# If we can't mention politics, let's add Virtue Signaling news/opinions



## Paco Dennis (Apr 29, 2021)




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## digifoss (Apr 29, 2021)

This might get interesting....


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## 911 (Apr 29, 2021)




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## fuzzybuddy (Apr 29, 2021)

HUH?


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

Frankly, even the phrase “virtue signalling“ makes me tense. I fear it will provoke division among us. The term itself has been inextricably linked over time with some very unpleasant political and socio-economic verbal wars. Check the media in assorted countries.


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## Keesha (Apr 29, 2021)

digifoss said:


> This might get interesting....


Define interesting.  Lol
It sounds like trouble to me.


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

By the way, I have a pink hat just like the ones in the picture.


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

Why can’t we just get along with each other rather than stir the pot? It never ends well.


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## rgp (Apr 29, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Why can’t we just get along with each other rather than stir the pot? It never ends well.



You sound like Rodney King ...

 IMO, truth of the matter is ..... I really do not think mankind was meant to get along. How many meliena have guns been around ? & not just for hunting, cannon , catapult,  fencing, walls, etc & so-on. Boxing , mixed-martial arts . All are weapons. If we were all meant to get along, we would have never gone passed weapons for hunting.

As for stirring the pot ....... most everyone wants their side to be heard , and believes their side is correct.


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## tbeltrans (Apr 29, 2021)

I had to look up to find out what the phrase means.  Who makes this stuff up and why?

Tony


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## ProTruckDriver (Apr 29, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Frankly, even the phrase “virtue signalling“ makes me tense. I fear it will provoke division among us.


Makes me tense also. It has already provoke division among us. 


tbeltrans said:


> I had to look up to find out what the phrase means. Who makes this stuff up and why?


I looked it up a few months ago to find out what it means. A lot of this stuff is made up on Social Media. I've heard some people on Facebook think the posts on Facebook are the Gospel Truth. No I do not have or will have an account with Facebook.


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## Lara (Apr 29, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> I had to look up to find out what the phrase means.  Who makes this stuff up and why?


Psychiatrists and Psychologists so they can charge more for something you don't understand instead of just calling it "a disingenuous moral view point" or sell you pills you can't afford nor need...when you just need a swift kick in the butt (to the professional members here...I'm just joking)


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## hollydolly (Apr 29, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> Makes me tense also. It has already provoke division among us.
> 
> I looked it up a few months ago to find out what it means. A lot of this stuff is made up on Social Media. I've heard some people on Facebook think the posts on Facebook are the Gospel Truth. No I do not have or will have an account with Facebook.


..and not just on FB..there's a lot of stuff made -up on this forum...


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## hollydolly (Apr 29, 2021)

Lara said:


> Psychiatrists and Psychologists so they can charge more for something you don't understand instead of just calling it "a disingenuous moral view point" (to the professional members here...I'm just joking)


No professional Psychiatrists or Psychologists  members here, Lara.. don't worry you won't be offending anyone...


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> Makes me tense also. It has already provoke division among us.
> 
> I looked it up a few months ago to find out what it means. A lot of this stuff is made up on Social Media. I've heard some people on Facebook think the posts on Facebook are the Gospel Truth. No I do not have or will have an account with Facebook.


You are right Driver, sadly, the comments have already begun.


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## tbeltrans (Apr 29, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> Makes me tense also. It has already provoke division among us.
> 
> I looked it up a few months ago to find out what it means. A lot of this stuff is made up on Social Media. I've heard some people on Facebook think the posts on Facebook are the Gospel Truth. No I do not have or will have an account with Facebook.


I have an account on Facebook, but locked it down and never look at whatever my page is supposed to be.  My only use of Facebook is when I take an online class and the instructor has a private Facebook page for the students.

As for social media, I have no interest.  All I hear about is the squabbling.  I have seen more than enough of that around here, which leaves me frequently re-evaluating my presence here too.

Tony


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> I have an account on Facebook, but locked it down and never look at whatever my page is supposed to be.  My only use of Facebook is when I take an online class and the instructor has a private Facebook page for the students.
> 
> As for social media, I have no interest.  All I hear about is the squabbling.  I have seen more than enough of that around here, which leaves me frequently re-evaluating my presence here too.
> 
> Tony


It seems like most of the internet sites are dealing with lots of squabbling anymore. People have gone bonkers and that's all they do is fight and be hateful to each other. It's discouraging to say the least.


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## hollydolly (Apr 29, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> It seems like most of the internet sites are dealing with lots of squabbling anymore. People have gone bonkers and that's all they do is fight and be hateful to each other. It's discouraging to say the least.


People are home more, nothing to do to get rid of their excess energy... fed up being alone or stuck with a partner who they fight with all the time..or maybe fight  with strangers online  instead...


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> People are home more, nothing to do to get rid of their excess energy... fed up being alone or stuck with a partner who they fight with all the time..or maybe fight  with strangers online  instead...


All the stress from the pandemic from masks to vaccines is just making it 10 times worse.


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## IrisSenior (Apr 29, 2021)

Bah humbug...


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## ProTruckDriver (Apr 29, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> fed up being alone or stuck with a partner who they fight with all the time


My Wife and I don't fight or argue, I think?? Even if we did we wouldn't be able to remember what the hell we were arguing about anyway with us getting these senior moments.


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## ohioboy (Apr 29, 2021)

Lara said:


> Psychiatrists and Psychologists so they can charge more for something you don't understand instead of just calling it "a disingenuous moral view point" or sell you pills you can't afford nor need...when you just need a swift kick in the butt (to the professional members here...I'm just joking)



Is that why my Butt is so sore?


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## helenbacque (Apr 29, 2021)

When you're a hammer, everything you see is a nail. 

 If an anonymous posting on an internet site provides an outlet for pent-up anger and stress or if instigating a war of words on line prevents such action face to face, maybe it's a good thing.  It's very easy for anyone not interesting in engaging to just move on to something else.


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## hollydolly (Apr 29, 2021)

helenbacque said:


> When you're a hammer, everything you see is a nail.
> 
> If an anonymous posting on an internet site provides an outlet for pent-up anger and stress or if instigating a war of words on line prevents such action face to face, maybe it's a good thing.  It's very easy for anyone not interesting in engaging to just move on to something else.


...ahhh but you gotta remember that attacking people ..albeit faceless people on an internet forum.. may mean you're attacking those who are already suffering...


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## helenbacque (Apr 29, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> ...ahhh but you gotta remember that attacking people ..albeit faceless people on an internet forum.. may mean you're attacking those who are already suffering...


Ahhh, yes.  A double-edged sword?


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## 911 (Apr 29, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> By the way, I have a pink hat just like the ones in the picture.


I never even noticed the hats. I just thought the picture was interesting.I didn’t mean for it to offend anyone.


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

911 said:


> I never even noticed the hats. I just thought the picture was interesting.I didn’t mean for it to offend anyone.


Thanks for clarifying that 911, apparently I read too much into it. No worries.


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## DaveA (Apr 29, 2021)

Anyone wonder who or what has brought on this dismaying behavior which wasn't present a few years back.  People always have had different views but never so strong and nasty as in the present and near past.

Personally, I think we've gone past the point of decency among a large part of the population and although my remaining lifetime is quite short, I don't expect to see this once relatively peaceful society return to it's prior state, especially when we have some of our leaders encouraging violent behavior as a method of gaining or holding power in the country.

I, personally, disagree with much of what goes on about us but it is abhorrent to think of any form of violence to form the country in an image that suits me.


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## tbeltrans (Apr 29, 2021)

Possibly I posted this already at some point in some thread ... I came up with a way to get religion, sex, and politics into one sentence...

Bill Clinton is a Baptist, isn't he?

There, all three taboo subjects have been expressed.  Let the fun begin...   

Tony


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## tbeltrans (Apr 29, 2021)

DaveA said:


> Anyone wonder who or what has brought on this dismaying behavior which wasn't present a few years back.  People always have had different views but never so strong and nasty as in the present and near past.
> 
> Personally, I think we've gone past the point of decency among a large part of the population and although my remaining lifetime is quite short, I don't expect to see this once relatively peaceful society return to it's prior state, especially when we have some of our leaders encouraging violent behavior as a method of gaining or holding power in the country.
> 
> I, personally, disagree with much of what goes on about us but it is abhorrent to think of any form of violence to form the country in an image that suits me.


My guess is that it is a nasty combination of "me first" and political correctness run amok.  Everybody seems to have some sort of "movement" and either others are for it or against it with no middle ground.

Tony


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 29, 2021)

Like @fuzzybuddy replied.....HUH??


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## AnnieA (Apr 29, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> I had to look up to find out what the phrase means.  Who makes this stuff up and why?
> 
> Tony



It's just a new term for the self-righteous "my view is the correct view" on an issue.   It's often do as I say, not as I do.  Virtue signalers who don't live what they preach (esp common in the celebrity and political crowd) are pretty much the same as televangelists scoring hookers after the sermon ...hypocrites.


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## Nathan (Apr 29, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> If we can't mention politics, let's add Virtue Signaling news/opinions


Get a Facebook account Paco Dennis, there are billions of people you can bicker with and have lose-lose pointless arguments with there.


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## ohioboy (Apr 29, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Get a Facebook account Paco Dennis, there are billions of people you can bicker with and have lose-lose pointless arguments with there.



I have a "Get out of my face" book account.


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## JimBob1952 (Apr 29, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Frankly, even the phrase “virtue signalling“ makes me tense. I fear it will provoke division among us. The term itself has been inextricably linked over time with some very unpleasant political and socio-economic verbal wars. Check the media in assorted countries.



Provoke division among us?  It would be hard to get more divided than we are in the US.  However, this is another topic I'm going to skip in the interest of lowering my blood pressure.


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## Paco Dennis (Apr 29, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Get a Facebook account Paco Dennis, there are billions of people you can bicker with and have lose-lose pointless arguments with there.


  I stay away from all the social media industries. I posted this because before I joined I noticed some conversations evolved into name calling, divisive innuendos, and defensive remarks based on personal biases. I am not interested at all in this stuff and have searched for quite awhile to see if any forums in America stay with the *facts* (if one can wade through all the mass media to get a glimpse of it). Everyone has personal biases and that is where they should remain (personal not advertised) because we are in a time where if we continue to keep dividing and fighting with each other over who is right and who is wrong we can never move forward and make progress towards a more civil society that can work together. Just because we are the elders in our society doesn't give us a pass to proudly defend our personal biases. Virtue signaling is itself another way of doing this and it is automatically divisive.


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Provoke division among us?  It would be hard to get more divided than we are in the US.  However, this is another topic I'm going to skip in the interest of lowering my blood pressure.


I understand. I wasn’t referring to divisions in any specific country, but division among members of this forum.


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## Keesha (Apr 29, 2021)

rgp said:


> You sound like Rodney King ...
> 
> IMO, truth of the matter is ..... I really do not think mankind was meant to get along. How many meliena have guns been around ? & not just for hunting, cannon , catapult,  fencing, walls, etc & so-on. Boxing , mixed-martial arts . All are weapons. If we were all meant to get along, we would have never gone passed weapons for hunting.
> 
> As for stirring the pot ....... most everyone wants their side to be heard , and believes their side is correct.


You NEED some pain meds ........ ( badly)


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## tbeltrans (Apr 29, 2021)

Pot was meant to be smoked, not stirred.  Unfortunately, I don't like what either action does to me.   

Tony


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## horseless carriage (Apr 29, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Provoke division among us?  It would be hard to get more divided than we are in the US.


More divided, if you really want to see division, get yourself a referendum.


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## Sunny (Apr 29, 2021)

I never heard the term "virtue signaling" before now.  I also had to look it up. Sounds to me like a synonym for boasting.

What would be an example of "selfish virtue signaling" vs "selfless virtue signaling?"


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## Paco Dennis (Apr 29, 2021)

Sunny said:


> I never heard the term "virtue signaling" before now.  I also had to look it up. Sounds to me like a synonym for boasting.
> 
> What would be an example of "selfish virtue signaling" vs "selfless virtue signaling?"



Selfish...Boasting about oneself.   selfless...Boasting about a righteous "cause".


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

sigh.


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## Nathan (Apr 29, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> Pot was meant to be smoked, not stirred.  Unfortunately, I don't like what either action does to me.
> 
> Tony


...try the gummies!


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

I do, and the 33% THC stuff I put in my ceramic cat pipe, or in my brownies 
i love living large in Bonglandia


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## Paco Dennis (Apr 29, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> sigh.


I Know...it's the "Never ending story."


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

My sigh was from a different perspective, but a good Canuck knows when to smile and slip away. Namaste.


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> I do, and the 33% THC stuff I put in my ceramic cat pipe, or in my brownies
> i love living large in Bonglandia


I will share


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## Paco Dennis (Apr 29, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> I do, and the 33% THC stuff I put in my ceramic cat pipe, or in my brownies
> i love living large in Bonglandia



I have a Medical Marijuana Card. I can only micro dose with a mix of 3 parts CBD x 1 part THC. Usually the pot is around 17% THC. If I smoked more than that I would be wasted. Like everything...the proverbial saying "Different strokes for different folks".


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## Happyflowerlady (Apr 29, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> I stay away from all the social media industries. I posted this because before I joined I noticed some conversations evolved into name calling, divisive innuendos, and defensive remarks based on personal biases. I am not interested at all in this stuff and have searched for quite awhile to see if any forums in America stay with the *facts* (if one can wade through all the mass media to get a glimpse of it). Everyone has personal biases and that is where they should remain (personal not advertised) because we are in a time where if we continue to keep dividing and fighting with each other over who is right and who is wrong we can never move forward and make progress towards a more civil society that can work together. Just because we are the elders in our society doesn't give us a pass to proudly defend our personal biases. Virtue signaling is itself another way of doing this and it is automatically divisive.


In reference to your statement about finding forums that “stick with the facts”, that seems to me to counteract the reason for having a forum in the first place. I enjoy forums because we can share different opinions with each other, saying what we believe, think, or feel about any thread topic. 
If all we want to do is read facts, then just get the encyclopedia and be done with it, or even quote articles that deal in facts. 
If I want to know about what is in ketchup, I can look it up and find out the facts; but if I want to know whether people like ketchup on their foods (as an easy example), then we have to get into the area of opinions, and that is why forums are a great place to express our variety of opinions. 

Rudeness and name calling is a whole different thing than sharing opinions, and people should not be criticized or condemned just because we have different opinions or beliefs. 

I have a Facebook account, and I love it; but I do not get in any kind of arguments on there. I belong to facebook groups about topics that interest me, and I look forward to reading (and sometimes sharing) on those facebook groups every day. 

I think that it is like the old story about the man who moved to a new town and asked what the people were like in that town. The longtime elderly resident then asked him what the people were like in the town where he moved from, and then said that he would find about the same kind of people in this town. 
What we seek after, we find. 
Look for friends, find friends, look for arguments, find arguments.


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## tbeltrans (Apr 29, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> I have a Medical Marijuana Card. I can only micro dose with a mix of 3 parts CBD x 1 part THC. Usually the pot is around 17% THC. If I smoked more than that I would be wasted. Like everything...the proverbial saying "Different strokes for different folks".


They didn't issue medical marijuana cards when I was in high school, but back then we didn't care.   

Tony


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## Dana (Apr 29, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> No professional Psychiatrists or Psychologists  members here, Lara.. don't worry you won't be offending anyone...


*How dare you!!!*


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## Dana (Apr 29, 2021)

Lara said:


> Psychiatrists and Psychologists so they can charge more for something you don't understand instead of just calling it "a disingenuous moral view point" or sell you pills you can't afford nor need...when you just need a swift kick in the butt (to the professional members here...I'm just joking)



*
You are so ill-informed and it seems not only in religion either.*


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

rgp said:


> You sound like Rodney King ...
> 
> IMO, truth of the matter is ..... I really do not think mankind was meant to get along. How many meliena have guns been around ? & not just for hunting, cannon , catapult,  fencing, walls, etc & so-on. Boxing , mixed-martial arts . All are weapons. If we were all meant to get along, we would have never gone passed weapons for hunting.
> 
> As for stirring the pot ....... most everyone wants their side to be heard , and believes their side is correct.


People have fought each other in wars since the beginning of time.


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

Dana said:


> *You are so ill-informed and it seems not only in religion either.*


She's one of the nicest people here. Which is more than I can say for some.


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## Dana (Apr 29, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> ...ahhh but you gotta remember that attacking people ..albeit faceless people on an internet forum.. may mean you're attacking those who are already suffering...


_You have just "attacked" a whole body of professionals. Perhaps you should chose your words after careful consideration!_


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

Boy you're just a hateful little thing aren't you?


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## Dana (Apr 29, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> Boy you're just a hateful little thing aren't you?


_No...I tell the truth. Try and know the difference. That will make you a happier person._


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

No I think what you do is you come in here acting like a know it all and try to slap us all in the face with your intellect and hope that we buy into it. You don't know jack about Lara or her religious knowledge so perhaps you need to shut your piehole and quit being so nasty to people for no other reason than sport.


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

There's a big difference between arguing and insulting. Learn the difference.


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## Dana (Apr 29, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> No I think what you do is you come in here acting like a know it all and try to slap us all in the face with your intellect and hope that we buy into it. You don't know jack about Lara or her religious knowledge so perhaps you need to shut your piehole and quit being so nasty to people for no other reason than sport.


_Well.. I refuse to enter into a conversation with someone like you clearly.. we are on different levels of our evolution. I know things (but not all things) because I went to school!. You are now off my radar....go fight with someone else._


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

Ooooh that burns. LOL!


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## JimBob1952 (Apr 29, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> I understand. I wasn’t referring to divisions in any specific country, but division among members of this forum.



Division at SF is to be avoided!  We are all in this (being old) together.  You are a kind person and I admire your spirit.


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## Dana (Apr 29, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> No I think what you do is you come in here acting like a know it all and try to slap us all in the face with your intellect and hope that we buy into it. You don't know jack about Lara or her religious knowledge so perhaps you need to shut your piehole and quit being so nasty to people for no other reason than sport.


No point entering into any barney with you...welcome to my ignored list!


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

Yippee!!


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Division at SF is to be avoided!  We are all in this (being old) together.  You are a kind person and I admire your spirit.


Thank you.


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

I think she just insinuated that I'm a knuckle dragger. LMAO


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## ohioboy (Apr 29, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> I think she just insinuated that I'm a knuckle dragger. LMAO



Or a deformed octopus.


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## hollydolly (Apr 29, 2021)

Dana said:


> _You have just "attacked" a whole body of professionals. Perhaps you should chose your words after careful consideration!_


A whole body of professional psychologists and psychiatrists  on THIS forum ? ...do grow up!!!


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## ohioboy (Apr 29, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> A whole body of professional psychologists and psychiatrists  on THIS forum ? ...do grow up!!!


I'm just a Psycho.


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## Keesha (Apr 29, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> They didn't issue medical marijuana cards when I was in high school, but back then we didn't care.
> 
> Tony


Didn’t care then, don’t care now either. Lol


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## tbeltrans (Apr 29, 2021)

Keesha said:


> Didn’t care then, don’t care now either. Lol


My issue with pot is that it makes my head fuzzy for too long.  I have been away from drugs and alcohol for about 40 years and have come to like being clearheaded - especially as I get older and my memory isn't as good as it once was.

That said, it is none of my concern what others choose to do.  Have fun with my blessing.   

Tony


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## hollydolly (Apr 29, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> I'm just a Psycho.


You're in Good Company....


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> I'm just a Psycho.


Actually the reference to a whole body of psychologists/ psychiatrists is a professional term referring to them as a professional group. It does not determine how many are members of sf.


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## hollydolly (Apr 29, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> My issue with pot is that it makes my head fuzzy for too long.  I have been away from drugs and alcohol for about 40 years and have come to like being clearheaded - especially as I get older and my memory isn't as good as it once was.
> 
> That said, it is none of my concern what others choose to do.  Have fun with my blessing.
> 
> Tony


I've never touched illicit or illegal drugs,of any kind ..and really the only time I drank alcohol was when I was a teen and trying to look cool along with my friends, but I found I could drink far too much and not get drunk.. and also I didn't like the taste so, I thought what's the point..and I've been tee-total since..


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## ohioboy (Apr 29, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> You're in Good Company....


I used to be a Genius but I got demoted to Anus.


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## Dana (Apr 29, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> A whole body of professional psychologists and psychiatrists  on THIS forum ? ...do grow up!!!


_
A very important part of "growing up" is not making generalizations. Something you would do well to heed, my dear!
._


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## Keesha (Apr 29, 2021)

tbeltrans said:


> My issue with pot is that it makes my head fuzzy for too long.  I have been away from drugs and alcohol for about 40 years and have come to like being clearheaded - especially as I get older and my memory isn't as good as it once was.
> 
> That said, it is none of my concern what others choose to do.  Have fun with my blessing.
> 
> Tony


You just need to tweak your product some.
Gel caps, gummies. Stick to the sativa side and you’ll stay clear headed. Indica is more of a body stone that numbs your thinking too at times. Even a mellow hybrid would be nice like Northern Lights.


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

I feel like I should be taking notes. *Grins playfully*


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## Shalimar (Apr 29, 2021)

Best do that before you blaze. Roll another one, just like the other one...


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## hollydolly (Apr 29, 2021)

Dana said:


> _A very important part of "growing up" is not making generalizations. Something you would do well to heed, my dear!
> ._


hahaha... you need to take lessons in patronisation, you're not very good at it, but nice try.

Now you're boring me, so back on ignore you go...


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

Somebody needs to rethink her strategy for friend making I think.


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## Lara (Apr 29, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> No I think what you do is you come in here acting like a know it all and try to slap us all in the face with your intellect and hope that we buy into it. You don't know jack about Lara or her religious knowledge so perhaps you need to shut your piehole and quit being so nasty to people for no other reason than sport.


Thank you


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## Warrigal (Apr 29, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Get a Facebook account Paco Dennis, there are billions of people you can bicker with and have lose-lose pointless arguments with there.


My Facebook account is only open to my family and I certainly don't want to argue with them over politics or anything else. On Facebook I am Gma, short for Grandma and I always temper my words carefully and always behave myself. 

I join forums to argue the toss about things with strangers but try to remember that behind every username and avatar is a real person with real feelings. At times I have felt the need to apologise for my posts when I realise that I have been a bit spiteful or insensitive. I know that bad forum behaviour results in ejection and I would rather stick around because the discussions can be informative as well as very interesting. If they are neither, I am free to disengage. So are we all.

There... how's that for a pile of virtue signalling?


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## ProTruckDriver (Apr 29, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Now you're boring me, so back on ignore you go...


You have Dana on ignore. So do I.


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## MarciKS (Apr 29, 2021)

And there's a huge difference between having a discussion and fighting and outright attacking people just cuz you can. I enjoy discussions. But I don't care for people being hateful for no good reason. I try to be fair to all involved and try to see things from the point of view of others even if I don't agree.


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