# Natural immunity fared better against the Delta variant compared to the vaxxes



## WhatInThe (Jan 20, 2022)

Natural immunity fared better against the Delta variant compared to the vaxxes.

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...vaccination-during-delta-surge-us-2022-01-19/

Much data from California and NY during the Delta surge


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## Jeni (Jan 20, 2022)

WhatInThe said:


> Natural immunity fared better against the Delta variant compared to the vaxxes.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/business/he...vaccination-during-delta-surge-us-2022-01-19/
> 
> Much data from California and NY during the Delta surge


I find it funny throughout the article still pushing the vaccine.  
 I think things like this will pop up as they try to gracefully transition to the end of this as other countries are starting to do...
This will buy some piece of mind for the many who contracted the virus even after vaccine thinking they are double protected as well ....

as for the variants i wonder how they determine each swab would need to be assessed ... they would need to grow out a sample to see the slight variant in it ...my guess has always been they only do that with the hospitalized and assume the follow that trend.


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## WhatInThe (Jan 21, 2022)

Jeni said:


> I find it funny throughout the article still pushing the vaccine.
> .........


I noticed that too. They're trying to twist things around.  Normally vax fared better should been the bulk of the story with the fine print at the end saying 'vax and natural immunity better' -one sentence. They're trying to down play natural immunity by continuing to bring up the vax. They will never admit natural immunity better in this case.

What's that old expression -Burying the lead?


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## Don M. (Jan 21, 2022)

Regardless of what Covid "information" a person chooses to accept, the facts remain that over 5 million have died, worldwide, and over 800K have succumbed to this virus in the U.S.  Hospitals, and medical staff are still pushed to their limits, Schools are unable to sustain normal curriculum for our youngsters.  Daily routines are still being affected by the ever changing "mandates", etc., etc., etc.  

The vast majority of those who have died, or suffered badly fall into the "unvaccinated" category.   Many of those who did get vaccinated, and still succumbed, already had underlying health issues that contributed to their demise.  

Getting vaccinated is certainly a "personal" choice, but failing to do so, and ignoring things like masking and distancing just insures that this virus is not going to go away, anytime soon.


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## oldiebutgoody (Jan 21, 2022)

*Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection, and lowest among those who had never been infected or vaccinated, the study found.*


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## win231 (Jan 21, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Regardless of what Covid "information" a person chooses to accept, the facts remain that over 5 million have died, worldwide, and over 800K have succumbed to this virus in the U.S.  Hospitals, and medical staff are still pushed to their limits, Schools are unable to sustain normal curriculum for our youngsters.  Daily routines are still being affected by the ever changing "mandates", etc., etc., etc.
> 
> The vast majority of those who have died, or suffered badly fall into the "unvaccinated" category.   Many of those who did get vaccinated, and still succumbed, already had underlying health issues that contributed to their demise.
> 
> Getting vaccinated is certainly a "personal" choice, but failing to do so, and ignoring things like masking and distancing just insures that this virus is not going to go away, anytime soon.


YYYYup, that vaccine is fixing everything & it's simply mind boggling that some people are so damn stubborn & don't know what's good for them!


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## WhatInThe (Jan 21, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> *Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection, and lowest among those who had never been infected or vaccinated, the study found.*


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## charry (Jan 21, 2022)

Don M. said:


> Regardless of what Covid "information" a person chooses to accept, the facts remain that over 5 million have died, worldwide, and over 800K have succumbed to this virus in the U.S.  Hospitals, and medical staff are still pushed to their limits, Schools are unable to sustain normal curriculum for our youngsters.  Daily routines are still being affected by the ever changing "mandates", etc., etc., etc.
> 
> The vast majority of those who have died, or suffered badly fall into the "unvaccinated" category.   Many of those who did get vaccinated, and still succumbed, already had underlying health issues that contributed to their demise.
> 
> Getting vaccinated is certainly a "personal" choice, but failing to do so, and ignoring things like masking and distancing just insures that this virus is not going to go away, anytime soon.


This will all be forgotten soon , it won’t go away…..just like the flu , and hay fever, and shingles etc etc…..but it will !!


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## WhatInThe (Jan 21, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> *Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection, and lowest among those who had never been infected or vaccinated, the study found.*


Problem with that number and other statistics/studies is that they never tested those getting vaxxed for antibodies. At least one study has 40% of those that tested positive were asymptomatic.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...us-cases-asymptomatic-study-finds/6495693001/

So when most studies mention prior infections is that a positive test or actually sick with symptoms.Did natural immunity or the vax do the job.


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## Sunny (Jan 21, 2022)

So, Whatinthe, you are suggesting that all those vaccinated people who didn't get the illness, or survived it with minor symptoms, just coincidentally happened to be the same ones with natural immunity?  And the vaccine had nothing to do with the overwhelming number of vaccinated people who didn't get sick?

Guess Dr. Fauci and all his researchers turned out to be wrong... the vaccine had nothing to do with it, after all!


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## win231 (Jan 21, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> *Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection, and lowest among those who had never been infected or vaccinated, the study found.*


Ya know what makes that study valid & believable?

Big, Bold, Italic print.


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## oldiebutgoody (Jan 21, 2022)

win231 said:


> Ya know what makes that study valid & believable?
> 
> Big, Bold, Italic print.



yup - direct quote from the article


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## Debster (Jan 21, 2022)

The death rate did not increase because of covid. Large


Don M. said:


> Regardless of what Covid "information" a person chooses to accept, the facts remain that over 5 million have died, worldwide, and over 800K have succumbed to this virus in the U.S.  Hospitals, and medical staff are still pushed to their limits, Schools are unable to sustain normal curriculum for our youngsters.  Daily routines are still being affected by the ever changing "mandates", etc., etc., etc.
> 
> The vast majority of those who have died, or suffered badly fall into the "unvaccinated" category.   Many of those who did get vaccinated, and still succumbed, already had underlying health issues that contributed to their demise.
> 
> Getting vaccinated is certainly a "personal" choice, but failing to do so, and ignoring things like masking and distancing just insures that this virus is not going to go away, anytime soon.


Actually, the death rate for the year did not increase. Many, perhaps most who died did so "with covid," not from covid. The most vaccinated countries had the highest amount of covid. I realize it is not what the mainstream media claimed for two years, but they have not been purveyors of truth for some time now. Best to get your information elsewhere.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 21, 2022)

I am not sure what the rate from 2020 to 2021 shows when both of those years were filled with Covid related deaths, but most certainly when this all started the death rate from 2019 to 2020 did increase by 16.8% and the life expectancy of a person went down almost 2 years during that time frame of when Covid started. Covid became the 3rd leading cause of death in 2020 behind heart disease and Cancer. This is research data provided by the CDC. This is not claims by the mainstream media or any other media that puts out information that gets all over the place. This is actual scientific research completed by scientists and formulated into statistics. So actually it has increased since the beginning of all of this. It may have plateaued over this past year, but initially it did increase.


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## Debster (Jan 21, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I am not sure what the rate from 2020 to 2021 shows when both of those years were filled with Covid related deaths, but most certainly when this all started the death rate from 2019 to 2020 did increase by 16.8% and the life expectancy of a person went down almost 2 years during that time frame of when Covid started. Covid became the 3rd leading cause of death in 2020 behind heart disease and Cancer. This is research data provided by the CDC. This is not claims by the mainstream media or any other media that puts out information that gets all over the place. This is actual scientific research completed by scientists and formulated into statistics. So actually it has increased since the beginning of all of this. It may have plateaued over this past year, but initially it did increase.


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## Debster (Jan 21, 2022)

https://libertariannews.org/2020/11/26/study-covid-has-had-no-effect-on-us-death-rate/

Scotland and England just came out with data showing 95% ÷/- of hospitalizstions are vaccinated. Unfortunately, the entire episode was totally mismanaged from the gitgo. Seeminglly with nefarious intent.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 21, 2022)

charry said:


> This will all be forgotten soon , it won’t go away…..just like the flu , and hay fever, and shingles etc etc…..but it will !!


A Pfizer scientist said a couple of weeks ago that COVID will become endemic like the flu. Eg: It ain't going away. I say factor in the foolishness of people who think they don't need to wear masks, the over confidence of those who think they're safe because they've been vaccinated (thus let their guards down as far as protective measures) and the unknown factors about each new variant that's bound to emerge, we're going to have to face facts. I repeat: It ain't going away.


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## charry (Jan 22, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> A Pfizer scientist said a couple of weeks ago that COVID will become endemic like the flu. Eg: It ain't going away. I say factor in the foolishness of people who think they don't need to wear masks, the over confidence of those who think they're safe because they've been vaccinated (thus let their guards down as far as protective measures) and the unknown factors about each new variant that's bound to emerge, we're going to have to face facts. I repeat: It ain't going away.


Exactly what I said diva …….


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## suds00 (Jan 22, 2022)

bold print gets some people's attention


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## Debster (Jan 22, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> A Pfizer scientist said a couple of weeks ago that COVID will become endemic like the flu. Eg: It ain't going away. I say factor in the foolishness of people who think they don't need to wear masks, the over confidence of those who think they're safe because they've been vaccinated (thus let their guards down as far as protective measures) and the unknown factors about each new variant that's bound to emerge, we're going to have to face facts. I repeat: It ain't going away.


Foolishness of people who think they don't need to wear masks?!

Alas, numerous studies have shown masks to be completely ineffective against viruses. They have done FAR more harm than good.To children learning social skills for sure but also to adults. Most people are not aware, but the whites of eyes contain the *exact* same substance as the one in nasal lining and in lungs that attracts and binds to covid!! The government knows this but never said a word about it because they now use iris scanning to identify people.  Masks are just virtue signaling theater and a sign of obedience. Don't be fooled! Even the government nhs website has a study on n95 masks showing they are ineffective against viruses. Masks are the worst thing to come out of this scamdemic. I kid you not.


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## suds00 (Jan 22, 2022)

Debster said:


> Foolishness of people who think they don't need to wear masks?!
> 
> Alas, numerous studies have shown masks to be completely ineffective against viruses. They have done FAR more harm than good.To children learning social skills for sure but also to adults. Most people are not aware, but the whites of eyes contain the *exact* same substance as the one in nasal lining and in lungs that attracts and binds to covid!! The government knows this but never said a word about it because they now use iris scanning to identify people.  Masks are just virtue signaling theater and a sign of obedience. Don't be fooled! Even the government nhs website has a study on n95 masks showing they are ineffective against viruses. Masks are the worst thing to come out of this scamdemic. I kid you not.


millions who have died of the disease would indicate that covid-19 is not a scam. medical personnel don't wear masks for the heck of it !where are numerous studies showing that masks are useless? don't get the vaccine. don't wear a mask. don't do social distancing. act like nothings' happening. i wish you luck


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## win231 (Jan 22, 2022)

Debster said:


> Foolishness of people who think they don't need to wear masks?!
> 
> Alas, numerous studies have shown masks to be completely ineffective against viruses. They have done FAR more harm than good.To children learning social skills for sure but also to adults. Most people are not aware, but the whites of eyes contain the *exact* same substance as the one in nasal lining and in lungs that attracts and binds to covid!! The government knows this but never said a word about it because they now use iris scanning to identify people.  Masks are just virtue signaling theater and a sign of obedience. Don't be fooled! Even the government nhs website has a study on n95 masks showing they are ineffective against viruses. Masks are the worst thing to come out of this scamdemic. I kid you not.


Dr. Fauci initially admitted masks are useless;  don't bother with them.  Later, he said what he was told to say & said they're effective protection.  That, alone should make people say "Hmmmmmm."


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## Jeni (Jan 22, 2022)

suds00 said:


> millions who have died of the disease would indicate that covid-19 is not a scam. medical personnel don't wear masks for the heck of it !where are numerous studies showing that masks are useless? don't get the vaccine. don't wear a mask. don't do social distancing. act like nothings' happening. i wish you luck


it is ON the boxes not only of surgical masks... but.. yes also N95 that it is not to protect from Viruses.  
we were told for a year cloth masks ok ...now the same "experts"   call a face decoration.    

I find it crazy as I helped administer a respiratory program at a medical lab that to wear N95 all day....
 we were REQUIRED by OSHA to have employees take an occupational medical exam ...some employees  were told not they should NOT wear all day...
but general public can and are encouraged to do... 
If i was a business i would sue OSHA for the $$ spent following these medical exams if.....NOW I guess the new thought is exam is un-needed ....


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## suds00 (Jan 22, 2022)

experts recommend n95 and kn95 masks. the cloth masks are not useful. dr. fauci states that he changed his position on masks as he learned more about the virus. everyone has learned more about the virus and ways to combat it. that's not unusual.


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## Sunny (Jan 22, 2022)

Debster said:


> Foolishness of people who think they don't need to wear masks?!
> 
> Alas, numerous studies have shown masks to be completely ineffective against viruses. They have done FAR more harm than good.To children learning social skills for sure but also to adults. Most people are not aware, but the whites of eyes contain the *exact* same substance as the one in nasal lining and in lungs that attracts and binds to covid!! The government knows this but never said a word about it because they now use iris scanning to identify people.  Masks are just virtue signaling theater and a sign of obedience. Don't be fooled! Even the government nhs website has a study on n95 masks showing they are ineffective against viruses. Masks are the worst thing to come out of this scamdemic. I kid you not.


The whites of eyes do not sneeze, cough, talk, shout, sing, or breathe, Deb.   The virus is spread by being propelled by those "actions."  Our eyes take in light so we can see; they don't expel anything, except maybe you can get Covid by catching someone's tears and deliberately inhaling them!

Masks are "virtue signaling?"  I don't know anyone who feels virtuous because they are *required* to wear a mask in order to enter a store, restaurant, meeting room, classroom, or any other place obviously spreading the virus.  Many people hate wearing a mask, but they wear it anyway, not because they are virtuous.

However, I do agree that it's just plain silly to wear a mask when outdoors, and even more so when driving alone in one's car. I've seen plenty of people doing both. I suspect the reason has nothing to do with virtue; they probably just forgot to take it off when they left the building. I've done that a few times myself, and have discovered one "plus" to mask-wearing:  it helps to keep your face warm in single-digit freezing weather!


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## win231 (Jan 22, 2022)

suds00 said:


> experts recommend n95 and kn95 masks. the cloth masks are not useful. dr. fauci states that he changed his position on masks as he learned more about the virus. everyone has learned more about the virus and ways to combat it. that's not unusual.


He had to say something, but what he said made him look even more foolish.


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## Becky1951 (Jan 22, 2022)

Sunny said:


> The whites of eyes do not sneeze, cough, talk, shout, sing, or breathe, Deb.   The virus is spread by being propelled by those "actions."  Our eyes take in light so we can see; they don't expel anything, except maybe you can get Covid by catching someone's tears and deliberately inhaling them!
> 
> Masks are "virtue signaling?"  I don't know anyone who feels virtuous because they are *required* to wear a mask in order to enter a store, restaurant, meeting room, classroom, or any other place obviously spreading the virus.  Many people hate wearing a mask, but they wear it anyway, not because they are virtuous.
> 
> However, I do agree that it's just plain silly to wear a mask when outdoors, and even more so when driving alone in one's car. I've seen plenty of people doing both. I suspect the reason has nothing to do with virtue; they probably just forgot to take it off when they left the building. I've done that a few times myself, and have discovered one "plus" to mask-wearing:  it helps to keep your face warm in single-digit freezing weather!


No people's eyes don't sneeze however people who sneeze in close proximity to you project particles into your eyes.
And your eyes are not immune to a virus.

I agree no need for wearing a mask outside when your not close to others.


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## Debster (Jan 22, 2022)

suds00 said:


> millions who have died of the disease would indicate that covid-19 is not a scam. medical personnel don't wear masks for the heck of it !where are numerous studies showing that masks are useless? don't get the vaccine. don't wear a mask. don't do social distancing. act like nothings' happening. i wish you luck


There are so many studies showing how useless masks are to prevent disease, while being extremely harmful, especially to children, that it is surprising people still don't know. Here is one from msn even. But just go to a noncensored website like duckduckgo and search. Also gab or gettr, telegram etc. The mainstream media, though now finally changing their tune, have proven to be outright liars. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...he-best-studies-suggest-they-don-t/ar-AANfurl


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## win231 (Jan 22, 2022)

Debster said:


> There are so many studies showing how useless masks are to prevent disease, while being extremely harmful, especially to children, that it is surprising people still don't know. Here is one from msn even. But just go to a noncensored website like duckduckgo and search. Also gab or gettr, telegram etc. The mainstream media, though now finally changing their tune, have proven to be outright liars. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...he-best-studies-suggest-they-don-t/ar-AANfurl


Masks satisfy the need for people to feel like they're doing _something_.


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## Debster (Jan 22, 2022)

Sunny said:


> The whites of eyes do not sneeze, cough, talk, shout, sing, or breathe, Deb.   The virus is spread by being propelled by those "actions."  Our eyes take in light so we can see; they don't expel anything, except maybe you can get Covid by catching someone's tears and deliberately inhaling them!
> 
> Masks are "virtue signaling?"  I don't know anyone who feels virtuous because they are *required* to wear a mask in order to enter a store, restaurant, meeting room, classroom, or any other place obviously spreading the virus.  Many people hate wearing a mask, but they wear it anyway, not because they are virtuous.
> 
> However, I do agree that it's just plain silly to wear a mask when outdoors, and even more so when driving alone in one's car. I've seen plenty of people doing both. I suspect the reason has nothing to do with virtue; they probably just forgot to take it off when they left the building. I've done that a few times myself, and have discovered one "plus" to mask-wearing:  it helps to keep your face warm in single-digit freezing weather!


Obviously eyes do not repel anything.  But eyes are usually open when you're walking around ya? which means they are not masked. If someone coughs and you walk through it you can catch covid even with a mask on. I sure did. After having covid I quit wearing oxygen depriving mask and have not caught anything since. There are indeed numerous studies showing not only are they ineffective but if too constrictive cause the wearer to take in too much carbon dioxide and bacteria and there has even been a large increase in sinus infections and worse. Not to mention destroying kids' lives. No excuse for imposing them except as a ploy to dehumanize people in order to make them more compliant. That is unfortunately the sad truth. Scarves are great in cold weather.


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## John cycling (Jan 22, 2022)

Jeni said:


> as for the variants i wonder how they determine each swab would need to be assessed ... they would need to grow out a sample to see the slight variant in it ...my guess has always been they only do that with the hospitalized and assume the follow that trend.



No, they never do that because they can't.  No one has ever done it to date.  The whole thing is total BS.
What people have been dying from *in addition to the petro-chemical shots* is *oxygen starvation*, which is what I've been saying from the very beginning.  Mask wearing upsets *the vital O2/CO2 exchange* <-- in the red blood cells of the body, which is vital to health and to life.

The lack of proper O2/CO2 exchange starves all the tissues of the body.  *No one is immune to this happening!* Of course weaker and unhealthy people die first. Sadly, the murderous intubation procedure puts the nails in the coffins of those unfortunate souls treated in that manner.
.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 22, 2022)

The question that always enters my mind is how long is all this back and forth bickering with nothing being accomplished going to go on? When it all comes down to it those who feel the vaccine does not work for them will not get it and the others who feel it works and masks are effective will get them and use them. All this other stuff is complete nonsense and what blows my mind it is coming from grown adults. Go about your lives and make your choices whatever they may be, but all this back and forth crap is accomplishing absolutely nothing.


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## Becky1951 (Jan 22, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> The question that always enters my mind is how long is all this back and forth bickering with nothing being accomplished going to go on? When it all comes down to it those who feel the vaccine does not work for them will not get it and the others who feel it works and masks are effective will get them and use them. All this other stuff is complete nonsense and what blows my mind it is coming from grown adults. Go about your lives and make your choices whatever they may be, but all this back and forth crap is accomplishing absolutely nothing.


Discussions.
Yes some wish to argue but that should not stop discussing anything Covid related.

If it bothers you, don't read the Covid threads.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 22, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> Discussions.
> Yes some wish to argue but that should not stop discussing anything Covid related.
> 
> If it bothers you, don't read the Covid threads.


Is this what you call a discussion? Maybe a one sided discussion. It seems to me the way that I am reading that when someone comes in the thread with a difference of opinion they get laughed at or just negative remarks are made at the post. That is not a discussion at all. It is pretty obvious what these threads are set up for and well they do achieve that for the most part. Have fun with it if you may.


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## Alligatorob (Jan 22, 2022)

I can see both @Rah-Rah and @Becky1951 's sides of this.  It is an important issue, worthy of discussion.  I just try my best to ignore the noise and post what I think helps.  

I have done the vaccines and booster, and will  plan to continue to, however I have a lot of friends and family who have not.  By reading the posts and arguments I have gained a better understanding as to where they are coming from.  Still don't agree, but I better understand.  I tend to take a big picture view and look at the best large population statistics I can find.  But I think others are more swayed by individual stories and the like.  Of course I think I am right.

Stick around @Rah-Rah you add value here.


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## Shero (Jan 22, 2022)

*Debate* is a competitive, two-way conversation. The goal is to win an argument or convince someone, such as the other participant or third-party observers.

*Dialogue* is a cooperative, two-way conversation. The goal is for participants to exchange information and build relationships with one another.

*Discourse* is a cooperative, one-way conversation. The goal to deliver information from the speaker/writer to the listeners/readers.

*Diatribe* is a competitive, one-way conversation. The goal is to express emotions, browbeat those that disagree with you, and/or inspires those that share the same perspective.

We see a lot of 4th  one on the Covid threads 
.


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## Shero (Jan 22, 2022)




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## win231 (Jan 22, 2022)

Debster said:


> Obviously eyes do not repel anything.  But eyes are usually open when you're walking around ya? which means they are not masked. If someone coughs and you walk through it you can catch covid even with a mask on. I sure did. After having covid I quit wearing oxygen depriving mask and have not caught anything since. There are indeed numerous studies showing not only are they ineffective but if too constrictive cause the wearer to take in too much carbon dioxide and bacteria and there has even been a large increase in sinus infections and worse. Not to mention destroying kids' lives. No excuse for imposing them except as a ploy to dehumanize people in order to make them more compliant. That is unfortunately the sad truth. Scarves are great in cold weather.


And, when bacteria & virus gets past the outside of the mask (which it does), it stays in contact with your mouth & nose much longer.


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## Ladybj (Jan 22, 2022)

Debster said:


> Foolishness of people who think they don't need to wear masks?!
> 
> Alas, numerous studies have shown masks to be completely ineffective against viruses. They have done FAR more harm than good.To children learning social skills for sure but also to adults. Most people are not aware, but the whites of eyes contain the *exact* same substance as the one in nasal lining and in lungs that attracts and binds to covid!! The government knows this but never said a word about it because they now use iris scanning to identify people.  Masks are just virtue signaling theater and a sign of obedience. Don't be fooled! Even the government nhs website has a study on n95 masks showing they are ineffective against viruses. Masks are the worst thing to come out of this scamdemic. I kid you not.


ON POINT!!!!!


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## Becky1951 (Jan 22, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Is this what you call a discussion? Maybe a one sided discussion. It seems to me the way that I am reading that when someone comes in the thread with a difference of opinion they get laughed at or just negative remarks are made at the post. That is not a discussion at all. It is pretty obvious what these threads are set up for and well they do achieve that for the most part. Have fun with it if you may.


You joined one week ago and you think you know who does or does not laugh at or call someone names (guess you missed the name calling comments in many of the Covid treads).

Giving an opposing opinion is hardly one sided.  there are plenty of opinions both sides, in the middle and everything else. 

FYI, I have never called anyone any names or tried to degrade a person like some here have.

The ones having fun if that's what you want to call it, are the ones calling others idiots, stupid, uneducated etc simply because you disagree with them.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 22, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> You joined one week ago and you think you know who does or does not laugh at or call someone names (guess you missed the name calling comments in many of the Covid treads).
> 
> Giving an opposing opinion is hardly one sided.  there are plenty of opinions both sides, in the middle and everything else.
> 
> ...


I am not pointing a finger directly at you and I totally agree with you that this sort of stuff comes from both sides. Just this particularly thread happened to be on one side. 

Like I have stated before and I will state over and over again anyone can have their own opinion. Whatever that opinion is it is not going to change, effect or do anything to my opinion no matter theories they happen to post or come up with, facts they posts or whatever they hear on the news or Social Media. This goes for both sides. I will make my decision certainly not from what others are posting on a forum whichever side they are posting from. Now if someone is posting something that is blatantly untrue then i will do my best to find facts to dispute that. As for opinions if masks work or not or if the vaccines do or don't work , I will make that decision on my own and not from others from a forum.


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## dseag2 (Jan 22, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I am not pointing a finger directly at you and I totally agree with you that this sort of stuff comes from both sides. Just this particularly thread happened to be on one side.
> 
> Like I have stated before and I will state over and over again anyone can have their own opinion. Whatever that opinion is it is not going to change, effect or do anything to my opinion no matter theories they happen to post or come up with, facts they posts or whatever they hear on the news or Social Media. This goes for both sides. I will make my decision certainly not from what others are posting on a forum whichever side they are posting from. Now if someone is posting something that is blatantly untrue then i will do my best to find facts to dispute that. As for opinions if masks work or not or if the vaccines do or don't work , I will make that decision on my own and not from others from a forum.


Take my advice.  Don't even participate in the Covid threads.  I did when I joined this forum several months ago and just became frustrated.  I know this is supposedly considered dialogue, but IMHO it is just grandstanding on both sides.  I said months ago that I will not change anyone's mind, regardless of facts that are presented, so I read it for entertainment only.

There are a few members that I disagree with re: this topic but we still agree on other things.  We can all find a way to meet in the middle.  We are all entitled to lead our own lives and live with the consequences.


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## Shero (Jan 22, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I am not pointing a finger directly at you and I totally agree with you that this sort of stuff comes from both sides. Just this particularly thread happened to be on one side.
> 
> Like I have stated before and I will state over and over again anyone can have their own opinion. Whatever that opinion is it is not going to change, effect or do anything to my opinion


If that is the case then what is the reason for your hullabaloo 
.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 22, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Take my advice.  Don't even participate in the Covid forums.  I did when I joined this forum several months ago and you will just become frustrated.  I know this is supposedly considered dialogue, but IMHO it is just grandstanding on both sides.  I said months ago that I will not change anyone's mind, regardless of facts that are presented, so I read it for entertainment only.


The person stated that I have only been on the forum a week which is 100% true, but it would have only taken 1 hour to see what the purpose of these threads on both sides are posted for. You are absolutely correct when you say that no matter how much debating, arguing or whatever you want to call it nothing will change the minds of anyone.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 22, 2022)

Shero said:


> If that is the case then what is the reason for your hullabaloo
> .


Because it doesn't accomplish anything and all it is about is boasting one side or another.


----------



## Shero (Jan 22, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Take my advice.  Don't even participate in the Covid threads.  I did when I joined this forum several months ago and just became frustrated.  I know this is supposedly considered dialogue, but IMHO it is just grandstanding on both sides.  I said months ago that I will not change anyone's mind, regardless of facts that are presented, so I read it for entertainment only.
> 
> There are a few members that I disagree with re: this topic but we still agree on other things.  We can all find a way to meet in the middle.  We are all entitled to lead our own lives and live with the consequences.





Rah-Rah said:


> The person stated that I have only been on the forum a week which is 100% true, but it would have only taken 1 hour to see what the purpose of these threads on both sides are posted for. You are absolutely correct when you say that no matter how much debating, arguing or whatever you want to call it nothing will change the minds of anyone.


That is not your problem Rah Rah. It is up to the management to decide what, not you.

It goes like this:   the anti vaxxers put up their misinformation and it is up to vaxers like me, to blow them out of the water.

All good fun !!!
.


----------



## Shero (Jan 22, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Because it doesn't accomplish anything and all it is about is boasting one side or another.



There are lots of other threads you may be interested in e.g.
Tea pots and salt shakers
What you are eating today
What you are buying today etc.
maybe that is more to your liking 
n’est-ce pas ?
.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 22, 2022)

Shero said:


> That is not your problem Rah Rah. It is up to the management to decide what, not you.
> 
> It goes like this:   the anti vaxxers put up their misinformation and it is up to vaxers like me, to blow them out of the water.
> 
> ...


It can be fun, but when people start making fun of others just because of what they believe that is not fun. That can work from both sides as well. 

Have your fun though.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 22, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> The person stated that I have only been on the forum a week which is 100% true, but it would have only taken 1 hour to see what the purpose of these threads on both sides are posted for. You are absolutely correct when you say that no matter how much debating, arguing or whatever you want to call it nothing will change the minds of anyone.


Well, that person was Becky and from what I've seen she very rarely participates in threads other than those about Covid so that tells me everything I need to know.


----------



## Shero (Jan 22, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> It can be fun, but when people start making fun of others just because of what they believe that is not fun. That can work from both sides as well.
> 
> Have your fun though.


Merci beaucoup !!
,


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 22, 2022)

Shero said:


> That is not your problem Rah Rah. It is up to the management to decide what, not you.
> 
> It goes like this:   the anti vaxxers put up their misinformation and it is up to vaxers like me, to blow them out of the water.
> 
> ...


I don't consider it fun, but I appreciate your point of view and your posts.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 22, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Well, that person was Becky and from what I've seen she very rarely participates in threads other than those about Covid so that tells me everything I need to know.


And like I explained to her , I was not directly pointing a finger at her. I am saying this in general and not saying one side is worse than another. Both sides participate in this so it is not one sided.


----------



## Shero (Jan 22, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Well, that person was Becky and from what I've seen she very rarely participates in threads other than those about Covid so that tells me everything I need to know.



Why are you fanning a fire deseag 
.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 22, 2022)

Shero said:


> Why are you fanning a fire deseag
> .


I guess I got bored after all this time of trying to be nice.   But really, I hate seeing new members become discouraged because of negativity and catty comments.  I was there a few months ago but fortunately I stayed long enough to overlook it and consider the source.


----------



## win231 (Jan 22, 2022)




----------



## Becky1951 (Jan 22, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I am not pointing a finger directly at you and I totally agree with you that this sort of stuff comes from both sides. Just this particularly thread happened to be on one side.
> 
> Like I have stated before and I will state over and over again anyone can have their own opinion. Whatever that opinion is it is not going to change, effect or do anything to my opinion no matter theories they happen to post or come up with, facts they posts or whatever they hear on the news or Social Media. This goes for both sides. I will make my decision certainly not from what others are posting on a forum whichever side they are posting from. Now if someone is posting something that is blatantly untrue then i will do my best to find facts to dispute that. As for opinions if masks work or not or if the vaccines do or don't work , I will make that decision on my own and not from others from a forum.


True each person has made up their mind to do what is best for them as it should be. I've never tried to change anyone's mind, I've only stated my opinions. 

I also will post articles that give correct information whenever I come across false or misinformation, example, it has been repeated by a member that if your vaccinated you will not die. The truth is vaccinated people have died.


----------



## Becky1951 (Jan 22, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Well, that person was Becky and from what I've seen she very rarely participates in threads other than those about Covid so that tells me everything I need to know.


I participate in other threads. I don't always comment but I read and leave an emoji.


----------



## dseag2 (Jan 22, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> I participate in other threads. I don't always comment but I read and leave an emoji.


Fair enough.  I will see you in those other threads.


----------



## Becky1951 (Jan 22, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Fair enough.  I will see you in those other threads.


Yes if you look at who leaves emojis you will see I do and have been doing so since I joined. Not every thread, as I'm sure not everyone reads every thread.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jan 22, 2022)

Debster said:


> Foolishness of people who think they don't need to wear masks?!
> 
> Alas, numerous studies have shown masks to be completely ineffective against viruses. They have done FAR more harm than good.To children learning social skills for sure but also to adults. Most people are not aware, but the whites of eyes contain the *exact* same substance as the one in nasal lining and in lungs that attracts and binds to covid!! The government knows this but never said a word about it because they now use iris scanning to identify people.  Masks are just virtue signaling theater and a sign of obedience. Don't be fooled! Even the government nhs website has a study on n95 masks showing they are ineffective against viruses. Masks are the worst thing to come out of this scamdemic. I kid you not.


So not true!!


----------



## ElCastor (Jan 23, 2022)

WhatInThe said:


> Natural immunity fared better against the Delta variant compared to the vaxxes.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/business/he...vaccination-during-delta-surge-us-2022-01-19/
> 
> Much data from California and NY during the Delta surge


Natural immunity? I think I'll just stick with Vaxxes and boosters. It's possible that an initial Covid infection (from which you survived) "might" be a bit more effective in preventing a re-infection than a vaccine, but if you are vaccinated and boosted up front your chances of Not contracting Covid in the first place are MUCH greater.


----------



## Shero (Jan 23, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I guess I got bored after all this time of trying to be nice.   But really, I hate seeing new members become discouraged because of negativity and catty comments.  I was there a few months ago but fortunately I stayed long enough to overlook it and consider the source.


No worries, best not to sweat the small stuff


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 23, 2022)

Debster said:


> There are so many studies showing how useless masks are to prevent disease, while being extremely harmful, especially to children, that it is surprising people still don't know. Here is one from msn even. But just go to a noncensored website like duckduckgo and search. Also gab or gettr, telegram etc. The mainstream media, though now finally changing their tune, have proven to be outright liars. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...he-best-studies-suggest-they-don-t/ar-AANfurl


I did some research on this a while back, and posted what I found then.  I tried to look to peer reviewed epidemiological studies, not news reports or opinions.  What I found was that the answer is not clear.  It does appear that if people who are sick wear a mask they are less likely to spread the virus, or any airborne disease.  The evidence showing the protective effect on well people was less clear, there seemed some evidence that masks could help, but not a whole lot.  I could find nothing indicating harm of masks.

Wish the answer was clearer, but its not and that's often the way of the world.  I wear a mask when asked, and on occasion when not, but I don't get obsessive with it one way or the other.  I live in a rural area where masks are rarely seen.

I know some masks are better than others at filtration, but that is not the whole story.  Dispersing breath and just impaction rather than filtration can be beneficial in lowering exposure.  Part of why I think the epidemiological studies are more informative, rather than looking at the mechanisms of how masks work or don't they look at the question as to if people who mask are less likely to spread or get the virus.  However the epidemiological studies are more expensive, take longer, and can be harder to interpret, so they are not as common.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 23, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> True each person has made up their mind to do what is best for them as it should be. I've never tried to change anyone's mind, I've only stated my opinions.
> 
> I also will post articles that give correct information whenever I come across false or misinformation, example, it has been repeated by a member that if your vaccinated you will not die. The truth is vaccinated people have died.


I agree, that vaccinated people do die and die of Covid. I am scared the side effects that this medications could have on me, but I am equally if not more scared of contracting this virus without being protected at all. It is also a fact that many more people who are unvaccinated who contract the virus and especially this new variant has much worse symptoms. So once again it comes down to what your choice is and what becomes important to you.


----------



## Becky1951 (Jan 23, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I agree, that vaccinated people do die and die of Covid. I am scared the side effects that this medications could have on me, but I am equally if not more scared of contracting this virus without being protected at all. It is also a fact that many more people who are unvaccinated who contract the virus and especially this new variant has much worse symptoms. So once again it comes down to what your choice is and what becomes important to you.


"especially this new variant has much worse symptoms"

Do you mean Omicron?

It had mild symptoms.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 23, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> "especially this new variant has much worse symptoms"
> 
> Do you mean Omicron?
> 
> It had mild symptoms.


The Delta variant, but also with Omicron the ones that were getting sicker and even hospitalized were unvaccinated people.


----------



## suds00 (Jan 23, 2022)

Debster said:


> There are so many studies showing how useless masks are to prevent disease, while being extremely harmful, especially to children, that it is surprising people still don't know. Here is one from msn even. But just go to a noncensored website like duckduckgo and search. Also gab or gettr, telegram etc. The mainstream media, though now finally changing their tune, have proven to be outright liars. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...he-best-studies-suggest-they-don-t/ar-AANfurl


children are not  adept at social distancing so a mask provides some level of protection ,at least.


----------



## suds00 (Jan 23, 2022)

large print does not make something correct. those who are vaccinated read about and study the issue as well.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 23, 2022)

There are several things to look at when talking about the vaccines. One major stance is you feel that you get the vaccine and get the best possible coverage from the virus that you can get or you do not get the vaccine because of the unawareness of the side effects down the road. Both stances are valid for sure and do take a lot of research among the part of each person involved making the decision. Ultimately that said person will come to that decision hopefully on their own and not because of any political agenda because this whole thing is a health issue and not political although many are making it as such. In the end each person should come up with an educated decision, but that does not mean that if the next person differs from your decision they are wrong. They are only doing what they feel is right for them. And this is exactly why all the bickering and boasting on both sides is meaningless.


----------



## palides2021 (Jan 23, 2022)

Rally in DC happening now against Covid mandate:






Different doctors are speaking.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 23, 2022)

Whatever side you stand this is exactly the way to go about speaking out. This looks to be very peaceful and that is the way any rally or protest should be.


----------



## Shero (Jan 23, 2022)

charry said:


> View attachment 205017



Charry do you have a clue what Marian Turski was talking about???  He is describing how the Jews were rounded up in Poland and sent to the concentration camps.

For your information, there has been no opposition by Jews about the vaccine. They praise it.  The vaccine was developed mainly by Jewish scientists.

Always good to check what you are posting before you post it.
.


----------



## John cycling (Jan 23, 2022)

Shero said:


> Charry do you have a clue what Marian Turski was talking about???



Whooshhhhhhh, right over your head.  
Charry does, but you don't.    Which is not surprising. 



Rah-Rah said:


> It is also a fact that many more people who are unvaccinated who contract the virus and especially this new variant has much worse symptoms.



Wrong!
That's simply your uninformed opinion, probably based on mainstream propaganda, not a fact.
You're accusing people who are much healthier than you of making bad decisions, which is not a logical thing to do.
For example, I'm much healthier than you are, don't wear a mask, haven't gotten any shots, and I'm not concerned with a virus.

@Rah-Rah, so your husband has been indoctrinated by and works for big pharma, and that's your argument?
@Alligatorob, the CDC and mainstream media are controlled by big pharma, so they're posting the same propaganda.

Believe them if you want.  It's your decision and your life.  Personally, I care about mine.

@Shero:  Indeed, the same shot that was already killing people and continues to kill more of them.


----------



## win231 (Jan 23, 2022)

suds00 said:


> large print does not make something correct. those who are vaccinated read about and study the issue as well.


That's right.
Unless it's also italic.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 23, 2022)

John cycling said:


> Whooshhhhhhh, right over your head.
> Charry does, but you don't.    Which is not surprising.
> 
> 
> ...


My husband is an Anesthesiologist and has worked in a hospital during this entire pandemic and has seen the influx especially during the recent variants of people who have not been vaccinated having to be hospitalized due to the severity of their cases compared to those who were vaccinated who were treated and discharged to recover at home with less severe symptoms. 

Once again this is one of those things that can go back and forth with no accomplishment at all so this conversation should just end right here.


----------



## win231 (Jan 23, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> My husband is an Anesthesiologist and has worked in a hospital during this entire pandemic and has seen the influx especially during the recent variants of people who have not been vaccinated having to be hospitalized due to the severity of their cases compared to those who were vaccinated who were treated and discharged to recover at home with less severe symptoms.
> 
> Once again this is one of those things that can go back and forth with no accomplishment at all so this conversation should just end right here.


Yes, as long as you have the last word.


----------



## Alligatorob (Jan 23, 2022)

John cycling said:


> That's simply your uninformed opinion, probably based on mainstream propaganda, not a fact.


She may be right, take a look at the latest CDC data, just released Friday.  Amongst other things they found:

_"During both Delta- and Omicron-predominant periods, receipt of a third vaccine dose was highly effective at preventing COVID-19–associated emergency department and urgent care encounters (94% and 82%, respectively) and preventing COVID-19–associated hospitalizations (94% and 90%, respectively)."_

They also discuss a general decline in immunity amongst the vaccinated and attribute it in part to Omicron, but found that it still does help reduce risk.

_https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm?s_cid=mm7104e3_x _


----------



## ElCastor (Jan 23, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> The question that always enters my mind is how long is all this back and forth bickering with nothing being accomplished going to go on? When it all comes down to it those who feel the vaccine does not work for them will not get it and the others who feel it works and masks are effective will get them and use them. All this other stuff is complete nonsense and what blows my mind it is coming from grown adults. Go about your lives and make your choices whatever they may be, but all this back and forth crap is accomplishing absolutely nothing.


I agree—but I do feel compelled to object when the anti-Vaxers try to persuade others of the “wisdom” of their foolish and downright dangerous ideas.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 23, 2022)

ElCastor said:


> I agree—but I do feel compelled to object when the anti-Vaxers try to persuade others of the “wisdom” of their foolish and downright dangerous ideas.


I understand. I just feel it doesn't accomplish much of anything other than just putting what you believe to be true out there. It really isn't going to make a difference in anyone's mind. If someone is coming on a forum to post their beliefs they are pretty much set in their thinking.


----------



## Shero (Jan 23, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> My husband is an Anesthesiologist and has worked in a hospital during this entire pandemic and has seen the influx especially during the recent variants of people who have not been vaccinated having to be hospitalized due to the severity of their cases compared to those who were vaccinated who were treated and discharged to recover at home with less severe symptoms.
> 
> Once again this is one of those things that can go back and forth with no accomplishment at all so this conversation should just end right here.



This is all the more reason why you should contribute because there are vulnerable people out there, who will believe the non-sense the anti- vaxxers spread.
This is why I contribute. There are virologists and scientists in my immediate family.  The point is not to "accomplish" anything.  The point is to build awareness.
.


----------



## Shero (Jan 23, 2022)

John cycling said:


> Whooshhhhhhh, right over your head.
> Charry does, but you don't.    Which is not surprising.


You mean the same Charry who insisted the booster vaccine was not safe because it was developed in a month? 

Someone had to educate her that it was not a different vaccine, it is the same  vaccine that's used for the lst and 2nd dose 
.


----------



## ElCastor (Jan 23, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I understand. I just feel it doesn't accomplish much of anything other than just putting what you believe to be true out there. It really isn't going to make a difference in anyone's mind. If someone is coming on a forum to post their beliefs they are pretty much set in their thinking.


I understand, but the value of vaccines, as well as this vaccine, is a proven scientific Fact. Granted that the price of denying reality might be nothing — on the other hand it could well be misery or death. Seems pretty serious to me. One of the reasons for the existence of this and other Internet forums is to provide a platform for legitimate debate.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 23, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I understand. I just feel it doesn't accomplish much of anything other than just putting what you believe to be true out there. It really isn't going to make a difference in anyone's mind. If someone is coming on a forum to post their beliefs they are pretty much set in their thinking.


True, and I personally don't try to convince anyone to change their beliefs, even if they are born from conspiracy and disinformation.  However, there are members and readers here who are confused, unsure and on the fence about whether to take a life saving vaccination in the face of a deadly worldwide pandemic.  There are a lot of liars and charlatans on social media who prey on the uninformed and gullible, but here on this forum we should try and share facts, reality and truthful information, for the sake of the readers and the country.

The brainwashed will not change, but their lies and false 'information' should be pointed out at least.  I'm not big on vaccines, been years since I had the annual flu shot.....but this is a global pandemic where over 800,000 Americans have already died from Covid-19 virus.  Still, there are unvaccinated people who are taking up hospital beds and ventilators, dying at much greater numbers and putting an unnecessary burden on our devoted caring healthcare workers.

My husband and I are fully vaccinated and boosted, and if there is another booster recommended, we will be taking it.  If we don't unite to fight this deadly virus, we lose and our country loses.  I think there has been more than enough death and grieving among us for the past 2+ years, and we could do much better.


----------



## Debster (Jan 23, 2022)

Shero said:


> Charry do you have a clue what Marian Turski was talking about???  He is describing how the Jews were rounded up in Poland and sent to the concentration camps.
> 
> For your information, there has been no opposition by Jews about the vaccine. They praise it.  The vaccine was developed mainly by Jewish scientists.
> 
> ...


Totally not true. Jews are individual people fyi. Sorry, but that is an incredibly ignorant statement. Dr. Malone, who is very much against this genetic altering shot, is the main creator of this mrna technology masquerading as a vaccine. Hth


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 23, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I understand. I just feel it doesn't accomplish much of anything other than just putting what you believe to be true out there. It really isn't going to make a difference in anyone's mind. If someone is coming on a forum to post their beliefs they are pretty much set in their thinking.


I agree, they are set in their thinking, but I am disturbed when they spread outright falsehoods in times of a deadly pandemic.  But I understand how you feel.


----------



## Ladybj (Jan 23, 2022)

I watched a show called Crisis - it made me go hmmmm, an eye opener.  I will leave it at that because everyone will have their own perspective..which is perfectly fine.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 23, 2022)

Shero said:


> This is all the more reason why you should contribute because there are vulnerable people out there, who will believe the non-sense the anti- vaxxers spread.
> This is why I contribute. There are virologists and scientists in my immediate family.  The point is not to "accomplish" anything.  The point is to build awareness.
> .


I appreciate this. If I post this information and get nothing but laughed at or comments thrown at me then they are not only being thrown at me , but also my husband and I am not here for any of that. 



ElCastor said:


> I understand, but the value of vaccines, as well as this vaccine, is a proven scientific Fact. Granted that the price of denying reality might be nothing — on the other hand it could well be misery or death. Seems pretty serious to me. One of the reasons for the existence of this and other Internet forums is to provide a platform for legitimate debate.


I agree with you. Don't get me wrong I do. The problem is there are many that see no value or minimal value in the vaccines and many also see that the virus itself isn't that serious. What I have experienced and like I have stated here the posts here seem not as a debate at all for the most part. The threads posts here whatever side the information falls on seems only to boast one of the other side. A member stated to me I have only been on the site for a week , but honestly it would have only taken me 1 hour to see right through the true meaning of the majority of these Covid related posts. They are not to debate they are to boast there side and put down the other side. That to me is not a debate.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 23, 2022)

charry said:


> View attachment 205017


You've reached bottom here in your trashy and offensive posts.  I thought better of you, but I guess I was wrong.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 23, 2022)

Shero said:


> Charry do you have a clue what Marian Turski was talking about???  He is describing how the Jews were rounded up in Poland and sent to the concentration camps.
> 
> For your information, there has been no opposition by Jews about the vaccine. They praise it.  The vaccine was developed mainly by Jewish scientists.
> 
> ...


Hopefully she doesn't have a clue.  Her reply will be telling.


----------



## Shero (Jan 23, 2022)

Debster said:


> Totally not true. Jews are individual people fyi. Sorry, but that is an incredibly ignorant statement. Dr. Malone, who is very much against this genetic altering shot, is the main creator of this mrna technology masquerading as a vaccine. Hth



Mon Dieu what a lot of babel ! Hope someone understands what you have just said because I do not!
.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 23, 2022)

Shero said:


> Mon Dieu what a lot of babel ! Hope someone understands what you have just said because I do not!
> .


Nothing to understand, it's all BS.


----------



## Ladybj (Jan 23, 2022)

suds00 said:


> large print does not make something correct. those who are vaccinated read about and study the issue as well.


You make a great point - however, I disagree.  Several people that got vaccinated were clueless.  They felt they were pretty safe with 2 injections, now here is the booster...they did not see that coming.  My hubby is vaccinated but said he highly doubt if he take the booster.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jan 23, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I did some research on this a while back, and posted what I found then.  I tried to look to peer reviewed epidemiological studies, not news reports or opinions.  What I found was that the answer is not clear.  It does appear that if people who are sick wear a mask they are less likely to spread the virus, or any airborne disease.  The evidence showing the protective effect on well people was less clear, there seemed some evidence that masks could help, but not a whole lot.  I could find nothing indicating harm of masks.
> 
> Wish the answer was clearer, but its not and that's often the way of the world.  I wear a mask when asked, and on occasion when not, but I don't get obsessive with it one way or the other.  I live in a rural area where masks are rarely seen.
> 
> I know some masks are better than others at filtration, but that is not the whole story.  Dispersing breath and just impaction rather than filtration can be beneficial in lowering exposure.  Part of why I think the epidemiological studies are more informative, rather than looking at the mechanisms of how masks work or don't they look at the question as to if people who mask are less likely to spread or get the virus.  However the epidemiological studies are more expensive, take longer, and can be harder to interpret, so they are not as common.


Thank you for posting about your research. Obviously masks that are not worn all the time in potentially high risk situations won't "work". Another thing about masks is they won't work if not worn properly; many folks don't wear them properly. Back when the pandemic first started, half the people I saw were wearing their masks only to cover their mouths. Another thing is that medical masks have too many gaps. Early on in the pandemic, I saw an illustration as to how COVID particles circulate in the air. After viewing that I felt that masks with gaps probably do not offer enough protection. Health officials are now advising that N95s & KN95s offer better protection. I've known this for more than a year and that's all I've been wearing since I was gifted my first one more than a year ago. 

The layering and filtration is important. Obviously 5 layers (which the KN05s have) are better than 2 or three. More about which masks are best: 
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/cor...the-best-protection-against-covid-19/3469083/
@Debster


----------



## Shero (Jan 23, 2022)

*Time to revisit the importance of mask wearing:*





.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 23, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> The person stated that I have only been on the forum a week which is 100% true, but it would have only taken 1 hour to see what the purpose of these threads on both sides are posted for. You are absolutely correct when you say that no matter how much debating, arguing or whatever you want to call it nothing will change the minds of anyone.


I appreciate your opinion, and it doesn't matter one bit how long your have been part of the community, your thoughts are valued and I'm happy you're here with us. 

 I don't want to argue or fuss, and I don't care to change anyone's mind.  I do feel compelled though to point out falsehoods regarding vaccines and this pandemic we have been dealing with.  There is so much harmful disinformation being spread, and it is damaging in controlling this virus. 

 I'm lucky that my husband or myself has never been hospitalized with Covid, but I did lose one extended family member to the virus.  My heart goes out to all who have buried loved ones, and were not even able to be at their sides as they took their last breath.  I thank and appreciate all the nurses who tried to comfort them while alone in their last hours on earth. 

 Just so you know where I'm, and some others here are coming from.  As already suggested to you by a friend, you may not want to involve yourself in the pandemic discussions, they do go in circles with the fact vs fiction arguments.


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