# B12, and how best to absorb it for heart and nerve health



## Denise1952 (Mar 27, 2015)

I read a lot last night, including finding info on B12.  Another thing I did not know anything about, other than it's "some" supplement.

Is anyone on B12 shots, or has anyone tried other absorption methods?  As I was telling Josiah on another thread, I believe every thing I have going on, has to do with nerves either being shot, or getting there.  I read that folks over 50 can become quickly deficient of B12.  So now, I want to try it as well, but I am not the type to go for shots, but my insurance might cover it.

Any experience or info welcome, Denise


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 27, 2015)

I buy some sublingual B-12 at times, usually just take a B-50 complex.  Methyl-cobalmin and Hydroxy-cobalmin are the best forms, as they are natural and are most usable and desirable. 

Don't buy the Cyanocabalmin, our bodies must convert the cyano, and the conversion is about 10%.

Cyano, like the name sounds, has cyanide in it and is _not _a natural form of B-12.

There are rare cases of the Cyanocobalmin causing optic nerve damage in individuals who are genetically susceptible.


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## Josiah (Mar 27, 2015)

Vitamin B12 is a very complicated supplement. There are four distinct forms, Methylcobalamin, Cyanocobalamin, Hydroxocobalamin, and Adenosylcobalamin And the form you should take believe it of not is dependent on which mutations you have to I believe your MTHFR gene. I'll have to research this because I haven't thought about it for a while. Most people of course don't know the status of their MTHFR mutations but geeks like me do. And it makes a difference. I use to take Methylcobalamin but now I take Hydroxocobalamin.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 27, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> I buy some sublingual B-12 at times, usually just take a B-50 complex.  Methyl-cobalmin and Hydroxy-cobalmin are the best forms, as they are natural and are most usable and desirable.
> 
> Don't buy the Cyanocabalmin, our bodies must convert the cyano, and the conversion is about 10%.
> 
> ...



Gads, thanks for this SB.  I was reading about taking the tabs I have, and crushing them, using a bit of water to make a paste, then stick it in nose (well, they could have said stick it elsewhere, lol).  it did say to do it with a Q-tip, says it's the best absorption next to the shots.  It also says, that any discomfort would be from additives in the tabs, besides the B12.  I don't know, sounds scarey, but I may try just a little and see.  I guess the under the tongue doesn't work so hot, according to some opinions (danged opinions, never know til we try right )  I still feel better doing this then letting my doctors experiment with their drugs on me.

I didn't mention this, but I was on Lexapro for 5 months, about.  I read some stories from folks that got addicted, and suffered awful trying to get off it.  So yep, I went off it, thinking 5 months isn't very long.  I have suffered withdrawals.  I have also been on clonazapam for my tremors (spasmodic torticolus) for 25 years (since 88)  1 mg, and the docs say, no worries, so low a dosage.  Guess what, I ran out and had moved, so had to find a new doc.  I was off them about 2 weeks sicker then I've ever been in my life.  No one will tell me something is not addictive, and expect me to believe it again  That's why I want to be part of my own health from now on.

I am still on the clonazapam, can't do everything at once.  I am scared bad about the weening process, it's very slow, and people are still suffering.  Anyway, who would have thought.  I am finding out now, better late then never


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## Debby (Mar 28, 2015)

I've read that one of the problems that we aging folks experience with B12 deficiencies is because of gradually failing ability to digest our food properly.  We produce less of the stomach acid that's needed to do the job properly so if people are relying on the fact that they eat meat for example, if they aren't able to break it down completely, they are getting a lesser amount than a young person would.  So I think the idea of taking a methylcobalamin tablet each day is excellent.

My now dead uncle used to complain about stomach problems and he continually was eating Tums like they were after dinner mints.  Problem is that they cut stomach acids which would only add to B12 deficiency problems.  And isn't B12 critical to proper brain function?  In his case, while he was never diagnosed with dementia or alzheimers, but he definitely became loopier and more childish the older he got.


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## Josiah (Mar 28, 2015)

Debby said:


> I've read that one of the problems that we aging folks experience with B12 deficiencies is because of gradually failing ability to digest our food properly.  We produce less of the stomach acid that's needed to do the job properly so if people are relying on the fact that they eat meat for example, if they aren't able to break it down completely, they are getting a lesser amount than a young person would.  So I think the idea of taking a methylcobalamin tablet each day is excellent.
> 
> My now dead uncle used to complain about stomach problems and he continually was eating Tums like they were after dinner mints.  Problem is that they cut stomach acids which would only add to B12 deficiency problems.  And isn't B12 critical to proper brain function?  In his case, while he was never diagnosed with dementia or alzheimers, but he definitely became loopier and more childish the older he got.



You're absolutely right Debby. Older people have trouble producing sufficient stomach acid and this leads to small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. I take Betaine HCL (hydrochloric acid) with every meal to increase the acidity in my stomach.

http://chriskresser.com/sibo-what-causes-it-and-why-its-so-hard-to-treat

[h=1]SIBO—What causes it and why it’s so hard to treat.[/h]_on NOVEMBER 4, 2014 by CHRIS KRESSER 323 comments_
*While bacteria are an essential part of a healthy small bowel and perform important functions, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth can lead to leaky gut and a number of other symptoms. Learn what puts you at risk for SIBO.*


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## NancyNGA (Mar 28, 2015)

Debby said:


> My now dead uncle used to complain about stomach problems and he continually was eating Tums like they were after dinner mints.  Problem is that they cut stomach acids which would only add to B12 deficiency problems.  And isn't B12 critical to proper brain function?  In his case, while he was never diagnosed with dementia or alzheimers, but he definitely became loopier and more childish the older he got.



I still suspect this was at least part of my father's health problems.  He used to eat Tums like candy also, then turn around and drink the vinegar from pickled beets and cucumbers.:yuk:  They finally diagnosed Parkinson's disease after years of various neurological problems.  But as I understand it, if you don't show the characteristic tremors, the only way to be sure short of an autopsy, is if the meds help, and they never helped, imo.  They just said, you should see what he'd be like if he *didn't* take the meds. (So who wants to run that experiment!)  Doctors just shrugged off my B-12 suggestion, but it was probably too late at that point, anyway.  It seems like they prefer to look for zebras instead of horses. 

My doctor, OTOH, is almost obsessive on B-12.  He thinks the guidelines for blood levels are too low for seniors, and wants me to get monthly injections.  It's near impossible to give an overdose, so why not try it.:shrug:  Although I must confess I haven't followed up on it like I should.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 28, 2015)

Josiah said:


> Vitamin B12 is a very complicated supplement. There are four distinct forms, Methylcobalamin, Cyanocobalamin, Hydroxocobalamin, and Adenosylcobalamin And the form you should take believe it of not is dependent on which mutations you have to I believe your MTHFR gene. I'll have to research this because I haven't thought about it for a while. Most people of course don't know the status of their MTHFR mutations but geeks like me do. And it makes a difference. I use to take Methylcobalamin but now I take Hydroxocobalamin.



i burnt my hand so cant type lol but wanted to thank you for looking into it josiah, if you need to know something from me let me know.  iknow im a mutant but not all the details lol


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## Denise1952 (Mar 28, 2015)

Debby said:


> I've read that one of the problems that we aging folks experience with B12 deficiencies is because of gradually failing ability to digest our food properly.  We produce less of the stomach acid that's needed to do the job properly so if people are relying on the fact that they eat meat for example, if they aren't able to break it down completely, they are getting a lesser amount than a young person would.  So I think the idea of taking a methylcobalamin tablet each day is excellent.
> 
> My now dead uncle used to complain about stomach problems and he continually was eating Tums like they were after dinner mints.  Problem is that they cut stomach acids which would only add to B12 deficiency problems.  And isn't B12 critical to proper brain function?  In his case, while he was never diagnosed with dementia or alzheimers, but he definitely became loopier and more childish the older he got.



this 2nd paragraph is me so i know i need b12


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## Debby (Mar 28, 2015)

Do you have stomach problems?  I've also heard that apple cider vinegar is helpful to digestion.  I came across this link:  http://www.webmd.com/diet/apple-cider-vinegar-and-health

and it talks about five or six benefits and the digestion one is at the end of the second page.  I think I've also heard that sipping ACV with your meals help with your digestion too because you are increasing the acid level in your stomach.  So maybe that is something you could try on top of taking the sublingual tablet.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 28, 2015)

I got into the habit of popping a lot of Tums for heartburn when I was working, now I have the Alka Seltzer soft chews at home, but I've cut way down on them.  They are nothing but Calcium Carbonate, the worst form of calcium to take as the body/bones does not absorb it.  It's more likely to calcify the arteries and cause stroke.  

After my father in law had his major stroke, which left him half paralyzed, couldn't walk, speak or take care of his personal needs at all, I started paying attention to calcium.  His carotid artery was 99% blocked with calcification according to the doctor.  He took oyster shell calcium daily.  I don't take any calcium anymore, except for tums only when needed.  I take vitamin k2 daily to help keep any calcium from my diet out of my arteries and in my bones.

Anyhoo, I take a half teaspoon of aluminum-free baking soda from the health food store with a very small amount of water when I feel heartburn.  This is normally at night, right before bed, or after I've been in bed for the first hour.  It will make you belch and relieve the heartburn most of the time.

I think B12 has a lot of benefits including memory, but I wouldn't snort it in my nose...I think under the tongue is much better and safer to do.


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## Josiah (Mar 28, 2015)

Debby, I'm entirely happy with my current regimen. At age 80 I know I'm not producing enough acid and so I supplement with Betaine HCL, ACV is also effective, but I don't enjoy swallowing it.The amount of Betaine I take is dependent on how much protein is in the meal I'm eating.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 28, 2015)

Debby said:


> Do you have stomach problems?  I've also heard that apple cider vinegar is helpful to digestion.  I came across this link:  http://www.webmd.com/diet/apple-cider-vinegar-and-health
> 
> and it talks about five or six benefits and the digestion one is at the end of the second page.  I think I've also heard that sipping ACV with your meals help with your digestion too because you are increasing the acid level in your stomach.  So maybe that is something you could try on top of taking the sublingual tablet.



Some acid reflux, but not often, esophogeol spasms, man those are like a heart attack, I mean feel like one.  But I am finding if I lower my stress level, and, don't eat too much later in the evening, I'm not having those very often.  I use ACV for lots of stuff, well, tummy issues, yes  Thanks much Debby  PS I'm thinking of the B12 more for the tingling, and electric shocks that happen in my hands, feet, left side of left knee.  I think I would do well to see a chiro as soon as I can.  See what he thinks.  My neck hurts all the time, and I think my bod is out of wack.  Probably because of a crappy pillow and a real crappy bed for 3 years before I got to my sis's.

I really thought I was fine for that 3 years, but when it all hits you, you start thinking maybe a good bed and pillow are important, duh;(


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## tnthomas (Mar 28, 2015)

I take subilingual B12 these->>>http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Methyl-B-12-Cherry-Flavor-5000-mcg-60-Lozenges/117
for peripheral neuropathy in my feet.   I don't know for sure if there's been improvement or not, maybe I'm just getting used to it.  :shrug:


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## Debby (Mar 29, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Some acid reflux, but not often, esophogeol spasms, man those are like a heart attack, I mean feel like one.  But I am finding if I lower my stress level, and, don't eat too much later in the evening, I'm not having those very often.  I use ACV for lots of stuff, well, tummy issues, yes  Thanks much Debby  PS I'm thinking of the B12 more for the tingling, and electric shocks that happen in my hands, feet, left side of left knee.  I think I would do well to see a chiro as soon as I can.  See what he thinks.  My neck hurts all the time, and I think my bod is out of wack.  Probably because of a crappy pillow and a real crappy bed for 3 years before I got to my sis's.
> 
> I really thought I was fine for that 3 years, but when it all hits you, you start thinking maybe a good bed and pillow are important, duh;(




Sounds very uncomfortable Denise.  Maybe you do have problems with your spine.  My daughter, in absolute desperation went to a chiropractor who specializes in necks and spines and among other things, the x-ray showed that her atlas bone is fused to her skull and her spine is twisted and all of this accounts for the migraines since she was four and lately (after two big babies) has caused a cascade of neck and back pain that is almost crippling. 

She is getting back tonight from flying across the country to see this specialist and whether there will be any improvement over the long term is still up in the air. We're hoping!

So maybe you're out of alignment too.  Could you see a chiropractor to get checked out?  I mean if a reg. doctor can't figure out your issues, maybe a bone guy is next in line.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 29, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> I take subilingual B12 these->>>http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Methyl-B-12-Cherry-Flavor-5000-mcg-60-Lozenges/117
> for peripheral neuropathy in my feet.   I don't know for sure if there's been improvement or not, maybe I'm just getting used to it.  :shrug:



Hi Tn,

One of my toes started out having a burning, pain & tingling.  I thought maybe I needed new tennies as I put a lot of miles on them walking.  Anyway, it went from that to just being numb, but it feels like very near the surface, or skin.  Same exact thing in my left knee.  I used to have to be so careful pulling on jeans, or with covers at night.  If I barely touched the area it would burn, if I actually rubbed up against something by accident, omg, it could put me down rolling in pain.  It's subsided over the last, 5 or 6 years now, but still numbness, and some tingling at times.  Is your neuropathy like that?  I wondered if I had that.  I went to a neuro one time for it in my hands but never again.  I mean, call me a booboo baby but I can NOT take their probing with needles.  I'd rather live with my own pain


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## Debby (Mar 29, 2015)

Josiah said:


> Debby, I'm entirely happy with my current regimen. At age 80 I know I'm not producing enough acid and so I supplement with Betaine HCL, ACV is also effective, but I don't enjoy swallowing it.The amount of Betaine I take is dependent on how much protein is in the meal I'm eating.




Yes ACV is pretty nasty isn't it?  I think when my mom was a child, they used to use it with some sugar as a poor peoples version of lemonade.  I know that ACV is supposed to be good but I find it pretty hard to swallow too.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 29, 2015)

Debby said:


> Sounds very uncomfortable Denise.  Maybe you do have problems with your spine.  My daughter, in absolute desperation went to a chiropractor who specializes in necks and spines and among other things, the x-ray showed that her atlas bone is fused to her skull and her spine is twisted and all of this accounts for the migraines since she was four and lately (after two big babies) has caused a cascade of neck and back pain that is almost crippling.
> 
> She is getting back tonight from flying across the country to see this specialist and whether there will be any improvement over the long term is still up in the air. We're hoping!
> 
> So maybe you're out of alignment too.  Could you see a chiropractor to get checked out?  I mean if a reg. doctor can't figure out your issues, maybe a bone guy is next in line.



Sorry to hear of your daughter's issues Debby  Interesting, 4 years old is about the time my migraines started, it was before school I know.  When I got into school the teachers would move me to the front of the room because they thought I was having sight issues when I'd get a migraine (I was) but then I'd throw up and they'd send me home, or to the sick room.

I feel like something out of alignment, and would prefer a chiro.   Have to save up and see one  Thank you for all the info, and I so hope they find a way to help your girl, Denise


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## Debby (Mar 29, 2015)

NancyNGA said:


> I still suspect this was at least part of my father's health problems.  He used to eat Tums like candy also, then turn around and drink the vinegar from pickled beets and cucumbers.:yuk:  They finally diagnosed Parkinson's disease after years of various neurological problems.  But as I understand it, if you don't show the characteristic tremors, the only way to be sure short of an autopsy, is if the meds help, and they never helped, imo.  They just said, you should see what he'd be like if he *didn't* take the meds. (So who wants to run that experiment!)  Doctors just shrugged off my B-12 suggestion, but it was probably too late at that point, anyway.  It seems like they prefer to look for zebras instead of horses.
> 
> My doctor, OTOH, is almost obsessive on B-12.  He thinks the guidelines for blood levels are too low for seniors, and wants me to get monthly injections.  It's near impossible to give an overdose, so why not try it.:shrug:  Although I must confess I haven't followed up on it like I should.




Just stick with a daily sub-lingual tablet of B12.  Seems to me that I read a study a few years ago that did a comparison of the efficacy of shots once a month versus daily sublingual and it was pretty even.  But you're right, sometimes you try things and then you wonder endlessly, ' do I really feel better or am I imagining it?'.

As for the pickle juice, when I have a cold or flu, I literally crave hot pickle pepper juice.   Little sips, swallowed slowly also seems to ease some of the sore throat discomfort.


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## Debby (Mar 29, 2015)

nwlady said:


> Sorry to hear of your daughter's issues Debby  Interesting, 4 years old is about the time my migraines started, it was before school I know.  When I got into school the teachers would move me to the front of the room because they thought I was having sight issues when I'd get a migraine (I was) but then I'd throw up and they'd send me home, or to the sick room.
> 
> I feel like something out of alignment, and would prefer a chiro.   Have to save up and see one  Thank you for all the info, and I so hope they find a way to help your girl, Denise




Your experience sounds a lot like Kims.  She missed so much school over the years because of migraines.  But you know what's interesting, she was telling me just the other day that she actually remembers those headaches with a strange sort of fondness!  I was really surprised and she explained that while they were awful painful, she remembers more how safe she felt in spite of them when I would tuck her into bed (after cleaning up the vomit) and then sit quietly by her side and stroke her forehead and put the cool cloth on her eyes and talk to her in a soft voice.  You just never know what a person will remember eh?

Anyway, I hope you can find some things to make you feel better.  Must be such a drag to have ongoing inexplicable issues.  Feel sorry for you dear.


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## Denise1952 (Mar 29, 2015)

That's what I am seeing in the articles I'm finding on B12 deficiency, especially in Seniors.  My body tells me yes, my foods are being digested as well, and also, the nervous system is the one that is acting up most.  I believe I do have a deficiency and it angers me that no one in 62 years has even suggested B12 deficiency.  At the same time, it's about the education ( or lack thereof) of our conventional doctors.  I know some doctors are actually quite with it when it comes to prevention, or alternative causes like deficiencies, but I have not been fortunate enough to ever come upon one.  The only time I've EVER been prescribed or told to take a supplement is my last visit to the cardio when they told me to take D3.  Fine, order it up because I can't afford to buy a lot of anything.  Well, we don't know if your insurance will pay for it, it did, but I had to call and ask the pharmacy, then they prescribed it.

Thanks everyone, I am feeling better just reading others know what I am talking about when it comes to supplements and the possibility of deficiencies denise


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## Denise1952 (Mar 29, 2015)

I remember that after the throwing up, I did feel a sense of relief, and usually, I could fall asleep.  What I remember most is the feeling of being "different" or odd because I'd tell someone I had a migraine and it was take 2 aspirin.  A migraine isn't a head "ache", it's actual head pain, I'm sure you and your girl know that, thank god for people that understand.  I miss the comfort my mother was able to give me, yes, and my brother Ron, that was the cop all his life.  I remember staying with him and his wife for a time, and I went to a friends to play, and got a migraine.  My brother came right over and took me home, got me comfy, and a cold rag.  He was so good to me.  I remember a comforting, bubbling fish-tank in the spare room.  Lot's of good memories, need to focus on those thanks Debby


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## Denise1952 (Mar 29, 2015)

I have constant tremors in my head, and hands.  The anti-depressant makes them worse, but at least it isn't the "inside" sickie jittery feeling, it just outside, and the only thing I had to get over was my vanity, feeling embarrassed when trying to pick up a fork-full of food and practically missing my mouth.  They have gotten that bad only at times, so I test out what I am eating or drinking that could make them worse.  Exercise helps a lot too, good nights sleep, things that lower stress, help the shakes too.


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