# Okay, I have some doubts about this climate



## hawkdon (Aug 25, 2022)

thing that everyone is hollering about....let's see the earth is 10 milliion yrs old or
so, we humans I think have been around maybe 3000 yrs....so earth went under 
constant change before humans, but we humans have had a relatively short time
to ruin the thing.......what....how can this be true, how can we few people have caused
a disaster of drought/fires/shortages/loss of habitat/extinction of animals, all in only 3000 years or so.....so anyway there is my take......don


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## Tish (Aug 25, 2022)

The thing I do not understand is how protests will help the situation.


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## Grampa Don (Aug 25, 2022)

Humans have been around a lot longer than 3000 years.  But, most of that time we were hunter gatherers and didn't do much damage.  And, our population was low because of high death rates.

And then we got clever.  We discovered fossil fuels and we started using them.  We reduced our death rate and multiplied like crazy.  Now, there are 8 billion of us.  That's 8,000,000,000.  Our civilization is built on fossil fuels.  Our atmosphere which seems huge when you look up at the clouds is really a super thin layer.  And we have been pumping carbon dioxide and other pollutants into it at a crazy rate.

Thousands of scientists have been measuring these changes, and simple physics predicts what the results will be.  And now we are seeing those results.  No surprise.

In the end, the situation will fix itself.  Conditions will be such that our population will drop drastically.  The fossil fuels will run out, and most of us will be gone.  But, it will not be pleasant for our descendants, if there are any.


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## MarciKS (Aug 25, 2022)

without all of today's technology they couldn't screw up the environment.


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## rhett48 (Aug 25, 2022)

@Grampa Don nailed it. A quick look at population increase and fossil fuel combustion increase over the last few hundred years explains a lot. Yes, there are natural phenomena (Pinatubo, for example) that can temporarily override or exaggerate human caused changes, but to deny that we're contributing to our climate issues defies logic and science.


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## Been There (Aug 25, 2022)

Grampa Don said:


> Humans have been around a lot longer than 3000 years.  But, most of that time we were hunter gatherers and didn't do much damage.  And, our population was low because of high death rates.
> 
> And then we got clever.  We discovered fossil fuels and we started using them.  We reduced our death rate and multiplied like crazy.  Now, there are 8 billion of us.  That's 8,000,000,000.  Our civilization is built on fossil fuels.  Our atmosphere which seems huge when you look up at the clouds is really a super thin layer.  And we have been pumping carbon dioxide and other pollutants into it at a crazy rate.
> 
> ...


I am a bit slow tonight. What exactly are you alluding to ?


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## HoneyNut (Aug 25, 2022)

Tish said:


> The thing I do not understand is how protests will help the situation.


Here's an article about how they are effective:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world


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## Grampa Don (Aug 25, 2022)

Been There said:


> I am a bit slow tonight. What exactly are you alluding to ?


I guess I'm a little slow too.  Would you like me to clarify anything?


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## Tish (Aug 26, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> Here's an article about how they are effective:
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world


Thank you for that,


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## JustBonee (Aug 31, 2022)

Also, this is a long, and interesting article about the future from  TIME Magazine. 


Where We Will Live As The Planet Burns ..

https://time.com/6209432/climate-change-where-we-will-live/


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## Jackie23 (Aug 31, 2022)

Bonnie said:


> Also, this is a long, and interesting article about the future from  TIME Magazine.
> 
> 
> Where We Will Live As The Planet Burns ..
> ...


Wow!  Very interesting, sounds like Canada is the place to be, their population expected to triple by 2100....change is coming.


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## officerripley (Aug 31, 2022)

Bonnie said:


> Also, this is a long, and interesting article about the future from  TIME Magazine.
> 
> 
> Where We Will Live As The Planet Burns ..
> ...


Great article, thanks for posting.


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## JustBonee (Aug 31, 2022)

Jackie23 said:


> Wow!  Very interesting, sounds like Canada is the place to be, their population expected to triple by 2100....change is coming.





officerripley said:


> Great article, thanks for posting.



It does sound like Canada will be the future  --  that or Siberia, and I don't think any of us would care to think of that as a 'future home' for our future  generations.


@Pinky,  @MickaC, @mike4lorie   and  other forum  members from Canada -  if you haven't seen the article,  it's thought provoking.


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## JustBonee (Aug 31, 2022)

And I wish the whole article was a little easier to read online   - too much advertising  in there


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## Don M. (Aug 31, 2022)

It will not be more than a few decades before a mass migration of 100's of millions will occur.  Those migrants will be leaving any properties and most of their wealth behind as they struggle for a new life in a better climate.  The world will become increasingly divided between the Haves and Have Nots, which will ultimately lead to a massive global civil war.  By the year 2100, humanity will be totally involved in a complete restructuring of society.


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## Pinky (Aug 31, 2022)

Have to subscribe to read the article


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## JustBonee (Aug 31, 2022)

Pinky said:


> Have to subscribe to read the article



DRATS!


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## officerripley (Aug 31, 2022)

Pinky said:


> Have to subscribe to read the article


I didn't have to.


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## JustBonee (Aug 31, 2022)

Pinky is in Canada.

Wonder if the following can be viewed in Canada?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/t...end-up-living-as-the-planet-burns/ar-AA11iZFQ


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## SeniorBen (Aug 31, 2022)

Here's another source for the article...
https://www.massnews.com/where-well-end-up-living-as-the-planet-burns/


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## Alligatorob (Aug 31, 2022)

hawkdon said:


> but we humans have had a relatively short time
> to ruin the thing.......what....how can this be true, how can we few people have caused
> a disaster of drought/fires/shortages/loss of habitat/extinction of animals, all in only 3000 years or so.


We've changed the makeup of the atmosphere, the color of the earth, and diverted a lot of its freshwaters.  Just to name a few.  I have always thought the Ruddiman hypothesis that we have been impacting the climate for the last 7,000 years makes some sense.  To quote:

_The early anthropogenic hypothesis (EAH) of Ruddiman (2003) claimed that the anomalous rise in atmospheric CO2 that began near 7000 years ago was caused by deforestation and contrasted with the falling trends late in previous interglaciations (Fig. 1a). The hypothesis also attributed the start of a similarly anomalous increase of methane (CH4) near 5000 years ago to anthropogenic emissions from large-scale rice paddy farming and livestock tending._


From: _The early anthropogenic hypothesis: A review  https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...s (EAH,late in previous interglaciations (Fig._


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## officerripley (Aug 31, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> We've changed the makeup of the atmosphere, the color of the earth, and diverted a lot of its freshwaters.  Just to name a few.  I have always thought the Ruddiman hypothesis that we have been impacting the climate for the last 7,000 years makes some sense.  To quote:
> 
> _The early anthropogenic hypothesis (EAH) of Ruddiman (2003) claimed that the anomalous rise in atmospheric CO2 that began near 7000 years ago was caused by deforestation and contrasted with the falling trends late in previous interglaciations (Fig. 1a). The hypothesis also attributed the start of a similarly anomalous increase of methane (CH4) near 5000 years ago to anthropogenic emissions from large-scale rice paddy farming and livestock tending._
> View attachment 237183
> ...


What I have a hard time understanding is how one could think that 8 billion people, I mean _*8 billion*_, could not have an effect. I really don't understand that thinking. _*Eight. Billion. People.*_


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## Pinky (Aug 31, 2022)

Bonnie said:


> Pinky is in Canada.
> 
> Wonder if the following can be viewed in Canada?
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/t...end-up-living-as-the-planet-burns/ar-AA11iZFQ


Yes, the link is available to me .. thank you!

The weather here in Canada is as changeable as anywhere else. For instance, Vancouver got more snow last winter than usual, and was hotter than usual this summer. 

We didn't get that much snow here in Toronto, last winter .. however, predictions are that we will get a fair bit this winter.


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## JustBonee (Sep 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> We've changed the makeup of the atmosphere, the color of the earth, and diverted a lot of its freshwaters.  Just to name a few.  I have always thought the Ruddiman hypothesis that we have been impacting the climate for the last 7,000 years makes some sense.  To quote:
> 
> _The early anthropogenic hypothesis (EAH) of Ruddiman (2003) claimed that the anomalous rise in atmospheric CO2 that began near 7000 years ago was caused by deforestation and contrasted with the falling trends late in previous interglaciations (Fig. 1a). The hypothesis also attributed the start of a similarly anomalous increase of methane (CH4) near 5000 years ago to anthropogenic emissions from large-scale rice paddy farming and livestock tending._
> View attachment 237183
> ...



That's a lot to absorb! ...


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## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

Bonnie said:


> That's a lot to absorb!


Yep, I suppose it is...

But really understanding climate change is complicated.  I think a lot of people just quickly develop opinions on things like this without really trying to understand...


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## JustBonee (Sep 1, 2022)

The Amazon Rainforest has always been of interest to me,  and the reports of the deforestation are so alarming. 
They talk of the tipping point,  but yet,  there is  so little help in that area while it continues on. 

https://www.greenpeace.org/aotearoa/story/amazon-forest-deforestation-climate-tipping-point/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_rainforest


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## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

Bonnie said:


> The Amazon Rainforest has always been of interest to me, and the reports of the deforestation are so alarming.
> They talk of the tipping point, but yet, there is so little help in that area while it continues on.


I agree, it is unfortunate, I wish it wasn't happening and believe it will have global level impacts.  I have seen deforestation on the ground in the Amazon, and in Indonesia, I hate it.

However we are not in a great position to lecture others on this one.  We cut most all of our native forests years ago, with significant impact.  It seems to me places like Brazil are just doing what we did.  And it does help their economies, producing timber and cattle, and opening new areas to settlement and farming.  Same benefits we enjoyed from doing it here.

I have also seen deforestation in the US, and hate seeing that too...

It is a complex problem, not one I know a solution to.  The real problem is population, too many people on the earth...


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