# Risk of death is less with strict gun laws



## The Inspector (Oct 24, 2015)

[h=1]Study shows fewer deaths in states with strict gun laws[/h]                                 [h=2]Risk of death is less with strict gun laws, researcher says[/h]http://www.wcvb.com/news/study-shows-fewer-deaths-in-states-with-strict-gun-laws/36027736

Authors conceded their scoring system "has not been validated." But  the lead author, Eric Fleegler of Boston Children's Hospital, said he  believed the evidence was clear that the risk of dying from suicide and  homicide is generally reduced in states with the most gun restrictions.
"In  states where there has been more legislation related to firearms  purchasing and the way guns are stored and carried, there are lower  rates of fatalities," he said. "This is important."

People like power.So like to believe, Having that gun power make things safer.
It is very clear that the more guns out there the more good people die from guns.


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## fureverywhere (Oct 24, 2015)

Of course that's the whole answer in a nutshell. But the gun nuts defend their right to stay armed insisting that their guns aren't directly responsible for the daily violence. Of course not...it's everybody else's weapons. Also the twisted view that the only way to control gun violence is by having more people with guns to shoot the bad people with the guns...really how do you fight that logic? What they disregard is our rights. The right not to get seriously wounded or killed because we happen to be in the way.


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## Shirley (Oct 24, 2015)

I believe this has been said before, but I'll say it again. If you could get all the guns from the bad guys, we others wouldn't need ours. But how do you propose to get the bad guys to turn theirs in?  Offer them a lollipop?  Offer them money? They would just take that and go buy a bigger gun from the black market. 

I don't see any feasible way to keep guns out of the hands of the bad guys.


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## The Inspector (Oct 24, 2015)

The more guns out there the easier it is for the bad Guys to get them,often stealing the from the good people.


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## imp (Oct 24, 2015)

Perhaps making firearms a "controlled substance" would work? After all, look at how the "War on Drugs" has proven so successful that no one can find drugs anymore.....imp


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## BobF (Oct 24, 2015)

The US has been making headway for the last several years.    Our rate of incidence has been going down each year.   

That is pretty good.


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## Warrigal (Oct 24, 2015)

I think responders have completely ignored the number of suicides that wouldn't happen if a gun were not readily available.



> Because such studies also consider suicides in calculating firearm deaths, critics say it is misleading to cite them when arguing for ways to prevent mass shootings. Suicides account for the majority of America's roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths.


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## Son_of_Perdition (Oct 24, 2015)

I've said it before, make all manufactures of firearms install a GPS chip, have law enforcement carry scanners and stores, schools, malls, and theaters install sensors.

Small GPS chip made by a New Zealand company.
View attachment 23236


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## ~Lenore (Oct 24, 2015)

*People who plan to or want to commit suicide do not need guns.  Some states have recently passed laws so that you just  go to the doctor to get a prescription for a drug to kill yourself. 

 Life is not worth much these days, not from the womb to the grave.   It has very little to do with the availability of guns. *


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## Warrigal (Oct 24, 2015)

So why are there over 15,000 suicides where people blow their brains out? 
If you have to go and ask for the means perhaps this give you time to reconsider.
Putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger is too immediate.


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## imp (Oct 24, 2015)

Warri, I feel you miss the very important point here: any individual's body and life are his or hers alone. What that individual does to that body is not to be governed from without, if the individual is "free". Freedom is the question here. 

Do you oppose suicide, on principle?  imp


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## The Inspector (Oct 24, 2015)

imp said:


> Perhaps making firearms a "controlled substance" would work? After all, look at how the "War on Drugs" has proven so successful that no one can find drugs anymore.....imp



Yes you could say people are.like addicted to guns. I did not say I had the answer to gun addiction.

Better  laws would help. The demand is strong. Making a solution difficult.


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## IKE (Oct 24, 2015)

I'm a gun owner, have been for over 50 years and will be till I die........it's probably best that I stay out of this conversation.


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## fureverywhere (Oct 24, 2015)

It's useless to argue the point, it won't be solved in our lifetime anyways. One of the few positive steps is making gun shops accountable for weapons they've sold. If you sell an arsenal to someone. The victims of that crime should have the right to sue. A baby step though...


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 24, 2015)

Shirley said:


> I believe this has been said before, but I'll say it again. If you could get all the guns from the bad guys, we others wouldn't need ours. But how do you propose to get the bad guys to turn theirs in?  Offer them a lollipop?  Offer them money? They would just take that and go buy a bigger gun from the black market.
> 
> I don't see any feasible way to keep guns out of the hands of the bad guys.



You're right Shirley, but I would own a gun(s) whether I needed to or not.  The criminals and gangs on the streets are responsible for most of the gun crime in the United States.  The first priority of the government should be cracking down on the street crime, and getting the illegally acquired guns away from the criminals.  They need to leave the responsible gun owner in America alone, and focus on the real problems we're dealing with.



IKE said:


> I'm a gun owner, have been for over 50 years and will be till I die........it's probably best that I stay out of this conversation.



We have owned guns for a long time too Ike.  As I've said many times, I have a loaded pistol at the ready if needed, but I'm in my 60s and have never had to use it for anything but occasional target practice.  Neither of us are hunters, but we do own rifles also, and take them when we're camping in the back woods for protection from animals or target practice.  We've never had to shoot an animal yet, in all these years.  Don't stay out of this conversation, we're all entitled to our opinions and we don't all have to agree with each other.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 24, 2015)

~Lenore said:


> *People who plan to or want to commit suicide do not need guns.  Some states have recently passed laws so that you just  go to the doctor to get a prescription for a drug to kill yourself.
> 
> Life is not worth much these days, not from the womb to the grave.   It has very little to do with the availability of guns. *



I agree completely Lenore.  I also respect anyone's right to take their own life if they choose to.  I was always in favor of assisted suicide too, for those who don't want to leave a mess for their survivors to deal with once they're gone.


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## imp (Oct 24, 2015)

IKE said:


> I'm a gun owner, have been for over 50 years and will be till I die........it's probably best that I stay out of this conversation.



Too late now, IKE!    imp


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## imp (Oct 24, 2015)

* "we're all entitled to our opinions and we don't all have to agree with each other."

*If we weren't (entitled) and we did (agree), there would be little basis for discussion. We _could, _I suppose, discuss the variation in wall-colors from one of our homes to another's, I suppose, or some other such inane way of using PC capability in it's most-minimal way.......imp


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## BobF (Oct 24, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> I think responders have completely ignored the number of suicides that wouldn't happen if a gun were not readily available.



I think that those who wish to die will use any available means to achieve that end.    A car into a tree, over the cliff, into a train.   Maybe jump from a  building, or step into a car or train.   Cut their wrists, swim in wild waters, go over a dam.   Plenty of options and many just never get seen as a suicide.


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## Ina (Oct 24, 2015)

I too have a gun close at night. The last time I owned a gun was almost 40 years ago.  Now, I have always owned rifles, but they were old, and came rhrough the family.  But a hand gun is different, it isn't made for hunting animals.

For safety sake, I passed all of the rifles on down to our grandsons when Michael died last year, and I bought a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver with lazer sighting.  A red lazer light pointing at you is better than be told, "I have a gun,so go away."  I go to the gun range ae least every three months, so that I have less of a chance fumbling if I ever need to act.

I wish I didn't need a gun, but for a woman alone, it would be very foolish not to have protection.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 24, 2015)

You're a smart lady Ina, better to have it and not need to use it, than need to use it and not have it.  Hopefully you'll be like me and only use it for target practice.


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## Butterfly (Oct 24, 2015)

imp said:


> Perhaps making firearms a "controlled substance" would work? After all, look at how the "War on Drugs" has proven so successful that no one can find drugs anymore.....imp



Good point!


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## Butterfly (Oct 24, 2015)

Ina said:


> I too have a gun close at night. The last time I owned a gun was almost 40 years ago.  Now, I have always owned rifles, but they were old, and came rhrough the family.  But a hand gun is different, it isn't made for hunting animals.
> 
> For safety sake, I passed all of the rifles on down to our grandsons when Michael died last year, and I bought a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver with lazer sighting.  A red lazer light pointing at you is better than be told, "I have a gun,so go away."  I go to the gun range ae least every three months, so that I have less of a chance fumbling if I ever need to act.
> 
> I wish I didn't need a gun, but for a woman alone, it would be very foolish not to have protection.



Couldn't agree more!  I think I'll look into that laser sighting.  Mine does not have that.


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## fureverywhere (Oct 24, 2015)

I have a big scary dog close at night. Gentle as a lamb, he will get up on his own and patrol the house at night. Then he comes bedside and whines like a baby until he's boosted back on the bed. Bullies have most of their bulk in front, their back legs look they belong to another dog. The only thing dangerous about the bully breeds...the one reason why so very many people fear them...
...their intestinal fortitude can clear a room.


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## imp (Oct 24, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> Couldn't agree more!  I think I'll look into that laser sighting.  Mine does not have that.



Ladies, consider this: In the dark, at night, alone, possibly having been awakened by a noise, a shadowy figure across the room, you retrieve your handgun, the laser sight illuminates upon the area the muzzle is pointing at, BUT, the intruder then immediately SEES where you are, knows what you have, and if armed, will immediately shoot at your laser sight.

Not good. I am no expert at modern weaponry, or sighting systems, but I know I sure as hell do not want a potential adversary to be able to home in on me.    imp


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## imp (Oct 24, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> I have a big scary dog close at night. Gentle as a lamb, he will get up on his own and patrol the house at night. Then he comes bedside and whines like a baby until he's boosted back on the bed. Bullies have most of their bulk in front, their back legs look they belong to another dog. The only thing dangerous about the bully breeds...the one reason why so very many people fear them...
> ...their intestinal fortitude can clear a room.



Understood, and agreed! A good observer, a dog will know much earlier than a person if something is up.   imp


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## Manatee (Oct 24, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> It's useless to argue the point, it won't be solved in our lifetime anyways. One of the few positive steps is making gun shops accountable for weapons they've sold. If you sell an arsenal to someone. The victims of that crime should have the right to sue. A baby step though...



That is just a scheme to drive the gun shops out of business through punitive litigation.


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## Warrigal (Oct 24, 2015)

imp said:


> Warri, I feel you miss the very important point here: any individual's body and life are his or hers alone. What that individual does to that body is not to be governed from without, if the individual is "free". Freedom is the question here.
> 
> Do you oppose suicide, on principle?  imp



My husband once attempted to kill himself when he was suffering from anxiety and depression. It was very deliberate and he took an overdose of his medication over an hour to avoid vomiting up the pills. When I found him he was pretty unresponsive and I called an ambulance. He was taken to hospital but fortunately the tablets weren't all that lethal. 

He has not attempted suicide since but I had to steel myself for that possibility and the knowledge that if he did he would probably be better at it next time. Our daughter was quite traumatised by his attempt, as was I. For a long time I was emotionally frozen, trying to distance myself from the pain that might be on the horizon.

His depression finally left him and has not returned.

Am I glad he didn't have a handy gun at the time? You better believe it. 
Suicide is transferable down the generations and affects more than the person who chooses to kill themself.


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## Misty (Oct 25, 2015)

Chicago has the strictest gun-control laws in the country. “Assault weapons” and high-capacity magazines are completely banned, and they have a very high murder rate. Some area's are like war zones.


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## fureverywhere (Oct 25, 2015)

I'm just curious...a question for the way total gun lovers. Respectfully do you believe there should be at least some gun control laws? Or do you think it should just be a completely free market? Is the logic that every American citizen has the right to protect themselves with firearms? Should there be any kind of background checks? If so what do you feel might be something that should bar someone from buying a weapon? A criminal record? A history of psychiatric hospitalization? Domestic violence charges? just trying to figure out the mindset.


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## BobF (Oct 25, 2015)

How about getting the press to go after the criminals and less on the showy cases they love to feature.   Can't stop the press from reporting on the mass shootings but maybe just report without all this anti gun nonsense being the message.   

For the laws we have in the US, yes, each state is doing its best to recognize gun ownership.   The feds can control the types of guns by not allowing the machine gun types into the public market.    The feds can also require mental limits and make sure those backgrounds must be released by the doctors or no gun permits at all.  Fed controlled owner ship rules like buy, signup, and wait a week or so for possession.   States need authority as each state has different requirements for hunting etc.

Mostly, if folks really don't want guns in there area, they should get their congresspersons to start the USA Constitutional Amendment movement and see how well they might do.   Someday that might work, but for now all this anti gun harassment is not doing a thing but irritate all that are for or against guns.


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## fureverywhere (Oct 25, 2015)

Although nobody is listening at this point there is the issue of suicide and depression. Sure you can kill yourself any number of ways, the right pills, a bottle of booze, and a plastic bag...oops, don't forget to add big rubber bands to your shopping list. The point is that having access to a gun means statistically you will be far more successful at dying. Or ending up a vegetable with half of your face missing. Then you'd have to communicate with your caregiver about getting those rubber bands...of course duct tape might do in a pinch...grim stuff.


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## ~Lenore (Oct 26, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> Although nobody is listening at this point there is the issue of suicide and depression. Sure you can kill yourself any number of ways, the right pills, a bottle of booze, and a plastic bag...oops, don't forget to add big rubber bands to your shopping list. The point is that having access to a gun means statistically you will be far more successful at dying. Or ending up a vegetable with half of your face missing. Then you'd have to communicate with your caregiver about getting those rubber bands...of course duct tape might do in a pinch...grim stuff.



*So, your thought is, more gun control is needed to stop suicides?  

  I own a hand gun.  I, at one time, considered suicide.  I got my gun and also some pills and lay in my bed deciding which way should I go?  Pills first then gun or ...?  As you can see I did neither and I still own the gun and threw away the bottle of Nembutal pills. 
*


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## Davey Jones (Oct 26, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> Of course that's the whole answer in a nutshell. But the gun nuts defend their right to stay armed insisting that their guns aren't directly responsible for the daily violence. Of course not...it's everybody else's weapons. Also the twisted view that the only way to control gun violence is by having more people with guns to shoot the bad people with the guns...really how do you fight that logic? What they disregard is our rights. The right not to get seriously wounded or killed because we happen to be in the way.



*Good post,makes a lot of sense.*


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