# Pilot Layoffs



## oldman (Aug 27, 2020)

From what I have been reading, 950 pilots will be laid off at United when the bailout money runs out in early October. Delta has announced that 1700 pilots took early out packages, but another 2500 pilots will still have to go when their bailout money runs out. 

It's a shame how far the airline and particularly the travel industry has fallen. I think once we get the vaccine and the Virus somewhat relaxes on the public, we will see an uptick in fliers, or at least that's what I hope happens.


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## StarSong (Aug 27, 2020)

oldman said:


> It's a shame how far the airline and particularly the travel industry has fallen. I think once we get the vaccine and the Virus somewhat relaxes on the public, we will see an uptick in fliers, or at least that's what I hope happens.


I expect you're right.  
Hospitality, tourism and travel have been hit very hard since March. Understandably.


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## bingo (Aug 27, 2020)

Our son flies for delta....


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## MarciKS (Aug 27, 2020)

I wonder if they'll pile more flights on one pilot then. Usually when there's a shortage of workers the ones that are still there get more piled on them. That could mean a rise in plane crashes.


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## StarSong (Aug 27, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I wonder if they'll pile more flights on one pilot then. Usually when there's a shortage of workers the ones that are still there get more piled on them. That could mean a rise in plane crashes.


@oldman could verify if this is true of airline pilots.


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## Don M. (Aug 27, 2020)

Over the past few months, there have been pictures on the news of hundreds of commercial aircraft parked at some of the nations airports, due to lack of passengers.  As a result of this virus, virtually everything related to travel and tourist related activities has taken a real downturn.  If/when a workable treatment is found for this virus, it will still take a year, or more, for people to begin to return to anything resembling normal activities.  

If aircraft are grounded for a long time, and pilots are laid off, there will be an extended period of time before that industry can recover.


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## oldman (Aug 27, 2020)

bingo said:


> Our son flies for delta....


I flew 33 years for United.


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 27, 2020)

From what I understand revenue from business travel is the backbone of the airline industry.  I think that the pandemic coupled with modern technology will stunt the return of business travel permanently.

It's not just the pilots that are being impacted.  I have a friend with 25 years at American that is concerned about his future with the airlines. His length of service may help to protect him from layoffs but it may mean bumping another employee by transferring to a new location in another city.


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## oldman (Aug 27, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> I wonder if they'll pile more flights on one pilot then. Usually when there's a shortage of workers the ones that are still there get more piled on them. That could mean a rise in plane crashes.


The FAA recently released a new protocol for figuring hours. When I flew, we were only allowed to fly 10 hours in a day or up to 4 segments (legs). But, from what I understand, this has changed.

Pilots with the most seniority have first dibs at routes and hours. Also, those with the most seniority and have the most age, usually will be offered the early out packages in times when it made sense to do so. And, like Aunt Bea wrote, if you are up for lay-off, but could save your job by taking a transfer to a new home airport, you may have to move. My home airport when I retired was Washington D.C., but I did work out of Columbus, Ohio when I started flying with Air Wisconsin.

I also took an early out package, which I didn’t want to do, but couldn’t pass up the offer.

I feel bad for all of the motel maids, ubers, waters/waitresses, and anyone else in the travel business. I know several of them were laid off and are financially hurting.


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## FastTrax (Sep 6, 2020)

www.propilotmag.com/covid-19

www.tsa.gov


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## oldman (Sep 7, 2020)

Yes, this is all truly a shame for the travel industry and the good people that depended on it to make their living. For something that is completely out of their control, they are paying a heavy price. Not just those in the airline business, but hotels, car rentals, restaurants and any other type of business that is connected to the travel industry.

For pilots, this is a real bad situation. Just like any other trade, the person must do it routinely to be good at it. No one gets better at their job while sitting at home. It’s not that you forget how to do things, but being away from your job can knock you off your regimented style of doing things. You can miss the little things that may mean a lot.

I have seen pilots go off work for a surgery and be gone for 6-8 weeks and when they come back, they have to pause before they take any action. Fortunately, most airlines require pilots to spend “x” amount of hours in a simulator if they have been away from their job for a number of weeks. It makes perfect sense to do this.

Thanks for posting this.


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## oldman (Sep 7, 2020)

After watching the videos it dawned on me that I think these planes that have been sitting will have to go through an acceptance flight before returning to service. I know there were times when we would have a plane sitting for a day or so due to over capacity and the plane had to go through a check flight, which is somewhat different than an acceptance flight.

Several environmental issues can occur when planes are left sitting.


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## asp3 (Sep 7, 2020)

Unfortunately even once the travel industry can be running again many people have not been working and will not have the funds to start travelling again.  So I think the recovery of the travel industry will probably lag behind the rest of the economy.  This will probably hit places like Hawaii more than places that don't depend on the tourist industry quite as much.


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## jerry old (Sep 7, 2020)

Airlines and every other industry is in a quandary.

We are mystified by the social unrest in the nation; what has happened to our resolve and our ability to solve problems?
It is not the govt. it is the lack in our people.

Covis 19. is a problem, not a national  disaster, a problem-problems can be solved.

The school problem can be solved, we only have to find our grit.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 7, 2020)

My industry offshore oil production is all but dead. It was said on the local news this morning 60 % of small businesses will fail permanently.


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 7, 2020)

oldman said:


> From what I have been reading, 950 pilots will be laid off at United when the bailout money runs out in early October. Delta has announced that 1700 pilots took early out packages, but another 2500 pilots will still have to go when their bailout money runs out.
> 
> It's a shame how far the airline and particularly the travel industry has fallen. I think once we get the vaccine and the Virus somewhat relaxes on the public, we will see an uptick in fliers, or at least that's what I hope happens.


It's always sad to read about people losing work en masse. I have avoided flying for a long time. I definitely wouldn't want to fly now. How would such a reduction in pilots affect the ones who still work. Will it be a repeat of pilots who aren't able to get enough rest? Will passenger safety be compromised?


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## oldman (Sep 9, 2020)

Just saw on TV that United Airlines, the airline that I flew for and was intending to furlough almost 3000 pilots, has reached an agreement with the union to stay the furloughs for now. No details were available at this time, but I would imagine that United is planning to cut costs somewhere.

Whatever they decide will need to be voted on by the union members, but for now I am taking this as good news for my fellow airmen. I also hope that the F/A’s are able to continue working as well. They are all good people just trying to make a living like most of us did during our working years.

United Airlines


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## oldman (Sep 9, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> My industry offshore oil production is all but dead. It was said on the local news this morning 60 % of small businesses will fail permanently.


Did you work on one if the oil platforms in the Gulf?


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## Rosemarie (Sep 9, 2020)

I'm genuinely sorry that people are losing their jobs. However, a reduction in air travel will be good for the environment. Emissions from aircraft is a major cause of air pollution. Hopefully this will put paid to the plans to expand British airports.


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## oldman (Sep 9, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> I'm genuinely sorry that people are losing their jobs. However, a reduction in air travel will be good for the environment. Emissions from aircraft is a major cause of air pollution. Hopefully this will put paid to the plans to expand British airports.


The airline industry, along with the jet engine companies, Pratt & Whitney (P&W), GE, CFM and Rolls Royce have been working together to build more fuel efficient engines that will also reduce carbon emissions. The problem is it’s an endeavor that may not do much for reducing greenhouse gases. All the money that has been spent on producing newer engines hasn’t really made a huge effect.


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## FastTrax (Sep 9, 2020)

oldman said:


> The airline industry, along with the jet engine companies, Pratt & Whitney (P&W), GE, CFM and Rolls Royce have been working together to build more fuel efficient engines that will also reduce carbon emissions. The problem is it’s an endeavor that may not do much for reducing greenhouse gases. All the money that has been spent on producing newer engines hasn’t really made a huge effect.



Same with the CSX Gevo's.


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## oldman (Sep 29, 2020)

More bad news for the airlines industry. I read in my union magazine that United and American are really be hard hit. Last night I decided to call one of my friends still at United just to find out where he stands. He flies international and told me that he hasn't had a full plane since March. He just returned from the Netherlands and was thinking about maybe changing his routes to here in the U.S., but said that it's even worse. 

Tomorrow he leaves for London, then Paris and then back to Washington. A four day trip is always a good payday.


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 29, 2020)

The federal salary passthrough program expires on October 1st and will trigger an estimated 100,000 layoffs if it is not extended.

I have a friend that works for American and he says that the CEO of American estimates that they will need to layoff 19,000 if the program is not extended.

It's a tough call to have the government pay people full salary to work or pay people reduced unemployment benefits to sit at home.

IMO the program should be extended in some way to protect the US airline industry as a part of our countries national/strategic security.

So thankful that I'm a retired spectator in all of this.


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## Don M. (Sep 29, 2020)

Where we live seems to be a cross country path for several airliners.  I used to hear one passing overhead, at high altitude, several times a day when outdoors.  I liked to stop and see if I could spot that fast moving dot in the sky....usually able to do so only if they were leaving a contrail.  Now, I very rarely hear an aircraft...other than a couple of A-10's or a B-2 bomber from Whiteman AFB, about 50 miles away....and even those flights are becoming increasingly rare.  

We have been going to Las Vegas, in October, for several years....but with this virus still rampant, we are staying home this year.  Even SW Airlines, which we usually take, is reducing its number of flights.


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## oldman (Sep 29, 2020)

Today, I saw that United pilot's unions agreed to take fewer flights to keep more pilots working. United will spread out the workload. I thought that was a very nice thing to do. They didn't have to do that, but with the upcoming holiday season, it will keep at least a few faces happier and brighter. 

But, United is still going to cut out a lot of jobs including, flight attendants, mechanics and food services. They can do that only because they will continue to reduce the number of flights. 

I am afraid it's going to be a long road back from where they are.


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## oldman (Sep 29, 2020)

Aunt Bea said:


> The federal salary passthrough program expires on October 1st and will trigger an estimated 100,000 layoffs if it is not extended.
> 
> I have a friend that works for American and he says that the CEO of American estimates that they will need to layoff 19,000 if the program is not extended.
> 
> ...


I saw that government's new stimulus package will include money for the airlines. Maybe I am biased, but I do believe that this is an industry that needs to be saved, however, we need to get this virus under control. 

AA is hurting really badly and maybe even headed for bankruptcy.


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## oldman (Sep 29, 2020)

I don’t know in I should write the following story or not, but I was leafing through one of my journals and I came to this item, which is actually a bit humorous. From time to time, pilots and the flight attendants sometimes like to have a little fun with anyone on the flight crew that is new. Well, back in April of 1988, we had a new F/A in our flight crew, so we set her up.

Before 9-11, the Captain or the F/O was able to leave the flight deck. I decided this was as good a time as any to introduce our new, young F/A to the wonderful world of being a member on our flight crew. We were about 120 miles from our destination when I went to the back of the plane where she was just finishing up her duties before landing. I told her that we needed to do an “ozone check.” She looked at me with a puzzled look. I asked her if she didn’t learn that during her training and she answered no. So, I put on this act like I was disgusted.

I told her what I wanted her to do. I told her to take one of those huge garbage bags that we keep onboard to put all of the smaller garbage bags in after our trip has ended, open it up wide and then walk slowly down aisle while holding the bag open. When she reached the front of the cabin, she was to quickly twist the end closed and use a twisting tie to put around the end so it wouldn’t come open. I told her that when she heard over the PA that we were starting our final descent, she was to do what I explained to her. She was OK with doing this.

BTW, the other F/A’s were also in on this gag. When we were 80 miles from the airport, I announced that we were in our final descent and to make sure that their seat belts were tight and locked. I opened the door to the flight deck, so I could watch her. She did exactly as I had told her. When she reached the front of the cabin, all of the other F/A’s and myself were standing there with a broad smile on our face. She then knew that she had been had. Her face was redder than her hair.

I have more for another time.


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