# Who is there to get angry with?



## grahamg (Apr 10, 2020)

My dear mother used to talk about the need to get ones anger out, maybe when playing rough sports like rugby, American football, or whatever.

My question is for those isolated who is there to be angry with, when the mood takes you?

I'm not talking physical abuse here okay, just when your day isn't going too well staring at four walls, what should you do to relieve the feeling there must be more to life than this?

If you have a pet, or other animal, you can at least tell them how you're feeling, but just maybe, our governments, at least right now, haven't factored in how long mere men (and women), can remain effectively in solitary confinement for so many (okay a walk or run in the park is permitted so long as you don't socially interact). Its got to be done for now, I accept that, but for months on end, with no definite idea how any country gets out of this situation(?).


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## Judycat (Apr 10, 2020)

Looks like we are going to find out. Maybe we'll all learn to become patient and more aware.


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## chic (Apr 11, 2020)

I'm not staying in so, I can't say, but I'm getting yelled at a lot for really stupid (to me) things by other people because everyone is so on edge due to this virus and I understand that. Still, it's not good. Maybe keeping occupied with a project could help? IDK.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 11, 2020)

Be thankful that you are healthy and comfortable in the safety of your home.

_"There are two things a person should never be angry at, what they can help, and what they cannot."_ - Plato

_"Occupy your mind with good thoughts, or the enemy will fill them with bad ones."_ - Thomas Moore


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## Em in Ohio (Apr 11, 2020)

I seem to be feeling anger more often as this lock-down continues - mainly because I read too much.  So, you would think that I would just choose to do something else, right?  Well, I'm failing to redirect myself bigtime and the pressure is building.  I would go to the back yard and try primal screaming, but I fear the neighborhood would call the men in white coats.  If the weather ever stabilizes, I can get outside to do heavy yard-work.  That should help. (I hope!)


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## IrisSenior (Apr 11, 2020)

You could call someone.
Go for a walk.
Scream into a pillow.
Stop reading all the news about Covid-19.
Be thankful every day for what you DO have.
Come here and talk to us.


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## Ken N Tx (Apr 11, 2020)

IrisSenior said:


> Stop reading all the news about Covid-19.


I switch over to my Firestick streaming devise..


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## Keesha (Apr 11, 2020)

Stop reading or listening to the news about all of this as it is depressing as hell and be thankful that you aren’t dying of it. Focus on something else.: anything else except the people who are getting snappy. People are strange.


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## Rosemarie (Apr 11, 2020)

Expecting people to stay locked up indefinitely is rather unreasonable. No wonder tempers are short. Thank God I live alone.


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## Judycat (Apr 11, 2020)

These are trying times. It takes a while to adapt. But adapt we will. When it ends, we will have to adapt to that then. We are finite-thinking creatures in a changing world, that's why.


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## StarSong (Apr 11, 2020)

I think that what gets expressed as anger is actually stress.  These days if it's too crummy out to walk, I stair climb 100X on the two steps inside my house, hop as high as I can while holding onto a kitchen counter, do standing push ups against that same counter, walk a loop inside my house, and do other physical exercises to relieve the stress.  

I often have a jigsaw puzzle set up on my dining room table and divert my mind with that for an hour or so at a time. I read fiction on my tablet, watch Netflix or Prime. No commercial TV unless it's on the DVR and I can zip through commercials, and no broadcast news whatsoever. 

I get all my news from the Internet, meaning I decide what and how much of a topic I want to read. Certain politicians and biased newscasters who raise my ire are refused entry in my home and my psyche - it's surprisingly easy to avoid extra stress when you take full control of who and what you allow to yammer at you. 

That's how I keep my stress levels down.


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## Ronni (Apr 11, 2020)

I am so grateful that the weather here has been mild, because it allows me to get outside and garden.  I'd love to go to my favorite nurseries and buy the annuals that give my porch pots their riots of color and texture, but that's not happening right now, so I've made do with the plants that my grocery store has for sale outside.  Not the kind of arrangement I typically do, but I'll take it.  

I bought vegetable plants there too, and have planted the veggie garden, brought a bunch of my houseplants out and arranged them on the porch like I do every year, and just generally stay busy outside.  Even pulling weeds is therapeutic for me right now.  

I also go for walks around the neighborhood, not the kind of power walking I do for exercise, just strolls up and down the streets, noticing people's yards, their plants, waving to the few people who are sitting outside or doing their own garden work.  

It's a much slower pace than I'm used to, but I stay busy and productive because it's the only way I've found to keep my heightened anxiety at bay.


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## RadishRose (Apr 11, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> Be thankful that you are healthy and comfortable in the safety of your home.


I so agree.


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## Tommy (Apr 11, 2020)

IrisSenior said:


> You could call someone.
> Go for a walk.
> Scream into a pillow.
> Stop reading all the news about Covid-19.
> ...


A great response!  I might add:
Read a good book.
Start an excercise regimen.
Write a letter (remember those? )
Watch internet videos on subjects that interest you.
Start an email dialog with a friend or acquaintance.
Clean and/or organize something.
Start a diary.


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## Pepper (Apr 11, 2020)

There's always myself, the one I'm most usually angry with anyway.  Convenient. 

Could never be mad around cats, they are smart enough to hide under the bed.


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## JaniceM (Apr 11, 2020)

My POV is disgust more than anger-  as this virus was known about way back in December, we all should have been alerted much sooner.  If we'd had the chance to take precautions there would have been fewer cases, fewer deaths, and we could have been prepared for it.


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## Pepper (Apr 11, 2020)

I do get disgusted at how easily many humans panic.  One thing to take all precautions, another to get hysterical over it.


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## RadishRose (Apr 11, 2020)

StarSong said:


> hop as high as I can while holding onto a kitchen counter


I want to see that!


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## oldman (Apr 11, 2020)

I was sent to a forum that was held by a Psychologist and was “How to deal with difficult people.” When or if you have a job that causes you to deal with people, you soon learn that there are many different types of personalities. As an airline pilot, you need to learn these personalities and how to deal with them. Not everyone has a personality that will cause concern, but then again, a few do.

That forum was held not long after I started working at United. The thing that I liked most about this forum was that it was held as a round table type where everyone was given an opportunity to speak, or ask questions. The Psychologist also asked a few people what made them angry. Everyone that was asked that question gave an answer about when they were driving. It seemed to me that driving may bring the worse out in people.

I grew up in a peaceful home and tried to continue with that type of home when I had my family. I rarely get mad (angry, is there a difference?), but yes, I can hold my own if engaged in a confrontation.


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## win231 (Apr 11, 2020)

"Lock Down?"  I've been going out every day ever since this started.  I've been visiting friends & bringing  my elderly friends food & supplies.  From the traffic, not many people are staying home, either.


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## StarSong (Apr 11, 2020)

RadishRose said:


> I want to see that!


A few weeks ago I wanted to get something from an upper shelf over my counter.  Hubby wasn't handy so I figured I'd just hop up and get it myself.  I was incredibly dismayed that I couldn't hoist myself up on that counter.  I had to get a stool!  (Are you kidding me?)  It bummed me out to the point where I decided I'd do something about it.    

Starting that very day I began working on regaining the ability to hop up/hoist myself up on that counter - and am now to the point where I can get up there with ease.  I do at least one set of 20 repetitions each day.  Same with the push ups.


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## win231 (Apr 11, 2020)

Pepper said:


> I do get disgusted at how easily many humans panic.  One thing to take all precautions, another to get hysterical over it.


Most people are content to be sheep & don't think past what we are told.


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## StarSong (Apr 11, 2020)

win231 said:


> "Lock Down?"  I've been going out every day ever since this started.  I've been visiting friends & bringing  my elderly friends food & supplies.  From the traffic, not many people are staying home, either.


Traffic is down dramatically in my area.  We went grocery shopping yesterday for the first time in over a week and were out less than two hours, all told.  Even local main arteries were nearly empty.   

In fact, with the exception of those working in essential jobs you're the only Californian I personally know of, in cyberspace or otherwise, who continues to go out every day. 

You're clearly enjoying thumbing your nose at the rules. I hope that doesn't come back to haunt you or your elderly friends.


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## Rosemarie (Apr 11, 2020)

win231 said:


> Most people are content to be sheep & don't think past what we are told.


That is true of so many things


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## Keesha (Apr 11, 2020)

Traffic is down and tickets are being given for those not practising social distancing. The fine is $2,500 and 75 have been handed  out in our general area. Police are also stopping cars and asking where people are going. We don’t yet have a lock down but it ‘could’ happen.

Even where we live is eerily quiet. Normally there is an occasional car or pedestrian on our road but it’s been barren lately. I’m still looking forward to another month when annual flowers can be bought at the grocery stores.


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## oldman (Apr 11, 2020)

I have also noticed traffic being cut pretty severely. I leave for work at 5:20 a.m. and even then, it’s nowhere as busy as it was prior to the virus concerns. I leave work at between 10:00 a.m. and 12 noon and traffic is also light.

I just want my old life back.


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## oldman (Apr 11, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Traffic is down dramatically in my area.  We went grocery shopping yesterday for the first time in over a week and were out less than two hours, all told.  Even local main arteries were nearly empty.
> 
> In fact, with the exception of those working in essential jobs you're the only Californian I personally know of, in cyberspace or otherwise, who continues to go out every day.
> 
> You're clearly enjoying thumbing your nose at the rules. I hope that doesn't come back to haunt you or your elderly friends.


I have been wondering how the traffic was in the L.A. area. I remember when I would fly into LAX, if I was staying over, I would drive over to Long Beach and maybe have lunch or dinner, depending on the time of day. My sister-in-law lived in Torrance. Her husband, my b-i-l was an attorney, (PI) and we would maybe have dinner. The last time we did that was 2009 and he took us to a place called “Nick’s.” Good food and really good service. I really liked the area. If I lived out there, my favorite area was Century City. Good choice or not?


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## AnnieA (Apr 11, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> My POV is disgust more than anger-  as this virus was known about way back in December, we all should have been alerted much sooner.  If we'd had the chance to take precautions there would have been fewer cases, fewer deaths, and we could have been prepared for it.



That's where part of my anger is focused.  First is with the CCP (CCP Virus is a great name for this disease) and their lies, cover-ups, persecution of Chinese citizens trying to get the truth out.

Next is the WHO that acted as though the CCP's numbers were correct. So in doing so failed to act in a timely manner.

Next are most governments of the Western world who knew the CCP and WHO were full of shit and didn't act independently.

My almost fury level anger is directed at the CDC due to their multiple testing failures including testing timeline, ludicrously narrow early parameters, screwing up tests with sloppy lab practices, poor coordination with the FDA to fix the problem...  They're career bureaucrats who have had their noses up Big Pharmas' butts for so long that they didn't know how to do their actual jobs properly when the need came along.

Typing it out here helps.


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## gennie (Apr 11, 2020)

I talk to myself a lot.  Sometimes rather loudly


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## Pepper (Apr 11, 2020)

I did blow up at someone today.  I ruined my own day which was hard to start with, as it is my Dad's BD today.  I yelled at a Coop Board Member.  I didn't like her nasty attitude toward the staff, men who have been here for years.  Shouldn't have, though.  I'm on the edge.  Not seeing my grandson, except on FaceTime, is getting to me.


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## win231 (Apr 11, 2020)

oldman said:


> I have been wondering how the traffic was in the L.A. area. I remember when I would fly into LAX, if I was staying over, I would drive over to Long Beach and maybe have lunch or dinner, depending on the time of day. My sister-in-law lived in Torrance. Her husband, my b-i-l was an attorney, (PI) and we would maybe have dinner. The last time we did that was 2009 and he took us to a place called “Nick’s.” Good food and really good service. I really liked the area. If I lived out there, my favorite area was Century City. Good choice or not?


If you're back in this area & you go to Long Beach, I recommend Parker's Lighthouse in Shoreline Village (when restaurants are open again). Great seafood.


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## Sassycakes (Apr 11, 2020)

*I spend most of my time here on the forum. I can't stand what is on tv especially what my husband enjoys watching. He is either watching Political shows or shows about the amount of people that have died or caught the virus. I put my earplugs in and listen to music or go to youtube and watch old shows. Everyday I facetime my 3 grandchildren, that's the best part of the day. *


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## Getyoung (Apr 11, 2020)

There really is not much of a "rush hour" here anymore. Weekdays have Sunday morning levels of traffic. This whole virus issue still seems surreal. 
A friend of mines mother who lives in a senior home has died due to the covid virus. Last year she had the regular flu without a problem. What makes me really angry, is that prior to the actual lock down of senior residences for visitors, but still with the social distancing in effect, a grandson of another resident came for a visit. It ended up he tested positive a few days later. It now looks like he brought it in and there have been 8 deaths in that residence alone!


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## StarSong (Apr 12, 2020)

oldman said:


> I have been wondering how the traffic was in the L.A. area. I remember when I would fly into LAX, if I was staying over, I would drive over to Long Beach and maybe have lunch or dinner, depending on the time of day. My sister-in-law lived in Torrance. Her husband, my b-i-l was an attorney, (PI) and we would maybe have dinner. The last time we did that was 2009 and he took us to a place called “Nick’s.” Good food and really good service. I really liked the area. If I lived out there, my favorite area was Century City. Good choice or not?


Traffic is down dramatically.  As @Getyoung said about his area, LA rush hour traffic also closely resembles non-holiday weekend (or summer beach weather) Sunday mornings. 

Most West LA areas, Century City included, are very happening places with the best of the best of our weather. Of course that means they're also expensive, densely populated and highly congested. There's nothing wrong with your taste, @oldman!


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## oldman (Apr 12, 2020)

StarSong said:


> Traffic is down dramatically.  As @Getyoung said about his area, LA rush hour traffic also closely resembles non-holiday weekend (or summer beach weather) Sunday mornings.
> 
> Most West LA areas, Century City included, are very happening places with the best of the best of our weather. Of course that means they're also expensive, densely populated and highly congested. There's nothing wrong with your taste, @oldman!


I used to hear so much bad about the L.A. area, but I enjoyed every stay over when I flew out there and I have even vacationed out there. Century City just always appealed to me. Yes, I disliked the traffic on the 405, 5 and the 10, but other than that, I enjoyed my times out there. Burbank and Hollywood often fascinated me at night. The freak show in Hollywood was always entertaining. On Sundays, there was nothing like spending the day at Venice Beach. Talk about a freak show. I was out there a few years ago and I saw this real deep colored green building with a sign on it. I think it read, “Dr. Green.” You go in one door and see the “doctor” and he gives his so-called patient a prescription for MJ, then, you come out and go in the next door and get it filled. Funny stuff. I also liked the beaches. Huntington and Santa Monica are my favorites. The Beverly Hilton is a great place to stay and the drive up the PCH is the best, especially when stopping off at the many great towns along the way up to San Francisco. And that’s another favorite place of mine. I could go on and on, but I’m preaching to the choir. I’m starting to feel like I need to get back out there.


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## StarSong (Apr 12, 2020)

oldman said:


> I used to hear so much bad about the L.A. area, but I enjoyed every stay over when I flew out there and I have even vacationed out there. Century City just always appealed to me. Yes, I disliked the traffic on the 405, 5 and the 10, but other than that, I enjoyed my times out there. Burbank and Hollywood often fascinated me at night. The freak show in Hollywood was always entertaining. On Sundays, there was nothing like spending the day at Venice Beach. Talk about a freak show. I was out there a few years ago and I saw this real deep colored green building with a sign on it. I think it read, “Dr. Green.” You go in one door and see the “doctor” and he gives his so-called patient a prescription for MJ, then, you come out and go in the next door and get it filled. Funny stuff. I also liked the beaches. Huntington and Santa Monica are my favorites. The Beverly Hilton is a great place to stay and the drive up the PCH is the best, especially when stopping off at the many great towns along the way up to San Francisco. And that’s another favorite place of mine. I could go on and on, but I’m preaching to the choir. I’m starting to feel like I need to get back out there.


I also love L.A., and it warms me to read your positive reflections.


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## oldman (Apr 12, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I also love L.A., and it warms me to read your positive reflections.


My sister-in-law now lives in Orange County out by Anaheim Stadium. Surprisingly, it’s very quiet and not very busy in the part she lives. I walk from her place over to the stadium. We were there back when The Rolling Stones held a concert there. We sat outside and listened to the concert without being in the crowd.


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## Warrigal (Apr 12, 2020)

win231 said:


> "Lock Down?"  I've been going out every day ever since this started.  I've been visiting friends & bringing  my elderly friends food & supplies.  From the traffic, not many people are staying home, either.


Isn't California one of the states most severely affected by COVID19? If so, you really should adhere to the stay home request as much as possible. Hubby and I are limiting ourselves to one visit each to the shops per week. My state, NSW, is managing to force the infection transmission rate down because most people are complying with social isolation guidelines. Mistakes, including some bad ones concerning a cruise ship, were made at first but we have learnt fast and our hospitals are not being overwhelmed just now but if the restrictions are loosened too soon, we could be in bad trouble.


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## grahamg (Apr 12, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Isn't California one of the states most severely affected by COVID19? If so, you really should adhere to the stay home request as much as possible. Hubby and I are limiting ourselves to one visit each to the shops per week. My state, NSW, is managing to force the infection transmission rate down because most people are complying with social isolation guidelines. Mistakes, including some bad ones concerning a cruise ship, were made at first but we have learnt fast and our hospitals are not being overwhelmed just now but if the restrictions are loosened too soon, we could be in bad trouble.



Do you believe this virus can be eliminated from the world by any amount of lockdown affecting the general public, because "key workers" may still be passing it around, and some poorer, or wartorn countries in the world won't be able to follow best practise will they?


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## Warrigal (Apr 12, 2020)

Key workers are on the whole practising physical separation and the measures our governments have asked for are designed to buy precious time. In the end it will be vaccination that tames the pandemic. Hubby and I are grateful for everyone's co-operation because it is not an exaggeration to say our lives depend on the selflessness consideration of others.


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## grahamg (Apr 12, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Key workers are on the whole practising physical separation and the measures our governments have asked for are designed to buy precious time. In the end it will be vaccination that tames the pandemic. Hubby and I are grateful for everyone's co-operation because it is not an exaggeration to say our lives depend on the selflessness consideration of others.



I see, so if I understand you correctly(?) our world will have to accept a form of lockdown for as last long as it takes for an effective vaccine to be found, and manufactured is sufficient quantity (along with whatever "herd immunity" has been achieved in the me a time).
What percentage of the world economy might be lost whilst this is happening, assuming political pressure, and social unrest doesn't force a more risky move away from the "world lockdown" we have now?


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## Becky1951 (Apr 12, 2020)

grahamg said:


> I see, so if I understand you correctly(?) our world will have to accept a form of lockdown for as last long as it takes for an effective vaccine to be found, and manufactured is sufficient quantity (along with whatever "herd immunity" has been achieved in the me a time).
> What percentage of the world economy might be lost whilst this is happening, assuming political pressure, and social unrest doesn't force a more risky move away from the "world lockdown" we have now?


What percentage of lives would be lost if we do not accept some form of lockdown? 
No easy answer either way unfortunately.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 12, 2020)

I am pretty much always angry at my husband.  Now that he is home 24/7 and we are together 24/7, his nastiness is barely tolerable to me.  The only good thing about buying this old house is the projects, projects, projects.

He is out leveling out the yard, section by section, putting bricks around the fence so the dogs can‘t get out, and he has to remove a patio that drains towards the house and could cause flooding into our laundry room in heavy rain.

This area will be filled with raspberries.  You don’t need to buy  many plants as they will spread.  They also have thorns so they are also a security feature.  There are plenty of projects to keep us separate.  What am I doing?

Supervision-witch in charge, although witch could be spelled with a b.


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## Pepper (Apr 12, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> What percentage of lives would be lost if we do not accept some form of lockdown?


As of this date, the percentage of deaths from coronavirus in the United States is *0.00571428571429%*
Making Panic Absurd.  Precautions, Not Absurd.  Panic, Yes Absurd.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 12, 2020)

Pepper said:


> As of this date, the percentage of deaths from coronavirus in the United States is *0.00571428571429%*
> Making Panic Absurd.  Precautions, Not Absurd.  Panic, Yes Absurd.


Well, true be told, I’m often absurd.  I also have a panic disorder issue.  That makes me both panicked and absurd.  But at least I have toilet paper!


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## Pepper (Apr 12, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, true be told, I’m often absurd.  I also have a panic disorder issue.  That makes me both panicked and absurd.  But at least I have toilet paper!


Me too, often absurd and more often than not.  I also have panic issues.  But when it comes to the Really Big Issues, I am usually very logic driven and most definitely Unafraid.  As for toilet paper, Yes, Me Too!


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## Fiona (Apr 12, 2020)

Pepper said:


> As of this date, the percentage of deaths from coronavirus in the United States is *0.00571428571429%*
> Making Panic Absurd.  Precautions, Not Absurd.  Panic, Yes Absurd.



Sorry, Pepper, this looks wrong. I just took the current Worldometer figures—21,474 deaths out of 545,934 cases, in the US—and came up with a case fatality of 3.9%. Are you sure you remembered to multiply by 100 after doing the division? Or did you mean the percentage of ALL deaths? If so, over what time period?

But those numbers are misleading, in any case, because except for New York, the states aren't testing very many people. There may be a large number of undiagnosed mild cases who never go to the hospital.


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## Pepper (Apr 12, 2020)

I wasn't doing case fatality.  I was doing what percentage is 20,000 deaths out of a population of 3.5 million.  The population figure isn't too way off.

eta--3.9% shouldn't be enough to panic either.  As I said, precautions, yes.  Panic, no.


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## win231 (Apr 12, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Isn't California one of the states most severely affected by COVID19? If so, you really should adhere to the stay home request as much as possible. Hubby and I are limiting ourselves to one visit each to the shops per week. My state, NSW, is managing to force the infection transmission rate down because most people are complying with social isolation guidelines. Mistakes, including some bad ones concerning a cruise ship, were made at first but we have learnt fast and our hospitals are not being overwhelmed just now but if the restrictions are loosened too soon, we could be in bad trouble.


If I believed everything they're telling us, I would stay home.  But I don't.


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## Pepper (Apr 12, 2020)

win231 said:


> If I believed everything they're telling us, I would stay home.  But I don't.


The odds are heavily in your favor.


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## StarSong (Apr 12, 2020)

Pepper said:


> I wasn't doing case fatality.  I was doing what percentage is 20,000 deaths out of a population of 3.5 million.  The population figure isn't too way off.


What might it have been without social distancing?  At what point does it become worthwhile to pay attention to this? 
When it hits one's own family perhaps?

To look at it a different way, of a total (1933 census) German population of 65,000,000, the Nazis killed approximately 160,000 German Jews during their regime of terror, so 2/10 of 1% of the German population. Gee, what the heck was all the fuss about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_in_Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

I verified these figures with a number of sources but am citing Wikipedia because it's easy to find the census and other data there.


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## Pepper (Apr 12, 2020)

@StarSong 
What a dramatic, overblown comparison!  Godwin's Law!


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## Pepper (Apr 12, 2020)

Why quoting Wiki stuff as truth is potentially dangerous:  Came across this the other day by accident:
"The chief fearmonger of the Trump Administration is without a doubt Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health. Fauci is all over the media, serving up outright falsehoods to stir up even more panic. He testified to Congress that the death rate for the coronavirus is ten times that of the seasonal flu, a claim without any scientific basis. On Face the Nation, Fauci did his best to further damage an already tanking economy by stating, “Right now, personally, myself, I wouldn’t go to a restaurant.” He has pushed for closing the entire country down for 14 days. Over what? A virus that has thus far killed just over 5,000 worldwide and less than 100 in the United States? By contrast, tuberculosis, an old disease not much discussed these days, killed nearly 1.6 million people in 2017. Where’s the panic over this? If anything, what people like Fauci and the other fearmongers are demanding will likely make the disease worse."
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci

Was hoping it would be gone by now, but apparently not.  Not saying you gave wrong info @StarSong, just saying Wiki is potentially wacky.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 12, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @StarSong
> What a dramatic, overblown comparison!  Godwin's Law!


Well I have no ideal what Godwin”s Law is, but this is not a valid comparison IMO.  The virus doesn’t care who it kills, it is a virus.


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## win231 (Apr 12, 2020)

Pepper said:


> Why quoting Wiki stuff as truth is potentially dangerous:  Came across this the other day by accident:
> "The chief fearmonger of the Trump Administration is without a doubt Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health. Fauci is all over the media, serving up outright falsehoods to stir up even more panic. He testified to Congress that the death rate for the coronavirus is ten times that of the seasonal flu, a claim without any scientific basis. On Face the Nation, Fauci did his best to further damage an already tanking economy by stating, “Right now, personally, myself, I wouldn’t go to a restaurant.” He has pushed for closing the entire country down for 14 days. Over what? A virus that has thus far killed just over 5,000 worldwide and less than 100 in the United States? By contrast, tuberculosis, an old disease not much discussed these days, killed nearly 1.6 million people in 2017. Where’s the panic over this? If anything, what people like Fauci and the other fearmongers are demanding will likely make the disease worse."
> https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci
> 
> Was hoping it would be gone by now, but apparently not.  Not saying you gave wrong info @StarSong, just saying Wiki is potentially wacky.


Re:  Tuberculosis.  Tuberculosis is much easier to catch because it's airborne.  Most of us have been exposed to it.


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## grahamg (Apr 12, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> What percentage of lives would be lost if we do not accept some form of lockdown?
> No easy answer either way unfortunately.



My question as to the percentage of the world economy that might be lost, so what would be acceptable do you think? 50%?

How many lives lost is probably easier to provide an answer to, at least the high estimate I'd guess, but how much it can be reduced by developing more successful therapies is less certain. I agree with the current lockdown, "reluctantly" because it will delay the spread, I think that's established well enough. However, I doubt the world can tolerate this situation for many months.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 12, 2020)

Anyway get their government money yet?  I haven't.


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## StarSong (Apr 12, 2020)

As I said, I did verify with other sites including
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution
https://www.feldgrau.com/WW2-Germany-Statistics-and-Numbers

My point was that looking at death percentages for any given cause versus an entire population is pure folly.


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## win231 (Apr 12, 2020)

The CDC claims that the flu kills 290,000 - 650,000 people each year.  I don't know what the percentage works out to, but it seems Corona is not as dangerous, or at least no worse.  Either can be deadly in anyone.  In rare cases, without underlying conditions.
What's interesting is that there is a flu vaccine (whether it's effective is another story) & no Corona vaccine.
Traffic deaths are around 53,000 per year.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 12, 2020)

I think the point is that on top of all the other deaths from everything else we have to contend with, we/humanity now has these deaths on top of those.  I saw a report that NY usually has 25 deaths a day but now there are 250 a day.

At what point do the deaths surpass the births?  That’s what we have to worry about as a species, IMO. However, I am not getting pregnant.


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## win231 (Apr 12, 2020)

Aneeda72 said:


> I think the point is that on top of all the other deaths from everything else we have to contend with, we/humanity now has these deaths on top of those.  I saw a report that NY usually has 25 deaths a day but now there are 250 a day.
> 
> At what point do the deaths surpass the births?  That’s what we have to worry about as a species, IMO. However, I am not getting pregnant.


Me, neither.


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## Warrigal (Apr 12, 2020)

I find it sad to hear cavalier dismissal of avoidable deaths as trivial.

Hubby and I have had a discussion about what we will do should either of us become infected.
We have decided that as far as is possible we would like to stay at home with oxygen therapy to ease breathing but neither of us wants to go into intensive care with intubation. If we follow this approach it is almost certain that we will both die but that is our choice. On the other hand, if we insist on going out and about and we infect our friends and other strangers how selfish is that?

Talk of percentages is easy but the death of even one loved one, if it could have been prevented, is very hard. That is why people volunteer to patrol Australian beaches even though the number of people who drown each year is miniscule as a percentage of the total population. It is why bystanders call for an ambulance when someone is injured inside a car after a road accident. It is why some people learn first aid so that they might be able to do more than just make a phone call. 

How hard is it to just stay at home for the sake of our neighbours?


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## grahamg (Apr 12, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> I find it sad to hear cavalier dismissal of avoidable deaths as trivial.
> 
> Hubby and I have had a discussion about what we will do should either of us become infected.
> We have decided that as far as is possible we would like to stay at home with oxygen therapy to ease breathing but neither of us wants to go into intensive care with intubation. If we follow this approach it is almost certain that we will both die but that is our choice. On the other hand, if we insist on going out and about and we infect our friends and other strangers how selfish is that?
> ...



How hard will it be to face the loss of loved ones if the shutdown of the world economy results in more deaths by the ensuing poverty than this virus pandemic?

These kind of assessments are being made by the likes of professor Phillip Thomas, from Bristol university, whose expertise is in "risk management (he's been quoted in our newspapers).

Its worth thinking about announcements overnight concerning Spain and Italy, two countries suffering the worst infection rates, and numbers of deaths in the world, are about to relax their shutdowns a little, to allow some construction workers to return to work for example.


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## Warrigal (Apr 13, 2020)

We can rebuild economies and already businesses are adapting using 21st century technologies. If institutions as old as the churches can explore new ways of operation, so can commerce.

Every cloud has a silver lining. Currently air pollution is way down resulting in less deaths from acute asthma. Even the air above Beijing is clear and blue. I've seen it, and the air above Cairo earlier this century and it was horrendous in both cities.


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## grahamg (Apr 13, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> We can rebuild economies and already businesses are adapting using 21st century technologies. If institutions as old as the churches can explore new ways of operation, so can commerce.
> 
> Every cloud has a silver lining. Currently air pollution is way down resulting in less deaths from acute asthma. Even the air above Beijing is clear and blue. I've seen it, and the air above Cairo earlier this century and it was horrendous in both cities.



I accept your comments about environmental benefits, or potential future benefits, but beyond that I have to say I think you're being blaise about the consequences of the economic damage all this is causing (albeit reduced output and reductions in greenhouse gases go together).


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 13, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> I find it sad to hear cavalier dismissal of avoidable deaths as trivial.
> 
> Hubby and I have had a discussion about what we will do should either of us become infected.
> We have decided that as far as is possible we would like to stay at home with oxygen therapy to ease breathing but neither of us wants to go into intensive care with intubation. If we follow this approach it is almost certain that we will both die but that is our choice. On the other hand, if we insist on going out and about and we infect our friends and other strangers how selfish is that?
> ...


For some, it’s impossible to stay home.  I shop a lot to get what those in my family need.  It actually makes more sense for me to go as an elder.  I’m old enough to die and ready.  They are not.

Besides, I have the time to go store to store, they do not.  I can get some stuff on amazon as well. Slap a mask on, gloves, wipes in my car, 6 foot distancing, husband driving, and fight the good fight.  We can win this, it will pass, humanity will survive!


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## Warrigal (Apr 13, 2020)

Aneeda, what do you mean by fighting the good fight? Is it the virus you fight, or the crowds in the shops you frequent on behalf of your family? Are your family members OK with you putting your life at risk on their behalf? To shop for them?

There are other ways. I could shop for my family online, have the goods delivered to their addresses and then receive recompense directly by money transfer to my bank account.  In reality I don't need to do that because they can do their own shopping online. This is the 21st century and we have many options that our forebears did not.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 13, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Aneeda, what do you mean by fighting the good fight? Is it the virus you fight, or the crowds in the shops you frequent on behalf of your family? Are your family members OK with you putting your life at risk on their behalf? To shop for them?
> 
> There are other ways. I could shop for my family online, have the goods delivered to their addresses and then receive recompense directly by money transfer to my bank account.  In reality I don't need to do that because they can do their own shopping online. This is the 21st century and we have many options that our forebears did not.


Fighting the virus.  I stay away from crowded stores, shop early in the morning.  The risk is small and I am careful.  I make my husband be careful.  The family would prefer we stay home, but I would not stay anyway.

I don‘t take money from my family, never understood why people do that.  Money is nothing, family is everything.  Besides, I got the stimulus money coming.  None of us make over 100,000.  Will never understand how people make/get so much money.  Thanks for your concern.


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## Warrigal (Apr 13, 2020)

I offered to shop for a couple of the old ladies in my church. I let them know that I would be visiting a food market (that is not crowded) and asked for a shopping list. I shopped for all three of us but that was about 10 days ago. I will do the same in about 3 days. That will then be my outing for the next fortnight unless I need a script filled from the pharmacy. 

Social isolation is not an end in itself. The key to getting on top of the epidemic is to cut down its transmission rate. I heard today that the rate of new infections in Australia is now under 2%. When we can get it down to less than 1% we will have a good chance of eliminating it, or at the very least, keeping it under control. We're close, and now is not the time to stop what we have been doing.


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## moviequeen1 (Apr 13, 2020)

The idiot in the WH is my #1 choice to be angry with


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## Tommy (Apr 13, 2020)

win231 said:


> The CDC claims that the flu kills 290,000 - 650,000 people each year.


What is the source of these numbers, Win?  For the most recent nine completed flu seasons, the CDC estimates for flu and flu related deaths average 37,400 per year.  (CDC data linked below)  As of this morning the reported Covid-19 death toll in the US is just over 22,000.  That's 60% of the average annual deaths from influenza. Today, it has only been 44 days since the first Covid-19 death was reported in Kirkland, Washington. Sixty percent in only 44 days even WITH all of the extraordinary steps that have been taken and the body count keeps rising.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html


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## Ken N Tx (Apr 13, 2020)

Tommy said:


> What is the source of these numbers, Win?  For the most recent nine completed flu seasons, the CDC estimates for flu and flu related deaths average 37,400 per year.  (CDC data linked below)  As of this morning the reported Covid-19 death toll in the US is just over 22,000.  That's 60% of the average annual deaths from influenza. Today, it has only been 44 days since the first Covid-19 death was reported in Kirkland, Washington. Sixty percent in only 44 days even WITH all of the extraordinary steps that have been taken and the body count keeps rising.
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html


Great reply..I have tried to stop posting what I read on the web..


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## Pecos (Apr 13, 2020)

My wife and I express a fair amount of profanity at the TV set during news broadcasts. At some future point we will have to retrain ourselves to stop talking like angry Chief Boatswain Mates, but for now we release considerable frustration and hostility.

Thankfully, the two Bichons are unable to repeat what they hear us say, …… at least to the best of our knowledge.


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