# End of the Manly Man?



## SeaBreeze (Sep 24, 2013)

There's more and more men nowadays shaving their legs, waxing their chests and eyebrows, now even wearing make up on a daily basis.  I saw on a morning talk show this guy who used make up every morning just like a woman, because it evened out his skin tone and made him look healthier.  I think more and more men are becoming more feminine...I like a man with chest hair (and a pair). :hair: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-increasing-pressure-beautify-themselves.html


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## rkunsaw (Sep 24, 2013)

Arnold Schwarzenegger Had the perfect term....."Girly Men"   In my younger days they were called queers but they weren't flaunting it so much back then.


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## Diwundrin (Sep 24, 2013)

Even if it still mattered 'Metrosexuals' never register on my radar.  
I'm with SB  'hair and a pair' for me too. :thumbsup:


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## That Guy (Sep 25, 2013)




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## basefare (Sep 25, 2013)

I didn't know all of this. Don't know anyone like that. I guess I didn't realize anyone but national sportscasters went for it.


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## Anne (Sep 25, 2013)

I can understand being clean & looking presentable, but men are supposed to have hairy chests, aren't they??  I know some men just look more feminine, but why try to look that way??


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 25, 2013)

I don't personally know any men like that, who are so involved with their looks, or even have manicures for that matter.  But I do see some out on the street, and many on TV.  I think if a man has real bushy eyebrows, he may trim them in the mirror with a pair of scissors, use nose and ear trimmers...but no waxing of chests, backs, legs, eyebrows, etc.  Maybe if you're a movie star, always on camera or HD TV, you might want to do those things...but I think it's strange for a man to go there.  I remember first seeing 'smooth' men, and they were professional (or wannabe) bodybuilders.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2013)

> 'I can remember my dad's cosmetic shelf  consisted of a bar of soap and a bottle of Old Spice ...'



That's pretty much me.

The only guys I've ever known to do ANY of that stuff were the wiseguys in Little Italy - they used to get manicures. I tend to look like Bobo the Ape-Boy but you'll never catch me plucking, tweezing, flash-lighting (or whatever they call those gizmos) or shaving anything but my face and neck. 

"Girly-boys" - LOL! I can still hear Arnold saying that ... 
​


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## Diwundrin (Sep 25, 2013)

Kind of ironic Arnie saying that really, considering he never seemed to have a single hair growing below ear level himself.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Kind of ironic Arnie saying that really, considering he never seemed to have a single hair growing below ear level himself.



That's true, and he regularly oiled himself up and watched himself pose in mirrors. He also spent a lot of time hanging around sweaty men in posing trunks.

Hmmm ... now you've made me question reality once again ... layful:



Okay - John Wayne. NOBODY can say John Wayne was a girly-boy. 

... even though his first name was Marion ...

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!! :sorrow:


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## Diwundrin (Sep 25, 2013)

.... and he walked like a drag queen.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> .... and he walked like a drag queen.



Dang! Another one bites the dust.

Okay, then ... ummm ... 

Gary Cooper. "Coop" was a man's man. He had numerous affairs while married - Anita Ekberg, Marlene Dietrich, Grace Kelly, Tallulah Bankhead, Patricia Neal ... not that that kind of behavior _makes_ one a man, but it was pretty much expected and anticipated of hetero male leads in those heady Hollywood days. 

You'd never see _Coop_ tweezing his eyebrows.


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## Katybug (Sep 25, 2013)

*I like that straight men take care of themselves & get manicures & pedicures, but you don't hear of many who do because it's expensive and for some may be a bit questionable.  

Even tho I can't really afford it, I use the excuse I can't bend well enough to do a pedicure & don't want an ingrown toenail.  Had one at an early age that cause severe infection, so every few mos I treat myself.  The shop I go to provides them for free for our Carolina Panthers football team...and they take advantage of it.  Big burly guys with their hands & toes outstretched for pampering... I've seen a few of them in there and they have no shame of it and IMO, why should they?  It feels so good and looks even better!

But, please, don't shave that gorgeous chest hair off guys.  The women I know love it!  Nothing about scumbag Arnold has ever remotely appealed to me, waxed or not.*


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## Anne (Sep 25, 2013)

Rock Hudson was the damn goodlookingest hunk ever for a long time......but, as fate would have it.......


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## SifuPhil (Sep 25, 2013)

Katybug said:


> ... The shop I go to provides them for free for our Carolina Panthers football team...and they take advantage of it.  Big burly guys with their hands & toes outstretched for pampering... I've seen a few of them in there and they have no shame of it and IMO, why should they?  It feels so good and looks even better!



Still rather suspect in my opinion. What - they can't bend over to do _their_ toes, either? They can't use a dollar-store nail clipper on their fingernails? I doubt that ... if they're like the other jocks I've known they're just on a power trip, having women cater to them. 

Knute Rockne is turning over in his grave. 



> But, please, don't shave that gorgeous chest hair off guys.  The women I know love it!  Nothing about scumbag Arnold has ever remotely appealed to me, waxed or not.



Wow! Tell us how you _really_ feel about him ... 

As a BTW, the picture in Sea's article wasn't of a _man_ - it was of a _boy_. So either the article title was in error or they put the wrong picture in.


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## Diwundrin (Sep 25, 2013)

Talking movie star examples...  I contend that those few seconds of Chuck Heston in a loin cloth on that raft in Ben Hur was the greatest piece of cinematography to date.   



I have that magic moment recorded for referrence when I've had enough of the buffed and puffed variety, just to remind me what blokes are supposed to look like at their best.

Look- alikes may apply to audition any damned time they like.  (Body doubles that is, wasn't all that taken with the head.)


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## Jillaroo (Sep 26, 2013)

_*OOH Yeah Di i agree *_


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## SifuPhil (Sep 26, 2013)

... yet he's one of the highest-profile representatives for private gun ownership in the world ...

Ah, well ... I guess you can't have everything in one package, eh, ladies?


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## Diwundrin (Sep 26, 2013)

Yeah we know all about that taking his guns "from my cold, dead hand."  (We hear more about you than you hear about us.)
I did mention it wasn't his head that interested me.


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## Jillaroo (Sep 26, 2013)

_I went through so many pics but that was the best i could do Di, would this make up for the loss of below waist shots _


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## Diwundrin (Sep 26, 2013)

No, he's a 'metro'....  you gotta be kidding, he looks like he's posing for this boyfriend.  Geeeeeze.


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## That Guy (Sep 26, 2013)




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## Jillaroo (Sep 26, 2013)

_*This is the fashion now enjoy Di*_


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## Katybug (Sep 26, 2013)

It may be a southern thing or an old lady thing, but I wouldn't walk on the beach with a guy dressed like this if he was over the age of 2.  And I like Daniel Craig.  Speedo or similar just doesn't appeal to me.  Maybe there's something wrong with me, ya think?


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## Jillaroo (Sep 26, 2013)

_I like the old hairy chest slightly muscled guy any day against all these guys today that to look manly they think they have to have muscles bulging all over the place to be attractive to a woman_


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## Diwundrin (Sep 26, 2013)

Can't say those bothers me at all. I think they're a great look.   They're not Speedos as we think of them (budgie smugglers) by any means.  You just haven't spent enough time on Aussie beaches if you think a fella in those is something to be ashamed of being seen with Katy. 



I hate board shorts, biggest passion killers since the neck to knee.  They might be an improvement for blokes over 40 but otherwise?   Nup, they just look daggy to me.


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## Jillaroo (Sep 26, 2013)

_My pet hate are those damn ugly poo catchers where the crutch is down by their knees and their arse is sticking out as the pants are slung low on the hips _


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## terra (Sep 27, 2013)

I don't exactly have a six-pack endowed body, nor startlingly good looks to go with it.   
But... I always have a daily shower & shave and don't go berserk with the after shave lotion/cologne.  
What irks me are those good looking bums that dress up to the nines and then forget to shave.  I'm not too sure how the women feel about it but rubbing up against a mans dirty, three day growth, cannot be all roses.


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## Pappy (Sep 27, 2013)

Who could forget the swashbuckler Tyrone Power. A huge star of the 30s and 40s.


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## Diwundrin (Sep 27, 2013)

Have to admit the stubble is a turn-off, but don't mind a well kept beard at all.  
Clean and tidy  shouldn't be confused with the lengths that  'metros' go to into tarting themselves up.


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## terra (Sep 27, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Have to admit the stubble is a turn-off, but don't mind a well kept beard at all.
> Clean and tidy  shouldn't be confused with the lengths that  'metros' go to into tarting themselves up.




I agree Di.... a  nice beard on the right person such as Sean Connery is bloody beautiful.


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## rkunsaw (Sep 27, 2013)

I haven't shaved in 30 plus years but I do keep my beard trimmed pretty short. The ritual of shaving every day just seems unnatural. I don't want to shave any part of my body. I really don't like the shaved heads either.


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## Jackie22 (Sep 27, 2013)

Anne said:


> Rock Hudson was the damn goodlookingest hunk ever for a long time......but, as fate would have it.......



I remember when I first heard about Rock Hudson...couldn't believe it at first, he was really a 'good lookin hunk'.


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## Jillaroo (Sep 27, 2013)

_I was rocked to the core too as he was my idol, loved him in all his movies_


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## That Guy (Sep 27, 2013)




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## Pam (Sep 27, 2013)

terra said:


> I don't exactly have a six-pack endowed body, nor startlingly good looks to go with it.
> But... I always have a daily shower & shave and don't go berserk with the after shave lotion/cologne.
> What irks me are those good looking bums that dress up to the nines and then forget to shave._*  I'm not too sure how the women feel about it but rubbing up against a mans dirty, three day growth, cannot be all roses.*_



I wouldn't mind at all... chance would be a fine thing.


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## Anne (Sep 27, 2013)

Jillaroo said:


> _My pet hate are those damn ugly poo catchers where the crutch is down by their knees and their arse is sticking out as the pants are slung low on the hips _



Ohhh, I hate that, too!!   Only time it's hilarious is on 'Cops', when they're trying to run away & trip on their pants!!!!  :lofl:


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## Katybug (Sep 27, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Can't say those bothers me at all. I think they're a great look.   They're not Speedos as we think of them (budgie smugglers) by any means.  You just haven't spent enough time on Aussie beaches if you think a fella in those is something to be ashamed of being seen with Katy.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate board shorts, biggest passion killers since the neck to knee.  They might be an improvement for blokes over 40 but otherwise?   Nup, they just look daggy to me.



*Re Daniel Craig, I just think his very muscular body is not complimented by such a skimpy suit, not a fan of overly developed muscles on anyone.  So it's probably that as much as the type swim wear he has on.  I find it very unattractive on anyone tho, but we all have varying tastes.  I like his acting but not his look, tho I'm sure a gazillion women go ga-ga over him.  I'm just not one of them -- whether he's on the beach or in a tuxedo.

Speaking of Aussie beaches, we had a favorite resort (Hedonism) in Negril, Jamaica that we stayed a few times decades ago and they have a beach where all clothing is optional.  So many Europeans (probably Americans as well) all ages, sizes and descriptions chose the totally bare route -- not me or my ex....so I've definitely had the explosure.  (wink)  Just prefer longer swim trunks on a guy and that's just my opinion.*


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## Bee (Sep 27, 2013)

Pam said:


> I wouldn't mind at all... chance would be a fine thing.




Go......gal.....go.:bounce:


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## SifuPhil (Sep 27, 2013)

Katybug said:


> *...**  Just prefer longer swim trunks on a guy and that's just my opinion.*





:lofl:


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## Katybug (Sep 27, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> View attachment 2749
> 
> :lofl:



*Okay, ya got me.....but not that out dated!!!  LOL  However, I like the length of shorts on the guy on the right, just not the spandex look....and not those gawdawful tops.  I can't believe anyone ever found that attractive.  *


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## SifuPhil (Sep 27, 2013)

I'm under the impression that European beaches get more than their fair share of tiny Speedos, if anything at all. The U.S. seems to favor the baggy look. 

I imagine in Australia they just strap a Tasmanian Devil to themselves ...


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## Diwundrin (Sep 27, 2013)

I dare say there might have been the odd one attached at some time but it never became a big fashion fad.  (For which men are no doubt extremely grateful) :rofl:


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## Katybug (Sep 28, 2013)

Phil: I'm under the impression that European beaches get more than their fair share of tiny Speedos, if anything at all. The U.S. seems to favor the baggy look. 

*I've observed Europeans have no shame about their bodies and the very elderly sunbathe topless/nude and then cover themselves up and leave the beach.  It's not a particularly pretty picture, but if it doesn't bother them why should it bother me?    

As for Speedos, you see them all the time on Fire Island, NY.....and not only in the gay communities there.  Like you said, Phil, most Americans (especially southerners)  prefer them a big baggier -- more like walking shorts.  *


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## SifuPhil (Sep 28, 2013)

Katybug said:


> Phil: I'm under the impression that European beaches get more than their fair share of tiny Speedos, if anything at all. The U.S. seems to favor the baggy look.
> 
> *I've observed Europeans have no shame about their bodies and the very elderly sunbathe topless/nude and then cover themselves up and leave the beach.  It's not a particularly pretty picture, but if it doesn't bother them why should it bother me?
> 
> As for Speedos, you see them all the time on Fire Island, NY.....and not only in the gay communities there.  Like you said, Phil, most Americans (especially southerners)  prefer them a big baggier -- more like walking shorts.  *



Probably because 2/3 of Americans are plus-sized ...

I remember the first time I wore a full wet suit when I was scuba diving in Key West. The suit was tight - tighter even than it was supposed to be. I could barely breathe. It was so tight you could tell what religion I was.

So I put it on in my hotel room and walked down to the boat that would take us out to the diving spots. I figured the walk was maybe 300 feet away and that I wouldn't encounter too many people. 

Wrong.

I think the Shriners were in town that day, because every clown in a little car was driving by and blowing their horns at me. I didn't mind the women's glances, but Key West is an infamously gay town and the majority of the lip-smacking noises I heard were from the guys. 

By the time I made it to the boat I think the suit had shrank even more from the hot sun and I was talking in a falsetto voice as well as taking weird, choppy steps. That didn't help in persuading the guys to move on, though. Just the opposite.

By the time we made it out to the open water I was ready to punch the first dolphin I saw.


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## Diwundrin (Sep 28, 2013)

Tch, the travails we suffer to do 'fun' things.


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## SifuPhil (Sep 28, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Tch, the travails we suffer to do 'fun' things.



Fun? FUN?!?!

I'll have you know I was in training to become a *marine biologist*! I was going to become the next Jacques Cousteau!

... instead I became Jock Tootite.


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## That Guy (Sep 28, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I'll have you know I was in training to become a *marine biologist*! I was going to become the next Jacques Cousteau!



Are you serious?  Me, too!  Only Uncle Sham and his big ideas got in the way . . .


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 14, 2013)

rkunsaw said:


> Arnold Schwarzenegger Had the perfect term....."Girly Men" In my younger days they were called queers but they weren't flaunting it so much back then.


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## Katybug (Dec 15, 2013)

Anne said:


> Ohhh, I hate that, too!!   Only time it's hilarious is on 'Cops', when they're trying to run away & trip on their pants!!!!  :lofl:



Do any of you remember the COPS episode, many yrs ago, when the guy was totally out of his mind on god knows what and was completely naked causing huge problems in a downtown store? They couldn't hold on to him and this went on for 10 min or so, 7-8 cops that couldn't get a grip on him, nothing to hold on to.  Later I saw some of the "most unusual highlights" from the show and they said the guy died on the way to the hospital from an overdose.  

But that bent over look w/way too much showing that we see way too often is a hoot!


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## Katybug (Dec 15, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


>



I'm not a vulgar person by nature at all, but if I knew you and were speaking to you in person....anything I said about Arnold would be as bad as could be said.  He makes me sick to look at him, and his infidelities aren't the reason, just didn't help matters.  He makes my skin crawl and that's being nice!  My vent for the day.....


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## RedRibbons (Dec 15, 2013)

Jackie22 said:


> I remember when I first heard about Rock Hudson...couldn't believe it at first, he was really a 'good lookin hunk'.



Me too. OMG, he was so handsome. Once I found out he was really gay though, I could not watch his movies and get into them any more, as he was a romantic leading man! Same thing with Richard Chamberlain - oh, oh, I was so in love with his Dr. Kildare image. It is also said James Dean loved men too.


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## Jillaroo (Dec 15, 2013)

_I thought Rock Hudson was hot, it didn't change my opinion of him once it was revealed that he was gay, he was still a hot and good looking actor_


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## SifuPhil (Dec 15, 2013)

... and I still like Elton John's music ...


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## Katybug (Dec 16, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> ... and I still like Elton John's music ...



Doesn't faze me, I LOVE Elton's music, he's one of my favorites.  

There aren't many stars I dislike, Arnie being one, and I've seen him up close and personal.  I was visiting my friend in Aspen and he walked out of Planet Hollywood (he was part-owner) eating an ice cream cone, as we were walking in.  He held the door for us.  The restaurant was sooo overrated, wasn't what you'd call an upscale restaurant by any means, just trendy, and I wanted to go there.  The food was very mediocre and way overpriced!

HE IS SOOOO SHORT, I couldn't believe it!  Although it was obviously him, I confirmed it with our waitress.  Short or tall, I really don't like him, crass womanizer that he is!   But I would cross the street to avoid Tom Cruise, really, really don't like the man and it has nothing to do with his ****** preference whatever it may be!  Also have to admit, used to LOVE Travolta and he's another one that now totally turns me off.  If he would stop with the B-S and come out of the closet, I would have more respect!


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## Katybug (Dec 16, 2013)

The man who most takes my breath away is Hugh Jackman and *decades ago* when he was sane, I panted over Mel Gibson....and then there is that super, super hot Keith Urban!  Hugh and Keith seem to be 2 of the nicest men ever and is there anything Hugh can't do??!!!   Thanks, Australia!!!!


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## SifuPhil (Dec 16, 2013)

Heck, even _I_ swoon over Sam Elliot! 

But the day HE comes out of the closet is the day I'll go outside at high noon, drop my pants and sing "_It's A Small World After All_".


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## Katybug (Dec 16, 2013)

TWHRider said:


> Katybug, don't leave Sam Elliot out of the mix - ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



For sure, TWH!   OMG, that man has had me fanning myself for decades.  Honestly, I'm getting goose bumps writing this....NOW THAT'S A MAN'S MAN, IMO!!!  Whew!!!  He reeks of sex appeal!

Lots of rumors about Hugh, but I think it's just damned raw jealousy, cuz he's got it all like few men do!  It wouldn't have the slightest effect on how I feel about him if it turns out he's bi or gay.  I love him as a song &  dance man and on talk shows, killer personality, and I wanted to see him on Broadway in THE BOY FROM OZ so badly I could taste it -- couldn't find anyone willing to spend the $$ to go with me.  Wish I'd gone on my own as I've regretted it ever since.  I hate those gawdawful movies he's in dressed as some weird someone w/sideburns.  Don't laugh, I don't attention to things I have no interest in.  My g'kids rave over his movies and they are a HUGE hit with everyone else.  I would LOVE to see him in a musical or chick flick, but no way will he do a romantic comedy.  I have heard there's a good chance of him filming BOY FROM OZ.  I would see it first day out, then buy it!

But, like Phil said, NO WAY IN HELL WOULD SAM ELLIOTT BE GAY and I would bet the farm and all the tea in China on that!


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## Ozarkgal (Dec 16, 2013)

I was stunned when I found out Rock was gay...I really hadn't seen him or heard anything about him since McMilland and Wife, until he had a few segments on Dallas.  I was shocked at how thin he was, and wasn't even sure it was him.  It was then I found out he was gay and had AIDS..

Tom Selleck and Sam Elliott together in the Louis L'Amour westerns..riding horses...yeah!  Can't get much manlier than that!


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## Diwundrin (Dec 16, 2013)

Katybug said:


> The man who most takes my breath away is Hugh Jackman and *decades ago* when he was sane, I panted over Mel Gibson....and then there is that super, super hot Keith Urban!  Hugh and Keith seem to be 2 of the nicest men ever and is there anything Hugh can't do??!!!   Thanks, Australia!!!!



You're welcome Katy..... *but* Keith Urban is a Kiwi, raised here.  Mel Gibson was born in the US, also raised here, and Hugh Jackman was born here but 1st gen Aussie, his parents were Poms.   Then there's Kidman, born in Hawaii, Rusty Crowe, another Kiwi.... we tend to claim anyone who spent more than 24hrs in the air terminal as 'ours'.  



Trivia: Mel Gibson's father, Hutton, was a long term champion on an early TV quiz program in OZ.  

I had a picture of Mel on my locker door but once they get past 35 I trade 'em in.

For some reason, while I like Jackman, and respect his many talents, and he's eye candy,  I just don't fancy him at all.  Can't figure out why he doesn't push the buttons because he personifies what I do usually fancy in men, especially the build.  Maybe he's too 'nice'.  Dunno.


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## Jackie22 (Dec 16, 2013)

I agree about Tom Sellect...another hunk, don't know why his career did not take off like some of the others.


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## Jillaroo (Dec 16, 2013)

_Ooh yes i remember the eye candy on Magnum PI when he walked towards the camera in those shorts _


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## SifuPhil (Dec 16, 2013)

Nice to see that hairy chests don't turn ALL the ladies off ...


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## Warrigal (Dec 16, 2013)

Diwundrin said:
			
		

> I had a picture of Mel on my locker door but once they get past 35 I trade 'em in.



Have you read Germaine Greer's "The Boy" ?
I think you would appreciate it.


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## Diwundrin (Dec 16, 2013)

> Nice to see that hairy chests don't turn ALL the ladies off ...



Not this 'lady'.  I was always suss of smooth shiny chests.  Guess I'm a primitive cave-girl at heart.   





> Have you read Germaine Greer's "The Boy" ?
> I think you would appreciate it.




It would be about the only thing I would appreciate of Greer's then.  

  I heard she indulges in cradle snatching. 
 I always fancied 'em around 30-40ish from when I was about 14 (which made life hard for younger hopefuls back then, and put me at odds with the dating game for obvious reasons.)  Unfortunately I still do fancy 'em around that age,  but...  

siiiiigh.


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## Jillaroo (Dec 16, 2013)

_I like a hairy chest but i don't like a hairy back_


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## Jillaroo (Dec 16, 2013)

_I'll have Tom & you can have Sam _


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## Ozarkgal (Dec 16, 2013)

Hmm...Jilly, could we switch off once in a while?..I just can't make up my mind!

Pfffwww..that picture!..I'll be back in a few minutes.


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## Jillaroo (Dec 16, 2013)

_Hmm hmm all i can think of is Tom when he used to walk up the beach towards the camera in those shorts, been trying to find a pic of that, very sexy_


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## SifuPhil (Dec 16, 2013)

Jillaroo said:


> _Hmm hmm all i can think of is Tom when he used to walk up the beach towards the camera in those shorts, been trying to find a pic of that, very sexy_



You mean like this?


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## SifuPhil (Dec 16, 2013)

Jillaroo said:


> _I like a hairy chest but i don't like a hairy back_


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## Jillaroo (Dec 16, 2013)

_Oh Yuk it would get stuck in my teeth & the feel OMG  bad boy Phil   _


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## Diwundrin (Dec 16, 2013)

TMI Jilly. :lofl:

Any attraction to Sellick never included his head for me.  I always thought he was his own fan club. 
Great body, but like Heston, who had an even better one, shame about the head. 


Have you seen Sellick lately?  Yuk.  Looks like a clapped out porn star.
Elliot's okay but never blipped much on my radar.

Look on the bright side girls, no competition from this quarter.


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## Jillaroo (Dec 16, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> You mean like this?
> 
> View attachment 3893



Yep that's them, that is when he was his best, but alas age has caught up with him and all the other gorgeous actors.
Kevin Costner is my main man, those come to bed eyes of his send shudders down my spine


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## Diwundrin (Dec 16, 2013)

I'll just check, yep, he's definitely on my Smokin' Eyes' list.  

Damned hard to find one that appears on all the lists though.


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## Ozarkgal (Dec 16, 2013)

Jillaroo said:


> _Oh Yuk it would get stuck in my teeth & the feel OMG  bad boy Phil   _



 Uhh..stuck in your teeth, Jilly? Could you 'splain, 'cause I'm getting a mental picture of hairy back hair in your teeth..say it ain't so..please?


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## Ozarkgal (Dec 16, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Damned hard to find one that appears on all the lists though.



Well, I just checked all of Tom's pictures again (very closely), and I can't find a damned thing wrong with him..he's on all of my lists.  To each his own, because Costner does nothing for me in the hunka, hunka burning love department.  Good actor though.


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## Jillaroo (Dec 16, 2013)

_You know how it is  Oz a little nibble here and a little nibble there_


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## MarciKS (Nov 23, 2020)

SeaBreeze said:


> There's more and more men nowadays shaving their legs, waxing their chests and eyebrows, now even wearing make up on a daily basis.  I saw on a morning talk show this guy who used make up every morning just like a woman, because it evened out his skin tone and made him look healthier.  I think more and more men are becoming more feminine...I like a man with chest hair (and a pair). :hair: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-increasing-pressure-beautify-themselves.html


I've seen men that get manicures with a clear polish and it looks funny to me. LOL!


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## MarciKS (Nov 23, 2020)

I find this a bit creepy too...


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## Nathan (Nov 23, 2020)

SeaBreeze said:


> There's more and more men nowadays shaving their legs, waxing their chests and eyebrows, now even wearing make up on a daily basis.  I saw on a morning talk show this guy who used make up every morning just like a woman, because it evened ouwantt his skin tone and made him look healthier.  I think more and more men are becoming more feminine...I like a man with chest hair (and a pair). :hair: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2345233/Is-end-manly-man-How-men-wearing-make-feel-increasing-pressuurre-beautify-themselves.html


I see this development as strictly a product of successful mental manipulation through brilliant product* marketing*.   First women, now men. Advertising subtling shaping our society, our lives to  want what is being sold.

Back in the mid sixties: remember how the Beatlemania swept the U.S., influencing clothing and hair styles?   Nothing's changed, except that with the internet and social media and all the bots and AIs, our innermost impulse tenancies are being exploited by retailers and sellers of all types.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Nov 23, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I find this a bit creepy too...
> View attachment 135044
> View attachment 135045


A "bit"?

I find it totally creepy and unmanly.

There's two kinds of men that I know of, "pretty boys" and "real men".


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## Sassycakes (Nov 23, 2020)

*It may be just me but what I find appealing in a man is what's on he inside not on his outside appearance. Kind,Loving and Loyal are the most important things I look for in a man*


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## Shalimar (Nov 23, 2020)

The one with a beard, oh my yes. Warm in here. 
 Very similar in appearance to my son’s father when we first met.


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## Shalimar (Nov 23, 2020)

*Sassy, I agree. Ultimately, that is what matters to me also. *


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## fmdog44 (Nov 23, 2020)

It makes as much sense as styling hair to look like the person just rolled out of bed and those hair jobs belong to women as well. Neck & face tattoos look ridiculous. At awards shows women are a half step from being topless. Some folks don't give a hoot about how they look when they go shopping as some look like they are in the pajamas. More or less masculine? Five day beards are everywhere. Apparently there are no rules bout appearance now.


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## Shalimar (Nov 23, 2020)

I am reminded of some of the pictures of seventeenth and eighteenth century gentlemen. Shoes with high heels, satin breeches, very tight, white stockings, embroidered jackets, often covered in lace. (Every colour under the rainbow.) Wigs, powdered or not. Etc.  These gentlemen were certainly very manly, many fought duels as a matter of honour. Times change.


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## win231 (Nov 23, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> I am reminded of some of the pictures of seventeenth and eighteenth century gentlemen. Shoes with high heels, satin breeches, very tight, white stockings, embroidered jackets, often covered in lace. (Every colour under the rainbow.) Wigs, powdered or not. Etc.  These gentlemen were certainly very manly, many fought duels as a matter of honour. Times change.


I didn't think this was Johann's real hair.........     






​


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## Rosemarie (Nov 24, 2020)

rkunsaw said:


> Arnold Schwarzenegger Had the perfect term....."Girly Men"   In my younger days they were called queers but they weren't flaunting it so much back then.


We used to call them 'Nancy boys'.


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## Shalimar (Nov 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> I didn't think this was Johann's real hair.........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don’t think so either.


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## Shalimar (Nov 24, 2020)

Gays tended to hide their sexuality, it wasn’t safe to do anything else. You could be killed for it, in many places you still can


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## grahamg (Nov 24, 2020)

"The real men aren't all gone yu knows!".   . (I saw one the other day!)

My father, (who was recognised as fitting the description I believe), used to go on about my grandfathers times, "When men were men!", and physical work was probably much harder still, my grandfather growing a third of an acre of potatoes, all done by hand, then taken a bag of them on his bicycle to the local station and on to the nearest town to sell.


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## Ferocious (Nov 24, 2020)

*Hmmmm..........I may look a bit like the 'Yeti' with all my hair, especially when I'm under the shower, when the hair on my napper, my chest, all around my 'crown jewels' and everywhere else points south with the force of the water.  No 'pretty-boy' soaps for me, just wire wool and a blow-lamp.   *


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## Aunt Bea (Nov 24, 2020)

_"The more things change, the more they are the same."_ - Alphonse Karr 1849


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## rgp (Nov 24, 2020)

SifuPhil said:


> That's true, and he regularly oiled himself up and watched himself pose in mirrors. He also spent a lot of time hanging around sweaty men in posing trunks.
> 
> Hmmm ... now you've made me question reality once again ... layful:
> 
> ...




  I'm not so sure about the "Duke".


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## rgp (Nov 24, 2020)

One thing ya need to remember . Many of the Hollywood set are queer. I mean think back to high school, most of those guys in [what did they call it ?] drama class ? Those dudes were a-tad odd to me. And they were likely the ones that went on to try and catch fame & glory on the stage..............jmo


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## Gary O' (Nov 24, 2020)

End of the Manly Man?​
Just a pic of one of my favorite movies


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## MarciKS (Nov 24, 2020)

Sassycakes said:


> *It may be just me but what I find appealing in a man is what's on he inside not on his outside appearance. Kind,Loving and Loyal are the most important things I look for in a man*


i am not dating someone that looks like a chick.


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## needshave (Nov 24, 2020)

When the pandemic started, I was running really short on razor refills. We did not want to go to Krogers to get new refills with the potential exposure to Covid-19. For 46 years of marriage my wife never wanted me to start a beard, wanted no part of it, but now her solution was" why don't you let it grow until this is over"! 
 I did let it grow into a full beard, neatly shaved around the neck to just a profile. Now the Wife wants no part of me shaving it off, which is much to my surprise. I keep it short to about 1/4" and although slightly salt and pepper, it matches my hair color. 
 My wife likes the beard and most seem to, except my Mother-in-law, she hates it! My 2 year old niece, that my mother in law babysits, calls me "Fuzzy".  I'm thinking the mother in law may have helped with that title, but most lie it.


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 24, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> End of the Manly Man?​
> Just a clip of one of my favorite movies
> 
> View attachment 135086


We know you're still here, we just want to see how long a manly man can last without food and water and exposure to the elements, so hang in there, Gary!


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## Sassycakes (Nov 24, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> i am not dating someone that looks like a chick.


*My husband has had a mustache for over 20yrs now, believe me, he doesn't look like a chick,he looks like a Hunk !LOL *


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## Autumn (Nov 24, 2020)

A lot of people that I know associate the extreme grooming thing with gay men...but I have to say that the most masculine man I've ever met was a former neighbor.  He was a gay man who went to college on an athletic scholarship (football) and went on to have a 20 year career with the Boston police., with several of those years as a SWAT team member.  He was certainly neat and clean, but that was the extent of his interest in grooming.

I have a young neighbor, in her 20s, and her boyfriend spends more money for clothing and hairstyles and manicures and such than she does.  She thinks it's "cute"...I frankly find it a little creepy.  I guess I'm showing my age and my old lady standards...


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 24, 2020)

Autumn said:


> A lot of people that I know associate the extreme grooming thing with gay men...but I have to say that the most masculine man I've ever met was a former neighbor.  He was a gay man who went to college on an athletic scholarship (football) and went on to have a 20 year career with the Boston police., with several of those years as a SWAT team member.  He was certainly neat and clean, but that was the extent of his interest in grooming.
> 
> I have a young neighbor, in her 20s, and her boyfriend spends more money for clothing and hairstyles and manicures and such than she does.  She thinks it's "cute"...I frankly find it a little creepy.  I guess I'm showing my age and my old lady standards...


Show your age and old lady standards, and I'll join you.

A little TLC for any man is a marvelous thing, but the guy you describe (neighbours boyfriend) sounds feminine to me.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 24, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Show your age and old lady standards, and I'll join you.
> 
> A little TLC for any man is a marvelous thing, but the guy you describe (neighbours boyfriend) sounds feminine to me.


He sounds self absorbed to me.  _I am pretty, oh so pretty, I am pretty, and witty, and pretty.  My girlfriend’s jealous, oh so jealous, cause I am pretty, oh so pretty._


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 24, 2020)

Sassycakes said:


> *My husband has had a mustache for over 20yrs now, believe me, he doesn't look like a chick,he looks like a Hunk !LOL *


My husband weights 350 pounds, he does not need a mustache to look like a hunk, he is a HUNK


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 24, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> He sounds self absorbed to me.  _I am pretty, oh so pretty, I am pretty, and witty, and pretty.  My girlfriend’s jealous, oh so jealous, cause I am pretty, oh so pretty._


Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the prettiest of all? ROFLMAO!


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## Mr. Ed (Nov 24, 2020)




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## Ruthanne (Nov 24, 2020)

I'm more attracted to the "manly" man but have had friends that were a bit more feminine looking, too.  I always liked the way David Bowie looked with eye make-up, groomed extremely well...


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## Gaer (Nov 24, 2020)

Oh YES! Men are ABSOLUTELY MORE EFFEMINATE!!!!!  I've watched this more and more over the years.
haha!  This was similar to my first post on the Senior Forum and I was debased for my assertion. 
What happened to the  rugged, wild, untamed spirit of a commanding  REAL MAN? 
 Someone who is bold, unafraid, confident, strong, self-actualized, stands alone; where is he?
Now, They SHAVE their masculine body hair and WEAR MAKE-UP? 
Even shave their faces to please someone who doesn't appreciate them THE WAY THEY ARE?
 I want to cry!  This is so sad!
It IS what's inside that's important.
A real man has ethics, values, individuality, the strength of the qualities of the soul!
It's in their stance, their voice, their demeanor.  
So, why can't a real man be tender, loving and spiritual inside and masculine on the outside?

and why are women ACCEPTING THIS feminine exploit as the norm?  
God, WHERE ARE THE MEN?


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 24, 2020)

Gaer said:


> Oh YES! Men are ABSOLUTELY MORE EFFEMINATE!!!!!  I've watched this more and more over the years.
> haha!  This was similar to my first post on the Senior Forum and I was debased for my assertion.
> What happened to the  rugged, wild, untamed spirit of a commanding  REAL MAN?
> Someone who is bold, unafraid, confident, strong, self-actualized, stands alone; where is he?
> ...


They absolutely can, Gaer, and those types are still out there, but the alternative sure has made serious strides over the past decade or two, haven't they?


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## rgp (Nov 24, 2020)

Katybug said:


> Doesn't faze me, I LOVE Elton's music, he's one of my favorites.
> 
> There aren't many stars I dislike, Arnie being one, and I've seen him up close and personal.  I was visiting my friend in Aspen and he walked out of Planet Hollywood (he was part-owner) eating an ice cream cone, as we were walking in.  He held the door for us.  The restaurant was sooo overrated, wasn't what you'd call an upscale restaurant by any means, just trendy, and I wanted to go there.  The food was very mediocre and way overpriced!
> 
> HE IS SOOOO SHORT, I couldn't believe it!  Although it was obviously him, I confirmed it with our waitress.  Short or tall, I really don't like him, crass womanizer that he is!   But I would cross the street to avoid Tom Cruise, really, really don't like the man and it has nothing to do with his ****** preference whatever it may be!  Also have to admit, used to LOVE Travolta and he's another one that now totally turns me off.  If he would stop with the B-S and come out of the closet, I would have more respect!




 Schwarzenegger is short ?  I thought he was in the 6'1-6'2 range ?

 How tall did he look?


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## Packerjohn (Nov 24, 2020)

I am lucky.  I haven't had cable TV for over 17 so I don't watch girlie guys.  I watch DVDs like Gunsmoke, The Rifleman & Rawhide.  Absolutely, no girlie-men on any of those shows.  The fact is that perverts or queers always get on cable TV for their 15 minutes (or is 5 minutes) of glory.  The normal people, like me & 95% of the population never are on TV.  If you are crazy the media chases you like a bear chasing honey.  Such is the world.  I prefer watching Marshall Dillon, Lucas McCane & Gil Favour (head driver on Rawhide).  None of these guys every shaved their legs or put on perfume.  Maybe they are like me so maybe that is why I watch them.  You, you can watch what turns you on!  LOL


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## Ferocious (Nov 24, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> I'm more attracted to the "manly" man but have had friends that were a bit more feminine looking, too.  I always liked the way David Bowie looked with eye make-up, groomed extremely well...
> 
> View attachment 135103
> 
> ...


Sorry, Ruth, if anyone looking like Bowie stood next to me in the Gents and gave me the 'Glad Eye', I'd be tempted to give him a smack in the teeth.


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## Ferocious (Nov 24, 2020)

Gaer said:


> Oh YES! Men are ABSOLUTELY MORE EFFEMINATE!!!!!  I've watched this more and more over the years.
> haha!  This was similar to my first post on the Senior Forum and I was debased for my assertion.
> What happened to the  rugged, wild, untamed spirit of a commanding  REAL MAN?
> Someone who is bold, unafraid, confident, strong, self-actualized, stands alone; where is he?
> ...


Get yourself over to my cave, girl.


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## Shalimar (Nov 24, 2020)

*Hmm, being gay is normal. Also, some of the most masculine men I have ever met happen to be gay military. I have one client whom I am positive was Special Forces, although we never discuss it. Another client, an Afghan vet,  lost two limbs while rescuing injured soldiers. Both these gentlemen are highly decorated combat vets, and were deployed overseas multiple times. It is an honour and a privilege to be in their company. *


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## Shalimar (Nov 24, 2020)

Ferocious said:


> Sorry, Ruth, if anyone looking like Bowie stood next to me in the Gents and gave me the 'Glad Eye', I'd be tempted to give him a smack in the teeth.


  That is very sad. I yearn for a day when compassion and acceptance of our differences as human beings replace homophobia. Perhaps then, our teens and young people will not embrace suicide because they have feelings for their own gender.


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## Chet (Nov 24, 2020)

We used to have a policeman in this town who got fired for using the police computer for doing work regarding his private martial arts studio, and for soliciting sex from other men. How do you categorize this person?


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## jerry old (Nov 24, 2020)

Procreation folks, that's what it's all about.  

Rock Hudson was a funny-boy, when I found out Randolph Scott and he were more than friends-Ug!
Funny-boys running around posing as rugged cowboys is too far for my imagination  to stretch.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 24, 2020)

Packerjohn said:


> I am lucky.  I haven't had cable TV for over 17 so I don't watch girlie guys.  I watch DVDs like Gunsmoke, The Rifleman & Rawhide.  Absolutely, no girlie-men on any of those shows.  The fact is that perverts or queers always get on cable TV for their 15 minutes (or is 5 minutes) of glory.  The normal people, like me & 95% of the population never are on TV.  If you are crazy the media chases you like a bear chasing honey.  Such is the world.  I prefer watching Marshall Dillon, Lucas McCane & Gil Favour (head driver on Rawhide).  None of these guys every shaved their legs or put on perfume.  Maybe they are like me so maybe that is why I watch them.  You, you can watch what turns you on!  LOL


WOW just WOW, just when I think I have read everything, something else pops up that I feel compelled to reply to.  As if the way a person dresses, the way an actor dresses in an old time cowboy, indicates their private ****** preferences.  

That guy is in a cowboy movie, he’s not gay, .  Plus I really object to your verbiage.  Although I recognize your right to be fearful of gay men, I do not understand it.  But here is a list of manly men for you:

Clark Gable, Montgomery Clift, Robert Reed, Raymond Burr, Marlon Brando, Rock Hudson, and a modern favor of min-a really manly guy-Guillermo Diaz.  Really great actors, really manly men, really gay.  

As for manly men don’t shave their legs, , my manly man, a sgt in the marines at Camp Pendleton took his platoon for an early morning run every morning.  One day he embarrassed me.  . He thought he was being funny.  Yup.  That night, while he slept, I shaved his legs.

He took his platoon for their run, the next morning, with shaved legs.  Shaved legs have nothing to do with ****** orientation, they have more to do with a very angry wife.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 24, 2020)

Chet said:


> We used to have a policeman in this town who got fired for using the police computer for doing work regarding his private martial arts studio, and for soliciting sex from other men. How do you categorize this person?


I would categorize them as being stupid, every one knows not to use the companies computer for personal use.


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## oldman (Nov 24, 2020)

My dad was very manly. I think he spit testosterone. My mom told me a few times that when dad was dressed for an evening event with the Army, with all of his medals and ribbons, he looked like a General, but was a First Sergeant. He was in three wars, two on the ground. My mom said that she loved being on dad’s arm when walking into the room at an event. 

 I thought Dad would blow his top when I enlisted in the Marines, but he couldn’t have been prouder. When I left for boot, I asked him if he had any advice for me. He said all he could tell me was to never volunteer for anything, even if they promise you a weekend pass, especially if they promise you a weekend pass.


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## boliverchadsworth (Nov 24, 2020)

Anne said:


> Rock Hudson was the damn goodlookingest hunk ever for a long time......but, as fate would have it.......


T


Anne said:


> Rock Hudson was the damn goodlookingest hunk ever for a long time......but, as fate would have it.......


Poor ole Rock was the punch line in many a many old baseball records jokes..."who got hit in the face by the most pitched balls?" but in the interim some politicians have overtaken him.


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## oldman (Nov 24, 2020)

I always thought Robert Stack was a very manly looking fellow, especially when playing a tough guy, but not in the movie “Airplane.”


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## win231 (Nov 24, 2020)

I can't watch this without smiling.


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## Meanderer (Nov 24, 2020)

A century ago, Manly was a popular man's name. In 2009 I researched a photo of people playing Croquet in front of a big house, in Clinton Maine.  It was built in 1888, by Manly Morrison, a real Mover and Shaker in the Town of Clinton.  I never found a picture of Manly.


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## Aneeda72 (Nov 24, 2020)

Meanderer said:


> A century ago, Manly was a popular man's name. In 2009 I researched a photo of people playing Croquet in front of a big house, in Clinton Maine.  It was built in 1888, by Manly Morrison, a real Mover and Shaker in the Town of Clinton.  I never found a picture of Manly, but this is a picture, that I just found online.  He owned the first Stanley Steamer in town, and was a Town leader and entrepreneur.  He also owned the Towns Croquet factory, so he may be one of the men in the picture, but I could never find proof.
> 
> View attachment 135175 View attachment 135177


Well, hopefully Maney was, well, manly


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## jerry old (Nov 24, 2020)

Were all too old to change each other's life experiences or opinions.
I think it is a change in perception,  a shift in societal thinking, some like it, some don't.
Geneticist have their chromosome studies-ah an explanation.  No, don't buy it.
Our knowledge grows faster than one person can keep track of the changes.
We of many decades have our personal experiences and opinions, don't think they will change.


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## MarciKS (Nov 24, 2020)

It's not that I think anyone's gay. It's just a little too crossdresser-ish for me. *wrinkles nose*


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## grahamg (Nov 24, 2020)

I remember twenty years ago whilst going through the changing rooms at work, one young man half my age then, so in his twenties, returning to the changing rooms because he'd forgotten to spray his underarms with antiperspirant.
I doubt he had any body odour issues, and there were showers to use, I just think it was part of the routine for his generation every day, whilst I'd only use "Brute" or whatever brand was prevalent at the time, when preparing to go out socialising.
As an aside there was a young secretary who worked in an office with the bosses secretary who did have some body odour issues, much to the discomfort of the other lady, but we were all glad to say she improved in that department eventually!


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## Mat (Nov 24, 2020)

This one time I'll keep my mouth shut and let the cat do the talking


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## grahamg (Nov 25, 2020)

We must all be able to think of men we were a bit in awe of growing up, us slightly "beta males", who can't beat our chests so loudly.

Physical strength came into it obviously, and some were icons of screen and cinema, or sporting heroes, (Kirk Douglas, Burt Lancaster, Cassius/Mohammed Ali,), but some of them proved to have feet of clay didn't they, going off the rails later in life perhaps.

In my lifetime there was a lad called Clive at school, who was a sporting star, good at everything, loads of friends, with blonde hair, very successful and popular with the local girls, he stood out head and shoulders above everyone else.

Another lad who unlike Clive was more of a mate than someone I was in awe of, but he was almost as hood at sport, had a long term girlfriend etc., but both died tragically young before their full potential was anything like reached.

Those who have achieved the most from my school days were lads I'd never have imagined could go so far, one who was almost up there in sport, and captained our team, and was very bright academically, is now the vice chancellor of a prestigious university in Scotland, and was knighted five years ago for his achievements. You wouldn't have described him as a manly man at all, but he's exceeded everyone else in my year I believe.


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## peramangkelder (Nov 25, 2020)

Would you believe there is a beachside suburb in Northern Sydney in the state of New South Wales in Australia called Manly


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## win231 (Nov 26, 2020)

Some women are manly.  I dated her, but I had to break it off for my own safety.


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## fuzzybuddy (Nov 26, 2020)

I believe what is a "male" man is whatever floats your boat. You have your own interpretation of male beauty. One thing that has always got me was when some put forth John Wayne as the ideal of manliness.  Yeah, "The Duke" was an actor, who portrayed a hard drinkin', two fisted, ladies' magnet. Off screen, he was  differnt person. What always cracked me up was the "John Wayne Walk, it's hard to see manly male with that strut. Yet some do. It's  what floats  your boat.


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## Aunt Marg (Nov 26, 2020)




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## 911 (Nov 26, 2020)

SeaBreeze said:


> There's more and more men nowadays shaving their legs, waxing their chests and eyebrows, now even wearing make up on a daily basis.  I saw on a morning talk show this guy who used make up every morning just like a woman, because it evened out his skin tone and made him look healthier.  I think more and more men are becoming more feminine...I like a man with chest hair (and a pair). :hair: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-increasing-pressure-beautify-themselves.html


Forget all that crap. I doubt if very few men in our generation do those things, but I believe we may be the last generation to do them. My grandfather’s and then my dad’s generations were real men to me. Different time, different people, different things of importance.


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## MarciKS (Nov 26, 2020)

We have a lot of effeminate men where I work. Most are younger. If I were younger they would not appeal to me. Some may be cute but I prefer something more sensual and manly. To me a man bun and skinny jeans is not what I consider manly.

Oh I just had a thought...they're too GQ.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 26, 2020)

Nathan said:


> I see this development as strictly a product of successful mental manipulation through brilliant product* marketing*.   First women, now men. Advertising subtling shaping our society, our lives to  want what is being sold.
> 
> Back in the mid sixties: remember how the Beatlemania swept the U.S., influencing clothing and hair styles?   Nothing's changed, except that with the internet and social media and all the bots and AIs, our innermost impulse tenancies are being exploited by retailers and sellers of all types.


A lot of truth in what you said @Nathan.  I started this thread in 2013, and I think the topic, especially related to body builders was on a TV show or something, and it triggered my posting about this.

I really always was open-minded and have grown a lot even since 2013.  I still don't care for men who are narcissistic body builders, but that's their business, we all have reasons for doing the things we do.

Growing up in the sixties, there were a lot of guys who started wearing their hair long, and I loved it, still do.  It had nothing really to do with their manhood, in fact they had to have been more confident about themselves to even do that and face ridicule.

  Over time, since my teens really, I've seen a lot of men with different styles, a little make up, piercings, whatever, is fine with me, who am I to judge?  And you're right, the marketing towards men these day in the area of appearance is just as strong as it is toward the women.

The older I get the more I appreciate each individual for what is inside their heart, not their physical appearance or preferences.  Men certainly don't have to look and act 'macho' for me to like them and respect them.

  Back in the day like in the 40s and 50s, I think some men spent their entire lives trying to look and act more macho, they feared ever even being seen crying, because it was a sign of weakness and something only women did.  Some didn't even want to be seen cooking, cleaning or anything they labeled as women's housework.  Those men were likely less 'manly' deep inside than the modern day guys.

Times have changed, and for the better in my opinion.  Life is good and I respect all others, except those who harm animals or other human beings.  Appearance is pretty petty, it's what's inside that matters.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 26, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> I'm more attracted to the "manly" man but have had friends that were a bit more feminine looking, too.


I've had a few gay friends over the years, they were good people and had all my respect.  It was great having them in my life.


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## Ruthanne (Nov 26, 2020)

SeaBreeze said:


> I've had a few gay friends over the years, they were good people and had all my respect.  It was great having them in my life.


Good for you.  The men I spoke of who were feminine looking, though, were not gay.  David Bowie BTW was not gay either.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 26, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> Good for you.  The men I spoke of who were feminine looking, though, were not gay.  David Bowie BTW was not gay either.


Yes, I understand with well known celebrities that a lot of their appearance especially during a performance could vary, and have nothing to do with their private lives.  I always liked Bowie, his looks, music and style.


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## StarSong (Nov 26, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> Good for you.  The men I spoke of who were feminine looking, though, were not gay.  David Bowie BTW was not gay either.


David Bowie was open about being bisexual.


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## MarciKS (Nov 26, 2020)

I'm not saying it's wrong for men to look effeminate, I'm just saying I wouldn't want to date it. That has nothing to do with what they're like on the inside.


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## Ruthanne (Nov 26, 2020)

StarSong said:


> David Bowie was open about being bisexual.


Yes at first but then he married a woman.  He was with her till he died.
  Anyhow what I meant is that he wasn't strictly gay or into men. There is a difference between being bisexual and gay.


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## Murrmurr (Nov 26, 2020)

End of the Manly Man?​Nah, we're still around.


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## Shalimar (Nov 27, 2020)

SeaBreeze said:


> A lot of truth in what you said @Nathan.  I started this thread in 2013, and I think the topic, especially related to body builders was on a TV show or something, and it triggered my posting about this.
> 
> I really always was open-minded and have grown a lot even since 2013.  I still don't care for men who are narcissistic body builders, but that's their business, we all have reasons for doing the things we do.
> 
> ...


SeaBreeze, such a true and powerful statement. May I please post it for my clients?some of them really need to hear this


----------



## horseless carriage (Feb 13, 2021)

Do men wear perfume? It was a thought that made think of starting a new thread but this thread sort of debates a man's man. Perfume can be after shave, or deodorant or fragrance. I have always, from an early age, given my neck a squirt of male fragrance after washing and it has never had any sort of negative comment. On the contrary, time and again my wife has been told that: "Your husband smells nice." Such is the verdict when you social kiss your friend's wives. 

To me, being sociably agreeable, means a fresh fragrance, fresh breath and clean appearance. Manly or not, I couldn't expect my wife to hold hands with me if I hadn't made sure that my finger nails were not scrupulously clean. If that cuts against the manly definition, so be it.


----------



## mellowyellow (Feb 13, 2021)

peramangkelder said:


> Would you believe there is a beachside suburb in Northern Sydney in the state of New South Wales in Australia called Manly


Yep, it was named by Captain Arthur Phillip for the Indigenous people living there, stating that *"their confidence and manly behaviour made me give the name of Manly Cove to this place"*. These men were of the Kay-ye-my clan (of the Guringai people).


----------



## Gaer (Feb 13, 2021)

If a woman loves a man, she will love him when he smells like sweat, has dirt under his fingernails and calluses  on his hands.
Yes, fresh breath, manly fragrance and clean appearance are also wonderful. debonaire, distinguished, class!

My first husbands pockets were always filled with barfly's phone numbers.  When I did my 2nd huband's laundry, i found fender washers. 
I ran to him and kissed him over and over!

Seabreeze said it right! A real man has chest hair and a pair!


----------



## grahamg (Feb 13, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> Do men wear perfume? It was a thought that made think of starting a new thread but this thread sort of debates a man's man. Perfume can be after shave, or deodorant or fragrance. I have always, from an early age, given my neck a squirt of male fragrance after washing and it has never had any sort of negative comment. On the contrary, time and again my wife has been told that: "Your husband smells nice." Such is the verdict when you social kiss your friend's wives.
> To me, being sociably agreeable, means a fresh fragrance, fresh breath and clean appearance. Manly or not, I couldn't expect my wife to hold hands with me if I hadn't made sure that my finger nails were not scrupulously clean. If that cuts against the manly definition, so be it.


I think you may be a bit of an exception or outlier on keeping your finger nails so clean and not expecting your wife to hold hands otherwise, (though my farming mates probably wouldn't hold hands with their missus's in public anyway!), though I don't think it makes you any less a man, not least because I can't imagine James Bond having dirty finger nails either!


----------



## Jules (Feb 13, 2021)

Gaer said:


> If a woman loves a man, she will love him when he smells like sweat, has dirt under his fingernails and calluses on his hands.
> Yes, fresh breath, manly fragrance and clean appearance are also wonderful. debonaire, distinguished, class!


Agreeing with a caveat.  If someone has the ability to be clean and doesn’t bother because they don’t care, no matter the gender, I’m not impressed.


----------



## Nathan (Feb 13, 2021)

I don't wear any artificial fragrances, just use unscented soap to keep clean.    I don't like perfume on women, aggravates my bronchial asthma.


----------



## grahamg (Feb 13, 2021)

Nathan said:


> I don't wear any artificial fragrances, just use unscented soap to keep clean.    I don't like perfume on women, aggravates my bronchial asthma.


I once felt I contracted slight eye infections, maybe due to my girlfriends use of eye shadow etc., that can't be completely sterile once opened can it, (though it didn't seem to effect her, "perhaps I'm sensitive", ).


----------



## Keesha (Feb 13, 2021)

SifuPhil said:


> Probably because 2/3 of Americans are plus-sized ...
> 
> I remember the first time I wore a full wet suit when I was scuba diving in Key West. The suit was tight - tighter even than it was supposed to be. I could barely breathe. It was so tight you could tell what religion I was.
> 
> ...


Hahaha. A very funny guy.


----------



## StarSong (Feb 14, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> The older I get the more I appreciate each individual for what is inside their heart, not their physical appearance or preferences. Men certainly don't have to look and act 'macho' for me to like them and respect them.
> 
> Back in the day like in the 40s and 50s, I think some men spent their entire lives trying to look and act more macho, they feared ever even being seen crying, because it was a sign of weakness and something only women did. Some didn't even want to be seen cooking, cleaning or anything they labeled as women's housework. Those men were likely less 'manly' deep inside than the modern day guys.
> 
> Times have changed, and for the better in my opinion. Life is good and I respect all others, except those who harm animals or other human beings. Appearance is pretty petty, it's what's inside that matters.


Amen!


----------



## SeaBreeze (Feb 14, 2021)

Nathan said:


> I don't wear any artificial fragrances, just use unscented soap to keep clean.    I don't like perfume on women, aggravates my bronchial asthma.


I never liked perfume or cologne myself, my husband doesn't use anything like that either.  If I'm near someone who is doused in perfume, it will make me want to sneeze, I avoid the smell.


----------



## StarSong (Feb 14, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> I never liked perfume or cologne myself, my husband doesn't use anything like that either.  If I'm near someone who is doused in perfume, it will make me want to sneeze, I avoid the smell.


Same here.  Fortunately, fewer and fewer people seem to overuse scents.


----------



## Gaer (Feb 14, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> I never liked perfume or cologne myself, my husband doesn't use anything like that either.  If I'm near someone who is doused in perfume, it will make me want to sneeze, I avoid the smell.


Ivory soap smells good on a man.
I think.
Trying to remember.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Feb 14, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Ivory soap smells good on a man.
> I think.
> Trying to remember.


My husband uses Nivea body wash for men, it has mint extract in it and he smells delicious fresh out of the shower.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 14, 2021)

In all honesty, I don't see what the controversy is all about. People should just be themselves without others judging their appearances. After all, women today often wear ties, masculine fitted blazers, and fedoras while others cut their hair very short. In the past TV gossip commentators used to announce Hollywood weddings on the nightly news but you don't see this as often nowadays - could it be because so many Hollywood marriages today  are of same sex couples, most if not all of whom are female couples? There's no controversy or social misgivings about any of this.  Nor should there be any.

Live and let live, I always say.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 15, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> My husband uses Nivea body wash for men, it has mint extract in it and he smells delicious fresh out of the shower.




I understand Nivea has a lavender smell.  That's smart because lavender is a smell that mosquitoes hate (and I mean *HATE*).  For too many years I've been the type that attracts those dang blasted bugs whenever I've been outdoors in summer. A couple of years ago, I read where it can be used to scare away those and other bugs.  Much to my surprise it works. Because of that I often  use lavender botanical soap, detergent, fabric softener, and deodorant.  Now I can go outdoors in the summer and stay free of those ###########  that I detest so much!


----------



## Aunt Marg (Feb 15, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I understand Nivea has a lavender smell.  That's smart because lavender is a smell that mosquitoes hate (and I mean *HATE*).  For too many years I've been the type that attracts those dang blasted bugs whenever I've been outdoors in summer. A couple of years ago, I read where it can be used to scare away those and other bugs.  Much to my surprise it works. Because of that I often  use lavender botanical soap, detergent, fabric softener, and deodorant.  Now I can go outdoors in the summer and stay free of those ###########  that I detest so much!


I just learned something from your post, had no idea lavender acts as a natural mosquito repellant.

I'm with you, Oldie, in that those pesky little devils just love me and my blood!


----------



## ronk (Feb 16, 2021)

I've never been a Manly Man. I even cried at my own wedding. I am very sensitive and emotional. I always struggle to find a good balance or control so I can function properly. But I haven't shied away from potentially dangerous situations. In the past, I surprised myself and others when I was a security guard. I actively chased shoplifters and intervened in fights, etc. Eventually I decided to get another job before I got injured or killed.

I don't wax or shave my body. My body hair is barely noticeable. In fact, people often ask if I shaved or waxed my body!


----------



## Gaer (Feb 16, 2021)

Real men can be sensitive and emotional.  This shows the beauty and the tenderness in your heart.


----------



## grahamg (Feb 16, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Real men can be sensitive and emotional.  This shows the beauty and the tenderness in your heart.


My paternal grandfather was known in the family for two things, his quick temper first it must be said, but then as you suggest crying too about things that mattered to him, and a more manly and a more proud man you're never likely to have met, (there's a photo of him surrounded by his family, myself as a babe in arms, taken in 1954 on one of these threads).


----------



## Dana (Feb 16, 2021)

Now that I have a rather obscure vision of what a "manly man" is supposed to be. Wonder what a womanly woman is? Or should this be a new thread!


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 16, 2021)

Dana said:


> Now that I have a rather obscure vision of what a "manly man" is supposed to be. Wonder what a womanly woman is? Or should this be a new thread!





I did hint at that previously because society does seem to have a double standard in re to issues such as this.  You might remember a short while ago when certain people  of a rather inflexible political viewpoint (I won't say which one) was all up in arms about drag queen library hour:


 tinyurl.com/f6jgcscd


These pundits said such a thing led to the moral breakdown of society and should be stopped at once.  Yet, people pointed out that society has always tolerated (and even honored) reverse drag queens such as Peter Pan for the past 100+ years:











How can one be right and the other wrong?  In order for a principle to be valid it must be applied on a uniform, not a selective, basis.  Whether society will ever learn to live by genuine principle remains to be seen.


----------



## StarSong (Feb 17, 2021)

@OldiebutGoodie, Wouldn't you agree that petite female actresses playing prepubescent boys in Broadway shows is an anomaly?  Finding children of either gender capable of playing the extraordinarily demanding Peter Pan role every night on would be a very tall order indeed.  Not to mention needing to replace them after a growth spurt or voice change.       

Yes, society is far more forgiving of women blurring lines that of men. Perhaps that's because more men are insecure about their masculinity than about women's femininity, and are therefore threatened by effeminate men but not masculine women. Also, a lot of men seem to have ****** fantasies involving lesbian scenarios. Not sure why, but they do. 

Women have been picking up "male roles" since Adam and Eve left the Garden. Widows had to pick up the slack for their families lest they starve or become charity cases. During wartime women took men's jobs over, and, let's face it, traditional men's apparel (pants and shirts rather than dresses and skirts) are far more practical for everyday living. 

The women (and men, for that matter) who I know don't give a hang about whether a woman is more or less feminine or if a man is more or less masculine.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 17, 2021)

@StarSong 


I do my very best to refrain from sitting in judgment of anyone.  All that I ask for is consistency in the application of principles. If one is wrong then so is the other.  If one is ok, then so is the other.  My problem is when society chooses to be selective in its principles.  This, in my book, is prejudice and has no justification.

Let me just include one link to an article which criticizes Peter Pan as Satanic:

Peter Pan & The Lost Generation – Exposing Satanism and Witchcraft


While some of this is a bit exaggerated, there is some truth in its premise.  You are free to accept or reject any portion of its conclusions. 



Oh by the way, the photo I used of several actresses portraying Peter Pan does not appear on my screen _ I wonder why (?)


----------



## StarSong (Feb 17, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Let me just include one link to an article which criticizes Peter Pan as Satanic:
> 
> Peter Pan & The Lost Generation – Exposing Satanism and Witchcraft
> While some of this is a bit exaggerated, there is some truth in its premise.  You are free to accept or reject any portion of its conclusions.


Good grief.  I reject all of its conclusions.  

As for even-handedness across the board. I agree. Men need to lighten up about effeminate men.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 17, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Men need to lighten up about effeminate men.




some women, too


----------



## Mr. Ed (Feb 17, 2021)

As long as there are proper hormones, males will be males unless they are not


----------



## Jim W. (Feb 17, 2021)

StarSong said:


> @OldiebutGoodie, Wouldn't you agree that petite female actresses playing prepubescent boys in Broadway shows is an anomaly?  Finding children of either gender capable of playing the extraordinarily demanding Peter Pan role every night on would be a very tall order indeed.  *Not to mention needing to replace them after a growth spurt or voice change.      *
> 
> Yes, society is far more forgiving of women blurring lines that of men. Perhaps that's because more men are insecure about their masculinity than about women's femininity, and are therefore threatened by effeminate men but not masculine women. Also, a lot of men seem to have ****** fantasies involving lesbian scenarios. Not sure why, but they do.
> 
> ...


That is the reason why the voice of Bart Simpson is done by a woman.

If Charles M. Schultz had been smart(er) he'd have voiced all The Peanuts characters with women.


----------



## win231 (Feb 17, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I just learned something from your post, had no idea lavender acts as a natural mosquito repellant.
> 
> I'm with you, Oldie, in that those pesky little devils just love me and my blood!


Me, too, until I started using 100% DEET every summer.  The smell goes away after 15 minutes & NOTHING will go near me - mosquitoes, flies, nothing.
And it makes me feel so rejected........


----------



## win231 (Feb 17, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Good grief.  I reject all of its conclusions.
> 
> As for even-handedness across the board. I agree. Men need to lighten up about effeminate men.


That's right.  If I want to wear panties, that's my business.


----------



## horseless carriage (Feb 17, 2021)

End of the Manly Man?​Two photos from a website titled: "What real men wear!"


----------



## Aunt Marg (Feb 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> Me, too, until I started using 100% DEET every summer.  The smell goes away after 15 minutes & NOTHING will go near me - mosquitoes, flies, nothing.
> And it makes me feel so rejected........


We're going to be putting it to the test this summer! 

Many years ago my husband used to use musk oil, or something like that, I may have to ask him what the name was again, and he said it was outstanding, but it carried with it an unpleasant odour, and it was super oily, which my husband loathed.


----------



## win231 (Feb 17, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> We're going to be putting it to the test this summer!
> 
> Many years ago my husband used to use musk oil, or something like that, I may have to ask him what the name was again, and he said it was outstanding, but it carried with it an unpleasant odour, and it was super oily, which my husband loathed.


I was also concerned about it being oily & smelling.  When you first put it on, it's a little oily but that goes away after a few minutes.
I posted about it last year.  I described how I not only got no mosquito bites, but there is an outdoor produce market that I shop at during the summer.  They have goats  & sheep in a pen & (of course) I have to pet them.  Before I started using DEET, I would have many flies on me.  After DEET, not a single fly would go near me.
I use this one but any brand that says "100% DEET" would work.




Coleman 100 Max 100% DEET Insect Repellent Pump for Ticks and Mosquitos - 4 oz Bottle
_4.6 out of 5 stars_ 811
$12.31
3 used and new from $12.31


----------



## Gary O' (Feb 17, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> After all, women today often wear ties, masculine fitted blazers, and fedoras while others cut their hair very short.


A woman can wear anything...anything

They still look like a woman
*(WOOF!)*

On the flip side, a guy, wearing wimin's garb looks ridiculous


----------



## Aunt Marg (Feb 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> I was also concerned about it being oily & smelling.  When you first put it on, it's a little oily but that goes away after a few minutes.
> I posted about it last year.  I described how I not only got no mosquito bites, but there is an outdoor produce market that I shop at during the summer.  They have goats  & sheep in a pen & (of course) I have to pet them.  Before I started using DEET, I would have many flies on me.  After DEET, not a single fly would go near me.
> I use this one but any brand that says "100% DEET" would work.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting about, Win.

I do remember your post about it last year, but being so late in the season and not having much of a mosquito year last year, we never gave it a go, but am definitely looking forward to trying it this year, especially when I'm out gardening.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Feb 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> That's right.  If I want to wear panties, that's my business.


Choose grannies, Win, they're the most comfortable!


----------



## Tish (Feb 17, 2021)

I'm still not used to them wearing their hair in a "Man-Bun".


----------



## tbeltrans (Feb 17, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> View attachment 150434View attachment 150435
> End of the Manly Man?​Two photos from a website titled: "What real men wear!"


It has always been a curious thing to me, why some men choose to dress up as women.  I am not talking about cross-dresser types, but typical men.  They do it for a party gag or in a movie such as Jack Lemmon, or on stage.  But these folks seem to just need the slightest nudge and off they go into the wild girly yonder.  It always seemed to me that some of those older women's fashions such as high heels, corsets, etc., were designed by men who hate women, or at least have a strong dislike for them and certainly don't want them to dress comfortably.  So why would a man want to do that instead of being glad/grateful that we have not had to do that?

Tony


----------



## Aunt Marg (Feb 17, 2021)

Tish said:


> I'm still not used to them wearing their hair in a "Man-Bun".


Some things are just wrong, that's one of them.


----------



## Jules (Feb 17, 2021)

What does it matter to anyone why someone wants to wear a man bun or a corset?  If it doesn’t affect you, other than your sensitive perceptions, what‘s the problem?  There are a heck of a lot other things in life that are much more disturbing.  Priorities, please.


----------



## Keesha (Feb 17, 2021)

Jules said:


> What does it matter to anyone why someone wants to wear a man bun or a corset?  If it doesn’t affect you, other than your sensitive perceptions, what‘s the problem?  There are a heck of a lot other things in life that are much more disturbing.  Priorities, please.


I tend to agree. What business is it to anyone how someone else chooses to express themselves? If they aren’t hurting you personally then ‘live & let live,’ and ‘don’t sweat the small stuff.’ This IS small stuff. There certainly are more important things to worry about besides how men decide to wear their hair or what clothes they decide to wear.  Seriously who cares?


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 17, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> A woman can wear anything...anything
> 
> They still look like a woman
> *(WOOF!)*
> ...





Growing up in NY years ago some of us teased our pals on St Patrick's Day about the garments they wore on that special day.  You know, the garments that looked like a cross between a dress and a kitchen apron.  Some folks don't find that so manly.  But, as always, judge not lest ye be judge I always say ...


----------



## Dana (Feb 17, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> View attachment 150434View attachment 150435
> End of the Manly Man?​Two photos from a website titled: "What real men wear!"



I think that's a bit ridiculous. However I see nothing wrong with the man-bun. I have cast my eye many a time over a man-bunner  but he has to be young, a chiseled face, tall and slim


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 17, 2021)

win231 said:


> I was also concerned about it being oily & smelling.  When you first put it on, it's a little oily but that goes away after a few minutes.
> I posted about it last year.  I described how I not only got no mosquito bites, but there is an outdoor produce market that I shop at during the summer.  They have goats  & sheep in a pen & (of course) I have to pet them.  Before I started using DEET, I would have many flies on me.  After DEET, not a single fly would go near me.
> I use this one but any brand that says "100% DEET" would work.
> 
> ...







Deet can be  hyperallergenic.  I remember years ago when a guy about 30 of age sprayed himself with it as he was about to have a picnic. Only minutes later he fainted from the fumes, hit his head on the concrete ground and was declared dead at the scene.   If you must use chemical rather than natural spray please consider Picaridin.


----------



## Keesha (Feb 17, 2021)

Dana said:


> I think that's a bit ridiculous. However I see nothing wrong with the man-bun. I have cast my eye many a time over a man-bunner  but he has to be young, a chiseled face, tall and slim


----------



## Keesha (Feb 17, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Deet can be  hyperallergenic.  I remember years ago when a guy about 30 of age sprayed himself with it as he was about to have a picnic. Only minutes later he fainted from the fumes, hit his head on the concrete ground and was declared dead at the scene.   If you must use chemical rather than natural spray please consider Picaridin.


Agree. Deed is considered poisonous.


----------



## tbeltrans (Feb 17, 2021)

Jules said:


> What does it matter to anyone why someone wants to wear a man bun or a corset?  If it doesn’t affect you, other than your sensitive perceptions, what‘s the problem?  There are a heck of a lot other things in life that are much more disturbing.  Priorities, please.


While I agree with your sentiment, it seems normal to me to always be curious about the things we see around us and wonder why a thing is as it is.  But, then, curiosity killed the cat, as the saying goes.

Tony


----------



## Dana (Feb 17, 2021)

Keesha said:


> View attachment 150448


_Now that's what I'm talking about!_


----------



## Aunt Marg (Feb 17, 2021)

Keesha said:


> View attachment 150448


I agree, that looks really... uh, cute.

Maybe a little eyeliner, lipstick, and some hoop earrings to go along with it.


----------



## Keesha (Feb 17, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> I agree, that looks really... uh, cute.
> 
> Maybe a little eyeliner, lipstick, and some hoop earrings to go along with it.


If that’s your thing, who am I to judge.


----------



## win231 (Feb 17, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> Some things are just wrong, that's one of them.


I like man buns.  'cuz laughter is the best medicine.


----------



## fmdog44 (Feb 18, 2021)

StarSong said:


> David Bowie was open about being bisexual.


Him & Jagger were "buddies"


----------



## squatting dog (Feb 18, 2021)




----------



## Rosemarie (Feb 18, 2021)

Men are vain creatures, more so than women I think. The modern trend for feminine men allows them to indulge their self-love. Perhaps if more women voiced their disapproval, they might change their attitude.


----------



## timoc (Feb 18, 2021)

The saving grace for us proper men is that we only have two feet, so having 372 pairs of shoes is not required.


----------



## Dana (Feb 18, 2021)

I get on well with the male species. Having several brothers has taught me how to deal with a lot of personalities. So I appreciate my husband.


----------



## StarSong (Feb 18, 2021)

win231 said:


> Me, too, until I started using 100% DEET every summer.  The smell goes away after 15 minutes & NOTHING will go near me - mosquitoes, flies, nothing.
> And it makes me feel so rejected........


Wow!  Great hint.  The tiny mosquitos that invaded our area a few years ago have become such an annoyance.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 18, 2021)

Rosemarie said:


> Men are vain creatures, more so than women I think. The modern trend for feminine men allows them to indulge their self-love. Perhaps if more women voiced their disapproval, they might change their attitude.





Liberace, Johnnie Ray, Freddie Mercury, Elton John always displayed some degree of feminine flamboyancy and it is well established that the vast majority of their fans were always female.  These guys have been around for decades and there are just as many if not more in Europe. But, as I always say, to each his or her own.


----------



## win231 (Feb 18, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Wow!  Great hint.  The tiny mosquitos that invaded our area a few years ago have become such an annoyance.


I read up on mosquitoes.  The tiny ones are females & they are the only ones that bite.  The larger ones are males.  They don't bite.  They live on nectar; not blood.
https://www.mosquitosquad.com/great.../july/why-only-female-mosquitoes-drink-blood/


----------



## win231 (Feb 18, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Liberace, Johnnie Ray, Freddie Mercury, Elton John always displayed some degree of feminine flamboyancy and it is well established that the vast majority of their fans were always female.  These guys have been around for decades and there are just as many if not more in Europe. But, as I always say, to each his or her own.


Yes, most of Barry Manilow's fans are also female.


----------



## Gaer (Feb 18, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Liberace, Johnnie Ray, Freddie Mercury, Elton John always displayed some degree of feminine flamboyancy and it is well established that the vast majority of their fans were always female.  These guys have been around for decades and there are just as many if not more in Europe. But, as I always say, to each his or her own.


Some degree?  They flew around the room!


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 18, 2021)

win231 said:


> Yes, most of Barry Manilow's fans are also female.




Flamboyant Montii Rock III  has been openly gay since the mid 1960s.  He was a regular on the Merv Griffin and Johnny Carson shows and has made millions in Las Vegas.  His fan base is almost exclusively female as well.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Feb 18, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Some degree?  They flew around the room!


ROFLMAO!


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 18, 2021)

Gaer said:


> They flew around the room!




HAHAHAHA!!!!  I love that line!

By the way, Montii Rock makes them all look like they are standing still!


----------



## Aunt Marg (Feb 18, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> *HAHAHAHA!!!!  I love that line!*
> 
> By the way, Montii Rock makes them all look like they are standing still!


Me, too, Oldie! LOL!


----------



## fuzzybuddy (Feb 18, 2021)

I checked, and I'm still the man I was at 13. And I believe men are still endowed as male. So if there is an end of the "Manly Male", it is not due to biological forces. Maybe it is because the  image of a "Manly Male" is something from the pages of those shmaltzy, overly romanticized,  "he caressed me with his eyes", women's novels. It is an image that never was in real life.  And it could be that we're at the end of the Feminine Female?


----------



## Gaer (Feb 18, 2021)

Do you  think the reason women are not as feminine anymore is because men are not as masculine?  They had to step up and take care of things? 
Men seem more afraid.  I remember when i was dating, in California between marriages, and I'd ask my date if he would start a fire in the wood fireplace while I cooked dinner.  They didn't know how!
I asked if they ever used an outhouse and they would say "ick!  eeuuugh!"
I asked them if they knew what an "easy out" was, and they would say, "a lie you  make up to get out of a date."
And they were afraid to move or travel or do anything out of their little comfort zone.  
If men are like this now, what will the next generations be? 
There still exists a few real men and THANK GOD FOR YOU!


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Feb 18, 2021)

Women complaining about men not being as masculine today.
Men complaining about women not being as feminine today.

Me?  I say just be yourself. Make your own kind of music, like we used to say back in the 1960s.


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## fuzzybuddy (Feb 18, 2021)

It's not the men, who have changed, but one's  own image of what a "Manly Man " is. Granted most men don't know the first thing about skinning  a bear, but neither do  most women. And I've gone camping with  women, who wandered around the forest looking for the plug for their  electric hair styling comb. Does that make them less feminine?   And in the 21st century, which is more relevant, being able to  do a cost value estimation of profits and devaluations of economic growth over time, or starting a fire. Which is "manly" may depend more on your needs.


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## Aunt Marg (Feb 18, 2021)

Gaer said:


> *Do you  think the reason women are not as feminine anymore is because men are not as masculine?  They had to step up and take care of things?*
> Men seem more afraid.  I remember when i was dating, in California between marriages, and I'd ask my date if he would start a fire in the wood fireplace while I cooked dinner.  They didn't know how!
> I asked if they ever used an outhouse and they would say "ick!  eeuuugh!"
> I asked them if they knew what an "easy out" was, and they would say, "a lie you  make up to get out of a date."
> ...


Bingo, Gaer!

I see a general decline and level of incompetence nowadays among young mothers/housewives/homemakers, not all, but many, in the fact that the men of the homes are doing more, and more, and more around the home (all the time), and that's on top of holding down a fulltime job.

Having been born and raised in a traditional, old-fashioned home, I remember there being a distinct divide in our house in relation to chores and duties of the man of the house/family, and sure, husbands and wives supported one another, absolutely, but when it came to the bulk of the housework, baby/childcare, cooking, groceries, shopping, etc, that was unequivocally the woman's end of things, to the point of the woman of the house making it clear to the man of the house to, _stay out of her way_, with work outside the home reserved for the men.

Being the old-fashioned type that I am, the same held true in our home, and I wouldn't have had it, or seen it any other way. I have no problem seeing a man occasionally pushing a baby stroller or running a vacuum over the floor, but not all the time, and on the occasions the man of the house is seen pushing a baby stroller or vacuum, it had better be on his terms, because he wants to, not because he's being forced to by his wife, or because his wife is too lazy to.


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## Gary O' (Feb 18, 2021)

Gaer said:


> If men are like this now, what will the next generations be?
> There still exists a few real men and THANK GOD FOR YOU!


Spoken by a real woman

It's been said 'to each* his* own'

Heh, even Shakespeare is outa date

Glad I'm old

I'll be in the shop


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## timoc (Feb 18, 2021)

I'm in the shed, stripped to the waist with an axe in both hands splitting logs without even raising a sweat. In my mouth, I've got one of those little harmonicas and I'm playing, 'The Deadwood Stage' while doing a clog-dance.


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## Aunt Marg (Feb 18, 2021)

timoc said:


> I'm in the shed, stripped to the waist with an axe in both hands splitting logs without even raising a sweat. In my mouth, I've got one of those little harmonicas and I'm playing, 'The Deadwood Stage' while doing a clog-dance.


Not bad, but allow me to pass on a little advice your way. 

Lose the harmonica and dance, put on a plaid flannel shirt and roll up the sleeves, and don't be afraid to break a bead. Now that's manly!


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## Shalimar (Feb 18, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Do you  think the reason women are not as feminine anymore is because men are not as masculine?  They had to step up and take care of things?
> Men seem more afraid.  I remember when i was dating, in California between marriages, and I'd ask my date if he would start a fire in the wood fireplace while I cooked dinner.  They didn't know how!
> I asked if they ever used an outhouse and they would say "ick!  eeuuugh!"
> I asked them if they knew what an "easy out" was, and they would say, "a lie you  make up to get out of a date."
> ...


  Excuse me, I am extremely feminine. Love Jimmy choo  shoes, silk dresses, and cuban heeled stockings. Also, completely capable of starting a fire, baking a pie, doing a bank reconciliation, supporting myself, sailing a boat, and refinishing furniture.

My idea of masculine men might avoid some passive aggressive emotionally castrated pseudo masculine Gary Cooper wannabes,  but I find plenty of other men to be very masculine indeed. ( Among the list, man buns, well trimmed facial hair and all.)

Particularly if they can cook and carry on an intelligent and informed conversation. They must love animals and care about the planet and other human beings. Compassion is key. Oh, and I don’t care if they have short hair or no hair at all. Lol if they love motor bikes, I am in heaven.


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## jerry old (Feb 18, 2021)

delete


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## Shalimar (Feb 18, 2021)

timoc said:


> I'm in the shed, stripped to the waist with an axe in both hands splitting logs without even raising a sweat. In my mouth, I've got one of those little harmonicas and I'm playing, 'The Deadwood Stage' while doing a clog-dance.


Hahahaha


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## Rosemarie (Feb 19, 2021)

I thought we were talking about feminine men, not gay men. There is a big difference. Most women like gay men. I think it's because they can enjoy their company without the 'sex' thing getting in the way. Many gay men are rather cute.
'Straight' men who are feminine are a different category.


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## Shalimar (Feb 19, 2021)

I don’t know about others, but I was referencing straight men. To me, these gentlemen are not effeminate in the least. I don’t have hard limits around what constitutes masculine and feminine. That is up to the individual. We are beautiful in our diversity.


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## Shalimar (Feb 19, 2021)

Many gay men are very masculine. Some too much so for me, ie the “leather daddies.” Lol
Of course, straight Dominants affect me the same way. Time to lighten things up a bit.


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## oldiebutgoody (Feb 19, 2021)

"Macho Man"








It's not quite what you think or have been led to believe. 


Among us Hispanics, we have had  this concept for ages. Thankfully, it is now in decline. It probably originated as a cover up to be used to mask the lack of money or any real power in an unjust society where opportunities for advancement are so limited. Among us there is some dispute as to who likes it more ~ men or women?  Not sure who to actually blame for it, but what is evident is that it is nonsensical.   

But what exactly is a "macho"? what does the term actually mean?  does it represent a real man? or does it represent something else?

The actual definition of a macho is,  *a male mule*:

Translation of Macho in Spanish (babylon-software.com):


Macho in English
male, of or pertaining to the male gender, masculine macho, strongly masculine or assertive man; _*mule*_, animal which is a hybrid of a horse and a donkey




Anyone who calls himself a 'macho man' is literally making an ass of himself - a strong, stupid, stubborn, and sterile animal. Birds of a feather stick together so this doesn't say much for the women who admire him. 

Bottom line - it's good to see the macho "man" go into decline.  Dumbest thing anywhere. Hopefully, it will soon completely disappear from our society.


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## fuzzybuddy (Feb 19, 2021)

I see a lot of posts from women, who wish for a John Wayne type to come riding in on a white horse, and care and protect them. And, of course, the men in their lives don't measure up. I don't know many two fisted, want to control everything  types.  Sounds more like potential wife beaters. I think some women look in men for something missing in their own lives. Sometimes, women find it. But if what you are looking for is so elusive then maybe it's a need that is impossible for  any real man to fulfill. John Wayne was a celluloid creation, while Marion Morrison was not.


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## Gaer (Feb 19, 2021)

jerry old said:


> delete


Thanks Jerry!  You didn't write it, but I knew what you were thinking!   hahaha!


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## jerry old (Feb 19, 2021)

I was running my trap line, a grizzly jumped out of the bushes and tried to eat me up.  It was nip and tuck-i finally stuck my knife in both of his eyes, no more griz.
I was stumbling home with my pelts, when a crazed moose pinned me to a tree.  I thought i was dead, still haven't made up my mind
on that... 
I was purty well bled out when i reached the cabin.  The though of my loving woman was all that kept me going.

I finally made it to the house, bloody and dying as far as I could tell; i slumped on the door.

My loving woman opened the door, "Don't you dare come in and walk on my clean floor.  Go to that snowbank and rub the mess off
yourself before you come into my house."

That why I moved into a cave with a grizzly.


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## Pecos (Feb 20, 2021)

I read this thread several times wondering if I could come up with an input. While not disputing anything that has already been presented, I will offer the following:

A manly man will get up every two hours at night for weeks to apply antibiotic salve and change the dressing on his wife's stitches following an intense eleven hour surgery on both eyes and part of her skull. He will comfort her and assure her that he loves her, always has loved her, and always will love her and any scarring she may have is simply unimportant. He will take vacation time so that he can continues taking care of her during the long days ahead. He will read to her. You can count on this kind of a guy, he is a man. All that macho stuff and how he dresses is mere trivia.


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## Gaer (Feb 20, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I read this thread several times wondering if I could come up with an input. While not disputing anything that has already been presented, I will offer the following:
> 
> A manly man will get up every two hours at night for weeks to apply antibiotic salve and change the dressing on his wife's stitches following an intense eleven hour surgery on both eyes and part of her skull. He will comfort her and assure her that he loves her, always has loved her, and always will love her and any scarring she may have is simply unimportant. He will take vacation time so that he can continues taking care of her during the long days ahead. He will read to her. You can count on this kind of a guy, he is a man. All that macho stuff and how he dresses is mere trivia.


Pecos, YOU NAILED IT!!!!!


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## Dana (Feb 20, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I read this thread several times wondering if I could come up with an input. While not disputing anything that has already been presented, I will offer the following:
> 
> A manly man will get up every two hours at night for weeks to apply antibiotic salve and change the dressing on his wife's stitches following an intense eleven hour surgery on both eyes and part of her skull. He will comfort her and assure her that he loves her, always has loved her, and always will love her and any scarring she may have is simply unimportant. He will take vacation time so that he can continues taking care of her during the long days ahead. He will read to her. You can count on this kind of a guy, he is a man. All that macho stuff and how he dresses is mere trivia.


_Beautiful Pecos...yes, that's a manly man. 
May I add, a manly man gets up during the night to comfort his pregnant wife when she is feeling sick. A manly man, helps to change diapers, a manly man helps in the kitchen. A manly man is one who does what is necessary without whinging. _


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## Shalimar (Feb 20, 2021)

Pecos, you are a MAN. Benchmark, for sure.


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## grahamg (Feb 20, 2021)

jerry old said:


> I was running my trap line, a grizzly jumped out of the bushes and tried to eat me up.  It was nip and tuck-i finally stuck my knife in both of his eyes, no more griz.
> I was stumbling home with my pelts, when a crazed moose pinned me to a tree.  I thought i was dead, still haven't made up my mind
> on that...
> I was purty well bled out when i reached the cabin.  The though of my loving woman was all that kept me going.
> ...


I can relate to that beautiful story, as maybe will others, life in a cave with a bear being better than a grizzly missus!


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## Gaer (Feb 20, 2021)

Just wanted to show you  what a real man looks like.
This was my late husband.  A Federal Marshal, shot 11 men in his life(in gunfights) and one night when I was in pain, he stayed up all night long and rocked me in his arms.  He had it all; the toughness and the tenderness.


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## Pecos (Feb 20, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I read this thread several times wondering if I could come up with an input. While not disputing anything that has already been presented, I will offer the following:
> 
> A manly man will get up every two hours at night for weeks to apply antibiotic salve and change the dressing on his wife's stitches following an intense eleven hour surgery on both eyes and part of her skull. He will comfort her and assure her that he loves her, always has loved her, and always will love her and any scarring she may have is simply unimportant. He will take vacation time so that he can continues taking care of her during the long days ahead. He will read to her. You can count on this kind of a guy, he is a man. All that macho stuff and how he dresses is mere trivia.


As it turned out, my wife had minimal scarring and after about four months was able to drive again. We did have several stressful weeks where she had double vision, but that cleared up on its own so she did not have to have a second surgery. At one point in her surgery they actually shaved part of the skull away around her eye socket. I shutter even now when I think about that.

But my wife has taken good care of me over the last 28 months as I have dealt with prostrate cancer. That is what couples who are in love do.


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## Gaer (Feb 20, 2021)

Pecos said:


> As it turned out, my wife had minimal scarring and after about four months was able to drive again. We did have several stressful weeks where she had double vision, but that cleared up on its own so she did not have to have a second surgery. At one point in her surgery they actually shaved part of the skull away around her eye socket. I shutter even now when I think about that.
> 
> But my wife had taken good care of me over the last 28 months as I have dealt with prostrate cancer. That is what couples who are in love do.


Oh No!  I am SO SORRY to hear about your disease!  I KNOW many of us will pray for you!  From what you have told us of your lovely wife, I know she is taking the best of care of you!


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## Shalimar (Feb 20, 2021)

Oh Pecos, I am sorry you had to endure prostate cancer. I hope and pray you are on the way to a complete recovery.


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## grahamg (Feb 20, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Just wanted to show you  what a real man looks like.
> This was my late husband.  A Federal Marshal, shot 11 men in his life and one night when I was in pain, he stayed up all night long and rocked me in his arms.  He had it all; the toughness and the tenderness.


All shot dead I'm assuming, so yes a very tough man, with a good deal to deal with in his job most couldn't contemplate or imagine, certainly those outside the USA(?)


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## Pecos (Feb 21, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Oh No!  I am SO SORRY to hear about your disease!  I KNOW many of us will pray for you!  From what you have told us of your lovely wife, I know she is taking the best of care of you!


I suppose that if a man has to get cancer, prostrate cancer is the way to go, as long as it gets caught early enough. Mine had not spread so I did not have to have chemo. Every day for nine weeks I went in for radiation treatment and the people having chemo turned to the right while those of us just getting radiation turned left. A quick glance into the chemo waiting room told me how rough it was for them. I had some pretty rough days, but nothing like those women with breast cancer.
At this point, I am nearing the end of the hormone treatment and will probably be out of the woods sometime this Summer. I still deal with fatigue and with hot flashes like a women. If fact, I am now an expert when it comes to hot flashes, and I once thought that women were exaggerating. Not now, it has been an eye opener.
With my own hormones being suppressed, I have been a "completely harmless male" for over two years. I am really looking forward to getting my "mojo" back and regaining some muscle along with other important things, ... as you can guess.
But I am on the mend and before too long, this little "adventure" will be in my rear view mirror.


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## Gaer (Feb 21, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I suppose that if a man has to get cancer, prostrate cancer is the way to go, as long as it gets caught early enough. Mine had not spread so I did not have to have chemo. Every day for nine weeks I went in for radiation treatment and the people having chemo turned to the right while those of us just getting radiation turned left. A quick glance into the chemo waiting room told me how rough it was for them. I had some pretty rough days, but nothing like those women with breast cancer.
> At this point, I am nearing the end of the hormone treatment and will probably be out of the woods sometime this Summer. I still deal with fatigue and with hot flashes like a women. If fact, I am now an expert when it comes to hot flashes, and I once thought that women were exaggerating. Not now, it has been an eye opener.
> With my own hormones being suppressed, I have been a "completely harmless male" for over two years. I am really looking forward to getting my "mojo" back and regaining some muscle along with other important things, ... as you can guess.
> But I am on the mend and before too long, this little "adventure" will be in my rear view mirror.


GOOD! GOOD! GOOD!  You WILL DO THIS!!!


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## Keesha (Feb 21, 2021)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I see a lot of posts from women, who wish for a John Wayne type to come riding in on a white horse, and care and protect them. And, of course, the men in their lives don't measure up. I don't know many two fisted, want to control everything  types.  Sounds more like potential wife beaters. I think some women look in men for something missing in their own lives. Sometimes, women find it. But if what you are looking for is so elusive then maybe it's a need that is impossible for  any real man to fulfill. John Wayne was a celluloid creation, while Marion Morrison was not.


This I find seriously amusing! John Wayne?
Personally I hated John Wayne movies and although my man has some John  Wayne characteristics, he had more characteristics that Pecos describes.

He’s there for me through thick & thin, for better or worse. He’s not shallow enough to be with  me for just my looks. We both understand they fade, distort and change over time throughout ‘our’ life together. My man is man enough for me and that’s all that matters.


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## Aunt Marg (Feb 21, 2021)

Keesha said:


> This I find seriously amusing! John Wayne?
> *Personally I hated John Wayne movies* and although my man has some John  Wayne characteristics, he had more characteristics that Pecos describes.
> 
> He’s there for me through thick & thin, for better or worse. He’s not shallow enough to be for me for just my looks. We both understand they fade, distort and change over time throughout ‘our’ life together. My man is man enough for me and that’s all that matters.


Add both me and my hubby to the list.


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## Phoenix (Feb 21, 2021)

For me two of the manliest characteristics are kindness and sensitivity.  The rest of it is not important.   @Pecos you are a dear soul.  If all men were as caring and loving as you are, the world would be a radically better place.  Thank you for your friendship.  I honor you.


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## grahamg (Feb 26, 2021)

This lady's husband is Dotun Adebayo, a BBC late night radio show host known as "The night watchman", who undoubtedly has brains and brawn, personality in spades too, plus a very giving nature, and a wonderful family, for this manly man:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363756661832355842
Dotuns wife drawing:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362061880387379201


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## OneEyedDiva (Mar 19, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I read this thread several times wondering if I could come up with an input. While not disputing anything that has already been presented, I will offer the following:
> 
> A manly man will get up every two hours at night for weeks to apply antibiotic salve and change the dressing on his wife's stitches following an intense eleven hour surgery on both eyes and part of her skull. He will comfort her and assure her that he loves her, always has loved her, and always will love her and any scarring she may have is simply unimportant. He will take vacation time so that he can continues taking care of her during the long days ahead. He will read to her. You can count on this kind of a guy, he is a man. All that macho stuff and how he dresses is mere trivia.


Exactly DF! He'll also help with the chores and I LOVE when a man cooks. Islam teaches that men should help their wives around the house and be engaged with the children. If he works long hours to support the family, that may be hard but it's recommended just the same.


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