# 10 Dead in Shooting at Oregon College.



## Underock1 (Oct 1, 2015)

Just caught it on TV a second ago. How long are we going to accept this? Terrorism? Who needs Muslim extremists when you live in a country teeming with armed crazies?


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## fureverywhere (Oct 1, 2015)

Sadly one of my bumper stickers " Guns Nuts are Keeping Us from Stopping Nuts with Guns"...you know what somebody will say in all seriousness? That all college campuses need to have armed guards and metal detectors...oh and malls, movie theaters, churches. Then somebody else in all seriousness will say it's because not enough people have guns so they can't defend themselves. The only sane answer is to repeal the second amendment, and you know in our lifetime they'll never do it.


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## RadishRose (Oct 1, 2015)

Horrible. At least this suspect is in custody.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 1, 2015)

of course I feel bad for the dead and their families..   It happens far too often.... I'm hardly bothered any more.... because ya know what?  Once our country decided that 20 dead kindergarteners was acceptable... I knew we lost the fight for gun control anyway...   So shoot away...  I just hope that no one I love is killed.


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## fureverywhere (Oct 1, 2015)

You know it's like my son just said, in other countries, France, the UK, when there is a shooting the whole nation gets into it. Charlie Hebdo and people across the country were going ape crap about this happening on French soil. This is Americka, a shooting or two a week somewhere...maybe it makes news briefly. Then you start to consider how the Yankees are doing...as a nation we've gotten numbed to it. Even if we haven't there's not too much we can do about it as individuals. The NRA has that much clout. It's just beyond reason. A close friend's nephew died at thirty because he went to work the wrong day. Just an accident, the robbers didn't know him. They caught both guys who will be appealing the rest of their lives. But that doesn't bring him back. Other countries are appalled by US gun culture. That means even for those of us would sooner carry a gun than set ourselves on fire...they still see us in some way responsible for the others.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 1, 2015)

I used to care VERY much...  only to be called un-American.. and anti-2nd amendment... and lectured about inalienable rights and how only the criminals will have guns... and   blah blah  blah.... So now I just shake my head and forget about it..  What good will it do me to continue to be upset..   It is what it is..  and I only pray as I said, that my family or any of my dear friends never fall victim.


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## Debby (Oct 1, 2015)

I'm rapidly approaching the same sort of attitude QS.  You can get upset.......and then you hear about another situation....and another and finally one starts to feel like there's no point in getting upset.  So sad that this happened to those families!  Absolutely terrible and I feel so bad for them.  Their hearts must be breaking .


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## applecruncher (Oct 1, 2015)

RadishRose said:


> Horrible. At least this suspect is in custody.



He's dead.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/01/us/oregon-college-shooting/


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## RadishRose (Oct 1, 2015)

applecruncher said:


> He's dead.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/01/us/oregon-college-shooting/



thanks for the update


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 1, 2015)

They just said he made everyone stand up and state what religion they were.  Such a tragedy.


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## fureverywhere (Oct 1, 2015)

Probably shot himself...twenty years old, like that animal that shot up the church. Children with guns and persecution issues. The one  with the church was a LEGALLY owned weapon. That last several shootings have been legally owned guns. 
They've proven that scientifically your brain isn't even fully developed at twenty. 
But you can sign up for the service at 18
Legally buy a gun at between eighteen to twenty
But you can't legally buy an alcoholic beverage until you're twenty one because somebody is trying to protect you
 Enough to make your brain explode.

But no we have to care. That's what the NRA and their supporters want. They want people to just give up and let them take over whichever hare-brained pols they can get to back them. 

Oh and it's up to 13 dead.


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## ~Lenore (Oct 1, 2015)

*I wonder how long it will take for the media to tell us who this 20 year old man is?
 Also what was his motive in asking the students to stand and tell what religion they were?  
I wonder what religion was to be shot and which weren't?  
How long will it take for the media to give us this information?*


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## BobF (Oct 1, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> Probably shot himself...twenty years old, like that animal that shot up the church. Children with guns and persecution issues. The one  with the church was a LEGALLY owned weapon. That last several shootings have been legally owned guns.
> They've proven that scientifically your brain isn't even fully developed at twenty.
> But you can sign up for the service at 18
> Legally buy a gun at between eighteen to twenty
> ...



Where can you not buy an alcoholic beverage in the US?   Most places I have traveled through or lived in allow beer to be sold to 18 year old folks.    Beer is an alcoholic beverage legally or it would not be controlled at all.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 1, 2015)

Bob, as far as I know the legal drinking age in the U.S. is technically still 21, in every state. Don't think they've changed it anywhere ...


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## Jackie22 (Oct 1, 2015)

[h=1]School Shootings Since Sandy Hook[/h]1	1/8/2013	Fort Myers, FL	Apostolic Revival Center Christian School	K-12 
2	1/10/2013	Taft, CA	Taft Union High School	K-12 
3	1/15/2013	St. Louis, MO	Stevens Institute of Business & Arts	College 
4	1/15/2013	Hazard, KY	Hazard Community and Technical College	College 
5	1/16/2013	Chicago, IL	Chicago State University	College 
6	1/22/2013	Houston, TX	Lone Star College North Harris Campus	College 
7	1/31/2013	Atlanta, GA	Price Middle School	K-12 
8	2/1/2013	Atlanta, GA	Morehouse College	College 
9	2/7/2013	Fort Pierce, FL	Indian River St. College	College 
10	2/13/2013	San Leandro, CA	Hillside Elementary School	K-12 
11	2/27/2013	Atlanta, GA	Henry W. Grady HS	K-12 
12	3/18/2013	Orlando, FL	University of Central Florida	College 
13	3/21/2013	Southgate, MI	Davidson Middle School	K-12 
14	4/12/2013	Christiansburg, VA	New River Community College	College 
15	4/13/2013	Elizabeth City, NC	Elizabeth City State University	College 
16	4/15/2013	Grambling, LA	Grambling State University	College 
17	4/29/2013	Cincinnati, OH	La Salle High School	K-12 
18	6/7/2013	Santa Monica,CA	Santa Monica College	College 
19	6/19/2013	W. Palm Beach, FL	Alexander W. Dreyfoos School of the Arts	K-12 
20	8/15/2013	Clarksville, TN	Northwest High School	K-12 
21	8/20/2013	Decatur, GA	Ronald E. McNair Discovery Learning Academy	K-12 
22	8/22/2013	Memphis, TN	Westside Elementary School	K-12 
23	8/23/2013	Sardis, MS	North Panola High School	K-12 
24	8/30/2013	Winston-Salem, NC	Carver High School	K-12 
25	9/21/2013	Savannah, GA	Savannah State University	College 
26	9/28/2013	Gray, ME	New Gloucester High School	K-12 
27	10/4/2013	Pine Hills, FL	Agape Christian Academy	K-12 
28	10/15/2013	Austin, TX	Lanier High School	K-12 
29	10/21/2013	Sparks, NV	Sparks Middle School	K-12 
30	11/1/2013	Algona, IA	Algona High/Middle School	K-12 
31	11/2/2013	Greensboro, NC	North Carolina A&T State University	College 
32	11/3/2013	Stone Mountain, GA	Stephenson High School	K-12 
33	11/21/2013	Rapid City, SD	South Dakota School of Mines & Technology College 
34	12/4/2013	Winter Garden, FL	West Orange High School	K-12 
35	12/13/2013	Arapahoe County, CO	Arapahoe High School	K-12 
36	12/19/2013	Fresno, CA	Edison High School	K-12 
37	1/9/2014	Jackson, TN	Liberty Technology Magnet HS	K-12 
38	1/14/2014	Roswell, NM	Berrendo Middle School	K-12 
39	1/15/2014	Lancaster, PA	Martin Luther King Jr. ES	K-12 
40	1/17/2014	Philadelphia, PA	Delaware Valley Charter HS	K-12 
41	1/20/2014	Chester, PA	Widener University	College 
42	1/21/2014	West Lafayette, IN	Purdue University	College 
43	1/24/2014	Orangeburg, SC	South Carolina State University	College 
44	1/28/2014	Nashville, TN	Tennessee State University	College 
45	1/28/2014	Grambling, LA	Grambling State University	College 
46	1/31/2014	Phoenix, AZ	Cesar Chavez High School	K-12 
47	1/31/2014	Des Moines, IA	North High School	K-12 
48	2/7/2014	Bend, OR	Bend High School	K-12 
49	2/10/2014	Salisbury, NC	Salisbury High School	K-12 
50	2/11/2014	Lyndhurst, OH	Brush High School	K-12 
51	2/12/2014	Jackson, TN	Union University	College 
52	2/20/2014	Raytown, MO	Raytown Success Academy	K-12 
53	3/2/2014	Westminster, MD	McDaniel College	College 
54	3/7/2014	Tallulah, LA	Madison High School	K-12 
55	3/8/2014	Oshkosh, WI	University of Wisconsin – Oshkosh	College 
56	3/21/2014	Newark, DE	University of Delaware	College 
57	3/30/2014	Savannah, GA	Savannah State University	College 
58	4/3/2014	Kent, OH	Kent State University	College 
59	4/11/2014	Detroit, MI	East English Village Preparatory Academy	K-12 
60	4/16/2014	Tuscaloosa, AL	Stillman College	College 
61	4/21/2014	Griffith, IN	St. Mary Catholic School	K-12 
62	4/21/2014	Provo, UT	Provo High School	K-12 
63	4/16/2014	Council Bluffs, IA	Iowa Western Community College	College 
64	5/2/2014	Milwaukee, WI	Marquette University	College 
65	5/3/2014	Everett, WA	Horizon Elementary School	K-12 
66	5/4/2014	Augusta, GA	Paine College	College 
67	5/5/2014	Augusta, GA	Paine College	College 
68	5/8/2014	Georgetown, KY	Georgetown College	College 
69	5/8/2014	Lawrenceville, GA	Georgia Gwinnett College	College 
70	5/21/2014	Milwaukee, WI	Clark Street School	K-12 
71	6/5/2014	Seattle, WA	Seattle Pacific University	College 
72	6/10/2014	Troutdale, OR	Reynolds High School	K-12 
73	6/23/2014	Benton, MO	Kelly High School	K-12 
74	6/27/2014	Miami, FL	University of Miami	College 
75	8/13/2014	Fredrick, MD	Heather Ridge High School	K-12 
76	8/14/2014	Newport News, VA	Saunders Elementary	K-12 
77	9/2/2014	Pocatello, ID	Idaho State University	College 
78	9/5/2014	Savannah, GA	Savannah State University	College 
79	9/10/2014	Lake Mary, FL	Greenwood Lakes Middle School	K-12 
80	9/11/2014	Taylorsville, UT	Westbrook Elementary School	K-12 
81	9/24/2014	San Antonio, TX	Joel C. Harris Academy	K-12 
82	9/27/2014	Nashville, TN	Tennessee State University	College 
83	9/29/2014	Terre Haute, IN	Indiana State University	College 
84	9/30/2014	Albermarle, NC	Albermarle High School	K-12 
85	9/30/2014	Louisville, KY	Fern Creek High School	K-12 
86	10/3/2014	Fairburn, GA	Langston Hughes High School	K-12 
87	10/8/2014	Elizabeth City, NC	Elizabeth City State University	College 
88	10/13/2014	Nashville, TN	Tennessee State University	College 
89	10/18/2014	Langston, OK	Langston University	College 
90	10/21/2014	Memphis, TN	A. Maceo Walker Middle School	K-12 
91	10/24/2014	Marysville, WA	Marysville-Pilchuck High School	K-12 
92	11/3/2014	Dover, DE	Delaware State University	College 
93	11/20/2014	Tallahassee, FL	Florida State University	College 
94	11/23/2014	Annapolis, MD	St. John’s College	College 
95	12/5/2014	Claremore, OK	Rogers State University	College 
96	12/16/2014	Pittsburgh, PA	Sunnyside Elementary School	K-12 
97	12/17/2014	Waterville, ME	Benton Elementary School	K-12 
98	1/15/2015	Milwaukee, WI	Wisconsin Lutheran High School	K-12 
99	1/16/2015	Ocala, FL	Vanguard High School	K-12 
100	1/20/2015	Mobile, AL	Williamson High School	K-12 
101	1/23/2015	Hardeeville, SC	Royal Live Oaks Academy	K-12 
102	1/26/2015	Roseville, MN	Hand in Hand Christian Montessori School	K-12 
103	2/2/2015	Mankato, MN	Minnesota State University	College 
104	2/4/2015	Frederick, MD	Frederick High School	K-12 
105	2/5/2015	Columbia, SC	University of South Carolina	College 
106	2/15/2015	Athens, GA	University of Georgia	College 
107	2/15/2015	Little Rock, AR	Lawson Elementary School	K-12 
108	2/15/2015	Merced, CA	Tenaya Middle School	K-12 
109	2/23/2015	Daytona Beach, FL	Bethune-Cookman University	College 
110	3/9/2015	Coon Rapids, MN	Northwest Passage Alternative High School	K-12 
111	3/30/2015	Springfield, MA	American International College	College 
112	4/2/2015	Beaver Falls, PA	Community College of Beaver County	College 
113	4/2/2015	Jackson, TN	Lane College	College 
114	4/4/2015	Everett, WA	Everett Community College	College 
115	4/13/2015	Goldsboro, NC	Wayne Community College	College 
116	4/17/2015	Seguin, TX	Seguin High School	K-12 
117	4/19/2015	Charlotte, NC	Johnson C. Smith University	College 
118	4/22/2015	Las Vegas, NV	Ruthe Deskin Elementary School	K-12 
119	4/27/2015	Lacey, WA	North Thurston High School	K-12 
120	5/4/2015	Cleveland, OH	Willow Elementary School	K-12 
121	5/5/2015	Conyers, GA	Conyers Middle School	K-12 
122	5/12/2015	Tempe, AZ	Corona del Sol High School	K-12 
123	5/20/2015	Robinson, TX	Robinson High School	K-12 
124	5/24/2015	Flint, MI	Flint Southwestern Classical Academy	K-12 
125	5/27/2015	Everglades City, FL	Everglades City School	K-12 
126	6/4/2015	Franklin, NC	South Macon Elementary School	K-12 
127	6/23/2015	Fort Calhoun, NE	Fort Calhoun Elementary School	K-12 
128	7/5/2015	Dallas, TX	Coppell Middle School East	K-12 
129	7/24/2015	Converse, TX	Elolf Elementary School	K-12 
130	7/27/2015	Gainesville, FL	University of Florida – Gainesville	College 
131	8/8/2015	Wichita, KS	Wichita State University	College 
132	8/8/2015	Paradise, TX	Paradise High School	K-12 
133	8/23/2015	Richmond, TX	William Velasquez Elementary	K-12 
134	8/25/2015	Augusta, GA	Hornsby Elementary School	K-12 
135	8/27/2015	Savannah, GA	Savannah State University	College 
136	9/3/2015	Sacramento, CA	Sacramento City College	College 
137	9/11/2015	Lafayette, LA	Northside High School	K-12 
138	9/14/2015	Cleveland, MS	Delta State University	College 
139	9/22/2015	Statesville, NC	Central Elementary School	K-12 
140	9/28/2015	Butte, MT	Montana Tech of the University of Montana	College 
141	9/30/2015	Harrisburg, SD	Harrisburg High School	K-12 
142	10/1/2015	Roseburg, OR	Umpqua Community College	College 

http://everytown.org/article/schoolshootings/


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## RadishRose (Oct 1, 2015)

Jackie, this list is shocking! I didn't know there were so many!


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## Jackie22 (Oct 1, 2015)

RadishRose said:


> Jackie, this list is shocking! I didn't know there were so many!



Yes, very and sad, sad.....and this is just the school shootings.


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## Warrigal (Oct 1, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> Sadly one of my bumper stickers " Guns Nuts are Keeping Us from Stopping Nuts with Guns"...you know what somebody will say in all seriousness? That all college campuses need to have armed guards and metal detectors...oh and malls, movie theaters, churches. Then somebody else in all seriousness will say it's because not enough people have guns so they can't defend themselves. The only sane answer is to repeal the second amendment, and you know in our lifetime they'll never do it.


IMO the second amendment is a total anachronism that is being used for commercial purposes by vested interests. It is an impediment to the pursuit of1 life, liberty and happiness for a lot of people. It is a form of national insanity to continue to cling to it as if it were holy writ.


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## Jackie22 (Oct 1, 2015)

President Obama on TV now....lowering the boom.


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## BobF (Oct 1, 2015)

Well, here is a chart showing different ways the states handle alcohol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_by_youth_in_the_United_States

Here is a report on Ohio laws and they excuse beer from the alcohol rules.   Beer was in two levels of alcohol when I lived there - 3.2 and 7 by name.   I don't know what that meant but the bottles were labeled such and the labels were red for 3.2 and blue for 7, or maybe it was the reverse in color.   Been a long time now since I have lived there.   Always drank beer till I was 21 and then changed to hard drinks.   I don't drink anything for many years now, likely 30 years now.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4301

In the military they always seemed to have beer in the PX and a place to sit and have a can or two.

If states no longer allow beer to be sold till 21 then there have been a lot of new laws written in recent years.   But from the charts I found and thing that Ohio does not appear to control low level beer, I think drinking at 18 is OK but not for the hard drinks.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 1, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> President Obama on TV now....lowering the boom.



Yes... I am listening to him now... He is angry and frustrated at how often this happens...and how Congress is simply unwilling to do anything about it.  He is completely and totally FED UP....  So are most of us.. Mr. President... but the Gun lobby has a strangle hold.


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## Jackie22 (Oct 1, 2015)

....he is pissed and he should be!

As you said, QS, so are we....parents are afraid to send their kids to school.


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## Warrigal (Oct 1, 2015)

BobF said:


> Well, here is a chart showing different ways the states handle alcohol.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_by_youth_in_the_United_States
> 
> ...



Bob, you are following up a distraction. Alcohol abuse is a different issue entirely. It's main impact is road deaths and domestic violence.
Of course, add firearms to the mix and alcohol plus a gun becomes a very dangerous combination, but that is not really the issue here.


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## Underock1 (Oct 1, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> IMO the second amendment is a total anachronism that is being used for commercial purposes by vested interests. It is an impediment to the pursuit of1 life, liberty and happiness for a lot of people. It is a form of national insanity to continue to cling to it as if it were holy writ.



Key words: National insanity, and its not limited to gun laws.


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## Warrigal (Oct 1, 2015)

The mind boggles at the number of repeats.

President Barack Obama addressed the nation after the shooting, taking time to emphatically call for tougher gun laws. 
*This was the 15th time the president has addressed the nation after a massing shooting, according to CNN.*

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/3016...r-gun-control-in-wake-of-oregon-mass-shooting

Fifteen times! Is this what the next president has to look forward to?
Will any of the candidates have the courage to declare that they will continue to fight for sensible national legislation to reduce this carnage?


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## Butterfly (Oct 1, 2015)

BobF said:


> Where can you not buy an alcoholic beverage in the US?   Most places I have traveled through or lived in allow beer to be sold to 18 year old folks.    Beer is an alcoholic beverage legally or it would not be controlled at all.



Not here, you can't!


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## Shalimar (Oct 1, 2015)

So heartbreaking. National insanity indeed. Millions of decent people held hostage by a rabid few. History has not been kind to similar situations. Unchecked, violence/extremism/denial always escalate. Civilisation devolves into a feral society.


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## Davey Jones (Oct 1, 2015)

So what are we as a nation going to do about???
I got the answer.....absolutely NOTHING....while we all sit and wait till the next massacre.
I saw the President speaking today and when he stopped reading the prepared scrip and spoke from the heart, I saw a REAL leader for a change and I don't even like him.
Thanks Mr. President.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 1, 2015)

Unfortunately this country and it's laws are controlled by the people with the biggest check books.. and can write the biggest checks.  Our congress depends on them for their re-elections...  The NRA is one of the biggest.   Unfortunately the nefarious Citizens United ruling by the conservative Supreme Court has allowed this to spiral out of control, allowing unlimited contributions by large donors.   Until we can overturn this ruling and get the money out of politics.. thousands more will die and nothing will change..  We will see this happening over and over... There is nothing we can do about it.


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## BobF (Oct 1, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> Bob, you are following up a distraction. Alcohol abuse is a different issue entirely. It's main impact is road deaths and domestic violence.
> Of course, add firearms to the mix and alcohol plus a gun becomes a very dangerous combination, but that is not really the issue here.



The distraction is my mind as this person said nowhere in the US sells alcohol to under 21.   I still don't believe that as beer is sold to under 18 in Ohio and their alcohol laws exclude beer.   I was just remembering for that person the many places I did buy beer while under 21.   To me, beer is an alcohol drink whether excluded from controls or not.   Drinking after 21 is still a big issue.

Now how is it handled in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and England also.   I have seen photo's showing families with younger children have a beer.   No problem over there?


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## Warrigal (Oct 1, 2015)

Nevertheless, you are chasing down a red herring. 
I refuse to follow because the topic of the OP is too serious to go off topic.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 1, 2015)

BobF said:


> The distraction is my mind as this person said nowhere in the US sells alcohol to under 21.   I still don't believe that as beer is sold to under 18 in Ohio and their alcohol laws exclude beer.   I was just remembering for that person the many places I did buy beer while under 21.   To me, beer is an alcohol drink whether excluded from controls or not.   Drinking after 21 is still a big issue.
> 
> Now how is it handled in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and England also.   I have seen photo's showing families with younger children have a beer.   No problem over there?



Bob... alcohol was mentioned in passing.... This thread is about guns... stop with the alcohol already... no one is interested... why not start your own thread about the drinking age.


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## ~Lenore (Oct 1, 2015)

*About guns?  I thought it was a news thread about a shooting in Oregon where a 26 year old black man named Chris Harper Mercer went on a killing spree.  *


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## Shalimar (Oct 1, 2015)

The perpetrator went on a mass shooting spree--with guns. I don't think his colour is relevant, but no doubt the race pimps will point their finger anyway. Anything to obviate the obvious problem here.


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## Warrigal (Oct 1, 2015)

I'm interested to know the reason behind the religion question that was apparently asked before deciding whether a victim could live or die.
Apart from the general question of firearms access it is also important to analyse the mindset of the shooter.


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## fureverywhere (Oct 1, 2015)

So what are we as a nation going to do about???
 I got the answer.....absolutely NOTHING....while we all sit and wait till the next massacre.
 I saw the President speaking today and when he stopped reading the prepared scrip and spoke from the heart, I saw a REAL leader for a change and I don't even like him.
 Thanks Mr. President. 

Very well said Davey...you summed up the whole thread perfectly

To some of the rest of you I was being sarcastic when I mentioned the drinking age. Heaven forbid we let children under 21 get drunk...but they can die for their country or buy a firearm and go on a shooting spree at 18...insanity


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## ~Lenore (Oct 1, 2015)

*No more so than when that white kid killed the black members of that church.  Why can't the truth be told no matter what color or ethnic group or religion?

[url]https://www.seniorforums.com/showthread.php/15230-Is-This-the-Face-of-Hate?highlight=Church+shooting


[/URL]
*Is this the face of hate?


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## fureverywhere (Oct 1, 2015)

A question, one report said ten victims and another thirteen. Do they know for sure yet?


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## Warrigal (Oct 1, 2015)

We have heard on our news (ABC) that the figure of 13 has been revised down to 10.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 1, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> So heartbreaking. National insanity indeed. Millions of decent people held hostage by a rabid few. History has not been kind to similar situations. Unchecked, violence/extremism/denial always escalate. Civilisation devolves into a feral society.



I'm not one of those held hostage, because I carry whenever I go out and I'll be damned if I don't use it in such scenarios.

I'm not food - I'm prey. If that makes me feral, good.

Maybe if a few more people would "man up" instead of crying about it there would be fewer occurrences.


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## Shalimar (Oct 1, 2015)

Wow. Phil, just wow.


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## Warrigal (Oct 1, 2015)

Phil, I pray you don't become prey.

I see myself as neither predator nor prey, and I hope never to become either one.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Wow. Phil, just wow.



It's one thing to kid around on forums - another to survive the jungle out there.



Warrigal said:


> Phil, I pray you don't become prey.



As do I, and the day will eventually come. 



> I see myself as neither predator nor prey, and I hope never to become either one.



Interesting POV.


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## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

I have worn both hats--unwillingly. Neither were a natural fit, although being feral is. I know I am willing to die rather than relinquish my humanity. I have paid far too high a price for it.


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## chic (Oct 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I'm not one of those held hostage, because I carry whenever I go out and I'll be damned if I don't use it in such scenarios.
> 
> I'm not food - I'm prey. If that makes me feral, good.
> 
> Maybe if a few more people would "man up" instead of crying about it there would be fewer occurrences.



I don't carry guns whenever I go out, but I agree with your basic message Phil. When will people start taking responsibility for themselves. Being a victim isn't for me either. You have courage to make an interesting point, albeit an unpopular one.


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## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

Sometimes being a victim is not a choice.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> I have worn both hats--unwillingly. Neither were a natural fit, although being feral is. I know I am willing to die rather than relinquish my humanity. I have paid far too high a price for it.



I subscribe to - and have seen in my life work - the Sheep, Shepard and Wolf theory. Most people are Sheep and they will never be anything else.

Then there are the Wolves - the relentless, inhuman killers.

The Shepards are those who stand between the two, either voluntarily or by personality / upbringing / etc.

Once in a very long while one type of person can become another, either by training or by life event. 

You say you would rather die than relinquish your humanity. Would you? _Really_? Think about it ... life is the greatest gift we have ...



Shalimar said:


> Sometimes being a victim is not a choice.



Ehhhhhh ... for the most part, in this life anyway, I think it is. It's a decision we all make. It's an attitude; we wear it like a coat wherever we go. It's in our posture and our voice. It's in our way of thinking. Those who have made the choice include soldiers, police, firemen ... the people we usually refer to as "heroes". 

Because what is a hero except someone who refuses to become a victim? Who fights through impossible odds, no matter what the outcome?


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

So you are saying that those Oregon college students made the decision to go to that college and attend that class on that day made a choice to become a gun violence victims?   Or are you saying that because they didn't have guns and didn't shoot back that it was their choice to die?


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> So you are saying that those Oregon college students made the decision to go to that college and attend that class on that day made a choice to become a gun violence victims?   Or are you saying that because they didn't have guns and didn't shoot back that it was their choice to die?



Both.

They made a choice to become victims by making the choice not to carry.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Both.
> 
> They made a choice to become victims by making the choice not to carry.




So, in your opinion, everyone should be carrying a gun.... and if you don't... and you are killed by a maniac carrying one... It's your own fault.   amazing..


----------



## mitchezz (Oct 2, 2015)

Speechless.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> Speechless.



Yeah... this is the sort of distorted thinking that the NRA has managed to brainwash people with...  It of course is utter nonsense, but it keeps the Gun lobby happy, and the gun manufacturers rich.


----------



## Jackie22 (Oct 2, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yeah... this is the sort of distorted thinking that the NRA has managed to brainwash people with...  It of course is utter nonsense, but it keeps the Gun lobby happy, and the gun manufacturers rich.



......and the innocent dead.


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

Baaaaahhhhhhhh ...

Go ahead ... march right into your oblivion while you mutter your phrases about how the world _should_ be ... instead of doing something about it.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Baaaaahhhhhhhh ...
> 
> Go ahead ... march right into your oblivion while you mutter your phrases about how the world _should_ be ... instead of doing something about it.



If by doing something about it means everyone carrying and turning this country into one massive shoot out at the OK corral... with innocent people dying both at the hands of the bad guys OR at the hands of the good guys who are poor shots or misread a situation..  I see little hope for this country.   It is already an embarrassment in the eyes of the rest of the world for cripes sake..


----------



## BobF (Oct 2, 2015)

Until we have the reasons behind this persons activity, we have nothing to go on at all.   It is not the gun's fault as they are inert and do nothing till a person activates it.    A neighbor described this person to be a very angry person.   Could that be all the problem?    We find out when all the investigation is complete, not before.

For the idea that a few are keeping the many from getting guns our out of the US is totally wrong to begin with.

In the US it takes 2/3 of each house in Congress to get such a move active.   Then once considered to be a justification it takes a procedure to 2/3 of all the states to agree also.   It is not a procedure designed for speed but for one where the masses do agree that our Constitution should be changed properly and not just for some few that want things to be their way.

It can happen and will if in time the masses agree with the few that do wish it to happen.   Our Constitution is more important that these sudden gun episodes.   Why did they not happen in our past history.   

These current events are happening more frequently than before and not just because of the presence of guns.   There is something else going wrong with the US ways of raising our young folks.   That needs to be discovered and corrected.   Not teaching enough of self respect or concern for others?    I don't know but do feel certain that it is something other than guns.

Look to Switzerland as a place where guns is part of their lives.   It is also part of their social system as they do have big shooting days and guns are plenty in sight.   I think one thing they do is control the ammunition but they allow all, military reserves and private citizens no longer in reserves to have guns.    It is something not apparent in the US and something we once had but have lost.


----------



## mitchezz (Oct 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Both.
> 
> They made a choice to become victims by making the choice not to carry.



Luckily I've recovered the power of speech.

So Phil, by your logic the kiddies at Sandy Hook should have been toting semi automatics?


----------



## Ameriscot (Oct 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Both.
> 
> They made a choice to become victims by making the choice not to carry.



:crying:


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

Philly, I am very fond of you, but please do not patronise me. I have stared death in the face multiple times, so I know of what I speak. For me gentleness is a choice, not a weakness. As for doing something about it, I have spent decades working in the trenches, have stood as shepherd between my beloved vets in the throes of flashbacks and possible victims multiple times.That was my choice. Once i was injured, although the poor man could have killed me if he wished. I would do it again. BUT I WILL NOT CARRY A GUN!!!


----------



## rt3 (Oct 2, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> Luckily I've recovered the power of speech.
> 
> So Phil, by your logic the kiddies at Sandy Hook should have been toting semi automatics?



Sorry straw man arguement won't wash

NRA has 5 million members and at least 5 million supporters more than the population of the smaller UK  members and half the population of Australia or Canada. These countries are an embarrassment to 2nd Amend. Supporters in the US. But of course we are the majority and suppressing Quicksilver.
HIPPA files will not be opened, different set of laws. 2nd will not be repealed. Why don't you blame the 1st. Which allowed the free speech and web sites this wacko got his brain washing?


----------



## Ameriscot (Oct 2, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> Luckily I've recovered the power of speech.
> 
> So Phil, by your logic the kiddies at Sandy Hook should have been toting semi automatics?



Phil will likely say all the teachers should have been armed with automatic weapons.  Right Phil?


----------



## rt3 (Oct 2, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Philly, I am very fond of you, but please do not patronise me. I have stared death in the face multiple times, so I know of what I speak. For me gentleness is a choice, not a weakness. As for doing something about it, I have spent decades working in the trenches, have stood as shepherd between my beloved vets in the throes of flashbacks and possible victims multiple times.That was my choice. Once i was injured, although the poor man could have killed me if he wished. I would do it again. BUT I WILL NOT CARRY A GUN!!!



that is a decision you did/have/are making.  I too have worked with battered children, druggies for a life time, but the only thing it has to do with this topic is the fact some of those folks can tip over at any time and kill with or without a gun.


----------



## rt3 (Oct 2, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Phil will likely say all the teachers should have been armed with automatic weapons.  Right Phil?



Sorry straw man arguement.

could be just as logical to say each child needs own bodyguard, in either case it assumes that assessment of situation is in some way superior.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

rt3, under the right circumstances most individuals can tip over and become homicidal. Usually they do not go on a rampage and shoot multiple innocent people. Also, my earlier comments are germaine to this topic because they speak to what constitutes victimology and personal  morality issues around carrying.


----------



## Ameriscot (Oct 2, 2015)

The media always turns these murderers into celebrities which could appeal to someone who is already about to go over the edge.  The idea of everyone knowing their name and talking about them endlessly on the news, in forums, etc really appeals to some sickos even if they know they'll likely be dead and not around to enjoy it.


----------



## mitchezz (Oct 2, 2015)

rt3 said:


> Sorry straw man arguement won't wash
> 
> NRA has 5 million members and at least 5 million supporters more than the population of the smaller UK  members and half the population of Australia or Canada. These countries are an embarrassment to 2nd Amend. Supporters in the US. But of course we are the majority and suppressing Quicksilver.
> HIPPA files will not be opened, different set of laws. 2nd will not be repealed. Why don't you blame the 1st. Which allowed the free speech and web sites this wacko got his brain washing?



Don't really understand your point. Regardless of NRA member numbers, population of other countries etc children and teens are being massacred at schools and colleges in the USA. No justification about free speech, websites for this to continue. The indisputable fact is that whackos can obtain firearms under present laws.


----------



## mitchezz (Oct 2, 2015)

rt3 said:


> Sorry straw man arguement.
> 
> could be just as logical to say each child needs own bodyguard, in either case it assumes that assessment of situation is in some way superior.



So, what you are saying is that the individual's right to carry a firearm is greater than a child's right to be safe at school? Also, to accommodate that right children may need to be protected by a gun toting security service? You've been watching too many Clint Eastwood movies.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

Wow rt, really? You are calling Canada, and Australia an embarrassment? Hmm, that certainly is pointed.  Goes beyond healthy criticism into the morass of prejudice. It is one thing to address behaviour, quite another to slam whole nations. Offensive, to say the least.


----------



## BobF (Oct 2, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> Don't really understand your point. Regardless of NRA member numbers, population of other countries etc children and teens are being massacred at schools and colleges in the USA. No justification about free speech, websites for this to continue. The indisputable fact is that whackos can obtain firearms under present laws.



So your issue then is not the ill gotten guns but the screwed up rules that don't allow the gun sellers and controllers to have the important information needed to fill your concerns of preventing the possible gun users from doing so.


----------



## Ameriscot (Oct 2, 2015)

rt3 said:


> Sorry straw man arguement.
> 
> could be just as logical to say each child needs own bodyguard, in either case it assumes that assessment of situation is in some way superior.



I never said it was logical, I said Phil would use that argument!


----------



## WhatInThe (Oct 2, 2015)

Apparently this killer was sent to a school for kids with disabilities and emotional issues in California. His father was British which might explain the IRA thing and/or daddy issues. Was of mixed race and followed the Virginia reporter killer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-community-college-kills-people-campus.html

Exactly what was his disability or emotional issue?


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

rt3 said:


> Sorry straw man arguement won't wash
> 
> NRA has 5 million members and at least 5 million supporters more than the population of the smaller UK  members and half the population of Australia or Canada. These countries are an embarrassment to 2nd Amend. Supporters in the US. But of course we are the majority and suppressing Quicksilver.
> HIPPA files will not be opened, different set of laws. 2nd will not be repealed. Why don't you blame the 1st. Which allowed the free speech and web sites this wacko got his brain washing?



Sorry Rt... you are a bit confused...  the VAST majority of NRA members support stronger background checks.   It's the NRA itself.. who takes money from the Gun industry that does not..  but the rank and file certainly want some form of sensible gun control.  I'm not being suppressed... YOU are being fooled. 

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/ny-poll-big-backing-for-assault-ban-086333

An overwhelming majority of people living in a household with a National Rifle Association member support universal background checks for anyone who wants to purchase a gun, one of several proposals President Barack Obama has put forth in the wake of the shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn, a new poll shows. 
 Among those living in a household with an NRA member, 85 percent support universal background checks, according to a CBS/New York Times poll out Thursday, which was conducted before Obama announced his proposals.


Overall, 92 percent of Americans back universal background checks, 7 percent oppose and the remaining 1 percent are undecided, according to the poll, which has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. Among Republicans, 89 percent support background checks and 93 percent of Democrats favor the checks.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/ny-poll-big-backing-for-assault-ban-08633
 3#ixzz3nQe02hSL


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/ny-poll-big-backing-for-assault-ban-086333#ixzz3nQdo1X00


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> So, what you are saying is that the individual's right to carry a firearm is greater than a child's right to be safe at school? Also, to accommodate that right children may need to be protected by a gun toting security service? You've been watching too many Clint Eastwood movies.



No he's not saying that... what he is saying is that the way to stop  the massacre is for every man woman and child to carry a gun...  that would make the Gun and ammo manufacturers very happy.. and continue to support the NRA to do their bidding.


----------



## mitchezz (Oct 2, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> No he's not saying that... what he is saying is that the way to stop  the massacre is for every man woman and child to carry a gun...  that would make the Gun and ammo manufacturers very happy.. and continue to support the NRA to do their bidding.



I'm so glad that my greatest fear is that the neighbours will start up their mowers too early on the weekends. I'd be too scared to leave the house if I lived in America.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> I'm so glad that my greatest fear is that the neighbours will start up their mowers too early on the weekends. I'd be too scared to leave the house if I lived in America.



Why?    If you lived here and your neighbors started up their mowers way to early...... you could blow their brains out...  Wouldn't that be nice?


----------



## mitchezz (Oct 2, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Why?    If you lived here and your neighbors started up their mowers way to early...... you could blow their brains out...  Wouldn't that be nice?



Yeah, maybe............I could even mount a canon on the front verandah and take pot shots at suspicious characters I guess!


----------



## mitchezz (Oct 2, 2015)

I just realised I don't even know where to buy a gun. Maybe they have gun shops in places like Sydney.........I've never seen one in my life.


----------



## Ameriscot (Oct 2, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Apparently this killer was sent to a school for kids with disabilities and emotional issues in California. His father was British which might explain the IRA thing and/or daddy issues. Was of mixed race and followed the Virginia reporter killer.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-community-college-kills-people-campus.html
> 
> Exactly what was his disability or emotional issue?



Is there a reputable paper you can quote?  Don't know why everyone insists on quoting a rag like the Daily Mail.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

Hmm. I'd opt for the emerald green Gatling gun to compliment my auburn hair and dark eyes.......


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Hmm. I'd opt for the emerald green Gatling gun to compliment my auburn hair and dark eyes.......



Personally... I'd like a bazooka...  or a 50mm.


----------



## mitchezz (Oct 2, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Hmm. I'd opt for the emerald green Gatling gun to compliment my auburn hair and dark eyes.......



Think I'd go for the Barbie rifle.......could start my second childhood.

OK, it's 3 am here and this old duck is off to catch up on some beauty sleep. Nighty night.


----------



## WhatInThe (Oct 2, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Is there a reputable paper you can quote?  Don't know why everyone insists on quoting a rag like the Daily Mail.



Say what you want about that 'rag' but like TMZ in the states they are frequently first and get more information than many so called mainstream news sources. I used to ignore them but there is too much information there to be ignored on many stories and issues. 

But if you want a Los Angeles source.

http://www.dailynews.com/general-ne...ved-in-torrance-graduated-from-switzer-center

And just as suspected the school also handles juvenile delinquents which actually coincides with this killer's anger.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

Guys, how about a Barbie bazooka? Does it come with fashion accessories?


----------



## Ameriscot (Oct 2, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Say what you want about that 'rag' but like TMZ in the states they are frequently first and get more information than many so called mainstream news sources. I used to ignore them but there is too much information there to be ignored on many stories and issues.
> 
> But if you want a Los Angeles source.
> 
> ...



Of course they are first.  They invent half the story.


----------



## WhatInThe (Oct 2, 2015)

Killer had been discharged by US Army after one month of basic training. Administrative reasons which could anything from failing a test or couldn't meet physical requirements.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/oregon-gunman-had-been-discharged-after-a-month-in-army-records/


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

In my life I have been shot, stabbed, hit with bottles, bats, bricks, barstools, had home invasions, muggings, riots. I have "kept the peace" in businesses that most people would quickly shuffle past, averting their eyes -the kinds of places where you had to sweep the floors nightly because of all the blood.

I choose NOT to be a victim.

The rest of the discussion here has, as usual, been blown far out of proportion by those who don't mind being victims. They will be the ones who stand by idly, cowering, while evil is done, hoping against hope that some Heavenly Miracle saves them.

I've been trained, and am of the temperament and psychological make up, to DO something. Whether that something includes "talking down" a bad guy or, all the way to the other end of the force spectrum, shooting him, I have and will take whatever measures necessary to stop them.

I've always known that it's a lonely life being a shepherd. People misunderstand and despise them, until they need them. This thread has renewed that knowledge for me. 

Thanks.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

You are a frightening little man.... But I suspect that was the reaction you were going for... feel better now?


----------



## RadishRose (Oct 2, 2015)

I don't see how sarcasm can add anything of value to this conversation.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

RadishRose said:


> I don't see how sarcasm can add anything of value to this conversation.




Not being sarcastic..


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

Actually, I have to thank you QS for making me laugh - honestly. It gave me a good hearty belly-laugh.

If I were tasked to self-analyze, I would agree with you - I AM a frightening little man. I'm one of those people, like the college shooter, who can go from 0-60 in 3 seconds; I can play the fool in a group of friends, wearing a lampshade on my head and making balloon animals. The next second, when something goes wrong, I can be putting people in joint locks, scientifically, the way I've been trained, to cause just the right amount of pain to ensure compliance. I know moves to immobilize someone until the police come; I also know dozens of ways to kill someone, quickly and efficiently.

Is that scary? For someone who is not used to experiencing physical conflicts, of course. Is that psychotic? Doesn't that depend upon the _reasons_ I have for doing it?

I'm going crazy for _good _reasons. I'm only protecting myself and others. Perhaps I scare you for the same reason a guard dog might scare you: he wags his tail and licks your hand one moment and is attacking someone that gets too close the next.

Yet - many people feel better knowing that guard dog is there, on duty, ready to protect you with everything he's got.

Yes, people fear him for his dual nature ... but they're glad he's there. It's human nature to respond to a physical attack with fear and revulsion. I'm just the guard dog that has been trained to react a different way, to get rid of those instinctive responses and react in a focused, purposeful way.

I've had people that threw beer - and beer bottles - at me for helping people. I've been jumped by people. I've also had a lady who _gave me her Cadillac_ for helping her out. 




You just never know.


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

Philly, I have been thinking. In the interest of honesty and FairPlay, I have to say my pacifism has a breaking point also. If someone I love is in danger, or a rabid jerk is beating up a pregnant woman in my parking lot (which happened,) I will react with physical violence if no other recourse seems viable. I am a small person, no longer young, but under those circumstance  
my pain centres shut down, enabling me to do stuff I would otherwise be incapable of. Funny how the body remembers training from decades earlier when the triggers are tripped. Such is the power of protective instincts. Am I conflicted about who I become under such circumstances? You bet, it can be dark. Would I do it again to help someone? You bet.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Actually, I have to thank you QS for making me laugh - honestly. It gave me a good hearty belly-laugh.
> 
> If I were tasked to self-analyze, I would agree with you - I AM a frightening little man. I'm one of those people, like the college shooter, who can go from 0-60 in 3 seconds; I can play the fool in a group of friends, wearing a lampshade on my head and making balloon animals. The next second, when something goes wrong, I can be putting people in joint locks, scientifically, the way I've been trained, to cause just the right amount of pain to ensure compliance. I know moves to immobilize someone until the police come; I also know dozens of ways to kill someone, quickly and efficiently.
> 
> ...



Sad...  hopefully we won't be reading about you in the news someday...   Is this something to be proud of?


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Sad...  hopefully we won't be reading about you in the news someday...   Is this something to be proud of?



Wow - really?

I am _immensely_ proud of what I've done with my life and how I've lived it. Not to get all Superman but I don't see what is wrong with defending the helpless and taking a certain pride in it.

Do you _really_ think that's the wrong way to live one's life?


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Philly, I have been thinking. In the interest of honesty and FairPlay, I have to say my pacifism has a breaking point also. If someone I love is in danger, or a rabid jerk is beating up a pregnant woman in my parking lot (which happened,) I will react with physical violence if no other recourse seems viable. I am a small person, no longer young, but under those circumstance
> my pain centres shut down, enabling me to do stuff I would otherwise be incapable of. Funny how the body remembers training from decades earlier when the triggers are tripped. Such is the power of protective instincts. Am I conflicted about who I become under such circumstances? You bet, it can be dark. Would I do it again to help someone? You bet.



See? There you are. 

I too have recently been introduced to the terrors of getting older. I can't move the way I used to, and I'm certainly not claiming that I could do the same kind of work I used to.

But those instincts, whether natural or modified, remain.

I could see myself limping on my bad leg after a bad guy now, only to gnaw on his arm with my mostly-toothless mouth. Then fall on him repeatedly until he gives up.

But I would still be in there, _trying_. I could do no less.

Thanks.


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

Oh, and I forgot to add ...

Yes, it can be_ very _dark. It isn't a place that most people want to visit. But some of us have learned how to skip back and forth over that line without losing our way; without giving in and falling hopelessly, eternally into that dark side. We go in, do what we have to do and come out again.

You well know the nightmares that many have from the journey - those who lose their way. I'm one of the lucky ones.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> See? There you are.
> 
> I too have recently been introduced to the terrors of getting older. I can't move the way I used to, and I'm certainly not claiming that I could do the same kind of work I used to.
> 
> ...




You just make yourself sound so creepy in your description of your prowess...   You aren't different from anyone else..  If someone I loved was in danger I would go all ape $hit too and hurt somebody... and I'm not small and I'm not impaired in anyway.. and trust me.. experience has proven me to have a very wicked right hook...   but it's not something I go on a message board and brag about...


----------



## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

Hmmm. With respect, I would be more worried if I didn't lose sleep over such actions. I have not lost my way, but retained my humanity. That is how it works for me.


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> You just make yourself sound so creepy in your description of your prowess...   You aren't different from anyone else..  If someone I loved was in danger I would go all ape $hit too and hurt somebody... and I'm not small and I'm not impaired in anyway.. and trust me.. experience has proven me to have a very wicked right hook...   but it's not something I go on a message board and brag about...



I'm trying to explain my mindset re: the shootings in Oregon. Evidently I've failed miserably.

I am VERY different from others. I am trained to face the Monster and not wet my pants. Then I can sit down to dinner afterwards without vomiting.

I doubt you could do the same.

Could you do it for someone you DIDN'T love? Someone you didn't even _know_? In less than 3 seconds could you make that decision to willingly put your life on the line for a total stranger?

Again, I doubt it. 

Can you analyze a situation, a fearful one, without letting emotions in? Will you be sure of what you should do? Are you even sure you're reading the situation correctly, and even then will your body react without that brain getting in the way? All in the space of a blink of the eye? Can you read your opponent like Sherlock Holmes, instantly taking note of their strengths and weaknesses and using that knowledge to make sure you not only neutralize the threat but come away from it without having to take a ride to the hospital? 

Please don't tell me I'm not different. Over 45 years of training and experience assures me otherwise. 

It isn't bragging when you possess the abilities you claim. It's telling the truth. It might seem alien to some, but welcome to my life.


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Hmmm. With respect, I would be more worried if I didn't lose sleep over such actions. I have not lost my way, but retained my humanity. That is how it works for me.



Did you ever see the movie "American Sniper"?

That entire movie examines the "Sheep, Sheepdog and Wolf" meme. You have a sheepdog who starts to go into the Dark Side, then recovers, comes home and is killed by a fellow sheepdog who became a wolf.

Yes, there are prices to be paid, injuries incurred and loses to be experienced. Part of the fight is against not only the enemy without, but the one within.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I'm trying to explain my mindset re: the shootings in Oregon. Evidently I've failed miserably.
> 
> I am VERY different from others. I am trained to face the Monster and not wet my pants. Then I can sit down to dinner afterwards without vomiting.
> 
> ...



Oh puleeze.... You aren't so special..   I have seen a man's chest cracked open an poured antibiotics in as a surgeon massaged his heart and then I went to lunch...  Didn't wet my pants either..   There are all sorts of strengths phil...  I don't have to brag about mine.


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Oh puleeze.... You aren't so special..   I have seen a man's chest cracked open an poured antibiotics in as a surgeon massaged his heart and then I went to lunch...  Didn't wet my pants either..   There are all sorts of strengths phil...  I don't have to brag about mine.



_Seeing_ something and _doing_ something are two very different things. You didn't have to interact physically - just be a spectator.

Once again, I'm not bragging - I'm telling it like it is. If you can't accept that it isn't my fault.


----------



## QuickSilver (Oct 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> _Seeing_ something and _doing_ something are two very different things. You didn't have to interact physically - just be a spectator.
> 
> Once again, I'm not bragging - I'm telling it like it is. If you can't accept that it isn't my fault.



Ok... whatever floats your ego...  But you don't think a nurse facing emergency situations doesn't have to "DO" anything and is only a spectator?  You better rethink that dear....    Difference between you and me?   I don't brag about it..


----------



## SifuPhil (Oct 2, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Ok... whatever floats your ego...  But you don't think a nurse facing emergency situations doesn't have to "DO" anything and is only a spectator?  You better rethink that dear....    Difference between you and me?   I don't brag about it..



My apologies - I misunderstood your involvement in that scenario.

Still ... I don't understand why you've chosen to make this a personal attack on me, or at the very least a mislead attempt at psychoanalyzing me. 

On a personal note: once again, I'm not bragging.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 2, 2015)

my place was acoss the street from ucc. I went to school from 2011 - 2013. it's an odd feeling I'm still trying to find out names from my highschool buds that still live there.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 2, 2015)

https://m.facebook.com/home.php#!/K...27744752:eligibleForSeeFirstBumping.&__tn__=E


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## Denise1952 (Oct 2, 2015)

sorry tried to paste the names, all under 30 except the one teacher


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## mitchezz (Oct 2, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Guys, how about a Barbie bazooka? Does it come with fashion accessories?



Mention Barbie's Camper and I'm outta here.........still traumatised by putting one together one Christmas Eve......the stickers, all those stickers......


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## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

It's ok Mitchezz, have a big drink, heck, have two!


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## Denise1952 (Oct 2, 2015)

how do you get funny from this slaughter? it's enough I was unfortunate enough to see qs still getting away with hers assaults on anyone who dares to disagee with her.


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## mitchezz (Oct 2, 2015)

nwlady said:


> how do you get funny from this slaughter? it's enough I was unfortunate enough to see qs still getting away with hers assaults on anyone who dares to disagee with her.



The whole situation is a joke....a very sick joke. If all Americans were genuinely distressed about their fellow citizens being mown down every time someone had a bad day they would do something about it.


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## Shalimar (Oct 2, 2015)

Denise, I can't speak for anyone else, but black humour, aka satire  or theatre of the absurd, is a coping mechanism I use for coping with horrific tragedies such as this one. I have seen so much dark stuff, if I don't use first responder wisecracks I will lose it. Also, shock tactics can bring the bizarre repetitive nature of this to people's attention. As a Canadian, this culture of mass murder is beyond my comprehension therapissed or not. My heart breaks for these children and all others affected by this serial insanity.


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## Denise1952 (Oct 2, 2015)

Mitch u r right on


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## SifuPhil (Oct 3, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Denise, I can't speak for anyone else, but black humour, aka satire  or theatre of the absurd, is a coping mechanism I use for coping with horrific tragedies such as this one. I have seen so much dark stuff, if I don't use first responder wisecracks I will lose it. Also, shock tactics can bring the bizarre repetitive nature of this to people's attention. As a Canadian, this culture of mass murder is beyond my comprehension therapissed or not. My heart breaks for these children and all others affected by this serial insanity.



The same here, my own black humor going back to grade school - most of the kids there would trade sick jokes. In high school it was dead baby jokes - horrible, yes, when looked at the "normal" way, but to teenagers not knowing any better? Hilarious. 

As Shallie said, it's a coping mechanism. In my own case, humor in general is how I handle stress and evil. It somehow softens it in my mind. Others may be shocked at it, like someone laughing at a funeral, but it does blow off steam.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 3, 2015)

Black humor is a COPING strategy used very often in the Medical field..  IF you didn't laugh or joke about it... you would go insane..


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## QuickSilver (Oct 3, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> My apologies - I misunderstood your involvement in that scenario.
> 
> Still ... I don't understand why you've chosen to make this a personal attack on me, or at the very least a mislead attempt at psychoanalyzing me.
> 
> On a personal note: once again, I'm not bragging.



Not trying to do anything....  Just making convo....  You are very sensitive for a tough Guy...  lol!!!

Guess your claims that the victims of this senseless violence CHOSE to have it happen kind of hit me the wrong way.... It's pure and utter nonsense.  It's even worse than blaming a woman for being raped...


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## SifuPhil (Oct 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Not trying to do anything....  Just making convo....  You are very sensitive for a tough Guy...  lol!!!



That's why I wear Batman underwear under my pink bunny jammies!



> Guess your claims that the victims of this senseless violence CHOSE to have it happen kind of hit me the wrong way.... It's pure and utter nonsense.  It's even worse than blaming a woman for being raped...



I guess maybe I'm looking at this from a more Eastern perspective - that might be what hit you wrong. Cosmic thinking, sort of - we are what, how and where we choose to be.









Still, had they been carrying ...


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## Underock1 (Oct 3, 2015)

One of the things I really like about this crowd, is how we can beat the living daylights out of each other in one post, and joke around together in the next. I guess long lives have taught us _something_!


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## Denise1952 (Oct 3, 2015)

rudeness and personal attacks don't fly with me.  I do love the "Adults" who debate respectfully without
and they are also more forgiving then I.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 3, 2015)

nwlady said:


> rudeness and personal attacks don't fly with me.  I do love the "Adults" who debate respectfully without
> and they are also more forgiving then I.




Oh stop the dramatics.... Phil and I are not fighting... we are friends and can have a tiff.... All is fine... so relax.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 3, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> One of the things I really like about this crowd, is how we can beat the living daylights out of each other in one post, and joke around together in the next. I guess long lives have taught us _something_!



Exactly...


Smoochies Phil...  eace:


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## SifuPhil (Oct 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Oh stop the dramatics.... Phil and I are not fighting... we are friends and can have a tiff.... All is fine... so relax.



A tiff? A *TIFF*!?!

I thought we were having a SPAT!!! :upset:

(Puts on his Batman Halloween costume, teary eyed, and runs out to save the world)


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## QuickSilver (Oct 3, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> A tiff? A *TIFF*!?!
> 
> I thought we were having a SPAT!!! :upset:
> 
> (Puts on his Batman Halloween costume, teary eyed, and runs out to save the world)



I like you a lot phil...  just don't say dumb stuff...   nthego:


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## SifuPhil (Oct 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I like you a lot phil...  just don't say dumb stuff...   nthego:



I've never said a dumb thing in my life.

One is taught in accordance to one's capacity to learn. 

I guess your teaching is done.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 3, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I've never said a dumb thing in my life.
> 
> One is taught in accordance to one's capacity to learn.
> 
> I guess your teaching is done.



I try never to have a battle of wits with anyone that is so obviously unarmed.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I try never to have a battle of wits with anyone that is so obviously unarmed.



Never start a fight with your hands in your pockets, unless you're instigating an unarmed man.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 3, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> Never start a fight with your hands in your pockets, unless you're instigating an unarmed man.



Confucius say.. woman who fly plane upside down have big crack up...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Confucius say.. woman who fly plane upside down have big crack up...



I dunno.... couldn't come up with a better come back....


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## SifuPhil (Oct 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Confucius say.. woman who fly plane upside down have big crack up...



Confucius say, man who eat crackers in bed wake up feeling crummy.


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## oakapple (Oct 3, 2015)

Poor old Crummy.


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## oakapple (Oct 3, 2015)

Or even Crumby!


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## oakapple (Oct 3, 2015)

In all seriousness, we were saddened here to learn this had happened in yet another school/college.It seems to happen with terrible regularity in the U.S.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 3, 2015)

oakapple said:


> Or even Crumby!



Interesting point. Here's what The Grammarist says ...



> *Crummy*means_ shabby, miserable, or of little value__._ The word was originally spelled *crumby*, but _crumby _is shedding that definition and is increasingly confined to its older senses—(1) _full of or covered in crumbs_, and (2) _tending to break into crumbs_. In the second sense, it’s synonymous with _crumbly_.
> 
> _Crumby_ has been in English since the 17th century, and it gained the slang senses now associated with _crummy _in the 19th century.[SUP]1[/SUP] _Crummy _has several little-used old definitions,[SUP]2[/SUP] but it emerged as a newer spelling of _crumby _in its slang senses only in the second half of the 20th century.[SUP]3[/SUP]_ Crumby _still appears in place of _crummy _much  more often than the reverse, but the differentiation is fairly well  established this century and is in evidence in newswriting and books  from around the English-speaking world. A few examples are below.
> 
> ...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 3, 2015)

Confucius say...Baseball is wrong: man with four balls cannot walk.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Confucius say...Baseball is wrong: man with four balls cannot walk.



Confucius say, man who run through airport turnstile         backward going to Bangkok.


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## SifuPhil (Oct 3, 2015)

Whoa - I'm getting out of here ... ain't no one gonna' get funky on MY finely-sculpted cheeks ...


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## Shalimar (Oct 3, 2015)

You guys! Lolololol. God, you made me laugh!


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