# Justice



## ManjaroKDE (Dec 29, 2020)

Not much interest - delete thread


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## Gaer (Dec 29, 2020)

You sure?  I think there is a   lot of interest in Justice!


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## Aneeda72 (Dec 29, 2020)

I think there is no such thing as justice.


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## jujube (Dec 29, 2020)

How's this for "justice"?  The impaired driver who killed my sister over two years has spent exactly one night behind bars.  Now it appears that she will be permitted to plea bargain down to 27 months of "house arrest" (and the victim's advocate says she probably won't serve more than 18 months of that.  Of course, she'll be able to go to work, go to the grocery store, get her hair cut, go to church, etc.   In other words, much more than the vast majority of us have been reduced to experiencing lately and we haven't killed anyone.  Yep, that's some justice.


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## 911 (Dec 30, 2020)

jujube said:


> How's this for "justice"?  The impaired driver who killed my sister over two years has spent exactly one night behind bars.  Now it appears that she will be permitted to plea bargain down to 27 months of "house arrest" (and the victim's advocate says she probably won't serve more than 18 months of that.  Of course, she'll be able to go to work, go to the grocery store, get her hair cut, go to church, etc.   In other words, much more than the vast majority of us have been reduced to experiencing lately and we haven't killed anyone.  Yep, that's some justice.


That’s a terrible thing to have happen to not only the victim, but also the family. My condolences to you and your family.

What impaired her? Have you had a one on one with the D.A. or Prosecutor? Also, I would send the judge a letter letting him know how your sister’s death has affected you and your family and if you can get other family members and friends to also send a letter, it may help to convince him that you are seeking justice for your sister and not necessarily revenge.

Keep in mind, “The squeaky wheel gets the grease.” Good luck.


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## Butterfly (Dec 31, 2020)

911 said:


> That’s a terrible thing to have happen to not only the victim, but also the family. My condolences to you and your family.
> 
> What impaired her? Have you had a one on one with the D.A. or Prosecutor? Also, I would send the judge a letter letting him know how your sister’s death has affected you and your family and if you can get other family members and friends to also send a letter, it may help to convince him that you are seeking justice for your sister and not necessarily revenge.
> 
> Keep in mind, “The squeaky wheel gets the grease.” Good luck.



If the judge has accepted the plea bargain and entered an order, there's not much that can be done about it.  The judge probably wouldn't read your letter anyway and even if he did, the likelihood that he would set the plea bargain aside is nil.  I'm not sure he even could, if both the defense and the DA have agreed to it and the judge has formally ordered its acceptance.

The best idea (assuming that a final sentencing order hasn't been entered), is to scream bloody murder (via a certified letter) at the DA's office about the injustice of the plea bargain and to request that the judge hear victim impact statements before sentencing.  I'd send a copy to your state's attorney general, as well.


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## terry123 (Dec 31, 2020)

Contact your local television station also.  They all have their investigative reporters that look into cases like yours. It might not change your case but it will shine the light on the ;local D A and others that allowed this to happen!


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## 911 (Dec 31, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> If the judge has accepted the plea bargain and entered an order, there's not much that can be done about it.  The judge probably wouldn't read your letter anyway and even if he did, the likelihood that he would set the plea bargain aside is nil.  I'm not sure he even could, if both the defense and the DA have agreed to it and the judge has formally ordered its acceptance.
> 
> The best idea (assuming that a final sentencing order hasn't been entered), is to scream bloody murder (via a certified letter) at the DA's office about the injustice of the plea bargain and to request that the judge hear victim impact statements before sentencing.  I'd send a copy to your state's attorney general, as well.


Most of the judges that I have dealt with actually do read letters that the Clerk of Courts or an Intern have found to be reasonable. I have been to hearings and sentences where the judge has even read some of the letters that he received. They act as a private impact statement prior to sentencing.


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## Butterfly (Dec 31, 2020)

911 said:


> Most of the judges that I have dealt with actually do read letters that the Clerk of Courts or an Intern have found to be reasonable. I have been to hearings and sentences where the judge has even read some of the letters that he received. They act as a private impact statement prior to sentencing.



Here, a letter to the judge from one side of the case is considered _ex parte_ communication and isn't allowed unless the judge has specifically called for impact statements.   It certainly isn't going to get anyone anywhere after the fact, i.e., after the judge has ruled.


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## 911 (Dec 31, 2020)

Butterfly said:


> Here, a letter to the judge from one side of the case is considered _ex parte_ communication and isn't allowed unless the judge has specifically called for impact statements.   It certainly isn't going to get anyone anywhere after the fact, i.e., after the judge has ruled.


But, doesn't the judge allow impact statements prior to sentencing in major crime cases? Here in PA, juries do not handle or have much say, if any in sentencings. It's mostly up to the judge's discretion, who will *normally* follow the DOJ sentencing guidelines. It's supposed to be fairer doing it this way, but in my opinion, it isn't always that way. 

Judges will normally read a letter as a silent impact statement and do so in his/her chambers, unless he/she uses the letter to justify or defend his reason for the sentence he/she handed down. It doesn't happen often and seldom, if ever have I heard them read in the larger cities, like Philly, Erie or Pittsburgh. 

In Pennsylvania, we still follow Old English Law, but our judges do not wear wigs. I just added that because I had a kid ask me that one time when I visited an elementary school. I had to laugh. Kids were always my best audiences. They can and have come up with some doozies for questions.


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## Kathleen’s Place (Dec 31, 2020)

JuJube, I am so very sorry about your sister 
And I honestly have no words for the rest of it.  This person has to live with what she did. If she has an ounce of humanity in her soul, maybe that is justice.  I don’t know. Nor do I know how I would feel if this happened to someone I love. But I do know how I will feel if I lose my sister under any circumstance...and my heart goes out to you


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## jujube (Mar 11, 2021)

Things came to a head last month when the judge finally refused to allow the defense team any more delays.  He told them that they needed to either accept a plea bargain deal or trial "proceedings" would start in ten days.   Apparently a jury trial would open her to the strong possibility of a much harsher sentence than a plea bargain, they decided to go with the plea.

She was offered 37 months of incarceration, to be served as house arrest until such time as the prisons are accepting inmates again (who knows when that will be).  If the prisons start processing people in, she will have to serve the remainder of her sentence in one.  The "formal" sentencing won't be until October 2021 and then I believe she won't have to start serving for perhaps up to a year.

Of course, it's highly unlikely that she'll serve the 37 months in its entirety.  We'll see.  

In a way, I'm glad we won't have to go to trial.  I'm not sure my brother-in-law could take that.  I would have had to be there with him.  There is a huge problem getting juries right now; they said it could take 3-4 weeks alone to pick a jury; and then who knows how long a trial would take.  

I would have liked to see more punishment for the driver, but no amount of punishment is going to bring my sister back.  We have to move on the best we can. My Christian upbringing tells me to forgive.  I haven't reached that point.  I can't imagine I will.


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## StarSong (Mar 11, 2021)

jujube said:


> Things came to a head last month when the judge finally refused to allow the defense team any more delays.  He told them that they needed to either accept a plea bargain deal or trial "proceedings" would start in ten days.   Apparently a jury trial would open her to the strong possibility of a much harsher sentence than a plea bargain, they decided to go with the plea.
> 
> She was offered 37 months of incarceration, to be served as house arrest until such time as the prisons are accepting inmates again (who knows when that will be).  If the prisons start processing people in, she will have to serve the remainder of her sentence in one.  The "formal" sentencing won't be until October 2021 and then I believe she won't have to start serving for perhaps up to a year.
> 
> ...


I'm so sad for you.  What a terrible situation.


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## Aunt Marg (Mar 11, 2021)

Gaer said:


> You sure?  I think there is a   lot of interest in Justice!


I agree, especially the lack-thereof today.


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