# Does anyone still make their own bread ?



## senior chef (Aug 11, 2021)

I am curious to know if anyone, besides myself, still makes their own bread ?  If yes, what do you make ?


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

Sweet rolls, crescent butter rolls, 3-seed loaf, rustic white rounds, potato bread, raisin bread, and cinnamon rolls. 

I make really good biscuits, too. (not to be confused with cookies. If we're talking cookies, I make a mean shortbread...not to be confused with bread)


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## hollydolly (Aug 11, 2021)

Yes I occasionally make Cheese & tomato bread...


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## Mr. Ed (Aug 11, 2021)

Not me I’m unemployed


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## Gaer (Aug 11, 2021)

I used to make bread all the time when my husband was alive.  I make good biscuits, , varied stuff, but WHY? 
No one to feed it to!
Don't eat much bread by myself.
But last winter, I bought all the stuff, bowls, the flours, everything I needed for REAL SOURDOUGH BREAD! 
I got a starter goin and kept feeding it, but in the Winter, I turn off the heat at night and my kitchen was too cold to
keep it going!  So disappointed!  I wanted SO BAD to learn how to make the authentic Sourdough bread!
Really soft on the inside and a hard crust on the outside!  I STILL WANT TO LEARN THIS!
I want to make the BEST Sourdough bread EVER!  But, It would cost a fortune to keep my whole house warm all Winter
just to save my starter!
I also want to make the best Cinnamon rolls EVER!

Damn Murrmurr!  No wonder she snapped you up!  Are you the most perfect man ever?


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Damn Murrmurr!  No wonder she snapped you up!  Are you the most perfect man ever?


I'm as human as the next guy.

I grew up in a large family of Italians, Jews, and Irish. They all cook, they all bake, and they all do it all the time. All the time.


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## J-Kat (Aug 11, 2021)

I do sometimes but only in the bread machine.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

J-Kat said:


> I do sometimes but only in the bread machine.


My sister has one of those. She loves it, and they work really well. She has severe rheumatoid arthritis in her hands, but she loves to make bread, so that machine helps her out a lot.


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## PamfromTx (Aug 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Sweet rolls, crescent butter rolls, 3-seed loaf, rustic white rounds, potato bread, raisin bread, and cinnamon rolls.
> 
> I make really good biscuits, too. (not to be confused with cookies. If we're talking cookies, I make a mean shortbread...not to be confused with bread)


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 11, 2021)

No!

I always got the urge to make bread, cinnamon buns and pizza when it was snowing and blowing outside.  It was all from one basic white bread recipe.

I also used to make this 60s Dilly Casserole Bread.  It’s best when it’s still warm but the leftovers make a nice crunchy chewy toast.

https://www.pillsbury.com/recipes/dilly-casserole-bread/09f13299-9889-4990-855f-41d7dd3d6847


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## Tish (Aug 11, 2021)

Not so much bread as Scones, both savory and sweet.


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## Gaer (Aug 11, 2021)

hey, Senior Chef, Tell us what YOU like to make?  What's your signature dish?
What is YOUR favorite bread to make?


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## dobielvr (Aug 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Sweet rolls, crescent butter rolls, 3-seed loaf, rustic white rounds, potato bread, raisin bread, and cinnamon rolls.
> 
> I make really good biscuits, too. (not to be confused with cookies. If we're talking cookies, I make a mean shortbread...not to be confused with bread)


Wait a minute...you make all this from scratch???
Damm dude, you're talented.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

Tish said:


> Not so much bread as Scones, both savory and sweet.


My Irish grandma made scones. I liked her sweet ones. If I remember right she put anise seeds in it but then she brushed them generously with sugar-water when they came out of the oven. Man, they were yummy!


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## dobielvr (Aug 11, 2021)

I come from a family that makes Armenian bread.  We have a bakery here in town.....but I can't even bake cookies.  lol

I do have a bread machine, but I think I forgot to spray some kind of oil in side the mold, and couldn't get the bread out.  I still have the machine tho...


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

dobielvr said:


> Wait a minute...you make all this from scratch???
> Damm dude, you're talented.


I use my mom and grandmother's recipes. My kids' favorite was always the crescent butter rolls. I always made those for Christmas and Thanksgiving.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

dobielvr said:


> I come from a family that makes Armenian bread.  We have a bakery here in town.....but I can't even bake cookies.  lol
> 
> I do have a bread machine, but I think I forgot to spray some kind of oil in side the mold, and couldn't get the bread out.  I still have the machine tho...


I bet instructions are online. Probly some youtube vids are out there too. Try again!


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## win231 (Aug 11, 2021)

If I could eat more bread, I would.  I remember the intoxicating smell when I walked into a friend's house & he was baking bread.
I also have trouble driving by a bakery; I can smell it from my closed car.........


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

win231 said:


> If I could eat more bread, I would.  I remember the intoxicating smell when I walked into a friend's house & he was baking bread.
> I also have trouble driving by a bakery; I can smell it from my closed car.........


I believe in the old adage "Bread; the staff of life", but only if it doesn't come from a factory.


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## dobielvr (Aug 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I bet instructions are online. Probly some youtube vids are out there too. Try again!


I should...I love the way the house smells with the aroma of the bread cooking.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

dobielvr said:


> I should...I love the way the house smells with the aroma of the bread cooking.


Yes, very enticing.

My sister even makes rolls stuffed with meat using the machine. With those, the machine just pretty much does the hard part for her.


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## J-Kat (Aug 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> My sister has one of those. She loves it, and they work really well. She has severe rheumatoid arthritis in her hands, but she loves to make bread, so that machine helps her out a lot.


I use it for no other reason than I am too lazy to do the kneading required.  I like to set it on timed delay at night and I wake up to the delicious smell of fresh baked bread in the morning.  Might need to do that tonight.  Yeast and bread flour are two items that were not on the grocery shelves during the Covid lockdown but I’m stocked up now.


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## J-Kat (Aug 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Yes, very enticing.
> 
> My sister even makes rolls stuffed with meat using the machine. With those, the machine just pretty much does the hard part for her.



That sounds wonderful.  I got addicted to meat pies when I lived in south Louisiana.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Aug 11, 2021)

I bake three loafs of coconut bread about six times a year. I grate the coconut myself. Can't stand package coconut. Don't have a bread machine so I do the kneading by hand.

Before COVID, I cruised several times per year. One of the highlights was my morning exercise on the wrap-around promenade deck. Every lap as I passed aft of the ship, the aroma from the bakery was intoxicating. It always made me walk faster since I knew breakfast was next.


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## cdestroyer (Aug 11, 2021)

on occasion white bread in bread machine and when I feel outdoorsy I make bannock.


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## Aneeda72 (Aug 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Sweet rolls, crescent butter rolls, 3-seed loaf, rustic white rounds, potato bread, raisin bread, and cinnamon rolls.
> 
> I make really good biscuits, too. (not to be confused with cookies. If we're talking cookies, I make a mean shortbread...not to be confused with bread)


Show off .  (Joking, just joking). I didn’t cook much but I baked a lot.  Which is why I got fat.  . Have not baked in years but sadly I learned to buy stuff from a bakery.


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## MickaC (Aug 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Sweet rolls, crescent butter rolls, 3-seed loaf, rustic white rounds, potato bread, raisin bread, and cinnamon rolls.
> 
> I make really good biscuits, too. (not to be confused with cookies. If we're talking cookies, I make a mean shortbread...not to be confused with bread)


Do you do baking house calls ?


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Show off . (Joking, just joking). I didn’t cook much but I baked a lot. Which is why I got fat. . Have not baked in years but sadly I learned to buy stuff from a bakery.


I only cook because I have to but I love to bake. It hurts my back, tho, so I use a chair whenever I can and sometimes I wear a brace.

Michelle does most of the cooking now, which is awesome. I do the housekeeping.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

cdestroyer said:


> on occasion white bread in bread machine and when I feel outdoorsy I make bannock.


A favorite of my Irish aunts.


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## RadishRose (Aug 11, 2021)

I would, but then I'd eat nothing but bread. I like the no knead type that you put in a Dutch oven to bake. 

My friend makes this kind every day. Sometimes with cheese or onions and garlic or dill; he's very creative.


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## PamfromTx (Aug 11, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Yes, very enticing.
> 
> My sister even makes rolls stuffed with meat using the machine. With those, the machine just pretty much does the hard part for her.


Do you make tortillas?  Please say no!   I don't even know how to make them and I'm Mexican American.


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## Llynn (Aug 11, 2021)

OK you lot! I gained five pounds just reading this thread.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 11, 2021)

PamfromTx said:


> Do you make tortillas?  Please say no!   I don't even know how to make them and I'm Mexican American.


No. I've never made tortillas. And I'm not just saying that.


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## Aneeda72 (Aug 11, 2021)

PamfromTx said:


> Do you make tortillas?  Please say no!   I don't even know how to make them and I'm Mexican American.


Since I have Native American blood-The Native American way-after you plant the corn, and water the corn, and pick the corn; you grind the corn in a bowl, add water, mix, throw the whole mess in the garbage, and run down to the Walmart to buy some.  . Never could master it.


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## Devi (Aug 11, 2021)

We were making bread (in a Zojirushi bread machine) but have stopped for a while, as it _did_ put on weight. Dang!


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## Jules (Aug 11, 2021)

Decades ago I made fresh bread every day.  No desire any more because the slices are too fat and then I become the same way.


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## cdestroyer (Aug 11, 2021)

in me younger days I kept a homemade sourdough fix made the traditional way with potato water. I left it unattended oncet and it cooled down to much and stopped fermenting....I think I stopped hiking about then also!!


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## Ruth n Jersey (Aug 11, 2021)

I have been making bread for years and make several loaves around the holidays.
As a child I baked before I learned how to cook. 
I love working with yeast, its so satisfying.
I was diagnosed with celiac disease over 30 years ago and now make my own gluten free bread. I make several loaves, slice it up and freeze the slices.
It lasts me a long time. If I had to eat store bought gluten free bread I'd rather not eat it at all.

I prefer using my kitchen aid mixer with the dough hook attachment. It saves a lot of kneading. I get it to the point where it doesn't stick to the bowl then finish it up by hand. That way it doesn't require to much added flour for kneading and I think it rises more,

I have a bread machine but when I make a loaf for the holidays or to give to someone I don't like the hole the blades cause in the bottom of the loaf,


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## MickaC (Aug 11, 2021)

Llynn said:


> OK you lot! I gained five pounds just reading this thread.


I'm with @LIynn.......this thread is murder on waistlines.
But
Everything sounds so inviting and yummy.


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## MickaC (Aug 11, 2021)

Yes i've done my share of bread making......old fashion way.....also with a bread machine.....very seldom bake in it, use it for mixing and rising.
Like a lot of us, the bread attaches to us, but doesn't detach very well.
I do treat myself sometimes and get out the yeast and flour.

Did the donuts, fritters, and all sorts of things to die for.

ohhhhh.........how could i forget......Cinnamon buns!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm no way near your baking skills, but love to hear about your passion  @Murrmurr


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## Devi (Aug 11, 2021)

MickaC said:


> Like a lot of us, the bread attaches to us, but doesn't detach very well.


Ain't that the truth!


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## hollydolly (Aug 11, 2021)

Tish said:


> Not so much bread as Scones, both savory and sweet.


me too...I prefer to make them home-made because the shop bought ones always give me horrible heartburn


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## Gary O' (Aug 11, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I am curious to know if anyone, besides myself, still makes their own bread ?


Yes, of course

My lady has yet to stop
(pretty much a 52 year career....no retirement in sight)

Even up in the mountains, at our off grid cabin
(BBQ ovens are not just for show)













senior chef said:


> If yes, what do you make ?


She makes it......good

I make it....disappear


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## senior chef (Aug 12, 2021)

Gaer said:


> hey, Senior Chef, Tell us what YOU like to make?  What's your signature dish?
> What is YOUR favorite bread to make?


I love to bake. But the ones I make to most often are, a Big Fat Italian bread, soft on the inside and crispy on the outside. I also usually make baguetttes, batards, soft rolls, biscuits, and banana-nut bread. Also, very often I make my own pizza dough.
For the Italian loaves and the batards and the baguettes, I always make my own pre-ferments which I set aside for 12 hours to develop the good "bacterias".
For the Italian loaves and the batards I always use my clay bread bakers.
PS: I almost always use King Arthur's un-bleached bread flour, except for the biscuits, and then i use White Lilly flour.
I would have included photos but I have not yet figured out how to do that on this forum.


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2021)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> I prefer using my kitchen aid mixer with the dough hook attachment. It saves a lot of kneading. I get it to the point where it doesn't stick to the bowl then finish it up by hand. That way it doesn't require to much added flour for kneading and I think it rises more,


Same here. When the weather is cooler I bake bread.  These days I indulge in whole wheat lavash or bagels.  Will start baking bread again when the temperatures drop.


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## Gaer (Aug 12, 2021)

senior chef said:


> I love to bake. But the ones I make to most often are, a Big Fat Italian bread, soft on the inside and crispy on the outside. I also usually make baguetttes, batards, soft rolls, biscuits, and banana-nut bread. Also, very often I make my own pizza dough.
> For the Italian loaves and the batards and the baguettes, I always make my own pre-ferments which I set aside for 12 hours to develop the good "bacterias".
> For the Italian loaves and the batards I always use my clay bread bakers.
> PS: I almost always use King Arthur's un-bleached bread flour, except for the biscuits, and then i use White Lilly flour.
> I would have included photos but I have not yet figured out how to do that on this forum.


Do you add non-fat dry milk to get extra softness?
Do you use a "starter" on your Italian bread?
So, You don't make sourdough bread?
I've got the King Arthur flours and stuff, but my starter won't last through the winter, too cold!
Can this be made without "starter"?
What do you do to get the extra-hard, crunchy crust? What's the secret?


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## senior chef (Aug 12, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Do you add non-fat dry milk to get extra softness?
> Do you use a "starter" on your Italian bread?
> So, You don't make sourdough bread?
> I've got the King Arthur flours and stuff, but my starter won't last through the winter, too cold!
> ...


For softness in certain breads, like soft rolls I use milk and butter but not non-fat milk. It works fine for me.

Starter is a term that specifically refers to making sour dough. I use a "PRE-FERMENT called a BIGA for my Italian bread. A BIGA is used to create a stronger gluten and results in a taller loaf AND, of course it adds much more flavor. I make my BIGA. It takes aprox 12-14 hours depending upon kitchen temp.
Back in the days when I cooked for special parties, I made sour dough. BUT, now all of my old friends have passed on and I no longer bother.

No, you can not make sour dough without making a STARTER, first.  PS: There is a bakery in San Francisco, that has kept its starter alive for 170 years.

The secret of getting a super hard crunchy crust is STEAM and TEMPERTURE. Professional bakeries have special ovens that in inject steam into the ovens at the VERY BEGINNING OF THE BAKING PROCESS. You can never precisely duplicate that process at home BUT there are some tricks that do a decent job.  Try this: when you turn on your oven and set the temperature on ultra high, place a heavy cast iron pan on the floor of your oven. When you have reached maximum temperature and are ready to bake your loaf, put your loaf in the oven and MOVING VERY, VERY QUICKLY, TOSS A HANDFUL OF ICE CUBES INTO THE CAST IRON PAN AND IMMEDIATELY SHUT THE DOOR. More ice cubes is NOT BETTER. DO NOT OPEN OVEN DOOR UNTIL BREAD IS NEAR THE END OF BAKING. DO NOT REMOVE BREAD UNTIL YOU GET PRECISELY THE CRUST COLOR YOU DESIRE.  : )
PS: if you are going to use a clay baker with lid this method will NOT WORK.  

I hope this answers your questions. Think positive and keep testing . : )


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## Tom 86 (Aug 12, 2021)

Does anyone have a good "TASTY" Keto or low carb. recipe for a bread machine?


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## Oris Borloff (Aug 12, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Do you add non-fat dry milk to get extra softness?
> Do you use a "starter" on your Italian bread?
> So, You don't make sourdough bread?
> I've got the King Arthur flours and stuff, but my starter won't last through the winter, too cold!
> ...


Gaer,

How cold does your house get in the winter?  I used to bake sourdough bread pretty much every week.  I would keep my starter in the refrigerator  for 5 days and feed it a couple of times the day before I planned to bake.   I was thinking that you could devise an l incubator box with a small light bulb for heat, or leave your starter in a closed oven with the light on for the period of the starter  or if you're baking everyday or two could be its winter home.  Maybe someone here has a suggestion that would even work better for you?

Were you using high hydration dough, meaning there was a larger proportion of water to flour?  If you are familiar with the no knead method of bread making, that's a high hydration dough.   Baking it in a closed dutch oven keeps the moisture contained and that allows the crust to gelatinize, then removing the lid it crisps up.  It's mimicking the steam injector process.  Very similar effect from clay bakers.

My ideal baguette , yeast leavened not sour dough, would have  a light fluffy interior like cotton candy and the crust would be crisp and be thin and shatter when one would bite into it like a soft serve ice cream cone dipped in chocolate.   No matter how many times I'd try different things, I never got the crust to what I was looking for.  Got crunchy and great flavor, never got the thin crispy crust I sought to emulate.

Due to dietary changes I don't do sourdough much anymore.  I tried to get back to it last year, but wasn't baking enough to even use the discards from feeding it.  These days a we eat less bread and what I make is home milled whole grain which while very good is a different critter all together.


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## Gaer (Aug 12, 2021)

Oris and Senior Chef, Thank you both so much for answering my questions!  Wow!
You guys are AMAZING!


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## Remy (Aug 16, 2021)

I haven't but some day I want to. I have made pizza dough from scratch though I find trader joe's bagged dough just about as good. 

I've made drop biscuits. I don't think that counts.


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## oldiebutgoody (Aug 26, 2021)

While I am generally  a good cook and baker, when it comes to bread I just plain stink.  Every time I try to make bread it comes out so bad you wouldn't give it to a dog.  And if you did you'd get arrested for animal cruelty.  Hopefully, some day Santa Claus will send me a really good bread maker and I'll finally make a nice loaf or two.


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## senior chef (Aug 26, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> While I am generally  a good cook and baker, when it comes to bread I just plain stink.  Every time I try to make bread it comes out so bad you wouldn't give it to a dog.  And if you did you'd get arrested for animal cruelty.  Hopefully, some day Santa Claus will send me a really good bread maker and I'll finally make a nice loaf or two.


Sorry to hear that. If you follow a few simple rules, bread making is easy.  First, and foremost, measure your ingredients with a gram scale. Good bread making is a PRECISE activity.


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## RadishRose (Aug 26, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> While I am generally  a good cook and baker, when it comes to bread I just plain stink.  Every time I try to make bread it comes out so bad you wouldn't give it to a dog.  And if you did you'd get arrested for animal cruelty.  Hopefully, some day Santa Claus will send me a really good bread maker and I'll finally make a nice loaf or two.


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## oldiebutgoody (Aug 26, 2021)

senior chef said:


> bread making is a PRECISE activity







> radishrose ~ no knead




Have tried it but without success.  Mebbe some day.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 1, 2022)

Well, I finally tried making artisan bread using a cold oven to bake rather than hot (as in 450-500F) to bake. I watched a couple of videos where they tried that and is suprised people that it worked so well. They achieved good oven spring and a more tender crust and great crumb. Here's a picture of my effort. Not so great result on oven spring. Decent crumb. And so so on crust. You can't really see it that well, but it is more flat basically showing it did not get good enough oven spring. However, I would think it was not because of the way I baked it (425F oven and starting it cold), I am thinking the scoring I did on top let too much of the gases out. The bottom skews to the burnt side and I suspect it's because I kept it in too long (50 minutes, but in a cold oven plus 10 more to darken the crust. Next time I will score bread on top lengthwise (not so deep) and start it in a hot oven (450F) for less time. If this doesn't post well, it's because I am not familiar with using social media to communicate like this and trying to figure it out the best I can.

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## Devi (Mar 1, 2022)

Wow, @pkuchnicki! Regardless, it looks good! (And welcome to the forums.)


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## caroln (Mar 1, 2022)

Does zucchini bread count?  I have a killer recipe for that!

I love homemade bread but never make it because I'd weigh 300 pounds.


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## Trish (Mar 1, 2022)

I don't eat much bread but occasionally I make a small loaf in the breadmaker.  Sometimes I make a pizza base, flat bread or rolls by making the dough in the bread maker and then dividing it up or rolling it out and baking it in the oven.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 1, 2022)

As a defender of bread, meat has more calories per ounce than bread.  Get skinny, eat bread!


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## caroln (Mar 1, 2022)

pkuchnicki said:


> As a defender of bread, meat has more calories per ounce than bread.  Get skinny, eat bread!


Does that include all the butter, mayo, and/or jam we tend to put on top of the bread?


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 1, 2022)

Probably not, but at least some of it and there are low cal choices.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 2, 2022)

caroln said:


> Does that include all the butter, mayo, and/or jam we tend to put on top of the bread?


I don't know.  Is there something wrong using olive oil, Italian seasonings, and parmesan cheese?  And of course a great cup of coffee.


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## MountainRa (Mar 2, 2022)

if anyone is interested in using a bread machine just for kneading the dough this is a good site.

https://saladinajar.com/recipes/bread-machine-recipes/


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 2, 2022)

senior chef said:


> I am curious to know if anyone, besides myself, still makes their own bread ?  If yes, what do you make ?


Hello, Senior Chef.  I do make my own bread.  Almost always by hand (no knead style); love batards, baguettes, focaccia, fougasse, and ciabatta.


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## Alligatorob (Mar 2, 2022)

senior chef said:


> Does anyone still make their own bread ?


I am lucky to be able to buy my own...


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## Leann (Mar 2, 2022)

I make my own bread, scones, biscuits, cookies, cakes, pies ....


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## AnnieA (Mar 2, 2022)

Not yeast breads anymore.  There was a time that I did and found the process relaxing and very rewarding.  Now I mostly make gluten free quick breads.


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## Lavinia (Mar 2, 2022)

I'm another one who makes bread in a machine, but only in warm weather. They don't work so well in a cold room and my kitchen is always cold.


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## J-Kat (Mar 3, 2022)

Bread machine only.  Too much work for my lazy self otherwise.


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## senior chef (Mar 3, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> I'm another one who makes bread in a machine, but only in warm weather. They don't work so well in a cold room and my kitchen is always cold.


Just for general information, using any of the pre-ferments has a tremendous flavor increase in the bread.  Depending upon the temperature of the kitchen, different types of good bacteria will develop. 
Good bread can NOT be rushed. Time fermenting is THE critical factor.


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## terry123 (Mar 3, 2022)

I make great homemade biscuits.  When the kids were home I made bread and also used a bread machine.  Too much trouble for just one now!


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## Ruthanne (Mar 3, 2022)

I've never made bread and now I'm thinking of trying it.  Any tips for me?


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 4, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> I've never made bread and now I'm thinking of trying it.  Any tips for me?


Yes.  First of all, do it.  Second, use a no knead method as it is far less work and produces excellent results.  Third, no matter how ugly the bread comes out (assuming worst case), it will inevitably be delicious.  Here is a link to a video which got me started years ago and pretty much kick started the no knead movement:


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## JonSR77 (Mar 4, 2022)

Good Bread Recipe Book from the 1970s

(someone put the whole thing online, free)

(some dessert recipes also)

https://www.xedizioni.it/Numeri-due/Tassajara-bread-book-p.pdf


I have done some baking, but not recently.  Worked in two bakeries over the years.  One place, we had a nice sesame-millet bread and a good cinnamon raisin bread.  The other place did a lot of healthy breads.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 5, 2022)

So, after making an artisan loaf, roasting your own coffee, you pull it all together and have a superb breakfast!  The savory taste of a freshly brewed coffee lingering on your palette joined by crispy bread with a pillowy texture and, of course, fried cheese........  Can you almost taste it?


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## fuzzybuddy (Mar 5, 2022)

One of the things i will always remember was the day my grandmother found out her daughters didn't bake their own bread. I was small. Somehow it came out that her 5 daughters did not bake their own bread. My grandmother was all upset. She kept saying, "If you don't make your own bread, what the hell do you do all day long?" Her daughters had just gone the way of the world!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 5, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> One of the things i will always remember was the day my grandmother found out her daughters didn't bake their own bread. I was small. Somehow it came out that her 5 daughters did not bake their own bread. My grandmother was all upset. She kept saying, "If you don't make your own bread, what the hell do you do all day long?" Her daughters had just gone the way of the world!!!!!!!!!!!!


Classic!  Wonderful story.  

I didn't bake my own bread for years because I was under the wrong impression it took too much work.  It wasn't until I retired that I found out how little work it can be unless you really work to make it harder.


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## Devi (Mar 5, 2022)

As I said earlier in the thread, we make our own bread ... in a Zojirushi bread machine. Love it; it's pretty much "set it and forget it" ... does the mixing, rising, kneading (and I think rising again?) and then baking by itself.

But one thing I'll say is ... bread is NOT a diet food. <sob!>


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## StarSong (Mar 5, 2022)

I bake (mostly whole wheat) bread regularly now that the temps have dropped.  Always use my heavy-duty Kitchen Aid mixer for the kneading, always make a biga (pre-ferment) 1-2 days before baking day.  

For a crisp crust I preheat the oven and a covered dutch oven for 30 minutes, then place the (round) loaf the dutch oven, spritz with 3 sprays of water, cover and bake for 20 minutes. Then remove the top and bake about 20 minutes more. When it's the right color I double check the internal temp of the bread (210°). 

Remove from the oven and let the loaf cool on a stove top's (unlit) gas burner. If I'm baking two loves, I reheat the dutch oven for a few minutes, then repeat the process for the second loaf. 

Oh, and I almost always use parchment paper.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 5, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I bake (mostly whole wheat) bread regularly now that the temps have dropped.  Always use my heavy-duty Kitchen Aid mixer for the kneading, always make a biga (pre-ferment) 1-2 days before baking day.
> 
> For a crisp crust I preheat the oven and a covered dutch oven for 30 minutes, then place the (round) loaf the dutch oven, spritz with 3 sprays of water, cover and bake for 20 minutes. Then remove the top and bake about 20 minutes more. When it's the right color I double check the internal temp of the bread (210°).
> 
> ...


I have used the same process many times.  I also experiment a lot.  For example, this afternoon/evening I will try the cold oven method where I put the dough in a cold pan, turn on the heat to 450F and bake for 50 minutes; check the coloring and remove the lid if somewhat brown.  Then heat another 10-20 minutes to get a really brown look.  It doesn't hurt that I use either Diastic Malt Powder or Polydextrose to nudge it a bit browner.  This will be my third experiment using the cold oven technique.  First time the results were awesome.  Second time not so much, but I suspect I ended up opening a seam which caused the bread not to get good oven spring.


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## StarSong (Mar 5, 2022)

pkuchnicki said:


> I have used the same process many times.  I also experiment a lot.  For example, this afternoon/evening *I will try the cold oven method where I put the dough in a cold pan, turn on the heat to 450F and bake for 50 minutes; check the coloring and remove the lid if somewhat brown.  Then heat another 10-20 minutes to get a really brown look.  *It doesn't hurt that I use either Diastic Malt Powder or Polydextrose to nudge it a bit browner.  This will be my third experiment using the cold oven technique.  First time the results were awesome.  Second time not so much, but I suspect I ended up opening a seam which caused the bread not to get good oven spring.


What's the advantage to using a cold oven if it turns out that the oven is on for the same amount of time anyway?

I use a bit of low diastatic malt powder in my pizza dough, haven't yet tried it in bread dough. How much do you typically use? I've never worked with polydextrose (which appears to be a sweetener). Is one better than the other?


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 5, 2022)

StarSong said:


> What's the advantage to using a cold oven if it turns out that the oven is on for the same amount of time anyway?
> 
> I use a bit of low diastatic malt powder in my pizza dough, haven't yet tried it in bread dough. How much do you typically use? I've never worked with polydextrose (which appears to be a sweetener). Is one better than the other?


Some of the better quality flours already have diastatic malt powder included (like King Arthur and, if I am remembering correctly, Gold Medal Flour.)  The way I understand it is that DMP promotes better browning and aids in oven spring.  The guidelines I have seen call for around .3-.7% DMP or 1% Polydextrose.  I haven't used them enough to say with any experience that one is better than the other.  As the yeast finish consuming toward the end of their cycle, DMP or Polydextrose provide more simple sugars as opposed to starchy sugars thereby enabling more coloring during the Maillard reaction.

The early stuff I learned about baking called for preheating the oven to about 500F for one hour with a baking stone or dutch oven then reducing the temp to 450F once the dough is added.  Based on my experience with the resulting crust and other posts I have read, I have reduced that preheat to 450F.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 5, 2022)

pkuchnicki said:


> Some of the better quality flours already have diastatic malt powder included (like King Arthur and, if I am remembering correctly, Gold Medal Flour.)  The way I understand it is that DMP promotes better browning and aids in oven spring.  The guidelines I have seen call for around .3-.7% DMP or 1% Polydextrose.  I haven't used them enough to say with any experience that one is better than the other.  As the yeast finish consuming toward the end of their cycle, DMP or Polydextrose provide more simple sugars as opposed to starchy sugars thereby enabling more coloring during the Maillard reaction.
> 
> The early stuff I learned about baking called for preheating the oven to about 500F for one hour with a baking stone or dutch oven then reducing the temp to 450F once the dough is added.  Based on my experience with the resulting crust and other posts I have read, I have reduced that preheat to 450F.


Not quite certain yet about the time, but putting the dough in cold would slowly heat the dough generating a much slower over spring thereby delaying the onset of the crust hardening and elongating the oven spring.  But, this will only be my third time so there is still much to be confirmed and learned.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 6, 2022)

Third attempt at making bread starting in a cold oven.....   Bread still good with nice color, but, seams are not holding up causing gas to leak resulting in less oven spring.  Need to revisit and rethink what I am doing.  As you can see from the picture, the left side of the bread ruptured.  When fully cooled will test whether the bread "sings" and how the crumb turned out.


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## StarSong (Mar 6, 2022)

@pkuchnicki, Thanks for keeping us in the loop on this adventure.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 6, 2022)

So after letting the bread cool down for a couple of hours, here are some more pictures.
My thoughts: first the crumb was decent considering that the bread had somewhat degassed; second: the color was good - nice brown color; and third: some dark (burnt) spots on the bottom suggesting that is was either baked a tad too long or at too high a temperature (450F) or a combination of both.

The crumb was very creamy and pillowy resulting from a cooler bake (and possibly from my adding some clarified butter (6g).

So, I do conclude that baking bread starting in a cold oven absolutely produces good bread.  Still have some work to do.  In a following but related post I will provide details on ingredients and the process I used.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 6, 2022)

I decided to make a 75% hydration loaf with the following ingredients and amounts.

300 grams of King Arthur Organic unbleached bread flour at 12.7% protein.
150.1 grams of spring water
64.3 grams of a pilsner beer (Budweiser)
10.6 grams of distilled white vinegar
1.8 grams of SAF red yeast
6.0 grams of Morton's Kosher salt
3.0 grams of Diastatic Malt powder
6.0 grams of clarified butter
0.12 grams of Ascorbic acid (vitamin c)


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 6, 2022)

This is the process I used to make a cold start baked loaf:

Measured and combined the dry ingredients take care to full mix after adding yeast.  Add salt last and stirred well to mix well.
I then combine the liquids into a container and added that to the dry ingredients.

To mix these together, my weapon of choice is a Danish wisk making sure all the resulting dough has been moistened.  Takes about 5 minutes.  Before stopping I wet my hands with water and "smoosh" (technical jargon) the dough to verify there are no dry pockets (takes less than one minute).  I then cover and let sit for around one hour.  This is known as an autolyze.

I follow this immediately with a set of stretch and folds (takes about 15 seconds); I rest dough for about 20 minutes then do three more stretch and folds followed by a 20 minute rest after each S&F. After the third rest I do a window pane test to insure gluten has been adequately developed.  If not I add another S&F until gluten displays evidence of development. 

After gluten is developed, I let it ferment, covered and at room temperature, for another 2 hours.

After that, I cover and place in the fridge to develop flavor overnight.  

Remainder is in next post.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 6, 2022)

Anyway, to cut out some of the intermediary details, the bread making process for instant hot oven bread baking vs cold start bread baking is the same.

The difference is that for baking in a cold oven, use your tools (I use a Challenger bread pan) and turn oven on to 450F and leave in for 50 minutes (revised down to 45 minutes after three tries at this), then uncover and bake till a nice brown color has been attained.  After 45 covered and about an 5-10 minute uncovered bake, take out and place on a metal rack to cool for about 2 hours.  I am very happy with the moist texture and feel of the crumb, so I am only shortening the BAKING TIME to try and remove the very few burnt looking spots.

Note, as I am doing this and making adjustments, I will update with any significant changes I introduce.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 6, 2022)

I did forget to add that I am revising the amount of flour used from 300g to 250g.  The former was barely able to fit in the bread pan.  So 250 should give it a bit more room.


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## Shero (Mar 6, 2022)

pkuchnicki said:


> I did forget to add that I am revising the amount of flour used from 300g to 250g.  The former was barely able to fit in the bread pan.  So 250 should give it a bit more room.



I must say I enjoy your great efforts in bread making. I too use dough straight from the fridge using a cold oven to make baguettes and I am trained in French cuisine.
.


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 7, 2022)

Shero said:


> I must say I enjoy your great efforts in bread making. I too use dough straight from the fridge using a cold oven to make baguettes and I am trained in French cuisine.
> .


Really glad to see someone else who has done this.  Do you have anything you can add, such as your temperature choice, your baking time (covered and uncovered), and advice and tips?


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## Shero (Mar 7, 2022)

pkuchnicki said:


> Really glad to see someone else who has done this.  Do you have anything you can add, such as your temperature choice, your baking time (covered and uncovered), and advice and tips?


You are doing so well, that I do not think I could add much. As in most things, it’s trial and error. May I suggest though, a lower temperature for the oven. I usually set the oven to 365 and bake for 30-40 minutes. Then turn the oven off and leave the bread in the hot oven for another 15 minutes or so, again checking before putting on wire rack to cool.

With the scoring of the loaf may I suggest to prevent it having a dent in the side, using a lame might help and also don't hold the top of the loaf, but gently steady it from the end of the loaf. Maybe you already do all these things and I am only repeating what you already know!

 I love bread, so save me some next time!


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## pkuchnicki (Mar 7, 2022)

Shero said:


> You are doing so well, that I do not think I could add much. As in most things, it’s trial and error. May I suggest though, a lower temperature for the oven. I usually set the oven to 365 and bake for 30-40 minutes. Then turn the oven off and leave the bread in the hot oven for another 15 minutes or so, again checking before putting on wire rack to cool.
> 
> With the scoring of the loaf may I suggest to prevent it having a dent in the side, using a lame might help and also don't hold the top of the loaf, but gently steady it from the end of the loaf. Maybe you already do all these things and I am only repeating what you already know!
> 
> I love bread, so save me some next time!


You got it!  Thank you!


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