# Shooting of Breonna Taylor, and the "no knock" procedure, plus "stand your ground".



## fuzzybuddy (Sep 23, 2020)

Breonna Taylor was a EMT. She was shot to death by police. They were executing a "no knock" search warrant for her boy friend. That means they could barge into her apartment. Her boy friend and police fired many rounds, and Miss Taylor was shot multiple times. This whole event is one bucket of worms. The police wore plain clothes. Their search warrant had multiple  issues with its legality. Upon entering the apartment, Kenneth Walker, who claimed to fear a break in, and was licensed to carry a fire arm, shot at the police. No drugs what so ever were found in the apartment. The police claimed that they knocked and announced themselves, before they entered the apartment. Walker and 11 others claimed they didn't.
Personally, this is another incidence of a poorly trained, and disciplined police dept. There are so many issues about the questionable basis for,  and the legality of the warrant, plus  its execution. Was Mr. Walker "standing his ground" from a home invasion? And how do you justify killing an unarmed person, with multiple bullets,  for a "search warrant".


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

Here is what's going on in our country. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/police-wellness-checks-deaths-indigenous-black-1.5622320

My opinion of what's going on? We have trigger-happy individuals who have no care, no remorse, and no qualms taking a human life needlessly, otherwise this sort of *NONSENSE* wouldn't be happening, and my tolerance for it is *ZERO!*


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

The SYG law in the USofA, both dear husband and I just shake our heads.

I mean is there anything more asinine?


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

Here is a snowflake story you're sure to remember for a long time to come!

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinio...uns+points+cultural+divide/7054368/story.html


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## Judycat (Sep 23, 2020)

I can see how Rambo mixing it up with the Robocop no knock warrant, can get innocent people killed, but hey, what do I know.


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## rgp (Sep 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> The SYG law in the USofA, both dear husband and I just shake our heads.
> 
> I mean is there anything more asinine?




  Well, since you do not live here in the USofA , your asinine opinion does not matter to myself, and indeed many others of us.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

A little off-colour language at the start, otherwise well worth the watch and listen.






Kudos to the gentleman who posted this video!


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

The comments on this video say it all.


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## 911 (Sep 23, 2020)

Are you able to broaden your explanation of this comment? I am puzzled by the wording. Thank you. 

* There are so many issues about the questionable basis for, and the legality of the warrant, plus its execution.  *


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## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> The SYG law in the USofA, both dear husband and I just shake our heads.
> 
> I mean is there anything more asinine?


First of all, and just to show how misinformed you are, SYG laws are state level. Not every state has them. 

And to your second question, yes, there is something far more asinine. Being unable to defend yourself, your family, and others against an attacker. You may find that acceptable there in the great white north, I do not.


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## Gaer (Sep 23, 2020)

Fuzzybuddy, Are you not going to await the justice system's procedure and stand by their conclusion?  Just yell guillotine?
You are now trying to incite others to your way of thinking?  
I hope all involved in deciding their fate will use thinking from other than the lower functions of the mind.  It's not our judgement. IMO.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

Fuzzy

An update on the Breonna Taylor case.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...n-breonna-taylor-death/ar-BB19lKSP?ocid=ientp


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## 911 (Sep 23, 2020)

Like usually is the case, little bits of information are coming out, but slowly. I was surprised that the city gave the family $12,000,000.00 and the fact that this was settle in about 6 months.

I heard on the news that one Officer was charged with "Wanton Endangerment." Which means something like the officer had no regards for loss of life by using malicious use of force.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

911 said:


> Like usually is the case, little bits of information are coming out, but slowly. I was surprised that the city gave the family $12,000,000.00 and the fact that this was settle in about 6 months.
> 
> *I heard on the news that one Officer was charged with "Wanton Endangerment." Which means something like the officer had no regards for loss of life by using malicious use of force.*


I would say that confirms everything I already know these days.

Overly carefree and remiss.

Human life sure has become disposable, hasn't it?


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## macgeek (Sep 23, 2020)

here is one guys view which I tend to side with. If you're choosing to hang around criminals, bad things may happen.

we have some "drug addicts" near where I live, police are always here looking for them...  I choose not to associate with those type of people because they're almost always up to no good (they often steal, lie, bum money, and they don't work and frankly can't be trusted).

What happened to personal responsibility in the choices we make?

I cant say if the officers did something wrong I was not there and our biased media cant be trusted to tell the facts.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 23, 2020)

911 said:


> Are you able to broaden your explanation of this comment? I am puzzled by the wording. Thank you.
> 
> * There are so many issues about the questionable basis for, and the legality of the warrant, plus its execution.  *


From reports, the original warrant was obtained on questionable evidence. And at the time of the execution of the warrant, it was not a "no knock" warrant. The "no knock" warrant had be rescinded. 11 witnesses, and Mr. Walker claim that the police entered the apartment without knocking.


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## 911 (Sep 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> I would say that confirms everything I already know these days.
> 
> Overly carefree and remiss.





fuzzybuddy said:


> From reports, the original warrant was obtained on questionable evidence. And at the time of the execution of the warrant, it was not a "no knock" warrant. The "no knock" warrant had be rescinded. 11 witnesses, and Mr. Walker claim that the police entered the apartment without knocking.


Are you able to verify this information? I cannot find anything that states the warrant was rescinded. This may have been on a social media site just to raise the ire of the mobs.


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## 911 (Sep 23, 2020)

Here in PA, if a defense attorney wants to have a warrant recalled, there is generally a short hearing before the Judge that issued the original warrant. After hearing both sides, the Judge will render his decision before adjournment. It's a process and it's highly unlikely that an Officer would even attempt to serve the warrant knowing that he could be charged with Disobeying a Court Order.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 23, 2020)

To me, this episode again points to a poorly trained police force with little oversight. OJT just can't produce the level of professionalism we need in a police force.  We need people with degrees in police works, and to be paid as  professionals.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

macgeek said:


> here is one guys view which I tend to side with. If you're choosing to hang around criminals, bad things may happen.
> 
> we have some "drug addicts" near where I live, police are always here looking for them...  I choose not to associate with those type of people because they're almost always up to no good (they often steal, lie, bum money, and they don't work and frankly can't be trusted).
> 
> ...


Deon, is shaping up to make for a mighty-fine policeman one day, or a great legal defence team member when representing the "good guys" of these types of heinous wrongdoings.

I'm surprised Deon, stopped at what he did in his bubble of thoughts. If only he had added, if Breonna Taylor, wasn't born, this whole thing wouldn't have happened.

At least it would have concluded and confirmed to all, that no matter how wrong search orders go, they'll always be a following of people in society that will support those wrongs no matter what.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 23, 2020)

According to the New York Times, "While the department had gotten court approval for a 'no-knock' entry, the orders were changed before the raid to 'knock and announce,' meaning that the police had to identify themselves.
_The New York Times_. ISSN 0362-4331. Archived from the original on September 17, 2020. Retrieved September 18, 2020.


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## win231 (Sep 23, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> Fuzzy
> 
> An update on the Breonna Taylor case.
> 
> http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...n-breonna-taylor-death/ar-BB19lKSP?ocid=ientp


And even that one cop was not charged with Ms. Taylor's death.  He was charged with "Wanton Endangerment" because he also fired into a neighbor's apartment in his haste to empty his gun.  He has nothing to worry about legally, except maybe being placed on probation.
And people have every right to be outraged.
As I've said before, there is a different system of justice for thug cops.

The officer's attorney:  _"Your Honor, We're fighting this terrible war on drugs....we thought they were drug dealers.....we have to get tough on drugs....we had to bust in without announcing who we were.....we needed the element of surprise........it's not my client's fault that we had the wrong address......my client is a hero......"_


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

win231 said:


> And even that one cop was not charged with Ms. Taylor's death.  He was charged with "Wanton Endangerment" because he also fired into a neighbor's apartment in his haste to empty his gun.  He has nothing to worry about legally, except maybe being placed on probation.
> And people have every right to be outraged.
> *As I've said before, there is a different system of justice for thug cops*.


I couldn't agree more with you, Win.


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## gennie (Sep 23, 2020)

Choosing poorly in the romance department should have repercussions or even penalties but death should not be one of them.


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## 911 (Sep 23, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> According to the New York Times, "While the department had gotten court approval for a 'no-knock' entry, the orders were changed before the raid to 'knock and announce,' meaning that the police had to identify themselves.
> _The New York Times_. ISSN 0362-4331. Archived from the original on September 17, 2020. Retrieved September 18, 2020.


OK, I found this in the archived article:

*"While the department had gotten court approval for a “no-knock” entry, the orders were changed before the raid to “knock and announce,” meaning that the police had to identify themselves." *

There is at least one witness who claims to have heard the police knock and announce. Ms. Taylor's boyfriend denies hearing the announcement.

I can only say that had her boyfriend not shot first, the police may not have returned fire and everyone would still be OK. However, when you find yourself in that position, you're probably going to return fire, so that you and your fellow officers can safely retreat. Remember, they had an injured officer that could barely move, so they had to do something to give themselves time to withdraw. I am not defending them, but I really don't know what I would have done and it's not my job to denounce their actions, seeing as how I was not involved. I am sure that it was a scar situation for everyone involved.

To this day, I am still mystified as to how she took 8 bullets and her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, never took even 1. One statement that I read from a friend of Mr. Walker's stated to the media that Mr. Walker may have used Ms. Taylor as a human shield.

Moving past this thread for a moment, I am going to state that I am looking forward to the trials for the people that have been shot this summer and/or the dispositions of such. We should all be interested and be aware of these happenings, but not judgmental. Let the trials play out and let's see where the evidence takes us before we make our own decisions before passing judgment.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

911 said:


> OK, I found this in the archived article:
> 
> *"While the department had gotten court approval for a “no-knock” entry, the orders were changed before the raid to “knock and announce,” meaning that the police had to identify themselves." *
> 
> ...


Therein lies the problem.

There is no true justice system, it's broken, that's why this sort of thing keeps on happening again and again, hence the general publics prejudgment on cases such as this. People (for the most part) have lost their faith and trust in the "system".


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## Gaer (Sep 23, 2020)

From what I understand from OTHER THAN THE NEW YORK TIMES, it was a lawful warrant, they DID knock and  identify themselves before entering.


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## Irwin (Sep 23, 2020)

Some things I wonder about in this case...

Why were the police executing a search warrant dressed in plain clothes? It's not like it was an undercover operation. WTF?
Why weren't they all wearing body cameras in a situation with a high potential for violence? Doing so would have removed all ambiguity in this case. We'd know who said what and who fired first.
Why do the police keep making the same mistakes over and over and over?...


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## win231 (Sep 23, 2020)

911 said:


> Like usually is the case, little bits of information are coming out, but slowly. I was surprised that the city gave the family $12,000,000.00 and the fact that this was settle in about 6 months.
> 
> I heard on the news that one Officer was charged with "Wanton Endangerment." Which means something like the officer had no regards for loss of life by using malicious use of force.


Yes.  Heaven forbid the city compensate the family just because a group of heroes murdered their loved one.


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## Nathan (Sep 23, 2020)

911 said:


> ....the city gave the family $12,000,000.00 and the fact that this was settle in about 6 months.


Pretty much shows that the city was on shaky ground, and would be cheaper to settle and put the matter to rest.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 23, 2020)

A woman is dead. Her door is bashed in. And outside of her apartment, a police officer shot blindly into the apartment complex 8 times, and even sending bullets into a neighboring apartment. And some say, that's just too bad. And, oh, BTW, the police have no direct evidence that Miss Taylor, nor Mr. Kenneth Walker had anything to do with any illegal drugs. There were absolutely no illegal drugs found in Miss Taylor's apartment.  And nobody thinks, we need to improve things.


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## jerry old (Sep 23, 2020)

Give it a rest


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Sep 23, 2020)

People of color in the USA almost never get any justice. Nothing has changed on that in decades. Police are allowed to do whatever they want and can avoid any penalties by simply using the excuse that they feared for life. So all that is left for victim families is to sue for the largest settlement possible. Taxpayers don't mind handing over their money to protect their cops. Cops are sacred.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2020)

Gaer said:


> From what I understand from OTHER THAN THE NEW YORK TIMES, it was a lawful warrant, they DID knock and  identify themselves before entering.


If someone knocked on my door in the middle of the night I might not hear them.  So if they came charging in to me it would be unlawful.  I don't care what the law says.  This needs to change.  This woman is dead.  Dead.


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## FastTrax (Sep 23, 2020)

An AMTRAK cop once told me that there can be 2 sides to a story and then there is the truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Breonna_Taylor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant


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## win231 (Sep 23, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> A woman is dead. Her door is bashed in. And outside of her apartment, a police officer shot blindly into the apartment complex 8 times, and even sending bullets into a neighboring apartment. And some say, that's just too bad. And, oh, BTW, the police have no direct evidence that Miss Taylor, nor Mr. Kenneth Walker had anything to do with any illegal drugs. There were absolutely no illegal drugs found in Miss Taylor's apartment.  And nobody thinks, we need to improve things.


Yes, and it's no surprise that police are doing what they always do when they screw up:  Try to trash the victims to make their screw up seem justifiable.  A previous article said "Police are investigating the strong possibility that Ms. Taylor was "Living with a drug dealer."
I'm reminded of the same thing after the Rodney King beating (where police officers bragged that they _"Hit a few home runs that night" _and
_"This whole neighborhood is like Gorillas in the Mist"_ - referring to black people.)
Police went on & on about Rodney King's criminal record - as if that justified what they did - which was worse than anything he did.


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## win231 (Sep 23, 2020)

jerry old said:


> Give it a rest


Who is forcing you to read or participate??


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

jerry old said:


> Give it a rest


Giving it a rest, Jerry, that's why we're witnessing what we're witnessing today, society has been sleeping on the job for too long.

For too long now, the general public has been looking the other way, pretending they see nothing, pretending they know nothing, pretending they hear nothing, pretending everything is okay, harvesting absolute trust in the police, siding with the police, and pretending that the justice system is there for them and will remedy all.

All of this pretending has gotten us nowhere, but rather, it's set the stage for further corrupt and abusive behaviour along the way, we see it in the defunct, unprincipled, and crooked manner in which today's court system operates. 

Authority is just like the common petty criminal, it starts off small, then as authority recognizes that no one is there to watch them, to call them out on their behaviour, to rein them in, or to punish them, their delinquent behaviour intensifies, with them reaching for more, and more, and more.

They push it just enough, tip-toing right on the edge to maintain and preserve general public trust, and being as gullible as the general public is, the criminal presses on, and before long we are left with the broken, embarrassing, and pathetic justice system we have in place today.

"Giving it a rest" is not the answer, just as allowing a school-yard bully to carry-on abusing and bullying others is not the answer.


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## Keesha (Sep 23, 2020)

If these people were so guilty why award a $12,000,000.00 settlement? It doesn’t make sense. 

Note: it’s a surprise visit by plain clothes officers  (12 people didn’t hear a knock ) yet no drugs were found and the warrant is said to be questionable. 

If this was a surprise visit by plain clothed men, then it shouldn’t be a surprise that these plain clothed officers got shot at

All Americans I know have boldly and proudly stated that if anyone breaks into their home, they shoot them. Why is this so different? How was the home owner to know these were police officers breaking in? 

Shouldn’t rules be the same for everyone across the board?  I’m trying to understand this but just can’t.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2020)

My question is, if a white woman was shot and killed, would the cops have been charged with murder or manslaughter?  I bet they would have.


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## Irwin (Sep 23, 2020)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> People of color in the USA almost never get any justice. Nothing has changed on that in decades. Police are allowed to do whatever they want and can avoid any penalties by simply using the excuse that they feared for life. So all that is left for victim families is to sue for the largest settlement possible. Taxpayers don't mind handing over their money to protect their cops. Cops are sacred.



Speak for yourself. I mind a great deal that we have to pay out these settlements because of bad cops who almost never get punished, other than maybe a little slap on the wrist. Thanks to the police unions, the police are above the law. Protesters should go after the police unions because they're a big part of the problem.


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## jerry old (Sep 23, 2020)

After 20 post any thread becomes redundant.
In this case, I prefer the post of those that have experience in this area..
If the posting continues they will become mere  yammering.
In time, all the information will become available.  


My opinion is as without merit until all the facts are released.

No unarmed  civilian, not involved in criminal behavior in their own home, or anywhere else not be shot, much less killed. should be killed 
Cops on any raid are filled with adrenaline. 
If a shot is fired, they will spray  the site with their return fire.
There is more to this event: we do not know all the facts. 

When we know when the shot was fired-then we can form a creditable opinion.
Honestly,  win231.!  I have experience in the drug trade-do you?

I had no intention of posting my opinion until your challenge, it too is redundant.

I think a PM of your and others would have been more appropriate.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

Phoenix said:


> My question is, if a white woman was shot and killed, would the cops have been charged with murder or manslaughter?  I bet they would have.


Sadly, I don't hold a lot of faith in such.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 23, 2020)

jerry old said:


> After 20 post any thread becomes redundant.
> In this case, I prefer the post of those that have experience in this area..
> If the posting continues they will become mere  yammering.
> In time, all the information will become available.
> ...


You seem so angry, Jerry.


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## jerry old (Sep 23, 2020)

Aunt  Marg
You posted a legitimate and meaningful post.
I appreciate your reasoning.  
Thanks 

I do not care for censure wherein no reason given.


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## win231 (Sep 23, 2020)

jerry old said:


> After 20 post any thread becomes redundant.
> In this case, I prefer the post of those that have experience in this area..
> If the posting continues they will become mere  yammering.
> In time, all the information will become available.
> ...


Your "Experience in the drug trade" is completely irrelevant to the issue.  But, if your experience includes work in law enforcement, it would certainly explain why you don't like this discussion.
And, honestly, (as I said before), no one is forcing you to read or participate in any thread you don't like.


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## Keesha (Sep 23, 2020)

Is there any way to block ‘current news’ so I don’t see all these threads about people getting unfairly shot and killed? I find it very disturbing and don’t wish to get involved yet do.


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## FastTrax (Sep 23, 2020)

If I may intercede here folks. This last annum has been very trying for everyone even here at "Senior forums" not to mention the global pandemic that has literally turned America on it's head. We are now experiencing what other countries have had to endure involving epidemics, pandemics and a whole host of other life changing political, socioeconomic, criminal justice, religious and terrorist related issues that a great majority of us here just cannot wrap our heads around and that in itself is psychologically debilitating. It's called FUTURE SHOCK. The world is literally going to HELL with itself. Americas historic shame and disgrace involving our police killing people of color has not escalated or even something new. What has changed is the 2 decades old militarization of our police forces. Urban warfare training. Military surplus vehicles in mobile patrol fleets and military grade tactical weapons, etc, etc, etc. Thanks to media technology including forced transparency in police/media disclosure including the Sunshine policy what was once hidden has now come to light and ever increasing media and more so public scrutiny.  I'm not going to lower myself by excoriating all law enforcement agencies because in my 50 year career I've crossed paths with many fine officers from Penn-Central RR Police Department, Conrail Police Department, AMTRAK Police Department, MTA-Eastern & Northern District Police Department, NYNJPA/PATHPD, NJT Police Department, NYPD, NYSP, NJSP, PSP, MSP, VSP, SEPTA, MARC. Did I forget anybody? They all had very hard jobs and they were all very fine officers and I commend them for their hard work and dedication. For the life of me I could not and would not want their jobs. I could not fathom putting on a uniform, gun and badge and going out in the street for 8 long grueling hours every day knowing that there were actually people out in the street for whatever reason they have waiting to kill me for the next 20 years. So let's pray to GOD that we can get together and make things right if we want to survive as a race. Not the White, Black or whatever race. The human race. Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, let his death for our salvation not be in vain. GOD Bless.


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## Keesha (Sep 23, 2020)

FastTrax said:


> If I may intercede here folks. This last annum has been very trying for everyone even here at "Senior forums" not to mention the global pandemic that has literally turned America on it's head. We are now experiencing what other countries have had to endure involving epidemics, pandemics and a whole host of other life changing political, socioeconomic, criminal justice, religious and terrorist related issues that a great majority of us here just cannot wrap our heads around and that in itself is psychologically debilitating. It's called FUTURE SHOCK. The world is literally going to HELL with itself. Americas historic shame and disgrace involving our police killing people of color has not escalated or even something new. What has changed is the 2 decades old militarization of our police forces. Urban warfare training. Military surplus vehicles in mobile patrol fleets and military grade tactical weapons, etc, etc, etc. Thanks to media technology including forced transparency in police/media disclosure including the Sunshine policy what was once hidden has now come to light and ever increasing media and more so public scrutiny.  I'm not going to lower myself by excoriating all law enforcement agencies because in my 50 year career I've crossed paths with many fine officers from Penn-Central RR Police Department, Conrail Police Department, AMTRAK Police Department, MTA-Eastern & Northern District Police Department, NYNJPA/PATHPD, NJT Police Department, NYPD, NYSP, NJSP, PSP, MSP, VSP, SEPTA, MARC. Did I forget anybody? They all had very hard jobs and they were all very fine officers and I commend them for their hard work and dedication. For the life of me I could not and would not want their jobs. I could not fathom putting on a uniform, gun and badge and going out in the street for 8 long grueling hours every day knowing that there were actually people out in the street for whatever reason they have waiting to kill me for the next 20 years. So let's pray to GOD that we can get together and make things right if we want to survive as a race. Not the White, Black or whatever race. The human race. Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, let his death for our salvation not be in vain. GOD Bless.


That’s a great post FastTrax. You summarized that so well.


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## Ellen Marie (Sep 23, 2020)

Two police officers were shot tonite in Louisville....  a curfew was set for 9:00 pm, which was not followed by the protestors.......two wrongs don't make a right..... but lawlessness......is not the answer.


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## rgp (Sep 24, 2020)

Ellen Marie said:


> Two police officers were shot tonite in Louisville....  a curfew was set for 9:00 pm, which was not followed by the protestors.......two wrongs don't make a right..... but lawlessness......is not the answer.




   Sure, they [rioters] didn't get the result they wanted, from the system we have in place, so hit the street , burn it down. 

 They're too damn lazy to get up of their asses and campaign for actual change that they might see as necessary.  But they have plenty of energy to riot , loot & burn.........Do they really think they will, should be taken seriously?


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## DaveA (Sep 24, 2020)

A portion of 911's statement was;  "I can only say that had her boyfriend not shot first, the police may not have returned fire and everyone would still be OK. " 

That makes sense but are you also saying to our gun-happy home defenders that when someone barges through the door into their living room, un-announced,  gun in hand, they should wait for the first shot to be fired, or politely ask who these people are and what are they about?

We can't have it both ways and do these "home defenders" actually sit watching the TV with gun in hand, just in case?  That scenario would be really pathetic.


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## Camper6 (Sep 24, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> The SYG law in the USofA, both dear husband and I just shake our heads.
> 
> I mean is there anything more asinine?


Not every state has 'stand your ground' laws.


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## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 24, 2020)

The parts that many want to continue to ignore, for all of the BS that has been pushed, here is the truth as determined by a grand jury:

It was not a no-knock warrant, and witnesses corroborated the fact that they did in fact knock and announce.
It was NOT the wrong house.
The warrant was for the boyfriend, who was wanted for attempted murder for shooting at the police during an attempted drug bust.
Drugs being in the apartment or not had ZERO to do with it, it was not a drug raid, it was an arrest warrant.
The boyfriend fired first.
Only one officer initially entered, he was shot immediately.

And think about this one, please: Somehow Brianna ended up with multiple gunshot wounds, while the boyfriend had none. I have an idea how that happens, but won't speculate out loud, there is far too much speculation already.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 24, 2020)

I find there are some things about this case that seem odd. The police claim that they knocked on the door and announced themselves. If we take that as fact, then when Mr. Walker opened fire on them ,and shot one; it was with the knowledge of who they were. Then he would have been guilty of what, attempted murder? Are there laws about intentionally shooting a policeman? Yet, all charges were dropped?  Even if Miss Taylor was somehow involved with illegal drugs, even the police admit; it was in the secondary role of  probably keeping  someone else's stash in her home.  (There were no illegal drugs whatsoever found in her home.)  Since her death, if there was any evidence of any criminal activity, it would surely have been leaked by the police.  And there's nothing. Yet , police were able to obtain a "no knock" search warrant, where they could bash down the door in the middle of the night, and terrorize her by entering her home, in plain clothes with guns drawn. That seems like a high price to pay for  the war on drugs.  Have we gone over the edge in trying to stop illegal drugs?  Yes. those involved with illegal drugs can be vile, dangerous, inhuman predator's, but I don't believe we need to create a like minded police force.  Again, this goes to how poorly trained, and unprofessional some police forces are. Call me old fashion, but I don't think executing a search warrant should need not a causality report.


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## 911 (Sep 24, 2020)

Just to set the record straight and maybe to educate some of you that care about such things, there is a reason why police do "knock-downs" after midnight. Actually, seeing that these cops waited until just after midnight to serve the warrants seemed a little early to me, but to each his own. Most knock-downs are done around 3-4 in the morning. Why? Because most people, including drug dealers, murders, etc. are either in bed or wasted. Doing a knock-down at that time gives the Officers an advantage. So, for those of you that wrote that you would assume someone coming into your door at such an early hour was a home invasion and you would come out shooting, good luck with that. However, it has been reported that Senator Rand Paul (Rep., Kentucky) is seeking to have the No-Knock warrant law removed from the books. It will be called, "Breonna's Law." 

There are now sworn affidavits stating that the cops did knock and announce. We have no-knock warrants here in PA, which the Assembly is attempting to have outlawed. Personally, I hope it passes. They are dangerous for both parties. 

I really don't have much more to add to what has already been stated above. The list of items below are either an opinion or a fact that has been reported as such. (Unless marked as being verified, it has not been.)  
1. If there had not been any other issues going on in the U.S. at the time of Ms. Taylor's shooting, I doubt if the Grand Jury would have returned any indictments in this case, This was done only in the hopes that it may appease the mobs, which it didn't. (Opinion)

2. Because the Officers were fired on first, they were within their rights to return fire, open door or closed door. (I don't know exactly what the law is in Kentucky.) Bad decision doesn't make it illegal. This will be a tough case for the D.A., especially if there is a change of venue granted. 

3. The Officers had a total of 4 warrants in hand. Ms. Taylor's name was on those warrants. (fact)

4. Ms. Taylor was found driving a rental car with a dead body in it, which could not be explained, so no one has been charged as of now. Her ex-boyfriend, Jamarcus Glover, also used the car, so the suspicion of the dead body lies with him being involved. (fact)

5. Ms. Taylor's ex-boyfriend was a known drug dealer and the police did have warrants for him also. They tied Ms. Taylor to Glover through surveillance videos that show them in Glover's home on numerous occasions. (As of now, I have not been able to substantiate this info.) 

Just trying to keep it real. 

Stay Well!


----------



## Pepper (Sep 24, 2020)

@911 
Your #s 3 & 4 have the word 'fact' after them.  May I have a link for them, please?  Just trying to keep it real.


----------



## Keesha (Sep 24, 2020)

911 said:


> Just to set the record straight and maybe to educate some of you that care about such things, there is a reason why police do "knock-downs" after midnight. Actually, seeing that these cops waited until just after midnight to serve the warrants seemed a little early to me, but to each his own. Most knock-downs are done around 3-4 in the morning. Why? Because most people, including drug dealers, murders, etc. are either in bed or wasted. Doing a knock-down at that time gives the Officers an advantage. So, for those of you that wrote that you would assume someone coming into your door at such an early hour was a home invasion and you would come out shooting, good luck with that. However, it has been reported that Senator Rand Paul (Rep., Kentucky) is seeking to have the No-Knock warrant law removed from the books. It will be called, "Breonna's Law."
> 
> There are now sworn affidavits stating that the cops did knock and announce. We have no-knock warrants here in PA, which the Assembly is attempting to have outlawed. Personally, I hope it passes. They are dangerous for both parties.
> 
> ...


So why was the family granted $12,000,000.00?
That’s a LOT of zeros. Just keeping it real!


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## 911 (Sep 24, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @911
> Your #s 3 & 4 have the word 'fact' after them.  May I have a link for them, please?  Just trying to keep it real.


#3–Warrants
#4–Rental Car & More

I didn’t want to post #4 because it may appear that I am attempting to muddy Ms. Taylor’s name, which was (is) not my intent at all. In that court report, you may learn other things that you were not aware of.


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## Pepper (Sep 24, 2020)

@911 
Thank you.  It is appreciated.
Questions:

Your number 3 "The Officers had a total of 4 warrants in hand. Ms. Taylor's name was on those warrants"  
Didn't the warrant pertain to her apartment and not her, precisely?  I admit, didn't want to read the whole thing, sorry. 

Your number 4 "4. Ms. Taylor was found driving a rental car with a dead body in it ..."
from your source "in December that year, she let him borrow a car she rented. The next day, the body of Fernandez “Rambo” Bowman, 27, was found inside the vehicle. When police came to interview Taylor about it ..."
The source does not say anything about her being at the wheel when the body was discovered.


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## 911 (Sep 24, 2020)

Keesha said:


> So why was the family granted $12,000,000.00?
> That’s a LOT of zeros. Just keeping it real!


You have to realize who the family’s attorney is. Ben Crump is a notorious, energetic go-getter on these types of cases. It was in the best interest of Louisville to settle this case for the amount that it did and have it done with. The city did want this case settled ASAP. Their thinking was that they could smooze the masses with a fat settlement. The police union and the D.A. wanted to wait until the entire investigation was completed, but the Mayor and council wanted it done and over with. So-be-it. How did that thinking work out for Louisville? 

Settlement


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## 911 (Sep 24, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @911
> Thank you.  It is appreciated.
> Questions:
> 
> ...


Pepper, you ask some very good questions. Were you in law enforcement?

#3—I really can’t tell you what was in the warrant without reading it. From what I have read, those were just search warrants. 
#4–That’s right. As I stated in my initial post, no one was charged because there was no evidence of who did what. Once the police knew that Glover used the car, suspicion fell on him.

I know this is going to sound like I am strictly trying to defend the police, but in this case, I don’t think the cops did any wrong. It’s like one of the lawyers who was interviewed, but not involved in the case stated, “If you hang around with thugs, bad things can happen.”

Once Mr.Walker fired the first shot, they had every right to defend themselves. Having and using bad judgment is not a crime. I was kind of surprised that the one officer was indicted. Again, I think this was done to appease the citizens. They should have known better.


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## Keesha (Sep 24, 2020)

911 said:


> You have to realize who the family’s attorney is. Ben Crump is a notorious, energetic go-getter on these types of cases. It was in the best interest of Louisville to settle this case for the amount that it did and have it done with. The city did want this case settled ASAP. Their thinking was that they could smooze the masses with a fat settlement. The police union and the D.A. wanted to wait until the entire investigation was completed, but the Mayor and council wanted it done and over with. So-be-it. How did that thinking work out for Louisville?
> 
> Settlement


Thank you. 
And the short answer.... they were guilty. 
Nobody gets awarded that kind of money just to settle the crowds. 


911 said:


> I know this is going to sound like I am strictly trying to defend the police, but in this case, I don’t think the cops did any wrong.


 Sorry 911. Yes it does. I’m no longer surprised why there so much turmoil.


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Thank you.
> And the short answer.... they were guilty.
> Nobody gets awarded that kind of money just to settle the crowds.
> Sorry 911. Yes it does. I’m no longer surprised why there so much turmoil.


I'm not surprised either.  And I won't be surprised if more cops are ambushed.


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2020)

911 said:


> You have to realize who the family’s attorney is. Ben Crump is a notorious, energetic go-getter on these types of cases. It was in the best interest of Louisville to settle this case for the amount that it did and have it done with. The city did want this case settled ASAP. Their thinking was that they could smooze the masses with a fat settlement. The police union and the D.A. wanted to wait until the entire investigation was completed, but the Mayor and council wanted it done and over with. So-be-it. How did that thinking work out for Louisville?
> 
> Settlement


Yeah.  It's all that damn attorney's fault.  Police did nothing wrong.
Except for that minor error - killing an innocent person.


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## Nathan (Sep 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> I'm reminded of the same thing after the Rodney King beating (where police officers bragged that they _"Hit a few home runs that night" _and
> _"This whole neighborhood is like Gorillas in the Mist"_ - referring to black people.)
> Police went on & on about Rodney King's criminal record - as if that justified what they did - which was worse than anything he did.



After the L.A. incident Rodney King became a local resident in neighboring San Bernardino County.   He was a "frequent flyer" in our facilities for minor substance abuse matters; I don't recall if he had done prison time, but he just was a big _like-to-party _kind of guy. He resided in my[at the time] home town of Rialto, Calif., was found to have drowned in a pool(2012) at his residence. Alcohol, cocaine, and  PCP _may have_ been a contributing factor.


----------



## Keesha (Sep 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> I'm not surprised either.  And I won't be surprised if more cops are ambushed.


Unfortunately neither will I.


----------



## win231 (Sep 24, 2020)

Keesha said:


> If these people were so guilty why award a $12,000,000.00 settlement? It doesn’t make sense.
> 
> Note: it’s a surprise visit by plain clothes officers  (12 people didn’t hear a knock ) yet no drugs were found and the warrant is said to be questionable.
> 
> ...


The settlement was awarded for the same reason a criminal pleads guilty to a lessor charge with a shorter sentence, rather than go to trial & risk being convicted of the more-serious crime, with a longer sentence.


----------



## Ceege (Sep 24, 2020)

So many of these shootings  just  make  no  sense.  I've wondered over the years if it could be because of steroid use leading to 'roidrage'.  We need to start testing our police for steroid use. 

Police are using Steroids resulting in "Roid Rage" Why aren't police being tested for Steroids?
https://www.dailykos.com/story/2020...e-Why-aren-t-police-being-tested-for-Steroids


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## Keesha (Sep 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> The settlement was awarded for the same reason a criminal pleads guilty to a lessor charge with a shorter sentence, rather than go to trial & risk being convicted of the more-serious crime, with a longer sentence.


Luckily they all have a union to protect them.


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2020)

Nathan said:


> After the L.A. incident Rodney King became a local resident in neighboring San Bernardino County.   He was a "frequent flyer" in our facilities for minor substance abuse matters; I don't recall if he had done prison time, but he just was a big _like-to-party _kind of guy. He resided in my[at the time] home town of Rialto, Calif., was found to have drowned in a pool(2012) at his residence. Alcohol, cocaine, and  PCP _may have_ been a contributing factor.


Yes, no question he was an alcoholic, drug addict & criminal.  He had two previous felony convictions before the incident.
Which is precisely why police should have just arrested him.  As a 3rd-strike felon, he would probably have received a 20-year sentence.
Instead, because of four moron cops, he became a millionaire - the settlement from the city was 3.8 million.
"Crime doesn't pay?"


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## Nathan (Sep 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> "Crime doesn't pay?"


Well it does if you have an attorney like Johnny Cochran.


----------



## win231 (Sep 24, 2020)

Nathan said:


> Well it does if you have an attorney like Johnny Cochran.


Johnny Cochran's successful defenses are mostly due to police racism & incompetence - which O.J. is eternally grateful for.  He just knew how to use what already existed.


----------



## Nathan (Sep 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> Johnny Cochran's successful defenses are mostly due to police racism & incompetence - which O.J. is eternally grateful for.  He just knew how to use what already existed.


I don't think that LAPD's handling of the murder investigation was particularly touched by any racism, one detective-Mark Fuhrman had made some racists remarks 10 years prior, but that didn't have any bearing on O.J's case.   Incompetence?  One thing that stood out was poor documentation of the chain of custody, in regards to the handling of physical evidence.    Johnnie Cochran was superior at detecting weak points in a case, and he was all over that, in a heartbeat.   All local police agencies quickly learned from that, and tightened up their policies on evidence collecting & handling.


----------



## Aunt Marg (Sep 24, 2020)

win231 said:


> I'm not surprised either.  And I won't be surprised if more cops are ambushed.


I won't be surprised either.


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 24, 2020)

Ceege said:


> So many of these shootings  just  make  no  sense.  I've wondered over the years if it could be because of steroid use leading to 'roidrage'.  We need to start testing our police for steroid use.
> 
> Police are using Steroids resulting in "Roid Rage" Why aren't police being tested for Steroids?
> https://www.dailykos.com/story/2020...e-Why-aren-t-police-being-tested-for-Steroids


Who wrote this? It seems it was introduced to this website by one Lefty Coaster, being written by a Shaun King, who wrote it in 2016. Look up Shaun King.... LOL.


----------



## Pauline1954 (Sep 24, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> Breonna Taylor was a EMT. She was shot to death by police. They were executing a "no knock" search warrant for her boy friend. That means they could barge into her apartment. Her boy friend and police fired many rounds, and Miss Taylor was shot multiple times. This whole event is one bucket of worms. The police wore plain clothes. Their search warrant had multiple  issues with its legality. Upon entering the apartment, Kenneth Walker, who claimed to fear a break in, and was licensed to carry a fire arm, shot at the police. No drugs what so ever were found in the apartment. The police claimed that they knocked and announced themselves, before they entered the apartment. Walker and 11 others claimed they didn't.
> Personally, this is another incidence of a poorly trained, and disciplined police dept. There are so many issues about the questionable basis for,  and the legality of the warrant, plus  its execution. Was Mr. Walker "standing his ground" from a home invasion? And how do you justify killing an unarmed person, with multiple bullets,  for a "search warrant".



Here is supposed to be a true account of what happened.  There is a reason why they dont knock. Its to not give the persons on the other side of the door a chance to fire through the door. But in this case the boyfriend opened fired and then police responded with same.  

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/joedigenova-breonnataylor-louisville/2020/09/23/id/988500/


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## Pauline1954 (Sep 24, 2020)

911 said:


> OK, I found this in the archived article:
> 
> *"While the department had gotten court approval for a “no-knock” entry, the orders were changed before the raid to “knock and announce,” meaning that the police had to identify themselves." *
> 
> ...



The shots came through the door into the home, right?  It seems that he was responsible for the death of his girlfriend. If he did not get shot was he hunkering down or behind sometbing to shield him? I wonder. Either way I think he is the reason the girl was shot.  Which is so sad.


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## FastTrax (Sep 24, 2020)

Louisville Kentucky PD Live Audio

www.broadcastify.com/webPlayer/13853


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## Irwin (Sep 24, 2020)

Breonna Taylor did have criminal friends, at least one of whom was a known drug dealer who had a criminal record involving guns. So the police were no doubt anxious when they went to her apartment, expecting the worst. They said they announced they were police, but only for 45 seconds, and then they busted through the door. Breonna and her boyfriend had been asleep in the bedroom, so it might have taken them that long to wake up, and they might have been groggy and didn't fully comprehend what was going on.

Information has also come out about the rationale for the no-knock warrant that shows the police lied to get the warrant, but not necessarily the police who were on the scene. Whoever lied, should be held accountable.

I don't know. The police who were involved in the shooting were executing a no-nock warrant that was granted do to a lie, so do we hold them accountable? They probably overreacted, as they often do.

One thing is certain, though. All police need to be wearing cameras so we know exactly what happened.


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## win231 (Sep 25, 2020)

Pauline1954 said:


> Here is supposed to be a true account of what happened.  There is a reason why they dont knock. Its to not give the persons on the other side of the door a chance to fire through the door. But in this case the boyfriend opened fired and then police responded with same.
> 
> https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/joedigenova-breonnataylor-louisville/2020/09/23/id/988500/


I heard an interview with a cop who said the reason they don't knock & identify that they are police is so the people in the house won't have time to flush drugs down the toilet.


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## Ceege (Sep 25, 2020)

RadishRose said:


> Who wrote this? It seems it was introduced to this website by one Lefty Coaster, being written by a Shaun King, who wrote it in 2016. Look up Shaun King.... LOL.


The point is that steroids have been a problem for decades.  And when you see an officer doing something vicious when that viciousness wasn't called for, it really makes one wonder if drugs might play a part in it. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1309153779632287744


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## Keesha (Sep 25, 2020)

Irwin said:


> Breonna Taylor did have criminal friends, at least one of whom was a known drug dealer who had a criminal record involving guns. So the police were no doubt anxious when they went to her apartment, expecting the worst. They said they announced they were police, but only for 45 seconds, and then they busted through the door. Breonna and her boyfriend had been asleep in the bedroom, so it might have taken them that long to wake up, and they might have been groggy and didn't fully comprehend what was going on.
> 
> Information has also come out about the rationale for the no-knock warrant that shows the police lied to get the warrant, but not necessarily the police who were on the scene. Whoever lied, should be held accountable.
> 
> ...


Yes. The police were held accountable ( @ a civil level) since they didn’t want this going to court. It was that bad. That’s why the family got $12 million but they should still be charged for unlawful and  needless murder.


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## 911 (Sep 25, 2020)

Pauline1954 said:


> The shots came through the door into the home, right?  It seems that he was responsible for the death of his girlfriend. If he did not get shot was he hunkering down or behind something to shield him? I wonder. Either way I think he is the reason the girl was shot.  Which is so sad.


The theory behind this is that because Ms. Taylor received the number of shots that she did and Mr. Walker did not get hit is that he was using her as a human shield. Supposedly, that theory did not come from the police, but from a local TV station in the Louisville area. I did not confirm this report.


----------



## macgeek (Sep 25, 2020)

Ellen Marie said:


> Two police officers were shot tonite in Louisville....  a curfew was set for 9:00 pm, which was not followed by the protestors.......two wrongs don't make a right..... but lawlessness......is not the answer.



I agree, someone better tell BLM and Antifa.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 25, 2020)

First, it was not K. Walker, who shot Breonna; it was the police. They have to bare the responsibility of their actions. They were the ones, who initiated the events of that night. The fact that someone could be armed inside the apartment should have been a primary concern to them.
They failed to protect the occupants, as well as themselves in the execution of a search warrant. The entire matter from obtaining the first search warrant to the death of Miss Taylor was tainted by gross ineptness, deception, and fabrications.


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## 911 (Sep 25, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> First, it was not K. Walker, who shot Breonna; it was the police. They have to bare the responsibility of their actions. They were the ones, who initiated the events of that night. The fact that someone could be armed inside the apartment should have been a primary concern to them.
> They failed to protect the occupants, as well as themselves in the execution of a search warrant. The entire matter from obtaining the first search warrant to the death of Miss Taylor was tainted by gross ineptness, deception, and fabrications.


Really?? Well, what would you do if someone shot at you and struck your friend who was standing beside you? And, by the way, they did not "initiate the events of the night" as you put it. They were legally serving a warrant. Even by his own admission, Mr. Walker fired the first shot. I cannot believe the heat that Mr. Cameron, AG for Kentucky, is taking for not filing murder charges. He is just following the rule of law. If he filed a murder charge, he would have very little evidence with which to convict. Nothing the cops did were illegal "by law." Using poor judgment or making a bad choice is not against the law. 

And BTW, what you also wrote is ridiculous to the tenth power. I doubt if you have any idea as what all goes on prior to a knock-down. There is a lot of planning involved. No one just shows up at the door and kicks it in with guns blazing. This isn't a TV show or a video game. 
"The fact that someone could be armed inside the apartment should have been a primary concern to them. They failed to protect the occupants, as well as themselves in the execution of a search warrant." 

I also want to add that I do believe Mr. Walker when he stated that he didn't hear the police address themselves. However, that does not and should not not give him (or anyone else) a pass. What's the first rule before you fire your weapon? Identify the target, instead of just coming down the hallway blasting away. You were in the service, right? I guess the Army or whatever branch you were in also makes that clear during basic training. I know that I was taught that in the Marines and also at the Police Academy, which we had to go through a shooting course where there were pop-ups of cardboard dummies. Some where just regular people, kids and animals (cats and dogs) and others were masked intruders or whatever. You didn't want to shoot a regular person. If you did, you failed the course and had to return another day. Three chances to pass or you were out. 

Lastly, I am not going to be able to convince anyone that the police were not at fault in this particular case. And, you are not going to be able to convince me otherwise. I just follow the law. What's legal is right and if the cops did something against the law, I would readily admit that they screwed-up. So, when two people cannot agree, it's just best to walk-away. 

Bye!


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## FastTrax (Sep 25, 2020)

I have no dogs in this race because I was no lawman but I've talked to lawmen about the "As of late" 180 degree turn in police/citizen interaction violence and reluctantly and I do say reluctantly I must say this about the now fully documented and disclosed failed No Knock warrant concept and other gangbusters battering ram antics that the COPS TV Series brought to light. Historically progressive law enforcement agencies would have the residence in questions electricity , phone service and plumbing disconnected prior to any 3:AM to 5:AM raid if it even came to that and the escape tunnel crap in the movies was just that, crap. Miss Taylor was employed in a Louisville hospital so they could've approached her at her place of employment and possessed complete control and direction of the entire investigation from  A to Z. I have seen investigators come to my job apprehending and arresting employees all the time and all without incident. This gives the good guys complete control of everything and everybody involved and now they can conduct the rest of the investigation in relative safety. I would venture a guess that there are a number of other factors I am quite sure are at play in these situations of timely intervention after weeks or even months of investigation that probably for a small number of police departments serving diverse cultures is too tasking to incorporate nowadays so I guess sitting at the desk waiting for the phone to ring after asking the public to do ones job for one is safer for them except when the Rambo mood strikes to use that street sweeper and MP5K then I guess once that heady drug wears off all this is really academic. Like DeNiro said to Stallone in  Copland. You're law enforcement and I'm law enforcement but you're no cop, I'm  a cop. Big difference I would imagine. Well I said my piece, make of it what you will.


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## Keesha (Sep 25, 2020)

Some of you people are watching too much TV


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## FastTrax (Sep 25, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Some of you people are watching too much TV



GUILTY> Sorry.


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## Keesha (Sep 25, 2020)

FastTrax said:


> GUILTY> Sorry.


No. My apologies. Those were very well written posts.


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Sep 25, 2020)

The War on Drugs has been a complete failure over decades. What has been gain for all the money thrown at it and the innocent lives loss?

No knocks are ridiculous. I would not be able to hear a knock and announcement at the front door which is on the east end while in the master bedroom on the west end of my home especially if the TV is on. Even less so sleeping in the wee hours of the morning.


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## win231 (Sep 25, 2020)

911 said:


> Really?? Well, what would you do if someone shot at you and struck your friend who was standing beside you? And, by the way, they did not "initiate the events of the night" as you put it. They were legally serving a warrant. Even by his own admission, Mr. Walker fired the first shot. I cannot believe the heat that Mr. Cameron, AG for Kentucky, is taking for not filing murder charges. He is just following the rule of law. If he filed a murder charge, he would have very little evidence with which to convict. Nothing the cops did were illegal "by law." Using poor judgment or making a bad choice is not against the law.
> 
> And BTW, what you also wrote is ridiculous to the tenth power. I doubt if you have any idea as what all goes on prior to a knock-down. There is a lot of planning involved. No one just shows up at the door and kicks it in with guns blazing. This isn't a TV show or a video game.
> "The fact that someone could be armed inside the apartment should have been a primary concern to them. They failed to protect the occupants, as well as themselves in the execution of a search warrant."
> ...


"Well, what would you do if someone shot at you and struck your friend who was standing beside you?"
If I decided to break into someone's house (like these cops did), I'd expect that we may be shot.


----------



## Camper6 (Sep 25, 2020)

911 said:


> The theory behind this is that because Ms. Taylor received the number of shots that she did and Mr. Walker did not get hit is that he was using her as a human shield. Supposedly, that theory did not come from the police, but from a local TV station in the Louisville area. I did not confirm this report.


My way of thinking.  The boyfriend shot her to keep her mouth shut.
I'm terrible.  But that's the way I think of thugs.

I don't believe the human shield theory because the people would have to see her to shoot through her.


----------



## Pepper (Sep 25, 2020)

@FastTrax
_"This gives the good guys complete control of everything and everybody involved and now they can conduct the rest of the investigation in relative safety. I would venture a guess that there are a number of other factors I am quite sure are at play in these situations of timely intervention after weeks or even months of investigation that probably for a small number of police departments serving diverse cultures is too tasking to incorporate nowadays so I guess sitting at the desk waiting for the phone to ring after asking the public to do ones job for one is safer for them except when the Rambo mood strikes to use that street sweeper and MP5K then I guess once that heady drug wears off all this is really academic." _

*Wow.  That's all One Sentence!*
Not criticising, just amazed!  

Are you/Were you a cop, FastTrax?  I remember wondering that from a different thread.


----------



## FastTrax (Sep 25, 2020)

Keesha said:


> No. My apologies. Those were very well written posts.



No apology necessary K. Seriously we're good. Enjoy the next 48 hours, lol. Always a friend.


----------



## FastTrax (Sep 25, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @FastTrax
> _"This gives the good guys complete control of everything and everybody involved and now they can conduct the rest of the investigation in relative safety. I would venture a guess that there are a number of other factors I am quite sure are at play in these situations of timely intervention after weeks or even months of investigation that probably for a small number of police departments serving diverse cultures is too tasking to incorporate nowadays so I guess sitting at the desk waiting for the phone to ring after asking the public to do ones job for one is safer for them except when the Rambo mood strikes to use that street sweeper and MP5K then I guess once that heady drug wears off all this is really academic." _
> 
> *Wow.  That's all One Sentence!*
> ...



Pepper. I could never quite properly structure a sentence. I'm working on it though. Be gentle though at 70 GOD is still not finish with me, lololol. Cop? No. However working in the Northeast one comes to rely on not only railroad cops but cops in urban areas all the time to get from point A to point B in one piece and after a while strong bonds of trust and respect for each others professions are forged. Not all of them were decent but if nothing else they kept their individual proclivities to themselves and knew to tolerate all even the intolerable to get through the day and that makes all the difference. That's the mark of a man.


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## Butterfly (Sep 25, 2020)

911 said:


> Really?? Well, what would you do if someone shot at you and struck your friend who was standing beside you? And, by the way, they did not "initiate the events of the night" as you put it. They were legally serving a warrant. Even by his own admission, Mr. Walker fired the first shot. I cannot believe the heat that Mr. Cameron, AG for Kentucky, is taking for not filing murder charges. He is just following the rule of law. If he filed a murder charge, he would have very little evidence with which to convict. Nothing the cops did were illegal "by law." Using poor judgment or making a bad choice is not against the law.
> 
> And BTW, what you also wrote is ridiculous to the tenth power. I doubt if you have any idea as what all goes on prior to a knock-down. There is a lot of planning involved. No one just shows up at the door and kicks it in with guns blazing. This isn't a TV show or a video game.
> "The fact that someone could be armed inside the apartment should have been a primary concern to them. They failed to protect the occupants, as well as themselves in the execution of a search warrant."
> ...



911, I've heard that the police were in plain clothes.  Do you know if that is correct?  If true, that seems weird, and dangerous for all parties involved.


----------



## Irwin (Sep 25, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> 911, I've heard that the police were in plain clothes.  Do you know if that is correct?  If true, that seems weird, and dangerous for all parties involved.



They were in plain clothes but were wearing police vests. Most of them, anyway, from what I've read.

I don't know. If somebody broke down my door, I'd shoot at them. That's why I own a gun. For protection. To protect my family. And I'm not about to throw up my hands if it's the police who busted down my door. I don't violate any laws and I have a right to not be harassed, although that's not likely to happen since I'm old and a bit of a hermit. But neither Breonna or Taylor were criminals; it was a friend and previous boyfriend of Breonna who was the person of interest.


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## Keesha (Sep 25, 2020)

Plain clothed Officers who busted the door down with botched warrants all to trip them up to find drugs that weren’t there while people got needlessly shot  hence the huge settlement.
Whoever was in charge of this raid did a major FAIL!!! Notice how quickly this was settled?
Weird and dangerous is right. While money can never bring a life back, at least the family was compensated for this tragic failure of the legal system. That in itself speaks volumes.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.amp.html


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.the...-louisville-shooting-police-what-we-know.html


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## Keesha (Sep 25, 2020)

Irwin said:


> But neither Breonna or Taylor were criminals; it was a friend and previous boyfriend of Breonna who was the person of interest.


If this is true, that’s what the court systems are for.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 26, 2020)

If not for the activity of the police, Miss Taylor would still be breathing. So, they initiated the events of that night. When Mr. Walker fired at them, and wounded one of them, it was not procedure to  blindly shoot the crap out of whoever was in the building. They had no idea of who was on the other side of the door. It could have been a bunch of kids. They didn't even shoot the guy with the gun. But they shot up the next door apartment. Again, they had no idea who was there The fact that one of their own was injured did not give them the license to  level the place with bullets.  The police acted more like a rival street gang than professional policemen.


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## 911 (Sep 26, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> 911, I've heard that the police were in plain clothes.  Do you know if that is correct?  If true, that seems weird, and dangerous for all parties involved.


I believe that there were two detectives in plain clothes and one patrol officer in uniform and driving his patrol vehicle. I don’t know if he had the lights turned on or not. When serving a warrant, here in PA, the Trooper is required to turn on the vehicle’s blue lights. I don’t know what Kentucky law is.

It saddens me that people don’t follow the rule of law. People like you and I who understand legalities understand these things, but trying to get the average Joe to understand is a huge undertaking. Breonna Taylor’s death was not murder. It was a tragic incident. The police had a warrant, which empowered them to act as they did. When a person decides to hang around thugs, bad things are always likely to happen. The police knew that she was handling money for her ex-bf because they had obtained a bank statement showing large amounts of money being deposited. They also knew that her ex-bf (Glover) was using her apartment from time to time as a place to hide drugs. They knew this from surveillance. Please don’t ask me to site my references. I have read literally dozens of pages on this story and after noting about six different pages, I gave up.

I also think that those people who blame the Kentucky AG for not filing murder charges are just plain wrong. I watched a segment on NBC and CNN where they had some black people who were supposedly important in the black community blaming him for not filing murder charges. It wasn’t up to him. The Grand Jury returned the charge, which they had the power to indict the officers with many different charges, including felony murder, which could have produced a death penalty sentence. So, please leave Mr. Cameron alone.


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## 911 (Sep 26, 2020)

Irwin said:


> They were in plain clothes but were wearing police vests. Most of them, anyway, from what I've read.
> 
> I don't know. If somebody broke down my door, I'd shoot at them. That's why I own a gun. For protection. To protect my family. And I'm not about to throw up my hands if it's the police who busted down my door. I don't violate any laws and I have a right to not be harassed, although that's not likely to happen since I'm old and a bit of a hermit. But neither Breonna or Taylor were criminals; it was a friend and previous boyfriend of Breonna who was the person of interest.


Police are required to minimally wear a badge when invoking a warrant. There were two suits and a patrol officer, so one was dressed in uniform.


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 26, 2020)

911 said:


> Really?? Well, what would you do if someone shot at you and struck your friend who was standing beside you? And, by the way, they did not "initiate the events of the night" as you put it. They were legally serving a warrant. Even by his own admission, Mr. Walker fired the first shot. I cannot believe the heat that Mr. Cameron, AG for Kentucky, is taking for not filing murder charges. He is just following the rule of law. If he filed a murder charge, he would have very little evidence with which to convict. *Nothing the cops did were illegal "by law." Using poor judgment or making a bad choice is not against the law.*
> 
> And BTW, what you also wrote is ridiculous to the tenth power. I doubt if you have any idea as what all goes on prior to a knock-down. There is a lot of planning involved. No one just shows up at the door and kicks it in with guns blazing. This isn't a TV show or a video game.
> "The fact that someone could be armed inside the apartment should have been a primary concern to them. They failed to protect the occupants, as well as themselves in the execution of a search warrant."
> ...


But, 911... how many more times do families have to endure loosing loved ones to cases of "poor judgement and bad choice"?

How many more times do innocent people need to lose their lives to the nonsensical and asinine practice of police knocking doors down (first) to say hello?


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 26, 2020)

I don't believe blowing some one away is an "oops". Tough luck, b****h is not an answer to wildly shooting into an inhabited apartment building. Nor is an association with 'thugs". You cannot deny that blindly shooting into an  occupied apartment building without regard to the  other tenants is blatantly incompetent, and shows little regard for the lives inside that building.  I guess if your neighbor 'hangs around with thugs", bad things will happen to you, too.
This is not the first time we have a police "oops". There is a steady cadence of people loosing their lives in police "oops". Over and over. Year after year. Black Lives Matter is attempting to shine a light on police "oops". But what about the other police involved deaths-whites, latinos? How do we know that they too have lots of "oops"?  WE don't have a  White lives matter. Yes, there may be many, hopefully most, justified police interactions resulting in death. But.........
Still, you can't deny that the police in the Taylor incident put the lives of the totally innocent people in the next apartment in peril by wildly, and blindly shooting into an occupied building.


----------



## rgp (Sep 26, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> If not for the activity of the police, Miss Taylor would still be breathing. So, they initiated the events of that night. When Mr. Walker fired at them, and wounded one of them, it was not procedure to  blindly shoot the crap out of whoever was in the building. They had no idea of who was on the other side of the door. It could have been a bunch of kids. They didn't even shoot the guy with the gun. But they shot up the next door apartment. Again, they had no idea who was there The fact that one of their own was injured did not give them the license to  level the place with bullets.  The police acted more like a rival street gang than professional policemen.




  "If not for the activity of the police, Miss Taylor would still be breathing. "

 It could also be said that if not for the association with a drug-thug boyfriend ..... She might also still be breathing ?

 If a person is going to travel in those circles ?....IMO it opens all sorts of bad doors.


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## rgp (Sep 26, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> But, 911... how many more times do families have to endure loosing loved ones to cases of "poor judgement and bad choice"?
> 
> How many more times do innocent people need to lose their lives to the nonsensical and asinine practice of police knocking doors down (first) to say hello?




"how many more times do families have to endure loosing loved ones to cases of "poor judgement and bad choice"?

  Had their loved ones not made some bad choices/poor judgements , they would have never had bad encounters with the police. Perhaps these families should work from within?

Besides, they [the family] got paid quite nicely & quickly for this one.


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## Butterfly (Sep 26, 2020)

911 said:


> Police are required to minimally wear a badge when invoking a warrant. There were two suits and a patrol officer, so one was dressed in uniform.



Do you know if Walker fired before or after they broke the door down?  I've heard it was after, while they were crashing in.  I'm asking because Kentucky does have a version of a stand your ground/castle doctrine law, which might explain why Walker was not charged for wounding the officer.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 26, 2020)

.According to Walker's 911, which is after the call he made to his mother, it was at least two minutes after Taylor died, he had no idea  the shooters were police. He did not know who the shooters were.


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## Camper6 (Sep 26, 2020)

911.  Why do the police keep making such dumb mistakes?  Don't they get any training?  Doesn't their supervisors see what is going on?  

I mean.  Even the dumbest person in the world knows that you can't kneel on a guys neck with your hands in your pockets until he stops breathing.

I'm all in favor of police and they work they do is tough but what I am seeing is just unbelievable.


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## win231 (Sep 26, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> But, 911... how many more times do families have to endure loosing loved ones to cases of "poor judgement and bad choice"?
> 
> How many more times do innocent people need to lose their lives to the nonsensical and asinine practice of police knocking doors down (first) to say hello?


Indefinitely - provided it's police officers who are doing the killing.


----------



## rgp (Sep 26, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> 911.  Why do the police keep making such dumb mistakes?  Don't they get any training?  Doesn't their supervisors see what is going on?
> 
> I mean.  Even the dumbest person in the world knows that you can't kneel on a guys neck with your hands in your pockets until he stops breathing.
> 
> I'm all in favor of police and they work they do is tough but what I am seeing is just unbelievable.




 The officer's hands were not in his pockets, they were resting on his leg, and the procedure was an approved / taught method at the time.


----------



## Pink Biz (Sep 26, 2020)

911 said:


> *I also think that those people who blame the Kentucky AG for not filing murder charges are just plain wrong. I watched a segment on NBC and CNN where they had some black people who were supposedly important in the black community blaming him for not filing murder charges. It wasn’t up to him. The Grand Jury returned the charge, which they had the power to indict the officers with many different charges, including felony murder, which could have produced a death penalty sentence. So, please leave Mr. Cameron alone.*



*Your request seems to be falling upon deaf ears. The Governor of Kentucky, Andy Beshear, has requested of Cameron that the Grand Jury transcripts be made public, as have Breonna Taylor's family attorneys. Why not be as transparent as possible in this powderkeg situation?

How can a Grand Jury be able to indict the proverbial ham sandwich but not any of the officers involved in Ms. Taylor's death? 

And what good fortune for those folks who'd rather talk about chaos in the streets than police brutality against black people, to have a black man deliver the news that a young black woman, a first responder (essential employee) working two jobs and with no criminal record, was killed in her home and no one will suffer any consequences.

Just who is this Daniel Cameron anyhow?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...breonna-taylor-kentucky-attorney-general.html*


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 26, 2020)

win231 said:


> Indefinitely - provided it's police officers who are doing the killing.


Makes me wonder, Win, could it be the coffers in many States, are overflowing with riches, and that's why it's easier to dip into the coffer and settle quickly rather than rein-in police behaviour?


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## Irwin (Sep 26, 2020)

I have yet to see any of the police involved apologize for killing an innocent woman. If they have, somebody please post a link. I'd have some empathy for them if they'd acknowledge that they !@#$%ed up.

And why are they putting people's lives at risk over a drug bust? The police were tracking Jamarcus Glover -- Breonna Taylor's ex-boyfriend, but he wasn't even there. He's since been arrested on drug charges.

Whoever lied to obtain the warrant should be punished for actions that led to the death of somebody, whatever law that might be. Criminal negligence?


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## Pepper (Sep 26, 2020)

What kind of drugs are we talking about anyway?


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## Camper6 (Sep 26, 2020)

rgp said:


> The officer's hands were not in his pockets, they were resting on his leg, and the procedure was an approved / taught method at the time.


That's what I heard as well. But if they were just on his leg, then he would have to be wearing black gloves.  It's hard to tell from the pictures.  If they were resting on his leg, it's awfully close to the pocket.  The dialogue was "I'm fine with that", or words to that effect. No matter how you cut it.  It was a dumb move on all of them and the procedure is no longer valid.

I went back and looked at the images.  The police officers arms were bare.


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## Keesha (Sep 26, 2020)

rgp said:


> The officer's hands were not in his pockets, they were resting on his leg, and the procedure was an approved / taught method at the time.


Approved method that was botched just like this raid.


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## FastTrax (Sep 26, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Approved method that was botched just like this raid.



Ha ha ha, lololol. I like the hands on his leg as opposed to being in his pockets story. Yeah that's the ticket, if we keep singing that song long enough maybe even Mr. Floyd will believe that one himself. As if that were a deciding factor in him pressing his knee down on Mr. Floyds neck squeezing the life out of him. You gotta love the bleats of these fanboys. What a bunch. Sick.


----------



## win231 (Sep 26, 2020)

Irwin said:


> I have yet to see any of the police involved apologize for killing an innocent woman. If they have, somebody please post a link. I'd have some empathy for them if they'd acknowledge that they !@#$%ed up.
> 
> And why are they putting people's lives at risk over a drug bust? The police were tracking Jamarcus Glover -- Breonna Taylor's ex-boyfriend, but he wasn't even there. He's since been arrested on drug charges.
> 
> Whoever lied to obtain the warrant should be punished for actions that led to the death of somebody, whatever law that might be. Criminal negligence?


Police never apologize for killing anyone - including that woman manager of Trader Joe's who was killed recently when police sprayed bullets into the entrance to try to shoot a suspect who ran into the store.  If they apologized, it might be interpreted as an admission of wrongdoing & we can't have that.  Better for the city to just pay & preserve the hero worship.


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## FastTrax (Sep 26, 2020)

Pepper said:


> What kind of drugs are we talking about anyway?



www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/breonna-taylor/2020/08/27/jamarcus-glover-breonna-taylor-case-booked-jail/3444810001/


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## 911 (Sep 27, 2020)

Aunt Marg said:


> But, 911... how many more times do families have to endure loosing loved ones to cases of "poor judgement and bad choice"?
> 
> How many more times do innocent people need to lose their lives to the nonsensical and asinine practice of police knocking doors down (first) to say hello?


That's a good question, Aunt Marg. It's easy for us to sit here and pass judgment, but until one of us in that same situation, we don't know how we would react. Take this case as an example. If you knock on a door and announce yourself and the resident doesn't hear you, so no one responds, then the cops break in the door with a battering ram and the owner (thinking his home is being broken into) opens fire, as a policeman, what would you do? Probably defend yourself by returning fire because you believe that the resident is involving you in a shootout, especially after you see that your partner has been hit. 

This was a tragic incident all the way around. The police announced, the resident didn't hear the announcement, so a shootout ensued. But, how do you explain the fact that the female took several shots while the shooter took none? 

The police that went through the door had to have permission from a higher up to do that. When conducting a drug raid, I have never known there not to be a plan. If their plan was to execute the warrant and if no one answered the door, they were going to take down the door with a battering ram, someone higher up had to approve this plan. Things like this just do not happen and I have never known any policeman or woman to take it upon themselves to knock-down a door without a higher up approving of the plan. This is not to say that maybe the LMPD doesn't empower their officers to do so without permission. I don't know for sure how they plan their raids, but if they allow officers to do as they feel necessary, then this is the result. 

IMO, the reason the one Officer was charged with Wanton Endangerment was because he shot into another apartment. Had he not done that, I doubt if 'any' charges would have been filed. I feel bad for Mr. Cameron, the state's AG, who is taking all the heat for the not filing murder charges. It wasn't his call. A Grand Jury was was convened and they filed the charges, not Mr. Cameron. I couldn't believe all of the people on some of the network news shows that called this man out for not filing the charges. These are very ignorant people that do not understand how our justice system works. 

Because Grand Jury proceedings are always confidential, we don't know what all went on during the testimonies that were given. Was the Grand Jury given the option of filing murder charges? Some say yes, some say no. I think because of this, there are a lot of unanswered questions. I also believe someone isn't telling the full truth, either the police or Mr. Walker. This, we will probably never know. 

We all would like to have more answers, but I don't think we will get them.


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## rgp (Sep 27, 2020)

FastTrax said:


> Ha ha ha, lololol. I like the hands on his leg as opposed to being in his pockets story. Yeah that's the ticket, if we keep singing that song long enough maybe even Mr. Floyd will believe that one himself. As if that were a deciding factor in him pressing his knee down on Mr. Floyds neck squeezing the life out of him. You gotta love the bleats of these fanboys. What a bunch. Sick.




  Did you watch the video ?........Well watch it again.


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## Irwin (Sep 27, 2020)

Pink Biz said:


> *Your request seems to be falling upon deaf ears. The Governor of Kentucky, Andy Beshear, has requested of Cameron that the Grand Jury transcripts be made public, as have Breonna Taylor's family attorneys. Why not be as transparent as possible in this powderkeg situation?
> 
> How can a Grand Jury be able to indict the proverbial ham sandwich but not any of the officers involved in Ms. Taylor's death?
> 
> ...



From what I remember, Grand Jury transcripts are not made public unless the person of interest has been found guilty in the court of law. We have a right to privacy, as defined in our Constitution's 4th Amendment, and making public the testimony would violate that right.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 27, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> 911.  Why do the police keep making such dumb mistakes?  Don't they get any training?  Doesn't their supervisors see what is going on?
> 
> I mean.  Even the dumbest person in the world knows that you can't kneel on a guys neck with your hands in your pockets until he stops breathing.
> 
> I'm all in favor of police and they work they do is tough but what I am seeing is just unbelievable.


Camper 6. I can't agree with you more. I don't think police work is an easy job. They have to deal with highly overwrought people, plain nuts, drunks, stoned, tee'd off. criminals, killers, thieves,  drug dealers, etc. etc. And the skills to deal with all of that is "On The Job Training". That might have been enough 100 years ago, not now. One of the known flaws with OJT is that it perpetuates poor work habits. We need highly educated, well paid police professionals.


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 27, 2020)

Again, Miss Taylor's death is another instance of cowboy cops screwing up.   What, this is Sunday, we should have another one of these by next week, at the least. And to the people sitting in front of your screens, you know with out a doubt, we will have one.


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## FastTrax (Sep 27, 2020)

rgp said:


> Did you watch the video ?........Well watch it again.



Is that some kind of direct order? Are you in some way trying to order me to do something? Let me know.


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## Pink Biz (Sep 27, 2020)

Irwin said:


> From what I remember, Grand Jury transcripts are not made public unless the person of interest has been found guilty in the court of law. We have a right to privacy, as defined in our Constitution's 4th Amendment, and making public the testimony would violate that right.


*"Citing the secrecy of grand jury proceedings, Attorney General Daniel Cameron refused to tell reporters whether he recommended that grand jurors exonerate three Louisville police officers on homicide charges in the fatal shooting of Breonna Taylor. 

But other prosecutors in Kentucky, notably Dave Stengel, the former commonwealth’s attorney in Jefferson County, have disclosed whether they made recommendations to grand juries in police shooting cases — or left decisions solely up to the grand jury.

So have prosecutors in other states."*

https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...case-cameron-right-recommendation/3524320001/


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## Butterfly (Sep 27, 2020)

It seems to me that any time a prosecutor brings a case to a grand jury it is more or less a "recommendation to indict"  -- because otherwise, why bring it to a grand jury, whose sole mission is to indict or not.


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## rgp (Sep 27, 2020)

FastTrax said:


> Is that some kind of direct order? Are you in some way trying to order me to do something? Let me know.



A strong suggestion, but read it as you will.


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## FastTrax (Sep 27, 2020)

rgp said:


> A strong suggestion, but read it as you will.



I did and that's exactly why I responded to your rather intrinsic threat. At least even you knew to deescalate your own action because I don't look for trouble with other members here and hopefully you don't want any trouble from me. Still friends?


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## Lewkat (Sep 27, 2020)

I just now took the time to read the comments on this thread from all the marvelous "experts."  Like 911, I too was a member of a police force.  Police officers are highly trained and ready for any contingent other than being blindsided.  We really do not know all the details of this case and perhaps will not for years.  Wild speculation resolves nothing and just to make it clear, few officers ever make stupid mistakes continually as was alleged by one member here.  Police officers are peace keeping members of society.  Those who choose to disrupt the normal course of events through nefarious means will be dealt with by these sworn officers of the law.  Like it or not.  Warrants are served by either uniformed or badged officers.  In this case, plain clothes, but who made it known that they were the law.  Some of you have made very shameful and very erroneous comments and conclusions here and that includes those who do not reside in this country.  None of us is perfect, but the castigation of the police by anyone here is not acceptable.  If you were there, knew all the intrinsic details of this case and were a part of its issuance and outcome, then you may state emphatically what is fact and what is not.  As one member stated, let it rest.  There is a reason for this.  If you dare to consider why.


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## Keesha (Sep 27, 2020)

This is a thread about a case that went so wrong that $12 million was offered as a settlement. If there was no wrong doing then there would be no settlement.

This is a thread discussing what may have possibly gone wrong in the case and of course we aren’t all going to agree. I think that’s completely normal and since this IS about a police raid where people were shot and killed, I don’t think it’s that abnormal to have strong opinions on both sides.

Not all people are from the country this happened in and unless they were actually THERE then they can’t state emphatically what is fact and what is not . SO TRUE but THIS ^^^^would include EVERYONE here. Nobody was there who has commented on this thread.

It was stated that none of us know the details of this case and perhaps won’t for years yet it is then stated that warrants were served by either uniformed officers or badged officers who were in plain clothes who made it known that they were law. If the above is true, how do we know? We don’t. None of us do.

Do you notice the huge contradiction?
Nobody here commenting was there so I don’t think it matters in the least where any member comes from who wants to participate in the thread. It’s the same with any thread. We ALL comment about things going on in ALL parts of the world and none of us know for certain what actually happened ( since we weren’t there ) but it doesn’t stop us from participating in a conversation about it.

All I know is that there have been two highly publicized cases where things went horribly wrong. One case three officers were charged with murder. This case got settled for a large amount of money. Should I assume that the state handed over this money for no reason what-so-ever or that it was compensation for mistakes made by the police? Are we not allowed to wonder in case it offends others who don’t agree with us?

There’s no doubt police have an incredibly difficult job. I’d hate to be in their shoes especially if orders were given putting their lives in more danger than need be. I’ve no doubt that most police officers are honest with moral integrity but I also know that all positions of power have the tendency to be abused. Unfortunately it happens and I’d expect all police officers to support one another. That’s what teams do.

There have been equally intense posts from both sides of this discussion. That’s fairly normal in any type of debate. I see shocking posts from both sides.


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## Irwin (Sep 27, 2020)

Nothing shocks me anymore.


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## Keesha (Sep 27, 2020)

Irwin said:


> Nothing shocks me anymore.


Ok! Was my post that offensive?


----------



## Camper6 (Sep 27, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> I just now took the time to read the comments on this thread from all the marvelous "experts."  Like 911, I too was a member of a police force.  Police officers are highly trained and ready for any contingent other than being blindsided.  We really do not know all the details of this case and perhaps will not for years.  Wild speculation resolves nothing and just to make it clear, few officers ever make stupid mistakes continually as was alleged by one member here.  Police officers are peace keeping members of society.  Those who choose to disrupt the normal course of events through nefarious means will be dealt with by these sworn officers of the law.  Like it or not.  Warrants are served by either uniformed or badged officers.  In this case, plain clothes, but who made it known that they were the law.  Some of you have made very shameful and very erroneous comments and conclusions here and that includes those who do not reside in this country.  None of us is perfect, but the castigation of the police by anyone here is not acceptable.  If you were there, knew all the intrinsic details of this case and were a part of its issuance and outcome, then you may state emphatically what is fact and what is not.  As one member stated, let it rest.  There is a reason for this.  If you dare to consider why.



Keeripes man.  Why do you think they are rioting in the streets? For the good of their health? Or for the somewhat nebulous hope that changes will be made to stop the stupid mistakes?
If they are so highly trained as you are suggesting, then why in the world are these incidents arising?

O.K. So the knee on the neck has been washed out on the Minneapolis police force. It would still be in existence if it wasn't for the riots.  Now why would the officers be charged if it was a 'simple mistake' as you called it. 

Your comment.
"None of us is perfect, but the castigation of the police by anyone here is not acceptable. "

Oh yes it it.  That's what forums are for.  None of us is seeking perfection. And I didn't like your comment about "some who do not reside in this country".  The forum is open to anyone who signs up. It's not restricted.  It's an international forum.  We are all anonymous here and what we say or comment is not going to change the law or anything else.  

I can see as a former police officer you would take to defending the force.  I would do the same thing.


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## FastTrax (Sep 27, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Ok! Was my post that offensive?



Not to me and I say this because unless one or more of the members here can actually state that he or she or they can say they were there in person or knew someone there then everything here posted by everyone here is either personal opinion, repeating information from a source be it credible or fake news, gossip or just forum bluster and fakery to try and convince the membership that they have some type of personal conduit to parties involved with the storyline. Either way I feel this thread has run it's course and anything else said would probably be counterproductive. Hollow tough guy threats included.


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## Keesha (Sep 27, 2020)

FastTrax said:


> Not to me and I say this because unless one or more of the members here can actually state that he or she or they can say they were there in person or knew someone there then everything here posted by everyone here is either personal opinion, repeating information from a source be it credible or fake news, gossip or just forum bluster and fakery to try and convince the membership that they have some type of personal conduit to parties involved with the storyline. Either way I feel this thread has run it's course and anything else said would probably be counterproductive. Hollow tough guy threats included.


Thank you. You said that much better than I ever could.


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## FastTrax (Sep 27, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Thank you. You said that much better than I ever could.



No Keesha I don't think it was directed at anybody, just a general statement. However you were very direct and it's the short burst of passion that are the most impacting. Saying very little while giving your antagonist the look.


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## Keesha (Sep 27, 2020)

FastTrax said:


> No Keesha I don't think it was directed at anybody, just a general statement. However you were very direct and it's the short burst of passion that are the most impacting. Saying very little while giving your antagonist the look.


Yeah! You’re right. There is nothing wrong with what I said at all. 
Thank you.


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## FastTrax (Sep 27, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Yeah! It’s that saying very little part I have trouble with . I’m a women after all but I can work on it.
> Not the being a woman part. lol



You don't have to work on anything here. You're just fine the way you are. TTFN.


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## Irwin (Sep 27, 2020)

Keesha said:


> Ok! Was my post that offensive?



No, I was commenting on your last sentence where you wrote: "I see shocking posts from both sides." I'm well passed the ability to be "shocked" by things people say and do. I've lost faith in nearly half of humanity.


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## Keesha (Sep 27, 2020)

Irwin said:


> No, I was commenting on your last sentence where you wrote: "I see shocking posts from both sides." I'm well passed the ability to be "shocked" by things people say and do. I've lost faith in nearly half of humanity.


That’s what I thought at first but then I over thought it which I usually do. 
Thanks for explaining.


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## Irwin (Sep 27, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> Keeripes man.  Why do you think they are rioting in the streets? For the good of their health? Or for the somewhat nebulous hope that changes will be made to stop the stupid mistakes?
> If they are so highly trained as you are suggesting, then why in the world are these incidents arising?
> 
> O.K. So the knee on the neck has been washed out on the Minneapolis police force. It would still be in existence if it wasn't for the riots.  Now why would the officers be charged if it was a 'simple mistake' as you called it.
> ...



Yep, the police work for us, and we damn sure have the right to criticize them when they do wrong. We don't live in a police state (yet), and the bad cops need to be punished; otherwise, they make all the cops look bad. And therein lies the problem; police unions make it almost impossible to punish bad cops. Real reform needs to begin with the police unions.


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## Lewkat (Sep 28, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> Keeripes man.  Why do you think they are rioting in the streets? For the good of their health? Or for the somewhat nebulous hope that changes will be made to stop the stupid mistakes?
> If they are so highly trained as you are suggesting, then why in the world are these incidents arising?
> 
> O.K. So the knee on the neck has been washed out on the Minneapolis police force. It would still be in existence if it wasn't for the riots.  Now why would the officers be charged if it was a 'simple mistake' as you called it.
> ...


This was not to say that people from all nations are not welcome here.  Of course they are, but I would no more comment on how another country is run publicly nor denigrate any of its policies in any way.  I'd like to think that if I did, that nation's citizens could certainly be offended to the max.  I see that someone still states the police are continuing to make mistakes.  No, it is the perpetrators who make the mistakes.  Criminal behavior is the biggest mistake ever and will be dealt with.  Try arresting a criminal who is determined to kill you in cold blood before he'll let you take him in.  If the citizenry cooperated with the police, there'd be less tragedies and probably lighter sentences.


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## Camper6 (Sep 28, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> This was not to say that people from all nations are not welcome here.  Of course they are, but I would no more comment on how another country is run publicly nor denigrate any of its policies in any way.  I'd like to think that if I did, that nation's citizens could certainly be offended to the max.  I see that someone still states the police are continuing to make mistakes.  No, it is the perpetrators who make the mistakes.  Criminal behavior is the biggest mistake ever and will be dealt with.  Try arresting a criminal who is determined to kill you in cold blood before he'll let you take him in.  If the citizenry cooperated with the police, there'd be less tragedies and probably lighter sentences.



Look.  I'm not in favor of criminal behaviour by any means.  And we are all news junkies and we have the same problems in our own country so we comment on it.  We also visit other countries on vacation.   The problem is how is it dealt with.  

I wouldn't be offended if you commented on Canada's policing system at all. I live close to Minnesota.  I get the Minnesota television channels.  I have family living in the U.S.  I visit there. We are not strangers looking for an argument.

I don't know about you.  But some of the procedures used by the police are just not acceptable to the general population.  At one time you didn't see some of the procedures.  Now it's plastered all over the news.  The policeman kneeling on the neck is just not acceptable to the general population.  

And on top of that, we have had personal experiences with the police throughout our lifetime. Personally I was stopped by a policeman late at night who cut in front of me and then chased me and claimed I was speeding.  I wasn't.  I never speed and have never had a ticket in my life.  I hate speeders.  He didn't have his radar on and the only reason he chased me is because I blew my horn when he cut in front of me.  It was an unmarked cruiser and had I know I wouldn't have blown my horn.  I told him he caused a dangerous situation.  He told me he had plenty of time to cut in front of me.  I kept my mouth shut because  I was going to fight a ticket if he gave me one and I would tell the judge that if he had plenty of time, then I couldn't have been speeding.
He sent in the information and my record stood for itself.  No tickets in 65 years of driving. 
You see it's experiences like this that make a citizen's trust waver. He cut in front of me instead of following me if he thought I was speeding so I think he was full of b.s.

This comment.
"If the citizenry cooperated with the police, there'd be less tragedies and probably lighter sentences."

In general the citizenry are law abiding people.  The criminals will not co-operate with the police. And that has nothing to do with lighter sentences.  The sentencing comes from judges.

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with a former police officer.  I had coffee with a former police officer every morning before the virus situation.

I used to love discussing the law.


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## Keesha (Sep 28, 2020)

Deleted.


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## Pepper (Sep 28, 2020)

There was a time when Southern states complained about Northern states commenting on their racial policies, acting as if we are two nations, which, btw, is what is happening today.  Maybe I shouldn't comment on Kentucky being from NY.

I value what the world has to say, particularly about us, the biggest influencer in the world for good or ill.  I lived in Europe during part of Vietnam and saw how disgusted Europeans were with our policies there.  Can't say it changed my opinion, because that already was my opinion.

There's one planet, one top species.  We have the right to comment on anything.


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## Sunny (Sep 28, 2020)

> Criminal behavior is the biggest mistake ever and will be dealt with.  Try arresting a criminal who is determined to kill you in cold blood before he'll let you take him in.  If the citizenry cooperated with the police, there'd be less tragedies and probably lighter sentences.



Yes, Lewcat, and lately, a lot of that criminal behavior is being done by the police.

Your last sentence, "If the citizenry cooperated with the police..." sounds a lot like a fascist regime. Those countries demand compliance with the police, or you're thrown in a cell and the key thrown away.  That may not be exactly what you mean, but good God, listen to yourself!


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## FastTrax (Sep 28, 2020)

IMHO this quite animated and more so newsworthy thread has run it's course and as passionate and understanding a family is here emotions have run high and is now causing a split in the membership and it is now going South. Everybody here knows I don't threaten members here or give them hostile orders or reason to target me. I never have and I never will and like every forum everywhere keyboard warriors and internet tough guys and other cyber bullies will always infest a peaceful forum. Now I am moving on to finish existing projects not only for Americans but our international members in good standing  here and in other sub forums here and do what I do best. Entertain the membership, negative or positive comments not withstanding so I bid you all adieu. Not from the site but from this thread. Be Blessed.


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## rgp (Sep 28, 2020)

FastTrax said:


> I did and that's exactly why I responded to your rather intrinsic threat. At least even you knew to deescalate your own action because I don't look for trouble with other members here and hopefully you don't want any trouble from me. Still friends?




  Intrinsic threat ? Give me a break.

  " At least even you knew to deescalate your own action because I don't look for trouble with other members here and hopefully you don't want any trouble from me"

 Kiss my ass .... who do you think you are ? Trouble from you ...piss off.

I'll ramp it back up [due to your threat] Watch it again.!


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## FastTrax (Sep 28, 2020)

Well then by all means be my guest and since you can't show me what you're made of on the internet and if you so desire maybe we can meet somewhere and you can teach me how to improve myself. Actually your threats don't cut no ice with me. I'm always willing to learn if not here then wherever you feel the need, Lol.


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## rgp (Sep 28, 2020)

FastTrax said:


> Well then by all means be my guest and since you can't show me what you're made of on the internet and if you so desire maybe we can meet somewhere and you can teach me how to improve myself. Actually your threats don't cut no ice with me. I'm always willing to learn if not here then wherever you feel the need, Lol.



 I made no threat, I merely said, Watch it again......you're the one that blew it all out of shape.

  Like I said , piss off.


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## Keesha (Sep 28, 2020)

You are so right FastTrax
Commenting on threads like this does divide the forum into sides, especially considering this is a U.S. based forum. That shouldn’t matter at all but it certainly does.

This forum never used to allow politics for this very reason. Members start getting hateful and snarky with each other, including me. Even commenting on actions taken from people you don’t even know from the news, people take your comments very personally.

Ive been needlessly aggressive on here at times stating my views and know without a doubt I’m getting hated each time I post something. Most people don’t confront me about it, instead they go to other threads I’m posting in and play head games with me because that’s so much more mature. Then they’ll gossip with the others and plan other ways of getting me back or letting me know they hate me but thats forum life. Besides which, I’m used to being hated . 

There are some serious haters  here . A lot more than I ever realized who have formed their own clique. They are apparently protecting their own turf. The US turf but since ya ‘all are being so nasty  I’ll stop posting  anything that asks for an opinion or is related to the US. or maybe stop all opinions altogether since mine are rarely welcome. This whole thing is one big  power trip.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your posts FastTrax. You treat people exceptionally well. Don’t let the haters chase you away.


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## Lewkat (Sep 28, 2020)

Oh well, FastTrax, I am out of here as well since now I am considered to be guilty of fascist remarks.  Perhaps, I should clarify my fascist comment.  Co-operating with the police means simply, when given an order, please comply.  No one gets hurt that way.  The order is usually given to someone committing a crime or guilty thereof and not the general public.  The end of this discussion as far as I am concerned.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 28, 2020)

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/notice-all-members-please-read.8331/


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