*in our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy. *It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history. This indicates that like Netanyahu, who considers peace as an existential threat, some are opposed to any agreement, regardless of its content.” 

Zarif expressed astonishment that some members of US Congress find it appropriate to write to leaders of another country against their own President and administration. He pointed out that *from reading the open letter, it seems that the authors not only do not understand international law, but are not fully cognizant of the nuances of their own Constitution when it comes to presidential powers in the conduct of foreign policy.*


http://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2015/mar/09/part-ii-iran-responds-gop-letter

Even Iran can see through the teaparty/republicans.


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## Josiah (Mar 9, 2015)

And these negotiations with Iran are so difficult and so important and real progress was being made until the Republican's in congress decided to mess around. The GOP just doesn't believe in treaties, they much prefer armed interventions so long as none of their sons or daughters are involved.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 9, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> *Iran Responds to GOP Letter: "It has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy" [View all]*
> 
> Asked about the open letter of 47 US Senators to Iranian leaders, the Iranian Foreign Minister, Dr. Javad Zarif, responded that “*in our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy. *It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history. This indicates that like Netanyahu, who considers peace as an existential threat, some are opposed to any agreement, regardless of its content.”
> 
> ...



We have been made to look like fools to the entire world.  How dare anyone defend this horrendous deed.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 9, 2015)

Bernie weighs in

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/03...ders-accuses-senate-republicans-sabotage.html




> It appears that for most of my Republican colleagues in the Senate, a war in Afghanistan and a war in Iraq were not enough. They now apparently want a war in Iran as well. President Obama is working with the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Russia and China to try to negotiate a peaceful means to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. These negotiations must be allowed to continue and, hopefully, will succeed. It is an outrage that my Republican colleagues are trying to sabotage that effort.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 9, 2015)

I'm still in shock about this.  And the letter came about through one of the newbie senators from Arkansas.


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## WhatInThe (Mar 9, 2015)

Good Cop Bad Cop. The actors have picked their roles according to their existing politics.

Political theatre?


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 9, 2015)

Did Bibi write the rough draft?


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## Warrigal (Mar 9, 2015)

This is the bit that jumped out at me:



> Senators Lamar Alexander (TN), Susan Collins (ME), Bob Corker (TN), Dan Coats (IN), Jeff Flake (AZ), Lisa Murkowski (AK), and Rob Portman (OH) did not sign the letter. The other 47 Republican Senators did.



47 out of 54 senators added their name to the letter. They are not bluffing IMO. This must be wider than the Tea Party.
I don't think that this position can be lightly dismissed. It have very serious implications for foreign policy now and for the future.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 9, 2015)

Here's the list

View attachment 15629


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## AZ Jim (Mar 9, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Good Cop Bad Cop. The actors have picked their roles according to their existing politics.
> 
> Political theatre?



When did supposedly responsible Senators EVER take an action like this?  Are you defending it?


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## WhatInThe (Mar 9, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> When did supposedly responsible Senators EVER take an action like this?  Are you defending it?



Not defending per say but if true that they are both trying to pressure Iran into one desired outcome as a result of a plan or exploited situation it might work. The question is would all of the senate and congress be informed of a negotiation or pressure tactic like this. Or are the negotiators simply using all of this and this is why no legal action to prevent separate lobbying efforts.


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## Butterfly (Mar 9, 2015)

I find this kind of behavior reprehensible and, BTW, scary as hell.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 9, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Not defending per say but if true that they are both trying to pressure Iran into one desired outcome as a result of a plan or exploited situation it might work. The question is would all of the senate and congress be informed of a negotiation or pressure tactic like this. Or are the negotiators simply using all of this and this is why no legal action to prevent separate lobbying efforts.



This is the action autonomously taken by a group of fanatic haters of the President.  Harry Reed said today "as much as I hated the actions of George Bush sending our boys into unnecessary danger, I never once entertained taking action like this with another nations leader!"  This is not just sabotage from one of the highest government bodies, it is a treasonous act.  Every Senator who signed that letter is a traitor.  McCain (one of my states Senators chief among them).  I am happy to report that the other Arizona Senator, Jeff Flake (R) did not sign it.  Three of the GOPs"golden boys" and potential Presidential candidates, Cruz, Rubio and Paul did sign.  If, God forbid one of them were elected President, how do you suppose they would view this under mining action?


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## drifter (Mar 9, 2015)

No, it can't be dismissed lightly. It's Unprecedented. A national embarrassment, but these people, these Senators were elected to represent somebody, a good portion of the population of these United States. So we live with it. These are unusual times.


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## Warrigal (Mar 9, 2015)

My reaction is that if a certain element of the American Congress, supported by the American people, push this far enough and a war breaks out with America and Israel on one side and Iran supported by whatever allies they can muster on the other side, you can count me out. I can't say how the Australian government would react but I would hope that we would not provide military support. Talk about a war we do not have to have.


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## drifter (Mar 9, 2015)

In my opinion the Republican side of the American congress is filled with Hawks, warmongers, if you please, at least too many of them. But we do the best we can with what we've got.


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 10, 2015)

Unbelievable behavior.  The world must wonder about the stability of our government...


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Articles of impeachment should be brought up against every single one of them... For treason.  This is beyond the pale.   The Arkansas author.. Cotton?  has admitted that the only purpose of this letter was to sabatage any hope of a negotiated deal with Iran.. AND since it is clear that they also do not want Iran to have the Bomb... what then is the alternative?   Of course it's war.   What in God's name are they thinking?   Today is probabley the very first time that I can say.. I am ashamed to be an American.   

I do not see Mark Kirk's (one of my Senators) name on the list.. Nor do I see him on the list of those who did not sign... Anyone?  I have to call his office today to find out.  He is up for re-election in 2016


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

This sums it up for me.. Oh. and yes.. Kirk signed the letter.. Guess a call to DC is in order..


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## Debby (Mar 10, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> This is the bit that jumped out at me:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Seems to me that if a Republican wins your next election, the world could well be fighting WW3 shortly after.  I'm assuming that the lobbyists for the military industrial complex are very busy earning their bonus checks.


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## Debby (Mar 10, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> My reaction is that if a certain element of the American Congress, supported by the American people, push this far enough and a war breaks out with America and Israel on one side and *Iran supported by whatever allies they can muster on the other side*, you can count me out. I can't say how the Australian government would react but I would hope that we would not provide military support. Talk about a war we do not have to have.




That support for Iran may well include Russia as those two countries have ties.  Like I said in my previous comment, WW3 may be on the horizon and ain't that a scary thought?


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## rkunsaw (Mar 10, 2015)

I'm proud to be a supporter of Senator Tom Cotton


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Figures


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Debby said:


> That support for Iran may well include Russia as those two countries have ties.  Like I said in my previous comment, WW3 may be on the horizon and ain't that a scary thought?



I am afraid you are correct.  Elect a Republican in 2016 and I have no doubt WWIII will happen.  Yet people still vote for them as you see.  Amazing..  The hatred for our President overrides all common sense. Even if it means we all go up in vapor.


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## Glinda (Mar 10, 2015)

Debby said:


> That support for Iran may well include Russia as those two countries have ties.  Like I said in my previous comment, WW3 may be on the horizon and ain't that a scary thought?



Yes, this not only conjures up thoughts of WW3 but potentially a simultaneous civil war in our own country.  These traitors are certainly "the enemy within".  This is beyond scary.


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## Debby (Mar 10, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I am afraid you are correct.  Elect a Republican in 2016 and I have no doubt WWIII will happen.  Yet people still vote for them as you see.  Amazing..  The hatred for our President overrides all common sense. Even if it means we all go up in vapor.




What a thought, going up in vapour or lingering radiation sickness or starvation............the possibilities really stink don't they?  Let's hope good sense takes over at some point!


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Debby said:


> What a thought, going up in vapour or lingering radiation sickness or starvation............the possibilities really stink don't they?  Let's hope good sense takes over at some point!




Not until all Republicans are voted out of office... but I'm afraid that it will be too late by then... No one left alive to vote


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Glinda said:


> Yes, this not only conjures up thoughts of WW3 but potentially a simultaneous civil war in our own country.  These traitors are certainly "the enemy within".  This is beyond scary.



I'll be dressed in Blue..   I've never even thought about taking up arms before against other Americans...  However "Americans" belongs in quotes in this case.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Just called Senator Kirk's office in DC.. and asked if he indeed signed that letter.. I was told YES... So .. my next question was when did the Senator decide to become a traitor?  Silence..  and I added does he realize he is up for re-election in a blue state?   Apparently not..

I've also contacted Dick Durban's office and requested he submit a DOJ investigation against Tom Cotton for sabotage or perhaps treason. Of course that won't happen, but at least I got a point out there..  I would love to see it though.


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## Jackie22 (Mar 10, 2015)

Glinda said:


> Yes, this not only conjures up thoughts of WW3 but potentially a simultaneous civil war in our own country.  These traitors are certainly "the enemy within".  This is beyond scary.



This is what happens when the crazy teaparty are elected as leaders, how much damage has to be done before America wakes up.  Our country is going backwards and these crazies are the reason......You want to know why I scream so loud about politics....THIS is why.


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## Debby (Mar 10, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Just called Senator Kirk's office in DC.. and asked if he indeed signed that letter.. I was told YES... So .. my next question was when did the Senator decide to become a traitor?  Silence..  and I added does he realize he is up for re-election in a blue state?   Apparently not..
> 
> I've also contacted Dick Durban's office and requested he submit a DOJ investigation against Tom Cotton for sabotage or perhaps treason. Of course that won't happen, but at least I got a point out there..  I would love to see it though.




Good for you!  Politicians rely on the silence and stupidity of the voters.  You've just informed that bozo that you and approximately 10,000 other 'silent' voters hold that opinion.


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## Jackie22 (Mar 10, 2015)




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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Debby said:


> Good for you!  Politicians rely on the silence and stupidity of the voters.  You've just informed that bozo that you and approximately 10,000 other 'silent' voters hold that opinion.




Debby... a thought... I know you are in Canada, but as you have said, everything the US does affects others..   Mitch McConnell's office.  He's the Majority Leader..  202 224-2541.

I would like to urge anyone here with a Senator who signed that letter to give them a call..  Just google contact information for your senator and call the DC office.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 10, 2015)

I have two Senators that are BOTH republicans.  One Jeff Flake did NOT sign the letter but of course John McCain did.  It will do no good to contact his office but I will Call McConnell's office in a few minutes.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> I have two Senators that are BOTH republicans.  One Jeff Flake did NOT sign the letter but of course John McCain did.  It will do no good to contact his office but I will Call McConnell's office in a few minutes.



Why not give McCain a jingle... ask him since when did a "War Hero" decide to become a traitor?  As Debby said, it will show him that 10,000 other people feel the same but did not call.   AND it will make you feel better.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Here's a better number... Senator Tom Cotton Arkansas... 202-224-2353

Just gave him a call to let him know that I have urged my Senator to petition the DOJ to investigate him for Treason.   So.. give him a jingle while you are at it.. He needs to know what Americans think about him.. and not just the little Teabagger bubble he operates in.


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## Glinda (Mar 10, 2015)

Of course neither of my senators signed it as they are both decent, law-abiding Americans.  They are Democrats.  Am I implying that all Republicans are criminals?  Not necessarily.  But if the shoe fits, wear it.  Then take of whiff of what that shoe has been stepping in.


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## Glinda (Mar 10, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> I have two Senators that are BOTH republicans.  One Jeff Flake did NOT sign the letter but of course John McCain did.  It will do no good to contact his office but I will Call McConnell's office in a few minutes.



Jim!  I'm not even an Arizona resident and I'm going to call McCain!  Just do it!!!


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## AZ Jim (Mar 10, 2015)

McConnells  office will not take calls as they are experiencing high call volume.  I did get a member of McCain's staff in Wash.  and they assured me the message would get through to him.  I had to redial many times to get through.  My question was when he was held hostage in Nam, how would he have felt had the then Senate members taken similar action, and on the other hand since he ran for President how would he have felt had he been the target of this treasonous action.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Glinda said:


> Jim!  I'm not even an Arizona resident and I'm going to call McCain!  Just do it!!!



Call Tom Cotton and tell him you have asked your Senators to pursue articles of Impeachment on the grounds of treason..  His office needs to be flooded with calls. 202-224-2353


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## Ameriscot (Mar 10, 2015)

My state is officially TN as that is the last place I voted from while resident in the US, and where my general election votes count.  Amazingly, neither republican senator signed the letter. 

Is there a petition online somewhere for urging the DOJ to prosecute for treason?


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> McConnells  office will not take calls as they are experiencing high call volume.  I did get a member of McCain's staff in Wash.  and they assured me the message would get through to him.  I had to redial many times to get through.  My question was when he was held hostage in Nam, how would he have felt had the then Senate members taken similar action, and on the other hand since he ran for President how would he have felt had he been the target of this treasonous action.




Or how about if Democrats had written a letter to Sadam Husain telling him they would not support what President Bush was doing?  Can you imagine the rage that would have evoked with Republicans?


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## Jackie22 (Mar 10, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> My state is officially TN as that is the last place I voted from while resident in the US, and where my general election votes count.  Amazingly, neither republican senator signed the letter.
> 
> Is there a petition online somewhere for urging the DOJ to prosecute for treason?




*Please sign the Petition to file charges against the 47 Senators*

Democrats have been furious all day, and the strong language isn’t limited to the Daily News. There is a petition on the White House website accusing these Republicans of treason. http://www.mediaite.com/online/tomo...ver-calls-gop-sens-traitors-over-iran-letter/


The Petition is at https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...tempting-undermine-nuclear-agreement/NKQnpJS9


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## Ameriscot (Mar 10, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> *Please sign the Petition to file charges against the 47 Senators*
> 
> Democrats have been furious all day, and the strong language isn’t limited to the Daily News. There is a petition on the White House website accusing these Republicans of treason. http://www.mediaite.com/online/tomo...ver-calls-gop-sens-traitors-over-iran-letter/
> 
> ...



Will do.  I found a Facebook page for Tom Cotton and there are many comments accusing him of treason, etc.  Looks like more are accusing him than those defending him.  I'm sure the comments will disappear soon.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 10, 2015)

Done.  I will share this petition on Facebook.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 10, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Or how about if Democrats had written a letter to Sadam Husain telling him they would not support what President Bush was doing?  Can you imagine the rage that would have evoked with Republicans?



I emailed McConnell.  He only has certain categories on his email form.  I chose Congratulations.  In the body I thanked him for finally clearly showing by his treasonous act his hatred for America.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 10, 2015)

I signed the petition. Thanks...


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## Debby (Mar 10, 2015)

QS, I'm not a telephoner (hate the things unless it's my daughters on the other end) but here's the letter that I just sent off to your embassy here in Ottawa:

Dear Sir:

I am writing in protest of the letter that your country’s Republican Party just sent off to Iran as they attempted to cut your President off at the knees.  


As Iran has ties to Russia and keeping in mind the current hostility by the American administration towards Russia, I am afraid of the possible conflict that that communication with Iran may bring about in the short or long term.    I would hope that the Republican Party would have the good sense to retract their sentiments before this situation becomes irrevocable.  


While I rarely comment on the internal affairs of the United States, when ‘you' step outside your borders it becomes a point of consideration for every other country in the world including your neighbour to the north.   The ramping up of hostilities towards Iran by both the Republicans and Benjamin Netanyah of Israel is a danger to life on this planet and must be prevented for the sake of everyone.   I can only hope that other Canadians will contact your offices and that you in turn will be in touch with the originators of that foolish letter and that they will see their terrible error in this situation.  




Sincerely,


Debrah McCabe
Nova Scotia, Canada


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## Debby (Mar 10, 2015)

'I emailed McConnell. He only has certain categories on hi email form. I chose Congratulations. In the body I thanked him for finally clearly showing by his treasonous act his hatred for America.'




Too funny Jim, start off with a positive (he thinks he's getting an accolade) and then lower the boom!  Couldn't get much better than that!​


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## Ameriscot (Mar 10, 2015)

As they say, when America sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold.


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## Glinda (Mar 10, 2015)

I signed the petition and left a voicemail with McCain's office, also talked to a live person there. She sounded like she was about 12 years old and couldn't care less.  As soon as their offices open here in CA, I'll call my senators and discuss it with their people.


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## Glinda (Mar 10, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> I emailed McConnell.  He only has certain categories on hi email form.  I chose Congratulations.  In the body I thanked him for finally clearly showing by his treasonous act his hatred for America.



Good one!!!


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## AZ Jim (Mar 10, 2015)

Glinda said:


> I signed the petition and left a voicemail with McCain's office, also talked to a live person there. She sounded like she was about 12 years old and couldn't care less.  As soon as their offices open here in CA, I'll call my senators and discuss it with their people.



Did you call the Washington office?


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

> Originally Posted by *Glinda*
> 
> I signed the petition and left a voicemail with McCain's office, also talked to a live person there. She sounded like she was about 12 years old and couldn't care less.  As soon as their offices open here in CA, I'll call my senators and discuss it with their people.



Call the Washington office.  I never bother with the local offices...  Only DC.    In fact.. I still seething so I called Tom Cotton's DC office AGAIN and burned his aides ear for 5 minutes...  This time I suggested Cotton write a retraction letter and an apology letter to the President..  They said they will pass that along  lol!!    He is really getting burned on his FB page..


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## Ameriscot (Mar 10, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Call the Washington office.  I never bother with the local offices...  Only DC.    In fact.. I still seething so I called Tom Cotton's DC office AGAIN and burned his aides ear for 5 minutes...  This time I suggested Cotton write a retraction letter and an apology letter to the President..  They said they will pass that along  lol!!    *He is really getting burned on his FB page..*



Yes he is!    I'm curious how long the negative comments will stay until an aide deletes them?


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## Glinda (Mar 10, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Did you call the Washington office?



I phoned both the Phoenix and Washington office of McCain.  And I have now spoken with people at Senator Boxer's office in San Diego and Senator Feinstein's office in Washington.  They seemed to think there's nothing more we can do but I hope it doesn't end here.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Glinda said:


> I phoned both the Phoenix and Washington office of McCain.  And I have now spoken with people at Senator Boxer's office in San Diego and Senator Feinstein's office in Washington.  They seemed to think there's nothing more we can do but I hope it doesn't end here.




Well.... there really is only one thing we can do.. We can all get active in the 2016 elections.  We need to volunteer.  send money  and we need to support whoever is challenging a Republican with our time and our donations.  Me thinks the Republicans HAVE accomplished something... that being awakening a sleeping giant.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

I finally figured out why my Senator Mark Kirk.. who is normally moderate,  signed the letter and turned himself into a Treasonous Teabagger.   He is being primaried by crazy Joe Walsh..  Remember goofy Joe?  The Teabagger who was a deadbeat dad and owed mega bucks in back Child support?  The same Joe that couldn't seem to control his temper in his last race?  That Joe..   So Mark isn't afraid of a potential Democrat opponent.. although there is some feeling that Tammy Duckworth may challenge him..  He's afraid of Joe Walsh.    AND I would LOVE to see Joe run against Duckworth.  Guess who just may vote in the Republican Primary next year..  lol!!


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/...senator-tom-cotton-meets-defense-contractors/

In an open letter organized by freshman Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., 47 Senate Republicans today warned the leaders of Iran that any nuclear deal reached with President Barack Obama could expire as soon as he leaves office.
Tomorrow, 24 hours later, Cotton will appear at an “Off the Record and strictly Non-Attribution” event with the National Defense Industrial Association, a lobbying and professional group for defense contractors.
The NDIA is composed of executives from major military businesses such as Northrop Grumman, L-3 Communications, ManTech International, Boeing, Oshkosh Defense and Booz Allen Hamilton, among other firms.
Cotton strongly advocates higher defense spending and a more aggressive foreign policy. As _The New Republic’s_ David Ramsey noted, “Pick a topic — Syria, Iran, Russia, ISIS, drones, NSA snooping — and Cotton can be found at the hawkish outer edge of the debate…During his senate campaign, he told a tele-townhall that ISIS and Mexican drug cartels joining forces to attack Arkansas was an ‘urgent problem.'”
On Iran, Cotton has issued specific calls for military intervention. In December he said Congress should consider supplying Israel with B-52s and so-called “bunker-buster” bombs — both items manufactured by NDIA member Boeing — to be used for a possible strike against Iran.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 10, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> https://firstlook.org/theintercept/...senator-tom-cotton-meets-defense-contractors/
> 
> In an open letter organized by freshman Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., 47 Senate Republicans today warned the leaders of Iran that any nuclear deal reached with President Barack Obama could expire as soon as he leaves office.
> Tomorrow, 24 hours later, Cotton will appear at an “Off the Record and strictly Non-Attribution” event with the National Defense Industrial Association, a lobbying and professional group for defense contractors.
> ...



This 35 year old nut is a typical teaparty republican.  I only hope this nut and his colleagues never get to  play with our boys the "games" of war they only had the balls to play in video  games.


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## Warrigal (Mar 10, 2015)

and a bridge too far?


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## Warrigal (Mar 10, 2015)

I've taken a look at one of the Facebook pages of Sen. Cotton and found this comment which refers to the Logan Act



> "In United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp. (1936), however, Justice Sutherland wrote in the majority opinion: "
> 
> [T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it."
> 
> ...



Is this something that the Republican Senators will be asked to explain in Congress or in the Supreme (?) Court? Will they only have to face the court of public opinion, which is a very ephemeral thing, or will there be more serious ramifications? Could the President take action against senators?


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## AZ Jim (Mar 10, 2015)

Anyone notice the mad rush by our resident "Conservatives" to defend these traitors?


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## Warrigal (Mar 10, 2015)

Desperately trying to assess the implications of this act, I've turned up this site which seems balanced. I'd welcome comments.

http://www.vox.com/2015/3/10/8182063/tom-cottons-controversial-letter-to-iran-explained


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## Jackie22 (Mar 10, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Desperately trying to assess the implications of this act, I've turned up this site which seems balanced. I'd welcome comments.
> 
> http://www.vox.com/2015/3/10/8182063/tom-cottons-controversial-letter-to-iran-explained




This last paragraph pretty well says it all.....


And the tone of Zarif's official response, an act of diplomatic trolling, is, depending on your point of view, either hugely insulting or hilarious (or maybe both). He wrote, for example, "it seems that the authors not only do not understand international law, but are not fully cognizant of the nuances of their own Constitution when it comes to presidential powers in the conduct of foreign policy."


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## Jackie22 (Mar 10, 2015)

This petition already has nearly 100,000 signatures...

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...tempting-undermine-nuclear-agreement/NKQnpJS9


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 10, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> This petition already has nearly 100,000 signatures...
> 
> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...tempting-undermine-nuclear-agreement/NKQnpJS9




That was fast, I think it was less than 7,000 this morning when I signed! :applause2:


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

Guess who NOW wants to sign the letter to Iran... Bobby Jindal and Rick Perry!  They aren't even Senators..  Ya think they're looking to have that on their list of creds for their attemped Presidential runs?


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## QuickSilver (Mar 10, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Anyone notice the mad rush by our resident "Conservatives" to defend these traitors?




Hear them crickets?


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## AZ Jim (Mar 10, 2015)

chirp! chirp!


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## Glinda (Mar 10, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Anyone notice the mad rush by our resident "Conservatives" to defend these traitors?



Is that crickets I hear???


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## AZ Jim (Mar 10, 2015)

Glinda said:


> Is that crickets I hear???



Glinda, that is indeed, crickets.  I am pleased no one is defending this despicable act of treason, it gives me hope.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 10, 2015)

> _Senators Lamar Alexander (TN), Susan Collins (ME), Bob Corker (TN), Dan Coats (IN), Jeff Flake (AZ), Lisa Murkowski (AK), and Rob Portman (OH) did not sign the letter. The other 47 Republican Senators did._



I have to give credit to Senators Lamar Alexander, Susan Collins, Bob Corker, Dan Coats, Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski and Rob Portman for having the backbone not to go along with this scheme.  Kudos to them for exercising common sense and responsibility.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 10, 2015)

I also contacted Flakes office and told him as a Democrat but also a constituent I am proud of his position in not lending his signature to that treasonous piece of trash.


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## Warrigal (Mar 11, 2015)

Still reading. This is an extract from The Guardian: 



> The accusations that the letter-signers committed “treason”, as the New York Daily News put it, or that the letter is a criminal violation of the constitutionally dubious Logan Act are a bit much. The Republican move is inappropriate, clownish and, above all, dangerous, but no one should go to prison for signing on.
> 
> The letter is also evasive and, by extension, so are its signatories. What they and their allies really want is a war. The deal they purport to want – Cotton told MSNBC he wants “complete nuclear disarmament,” though Iran has no nuclear arms – is impossible to achieve. Cotton, for his part, knows this: he has said that his aim is to thwart any agreement whatsoever.
> 
> ...



So, if Obama does secure an agreement, that agreement will be a binding one under international law. This would explain why the Republicans are trying to sabotage the negotiations before they are signed. 

However, will it be a good thing to have this and future presidents hamstrung by hostile congress members every time they seek to negotiate a treaty? Short term gain versus long term pain?


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 11, 2015)

Fortunately we are the foremost economic and military power in the world as our government looks like it is unraveling...


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## QuickSilver (Mar 11, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Fortunately we are the foremost economic and military power in the world as our government looks like it is unraveling...



and whose fault would THAT be?


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## QuickSilver (Mar 11, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> That was fast, I think it was less than 7,000 this morning when I signed! :applause2:



Well it's WAY over the necessary signatures this morning.

You know what irks me the most about Democrats?  All the top Dems don't want to "go there" about treason and prosecution for it.. OR the Logan Act.  It pees me off.. when you KNOW that if it were the Democrats who pulled this stunt on a Republican president, the GOP would have about 47 separate "investigations" and hearings.. and whatever else they could do to punish the perpetrators..   Not the Dems.. it's always the "high road".. and Republicans take advantage of it like petulant children.


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 11, 2015)

The Repubs clearly are causing this dysfunction but Obama does lack the oratorical skills, until the Selma speech, that allowed this opening with the American people in regard to policy...


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## QuickSilver (Mar 11, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> The Repubs clearly are causing this dysfunction but Obama does lack the oratorical skills, until the Selma speech, that allowed this opening with the American people in regard to policy...



Obama LACKS oratorical skills?   Seriously?  Where have you been for the last 8 years?


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 11, 2015)

This has been  mentioned by many observers as his biggest weakness as prez.  Naturally, true believers think that every word he drops is a pearl...


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## QuickSilver (Mar 11, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> This has been  mentioned by many observers as his biggest weakness as prez.  Naturally, true believers think that every word he drops is a pearl...




Funny I've always heard his critics praise his speeches, but add that that is his ONLY strength... everything else about him sucks.. lol!!


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## Glinda (Mar 11, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> This has been  mentioned by many observers as his biggest weakness as prez.  Naturally, true believers think that every word he drops is a pearl...



The words you're dropping are far from pearls.


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## Debby (Mar 11, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> and whose fault would THAT be?




You responded to Ralph's comment: " Fortunately we are the foremost economic and military power in the world as our government looks like it is unraveling..."



From all the reading that I've done, I would say that the blame for a floundering economy and the continual over-activity (can't think of a better word) of your military can be blamed on both parties.  The kinds of problems that you see today began long ago (the 1991 decision by the Pentagon to destabilize the Middle East is an 'event' to remember and a specific example) and even before 1991 the attitudes behind that decision began and in that time, the two parties have simply changed places periodically.  And each time a party gets it's turn to kick at the can, they have to either deal with changes made by the previous government or they work with those changes or they've made their own changes that have all culminated in the political/foreign scene that you're saddled with today.

The biggest problem that has made all of the difficulties possible is the move away from the gold standard and the ability to print money as desired.  This has been an absolute God-send for the military machine.  At least when your dollar was tied to the price of gold, you couldn't print more money than you had gold.  No government could increase the budget just because they had a new war to start or a new pet project.  America had to live within its means.  The way it stands now, every time there's an upcoming budget crisis, America get's 'a new credit card' to run up so to speak.

The other thing that has made all of this possible is the fact that America is the worlds reserve currency.  This means you can borrow lower than any other country and trade happens in American dollars (so you earn a premium from that use).  Libya was going to move away from the dollar to a gold currency (so Gaddafi had to go), Iraq was going to begin trading oil for Euro's (so Hussein had to go), Russia is moving away from the American dollar (so they have to be crushed).......it's all about protection of the dollar.  Because if you lose your status as the holder of the worlds reserve currency, the interest rates on the trillions owed will go up, there will be no money coming in because other countries have quit using your dollar......and then what will America do?   Broke, in debt and with a military machine that feels it has to be in almost every country in the world.

List of parties in the WH each year http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm

FDR(D) took Americans personal gold away and began the elimination of the gold standard in 1933 - http://useconomy.about.com/od/monetarypolicy/p/gold_history.htm

Nixon (R) completed the severance of the gold standard in 1973 and the promise was made that you could print money to 'achieve a lasting balance'.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/charles...al-monetary-error-the-verdict-40-years-later/

George Bush Sr. (R) was President in 1991 when the Pentagon decided to destabilize the ME  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5q9PYy1NoA


I think it can be safely said that neither party is soley to blame nor is either party innocent.


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## Jackie22 (Mar 11, 2015)

Here are some "pearls" from the nutcase that started this..........


Arkansas Republican Senator Tom Cotton has been in the news for spearheading a coalition of 47 Senators who are trying to kill any deal with Iran by warning its leadership that Obama is only in office for another 21 months. 

But long before Cotton had fame and his seat in the Senate, he was a little-known member of the House of Representatives. On November 23rd, 2013, he held a town hall meeting in his district in Hot Springs, Arkansas at the Clarion Lake Resort. The meeting was organized primarily to discuss the Affordable Care Act, most specifically the mishaps with the websites governing the health insurance exchanges. 

At one point, a constituent submitted a question mentioning that her insurance plan had been cancelled and she refuses to utilize the exchanges that Obama, who she calls a liar, set up. 

Rather than telling her that she has an obligation for her own health to seek insurance, Cotton goaded her on, telling her that he himself wouldn’t use the exchange website because “Russian mobsters” may steal his identity. 


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/...se-russian-mobsters-would-steal-her-identity/


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## Ameriscot (Mar 11, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Obama LACKS oratorical skills?   Seriously?  Where have you been for the last 8 years?




:lofl:  Incredible!  He is one of, if not the BEST speaker I've ever heard!


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## QuickSilver (Mar 11, 2015)

Debby said:


> You responded to Ralph's comment: " Fortunately we are the foremost economic and military power in the world as our government looks like it is unraveling..."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

And I believe I can safely say you are wrong.


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## Debby (Mar 11, 2015)

Which point exactly?


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## QuickSilver (Mar 11, 2015)

Debby... rather than Hijack the thread any further I should add that I wasn't speaking about the economy.. I was referring to the dysfunction in Washington and how nothing at all... no matter  how trivial can seem to get done.. AND how because of this Americans are polarized an hold animosity toward one another.  I truly believe that the hatred of our President is the sole cause of this and this certainly doesn't come from the Democrats. THAT is what I believe Ralphy meant also.


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## Debby (Mar 11, 2015)

Well when you're talking about the relational dysfunction between the two parties, that is an entirely different matter and I have no opinion on that.  That is all about people and when humans are involved, I guess all bets are off so I understand your point.  Thanks for clarifying your perspective.

In Canada, I think we have sort of the same problem (i.e. main parties not wanting to work with each other) but I think at the voter level the loyalty isn't quite as pronounced as you folks because we have four (used to have five) parties.  So if you get PO'd at one party, you can always vote for another even if it is only a protest vote.  Although many people adhere to one of the three main through habit or ?   Personally, in federal elections, I've changed my vote over the years at least three times between two of the main parties and one of the newer parties whose entire platform mirrors my own feelings, but it will be years for them to ever get to where they are a real force to be reckoned with.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 11, 2015)

This has all backfired on the GOP anyway... weakening their position rather than strengthening it. 

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/235301-gop-letter-to-tehran-backfires



> A letter from Senate Republicans to Iran’s leadership has divided the GOP and forced it to play defense, endangering the party’s chances of passing a new round of sanctions that would kill President Obama’s nuclear talks with Tehran.
> The talks have long divided Democrats, and just last month it appeared nearly certain that Republicans would have enough votes in the Senate to override a presidential veto of new sanctions.
> 
> 
> That has quickly changed, and the outrage over the letter from 47 Republicans to Tehran is threatening to scuttle Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s (R-Ky.) hopes of winning Senate approval of two bills that would hem in Obama’s talks with Iran.The White House on Tuesday seized on the letter for a second day, lashing out at the Republicans who sent it and calling it a “reckless” and “misguided” stunt.



Guess the little hot shot Freshman Senator from Arkansas didn't quite think things through..  He hasn't learned the game yet.. but this is certainly a great first lesson.


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## Jackie22 (Mar 11, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> This has all backfired on the GOP anyway... weakening their position rather than strengthening it.
> 
> http://thehill.com/policy/defense/235301-gop-letter-to-tehran-backfires
> 
> ...



You know, he reminds me of Cruz when he was first in office....remember the crazy stunts he pulled?

You'd think that the older senators would have been smart enough to turn this down....but not so.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 11, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> You know, he reminds me of Cruz when he was first in office....remember the crazy stunts he pulled?
> 
> You'd think that the older senators would have been smart enough to turn this down....but not so.



Well I posted above why MY Senator... Mark Kirk... Signed this stupid thing.   He has always been pretty much of a moderate..  However, Joe Walsh had been making noise about a primary challenge against Kirk..  Joes Walsh is a Crazy A$$ Teabagger.   A real nut job, who was only able to hold on to one term in the House before being defeated by Democrat Tammy Duckworth.  This is the guy that was found to owe a hundred thousand in back child support and had that nasty temper against any constituent that said something he didn't like.   ANYWAY...  he is going to try to primary Kirk.. so now Kirk has to go far to the Right to beat him.  It wouldn't have gone over well for Kirk if he didn't sign that letter.. so he has to please the Teaparty voters..  Not that there are that many in Illinois.. but it's a primary and they all crawl out of the woodwork for that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/17/joe-walsh-senate_n_6698092.html

I have learned that if you want to find the rational of why a politician does what he/she does... look no farther than the next election.  24 Republican senate seats are up for grabs next year.. They are ALL afraid of a primary..  The rest that signed probably are not up next year and feel pretty safe.


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## AZ Jim (Mar 11, 2015)

Ralphy1, You know pal it would be very hard to be more wrong than you are on this issue of the Presidents ability to fashion words.  Even the harshest of his adversaries comment on his oratory skills.  You say you've heard many criticize his speaking ability, but I am a news junkie and I have not seen that anywhere,  The opposite, yes, but not that.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 11, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Ralphy1, You know pal it would be very hard to be more wrong than you are on this issue of the Presidents ability to fashion words.  Even the harshest of his adversaries comment on his oratory skills.  You say you've heard many criticize his speaking ability, but I am a news junkie and I have not seen that anywhere,  The opposite, yes, but not that.



I think Ralphy just pulled that out of his hoo-hoo


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## Ameriscot (Mar 11, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I think Ralphy just pulled that out of his hoo-hoo



Definitely!


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## Jackie22 (Mar 12, 2015)

*Tehran Tom Cotton was Bribed almost a Million Bucks to Send the Iran Letter.*

https://bluntandcranky.wordpress.co...most-a-million-bucks-to-send-the-iran-letter/ 

Source info at the link. 
Yep. Tehran Tom got a ton of “contributions” from agents of a foreign power to betray his country. He and the rest of the Teapublican Treason Team all took Israel’s side against America’s, but *Tehran Tom the Traitor Tot got paid nearly a million dollars to do so. *Perhaps the other Teapubbies got such bribes as well, but we have the goods on Tommie: 
_
Kristol’s Emergency Committee for Israel gave Tom Cotton nearly $1 million in his race for the Senate just five months ago, Eli Clifton reported. “Cotton received $960,250 in supportive campaign advertising in the last month". 
Cotton also got $165,000 from Elliott ManagementPaul Singer’s hedge fund. Singer is the billionaire who is trying to stop Obama’s Iran talks (Clifton’s reporting again)._ 

Notice the pattern, Gentle Reader: money comes in, and a letter goes out. It is bribery, plain and simple. 

Perhaps the other 46 Senators who tried to kneecap the Prexy with their illegal letter weren’t likewise bought by agents of a foreign nation, which is scant mitigation for their crimes. Scant but something.* Tehran Tom was bought and paid for by another government than ours: and their interests are not the same as ours.* 



....does this surprise anyone?​


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## Glinda (Mar 12, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> *Tehran Tom Cotton was Bribed almost a Million Bucks to Send the Iran Letter.*
> 
> https://bluntandcranky.wordpress.co...most-a-million-bucks-to-send-the-iran-letter/
> 
> ...



Surprising? No.  Sad and disgusting beyond words?  Yes.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 12, 2015)

Can articles of impeachment be brought up against a Senator... 

Love the Tehran Tom moniker...   I'm sure it's going to stick.  It will be all over social media by tonight.  AND so well deserved...


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 12, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> This has been  mentioned by many observers as his biggest weakness as prez.



If that's his biggest weakness, then we're in pretty good shape with this President, compared to those who preceded him.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 12, 2015)




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