# Do you believe you live in a racist nation?



## fuzzybuddy (Jun 7, 2020)

As far as the US is concerned, I would have to say yes. This is my opinion. What is yours? We live in a divided nation-black and white, Asian, Indian, etc. There is a white culture, which stays all white. Can you guess the race of a Country /Western  singer. It's no big secret whites harbor racists views. They interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly not live next to them. Blacks have their own culture, which stays black. Can you guess the race of a R&B/soul singer. They harbor racist views for other races.  They also harbor a great distrust of the police. They interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly do not live next to other races. We have almost two independent societies.  I believe it is difficult in the US for blacks and whites to shed racism. Both have unjustified fears and long, long traumatic histories.


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

haven't we always fuzzy? it's never going to end until people make a change for the better. it's sad.


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## C'est Moi (Jun 7, 2020)

Honestly, I believe ALL nations have a degree of racism.


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## applecruncher (Jun 7, 2020)

@fuzzybuddy

You are very mistaken about blacks & whites not living next to each other.

Also, the term black culture is ...debatable, at best.


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## Don M. (Jun 7, 2020)

"Racism" is, and always will be, endemic in human society. Virtually All races and societies believe they are superior to others.  This is NOT just a U.S. thing, but exists all over the world....I saw it in my time in Europe, and Thailand.  Racism extends as far back as human history, and I doubt it will ever be erased, until/unless there is a point in the distant future where interracial marriages create One race.  The Best society can hope for is a reasonable level of respect and tolerance.


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## Rosemarie (Jun 7, 2020)

Don M. said:


> "Racism" is, and always will be, endemic in human society. Virtually All races and societies believe they are superior to others.  This is NOT just a U.S. thing, but exists all over the world....I saw it in my time in Europe, and Thailand.  Racism extends as far back as human history, and I doubt it will ever be erased, until/unless there is a point in the distant future where interracial marriages create One race.  The Best society can hope for is a reasonable level of respect and tolerance.


You have stated what I was going to say. There is even racism in the Bible. Consider the attitude of the Jewish people towards non-Jews. Humans are part of the animal kingdom, and we have the same instincts as other animals. We are tribal and territorial. We feel threatened by those of  different tribes. This is at the root of what we term 'racism'.


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## Gary O' (Jun 7, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> You are very mistaken about blacks & whites not living next to each other.


Yup


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## raybar (Jun 7, 2020)

No. While you can find a few racist assholes anywhere you look, I do not believe that the U.S. is a racist country.


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## Keesha (Jun 7, 2020)

The answer I’d like to have for this question is ‘no’ but that would be unrealistic. While I live in the world’s most multicultural area, there still are racist and I believe there always will be. Reasons for this perceived superiority is as diverse as the weather but I think most people attitudes are reflections of their life experience.

My mom hates Japanese people. Her father was held prisoner and she held onto that resentment her entire life. She hated other races also. Being the daughter of someone with this mentality was horrible. The hate was so dark and deep it was like an endless pit . It was difficult sharing lives with adults who could hate so deeply. Hauntingly disturbing so I promised myself that I’d never be that way. It’s ugly.


To be honest, I was totally ignorant of how racist this world is until the last few weeks where I’ve had a chance to view people’s opinions on the subject and it’s so disheartened. I know I often view life with rose coloured glasses on but my heart drops when I read some stuff. One man said that every  race should have their own country. This is an area where the Internet has made us  less tolerant of others. ,Before people would do their own thing and not worry too much about what others were doing personally. Now with the use of the internet we get to judge each other more intimately since we now can.

I’d like to think we could all live in harmony together but birds of a feather, stick together so I don’t think much will change will change. Maybe it’s natural to want to stick up for your kind and I get that part. The part I don’t get is the hate. I can’t for the life of me wrap my head around that level of general hate about anything let alone a race of people.

As a kid I didn’t want to be in the popular group if that meant some couldn’t join. I was the kid being the friend to the other kid who didn’t fit in for whatever reason and I never regretted being that way. These relationships made a huge impact on my life since I realized that many others don’t fit in either, for whatever reason. These friends were not accepted by either of my parents so they weren’t allowed over but these friends made such an impact on my life and hopefully I was in theirs.

Where I live I wouldn’t notice any racism. If there is then people are really good at pretence however I’d be completely naive to believe there isn’t any. Every race experiences racism. It’s an embarrassing human character trait that some have adapted and I’m proudly NOT one of them.


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

i don't know about that raybar. given what's been going on as of late with gf's death i have to wonder.


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## gennie (Jun 7, 2020)

I'm American and yes it has been a problem since our beginning.  For a long while, overt racism was not socially accepted.  It went underground in polite society but it festered and grew and in the past few years, it has blossomed and it has now become OK to be loud and loud of your feelings.

 Racism and bigotry are learned behaviors.  Infants and very small children do not display either.  I thought that it was a generational problem and when older generations began to die off, the problem would lessen but evidently racists and bigots passed it along to their children.  It is alive and well and there are people in power who push it.


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

i love people no matter what color their skin is. i never grew up around other races so it's uncomfortable because i don't wanna unknowingly offend. and i have before on accident. my rule of thumb is that if someone is nice to me....i'm gonna be nice back no matter what color they are.


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## Lewkat (Jun 7, 2020)

In the Old Testament we learned that Egyptians used the Jews as slaves, so slavery is nothing new under the sun.  In the days before international travel, just about every European country was inhabited by caucasians.  When they first settled this nation, they saw Native Indians for the first time, and did their best to decimate them as it was not in their culture to accept these differences.  In Asia, nearly everyone had a yellowish cast to his/her skin and Africa had different shades of black and brown.  Along came more Europeans bringing their whiteness with them and there were many problems afoot.  But, when young America brought African slaves to America, it was the scandal of the millennia.  Thus began one of the worst periods in our history until today.  The slavery mentality just cannot escape the African American for whatever reason and we resent it since we fought a terrible war, spilled blood to gain their freedom and we are still hearing that we are white supremecists.  South Africa is still unhappy over the terrible Apatheid uprising and America is facing a similar situation.  Slavery is very much alive in Africa and Asia and wherever anyone can get away with it.  What does this say about the human condition?  So, yes, racism will continue and I doubt there is a solution in sight other than we learn to simply tolerate each other.


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## Laurie (Jun 7, 2020)

Not since I came to Scotland.

Been here since 1957 and have only been subject to racism twice, both times because the perps thought I was English.

When I lived in England I was subject to racist remarks most every day.  They even arrested me for wearing my national emblem on my national saint's day. 

When I protest about racism it's personal!


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 7, 2020)

If the human race was a bowl of M&Ms I would love them all equally but if the human race was a bowl of jelly beans I would love some more than I love others.

I realize that is a silly and frivolous response to a serious subject but we all have a bias in one form or another on everything in our lives.

What people perceive is what people believe and if someone believes that I'm a racist or that we live in a racist country then it's true to that person at that time.

We should all make an effort to control any bias we have and get along with everyone we meet.


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## JaniceM (Jun 7, 2020)

MarciKS said:


> haven't we always fuzzy? it's never going to end until people make a change for the better. it's sad.


And changing for the better would need to include getting rid of this 'everybody has their own Culture' and teaching 'diversity' (differences) in schools.


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## JaniceM (Jun 7, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> As far as the US is concerned, I would have to say yes. This is my opinion. What is yours? We live in a divided nation-black and white, Asian, Indian, etc. There is a white culture, which stays all white. Can you guess the race of a Country /Western  singer. It's no big secret whites harbor racists views. They interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly not live next to them. Blacks have their own culture, which stays black. Can you guess the race of a R&B/soul singer. They harbor racist views for other races.  They also harbor a great distrust of the police. They interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly do not live next to other races. We have almost two independent societies.  I believe it is difficult in the US for blacks and whites to shed racism. Both have unjustified fears and long, long traumatic histories.


Start with this:  define 'white culture.'  
Think of how many foreign countries that are predominately white, had immigrants landing in the U.S. over the centuries.  England, Scotland, Sweden, Germany, France, the Netherlands, and so forth and so forth...  
Which of those countries or other countries do you believe describes the 'white culture' in the U.S.???  

As only one example, German-Americans and Dutch-Americans are as radically different in terms of attitudes, beliefs, etc., as two groups could possibly be..  yet both are 'white.'  

So what exactly do you consider to be 'white culture'???


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## Knight (Jun 7, 2020)

I don't believe I live in a racist nation. I live in a nation where some people  have racist views.  Is this unique to my nation "America" plain & simple no.


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## JustBonee (Jun 7, 2020)

"So what exactly do you consider to be 'white culture'???"  ....  good question!

I have friends of many races  and I  like it that way!   .... I've been told by a black friend that I'm not white anyway,  since I'm Italian,  Greek and Russian.   
I've never stayed up at night worrying about it ..lol


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## Ruth n Jersey (Jun 7, 2020)

Unfortunately I think we do. At least the area where I grew up and live now seems to be accepting of all races.
The only time I personally became aware of racism was when I was working.The nursing home where I worked hired summer help. One girl I particularly enjoyed working with was black. We were the same age and had many of the same interests. I was already a practical nurse and she was studying to be a nurse.
We became very good friends. We hung out together on our days off and had great times together.
Soon the summer was over and she was going back to Florida where her mom lived. 
I asked her for her address and said I would visit. 
She shocked me when she said,"  Girl,do you want to get your head shot off?" I couldn't understand. She actually had to explain it to me. 
It seems she lived in a black community where I definitely wouldn't be welcome.
We said our tearful goodbyes and I thought"I lost a good friend just because of skin color."


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## JaniceM (Jun 7, 2020)

Laurie said:


> When I protest about racism it's personal!



Same here.


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## JustBonee (Jun 7, 2020)

If only older people could be 'color blind'  like the younger generation is ...   kids in general are very loving of all people until they are taught otherwise.


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## JaniceM (Jun 7, 2020)

Well, I stand with the same beliefs I've always had:
To dislike/distrust/not want to associate with/etc. fellow human beings simply because of the color of their skin or where their ancestors came from, is flat-out stupid.  And it's also flat-out stupid for anyone to consider themselves above or better than other human beings over skin color or ancestral heritage.  
Even now, I cannot understand how people can be so ignorant-  but as some posts here say, such attitudes/beliefs are _taught.  _


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## Robert59 (Jun 7, 2020)

I lived near Detroit for 34 years and what a experience that's all I can say.

I think Brazil is a mixed country with very little race problems.


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

Friend I had in NY said it didn't take much to get mugged if you were out after dark. Never said if there was any racial stuff involved in it.


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## peppermint (Jun 7, 2020)

My family was never racist....For instance...My Dad was in the National Guard....He would bring home anyone to have dinner with us...
My favorite was a Black Man...this man was 4 more feet then my Dad....Dad would take him home for dinner every so often...He was
not married, he lived in an apartment....The 2 of them were very nice friends....My Dad would bring in his Best friend, he was Mexican...
He married a White lady and were my young baby brother's baptisim...They were Catholic....Martin was a great man....They are all gone
to heaven.....I had a great childhood....We had a big family of cousins and Aunt's and Uncle's....Not one of them are alive....
Very Sad….


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

My dad was a big ol racist. Not sure why. It's sometimes embarrassing to be somewhere with him when he starts making comments. *SMH*


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## Judycat (Jun 7, 2020)

My mom was racist, my dad wasn't. My aunt, my mom's sister, was racist and so is my brother and his family. My husband was racist and his dad was a damn bigot. These people had no reason to be racist they just felt more comfortable being racist. So I'm not expecting any big changes ahead. It's really difficult getting ignorant people to see and admit their ignorance, they need to do that to change. Good luck with that.


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## C'est Moi (Jun 7, 2020)

Laurie said:


> Not since I came to Scotland.
> 
> Been here since 1957 and have only been subject to racism twice, both times because the perps thought I was English.
> 
> ...


But aren't English and Scots the same race?   How could that be "racism?"


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## Pecos (Jun 7, 2020)

I live in South Carolina and the racism I've seen in this state has not improved in the 25 years we have lived here.


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## CarolfromTX (Jun 7, 2020)

I believe racists come in all colors. Does racism exist here? Yes. But I go out every day, and I see couples of different races, I see people getting along and being polite, and I rarely see overt racism. Sure, you don't know what people are thinking. Once, when I was teaching, I was asked by someone in an official capacity how many black students I had, and how many Hispanic, and how many white. I'd no idea. I had to sit down with a class list and picture their little faces, and classify them by race. If he had asked how many boys and how many girls, I could have told him right away. If he had asked how many special ed kids I had, I could have told him. If he had asked me for the three brightest kids, I could have told him. I realized that I just didn't "classify" kids by race. I just didn't, because it wasn't important. And what about the mixed race kids? Because I had some of those too. If only we could focus on commonalities.


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## fmdog44 (Jun 7, 2020)

All countries even stiff dictatorships like North Korea have differences of opinions simply because it is in our DNA to see things differently from each other. In most countries opinions are allowed to be heard and like fingerprints our minds are unique. The description "racist nation" applies to apartheid race based governments like the former South Africa and Hitler's Germany among others. Even though race was written in to our laws at one time it did not apply to all states so while racism plays are part in our daily lives somewhere we are not a racist nation.


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## fmdog44 (Jun 7, 2020)

Pecos said:


> I live in South Carolina and the racism I've seen in this state has not improved in the 25 years we have lived here.


Have any of your laws addressing race changed there?


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

I think it's sad that all races can't figure out how to work together and use their talents together for the good of the world instead of tearing it down with hate.


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## rkunsaw (Jun 7, 2020)

I remember the  separate drinking fountains from my early years but they were gone by my teen years. Black people usually sat in the back of the bus but they didn't always. Nobody really paid much attention. Racism existed but I think Fort Smith was less racist that most of Arkansas. We had separate schools and I always thought they were "Equal but Separate" but later on I was working with a man whom had gone to the black school. He said when the white school got new equipment their old equipment went to the black school.

The above has changed a lot since my youth. Race relations had improved so much I thought racism would be over in ashort time. But too many people were making a good living stirring thing up so that they are worse than they were in many ways.

Personally I have removed race from my thoughts about people. I have black friends and I have dated a black woman.


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

rkunsaw said:


> I remember the  separate drinking fountains from my early years but they were gone by my teen years. Black people usually sat in the back of the bus but they didn't always. Nobody really paid much attention. Racism existed but I think Fort Smith was less racist that most of Arkansas. We had separate schools and I always thought they were "Equal but Separate" but later on I was working with a man whom had gone to the black school. He said when the white school got new equipment their old equipment went to the black school.
> 
> The above has changed a lot since my youth. Race relations had improved so much I thought racism would be over in ashort time. But too many people were making a good living stirring thing up so that they are worse than they were in many ways.
> 
> Personally I have removed race from my thoughts about people. I have black friends and I have dated a black woman.


My mom was so tore up about the fact that the colored kids had to sit at the back of the bus. She got pissed one day and sat back there with them. I would've, too. I have people of different races in my current life that I happen to like. And I don't necessarily see their color per se but, they have certain qualities that make them interesting to me.


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## RadishRose (Jun 7, 2020)

Only one uncle of several was racist, he claimed he turned when he was in the war.

I had one cousin who was racist when her police-officer husband had to work the riots in Newark a long time ago. I don't think she was before that. I was a lot younger so I really don't know.

My elderly aunt used to tell her 3 daughters not to date Italians because they carried knives, and besides, they might even be Gypsies! Her oldest did marry an Italian man and she was dam lucky to get him.

Nothing more.


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

Yes and many people will take one incident RR and judge an entire group by that one incident. You can't do that. Just because one man does something doesn't mean they all will.


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## peppermint (Jun 7, 2020)

Pecos said:


> I live in South Carolina and the racism I've seen in this state has not improved in the 25 years we have lived here.


I haven't seen that, pecos….I was just there for 5 months....We haven't had any racism in our area....Many Black people are very friendly
in the super Markets... also some in our area... I'm from New Jersey....A different State....I would rather move to So. Carolina....


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

We have a lot of blacks at the hospital that are perfectly wonderful people.


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## squatting dog (Jun 7, 2020)

No.


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## peppermint (Jun 7, 2020)

RadishRose said:


> Only one uncle of several was racist, he claimed he turned when he was in the war.
> 
> I had one cousin who was racist when her police-officer husband had to work the riots in Newark a long time ago. I don't think she was before that. I was a lot younger so I really don't know.
> 
> ...


Hi RadishRose...I.m laughing about (Italians you mentioned)...I'm Italian through and through....So is my husband... are kids also are Italian...
Except my daughter married a German, decent man...Who always said he rather be Italian....

I remember my dad telling about how hard it was being Italian in those horrible days....Dad had 3 brothers and 6 sisters....I remember going to
my Grandma's house....My Grandpa was not alive....He was run down in the street when he was in his Forties...So Grandma had to take care
of the kids....Some Aunts were married by then....My Dad came from a poor family...I never knew that until I was in my teens....So my Dad
never was a bigot....He was in the National Guard for 40 some ode years....Would bring home anyone who needed help or a meal...
My Dad had only 1 eye....when he was born he got the measles...it hit his other eye and never came back....He became an armorer and
took care of that for many years, he also was a painter for homes...That's how he made a living for my brother, me and my younger brother..
I can go on...but I had a great childhood...


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## Pecos (Jun 7, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Have any of your laws addressing race changed there?


If they have changed, I have not noticed any meaningful change in the way law enforcement is used.


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## Warrigal (Jun 7, 2020)

Speaking as an Australian, the answer is YES.
We are moving towards the light but at glacial speed.

One of my favourite Australian authors, the late Frank Hardy, said 'scratch an Australian and underneath you will discover a racist'. He was, of course speaking of white Anglo Aussies like me and my family. He wasn't wrong when he said these words. I have taken them to heart and have shifted internally. Still, I sometimes judge people according to their cultural origins. At least I can recognise what I am doing now. When I was young I had no idea.


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## RadishRose (Jun 7, 2020)

peppermint said:


> Hi RadishRose...I.m laughing about (Italians you mentioned)...I'm Italian through and through....So is my husband... are kids also are Italian...
> Except my daughter married a German, decent man...Who always said he rather be Italian....
> 
> I remember my dad telling about how hard it was being Italian in those horrible days....Dad had 3 brothers and 6 sisters....I remember going to
> ...


Lol.....You crossed my mind when I wrote that. I grew up with a lot of Italian kids. I thought I was Italian too! (I'm not) That aunt I was talking about lived in PA, where we live in CT.  I didn't find out about her prejudice until I was grown.


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## Judycat (Jun 7, 2020)

Yeah we had the Klan active around where I live. They bought an historic restaurant in a town 10 miles away and were recruiting for a while. They like using rural areas like this to spread their propaganda. Was public knowledge, on the news, couple of protests, then they faded away. I hope from lack of interest.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 7, 2020)

The animals aren't racist; they all love one another mostly except when hunting for food--but they do that to survive.  We have no reason to be racist.  Yes, there are people who are racist, there is one where I live who openly calls the blacks here by the "N" word.  I couldn't believe it when I heard him talk that way!  I have also encountered many others over my life time who talked the same way.  They actually sound very ignorant to me.

My dear departed husband was a black man and we encountered some problems but we did not go out a lot.  He also went out alone a lot.  I wanted to go with him on a trip to Georgia in the early 80s and he said there would be big problems if I went with him as he explained there was lots of racism down there at that time.  So, I didn't go.  We did take a trip to New York and that went okay.  

I think things have certainly improved for people who aren't classified as "white" in terms of getting a fair chance to move up in society but know there needs to be more education given to the ignorant who are racist.  In college everyone was required to take Black Studies classes.  A lot of the things I read that blacks endured had me crying.


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## Sassycakes (Jun 7, 2020)

peppermint said:


> My family was never racist....For instance...My Dad was in the National Guard....He would bring home anyone to have dinner with us...
> My favorite was a Black Man...this man was 4 more feet then my Dad....Dad would take him home for dinner every so often...He was
> not married, he lived in an apartment....The 2 of them were very nice friends....My Dad would bring in his Best friend, he was Mexican...
> He married a White lady and were my young baby brother's baptisim...They were Catholic....Martin was a great man....They are all gone
> ...



*Peppermint, your Dad reminds me of my Dad. He wasn't racist at all and that as the way I was raised. He had a friend named Harris that visited us all the time. My Husband has a friend named Craig and he always says that my Husband was better to him than his own Dad was. It's funny because I'm Italian and my husband is Irish. His Mom would always say that she hated the Italians,but not me. She said I was better to her than her own daughters.*


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## Gary O' (Jun 7, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> I think Brazil is a mixed country with very little race problems.


Yeah, they've got enough goin' on with their government


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## treeguy64 (Jun 7, 2020)

Having grown up in a very integrated part of Chicago, choosing to live in integrated neighborhoods, working jobs where my coworkers were of all races, I can't say that the US is a racist nation, to a large extent, as I've experienced it.  

In fact, the op uses poor examples, with the music biz:  There have been black C&W singers and musicians, more than a few white R&B singers and musicians.  The music business has been ahead of the curve, integration-wise, for most of its existence in the US.  Yeah, Minstrel Shows were disgusting, but one of the most famous headliners was black. (See: Williams and Walker.)  

FWIW: My next door neighbors, on both sides, are Hispanic, my across the street neighbors are black, two doors down, my neighbors are Arabic.  Variety keeps things interesting.  Interesting to meditate on that as I consider a move to a small town in Colorado that's 97% white.

Uh-oh......


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## MarciKS (Jun 7, 2020)

Variety is a good thing. If they could just use that for the betterment of society it would be great.


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## Warrigal (Jun 7, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> But aren't English and Scots the same race?   How could that be "racism?"


Race isn't really a thing. Genetically humans are all one species with what used to be localised variations. In the past people talked about lesser races and this could mean that the Celts were inferior to the Anglo Normans, or the Jews of Europe to the so called Aryan race. It isn't about race; it is about differences and very slight ones at that.

Today we wouldn't think of the former example (Celts v Anglos) as racism but we would probably consider the second example (relating to religion), like Apartheid, to be racist.  Today most racism is skin colour or eye shape. When these attitudes are the foundations for discrimination they need to be recognised as a major problem.

It doesn't help to be debating what racism is. We need to attack the disadvantage that is its fellow traveller. We must learn from last century and do better in this one.


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## C'est Moi (Jun 7, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Race isn't really a thing. Genetically humans are all one species with what used to be localised variations. In the past people talked about lesser races and this could mean that the Celts were inferior to the Anglo Normans, or the Jews of Europe to the so called Aryan race. It isn't about race; it is about differences and very slight ones at that.
> 
> Today we wouldn't think of the former example (Celts v Anglos) as racism but we would probably consider the second example (relating to religion), like Apartheid, to be racist.  Today most racism is skin colour or eye shape. When these attitudes are the foundations for discrimination they need to be recognised as a major problem.
> 
> It doesn't help to be debating what racism is. We need to attack the disadvantage that is its fellow traveller. We must learn from last century and do better in this one.


I beg your pardon, but if "race isn't really a thing" then why are there "racists?"   Not buying what you're selling.


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## Gary O' (Jun 8, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> The animals aren't racist; they all love one another mostly except when hunting for food--but they do that to survive.



I got a kick outa that statement

No, they're not racists
They'll eat each other if they're hungry enough


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## Warrigal (Jun 8, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> I beg your pardon, but if "race isn't really a thing" then why are there "racists?"   Not buying what you're selling.


Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The concept of race is not a scientific one. It is a social or cultural construct. This article explains what I was referring to better than I did.

https://www.thoughtco.com/scientific-vs-social-definition-of-race-2834954

*



			Scientific and Social Definitions of Race 
Debunking the Ideas Behind This Construct
		
Click to expand...

*


> It's a common belief that race can be broken down into three categories: Negroid, Mongoloid and Caucasoid. *But according to science, that's not so*. While the American concept of race took off in the late 1600s and persists even today, researchers now argue that there’s no scientific basis for race. So, what exactly is race, and what are its origins?
> 
> *The Difficulty of Grouping People Into Races  *





> According to John H. Relethford, author of _The Fundamentals of Biological Anthropology_, race “is a group of populations that share some biological characteristics….These populations differ from other groups of populations according to these characteristics.”
> 
> Scientists can divide some organisms into racial categories easier than others, such as those which remain isolated from one another in different environments. In contrast, the race concept doesn’t work so well with humans. That’s because not only do humans live in a wide range of environments, they also travel back and forth between them. As a result, there’s a high degree of gene flow among people groups that make it hard to organize them into discrete categories.
> 
> ...


There is more to the article but it is lengthy. The basic point is that all humans belong to the same identifiable group and that group is our species, home sapiens.

Why are there racists? IMO because they believe in the concept of race and believe that their 'race' is superior to other races. They see members of these 'other races' as being a threat to them and their way of life. They fear contamination of their gene pool.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 8, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The concept of race is not a scientific one. It is a social or cultural construct. This article explains what I was referring to better than I did.
> 
> https://www.thoughtco.com/scientific-vs-social-definition-of-race-2834954
> 
> ...


I agree with all of that in the article.  And we all are homo sapiens, humans.  The racial terms should be thrown out but they are so ingrained in society it would be hard to do.  Yet, it should be done and required education should be taught to all on the subject.


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## C'est Moi (Jun 8, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The concept of race is not a scientific one. It is a social or cultural construct. This article explains what I was referring to better than I did.
> 
> https://www.thoughtco.com/scientific-vs-social-definition-of-race-2834954
> 
> ...


All this because I questioned whether English and Scots are not the same race??   I suppose we can post "dueling references," so here you go.   https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/topics/reference/race-ethnicity/

_Race and ethnicity are two concepts related to human ancestry. Race is defined as “a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits.” The term ethnicities is more broadly defined as “large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background.”
“Race” is usually associated with biology and linked with physical characteristics such as skin color or hair texture. “Ethnicity” is linked with cultural expression and identification. However, both are social constructs used to categorize and characterize seemingly distinct populations._


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## Warrigal (Jun 8, 2020)

I'm not duelling with you, C'est moi. I have simply expressed a different view point on the subject of race, but not about racism.

Vas en paix


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## Gary O' (Jun 8, 2020)

*Do you believe you live in a racist nation?*

Nation?
Crap, I live in a racist world
Maybe not KKK racist, but race conscious....to the point of obnoxious 

Try living where folks are different than you
Gets unnerving to be stared at 24/7

......and as far as social habits?
Different folks have different habits

Lived with folks with different habits
It was interesting..... for awhile
Then I yearned for my own creature habits

Still, I've had close buds of many flavors
Close enough to kid the crap outa each other

If I didn't have them, life would be too dull, non-dimensional 
One flavor, no matter how you like it, gets monotonous

As far as haters?
There is really no place for them
Not in my world


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## JaniceM (Jun 8, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> All this because I questioned whether English and Scots are not the same race??   I suppose we can post "dueling references," so here you go.   https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/topics/reference/race-ethnicity/
> 
> _Race and ethnicity are two concepts related to human ancestry. Race is defined as “a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits.” The term ethnicities is more broadly defined as “large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background.”
> “Race” is usually associated with biology and linked with physical characteristics such as skin color or hair texture. “Ethnicity” is linked with cultural expression and identification. However, both are social constructs used to categorize and characterize seemingly distinct populations._


That is an excellent article-  thank you for posting the link!!!!!!!!


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 8, 2020)

I'm a 74 year old retired Nurse. I'm a white person. When it comes to political persuaions, I am not a liberal. I am a* LIBERAL*. But I do have racist feelings. I never really used "N" for black, it's silently in my head. I don't know why or how I have those feelings. Both my parents drilled it into me that black people were people just like me, no better, no worse. I came from a small town in Massachsetts, and actually never saw a living black, in person, until I went into the US Navy, when I was 22. And it's hard not to notice a black person. I didn't get to work with blacks until I was a charge nurse. Then soon, they weren't black people, but Lloyd, Hank, Mary.............. Yet, when I'm surrounded by blacks, I feel unsettled. I want to be with "my own kind". I don't have Confederate battle flags flying over my home, and I wouldn't harm someome over his skin color, but I do have to admit I have those feelings.


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## Rosemarie (Jun 8, 2020)

Knight said:


> I don't believe I live in a racist nation. I live in a nation where some people  have racist views.  Is this unique to my nation "America" plain & simple no.


That is a very good way of putting it. The current riots seem intended to provoke anti-white feeling. Sadly, there are too many people who get involved in this sort of thing with good intentions, but having no idea of the possible consequences.


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## Pecos (Jun 8, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> That is a very good way of putting it. The current riots seem intended to provoke anti-white feeling. Sadly, there are too many people who get involved in this sort of thing with good intentions, but having no idea of the possible consequences.


I see an important difference between "rioters" and "protesters."


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## JimBob1952 (Jun 8, 2020)

I have almost no contact with black people.  No  black neighbors, no black acquaintances.  My church is in the middle of a city that's half black, but the congregation is nearly all white.  Aside from some construction jobs during college summers, I have never really worked with any black people.  

I can't claim any insight into what black people go through or what is on their minds.


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## treeguy64 (Jun 8, 2020)

I lived the black experience, to an extent, as a younger guy. I went to a school that was 87% black. I got along. I had white girlfriends, I had black girlfriends.

A true story: I drove Yellow Cab out of 51st & Cottage Grove, Chicago. There were three white guys, I was one of them. The second in command, a black guy, was "Downy." I came in to get my cab on Tuesday. Downy started yelling at me, immediately, about some garage violations I had done, the day before. Thing is, I hadn't worked the day before! All the guys had crowded around the cage, listening to Downy chew me out. I told him to back off, and check his roll for the day before. He looked, and got this sheepish expression. Now, I closed in for the kill, with all the guys listening: "Thas awright, Downy, we smooth. 'Sides, you know what they be sayin' man, (he leaned into the slot to hear me, better) 'We all look alike!"' The place went up for grabs, with all the guys howling and slipping five! I got in my cab, and peeled out.

To this day, the above is one of my favorite memories. I have another ten, or so.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 10, 2020)

I think you have to ask how many blacks live on your street. If there aren't any, do you know  where they  do live? Then you have to ask how many Latvian- Americans live on your street? If you don't know, do you know where they do live. Why the difference?


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## Pecos (Jun 10, 2020)

rkunsaw said:


> I remember the  separate drinking fountains from my early years but they were gone by my teen years. Black people usually sat in the back of the bus but they didn't always.


I was shocked when I transferred from a Navy base in California to Virginia in 1961 and encountered separate restrooms and drinking fountains for black people. Norfolk, Newport News, Portsmouth, and Virginia Beach all did it. I also saw posted signs in Newport News stating "Sailors and Dogs Keep Off The Grass." This was in a town whose main industry was the Shipyard where the Navy was the biggest customer.


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## Pecos (Jun 10, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> I think you have to ask how many blacks live on your street. If there aren't any, do you know  where they  do live? Then you have to ask how many Latvian- Americans live on your street? If you don't know, do you know where they do live. Why the difference?


In our small subdivision we have one black family where the father was vice president of our homeowners association for over 20 years. (He is still here, but in poor health.) We also had a lovely young black family who used to live two doors down from us. Their charming eight year old daughter was my ice cream buddy and got home from school about the same time that I got home from work. We ate ice cream bars on my porch every afternoon. I missed them when they moved.


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## Sunny (Jun 10, 2020)

> I think you have to ask how many blacks live on your street. If there aren't any, do you know  where they  do live? Then you have to ask how many Latvian- Americans live on your street? If you don't know, do you know where they do live. Why the difference?



I don't really get this question. You seem to be assuming that there are no blacks on my street.

I live in a large hi-rise in a retirement community. We have mixed races, religions, people of every color and ethnicity under the sun.  Asking "Where do the blacks live?"  is totally meaningless here. Of the 20 or so apartments on my floor, probably about 5-6 are occupied by black people. So what?

(From my experience here, I have to say the blacks are my favorite neighbors. They are universally friendly, kind, sweet people. I can say that without exception!)


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 10, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> As far as the US is concerned, I would have to say yes. This is my opinion. What is yours? We live in a divided nation-black and white, Asian, Indian, etc. There is a white culture, which stays all white. Can you guess the race of a Country /Western  singer. It's no big secret whites harbor racists views. They interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly not live next to them. Blacks have their own culture, which stays black. Can you guess the race of a R&B/soul singer. They harbor racist views for other races.  They also harbor a great distrust of the police. They interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly do not live next to other races. We have almost two independent societies.  I believe it is difficult in the US for blacks and whites to shed racism. Both have unjustified fears and long, long traumatic histories.


I believe segregation builds solidarity and, sadly sometimes, the "us versus them" mentality. When I bought my first house, I purposely sought a diverse community.  It was enriching and we all shared our histories, our cultures, our trials and tribulations, and our recipes.

I wasn't raised by racists and wasn't taught to be a racist.  That's one thing from my childhood that I actually appreciate.  Growing up, we enjoyed the company of many different races and cultures in our home.  

As a former teacher of young children, I know in my heart that they are not born racists - It is taught by parents.  They instill children with fear of differences and the notion that some are superior to others.


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## peppermint (Jun 10, 2020)

So people.... When I worked in a high School there were only white kids when it opened....We did after 1 year or so, people were coming from
other towns, most were black....There was never any problems in our school....We also had a couple of Black Teacher's....I have to tell you
The one year when my grandson was the Captain of the Football Team in his last year....There were many Black boy's that also played
Football...There was never a problem with the kids....The Mom's would always bring food for the team when they played....The Mom's
that were Black were always polite and made friend's with some of the Mom's....One of the Mom's was my daughter in law....
My Grandson also when he was going to college he went to see his friend (a black boy) who was  playing football for another college
and going to Notre Dame to play ball....My Grandson and his girlfriend took a plane to Chicago and to Notre Dame to see his friend play.
They are still friends to this day...
There are bad people and there are nice people....I don't tolerate bad people.....I stay away from them....I guess I was brought up with a Dad
that never was a Bigot....  (We all matter)  One thing I forgot....My Dad was Italian....A Dark Italian....Many thought he was a Black Man...
He always had a tan working out in the roads and any other way to make a living when we were young....He also was a painter....
He was a little guy and when he was young he was a boxer...A light way....And won....As I said some place here My Dad had only one good
eye.....He was always my hero....God rest his soul....


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## Gary O' (Jun 11, 2020)

peppermint said:


> .I guess I was brought up with a Dad
> that never was a Bigot.... (We all matter) One thing I forgot....My Dad was Italian....A Dark Italian....Many thought he was a Black Man...
> He always had a tan working out in the roads and any other way to make a living when we were young....He also was a painter....
> *He was a little guy and when he was young he was a boxer...A light way....And won....As I said some place here My Dad had only one good
> eye.....He was always my hero....God rest his soul....*


OT (forgive me, I'm Irish), but interesting;
My Dad was a boxer too
Also a light weight (actually welter weight)
Won some
Ended up with one good eye (detached retina...from boxing)
He too was my hero



We had friends of many backgrounds
Color or lineage was never considered



Em in Ohio said:


> As a former teacher of young children, I know in my heart that they are not born racists - It is taught by parents


You may have something there, Em

My dad taught me well


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 11, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Speaking as an Australian, the answer is YES.
> We are moving towards the light but at glacial speed.
> 
> One of my favourite Australian authors, the late Frank Hardy, said 'scratch an Australian and underneath you will discover a racist'. He was, of course speaking of white Anglo Aussies like me and my family. He wasn't wrong when he said these words. I have taken them to heart and have shifted internally. Still, I sometimes judge people according to their cultural origins. At least I can recognise what I am doing now. When I was young I had no idea.


Personally, I think you have taken a major step through your self-analysis.  I lot of folks wouldn't bother to reevaluate their social biases.


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## doat (Jun 11, 2020)

Is there yes, question is by who.


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## Lakeland living (Jun 11, 2020)

Yes, there is racism in Canada. 
    Have worked with  many different peoples in my life...not all are anal or racist. BUT each race has them.


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## Lewkat (Jun 11, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> But aren't English and Scots the same race?   How could that be "racism?"


I think they are a nationality which is different from race.


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## Lakeland living (Jun 11, 2020)

Em in Ohio said:


> I believe segregation builds solidarity and, sadly sometimes, the "us versus them" mentality. When I bought my first house, I purposely sought a diverse community.  It was enriching and we all shared our histories, our cultures, our trials and tribulations, and our recipes.
> 
> I wasn't raised by racists and wasn't taught to be a racist.  That's one thing from my childhood that I actually appreciate.  Growing up, we enjoyed the company of many different races and cultures in our home.
> 
> As a former teacher of young children, I know in my heart that they are not born racists - It is taught by parents.  They instill children with fear of differences and the notion that some are superior to others.


  You hit the nail right on the head EM, no one is born racist.  They are created by others.


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## Lewkat (Jun 11, 2020)

Bonnie said:


> "So what exactly do you consider to be 'white culture'???"  ....  good question!
> 
> I have friends of many races  and I  like it that way!   .... I've been told by a black friend that I'm not white anyway,  since I'm Italian,  Greek and Russian.
> I've never stayed up at night worrying about it ..lol


Why are we using the word race for nationality?


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## peppermint (Jun 11, 2020)

Dad on the left and his brother on right (I think he has a gun in his belt)
My little brother on left and my cousin on right....My family have been bringing out pictures, some I never saw....It is going on cause one of
my cousin's had died around 2 weeks ago....


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## JaniceM (Jun 12, 2020)

Lewkat said:


> I think they are a nationality which is different from race.


And it shows exactly how idiotic the entire subject is...  and it's NOT anything new.  
Example:  there was a couple, older than my parents, who got married.  The husband's parents never stopped ragging on his wife that she was nothing, not good enough, etc., because her 'people' (family) had come from a different country than themselves.  
Both members of the couple were white, they even shared the same religion, but her in-laws made national origin a big issue.  
I've seen the same recently, too-  individuals who actually claim they hate other ethnic groups within their own race.


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## Capt Lightning (Jun 12, 2020)

I remember going to Greenock in Scotland to give a short course.  I was introduced as "although he's come up from Havant (S.England), you're OK as he's not English.   ....   Cheers.....  One of the instructors from down south absolutely hated going to Greenock - he just couldn't get on with them.  It wasn't that they didn't like the English, but he just couldn't understand their culture or humour.  I thought they were great people.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 12, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> And it shows exactly how idiotic the entire subject is...  and it's NOT anything new.
> Example:  there was a couple, older than my parents, who got married.  The husband's parents never stopped ragging on his wife that she was nothing, not good enough, etc., because her 'people' (family) had come from a different country than themselves.
> Both members of the couple were white, they even shared the same religion, but her in-laws made national origin a big issue.
> I've seen the same recently, too-  individuals who actually claim they hate other ethnic groups within their own race.


I was told not to tell my grandmother that my fiance wasn't Hungarian, as it would upset her!  He was half Dutch, half Blackfoot Indian!  His coloring was Dutch, so he could 'pass' as Hungarian as long as he kept his mouth shut and the subject didn't come up!  Sheesh!


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 14, 2020)

I don't believe everyone is a racist bastard. But I do believe there is significant  number of us, who have unvoiced racist ideology. I believe whenever there is a perceived "us & them", it's likely to occur.


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## Rosemarie (Jun 14, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> But aren't English and Scots the same race?   How could that be "racism?"


No, the English and the Scots are not the same. Some Scottish people are descended from  Irish people, others are descended from Saxons who moved from Northern England, some are Viking, some are Celts. A real mixture, just as the English are.


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## fuzzybuddy (Jun 14, 2020)

There no such thing as race. Humans are all on one continuum.  Race is kind of what we want to call it. And , as C'est moi noted, it hard to visibly tell an Irishman, and Englishman, and a Scot from one another. Yet, they've been killing each other for millennia. Whatever feature makes "us" and not "them", and makes us superior, or inferior is what we refer to as racism. They may be a further ' isms", such as religion, where we see divisions.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 14, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> There no such thing as race. Humans are all on one continuum.  Race is kind of what we want to call it. And , as C'est moi noted, it hard to visibly tell an Irishman, and Englishman, and a Scot from one another. Yet, they've been killing each other for millennia. Whatever feature makes "us" and not "them", and makes us superior, or inferior is what we refer to as racism.


Standardized definitions from https://debbyirving.com/are-prejudice-bigotry-and-racism-the-same-thing/:

*Prejudice* is when a person negatively pre-judges another person or group without getting to know the beliefs, thoughts, and feelings behind their words and actions. A person of any racial group can be prejudiced towards a person of any other racial group. There is no power dynamic involved. 

*Bigotry* is stronger than prejudice, a more severe mindset and often accompanied by discriminatory behavior. It’s arrogant and mean-spirited, but requires neither systems nor power to engage in.

*Racism* is the system that allows the racial group that’s already in power to retain power. Since arriving on U.S. soil white people have used their power to create preferential access to survival rights and resources (housing, education, jobs, voting, citizenship, food, health, legal protection, etc.) for white people while simultaneously impeding people of color’s access to these same rights and resources.Though “reverse racism” is a term I sometimes hear, it has never existed in America. White people are the only racial group to have ever established and retained power in the United States.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 25, 2020)

Is this country racist?!! I hope this is a rhetorical question Fuzzbuddy!!
My grand uncle told the story of coming home from fighting in a war to protect this country and being refused service at a lunch counter. All he wanted was to get a cup of coffee.

I didn’t experience racism personally until I became an adult. I grew up in a neighborhood with Black and White families and one Hispanic family. We all played and had a good time together.  We visited each other's homes. There were a few people of color in high school, maybe 10%-15% in our graduating class of 703. We were friendly together and never once did I hear anyone call another by a derogatory name.

When I got older a sales rep in a high end furniture store approached me as if I couldn’t have afforded to shop there. In the store where I ultimately brought my bedroom set, I was first showed the cheap furniture selection. That store was known to do that to Black customers. I told the salesman to show me the furniture on the second floor. I purchased a top of the line set which I still have today, 50 years later.

I was taking organ lessons at a local music store  The brothers that owned the store took a liking to me. One called me Cleopatra, the other called me Cinderella. Why I don’t know.  When I picked out the organ I wanted, one of the brothers told me apologetically that he wasn’t sure if I could get the loan because merchants were told to write a code (certain letters) on the forms of Black applicants.  Apparently Black applicants were targeted as a basis for rejections. I got my organ and eventually they hired me to teach there part time.

My son experienced racism at the high school of his choice which was a tech school in a county known to be racist. I had to transfer him out. When he was in his 20s he had gone to his group’s manager Jim’s studio to record some tracks. My son who didn’t drive at the time had put some of his own equipment in the back seat. When Jim, who was White and lived in a county known for being bourgeoisie and racist, was driving him home, they were stopped by a policeman still in that county but not too far from home. He gave no reason for pulling the car over and just asked scornfully “What’s *he* doing in the car?” Jim told him that they had just left the recording studio and he was taking my son home.  I was *livid !* I told my son he should have gotten the name of the officer. In retrospect, calling his station to complain probably wouldn’t have done any good.

I had a cousin who was a minister. His wife looked White but she was Black. In fact one day when I got on a bus, saw her sitting there and said Hi Cousin Gertie...peoples' eyes popped and mouths dropped open.  They were driving down south to visit family and were stopped and treated badly by an officer who assumed they were an interracial couple.


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## Judycat (Jun 25, 2020)

Someone said animals aren't racist. Well my tabby cat puts down my gray and white cat because she's regular cat color while gray and white is not. Treats her more like a rabbit.


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## Pepper (Jun 25, 2020)

@OneEyedDiva 
I only checked   in your above post to mean I strongly support your words, not that I approve what happened.  But, you know that already.


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## Ferocious (Jun 25, 2020)

I believe that every country on the planet has what is now called 'racism'.
For thousands of years 'tribes' have fought each other for land, they didn't like each other very much and the colour of their skin was not the issue, it was that one tribe was trying to steal the other tribes women or property, they enslaved each other. And no amount of laws will force people to 'like' each other whatever their colour or religion. The best we can hope for is that everyone will tolerate each other and just  'rub along', if not the world will again see massive world wars.


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 25, 2020)

Ferocious said:


> I believe that every country on the planet has what is now call 'racism'.
> For thousands of years 'tribes' have fought each other for land, they didn't like each other very much and the colour of their skin was not the issue, it was that one tribe was trying to steal the other tribes women or property, they enslaved each other. *And no amount of laws will force people to 'like' each other whatever their colour or religion. The best we can hope for is that everyone will tolerate each other and just  'rub along'*, if not the world will again see massive world wars.



I agree we can't legislate people's feelings and beliefs but we can hold people accountable for their behavior.


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## Rosemarie (Jun 25, 2020)

Warrigal said:


> Race isn't really a thing. Genetically humans are all one species with what used to be localised variations. In the past people talked about lesser races and this could mean that the Celts were inferior to the Anglo Normans, or the Jews of Europe to the so called Aryan race. It isn't about race; it is about differences and very slight ones at that.
> 
> Today we wouldn't think of the former example (Celts v Anglos) as racism but we would probably consider the second example (relating to religion), like Apartheid, to be racist.  Today most racism is skin colour or eye shape. When these attitudes are the foundations for discrimination they need to be recognised as a major problem.
> 
> It doesn't help to be debating what racism is. We need to attack the disadvantage that is its fellow traveller. We must learn from last century and do better in this one.


It's too easy to dismiss racism as having no basis, but humans are animals. We think of ourselves as civilised but we still have animal instincts. Animals are territorial, and naturally suspicious of other species. In other words...it's perfectly natural to be racist!


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## OneEyedDiva (Jun 25, 2020)

Pepper said:


> @OneEyedDiva
> I only checked   in your above post to mean I strongly support your words, not that I approve what happened.  But, you know that already.


Yes I do Pepper.  Thank you!


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## Camper6 (Jun 25, 2020)

I live in Canada.  Definitely racist towards the indigenous natives.
The biggest mistake ever was creating reserves and isolating people.


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## Pepper (Jun 25, 2020)

Rosemarie said:


> It's too easy to dismiss racism as having no basis, but humans are animals. We think of ourselves as civilised but we still have animal instincts. Animals are territorial, and naturally suspicious of other species. In other words...it's perfectly natural to be racist!


"We're not going to Kill Today"


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## 911 (Jun 25, 2020)

*I do not believe* the U.S. to be a racist country, although we do have racists living within our borders. To me, it's all in what you want to believe. If you choose to believe that the U.S. is a racist country, then for you it is, but for those that don't believe that it is, then it isn't. There is no 'yes' or 'no' that makes it official.


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## Camper6 (Jun 25, 2020)

911 said:


> *I do not believe* the U.S. to be a racist country, although we do have racists living within our borders. To me, it's all in what you want to believe. If you choose to believe that the U.S. is a racist country, then for you it is, but for those that don't believe that it is, then it isn't. There is no 'yes' or 'no' that makes it official.


What is happening lately in the U.S. with riots and tearing down statues and even changing logos on pancake syrup shows that racism is far from dying even receding. It's not long ago that public schools were integrated by force.


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## JaniceM (Jun 25, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> What is happening lately in the U.S. with riots and tearing down statues and even changing logos on pancake syrup shows that racism is from dying even receding. *It's not long ago that public schools were integrated by force.*



Except those that were never segregated in the first place.


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## 911 (Jun 25, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> What is happening lately in the U.S. with riots and tearing down statues and even changing logos on pancake syrup shows that racism is from dying even receding. It's not long ago that public schools were integrated by force.


I don't understand your post. Can you help me out here?


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## JaniceM (Jun 25, 2020)

911 said:


> *I do not believe* the U.S. to be a racist country, although we do have racists living within our borders. To me, it's all in what you want to believe. If you choose to believe that the U.S. is a racist country, then for you it is, but for those that don't believe that it is, then it isn't. There is no 'yes' or 'no' that makes it official.


I'd venture to say if you, or worse, your young child, was on the receiving-end of 'the N. word' and various other examples, that you wouldn't consider it a matter of 'choosing to believe.'


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## Sunny (Jun 25, 2020)

The question "Do you live in a racist nation?" is so unclear that it's meaningless.

If it means the official laws of our nation, our Constitution, etc. are racist, no, they are not.  The U.S. Confederacy was racist. The old laws of South Africa were racist. (And maybe still are, for all I know.)  But the U.S. is not officially racist, just the opposite.

If it is asking whether racism largely still exists, of course it does. 

Please clarify the question.


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## 911 (Jun 25, 2020)

JaniceM said:


> I'd venture to say if you, or worse, your young child, was on the receiving-end of 'the N. word' and various other examples, that you wouldn't consider it a matter of 'choosing to believe.'


Well, yeah, I did write that we do have racists in this country, but that fact alone does not make us a racist nation. If our government somehow violated the rights of a class of our society, then that would make us a racist nation. Just because someone calls me a n----r, does not make the nation a racist nation, however, if the government would pass a law stating that everyone would be receiving a stimulus check, except those of the Jewish religion, then that would indeed make this a racist nation.  

I had an incident some years ago with a white man and a black man walking down the street in a small town that was probably 100% white. The white man yelled to the black man, who was across the street, "Hey n----r, get out of our town.  The small borough did not have a police department, so the call went to the state police, which was me. After I took the man's complaint, I thought that perhaps, I had a hate crime or at the very least, a case of making a Terroristic Threat. 

When I got back to the barracks and wrote up the complaint and handed it to my Sergeant, he read it over and told me that I had misapplied the law. I argued my case by stating that the black man was frightened that harm would come to him if he didn't leave the borough immediately, so he did. He was actually there to take pictures of a house that was going to be listed to sell. The Sgt. agreed and told me to send it onto the D.A.'s office. 

A few days later, I received a call from the County D.A. telling me that I had misapplied the law, but again, I was able to make a case for the black man. I told him (the D.A.) that I was convinced that the black man was scared for his safety. His voice was quivering when he spoke to me and he was very nervous and sweating. The D.A., after interviewing the complainant agreed to take it to court. The judge, after listening to both sides, (this was a non jury trial), decided to toss the case. He cited some other precedents in the law books and ended by saying that had the man actually made a threat of violence, it would have been a different case. IOW, had the white man said, "Hey n----r, get out of our town or I'm going to blow you away. Then, I would have had a case. Actually, I would have had a Civil Rights Case. So, I was educated on that day, as we in the state police say.  

So, I could not tell you with 100% accuracy that the whole little borough is racist because of one man's comment, but they do have at least one racist living among them. Does that make sense to you? I don't like to stigmatize a town because of just one person's stupidity. Same here in the U.S. Just because we have maybe a few million racists, we cannot call this a racist nation because the government does treat each person the same, although sometimes we disagree with that, or there are consequences. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was supposed to make black, white, yellow and red all equal under the law. Since that time, there have been a few more amendments added to it to make it stronger. 

I remember a time in our history when a white man didn't have to sell his house to a black man. Under the Fair Housing Amendment of 1988 that's no longer a choice. Looking back, it's hard to believe that people were actually making those kinds of choices.


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## peppermint (Jun 25, 2020)

If you saw the picture of my Dad and his brother here....They never in my life was racist....Uncle Art was in the war....I never anytime did I here
him be racist....My Dad was in the National Guard and brought home anyone, what ever the person was Black, Jewish, Italian or any other race...
When Rochester came to our home for dinner, I never thought he was different,,,,He was Rochester!!!  That's how I was brought up....
My Dad brought home his National Guard friends that were born in another country....Sometimes I didn't know what they were saying....
But they were decent people....I have a couple of cousins that are white and married Black woman....Went to one of there weddings....

So, many people thought my Dad was Black....He was Italian...As far as I know....My Mom was white...Some of my family that are Italian...
are very dark....Who knows what generation they were from.....WHO CARES...…   I loved everyone of them...They are all in Heaven....

So I took a "stupid ancestry"  It seems I have so many different countries, I'm supposed to have in my ancestry....It was funny to me...
The one that was real funny was "Russian"....I don't know where that came from.....


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## Treacle (Jun 25, 2020)

My grandfather didn't like me dating an Italian as he was in Italy during the second world war. When overhead bombing went down he hid in a shed filled with oranges and as kids we would torment him by peeling an orange in front of him. We were very very young. He met an Italian woman  called Anna who he wanted to bring home and find work for her . She was referred to as Anna the piana because we were told that she would run her fingers up and down his back (seriously - that's what we were told)   He was a kind man and not rascist and on reflection he may simply have disliked me dating at 16 years of age rather than the boy being Italian. Perhaps because I knew about grandfather being in Italy and some of the things that went on there,  it was me that had  jumped to that conclusion. Food for thought


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## chic (Jun 25, 2020)

No. Nazi Germany was a racist nation. I don't believe the U.S. is on that level.


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## applecruncher (Jun 25, 2020)

People who have been victims of racism (job discrimination, housing discrimination, ethnic slurs, shunned/excluded based on skin color) don't need to _"choose"_ to believe that something is racist.

Some people can find all kinds of reasons to "justify" their racist behavior including but not limited to rioting, looting, and the OJ acquittal. and how tired they are of all the "PC crap".
Ho hum, everyone has a story, and a list of excuses.


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## 911 (Jun 25, 2020)

peppermint said:


> If you saw the picture of my Dad and his brother here....They never in my life was racist....Uncle Art was in the war....I never anytime did I here
> him be racist....My Dad was in the National Guard and brought home anyone, what ever the person was Black, Jewish, Italian or any other race...
> When Rochester came to our home for dinner, I never thought he was different,,,,He was Rochester!!!  That's how I was brought up....
> My Dad brought home his National Guard friends that were born in another country....Sometimes I didn't know what they were saying....
> ...


But, this is not what decides if a person is a racist or not. I have attended community meetings where racism has been discussed. A man and lady were in attendance at one of the meetings They suggested that police should go back to walking the beat and get to know the people on their beat. This would not apply to the state police because we do not have beats to watch over. Many city police were in attendance. Most favored doing that, but then the question arose about response times to emergencies. To my way of thinking, I thought why not have a task force that answered to all emergencies, but allow the cops to walk their beat. I can remember being a little boy and having a cop walk by our house twice a day.

Later, as time passed on, it was necessary to put cops in cars for response time. During the midnight shift, big city cops had two cops in a car. Like in NYC and LA. The state police mainly watched over the highways, but boroughs were running out of money to support their own police department, so they handed their crimes over to us, the state police.

Getting back to being a racist. (I sometimes get side-tracked because to me, these are serious and important issues, so I have a 1000 thoughts running around in my head.) Anyway, if you have ever had a negative thought about a person of color, you could be considered a racist. This is where the terminology came from “That you don’t have to be white to be a racist.” If you have said the ‘n’ word in a negative manner or if you have told a racist joke, even something so simple as, “There was a white guy, a black guy and an Indian sitting in a bar. And so on.) This could be considered racist.

Trying to live our lives to be PC 100% of the time will drive us nuts. Sometimes, we just have a slip of the tongue, not meaning anything racial, but it can be taken that way. Another Trooper and I were discussing our kids in school and I asked him how was his boy doing in track. (This kid could run like the wind and actually got a fully paid scholarship to Maryland.) Little did I know, he took offense to me calling his son a boy. I never meant nothing more than what it was supposed to mean. I apologized to him and he was OK with it, but I could tell he was hurt. From then on, I tried to avoid him. I didn’t want to have another miscue and have to apologize for something that I thought was trivial.

But, that comment made me a racist. It’s a stigma that doesn’t go away. It’s like crossing a union picket line and being a scab. My dad would always tell me that once you’re a scab, you’re always a scab. Or, a drug addict or alcoholic. Once you are one of those people, you remain one of those people. This is the way life operates. The proof is in the pudding, or so I have heard. During O.J.’s trial, Mark Fuhrman was asked if he ever said the ‘n’ word. He truthfully replied, “Yes.” He was then labeled a racist and has been ever since. I know Mark through attending FBI investigation courses in Virginia. Mark is a very intelligent and decent human being, but he messed up and now he pays for it. Such a shame to lose a good cop.


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## Camper6 (Jun 25, 2020)

*r*


911 said:


> I don't understand your post. Can you help me out here?


What do you think the riots are all about. It's racism. BLM.
I'm not saying the whole country is racist. I'm saying it exists.


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## Treacle (Jun 25, 2020)

I'm a bit confused. I know the post was 'do you believe you live in a racist nation' but I often find people write or say I'm not racist, I have a friend .... or my neighbours are .....lovely people, or I work with ...... . I worked on a paper for equal opportunities in higher education and sometimes I throw that out as if I'm justifying I'm not racist. This happened in an incident where we were in a pub and a black guy who had been drinking was challenging a number of people and came up to my table and let's just say was not very pleasant and accused me of being racist to which I responded that I had worked with the Equal Opportunities Commission in regards to Education.  Unless anyone can tell me differently I am not racist but I do believe we live in a racist society which takes many forms whether religious, skin colour, ethnicity etc etc. I care for those individuals who are equally caring for others ( ooh guess I might be referred to as a snowflake). I nearly added in, 
that my potential brother in law was a headmaster but still teaches  and comes from Jamaica. Why do we do this? Hope I haven't upset anyone that is not my nature.
Anyway I will just add that if I'm honest I prefer animals, !!!!! ☺


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## applecruncher (Jun 25, 2020)

Sunny said:


> The question "Do you live in a racist nation?" is so unclear that it's meaningless.
> 
> If it means the official laws of our nation, our Constitution, etc. are racist, no, they are not.  The U.S. Confederacy was racist. The old laws of South Africa were racist. (And maybe still are, for all I know.)  But the U.S. is not officially racist, just the opposite.
> 
> ...



Sunny, look again. I think the question asked in the topic title is VERY clear.


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## 911 (Jun 25, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> *r*
> 
> What do you think the riots are all about. It's racism. BLM.
> I'm not saying the whole country is racist. I'm saying it exists.


What do I think the riots are all about? What riots? There are no riots going on right now. What is happening now is that we have several groups of morons tearing down statues. That’s right. I’m not being unkind by saying that these people are morons. I am being serious. They truly are morons.


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## JaniceM (Jun 25, 2020)

911 said:


> What do I think the riots are all about? What riots? There are no riots going on right now. What is happening now is that we have several groups of morons tearing down statues. That’s right. I’m not being unkind by saying that these people are morons. I am being serious. They truly are morons.


You might have a different definition, but in my opinion when a 'protest' is violent, it's a riot...  _especially _when instigators state that's their purpose.


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## applecruncher (Jun 25, 2020)

911 said:


> During O.J.’s trial, Mark Fuhrman was asked if he ever said the ‘n’ word. He truthfully replied, “Yes.” He was then labeled a racist and has been ever since.



911, you are wrong about this. Very wrong.
Mark Fuhrman responded "No" that he had NOT used the N word. Then F. Lee Bailey presented testimony and recordings which proved Fuhrman to be a LIAR.


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## JaniceM (Jun 25, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> 911, you are wrong about this. Very wrong.
> Mark Fuhrman responded "No" that he had NOT used the N word. Then F. Lee Bailey presented testimony and recordings which proved Fuhrman to be a LIAR.


What a skuzzy little creep HE was.  (Fuhrman, I mean)


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## Manatee (Jun 25, 2020)

In my _experience_ racism is a 2-way street.  Read the crime statistics to verify.


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## JaniceM (Jun 25, 2020)

Manatee said:


> In my _experience_ racism is a 2-way street.  Read the crime statistics to verify.


To word it politely:  bunk.


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## Manatee (Jun 25, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> I lived near Detroit for 34 years and what a experience that's all I can say.
> 
> I think Brazil is a mixed country with very little race problems.


Rio is notorious for crime.


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## applecruncher (Jun 25, 2020)

Manatee said:


> In my _experience_ racism is a 2-way street.  Read the crime statistics to verify.


Tell that to survivors of lynching victims.


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## Sunny (Jun 25, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> Sunny, look again. I think the question asked in the topic title is VERY clear.


It isn't clear, Applecruncher, not the way it was worded. Before answering, I would need to know if the OP was asking if the official principles of this nation are racist, or if this is a country where many (obviously not all!) people hold racist views.

I would say no to the first, yes to the second.


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## rgp (Jun 25, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> Tell that to survivors of lynching victims.




 I would but ....... most have been dead 100 years or more ....... I'd say it's time to move on. 

Now ..... lets' talk about the 3 or 4 that were killed locally by other blacks last week.


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## rgp (Jun 25, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> People who have been victims of racism (job discrimination, housing discrimination, ethnic slurs, shunned/excluded based on skin color) don't need to _"choose"_ to believe that something is racist.
> 
> Some people can find all kinds of reasons to "justify" their racist behavior including but not limited to rioting, looting, and the OJ acquittal. and how tired they are of all the "PC crap"
> Ho hum, everyone has a story.





"based on skin color) don't need to _"choose"_ to believe that something is racist."

  Wrong, just plain wrong ........it is based on the behavior [or lack of] of people that just happen to be of a certain color.........

 Change their behavior , not their skin color, and everything, I mean everything will improve ..... overnight.


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## Treacle (Jun 25, 2020)

Gary O' said:


> OT (forgive me, I'm Irish), but interesting;
> My Dad was a boxer too
> Also a light weight (actually welter weight)
> Won some
> ...


OOH Gary O' you look so sweet what happened!!!! (joke) Aah lovely lovely photo with your dad. Sad about dad's eye but guess that is what happens in boxing - wish it didn't


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## Camper6 (Jun 25, 2020)

911 said:


> What do I think the riots are all about? What riots? There are no riots going on right now. What is happening now is that we have several groups of morons tearing down statues. That’s right. I’m not being unkind by saying that these people are morons. I am being serious. They truly are morons.


They are tearing down statues and you don't know why and the riots are over but you don't know why they took place? I'm done here.


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## peppermint (Jun 25, 2020)

911 said:


> What do I think the riots are all about? What riots? There are no riots going on right now. What is happening now is that we have several groups of morons tearing down statues. That’s right. I’m not being unkind by saying that these people are morons. I am being serious. They truly are morons.


I get you...You are absolutely correct....Yes, the morons made the Riots....At first it  was peaceful walking in the streets then it got to be a riot...

The morons came in....I won't say who they were....Then it became an apademic….We've had this in our country for a long time....
Someone, I won't say, is moving this....    They've been in our country for a very long time...It's a Cult!!!   They don't want the USA....
They want the country their way....I'm old, but I have kids that are growing up in this country....They couldn't go to school, they can't
go out anywhere, they can't see their friends..   People lost their jobs....What da heck!!!!…..It's a conspiracy....

Sorry, I'm an old Woman and have lived a very long time.....


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## Pepper (Jun 25, 2020)

rgp said:


> Now ..... lets' talk about the 3 or 4 that were killed locally by other blacks last week.


Haven't you noticed whites kill each other too?
eta--I've noticed people kill other people.  All the time.  Bad habit.  Listen to the words of Captain Kirk.


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## 911 (Jun 25, 2020)

peppermint said:


> I get you...You are absolutely correct....Yes, the morons made the Riots....At first it  was peaceful walking in the streets then it got to be a riot...
> 
> The morons came in....I won't say who they were....Then it became an apademic….We've had this in our country for a long time....
> Someone, I won't say, is moving this....    They've been in our country for a very long time...It's a Cult!!!   They don't want the USA....
> ...


You get it. A few of these anarchists were asked about the statue of the “Emancipation Memorial” and no one (I believe they asked 5 or 6 of the mob) who the President on the statue was and not one of them knew.

To make it even worse, the mob wants to tear down the statue of Teddy Roosevelt in New York. President Roosevelt was probably our greatest President ever, not too mention that he was also our youngest ever elected.


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## Pepper (Jun 25, 2020)

911 said:


> To make it even worse, the mob wants to tear down the statue of Teddy Roosevelt in New York. President Roosevelt was probably our greatest President ever, not too mention that he was also our youngest ever elected.


The Museum of Natural History in NYC is voluntarily removing the statue of Teddy Roosevelt, in which he is on horseback & is flanked by an African native on one side and an American native on the other. It is their idea to take it down, no one asked them to.

Like you, I admire him very much.  Without him we would not have our National Parks.  He was an innovator on many levels.


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## Pepper (Jun 25, 2020)

As for Confederate statues, they represent traitors and losers and are nothing to admire.  Black citizens of the South help pay for their upkeep through their taxes and that is a slap in the face.  Enough.


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## Becky1951 (Jun 25, 2020)

rgp said:


> Wrong, just plain wrong ........it is based on the behavior [or lack of] of people that just happen to be of a certain color.........
> 
> Change their behavior , not their skin color, and everything, I mean everything will improve ..... overnight.



"Wrong, just plain wrong ........it is based on the behavior [or lack of] of people that just happen to be of a certain color.........

Change their behavior , not their skin color, and everything, I mean everything will improve ..... overnight."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     And just what "certain color" are you referring to? Change THEIR behavior?


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## C'est Moi (Jun 25, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> Tell that to survivors of lynching victims.


Yes, and tell it to Reginald Denny.


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## 911 (Jun 25, 2020)

Pepper said:


> As for Confederate statues, they represent traitors and losers and are nothing to admire.  Black citizens of the South help pay for their upkeep through their taxes and that is a slap in the face.  Enough.


I can understand your hostility towards these Confederate statues, but we really should keep in mind that they were also heroes to many others. It’s a Catch-22. The statues that adorn the Gettysburg Battlefield is a solemn place for many who lost relatives during the 3-day battle. I have walked that battlefield more times than I care to count. Hundreds of thousands of men and women have lost their life while fighting for our rights with the flag beside them. I don’t get it. Such a small thing to ask; to stand and show respect for all the lost lives so that our 1st Amendment rights could be protected.


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## Victor (Jun 25, 2020)

NO.


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## Pepper (Jun 25, 2020)

NO, @911.  The Confederates were traitors to our Union and believed they had the right to buy and sell other humans, even to kill them with no penalty.  NO.  

I have also been to Gettysburg several times and yes, the experience is haunting.


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## applecruncher (Jun 25, 2020)

Sunny said:


> It isn't clear, Applecruncher, not the way it was worded.


Applecruncher says the question is clear.
Sunny says it isn't.

So, we disagree. (shrug)


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## JaniceM (Jun 25, 2020)

rgp said:


> I would but ....... most have been dead 100 years or more ....... I'd say it's time to move on.
> 
> Now ..... lets' talk about the 3 or 4 that were killed locally by other blacks last week.



https://web.archive.org/web/20120510065443/http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159348,00.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_of_Michael_Donald

And there were states where it wasn't even against the law til only a few years ago!!!


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## JaniceM (Jun 25, 2020)

911 said:


> You get it. A few of these anarchists were asked about the statue of the “Emancipation Memorial” and no one (I believe they asked 5 or 6 of the mob) who the President on the statue was and not one of them knew.
> 
> To make it even worse, the mob wants to tear down the statue of Teddy Roosevelt in New York. President Roosevelt was probably our greatest President ever, not too mention that he was also our youngest ever elected.


The youngest person to be elected President was JFK.


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## JaniceM (Jun 25, 2020)

911 said:


> I can understand your hostility towards these Confederate statues, but we really should keep in mind that they were also heroes to many others. It’s a Catch-22. The statues that adorn the Gettysburg Battlefield is a solemn place for many who lost relatives during the 3-day battle. I have walked that battlefield more times than I care to count. Hundreds of thousands of men and women have lost their life while fighting for our rights with the flag beside them. I don’t get it. Such a small thing to ask; to stand and show respect for all the lost lives so that our 1st Amendment rights could be protected.


Seriously?!?  You think the Confederates were protecting First Amendment rights-  _whose _First Amendment rights?!?

Oh, oops, I forgot-  back in the day, Blacks, Native Americans, and women weren't 'citizens.'


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## Camper6 (Jun 25, 2020)

Sunny said:


> The question "Do you live in a racist nation?" is so unclear that it's meaningless.
> 
> If it means the official laws of our nation, our Constitution, etc. are racist, no, they are not.  The U.S. Confederacy was racist. The old laws of South Africa were racist. (And maybe still are, for all I know.)  But the U.S. is not officially racist, just the opposite.
> 
> ...


Sunny.  You are aware of course that under the First Amendment and free speech that hate speech is protected.  

*Hate speech* in the *United States* is not regulated, in contrast to that of most other liberal democracies, due to the robust right to free *speech* found in the *American* Constitution. The *U.S.* Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that *hate speech* is legally *protected* free *speech* under the First Amendment.


----------



## rgp (Jun 25, 2020)

Pepper said:


> Haven't you noticed whites kill each other too?
> eta--I've noticed people kill other people.  All the time.  Bad habit.  Listen to the words of Captain Kirk.




 Yes I have, but the "cry" is black lives matter .......So as per your note .... why not , all lives matter ?

 Lately there have been people fired for saying that!

 As for Capt,Kirk?........I do not base my debates/arguments quoting fictional characters.


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## rgp (Jun 25, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> "Wrong, just plain wrong ........it is based on the behavior [or lack of] of people that just happen to be of a certain color.........
> 
> Change their behavior , not their skin color, and everything, I mean everything will improve ..... overnight."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     And just what "certain color" are you referring to? Change THEIR behavior?



 Referring to mostly blacks ......... as I believe the opposing poster was as well.


----------



## Em in Ohio (Jun 25, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> As far as the US is concerned, I would have to say yes. This is my opinion. What is yours? We live in a divided nation-black and white, Asian, Indian, etc. There is a white culture, which stays all white. Can you guess the race of a Country /Western  singer. It's no big secret whites harbor racists views. They interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly not live next to them. Blacks have their own culture, which stays black. Can you guess the race of a R&B/soul singer. They harbor racist views for other races.  They also harbor a great distrust of the police. They interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly do not live next to other races. We have almost two independent societies.  I believe it is difficult in the US for blacks and whites to shed racism. Both have unjustified fears and long, long traumatic histories.



Seeing the world from the perspective of others:

*Martin Luther King: “A Letter from Birmingham Jail.”*
“But when you have seen vicious mobs lynch your mothers and fathers at will and drown your sisters and brothers at whim; when you have seen hate-filled policemen curse, kick and even kill your black brothers and sisters; when you see the vast majority of your twenty million ***** brothers smothering in an airtight cage of poverty in the midst of an affluent society; when you suddenly find your tongue twisted and your speech stammering as you seek to explain to your six-year-old daughter why she can’t go to the public amusement park that has just been advertised on television, and see tears welling up in her eyes when she is told that Funtown is closed to colored children, and see ominous clouds of inferiority beginning to form in her little mental sky, and see her beginning to distort her personality by developing an unconscious bitterness toward white people; when you have to concoct an answer for a five-year-old son who is asking: “Daddy, why do white people treat colored people so mean?”; when you take a cross-country drive and find it necessary to sleep night after night in the uncomfortable corners of your automobile because no motel will accept you; when you are humiliated day in and day out by nagging signs reading “white” and “colored”; when your first name becomes “******,” your middle name becomes “boy” (however old you are) and your last name becomes “John,” and your wife and mother are never given the respected title “Mrs.”; when you are harried by day and haunted by night by the fact that you are a *****, living constantly at tiptoe stance, never quite knowing what to expect next, and are plagued with inner fears and outer resentments; when you go forever fighting a degenerating sense of “nobodiness”–then you will understand why we find it difficult to wait.”


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## Becky1951 (Jun 26, 2020)

rgp said:


> Referring to mostly blacks ......... as I believe the opposing poster was as well.



So in your opinion if black people the whole race, changed their behavior everything and you mean everything would change over night?

What behavior would you like from the black race? 

Back to the days of slavery so you could be called Master?

My opinion of your opinion is that your a racist.


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## Pepper (Jun 26, 2020)

rgp said:


> As for Capt,Kirk?........I do not base my debates/arguments quoting fictional characters.


A Real Person wrote the script.  I don't know who but I think Gene Roddenberry was named Gene for Geneius.


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## Em in Ohio (Jun 26, 2020)

Pepper said:


> A Real Person wrote the script.  I don't know who but I think Gene Roddenberry was named Gene for Geneius.


@rgp @Pepper 

Astronomer Carl Sagan's son contributes many of the scripts used in Star Trek.  RGP might have different attitudes if he watched the social dynamics on the Star Trek series.


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## rgp (Jun 26, 2020)

Becky1951 said:


> So in your opinion if black people the whole race, changed their behavior everything and you mean everything would change over night?
> 
> What behavior would you like from the black race?
> 
> ...




"What behavior would you like from the black race?"

 Well lets start with them not shooting each other, as reported on the news every damn night.

 Maybe get out of the street corner illegal drug business. 


Well, what ever your opinion of me is .... it's a hell of allot higher than my opinion of you.


----------



## Sunny (Jun 26, 2020)

fuzzybuddy said:


> As far as the US is concerned, I would have to say yes. This is my opinion. What is yours? We live in a divided nation-black and white, Asian, Indian, etc. There is a white culture, which stays all white. Can you guess the race of a Country /Western  singer. It's no big secret whites harbor racists views. They interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly not live next to them. Blacks have their own culture, which stays black. Can you guess the race of a R&B/soul singer. They harbor racist views for other races.  They also harbor a great distrust of the police. They interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly do not live next to other races. We have almost two independent societies.  I believe it is difficult in the US for blacks and whites to shed racism. Both have unjustified fears and long, long traumatic histories.



Fuzzy, I beg to differ.  Part of what you have said is true, the part about various kinds of singers being primarily one race or another. (Though even that isn't 100%).  But these are cultural differences. 

Many of us have friends primarily of our own cultural background; again, so what?  That doesn't prove that "we live in a divided nation,"  although that may be true if you leave race out of the equation and just look at our social and political ideas.  But having lots of friends from your own cultural background absolutely does not mean that we  "interact with other races only when necessary, and certainly do not live next to other races."  What ugly, prejudiced corner of the U.S. do you live in, and I might add, in what century?

It sounds as if you live in a world where people of different races dislike and mistrust each other.  That is not the world I live in. In my building, people of all races and colorations live side by side, we get along and participate in all our activities together. (Or, at least we did pre-coronavirus).  That applies to everything I do here. My bridge group, my theatre performance group, my scrabble group, my political club, the local newspaper I write for, you name it, we like each other and get along just fine. In my own experience, I think the Black neighbors are the nicest, friendliest people living here, and I am privileged to have them as neighbors.

So, where did "two independent societies" thing come from?  I'm happy to say it is not true for me, or for most of the people living here. That's an ugly, suspicious way of looking at life, and at least in my world, not true.  I'm sorry it is in yours.


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## Pepper (Jun 26, 2020)

rgp said:


> Well lets start with them not shooting each other, as reported on the news every damn night.


What about starting with white people not shooting each other?  i.e.  Las Vegas as well as personal encounters?


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## 911 (Jun 26, 2020)

Some of you people are simply shameless and unappreciative of the lives given protecting freedom. You will never admit or accept it, so let’s just leave it at that.

What’s going on in the U.S. is just plain unacceptable. This is a “revolution” and the end to it will not be pretty.


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## Pepper (Jun 26, 2020)

911 said:


> Some of you people are simply shameless and unappreciative of the lives given protecting freedom.


I beg you, please tell me you are not including Confederates.  If so, and I hope not, given you say "protecting freedom" then I have another question.

I want to thank you personally for all the years you have been protecting the public and the eloquent way you describe your story.


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## rgp (Jun 26, 2020)

Pepper said:


> What about starting with white people not shooting each other?  i.e.  Las Vegas as well as personal encounters?




  Because you questioned my hope for improved behavior in the black community.........

  And maybe because white people don't riot in the streets damn near every time a white suspect is killed by the police.


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## Pepper (Jun 26, 2020)

rgp said:


> *Because you questioned my hope for improved behavior in the black community.........*
> *No, I did not.  All I said was white folks, all folks, kill each other too.  I'm not responsible for how you interpret.*
> 
> *And maybe because white people don't riot in the streets damn near every time a white suspect is killed by the police.
> This time, for this particular victim, George Floyd, it became an equal opportunity riot, and I saw as many whites, if not more, in the streets.*


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## rgp (Jun 26, 2020)

*"Because you questioned my hope for improved behavior in the black community.........
No, I did not. All I said was white folks, all folks, kill each other too. I'm not responsible for how you interpret."*

_When you divert to the behavior of another community ... you question the discussion on the original topic. _


*"And maybe because white people don't riot in the streets damn near every time a white suspect is killed by the police.
This time, for this particular victim, George Floyd, it became an equal opportunity riot, and I saw as many whites, if not more, in the streets.* "

Here again, diversion away from the original topic. If the blacks had not rioted in the streets in the beginning , we likely would not even be having this discussion.

  Spin it as you will ..... I stand by my posted replies.


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## Pepper (Jun 26, 2020)

OK


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## 911 (Jun 26, 2020)

Pepper said:


> I beg you, please tell me you are not including Confederates.  If so, and I hope not, given you say "protecting freedom" then I have another question.
> 
> I want to thank you personally for all the years you have been protecting the public and the eloquent way you describe your story.


Eleven years ago, I toured a lot of Europe. On one part of the trip, I visited the Normandy beaches. Up on a small hillside is the American Cemetery. Visualizing the men who stormed those beaches was overwhelming. The first men off the boats and onto the shore knew that their odds of surviving the Germans’ onslaught was slim as the Germans laid in their bunkers while shooting those first men was like shooting ducks on a pond. Then, we visited the American Cemetery not far from the shoreline. Looking at all of those white crosses, it again overwhelmed me and tears formed in my eyes. I thanked them all and said a prayer.

Then, later in the trip, we visited Auschwitz. My wife and I stood looking at the buildings. I could smell decomposition. I know the smell. We were told that even then (2009) that small fragments of bones were still being found. Again, my eyes teased.

Now, right now, as I look on TV and watch uneducated radicals start with legal, calm protests, which I agree they were right to do so. But, then ANTIFA comes in and gets the crowds all excited and into egregious mode. Hate and destroy everything. If they couldn’t tear it down, they burned it down. Shoot the cops, throw Molotov cocktails, rocks, whatever. Burn churches and then step it up to tearing down monuments and statues. Our history. Yes, it’s not all good, but it’s our history. If you believe it should be moved to maybe inside a museum, gave a conversation about it.

Finally, now they have mayors and governors in their hip pockets. Setting up their own communes inside cities. Defunding the police and now even getting rid of the police.

I’m telling everyone, if things don’t change and I don’t mean back to the way it was, but if these anarchist’s actions don’t stop, this will not end well.


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## Sassycakes (Jun 26, 2020)

Treacle said:


> My grandfather didn't like me dating an Italian as he was in Italy during the second world war. When overhead bombing went down he hid in a shed filled with oranges and as kids we would torment him by peeling an orange in front of him. We were very very young. He met an Italian woman  called Anna who he wanted to bring home and find work for her . She was referred to as Anna the piana because we were told that she would run her fingers up and down his back (seriously - that's what we were told)   He was a kind man and not rascist and on reflection he may simply have disliked me dating at 16 years of age rather than the boy being Italian. Perhaps because I knew about grandfather being in Italy and some of the things that went on there, it was me that had jumped to that conclusion. Food for thought



*Your post brought back memories from my past. When my grandmother was alive and I was dating my husband ,I am Italian and my husband is Irish, my grandmother would introduce us by saying "this is my granddaughter and her boyfriend he is Irish but he is nice. " When I met my  Husbands Mom she said "God save me from the Italians ,but not you Barbara." Of course that is not as bad as racism is among the whites and blacks.*


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## applecruncher (Jun 26, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> Yes, and tell it to Reginald Denny.


After YOU tell it to Emmett Till. And James Byrd.

btw Reginald Denny wasn't killed.


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## C'est Moi (Jun 26, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> After YOU tell it to Emmett Till. And James Byrd.
> 
> btw Reginald Denny wasn't killed.


And it was by the grace of God that Denny survived, but you don't care about that.  Racism IS a 2-way street.


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## Camper6 (Jun 27, 2020)

There are changes coming. To the way police, police.


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## applecruncher (Jun 27, 2020)

C'est Moi said:


> And it was by the grace of God that Denny survived, but you don't care about that.  Racism IS a 2-way street.


You obviously have no idea what I care about. I think what happen to Denny was awful. But he survived. The point which you missed is there is a difference between beating someone vs dragging someone behind a truck for several miles until they are decapitated.


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## C'est Moi (Jun 27, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> You obviously have no idea what I care about. I think what happen to Denny was awful. But he survived. The point which you missed is there is a difference between beating someone vs dragging someone behind a truck for several miles until they are decapitated.


The my comments were directed at the post about was whether race is a 2-way street.  It is.   And FYI, I don't really give a flip about what you care about.  Have a nice day.


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## Pepper (Jun 28, 2020)

@911 
The first 2 paragraphs in your post to me are so beautifully written that I feel I was with you on that Normandy Beach and the notorious Auschwitz.  I thank you for writing them, they are an experience worthy of retelling.

Being from NYC I will usually support our fine police men and women.  Not only are they heroes of September 11, but continued to be in exposing and neutralizing terrorist threats.  The older I get, the more I love them.

No, anarchy won't work in our society.  Anarchy, though romanticized, is something for fiction, 'The Republic' of Plato, the 'Utopia' of Thomas More.  Not for us, we're a bunch of greedy animals and we'd tear each other apart.

We differ in some ways (so what?) but what I gain from your postings is knowledge, experience, thoughtfulness and caring for society.  Thank you for sharing, I really look forward to your opinions, based on true insights.


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