# Question for Christians



## Lon (Apr 2, 2015)

I was thinking the other day about Heaven and Hell, not that I plan to go to either one.
For those that do believe in Heaven, how is the re-uniting of spouses handled, specifically ex spouses, some as ex due to death and others by divorce. And mistresses, what about them? Nasty step children. Seems like it could get a bit testy with all these different relationships. Is it possible for one family member to be in Purgatory, another in Hell, and yet another in Heaven?


----------



## Josiah (Apr 2, 2015)

The Bible really says very little about what exactly you do for an eternity during the afterlife. I found this quote interesting because it was entirely new to me

"In heaven we will be given new names, new imperishable bodies. and we will be clothed in the white robes of righteousness. " (I Corinthians 15:52; 1 Peter 2:5; Revelation 3:12).

Finding ones loved ones among the countless billions of Heaven's inhabitants would be daunting, but if everyone gets new names and new bodies and is dressed alike it would seem impossible.

Editing note- Sorry the quote above is a compilation of phrases from three separate verses.


----------



## SifuPhil (Apr 2, 2015)

Josiah said:


> The Bible really says very little about what exactly you do for an eternity during the afterlife. I found this quote interesting because it was entirely new to me
> 
> "In heaven we will be given new names, new imperishable bodies. and we will be clothed in the white robes of righteousness. "
> 
> Finding ones loved ones among the countless billions of Heaven's inhabitants would be daunting, but if everyone gets new names and new bodies and is dressed alike it would seem impossible.



It would be as if we had landed in some gigantic witness protection program ...


----------



## AZ Jim (Apr 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> It would be as if we had landed in some gigantic witness protection program ...



I don't think either of you need fear it.  I know I won't.


----------



## SifuPhil (Apr 2, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> I don't think either of you need fear it.  I know I won't.



I'm not sure I'd want to be there anyway - most of the friends and family aren't going to be there. layful:


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 2, 2015)

I don't believe in heaven..  I DO believe in a place where souls go to get ready for their next life.  I also believe people are reincarnated in pods..  Or groups..  Your mother may be your son in your next life.. your son may be your grandfather....  and so on.. depending what has been arranged to be learned from one another in the next reincarnation, as I believe you pick the life you have each time.. depending on what ou need to learn from it.


----------



## AZ Jim (Apr 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> I'm not sure I'd want to be there anyway - most of the friends and family aren't going to be there. layful:




And if there's a "hell" we'll be so busy shaking hands with old friends we won't notice the heat.  I am practicing by living in Arizona year around.


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 2, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> It would be as if we had landed in some gigantic witness protection program ...



:lofl: @ Sifuphil

Lon, do you own research about that the Bible says about Heaven and Hell.
Start with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Then do some introspection.
That's why the stories are there in the first place.


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 2, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> And if there's a "hell" we'll be so busy shaking hands with old friends we won't notice the heat.  I am practicing by living in Arizona year around.



Have you read G.B. Shaw's "Man and Superman" ?
I think you'd enjoy the second act.


----------



## Josiah (Apr 2, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Have you read G.B. Shaw's "Man and Superman" ?
> I think you'd enjoy the second act.



I haven't read much of Shaw for years but I remember enjoying "Man and Superman". I think I'll go back and read it. Thanks DW


----------



## AZ Jim (Apr 2, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Have you read G.B. Shaw's "Man and Superman" ?
> I think you'd enjoy the second act.



Putting it on the Library list.  Thanks DW


----------



## rickary (Apr 2, 2015)

The earth is millions of years old and we really do not know how long civilizations of Humanity have been on the planet.  They are still discovering artifacts that could date back more than 30 thousand years of advanced humanity.  Not to long ago we thought man was only about 7000 years old.  This leads me to believe we know very little of the earths history.  Which further allows me to believe that God's teachings could have been from advanced humans from another universe.  I also believe we are being visited by other aliens who are feeding our planet with technology.  But I do believe in a superior creator.


----------



## tnthomas (Apr 2, 2015)

Lon said:


> I was thinking the other day about Heaven and Hell, not that I plan to go to either one.
> For those that do believe in Heaven, how is the re-uniting of spouses handled, specifically ex spouses, some as ex due to death and others by divorce. And mistresses, what about them? Nasty step children. Seems like it could get a bit testy with all these different relationships. Is it possible for one family member to be in Purgatory, another in Hell, and yet another in Heaven?



Nobody can know the answers to these questions.  I am a Christian, meaning that I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ.  But, I don't buy into any fancy notions of what to expect after death, nobody that has made that transition has bothered to come back(if they could) and tell us what it's like.  Yes, Jesus rose from the dead, but he wasn't handing out any travel brochures.

I think that any "hell" that exists is here on Earth.

Purgatory?   That is the waiting period until a divorce is final...

The Old Testament is full of stories, some are not particularly original, and are similar to stories from other cultures.   The New Testament is(in my view, at least) an UPDATE by Jesus as to what is really important.  No stones, compassion instead of vengeance...etc.

Jesus was not a Karl Rove lackey, like some would insist.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 3, 2015)

"If you get to heaven before I do, just bore a hole and pull me through..."


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2015)

Ralphy, we might have to shrink your head first, only a small passageway available , just saying.


----------



## hollydolly (Apr 3, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> Nobody can know the answers to these questions.  I am a Christian, meaning that I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ.  But, I don't buy into any fancy notions of what to expect after death, nobody that has made that transition has bothered to come back(if they could) and tell us what it's like.  Yes, Jesus rose from the dead, but he wasn't handing out any travel brochures.
> 
> I think that any "hell" that exists is here on Earth.
> 
> ...



Good post !!


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 3, 2015)

That's OK, Shal, I will probably go thru ass backwards so the hole should expand to let me in...


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2015)

Ralphy, the visuals on that could turn a person blind, or is that merely wishful thinking?


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 3, 2015)

Well, I ain't going nekkid...


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2015)

Well I guess that eliminates the need for a small crane.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 3, 2015)

As a dedicated hedonist now I have to admit to putting on a few extra pounds, so some type of pulley system may be necessary...


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2015)

Dependent on whether or not you require a truss.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 3, 2015)

No truss needed, my male girdle doe the trick...


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2015)

Coordinates with your bro-bra does it? Pics, we want pics! Freak show time!


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 3, 2015)

And you should see me in manties!  But I expect compensation for those pics...


----------



## ClassicRockr (Apr 3, 2015)

I have no doubt that wife and I will go to Heaven. We will see her son and daughter their and we will see each other there. It will be great to spend Eternity with each other! That's our belief.


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 3, 2015)

Not a christian and I have no idea what happens after we die, but I like the Simpson's idea of the catholic heaven - lots of beer and River Dance.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

Well, If there IS a Heaven... it's pretty obvious we will not have our bodies..   Much of how people try to imagine heaven involves things done with bodies.. even seeing and recognizing people you knew in life.  So If you take the "body" out of the mix.. how would Heaven be?


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 3, 2015)

I don't want to go if there is river dance!


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 3, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> I don't want to go if there is river dance!



I love River Dance. You have no taste, Ralphy boy!  How about the beer?


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Well, If there IS a Heaven... it's pretty obvious we will not have our bodies..   Much of how people try to imagine heaven involves things done with bodies.. even seeing and recognizing people you knew in life.  So If you take the "body" out of the mix.. how would Heaven be?



Very true.


----------



## oakapple (Apr 3, 2015)

It would be nice not to have a body to lug about wouldn't it?


----------



## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

No body?  What happens to all those _beautiful _tattoos some folks display?


----------



## SifuPhil (Apr 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> So If you take the "body" out of the mix.. how would Heaven be?



Very mind-full?


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2015)

Jim,what is wrong with tattoos? I want a pretty Japanese dragon tattoo on my...


----------



## Lon (Apr 3, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> :lofl: @ Sifuphil
> 
> Lon, do you own research about that the Bible says about Heaven and Hell.
> Start with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Then do some introspection.
> That's why the stories are there in the first place.



I was really more interested in knowing what Christians think than in researching the Bible.


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 3, 2015)

In that case, I have to say that the idea of a three tiered universe is a bit outdated.
However, I do not presume to speak for all Christians.


----------



## drifter (Apr 3, 2015)

Christians think: 1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV - For now we see through a glass ...For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


----------



## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Jim,what is wrong with tattoos? I want a pretty Japanese dragon tattoo on my...



I didn't say there was anything wrong with them if you like 'em...I just don't personally care for them at all, but to each his own.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

drifter said:


> Christians think: 1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV - For now we see through a glass ...For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.



say Wha??!!


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 3, 2015)

Jim, I was playing, not serious. Lol.


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 3, 2015)

1 Corinthians 13, part of a letter written to the church in Corinth by St Paul the Apostle. 

It contains the familiar words "_Love is patient, love is kind_" that are often read out during marriage ceremonies and ends with some advice about becoming more mature in faith and thought patterns. It speaks of uncertainty and of something rock solid - namely love.



> When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child.
> When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. [SUP]
> [/SUP]For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face.
> Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
> ...



IMO, speculation about Heaven and Hell is childish thinking and needs to be put to one side. Our thoughts and energy need to be devoted to building lives that have love as the foundation. Love is stronger than faith and hope put together.

At least, that is what this Christian thinks.

PS Thanks, Drifter, for reminding me what it is really all about.


----------



## AZ Jim (Apr 3, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Jim, I was playing, not serious. Lol.



I got it...


----------



## Debby (Apr 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I don't believe in heaven..  I DO believe in a place where souls go to get ready for their next life.  I also believe people are reincarnated in pods..  Or groups..  Your mother may be your son in your next life.. your son may be your grandfather....  and so on.. depending what has been arranged to be learned from one another in the next reincarnation, as I believe you pick the life you have each time.. depending on what ou need to learn from it.




That's exactly what I think happens too.


----------



## Debby (Apr 3, 2015)

[_Christians think: 1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV - For now we see through a glass ...For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.]_



QuickSilver said:


> say Wha??!!




That means, you'll figure it out  or understand completely when you get there.

************
And Dame Warrigal, I think you give short shrift to the thoughts of children when you say:  'IMO, speculation about Heaven and Hell is childish thinking and needs to be put to one side. Our thoughts and energy need to be devoted to building lives that have love as the foundation. Love is stronger than faith and hope put together.'


and I only say this because, Matthew 21:16:  'New International Version
"Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him. "Yes," replied Jesus, "have you never read, "'From the lips of children and infants you, Lord, have called forth your praise'?"   

 Somebody cared about what the children (think) and say.    In fact didn't he also say (Matthew 18:3) that we should 'change and become as little children so that we can enter the kingdom of heaven'?

So continue to think childishly folks about the heaven and hell folks because after all, children don't put limitations on their thoughts.  To them everything is possible!  At least until they grow up and we've taught them 'colour inside the lines'.   Besides children with their childish thoughts usually 'love' without bias until we adults teach them otherwise.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

Debby said:


> [_Christians think: 1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV - For now we see through a glass ...For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.]
> 
> _
> 
> ...



Sheeeeesh...   They why don't they just say that..  lol!!


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 3, 2015)

Debby said:


> [_Christians think: 1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV - For now we see through a glass ...For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.]_
> 
> That means, you'll figure it out  or understand completely when you get there.
> 
> ...



Point taken, Debbie, but I was saying that now that we are mature adults we should not still rely on our childish understandings of the world. When I was about 13 I was incensed by the injustice I saw in some of the Old Testament stories of the battles fought by Joshua and the way the vanquished were treated. I was very naïve and had no idea of the atrocities perpetrated in real wars. 

Because I had no idea how the Bible came about I just decided that the story was about a god that authorised cruelty and violence so I switched off completely. My mum did the same over Jonah and the Whale. Neither of us understood what we were reading for lack of context and historical understanding. Lots of people are saying that as children they decided that the Bible is nonsensical, a fairy tale to be easily dismissed. St Paul, writing to the Corinthians, is urging them to grow up and focus on the really important issues. He suggests that these issues are faith, hope and love which must be put into action.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 3, 2015)

Christians believe wholly on the written word of God Period. The Bible is not stories....it is the life of Christ. The OT points to the NT. And Jesus Christ. The book of Proverbs is an instruction book on how to live life in accordance with God and His Word. Nothing false or phony about it. The John MacArthur Study Bible is the Best Bible to start with if anyone wants to really know about the Lord and Life. 


"Nothing lasts expect the Grace of God by which I stand in Jesus"  Written and sung by Steve Green


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 3, 2015)

lovemylittleboy said:


> Christians believe wholly on the written word of God Period. The Bible is not stories....it is the life of Christ. The OT points to the NT. And Jesus Christ. The book of Proverbs is an instruction book on how to live life in accordance with God and His Word. Nothing false or phony about it. The John MacArthur Study Bible is the Best Bible to start with if anyone wants to really know about the Lord and Life.
> 
> 
> "Nothing lasts expect the Grace of God by which I stand in Jesus"  Written and sung by Steve Green



May I ask WHO determined which books were to be included in the Bible.. ans WHO decided it was the Word of God?


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 3, 2015)

lovemylittleboy said:


> Christians believe wholly on the written word of God Period.


I'm sorry, lovemylittleboy, but this statement is overreach. There are many followers of Christ, myself included, who are not biblical literalists. That does not mean that I dismiss or disrespect the Scriptures. Christianity, as they say, is a very broad church.


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 3, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> May I ask WHO determined which books were to be included in the Bible.. and WHO decided it was the Word of God?



Good questions that are not easily answered.

First question - who determined the biblical canon that we know as the Old and New Testaments?
As they say on Facebook, it's complicated.
Read away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

As for the assertion that the Bible is the Word of God, that is a much more recent event. Christians generally believe that all scripture is inspired by God but not all believe that it is the word of God. The claim that everything we read in the bible is the "inerrant, infallible word of God" became much more popular when Darwin's Origin of Species was published. It was a reaction to the intellectual challenge the theory of evolution made to some bible stories.

In our church when the bible reading is finished we do not say "This is the Word of the Lord". We say "We remember these stories of our faith". I can assure you that we are all followers of Christ, and therefore entitled to call ourselves Christians.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 3, 2015)

There is only one way to God and that is through His Son Jesus Christ.  By Grace Alone Through Faith Alone in Christ Alone.  God  took the initiative to disclose Himself  (reveal) to mankind. Heb.1:1 The vehicles varied, sometimes it was through the created order, at other times through visions/dreams or speaking prophets.

 However, the most complete and understandable self - disclosures were through the propositions of Scripture. The revealed and written word of God is unique in that it is the only revelation of God that is complete and that so clearly declares man's sinfulness and God's provision of the Savior.

The Bible has One Divine Author , written over 1,500 years ago through the pens of almost 40 human writers. "All Scripture is breathed out by God" (2Tim3:16) knowing this first of all , that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation . For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by The Holy Spirit 2 
pet. 1:20-21 By this means the Word of God was protected from human error in its original record by the Holy Spirit Zech.7:12 "the Law and the Words that the Lord of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets"

How doe we know what supposed sacred writings were to be included in the Canon of Scripture and which were to be excluded?
Over the centuries Three widely recognized principles were used to validate those writings which came as a result of divine revelation and inspiration. First the writing had to have a recognized prophet or apostle as its author. Second, the writing could not disagree with or contradict previous Scripture. Third, the writing had to have general consensus by the church as an inspired book. Thus, when various councils met in church history to consider the canon, they did not vote for the canonicity of a book but rather recognized, after the fact, what God had already written.

With regard to the OT, by the time of Christ all of the OT had been written and accepted in the Jewish community. The last book , Malachi had been completed about 430 B.C. Not only does the OT canon of Christ's day conform to the OT which has since been used throughout the centuries but it does not contain the Uninspired and spurious Apocrypha, that group of 14 rogue writings which were written after Malachi and attached to the OT about 200-150B.C. in the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT called the Septuagint(LXX) , appearing to this very day in some versions of the Bible. However not one passage from the Apocrypha is cited by any NT writer, nor did Jesus affirm any of it as he recognized the OT canon of His era  The same key tests of canonicity that applied to the OT also applied to the NT. 

God anticipated man's and Satan's malice towards the Scripture with divine promises to preserve His Word . The very continued existence of Scripture is guaranteed in ISA.40:8, "the grass withers , the flower fades, but the Word of God will stand forever" This even means that no inspired Scripture has been lost in the past and still awaits rediscovery 
As Christianity spread, it is certainly true people desired to have the Bible in their own language which required translations  from the original Hebrew and Aramaic languages of the OT and the Greek of the NT. Not only did the work of translators provide an opportunity for error, but publication, which was done by hand copying until the printed press arrived c. A.D. 1450 also afforded continual possibilities of error. Through the centuries the practitioners of textual criticism, a precise science, have discovered , preserved, catalogued, evaluated, and published an amazing array of biblical manuscripts from both OT and NT. In fact, the number of existing biblical manuscripts dramatically outdistances the existing fragments of any other ancient literature. By comparing text with text, the textual critic can confidently determine what the original prophetic / apostolic , inspired writing contained
In other Words QS GOD!


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 3, 2015)

No it is not over reached Dame. If one does believe the whole Bible is the Inspired Word Of God they just simply are not believers of the One True God. The church is not broad....there are many religions but only one true God. Broad is the road that leads to destruction, Narrow is the road to heaven Everybody wants to believe their own version . But the Bible cannot be picked apart to meet peoples own satisfaction.
Jesus said "I am the Way , the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through Me" John 14:6


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 3, 2015)

I don't want to be rude QS and Debby but that is twisted thinking.  Wow.  But everyone believes what they believe. And are entitled to it they have the free will choice.  I am not saying that to be rude in anyway or anything , it is just twisted thinking of all that the Bible teaches. But oh well I don't argue religion I just tell you what the Bible says. Not of me at all.


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 3, 2015)

I do believe that I did say most Christians believe that the scriptures are inspired by God. 

Many also say that Jesus himself is the Word of God, the Living Word that was there in the beginning.
That is why John 14:6 makes sense. 
We must be careful not to allow reverence for the scriptures turn into worship of the scriptures.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 3, 2015)

You are right . The Scriptures lead us to Worship God. If we worship any thing other than God , it becomes an idol . And the worship of idols are forbidden


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 4, 2015)

My point exactly.


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 4, 2015)

I normally steer clear of these discussions as I still remember having to bite my tongue frequently when I lived in East TN in the bible belt.  I worked with several who took the bible literally and arguing would have been pointless as well as creating ill feelings in the workplace.  Thankfully, none tried to_ save_ me. 

I do get really annoyed when evangelicals make the claim that only followers of Jesus go the heaven and the rest are going to hell (don't really believe in either anyway).  They are saying that the 75% of the world who aren't christians are going to hell.  Such arrogance and ignorance.


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 4, 2015)

Arrogance and ignorance are widespread across the globe. 
It is not solely an attribute of certain Christian communities.


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 4, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Arrogance and ignorance are widespread across the globe.
> It is not solely an attribute of certain Christian communities.



Yes it is widespread, but my experiences living in the bible belt showed me that the majority of fundamentalists were narrow-minded and thought they were bad christians if they questioned what their pastor told them. I had people try to shove a free bible into my hands while walking down the street.  A few told me I'd go to hell if I didn't find Jesus.


----------



## hollydolly (Apr 4, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Yes it is widespread, but my experiences living in the bible belt showed me that the majority of fundamentalists were narrow-minded and thought they were bad christians if they questioned what their pastor told them. I had people try to shove a free bible into my hands while walking down the street.  A few told me I'd go to hell if I didn't find Jesus.



..and you said Go to hell yourself or I'll ram this book....etc.. didn't ya?  :lol:


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 4, 2015)

Fundamentalists tend to be concentrated in zones. They are not representative of global Christianity. 
Nor was biblical fundamentalism common until the late 19th century.
Yes, they can be pushy but they are not the majority.

For what it's worth, I teach my Sunday School kids to think and question.
I model it for them.


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 4, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> ..and you said Go to hell yourself or I'll ram this book....etc.. didn't ya?  :lol:



LOL, the one trying to give me a bible was okay, he just said Jesus loves you. There was a shop that sold all the What Would Jesus Do bumper stickers, etc.  Even billboards stating this.  

For a while I took a part-time job working on Saturdays in the parking lot of the Baptist Hospital.  Sat in a booth collecting the fees, but mostly just reading or listening to music.  Often someone would try to get me to go to their church.  I could have just kept my mouth shut, but usually I'd politely reply that I didn't go to church and occasionally I'd say I'm not a christian.  This infuriated one guy who told me I was going to hell and I could just go worship my Buddha or my Goddesses or whatever it was and he screamed this at me.
  :crying:


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 4, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Fundamentalists tend to be concentrated in zones. They are not representative of global Christianity.
> Nor was biblical fundamentalism common until the late 19th century.
> Yes, they can be pushy but they are not the majority.
> 
> ...



No it isn't representative of all christians.  I did specify it was fundamentalists, and from what I've experienced it's mostly in the US and moreso in the bible belt.  They don't even like catholics.  I was raised a catholic and my husband is a catholic.  I've never seen catholics behave this way.

From living in Uganda they appeared to be fundamentalists, even some of the catholics.  Most of the missionaries who went to Uganda were fundamentalists from the US.  They encouraged the anti-gay laws there and seemed to have helped fuel the push for the execution of gays. Although they backed away when they got blamed.


----------



## hollydolly (Apr 4, 2015)

As you know we don't generally get that kind of pestering here in the UK..certainly very rarely in the street if at all... Yes we get the Jehovas witnesses or Mormons knocking on the door occasionally on a Sunday morning  but other than that we're pretty much evangelistic free in the UK


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 4, 2015)

hollydolly said:


> As you know we don't generally get that kind of pestering here in the UK..certainly very rarely in the street if at all... Yes we get the Jehovas witnesses or Mormons knocking on the door occasionally on a Sunday morning  but other than that we're pretty much evangelistic free in the UK



I'm am so grateful for that!  In 15 years there's only been one person who came to the door, not sure if she was JW or not.  She never tried to sell me a leaflet.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 4, 2015)

On a humourous note, I once had an evangelical tell me that I was going to hell. My response? Been there, got the tattoo. I was not having a good day! Should have see the person's face!


----------



## hollydolly (Apr 4, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> On a humourous note, I once had an evangelical tell me that I was going to hell. My response? Been there, got the tattoo. I was not having a good day! Should have see the person's face!



:lol1:


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 4, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> On a humourous note, I once had an evangelical tell me that I was going to hell. My response? Been there, got the tattoo. I was not having a good day! Should have see the person's face!



Good one!


----------



## Debby (Apr 4, 2015)

lovemylittleboy said:


> I don't want to be rude QS and Debby but that is twisted thinking.  Wow.  But everyone believes what they believe. And are entitled to it they have the free will choice.  I am not saying that to be rude in anyway or anything , it is just twisted thinking of all that the Bible teaches. But oh well I don't argue religion I just tell you what the Bible says. Not of me at all.




Twisted thinking?  I pointed out words from your own book.  Not sure exactly which of QS's comments you take exception to, but I find it interesting that you take exception to someone bringing up the words of Jesus where he tells the followers to 'be like little children'.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 4, 2015)

twisted thinking...?    See... I find believing in fairytales as an adult to be the same...   We all have our opinions on what "twisted thinking" is...


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 4, 2015)

Thank you Dame


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 4, 2015)

See Debby tis is what I called twisted thinking , it is what you said you "believe what happens too" about QS comment on not believing in heaven and this reincarnated in pods thing. I find it just so very sad you both don't believe in Heaven .  That is all. Nothing more or less.  I forget who said they stay out of these discussions , is probably right. There I shall too. But I will always defend the Bible and my Lord.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 4, 2015)

lovemylittleboy said:


> See Debby tis is what I called twisted thinking , it is what you said you "believe what happens too" about QS comment on not believing in heaven and this reincarnated in pods thing. I find it just so very sad you both don't believe in Heaven .  That is all. Nothing more or less.  I forget who said they stay out of these discussions , is probably right. There I shall too. But I will always defend the Bible and my Lord.




That would be your right... We are both allowed to think the others thinking is "twisted"   Don't feel sad for me..  I am happy and relieved that I have finally broken free of the dogma that creates so much division and hatred in the world... My belief gives me more comfort than the belief I have to meet some sort of criteria invented by  men for profit and control.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 4, 2015)

"To be like Little  Children. ... _this is how Jesus characterized conversion._ Like the Beatitudes, it pictures faith as simple, helpless, trusting dependence of those who have no resources of their own. Like children, they have no achievements and no accomplishments to offer or commend themselves with. It just simply means to humble oneself  Luke refers to little children as infants. (Luke 18:5). So of course it don't mean older children.  But it is just saying to the one who humbles himself and comes to true faith in Jesus Christ.  The mind set of a small child who depends on his parents. Well I don't know how to get it across to you but ......have a nice day.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 4, 2015)

Like I said... It's all about control..  Don't let people know too much or have individual thoughts or questions..  Keep them scared and submissive and you can pick their pockets.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 4, 2015)

But QS, The Bible was NOT invented by a man. It is God breathed. *Religion on the other hand, is man made*. Man just tries to find a way to get to Heaven himself. Man wants to olive the way he chooses, doesn't want anything in the way of his life style. And those that preach for profit and control are obviously false teachers which are also described in the Bible and we are warned to stay clear of them. And yes unless they change their ways they will be in Hell when their day comes.  
  I am not religious I am just a follower of Jesus Christ  and trust in God's Word.   You have a nice day .


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 4, 2015)

It is not about control. Not at all , not in the least. *It is about what Jesus Christ did on the Cross for sinful man. *


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 4, 2015)

All the books of the BIble were written by man... and man decided what books were to be included and omitted from the Bible..   It is a very nice guide for living using examples and parables.. .. but certainly not the "Word of God"...    If anything, It's what man "imagined" the "Word of God" should be.  

Organized religion started when Priests decided there was lots and lots of money to be made by preying on peoples' superstitions and fears.  If you say.. "God wants this.. or God want's that, and if you don't do it you will go to eternal punishment...  HOWEVER,  we can help you for a small donation..   you can become enormously wealthy and live like kings..   Just look at the wealth organized religion has amassed...    IN addition, If you can convince Goverments to let you keep that wealth TAX FREE.... you have conned everyone..


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Like I said... It's all about control..  Don't let people know too much or have individual thoughts or questions..  Keep them scared and submissive and you can pick their pockets.



I've certainly seen some of that but it is not my experience where I worship. 
I've served as an elder and as Treasurer and I can assure you that there is precious little money in the bank and even less control over the worshippers.

QS, has this been your personal experience or is it just an impression from the outside ?


----------



## tnthomas (Apr 4, 2015)

Constantine the Great was instrumental in organizing Christianity, and used Christianity as a weapon of conquest and power for world domination. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_ChristianitySome written works were not included in the "official" Bible, an interesting read here: http://notinthebible.com/*

*To me, the important thing is Christ's actual words, and not the "eye-for-an-eye" passages from the old testament that modern day _in_name_only_ Christians like to reference.   Certain groups of Christians LIKE the idea of saying that they love Jesus, but it is evident by their political views that the DON'T "LIKE" what Jesus stands for..the principles for which he died on the cross.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> All the books of the BIble were written by man... and man decided what books were to be included and omitted from the Bible..   It is a very nice guide for living using examples and parables.. .. but certainly not the "Word of God"...    If anything, It's what man "imagined" the "Word of God" should be.
> 
> Organized religion started when Priests decided there was lots and lots of money to be made by preying on peoples' superstitions and fears.  If you say.. "God wants this.. or God want's that, and if you don't do it you will go to eternal punishment...  HOWEVER,  we can help you for a small donation..   you can become enormously wealthy and live like kings..   Just look at the wealth organized religion has amassed...    IN addition, If you can convince Goverments to let you keep that wealth TAX FREE.... you have conned everyone..



No That is wrong .. Those men that were chosen by God were inspired by the Holy Spirit God brought the Word to them to write. Anything other than what God spoke to them by anyone else teaching what you believe is all about money is False. Jesus went into the Temple and over turned all the money changers and the selling of  offerings to gain money , cheat the people. He said , "My house shall be called a house of prayer, but you make it a den of thieves" Matt 21:12.
 He has much to teach about money. And it is not for gain .  So lets just agree to disagree.


----------



## AZ Jim (Apr 4, 2015)

There can be no winners in this discussion.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 4, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> There can be no winners in this discussion.



Absolutely Right AZJim. Just have to agree to disagree.


----------



## rickary (Apr 4, 2015)

Debby said:


> [_Christians think: 1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV - For now we see through a glass ...For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.]_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautifully said Debby.  I love the way you interpret.


----------



## rickary (Apr 4, 2015)

Dame Warrigal said:


> Good questions that are not easily answered.
> 
> First question - who determined the biblical canon that we know as the Old and New Testaments?
> As they say on Facebook, it's complicated.
> ...



Very Very well said Dame Warrigal.


----------



## rickary (Apr 4, 2015)

Well said lovemylittletommyboy.  I would just like to say that I really enjoyed the discussion by all participants.  Not that my word means anything but I read the complete thread and will reread it later.. Really really enjoyed it.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 4, 2015)

Thanks rickary.



rickary said:


> Well said lovemylittletommyboy.  I would just like to say that I really enjoyed the discussion by all participants.  Not that my word means anything but I read the complete thread and will reread it later.. Really really enjoyed it.


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 4, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> There can be no winners in this discussion.



 It's not about winning. A question was raised and people are expressing their differing views.
 That is healthy unless someone wants to win an argument.


----------



## Sunny (Apr 4, 2015)

I like Mark Twain's quote: "I like heaven for the climate, hell for the company."


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 4, 2015)

Sunny. That is sad. But most will find it amusing I suppose. have a wonderful evening.


----------



## rickary (Apr 5, 2015)

lovemylittleboy said:


> Sunny. That is sad. But most will find it amusing I suppose. have a wonderful evening.



I agree lovemylittleboy it is nothing to joke about or make fun of like some have done. It is disrespectful and nothing to do with what the USA was founded on.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 5, 2015)

rickary said:


> I agree lovemylittleboy it is nothing to joke about or make fun of like some have done. It is disrespectful and nothing to do with what the USA was founded on.



Thank you rickary  One day everyone will see Him either for judgment or reward. Whether they believe it or not. It will come to pass


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 5, 2015)

lovemylittleboy said:


> Thank you rickary  One day everyone will see Him either for judgment or reward. Whether they believe it or not. It will come to pass



Well...  No matter what happens.... SOME people are either going to be  really suprised... or perhaps really disappointed..


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 5, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Well...  No matter what happens.... SOME people are either going to be  really suprised... or perhaps really disappointed..



I am sure they will greatly surprised at the fact they made the wrong choices and greatly disappointed that they can't change their minds. The ship will have sailed already. "It a fearful thing to fall into the Hands of the Living God. "


----------



## John C (Apr 5, 2015)

I'm interested in the concept of having been visited by extremely intelligent beings from outside our solar system.  There are volumes of information to support this idea.  One thought is that a planet orbiting our sun only once in thousands of years is the source.  A few arrogant astronomers think they know a lot about the universe but they are fooling themselves.


----------



## rickary (Apr 5, 2015)

lovemylittleboy said:


> I am sure they will greatly surprised at the fact they made the wrong choices and greatly disappointed that they can't change their minds. The ship will have sailed already. "It a fearful thing to fall into the Hands of an (our) angry God."



I cannot agree with that if our lord told us to be as children to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, I do not see him as an angry God.


----------



## rickary (Apr 5, 2015)

John C said:


> I'm interested in the concept of having been visited by extremely intelligent beings from outside our solar system.  There are volumes of information to support this idea.  One thought is that a planet orbiting our sun only once in thousands of years is the source.  A few arrogant astronomers think they know a lot about the universe but they are fooling themselves.



I agree John C.  I think man knows nothing of our universe, but I do think that our instructions to live on this planet comes from what we call God.  I do believe Jesus Christ was the only Human that lived the way God subscribed.  God Jesus loves humanity can I.  I can love humanity Jesus God
.


----------



## drifter (Apr 5, 2015)

> Post originally posted by QuickSilver:5
> 
> Originally Posted by *lovemylittleboy
> *Christians believe wholly on the written word of God Period. The Bible is not stories....it is the life of Christ. The OT points to the NT. And Jesus Christ. The book of Proverbs is an instruction book on how to live life in accordance with God and His Word. Nothing false or phony about it. The John MacArthur Study Bible is the Best Bible to start with if anyone wants to really know about the Lord and Life.
> ...



*********************



I Think early church councils met and determined which writings would be included in the bible, sometime around 325 AD and in the fourth and fifth centuries, these council had names, Canacaea or something like that, the council of Trent and another in the fifth century. It's been so long since I've looked at it that I'm a bit fuzzy on the details. The Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Calvinists were involved at some point. But it was Church Councils that got together and made the decision what would be included in the Bible.


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 5, 2015)

Calvinists? Is that why we have the Apocrypha?
We have an old family bible that contains the apocryphal books.

A couple of good stories in those books e.g. Daniel and the serpent, but I believe they were left out because they really had nothing to add that was very valuable.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 5, 2015)

rickary said:


> I cannot agree with that if our lord told us to be as children to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, I do not see him as an angry God.



rickary, that is problem that plagues people , the belief that God is just all love. God is indeed the God of Love , but He also is a God of wrath. He is a Righteous Judge. Sin has consequences, even if you have been saved, there are still consequences to the sins. 

He is Forgiving yes, He will not remember them if we turn to Him in repentance for forgiveness of sins, but until we do that He is not going to over look our sin. He sees all and knows all. He is Omniscient (knows all), He is Omnipotent (God posses all power), and He is Omnipresent (God is present everywhere).

"For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For What can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For this His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature , have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God , they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools,and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Romans 1: 18-23.

Yes unless we become as little children we cannot enter the Kingdom of God. But you see that is the mindset of a humbleness , submitting yourself to God and depending on Him . Trusting Him. We must empty ourselves of us and give ourselves to God. Having Faith in God Believing Who He is and all that He is. And "faith comes by hearing and hearing through the Word  of God" Romans 10:17. Even our faith is a gift from God. We cannot believe if God hasn't given us the gift of Faith. 
2 Corinthians 5:7  "For we walk by faith not by sight"  "For by Grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 5, 2015)

The Apocrypha was part of the KJV for 274 years until being removed in 1885 AD A portion of these books were called deuterocanonical books by some entities such as the Catholic church. Many claim they should have never ben included in the first place raising doubt of its validity and believing it was not God-Inspired. (for instance, a reference about magic seems inconsistent with the rest of the Bible :Tobit6:5-8) Others believe it should never have been removed-that it was considered part of the Bible for nearly 2,00 years before it was recently removed a little more than 100 yrs ago.

 Some say it was removed because of not finding the books in the original Hebrew Manuscripts. Some claim it wasn't removed by the church, but by the printers to cut costs in distributing Bibles in the United States. Both sides tend to cite the same verses that Warn Against Adding or Subtracting from the Bible: Revelation 22:18-19 Fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls dating back to before 70A.D. contained parts of the Apocrypha  Books in Hebrew including Sirach and Tobit. 
Martin Luther said," Apocrypha--that is books which are not regarded as equal to the Holy Scriptures, and yet are profitable for good reading"


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 6, 2015)

Who removed it, and what was the authority?


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

lovemylittleboy said:


> Thank you rickary  One day everyone will see Him either for judgment or reward. Whether they believe it or not. It will come to pass



I know this is pointless, but....
This kind of arrogance, that you are right and the 75% of the world who are not christian are wrong, is what turns people off.  It does not make people want to suddenly 'be saved'.  I also find that fundamentalist christians dismiss any other beliefs without even learning anything about them.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I know this is pointless, but....
> This kind of arrogance, that you are right and the 75% of the world who are not christian are wrong, is what turns people off.  It does not make people want to suddenly 'be saved'.  I also find that fundamentalist christians dismiss any other beliefs without even learning anything about them.



Best post on this thread..  and only pointing out what turns most people off to Christianity.  No one likes to be told they are going to be burning in eternal hell if they don't subscribe lock stock and barrel to the teachings of the Christian Church. No one likes a finger wagged in their faces for having views and opinions that may contradict theirs.   My advise to Christians is to live your life the way YOU see fit and believe what YOU want to believe, but looking down ones nose at others is only going to get more people turned of and running away from the Church in droves.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Is there any hope for a devout hedonist like me?


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 6, 2015)

Depends what you're hoping for - a four course meal or an orgy?

Wanna know the odds on either?


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Both!  But it depends on what age I am when I "change lanes."  :love_heart:


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 6, 2015)

Well, the odds on the first are very short and 
on the second you've got Buckleys and Nunn.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Buckleys and Nunn?  Should I look forward in happy anticipation?


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 6, 2015)

Nup. Even shorter odds than London to a brick on.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Seems like I need a translator or perhaps you are tippling befor bed...


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 6, 2015)

Try Google. These are familiar expressions for people our age when I come from.

Either one indicates no chance for hedonism in the near future.
Perhaps when Hell freezes over?


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Furriner stuff, I should have known...


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Furriner stuff, I should have known...



Hey Ralphy, unless you are native American your ancestors were furriners.  layful:


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

We sorted this all out with a revolution as you may recall, and the natives were furriners, too, as they came the long way from Asia, so anybody who isn't an American WASP is a furriner...


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> We sorted this all out with a revolution as you may recall, and the natives were furriners, too, as they came the long way from Asia, so anybody who isn't an American WASP is a furriner...



So you have to be a P for protestant to be a real American?


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

In this case, Annie, one could make a good case for the P referencing something else, speaking purely from an objective counselor's perspective! Lol.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Well, I was baptized as one, and that what counts in my book...


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Baptized or exorcisised?


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

I beg your pardon, I was a good Christian boy until I saw the light...


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Baptized or exorcisised?



I can see him scaring an exorcist!


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> So you have to be a P for protestant to be a real American?



Some would say so..


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Some would say so..



True.  They're probably the same ones that would call me a traitor for moving away.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

QS. I still maintain that those people who subscribe to that opinion, are manifestations of another word beginning with P. will leave it to your stellar imagination to confirm. Lol.


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> QS. I still maintain that those people who subscribe to that opinion, are manifestations of another word beginning with P. will leave it to your stellar imagination to confirm. Lol.



I have a favourite P word I could apply to that.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

As a Canadian, I am confused re why it would be traitorous to leave America. Canucks are as patriotic as anybody, but I can't imagine anyone being irate at me choosing to live in a different country, unless I did something that reflected badly on Canada.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Yes, traitor, and you know how we deal with them.  Exorcism is primarily the province of C, not P...


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Not so, Druids also perform exorcisms. I would know.


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> As a Canadian, I am confused re why it would be traitorous to leave America. Canucks are as patriotic as anybody, but I can't imagine anyone being irate at me choosing to live in a different country, unless I did something that reflected badly on Canada.



I've been called anti-American by quite a few online and even some in my family think that.  Some have accused me of escaping instead of staying behind and trying to fix the system.  Many just ask how I could possibly leave the _greatest_ country in the world when everyone in the world would give anything to live there.  Pointless to reply to them.


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Yes, traitor, and you know how we deal with them.  Exorcism is primarily the province of C, not P...



Really?  Are you going to have me executed next time I visit?  Should I perfect a Scottish accent and use my UK passport intead?


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Not so, Druids also perform exorcisms. I would know.



Can you perform one on Ralphy?  I was a Celtic Pagan in the 90's but am still interested in it.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Wow! Tunnel vision or what? You are supposed to fix the system all by yourself? Wow. Wow. Seems xenophobic to me. I think you are a fine addition to any country that is fortunate to have you.:love_heart:


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

I am uncertain. It may be too late....


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> QS. I still maintain that those people who subscribe to that opinion, are manifestations of another word beginning with P. will leave it to your stellar imagination to confirm. Lol.





YES!!   Poopie heads


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Wow! Tunnel vision or what? You are supposed to fix the system all by yourself? Wow. Wow. Seems xenophobic to me. I think you are a fine addition to any country that is fortunate to have you.:love_heart:



Why thank you!     They assumed I had left because I hated the politics or just the country in general when those were not the reasons at all.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Once detained you will be extended the full services of our legal system which is the best in the world...


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> YES!!   Poopie heads



My word rhymes with stick.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Ah, yes, Ralphy, guilty until proven rich... Works for me!


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Once detained you will be extended the full services of our legal system which is the best in the world...



Who says they are the best in the world?


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Mine too Annie. As a Canuck, I can also think of one that rhymes with puck, for the hockey fans you know!


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Yep!


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

Dumb puck is good too...


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Well, you probably won't get the death penalty, but years will be added if you keep up the glibness...


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Dumb puck is good too...



Aye, that'll work.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

I have zero clue which way this thread has gone....


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Well, you probably won't get the death penalty, but years will be added if you keep up the glibness...



Does that mean they'll stop sending me pensions?


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> I have zero clue which way this thread has gone....



I'd say it's definitely veered away from christianity by an unruly trio.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Unruly, yes, Annie, but not dumb! Lol.


----------



## Debby (Apr 6, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Once detained you will be extended the full services of our legal system which is the best in the world...




And Eric Gardiner will attest to that!


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

well...  there goes the lighthearted banter..


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Thank you, our resident sharpshooter! Bullseye for the Canadian!


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Don't worry, Q.S. some of us can (and do) laugh at everything!


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Thank you, our resident sharpshooter! Bullseye for the Canadian!



Well...  another one...  what's with the Canadians?  Never let a chance to spit in the eye of the US?   sad


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

Sometime light hearted joking should be left at that...


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Q.S. I was joking. Trying to recover the lightness of the conversation. Distraction, if you will. I have never intentionally spit in the eye of the U.S. I f my irreverence has offended you, I apologise. No offence was intended. Please do not assume Canadians have some sort of animus regarding the United States. I do not, I deal with individuals, not countries, otherwise I couldn't do my job effectively, and I would be a b***h.


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Hmm, I have a hard time forgiving furriners and, come to think of it, anyone who isn't a WASP...


----------



## Warrigal (Apr 6, 2015)

What about waspish furriners?


----------



## Ralphy1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Furriners don't count.  They can be any crazy thing they want, don't make no difference to me...


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Unruly, yes, Annie, but not dumb! Lol.



Oh no, not dumb.


----------



## drifter (Apr 6, 2015)

Bless you all. It's said, 'confession is good for the soul'; so is discussion, for folks our age. If discussion gets a little rowdy, take it with a grain of salt, realizing also loneliness can be a terrible thing. Cheers.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

drifter said:


> Bless you all. It's said, 'confession is good for the soul'; so is discussion, for folks our age. If discussion gets a little rowdy, take it with a grain of salt, realizing also loneliness can be a terrible thing. Cheers.



boredom too...  don't forget boredom


----------



## drifter (Apr 6, 2015)

Ah, yes, I did forget. Mostly why I'm here. A tip of the hat to ya.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 6, 2015)

Ok Now The Apocrypha was never in the Protestant Bible. (KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV......)  It was in the Catholic Bible and had to do with their Beliefs and so it would have been up to the catholic authorities . Even they did not  believe it was God-Inspired.. This as all I know about it Dame. What I have written already is all I can tell you I know.


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Ralphy1 said:


> Furriners don't count.  They can be any crazy thing they want, don't make no difference to me...



So, according to you, I'm a furriner.  So I don't count?    But I have your permission to act crazy?  layful:


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 6, 2015)

Yes confession is good for us and we are commanded by God to confess our sins .  It is good to discuss  as well with each other the things we don't understand and try to get understanding. God will give us the wisdom and understanding if we only ask. We are not to argue. But speak with kindness....... And if it gets heated or rowdy as Drifter put it we just agree to disagree


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Annie, Ralphy's just got his redneck on. Lol.


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Annie, Ralphy's just got his redneck on. Lol.



I know.  Ralphy's just funnin' with us.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I know.  Ralphy's just funnin' with us.



Sometimes it's hard to tell...


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Sometimes it's hard to tell...



Yea, Ralphy is a mystery!


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

An enigma....  a legend in his own mind...


----------



## drifter (Apr 6, 2015)

I am dropping out of this conversation because I have exhausted all my knowledge about the holy writ, the Almighty, and things religious. It is doubtful whether or not I should have gotten involved in the first place as any one paying attention would have seen right off, all knowledge I possess could be carried around on the back of a chigger. Good day to some of you, good night to the rest.


----------



## rickary (Apr 6, 2015)

I do not blame you drifter, this was a very good discussion, until the furriners, as they call it, turned the thread into their own personal conversation.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 6, 2015)

Sometimes people need to play. No one gets out of this world alive, warmth and laughter can be just as valuable in some cases as prayer, in fact, for some of us, that is exactly what they are. Pax.


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Sometimes people need to play. No one gets out of this world alive, warmth and laughter can be just as valuable in some cases as prayer, in fact, for some of us, that is exactly what they are. Pax.



Yes, and we needed to lighten things up after being told we'd go to hell if we didn't change our ways.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 6, 2015)

Oh Drifter I am so sorry things went sour. It was a good discussion for awhile. That just goes to show you how Satan works against those who truly want to know the Lord. They really should have their own thread for their nonsense. But it is to be expected.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 6, 2015)

yep so sad.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Yes, and we needed to lighten things up after being told we'd go to hell if we didn't change our ways.



Well since we are going to hell, we might as well enoy our time here... right?   For some reason Dana Carvy keeps popping into my mind!!  lol!!!


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Well since we are going to hell, we might as well enoy our time here... right?



Might as well.  Shall we have a party for Satan's mischievous little helpers?


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Might as well.  Shall we have a party for Satan's mischievous little helpers?



lol!!!  For sure... we are beyond hope anyway...  You little devil you..  hahahaha


----------



## Ameriscot (Apr 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> lol!!!  For sure... we are beyond hope anyway...  You little devil you..  hahahaha



Partaaaayyy!!  :very_drunk:


----------



## rickary (Apr 6, 2015)

lovemylittleboy said:


> rickary, that is problem that plagues people , the belief that God is just all love. God is indeed the God of Love , but He also is a God of wrath. He is a Righteous Judge. Sin has consequences, even if you have been saved, there are still consequences to the sins.
> 
> He is Forgiving yes, He will not remember them if we turn to Him in repentance for forgiveness of sins, but until we do that He is not going to over look our sin. He sees all and knows all. He is Omniscient (knows all), He is Omnipotent (God posses all power), and He is Omnipresent (God is present everywhere).
> 
> ...



Very well said lovemylittleboy.  I agree.


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 6, 2015)

You don't think Christians enjoy the things God gave us? We certainly do! We are as human as you are  Shalimar.  And Ameriscot you should do some investigating on the matter before you make fun of everyone and QS too. Even atheist believe God is real or they wouldn't try so hard to make him disappear would they? "Even the demons believe and tremble at His name"


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Sometimes people need to play. No one gets out of this world alive, warmth and laughter can be just as valuable in some cases as prayer, in fact, for some of us, that is exactly what they are. Pax.



 Well this fallen Christain seems to remember that the Bible had a lot to say about sitting in judgement of others...    Like Jesus..said in the Sermon on the Mount

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (_Matthew 7:1-5)
_
And 

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness..." (_Matthew 23:25-28)
_
AND

Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?" They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more." (_John 8:1-11)_


----------



## lovemylittleboy (Apr 6, 2015)

rickary said:


> Very well said lovemylittleboy.  I agree.



Thank You rickary.


----------



## QuickSilver (Apr 6, 2015)

[h=3]1 Corinthians 5:12-13[/h]For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

[h=3]Luke 6:37[/h]“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

[h=3]Romans 2:1-3[/h]Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?


[h=3]James 4:12[/h]There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?


----------

