# The US is beginning to see a resurgence of Covid-19 cases. Small household gatherings are helping drive the surge, CDC chief says



## Becky1951 (Oct 14, 2020)

The US is beginning to see a resurgence of Covid-19 cases. Small household gatherings are helping drive the surge, CDC chief says

(CNN)Small gatherings are becoming a growing source of Covid-19 spread, a leading health expert said, as at least 36 states are now reporting increased cases of the virus and hospitalizations are on the rise nationwide.

"In the public square, we're seeing a higher degree of vigilance and mitigation steps in many jurisdictions," US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield said during a call with the nation's governors on Tuesday. Audio of the call was obtained by CNN.

"But what we're seeing as the increasing threat right now is actually acquisition of infection through small household gatherings," Redfield said. "Particularly with Thanksgiving coming up, we think it's really important to stress the vigilance of these continued mitigation steps in the household setting.

More at

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/14/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html


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## CarolfromTX (Oct 14, 2020)

I'm not giving up seeing my family. Period.


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## Pepper (Oct 14, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> I'm not giving up seeing my family. Period.


Nor would I.  But my family consists of 3 other people and 2 cats.  When this whole thing began in March I went 5.5 weeks without seeing my grandson in person, although we FaceTimed every day.  I told my son my truth, that my life was not worth living without them.  He and grandson came over in a couple of days from then.


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## ClassicRockr (Oct 14, 2020)

Well, not all families get along and that's the way it is for our families. We live in Colorado and our families live States away and that's the way we like it. For the last couple of months, we've been doing Zoom with them and that's enough. 

Wife's family not getting along with us started after her mother died a number of years ago. She was very much the Matriarch and kept the family together.


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## Pepper (Oct 14, 2020)

ClassicRockr said:


> Wife's family not getting along with us started after her mother died a number of years ago. She was very much the Matriarch and kept the family together.


Same here.  When my mother died, it fell apart.  My favorite person on earth, my son, still here.


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## win231 (Oct 14, 2020)

Well, they gotta blame something....


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## Pepper (Oct 14, 2020)

win231 said:


> Well, they gotta blame something....


Why's that?


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## win231 (Oct 14, 2020)

Pepper said:


> Why's that?


This is the "Blame" virus.  Whatever happens that's bad, it has to be our fault.  Much better than doctors admitting they can't do much about it.
"You're not doing what we say."
"You're standing too close to people."
"You're having friends in your home."
"You're not wearing your mask"
"You're not wearing your mask properly."
"You touched too many things."
"You're not washing your hands often enough....or long enough."
"You didn't get your flu shot."
"You didn't buy the air purifiers we advertised."


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## Pepper (Oct 14, 2020)

ok, @win231 I getcha now.


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## garyt1957 (Oct 14, 2020)

This could be a very bleak winter.  For the northern states at least, we were pretty much coming out of winter in March when things got really crazy, so we had Spring to look forward to and could get outside. We're now looking at 4-5 months of pretty much indoor activities and of course less daylight. Not going to be fun. It will be interesting to see how many families decide to not celebrate Christmas as normal.


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## I'mnotdeadyet (Oct 14, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> This could be a very bleak winter.  For the northern states at least, we were pretty much coming out of winter in March when things got really crazy, so we had Spring to look forward to and could get outside. We're now looking at 4-5 months of pretty much indoor activities and of course less daylight. Not going to be fun. It will be interesting to see how many families decide to not celebrate Christmas as normal.


Or just ignore it. We've been ignoring it since day one, we're all fine. Everyone in my family is an essential worker. My daughter and her husband are also essential workers. She is a nurse in a women's prison that has a ward with active COVID cases for months now. No issues. Besides working for the schools as a librarian, my wife watches their kids several nights a week. My SIL is a FedEx asst. manager in a storefront, constant contact with customers. My other daughter works in a lab setting at U of M. I am a contract administrator for major construction projects, upwards of $40M. I see and speak with Contractors and clients every day.

Every one of us has continued to do whatever. Went to the family reunion, many showed up. No issues. We'll be celebrating the holidays as always, including extended family.

Here's a photo from our recent trip to a specific point of interest. See how many people are concerned? 




$(FILE_NAME) by telecast, on Flickr


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## tbeltrans (Oct 14, 2020)

I can understand the difficulty for those who are fully retired and at home all the time, isolated from the rest of the world except through a computer screen.

For me, things are easier since I live in a 72 unit condo building and do see people every day at least passing in the hall.  Also, I work a short term engineering contract every year and do go in to work for that, since I don't have a lab at home.  My wife and I are fortunate to have hobbies that are home based.  For us, going out to have fun has always been option, rather than necessary.

For those who depend on an active social life to keep their lives interesting, I can see how isolating would be very difficult.  My wife and I are among the more fortunate folks because our lifestyle is not radically affected by COVID-19.

As for the "blame virus", I didn't do it.  

Tony


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## Pepper (Oct 14, 2020)

That's a beautiful family @I'mnotdeadyet!


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 15, 2020)




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## StarSong (Oct 15, 2020)

Ignoring this virus works.  Until it doesn't. 

I often picture this virus Dirty Harry style:
“Uh uh. I know what you’re thinking. “Did any of these folks happen to pick up the virus and not know it?” Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is a corona virus for which there is neither a vaccine nor cure, and if you catch it you could die, have long lasting life-changing conditions, or foist those problems on people you love, you’ve gotta ask yourself one question: “Do I feel lucky?” Well, do ya, punk?”

The answer (for me) always comes back, "No I don't feel lucky enough to gamble my life or heath or that of the lives of people around me."


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## Pinky (Oct 15, 2020)

deleted


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## rgp (Oct 15, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> Or just ignore it. We've been ignoring it since day one, we're all fine. Everyone in my family is an essential worker. My daughter and her husband are also essential workers. She is a nurse in a women's prison that has a ward with active COVID cases for months now. No issues. Besides working for the schools as a librarian, my wife watches their kids several nights a week. My SIL is a FedEx asst. manager in a storefront, constant contact with customers. My other daughter works in a lab setting at U of M. I am a contract administrator for major construction projects, upwards of $40M. I see and speak with Contractors and clients every day.
> 
> Every one of us has continued to do whatever. Went to the family reunion, many showed up. No issues. We'll be celebrating the holidays as always, including extended family.
> 
> ...




OK, a bit OT but I have to ask....

Is that .... 
*Tahquamenon Falls State Park ?*


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## I'mnotdeadyet (Oct 15, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Ignoring this virus works.  Until it doesn't.
> 
> I often picture this virus Dirty Harry style:
> “Uh uh. I know what you’re thinking. “Did any of these folks happen to pick up the virus and not know it?” Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is a corona virus for which there is neither a vaccine nor cure, and if you catch it you could die, have long lasting life-changing conditions, or foist those problems on people you love, you’ve gotta ask yourself one question: “Do I feel lucky?” Well, do ya, punk?”
> ...


All true, but consider: 

We ignore pneumonia, and we have a vaccine, and we still have over 50,000 deaths every year in the US alone. From the CDC.

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. Also from the CDC.

Using logic only, no emotion, why do we ignore these and drive COVID into everyone's head? Why aren't we banning cigarettes? What is an acceptable number for deaths per year? It must be something between the pneumonia rate and the COVID rate, because you never ever hear anything about pneumonia on the news. So, it's ok for 50,000 plus people to die every year from that, I guess. Or, maybe it goes as high as the half million who die from cigarettes?

The main difference between these three issues is the amount of media coverage.


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## Liberty (Oct 15, 2020)

Some areas of the country are spiking that haven't before...its like the virus is making the rounds of the USA, over and over again.  They did waste water tests in this area and ascertained the virus load was less and less.
Maybe there will be waves and waves, like throwing a pebble in the middle of a pond, hopefully each wave getting smaller and smaller.

We should be so lucky, huh!


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## Bethea (Oct 15, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Ignoring this virus works.  Until it doesn't.
> 
> I often picture this virus Dirty Harry style:
> “Uh uh. I know what you’re thinking. “Did any of these folks happen to pick up the virus and not know it?” Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is a corona virus for which there is neither a vaccine nor cure, and if you catch it you could die, have long lasting life-changing conditions, or foist those problems on people you love, you’ve gotta ask yourself one question: “Do I feel lucky?” Well, do ya, punk?”
> ...



It's one thing to risk their own life but it's not fair when they drag other people into it. Every time they go somewhere they are becoming a piece of the puzzle. Everyone they encounter whether it be out and about or at home becomes a piece of the puzzle. So I agree with you. It may not affect someone yet but at some point it could and then they could end up on their deathbed like that one man who said he thought he made a mistake and then passed away.


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## Bethea (Oct 15, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> All true, but consider:
> 
> We ignore pneumonia, and we have a vaccine, and we still have over 50,000 deaths every year in the US alone. From the CDC.
> 
> ...



Cigarette smoking can be stopped and death can be avoided. Coronavirus at this point can't. If these vaccines they are touting don't work and we end up with those kind of numbers or more dying every year from this then at some point how lucky do you think you would be? I should say coronavirus death can't be avoided for some. Not all. Sorry about that.


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## StarSong (Oct 15, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> All true, but consider:
> 
> We ignore pneumonia, and we have a vaccine, and we still have over 50,000 deaths every year in the US alone. From the CDC.
> 
> ...



What makes you think these deaths are ignored?  Many of us, myself included, have had pneumonia vaccines, quit smoking decades ago, don't permit smoking in our homes, and don't enter enclosed spaces where people smoke.  

Media coverage is directly responsible for the dramatically reduced number of smokers (over 40% of US adults in 1965 versus under 15% today).  Smoking related deaths (cancer and COPD) are a lagging indicator - it often takes decades for tobacco damage to rear its ugly head. 

Why aren't we banning cigarettes? Lobby money, that's why.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 15, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> All true, but consider:
> 
> We ignore pneumonia, and we have a vaccine, and we still have over 50,000 deaths every year in the US alone. From the CDC.
> 
> ...



Smoking is a choice and not a virus. Pneumonia is either viral or bacterial and has an available treatment and vaccine. 

The media through the years has kept us informed of the dangers of smoking, also information regarding pneumonia. 

Covid-19 has no safe proven vaccine as yet nor confirmed successful treatment. 

Big difference.


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## I'mnotdeadyet (Oct 15, 2020)

StarSong said:


> What makes you think these deaths are ignored?  Many of us, myself included, have had pneumonia vaccines, quit smoking decades ago, don't permit smoking in our homes, and don't enter enclosed spaces where people smoke.
> 
> Media coverage is directly responsible for the dramatically reduced number of smokers (over 40% of US adults in 1965 versus under 15% today).  Smoking related deaths (cancer and COPD) are a lagging indicator - it often takes decades for tobacco damage to rear its ugly head.
> 
> Why aren't we banning cigarettes? Lobby money, that's why.


Ah...so we see now that cigarettes are kept around due to politics...hmmmm….

You're actually making my point for me. We have pneumonia vaccines, but we still lose 50,000 per year. Shouldn't we 'mask up' to protect those that are susceptible? 

Media coverage about smoking is only prevalent when there's a lawsuit. Other than that, zip...zilch...nada.


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## I'mnotdeadyet (Oct 15, 2020)

Bethea said:


> Cigarette smoking can be stopped and death can be avoided. Coronavirus at this point can't. If these vaccines they are touting don't work and we end up with those kind of numbers or more dying every year from this then at some point how lucky do you think you would be? I should say coronavirus death can't be avoided for some. Not all. Sorry about that.


Evidently Pneumonia can't be stopped either, even with a vaccine. In fact, everything you just said about COVID can be applied to pneumonia, yet no one does.


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## I'mnotdeadyet (Oct 15, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> Smoking is a choice and not a virus. Pneumonia is either viral or bacterial and has an available treatment and vaccine.
> 
> The media through the years has kept us informed of the dangers of smoking, also information regarding pneumonia.
> 
> ...


By all means, please impart that wisdom to the families of the 41,000+ that died last year from second hand smoke, even those who did not choose to be around it.


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## StarSong (Oct 15, 2020)

That 41,000 people died from second smoke last year is a tragedy that continues to be addressed as are pneumonia deaths.

Pointing to preventable and non-preventable causes of death to justify risky Covid behavior doesn't pass the smell test.

If you didn't read this article in an earlier thread, I highly recommend you check it out.  I pasted the post below.  




Sunny said:


> For those who are still in denial, who believe in spirit guides, etc., here's another narrative by a person who did not think he was in any particular danger from this virus:
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/10/10/coronavirus-denier-sick-spreader/?arc404=true
> ...


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## garyt1957 (Oct 15, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> Or just ignore it. We've been ignoring it since day one, we're all fine. Everyone in my family is an essential worker. My daughter and her husband are also essential workers. She is a nurse in a women's prison that has a ward with active COVID cases for months now. No issues. Besides working for the schools as a librarian, my wife watches their kids several nights a week. My SIL is a FedEx asst. manager in a storefront, constant contact with customers. My other daughter works in a lab setting at U of M. I am a contract administrator for major construction projects, upwards of $40M. I see and speak with Contractors and clients every day.
> 
> Every one of us has continued to do whatever. Went to the family reunion, many showed up. No issues. We'll be celebrating the holidays as always, including extended family.
> 
> ...



So you're rolling the dice. Good luck. It may catch up to you or it may not. You went to a family reunion and no issues. You rolled the dice and won.We've all heard of the birthday party for the 85 year old man where 24 people ended up with the virus and he died. They rolled the dice and lost. I'm going to roll the dice as little as possible.


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## JimBob1952 (Oct 15, 2020)

We're not seeing a "surge."  The thing never really went away and cases are climbing back up.  

Humans are humans.  We can't cut ourselves off from contact with other people forever.  Not everybody can work from home.  Children will have to go to school eventually.  I'm not sure the Swedish route isn't the best way to go.  

There has been a lot of incompetence in dealing with the crisis.  But other countries (France, Italy, Spain, UK) are suffering just as much. 

No answers here, just observations.


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## DaveA (Oct 15, 2020)

The  most ignorant side of this whole debacle is the fact that, if you give out your political leanings, it almost follows that your health attitude will follow whoever leads your particular party.

And that is about the dumbest way to treat any health problem and we all have some  sort along the way.  

If you get a sizeable splinter in your foot, do you continue to wander about telling folks that old uncle Charley had a splinter, never treated it and lived to a ripe old age .  Worse than that, you berate anyone who, if they have the same problem,  tries to clean it up, use an antiseptic, and put a band-aid on it.  The best part in all of this is the fact that when your "leader" changes his or her view, like a puppy on a leash, you will reverse yourself and trot along in a different direction.  Pathetic!!


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## StarSong (Oct 15, 2020)

JimBob1952 said:


> We're not seeing a "surge."  The thing never really went away and cases are climbing back up.
> 
> Humans are humans.  We can't cut ourselves off from contact with other people forever.  Not everybody can work from home.  Children will have to go to school eventually.  I'm not sure the Swedish route isn't the best way to go.
> 
> ...


Agreed.  However, the simple act of always wearing masks when with people who aren't housemates and not clustering close together can dramatically reduce the odds of spreading this virus. 

I visit with people on my lawn - masked and distanced. It works.


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## JimBob1952 (Oct 15, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Agreed.  However, the simple act of always wearing masks when with people who aren't housemates and not clustering close together can dramatically reduce the odds of spreading this virus.
> 
> I visit with people on my lawn - masked and distanced. It works.


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## asp3 (Oct 15, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> All true, but consider:
> 
> We ignore pneumonia, and we have a vaccine, and we still have over 50,000 deaths every year in the US alone. From the CDC.
> 
> ...



The problem with your argument is that you're using faulty logic.  You are equating Covid, pneumonia and smoking.

Covid spreads very efficiently in groups and large outbreaks can be traced back to "super spreader events."

If pneumonia spread as efficiently as Covid does I'm sure we would have addressed stopping the spread earlier.

Also pneumonia stats do not distinguish between viral, bacterial and chemically induced pneumonia.

Cigarette smoking has been banned in bars and restaurants in some places.  Some multi unit buildings in California ban indoor smoking.  So things are happening just not in places that think imposing smoking bans is too much of an imposition or restriction on people.


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## win231 (Oct 15, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Agreed.  However, the simple act of always wearing masks when with people who aren't housemates and not clustering close together can dramatically reduce the odds of spreading this virus.
> 
> I visit with people on my lawn - masked and distanced. It works.


It works for me - just as well as visiting my friends indoors without masks.  Funny how that works.


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## Bethea (Oct 15, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> So you're rolling the dice. Good luck. It may catch up to you or it may not. You went to a family reunion and no issues. You rolled the dice and won.We've all heard of the birthday party for the 85 year old man where 24 people ended up with the virus and he died. They rolled the dice and lost. I'm going to roll the dice as little as possible.



I haven't even taken the game out of the box.


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## Sunny (Oct 16, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> All true, but consider:
> 
> We ignore pneumonia, and we have a vaccine, and we still have over 50,000 deaths every year in the US alone. From the CDC.
> 
> ...



Why do we "ignore" pneumonia, I'mnotdeadyet?  Who ever said we are ignoring it?  Great example of setting up a straw horse.

For all those who are boasting that they are ignoring obvious health guidelines, either out of personal arrogance or for some other reason, I really recommend reading that article I posted. It was re-posted by Starsong. It's about a guy just like you, who didn't think he would ever get it.  Until he did.

This is a really, really bad disease. Comparing it to all other diseases, past and present, is meaningless. Each disease (and smoking also) has to be considered individually. And pointing out that there are other bad diseases that afflict mankind proves what about the coronavirus?  Nothing. It's like saying, "Coronavirus?  So what?  People get cancer."  No logic at all to that argument.

Your reasoning reminds me of that old satirical comic book, Mad magazine, which some of us may be old enough to remember. Its "spokesman" was Alfred E. Neuman. Here he is:


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## gennie (Oct 17, 2020)

win231 said:


> It works for me - just as well as visiting my friends indoors without masks.  *Funny how that works.*



Until it doesn't.  Funny how THAT works.


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## garyt1957 (Oct 17, 2020)

My sister has been flitting around like nothing's happening, eating in restaurants, even went to bingo and she visits my 96 year old Dad. Just found out she tested positive today. Roll the dice, pay the price.


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## Warrigal (Oct 17, 2020)

News here in Australia is that COVID infections in US are on the rise again and setting records in multiple states. Meanwhile in Victoria, our worst affected state, the second wave is on the way out but it has taken some very tough and unpopular measures to get to this stage. Today it has been announced that in the past 24 hours there has been only one new case and zero deaths. However, there are still active cases in the community, some of which cannot be explained by contact tracing.


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## Bethea (Oct 17, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> My sister has been flitting around like nothing's happening, eating in restaurants, even went to bingo and she visits my 96 year old Dad. Just found out she tested positive today. Roll the dice, pay the price.



Isn't it awful? No one wants to listen. They're just spreading it right along.


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## garyt1957 (Oct 18, 2020)

Bethea said:


> Isn't it awful? No one wants to listen. They're just spreading it right along.


Now I have symptoms. Tested negative at a rapid test place yesterday but their procedures were so bad I don't trust the results. Going for the better test today. My Dad has a cough but nothing else. I'll be really mad if she spread it to us.


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## StarSong (Oct 18, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Now I have symptoms. Tested negative at a rapid test place yesterday but their procedures were so bad I don't trust the results. Going for the better test today. My Dad has a cough but nothing else. I'll be really mad if she spread it to us.


Oh no!  I hope that you and your father are ok, Gary.  Please keep us posted.


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## Bethea (Oct 18, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> Now I have symptoms. Tested negative at a rapid test place yesterday but their procedures were so bad I don't trust the results. Going for the better test today. My Dad has a cough but nothing else. I'll be really mad if she spread it to us.



I don't blame you. I'd be upset, too. I hope you will all be alright.


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## Sunny (Oct 18, 2020)

Even if you and your Dad don't have it, your sister has given you both cause to worry.


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## RiverM55 (Oct 18, 2020)

Each time a person goes into a crowd with no mask they're basically playing Russian Roulette with their lives and the lives of everyone around them. I don't see how anyone can do that with a good conscience.


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## win231 (Oct 18, 2020)

garyt1957 said:


> My sister has been flitting around like nothing's happening, eating in restaurants, even went to bingo and she visits my 96 year old Dad. Just found out she tested positive today. Roll the dice, pay the price.


LOL.  I had to look up "Flitting."  (I initially thought it was a word you made up).


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## win231 (Oct 18, 2020)

RiverM55 said:


> Each time a person goes into a crowd with no mask they're basically playing Russian Roulette with their lives and the lives of everyone around them. I don't see how anyone can do that with a good conscience.


Maybe they figure that if a mask offers protection, the other people who are wearing a mask would be protected from those who aren't.
It reminds me of those flu shot ads:  _"If you don't get a flu shot, you're making others sick."  _ If a flu shot works, no one who got the shot could get the flu from someone who didn't.


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## StarSong (Oct 18, 2020)

win231 said:


> It reminds me of those flu shot ads: _"If you don't get a flu shot, you're making others sick."_


I've never heard or seen this ad.


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## win231 (Oct 18, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I've never heard or seen this ad.


Kaiser Permanente in Woodland Hills had a huge banner hanging above their entrance that said exactly that.  I don't know if they have it this year, since I'm not a Kaiser member.  I only went there for my diabetes support group meetings (which they since cancelled).


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 18, 2020)

ClassicRockr said:


> Well, not all families get along and that's the way it is for our families. We live in Colorado and our families live States away and that's the way we like it. For the last couple of months, we've been doing Zoom with them and that's enough.
> 
> Wife's family not getting along with us started after her mother died a number of years ago. She was very much the Matriarch and kept the family together.


My husband mother did not like me from the get go, .  I had been married and divorced-the horror of it all.  Despite the fact that her daughter was getting married and was pregnant, despite the fact that she was an alcoholic, her husband was an alcoholic, and her sister married for times; my divorce was an issue.

She disinherited him right before she died.  Not that we cared, not that she had a lot, just that his brother and sisters were greedy people.  Sooo, we refused to answer and they had to wait a year to get their money.  And they had to publish the “where are you stuff” in the papers.   We never bothered to respond.  They live in Wisconsin .  The virus is bad in Wisconsin.


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## RiverM55 (Oct 18, 2020)

win231 said:


> Maybe they figure that if a mask offers protection, the other people who are wearing a mask would be protected from those who aren't.
> It reminds me of those flu shot ads:  _"If you don't get a flu shot, you're making others sick."  _ If a flu shot works, no one who got the shot could get the flu from someone who didn't.


Sounds like somethin people say when they don't much care what happens to themselves or those around em.


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## win231 (Oct 18, 2020)

RiverM55 said:


> Sounds like somethin people say when they don't much care what happens to themselves or those around em.


^^^ Sounds like someone who is incapable of thinking logically.


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## Sunny (Oct 18, 2020)

I wonder what would have happened in this country if this disease hadn't been so politicized.  More masks, fewer cases?


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## RiverM55 (Oct 18, 2020)

Sunny said:


> I wonder what would have happened in this country if this disease hadn't been so politicized.  More masks, fewer cases?


I doubt there would've been more masks. Folks seem hell bent on not wearin em.


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## Warrigal (Oct 18, 2020)

Sunny said:


> I wonder what would have happened in this country if this disease hadn't been so politicized.  More masks, fewer cases?


Mask alone aren't enough. The virus finds every weak  link to secure new host bodies. If we think of it as a very small parasite we could better understand the defences that can cut down the chances of being infected.

Think about the problem of head lice. In earlier times this problem was something of a global pandemic especially when human beings began to circle the globe in ships. All sorts of diseases and parasites were carried around and when introduced to a population that had never been affected before they spread like wildfire. Then the people had to change some habits to deal with the problem.

Think about head lice for a moment. Strict hygiene is essential. Hair needs to be kept clean, bed linen needs to be washed and exposed to the sun to kill any lice.  COVID equivalent - hand washing and sanitising of surfaces.

A fine tooth comb was used to check for lice and nits, especially if the scalp is very itchy. - COVID equivalent - getting tested if  experiencing symptoms such as fever or cough.

If one person in the house is found to have lice or nits, assume that others close to them might also have them and check everyone. COVID equivalent - contact tracing and follow up testing.

When out and about, avoid contact with people who may have lice - social distancing - and wear a head covering such as a hat, bonnet, headscarf or wig; all popular years ago when lice was pandemic. Plaiting hair rather than letting it hang loose was also a defence. COVID equivalent - Full PPE if the risk is very high and masks/gloves for lesser risk.

Be careful about getting close to people you don't know and even to some you do. Lice, like COVID, aren't fussy about who they live on. All they need is an opportunity to move from one to the other. COVID equivalent - social isolation, avoiding crowds, restricting numbers at social events.  

Treatment for lice used to be fairly drastic. Kerosene and quassia chips were effective but unpleasant. Shaving the head also worked as long as the household was scrubbed from floor to ceiling to avoid re-infestation when the hair grew back. There was no one action that would take care of the problem. 

COVID equivlent - to control the outbreak requires a range of actions and behaviour changes:- wide ranging testing and contact tracing, restrictions on movement across borders. Limiting movement within borders, limiting crowd sizes for social events, worship, recreation events, working from home where possible and encouraging distance learning are all worth a try until the virus is less prevalent in the community. Keeping your distance from strangers when out and about but when that is not possible, wearing a face mask provides a measure of protection.

The more people observe the above precautions, the faster the virus will diminish. One day, probably after several decades of vaccine treatment, it will no longer be using humans as a host but just as fleas are present in other species besides humans, corona viruses will continue to exist in wild animals and the lessons we learn now will still serve us well when we re faced with a new pandemic.

One thing we ought not do is argue endlessly about little details like whether wearing a mask is effective or not. We need to look objectively at all of our options, listen to good advice and co-operate fully with the experts in epidemiology. We do this not just for our own sakes but for the sake of family, friends, neighbours and the nation.

I hope my analogy is helpful. If we think of the virus as an invisible parasite, which it is, then we might just begin to see how we can defeat it.


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## asp3 (Oct 18, 2020)

Sunny said:


> I wonder what would have happened in this country if this disease hadn't been so politicized.  More masks, fewer cases?





Warrigal said:


> Mask alone aren't enough. The virus finds every weak  link to secure new host bodies. If we think of it as a very small parasite we could better understand the defences that can cut down the chances of being infected.



I agree that masks alone don't get us to no cases of the virus, however Sunny said more masks, fewer cases which has pretty much been proven not more masks, no cases.  In addition with fewer cases you get fewer chances of having the virus spread.

However the holy trinity of things are:

1. Wear a mask when six feet or closer to other people
2. Avoid indoor gatherings
3. Avoid large gatherings

One can also say avoid being around people who are singing, yelling or talking a lot as well, but that kind of happens when you implement 2 and 3 from above.


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## win231 (Oct 18, 2020)

RiverM55 said:


> I doubt there would've been more masks. Folks seem hell bent on not wearin em.


Yes.  Especially the "Experts" who tell us to wear them but don't wear them.


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## Warrigal (Oct 18, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I agree that masks alone don't get us to no cases of the virus, however Sunny said more masks, fewer cases which has pretty much been proven not more masks, no cases.  In addition with fewer cases you get fewer chances of having the virus spread.
> 
> However the holy trinity of things are:
> 
> ...


Exactly. Anything that prevents transmission of the invisible virus from one person to another is worthwhile. Let's not forget that we can infect ourselves via our hands. I find it fairly impossible not to touch my face so hand sanitising is really important for people like me. A mask also serves to stop me licking my fingers. So do rubber gloves.


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## win231 (Oct 18, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Exactly. Anything that prevents transmission of the invisible virus from one person to another is worthwhile. Let's not forget that we can infect ourselves via our hands. I find it fairly impossible not to touch my face so hand sanitising is really important for people like me. A mask also serves to stop me licking my fingers. So do rubber gloves.


But what if you eat KFC & it's Finger Lickin' Good?


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## MFP (Oct 18, 2020)

win231 said:


> But what if you eat KFC & it's Finger Lickin' Good?


You wipe it on your pants?


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## grahamg (Oct 18, 2020)

asp3 said:


> I agree that masks alone don't get us to no cases of the virus, however (Break) However the holy trinity of things are:
> 1. Wear a mask when six feet or closer to other people
> 2. Avoid indoor gatherings
> 3. Avoid large gatherings
> ...


Would you accept the three options you've offered if the pandemic infection were to stick around for say ten years?
A professor of risk management in the UK who advises our government, has offered four options so far as lockdowns go, and suggested the third may achieve the optimal results, or least risk, when factoring in economic damage and its consequences for our collective health. The third option was to use a version of lockdowns to slow the infection rate until the end of this year, then cease using them, (sorry can't all the others precisely, but they ranged from cease lockdowns now, to carry on much longer than he advises). He could have it all wrong of course.


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## Mairett (Oct 18, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> All true, but consider:
> 
> We ignore pneumonia, and we have a vaccine, and we still have over 50,000 deaths every year in the US alone. From the CDC.
> 
> ...


We worry about Covid because if you have thousands of people getting sick at once, the hospitals will be over run. So every hospital has only so many beds or ability to treat only so many people. Can you imagine how horrific it would be to need emergency care and have to be turned away because someone wanted to go have some fun and could care less who dies. Why risk it? If you could possibly save one life would you do it? I wear a mask because it might just save that one person, or maybe hundreds. Everyone has a choice, but I choose to save lives and try not to die alone in a cold hospital because I couldn't wait this out for months.


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## Warrigal (Oct 18, 2020)

win231 said:


> But what if you eat KFC & it's Finger Lickin' Good?


Sanitise your hands first and it is OK. Always washing or sanitising your hands is necessary these days.


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## asp3 (Oct 19, 2020)

grahamg said:


> Would you accept the three options you've offered if the pandemic infection were to stick around for say ten years?
> A professor of risk management in the UK who advises our government, has offered four options so far as lockdowns go, and suggested the third may achieve the optimal results, or least risk, when factoring in economic damage and its consequences for our collective health. The third option was to use a version of lockdowns to slow the infection rate until the end of this year, then cease using them, (sorry can't all the others precisely, but they ranged from cease lockdowns now, to carry on much longer than he advises). He could have it all wrong of course.



If that's what it takes to keep myself and others safe I would consider doing it.  I'm hopeful it won't come to that though.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 19, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> *The US is beginning to see a resurgence of Covid-19 cases. Small household gatherings are helping drive the surge*, CDC chief says
> 
> (CNN)Small gatherings are becoming a growing source of Covid-19 spread, a leading health expert said, as at least 36 states are now reporting increased cases of the virus and hospitalizations are on the rise nationwide.
> 
> ...


Here in Canada, particular in the Province of Manitoba, Covid-19 cases are being supercharged by people in their 20's. 

They're not listening, not practicing, not paying attention to, and not embracing safe measures.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 19, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Here in Canada, particular in the Province of Manitoba, Covid-19 cases are being supercharged by people in their 20's.
> 
> They're not listening, not practicing, not paying attention to, and not embracing safe measures.



Same here. I think our younger generation lacks empathy and sympathy, they are pretty much a ME ME ME society. 
It's all about me and what I  want.


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## Aunt Marg (Oct 19, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> Same here. I think our younger generation lacks empathy and sympathy, they are pretty much a ME ME ME society.
> It's all about me and what I  want.


I couldn't have said it better, Becky.

My sentiment to a T.


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 19, 2020)

Actu





Warrigal said:


> Mask alone aren't enough. The virus finds every weak  link to secure new host bodies. If we think of it as a very small parasite we could better understand the defences that can cut down the chances of being infected.
> 
> Think about the problem of head lice. In earlier times this problem was something of a global pandemic especially when human beings began to circle the globe in ships. All sorts of diseases and parasites were carried around and when introduced to a population that had never been affected before they spread like wildfire. Then the people had to change some habits to deal with the problem.
> 
> ...


Head lice is still a problem in schools, another thing to look forward too.


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## Pepper (Oct 19, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> Same here. I think our younger generation lacks empathy and sympathy, they are pretty much a ME ME ME society.
> It's all about me and what I  want.


That's what was said about our generation, the Boomers.  It's said about every generation.
“Children; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. They no longer rise when elders enter the room, they contradict their parents and tyrannize their teachers. Children are now tyrants.” 
Socrates


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 19, 2020)

Mairett said:


> We worry about Covid because if you have thousands of people getting sick at once, the hospitals will be over run. So every hospital has only so many beds or ability to treat only so many people. Can you imagine how horrific it would be to need emergency care and have to be turned away because someone wanted to go have some fun and could care less who dies. Why risk it? If you could possibly save one life would you do it? I wear a mask because it might just save that one person, or maybe hundreds. Everyone has a choice, but I choose to save lives and try not to die alone in a cold hospital because I couldn't wait this out for months.


This is happening now, of course.  People are being turned away


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## Sunny (Oct 19, 2020)

From The Mikado, by Gilbert & Sullivan:

So please you, Sir, we much regret
If we have failed in etiquette
Towards a man of rank so high--
We shall know better by and by.

But youth, of course, must have its fling,
 So pardon us,
 So pardon us,

And don't, in girlhood's happy spring,
 Be hard on us,
 Be hard on us,
 If we're inclined to dance and sing.
 Tra la la, etc.  (Dancing.)


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## grahamg (Oct 19, 2020)

asp3 said:


> If that's what it takes to keep myself and others safe I would consider doing it.  I'm hopeful it won't come to that though.


If you'd accept the strict measures you outlined for ten years, "if it kept your family and others safe", the obvious question is would you accept twenty years of lockdowns, of one form or another, or are there any limits to how long you'd put up with it?
Then there is another question, would you expect young people to forego relationships they might have forged for such long periods, on the same basis, keeping everyone safe etc., maybe thereby never having the opportunity to meet someone they might love, and have a family with, in that fairly critical ten or twenty years when couples normally do this, (apologies for trying to extract a few doubts about lockdowns from you, but you understand it is for the purposes of argument).   .


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## asp3 (Oct 19, 2020)

grahamg said:


> If you'd accept the strict measures you outlined for ten years, "if it kept your family and others safe", the obvious question is would you accept twenty years of lockdowns, of one form or another, or are there any limits to how long you'd put up with it?
> Then there is another question, would you expect young people to forego relationships they might have forged for such long periods, on the same basis, keeping everyone safe etc., maybe thereby never having the opportunity to meet someone they might love, and have a family with, in that fairly critical ten or twenty years when couples normally do this, (apologies for trying to extract a few doubts about lockdowns from you, but you understand it is for the purposes of argument).   .



No problem, I understand.  I think that when one is out amongst people one doesn't know the guidelines are perfectly reasonable and if it turned out to be for the good of the rest I think I could see to continuing them indefinitely.

However based on what we know I think the scenario of this being ongoing after the end of 2021 is highly unlikely.


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## tbeltrans (Oct 19, 2020)




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## gennie (Oct 20, 2020)

Hiv and herpes both changed social behavior. 

I believe Covid will do the same especially in how we interact with strangers.


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## Sunny (Oct 20, 2020)

There are lots of resurgences going on right now in the U.S.  Just got off a Zoom family meeting, and my granddaughter (and her DH) in a suburb of Chicago told us that there is a sudden upswing of cases in their region.

I also hear there is an upswing right here where I live, in Montgomery County. This disease has no intention of going away, and probably never will. All we can do is put our hopes in a vaccine.


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## grahamg (Oct 20, 2020)

Sunny said:


> There are lots of resurgences going on right now in the U.S.  Just got off a Zoom family meeting, and my granddaughter (and her DH) in a suburb of Chicago told us that there is a sudden upswing of cases in their region. I also hear there is an upswing right here where I live, in Montgomery County. This disease has no intention of going away, and probably never will. All we can do is put our hopes in a vaccine.


I can see I'll have to bore everyone with the views of Professor Phillip Thomas of Bristol University, a professor of risk management, who appears to have written fairly extensively on the subject of pandemic infections and what we're in for according to his science, and the options he says are available.   .


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Oct 21, 2020)

Sunny said:


> There are lots of resurgences going on right now in the U.S.  Just got off a Zoom family meeting, and my granddaughter (and her DH) in a suburb of Chicago told us that there is a sudden upswing of cases in their region.
> 
> I also hear there is an upswing right here where I live, in Montgomery County. This disease has no intention of going away, and probably never will. All we can do is put our hopes in a vaccine.



I expect it will surge even more right after Thanksgiving.


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## StarSong (Oct 21, 2020)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> I expect it will surge even more right after Thanksgiving.


I fear you're correct.


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