# Grumpy is GOOD!



## SifuPhil (Mar 2, 2013)

A recent study by the American Psychological Association involving 40,000 German people aged 18 to 96 has concluded, after 10 years of study, that being a pessimist may actually be better for your health than being optimistic.
​
 	Those interviewed were asked to rate how satisfied they were with their lives and how satisfied they might be in five years. More than two-thirds of older Germans aged 65 to 96 who thought life would only get worse actually had better health outcomes.


  	In contrast, those who were overly optimistic about the days ahead had a greater risk of disability or death within 10 years.

The main conclusion was that optimists "close their eyes" to reality and do not take appropriate actions to avoid bad health scenarios, while pessimists may take more precautions about their foreseeable problems.

Finally - scientific proof that I've been right all along!


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## pchinvegas (Mar 2, 2013)

I'm freakin doomed !


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## Ozarkgal (Mar 2, 2013)

I prefer to be called a realist instead of a pessimist. I subscribe to Murpy's law..If anything bad can happen, it will. Unfortunately, this a tried and true law in my case.  I always weigh the risk vs. the dividend.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 2, 2013)

pchinvegas said:


> I'm freakin doomed !



LOL! See? SEE?!? That's what you get for being so Mary Poppins! layful:



Ozarkgal said:


> I prefer to be called a realist instead of a pessimist. I subscribe to Murpy's law..If anything bad can happen, it will. Unfortunately, this a tried and true law in my case.  I always weigh the risk vs. the dividend.



I've always thought that "realist" and "pessimist" were the same words. The way I see it, by not having any expectations, hopes or dreams you can never be disappointed.


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## R. Zimm (Mar 2, 2013)

Mabe they are just more easily satisfied since their expectations are also lower. That makes more sense to me relating to this study. Most people however, have a personality and that is how they are "wired" and they basically stay that way throughout their lives.


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## Ozarkgal (Mar 2, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I've always thought that "realist" and "pessimist" were the same words. The way I see it, by not having any expectations, hopes or dreams you can never be disappointed.



*Realist*
n. a person who accepts the world as it literally is and deals with it accordingly

*Pessimist*
n. One who exaggerates the evils of life or is disposed to see only its dark side; one who is given to melancholy or depressing views of life.

According to these definitions, I am more of a realist than a pessimist....

 I've never seen myself as having no expectations, hopes or dreams....believe me I am a dreamer and expect a lot and always hope everything works out. I don't think I would have accomplished what I have in life if I were an example of your definition.

There is a great difference between seeing things as they really are and acting and making decisions accordingly, as opposed to having a defeatist attitude and never trying. 


“Ms. O'TOOLE: Well, I have -- I-- I finally figured out that I'm a short-term pessimist and a long-term optimist.”
_Money & Morals in America_


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## FishWisher (Mar 2, 2013)

I'm not German so maybe none of this applies to me anyway...

But Phil, the premise of all this seems to equate pessimism with being grumpy. I am generally an optimist and yet have received as a gift from a close friend, a hat that is inscribed _Caution! Grumpy Old Man_.  I am a recognized grump. And I am optimistic. And now, confused.


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## Ozarkgal (Mar 2, 2013)

FishWisher....this is you then:

“Ms. O'TOOLE: Well, I have -- I-- I finally figured out that I'm a short-term pessimist and a long-term optimist.”


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## FishWisher (Mar 2, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> FishWisher....this is you then:
> 
> “Ms. O'TOOLE: Well, I have -- I-- I finally figured out that I'm a short-term pessimist and a long-term optimist.”


 
Thanks, Ozarkgal!  I am very pleased to know that I am a _LONG TERM_ something. Anything! At this time of life such comments are very encouraging.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 2, 2013)

R. Zimm said:


> Mabe they are just more easily satisfied since their expectations are also lower. That makes more sense to me relating to this study. Most people however, have a personality and that is how they are "wired" and they basically stay that way throughout their lives.



Very true - we rarely change our basic personalities, just a few of our beliefs and many of our prejudices.



Ozarkgal said:


> *Realist*
> n. a person who accepts the world as it literally is and deals with it accordingly
> 
> *Pessimist*
> ...



I don't as a rule use resources such as Wordnik in my work, because they are a portmanteau of sources - in fact, Wordnik even uses Wictionary, a crowd-sourced dictionary. Although that's quite a democratic way of determining the etiology of a word it's rarely the correct way. I prefer the industry-standard methods of determining word usage - sources such as the OED:



> *1. * A tendency to stress the negative or unfavorable or to take the gloomiest possible view: "We have seen too much defeatism, too much pessimism, too much of a negative approach" (Margo Jones).
> *2. * The doctrine or belief that this is the worst of all possible worlds and that all things ultimately tend toward evil.
> *3. * The doctrine or belief that the evil in the world outweighs the good.



This offers a bit more varied view of "pessimism", one that is not exclusively tied to negativism. One can acknowledge the bad in the world without being consumed by it, just as one does not necessarily have to become depressed or suicidal about the evil men do.



> I've never seen myself as having no expectations, hopes or dreams....believe me I am a dreamer and expect a lot and always hope everything works out. I don't think I would have accomplished what I have in life if I were an example of your definition.



Having one's dreams and hopes dashed takes a mental and emotional toll. I've always been of the opinion that we have a limited bank of such emotions to draw upon before our "account" goes dry. Actively pursuing a course of action that stands a good chance of failing - "I'm going to be the first man to beat a cheetah in a foot-race!" - means putting yourself at risk of coming that much closer to emotional bankruptcy. 

Dreams are nice and are indisputably the fuel that drive many; but you have to "balance the books" somehow when the eventual dashing upon the rocks occurs. 



> There is a great difference between seeing things as they really are and acting and making decisions accordingly, as opposed to having a defeatist attitude and never trying.



I think we're diametrically opposed in life philosophies. 

"Trying" means acknowledging the chance of failure, opening yourself to the possibility of not achieving what you desire. As wise old Yoda once said (cribbed from Zhuangzi, a Taoist philosopher) "There is no "try"; DO or DO NOT." Commit yourself 100%, or don't even bother; don't give it a half-hearted attempt and console yourself with platitudes when you fail. 

A defeatist attitude, by the way, is different than a pessimistic one. Think about it ... 




FishWisher said:


> I'm not German so maybe none of this applies to me anyway...
> 
> But Phil, the premise of all this seems to equate pessimism with being grumpy. I am generally an optimist and yet have received as a gift from a close friend, a hat that is inscribed _Caution! Grumpy Old Man_.  I am a recognized grump. And I am optimistic. And now, confused.



Unfortunately, the world sees pessimists as being grumpy. The Mary Poppins that surround us will always think of us as barbaric, primitive organisms that spew hatred and depression wherever we go, but of course such is not the case. I do however admit that I may have mis-spoke when I used "grumpy" in the thread title.


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## Ozarkgal (Mar 3, 2013)

*Phil...I feel like I've been spanked and sent to my room without supper. You indicate that a pessimist/realist has no expectations, hopes or dreams.   I have tried to decipher the thought process in this post and your prior answer to my post wherein I stated I was more a realist than a pessimist.
* 



			
				SifuPhil;6816[/COLOR said:
			
		

> I've always thought that "realist" and "pessimist" were the same words. The way I see it, by not having any expectations, hopes or dreams you can never be disappointed.




*I am not sure why a realist or pessimist, (as you have professed are the same according to your "resources"), does not have any expectations, hopes or dreams.  I don't believe these are characteristics of optimists only. Are you making a general statement about pessimists or referring to yourself or me?
*


> I don't as a rule use resources such as Wordnik in my work, because they are a portmanteau of sources - in fact, Wordnik even uses Wictionary, a crowd-sourced dictionary. Although that's quite a democratic way of determining the etiology of a word it's rarely the correct way. I prefer the industry-standard methods of determining word usage - sources such as the OEID:



*Everything is open to interpretation.  We all like to use the resources that support our point of view.
*


> This offers a bit more varied view of "pessimism", one that is not exclusively tied to negativism. One can acknowledge the bad in the world without being consumed by it, just as one does not necessarily have to become depressed or suicidal about the evil men do.



*The examples of quotes you provided seem extremely negative to me.*




> Having one's dreams and hopes dashed takes a mental and emotional toll. I've always been of the opinion that we have a limited bank of such emotions to draw upon before our "account" goes dry. Actively pursuing a course of action that stands a good chance of failing - "I'm going to be the first man to beat a cheetah in a foot-race!" - means putting yourself at risk of coming that much closer to emotional bankruptcy.





> Dreams are nice and are indisputably the fuel that drive many, but you have to "balance the books" somehow when the eventual dashing upon the rocks occurs.



*Having dreams to accomplish things that are realistic is what makes the world go 'round, and not to be confused with a perpetual "dreamer" that is delusional. If having a dream to do something realistic or achievable fails, a reasonable person may re-define his goal or dream and try again. That is of course unless you fail at skydiving or something equally difficult to re-define.**

Dashing upon the rocks occasionally is part of life. A realist knows this. You re-group and go on.

**But for sure, I carefully weigh the pros and cons of most situations before acting. If something is so far out of the realm of possibility of achieving and one forges ahead anyway, one becomes a "delusional dreamer", and not a realist or even an optimist.

 For example, if I am riding a horse that I know only has the maximum ability to clear a 4' fence and I jump him over that fence everyday with success, then one day I decide to take him over a 7' wall, I have crossed the line from being a realist, to being a delusional dreamer or a hair brained optimist (or having a death wish). **

If I am a pessimist (or just plain chicken), I probably would not jump him over any fence at all, thinking only the worst could happen.
**
I agree one has to "balance the books", as is true of all things in life.  I'm a Libra, so all things must be balanced*. 





> I think we're diametrically opposed in life philosophies.



*From your post I can't say for sure say whether we are or we aren't.  I  can't figure out your position, except if I am reading the last paragraph correctly,  you are "grumpy"*



*.. (pessimist).* *Realistically, I'm grumpy too I guess, because I'm sure no Mary Poppins.
*


> "Trying" means acknowledging the chance of failure, opening yourself to the possibility of not achieving what you desire. As wise old Yoda once said (cribbed from Zhuangzi, a Taoist philosopher) "There is no "try"; DO or DO NOT." Commit yourself 100%, or don't even bother; don't give it a half-hearted attempt and console yourself with platitudes when you fail.


*
I do not understand the above statement concerning "trying".  Does the wise old Yoda mean that when you have some goal or accomplishment you hope to achieve, you first stand back and determine in your mind whether you can for sure reach the goal, and if you're not sure you don't even try?  
Damn...there's that "try" word again.

 Failing or falling short doesn't mean you haven't personally committed yourself 100% .  There can be many situations that arise during the quest of accomplishing something, that may cause one to fail or fall short.  It doesn't necessarily stand that it was a half hearted attempt, or even that the outcome was all negative.

Goals or dreams to accomplish, achieve or acquire something in my life are not half-heartedly attempted, nor do I offer up excuses when I may fail. 

I have personally in my life, as most people have, made many attempts to achieve goals and dreams.  For me, some worked out splendidly,  some didn't  work out as planned, or at all.  But sometimes things work out better, just in a different way. 

Any accomplishments made would not have happened  had I sat back and questioned whether I could for certain achieve that goal, and if there was any question of failure, abandon the idea.   *
*Again,I don't see what having hopes, dreams or expectations have to do with whether you are optimistic or pessimistic. I think all people have them,at least to some degree.*



> A defeatist attitude, by the way, is different than a pessimistic one. Think about it ...



*Yes, you are right about this.   *




> Unfortunately, the world sees pessimists as being grumpy. The Mary Poppins that surround us will always think of us as barbaric, primitive organisms that spew hatred and depression wherever we go, but of course such is not the case. I do however admit that I may have mis-spoke when I used "grumpy" in the thread title


.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 4, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Phil...I feel like I've been spanked and sent to my room without supper.



I would say the immediate item to be addressed is, did you _enjoy_ it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






> You indicate that a pessimist/realist has no expectations, hopes or dreams.   I have tried to decipher the thought process in this post and your prior answer to my post wherein I stated I was more a realist than a pessimist.
> 
> I am not sure why a realist or pessimist, (as you have professed are the same according to your "resources"), does not have any expectations, hopes or dreams.  I don't believe these are characteristics of optimists only. Are you making a general statement about pessimists or referring to yourself or me?



Not ALL pessimists / realists have no dreams - just the ones trained in Taoist philosophy, and of THOSE only the ones who find that it suits their needs.





> Everything is open to interpretation.  We all like to use the resources that support our point of view.



Not everything. In the worlds of science, mathematics and logic the predominant model is to be as precise in one's actions as possible. NASA could not have landed a car-sized piece of scientific laboratory equipment on a target half the size of Earth, 140,000,000 miles away and moving at 55,000 MPH if they had settled for "interpretation".

The English language (American style) has unfortunately devolved as it has evolved. Already it was one of the poorer languages in the world for descriptive purposes - the Sami people who are native inhabitants of the Arctic circle have over 180 words for "snow" and over 1,000 words for "reindeer". Each word has a very specific meaning, one that cannot be mistaken for any other, unlike the English language where such open interpretations of "optimism" and "pessimism" are allowed to exist. 

Of course, this goes hand-in-hand with the reigning philosophy of America to allow ANY meaning for a word as long as it doesn't offend anyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







> The examples of quotes you provided seem extremely negative to me.



Yes and no. Do you believe that "evil" is *always* necessarily bad, or that "good" is *always* the best course of action to follow? If so, then yes, the definitions I used would appear to be "negative" to you.




> Having dreams to accomplish things that are realistic is what makes the world go 'round, and not to be confused with a perpetual "dreamer" that is delusional. If having a dream to do something realistic or achievable fails, a reasonable person may re-define his goal or dream and try again. That is of course unless you fail at skydiving or something equally difficult to re-define.



I would venture to call that the "Disney Version of Life". To my way of thinking (an admitted pessimist, realist and grump) dreams do not make the world go round. The Earth formed out of a nebula that collapsed. As the nebula collapsed  it began rotating, which may seem odd, but actually not rotating is far  stranger than rotating. The Earth's rotation comes from the initial  tendency to rotate that was imparted on it when it formed, and there is  nothing (other than the tidal forces of the Moon, which are weak) to  slow it down.

Therefore it is physical laws that make the world go 'round, not dreams. You're using platitudes and poetic license - I'm using fact-based declarations. 

Of course, a person whose reality consists ONLY of dreams has problems that are far too complex to be addressed here.



> Dashing upon the rocks occasionally is part of life. A realist knows this. You re-group and go on.
> 
> But for sure, I carefully weigh the pros and cons of most situations before acting. If something is so far out of the realm of possibility of achieving and one forges ahead anyway, one becomes a "delusional dreamer", and not a realist or even an optimist.
> 
> ...


 

See our discussion of "trying" below - I think this part of your reply will be germane to that discussion.



> From your post I can't say for sure say whether we are or we aren't.  I  can't figure out your position, except if I am reading the last paragraph correctly,  you are "grumpy".. (pessimist).               Realistically, I'm grumpy too I guess, because I'm sure no Mary Poppins.



To quote another wise old sage, Popeye - "I yam what I yam". Most often what I yam is labeled "pessimist", often given the sobriquet "grumpy".



> I do not understand the above statement concerning "trying".  Does the wise old Yoda mean that when you have some goal or accomplishment you hope to achieve, you first stand back and determine in your mind whether you can for sure reach the goal, and if you're not sure you don't even try?
> Damn...there's that "try" word again.
> 
> Failing or falling short doesn't mean you haven't personally committed yourself 100% .  There can be many situations that arise during the quest of accomplishing something, that may cause one to fail or fall short.  It doesn't necessarily stand that it was a half hearted attempt, or even that the outcome was all negative.
> ...



I think perhaps you've taken the idea of trying / not trying a little too literally. Let me see if I can explain it better ...

It isn't a matter of pre-judging a situation. It isn't gambling - you don't first figure out the odds of success and failure and proceed according to what benefits you the most. It's about attitude: the _attitude_ of doing anything. If we "try" to do something, by stating it in that terms - or even by thinking about it in those terms - we have already limited our chances for success. We have admitted there is a possibility of failure. This allows doubt into our minds, followed closely by rationalizations for why we SHOULD not / CANNOT accomplish the task. We fall back on the comfort of telling ourselves we're only human and that humans fail all the time.

It's a defeatist attitude. We have set ourselves up for defeat using only a single word and the awesome power of our mind, a mind that has no prejudices - it will as readily help us defeat ourselves as help us succeed. 

"Commitment" is something that, at least in this particular philosophy, should not even be a question. When you set out to accomplish a task you give it everything you've got - anything less (the so-called "slacker" attitude) and once again you've pre-defined the conditions for your failure. But we as a culture are taught in many different ways to hold back, to conserve, to "save a little for later", and most importantly (and destructively) we are now taught from an early age that IT IS OK TO FAIL, AS LONG AS YOU GAVE IT YOUR BEST TRY.

Bullshit.

This is just another part of the dumbing-down process that has taken over both our educational system and our society at large. In the philosophy from which the "do or do not" quote comes there are many examples of just how far you are expected to go and how focused on victory you should be, while simultaneously not even acknowledging the possibility of failure, no matter HOW seemingly impossible the task is. According to the _Hagakure_, the 18th-century "book of the samurai" written by Yamamoto Tsunetomo, 



> Even if one's head were to be suddenly cut off, he should be able to do  one more action with certainty. With martial valor, if one becomes like a  revengeful ghost and shows great determination, though his head is cut  off, he should not die.



THAT, my dear friend, is DOING. THAT is INTENT, pure and simple, and THAT is the kind of attitude I'm talking about here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







> Again,I don't see what having hopes, dreams or expectations have to do with whether you are optimistic or pessimistic. I think all people have them,at least to some degree.



"To some degree", yes; in MY world, the fewer you have the better.


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## Ozarkgal (Mar 4, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> > I would say the immediate item to be addressed is, did you _enjoy_ it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## SifuPhil (Mar 4, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Sounds kind of slippery....do you have to be a pessimistic Tao philosopher in order to have no dreams, and are Taoist who have dreams to suit their needs really Taoist?



You don't have to be Jewish to love Levy's ... (remember that commercial, or was that just a NY thing?)

No, you don't have to be a pessimistic Taoist in order to have no dreams - you could be a pessimistic Buddhist, or Jew, or Catholic, or ...

Taoists who DO have dreams are of course still Taoists - they simply follow a different Way.



> By "dreams" I am not referring literally to visions that come to you while sleeping.  A better substitute for the word dreams would be goals.
> In your opinion can you be a non-Taoist and have a lack of dreams/goals?



Yes, certainly a non-Taoist can have no dreams or goals. 




> We can't seem to agree on one version of the meaning of two words, think of debating the meaning of 180 words for one word.  I'll stick with my  evolved devolved English. I have enough comprehension problems it seems.
> 
> (You should have auditioned for Cliff Claven's character on "Cheers"..you know an amazing amount of trivia).



 LOL - and I'm probably just as friendless and annoying! 



> I see the reigning philosophy in America as not allowing any *words* that offend anyone, regardless of their meaning or suffer the wrath of the thought and speech police.
> 
> By the way you should be careful in using that particular emoticon. School kids have been suspended for merely drawing a picture out of gun, munching a pastry into the shape of a gun and shooting bubbles from a plastic gun. They may come and take you away...heh..heh, deeming you emotionally unstable and dangerous.



That's true, unfortunately.

I remember reading recently about the Hello Kitty bubble-gun thing - ridiculous. I wouldn't mind if they took me away - I'd have three hots and a cot, and once again it would be publicly confirmed that I am indeed unstable and dangerous - I'm the U-238 of my block!





> When one reads another's writing, the reader can only interpret the writing to a certain degree. The reader cannot fully determine how deep the writer is thinking when putting the words down. Generally, I take them at face value, as it pertains to my thinking. I usually cannot know what prompted the writer to write the words. So yes, taking the quotes at face value, I deem them negative. It was not explained in the writing in what context evil is not evil and good is not good.



Granted. I was just using it as an example to further our discussion.




> Is Taoism fact based or a philosophy?



Yes. 



> You responses seem to be vascillating between "fact-based declarations" and philosophy. In going back to my thoughts about not knowing what a writer is truly thinking as they are writing. I doubt anyone would read what I wrote concerning dreams making the world go 'round, and literally think the world would fall off it's axis tomorrow if every one stopped having goals or expectations.
> 
> It's for certain though, for good or bad, the modern world would not exist today, but for people who have dreams, goals and expectations.  As far as I know, both pessimists and optimists have contributed to this evolution, maybe a study should be commissioned by the government to explore that.



That's true - I was just word-playing with your response about the world. But isn't it funny how you expected me to know the meaning you had in mind? If I were of a totally literal bent - a yes or no person - there was a 50% chance I would have taken your statement at face value.

As a pessimist, I doubt that the government could find the funding for such a study, especially now that the country has hung a "CLOSED - GONE FISHING" sign on the front door.

Look at it this way - poets are widely known to be dreamers, right? What do they contribute to the world, except a brief play of emotion? What about the folks who dream all day and night of great accomplishments, but never leave their sofa? How do THEY contribute anything? 

Politicians ... politicians have big dreams (usually of becoming rich and powerful) - where has THAT gotten us? 




> Yes, there are medical terms for those individuals.



Lu-lu. Beyond the bend. Over the rainbow. Toys in the attic. Window lickers. Short-bus riders. Yes, there ARE terms. 




> I think millions of people would disagree with you...it's called *making decisions*. Decisions are part of life and are made many times on a daily basis, to highly varying degrees of importance, concerning not only what benefits the person themself, but also their families, job responsibilities, and other areas of importance in their lives. To a degree, I guess you could say that making decisions is a bit like gambling. Some decisions work out to expectations and some not at all.



The act of making a decision, especially in the way you describe it, is just marking time. It's putting off the inevitable. It's hoping something will happen in the meantime to make your choice easier.

Yet even when all of the decision-making process is completed, they have yet to arrive at the critical juncture - TO ACT. I've known many people - in fact, many schools and therapists teach this technique - that make long 2-coulmns lists of "GOOD" and "BAD" whenever they have to take action. The list-making itself is a stall - it gives them something to do to put off having to take action. 

Far better, but much rarer, is to act instinctively and immediately. DO. Don't spend years making lists or weighing pros and cons - either defecate or get off the appliance. Indecision and wavering have always been the signs of a weak constitution.




> I also agree that this country has totally dumbed down society. This has been done by design through education, no child left behind policies that teach to the lowest common denominator, entitlements to pander to the products of no child left behind for political votes, and the collusion of main stream media to suppress what is really happening in this country, and the moral degeneration....uhoh...enough said, or there may be a drone landing on my window sill this evening.



LOL! I could join you in that rant ...



> Well, I guess you can tell I am not an optimist, but am I a pessimist or realist. Do I have a pessimistic viewpoint, or is this what is _really _happening



I think now you're asking me to apply a label onto you, which of course I cannot do even if I were of a mind to. 





> I know you are not totally devoid of any dreams, based on your posts in another thread you are comtemplating a move to be near water. Or is this not a dream (not a delusional one)?



I don't see it as being a dream; it doesn't occupy my every waking moment, I'm not making lists about it, I won't be asking many people what they think I should do. I brought it up here solely as a conversational point, not a plea for guidance. The way I operate (and this actually occurred once when I was 18), one day, without any advance notice, there will be a sign on my roommate's refrigerator - 

"GONE TO FLORIDA - DON'T WAIT UP"

It will be my action based upon the thought or feeling of a single moment, not the culmination of months of research.


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## Ozarkgal (Mar 4, 2013)

Good spirited debate...now what was it we were talking about?


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## SifuPhil (Mar 4, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> Good spirited debate...now what was it we were talking about?



I don't know - I think my Alzheimer's has set in.

Oh, yeah - Grumpy is good. "Good", of course, being a matter of perspective ...


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## FishWisher (Mar 5, 2013)

To anyone who could actually follow this thread, congratulations! :miserable: You are either above average intelligence, or well below. I wouldn't know.

But from a certifiable grump, let me say that a real grump couldn't care less about all this verbiage!


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## pchinvegas (Mar 5, 2013)

Damn, I missed the spanking !


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## SifuPhil (Mar 5, 2013)

FishWisher said:


> To anyone who could actually follow this thread, congratulations! :miserable: You are either above average intelligence, or well below. I wouldn't know.



There's a third possibility ... insane.



> But from a certifiable grump, let me say that a real grump couldn't care less about all this verbiage!



Before I take your word for that, I'll need to see your Grump Certificate ... 



pchinvegas said:


> Damn, I missed the spanking !



I made a pay-per-view of it, in High Definition and Dolby Surround, for anyone who missed it. Only $9.95, available on www.spankingsifu.com layful:


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## Ozarkgal (Mar 5, 2013)

The majority of the thread came about as a result of my labeling myself as a realist and not a pessimist...and Phil's opinion that they are one and the same. 

 Please don't feel obligated to respond with an opinion as to whether or not they are the same...I don't have the energy to continue this or spar with Phil again soon (damn, he's good), 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




unless I am well fortified with lots of martini's, which I wasn't at the time of the above writings,  but may be by the time you read this...LOL... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (giant double olives, please)

 I apologize for myself for hi-jacking this thread...boring for most of you, I'm sure. But it was great fun, and it's not often I get the opportunity to think deeply and debate with someone anymore. I also learned a great deal about another person's philosophy of life, which is a great thing. 

 Also, as everyone probably knows by now, Phil is a master of language.   He could probably talk the paint off a wall and then convince you the wall is red....LOL


What did I just say???
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Oh, and Phil, marketing that spanking wasn't part of the deal.....


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 5, 2013)

FishWisher said:


> To anyone who could actually follow this thread, congratulations! :miserable: You are either above average intelligence, or well below. I wouldn't know.



:iagree:...I too, was lost a long time ago in this thread, LOL! :nevreness:


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## SifuPhil (Mar 5, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> The majority of the thread came about as a result of my labeling myself as a realist and not a pessimist...and Phil's opinion that they are one and the same.
> 
> Please don't feel obligated to respond with an opinion as to whether or not they are the same...I don't have the energy to continue this or spar with Phil again soon (damn, he's good),
> 
> ...



Aw, thank ye, m'Lady! I'm not sure that I'm a master of language, though - just of blarney (I'm quarter Irish). 

Every once in a while it's good to dive below the surface and see what kinds of weird fishies are down there, instead of just looking at the same old surface-feeders.

As for the spanking - you're in for 50%.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 5, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> :iagree:...I too, was lost a long time ago in this thread, LOL! :nevreness:



And just imagine ... I made my living for most of my life by talking like that to my students!

Will wonders never cease? layful: 

Hey, I have to justify all that time and money I put into my metaphysics degree, right?


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 5, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I'm not sure that I'm a master of language, though - just of blarney (I'm quarter Irish).



Ahh...can tell St. Patty's Day is right round the corner!  :distracted:


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## SifuPhil (Mar 5, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> Ahh...can tell St. Patty's Day is right round the corner!  :distracted:



Oh, St. Patty's Day ... sure, an' begorrah ... I've kissed me share o' blarney stones 'n' be havin' th' gift o' tongue.

... at least, that's what all th' lassies say.


Unfortunately, although I used to have a GREAT time celebrating in NYC, I no longer celebrate any holidays except Philstivus.


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## FishWisher (Mar 5, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> There's a third possibility ... insane.
> 
> 
> Before I take your word for that, I'll need to see your Grump Certificate ...



This is a hat similar to the one a close friend gave me. I got it the old fashioned way; I earned it by reputation! I didn't have to buy it. That's my certificate!


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 5, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> Oh, St. Patty's Day ... sure, an' begorrah ... I've kissed me share o' blarney stones 'n' be havin' th' gift o' tongue.
> 
> ... at least, that's what all th' lassies say.



Ahh...the lassies...they'll say some magical stuff with enough green beer en their bellies! :drinking: Reminds me, I have to get buy some corned beef and cabbage for our annual St. Patrick's Day dinner.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 6, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> Ahh...the lassies...they'll say some magical stuff with enough green beer en their bellies! :drinking: Reminds me, I have to get buy some corned beef and cabbage for our annual St. Patrick's Day dinner.



I never went for green beer ... somehow it just seemed so _wrong_ on so many levels. Now the corned beef and cabbage - when I was a wee lad growing up in the honorable city of Yonkers, NY I used to tag along (actually, get dragged along) with my Mum to Getty Square, the business center of that fair town. She'd do her shopping at the German butcher, pick up cigarettes and cigars for my Dad at the Italian tobacco shop, play the numbers for my aunt at the Polish newsstand, we'd visit the Jewish-run hobby shop for my slot cars and plastic models, and finally we'd go to the Irish "pub" for lunch. I can't remember the name of it off-hand - it probably started with an "O'-" something ... 

I still have occasional flash-backs to the smells of that place: the steam that rose from the serving table, the smell of corned beef and cabbage and slightly-sour beer, the sweet, cloying smell of the whiskey and the mouth-watering taste of beef stew. People were, as I recall, HAPPY there; there were no fights, no long faces, no ranting or raving. It was the kind of place where a kid like me, five years old, could wander around by himself and not be in any danger at all. The staff were all smiles, all the time.

... I think where that pub used to stand is now a Korean-owned dollar store.


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