# Mandatory Voting



## Misty (Mar 19, 2015)

[h=1]Obama: Maybe it's time for mandatory voting[/h]By Holly Yan, CNN
Updated 10:07 AM ET, Thu March 19, 2015


(CNN)The president whose major policy achievement is mandatory health insurance thinks maybe voting should be mandatory, too.


Asked  how to offset the influence of big money in politics, President Barack  Obama suggested it's time to make voting a requirement.
"Other  countries have mandatory voting," Obama said Wednesday in Cleveland,  where he spoke about the importance of middle class economics, and was  asked about the issue during a town hall.
"It  would be transformative if everybody voted -- that would counteract  money more than anything," he said, adding it was the first time he had  shared the idea publicly.

The clout of millionaires and billionaires in campaign funding has been enormous, and many claim the uber wealthy have undue leverage in politics. 

"The  people who tend not to vote are young, they're lower income, they're  skewed more heavily towards immigrant groups and minority groups," Obama  said. "There's a reason why some folks try to keep them away from the  polls."
At least 26 countries have compulsory voting, according to the Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance.  Failure to vote is punishable by a fine in countries such as Australia  and Belgium; if you fail to pay your fine in Belgium, you could go to  prison. 

Does anyone else think this is not a good idea, or is this agreeable to you?


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## QuickSilver (Mar 19, 2015)

Yes... I agree... People SHOULD be required to vote..   I have no problem with that... However, I would just be happy if voting and registering to vote were made easier, not harder..   In fact I think that people should automatically be registered to vote when they turn 18.   Oregon has a new law that automatically registers people to vote however they have the right to opt out.  




> The law dictates that once residents interact with the state DMV – whether to get a license or ID for the first time, or renew an existing one – they’ll become registered to vote if they aren’t already. The registration will be provisional for 21 days, during which time applicants will be notified of their new status and be given a chance to become affiliated with a political party or to opt-out of the voting process altogether. In essence, Oregon will now be the first state to approach voting with an “opt-out” mindset, as opposed to “opt-in.”



http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/oregons-motor-voter-law-quickly-increase-voter-registration


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## Misty (Mar 19, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yes... I agree... People SHOULD be required to vote..   I have no problem with that... However, I would just be happy if voting and registering to vote were made easier, not harder..   In fact I think that people should automatically be registered to vote when they turn 18.   Oregon has a new law that automatically registers people to vote however they have the right to opt out.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/oregons-motor-voter-law-quickly-increase-voter-registration



Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Quicksilver. 22 countries have laws  for compulsory voting and 11 of them are enforcing the laws with fines or community service. Australia  is one of the countries that enforce compulsory voting. It would be  interesting for DameWarrigal to give information and her views too.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 19, 2015)

I agree that voting should be mandatory.


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## Davey Jones (Mar 19, 2015)

Mandatory??? How are all the dead voters go to vote?

Study: 1.8 Million Dead People Still Registered To Vote : NPR


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## QuickSilver (Mar 19, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> Mandatory??? How are all the dead voters go to vote?
> 
> Study: 1.8 Million Dead People Still Registered To Vote : NPR



Of those 1.8 million still on voter lists... exactly how many of them have cast ballots?


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## Josiah (Mar 19, 2015)

My views on this subject might be quite different if I were a Republican, but since I'm not I'll offer a tepid endorsement. Being forced to vote might prompt some non-politicals to pay a little attention. Some how I think a new ya' gotta vote law would be hard to pass and if passed would be challenged up to SCOTUS and found to be unconstitutional.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 19, 2015)

That's why I'm more in favor of making it easier to register and vote rather than making it mandatory.


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## Misty (Mar 19, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I agree that voting should be mandatory.


Thanks for your response, Ameriscot.  I was surprised to read that other countries have mandatory voting. I learned something new. Also learned that over 100 countries require compulsary Id cards, even for some as young as 2.


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## Misty (Mar 19, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> Mandatory??? How are all the dead voters go to vote?
> 
> Study: 1.8 Million Dead People Still Registered To Vote : NPR



Good question on how are all the dead voters going to vote, Davey, tho where there's a will there's a way, at least in Chicago. 
Interesting article.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 19, 2015)

Misty said:


> Thanks for your response, Ameriscot.  I was surprised to read that other countries have mandatory voting. I learned something new. Also learned that over 100 countries require compulsary Id cards, even for some as young as 2.



We don't have it in the UK and ID cards were discussed but everyone objected.


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## oakapple (Mar 19, 2015)

I don't agree that voting should be mandatory, I think there are enough things forced on us by government.We have the right to vote, and that's enough. it is not mandatory here, and neither do we carry ID cards, although I am sure the powers that be would like us to.The mere thought of some over zealous official demanding 'papers!' Is Orwellian and nightmarish.If some sorts of people are too idle to go and vote then they don't have a say in who gets in at the next election. maybe they don't wish to vote for other reasons too, and that is up to them.


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## Warrigal (Mar 19, 2015)

Misty said:


> Thanks for your response, Ameriscot.  I was surprised to read that other countries have mandatory voting. I learned something new. Also learned that over 100 countries require compulsary Id cards, even for some as young as 2.



Yes. Australia is one of those countries. From the Australian Electoral Commission website:



> *History of compulsory voting in Australia*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It works this way - when you turn 18 or otherwise become eligible to vote, you go down to the local electoral office and fill in a card. You are then put on the electoral roll and whenever you change your address you need to notify the office to avoid being removed from the roll. Periodically they do doorknock to check the validity of the roll. Whenever the writs for an election are called, people are reminded to update their enrolment to make sure they will not be disenfranchised. When a death is registered with Births, Deaths and Marriages the name is automatically removed, so no dead people voting.

The same roll is used for all elections - federal, state and local.

There are several ways that you can vote


Turn up to the local voting location, usually a school hall on election day (which is always a Saturday).
Ask for an absentee voting form if out of your own electorate on voting day
Arrange for a postal vote if you cannot attend on the day due to work or other restrictions like getting married, having a baby etc
Vote early (in the week before) at predetermined polling places

All we have to do is turn up, have a line ruled through our name on the print out of the roll and we are handed the voting papers. We then go to a booth and mark the papers before placing them in the boxes. We don't have to vote at all if we don't want to but if we don't turn up, we will get a 'Please explain' letter. Persistent non voting without a valid reason will result in a fine.

We don't find it an onerous duty. There are plenty of polling places and queues aren't a problem. The method of voting is reasonably uniform all across the country and because the votes are on paper recounts are easy to achieve when necessary. Scrutineers from the major parties observe the count to make sure it is properly done.

Getting most Americans to consider changing their system has  a success probability somewhere between zero and none IMO. Uniformity across the whole nation seems to be anathema to most US citizens, even though it is an efficient way of doing some things.


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## Lon (Mar 19, 2015)

I could support Mandatory Voting only for those that could prove that they filed a previous year Tax Return


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## Warrigal (Mar 19, 2015)

Too bad about stay-at-home mothers and old aged pensioners then. Money isn't the only value that should determine voting eligibility.


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## Lon (Mar 19, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Too bad about stay-at-home mothers and old aged pensioners then. Money isn't the only value that should determine voting eligibility.



Filing a tax return isn't about money, it's about showing who is paying taxes, if any. If some one is working at any thing and earning money, they are required to file a tax return.


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## Warrigal (Mar 19, 2015)

And voting is about citizenship, not taxes.

I don't pay income tax any more although I do pay indirect tax every time I spend a dollar in a shop. Some of my student grandchildren don't pay income tax because although they work part time, their income does not reach the taxable level. I no longer need to file a tax return but I'm not sure about the grandkids. They probably do if only to receive a tax return.

There are other examples of people who wouldn't earn enough to pay income tax - full time carers of their disabled children, for example. Are they not citizens doing something valuable for the community? Should they not also have the right to vote?


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## Bee (Mar 19, 2015)

oakapple said:


> I don't agree that voting should be mandatory, I think there are enough things forced on us by government.We have the right to vote, and that's enough. it is not mandatory here, and neither do we carry ID cards, although I am sure the powers that be would like us to.The mere thought of some over zealous official demanding 'papers!' Is Orwellian and nightmarish.If some sorts of people are too idle to go and vote then they don't have a say in who gets in at the next election. maybe they don't wish to vote for other reasons too, and that is up to them.



Agree with everything you say Oakapple.


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## Lon (Mar 19, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> And voting is about citizenship, not taxes.
> 
> I don't pay income tax any more although I do pay indirect tax every time I spend a dollar in a shop. Some of my student grandchildren don't pay income tax because although they work part time, their income does not reach the taxable level. I no longer need to file a tax return but I'm not sure about the grandkids. They probably do if only to receive a tax return.
> 
> There are other examples of people who wouldn't earn enough to pay income tax - full time carers of their disabled children, for example. Are they not citizens doing something valuable for the community? Should they not also have the right to vote?



Voters should be citizens of course (in any country). I am afraid that their are some politicos in the Obama Administration that would just require RESIDENCY as a requirement.


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## Warrigal (Mar 19, 2015)

That doesn't happen over here. Permanent residents do not get to vote. Naturalised immigrants can/must vote. It is one of the duties that come with naturalisation.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 19, 2015)

Lon said:


> Voters should be citizens of course (in any country). I am afraid that their are some politicos in the Obama Administration that would just require RESIDENCY as a requirement.



I don't believe this to be true... Are you just speculating?.. or do you have a link to back that charge up.


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## Jackie22 (Mar 19, 2015)

I think mandatory voting would be a good thing, it would correct many of the things that are wrong with our voting system and eliminate the voter suppression that is going on. There are too many that think there is no use in voting and stay at home, this way they'd become involved and maybe pay better attention to the candidates and what they really stand for.

As for the income tax return........there are many many poor and seniors that do not have to file, it would be wrong to deny their voting privileges, just because they do not file a return does not mean that the do not pay taxes.


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## Butterfly (Mar 19, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> That's why I'm more in favor of making it easier to register and vote rather than making it mandatory.



I agree.   Here, they started early voting several years ago, where the have places open before voting day where a person could go vote.  This was a great help to me when I was still working, because it was inevitably a hassle to get out and get to the polls on time.  I could never manage it at lunch because the lines were long.  Now, I just go on a Saturday or something and vote.

I think trying to enforce mandatory voting would just increase costs to the taxpayers by creating a new bureaucracy to enforce and figure out who voted and who didn't.


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## Butterfly (Mar 19, 2015)

Lon said:


> I could support Mandatory Voting only for those that could prove that they filed a previous year Tax Return



So that would disenfranchise those (like many elderly) who don't have to file a tax return because their income is too little to require filing one.  My sister hasn't filed a tax return in years for that reason, but she certainly still has the right to vote.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 19, 2015)

As a rule I dislike mandatory _anything_ ...


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## Warrigal (Mar 20, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> As a rule I dislike mandatory _anything_ ...


 That's why it won't work in the US. You'd be better off organising some uniformity in the method of registration and voting. Having each state decide how it will organise the presidential and federal elections is just weird IMO. Or have I got that wrong?

By the way, we call it compulsory voting. Mandatory is too wishy washy.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 20, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> That's why it won't work in the US. You'd be better off organising some uniformity in the method of registration and voting. Having each state decide how it will organise the presidential and federal elections is just weird IMO. Or have I got that wrong?
> 
> By the way, we call it compulsory voting. Mandatory is too wishy washy.



I agree..   Voting.. particularly in Federal elections should be uniform throughout all 50 states.  States can do what they want in local elections.


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 20, 2015)

We shouldn't use a furrin way of doing our voting thingy...


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

Lon said:


> Filing a tax return isn't about money, it's about showing who is paying taxes, if any. If some one is working at any thing and earning money, they are required to file a tax return.



If you make under a certain amount though you don't even have to file.  So that leaves out lots of poor people.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

Lon said:


> Voters should be citizens of course (in any country). I am afraid that their are some politicos in the Obama Administration that would just require RESIDENCY as a requirement.



No, residency will never be a requirement because I am not a resident but as a US citizen I am entitled to vote, as are the 7+ million American expats who live abroad.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> We shouldn't use a furrin way of doing our voting thingy...



Now Ralphy, you not a xenophobe are you?


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## QuickSilver (Mar 20, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> If you make under a certain amount though you don't even have to file.  So that leaves out lots of poor people.



Yes.... BUT don't forget.. so many poor people tend to vote for Democrats..   :stupid:


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> That doesn't happen over here. Permanent residents do not get to vote. Naturalised immigrants can/must vote. It is one of the duties that come with naturalisation.



MY BIL has lived in Australia since the 70's and he's not a citizen.  But he says he's required to vote.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yes.... BUT don't forget.. so many poor people tend to vote for Democrats..   :stupid:



Yup!  Gotta keep them from voting, right?  

I've read that the majority of expats are also Democrats.


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 20, 2015)

Furriners need to learn from us, and we don't need no suggestions from them on how we do things cause we always do things right...


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Furriners need to learn from us, and we don't need no suggestions from them on how we do things cause we always do things right...



Unfortunately, there are far too many Americans who think and say that which has earned them the reputation as arrogant people.  Fuel for anti-Americanism.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 20, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Unfortunately, there are far too many Americans who think and say that which has earned them the reputation as arrogant people.  Fuel for anti-Americanism.



But if you ARE always right and say so, it isn't arrogance - it's just stating a fact. 

I have that problem all the time.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 20, 2015)

Yeah..... and that's why we are so loved and revered throughout the world..


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## SifuPhil (Mar 20, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yeah..... and that's why we are so loved and revered throughout the world..



Is it better for a tyrant to be loved or to be feared?


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## QuickSilver (Mar 20, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Yup!  Gotta keep them from voting, right?
> 
> I've read that the majority of expats are also Democrats.



Yeah... but why stop there... let's stop all minorities from voting too..  or at least make is so difficult that they give up trying.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> But if you ARE always right and say so, it isn't arrogance - it's just stating a fact.
> 
> I have that problem all the time.



Oh, please, I get enough of that from my brother.  His latest one is since Americans say Scotch-Irish, it's correct.  Doesn't matter that the term was totally invented by Americans.  The Scots have not been called Scotch for a couple of hundred years.  Scotch is a drink and only a drink.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yeah..... and that's why we are so loved and revered throughout the world..



Sometimes I wish I could do a Scottish accent!  Although I haven't really experienced anti-Americanism here. Almost always people will ask if I'm Canadian first as they say some Canadian's get mad if you ask them if they are American.


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 20, 2015)

Maybe we'll put Scotland on our short list for invasion and show them who is boss...


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Maybe we'll put Scotland on our short list for invasion and show them who is boss...




Aye, you do that.  layful:  Very near my house there are lots of Trident missiles.  Oh, and in town there are quite a lot of former American navy guys who were stationed here in the 1960's to early 1990's.  You going to bomb your own?


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 20, 2015)

Collateral damage of any kind never bothers us...


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Collateral damage of any kind never bothers us...



Yes, that's been obvious.

Ralphy, go to your room.  You're grounded for trying to stir up trouble.  :tapfoot:


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## QuickSilver (Mar 20, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Yes, that's been obvious.
> 
> Ralphy, go to your room.  You're grounded for trying to stir up trouble.  :tapfoot:


 
For sure.... He's a :stirthepot:  this morning.... more so than usual!  lol!


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## DoItMyself (Mar 20, 2015)

oakapple said:


> I don't agree that voting should be mandatory, I think there are enough things forced on us by government.We have the right to vote, and that's enough. it is not mandatory here, and neither do we carry ID cards, although I am sure the powers that be would like us to.The mere thought of some over zealous official demanding 'papers!' Is Orwellian and nightmarish.If some sorts of people are too idle to go and vote then they don't have a say in who gets in at the next election. maybe they don't wish to vote for other reasons too, and that is up to them.



Agreed.
Voting should be extremely accessible to anyone who is eligible to vote.  However, I don't think forcing voting down anyone's throat with another government mandate is a good idea-if someone isn't interested in voting chances are they won't make an informed decision anyway.  I'd prefer that people who actually care enough to vote are the ones that do the voting.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> For sure.... He's a :stirthepot:  this morning.... more so than usual!  lol!



Maybe he's bored today.  I'm  going along with it because I'm putting off doing my dumbbell workout.


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 20, 2015)

Just telling it like it is and should be told...


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## Warrigal (Mar 20, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> MY BIL has lived in Australia since the 70's and he's not a citizen.  But he says he's required to vote.



Being British used to be sufficient to allow you to vote in Australia. Then the rules were changed but those already on the rolls were not disenfranchised.



> The only non-Australian citizens who are eligible to vote are British subjects who were on the Commonwealth electoral roll immediately before 26 January 1984, at which time the eligibility requirements were altered.


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## SifuPhil (Mar 20, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> ... Scotch is a drink and only a drink.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 20, 2015)




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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> View attachment 16135
> 
> 
> View attachment 16137
> ...




However, we don't have any of those brand name products in Scotland.  If I said Scotch tape, no one would understand. They say Cellotape.  There are, however, Scotch eggs.  But people are not referred to as Scotch.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


>



Okay, you got me with the Scotch broth.  But tartans and not called Scotch anything.

It's the *single word Scotch* that only refers to a drink.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 20, 2015)

But they wear Scotch Plaid?  Don't they?

Sorry we were typing at the same time.. so no scotch plaid


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## Ameriscot (Mar 20, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> But they wear Scotch Plaid?  Don't they?
> 
> Sorry we were typing at the same time.. so no scotch plaid



They wear tartan.  

Anyway, the word Scotch used alone is only that lovely golden drink.


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## oakapple (Mar 20, 2015)

Ralphy is just being ironic, don't take him at his word.
Ameriscot is right, scotch is just whisky made in Scotland. we say tartan, or plaid, but people are called Scots.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 20, 2015)

I know that people from Scotland are called Scots..  But I really did think that when referring to something as being Scottish... the adjective was Scotch.  Learn something new every day


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## Ameriscot (Mar 21, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I know that people from Scotland are called Scots..  But I really did think that when referring to something as being Scottish... the adjective was Scotch.  Learn something new every day



My husband claims his grandfather used the term Scotch, but I've never heard anyone say it nowadays although I did hear a Scot get very annoyed when an English person called them one. 

Don't know why it changed but Scotch was used in the 18th century. 

I'm currently in an email discussion of ancestors and history with my brother and sister and he insists on saying Scotch-Irish just to annoy me.


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