# Not old enough ?



## IKE (Jul 5, 2022)




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## JaniceM (Jul 5, 2022)

IKE said:


> View attachment 227970


That's for sure.


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## win231 (Jul 5, 2022)

Whenever someone says _"No one can do this," _or _"No one is capable of doing this,"_
what they really mean is _"*I *can't do this,"_ or _*"I'm* not able to do this."_


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## HoneyNut (Jul 5, 2022)

I don't think soldiers are unsupervised untrained 19 yr olds with guns, in fact I think the military has to put quite a bit of effort into training them enough they don't accidentally shoot each other during practice.


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## Shalimar (Jul 5, 2022)

*Some of my vets joined CAF at seventeen. They were trained very carefully indeed.*


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## horseless carriage (Jul 5, 2022)

The 1969 Representation of the People’s Act, which lowered the UK age of enfranchisement (voting) to 18. The UK became the first democracy to lower the voting age to 18 and most of the rest of the world followed.

The UK had conscription, compulsory military service, up to 1960. It was always a bone of contention that an eighteen-year-old could die for his country at 18, but he couldn't vote for his choice of political party until he was 21. 

Not old enough? The slogan read, showing the headstone of a conscript killed in battle.


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## Lawrence (Jul 5, 2022)

When I was 19 and in Vietnam I was certified on the M-14 the M-16 and the M-60. I mostly fired the M-60 from my gun well in my helicopter.


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## hollydolly (Jul 5, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> The 1969 Representation of the People’s Act, which lowered the UK age of enfranchisement (voting) to 18. The UK became the first democracy to lower the voting age to 18 and most of the rest of the world followed.
> 
> The UK had conscription, compulsory military service, up to 1960. It was always a bone of contention that an eighteen-year-old could die for his country at 18, but he couldn't vote for his choice of political party until he was 21.
> 
> Not old enough? The slogan read, showing the headstone of a conscript killed in battle.


..or in fact old enough to drink alcohol  in a pub when the age was 21 at the time...


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## Alligatorob (Jul 5, 2022)

Thanks for the post @IKE a good reminder.  Those "kids" were too young to vote or drink, but not be drafted and given guns...

Whenever I see something like that I always think there but for the grace of god (and a very high draft number) goes I.


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## Been There (Jul 5, 2022)

Lawrence said:


> When I was 19 and in Vietnam I was certified on the M-14 the M-16 and the M-60. I mostly fired the M-60 from my gun well in my helicopter.


M-60 = the door gunner's best friend. 
By the way, is your avatar really a picture of you? It looks like Jeffrey Dahmer.


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## win231 (Jul 5, 2022)

Been There said:


> M-60 = the door gunner's best friend.
> By the way, is your avatar really a picture of you? It looks like Jeffrey Dahmer.


Has anyone ever told you you're kindhearted?


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## Murrmurr (Jul 5, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> I don't think soldiers are unsupervised untrained 19 yr olds with guns, in fact I think the military has to put quite a bit of effort into training them enough they don't accidentally shoot each other during practice.


Some states require at least the gun safety course course to purchase a firearm. Some states offer free use of a firing range during the first so-many-weeks of ownership and/or a new-owner discount membership to a firing range. Some state police departments offer free firearms training to any gun owner, beginner and intermediate.

There's really no excuse to not get training. I'd like to see it required nationwide.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 6, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> I don't think soldiers are unsupervised untrained 19 yr olds with guns, in fact I think _the military has to put quite a bit of effort into training them enough they don't accidentally shoot each other during practice._


Uhh, there's no way they can do that. Shooters are all facing one direction during practice. 

Maybe you mean during maneuvers?


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## Murrmurr (Jul 6, 2022)

IKE said:


> View attachment 227970



You might find this interesting;






If they aren't "old enough" when they sign up, they get Old Enough in a hurry.

.


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## Tish (Jul 6, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> You might find this interesting;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For sure.


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## Alligatorob (Jul 6, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> There's really no excuse to not get training. I'd like to see it required nationwide.


Absolutely!


Murrmurr said:


> Some states require at least the gun safety course course to purchase a firearm.


Not here, the only requirement is for young people to buy a hunting license.  And that only applies to youth, not to us.


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## oldman (Jul 6, 2022)

We were just about done with boot on the Island. I think we had 3 days remaining. I just couldn’t take it anymore. On that morning, we had just finished our run when I walked up to the Sergeant and asked him “How do I get one of those hats?” WOW! I thought my Sergeant was going to have a heart attack. He went off on me like a .50 caliber machine gun. He ranted non stop for a good 5 minutes. I learned a valuable lesson that day.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 6, 2022)

oldman said:


> We were just about done with boot on the Island. I think we had 3 days remaining. I just couldn’t take it anymore. On that morning, we had just finished our run when I walked up to the Sergeant and asked him “How do I get one of those hats?” WOW! I thought my Sergeant was going to have a heart attack. He went off on me like a .50 caliber machine gun. He ranted non stop for a good 5 minutes. I learned a valuable lesson that day.


My son called me from boot camp (Navy) to tell me enlisting was the biggest mistake of his life. Before I could turn around he was saying it was the best decision he'd ever made. Grant is a pacifist, but he fell in love with the training, his comrades and officers, everything he learned and experienced, and the man he became because of it.


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## HoneyNut (Jul 6, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> Uhh, there's no way they can do that. Shooters are all facing one direction during practice.
> 
> Maybe you mean during maneuvers?


Ha, I don't know the terminology at all, there was a time when I was young that I wanted to shoot an Uzi and the soldiers let me do it after boring me half to death trying (unsuccessfully) to make me learn the parts of the gun and how it works, and they also told me all the horror stories of guys getting killed in whatever it is (apparently 'maneuvers', tho they were not speaking English) and I mostly remember it as they described and gestured, which I think was about guys running in different directions and having to fire in opposite directions and sadly some guys running in the wrong direction, I think).

I had trouble just to remember to point the Uzi up when not firing.  I wanted so much to spray bullets but they only let me fire one bullet at a time.  Probably that was good judgement on their part, considering how belatedly I'd remember to point the gun upward.  They also told me a story of a guy who couldn't stop firing and the sargent had to crawl to him to stay under the bullets to reach him to help. 

Anyway, it left me with a strong impression that learning to be a soldier was pretty risky.


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## squatting dog (Jul 6, 2022)

Lawrence said:


> When I was 19 and in Vietnam I was certified on the M-14 the M-16 and the M-60. I mostly fired the M-60 from my gun well in my helicopter.


welcome home brother. 
Eye's sweep door gunner.


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## oldman (Jul 6, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> welcome home brother.
> Eye's sweep door gunner.
> 
> View attachment 228119


My Lt. told us that the life expectancy of a door gunner is one day.


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## Been There (Jul 7, 2022)

win231 said:


> Has anyone ever told you you're kindhearted?


Yes they have and thanks for the compliment. Men don't usually make statements like that to other me, but I appreciate it.


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## Manatee (Aug 26, 2022)

The drinking age in NY was 18, I owned a 12 gauge shotgun for hunting,  I was on the rifle team in  my Naval Reserve unit, but had to be 21 to vote.  I do not believe it is better now.


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## Been There (Aug 27, 2022)

Ask any Marine, one of the most important things they are taught is to kill.


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## JaniceM (Aug 27, 2022)

horseless carriage said:


> The 1969 Representation of the People’s Act, which lowered the UK age of enfranchisement (voting) to 18. The UK became the first democracy to lower the voting age to 18 and most of the rest of the world followed.
> 
> The UK had conscription, compulsory military service, up to 1960. It was always a bone of contention that an eighteen-year-old could die for his country at 18, but he couldn't vote for his choice of political party until he was 21.


Same here.  My brother was sent to Vietnam a few months before he was old enough to vote.  I never asked his opinion on that, but it always bugged me.


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## Been There (Aug 27, 2022)

We could by 3.2 beer in Ohio at 18. I never bought any of it. The voting age was a also 18. I missed going to Vietnam. Born too late. 
The law was changed in 1983. The legal drinking age then went to 19. Big deal, right? I never drank the stuff anyway. I never acquired a taste for beer. To purchase or drink wine or liquor, you must be 21.


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## JaniceM (Aug 28, 2022)

Been There said:


> We could by 3.2 beer in Ohio at 18. I never bought any of it. The voting age was a also 18. I missed going to Vietnam. Born too late.
> The law was changed in 1983. The legal drinking age then went to 19. Big deal, right? I never drank the stuff anyway. I never acquired a taste for beer. To purchase or drink wine or liquor, you must be 21.


I don't recall the year, but R.Reagan gave states the "options" of either raising drinking age to 21 or lose their highway funding.


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## ohioboy (Sep 5, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> I don't recall the year, but R.Reagan gave states the "options" of either raising drinking age to 21 or lose their highway funding.


That was not Reagan, that was Congress, resulting in South Dakota v. Dole. Elizabeth Dole was Secretary of Transportation.


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