# OK, Who Decides What Is or Isn't A Reputable Site for Covid Information.



## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

Having just read the Disclaimer and Remindcer posted by Matrix, I am wondering about any future participation here.  First, the CDC, as mentioned by Matrix is NOT a reliable source of information.  It is politically driven and motivated and the extent to which they have changed their counting rules should have been a clue to anyone paying attention.  Fauci certainly isn't a reputable source of information given is continual flip-flopping, spinning and lying.  Privately owned sites certain have the right to impose censorship, just as we have the right to censor them in return with our participation.  This post may get me banned but it may also tell me the answer to my question.


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## Alligatorob (Aug 5, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> it should also tell me the answer to my question


Not likely, there is no simple answer to your question.

I tend to rely more on sites that post data than opinions or interpretations alone.  I think the CDC data is useful, but some of their statements are less so.  And even sites that present data can be suspect.  I try to use a combination of common sense and reliance on real data to the extent I can find it...  I do my best to ignore what seems to me to be pure political spin and sort through the rest.


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Not likely, there is no simple answer to your question.
> 
> I tend to rely more on sites that post data than opinions or interpretations alone.  I think the CDC data is useful, but some of their statements are less so.  And even sites that present data can be suspect.  I try to use a combination of common sense and reliance on real data to the extent I can find it...  I do my best to ignore what seems to me to be pure political spin and sort through the rest.


I find the CDC data about as useful as tits on a bull.  If you want real data, you have to dig for it.  To that end here are some sources from which you can load up your spreadsheet and search for truth (or spin the data to whatever narrative you wish).  

Places to mine for U.S; data.

Alabama: Department of Public Health
Alaska: Department of Health and Social Services
Arizona: Department of Health Services
Arkansas: Department of Health
California: Department of Publich Health
Mariposa County
Alameda County
Fresno County
Humboldt County
Imperial County
Los Angeles County
Madera County
Marin County
Mendocino County
Orange County
Placer County
Riverside County
Sacramento County
San Benito County
San Bernardino County
San Diego County
San Francisco
San Joaquin County
San Mateo County
Santa Clara County
Santa Cruz County
Shasta County
Solano County
Sonoma County
Stanislaus County
Ventura County
Yolo County

Colorado: Department of Public Health and Environment
Connecticut: Department of Public Health
Delaware: Emergency Management Agency
District of Columbia: Government of The District of Columbia
Florida: Department of Health
Georgia: Department of Public Health
Gaum: Department of Public Health and Social Services
Hawaii: Department of Health
Idaho: State Government
Illinois: Department of Public Health
Indiana: Department of Health
Iowa: State Government
Kansas: Department Of Health And Environment
Douglas County
Finney County
Riley County
Reno County

Kentucky: Department of Public Health
Louisiana: Department of Health
Maine: Department of Health and Human Services
Maryland: Department of Health
Massachusetts: Department of Public Health
Michigan: Michigan.gov
Minnesota: Department of Health
Mississippi: Department of Health
Missouri: Department of Health
Nodaway County
St. Louis City
St. Louis County

Montana: Department of Public Health and Human Services
Nebraska
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Nevada: Department of Health and Human Services
Reno County Health Department

New Hampshire: Department of Health and Human Services
New Jersey: Department of Health
New Mexico: Department of Health
New York: State Department of Health
New York City Health Department
NYC Department of Health and Mental Hygiene & Github Repo

North Carolina
City of Greenville GIS

North Dakota: Department of Health
Northern Mariana Islands: CNMI Department of Public Health
Ohio: Department of Health
Oklahoma: Department of Health
Oregon: Health Authority
Pennsylvania: Department of Health
Philadelphia
Lancaster County
Chester County

Puerto Rico: Departamento de Salud
Rhode Island: Department of Health
South Carolina: Department of Health and Environmental Control
South Dakota: Department of Health
Tennessee: Department of Health
Texas: Department of State Health Services
Amarillo County
Brazoria County
Brazos County
Cameron County
Collin County
Corpus Christi
Dallas County
Denton County
Ector County
City of El Paso
Fayette County
Fort Bend County
Galveston County Health District
Harris County
Hays County
Hidalgo County
Laredo
Midland County
Mount Pleasant
Montgomery County
San Angelo 1
San Angelo 2
San Antonio
Tarrant County
Travis County
Williamson County

Utah: Department of Health
Vermont: Department of Health
Virgin Islands: Department of Health and COVID-19 Report
Virginia: Department of Health
Washington: Department of Health
West Virginia: Department of Health & Human Resources
Wisconsin: Department of Health Services
Wyoming: Department of Health
Places to mine for international data:

Albania:
National Agency for Information Society: https://coronavirus.al/statistika/

Australia:
Government Department of Health: https://www.health.gov.au/news/coronavirus-update-at-a-glance
COVID Live: https://www.covidlive.com.au/

Azerbaijan:
Azerbaijan Operational Headquarters under the Cabinet of Ministers: https://koronavirusinfo.az/az

Belgium:
Sciensano: https://datastudio.google.com/embed/reporting/c14a5cfc-cab7-4812-848c-0369173148ab/page/giyUB

Brazil:
Ministry of Health: https://covid.saude.gov.br/
Federal University of Viçosa - Brazil: https://github.com/wcota/covid19br (Data described in DOI: 10.1590/SciELOPreprints.362)

Burma (Myanmar):
Myanmar Ministry of Health and Sports: https://doph.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/f8fb4ccc3d2d42c7ab0590dbb3fc26b8

Canada:
Government of Alberta: https://www.alberta.ca/covid-19-alberta-data.aspx
Government of British Columbia Centre for Disease Control: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/a6f23959a8b14bfa989e3cda29297ded
Government of Canada: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/coronavirus.html
Government of Manitoba: https://www.gov.mb.ca/covid19/updates/cases.html
Government of New Brunswick: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/8eeb9a2052d641c996dba5de8f25a8aa
Government of Newfoundland and Labrador: https://covid-19-newfoundland-and-labrador-gnl.hub.arcgis.com/
Government of Northwest Territories: https://www.gov.nt.ca/covid-19/
Government of Nova Scotia: https://novascotia.ca/coronavirus/data/
Government of Ontario: https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data
City of Toronto: https://www.toronto.ca/home/covid-1...nto-news/covid-19-status-of-cases-in-toronto/
Eastern Ontario Health Unit: https://eohu.ca/en/covid/covid-19-status-update-for-eohu-region
Grey Bruce Health Unit: https://www.publichealthgreybruce.on.ca/
Halton Region: https://www.halton.ca/For-Residents...e-Disease/Diseases-Infections/New-Coronavirus
Ottawa Public Health: https://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/reports-research-and-statistics/daily-covid19-dashboard.aspx
Region of Peel: https://peelregion.ca/coronavirus/case-status/
Windsor-Essex County Health Unit: https://www.wechu.org/cv/local-updates
York Region: https://www.york.ca/wps/portal/york...cA!!/dz/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/#.X8UQBqpKi3U

Government of Prince Edward Island: https://www.princeedwardisland.ca/en/information/health-and-wellness/pei-covid-19-case-data
Government of Quebec: https://www.quebec.ca/en/health/health-issues/a-z/2019-coronavirus/situation-coronavirus-in-quebec/
Government of Saskatchewan: https://dashboard.saskatchewan.ca/health-wellness
Government of Yukon: https://yukon.ca/en/case-counts-covid-19
Nunavut Department of Health: https://www.gov.nu.ca/health/information/covid-19-novel-coronavirus

Chile:
Ministry of Health: https://www.minsal.cl/nuevo-coronavirus-2019-ncov/casos-confirmados-en-chile-covid-19/
Ministry of Communications: https://www.gob.cl/coronavirus/cifrasoficiales/

China:
National Health Commission of the People’s Republic of China (NHC): http://www.nhc.gov.cn/xcs/yqtb/list_gzbd.shtml
China CDC (CCDC): http://weekly.chinacdc.cn/news/TrackingtheEpidemic.htm

Colombia:
National Institute of Health: http://www.ins.gov.co/Noticias/Paginas/Coronavirus.aspx

Czech Republic (Czechia):
National Health Information System, Regional Hygiene Stations, Ministry of Health of the Czech Republic: https://onemocneni-aktualne.mzcr.cz/covid-19

Denmark:
Statens Serum Institute: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/aa41b29149f24e20a4007a0c4e13db1d

El Salvador:
Government of El Salvador: https://covid19.gob.sv/

Finland:
THL/National Infectious Disease Register: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/92e9bb33fac744c9a084381fc35aa3c7

France:
French Ministry of Solidarity and Health and Public Health Dashboard: https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/
French Ministry of Solidarity and Health and Public Health Data: https://www.data.gouv.fr/en/dataset...epidemie-de-covid-19-en-france-vue-densemble/
OpenCOVID19: https://github.com/opencovid19-fr

Germany:
Berliner Morgenpost: https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/corona-virus-karte-infektionen-deutschland-weltweit/

Guatemala:
Minesterio de Salud Publica Y Asistencia Social: https://tablerocovid.mspas.gob.gt/

Honduras:
Despacho de Comunicaciones y Estrategia Presidencial: https://covid19honduras.org/

Hong Kong:
The Government of The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region: https://www.chp.gov.hk/en/features/102465.html

Hungary:
Government of Hungary: https://koronavirus.gov.hu/

Iceland:
Directorate of Health and Department of Civil Protection and Emergency Management: https://www.covid.is/data

India:
Government of India: https://www.mygov.in/covid-19

Indonesia:
National Board for Disaster Management: https://covid19.go.id/peta-sebaran

Ireland:
Government of Ireland: https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

Israel:
Ministry of Health Website: https://govextra.gov.il/ministry-of-health/corona/corona-virus/
Ministry of Health Dashboard: https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

Italy:
Civil Protection Department: https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/tree/master/
Ministry of Health: http://www.salute.gov.it/nuovocoronavirus

Jamaica:
Ministry of Health & Wellness: https://www.moh.gov.jm

Japan:
COVID19Japan: https://covid19japan.com/#all-prefectures
NHK: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/special/coronavirus/data/

Jordan:
Ministry of Health: https://corona.moh.gov.jo/en

Kazakhstan:
Kazinform: https://www.coronavirus2020.kz/

Kosovo:
National Institute of Health of Kosovo Dashboard: https://corona-ks.info/?lang=en
National Institute of Health of Kosovo JSON: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bgeVam/Kosovo-Coronatracker-Data/master/data.json
National Institute of Health of Kosovo Data Studio Dashboard: https://datastudio.google.com/embed/reporting/2e546d77-8f7b-4c35-8502-38533aa0e9e8/page/MT0qB

Lebanon
Lebanese Ministry Of Information: https://corona.ministryinfo.gov.lb/

Lithuania:
Government of Lithuania: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/cab84dcfe0464c2a8050a78f817924ca

Luxembourg:
Government of Luxembourg: https://data.public.lu/fr/datasets/covid-19-rapports-journaliers/#_

Macau:
Health Services of the Government of the Macau Special Administrative Region: https://www.ssm.gov.mo/portal/

Mexico:
Government of Mexico: https://datos.covid-19.conacyt.mx/#DOView

Malaysia
Ministry of Health: https://covid-19.moh.gov.my/
Official data on the COVID-19 epidemic in Malaysia. Powered by CPRC, CPRC Hospital System, MKAK, and MySejahtera: https://github.com/MoH-Malaysia/covid19-public

Netherlands:
National Institute for Health and Environment: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/ea064047519040469acb8da05c0f100d

New Zealand:
Ministry of Health: https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work...19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases

Palau:
http://www.palauhealth.org/2019nCoV_SitRep/MOH-COVID-19 Situation Report.pdf

Pakistan:
Government of Pakistan: http://covid.gov.pk/stats/pakistan

Peru:
National Police of Peru (PNP) - Directorate of Intelligence (DIRIN): https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f90a7a87af2548699d6e7bb72f5547c2
Ministry of Health Dashboard: https://covid19.minsa.gob.pe/sala_situacional.asp
Ministry of Health Press Releases: https://www.gob.pe/busquedas?categoria[]=6-salud&contenido[]=noticias&institucion[]=minsa&sheet=1&sort_by=recent&tipo_noticia[]=3-comunicado

Philippines:
Republic of Philippines Department of Health: https://doh.gov.ph/covid19tracker

Poland:
Service of the Republic of Poland: https://www.gov.pl/web/koronawirus/wykaz-zarazen-koronawirusem-sars-cov-2

Portugal:
General Directorate of Health: https://esriportugal.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/acf023da9a0b4f9dbb2332c13f635829

Romania:
Government of Romania: https://datelazi.ro/

Russia:
Government of The Russian Federation: https://xn--80aesfpebagmfblc0a.xn--p1ai/information/

Saudi Arabia:
Saudi Arabia Ministry of Health: https://covid19.moh.gov.sa/

Serbia:
Ministry of Health of the Republic of Serbia: https://covid19.rs/homepage-english/

Singapore:
Singapore Ministry of Health: https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19

Slovakia:
Ministry of Investment, Regional Development and Information: https://korona.gov.sk/

South Africa:
South Africa Department of Health: https://sacoronavirus.co.za/

Spain:
RTVE: https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20200514/mapa-del-coronavirus-espana/2004681.shtml

Sweden:
The Swedish Public Health Agency: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

Switzerland:
Federal Office Of Public Health: https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/hom...-cov/situation-schweiz-und-international.html
Open Government Data Reported By The Swiss Cantons: https://github.com/openZH/covid_19

Taiwan:
CDC: https://sites.google.com/cdc.gov.tw/2019ncov/taiwan?authuser=0

Thailand:
Ministry of Public Health, Department of Disease Control Dashboard: https://ddc.moph.go.th/viralpneumonia/eng/index.php
Ministry of Public Health, Department of Disease Control Situational Reports: https://covid19.ddc.moph.go.th/en

Turkey:
Republic of Turkey Ministry of Health: https://covid19.saglik.gov.tr/EN-69532/general-coronavirus-table.html

Ukraine:
Office of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine: https://covid19.rnbo.gov.ua/

United Arab Emirates:
The Supreme Council For National Security, National Emergency Crisis and Disasters Management Authority: https://covid19.ncema.gov.ae/en

United Kingdom
Government of the United Kingdom: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=nations&map=rate
Scottish Government: https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-trends-in-daily-data/

This is what freedom of information is all about and your going to have to dig for it, not being told by some admin that political pablum from places like the CDC is all that's allowed.


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## WhatInThe (Aug 5, 2021)

Who checks the fact checkers? 

Who does have the final or last say actually because 'information' seems to change, develop or be revealed with regularity


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> Who checks the fact checkers?
> 
> Who does have the final or last say actually because 'information' seems to change, develop or be revealed with regularity


In the case of this and other sites, it's the owners, most of whom have their own agendas.  You do need to be aware that some forums can be "shadow sites"  for some hidden organization with different role (i.e., collect information) or agenda.  Limiting info sources is a clue.


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## John cycling (Aug 5, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> Who checks the fact checkers?
> Who does have the final or last say actually because 'information' seems to change, develop or be revealed with regularity



The head "fact checkers" have been shown to be Vaccination companies executives.
Thus, the fact checking is a profit driven, political organization, NOT one based on truth, science, nor health concerns.

The CDC and WHO were also formed and are controlled by those profit driven organizations.
The "reminder" message is thus also a political statement, not one based on truth, science nor health concerns.


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

John cycling said:


> The head "fact checkers" have been shown to be Vaccination companies executives.
> Thus, the fact checking is a profit driven, political organization, NOT one based on truth, science, nor health concerns.
> 
> The CDC and WHO were also formed and are controlled by those profit driven organizations.
> The "reminder" message is thus also a poltical statement, not one based on truth, science nor health concerns.


One only needs to look at who (no pun intended) is funding the CDC foundation, which does have a long reach into a lot of things.


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## John cycling (Aug 5, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> I think the CDC data is useful, but some of their statements are less so.



When an organization constantly flip flops, lies, and suppresses the truth, nothing they say can be trusted.


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

Some additional remembrances of the CDC:

The Atlantic:  *‘**How Could the CDC Make That Mistake?**’  *(RE: conflating viral and antibody tests, compromising a few crucial metrics that governors depend on to reopen their economies)​​Business Insider*: ** Why The CDC Data is Bad*​​LA Times*:  **The CDC’s incredibly bad coronavirus testing advice*​​KATV:  *CDC misinformation on Covid-19 vaccines*​​NPR*:  **Scientists Warn CDC Testing Data Could Create Misleading Picture Of Pandemic*​
The CDC as a valid source?  It's quite political, as are most governmental bureaucracies but even more so given who's funding the shadow foundation.


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## Tom 86 (Aug 5, 2021)

*I don't believe any of them.  I rely on information from my Drs.  They are seeing all the cases & can give valuable information.

  Like they keep telling me to NOT get the second Moderna shot since I almost died from it. *


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## chic (Aug 5, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Not likely, there is no simple answer to your question.
> 
> I tend to rely more on sites that post data than opinions or interpretations alone.  I think the CDC data is useful, but some of their statements are less so.  And even sites that present data can be suspect.  I try to use a combination of common sense and reliance on real data to the extent I can find it...  I do my best to ignore what seems to me to be pure political spin and sort through the rest.


I agree. I don't feel WHO and the CDC are covid gospels anymore. Living in a covid ridden world for 18 months changes a person's perspective as it should do because science is fluid.


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## Sassycakes (Aug 5, 2021)

Honestly I don't believe anything I read about the Covid. I only believe that my nephew who has been in the hospital since November with the covid and had a double lung transplant and has been on and off ventilators, that covid exists. So I wear a mask when I go out and I got a vaccine. Hubby and I don't even mingle with friends or family.


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## Uptosnuff (Aug 5, 2021)

Frankly, I'm so tired of hearing about Covid, Covid, Covid I'm beginning not to care anymore about numbers or who is saying what.  I will live my life and if I catch it I catch it.  Humans have been dealing with viruses and plagues since the beginning of humankind.  It's how our bodies were designed.  

I don't know why people think that a death from Covid is the worst death in the history of the planet.  There have been a lot worse events in human history and here we still are.


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## terry123 (Aug 5, 2021)

I believe in the science and I trust Dr. Fauci even when others don't.  Things change and data changes.  I trust the Department of Health here in Harris County in Texas.  I see what is going on around me and the Hospitals here in the Med Center are full of covid patients and they are the ones who did not get the shots.  If you have a heart attack or stroke here in Houston you are screwed as there are few ICU beds available as the covid patients have them.  I just change the channel now when the daily hospital updates come on because I know what they are going to say.


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## helenbacque (Aug 5, 2021)

The only provable facts/absolutes about this virus are that it is real, it is highly contagious and it can be deadly or life altering.  All else is conjecture, someones best guess.   It's natural that 'best guesses' change as death and severe illness statistics change daily.  

Unfortunately, it has been used as a political tool and to further personal agendas from the beginning and that continues to this day.


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## Nathan (Aug 5, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Having just read the Disclaimer and Remindcer posted by Matrix, I am wondering about any future participation here.  First, the CDC, as mentioned by Matrix is NOT a reliable source of information.  It is politically driven and motivated and the extent to which they have changed their counting rules should have been a clue to anyone paying attention.  Fauci certainly isn't a reputable source of information given is continual flip-flopping, spinning and lying.  *Privately owned sites certain have the right to impose censorship*, just as we have the right to censor them in return with our participation.  This post may get me banned but it may also tell me the answer to my question.


Yes, there is no "right" to disseminate misleading statements in a private setting.    Your opinion is precious to _you,_ not so much to others.


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## CAKCy (Aug 5, 2021)

There is NO reputable site for COVID information anywhere in the world since for all countries the economy is more important than a few (or not a few) thousands dying. 

The only facts one can rely on:
1. COVID kills.
2. COVID is contagious
3. The more protection one takes the more chances one and the people in one's environment will survive this.


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

terry123 said:


> I believe in the science and I trust Dr. Fauci even when others don't.  Things change and data changes.  I trust the Department of Health here in Harris County in Texas.  I see what is going on around me and the Hospitals here in the Med Center are full of covid patients and they are the ones who did not get the shots.  If you have a heart attack or stroke here in Houston you are screwed as there are few ICU beds available as the covid patients have them.  I just change the channel now when the daily hospital updates come on because I know what they are going to say.


Just for kicks, I took a look at the Aug 3 hospital data in DC.  and hospital stats show about 1.5% were covid cases.   Looking at Texas Medical Center data, it shows only 17% of the hospital beds are for covid patients. What am I missing here?


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Yes, there is no "right" to disseminate misleading statements in a private setting.    Your opinion is precious to _you,_ not so much to others.


Attack time, again, Nathan?  Do you even bother looking at the references I list or is it they don't fit your political views?


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## SmoothSeas (Aug 5, 2021)

this Covid virus, just like all other extant organisms, has the biological imperative to perpetuate itself,.  In order to do that, it needs a host.  Well, guess what, folks?  We, genus Homo / species Sapien are the hosts.  

This virus doesn't care if your eight or eighty.  This virus doesn't really care about ethnicities; nor does it care about geo-political boundaries.  All it needs is a safe place to land in order to carry on...

Understanding the science, is understanding the necessity...


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

SmoothSeas said:


> this Covid virus, just like all other extant organisms, has the biological imperative to perpetuate itself,.  In order to do that, it needs a host.  Well, guess what, folks?  We, genus Homo / species Sapien are the hosts.
> 
> This virus doesn't care if your eight or eighty.  This virus doesn't really care about ethnicities; nor does it care about geo-political boundaries.  All it needs is a safe place to land in order to carry on...
> 
> *Understanding the science, is *understanding the necessity...


Would that be the science that said vaccination would prevent people from getting or spreading covid or the science that said it would probably help you cope with covid?


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## CAKCy (Aug 5, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Would that be the science that said vaccination would prevent people from getting or spreading covid or the science that said it would probably help you cope with covid?



Whether we like it or not science (and scientists) have to deal with something totally new to them. They are bound to make wrong turns here and there and they have no tool to go by other than statistics of people getting sick/getting vaccinated/not getting vaccinated etc.

Besides all of the above the virus itself is "trying to survive" (or evolution is doing it for it). So the facts change on a daily basis. The vaccine that is/was good for that variant may not be suitable for another variant.

Cancer has been around for ages and what is announced today to be carcinogenic, tomorrow may not be and vice versa. This is science. And it is based on experimentation and reporting. It's not faith....


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## OscarW (Aug 5, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Having just read the Disclaimer and Remindcer posted by Matrix, I am wondering about any future participation here.  First, the CDC, as mentioned by Matrix is NOT a reliable source of information.  It is politically driven and motivated and the extent to which they have changed their counting rules should have been a clue to anyone paying attention.  Fauci certainly isn't a reputable source of information given is continual flip-flopping, spinning and lying.  Privately owned sites certain have the right to impose censorship, just as we have the right to censor them in return with our participation.  This post may get me banned but it may also tell me the answer to my question.


Jon,

I had much the same reaction as you. I have little faith in most government information. The government’s track record for competence is dreadful. Unlike commercial businesses, it faces no competitive pressure to improve and serve its customers well. Throw in politically driven agendas and you have the perfect storm for misinformation. 

I hope you don’t get banned. I find your posts and insights to be quite helpful. 

Oscar


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## Nathan (Aug 5, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Attack time, again, Nathan?  Do you even bother looking at the references I list or is it they don't fit your political views?


Here you go once again with the "victim" thing.  I suppose you're going to call me a troll too?    With you preoccupation to tar & feather Fauci, and attempted discrediting of the CDC or any other knowledgeable source I'm suprised you haven't reached out and contacted them to discuss your misgivings...I'm sure they would love to hear from you.
You got your vaccine, why beat a dead horse?


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

CAKCy said:


> Whether we like it or not s*cience (and scientists) have to deal with something totally new to them.* They are bound to make wrong turns here and there and they have no tool to go by other than statistics of people getting sick/getting vaccinated/not getting vaccinated etc.
> 
> Besides all of the above the virus itself is "trying to survive" (or evolution is doing it for it). So the facts change on a daily basis. The vaccine that is/was good for that variant may not be suitable for another variant.
> 
> Cancer has been around for ages and what is announced today to be carcinogenic, tomorrow may not be and vice versa. This is science. And it is based on experimentation and reporting. It's not faith....


Sorry, this isn't the first covid scientists have dealt with, Here's a little history, given that getting fasts out of China is problematic:

Scientists first identified a human coronavirus in 1965. It caused a common cold. Later that decade, researchers found a group of similar human and animal viruses and named them after their crown-like appearance.​​Seven coronaviruses can infect humans. The one that causes SARS emerged in southern China in 2002 and quickly spread to 28 other countries. More than 8,000 people were infected by July 2003, and 774 died. A small outbreak in 2004 involved only four more cases. This coronavirus causes fever, headache, and respiratory problems such as cough and shortness of breath.​


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## Murrmurr (Aug 5, 2021)

SmoothSeas said:


> this Covid virus, just like all other extant organisms ... needs a host.  Well, guess what, folks?  *We .. are the hosts*.


Through natural evolution, or by design?
That's the debate I'm most interested in.

@JonDouglas - Finding a truly reliable source for accurate covid information is exhausting. Thanks for the links, there are a slew of them there that I don't have on my list. For the past year, my covid guidelines have been based on personal experience. Therefore, I move about freely, and only wear a mask if a sign says "required." I kiss my wife and grandchildren, cuddle with my former foster son, and visit my friends, who get a hug if they invite one. And, as always, I visit the homeless camps once or twice a month to offer necessities, where I get hugs and face-to-face conversation, and there is no social distancing.

Should I make a graph?


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## CAKCy (Aug 5, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Sorry, this isn't the first covid scientists have dealt with, Here's a little history, given that getting fasts out of China is problematic:
> 
> Scientists first identified a human coronavirus in 1965. It caused a common cold. Later that decade, researchers found a group of similar human and animal viruses and named them after their crown-like appearance.​​Seven coronaviruses can infect humans. The one that causes SARS emerged in southern China in 2002 and quickly spread to 28 other countries. More than 8,000 people were infected by July 2003, and 774 died. A small outbreak in 2004 involved only four more cases. This coronavirus causes fever, headache, and respiratory problems such as cough and shortness of breath.​


Your facts are correct. What you don't mention is that each and every new corona-virus is slightly (or not slightly) different than its predecessor. Even COVID19 has now multiple variants, some more dangerous than others. The fact is that scientists haven't faced THIS type of corona-virus before. (Plus... don't forget that there is still no cure for the 1965 common cold.)


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Here you go once again with the "victim" thing.  I suppose you're going to call me a troll too?    With you preoccupation to tar & feather Fauci, and attempted discrediting of the CDC or any other knowledgeable source I'm suprised you haven't reached out and contacted them to discuss your misgivings...I'm sure they would love to hear from you.
> You got your vaccine, why beat a dead horse?


Funny think is, I don't feel like a victim and I've no intention of calling you a troll.  The words "victim" and "troll" come out of your brain, not mine.  As for reaching out to the CDC, LOL, you must be either joking or failing to understand who the big money donors and political influences are that they listen to.  Finally, I had no idea that vaccine consequences (i.e., immunization rates, risks, adverse reactions, immunity factors, etc.) were a "dead horse."  You could have fooled me.


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

CAKCy said:


> Your facts are correct. *What you don't mention is that each and every new corona-virus is slightly (or not slightly) different than its predecessor. *Even COVID19 has now multiple variants, some more dangerous than others. The fact is that scientists haven't faced THIS type of corona-virus before. (Plus... don't forget that there is still no cure for the 1965 common cold.)


Perhaps I mistakenly assumed that everyone knew flu viruses spawned new variants for which a specific vaccine wasn't necessarily efficient.  They've been doing that for  years.  That a variant is "new" is not a new phenomenon.


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## CAKCy (Aug 5, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Perhaps I mistakenly assumed that everyone knew flu viruses spawned new variants for which a specific vaccine wasn't necessarily efficient.  They've been doing that for  years.  That a variant is "new" is not a new phenomenon.



That a variant is so different from its predecessors .... yes it is...(as it was for the avian-flu)


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## Nathan (Aug 5, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Funny think is, I don't feel like a victim and I've no intention of calling you a troll.


I'm glad you've gotten past that, was becoming annoying and quite frankly seeming a bit juvenile.


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## CAKCy (Aug 5, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Through natural evolution, or by design?
> That's the debate I'm most interested in.
> 
> @JonDouglas - Finding a truly reliable source for accurate covid information is exhausting. Thanks for the links, there are a slew of them there that I don't have on my list. For the past year, my covid guidelines have been based on personal experience. Therefore, I move about freely, and only wear a mask if a sign says "required." I kiss my wife and grandchildren, cuddle with my former foster son, and visit my friends, who get a hug if they invite one. And, as always, I visit the homeless camps once or twice a month to offer necessities, where I get hugs and face-to-face conversation, and there is no social distancing.
> ...



You are a very decent person, my friend, but please don't risk it so much. It would be very bad if you got sick and I know it would hurt you more if you transmitted it to somebody else. A mask is not the end of the world....


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

Nathan said:


> I'm glad you've gotten past that, was becoming annoying and quite frankly seeming a bit juvenile.


Nathan, when you're in a hole, stop digging.


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## CAKCy (Aug 5, 2021)

@Nathan @JonDouglas  Come on you guys. I know I'm new here and I don't know how much you "love" each other... but don't make things worse.... Pretty please???


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## Nathan (Aug 5, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Nathan, when you're in a hole, stop digging.


Lol, that's an odd response, perhaps it worked for you in the past in some other situation.

You can go back to your bashing the Covid authorities thing, it seems to give you pleasure, whereas meeting with those that may disagree with your viewpoint only makes your posts appear agitated & defensive.


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## SmoothSeas (Aug 5, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Through natural evolution, or by design?
> That's the debate I'm most interested in.



My best guess would be, by Mother Nature's design, via natural selection.

Biology is biology - it's taken Mother eons to prefect herself - and she's still hard at.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 5, 2021)

SmoothSeas said:


> My best guess would be, by Mother Nature's design, via natural selection.
> 
> Biology is biology - it's taken Mother eons to prefect herself - and she's still hard at.


I disagree. I believe C-19 was designed to be hosted by humans. After countless eons, for a virus designed to live happily and innocuously in bats to suddenly become compatible to life within human tissue is a giant evolutionary leap, and an unnecessary one.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 5, 2021)

CAKCy said:


> You are a very decent person, my friend, but please don't risk it so much. It would be very bad if you got sick and I know it would hurt you more if you transmitted it to somebody else. A mask is not the end of the world....


True, a mask is not the end of the world. It's also not very effective protection against the covid virus, but I wear one if I'm asked to. No big deal.


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## CAKCy (Aug 5, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> True, a mask is not the end of the world. It's also not very effective protection against the covid virus, but I wear one if I'm asked to. No big deal.


But it's not the "if you are asked to"... It's the "if you see the reasoning behind it". The mask not being very effective against the virus for YOU is true. But it's not true for your environment. Because it stops your sneezing and coughing from spreading around.


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## Liberty (Aug 5, 2021)

Here is the Texas Med Center Covid Case info for Harris County - we moved into code  "Red"Alert recently:

https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/total-tmc-covid-19-positive-patients-in-hospital/


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## SmoothSeas (Aug 5, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I disagree. I believe C-19 was designed to be hosted by humans. After countless eons, for a virus designed to live happily and innocuously in bats to suddenly become compatible to life within human tissue is a giant evolutionary leap, and an unnecessary one.



Designed for possible biological warfare, maybe?  

Defiantly possible - but probable?  Given the state of today's technology, starting with Watson & Crick, possible, yes.  But then you need the mad scientist, who, possess the requisite knowledge, and has his own personal agenda for unleashing Covid on this planet...  

Or, maybe some petty despot recruits this mad scientist and...

Create your own ending in 1k words or less


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## CAKCy (Aug 5, 2021)

SmoothSeas said:


> Designed for possible biological warfare, maybe?
> 
> Defiantly possible - but probable?  Given the state of today's technology, starting with Watson & Crick, possible, yes.  But then you need the mad scientist, who, possess the requisite knowledge, and has his own personal agenda for unleashing Covid on this planet...
> 
> ...


Vietnam - Agent Orange....


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

Liberty said:


> Here is the Texas Med Center Covid Case info for Harris County - we moved into code  "Red"Alert recently:
> 
> https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/total-tmc-covid-19-positive-patients-in-hospital/


Noting that's just one county, are those the number of  beds occupied by covid patients or just cases reported by the hospital?  I ask because the original claim was that beds were full up with covid patients.  I have also been told that some percentage of people who used to "tough it out" when they had the flu are now flocking to hospitals and their affiliate centers because they are more frightened these days.  I've no idea of the extent or truth of that.


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## SmoothSeas (Aug 5, 2021)

CAKCy said:


> Vietnam - Agent Orange....



and still experiencing some of it's ramifications...


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## Liberty (Aug 5, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> Noting that's just one county, are those the number of  beds occupied by covid patients or just cases reported by the hospital?  I ask because the original claim was that beds were full up with covid patients.


We are the third largest county in America - last time I looked anyway. Not "just one country" for sure, guy.  One "big and populated county"...lol.


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## fmdog44 (Aug 5, 2021)

Fauci and none of the liars that oppose him in the name of protecting their political party.


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## CAKCy (Aug 5, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Fauci and none of the liars that oppose him in the name of protecting their political party.



I'm sorry to say this but as an outsider... both political parties play the same game, get paid by the same donors, are interested in power more than people exactly the same way.

It's time that people understand that politicians are nothing more than paid employees of the corporations.
A simple proof:
There have been times when the Presidency, the Senate and the House were either Republican or Democrat. Have you seen anything radical happening, _from either side,_ that would benefit the people and NOT the corporations? 

The Republican "trickle down economy" benefits the corporations.
The Democrat "trickle up economy" still benefits the corporations.

(And to make it clear... I'm not talking only about the US. I'm talking about my country and every country in the world. Unfortunately idealism is just an illusion. And I had to become a senior to realize that....)

I know this is politics and we are not supposed to say anything. But it's not in favor of anyone so I hope @Matrix will allow this. Otherwise he can remove it...


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## Pepper (Aug 5, 2021)

Two sides of the same coin @CAKCy


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## CAKCy (Aug 5, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Two sides of the same coin @CAKCy


And the irony is that they are both... heads.....


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## officerripley (Aug 5, 2021)

SmoothSeas said:


> My best guess would be, by Mother Nature's design, via natural selection.
> 
> Biology is biology - it's taken Mother eons to prefect herself - and she's still hard at.


Too bad, though, that some (especially science deniers, IMO) keep trying to kill her.


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

Liberty said:


> We are the third largest county in America - last time I looked anyway. Not "just one country" for sure, guy.  One "big and populated county"...lol.


The issue I was addressing was the percent of beds being occupied by covid patients, not the size of the county or the number of new cases.  There was near certainty the the number of new cases would go up with the variant, despite masking and immunization.  The question of greater interest is the death and hospital saturation rate by covid patients taking up beds.  Those two considerations are what tell you the most about the ferocity of the virus, not new cases.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 5, 2021)

SmoothSeas said:


> *Designed for possible biological warfare, maybe?*
> 
> Defiantly possible - but probable?  Given the state of today's technology, starting with Watson & Crick, possible, yes.  But then you need the mad scientist, who, possess the requisite knowledge, and has his own personal agenda for unleashing Covid on this planet...
> 
> ...


Quite possible. 

No mad scientist needed, just well-educated, talented virologists and a well-funded lab.
I do believe its release was inadvertent, though. And I'd even say premature.


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Fauci and none of the liars that oppose him in the name of protecting their political party.


People who oppose Fauci are liars?  Given how many times Fauci has changed his story, it must have been difficult for you to come up with a rational basis for that indictment.


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## win231 (Aug 5, 2021)

helenbacque said:


> The only provable facts/absolutes about this virus are that it is real, it is highly contagious and it can be deadly or life altering.  All else is conjecture, someones best guess.   It's natural that 'best guesses' change as death and severe illness statistics change daily.
> 
> Unfortunately, it has been used as a political tool and to further personal agendas from the beginning and that continues to this day.


True - Covid is real, highly contagious, and it can be deadly or life altering.  Pretty much also describes the flu, unless you believe what they're trying to convince us of.


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

One might wonder if, when and what the "approved sources", whatever they are, are going to tell you about the Lamda Variant that seems to be coming up next.  What great advice will the "trusted" sources say about that and when will they get around to it?  Will it be a variant of "concern" like alpha, beta, gamma or delta or just one of "interest".  Will current vaccines work as originally advertised or will they behave like vaccines of the past?  The only thing new here is the FUD being tossed around.  The good news is that death rates are way down at the moment and people are getting tired of media FUD and BS.


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## JonDouglas (Aug 5, 2021)

Smart people would, IMHO, take care to listen to and consider two sides to most discussions and not think along political lines or get hung up on sources.  The vaccination discussions are a case in point, where some can't get beyond their own stance.  For example, calling people anti-vaxers is a non-thinking behavior, especially when discussing viral infections.  Suppose I said "_Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID_"  and then went on suggest it might be a valid argument for some people to not get vaccinated with the onslaught of covid variants coming down the line.

I could leave it at that and see who'd get their panties in a bunch, possibly hit the Report button  but that wouldn't be kind to any of the admins who might be working.  Instead, I'll just say Israel National News.


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