# How war and the jungle changed me



## squatting dog (Dec 2, 2022)

deleted. probably too graphic.


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## Gary O' (Dec 2, 2022)

deleted


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## Gary O' (Dec 2, 2022)

deleted


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## Old_Dame (Dec 3, 2022)

@squatting dog 


I’m deeply saddened by the savagery of war forced upon you at such a tender age.  

Yet, I find you inspiring; despite your tremendous pain and dark suffering, you maintained your essence of self-renewal, your impeccable eye for beauty, style, and self-preservation… exquisite qualities illustrated in the many generous photos shared.  

Warmest blessings to you, always.


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## Chet (Dec 3, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> deleted. probably too graphic.


Re-think it and try again.


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## Shalimar (Dec 3, 2022)

*This is the military vet thread. Perfect place to share your experience SD, graphic or otherwise.*


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## Packerjohn (Dec 3, 2022)

I have never been in the services nor have I ever been in a war.  However, it seems to me that many so called "war movies" don't really tell it is.  If you glorify war, I tend to think of it as propaganda.  I remember reading in some history book about World War I.  Canada was part of the British Empire.  When Britain went to war, Canada automatic entered the war too.

A lot of farm boys signed up to go overseas.  To them, it was the adventure of a lifetime.  Many never came back and many of those that did refused to talk about what happened over there and what they saw.


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## squatting dog (Dec 3, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I have never been in the services nor have I ever been in a war.  However, it seems to me that many so called "war movies" don't really tell it is.  If you glorify war, I tend to think of it as propaganda.  I remember reading in some history book about World War I.  Canada was part of the British Empire.  When Britain went to war, Canada automatic entered the war too.
> 
> A lot of farm boys signed up to go overseas.  To them, it was the adventure of a lifetime.  Many never came back and many of those that did refused to talk about what happened over there and what they saw.


Yeah, there isn't any "war movie" that hits the mark. At least not until they perfect smell-a-vision. Burnt or rotting corpse's can't be depicted. I took down the post because I wasn't sure it was appropriate, but, I just wanted to vent a little. Sometimes it's better to unload rather than keep it bottled up.


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## squatting dog (Dec 3, 2022)

Old_Dame said:


> @squatting dog
> 
> 
> I’m deeply saddened by the savagery of war forced upon you at such a tender age.
> ...


Thank you for those kind words. Wish I could take all the credit, but, most of it belongs to a strong, loving and understanding wife. I already know that without her in my life, I'd be 6 feet under by now.


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## Shalimar (Dec 3, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Thank you for those kind words. Wish I could take all the credit, but, most of it belongs to a strong, loving and understanding wife. I already know that without her in my life, I'd be 6 feet under by now.


We who love and honour your spirit are so very grateful you remain here. You continue to teach us so much about courage, compassion, and endurance. Some of the strongest characters are full of scars.  Privileged to know you.


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## squatting dog (Dec 3, 2022)

Shalimar said:


> We who love and honour your spirit are so very grateful you remain here. You continue to teach us so much about courage, compassion, and endurance. Some of the strongest characters are full of scars.  Privileged to know you.


Thank you again. Not sure about the courage thing though.


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## Lawrence (Dec 3, 2022)

How the Vietnam War changed me was coming the realization of how men would find out that the values and principles the learned as a child were of no value at all in a war situation. Learning how primeval instinct and self-preservation can take over a man and lead him to do horrendous acts to the enemy and to fellow soldiers that got in his way. Seeing fellow soldiers committing war crimes and anti-religious behaviors. The frenzy that would follow when other soldiers' primeval instincts would kick in and how things become tremendously evil with fellow soldiers following in with similar behaviors. The young man that went into the war situation nor realizing how evil war is and finding out how easy it was that he was capable of doing tremendously primeval evil things to fellow human beings, then when the war is over for him, he goes home and tries to come to terms with things that he did.  Then telling fellow citizens about what he had been through and the fellow citizens not believing him and thinking he is a liar for they cannot comprehend that such things are done in a war.


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## Shalimar (Dec 3, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Thank you again. Not sure about the courage thing though.
> 
> 
> View attachment 253724


You are welcome, I am very sure about your courage. You are still here, still kind, never giving up. You live with pain that would destroy many, memories that could steal your humanity, but you remain a loving being. How is that anything but courage? You are an inspiration, a glowing testament to the

enduring strength of the human spirit, I salute you, my friend. Yikes, I am all choked up. Out of hell, you give beautiful gifts to others.


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## Pepper (Dec 4, 2022)

You can take a boy out of NYC, but you can't take NYC out of the boy.  Love you (((dog)))


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## JustDave (Dec 4, 2022)

A friend of mine opened up about his experiences in Vietnam, the kinds of things I had already knew must have happened, and the experiences that vets don't tell their friends and family about.  I don't think I can even imagine anything more inhuman (or maybe just human) than the actual experiences.

My brother-in-law, Ron, captain of the high school basketball team and popular around everyone, came back from Nam a sullen emotional vegetable.  That's the way he was when I first met him.  He never said a word about any of his experiences to his family or me, and he was like that for years.  My ex told me the only hint he ever gave about his experiences was at a family gathering when one of his brothers from the Navy was bragging about his war experiences, and Ron emerged from his constant and apparent inner struggles and told his brother he didn't know what the F___ war was even like.  And then one day he just snapped out of it, and he was his old self again.

War is cruel, and it can't be sanitized.  It changes many people, mostly the boots on the ground, I think.  We can talk about glory and honor as a way of ignoring the most hideous aspects as we can watch the columns of smoke and distant explosions on CNN from our lounge chairs and think it's great to be kicking ass.  But if they showed it all on CNN, we would probably stop invading other countries so often.


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## Alligatorob (Dec 4, 2022)

@squatting dog I appreciate your posts and others like them.

I have to admit they can make me feel a bit guilty that I did not go.  Not that I believed in the war, just that so many of my age did, but not me.  I wasn't a draft dodger, got a very high number.  I could have enlisted, actually considered it when I graduated from High School, but didn't.


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## Pepper (Dec 4, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> @squatting dog I appreciate your posts and others like them.
> 
> I have to admit they can make me feel a bit guilty that I did not go.  Not that I believed in the war, just that so many of my age did, but not me.  I wasn't a draft dodger, got a very high number.  I could have enlisted, actually considered it when I graduated from High School, but didn't.


Men are such idiots.  That's why we have war.  At the time you are mentioning I was in Berlin with my Scottish boyfriend who was considering enlisting in US Army to "experience" war, as all Men should, right?  Wrong, Very Very Wrong.

Anatomy can be destiny, I truly believe that.


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## Alligatorob (Dec 4, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I was in Berlin with my Scottish boyfriend who was considering enlisting in US Army to "experience" war, as all Men should, right? Wrong, Very Very Wrong.


Not the way I feel now, or as I recall felt then.  

What bothered me was seeing my friends and relatives risking life and limb and me not.  I have, and never recall ever having, any desire to experience war.  To the contrary, I hope no one ever does...


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## squatting dog (Dec 4, 2022)

Pepper said:


> You can take a boy out of NYC, but you can't take NYC out of the boy.  Love you (((dog)))


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## squatting dog (Dec 4, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> @squatting dog I appreciate your posts and others like them.
> 
> I have to admit they can make me feel a bit guilty that I did not go.  Not that I believed in the war, just that so many of my age did, but not me.  I wasn't a draft dodger, got a very high number.  I could have enlisted, actually considered it when I graduated from High School, but didn't.


Don't feel guilty. Be glad you never had to face this life altering experience. We are all dupes when it comes to war.


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## Lewkat (Dec 4, 2022)

War is never the answer to problems, but, I do believe WWII came closest to being a "Just War."  The pervasive evil behind the perpetrators was totally unbelievable.  That some of that has spilled over into subsequent conflicts is disheartening, indeed.


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## ElCastor (Dec 4, 2022)

Here I was, graduated high school, then a 4 yr bachelors degree in economics, commuting from home on a motor scooter, next OCS, and a year later I’m supervising 60 men (some twice my age) at the height of the Vietnam War, in charge of the engine rooms on an aircraft carrier In the South China Sea. Huh?

Five years later I‘m out, back in the states, found out what a stink of a war I had been participating in, and resigned my Reserve commission.


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