# Need a dental plan.....



## Colleen (Sep 24, 2019)

I would appreciate any suggestions about dental plans that you have or have had experience with.


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## applecruncher (Sep 24, 2019)

Dental plans are not that good.  Suggest you look into a college dental school -excellent work and prices are about half what a private dentist charges.


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## Colleen (Sep 24, 2019)

applecruncher said:


> Dental plans are not that good.  Suggest you look into a college dental school -excellent work and prices are about half what a private dentist charges.




There are no college dental schools any where near here so a "real" dentist is the only option. Besides, I went to a "teaching" dentist several years ago when we lived in another state and he was terribly rough. I never went back. We live close to MX and a LOT of seniors go down there for dental work because it's cheap but that's not an option for me, either


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## applecruncher (Sep 24, 2019)

Hmm.
Well, good luck.


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2019)

I had bad teeth since birth.  I've had a full dental reconstruction (all crowns) & 28 root canals.  I've learned quite a bit about dentistry.
When I worked for an aerospace firm 37 years ago, I was relieved to have full medical & dental coverage.  But I didn't know how bad it was.  A large filling would come out every few months & the dentist would just replace them with a larger filling.  I asked him why they keep coming out. He'd say, "Sometimes that happens."  I didn't know much about medical insurance at the time, so I trusted him.  After I left that job & my dental coverage stopped, I saw a private dentist & she spent 2 hours with me, explaining how dental insurance works & why it's such a bad idea for someone who needs anything other than simple cleanings.

With a dental plan, your provider has the option of the cheapest treatment available - and they will naturally go that route to increase profits.  I got fillings instead of crowns because crowns are more expensive, even though my new dentist said NONE of my teeth should have been filled because a filling only stays in when the decay is small.  That led to frequent infection, which led to every tooth needing a root canal.

If you only need cleaning, any dentist will do.  But if you need more-serious work like crowns, I'd stay away from dental plans.


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## applecruncher (Sep 24, 2019)

Anyone who only needs 'simple cleanings' can pay for it out of their pocket a lot cheaper that premiums for dental plans cost.  Anyone who needs major dental work will quickly find that dental insurance will only pay a small fraction then the annual benefit will max out.


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## Don M. (Sep 24, 2019)

Dental Insurance, IMO, is a waste of money.  I've had it for years, with 3 different companies, and it seems like they seldom pay out more than half the premiums.  I'm in the process of getting a partial, and should know within a few weeks just how much the insurance will cover.  If it goes as expected, I will probably wind up paying well over half the cost.  If that is the case, I plan to drop them (Renaissance Dental), and just use the dental benefits in my Medicare Advantage plan....Humana covers the cleanings, and minor repairs.  Over the years, it seems like I fork out over $400/yr. for dental insurance, and get $250 in benefits...if I'm lucky.


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## applecruncher (Sep 24, 2019)

@Don M. 

So true.


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## Colleen (Sep 24, 2019)

win231 said:


> I had bad teeth since birth.  I've had a full dental reconstruction (all crowns) & 28 root canals.  I've learned quite a bit about dentistry.
> When I worked for an aerospace firm 37 years ago, I was relieved to have full medical & dental coverage.  But I didn't know how bad it was.  A large filling would come out every few months & the dentist would just replace them with a larger filling.  I asked him why they keep coming out. He'd say, "Sometimes that happens."  I didn't know much about medical insurance at the time, so I trusted him.  After I left that job & my dental coverage stopped, I saw a private dentist & she spent 2 hours with me, explaining how dental insurance works & why it's such a bad idea for someone who needs anything other than simple cleanings.
> 
> With a dental plan, your provider has the option of the cheapest treatment available - and they will naturally go that route to increase profits.  I got fillings instead of crowns because crowns are more expensive, even though my new dentist said NONE of my teeth should have been filled because a filling only stays in when the decay is small.  That led to frequent infection, which led to every tooth needing a root canal.
> ...




Thanks for the info! I had NO idea. Maybe I'll just take that money I was going to spend on a monthly plan and just put it away for when I need it 

I've always had good teeth and only had a couple fillings over the years and, since I'm a big coward (because I've had some really bad experiences!) about dentists, I haven't gone much to a dentist for regular "maintenance". But a few months ago I had an infected gum and found out I need 2 teeth pulled!! I've been putting it off but I can tell it's got to be done.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 24, 2019)

Mine is Ameritas 800 487 5553  or  877 667 6127 toll free
 Why not talk to your dentist or any dentist and ask them what they would recommend?


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## fmdog44 (Sep 24, 2019)

Colleen said:


> Thanks for the info! I had NO idea. Maybe I'll just take that money I was going to spend on a monthly plan and just put it away for when I need it
> 
> I've always had good teeth and only had a couple fillings over the years and, since I'm a big coward (because I've had some really bad experiences!) about dentists, I haven't gone much to a dentist for regular "maintenance". But a few months ago I had an infected gum and found out I need 2 teeth pulled!! I've been putting it off but I can tell it's got to be done.


An infected gum needs immediate attention


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## GreenSky (Sep 24, 2019)

Here's the issue with dental.  If it's an HMO you will almost be guaranteed to get bad dentistry and likely be talked into treatment not covered.  PPO plans are more expensive and can have 12-18 month wait for other than minor treatment.  Furthermore the maximum benefit is rarely more than $1,500.  So after paying $40-50 for 18 months you can "hope" you need a root canal covered at 50%.

I prefer a discount plan for about $110 a year.  You will save about 1/3 off retail (pretty much what Delta Dental authorizes), no waiting periods and no maximum benefit.  The is what my wife and I have.

While this is available all over you can go to www.californiadiscountdental.com and search for your dentist in all 50 states. I do get a _very _small commission so I apologize in advance for self-promotion.  If too many object I'll remove the post and let the original poster pay through the nose for insurance.

Rick


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## Keesha (Sep 24, 2019)

Colleen said:


> Thanks for the info! I had NO idea. Maybe I'll just take that money I was going to spend on a monthly plan and just put it away for when I need it
> 
> I've always had good teeth and only had a couple fillings over the years and, since I'm a big coward (because I've had some really bad experiences!) about dentists, I haven't gone much to a dentist for regular "maintenance". But a few months ago I had an infected gum and found out I need 2 teeth pulled!! I've been putting it off but I can tell it's got to be done.



Nobody actually likes going to the dentist. We all detest it but it’s a necessity. If your gums are infected and two teeth need pulling, thats something that shouldn’t be put off or it will get worse. 

You can do this Colleen. 
Put your big girl pants on and walk into that office and get what you need done. You’ll feel better for it. 
It’s taking care of yourself which is most important.


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## Keesha (Sep 24, 2019)

win231 said:


> I had bad teeth since birth.  I've had a full dental reconstruction (all crowns) & 28 root canals.  I've learned quite a bit about dentistry.
> When I worked for an aerospace firm 37 years ago, I was relieved to have full medical & dental coverage.  But I didn't know how bad it was.  A large filling would come out every few months & the dentist would just replace them with a larger filling.  I asked him why they keep coming out. He'd say, "Sometimes that happens."  I didn't know much about medical insurance at the time, so I trusted him.  After I left that job & my dental coverage stopped, I saw a private dentist & she spent 2 hours with me, explaining how dental insurance works & why it's such a bad idea for someone who needs anything other than simple cleanings.
> 
> With a dental plan, your provider has the option of the cheapest treatment available - and they will naturally go that route to increase profits.  I got fillings instead of crowns because crowns are more expensive, even though my new dentist said NONE of my teeth should have been filled because a filling only stays in when the decay is small.  That led to frequent infection, which led to every tooth needing a root canal.
> ...



28 root canals?
Ouch! Are they as painful as people say?


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2019)

Keesha said:


> 28 root canals?
> Ouch! Are they as painful as people say?


Not if they're done right.  There should be a little pain after, but nothing that can't be dealt with by taking aspirin or Tylenol or maybe Tylenol/Codeine.  I only had one dentist do a bad root canal - he didn't go down far enough into the root & he left infection before sealing the tooth.  That traps the remaining infection which has no place to go when it spreads & my face swelled up, then I got Sepsis which is frequently fatal, plus diabetic ketoacidosis which can also be fatal.  After my 8 days in the ER & ICU, I made sure he paid dearly.


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## debodun (Oct 6, 2019)

When I retired, I lost my dental insurance. I found the premiums on a dental plans cost more than just paying OOP. Alos consider not all dentists accept all insurance policies. However, if you need extensive or expensive dental car or procedures, this might change things. So far I've been lucky where teeth are concerned.


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## win231 (Oct 6, 2019)

debodun said:


> When I retired, I lost my dental insurance. I found the premiums on a dental plans cost more than just paying OOP. Alos consider not all dentists accept all insurance policies. However, if you need extensive or expensive dental car or procedures, this might change things. So far I've been lucky where teeth are concerned.


Important:  A dental plan is even worse if you need extensive or expensive procedures.  That's exactly where your insurer will cut costs - and put your health at risk.


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## GreenSky (Oct 6, 2019)

win231 said:


> Important:  A dental plan is even worse if you need extensive or expensive procedures.  That's exactly where your insurer will cut costs - and put your health at risk.


Not sure I completely agree, but generally dental insurance is a terrible buy.  Waiting 18 months, paying $50 each month, and then 50% coverage for major work is absurd.  Especially when most plans have a limit of $1,000 - $1,500.

I can't remember the last time any of my clients bought dental insurance.  A discount plan like the one I posted earlier is a much better value.

Rick


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## Victor (Oct 6, 2019)

Colleen said:


> I would appreciate any suggestions about dental plans that you have or have had experience with.




 Try a discount plan called DentalPlans that uses Carrington. I have been using it for a long time and it is
indispensable for me. Pay a annual fee under $200. That's all. However, only some dentists accept it in U.S
and you must search for them. Crowns are about half off.


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## win231 (Oct 6, 2019)

GreenSky said:


> Not sure I completely agree, but generally dental insurance is a terrible buy.  Waiting 18 months, paying $50 each month, and then 50% coverage for major work is absurd.  Especially when most plans have a limit of $1,000 - $1,500.
> 
> I can't remember the last time any of my clients bought dental insurance.  A discount plan like the one I posted earlier is a much better value.
> 
> Rick


WHAT???  An 18-month wait?  When you have a dental infection that needs immediate treatment?  I waited 6 days before I went to the ER (because the dentist told me the pain was normal) & I could have died of sepsis by then.
On the other hand, if the patient dies, the insurer saves treatment costs.......


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## Olivia (Oct 6, 2019)

I always had a dental plan throughout my working life.  And even then there was around a 1-year waiting period when first getting it. If not, then someone would only buy dental insurance when they started having dental problems. Yes, the usual yearly coverage limit is $1000 with my dental insurance provider, but that $1000 goes farther then one would think and the dentist gives you more because you do have the coverage. I don't let my coverage lapse and possibly would have to wait a year. But that's just me. But no one on some forum is going to change what I know has been good for me.


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## GreenSky (Oct 6, 2019)

win231 said:


> WHAT???  An 18-month wait?  When you have a dental infection that needs immediate treatment?  I waited 6 days before I went to the ER (because the dentist told me the pain was normal) & I could have died of sepsis by then.
> On the other hand, if the patient dies, the insurer saves treatment costs.......


Not everything has an 18 month wait.  And the company would save all costs if they stopped providing any coverage.  

Seriously, it's not a conspiracy of you vs the company.  I'm sorry you had a bad experience but blame the dentist you chose not the insurance company.  They provide dollars not professional services.

Rick


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## GeorgiaXplant (Oct 6, 2019)

I have Medicare Senior Advantage with Kaiser-Permanente, which is free, BUT I pay $15/month for the portion of Senior Advantage Plus that covers vision, dental, hearing. I signed up after the dentist I'd been seeing for the past 10 years told me I had to have all my teeth pulled and full dentures...approximate cost? Her portion $2700, oral surgeon's portion? Approximately $5,000. Kaiser's contract for dental is with Delta Dental, and Delta sent me to Great Expressions. Three fillings, two extractions and a lower partial later, I've spent $1100. 

I'd had dental insurance years ago and it paid next to nothing and then only if your teeth were knocked out by a bale of purple nickels falling from the sky on an even-numbered day of an odd-numbered month during a leap year. At $25/month, I dropped it real quick and figured all dental plans were expensive and useless. I only started investigating again after the $7700 estimate from my old dentist. 

So...check out a plan offered with your Medicare supplement. You might be as pleasantly surprised as I was.


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## GreenSky (Oct 6, 2019)

GeorgiaXplant said:


> So...check out a plan offered with your Medicare supplement. You might be as pleasantly surprised as I was.



As you pointed out, Kaiser is an advantage plan.  I know of no supplements that offer actual dental.  Some offer a discount on vision and hearing.

Rick


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## Butterfly (Oct 7, 2019)

I've never had a dental plan that was worth the paper it was written on.  A friend of mine did have a dental plan that she thought was great, but I checked into it and the dentist she went to under the plan charged her more for her portion than my dentist did for me paying the whole bills myself.  I've got pretty good teeth, and the only thing I have done is the deep cleaning (which requires local anesthesia and has to be done in two different visits because they can't give anesthesia in your whole mouth at once or you can't swallow) and the fancy dentist on her plan charges over FOUR TIMES what my dentist does to do it.

I've been going to the same neighborhood practice forever and my present dentist is the son of the dentist I went to as a kiddo.  When we were overseas, I'd even schedule my regular checkups, etc., for when we were home on leave.  If this guy dies before I do, I'll go to his daughter, who is also a dentist.


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## Judycat (Oct 29, 2019)

Read an article yesterday that said there's a bill up in congress that would add vision and dental to original Medicare. Wouldn't that be wonderful?


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## GreenSky (Oct 29, 2019)

Judycat said:


> Read an article yesterday that said there's a bill up in congress that would add vision and dental to original Medicare. Wouldn't that be wonderful?


Who would pay for this?  Medicare is already bleeding money and spending more than is taken in.

Rick


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## StarSong (Oct 29, 2019)

GreenSky said:


> Who would pay for this?  Medicare is already bleeding money and spending more than is taken in.
> 
> Rick


Exactly.


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## Judycat (Oct 29, 2019)

Taxpayers would pay for it. Apparently there is plenty of taxpayer money to blow, so why not a little for people on Medicare. Where would you rather see tax money go? To wealthy politicians jetting to resorts around the world or to you and your relatives on Medicare?


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## GreenSky (Oct 29, 2019)

Judycat said:


> Taxpayers would pay for it. Apparently there is plenty of taxpayer money to blow, so why not a little for people on Medicare. Where would you rather see tax money go? To wealthy politicians jetting to resorts around the world or to you and your relatives on Medicare?


No, I'd rather it stay in OUR pockets.

You can say the same thing about every dollar of taxpayer money spent by the government. It needs to stop. There is no constitutional basis for much of what is spent, including requiring us to pay for and use social security and medicare.

As one of the taxpayers, I object to the constant increase in what we spend. The deficit under Trump has gone up even faster than Obama. It needs to stop somewhere. Taxation is theft. Inflating the money supply causes inflation which is theft.

Rick


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## applecruncher (Oct 29, 2019)

Colleen said:


> There are no college dental schools any where near here so a "real" dentist is the only option. Besides, I went to a "teaching" dentist several years ago when we lived in another state and he was terribly rough. I never went back. We live close to MX and a LOT of seniors go down there for dental work because it's cheap but that's not an option for me, either




Are you serious?



Regarding your phrase "real dentists", WHERE do you think those dentists got their training and degrees?

As far as Mexico, I haven't been there for dentistry but I know several people who have gone there for implants and they are extremely pleased.


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 29, 2019)

I noticed that this year my Medicare supplement plan is offering dental insurance for an additional $29.00/month with a $1,000.00 annual benefit cap.  When I read the fine print it sounds like they have negotiated lower rates with dentists who accept the plan as a way to generate additional business as opposed to a traditional insurance plan.

IMO it would be better for most people to self insure by setting aside the premiums in a savings account.  Also keeping a credit card clear to make the initial payment to the dentist if sufficient money has not been put aside for the work required and paying the balance off monthly.  Finally, I would encourage anyone to negotiate with a dentist when extensive work is involved.  The dentist may offer an alternative treatment or a discount of some kind.


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## Ken N Tx (Oct 30, 2019)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO it would be better for most people to self insure by setting aside the premiums in a savings account.


Ditto.....


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## JB in SC (Oct 30, 2019)

Shop around, there are excellent dentists that don’t overcharge...plus give discounts. I started seeing a new one after my long time dentist retired. This guy is phenomenal, he has an in house CNC. It takes about an hour and is $300 cheaper for an all ceramic crown that is precision fitted. I just wish I had changed years ago.


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## oldmontana (Oct 30, 2019)

GreenSky said:


> As you pointed out, Kaiser is an advantage plan.  I know of no supplements that offer actual dental.  Some offer a discount on vision and hearing.
> 
> Rick


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## oldmontana (Oct 30, 2019)

In my state BC/BS advantage has a dental plan for 2020.  Its additional cost is way to high for what you get.

Under our basic BC/BS Medicare plan we get one free vision exam a year.

The good news is the cost of our basic plan, with the same coverage went  form $85 a month to $40 a month.


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## Linda Doc (Mar 8, 2020)

I'm in kind of a pickle because I have dental insurance through my employer that pays absolutely zero for anything beyond fillings, x-rays and cleanings. I now need a crown and a partial bridge. I thought, how much could they possibly be? I thought maybe $350 for the crown. Wrong! My dentist wants $1,750 for the crown, and $3,300 for the bridge. Money I don't have, I might add. So I don't know what I'm going to do.


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## Lc jones (Mar 8, 2020)

Colleen said:


> Thanks for the info! I had NO idea. Maybe I'll just take that money I was going to spend on a monthly plan and just put it away for when I need it
> 
> I've always had good teeth and only had a couple fillings over the years and, since I'm a big coward (because I've had some really bad experiences!) about dentists, I haven't gone much to a dentist for regular "maintenance". But a few months ago I had an infected gum and found out I need 2 teeth pulled!! I've been putting it off but I can tell it's got to be done.


That’s what I’ve been doing I have a savings account just for my teeth I do have dental insurance but it only pays a small amount every year pretty useless when it comes to root canals and crowns


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## Don M. (Mar 8, 2020)

I had a fair amount of dental work done late last year...a partial to replace old root canals, etc., that had finally failed.  I maxed out my dental insurance, and paid over $500 out of pocket.  I had plenty of time to talk to the dentist and his staff about dental insurance, and they all agreed that there really isn't Any plan out there that covers more than minor/routine procedures.  A major share of insurance premiums is spent on paperwork and administrative costs, under present plans.  I think most people would find that setting a few dollars a month aside for dental work, and dealing directly with the dentist would probably work out as well, or better, than most dental insurance....after all, the dentist wouldn't have to have someone on the staff spending all day handling insurance paperwork, and phone calls.


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## Liberty (Mar 9, 2020)

Linda Doc said:


> I'm in kind of a pickle because I have dental insurance through my employer that pays absolutely zero for anything beyond fillings, x-rays and cleanings. I now need a crown and a partial bridge. I thought, how much could they possibly be? I thought maybe $350 for the crown. Wrong! My dentist wants $1,750 for the crown, and $3,300 for the bridge. Money I don't have, I might add. So I don't know what I'm going to do.


I'd use I-Dental.  They pay about 20% on a crown.  Have you thought about having a partial instead of a bridge?  I've had one for many years and like it.  Infection can be a problem with bridges.

https://www.healingteethnaturally.com/dental-bridges-placement-risks-complications.html


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## StarSong (Mar 9, 2020)

Don M. said:


> I had plenty of time to talk to the dentist and his staff about dental insurance, and they all agreed that there really isn't Any plan out there that covers more than minor/routine procedures.


Over the years I've spent a fair amount of time researching dental plans to no avail.  Could never find any worth a hill of beans.  Given what your dentist's office says, that's probably because there isn't one.  Useful to know.


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## win231 (Mar 9, 2020)

It's really quite simple - & doesn't require any business knowledge.
The ONLY reason dental insurers are in business is to make money.
The ONLY way they can make money is if they make more money on the premiums than they spend on your dental care.  Much like home warranties & car warranties.
So, your treatment will be based on what is profitable for the insurer - not your health.


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## Ken N Tx (Mar 9, 2020)

win231 said:


> It's really quite simple - & doesn't require any business knowledge.
> The ONLY reason dental insurers are in business is to make money.
> The ONLY way they can make money is if they make more money on the premiums than they spend on your dental care.  Much like home warranties & car warranties.
> So, your treatment will be based on what is profitable for the insurer - not your health.


Very wise advise..


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