# Drinking Culture



## Warrigal (Nov 19, 2013)

Binge drinking is very problematic in OZ with a heavy toll on young people. The legal drinking age is 18 but alcohol is fairly easily available at younger ages because the drinking culture is so widespread.

Drinking to get drunk is the goal of many young Australians but not restricted to the young. We are seeing a lot of mindless alcohol fuelled violence in the cities and a number of innocents have died from random unprovoked king hits from aggressive drunks.

Alcohol licences are largely unrestricted with hours of service being up to 22 hours per day.

This article is calling for change. What are things like in the US with regards to this socially sanctioned drug?



> *One in eight deaths of young Australians attributable to alcohol: National Council on Drugs report*
> 
> Updated     44 minutes ago
> 
> ...


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## grannyjo (Nov 19, 2013)

I cannot understand why hotels/clubs need to stay open for such long hours.  Newcastle NSW brought in the restricted hours,  and it reduced the alcohol related violence by quite a remarkable degree.  Maybe we have to bring back the 6 o'clock "swill".  Remember that from my very much younger days. lol  The drunks were off the street - home in bed and well asleep,  way before the younger generation now seem to go out for their entertainment.  I've heard young folks say that's there's "no point" in going out before 10pm - nothing happening.  Our local town is becoming a bit more pro-active,  those who are drunk,  who are given their marching orders,  and who don't leave are now slapped with a $Au550 fine.  That's only after a few "king hits" and/or extreme violence occured.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 19, 2013)

Told ya's years ago that when they'd beaten down the smokers the Nannynazis would start on banning booze didn't I?  Bwaaahahaha, can't wait.

Seriously though it's always been a bit of a 'hold ya grog' tradition but it's starting far too young now.  The place will be like Moscow the way we're going.  The longer boozing hours seemed a good thing at first because back then beer was the drink of choice and you got full before you got 'full' if you take my meaning.  But now it's high octane stuff being chucked back as quickly as possible and not by working men on their way home but by tiny half grown teenagers still with a brain to pickle. 
 It's insanity writ large.  It's one instance of 'Nannying' I won't argue with if they want to clamp down on drinking times and even on legal drinking age.  I honestly don't care if some local bar owner goes belly up, he can join the dole queue where most of his customers will end up.


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## GDAD (Nov 19, 2013)

*Critical Thinking*​
*At Its Best!*​

​

​
*Woman:*
Do you drink beer?​
*Man:* Yes

*Woman:*
How many beers a day?

*Man:*
Usually about 3

*Woman:*
How much do you pay per beer?

*Man:* $5.00 which includes a tip

(This is where it gets scary !)

*Woman:*
And how long have you been drinking?

*Man:*
About 20 years, I suppose

*Woman:*
So a beer costs $5 and you have 3 beers a day which puts your spending each month at $450. In one year, it would be approximately $5400 �correct?

*Man:*
Correct

*Woman:*
If in 1 year you spend $5400, not accounting for inflation, the past
20 years puts your spending at $108,000, correct?

*Man:*
Correct

*Woman:*
Do you know that if you didn't drink so much beer, that money could have been put in a step-up interest savings account and after accounting​
for compound interest for the past 20 years, you could have now bought a Ferrari?

*Man:*
Do you drink beer?

*Woman:*
No

*Man:*
Where's your Ferrari?​


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## Happyflowerlady (Nov 19, 2013)

Here in the South, we have whole counties where alcohol cannot be sold, and many other places where it is allowed on weekdays, but not allowed on Sundays. Then there are places that are divided on it, and some parts of town allow Sunday sales, and some don't.  
As far as I can see, this doesn't really achieve anything, except it makes drinkers have to go to another county to drink, and then they have to drive home (drunk?) afterwards. So, if they let them buy the beer where they live, they would be able to just take it home and drink it instead. Now, they can either buy it ahead of time, and take it home, or drive elsewhere to drink where it is legal. I am sure it doesn't help the bar owners, since football is a big thing here, and people like to sit in a sports bar, drink, and watch the game; but no one is going to go to the bar and watch the game if they cant also drink their beer.
So, it seems to me, that while some regulation may be necessary, too much regulation doesn't help, and maybe even makes things worse, in some cases.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 19, 2013)

You're spot on with that HFL, but you still have 21 as legal drinking age at least.  Ours are wiping themselves and others out on the roads at 18.  There's been more than one 16 yo caught or killed driving blind drunk too. One standout 'legend' was 14!
Drinking and driving is legal at 18, but nobody seems to be able to stop them doing both at once.
 No law is going to stop idiots, but a curfew on drinking hours might at least put a dent in the all-nighter binge drinking fad that is growing and adding to the carnage on the streets.

The pattern seems to be that they get pre-plastered at home then call a cab so they can rock into the den of choice around 11pm already legless and moronic to impress their mates with their superior state of inebriation.  

The drunken violence is bad enough but the drunk driving is a whole new danger to everyone.  We can avoid the violence by not going to places they frequent at night but we have to share the roads with them.

We've seen recently a few cases of young mothers, complete with kids in the car, over the limit to the point where they could barely stand.  One just a week or so ago wiped out 5 cars of other mother's waiting in line to pick up their kids from school.  This woman was so drunk she didn't notice she'd clipped the other cars in her big 4wd Urban Assault Vehicle.  If she hadn't had the cops called down on her she would have picked her kids up and driven them off in that state!

These were all youngish women, in their 20s, one was around 35 but the exception to the rule.  Those women didn't suddenly find the wonders of booze after the kids were born.  Most would have started out as stupid teenagers cruising the bars at 2am getting as drunk as possible before passing out at the mercy of whatever crowd of fellow drunks was around at the time.  Call me old fashioned but those type of girls just plain disgust me.

It's been said that we need to be looking into why teens are drawn into this life-style and I hope they find an answer because it totally bewilders me, but meanwhile steps need to be taken to make it a damned sight harder for them to do it in public.  If they're all at home plastered then they're only hurting themselves, and it won't be in my home.  Make it illegal to sell any liquor other than beer after 10pm to anyone under 40, that'll bore them out of the bars.

I have no kids or grandkids and it's no skin off my nose what their futures hold as long as they're not in the surrounding traffic when I'm on the road.  But it just seems such a shame to see so many crashing and burning before they've even really lived.
The practice is taking them out of the future work pool, unfortunately it isn't taking them out of the gene pool and there are going to more kids raised by drunks and ain't that just what the world needs?

I like a drink as much as anyone but I simply can't see any upside to getting drunk for the sake of it. WTF is that about??


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## TICA (Nov 20, 2013)

I think you can make the drinking age whatever you want, limit the hours of the bars where it is sold - won't make a speck of difference.   If some kids want to drink, they'll find a way just like we did as underage kids.   I can remember someone showing up at the local hang out spot called the wall with bag full of cheap wine or a case of quarts of beer.  They'd pay an older dude to get it for them and then we'd hang out at the wall, drinking it.   I guess that you'd call that binge drinking as you did it when it was available.  We weren't alone, I'm sure that same game was going on all over the world.    As for drinking and driving, that is terrible but the laws are trying to deal with it.  Back in the day, it was nothing to go out for the evening at the bar, then drive home.  It's a wonder there weren't more deaths that there was.  Would I do that now?  Not a chance, I don't even have a wine with dinner when I'm out if I'm responsible for driving home.

I guess my point is that we tend to forget how we behaved as teenagers experimenting with booze.     Today, the effects the booze and/or drugs is in the public eye a whole lot more than in my day, so you would think the youngsters would be smarter about it.  I wish they were, there is no excuse for driving under the influence of anything and to do that with children in the car is just downright sad.


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## Davey Jones (Nov 20, 2013)

grannyjo said:


> I cannot understand why hotels/clubs need to stay open for such long hours.
> 
> They will not change the law since it is very profitable for the cities/towns.


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## Fern (Nov 20, 2013)

The same problem exists here, govt. is going to change the hours that bars and clubs can stay open, while they admit people will get their drink wherever, the idea is to get them out of the CBD. Watching a tv prog. where the Wellington St.John ambulance 'mans' the streets hoping to alleviate the back log of drinking casualties that inevitably end up at  the ED in the hospitals.
If the young ones and not so young could see themselves, they might just get the message how stupid they act & look not the least to say barfing on the footpaths.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 20, 2013)

We have a law here, at least in Pennsylvania, that puts somewhat of a responsibility onto the bar owners / bartenders. They have to pass training that includes recognizing signs of inebriation and are supposed to cut-off anyone showing those signs. 

Two problems I've always seen with that:

1. You're asking a bartender / owner to cut into their own profits.
2. A few hours of training isn't going to make anyone an expert at diagnosing inebriation. 

As has been said, when I was a younger lad I had my times of heavy drinky-poo. I was "blessed" with appearing older than I was, so I was able to get into the clubs and bars beginning when I was 15 or so. I also drove "the circuit" beginning at 18, but it didn't last very long because that's also when I moved to NYC, where having a car was superfluous - you just walked to the corner bar, got soused and stumbled home. 

I was only a "black-out" drunk 2 or 3 times, among friends and never in a public place. My paranoia always prevented my doing that, but as a bouncer many were the times I had to carry someone out to their car, pour them in it and hold onto the keys until they sobered up. The good thing about working in bars was that the more I saw people getting drunk the less appealing it became to me, and I took my last drink several years ago at my last bouncing job (kind of hard to refuse a drink when it's being offered by a naked lady :love_heart: ).

I don't miss it, especially when I read about all the trouble it causes. Just another reason in my opinion to legalize weed ...


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## Warrigal (Nov 20, 2013)

All people serving alcohol in any licensed premises must have been certified for responsible service of alcohol. The trouble develops when people are determined to get blotto. It is the drinking culture itself that is the problem. And the extended hours. The emergency rooms of city hospitals are jammed every weekend with the carnage caused by drunks.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 20, 2013)

Sure we got into it when we were young.  I'll even put my hand up for driving home after putting away 6 Scotches and a Harvey Wallbanger but that was a one off.  It wasn't an every Friday/Saturday night thing. Even on that drink/driving occasion I was never staggering drunk, the booze was spread over about 6 hours, not skulled in 6 minutes as seems the go now. I remember being sober enough to be scared silly I'd be caught even though the laws weren't as draconian then.

Like Phil, I was way too paranoid, and too much the control freak to put myself at anyone else's mercy.  I always felt sick (psychological?)  long before I got drunk.  The appeal of that soon wore off as being a good time so I dropped out of that scene early.  
I might add we were in our early twenties, we weren't teenagers. Kids don't seem to have any thought of self preservation now.

 Maybe you had more freedoms younger in the States but I don't recall really young people being in the night-out scene back in my glory days. They gathered down country lanes for booze sessions,  or behind the factory or something but they weren't out in the CBD causing mayhem among the general public.
We were drinking 'normal' stuff too. Not rocket fuel and 'shooters' whatever the hell they consist of now. 
Closing time was 10pm and then only in a few places, can't remember exactly but 6pm closing may still have applied to most pubs.  
Kids these days are just kicking off at 10 pm, not heading home as we were.

That 'responsible service of alcohol' thing is a total farce.  They're already blotto when they come in and refusing them another one will simply bring on a fight quicker.  We don't have enough cops to go around all the bars all the time so blind eyes will be turned and bar staff will just hope they pass out quietly.


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## Happyflowerlady (Nov 20, 2013)

I think that each state makes the legal drinking age here. I know they did back when I was young, because Idaho drinking age was 18, and nearby Washington had drinking age of 21. I think our driving laws were younger, as well, and the kids who grew up in the country already learned to drive before the legal age of 14, usually on an old pickup, or the tractor, in haying season.
Since 18 is old enough to be in the military, we are basically saying that a person of 18 can get a job, get married, fight for our country, but cant drink a beer until they are 21.
As was mentioned, too often, they find a way to get drunk anyway, and graduation sadly is also sometimes the last night of their life.

I don't know what can be done to change this, and it does seem to be getting worse over here, as well. However, government regulation has never accomplished much besides keeping more track of the individual, and taking away more of peoples rights.
Now, they are stopping people and getting blood samples and DNA, in random stops, where they just pick and area, police flag over motorists, and a crew is there with equipment to run the tests. And these are not even people that are suspected of being drunk, or having been drinking, just pulling over everyone who happens to drive by, and it is supposed to be for information on drinking habits.

http://politicalblindspot.com/throu...-setting-up-dna-checkpoints-all-over-america/


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## Warrigal (Nov 20, 2013)

We have random breath testing of motorists, otherwise known as the booze bus. The BA limit is 0.05 and the introduction of this regime did make people of my generation much more responsible wrt drinking and driving.

What Di is describing is something quite different to the way we would drink on a night out. We drank beer or wine over the course of the evening and may or may not have been over the limit. What is happening now is an intention to become legless as quickly as possible and have photos to show on social media. Driving, at least for the inner city drunks, is not the issue. They are brawling in the streets and swinging wild punches at passersby for no apparent reason. A number of young people felled this way have died from head injuries as they hit the footpath. Girls are collapsing in the streets and also taking part in the brawls.

It's a very ugly development.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 20, 2013)

Happyflowerlady said:


> I think that each state makes the legal drinking age here. I know they did back when I was young, because Idaho drinking age was 18, and nearby Washington had drinking age of 21. I think our driving laws were younger, as well, and the kids who grew up in the country already learned to drive before the legal age of 14, usually on an old pickup, or the tractor, in haying season.



Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that 21 was the legal drinking age in ALL states. There ARE many states - 45, I think - that have exceptions, but they're mainly for medical, religious or in-home drinking with parental consent. Way back in 1984 the government passed a law - forgot the name - that would cut off revenue from states that sell or serve to under-21s, so everyone got into line at that time. 

Maybe you're thinking of pre-1984?

Warri, they might be getting drunk before they go out hitting peds in AussieLand, but over here they're stone cold sober for the most part when they do it. Here it isn't a drinking thing - it's a boredom and stupidity thing.


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## Happyflowerlady (Nov 20, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that 21 was the legal drinking age in ALL states. There ARE many states - 45, I think - that have exceptions, but they're mainly for medical, religious or in-home drinking with parental consent. Way back in 1984 the government passed a law - forgot the name - that would cut off revenue from states that sell or serve to under-21s, so everyone got into line at that time.
> 
> Maybe you're thinking of pre-1984?
> 
> Warri, they might be getting drunk before they go out hitting peds in AussieLand, but over here they're stone cold sober for the most part when they do it. Here it isn't a drinking thing - it's a boredom and stupidity thing.




I am definitely thinking of pre-1984, and I guess that shows exactly how little attention i have paid to the subject of the drinking age. Having it standardized everywhere in the US makes a whole lot more sense than having it vary from state to state.
Maybe something like that would work with regulating liquor sales as well ??
I was amazed when I was told about the laws here in the south, and how one part of a town can be "dry", and a couple of  blocks away, it is legal. 
But they wont even sell lottery tickets here, so who can expect them to agree on something as controversial as the drinking laws. I don't go out and drink, so it isn't something I pay a lot of attention to, since it really doesn't affect me , one way or another. On weekends, I am sure to be home before any of the partying starts, regardless.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 20, 2013)

I remember the year because I was bouncing in a place in California at the time, and there were a lot of problems that went along with instituting the new law. Then when I got back to NY the next year it was still a mess. 

I'm with you about being home before the nutsos start coming out. Even just walking around the block on a Friday or Saturday night here I can sense the change in traffic activity and intensity. There's more screeching of tires, more horns blowing, more running of stop signs. 



> Maybe something like that would work with regulating liquor sales as well ??



Unless I'm mistaken the same law applies to liquor, grocery and convenience store sales, that you have to be 21 or over. Not that they always know how to spot a fake ID, though ...  

Glad I don't drive anymore. :cower:


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## Anne (Nov 20, 2013)

Katy, I was surprised too, when I heard about the drinking laws here in the South.  Doesn't matter much; they go across state lines; and kids just find someone older, like we did in the dark ages.  

I remember one farming community where they weren't supposed to buy beer or liquor on Sundays.  After church, they went in the back door of the liquor store and got what they wanted.  The owner kept it open for an hour or so after church, and then everyone headed home with their beer.

Also, when someone wasn't in shape to drive home and got stopped, the cops gave them a ride home.  That wasn't something you could get away with often tho; thank heavens.


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## That Guy (Nov 21, 2013)

I'm so grateful alcohol just ain't my thing.  I'll drink to that!


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## RedRibbons (Nov 24, 2013)

ANYONE, who decides to drive after having a drink, is just an idiot pure and simple.


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## babyboomer (Nov 25, 2013)

Why to burden one self with licencing laws.In US there was "Prohibition" it lead nowhere, just crated more crime.

In Australia in 70's There more drunks on the street , than today.
Pubs were closing at 5.PM or 6PM, and people were pouring drinks down their troats, before closing time.
On weekends, there were kegs and boxes of beer at home. 

If one wants to drink, nothing will stop him (or her). Moonshine, vanilla essence..??


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## Jillaroo (Nov 25, 2013)

_I don't remember a lot of drunks on the streets where i lived ,bit different now there are so many drunks and mainly teenagers_


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## RedRibbons (Nov 25, 2013)

babyboomer said:


> Why to burden one self with licencing laws.In US there was "Prohibition" it lead nowhere, just crated more crime.
> 
> In Australia in 70's There more drunks on the street , than today.
> Pubs were closing at 5.PM or 6PM, and people were pouring drinks down their troats, before closing time.
> ...



You are right about our 13 years of prohibition. And, I agree nothing will stop alcohohlics. I just think it is a shame, that so many suffer for what they chose to do.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 25, 2013)

No drunks around me back then either but we lived in what we think was the only suburb in Sydney without a pub within it's boundaries.  



Those drunks after the 6 o'clock swill back in the 60s/70s were almost exclusively working men having a few beers in a short time between knocking off work and the 6pm pub closure Bboomer.  They sure weren't 16 to 18 year old kids blitzed stupid and fighting in the streets at all hours of the night as we're seeing today.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 25, 2013)

Well, there's the problem - send those 16 to 18-year olds off to work in the opal mines, or put them to giving vasectomies to sharks, or something else socially useful and personally draining; they won't have the energy to do _anything_ but drag themselves to the pub for a quick one before passing out from sheer exhaustion. 

Yet another sign of a culturally over-evolved culture ...


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## RedRibbons (Nov 26, 2013)

Underage drinking is a real problem. I am shocked when I learn that Some parents actually let their kids drink at home. One of my kids knew this kid in highschool, who was sent to prison because the kid was drunk underage, and ended up driving drunk and killing two innocent people.


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