# Twilight zone of income for senior housing



## debodun (Feb 3, 2017)

I spent some time last year looking for senior accommodations. Around here there are two types - one is for the low income people (less than $40K a year) and the other is like renting a room in a resort ($4 - $6K a month and some didn't include meals, housekeeping, utilities, and other amenities). Looks like I fell through a big crack again and I'm stuck in my old brick pile for now. Why can't there be "medium income" senior housing?


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 3, 2017)

I looked at senior housing and found the same thing to be true in my area.  I am not looking for subsidized housing but I would like to find a market priced senior complex that has some of the features offered to low income seniors.  Things like a weekly grocery bus, a nutrition site and just the social aspects of being around people my own age.  I don't mind paying a fair price for these services it would be worth it to me.


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## Manatee (Feb 3, 2017)

My experience is that the newer 55+ communities tend to be more expensive as the builders figure out that they make more on higher priced property.

The grim reaper creates vacancies in existing communities, but they are not advertised like the new fancy ones.  We have the amenities that Aunt Bea mentions in our 1974 vintage condo that we bought 2 years ago.

I have no knowledge of subsidized housing.


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## debodun (Feb 4, 2017)

I probably *could* afford the more expensive housing, but I'd be paying out nearly _*all *_or most my monthly income for housing. I'd be living "on the edge". Sometimes I lose money if my investment income falters. I'd still like to still be in the black at the end of the month. I looked at my budget for last year and between income and expenses, I cleared an average of just under $3400 a month (that's considering income and expenditures). Of course, they only consider income which between my pension, SSI and investments was around $62K which means I had around $21K as expenditures on food, taxes, home maintenance and other sundries.


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## Kitties (Feb 4, 2017)

I think you are correct. Low income apartments are for low income seniors. I also think the other places are the "assisted living" type places. I can only imagine the money maker those place are for whoever owns them. Staffing is marginal. Even people requiring help with medications are assisted by "med techs" An LVN I worked with stated when she was a med tech she didn't even know what she was giving. Just followed the instructions.

What about just a regular apartment in a regular complex. My complex is quiet. Variety of ages. Horrid manager though. And that in the end can be a problem.


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## debodun (Feb 5, 2017)

After living 54 years in a home my patents owned or for the last 10 years by myself in a huge home, I just wonder if I'd be comfortable living in a sardine can (i.e. apartment housing).


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## OneEyedDiva (Feb 19, 2017)

Debodun: I'm actually surprised the the low incomes went as high as "less than 40K a year".  It kills me how so many senior communities charge such high prices to live in them. Don't they realize that many of us live on fixed incomes and would like for our expenses to go down, not up?! What a big blessing it has turned out to be that at 23 I took my mothers advice and I got an apartment in the new complex she and my father had moved to when. I didn't even realize that my initial payment (which I thought was a security deposit) was buying me a share in this cooperative housing. Our housing costs (mortgage paid off(, now akin to HOA fees are much lower than comparable housing. 

I didn't quite follow how much you actually net after your housing costs and other bills are paid. But the rule of thumb (sort of) is that a person shouldn't pay more than 33% of their total income for housing. These days, that can be unrealistic. It's too bad if you happen to make only a little more than the income cap for senior housing. I have an online friend who is really cash strapped and she just missed qualifying for aid for housing.


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## debodun (Feb 19, 2017)

In the locale where I live, you have to be destitute to get any kind of "help" with public assistance. I even looked into HEAP (Home Energy Assistance Program) that is supposed to help seniors and other low-income people with their heating fuel costs. I was informed that you can't earn over $500 a month to qualify for assistance!


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 19, 2017)

debodun said:


> In the locale where I live, you have to be destitute to get any kind of "help" with public assistance. I even looked into HEAP (Home Energy Assistance Program) that is supposed to help seniors and other low-income people with their heating fuel costs. I was informed that you can't earn over $500 a month to qualify for assistance!



The gross income limit for a single person to qualify for HEAP in New York State is $2300.00/month.

http://otda.ny.gov/programs/heap/#income-limits 

IMO you should be thankful that your income is high enough that you don't need to rely on the taxpayers for assistance.


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## Lon (Feb 19, 2017)

I live in Senior Housing   I have listed our web site which will show the rental costs.  I would like to know how it compares with your area. The residents  are not low income.

http://www.westwoodbluffs.com/fresno/westwood-bluffs/photos/


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## debodun (Feb 19, 2017)

For some reason, the senior living communities around here do not post their rental rates on their web sites.


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## Aunt Bea (Feb 19, 2017)

Lon said:


> I live in Senior Housing   I have listed our web site which will show the rental costs.  I would like to know how it compares with your area. The residents  are not low income.
> 
> http://www.westwoodbluffs.com/fresno/westwood-bluffs/photos/



This one is a good example in central New York state.

http://www.snowbirdslanding.com/


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## steelcitiesgray (Feb 19, 2017)

Debodun, What kind of senior housing are/were you looking out, single home community, apartment, condo? I remember from another post that you have a large home that needs work. Wouldn't selling the house and using the proceeds to pay for a senior apartment/condo work? I would think a newer place would be cheaper for utilities, taxes, maintenance. I know it's different for everyone but I never understand hanging on to a home that has expensive maintenance. My aunt is doing this right now and the house is falling down around her ears. She doesn't want to move because she claims there would be no place for her "collections". Her collections are salt and pepper shakers, old books, cookie jars, porcelain dolls which she thinks one of us will love to have. None of us want any of this and we have told her. She thinks it has great value. It doesn't. All of it is cracked, broken or dirty or she thought she could repair pieces that she's broken over the years. She sort of listens to me and I suggested she pick out a few of the things she liked best and I would make up a memory album of pictures of the rest. She could sell/get rid of the rest and move into a home that is cleaner/easier. She won't, and it's sad. She's such a sweet person and she's living out her last days in a house that's slowly deteriorating. Don't mean to go on but got a rant call from a cousin that tried to get our aunt to replace her living room carpet. It's dirty and threadbare in spots. Cousin was willing to pay for new rug but aunt said they don't make rugs like hers any more and that hers is still good.


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## debodun (Feb 19, 2017)

steelcitiesgray said:


> Debodun, What kind of senior housing are/were you looking out, single home community, apartment, condo?



There are so many factors to consider, I am confused. Some communities provide transportation, meals, housekeeping services, pools, exercise rooms and other amenities. Others I looked at were just "bare bones" rentals with no amenities. In some, utilities are included, but in  most, each unit has it's own electric meter and renters are responsible for their own cable TV, phone (if you have a land line) and Internet service. Most that have two bedrooms also have two baths and I want a 2 bedroom, one bath unit. A few places have covered garage parking (at a goodly extra amount a month), some don't allow pets and if they do it an extra charge. One place actually had "cottages" which were like small detached homes apart from the building where the apartments are. Of course these run $5000 to $7000 a month depending on size. And these are just some thing I could think of in a few moments.



steelcitiesgray said:


> My aunt is doing this right now and the house is falling down around her  ears. She doesn't want to move because she claims there would be no  place for her "collections". Her collections are salt and pepper  shakers, old books, cookie jars, porcelain dolls which she thinks one of  us will love to have.



Maybe your aunt and I are related? LOL


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## steelcitiesgray (Feb 19, 2017)

Debodon, So you are definitely looking at a 55+ community and not just buying a condo or apartment out in the "real" world. Make a list of the amenities you want or need later in life. Do you need an exercise room, transportation, garage, have pets? Do you need 2 bedrooms because of visiting guests or would you use it for storage? Don't get 2 bedrooms if you don't need to bedrooms and if you need 2 bedrooms you need 2 bathrooms. I don't like to share...lol. Are you staying in your particular location for some reason or can/would you relocate to a different area? I'm not talking about a different state unless you have relatives there. There are many things to consider if you are serious. Make sure you talk to people in your area for input.
I hope you and my aunt aren't related, for some reason she is going to stay in her home, at least you are looking.  She can't see the problems with the house. OMG, she pays 5 or 6 thousand for heat each winter, that's nuts!


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## nvtribefan (Feb 19, 2017)

debodun said:


> I probably *could* afford the more expensive housing, but I'd be paying out nearly _*all *_or most my monthly income for housing. I'd be living "on the edge". Sometimes I lose money if my investment income falters. I'd still like to still be in the black at the end of the month. I looked at my budget for last year and between income and expenses, I cleared an average of just under $3400 a month (that's considering income and expenditures). Of course, they only consider income which between my pension, SSI and investments was around $62K which means I had around $21K as expenditures on food, taxes, home maintenance and other sundries.



You have over 5K/month income and you are looking for subsidies?  Why are you trying to increase your net worth by over 3K per month?


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## debodun (Feb 23, 2017)

This article hits my nail on the head !

http://seniorhousingnews.com/2016/02/11/tips-to-crack-the-code-of-middle-income-senior-housing/


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## Deucemoi (Feb 23, 2017)

With my SS I dont make enough to even pitch a tent in the subsidized housing back yard. I guess I will rent this dump until the end.


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## Lethe200 (Feb 25, 2017)

Kitties said:


> .....Even people requiring help with medications are assisted by "med techs" An LVN I worked with stated when she was a med tech she didn't even know what she was giving. Just followed the instructions.



Firstly, it's required by law to have a medical technician or higher if handling prescriptive medication. And she would not have known "what she was giving", that's not her job. Their job is to re-order the refills, receive the medications, and dispense daily, or whatever frequency is required. Those medications are to be kept under lock and key, and clearly identified as to WHO gets WHAT. 

 Diagnosis and prescription is ONLY handled by M.D.'s. A medtech handing out prescriptives will be doing so for dozens, if not several hundred, different patients. Mistakes can, of course, have deadly consequences, so every effort is made to ensure each prescription is given to the correct person.

If you live in a senior facility, you are expected to have your own doctor. Sometimes a doctor will work with a facility on a recurring basis, but of the nine facilities we researched before selecting one for my MIL, only one facility did so. Almost all are staffed with R.N.s and L.V.N.s.


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## Butterfly (Feb 25, 2017)

My primary care provider is a PA, not an MD, and she diagnoses, orders tests, etc., and writes prescriptions.  I don't see an MD at all, just the PA.


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## Sunny (Feb 28, 2017)

Here's the web site for the senior community I live in. If you look at the homes, you'll see a tremendous variety of prices. This is a condo community, but there are always plenty of rentals if you don't want to buy.

*http://tinyurl.com/z29bfck*


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## Kitties (Mar 1, 2017)

Lethe200 said:


> Firstly, it's required by law to have a medical technician or higher if handling prescriptive medication. And she would not have known "what she was giving", that's not her job. Their job is to re-order the refills, receive the medications, and dispense daily, or whatever frequency is required. Those medications are to be kept under lock and key, and clearly identified as to WHO gets WHAT.
> 
> Diagnosis and prescription is ONLY handled by M.D.'s. A medtech handing out prescriptives will be doing so for dozens, if not several hundred, different patients. Mistakes can, of course, have deadly consequences, so every effort is made to ensure each prescription is given to the correct person.
> 
> If you live in a senior facility, you are expected to have your own doctor. Sometimes a doctor will work with a facility on a recurring basis, but of the nine facilities we researched before selecting one for my MIL, only one facility did so. Almost all are staffed with R.N.s and L.V.N.s.


I know more about these places than you do. But thanks for the lecture.


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## Ray (Mar 2, 2017)

Deucemoi said:


> With my SS I dont make enough to even pitch a tent in the subsidized housing back yard. I guess I will rent this dump until the end.



But, are you happy in "that dump"? And when you think about it, that is what is important.


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## Lethe200 (Mar 3, 2017)

Kitties said:


> I know more about these places than you do. But thanks for the lecture.



I apologize, Kitties, did not mean to "lecture". But you made it sound as if there was something wrong with Asst. Living facilities to use an LVN to dispense medications.

I think many people are not aware that most facilities do not have MDs or RNs on staff. Facilities that advertise 24/7 medical staff are almost always using LVNs. It's only skilled nursing and Memory Care units that have MD and RN staffers; even then LVNs make up the majority of internal staff.

One reason we selected a specific facility for my MIL was that it was the only facility in our city that MIL's geriatrician consulted at, on a weekly basis. It gave her the comfort that if she didn't feel up to going out to see him (we always drove her), she could see him on her own, during his regular visits.


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## Ray (Mar 3, 2017)

debodun said:


> For some reason, the senior living communities around here do not post their rental rates on their web sites.


Same here. But they would love to "pitch" you. So, contact them and you'll probably get a free meal with the tour.


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