# Security Guard Issue



## Camper6 (Oct 18, 2017)

I was shopping in a Supermarket that's open 24 hours at 2 a.m.  I do  this frequently.  Walk around the store looking for bargains and  clearouts.  I'm usually up at that time and if I am out of milk or other  items I go shopping.  The store is within walking distance.

I picked up two items.  A Pepsi which I was dying for and a can of soup on sale.

After I paid for the times I was approached by a security guard.

He said to me "What do you have under your jacket?"

I thought he was kidding.  So I said to him "Would you like to search me?".

He  said open your jacket.  Which I did and there was nothing there.  So I  said to him, this is bullshyte.  What is your name I am going to report  this.

His claim was the jacket looked bulky.

Then I let my temper get the best of me.  And I demanded to see the store manager.

She comes out and he starts given her a song and dance.  Without questioning me she decides to phone the police department.

Then  she tells me to leave the store.  I said sure as soon as you give me my  money back, I won't be shopping here any more and I am going to report  this incident.

They give me my money back and as I am leaving the store, this security guard says the police want to talk to  you.

I said I was told to leave the store which I am now going to do and the police can find me at my place of residence.

I  know I could have been charged with creating a disturbance but it  was  embarassing to me having to demonstrate to that security guard that I  wasn't shoplifting and that he didn't observe me taking anything or  having a witness see me taking anything.

This guy was overstepping his bounds as far as I was concerned and I wasn't going to let him get away with it.

I was waiting for the police to call me but so far have heard nothing.

He also refused to give me his name when I told him I was going to report the incident.


----------



## tnthomas (Oct 18, 2017)

"Nothing good ever happens at 2 a.m."      

Crooks own the night, so people out at that time are automatically under a heightened degree of scrutiny.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 18, 2017)

tnthomas said:


> "Nothing good ever happens at 2 a.m."
> 
> Crooks own the night, so people out at that time are automatically under a heightened degree of scrutiny.



If I had a gun I would have shot him and her.  See how that works?


----------



## terry123 (Oct 18, 2017)

Most people out that time of night are up to no good.  The security guard was just doing his job.  If I were the store owner I would applaud him.  You would not believe what people try to smuggle out in their clothes.  My daughter works at a 24 hour pharmacy and the stories she has to tell.  I would not dream of going out alone at that time of night by myself.  You are braver than me. If I were out I would not be offended if that happened to me.  Thieves come in all shapes and sizes!


----------



## AZ Jim (Oct 18, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> If I had a gun I would have shot him and her.  See how that works?


 Please don't ever carry a gun.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Oct 18, 2017)

I think that, where I live, submitting to a search by a security guard is covered under the 4th amendment and is strictly voluntary.

You may have opened the door for a search when you said _"Would you like to search me?".

_IMO it's best to remain calm and keep your answers to the SG's questions short and direct.

I agree with tnthomas you need to be careful when you're out running with the night, playing in the shadows_...
_


----------



## tnthomas (Oct 18, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> If I had a gun I would have shot him and her.  See how that works?



I sure do.   Appears that the security guard and store manager saw "how that works" too.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 18, 2017)

terry123 said:


> Most people out that time of night are up to no good.  The security guard was just doing his job.  If I were the store owner I would applaud him.  You would not believe what people try to smuggle out in their clothes.  My daughter works at a 24 hour pharmacy and the stories she has to tell.  I would not dream of going out alone at that time of night by myself.  You are braver than me. If I were out I would not be offended if that happened to me.  Thieves come in all shapes and sizes!



You are talking about Houston.

This is a small city in Canada. There's no problem being out after dark. But the way he handled it?

They lost a $300 a month customer. Applause alright. A kick in the rear end is more like it. 

By by the way. You can refuse a search. I complied because I thought the guy was kidding.

I could have said no and they would have held me and called the police.

In which case I could have sued them for unlawful detention.

A security officer doesn't have any more rights than an ordinary citizen. At least not in Canada.


----------



## RadishRose (Oct 18, 2017)

So that's worth murdering a guy, a mistake? You're a loose cannon.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 18, 2017)

RadishRose said:


> So that's worth murdering a guy, a mistake? You're a loose cannon.



Radish Rose. You missed the sarcasm. There is no open carry handguns in Canada except in exceptional circumstances .

Yep I am a loose cannon. I have a tongue . I don't take Shute from anyone .


----------



## tnthomas (Oct 18, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> You are talking about Houston.
> 
> This is a small city in Canada. There's no problem being out after dark. But the way he handled it?
> 
> ...



Too bad you didn't get the chance to sue them.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 18, 2017)

terry123 said:


> Most people out that time of night are up to no good.  The security guard was just doing his job.  If I were the store owner I would applaud him.  You would not believe what people try to smuggle out in their clothes.  My daughter works at a 24 hour pharmacy and the stories she has to tell.  I would not dream of going out alone at that time of night by myself.  You are braver than me. If I were out I would not be offended if that happened to me.  Thieves come in all shapes and sizes!



Thats what they have security cameras for.  You need proof of theft. A security guard at the checkout counter making arbitrary decisions? Give me a break.


----------



## CeeCee (Oct 18, 2017)

I would just do as I was told, why risk it?

Also, I never go out at night...I have all day.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 18, 2017)

I probably would have told him I have nothing under my jacket.  Then if he asked me to open it, I would have and when he saw nothing he would likely have apologized and that would have been the end of it.


----------



## Don M. (Oct 18, 2017)

Responding to a security guard, or policeman, with sarcasm and acting confrontational is a sure way to escalate the situation, and usually insures that the person doing so will wind up on the losing end.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 18, 2017)

CeeCee said:


> I would just do as I was told, why risk it?
> 
> Also, I never go out at night...I have all day.



Ah see but you have every right to do so if you wish to.

I did do as I was asked.

So if you have a large purse you are immediately a suspect?


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 18, 2017)

SeaBreeze said:


> I probably would have told him I have nothing under my jacket.  Then if he asked me to open it, I would have and when he saw nothing he would likely have apologized and that would have been the end of it.



Yes but that's not what happened. I asked for his name and he wouldn't give it. That's when I got upset.

I call it harassment.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 18, 2017)

Don M. said:


> Responding to a security guard, or policeman, with sarcasm and acting confrontational is a sure way to escalate the situation, and usually insures that the person doing so will wind up on the losing end.



Don I had conversations with this guy before.

I thought he was kidding.

So you wouldn't be embarrassed if a security officer asked you to show you weren't hiding anything in front of the other customers?

There has to be reasonable evidence of theft. A bulky jacket is not one of them.

Im quite surprised at the comments of my American members.

I posted this in 3 forums for comparison.

It's interesting.

What could they charge me with ?

What if I was a woman and pregnant or just plain fat?


----------



## Big Horn (Oct 18, 2017)

I've seen perhaps two off duty cops in my life who were acting as security guards.   One was in central Denver, the other not far from the Chicago Loop.  I've never been in any other grocery store with a cop or security guard.  My Walmart sure doesn't have them.

That's life in the big city.


----------



## Cap'nSacto (Oct 18, 2017)

I understand your anger. I wouldn't have liked being treated that way. Sure, the least messy thing to do is open your coat, but unless you were actually spotted tucking something in there, either by a camera or witness, the guy had no right to demand you do so. To involve the police was a bit over the top as well. I'd report the manager, too. A complaint addressed to the manager's manager, or corporate manager. 

Also, when you ask a store security guard for his or her name, they have to give it, along with a badge number if applicable. That's policy.


----------



## jujube (Oct 18, 2017)

The supermarket closest to my last home (where I would shop at night _only_ if there was a very good chance of my starving to death before morning....) had an off duty cop standing outside the door after dark.  The store policy was for women alone to stop at the front door, honk twice and park, and he would come out and walk you from your car to the front door.  When you left, you were escorted to your door and he would not leave until you pulled out.  There was always a lot of drug dealing going on in that parking lot.  I appreciated the extra security.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 18, 2017)

I'm quoting Canadian here.

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure. Privacy is "at the heart of liberty in a modern state". It is "essential for the well-being of the individual" and has a profound significance for ...[/COLOR]


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 18, 2017)

Here's another question. Would you have waited for the police to show up.?


----------



## nvtribefan (Oct 18, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Here's another question. Would you have waited for the police to show up.?



Yep.  And I wouldn't have opened my jacket, either.  But I would have taken cell phone video.
I don't shop at night, but I live in a 24-hour state, and many people do.


----------



## Cap'nSacto (Oct 18, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Here's another question. Would you have waited for the police to show up.?



No. I'd have pretty much said what you did; Here's my number. They can call me.

You won't be hearing from them. They have much more important things to do.


----------



## Butterfly (Oct 19, 2017)

SeaBreeze said:


> I probably would have told him I have nothing under my jacket.  Then if he asked me to open it, I would have and when he saw nothing he would likely have apologized and that would have been the end of it.



I agree.  That's what I would have done, too.  Why make a big deal out of it -- he's just doing his job.


----------



## Butterfly (Oct 19, 2017)

Don M. said:


> Responding to a security guard, or policeman, with sarcasm and acting confrontational is a sure way to escalate the situation, and usually insures that the person doing so will wind up on the losing end.



I agree strongly.


----------



## Butterfly (Oct 19, 2017)

The Wal-Marts here DO have security guards, as do most of the grocery stores; many of them are off-duty police officers.  I am glad to see them, particularly in parking lots at night.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 19, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> I agree.  That's what I would have done, too.  Why make a big deal out of it -- he's just doing his job.



So you would be comfortable with a security guard confronting you in front of customers and staff when you are innocent.? Especially if you have been a long time customer?

You are an American? You have Rights. That's what all the complaints are about.

He's not just doing his job. He's overstepping it by a long shot. 

I truly am am shocked at your response.

That's what happened in WWII. Don't make trouble?


----------



## Butterfly (Oct 19, 2017)

I think you way over reacted to a security guy just asking you to open your coat.  Does the store do this to everyone, or every third customer, or only in the middle of the night, or whatever?  You're in their store -- if you don't like their security measures, take it up with management or don't shop there or both.

Getting nasty with the guy at the door neither proves nor solves anything -- he is doing what he is told to do.  When I was working, it was my job to do what I was told in keeping clients (long time or new)at bay when the boss didn't want to be disturbed, and I took a lot of crap about it sometimes.  Nevertheless, I didn't have any option but to follow instructions if I wanted to keep my job.  Getting nasty with staff never gets you anywhere.  They care more about keeping their jobs than about whether you are happy about it or not.

Some stores here make you leave big coats, parcels and big bags at the door and not bring them into the store.  I wouldn't like it if I were accused of shoplifting, but all the security guy did was ask you to open your coat.  It's the way the world works nowdays.


----------



## jujube (Oct 19, 2017)

Our Walmart occasionally goes on a kick where they check everyone's receipts as they walk out the door.  Costco checks your receipts as you leave, supposedly "so that you weren't overcharged" (yeah, right, like they care).  Should I be offended that they're doing it to make sure I'm not shoplifting?  I don't like to have it done, but I accept it as just "one of those things".


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 19, 2017)

With Costco I understand it's part of your agreement.

But I wonder.  Do they catch many or is that just deterrent and intimidation tactics?

What does checking your receipts do if you don't check it against the items?

I don't understand why they simply don't install security cameras.

It s embarrassing. 

I am certain the policy will change when a few people get falsely accused and complain.

We have a Safeway with self checkout. That's where I will be shopping. 

Thanks for for the input.


----------



## Don M. (Oct 20, 2017)

Walmart has become a "Mecca" for shoplifters, and they lose millions of dollars per year to the thieves....so it is only understandable that they would be taking more measures to cut down on those losses.  People who shop there regularly should be supportive of these measures, which will help keep prices low.  I've been stopped a couple of times by the "door greeters", on my way out, and asked to show the receipt.  No Big Deal, and I quickly comply, and have No problems.  Here's some of the measures Walmart has had to take in recent years.....

http://time.com/4439650/walmart-shoplifting-crime/


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 20, 2017)

They will continue to lose millions on theft.

They don't spend enough money and time on inventory control.  It's always screwed up.  The prices are not on the shelf.  The tags are not updated in the computer.  The refunds are not updated. They can't tell whether it's a computer screwup or actual theft.  I was in Home Depot looking for a thermostat.  "We don't have any left".  Well then, what's that box up there with the same serial number of the item I am looking for?  Wait till I get a ladder.  15 minutes later the guy still hasn't shown up.

People are not stupid.  They aren't going to put stolen items in their shopping carts.

They are hidden on their body somewhere. That's not going to show up against your receipt.

I have been there.  I have done that.  Trust me.  The actual theft and what they are reporting isn't even close.


----------



## Trade (Oct 20, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> They will continue to lose millions on theft.
> 
> They don't spend enough money and time on inventory control.  It's always screwed up.  The prices are not on the shelf.  The tags are not updated in the computer.  The refunds are not updated. They can't tell whether it's a computer screwup or actual theft.  I was in Home Depot looking for a thermostat.  "We don't have any left".  Well then, what's that box up there with the same serial number of the item I am looking for?  Wait till I get a ladder.  15 minutes later the guy still hasn't shown up.
> 
> ...



I don't get it? How do people steal? They have those alarm things at the door if you walk past with something that hasn't been scanned.


----------



## jujube (Oct 20, 2017)

Trade said:


> I don't get it? How do people steal? They have those alarm things at the door if you walk past with something that hasn't been scanned.



I've several times heard the alarm go off at the Walmart "out" door and not yet have I seen anybody come running.  I honestly think you can steal at my Walmart with complete nonchalance.  However, the cops are there a lot, so somebody must be getting caught.


----------



## RadishRose (Oct 20, 2017)

I read about a year ago that a Walmart somewhere down south got into some squabble with the local police for calling the police dept. an inordinate amount of times for thefts and/or suspicion of theft. 

It was suspected that the Walmart in question did have a high volume of crime, but instead of hiring appropriate security to deal with it, they opted instead to use taxpayer monies to rely mostly on calling the town police.


----------



## 911 (Oct 20, 2017)

First---The security guard was out of line.
Second----If the police want to talk to you, they should approach you and not have the security guy relay the message. Suppose the security guy leads you out the door in privacy, who knows what his intentions are?
Third---Because the police didn't contact you, I question the security guard's integrity.
Fourth---Normally, I wouldn't say this, but you did the right thing getting out of there, but had the police approached you and identified themself, you would have been best off answering their questions? 

Just saying!


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 20, 2017)

911 said:


> First---The security guard was out of line.
> Second----If the police want to talk to you, they should approach you and not have the security guy relay the message. Suppose the security guy leads you out the door in privacy, who knows what his intentions are?
> Third---Because the police didn't contact you, I question the security guard's integrity.
> Fourth---Normally, I wouldn't say this, but you did the right thing getting out of there, but had the police approached you and identified themself, you would have been best off answering their questions?
> ...



Thanks. I won the battle but lost the war. But it was a great discussion with many viewpoints.


----------



## jujube (Oct 20, 2017)

RadishRose said:


> I read about a year ago that a Walmart somewhere down south got into some squabble with the local police for calling the police dept. an inordinate amount of times for thefts and/or suspicion of theft.
> 
> It was suspected that the Walmart in question did have a high volume of crime, but instead of hiring appropriate security to deal with it,* they opted instead to use taxpayer monies to rely mostly on calling the town police*.



And thus, at least two smaller towns in Florida have informed Walmart that they will be henceforth charging them for police calls, because too much of their manpower is being utilized by Walmart calls.


----------



## Big Horn (Oct 20, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> Thanks. I won the battle but lost the war. But it was a great discussion with many viewpoints.


You might get a different reception if you called their corporate office.  I know that I'd make the call bright and early Monday morning.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 21, 2017)

It's preordained.  They will apologize and offer some condolence factor like a coupon or something because to lose a customer or get a bad name is a sacrilege.

However.  I'll give it a shot.


----------



## RadishRose (Oct 21, 2017)

jujube said:


> And thus, at least two smaller towns in Florida have informed Walmart that they will be henceforth charging them for police calls, because too much of their manpower is being utilized by Walmart calls.



Good decision.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 21, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> I think you way over reacted to a security guy just asking you to open your coat.  Does the store do this to everyone, or every third customer, or only in the middle of the night, or whatever?  You're in their store -- if you don't like their security measures, take it up with management or don't shop there or both.
> 
> Getting nasty with the guy at the door neither proves nor solves anything -- he is doing what he is told to do.  When I was working, it was my job to do what I was told in keeping clients (long time or new)at bay when the boss didn't want to be disturbed, and I took a lot of crap about it sometimes.  Nevertheless, I didn't have any option but to follow instructions if I wanted to keep my job.  Getting nasty with staff never gets you anywhere.  They care more about keeping their jobs than about whether you are happy about it or not.
> 
> Some stores here make you leave big coats, parcels and big bags at the door and not bring them into the store.  I wouldn't like it if I were accused of shoplifting, but all the security guy did was ask you to open your coat.  It's the way the world works nowdays.



No that's not how the world woks nowadays.  Maybe in your world, but not in mine.

Let's put it this way.  You are a different breed of cat than I am.  You would let someone step on your tail.  I won't.

If that store has a problem with theft it's not my problem.  It's their problem.

What you call overreacting I call standing up for myself from false accusation.


----------



## 911 (Oct 22, 2017)

Many stores, banks and other commercial establishments, as well as workplaces have upped the ante to relying on cameras to do their investigation work.

On more than one occasion, I have been called to stores dealing in soft goods. On one occasion, the store owner asked me to follow him to his office. Once there, he showed me a replay of one of his employees stealing lottery tickets and dollar bills from the register.

He was taken into custody and charged appropriately. Bail was set by a District Judge, which he was able to secure through a bondsman and he was released. I am not sure of the outcome because there was no trial. I know this because I was not called as a witness. Evidently, he pleaded guilty and was probably fined. In some other cases, I have been called to testify. 

I remember another instance of being called to a manufacturing plant and showed a replay of an employee stealing gloves and tools. You just never know who or what is watching you.


----------



## applecruncher (Oct 22, 2017)

> You just never know who or what is watching you



Ain't that the truth. Better to assume you're being watched in stores.

Long time ago I heard of a situation where a teen was caught stealing food - couple packs of lunchmeat and a bag of candy from a grocery store.  Manager found out the father had abandoned the family, they had no food, and were on verge of being put out of their apartment.  Mgr called the police, but long story short gave the kid a job as carry out boy/bagger.  Most stories don't end that well.


----------



## Matrix (Oct 22, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> No that's not how the world woks nowadays.


Not my world either, I've never heard of anything like that. I will make a big deal out of it, the security guard would think twice next time he wants to harass another customer.

With security cameras watching every corner in today's world, you want to search me because you think my jacket is bulky? That's ridiculous.


----------



## Knight (Oct 23, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> If I had a gun I would have shot him and her.  See how that works?



And then there is a mystery about how senseless murders happen.


----------



## Camper6 (Oct 24, 2017)

Knight said:


> And then there is a mystery about how senseless murders happen.



Knight. I was being sarcastic . We don't have handgun rules in Canada like those in the U.S. We also have possession licenses even for hunting rifles. Automatics and semi automatics are a no no.

But you are right. That's how it happens in the U.S. where all kind of guns are readily available and mass murders take place with frequency .


----------



## fuzzybuddy (Oct 24, 2017)

Camper6, were you inside the store or outside?
In my State(Pa), if you are outside the store, you can be detained until the Police arrive. But nobody can search you, without your consent.
BTW. I would have done exactly what you did. And when the cops came, I would have wanted that SOB  of S.G. charged with something.


----------

