# Another Plane Crash - Airbus Over French Alps



## SeaBreeze (Mar 24, 2015)

Supposedly there were 150 people on board and a class of school children.  I wonder what's going on with all these plane crashes lately?  They said no contact attempt was made by the pilot.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/24/germanwings-plane-crash_n_6930028.html


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

Been watching this on BBC for a while.  16 schoolkids and their 2 teachers.  No idea of the cause yet.


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## hollydolly (Mar 24, 2015)

I wondered the same as you SB...although Plane travel is supposedly the safest mode of transport, and this particular airline has an excellent track record for safety, there does seem to be an inordinate amount of  plane crashes lately  They have found the remains and the debris of the plane in the Alps now...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ldorf-francois-hollande-Lufthansa-4U9525.html

Sometimes Pilot error is to blame in various ways for example  did anyone see this in the news the other day?

Dozens of  military personnel were injured when an RAF transport plane on its way  to Afghanistan nose-dived 4,400ft after the captain's camera became  lodged alongside the aircraft's joystick.
The   Voyager jet was around five hours into its journey from Brize Norton  to Camp Bastion when the Nikon camera, used by the captain to take  photographs on board, got stuck between the arm rest and the side-stick  controller when his seat moved forward.
In  27 seconds of chaos, the plane lost 4,400ft in altitude, throwing   passengers and crew without seatbelts towards the ceiling, injuring 33  of those on board, while one traumatised passenger was hospitalised with  stress, according to the report into the incident.





Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ikon-camera-joystick-stuck.html#ixzz3VJwFn0Di 

​


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

There have been more crashes lately, but in relation to the number of flights every day it is still much safer than being in a car.


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## oldman (Mar 24, 2015)

I was surprised to learn about this. The Airbus A-320 is a really nice plane that has been a great seller for Airbus and is used for short to medium range flights. Personally, I have never flown or been the pilot of an A-320, but I have flown in them as a passenger. Flying in the mountains during cold conditions, I don't know, there are just too many variable to bring a plane down. Maybe ice on the TCAS sensors, Autopilot failure, just too many things come to mind. Hopefully, they will release the cockpit voice recorder tape (CVR) for the public to hear. Sometimes, the pilot will say what's going on with the plane before the collision.

In the meantime, I will say a prayer for those that lost family and loved ones and pray for safety in the skies.


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## Davey Jones (Mar 24, 2015)

oldman,
This plane that crash the A-320 is 25 years old and,like anything else things wear out. We'll have to wait and see what those black boxes tell us.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 24, 2015)

Note to self..... stay off airplanes..


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Note to self..... stay off airplanes..



You have a much bigger chance of winning the lottery than being in a plane crash.  And you are much more likely to die in a car crash.  Or get struck by lightning.  I don't worry one bit about being in a plane crash although I do as I'm told and find out where the nearest exit is.

I was on 10 planes last year.  Still here.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 24, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> You have a much bigger chance of winning the lottery than being in a plane crash.  And you are much more likely to die in a car crash.  Or get struck by lightning.  I don't worry one bit about being in a plane crash although I do as I'm told and find out where the nearest exit is.
> 
> I was on 10 planes last year.  Still here.



However, the survivability of a car crash is much greater...


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> However, the survivability of a car crash is much greater...



There is a 0.00001% chance your plane will crash.  Chances of surviving your next flight: *99.9999815%.    **Not worried.  *


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## Don M. (Mar 24, 2015)

The initial reports about this crash seem eerily similar to the Malaysian airliner disappearance last year.  With all the safety features in today's airliners, I cannot understand how a airliner can just fly into "oblivion", without multiple emergency transmissions from the crew, etc.  It's far too early to know what happened, but something sure doesn't sound right based upon the reports so far.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

I like this one as well:

"If you take one flight a day, you would on average need to fly every day for 55,000 years before being involved in a fatal crash," M.I.T's Sloan School Statistician Arnold Barnett told ABC News.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

Don M. said:


> The initial reports about this crash seem eerily similar to the Malaysian airliner disappearance last year.  With all the safety features in today's airliners, I cannot understand how a airliner can just fly into "oblivion", without multiple emergency transmissions from the crew, etc.  It's far too early to know what happened, but something sure doesn't sound right based upon the reports so far.



No, this has experts baffled.  No Mayday call.  They found one of the black boxes.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 24, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I like this one as well:
> 
> "If you take one flight a day, you would on average need to fly every day for 55,000 years before being involved in a fatal crash," M.I.T's Sloan School Statistician Arnold Barnett told ABC News.



Tell that to the families of the folks on those planes..


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Tell that to the families of the folks on those planes..



Not really fair, QS.  I was replying to your comment that you wouldn't fly (because you fear you'd crash). 

I have huge sympathy for those families.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 24, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Not really fair, QS.  I was replying to your comment that you wouldn't fly (because you fear you'd crash).
> 
> I have huge sympathy for those families.



I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't.   What I meant was that sure.. the number of deaths by plane are lower that that of car crashes.. but the large amount of people killed at one time and the absolute near insurvivability of it makes the fact that if you are in that one in a million flights that crashes.. you are going to die.. no if ands or buts..


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## oakapple (Mar 24, 2015)

I always think that although a car crash is far and away much more likely, you would only have seconds to realise what happened, whereas you have several minutes or more of total terror as the plane goes down.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't.   What I meant was that sure.. the number of deaths by plane are lower that that of car crashes.. but the large amount of people killed at one time and the absolute near insurvivability of it makes the fact that if you are in that one in a million flights that crashes.. you are going to die.. no if ands or buts..



Not true.

More than *95 percent* of the airplane passengers involved in a crash survive, according to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).


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## hollydolly (Mar 24, 2015)

oakapple said:


> I always think that although a car crash is far and away much more likely, you would only have seconds to realise what happened, whereas you have several minutes or more of total terror as the plane goes down.



...and in this particular plane crash apparently it was losing height for a whole 8 minutes...that's a horribly long time to know that you're going to crash , I can't even begin to imagine the terror the passengers ( mainly children) must have felt, God bless their souls.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> ...and in this particular plane crash apparently it was losing height for a whole 8 minutes...that's a horribly long time to know that you're going to crash , I can't even begin to imagine the terror the passengers ( mainly children) must have felt, God bless their souls.



Me either!  Can't even imagine the horror of knowing.


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## Kadee (Mar 24, 2015)

Just heard on our TV two Australians were on the plane
Very sad for all the families involved


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## Don M. (Mar 24, 2015)

I've got a bad feeling about this crash.  The plane appears to have gone into a long, and steady descent, with no apparent communications with the crew.  That tells me that they were not able to continue piloting this aircraft.  It's probably to early to speculate about this being a "hostile" act...but nothing else seems to make sense.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

Don M. said:


> I've got a bad feeling about this crash.  The plane appears to have gone into a long, and steady descent, with no apparent communications with the crew.  That tells me that they were not able to continue piloting this aircraft.  It's probably to early to speculate about this being a "hostile" act...but nothing else seems to make sense.



It is strange the pilots didn't report what was happening, but they speculate it probably wasn't a hostile act.  It definitely didn't fall like a bomb had exploded.


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## Don M. (Mar 24, 2015)

I doubt that a bomb was involved...the plane descended in far too orderly a fashion.  I just cannot visualize a crew being unable to correct such a descent....unless they were no longer able to act.  This will get Very Interesting.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 24, 2015)

Don M. said:


> I doubt that a bomb was involved...the plane descended in far too orderly a fashion.  I just cannot visualize a crew being unable to correct such a descent....unless they were no longer able to act.  This will get Very Interesting.



There have been planes who descended rapidly for whatever reason and recovered.  I've watched a lot of the Air Crash Investigation programmes that explain how they figure out the reasons for a crash or near crash.  And rapid descent has occurred on a couple of them, but I can't recall the reasons now.


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## Davey Jones (Mar 24, 2015)

Lets not forget the terrorist dream to bring down an airliner.


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## Falcon (Mar 24, 2015)

Yes Davey, And THAT could happen ANYWHERE in today's world.


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## Don M. (Mar 24, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> There have been planes who descended rapidly for whatever reason and recovered.  I've watched a lot of the Air Crash Investigation programmes that explain how they figure out the reasons for a crash or near crash.  And rapid descent has occurred on a couple of them, but I can't recall the reasons now.



Generally, the reason for a rapid descent is a sudden loss of cabin pressure at high altitude.  In that event, the oxygen masks are supposed to deploy...both for the cabin crew, and the passengers.  There have been a few instances of this happening, over the years.  I remember a situation, several years ago, where there was a sudden crack in the fuselage, and they had to get the airplane down to low altitude quickly when the cabin leak occurred.  If/when this happens, there is naturally a short period of panic, as everyone puts on their masks...but very quickly the pilots regain control, and radio for help and prepare to land at the closest airport.  In this case, there appears to have been No communications, and that makes me wonder if the pilots were unable...for reasons yet to be determined...to react in a normal fashion.


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## Georgia Lady (Mar 24, 2015)

I have stopped several opportunities lately because I am afraid to fly.  All these plane crashes give me nightmares.


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## Mike (Mar 24, 2015)

8 minutes from loss of control, or from start
of descent to impact, and no radio messages!

This is sinister, I think.

Mike.


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## JustQuinn (Mar 24, 2015)

if is was  an  act of  terrorism I find it  strange that  no one has claimed responsibility


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## hollydolly (Mar 25, 2015)

It's being reported this morning that the Plane had been grounded just 24 hours prior due to technical faults..

from the Mail this morning...

German reports suggest the aircraft had  been grounded just 24 hours before it departed Barcelona for Dusseldorf.  The plane had suffered technical issues, including a landing gear  problem.

Pressure will be put  on owner Germanwings to explain why the plane was allowed to  fly. Urgent safety checks are now being carried out on other A320s,  which are popular with budget airlines. Meanwhile,  passengers were left stranded at Heathrow, Stansted and Manchester  after several Germanwings crews - including pilots - refused to work  following the accident yesterday over safety fears.
Experts  said Flight 4U 9525's rate of descent did not suggest it had simply  fallen out of the sky – prompting speculation that the pilots may have  suddenly fallen unconscious. As the French authorities appeared to rule  out terrorism, it also emerged that:


Five years ago two pilots from the same Germanwings airline nearly passed on landing in Cologne. Contaminated air was suspected;
It  is the third serious incident involving the Airbus 'family' in six  months – two of them fatal crashes that have left more than 300 dead;
A  safety warning was issued last November after a sister plane of Flight  4U 9525 went into a dive over Spain, falling at 4,000ft a minute before  the pilot regained control.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hollande-Lufthansa-4U9525.html#ixzz3VNce2zEN 

​


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## oldman (Mar 25, 2015)

Davey Jones said:


> oldman,
> This plane that crash the A-320 is 25 years old and,like anything else things wear out. We'll have to wait and see what those black boxes tell us.



Actually, age of the aircraft has very little to do with a plane crash. Airlines replace planes not because of age, in a sense, but because they start to look old and shoddy, especially on the inside and also because of newer technology with new aircraft. If proper maintenance is done on a timely basis, it is possible for a plane to fly forever, but who wants to fly in an outdated airplane? Not to mention that every time there is a crash and it is found to be caused by a mechanical problem, the manufacturers install a new sensor or transponder or whatever is needed to prevent a similar crash. To outfit an older plane with today's technology is very expensive. Airlines have been doing a pretty job with keeping their fleets updated and also ordering new planes. 

Example: Look at the plane that went down in the Everglades that was operated by ValueJet. The plane was an old DC-9 and about 27 years old. The crash had nothing to do with the age, but with mishandled cargo. 

This plane (an Airbus A-320) did a 31,000 ft. descent in 9 minutes. To me, I would expect this to be a controlled descent. Could they have gotten hypoxia? I don't know. I have done these types of descents in simulators without any ill-feeling, but things are different in simulators like, compression, decompression and so on. I think they did find the CVR, so maybe we will hear something today.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 25, 2015)

It feels to me like a deliberate thing..  like a pilot suicide.  But of course we will have to wait for the official ruling, if they are able to determine it.


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## Ralphy1 (Mar 25, 2015)

Couldn't he just have hung himself rather than take all those people with him?  Or are you saying he was some kind of terrorist?


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## Ameriscot (Mar 25, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> It feels to me like a deliberate thing..  like a pilot suicide.  But of course we will have to wait for the official ruling, if they are able to determine it.



There actually was an big airplane crash due to the pilot commiting suicide.  Why did he want to take some many innocent people with him?!


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## Ameriscot (Mar 25, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> It feels to me like a deliberate thing..  like a pilot suicide.  But of course we will have to wait for the official ruling, if they are able to determine it.



I know the NTSB doesn't give up until they find the reason. I'm sure the Europeans are the same.  If they have both black boxes they should be able to figure it out.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 25, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Couldn't he just have hung himself rather than take all those people with him?  Or are you saying he was some kind of terrorist?



I understand he had been flying that airline for years.. I think I would lean more toward thinking there could have been some mental illness..  but in this day and age..terrorism is always on everyone's mind.   I haven't googled.. but what is the history of this pilot and co-pilot?  Has anything been put out there?


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## oldman (Mar 25, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> There actually was an big airplane crash due to the pilot committing suicide.  Why did he want to take some many innocent people with him?!



I believe that was an Arabian airline. I would hate to think that it was a pilot suicide. At United, if you even get caught joking about that, you are terminated, like right NOW! Crew members are like anyone else, there are certain things that can be mentioned or spoken about in a serious tone, but not joked or made in a threatening manner. Makes sense, right?


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## Ameriscot (Mar 25, 2015)

oldman said:


> I believe that was an Arabian airline. I would hate to think that it was a pilot suicide. At United, if you even get caught joking about that, you are terminated, like right NOW! Crew members are like anyone else, there are certain things that can be mentioned or spoken about in a serious tone, but not joked or made in a threatening manner. Makes sense, right?



Yes, I think you're right.  In one episode of the air crash programme there was an Egyptian(?) airline and the co-pilot was afraid to say anything to the pilot who was doing all the wrong things.  The culture prohibited him disagreeing with or correcting a superior.  The plane crashed and all died, even though the suggestions the co-pilot made were correct, but ignored by the pilot.


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## oldman (Mar 25, 2015)

AS:  This was the law of the land at one time. No one could question any of the Captain's moves. Today, that has all changed with the CRM program. Crew Resource Management allows for any crew member to speak up, if they believe there is an issue that the Captain may be over-looking or not doing properly. Now that I think of it, maybe it's the Egyptian airline that went into the ocean nose first. 

In my 33 years of flying, I have had three of what I call, close calls with fate caused by mechanical problems. Thankfully, we all made it down and no one even had a scratch. I retired with what we in the business call, "No bent metal."


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## Ameriscot (Mar 25, 2015)

oldman said:


> AS:  This was the law of the land at one time. No one could question any of the Captain's moves. Today, that has all changed with the CRM program. Crew Resource Management allows for any crew member to speak up, if they believe there is an issue that the Captain may be over-looking or not doing properly. Now that I think of it, maybe it's the Egyptian airline that went into the ocean nose first.
> 
> In my 33 years of flying, I have had three of what I call, close calls with fate caused by mechanical problems. Thankfully, we all made it down and no one even had a scratch. I retired with what we in the business call, "No bent metal."



Well done!!  My neighbour is a retired British Airways pilot and I enjoy his stories.

Can't recall where the Egypt air crash was, whether water or land. 

The two stories that stick out in my mind are the one in Toronto around 2007?  Everybody thought there'd be a lot of dead people but everybody was fine!  Then Sully Sullenberger landing perfectly on the water.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 25, 2015)

Don't remember the one in Toronto, but the Miracle on the Hudson is burned into my memory.. What a dramatic landing.

Although my husband used to say that any landing everyone walks away from is a good landing.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 25, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Don't remember the one in Toronto, but the Miracle on the Hudson is burned into my memory.. What a dramatic landing.
> 
> Although my husband used to say that any landing everyone walks away from is a good landing.



The Toronto one was this:  2005  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_358

I remember that one because at the time we were flying into Toronto and then renting a car to drive to Michigan as a new airline had really cheap flights.  

I will never forget the Detroit (1988?) one that crashed right after take off.  Pilot/Co-pilot screw up.  The only survivor was a little girl of 4.


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## Davey Jones (Mar 25, 2015)

Quote:Airline,plane had a strong safety record.
Ya sure tell that to the passengers.


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## Davey Jones (Mar 25, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> There actually was an big airplane crash due to the pilot commiting suicide.  Why did he want to take some many innocent people with him?!




Suicide ???? hmmmmm  good point,maybe that's the answer to this crash.


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## Jackie22 (Mar 25, 2015)

Pilot was locked out of cockpit.....

PARIS — As officials struggled Wednesday to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in.
A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.
“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”
He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”
While the audio seemed to give some insight into the circumstances leading up to the Germanwings crash, it also left many questions unanswered.

more here....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?emc=edit_na_20150325

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?emc=edit_na_20150325


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## WhatInThe (Mar 25, 2015)

Don M. said:


> I've got a bad feeling about this crash.  The plane appears to have gone into a long, and steady descent, with no apparent communications with the crew.  That tells me that they were not able to continue piloting this aircraft.  It's probably to early to speculate about this being a "hostile" act...but nothing else seems to make sense.



This! An 8 minute decent without so much as a mayday???

Then tonight they say the pilot was locked out and supposedly the cockpit flight recorder has the pilot knocking on the cab door trying to get back into the cab???


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 25, 2015)

The other pilot either had a medical emergency, or there was sinister intent?


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## Mike (Mar 26, 2015)

Mike said:


> 8 minutes from loss of control, or from start
> of descent to impact, and no radio messages!
> 
> This is sinister, I think.
> ...




I told you!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32062278

Mike.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

On BBC radio 4 an interviewee said the door was fitted with a keypad and code for the pilot to get back in but these keypads have been known not to work.


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## hollydolly (Mar 26, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> On BBC radio 4 an interviewee said the door was fitted with a keypad and code for the pilot to get back in but these keypads have been known not to work.



Yes however it was reported that one of the officers, and they're not sure which one it was, knocked lightly then harder and harder in a panic, why didn't the other officer let him in is the question that will probably never be answered..


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> Yes however it was reported that one of the officers, and they're not sure which one it was, knocked lightly then harder and harder in a panic, why didn't the other officer let him in is the question that will probably never be answered..



Yes, that's the question.  Suicide, terrorist, heart attack?  There won't be any more on the voice recorder unless the pilot was talking to himself on the way down.


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## Debby (Mar 26, 2015)

I haven't read all of your posts so someone may have already mentioned it but I just read this  on Huffington Post:  

*A newspaper is reporting that the voice recorder indicates that one of the pilots was locked out of the cockpit before a Germanwings jetliner plummeted into a remote Alpine mountainside.*
*The New York Times is citing an investigator it doesn't identify as saying that the audio shows that after an ordinary start to the flight, one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not get back in.*
*The investigator told the newspaper that the pilot began knocking quietly on the door, then became more insistent, saying that eventually: "You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.''

*That could be interpreted as either a heart attack by whomever was in the cockpit and he was unable to open it or terrorism I guess.  That must have been absolutely horrifying for the passengers who were watching this!   This site also has some 'distant' photos of the crash site (no detailed or graphic images) but you can see how hard to get at the crash site is.  Extreme mountainous terrain.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/24/germanwings-crash-southern-france_n_6929996.html?utm_hp_ref=canada


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

Debby, yes it's been posted.  A mystery.  Can you imagine the other pilot banging on the door and the plane starts to plummet!  Terrifying.


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## Debby (Mar 26, 2015)

Thanks Ameriscot.  It's just 6:00 AM here so I've been asleep or busy with the children while you've all been 'talking' here.  

It is horrifying to think of their fear!  Poor, poor people!


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

Debby said:


> Thanks Ameriscot.  It's just 6:00 AM here so I've been asleep or busy with the children while you've all been 'talking' here.
> 
> It is horrifying to think of their fear!  Poor, poor people!



I'm out of sync with many here as well so it takes a while to catch up with what was posted while I was sleeping.  Nearly 10am here.  Our clocks go ahead this weekend.

Can't even imagine what it's like knowing the end is minutes away.


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## oldman (Mar 26, 2015)

I find this report very unsettling. I hope what is being conveyed as a possible pilot suicide isn't so. Like I stated earlier, it seemed to be a controlled descent, so it was suspicious in nature. It may have been a heart attack, blood clot or other health issue. However, that doesn't answer the question as to why the other pilot could not open the door. The French and Germans will share their information after the investigation is complete. If this was an Italian airline and investigation, we may have never known the truth. They have a history of not being so forth-coming.

As for the keypads; the codes can be changed. But what bothers me the most is why was there only one pilot left alone in the cockpit? It is common knowledge that most airlines require two people in the cockpit at all times. When one of the pilots must leave the cockpit, normally, the Purser will take the empty seat. Heck, some foreign airlines use two doors with cameras. A very advanced system.

This will be interesting to hear the investigation findings.


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## Bee (Mar 26, 2015)

Could some one please tell me why it is that out of all the news reports I have read this morning, they have _*all*_ quoted The New York Times and the anonymous official................I would much rather wait for the official reports from named investigators than put too much store by all this speculation.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

oldman said:


> I find this report very unsettling. I hope what is being conveyed as a possible pilot suicide isn't so. Like I stated earlier, it seemed to be a controlled descent, so it was suspicious in nature. It may have been a heart attack, blood clot or other health issue. However, that doesn't answer the question as to why the other pilot could not open the door. The French and Germans will share their information after the investigation is complete. If this was an Italian airline and investigation, we may have never known the truth. They have a history of not being so forth-coming.
> 
> As for the keypads; the codes can be changed. But what bothers me the most is why was there only one pilot left alone in the cockpit? It is common knowledge that most airlines require two people in the cockpit at all times. When one of the pilots must leave the cockpit, normally, the Purser will take the empty seat. Heck, some foreign airlines use two doors with cameras. A very advanced system.
> 
> This will be interesting to hear the investigation findings.



Apparently on these smaller aircrafts only two people are in the cockpit.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

It was deliberate - the 28 year old co-pilot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587


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## Mike (Mar 26, 2015)

According to the radio, when they reached altitude, the Pilot
had to go to the Bathroom, when he came back he couldn't
get back into the cockpit, the experts that checked the Black
Box, reported that they could hear breathing on the voice recorder,
so the co-pilot was alive during the descent and in control of the
plane.

Mike.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

And the co-pilot was breathing normally - not having a medical issue and apparently not stressed.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

On the voice recorder they don't hear screams from passengers until the very last moment.  So the passengers were not experiencing terror for 8 minutes.


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## oldman (Mar 26, 2015)

WOW! This is horrible. I thought the initial report of the descent was normal and I started getting a creepy feeling that something wasn't right. I don't know why that airline did not require a F/A to go into the cockpit when the one pilot left. Every airline that I know requires at least two people in the cockpit at all times. When I flew and one of us left the cockpit, I always called the Purser to come in and sit in the empty seat. I am so saddened and sorry for those unfortunate passengers that were just looking forward to a nice flight.

Something in the industry will change because of this. Maybe it will now be a requirement to have at least two people in the cockpit, instead of "strongly suggested." Normally, when the FAA, the UK CAA or the French Aviation Authority makes a rule, other nations will follow.


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## Jackie22 (Mar 26, 2015)

This is beyond sad, the airlines will now be faced with having to screen for mental instability.


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## hollydolly (Mar 26, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> It was deliberate - the 28 year old co-pilot.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587




Oh Dear God!!!


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 26, 2015)

That is terrible news Ameriscot.   Late last night before I turned off the radio, I heard them saying that the pilot was deliberately locked out by the co-pilot, and the handle on the door had to be positioned a certain way to do so.  I thought right away that this was another act of real terrorism.  My heart goes out to the families of all who so senselessly lost their lives, I can't imagine their grief.


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## oldman (Mar 26, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> This is beyond sad, the airlines will now be faced with having to screen for mental instability.



The U.S. airlines already do this.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

oldman said:


> The U.S. airlines already do this.



I think all airlines do this.  At the press conference the airline said he passed all the examinations and appeared to be a perfectly normal guy who loved to fly.  People in the flight club he belonged to also said he seemed normal.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

SeaBreeze said:


> That is terrible news Ameriscot.   Late last night before I turned off the radio, I heard them saying that the pilot was deliberately locked out by the co-pilot, and the handle on the door had to be positioned a certain way to do so.  I thought right away that this was another act of real terrorism.  My heart goes out to the families of all who so senselessly lost their lives, I can't imagine their grief.



For it to be intentional and not an accident will fill the families with fury as well as their overwhelming grief.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

oldman said:


> WOW! This is horrible. I thought the initial report of the descent was normal and I started getting a creepy feeling that something wasn't right. I don't know why that airline did not require a F/A to go into the cockpit when the one pilot left. Every airline that I know requires at least two people in the cockpit at all times. When I flew and one of us left the cockpit, I always called the Purser to come in and sit in the empty seat. I am so saddened and sorry for those unfortunate passengers that were just looking forward to a nice flight.
> 
> Something in the industry will change because of this. Maybe it will now be a requirement to have at least two people in the cockpit, instead of "strongly suggested." Normally, when the FAA, the UK CAA or the French Aviation Authority makes a rule, other nations will follow.



Yes, they are saying on the news that this will most likely become a requirement now for all airlines.


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## QuickSilver (Mar 26, 2015)

I've heard that most airlines do NOT allow a single person in the cockpit..  If a pilot has to use the restroom a flight attendant will join the co-pilot..  however, not sure what a flight attendant could have done.    I also thought that cockpits had a keypad entry lock on the outside which would have allowed the pilot to get back in.  Although I think that can be disabled manually from inside.  Not sure...but  Oldman can certainly tell us.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I've heard that most airlines do NOT allow a single person in the cockpit..  If a pilot has to use the restroom a flight attendant will join the co-pilot..  however, not sure what a flight attendant could have done.    I also thought that cockpits had a keypad entry lock on the outside which would have allowed the pilot to get back in.  Although I think that can be disabled manually from inside.  Not sure...but  Oldman can certainly tell us.



Apparently this airline did not require as well as some other airlines.  This plane also had the keypad but the co-pilot managed to lock him out.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 26, 2015)

It's not law with UK airlines for two staff in the cockpit.  However, one airline, Easyjet, has announced it will be a requirement starting from tomorrow. 
Easyjet is a budget airline that flies to Europe and North Africa. So all short flights.


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## oakapple (Mar 26, 2015)

How terrible this is.It's bad enough for the families as it is, by knowing it was deliberate, it makes it even worse.


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## hollydolly (Mar 26, 2015)

oakapple said:


> How terrible this is.It's bad enough for the families as it is, by knowing it was deliberate, it makes it even worse.



...and who can't help but feel great pity for the co-pilot's parents who now have found themselves not only mourning the death of their son, but to all intents and speculation that he is also a mass murderer. ..and currently they are in a the dreadful position in their grief of being questioned intently by the Police...


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## Phantom (Mar 26, 2015)

[h=2]The co-pilot of the Germanwings Airbus was a convert to Islam[/h]   

 









​

According to Michael Mannheimer, a writer for German PI-News, Germany now has its own 9/11, thanks to the convert to Islam, Andreas Lubitz.

Translation from German:

_All evidence indicates that the copilot of Airbus machine in his six-months break during his training as a pilot in Germanwings, converted to Islam and subsequently either by the order of "radical", ie. devout Muslims , or received the order from the book of terror, the Quran, on his own accord decided to carry out this mass murder. As a radical mosque in Bremen is in the center of the investigation, in which the convert was staying often, it can be assumed that he - as Mohammed Atta, in the attack against New York - received his instructions directly from the immediate vicinity of the mosque. 

Converts are the most important weapon of Islam. Because their resume do not suggests that they often are particularly violent Muslims. Thus Germany now has its own 9/11, but in a reduced form. And so it is clear that Islam is a terrorist organization that are in accordance with §129a of the Criminal Code to prohibit it and to investigate its followers. But nothing will happen. One can bet that the apologists (media, politics, "Islamic Scholars") will agree to assign this an act of a "mentally unstable" man, and you can bet that now, once again the mantra of how supposedly peaceful Islam is will continue. And worse still, the attacks by the left against those who have always warned against Islam, will be angrier and merciless. 

For now the German Islam supporters like never before have their backs against the wall. 

Michael Mannheimer, 26.3.2015_

The Daily Mail today writes:

_Police investigating the Germanwings crash said tonight they had made a 'significant discovery' at the home of pilot Andreas Lubitz, who deliberately ploughed the Airbus A320 into the French Alps.

Officers refused to reveal details of the potential breakthrough but said it was not a suicide note._

Hopefully we'll know in a few days if this article is accurate


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## lovemylittleboy (Mar 26, 2015)

It is just sad. And I wonder why so many people are turning to Islam , against their own country. And even some going to Isis. All those people gone, I hope none suffered.


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## Don M. (Mar 26, 2015)

There has to be a reason why this pilot did this....and if he converted to Islam, and decided to become a Martyr, this would certainly seem plausible.  With every passing day, it seems that more and more atrocities are being committed by these radicals, and the gullible they are convincing to convert.  If these senseless acts continue, we may find ourselves thrown back into the days of the Crusades.  

I think it is a rule, with US airlines, that there must always be two people in the cockpit...or one of the inflight crew must stand by the door if one of the pilots needs to take a bathroom break.  After this tragedy, I would expect the other nations airline companies to adopt a similar rule.  It seems that no one can be fully trusted, anymore.


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## oldman (Mar 27, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I've heard that most airlines do NOT allow a single person in the cockpit..  If a pilot has to use the restroom a flight attendant will join the co-pilot..  however, not sure what a flight attendant could have done.    I also thought that cockpits had a keypad entry lock on the outside which would have allowed the pilot to get back in.  Although I think that can be disabled manually from inside.  Not sure...but  Oldman can certainly tell us.



This site pretty well explains all there is to know about cockpit doors with a few differences. Focus on the five- twenty minutes. 

http://www.dw.de/how-does-a-cockpit-door-work/a-18343317


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## Ameriscot (Mar 27, 2015)

BBC news says the co-pilot suffered from serious depression but hid it from the airline.  He had sick note to give to his employer on the day of the flight but had ripped it up.  It was found in his flat.  

They said this act was not political or religious.  There was no mention of him converting to Islam and the rumour was simply a result of wanting to blame everything on Muslims.


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## Warrigal (Mar 27, 2015)

I wouldn't take too much notice of Michael Mannheimer. He's a rabid anti-Islamist.
Listen to him speak at an anti-Islam rally.
Remind you of anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGh2zjsi8wI


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## oldman (Mar 27, 2015)

I stayed awake last night thinking (dwelling) on this casualty. It actually made me feel, I don't know how to explain it, but maybe just confused and messed up. For most of us pilots and former pilots, we all loved to fly. It is what we always felt we were born to do. Of course, there are a few schmucks that look at flying as just a job, but 98% of us thought it was like being paid really well for something we love or loved to do. Most every pilot that I have known and flown with had the passion. It isn't a 9-5 job. We all took safety really seriously and in times when we may have been stressed while flying because of home issues or whatever, we would gladly turn the the controls over to the other pilot. No one ever mentioned anything about flying when they thought they shouldn't have been. Distractions can and do cause accidents. I am so over-come by this tragedy that it is so unbearable to believe that someone would take so many innocent lives with him. Why not just stab yourself in the chest or put a bullet in your brain. Why screw up so many innocent lives? It is bad enough when an airplane goes down by mechanical or pilot error. This totally consumes me at the moment, but will go away when I can move on. It is crazy how this can affect some people that weren't even involved in it. I feel terrible for everyone, including the airline. 

Thanks for letting me vent.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 27, 2015)

Go ahead and vent, Oldman.  I know how you feel.  Why did he have to murder these people because _he_ was depressed?!  What a waste of so many innocent lives. 

Apparently he took 6 months off with depression already in his short career, so I don't understand why the airline didn't keep a close eye on him.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 27, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> I wouldn't take too much notice of Michael Mannheimer. He's a rabid anti-Islamist.
> Listen to him speak at an anti-Islam rally.
> Remind you of anyone?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGh2zjsi8wI



Yep, just replace the word Muslim with Jews, and who have you got?


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## WhatInThe (Mar 27, 2015)

If this guy was suicidal why not rent a small single prop plane or Porsche and slam it into a wall. Something isn't passing the smell test here. Now they're saying it was known he was depressed. But to kill 150 people? There are suicidal people that wouldn't mind taking a few with them but 150 for no reason? Even some of these murder-suicides are nothing but motivation for suicide for the perpetrator that's why a lot of them stop at who was in the house. Maybe he considered the plane his house?


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## Ameriscot (Mar 27, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> If this guy was suicidal why not rent a small single prop plane or Porsche and slam it into a wall. Something isn't passing the smell test here. Now they're saying it was known he was depressed. But to kill 150 people? There are suicidal people that wouldn't mind taking a few with them but 150 for no reason? Even some of these murder-suicides are nothing but motivation for suicide for the perpetrator that's why a lot of them stop at who was in the house. Maybe he considered the plane his house?



This article says at least 8 pilots have done the same since 1976 but it is getting more and more rare.  And only a few of these 8 pilots had passengers. 

http://www.vox.com/2015/3/26/8294971/pilot-suicide-crash


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## Misty (Mar 27, 2015)

Sources told the German tabloid Bild, Lubitz received psychiatric treatment for one and a half years while in flight school, and was forced to repeat some classes because of a struggle with depression.

He recently broke up with his girlfriend of seven years, who he had been engaged to at one time,  and were living together.


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## Ameriscot (Mar 27, 2015)

Misty said:


> Sources told the German tabloid Bild, Lubitz received psychiatric treatment for one and a half years while in flight school, and was forced to repeat some classes because of a struggle with depression.
> 
> He recently broke up with his girlfriend of seven years, who he had been engaged to at one time,  and were living together.



Hadn't heard about the girlfriend except that they said they lived together in Dusseldorf.  He was also off for 6 months on sick leave with depression.


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## Vivjen (Mar 27, 2015)

IMO; all this speculation about depression is extremely damaging, and has not been confirmed by anybody.
all his colleagues have said that he acted perfectly normally beforehand, and I think this makes anybody who has or has had depression less likely to seek help.
if that happens, heaven help us all....


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## Ameriscot (Mar 27, 2015)

Vivjen said:


> IMO; all this speculation about depression is extremely damaging, and has not been confirmed by anybody.
> all his colleagues have said that he acted perfectly normally beforehand, and I think this makes anybody who has or has had depression less likely to seek help.
> if that happens, heaven help us all....



Yes, as stated here:
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-pilot-andreas-lubitz-mental-health?CMP=fb_gu


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## oakapple (Mar 27, 2015)

It will all come out eventually, however the German authorities seem to be finding things out very quickly and not trying to hide anything. It seems like a tragic case of a depressed person taking everyone with him.Who knows what he thought, he was not acting rationally.He may have been angry with the world, or even thought it would be better for all the people to die.Depressed people rarely act as if they are depressed, so at the time he appeared normal.I do feel sorry for all his family, as well as all the other families, as actually, they have the bigger burden to carry.


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## lovemylittleboy (Mar 27, 2015)

yeah your are right. But if they want to kill themselves why do they have to take people with them?  People in these kind of jobs should be monitored all the time. And true depressed people rarely show it....look at Robin Williams for example. Those who do show they are depressed will obviously already be in treatment , prayerfully , anyway. It is just so so sad for the all the people on board that their families are so in need of prayer as the family of the pilot. We need to pray for them to trust God for answers and understanding. There is just no words to espress.


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## SeaBreeze (Mar 27, 2015)

He may not have planned the suicide beforehand, or taking that plane down.  It might have just been a spur of the moment thing that just overcame him and he acted on it.


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## lovemylittleboy (Mar 27, 2015)

Well they said they found a letter in his trash from a Dr visit or someone saying "he is not fit" now they don't know what they meant by not fit yet. They were thinking a sickness or mental illness. It is sad though. I wonder why he couldn't reach out to a family member or a Dr or a Friend. Ah, I guess it is hind sight now....all we can do is pray for all the families involved. But he purposely locked the other pilot out. We will never know so I guess it best we not guess....just prayraying:


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## Misty (Mar 30, 2015)

*Girlfriend of Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz is 'expecting his child'*

*Unnamed partner of Andreas Lubitz is pregnant with his child, according to    reports*


   By Gregory Walton, Krefeld

   3:38PM BST 29 Mar 2015

   Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz was  expecting a baby with his teacher girlfriend before the air crash which  killed him and 149 others, it has been claimed. 

Reports in the German press suggest that Lubitz's unnamed partner had become pregnant by him in recent months. 

*Bild am Sonntag*, the nation's best-selling Sunday paper, said that the woman had broken the news to her students within the past few weeks. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ubitz-girlfriend-was-expecting-his-child.html


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## AZ Jim (Mar 30, 2015)

I don't care a damn thing about the thoughtless bastard who took 149 innocent people with him.


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## oldman (Mar 30, 2015)

I lost a night's sleep over this accident trying to come up with some type of reasonable explanation as to why and/or how someone can do this to 149 other totally innocent people. It just didn't effect those people and their immediate families, but also aunts, uncles, grandmas, grandpas, cousins, moms, dads and friends and maybe even some that I missed. 

I finally decided that the best explanation was a phrase that we use in drug and alcohol rehab: "When you choose your actions, you also choose your consequences." That still doesn't answer the question why, but it does help to understand how he was able to do it. He never considered the consequences. He probably compartmentalized and that allowed him the ability to do this heinous act. It's like it was all about him. Just a very callous, selfish act by a narcissist and perhaps psychopath.


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## Kadee (Mar 30, 2015)

oldman said:


> I lost a night's sleep over this accident trying to come up with some type of reasonable explanation as to why and/or how someone can do this to 149 other totally innocent people. It just didn't effect those people and their immediate families, but also aunts, uncles, grandmas, grandpas, cousins, moms, dads and friends and maybe even some that I missed.
> 
> I finally decided that the best explanation was a phrase that we use in drug and alcohol rehab: "When you choose your actions, you also choose your consequences." That still doesn't answer the question why, but it does help to understand how he was able to do it. He never considered the consequences. He probably compartmentalized and that allowed him the ability to do this heinous act. It's like it was all about him. Just a very callous, selfish act by a narcissist and perhaps psychopath.[/
> 
> Along with all the other totally innocent men,women and children there were two Aussies on the plane...


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## Kadee (Mar 30, 2015)

Kadee46 said:


> oldman said:
> 
> 
> > I lost a night's sleep over this accident trying to come up with some type of reasonable explanation as to why and/or how someone can do this to 149 other totally innocent people. It just didn't effect those people and their immediate families, but also aunts, uncles, grandmas, grandpas, cousins, moms, dads and friends and maybe even some that I missed.
> ...


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## WhatInThe (Apr 3, 2015)

This was apparently a pretty well planned suicide/event. The pilot researched/searched cabin security and suicide on computer.

http://www.newsnation.in/article/74549-germanwings-pilot-searched-online-suicide-cockpit-doors.html

A "suicidal" person had to research suicide? A narcissistic selfish pos extreme because they would looking for a "grand" finale.

Also apparently he was determined overriding the auto pilot and accelerating until the end.

http://wtop.com/europe/2015/04/french-investigators-co-pilot-accelerated-plane-on-descent/

I'm still puzzled by a years long suicidal depressed person having to research suicide. There are numerous ways to go without taking a 149 people with you. That doesn't pass the smell test for me. You also have to have some basic understanding of physics, mechanics along with some misc medical knowledge to be a pilot and this guy had to research suicide? Also one must wonder with a history of depression one must wonder how treatment and medication affected his behavior/thinking.


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## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

Maybe it took him a year to finalize his plan on HOW he was going to do it.


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## Don M. (Apr 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Maybe it took him a year to finalize his plan on HOW he was going to do it.



That's kind of my thoughts, too.  This lunatic didn't just act spontaneously, he had this in mind for quite some time...just looking for the right circumstances to act on his warped decision.  Unfortunately, we will never know what was going on in his twisted mind, but hopefully the airlines will take a more proactive stance on their pilots mental health.  For now, I just hope all airlines make it a standard practice that there Always be a 2nd person in the cockpit.


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## WhatInThe (May 6, 2015)

The pilot had apparently "practiced" his suicide.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/05/06/germanwings-pilot-practiced-descent.html


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