# Couple Fined For Refusing To Host Gay Wedding



## Davey Jones (Aug 31, 2014)

What the hell is this country coming too?? 
I dont care that much about gays but they have a right to live their lives the way they see fit.
But to keep shoving their believes on us non gays down our throats, Im going to have to move them down a few notches if I keep hearing stories like this.

http://news.yahoo.com/couple-fined-refusing-host-gay-wedding-shuts-down-193206210.html





http://news.yahoo.com/couple-fined-refusing-host-gay-wedding-shuts-down-193206210.html


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## Falcon (Aug 31, 2014)

Same here Davey.


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## Misty (Aug 31, 2014)

That's a shame their religious rights were not honored by the judge. They were going to host the reception, just not the wedding. The same thing happened not long ago, when a gay couple wanted a bakery to bake them a wedding cake, and they refused, and the gays sued them. The judge said they could not refuse and if I remember correctly, they were fined too, so they quit making wedding cakes.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 31, 2014)

I don't think that Christians should shove their beliefs down any of our throats either Davey.  When these people run a business to serve the public, they are not supposed to discriminate against disability, race, sex, marital status or ****** orientation.

If they want to practice their religion of Christianity, that is their personal decision and should not interfere with a business or service that is supposed to serve the public.  Picking and choosing who they want to serve and who they don't can go on and on, not only restricted to gay couples.  I guess if they found out a customer used birth control, or had an abortion, they would refuse service to them because of their religious beliefs?  Leave your religion at home, if you want to profit from running a business that serves the public, then serve the public already, and stop playing games to make some kind of a point.

That joker who ran the bakery that refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, had no problem making a wedding cake for a dog wedding.  He didn't have to marry them or go into the bedroom with them, he just had to throw together some flour and water, etc., and make a cake, that was his business, making cakes for the public and selling them for profit.

Characters like this like to hide behind their religions, to disguise their acting on their prejudices in the marketplace.  Then they go off and pout, because they didn't get their way.  The baker is just not longer going to make wedding cakes, and these other "Christians" are just not going to host any events any more, so there!


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## Ina (Aug 31, 2014)

I have a grandson who is gay, and I felt he was by the time he was six. But because of public opinion, he hates himself and and whatever made him that way. His denial takes on the form of physical fighting, and anything he thinks makes him more manly. 
It hurts me that he can't except who he is, and I have cautioned him not to marry, and bring children into his hatred of himself. :sad:


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 31, 2014)

That is a sad situation Ina.  I'm not gay, and I don't have any homosexual people in my family, but I can see how the hatred of others could affect his self-esteem and his whole quality of life.  People are too judgmental, and unaccepting of those who are not like themselves, IMO.


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## Misty (Aug 31, 2014)

From what I read, same sex marriage has been banned in Colorado since 2006, and  recently the courts in Colorado declared same sex marriage bans were unconstitutional, but the rulings have been stayed, so the couple were not legally allowed to be married in Colorado. Were they going to transport the cake to another state, instead of just buying one in another state?


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## Ina (Aug 31, 2014)

Sea, He is 24, and I just hope that maturity will allow him to see a better way for himself.


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## ClassicRockr (Aug 31, 2014)

Well, just another highly controversial thing dealing with the Gay & Lesbian community. IMO, the couple had the right to not do the wedding due to their Christian beliefs. But, it does seem odd that they would allow the Reception. We don't believe in Gay Marriage and that is our choice to feel that way. As for me, I use to work for a Lesbian couple, in-charge of their horse boarding stables. But, when boarders started giving them some slack for walking around holding hands and arms around each other, it was time for this dude to move on. I didn't like seeing this "out-in-the-open" affection either, but didn't say anything. 

I remember walking into a sporting goods store wearing the baseball cap of a competitor store and was asked to take the competitor's cap off. I didn't give a "hassle", just took it off and smiles and continued shopping with my wife. The way I looked at it, it was their business and if they didn't want to see a competitors baseball cap in the store, they had every right to ask me, and they did ask me nicely, to remove it. 

I believe it's up to the business owner/owners how they want to handle their business and who they want to serve. Like I said, IMO.


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## Falcon (Aug 31, 2014)

*   Ina, Maybe your grandson   isn't  gay.*


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## Ina (Aug 31, 2014)

Yeah he is, the big tip is he loves his mother, and sisters, but doesn't date girls.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 31, 2014)

Misty said:


> From what I read, same sex marriage has been banned in Colorado since 2006, and  recently the courts in Colorado declared same sex marriage bans were unconstitutional, but the rulings have been stayed, so the couple were not legally allowed to be married in Colorado. Were they going to transport the cake to another state, instead of just buying one in another state?



No, from what I understand, they wanted to marry in Massachusetts and celebrate with family and friends back home in Colorado.  They wanted to order the cake for their upcoming wedding reception.  Regardless of their plans, what business is it of the baker?   His job, according to his business, is to make cakes for his customers, not to nose into their private lives.


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## Falcon (Aug 31, 2014)

Ina, Many men love their mothers and sisters but that's not being gay.

Maybe he's just bashful around girls.  I wouldn't write him off yet as being gay.  Maybe he'll outgrow the
feelings he has.  I'd give him every chance before I'd determine that he's gay.

AND, If it turns out that he IS gay, you'll have to live with it. Most gays seem happy with their lifestyle.


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## Ina (Aug 31, 2014)

I don't care what his ****** preferences are, I just want him to let go of the self hatred. As I said I felt he showed signs of being gay way back when he was six. But he has had a step-father that humiliates him every chance he gets. I not a person that judges others for what they have no control over.


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## Falcon (Aug 31, 2014)

That's too bad about his step-father.  Poor man, has a tough row to hoe.

  Hope he can find happiness which ever way he turns out.


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## Misty (Aug 31, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> No, from what I understand, they wanted to marry in Massachusetts and celebrate with family and friends back home in Colorado.  They wanted to order the cake for their upcoming wedding reception.  Regardless of their plans, what business is it of the baker?   His job, according to his business, is to make cakes for his customers, not to nose into their private lives.



Yes, they did want to marry in Massachusetts and celebrate in Colorado, Seabreeze. They didn't sue the state for not allowing them to marry, but they sued someone whose religious beliefs were against gay marriage, and who believe marriage should be between a woman and man. There are other states who have the same beliefs that marriage should be between a man and woman and have banned gay marriages, and it should be the rights of Christians too.

There are gays who are so against religious rights, that they will go into a catholic church and throw the Holy Communions on the floor and stomp on them. There is a war going on with many activist gays against those whose religious beliefs are against gay marriage. Many times you don't have to nose into gay's private business or want to, they tell you they are gay and share their private business.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 31, 2014)

My point is, regardless of that baker's religious beliefs, he has opened a business to serve the public, and that is making cakes in exchange for money from the customers, so he should not discriminate, and I believe that's is what the law said also.  Perhaps gays wouldn't be against religious rights so intensely if the religious zealots weren't so adamant in their stance against gays?  I don't know, I'm giving my opinion due to what I have been seeing and hearing on the news, etc.  Like I say, I have no dogs in this fight.


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## TrickorTreat (Sep 1, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> My point is, regardless of that baker's religious beliefs, he has opened a business to serve the public, and that is making cakes in exchange for money from the customers, so he should not discriminate, and I believe that's is what the law said also.  Perhaps gays wouldn't be against religious rights so intensely if the religious zealots weren't so adamant in their stance against gays?  I don't know, I'm giving my opinion due to what I have been seeing and hearing on the news, etc.  Like I say, I have no dogs in this fight.



Well, we have the same problem in a part of Northern Ireland which has not legalised same sex marriage. A gay man walked into a baker shop run by a devout Christian family who do not believe in same sex marriage. They have absolutely no beef against Gays at all and happily serve one and all every day in their shop. The problem started when the customer asked a member of staff to make a cake with the wording to read "Support Same-Sex Marriage" for a event being planned at a conference for the same cause. 

Apparently the member of staff accepted the order and took the customers' money. When the son of the owner noted the wording requested on the cake he notified his father who said he would not do the cake as it would be supporting a cause that went against his religious belief and against everything that he himself believed in, that marriage was between a man and a woman only.  Apparently the shop then telephoned the customer and explained that with apologies, they would not be able to do the cake and would give him a full refund, which the customer accepted.
The family baker is now being hauled before the court as discriminating against Gays.

There is a lot of controversy over this case because it is again Religious rights against Gay rights. It is also a case of the Baker as a shopkeeper, having the right to refuse to serve a customer because of his way of life.
I personally back the Baker in this case. As he stated, he has absolutely no discrimination against Gays at all and happily serves them every day in his shop, what he is against is same-sex marriage which goes against his religion. The Gay case is that he is there to provide a service making and decorating cakes with wording and that he should not discriminate against any customer who walks in and orders a cake to be made with any wording, regardless of that wording. The baker's case is that there is no law supporting same-sex marriage, he does not believe in same sex marriage and by icing the wording onto that cake would have been tantamount to being complicit in supporting the same sex marriage cause, which he is vehemently opposed to so absolutely refused to do the order. Who is right?

My own personal opinion is that the shop keeper must have the right to refuse a customer. those that say otherwise are saying (and please do not think that I am for one moment comparing the following with same-sex marriage) that the baker should put any wording that a customer wants because he is running a business that does this so must not discriminate, so those saying this are saying that it is perfectly acceptable for someone to walk in off the street and request such wordings as say "Religion Stinks" or Paedophile's Rule" or equally vile sayings because a shopkeeper cannot discriminate against Athiest's or Paedophile groups. ???? Where does one draw the line ?

 One talks about the religious zealots but equally we have the Gay Rights zealots who take great delight in going up against people who they don't believe should have ANY rights whatsoever when it comes to their own. Is it any wonder there is such resentment by those who are Christians, whom in most cases happily accept that there are many gay Christians but simply do not believe in same-sex marriage. What about their rights or don't they count at all?


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## Jackie22 (Sep 1, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> My point is, regardless of that baker's religious beliefs, he has opened a business to serve the public, and that is making cakes in exchange for money from the customers, so he should not discriminate, and I believe that's is what the law said also.  Perhaps gays wouldn't be against religious rights so intensely if the religious zealots weren't so adamant in their stance against gays?  I don't know, I'm giving my opinion due to what I have been seeing and hearing on the news, etc.  Like I say, I have no dogs in this fight.



I agree with this, totally, its the law, if you don't want to do business with gays, blacks, Catholics, Jews or spotted dogs (whatever), don't go in business.


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## Misty (Sep 1, 2014)

I remember the controversy over the Chic-fil-a restaurant. They served gays, and they were vilified because they donated money to an organization that believes marriage should be between a man and a woman. They were told by a Boston Mayor, there were not allowed to open a store there, the mayor of Chicago told them they would not allow the restaurant to open a second restaurant to open in Chicago, same with the mayor of San Francisco. A group started a boycott of the restaurants.

It's to the point that a business is not allowed to donate money to a cause that does not go along with the thinking of gays. Is the only religious right the legality of attending church, so far?


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## WhatInThe (Sep 1, 2014)

When somebody sues or has to sue to force someone to do business with them why do business with them at all? It's seems like it's more about bullying and power. It's not like they paid a mechanic or plumber and didn't recieve good service. They are forcing the issue.


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## Justme (Sep 1, 2014)

Discriminating against gays is just as bad as racial discrimination and should be illegal!


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## TrickorTreat (Sep 1, 2014)

Justme said:


> Discriminating against gays is just as bad as racial discrimination and should be illegal!



Of course it is, just as discriminating against one's right to follow their religious belief should be treated equally. As I implied earlier, how can the Northern Ireland Baker be accused of discriminating against Gays by refusing to endorse the same sex marriage cause only. He is adamant that he is not against Gays but will not be complicit in endorsing same-sex marriage which he believes is wrong. 
I believe that Gay Rights in Northern Ireland are doing their cause no good by picking on the Bakers rights to not be involved in their cause. They are fighting to get the same-sex marriage act through but it seems to me that they are taking one step forward and two steps back because people hate bullies and this certainly seems a case of straightforward bullying ! Rights belong to everyone, not just Gays.


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## ClassicRockr (Sep 1, 2014)

Don't know about the Colorado thing (in red below), b/c of what is said below:
From the article: "The Giffords were willing to host the reception, but not the actual ceremony."

From what's in blue below: IMO, the baker, or anyone else who owns/runs a business has every right to say "I can't do that", for whatever reason, to anyone. It's just like when a business puts a Notice on their front door stating "no shirt, no shoes, NO SERVICE". Why own a business if a person doesn't have a "say so" in how they want to run it.  




SeaBreeze said:


> No, from what I understand, they wanted to marry in Massachusetts and celebrate with family and friends back home in Colorado.  They wanted to order the cake for their upcoming wedding reception.  Regardless of their plans, what business is it of the baker?   His job, according to his business, is to make cakes for his customers, not to nose into their private lives.


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## ClassicRockr (Sep 1, 2014)

Funny, from what I've seen, when some folks don't get what they want, they say the word "discrimination"........which is used way to much in today's society!

Heck, I remember some folks complaining (saying it was "discriminating") to have 55 Plus Communities. These folks say that limiting the age to 55 and over is "discriminating" toward those under that age. Even though this isn't about the Thread, it is still about using the word "discrimination".


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## Butterfly (Sep 21, 2014)

Well, I don't think a person's ****** orientation, religion, or anything else should be used to discriminate against him in a business place.  Either we are all equal or we are not -- we can't be all equal except for those who have religions or lifestyles with which we do not agree.


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## Davey Jones (Sep 21, 2014)

When the gay community start to force their belief on non gays then its time to completely ignore them,I would bake a cake for them but dont push it.


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## ClassicRockr (Sep 21, 2014)

Yes, they do have a habit of PUSHING their belief onto non gays. But, then again, some religious groups push their beliefs too much on others. Guess we just live in a society where people believe "pushing" is the only way to make their point about something.


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## Jackie22 (Sep 22, 2014)

I don't think gays are pushing their 'beliefs' on others.......homosexuality is not a belief, no more than being black is a belief, now, religion is a belief.......I think they want the SAME RIGHTS as anyone else, not for you or me to believe like they do.....they have the RIGHT to be treated (and that means buying a cake in an establishment that is open for business with the public) as anyone else.  It is my opinion that they are being discriminated against and apparently it is their opinion too.


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## Debby (Sep 22, 2014)

ClassicRockr said:


> Well, just another highly controversial thing dealing with the Gay & Lesbian community. IMO, the couple had the right to not do the wedding due to their Christian beliefs. But, it does seem odd that they would allow the Reception. We don't believe in Gay Marriage and that is our choice to feel that way. As for me, I use to work for a Lesbian couple, in-charge of their horse boarding stables. But, when boarders started giving them some slack for walking around holding hands and arms around each other, it was time for this dude to move on. I didn't like seeing this "out-in-the-open" affection either, but didn't say anything.
> 
> I remember walking into a sporting goods store wearing the baseball cap of a competitor store and was asked to take the competitor's cap off. I didn't give a "hassle", just took it off and smiles and continued shopping with my wife. The way I looked at it, it was their business and if they didn't want to see a competitors baseball cap in the store, they had every right to ask me, and they did ask me nicely, to remove it.
> 
> I believe it's up to the business owner/owners how they want to handle their business and who they want to serve. Like I said, IMO.




How about if that couple hadn't liked black people?  Would it be okay to refuse to serve a black couple?  Or what about if their religion believed woman should stay at home and only the men were allowed to do business and that bakery then refused to sell to a woman who came in to buy bread?  Is that okay?


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## Debby (Sep 22, 2014)

ClassicRockr said:


> Yes, they do have a habit of PUSHING their belief onto non gays. But, then again, some religious groups push their beliefs too much on others. Guess we just live in a society where people believe "pushing" is the only way to make their point about something.




I'll bet if you could ask, you'd find that most gay or lesbian people just want to live their lives in safety and have equal access to the law just like you do.  I had a yoga teacher for a couple years who was a lesbian and she was fabulous and no different with her partner than I am with mine(husband).  Holding hands, a peck on the cheek ..... what's the harm there?  There was also another gay couple in the town we lived in and they were real nice, regular folks.

Now if you were telling us that the couple who owned the barn were regularly throwing one another down in the hay for a romp where they intruded on the sensibilities of one and all, that would be a different thing.  But then I'd hold the same attitude on that one if it was a man and a woman.


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## Debby (Sep 22, 2014)

TrickorTreat said:


> Of course it is, just as discriminating against one's right to follow their religious belief should be treated equally. As I implied earlier, how can the Northern Ireland Baker be accused of discriminating against Gays by refusing to endorse the same sex marriage cause only. He is adamant that he is not against Gays but will not be complicit in endorsing same-sex marriage which he believes is wrong.
> I believe that Gay Rights in Northern Ireland are doing their cause no good by picking on the Bakers rights to not be involved in their cause. They are fighting to get the same-sex marriage act through but it seems to me that they are taking one step forward and two steps back because people hate bullies and this certainly seems a case of straightforward bullying ! Rights belong to everyone, not just Gays.



Then how do you propose that gay people or any group that society has a problem with, confront and cause change in the status quo?  If all the naysayers can just say no and face no consequences, is it reasonable to expect that the gay people or ? just slink away and accept their second class citizen status?  Should the black people have just accepted sitting at the back of the bus or the water fountain behind the store?  


The only way that effective change ever happens in any society is when some are courageous enough to step out and force change.  
I think it's pretty good that these people didn't just take the easy, 'less conflict' route on these issues and took the matters to court.  What they did will help in the next situation and maybe in the future, we will really have a more inclusive society that looks more at the humanity of us all than at the differences between us.  Think how peaceful that could be!  It would be a wonderful world wouldn't it?


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## Butterfly (Sep 22, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> No, from what I understand, they wanted to marry in Massachusetts and celebrate with family and friends back home in Colorado.  They wanted to order the cake for their upcoming wedding reception.  Regardless of their plans, what business is it of the baker?   His job, according to his business, is to make cakes for his customers, not to nose into their private lives.



Well said, Sea Breeze.  I totally agree.


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