# It's still called Columbus Day



## chic (Oct 8, 2015)

Wasn't the name supposed to be changed to Indigenous Peoples Day? 

That would be too much of a mouthful for retailers with BIG sales this weekend.  It seems they've decided to keep this weekend's holiday as Columbus Day. I've heard and seen advertisements for it everywhere. Goes to show who calls the shots. 

For clarification, I don't have a problem with this. nthego:

Discuss???


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## Ralphy1 (Oct 8, 2015)

I prefer Columbo Day...


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## QuickSilver (Oct 8, 2015)

Doesn't matter to me... I've never gotten the day off work anyway so it passes unnoticed.


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## jujube (Oct 8, 2015)

The traditional Columbus Day was my dad's birthday, so it was always a big deal for us.


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## Falcon (Oct 8, 2015)

Never thought he deserved a holiday. He didn't know where he was going, nor where he was and called the

Native Americans  "Indians".


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## fureverywhere (Oct 8, 2015)

One of those fun facts I didn't think about until adulthood. But that is a good question. I wonder if any textbooks have perhaps been rewritten towards the idea that Columbus was actually something of a schmuck. Of course some school systems are still doing creation theory. Really though, I was in grade school in the late 60's and early 70's. Vietnam wasn't spoken of even as it was happening. I have seen recent textbooks on that however. Not judgmental but just an explanation of why, what happened, and the eventual outcome.


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## AZ Jim (Oct 8, 2015)

Columbus was a cruel, evil killer of Native Americans.  On Columbus day I dedicate all my bathroom breaks to his memory.


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## Falcon (Oct 8, 2015)

Even though it bugs me AZJim, I have to agree with you on this one.


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## AZ Jim (Oct 8, 2015)

Falcon said:


> Even though it bugs me AZJim, I have to agree with you on this one.



Why does it bug ya John, I agree with you often.  Just because you are a little messed up politically, I still like ya.


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## Debby (Oct 8, 2015)

fureverywhere said:


> One of those fun facts I didn't think about until adulthood. But that is a good question. I wonder if any textbooks have perhaps been rewritten towards the idea that Columbus was actually something of a schmuck. Of course some school systems are still doing creation theory. Really though, I was in grade school in the late 60's and early 70's. Vietnam wasn't spoken of even as it was happening. I have seen recent textbooks on that however. Not judgmental but just an explanation of why, what happened, and the eventual outcome.




Something of a schmuck?  More like a psychopath serial killer sadist from what I've read about his abuse of First Nations people.


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## RadishRose (Oct 8, 2015)




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## RadishRose (Oct 8, 2015)




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## Robusta (Oct 8, 2015)

I don't see it as much of a holiday. Should it be taken away from him?  Who knows.

I see a lot of people looking at 17th century act with 2015 glasses on. It cannot and should not be done. Columbus acted in a way that was perfectly acceptable and often quite laudable for his era. The world would be a vastly different place if it wasn't for him and many others of his ilk.  Would it be better? For some not for others,just different.

There is absolutely no sense bemoaning what has gone before.  If it makes you feel righteous proclaiming the evil done before your time,go for it. For me what is done is done, mankind is what he is and our descendants will be cursing us for some of our actions


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## Falcon (Oct 8, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Why does it bug ya John, I agree with you often.  Just because you are a little messed up politically, I still like ya.



Now, Let's not let this get  *TOO*  cozy.   LOL


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## Underock1 (Oct 8, 2015)

Not defending Columbus in any way. Repeat; *not defending Columbus* in any way.

...but; he _did _"discover" "America". He wasn't the first, and it was not named "America" when he discovered it. A 14th century cartographer took it upon himself to label it thus on a published map after the voyages of Amerigo Vespucci.
Giving all others their due; the Vikings also "discovered" it, as did the people who we now call indigenous natives when they walked over from Asia. Then there is the likely hood of "discovery" by Polynesians, Chinese, and possibly even some Phoenicians. No one seemed to care that the animals and birds were here first. All the word "discover" means is to find something. I have to "discover" where I left my glasses a dozen times a day. _Everyone_ "discovers" sex in one way or another.

With respect to celebrating "Columbus" day; I never thought of it as celebrating Columbus. The real historic significance of the day is that for good or ill it resulted in the European colonization of the Americas. The initial event in a long series that would eventually lead to the birth of the United States.

The name problem. We have "Columbus" day because of the lobbying of The Knights of Columbus, I think back in the thirties. They wanted a day to celebrate an Italian/American hero. Re-naming it "Indigenous Native American Day" is absurd and laughable. Not because of its intent, just because of its length. "Come on in for our Indigenous Native American Day Sale. Bite the head off of a free Columbus ginger bread man." :laugh: 
I offer two alternatives:
1- Rename it "Columbia" day. A mythical Xenia type warrior woman created in Britain, I think in 1734, as a representative image for America. The name is similar. She would appeal to feminists. It might make some confused Colombians happy. She wears a steel bra.
2- Remove the day entirely from all historical significance by re-naming it "Leaf Raking Day".


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## Underock1 (Oct 8, 2015)

Robusta said:


> I don't see it as much of a holiday. Should it be taken away from him?  Who knows.
> 
> I see a lot of people looking at 17th century act with 2015 glasses on. It cannot and should not be done. Columbus acted in a way that was perfectly acceptable and often quite laudable for his era. The world would be a vastly different place if it wasn't for him and many others of his ilk.  Would it be better? For some not for others,just different.
> 
> There is absolutely no sense bemoaning what has gone before.  If it makes you feel righteous proclaiming the evil done before your time,go for it. For me what is done is done, mankind is what he is and our descendants will be cursing us for some of our actions



Very good, Robusta. Hind sight is easy. Historical context is everything.


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## RadishRose (Oct 8, 2015)

Underock, since I am against steel bras, I vote for Leaf-Raking Day


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## Underock1 (Oct 8, 2015)

RadishRose said:


> Underock, since I am against steel bras, I vote for Leaf-Raking Day



I can see that from the woman's view point. Upon reflection I can see it from a man's as well!


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## Underock1 (Oct 8, 2015)

On board the Santa Maria-Oct.8, 1492
"I sailed WSW, making only 35 miles day and night. The sea is like the river of Sevilla, thanks be to God. The air is as balmy as in April in Sevilla, and it is so fragrant that it is a pleasure to breathe it. Very fresh weed has been seen, and there are many land birds flying to the SW, one of which we caught. We have seen gulls, ducks, and a tern."


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## chic (Oct 9, 2015)

Falcon said:


> Never thought he deserved a holiday. He didn't know where he was going, nor where he was and called the
> 
> Native Americans "Indians".




I believe he called them "Indians" because his destination was the west Indies, hence Indians.


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## Underock1 (Oct 9, 2015)

chic said:


> I believe he called them "Indians" because his destination was the west Indies, hence Indians.



The Europeans, especially the Portugese and Spanish were looking for a direct route to the "The Indies" meaning India, China, and Japan by sailing West in order to cut out the expense of all the middle men along the Eastern land route used to import the spices and luxuries of the Orient. Columbus actually thought he had discovered islands close to Japan until the day he died. By "Indians" he was referring to collectively the peoples of India, China, and Japan.


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## Underock1 (Oct 9, 2015)

Underock1 said:


> On board the Santa Maria-Oct.8, 1492
> "I sailed WSW, making only 35 miles day and night. The sea is like the river of Sevilla, thanks be to God. The air is as balmy as in April in Sevilla, and it is so fragrant that it is a pleasure to breathe it. Very fresh weed has been seen, and there are many land birds flying to the SW, one of which we caught. We have seen gulls, ducks, and a tern."



On board the Santa Maria- Oct 9, 1492
"I continued on my course to the SW and made 11 miles. The wind shifted and I ran West by North for 12 miles. I then sailed for another 33 miles. All told, by day and night I went a little more than 60 miles, but told the men that we had gone 51 miles.
All night long we heard birds passing. We must be very close to landfall, thanks be to God.


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## WhatInThe (Oct 9, 2015)

Native American Indian day is fine with me. Some might argue Lief Erikson day, Chinese who crossed the Aleutian Islands day or ET day.

I can't stand local politicians who change the names of streets, parks, buildings etc from Indian tribe in the area to Columbus st, ave what ever to pander to their constituents.

Celebrate the "discovery" of America or the apocalypse depending on your point of view.


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## Underock1 (Oct 9, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Native American Indian day is fine with me. Some might argue Lief Erikson day, Chinese who crossed the Aleutian Islands day or ET day.
> 
> I can't stand local politicians who change the names of streets, parks, buildings etc from Indian tribe in the area to Columbus st, ave what ever to pander to their constituents.
> 
> Celebrate the "discovery" of America or the apocalypse depending on your point of view.



Exactly, WhatInThe. Much ado about nothing. Its a minor holiday, created to pander to the Knights of Columbus many decades ago. Very few people are celebrating Columbus as a hero, or even thinking about him. I have been posting from his log book the last few days for my own amusement, but I'm sure no one else really gives a hoot. I have been around the Web on this in the last few days and people's comments on the topic are abysmally ignorant.
I really don't understand why NA's would want to change the name of the day and celebrate a date that initiated their decline. Why not set a different date to celebrate their own heritage? They could memorialize Sitting Bull or Tecumseh. 
At any rate, it means nothing to me. I get _every_ day off from work! :smug1:


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## Butterfly (Oct 9, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Doesn't matter to me... I've never gotten the day off work anyway so it passes unnoticed.



I never did, either, QS.  It's one of those "sort of" holidays.


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## WhatInThe (Oct 10, 2015)

Most holidays you have a alcohol and a toast but this one you're supposed to go out and buy a new mattress.


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## Sunny (Oct 10, 2015)

I think for many Italian-Americans it's a day of pride. For everyone else, it's pretty much ignored.


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## Underock1 (Oct 10, 2015)

Sunny said:


> I think for many Italian-Americans it's a day of pride. For everyone else, it's pretty much ignored.



I absolutely agree, Sunny. Its those pesky people that just seem to find annoyance at every turn..but if they didn't, I wouldn't have had the fun of dusting off my books on Columbus and amusing myself. 

Just one more! My wife graduated from Christopher Columbus HS. I can hear their cheer leaders now, "Go Indigenous Native American! "Give me an I.." :laugh:


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## chic (Oct 11, 2015)

Sunny said:


> I think for many Italian-Americans it's a day of pride. For everyone else, it's pretty much ignored.



It is a day of pride for Italian Americans. Thanks for pointing that out and reminding us, Sunny. :love_heart:


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## AZ Jim (Oct 11, 2015)

No mail delivery because of that Jerk, Columbus.


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## Underock1 (Oct 12, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> No mail delivery because of that Jerk, Columbus.



Depending on what's in the mail, that could be a _good _thing. :topsy_turvy:


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## jujube (Oct 12, 2015)

I think I'm going to go celebrate Columbus day at the mall.  I'll "discover" Macys and then just take whatever I want.  Think the mall cops will buy that?


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