# Very quiet this morning.  Are you all in church?



## CeeCee (Feb 2, 2014)

How many of you go?

I don't unless it's Christmas Eve and that is just tradition.

I am looking for a church though but for the wrong reasons...looking to meet new people.  We have a cool non denominational church nearby.  Went there once before years ago with the Jerk.  We were looking for a church we could agree on as he was religious.  He didn't like that one but I did.  So different from catholic church, it had a place you could buy coffee and take it in with you and at the beginning of that particular day tney put on a production of the beginning scene of "Lost". There was even smoke, it was fantastic.


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## Vivjen (Feb 2, 2014)

I am just wondering whether to have a nap on the settee.

No, I don't go to church.....I just can't believe in it very much....though I do see your point.


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## rkunsaw (Feb 2, 2014)

I don't go to church and I don't believe in any gods. I'm more inclined to believe that visitors from another planet were called gods because they were so much more advanced than earthlings. 
I know this may be stretching the imagination but not as much a stretch as believing some supernatural being created the entire universe.


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## Vivjen (Feb 2, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> I don't go to church and I don't believe in any gods. I'm more inclined to believe that visitors from another planet were called gods because they were so much more advanced than earthlings.
> I know this may be stretching the imagination but not as much a stretch as believing some supernatural being created the entire universe.


In 6 days; 4000 years ago..


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## Old Hipster (Feb 2, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> I don't go to church and I don't believe in any gods. I'm more inclined to believe that visitors from another planet were called gods because they were so much more advanced than earthlings.
> I know this may be stretching the imagination but not as much a stretch as believing some supernatural being created the entire universe.


Hey me too Larry, I believe that very strongly, it just seems to be the only thing that makes sense to me, that is if I feel I do need to have some sort of answer or belief, but it seems very plausible to me. Misunderstood technology and perhaps a bit of tinkering with our DNA along the way. I believe in Creationism, but our creators came in spaceships.


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## rkunsaw (Feb 2, 2014)

CeeCee said:


> I don't believe in the God of the Bible but I don't know if I believe that our creators came in spaceships either...where are they now?



they're back on their home planet having a good laugh at what they did to this planet. :lofl:


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## Falcon (Feb 2, 2014)

Yes, I go to church.............for weddings and funerals.

 I tend to go along with what Lenin once said, "God didn't make man; Man made God."

 I don't need a crutch to help me through my everyday life.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 2, 2014)

The problem with aliens creating us is simple - where did the _aliens_ come from? Who created _them_? 

You could go on and on with that kind of thinking, chasing your own tail into the cosmos. 

I've never attended church as a member, only a guest. Several weddings and too many funerals to remember.


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## Davey Jones (Feb 2, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> I don't go to church and I don't believe in any gods. I'm more inclined to believe that visitors from another planet were called gods because they were so much more advanced than earthlings.
> I know this may be stretching the imagination but not as much a stretch as believing some supernatural being created the entire universe.




Are you crazy?? Dont believe in God???  Im telling the Pope what you said.All those year I spend praying for some help and...and...and

OH wait...I dont believe in that stuff either....carry on.


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 2, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> they're back on their home planet having a good laugh at what they did to this planet.



Or...having a good cry at what we did to this planet.

I don't go to church at all, did as a young child because I had to.  These churches and structured religions are just another business, IMO.  I have no respect for them, and have no need to participate in their support.  If I ever felt the need to pray, I can do it with no effort in the privacy of my own home.  And when I see those preachers on TV, sporting their expensive suits and Rolex watches, it turns my stomach to observe them and their followers.


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## Davey Jones (Feb 2, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> The problem with aliens creating us is simple - where did the _aliens_ come from? Who created _them_?



Aliens ??? I donno,let me ask her about that.





Sigourney ​Weaver​


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## That Guy (Feb 2, 2014)

I tried different churches over the years and just gave in to the fact that organized religion fails me at each turn.


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## Bullie76 (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm probably going to give church another try soon. I used to take my mom to church sometimes. But it was made up of people closer to her age than mine so when she passed away last year, I got away from going.


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## Vivjen (Feb 2, 2014)

My Mum goes to church regularly; and most of the people there are her age; when I go I lower the average age by about 10 years...


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## Happyflowerlady (Feb 2, 2014)

I was raised to believe in God, do my best to treat everyone with consideration and compassion, and went to church most Sundays.  I still try very hard to live the "love thy neighbor as thyself" lifestyle; but I haven't been to church for the last year or so. I miss going, and have always loved the praise and worship part of church the very best.

As far as believing in an actual 6-day creation, I don't think that is what happened, but I can't see evolution explaining things any better. 
And, pretty much, promoters of either belief do not even consider any other possibilities than their personal beliefs.
Since, by definition, a God who comes from Heaven, would be someone coming from another planet somewhere, I don't see any reason that this is not at least a viable possibility. 

Of course, that does leave us with the question Phil raised, of "then where did the aliens come from, and who/what created them, and the planets they arrived from ?".
It also begs an answer to the other question of "if they were here, what became of them ?". 
Are they still here, and we see them the same as us ?    Maybe they ARE the same as us, if we were created in "God's image", and they are the "Gods" ?
There are too many questions that we just don't have answers for. We are kind of like the blind men trying to describe an elephant, and each one touching a different part of it.

I watched a youtube video by Lloyd Pye, called "Everything you believe is wrong", and he has some interesting theories, and started me off down the rabbit trail of the Intervention Theory.
Here is the link to his video, but be sure to get a cup of coffee, and settle down in a comfy chair before watching it, it is a long video, but worth the time it takes to see it.

http://youtu.be/pe6DN1OoxjE


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## Jillaroo (Feb 2, 2014)

_I don't go to church, just after hubby died i felt the need to go OMG they kept calling in to my home and whenever they were there you could see them checking out my belongings, they obviously thought i was good for a big donation,they kept dropping hints along those lines too so i gave them the shift, they had a full band in the church which had me wondering right from the start.
                               Spoilt it for me as i just felt i needed to be in church for some peace..._:kissmy:


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## Vivjen (Feb 2, 2014)

I couldn't find peace there at all...


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## GDAD (Feb 2, 2014)

:anyone:_Free confession for today only!_


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## Vivjen (Feb 2, 2014)

Not sure that just today would be long enough...


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## Ina (Feb 2, 2014)

When did they start charging? :lofl:


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## SifuPhil (Feb 2, 2014)

Ina said:


> When did they start charging? :lofl:



Probably back in the '60's when they were sending a year's worth of envelopes in the mail to my parents, and suggesting that their previous contributions were a bit on the low side ...


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## Diwundrin (Feb 2, 2014)

Church is the last place I'd find peace.  A deserted beach is the epitome of peace to me.  I always found Churches creepy.  Like riding the Ghost Train when you were a kid.  You know it's all bullsh*t smoke and mirrors but it still creeps you out. It's not the religious aspect, it's the people who invented it that bother me I think, the thinking and history behind it all.  It symbolises something I don't need to think long on.

I mentioned to an acquaintance once jokingly, that I must have been burned as a witch in a previous incarnation as Churches were creepy to me.

He did the whole palm and aura reading spiel and assured me that there was no mark of the witch in my aura which btw was bright blue, WTF's that about?

Problem with that is I don't believe that paranormal psychic crap either.. layful:


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## Ina (Feb 2, 2014)

Di, I totally agree.  :dito:


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## SifuPhil (Feb 2, 2014)

I appreciate churches as architectural gems; I just don't follow their religions. 

Unfortunately my most vivid memories of churches are tied to funerals, whether it was my father's and sister's one month apart, or the dancer that was murdered, or any of the dozens of other services I've attended. I remember my mother practically comatose and being literally commanded by the priest to stand up and sit down, stand up and sit down like a bloody jumping jack, until I told her to stay seated and glared at the priest. 

I wasn't very welcome in that church after that. Suited me fine.


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## Diwundrin (Feb 2, 2014)

Most ghastly 'Church' image I carry from the many funerals was one of the last few I attended in Singleton.  
As the coffin was being carried out the music played Wind beneath my Wings and the poncy priest was doing a little shuffle and dance behind the coffin up the aisle in time to the music.  What a loathsome creature to treat the congregation's dignified and heartfelt farewell to an old friend, a well loved and much respected man, with such contempt!  
If even I could overcome my loathing of Churches in general and the RC in particular out of respect for the deceased and his family then surely their own 'professional shaman' could have managed to make an effort?

It was just a job to him.  His dedication to the beliefs his career is based on must have been at around "do you want fries with that?" level.

I don't mind that people are frauds so much as long as they at least try to do it well!


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## Ina (Feb 2, 2014)

Last time I was in church, my father drug me down the aisle, with him yelling at me to confess to one all. I was eight. I said to myself, "No more church for me."


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## Warrigal (Feb 2, 2014)

Well, I do go to church and have done since my mid thirties. Before that I was a vocal atheist.
I would never consent to being manipulated or controlled and reject all of the nonsense emanating for the USA, including young earth creationism.
So does everyone else in our congregation. 

We don't regard the scriptures as the word of God but as teachings from which we try to find the will of God i.e. how we should be living our lives and how we should be treating others and comfort in the time of trouble and sadness. We apply our intelligence and free will to what we learn as befits people living in the 21st century. We empower the children to do the same.

Is church fun ? That depends on what you call fun.
People who come to our church on Sundays find acceptance, hear some scripture and a short talk on how it relates to today's issues, we sing a bit, rather badly, and according to our means and inclination, we contribute some money towards the cost of paying the minister his stipend as well as the costs of keeping the building open and in good condition. All giving is anonymous so no-one keeps a check on individuals. Afterwards we have a very pleasant morning tea and people linger and chat for ages. Then most disperse to their homes but a few of us decamp to the local licenced club for lunch.

That last sentence points to what might be the result of attending a church - fellowship, companionship, friendship - call it what you like. It doesn't happen on day one, let's get real, but after a while people get to know you and you them. Like seeks out like and bonds form. This process is aided by finding out what happens at the church through the week. Some churches are more social than others that may be more evangelical. If the only groups on offer are prayer and bible study then I wouldn't join. Ours has support groups for families, including families with disabled children, playgroups, a craft (charity knitting) group and a seniors group. There's also a night tennis club.

Ina, I had experiences of church as a child that turned me off too. I'm grown up now and in charge of myself and I've found that as an adult I still have much to learn and I also have much to contribute.


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## Ina (Feb 2, 2014)

Warrigal, contrary to my church experiences, I know there are some good ones out there, but finding one in our big bad city of Houston, Tx is like the meddle in the hay stack. :saywhat:


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## Warrigal (Feb 2, 2014)

Yes Ina, if I was confronted with nothing but wall to wall fundamentalist churches I too would abstain but please don't think that the whole world is like that. A church is just a collection of people with a common commitment, hopefully to the way of living taught by one Jesus of Nazareth and explored by many generations since that time, but not always successfully.


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## Diwundrin (Feb 2, 2014)

Then of course there's local 'Glee' or Citizens clubs without all the baggage, but whatever rocks yer cradle.


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## Warrigal (Feb 2, 2014)

Of course. But the topic was church as a source of fun. 
Some people think Hillsong is fun. 
I don't, but it is an American derivative, so perhaps fun is a feature of some churches in the US.

I don't find Glee or citizens clubs much fun either.
A chaque oiseau, son nid est beau, I guess.


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## Rainee (Feb 2, 2014)

I don`t go to church either but I do love the organs and some older hymns... and also I try to live by the golden rule.. 
I used to sit at the steps at the church next door to us when we were kids... and just listen to the organ playing , 
as my mother was a pianist she would play in local hotels well I loved both these kind of music .. I guess its what floats 
your boat , each are different and our likes and dislikes are as well.. I just love to hear the organ playing in a chapel in the moonlight ! eerie for some? not for me its peaceful and so serene...


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## Diwundrin (Feb 2, 2014)

Hey, I love Gregorian chants but you won't find me in Church to listen to them, CDs roool.

There was  bunch of bright young things from Hillsong turned up to entertain at Mum's hostel, I caught the last few minutes of it and it sounded ok, except for the lyrics, but the looks exchanged among the oldies was even more entertaining.  Raised eyebrows and bewildered expressions everywhere.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 2, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> A chaque oiseau, son nid est beau, I guess.



"A shocking old soul, his son is his boyfriend"?!?

Is THAT what they're teaching in your church??? 

An individual church might a pleasant experience, but no matter how hard I try I don't think I would be able to forget that it's part of a larger corporation, one whose main focus is always getting more members and hence more money.


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## Warrigal (Feb 2, 2014)

The point I have been trying to make, Phil, is that it is not about seeking a pleasant experience on the part of the adherent. That is not one of the promises. Quite the reverse is the often outcome. Nor is it about accumulating wealth on behalf of the "corporation". It is about sharing wealth though, which is why the wealthy have corrupted the message over the ages.

Where on earth did you get that translation?


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## SifuPhil (Feb 2, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> The point I have been trying to make, Phil, is that it is not about seeking a pleasant experience on the part of the adherent. That is not one of the promises. Quite the reverse is the often outcome. Nor is it about accumulating wealth on behalf of the "corporation". It is about sharing wealth though, which is why the wealthy have corrupted the message over the ages.



I understand the original intent of the church - well, my understanding and yours might well be different - but modern-day non-profit corporations are having a tough time surviving with the economy being what it is. I can't imagine one that would put aside income considerations for more altruistic ones. I think you can be sure that if all of your contributions were to dry up, your church might begin the long, slow slide into oblivion that has happened repeatedly over here. 



> Where on earth did you get that translation?



I was just kidding with it. I sounded it out phonetically and that's the first thing that came to mind.


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## Warrigal (Feb 2, 2014)

> I think you can be sure that if all of your contributions were to dry up, your church might begin the long, slow slide into oblivion that has happened repeatedly over here.



 But they are drying up. My denomination has the oldest age profile in Australia and we are all getting older. 
In time it will die but that is the nature of things - material and spiritual.



> Timeless truth I speak to you: Unless a grain of wheat falls and dies in the ground, it remains alone, but if it dies, it yields much fruit.”
> Jn12:24



 Oblivion is not inevitable. Death is not necessarily oblivion.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> But they are drying up. My denomination has the oldest age profile in Australia and we are all getting older.
> In time it will die but that is the nature of things - material and spiritual.



Well, the church has been around for 2,000 years, give or take a few centuries - they're still here. If they change radically and become the social club that you're referring to they might survive another 2,000 ...




> Oblivion is not inevitable. Death is not necessarily oblivion.



Therefore death is not inevitable? 

Disagree.


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Well, the church has been around for 2,000 years, give or take a few centuries - they're still here. If they change radically and become the social club that you're referring to they might survive another 2,000 ...



Au contraire, Phil. Social clubs don't last but that is what CeeCee seems to be looking for. It is possible to find a faith community that is convivial and social but that is not its raison d'etre.  Just a spin off from the core philosophy.  



> Therefore death is not inevitable?
> Disagree.



Where did I say that death was not inevitable? I said oblivion was not but I was talking about things that are more enduring than mere flesh and blood. Some things exist in hearts and minds and outlive both of those host organs. Like fire they can exist as almost unnoticeable embers in a book, a painting, a song or an oral story and may flare into life later when the conditions are again favourable. Renaissance does happen.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> Au contraire, Phil. Social clubs don't last but that is what CeeCee seems to be looking for. It is possible to find a faith community that is convivial and social but that is not its raison d'etre.  Just a spin off from the core philosophy.



And since that core philosophy is increasingly being abandoned, the only way to survive is to emphasize the social aspects.




> Where did I say that death was not inevitable?



You made a logical construct: if A=B and C=B, then A=C.



> I said oblivion was not but I was talking about things that are more enduring than mere flesh and blood. Some things exist in hearts and minds and outlive both of those host organs. Like fire they can exist as almost unnoticeable embers in a book, a painting, a song or an oral story and may flare into life later when the conditions are again favourable. Renaissance does happen.



Is this a faith-based determination or a hypothesis or a theory or ... ?

Why haven't any living humans seen these resurrections? Why aren't they documented on video? Why don't we see them when a person dies?


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

> You made a logical construct: if A=B and C=B, then A=C.



Did not. Take another look.

I said A does not necessarily lead to C and B is not necessarily equal to A.
Totally different logic.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

You said:



> Oblivion is not inevitable. Death is not necessarily oblivion.



Reconstructing and combining the two clauses while deleting the common denominator:



> Death is not necessarily inevitable



In a spiritual sense, perhaps not - no one knows. But in a _physical_ sense I maintain that it is an erroneous statement.


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

Using your technique I arrive at "oblivion is not oblivion".
Mine makes as much sense as your conclusion - i.e. bugger all. :tongue:

See how easy it is do argue about irrelevancies rather than crack the kernel of a topic.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Well, the kernel seems to be that you think you're going to live forever, and I think I'm going to die. 

We'll see who's right in the end.


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Well, the kernel seems to be that you think you're going to live forever, and I think I'm going to die.
> 
> We'll see who's right in the end.



 You assume wrongly. People die and necessarily so and so do some ideas but there are other ideas which, if not exactly eternal are very long lived. They leap from host to host. That is what I have been arguing.

 Getting back to churches - it is not their mission to preserve themselves. Their mission is to pass on teachings and values which should, if they are  'living words", outlive the institutions that fostered them.

 I have no expectation of any kind of afterlife but for some time I will live on in the memories of certain people who knew me intimately.


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## Diwundrin (Feb 3, 2014)

SifuPhil said:


> Well, the kernel seems to be that you think you're going to live forever, and I think I'm going to die.
> 
> We'll see who's right in the end.



If I was bit younger I'd offer to hold the bets.


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

NLACGY, eh Di ?


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> You assume wrongly. People die and necessarily so and so do some ideas but there are other ideas which, if not exactly eternal are very long lived. They leap from host to host. That is what I have been arguing.
> 
> Getting back to churches - it is not their mission to preserve themselves. Their mission is to pass on teachings and values which should, if they are  'living words", outlive the institutions that fostered them.
> 
> I have no expectation of any kind of afterlife but for some time I will live on in the memories of certain people who knew me intimately.



You stinker, you - you led me down a blind path!


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## Rainee (Feb 3, 2014)

And the topic is ? very quiet this morning . are you all in Church.. LOL last post ending is any thing but quiet here LOL.
good reading and debates .. I love it !


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

Spencer Tracey, to Katharine Hepburn, in the movie Desk Set:



> Now, before asking you the next question, I must advise you it contains a trick.
> 
> In order to see into the trick, I give you two words of advice: Never assume.


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

And best of all, Rainee, no blood has been spilled.

 Peace on Earth, salaam, and shalom to all.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> And best of all, Rainee, no blood has been spilled.
> 
> Peace on Earth, salaam, and shalom to all.



You forgot "namaste".

Elitist! layful:


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

Not elitist. Just ignorant.
 I could have added _pax_ but that's my limit for other languages relating to peace.

 What language is _Namaste ?_


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## Rainee (Feb 3, 2014)

Namaste was the greeting our Indian neighbours used to give us when they arrived home or left home to go to work.. 
I guess it would be an Indian greeting or Hindu is it Phil?


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Rainee said:


> Namaste was the greeting our Indian neighbours used to give us when they arrived home or left home to go to work..
> I guess it would be an Indian greeting or Hindu is it Phil?



That's it exactly.

Derived from the Sanskrit it means "Salutations to you" or (in the language of New Age aficionados) "The spirit in me recognizes the spirit in you".

I go with the first one. It's commonly used in Asian countries by Hindus, Buddhists and what-have-you.


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

Hmmn ... 

What is basically a simple expression of, "_Hail to you_", morphs into, "_The spirit in me recognises the spirit in you_". 
I'd go with the first one too. the second one is pretentious IMO.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> Hmmn ...
> 
> What is basically a simple expression of, "_Hail to you_", morphs into, "_The spirit in me recognises the spirit in you_".
> I'd go with the first one too. the second one is pretentious IMO.



You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard it defined that way, usually by some yoga teacher who drives a brand-new BMW and has her nails done every week ...


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## Vivjen (Feb 3, 2014)

Translation please...


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## Davey Jones (Feb 3, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> .
> 
> Getting back to churches - it is not their mission to preserve themselves. Their mission is to pass on teachings and values which should, if they are  'living words", outlive the institutions that fostered them.



 Ya forgot the number 1 item in any religious organization,the collection plate,money,money and lots of it(tax free).


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## That Guy (Feb 3, 2014)

Davey Jones said:


> Ya forgot the number 1 item in any religious organization,the collection plate,money,money and lots of it(tax free).


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

God has no need a starship (The Final Frontier) or of money, either.

The economics of running a church are all about feeding the priests and building the temples.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> God has no need a starship (The Final Frontier) or of money, either.
> 
> The economics of running a church are all about feeding the priests and building the temples.



God is the big, hulking guy lurking in the shadows while his skinny little debt collectors (the priests) get their money.


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## Falcon (Feb 3, 2014)

Think "tithe".  They're telling you  how much to give !  10%.


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## Falcon (Feb 3, 2014)

I've heard that some clergy people actually scout the neighborhood

 hoping for the  best deal to fill a vacancy.


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

Falcon said:


> Think "tithe".  They're telling you  how much to give !  10%.



Tithes? Another American custom not adopted universally. Try telling our congregation how much they have to give and see where it gets you. ... on your bum on the wrong side of the door. Very quickly. It was tried by imported US style marketeers years ago and is still hotly remembered. Our church bank account has a buffer of about $22,000 in case of major problems with either the church building or the manse. It's been like that for years. We run two church market days each year just to make ends meet.


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## Falcon (Feb 3, 2014)

Praise the Lord and pass the collection plates......or buckets.


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

"Only in America", said she shaking her head slowly.

You've been worshipping Mammon so long now that you think everyone else does too,


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> "Only in America", said she shaking her head slowly.
> 
> You've been worshipping Mammon so long now that you think everyone else does too,



The Church of Latter-Day Saints - Australia


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

Yes, we have them and the JWs too but they are minor players. We also have Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hari Krishnas and many more besides so if you look around you can find examples to prove any point. Doesn't make your point a universal truth though.

As a former treasurer of our congregation I am in a position to talk about the realities for my (3rd largest in Oz) denomination. Donations to the church are not tax deductible, there is income tax paid on the minister's stipend but as a non profit organisation we can claim back any goods and services tax (GST) paid on purchases directly related to the core business of the church. And we must submit Business Activity Statements (BAS) to the Tax Office quarterly and audited statements of our accounts annually. It's not the gold mine that people imagine it is.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> Yes, we have them and the JWs too but they are minor players. We also have Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hari Krishnas and many more besides so if you look around you can find examples to prove any point. Doesn't make your point a universal truth though.



I wasn't trying to make a point - merely correcting yours. layful:



> As a former treasurer of our congregation I am in a position to talk about the realities for my (3rd largest in Oz) denomination. Donations to the church are not tax deductible, there is income tax paid on the minister's stipend but as a non profit organisation we can claim back any goods and services tax (GST) paid on purchases directly related to the core business of the church. And we must submit Business Activity Statements (BAS) to the Tax Office quarterly and audited statements of our accounts annually. It's not the gold mine that people imagine it is.



Yes, that's standard non-profit work. And yes, given enough volume it can be a gold-mine. Just look at some of the American branches of - hell, just look at the Vatican. 

You say that donations are NOT deductible?  THAT'S odd. 

Question - why are you afraid to name your denomination? The last time I spoke with someone who wouldn't name their affiliation they were Amway sales people. I would think you would be proud to give the name ...


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## Warrigal (Feb 3, 2014)

Donations in the collection plate are not tax deductible but a donation to a charitable institution might be. It has to be recognised as such. Not for profit is not the same as being a charity. 

I didn't name the denomination because then I would have to explain it. It is The Uniting Church in Australia and came about in 1977 when the Methodists, some Presbyterians and some Congregationalists finally got their act together and formed a uniquely Australian church. Previously they were more English and Scottish in character. From the beginning it was progressive with female clergy, no hierarchy in the leadership and speaking out strongly for the disadvantaged and the down trodden. You can see why I like it.

But it has the oldest age profile of any church in Australia.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 3, 2014)

Warrigal said:


> Donations in the collection plate are not tax deductible but a donation to a charitable institution might be. It has to be recognised as such. Not for profit is not the same as being a charity.



That's an interesting distinction, one that I'm not sure applies over here. 



> I didn't name the denomination because then I would have to explain it. It is The Uniting Church in Australia and came about in 1977 when the Methodists, some Presbyterians and some Congregationalists finally got their act together and formed a uniquely Australian church. Previously they were more English and Scottish in character. From the beginning it was progressive with female clergy, no hierarchy in the leadership and speaking out strongly for the disadvantaged and the down trodden. You can see why I like it.
> 
> But it has the oldest age profile of any church in Australia.



Sounds like a very unique gathering and yes, I can see why you like it. Congrats!


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