# Frugal Living - how are you managing?



## palides2021 (Aug 27, 2022)

Lately, with inflation going up, I have been looking into being more frugal with my money. I'd like to get tips from you on how you have been able to save money through your frugal living. 

One of the bills that always goes up in the winter for me are the electric bills (even though I have solar panels, in the winter they don't work as much due to the snow). I have these thick curtains that keep the house cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter. I am also thinking of putting those plastic sheets on the windows (window kits) that I get from Home Depot. I also read somewhere that an electric stove uses more electricity than a microwave oven. Any other tips?


----------



## Gaer (Aug 27, 2022)

Well, don't eat much anymore.  I used to crave a big ribeye or a filet at least once a week, but now it's chicken.
This inflation will last a long time, won't it?  Ah, to rectify the ills of man.


----------



## ronaldj (Aug 27, 2022)

we have always lived frugal, always within our means. spend a little, give a little and save a little. maybe because I was a carpenter we have never had piles of cash. always enough and a little more, contentment with thanksgiving is great gain.
we have also always worked together, wife was a stay at home mother of five. she canned, froze stuff, gardened feed the masses with good things.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 27, 2022)

Our utility bills have risen 54 % in April.. and will rise again in October.. it's a terrible situation where the majority of people will be in real danger of heat or eat.. never before in the history of this country have utility bills risen so high... so everyone is looking for the best way to save money , especially now winter is coming.

I have gas central heating ( Boiler) .. which also heats the water, but I can do with the boiler just coming on for an hour in the morning.. to give me enough hot water for showering, and cleaning..rather than having it coming on twice a day .. and also I can keep the heating off , by staying upstairs where it's the warmest place in the house.. and if downstairs, have a fleece blanket on me , or  if it's very cold then a Single duvet.. while I;m sitting on the sofa watching TV..

I have 2 chandeliers in my livingroom.. and 4 table lamps.. .  I rarely have the chandeliers lit.. and usually always rely on the 4 remote control lamps.. but now, I've started just having one lamp on in the evening..

I use a cordless Vac most days.. it takes  a short time to charge,  and can be used everywhere in the house.. I only use the Miele.. about once a fortnight for a thorough clean..

I've bought a flask so I can keep the boiling water in there for tea throughout the day.. it keep the water hot for 8 hours.., so I only need to boil the kettle a 1/3rd of the time , ..


----------



## Aunt Bea (Aug 27, 2022)

I would be leery of spending money to save money.

Take a look at the window insulation kits and compare the cost to the potential savings.

It may be cheaper to turn down the thermostat and put on a sweater.

My biggest money saving tips involve things that I don’t choose to do.

I don’t pay for cable television.

I don’t spend money on coffee or other refreshments when I’m out running errands.

I try not to purchase many cleaning products or disposable items.

Saving money will be different for each of us.  Do the things that have value and purpose in your life and eliminate the things that don’t.

Good luck!


----------



## Pepper (Aug 27, 2022)

I have this terrible habit of shopping at CVS, which I hate, and forgetting the $5 coupons they sometimes sneak onto my receipt.  I do it over and over and then am forced to condemn myself and make excuses for my behavior.  Leaving coupons home shouldn't be an option for me anymore.  I can't stand the regret!


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 27, 2022)

Another thing I got a few months ago was nightlights.. which plug into the sockets at the top and bottom of my stairs..  they come on when they detect movement.. and stay on for about 30 seconds, enough time to get up and downstairs ....  also saves having to put the main lights on when I get up in the night..


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 27, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I have this terrible habit of shopping at CVS, which I hate, and forgetting the $5 coupons they sometimes sneak onto my receipt.  I do it over and over and then am forced to condemn myself and make excuses for my behavior.  Leaving coupons home shouldn't be an option for me anymore.  I can't stand the regret!


Same here! One time, I decided to buy something extra just to use the coupon! But it's so hard to do!


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 27, 2022)

Just got an electric bill, over $400...  Lots of AC I guess.


----------



## win231 (Aug 27, 2022)

I send my girlfriend into the bar alone & wait for other guys to buy her drinks before I go in.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Just got an electric bill, over $400...  Lots of AC I guess.


That's what I'm trying to avoid. Last year, my bills were that high for winter.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 27, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Our utility bills have risen 54 % in April.. and will rise again in October.. it's a terrible situation where the majority of people will be in real danger of heat or eat.. never before in the history of this country have utility bills risen so high... so everyone is looking for the best way to save money , especially now winter is coming.
> 
> I have gas central heating ( Boiler) .. which also heats the water, but I can do with the boiler just coming on for an hour in the morning.. to give me enough hot water for showering, and cleaning..rather than having it coming on twice a day .. and also I can keep the heating off , by staying upstairs where it's the warmest place in the house.. and if downstairs, have a fleece blanket on me , or  if it's very cold then a Single duvet.. while I;m sitting on the sofa watching TV..
> 
> ...


Thanks for the ideas! I had gotten my son such a flask for Christmas and he is very happy with the way it keeps the temperature for so long. I think I might get one for me, too.


----------



## Blessed (Aug 27, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I have this terrible habit of shopping at CVS, which I hate, and forgetting the $5 coupons they sometimes sneak onto my receipt.  I do it over and over and then am forced to condemn myself and make excuses for my behavior.  Leaving coupons home shouldn't be an option for me anymore.  I can't stand the regret!


I put all my coupons straight away into my wallet in a special place, they are always with me.  With the CVS ones, I put them in the center of the wallet.  I see them everytime I open my wallet.  It reminds to keep up with the expiration dates.  They all get used, nothing like free money LOL


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 27, 2022)

Buy in bulk where possible.. it's almost always cheaper... Batch cook..and freeze food..in single or double portions.. ..

Buy frozen veggies rather than fresh. Frozen are better for you, because they retain more vitamins.. and  of course there's no waste, and you have them on hand whenever you need them


----------



## Blessed (Aug 27, 2022)

I am excited for fall and winter, I like it cold so I don't use the heater that much. I just take bath towels, roll them up and put in the window sill to block any drafts and keep heat from going out the window. I do laundry in cold water. When I shower, get in, get wet.  Turn off the water, lather up, shave my legs.  Turn water back on wash and condition hair while I am rinsing off.  

If I am not in the room, everything is turned off. I don't use the lights unless I am cooking or reading.  I have chronic migraines so I like the darkness.  I don't open the draps summer or winter unless company comes. 

I am all about it @hollydolly.  I do the same, I buy in bulk at the lowest price, freeze. If you don't know what you can freeze, google it. I buy block cheese and shredded for freezing.  I also keep a good stock of canned goods, I buy a lot during the holidays for the next year, this would include broths, canned fruits, cereals, breakfast meats, chocolate in all forms.  If you don't cook, learn and if you are physically able, it is the best thing you can do. 

I keep a large pantry of dry goods, pasta, flour corn meal, sugar, brown and powered sugars, yeast, rice, beans.  I have a stand mixer that I use, for breads, cookies and cakes.  

Make sure you keep a good variety of spices on hand, don't over invest, 
 some of them can be pricey.


----------



## Lawrence00 (Aug 27, 2022)

No restaurant visits for 2 years. Am avoiding carbs right now, but quinoa added to just an off the shelf plain label soup is a cheap dinner. Also, rice and beans are a complete protein.


----------



## HoneyNut (Aug 27, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> I am also thinking of putting those plastic sheets on the windows (window kits) that I get from Home Depot.


I put those on my living room windows one winter in my house and literally saved 50% of my electric bill every single month.  But I think it was because there was some sneaky air leak at one of the windows -- probably properly caulking around all the windows would have been better, but I'm not at all handy.


----------



## Remy (Aug 27, 2022)

I had a electric/gas bill of $127, the highest I've ever had in this apartment. Usually I'd be around $80 in the summer. Local news said PG&E (you know that fine corporation that burned down the town of Paradise, Ca) has raised rates 19%. I call BS. I have my AC on 83 and sometimes 82 at night. I used to keep it 81-82. It's gone up more than 19%. Getting sued much?

I guess I'm doing OK. I'm trying not to spend too much. I went over for the 2nd time to go through boxes and boxes at my stepfather's place. I've taken two carloads to PAWS thrift store. There will be more We haven't even started on the bedroom closet and it's stuffed. It's not walk in but is 4 doors wide. I've been doing so good with walking and watching what I eat but I needed to de-compress and that meant stopping at the grocery store and buying what I shouldn't. And spending money on it of coarse.


----------



## Remy (Aug 27, 2022)

Oh, I went to the Grocery Outlet store. They had Amy's brand soup, lentil only. The regular was $2.49 and the light in sodium was $1.99. I got the latter. I can add a little salt. 

And a can of cream corn. I want to make that potato, creamed corn soup again.


----------



## Remy (Aug 27, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> I also read somewhere that an electric stove uses more electricity than a microwave oven. Any other tips?


I don't use the oven in the summer. In the winter, it at least heats the apartment. But I don't know when it will be cool enough to use it.


----------



## PamfromTx (Aug 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Just got an electric bill, over $400...  Lots of AC I guess.


And my husband is complaining about our electric bill.  Highest since our move to the valley.  We weren't use to paying this amount.  It was $183.  Central air has run constantly.


----------



## officerripley (Aug 27, 2022)

Don't be married to a spendthrift who grew up dirt-poor and now that they've got money, want to make up for lost time.


----------



## Blessed (Aug 27, 2022)

I guess I hit it just right, I am contracted and locked in to a kilowhat charge for the last year.  I have another year of that locked in price.  I know it has saved me a lot over the years. Research, research, read the fine print before you commit to any electric company!


----------



## Blessed (Aug 27, 2022)

officerripley said:


> Don't be married to a spendthrift who grew up dirt-poor and now that they've got money, want to make up for lost time.


We both grew up poor, as they say, I did not think so but many people would.   The husband was the spender, I was the saver.  Between the two of us, we got the job done.  He was more drawn to impressing others where I did not care what anyone thought. If he wanted to go somewhere, do something that I though was irresponsible, I sent him on his way.  My portion of that would stay in the savings account.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Just got an electric bill, over $400...  Lots of AC I guess.


how long was that for ?.. this is what  we're paying per month now..


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 27, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> how long was that for ?


A month, I suspect your power costs more than ours, per kwh.


----------



## Blessed (Aug 27, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> how long was that for ?.. this is what  we're paying per month now..



I think he has a really large house, so considering that I an not suprised, I think it reasonable for what he has to cool.  I think it is about 4000 sq ft. Mine was 200 this month but it has been really and I mean really hot here. My house is 2200 sq ft.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 27, 2022)

Remy said:


> Oh, I went to the Grocery Outlet store. They had Amy's brand soup, lentil only. The regular was $2.49 and the light in sodium was $1.99. I got the latter. I can add a little salt.
> 
> And a can of cream corn. I want to make that potato, creamed corn soup again.


I make my own lentil soup.. it's so cheap to make, and I make a BIG pot and freeze it..

I boil a Bacon or gammon joint.. then take it out when it's cooked.. and add lentils, and anything else  I have to hand to the water .. like a chopped up potato or 2.. maybe some barley.. or some butter beans... Then I chop some of the cooked bacon into bite size pieces and throw it back in the pot, and cook it for as long as the lentils need cooking.. about 30minutes.. 

I freeze the soup in portions.. and when I reheat the soup for a dinner , then I'll add some type of green veggies.. like spinach or broccoli...

with the rest of the Bolied bacon..I make other things..like Bacon and egg pie or Bacon and onion Roly Poly suet roll


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> A month, I suspect your power costs more than ours, per kwh.


..and remember we don't have AC...this is for  just normal household usage..  I even have a gas cooker so I don't even cook with electricity.. and my heating is gas also..


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 27, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> ..and remember we don't have AC...this is for just normal household usage.. I even have a gas cooker so I don't even cook with electricity.. and my heating is gas also..


Wow!  We also have gas heat, our electric bill goes down in winter.  And gas is a lot cheaper, here.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Wow!  We also have gas heat, our electric bill goes down in winter.  And gas is a lot cheaper, here.


well ours was until this year and the Russian /Ukraine war... now it's gone through the roof.. up 54 % in April, and will rise again in October.. making the projected  average anual Bill  around £3,500- £4,000 ..people are sick with worry about how they will pay their bills.. and it's sparked off lots of strikes among the workforces demanding more money. Currently the Postmen are on strike.. last week it was the railway workers and train drivers.. both of whom get handsome salaries as it is.... In Scotland it's the Dustmen.. who haven't emptied a trash bin in 9 days..

Trouble is those of us on a fixed income..pensioners et al..get no  rises and if we do it's pennies .. we can't strike for more money and the Uk Govt already pays the lowest pensions in Western Europe.. despite us paying the highest monthly Insurance and tax  all our working lives..

I should stop now.. otherwise it'll all keep me awake..


----------



## Kika (Aug 27, 2022)

Pepper said:


> I have this terrible habit of shopping at CVS, which I hate, and forgetting the $5 coupons they sometimes sneak onto my receipt. I do it over and over and then am forced to condemn myself and make excuses for my behavior. Leaving coupons home shouldn't be an option for me anymore. I can't stand the regret!


I do that too.  I firmly believe CVS counts on that.  They are giving a perk knowing less than 20% of those who receive it, will use it.


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 27, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> well ours was until this year and the Russian /Ukraine war... now it's gone through the roof.. up 54 % in April, and will rise again in October.. making the projected average anual Bill around £3,500- £4,000


Wow, I guess the gas markets are less international than oil.  Harder to transport it, but there are LNG tankers...  I suspect our gas prices will probably rise too, don't know.  Both the US and Utah are net gas exporters. 

Are y'all working on getting gas from somewhere else?  I suspect Russia and the Ukraine won't be coming back soon.  Seems like there should be gas in the North Sea.  And surely in North Africa and the Middle East, do you have pipelines connecting?

We have been able to significantly increase our gas output using fracking technologies, is that being done in Europe?  https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural...ing/why-is-fracking-for-natural-gas-important

Edited a few minutes later.  I looked into it and there are things going on with Middle Eastern and North African gas, but I suspect it will take a while.  Best to have multiple sources I guess.  https://www.arabnews.com/node/2130916


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 27, 2022)




----------



## Marie5656 (Aug 27, 2022)

*I live in a rent subsidized senior apartment bldg.  I have SNAP for food, HEAP for heat and electric.  I do not buy a lot of clothing....hey, retired, where do I have to go?  Just watch my spending*


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 27, 2022)

@hollydolly It appears Europe's gas problems are in part self-inflicted.  This article says Europe has more recoverable gas than the US, but most countries have banned fracking.  If that were not true y'all would not be having these problems... https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake...e, the Netherlands,,output from the North Sea.

I worked much of my career in the environmental business, in oil fields.  And I believe the anti-fracking stuff is mostly nonsense.  Fracking can be done safely, it should not be banned.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 27, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> @hollydolly It appears Europe's gas problems are in part self-inflicted.  This article says Europe has more recoverable gas than the US, but most countries have banned fracking.  If that were not true y'all would not be having these problems... https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/fracking-europe#:~:text=Germany, France, the Netherlands,,output from the North Sea.
> 
> I worked much of my career in the environmental business, in oil fields.  And I believe the anti-fracking stuff is mostly nonsense.  Fracking can be done safely, it should not be banned.


yes..many of us know this..but knowig it isn't going to help us find the money for the bills, when the govt will not entertain the idea of fracking..


----------



## RobinWren (Aug 27, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Our utility bills have risen 54 % in April.. and will rise again in October.. it's a terrible situation where the majority of people will be in real danger of heat or eat.. never before in the history of this country have utility bills risen so high... so everyone is looking for the best way to save money , especially now winter is coming.
> 
> I have gas central heating ( Boiler) .. which also heats the water, but I can do with the boiler just coming on for an hour in the morning.. to give me enough hot water for showering, and cleaning..rather than having it coming on twice a day .. and also I can keep the heating off , by staying upstairs where it's the warmest place in the house.. and if downstairs, have a fleece blanket on me , or  if it's very cold then a Single duvet.. while I;m sitting on the sofa watching TV..
> 
> ...


I think I read somewhere that you have a home in a warmer climate, would you not like to spend the winter there rather than having to pay the exorbitant prices expected in the UK.. I was shocked to see that on the news.


----------



## RobinWren (Aug 27, 2022)

I have always been pretty frugal, old habits die hard. In the winter I heat with a gas fire, and I am mental where hydro is concerned. I never leave lights on, at night I read with a book light, night lights everywhere. Instead of using the oven for cooking I use a convection toaster oven. Only use the oven if I bake, it seems to take a long time to heat up to the required temperature. My gas and electric bills are equal billing rather than pay as you go, it makes it easier to budget then the companies adjust them in the fall. I am expecting a huge increase.


----------



## Paladin1950 (Aug 27, 2022)

I am a notorious cheapskate. Well, perhaps I exaggerate a little. But I do not spend money on things that I do not need. Then again, I must have about 122 tee shirts!


----------



## dseag2 (Aug 27, 2022)

I use my Chase Freedom card to pay for everything, including utility bills.  I just redeemed my points for $200 worth of Kroger grocery gift cards. 

Our electric bill is reasonable, even during 2 months of triple digit temperatures, because we had our windows replaced a few years ago.  I'm glad I spent the money when I was working so I can enjoy the savings in retirement.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 27, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> ny other tips?


If you own your house;
Insulate

Food:
Bulk, canned, frozen
Garden....big time (if you can)

Most everybody can do this;
*Eat at home*
...and when you do, finish those leftovers

Nothing much more expensive than;
driving to the store
buying the food
driving it home
putting it in the fridge
eating half of it
putting the rest back in the fridge
throwing that away a week later

Oh, and if you can;
Hang yer clothes on the line
Dryer time is expen$ive


----------



## sch404 (Aug 27, 2022)

I learned long ago the secret of frugal living: Spend less than you take in. Save the rest. If at any time you find yourself spending more than you're taking in, that to me is an emergency situation requiring immediate remedy. Good luck with your plan and Godspeed!


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Aug 27, 2022)

The use of heavy curtains is a good idea.
~*If you eat meat, eat less* and incorporate it into casseroles or make it the side dish rather than main dish. I hardly ever eat meat anymore.

~*Unplug your device chargers and any appliance* that you can when they are not in use if it's not a hassle. Or turn off the power strips they are plugged into. I can do this with my microwave, the power strip my NuWave oven, electric dryer and countertop dishwasher are plugged into and sometimes do it with my T.V.  Charging plugs/cables use what is called "phantom electricity" even when nothing is charging. HDTVs pull a lot. The first year I started unplugging, I saved close to $200.

~*Shop sales and stock up when you find great prices* (exception is fresh produce, unless they are freeze-able items). It helps to know the sales cycles. Also consider buying in bulk if you can. This can be done via wholesale clubs (Costco, BJs..I heard Sam's is expensive), Walmart and Amazon. DollarTree.com requires bulk buying (cases with 6 - 12 units, according to the item), which I gladly do for items I use regularly. After all, each unit is only $1.25.

~*Make full use of reward credit cards,* if you are inclined to use credit cards at all. I have several and admittedly although I have to note which ones to use where, it's payed off. My notepad app has my list of which cards are paying 5%, 3% and 2% and during which months. So far this year I've gotten back $1,138 in cash back rewards and bonuses. Banks are now rewarding people to open charge accounts with them. I put all except my utilities and carrying charges (aka HOA fees) on my credit cards (because their fees are ridiculous). Doing this doesn't cost me anything since I pay my balances in full each month. Besides my bank and credit union wouldn't pay me to write checks or pay online using my checking account.

~*Shop thrift/consignment shops.* I've gotten unbelievable bargains on designer clothes and coats from my favorite one.

~*If you regularly shop online, consider using Rakuten* which will mail you checks once you've reached the $5 rebate due mark. I've been using it for years back when it was Ebates. I've gotten my checks when due me. Rakuten *does* *not* take your credit card information but simply connects you to the retailer that's offering various percentages off. If you are interested in using Rakuten, *please let me know *and I'll PM you my referral code*. *When you use my referral code and spend $25 (on the sites of whatever retailers you choose) we both get bonuses.


----------



## Jules (Aug 27, 2022)

I’ve always been thrifty.  Shop the sales, be conservative with purchases, waste not - want not, etc.

One little thing lately.  Instead of making coffee twice for morning and lunch, I just make a larger pot and reheat what we need for the second cup.


----------



## Jules (Aug 27, 2022)

This article in CBC news online reaffirms what @hollydolly is saying.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-energy-costs-inflation-1.6562955



> U.K. inflation is already at 10.1 per cent, the highest rate of any country in the G7. The Bank of England is predicting the rate will rise to above 13 per cent in the weeks ahead, and some predictions have inflation hitting close to 19 per cent by January 2023.


----------



## Teacher Terry (Aug 28, 2022)

In the past year I have cut or substituted many items. My friend colors my hair instead of using a salon. I get my dogs groomed every 12 weeks instead of 8. I switched to T-Mobile’s prepaid plan for a flat fee of 15/month, switched from cable to you tube tv and share the cost with a friend.

Raised the deductible on my condo and car insurance. Grocery shop once a month at Winco which is the cheapest. Just pickup milk, fruit, etc in between. Raised the deductible on my pet insurance.


----------



## Owlivia (Aug 28, 2022)

I use the slow cooker instead of the oven when suitable. Leftovers!

Batch cook as others do, and helps me when I am in no mood to cook or short on time/organizing and also when my pain has reached a level where I do not want to do anything physical.  I really should have a separate freezer.

Made felt liners for curtains and have those blackout curtains as well which also help with keeping out the cold.  Made the felt curtain liners when we had an awful arctic wind chill advisory some years ago.  The weather forecasters were unfortunately accurate.  The relentless wind was bitter cold, more than usual, for at least a week. 

Use draft dodgers at the doors and some windowsills. Insulated the garage door, the garage is attached to the kitchen. 

Have used window foam insulation tape, hate it, it doesn't stick properly and windows won't shut completely.  So, I stopped using that.  

Bought the sticky rope insulation, which worked better, except it kept overheating from the sun, fell off, and would not stay in place.  I also just taped up the edges with painters tape, which did stay in place.

Chinese takeout has gone up by $5 for the same meal as two years ago.  We sometimes buy it on the lunchtime special, and there is enough in each entree to make two or three meals.  Again, leftovers!

Have wanted to plant evergreens across the front yard to help with wind protection and sun shade in the summer. I did plant four arborvitaes, they provide some shade for the porch.  Landscaping can be a money saver in the long run.

Use the 2nd spin cycle on the clothes washer which means less time in the dryer.  Hang some of the clothes instead of machine drying.  Usually use the cold water setting on the washer, saving money.  Also, some years ago I bought dryer balls which shave a few minutes off the dryer time. 

Tip:  Get a warm furry dog or cat to snuggle up to, free heat!

Tip:  Don't share your wine or champagne, one less glass to wash or you can drink from the bottle!

Tip:  Don't drive yourself crazy turning off the lights, fans, tvs, etc. that your spouse leaves on when leaving the house.  Turn them off, just don't drive yourself crazy.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 28, 2022)

RobinWren said:


> I think I read somewhere that you have a home in a warmer climate, would you not like to spend the winter there rather than having to pay the exorbitant prices expected in the UK.. I was shocked to see that on the news.


no, it's not possible for me to be there currently.....anyway, tbh I;ve spent winters there.. and contrary to popualr belief, it's really not that warm in winter, especially in the house where for obvious reasons there are no carpets.. there is no central heating , only reverse AC.. and there's no insulated walls..


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 28, 2022)

Jules said:


> This article in CBC news online reaffirms what @hollydolly is saying.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-energy-costs-inflation-1.6562955


yep and companies are now having to either close down or reduce their opening hours because they simply cannot afford the cost of utilities to stay open... Pubs are going to be killed in this country.. as it is we lost many (100's)  pubs after they had to close due to the enforced 2 year Covid closure. The pub culture is the single most popular form of entertainment in this country. .. Now the prediction is for £10 or more for a Pint of Beer.  There's no-one in their right mind would pay anything near £10 for a pint.. so this will finish the pubs off completely .

Last week our biggest Cinema Chain announced they were closing ..


----------



## katlupe (Aug 28, 2022)

Marie5656 said:


> *I live in a rent subsidized senior apartment bldg.  I have SNAP for food, HEAP for heat and electric.  I do not buy a lot of clothing....hey, retired, where do I have to go?  Just watch my spending*


Me also. I plan ahead for anything I have to buy until I have the cash for it. Not having a vehicle is helpful for me also.


----------



## Blessed (Aug 28, 2022)

I knew you were struggling over there but I guess I did not appreciate the full magnitude of what is happening.  At least here, we can move to cheaper areas of the country if needed. The one thing I think is more families can live together to keep going when there is no other option. That is often the way in many countries.


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 28, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> yes..many of us know this..but knowig it isn't going to help us find the money for the bills, when the govt will not entertain the idea of fracking..


Too bad, if y'all are unwilling to exploit your own resources its not a good thing, not surprising it has lead to shortages.  Of course the government is to blame, but ultimately its the voters.  Politicians do what they believe is most likely to get them reelected and stay in office.  On issues like this that very often is not necessarily the will of the majority.  If a minority voting block votes one way on an issue, but the majority is not as interested politicians go with that minority.  Such is the way a lot of things go.

I spent my whole career as an environmental engineer, mostly working in the oil industry, and am a strong supporter of protecting the environment.  However I see too much nonsense spouted in the name of the environment, this is one.  Fracking has caused some problems in the past, and we have learned from those.  Today's fracking is pretty safe, not 100%, but as safe and any energy source gets.  Same story with a lot of new industrial processes.

Do you have people speaking out on this?  That would help get the government to move.  Problem is if y'all changed the laws today and allowed fracking it would take about 5 years for the wells to be drilled, fracked, and brought online, couldn't be done overnight.  Not fast enough for this short term crisis, but it would reduce the chances of this happening again.  Best way to end your dependence on unreliable sources, like Russia.  It would also keep more of your money at home, sending less of it to unstable governments...


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 28, 2022)

It's been an ongoing debate for years... people vote in Politicians who promise to fulfil voters needs, and then renege  on them .. 

There was a point where we were going ahead with the fracking but it all stopped in 2019 when they found that fracking was causing Earthquakes..


----------



## Liberty (Aug 28, 2022)

Well, we finally had to get new HVAC units (2 big ones).  Can't complain, as the old units had lasted 38 years with minor repairs.  Good news is our electric bill in this horribly hot 4 month summer has gone 
down over $100 a month.  Sometimes dated equipment uses more juice.  Of course it will take years to 
make up for the cost of the new units but its nice is saving us some bucks...hoping for the same thing this winter.

Suggest everyone replace all their light bulbs with  low voltage LEDs.  Hub is a retired electrical engineer and that was the first thing he did around the house and outside - lights in the front and back.  They are amazing economical - we have a very large house and in the months where we don't use heating or A/C our bills are only around $75 to $80 bucks or so.  Can't beat it as we leave things like hallway desk lights and outside lights on 24/7.  He refuses to live in a house where its darker than a dungeon...especially in winter.  No way to live if you can help it.


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 28, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> It's been an ongoing debate for years... people vote in Politicians who promise to fulfil voters needs, and then renege  on them ..
> 
> There was a point where we were going ahead with the fracking but it all stopped in 2019 when they found that fracking was causing Earthquakes..


Understand the problem with politicians, I think that one is universal!

As to the earthquakes and fracking that is making mountains out of molehills.  While there is a kernel of truth to it, it is pretty well understood and a minor problem at best.  Fracking is just too weak a force to induce major earthquakes, and again we do know how to minimize that risk.  Other things we do, like injection of wastewater to the ground causes more of these minor earthquakes but that doesn't seem to worry anyone.  See https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/does-fracking-cause-earthquakes

One example is the reinjection of produced water.  When oil is extracted far more water comes up than oil, and that water is pretty contaminated.  It needs safe disposal and a common approach is simply to reinject it.  That introduces a lot more force and contaminated fluids than fracking, and probably causes more earthquakes.  Y'all do a lot of it without much concern https://assets.publishing.service.g...on_to_deep_geological_formations_-_report.pdf

Don't mean to pick on you, in the US we do as many irrational things with respect to the environment and public policy.  However, here I can see a pretty direct link to your current gas shortage.  Hopefully your press and politicians are talking about this, would be best if it were better understood.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 28, 2022)

You seem to be holding me personally responsible for not having fracking....


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 28, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> You seem to be holding me personally responsible for not having fracking....


LOL, I'm sure you are!

And probably for many other things, going back to the Kennedy assassination. Where were you that day?  Any witnesses?


----------



## Paco Dennis (Aug 28, 2022)

Blessed said:


> I knew you were struggling over there but I guess I did not appreciate the full magnitude of what is happening.  At least here, we can move to cheaper areas of the country if needed. The one thing I think is more families can live together to keep going when there is no other option. That is often the way in many countries.


Better be careful. That is beginning to sound like communism. Maybe a better word would be communalism.?


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 28, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> LOL, I'm sure you are!
> 
> And probably for many other things, going back to the Kennedy assassination. Where were you that day?  Any witnesses?


I was fracking... 8 years old...


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 28, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I was fracking... 8 years old..


I think there were reports of a small Celtic girl with a small rifle on the grassy knoll...

Not sure fracking at the time will hold up as an alibi, not much of that happening in 1963.


----------



## Pappy (Aug 28, 2022)

I see trouble ahead if everything keeps going up. We live on a very fixed income and we have had to give up a couple things we enjoy.


----------



## bingo (Aug 28, 2022)

_we've been  preparing for this..downsized  to small home...wood burning  capability...we get a cord of firewood...already to go...$10...portable  solar...water catchment  system...non perishable  food..._


----------



## Geezerette (Aug 28, 2022)

Sounds like people are being very creative in being economical! My 22 year old Subaru Outback gets low gas mileage but not worth spending hundreds at a garage to save $1here and there.So I’ve tried to reduce driving. If I have certain errands to to I try to do them at the closest places, and try to group them in one trip away from home.
Not  buying luxury items like  for example,Canadian or New England maple syrup at>$7 a bottle, substituting  much cheaper dark brown sugar for the hot cereal etc.
Overall,just trying to be thrifty but sometimes it happens that the higher priced item may be actual better for whatever than cheaper store .
I grew up during WWII in a very thrifty home. Family wasn’t hard up for money but had those Yankee penny pincher habits. My SS raise wasn’t enough cover the 18% rent raise I got on Feb.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> I used my Chase Freedom card to pay for everything, including utility bills.  I just redeemed my points for $200 worth of Kroger grocery gift cards.
> 
> Our electric bill is reasonable, even during 2 months of triple digit temperatures, because we had our windows replaced a few years ago.  I'm glad I spent the money when I was working so I can enjoy the savings in retirement.


Hi @dseag2, it's interesting what you said about your Chase Freedom card paying for everything. Is this a rewards program? I earn reward points on my credit card that I choose to put back into the next bill. They can also give me the credit as a money card.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> I would be leery of spending money to save money.
> 
> Take a look at the window insulation kits and compare the cost to the potential savings.
> 
> ...


@Aunt Bea, thanks for the tips! I agree with you about spending money to save money - so I will rethink the window kits. I did up the thermostat on my a/c to 74 (was 71-72 before) now that it's getting cooler and turned on ceiling fans instead. I also don't pay for cable tv. Use youtube a lot and free Pluto.tv on my computer (thanks to a SF member who mentioned it). As to disposable items, can't negotiate toilet paper .


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

Blessed said:


> I am excited for fall and winter, I like it cold so I don't use the heater that much. I just take bath towels, roll them up and put in the window sill to block any drafts and keep heat from going out the window. I do laundry in cold water. When I shower, get in, get wet.  Turn off the water, lather up, shave my legs.  Turn water back on wash and condition hair while I am rinsing off.
> 
> If I am not in the room, everything is turned off. I don't use the lights unless I am cooking or reading.  I have chronic migraines so I like the darkness.  I don't open the draps summer or winter unless company comes.
> 
> ...


Thanks, @Blessed! I will be coming back to read these over and over again. I like the idea of the bath towel and the window sill! Last year, our neighbor behind our house cut her tall trees down (after one of them fell into my back yard) and the winter was exceedingly brutal as we got the cold wind that the trees used to protect us from - and unfortunately the winter bills were very high. I also like the large pantry idea.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

Lawrence00 said:


> No restaurant visits for 2 years. Am avoiding carbs right now, but quinoa added to just an off the shelf plain label soup is a cheap dinner. Also, rice and beans are a complete protein.


@Lawrence, I think the restaurant visits is an excellent idea! After my husband passed away, I didn't want to cook (cooking was associated with him!) so we ate out a lot. Then I started cooking again. Now, years later, I rarely eat out at restaurants except for a special occasion (birthday, etc).


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

HoneyNut said:


> I put those on my living room windows one winter in my house and literally saved 50% of my electric bill every single month.  But I think it was because there was some sneaky air leak at one of the windows -- probably properly caulking around all the windows would have been better, but I'm not at all handy.


I'm glad those window kits helped, @HoneyNut. I noticed the caulking around the outside of my windows is breaking up after 3 years (20 year warranty!) and am thinking to buy more of the same stuff to caulk again, but can't do the upstairs floor, just the first floor.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Another thing I got a few months ago was nightlights.. which plug into the sockets at the top and bottom of my stairs..  they come on when they detect movement.. and stay on for about 30 seconds, enough time to get up and downstairs ....  also saves having to put the main lights on when I get up in the night..


I think that's an excellent idea, @hollydolly!


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Buy in bulk where possible.. it's almost always cheaper... Batch cook..and freeze food..in single or double portions.. ..
> 
> Buy frozen veggies rather than fresh. Frozen are better for you, because they retain more vitamins.. and  of course there's no waste, and you have them on hand whenever you need them


Thanks for the tips! I heard about the frozen foods. Do you think it's good to invest in an extra freezer and store frozen foods? My sister has one, but she has a large family.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> If you own your house;
> Insulate
> 
> Food:
> ...


Great tips @Gary O'! I read somewhere once about a guy who insulated his home so much that he didn't need to use any a/c or heating during the seasons and was even able to grow a banana tree in his house. Can't remember his name, though. That always fascinated me. I think he used these thick concrete blocks for his home. Gardening is a wonderful idea as well, and eating at home has become my way of life once more.


----------



## Kika (Aug 28, 2022)

I never liked using paper towels (found them wasteful) and used to tear off just enough for what I needed.  I would tear off just a corner to wipe a tiny spill.  Then I realized I had a LOT of microfiber cloths that I used for windows and other cleaning. I now use them instead of paper towels.  I hand wash them after soaking them in an old Tupperware container and hang them in the shower to dry.

During the pandemic toilet paper was expensive and hard to get at times.  I bought a handheld portable bidet from Amazon and reduced TP use immensely.
I continued this practice, and only buy TP to stock up when I find a bargain.

I have stopped going out to restaurants and very much limit ordering delivery.
When my cable bill reached $288/mo, I cancelled it and now have a $25 antenna for live local news, and Netflix and free Hulu along with $74 month internet .  It is more than enough for me and a big $$ savings.

I batch cook and freeze.  I love soup, and always have portion size containers stacked up in the freezer, labeled and dated.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> The use of heavy curtains is a good idea.
> ~*If you eat meat, eat less* and incorporate it into casseroles or make it the side dish rather than main dish. I hardly ever eat meat anymore.
> 
> ~*Unplug your device chargers and any appliance* that you can when they are not in use if it's not a hassle. Or turn off the power strips they are plugged into. I can do this with my microwave, the power strip my NuWave oven, electric dryer and countertop dishwasher are plugged into and sometimes do it with my T.V.  Charging plugs/cables use what is called "phantom electricity" even when nothing is charging. HDTVs pull a lot. The first year I started unplugging, I saved close to $200.
> ...


Thanks, @OneEyedDiva! Great tips! I don't eat meat that much anyway. I also like to shop sales (buy 1 get 1 free are my favorites). I will also check into Rakuten.


----------



## Blessed (Aug 28, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> Thanks for the tips! I heard about the frozen foods. Do you think it's good to invest in an extra freezer and store frozen foods? My sister has one, but she has a large family.


I don't have a large freezer like I did when my husband was still here, and the son with his friends.  Now I have two fridges.  One in the kitchen, one in the laundry room.  Works well for me!


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

Kika said:


> I never liked using paper towels (found them wasteful) and used to tear off just enough for what I needed.  I would tear off just a corner to wipe a tiny spill.  Then I realized I had a LOT of microfiber cloths that I used for windows and other cleaning. I now use them instead of paper towels.  I hand wash them after soaking them in an old Tupperware container and hang them in the shower to dry.
> 
> During the pandemic toilet paper was expensive and hard to get at times.  I bought a handheld portable bidet from Amazon and reduced TP use immensely.
> I continued this practice, and only buy TP to stock up when I find a bargain.
> ...


Thanks, @Kika! I'm a BIG paper towel user. I must change that. I will consider using those cloths you mentioned (I have some) and washing and reusing. I will also check into the portable bidet. Also, great ideas about batch cooking and freezing!


----------



## Don M. (Aug 28, 2022)

Since this Covid hit, a couple of years ago, we have substantially reduced our "running around".  We used to go to the casinos every 3 or 4 weeks....now, we go perhaps once every 3 months.  Instead of running to town for every little purchase, we keep a list, and combine everything to shopping about once a week.  That way, these ridiculous gas prices have had minimal impact.  
A couple of years ago, our old central AC compressor started making a lot of noise, so we had everything replaced with a much more energy efficient unit....the savings on our Summer electric bills will probably pay for the new unit in about 5 years.  
Grocery prices have gotten our attention, so we pay close attention to any bargains, and stock up a bit more if we find any.  
Overall, our savings have grown nicely, as a result, and we have "adjusted" to a more "stay at home" lifestyle.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

Geezerette said:


> Sounds like people are being very creative in being economical! My 22 year old Subaru Outback gets low gas mileage but not worth spending hundreds at a garage to save $1here and there.So I’ve tried to reduce driving. If I have certain errands to to I try to do them at the closest places, and try to group them in one trip away from home.
> Not  buying luxury items like  for example,Canadian or New England maple syrup at>$7 a bottle, substituting  much cheaper dark brown sugar for the hot cereal etc.
> Overall,just trying to be thrifty but sometimes it happens that the higher priced item may be actual better for whatever than cheaper store .
> I grew up during WWII in a very thrifty home. Family wasn’t hard up for money but had those Yankee penny pincher habits. My SS raise wasn’t enough cover the 18% rent raise I got on Feb.


Thanks, @Geezerette, for the tips! Grouping your trips to do errands near your home makes a lot of sense. Was thinking of going out today to sell some CDs and books at a  thrift bookstore but decided to wait until I needed to do more errands in that area. Just the gas to go and come back would not be enough to offset the sales (they don't pay that much, but I'm trying to declutter - have so many books and CDs!). We were poor growing up and didn't have a car. We walked everywhere. We also never ate outI I remember my father all the time telling us to shut the lights. Sorry that your rent has gone up 18%! I am hoping the 2023 SS hike due to inflation (expected around  9-10%) will help us senior citizens!


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 28, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> Thanks for the tips! I heard about the frozen foods. Do you think it's good to invest in an extra freezer and store frozen foods? My sister has one, but she has a large family.


I live alone.. and I have 3 Freezers.. Granted when I got them my husband was here, but now prices have risen so much they're even more handy for me to bulk buy and freeze as much as I can..

I have a tall larder freezer in the Barn.. a Chest freezer in the Shed.. and a Fridge freezer in the Kitchen.. I realise they're costing money to run, but I really feel it the savings far outweigh the cost of the electricity..

It's not just in the price of food but also in the price of fuel, and wear and tear in the car  not going out as much  for groceries.. 

With my larders full of canned and packet goods.. If I had to, I could probably live for about 6 weeks just with what's in the house.. and eat well


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 28, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> Thanks, @Geezerette, for the tips! Grouping your trips to do errands near your home makes a lot of sense. Was thinking of going out today to sell some CDs and books at a  thrift bookstore but decided to wait until I needed to do more errands in that area. Just the gas to go and come back would not be enough to offset the sales (they don't pay that much, but I'm trying to declutter - have so many books and CDs!). We were poor growing up and didn't have a car. We walked everywhere. We also never ate outI I remember my father all the time telling us to shut the lights. Sorry that your rent has gone up 18%! I am hoping the 2023 SS hike due to inflation (expected around  9-10%) will help us senior citizens!


This is precisely what I do..whereas I might have just gone out each day without thinking about it.. I think about where I should do my shopping.. for example..if I have donations to drop off at a Charity shop.. and I have to get Fuel.. and I also have to buy groceries .. I think about which town has all those things,  and do it all in one outing.., and even when I might be going out for the day, I'll often do my shopping on the return journey to save me going out again the next day..

We were also very poor growing up..  and like you we were always getting told to turn lights off etc.. , we also walked everywhere, or took a bus if it was a long disttance. My father did have a couple of cars at one stage, but  he would have been appalled if we'd asked for a ride to school or town.. and wouldn't have allowed it.. so I do know how to squeeze a penny.. if I have to...


----------



## Blessed (Aug 28, 2022)

I am lucky that everything I need is nearby but I still group my errands when I go out.  I just filled up the car, I only need to do this every 3 months or so.  You can tell by that alone that I don't go far or often.  I can walk anywhere if I need to for now, it gives me peace of mind. With groceries, pharmacies, library, post office, a mall, restaurants, fast food in walking distance.  The big thing is my vet is about a mile away.  The two littles don't like to walk on a leash, the big boy likes to walk me (or pull me down) that is a tricky thing.  If they have to go, an emergency and I can't drive for some reason,  I call the son.


----------



## Leann (Aug 28, 2022)

These are all excellent ideas. I haven't much to add. I've learned a few things from all of you!


----------



## Packerjohn (Aug 28, 2022)

I'm from Canada and folks around here are all living "high of that proverbial hog."  They line up at Tim Horton's every morning running their cars and burning gas.  Seems everyone has huge homes, drives big 4X4 gas guzzling monster trucks.  Alot of em' have cottages by the lake.  Many of them folks also have 2 snowmobiles in the winter and 2 personal water craft for the summer.  Why you ask?  Well, one for him and one for her.  At $12,000 each the dealers are smiling all the way to the bank.  Everyone yaking on expensive cell phone with an expensive carrier.  Sure some folks are beginning to suffer but if you live in Canada you might think that this is the Northern edition of the "rich and famous" living in Hollywood.  

Problem is that almost all of them are living on credit cards.  In the end, the rising interest rates will give them an education like they never had.   

Me, I'm doing fine.  I live in an apartment, eat little since I don't have much of an appetite, car is paid off, I never pay interest on my credit cards and I like my little nest egg in the bank.  LOL  Life is good and let that bank interest rate rise and rise; just like that lucky ole' sun every morning.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> I'm from Canada and folks around here are all living "high of that proverbial hog."  They line up at Tim Horton's every morning running their cars and burning gas.  Seems everyone has huge homes, drives big 4X4 gas guzzling monster trucks.  Alot of em' have cottages by the lake.  Many of them folks also have 2 snowmobiles in the winter and 2 personal water craft for the summer.  Why you ask?  Well, one for him and one for her.  At $12,000 each the dealers are smiling all the way to the bank.  Everyone yaking on expensive cell phone with an expensive carrier.  Sure some folks are beginning to suffer but if you live in Canada you might think that this is the Northern edition of the "rich and famous" living in Hollywood.
> 
> Problem is that almost all of them are living on credit cards.  In the end, the rising interest rates will give them an education like they never had.
> 
> Me, I'm doing fine.  I live in an apartment, eat little since I don't have much of an appetite, car is paid off, I never pay interest on my credit cards and I like my little nest egg in the bank.  LOL  Life is good and let that bank interest rate rise and rise; just like that lucky ole' sun every morning.


I'm also looking forward to the bank interest rate rising!


----------



## HarryHawk (Aug 28, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> I'm also looking forward to the bank interest rate rising!


It may be a long wait.  If interest is a concern, you may want to look into Treasury Bills.  They mature in weeks and are currently paying  2.5 - 3.25.  Once you set up your account, they are easy to purchase and redeem.  They are just as safe as money in the bank, maybe more so.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

HarryHawk said:


> It may be a long wait.  If interest is a concern, you may want to look into Treasury Bills.  They mature in weeks and are currently paying  2.5 - 3.25.  Once you set up your account, they are easy to purchase and redeem.  They are just as safe as money in the bank, maybe more so.


We used to get Treasury Bills in the past. Will check into them. I found a few banks around here that pay 3% but longterm (over 3 years).


----------



## David777 (Aug 28, 2022)

Avoid buying into the American way of going into constant debt. I live in Santa Clara County aka Silicon Valley, one of the most expensive areas in the nation.  Live in a 60s era 2 story 2 bdrm 4-plex townhouse with poor wall insualtion. Yet have lived 5+ years since retiring on my monthly SS benefit check without using any of my bank saving/assets.

Many people at all economic levels eat out for many meals from restaurants and fast food to convenience stores.  Much cheaper buying from supermarkets, especially low cost markets, and preparing one's own food, snacks, meals. And what about your meat every meal habit? Or daily alcohol/cigarettes/drugs/gambling? Not good for your health or pocketbook. 

Also many are addicted to a list of telecom services, especially tv.  Also energy costs of warming/cooling one's residence and lighting/appliances that really don't need to be turned on 24/7. Use open or closed windows/doors times of day to control temperature.  Wear warm clothes in winter. Many people only go on expensive package vacations.  There are plenty of inexpensive alternatives for leisure and vacations.

David:  Never wealthy, never ever in debt. Summer AC and winter heating turned of for 2 decades.  Electric/gas bill about $40/month. Only Internet access and web hosting telecom bill as in no cable/streaming, cheap telephone service.


----------



## Blessed (Aug 28, 2022)

David777 said:


> Avoid buying into the American way of going into constant debt. I live in Santa Clara County aka Silicon Valley, one of the most expensive areas in the nation.  Live in a 60s era 2 story 2 bdrm 4-plex townhouse with poor wall insualtion. Yet have lived 5+ years since retiring on my monthly SS benefit check without using any of my bank saving/assets.
> 
> Many people at all economic levels eat out for many meals from restaurants and fast food  and convenience stores.  Much cheaper buying from supermarkets, especially low cost markets, and preparing one's own food, snacks, meals. And what about your meat every meal habit? Or daily alcohol/cigarettes/drugs/gambling? Not got for your health or pocketbook.
> 
> ...


You still need to go get that hernia fixed, self care should be at the top of the list!


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

David777 said:


> Avoid buying into the American way of going into constant debt. I live in Santa Clara County aka Silicon Valley, one of the most expensive areas in the nation.  Live in a 60s era 2 story 2 bdrm 4-plex townhouse with poor wall insualtion. Yet have lived 5+ years since retiring on my monthly SS benefit check without using any of my bank saving/assets.
> 
> Many people at all economic levels eat out for many meals from restaurants and fast food  and convenience stores.  Much cheaper buying from supermarkets, especially low cost markets, and preparing one's own food, snacks, meals. And what about your meat every meal habit? Or daily alcohol/cigarettes/drugs/gambling? Not got for your health or pocketbook.
> 
> ...


Great tips, @David777!  I don't eat that much meat and no alcohol/cigarettes/drugs/gambling! have not been in debt for over 25 years now. Paid off our home. But this last year has set me back - a leak in the basement with a 10,000 dollar insurance deductible, losses in the stock market (oh boy!), unexpected dental costs, helping family members in need, and having to finance my son's last year college education (40,000/yr). As a result, I have made a concentrated effort to stop the "bleeding of money."


----------



## Blessed (Aug 28, 2022)

Hate to say it but you should not be helping family members in need. They have lived a life above their means, I am not bailing them out, they should have saved enough to be prepared.  You should not be financially supporting your son's college. I did pay for my son's college education but I could do it outright.  I would never take on a debt to do it.  

We are at the age where we have to be careful.  There is not room enough in the budget to take care of others. It is also beneficial to them, they will learn what it is to stuggle and that leads to financial responsibility.  It can be a hard lesson but sometimes needed to learn.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 28, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> I read somewhere once about a guy who insulated his home so much that he didn't need to use any a/c or heating during the seasons


Yeah, that's us
In summer, we close it all up in the morn
and open everything in the evening
Stays cool 24/7

Blew lotsa insulation into the attic last summer
Big big dif in winter heating bills
Heat goes up...and out if it can

Our monthly bill is on annual average (steady as she goes), 
but I still keep an eye on the usage vs last year's


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

Blessed said:


> Hate to say it but you should not be helping family members in need. They have lived a life above their means, I am not bailing them out, they should have saved enough to be prepared.  You should not be financially supporting your son's college. I did pay for my son's college education but I could do it outright.  I would never take on a debt to do it.
> 
> We are at the age where we have to be careful.  There is not room enough in the budget to take care of others. It is also beneficial to them, they will learn what it is to stuggle and that leads to financial responsibility.  It can be a hard lesson but sometimes needed to learn.


I understand your concern, @Blessed. But like you, I was able to do it (finance my son's education). No debt. I'm at the stage now where I just want to slow down on giving to others and focus on me and my needs.


----------



## Kika (Aug 28, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> I just want to slow down on giving to others and focus on me and my needs.


That is exactly where I am right now.  After many years of helping family members and some friends, I have decided that it is time for me now.  My new rapid response is:  "I'm sorry, I wish I could help, but I can't right now."


----------



## Paco Dennis (Aug 28, 2022)

Kika said:


> That is exactly where I am right now.  After many years of helping family members and some friends, I have decided that it is time for me now.  My new rapid response is:  "I'm sorry, I wish I could help, but I can't right now."


  This so timely for us right now. Just this morning a relative that we have been supporting for years was told that we could no longer support him, and that he better find a way to BUDGET!!


----------



## MickaC (Aug 28, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I live alone.. and I have 3 Freezers.. Granted when I got them my husband was here, but now prices have risen so much they're even more handy for me to bulk buy and freeze as much as I can..
> 
> I have a tall larder freezer in the Barn.. a Chest freezer in the Shed.. and a Fridge freezer in the Kitchen.. I realise they're costing money to run, but I really feel it the savings far outweigh the cost of the electricity..
> 
> ...


I’m not being critical…..for only being one person…..you have a huge inventory of food…..must last you much more than 6 weeks.


----------



## Blessed (Aug 28, 2022)

MickaC said:


> I’m not being critical…..for only being one person…..you have a huge inventory of food…..must last you much more than 6 weeks.


I am sure it would but she has never had to test it.  I think my freezers and pantry would keep me six months or longer.  Keep in mind I have dry milk and eggs in the freezer.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 28, 2022)

Found this interesting youtube video on how to freeze your food and save money -


----------



## MickaC (Aug 28, 2022)

Blessed said:


> I am sure it would but she has never had to test it.  I think my freezers and pantry would keep me six months or longer.  Keep in mind I have dry milk and eggs in the freezer.


I keep my freezer and pantry well stocked. Stock up on sales, cooking, not so much baking anymore.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 28, 2022)

MickaC said:


> I’m not being critical…..for only being one person…..you have a huge inventory of food…..must last you much more than 6 weeks.


why must it ?... the vast majority of the frozen food in the 2 outside freezers is vegetables...


----------



## RobinWren (Aug 28, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> If you own your house;
> Insulate
> 
> Food:
> ...


We are not allowed to hang clothes outside but even if I could that is one thing I would not do. Too many wet Mondays in and out with the washing. Too many reminders of hanging out the clothes to dry, ironing them, then airing them. oh my goodness and I hadn't even left home.


----------



## RobinWren (Aug 28, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> no, it's not possible for me to be there currently.....anyway, tbh I;ve spent winters there.. and contrary to popualr belief, it's really not that warm in winter, especially in the house where for obvious reasons there are no carpets.. there is no central heating , only reverse AC.. and there's no insulated walls..


Then I hope that maybe next year you will be able to use it.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 28, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> I'm at the stage now where I just want to slow down on giving to others and focus on me and my needs.


Yeah

When the able keep asking, and I keep denying, they get a bit testy
My retort;
'Hey, just be glad we're not relying on *you*!'

Seems to back 'em off a bit


----------



## John cycling (Aug 28, 2022)

*Fracking's environmental effect on clean water.*  <--







*The bottle in the center is contaminated water from their tap caused by fracking.*


> One of the gravest threats posed by fracking is the contamination of drinking water wells, vital sources of water for many rural communities.  Though the industry has attempted to *obscure evidence* of well water contamination by fracking, multiple instances have come to light.





> In 2015, a Greenpeace investigation found that the shale industry had *undue influence* on EPA’s study of fracking’s impact on groundwater.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 28, 2022)

RobinWren said:


> We are not allowed to hang clothes outside but even if I could that is one thing I would not do. Too many wet Mondays in and out with the washing. Too many reminders of hanging out the clothes to dry, ironing them, then airing them. oh my goodness and I hadn't even left home.


Guess it depends on how frugal ya wanna be....or need to be
In my world, being frugal requires work

Ironing?
What's an iron?

Then airing them?
Really?
That's what clothes lines are for
Heh, there's things folks buy to put in their dryers to make their clothes smell like they've been dried on the line

When yer in a pinch, ya gotta adapt
Git off yer keester
Saves on gym fees

What am I missing?


----------



## dseag2 (Aug 28, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> Hi @dseag2, it's interesting what you said about your Chase Freedom card paying for everything. Is this a rewards program? I earn reward points on my credit card that I choose to put back into the next bill. They can also give me the credit as a money card.


Yes, it is a rewards program, and I have a variety of choices.  I can receive a credit on my statement, receive cash back, use the points toward Amazon purchases or receive gift cards.  In this particular case, I chose 4, $50 Krogers gift cards.  Chase also sends me offers each month for various merchants.  I received savings on Chevron gas, which I would have never used otherwise.  I also received savings on Le Madeleine, where we frequently eat.


----------



## dseag2 (Aug 28, 2022)

Blessed said:


> I put all my coupons straight away into my wallet in a special place, they are always with me.  With the CVS ones, I put them in the center of the wallet.  I see them everytime I open my wallet.  It reminds to keep up with the expiration dates.  They all get used, nothing like free money LOL


Because I regularly shop at Kroger, they sent me coupons in the mail for actual items that I BUY!  I used one today to save $1.50 off 3 cans of cat food that I would have bought anyway.  I also have coupons for frozen pizza (our snacks), All laundry detergent, $10 worth of produce, etc.  I have them out and ready to go for when I'm ready to stock up.  

When I was working, I had no use for coupons.  It was "get in and get out" when shopping.  How retirement changes us!


----------



## Blessed (Aug 28, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Because I regularly shop at Kroger, they sent me coupons in the mail for actual items that I BUY!  I used one today to save $1.50 off 3 cans of cat food that I would have bought anyway.  I also have coupons for frozen pizza (our snacks), All laundry detergent, $10 worth of produce, etc.  I have them out and ready to go for when I'm ready to stock up.
> 
> When I was working, I had no use for coupons.  It was "get in and get out" when shopping.  How retirement changes us!


you bet, I use those coupons and I shop those sales. I have found Kroger to have excellent sales and then we stack coupons on the items we use to save even more money.  The more we save, the more we can spend on other things.  In your case travel, sounds like you and the hubs have some great trips planned!!


----------



## dseag2 (Aug 28, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> yep and companies are now having to either close down or reduce their opening hours because they simply cannot afford the cost of utilities to stay open... Pubs are going to be killed in this country.. as it is we lost many (100's)  pubs after they had to close due to the enforced 2 year Covid closure. The pub culture is the single most popular form of entertainment in this country. .. Now the prediction is for £10 or more for a Pint of Beer.  There's no-one in their right mind would pay anything near £10 for a pint.. so this will finish the pubs off completely .
> 
> Last week our biggest Cinema Chain announced they were closing ..


One of our biggest cinema chains, Regal Cinemas, just filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.  With that said, I saw crowds dwindling even before the pandemic, inflation and rising energy costs.  I think younger people are just streaming movies these days.  I still prefer to see movies in a theater and from my experience the crowds are mostly older.


----------



## Remy (Aug 28, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> Guess it depends on how frugal ya wanna be....or need to be
> In my world, being frugal requires work
> 
> Ironing?
> ...


I'm in an apartment and hang my clothes on the patio on two folding racks. They can't be seen. I refuse to use the dryer when I can air dry them for free.

I also use scent free natural laundry soap.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 28, 2022)

Remy said:


> I also use scent free natural laundry soap.


Yeah, up at the cabin, my lady used a bar of Zote soap


----------



## dseag2 (Aug 28, 2022)

Liberty said:


> Well, we finally had to get new HVAC units (2 big ones).  Can't complain, as the old units had lasted 38 years with minor repairs.  Good news is our electric bill in this horribly hot 4 month summer has gone
> down over $100 a month.  Sometimes dated equipment uses more juice.  Of course it will take years to
> make up for the cost of the new units but its nice is saving us some bucks...hoping for the same thing this winter.
> 
> Suggest everyone replace all their light bulbs with  low voltage LEDs.  Hub is a retired electrical engineer and that was the first thing he did around the house and outside - lights in the front and back.  They are amazing economical - we have a very large house and in the months where we don't use heating or A/C our bills are only around $75 to $80 bucks or so.  Can't beat it as we leave things like hallway desk lights and outside lights on 24/7.  He refuses to live in a house where its darker than a dungeon...especially in winter.  No way to live if you can help it.


We replaced our 2 big units (for upstairs and downstairs) a few years ago as well.  One of our neighbors is in IT for an A/C company and told us we made a good choice.  They weren't cheap, but the savings in our electric bills (along with getting energy efficient windows) has amazed me during our triple digit months.


----------



## Remy (Aug 28, 2022)

@Packerjohn Got to wonder if that lifestyle is going to catch up with those people. I've never lived like that. I see the lines at the drive through coffee. I buy the barista oat milk for my coffee by the quart and I'm drinking fine tasty coffee at home. Bring my lunch to work everyday now and when I worked full time.


----------



## Remy (Aug 28, 2022)

The AC units at my apartment complex are old, probably original when they were built about 1990. Some have been replaced. I've thought that they are probably inefficient and more costly to run. The lucky apartments have had theirs replace. I have an old one.

These new owners are putting what I'm sure is cheap pergo in the apartments if they are vacated. To dazzle the prospective tenants. The people should take a look at the AC unit instead.


----------



## Blessed (Aug 28, 2022)

I do use the dryer but when the clothes are about halfway dry I pull them out and hang dry the rest of the way,  It takes care of the wrinkles, no ironing needed.  The towels and sheets are dried.  I don't have a clothes line and am not going to put one in.  I know they work well, I had one growing up but I would rather save in other ways.  We all have our hated chore or foods, now we get to pick what suits us and the budget.


----------



## PamfromTx (Aug 28, 2022)

PamfromTx said:


> And my husband is complaining about our electric bill.  Highest since our move to the valley.  We weren't use to paying this amount.  It was $183.  Central air has run constantly.


No sad faces please; we are doing well.  It's just a surprise at how high the electric bill was.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 29, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> One of our biggest cinema chains, Regal Cinemas, just filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.  With that said, I saw crowds dwindling even before the pandemic, inflation and rising energy costs.  I think younger people are just streaming movies these days.  I still prefer to see movies in a theater and from my experience the crowds are mostly older.


..and the cost of a ticket is sky high not to mention extras like Popcorn... so taking a family to the cinema  can be extortionately expensive


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 29, 2022)

Blessed said:


> I do use the dryer but when the clothes are about halfway dry I pull them out and hang dry the rest of the way,  It takes care of the wrinkles, no ironing needed.  The towels and sheets are dried.  I don't have a clothes line and am not going to put one in.  I know they work well, I had one growing up but I would rather save in other ways.  We all have our hated chore or foods, now we get to pick what suits us and the budget.


I have an extendible clothes line, and I rather not use it for drying clothes. I prefer my clothes to be tumble dried which means I don't have to iron them, Further..when they're on the line they often get little tiny beetles on them..which I sometimes don't see and they end up in the house when I bring the clothes in.. 

I do use the line when I'm washing the rugs.. or large items like the duvet.


----------



## Packerjohn (Aug 29, 2022)

David777 said:


> Avoid buying into the American way of going into constant debt. I live in Santa Clara County aka Silicon Valley, one of the most expensive areas in the nation.  Live in a 60s era 2 story 2 bdrm 4-plex townhouse with poor wall insualtion. Yet have lived 5+ years since retiring on my monthly SS benefit check without using any of my bank saving/assets.
> 
> Many people at all economic levels eat out for many meals from restaurants and fast food to convenience stores.  Much cheaper buying from supermarkets, especially low cost markets, and preparing one's own food, snacks, meals. And what about your meat every meal habit? Or daily alcohol/cigarettes/drugs/gambling? Not good for your health or pocketbook.
> 
> ...


David777 has hit the "nail right on the head."  Massive debt in America & Canada is by weak, guillable, sheep type of people who are trying to live some sort of Hollywood millionaire lifestyle.  Keeping up with those silly "Jones" has given them nothing but forever debt.


----------



## Liberty (Aug 29, 2022)

Remy said:


> The AC units at my apartment complex are old, probably original when they were built about 1990. Some have been replaced. I've thought that they are probably inefficient and more costly to run. The lucky apartments have had theirs replace. I have an old one.
> 
> These new owners are putting what I'm sure is cheap pergo in the apartments if they are vacated. To dazzle the prospective tenants. The people should take a look at the AC unit instead.


Wonder how many people even think to ask about the past utility charges of the units they are thinking of 
living in.  Have head complaints about small apartments having such costly electric/gas bills.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 29, 2022)

In an effort to lower my electricity bill, today I raised my thermostat to 76. I usually keep it at 72. As a result, I changed from my usual long-sleeved top to a sleeveless top and made sure the ceiling fans were working. it's been very comfortable all day, even though outside was in the upper 80s.  The other change I did was to wash my clothes with cold water instead of warm or hot water. I have not used a clothes line for drying - yet. Incremental steps will get me there.


----------



## Liberty (Aug 29, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> In an effort to lower my electricity bill, today I raised my thermostat to 76. I usually keep it at 72. As a result, I changed from my usual long-sleeved top to a sleeveless top and made sure the ceiling fans were working. it's been very comfortable all day, even though outside was in the upper 80s.  The other change I did was to wash my clothes with cold water instead of warm or hot water. I have not used a clothes line for drying - yet. Incremental steps will get me there.


You won't believe it but we keep our house at 82°.  The house is built for co efficient energy  construction - especially warm weather wise and the A/Cs make it too cold if we put down in the high 70's.  Ceiling fans are part of the air exchange so like your place, it really keeps it nice and comfortable - all summer long and its been a very long hot summer this year!


----------



## Jules (Aug 29, 2022)

I say nothing (except to you guys) to my DD.  She‘s a spender.  We were in a nice restaurant and her 12 year son ordered dessert, $13.  He was the only one. She always orders an appetizer or two.  Glad they picked up the bill, it would have been sizeable.


----------



## Remy (Aug 29, 2022)

Liberty said:


> You won't believe it but we keep our house at 82°.  The house is built for co efficient energy  construction - especially warm weather wise and the A/Cs make it too cold if we put down in the high 70's.  Ceiling fans are part of the air exchange so like your place, it really keeps it nice and comfortable - all summer long and its been a very long hot summer this year!


Keep mine on 83. Sometimes 82 at night. Glad to see another doing the same. You actually get used to it. I'm lucky I don't get the afternoon sun at least.

The ceiling fan in the dining area is OK but the clicking noise gets on my nerves so I don't really use it. The one in the bedroom is small and unusable.


----------



## RobinWren (Aug 29, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> Guess it depends on how frugal ya wanna be....or need to be
> In my world, being frugal requires work
> 
> Ironing?
> ...


I am talking the 60's,  and where I grew up Monday was washing day depending on the weather that job wasn't finished until Tuesday. We had a wringer washer, before that a mangle, never a dryer. Joy oh Joy those were the days


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 29, 2022)

RobinWren said:


> I am talking the 60's, and where I grew up Monday was washing day depending on the weather that job wasn't finished until Tuesday. We had a wringer washer, before that a mangle, never a dryer. Joy oh Joy those were the days


Yeah, I know that one
only we didn't have the mangle
and it was the '50s

Moms did the wash
hung the wash
unhung the wash
folded the clothes and linen
ironed the other clothes
made breakfast, lunch, dinner ('tween times)
Kept the house
tended the garden

The job was steady
The pay sucked

No wonder her and many more ran out the door and got jobs

Then
Gramma did the wash
hung the wash
unhung the wash
folded the clothes and linen
ironed the other clothes
made breakfast, lunch, dinner ('tween times)
Kept the house
tended the garden.....

Yeah

good times


----------



## Teacher Terry (Aug 29, 2022)

I was watching the news and it showed tons of people in their cars at a food bank in Texas. The thing I noticed was lots of SUV’s that looked fairly new. I have lots of empathy being a former social worker but their priorities are definitely mixed up. They should sell their vehicles and buy something for cash.


----------



## win231 (Aug 29, 2022)

Teacher Terry said:


> I was watching the news and it showed tons of people in their cars at a food bank in Texas. The thing I noticed was lots of SUV’s that looked fairly new. I have lots of empathy being a former social worker but their priorities are definitely mixed up. They should sell their vehicles and buy something for cash.


How do you think they're paying for their SUV's?


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 30, 2022)

win231 said:


> How do you think they're paying for their SUV's?


It's seems to be always a Mercedes..
This happens a lot here with Eastern European Beggars.. especially women. I've lost count of the times I;ve seen them beg all day on the street, then get into a Mercedes at the end of their ''shift'' usually they're the drivers... It's just infuriating that they're taking advantage of people's good natures..

There was a report on Tv once about it, and they followed one particular family, where  there was begging and also the husband claiming  benefits for him his wife and 10 kids.. 6 of whom didn't even live in the UK..

They traced him to his house in Romania.. an almost Palatial home which he bragged about had been paid for by UK benefits and begging... and he had no plans to stop..!


----------



## Liberty (Aug 30, 2022)

Remy said:


> Keep mine on 83. Sometimes 82 at night. Glad to see another doing the same. You actually get used to it. I'm lucky I don't get the afternoon sun at least.
> 
> The ceiling fan in the dining area is OK but the clicking noise gets on my nerves so I don't really use it. The one in the bedroom is small and unusable.


Maybe your dining area ceiling fan needs some WD40...lol.  Yes, not only does it save on electricity bills, but think its better for your body also.  We found out that because of living where its more warm throughout much of the year, when it gets chilly in winter we freeze.  We used to keep the house very warm in the winter - found out its better to keep it cooler in winter.  That way when you go outside you aren't so fridgedly cold.  Just put a sweater on in the house, if needed.


----------



## Colleen (Aug 30, 2022)

Hopefully, we're going to save money with heating bills this winter because we're getting 14 new windows replaced today. This house was built in 1969 by a VERY "frugal" man who took shortcuts on every square inch of this house. The old windows were actually windows that he got for nothing and he put them in vertical instead of horizontal. They were meant for a mid-century modern house with the long horizontal windows but he turned them the other way. Haha. It wasn't a cheap thing to replace them but they needed to be done.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 30, 2022)

Colleen said:


> Hopefully, we're going to save money with heating bills this winter because we're getting 14 new windows replaced today. This house was built in 1969 by a VERY "frugal" man who took shortcuts on every square inch of this house. The old windows were actually windows that he got for nothing and he put them in vertical instead of horizontal. They were meant for a mid-century modern house with the long horizontal windows but he turned them the other way. Haha. It wasn't a cheap thing to replace them but they needed to be done.


That's wonderful, @Colleen! Keep us posted on how it works out in the long run.


----------



## JaniceM (Aug 30, 2022)

Teacher Terry said:


> I was watching the news and it showed tons of people in their cars at a food bank in Texas. The thing I noticed was lots of SUV’s that looked fairly new. I have lots of empathy being a former social worker but their priorities are definitely mixed up. They should sell their vehicles and buy something for cash.


It bugs me when people take all the "freebies" they can get when they really don't need them.  The way I see it, it's taking away limited resources from people who really do need the help.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 30, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> Yeah, I know that one
> only we didn't have the mangle
> and it was the '50s
> 
> ...


If that photo is of you, @Gary O,' looks like you were a happy child.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 30, 2022)

Liberty said:


> Wonder how many people even think to ask about the past utility charges of the units they are thinking of
> living in.  Have head complaints about small apartments having such costly electric/gas bills.


That's a good idea, @Liberty! It's good when an apartment includes utilities in the monthly rent, but if it doesn't, it surely is something to ask about!


----------



## Leann (Aug 30, 2022)

Colleen said:


> Hopefully, we're going to save money with heating bills this winter because we're getting 14 new windows replaced today. This house was built in 1969 by a VERY "frugal" man who took shortcuts on every square inch of this house. The old windows were actually windows that he got for nothing and he put them in vertical instead of horizontal. They were meant for a mid-century modern house with the long horizontal windows but he turned them the other way. Haha. It wasn't a cheap thing to replace them but they needed to be done.


@Colleen, we could be neighbors. Sounds like my house, too!


----------



## Leann (Aug 30, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> It bugs me when people take all the "freebies" they can get when they really don't need them.  The way I see it, it's taking away limited resources from people who really do need the help.


My former MIL (who has long since passed so I don't like speaking ill of the dead but I'm making an exception here) was the queen of thrift even though she could afford whatever she needed. In the town in which she lived, there was a food bank that handed out a bag of staples each week to low-income families. The bag usually contained a carton of milk, cheese, bread, peanut butter, grape jelly and some fresh vegetables. Each week my MIL would go and pick up a bag which meant that someone else didn't get one. I never understood why she didn't see how wrong this was.


----------



## C50 (Aug 30, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> I think there were reports of a small Celtic girl with a small rifle on the grassy knoll...


Careful there,  your accusatory words may cause an international incident!  Or another conspiracy theory


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 30, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> If that photo is of you, @Gary O,' looks like you were a happy child.


Yeah
I've had that grin since birth


----------



## Chet (Aug 30, 2022)

My parents were frugal, probably because they went through the depression.  Some of it might have rubbed off me, but mostly I think because I was dead broke after college so I know what it's like. The car I drove then had bad, almost no brakes and a friend knew a mechanic who was a "paper hanger" who would put an inspection sticker on a dead horse.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 30, 2022)

Leann said:


> My former MIL (who has long since passed so I don't like speaking ill of the dead but I'm making an exception here) was the queen of thrift even though she could afford whatever she needed. In the town in which she lived, there was a food bank that handed out a bag of staples each week to low-income families. The bag usually contained a carton of milk, cheese, bread, peanut butter, grape jelly and some fresh vegetables. Each week my MIL would go and pick up a bag which meant that someone else didn't get one. I never understood why she didn't see how wrong this was.


sometimes it's being so mean and tight that makes people so rich...


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 30, 2022)

Chet said:


> My parents were frugal, probably because they went through the depression.  Some of it might have rubbed off me, but mostly I think because I was dead broke after college so I know what it's like. The car I drove then had bad, almost no brakes and a friend knew a mechanic who was a "paper hanger" who would put an inspection sticker on a dead horse.


My parents were extremely frugal simply because one wage or sometimes 2 wages when my mum was able to work just wasn't enough to feed and clothe 6... there was no help in those days.. no child Tax credits, no  benefits of any kind like they get today. In those days child benefit was paid out at a paltry rate for the eldest child and less for the second and third and then nothing for any children after. .. so we had very little in the way of food.. or material things. For example.. in our house the same ornaments were there from the time I was born until my mother died, they wouldn't ever have replaced them, the same curtains, the same everything unless it got broken and had to be replaced, nothing was ever changed just for the sake of it as we do today..

 I don't know if it's the same in the USA but here people even get money to pay for a new pram.. and baby clothes when they have a newborn, and then £22 each week for the eldest child, and £14 per week for every subsequent child until they leave full time education.. Everyone gets this regardless of whether they're employed or not.. .. and then there's all sorts of other benefits to be had, help with the cost of school uniforms, help with the cost of school lunches.. free..this free that..  and even more if  they're unemployed and have never paid into the sytem , which shows in how many more children those who have never worked have..compared to those who are employed

No help for pensioners tho' who have actually paid into the system for 50 years...


----------



## Remy (Aug 30, 2022)

Leann said:


> My former MIL (who has long since passed so I don't like speaking ill of the dead but I'm making an exception here) was the queen of thrift even though she could afford whatever she needed. In the town in which she lived, there was a food bank that handed out a bag of staples each week to low-income families. The bag usually contained a carton of milk, cheese, bread, peanut butter, grape jelly and some fresh vegetables. Each week my MIL would go and pick up a bag which meant that someone else didn't get one. I never understood why she didn't see how wrong this was.


Sadly, some people have a disconnect or an entitlement. Their brains are just different I guess. I've never needed to utilize a food bank. I would if I really needed it, but only then.


----------



## deaver (Aug 30, 2022)

was living and working in an older hotel in oregon when the entire block was sold so that a new courthouse could be built there. The tenants had to be relocated and since it was a federal project money was paid to move them. The amounts of money varied from one to another depending on who screeched the loudest. Some bought rv's to live in, some moved into other hud type hotels. I moved into an older hotel converted into studio appartments.


----------



## Remy (Aug 30, 2022)

That had to be extremely unsettling @deaver What's that called? Eminent Domain? Like when a freeway will go through a neighborhood.


----------



## deaver (Aug 30, 2022)

actually it was very nice because I got 8000 bucks plus unemployment for the better part of a year...should have gone back to work but I had a blast


----------



## Leann (Aug 30, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> sometimes it's being so mean and tight that makes people so rich...


Exactly. The stories I could tell about her (my former MIL) and how conniving she was when it came to money would border on unbelievable but they're all true.


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 30, 2022)

John cycling said:


> *Fracking's environmental effect on clean water.*  <--
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, things like this have happened, and we have learned from them.  This risk is much lower now, we have learned a lot about how to do it safely.  And fracking only represents a very small part of the toxic waters injected into the subsurface, for some reason we are a lot more afraid of fracking than toxic wastewater disposal by subsurface injection, a much more common event with similar problems.

The linked article comes from Greenpeace, hardly a fair and balanced source.  Looks to me like mostly scare tactics to raise money for Greenpeace.  Here is a much better well balanced peer-reviewed piece: _The Environmental Costs and Benefits of Fracking_ - https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev-environ-031113-144051  From the abstract:

_Unconventional oil and natural gas extraction enabled by horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing (fracking) is driving an economic boom, with consequences described from “revolutionary” to “disastrous.” Reality lies somewhere in between. Unconventional energy generates income and, done well, can reduce air pollution and even water use compared with other fossil fuels. Alternatively, it could slow the adoption of renewables and, done poorly, release toxic chemicals into water and air_


----------



## Nosy Bee-54 (Aug 30, 2022)

palides2021 said:


> In an effort to lower my electricity bill, today I raised my thermostat to 76. I usually keep it at 72. As a result, I changed from my usual long-sleeved top to a sleeveless top and made sure the ceiling fans were working. it's been very comfortable all day, even though outside was in the upper 80s.  The other change I did was to wash my clothes with cold water instead of warm or hot water. I have not used a clothes line for drying - yet. Incremental steps will get me there.


I have one setting in the summer regardless of how hot it gets. Thermostat at 79 all day, everyday. To sleep at night, I just turn on the ceiling fan to be more comfortable.


----------



## palides2021 (Aug 30, 2022)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> I have one setting in the summer regardless of how hot it gets. Thermostat at 79 all day, everyday. To sleep at night, I just turn on the ceiling fan to be more comfortable.


My mother lives in Florida and also has the thermostat at 79. I will see about raising the thermostat a little more. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Packerjohn (Aug 30, 2022)

Americans, Canadians and the rest of 'em that are deep in debt are not going to get any sympathy from me.  They are the cause of their own misery and have only themselves to blame.  They were "sockers" for the advertisers and they were too weak to resist so now they have to pay the price.  To bad but as the bible says, "you rip what you sow."


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 30, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> *If you eat meat, eat less* and incorporate it into casseroles or make it the side dish rather than main dish. I hardly ever eat meat anymore.


That's what I experienced in mainland China
No heavy chunks of meat
Just bits here and there in the rice
It was dog.....but still


----------



## squatting dog (Aug 31, 2022)




----------



## JaniceM (Aug 31, 2022)

Packerjohn said:


> Americans, Canadians and the rest of 'em that are deep in debt are not going to get any sympathy from me.  They are the cause of their own misery and have only themselves to blame.  They were "sockers" for the advertisers and they were too weak to resist so now they have to pay the price.  To bad but as the bible says, "you rip what you sow."


That's not always the case.  There can be situations that are beyond a person's control.


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 31, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> That's not always the case.  There can be situations that are beyond a person's control.


Qft.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 31, 2022)

It can sometimes be the little, incidental things unseen, not budgeted

My lady and I have shown each other 'better ways' over the 53 years

Heh
When we first met, she'd apply toothpaste like the commercials would show


Told her she could just put a drop on the brush with the same results

Keeps that tube from costing 5 times as much


----------



## C50 (Aug 31, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> It can sometimes be the little, incidental things unseen, not budgeted
> 
> My lady and I have shown each other 'better ways' over the 53 years
> 
> ...


Your toothpaste example brings up a good point.

Living frugal isn't necessarily about instant savings, it's more of a long term goal.  Skipping that $5 cup of coffee on the way to work could be a month's mortgage or rent, or pay for everyone's Christmas gifts!  260 yearly work days  (260 x $5) =$1,300!  Using less toothpaste?  Pays for new toothbrushes every few months!

It's a dozen things you do every day to save a bit that over the years adds up.  I never think of it as denying myself but as a reward a bit further down the road.


----------



## win231 (Aug 31, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> View attachment 237094


The ammunition protects your can - and also the cans in your pantry.


----------



## StarSong (Aug 31, 2022)

I also stock groceries when they're on sale, often use dried beans instead of canned, make most foods from scratch, batch cook food and freeze, etc.  For instance, I cook 3 cups of rice at a time (yielding 6 cups cooked).  Cool it, then portion it into sandwich bags that I load into a one gallon zip bag and freeze.  When I take some out I put the empty sandwich bag back in the one gallon bag to reuse the next time I make rice.

Another tip - I buy a pound of peeled garlic when it goes on sale (if my supply is low). I mince it in my mini food processor with olive oil. When it's finely minced I put it in a quart freezer bags, press out the air and freeze flat. When I need garlic for a recipe I break off a little piece and carry on. I've always got garlic at the ready.

We don't eat meat, which is a huge savings in and of itself. DH eats some dairy, I eat very little (more during the holidays).

We rarely go to restaurants anymore. Less than once a month. Been there, done that, literally thousands of times each. When working in downtown LA, I went out for lunch virtually every day with co-workers or vendors. Same for him. It was customary in our industry during the 70s and 80s. We'll occasionally meet up with one of our kids or some friends at a restaurant and enjoy a meal together, but otherwise dining out holds little allure.

I never developed the Starbucks or other coffee house habit. When I want coffee out, I deliberately avoid Starbucks because their pretentious "in" language irks me. If I ask for a large black coffee, the precious "barista" (aka coffee pourer) feigns confusion and starts rattling off Starbucks-speak menu items.  Pfffttt... You know what I want.  Please stop pretending that when you learned "Starbucks" you unlearned English. Your company was started in freaking Seattle, for Pete's sake, and you're working a coffee counter. Pour me the big coffee, don't put anything in it, and get over yourself. Tip jar? After that nonsense?  Spare me.
Rant over. Sorry I digressed.

Needless to say, I generally bring my own travel cup of coffee with me when running morning errands. Saves money and aggravation.

During summer we run fans until it's too hot, then turn on the AC.  I can't sleep when it's warmer than 77. During winter, nighttime heat is at 66. DH can't sleep when it's colder than that. We can tolerate slightly hotter and colder temps during the day but aren't willing to be ridiculously uncomfortable. We can afford to turn on the heat and AC and would give up other creature comforts in favor of temperature comfort. Today's forecast high is a beastly 109°.


----------



## DebraMae (Aug 31, 2022)

Remember when the shampoo makers came up with "lather, rinse, repeat"?  There is no need to "repeat".  They effectively doubled their sales by convincing people there was.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 31, 2022)

DebraMae said:


> Remember when the shampoo makers came up with "lather, rinse, repeat"?  There is no need to "repeat".  They effectively doubled their sales by convincing people there was.


I saw through that spiel even as a teen.. I've always only ever washed my hair once, even when it was  extremely long..


----------



## Aunt Bea (Aug 31, 2022)

DebraMae said:


> Remember when the shampoo makers came up with "lather, rinse, repeat"?  There is no need to "repeat".  They effectively doubled their sales by convincing people there was.


It’s much the same with best by dates on many products.

Instead of relying on our common sense we follow the manufacturers recommendation and replace the product.

_“Never ask a barber if you need a haircut.” _- Warren Buffett


----------



## RadishRose (Aug 31, 2022)

If people wouldn't hoard, there would be enough.

I've seen some of these stay at home moms on YouTube with several or many kids, hoarding so badly a few of them have mini-marts in their basements.

The TP hysteria was mostly due to hoarding and over-buying to sell at high prices!


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 31, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> If people wouldn't hoard, there would be enough.
> 
> I've seen some of these stay at home moms on YouTube with several or many kids, hoarding so badly a few of them have mini-marts in their basements.
> 
> The TP hysteria was mostly due to hoarding and over-buying to sell at high prices!


I;ve seen those basements.. like mini-marts... they usually call themselves Preppers ..


----------



## JaniceM (Aug 31, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I;ve seen those basements.. like mini-marts... they usually call themselves Preppers ..


Yes, some people can sure get excessive!!


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 31, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Yes, some people can sure get excessive!!


I buy food in bulk... but not to the extent I've seen those folks..

I just wonder how they can get through 100 pounds of rice.. and 200 pounds of sugar.. and 30 packs of laundry soap.. and 200 cans of peaches..and 50 packs of cakes...


----------



## JaniceM (Aug 31, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I buy food in bulk... but not to the extent I've seen those folks..
> 
> I just wonder how they can get through 100 pounds of rice.. and 200 pounds of sugar.. and 30 packs of laundry soap.. and 200 cans of peaches..and 50 packs of cakes...


I hope they don't buy so much that it ends up spoiling.. that would be awful.


----------



## StarSong (Aug 31, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I saw through that spiel even as a teen.. I've always only ever washed my hair once, even when it was  extremely long..


I used to lather, rinse and repeat as a teen.  My hair was oily and seemed to benefit from the second wash.  Either way, my father was in the business so my shampoo was free.


----------



## Alligatorob (Aug 31, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> If people wouldn't hoard, there would be enough.


Around here hoarding is a religious thing.  The Mormon Church has long advocated storing substantial food.

_The First Presidency recommends that Church members “begin their home storage by storing the basic foods that would be required to keep them alive if they did not have anything else to eat.” After they have a year’s supply of the basics, they may then add other foods they are accustomed to eating regularly._
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...om-sampler/food-storage-for-one-year?lang=eng

I keep a year's supply of Scotch and cigars on hand, in case of emergency.  The bishop would be proud!


----------



## Jules (Aug 31, 2022)

For the second round of hair washing you only need a dab.  For the first about the size of a nickel or quarter, for the second barely the size of a dime.  The second really lathers and it does come out squeaky clean.  I rarely do two washes because it makes it too clean to manage.


----------



## win231 (Aug 31, 2022)

DebraMae said:


> Remember when the shampoo makers came up with "lather, rinse, repeat"?  There is no need to "repeat".  They effectively doubled their sales by convincing people there was.


I've always been surprised people fall for that.
But then again - "Refrigerated meat trucks in hospital parking lots to store Covid victims.............."


----------



## StarSong (Aug 31, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I buy food in bulk... but not to the extent I've seen those folks..
> 
> I just wonder how they can get through 100 pounds of rice.. and 200 pounds of sugar.. and 30 packs of laundry soap.. and 200 cans of peaches..and 50 packs of cakes...


As many here know, I bake a lot during the holidays and buy some dry supplies in bulk, but not the kind of bulk you're describing, Hols.    

I buy 25 lb sacks of bread flour and all purpose flour and store it in galvanized cans, and make sure I've always got at least 20 lbs of sugar on hand.        

Storing huge amounts of bulk dried goods and keeping them properly rotated so they stay fresh can be a challenge.  It's also tough to ensure they remain dry, bug-free and rodent free.    


Alligatorob said:


> Around here hoarding is a religious thing. The Mormon Church has long advocated storing substantial food.
> 
> _The First Presidency recommends that Church members “begin their home storage by storing the basic foods that would be required to keep them alive if they did not have anything else to eat.” After they have a year’s supply of the basics, they may then add other foods they are accustomed to eating regularly._


@Alligatorob, I've seen that list before. DH & I have a far deeper pantry than most, but nowhere near the 800 lbs of grains and 120 lbs of legumes that they recommend for 2 people. (Not to mention 16 lbs of salt, 5 gallons of cooking oil, and 120 lbs of honey.)


----------



## Liberty (Aug 31, 2022)

Gary O' said:


> It can sometimes be the little, incidental things unseen, not budgeted
> 
> My lady and I have shown each other 'better ways' over the 53 years
> 
> ...


True story here...a toothpaste maker ran a contest to get ideas for increasing sales of their toothpaste - entries like "change the color of your toothpaste, make new flavors, etc. poured in. The contest was one by a child in middle school I think, who wrote "just make the hole bigger, then they'll use more!


----------



## Liberty (Aug 31, 2022)

StarSong said:


> As many here know, I bake a lot during the holidays and buy some dry supplies in bulk, but not the kind of bulk you're describing, Hols.
> 
> I buy 25 lb sacks of bread flour and all purpose flour and store it in galvanized cans, and make sure I've always got at least 20 lbs of sugar on hand.
> 
> ...


StarSong...that keeping them "bug free" can be a real challenge.  When we were in the health food manufacturing biz, we used to get dried organic onions and dried regular onions.  The bugs were always in the organic onions and we'd have to ditch the remainder of the batches.  So, we called the supplier - who was in California and ask him what he did to his onions that created so many hatching moth eggs.  We used the onions in shelf stable mixes.

His response was they were organic and they weren't permitted to do anything to keep the bugs from hatching, so they froze their onions (and probably other dried foodstuffs) until they received the shipping orders.  Nice, huh.   Pass the bugs on down the line.

 Don't talk to me about organics...lol.


----------



## squatting dog (Aug 31, 2022)

Imagine the money saved if someone gives up smoking. There was a guy ahead of me in a store and he had 3 cartons of Marlboro smoke's. $183 + tax.


----------



## RadishRose (Aug 31, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Around here hoarding is a religious thing.  The Mormon Church has long advocated storing substantial food.
> 
> _The First Presidency recommends that Church members “begin their home storage by storing the basic foods that would be required to keep them alive if they did not have anything else to eat.” After they have a year’s supply of the basics, they may then add other foods they are accustomed to eating regularly._
> https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...om-sampler/food-storage-for-one-year?lang=eng
> ...


Yep, the YouTube moms I mentioned are largely Mormons; most live in Utah. Just a few are open about their church encouraging stockpiling. At first I got kick out of them, but tired of it.


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 1, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I used to lather, rinse and repeat as a teen.  My hair was oily and seemed to benefit from the second wash.  Either way, my father was in the business so my shampoo was free.


Doing your part to help the water shortage?  

J/K!!!!


----------



## StarSong (Sep 1, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Doing your part to help the water shortage?
> 
> J/K!!!!


I lived in an area of the country that wasn't subject to droughts during my teen years.  

My hair is considerably drier these days so I rarely shampoo. When showering (no more daily showers b/c of the drought) I generally rinse it and add a little conditioner.


----------



## Jules (Sep 1, 2022)

When I consider buying something now, I do the need or want test.  I’ve done this before but am more adamant about it now, not only because of the cost about the use of bringing more items into the house.


----------



## ManjaroKDE (Sep 1, 2022)

Doing most of the things advised such as:

Cutting the cord
Exchanging eggs for red meats
Dining out less
Walking short distances instead of driving
Cancelling all non-used auto-pay subscriptions & payments
Traveling less, calling instead of personal visits
Avoiding bottled water, drink more coffee, buying in bulk
Cancelling smartphone service opting for a simple flipper
(have laptop for all my online activity)
Going paperless, cash based, being a better comparison shopper
Putting credit cards in cold storage, quit chasing rewards
Selling stocks bought safer investments (bonds, CDs)
Not quitting Prime, free shipping is a positive
Reduced my impulse buying.
Adhered to the wait & see if I actually need it
De-cluttering my unused 'stuff'
Paying off my auto loan, not buying new

*Now I need to get a life!*


----------



## C50 (Sep 1, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Imagine the money saved if someone gives up smoking. There was a guy ahead of me in a store and he had 3 cartons of Marlboro smoke's. $183 + tax.


Yep.  Talking to my sister not long ago about smoking, between her and her husband they spend over $400 a month on cigarettes!  And they always cry about not having money, very sad.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 1, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> Yep, the YouTube moms I mentioned are largely Mormons; most live in Utah. Just a few are open about their church encouraging stockpiling. At first I got kick out of them, but tired of it.


Same here.  Early pandemic scares pushed my food security fears into high gear.  I tuned into some of Mormon and prepper websites and YouTube videos, which only exacerbated my fears.  It became uncomfortable to see how hyper-focused most were on increasing their levels of stockpiled food and water.  Plus weaponry to defend their stashes.              

Most seem downright eager for a widespread disaster to hit.  After all, what better validation of their decades of preparation?  So many deep disappointments when Y2K fail to deliver.    

I'm happy to have a deep pantry for emergencies, but rein myself in when I start going too far down that rabbit hole.


----------



## hollydolly (Sep 1, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I lived in an area of the country that wasn't subject to droughts during my teen years.
> 
> My hair is considerably drier these days so I rarely shampoo. When showering (no more daily showers b/c of the drought) I generally rinse it and add a little conditioner.


yes but honey.. we're not all blessed with beautiful hair as you have...


----------



## hollydolly (Sep 1, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Imagine the money saved if someone gives up smoking. There was a guy ahead of me in a store and he had 3 cartons of Marlboro smoke's. $183 + tax.


that's cheap compared to here..Brace yourselves... in the UK... one pack.. that's ONE Pack of 20 cigarettes.. not a Carton... of cigarettes, One Single pack of 20 cigarettes < Malboro Costs £17.49  .. in US dollars = $20.18 cents ...

_This week’s data shows retailers are still squeezing extra profits from their *premium cigarette* ranges, with just two out of the 12 lines examined charged at their most-common price by a majority. 

Marlboro Gold is an attractive proposition, with 78% of retailers charging up to £17.49 for a pack of 20. 

Similarly, 77% of shops are selling Benson & Hedges Silver 20s for as much as £16.49

One line that seems to have found its price limit for now is Camel Blue 20s. Eighty-nine per cent of retailers charge £16.99 for a pack. This is the highest most-common price out of all the lines examined and is just 91p cheaper than the highest price. _


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 1, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Same here.  Early pandemic scares pushed my food security fears into high gear.  I tuned into some of Mormon and prepper websites and YouTube videos, which only exacerbated my fears.  It became uncomfortable to see how hyper-focused most were on increasing their levels of stockpiled food and water.  Plus weaponry to defend their stashes.
> 
> Most seem downright eager for a widespread disaster to hit.  After all, what better validation of their decades of preparation?  So many deep disappointments when Y2K fail to deliver.
> 
> I'm happy to have a deep pantry for emergencies, but rein myself in when I start going too far down that rabbit hole.


I've never seen the Prepper YouTube vids. Maybe I shouldn't.


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 1, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> that's cheap compared to here..Brace yourselves... in the UK... one pack.. that's ONE Pack of 20 cigarettes.. not a Carton... of cigarettes, One Single pack of 20 cigarettes < Malboro Costs £17.49  .. in US dollars = $20.18 cents ...
> 
> _This week’s data shows retailers are still squeezing extra profits from their *premium cigarette* ranges, with just two out of the 12 lines examined charged at their most-common price by a majority.
> 
> ...


Oh my screaming Lord!

Isn't price gouging against the law over there? It (supposedly) is here... if you can get anyone to pay attention.

Used to be the high cost of cigs here was mostly the state tax. I haven't smoked in more than 7 years thank God.


----------



## hollydolly (Sep 1, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> Oh my screaming Lord!
> 
> Isn't price gouging against the law over there? It (supposedly) is here... if you can get anyone to pay attention.
> 
> Used to be the high cost of cigs here was mostly the state tax. I haven't smoked in more than 7 years thank God.


well no.. not really , people can charge whatever they wish for whatever they want to sell.. however  it's the supermarkets who sell the biggest bulk of cigarettes..

The uk..unlike  Spain for example.. can sell Cigarettes from any venue.. whether a supermarket or a corner shop.. a petrol Garage..  or a vending machine... it's not legislated in the same way as Spain and much of Europe, where the vendors of Cigs are specialised Tabac shops only and the govt sets the prices.... no other venue  is permitted to sell cigarettes at all.. but here in the UK, everyone can see them if they wish, but the govt set a minimum price..


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 1, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> well no.. not really , people can charge whatever they wish for whatever they want to sell.. however  it's the supermarkets who sell the biggest bulk of cigarettes..
> 
> The uk..unlike  Spain for example.. can sell Cigarettes from any venues.. whether a supermarket or a corner shop.. a petrol Garage..  or a vending machine... it's not legislated in the same way as Spain and much of Europe, where the vendors of Cigs are specialised Tabac shops only and the govt sets the prices.... no other venue  is permitted to sell cigarettes at all.. but here in the UK, everyone can see them if they wish, but the govt set a minimum price..


Uh, know what? I made a huge mistake... price gouging only applies during a national or state emergency/disaster. Of course otherwise, retailers may charge what they want. Sorry.


----------



## ManjaroKDE (Sep 1, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> I've never seen the Prepper YouTube vids. Maybe I shouldn't.


I was raised 'Mormon' lived the life for over 50 years,  2 flooded basements cured me of storing food.  Made good mulch for my garden though.  The TV reality show 'Preppers' was produced, written and directed by missionary grads from BYU.


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> that's cheap compared to here..Brace yourselves... in the UK... one pack.. that's ONE Pack of 20 cigarettes.. not a Carton... of cigarettes, One Single pack of 20 cigarettes < Malboro Costs £17.49  .. in US dollars = $20.18 cents ...
> 
> _This week’s data shows retailers are still squeezing extra profits from their *premium cigarette* ranges, with just two out of the 12 lines examined charged at their most-common price by a majority.
> 
> ...


Wow, that is high.  Do you know what the taxes per pack are in the UK?

In the US taxes vary from state to state, highest is Puerto Rico at $6.11 ($5.10 to the territory, $1.01 to the feds), lowest Missouri at $1.18 ($0.17 to the state, $1.01 to the feds).   Utah is somewhere in-between at $2.71. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_taxes_in_the_United_States  On average that's about half the cost of the cigarettes.   I the US government makes more profit on cigarettes than retailers or tobacco companies.

I think cigarettes are awful and would do away with them completely if I could.  But there is not a practical way to do that.  However I do not think these high taxes make sense, it leads to a huge black market, and maybe worse a heavy tax on the poor.  According to Wikipedia:

"_lower income smokers (those in households making under $30,000) spent 23.6 percent of their income on cigarettes, compared to two percent by higher income_"

That suggests to me the tax isn't reducing smoking so much as making poor folks poorer...


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> I was raised 'Mormon' lived the life for over 50 years,  2 flooded basements cured me of storing food.  Made good mulch for my garden though.  The TV reality show 'Preppers' was produced, written and directed by missionary grads from BYU.


What fraction of all that stored food do you think ends up getting eaten before it goes bad?  I have always suspected most never gets eaten...

Not a Mormon, but have lived in Utah off and on for a long time.  So I know lots of Mormons, and have seen a few fruit rooms...


----------



## ManjaroKDE (Sep 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> What fraction of all that stored food do you think ends up getting eaten before it goes bad?  I have always suspected most never gets eaten...
> 
> Not a Mormon, but have lived in Utah off and on for a long time.  So I know lots of Mormons, and have seen a few fruit rooms...


I don't know but my mother probably used bulging cans for some of our meals.  Seems I spent a lot of my youth bent over the commode.  Dumping the 200+ bottled peaches was the last straw.


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> Dumping the bottled peaches


Ought to be a law!!  I love peaches, but eat them too quickly for them to go bad.


----------



## hollydolly (Sep 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Wow, that is high.  Do you know what the taxes per pack are in the UK?
> 
> In the US taxes vary from state to state, highest is Puerto Rico at $6.11 ($5.10 to the territory, $1.01 to the feds), lowest Missouri at $1.18 ($0.17 to the state, $1.01 to the feds).   Utah is somewhere in-between at $2.71. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_taxes_in_the_United_States  On average that's about half the cost of the cigarettes.   I the US government makes more profit on cigarettes than retailers or tobacco companies.
> 
> ...


yep 16 % of the retail price plus £5.96 on every pack of 20 cigarettes... goes to the government in Taxes..  Hugely High ..

In Europe cigarettes are about half the price of the UK.. because the taxes are not so high..

Funny thing is.. I can't remember seeing anyone in the last few years smoking cigarettes ..other than those who are supposedly poor, and in fact supposedly so poor they get food given to them at the foodbank ..  ..none of my friends smoke.. and they're not poor.. nor are the necessarily rich.. Even my estranged husband who could feasiblu afford those high prices.. and has been a life long smoker.. has been Vaping for several years now..


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> yep 16 % of the retail price plus £5.96 on every pack of 20 cigarettes... goes to the government in Taxes.. Hugely High ..


Wikipedia says:

_...taxes make up 42.5% of the cost of a pack of cigarettes in the US, compared to 82.2% in the United Kingdom, which has the highest cigarette taxes._

I still have family members who smoke, so I get to see it all too often.  They are not poor...


----------



## Bella (Sep 1, 2022)

Cigarette Price / Tax by State for 2022 

 State Name  Cigarette Excise Tax Per Pack  Total Tax Per Pack  Average Retail Price Per Pack  Alabama$0.68$0.86$5.37 Alaska$2.00$2.00$8.81 Arizona$2.00$2.37$6.92 Arkansas$1.15$1.49$5.49 California$0.87$1.30$5.53 Colorado$0.84$0.99$5.26 Connecticut$3.90$4.43$8.91 Delaware$1.60$1.60$5.50 District of Columbia$2.50$2.91$7.30 Florida$1.34$1.65$5.50 Georgia$0.37$0.59$4.92 Hawaii$3.20$3.55$8.99 Idaho$0.57$0.87$5.23 Illinois$1.98$2.42$7.56 Indiana$1.00$1.36$5.56 Iowa$1.36$1.69$5.83 Kansas$1.29$1.65$5.89 Kentucky$1.10$1.42$5.36 Louisiana$1.08$1.29$5.42 Maine$2.00$2.35$6.62 Maryland$2.00$2.37$6.60 Massachusetts$3.51$4.04$9.08 Michigan$2.00$2.36$6.44 Minnesota$3.00$3.54$8.40 Mississippi$0.68$1.04$5.47 Missouri$0.17$0.36$4.38 Montana$1.70$1.70$6.11 Nebraska$0.64$0.92$5.32 Nevada$1.80$2.21$6.44 New Hampshire$1.78$1.78$5.81 New Jersey$2.70$3.20$7.66 New Mexico$1.66$2.00$6.53 New York$4.35$4.75$10.45 North Carolina$0.45$0.76$4.87 North Dakota$0.44$0.67$4.82 Ohio$1.60$1.97$6.10 Oklahoma$2.03$2.03$6.12 Oregon$1.32$1.32$5.26 Pennsylvania$2.60$3.07$8.27 Rhode Island$3.75$4.33$8.87 South Carolina$0.57$0.86$5.05 South Dakota$1.53$1.76$6.01 Tennessee$0.62$1.02$5.10 Texas$1.41$1.75$5.78 Utah$1.70$2.06$6.43 Vermont$3.08$3.53$8.01 Virginia$0.30$0.54$4.78 Washington$3.03$3.52$8.05 West Virginia$1.20$1.51$5.53 Wisconsin$2.52$2.89$7.67 Wyoming$0.60$0.79$5.04 

Bella


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

Bella said:


> Cigarette Price / Tax by State for 2022


Good table, but does it include the federal tax of $1.01 per pack?

Pretty much agrees with the Wikipedia table I saw on the state taxes, but seems to include sales tax that I had not thought of.


----------



## Bella (Sep 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> *Good table, but does it include the federal tax of $1.01 per pack?
> 
> Pretty much agrees with the Wikipedia table I saw on the state taxes, but seems to include sales tax that I had not thought of.*


I'm not sure but I think they combined the federal and excise tax.

I found this article from 2009 and it looks like that's what they did. > https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5819a2.htm


----------



## StarSong (Sep 1, 2022)

Bella said:


> Cigarette Price / Tax by State for 2022​​
> State NameCigarette Excise Tax Per PackTotal Tax Per PackAverage Retail Price Per PackAlabama$0.68$0.86$5.37Alaska$2.00$2.00$8.81Arizona$2.00$2.37$6.92Arkansas$1.15$1.49$5.49California$0.87$1.30$5.53Colorado$0.84$0.99$5.26Connecticut$3.90$4.43$8.91Delaware$1.60$1.60$5.50District of Columbia$2.50$2.91$7.30Florida$1.34$1.65$5.50Georgia$0.37$0.59$4.92Hawaii$3.20$3.55$8.99Idaho$0.57$0.87$5.23Illinois$1.98$2.42$7.56Indiana$1.00$1.36$5.56Iowa$1.36$1.69$5.83Kansas$1.29$1.65$5.89Kentucky$1.10$1.42$5.36Louisiana$1.08$1.29$5.42Maine$2.00$2.35$6.62Maryland$2.00$2.37$6.60Massachusetts$3.51$4.04$9.08Michigan$2.00$2.36$6.44Minnesota$3.00$3.54$8.40Mississippi$0.68$1.04$5.47Missouri$0.17$0.36$4.38Montana$1.70$1.70$6.11Nebraska$0.64$0.92$5.32Nevada$1.80$2.21$6.44New Hampshire$1.78$1.78$5.81New Jersey$2.70$3.20$7.66New Mexico$1.66$2.00$6.53New York$4.35$4.75$10.45North Carolina$0.45$0.76$4.87North Dakota$0.44$0.67$4.82Ohio$1.60$1.97$6.10Oklahoma$2.03$2.03$6.12Oregon$1.32$1.32$5.26Pennsylvania$2.60$3.07$8.27Rhode Island$3.75$4.33$8.87South Carolina$0.57$0.86$5.05South Dakota$1.53$1.76$6.01Tennessee$0.62$1.02$5.10Texas$1.41$1.75$5.78Utah$1.70$2.06$6.43Vermont$3.08$3.53$8.01Virginia$0.30$0.54$4.78Washington$3.03$3.52$8.05West Virginia$1.20$1.51$5.53Wisconsin$2.52$2.89$7.67Wyoming$0.60$0.79$5.04
> 
> Bella


Cigarettes are a lot more than $5.53 in California.  Close to $10 a pack in most places. 

I'm not sure where the above information came from, but I just double checked California's excise tax on cigarettes. It's $2.87 per pack, not 87¢ per pack. Federal excise taxes add another $1.01 per pack. Then there's state and local sales tax, which ranges from a low of 7.25% in some counties to 10.75% in others. (It's 9.5% in the City of Los Angeles).

It's been decades since cigarettes cost $5.53 in California. I haven't smoked since the early 80s, but it's hard to miss the price of a pack of cigarettes when the person in front of you at a convenience store buys a pack.

https://cdtfa.ca.gov/industry/cigarette-and-tobacco-products.htm
https://igentax.com/cigarette-tax-state/#___Federal_tobacco__cigarette_taxes__


----------



## deaver (Sep 1, 2022)

roll your own


----------



## hollydolly (Sep 1, 2022)

StarSong said:


> Cigarettes are a lot more than $5.53 in California.  Close to $10 a pack in most places.
> 
> I'm not sure where the above information came from, but I just double checked California's excise tax on cigarettes. It's $2.87 per pack, not 87¢ per pack. Federal excise taxes add another $1.01 per pack. Then there's state and local sales tax, which ranges from a low of 7.25% in some counties to 10.75% in others. (It's 9.5% in the City of Los Angeles).
> 
> ...


$2.97 per pack ????...OMG.. that's like 10 % of the cost of a pack here.. don't let the smokers know, they'll all be emigrating..


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I'm not sure where the above information came from


It is hard to run down accurate numbers, things keep changing.  Going up mostly...


----------



## StarSong (Sep 1, 2022)

Bella said:


> I'm not sure but I think they combined the federal and excise tax.
> 
> I found this article from 20009 and it looks like that's what they did. > https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5819a2.htm


*Taxes on cigarettes have gone up dramatically in many cases since 2009.*  That's very old information.  One of the problems with the internet is that old info remains as easy to access as more current info.  (I use "search within the last year" as parameters for something like this.) 


hollydolly said:


> $2.97 per pack ????...OMG.. that's like 10 % of the cost of a pack here.. don't let the smokers know they'll all be emigrating..


$2.87 is only one of the taxes that are on cigarettes sold in California.  As I said in my post, cigarettes in this state are roughly $10 per pack.


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

This is supposed to be 2022 data https://balancingeverything.com/cigarette-prices-by-state/:


----------



## StarSong (Sep 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> It is hard to run down accurate numbers, things keep changing.  Going up mostly...


Direct sources give the most accurate information if one also takes care to look for the most current data.


----------



## Bella (Sep 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Good table, but* does it include the federal tax *of $1.01 per pack?
> 
> Pretty much agrees with the Wikipedia table I saw on the state taxes, but seems to include sales tax that I had not thought of.





StarSong said:


> Cigarettes are a lot more than $5.53 in California.  Close to $10 a pack in most places.
> 
> *I'm not sure where the above information came from*, but I just double checked California's excise tax on cigarettes. It's $2.87 per pack, not 87¢ per pack. Federal excise taxes add another $1.01 per pack. Then there's state and local sales tax, which ranges from a low of 7.25% in some counties to 10.75% in others. (It's 9.5% in the City of Los Angeles).
> 
> ...


@StarSong - Rob's question was not about *how much tax *on cigarettes in 2022. He asked,* "does it include the federal tax?"*


Bella said:


> I'm not sure but I think they combined the federal and excise tax.
> 
> *I found this article from 2009 and it looks like that's what they did. *> https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5819a2.htm


The article I sited above is clearly from the CDC, and it states that in 2009 the government *"combined federal and average state excise taxes for cigarettes."* That was the answer to his question. Again, we weren't discussing the amount of tax or the price of a pack of cigarettes in 2022.

*From the CDC *- " On April 1, 2009, the largest federal cigarette excise tax increase in history went into effect, bringing the *combined federal and average state excise tax* for cigarettes to $2.21 per pack and achieving the _Healthy People 2010_ (HP2010) objective (27-21a) to increase the combined federal and average state cigarette excise tax to at least $2 per pack (_1_).  This report summarizes changes in the federal excise tax, as well as state excise taxes for all 50 states and the District of Columbia (DC) from December 31, 1995 to April 1, 2009.* "

I hope that clears it up for you. 

Bella


----------



## StarSong (Sep 1, 2022)

@Bella
Sorry.  I didn't realize you were intentionally discussing taxes that were 13 years old, especially because the heading on your post stated
Cigarette Price / Tax by State for 2022​
Carry on.


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> This is supposed to be 2022 data https://balancingeverything.com/cigarette-prices-by-state/:
> View attachment 237293


no, it states 2021.



https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/cigarette-prices-by-state
The states with the highest cigarette prices are:



New York ($11.96)
Rhode Island ($11.71)*
Connecticut ($11.60)
Massachusetts ($11.11)
Minnesota ($10.49)
Alaska ($10.46)
Hawaii ($10.41)
Maryland ($10.26)
Illinois ($10.60)
Washington ($10.14)

_*Were the District of Columbia included in this metric, it would have the nation’s second-most expensive pack price at $11.75._

Click on link for other states.


----------



## Bella (Sep 1, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Good table, but *does it include the federal tax* of $1.01 per pack?
> 
> Pretty much agrees with the Wikipedia table I saw on the state taxes, but seems to include sales tax that I had not thought of.





Bella said:


> I'm not sure but I think* they combined the federal and excise tax.
> 
> I found this article from 2009 and it looks like that's what they did. > https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5819a2.htm*





StarSong said:


> @Bella
> Sorry. * I didn't realize you were intentionally discussing taxes that were 13 years old, especially because the heading on your post stated*
> Cigarette Price / Tax by State for 2022​
> Carry on.


@StarSong - No, we were _not_ "intentionally discussing taxes that were 13 years old". That is _not the heading we are talking about_.

What we were discussing was* if the excise tax also included the federal tax. *Once again *THIS* in this article from the CDC* that clearly states that in 2009 the government "combined federal and average state excise tax"* for cigarettes. *> https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5819a2.htm <  *_That_ is what we were discussing.

I give up. 

Bella


----------



## ManjaroKDE (Sep 1, 2022)

Eldest daughter is also a jack-mormon like myself.  For years now she has rolled her own (has a cookie sheet with her tools) purchases bagged tobacco along with filtered paper tubes.  While she watches TV she busies herself making packs of customed rolled cigs.  She says she pays about 2 dollars a pack.  Not taxed, nor stamped.  I'd just as soon see her quit but knowing how hard it was for me, do cut her a little slack.  Maybe that's her way of getting her year's supply.


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 1, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> no, it states 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Quite a few years ago, the then-governor decided to have the cigarette price increased, presumably because he wanted his wife to quit smoking- although I'm sure it didn't work that way.  Some smokers in this area started driving to Missouri each month to stock up..  if map is accurate, around 150 miles.  

Recently, I vaguely noticed big-brands such as Marlboro and Newport are $7.99+ per pack, and I don't think that includes tax. Generics, the last I knew, were $5-$6. per pack.  
Frankly, I think it's kinda dopey to buy the name brands, but for many people it's a status-symbol.
I'm trying to quit, but I smoke Phillies; depending on the store I go to, they're between $1.60-$2. per pack, and that includes tax.


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 1, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Quite a few years ago, the then-governor decided to have the cigarette price increased, presumably because he wanted his wife to quit smoking- although I'm sure it didn't work that way.  Some smokers in this area started driving to Missouri each month to stock up..  if map is accurate, around 150 miles.
> 
> Recently, I vaguely noticed big-brands such as Marlboro and Newport are $7.99+ per pack, and I don't think that includes tax. Generics, the last I knew, were $5-$6. per pack.
> Frankly, I think it's kinda dopey to buy the name brands, but for many people it's a status-symbol.
> I'm trying to quit, but I smoke Phillies; depending on the store I go to, they're between $1.60-$2. per pack, and that includes tax.


Where do you live?
$1.60-$2. per pack, and that includes tax.  Does not seem possible.
Are you Native American buying form a Native outlet? Even so, who pays 2.00 for a pack of cigarettes in the US?


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 1, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> Where do you live?
> $1.60-$2. per pack, and that includes tax.  Does not seem possible.
> Are you Native American buying form a Native outlet? Even so, who pays 2.00 for a pack of cigarettes in the US?


Phillies are more like mini-cigars.  They're sold in some grocery stores, as well as tobacco/liquor stores.  
I'm currently in Iowa.


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 1, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> Phillies are more like mini-cigars.  They're sold in some grocery stores, as well as tobacco/liquor stores.
> I'm currently in Iowa.


Thanks Janice. We used to call the cig brand Philip Morris, "Phillies", so I didn't know. How many are in a pack?


----------



## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> who pays 2.00 for a pack of cigarettes in the US?


Not me, only I ever bought anywhere was in Mexico, in the 70s, 10 cents.  Got it as a gag gift, not to smoke...


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 2, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> Thanks Janice. We used to call the cig brand Philip Morris, "Phillies", so I didn't know. How many are in a pack?


Phillies are more like cigarettes than regular cigars..  same size, same 20 per pack, and in my opinion don't taste much different.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 2, 2022)

@hollydolly and others in the UK, I've been reading an increasing number of horrifying articles about the likely "heat or eat" coming to Great Britain.   Do you think your politicians will get off their duffs and manage this potential catastrophe before it strikes, or will it take news stories of people freezing/starving to death to motivate them?


----------



## MickaC (Sep 2, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> If people wouldn't hoard, there would be enough.
> 
> I've seen some of these stay at home moms on YouTube with several or many kids, hoarding so badly a few of them have mini-marts in their basements.
> 
> The TP hysteria was mostly due to hoarding and over-buying to sell at high prices!


I’m not sure I would call it hoarding…..these programs I see……called extreme couponers……they collect coupons majorly and pay very little for there purchase, if anything at all.
Don’t see anything wrong with that.


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 2, 2022)

MickaC said:


> I’m not sure I would call it hoarding…..these programs I see……called extreme couponers……they collect coupons majorly and pay very little for there purchase, if anything at all.
> Don’t see anything wrong with that.


The couponers are not who I was referring to.


----------



## MickaC (Sep 2, 2022)

RadishRose said:


> The couponers are not who I was referring to.


Sorry.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 2, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> _“Never ask a barber if you need a haircut.” _- Warren Buffett


That's a riot, Aunt Bea.  Leave it to Warren Buffett - a practical man if ever there was one.


RadishRose said:


> The couponers are not who I was referring to.


I remember what you're referring to.  During Spring 2020, a number of people were discovered - and outed by investigative news reporters - to have bought loads of TP, paper towels, hand sanitizer, isopropyl alcohol and sanitizing wipes.  They had garages and storage lockers full of these and intended to sell them at an extreme profit to desperate people.


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 2, 2022)

StarSong said:


> That's a riot, Aunt Bea.  Leave it to Warren Buffett - a practical man if ever there was one.
> 
> I remember what you're referring to.  During Spring 2020, a number of people were discovered - and outed by investigative news reporters - to have bought loads of TP, paper towels, hand sanitizer, isopropyl alcohol and sanitizing wipes.  They had garages and storage lockers full of these and intended to sell them at an extreme profit to desperate people.


I remember when there were extreme shortages due to covid listings on ebay from people selling TP at outrageous prices.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 2, 2022)

MickaC said:


> I’m not sure I would call it hoarding…..these programs I see……called extreme couponers……they collect coupons majorly and pay very little for there purchase, if anything at all.
> Don’t see anything wrong with that.


I used coupons a lot in the 80s & 90s.  Many stores also doubled coupons in those days, and Sunday newspapers included big coupon sections.   Having three children in diapers at the same time, I timed purchases so they were on sale and it was a double coupon day,  My MIL, mom, Mom's neighbors and my neighbors used to clip diaper coupons for me.       

I stopped couponing a long time ago because the quality of store brands improved and were cheaper than name brands, even when coupons were factored in. Also, coupons increasingly targeted highly processed foods.

Do people even use coupons anymore?


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 2, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I used coupons a lot in the 80s & 90s.  Many stores also doubled coupons in those days, and Sunday newspapers included big coupon sections.   Having three children in diapers at the same time, I timed purchases so they were on sale and it was a double coupon day,  My mom, her neighbors and my neighbors used to clip diaper coupons for me.
> 
> I stopped couponing a long time ago because the quality of store brands improved and were cheaper than name brands, even when coupons were factored in. Also, coupons increasingly targeted highly processed foods.
> 
> Do people even use coupons anymore?


I always used coupons when I bought newspapers, but it became pointless when they started to be on the www. and needed to be printed out..  ink is expensive!
I still receive cigarette coupons in the mail occasionally.. although I no longer smoke them.  I used to pass them on to a neighbor, but locals won't use coupons.  A few years ago I even knew a homeless guy with no income who said 'We can't use coupons, people will think we're poor!'


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 2, 2022)

Oh, and another homeless guy who said 'I always smoke Marlboro Reds- because I'm not a bum!'


----------



## C50 (Sep 2, 2022)

Sometimes I think being frugal becomes so ingrained in our thinking we do things unconsciously.

For instance....today is trash day, in preparation last night I took my kitchen trash out to the garage.  What I do is dump the kitchen garbage bag into the larger trash bag in the garage, then reuse the kitchen bag.  I thought about it and realized I have been doing this for years.  Obviously if it's nasty I toss the bag but mostly my kitchen garbage is dry trash, so I keep reusing the bag over and over.  I probably save enough every year for a tank of gas but that's good enough reason for me.

Then for the bathroom garbage I reuse bags from stores and toss them every week.  But I think everyone uses store bags in their bathrooms,  right?


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 2, 2022)

C50 said:


> Sometimes I think being frugal becomes so ingrained in our thinking we do things unconsciously.
> 
> For instance....today is trash day, in preparation last night I took my kitchen trash out to the garage.  What I do is dump the kitchen garbage bag into the larger trash bag in the garage, then reuse the kitchen bag.  I thought about it and realized I have been doing this for years.  Obviously if it's nasty I toss the bag but mostly my kitchen garbage is dry trash, so I keep reusing the bag over and over.
> 
> Then for the bathroom garbage I reuse bags from stores and toss them every week.  But I think everyone uses store bags in their bathrooms,  right?


Yes, I use the store bags.. and for regular garbage too.  I can't see buying boxes of 'trash bags'- paying for something that its only purpose is to throw it away!!   LOL


----------



## StarSong (Sep 2, 2022)

C50 said:


> Sometimes I think being frugal becomes so ingrained in our thinking we do things unconsciously.
> 
> For instance....today is trash day, in preparation last night I took my kitchen trash out to the garage.  What I do is dump the kitchen garbage bag into the larger trash bag in the garage, then reuse the kitchen bag.  I thought about it and realized I have been doing this for years.  Obviously if it's nasty I toss the bag but mostly my kitchen garbage is dry trash, so I keep reusing the bag over and over.  I probably save enough every year for a tank of gas but that's good enough reason for me.
> 
> Then for the bathroom garbage I reuse bags from stores and toss them every week.  But I think everyone uses store bags in their bathrooms,  right?


I don't bother with trash bags at all.  Just empty the cans into the outside garbage cans.  Wet food trash like produce peels and egg shells go into a small plastic bowl near the sink before being dumped into the lawn waste garbage can.  We don't eat meat so no meat trash to deal with.   

Everything else is dry trash. I wash out kitchen and bathroom trash cans a couple of times a month, as needed. 

For dog poop cleanup I use those thin plastic produce bags. They work just fine.


----------



## Remy (Sep 2, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I don't bother with trash bags at all.  Just empty the cans into the outside garbage cans.  Wet food trash like produce peels and egg shells go into a small plastic bowl near the sink before being dumped into the lawn waste garbage can.  We don't eat meat so no meat trash to deal with.
> 
> Everything else is dry trash. I wash out kitchen and bathroom trash cans a couple of times a month, as needed.
> 
> For dog poop cleanup I use those thin plastic produce bags. They work just fine.


I don't use trash bags either. I can use empty bread bags and other food bags for trash bags. I re-use plastic produce bags at the grocery store (stick with WINCO bags at WINCO etc so they don't know) and if they can't be used again for shopping, it's a trash bag. I also use used food plastic bags for cleaning out the litter box. I DO have a back up package of small garbage bags but those get used mostly for paper I've shredded etc.


----------



## Remy (Sep 2, 2022)

I've been trying to hit the Grocery Outlet Bargain Market more lately. If I'm in the area, stop in. You never know what they will have. I've bought things I've liked there before but then you never see the item again.

They had Cascadian Farms cereal for $1.99. I also got a quart of coconut milk for $1.49. Two bags of individually packaged popcorn for $0.99 each. They are ready to expire. Fine, they'll keep and I can take them to work. Also soup and veggie sausage patties. 

AND the outside bag for the smaller popcorn bags = garbage bags.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 2, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> yes but honey.. we're not all blessed with beautiful hair as you have...


My hair wouldn't hold a candle to your beautiful golden locks, Holly.


----------



## Blessed (Sep 2, 2022)

I also use the bags from the grocery for liners in my small trash cans.  I use my big dog food bags when I clean out the fridge.  I put stuff in the small grocery bags, then hat goes into to the large dog food bags that are lined and do not leak.


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 2, 2022)

MickaC said:


> Sorry.


Aww @MickaC , sometimes I don't sound right.  No "sorry" needed.


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 2, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I used coupons a lot in the 80s & 90s.  Many stores also doubled coupons in those days, and Sunday newspapers included big coupon sections.   Having three children in diapers at the same time, I timed purchases so they were on sale and it was a double coupon day,  My MIL, mom, Mom's neighbors and my neighbors used to clip diaper coupons for me.
> 
> I stopped couponing a long time ago because the quality of store brands improved and were cheaper than name brands, even when coupons were factored in. Also, coupons increasingly targeted highly processed foods.
> 
> Do people even use coupons anymore?


Not me. They're largely for junk and non food items. Or I have to buy 2 or even 3! Not worth it, I rarely want what a coupon is for.


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 2, 2022)

Blessed said:


> I also use the bags from the grocery for liners in my small trash cans.  I use my big dog food bags when I clean out the fridge.  I put stuff in the small grocery bags, then hat goes into to the large dog food bags that are lined and do not leak.


We don't get bags from stores anymore, thank goodness, to cut down on plastics. Bring your own. They will sell you paper grocery bags for pennies, if you want them.

Our local ShopRite sold *heavy duty* plastics for 12 cents apiece. I bought a bunch about a year ago and they're still going strong!


----------



## Liberty (Sep 2, 2022)

Kroger sends out a monthly "best customer coupon booklet"...this is full of only products you have purchased previously and offer good discounts on them.  Additionally, they have weekly "digital" online coupon specials you can click on for products - also offers double fuel point discounts sometimes.

Actually hard to believe but we are spending less money each month on groceries now than we used to.
Don't ask me why, just not shopping as much and our pantry is full so must have stocked up on a lot of shelf stable products.


----------



## Blessed (Sep 2, 2022)

Liberty said:


> Kroger sends out a monthly "best customer coupon booklet"...this is full of only products you have purchased previously and offer good discounts on them.  Additionally, they have weekly "digital" online coupon specials you can click on for products - also offers double fuel point discounts sometimes.
> 
> Actually hard to believe but we are spending less money each month on groceries now than we used to.
> Don't ask me why, just not shopping as much and our pantry is full so must have stocked up on a lot of shelf stable products.


I don't get a monthly mailing from them but I do use there digital coupons and they have a lot of great loss leaders. They keep my pantry stocked with their good sales.


----------



## StarSong (Sep 3, 2022)

Big grocery chains like Kroger/Ralphs don't serve my needs so well anymore.  In order, my grocery sources are Super King (a local chain that specializes in produce and international foods), Aldi, Costco, Trader Joe's and Smart & Final.  I generally hit the first two weekly and the others every three weeks or so.

I should add that Super King, Aldi and Costco are within a mile of each other (so about five miles from me). Trader Joe's and S & F are less than two miles from me and are en route to the other stores.


----------



## palides2021 (Sep 3, 2022)

StarSong said:


> I also stock groceries when they're on sale, often use dried beans instead of canned, make most foods from scratch, batch cook food and freeze, etc.  For instance, I cook 3 cups of rice at a time (yielding 6 cups cooked).  Cool it, then portion it into sandwich bags that I load into a one gallon zip bag and freeze.  When I take some out I put the empty sandwich bag back in the one gallon bag to reuse the next time I make rice.
> 
> Another tip - I buy a pound of peeled garlic when it goes on sale (if my supply is low). I mince it in my mini food processor with olive oil. When it's finely minced I put it in a quart freezer bags, press out the air and freeze flat. When I need garlic for a recipe I break off a little piece and carry on. I've always got garlic at the ready.
> 
> ...


Great tips, @StarSong! I particularly liked the freezing of rice, and freezing the garlic! I also never took to the Starbucks coffee. I found it hilarious the way you described it! 

Regarding the temperature, I recently switched to 77 and am sitting here writing with that temperature and feeling comfortable. My goal is to save money on the electric bills. I will also see about the temperature in the winter, although I have been known to catch a cold if it's too cold.


----------



## palides2021 (Sep 3, 2022)

C50 said:


> Your toothpaste example brings up a good point.
> 
> Living frugal isn't necessarily about instant savings, it's more of a long term goal.  Skipping that $5 cup of coffee on the way to work could be a month's mortgage or rent, or pay for everyone's Christmas gifts!  260 yearly work days  (260 x $5) =$1,300!  Using less toothpaste?  Pays for new toothbrushes every few months!
> 
> It's a dozen things you do every day to save a bit that over the years adds up.  I never think of it as denying myself but as a reward a bit further down the road.


This is so true, @C50 ! It is a long term goal!


----------



## palides2021 (Sep 3, 2022)

DebraMae said:


> Remember when the shampoo makers came up with "lather, rinse, repeat"?  There is no need to "repeat".  They effectively doubled their sales by convincing people there was.


I always shampooed twice, but decided lately to shampoo once. So far, so good.


----------



## palides2021 (Sep 3, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> I;ve seen those basements.. like mini-marts... they usually call themselves Preppers ..


We did that once for the 2000 fiasco. Never did it again. We gave half of it away at the local food bank. I think fear breeds all kinds of havoc in people's lives.


----------



## palides2021 (Sep 3, 2022)

Jules said:


> When I consider buying something now, I do the need or want test.  I’ve done this before but am more adamant about it now, not only because of the cost about the use of bringing more items into the house.


This is a great way to shop! Thanks for the reminder!


----------



## palides2021 (Sep 3, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> Doing most of the things advised such as:
> 
> Cutting the cord
> Exchanging eggs for red meats
> ...


Great tips, @ManjaroKDE! I have done most of these things on your list. The thing about Amazon Prime for me is that knowing that shipment is free and it comes to my doorstep, the urge to shop there is high. The other day I sat down and wrote down the prices of the orders on my Amazon account and saw how little I spent when I didn't have Amazon Prime and how much it shot up after I got Prime. Haven't figured out if I want to keep Prime or not. Still have a few months until it expires to decide.

I also am decluttering lately. Discovered some coins tucked away in my pantry in the process. Been sitting there for ages, but had been forgotten. You never know what you'll find when decluttering!


----------



## Knight (Sep 3, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Imagine the money saved if someone gives up smoking. There was a guy ahead of me in a store and he had 3 cartons of Marlboro smoke's. $183 + tax.


While in the Navy I gave up smoking when a carton of Marlboros went from 80 cents a carton to $1.20. We had our newborn son to feed & that $1.20 bought 15 bottles of baby food.

As for frugal nothing has changed for us. Watch for sales & store whatever for future meals. Eating out not often but never did eat out often. And for sure never in fast food places.

When the price of gas skyrocketed  I quit putting the last bit of toothpaste under a board to run over it with my car to squeeze out the last little bit. It cost more to do that than it is worth.


----------



## palides2021 (Sep 3, 2022)

MickaC said:


> I’m not sure I would call it hoarding…..these programs I see……called extreme couponers……they collect coupons majorly and pay very little for there purchase, if anything at all.
> Don’t see anything wrong with that.


Thanks for your thoughts, @MickaC. When we filled our pantry back in 1999 (for the Y2K), I used to think of it as buying insurance. You have it when you need it. But then, after Y2K failed to materialize, most of it went to food banks or charitable organizations before their expiration dates because I realized I didn't like canned beans and other canned goods as much as I thought I did. Peanut butter, rice, pasta, I kept and used for a long time. I still have olive oil from several years ago (5-6). I stored it in plastic containers that were dark and that preserved it.


----------



## palides2021 (Sep 3, 2022)

C50 said:


> Sometimes I think being frugal becomes so ingrained in our thinking we do things unconsciously.
> 
> For instance....today is trash day, in preparation last night I took my kitchen trash out to the garage.  What I do is dump the kitchen garbage bag into the larger trash bag in the garage, then reuse the kitchen bag.  I thought about it and realized I have been doing this for years.  Obviously if it's nasty I toss the bag but mostly my kitchen garbage is dry trash, so I keep reusing the bag over and over.  I probably save enough every year for a tank of gas but that's good enough reason for me.
> 
> Then for the bathroom garbage I reuse bags from stores and toss them every week.  But I think everyone uses store bags in their bathrooms,  right?


I also reuse my grocery bags as trash bags for the bathrooms. I also use them to throw my vegetable and fruit scraps in before placing in the kitchen trash so it doesn't smell. I rarely place them in the disposal because it has a tendency to get stuck and costs more to fix down the road.


----------



## palides2021 (Sep 3, 2022)

Remy said:


> I've been trying to hit the Grocery Outlet Bargain Market more lately. If I'm in the area, stop in. You never know what they will have. I've bought things I've liked there before but then you never see the item again.
> 
> They had Cascadian Farms cereal for $1.99. I also got a quart of coconut milk for $1.49. Two bags of individually packaged popcorn for $0.99 each. They are ready to expire. Fine, they'll keep and I can take them to work. Also soup and veggie sausage patties.
> 
> AND the outside bag for the smaller popcorn bags = garbage bags.


@Remy, I noticed there is a Grocery Outlet in my area. I will check it out.


----------



## ManjaroKDE (Sep 3, 2022)

I try to switch auto insurance every 2 years to avoid the rate creep all insurance companies work on. I also always pay semi annual, most insurances companies will charge you as much as a $3 per month fee for paying monthly.  That's $36 annually.  If your semi-annual payment is $260, then you will be paying an extra 7%.  $520 X .07 = $36.40.  Or $556,40 annually.  It's not the $100 payments that hurt, it's the $10 ones that will eat your lunch.

I just lowered my wireless data plan to 1GB.  My wife uses it for pics we haven't gone over that in 3 years, really never.  My rate dropped down $4.36 & still get unlimited talk & text.  Saved another $52.32 annually.  That's an $88 savings next year.  Watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.  My phone is powered off & stored away along with bluetooth turned off & I use my DSL modem for wifi service rather than the provider's.  Both have smartphones but mine is not in use, except for emergencies.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Sep 3, 2022)

C50 said:


> Your toothpaste example brings up a good point.
> 
> Living frugal isn't necessarily about instant savings, it's more of a long term goal.  Skipping that $5 cup of coffee on the way to work could be a month's mortgage or rent, or pay for everyone's Christmas gifts!  260 yearly work days  (260 x $5) =$1,300!  Using less toothpaste?  Pays for new toothbrushes every few months!
> 
> It's a dozen things you do every day to save a bit that over the years adds up.  I never think of it as denying myself but as a reward a bit further down the road.


Exactly! Excellent points. I've been "preaching" you and @Gary O' s philosophy for decades. Some of the young-uns got it, some didn't but are coming around. I had a supervisor who said if a person threw a quarter in a jar (or maybe just a dime) every time he/she turned the T.V. on, by the time they needed a new one, there'd be enough change to pay for it.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Sep 3, 2022)

Besides the methods I mentioned previously, I've decided that I will cut back on the amount I buy or portions I eat of foods that have big price hikes. Eg; I buy the mini lemon pies. They used to be 59 cents..they briefly went up to $1.49 and by the next week were back down to 89 cents. I used to buy two...now I will only buy one. It's like I'm saving 89 cents over what I would spend if I was still buying two.

Fish sticks have jumped around in price. Sometimes they're $4.99 for 44 sticks, then $6.99 and back down. The other day they were $6.99 again but I don't need them yet. The serving size is 5 pieces. I never have eaten 5 at one sitting. I usually eat 4 but now I will cut it down to 3 per serving. It's time for me to get back on the weight loss trail anyway. I've found that I literally eat almost twice as much when I watch T.V. or read something on my tablet while I'm eating. By eliminating those distractions, I will automatically eat less.


----------



## JaniceM (Sep 4, 2022)

This isn't related to inflation/economy, as I always have these kinds of results in general.. the utility company sends out "home energy reports" a few times per year, and the one I received the day before yesterday says my energy use in June-July was 52% lower than efficient homes...

The "units" represent a combination of electricity and gas...  mine was 306 units, efficient homes were 644 units, and similar homes were 1,170 units!  
I'm guessing the difference is because most/many people around here run t.v.'s and AC's nearly 24/7, plus their microwaves.  I only watch t.v. a few hours at night, rarely use AC, unplug power bar and converter box when not in use.


----------



## ManjaroKDE (Sep 6, 2022)

ManjaroKDE said:


> I try to switch auto insurance every 2 years to avoid the rate creep all insurance companies work on. I also always pay semi annual, most insurances companies will charge you as much as a $3 per month fee for paying monthly.  That's $36 annually.  If your semi-annual payment is $260, then you will be paying an extra 7%.  $520 X .07 = $36.40.  Or $556,40 annually.  It's not the $100 payments that hurt, it's the $10 ones that will eat your lunch.
> 
> I just lowered my wireless data plan to 1GB.  My wife uses it for pics we haven't gone over that in 3 years, really never.  My rate dropped down $4.36 & still get unlimited talk & text.  Saved another $52.32 annually.  That's an $88 savings next year.  Watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.  My phone is powered off & stored away along with bluetooth turned off & I use my DSL modem for wifi service rather than the provider's.  Both have smartphones but mine is not in use, except for emergencies.



Just today I got an email from Hulu - PRICE RAISE!!! - My monthly AD free rate was going from $12.99 to $14.99.  Thinking back I remember that the movie selection on Hulu was lame (for lack of a better word).  Decided that a 15% raise was unnecessary, for the content they offer.  Cancelled the offer and my subscription saving myself an additional $15 per month = $180.00 annually.  Thank you Hulu for the motivation.

Discovered that many of the same shows I've been watching on the PBS Masterpiece subscription through Amazon Prime are also on the free PBS subscription.  I was paying $5.99 for that, so cancelled and went with the free one.  Saved $5.99 = <$72.00 annually.


----------

