# 2020 Football (American, that is)



## Lethe200

Please DO NOT post about other sports. U.S. College and NFL football only, to keep things neat. Any other sport, please begin your own discussion. 

Also, *any discussions on the PROTESTS - whether for OR against, should be kept in the Hot Topics forum. *

Many thanks, and let the season begin (sort of, and finally, LOL)!


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## Lethe200

*It’s Patrick Mahomes’s N.F.L., but Let’s Preview All 32 Teams Anyway*
Mahomes and Lamar Jackson headline an exciting new era of the N.F.L., which is on track for an on-time return to the field, just as planned.
NY Times Sept. 7, 2020

While just about every other American sports league had to radically change its season because of the coronavirus, the N.F.L. waited patiently, insisting it would stick with its normal timeline. That confidence appears to have paid off, with the league set to kick off on Thursday, just as it said it would all along.

The league should look and feel quite different, as most Week 1 games are expected to be played minus fans in the stands — the Dallas Cowboys insist they will have a crowd — and plenty of important players have opted out.

But, focusing solely on the game, the N.F.L. is in great shape. A new generation of quarterbacks, led by Patrick Mahomes of the Kansas City Chiefs and Lamar Jackson of the Baltimore Ravens, has made the league even more exciting, and unexpected turnarounds by certain teams in recent seasons have made it seem that any franchise is a move or two away from relevance.

To get everyone caught up, we broke the league down, team by team, looking at what’s changed and what you might expect during what should be an exciting, unusual season.

*Breaking Down the Divisions *(direct links to each division, but the article is just one long column so I suggest using the Full Article link at the bottom)
A.F.C. East: Tom Brady Doesn’t Live Here Anymore
A.F.C. North: The Division That Runs
A.F.C. South: Three Good Teams and Jacksonville
A.F.C. West: Property of Patrick Lavon Mahomes II
N.F.C. East: Where 9-7 Is Enough
N.F.C. North: The Packers and Friends
N.F.C. South: Assisted Living for Aging Quarterbacks
N.F.C. West: The Best Division in Football

Full article: (free access to NY Times restricted to 5 articles/month)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/07/...l&pgtype=Homepage&section=Sports#link-cd6fbd8


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## old eyes II

Well, were all waiting to see Tom Terrific, remembering that he has Gronk and another good tight end, Brates who is no slouchl  He may well surprise us with no sacks and a good passing attack.  Tampa has a good running back, Tom is not going to beat the Saints, but he will
beat a lot of other teams.

(I'm having an identify crisis, I am Jerryold, and ruff ruff, everytime there is an electrical storm the pc goes nuts.  I remain confused)


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## Don M.

I'm looking forward to watching the KC Chiefs play...Mahomes and his receivers..especially Travis Kelce, are fun to watch.  I think their first game is this Thursday, against Houston, but I don't know if there will be fans allowed.  Our rural TV service broadcasts all their games, so I will be watching.


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## jerry old

Are you'll disgusted  with the NFL, and several other aspects of our nation?  Jerry Jones is going to get his share even if
he has to suit up and play (giggle).  
It appears every team that wins a few games will be in the playoffs-come on owners, get that  TV money.
I'll watch the Cowboys flub and dub, 2nd half-the games do take up a lot of time.

I wish they would all play on Sundays at 12 P.M.  (circa 1960)  there are just too many games.

The biggest reason for the popularity of football is NFL Films.


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## Becky1951

Don M. said:


> I'm looking forward to watching the KC Chiefs play...Mahomes and his receivers..especially Travis Kelce, are fun to watch.  I think their first game is this Thursday, against Houston, but I don't know if there will be fans allowed.  Our rural TV service broadcasts all their games, so I will be watching.


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## Don M.

We went to KC Thursday/Friday, and watched the game on the dozens of TV's in the casino.  The people in the casino were all cheering loudly every time the Chiefs made a good play.  We felt almost "out of place" because we weren't wearing any Chiefs shirts/hats, etc.....the casino looked like a "Chiefs store" with so many people wearing Chiefs clothing.  The Chiefs got a good start to this years season with their win over Houston, and we're all hoping they can repeat last years performance.


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## ClassicRockr

Watched the Chiefs play the Texans on Thursday night. It was really "all Chiefs". 

Am looking very forward to seeing what Tom is going to bring to Tampa. 

Wife and I are both really, really glad to see NFL back on tv.


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## jimbowho

Used to be too busy to watch TV, now that I'm getting dated watching football was great. But now it's so political I can't watch. Can't abide by the hypocrisy. No thank you, Mountain biking, fishing, dual sport off roading, reloading-shooting, and "I want to learn golf". Goodbye Sports.

Ps. I also don't like being told what to discuss on a topic. Not cool!


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## Becky1951

"Ps. I also don't like being told what to discuss on a topic. Not cool!"

The subject for this thread is *NFL Football*, in order to keep it regarding *NFL FOOTBALL* other topics should not be brought into it. That strays away from the original topic of the post and not fair to the original poster or those reading the posts who are interested in the original topic.


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## jerry old

Want to see the  rock'um, sock'um Ravens play  Mahomes..
The Steelers have  faded, will miss their dog fights with the Ravenns.  mauling each .


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## Becky1951




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## jerry old

hey, let's have a pro football game with no spectators.
Nah, won't work.


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## Becky1951

jerry old said:


> hey, let's have a pro football game with no spectators.
> Nah, won't work.



They could easily mark spaces of 6-8 ft apart for spectators. I was surprised seeing "no spectators"


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## Don M.

Becky1951 said:


> They could easily mark spaces of 6-8 ft apart for spectators. I was surprised seeing "no spectators"



Arrowhead Stadium allowed about 16,000 fans to watch the KC/Houston game this past Thursday night.  Everyone had to wear masks, and maintain several seats between themselves....families, etc., could sit together.


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## MarkinPhx

Cardinals won today so I am a happy camper.


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## Lethe200

Pt 1 of 2: *What We Learned From Week 1 of the NFL Season*
Cam Newton looked terrific, Tom Brady looked fairly terrible, and there were upsets all over the place in a wild slate of games. Here’s what we learned.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman, Sept. 13, 2020

*These are not Tom Brady’s Patriots.* In his first game for NE, QB Cam Newton led the team to an easy win over the Miami Dolphins. He managed just 155 yards through the air, but that was plenty to go with his 75 rushing yards and two touchdowns. The 75 rushing yards are more than Brady had in 14 of his 19 seasons as NE’s starter, with the future Hall of Famer never having rushed for more than 31 yards in a game. Newton is now up to 60 career rushing touchdowns, which is 17 more than any other NFL QB (Steve Young had 43). Not to be outdone entirely by Newton, Brady showed he is still nearly unstoppable in short-yardage situations by running for a 1-yard touchdown early in Tampa Bay’s loss to the New Orleans Saints.

*When they say “on any given Sunday,” that includes Week 1. *The Jacksonville Jaguars, the Chicago Bears and the Washington Football Team looked like basement dwellers coming into the season, but all three are 1-0 after Jacksonville and Washington delivered shocking upsets of well-regarded teams (the Indianapolis Colts and the Philadelphia Eagles, respectively) and the Bears engineered a thrilling fourth quarter comeback over the Detroit Lions. You might want to wait a week or two before hopping on the bandwagon, but wins are wins.

*The 49ers will be hearing the phrase ‘Super Bowl hangover’ quite a bit. *SF was hoping a stable off-season would help the team avoid the fate of Super Bowl losers of years past, but the team’s defense continued to struggle with mobile QBs, new Cardinals wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins had a great day — even by his lofty standards — and the 49ers’ defense of the team’s N.F.C. title began with a division loss at home.

*The spirit of Jameis Winston lives on for Tampa Bay. *Tom Brady, a 43-year-old six-time Super Bowl-winning QB, was brought over from the Patriots to stabilize a wildly volatile position for the Buccaneers. In his first start, Brady looked a lot like Winston, his predecessor as Tampa Bay’s starter. Brady had his moments where you could see the magic, but he also threw two interceptions, including a pick-six, letting Drew Brees and the New Orleans Saints get an easy win at home. Winston, who had a front-row seat from the New Orleans sideline, set some lofty goals for Brady in terms of volatility, with 33 touchdown passes and 30 interceptions last season.

*The Packers should have drafted Aaron Rodgers’s heir apparent years ago. *Much was made of Rodgers being miffed that GB used its first-round pick on Jordan Love, a QB out of Utah State. Rodgers said the right things in interviews, but he seemed to do so through clenched teeth. Known for playing well with a chip on his shoulder, Rodgers responded to the perceived slight by throwing for 364 yards and four touchdowns in Sunday’s road win over the rival Minnesota Vikings. If Rodgers can play like that every week, the Packers might want to draft a QB next year too.

*Plans change quickly with RBs. *Only one RB — KC’s Clyde Edwards-Helaire — was taken on the first day of this year’s draft, but this year’s crop of rookies is already looking particularly strong. Edwards-Helaire found himself starting for the Chiefs after Damien Williams opted out of the season, and he ran for 138 yards in KC’s win over Houston on Thursday. Jonathan Taylor, a second-round pick out of Wisconsin, had 89 yards from scrimmage in the Colts’ loss to Jacksonville on Sunday, and J.K. Dobbins, a second-rounder out of Ohio State, had two touchdown runs in Baltimore’s romp over Cleveland.

*Sometimes the obvious call is the right call. *In a classic case of overthinking things, Carolina faced a fourth-and-inches play in the closing minutes of the team’s game against the Las Vegas Raiders. With everyone expecting a run, or pass, to Christian McCaffrey, Teddy Bridgewater instead handed off to fullback Alex Armah, who was crushed to the ground at the line of scrimmage for no gain, ending Carolina’s comeback attempt. McCaffrey finished the day with 134 yards from scrimmage and two touchdowns. Armah carried the ball twice for 1 yard.

*Josh Allen keeps things exciting — sometimes too exciting. *The Bills’ third-year QB threw for a career-high 312 yards in a 27-17 dismantling of the Jets, making him the first Buffalo QB to top 300 yards since Tyrod Taylor did it in 2016, and just the second to do it since 2014, according to Pro Football Reference. Allen threw two touchdown passes, and ran one in as well, while leading the Bills with 57 rushing yards. Lest Buffalo fans get too excited, Allen also had two fairly brutal fumbles in Jets territory that could have cost his team dearly if the Bills’ defense wasn’t so proficient that the damage resulted in just 3 points.

*Jamal Adams is not bored. *The All-Pro safety had a rough breakup with the Jets, and Gregg Williams, his former defensive coordinator, insisted he would be bored in Seattle’s pedestrian defensive scheme. On Sunday, Adams had 12 tackles, two QB hits and a sack in the Seahawks’ 38-25 win over the Atlanta Falcons. Williams, meanwhile, had his interesting and complicated defense dismantled by Josh Allen.


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## Lethe200

*Pt 2/2: NYTimes on NFL’s Week 1:

Aldon Smith’s Shocking Comeback. *No one ever doubted Aldon Smith’s on-field talent, but the defensive end had so many off-field issues that it seemed the promising start to his career in SF had been entirely squandered. Somehow still just 30 years old, Smith, who had not appeared in a game in nearly five years, was on the field for the Dallas Cowboys on Sunday night, and while his team lost to the Los Angeles Rams, Smith’s performance was nothing short of remarkable. Smith, who last played on Nov. 15, 2015, looked like his old self, with 11 tackles, two QB hits and a sack.

Explaining all of Smith’s off-field problems would take quite a bit of space, but for reference, the “Legal Issues” section of his Wikipedia page has nine separate entries, and includes drug and alcohol incidents, a domestic violence accusation and a bomb threat at an airport.

*Sunday’s Top Performers
Top Passer: Lamar Jackson. *It appears as if last season’s winner of the Most Valuable Player Award would like to make it two in a row. Jackson was a model of efficiency, completing 20 of 25 passes for 275 yards and three touchdowns, while also topping the Ravens with 45 yards on the ground. Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers were just a tick behind in efficiency, and Gardner Minshew got to rub elbows with some elite company.

*Top Runner: Josh Jacobs. *Clyde Edwards-Helaire of the KC Chiefs rushed for 134 yards on Thursday night, but not a single other runner managed even 100 on Sunday. Of the five players who had 90 or more, Jacobs of the Raiders set himself apart by rushing for three touchdowns, including a 6-yarder with 4:08 remaining in the game that put Las Vegas up for good.

*Top Receiver: Davante Adams. *Julio Jones became the second-fastest receiver in NFL history to reach 800 receptions — needing just one game more than Antonio Brown, who did it in 126 — and DeAndre Hopkins set a personal-best with 14 catches, but Adams hauled in two of Aaron Rodgers’s four touchdown passes while catching 14 of the 17 passes thrown his way.

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games    *Except when it takes more.

Ravens 38, Browns 6. * Cleveland beat Baltimore on Sept 29 of last season, and the Ravens have not lost a regular season game since — a streak that will reach at least 357 days thanks to Lamar Jackson throwing for 275 yards and three touchdowns, with a sparking passer rating of 152.1, in a game that was not nearly as close as the final result suggests.

*Saints 34, Buccaneers 23.* For much of the games, the — shall we say, experienced? — QBs of these teams looked their age, but Drew Brees had an undeniable highlight with a 46-yard completion to tight end Jared Cook, and New Orleans took care of business at home.

*Rams 20, Cowboys 17.* Playing for the first time in the team’s new stadium in Inglewood, Calif., the Rams were not exactly back to their world-beating ways of two seasons ago, but thanks to a solid effort from veteran RB Malcolm Brown, and a somewhat questionable illegal contact call against Dallas wide receiver Michael Gallup late in the game, Los Angeles was able to hand the Cowboys an opening-week loss. Asked afterward about the illegal contact call, referee Tony Corrente said the decision was “obvious.”

*Packers 43, Vikings 34.* There were plenty of positives Minnesota could take from this game — Adam Thielen succeeding without Stefon Diggs, Dalvin Cook running for two touchdowns, etc. — but all of them came on offense, as the team’s short-handed defense was brutalized by GB, giving up an unseemly 522 yards.

*Jaguars 27, Colts 20.* Indianapolis added QB Philip Rivers to complement the team’s power running game. Rivers threw for 363 yards (and two extremely costly interceptions), but the Colts struggled to run the ball and lost starter Marlon Mack to what could be a season-ending injury. That and the team’s defense falling apart resulted in the day’s biggest upset.

*Washington 27, Eagles 17.* It was an incredibly messy off-season for Washington, but the season got off to a shockingly happy start with the Footballers fighting their way back from a 17-point deficit thanks to some tough play from the team’s defense, two rushing touchdowns from Peyton Barber, and steady play from second-year QB Dwayne Haskins.

*Cardinals 24, 49ers 20.* It seems like DeAndre Hopkins is going to work out just fine for Arizona, as the wide receiver, acquired in a trade with Houston this off-season, had 14 catches for 151 yards against one of the best secondaries in football.

*Bears 27, Lions 23.* For three quarters, Chicago’s decision to stick with Mitchell Trubisky at QB looked brutal, but the Bears, who trailed at that point by 23-6, had a comeback for the ages. The much-maligned Trubisky threw three touchdown passes in the final quarter, including a 27-yard go-ahead pass to Anthony Miller with 1 minute 54 seconds left in the game.

*Raiders 34, Panthers 30.* Just coming back to the point already made above: If you need a few inches, and your team has Christian McCaffrey, you give the ball to Christian McCaffrey. Not to the fullback Alex Armah.

*Seahawks 38, Falcons 25.* It appears as if Coach Pete Carroll finally heard about the “Let Russ Cook” campaign, as Seattle was the Russell Wilson show in a road victory, with the QB throwing for 322 yards and four touchdowns.

*Chargers 16, Bengals 13.* Rookie QB Joe Burrow looked awfully great on a 23-yard touchdown run, but the Bengals were the Bengals. Wide receiver A.J. Green got flagged for offensive pass interference in the closing seconds, ruining Cincinnati’s chance at a come-from-behind win.

*Bills 27, Jets 17.* Given a stiff test to start the season, the Jets failed, with QB Sam Darnold looking pedestrian against Buffalo’s (admittedly terrific) defense, and RB Le’Veon Bell missing the second half with a hamstring injury. That left the team’s defense — minus safety Jamal Adams, who was traded to Seattle — to deal with an onslaught led by Josh Allen of the Bills.

*Patriots 21, Dolphins 11.* It’s not particularly fair to judge a journeyman QB for a developing team when he’s up against one of the best secondaries in the NFL, but Ryan Fitzpatrick’s zero-touchdown, three-interception effort certainly didn’t quiet calls for Tua Tagovailoa to get a shot under center for Miami.


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## Lethe200

Week 2! I edited the NYT article to update on the known injuries, of which there were too many. Long, so this is Pt 1 of 2 posts:

*What We Learned From Week 2 of the NFL Season*
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman 20Sept2020, edited by lethe200
After Week 1 was defined by huge upsets, some order has been restored to the NFL this week with 14 of 15 favorites prevailing leading into Monday night’s game in LVegas. The road to those victories was rocky, however, as several star players have been lost to injuries, some of them season-ending.

*The Atlanta Falcons have a flair for the dramatic, in a bad way.* A franchise that was already nearly synonymous with a dubious set of numbers - 28-3 - added a new score for their team’s fans to loathe: 29-10. That was where things stood at halftime on Sunday before a truly epic second-half collapse against the Dallas Cowboys, who won, 40-39. Dallas scored on five of the team’s six second-half possessions, but still needed a bit of a miracle in the form of an onside kick in the game’s final two minutes that was recovered by the Cowboys despite the ball rolling right past multiple Falcons players on its way to Dallas’ C.J. Goodwin.

*Cam Newton is not quite automatic at the goal line. *The Patriots’ new QB was lined up on the 1-yard line, trailing by 5 with just seconds to play. Everyone knew he was going to run. He already had 397 passing yds, 47 rushing yds and two rushing TDs in the game, and he had his team on the verge of a shocking comeback on the road in Seattle. But defensive end L.J. Collier shot into the backfield, upended Newton, and the Seahawks on 35-30.

*Stephen Gostkowski likes high stakes. *The former Patriots kicker has had an uneven first season for the Titans. The 36-year-old has already missed three field goals and two extra-points through just two games, but when his team has truly needed him he’s been electric. He closed Week 1 with a 25-yard game-winner against Denver, and on Sunday he put the Titans ahead to stay with a 49-yarder in the final minutes against Jacksonville. Tennessee, apparently, has to keep things close.

*Justin Herbert was farther along than thought. *It seemed like an ideal situation in Los Angeles, as the Chargers had a QB for the present in Tyrod Taylor, and one for the future in Herbert. But Taylor was a last-minute scratch on Sunday after he reported difficulty breathing, and Herbert, in his first NFL game, very nearly beat Patrick Mahomes and the KC Chiefs. Herbert was nothing short of fantastic, throwing for 311 yds and a TD, becoming just the third QB (Otto Graham and Cam Newton are the others) to have 300 passing yds and a rushing TD in their first NFL appearance.

*Preseason games might be important.* Theories abound for this week’s huge rash of injuries to star players, and many will focus on the lack of preseason games. The hardest hit team has been the 49ers, who added QB Jimmy Garoppolo, RB Raheem Mostert and defensive end Nick Bosa to an injury report that already included George Kittle and Richard Sherman. The Giants lost RB Saquon Barkley and Denver lost QB Drew Lock with a shoulder injury.

*We should keep our Packers record books handy. *GB’s offense has been phenomenal in 2020, scoring a combined 85 points in wins over two NFC. North rivals. It’s just the fourth time in franchise history that the Packers have scored 40-plus in consecutive games, according to Pro Football Reference. This week they relied on RB Aaron Jones as the team’s leading rusher and leading receiver, with 236 yds from scrimmage and three TDs.

*The Ravens never lose (in the regular season). *Baltimore won its 14th straight regular season game, blowing out the Houston Texans, 33-16, despite Lamar Jackson throwing for a relatively modest 204 yds and one TD, and none of the team’s celebrated runners having more than 73 yds on the ground. It was a full-team effort, with Gus Edwards, Mark Ingram, Jackson and the rookie J.K. Dobbins combining to run for 230 yds on 37 carries, while the team’s defense successfully held Deshaun Watson in check, putting some of their own points on the board thanks to L.J. Fort’s fumble recovery for a TD.

*Sunday’s Top Performers

Top Passer: Josh Allen. *Last week, Allen became the first Bills QB to top 300 passing yds in a game since 2016. This week, he became the first one to top 400 in a game since 2002 and, according to the NFL, became just the fourth QB to have 700 or more passing yds, six or more TDs and no interceptions in his team’s first two games of the season. Will he continue this trajectory and throw for 500 next week? You might not want to rule it out entirely, with the third-year QB clearly gaining confidence.

Dak Prescott, though, gets an honorable mention here. He wasn’t nearly as efficient as Allen, but he was the first player in NFL history to throw for more than 400 yds while running for at least three TDs.

*Top Runner: Aaron Jones. *Jones was absolutely everywhere in GB’s dominant win over Detroit. He ran for 168 yds, added 68 more yds with four receptions, and scored 3 TDs, giving him four for the season after he led the NFL with 19 last year.

Leonard Fournette made up for last week’s disappearing act by averaging 8.6 yds a carry while contributing two TD runs in Tampa Bay’s easy win over Carolina.

*Top Receiver: Stefon Diggs. *The former Vikings star is giving Buffalo a bona fide No. 1 receiver, opening up the field for John Brown and Cole Beasley. The Bills are 2-0. Diggs led the team in receptions and yds for a second consecutive game. But with the team needing some insurance points in the fourth quarter, Allen was able to air the ball out to a wide-open Brown. That is going to be a problem for Bills opponents.


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## Lethe200

Week 2, Pt 2 of NYT's "What we learned from the games":

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games – *Except when it takes more.

Buccaneers 31, Panthers 17.* Tom Brady is still not up to his typical New England standards - he threw for 217 yards, one TD and one interception - but the Buccaneers don’t need him to air the ball out if Leonard Fournette is going to run for 103 yards on just 12 carries and the team’s defense is going to pile up five sacks while forcing four turnovers.

*Cowboys 40, Falcons 39.* The story of the day will be Atlanta’s brutal collapse, but we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that Dak Prescott threw for 450 yards while running in three TDs. The previous record for passing yards in a game with three rushing TDs was the 317 put up by Jack Kemp of the Buffalo Bills in 1963.

*Titans 33, Jaguars 30.* Second-guessing Jacksonville’s personnel decisions is nearly a sport unto itself, but ditching Nick Foles in favor of Gardner Minshew as the team’s starting QB appears to have been the right move: Foles couldn’t beat out Mitchell Trubisky for the starting job in Chicago, and Minshew, showing all kinds of pluck and quite a bit of talent, has six TD passes through two games.

*Chiefs 23, Chargers 20 (overtime).* It says something truly remarkable about Harrison Butker that his trotting onto the field to potentially win the game from 58 yards out seemed like a forgone conclusion - and that the extreme confidence in the team’s kicker didn’t waver for a second, even when he was forced to kick a second time because of a last-second timeout.

*Ravens 33, Texans 16.* Losing to Baltimore is forgivable, but Houston’s offense looks absolutely pedestrian without WR DeAndre Hopkins, making the shocking off-season trade sting even more than it did at the time.

*Packers 42, Lions 21.* Detroit is off to a start that’s far uglier than its 0-2 record can possibly suggest, as the team pulled ahead of GB, 14-3, late in the first quarter, only to lose by 21 points - a week after blowing a 17-point fourth quarter lead against Chicago.

*Colts 28, Vikings 11.* It looked like Philip Rivers was getting ready for a second straight Very Long Sunday when he opened the game by throwing an interception in the red zone. But from that point forward, Rivers settled down, rookie RB Jonathan Taylor took over (101 yards and a TD) and the Indianapolis defense made up for last week’s embarrassment against Jacksonville by snagging three interceptions and forcing a safety.

*Cardinals 30, Washington 15.* Arizona is delivering on its preseason hype so far, with QB Kyler Murray taking a leap in his second season, with plenty of help from RB Kenyan Drake and WR DeAndre Hopkins. With the Cardinals’ next three games coming against Detroit, Carolina and the Jets, a 5-0 start is extremely realistic.

*Seahawks 35, Patriots 30.* It was the Cam Newton Show in the fourth quarter - right up until it wasn’t - but this game belonged to Russell Wilson, who looked like a candidate for the Most Valuable Player Award for a second consecutive week.

*Bills 31, Dolphins 28.* Give Ryan Fitzpatrick some credit: The journeyman QB is not going to give up his job easily. He followed up a disastrous Week 1 by having a terrific effort (317 yards, 2 TDs) against Buffalo’s stellar defense, very nearly pulling off what would have been a stunning upset.

*Rams 37, Eagles 19.* A matchup of Jared Goff and Carson Wentz is always going to raise the stakes, as the QBs went with the first two picks in the 2016 draft, but this one was all Goff, who demolished his friendly rival by throwing for 267 yards and three TDs.

*49ers 31, Jets 13.* A win that felt like a loss. The 49ers won this game in a rout, but lost defensive end Nick Bosa with a torn ACL for the remainder of the season and may be without QB Jimmy Garoppolo (ankle) and RB Raheem Mostert (knee) in the coming weeks.

*Steelers 26, Broncos 21/* That this game was so close is a testament to Denver’s perseverance, as the team came in without RB Phillip Lindsay or linebacker Von Miller, and lost starting QB Drew Lock in the first quarter, only to find itself on the verge of a potential upset that fizzled with a fourth-down sack with less than two minutes left in the fourth quarter.

*Bears 17, Giants 13.* Giants fans can wince at being 0-2, but at least Saquon Barkley’s injury went down from being a possible ACL tear to a week-by-week high ankle sprain (same injury at Garoppolo/Niners suffered).


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## Lethe200

I only watched some of the games in Week 2.  
*Chiefs over Chargers* – There is always one opponent that gives the powerhouse team fits. For the Chiefs that team seems to be the Chargers. The games are usually won by the Chiefs, but the Chargers give them a scare, every time. And they did it again this time. Justin Herbert looked impressive for a rookie (6th round pick) after Tyrod Taylor suffered a collapsed lung when the team doctor was trying to give him a painkiller injection but punctured the lung instead! The NYT was off, btw – kicker Butker didn’t kick twice for the winning FG. He had to kick *three times,* after a 5-yd penalty on one kick, but got all three through with plus-50 yarders. He made it look easy.

*Seahawks over Patriots. *A close game! At first it looked all Seattle but then NE settled down and put together some good drives. Russell Wilson is woefully underappreciated – and I say that as a Niners fan! He threw for FIVE TDs and they were absolute beauties. I disagreed with the TV analysts. I've always enjoyed watching Cam Newton but he looked rusty. He throws a very different ball than Brady and the NE receivers seemed to have trouble judging it. The only exception was Edelman, but he had to leap forward and really stretch to catch a long pass from Newton.

Cam needs to soften up his touch a bit. As the season progresses he should be more in sync with his backfield. Right now, his receivers aren't getting the chance to run for good yardage after the catch, as they're fumbling for the ball with the defenders closing in on them.

*Raiders win over Saints –* Well, this surprised everybody! Even me, and I _like_ the Raiders. Starting off 2-0 is a shocker. Much of the success is due to RB Josh Jacobs and TE Darren Waller*. Waller caught 12-of-16 targets for 103 yards and one TD. Jacobs was the Raiders' Round 1 pick in 2019, and was good for 88 yards on 27 carries.
* _Trivia fact: Darren is the great-grandson of jazz legend Fats Waller._

QB Derek Carr came into 2020 saying he felt disrespected as a QB and intended to change that. One problem is that for the three years 2016-2018, Carr was under three different OCs with three different offensive schemes. There was no consistency and not surprisingly he struggled. He is not a Hall of Famer QB, but is a classic pocket passer with average mobility on the roll-out. His greatest strength is his arm – he's rated a 9.5 on a scale of 10. 

I don't really think Jon Gruden is worth the high-priced 10 yr contract owner Mark Davis threw at him. But he's a good coach, if not a great one, and consistency in the playcalling is going to work to Carr's advantage. Carr has been criticized for his pocket presence in previous years, but it looks like he has finally gotten in sync with Gruden's playbook. He was sacked three times but kept his cool, with no interceptions. The offense played at a good speed, with energy and focus. The Raiders scored on six of their last seven possessions, including a 4th and goal TD. Carr threw to eleven different players in this game, an inordinately high number, and had 3 TD passes. A critical stat: Raiders were 10/17 on third downs.

The Saints looked great through the first quarter, leading 10-0. Then the Raiders D stepped up and the Saints never again put together a drive that lasted more than nine plays. Penalties have killed them in their first two games: the Saints lead the league in penalties yards at 248.  On Monday night, New Orleans gave up 129 penalty yards on 10 accepted penalties. This is ironic, as it's usually the Raiders who lead the NFL in penalties.

High-priced free agent WR Emmanuel Sanders has disappointed the Saints. In two games he has 4 catches for 33 yds and 1 TD. It helped the Raiders that Brees was missing his favorite target WR Michael Thomas, who has ankle issues still being diagnosed.

*Niners over Jets.* Man, this was painful for Niners fans. The injury bug killed us in 2018 and it's doing the same in 2020. Of the eight players now out for multiple games, seven are starters, and the eighth was the back-up for one of the injured starters! In 2019, Niners had the #2 defense and the #8 offense. We have lost the following first stringers:

_*Offense:*_
QB Jimmy Garoppolo – high ankle sprain, multiple weeks
WR Deebo Samuels – foot, IR, injured Game 1, return scheduled Game 4
WR Richie James – hamstring IR, return scheduled for Game 5
RB Rasteen Mostert – MCL knee, hoping for return Game 4
RB Tevin Coleman – knee, hoping for return Game 4. He spells Mostert
TE George Kittle – MCL knee and bone bruise, questionable for Game 3

If the offense is the "right hand" of the team, then losing Samuels, Mostert, and Kittle equals losing the thumb, index, and middle finger of that hand. Kittle is called the best TE today, and one of the best blocking tight ends ever. Even if JG returns, it's Kittle's hands in catching those crossing passes over the middle, and Kittle's blocking which springs the RBs, that enables HC Shanahan's complex offense. Mostert is currently the fastest RB in the NFL, with TD runs clocked at 22 mph and 23 mph in the first two games of 2020. Samuels has worked through last year's rookie spate of dropped passes to become a dependable receiver for those roll-out plays that keep his QB from getting sacked by a suddenly porous OL which has done a terrible job in 2020.

_*Defense:*_
CB Richard Sherman – calf injury IR, back by Game 5
DT/CB Solomon Thomas – ACL, IR out for season. Was Sherman's back-up.
DE Dee Ford – back (still undergoing tests), out indefinitely
DE Nick Bosa – ACL tear, out for season
OLB Dre Greenlaw – quadriceps, hoping for return Game 4

DC Robert Saleh is brilliant, but losing Nick Bosa creates a black hole hard to fill. Lack of cap space forced the trade of defensive great DeForest Buckner to Indianapolis, and it was Dee Ford who filled that hole – so now what? The Niners secondary is iffy anyway – it remains an area GM Lynch and HC Shanahan want to upgrade, but cap space is very limited for the Niners with 18 free agents coming up in 2021. The current style of college D's is not producing the kind of 'instant impact' players in the secondaries the NFL needs. Sherman's getting old and slow, but his knowledge and experience is invaluable with the young secondary. 

The Niners complained bitterly about the turf at MetLife Stadium, but they'll have to deal with it again for Game 3 vs the Giants.


----------



## jerry old

Difficult to accept Raiders beating Saints, what's the world coming too?


----------



## macgeek

I wont be watching as long as their kneeling disrespecting our vets and our flag.


----------



## jerry old

i don't watch the first quarter-the nonsense is over by 2nd quarter


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Wk 3 Predictions: Our Picks Against the Spread *(Pt 1 of 2 posts, as usual, due to length)
With a matchup between the Ravens and the Chiefs looming on Monday, the rest of the week feels like an appetizer.
Benjamin Hoffman/NYTimes Sept. 24, 2020

Sunday’s games are an appetizer at best. Even a terrific matchup like the LA Rams facing the Bills in New York seems like a snoozer when the matchup between KC and Baltimore awaits on Monday night. But the league still plans on playing the other games, and there should be some good ones along the way to get you ready for Monday.

*Wk 3/Thursday’s Matchup: Dolphins 31, Jaguars 13*
It seems like Ryan Fitzpatrick has at least one game like this every season. He makes every throw, he moves around in the pocket, and he rallies his team behind him on the way to victory. That version of Fitzpatrick showed up in Jacksonville on Thursday, and the large-bearded 37-year-old completed 18 of 20 passes for 160 yards and two TDs, adding some insult to the Jaguars’ injury by running in a score as well. He improved his career record against the Jaguars to 6-3, and became the first QB to ever beat an opponent with six different teams (Cincinnati, Buffalo, Tennessee, Houston, the Jets and Miami).

Our prediction of Jaguars -3 was based on the pluck Jacksonville had shown in its first two games, but on Thursday, the Jaguars looked a lot like the bottom-feeder that most had predicted coming into the season.

*Sunday’s Best Games

LA Rams at Buffalo Bills, 1 p.m., Fox | Pick: Bills*
After a 2019 in which everything went wrong, the Rams (2-0) seem to have found some of their 2018 magic, grinding out a win over Dallas in Wk 1 before blowing out Philadelphia in Wk 2. They’ll face the Bills (2-0), who have dominated even though the team’s prime asset - its defense - has played below its standards. It seems like a waste for such a game to be relegated to a 1 p.m. time slot.

For Buffalo, an explosion of the team’s passing game can be attributed to weak competition, but also to wide receiver Stefon Diggs. Acquired in a trade with Minnesota, Diggs has given the Bills the No. 1 receiver it lacked, which has opened up the entire field for QB Josh Allen. The big-armed Allen has responded with a league-leading 729 yards passing and six TDs, with no interceptions. And with the team’s running game off to a sluggish start, and its defense still rounding into form, Buffalo actually has quite a bit of room for improvement.

The Bills may need to show that improvement quickly, as the Rams have a lot of options on offense, even with the rookie RB Cam Akers injured. And LA, while not exactly the Steelers, is not a pushover in pass defense.

*Las Vegas Raiders at NE Patriots, 1 p.m., CBS | Pick: Patriots*
The Raiders (2-0) are off to a nice start to their season and just opened their new home in Las Vegas in style with a huge win over New Orleans. For their trouble, they now get Cam Newton and the Patriots (1-1) in Foxborough. That hardly seems fair.

Newton opened up the full arsenal of the NE offense against Seattle last week, and if he had been able to run in a goal-line TD - something he typically does with ease - the Patriots would have shocked a Super Bowl contender on their turf.

NE’s defense has shown some effects from an off-season spent shedding players, or having them opt out of the season, which could leave open some room for QB Derek Carr to put points on the board. But there’s little reason to believe that a red-hot Newton can’t will his team to victory.

*GB Packers at New Orleans Saints, 8:20 p.m., NBC | Pick: Packers *
Between how pedestrian the Saints (1-1) looked on Monday night, and how terrifically the Packers (2-0) have played in both of their games, the Saints being favored, even at home, is one of the more surprising decisions by LVegas oddsmakers. It could be a matter of the Saints defense being the stiffest test that QB Aaron Rodgers, RB Aaron Jones and the Packers have faced this year. It might be a belief that Drew Brees and Alvin Kamara are capable of more than they’ve shown. Or it might just be a holdover belief that you have to respect the Saints at home. But based on everything we’ve actually seen, GB should be expected to win. 

*Dallas Cowboys at Seattle Seahawks, 4:25 p.m., Fox | Pick: Seahawks*
It would be easier to feel good about the Cowboys (1-1) and their huge comeback victory against Atlanta last week had they had not fallen behind, 29-10, in the first place. There is clearly something amiss for the Dallas defense, and facing Russell Wilson and the Seahawks (2-0) in Seattle is not a good time to work through your issues. 

*Monday’s Matchup
KC Chiefs at Baltimore Ravens, 8:15 p.m., ESPN | Pick: Ravens*
Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs (2-0). Lamar Jackson and the Ravens (2-0). There are no better QBs in the NFL, no better teams and there is no better matchup that the league could have for a prime time game. The Super Bowl champion Chiefs face a Ravens team that hasn’t lost a regular-season game in nearly a year.

This game comes one day short of the one-year anniversary of Baltimore’s last regular-season loss. The Ravens have stayed consistent thanks to the most productive running game in NFL history, and a passing attack that is ruthlessly efficient with its modest yardage. Couple that with a defense that is solid at every level and it’s no wonder that they win so many games in blowouts.

KC’s formula is even simpler: Mahomes. At no point in any game that he’s playing, no matter the score, can the Chiefs be counted out, and that helps hide any deficiencies the team might have in overall defensive depth. That they’ve surrounded Mahomes with a group of ultrafast receivers, along with premier kicker Harrison Butker, pays dividends regularly, including last week's come-from-behind OT victory against the Chargers in a game KC absolutely should have lost. 

Between home-field advantage and the team’s superior defense, Baltimore is a rightful favorite. But even if it’s 35-3 at halftime, you’ll want to keep watching, just in case.


----------



## Lethe200

*Week 3: Sunday’s Other Games   * (Pt 2 of 2, due to length)

*Houston Texans at Pittsburgh Steelers, 1 p.m., CBS | Pick: Steelers*
The Texans (0-2) opened the season with games against the NFL’s two best teams (KC and Baltimore), and did an excellent job of not standing in either team’s way. The run defense is awful, with an average of 198 yards allowed per game. Pittsburgh loves to focus on the run and will be happy  to let RB James Conner carry them to a win at home. Pittsburgh’s stellar defense is likely smarting after allowing a combined 37 points against weak competition in the Giants and Broncos, and they should be amped up for a challenge from Houston’s Deshaun Watson.

*Tennessee Titans at Minnesota Vikings, 1 p.m., CBS | Pick: Vikings*
The Titans (2-0) put most of their energy into preserving the team’s offense this off-season and that is showing up in the results so far, with QB Ryan Tannehill (six passing TDs, no interceptions) and RB Derrick Henry (200 yards rushing) doing their thing. But the team’s defense keeps things so close that both games have come down to a last-minute field goal by Stephen Gostkowski. Their offense should meet very little resistance from the woeful defense of the Vikings (0-2), but if Tennessee can barely slow down Denver or Jacksonville, it could be in for a world of hurt against Kirk Cousins and Minnesota.

*Detroit Lions at Arizona Cardinals, 4:25 p.m., Fox | Pick: Cardinals*
Any football game can go sideways, so this should be taken with a fairly large grain of salt: but the path to a 5-0 start seems to be cleared for the Cardinals (2-0), who are red-hot and have their next three games against the Lions (0-2), the Panthers (0-2) and the Jets (0-2). Things get decidedly more difficult beyond that, with Dallas and Seattle ahead of Arizona’s Wk 8 bye, but so far Arizona seems like a team that can beat up on the league’s lesser teams at the very least.

*SF 49ers at Giants, 1 p.m., Fox | Pick: 49ers*
The 49ers (1-1) will be without their entire first-string backfield and are down to their third-string QB Nick Mullens. They’ve lost Nick Bosa and Dee Ford on the pass rush, as well as CB Richard Sherman AND his back-up Solomon Thomas. Yet they’re favored by 4.5 points on the road. The Giants (0-2) stink.

*Carolina Panthers at LA Chargers, 4:05 p.m., CBS | Pick: Panthers*
Rookie Justin Herbert turned in a phenomenal performance during an OT loss to KC last Wk. Herbert was just the third QB to ever have 300-plus passing yards and a rushing TD in his first NFL game (Otto Graham and Cam Newton are the others). If he follows that with a win over the Christian McCaffrey-less Panthers (0-2), injured Tyrod Taylor may find it hard to unseat him from the starting QB job.

*TBay Buccaneers at Denver Broncos, 4:25 p.m., Fox | Pick: Buccaneers*
When Tom Brady chose the Buccaneers (1-1) it was likely based on the team’s terrific defense and its depth at WR. Having RB Leonard Fournette fall into the team’s lap was icing on the cake. Things seemed to be running at full speed in a Wk 2 win over Carolina. The Panthers weren’t the toughest competition, but neither are the Broncos (0-2) - especially with QB Drew Lock and wide receiver Courtland Sutton both out. At this point, getting Fournette into a rhythm and developing chemistry between Brady and his receivers is an important step for when TBay does face someone good.

*Jets at Indianapolis Colts, 4:05 p.m., CBS | Pick: Jets*
Even as 49ers players dropped like flies last week, the Jets (0-2) never made things close. They were playing against backups, and backups to backups, and got blown out. Now the team faces the Colts (1-1), who shook off an opening week letdown against Jacksonville by looking strong on both sides of the ball last Wk.

The Jets were leaving open running lanes last week, so a huge day from Jonathan Taylor, the Colts’ rookie RB, may be in order. There’s no reason to expect a Jets victory, but banking on Indianapolis to keep its foot on the gas long enough to justify a double-digit point spread is unrealistic.

*Chicago Bears at Atlanta Falcons, 1 p.m., Fox | Pick: Falcons*
The Falcons (0-2) came into the season believing some additions to the team’s offense could put them back on the playoff map. Through two weeks, their defense has allowed 953 total yards and 78 points, so even if they found a way to sneak the Ravens offense onto the field they’d still be in trouble. Now Atlanta faces an interesting challenge in the Bears (2-0) who have a little momentum to start their season (with the extremely large caveat that their wins came against the Lions and the Giants).

Matt Ryan has enough options at his disposal that he absolutely should be able to out-duel Mitchell Trubisky at home. But this game is a tossup based on Atlanta’s defense and the psychological impact of last week’s collapse against Dallas.

*Cincinnati Bengals at Philadelphia Eagles, 1 p.m., CBS | Pick: Bengals*
He may not have a win yet, but Joe Burrow of the Bengals (0-2) is impressing a lot of people. The top pick in this year’s draft had an exciting TD run in Wk 1 and threw for 316 yards and three TDs in Wk 2. Wk 3 against the Eagles (0-2) seems like an excellent opportunity for him to get his first career win, though his chances swing heavily on the health of Philadelphia’s offensive line.

*Washington Football Team at Cleveland Browns, 1 p.m., Fox | Pick: Washington*
The Footballers (1-1) crashed to Earth a bit in Wk 2, though there’s no shame in losing to the Cardinals. If there’s a glimmer of hope in a road game where they’re a sizable underdog, it’s that the Browns (1-1) have allowed 64 points through two games, which could give this game shootout, rather than blowout, potential. Cleveland is a much more talented team, but if they’re going to let Cincinnati play them close, there’s reason to believe they’ll do the same with Washington.


----------



## jerry old

Cam Newton move to NE may have been what he needed, that and Mr. Bill.  He certainty showed he had a lot of gas left in his tank.

Again, Saints lost to Raiders, still don't understand 

Boy's flubbed and dubbed as usual, lost three fumbles in first quarter; two fumbles will lose a game.   Then they took a nap.  They are a mess!
I could not get thrilled about their last second win, they should have lost by 2TD's
They will got to Settle this week and get the spanking they deserved last week.

Lethe200 points out good games kickoff time at 1PM EST, 12 PM Central, seems like a waste of viewers that would have watched had they played at 3 PM or in the evening.

Still waiting for Ravers vs Stealers-Ravens by 9, but it will be a good football game.

KC vs Black Birds (Ravens) don't be surprised by upset.
Gosh, how teams much hate knowing they have to play these manglers on Sunday.

Hey, since Lethe200 gives us the favorites, you have any upsets you want to post?


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## jerry old

Tx vs Texas Tech
Texas Tech isi a QB school (Mahomes and others  )           If you play these guys you had  better be prepared to pass, pass and pass.

Lots of mistakes, dropped passes, lots of comebacks... Texas needed 2 point  conversion to tie with 40 seconds to go-They Made It!
Overtime coming up...College games have always been more exciting than pros, if you have a horse in the race.

Texas wins in a barn burner 63 to 56, that''s 119 total points.

 Kansas State beat 3rd ranked Oklahoma
LSU #6 lost-where are you Joe Burrows?


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## jerry old

*Where is the chatter?*

Browns may make playoffs: Yes, No?

We've not heard the last of the Pats, their still dangerous; us see what they do with Buffalo

If your lacking a team to follow, you can watch Cowboys and Settle,and hope Cowboys don't embarrassed themselves-again.


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## Autumn

I watched the Patriot's defeat the Raiders today, New England played a great running game.  It looks like Cam Newton was a good choice to replace Tom Brady.  When the Patriot's are doing well, all's right in my world (at least for a few hours while I'm absorbed in the game!)


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## DaveA

Burkhead had a great game as well as Shoney Michel.  The Pats rolled up 250+/- running yards.


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## jerry old

Re: two post abovee
The Pat's winning ways, for so long gave them a great fan base.


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## Irwin

The Packers/Saints game this evening was highly entertaining.


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## Don M.

I just finished watching the KC Chiefs vs. the Baltimore Ravens.  The Las Vegas oddsmakers had Baltimore winning by 6 points, but the Chiefs won 34 to 20....and except for a couple of "lapses" on the part of the KC defense, the score would have been quite lopsided.  If the Chiefs can maintain their efforts, the way they have performed in their first 3 games, they may well make the Super Bowl, again....we are hoping.


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## Irwin

Don M. said:


> I just finished watching the KC Chiefs vs. the Baltimore Ravens.  The Las Vegas oddsmakers had Baltimore winning by 6 points, but the Chiefs won 34 to 20....and except for a couple of "lapses" on the part of the KC defense, the score would have been quite lopsided.  If the Chiefs can maintain their efforts, the way they have performed in their first 3 games, they may well make the Super Bowl, again....we are hoping.



Yeah, I wanted to watch that, but it's on frickin' ESPN, which I don't get. No Monday night football for me. Meh, there are other things to do.


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## fmdog44

The only way the Chiefs aren't going to the Super Bowl is if there isn't one.


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## Don M.

fmdog44 said:


> The only way the Chiefs aren't going to the Super Bowl is if there isn't one.



I hope you are right.  The Chiefs QB, Patrick Mahomes, is the most entertaining athlete I've seen, in years.


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## DaveA

I didn't catch last night's game but agree on Mahomes.  I'm amazed at how accurate his passes are, while throwing on the run.


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## AnnieA

Record setting first SEC week for my Mississippi State Bulldogs.  Transfer quarterback KJ Costello broke all time passing records for a SEC game.  He threw for 623 yards to lead the Bulldogs to a 44-34 victory over LSU. 

Costello's post game interview is great!  He explains a little about how he got from Stanford to Mississippi State.  I hope someday he writes about his experiences as a Californian moving from a top rated university to Mississippi in crazy 2020, esp given that his degree from Stanford is political science. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1310004716248547330

.


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## Irwin

fmdog44 said:


> The only way the Chiefs aren't going to the Super Bowl is if there isn't one.



I watched the highlights from the Chiefs/Ravens game and I'd have to agree with you. They completely dominated the Ravens, and the Ravens are a good team!


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## jerry old

With the college and pros playing  'air ball' scoring 50 something points and the defense lagging so far behind-the game has changed.
It takes the defense 2 years to counter new offense tactics-it been over five years and the defenses have yet to find a deterrent.

The pros wanted 'air ball' as it is more exciting than 'three yards and a cloud of dust,' now they have it.
College and the Pros mimic any successful game plan.

I guess it is exciting, but I would really like to see some defensive teams-The Ravens are the best defensive team in the Pros, as you'll
saw, they could not stop Mahomes.


----------



## DaveA

Jerry stated (and I agree);
"The pros wanted 'air ball' as it is more exciting than 'three yards and a cloud of dust,' now they have it.
College and the Pros mimic any successful game plan."

College football is a joke in today's world. Fun to follow and watch but let's be honest.  It's no longer students playing football.  It's more like minor league football players occasionally attending some BS classes (in some cases) to allow them to continue their tryouts for the NFL.

Take a look at the real cream of the college academic world and their sports activities are far below the college football powers that spend millions on coaches and facilities.  Some of the annual "powerhouses" depend on the football  entertainment dollar to partially fund their school  budgets .

And the new "air ball" game could be easily tempered by a few rule changes regarding pass interference.  Now, if behind, late in the game, teams just throw long bombs hoping to draw a pass interference penalty which is as good as a completed pass.  Some receivers should also get acting awards  for their PI performances. 

Baseball has minor leagues, why not call college ball what it has actually become - -minor league football?


----------



## AnnieA

DaveA said:


> Baseball has minor leagues, why not call college ball what it has actually become - -minor league football?



Baseball minor leagues exist because kids go straight from high school to the minors; MLB doesn't require college attendance like the NBA and NFL.   I'd like to see the pros drop all college requirements for football and basketball and have the kids that want to bypass college go into minors. Then basketball and football players who actually care about college will attend just as college baseball players do.   Many college baseball players turn down millions out of high school and choose college instead.  It's not a coincidence that college baseball recruitment is much more ethical than football and basketball.


----------



## jerry old

Athleticism is, for the most part an innate ability.  Athletic ability can be coached, refined, but the physical ability has to be there.
College is a training ground for the NFL.  If we discount the actually money the athletics  receive, we still have to count receiving
a college education.  Is this comparable to the salary minor league baseball players earn?
Yes it is and a lot more.

Many  quit after their football eligibility is met, and those that do receive degrees major in PE.
The idea of paying college football players has been recommend again and again, it won't fly.

Let use not forget that colleges have basketball and baseball teams.
Football and basketball are the minor leagues for the pros.
There are exceptions, but few...

Finally hitting a round ball with a round bat remains the most difficult accomplishment in sports.
If you can do it 1/3 of the time, you will be a wealthy man.

The NFL won the TV wars, we do like to see people knocked on their butts.


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 3 of the NFL Season     *Pt 1 of 2
Fourth quarter leads were far from safe in a week where GBay, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, Seattle and Chicago - yes, the Bears - improved to 3-0.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman, Sept. 27, 2020 (_edited for length by Lethe200)_

*QB Josh Allen plays a remarkably physical game for a QB. *The Bills raced to a huge lead, but the team’s D - and the officials - let the LA Rams back into the game. Allen showed some of his worst tendencies along the way. He threw an interception on an ill-advised throw (that should have been overruled by officials), he fumbled away a drive and he was constantly running away from Rams defenders. On a memorable game-winning drive, however, he took a huge sack, was called for unsportsmanlike conduct when he face-masked a defender, converted a third-and-22, and threw incomplete on fourth-and-8 with less than a minute to play, seemingly ending the game. A pass interference call gave the Bills new life, and the good version of Allen suddenly reappeared, throwing a 3-yard TD pass to Tyler Kroft to win the game.

Allen has thrown for at least 300 yds in all three games this season after not doing it a single time over his first two seasons.

*Russell Wilson might need his own cooking show. *For years, fans of the Seahawks implored Coach Pete Carroll to “Let Russ Cook.” The conservative coach seems to have finally gotten the message, and Wilson is no longer being held back in a run-focused attack. He followed up last week’s five-TD performance against New England with another five against Dallas - including a 29-yard go-ahead score to D.K. Metcalf with 1:47 left in the game - and now has 14 in the first three weeks of the season, breaking Patrick Mahomes’s NFL record of 13, which was set in 2018.

*The Vikings needed former All-Pro cornerback Xavier Rhodes more than he needed them.* It’s hard to not be wistful for Vikings’ past defenses when now- Indianapolis Colts Rhodes had a monster day, pulling down two interceptions and returning one of them 44 yds for a TD.

*There is still nothing more demoralizing than Aaron Rodgers’s hard count.* With GBay clinging to a 3-point lead over the Saints late in Q4, Rodgers used his signature hard count to draw Demario Davis offside. Once Rodgers had earned a free play, the veteran took his time in the pocket, found a receiver in the end zone and launched a perfect pass. Saints cornerback Janoris Jenkins was left with no other choice than to blatantly interfere with Allen Lazard, setting the Packers up at the 1-yard line, where a few plays later they scored the insurance TD they needed in an eventual 37-30 victory.

*Mike Evans is nothing if not efficient.* Tampa Bay’s supersize WR had a line for the ages: 2-2-2 (two catches for 2 yds and two TDs). He’s the third player since 1950 to have such a day, according to Pro Football Reference, joining Lee Folkins of the Cowboys in 1963, and Howard Cross of the Giants in 1994. Evans’s efficiency helped power Tom Brady’s best passing game (297 yds, three TDs, no interceptions) since Week 1 of last season.

*The NFL should consider relegation. *The 49ers were playing without their starters at QB, RB, WR, TE and center, and their defense was missing two defensive ends and its top cornerback. Led by the forgettable trio of third-stringers QB Nick Mullens and RB Jerick McKinnon and rookie WR Brandon Aiyuk, the 49ers somehow beat the Saquon Barkley-less Giants, 36-9, on the road. SF just might get through this injury mess unscathed thanks to a remarkably soft schedule. After wins over the Jets and the Giants, the 49ers face the struggling Eagles and the middling Dolphins. The Giants, OTOH, appear to be hapless, and seem a strong contender for ending up with the NFL’s worst record.

*Sunday’s Top Performers

Top Passer: Russell Wilson. *Wilson has reached the point in his career where if he has the ball, his team is within a score and there is any time left on the clock, you simply assume he’s going to win. He did just that on Sunday, outlasting Dak Prescott in a shootout in which the stars combined for 787 passing yds and eight TDs.

*Top Runner: Derrick Henry. *After leading the NFL in rushing yds last season, and carrying nearly the entire load in Tennessee’s playoff run, there was some fear of a drop-off from Henry this season. Thus far, he’s up to 319 yds through three games - 109 more than he had at the same point last season - and his two TDs on Sunday were crucial as Ryan Tannehill couldn’t find the end zone and threw his first interception of the season.

Dalvin Cook’s huge yardage day was spoiled with a fumble and his team’s loss, and Sony Michel’s incredible 13 yds a carry certainly warrants mentioning, but no player’s running was more important to a win than Henry’s.

*Top Receiver: Tyler Lockett. *Lockett scored TDs on a 43-yarder, and twice on goal-line plays. He finished the day with nine catches for 100 yds.


----------



## Lethe200

_*Pt 2/2, plus a longer summary on the Monday Night game Chiefs vs Ravens*_

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games * _(*Except when it takes more.)_
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman, Sept. 27, 2020 (_edited for length by Lethe200)_ 

*Seahawks 38, Cowboys 31.* Dak Prescott kept up with Russell Wilson for nearly the entire game, throwing for 472 yds - his second straight game with 450 or more yds passing - and three TDs, but after getting Dallas as close as the Seattle 22-yard line on his team’s final possession, he scrambled around before throwing an interception in the end zone that cost his team a potential upset.

*Bills 35, Rams 32.* LA controlled the time of possession, had a 103-yard advantage in total yds, took all the second-half momentum as they erased a 28-3 deficit, and then they lost. Maybe this season isn’t so different from last season for the Rams, who seem to have used up all their good luck during the 2018 regular season.

*Packers 37, Saints 30.* GBay’s streak of 40-point games ended at two, but the Packers have still set a franchise record with 122 points through the first three weeks of the season.

*Patriots 36, Raiders 20.* New England ran what amounted to a modified version of the Air Raid offense during Tom Brady’s best seasons, but the Patriots are loving running the ball thus far in the Cam Newton era, with 250 rushing yds on Sunday - the second time they have gone over 200 this season. They dedicated the run-heavy win to RB James White, who missed a second consecutive game after the death of his father.

*Steelers 28, Texans 21.* At halftime in Pittsburgh it looked like an upset could be brewing, with Deshaun Watson having no trouble scoring against the Steelers’ vaunted defense. In the second half, Houston managed just 51 yds and two first downs.

*Titans 31, Vikings 30.* Derrick Henry chewing up yardage, Ryan Tannehill finding room to work downfield, Tennessee’s defense looking absolutely useless and Stephen Gostkowski trotting onto the field in the final two minutes to win the game with a field goal. It’s a bit like “Groundhog Day,” but it’s also a recipe that has worked just fine for the Titans in all three games this season. Unfortunately, nine Titan players/staff have tested positive for COVID-19, so Week 4’s game vs Steelers has been postponed.

*Buccaneers 28, Broncos 10.* There wasn’t much hope for a decent game once Denver starting QB Drew Lock was injured last week - his backup, Jeff Driskel, was pulled in the second half, leading to snaps for third-stringer Brett Rypien. Tampa’s Tom Brady made it a laugher. That Brady looked young again in a game in which Rob Gronkowski shook off the rust was not a coincidence.

*Colts 36, Jets 7.* Philip Rivers joined Drew Brees (553), Tom Brady (547), Peyton Manning (539), Brett Favre (508) and Dan Marino (420) as the only players in NFL history with 400 or more career passing TDs.

*49ers 36, Giants 9.* The most interesting aspect of a game in which SF’s practice squad embarrassed the Giants’ starters in New Jersey was the fact that it was a Scorigami, i.e., it was the first time this score has happened in a game - the 1,056th unique score in NFL history.

*Bears 30, Falcons 26.* The Mitchell Trubisky experiment is likely over. Trubisky was pulled for ineffectiveness against Atlanta, and Foles engineered a thrilling comeback with three TD passes in the fourth quarter. For Atlanta, a second straight week with an epic collapse could have Coach Dan Quinn on the hot seat.

*Lions 26, Cardinals 23.* In retrospect, predicting a 5-0 start for Arizona may have been a rash decision. The win for Detroit snapped an 11-game losing streak.

*Panthers 21, Chargers 16.* Despite playing without RB Christian McCaffrey, Carolina won for the first time since Week 9 of last season, ending a 10-game losing streak. And while Justin Herbert lost again, the rookie threw for 330 yds, becoming just the fifth player to have 300 or more in each of his first two starts.

*Browns 34, Footballers 20.* Washington kept things fairly close for three quarters, but Cleveland asserted itself in the fourth, Nick Chubb continued to thrive and the Browns (2-1) have a winning record for the first time since 2014.

*Bengals 23, Eagles 23 (OT*). A 59-yard field goal is hardly a gimme, but Philadelphia guard Matt Pryor has to be blaming himself for his team’s failure to win after his false start late in overtime took away Jake Elliott’s chance at hitting what would have been a game-winner.

*Monday Night: CHIEFS 34, RAVENS 20

Patrick Mahomes Flexes Chiefs’ Muscle to Beat the Ravens. *The Chiefs’ star beat his Ravens rival Lamar Jackson for the third time, showing off an efficient and varied offense as Kansas City moved to 3-0.

Mahomes completed 31 of 42 passes for 385 yards and four touchdowns. By rushing for his team’s first score, he had a direct hand in all five Kansas City touchdowns. He turned what was supposed to be a showdown between two of the league’s best teams led by two of the league’s best QBs into another reminder of how far he is ahead of his peers.

“You have to take your hat off to Patrick Mahomes,” Ravens DE Calais Campbell said. “Right now, they play like the best team in the league.”

Mahomes has now beaten Jackson in all three of their head-to-head matchups since 2018. In his young career as a starting QB, Jackson is now 0-3 against the Chiefs and 21-1 against every other team in the league during the regular season. It was the Ravens’ first regular-season loss in a year.

The Chiefs went up, 27-10, with less than three minutes left in the first half. The Ravens’ lone touchdown in the half came on a 93-yard kickoff return. For much of the game, the Ravens looked flustered. Jackson ran for 83 yards but ended up with 97 yards passing on only 15 completions and one TD pass. His receivers didn’t help. The usually sure-handed TE Mark Andrews couldn’t pull in one of Jackson’s passes in Q3.

Still, the Ravens crept closer after two KC miscues in Q3 - a fumble led to a FG; then a defensive stop on fourth down gave them the ball at midfield. On the resulting drive, Jackson took the Ravens down the field and hit TE Nick Boyle to cut the Chiefs’ lead to 27-20.

But Mahomes brought them right back, throwing his final TD pass to Fisher, an OT who lined up as an eligible receiver. As Mahomes jogged off the field, he counted to four with the fingers on his right hand to signify how many TD passes he had thrown.


----------



## jerry old

I thought the Ravens would make the game with Mahomes a dog fight-nope.


----------



## Lethe200

After watching Mahomes in his rookie year, I was convinced this kid was one of the greatest football talents I have ever seen, and I have been watching the NFL since before the Super Bowl was invented.

If he doesn't get injured, he is far and away the best QB right now. KC may not stay on top for long - free agency, retirements, injuries, and the salary cap combine to make that almost impossible - but we are all truly fortunate as fans to be watching the game at a time when there are so many genuinely great players currently active.


----------



## DaveA

Did I read that correctly?  Rob Gronkowski is active again, teamed up with Brady??


----------



## JustBonee

DaveA said:


> Did I read that correctly?  Rob Gronkowski is active again, teamed up with Brady??


----------



## DaveA

Sorry -attachment didn't post??


----------



## jerry old

Bonnie, i think your a Browns fan-
They have come out ripping and snorting, but that will come to a end when they meet the Cowboys.    

Now, the Cowboys and the often repeated phrase 'On any given Sunday,' ,,, On most Sundays the Boy's search for a way to lose.`

Long time Cowboy fans are used to their losing ways, they will 'blub and dub,'  in new and exciting ways.
We watch with arched eyebrows-waiting.
Their epitaph reads: 'We will lose, but we lose so well.'


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Week 4 Predictions: Our Picks Against the Spread*
Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs face NE, the Bears try to continue their improbable start and Tennessee’s matchup with Pittsburgh has been delayed until Week 7 due to COVID.
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman, Oct. 1, 2020 (_edited for length by Lethe200)_

*Thursday’s Matchup: Broncos 37, Jets 28*
There was plenty of sloppy play on both sides, but the Broncos (1-3) found themselves clinging to a 2-point lead with just over two minutes to play. Their D did its part, forcing a turnover on downs with a huge sack from Bradley Chubb. Then their offense finished the job on the first play of the ensuing drive, with RB Melvin Gordon III bouncing off some contact in the backfield before breaking outside for a 43-yard TD run and an insurmountable lead.

The win capped a wild day for Brett Rypien (ex-Washington QB Mark’s nephew)  in which the young QB, in his first career start, had some high and low points, but likely earned a lifetime’s supply of respect from his teammates by racing down the field to deliver a block that helped Gordon score.

NYT picked the Jets (0-4) assuming Denver’s injuries would be a larger issue, but after losing this eminently winnable game, it is questionable if Gang Green can beat anyone.

*Sunday’s Best Games

NE Patriots at KC Chiefs, 4:25 p.m., CBS
Pick: Chiefs*
No shortage of enthusiasm for the Chiefs (3-0) after KC brushed off mighty Ravens. The question is if Cam Newton/Patriots (2-1) are a big enough threat to bring out the best in KC or will the Chiefs will relax too much?

In many ways, NE appears to be set up as well as anyone to compete with KC. Its secondary is strong, where cornerback Stephon Gilmore might be able to reasonably contain KC WR Tyreek Hill. Its offense is heavily run-focused, which is a weak point for the Chiefs defense: one that Baltimore bizarrely couldn’t exploit enough last week.

But Mahomes has had some tough luck against teams led by Coach Bill Belichick in the past, and if the young QB wants to prove a point, he will.

*LA Chargers at TBay Buccaneers, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Chargers
It’s good to be the Bucs (2-1). Tom Brady is settling in and the team’s D has proven a force. An injury to WR Chris Godwin takes away some offensive upside, but TBay seems like a playoff team: one that might struggle against the elites, but can handle middling teams just fine.

The Chargers (1-2) likely also view themselves as a playoff team, but while there will be plenty of focus on whether Tyrod Taylor or Justin Herbert will start at QB this week, the larger concern is on defense, where LA expects to be without DE Melvin Ingram, DT Justin Jones and CB Chris Harris Jr. That could lead to more time for Brady to throw, and more room for WR Mike Evans to get open. The potential is there for a TBay blowout, but a narrower win should be expected.

*Indianapolis Colts at Chicago Bears, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Colts
The Colts (2-1) followed their embarrassing Week 1 loss to Jacksonville with a pair of convincing victories over fairly weak competition. That qualifies as a good start, and is more sustainable than the Bears perfect record (3-0). Rarely has a team seemed so unjustifiably undefeated, but Chicago has been bizarrely magical in Q4. Thanks to Khalil Mack, Tashaun Gipson and the Bears’ D, Chicago has outscored its opponents by 41-10 in Q4 this season.

Last week’s come-from-behind win over Atlanta convinced the Bears to put Nick Foles in at QB. But the Colts aren’t as likely to collapse like Detroit and Atlanta did.

*Buffalo Bills at Las Vegas Raiders, 4:25 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Bills
What in the world is going on with the Bills’ (3-0) D? Almost all the stout 2019 crew returned, yet they’ve looked terrible despite the undefeated start. They’ve allowed 25.7 points and 380 yds per game, and those numbers don’t appear to be fluky, as Football Outsiders has them ranked 24th in their catchall DVOA metric.

Their success owes to the emergence of QB Josh Allen, who has thrown for at least 300 yds in each game and has an absurd passer rating of 124.8, now that he’s got a true target in Stefon Diggs. But if Buffalo is going to keep this strong start going and win a road game against the fairly decent Raiders (2-1) the D will have to figure things out.


----------



## Lethe200

*Pt 2 of 2: NY Times, Sunday’s Other Games Week 4

Baltimore Ravens at Washington Football Team, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Ravens
Lamar Jackson and the Ravens (2-1) have lost a grand total of four regular-season games over the last three seasons. As three of those four losses came against Patrick Mahomes, who is unlikely to suit up for the Footballers (1-2), a Baltimore win seems fairly predictable. Will they justify the two-TD spread? It’s possible.

*Minnesota Vikings at Houston Texans, 1 p.m. Fox*
Pick: Texans
A battle of two winless teams. The Vikes are at the bottom of the NFC North. Houston is at the bottom of the AFC South. The Texans have a chance to expunge their frustrations on one of the worst defenses in the NFL. Deshaun Watson averages 8.3 yds per pass attempt, ranking eighth in the NFL, with four TDs and three interceptions. The Texans need to stop the Vikes’ RB Cook and WR Jefferson.

*Philadelphia Eagles at SF 49ers, 8:20 p.m., NBC*
Pick: 49ers
The 49ers (2-1) are still The Walking Wounded. And the injury report added RB Jerick McKinnon (ribs) and CB Emmanuel Moseley (concussion). In SF’s favor, TE George Kittle and RB Deebo Samuel were activated. The Eagles (0-2-1) are playing so poorly they’ll likely lose to SF even with Nick Mullens and the Expendables on the field for a second consecutive week. But with SF starters Garoppolo, Mostert, McKinnon, Bosa, Ford, Sherman, and Moseley out, Philly might only lose by a FG or two.

*Cleveland Browns at Dallas Cowboys, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Browns
The Cowboys (1-2) have played three incredibly exciting games. But they’ve lost two of them, which looks bad for HC Mike McCarthy. Dak Prescott’s 1,188 passing yds are the fifth-most a player has ever had through three weeks. But Cowboys’ opponents are averaging 404.7 yds per game while scoring an average of 32.3 points per game.

The Browns (2-1) can get to 3-1 for the first time since 2001 with a big day from QB Baker Mayfield or RB Nick Chubb. Dallas should be favored, but this could come down to who has the ball last.

*Arizona Cardinals at Carolina Panthers, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Cardinals
Despite a surprising loss to Detroit last week, the Cardinals (2-1) have a serious offense. QB Kyler Murray is a budding star and the steal of WR DeAndre Hopkins looks better every day. Hopkins is leading the NFL with 32 catches for 356 yds. The Panthers (1-2) are hampered by the absence of RB Christian McCaffrey. While Carolina won on the road last week, that was the result of turnovers that the Cardinals are unlikely to give them.

*Seattle Seahawks at Miami Dolphins, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Dolphins
The Seahawks (3-0) are undefeated despite their D allowing almost 500 yds a game. QB Russell Wilson is outplaying even Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson so far. Wilson has an NFL-record 14 TD passes through three weeks and would have 15 had not DK Metcalf lost track of Dallas’ Trevon Diggs behind him just before the goal line.

The Dolphins (1-2) had a nice long break after their huge win over Jacksonville on Thursday Week 3. Ryan Fitzpatrick is unpredictable, prone to mistakes; but he is likely excited to test Seattle’s D. A shootout still favors the Seahawks, but the score could be close. One plus for Fitz: All-Pro safety Jamal Adams/Seattle is out with a groin injury.

*New Orleans Saints at Detroit Lions, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Lions
Shock: both teams are 1-2. Another shock: Saints have allowed 31.3 points a game. The D is good against the run but has struggled against the pass. The Lions (1-2) come off an upset of AZ and might be a fight. With Saints WR Michael Thomas out, the Lions could be an upset.

*Giants at LA Rams, 4:05 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Rams
The Rams (2-1) are smarting from a wild ride last week: being blown out 28-3, then roaring back to take a Q4 lead, only to have Buffalo’s Josh Allen rip out their hearts in the final seconds. Crushing the spirit of the Giants (0-3) in retaliation is unlikely, as the Giants’ spirit may already be permanently depressed by a humiliating loss to the 49ers’ backups (and backups of the backups) last week. There’s no question that LAR could win this game by 12+ if they wanted to make a point, but expect a slightly narrower margin.

*Jacksonville Jaguars at Cincinnati Bengals, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Bengals
At a glance, the Jaguars passing D (1-2) looks bad - they’re ranked 19th in total passing yds allowed - but if you delve in deeper things are much worse. They are allowing an NFL-worst 118.6 passer rating, have only three sacks over three games and according to Football Outsiders, are the least efficient unit by a country mile, making even the Jets seem competent by comparison.

Enter Joe Burrow of the Bengals (0-2-1) who nonetheless has 628 yds passing, five TDs and no interceptions over his last two starts. Rookies are unpredictable, and the Jaguars’ offense isn’t as bad as it looked last week, but Cincinnati is a rightful favorite.

*Monday’s Matchup
Atlanta Falcons at GBay Packers, 8:15 p.m., ESPN*
Pick: Packers

Rodgers has a reputation as a QB who rises to the biggest moments, and he’s had some memorable games in prime time. Surprisingly, his Monday career record is 9-8. He is actually strongest in the 4p Eastern time games on Sundays, when his career record is an incredible 32-11.

The Monday record will probably improve to 10-8. Rodgers looks comfortable in HC Matt LaFleur’s offense. The Packers have more points through three games (122) than any other team in GBay history. Put that offense up against the Falcons (0-3), who have looked terrible on D and have blown enormous leads in back-to-back weeks. But a game at home against a lowly opponent might lure the GBay offense to relax. A win should be expected, but maybe not a full blow-out.


----------



## DaveA

Report on TV says that cam Newton tested positive for Covid and will be out for (at least) this week's game. Looks like a blow-out for the Chiefs and may spell the end of New England's streak of winning seasons.


----------



## JustBonee

DaveA said:


> Report on TV says that cam Newton tested positive for Covid and will be out for (at least) this week's game. Looks like a blow-out for the Chiefs and may spell the end of New England's streak of winning seasons.



And Titans seem to have several players with it now.  Covid is creeping across the NFL.


----------



## Lethe200

Update: Chiefs-Patriots game postponed after members on *both *teams test positive for COVID-19, NFL announcement 03Oct2020:

Patriots-Chiefs postponed after multiple positive COVID-19 tests


----------



## jerry old

This baseball season was a farce due to the plague

We have the college games, any though of postponing the season fell by the wayside.
The  football factories wouldn't have it!
There more exciting than the pros, but we've become so used to our
Sunday afternoons with our pro ball, we would really miss it.

I really think all team sports should have been canceled for the good of the nation; I wouldn't like it, but think it should be done.
The owners will open their stadiums to more and more capacity and we will go- plague or no plague!


----------



## jerry old

Boy's are working on how to  give the ball to their opponents, practiced last week, continue with Browns today-did good...
The Dallas Cowboy's Circus  continues, complete with pratfalls, big flobby shoes... 

NFC East is pitiful
Eagles-pitiful
Redskins-pitiful
Giants-pitiful
The forth team is unmentionable-the clowns


----------



## jerry old

Goggle is uncertain whether Cam Newton will play tonight.
If they can delay the game for a few days, why can't they delay it for a few weeks---Because it is on Monday Night Football and the contract ($$$$)
will be honored.


----------



## Lethe200

Re Chiefs vs Patriots game:
Since Cam didn't play, back-up Brian Hoyer was QB for the Patriots. He certainly showed why he isn't a first string QB any longer. Started off okay, but couldn't close the deal in the red zone on multiple occasions. 

And the interceptions! They were almost as painful as the ones Niners backup QB Nick Mullens was throwing on Sunday. Total drive killers.

Made you want to ask those guys, "Okay, who did you THINK you were throwing the ball to?"


----------



## Don M.

I've become a pretty avid Chiefs fan since Mahomes became the quarterback....he is really entertaining.  I'm hoping the Chiefs can have a season as good as last year, and make it to the Superbowl again.


----------



## Lethe200

*Bill O’Brien Wasn’t the Only Coach Presiding Over a Bad Start*
Houston fired O’Brien, its HC and general manager, on Monday after four straight losses. Three N.F.C. teams also have to turn their seasons around.
NY Times by Ben Shpigel Oct. 6, 2020

There was once a home in Houston. It teemed with amenities, and on the outside it shimmered. But inside, termites gnawed at the floors, a sewage pipe neared bursting and structural issues diminished its value.

The Texans are that home. And the caretaker - and architect - was Bill O’Brien, who was fired on Monday for letting it lapse into disrepair. The projects O’Brien favored over the past 16 months turned the Texans from the envy of their neighborhood into a fixer-upper blighted by weeds in the yard.

As a leading voice in personnel matters and the team’s GM, O’Brien flipped premium draft picks in several deals. He dealt one of the NFL’s best receivers, DeAndre Hopkins, to Arizona for a pittance. As the Texans’ coach, O’Brien guided them to four AFC South titles in his first six years but a winless start to this season through four games.

The final indignity came Sunday, when the Texans lost, 31-23, at home to Minnesota after defeats to the conference behemoths KC, Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Only the Jets and Giants, who were expected to be dreadful this season (and are), have worse scoring differentials than the Texans’ minus-46.

At their apex, the Texans boasted Hopkins, defensive ends Jadeveon Clowney and J.J. Watt, safety Tyrann Mathieu and the cornerstone QB Deshaun Watson - stars who positioned them for potential glory. The Texans are left with only Watt and Watson, who have watched the team’s depth and quality erode around them, especially since blowing a 24-point lead to KC in the playoffs after the 2019 season.

The front office mortgaged the future by compromising draft capital. Houston didn’t make a first-round pick in 2020 and doesn’t have a first- or second-rounder in 2021. It subsequently depleted the roster of young talent on team-friendly contracts. Trading Hopkins and a 2020 fourth-round pick, for RB David Johnson, a 2020 second-round pick and a 2021 fourth-rounder, left Watson without a dominant No. 1 receiver in a league that prioritizes passing. Collectively, the moves ratchet up the difficulty for O’Brien’s successor as general manager, who must figure out a way to maximize Watson’s prime while gaining more financial flexibility.

Even if the timing of O’Brien’s dismissal is peculiar - ownership empowered him to expend precious draft picks, award over-market extensions and contracts and also deal Hopkins, but then fired him just four losses into this pandemic-afflicted season in which a seventh team from each conference now makes the playoffs - the Texans, at least, have a head start on vetting possible replacements.

The associate HC Romeo Crennel, a former HC with Cleveland and KC, will coach the Texans for the remainder of the season. In a league where about three-quarters of the players are people of color but most coaches and executives are white, Crennel, who is Black, raises the number of nonwhite HCs to five.

Around the NFL, owners of struggling teams must decide whether to follow Houston’s example or trust their coaches to accomplish what O’Brien could not do well enough this season: spackle the holes. Here are three other places where the season has turned ugly already:

*Atlanta (0-4)*
The play that inspired a thousand memes - the staring contest as the Cowboys’ onside kick in Week 2 just rolled on by - encapsulates the scope of Atlanta’s despair. It is hard to win in the NFL, but the Falcons make it needlessly so. Their defensive collapses reflect poorly on their defensive-minded coach, Dan Quinn, who, heading into Monday night’s game at GBay (a 30-16 loss), had presided over six of the 15 worst blown leads in franchise history. Two came in consecutive weeks - 20 points at Dallas, 16 against Chicago - while the other came in some big game, a Super Bowl or something, a few years back. The Falcons’ owner, Arthur Blank, is a patient man, but his tolerance for infuriating performances has to be waning.

*Detroit (1-3)*
The Lions are the NFC North version of the Falcons, just cloaked in Honolulu blue and without the Super Bowl calamity. The coach, Matt Patricia, took over a nine-win team after the 2017 season, and under his stewardship the Lions, 10-25-1 in his tenure, have gotten worse every year. They lost by 6 points to New Orleans on Sunday, which wouldn’t seem so terrible except they led by 14 in the first quarter and then went on to trail by 14 at halftime. Do you know how mind-bendingly difficult that is to do? According to the Elias Sports Bureau, that’s happened only three other times in league history.

The Lions tend to traffic in the absurd. They lost to Chicago in Week 1 after both blowing a 17-point fourth-quarter lead and dropping the potential game-winning TD in the end zone with six seconds left - and considering the sorry state of their defense, they’re unlikely to morph into situational masters anytime soon. If they do, Patricia might not be around to witness it.

*Dallas (1-3)*
Another autumn tradition is unfurling in North Texas, just with a different coach: the Cowboys under Mike McCarthy are proving their whole is less than the sum of their parts. The Cowboys have (by far) the most talented roster in a gruesome NFC East, as they often did under Jason Garrett, But despite a QB on pace to throw for roughly eleventy billion yds and the league’s best receiving corps, they are a successful watermelon kick away from being 0-4, having surrendered a league-high 146 points.

They miss their best linebacker, Leighton Vander Esch, who is injured. Another linebacker, Jaylon Smith, has struggled. Their secondary, weakened by the off-season departure of cornerback Byron Jones, has allowed 12 TD passes, second only to Atlanta. On Sunday, in a 49-38 loss to Cleveland, the Cowboys ceded their most rushing yds (307) in franchise history. That is a staggering statistic. So is this: Dak Prescott has thrown for 1,690 yds. At this rate he’ll surpass the single-season record of 5,477, set in 2013 by Peyton Manning, in Week 14 – but with three games left.

Will it happen? Probably not. Can it? If the Cowboys’ defense continues to crater (and it very well will unless McCarthy and the defensive coordinator Mike Nolan can resolve the unit’s deficiencies), forcing Prescott to engage in Big 12-esque aerial displays merely to keep up; then sure, absolutely, chaos is fun.


----------



## jerry old

There is and has been something wrong in Dallas for many years.  
We can blame Jerry Jones, but there is plenty of blame left over.
As a fan, you watch your team week -after- week, same old inefficiencies, same old problems.
The coaches have to be smarter than us-Right?

(Dallas is not the only team with perpetual problems.)


----------



## jerry old

New England Fans:
They've been on top too long.  I like to see a team of excellence, a delight to watch, but it is time for other teams to contest for the throne.

Brady: We will see just how much difference a QB makes.  Buc's in playoff, yes, NFC division champs, errrr no. 
 Super Bowl-not a chance.


----------



## Lethe200

Due to COVID positives, *here's the scheduling changes for Week 5 *(as of Fri 10/9):

The Denver Broncos at New England Patriots game will be played on Monday, Oct. 12 at 5 p.m.
The Buffalo Bills at Tennessee Titans game will be played on Tuesday, Oct. 13 at 7 p.m.
Should the Buffalo-Tennessee game be played on Tuesday night, the Week 6 Kansas City Chiefs at Buffalo Bills game scheduled for Thursday, Oct. 15 will be moved to later in the weekend.


----------



## JustBonee

Lethe200 said:


> *Bill O’Brien Wasn’t the Only Coach Presiding Over a Bad Start*
> Houston fired O’Brien, its HC and general manager, on Monday after four straight losses. Three N.F.C. teams also have to turn their seasons around.
> NY Times by Ben Shpigel Oct. 6, 2020
> 
> There was once a home in Houston. It teemed with amenities, and on the outside it shimmered. But inside, termites gnawed at the floors, a sewage pipe neared bursting and structural issues diminished its value.
> 
> The Texans are that home. And the caretaker - and architect - was Bill O’Brien, who was fired on Monday for letting it lapse into disrepair. The projects O’Brien favored over the past 16 months turned the Texans from the envy of their neighborhood into a fixer-upper blighted by weeds in the yard.
> 
> As a leading voice in personnel matters and the team’s GM, O’Brien flipped premium draft picks in several deals. He dealt one of the NFL’s best receivers, DeAndre Hopkins, to Arizona for a pittance. As the Texans’ coach, O’Brien guided them to four AFC South titles in his first six years but a winless start to this season through four games.
> 
> The final indignity came Sunday, when the Texans lost, 31-23, at home to Minnesota after defeats to the conference behemoths KC, Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Only the Jets and Giants, who were expected to be dreadful this season (and are), have worse scoring differentials than the Texans’ minus-46.
> 
> At their apex, the Texans boasted Hopkins, defensive ends Jadeveon Clowney and J.J. Watt, safety Tyrann Mathieu and the cornerstone QB Deshaun Watson - stars who positioned them for potential glory. The Texans are left with only Watt and Watson, who have watched the team’s depth and quality erode around them, especially since blowing a 24-point lead to KC in the playoffs after the 2019 season.
> 
> The front office mortgaged the future by compromising draft capital. Houston didn’t make a first-round pick in 2020 and doesn’t have a first- or second-rounder in 2021. It subsequently depleted the roster of young talent on team-friendly contracts. Trading Hopkins and a 2020 fourth-round pick, for RB David Johnson, a 2020 second-round pick and a 2021 fourth-rounder, left Watson without a dominant No. 1 receiver in a league that prioritizes passing. Collectively, the moves ratchet up the difficulty for O’Brien’s successor as general manager, who must figure out a way to maximize Watson’s prime while gaining more financial flexibility.
> 
> Even if the timing of O’Brien’s dismissal is peculiar - ownership empowered him to expend precious draft picks, award over-market extensions and contracts and also deal Hopkins, but then fired him just four losses into this pandemic-afflicted season in which a seventh team from each conference now makes the playoffs - the Texans, at least, have a head start on vetting possible replacements.
> 
> The associate HC Romeo Crennel, a former HC with Cleveland and KC, will coach the Texans for the remainder of the season. In a league where about three-quarters of the players are people of color but most coaches and executives are white, Crennel, who is Black, raises the number of nonwhite HCs to five.
> 
> Around the NFL, owners of struggling teams must decide whether to follow Houston’s example or trust their coaches to accomplish what O’Brien could not do well enough this season: spackle the holes. Here are three other places where the season has turned ugly already:
> 
> *Atlanta (0-4)*
> The play that inspired a thousand memes - the staring contest as the Cowboys’ onside kick in Week 2 just rolled on by - encapsulates the scope of Atlanta’s despair. It is hard to win in the NFL, but the Falcons make it needlessly so. Their defensive collapses reflect poorly on their defensive-minded coach, Dan Quinn, who, heading into Monday night’s game at GBay (a 30-16 loss), had presided over six of the 15 worst blown leads in franchise history. Two came in consecutive weeks - 20 points at Dallas, 16 against Chicago - while the other came in some big game, a Super Bowl or something, a few years back. The Falcons’ owner, Arthur Blank, is a patient man, but his tolerance for infuriating performances has to be waning.
> 
> *Detroit (1-3)*
> The Lions are the NFC North version of the Falcons, just cloaked in Honolulu blue and without the Super Bowl calamity. The coach, Matt Patricia, took over a nine-win team after the 2017 season, and under his stewardship the Lions, 10-25-1 in his tenure, have gotten worse every year. They lost by 6 points to New Orleans on Sunday, which wouldn’t seem so terrible except they led by 14 in the first quarter and then went on to trail by 14 at halftime. Do you know how mind-bendingly difficult that is to do? According to the Elias Sports Bureau, that’s happened only three other times in league history.
> 
> The Lions tend to traffic in the absurd. They lost to Chicago in Week 1 after both blowing a 17-point fourth-quarter lead and dropping the potential game-winning TD in the end zone with six seconds left - and considering the sorry state of their defense, they’re unlikely to morph into situational masters anytime soon. If they do, Patricia might not be around to witness it.
> 
> *Dallas (1-3)*
> Another autumn tradition is unfurling in North Texas, just with a different coach: the Cowboys under Mike McCarthy are proving their whole is less than the sum of their parts. The Cowboys have (by far) the most talented roster in a gruesome NFC East, as they often did under Jason Garrett, But despite a QB on pace to throw for roughly eleventy billion yds and the league’s best receiving corps, they are a successful watermelon kick away from being 0-4, having surrendered a league-high 146 points.
> 
> They miss their best linebacker, Leighton Vander Esch, who is injured. Another linebacker, Jaylon Smith, has struggled. Their secondary, weakened by the off-season departure of cornerback Byron Jones, has allowed 12 TD passes, second only to Atlanta. On Sunday, in a 49-38 loss to Cleveland, the Cowboys ceded their most rushing yds (307) in franchise history. That is a staggering statistic. So is this: Dak Prescott has thrown for 1,690 yds. At this rate he’ll surpass the single-season record of 5,477, set in 2013 by Peyton Manning, in Week 14 – but with three games left.
> 
> Will it happen? Probably not. Can it? If the Cowboys’ defense continues to crater (and it very well will unless McCarthy and the defensive coordinator Mike Nolan can resolve the unit’s deficiencies), forcing Prescott to engage in Big 12-esque aerial displays merely to keep up; then sure, absolutely, chaos is fun.





Bill O'Brien has been over his head since his beginning in Houston  7 years ago.  But  I really blame ownership for all the dismal failure of the team.   McNair's were/are    clueless on hiring personnel.  
And the biggest problem,  it will now take *YEARS  * to correct things;    all the talent wasted or traded.    

BTW ... It took  JJ Watt (DE) getting into a shouting match with O'Brien to get him fired!!   ...   Thank you J.J.   Watt


----------



## Lethe200

Is it just me  or is the year flying by, LOL? Anyway, here we go:

*NFL Week 5 Predictions: IF the NFL plays through coronavirus setbacks *(Pt 1 of 2, all times EDT)
More positives for COVID. More stars out with major injuries. With an acknowledgment that things could change even more based on new developments, here is a look at Week 5.
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman Oct. 8, 2020 / edited for length by lethe200

*Sunday’s Best Games

Minnesota Vikings at Seattle Seahawks, 8:20 pm, NBC*
Pick: Seahawks
Odds are this is the week’s highest scoring game. Vikings (1-3) have a multipronged offensive attack led by Kirk Cousins, Dalvin Cook, Adam Thielen and Justin Jefferson, average 26.5 points a game - topping 30 points in three of their four outings. Seahawks (4-0) are enjoying an MVP season from Russell Wilson, with Seattle averaging 35.5 points a game.

Add in the fact that both teams’ defenses have at best been marked “present” in every game this season, and that Seattle potentially will be without safety Jamal Adams, cornerback Quinton Dunbar and linebacker Jordyn Brooks. The winner might be the first team who scores 50.

*Indianapolis Colts at Cleveland Browns, 4:25 pm, CBS*
Pick: Browns
After allowing 27 points against Jacksonville in Week 1, the Colts (3-1) have since allowed only 29 points total. They have their offense right where they want it, with a heavy focus on running the ball. Philip Rivers has been a nice addition at QB. That run of good fortune may go on hiatus this week against the Browns (3-1), who are underdogs at home despite coming off three consecutive wins in which their offense has generated an average of 39.3 points. The Colts certainly have the defensive personnel to slow any team down, but even with RB Nick Chubb out for several weeks with a knee injury, Cleveland should still have a great chance of improving to 4-1 for the first time since 1994.

*Cincinnati Bengals at Baltimore Ravens, 1 pm, CBS*
Pick: Ravens
The Ravens (3-1) are again two-TD favorites.Their average margin of victory in their three wins is 21 points. Baltimore’s D has dominated every team they’ve played except KC, and its offense continues to thrive thanks to its enviable collection of running options and a passing game that is higher in quality than in quantity. The Bengals (1-2-1) are a poor match, as their D is particularly susceptible to the run. But QB Joe Burrow has looked terrific over his first four games, and the combination of him and RB Joe Mixon - if Mixon can channel some of last week’s magic - could be enough to give Cincinnati a narrow loss, rather than a blowout.

*Sunday’s Other Games

Las Vegas Raiders at KC Chiefs, 1 pm, CBS*
Pick: Chiefs
The Chiefs (4-0) are a team capable of beating the best teams with ease, but also one that loses urgency playing against lesser teams. Needing OT to beat the Chargers was bad enough, but playing three quarters of uninspired football against the decimated Patriots in Week 4 - the score was 6-3 at halftime, and 13-3 after three quarters - was worse. The offense did finally wake up, cruising to a 26-10 win. But the Chiefs shouldn’t be careless. The Raiders (2-2), who run and pass the ball fairly well, could give their RB Josh Jacobs full rein versus KC’s defense. KC is a two-TD favorite, but they need to show up for at least three of the four quarters.

*Philadelphia Eagles at Pittsburgh Steelers, 1 pm, Fox*
Pick: Steelers
The Steelers (3-0) are playing at home with an extra week of rest (as a result of their Week 4 game against Tennessee being delayed) against the Eagles (1-2-1), who despite being the nominal division leaders in the NFC East are beat up and wildly inconsistent. Despite everything, Philadelphia’s defense has played above average football and the team shouldn’t get blown out too often. But their reign as a division leader should be short-lived.

*Carolina Panthers at Atlanta Falcons, 1 pm, Fox*
Pick: Panthers
If the Falcons (0-4) have a desperation gear, this is the time to engage it. HC Dan Quinn has to be on the hot seat after a winless start and multiple dramatic collapses. Playing the Panthers (2-2) is a challenge even at home. Carolina has played well recently, beating the Chargers and the Cardinals.

*Giants at Dallas Cowboys, 4:25 pm, CBS*
Pick: Cowboys
In his last three games, Dak Prescott of the Cowboys (1-3) has thrown for 450, 472 and 502 yds passing. It’s an unprecedented run of 450-yard games, and the only thing stopping him from getting to four is the likelihood that Dallas will get off to a big lead against the Giants (0-4) and will not need to keep throwing the ball. The Giants played the Rams much closer than was predicted, but Prescott might want to prove a point against a division rival.

*LA Rams at Washington Football Team, 1 pm, Fox*
Pick: Rams
Coach Ron Rivera believes the Footballers (1-3) have a shot at the playoffs thanks to their presence in the putrid NFC Least. He plans to start Kyle Allen at QB rather than Dwayne Haskins when facing the Rams (3-1), a team that is more than capable of hanging 30-plus points on Washington’s D. Maybe Alex Smith will see the field?

*Miami Dolphins at SF 49ers, 4:05 pm, Fox*
Pick: 49ers
Back-up QB Nick Mullens looked great in a Wk 3 win vs Giants (who wouldn’t?) but terrible in Wk 4’s shocking loss to the Eagles, getting benched in favor of back-up CJ Beathard. Neither was the answer to Jimmy Garoppolo, with Mullens throwing 2 interceptions and Beathard giving up 1. Jimmy G is active this week so we’ll see if his high ankle sprain can rescue the Niners’ season. If not – the Niners should still win at home vs Miami, but those OL and secondary holes must be giving Niners GM Lynch and HC Shanahan grey hairs.


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Week 5 Predictions by NY Times, Pt 2 of 2*
All times EDT

*Jacksonville Jaguars at Houston Texans, 1 pm, CBS*
Pick: Texans
On Oct. 4, it was reported that Bill O’Brien, the coach and general manager of the Texans (0-4) would add play-calling to his duties. On Oct. 5, it was announced that O’Brien would no longer have any duties at all. It seems as if the team finally noticed that QB Deshaun Watson’s prime years were being entirely wasted, though that realization didn’t happen until after O’Brien, in his GM role, had largely gutted the team. The good news for Romeo Crennel, who will take over the team on an interim basis, is that his team has an excellent chance to start off a new era with a win thanks to the visiting Jaguars (1-3) being the type of team that Watson should absolutely shred.

*Arizona Cardinals at Jets, 1 pm, Fox*
Pick: Cardinals
The Cardinals (2-2) are suddenly reeling, having followed up a 2-0 start with consecutive losses, the second of which involved QB Kyler Murray averaging a meager 4.3 yds per passing attempt - a statistic that was likely caused by an ankle injury to WR DeAndre Hopkins. It isn’t where Coach Kliff Kingsbury wants the Cardinals to be, but the Jets (0-4) have done an excellent job making other teams feel good about themselves this season.

On top of being winless, the Jets had a player test positive for COVID and had to send the team home as a precaution, so this game joins the list of ones that are in doubt for the week.

*Monday’s Matchups

LA Chargers at New Orleans Saints, 8:15 pm, ESPN *(note: game will NOT be moved)
Pick: Saints
The NFL’s string of scheduling issues continues, with this game potentially being moved to Indianapolis as a result of Hurricane Delta bearing down on New Orleans. The Saints (2-2) would still be the home team even if the game is moved, and RB Alvin Kamara is justifying his huge new contract by leading the NFL in yds from scrimmage and TDs. But there is no question that the Saints’ D has disappointed thus far, and if they give the rookie QB Justin Herbert some room to make plays, the Chargers (1-3) could turn this into a game.

*Denver Broncos at New England Patriots, 5 pm, ESPN*
Pick: Patriots
Moving this game to Monday increases the chances for a Broncos QB Lock vs Patriots QB Newton match-up. However, it’s been announced Brett Rypien will start for Denver. If Newton can pass two tests and have them come back as a negative result, he will be able to return to the field. Considering he tested positive late Friday night, giving him another day only boosts his chances of being cleared to play in Week 5.

Newton returning for Josh McDaniels’ offense in New England would be a game-changer, no doubt. He’s the definition of a dual-threat quarterback, and even at age 31, he’s excelling with the Pats this year. In three games, he’s completing 68.1 percent of passes for 714 yards and two touchdowns with two interceptions. He also has rushed for 149 yards, with a 4.3 yard per carry average, and four scores.

The Patriots’ best defensive player, Stephon Gilmore, just tested positive so is out for Game 5. More positive tests could delay this game again, but if they are able to play it’s a tossup, with the advantage going to the home team with the better coach.

*Tuesday’s Matchup (Maybe – TBD)

Buffalo Bills at Tennessee Titans, 7 pm, CBS*
Pick: Bills
Will this game be played? The Titans (3-0) have 21 players/staff testing positive, so it remains TBD. Whenever this game it played, it should be a good one. The Bills (4-0) have been absolutely dominant on offense, and would have a field day against Tennessee’s shoddy D. The Titans, provided they don’t come in with too much rust from a long layoff, could, in turn, be expected to score against Buffalo’s struggling defense. The Bills should be favored if there is a game, but that is a big if.

*Thursday’s Game: Bears 20, Buccaneers 19*
We expected the Buccaneers (3-2) to be something less than their best thanks to numerous injuries on offense, but still picked TBay on the basis that their D had everything it needed to slow down Nick Foles and the Bears (4-1). In the end, Foles looked ordinary, but he came out on top in an unorthodox rematch of Super Bowl LII. It was an NFL first, where two QBs that started against each other in a Super Bowl faced off again as starters with other teams. The Bears still seem like a deeply flawed team, but 4-1 is 4-1.

TBay’s undoing was a series of costly offensive penalties, many of which were the result of the Buccaneers’ OL doing anything it could to try to slow down OL Khalil Mack and the Chicago pass rush. As a sign of how shaken up Tom Brady was by the end of the game, he turned the ball over on downs with an incompletion, effectively ending the game, but stayed on the field signaling for the ball, believing the previous play had been a third down.


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## jerry old

Ravens vs Bengals Would like to see an upset, donl't think it can happen


Texasvs Oklahoma, annual shotout today, lots ofhard hitting.
Oklahoma has 46 Texans on theiri roster, Texas has one Okie on their rooster

Jags and Hoston-we will see just how far a team (Houston) can fall


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## Lethe200

Latest changes to NFL schedule as of 10a PDT 11Oct2020:

The New England Patriots’ facility was shut down Sunday morning after another positive test, and their *Monday night game against Denver in Foxborough, Mass., has been postponed *and will be rescheduled a second time, increasing the possibility of a Week 18 being added to the schedule.

The Titans had reopened their facility Saturday after it was closed for 11 days, but a staff member tested positive Sunday. *Tennessee is slated to play a rescheduled game against Buffalo on Tuesday night but this is now TBD.*


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## JustBonee

It seems to me that _if _we get to the end of the  season,  and there is a Super Bowl,  there will be a big *  after the winners name.  
So much confusion with players health,   and  and  a scrambled schedule keeps everyone  off kilter  ...  
Whatever happens,   the feeling of unfairness   will be there at the end


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## jerry old

Bonnie said:


> It seems to me that _if _we get to the end of the  season,  and there is a Super Bowl,  there will be a big *  after the winners name.
> So much confusion with players health,   and  and  ...
> 
> Baseball season was is a farce, football is becoming a farce, all  pro sports should have been canceled -bring on the asterisks**********


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## Lethe200

Yup, hard to keep track of things with so many changes, injuries, etc. etc. 

*Write off the Cowboys for 2020. *Dak Prescott just suffered a HORRENDOUS broken ankle. He was in tears on the cart. If it's similar to the one I had - and it looked as bad or worse - it's a compound fracture with considerable nerve damage. Gruesome photo/video.

*Monday 10/12 game: LA Chargers vs New Orleans Saints.* 5:15 PDT gametime.

*Tuesday 10/13 game: Buffalo Bills vs Tennessee Titans.* 4p PDT gametime.


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## DaveA

Watched the Seahawks - Vikings game last evening. Thought the Vikings had it (surprisingly) in the bag but a last minute miracle by Russel Wilson trashed the Vikings dream.  Vikings running game was "top shelf" even when Cooke went out in the second half with a cramped up leg. He returned later for only one play.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned from Week 5 of the NFL Season*         Pt 1 of 2
Dak Prescott’s season is over, Alex Smith came back after nearly two years away, the Ravens demolished Joe Burrow and the Bengals, and the Raiders shocked the Chiefs.
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman Oct. 11, 2020 _(edited for length by lethe200)_

Sunday got off to a rocky start when the NFL announced it would delay this week’s game between the Denver Broncos and the NE Patriots because of continuing issues with COVID. The decision led to a cascade of changes in the coming schedule, and is sure to be a frequent topic of conversation as teams adjust on the fly.

As for the day’s action, there were surprising results, multiple close games and a feel-good comeback by Alex Smith that almost no one predicted. It was not all good news, however. The 0-5 Atlanta Falcons fired both coach and GM. Dak Prescott of the Dallas Cowboys sustained a gruesome injury that has ended his season.

Here’s what we learned:

*Dak Prescott’s record-setting season is over.* Prescott scrambled for a 9-yard gain in Q3 of Sunday’s game against the Giants when the Cowboys QB had his legs tangle underneath him as he was tackled. His right foot hung at an awkward angle as medical staff ran to help him. He was in tears as he was taken off the field on the back of a cart and was replaced by Andy Dalton, who led the team to a narrow 37-34 victory.

Prescott, who threw for at least 450 yds in each of his three previous games - an NFL first - set a record for the most passing yds with 1,690 through the first four games. The outburst of productivity followed an off-season in which he failed to come to terms with Dallas on a long-term contract extension.

No official timetable was given for his recovery, but the team confirmed that Prescott sustained a compound fracture and dislocation of the ankle. Team owner Jerry Jones said he has “no doubt” Prescott will be able to return as the team’s leader eventually and Prescott’s brother shared a photo of Dak in the hospital smiling after surgery. But the ramifications of the injury and recovery will likely affect Prescott’s contract negotiations with Dallas this off-season.

*There is no quit in Alex Smith. *A devastating knee injury in November 2018 had doctors contemplating amputating the veteran QB’s right leg. His career was declared over by numerous pundits, his team used its first-round pick that off-season on a new QB, and the world moved on – except for Smith, 36. He endured 17 surgeries, received medical clearance shortly before the season began, and entered the Washington Football Team’s game on Sunday after an injury to Kyle Allen, throwing an official pass for the first time in 693 days.

Smith was well short of the longest gap between passes, which according to the Elias Sports Bureau belongs to Tony Adams, a career backup who went 3,276 days between attempts (Oct. 15, 1978, to Oct. 4, 1987). But when you factor in just how unlikely Smith’s return was, his so-so passing day in a 30-10 loss to the LA Rams was nothing short of phenomenal.

*KC needs to work on its concentration.* The Chiefs opened their Super Bowl defense with four consecutive wins, including a dominant effort that ended Baltimore’s 14-game regular-season winning streak. But on either side of that win over the Ravens, the Chiefs had to survive an overtime scare against the Chargers in Week 2 and then struggled for much of the game against the Cam Newton-less Patriots in Week 4. On Sunday, that tendency to play down to their competition caught up with the Chiefs in a big way, as the Las Vegas Raiders, who came in as 13-point underdogs, threw everything they had at the Chiefs, running up a lead and then staving off a Patrick Mahomes comeback for a shocking 40-32 win at KC. It was just the 11th time the Chiefs have allowed 40 or more points at Arrowhead Stadium, and the first time in over seven years the Raiders had defeated their divisional rival the Chiefs in KC’s stadium.

*You can’t give Russell Wilson any time. *The Vikings pulled ahead of the Seahawks midway through Q4 by 26-21, with the ball and a chance to extend their lead. Instead, Minnesota turned the ball over on downs, giving Wilson 1 minute 57 seconds to take his team 94 yds. Wilson only needed 1:42, connecting with DK Metcalf for yet another game-winning TD. Wilson spent much of the game with his team trailing an opponent with a losing record, but he left it with his front-runner status for the NFL’s MVP Award intact.

*The Jaguars are good for your self-esteem.* Houston was in disarray, starting the season 0-4, which resulted in the firing of Coach Bill O’Brien. A switch to Romeo Crennel, 73, as HC is not yet permanent, but Crennel started off his reign as the oldest head coach in NFL history with a convincing win, as Deshaun Watson threw for 359 yds and three TDs while leading Houston past Jacksonville, 30-14. The big question is if Houston can do anything like this against a team that fields something resembling an NFL defense.

*It is not always the guys you expect.* You’d be forgiven if you’d never heard of Travis Fulgham or Chase Claypool before Sunday. They came into the day with a combined eight career receptions, but more than doubled that as they squared off in one of the more unlikely and entertaining battles you’ll come across. Fulgham caught 10 passes for 152 yds and a TD, but that was nothing compared to Claypool, who had seven catches for 110 yds and three receiving TDs, while running in a fourth score. Claypool’s final TD of the day came on a 35-yard pass from Ben Roethlisberger, and it put the game away for Pittsburgh in a 38-29 victory.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned from Week 5 of the NFL Season        *Pt 2 of 2

*Sunday’s Top Performers
Top Passer: Ryan Fitzpatrick. *Ryan Fitzpatrick has had more than his fair share of ups and downs in a 16-season career, and this was one of his bigger ups. Whether it is enough to give him job security with Tua Tagovailoa waiting in the wings is only truly known by Coach Brian Flores, but Fitzpatrick’s current ratio of three good games to two bad ones this season certainly makes an argument for keeping him on the field.

*Top Runner: Ezekiel Elliott. *Todd Gurley II of the Falcons had more rushing yds (and an absurd 8.6 yds a carry), but in addition to his 105 yds from scrimmage and two TDs, Elliott deserves credit for keeping his team together after the loss of QB Dak Prescott. Elliott scored his second TD just three plays after Prescott’s injury, and those points proved vital in a game that came down to the final seconds.

*Top Receiver: Chase Claypool. *Claypool had just six receptions over the first three games of his career, taking the field for less than 40 percent of his team’s snaps in two of the three games. In his fourth game he was absolutely dominant, becoming the third rookie WR in NFL history to have four TDs in a single game, joining Jerry Butler (Sept. 23, 1979) and Harlon Hill (Oct. 31, 1954).

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games    *_*Except when it takes more._

*Browns 32, Colts 23.* The Browns are now 4-1. The last time they managed this was Oct. 1994 when somebody named Bill Belichick was their HC. Since then, the Browns moved to Baltimore after the 1995 season, were resurrected in Cleveland in 1999 and have had 56 players throw at least one pass. Unfortunately, the Steelers are next, and will be looking to go 4-0 over the Browns after Week 6 is over.

*Raiders 40, Chiefs 32.* Not only did the Chiefs lose for the first time since Nov. 10, 2019, they did so at home while watching a team look a lot like them: the rookie WR Henry Ruggs III used his game-changing speed to burn KC’s defense for 113 yds on just two receptions, one of which was a 72-yard TD. Josh Jacobs, the Raider RB who was in contention for 2019 Rookie of the Year before he got hurt, added 77 yds and 2 TDs. Raider QB Derek Carr silenced a lot of his critics, and Gruden gets kudos for an aggressive and successful game plan.

*Cowboys 37, Giants 34.* Dallas has to be happy that they invested in a veteran backup. Andy Dalton may not be perfect, but he’s a lot better than what many teams would have if they lost their franchise QB for the season. Salvaging a win in this game was a start, but the execution will obviously need improvement.

*Ravens 27, Bengals 3.* Lamar Jackson had a day well below his typical standards, but Baltimore didn’t need much from its offense thanks to a terrific effort from its defense, which reminded Joe Burrow that he is a rookie. Seven players recorded a sack for the Ravens, including Patrick Queen, who had nine tackles, a sack and two fumble recoveries, the second of which he returned 53 yds for a TD.

*Seahawks 27, Vikings 26.* Seattle isn’t the only undefeated team, but they are the first team to 5-0 thanks to GBay’s bye week and various delays for other teams caused by COVID. For Minnesota, the biggest concern (besides dropping to 1-4) was a groin injury sustained by RB Dalvin Cook that could affect him going forward.

*Steelers 38, Eagles 29.* A win is a win, but Pittsburgh should be concerned both by its secondary struggling against Philadelphia and one of the team’s top off-season acquisitions, TE Eric Ebron, having a rough Q4 in which he fumbled the ball away in a key situation on one drive and got pushed out of the way for a near interception - the ball hit the ground before it was caught - on the next one.

*Dolphins 43, 49ers 17.* Miami outgained SF by nearly 200 yds, Ryan Fitzpatrick threw three TD passes. Jimmy Garoppolo was benched for his own safety at halftime in a game that went off the rails immediately for the defending NFC champs. The Niners injury-depleted secondary got chewed up and spit out by Fitz, while the Miami D totaled 5 sacks, constant pressure, and 4 interceptions (2 of Jimmy G and 2 on replacement CJ Beathard). It was the first time this season the entire first-string SF backfield was on the field, but it didn’t take long to realize both Jimmy G and WR Deebo Samuels were a long way from being 100% recovered. Fans and media are not happy with the Niners’ offensive or defensive playcalling, and rightly so.

*Rams 30, Footballers 10.* LA got an easy win on the road as Jared Goff threw for 309 yds, the rookie RB Cam Akers returned from an injury to average 6.8 yds a carry, Robert Woods hauled in a 56-yard TD pass and Aaron Donald tied his career high with four sacks. Donald is having a monster year – again.

*Cardinals 30, Jets 10.* DeAndre Hopkins’s injured ankle appeared to be healed, as he torched the Jets for six catches, 131 yds and a TD, ruining Joe Flacco’s first start since Week 8 of last season.

*Panthers 23, Falcons 16.* Todd Gurley turned the clock way back with 121 yds (on just 14 carries) and a TD, Calvin Ridley had eight receptions for 136 yds. But Atlanta still lost by a TD at home, to a team missing its best player. It makes you wonder how this team could ever win a game. So it makes sense that afterwards, the team fired Coach Dan Quinn and GM Thomas Dimitroff.

*Texans 30, Jaguars 14.* You’d have to work hard to find a play executed more poorly than a fourth-and-1 at the opponent’s 8-yard line in which a team trailing by 13-7 (Jacksonville) did a direct snap to a RB (James Robinson), had him roll out as if he was going to pass – only to have him simply drop the ball with no contact for a turnover that cemented the game in Houston’s favor.


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## jerry old

If Russell Wulson continues his field generalship he should be a shoo-in for his second NFL-MVP.
Settle and SF may be  in  a dogfight- wonder if LA can return to their Super Bowl Form.

Super Bowl: Far to early to pick but it appears the  NFL West  will field a team, while AFC is a tad muddled.
KC should return to Super Bowl,  But-Buffalo, and a team from AFC Central  could possible win division playoffs  
So, it should be NFC-West and  KC  {Can't count out Ravens, Buffalo (it is not going to happen, but I would like to see
Browns or Bengals make a run )}

Anyone rooting for Titans, somehow they just slide by me into oblivion.


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## jerry old

Lethe200 keeps us on target:
Who are the Panthers, Jaguars?  I'm sure there is a fan base, but not here.  Their so vague to me...

Cowboy fans need to turn off TV and  Their fans had mental brakedowns last year.  
Rascals they are...

Browns: In 1995 Mr. Bill finally had all his players and coaches in place in Cleveland, when the all-knowing owne, Art Modell,  fired him after  he lost three games in 96.
There is a good doc. on Mr. Bill  and Cleveland on E 60
Modell, in a tiff because Cleveland would not build him a new stadium, absconded to Baltimore


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## Lethe200

Finally watched the Saints-Chargers game Week 5 (love my DVR, I can have a football game almost every night of the week, LOL). It was a good game to watch, tied and went into OT. This is the second game I've watched LAC's Herbert and this kid is impressive! Good presence in the pocket, keeps his cool under pressure, and boy does he have an arm!

The ChargersWire article summed it all up nicely:

*The Good:
QB Justin Herbert:* What more could you ask for from Herbert? The rookie went toe to toe with future Hall of Fame QB Drew Brees, finishing 20-of-34 passing for 264 yards and four touchdowns, which marks the most in MNF history for a rookie QB. Herbert did this all while being in the face of pressure all night, and missing some of his top skill players (Keenan Allen and Austin Ekeler). The future is bright for the Chargers.

*WR Mike Williams:* After Allen went down last week, Williams became Herbert’s go-to target. He turned eight targets into five catches for 109 yards and two scores, including an outstanding grab in the fourth quarter that put the Chargers in position for the go-ahead field goal (which was missed).

*Run defense:* Before the game, I (columnist) said that the Chargers must find a way to minimize Saints running back Alvin Kamara’s effect on the game. While Kamara made some splash days through the air, him and RB Latavius Murray struggled to get anything going on the ground, failing to go over 100 yards.

*The Bad and The Ugly:
Offensive Line.* They sucked. Herbert was sacked three times and was pressured 14 times (37.8% pressure rate, the defense’s highest in a game this season), per Next Gen Stats. That he shattered the MNF record for passing TDs by a rookie tells you how good Herbert is looking, despite rotten protection.

*Conservative play-calling in the second half:* Roll with what’s working. The Chargers failed to do so out of the locker room when they had the lead. They took the conservative route rather than being aggressive on early downs by choosing to run the ball on nine of their 14 first-down plays in the second half and overtime. The result? They averaged only 1.11 yards per carry on their first-down rush attempts.

*Punt coverage*_: _The Chargers have the worst special teams rating in the NFL, per Football Outsiders. Kicker Michael Badgley lost the LAC the game by missing an extra point, which would have won the game in regulation time, and then a field goal in OT.

*Second-half defense: *Except for a few positives, the unit fell apart when they had a commanding lead. Soft/busted coverages and lack of pressure led to QB Drew Brees’ comeback after being down 17 points. The LAC unit is banged up, and the bye week couldn’t come at a better time to get healthy.


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## Lethe200

*NFL Week 6 Predictions     *_Pt 1 of 2_
The red-hot Browns and Steelers will resume a fierce rivalry. The Chiefs and Bills try to get back on track. The Falcons are working remotely and the Andy Dalton Era begins for Dallas.
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman Oct. 15, 2020 _(edited for length by lethe200)_

*The Week’s Best Games  *_All times EDT_

*Cleveland Browns at Pittsburgh Steelers, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Browns
The rivalry between the Browns (4-1) and the Steelers (4-0) is so fierce and can be so ugly, that it continued last year even though Cleveland was irrelevant and Pittsburgh was without its franchise QB.

The Steelers’ latest win came courtesy of the shocking emergence of Chase Claypool, a rookie WR who exploded for four TDs last week. It’s too soon but in a small sample, Claypool looked a lot like Martavis Bryant, with fewer off-field concerns.

For the Browns, it has been a team effort on offense. Baker Mayfield has been solid if not spectacular, WRs Odell Beckham Jr. and Jarvis Landry have played well (and shown off their throwing arms) and Kareem Hunt did a good job filling in for the starting RB Nick Chubb last game.

Pittsburgh seems overdue for a smothering effort on defense. But if these two offenses keep it up, this could turn into a last-team-with-the-ball-wins shootout.

*KC Chiefs at Buffalo Bills, 5 p.m. Monday, Fox and NFL Network*
Pick: Chiefs
Moved from Thursday, this is a rare Monday game that won’t be in prime time. But with both teams coming off their first loss of the season, it will be worth tuning to see what happens.

Last week against LVegas, the Chiefs (4-1) fell prey to playing down to the competition. The Bills (4-1) were demolished by Tennessee. Those results should motivate both teams, which could lead to a lot of yardage and points.

Buffalo may want to feature the running game more than usual to exploit KC’s weakness defending it. Patrick Mahomes can exploit a Bills secondary that has been reeling. The Chiefs, when motivated, can beat absolutely anyone, so Buffalo might be in trouble.

*Monday’s Other Matchup
Arizona Cardinals at Dallas Cowboys, 8:15 p.m., ESPN*
Pick: Cowboys
These teams are coming off wins, but the Cardinals (3-2) can’t be too excited about trouncing the awful Jets, and the Cowboys (2-3) had their win against the lowly Giants (and potentially their entire season) spoiled by the gruesome injury to QB Dak Prescott. Playing the remainder of the season without Prescott and left tackle Tyron Smith makes Dallas a less explosive offensive team, but being an underdog at home to an inconsistent team like Arizona doesn’t feel right, either.

The Cowboys still have an accomplished backup in Andy Dalton, who has a ridiculous collection of WRs to choose from plus RB Ezekiel Elliott, so there’s every reason to believe Dallas can be a middling team or better. In the NFC East that could put them in the playoffs.

*LA Rams at SF 49ers, 8:20 p.m., NBC*
Pick: Rams
The winds shift rapidly in the hypercompetitive NFC West, where the Rams (4-1) were a Super Bowl team in 2018 but fell off the map in 2019, while the 49ers (2-3) brought up the rear in 2018 and then went to the Super Bowl in 2019. They’ve shifted again, with LA getting off to a nice start, particularly on offense, while SF has been overwhelmed by injury and disappointment.

It makes sense for the Rams to be favored, even on the road, but it might be getting ahead of things to assume SF’s embarrassing loss to Miami last week was anything more complicated than Jimmy Garoppolo being unsteady on his injured ankle and the team’s defense being sand-bagged by a team that has more offense than you’d guess.

QB Garoppolo and WR Deebo Samuel have had another week to get healthier. The explosive Raheem Mostert is back and the 49ers can pick up huge chunks of yardage after the catch thanks to the hard running of Brandon Aiyuk and George Kittle.

Niners DC Saleh is running out of Patch-It for a D that is missing first-stringers Richard Sherman, Nick Bosa, Kwon Alexander, plus first- and second-string CBs Moseley and Johnson. When the Rams QB Goff is pressured, he makes even worse decisions than Jimmy G., but expecting this Niners corp of walking wounded to overcome the divisional leader may be too much to expect even from the talented Saleh.

*GBay Packers at TBay Buccaneers, 4:25 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Packers
Brady will have to be at his peak to keep up with Aaron Rodgers and the Packers (4-0). Tom Brady losing track of downs in the waning moments of last week’s shocking loss to Chicago was probably a one-off fluke, but the Bucs can’t afford any mistakes when facing the Pack.

GBay is returning after an early bye week, which could be seen as a burden: The team had offensive momentum from Weeks 1 to 4 and will now have to play 12 weeks in a row. But the bye also appears to have allowed Packers WR Davante Adams to return to full health, which opens up their offense considerably.


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## Lethe200

*NFL Week 6 Predictions *_Pt 2 of 2_
NYT by Benjamin Hoffman, edited for length by lethe200

*Sunday’s Other Games

Baltimore Ravens at Philadelphia Eagles, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Ravens
A defining characteristic of the Ravens (4-1) is that they do not take games off. Facing a bad team? That’s just an opportunity to run for 200 yds and put up 30-plus points. And the team’s defense gets in on the same act. That’s all terrible news for the Eagles (1-3-1), who have a crowded injury report and aren’t a particularly good team even when healthy. It’s worth noting for future weeks that Lamar Jackson’s passing, while still effective, has taken a dip from last season’s MVP-level efficiency. That probably won’t matter on Sunday, but it might when the team comes out of its bye to face Pittsburgh in Week 8.

*Houston Texans at Tennessee Titans, 1 p.m. CBS*
Pick: Titans
It was nice to see the Texans (1-4) again. The team had been missing in action for the first four weeks. Under interim coach Romeo Crennel, it looked rejuvenated - with a large caveat that the win came over the Jaguars. Houston might get whiplash from going from the AFC South’s worst team (Jacksonville) to its best one (Tennessee). The Titans (4-0) ended a 16-day layoff by demolishing the highly regarded Bills, and will look to stay perfect by picking up another win at home. Their D might allow Texans QB Deshaun Watson another huge day, but the Titans offense can make up for that.

*Cincinnati Bengals at Indianapolis Colts, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Bengals
Baltimore rudely reminded Joe Burrow that he was still a rookie as the Bengals (1-3-1) managed just 3 points in last week’s blowout. The bad news for Burrow is that the Colts (3-2) are not much more fun to play against. But with linebacker Darius Leonard out, the point spread seems a touch too high.

*Jets at Miami Dolphins, 4:05 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Jets
It’s not yet clear if Sam Darnold will return from a shoulder injury, which could lead to the Jets (0-5) starting Joe Flacco at QB and ageless Frank Gore at RB. That’s a fitting tribute to the 2012 season’s Super Bowl, but not an ideal situation for a game in 2020. Regardless of who is at QB, Le’Veon Bell’s release appears to have left Gore, 37, locked in at starting RB, which defies all reason. Gore is third on the all-time NFL rushing yardage list, now with his fifth team. He’s currently the oldest active running back in the NFL.

The Dolphins (2-3) will probably win this game no matter which version of Ryan Fitzpatrick shows up – the good QB or the bad QB. But the bad version is probably itching to come out after last week’s stunner against SF.

*Denver Broncos at NE Patriots, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Patriots
Having this game pushed off by a week led to a cascade of schedule changes, complicated the rest of the season for these two teams and contributed to the belief that the NFL was losing its grip on its bubble-less existence during a pandemic. But if you limit your view to the action on the field, the delay should make for a better game. Drew Lock has been practicing for the Broncos (1-3), but is still listed as questionable as of today (Sat 17th). The Patriots (2-2) get Cam Newton back from the Reserve/Covid-19 list, which is an immeasurable improvement over Jarrett Stidham or Brian Hoyer. If NE gets CB Stephon Gilmore back from the list as well, the Patriots will essentially be back to full strength.

*Chicago Bears at Carolina Panthers, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Panthers
Expecting the Bears (4-1) to make sense is foolish. The team has had extended periods of total incompetence, but has managed to ride a combination of good timing, a weak schedule, erratic production and luck to one of the best records in the NFL Last week, they escalated things by using their sorcery to beat a fairly decent team (TBay) in Chicago, but now they’ll be on the road against the Panthers (3-2), who aren’t perfect but shouldn’t be underestimated, even with RB Christian McCaffrey expected to miss at least one more game.

*Atlanta Falcons at Minnesota Vikings, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Vikings
Despite one confirmed positive test for Covid-19, Atlanta is proceeding as if the game will happen, though the team was working remotely just to be safe. As for the actual football, the Falcons (0-5) are probably longing for the weeks when they ran up big leads but then collapsed. Since then, they’ve simply been bad for entire games. The team’s incompetence led to Coach Dan Quinn’s firing, and while a new coach can sometimes give a team a bounce, going into Minnesota to face the Vikings (1-4) will not be any fun for Atlanta’s struggling defense. The Vikes will miss RB Dalvin Cook, who suffered a groin injury in Week 5, but this figures to be a pass-heavy game.

*Detroit Lions at Jacksonville Jaguars, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Jaguars
There could be a lot of points in this game. Both teams have explosive passing games, credible running attacks and horrible Ds, which might make for some nifty highlights even if the calories are entirely empty. The Lions (1-3) are coming off a bye and have a clean injury report, while the Jaguars (1-4) are coming off four straight losses, only two of which were close. But things will probably come down to which team makes a mistake at the wrong time. Detroit has allowed an average 170.3 rushing yds a game.

*Washington Football Team at Giants, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Giants
Alex Smith provided a feel-good story by returning to the field, but the veteran QB was clearly limited, which is why the Footballers (1-4) are expected to start Kyle Allen this weekend. Allen doesn’t offer much more upside, but he’s a bit more solid than Smith at this point. The team has apparently given up on Dwayne Haskins. Washington has the superior record, but the Giants (0-5) are the favorite in this game for a reason. They’ve played fairly close games against the Cowboys and the Rams in the last two weeks, and might be able to put up a fair amount of points against Washington. The state of New Jersey could finally get its first win of the season.


----------



## jerry old

Lethe200 gives us the info to select teams to watch
Brown and Steelers-Steelers have been a good team, but, but, but, the Browns are back-Browns by 7

LA vs 49's-don't know,  dogfight

Bucs playing some team, does not matte who, gott'a check Old Man Tom out


----------



## DaveA

Maybe my mind is slipping but it seems like it's been awhile since the browns were a team to be reckoned with.


----------



## jerry old

DaveA said:


> Maybe my mind is slipping but it seems like it's been awhile since the browns were a team to be reckoned with.
> 
> It's been forever to Brown's fans, that is changing.  They have the horses, are 4-1  now.
> There in the same conference with Ravens and Steelers, how would you like to play them twice a year (EEEK)
> 
> Their in a heck of  a conference, kind's like NFC West with Settle, SF, LA


----------



## AnnieA

Lethe200 said:


> *Write off the Cowboys for 2020. *Dak Prescott just suffered a HORRENDOUS broken ankle. He was in tears on the cart. If it's similar to the one I had - and it looked as bad or worse - it's a compound fracture with considerable nerve damage. Gruesome photo/video.



Defense had already been doing a good job writing off the Cowboys..   As for Dak, I cried.  I have been watching this young man give heart and soul since he was 18 or 19 at Mississippi State.  I don't normally cry much--especially about celebrities, but have for him several times.  The game on Saturday in 2013 following his mother's funeral that Wednesday.  After learning of his brother's suicide earlier this year and the interview he did last month with Graham Bensinger about his brother's death.   

Dak may be injured but he will give 100% to get back.  He has a great big heart and a work ethic to match.


----------



## jerry old

Boy's are straight out of 'Heartbreak Hotel'
I swear I will not be sucked in☹ every year I come crawling back

Money is not always  compensation, but he will receive 33 million dollars to sooth his injury.  
His personal losses are a different matter


----------



## Kaila

That Rookie QB Herbert, Lethe mentioned above, is definitely impressive.


----------



## Kaila

@AnnieA 
I was glad to see that Dak still has another brother, who is very supportive for him.  Thought you'd like to know that, too.


----------



## Lethe200

Kaila said:


> That Rookie QB Herbert, Lethe mentioned above, is definitely impressive.


Yes, his third TD, a 48-yd pass that was picture-perfect even though he was under pressure, was AMAZING!

We Niner fans have given up for the season and are just hoping to end in third place in the NFC West, sigh. It's a super-tough division but it does make for games that are fun to watch. Can't believe we got smacked by the injury bug not only in 2018 and part of 2019, but also devastated again in 2020. Sheesh......


----------



## AnnieA

Kaila said:


> @AnnieA
> I was glad to see that Dak still has another brother, who is very supportive for him.  Thought you'd like to know that, too.



He does and close, supportive relatives on both sides of his family including his dad.  I'll never forget the three boys in a group hug crying on the sidelines at the end of the Mississippi State game the Saturday after they buried their mom Wednesday of that week.


----------



## jerry old

Dave A was not sure Browns were contenders...
The Bully Boys from Pittsburgh showed them,  'Your not ready yet.' 
 They squashed and   mashed the Browns, left them crying with one touchdown.  

Thought LA might give SF problems-'Nope, you'll go back to LA and lick your wounds.

Boy's and Cardinals tonight, the worst team in the NFC-West   will show us just how inept the entire NFC 
East has become.         
All four teams in NFC-East should cancel their remaining schedule-due to embarrassment.


----------



## jerry old

NFC East
Giants have won one game
Washington has won one game  (poor guys don't have a name)
Eagles have won one game
Cowboys have won two

Dallas lost on Monday night football, changes states
NFC East, all 4 teams have won a total of 25% of their games: played 20, won 5. 
Don't you know other conferences are licking their lips,
'Oh boy, we get to play a NFC-East team this week.'


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 6 of the NFL Season         *Pt 1 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman, Oct. 18, 2020    _(edited for length by lethe200)_
*Sunday’s Top Performers

Top Passer: Matt Ryan*
In Tennessee, Deshaun Watson and Ryan Tannehill each threw for more than 330 yds and four TDs. But Ryan was as good or better than either while picking up his first win of the season. In Atlanta’s first game under interim coach Raheem Morris, Ryan completed 30 of 40 passes for 371 yds and four scores, looking as good as he has at any point in the last several seasons.

*Top Runner: Derrick Henry*
There have only been 16 rushing TDs of 94 or more yds in NFL history. Henry now has two of them. He added a 94-yarder on Sunday to go along with his 2018 99-yarder. The supersize RB has as many 200-yard rushing games in the last three seasons as the rest of the NFL combined.

*Top Receiver: Justin Jefferson*
Adam Thielen was seen berating Kirk Cousins on the sideline during a disastrous first half on Sunday. But even in a loss there was a silver lining for Minnesota. Jefferson continued a terrific rookie season by catching nine of 11 passes thrown his way for 166 yds and two TDs. Jefferson has topped 100 yds receiving in three of his last four games and is part of a special draft class of WRs that is living up to its hype so far.

*The Games:

Buccaneers 38, Packers 10.* Just about everything went TBay’s way, but the most stark thing about this game was the lack of pass protection for GBay. Aaron Rodgers, who had been sacked just three times over his team’s first four games, was put down four times by the Buccaneers. Rodgers finished the day with a passer rating of 35.4, the third-worst mark of his career.

It’s been 679 days since Rob Gronkowski’s last TD, but the TE found the end zone in TBay’s shocking blowout of the GBay Packers, hauling in a 12-yard diving score before doing one of his signature over-the-top spikes. He finished the day with five catches for 78 yds, both of which are his best marks for TBay, and helped his team improve to 4-2.

*Titans 42, Texans 36 (OT).* Has Titans RB Derrick Henry made life easy for Tannehill, who was a disappointment in Miami? Whatever it is, it’s working. The numbers in Sunday’s overtime win over Houston were eye-popping even for Tennessee. Tannehill passed for 364 yds and four TDs. Henry’s 264 total yds from scrimmage included a 94-yard TD run, a 53-yard reception in overtime and a 5-yard game-winning TD. Tennessee had 601 yds of offense - just the 38th 600-yard game since 1940, according to Pro Football Reference - and is now 5-0 this season and 12-3 since Tannehill became the team’s starting QB last season.

It’s hard to quibble with a game in which a team’s offense managed 601 total yds, but Tennessee really should be concerned about its defense, which allowed 412 yds and 36 points to a team that fired its head coach and general manager two weeks ago.

*Steelers 38, Browns 7.* Cleveland averaged 37.5 points over its previous four games but could do absolutely nothing against Pittsburgh, with QB Baker Mayfield looking beat up and ineffective while throwing for 119 yds, one TD and two interceptions. The teams have a chippy past, but that has not made for competitive football games. The Steelers got a pick-six from safety Minkah Fitzpatrick and big offensive from RB James Conner and rookie receiver Chase Claypool. The Steelers improved their record against the Browns to 36-7-1 since that team’s resurrection in Cleveland in 1999.

How bad were the Browns? The team came in with its best five-game start since 1994. By halftime fans had backup QB Case Keenum trending on Twitter. Cleveland did switch to Keenum in the second half, but it didn’t matter.

*Colts 31, Bengals 27.* Phil Rivers showed why the Colts wanted him. He stayed cool to outscore Cincinnati by 31-6 the rest of the way, throwing for 371 yds and three TDs. The Colts set the franchise’s record for largest comeback in a regular season game. Joe Burrow was the first overall pick in this year’s draft, and he’s had an impressive start to his career, regardless of his win-loss record. On Sunday, he got his team off to a 21-0 lead against the Colts. Burrow has thrown for 300 or more yds in four of his six games. He’ll be a star once his team adds some talent around him. But till then the Bengals will struggle.

*Ravens 30, Eagles 28.* Last week Lamar Jackson rushed for just 3 yds, dropping his season average down to 47.6 yds rushing per game after he’d averaged 80.4 a game during his 2019 MVP campaign. This Sunday he had another quiet passing day but ran the ball nine times for 108 yds and a TD. But his best was a 21-yarder with less than two minutes to play, as it gave Baltimore a first down that allowed the team to run out the clock in a game that very nearly went sideways.

Baltimore was overwhelming Philadelphia with its running game during its 17-0 start. But strangely, they almost let the Eagles pull off an upset. Philly bailed them out when Carson Wentz couldn’t run the ball in for a 2-point conversion with just under two minutes remaining.

*Bears 23, Panthers 16.* It has not always been pretty. In fact, it has been mostly ugly. But Chicago held off a Carolina comeback and are now 3-0 on the road and 5-1 overall. The Bears’ defense had a throwback day, forcing three turnovers including a game-saving interception in the final two minutes. In the last 10 seasons, only five of 29 teams that started 5-1 failed to make the playoffs (although one of them was the 2012 Bears).


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 6 of the NFL Season         *Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman, Oct. 18, 2020    _(edited for length by lethe200)_

*Falcons 40, Vikings 23.* The firing of Coach Dan Quinn and the return of Julio Jones were certainly factors in Atlanta’s first win of the season. But when Minnesota’s Kirk Cousins melted down to the tune of three interceptions in the first half, that helped stake Atlanta to such a wide lead the team was in cruise control for most of the day.

*Broncos 18, Patriots 12.* It seemed like NE would have an easy win at home once it was announced that Cam Newton was active, but Denver got six field goals from Brandon McManus and just barely held off a comeback. Newton took his team to Denver’s 24-yard line in the final minute of the game, down by just six points, but the Patriots turned the ball over on downs when Newton’s pass to N’Keal Harry fell incomplete. The lack of speed in the Patriots receiving corps is showing the loss of Gronk, with no replacement in sight. At one point Newton was sacked only after holding onto the ball for almost seven seconds, trying to find any receiver who was open.

*49ers 24, Rams 16.* Clearly challenged by poor playcalling in last week’s stunning loss, Niner HC Shanahan and DC Robert Saleh did a bang-up job with their banged-up team. SF did nearly all of its damage in the first half, but it was enough. Rams pass rusher Aaron Donald was neutralized by having Jimmy Garoppolo get rid of the ball quickly. The secondary got a boost from Emmanuel Moseley’s return from IR to shut down the Rams receivers. The win didn’t stop SF’s lousy luck. Afterwards it was announced that Mostert, their best and most explosive offensive player, was out for at least a month with a high ankle sprain. Yes, the Niners lead the NFL in those too – four players with high ankle sprains already. They also lost Ben Garland, center, indefinitely. Garland is the back-up to the back-up to the first-string center, who happens to be out for the season.

DC Saleh might have to start shanghaiing big guys off the streets to fill all the holes that keep appearing. In case anyone thinks the Niners fans are just whining about bad luck with injuries, the Sunday Night Football analysts highlighted the pain with a graphic...well, graphic. And after Game 6, it got.....worse (updated by lethe200):

The Niners have 24 players on IR: most in the NFL. Of those 24, 15 are either first- or second-string/relief players. Just for contrast, NE has 12 players on injury report and Cincinnati has 7.
In 6 games the Niners have used 67 players: again most in the NFL. And now they need to sign another center.
In their first five games they’ve had five different secondary combinations. They have also used all three QBs.
It’s probably a miracle SF has even won 3 games, at the rate the cart keeps carrying them off the field.

*Dolphins 24, Jets 0.* The Jets were absolutely crushed by Miami. They fell to 0-6 for just the second time in franchise history. They lack a game on their schedule that looks winnable. Coach Adam Gase doubtless has the worst job security in the NFL. It was the full Ryan Fitzpatrick experience, as Miami’s veteran QB threw for three TDs, was intercepted twice, then did a Patrick Mahomes impersonation by completing a short left-handed pass. Tua Tagovailoa made his NFL debut, to mop up a laugher. And Fitzpatrick was leading the cheers for the rookie who will eventually replace him.

*Lions 34, Jaguars 16.* Matthew Stafford threw a TD pass - he now has one against all 31 teams besides Detroit - D’Andre Swift ran for 116 yds and the Lions won so convincingly that Jacksonville Coach Doug Marrone acknowledged afterwards his job may be in jeopardy.

*Giants 20, Footballers 19. *The state of New Jersey will not go winless in 2020. It was not an impressive win, and there’s little reason to expect it to happen again this season. But the Giants hung on 20-19 over the Washington Football Team. Coming into the game the Giants and Jets were both 0-5 for the first time in their shared history, so this 1-point win over one of the NFL’s worst teams qualifies as a high point for the co-tenants of MetLife Stadium.

*Monday Night Football

Cardinals 38, Cowboys 10.* AZ went to 4-2 while Dallas slipped the wrong way to 2-4. QB Kyle Murray used his speed and his arm despite lukewarm stats of 9 passes for 188 yds total. Cards RB Kenyan Drake enjoyed a breakout game, rushing 20 times for 164 yards and two scores. The biggest story was AZ’s defense: four forced turnovers (two fumbles, two interceptions) and a missed FG try. They kept QB Andy Dalton uncomfortable, and two turnovers from RB Ezekiel Elliott only exacerbated the issue. AZ Safety Budda Baker had a spectacular individual performance: He flew around the field all night, tallying seven tackles, a sack, a forced fumble and an interception.

For the losing cause, Dalton finished 34 of 54 through the air for 266 yards, one touchdown to Amari Cooper (seven receptions, 79 yards) and two interceptions. Elliott finished with 12 carries for 49 yards.

*Chiefs 26, Bills 17.* Even Buffalo’s rain couldn’t slow down the Chiefs. KC rolled up 245 rushing yards, 161 of them by rookie tailback Clyde Edwards-Helaire. Coach Andy Reid never has been known for his commitment to the running game and the Chiefs have had to patch together their offensive line, especially after RT Mitchell Schwartz exited the game with a back injury. But there was still aerials to see. Mahomes contributed a pair of first-half touchdown passes to TE Travis Kelce. Overall, he connected on 21 of 26 throws for 225 yards. Kicker Harrison Butker missed an extra point but provided a pair of fourth-quarter FGs. The Chiefs bounced back from their defeat eight days earlier to the Las Vegas Raiders and upped their record to 5-1.


----------



## Kaila

Lethe200 said:


> Top Passer: Matt Ryan



^^^ I would *not* have guessed that!




Lethe200 said:


> Top Runner: Derrick Henry



^^^ I _would_ have guessed that!  He's something to watch.



Lethe200 said:


> Top Receiver: Justin Jefferson



^^^ I wouldn't have guessed that!  
Good but not on my top list.




Lethe200 said:


> Titans 42, Texans 36 (OT).



^^^Did either teams' Defenses play in that game? 

(Poor Houston fans!  36 points and close, but lost, _again  )_




Lethe200 said:


> Dolphins 24, Jets 0.



Did the Jets play in that game?


----------



## DaveA

Can't remember the last time the Patriots were not competitive, maybe around the turn of the century?


----------



## jerry old

Eagles vs Giants tonight
both teams have a winning % of 20%
Really, who will tune in?


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Week 7 Predictions   *Pt 1 of 2
A matchup of 5-0 teams in Tennessee is the week’s main event. And maybe a potential upset in Arizona as Kyler Murray leads his upstart Cardinals against the 5-0 Seahawks.
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman Oct. 22, 2020   _(edited by lethe200)_

*Seattle Seahawks at Arizona Cardinals*, Sunday Night Football on NBC
*UPDATE due to revised time for Raiders/TBay game*
Pick: Seahawks
As dominant as the Seahawks’ (5-0) offense has been this season, Seattle is not exactly running away with games. The team’s average margin of victory is 6.8 pts, while every opponent has scored at least 23 pts. Currently the 3-3 Dolphins (+47)  are one of eight teams that have a better point differential than the 5-0 Seahawks (+34).

Close games are not a good idea with Kyler Murray and the Cardinals (4-2), who are never far from a quick score. Murray is starting to live up to his hype, rushing for six TDs and leading the NFL with 7.3 yds per carry while improving his passing statistics across the board from last season. Both teams can clearly score. Arizona has shown surprisingly more ability to defend. So playing at home, it seems odd AZ is an underdog.

*Pittsburgh Steelers at Tennessee Titans*, 1 p.m., CBS
Pick: Steelers
Pittsburgh (5-0) and their throwbacks: uniforms, QB, defense and roster construction – will take their retro approach to Tennessee. The Titans (5-0) are powered by a power running game centered on RB Derrick Henry, who will face the NFL’s most efficient run defense. The Steelers have not allowed an opposing RB to top 100 yds rushing this season, and only allowed it just three times total over the last three years.

Never rule out a big performance from Henry, who is known for pushing his way through hard contact with ease. But Pittsburgh is a far more complete team than Tennessee and is a worthy favorite on the road.

*GBay Packers at Houston Texans,* 1 p.m., Fox
Pick: Packers
Coming off what was arguably the second-worst start of his career, Aaron Rodgers is likely very angry. He was under constant pressure from TBay’s defense, was sacked more times in that game (four) than he had been in the previous four games combined (three). He threw multiple interceptions for just the 16th time in his career.

For an idea of how unusual that was for Rodgers, the two interceptions equaled his total from the entire 2018 season and raised his interception rate this year to 1.15 percent, which is still the fourth lowest rate among players who have attempted 100 or more passes.

The Texans (1-5) have allowed 13 passing TDs this season (tied for 28th in the NFL) and have just one interception (tied for 32nd). If the Packers (4-1) can cobble together a way to keep J.J. Watt and Whitney Mercilus away from Rodgers, he should be able to pick apart Houston’s defense with ease. But that is suddenly a large if.

*TBay Buccaneers at LVegas Raiders * 
Pick: Buccaneers
****UPDATE*** *The Bucs Sunday night game is moved from primetime due to Raiders COVID-19 uncertainty. The entire offensive line of the Raiders is in isolation with contact tracing. *If the game is played, depending upon repeat negative tests, it will be played Sunday at 4:05 p.m. ET on FOX.*

The Buccaneers (4-2) signed Tom Brady because he rarely makes mistakes (1.4 percent interception rate since 2009), has shown steady leadership, and he can still stretch a field, when he needs to. He just doesn’t do it very often. TBay knows its youthful defense is its future, and the team showed its potential in last week’s dismantling of GBay. TBay was uneven enough in its first five games that it shouldn’t be anointed a contender just yet, but a prime time win on the road against the scrappy Raiders (3-2) might get them there.

*Thursday’s Matchup
Giants at Philadelphia Eagles*, 8:20 p.m., Fox, NFL Network and Prime Video
Pick: Eagles
After watching how poorly Dallas played on Monday night, Philly (1-4-1) has to believe the NFC East is 100 percent winnable despite having just one win through six weeks. They have a QB capable of making great plays, a defense capable of forcing errors, and even with RB Miles Sanders out with a knee injury, Philadelphia can likely beat the Giants (1-5) by pounding the ball with Boston Scott and waiting for Daniel Jones to make a few mistakes.

With a win, the Eagles could potentially take control of their division in a Week 8 matchup with the Cowboys. They just have to stay focused in this game and not let a lesser team beat them at home.

*Sunday’s Other Games
KC Chiefs at Denver Broncos*, 4:25 p.m., CBS
Pick: Chiefs
In Week 6, Drew Lock of the Broncos (2-3) beat the Pats last week in Foxborough. But Lock’s passer rating was 34.9 and all of Denver’s points came on FGs. That will not work against Mahomes and the Chiefs (5-1). But KC often plays down to its opponents level, so Denver may make a game of it for at least a couple of quarters.

Coach Andy Reid said newly signed RB Le’Veon Bell may not play on Sunday, but he was activated and will share the field with Clyde Edwards-Helaire. Could his career be reborn in KC? Anything is possible with Mahomes and Reid. But it is not a given.

*SF 49ers at NE Patriots*, 4:25 p.m., CBS
Pick: Patriots
The 49ers (3-3) desperately want last week to be an indication of their quality, and the Patriots (2-3) are hoping the opposite is true for them. SF opened a big early lead and cruised to a win over the Rams. NE lost at home to Denver despite Cam Newton being given several easy chances to push his team ahead. The truth for both teams is probably somewhere in the middle. The 49ers’ offense needs more from QB Jimmy Garoppolo, and its defense is missing too many important players. The Patriots may not be a top contender, but they’re not “scoring just 12 points against Denver” level bad.

If RB Raheem Mostert were available, this game would have upset potential. But with SF starting a third-string RB, and Newton having shaken off some rust, NE should take care of business at home.


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Week 7 Predictions         *Pt 2 of 2
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman Oct. 22, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Buffalo Bills at Jets*, 1 p.m., CBS
Pick: Bills
People have stopped talking about Josh Allen as a candidate for the NFL’s Most Valuable Player Award. His outrageous four-game start to the season has given way to consecutive disappointing games, and a pair of losses for the Bills (4-2). To be fair, losing to the superior offenses of KC and Tennessee is not an indictment of Allen or his teammates. The Bills’ fireworks should return in earnest vs the Jets (0-6). Gang Green has no one capable of slowing down WRs Stefon Diggs, John Brown and Cole Beasley. Buffalo may want to work out some of its recent frustration on the worst team in the NFL.

*Carolina Panthers at New Orleans Saints,* 1 p.m., Fox
Pick: Saints
Alvin Kamara may want to stretch his legs before this game. The Panthers (3-3) “only” allow 121.3 yds rushing a game - 18th-best in the NFL - but in terms of efficiency they are far worse. They allow an average of 4.9 yds a carry (27th) and have conceded nine rushing TDs (tied for 29th), leaving them rated as the 26th most efficient run defense by Football Outsiders. If the Saints (3-2) want to rest their passing game for a week, Kamara could exploit those weaknesses and carry the team to a slightly narrower win than oddsmakers predicted.

*Jacksonville Jaguars at Los Angeles Chargers,* 4:25 p.m., CBS
Pick: Chargers
This is a matchup of very different one-win teams. The Jaguars (1-5) have lost five straight, have cooled off on offense after a strongish start and have the worst defense in the NFL There is some reason for optimism in the distant future considering the potential of RB James Robinson and the WRs D.J. Chark and Laviska Shenault Jr. But that optimism turning into anything meaningful would involve replacing Gardner Minshew at QB and just about every player on the team’s defense.

The Chargers (1-4) have lost four in a row, but have an extremely bright future with QB Justin Herbert. All four losses were within a TD, twice going to OT. Coming out of a bye week, Los Angeles has several winnable games ahead. The team could theoretically go from a basement-dweller to a fringe playoff contender should Herbert and his solid group of targets (Keenan Allen, Mike Williams and Hunter Henry) stay healthy. Look for a narrow victory.

*Cleveland Browns at Cincinnati Bengals,* 1 p.m., CBS
Pick: Browns
No one throws cold water on enthusiasm quite like the Browns (4-2). Cleveland got off to its best five-game start since 1994 but then proceeded to get demolished so brutally by Pittsburgh last week that Case Keenum, the backup QB, was trending on Twitter by halftime. That might be an overreaction, as Cleveland’s offense should feast on the Bengals (1-4-1), whom they beat by 35-30 in Week 2. But with four games of 32 or more points, and two games of 7 or fewer, it would be fair to label Cleveland as an exciting team that isn’t ready for true contender status.

*Dallas Cowboys at Washington Football Team,* 1 p.m., Fox
Pick: Cowboys
The NFC East is so bad that even after last week’s humiliation at the hands of the Cardinals, the Cowboys (2-4) stayed in first place. And they can cement themselves there by beating the lowly Footballers (1-5) on the road.

There was a lot to not like about Dallas’s performance on Monday night. The pass protection was awful, forcing Andy Dalton into numerous throws he’d like back. And even the throws Dalton had time for didn’t look very good. Ezekiel Elliott made costly mistakes and the Cowboys’ defense made Arizona’s offense look like that of the Baltimore Ravens. There are even rumblings the team is desperately unhappy with Coach Mike McCarthy, who is six games into a five-year contract.

Dalton is not what he once was, but he is probably not as bad as he looked on Monday. Elliott has declined over the last few seasons, but he is not typically a liability. And Dallas, should the team be able to sort out some of those issues, still has an absurd collection of pass-catchers. If that isn’t enough to beat the Footballers, who according to Football Outsiders have the third-worst offense in the NFL, then this division will be even more chaotic - and pointless - the rest of the season.

*Detroit Lions at Atlanta Falcons, *1 p.m., Fox
Pick: Falcons
Teams often get a boost from firing a struggling coach. But to say Raheem Morris taking over for Dan Quinn was the key to the Falcons (1-5) getting their first win of the season would be to ignore the return of receiver Julio Jones to the team’s lineup, and the fact that Vikings QB Kirk Cousins appeared to confuse Atlanta’s defensive backs with his own WRs. But regardless of whom should receive credit, the Falcons have a chance for a second win when they host the Lions (2-3).

Detroit has a more interesting offense than it has had in recent seasons because of the emergence of RB D’Andre Swift and the veteran presence of Adrian Peterson. And the team has won two of its last three games, so it’s not surprising that the point spread is fairly close. But with Jones and Calvin Ridley wreaking havoc on the Lions’ secondary, Atlanta should be able to win even if Detroit’s defense repeats last week’s success in slowing down the run.

*Monday’s Matchup
Chicago Bears at Los Angeles Rams*, 8:15 p.m., ESPN
Pick: Rams
Are the Bears (5-1) better than anyone thought? Nothing about the team’s offense indicates that future opponents have anything to fear, but the Bears’ defense is legitimate enough that you can’t completely write off their success. Going on the road to face the Rams (4-2) should be a good test for Chicago. Los Angeles has several ways to beat a team offensively. With Rams pass rusher Aaron Donald likely smarting from his disappointing performance in last week’s loss to SF, it could be a very long day for Chicago’s Nick Foles.


----------



## Lethe200

OOps! - Please note re those TV times in the above 2 posts on Week 7 predictions:
All times are EDT *except *for Seahawks game which was moved to prime (night) spot: the Seahawks game time listed is for Pacific Daylight Time, not EDT.


----------



## jerry old

From Lethe200's   post:

"The NFC East is so bad that even after last week’s humiliation at the hands of the Cardinals, the Cowboys (2-4) stayed in first place. And they can cement themselves there by beating the lowly Footballers (1-5) on the road."

The only thing that is going to save us from an NFC East team winning the conference with a 5-11 record is they have to play
each other.
Dare we say 6-10 will hurl a team into the playoffs?  That's a tad low,
more like 7-9-nay,  gonn'a go with 6-10

KC is an easy pick, their the new Patriots- win every  Sunday.


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## jerry old

When a team is stripped of their name, they will then be called the Orphans.


Watched first six minutes of Washington Orphans vs Dallas Cowpersons
The Orphans fumbled, the Cowpersons then fumbled in the end zone for a safety.

(Dodgers had a bad case of the fumbles in the 9th inning last night, cost them the game.)

Addendum
Terry Bradshaw called Cowperson's "Horrible." the other pundits on NFL Today spent several minutes scratching their heads trying to
figure out was was wrong with the NFC-East.
It's the defense
It's the.......
Nope, their all just horrible.


----------



## DaveA

Pats crushed by 49ers,  33 - 6.  Cam Newton benched after throwing 3 pics.  The San Francisco defense completely throttled the Patriots.  And considering the 49ers injuries, it tells you how bad the Patriots are this year.


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 7 of the NFL Season          *Pt 1 of 2
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman Oct. 25, 2020 (edited for length by lethe200)

*The NFL moved Seattle’s game in AZ* to the prime time spot. As a result, a national audience was treated to a thriller, with the Seahawks taking a lead in the game’s first four minutes and not trailing again until the final play of OT. AZ kept plugging away, and momentum began to shift in Q4. AZ’s Zane Gonzalez connected on a 48-yard FG that gave the Cardinals a shocking 37-34 victory, further tightening the most competitive division in the NFL.

*Chaos reigns in the NFC East*. By year end this division may be decided by a game of rock paper scissors. The Cowboys went to Washington with a chance of improving to 3-4, which would have put them ahead of 2-4-1 Philadelphia for the division lead. Instead, Dallas fell behind Washington early, lost Andy Dalton to a head injury - forcing its little-known third-stringer, Ben DiNucci, to finish the game - and got blown out, 25-3. Kyle Allen (194 yds passing, two TDs) and Antonio Gibson (128 yds rushing, one TD) had great games for Washington. Just to emphasize how rough things have been in the NFL’s worst division, the team with the worst record in the NFC West - SF - would have a commanding lead in the East.

*Sunday’s Top Performers

Top Passer: Baker Mayfield. *It’s hard to imagine a worse start to a game than having your first pass intercepted, having your team’s best receiver injured on that play and then throwing four consecutive incompletions. But things picked up considerably afterwards for Mayfield, who completed 22 of his final 23 passes for 297 yds and set a new career high with five passing TDs. Mayfield endured a great deal of criticism after last week’s loss to Pittsburgh, and enjoyed his big day.

*Top Runner: Jeff Wilson. *SF’s top RB is Raheem Mostert. Coach Kyle Shanahan has big hopes for second-string Tevin Coleman. The 49ers’ third-stringer is Jerick McKinnon. Because of injuries to all three, the team turned to Wilson on Sunday and the former standout for North Texas had the game of his life, racing for 112 yds and scoring three TDs. But in keeping with the Niners 2020 season, Wilson’s big day ended abruptly when he injured his ankle while scoring his third TD. Wilson has already missed games due to a calf injury and wasn’t even activated until late in the week. Shanahan said afterwards it was “not looking great.”

*Top Receiver: Tyler Lockett. *It’s a coin flip between Lockett and GBay’s Davante Adams, as both receivers had absolutely incredible games. Lockett, however, gets the edge, as he did his damage against Patrick Peterson and a solid AZ defense, while Adams did his against a lousy Houston secondary that lost its best player, Bradley Roby, in the first quarter.

*Sunday’s Games:

Buccaneers 45, Raiders 20.* Tom Brady continued to spread the ball around, throwing TD passes to four different receivers, and TBay kept its momentum from last week’s blowout win over the Packers. Raiders QB Derek Carr actually out-dueled Brady, throwing for 249 yds vs Brady’s 158. But LVegas was less successful than Tampa in the red zone, and were done in by turnovers (3 lost fumbles versus none for the Bucs) and the two TDs by TBay’s special teams play.

*Cardinals 37, Seahawks 34.* Moved to prime time, Seattle and Arizona put on a show for national TV. Russell Wilson threw for 388 yds and rushed for 84. Tyler Lockett had 200 yds receiving and three TDs. Kyler Murray threw for 360 and rushed for 67.

The Hawks dropped to 5-1, while AZ improved to 5-2 when the defense stepped up in Q4 and in OT. The pass rush finally appeared, sacking Wilson twice and pressuring him several other times, leading to Wilson making a bad pass which was intercepted by seldom-used linebacker Isaiah Simmons, putting AZ in the position to win.

AZ had several moments that would have caused a lesser team to quit. AZ’s Budda Baker got chased down by DK Metcalf on what would have been a 98-yard interception return for a TD. Then Zane Gonzalez missed an attempt at a game-winner from 41 yds during the Cardinals’ first possession in OT. Seattle’s Metcalf had what appeared to be a 48-yard game-winning TD in OT, but it was negated by a holding penalty.

*Steelers 27, Titans 24.* In the matchup of unbeaten teams, Pittsburgh got off to a 27-7 start - effectively neutralizing Titan’s RB Derrick Henry - yet the game turned into a 27-24 nail-biter. The Titans’ rebirth came courtesy of three interceptions, the last of which came with less than three minutes remaining and the Steelers clinging to a 3-point lead. But Tennessee, which started the season with three consecutive games decided by the leg of Stephen Gostkowski, had its magic run out. Gostkowski’s 45-yard attempt to tie the game with 19 seconds remaining sailed wide right, leaving Pittsburgh (6-0) as the NFL’s last unbeaten team.

*Chiefs 43, Broncos 16.* Playing in snowy conditions in Denver, the Chiefs were nowhere near their best when they had the ball, going 0 for 8 on third down conversion attempts. But Daniel Sorensen contributed a pick-six, Byron Pringle had a 102-yard kickoff return and the Chiefs demolished the Broncos, 43-16, despite Denver having dramatic advantages in total yds and time of possession. The celebration was fairly muted, as KC was winning by such a wide margin, but Tyreek Hill’s TD catch in the fourth quarter kept a streak alive for Patrick Mahomes: 17 consecutive regular-season games with a TD pass.


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 7 of the NFL Season          *Pt 2 of 2
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman Oct. 25, 2020 (edited for length by lethe200)

*Browns 37, Bengals 34.* Ohio suddenly has an intrastate rivalry. A game between Cincinnati and Cleveland got off to an inauspicious start when Joe Burrow and Baker Mayfield were both intercepted on their first drives. Odell Beckham Jr. was lost to injury on the Browns’ opening drive (and for the season). Fortunately Rashard Higgins stepped up in a big way, with six catches for a career-high 110 yds. The Bengals were leading by 17-10 at halftime.

But in the second half, the game morphed into a heavyweight bout between Mayfield, first pick in the 2018 draft, and Burrow, first pick in 2020. Mayfield won the day, finding Donovan Peoples-Jones for a 24-yard TD with 11 seconds remaining, putting Cleveland ahead to stay 37-34. But Burrow nearly kept up, throwing for 406 yds and three TDs.

*49ers 33, Patriots 6.* Jimmy Garoppolo wasn’t perfect against his former team, but Patriots Coach Bill Belichick must be a little jealous watching his former QB-in-waiting complete 20 of 25 passes for 277 yds in a blowout, while his current QBs, Cam Newton and Jarrett Stidham, combined for 147 yds passing and four interceptions against an injury-depleted Niner D. That Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski continued their fountain of youth act for TBay probably added to the sour taste.

HC Shanahan and DC Saleh have won two in a row but the Niners now face the toughest November of any NFL team. Sunday’s game brought their already league-leading injury report from 19 players up to 21 players – 5 of which are first-string defenders. The SF offense has, for multiple games, lost 2 QBs, 4 RBs, 3 wide receivers, 2 tight ends, 3 centers, and 2 RTs....and we’re not yet halfway thru 2020.

*Packers 35, Texans 20.* Deshaun Watson had a nice second half, and made his team look respectable, but Aaron Rodgers had already given his team an insurmountable lead, compiling a passer rating (132.4) that was nearly 100 points higher than what he managed last week (35.4).

*Saints 27, Panthers 24.* New Orleans completed 12 of its 14 third-down attempts, and got FGs from Wil Lutz after the team’s only two failures. But Panthers’ Teddy Bridgewater kept things far closer than predicted. He threw for 254 yds and two TDs and got some laughs by taking a break on the Saints’ bench, sitting down between his former teammates Drew Brees and Taysom Hill at the end of a play.

But with Carolina trailing by 3 with just over two minutes left, Bridgewater took an 8-yard sack, which essentially decided the game. The sack forced Carolina back to the Saints’ 47-yard line. Joey Slye came out for what would have been an NFL-record 65-yard FG. Slye’s kick was true, but it fell less than a yard short of the crossbar, letting New Orleans hang on for a 27-24 win.

*Bills 18, Jets 10.* Sam Darnold came back from a shoulder injury, but after he barely completed 50 percent of his passes (12 of 23), threw two interceptions and was sacked six times, he might be wondering why he didn’t take another week to heal. The Jets are 0-7 for just the second time in franchise history and could match the franchise’s worst start (0-8 in 1996) with a loss in KC next week. Buffalo, meanwhile, will start searching for its offense after the team failed to break 20 points for a third consecutive game.

*Chargers 39, Jaguars 29.* Justin Herbert finally got his first career win in a big way by throwing for 347 yds and three TDs, while also running in a score. Herbert has thrown for at least 250 yds in each of his first five starts, a feat previously only accomplished by Patrick Mahomes, who did it in his first 10.

*Lions 23, Falcons 22.* Detroit didn’t get much production out of its RBs, but Matthew Stafford threw for 340 yds and a TD and the Lions won for the third time in four games. It seems Atlanta can always find a new way to lose. The Falcons were trailing Detroit by 2 in the game’s final two minutes when Atlanta’s Todd Gurley II broke free for an easy 10-yard TD. Aware of the amount of time remaining, Gurley tried to fall down at the 1-yard line, in hopes of chewing up some clock. Unfortunately, he misjudged the distance, barely breaking the plane of the end zone for a go-ahead TD.

That mistake gave the Lions 1 minute 4 seconds to go 75 yds, and they did just that, with Matthew Stafford hitting TE T.J. Hockenson for an 11-yard TD as time expired in Detroit’s 23-22 victory. This was the 36th game-winning drive of Stafford’s career, according to Pro Football Reference, which trails only Drew Brees (37) since 2009.

*Footballers 25, Cowboys 3.* Dallas (2-5) began its season with great optimism. But injuries to Dak Prescott and Andy Dalton, and a bad loss to Washington, have the team on the trade market, with rumblings from top to bottom of locker room discontent. After Dallas QB Dalton received what many saw as a dirty shoulder-to-helmet hit from Washington linebacker Jon Bostic, there was a lot of external and internal criticism for the Cowboys not fighting back to defend their injured QB.

The pass protection for all Dallas QBs has been mediocre all year. Ben DiNucci, a rookie out of James Madison, completed the game with 2 of 3 for 39 passing yds and will start next week. The next QB on the depth chart is Garrett Gilbert, who has played for the Patriots, Rams, Panthers and Browns, throwing a total of six passes.

It’s only the second time since 2004 Dallas has been held to just 3 pts. They trailed in yds, 397-142, and first downs, 21-12. They were 3 for 12 on third-down conversions and 0 for 1 on fourth down, when they mysteriously called a passing play on fourth-and-1. Dalton was pressured and threw it incomplete. RB Ezekiel Elliott isn’t getting the job done. He was held to just 45 yds rushing, had a ball bounce off him for an interception and made mistakes in pass protection.


----------



## jerry old

Lethe200
*"Chaos reigns in the NFC East*. By year end this division may be decided by a game of rock paper scisso...

Cowboys do not want to be involved in any complex game like Rock, Paper, scissors...
Plight of Cowboy fans


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## jerry old

All Rightttt, Falcons and Panthers
Wait, the Falcons caught the virus rampant in the NFC-East when they played Dallas.
What is the NFC-East Virus-were going to stink up this game, it is called the El Stinko Virus.

So, you already the Falcons cannot win, turn off TV read...


----------



## jerry old

Crowd Noise
I  have wondered about this all season.
Why can't we watch a game without the pumped in crowd noise?
The crowd noise often makes the announcers commentary difficult to hear.

Also, i don't need to know the players personal problems, nor the 'silly,' 'He had small pox when he was twelve.'
We have to have a commentator, which gives us the play-by-play, a color announcer which often tells us information we don't need to know.
'Harold has had his problems with drugs, domestic violence, his coaches, his fellow players, he appears confused...'


----------



## jerry old

Figured out the Dallas Cowboys:
The entire squad is made up of gentlemen:

The offensive line is not offensive
The defensive line is not offensive
The running backs feel it is only fair to 'put the ball on the ground,' giving their opponents a chance;
they all played years of soccer (no hands on the ball).


----------



## jerry old

Bonnie, way back when-you posted an interest in the Cleveland Browns-right?
Mayfield is finally living up to his first round draft ranking.
I just want to see Cleveland and Cinny, give the Bully Boys (Steelers and Ravens) a thumping.
(pull up the Browns in the 1960's a real powerhouse)


----------



## JustBonee

jerry old said:


> Bonnie, way back when-you posted an interest in the Cleveland Browns-right?
> Mayfield is finally living up to his first round draft ranking.
> I just want to see Cleveland and Cinny, give the Bully Boys (Steelers and Ravens) a thumping.
> (pull up the Browns in the 1960's a real powerhouse)



@jerry old   ..Jerry ... I go waaaaaaaaay back with the Browns.   I grew up near Cleveland ... talking  40's, 50's, 60's  .... when the NFL revolved around Jim Brown - that far back!   Mostly 50's. ....   can't say that I've really followed them since those days. 

BUT ... am glad that they are starting to make a respectable comeback.  'bout time!   ..
Pittsburgh and Baltimore  have been running that division  a long time now.


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Week 8 Predictions: Our Picks       *Part 1 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Oct. 29, 2020  _(edited by lethe200)_

*Thursday’s Matchup: Falcons 25, Panthers 17*
Atlanta looked like it might be blowing another fourth-quarter lead, but Blidi Wreh-Wilson intercepted a Teddy Bridgewater pass that saved the day for the Falcons, who improved to 2-6 with the road victory.

RB Christian McCaffrey ended up staying on IR, and his absence doomed the Panthers after Atlanta’s Matt Ryan (281 yds passing), Julio Jones (137 yds receiving) and Younghoe Koo (four field goals) proved too much.

*Sunday’s Best Games* _(all times EST–set your clocks back on Saturday!)_
Pittsburgh Steelers at Baltimore Ravens, 1 p.m., CBS
Pick: Ravens
The Steelers (6-0) worked for their win over Tennessee, surviving to become the NFL’s last remaining unbeaten team. That status could be tested by the Ravens (5-1), who are coming out of a bye week.

This is the 25th time that Coach John Harbaugh has faced Coach Mike Tomlin, which will set a record for the Super Bowl era, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. The matchup is a case of strength against strength: Pittsburgh’s top-rated NFL run defense vs Baltimore’s stable of RBs.

The Steelers minimized the mighty Titans RB Derrick Henry last week, proving how tough they can be, but it’s worth noting that the last player to top 100 yds rushing against Pittsburgh was Gus Edwards, who is effectively the third or fourth option for Baltimore on any running play but may have an increased role with Mark Ingram out with an ankle injury.

The teams excel at defending both the run and the pass. They both pass the ball and run the ball fairly well. And they both are legitimate Super Bowl contenders. That this game is wasted in a 1 p.m. time slot, while a putrid NFC East matchup between Philadelphia and Dallas is in prime time, is unforgivable. But it should at least give Sunday an exciting start.

*LA Rams at Miami Dolphins, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Rams
QB Ryan Fitzpatrick may have expressed disappointment that Tua Tagovailoa had been named starting QB for the Dolphins (3-3), but the move makes perfect sense. Miami is playing about as well as can be expected considering the state of the team’s rebuild, but even that good fortune does not have the Dolphins in line for a playoff spot despite the expanded format. Acknowledging that the team’s long-term future hinges on its 22-year-old rookie, rather than a nearly-38-year-old with a 58-86-1 career record is not exactly a controversial stance.

Tagovailoa will have a tough debut in facing the Rams’ fairly good secondary, led by cornerback Jalen Ramsey, and the looming presence of five-time All Pro DT Aaron Donald, who would enjoy welcoming a rookie QB to the NFL by hugging him tightly several times.

*SF 49ers at Seattle Seahawks, 4:25 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Seahawks
After daring teams to beat them in its first five games, Seattle finally found a jam it couldn’t wriggle its way out of in an OT loss to AZ. In that game, the Seahawks (5-1) allowed 519 yds, stacking up a whopping 2,875 for the season, which is an NFL record through six games, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

That stat isn’t everything, but Seattle is also 23rd in points allowed per game, 24th in net yds allowed per passing attempt, 31st in passing yds allowed and 30th in first downs allowed. This is not a blip: Seattle is bad defensively.

The question is if 49ers QB Jimmy Garoppolo can exploit that awful Seahawks pass defense to the extent of keeping up with a highly motivated Russell Wilson. The Niners are missing the explosive WR Raheem Mostert and their best RB Deebo Samuels. And they are so banged up on defense that if DC Saleh wasn’t already bald, he’d be losing hair by the handfuls. They started Week 7 with 19 players on injury report and ended their fourth win by adding two more for a league-leading 21 players on IR.

The NFC West is the toughest division in the NFL. All four teams are now over .500. Niners HC Shanahan and his staff have performed magic with very few props, but a killer November schedule and that miles-long IR is stacking the odds against them. Their only saving grace is Seattle’s CB Shaquill Griffin (concussion) and safety Jamal Adams (groin/illness) are also out for Wk 8.

*Tennessee Titans at Cincinnati Bengals, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Titans
This is expected to be the highest scoring game of the week. The Titans (5-1) have an electric offense led by Ryan Tannehill and Derrick Henry. The Bengals (1-5-1) have been loving life with QB Joe Burrow, regardless of their poor record so far.

This game could easily have the look of a Pro Bowl, with defenders lazily jogging in the background of offensive highlight videos. But while Burrow will likely win games like this at some point, it’s hard to believe he can overcome Tannehill and Henry at this stage of his career.


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Week 8 Predictions: *Our Picks                  Part 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Oct. 29, 2020 (edited by lethe200)

*Sunday’s Other Games

NE Patriots at Buffalo Bills, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Bills
Early in the season these teams looked like two of the NFL’s best. Since then, the Bills’ (5-2) offensive struggles joined their defensive issues. The Patriots (2-4) have outdone that by simply being awful in their 3-game losing streak. A case could be made that one of these teams will leave Sunday’s game with some momentum, but Buffalo managed to attract even more doubters when it “only” beat the Jets, 18-10, last week, without scoring a single TD.

TV commentator Jeff Garcia made the fatuous statement that Cam Newton’s postgame outfits were the cause of the Pats’ problems, rather than any legitimate reasons like, say, the team’s defense, which has been flailing ineffectively against the run and the pass.

*LA Chargers at Denver Broncos, 4:05 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Chargers
Justin Herbert of the Chargers (2-4) had been lighting up the record books and fans despite losing close games. He finally got an easy win over Jacksonville last week. The stakes aren’t high against the Broncos (2-4), but winnable games against lesser teams are good practice for a rookie QB.

This game comes with the added complication of being in Denver’s thin air, but with Chargers DE Melvin Ingram expected to return on defense, and WR Keenan Allen looking fully healthy on offense, Herbert should get his first winning streak.

*Minnesota Vikings at GBay Packers, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Packers
The Vikings (1-5) aren’t rebuilding. This off-season they jettisoned most of the recognizable names on their defense, and traded away one of their best offensive players for draft picks, but this is not a rebuilding effort. They have been very clear about this. If you think they are rebuilding, you are wrong.

When last seen, Minnesota’s not-rebuilding defense, which features multiple rookies in its secondary, was humiliated by previously-winless Atlanta. Now that same group of players gets to try its hand at stopping Aaron Rodgers and the Packers (5-1) in GBay. Expect a Packers victory, probably by as many points as GBay wants, but the likelihood is that Kirk Cousins picks up a few garbage time TDs.

*Indianapolis Colts at Detroit Lions, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Colts
Through his first five games in Indianapolis, the knock on Philip Rivers was that he struggled mightily when the Colts (4-2) fell behind. Then in Week 6, he fell behind by 21 points before catching fire and throwing for three TDs, putting up 371 yds, 31 points and tying for the largest regular season comeback in franchise history - against Cincinnati’s truly atrocious defense.

The Lions (3-3) present an interesting challenge. On a three-game win streak, Detroit has benefited from a soft part of the schedule, but has been executing far better than before. Their win over AZ in Week 3 shows their success can’t be entirely dismissed.

Colts linebacker Darius Leonard may be back from a groin injury this week, which dramatically improves the team’s defense. But Indianapolis will be favored even if he needs another week.

*Jets at KC Chiefs, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Chiefs
In 1996 the Jets suffered an 8-game losing streak. They won a game versus the Cardinals, then lost their final 7 games to boot. Playing on the road against the formidable Chiefs (6-1) seems to guarantee the 2020 Jets will match that 0-8 start.

KC has developed a bad habit of playing down to the level of their opponent, but no one can expect the reigning Super Bowl champ will sink to the level of these Jets.

*LVegas Raiders at Cleveland Browns, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Browns
If you like to see QBs chuck the ball down the field with impunity, this is the game for you. The Raiders (3-3) and Browns (5-2) have two of the 10 worst pass defenses in the NFL, a stat borne out by both teams allowing opponents more than 30 points a game.

But Cleveland defends the run better than LVegas does, and also runs the ball better. It makes the Browns a narrow favorite in what is likely to be a shootout.

*New Orleans Saints at Chicago Bears, 4:25 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Saints
The Bears (5-2) have a great defense, but a lousy offense with possible locker room issues between QB Nick Foles and HC Matt Nagy on playcalling. The Saints (4-2) are fighting the born-again Bucs for first place in the NFC South so every game counts. The Saints have won five straight against Chicago – the Bears haven't beaten them since 2008. They're not likely to start now, as Allen Robinson, Cody Whitehair, Cordarrelle Patterson and Khalil Mack are all dealing with various ailments.

*Dallas Cowboys at Philadelphia Eagles, 8:20 p.m., NBC*
Pick: Eagles
The Cowboys and Eagles have a lot in common. They both play in the NFC East. Neither of them is very good. Both teams are riddled with injuries. And now, they both could have FCS quarterbacks leading their offenses. Oh yeah - they both have only two wins apiece halfway through the season but can still win their division with a win on Sunday night. Isn't the NFC East just so fun!?

This Dallas-Philly matchup probably doesn’t deserve its prime time spot. Both teams would be write-offs in any other division. Carson Wentz is having the worst statistical season of his career: 30th in completion rate (58 percent), 28th in passer rating (74.3), and last in both interceptions (10) and sacks taken (28). But Wentz looked a lot better last week in a win, and his receivers are getting healthy.

Dallas is stuck with Ben (who?) DiNucci filling in for a concussed Andy Dalton. It leads the NFL where a team shouldn’t: gives up the most points per game (34.7); forced the least # of turnovers (3); allowed the most rushing yds (1,248) and ranks 30th in TDs allowed (11).

*Monday’s Matchup
TBay Buccaneers at Giants, 8:15 p.m., ESPN*
Pick: Buccaneers
Brady and Gronk are proving a magic combo once again. Although the Giants played their last four opponents fairly tight and TBay is down a key player on offense, it’s hard to see how the Giants and Daniel Jones could pull off a win even at home.


----------



## jerry old

Lethe200 gives us game of the week
Steelers vs Ravens-get the bandages, ambulances ready for this head-knocker

Raiders vs Cleveland-both trying to become a winning team, both still not quite there

Jets at KC-a laugher

Saints vs Bears-Bears are boring, uniforms are boring, offense is boring-since the 80's ,but
defense will hand you your head.  Bears to beat a old, tired Saint team


----------



## Lethe200

Re KC vs Jets, Week 8, Chiefs won 35-9:
The Chiefs showed no mercy. Mahomes passed for 5 TDs. In 8 games, he now has a 5-passing TD game and TWO 6-TD passing games.

The Jets have *a total of 4 TDs *in 2020, as a team.

I think we're all surprised Adam Gase still has the job as HC......


----------



## jerry old

Watched Steelers and Raven thump each other around.  
Jackson's two int and Raven's fumble killed them
A good rock'um-sock'um ball game.

Steller's have an off week next; well not really-they get to play Cowboys
which is the same as an off week. 

Looks like Miami is for real

Seattle and SF are playing right now.
We won't see it,  NBC demands that we watch Cowboys and Eagles  

Lethe200 wants to move Jets to NFC-East conference.  The owners said 'no way,' the Jets would
win the division.


----------



## DaveA

jerry old said:


> Crowd Noise
> I  have wondered about this all season.
> Why can't we watch a game without the pumped in crowd noise?
> The crowd noise often makes the announcers commentary difficult to hear.
> 
> Also, i don't need to know the players personal problems, nor the 'silly,' 'He had small pox when he was twelve.'
> We have to have a commentator, which gives us the play-by-play, a color announcer which often tells us information we don't need to know.
> 'Harold has had his problems with drugs, domestic violence, his coaches, his fellow players, he appears confused...'


I don't mind the "fake" crowd noise but agree with you regarding all of the personal stuff that we don't need to hear.  Things related to the game, a players trades, health issues from injuries, etc., they makes sense but the rest of it is just "noise".


----------



## Lethe200

Biggest upset of Week 8: the Vikes upset the Pack:

*Dalvin Cook's 4 TDs make history as Vikings upset Packers*
ESPN Nov 1, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

In his first game back since suffering an adductor strain in Seattle three weeks ago, Vikings running back Dalvin Cook made history in Minnesota's 28-22 upset win over the Green Bay Packers on Sunday.

Cook became the first player to score a touchdown on each of his team's first four possessions of a game since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970, according to Elias Sports Bureau research.

Cook's monster day in Green Bay puts him in elite company. He is the third player in franchise history to record four TDs in a game, a feat first achieved by Chuck Foreman in 1975 and then by Ahmad Rashad four years later. He joined Barry Sanders, Walter Payton and Adrian Peterson as the only players in NFL history with multiple games with at least 150 rushing yards against the Packers in their careers.

He is also the first player ever to surpass 200 yards from scrimmage and score four TDs against the Packers at Lambeau Field. Of Minnesota's 324 net yards of offense, Cook accounted for 163 yards on 30 carries and caught two passes for 63 yards, including his career-long 50-yard catch on a screen pass that resulted in his fourth and final touchdown.

Cook's day impacted the load Cousins had to carry. The Vikings QB attempted only 14 passes Sunday and averaged 1.79 air yards, the second fewest by any player with 10-plus attempts over the past 15 seasons, according to ESPN Stats & Information research. Cousins' longest pass of the game was 8 air yards.

Sunday marked the first win of Cook's career at Lambeau Field. The Vikings are now 2-5 after starting out the season with three straight losses.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 8 of the NFL Season*       Pt 1 of 2
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 1, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*The Vikings may be rebuilding, but they’re all set at RB. *Minnesota has taken its share of abuse during a rough season. But regardless of the team’s defensive woes, no team with a RB as good as Dalvin Cook is without hope. In a 28-22 upset victory at GBay. Cook ran for 163 yds, picked up another 63 through the air and scored four TDs. Minnesota’s defense came out of nowhere to fluster Aaron Rodgers down the stretch, and while the Vikings’ record improved to only 2-5, the team earned some NFC North bragging rights.

*The Steelers are for real.* Despite being the last undefeated team in the NFL, the Steelers had faced some lingering questions about how good they really were. Those questions will probably fade after the Steelers held on for a thrilling 28-24 win on the road in Baltimore. The Steelers conceded 265 yds rushing to the Ravens, but forced Lamar Jackson into several mistakes. Jackson, the reigning NFL most valuable player, was intercepted twice and lost two fumbles. Baltimore still had a chance to win in the final seconds, getting all the way to Pittsburgh’s 23-yard line while trailing by 4 points, but Jackson’s final pass fell incomplete as time expired.

The Steelers have now matched their 1978 squad for the best start in franchise history, and the team would undoubtedly like it noted that it won the Super Bowl that season.

*Russell Wilson is building his MVP case. *The Seahawks QB has never received a single vote for the Most Valuable Player Award, but he is up to 26 TD passes in just seven games - only one fewer than Peyton Manning had in 2008 when he was named MVP. The total also matches or exceeds 10 single-season outputs of other QBs who have been named MVP since the 1970AFL-NFL merger. Wilson had four TDs in Sunday’s 37-27 win over SF, which kept him comfortably ahead of Patrick Mahomes, who threw for five in a blowout win over the Jets to improve to 21 for the season.

*Joe Burrow is slippery. *He’d had good statistics in several games this season, but Burrow showed just how great he could be in the Bengals’ 31-20 win over the favored Titans. He outplayed Ryan Tannehill and put up enough points that a 112-yard game from Tennessee RB Derrick Henry didn’t matter. A pair of fourth-quarter TD passes were exactly what Cincinnati needed to secure its second win of the season, but Burrow will be on this week’s highlight reels for a meaningless third-down play in the third quarter (above) that went for just 7 yds. Under intense pressure, he spun his way through two would-be sacks and escaped to get positive yardage on a play that looked as if it would lose as many as 10. Cincinnati punted on the next down, but the play will stay in the heads of opposing pass-rushers.

*Darius Leonard has great timing.* The superstar linebacker for the Colts had been out with a groin injury since Week 4, but returned just in time. Indianapolis was clinging to a 20-14 lead in the fourth quarter and Detroit had reached the Colts’ 25-yard line. Leonard then burst into the backfield, knocking the ball out of Matthew Stafford’s hands for a fumble that was recovered by the Colts’ Justin Houston. The stomach punch to the Lions’ morale was extreme and the Colts were able to dominate the rest of the way in a 41-21 win that improved the team’s record to 5-2.

*Sunday’s Top Performers

Top Passer: Patrick Mahomes*
The performance should, perhaps, be graded on a curve as it came against the lowly Jets, but Mahomes seemed to have more fun than he has at any point this season. He topped 400 yds passing for the fourth time in his career and added a new trick to his formidable repertoire by going with an underhanded toss to Travis Kelce for one of his five TD passes. Mahomes played so well that he watched his team’s final possession from the sideline, letting backup Chad Henne get some work in garbage time.

*Top Runner: Dalvin Cook*
Getting his team a win over rival GBay trumps any individual accomplishments, but Cook carved his name into the Minnesota record books by joining Chuck Foreman and Ahmad Rashad as the only Vikings players to score four TDs in a single game. He was also the first player in NFL history to score TDs on each of his team’s first four possessions.

*Top Receiver: DK Metcalf*
With every performance like this it becomes harder and harder to believe that Metcalf lasted 64 picks into the 2019 draft before Seattle called his name. Metcalf stands 6 feet 4 inches, weighs 230 pounds and runs a 4.33 40-yard dash, making him the type of receiver you would create in a game of “Madden,” rather than one you’d expect to encounter in real life. Metcalf has made it his mission to outplay each of the eight WRs taken before him last year, but Russell Wilson thinks Metcalf can set his sights quite a bit higher. “I don’t think there is anybody better in terms of what he can do and how he’s done it,” Wilson said after Sunday’s win. “And he’s only in his second year.”


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 8 of the NFL Season* Pt 2 of 2
NYTimes by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 1, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games* _*Except when it takes more._
*Steelers 28, Ravens 24.* Baltimore was at home, and was up by 10 at halftime, only to fall apart in the second half. Pittsburgh now has a two-game lead over the Ravens in the ultracompetitive AFC North. Pittsburgh’s rookie WR Chase Claypool has seven TDs over his last three games, and his 8-yard score on Sunday put the Steelers ahead to stay in Q4.

*Bengals 31, Titans 20.* Cincinnati was again without RB Joe Mixon, but Giovani Bernard did his part in the upset with 78 yds from scrimmage and two TDs. The Bengals have a way to go before anyone will be scared of them, but Coach Zac Taylor got his first career win over a team with a winning record and the Bengals matched their 2019 win total (two).

*Vikings 28, Packers 22.* Minnesota gave Aaron Rodgers the ball down by 6 with 47 seconds remaining at Lambeau Field. All too many times in Rodgers’s career a setup like that meant GBay was about to storm to victory. This time, the Vikings’ beleaguered defense held strong, allowing a few completions before getting a devastating strip-sack from D.J. Wonnum that sent the ball flying and allowed the clock to run out.

*Broncos 31, Chargers 30.* Justin Herbert seemed well on his way to his first career winning streak by having his team leading by 24-10 entering the fourth quarter. Denver’s Drew Lock spent three quarters running away from Melvin Ingram and the Chargers defense, but then he found a groove in the fourth. LA managed only two field goals in the final 15 minutes, while Denver’s Drew Lock responded with three TD passes, including a 1-yarder to K.J. Hamler as time expired. The score - along with the extra point - gave the Broncos a crucial win at home.

*Seahawks 37, 49ers 27.* It wouldn’t be Sunday if the 49ers didn’t lose a RB to injury. They kept that bad luck going by having Tevin Coleman - who was playing in his first game since Week 2 - ruled out when he hurt his knee after some modestly successful yardage. If there was an award for the Most Valuable Players Lost During A Season, the 2020 Niners would win by unanimous count. At the start of the game their IR count went down to 20 with Coleman’s return, only to go even higher by the end with both QB Jimmy Garoppolo and TE George Kittle lost again onto IR for indefinite periods.

*Colts 41, Lions 21.* Jordan Wilkins picked up the bulk of the Colts’ yardage on the ground, but his fellow RB Nyheim Hines stole the show with a pair of receiving TDs, each of which he celebrated with gymnastlike floor routines in the end zone.

*Chiefs 35, Jets 9.* The Jets fell to 0-8 for just the second time in franchise history. A “Monday Night Football” matchup against the reeling Patriots is theoretically the team’s best bet for a win for this year’s Jets as well, although even that is far from a given.

*Dolphins 28, Rams 17.* Miami didn’t get big offensive yardage the way it did with Ryan Fitzpatrick under center, but the team increased its winning streak to three games, outscoring opponents by 95-34 in that stretch. Tua Tagovailoa didn’t win as much as Jared Goff lost. On the second play of his first start, Tagovailoa of the Dolphins was welcomed to the NFL by the Rams’ Aaron Donald, who ripped the ball out for a strip-sack turnover. LA capitalized with a TD on the ensuing drive, but then Goff self-destructed. He threw two interceptions and lost two fumbles, which allowed the Dolphins to reel off 28 consecutive points in a 28-17 victory.

As the wheels fell off for LA, Miami rose up as a team. The Dolphins scored on a 78-yard fumble recovery and an 88-yard punt return in addition to a pair of TDs from the team’s offense. Tagovailoa completed just 12 of 22 passes for 93 yds, but his career record is 1-0 just the same.

*Bills 24, Patriots 21.* Josh Allen was limited once again, and Buffalo barely held off NE despite the Patriots missing several key players. The Bills have a solid lead in the AFC East, but it’s worth noting that their point differential for the season is -1, while the second-place Dolphins are +58.

*Saints 26, Bears 23. *Wil Lutz of the Saints kicked an OT game-inning 35-yard field goal in overtime to help New Orleans improve to 5-2. Saints RB Alvin Kamara leads the team in receptions (55), receiving yards (556), rushes (87) and rushing yards (431). He is on pace to amass 2,256 yards from scrimmage, which would rank 15th all-time in NFL history, and would be an absolutely incredible feat considering that HC Sean Payton doesn’t actually like to run the ball much. Week 9, when the Saints travel to Tampa to face the Bucs in a crucial contest that could decide the NFC South, is a chance to see two all-time greats in Brady and Brees.

*Raiders 16, Browns 6.* A nasty, rainy, freezing day in Cleveland kept the two high-scoring offenses remarkably quiet. Las Vegas looked far more comfortable grinding things out than Cleveland did, getting 128 yds on the ground from RB Josh Jacobs on a day when neither team’s QB threw for even 125 yds. Jacobs doesn’t get much national notice, but his first year (although cut short by injury) was good enough to put him in contention as one of the top two candidates for 2019 Rookie of the Year before a foot injury sidelined him for the final 3 games of the season. He’s an explosive runner with an excellent carry average of 5 yds/carry, but Gruden’s schemes still haven’t worked Jacobs in as a receiver yet. If they ever do it, it would take the pass rush pressure off Raiders QB Derek Carr, who isn’t immobile but prefers to be a classic dropback QB, with one of the strongest and most accurate arms in the NFL.

*Eagles 23, Cowboys 9.* There was nothing exciting or entertaining about this game that featured six combined turnovers including an intentional safety. Philadelphia won mostly by default - and in doing so took a fairly large lead in the NFC East with a mediocre 3-4-1 record.


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## Lethe200

If you get a chance to watch a Seahawks game on TV, keep an eye on wide receiver DK Metcalf. The guy is a MONSTER. He makes everyone in the secondary - and I mean every team I've seen Seattle play against - look like high schoolers trying to catch a superhero. 

Think Marshawn Lynch - but taller and with blazing speed. I'm a Niners fan (as well as Raiders, Chiefs, and Saints), but Metcalf is absolutely Hall of Fame potential if he stays healthy. Hard to believe he got passed over 64x before getting drafted in 2019!


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## jerry old

Metcalf, another gaff by the all   knowing General Managers and scouts in the NFL. (Tom Brady # 240 draft choice).
The NFC West  and the -AFC North  is  where the  good games are: Steelers and Ravens knocked heads last Sunday.,
Big Ben can still run a team like Russel in Seattle.


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## Lethe200

*NFL Week 9 Predictions                                *Pt 1 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 5, 2020 _(edited by Lethe2000)_

After several upsets last week, the NFL was left with a few top-tier contenders (Pittsburgh, KC, TBay, Seattle) and a wide middle zone of teams that can surprise you on any given week. And, of course, the Giants and the Jets are bringing up the rear.

*Thursday’s Matchup: Packers 34, 49ers 17*
The Niners secondary is made up of players so new, even the analysts have no idea who they are. They didn’t stand a chance against the Packers (6-2). Aaron Rodgers threw for 305 yards and four touchdowns, getting most of that production from Davante Adams (10 catches for 173 yards and a touchdown) and Marquez Valdes-Scantling (two catches for 53 yards and two touchdowns). Green Bay won easily, 34-17.

For the next few weeks Niners QB Nick Mullens will show if he can run Shanahan’s complex offense, which is a lot less complex these days. Without their fearsome defense and a damaged offensive line, the Niners are stuck firmly at the bottom of the NFC West.

The 49ers (4-5) have barely kept their collective head above water as injuries mounted, but that black hole just keeps getting bigger. QB Jimmy Garoppolo and TE George Kittle went out for the season, back-up RB Tevin Coleman is injured again, as is star WR Deebo Samuel. The team is missing numerous defensive starters.

SF could start its own hospital. It has a whopping injury list of 22 or 23 players, depending on how you’re counting – and 16 of those are starters. After Game 9 it was reported a fifth Niner has suffered a high ankle sprain, cornerback K’Wuan Williams. Having to shut down their practice facility for a full virus cleaning the day before meeting the Packers didn’t help, either.

*Sunday’s Best Games

Baltimore Ravens at Indianapolis Colts, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Ravens
The Colts (5-2) should be an excellent test of the Ravens’ resolve. Indianapolis has been nearly as effective as Baltimore on offense and has a defense that is equally adept at defending the pass and the run. For all intents and purposes, this game is something of a tossup, which is less of an indictment of Baltimore than it is an endorsement of Indianapolis. The Ravens could easily bounce back, but this matchup is close enough to lean toward the home underdog.

*Seattle Seahawks at Buffalo Bills, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Seahawks
Russell Wilson reminded everyone why he is the front-runner for the league’s Most Valuable Player Award in last week’s win over SF, but the defensive shortcomings of the Seahawks (6-1) were apparent even in that 10-point victory. It is with that imbalance between its offense and defense that Seattle travels to face the Bills (6-2). With no fans in attendance, and an expected game time temperature of 71 degrees, it is about as neutral a setting as the Seahawks could hope for.

That being said, Buffalo is not nearly as bad offensively as it looked in the last few weeks, and Seattle may have its hands full unless safety Jamal Adams is fully recovered from his groin injury.

*Miami Dolphins at Arizona Cardinals, 4:25 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Cardinals
There are so many reasons to watch this game. The Cardinals (5-2) have been a delight in Year 2 of the Kliff Kingsbury/Kyler Murray era, upsetting Seattle in OT two weeks ago. And the Dolphins (4-3) are the surprise of the season, routing the 49ers and the Rams in recent weeks.

The open question for Miami’s offense is if it can get more out of the rookie QB Tua Tagovailoa. Journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick was undoubtedly antsy watching his replacement pass for only 93 yds last week. Arizona must figure out its running game if Kenyan Drake is out or limited by an ankle injury. But Arizona is further along in its development and playing at home, making them favored.

*New Orleans Saints at TBay Buccaneers, 8:20 p.m., NBC*
Pick: Buccaneers
Antonio Brown is expected to play for the Buccaneers (6-2) after serving an eight-game suspension from the NFL for off-field misconduct. Having played only one game in the past 23 months, how much he is involved in TBay’s offense may come down to the health of Chris Godwin, who is hoping to return from a broken finger. With Mike Evans, Rob Gronkowski and Godwin on the field, there wouldn’t be many targets left for Brown, but if Godwin sits, QB Tom Brady may try to lean on the receiver whom he campaigned for his team to sign.

TBay has an ungenerous defense, and plenty of offensive upside. But it is worth wondering if the team should be favored by so much against the Saints (5-2) when it managed only a 2-point win against the Giants on Monday.


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## Lethe200

*NFL Week 9 Predictions                                *Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 5, 2020 _(edited by Lethe2000)_

*Sunday’s Other Games
Pittsburgh Steelers at Dallas Cowboys, 4:25 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Steelers

In QB Ben DiNucci’s first career start, the Cowboys (2-6) managed 9 points against Philadelphia. This week, Dallas faces a far more formidable Steelers (7-0) defense, making it reasonable to wonder just how much uglier things can get, as either Garrett Gilbert or Cooper Rush will start in place of DiNucci.

The Steelers have now matched the longest unbeaten streak to start a season in franchise history. But if there is any reason to be skeptical of a rout, it is that Pittsburgh has won only one game by more than 10 points this season. A moral victory for the Cowboys would be losing by “only” 9 or 10, but if the team’s fourth and fifth options at QB don’t have a different gear from what DiNucci showed last week, even that seems far-fetched. It doesn’t help that Dallas’ Ezekiel Elliott is hobbled with a strained hamstring. He may play on Sunday, but he hasn’t been very effective this year even when healthy.

*Carolina Panthers at KC Chiefs, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Chiefs
The Chiefs (7-1) learned a lesson from their monumental letdown against LVegas in Week 5. They followed that loss with a convincing road win against the Bills and have won consecutive blowouts, beating the Broncos and the Jets by a combined score of 78-25. That dominance has forced Patrick Mahomes into the MVP debate with Seattle’s Russell Wilson. KC is a legitimate threat to successfully defend last year’s Super Bowl win.

The Panthers (3-5) are not so much a pushover as they are overmatched, even if RB Christian McCaffrey is making his much anticipated return from injury. The only thing that could slow KC is the team’s disinterest, but piling on against the Jets last week seemed to indicate the Chiefs aren’t taking games off anymore.

*LVegas Raiders at LA Chargers, 4:05 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Chargers
The Raiders (4-3) escaped with a win on a chilly Sunday in Cleveland, grinding out the game on the ground with their first 200-yard rushing game of the season. A trip to LA to face the Chargers (2-5) should let LVegas return to its aerial attack. This could be a shootout, with Derek Carr and Justin Herbert matching strong throwing arms. LAC has the ability to run up a huge lead, but the team’s propensity for squandering such leads has officially become troubling, so the bettors’ point spread is narrow.

*Chicago Bears at Tennessee Titans, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Titans
If you were to make a team out of Tennessee’s offense and Chicago’s defense, you’d have a Super Bowl contender. Instead you have two flawed teams with records that may not reflect their quality. The Titans (5-2) defensive woes limit their ability to compete against top teams, but the Chicago (5-3) offense is so bad people are speculating about Coach Matt Nagy’s job security.

*Denver Broncos at Atlanta Falcons, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Falcons
Is it time to be excited about the Broncos (3-4)? The defense has given up a fair amount of points this season, but the underlying statistics suggest the team is solid on that side of the ball. Meanwhile, the offense suddenly woke up in the fourth quarter of last week’s come-from-behind win over the Chargers, giving a glimpse of what QB Drew Lock can do in ideal circumstances.

Atlanta’s secondary has allowed 311.4 yds a game through the air, and Football Outsiders ranks the team (2-6) as the fourth-worst pass defense in the NFL. The team is 0-4 at home this season. Without WR Calvin Ridley until Week 11, the Falcons will probably stay winless at home.

*Houston Texans at Jacksonville Jaguars, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Texans
With QB Gardner Minshew sitting out with a thumb injury, the Jaguars (1-6) will turn to Jake Luton, a sixth-rounder out of Oregon State, who will be the fifth rookie QB to start a game this season. Luton is enormous (6-foot-6, 224 pounds), was incredibly efficient on deep throws for the Beavers last season, and despite a penchant for airing it out, he threw just three interceptions. If anything, the knock on Luton was that he was boring, which will be quite a change from Minshew, who was everything but that.

The Texans (1-6) beat Jacksonville easily in Week 5, and should be expected to win again. But Luton is enough of a wild card that it’s worth being mildly skeptical of the large point spread.

*Detroit Lions at Minnesota Vikings, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Vikings
It has been a season of almost constant disappointment for the Vikings (2-5), but Dalvin Cook having one of the best individual games in franchise history in an upset of the Packers in GBay makes up for a lot. Now, Minnesota will look to capitalize on that momentum at home against the Lions (3-4), who aren’t quite a pushover but also aren’t much of a threat.

Minnesota is nowhere near a wild-card spot, but it clearly has no intention of packing it in. And while people may not love QB Kirk Cousins, there is no question that opposing teams need to respect the Vikings’ offense.

*Giants at Washington Football Team, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Footballers
These once-proud franchises are a combined 0-9 when facing teams outside the NFC East this season. Neither team is averaging even 20 points a game and both are giving up more than 23 a game. They might at least be entertaining against each other, but that wasn’t the case a few weeks ago when the Giants (1-7) eked out their lone win of the season against the Footballers (2-5).

Daniel Jones of the Giants is by far the most exciting player on either team, and he’s likely to have a highlight run or throw that will make you wonder if he has what it takes to be a star. Unfortunately for the Giants, he’s also likely to commit one or more turnovers and play a large part in his team’s failure.

*Monday’s Matchup
NE Patriots at Jets, 8:15 p.m., ESPN*
Pick: Patriots
The Jets (0-8) have matched the longest winless start in franchise history, and the Patriots (2-5) have matched their worst seven-game start since 2000. Something has to give, and while both teams have been disappointing, the Jets have truly earned their spot at the bottom of the NFL The team is 32nd in points scored and 28th in points allowed.

This may be one of the Jets’ best chances for a win this season. They are playing at home against an injury-ravaged team that has lost four straight. But it is hard to imagine the Jets scoring enough to beat anyone. QB Sam Darnold aggravated his shoulder injury last week. RB Frank Gore is a study in perseverance, but the Jets should start exploring other options for the future.

NE has been bad enough that a spread of 7 points seems outlandish, but opponents thus far have seemed to enjoy beating up on the Jets. If Cam Newton wants to prove a point about his health, it is hard to see Gang Green stopping him.


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## Lethe200

Onward we go!

*What We Learned From Week 9 of the NFL Season       *Pt 1 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 8, 2020  (_edited by lethe200)_

*Sunday’s Top Performers
Top Passer: Patrick Mahomes*
You can make a case for Buffalo QB Josh Allen’s huge day in a win against Seattle - which was probably the best overall game of his career - or New Orleans QB Drew Brees’s total destruction of TBay. Or even Arizona QB Kyler Murray’s eye-popping statistics in a loss to Miami. But it’s not every day a player breaks an NFL record held by Dan Marino. Patrick Mahomes did just that, throwing for 372 yds and the 98th, 99th, 100th and 101st passing TDs of his career.

In 40 career starts, Patrick Mahomes of the Chiefs has 101 TD passes, which is four fewer starts than Marino’s previous record, which had stood since 1986. Mahomes has thrown for 300 or more yds 22 times and has been held to fewer than 300 just 18 times.

*Top Runner: Dalvin Cook*
There have been eight games of 150 or more yds rushing this season, and Cook has three of them. He had 181 in Week 3, 163 in Week 8 and a career-high 206 this week. His latest performance pushed him ahead of Tennessee’s Derrick Henry for the NFL lead in rushing yds despite Cook having played in one fewer game than Henry.

*Top Receiver: Tyreek Hill*
A few players had more catches than Hill on Sunday, and several had more yds, but Hill’s nine-catch 113-yard day stood out because of his two TDs, both of which came in the fourth quarter of a tight game. The first of the two was a beautiful 28-yarder in which a coverage breakdown by Carolina led to Hill being comically open for the 100th TD pass of Mahomes’s career.

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games  *(*Except when it takes more.)

*Bills 44, Seahawks 34.* Want an idea of how bad Seattle’s defense has been this season? Despite giving up 44 points - the most the team has allowed in Coach Pete Carroll’s 11 seasons with the team - the Seahawks actually performed better than they typically do this year. The 420 total yds they gave up were 40 fewer than they were allowing per game coming in. The seven sacks they had were a season-high.

Seattle’s porous defense may want to ask Russell Wilson if he’s interested in playing both ways, as the QB made a solid tackle of Tre’Davious White that prevented the Bills cornerback from scoring following an interception. Seattle maintains its lead in the NFC West with a 6–2 record, thanks to Arizona losing to Miami, and the LA Rams with a bye week.

While the offensive output was nice, Buffalo was probably just as excited by a defensive performance with five sacks, 11 QB hits and four turnovers forced against the top-scoring offense in the NFL.

It was Buffalo’s first game with 40 or more points since 2018 and gave Josh Allen the second 400-yard passing game of his career. The Bills improved to 7-2, which matches the team’s best nine-game start since 1993.

*Ravens 24, Colts 10.* An interception can look a lot like an incomplete pass. Colts QB Philip Rivers was quietly livid over a ruling that gave a batted ball away to the Ravens, who then went down the field for a TD. Instead of the Colts leading 10-7 with a chance to score, the Ravens went ahead 14-10 and never looked back.

It was a quiet day for Baltimore’s offense, with just 266 total yds, but Lamar Jackson’s 9-yard TD run in Q4 put the Ravens over 20 points for a 31st consecutive game. The Ravens broke the previous record of 30 they had shared with Denver, which had its streak stretch over the 2012, 2013 and 2014 seasons.

*Steelers 24, Cowboys 19.* Pittsburgh is in uncharted territory. The Steelers have never started a season 8-0. Sunday’s win was far from pretty, as Dallas made this look like a football game, leading Pittsburgh right up to 2:19 left in the game. But then Ben Roethlisberger threw two TD passes in quick succession, the second involving TE Eric Ebron hurdling a defender on his way to score. The Steelers scraped by with yet another win and Dallas, despite great improvement from last week, fell to 2-7.

*Chiefs 33, Panthers 31.* It got way too close for KC’s comfort toward the end of the game, with Carolina’s offense firing on all cylinders thanks to the return of RB Christian McCaffrey who, along with QB Teddy Bridgewater and the do-everything receiver Curtis Samuel, makes Carolina a threat to score in bunches for the rest of the season. In his first action since Week 2, McCaffrey had 151 yds from scrimmage and two TDs for the Panthers in a hard-fought loss to the Chiefs that went right down to 0:0 on the clock. A last second TD was ruled incomplete, dropping Carolina to 3-6.

*Saints 38, Buccaneers 3.* The Saints’ Taysom Hill continues as a force both as a TE and a trick-play QB. He completed two passes for 48 yds, ran the ball seven times for 54 yds and caught one pass for 21 yds. The Saints scored early, and that eliminated the Bucs running game. All the dominoes fell over to hand the Saints a rout of their division rivals.

The Bucs' only points came from kicker Ryan Succop, who now has the third-most points of any kicker in the league with 74. He has an 89% field goal success rate this season. An injury-ridden OL allowed pressure on QB Brady, one of his few weaknesses since he’s not a mobile passer. Tampa’s D got tired, and the punting sucked. The Bucs made the night memorable by setting an NFL record with only five running plays in a game, breaking the previous record of six. They finished the day with just 8 yds rushing.

*Titans 24, Bears 17.* After six games, Chicago was 5-1 and looking like a possible playoff team. But after three consecutive losses Chicago is 5-4. The Titans go to 6-2 to keep their first place lead over the Colts – but this Thursday Nite match-up between these two teams gives the Colts a chance for a temporary tie if they win.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 9 of the NFL Season       *Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 8, 2020  (_edited by lethe200)_

*Raiders 31, Chargers 26.* LVegas CB Isaiah Johnson broke up two passes in the end zone in the game’s final five seconds, either of which would have won the game for LAC. Afterwards he dedicated his game-ball performance to Ka’Darian Smith, his close friend and former college teammate, who was killed Wednesday in a shooting in Houston. The Raiders improved to 5–3 behind the Chiefs in the AFC West. The Raiders have a porous secondary, but when QB Derek Carr gets them at least 30 points, they’ve won all four of those 2020 games. LAC’s Justin Herbert again showed he has the arm to compete with anyone, so even with a 2–6 record, nobody can deny 2021 looks a lot brighter for LAC.

*Dolphins 34, Cardinals 31*. Arizona’s Kyler Murray had a more exciting game, but Miami’s Tua Tagovailoa walked away with the win. Tagovailoa looked much improved from last week’s start, throwing for 248 yds and two TDs, with plenty of help from his rapidly ascending team to hold off Murray. Murray passed for 283 yds and three TDs while running for 106 yds and another score.

*Vikings 34, Lions 20.* It was a hard day for Detroit, as Matthew Stafford was intercepted on consecutive possessions in Q3, then left the game for concussion evaluation in Q4 while his team’s defense was trampled by Minnesota’s offense. Dalvin Cook’s career-high 206 yds rushing put him in the NFL lead in that category and he also leads in total TDs with 13. Cook may not be in the MVP discussion, but he’s the hands-winner in value to the Vikes.

*Falcons 34, Broncos 27.* Atlanta got a solid win at home, and Matt Ryan had one of the prettier 51-yard bombs for a TD you’ll ever see. But it’s worth noting that Denver QB Drew Lock once against inspired some magic, leading the team to 21 points in Q4, a week after putting up 21 in that Q4 for a come-from-behind win over the Chargers. If only Lock could play like that for the first three quarters, Denver would have a better record than 3–5.

*Texans 27, Jaguars 25.* Houston is a deeply flawed team, but given a chance to exploit Jacksonville’s porous secondary, Deshaun Watson did not disappoint, throwing a 57-yard catch-and-run TD to Brandin Cooks on his team’s first possession and a 77-yard score to Will Fuller V in the third quarter.

The Jaguars rookie Jake Luton, a sixth-round pick out of Oregon State, was subbing for the injured Gardner Minshew. While he couldn’t pull off the  upset of Houston, he did enough to earn another start next week. The second pass of Luton’s pro career went for a 73-yard TD to D.J. Chark, and with the game on the line in the final two minutes, Luton spun and bullied his way to a 13-yard rushing TD that got his team within a 2-point conversion of tying the game (the conversion failed). He threw for 304 yds, making him just the 10th QB in NFL history to throw for 300 or more yds in his first NFL appearance. No word yet on whether Luton can match Minshew as a fashion icon.

*Giants 23, Footballers 20.* For just the second time in 22 career appearances, QB Daniel Jones did not commit a turnover in a game and improved to 4-0 against Washington. He’s 1-16 against all other teams so far.

Washington’s Alex Smith’s comeback might be real this time. He got another chance on Sunday after an injury to Kyle Allen, and at times he looked like the player who had so much success in SF and KC. He threw for 325 yds - his first 300-yard game since Nov. 4, 2018 - and despite having three interceptions in the loss to the Giants, the Footballers outscored their division rival by 17-13 after the QB switch. With Allen’s injury looking fairly serious, Smith will start next week against Detroit.

*Monday Night Football: Patriots 30, Jets 27*
Joe Flacco and the rest of the Jets could feel it – their first victory of a brutal season was there for the taking! They had a 10-point lead in Q4 against a struggling New England Patriots team and all the momentum. But just like that...they blew it. And for the first time in franchise history, the Jets are 0-9 after an agonizing defeat Monday night.

Flacco was having a terrific night standing in for the injured Sam Darnold, with the Jets leading 27-17. After a Patriots’ 29-yard field goal with 6:04 left cut the deficit to 27-20, Flacco tried to put the game away. He launched a deep pass downfield for Denzel Mims, but J.C. Jackson intercepted the ill-advised throw. The Patriots took advantage and marched down the field to tie it on Cam Newton’s 1-yard touchdown run.

The Jets then went three-and-out for the first time all game on its next drive, giving the Patriots the ball back with 47 seconds left. And that set up Folk’s winning 51-yard field goal as time expired, sending the Jets into their bye week in disbelief and searching for answers.

Darnold’s future is still unclear, and it’s unknown if he’ll be healthy enough to play in the Jets’ next game against the Chargers Nov. 22. This season was supposed to see Darnold taking the next step in becoming a franchise QB in his third season. Instead, he could end up following Jets HC Adam Gase out the door.

The Jets currently hold the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft next April, which actually would have been put in jeopardy with a win Monday night. While frustrated fans dream about potentially landing Clemson star quarterback Trevor Lawrence, Jets coaches and players would settle for walking off the field winners at some point.


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## Lethe200

Thanks to the wonders of technology, last night I watched the Raiders/Chargers game I had 'taped' on the DVR. Hoo boy, can that Herbert kid throw! Mahomes has a better "touch", but LAC's Herbert reminds me of how John Elway used to throw, when he first came up. 

That football comes out of his hands like it was shot from a tank - a tight, superfast spiral that smacks hard into the receiver. The velocity must really sting! He makes some rookie mistakes, but with RB Austin Ekeler running over opposing lineman, LAC's high-powered offense is in good hands with Herbert.

The great Sid Gilman, one of the finest offensive minds in NFL history - the long ball throw? putting a man in motion? those were Gilman's radical ideas - would be proud how Herbert is carrying on Chargers tradition of exciting QBs.

Gilman, btw, was the only one willing to give Bill Walsh a job after Walsh left the Browns and Paul Brown blackballed him. Sid mentored Bill and later advised him to take the Stanford HC job when it was offered. At the time it was considered "the kiss of death" to return to college football after working in the NFL. 

But Walsh took the job, was enormously successful, and it was that local success that caught the eye of Eddie deBartolo, then SF Niners owner. You could say that the Niners' five Super Bowl trophies owe a debt to Gilman and the Chargers, who helped refine Walsh's offensive system which he had begun to develop in Cleveland, so long ago.


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## jerry old

Lethe200 mentioned John Elway.  I loved to watch Elway throw the ball.  
It took him a few years to learn not to throw bullet balls, and his problems with following directions.
Once he figured it out, he was unbeatable.  There are games that break a teams spirit, as Elway's' destruction of
Cleveland; Cleveland was on the verge of being a super ball team, but Mr. Elway left them crying.


So, what is one to make of the Bills.  They will win their decision, but are they a playoff team-don't think so.
Also, the Dolphins and Cardinals, are they for real?   The Cardinals are a good club-are the Dolphins better?
 What's with Settle losing a game they were supposed to win-a fluke?


Who is Justin Herbert, can't keep track of these guy, plus the darn teams moving to strange places-Las Veges,?

Oh well, wait for Steele's and Ravens second game.  
Neither is the best team in football (?), but their the toughest.


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## Lethe200

*NFL Week 10 Predictions                    *Pt 1 of 2
This week is the gut check for some of 2020’s most exciting teams and players. After a huge win over Seattle the Bills have a tough test against the Cardinals. The Dolphins will try to keep their hot streak going against the Chargers. Joe Burrow of the Bengals gets his first big AFC North test against the undefeated Steelers. The Rams, fresh from their bye, have a chance for a share of the NFC West lead in a matchup with the Seahawks.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 12, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Sunday’s Best Games

Buffalo Bills at Arizona Cardinals, 4:05 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Cardinals
It’s a little unusual to rave about the defensive performance of a team that gave up 34 points, but the Bills (7-2) were up on Seattle by 27-10 in the third quarter last week before easing off on defense and cruising to a 44-34 victory.

Buffalo sacked Russell Wilson five times, hit him another 11 times, pulled down two interceptions and recovered two fumbles.

This week has nearly as difficult a challenge. The Cardinals (5-3) can do considerable damage, thanks to the running and passing of QB Kyler Murray, and would get an enormous boost if RB Kenyan Drake could return from an ankle injury.

With Buffalo’s Josh Allen coming off perhaps the best game of his career, it was no surprise for oddsmakers to predict this would be the highest scoring game of the week. But if Buffalo’s defense can perform near the standard it established last week, the Bills can walk away with a road win to be proud of.

*Seattle Seahawks at Los Angeles Rams, 4:25 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Rams
What a lovely bye week for the Rams (5-3). They got some rest and watched every other team in the NFC West lose. Now they host the Seahawks (6-2) with a reasonable chance of getting a share of the division lead.

Los Angeles has been more effective running than passing, but Seattle’s secondary is so bad that it makes every offense look terrific — and Jamal Adams, an All-Pro safety acquired by the Seahawks in the off-season to stabilize the team, has been a huge part of the problem. There is every reason to believe the Rams have the advantage in this game, but if Russell Wilson wants to stay in the M.V.P. race, this is the type of game he has to win.

*Los Angeles Chargers at Miami Dolphins, 4:05 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Dolphins
The Dolphins (5-3) are the team people thought the Chargers (2-6) might be this season. It’s not that LAC has been particularly bad, but it’s hard to be enthusiastic about two wins in eight games. Miami, on the other hand, had low expectations but has been an absolute joy to watch on both sides of the ball, and in its current 4-0 stretch, it has had a combined score of 129-65.

QBs Justin Herbert and Tua Tagovailoa were in the same draft class, and appear on their way to starring in the league for years to come. For now, Tagovailoa’s Dolphins seems far better. 

*Cincinnati Bengals at Pittsburgh Steelers, 4:25 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Steelers
Despite being on the Covid-19 reserve list because of a close contact, Ben Roethlisberger is in line to play this week, provided he doesn’t test positive himself. Regardless, he won’t be able to practice all week, which would be a bigger deal if the Steelers (8-0) were facing a defense more competent than that of the Bengals (2-5-1).

If Roethlisberger is at all limited, the Steelers can simply run their way to a win with James Conner. And while QB Joe Burrow has a bright future for Cincinnati, he is likely not ready for Pittsburgh.

*Sunday’s Other Games

TBay Buccaneers at Carolina Panthers, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Buccaneers
The Buccaneers (6-3) are almost certainly not as bad as they looked against New Orleans on Sunday night, but that loss, coming on the heels of a narrow win over the Giants the previous week, has taken a great deal of the shine off Tom Brady’s first season in TBay.

The Buccaneers have picked a poor time to be struggling, as the Panthers (3-6) are rounding into shape. While RB Christian McCaffrey is not expected to play on Sunday because of a shoulder injury, the team adjusted in recent weeks to take advantage of the versatility of Curtis Samuel, who excels as a runner and receiver. Pairing Samuel with WRs Robby Anderson and D.J. Moore makes the Panthers a team to fear, even for a talented young defense like TBay’s.

*Baltimore Ravens at NE Patriots, 8:20 p.m., NBC*
Pick: Ravens
Both teams are coming off wins, but both wins might not sit all that well. The Ravens (6-2) struggled on offense for much of a victory over Indianapolis, while the Patriots (3-5) needed a furious fourth-quarter comeback to beat the winless Jets. There are degrees of struggle, however, and while Baltimore may have been exposed in recent weeks as being a step or two below KC in the AFC’s pecking order, NE is only a few steps above the worst teams in the NFL 

*Denver Broncos at Las Vegas Raiders, 4:05 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Raiders
In their last four games, the Raiders (5-3) beat KC, were blown out by TBay, throttled Cleveland’s high-powered offense and outgunned the Chargers. Not a perfect stretch, but enough to have Las Vegas in line for a playoff spot if the season ended now. The Broncos (3-5) can’t claim the same, but they are at least making things exciting, with 21 points in Q4 in each of the team’s last two games.

To keep up with the Raiders, the Broncos would need to find a way to even out the team’s productivity.


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Week 10 Predictions                    *Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 12, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Houston Texans at Cleveland Browns, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Browns
Nick Chubb, the star RB of the Browns (5-3), is practicing this week, and if he is able to go, that would be terrible news for the Texans (2-6), who have a comically inept run defense. While Kareem Hunt has talent, and is a great second option to Chubb, Cleveland is far scarier when the offense goes through Chubb.

Cleveland’s running game might become quickly irrelevant, though, if Deshaun Watson and the Texans can get off to a fast start against a mediocre secondary. Watson was able to carve up Jacksonville’s defense last week with long TDs to Brandin Cooks and Will Fuller, and a few of those early in the game could take away the Browns’ primary advantage.

*SF 49ers at New Orleans Saints, 4:25 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Saints
It appeared as if the exciting Niner RB Raheem Mostert had a chance to come off injured reserve to play in this game, but with the team (4-5) collapsing under a season lost to injuries, a reasonable question became: Why would he do that? A loss to the Saints (6-2) in New Orleans seems all but certain, so the decision to have Mostert sit out this game, giving him a bonus week off thanks to the team’s Week 11 bye, will have him at full strength for a division game against Los Angeles in Week 12.

After watching New Orleans throttle the full-strength Buccaneers on Sunday night, it’s hard to believe oddsmakers didn’t make the point spread in this game even wider.

*Jacksonville Jaguars at GBay Packers, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Packers
Remember last year when there was concern that Coach Matt LaFleur’s offense was relying too heavily on RB Aaron Jones and that QB Aaron Rodgers was being minimized? Through eight games, Rodgers is on a pace to make 4,506 yds passing, 48 TDs and just four interceptions, and the Packers (6-2) are averaging 31.6 points a game. This week, Rodgers is facing the Jaguars (1-7), who have the least efficient pass defense in the NFL, according to Football Outsiders.

How much damage can Rodgers do, at home, against a team that inept? As much as he wants, probably.

*Washington Football Team at Detroit Lions, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Lions
All it took for QB Alex Smith to get back to starting in the NFL was 17 surgeries on his right leg, the implosion of Dwayne Haskins and a gruesome ankle sprain to Kyle Allen (though one far less complicated than Smith’s). It was an improbable path, but the 36-year-old Smith has fought through adversity in his career and won a lot more than he has lost.

So where does that leave the Footballers (2-6)? Certainly no worse off than they were a week ago, when they lost to the lowly Giants, especially when you consider that Washington outscored NY once the switch was made to Smith after Allen’s injury.

The Lions (3-5) are playing at home, and unlike last week when he was on the Covid-19 reserve list, Matthew Stafford will be able to practice. But Smith’s first start in nearly two years might inspire an upset, or something close to one.

*Philadelphia Eagles at Giants, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Eagles
Games between NFC East teams should be entertaining because the talent levels are similar. Instead, they are often mistake-filled disappointments in which both teams find new ways to fail. The Eagles (3-4-1) are leading the division, mostly by default, and the Giants (2-7) hardly seem likely to challenge that unless the league finds a way to add several more games against Washington to their schedule. But while the Eagles can and should win, they rarely cover the betting spread.

*Monday’s Matchup

Minnesota Vikings at Chicago Bears, 8:15 p.m., ESPN*
Pick: Vikings
It’s not that Chicago is inept. The Bears are terrific at defending the run and the pass, but the team’s QB, Nick Foles, is a wild card who can look brilliant and ineffective — often in the same series. That has led to Chicago struggling so much to score that the quality of the team’s defense often becomes irrelevant.

In Coach Mike Zimmer’s six seasons at the helm of the Vikings (3-5), the team has struggled to a 6-19 record in road games against opponents with winning records. So what will it look like when a Minnesota team that can score but can’t defend faces a Chicago one that can defend but can’t score? Probably a bit of a mess.

But the Vikings have the best player on the field in RB Dalvin Cook. No one has scored more TDs this season than Cook. They have played well in five of their last six games. The Bears make it too hard for anyone to believe in them, even at home.

*Thursday’s Matchup: Colts 34, Titans 17*
E.J. Speed of the Colts blocked a punt attempt by Tennessee’s Trevor Daniel and T.J. Carrie recovered the ball and ran it in for a 6-yard TD.

After Sunday’s disappointing loss to Baltimore, the Colts marched into Tennessee looking to prove that their defense could carry the team to a crucial win. Indianapolis did just that, grabbing a share of the lead in the AFC South with a 34-17 victory over the Titans that was convincing on both sides of the ball.

NYT picked Colts +2 believing that a quiet stretch from Titans QB Ryan Tannehill was coming at an awful time, which proved accurate as Tannehill was limited to just 147 yds passing and one TD. That wasn’t nearly enough to keep up with the Colts who ran for two TDs, passed for another, and got a fourth on a blocked punt return.


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## jerry old

How strange to see the Washington Football Club rather than the Redskins.
Perhaps a temporary name would be the Spineless Owners  Washington football club or The Shaky NFL bosses present the Washington football club.  (Horse-feathers)   NFL Boss bow to something that has been in Washington since their inception.
There was no disrespect intended-did they understand that?

Well, Redskins were a stone age people, so maybe  they passed their DNA to the Owners and NfL
Yea, they have a legitimate grip; but i also have a legitimate grip-leave my football alone.


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## MarkinPhx

About the only bright spot this year is that Bill O"Bien was an idiot when he was with the Texans and gave the Cardinals Deandre Hopkins for almost nothing. The Cardinals have been a nice diversion to everything else going on this year.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 10 of the NFL Season *Part 1 of 2
DeAndre Hopkins pulled down a catch that will live forever, Ronald Jones II ran TBay to victory and Ben Roethlisberger was no worse for the wear after a week of no practice.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 15, 2020 (_edited by lethe200)_

*Sunday’s Top Performers
Top Passer: Ben Roethlisberger. *Pittsburgh’s QB Roethlisberger was idle all week after landing on the Covid-19 reserve list and wasn’t cleared to enter team facilities until Saturday. Lack of practice didn’t matter as he torched Cincinnati’s defense for 333 yds and four TDs. Pittsburgh will look to stretch their win streak to 10-0 next week in Jacksonville.

*Top Runner: Ronald Jones II. *It is hard to tell by the final score, but this was a closely-contested 17-17 game at halftime, and the second half had a slow start as well. Then Jones’s wild 98-yard run came on the first play of TBay’s second drive of the third quarter, and from there the Buccaneers were off to the races. Needless to say, the 192 yds rushing were a personal best for Jones, who came into the day with a career-high of 113. He had just 9 last week.

*Top Receiver: DeAndre Hopkins. *You could make a reasonable case that GBay’s Marquez Valdes-Scantling had a more impressive game overall, considering his 78-yard TD and his average of 37.3 yds a catch. But this column is a Murray-to-Hopkins Hail Mary fan blog and we are not considering other nominees at this time.

*A Big Week for Kickers*
Detroit’s Matt Prater got most of the attention for a three field-goal game that included a 59-yard game-winner as time expired, but he was far from alone. With one game remaining in Week 10, the league’s kickers have already connected for 11 field goals of 50 or more yds, tying a record set in Week 13 of the 2012 season.

The longest field goal on Sunday belonged to Seattle’s Jason Myers, who hit a 61-yarder in the Seahawks’ loss to Los Angeles. But the best day, beyond Prater’s, belonged to Buffalo’s Tyler Bass who connected on field goals of 54, 55 and 58 yds, setting a new career long on three consecutive kicks.

There have been 71 field goals of at least 50 yds this season, which according to the NFL has already broken the league’s record for the first 10 weeks of the season, which was set in 2017 when there were 67.

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games* *Except when it takes more.
*Cardinals 32, Bills 30. *Thanks to a Seattle loss to the Rams, the Cardinals now share the division lead in the ultracompetitive NFC West. In the final minute of Q4, Buffalo scored the gut-punch of a TD to take a 30-26 lead. Arizona had the ball back with only 34 seconds to score a winning TD that was 75 yds down the field.

Kyler Murray has been breaking through the sophomore jinx. He methodically worked his team down the field, completing passes of 14, 9 and 9 yds to get to Buffalo’s 43-yard line. With only a few seconds remaining, under terrific pressure Murray launched a Hail Mary into triple-coverage in the end zone. Then DeAndre Hopkins proved Houston made an even worse trade in giving him to the Cards than everyone first thought. Hopkins somehow managed to outjump and outmuscle all three Buffalo defenders for the ball. The remarkable catch is the type of highlight that will be replayed for years, and it gave Arizona a thrilling end for a 32-30 win.

*Buccaneers 46, Panthers 23.* Tom Brady had more than 300 yds passing for the third time this season - he topped that mark only once in his final 10 games with NE.

Ronald Jones ran for 192 yds on 23 carries. In Q3 he took a handoff at his team’s 2-yard line, sliced right through a pack of Carolina defenders, and raced 98 yds for a TD. It was just the fourth rushing TD of 98 or more yds in NFL history, according to Pro Football Reference. According to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats database, Jones hit 21.19 miles per hour on the run, gaining 94 more yds than expected on the play - the highest mark in that statistic all season.

*Steelers 36, Bengals 10.* Pittsburgh’s big day on offense saw Ben Roethlisberger throw for four TDs. Diontae Johnson, a second-year WR, contribute six catches for 116 yds and a TD while rookie sensation Chase Claypool scored two more TDs, bringing his total over his last six games to eight. The Steelers are now 9–0 and were #1 this week in the NFL Power Rankings.

*Rams 23, Seahawks 16.* Leonard Floyd got three of the Rams’ six sacks and five of the team’s 12 QB hits, helping to make Russell Wilson’s day absolutely miserable.

The Seahawks’ Achilles’ heel all season has been its porous defense, but Seattle can’t blame its defense this week. In a devastating divisional loss to the Rams the offense pulled a disappearing act. Wilson had his worst game of the season with 248 yds passing and two interceptions, while D.K. Metcalf had just two catches on four targets. Seattle has lost three of its last four games, falling into a three-way tie with the Rams and Arizona for the lead in the NFC West. The Seahawks host the Cardinals this Thursday Nov 19th in what will be a crucial game for the NFC West lead.

*Giants 27, Eagles 17.* It was a throwback game for the Giants, as the team’s defensive front set the tone with three sacks and 13 QB hits, and Daniel Jones went a second consecutive game without committing a turnover. After starting the season 0-5, the Giants have improved from historically awful to merely bad, which in their division could lead to a playoff spot.

*Patriots 23, Ravens 17.* Rex Burkhead caught TD passes from Cam Newton and Jakobi Meyers, Damien Harris ran for 121 yds and NE held on for an upset that could go a long way to turning around a disappointing season.

Something is not right for Baltimore. The Ravens have lost two of three games since their Week 7 bye and have not looked nearly as explosive on offense. On a rain-soaked field, Baltimore was limited to 115 yds rushing. RB Mark Ingram got just 5 yds in his return from an ankle injury, compounding his bad day by losing track of the snap on a wildcat play in Q3 that resulted in a turnover on downs. It’s too soon to say the league has figured Baltimore out, but this is the closest thing to a slump the Ravens have had in the Lamar Jackson era.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 10 of the NFL Season *Part 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 15, 2020 (_edited by lethe200)_

*Saints 27, 49ers 13.* A huge hit from SF’s Kentavius Street in the second quarter left Saints QB Drew Brees wincing on the field - and resulted in a questionable penalty on Street. Brees was able to fight his way through the pain until halftime, but gave way to Jameis Winston for the second half despite never being officially ruled out with injured ribs.

The Niners injury-riddled D did an amazingly terrific job, but the equally injured offense under QB stand-in Nick Mullens sputtered and sunk. Horrendous special teams play capped a painful loss for SF. They looked good for their first two drives, but then folded under blitzing pressure and turnovers.

*Dolphins 29, Chargers 21.* Justin Herbert has had a remarkable rookie season, but the Chargers QB was outplayed by Tua Tagovailoa. Herbert’s interception early in Q4 helped gave Miami breathing room needed to stretch its winning streak to five games.

The decision to switch from Ryan Fitzpatrick to Tua Tagovailoa at QB raised eyebrows - most notably Fitzpatrick’s - since Miami was playing well and was on the fringe of this year’s playoff hunt. The move was rationalized by most as the right play for the team’s future, but Tagovailoa has changed that narrative by winning the first three starts of his career. In Sunday’s convincing 29-21 win over Justin Herbert and the Los Angeles Chargers, the team’s defense withstood a late surge from Herbert. Tagovailoa’s statistics haven’t been eye-popping, but getting him much-needed experience while inching closer to a wild-card spot is a case of a team having its cake and eating it too.

*Packers 24, Jaguars 20.* The Pack goes to 7-2 despite key mistakes, while the Jaguars lost their eighth straight game to fall to 1-8. After an impressive NFL debut last week, Jacksonville’s Jake Luton came back to Earth a bit, passing for just 169 yds with one TD and one interception against a GBay defense that typically makes quite a few mistakes. That didn’t work against Aaron Rodgers, even on a day that was a little slow by his lofty standards. Rodgers had good stats, but the Packers had to come from behind in early Q4 as they were behind 20–17. It looked like he was falling back into his old bad habit of holding onto the ball too long, searching for the big play rather than taking what the defense was generous with anyway.

*Browns 10, Texans 7.* Cleveland goes to 6–3 while the Texans slump to 2–7. In his first action since Week 4, Browns RB Nick Chubb ran for 126 yds and a TD while Kareem Hunt seemed happy to share the load with 132 yds from scrimmage.

*Lions 30, Footballers 27.* In his first start in nearly two years following a devastating leg break, Alex Smith threw for 390 yds and rallied his team all the way back from a 24-3 deficit to a 27-27 tie. Then a mistake by his team’s defense handed Detroit the victory.

There were fewer than 10 seconds remaining in a tie game between the Lions and the Footballers when Detroit’s Matthew Stafford threw an incomplete pass at his own 35-yard line, making OT seem inevitable. But Washington rookie DE Chase Young blew in late and tossed Stafford to the ground, earning a flag for roughing the passer. The 15-yard penalty, plus a 6-yard pass from Stafford to Marvin Jones, got Matt Prater just close enough for a 59-yard field goal as time expired.

That Washington had fought back from a 24-3 deficit to tie the game, only to have it fall apart because of such a ridiculous mistake, will certainly sting - and will undoubtedly be a focus of Washington’s review of the game this week.

*Raiders 37, Broncos 12.* The Raiders go to 6–3 behind the Chiefs, while Denver falls to 3–6, in third place in the AFC West. It wasn’t the smoothest win for LVegas, but the score could have been even worse for Denver. Carr lost 2 TD passes that should have been caught, one by TE Darren Waller and one by WR Nelson Agholor. The Raiders OL is gaining praise under line coach Tom Gamble, who didn’t seem effective for the Seattle Seahawks but has done a stellar job for LVegas. Despite injuries to their top OLs, Richie Incognito and Trent Brown, QB Carr suffered zero sacks and usually had a clean pocket to throw from.

The Raiders D stepped up, doubling their turnover ratio from a season total of 5 over the first 9 games, by adding another 5 takeaways from Denver in just one game. Linebacker Nick Kwiatkoski intercepted a high arching pass from Lock with an upwards leap and then a one-handed juggling catch, worthy of Gronk at his finest. Denver QB Drew Lock was hit often and hard, looking severely beaten up by game’s end.

When asked about a game in which his team’s defense forced five turnovers and RBs Josh Jacobs and Devontae Booker combined for 193 yds rushing and four TDs, QB Derek Carr just seemed happy to be there. “It’s kind of awesome,” Carr said in his postgame news conference. “As I get older, I let the young guys do more of the work.”

*Monday Night Football: Vikings 19, Bears 13.*
A critical division matchup but the Bears fell short. Back on Oct. 18, the Chicago Bears. stood at 5-1, with a switch at QB from Mitch Trubisky to Nick Foles in Week 3 paying off. But since then all has gone wrong. The team has now lost four straight games. With less than a minute to go in Monday’s game, Foles hurt his hip. It’s not a fracture, but he’s listed as day-to-day with a severe hip/glut sprain.

Trubisky had injured his throwing shoulder on a one-play cameo in the loss to the Saints on Nov. 1 and with his history of shoulder issues, is also day-to-day. Undrafted FA Tyler Bray is their only standing QB. In two weeks, Chicago plays a vital Sunday night game against division leader Green Bay. If Foles isn’t back by then, Chicago may be in trouble. Four of their remaining six games are vs divisional rivals.


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## Lethe200

*NFL Week 11 Predictions* Pt 1 of 2
There is a lot to like about this week’s schedule. Aaron Rodgers/Packers meet one of the NFL’s most stifling secondaries in the Colts. Tennessee and Baltimore face off in a battle of struggling contenders. KC looks for revenge against LVegas. Kyler Murray/Cardinals vie with Russell Wilson/Seahawks in a battle for the NFC West lead. Pittsburgh tries to get to 10-0 for the first time in franchise history.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 19, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Sunday’s Best Games

GBay Packers at Indianapolis Colts,* 4:25 p.m., Fox
Pick: Colts
No team has allowed fewer yds per game than the Colts (6-3), who have also allowed the fourth fewest points per game among the NFL’s 32 teams. Indianapolis has limited opposing QBs to a passer rating of 78.9 - the best mark in the league - and has pulled down 11 interceptions.

Strength against strength is always an intriguing matchup, so this game certainly qualifies. Only two teams have averaged more points a game than the Packers, who are enjoying a magical season from their QB. Aaron Rodgers has thrown for 26 TDs against just three interceptions, leading to an NFL-leading passer rating of 116.4.

It would be inaccurate to say the Colts’ offense and Packers’ defense are irrelevant in this game, and a few breaks for either of those units could go a long way to deciding the game. But the headliners are clear, and you won’t want to miss any of GBay’s passing downs, no matter how things go.

*Tennessee Titans at Baltimore Ravens,* 1 p.m., CBS
Pick: Ravens
The Titans (6-3) and the Ravens (6-3) are both hoping to brush off recent failures and get back to being top contenders. Baltimore has lost 2 of 3 games since its bye week and the offense has sputtered to 24 or fewer points in each. Tennessee has lost three of four, with QB Ryan Tannehill having seen the most pronounced downturn of his tenure with the Titans.

Baltimore still has a ton of talent on both sides of the ball. There is little reason to believe that Tennessee’s offense can’t return to a level of productivity that makes its mediocre defense largely irrelevant. But this week’s game will come down to which team can best emerge from its funk. That could go either way, but with the Ravens playing at home, they are the safer bet.

*KC Chiefs at LVegas Raiders, *8:20 p.m., NBC
Pick: Chiefs
The last time these teams met, the Raiders (6-3) shocked the Chiefs (8-1) by beating them, 40-32, in KC. It was a classic case of a top-rated team looking past a scrappy challenger. LVegas made its division rival pay dearly for that indifference. The odds that Patrick Mahomes and his fellow Super Bowl champions make the same mistake again are slim.

The Raiders are coming off the most complete win of their season last week against the Broncos. Ideally they might have been a real challenger for KC. But with the bulk of LVegas’ defense being forced to sit out the week of practice because of Covid-19 close contact protocols, slowing down the Chiefs seems like an impossible task.

*Pittsburgh Steelers at Jacksonville Jaguars,* 1 p.m., CBS
Pick: Steelers
Should anyone expect this to be a good game? No. The Steelers (9-0) are dominating on both sides of the ball, while the Jaguars (1-8) have an inept defense and a rookie QB in Jake Luton who was not even expected to play this season. So why make this one of the best games of the week? Because Pittsburgh stands a good chance of becoming the NFL’s first 10-0 team since 2015. Only 26 teams have begun a season with 10 straight wins. Six went undefeated for the regular season. Five finished with just one loss, nine with two losses and five with three losses. The worst a 10-0 team has ever finished was the 2015 Patriots, who went 12-4.

*Thursday’s Matchup
Arizona Cardinals at Seattle Seahawks, *8:20 p.m., Fox, NFL Network, Prime Video
Pick: Seahawks
The Seahawks (6-3) gave up sole possession of first place in the NFC West with last week’s loss to the Rams. The Cards (6-3) snatched their own share of that lead thanks to DeAndre Hopkins’s unbelievable catch of a Kyler Murray Hail Mary pass in the final seconds of a win over Buffalo. With three teams tied atop the West with 6-3 records, the stakes of this game are high.

Neither team is perfect. Seattle’s defense treats every game like it’s the Pro Bowl (no tackling allowed), and Arizona’s offensive output seems to swing wildly on a weekly basis. But there is no denying that both teams are fun to watch, and this could prove to be one of the week’s prettier games despite being in a Thursday time slot known for providing sloppy play.

The X-factor is which version of Seattle’s offense shows up: the one from the first five games when Russell Wilson appeared to be running away with the MVP Award, or the one from the last few weeks in which Wilson has thrown seven interceptions over four games.

The Seahawks are 4-0 at home but this is the biggest test they’ve gotten there. If Arizona comes in hot, this could be where AZ takes control of the NFC West.


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## Lethe200

*NFL Week 11 Predictions* Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 19, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Sunday’s Other Games

Miami Dolphins at Denver Broncos,* 4:05 p.m., CBS
Pick: Dolphins
RB Salvon Ahmed was the latest Miami player to step up in a season in which the Dolphins are suddenly playoff contenders, and the team seems to get more impressive on a weekly basis. Miami could be even stronger this week if Matt Breida is able to return from a hamstring injury. The Broncos (3-6), after a brief flirtation with relevance, have dropped three of their past four games while allowing an average of 36 points a game in that stretch. Visiting Denver is never easy, but Miami’s surge should continue.

*NE Patriots at Houston Texans,* 1 p.m., CBS
Pick: Patriots
The Patriots (4-5) are coming off a shockingly convincing win over Baltimore that has upended the general view that the team is a disaster. Was that a one-off? Is that game, combined with a fairly close win over the Jets the week before, enough to say NE is hot? Even a blowout win in this game wouldn’t answer that question as the Texans (2-7) have beat only lowly Jacksonville.

Deshaun Watson is so good that it’s impossible to rule out a performance in which he drags his teammates kicking and screaming to victory. But that is slightly less likely than Cam Newton and the Patriots grinding out a fairly close win on the road.

*Dallas Cowboys at Minnesota Vikings,* 4:25 p.m., Fox
Pick: Vikings
Andy Dalton has cleared the NFL’s concussion protocol and been taken off the Covid-19 reserve list, and his punishment for that good fortune will be having to start for the Cowboys (2-7). There remains a lingering belief that Dalton, who was at one point a borderline star for Cincinnati, could take advantage of his team’s riches at WR and lead Dallas back to something near mediocrity. And there are few defenses more willing to make a QB look good than the unit for the Vikings (4-5).

Regardless, Minnesota is the better team playing at home. If this game were in Dallas you might expect it to be close, but in Minnesota the Vikings should romp.

*Atlanta Falcons at New Orleans Saints, *1 p.m., Fox
Pick: Saints
Jameis Winston wins games and loses games, and does it in a way that is fascinating to watch regardless of the result. Winston’s 33-TD, 30-interception season last year in TBay was a thing of legend, and while it’s highly unlikely that the Saints (7-2) will allow him to be anywhere near as reckless with their offense, his presence in place of the injured Drew Brees adds an element of uncertainty to a game against the Falcons (3-6) that would otherwise look like an obvious blowout in favor of New Orleans. A conservative approach that focuses on RB Alvin Kamara is the safe way to handle things. But when has Winston ever been safe?

*Philadelphia Eagles at Cleveland Browns, *1 p.m., Fox
Pick: Browns
Carson Wentz has never been the same since a knee injury ended his 2017 season early. He wasn’t bad over the last two seasons, but any mention of his name and the MVP award is now a distant memory. This year he has taken a very long step backwards. It wouldn’t be fair to blame everything on Wentz, as injuries and ineptitude have been a total team effort. But Philadelphia’s grip on the NFL’s worst division is loosening, and if the Eagles are caught by the Giants, it would be fairly embarrassing.

The Browns (6-3) would do well to just run the ball all day with Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt and let their defense take advantage of a few mistakes. Keep the score low and tack on another victory, just as Cleveland did last week against Houston.

*Detroit Lions at Carolina Panthers, *1 p.m., Fox
Pick: Panthers
Panthers QB Teddy Bridgewater injured a ligament in his knee during last week’s loss to TBay, but currently it appears as if he will be able to start for the Panthers (3-7). That’s welcome news for a team that had been building some momentum heading into last week, and looked great until the game went sideways in the second half. Matthew Stafford is also expected to start for the Lions (4-5) despite having injured the thumb on his throwing hand.

The uncertainty with both QBs makes this a tossup, with the advantage going to whichever team can keep their guy on the field longest.

*Cincinnati Bengals at Washington Football Team,* 1 p.m., CBS
Pick: Footballers
A pair of No. 1 picks separated by more than a decade of experience, will face off when Joe Burrow and the Bengals (2-6-1) visit Alex Smith and the Footballers (2-7). Burrow clearly has a bright future, and Smith has had a terrific career, but this game may be decided by the health of Bengals RB Joe Mixon. If Cincinnati gets its top runner back, the team’s offense could overwhelm Washington and pick up a win on the road. If the Bengals once again have to rely on Mixon’s backups, things get far more complicated.

*Jets at Los Angeles Chargers,* 4:05 p.m., CBS
Pick: Chargers
The Chargers (2-7) have struggled to close out games this season, regardless of how good the offense has occasionally looked. The team has underperformed its preseason expectations. There are plenty of areas for concern, but Joey Bosa was just cleared from concussion protocol today. A win over the Jets (0-9) is overwhelmingly probable, but the Chargers’ late-game troubles make a large point spread risky.

*Monday’s Matchup

Los Angeles Rams at TBay Buccaneers,* 8:15 p.m., ESPN
Pick: Buccaneers
The Buccaneers (7-3) followed up a 3-point performance against New Orleans by scoring 46 against Carolina. In those games, Ronald Jones II went from three carries for 9 yds to 23 for 192. This year was supposed to be about suffocating defense and offensive consistency. Instead it has been defined by several weeks where the Buccaneers looked unbeatable, and two where they looked truly awful.

The Rams (6-3) don’t have as high a gear as TBay, but they are considerably more consistent. You can reasonably expect Los Angeles to get a fair amount of yds, both through the air and on the ground. LAR's defensive attack must put significant pressure on the opposing team’s QB. The scariest sight in football is Rams DT Aaron Donald with a full head of steam. Will that be enough to beat TBay? Sometimes.


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## jerry old

Sports radio-ranked the teams
The bottom four are:
New York Giants
Philly
The Washington no name team
Dallas Cowboys

You will note this list includes every team in the NFL-East, this is the first time an entire conference
was labeled *crummy, just crummy.    *


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## Lethe200

Jerry, even as a long-time NFL fan I just cannot figure the Cowboys out in the Jerry Jones/post-Jimmy Johnson era. They always seem to have a substantial number of good - even great - players, yet they never seem to come together as a cohesive team. 

There is always something off-balance, or "not quite right" about their play. And it seems to be getting a little worse every year, not better.

As Dallas isn't in our division I don't see many stories or analyses on them except for the rare occasions they play the Niners. 

What is your take on the real reason for their lack of success?


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## ErnieG

Lethe200 said:


> Jerry, even as a long-time NFL fan I just cannot figure the Cowboys out in the Jerry Jones/post-Jimmy Johnson era. They always seem to have a substantial number of good - even great - players, yet they never seem to come together as a cohesive team.
> 
> There is always something off-balance, or "not quite right" about their play. And it seems to be getting a little worse every year, not better.
> 
> As Dallas isn't in our division I don't see many stories or analyses on them except for the rare occasions they play the Niners.
> 
> What is your take on the real reason for their lack of success?


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## ErnieG

My view takes 2 words-Jerry Jones. Needs a Jimmy Johnson quality head coach. He left the team in such good shape Barry was succesful.


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## Lethe200

Interesting read!

*The 2020 rookie class is taking the NFL by storm. Here’s what that means for the future.*
Washington Post November 21, 2020

(excerpt)....Only three draft classes — 2006, 2007 and 2008 — have overachieved more than this one at the same point of the season.

The early marks are so impressive, in fact, history shows there are likely to be a number of future all-pros and Hall of Famers in this class. Looking back at the 2006, 2007 and 2008 classes shows us the quarterbacks, wide receivers and tight ends who stood out as rookies got even better over the next few years.

For example, the quarterbacks of the 2006 class as a group scored six points fewer than what we would expect at the position as a whole. That doesn’t sound impressive on first glance, but that performance is much better than you would expect from an average rookie quarterback during his first season. In their second season, those quarterbacks took off, posting six points more than expected, and they increased again the next year to 16 points more than expected. The quarterback class of 2008 saw its average expected points rise from 10 in its first season to 12 in the second to 16 in the third.

...Improving year-over-year is not always a given when you look at an entire position group from a draft class. To put that in perspective, the 2017 quarterback class — which includes reigning MVP Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield — averaged 19 points fewer than expected in its rookie year. That class is averaging six points more than expected in its third season, making those players below-average producers per this metric. In other words, they’re still good quarterbacks; they’re just not seeing their production take off like those from the 2006 and 2008 classes, who started their careers at a higher level.

2020’s rookie quarterbacks show signs of a promising future. Joe Burrow (No. 1 pick) for the Cincinnati Bengals and Justin Herbert (No. 6 pick) for the Los Angeles Chargers are the front-runners for the Offensive Rookie of the Year award. Burrow, last year’s Heisman Trophy winner at LSU, has completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,485 yards, 12 touchdowns and five interceptions. Herbert has completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,333 yards, 19 touchdowns and six interceptions, and he has added three rushing touchdowns. Also making a splash is Miami’s Tua Tagovailoa. The former Alabama star’s past two games for the Dolphins were solid: He completed 35 of 53 passes for 417 yards, four touchdowns and no interceptions.

As a class — which also includes Ben DiNucci (Dallas Cowboys), Jake Luton (Jacksonville Jaguars) and Jalen Hurts (Philadelphia Eagles) — this year’s rookie quarterbacks are scoring almost three more points per game than expected. If it holds, that would be the best per-game rate since 2002, the year the league expanded to 32 teams.

Rookie wide receivers have also excelled. Justin Jefferson (Minnesota Vikings) is on pace for more than 1,200 yards and is averaging 3.1 yards per route run, the most among wideouts in the league. Burrow and Tee Higgins have improved their chemistry each week and have connected on 40 of 61 targets for 603 yards and four touchdowns. Chase Claypool (Pittsburgh Steelers) has produced a league-high 140.7 passer rating with Ben Roethlisberger; Claypool also has two rushing touchdowns. Brandon Aiyuk (San Francisco 49ers) has established himself as a key cog in Kyle Shanahan’s offense, accounting for a team-high 22 percent of red-zone targets with a whopping 36 percent of targets within five yards of the end zone.

CeeDee Lamb (Cowboys) has declined since Dak Prescott’s injury yet still manages 1.9 yards per route run from the slot, the fourth most among wideouts lining up inside. His nine catches on deep throws (20 yards or more in the air) are tied for the most among all receivers with Jefferson and DK Metcalf. Darnell Mooney of the Chicago Bears is one of three rookies without a dropped pass. And Jerry Jeudy of the Denver Broncos has rebounded from three unfortunate drops in the first two weeks to lead his team in receiving yards (552). Tight end Harrison Bryant (Cleveland Browns) has contributed, too: In nine games, he has three touchdowns and almost six yards per reception after the catch.

This season’s first-year running backs aren’t adding to their teams’ scoring boom like the other positions, but they also aren’t holding them back as much as rookie running backs usually do. For example, this year’s class is scoring six points less per 100 opportunities with the football (rushes plus targets) after accounting for the down, distance and field position of each play. By comparison, rookie running backs cost their teams 11 points per 100 opportunities in 2019.

...Three rookie running backs — D’Andre Swift (Detroit Lions), J.K. Dobbins (Baltimore Ravens) and Jonathan Taylor (Indianapolis Colts) —have had a positive impact in terms of expected points added, in at least 50 opportunities with the football. There were none last year. Swift leads all running backs in 2020 with eight expected points added after tallying 606 yards from scrimmage with six total touchdowns in the first 10 weeks.

Other rookie running backs are contributing as well. Clyde Edwards-Helaire is accounting for 61 percent of Kansas City’s rushes on first and second down plus 54 percent of the carries in the red zone. Zack Moss has his name called on a third of Buffalo’s carries in the red zone. Washington’s Antonio Gibson is handling 54 percent of the early-down work and gets a third of the opportunities (rushes plus targets) inside the 5-yard line.

It’s hard to tell which players from this year’s rookie class will be future all-pros, but if history is any guide, we are seeing stars in the making, especially under center.


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## jerry old

`The Dallas Cowboys exist only because Lamar Hunt (with his millions) established the American Football League.
When Hunt established a team in Dallas, the NFL countered with the Cowboys.

(What a dismal team they were)


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## jerry old

Lethe200 mentioned Rookie's that performed well
Poor Joe Burrows injury, I've not seen a rookie QB that could step into the pros and perform  at the standard he has.

Turkey Day
1.  Texans play somebody-Texans are another team that 'What's wrong with these guys, they have the personnel, but can't win?

2. Cowboys and the no name team: Washington (How strange it is to have a team with only the city where they play,
the Washington Orphans?)  
Oh yea, we want to watch two teams that have a combined victory of six games.

3.  Yea, we get to see the Ravens and Steelers smash each other again.  Old time rock'um, sock'um football.


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## Lethe200

jerry old said:


> ......Turkey Day
> 1.  Texans play somebody-Texans are another team that 'What's wrong with these guys, they have the personnel, but can't win?
> 
> 2. Cowboys and the no name team: Washington (How strange it is to have a team with only the city where they play,
> the Washington Orphans?)


Jerry, I absolutely LOVE that name - now *Washington Orphans* is stuck in my mind forever, LOL!

Yes, that was a really tough injury for Burroughs. Chargers QB Herbert will waltz off with Offensive Rookie of the Year award, no doubt. He deserves it, though, his stats are even better than Burroughs.


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## JustBonee

jerry old said:


> Turkey Day
> 1.  Texans play somebody-Texans are another team that 'What's wrong with these guys, they have the personnel, but can't win?



They did beat the Patriots this past weekend.   
But yeah,  the fired coach (Bill O'Brien)  _gave away_ good players because he didn't like them  ....   the team  lost their spirit!
..


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## jerry old

Bonnie said:


> They did beat the Patriots this past weekend.
> But yeah,  the fired coach (Bill O'Brien)  _gave away_ good players because he didn't like them  ....   the team  lost their spirit!



Bonnie, saw Watt raining hell three weeks ago about the lack-luster efforts of his teammates; you would thing
the amounts of money their making they would not require their bellies rubbed.  ('Please try to win today, please.)


Bonnie said:


> ..


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## Lethe200

Apologies, in my post #145 I misspelled Wash rookie Joe Burrow's name! Mea culpa.....

Bill O'Brien deserved to be fired for all his bonehead moves. It kills me every time I watch the AZ Cardinals on TV and see how amazing WR DeAndre Hopkins is. We have a couple of decent WRs on the Niners but they are nothing compared to Hopkins and Seattle's Metcalf. I would have LOVED to have Hopkins on the Niners team.

If Bill Walsh were still coaching, either Hopkins or Metcalf would be in a position someday to break Jerry Rice's NFL record of 22,895 receiving yards (14.8 yds per catch average). Walsh was a master at getting his TEs and WRs open to gain big yardage after the catch.

Larry Fitzgerald (yes, with the selfsame Cards) is second to Rice with 17,419 yds and 12.3 yd average. It'll be interesting to see if he can hang on for another 5 or 6 yrs and catch Rice.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 11 of the NFL Season * Pt 1 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 22, 2020 _(edited by lethe200, with excerpts added from Washington Post by Adam Kilgore)_

The NFC field is just about set. With six weeks left in the season, the entire NFC outside of the harebrained NFC East is effectively playing for playoff seeding or draft position. Every team in the East has three wins, and one of them will win the division and (pause for exceedingly long and deep sigh) host a playoff game.

The other six NFC spots, presuming all 17 weeks are played and the NFL does not add an extra playoff team, are locked up practically, if not mathematically. The Saints, Green Bay Packers, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Seattle Seahawks, Los Angeles Rams and Arizona Cardinals will all have at least six wins after this week, and it’s hard to see any other NFC teams cracking that group.

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games **Except when it takes more.

*Steelers 27, Jaguars 3.* Jake Luton, a rookie Jacksonville drafted in the sixth round this year, made his third career start in place of the injured Gardner Minshew and turned in one of the worst games you’ll see. Luton completed only 16 of 37 passes for 151 yds. He didn’t throw a TD and was intercepted four times, for a dismal passing mark of 15.5.

Pittsburgh thus became the NFL’s first 10-0 team since 2015. Their rookie WR Chase Claypool caught a 31-yard scoring pass in Q2 - his 10th total TD of the season, now the most in a rookie WR’s first 10 games in the Super Bowl era. The Steelers will try to get to 11-0 when they host the struggling Baltimore Ravens on Thursday.

*Titans 30, Ravens 24 (overtime).* Since their bye week, the Ravens have lost three of four games. Lamar Jackson has been part of the problem with four interceptions in that span - he had only six in 15 starts last season. The Ravens were up 21-10 in Q3 on a Jackson touchdown pass to Mark Andrews. Then the Ravens’ tackling fell apart and they squandered the lead. They received the ball first in overtime, only to go three-and-out.

The Titans marched downfield, and star running back Derrick Henry ran through several Ravens’ arms at the line as he burst for a 29-yard touchdown to win it. The Ravens now find themselves outside the playoff picture at 6-4 and suffering an identity crisis after losing three out of four. Right now they’re reeling, and last year seems awfully long ago.

*Colts 34, Packers 31 (overtime).* Philip Rivers threw three TD passes and Jonathan Taylor rushed for 90 yds, but Indianapolis was nearly undone by five holding penalties late in Q4 that prevented it from running out the clock. But in OT the defense showed up when it mattered. GBay went into halftime leading by 28-14, but the second half was another story, as Indianapolis scored 17 consecutive points, while the Packers managed just a field goal on five possessions. That field goal was enough to force OT, but on the second play of the OT, Colts’ DeForest Buckner scooped up GBay’s Valdes-Scantling’s fumble. The Colts managed a FG to escape with a 34-31 victory. It keeps Indianapolis on top of the AFC South and dropped GBay to 7-3.

*Chiefs 35, Raiders 31.* The Raiders came very close to giving the Chiefs their second loss, but Mahomes proved again that the Chiefs’ Two-Minute Drill is more like a 90-second sprint to the end zone. Derek Carr had another excellent game for the Raiders, showing that stability in an offensive system for a good QB – this is his third year in Gruden’s playbook – means as much or more as a strong arm. Carr hit TE Jason Witten for a 2-yard TD pass that gave LVegas a lead with just 1 minute 48 seconds remaining.

But for KC’s Patrick Mahomes, that was more than enough. The Chiefs faced only one third down, on a third and one. Mahomes completed six of the seven passes he threw, to four different receivers. He took his team 75 yds on just seven plays, retaking the lead with a 22-yard TD pass to Travis Kelce.

Mahomes makes mind-blowing plays that often receive little notice because he makes them look easy, when they’re not. In the third quarter, he spun away from a pass rusher who broke free up the middle, darted to his left, threw off the wrong foot, away from his momentum, across his body, over the middle for a first down. NBC’s broadcasters treated the play as if he had pitched a simple square out. Mahomes has inured everyone to his greatness, blinding us to how wide the margin is. He even left 28 seconds on the clock for good measure.

*Texans 27, Patriots 20.* A loss was bad enough, but NE also presumably lost RB Rex Burkhead for the rest of the season to a knee injury that was severe enough that CBS chose not to show replays of it. The eight-year veteran had six TDs in 10 games and was well on his way to surpassing his career-high of eight.

*Saints 24, Falcons 9.* Taysom Hill is known more for his versatility than his passing, but he had a nice all-around effort for New Orleans in a win. He came into the day with more career tackles (13) than completions (10). But he got the job done, even if it wasn’t always pretty. Starting in place of the injured Drew Brees, Hill completed 18 of 23 passes for 233 yds, ran for 51 yds in ten carries, scoring two TDs in a 24-9 win. The only blemish was a fumble at the end of a long run. The New Orleans defense starred, sacking Matt Ryan eight times, intercepting him twice and allowing Atlanta to convert just two of its 14 third-down opportunities. Ryan was playing with a taped broken finger, and is probably thinking he should have just sat out this game.

And that’s the reason why the Saints (8–2) will be fine while Brees’ broken ribs heal: it is built foremost on a great defense. The Saints have the best run defense in the NFL, and on Sunday they sacked Matt Ryan eight times while intercepting him twice. Hill doesn’t have to do much other than take care of the ball. The Saints won easily even as Alvin Kamara carried only 13 times and didn’t catch a pass for the first time in his career.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 11 of the NFL Season * Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 22, 2020 _(edited by lethe200, with excerpts added from Washington Post by Adam Kilgore)_

*Cowboys 31, Vikings 28.* Ezekiel Elliott rushed for 103 yds and Dallas (3–7) came from behind to take the lead with less than two minutes remaining thanks to Andy Dalton’s third TD pass of the day. Minnesota (4–6) put up 430 total yds, but its defense was once again its undoing.

*Broncos 20, Dolphins 13.* Rookie quarterback Tua Tagovailoa won his first three starts, validating Coach Brian Flores’s bold move to bench Ryan Fitzpatrick in the middle of a playoff push. But then the Dolphins lost, 20-13, to the middling Denver Broncos (4–6). Tagovailoa played so poorly he was benched early in Q4. He had 11 of 20 passes for only 83 yds passing through three quarters, with one TD while taking six sacks. Denver Coach Vic Fangio is known for exotic schemes and blitzes, and Tagovailoa looked like an uncertain rookie.

Miami back-up Ryan Fitzpatrick provided only a slight upgrade as he completed 12 of 18 attempts for 117 yards and an interception. Miami fell to 6-4, and is now faced with a quarterback controversy, with Flores naming Tagovailoa the starter next week. Miami faces a challenging path back into the crowded AFC playoff picture.

*Chargers 34, Jets 28.* Gang Green was down by 24-6 at halftime and was struggling to contain QB Justin Herbert, but Coach Adam Gase appeared to take over play-calling duties and the Jets were far more effective in the second half, with three TD drives that each went for more than 70 yds, albeit in a losing cause.

While Gang Green’s young defense brought some juice early in the game, Chargers rookie Herbert once again dominated, throwing for 366 yds and three touchdowns. It was good to see the Jets evaluating some of their young players, but Herbert had his way with them through the air. Keenan Allen also had fun toying with the Jets’ neophytes, as the Chargers wideout finished with 16 catches, 145 yards and one score.

*Panthers 20, Lions 0.* P.J. Walker was mostly known for being the leading passer in the XFL when that league was shuttered by the pandemic. Subbing in for the injured Teddy Bridgewater, Walker kept Carolina’s offense moving just fine in a 20-0 blowout of Detroit, doing enough damage that his two red zone interceptions could be forgiven.

Detroit’s Matthew Stafford played with an injured thumb on his throwing hand, and he probably should have sat this one out. He was sacked five times and the Lions (4–6) were shutout for the first time in his 159 career starts. It was the first shutout for Carolina’s defense since 2015.

*Browns 22, Eagles 17. *The Philadelphia Eagles have some big Carson Wentz questions to answer. Wentz continued his year-long spiral in the Eagles’ 22-17 loss, throwing two more interceptions to nudge his league-high total to 14. The first pick he threw was a pick-6. Wentz ranks 32nd out of 33 qualifying quarterbacks in adjusted yards per pass attempt, a stat that takes interceptions, sacks and yardage gained into account. He is ranked 31st in passer rating.

The Eagles have to ask themselves why this has happened. How much blame might Coach Doug Pederson deserve for Wentz’s regression? Wentz has not been the same player since OC Frank Reich left after 2017 to become the Indianapolis Colts’ head coach. Philadelphia’s offense frequently lacks coherence and uses personnel in odd ways. Wentz has a dead cap hit of $59 million in 2021, which makes cutting ties with him difficult. But one of the most promising players in the NFL has bottomed out - even though the Eagles still somehow lead the NFC East.

Three consecutive home games for Cleveland have resulted in three ugly games, but the Browns have now walked away with two wins by letting the team’s running game and defense do the bulk of the work in adverse weather conditions. At 7-3, the Browns have their best 10-game start since 1994.

*Footballers 20, Bengals 9.* Regardless of the Bengals’ poor record, rookie QB Joe Burrow had largely lived up to his hype, throwing for 2,688 yds, trailing only Andrew Luck, Patrick Mahomes and Cam Newton for the most in a QB’s first 10 starts. But his season ended when he was sandwiched between a pair of Washington defenders in Q3. Burrow tweeted - before the game had even finished - that he would see everyone next year, after his left knee injury.

Unfortunately, an MRI showed more damage than anticipated. Burrow has suffered a torn ACL, torn MCL and other structural issues in his knee. He will undergo reconstructive surgery, but it’s unclear whether he’ll be ready to go in nine months, when the 2021 regular season is getting started.

It was the first win for Washington QB Alex Smith in more than two years following his own devastating leg injury in 2018. Before the cart left the field, Washington’s Dwayne Haskins (No. 7), Chase Young (No. 99) and Terry McLaurin (No. 17) came out to wish him well. All three played with Burrow at Ohio State and Young was selected one pick after him in this year’s draft.


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## jerry old

Lethe200 talks about deadhead coaches in post #148

The NFL coaches are not a lot of brainy people.  
There are  three that are outstanding, the rest are ho-hum
(You know more about you hometown coach than I do.)


Looking over the last 50 years at coaches:

Tom Landry, the Cowboy coach for 20+ years was a 'brainy' coach.
His game plan for each game was explained, 'Here is what you need to do to win.'
His game plan were flawless, but he could not get his players motivated to follow his advise
He was far from a 'Rah, Rah' guy; his players were keep at arm's length.
_He did not believe players and coaches should fraternize_

Lethe200 mentions Bill Walsh
On the other hand, Bill Walsh was another brainy coach, but he 
_would fraternize with his players._
He never let a personal preference interfere with his football decisions..

Then of course, there is BB (Belichick) He tells players "Do your Job.')
Really don't know that much on how BB motivates his players.

I think Paul Brown was the best.
What is your favorite, or who do you think is/was the best coach


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## JustBonee

Two of my favorite coaches in the NFL were  Don Shula,  who I just adored over the years ... he could do no wrong as far as I was concerned,  and then there was John Madden.  Any game with him on the sideline was so entertaining!


----------



## jerry old

Oops, forgot about Shula-Madden was a real rah, rah coach, cuss and holler. 
 Of course, with that wild bunch in Oakland he needed to cuss
and holler.


----------



## Don M.

The KC Chiefs are still hanging in there....although a couple of their wins have come down to the final minute or two.  I just hope they make it to the Super Bowl...and WIN.


----------



## Lethe200

*Thanksgiving Games*
SB Nation/Cowboys and NY Times 26Nov2020, edited by lethe200

*Washington Football Team 41, Dallas Cowboys 16*
Every team in the NFC East has three wins, but each is trending in a different direction. The Eagles appear to be sinking, the Giants are making fewer mistakes, the Footballers (3-7) have found some life on offense, and the Cowboys (3-7) looked downright good in last weekend’s win over Minnesota.

But now Dallas is probably out of the playoff picture. Ezekiel Elliott keeps fumbling, HC Mike McCarthy was defending questionable playcalling afterwards, and two of their best OL players went out with injuries on the very first drive. Washington got 4 sacks in this game. Defensive penalties gave Washington second chances – twice on one drive – and they took advantage of it for another rushing TD. Dallas’ D kept getting slashed by third down conversions. Washington was 7-13 on third downs.

The Cowboys defense had shown improvement against the run in recent games, but they were just all out of sorts against Washington. As a team, Washington averaged over five yards a carry churning out 182 yards. Their offensive line did a great job sealing the edge and creating holes for their running backs. The Cowboys defense was completely out of position several times, allowing big holes that resulted in two 20+ rushing touchdowns by rookie RB Gibson.

Dallas still had a shot at the start of the third quarter as they only trailed 20-16 and had the ball. But their fake punt flopped, and Washington responded immediately as they reeled off three unanswered touchdowns to complete yet another rout of the Cowboys.

*Houston Texans 41, Detroit Lions 25*
The Lions’ playing on Thanksgiving is a tradition that stretches back to 1934 (with a break during World War II). Detroit (4-6) is 37-40-2 in those games.

But the 2020 Lions are a mess. Detroit had three turnovers in the first half that led to 10 Texans points -- a JJ Watt pick-6 interception that resulted in a defensive TD and then two fumbles. Houston had only five takeaways in 10 games this year, but had three in the first half against a Lions team that just can't get out of its own way. The turnovers kept Detroit from challenging a Texans defense that has allowed the most rushing yards and the highest yards per rush attempt in the league.

Deshaun Watson is having a career year, which has gone unnoticed thanks to the Texans front office and coaching problems. He savaged the Lions putrid secondary, throwing for four TDs -- including two backbreakers to Will Fuller in Q4 to put the game away. Houston ran for just 77 yards and 33 yards per carry, so it was up to Watson to carry the offense again. Watson threw just eight incomplete passes while averaging 12.7 yards per attempt and finishing with a 150.4 passer rating -- the fourth-highest all-time on Thanksgiving (minimum 20 attempts).


----------



## Lethe200

Hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving! 

*NFL Week 12 Predictions / Thanksgiving game results * Pt 1 of 2
Baltimore’s matchup with Pittsburgh has been delayed until Sunday due to coronavirus
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 26, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Thanksgiving Games:*
Washington Football Team 41, Dallas Cowboys 16
Houston Texans 41, Detroit Lions 25

*Sunday’s Best Games

KC Chiefs at TBay Buccaneers, 4:25 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Chiefs
Tom Brady already has more TD passes, 25, for the Buccaneers (7-4) than he had all of last season for the Patriots, with TBay averaging 29.1 points a game. But he has already thrown more interceptions than he did last year, at his highest rate since 2009. More troubling - given his team’s star-studded collection of pass catchers - is his complete inability to stretch the field. According to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, Brady’s last 22 pass attempts of 20 or more yds have fallen incomplete - the longest such stretch for any QB since 2017.

TBay has risen to the occasion against several good teams - delivering convincing wins against the Panthers, the Raiders and the Packers - yet looked inept in losses to the Rams, the Saints (twice) and the Bears. The Chiefs (9-1) on the other hand, have no such problems with consistency. KC might want to work out the trouble it had slowing down the offense of its LVegas division rival, but the Chiefs are a sterling 8-0 against other teams, with Patrick Mahomes presumably on the way to his second Most Valuable Player Award.

At their best, the Buccaneers could beat the Chiefs. But knowing which version of TBay will show up is impossible to predict.

*Baltimore Ravens at Pittsburgh Steelers, 1:15 p.m., NBC*
Pick: Steelers
It has been a rough stretch for the Ravens (6-4). After losing three of their last four games, its facilities closed down due to multiple positive coronavirus tests among players and staff. Out of an “abundance of caution,” the NFL delayed this game from Thursday until Sunday.

RBs Mark Ingram and J.K. Dobbins are both on the Covid-19 reserve list after positive tests, and their expected absence will dramatically weaken the Ravens running game - its biggest strength. Baltimore’s offense is deep enough that the plan of attack won’t change much. Gus Edwards will presumably receive the bulk of the carries. But on Thanksgiving day, QB Lamar Jackson tested positive, and is now on the COVID reserve list. Without him, a win vs the Steelers seems iffy at best.

The Steelers (10-0) are talented, but probably not “undefeated season” talented. If the Ravens aren’t able to somehow pull it together, Pittsburgh will have a leg up in its quest to become the first 11-0 team since the 2015 Carolina Panthers.

*LA Chargers at Buffalo Bills, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Bills
When last seen, the Bills (7-3) were having their hearts broken by Arizona’s Kyler’s “Hail Murray” pass to DeAndre Hopkins. Just how much momentum that play sucked away from Buffalo will be determined this weekend in a home game against the Chargers (3-7), who have suffered too many injuries on defense to be relevant, but have enough offensive talent alongside QB Justin Herbert to cause problems for any opponent.

It is expected to be 49 degrees and clear at game time in Orchard Park, N.Y., conditions that will keep the passing game in play and lead to a fairly entertaining shootout between Herbert and the Bills’ Josh Allen. Buffalo is likely to win, but the score should be closer than oddsmakers are predicting.

*Tennessee Titans at Indianapolis Colts, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Colts
Despite an ugly start last weekend, the Colts (7-3) showed how great their defense can be in a thrilling win over GBay. The Colts will be without star defensive tackle DeForest Buckner who is on the Covid-19 reserve list, and face another stiff test this week from the Titans (7-3), who bested Baltimore in OT. To add spice, this game could go a long way to determining which of these teams win the AFC South.

The Colts are a much more balanced team. They’re playing at home, and it is easy to imagine their offense putting up a huge number of points against Tennessee’s banged-up defense. The Colts may have too many advantages to doubt them.

*SF 49ers at LA Rams, 4:05 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Rams
There is a difference between a bad team and one that is simply overcome by injuries, and SF (4-6) has been more of the latter in its letdown season. The Upshot still gives the 49ers an 11 percent chance of qualifying for the postseason, but the team is more suited to a different role: spoiler.

This week, the 49ers travel to LA to face the surging Rams (7-3) who have pulled even with Seattle at the top of the NFC West. SF QB Jimmy Garoppolo remains out with a high ankle sprain, but the team looks likely to have RBs Raheem Mostert, Tevin Coleman and Jeff Wilson back from their injuries. If WR Brandon Aiyuk is cleared from the Covid-19 reserve list in time for this game, Coach Kyle Shanahan could devise a run-heavy game plan using those four players to make up for the current weakness at QB.

Will that be enough to beat the Rams? Maybe not. To make a division rival sweat a little? Absolutely.

*Sunday’s Other Games

Las Vegas Raiders at Atlanta Falcons, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Raiders
There is no such thing as a moral victory, but the Raiders (6-4) should be holding their heads high after very nearly beating the Chiefs in a game that came down to which team had the ball last. After giving the Chiefs a scare (and earlier this year their only loss so far), the Raiders shouldn’t find the Falcons (3-7) to be much of a problem. Now in his seventh season, QB Derek Carr has helped transform the LVegas Raiders into one of the better teams in the NFL. It tells you how young these Raiders are that at age 29, Carr refers to himself as “the old man around here”.

Atlanta is 1-4 in Mercedes-Benz Stadium, and the team’s porous secondary will be in trouble trying to slow down the strong-armed Raiders QB. The unclear status of the Falcons’ great WR Julio Jones’s injured hamstring makes Atlanta’s efficacy just as questionable.


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Week 12 Predictions / Thanksgiving game results * Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 26, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Chicago Bears at GBay Packers, 8:20 p.m., NBC*
Pick: Packers
Aaron Rodgers is coming off a disappointing loss, is going up against a division rival that might be starting a third-string QB and is playing in prime time. You might expect Packers fireworks in such a situation, but Chicago’s defense commands respect regardless of the team’s four-game losing streak.

Knowing that GBay (7-3) can score 25+ points against almost any team, the question is how many points Chicago can score against the Packers’ inconsistent defense. Chicago might get RB David Montgomery back this week, but the choice for the Bears (5-5) at QB will come down to the health of Nick Foles vs Mitchell Trubisky. If neither can go, Tyler Bray will presumably start. All three, at this point in their careers, are bad. The scoring should be fairly low, but it could still result in a lopsided win for GBay.

*Carolina Panthers at Minnesota Vikings, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Vikings
QB Teddy Bridgewater and RB Christian McCaffrey both practiced on Wednesday, but it’s possible that Carolina (4-7) will hold either or both out of the game since the Panthers’ next week bye would give both a chance to get closer to 100%. Should Bridgewater be active, however, he could do heavy damage against the Vikings (4-6), even without McCaffrey, as the Panthers have a fairly underrated collection of receivers. If Bridgewater is out, the math changes.

*Cleveland Browns at Jacksonville Jaguars, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Browns
After slogging through three consecutive home games in cold, wet conditions, the Browns (7-3) might feel as if they are on vacation when they visit the Jaguars (1-9). The expected game-time temperature of 76 degrees will be helpful, and Jacksonville’s horrible defense should relax Cleveland even more. That the Jaguars appear set to start Mike Glennon at QB makes any thought of an upset laughable. Anything can happen, but Cleveland should romp.

*Arizona Cardinals at NE Patriots, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Cardinals
As recently as 2019, a visit from a first- or second-year QB to Foxborough, Mass., could be marked down as a win for NE before kickoff. But no longer. Kyler Murray and the Cardinals (6-4) head into NE as favorites. Arizona hasn’t been a consistent performer, but the Patriots (4-6) struggle far more to be competitive on a week-to-week basis.

*New Orleans Saints at Denver Broncos, 4:05 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Saints
The Saints (8-2), who have won seven straight, didn’t slow down much after a switch to Taysom Hill at starting QB last week against the Falcons. Playing the Broncos (4-6) and their tough defense on the road will present more of a challenge than Atlanta did. But New Orleans should be able to do enough on both sides of the ball to win this game, even if Hill comes back down to Earth. He just needs to keep his cool and not make too many rookie mistakes.

In last week’s win over Atlanta, the Saints’ Alvin Kamara was held without a catch for the first time in his career. He also played fewer snaps than Latavius Murray. If Kamara is completely healthy this week, he should have a much larger role.

*Miami Dolphins at Jets, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Dolphins
Proving that nearly all evaluation is done via the scoreboard, QB Tua Tagovailoa’s passing statistics for Miami (6-4) in last week’s loss to Denver were not appreciably different from what he delivered against the Rams three weeks before, but this time around he was benched in Q4 rather than lauded for leading his team to a win. The switch back to Ryan Fitzpatrick was temporary - and didn’t work - so Tagovailoa will get his fifth straight start. If Tagovailoa is ever going to have a big week, it will probably come against the Jets (0-10).

*Giants at Cincinnati Bengals, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Giants
QB Brandon Allen was on Cincinnati’s practice squad two weeks ago, but now will start for the Bengals (2-7-1) against the suddenly competent Giants (3-7). The downgrade from Joe Burrow - who is out for the year with a severe knee injury - is palpable. And that’s bad news when going against the Giants, who have either won or lost by a single score in every game since Week 3. For once the Giants are on a roll with a two-game divisional winning streak, and they look likely to extend it to a whopping three-fer.

*Monday’s Matchup

Seattle Seahawks at Philadelphia Eagles, 8:15 p.m., ESPN*
Pick: Seahawks
The Seahawks (7-3) have shown themselves as flawed contenders in recent weeks, but nearly all of their problems are on defense. That hardly seems like a factor against the Eagles (3-6-1), who lost last week to the Giants. Philadelphia is plagued by more than injuries.

QB Carson Wentz’s decline has turned into a cliff-dive, and his 2020 numbers lump him in with some of the worst starting QBs in the NFL. The Eagles need to find a clone of OC Frank Reich, who left to become the Colts’ HC in 2018. Wentz hasn’t been the same ever since. Even if Wentz can find some relief in the form of Seattle’s secondary - hardly a given – no one can see him keeping up with Russell Wilson.

Seattle needs a win to stay even with the suddenly improved LA Rams, who are likely to win against the injury-crippled Niners. But Seattle has a powder-puff schedule for four weeks against lesser East Coast teams, while the Rams have only two easy games out of four. But the competitive NFC West may go right down to the wire, as the last two games of the year pit all four teams against one another in divisional battles.


----------



## Lethe200

Late-breaking newsflash:

*Ravens Game Against Steelers Is Moved Again, to Tuesday Night*
Lamar Jackson, the N.F.L.’s 2019 M.V.P., was among more than a dozen Baltimore players to have reportedly tested positive for the virus.
NY Times 28Nov2020

For the second time this week, the N.F.L. has rescheduled the matchup between the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Baltimore Ravens, moving it to Tuesday night from Sunday, after the coronavirus outbreak in the Ravens’ clubhouse spread further on Thursday, the original day of the game.

It will be the second N.F.L. game of this season to be held on a Tuesday night; the Titans beat the Bills on Oct. 13. Because the Ravens are now playing on Tuesday, their following game, scheduled for just two days later against the Dallas Cowboys, will now be played on Monday, Dec. 7, assuming the outbreak in Baltimore does not spread further.


----------



## oldman

Today, the Denver Broncos have no quarterbacks to play, so they are bringing up a wide receiver from the practice squad to fill that spot. This should be interesting for awhile.


----------



## JustBonee

oldman said:


> Today, the Denver Broncos have no quarterbacks to play, so they are bringing up a wide receiver from the practice squad to fill that spot. This should be interesting for awhile.


 What a season!


----------



## Chet

Does anybody watch those whiny knee-takers anymore?


----------



## Lethe200

The Saints are one of the few teams that have back-up QBs in their regular receivers. Not only is Taysom Hill doing a decent job as a 3rd string QB stepping in for Brees, but Alvin Kamara, their first-string RB, was a former college QB!

The Saints have only one tough game left on their schedule - going up against KC Chiefs on 12/20 - so unless the Vikes and the Panthers straighten themselves out in the next few weeks (Saints play them on their last 2 games of 2020), they are likely to win their division. 

NFC West is a cat fight that will probably remain undecided until the final week or two, when all four teams play one another. Niners can only be spoilers, at this point.


----------



## Irwin

The Broncos played as expected without a QB. They wouldn't have lost by nearly that much if Lock was playing. They still would have lost, but not by as much.

The Broncos need to get rid of Elway. He was a great QB, but he sucks as GM. He can't seem to get any really good offensive players. Other teams can, so why can't he?


----------



## jerry old

It is Wednesday, 3:30 P M  The Steelers and Ravens are playing on NBC
Is this live?
Addendum Yes, it is a sanctioned game, making up for postponed game-real peculiar watching a game on Wednesday afternoon,
had no idea it was to be played....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Post 2, Well it lived up to expectations, a rock'um, sock'um defensive struggle.
Boy, what defenses both teams have.--

Irwin and others ask: How come our teams can't pull themselves out of the mire and be contenders?
You would think these people are supposed to be running business.
It has to be personalities, here in Dallas, Jerry Jones is a brilliant business man, but his ego won't let others make
decisions.
Jerry Jones never saw an offensive star he didn't like, QB, wide receivers, running backs.
The no-name personnel that block, well 'we can pick up an offensive line. in the late rounds of the draft.

The defensive, well anyone can tackel or knock down a pass,


----------



## DaveA

Am   I alone in getting tired of some teams getting to the 30 yard line and settling for a 50 yard field goal.  I wish they'd narrow the goal posts to make it more difficult to score from midfield.

I know people like high scoring games but I'd rather see them pick up the points via running and passing.  Making it a bit tougher to kick a FG would force teams to extend the line of scrimmage to the 20 before settling for the automatic 3 pts.

Again - -just my opinion.


----------



## jerry old

kicking is part of soccer. as Garo Yepremain (from Austria) said, while playing for Miami said,
"I kick a touchdown."

Watching the Ravens and Steelers knock heads today was a pleasure-two teams that know how to play defense.


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 12 of the NFL Season * Pt 1 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 29, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games **Except when it takes more.

*Bills 27, Chargers 17.* Buffalo’s defense did most of the heavy lifting in this win at home, but Josh Allen threw a 2-yard TD pass, and ran in a 3-yard score, giving him 15 career games with both a passing and a rushing TD. In 39 career games, Allen has 52 TD passes and 23 rushing TDs. Allen trails only Cam Newton, who had 20, for the most such games in a player’s first three seasons.

*Chiefs 27, Buccaneers 24. *Tyreek Hill showed how vulnerable the Buccaneers are to elite speed by burning the team for 203 yds receiving and two TDs - in the first quarter. It was the most receiving yds in a quarter for any player since 2006 and the most receiving yds in a game for a player all season. Hill finished the day with 13 catches on 15 targets for 269 yds and three TDs. But the last 8 yds were the most vital. Hill’s catch on a short pass with 1:15 remaining gave KC a first down, allowing them to run out the clock in a game that threatened to slip away.

In a season in which he continually seems to get better, Mahomes has had an NFL record of at least 30 completions and 300 yds passing in four consecutive games. His 462 yds passing on Sunday were the second-most in his outrageous career, and 229 of them came in the first quarter. He is up to 3,497 yds passing and 30 TDs for the season and has thrown just two interceptions. In three seasons, Mahomes has thrown for at least 400 yds five times. In the must-see play of the game, Patrick Mahomes, who increasingly seems assured of winning his second career MVP Award, completed a 75-yard TD pass to Hill in which the ball traveled more than 60 yds in the air.

*Titans 45, Colts 26. *The Colts were dealt quite a blow when DT DeForest Buckner was ruled out of this game following a positive test for the coronavirus. The massive interior lineman is a key part of Indianapolis’ D and without him - and already missing two other important starters on defense - the Colts were sunk. Indianapolis got 295 yds passing from Philip Rivers, and two rushing TDs from backup QB Jacoby Brissett, but that wasn’t enough to compete with Tennessee, which could have taken the entire second half off on offense and still won.

Titans RB Derrick Henry rumbled for 178 yds and three TDs. All three of Henry’s TDs came in a laugher in which Tennessee went into halftime leading 35-14. With the 45-26 win, the Titans (8-3) took sole possession of first place in the AFC South. They stand a good chance of holding onto that lead, as they face teams with losing records in three of their final five games.

*49ers 23, Rams 20.* The defending NFC West champs Niners have little chance this year to achieve more than a tenuous wild card spot. But for the second year they have swept their divisional games with the Rams. DC Robert Saleh, who must be heading up every NFL HC candidate list going forward, worked his magic with a depleted corps to thwart Rams HC Payton’s offensive schemes right up to the end of Q3. They allowed their divisional rivals one short burst of hope, then shut them down hard again.

The Niners D was helped by the return of Richard Sherman, back from IR after a 9-week absence. He had a team-leading 7 sacks, a beautiful in-stride interception of Jared Goff, and was the one who chased down LA’s Cam Akers on a 61-yd sprint in late Q3 that could have easily changed the momentum of the game over to the Rams. The Rams scored a go-ahead TD but were throttled again on their next two drives, finally forced to punt with 2:10 left to play and the score tied. Niners back-up QB Mullens got the win during a 56-yard drive with an unexpected pass to FB Kyle Juszczyk. It converted a fourth-and-1 with 28 seconds left, setting up Robbie Gould for a third FG to win.

Niners RBs Raheem Mostert and Jeff Wilson returned from injury - a welcome sight - but this upset was powered by WR Deebo Samuel, who had 11 catches for 133 yds, and massive rookie defensive tackle Javon Kinlaw, who had a 27-yard pick-6. He has a listed weight of 324 pounds, but looked surprisingly speedy and agile escaping Rams trying to stop him. Kinlaw was the Niners’ first round draft pick for 2020, and looks to be another D find that may be as good as their 2019 pick of Nick Bosa.

Fox Sports did a roll call list of the 25 injured Niners during 2020. And the Niners still couldn’t escape adding to it – CB Jamar Taylor went down with a torn MCL left knee injury. He was just signed on Oct. 2nd to replace the first- and second-string CBs who were already out on IR. Taylor was signed on a 1-yr contract and is now out for the season and probably off the team. He was in tears as the cart carried him off.

*Patriots 20, Cardinals 17.* Arizona came into the day averaging 414.3 yds a game, but New England limited the Cardinals to a respectable 298. Kyler Murray was held without a TD pass for the first time since Dec. 1, 2019. The Pats are now 5–6, with their D playing its best game of the season. WR N'Keal Harry is a 2019 first-round bust so far for the Pats, who aren’t getting much for the 4 yr $10M contract he signed. The Pats offense continues to be anemic, but the special teams play was top-notch, as usual with Belichick’s teams.

*Browns 27, Jaguars 25.* Florida’s warm weather helped wake up Cleveland’s passing game, with Baker Mayfield throwing for 258 yds and two TDs. But the Browns are unlikely to change their run-heavy approach going forward since Mayfield also missed badly on several other potential TDs while RB Nick Chubb raced for 144 yds on 19 carries.


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 12 of the NFL Season * Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Nov. 29, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Vikings 28, Panthers 27.* This game had two remarkable moments, one for each team. In Q3, the Panthers’ rookie LB Jeremy Chinn scooped up a Kirk Cousins fumble and returned it 17 yds for a TD. Carolina’s kickoff resulted in a touchback, and on the first play of the next series, as the broadcast crew attempted to recap Chinn’s previous TD, he helped force a Dalvin Cook fumble before picking the ball up and taking it 30 yds for his second score. Chinn became the first player with multiple fumble returns for a TD in a game since Fred Evans did it for Chicago in 1948. Chinn is believed to be the first defensive player in NFL history to score TDs on consecutive snaps.

Somehow that 14-point swing, which resulted in the Panthers leading by 21-10 early in the second half, did not end with a Carolina victory. It was Minnesota’s turn for a feel-good moment when WR Chad Beebe muffed the catch on a punt return in late Q4, letting Carolina extend its lead with a FG, only to then score the go-ahead TD on his team’s ensuing possession. Cousins found Chad Beebe for a 10-yard TD pass with just 46 seconds left in the game to secure a shocking 28-27 win at home for the Vikings.

*Saints 31, Broncos 3*. The QB-less Broncos were thrown to the wolves against the red-hot New Orleans Saints. Kendall Hinton, a rookie WR from the team’s practice squad, took the majority of snaps under center despite not having played the position regularly since 2017 - his third year in college at Wake Forest. Hinton, who took the impossible assignment without complaint, completed just 1 of 9 passes for 13 yds, and was intercepted twice.

New Orleans managed just 78 in Taysom Hill’s second career start at QB. But that will suffice when the Saints’ running game can generate 229 yds and four TDs every week.

*Packers 41, Bears 25.* GBay’s Aaron Rodgers had an easy day against Chicago’s defense, throwing for 211 yds and four TDs. He wasn’t sacked and no Bears players were credited with a QB hit. Rodgers dominated Chicago by throwing four TD passes in a 41-25 victory, and in doing so he reached 50,000 yds passing for his career.

It was 41-10 in the third quarter when the Packers decided they had worked long enough and let Chicago do whatever it wanted for the rest of the game. The result was a final score that was far closer than the game ever felt, but it was easy to imagine GBay scoring 50 or more points if the team had kept pressing.

*Giants 19, Bengals 17.* Despite losing QB Daniel Jones to a hamstring injury in the third quarter, Big Blue was able to fight its way past a Joe Burrow-less Cincinnati. RB Wayne Gallman rushed for 94 yds and a TD in the Giants’ win. Backup QB Colt McCoy didn’t do much, but the Giants scored three FGs following Jones’s injury, which was enough to secure the team’s third straight win. The 4-7 Giants are tied with Washington for first place in the NFC East ahead of 3-6-1 Philadelphia’s game on Monday against Seattle.

*Falcons 43, Raiders 6*. A game can go sideways on one play. The Raiders were 3-point favorites on the road in Atlanta, but after a slow first half, LVegas was trailing the Falcons by 6-3 late in the second quarter. Then Atlanta’s Younghoe Koo missed a 40-yard FG attempt wide right. Unfortunately for LVegas, safety Dallin Leavitt fell down at the end of the play and rolled into Koo, receiving a questionable roughing the kicker penalty. Four plays later, Matt Ryan found WR Calvin Ridley for a 4-yard TD pass. From there the Falcons were off to the races, taking advantage of four more LVegas turnovers, ending the game with five turnovers total.

After the Raiders’ loss last week, much of the talk centered on how well QB Derek Carr had played against KC. He turned that narrative on its head by losing three fumbles and throwing a pick-6 in a humiliating loss. The Raiders came out flat, and didn’t help themselves with too many defensive penalties that kept Falcons drives going. A wild card spot now looks much less possible, and there are dissatisfied rumblings from Raiders fans.

*Dolphins 20, Jets 3.* Because of a thumb injury on Tua Tagovailoa’s throwing hand, Ryan Fitzpatrick was forced into a start against one of his many former teams, and he helped get Miami back on track following last week’s loss to Denver by throwing for 257 yds and two TDs.

In his first action since Week 8, QB Sam Darnold was far less effective than Joe Flacco had been in his place, leading his team on drives that resulted in six punts, two interceptions, a missed FG and a turnover on downs in which aging RB Frank Gore was knocked back for a 1-yard loss on a fourth-and-1 play in the red zone. After that 3-0 start to the game, the Jets lost by 20-3.

Playing at home against a Dolphins team that was missing its starting QB because of an injury may have been the Jets’ best chance for a win this season, but they couldn’t pull it off. The 0-11 Jets have only one game remaining against a team that currently has a losing record.

*Monday Night Football: Seattle 23, Eagles 17.*
Seattle's win marks seven straight victories against the Eagles, who have yet to beat Seattle since Pete Carroll took over as head coach. It keeps the 'Hawks atop the NFC West at 8-3 and drops Philly all the way to 3-7-1 in the NFC East. Seattle’s WR D.K. Metcalf finished with 10 catches for 177 yards, and could easily have doubled that against a secondary that couldn’t match up with him, although they managed to keep high-scoring Russell Wilson reasonably well-contained. But Philly’s lack of offense killed them, whether you want to blame HC Pederson or QB Carson Wentz. Wentz got little help from the O-line, receiving corps and coaching staff, which is par for the course in 2020, but was also off-target as usual, failing to connect on open downfield looks and miscommunicating on a red-zone pick.


----------



## JustBonee

jerry old said:


> kicking is part of soccer. as Garo Yepremain (from Austria) said, while playing for Miami said,
> "I kick a touchdown."
> 
> Watching the Ravens and Steelers knock heads today was a pleasure-two teams that know how to play defense.


Darn! ... missed that game!


----------



## Lethe200

Bonnie said:


> Darn! ... missed that game!


I did too - they didn't show it out on the West Coast


----------



## Lethe200

It's becoming a blur as we race to the end of the year. It's true that once you're over the hill, you pick up speed, LOL. I feel like Jean-Claude Killy on the Olympic grand slalom!

*NFL Week 13 Predictions * Pt 1 of 2 (all TV times EST)
Things got messy for the NFL in Week 12. All 16 games managed to be played, but the pandemic made games tenuous enough to make the rest of the season seem far more uncertain than it did a few weeks ago. Expect the league’s schedule going forward to be remarkably fluid, with changes possible at any point before game days.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Dec. 3, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Sunday’s Best Games

Cleveland Browns at Tennessee Titans, 1 p.m. CBS*
Pick: Titans
The Browns are 8-3 but their wins include Cincinnati, Houston, Philadelphia and Jacksonville. The Titans have the same record, but are a far bigger challenge.

The Browns have the NFL’s ninth-ranked run defense. Whether it can slow down Titan RB Derrick Henry, while also making sure QB Ryan Tannehill doesn’t have time to stretch the field, remains to be seen. But it’s hard to believe that Cleveland could simultaneously stack the box for Henry and adequately cover Tennessee’s receivers.

Tennessee has its own problems on defense, and will struggle to contain RBs Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt. But Browns QB Baker Mayfield has a tendency to be his own worst enemy. All it would take is a turnover or two to let this game get way out of hand.

*Los Angeles Rams at Arizona Cardinals, 4:05 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Rams
Two weeks ago the NFC West lead was tied. After both the Rams (7-4) and the Cardinals (6-5) lost last week, the division lead went back to Seattle. Both teams may qualify for the postseason anyway, but division bragging rights adds spice to this game. Arizona has lost three of its last four games, and there has been some speculation that the league’s defenses are figuring out QB Kyler Murray. If Murray wants to quiet that talk, a win against DT Aaron Donald and the Rams would help.

*New England Patriots at Los Angeles Chargers, 4:25 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Even
In a fairly ugly game at home, the Patriots (5-6) got 84 yds passing (and two interceptions) from Cam Newton and just 47 yds rushing from Damien Harris, but thanks to some tremendous work from the team’s defense, and to the powerful leg of Nick Folk, New England was able to beat Arizona on Sunday. That gave the Patriots three wins in their past four games, but extending the run to four in five will be tough if the offense has a similarly quiet day, it will not work against the explosive Chargers, who are a bigger threat than their record (3-8).

*Denver Broncos at KC Chiefs, 8:20 p.m., NBC*
Pick: Chiefs
After struggling through a QB-less loss to New Orleans last week, the Broncos (4-7) will have Drew Lock, Blake Bortles and Brett Rypien all available for this game. However, a full QB room did not help the last time they played the Chiefs (10-1) – KC walked away with a 43-16 win in Denver on Oct. 25.

If the Chiefs really want to win by 27 points again, they probably can. But the Chiefs have been playing close to the level of their opponents, winning their last 3 games by an average of only 3 points. With the Raiders belly-flopping against Atlanta last week, the Chiefs have a clear path to the divisional championships. It wouldn’t be surprising if the team looks to coast by not only Denver but also Miami and Atlanta. Only the Saints promise a tough match on Dec. 20th.

*Sunday’s Other Games

Giants at Seattle Seahawks, 4:05 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Seahawks
The Giants (4-7) have won three consecutive games, pulling into a tie with Washington at the top of the NFC East. The Giants were clearly building some momentum under QB Daniel Jones. Much of the optimism over those improvements fell away last weekend when Jones injured a hamstring. Colt McCoy did not do much in relief of Jones last week. The Giants will need more than a few FGs to keep up with Seattle.

Seattle fans lovingly mock the Seahawks’ tendency to keep games far closer than they need to be: 8 of the team’s 11 games this season have been decided by a single score. But without QB Jones, the Giants will be hard-pressed to score.

*Philadelphia Eagles at GBay Packers, 4:25 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Packers
Carson Wentz got lucky on a Hail Mary near the end of Monday’s loss to Seattle: The ball was swatted toward the ground in the end zone, but TE Richard Rodgers, who wasn’t even the targeted receiver, made a great play to scoop it up for a TD. That score, along with a 2-point conversion, gave the Eagles (3-7-1) a respectable 6-point loss. Keeping things that close against the Packers (8-3) will be a more difficult task. Smart money won't bet against Aaron Rodgers.

*Indianapolis Colts at Houston Texans, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Colts
With DT DeForest Buckner still on the Covid-19 reserve list, the Colts (7-4) have struggled. The Colts will try to rebound from their loss to the Titans. The Texans are 4-7, and this game got a lot easier when Houston WR Will Fuller V was suspended after testing positive for a performance-enhancing drug.

*Jacksonville Jaguars at Minnesota Vikings, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Vikings
Considering how bad they were in their first six games, the Vikings (5-6) have improved drastically after a horrible start, winning four of their last five games while looking much improved on defense. Vikings WR Justin Jefferson has 918 yds receiving and six TDs. Both numbers could grow substantially in a matchup against Jacksonville. The Jaguars (1-10) have lost nine straight, with an atrocious defense, and they plan to give the journeyman QB Mike Glennon a second straight start.


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Week 13 Predictions * Pt 2 of 2 (all TV times EST) 
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Dec. 3, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Las Vegas Raiders at Jets, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Raiders
The Raiders (6-5) didn’t just lose to Atlanta last weekend, they were humiliated. The team started slowly and got continually worse until time ran out. Though it’s possible that LVegas has been a bit overestimated in recent weeks, this loss shouldn’t erase all the optimism the Raiders built before their loss to the Falcons. But given that star RB Josh Jacobs might miss this game with an ankle injury, the Jets (0-11) might at least cover the spread.

*New Orleans Saints at Atlanta Falcons, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Saints
Because Taysom Hill will start again at QB in place of injured Drew Brees, the Saints (9-2) will stick with a run-heavy approach. But the versatile Hill has demonstrated a strong connection with WR Michael Thomas, and that could help should New Orleans need a big play at some point. At their best - as they were last week - the Falcons (4-7) can certainly give a contender trouble, but it would be a lot easier to believe in them if WR Julio Jones’s availability wasn’t questionable because of a lingering hamstring injury.

*Cincinnati Bengals at Miami Dolphins, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Dolphins
Dolphins QB Tua Tagovailoa returned to practice on Wednesday, so despite the thumb injury he might play Sunday. He is their future, but Ryan Kirkpatrick will do just as well for Miami (7-4) to win. Xavien Howard has been a huge part of Miami’s strong season. The fifth-year cornerback has seven interceptions already this season.

Cincinnati (2-8-1) was dealt a crushing blow two weeks ago with the season-ending injury to the rookie QB Joe Burrow. They kept the score close against the Giants last weekend in a welcome surprise, but most doubt they can do it again vs Miami. Back-up QB Brandon Allen has bounced around after being drafted by the Jaguars in 2016, but this will be only his fourth start under center.

*Detroit Lions at Chicago Bears, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Bears
The Bears (5-6) have lost five straight since their 5-1 start to the season, getting shellacked by the Pack last week. The Lions (4-7), after picking up their fourth loss in five games, fired their HC and GM last weekend. Detroit’s interim coach, Darrell Bevell, has reportedly been pushing for the Lions to pick up their pace, which would be a welcome change from the team’s sluggish approach.

SF Niners DC Robert Saleh is expected to be at the top of a lot of teams’ lists for HC as soon as the season ends. Most analysts expect the Lions to extend an interview. Saleh has made lemonade with very few lemons available, and has family and friends in Michigan. Whether he can be lured to a perpetual loser like the Lions organization is moot. If he leaves, the Niners will once again have big shoes to fill on D. They lost DC Vic Fangio to Denver prior to hiring Saleh, but hopefully Saleh will do better than Fangio as an HC.

*Monday’s Matchups

Buffalo Bills at SF 49ers, 8:15 p.m., ABC and ESPN*
Pick: Bills
The 49ers (5-6) got RB Raheem Mostert and CB Richard Sherman back from injuries last weekend and proceeded to give the Rams their first loss at SoFi Stadium. The return of Richard Sherman provided a huge lift for SF’s defense last week. He will have his hands full with Buffalo’s Stefon Diggs. This matchup is even more difficult because SF must get used to its temporary home at the Cardinals’ State Farm Stadium as host.

The Bills (8-3) are a solid playoff contender that on a good day are effective on both sides of the ball. Buffalo will have an almost full complement of players including QB Josh Allen, while the Niners still lead the NFL in # of players on IR. They would like to be spoilers, but the odds are they can’t pull it off twice in a row. SF may have to be content with sweeping their divisional rivals the Rams in both 2019 and 2020.

*Washington Football Team at Pittsburgh Steelers, 5 p.m.*
Pick: Steelers
The Steelers (11-0) are the first team to get this far into a season without a loss since the 2015 Carolina Panthers. They have had more than their share of hiccups along the way due to the pandemic. At some point, the various changes - and the fact that the Steelers will not get a genuine bye week this season - could catch up to them. That may have been part of the reason for Pittsburgh’s somewhat sluggish 19-14 win over Baltimore at home this past Wednesday, six days later than originally scheduled.

Does that create an opportunity for the Footballers (4-7)? Probably not. Washington has steadily improved, and the team’s offense is clearly stronger with Alex Smith under center. While that might lead to a closer game than oddsmakers are predicting, the result should still be Pittsburgh running its win streak to 12-0.

*Tuesday’s Matchup

Dallas Cowboys at Baltimore Ravens, 8:05 p.m.; Fox, NFL Network, Prime Video*
Pick: Ravens
There are so many unknowns in this game for the Ravens (6-5). The multiple changes in scheduling their Steelers game were draining on both teams. Will QB Lamar Jackson return? What about RBs Mark Ingram and J.K. Dobbins? How serious are the offensive problems that the team was displaying even before the coronavirus depleted its roster? Playing at home will certainly help, and the Cowboys (3-8) are not the toughest opponent. Baltimore’s roster uncertainty should make this a tossup, but from what we have seen of both teams, even the depleted Ravens roster that lost to Pittsburgh would be able to beat Dallas handily.

It has been a difficult season for Dallas, but perhaps the novelty of playing on a Tuesday can bring out the best in Andy Dalton and the rest of the Cowboys. The Ravens-Steelers bouncing game pushed this game off as well. So the Cowboys now have basically a second full bye week as they’ll be going 12 days in between contests. Dallas, like other teams during this season, have had their schedule turned upside down due to another team’s inadequate approach to the safety regulations. Baltimore traced their outbreak to a strength and conditioning coach who didn’t report his symptoms and was maskless in the facility.


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## Lethe200

Wow, it must be painful to be a Jets fan this year!

*The Jets found a new way to lose*
NY Times 06Dec2020 by Benjamin Hoffman

You don’t get to 0-16 by making good decisions. After a fairly thrilling back-and-forth swing in a game that was expected to be a blowout victory for Las Vegas, the Jets appeared to have the game won. They were leading the Raiders by 28-24 with just 19 seconds remaining and, thanks to that 4-point lead, Las Vegas would need a 46-yard touchdown to win. There has rarely been a more obvious situation for an extreme prevent defense, but the Jets haven’t gone winless this far without a fair amount of questionable decisions.

With Las Vegas throwing deep, the Jets put only three players in coverage — with one defender inexplicably left as a spy in case quarterback Derek Carr tried to run. Cornerback Lamar Jackson tried to stick with rookie wide receiver Henry Ruggs III in man coverage, got beaten badly with a double move, and let the outrageously fast Ruggs run right past him for what ended up being a 46-yard touchdown pass and a 31-28 win for the Raiders.

The Jets became just the 12th team to start a season 0-12 and are well on their way to joining the 1960 Dallas Cowboys (0-11-1), the 1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (0-14), the 2008 Detroit Lions (0-16) and the 2017 Cleveland Browns (0-16) as the only N.F.L. teams since 1944 to go winless for an entire season not shortened by a strike. To avoid that fate, the Jets will need a win against one of four fairly good teams: the Seahawks, the Rams, the Browns and the Patriots.


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## jerry old

Boy, those are some ugly teams.


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## Irwin

The Broncos are currently leading against KC! I have a feeling, that's not going to last much longer.


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## Don M.

Irwin said:


> The Broncos are currently leading against KC! I have a feeling, that's not going to last much longer.


The Chiefs "squeaked" past Denver, but just barely.  Mahomes couldn't seem to get on track, and make his normal spectacular passes....he seemed to be in a bit of a slump.  Hopefully, he will get back on track during the playoffs.


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## Lethe200

Vic Fangio, now HC of Denver, was a superstar DC with the Niners when Jim Harbaugh was HC. He was really stuffing the run again KC last night. Constant pressure on Mahomes took away those time-consuming outside pass plays to the WR and TE. 

But you just can't keep the KC offense bottled up forever. They score fast, more often than I've seen any other team do consistently.

Speaking of time to throw, did anyone watch the Bears/Packers game in Week 12? TV did a replay of Rodgers dancing around in the pocket, just before he threw for a TD. He had a full *6.4 seconds* before he threw the ball. You can't stop any QB if you're going to give him that much time to throw, LOL!


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## jerry old

Your mention of v. Fangio reminded me of  Ferragamo, v. the huge QB of Rams I think he was that 6' 4"  220 pounder*-big for his day*.
Yep, the press felt he was big enough to shake off the Steelers defensive lineman 
Ha, the Steel Curtain DL ate him up.

A Rodgers-6.4 seconds, that is enough time for Rodgers to eat a sandwich.
(Lets be clear, The Evil AAron Rodgers. who spanks Dallas in playoff games)

Looks like SF is on a slide, will they recover in time to  whack the Bills tonight? 
Should, but i wouldn't bet money.

Ravens with their rock'um, sock'um defensive will bring more tears to the Cowboys on Tuesday night


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## jerry old

Direct TV is in a squabble with ABC, last nights game of SF and Bills was not not televised-nor any other ABC programs, thanks ABC and Direct TV

Former Cowboy coach, Jimmy Johnson says current Cowboy coach should not be fired due to injuries of QB and the total
the inability of Cowboys to field an offensive line and defensive backfield.  
If anyone is to be fired, it should be the owner: Jerry Jones.

Raven's Lamar Jackson will play tonight, soooooo-if you want to see a laughed, tune in.
I have a bowl of rotten tomatoes ready.
Ravens should score in 40's, Cowboys 17.


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## JustBonee

Now we have  'Tuesday Nite   Football'   .....  I missed that game  @jerry old
Your TV must look like a mess with those tomatoes all over it!


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## oldman

I watched the Steelers-Skins game on Tuesday night. Steelers couldn't hold their lead. First loss of the season for the Steelers.


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## jerry old

oldman said:


> I watched the Steelers-Skins game on Tuesday night. Steelers couldn't hold their lead. First loss of the season for the Steelers.


Whoa, the Steelers lost a game-i didn't know that.


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## Irwin

Steelers lost to a team that doesn't even have a name!


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## Don M.

Irwin said:


> Steelers lost to a team that doesn't even have a name!


Yeah, but at least now the Washington team is "politically correct".


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## Irwin

Don M. said:


> Yeah, but at least now the Washington team is "politically correct".


They could call them the Potomacs.


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## Lethe200

Excerpts from NY Times Sports:

*Steelers’ Perfect Season Comes to an End With Loss to Washington*
Pittsburgh was the N.F.L.’s final unbeaten team at 11-0 before losing at home to a sub-.500 team. On Monday 12/07, in a game that was pushed back as a result of the schedule changes in Week 12, the Steelers blew a 14-point lead they built in the first half and were unable to stop Washington’s offense, which scored four times in the second half before the defense intercepted Roethlisberger to seal the win.

After engineering perhaps the biggest upset of the season, Washington is now 5-7 and remains in a tie for first place in the N.F.C. East after Week 13. The Giants, who have the same record, beat the Seattle Seahawks on Sunday, the first time a team from the N.F.C. East beat an opponent with a winning record this season.

Washington has now won three consecutive games, an improbable turnaround for a team that began the season 1-5. Coach Ron Rivera replaced quarterbacks Dwayne Haskins and Kyle Allen, who each made four starts, in favor of Alex Smith, who was making a comeback of his own after undergoing 17 surgeries to repair a leg injury he sustained in 2018. Smith, 36, threw for 296 yards and a touchdown, overcoming the loss of rookie running back Antonio Gibson, who left the game early with a toe injury. Tight end Logan Thomas, wide receiver Cam Sims and running back J.D. McKissic hauled in 24 of Smith’s 31 pass completions.

&&&

*Thursday’s Matchup: Rams 24, Patriots 3*
While New England had been on a bit of a roll, the idea of the Patriots beating the Rams in Inglewood seemed a little outlandish. Our pick of Rams -5 paid off when New England’s offense failed to make the trip west. The Patriots (6-7) managed just 220 yards of total offense, with Cam Newton completing 9 of 16 passes for 119 yards. New England’s Cam Newton was replaced by Jarrett Stidham in the fourth quarter.

Outside of running back Cam Akers (171 yards rushing), the Rams (9-4) were not all that impressive offensively, but the team’s defense more than made up for that with six sacks, 10 quarterback hits and a 79-yard pick-6 from linebacker Kenny Young.

&&&

*This Eagles’ No-Win Quarterback Predicament Isn’t Like the Last One*
Jalen Hurts, a rookie, will be the Week 14 starter over Carson Wentz, a franchise quarterback, but Philadelphia is in no way suited for a rebuild.

Wentz is suffering through a catastrophic 2020 season. He leads the N.F.L. with 15 interceptions and has endured 50 sacks, 10 more than any other quarterback. While a revolving door cast of receivers and offensive linemen deserves a share of the blame, those players have nothing to do with the fact that Wentz’s throwing mechanics, accuracy, timing and decision-making have gone haywire. He is hesitant to throw to wide-open receivers, blunders into sacks while stumbling around the pocket and appears almost morally opposed to checking down for a safe 4-yard toss when he can force a 40-yard interception instead.

Moving on from Wentz, if the Eagles choose to do so, will not be as simple as reprinting the depth charts. Wentz’s contract guarantees him huge sums in staggered stages, insulating him from any hasty organizational decisions. Wentz will cost the Eagles almost $35 million in cap space to keep in 2021, but over $59 million to cut. So even if Hurts assumes the job and plays like Patrick Mahomes for the next month, Wentz will almost certainly remain on the 2021 roster.

Furthermore, the Eagles project to be $66 million over next year’s salary cap because of the backloaded contracts of many veteran Super Bowl holdovers. Any attempt at a cap purge could leave the Eagles with Hurts leading a lineup of minimum wage earners while Wentz eats a prohibitive chunk of the payroll to clap politely from the bench. The Eagles are in no financial position to begin rebuilding around a rookie quarterback, which circles back to the question of why they drafted one.

The Eagles’ no-win quarterback predicament reflects poorly upon Pederson, who supervised Wentz’s backslide into ineptitude, and upon General Manager Howie Roseman, who negotiated Wentz’s contract, drafted Hurts and strained the limits of team economics to keep much of the Super Bowl nucleus intact. Roseman has added almost no top-tier offensive talent in the last three seasons, and Pederson’s game plans have stagnated, making Wentz as much a symptom of the Eagles’ deeper problems as the cause.


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## Lethe200

Sorry to be so late with this - I've been putting Xmas decorations up!

*NFL Week 14 Predictions * Pt 1 of 2 (all TV times EST)
The Dolphins face their biggest test yet in the Chiefs and the Steelers, after an 11-0 start, are trying to avoid a losing streak.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Dec. 10, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Sunday’s Best Games

KC Chiefs at Miami Dolphins, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Chiefs
It is nice to be the Chiefs (11-1). KC let Denver stay uncomfortably close for much of last week’s game and then simply pushed the “win now” button, got a TD pass from Patrick Mahomes to Travis Kelce, a 48-yard field goal from Harrison Butker and a win-sealing interception from Tyrann Mathieu. That it looked so easy made the rest of the game remarkably frustrating in retrospect.

The Dolphins (8-4) are not on the Chiefs’ level, but they are also not a team to trifle with. Miami’s defense can make an opponent pay for its mistakes - CB Xavien Howard is leading the NFL in interceptions (eight) and passes defended (16) - and its offense is adept at chewing up clock and doing enough to score.

The script for this game could mirror KC’s previous game. Miami could easily stay in it for much of the game, but when the Chiefs need to score, Mahomes will make that happen. The Dolphins deserve respect, but being only 7-point underdogs to the Chiefs is its own version of respect.

*Pittsburgh Steelers at Buffalo Bills, 8:20 p.m., NBC*
Pick: Bills
Earlier this week, people were openly wondering if the Steelers (11-1) could go undefeated. One not entirely shocking loss to Washington later, and Pittsburgh is an underdog against the Bills (9-3). The reasons, for the loss and the betting line, are defensive injuries, weakening the team’s biggest strength, and a slumping offense.

Buffalo is coming off a big win over SF, looking like a good bet to win the AFC East and making people talk about QB Josh Allen as an emerging superstar. Unless Pittsburgh turns it around on both sides of the ball, it may go from 11 consecutive wins to two straight losses.

*Minnesota Vikings at TBay Buccaneers, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Buccaneers
The Buccaneers (7-5) have disappointed a bit this season. The team was expected to take a leap defensively and, with Tom Brady added to the offense, even out the kinks from the Jameis Winston era. The team has been inconsistent, rather than bad, but has lost back-to-back games by 27-24. Its surprising defensive woes may continue against the Vikings (6-6), who have plenty of their own flaws, but no problems scoring.

While not a must-win game for TBay, it would take pressure off the Buccaneers in their hunt for an NFC wild card to win this one at home.

*Indianapolis Colts at Las Vegas Raiders, 4:05 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Colts
The Colts (8-4) got away with one last week, taking advantage of a fumbled snap to hold on for a close win over Houston. That was nothing compared with the Raiders (7-5), who had a win gifted to them by the Jets in the closing seconds of the game. But wins are wins, and with both of these teams fighting for playoff spots, they were lucky to get them.

Raiders star RB Josh Jacobs is out with an injured foot, and Indianapolis is simply farther along in its development. The Colts should win on the road.

*Sunday’s Other Games

Arizona Cardinals at Giants, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Cardinals
The Cardinals have struggled recently, but Kyler Murray has thrown for 22 TDs and rushed for 10. Fresh off a game in which they manhandled the favored Seahawks on both sides of the ball, the Giants (5-7) are underdogs at home to the Cardinals (6-6), a team that isn’t as good as the Seahawks. The skepticism is likely a result of the uncertain status of Giants QB Daniel Jones. Coach Joe Judge has said there is a chance Jones will play, but he also said that last week. Colt McCoy deserves some credit for keeping the win streak going, but the Giants’ chances in this game come down to Jones’s availability. If he plays - and is close to 100 percent - this pick would most likely be reversed.

*Washington Football Team at SF 49ers, 4:25 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Washington
Both of these teams are 5-7, but they are going in different directions. The Footballers have been steadily improving on both sides of the ball, and just pulled off a shocking upset of Pittsburgh. The 49ers have mostly survived in a season destroyed by injuries, but are coming off a huge letdown loss against Buffalo in which the backup QB Nick Mullens’s flaws were on open display. With the 49ers relocated to Arizona due a lockdown in their home county, Washington has a good chance to keep winning.

*GBay Packers at Detroit Lions, 4:25 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Packers
The Lions (5-7) showed serious offensive improvement in the first game under their interim coach, Darrell Bevell, with the caveat that their come-from-behind victory came against the reeling Bears. Detroit may find offensive success, but probably not enough as its overmatched defense tries to slow down the electric Packers (9-3), who are led by Aaron Rodgers, Aaron Jones and Davante Adams. There is always the chance that a heavily favored team will take the opportunity to slow things down and accept a smaller win, but the Packers have not been taking any games off offensively, and Rodgers is having one of the best seasons of his career - which is high praise for a two-time winner of the MVP Award.

*New Orleans Saints at Philadelphia Eagles, 4:25 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Saints
Superstar RB Alvin Kamara has just three catches for 7 yds over his last three games, but the Saints (10-2) seem content with Taysom Hill under center until Brees gets to 100 percent. That’s understandable because last week’s win over Atlanta clinched a playoff spot for New Orleans, and this week’s game against the Eagles (3-8-1) doesn’t seem like much of a challenge. Trey Hendrickson of the Saints has 10.5 sacks this season. He could add to that total against Philadelphia’s patchwork offensive line. The Saints have a 66 percent chance of securing the NFC’s first-round bye, but they will need Brees back for a Week 15 game against KC.


----------



## Lethe200

*NFL Week 14 Predictions * Pt 2 of 2 (all TV times EST)
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Dec. 10, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Tennessee Titans at Jacksonville Jaguars, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Titans
The Titans (8-4) are much better than the Jaguars (1-11). That being said, Jacksonville can hold its head up high after giving Minnesota a fight last week, and will come into this game hoping to slow RB Derrick Henry. That might just lead to them getting beaten on a few deep passes, but recent history suggests the Jaguars have a decent chance of covering the spread even if they have almost no chance of winning.

*Jets at Seattle Seahawks, 4:05 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Seahawks
How many times has a prominent NFL coach been fired over one play? That’s what happened last week when Gregg Williams, the defensive coordinator for the Jets (0-12), dialed up a cover-zero play in the game’s final seconds when his team just needed to keep Las Vegas out of the end zone from 46 yds out. The Jets sent seven pass rushers, inexplicably left a spy behind the line of scrimmage in case Derek Carr decided to scramble for a 46-yard TD - pause for emphasis - and had just three defensive backs in coverage. Carr, who has one of the quickest releases and strongest arms in the NFL, didn’t get sacked – nor does he run very often, being a classic pocket passer. Henry Ruggs III had a TD before Carr even released the ball.

A conspiracy theorist might suggest that Williams or Coach Adam Gase, or both, were trying to lock in the No. 1 pick in the draft, but that falls apart when you consider it was exactly the type of galaxy brain decision the overly aggressive Williams is known for. His firing the next day seemed to confirm it was simply a brutal call, and nothing more than that.

So now the Jets have four games to eke out a win in hopes of avoiding 0-16. Their quest begins on the road in Seattle as two-TD underdogs against the Seahawks (8-4). Seattle is struggling too much to buy in on such a large point spread, but the Seahawks have plenty of playoff-related motivation to win, so there shouldn’t be any surprises.

*Denver Broncos at Carolina Panthers, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Panthers
A lot of teams pack things in when their record goes sideways, but the Broncos (4-8) and the Panthers (4-8) have kept fighting all season, making their opponents work hard to beat them. Imagining Denver’s defense if linebacker Von Miller were healthy, or Carolina’s offense with fewer injuries, makes it easy to be enthusiastic about both teams heading into next season. For now, they are both a little too flawed to matter, but there is every reason to believe a game between them should be entertaining.

*Atlanta Falcons at Los Angeles Chargers, 4:25 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Falcons
This game should have a playground feel to it, as both offenses are more than capable of airing the ball out, and neither defense puts up much resistance. Justin Herbert, a rookie, has the Chargers (3-9) ranked fourth in the NFL in passing. The veteran Matt Ryan has the Falcons (4-8) ranked seventh in spite of some injuries to his receivers this season. It is a safe bet that a group of talented pass-catchers that includes LAC’s Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and Atlanta’s Julio Jones and Calvin Ridley will produce several highlight-reel-worthy plays. While LAC could end up struggling for a second consecutive week should left tackle Sam Tevi be out, this could easily come down to which team has the ball last.

*Houston Texans at Chicago Bears, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Texans
It had seemed like WR Will Fuller V’s suspension would devastate Houston’s offense, but the Texans (4-8) were a fumbled snap away from pulling off a huge upset of the Colts last week thanks in large part to the emergence of Keke Coutee, who put up a career-best 141 yds receiving after coming into the day with only 38 yds for the season. Houston showed enough to be favored on the road against a team with a superior record, though that probably has more to do with Chicago’s six-game losing streak than it does with the Texans’ offense.

Of the 242 teams to start a season 5-1 from 1920 to 2019, only four ended up with a losing record: the 1926 Chicago Cardinals (5-6-1), the 1986 Atlanta Falcons (7-8-1), the 1995 St. Louis Rams (7-9) and the 2008 Buffalo Bills (7-9). The Bears (5-7) are well on their way to setting a new mark for futility in that group of fast-starting teams.

*Dallas Cowboys at Cincinnati Bengals, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Cowboys
Cincinnati has held its opponent to 20 or fewer points in each of the last three games, which is a fairly shocking turnaround for a defense that struggled greatly earlier in the season. Whether that is improvement or indifference from opponents who know they will beat the Bengals (2-9-1), regardless, is hard to say, but with QB Joe Burrow out for the season and Cincinnati one of four teams that is already eliminated from playoff contention, there is no real incentive to win. The Cowboys (3-9), meanwhile, have only a 2 percent chance of making the playoffs, according to The Upshot, but have enough offense to give that recently improved Bengals defense a workout.

*Monday’s Matchup

Baltimore Ravens at Cleveland Browns, 8:15 p.m., ESPN*
Pick: Ravens
It should be a chilly night in Cleveland, and if a recent stretch of home games for the Browns (9-3) was any indication, the weather will lead to a far more conservative approach than the one the team employed to run up 38 first-half points against Tennessee last week. Since Lamar Jackson of the Ravens (7-5) has thrown for fewer than 200 yds in seven of his last nine games, this one should be decided on the ground. In a surprise compared with recent seasons, that would, at least on paper, favor Cleveland on both sides of the ball. But there is a nagging feeling that Baltimore is a quality team that has underperformed while the Browns have simply benefited from a light schedule. This game could help sort out which is true.


----------



## jerry old

Lethe200 on the Eagle's financial woe regarding Carson Wentz;s salary- Looks like another front office blunder.


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## Lethe200

jerry old said:


> Lethe200 on the Eagle's financial woe regarding Carson Wentz;s salary- Looks like another front office blunder.


Yes, until I was clipping the article for this forum, I wasn't aware what a terrible job the Eagles' front office did on negotiating that contract. One of the worst I've ever read about.


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 14 of the NFL Season*
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman, Dec. 13, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*The NFC East is far from decided.* The Giants’ four-game win streak came to a screeching halt with a 26-7 loss to the Arizona Cardinals. That result, combined with wins by Washington, Philadelphia and Dallas, kept things interesting in the NFC East, which is making up for its lack of quality by having all four teams in the division race with three games remaining. The Footballers must depend on the health of QB Alex Smith, who reinjured the leg that kept him out for nearly two years. The severity of Smith’s injury was not immediately announced.

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games* *Except when it takes more.

*Colts 44, Raiders 27.* The Raiders are fading, their playoff hopes vanished. QB Derek Carr and WR Darren Waller kept them close until halfway through Q3, when the Colts wore down the Raiders’ suspect defense with Philip Rivers’s passing and Jonathan Taylor’s career-high 150 yds rushing (and two TDs). The Raiders (7-6) hurt themselves with penalties that negated several excellent long-yardage gains. Turnovers once again cost LVegas valuable points, as the Colts (9-4) easily moved the ball up and down the field.

*Chiefs 33, Dolphins 27.* Coming in, Patrick Mahomes appeared locked in for the 2020 MVP Award, having been intercepted just twice this year. Then the Chiefs fell behind 10-0 in Q2, and it looked like it might be a long day for them. But thanks to TD drives of 75 and 74 yds, the Chiefs led at halftime and never trailed again. Miami’s opportunistic defense had Mahomes flustered for much of the day, picking him off three times in 34 attempts. On top of that, Miami made Mahomes look foolish on a rambling play in which he repeatedly retreated before being sacked for a 30-yard loss.

The Dolphins picked up a fourth takeaway on a fumble by Mecole Hardman. And Tua Tagovailoa had the first 300-yard passing game of his career. Despite all that, Miami lost. And it didn’t feel that close.

Mahomes ended up throwing for 393 yds and KC improved to 12-1. The Chiefs clinched the AFC West and may secure the AFC’s only first-round bye in the playoffs. Miami dropped to 8-5, but is still a strong contender for a wild-card spot.

*Titans 31, Jaguars 10.* Jacksonville has lost 12 consecutive games, one short of the franchise record. A switch at QB to Gardner Minshew in the second half led to a quick TD, but that wasn’t enough to make this game competitive. Jacksonville Coach Doug Marrone stacked the box for much of the game, but was left at a loss when asked if there was more his team could have done to slow down the Titans superstar. “I don’t think we could get any more people up there,” Marrone said.

Derrick Henry has an NFL-record four career games with 200+ rushing yds and two or more TDs. Two of those games were against Jacksonville. Sunday he rushed for 215 yds. This breaks a tie he held with Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and LaDainian Tomlinson, each of whom is in the Hall of Fame. Henry is leading the NFL with 1,532 yds rushing this season - just 8 short of the total he led the NFL with last year - and he has run for 100 or more yds in his last nine road games, one short of Sanders’s NFL record.

*Buccaneers 26, Vikings 14.* Minnesota had the game’s leading passer, leading rusher and leading receiver – and lost. TBay had the ball for less than 21 of the game’s 60 minutes, walking away with a fairly easy victory thanks to mistakes forced by the team’s terrific pass rush. TBay’s defense produced six sacks and 12 QB hits, giving Minnesota’s Kirk Cousins almost no time to work.

Minnesota’s kicker Dan Bailey was having a terrific season before a brutal two-game stretch in which he has now missed four FG attempts and three extra points. With Arizona and Chicago winning, Minnesota (6-7) complicated its wild-card hopes. TBay, on the other hand, improved to 8-5, and is on its way to its first playoff appearance since 2007.

*Packers 31, Lions 24.* Aaron Rodgers had 290 yds passing, three TDs and only seven incompletions - a typical day for him at this point - and GBay clinched the NFC North. GBay’s Davante Adams had seven catches for 115 yds and a TD on Sunday. The star WR has 14 TDs this season. The Packers will close their season with winnable games against Carolina, Tennessee (in GBay) and Chicago, and may sneak into a first-round bye.

Of great concern for Detroit was an injury sustained by QB Matthew Stafford in which he took a hard hit by GBay’s Kenny Clark at the end of a run. Xrays on his ribs were negative, but he reportedly is in “a lot of pain”.

*Bills 26, Steelers 15.* Only a week ago the Steelers (11-2) were imperfect but unbeaten. Now they’ve lost two straight, and have fallen behind KC in the race for the top seed in the playoffs. Defensive injuries left the Steelers looking lost in the second half trying to slow down Bills QB Josh Allen and receiver Stefon Diggs.

As the NFL has evolved, the best teams are those with dynamic passing offenses and defenses that can slow down the aerial game just enough. Sitting on Ben Roethlisberger’s short throws and blitzing him off the edge, the Bills hounded him into his worst game of the season. Pittsburgh will try to regroup against Cincinnati next Monday night,

Buffalo is soaring as the playoffs draw near. Diggs had 10 catches for 130 yds and a TD. He is the first player this season to reach 100 receptions. With a two-game lead over Miami, the Bills (10-3), who have the franchise’s best record through 13 games since 1991, could clinch their first AFC East title in 25 years next week.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 14 of the NFL Season *Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman, Dec. 13, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Seahawks 40, Jets 3.* The Seahawks (9-4) rebounded from a loss to the Giants last week, while the Jets’ losing streak reached a franchise record 13 games. Russell Wilson threw for four TDs in three quarters, then took the entire Q4 off. He already has a career-high 36 TDs for the season. He has now had five games this year with at least 4 TDs. Helpfully, Jamal Adams has just set the NFL’s single-season record for sacks by a DB in only nine games since the trade brought him to the Seahawks.

The highlight of the game for the Jets was a forced throw by Wilson in the first half that the Jets’ Marcus Maye caught for a terrific juggling interception. Even when the Jets had chances to score, kicker Sergio Castillo struggled. After converting a 45-yard attempt on the Jets’ opening drive, Castillo missed attempts of 37, 41 and 43 yds in the first half. QB Sam Darnold was 14 of 26 for 132 yds.

Oddly, the Jets extended their streak of scoring on their opening drive to seven straight games, the longest active streak in the NFL and the longest in franchise history.

*Eagles 24, Saints 21*. The Saints’ Taysom Hill passed for a career-high 291 yds, but also threw an interception and lost a fumble. The loss broke a streak of eight consecutive wins by New Orleans backup QBs.

In five seasons under Coach Doug Pederson, the Eagles are 11-3 in games not started by Carson Wentz (including the playoffs) but only 35-33-1 with Wentz starting. Philadelphia’s rookie QB Jalen Hurts threw for 167 yds and a TD in the win while rushing for 106 yds. Hurts showed enough skill as a passer to keep the Saints’ defense honest. His 15-yard TD pass to Alshon Jeffery in Q1 was a thing of beauty. Miles Sanders also rushed for 115 yds and two TDs. Hurts carried 18 times, joining Baltimore’s Lamar Jackson as the only QBs to rush for 100 or more yds in their first NFL start.

*Cardinals 26, Giants 7.* The Giants entered Sunday’s game riding high on a four-game win streak. They left with a battered QB and diminished playoff chances. Arizona must love playing the Giants; in their last two games AZ has sacked NYG QBs 15 times. The Cardinals should petition the NFL to move them to the NFC East to give the hyper-competitive NFC West a break.

Arizona’s Haason Reddick became the 16th player to record five or more sacks in a game (the statistic became official in 1982), leading an all-out assault in which the Cardinals produced eight sacks, five fumbles and 11 QB hits. The ever-inventive QB Kyler Murray thwarted the Giants’ pass rush with his agility and knack for extending plays, After losing their three previous games, the Cardinals (7-6) earned a valuable win to keep alive their meager postseason chances.

The Giants (5-8) managed just 10 first downs and 159 total yds. QB Daniel Jones, returning from a hamstring injury, was sacked six times, completed only 11 passes and left the game in Q4 with a pronounced limp. The Giants host the Browns (9-4) next, while Arizona will host the Eagles.

*Chargers 20, Falcons 17.* It seemed the Chargers were throwing away yet another potential win when Justin Herbert was intercepted with less than a minute remaining. But LAC’s Michael Davis stole momentum right back by intercepting a Matt Ryan pass. Herbert got his team close enough for Michael Badgley to win the game with a 43-yard FG as time expired. The Chargers (4-9) will play the Raiders next in a Thursday night match-up of good offenses vs bad defenses. The Falcons dropped to 4-9, with their last 3 games a nightmare line-up of Tampa Bay twice and the KC Chiefs.

*Footballers 23, 49ers 15.* A lot of things went wrong for Washington (6-7) in this game, but the rookie defensive end Chase Young put on a show with six tackles, a sack, two passes defended, two QB hits and a 47-yard fumble recovery for a TD. But no matter how hard Washington tried to give the game away, the Niners kept handing it back to them. There has been plenty of criticism of injured QB Jimmy Garoppolo, but watching back-up Nick Mullens throw interceptions straight into the opposing team’s defenders game after game, will make it easy for Niner fans to welcome Jimmy G back on the field, even if his injuries don’t heal till 2021.

*Bears 36, Texans 7. *The Bears can still make the playoffs - yes, the Chicago Bears. After a 5-1 start, Chicago endured six consecutive losses. But the Bears dominated Houston on Sunday. Several unlikely things happened. Among them: Mitchell Trubisky outplayed Houston’s Deshaun Watson, completing 24 of 33 passes for 267 yds and three TDs. RB David Montgomery had his most productive game in nearly a year, rumbling for 113 yds (with 80 of them on one electrifying run). Then the Bears’ defense sacked Watson seven times, once for a safety. Chicago had more rushing and passing yds, and fewer turnovers, than the Texans (4-9). The win kept the Bears alive in the race for the NFC’s third wild card.

*Cowboys 30, Bengals 7.* In his return to Cincinnati, Dallas’ (4-9) Andy Dalton was hardly perfect, but he did enough to beat the lowly Bengals (2-10), tossing two TD passes without committing a turnover. Aldon Smith, Cowboys' DE who missed four seasons because of off-field issues, contributed to the scoring with his first career TD, returning a fumble 78 yds.

*Broncos 32, Panthers 27.* Denver’s Drew Lock says he wants to let the ball fly on every play, but has learned a conservative approach from John Elway, the Broncos’ president. “He has preached to me just doing your job and not trying to force anything,” Lock said. “Once you force it, those are the ones you want back.” The approach worked well Sunday, with Lock lulling Carolina into a false sense of security and then beating them with a pair of long TDs to rookie WR K.J. Hamler. Lock finished the day with a career-high four passing TDs. Diontae Spencer helped by returning a punt 83 yds for a score and the Broncos’ defense (5-8) held strong against Carolina’s (4-9) comeback attempt.

*Rams 24, Patriots 3. *The Thurs 12/10 game was all LAR. Ailing Cam Newton was benched in Q3 but nothing changed. LAR’s pass rush was relentless against Newton and Jarrett Stidham, totaling six sacks. LAR's RB Cam Akers rushed 29 times for a career-high 171 yards. Even QB Jared Goff’s mediocre numbers didn’t hurt the Rams as they went to 9-4 to lead Seattle by tiebreaker in the NFC West


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## Lethe200

*NFL Week 15 Predictions * Pt 1 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Dec. 17, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_
A Thursday matchup between teams that can stretch the field. A pair of entertaining games on Saturday. A potential Super Bowl preview on Sunday.

*Sunday’s Best Games
KC Chiefs at New Orleans Saints, 4:25 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Chiefs
New Orleans should be extremely happy with the job Taysom Hill has done filling in for the injured Drew Brees, but last week’s loss to Philadelphia - which knocked New Orleans out of the top spot in the NFC playoff seedings - illustrated how much the team needs Brees back if it wants to compete for a championship.

The Saints (10-3) are hopeful that Brees, who hasn’t played since Week 10, can make his triumphant return this week so he can lead them in a potential Super Bowl preview against the Chiefs (12-1). The Upshot gives the Chiefs a 23 percent chance of repeating as champions, while the Saints, at 16 percent, are considered the most likely winner out of the NFC

At their best, both teams have explosive offenses and opportunistic defenses. If the Chiefs have a fatal flaw, it is their boredom, but a road game against a top competitor should keep their attention.

So where does that leave this game? It depends on Brees’s health. If he plays, and is close to 100 percent, you have to give the Saints a decent chance of an upset. Anything less than that, and a motivated Chiefs team could romp. 

*Seattle Seahawks at Washington Football Team, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Seahawks
If you were to go back to Week 6 and explain to the 5-0 Seahawks and the 1-5 Footballers that they’d be meeting in Week 15 with Washington (62 percent) having a better chance of winning its division than Seattle (39 percent), few would believe you. But the Seahawks (9-4) have leveled out, and were caught from behind by the Rams in the NFC West, while the Footballers (6-7) have improved by leaps and bounds since installing Alex Smith at QB and are alone in first atop the NFC East.

Seattle has a 99 percent chance of making the playoffs, regardless of whether it wins the division, and on the Seahawks’ best days - such as last Sunday, when they throttled the Jets - it’s easy to envision them as Super Bowl contenders. But Washington’s defense is on the way up, and if Smith is able to play through a calf injury, he could keep things close or even engineer an upset. 

*TBay Buccaneers at Atlanta Falcons, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Buccaneers
TBay (8-5) showed a convincing win over Minnesota last week. The Bucs finished with six sacks and 12 quarterback hits. Kirk Cousins was under constant pressure, and although the Vikings moved the ball well, they couldn’t punch it into the end zone. A similar script could play out against the Falcons (4-9), who are a threat in any game in which Julio Jones is active but are prone to problems against TBay’s pass rush because of QB Matt Ryan’s lack of mobility.

*Cleveland Browns at Giants, 8:20 p.m., NBC*
Pick: Browns
Even with last week’s heartbreaking loss to Baltimore, the Browns (9-4) have matched the franchise’s best 13-game start since 1994, when then-Coach Bill Belichick led them to an 11-5 record and a trip to the divisional round of the playoffs. On the strength of its record, Cleveland has an 84 percent chance of making the playoffs for the first time since 2007. While the Giants (5-8) have made a remarkable turnaround from earlier this season, and have a 25 percent chance of winning the NFC East, they are overmatched in this one.

*Thursday’s Matchup

LA Chargers at LVegas Raiders, 8:20 p.m., Fox, NFL Network and Amazon Prime* Video
Pick: Raiders
The Raiders (7-6) somehow still have a 20 percent chance of getting a wild-card spot despite having lost three of their last four games. Now they face the Chargers (4-9), who have a far worse record but a similar ability to alternate between thrilling and terrible.

Both teams are loaded on offense, and while neither has had a good season defensively, they both feature defensive players who can make game-changing plays, like Joey Bosa of the Chargers and Maxx Crosby of the Raiders.

The Chargers’ offense hasn’t led them to a lot of wins so far, but Justin Herbert and Keenan Allen never seem more than a play away from scoring a TD. If the Chargers can build on last week’s solid ending, they will take a huge step in their rebuilding process.

*Saturday’s Matchups
Carolina Panthers at GBay Packers, 8:15 p.m., NFL Network*
Pick: Packers
Last week Carolina’s defense was shredded by Denver’s Drew Lock, so imagine the pain Aaron Rodgers and the Packers (10-3) could inflict on the Panthers (4-9) if they were to go all-out. After New Orleans’s loss last week, GBay is in the driver’s seat for a first-round bye. GBay’s Davante Adams is leading the NFL in receiving TDs and receiving yds per game. With three regular-season games remaining, he is on a pace for career highs in every major receiving category.

It’s possible the Packers are looking ahead to a tougher matchup in Week 16 against Tennessee, but Rodgers has been locked in and may trail only Patrick Mahomes in the race for league MVP.

*Buffalo Bills at Denver Broncos, 4:30 p.m., NFL Network*
Pick: Bills
It’s hard to know how the Broncos (5-8) will play from week to week, but a road game in Denver is tough for any opponent, even one as good as the Bills (10-3). Add that the Bills can relax a little considering their 98 percent chance of winning the AFC East (but just a 1 percent chance at a first-round bye), and this game could be closer than oddsmakers are predicting.


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## Lethe200

*NFL Week 15 Predictions * Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Dec. 17, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Sunday’s Other Games

Jacksonville Jaguars at Baltimore Ravens, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Ravens
Lamar Jackson engineered one of the wildest wins in recent NFL history, completing a 44-yard TD to Marquise Brown on fourth-and-5 with less than two minutes left in last week's game, then watching Cleveland tie the score, and then taking the Ravens far enough for Justin Tucker to kick a game-winning, 55-yard field goal. But the win was a welcome change in from a difficult period for the Ravens (8-5). Jackson finally looked like himself, and the Ravens, with a 74 percent chance of making the playoffs, no longer seemed like a team in peril.

The Jaguars (1-12) are not even close to the Browns. They haven’t won a game since Week 1, and struggle on both sides of the ball. If the Ravens don’t lose focus again, this should be an easy game for them.

*Houston Texans at Indianapolis Colts, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Colts
In most years, this would be a key AFC South matchup, but the Texans (4-9) have been eliminated from playoff contention and the Colts (9-4) have an 82 percent chance of making the playoffs and a 36 percent chance of winning their division. Houston’s Deshaun Watson will be the best player on the field, but the Texans have done a horrible job keeping talent around him. Indianapolis, on the other hand, made crucial personnel moves in the off-season that have taken the team from mediocre to top 10 in offense and defense.

*Detroit Lions at Tennessee Titans, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Titans
There are situations in which the Lions (5-8) could hold their own against the Titans (9-4), but most of them involve locking up Tennessee’s Derrick Henry in a well-guarded room and claiming nobody knows where he is. Barring that unlikely event, Detroit looks overmatched, especially if Matthew Stafford misses the game with the rib injury he sustained last week. Tennessee is in a tough fight with Indianapolis for the AFC South crown, and has a 64 percent chance of holding off the Colts, so the Titans certainly have motivation to keep winning.

*Chicago Bears at Minnesota Vikings, 1 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Vikings
Both teams are on the outside looking in, but the Bears (6-7) and the Vikings (6-7) are still alive, and both have at least a 20 percent chance of a playoff spot despite Chicago’s recent struggles and Minnesota’s rough start. Assuming the Bears’ offensive resurgence last week was more than a blip would probably be generous, but they certainly have looked their best with Mitchell Trubisky at QB. Still, Minnesota should be fine, provided the team gives QB Kirk Cousins more time to work than he had in a loss to TBay. Chicago defense has been hampered by injuries to OLB Khalil Mack, who is questionable for the game.

*New England Patriots at Miami Dolphins, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: Dolphins
The Patriots (6-7) have missed the playoffs just twice since 2001, but even with a recent hot streak they are down to a 4 percent chance at qualifying this year, and that number will drop to zero with a loss to the Dolphins (8-5), who have a 43 percent chance at a wild card. The tables have turned in this rivalry, with New England being the scrappy underdog that could spoil things for the seemingly superior team. Miami’s style of play doesn’t lead to many mistakes, so unless Coach Bill Belichick has something up his sleeve, the Patriots can start making vacation plans for early January.

*Jets at LA Rams, 4:05 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Rams
Sam Darnold feels like the Darkest Timeline version of Jared Goff. Instead of developing under the tutelage of an era-defining offensive genius like Coach Sean McVay, Darnold has been saddled with Coach Adam Gase, and the Jets (0-13) seem to have little chance of avoiding a winless season. The talent imbalance in this game - reflected accurately in the point spread - is extreme, and a win for LAR (9-4) should help the team increase its 60 percent chance of winning the competitive NFC West. A 17-point spread is absurd, but so are the Jets.

*SF 49ers at Dallas Cowboys, 1 p.m., CBS*
Pick: 49ers
When the schedule came out, this was supposed to showcase Jimmy Garoppolo leading the defending NFC champions into Dak Prescott’s house to rekindle a classic rivalry. Injuries have scuttled both QBs’ seasons. Backup SF QB Nick Mullens facing off against Andy Dalton won’t live up to that advanced billing. Technically, neither team has been eliminated from playoff contention but the chances for both are poor. With SF RB Raheem Mostert uncertain to play and WR Deebo Samuel expected to be out, the Cowboys have a decent chance at a second straight win, as both Niners players are key to HC Shanahan’s offense. The Niners have led the NFL in two categories all year long – the number of players on IR and the number of players they have used on the field. Their IR #s are down, but that just means there are only 18 names on it instead of 25.

*Philadelphia Eagles at Arizona Cardinals, 4:05 p.m., Fox*
Pick: Cardinals
Both QBs are products of Oklahoma Coach Lincoln Riley, who will have trouble knowing which one to root for. AZ’s Kyler Murray (7-6) transferred to Oklahoma to play for Riley in 2017 and won the Heisman Trophy in 2018. Philly rookie Jalen Hurts (4-8-1) transferred to Oklahoma to play for Riley in 2019 and was a Heisman finalist. Hurts’ promotion to starting QB over Carson Wentz has set up this matchup between two of Riley’s star pupils. Right now Murray is a more complete player and the Cardinals are a better team. With Arizona’s chance at a wild card around 50 percent, the team should be motivated to win at home.

*Monday’s Matchup

Pittsburgh Steelers at Cincinnati Bengals, 8:15 p.m., ESPN*
Pick: Steelers
Be it injuries, an offensive slump or regression to the mean, the Steelers (11-2) went from 11 straight wins to two consecutive losses. There was a sense, particularly toward the end of the win streak, that Pittsburgh was overrated. The Bengals (2-10-1), who have been eliminated from playoff contention, are likely to bear the brunt of Pittsburgh’s frustration. A blowout win over a bad, injury-riddled team would not do much for the Steelers’ fortunes, but it might help wash away the bad taste in their mouths from the last few weeks.

There should be no surprises in this one, even if the point spread is a bit large for a team that is struggling offensively.


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## Lethe200

Thursday Night game, 12/17/2020: Chargers 30, Raiders 27 in OT

*Chargers come back to beat Raiders, Mariota in overtime*
Raiders take a field goal in OT on fourth-and-goal from the 5 but Chargers, Herbert ruin Marcus Mariota's big night
(written by lethe200; stats from Wiki and various Net media articles)

I've been a fan of Marcus Mariota since he was a college senior at Oregon, winning the Heisman in 2014. He was the Titans' first round draft pick in 2015, going at #2 (first pick was Jameis Winston).

Despite his first three years of success with the Titans, injuries slowed Mariota down. Eventually Ryan Tannehill, picked up from Miami, won the starting QB job in Week 7 in 2019 and Mariota was released at the end of the season.

Mariota signed a two year contract with the LVegas Raiders as back-up for Derek Carr. He was on the IR until October 20, 2020, when he was finally activated for limited practice time.

But in a tight, if meaningless game, at 7:42 in Q2, Derek Carr pulled a groin muscle on a right-side option play and limped off the field. In came Mariota, looking better than he had in years. He completed 17 of 28 passes for 226 yards, a touchdown and an interception, plus rushed for 88 yards and another touchdown.

For the second time in his career, Mariota had a perfect 158.3 passer rating. He is also the only QB in NFL history to have had a PPR in his very first start. Achieving two PPRs puts him in elite company: only Craig Morton, Dave Krieg, Ken O'Brien, Tom Brady, and Lamar Jackson have done it twice. The only players who have more than two PPRs are Ben Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning (each have four), and Kurt Warner (three). Most QBs never reach a PPR over their entire careers.

The Raiders fired their DC last week after a horrendous loss to the Colts, and unfortunately it looked like more of the same this week against the rocket-armed Justin Herbert. The Raiders D couldn’t stop either the passing game or the running game, and the Chargers threatened constantly.

LAC’s defense bottled up speedy Raiders RB Josh Jacobs pretty well, with only a couple of exciting long gains allowed. Darren Waller presented just as much a problem for LAC as he has for every Raider opponent this year; he is on pace to do even better than his excellent 2019 stats. Waller is a genuine turn-around story: the former Ravens WR battled his way through drug addiction and an NFL suspension to be signed by the Raiders in 2019, coming back sober and more dedicated to football than ever.

But lacking a breakaway running game, Mariota got the score tied 24–24, but couldn’t get the Raiders into the endzone in OT, settling for a FG when a 4th-and-five came up. HC Gruden had gambled successfully on two earlier 4th down attempts, but didn’t want to risk trying for five yards when the running game wasn’t working well.

Gruden's strategy blew up in their faces when the Raiders D couldn't stack the goal line, and LAC pushed into the endzone for the win in OT.

Sometimes meaningless games can be fun to watch. This was one of them, especially those last 15 minutes!


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## jerry old

TV announcer made much of Cowboy's win "Their first winning streak of the season."
That's two wins in a row-Honestly, how inane can you get.

Watching Saints and KC. would like to see  if Drew Brees can stay with Mahomes.
This may well be Drew's last season, he needs a last hurrah. 
Poor Saints and their annual battle with obscurity.

ADDENDUM:  KC won, Brees was off, but Mahomes was not as sharp as he usually is.
So who will win the Super Bowl, KC should be there, but then, 'On any Given Sunday...'
The only teams That Might beat Mahomes are the Saints (Drew Brees) and the Packers with
the evil Arron Rodgers.
The Steelers might beat KC in the playoffs,but that's doubtful.


Your opinion is____________________________________________


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## Ken N Tx

jerry old said:


> TV announcer made much of Cowboy's win "Their first winning streak of the season."
> That's two wins in a row-Honestly, how inane can you get.
> 
> Watching Saints and KC. would like to see if Drew Brees can stay with Mahomes.
> This may well be Drew's last season, he needs a last hurrah.
> Poor Saints and their annual battle with obscurity.


These 2 games where the better of a bad season...


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## Ken N Tx

1959
Tom Landry becomes head coach of the Dallas Cowboys.For 22 consecutive years the team had winning seasons.He left the team in 1988


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## fmdog44

As far as I know what has happened to the Texans at the hands of the Colt this year has never happened. Two weeks ago a fumbled snap by Houston going for the endzone to win than again this week a fumble near the endzone going in for the score both giving the Colts the win instead of the Texans.


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## Don M.

The Chiefs managed to "squeak" past New Orleans for yet another "down to the wire" game.  They seem to have a talent for keeping the games close, and pulling out a win in the final minutes.  Everyone in this area is hoping they can continue to find a way to win and make it to the Super Bowl again.


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## Don M.

The Chiefs managed to "squeak" past New Orleans for yet another "down to the wire" game.  They seem to have a talent for keeping the games close, and pulling out a win in the final minutes.  Everyone in this area is hoping they can continue to find a way to win and make it to the Super Bowl again.
Oops...double post....not quite awake yet.


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## Irwin

Don M. said:


> The Chiefs managed to "squeak" past New Orleans for yet another "down to the wire" game.  They seem to have a talent for keeping the games close, and pulling out a win in the final minutes.  Everyone in this area is hoping they can continue to find a way to win and make it to the Super Bowl again.
> Oops...double post....not quite awake yet.



That was a good game! One of the best of the season!


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## Marie5656

*Buffalo Bills. AFC champs for the first time in 25 years. Just say'in.





*


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## Lethe200

Due to space limitations, here's the Week 15 Monday Night Football game separately from the usual "Lessons Learned" two-parter, which will follow.

*Monday Night: Bengals 27, Steelers 17* (courtesy of Sporting News)
Turnovers plagued Pittsburgh for a third straight loss. Pittsburgh has already clinched a postseason berth, but doesn't look anything like a playoff team. Ben Roethlisberger is looking more and more like a 38-year-old quarterback. He completed 20 of 38 passes (52.6 percent) for just 170 yards with one touchdown and one interception against a Cincinnati team that gave up 30 points to the hapless Cowboys last week.

The big issue for Pittsburgh in the first half Monday was ball security; the Bengals (3-10-1) scored all 17 of their points in the half following turnovers. RB Giovanni Bernard finished with 83 yards and a touchdown on 25 carries and added a 14-yard TD catch, helping backup QB Ryan Finley manage a conservative gameplan in place of injured Joe Burrow, who won’t be back until 2021. Finley completed just 7 of 13 passes for 89 yards and a touchdown to go with a surprise 23-yard rushing TD.

The Steelers (11-3) are now just one game ahead of the Browns in the AFC North with two games left to play. They have a tough slate down the stretch; they host the Colts next week before making a trip to Cleveland to end the regular season.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 15 of the NFL Season * Pt 1 of 2
The Chiefs won a potential Super Bowl preview against the Saints, the Titans and the Colts stayed hot and the previously winless Jets pulled off the upset of the season.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman, Dec. 20, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Top Passer: Ryan Tannehill, Titans*
There is a reason Tennessee made Tannehill its off-season priority. The veteran QB put on a show in a blowout win over the Detroit Lions, completing 21 of 27 passes for 273 yds and three TDs. He also ran in two TDs, absolutely pouring it on during a dominant fourth quarter that made the game laughable. It was Tennessee’s fifth straight game with at least 420 yds of total offense and 30 points. “We want to keep our foot on the gas,” Tannehill said.

*Top Runner: David Montgomery, Bears*
Tennessee’s Derrick Henry and Minnesota’s Dalvin Cook have been the NFL’s best RBs this season, and both played well on Sunday. But it was Chicago’s Montgomery that had the biggest day, willing his team to a huge win over Cook’s Vikings. Minnesota’s defense struggled to contain Montgomery. He rushed for a career-high 146 yds in Chicago’s 33-27 win, scoring a pair of TDs. He has had more than 100 yds in three of the Bears’ four games since their Week 11 bye. “It’s been fun, man, being able to go out there and just let it loose,” Montgomery said.

*Top Receiver: DeAndre Hopkins, Cardinals*
Hopkins had numerous highlights, including a 45-yard reception, but it was a 20-yard go-ahead TD catch that left everyone wondering how exactly a team can defend the superstar WR. Philadelphia’s Michael Jacquet made an excellent attempt to break up the pass, but Hopkins simply reached over him, pulled the ball in and then held on one-handed as he fell back into the end zone.

*One* Sentence About Sunday’s Games **Except when it takes more.

*Chiefs 32, Saints 29.* In what was potentially a Super Bowl preview, the KC Chiefs are now an NFL-best 13-1 and retain the top spot in the AFC playoff race. Drew Brees creaked back into action despite breaking 11 ribs and puncturing a lung several weeks ago. But the layoff showed, although neither Patrick Mahomes nor Brees looked their best. But Mahomes’s three TD passes and a Le’Veon Bell rushing TD put KC up by enough that New Orleans’ late comeback attempt proved fruitless. KC’s Travis Kelce had eight catches for 68 yds and a TD in the Chiefs’ win.

But KC also lost, in a manner of speaking. RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire, rookie first-round pick, who immediately became a vital part of KC’s offense this season, was injured near the end of the game. The diagnosis is a severe high ankle strain, which will keep him out at least through the remaining two regular seasons games.

*Colts 27, Texans 20.* Even in a down season for Houston, the AFC South rivalry between the Texans and the Indianapolis Colts has provided two memorable games. Two weeks ago, Houston appeared to be on the verge of taking the lead in the final two minutes when a bad snap led to a fumble and allowed Indianapolis to run out the clock. Sunday’s game was just as wild. Indianapolis led, 14-0, in the first quarter before this became a close game.

Houston then put up a strong fight, but Philip Rivers’s 5-yard TD pass with 1 minute 47 seconds remaining would prove to be enough, barely. With the Colts, clinging to that 27-20 lead, the Texans were driving into the red zone. Texans QB Deshaun Watson connected with Keke Coutee. Coutee got within inches of punching the ball into the end zone, but Indianapolis forced a fumble to preserve their victory.

The victory allowed the Colts to keep pace with Tennessee in the AFC South. It was the 14th consecutive regular-season game between Indianapolis and Houston that was decided by 9 or fewer points.

*Titans 46, Lions 25.* Tennessee (10-4) was leading by only 24-18 after three quarters, but things got ridiculous from there, with Ryan Tannehill throwing two fourth-quarter TD passes in addition to scoring two rushing TDs. The Titans’ Derrick Henry made numerous highlights as he rushed for 147 yds and scored his 15th rushing TD of the season. Henry is up to a career-high 1,679 yds rushing, putting him 195 ahead of Minnesota’s Dalvin Cook for the NFL lead. Henry could become the first player with consecutive rushing titles since the Hall of Famer LaDainian Tomlinson did it in 2006 and 2007.

The Titans lead Indianapolis in the AFC South thanks to their superior record in division games. The Lions are 5-9, mired in last place in the NFC North.

*Jets 23, Rams 20.* The Jets can’t even tank right. Avoiding a winless season is surely a relief for the Jets’ players, but the victory, combined with Jacksonville’s 13th straight loss, has the Jaguars in line for the No. 1 pick in the 2021 draft with two games remaining for both teams.

It has been a horrible season for the Jets. But on this Sunday they took care of business on offense, produced a takeaway on defense, and then held on for dear life in a game that seemed like it could slip away at any second. To pull off the upset of the heavily-favored Rams (9-5), the Jets got contributions from the entire roster. CB Lamar Jackson, who was beaten for a game-winning TD two weeks ago, recovered a critical blocked punt.

With a TD pass by Sam Darnold, a rushing TD by the ageless Frank Gore - the 100th TD of Gore’s career - and three field goals from Sam Ficken, the Jets delivered the biggest upset of the season, beating the LA Rams after coming in as 17-point underdogs. Gore also helped ice the Jets’ upset win with a crucial first down late in Q4.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 15 of the NFL Season * Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman, Dec. 20, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Buccaneers 31, Falcons 27.* The Falcons led TBay on Sunday by 17-0 and 24-7 before losing to yet another Tom Brady comeback. Having lost the 2016 Super Bowl to Brady in the biggest collapse in SB history, when the Falcons were ahead 28-3 before losing, Atlanta must be looking forward to Brady retiring someday.

TBay has had a problem with slow starts all season, being outscored by 32 points in first quarters. That sluggishness was taken to an extreme on Sunday when the Buccaneers went into halftime trailing Atlanta 17-0, having gained only 60 total yds. Then TBay players woke up on both sides of the ball, producing 356 second-half yds and Tom Brady’s go-ahead, 46-yard TD pass to Antonio Brown in Q4. Atlanta had two more chances to regain the lead, but TBay’s defense locked in, forcing a punt and a turnover on downs.

*Ravens 40, Jaguars 14.* It is presumably OK to stop worrying about Baltimore’s offense after it led the team to a third consecutive win, in a game that was decided by halftime. Lamar Jackson threw three TD passes and ran in another. One of Jackson’s three TD passes went to 32-year-old WR Dez Bryant. It was 1,106 days since Bryant’s last TD – 982 days since he was released by Dallas, 772 days since he tore his Achilles’ tendon with the Saints, and 12 days since he tested positive for the coronavirus. Bryant has just five receptions this season, but that is five more than anyone might have expected him to get.

*Dolphins 22, Patriots 12.* Led by RBs Salvon Ahmed and Matt Breida, Miami (9-5) rumbled for 250 yds rushing and three rushing TDs. The Dolphins are in line for the AFC’s final wild-card spot - thanks to a tiebreaker over Baltimore - and have clinched a winning season for just the second time since 2008. Miami’s Salvon Ahmed ran for 122 yds and a TD, helping the Dolphins eliminate the New England Patriots (6-8) from playoff contention.

Miami’s Xavien Howard should receive consideration for Defensive Player of the Year Award. Howard, a 27-year-old CB, forced a fumble in Miami’s 22-12 victory over New England, while also having a fumble recovery for a TD called back because another player had stepped out of bounds before touching the ball. With nine interceptions this season, plus Sunday’s forced fumble, Howard has produced a takeaway in 10 of Miami’s 14 games. He is a huge reason the Dolphins have shocked the NFL with a record of 9-5. Howard’s case would get a big push with one more interception, as he would then be the first player since 2007 to have 10 in a season.

*Seahawks 20, Footballers 15.* Washington (6-8, first place NFC East) came surprisingly close to rallying from a 20-3 deficit, but the Seahawks’ much-maligned defense forced a turnover on downs in the final minute that gave Seattle a win and clinched a playoff spot. Despite missing several games due to injury, Seattle’s Jamal Adams had a tackle for loss, a sack (9.5 on the year) and he gets to be in the playoffs for the first time in his young career. The division is Seattle’s (10-4) with a win next Sunday over the Rams (9-5).

The NFC East has achieved a record, of sorts. It is the first time in NFL history that each team in the division has, at some point during the season, both lead the division, and also been last in the division.

*Bears 33, Vikings 27.* Minnesota (6-8) was playing at home, got 132 yds rushing from Dalvin Cook and 104 yds receiving from Justin Jefferson – and still lost. Credit Chicago all you want, but the Vikings’ defense needs a lot of work. Matt Nagy and the Bears (7-7) finally figured out how to fit an offense to QB Mitchell Trubisky’s talents. Trubisky’s decision-making and judgement seems to have improved, along with his self-confidence.

*Cardinals 33, Eagles 26.* Jalen Hurts and Kyler Murray were back-to-back Heisman Trophy finalists at Oklahoma and showed off how well their skills translate to the NFL on Sunday. Philadelphia’s Hurts threw for 338 yds, Arizona’s Murray threw for 406. Both had three TD passes and each ran in a score. Murray’s was his 11th rushing TD of the season. The Eagles have improved with rookie Hurts, but still look rough around the edges.

Arizona’s acquisition of five-time Pro Bowler DeAndre Hopkins from the Houston Texans for peanuts, continues to pay huge dividends. He made several outstanding catches, including a gorgeous 45-yarder from Murray on the Eagles’ 30-yd line early in Q2. Despite two Eagles defenders bookending him front and back, Hopkins grabbed the ball away from one of them, yanking it out of his hands and keeping it tight against his body as the two men slammed down onto the turf. Two plays later the Cards had a TD to go into halftime with a lead. The Cardinals (8-6) held on for the win thanks to a late defensive stand.

*Browns 20, Giants 6.* A team shouldn’t get all that excited about beating the Giants when Daniel Jones is injured, but Cleveland improved to 10-4, reaching double-digits in wins for just the second time since the team was resurrected in 1999 and only the third time since 1989 should you include the before times. The Giants are now 5-9, but behind the Cowboys due to division losses.

*Cowboys 41, 49ers 33.* RB Ezekiel Elliott missed a game because of injury for the first time in his career, and he watched his backup, Tony Pollard, put up a strong performance: 132 yds from scrimmage and two TDs. Elliott hasn’t had 130 yds from scrimmage in a game since Week 15 of last season. Each of these teams has the same record of 5-9, but the Niners are in last place in the NFC West while the Cowboys are in second place in the NFC East.

Niners HC Shanahan has given back-up QB Nick Mullens every chance, but the turnovers continue. Mullens was responsible for three of the four game turnovers, with Dallas scoring TDs on two of them. He had a couple of good drives, but was taken out in Q4 with a season-ending elbow injury. CJ Beathard has not ever been great (or even good, over the years the Niners have had him as back-up QB) but compared to Mullens right now, he’s Joe Namath and Aaron Rodgers combined. He sailed a last-minute TD to bump the Niners to a semi-respectable point total.

There is little excuse for sloppy execution on both sides of the ball, but the Niners’ streak of injuries continues. They have had a record 28 players on IR and added three more after the game: Mullens (elbow, surgery), RB Raheem Mostert (came off IR, in for one play, and went out again aggravating the high ankle sprain), and safety Jimmie Ward went on concussion protocol.


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## Lethe200

Marie5656 said:


> *Buffalo Bills. AFC champs for the first time in 25 years. Just say'in.*


Just for you, Marie! Jason Gay is one of my favorite sports humorists. FYI "Grumpy Lobster Boat Captain" is who Gay likes to say Belichick resembles!

*The Buffalo Bills Have Won the AFC East. This Isn’t a Misprint.*
A resurgent franchise takes its first divisional title in a quarter-century. The playoffs await.
WS Journal by Jason Gay, Dec. 20, 2020

The planet shuddered, perceptibly, Saturday night. Perhaps you felt the rumble. The Buffalo Bills thumped the Denver Broncos, 48-19, and clinched football’s AFC East.

Let’s take a moment to appreciate what has happened here. This is the first time the Bills have captured this division since 1995—a long ago time, when Bill Clinton was President, Americans would trudge through snow to return Jean-Claude Van Damme VHS tapes, and the computer would excitedly scream, in a human voice, across the room when you received an email.

The Bills used to win this division a lot back then. The NFL was different. The New England Patriots were regularly quite crummy.

Buffalo back on top? It feels like both a throwback and a breath of fresh air. If you know and love a Bills fan, especially a long-suffering Bills fan, who’s proud but also slightly haunted by the whole lifetime experience, call to congratulate him or her. Maybe not first thing Sunday a.m.—maybe they were at the Buffalo airport, in the cold, greeting the team, like a whole bunch of others—but call.

And yes: call. Don’t text. Maybe even call on a rotary dial phone, or a Nokia shaped like a brick, to stick with ’90s vibe.

We should talk about how they got there. There’s nothing flukish about this squad. The Bills have been a team on the verge for some time, often maddeningly so—to be a Bills fan in recent years has been to experience flashes of hope, and then watch those flashes ritually crushed—but in this pandemic-disrupted, no-fans, Covid-chaos season, they finally made the leap, establishing themselves not only as the class of the division, but as a potential Super Bowl contender.

Yeah, I said it. Yes, I know the Kansas City Chiefs have a say. The Bills are 11-3, my friends. They’re utterly legit. I’m just reporting facts.

They’ve done a lot of this on the arm—and legs—of Josh Allen, their sturdy young quarterback, 24 years old and 6-foot-5, from the University of Wyoming via Reedley College, who, in his third year, and not without some wobbly formative learning, has proven himself not only as the type of quarterback who can manage a football game, but also have bona fide moments, bespoke, Josh Allen Moments, Josh Allen doing the kind of things that Josh Allen only does. He had a few of them in Saturday’s rout over Denver, in which he threw a pair of touchdowns, and ran for a couple, too, including a 24-yard dash early in the second quarter.

Allen’s a new kind of thrill, but the whole Buffalo team is like this—intriguing, not the same-old familiar. Stefon Diggs, a wide receiver acquired from Minnesota, has given Allen a steady principal target. The Bills defense is gaining strength, hunkering down as the weather turns frigid. Sean McDermott, the 10th Bills head coach since Marv Levy stepped down after the 1997 season, has impressively built upon last year’s 10-6, playoff wild-card campaign. Hot coordinators Brian Daboll (offense) and Leslie Frazier (defense) are likely to get head coaching looks this winter.

And sure, we should talk about Them, too, because Their sudden decline is a factor in this story—the Patriots, the habitual AFC East heavies, are in a rebuild year, or at least what for them is a rebuild year, as Tom Brady vamoosed and Bill Belichick’s team fell to Miami Sunday, and will miss the playoffs for the first time since the 2008 season.

It was the Patriots, with Brady, and the Grumpy Lobster Boat Captain, who won AFC East the last 11 times, and 16 of the last 17 times, routinely sucking the soul out of promising Bills (and Dolphins, and Jets) teams and making regional dominance look like a dull chore. A Patriots comedown felt inevitable, but it sure took forever.

Still: Buffalo’s story is more the story of a rise than a fall. You can only play the dealt hand. The Bills didn’t ship Brady off to Tampa. Buffalo had to capitalize, and they did.

It’s a minor crime against the Football Gods that none of this is happening with fans present—unless restrictions are lifted, (and New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is open to the possibility), the Bills will host a playoff game with no warm souls in the stadium. That feels a little wrong, as game day in Buffalo—especially a playoff game in Buffalo—is a special kind of circus. The opponent is to be named, but this will be the first home playoff for the Bills since 1996. 1996! Again: the world was different then. I drove a Mercury Topaz with a missing front badge, and got magazines delivered in the mail.

I’m assuming Bills fans, marooned at home, can make up the difference, no matter where they watch. As said, it’s been a while, but the seasoned among them know what to do. The most important games are coming, and the Bills are back. Like, really back. It’s happening. It’s like old times and new times, all at once.


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## DaveA

I'm a New Englander and a Pats fan since they were formed in the old Americn  Football league - -but - -if someone else (in the division) has to win, I'm glad that it's the long suffering Bills.

And while I'm at it, can anyone tell me why young Stidham isn't finishing out the season as the Pats QB?  They're not going anywhere, Cam Newton is a bust (in my view) and the playing time would be invaluable to a young aspiring QB.


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## jerry old

i  would guess only BB knows why he will not play the young talent.


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## Lethe200

Christmas Day and Saturday games, Week 16

*Alvin Kamara Runs for Six TDs Against Vikings*
The Saints RB tied an NFL record set in 1929 in New Orleans’ 52-33 win over the Minnesota Vikings.
Associated Press Dec. 25, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

Drew Brees was still hurting although less rusty than he was last Sunday, when the Saints lost to the KC Chiefs. But he could have just sat out and let HC Sean Payton put in Taysom Hill as QB, or even the guy who sprays disinfectant on the locker room cabinets.

All the Saints needed for Christmas was RB Alvin Kamara, who wore non-regulation colored shoes to celebrate the holiday on the way to a career-high 155 rushing yds and 6 rushing TDs as he single-handedly beat the Minnesota Vikings 52-33 to clinch their fourth straight NFC South title.

Minnesota’s defensive front has been hit hard by injuries and couldn’t stop Kamara all day. His six rushing TDs equaled Hall of Fame fullback Ernie Nevers’ achievement back in 1929. The Vikings were eliminated from playoff contention. The Saints (11-4) never punted. They totaled 583 yds offense – 264 yds of them rushing – and the most points allowed by a Vikings team since 1963. The Saints might have won by a greater margin if not for two interceptions of Drew Brees, one of them on a pass that deflected off receiver Emmanuel Sanders’ hands.

The Vikings kept it a contest into Q3, with TD Irv Smith Jr. scoring his second TD to pull Minnesota to within 31-27. But Kirk Cousins, who passed for 283 yds and three TDs for the Vikings, was playing catch-up right from the start.

Brees completed 19 of 26 throws for 311 yds in his second game back from rib and lung injuries that had sidelined him for four games. Sanders had four catches for 83 yds, while TE Jared Cook caught three passes for 82 yds. HC Sean Payton did put Taysom Hill in the game with 4 minutes remaining for a designed QB run from the goal line for the only non-Kamara TD.

The Saints will visit the Carolina Panthers on Jan. 3, the final Sunday of the regular season, while Minnesota will visit the Detroit Lions.

=====
_(Remaining Fri/Sat game summaries are from local media and ESPN sports)_

*Niners 20, Cardinals 12.* The 49ers won't make the playoffs but they hindered the Arizona Cardinals' chances with a 20-12 upset, in a stunning defensive game. DC Robert Saleh heads the list of potential new HCs in 2021, especially after this game. The Niners have had crippling injuries on both sides of the ball all year, and Saleh was making magic with a defensive 11 that consisted of mostly third- and fourth-stringers. Despite a whopping 31 players shuttling on and off IR in 2020, the Niners D is rated 4th in the NFL.

The Niners’ LB Fred Warner, going to his first Pro Bowl, put on a show. He forced and recovered a fumble, and nearly made a Q3 interception to help stop the Cards in the red zone. Erratic but talented CB Ahkello Witherspoon helped with several key tackles and a beautiful end-zone interception of a Kyler Murray pass. CB Jason Verrett did an outstanding job crowding the Cards’ WR DeAndre Hopkins all day, keeping him down to only 4 catches.

The Niners (6–9) final game is against the Seahawks (11–4). To secure the first-round bye, the Seahawks would need a win against the 49ers in Week 17 AND a loss from the Packers AND a loss or tie by the Saints. The Cards (8–7) go up against the LA Rams, who must win to get a wild-card spot after losing to Seattle on Sunday, dropping their record to 9–6.

*Raiders 25, Dolphins 26.* The Raiders found a new way to lose Saturday night. After taking the lead with 19 seconds to play, they allowed a 34-yard pass play on a lazy lob from Dolphins quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick to receiver Mack Hollins. The closest Raiders defenders were cornerbacks Damon Arnette and Isaiah Johnson, neither of whom seemed to understand where they were supposed to be. The catch was at the Raiders 41, but was compounded by a 15-yard roughing-the-passer penalty that moved the Dolphins to their own 26. A 44-yard field goal by Jason Sanders gave Miami the last-second win. Tua had started for Miami, but was ineffective. Fitzpatrick came in at the Q3 mark and sparked the offense, ending up 9-for-13 for 182 yards. The Dolphins are now 10–5, with their final game against the Bills. The Raiders drop to 7–8, firmly in second place behind the Chiefs but ahead of the Chargers and Broncos. They play the latter in their final game on Sunday.

*Buccaneers 47, Lions 7.* The Buccaneers clinched their first playoff berth since 2007 as they roll over the Lions. QB Tom Brady broke the franchise Jameis Winston's 33 in 2019 record of single-season TD passes, with his 34th TD pass in Q2. The Lions’ QB Mark Stafford suffered an ankle injury and Chase Daniels came in to replace him. The Bucs went into the locker room at halftime up 34-0. Blaine Gabbert came in to give Brady a rest, adding two more passing TDs. The Lions were never a serious threat. Their only TD came from special teams play, when a Bucs punt was returned 74 yards by Jamal Agnew. It put the Lions on the board, 40-7 with 9:20 left in Q3.


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## Irwin

Bills play the Pats this evening! Go Bills!


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## jerry old

I dunno, but whatever Bucs are paying Tom Brady (23M) it  is not enough.

Irwin says we can watch the demise of the Pats tonight, well,  they've been on top a long time.  
There demise is something that happens to all teams; however their fans don't believe that.

Not sure how the dominate team is now: Seahawks, they always seem to be around at playoff time.

LA, SF what happened.  Still don't understand how a team can rise up, then fall the next year: Eagles, Rams, Sf...
Can't even discuss NFC East, all four teams went to hell in a hand basket.  
One of these teams will be in the playoffs with six or seven wins-they should all be hiding their faces in shame.


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## Lethe200

_Sorry, everyone - Xmas made hash of my schedule, so I never did post the ‘Week 16 Predictions’. Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday, and stayed safe and well!_

*What We Learned From Week 16 of the NFL Season * Pt 1 of 2
The Steelers came back to beat the Colts, KC survived against Atlanta and Jacksonville secured the No. 1 pick in the draft.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Dec. 27, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Here’s what we learned:

Chiefs 17, Falcons 14.* It was a quiet day by KC’s lofty standards, and the team’s running game looked far less effective without the injured Clyde Edwards-Helaire. But Travis Kelce had a big day, and now needs just 84 yds receiving to become the first TE to have 1,500 yds in a season. His biggest obstacle is the likelihood that the Chiefs will rest multiple starters after having already clinched a first-round bye. The Chiefs cut it close but improved to 14-1 to clinch the AFC’s only first-round bye. Perhaps by the playoffs the Chiefs will decide that it is important to make an effort for the entire game.

Mahomes still seemed off his usual rhythm, ending with 2 interceptions, completing 24 passes (out of 45 attempts) for a [mere] 278 yds. Added to the 117 rushing yds, the Chiefs were positively mundane at only 395 yds total offense. A win was hardly necessary for KC, as the Chiefs were assured of the #1 seed in the AFC even if they lost their final two games. But a sloppy effort against Atlanta had the Chiefs behind 14-10 with just over two minutes remaining. It would have been OT if not for an unlikely miss from Atlanta’s Younghoe Koo, when the Pro Bowl kicker’s attempt at a game-tying 39-yard field goal sailed wide right.

*Steelers 28, Colts 24.* At halftime, Indianapolis was romping to an easy win. Pittsburgh came into the day on a three-game losing streak, and by Q3 fell behind the Colts 24-7. Then the Steelers stopped trying to dink and dunk themselves to victory and had their aggressiveness pay off in spades, with the team earning its first AFC North title in three seasons. Ben Roethlisberger threw a deep 39-yard TD pass to Diontae Johnson in Q3. Big Ben added a 5-yard TD to Eric Ebron and a 25-yarder to JuJu Smith-Schuster in Q4, as Pittsburgh’s defense shut down Indianapolis. The Colts’ final four drives resulted in two punts, an interception and a turnover on downs.

Pittsburgh clinched the AFC North title with Sunday’s win and is a half-game ahead of Buffalo for the #2 seed in the AFC playoffs. Indianapolis fell to 10-5, but despite being one of the NFL’s better teams this season, is not in line for a playoff spot because the Baltimore Ravens and the Cleveland Browns own tiebreakers over the Colts.

*Ravens 27, Giants 13.* The Giants’ third straight loss was largely a result of Baltimore’s offense overwhelming them. Ravens Gus Edwards led a rushing attack that produced 249 yds on 40 carries. The D had a fine day as well, making Daniel Jones’s life miserable with six sacks and 11 QB hits. The Ravens, who thrive when chewing up huge chunks of yardage on the ground, have averaged 233.3 yds rushing a game during their recent four-game win streak.

Baltimore’s four-game win streak has included only one victory over a team with a winning record, but an average of 37 points a game is impressive no matter the opponent. A soft schedule, and a return to form by QB Lamar Jackson, has righted the ship and thanks to the victory over the Giants, the Ravens can now secure the team’s third straight trip to the playoffs simply by beating the Cincinnati Bengals next week.

*Seahawks 20, Rams 9.* It was hardly an explosive effort, but Seattle clinched the NFC West title and kept alive a small chance at a first-round bye. Seattle’s defense was terrible for most of the season, but the team has been showing dramatic improvement on that side of the ball. Quandre Diggs’s interception in Q2 ended a promising drive by the Rams. Seattle’s last game is against the injury-ridden Niners, who shouldn’t be a problem – except that oddsmakers said that about the recent Niners–Cardinals and Niners–Rams games, with both games won by San Francisco.

Despite its loss, Los Angeles controls its own fate next week. A win over the Cardinals next Sunday would give the Rams a wild-card spot in the playoffs. The Cardinals are 8-7 after a painful loss to a patched-up but ferocious Niner defense. It will be interesting to see if Kyler Murray and DeAndre Hopkins can release some pent-up resentment to spoil the Rams’ chances.

*Jets 23, Browns 16.* It took a total team effort for Cleveland to lose, with Baker Mayfield completing just 28 of his 53 passes, the Browns’ celebrated running game averaging just 2.5 yds a carry and the team’s defense making the Jets’ Sam Darnold look downright competent. A win would have clinched a playoff spot for Cleveland, but the Browns will now go into Week 17 fighting with Miami and Baltimore for the three wild-card spots in the AFC.

Two weeks ago RB Frank Gore, 37, addressed the Jets’ struggles (and his own future), saying “You don’t want to go 0-16, especially if this is my last year. I can’t go out like that.” Last week Gore helped the Jets end their 13-game losing streak by scoring the 100th TD of his career. This week he ran for a team-high 48 yds as the Jets beat the Cleveland Browns, 23-16. In doing so, Gore joined Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton as the only players in NFL history with at least 16,000 yds rushing - only two other active players, Detroit’s Adrian Peterson (14,757) and TBay’s LeSean McCoy (11,102), have more than 10,000.

*Cowboys 37, Eagles 17.* Everything went right for Dallas. Andy Dalton threw for 377 yds and three TDs. Ezekiel Elliott rushed for 105 yds. Michael Gallup, Amari Cooper and CeeDee Lamb all put on a show against Philadelphia’s overwhelmed secondary. The Eagles’ rookie QB Jalen Hurts topped 300 yds passing for a second consecutive week, but wasn’t able to turn that yardage into enough points. Dallas somewhat surprisingly still has a shot at making the playoffs.


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 16 of the NFL Season * Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Dec. 27, 2020 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Panthers 20, Footballers 13.* The division’s teams have often been hard to watch, but they will provide the most exciting subplot of Week 17, as the Footballers, the Dallas Cowboys and the Giants will all go into the season’s final day with a chance at earning a playoff game at home. The NFC East will be won by a team that is, at best, 7-9.

The story of the day was Washington QB Dwayne Haskins being benched for ineffective play on the heels of losing his captaincy as a result of off-field behavior. Taylor Heinicke was forced into action at QB for Washington after Dwayne Haskins was benched. On Monday Dec 28th, Haskins was released from the team, ending yet another of Owner Dan Snyder's impulsive decisions.

Washington (6-9) can make it nice and simple by winning a road game against the eliminated Philadelphia Eagles - a result that would be far more attainable should QB Alex Smith return from a calf injury.

Panthers WR Curtis Samuel has been remarkably versatile this season. He and Christian McCaffrey could present matchup problems for opponents should McCaffrey get back to full health next season.

*Chargers 19, Broncos 16.* Exciting LAC QB Justin Herbert is the first rookie QB to throw 28 TDs in a single season. He also became the fourth player to throw for over 4,000 yards as a rookie, joining Andrew Luck, Cam Newton and Jameis Winston. Denver’s D put pressure on Herbert all game long, so his numbers were just average: 21-of-33 passing for 253 yards, a TD and four carries for 26 yards.

Denver’s rookie Jerry Jeudy has done a fine job recently, but on Sunday he had a strange case of butterfingers. Jeudy was credited with dropping five of his targets, including a potential TD pass in the first half. QB Drew Lock has been one of the most consistently inconsistent players on the Broncos roster. The one aspect of Lock's game that does remain consistent is turning the football over. Lock has now given the ball away in 11 straight games, the longest current streak in the NFL. Denver had the ball with a chance to win the game in the final minute, but Drew Lock’s desperation heave in the red zone was intercepted, handing LAC its sixth win of the season.

*Bears 41, Jaguars 17.* Chicago’s Jimmy Graham caught two TD passes on Sunday, giving him 82 for his career. Among TEs, only Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez and Rob Gronkowski have more. The Bears put up 28 consecutive points to start the second half for the win. Combined with Arizona’s loss on Saturday, the Bears are in line for the NFC’s final wild-card spot. That sets up an entertaining Week 17 in which Chicago closes its season with a home game against the top-seeded GBay Packers, and the Cardinals have a tough matchup on the road against the Los Angeles Rams.

Provided he declares for the NFL draft, Clemson’s Trevor Lawrence will almost assuredly be headed south to the Jacksonville Jaguars. The Jets’ win last week knocked them out of the #1 draft pick. The Jaguars want to replace Gardner Minshew. But at least on offense Jacksonville should be a terrific landing spot for Lawrence, as he will immediately be handed a good young RB (James Robinson) and two talented young WRs (D.J. Chark and Laviska Shenault Jr.)

*Bengals 37, Texans 31.* Brandon Allen threw for 371 yds and two TDs and Samaje Perine ran for 95 yds and two scores, powering Cincinnati to its first road win since Sept. 30, 2018. Houston dropped to 4-11, having absolutely wasted a season of QB Deshaun Watson’s prime.

*GBay 40, Titans 14. *Aaron Rodgers and Davante Adams connected for three TD passes on a snow-covered Lambeau Field. Evoking memories of Bart Starr and Brett Favre leading the Pack to the Super Bowl, Green Bay would love the opportunity to produce plenty of similar scenes next month by staying home throughout the NFC playoffs. Rodgers threw four TD passes as the Packers trounced the Tennessee Titans 40-14 for their fifth consecutive victory Sunday night. The Packers (12-3) already have clinched the NFC North title and can earn the No. 1 seed in the NFC playoffs if they win at Chicago (8-7) or Seattle (11-4) loses at San Francisco (6-9) next week.

Tennessee (10-5) squandered an opportunity to clinch its first AFC South championship since 2008. The Titans still can clinch a division title by winning at Houston (4-11) next week. The Packers' defense picked off two passes from Ryan Tannehill, who went 11 of 24 for 121 yards. Tennessee's Derrick Henry rushed for 98 yards on 23 carries, ending his streak of nine consecutive road games in which he'd run for at least 100 yards.

*Monday Night game*: *Bills 28, Patriots 9.*
In Q3, Cam Newton (who has been playing injured) got pulled for Stidham, the rookie QB Belichick drafted this year. The Bills were slaughtering them anyway. Josh Allen put on another 4-TD show and then sat out the last half of Q4. Allen to Stefon Diggs is one of those magical connections, like Brady to Gronk or any QB to Jerry Rice. Diggs had a good career with the Vikings, but the March 2020 trade of Diggs to the Bills has made Josh Allen’s third season the success Buffalo had been hoping for all along.

Josh Allen has gone from dead last in QB efficiency in 2018 and 2019, to #4 this yr. In this Week 16 game Allen broke HoFamer Jim Kelly's team record with Allen's 34th TD with 1 game still left in 2020. He will certainly break Kelly's total passing record within the next season. Kelly played for 11 yrs for the Bills. The only real question is the quality of the competition they've faced. The Bills lost to the Chiefs but won vs the Steelers, but the rest of their schedule was creampuff quality.


----------



## Lethe200

This was an interesting read on the QB problems of the Bears, Browns, and Jets:

*Quarterback Keeper? Jets, Browns and Bears Face Contract Decisions *
Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield and Mitchell Trubisky have all been marginally impressive at times. But is that enough for their teams to sign them to salary-cap-straining contracts?
NY Times Dec. 30, 2020

The most pivotal decision an N.F.L. team must make is often not drafting the right quarterback but determining the right thing to do with the quarterback it drafted a few years ago.

The Jets and Sam Darnold are reaching a crossroads. The Cleveland Browns and Chicago Bears are facing similar decisions with Baker Mayfield and Mitchell Trubisky. Should these teams offer their marginally impressive, often disappointing young starters budget-burdening contracts or send them away and start over again?

There is no middle ground. If there exists a compensation package for a former first-round quarterback that lands somewhere between nine-figure golden handcuffs and bus fare out of town, N.F.L. front offices have yet to discover it.

Darnold, Mayfield and Trubisky have all made their teams’ decisions trickier by playing well — but not _that_ well — over the past few weeks. Darnold has led the Jets to back-to-back victories. Mayfield threw 10 touchdowns and just one interception in a four-game stretch that ended when a coronavirus outbreak left him throwing to scout-team wide receivers in Sunday’s loss to the Jets. Trubisky has completed over 70 percent of his passes and thrown six touchdowns while leading the Bears to three straight victories, albeit against a trio of scuffling opponents.

All three quarterbacks could be showing signs of improvement at the end of their third (Darnold and Mayfield) and fourth (Trubisky) N.F.L. seasons. Or their warm streaks may simply be random fluctuations caused by the quality of their opponents, some lucky bounces and heavily tempered expectations.

Trubisky is just a few weeks removed from being benched in favor of Nick Foles. Mayfield behaved as if he were his own internet troll at times last year and struggled against quality defenses early in this season. Darnold is graded on the Jets curve: Showing up and trying his hardest guarantees at least a C-plus.

The contracts of first-round draft picks come with built-in fifth-year team options: The player gets a hefty raise (Darnold’s base salary, for example, would jump from roughly $920,000 in 2021 to around $25 million in 2022), while the team gets an extra year of evaluation/procrastination. So the Jets and the Browns could delay their final decisions on Darnold and Mayfield until 2022. But exercising a quarterback’s fifth-year option is like asking a fiancé to postpone the wedding until they finish graduate school: perhaps prudent, but an undeniable sign of one’s true feelings.

Team politics also typically play a large role in determining a young quarterback’s fate. Newly hired coaches are rarely eager to repair the prospect who helped get the last coach fired.

The next Jets head coach is likely to approach undoing Adam Gase’s handiwork the way Batman defuses one of The Joker’s time bombs: The safest bet is to just hurl everything into Gotham River. So if the Jets keep Darnold, it may be only as a lame-duck place holder while his rookie replacement learns the playbook. Under such circumstances, a trade or release could provide both the Jets and Darnold a much-needed fresh start.

Front-office politics could also play a role in the Bears’ decision. General Manager Ryan Pace famously traded a bundle of mid-round draft picks to the San Francisco 49ers in 2017 to select Trubisky when Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson were still on the board. An executive who admits such a huge mistake rarely gets the chance to make another one. All the more reason to pretend that Trubisky is a late-blooming Aaron Rodgers.

The Bears declined Trubisky’s fifth-year option last off-season, so he enters 2021 as a free agent, leaving the team with several expensive, suboptimal choices. Franchise tagging Trubisky would cost the Bears more than the nearly $32 million one-year salary that Dak Prescott earned from the Dallas Cowboys’ indecision this season. A long-term contract may cost around $118 million over four years, as indicated by Ryan Tannehill’s contract with the Tennessee Titans. The cap-strapped Bears would struggle to afford either choice, neither of which Trubisky has earned.

Mayfield has outperformed Darnold and Trubisky, overcoming many youthful bad habits while leading the Browns to their first winning record since 2007. That makes the team’s next decision even more perilous. Mayfield appears to be in line for a contract in the $32 million to $40 million range per year, like those signed by Watson, Jared Goff and Carson Wentz in recent years. (Mahomes’s $500 million contract, like his entire career so far, belongs in its own category).

The Eagles, of course, have benched Wentz in favor of the rookie Jalen Hurts. But Wentz’s huge contract will make trading him like trying to sell a Lamborghini with 48 remaining payments after it was hit by a train. And Goff is the football equivalent of a $40 hamburger. Watson has played well in hopeless circumstances, and not every mammoth quarterback contract brings instant regret. But if the Browns choose to overpay Mayfield for “good enough,” they are likely to get precisely what they bargained for.

It’s easy to suggest that any team that is not completely satisfied with its young quarterback’s development should cut bait and dip instead into next year’s deep pool of can’t-miss rookies. But Darnold, Trubisky, Mayfield, Wentz and Goff all came from similar can’t-miss pools. If selecting and developing a franchise quarterback were easy, multiple teams would not face this predicament each year.

Ultimately, the Jets will probably trade or release Darnold; Mayfield should get Goff/Wentz money from the Browns; the Bears will find a solution to the Trubisky conundrum that makes sense only to the Bears; and everyone will wish they had selected Mahomes when they had the chance. The whole cycle will just begin anew next year when the Giants try to figure out what to do with Daniel Jones.


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## jerry old

There is a way to get rid, or partially rid, of these high dollar QB's-trade them, but the trading team has to pay part, sometimes all, 
of the traded player's salary. 
 Normally the team that accepts the Qb will assume some of the contractual obligation of the trading club.
Paying a QB 10 million a year when he does not play for you ought to make front offices more cautions, but it doesn't

So playoff picks, or striaght to the Super Bowl
NFC Saints or Packers
AFC KC, but Ravens and Steelers are dangerous
(Glad to see Brown in playoffs
(We have members in and around Houston-What's wrong?)
(Don't see Pats improving next year,  Buffalo appears to  be getting better and better)


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## jerry old

I'm sure you have seen the Brown's problem: head coach, two assistant coaches and one player have covis and will not appear 
in playoff game.
Gosh, isn't playing the Steelers for the third time in a season hard enough.
Not only that, but if they won- it is possible they may have to play the Ravens again.

Still think the evil QB in Green Bay will be in the super bowl.   (Saints )

There is another football thred


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 17 of the NFL Season *Pt 1 of 2
The GBay Packers secured the top seed in the NFC playoffs, while making an excellent argument for Aaron Rodgers as the NFL’s MVP. The Buffalo Bills got the No. 2 seed in the AFC, which ended the Miami Dolphins’ season. And the Cleveland Browns, after 17 seasons of frustration, are back in the playoffs. An exciting Sunday has set the playoff field.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Jan. 3, 2021 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Packers 35, Bears 16.* The road through the NFC playoffs goes through GBay. Perhaps the finest regular season of Aaron Rodgers’s career - one that has included two MVP Awards - finished with a rout of Chicago and an NFC-best record of 13-3. That gives the Packers home-field advantage throughout the playoffs, forcing opponents to come to Lambeau Field, which won’t have its raucous fans but will still have the frigid weather in which Rodgers has always thrived.

Rodgers added four more TD passes on Sunday, giving him a career-high 48 for a season, which is tied with Dan Marino for the fifth-most. Over the last three seasons, Rodgers, who seemed miffed when the Packers drafted his potential replacement in April, has 99 career TD passes and only 11 interceptions.

The beeping sound you hear is Chicago backing into the playoffs. The Bears needed help to earn a wild card after QB Mitchell Trubisky was largely ineffective and RB David Montgomery was limited to 3.1 yds a carry. The Bears can thank Arizona QB Kyler Murray, whose ankle injury probably enabled a Rams win, eliminating the Cardinals from bumping the Bears for that last playoff spot.

*Browns 24, Steelers 22.* You can’t end a 17-season playoff drought without a little drama. Despite topping 10 wins for only the second time since 1995, the Cleveland Browns entered the final day needing a win or some help from other teams, to reach the postseason for the first time since 2002. Pittsburgh’s decision to rest Ben Roethlisberger helped, with a coronavirus outbreak closing Cleveland’s facilities and left the team without three of its four starting defensive backs. Cleveland still impressed on the ground, racking up 192 yds on 31 carries, letting the team’s biggest strength carry it to the playoffs. Cleveland’s Nick Chubb helped run his team to victory, carrying the ball 14 times for 108 yds.

The Browns took a 24-9 lead early in Q4, but then had to sweat after Pittsburgh’s Mason Rudolph threw two TD passes to close the gap. An onside kick attempt after the second TD nearly succeeded, but the Browns, shaking off years of bad breaks, recovered the ball and held on for a nail-biting 24-22 win. The teams will face off again in a playoff game next week in Pittsburgh, with Roethlisberger expected to return.

*Bills 56, Dolphins 26* The Bills made the Dolphins suffer. Miami would have guaranteed itself a wild-card spot with a win on Sunday. They hoped rookie QB Tua Tagovailoa could take care of things, since Ryan Fitzpatrick - the NFL’s equivalent of an ace relief pitcher - was on the Covid-19 reserve list. It didn’t work out. While Tagovailoa threw for 361 yds and a TD, the rookie was also intercepted three times, including a pick-six, and never mounted much of a challenge to Buffalo’s dominance on both sides of the ball.

Buffalo began the day with Josh Allen at QB, letting the MVP candidate power them to a 28-6 lead at halftime. Then the defense and the backup QB Matt Barkley took care of the rest in a 56-26 laugher that never felt close. The Bills captured the No. 2 seed in the AFC with a division-winning 13-3 record, their best finish since 1991.

*Colts 28, Jaguars 14.* Some teams get more help than others in making the playoffs. The Indianapolis Colts took care of business in a 28-14 win over the Jacksonville Jaguars, but they made the playoffs because of Miami’s loss to Buffalo. Thanks, Dolphins!

For a while Indianapolis seemed to teeter on the edge of another brutal second-half collapse, but some terrific play by the team’s defense, and Jonathan Taylor’s 45-yard TD run in Q4, powered the Colts to victory. Taylor entered the season as a backup to Marlon Mack, but his 253 yds rushing and two TDs on Sunday gave him 1,169 yds and 11 TDs for a terrific rookie year.

*Titans 41, Texans 38.* The Titans are far from a one-man show. Derrick Henry rushed for 250 yds and 2 TDs, becoming the eighth player in NFL history to rush for 2,000 yds in a single season. But it was a few crucial plays from QB Ryan Tannehill late in the game that finished off a thrilling 41-38 win over the Houston Texans and gave Tennessee the AFC South title.

With the Titans trailing by 4 with less than two minutes to play, Tannehill sold a play-fake to Henry before running for a 5-yard TD. Houston promptly tied the score with a FG. But Tannehill got the ball back with only 18 seconds remaining and immediately completed a 52-yard pass to A.J. Brown that, along with a 4-yard run by Henry, set up Sam Sloman’s game-winning 37-yard FG.

Still, Houston’s players could hold their heads up high after a terrific second half by QB Deshaun Watson made the division rival Titans fight for it. If the Texans had better players to combine with JJ Watts and Deshaun Watson, their 4-12 record could be easily flipped.

*Buccaneers 44, Falcons 27.* The TBay Buccaneers occasionally tantalized last season but recognized they needed some stability on offense to complement their terrific defense. They replaced the frustrating Jameis Winston with Tom Brady, who was coming off a difficult season in New England but, even at 43, was seen as a player who could accentuate the team’s strengths. Brady had a few hiccups along the way, but he finished the year with 4,633 yds passing and a franchise-record 40 TD passes. More important, Sunday’s victory over Atlanta gave the Buccaneers an 11-5 record and made them the No. 5 seed in the NFC. It is their first trip to the playoffs since 2007.

Antonio Brown (11 catches, 138 yds, two TDs) and Chris Godwin (5-133-2) had terrific games for TBay. But the Buccaneers will be holding their collective breath for an update on the health of WR Mike Evans, who injured his knee. Evans had 46 yds receiving before the injury, giving him 1,006 for the season - he is the first NFL WR to have 1,000 or more yds in each of his first seven seasons.


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From Week 17 of the NFL Season *Pt 2 of 2
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Jan. 3, 2021 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Seahawks 26, 49ers 23.* SF was leading by 9-6 after three quarters with another remarkable defensive effort. But inevitably, Russell Wilson took over in the fourth, throwing two TD passes to Tyler Lockett. Alex Collins ran in a score as well. The game would not have been as close if not for a garbage-time score by SF’s Jeff Wilson Jr., who has shown impressively over the last half of the season. Seattle ends at 12-4, with the Rams also in as a playoff team at 10-6. Seattle’s D is playing noticeably better than it was in the first half of 2020.

The Niners finished the year at 6-10 in last place. They set an NFL record with 30 players listed on IR at some point in the season, and tied the Dolphins’ old NFL record of using 80 different players over the year. SF may look very different in 2021, with 37 players eligible for free agency and like many teams, salary cap issues. DC Robert Saleh is being interviewed by five NFL teams as a potential head coach, but management expects to fill his vacancy from within.

*Saints 33, Panthers 7.* Covid-19 protocols led to New Orleans being without nearly all of its RBs, but that did not slow the team down in the slightest. Ty Montgomery, who plays some WR but also has experience at RB, filled in admirably, carrying the ball 18 times for 105 yds. That, combined with Drew Brees’s three passing TDs and a rushing TD from Taysom Hill, was more than enough against Carolina.

*Ravens 38, Bengals 3.* J.K. Dobbins showed off why many people believe he is Baltimore’s top RB going forward, rumbling for 160 yds and two TDs on just 13 carries. But Lamar Jackson was nearly as effective, rushing for 97 yds on 11 carries, which left him with 1,005 for the season. He now owns the No. 1 and No. 3 rushing seasons by a QB in NFL history. The Ravens’ fifth consecutive game - four of which came against teams with losing records – gave them a AFC wild-card spot. Thanks, schedule makers!

*Rams 18, Cardinals 7.* With Jared Goff out with an injured finger, LAR’s offense was led by QB John Wolford, who came into the day with zero career passing attempts and left with 231 yds passing, a team-leading 56 yds rushing and his first career victory. Wolford started off rocky with a first-pass interception, but then steadied under HC Sean McVay’s excellent playcalling.

Without Murray for much of the game, the Cardinals had little offense, ending 8-8 for the season and missing the playoffs. They started the year a hot 5-2, but ended in disappointment with a subsequent 3-6 tail-off. This may or may not be future HoF’er Larry Fitzgerald’s last year, but despite the spectacular (and cheap) addition of the talented WR DeAndre Hopkins, Arizona’s offense didn’t consist of much beyond letting Murray run around in unscripted broken plays to try to score some points. Losing the last two games to back-up QBs really stung, and criticism is mounting of HC Kliff Kingsley over his lackadaisical playcalling, although he still has one year left on an expensive contract.

*Footballers 20, Eagles 14.* Washington’s win over the Philadelphia Eagles clinched a division title for the Footballers despite the team’s fairly pathetic 7-9 record. But there was plenty of mediocrity along the way. The Eagles effectively handed the Footballers the division by benching QB Jalen Hurts in the second half despite Philadelphia trailing by only 3 points at the time. The Eagles had already been eliminated from playoff contention, but using a game with major playoff implications for a division rival to get the backup QB Nate Sudfeld some playing time, did not appear popular among Eagles players, many of whom looked noticeably frustrated on the sideline.

The game was effectively decided by a neutral zone infraction on a fourth-down play with 2 minutes left, a perfect ending to a weird season for the NFC East.

*Giants 23, Cowboys 19.* The day started with the Giants pushing their way past the Dallas Cowboys by way of a brutal Andy Dalton interception in the game’s final two minutes. That opened the possibility for Big Blue to make the playoffs, especially after Giants RB Wayne Gallman recovered his own fumble in the closing minutes. Alas, it came to naught when the Eagles rolled over to surrender a win to Washington, giving the Footballers the AFC East division title in a season that none of the four teams seemed to have any interest in winning.

*Vikings 37, Lions 35.* Justin Jefferson’s outrageous rookie season included 88 catches for 1,400 yds and seven TDs. He broke Randy Moss’s franchise record for a rookie receiver, finishing less than 100 short of the 1,473 Bill Groman had for the AFL’s Houston Oilers in 1960. Still, one should keep in mind that Detroit’s defense was so bad this season that it allowed 6,716 total yds and 519 points, breaking franchise records set during the Lions’ winless season in 2008.

*Chargers 38, Chiefs 21.* It came against KC’s backups, but Chargers rookie QB Justin Herbert was awfully impressive in throwing for 302 yds and three TDs. Herbert was not even expected to start this season, but after being forced into duty in Week 2, he finished with 4,336 yds passing and a rookie record 31 passing TDs. His performance will not save Coach Anthony Lynn’s job, however. The Chargers are interviewing HC candidates, with Niners DC Robert Saleh among them.

*Raiders 32, Broncos 31.* This game did not involve the playoffs and was often fairly ugly, but it had plenty of offensive fireworks to offer. Denver took a late lead with a 92-yard TD pass from Drew Lock to Jerry Jeudy, who flew untouched through the entire Raiders’ secondary. Then LVegas took the lead back with a 1-yard Josh Jacobs TD run and a 2-point conversion with just 24 seconds remaining. The game finished in the only logical way: Maxx Crosby of the Raiders stretched high to block Brandon McManus’s attempt at a 63-yard FG.

*Patriots 28, Jets 14.* In what was Coach Adam Gase’s last game with the club, and might be Sam Darnold’s last as its starting QB, the Jets went into Q4 tied 14-14. Then they fell apart, allowing Cam Newton to throw a pair of game-sealing TD passes. New England came into the day with an NFL-low eight TD passes this season, but managed four - including one by a WR - against the Jets.


----------



## Lethe200

jerry old said:


> So playoff picks, or striaght to the Super Bowl
> NFC Saints or Packers
> AFC KC, but Ravens and Steelers are dangerous
> (Glad to see Brown in playoffs
> (We have members in and around Houston-What's wrong?)
> (Don't see Pats improving next year,  Buffalo appears to  be getting better and better)



Jerry,
I agree with your picks. Buffalo has been impressive in its wins but has faced weaker opponents than the Saints and Steelers. That said, here's the playoff schedule:

*Round 1 Playoff Matchups, 2020-21 season*
Packers and Chiefs have the only byes. All times EST.

*Saturday

Indianapolis Colts (11-5) at Buffalo Bills (13-3), 1:05 p.m., CBS*
The Colts only qualified for the playoffs because the Bills throttled the Miami Dolphins. Now they have to travel to Orchard Park, N.Y., for their own turn against the Bills’ well-rounded juggernaut. (Favored: Bills by 6.5)

*Los Angeles Rams (10-6) at Seattle Seahawks (12-4), 4:40 p.m., Fox*
The Rams are desperate to get Jared Goff back at quarterback after the surgery he had on the thumb of his throwing hand. John Wolford did a nice job filling in for Goff on Sunday against the Cardinals, but he is not a solution on the road in Seattle. Unfortunately, it isn’t considered likely. (Favored: Seahawks by 4.5)

*Tampa Bay Buccaneers (11-5) at Washington Football Team, 8:15 p.m., NBC*
Home teams always need to be taken seriously in the playoffs, even if it’s the sub-.500 Footballers, who only got here because every division gets a playoff team. (Favored: Buccaneers by 10.5)

*Sunday

Baltimore Ravens (11-5) at Tennessee Titans (11-5), 1:05 p.m., ESPN and ABC*
With powerful running games and quarterbacks who can take advantage of a stacked box to stretch the field, these teams are more similar than you might guess. (Favored: Ravens -3.5)

*Chicago Bears (8-8) at New Orleans Saints (12-4), 4:40 p.m., CBS, Nickelodeon and Prime Video*
Chicago should be thankful for the N.F.C. East, as without that division’s ineptitude, people would probably be focusing on the Bears’ making the playoffs without a winning record. (Favored: Saints -9.5)

*Cleveland Browns (11-5) at Pittsburgh Steelers (12-4), 8:15 p.m., NBC*
Cleveland was able to hold on for a win over Pittsburgh this week in Cleveland, but next week’s game in Pittsburgh could look significantly different with Ben Roethlisberger back under center for the Steelers. (Favored: Steelers -3.5)


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## jerry old

Playoff picks

Come on Brown fans, i know your out there!

Colts vs  Bills-Bills defense will eke out a victory

Rams vs Seahawks-Have to go with Russell

Orphans vs Bucs-Brady

Ravens vs Titans-I've ignored Titans, no particular reason, but know nothing about them, so I'll go with Ravens

Bears vs Saints-no fair, Bears should be playing Washington Orphans, Bears do have  a defense and their QB rises out of the ash now and again, but not Sunday.

Browns and Steelers-Steelers, regardless of how I'd rather see the Browns win


Super Bowl Winner: Cowboys


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## Lethe200

>>Bears vs Saints-no fair, Bears should be playing Washington Orphans,>>

LOL! Love it - so true, Jerry.

Re Cowboys: how long do you give Mike McCarthy before he gets fed up with Jerry's interference? I'm betting a couple of years more, at most.


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## Ken N Tx

The Zebra's tried to help the Colts win but they could not capitalize on the call..Great game..


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## JustBonee

jerry old said:


> Playoff picks
> 
> *Come on Brown fans, i know your out there!*
> 
> Colts vs  Bills-Bills defense will eke out a victory
> 
> Rams vs Seahawks-Have to go with Russell
> 
> Orphans vs Bucs-Brady
> 
> Ravens vs Titans-I've ignored Titans, no particular reason, but know nothing about them, so I'll go with Ravens
> 
> Bears vs Saints-no fair, Bears should be playing Washington Orphans, Bears do have  a defense and their QB rises out of the ash now and again, but not Sunday.
> 
> Browns and Steelers-Steelers, regardless of how I'd rather see the Browns win
> 
> 
> Super Bowl Winner: Cowboys




I will be watching that game tonight!  Go Browns!!


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## Ruthanne

Bonnie said:


> I will be watching that game tonight!  Go Browns!!


Yes, go Brownies!  They are winning right now; it's exciting to see them this good this year!


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## jerry old

Lethe200 said:


> Cowboys: how long do you give Mike McCarthy before he gets fed up with Jerry's interference? I'm betting a couple of years more, at most.


Might be quicker than we thought. 
Defensive coach and his assistant were fired today.  McCarthy brought the Defensive Coach Nolan to Dallas, and they have a long
history.
So, who fired the coaches, McCarthy of someone higher up   as if we had to ask.

Will watch Colts vs and Bills tomorrow, not that familiar with colts;
then last quarter of Settle and LA

Sunday, Ravens and Titans


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## Irwin

Good to see the Browns advancing to the next round!


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## Lethe200

*What We Learned From the NFL’s Wild-Card Weekend* Pt 1 of 2
Lamar Jackson finally won a playoff game, the Browns demolished the Steelers and Nickelodeon’s broadcast of a game for children offered a welcome distraction.
NY Times By Benjamin Hoffman Jan. 10, 2021 _(edited by lethe200)_

Here’s what we learned:

*Ravens 20, Titans 13*
It is time for a new Lamar Jackson narrative. It was hard to tell if the Baltimore Ravens were a top contender or a beneficiary of one of the NFL’s weakest schedules in the final five weeks of the regular season. And with consecutive seasons that each ended in a disappointing playoff loss, there were those who questioned whether Jackson’s run-heavy style could translate to postseason success. After watching Baltimore race for 236 yds on the ground in a win on the road against the Tennessee Titans on Sunday, those narratives can be retired. Baltimore won’t surprise anyone, but knowing what’s coming is a lot different from knowing how to stop it.

With his first playoff win and his team’s defense playing well, Jackson should finally be able to relax. That should terrify opponents, because Jackson, who rushed for 136 yds on Sunday and 143 in last year’s playoff loss to Tennessee, already owns two of the top three playoff rushing performances by a QB in NFL history, according to Pro Football Reference.

*Browns 50, Steelers 10*
The Browns know how to put on a show. In the team’s first playoff game in 18 years, Cleveland did not disappoint. The Browns ran up a shocking 28-0 lead over the Pittsburgh Steelers in Sunday’s first quarter before letting things get just close enough in the second half to make the fan base nervous. Cleveland ended up winning, 48-37, scoring more points in a playoff game than the team had since beating the Detroit Lions, 56-10, in the 1954 NFL championship game.

The fans who got nervous in the second half might want to keep breathing into paper bags: the Browns are on the road against Patrick Mahomes and the KC Chiefs in the divisional round.

*Saints 21, Bears 9*
Nickelodeon should broadcast a game every week. Keeping things interesting when a heavily favored team wins easily can be hard, but a broadcast on Nick aimed at children managed to do just that. The announcers explained the game at a base level, but had entertaining insights along the way, as when the former NFL player Nate Burleson described being tackled as feeling like “falling down wooden stairs.” As for the actual game, the New Orleans Saints barely broke a sweat while beating the Chicago Bears, 21-9. The only real misstep of the broadcast was a fan vote leading to Mitchell Trubisky, the losing QB, being named the game’s most valuable player. Over all, the innovations led to the least competitive game of the weekend being must-see TV.

*Buccaneers 31, Footballers 23*
Tom Brady is leaving no stone unturned. Brady, the Buccaneers QB (that still sounds weird), already had plenty of NFL records. But he broke one on Saturday that had lasted for 50 years, passing George Blanda to become the oldest player to throw a TD pass in a playoff game. Brady, at 43 years 159 days, threw two TD passes in TBay’s 31-23 win on Saturday over the Washington Football Team, and will most likely push the record further next weekend in the divisional round. As Drew Brees is the only other active QB in his 40s, and is potentially retiring after this season, Brady’s record - should he ever choose to stop playing - could be safe for quite some time.

Brady’s triumph led to jokes on social media after an NBC graphic showed how much younger Brady looks than grizzled old Blanda did in 1971. But Blanda’s fans still have some bragging rights: A versatile player for the Oakland Raiders, he not only had two TD passes in that AFC championship game against the Baltimore Colts, but he also kicked the extra point after both TDs and connected on a 48-yard field goal.

*Rams 30, Seahawks 20*
These are not the 2018 Los Angeles Rams. In the 2018 season, Coach Sean McVay used a groundbreaking offense - and a fairly mediocre defense - to lead the Rams to the Super Bowl. The script has officially been flipped, with Los Angeles going as far as its defense can take it. Facing the Seattle Seahawks, who finished eighth in the NFL in scoring, Aaron Donald and the Rams’ front seven put a ton of pressure on Russell Wilson, sacking him five times in the Rams’ 30-20 victory on Saturday. The Rams also showed an aggressive streak when cornerback Darious Williams burst through a pair of Seattle players at the line of scrimmage to intercept a pass by Wilson, returning it 42 yds for a TD.

Strong performances from the team’s defense and its rookie RB Cam Akers (28 carries for 131 yds and a TD) were particularly important since QB Jared Goff appeared limited after recent surgery on the thumb of his throwing hand. Backup QB John Wolford was taken to the hospital after a thump to the head, and is day to day. Aaron Donald suffered torn rib cartilage, which is not a good thing when he’ll be trying to keep Aaron Rodgers of the Packers from throwing TD passes next Saturday.

*Bills 27, Colts 24*
A 27-24 victory over the Indianapolis Colts on Saturday gave Buffalo its first playoff win since 1995. The game managed to show off the Bills’ strengths and weaknesses. QB Josh Allen (324 yds passing, 54 yds rushing, three total TDs) and WR Stefon Diggs (128 yds receiving and a TD) were dominant, and safety Micah Hyde saved the day with a late pass deflection, but alarm bells should be ringing that Buffalo’s defense allowed 472 yds of total offense and nearly gave up what had been a 24-10 lead in the fourth quarter. The Bills did not have a sack or a turnover in the game, and got almost no contribution from the team’s RBs. As good as Allen and Diggs are, the rest of the team will need to step up for this run to continue.


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From the NFL’s Wild-Card Weekend* Pt 2 of 2
NY Times By Benjamin Hoffman Jan. 10, 2021 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Additional thoughts:

The expanded playoffs are a major time investment. *As some feared, expanding the playoff field to 14 teams, from 12, led to an 8-8 squad - the Chicago Bears - qualifying for postseason play. In addition, the NFC East was won by the 7-9 Washington Football Team, leaving only five of the NFC’s entrants with winning records. But this year’s AFC provided a good argument for the format, because it allowed the formidable 11-5 Indianapolis Colts to qualify. The conference even had a team with a winning record - the 10-6 Miami Dolphins - that did not make the playoffs.

The ultimate goal of the Super Wild Card Weekend, however, was money. Games were broadcast across multiple networks and streaming platforms for more than 10 hours on both days. With the smaller in-person crowds, you could almost hear the league’s cash registers welcoming that boost in advertising revenue.

*This weekend, we said goodbye to the following teams:

The Seattle Seahawks: 12-4 | NFC West champions*
In the first half of the season, the Seahawks appeared to have a Super Bowl-quality offense and a high-school-level defense. Seattle ironed out many of its defensive woes, but Russell Wilson and the team’s offense were overwhelmed on Saturday - that happens a lot against the Los Angeles Rams’ underrated defense.

Where does that leave the Seahawks? If the Seattle Seahawks want to succeed in the playoffs, the team will need to give QB Russell Wilson more time to throw. They need to find upgrades on the offensive line to protect Wilson. Fan criticisms of Pete Carroll’s reluctance to let Russell Wilson loose seem justified. Early season games in which Seattle was more aggressive with their passing game, contrasted sharply with the more run-oriented playcalling in the last third of the season which produced far fewer points and more losses. Trying to ease pressure on Wilson with the running game didn’t work with the great Aaron Donald tearing up Seattle’s OL.

*The Pittsburgh Steelers: 12-4 | AFC North champions*
The dissection of the 2020 Steelers will take weeks rather than days, but the team being robbed of a true bye week thanks to Tennessee’s coronavirus outbreak early in the season should be on the list somewhere. Pittsburgh began the season 11-0, but injuries added up - particularly on defense - and the Steelers wore down, resulting in a 1-4 finish to the season and a humbling first-round exit.

No other playoff team this season has as big a conundrum going forward as the Steelers in terms of what the team will do with QB Ben Roethlisberger. The two-time Super Bowl winner threw for 501 yds in Sunday’s loss, but he also threw four costly interceptions. He turns 39 in March and while much of the team appears to be built for the future, Roethlisberger is increasingly looking like something from the team’s past.

*The Tennessee Titans: 11-5 | AFC South champions*
Derrick Henry had an incredible season, rushing for 2,027 yds and becoming the first player to repeat as the NFL’s rushing champion in more than a decade. A blend of his running and Ryan Tannehill’s passing led the Titans to the fourth-most points in the NFL While many will focus on Henry’s disappointing effort in Sunday’s loss, Tennessee’s biggest issue this season was its defense. The Titans need to better support Henry and Tannehill so that it’s not necessary that they score on every drive.

*The Indianapolis Colts: 11-5 | AFC Wild Card*
There were a lot of positives for the Colts this season. Some shrewd off-season moves led to its best record since 2014 - and just its second playoff appearance since then. Indianapolis is unlikely to get similar turn-back-the-clock performances from QB Philip Rivers and cornerback Xavier Rhodes going forward. But the team’s trading for defensive tackle DeForest Buckner should set the Colts up for more success next season, and rookie RB Jonathan Taylor stepped up to become a major force for the team’s offense.

*The Chicago Bears: 8-8 | NFC Wild Card*
What a weird season. Chicago got off to a superficially strong start, was badly exposed by a midseason losing streak, rallied to make the playoffs and then was overwhelmed by the New Orleans Saints. A No. 7 seed being crushed by a No. 2 seed isn’t exactly an endorsement of the expanded playoff structure, but the Bears could probably be a relevant team fairly quickly provided they admit Mitchell Trubisky is not their long-term answer at QB. Their defense remains good, but LB Khalil Mack is well off the pace he set with the Oakland Raiders from 2015-2017. Since joining the Bears with a massive contract, his # of tackles and sacks has been dropping steadily.

*The Washington Football Team: 7-9 | NFC East champions*
Laugh all you want about the team’s record - Washington matched the 2010 Seattle Seahawks for the worst record of a playoff team in the 16-game era - but the Footballers are walking away with their heads held high and their future looking bright. The rookie defensive end Chase Young is a top-shelf disrupter and poised to lead his unit into relevance for years. On offense, the team has found its answers at RB (Antonio Gibson) and WR (Terry McLaurin). And after a gutsy performance against TBay where he impressed with his arm and his legs, Taylor Heinicke should get some serious consideration as the team’s QB of the future. Heinicke was the fourth QB to start a game for Washington this season, and looked promising.


----------



## Lethe200

*The Divisional Round*
_The second round of the playoffs will have four games over two days. All TV times EST._

*Saturday:

Los Angeles Rams (10-6) at GBay Packers (13-3), 4:35 p.m., Fox*
The Rams defense is going to get a test against the Packers, who led the NFL in scoring this season. However, the Pack D is vulnerable to a good RB, and Rams rookie Cam Akers could have a career day.

The Rams did not emerge unscathed from their win over Seattle. The team lost a quarterback (Wolford), two key defenders, an offensive lineman, and even a running back. LB Aaron Donald is the most serious loss, but it looks like torn rib cartilage, no broken ribs; the team is hoping he’ll be ready to play on Saturday in GBay. They will need to contain GBay’s Davante Adams; he scored almost as many TDs this year (18) as the entire Rams receiving corps totaled (20). They’ll need to keep GBay under 30 points, and that may be difficult. (Early line: Packers -7)

*Baltimore Ravens (11-5) at Buffalo Bills (13-3), 8:15 p.m., NBC*
The Bills offense is a handful, particularly at home in Orchard Park, N.Y., but is their defense up to the challenge of slowing down the Ravens? Including their win over rival Tennessee in Round 1, the Ravens (12-5) have won six straight games going back to the beginning of December. The Bills (14-3) found themselves in a slugfest with the Indianapolis Colts on Saturday, escaping with a hard-fought, 27-24 win.

The two best QBs from 2018 class clash in this one. Lamar Jackson won the NFL MVP award last season and Josh Allen is probably going to finish as the runner up this year behind Aaron Rodgers. Jackson and Allen have emphatically claimed the top two spots when it comes to ranking all the quarterbacks from that class. Allen had a better season in 2020, finishing with 46 total touchdowns and nearly 5,000 total yards. Jackson had 3,762 total yards and 33 total touchdowns. The result of this game could very well come down to who plays better between the two. (Early line: Bills -2.5)

*Sunday:

Cleveland Browns (11-5) at KC Chiefs (14-2), 3:05 p.m., CBS*
Sunday’s game proved that Cleveland’s defense can disrupt a game with turnovers, but there is a big difference between capitalizing on unforced mistakes from Ben Roethlisberger and forcing mistakes from Patrick Mahomes. These teams last played Week 9 of the 2018 season, with Kansas City winning 37-21 in Cleveland.

That said, the Chiefs have often seemed to loaf through games they could have won easily, playing down to the level of their competition. Now that the chips are really on the table, can they rev up the jets after a two-week layover and storm the Browns’ suspiciously vulnerable D? If rookie RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire can play at 100%, it will prevent the Browns from doubling up on Kelce Travis and Tyreek Hill.

The trouble is, when Pittsburgh was down 28-0 to the Browns, that looked insurmountable. But Mahomes has proved too many times that 28 points to him is a mere bagatelle, when he starts firing those cannon passes downfield. (Early line: Chiefs -10)

*TBay Buccaneers (11-5) at New Orleans Saints (12-4), 6:40 p.m., Fox*
The Buccaneers are on a roll, but it is hard to forget the Saints beat them twice early on in the regular season, with a combined score of 72-26. Surprisingly, this is the first time the two Hall of Famer-level QBs have faced one another in a playoff game (the Saints wuz robbed in 2018 and possibly 2019 as well, by dubious officiating).

Not only are they the first over-40 QBs to face one another in a playoff game, their rivalry has actually spanned four decades. It now dates back to when Brady's Michigan Wolverines trounced Brees' Purdue Boilermakers in 1999.

Brees has actually won five of their seven career matchups in the NFL. Brees ranks No. 1 in league history in passing yardage. However, Brady ranks No. 1 in career touchdown passes and has the ultimate mic drop when it comes to Super Bowl rings (six to one). Whether the Saints offense can crank up early against the tough TBay defense, will probably decide the game. (Early line: Saints -3.5)


----------



## jerry old

Ravens vs Bills
If Lamar Jackson is in top form, Bills  defense is in trouble, can Jackson have another super  Sunday?
Bill coaches are studying, studying, 'How do we stop him?'
Pick-Bills on a very shaky pick  

Browns vs KC  Browns did well this season, they do not deserve a buzz saw like  Mahomes

Packers vs Rams  The evil Aaron Rogers will do evil to the RAms

Saint's vs Buc's  pull up a chair and watch Brady and Brees chunk the ball-Saints are better team=Saints


----------



## Lethe200

Thanks for your thoughts, Jerry! Here's mine:

I'm ok with the *Saints *or *Browns *winning it. Brees deserves it but I sincerely doubt he can carry the team. Breaking 11 ribs/punctured lung is just not something one can recover from in 1 month when we're talking hard-hitting Ds every week. He is looking tired and old, clearly not even close to 90% let alone 100%. His throws are noticeably weaker. Kills me because I do honestly believe they could have won it all in 2018 if the officials hadn't been blind in both eyes and busy looking God knows where. 

If Brees can stay upright, they can beat the Bucs. The Saints have a great pass rush, and they owned the Bucs in previous mtgs. Brady and Brees (and Rivers) are the last stalwarts of old-style Hall of Fame QBs. The classic pocket passer is a dead dog in today's overwhelmed OLs. If your QB can't move, he'll get creamed on every play. Tampa looks great until you realize it has faced three of the top five defensive lines in terms of PFF grade this season (Saints, Bears and Rams) on four occasions, and it did not go well for the GOAT. Over those four weeks, the Bucs OL gave up a pressure rate that would rank in the bottom five of the NFL, and Brady had his three lowest-graded games of the season over that stretch. 

The *Browns *are everybody's sentimental favorite. It hasn't been that long since they went 1-15 in 2016 and then the humiliating 0-16 in 2017! But it'll be a miracle if Baker Mayfield doesn't revert to type at some point during the next game or two, and when that happens the Browns are dead ducks. They can't win without him playing conservatively, if not excitingly. Keep an eye on the Browns OL - it's considered the best in the NFL. It's why people are so frustrated with Mayfield's erraticness. He's got the #1 protection vs pressures.

I somehow can't warm up to the *Bills*. I keep trying, but they just don't do it for me. Josh Allen is what we (Niners fans) had hoped Kaep and Garoppolo would become but have not. Iffy in the first two years, Allen has finally become a very good QB and barring injury, will keep improving. But both divisions are fairly weak, although Ravens QB Lamar Jackson is, I think, the better of the two 2018 draftees right now. 

The Bills rank higher than the *Ravens *on offense, but the Ravens rank MUCH higher on defense. They ended as the #2 D after the Rams, who were #1. The weather will be about 10 degrees colder in Buffalo so not a huge difference, although the ball will not travel quite as far. D wins playoffs/SBs, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Ravens had a better-than-even chance despite being on the road. 

It all depends on who scores first. The Ravens really need to keep the Bills O contained on the first couple of drives. If the Bills are behind, they will struggle to catch up. Past Stefon Diggs they have a good corps of receivers but nobody even close to Diggs - he is Allen's preferred target 80% of the time. The reverse is also true: the Ravens struggle when behind, because Lamar is pretty much their entire offense. Even if they win, I don't see them getting past KC. KC is the only team that has a perfect win record vs Jackson.

The *Rams *have that #1 D and a good secondary to boot. But they're stuck with Goff in the next game, and so the matchup becomes, can the Rams pass rush fluster Aaron Rodgers enough to offset Goff's mediocrity? With Aaron Donald impaired by a strained rib muscle, it'll be tough. Donald will play, but maybe not every down, and you can't give Rodgers opportunities like that and not expect him to exploit them with his fav receiver. 

The *Packers *D is suspect, ranked middling by 2020 stats, and the Rams' mix of cheap RBs has proven very effective. The Packers have a suspect OL defending Rodgers as their best interior OL tore his MCL in week 16. Since I'm not a fan of the Rams but am a fan of the Pack, I'm rooting for Rodgers. GBay is the poor man's team in the NFL's BIg Money League, and they do more with less $$$ than any other. There are less than 22,000 residents of Green Bay WI, and I can assure you it was never a fancy rich town (they are the only publicly owned team remaining).

I love the *Chiefs*. I have watched Mahomes since he came into the league in 2017 and called him a future Hall of Famer after the third game. If he can avoid injury he will rewrite the record books. He showed phenomenal field vision from the very start of his career, and I can't tell you how rare that is. Josh Allen taking 3 yrs to mature is typical - Rodgers, Favre, Montana, Rivers, Brees, were the same as Allen. In five decades I've only seen maybe 4 or 5 rookie QBs who could do it. And his ability to throw off-balance is amazing. His reaction time is blindingly fast. 

The biggest weakness of the Chiefs is the run defense. They lost some valuable players to FA and their D is not as top-notch as it was last year. Curiously, this would give the Ravens the best chance vs the Chiefs.  Or the Rams, but I doubt LAR could get past GBay unless Rodgers gets hurt. 

This is the last or next-to-last year KC can keep the core of their team intact to win a SB. FA, draft parity, and schedules will inevitably drag them down to mortal levels - a playoff team, but not a certainty to win the SB. At this point, with two outstanding WRs, a good RB (albeit he is injured, we'll see how he holds up) and the hands-down best QB in the game today, KC remains the team everybody will have to knock off to claim the Lombardi Trophy.


----------



## jerry old

Lethe 200 post emphasizes the importance of the quarterbacks.
You have 22 men on a team, but who wins or loses depends on one man

So, today we get to see the evil Aaron Rodgers destroy the Rams.
(Poor Rams, all that money for Goff who went south)
(I would like to see the Ram D' 'eat Rodgers up,' but i don't think it will happen.)

Then we get to see Josh Allen go tick for tat  with Lamar Jackson/
Josh is in trouble, the Ravens blitz will eat him up.
Jackson, how will anyone stop Jackson?

(The best team in the NFL remains the Chiefs, but football often ends in the best team not winning.)


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## jerry old

The evil Aron Rodgers prevailed.

The game plan of the Ravens:  I never figured it out.  Yes, Lamar Jackson can run and pass, but not on every play.
The Ravens stuffed their own run game without even trying--most peculiar.

Bills played well, defense said no-and  offense did very well, especially Josh...

(Bills fans have something on their heads like the cheese head of Green Bay,
I couldn't make out what it was, was that supposed to be a orange bison?)


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## jerry old

`
Lethe200, DonM, you'll will forgive me if I root for Cleveland.
The Brown's vast improvement this year, they are rewarded by being stuck into a meat grinder (Chiefs).
That's not fair.

Bonnie, Marer5656 and Ruthanne,  rooting for the Brown's is going to be a three hour job-good luck.
I will root for Browns, but I don't think it will help.

(Patriot fans, looks like a long winter is in store for the Pats, it seems strange not to see them in the playoffs.
Go Cowboys)


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## jerry old

These two threads are confusing me:
Football Season
2020 Football


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## Lethe200

I started the 2020 Football thread when people started to include soccer, and then it segued for a while _way _off-base into individual disagreements. I got tired of having to skip through multiple posts that had nothing to do with American football.

Didn't mean to confuse you, Jerry!


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## jerry old

Brown's did well, an exciting game. 
Mahomes being absent in 4th quarter effected score, but the Browns did well. 
I got interested-didn't intend to, but I watched the whole darn game-really hurt my housework.

Now we can watch the Geriatric Bowl 
Have to root for Brees, 
Brady has had his time in the sun, Brees plays in obscurity down there in an almost foreign country.

They both have good-to moderate defenses, might be a much lower scoring game than we anticipated.

(That's the job of the coaches, their supposed to have developed a game plan to that the other team=we will see.


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## jerry old

Lethe200 said:


> I started the 2020 Football thread when people started to include soccer, and then it segued for a while _way _off-base into individual disagreements. I got tired of having to skip through multiple posts that had nothing to do with American football.
> 
> Didn't mean to confuse you, Jerry!


Watched a Rugby game, rough.  However, there is no regular schedule when they will be on 'tv.  
Apparently, there a 'filler' program.
They play rough and blood one another, American audiences might fine them of merit.....
Rugby is certainly better that soccer
*
Neither will match Steelers and Ravens games*

We have two more football weekends, then a lo
ng. long drought-what are we going to do?


----------



## jerry old

Le


Lethe200 said:


> I started the 2020 Football thread when people started to include soccer, and then it segued for a while _way _off-base into individual disagreements. I got tired of having to skip through multiple posts that had nothing to do with American football.
> 
> Didn't mean to confuse you, Jerry!


Lethe 200, football thread should be about football.
We might sneak a bit of baseball in, especially during world series
Soccer and other sports--No!
I''m surprised someone didn't post wresting.
Archery, sleet-mo---football only.


----------



## J.B Books

jerry old said:


> The evil Aron Rodgers prevailed.
> 
> The game plan of the Ravens:  I never figured it out.  Yes, Lamar Jackson can run and pass, but not on every play.
> The Ravens stuffed their own run game without even trying--most peculiar.
> 
> Bills played well, defense said no-and  offense did very well, especially Josh...
> 
> (Bills fans have something on their heads like the cheese head of Green Bay,
> I couldn't make out what it was, was that supposed to be a orange bison?)


The Bills fans were wearing the drum portion of a Buffalo wing on their their heads.

Wings are made of two pieces. The drum and the split. The drum portion makes for a better foam rubber hat. LOL.

They are orange because of the hot sauce.

Ever eat Buffalo wings?


----------



## jerry old

J.B Books said:


> The Bills fans were wearing the drum portion of a Buffalo wing on their their heads.
> 
> Wings are made of two pieces. The drum and the split. The drum portion makes for a better foam rubber hat. LOL.
> 
> They are orange because of the hot sauce.
> 
> Ever eat Buffalo wings?


Thanks, i could not   figure out what they were;  it look like road kill had been made into a head covers.
I likes the dog pound rubber masks by  the browns in the eighties.
The hog head coverings wore by the Wasginton Skins (the hogs) in the eighties were gauche.


----------



## jerry old

Brees was off. you cannot keep turning the ball over and win,  but he brought respectability to the Saints-so he deserves respect during his tenure.
Brees is going to retire after this season-right?

Brady did not make mistakes, that won the ball game.


----------



## Don M.

The Chiefs beat the Browns....barely.  Mahomes, the quarterback, took a nasty hit early in the 3rd quarter, and sustained a concussion.   He has taken a lot of risks in recent games, and it may have finally caught up with him.  It will probably be a couple of days before his prognosis is known, but if he is out for the season, that may be the end of this years spectacular Chiefs run.


----------



## Irwin

Mahomes didn't look like he got hit that hard, but he definitely got his bell rung. I was a bit scared for him when he got up and couldn't get his bearings.


----------



## jerry old

The NFL owners have meet to form a plan to get the Chiefs moved to Siberia, especially Mahone,  their  just too darn good!


----------



## jerry old

Okay, Packers and Chiefs in Super Bowl


----------



## Marie5656

jerry old said:


> Okay, Packers and Chiefs in Super Bowl



Go Bills!!!!!!


----------



## moviequeen1

I live in Buffalo,NY,I stopped watching/following the Buffalo Bills yrs ago,but I'm happy for all the long time die hard fans who have continued to root for them,the team is doing well
Its put a positive light on the city after so much disappointment over the yrs e.g losing 4 straight Super Bowls
As for 'Buffalo Wings',I don't like them they are over rated.I prefer'beef on weck'


----------



## J.B Books

moviequeen1 said:


> I live in Buffalo,NY,I stopped watching/following the Buffalo Bills yrs ago,but I'm happy for all the long time die hard fans who have continued to root for them,the team is doing well
> Its put a positive light on the city after so much disappointment over the yrs e.g losing 4 straight Super Bowls
> As for 'Buffalo Wings',I don't like them they are over rated.I prefer'beef on weck'


I grew up east of Buffalo. On Lake Ontario. Closer to Rochester. (Which explains the hockey and lacrosse references in a different post.)
Die hard Bills fan. A friend of mine played for the Bills.
I would like for them to win it all this year.
I love buffalo wings! Problem is that most places don't know how to make them.
Rule #1. Buffalo wings are NOT breaded.

For those that don't know, "beef on a weck" is a roast beef sandwich on a kummelweck roll.


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## Marie5656

J.B Books said:


> For those that don't know, "beef on a weck" is a roast beef sandwich on a kummelweck roll.


*A great sandwich.  I have lived in Western NY all my life. Born in Batavia, moved to Rochester and now back in Batavia.  Have a small diner here that makes them great.*


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From the NFL’s Divisional Round * Pt 1 of 2
Buffalo rode its defense, GBay thrived on offense and TBay let Drew Brees beat himself. KC, which lost Patrick Mahomes to a concussion, simply survived.
Washington Post by Adam and NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman
January 17/18, 2021 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Here’s what we learned:*
Home teams won three of four games during the NFL’s divisional round, but there was plenty of fretting along the way. The Buffalo Bills rode their defense to a win, the GBay Packers relied on their offense and the heavily favored KC Chiefs, who lost QB Patrick Mahomes to a concussion, mostly just survived. The weekend closed with a hyped battle in New Orleans between NFL legends - Tom Brady of the TBay Buccaneers and Drew Brees of the Saints - that resulted in the round’s lone upset.

*The Winners’ Bracket

Green Bay Packers over Los Angeles Rams*
Thanks to GBay’s 32-18 win over the Los Angeles Rams in Saturday’s divisional round game, the Packers will host the NFC championship game against the TBay Buccaneers next Sunday - the 10th time in franchise history that GBay has played a game with a trip to the Super Bowl at stake. Most of those games, though, were on the road, with this being just the fourth time Lambeau Field has hosted such a game. The last resulted in a loss to the Giants in the 2007 season. Back then Aaron Rodgers, still serving as Brett Favre’s understudy, watched from the sideline.

The Packers’ raucous fans will not have much chance to affect next week’s game - GBay allowed only 8,456 people to attend the divisional round game. But Wisconsin’s weather could play a role. Weather.com’s 10-day forecast is calling for possible snow on Sunday, with temperatures in the 20s. That’s cold, but by Packers standards it doesn’t qualify as particularly harsh.

*Tampa Bay Buccaneers over New Orleans Saints*
A win is a win is a win, but TBay had some red flags in its 30-20 victory over the New Orleans Saints Sunday. Tom Brady completed just one pass that traveled more than 20 yds in the air - he completed just 18 of 33 passes over all. And while the Buccaneers’ defense took advantage of Drew Brees’s mistakes to produce three interceptions, it did so with minimal pass rush, as TBay had no sacks and just three QB hits.

It will be the 14th conference title game Brady has played in and his ninth in 10 years. He has won 32 playoff games – double Joe Montana, who ranks second on that list.

Next week’s game will come against a future Hall of Famer in his prime (Aaron Rodgers), rather than one who was running on fumes (Brees). If Brady isn’t more aggressive, and TBay’s defense doesn’t create more pressure than it did this week, the Packers could have a clear path to the Super Bowl.

For the past four seasons, the Saints have maxed out their salary cap to build contenders, content to pay a financial penalty in future years. The future has arrived without the payoff they wanted. The Saints won 11, 13, 13 and 12 regular season games over the past four seasons. All it got them ultimately was one appearance in the NFC title game and three home playoff losses.

For unlucky Saints fans, it’s hard to take in the real possibility this disappointment was Brees’ swan song. Certainly one of, if not the, best player in the history of the New Orleans’ franchise, Brees seemed to show the effects of the gruesome injuries of Weeks 9 and 10, in which he ended up with eleven broken ribs and a punctured lung. Observers might have noticed that after Jameis Winston tossed a 56-yarder to Tre'Quan Smith for a go-ahead score in mid-Q2, Brees could not lift his arms straight up in the air in celebration of the trick play.


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From the NFL’s Divisional Round * Pt 2 of 2
Washington Post by Adam and NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman
January 17/18, 2021 _(edited by lethe200)_

*Kansas City Chiefs over Cleveland Browns*
The boldest decision of the playoffs sealed the Chiefs’ harrowing victory, and it came from the league’s most aggressive coach, HC Andy Reid. The Chiefs faced fourth and inches at midfield with about a minute left after backup QB Chad Henne’s third-and-14 scramble fell just short. When they lined up to go, especially with Henne in shotgun, it seemed like a ruse to draw the Browns offside.

It was not. Henne rolled right, Tyreek Hill ran a quick out, and Henne delivered a quick pass that allowed the Chiefs to end the game in victory formation.

The play was a snapshot of how much in-game coaching matters. How many coaches would have called a pass play on fourth and inches … from shotgun … with a backup quarterback … when not getting it would have meant the opponent was already in range for a Hail Mary? Surely, most would have punted. Reid saw an opportunity to end the game, and he wasn’t afraid to take it.

The reason the Chiefs could end the game on that possession also owed to coaching. Browns Coach Kevin Stefanski entered the endgame with only one timeout because he lost one on a no-chance challenge and wasted another trying to prevent a delay of game.

Forced into action after Mahomes’s concussion, 35-year-old Henne showed why Reid has confidence in him. His performance wasn’t flawless - Henne threw an ugly interception in the end zone. But Reid’s decision to pass on fourth-and-short to ice the game, rather than running or punting the ball away, was both smart playcalling and good player execution.

There is no question that KC is hoping Mahomes can be back for next week’s game against the Buffalo Bills. He is currently “day by day”. But his injury - and injuries sustained by Lamar Jackson of the Baltimore Ravens and Aaron Donald of the Los Angeles Rams in their divisional round games - showed just how precarious each game can be in the NFL. Having a reliable backup can be the difference between winning and losing.

*Buffalo Bills over Baltimore Ravens*
Through the 2020 regular season, the Bills’ defense was routinely overwhelmed, leaving an emerging star QB Josh Allen and the team’s much-improved offense to bail out that unit. But Saturday those roles reversed. The Bills’ D was at its best, and cornerback Taron Johnson delivered the key play of the game with an incredible 101-yard interception return for a TD. Johnson’s pick-6 should result in his never buying another drink in Buffalo.

The Ravens need to help Lamar Jackson in the passing game. Their receivers don’t scare anyone, and as Jeff Zrebiec of the Athletic noted, the Ravens’ route concepts can be stale and predictable. These are the same criticisms leveled against Ravens OC Greg Roman when he was at San Francisco, before the Niners hired Kyle Shanahan as HC. Baltimore is a well-run franchise with steps it must take to truly become a Super Bowl-caliber team.

The Bills are back in the AFC championship game for the first time since the 1993 season. But they face an even stiffer test next week in the form of KC, assuming Mahomes exits concussion protocol.

*The Losers’ Bracket

New Orleans Saints*
This season will be nothing more than a footnote for Drew Brees. He completed only 19 of 34 passes for 134 yds, with one TD and three critical interceptions as the New Orleans Saints lost to the TBay Buccaneers, 30-20. All three interceptions led to TDs by the Bucs. Brees was limited all season - exacerbated by 11 broken ribs - and he was a shell of his former self on Sunday. He did not attempt a single pass of 20 or more yds on Sunday and his passer rating of 38.1 was his worst mark in 18 career playoff games. A 13-time Pro Bowler and one-time Super Bowl-winner, Brees would retire as the NFL’s career leader in passing yds.

*Cleveland Browns*
A few mistakes can spoil a dream season. The Cleveland Browns had the franchise’s best season since it was resurrected in 1999, and the team’s defense, its running game and even QB Baker Mayfield should provide fans plenty of optimism going into next season. But Cleveland had a near-TD turn into a turnover thanks to a confusing rule and the team’s wasting two timeouts in the second half - one on a challenge of a play that wasn’t particularly close and one when there was miscommunication at the line of scrimmage - lowered the Browns’ chances of getting the ball back one last time when trailing by 5 in the game’s closing minutes.

The Browns and their fans will probably view this as a lost opportunity to knock off the vaunted KC Chiefs - the injury sustained by Mahomes had seemed to kick the door wide open - but the franchise should instead see this as the start of what could be a strong AFC rivalry.

*Los Angeles Rams*
The Rams’ defense will go as far as the great All-Pro DT Aaron Donald can take it. Los Angeles surged back into contention in 2020 thanks to its defense. The Rams were not only the #1 overall defense in the NFL - both total yardage and scoring - but they showed balance, finishing as a top-three unit in both run and pass yds allowed. A Pro Bowler every year since he was drafted in 2014, and 2020’s PFWA Defensive Player of the Year for second time in three years, Donald anchors the team in all facets of the game.

Donald insisted a rib injury from last week was behind him, but it was clear from the start that was untrue. He was on the field for 40 of the Rams’ 75 defensive snaps and he was limited to one tackle and one pressure. His lack of pressure had a cascading effect for the rest of the Rams’ defenders, who did not produce a sack and hit Rodgers just once all game.

Struggling against Rodgers hardly makes the Rams unique, but the final numbers were stark: It was just the second time all season that Los Angeles allowed more than 30 points, and it was the team’s worst effort of the season against both the pass (296 yds) and the run (188 yds).

*Baltimore Ravens*
The Ravens are familiar with Murphy’s Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. Baltimore got an extreme lesson in that during Saturday’s 17-3 loss to the Bills.

Justin Tucker, the game’s most reliable kicker from inside 50 yds, missed two FG attempts of less than 50 yds in Saturday’s loss to Buffalo. In nine seasons for Baltimore, and two college seasons at Texas, the steady kicker had never missed two such kicks in a game.

Lamar Jackson, a QB celebrated for efficient passing and thrilling runs, had the third-worst passer rating of his 41 career starts (including postseason) while gaining just 34 yds rushing. He had a mistake in the red zone turn into a 101-yard pick-6 and he had a bad snap get away from him, leading to a hard hit that gave him a concussion.

Tucker and Jackson were hardly alone in their misery. Mark Andrews, one of the game’s best TEs, caught just four of the 11 passes thrown his way, dropping at least one pass that looked like a sure TD. He was also Jackson’s target on the play that turned into a pick-6. Only Patrick Mekari had a worse day. A second-year player out of Cal, Mekari inherited the starting center job from an ineffective Matt Skura during the regular season. On Saturday, two of Mekari’s snaps resulted in fumbles - one of which was the play in which Jackson was concussed.

*Next Sunday’s Schedule*
With or without Mahomes, the Chiefs will host the Bills, who are trying to make their first Super Bowl in a generation against the team that won it last year. If Mahomes plays, championship weekend will be a contrast in quarterbacks.

The AFC would feature Mahomes and Josh Allen, passers aged 25 and 24 who possess extreme arm strength and uncanny athleticism. The NFC will have Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers, ages 43 and 37. They are the best quarterbacks of the past dozen years, inarguably the most successful quarterback ever and one of the most talented.

*NFC Championship Game: TBay Buccaneers at GBay Packers, 3:05 p.m., Fox*
TBay has been on a roll for the last two months and GBay had the NFL’s best offense this season. How the Buccaneers deal with Wisconsin’s freezing weather could play an enormous role.

*AFC Championship Game: Buffalo Bills at KC Chiefs, 6:40 p.m., CBS*
Patrick Mahomes felt well enough to tweet after Sunday’s game, but KC’s fate rests on whether the team’s starting QB is cleared from the NFL’s concussion protocol.


----------



## jerry old

Yes, it's time for Mr. Brees to go to the house and pursue other endeavors
Poor guy, labored in almost obscurity all those years with the Saints.
He did well, never receiving the press he should have--Hats off to Mr/ Brees/

Tom needs to hang it up, his arm is gone, but his mere presence makes the other players confident they can win.
Don't know, suppose Brady's presence next season  will be a front office decision.
Brady won't hang around as a back up QB-will he?

There was no one like Staubach for the Cowboy's and there was no one like Brady.
Go Bucks, one last hurrah for the old man.


----------



## jerry old

Good    stuff Lethe200. the best team does not always win.
What would KC be with Mahones on the bench?
Well, it gives us something to talk about in the 'Hot Stove League.'

Still wonder why the coaches of the Ravens could not figure out Buffalo'os defense.
depending on Jackson as a running back.  So the coaches (game plan) of the Bills deserves praise.

What would LA have done with Donald at 100%?
What if Goff returned to his old form?
What if....
That's why they play the game, stupid!

Beware of the evil Aaron Rodgers, this 37 year old is a bad man.


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## jerry old

Aaron Rodgers, the evil Aaron Rodgers, the Cowboy Killer, will match his skill against a fading Brady.
Brady's   passes still 'Zip,' but not very far.  The Arm is gone, he never was a runner, and he has no BB to draw up a game plan.
Goodby Mr. Brady, we knew you well.


----------



## J.B Books

Bills!


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## jerry old

J.B Books said:


> Bills!


Cowboys, wait'll next year or the year after, or the year after than,,,,,maby 2030?


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## Lethe200

I thought this writer's predictions were right on target:

*NFL conference championship picks: Brady v Rodgers, and a Chiefs shock*
Two decorated veterans face off at Lambeau Field, while the best of the next generation play in KC. Who makes the Super Bowl?
London Guardian U.S. by Tom Lutz 22 Jan 2021

*TBay Buccaneers at GBay Packers
Sunday, 3.05pm ET 
What the Buccaneers need to do to win:* Surprisingly for two QBs who have ruled the NFL for much of the century, there isn’t a lot of history to go on between Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers – this will be only their fourth meeting as starters. Brady won their previous game, a 38-10 beatdown in Week 6 of this season, when the defense harried Rodgers all day, sacking him five times. Rodgers, who has been mostly flawless since, is unlikely to be bullied again though. So TBay may have to beat the Packers in a shootout, hoping their formidable offensive weapons all click at once. That will put pressure on backup Bucs guard Aaron Stinnie, who made his first ever NFL start against the Saints last week (and did pretty well).

*What the Packers needs to do to win:* Like the Buccaneers, the Packers have a weakened offensive line. It held up well enough against the best defense in the league, the Rams, last week but Los Angeles’ biggest threat, Aaron Donald, was hampered by a rib injury. Rodgers has been so good this year that it’s hard to see him being outscored by the Buccaneers if he gets enough protection. Some have argued that the frigid Lambeau Field will hand the Packers a big advantage over a warm-weather team like TBay. But Tom Brady played plenty of games in the New England winter and that seemed to work out fine for him.

*Key player: Rob Gronkowski, TE, TBay Buccaneers.* Gronk’s best days are behind him and he is no longer the unstoppable force he was a few years ago. So his importance in this game lies not so much in his abilities but who he matches up against. If the Packers have one obvious weakness, it’s their linebackers. Look for Brady to go back to a familiar safety blanket and find Gronk in the middle of the field as this game goes on.

*Prediction: Packers.* The Buccaneers struggled to shake off 7-9 Washington in the wildcard round and were helped by a series of Drew Brees turnovers against the Saints last week. Brady and his new teammates have gelled much more than they did at the start of the season, but are still not the threat they should be, given their talent. I don’t think they’re at the level where they can beat Rodgers and Davante Adams this time around.

*Buffalo Bills at KC Chiefs
Sunday, 6.40pm ET 
What the Bills need to do to win:* The Chiefs can do so much damage, so quickly, through the air with the likes of Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill that encouraging them to go to the run game, perhaps by not packing the box, is one option. Josh Allen has evolved beyond recognition in a short space of time, partly because of the array of weapons he has, from the almost impossible to cover Stefon Diggs to Cole Beasley to TE Dawson Knox. The Bills will need to keep that chemistry going on Sunday.

*What the Chiefs need to do to win*: As mentioned above, Allen’s progress this season has been extraordinary and he is no longer the turnover machine he was. But he still makes mistakes and the Chiefs’ standout defensive talents, whether it is Tyrann Matthieu or Chris Jones, are capable of forcing him into making errors. If the Bills do manage to make the Chiefs turn to the run game, the fitness of Clyde Edwards-Helaire, returning from injury, could be telling.

*Key player: Patrick Mahomes, QB, KC Chiefs.* Mahomes is the best player in the NFL, so he is the most important player in any game he plays. But his impact on Sunday feels particularly telling. Mahomes was forced out of last week’s win over the Browns due to concussion – and he has been limited in practice – but he will almost certainly start. The question is what version of Mahomes plays. The concussion doesn’t appear to have been too damaging (at least in the short-term) but more worrying for the Chiefs is the fact that Mahomes is also suffering from turf toe. Mahomes is no Lamar Jackson, he won’t scorch you for 50 yds, but his mobility and ability to beat the rush is an important part of his game.

*Prediction: Bills.* A fully fit Mahomes beats Allen 90% of the time. But a limited Mahomes, who has been very good rather than great in his recent games, is a different proposition. The lingering effects of the concussion and his reduced mobility will hand this one to the Bills … just.


----------



## J.B Books

Lethe200 said:


> I thought this writer's predictions were right on target:
> 
> *NFL conference championship picks: Brady v Rodgers, and a Chiefs shock*
> Two decorated veterans face off at Lambeau Field, while the best of the next generation play in KC. Who makes the Super Bowl?
> London Guardian U.S. by Tom Lutz 22 Jan 2021
> 
> *TBay Buccaneers at GBay Packers
> Sunday, 3.05pm ET
> What the Buccaneers need to do to win:* Surprisingly for two QBs who have ruled the NFL for much of the century, there isn’t a lot of history to go on between Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers – this will be only their fourth meeting as starters. Brady won their previous game, a 38-10 beatdown in Week 6 of this season, when the defense harried Rodgers all day, sacking him five times. Rodgers, who has been mostly flawless since, is unlikely to be bullied again though. So TBay may have to beat the Packers in a shootout, hoping their formidable offensive weapons all click at once. That will put pressure on backup Bucs guard Aaron Stinnie, who made his first ever NFL start against the Saints last week (and did pretty well).
> 
> *What the Packers needs to do to win:* Like the Buccaneers, the Packers have a weakened offensive line. It held up well enough against the best defense in the league, the Rams, last week but Los Angeles’ biggest threat, Aaron Donald, was hampered by a rib injury. Rodgers has been so good this year that it’s hard to see him being outscored by the Buccaneers if he gets enough protection. Some have argued that the frigid Lambeau Field will hand the Packers a big advantage over a warm-weather team like TBay. But Tom Brady played plenty of games in the New England winter and that seemed to work out fine for him.
> 
> *Key player: Rob Gronkowski, TE, TBay Buccaneers.* Gronk’s best days are behind him and he is no longer the unstoppable force he was a few years ago. So his importance in this game lies not so much in his abilities but who he matches up against. If the Packers have one obvious weakness, it’s their linebackers. Look for Brady to go back to a familiar safety blanket and find Gronk in the middle of the field as this game goes on.
> 
> *Prediction: Packers.* The Buccaneers struggled to shake off 7-9 Washington in the wildcard round and were helped by a series of Drew Brees turnovers against the Saints last week. Brady and his new teammates have gelled much more than they did at the start of the season, but are still not the threat they should be, given their talent. I don’t think they’re at the level where they can beat Rodgers and Davante Adams this time around.
> 
> *Buffalo Bills at KC Chiefs
> Sunday, 6.40pm ET
> What the Bills need to do to win:* The Chiefs can do so much damage, so quickly, through the air with the likes of Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill that encouraging them to go to the run game, perhaps by not packing the box, is one option. Josh Allen has evolved beyond recognition in a short space of time, partly because of the array of weapons he has, from the almost impossible to cover Stefon Diggs to Cole Beasley to TE Dawson Knox. The Bills will need to keep that chemistry going on Sunday.
> 
> *What the Chiefs need to do to win*: As mentioned above, Allen’s progress this season has been extraordinary and he is no longer the turnover machine he was. But he still makes mistakes and the Chiefs’ standout defensive talents, whether it is Tyrann Matthieu or Chris Jones, are capable of forcing him into making errors. If the Bills do manage to make the Chiefs turn to the run game, the fitness of Clyde Edwards-Helaire, returning from injury, could be telling.
> 
> *Key player: Patrick Mahomes, QB, KC Chiefs.* Mahomes is the best player in the NFL, so he is the most important player in any game he plays. But his impact on Sunday feels particularly telling. Mahomes was forced out of last week’s win over the Browns due to concussion – and he has been limited in practice – but he will almost certainly start. The question is what version of Mahomes plays. The concussion doesn’t appear to have been too damaging (at least in the short-term) but more worrying for the Chiefs is the fact that Mahomes is also suffering from turf toe. Mahomes is no Lamar Jackson, he won’t scorch you for 50 yds, but his mobility and ability to beat the rush is an important part of his game.
> 
> *Prediction: Bills.* A fully fit Mahomes beats Allen 90% of the time. But a limited Mahomes, who has been very good rather than great in his recent games, is a different proposition. The lingering effects of the concussion and his reduced mobility will hand this one to the Bills … just.


Go Bills!


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## Nosy Bee-54

I think there's usually one upset. So I think the Bills will pull it off.


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## jerry old

PC has been down, did not get to post picks for today.
At Present Buc's are leading by 8 points with two minutes to go.
I had picked Packers by 7.

It is kind'a neat that an old man may get into the Super Bowl.
With two minutes Packer's kicked a field goal, really thought they would go for touchdown on forth down.

Going to have to wait to see who win games before I post this....
Buc's win -still don't understand why Packer's didn't go for it on fourth down?

Anytime you can get a quarterback that can take you to the super bowl is an excellent, excellent move.


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## jerry old

Chiefs should win with no problem: however, press has made much of possible lingering effects of  Mahomes concussion.
I don't accept that, Mahomes   will be his usual self.


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## J.B Books

jerry old said:


> Chiefs should win with no problem: however, press has made much of possible lingering effects of  Mahomes concussion.
> I don't accept that, Mahomes   will be his usual self.


Bills will win


----------



## CindyLouWho




----------



## Don M.

The Chiefs are headed for the Super Bowl again.  Buffalo started off strong, but the Chiefs soon took over, and won with a nice margin.  The best part of the game, IMO, was seeing Mahomes showing no after affects of his concussion.


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## J.B Books

wishful thinking on my part


----------



## Furryanimal

So Tampa get to play a Super Bowl at home but hindsight is wonderful.

If the Packers had not deferred Tampa wouldn’t have been able to score straight from the kick off.We can never know if that would have led to a different game.
And should GB have gone for the TD late in the game on fourth down?If they had scored would still have needed two to tie...and if that failed they still had get the ball back.
Which they didn’t after getting the FG.
But that opening drive defined the game for me...it pretty much decided it.
Another disappointing championship game for this Packers fan.
But now I hope the Bucs do it.Being a Brady fan.


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## JustBonee

Was lucky enough to go to the  Tom Brady and Patriots  Super Bowl game in  Houston in 2004 .... I still remember it well.     
It was against the Panthers,   and a very  close game.   
Sat in the rafters,  but what the heck!


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## J.B Books

Bonnie said:


> Was lucky enough to go to the  Tom Brady and Patriots  Super Bowl game in  Houston in 2004 .... I still remember it well.
> It was against the Panthers,   and a very  close game.
> Sat in the rafters,  but what the heck!


I went to only one Super Bowl.

Jan. 26, 1986 Bears vs Patriots in New Orleans.


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## Chet

I'm glad the Bills lost. They didn't come out for the National Anthem. Was it because that guitar player made listening too painful? I doubt it although it was painful.


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## J.B Books

Chet said:


> I'm glad the Bills lost. They didn't come out for the National Anthem. Was it because that guitar player made listening too painful? I doubt it although it was painful.


Green Bay didn't come out for the Anthem either.


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## Chet

J.B Books said:


> Green Bay didn't come out for the Anthem either.


...and Green Bay lost too!


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## J.B Books

Chet said:


> ...and Green Bay lost too!


Exactly


----------



## jerry old

Dynasties :
The Brown in the old American League had a Dynasties, when they joined the NFL they were still a power house, due to their
Coach Paul Brown who ran the front office and coached.

Green Bay had a dynasty, then wandered into a also ran

Steelers had a dynasty for four years  then fell off
Also, Skins, 49's, Cowboys Raiders, Dolphins...

No Team Has Approached the patriots FOR THE longest running dynasty-Almost two decades:

14 playoff seasons, 7 super bowls, won 5

How did they do that?
Free Agency and the draft was supposed to prevent dynasties.

Dynasties require:
One you have to have a front office that can evaluate players, draft choices and get rid of the squabblers.
Two  you have to have a coach that can work with the front office and the players
Third-the players
Tom Brady and Belichick, Belichick and Tom Brady-did they make each other?

We Won't see a Brady again, unless his name is Mahones, but does KC have the coach-Reed will be retiring soon,
Free agency will decimate the 'stars' unless they have a super front office.


----------



## Nosy Bee-54

Chet said:


> I'm glad the Bills lost. They didn't come out for the National Anthem. Was it because that guitar player made listening too painful? I doubt it although it was painful.


*
I would bet every flag pin worshiper watching the game at home remained seated on their fannies while downing a sixth hot dog.


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## J.B Books

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> *
> I would bet every flag pin worshiper watching the game at home remained seated on their fannies while downing a sixth hot dog.


It was a real bad impression of Jimi Hendrix doing the Anthem. They could have done better.
Sad part is that everything is approved by the NFL.


----------



## Lethe200

*What We Learned From the NFL’s Conference Championships*
The Chiefs will try to defend their Super Bowl title against Tom Brady and the Buccaneers — who are playing at home.
NY Times by Benjamin Hoffman Jan. 24, 2021
The Super Bowl matchup is set. The TBay Buccaneers, who came into the playoffs as the fifth seed in the NFC, will host the defending champion KC Chiefs on Feb. 7 at Raymond James Stadium in Tampa, Fla. For Tom Brady, it is a chance at a seventh Super Bowl win. For Patrick Mahomes, it is an opportunity to be the first QB to win back-to-back titles — since Brady.

The Buccaneers came into Sunday’s NFC championship game as underdogs on the road, but beat the GBay Packers, 31-26. The Chiefs, playing in their third consecutive AFC championship game, beat the Buffalo Bills, 38-24. The game did not feel that close.

*The Winner’s Bracket

Tom Brady’s faith in himself has been rewarded. *At the end of last season, Brady, who was 42 at the time, seemed to be in physical decline as his New England Patriots lost a wild-card playoff game at home to the Tennessee Titans. Speculation was rampant that he might walk away from the game, but Brady, a six-time Super Bowl winner, bet on himself, signing with a promising young TBay team that could support him with talented WRs. That move paid off. Brady had a throwback regular season, tossing 40 TD passes. He is heading to his 10th Super Bowl, a record. And with Saints QB Drew Brees likely to retire, it appears safe that Brady, regardless of when he retires, will go out as the career leader in passing TDs.

*Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce don’t care about your Cinderella story. *The Bills were the feel-good story of the season, and they took a quick 9-0 lead on Sunday. But the combination of Hill and Kelce was simply relentless, with them combining to catch 22 passes for 290 yds, and two TDs by Kelce. With 13 catches, Kelce tied the NFL record for receptions by a TE in a playoff game, but the most demoralizing play of the game came from Hill who caught a 6-yard pass that the NFL’s Next Gen Stats database said should have resulted in 10 yds after the catch, or a 16-yard play. Using his speed and his ability to shed tacklers, Hill gained 71. Only three plays all season exceeded their expected yardage by a wider margin.

The question for the Super Bowl is how much time Patrick Mahomes will have to throw to either player, as TBay’s pass rush can make life miserable for opposing QBs.

*It is time to wonder what qualifies as a dynasty. *KC has played in the AFC championship game three seasons in a row, winning it twice, and has a chance to be the first team to repeat as Super Bowl champions since the Patriots did it after the 2003 and 2004 seasons. While sports teams are typically only considered a dynasty after three championships, the NFL’s lack of repeat winners in recent decades in the salary cap era makes it worth considering if two titles would constitute a dynasty.

*The Loser’s Bracket

If your season is on the line, the ball should be in Aaron Rodgers’s hands. *The Packers, trailing by 8, faced a fourth-and-goal at TBay’s 8-yard line with just over two minutes remaining. Rather than going for it, GBay kicked a field goal to narrow the deficit to 5 points. As a result, Aaron Rodgers never saw the ball again. TBay was able to secure a few first downs — with help from a few penalties — and ran out the clock to ice the victory. While there was no guarantee Rodgers would have found someone in the end zone on that fourth-down play, taking the team’s fate out of Rodgers’s hands is probably something that will haunt the Packers in the off-season.

*If you can pressure Rodgers, you can beat him. *An aggressive young defense was the Buccaneers’ calling card last season, and while the unit was inconsistent in 2020, it showed what it was capable of on Sunday. A week after Rodgers wasn’t sacked a single time and was hit only once, he was harassed all game by TBay’s front seven. Officially, the Buccaneers had five sacks and eight QB hits, but in reality they forced Rodgers into getting rid of the ball quickly on nearly every play. They put so much pressure on him that he made a rare mistake on a free play, not seeing that Davante Adams was wide open on the sideline on a play in which GBay had drawn a TBay defender offsides.

*The Chiefs had a plan for Stefon Diggs.* All season, Diggs was the key for Buffalo. Diggs, the star WR, not only set career highs in receptions and yds receiving during the regular season, but he opened up the entire field for the rest of the Bills’ offense because of the respect opposing defenses showed him. The Chiefs attacked him with press coverage throughout the first half — far more press than he saw during the regular season — all but eliminating him from the game. Diggs finished the day with six catches for 77 yds, but 34 of that came on one play late in the game when the Chiefs had a large lead and switched into a prevent defense.

*Buffalo needs more from its running game. *Josh Allen can feel like a one-man show, throwing TD passes and reeling off huge runs at will. But it was abundantly clear in Sunday’s game that the Bills simply can’t run the ball beyond Allen’s scrambles. Devin Singletary, T.J. Yeldon and Isaiah McKenzie combined to carry the ball 11 times for 41 yds. Buffalo can get by with its passing game and Allen’s wild runs against a lot of teams, but if the Bills want to compete with a team like the Chiefs in future seasons, finding some balance on offense is key.


----------



## jerry old

Yes, Buc's have good team, but Brady's three  Interceptions strongly indicate something is wrong with *Old Tom.
*
If Tom were a decade younger, the game would be a tossup., he's not, and the Chief's should win with no problem.
The Chief's are not going to blow the  Buc's away, but the Chiefs  have Mahomes, and the Bu,s have to go with* Old Tom.*

Chiefs by 7

We would all like to see *Old Tom* 'Win one for the Gipper', but he's won three already.  
Wildcard teams have won the Super Bowl two or three times, not this year.

(OFF TOPIC-The Raiders were ugly, nasty and just plain rotten, but i kind'a miss them and their evil ways.)


----------



## jerry old

I've had raging fever all day-consequently do not care who wins this game.
Couldn't walk until 2nd quarter, have tv on for company.
Bummer

Take that back, Brady makes one watch, darn he is putting on a show..


----------



## AnnieA

jerry old said:


> I've had raging fever all day-consequently do not care who wins this game.
> Couldn't walk until 2nd quarter, have tv on for company.
> Bummer
> 
> Take that back, Brady makes one watch, darn he is putting on a show..


@jerry old  Have you had a Covid test?


----------



## jerry old

No covid testing, have had rampant fever for years. Doc say-Hmmm?


AnnieA said:


> @jerry old  Have you had a Covid test?


----------



## AnnieA

jerry old said:


> No covid testing, have had rampant fever for years. Doc say-Hmmm?



FUO ....bet you've seen that one on your chart.  Hope you feel better soon!


----------



## AnnieA

jerry old said:


> I've had raging fever all day-consequently do not care who wins this game.
> Couldn't walk until 2nd quarter, have tv on for company.
> Bummer
> 
> Take that back, Brady makes one watch, darn he is putting on a show..


@jerry old   ...the guy with Bradyesque determination plays for your team and wants to stay there if the Jones family would just get his contract settled.


----------



## Furryanimal

I’m knackered...Play the Super Bowl at 3EDT...it’s after 3am here 

Who said Brady was past it?That was a bit easier than I thought!Still two minutes left but just going through the motions now.
Will Brady be in LA next year...Repeat?


----------



## Nosy Bee-54

Bucs won the game on both sides of the line. Lots of congrats to the OC and DC. The defense made Mahomes' life miserable the whole game.

Overall, I found game boring and I'm a big football fan.


----------



## J.B Books

I have to admit.
I really didn't care who would win the game. I watched because it was the Super Bowl and I always watch it.
It got boring. Since I record the game while I watch I just paused it and turned it off for a while. Took a nap.
I woke up up and fast forwarded through the game and went to the fourth quarter. I turned it off.
If I ever feel like watching it I will go back and watch it. I will probably delete it in a week.
Yawn.


----------



## Ken N Tx

J.B Books said:


> It got boring.


----------



## jerry old

[IMG alt="AnnieA"]https://www.seniorforums.com/data/avatars/m/6/6783.jpg?1572661923[/IMG]          



AnnieA​You got it, Cowboys have to win despite Jerry Jones.  a dabbler, a deterrent, "It is my team!"  Some of the players love him, no doubt due to
their salaries.
His son is trying to ease him out, Jerry won't go.


----------



## jerry old

The oft repeated words, "Defense wins Super Bowl," was on display.
The Bucs looked like the Ravens and Steelers defenses of yesteryear.

Mahones was ready to win the game, the Buc's defense wouldn't let him.
I didn't realize how good the Buc's defense was...
Where was the Chief's defense?  It looks like they were absent.

Mahones can put 35 points on the board every game, Unless, Unless the defense will not let him.


----------



## J.B Books

Ken N Tx said:


>


Ok if you like that stuff.


----------



## Nosy Bee-54

J.B Books said:


> Ok if you like that stuff.


The guy was not even wearing a mask.   .... Surge super spreader coming to all the revelers at the after game parties.


----------



## Lethe200

From the SB Nation KC Chiefs sports columnists:

*What we learned about the Chiefs this week *_(edited by lethe200)_
Chiefs-Bucs Super Bowl LV rapid reactions by SB Nation Staff Feb 13, 2021

After the Kansas City Chiefs lost Super Bowl LV to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers on Sunday night, Matt Stagner was able to find a balanced list of winners and losers from the ugly loss, while John Dixon focused on a big factor few had noticed before the game. But in his rapid reaction, Pete Sweeney articulated the biggest problem.

Let’s get this out of the way: the game was officiated poorly and unfairly — especially in the first half. That is not the reason the Chiefs lost. The Chiefs lost the Super Bowl because they were outplayed at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the football.

All week, it was suggested that the Chiefs makeshift offensive line would be tested against a Buccaneers front that had its way vs GBay. That in fact was a grand understatement. The Chiefs missed tackles Eric Fisher and Mitch Schwartz dearly; they also missed Laurent Duvernay-Tardif and Kelechi Osemele who sat out the season.

Dianna Russini of ESPN tweeted: _“#Chiefs Patrick Mahomes was pressured the most of any QB in Super Bowl history. 29 pressures = 52% “_

By the fourth quarter, Patrick Mahomes — already hobbled by turf toe that is expected to require surgery — was running for his life.

*Chiefs fans now understand a different form of pain after Super Bowl LV loss*
Kent Swanson searched for the silver lining from Sunday’s loss.

“ Winning a Super Bowl is difficult — and you need some luck on your side. You saw that on Sunday, as the Chiefs rolled out a completely decimated Offensive Line trying to protect a quarterback playing through turf toe. Attrition is a major contributing factor in a team’s ability to sustain success. Just ask the San Francisco 49ers.

The Chiefs have been to three straight AFC championship games. They will be there again several times. They will be in the Super Bowl several times as well. And they will win some — probably most they play in — but not every single one.

I’ll choose this pain every time. The hopes and dreams of Chiefs fans for generations are finally realized — the Chiefs are actually contenders. And now we all better understand firsthand the burden that comes with it.”

*Report: Britt Reid’s Chiefs contract has expired*
Britt Reid — the 35-year-old son of Kansas City Chiefs head coach Andy Reid — is no longer with the club, according to a report from ESPN’s Adam Schefter.

Britt, who had been on the Chiefs’ staff in various roles since Andy’s arrival in 2013, was involved in a multi-vehicle accident prior to the Super Bowl and is under investigation for driving impaired. A 5-year-old girl suffered life-threatening injuries as a result of the incident.

*The Top Five 2021 offseason priorities for the Kansas City Chiefs*
Matt Stagner assembled his wish list for KC in 2021. Guess what was at the top?

*1. Protect Patrick Mahomes.*
When you have the greatest player in the game, protecting him with an OL should always be a top priority. After watching the complete breakdown in protection in the Super Bowl, and given the significant injuries at the OT position, the situation looks pretty dire.

The cupboards aren’t bare, with some returning players (like LDT and Lucas Niang) who might be able to contribute. But, assembling a deeper offensive line with some top-end starters —inside and out—has to be the top priority.

They could use draft picks 31 and/or 63 on any of the three OL positions, and it would be seen as a smart move. They could also look to free agency. We could see a very different offensive line unit by the season opener.

*The biggest free agency decision for the Chiefs*
Ron Kopp put on his GM hat, revealing the choice he would make about the team’s offensive free agents:

*Sammy Watkins*
It’s easy to continue giving chances to Watkins, a very talented WR who has played a significant role in two of the three Chiefs’ playoff runs. But his unreliability has become too much to accommodate.

A calf strain in Week 16 kept him off the field for over a month. When he finally played in Super Bowl LV, he was nearly invisible — catching his only target for 13 yards. The Chiefs needed a third pass-catcher to step up. A healthy, confident Watkins can absolutely be that — but there’s no telling when you’ll get that (and when you won’t) from the soon-to-be 28-year-old receiver. Even in the case of an inexpensive, short-term deal — I’d let another team give him a chance.

Verdict: Let him walk

&&&

Addendum: almost forgot, another article somewhere suggested that KC figure out what how to better utilize RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire in their overall offensive scheme. He’s got blazing speed, but they hardly utilized him at all in the SB.


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## jerry old

Well Lethe 200, I've been channel surfing all day, can't find a football game-what's up?
I've found lost of auto racing, basketball, golf,...would settle for rugby...

Did not know Buc's secondary was that good...
Next year, Chief's vs Cowboys-Cowboys by      30-40


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## Lethe200

Happy Chinese New Years, Jerry!

In the off-season I surf around SB Nation to see what other teams' writers/fans are proposing for their teams. Needless to say, much debate and many differing opinions to be found in the Green Bay and New Orleans groups! Very interesting.

With JJ Watts getting his requested release from the Texans, added to Deshaun's desire to leave as well, there is a lot of speculation over where each will play in the 2021-22 season. The LA Rams board is abuzz over rumors that JJ may be lured to their team now that they have dumped the ineffectual Jared Goff and swapped him out for QB Matt Stafford instead. 

With the addition of Stafford the Rams immediately were installed as LVegas bookmakers' choice for winner of not only the NFC West but the entire NFC division as its Super Bowl 56 entry. If JJ Watts can pass a physical and if both he and Rams pass rusher Aaron Donald can structure team-friendly contracts, they could give any opponent nightmares!

The Texans want a lot for Deshaun, at least one if not more first round picks. That's understandable, but it limits who he might go to. Miami or the Jets qualify with the best offerings, but DW has refusal rights to where he goes, so it all depends on whether he wants to stay in the tougher of the two conferences. 

Although the NFC West is considered the most competitive division, the NFC conference is weaker overall than the AFC conference. If DW stays in the AFC, he will always be competing with Mahomes, Herbert, et. al. 

It's 50-50 that Deshaun might end up remaining in Houston, unhappy as he is.

There are also rumors that QB Russell Wilson is increasingly unhappy about the poor OL protection he's had for all 8 years he's been with the Seahawks. I don't blame him, his durability is astounding considering how lousy his OL is. With the Rams looking like they're jumping feet-first into the short-term goal of winning the SB 56 (they already have cap issues as-is), Seattle's prospects of winning the division next year have gotten much slimmer unless the injury bug hits LAR.
=======

But beyond that, I watch the NBA. I'm a Warriors fan!


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## jerry old

Eagles QB Carson Wentz scheduled to make 20 million in 2021, traded to Colts for a 3rd round draft pick in 2021 and a 2nd round pick in 2022.
He was great when Eagles won Super Bowl, now is ability is suspect.

The Rams would like to trade Goff, his ridiculous salary hurts Rams cap.


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## Lethe200

LA Rams swapped Jared Goff to the Detroit Lions for Matthew Stafford on January 31st. LAR  threw in a first-round draft pick, to boot. They are clearly shooting for SB 56 after finding Goff unable to help them advance last season. 

Wentz will be reunited with Frank Reich, now HC of the Colts. Reich was the OC when Wentz had his most successful years. After Reich left, Wentz's performance suffered. 

Can Reich resuscitate Wentz's career? We'll see. He'll be the Colts' 4th QB in 4 years. Jacoby Brissett wasn't the answer for them, so the question is now, where will Brissett end up - the Patriots? The Niners? Or will the Colts hang on to him for a backup?

Stay tuned; interesting things will happen in FA this year.


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## jerry old

I dunno, Stafford was always suspect.
Rams making room on their budget-I wonder if they have enough money to lure JJ to LA?


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## Lethe200

Stafford put up a bunch of records with a terrible team, so he should be an upgrade to Goff no matter what. LA Rams have the best D in football (ranked #1 in 2020) and a decent-enough offense that even an average QB should be an improvement. 

QBs Jared Goff and Jimmy Garoppolo (Niners) have the same problem. They flinch under pressure. I don't know about Goff (haven't watched him consistently) but I can't blame Jimmy G - his OL protection has been absolutely terrible after his first year with us. That first year he did pretty well, and then the OL fell off a cliff and he got hurt multiple times. 

I'm also not as in love with coach Kyle Shanahan as some Niner fans, especially having personally watched during HoF'er HC/GM Bill Walsh. Kyle is a bright offensive strategist, but I see two flaws after his 4 yrs with SF:

*He doesn't like to adjust his playcalling to his current team's strengths/weaknesses. *If all his 1st-stringers are healthy, everything's copacetic and the O hums like a well-oiled machine. But let somebody get hurt - and these days that's commonplace, especially for SF over the last 2 yrs - and the wheels start to wobble and fall off. 

This is a REAL problem. Kyle is young, and I hope can learn and grow some. If he can't learn to adapt better, we're in for a long stretch of fan frustration.


*I'm not impressed with how fast he has rushed players back from injury. *Again, BIG problem. It's related to #1 - he wants all his 1st stringers on the field. Otherwise, the O doesn't work as well. It's as plain and simple as that. 

SF has one of the two best TEs in the NFL - George Kittle. Travis Kelce is a little bigger/heavier, and more durable. Kittle is the superior blocker. But he struggled with injuries in 2020, and what I saw was Kyle letting him play in games based on Kittle's say-so that he was okay. But he wasn't 100%, and it showed. He came back and was so-so, and then the very next game he got a new, and worse, injury that took him out for the rest of the season.

Kittle is an old-fashioned "gamer". He will always want to be on the field and hitting his blocks. That means you can't depend on what he says about his health. He has taken major hits in just the 3 yrs he's been playing, and will doubtless take more - as many more as Kyle will allow. 

And to my mind, Kyle is going to allow him to take more than he should, because much more than the QB position, Kittle is the one essential to Kyle's O-schemes. The Niners have no one even close to Kittle's blocking ability, to back up the TE position. With a porous OL line compounding the problem (Kittle likes to go up against those edge rush passers!), no wonder Niner QBs were getting hammered and the O couldn't keep long drives sustained in 2020.


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## jerry old

The lack of an O line cost the Chief's a Super Bowl.


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## Lethe200

Yes, the KC Chiefs were playing an OL with second stringers at every position. No wonder Mahomes got frustrated - although he was a bit to blame too, for trying too hard to make the big play rather than being more patient. 

But that's probably the difference between being 25 yrs old and 43 yrs old, LOL!


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## jerry old

All is forgiven
Spring training starts in July

If you a Cowboy fan you only ask: 'Please don't embarrass us again.'

Mellow Yellow says the three Wal-Mart kid's will receive 56 billion dollars each; football guys said 'Hmmm,'


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## jerry old

Cowboys and Steelers in Hall of Fame game tonight

Don't waste your time watching, starting lineup will not play until third game.

P.S. stand by for changing team names:
Real cowboys are offended by the football team of the same name-they don't want to be associated with these inadequate folks;
new name will be Dallas Shitkickers.


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