# Gays



## Phantom (Mar 11, 2014)

I thought "gays" meant both sexes

Recently Melbourne OOPS SYDNEY  (Australia) held a gay and lesbian mardi gras

My question is what are males called and I don't mean deogatory names


----------



## Jillaroo (Mar 11, 2014)

_As far as i am aware Phants it is just Gay guy._:hatlaugh1:


----------



## Phantom (Mar 11, 2014)

Jillaroo said:


> _As far as i am aware Phants it is just Gay guy._:hatlaugh1:



So you wouldn't say "She is gay' ?


----------



## Gael (Mar 11, 2014)

Phantom said:


> So you wouldn't say "She is gay' ?



It's used for both sexes. Lesbian could be used more specifically but in general it's "gay". A transexual person, however, wouldn't.


----------



## Jillaroo (Mar 11, 2014)

_I didn't say that Phants because we were talking about men and what to call them_


----------



## Pappy (Mar 11, 2014)

When I was growing up, gay meant having a good time. Ex: Everyone had a gay time. When I first heard the other meaning, I think I was in my 20s. Nowadays, everything has to have a label. I liked the old days.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 11, 2014)

"You'll have a gay old time"
~ _from The Flintstone's opening song_

So why do gay females have a secondary title and gay males do not?

I think that's gender discrimination! :cower:


----------



## Gael (Mar 11, 2014)

Pappy said:


> When I was growing up, gay meant having a good time. Ex: Everyone had a gay time. When I first heard the other meaning, I think I was in my 20s. Nowadays, everything has to have a label. I liked the old days.



*Gay is a term that primarily refers to a homosexual person or the trait of being homosexual. The term was originally used to refer to feelings of being "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy". The term's use as a reference to homosexuality may date as early as the late 19th century, but its use gradually increased in the 20th century.*


----------



## Gael (Mar 11, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> "You'll have a gay old time"
> ~ _from The Flintstone's opening song_
> 
> So why do gay females have a secondary title and gay males do not?
> ...



:crying:


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 11, 2014)

And, since it's often used as a term of endearment amongst the gay population but as a derogatory term by others, why isn't its use being banned like the "N-word"? 

What, they don't have a strong enough lobby or something?


----------



## Pappy (Mar 11, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> And, since it's often used as a term of endearment amongst the gay population but as a derogatory term by others, why isn't its use being banned like the "N-word"?
> 
> What, they don't have a strong enough lobby or something?



The N word was another word that was hardly ever used when I was small. Norwich, NY was a small town, about 8,000 pop., and to my knowledge there were only two black families in town. I was in grade school with one of the black girls and we didn't make much of it. In fact. She was a very polite person. I didn't get introduced to the segregation side of it until I went into Army. I guess it was then I started to realize that it wasn't all peaches and cream.


----------



## Phantom (Mar 11, 2014)

I still remember N boy lollies 

Talking of gay How about The Gay Gordons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJsP7Y-41_Y


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 11, 2014)

Pappy said:


> The N word was another word that was hardly ever used when I was small. Norwich, NY was a small town, about 8,000 pop., and to my knowledge there were only two black families in town. I was in grade school with one of the black girls and we didn't make much of it. In fact. She was a very polite person. I didn't get introduced to the segregation side of it until I went into Army. I guess it was then I started to realize that it wasn't all peaches and cream.



I never heard it until I entered junior high, and then it was only used among the blacks. To me it was an ugly word, but now, 30-some-odd years later, I see it as just another word. 



			
				Phantom said:
			
		

> Talking of gay How about The Gay Gordons



Heck, I'd put on a skirt and swing my sporran to that!

Oh, wait ... would that make me bisexual, or transgendered, or transvestite, or lesbian, or gay, or ... I'm SO confused! :cower:


----------



## Pappy (Mar 11, 2014)

It may sound "queer", but I guess I'll try to have a "gay" day.


----------



## Justme (Mar 11, 2014)

Homosexuality is no big deal, it is as normal as being heterosexual.


----------



## Pappy (Mar 11, 2014)

I don't care one way or the other. Just don't keep blasting it in my face constantly.


----------



## Gael (Mar 11, 2014)

Pappy said:


> The N word was another word that was hardly ever used when I was small. Norwich, NY was a small town, about 8,000 pop., and to my knowledge there were only two black families in town. I was in grade school with one of the black girls and we didn't make much of it. In fact. She was a very polite person. I didn't get introduced to the segregation side of it until I went into Army. I guess it was then I started to realize that it wasn't all peaches and cream.



The difference between growing up in the north vs the south I'd say.


----------



## Jillaroo (Mar 11, 2014)

_Many years ago i used Gaye for my youngest daughter as her middle name, she now hates it and i don't blame her, that word wasn't used to describe a homosexual in those days._ ops1:


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 11, 2014)

Well I think there seems to be an awful lot of people making a very big deal out of it, and the biggest deal seems to be trying to prove it is as normal as heterosexuality.  What I've never got about the whole thing is why things that should be kept private in a bedroom, are now front-page news, often.  I don't care who someone choses to sleep with, but I don't want to hear about it.  Guess I'm old-fashioned, but there are "unmentionables" as Phil calls underwear.


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 11, 2014)

and one more thing then I won't discuss it further, but humans are born with either an inni or an outy (as far as I know) so those fit sort of nicely together, and yes, one of the biggies for that is reproducing our species.  That's probably why there is a hard time convincing some people that homosexuality is normal, the end.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Mar 11, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Well I think there seems to be an awful lot of people making a very big deal out of it, and the biggest deal seems to be trying to prove it is as normal as heterosexuality.  What I've never got about the whole thing is why things that should be kept private in a bedroom, are now front-page news, often.  I don't care who someone choses to sleep with, but I don't want to hear about it.



I feel the same way Nwlady, people's ****** preferences should remain private, as the act of making love is very personal.  This morning I was listening to a radio show and they were talking about all the gay gab lately on the news.  A homosexual man called in, and said that he was sick and tired of all the publicity revolving around the gay community.  The majority of the homosexuals do not care for those showy gay 'pride' parades, as they show all of them in a bad light.  I have no problem with gay marriage, when I was a teen, my best friend was gay, but she knew that I was straight and respected that.  She was a wonderful person, very kind and great to hang out with.  I wouldn't want to see a heterosexual parade either, with men and women touting their ****** preferences.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 11, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> ...  I wouldn't want to see a heterosexual parade either, with men and women touting their ****** preferences.



Don't ever hang out in front of Timmy's Olde Towne Tavern in Wilkes-Barre on a Friday night, then ... :cower:


----------



## SeaBreeze (Mar 11, 2014)

Will heed your warning! nthego:


----------



## Jillaroo (Mar 11, 2014)

_Well you wouldn't like the big Mardi Gras they have each year in Oxford st Sydney, it's a real big deal with loads of floats and everyone dressed up to the nines, they all seem to have loads of fun, last year they painted the crossing in rainbow colours , it looked great.
http://www.mardigras.org.au/
_


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 11, 2014)

Jillaroo said:


> _... last year they painted the crossing in rainbow colours , it looked great._



I SO want to do a song parody of _Over The Rainbow_, especially seeing as how Judy Garland is one of the icons of gay culture.

... but it wouldn't be PC ...


----------



## Gael (Mar 12, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Well I think there seems to be an awful lot of people making a very big deal out of it, and the biggest deal seems to be trying to prove it is as normal as heterosexuality.  What I've never got about the whole thing is why things that should be kept private in a bedroom, are now front-page news, often.  I don't care who someone choses to sleep with, but I don't want to hear about it.  Guess I'm old-fashioned, but there are "unmentionables" as Phil calls underwear.



A big part of why it's such a big deal are the attacks gays have suffered and the legal restrictions concerning partnership and adoption rights and entitlements.


----------



## Gael (Mar 12, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> I SO want to do a song parody of _Over The Rainbow_, especially seeing as how Judy Garland is one of the icons of gay culture.
> 
> ... but it wouldn't be PC ...



Don't worry they beat you to the punch already.


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 12, 2014)

Gael said:


> A big part of why it's such a big deal are the attacks gays have suffered and the legal restrictions concerning partnership and adoption rights and entitlements.



Hi Gael, I really shouldn't have gotten into this, but it was my big idea.  Now I have to say something else, which I wasn't going to, but if we look around, whenever there is a conflict in this world, there are usually two-sides.  One group against another, one country against another etc.  Those attacks gays have suffered, have been suffered by the other side as well.  It is sad that the whole world can't get along, but it has not happened and I doubt it will.  If gay people or straight people want things to happen, they have to make it happen in the best way they can, just like everyone else.  And just like everyone else, there will be suffering because there will be someone that opposes the idea.  I suppose there are some people on this Earth that don't suffer, I never met anyone like that.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Mar 12, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Now I have to say something else, which I wasn't going to, but if we look around, whenever there is a conflict in this world, there are usually two-sides.  One group against another, one country against another etc.  Those attacks gays have suffered, have been suffered by the other side as well.  It is sad that the whole world can't get along, but it has not happened and I doubt it will.  If gay people or straight people want things to happen, they have to make it happen in the best way they can, just like everyone else.  And just like everyone else, there will be suffering because there will be someone that opposes the idea.  I suppose there are some people on this Earth that don't suffer, I never met anyone like that.



Some good points there Nwlady.  A lot of people are completely against those who don't follow their beliefs or lifestyles, so there is a lot of unrest among numerous groups.  The main stream media encourages the conflict and hate, by the way they report the news, in such a biased way.  When they were reporting on the murder of Matthew Shepherd, they pushed the idea that it was such a "hate" crime against homosexuals, and everyone was in an uproar.  Then I heard later on, that it was more of a drug deal gone bad, and the person involved in his murder was homosexual/bisexual himself.  

As much as I'd love to see everyone live peacefully with each other, that has an even slimmer chance of happening than it ever did.  Seems like there's forces behind the scenes, just pitting everyone against each other, whether political views, race, religion or ****** preference.


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 12, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> Some good points there Nwlady.  A lot of people are completely against those who don't follow their beliefs or lifestyles, so there is a lot of unrest among numerous groups.  The main stream media encourages the conflict and hate, by the way they report the news, in such a biased way.  When they were reporting on the murder of Matthew Shepherd, they pushed the idea that it was such a "hate" crime against homosexuals, and everyone was in an uproar.  Then I heard later on, that it was more of a drug deal gone bad, and the person involved in his murder was homosexual/bisexual himself.
> 
> As much as I'd love to see everyone live peacefully with each other, that has an even slimmer chance of happening than it ever did.  Seems like there's forces behind the scenes, just pitting everyone against each other, whether political views, race, religion or ****** preference.



That's another reason I rarely watch the news, it is biased.  And those movies aren't so far-fetched that show how the public isn't told this or that, I know that's gotta be true.  For me personally, it gets frightening not knowing who I can believe anymore.  Is there anyone?


----------



## SeaBreeze (Mar 12, 2014)




----------



## Gael (Mar 12, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Hi Gael, I really shouldn't have gotten into this, but it was my big idea.  Now I have to say something else, which I wasn't going to, but if we look around, whenever there is a conflict in this world, there are usually two-sides.  One group against another, one country against another etc.  Those attacks gays have suffered, have been suffered by the other side as well.  It is sad that the whole world can't get along, but it has not happened and I doubt it will.  If gay people or straight people want things to happen, they have to make it happen in the best way they can, just like everyone else.  And just like everyone else, there will be suffering because there will be someone that opposes the idea.  I suppose there are some people on this Earth that don't suffer, I never met anyone like that.



Not sure what you mean about...Those attacks gays have suffered, have been suffered by the other side as well.

Don't know of many instances of gays attacking straights physically. 

If gay people or straight people want things to happen, they have to make it happen in the best way they can, just like everyone else. 

I'd say that's what gay rights efforts have been about.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 12, 2014)

nwlady said:


> ... For me personally, it gets frightening not knowing who I can believe anymore.  Is there anyone?



You can believe _me_ ...


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 12, 2014)

Well, I was talking about the whole conflict, not any single incidents of violence.  I don't know about any to honest, because I don't keep up on the news because I don't know what to believe.  I'm saying that there are to sides to make a conflict, two sets of beliefs of what is right and what is wrong.  Some are on the fence about things.  Yes, gays are trying to make things the way the want, I don't know all their tactics. I guess parades etc.  Congressmen for gay-rights all that. passing laws, or trying.  But there are people with as much right on the other "team".  There's always some that don't fight fair.  I think the biggest issue for folks is the moral issue.  And then that depends on a persons definition of what is moral.


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 12, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> You can believe _me_ ...
> 
> View attachment 5895



Unless that's photoshopped, I can believe he dressed up like that for sure, lol!


----------



## Gael (Mar 12, 2014)

nwlady said:


> Well, I was talking about the whole conflict, not any single incidents of violence.  I don't know about any to honest, because I don't keep up on the news because I don't know what to believe.  I'm saying that there are to sides to make a conflict, two sets of beliefs of what is right and what is wrong.  Some are on the fence about things.  Yes, gays are trying to make things the way the want, I don't know all their tactics. I guess parades etc.  Congressmen for gay-rights all that. passing laws, or trying.  But there are people with as much right on the other "team".  There's always some that don't fight fair.  I think the biggest issue for folks is the moral issue.  And then that depends on a persons definition of what is moral.



The main issue for me is I don't want to see any group, gays, minorities, females, etc., etc. treated in a discriminatory manner or having their human rights interferred with.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 12, 2014)

Gael said:


> Don't know of many instances of gays attacking straights physically.



Ever hear of the Stonewall Inn riots of 1969? 

How about some of the "episodes" in the NYC subway system? 


But of course most of their warfare is psychological, not physical ...


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 12, 2014)

Gael said:


> The main issue for me is I don't want to see any group, gays, minorities, females, etc., etc. treated in a discriminatory manner or having their human rights interferred with.



yes, I agree gael.  I always stand up for the underdog, whoever it is at any given moment.  Just like in a football game, if someone is highly favored, and the other team is bad-mouthed, I root for the underdog  I wish there were not any underdogs. Such is life though


----------



## Gael (Mar 12, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Ever hear of the Stonewall Inn riots of 1969?
> 
> How about some of the "episodes" in the NYC subway system?
> 
> ...



Wonder why they fought back??

From wiki:
The *Stonewall riots* were a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations by members of the gay community[SUP][note 1][/SUP] against a police raid that took place in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, at the Stonewall Inn, in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of New York City. They are widely considered to constitute the single most important event leading to the gay liberation movement and the modern fight for gay and lesbian rights in the United States.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP]
Gay Americans in the 1950s and 1960s faced a legal system more anti-homosexual than those of some Warsaw Pact countries.[SUP][note 2][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] Early homophile groups in the U.S. sought to prove that gay people could be assimilated into society, and they favored non-confrontational education for homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. The last years of the 1960s, however, were very contentious, as many social movements were active, including the African American Civil Rights Movement, the Counterculture of the 1960s, and antiwar demonstrations. These influences, along with the liberal environment of Greenwich Village, served as catalysts for the Stonewall riots.
Very few establishments welcomed openly gay people in the 1950s and 1960s. Those that did were often bars, although bar owners and managers were rarely gay. The Stonewall Inn, at the time, was owned by the Mafia.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] It catered to an assortment of patrons, but it was known to be popular with the poorest and most marginalized people in the gay community: drag queens, representatives of a newly self-aware transgendercommunity, effeminate young men, male prostitutes, and homeless youth. Police raids on gay bars were routine in the 1960s, but officers quickly lost control of the situation at the Stonewall Inn, and attracted a crowd that was incited to riot. Tensions betweenNew York City police and gay residents of Greenwich Village erupted into more protests the next evening, and again several nights later. Within weeks, Village residents quickly organized into activist groups to concentrate efforts on establishing places for gays and lesbians to be open about their ****** orientation without fear of being arrested.
After the Stonewall riots, gays and lesbians in New York City faced gender, race, class, and generational obstacles to becoming a cohesive community. Within six months, two gay activist organizations were formed in New York, concentrating on confrontational tactics, and three newspapers were established to promote rights for gays and lesbians. Within a few years, gay rights organizations were founded across the U.S. and the world. On June 28, 1970, the first Gay Pride marches took place in Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York commemorating the anniversary of the riots. Similar marches were organized in other cities. Today, Gay Pride events are held annually throughout the world toward the end of June to mark the Stonewall riots.


----------



## Gael (Mar 12, 2014)

nwlady said:


> yes, I agree gael.  I always stand up for the underdog, whoever it is at any given moment.  Just like in a football game, if someone is highly favored, and the other team is bad-mouthed, I root for the underdog  I wish there were not any underdogs. Such is life though



I know. And here I am in a land where the underdog still hasn't had their day.


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 12, 2014)

Gael said:


> Wonder why they fought back??
> 
> From wiki:
> The *Stonewall riots* were a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations by members of the gay community[SUP][note 1][/SUP] against a police raid that took place in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, at the Stonewall Inn, in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of New York City. They are widely considered to constitute the single most important event leading to the gay liberation movement and the modern fight for gay and lesbian rights in the United States.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP]
> ...



See, there's an example of my own perceptions of gays, I don't think of them as being violent at all, but this says different, and like that old show "Believe it or Not".  Anyway, thanks for the examples Phil, again the two sides to the stories.  It's a mess.


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 12, 2014)

Gael said:


> I know. And here I am in a land where the underdog still hasn't had their day.



I sure feel like an underdog that hasn't had her day at times.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 12, 2014)

Gael said:


> Wonder why they fought back??



No, I do not.

Mainly because I know that at heart they're still descended from the same low form of life that every other human being is, no matter their ****** orientation.

That doesn't justify their actions. Gandhi never had to resort to violence ...


----------



## Gael (Mar 12, 2014)

nwlady said:


> See, there's an example of my own perceptions of gays, I don't think of them as being violent at all, but this says different, and like that old show "Believe it or Not".  Anyway, thanks for the examples Phil, again the two sides to the stories.  It's a mess.



But do you see why they fought back? And like any minority that's been discriminated, it sometimes does require fighting back.


----------



## Gael (Mar 12, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> No, I do not.
> 
> Mainly because I know that at heart they're still descended from the same low form of life that every other human being is, no matter their ****** orientation.
> 
> That doesn't justify their actions. Gandhi never had to resort to violence ...



OH brother.


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 12, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


>



man, that song was maybe the best ever written, sure sad man-kind can't get it together.  Thanks, good to hear it again


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 12, 2014)

Gael said:


> But do you see why they fought back? And like any minority that's been discriminated, it sometimes does require fighting back.



I agree at times it does require fighting back, against the machine, but I don't know, wasn't there.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 12, 2014)

Gael said:


> OH brother.



No reply, huh?

I thought not - I know it's difficult to spar with someone 5 classes above you ... layful:


----------



## Gael (Mar 12, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> No reply, huh?
> 
> I thought not - I know it's difficult to spar with someone 5 classes above you ... layful:



My reply was to post the background of what led up to them fighting for their rights. And knock off the sarcasm, it makes you look ridiculous.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 12, 2014)

Gael said:


> My reply was to post the background of what led up to them fighting for their rights. And knock off the sarcasm, it makes you look ridiculous.



I think it makes me look rather cute! :bowknot:

You're still maintaining that a violation of some perceived "right" is sufficient cause to engage in a physical confrontation.

If I carried that maxim to the extreme I could kick an old lady into the street because her dog pooped on my lawn. 

A fight, especially a large-scale riot spread over several days, is not fighting for a cause - it's engaging in civil disorder and anarchy. If you want to be civilized and respected about getting your rights fight with lawyers and judges, not sticks and bricks. Living in Ireland you should know all about this - I shouldn't have to preach to you.

Fighting is a failure to negotiate by peaceful means - it's a failure to be a civil human being. By holding that riot those particular people permanently lost my good-will and indulgences.


----------



## Denise1952 (Mar 12, 2014)

another thing is if they were drinking, who of us handles things properly when we are under the influence.  I know I used to think I was super-woman, oh yeah, and beautiful too, LOL!  Hey, come to think of it, all the guys looked better to me too  yeah well, it didn't last, there was always the cruel, sunlight of morning revealing the ugly truth


----------



## Gael (Mar 12, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> I think it makes me look rather cute! :bowknot:
> 
> You're still maintaining that a violation of some perceived "right" is sufficient cause to engage in a physical confrontation.
> 
> ...



From what I can see, they were being discriminated and had not the legal rights any human being deserves.

People do get fed up and sometimes anger takes over. And yes, living here has shown what can occur when a government refuses to respond to peoples rights and they allow persecutions to continue. 

As a fellow American you know what we had to do to gain our independance. We most certainly had to resort to battle.

"I think it makes me look rather cute!"

You're better when using logic then resorting to childish sarcastic remarks aimed at discrediting those whose opinions differ from yours. "I know it's difficult to spar with someone 5 classes above you ... 






"

It's far from cute.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 12, 2014)

Gael said:


> From what I can see, they were being discriminated and had not the legal rights any human being deserves.



And did they really think that by throwing bricks they were going to have their rights acknowledged any faster?

It was like most riots - it was simply an excuse to act like idiots.



> As a fellow American you know what we had to do to gain our independance. We most certainly had to resort to battle.



That was a long time ago, in a totally different world. No reason for it in 1969.



> "I think it makes me look rather cute!"
> 
> You're better when using logic then resorting to childish sarcastic remarks aimed at discrediting those whose opinions differ from yours. "I know it's difficult to spar with someone 5 classes above you ... layful:"
> 
> It's far from cute.



But you know what?

It's _true_. 

It IS difficult to spar with someone 5 classes above you. I know. I've done it.

It's how you learn.

No disrespect intended, but if we were enemies I'd have already spotted your weakness and would attack through it. Speaking of riots and blending in the related topic of defending oneself, our goal should be to minimize our weaknesses and maximize our strengths.

I've taught this philosophy to my students for many years, and I'm sorry if you don't want the lesson - it's here if you want it.


----------



## Gael (Mar 13, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> And did they really think that by throwing bricks they were going to have their rights acknowledged any faster?
> 
> It was like most riots - it was simply an excuse to act like idiots.
> 
> ...



I disagree with your reasoning Phil and your examples to justify it. We don't see eye to eye on this topic and probably never will.

But you do tend to like to debate ad nauseum so I've explained my position and so do you and I'll leave it as I don't like to debate for the sake of debating.

And hope you also learned a lesson about the use of sarcasm not being the way to go in any debate.


----------



## SifuPhil (Mar 13, 2014)

Gael said:


> I disagree with your reasoning Phil and your examples to justify it. We don't see eye to eye on this topic and probably never will.
> 
> But you do tend to like to debate ad nauseum so I've explained my position and so do you and I'll leave it as I don't like to debate for the sake of debating.
> 
> And hope you also learned a lesson about the use of sarcasm not being the way to go in any debate.



I wasn't aware that this was a debate ...


----------

