# Do you support Obama's immigration reform?



## Ralphy1 (Nov 21, 2014)

The way he laid it out made sense to me with the opportunities and restrictions.  Something needed to be done to get a handle on this mess and he showed leadership while Congress dithered.  Whether or not he had the authority to act can be left to the courts to decide, but surely you support his decision to act...


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## Warrigal (Nov 21, 2014)

I heard most of his speech and I thought it was reasonable and pragmatic.
If Congress won't put legislation up for a vote then something must be done to sever the Gordian knot.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 21, 2014)

NO! Those people broke the law to come here for the purpose of having their kids here. The automatic citizenship for those born on US soil should be stopped.


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## Warrigal (Nov 21, 2014)

Did you hear the speech?


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## QuickSilver (Nov 21, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Did you hear the speech?




No... he apparently didn't.     I thought it very pragmatic..  There IS no path to citizenship.. only a three year work permit for the parents of Kids born in the US..  They must have been here for 5 years, and they must pass a background check..and they will not be deported. They can work and pay taxes.. all reasonable.   Boarder security is being increased... to appease Republicans even though we now have a net negative boarder crossing.  The parents of the Dreamer Kids (daca) are NOT included, which I thought should be.    He made it clear, that he is NOT writing legislation, that is the congress's job.  If they don't like what he did, then they need to PASS A BILL!..   but they won't.   They are caught between a rock and a hard spot.  They don't want to piss off their loyal base of xenophobes... and they don't want to allienate the massive hispanic voting block.   They will waste time and money shutting down the government.. (hey no SS checks if that goes on long enough)  and sueing the president... or even the Holy Grail of impeachement.  All good theater..  Bring me some popcorn!!


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## BobF (Nov 21, 2014)

I thought it was really a farce the way it was put out.   Since Obama has become the President the Republicans are never recognized as they try to bring items to focus with legislation.   The Republicans were never allowed in the medical system debates the Democrats were having to start Obama Care.   They also go no votes from the Republicans either.   Then for the last 4 years with the Republicans in charge of the HOUSE the Democrat SENATE just would not pick up or respond to over 300 items the HOUSE wrote and forwarded to the SENATE.   We have not had a true and working government since Obama became our President.   So yesterdays speech was typical of the Obama ways.   Blame those that you folks have denied a part in our government for all things you don't like even though it was not their problem at all.   The Republicans have been trying to help run our government the way the people have voted them to do.   But the Democrats just keep the doors closed to any and all that are not preaching just the way they want things.   His ideas are not all bad but they  could have been more shared than just finger pointing like a little kid that just was given a bad time in the last election.   Many time the border patrol has been told to lay back and not try to stop the border crossings.  

The US needs much better border crossing detriments and should change some of our laws to end the idea of sending their children into the US.  

Yes the US, Republicans and all, so want to have proper border controls but our Democrats don't seem to have the ability to allow debates on how best to accomplish that with the Democrat SENATE not allowing any debates from the Republican HOUSE side for the last 6 years.   Starting in January we will see if have a Republican HOUSE and SENATE will start getting some things done for a change after 6 years of Democrat controlled blocking of open discussions and in house voting on which way is best to go.   We have had no real government since our current Democrat mess began, 8 years ago, but only really counting the recent 6 years of Obama control.   Our government is not supposed to be run as a dictatorship of the Obama style, both sides of government need to be heard and the work load shared by both sides, HOUSE and SENATE.   We have a largely uncooperative Democrat government and not allowing the Repuclican side to have a say at all.   I believe that is why this last election went so hard against the Democrats.   The people in general are judging the biggest problem in our government.   The lack of fairness and cooperation between all in the government, especially between the President and the two houses of Congress.


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## Lyn (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes, I do.


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## JudyB (Nov 21, 2014)

*NO i do not!!!*


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## WhatInThe (Nov 21, 2014)

Reform isn't the right word here. Obama's "action" or memo on immigration is more like it.

Besides being wrong it is bad and/or unfair policy which will make enforcement tougher than it is now. How does an illegal alien "in the shadows" prove they've been in the US for five years? This is even more incentive for id theft or identity take over. 

We'll have to look on the good side. We will now have documentation on these illegals. There will be finger prints, photos, background checks etc which could be used as proof in a criminal case down the road. They will be stuck with what ever id they decide to use on their application for amnesty. If they don't like they'll go back into "the shadows".


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## Davey Jones (Nov 21, 2014)

You all need to remember thats 5,000,000 more people in the US and most ,like the others,will end up on our welfare system.


Food stamps anyone ?????


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## Davey Jones (Nov 21, 2014)

"MORE FOREIGN WORKERS LEGALIZED THAN JOBS CREATED..."

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/20/o...-many-foreign-workers-as-new-jobs-since-2009/#!


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes, I support our President on this issue.  It's about time someone takes action to address some of the immigration issues here in America, instead of just whining about the problem and refusing to work on a solution.  I only heard a couple of minutes of the President's speech yesterday, here it is for others who may have missed it and want to hear it.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes, I totally support President Obama's Immigration Reform.  I hope there will be many more executive orders, seems to be the only way to move forward with this congress......leave them whining in the dust.


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## JustBonee (Nov 21, 2014)

Didn't see/hear Obama's speech last night ....I  thought it was only Texas banning "everything  Obama",  but it  seems all the major networks in the country refused to show it.  .. reason being "it was too political"...nthego:


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## BobF (Nov 21, 2014)

It was on the FOX NEWS, usually  much more *open and honest* than some of the lead broadcasters are.   I put NBC next on honesty.   And some of the others can get pretty narrow minded with news reports.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 21, 2014)

Bonnie said:


> Didn't see/hear Obama's speech last night ....I  thought it was only Texas banning "everything  Obama",  but it  seems all the major networks in the country refused to show it.  .. reason being "it was too political"...nthego:



Yes, Bonnie, there were several corporate networks that did not report the speech, but you can bet your bottom dollar they will air all the criticism they can round up.


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## drifter (Nov 21, 2014)

Some people have such a dislike for that man in the White House and most of what he says or does, it has, I think, affected their good judgement. For Republicans it's damned if they do and I hope, damned if they don't. Yes, I support the President's actions. The President didn't go far enough but at least he acted on a problem that has languished unattended for decades.


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## []Doo[]Der (Nov 21, 2014)

I have mixed feelings. They don't have legal rights to stay. They broke laws, they are illegal. How do you get around the fact that Obama is ignoring the law breaking and rewarding same. To me it's a case of illegal entry being shoved under the table. That would suggest I submit, that other illegals will follow their success in circumventing immigration law.

If they're illegal he's complicit in encouraging law breakers.
Additionall as an aside. If 5 million can get in illegaly (probably millions more than that), then it follows there is still,regardless Homeland ecurity, many sleeper terrorists also waiting opportunity.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 21, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> Yes, I support our President on this issue.  It's about time someone takes action to address some of the immigration issues here in America, instead of just whining about the problem and refusing to work on a solution.  I only heard a couple of minutes of the President's speech yesterday, here it is for others who may have missed it and want to hear it.



A well crafted speech to emote and evoke emotion as to create a visceral response to those that oppose it. He did not need to do an executive order to address the problem. This was to prop open the door for more illegal immigrants to pander to.

Solutions have been there with anything to finishing the wall/fence to just funding the current system to work the way it was supposed to. Both parties backed off solutions because they were scared kitty cats worried about votes, not solutions.

Anyone who thinks executive order is the way to do anything is fooling themselves because a president might take "executive action" that might not be so popular with the same group. Setting aside what ever policy changes were made people who look for one man or women to solve problem have just set themselves up for a totalitarian dictatorship. It might be in the seed planting stage but it's the beginning of a perilous path.


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## []Doo[]Der (Nov 21, 2014)

WhatInThe said:


> A well crafted speech to emote and evoke emotion as to create a visceral response to those that oppose it. He did not need to do an executive order to address the problem. This was to prop open the door for more illegal immigrants to pander to.
> 
> Solutions have been there with anything to finishing the wall/fence to just funding the current system to work the way it was supposed to. Both parties backed off solutions because they were scared kitty cats worried about votes, not solutions.
> 
> Anyone who thinks executive order is the way to do anything is fooling themselves because a president might take "executive action" that might not be so popular with the same group. Setting aside what ever policy changes were made people who look for one man or women to solve problem have just set themselves up for a totalitarian dictatorship. It might be in the seed planting stage but it's the beginning of a perilous path.



Well said. It's dictatorial to use an executive order I agree. A knee jerk action can be 'sold' with emotions contrary to good sense or ignoring the consequences.

Obamas last years will be devoted to establishing his legacy.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 21, 2014)

[]Doo[]Der said:


> Well said. It's dictatorial to use an executive order I agree. A knee jerk action can be 'sold' with emotions contrary to good sense or ignoring the consequences.
> 
> Obamas last years will be devoted to establishing his legacy.



Exactly, he's trying salvage his legacy and leave something for the Demorats to work with in 2016. The trap of this action is two fold. Even if it is screwed up by the administration they will, not can but they will blame it on right wing racists. In the meantime potential get of jail free card applicants will get screwed.


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## Denise1952 (Nov 21, 2014)

[video]http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/full-episodes/j6rsxn/november-20--2014---jon-stewart[/video]


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## drifter (Nov 21, 2014)

We're are not setting ourselves up for a dictatorship by a President taking executive action. Recent Presidents have issued more executive orders than has President Obama, well, I don't know about President Clinton, he was awfully busy, and we do have that old constitution that keeps us from doing things like this that people worry about. The Congress could negate the whole thing if they wanted to enact a law. Congress seems afraid to enact anything except buck the President. So, I wouldn't worry my mind over a little deal like this one, regardless of what it seems like to some. We're protected, afterall, NSA is watching. And if you have a good memory you will realize the President was merely parapharasing the last President.


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## WhatInThe (Nov 21, 2014)

Everyone seems to be talking about a more 'active' congress. But an active congress or more laws is the last thing you want on any issue.

The problem with immigration there has been a system already in place that has been nudged, manipulated into and/or forced into politically precarious positions or outcomes.

If ICE or the old INS had simply done their jobs to the fullest over the decades we would not be in a position we are today. There was a reason they incorporated the old immigration and naturalization service(INS) to ICE(immigration and customs enforcement)-make over after 9-11 so people would forget what role INS had or didn't have. And by incorporating everything under DHS what should've been neutral political organizations are now a political tool. Thank W for that.


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## BobF (Nov 21, 2014)

Why are so many afraid to have a Congress working again, after Jan 1?   Right now the HOUSE of REPRESENTATIVES never gets their over 300 items recognized or worked on because the leader of the SENATE will not allow anything his Democrat enemy, the Republicans, want to bring up.   All this failure of the Republicans failure to do something is because of the Democrat leaders refusal to allow them any freedom to work.   

Put the blame where it should be, if wanting to be fair.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 21, 2014)

drifter said:


> We're are not setting ourselves up for a dictatorship by a President taking executive action. Recent Presidents have issued more executive orders than has President Obama, well, I don't know about President Clinton, he was awfully busy, and we do have that old constitution that keeps us from doing things like this that people worry about. The Congress could negate the whole thing if they wanted to enact a law. Congress seems afraid to enact anything except buck the President. So, I wouldn't worry my mind over a little deal like this one, regardless of what it seems like to some. We're protected, afterall, NSA is watching. And if you have a good memory you will realize the President was merely parapharasing the last President.



I agree with all you've said, Drifter. Here's more if you're interested...http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/disposition.html




 President Barack Obama - (2009-present) = 191 executive orders


 President George W. Bush - (2001-2009) = 291 executive orders


 President Bill Clinton - (1993-2001) = 364 executive orders


 President George H. W. Bush (1989-1993) = 166 executive orders


 President Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) = 381 executive orders


 President Jimmy Carter (1977-1981) = 320 executive orders


 President Gerald Ford (1974-1977) = 169 executive orders


 President Richard Nixon (1969-1974) = 346 executive orders


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## drifter (Nov 21, 2014)

Thank you, yes, ma'am, I am interested, and what a tale it tells. It says the guy in the White House ain't half bad, EOwise.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 21, 2014)

To those who believe we shouldn't legalize people, or at least put them on a path to citizenship, I have to ask for your solution..  Mass deportation?  I have heard some politicians talking about "Roundin' 'em up and sending them back"   Ok... here's the thing.  It is estimated that the cost to deport a single person is $12,500..   There are approximately 12 million  undocumented people in the US..   Do the math.  Even if we had that kind of money, the logistics of rounding up 12 million people and figuring out where to send them would be insurmountable.  Many have been here so long they have no homes in their native countries..  So.. I guess, I'm asking WHO here has a solution OTHER than legalizing them.    At least if they are here working, they will be paying taxes.  

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/feds-estimate-deportation-costs-12500-person


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## drifter (Nov 21, 2014)

I think there is a fear they may someday vote. Ofcourse I don't know that. It is the first thing that jumped into my mind. I am subject to, from time to time, an occasional error in judgement my own self.


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## Sid (Nov 21, 2014)

drifter said:


> Some people have such a dislike for that man in the White House and most of what he says or does, it has, I think, affected their good judgement. For Republicans it's damned if they do and I hope, damned if they don't. Yes, I support the President's actions. The President didn't go far enough but at least he acted on a problem that has languished unattended for decades.



        There is plenty of dislike on both sides.  Just read replies on this board.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 21, 2014)

drifter said:


> I think there is a fear they may someday vote. Ofcourse I don't know that. It is the first thing that jumped into my mind. I am subject to, from time to time, an occasional error in judgement my own self.



Actually that is ONE of the reasons.  Hispanics as a block tend to vote Democratic...so any Hispanic added to the voting rolls will likely vote for Democrats..  but they will  be more inclined to if Republicans keep stalling on immigration reform.   However, the OTHER big reason is AgriBusiness..  These large agricultural corporations depend on illegal laborers that can be paid poorly and even cheated out of wages... Who are they going to complain to after all.   Now they will have to treat them fairly.. of course the cost of fairness will be passed on to us.. but we end up paying in one way or another all the time.  So what else is new.


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## Sid (Nov 21, 2014)

If I am not mistaken immigration reform was passed and signed into law in 1986.


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## Warrigal (Nov 21, 2014)

Bonnie said:


> Didn't see/hear Obama's speech last night ....I  thought it was only Texas banning "everything  Obama",  but it  seems all the major networks in the country refused to show it.  .. reason being "it was too political"...nthego:



What? I heard it on my car radio in Sydney, Australia.
How can an announcement of that import be "too political"?
Is politics a secret over there?


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## Sid (Nov 21, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> What? I heard it on my car radio in Sydney, Australia.
> How can an announcement of that import be "too political"?
> Is politics a secret over there?


 
            It is pretty much more of the same oh same oh. A lot of folks get tired of it after awhile.


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## Sid (Nov 21, 2014)

Sid said:


> If I am not mistaken immigration reform was passed and signed into law in 1986.




      As recall it was co-sponsored by members of both parties and signed by a Republican. I didn't think it was a good idea back then either.
      Everybody I talking about what a mess we are in, guess I was right.


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## Warrigal (Nov 21, 2014)

If that is the case, Sid, then I have a mental picture of the population fiddling while Rome is on fire.
Democracy requires people to pay attention. Directly, not through some media baron's smoked glass filter.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 21, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> What? I heard it on my car radio in Sydney, Australia.
> How can an announcement of that import be "too political"?
> Is politics a secret over there?



  Don't forget the major networks are owned by large corporations.. They dictate what they want Americans to hear or not hear.  They detest our President and are censuring the airwaves..  You can bet however ALL the nonsensical criticisms and bat$het crazy comments coming from the right will get plenty of airing.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 21, 2014)

Some information I was reading about the historical reasons behind all this illegal immigration of refugees fleeing their countries to the US (and other countries), so perhaps we are partly responsible for creating this problem to begin with?...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/refugee-crisis-border_n_5596125.html




> The 57,000 children from Central America who have streamed across the U.S.-Mexico border this year were driven in large part by the United States itself.
> 
> While Democrats and Republicans have been pointing fingers at each other, in reality the current wave of migration from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras has its roots in six decades of U.S. policies carried out by members of both parties.
> 
> ...


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## JudyB (Nov 21, 2014)

Bonnie said:


> Didn't see/hear Obama's speech last night ....I  thought it was only Texas banning "everything  Obama",  but it  seems all the major networks in the country refused to show it.  .. reason being "it was too political"...nthego:




Very strange it was all over all the different channels on my television, including NBC , CNN etc, at 6:00pm sharp as advertised here in Arizona.


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## BobF (Nov 21, 2014)

In reading this thread I did not once see any comments on why we still do not have a locked off border between the US and Mexico.   That is what is bothering a lot of folks in the US government, including some of the Democrats too.   Efforts to have such effort completed in the many miles of border not yet protected mean the thousands more can come over the border and be another problem for our government.   And likely creating another bunch of thousands to worry about after this current group gets taken care of.   This is not the first time and effort to correct the problem of far too many unknown folks living in the US.

Extending and reinforcing our border to the south has been an ongoing effort for mainly the conservative side while the left and further left liberals don't seem to think we need to control who lives in the US or if they are registered or not.   So years go by and nothing ever seems to get done to properly reinforce and protect our borders.


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Nov 21, 2014)

The Senate passed a bipartisan immigration bill long ago.  That bill has laid on Boehner's desk for 512 days and he won't allow it to be brought to the House floor or even to committee.  Pass a bill!!  The Republicans will not do anything that might give an advantage to the other political party.  Pass a bill!!  What the POTUS did was within his legal authority, but is should not have come to that.  Pass a bill!!!

I drove a little over 400 miles, today, 380 of which was in dense fog.  So, with my eyes bugging out of my head, I listened to Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, NPR, etc... both sides of the coin.  Heard interviews of many Congressmen.  It is hughly a partisan issue.  

This past couple weeks, I've been sent to a project some miles from home to get it turned around.  The contractor is known for his "connections" and is not used to having to perform quality work.  He employs all Hispanics, most of which I would guess are undocumented.  Was told this week, he has three trailer houses hidden in a timbered acerage he owns where he houses somewhere between 25 and 50 undocumented Hispanics. He pays them $25/day and treats them poorly.  They are threatened that he will turn them in if they don't work for peanuts.  
Today is different than yesterday for most of these people.  If they meet the conditons set forth last night, they will not be citizens... they will not get amnesty.. but they can either demand a fair wage or be free to go find another job.  This action should bring people out into the open and have them able to work for a decent living and pay taxes.

This was a step in the right direction.  Hopefully, it will motive Congress to actually do something... Pass a bill!!!


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## BobF (Nov 21, 2014)

From the story above I see a likely result of the Democrat Senate leader Harry Reid's failure to read or act on any of the 300 bills the Republicans have written and sent to the Senate with no action from the Harry Reid to allow them to advance and get voted on.   We really need both sides of the story on who is writing and getting no follow up.   Normally the path for legislation would be from the House and forwarded on to he Senate for review and changes or successful vote.   But as we see there are times when the Senate can initiate something to be moved to the House for action.   Either way, both sides should take time to review then table or act on the bill.   The way things have been going in our Congress it is definitly out of control on the Democra side for sure.    And I am sure there are some action from the House that some won't like either.  Many won't like these comments even though they are true.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 21, 2014)

More on the southern border fence and the expense involved, and effectiveness...http://theweek.com/article/index/241400/what-would-it-take-to-secure-the-us-mexico-border



> *How can security be improved?
> 
> *The Border Patrol could be deployed more efficiently. Currently, nearly 40 percent of the agency's staff is based in Tucson or El Paso, where intense enforcement has resulted in declining numbers of attempted crossings.
> 
> ...


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 21, 2014)

Grumpy Ol' Man said:


> The Senate passed a bipartisan immigration bill long ago.  That bill has laid on Boehner's desk for 512 days and he won't allow it to be brought to the House floor or even to committee.  Pass a bill!!  The Republicans will not do anything that might give an advantage to the other political party.  Pass a bill!!  What the POTUS did was within his legal authority, but is should not have come to that.  Pass a bill!!!
> 
> I drove a little over 400 miles, today, 380 of which was in dense fog.  So, with my eyes bugging out of my head, I listened to Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, NPR, etc... both sides of the coin.  Heard interviews of many Congressmen.  It is hughly a partisan issue.
> 
> ...



Makes sense to me!


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## Sid (Nov 21, 2014)

Dame Warrigal said:


> If that is the case, Sid, then I have a mental picture of the population fiddling while Rome is on fire.
> Democracy requires people to pay attention. Directly, not through some media baron's smoked glass filter.



            Your mental picture is pretty much a reality. You must remember our country was not founded as a democracy but a republic. If that concept was followed I don.t think we would be in the shape we are in today.


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## BobF (Nov 21, 2014)

I expect that after the holidays we will have a Congress with no more Reid involved with blocking House bills from any action.   We will then have a Republican Senate that likely will not be busy obstructing House bills.   Hopefully then we will see some legislation get all the way to Obama and see if he is willing to work with the Congress or just continue to being a radical that wants to do it all on his own without legislation.   This should be a eye opening period, these next couple years.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 21, 2014)

I don't think he wants to do it all on his own, I think he has to.


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## Sid (Nov 21, 2014)

If you take post 45 and 46 of the replies to this thread and put them together you get a true partial picture of the problem. BOTH SIDES of the aisle.
     Remember a bill to reform imagration was passed when Regan was president That granted amnesty under certain conditions and made allowances for tighter security measures.
     May I also point out the executive branch is responsible to see the laws are carried out. If you don't already know the President is the head of the executive branch.
     It seems to me the executive branch has not been doing its job, previous ones as well as this one.
     We don't need more bills passed. That just amounts to passing the buck.
     Not only have the laws not been enforced we have had interference from, the federal government thwarting the attempts of states along the border to protect their own borders.


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## Sid (Nov 21, 2014)

SeaBreeze said:


> I don't think he wants to do it all on his own, I think he has to.



    He cannot do it own his own he does not have the power.


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## BobF (Nov 22, 2014)

The difference between a Republic and a Democracy.    It seems small but it makes a big difference for each of us.    Far too often our current government acts just like for a democracy, which is wrong as can be.

https://www.1215.org

[h=1]REPUBLIC vs. DEMOCRACY[/h] _I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."_ 

SUMMARY 
 In the Pledge of Allegiance we all pledge allegiance to our Republic,  not to a democracy.  "Republic" is the proper description of our  government, not "democracy."  I invite you to join me in raising public  awareness regarding that distinction.  A republic and a democracy are identical in every aspect except one.  In  a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person.  In a  democracy the sovereignty is in the group.

Republic. That form of government in which the powers of sovereignty are  vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly,  or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers  are specially delegated. [NOTE:  The word "people" may be either plural  or singular.  In a republic the group only has advisory powers; the  sovereign individual is free to reject the majority group-think.   USA/exception: if 100% of a jury convicts, then the individual loses  sovereignty and is subject to group-think as in a democracy.]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides  in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or  indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a  monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. [NOTE:  In a pure democracy, 51%  beats 49%.  In other words, the minority has no rights.  The minority  only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.]

(And more follows.)


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## BobF (Nov 22, 2014)

Next election is in two years and will be for the President, Congress - 1/3 of Senate and all of House of Representatives, state governments, and many individuals locally.   Other local issues sometimes come up and have their elections as wanted or needed.


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## Davey Jones (Nov 22, 2014)

Did ya all know that Obama's dog can actually talk.
(just trying to change this useless topic.)


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## BobF (Nov 22, 2014)

Why?   Some folks think Obama can ignore the Congress and do everything by himself.   Others would like to see Obama get the Congress off their grudge fight and back to work as they are supposed to do.   The President should be trying to get the Congress to debate certain items and then make laws appropriate or dump the idea.   What we have had for too long is a President that does not want to wait for Congress to debate and take action so he just keeps on doing what he wants to do.   The Republican House has passed many ideas, over 300, and the Democrat Senate won't even open and debate those ideas, so the Congress ends up being broken rather than joined.

One big problem with our government is the politics that have taken over on both sides.   We should not have these political groups driving everything.   We do not need these two political parties driving everything their way only.    We don't need the left and far left holding the Democrat party to their rules nor the conservative and even more conservative holding the Republican party to their rules.   Look into the records of the two parties and we have about 1/3 of the Congress for each political party and the remainder independents.    Within each political party there are those that do not blindly follow the party leadership.   In other words, some conservative Democrats and some liberal Republicans.   And that is the way their votes should show too.

Our government has turned into nothing good lately and neither party is helping to keep our government open and free for the people to say what they want to do.   Maybe that is why more and more are not running with either party and just run independent.     We need to get back to being a Republic with the peoples votes being the strongest way and neither political party have so much power.   The main power should be back into the hands of the people as the Republic says it should be.


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## Meanderer (Nov 22, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Did ya all know that Obama's dog can actually talk.
> (just trying to change this useless topic.)


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## BobF (Nov 22, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> What is he going to lose??  He has NOTHING to lose...   He does not have to worry about being re-elected.. and he has boxed the GOP into a pretty neat little corner.   It's like a bunch of  Checkers players up against a Grand Chess Master..   I'm looking forward to the show..



Partially correct but not sure about the GOP  being boxed into anything at all.   Wait till January and see how they respond to their new jobs.    They may just ignore this action of Obama and move on to doing things for the country.   Like passing bills the Senate under Reid just did not want to do.    Maybe we will see our government come back to life after a 6 year slumber.   If the US acts as a Republic should, there will be no problems and no reason to attack Obama, just keep him busy doing things the way he should and not as a loner emperor.


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## Denise1952 (Nov 22, 2014)




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## BobF (Nov 22, 2014)

Why post that on a US forum.    It does not tell any truth about the US at all.

Why do homeless go without eating.   Places where I have lived have places to feed the homeless folks.   Just walk through the door and get fed.

Elderly go with out medicine.   Why?    Between insurances and government support medicines are available for old folks.

Mentally ill go without treatment.    Not true in the US where I have lived.   Mentally ill get taken care of.

Troops go without proper equipment.   Why?    The troops of the US always get best possible equipment.    In Korean days we had plenty, but not as nice as what my son and daughter both got in recent years.   Yugoslavia and later in Iraq for my son.   Iraq for over a year, then back again later for only a short term of 3 months or so for my daughter.   The US tries to give them the best we can get at the time.

Veterans go without promised benefits.   News for me as I hear of no refusals of benefits to our veterans today.    After I got out of service benefits were added to the package and I got letters telling me of them and how to apply.

Yet we donate billions to other countries.   Yes we do and for good reasons.   Every country we help is likely to help us if we ask.

Excessive immigration.   Yes for sure.    But until our government agrees to help the states shut down the borders this will continue.   Immigration should be OK for the future but it should come from controlled numbers and not from the sneaking mobs that come over and then get taken care of at our expense.

No reason to re-post as much of this is not about the US.    If it fits some other countries ways then add that countries name before re-posting these lies about the US.


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## Denise1952 (Nov 22, 2014)

You said it Bob, you haven't seen it "where you live", I have.  I'm going to tell you where I stand and then that's it.  The United States needs to take care of it's "own" issues first, period.


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## BobF (Nov 22, 2014)

From my point of view, that is exactly what the US is trying to do.   We do take care of our own and all the immigrants too.   We also try to go around the world after disasters and take care of them too.   For far too many years the US has been the major supporter of the UN and the UN's missions in addition to the mission we have had on our own.   How much longer can the US carry such loads with out failures?   That is a constant threat to the US and our current debt which has risen from 7 trillion to 17 trillion in the 8 years so far where the budgets were under the Democrat control in the US Congress and under our current President.   That needs to be looked into and somehow reduced to a lower level and heading down again.

And I have live in most areas of the US.   Great lakes area where I grew up.   Mississippi, poor area but even there folks got taken care of.   California, Florida, Virginia, Kentucky, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, and other areas where I was there for short stays.    I was born into the Great Depression and remember the harder days.    But even then there were ways for hungry to get fed.


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## Denise1952 (Nov 22, 2014)

Exactly!!  How much more can we take on, what do you think I'm talking about!  Get our own business straightened out.  Now the government has said it's ok to have "how many" immigrants COME ON INTO THE LAND OF PLENTY!  When my 70 some year old neighbor can't get her meds because they are 300 dollars something is wrong with the picture.  When there are tons of homeless people (and don't tell me it's because they're all on drugs, and lazy because MANY are just out of luck finding jobs) so we are going to do what with the poor flocking across our borders?

Where is this money the US keeps loaning, are they making it at the mint? What the hell??


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## Denise1952 (Nov 22, 2014)

Another thing Bob, I wanted to mention about the folks that need food.  Many here in the US do get foodstamps, but some don't get enough to feed say a family of 5.  But, there are the foodbanks.  I would be ashamed to be a caretaker for a foodbank that is full of nothing but junk, canned foods, pastries, bread, bread, and more bread.  That is what a lot of people donate (or when they think of it, they purchase cans of this or that, or Mac and cheese).  Now true, no one is going to starve, but where the nutrition, meats, vegetables and fruit (at least cans of fruit).

The point again, is that our own citizens aren't being taken care of efficiently, so how can we be taking care of others, share?  Yes, we can share.  But "who" is really doing the sharing?  Is it everyone, or a few folks that truly care about others.  Isn't there something we could provide for those leaving Mexico for example?  Look at the knowledge we possess, can't we help them develop their own resources?  If everyone comes here from Mexico (it could happen) then what happens to Mexico?  Is there no resource in Mexico that could be cultivated?  I'd love to spend my retirement years going down there and helping to get something going on.

I just don't understand why we can't figure a better way, that would benefit the immigrants, as well as help America.  Does anyone want to help America?  Seems most countries would just rather see her sink. Well, stay tuned.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 23, 2014)

Absolutely we should take care of our own..   Stop taking care of the illegals.  They're taking all the food out of our own citizen's mouths... oh... wait..







But we DO take really GOOD care of SOME of our citizens


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## JudyB (Nov 23, 2014)

nwlady said:


> You said it Bob, you haven't seen it "where you live", I have.  I'm going to tell you where I stand and then that's it.  The United States needs to take care of it's "own" issues first, period.




Yep i have said this for YEARS...why doesn't our government, yep the good ol' USA, take care of IT'S OWN* FIRST!!!*  That's all...


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## BobF (Nov 23, 2014)

A better way for whom?    These self invited immigrants that bring nothing with them at all.    They are lucky the US does not do as some countries seem to do.   Nor should any person get free range of restaurants to choose from in any country where they invite themselves into.

Your constant raging about the US and how we treat people makes no  sense at all.   Why does you friend not get her medicine that is so expensive.   What med program is she on if the meds are too expensive and no support?    Seems that even though the US has had a great system for caring for its well to do and the poor, you just don't seem to have any understanding of comparing the US with other countries.   We have done well over many years and compared to other countries with great sharing with the lower income folks.

Did you know that immigrants over the years have recognized that getting free medical care involves with going into the hospital emergency room and asking for help.   Just a anybody can do.   Go in, wait your turn, get examined and help is given.    Free to all that have no money or insurance.   This then becomes the hospitals favor to the poor or illegal immigrants.   Not sure it that system still exists since Obama care became the way we are supposed to run our health.

I personally have used the emergency room for me or my wife's problems.   Get sick on the weekend and nothing else is open to use.

Your posts show up as narrow minded and irrational, to say the least.   As I showed in my last post, I have lived in many parts of this country and not seen these tragedies that you claim to exist.   Your world seems to be very small and not operating like other parts of the country do.   We have had some very good results for very sick people that I know of, like heart transplant for one who had no money at the time of need.   That happens to many each year.   That money came from other sources and not from the governments at all.   Best to keep our system open to all that want to be part of it and not limit it to what some major government agency decides is best for someone.

I  hope you do have a good day and no more from me on your put downs and inconsistent posts.   Your post do not justify others feelings or responses.   I will make comment on departing about your and your posts.   You seem to be on some sort of self interested rampage about something.   Maybe just loving to have an argument with others about the ways they feel.   Non constructive comments are meaningless so I will leave now.   Ramble on if you must.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 23, 2014)

JudyB said:


> Yep i have said this for YEARS...why doesn't our government, yep the good ol' USA, take care of IT'S OWN* FIRST!!!*  That's all...




But we DO...  THe top 1%..  Big Agriculture corporations, Big Oil Companies..  Corporate subsidies..  Tax incentives..... lol!!


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## GeorgiaXplant (Nov 23, 2014)

Ralphy1 said:


> The way he laid it out made sense to me with the opportunities and restrictions.  Something needed to be done to get a handle on this mess and he showed leadership while Congress dithered.  Whether or not he had the authority to act can be left to the courts to decide, but surely you support his decision to act...



The last five Republican presidents issued executive orders granting amnesty. Why is it that it's big news that Latinos who aren't citizens have NOT been granted amnesty, merely three-year green cards?


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## BobF (Nov 23, 2014)

And there is no stopping the poor in the US from finding shelter and food for themselves and their families.   Non what ever that I know of.   Appropriate help means what?   Much of it is from the heart of many folks in shelters and food places they help exist.    We do have government run shelters and food also.   The problem seems to be the better it is run and the freer the help, the more will just step in and accept and the crowds get bigger all the time.   Sitting on their butts and complaining about how difficult it is to get better foods or accommodations.s   The intent should be to help anyone from starving or having no place to sleep.   Not to make life so good they are not energized to go out and find a job.

Now for you lefties and Democrats, that keep posting how evil the Republicans are, you need to check one of your own.    Remember Bill Clinton when he was President.    One of his best programs was for getting the low income and poor out of the shadows and into the working place.    He put helps for those to move into productive lives and had put some limits on how long the government moneys would last and for how much.   During the times of Clinton's ways with the unemployed, the numbers went down a lot.   I doubt if Obama has continued with Clintons ways of encouraging the unemployed to find jobs and earn their own way.   During Clinton's time they found up to three generations of unemployed still sitting on their butts and demanding better care.    Clinton reduce those numbers considerably with his plan of take care of yourself and not depend on government handouts program.

Now we have a very far left person that see great power for the government to control all our lives and how we live.   Sad to see such a selfish plan to replace the self inspired and hard working ways prior to the big government idea being pushed on the US.


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## JudyB (Nov 23, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> But we DO...  THe top 1%..  Big Agriculture corporations, Big Oil Companies..  Corporate subsidies..  Tax incentives..... lol!!



lol  Yeah you're right...silly me!!


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## BobF (Nov 23, 2014)

Well, I can see from the posts lately that most are non thinking, big government thinking, big government handouts to all thinking, so no sense in trying to show that the country is doing well but can not afford to keep on giving so much away.   We really need to cut back on the giveaways and start reducing our 17 trillion debt to where our budgets can handle them without constantly increasing our debts.   Our government give far too much to far too many folks, vote buying tactics I think, and that will eventually bring the US to a big shut down of many things, like it or not.

Why we have folks that can not work with the current, or past, medical systems and get their medicines and doctor visits OK is beyond my ways of thinking.    There are ways to get what is needed without all these political rants that say nothing at all.   Those photo images can likely be found about the Democrats as well.   If you folks have any real information about the government it should be posted equally to both sides.   This one sided stuff is mostly just nonsense and nothing but.

Why can't the person with high cost medicines being taken care of?   No specifics given.    Was it Medicare?    Was it Medicade?   Was it state aid?    Was it private insurance?    Was it something else or none of the above?    Claims and accusations with no justifications means nothing at all.   

If you are really reading my posts you can see that I post in a non political way and reward or challenge folks of any political party.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 23, 2014)

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/high-school/top-10-myths-about-immigration

*Immigrants don't pay taxes.*
Immigrants pay taxes, in the form of income, property, sales, and taxes at the federal and state level. As far as income tax payments go, sources vary in their accounts, but a range of studies find that immigrants pay between $90 and $140 billion a year in federal, state, and local taxes. Undocumented immigrants pay income taxes as well, as evidenced by the Social Security Administration's "suspense file" (taxes that cannot be matched to workers' names and social security numbers), which grew by $20 billion between 1990 and 1998

*Immigrants come here to take welfare.*
 Moreover, the ratio between immigrant use of public benefits and the amount of taxes they pay is consistently favorable to the U.S. In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits. 

*Immigrants send all their money back to their home countries.
*In addition to the consumer spending of immigrant households, immigrants and their businesses contribute $162 billion in tax revenue to U.S. federal, state, and local governments. While it is true that immigrants remit billions of dollars a year to their home countries, this is one of the most targeted and effective forms of direct foreign investment.

*Immigrants take jobs and opportunity away from Americans.
*The largest wave of immigration to the U.S. since the early 1900s coincided with our lowest national unemployment rate and fastest economic growth. Immigrant entrepreneurs create jobs for U.S. and foreign workers, and foreign-born students allow many U.S. graduate programs to keep their doors open. While there has been no comprehensive study done of immigrant-owned businesses, 

*Immigrants are a drain on the U.S. economy.
*During the 1990s, half of all new workers were foreign-born, filling gaps left by native-born workers in both the high- and low-skill ends of the spectrum. Immigrants fill jobs in key sectors, start their own businesses, and contribute to a thriving economy. The net benefit of immigration to the U.S. is nearly $10 billion annually. As Alan Greenspan points out, 70% of immigrants arrive in prime working age. That means we haven't spent a penny on their education, yet they are transplanted into our workforce and will contribute $500 billion toward our social security system over the next 20 years.

*Immigrants don't want to learn English or become Americans.
*Within ten years of arrival, more than 75% of immigrants speak English well; moreover, demand for English classes at the adult level far exceeds supply. 

*Today's immigrants are different than those of 100 years ago.
*The percentage of the U.S. population that is foreign-born now stands at 11.5%; in the early 20th century it was approximately 15%. Similar to accusations about today's immigrants, those of 100 years ago initially often settled in mono-ethnic neighborhoods, spoke their native languages, and built up newspapers and businesses that catered to their fellow émigrés. They also experienced the same types of discrimination that today's immigrants face, and integrated within American culture at a similar rate. If we view history objectively, we remember that every new wave of immigrants has been met with suspicion and doubt and yet, ultimately, every past wave of immigrants has been vindicated and saluted.

*Most immigrants cross the border illegally.
*Around 75% of today's immigrants have legal permanent (immigrant) visas; of the 25% that are undocumented, 40% overstayed temporary (non-immigrant) visas.

*Weak U.S. border enforcement has led to high undocumented immigration.
*From 1986 to 1998, the Border Patrol's budget increased six-fold and the number of agents stationed on our southwest border doubled to 8,500. The Border Patrol also toughened its enforcement strategy, heavily fortifying typical urban entry points and pushing migrants into dangerous desert areas, in hopes of deterring crossings. Instead, the undocumented immigrant population doubled in that timeframe, to 8 million-despite the legalization of nearly 3 million immigrants after the enactment of the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986. Insufficient legal avenues for immigrants to enter the U.S., compared with the number of jobs in need of workers, has significantly contributed to this current conundrum.

*The war on terrorism can be won through immigration restrictions.
*No security expert since September 11th, 2001 has said that restrictive immigration measures would have prevented the terrorist attacks-instead, the key is effective use of good intelligence. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were here on legal visas. Since 9/11, the myriad of measures targeting immigrants in the name of national security have netted no terrorism prosecutions. In fact, several of these measures could have the opposite effect and actually make us less safe, as targeted communities of immigrants are afraid to come forward with information.


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## BobF (Nov 23, 2014)

_*Weak U.S. border enforcement has led to high undocumented immigration.
*__From 1986 to  1998, the Border Patrol's budget increased six-fold and the number of  agents stationed on our southwest border doubled to 8,500. The Border  Patrol also toughened its enforcement strategy, heavily fortifying  typical urban entry points and pushing migrants into dangerous desert  areas, in hopes of deterring crossings. Instead, the undocumented  immigrant population doubled in that timeframe, to 8 million-despite the  legalization of nearly 3 million immigrants after the enactment of the  Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986. Insufficient legal avenues  for immigrants to enter the U.S., compared with the number of jobs in  need of workers, has significantly contributed to this current  conundrum._
...............................
Most of the post above has nothing to do with this thread at all.  Only this one item is relevant.    No one I hear is against the legal immigrant system at all.   What is the concern for most is the illegal immigrants that come here to raise their families, work off record jobs for the wages they can get.   Put in false tax records and claim many children to end any tax withholding.   Plenty of scamming going on with the illegal immigrants.   These are the constant things going on that needs to be stopped.   While cheating the governments these folks also use the medical system by going into hospital emergency rooms, going to schools, driving on our roads, and never paying any taxes.

They are here and we are not going to send them back.   But to stop more millions from coming over we need to really shut down our border across the continent.   Not just is some  places like southern California, or places in Texas and Arizona.    We need to shut all access off to be fair to the legal and taxpaying citizens that come from many, if not all, the nations around this world.    Fairness to all is the number one goal of controlling our borders.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 23, 2014)

Border fence...http://theweek.com/article/index/241400/what-would-it-take-to-secure-the-us-mexico-border


"The cost and logistical challenges would be immense. Estimates from Customs and Border Protection suggest a cost of more than $22.4 billion to build a fence along the entire southwestern border, which runs along riverbanks and through remote deserts, marshlands, and hill country. 

On top of that would come ongoing maintenance costs: In 2010 alone, the agency repaired 4,037 breaches in the existing fences. The government would also need to expropriate private land, which would be both expensive and unpopular. 

And the border would still need policing, as illegal immigrants will try to breach, tunnel under, or climb over any fence. It's also possible, some immigration experts say, that ramping up border security could have unintended consequences.

Many illegal immigrants currently cross the border for seasonal work, then go back over to their families in Mexico. Additional border security could halt that ebb and flow, causing many illegal immigrants to choose to stay in the U.S. in perpetuity.

 Advocates of immigration reform argue that since our economy creates a big demand for the low-wage agricultural, factory, restaurant, and service labor that Mexicans provide, the best way to prevent illegal entrants is to create a realistic system that allows people to come and go on temporary work visas. 

"It isn't possible to enforce our way out of our immigration problems," said Benjamin Johnson, executive director of the American Immigration Council."






Some information I was reading about the historical reasons behind all this illegal immigration of refugees fleeing their countries to the US (and other countries), so perhaps we are partly responsible for creating this problem to begin with?...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5596125.html




"The 57,000 children from Central America who have streamed across the U.S.-Mexico border this year were driven in large part by the United States itself. 


While Democrats and Republicans have been pointing fingers at each other, in reality the current wave of migration from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras has its roots in six decades of U.S. policies carried out by members of both parties.


Since the 1950s, the U.S. has sown violence and instability in Central America. Decades of Cold War gamesmanship, together with the relentless global war on drugs, have left a legacy of chaos and brutality in these countries.


In many parts of the region, civil society has given way to lawlessness. It's these conditions the children are escaping."


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## GeorgiaXplant (Nov 23, 2014)




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## BobF (Nov 23, 2014)

*Many illegal immigrants  currently cross the border for seasonal work, then go back over to  their families in Mexico. Additional border security could halt that ebb  and flow, causing many illegal immigrants to choose to stay in the U.S.  in perpetuity.*
..............................
All of us should remember those days.    Many crossed the border and followed crops around the US.   Then they returned to their homes and waited for the next years harvest system.    They were called Braceros.   I remember them well and even dated one of the pretty girls that came along.   Her name was Carmen.    I believe it was due to some political pressure put on the government to end that practice for some reason.    Pretty sad situation now since that Bracero idea was ended.

Why not bring it back so we would not have such a big problem with ILLEGAL immigrants.


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## drifter (Nov 23, 2014)

"They were called Braceros. I remember them well and even dated one of the pretty girls that came along. Her name was Carmen. Why not bring it back so we would not have such a big problem with ILLEGAL immigrants."


Why? You wanting another date?


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## BobF (Nov 23, 2014)

No Drifter, just one of those memories of when I was a lot younger than today.   Once they left the area you never saw that group again.   Besides my wife of over 50 years would not allow me to do so.

Have a nice turkey day with your family.


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## SeaBreeze (May 3, 2015)

Just caught a bit of this on PBS today, for anyone who's interested in the history, here's the video.  http://video.pbs.org/video/1601211894/


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