# Does anyone else feel something is missing when it comes to Covid/Covid Vaccine??



## Ladybj

I know a lot of people are over the "Covid" talk.... so am I.  However, I felt the need for this post.  I truly feel there is a BIG piece of a puzzle missing when it comes to COVID and the Vaccine.  I feel it in my gut.  I am probably on the boat alone and that's ok.  I feel one day, one day...truth will prevail.  There will be more studies on the vaccine - such as which vaccine has the most side effects...which has already started, etc. and MUCH more.

Why don't they come up with some type of med to help people that has contacted the virus that end up in the hospital??  Taking the vaccine is like putting a bandage on your finger just in case you get a sore.  If I get the virus and end up in the hospital do you have anything that can help me?  As we know the vaccine does not mean you will not contact Covid.. WOW


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## Ruthanne

No.


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## Aunt Marg

I sure do...

- From day one I refused to believe one stitch of conflicting information being presented to the public, just as I remain a non-believer.

- I do not believe the vaccine prevents, mitigates, or is the cure.

- I do not believe masks are preventing or lessening case counts.

- I do not believe Covid-19 will be conquered through the immunization of the worlds population.

- I do not trust authorities involved at the top.


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## win231

I also feel there are _many _pieces of the puzzle missing.  I'm not so sure about truth prevailing at any time.
As for treating Covid patients, I'm surprised that people aren't thinking, "Hmmmm, where are all these "550,000" Covid patients dying?  They're dying in hospitals - surrounded by doctors & nurses.
So.......the people who are pushing the vaccine on us are the same people who can't save so many Covid patients.


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## Don M.

Given that this pandemic is only just a little over a year from when it became a crisis, I'm amazed that we've seen this much progress in controlling it.  In the past, it took far longer to come up with any effective treatments....polio, smallpox, etc., etc.  Of course, we don't know just how effective the current vaccines will be....long term....or if they will work on the mutations of this virus.  We are truly in untested waters, and no one knows how things will look a year, or more, from now....in that regard, we are All "Guinea pigs"....and can only hope that the scientists are correct.


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## Ladybj

win231 said:


> I also feel there are _many _pieces of the puzzle missing.  I'm not so sure about truth prevailing at any time.
> As for treating Covid patients, I'm surprised that people aren't thinking, "Hmmmm, where are all these "550,000" Covid patients dying?  They're dying in hospitals - surrounded by doctors & nurses.
> So.......the people who are pushing the vaccine on us are the same people who can't save so many Covid patients.


EXACTLY!!!!!


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## Aunt Marg

Don M. said:


> *Given that this pandemic is only just a little over a year from when it became a crisis, I'm amazed that we've seen this much progress in controlling it.*  In the past, it took far longer to come up with any effective treatments....polio, smallpox, etc., etc.  Of course, we don't know just how effective the current vaccines will be....long term....or if they will work on the mutations of this virus.  We are truly in untested waters, and no one knows how things will look a year, or more, from now....in that regard, we are All "Guinea pigs"....and can only hope that the scientists are correct.


As far as I'm concerned I see no progress having been made.

I hear a whole lot of chatter and cheap talk, but conclusive evidence is seriously lacking IMO.

Some countries are onto their third lockdown, and that tells me what's currently being done isn't working.


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## Ladybj

Don M. said:


> Given that this pandemic is only just a little over a year from when it became a crisis, I'm amazed that we've seen this much progress in controlling it.  In the past, it took far longer to come up with any effective treatments....polio, smallpox, etc., etc.  Of course, we don't know just how effective the current vaccines will be....long term....or if they will work on the mutations of this virus.  We are truly in untested waters, and no one knows how things will look a year, or more, from now....in that regard, we are All "Guinea pigs"....and can only hope that the scientists are correct.


I agree... at this point there are soooo many unanswered questions.


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## Ladybj

Aunt Marg said:


> As far as I'm concerned I see no progress having been made.
> 
> I hear a whole lot of chatter and cheap talk, but conclusive evidence is seriously lacking IMO.
> 
> Some countries are onto their third lockdown, and that tells me what's currently being done isn't working.


That's why I feel a piece of a puzzle is missing...jmo.


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## Aunt Marg

Ladybj said:


> That's why I feel a piece of a puzzle is missing...jmo.


I'm glad to know I'm not the only one, Ladybj.


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## Ladybj

Aunt Marg said:


> I'm glad to know I'm not the only one, Ladybj.


You are definitely not alone Aunt Marg


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## SeaBreeze

Don M. said:


> Given that this pandemic is only just a little over a year from when it became a crisis, I'm amazed that we've seen this much progress in controlling it.  In the past, it took far longer to come up with any effective treatments....polio, smallpox, etc., etc.  Of course, we don't know just how effective the current vaccines will be....long term....or if they will work on the mutations of this virus.  We are truly in untested waters, and no one knows how things will look a year, or more, from now....in that regard, we are All "Guinea pigs"....and can only hope that the scientists are correct.


You're right Don, this is a new coronavirus and even the experts are still observing and learning more about it all the time.  The fact that there are new variants just complicates things.  I think we have made much progress with the vaccines we have, no hard facts are set for the results, time will tell what has been effective and what needs to be improved.  

I'm happy to get the COVID-19 vaccine, as opposed to being hospitalized, on a ventilator for an indeterminate amount of time, and perhaps dying there.  The over half million Americans who have been affected by the virus and buried by their families is nothing to take lightly.  There's no magic pills here, this isn't the flu or the common cold.  If more people took it seriously, we'd be in much better shape in the USA today.

People can choose to do what they want, but I advise to wear a mask when around people, wash your hands often, and take advantage of the vaccination.  It benefits those who get it, those they come in contact with, and the country as a whole.


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## win231

Don M. said:


> Given that this pandemic is only just a little over a year from when it became a crisis, I'm amazed that we've seen this much progress in controlling it.  In the past, it took far longer to come up with any effective treatments....polio, smallpox, etc., etc.  Of course, we don't know just how effective the current vaccines will be....long term....or if they will work on the mutations of this virus.  We are truly in untested waters, and no one knows how things will look a year, or more, from now....in that regard, we are All "Guinea pigs"....and can only hope that the scientists are correct.


I like "Positive Thinking," but only when it indicates positive results.
I'm amazed at how _little _progress has been made.  Masks, social distancing & a vaccine that may be useless is not "Progress" to me.
And (assuming they're not exaggerating) 550,000 deaths is not progress, either.


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## SeaBreeze

win231 said:


> I like "Positive Thinking," but only when it indicates positive results.
> I'm amazed at how _little _progress has been made.  Masks, social distancing & a vaccine that may be useless is not "Progress" to me.
> And (assuming they're not exaggerating) 550,000 deaths is not progress, either.


There would be much more progress if people simply followed the guidelines from the beginning, and not so many would be dead.


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## Ladybj

SeaBreeze said:


> You're right Don, this is a new coronavirus and even the experts are still observing and learning more about it all the time.  The fact that there are new variants just complicates things.  I think we have made much progress with the vaccines we have, no hard facts are set for the results, time will tell what has been effective and what needs to be improved.
> 
> I'm happy to get the COVID-19 vaccine, as opposed to being hospitalized, on a ventilator for an indeterminate amount of time, and perhaps dying there.  The over half million Americans who have been affected by the virus and buried by their families is nothing to take lightly.  There's no magic pills here, this isn't the flu or the common cold.  If more people took it seriously, we'd be in much better shape in the USA today.
> 
> People can choose to do what they want, but I advise to wear a mask when around people, wash your hands often, and take advantage of the vaccination.  It benefits those who get it, those they come in contact with, and the country as a whole.


My case in point..why not come up with meds to help those that have been hospitalized due to Covid.  I can understand trying to come up with a vaccine to keep people out the hospital but what about those that come to the hospital and those they may end up in the hospital although they had the vaccine.  So many unanswered questions and prevented measures.


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## Ladybj

SeaBreeze said:


> There would be much more progress if people simply followed the guidelines from the beginning, and not so many would be dead.


I agree to disagree.  How do we know other than what is reported to us????


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## SeaBreeze

Ladybj said:


> My case in point..why not come up with meds to help those that have been hospitalized due to Covid.  I can understand trying to come up with a vaccine to keep people out the hospital but what about those that come to the hospital and those they may end up in the hospital although they had the vaccine.  So many unanswered questions and prevented measures.


That;s above my pay grade, I imagine if there were drugs that would keep people out of the hospital, they would be giving them out.  Right now the drug we have to settle for is the vaccines.


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## SeaBreeze

Ladybj said:


> I agree to disagree.  How do we know other than what is reported to us????


The guidelines for coronavirus safety are just common sense, wash hands, wear mask, stay distanced in order not to spread the virus.  No big secret conspiracy out there, they tell us the information they have at the time.  That may continue to change as everyone learns more, and vaccine results are observed.


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## drifter

I got my second covid shot today. My daughter will visit in a couple of weeks. I will still 
take precautions where necessary as far as a mask and distance go.


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## SeaBreeze

drifter said:


> I got my second covid shot today. My daughter will visit in a couple of weeks. I will still
> take precautions where necessary as far as a mask and distance go.


Good for you Drifter, glad you will still take precautions.  Hope you enjoy your visit with your daughter.


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## Becky1951

Ladybj said:


> You are definitely not alone Aunt Marg


We are a minority but definitely not alone..⚘


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## Rosemarie

drifter said:


> I got my second covid shot today. My daughter will visit in a couple of weeks. I will still
> take precautions where necessary as far as a mask and distance go.


Yes, I am still wearing a mask and washing my hands, even though many people have stopped bothering.


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## Capt Lightning

Of course there are huge gaps in out knowledge, but one thing is clear and that is that the number of people dying from Covid-19.
You can refuse to believe that if you want.  You can be the most cynical non-believer in the graveyard if you so choose.

Vaccines are only one weapon in our armoury, but they seem to be proving their worth.   As time goes on, I'm sure they will be improved and side effects lessened.  New medicines and treatments will doubtless come along too.
Until then, if I was drowning and someone threw me a lifeline, I'd grab it .


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## Aunt Bea

IMO prevention and treatment are both important.

If taking a few simple precautions prevents me from getting a disease or reduces my chances of ending up in the hospital or the cemetery I'm more than willing to pay attention and do what I can to help myself and the people I care about.

_"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."_ - Benjamin Franklin


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## Lewkat

SeaBreeze said:


> You're right Don, this is a new coronavirus and even the experts are still observing and learning more about it all the time.  The fact that there are new variants just complicates things.  I think we have made much progress with the vaccines we have, no hard facts are set for the results, time will tell what has been effective and what needs to be improved.
> 
> I'm happy to get the COVID-19 vaccine, as opposed to being hospitalized, on a ventilator for an indeterminate amount of time, and perhaps dying there.  The over half million Americans who have been affected by the virus and buried by their families is nothing to take lightly.  There's no magic pills here, this isn't the flu or the common cold.  If more people took it seriously, we'd be in much better shape in the USA today.
> 
> People can choose to do what they want, but I advise to wear a mask when around people, wash your hands often, and take advantage of the vaccination.  It benefits those who get it, those they come in contact with, and the country as a whole.


Amen to that SeaBreezee.


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## Lewkat

Medications for a  virus are almost impossible since unlike antibiotics, they only weaken a virus where a patient can tolerate it while sick.  Anti virals can help the immune system fight the virus, but they won't kill it off.  Vaccines have been found to be the effective way to combat viral infections of every nature.  Except the HIV virus.  They treat that with a combination of meds.


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## Tommy

Ladybj said:


> My case in point..why not come up with meds to help those that have been hospitalized due to Covid.  I can understand trying to come up with a vaccine to keep people out the hospital but what about those that come to the hospital and those they may end up in the hospital although they had the vaccine.  So many unanswered questions and prevented measures.


Remdesivir, monoclonal antibodies, convalescent plasma . . . and they're you can bet they're working on others.  Viral infections are notoriously difficult to treat.


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## Butterfly

win231 said:


> I also feel there are _many _pieces of the puzzle missing.  I'm not so sure about truth prevailing at any time.
> As for treating Covid patients, I'm surprised that people aren't thinking, "Hmmmm, where are all these "550,000" Covid patients dying?  They're dying in hospitals - surrounded by doctors & nurses.
> So.......the people who are pushing the vaccine on us are the same people who can't save so many Covid patients.


I don't think it is surprising or odd that it is doctors and medical professionals (who can't save covid patients) who are advising us to get the vaccine.  Of course they are -- they are the ones watching people die and fearing for their own lives.

Or would you rather the medics keep their mouths shut about the vaccine so they can fill up their beds and keep on watching people die?


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## Dana

Ladybj said:


> I agree to disagree.  How do we know other than what is reported to us????



_*How do you know? Just tally the deaths in the US and Europe. Have a look at the stats and see right now how many thousands are dying from covid in Brazil.*_


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## Dana

Lewkat said:


> Amen to that SeaBreezee.


Double amen from me too Seabreeze!


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## Ceege

10-year-old boy has hands, legs amputated after MIS-C, COVID-19 diagnosis https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/...ovid-19-diagnosis/2A7Q2NUKHVBBNBXETE5IOLOG2I/ 

White House security director has part of leg amputated after falling severely ill with COVID-19, fundraiser says - ABC News - https://abcn.ws/3r5baVN via @abc 

 An actor in New York struggled for months, in and out of comas, one leg amputated, and would have needed a lung transplant.....if he had lived.  He didn't.  He died after months of misery, in July . https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nick-cordero-death-broadway-actor-age-41-coronavirus/
*COVID-19 survivor who spent 64 days in Burbank hospital, had most of his fingers amputated: ‘This can happen to you’    https://ktla.com/news/local-news/co...ost-fingers-amputated-this-can-happen-to-you/*​
I got the vaccine.  As much as I fear getting the virus, I fear giving it to someone else even more.  Of course, we want answers.  But, until the answers become available, we have to do what we can to protect ourselves and those we come in contact with.

OLBERMANN VS. THE VACCINE HESITANT: I went to a hockey game. Never thought I might die. GET THE SHOT https://youtu.be/G_mJaf21rMovia 
@YouTube


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## Becky1951

Capt Lightning said:


> Of course there are huge gaps in out knowledge, but one thing is clear and that is that the number of people dying from Covid-19.
> You can refuse to believe that if you want.  You can be the most cynical non-believer in the graveyard if you so choose.
> 
> Vaccines are only one weapon in our armoury, but they seem to be proving their worth.   As time goes on, I'm sure they will be improved and side effects lessened.  New medicines and treatments will doubtless come along too.
> Until then, if I was drowning and someone threw me a lifeline, I'd grab it .


The topic post isn't saying non belief of Covid deaths.

That's the problem with replies, not understanding the content of the post.

Anyone having doubts or concerns regarding the vaccine or questions about treatment and bam!!! The poster is accused of not believing Covid is serious. Or accused of being a conspiracy nut. Or paranoid.

It's a shame that a few members are hesitant to voice their concerns due to quickly being labeled paranoid, conspiracy nut, non believer, anti vaxer, etc.


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## StarSong

Ceege said:


> 10-year-old boy has hands, legs amputated after MIS-C, COVID-19 diagnosis https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/...ovid-19-diagnosis/2A7Q2NUKHVBBNBXETE5IOLOG2I/
> 
> White House security director has part of leg amputated after falling severely ill with COVID-19, fundraiser says - ABC News - https://abcn.ws/3r5baVN via @abc
> 
> An actor in New York struggled for months, in and out of comas, one leg amputated, and would have needed a lung transplant.....if he had lived.  He didn't.  He died after months of misery, in July . https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nick-cordero-death-broadway-actor-age-41-coronavirus/
> *COVID-19 survivor who spent 64 days in Burbank hospital, had most of his fingers amputated: ‘This can happen to you’    https://ktla.com/news/local-news/co...ost-fingers-amputated-this-can-happen-to-you/*​
> I got the vaccine.  As much as I fear getting the virus, I fear giving it to someone else even more.  Of course, we want answers.  But, until the answers become available, we have to do what we can to protect ourselves and those we come in contact with.
> 
> OLBERMANN VS. THE VACCINE HESITANT: I went to a hockey game. Never thought I might die. GET THE SHOT https://youtu.be/G_mJaf21rMovia
> @YouTube


Some very powerful stuff here, @Ceege.  Thank you for the links.


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## garyt1957

I do agree with the OP that we very well may discover some long term side effects from the vaccines. We already know some people are having issues immediately. But waiting 5 or more years like most vaccines wasn't really an option. So what do you do? I think bringing out the vaccine was the right thing to do so long as we don't force it on anyone who doesn't want to take it. I had my doubts and thought long and hard before finally deciding to get the vaccine. I wouldn't criticize anyone who chooses not to get it.
    As to treatments, there are some available now that work quite well and more in the pipeline.


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## StarSong

garyt1957 said:


> I wouldn't criticize anyone who chooses not to get it.


Maybe you wouldn't criticize them, but would you invite them into your home to hang out for a few hours, unmasked?  I sure wouldn't.


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## Becky1951

StarSong said:


> Maybe you wouldn't criticize them, but would you invite them into your home to hang out for a few hours, unmasked?  I sure wouldn't.


Not many people would. But why assume everyone who isn't vaccinated is running around maskless? I'm not.


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## StarSong

Becky1951 said:


> Not many people would. But why assume everyone who isn't vaccinated is running around maskless? I'm not.


Once I'm past the two weeks after my second vaccine, I will have vaccinated friends and family members in my home.  And they can be maskless.  
I wouldn't invite unvaccinated folks to come inside my home. Outdoors, masked and distanced only.


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## Aneeda72

Yup, I am sick and tired of talking about the virus, how good or bad the vaccines are, are there long term side effects for short term old people, if this is really real, and on and on and on; and then @win231 really?  Name calling?  Shame on you!

Do I think something is missing?  Time is missing!  God gives instant miracles, scientists and science takes much longer.  We need more time.  There is nothing we can do but wait, pray, and cry for the dead and dying.  It is so frustrating, but all our opinions are useless.  IMO.


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## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> There would be much more progress if people simply followed the guidelines from the beginning, and not so many would be dead.


^^^ Playing the Blame Game.  Often  happens when frustrated people want answers.


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## Becky1951

StarSong said:


> Once I'm past the two weeks after my second vaccine, I will have vaccinated friends and family members in my home.  And they can be maskless.
> I wouldn't invite unvaccinated folks to come inside my home. Outdoors, masked and distanced only.


Ok, that was explained much better. I understand your concern.


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## garyt1957

StarSong said:


> Maybe you wouldn't criticize them, but would you invite them into your home to hang out for a few hours, unmasked?  I sure wouldn't.


Nope


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## StarSong

win231 said:


> The point is not that these patients should have died somewhere else.  The point is that doctors don't have the answers.  If a doctor can't cure an illness, my guess is as good as theirs.


Their treatments saved many hundreds of thousands of people who had Covid.  In the past 8 months alone over 1.9 million Covid patients were admitted to US hospitals.  No, the doctors couldn't save them all.  While they may not have all the answers they do have enough experience, tools and education to save the lion's share.  
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions

Your guess is as good as theirs? Hardly.
Unless you went to medical school and worked in the field for years, your guess wouldn't be nearly as good as theirs.


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## win231

StarSong said:


> Their treatments saved many hundreds of thousands of people who had Covid.  In the past 8 months alone over 1.9 million Covid patients were admitted to US hospitals.  No, the doctors couldn't save them all.  While they may not have all the answers they do have enough experience, tools and education to save the lion's share.
> https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions
> 
> Your guess is as good as theirs? Hardly.
> Unless you went to medical school and worked in the field for years, your guess wouldn't be nearly as good as theirs.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion & your level of confidence in doctors; as I am to mine.


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## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> I probably did miss the first name calling,  but I am still shocked by your name calling, I know you are better than that @win231 or at least I though you were , but I’ve been wrong before


Just as you're wrong now.  
He who starts a fight, causes a fight.


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## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Perhaps a reading comprehension course would help you.  They're free on the internet.


Well I tried those but, you know, I could not comprehend them


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## SeaBreeze

win231 said:


> ^^^ Playing the Blame Game.  Often  happens when frustrated people want answers.


No blame, just common sense.


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## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Just as you're wrong now.
> He who starts a fight, causes a fight.


And you could refuse to fight and that ends the fight.  Works with my husband very well, I just refuse to engage


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## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Just as you're wrong now.
> He who starts a fight, causes a fight.


I never have a problem with admitting I am wrong.  I am often wrong.  The older I get the more wrong I am.  But, I don’t call people names.  EDIT except my husband


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## garyt1957

win231 said:


> Perhaps a reading comprehension course would help you.  They're free on the internet.


HaHa I comprehend just fine. Some things are just beyond stupid, though. And that post was one of them.


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## chic

I wonder if this was a biological warfare weapon/virus being manufactured in that lab in Wuhan? You can't believe the future of warfare will be aircraft dropping bombs and armies with guns shooting each other over a few miles of ground to capture when this is so much more effective. You force an entire country to surrender completely in days.

At first I believed what I was told about this virus. Anyone who didn't was labeled an imbecile, an idiot, a murderer, a conspiracy theorist. Now, my allegiance has flipped to the other side.

If I suddenly disappear, you'll know I was right and the CIA had to kill me for figuring it out.


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## SetWave

The world is flat...


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## Rosemarie

chic said:


> I wonder if this was a biological warfare weapon/virus being manufactured in that lab in Wuhan? You can't believe the future of warfare will be aircraft dropping bombs and armies with guns shooting each other over a few miles of ground to capture when this is so much more effective. You force an entire country to surrender completely in days.
> 
> At first I believed what I was told about this virus. Anyone who didn't was labeled an imbecile, an idiot, a murderer, a conspiracy theorist. Now, my allegiance has flipped to the other side.
> 
> If I suddenly disappear, you'll know I was right and the CIA had to kill me for figuring it out.


When we were children there were the basic illnesses...measles, chicken pox, etc. You caught them, you recovered and that was the end of it unless the illness caused lasting damage as with polio. 
In the last few years though, there have been new viruses which stay in the system and keep causing fresh bouts. I wonder how this has come about?
You mention biological warfare and you're quite right. Our governments seem to be complacent about this, just as they were with the possibility of a pandemic. Instead of firing guns, terrorists could very easily be armed with biological 'bombs'. Are our laboratories working on an anti-viral weapon? Or are they closing their minds to the need for such a thing?


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## Keesha

SetWave said:


> The world is flat...


And there were no dinosaurs


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## Aneeda72

Rosemarie said:


> When we were children there were the basic illnesses...measles, chicken pox, etc. You caught them, you recovered and that was the end of it unless the illness caused lasting damage as with polio.
> In the last few years though, there have been new viruses which stay in the system and keep causing fresh bouts. I wonder how this has come about?
> You mention biological warfare and you're quite right. Our governments seem to be complacent about this, just as they were with the possibility of a pandemic. Instead of firing guns, terrorists could very easily be armed with biological 'bombs'. Are our laboratories working on an anti-viral weapon? Or are they closing their minds to the need for such a thing?


Yes our labs are


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## Becky1951

Aneeda72 said:


> Yes our labs are


U.S. Biowarfare Programs Have 13,000 Death Scientists Hard At Work​*Wednesday, 26 February 2020, 12:53 pm

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2...-have-13000-death-scientists-hard-at-work.htm*

US shuts down its biological warfare lab​The shutdown of army’s Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases raised eyebrows after the spreading of Corona Virus allegations between China and USA. But its authorities state otherwise.

The shutdown of army’s Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases raised eyebrows after the spreading of Corona Virus allegations between China and USA. But its authorities state otherwise.
ByNews Desk

17 March 2020
https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php...com/us-shuts-down-its-biological-warfare-lab/
America’s main biological warfare lab has been ordered to stop all research into the deadliest viruses and pathogens over fears contaminated waste could leak out of the facility.

Fort Detrick, in Maryland, has been the epicentre of the US Army’s bioweapons research since the beginning of the Cold War.

But last month the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) – the government’s public health body – stripped the base of its license to handle highly restricted “select agents”, which includes Ebola, smallpox and anthrax.

The unusual move follows an inspection by the CDC at Fort Detrick which found several problems with new procedures used to decontaminate waste water.

For years the facility used a steam sterilisation plant to treat waste water, but after a storm flooded and ruined that machinery last year, Fort Detrick switched to a new chemical-based decontamination system.

But the CDC inspectors found the new procedures were not sufficient, with both mechanical failures causing leaks and researchers failing to properly follow the rules.

As a result, the organisation sent a “cease and desist” order to Fort Detrick, forcing it to suspend all research on select agents.

Although the United States officially abandoned its biological weapons programme in 1969, Fort Detrick has continued defensive research into deadly pathogens on the list of “select agents”, including the Ebola virus, the organisms that cause the plague, and the highly toxic poison ricin.


The army’s Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, based at Fort Detrick, says its primary mission today is to “protect the warfighter from biological threats” but its scientists also investigate outbreaks of disease among civilians and other threats to public health.

In recent years it has been involved in testing possible vaccines for Ebola, after several epidemics of the deadly virus in Africa.


A spokeswoman for the lab, Caree Vander Linden, said despite the CDC suspension order, there had not been any threat to public health or any leaks of hazardous material outside the base.

The shutdown of research at Fort Detrick is likely to last several months, she also told the New York Times.

This is not the first time the lab has been temporarily shut down due to failures in handling the dangerous pathogens inside.

In 2009, research at Fort Detrick was suspended because it was discovered it was storing pathogens which were not listed on its inventory.

The regulations on keeping close track of hazardous biological material were tightened after the 2001 anthrax attacks, which saw five people die after spores were posted to several media newsrooms and Democratic senators.

The FBI’s chief suspect in the 2001 case, Bruce Ivins, was a senior biological weapons researcher at Fort Detrick. He killed himself in 2008, shortly before the FBI was planning to charge him with the attacks.

https://www.globalvillagespace.com/us-shuts-down-its-biological-warfare-lab/


----------



## Ceege

SetWave said:


> The world is flat...





> "If the Earth was flat, why haven’t the cats pushed everything off by now?" from      Showerthoughts


----------



## Murrmurr

Does anyone else feel something is missing when it comes to Covid/Covid Vaccine??​Only years of study, a few peer reviews, and a nearly decade-long drug trial.


----------



## Murrmurr

win231 said:


> I also feel there are _many _pieces of the puzzle missing.  I'm not so sure about truth prevailing at any time.
> As for treating Covid patients, I'm surprised that people aren't thinking, "Hmmmm, where are all these "550,000" Covid patients dying?  They're dying in hospitals - surrounded by doctors & nurses.
> So.......the people who are pushing the vaccine on us are the same people who can't save so many Covid patients.


Win, they've been doing the best they possibly can. For a while, some ICUs were short on ventilators, and even when they had plenty of them, you simply can't get air into a set of lungs that are packed with fluid, mechanically or otherwise. That was the circumstance in most cases. In others, the organs started shutting down too rapidly to keep up. People went downhill so quick and so severely, all efforts were futile. Doctors and nurses weren't standing around with their thumbs up their asses watching patients die, they were working like hell to keep them alive.


----------



## win231

Murrmurr said:


> Win, they've been doing the best they possibly can. For a while, some ICUs were short on ventilators, and even when they had plenty of them, you simply can't get air into a set of lungs that are packed with fluid, mechanically or otherwise. That was the circumstance in most cases. In others, the organs started shutting down too rapidly to keep up. People went downhill so quick and so severely, all efforts were futile. Doctors and nurses weren't standing around with their thumbs up their asses watching patients die, they were working like hell to keep them alive.


^^^ Gross misinterpretation.
I'm not blaming doctors for not being able to cure Covid or prevent any deaths with any other disease.  It's not their fault.  Anyone knows doctors can't save everyone's life; if they could, no one would ever die of anything.....duh.
I'm saying there is much doctors don't know about Covid (as with many other diseases).  So anyone who makes their own health decisions to get a vaccine or not get a vaccine should not be criticized for their decision.
Anyone who criticizes or judges others who don't make the same decisions they make is a fool.


----------



## win231

Becky1951 said:


> The topic post isn't saying non belief of Covid deaths.
> 
> That's the problem with replies, not understanding the content of the post.
> 
> Anyone having doubts or concerns regarding the vaccine or questions about treatment and bam!!! The poster is accused of not believing Covid is serious. Or accused of being a conspiracy nut. Or paranoid.
> 
> It's a shame that a few members are hesitant to voice their concerns due to quickly being labeled paranoid, conspiracy nut, non believer, anti vaxer, etc.


I think it's the only way some people can feel good about themselves.


----------



## JonDouglas

I think some people are trying to point out the reality that the vaccine is not the panacea some others think it is.  What is hoped by professionals is that it will blunt or, at best, defang the virus.  No other flu vaccine has succeeded in eradicating any particular type of influenza and you shouldn't expect this to be any different.  We hope it will be, but don't expect it.  Also, basic tenets of our individual liberty suggest that each individual reserves the right to dictate what is or is not shot into his or her body.  Disagree with that tenet and promote the opposite at your peril.  Study your history and you might get the idea that some folks are looking more and more like Nazi Germany every day (e.g., forced vaccinations, travel papers and societal type restrictions, etc.

Personally, I an mot afraid of people who aren't vaccinated and don't wear a mask.  The thought of being otherwise reminds me of bad times past.


----------



## Gaer

Does anyone know if the ingredients of the vaccines were ever disclosed?


----------



## Keesha

I’d like to know the ingredients also.


----------



## SetWave

Gaer said:


> Does anyone know  the ingredients of the vaccines ?


a toad, a slice of swamp snake, a newt’s eye, a frog’s tongue, a bat’s fur, a dog’s tongue, a black snake’s forked tongue, a burrowing worm’s stinger, a lizard’s leg, an owl’s wing, a scale of dragon, a wolf’s tooth, a witch’s mummified flesh, the gullet and stomach of a ravenous shark, a root of hemlock (a very poisonous plant) that was dug up in the dark, a liver of Christian that is not baptized, a goat’s bile, slips of pine trees, a Turk’s nose, a Tartar’s lips, finger of a baby that was born dead by a prostitute, a tiger’s gut and a baboon’s blood.


----------



## Gaer

SetWave said:


> a toad, a slice of swamp snake, a newt’s eye, a frog’s tongue, a bat’s fur, a dog’s tongue, a black snake’s forked tongue, a burrowing worm’s stinger, a lizard’s leg, an owl’s wing, a scale of dragon, a wolf’s tooth, a witch’s mummified flesh, the gullet and stomach of a ravenous shark, a root of hemlock (a very poisonous plant) that was dug up in the dark, a liver of Christian that is not baptized, a goat’s bile, slips of pine trees, a Turk’s nose, a Tartar’s lips, finger of a baby that was born dead by a prostitute, a tiger’s gut and a baboon’s blood.


Good one!


----------



## SeaBreeze

Gaer said:


> Does anyone know if the ingredients of the vaccines were ever disclosed?


https://www.hackensackmeridianhealt...own-of-the-ingredients-in-the-covid-vaccines/

Links for ingredients for each vaccine from the CDC here.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...ccine ingredients:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21


----------



## Dana

.
_Soooo...people want to know the ingredients of the vaccine.  My question to them is:  Even if you are given the ingredients, will you have a clue as to what they mean.? How many of you are compounding pharmacists!
._


----------



## Aneeda72

Dana said:


> .
> _Soooo...people want to know the ingredients of the vaccine.  My question to them is:  Even if you are given the ingredients, will you have a clue as to what they mean.? How many of you are compounding pharmacists!
> ._


People are looking for known allergies for themselves


----------



## Brookswood

Ladybj said:


> Why don't they come up with some type of med to help people that has contacted the virus that end up in the hospital??  Taking the vaccine is like putting a bandage on your finger just in case you get a sore.


They are working on treatments for Covid. Hopefully, something like a single shot in the doctor's office or an Rx for pills that will knock out the virus.    

The vaccine is NOT like putting a bandage on your finger in case you get a sore.    Think of polio.   Is that like a sore?  I don't think so. As I write this a friend has his 30-something son in a hospital on a ventilator because he got Covid deep into his lungs.   In about a month he would have had his first vaccine shot and probably had enough immunity to shake it off without the need for hospitalization.   Sadly, he is among those who missed it by just a few weeks.   Thankfully, he is responding well to the treatments and may be off the ventilator in a few days.


----------



## Keesha

I’m no compounding pharmacist but that doesn’t stop me from inquiring in case anyone knows and thankfully somebody did.

I don’t think asking such a question hurts anyone else. Maybe others would like to know also.
No biggie.

I’m a nutritionist by trade who happens to have allergies to certain substances.


----------



## Dana

Aneeda72 said:


> People are looking for known allergies for themselves


_The GP can supply that information. I would suggest people who think they are at risk, have a talk with your doctor...he/she has your medical history._


----------



## Dana

Keesha said:


> I’m no compounding pharmacist but that doesn’t stop me from inquiring in case anyone knows and thankfully somebody did.
> 
> I don’t think asking such a question hurts anyone else. Maybe others would like to know also.
> No biggie.
> 
> I’m a nutritionist by trade who happens to have allergies to certain substances.



_Knowing the ingredients is not enough...you have to know how they interact with other medications you are taking and also, how they might affect any underlying medical conditions you already have._


----------



## Keesha

Dana said:


> _Knowing the ingredients is not enough...you have to know how they interact with other medications you are taking and also, how they might affect any underlying medical conditions you already have._


Yes. I agree.


----------



## Lakeland living

chic said:


> I wonder if this was a biological warfare weapon/virus being manufactured in that lab in Wuhan? You can't believe the future of warfare will be aircraft dropping bombs and armies with guns shooting each other over a few miles of ground to capture when this is so much more effective. You force an entire country to surrender completely in days.
> 
> At first I believed what I was told about this virus. Anyone who didn't was labeled an imbecile, an idiot, a murderer, a conspiracy theorist. Now, my allegiance has flipped to the other side.
> 
> If I suddenly disappear, you'll know I was right and the CIA had to kill me for figuring it out.


 i have never believed what they were spouting. Why are so many Dr and Nurses NOT getting a shot?
 What we have is something man made, released or maybe loose by accident. We may never know.
there it is...


----------



## Ceege

Whether we are comfortable with it or not, we have to keep washing our hands, practice social distancing, wear our masks, and get the vaccine.   

It's better than going through what we could go through if we get the virus.....IF we live through getting it.  And my conscience just couldn't handle even _thinking_ that someone might get it because I was careless or remiss in doing _everything_ I could do to help stop it.  We are never going to get rid of this until we all step up and get vaccinated. 

And, we have to be prepared for the variants of this virus.  We will probably have to keep getting vaccinated just as we do for the yearly flu out break.


----------



## Ladybj

SeaBreeze said:


> That;s above my pay grade, I imagine if there were drugs that would keep people out of the hospital, they would be giving them out.  Right now the drug we have to settle for is the vaccines.


Above my pay grade as well...however, I choose not to settle..too many unanswered questions.  Even the doctors and hospitals are puzzled. Moderna, Pfizer, J&J are all in a "waiting to see phase"...JMO.  Hopefully between the 3, one will show results.


----------



## Ladybj

SeaBreeze said:


> The guidelines for coronavirus safety are just common sense, wash hands, wear mask, stay distanced in order not to spread the virus.  No big secret conspiracy out there, they tell us the information they have at the time.  That may continue to change as everyone learns more, and vaccine results are observed.


Again, I agree to disagree.  There are those that has followed the guidelines and end up with the Virus.  I do agree, this is a learning phase for doctors and hospitals.  As the  general public.. we can only go on what is reported and pray its legit information.


----------



## win231

Ceege said:


> Whether we are comfortable with it or not, we have to keep washing our hands, practice social distancing, wear our masks, and get the vaccine.
> 
> It's better than going through what we could go through if we get the virus.....IF we live through getting it.  And my conscience just couldn't handle even _thinking_ that someone might get it because I was careless or remiss in doing _everything_ I could do to help stop it.  We are never going to get rid of this until we all step up and get vaccinated.
> 
> And, we have to be prepared for the variants of this virus.  We will probably have to keep getting vaccinated just as we do for the yearly flu out break.


You are doing a lot of assuming.  Who is _"We?" _ I have several friends, ranging from ages 60 to 87 who stopped getting flu shots after being bedridden for a week after each one.  A friend who is 64 doesn't get flu shots on the advice of his doctor who previously suggested them due to his preexisting conditions (a common selling point).  He was hospitalized with breathing problems for two weeks after his last flu shot.
My sister got flu shots on the advice of her doctor - but stopped after being sick in bed for a week with the flu after each shot.
I've never had a flu shot, & only had the flu once 38 years ago.
As with the Covid vaccine, I tell everyone "If you're confident in the vaccine, go for it."  Funny how people who get the vaccine (Covid or Flu) often gain confidence by trying to convince others to make the same decision they make.  But most people who don't get the vaccine live & let live.


----------



## Ladybj

Capt Lightning said:


> Of course there are huge gaps in out knowledge, but one thing is clear and that is that the number of people dying from Covid-19.
> You can refuse to believe that if you want.  You can be the most cynical non-believer in the graveyard if you so choose.
> 
> Vaccines are only one weapon in our armoury, but they seem to be proving their worth.   As time goes on, I'm sure they will be improved and side effects lessened.  New medicines and treatments will doubtless come along too.
> Until then, if I was drowning and someone threw me a lifeline, I'd grab it .


For me, it depends on how safe the lifeline is. Hopefully new effective medicines will come along.


----------



## win231

JonDouglas said:


> I think some people are trying to point out the reality that the vaccine is not the panacea some others think it is.  What is hoped by professionals is that it will blunt or, at best, defang the virus.  No other flu vaccine has succeeded in eradicating any particular type of influenza and you shouldn't expect this to be any different.  We hope it will be, but don't expect it.  Also, basic tenets of our individual liberty suggest that each individual reserves the right to dictate what is or is not shot into his or her body.  Disagree with that tenet and promote the opposite at your peril.  Study your history and you might get the idea that some folks are looking more and more like Nazi Germany every day (e.g., forced vaccinations, travel papers and societal type restrictions, etc.
> 
> Personally, I an mot afraid of people who aren't vaccinated and don't wear a mask.  The thought of being otherwise reminds me of bad times past.


Something I've noticed about wearing masks.  I go for daily walks in a park.  I've been going there for several months.  When I started going there, almost everyone wore a mask.  I've been seeing more & more unmasked people over the past few weeks.  Today, maybe half were wearing masks.


----------



## Ladybj

win231 said:


> You are doing a lot of assuming.  Who is _"We?" _ I have several friends, ranging from ages 60 to 87 who stopped getting flu shots after being bedridden for a week after each one.  A friend who is 64 doesn't get flu shots on the advice of his doctor who previously suggested them due to his preexisting conditions (a common selling point).  He was hospitalized with breathing problems for two weeks after his last flu shot.
> My sister got flu shots on the advice of her doctor - but stopped after being sick in bed for a week with the flu after each shot.
> I've never had a flu shot, & only had the flu once 38 years ago.
> As with the Covid vaccine, I tell everyone "If you're confident in the vaccine, go for it."  Funny how people who get the vaccine (Covid or Flu) often gain confidence by trying to convince others make the same decision they make.  But most people who don't get the vaccine live & let live.


I had a bad reaction to the flu shot as well...that


Lakeland living said:


> i have never believed what they were spouting. Why are so many Dr and Nurses NOT getting a shot?
> What we have is something man made, released or maybe loose by accident. We may never know.
> there it is...


I soooooooo Agree!!!


----------



## Keesha

Ladybj said:


> Above my pay grade as well...however, I choose not to settle..too many unanswered questions.  Even the doctors and hospitals are puzzled. Moderna, Pfizer, J&J are all in a "waiting to see phase"...JMO.  Hopefully between the 3, one will show results.


Maybe we are the guinea pigs.


----------



## Ceege

win231 said:


> You are doing a lot of assuming.  Who is _"We?" _ I have several friends, ranging from ages 60 to 87 who stopped getting flu shots after being bedridden for a week after each one.  A friend who is 64 doesn't get flu shots on the advice of his doctor who previously suggested them due to his preexisting conditions (a common selling point).  He was hospitalized with breathing problems for two weeks after his last flu shot.
> My sister got flu shots on the advice of her doctor - but stopped after being sick in bed for a week with the flu after each shot.
> I've never had a flu shot, & only had the flu once 38 years ago.
> As with the Covid vaccine, I tell everyone "If you're confident in the vaccine, go for it."  Funny how people who get the vaccine (Covid or Flu) often gain confidence by trying to convince others to make the same decision they make.  But most people who don't get the vaccine live & let live.


I would rather err on the side of caution than just sit back while others, who believe they are playing it safe, not only end up with Covid themselves, but spread it to others.  
You are right.  Everyone should follow their conscience.  It's their life, it's their personal opinion.


----------



## fmdog44

Where I live there is a huge overkill in terms of all the disinfectants available on the shelves everywhere you look to the point they may have to give the stuff away. With that in mind one of the so-called authorities on COVID said this week now there is no need to be concerned with getting the virus by touching as it is _strictly_ airborne. Haven't we been told since day one to be concerned with touching things during flu seasons? It has been over a year now and we seem to know nothing in spite of giving the green light for several vaccines.  My head hurts from shaking.


----------



## Becky1951

fmdog44 said:


> Where I live there is a huge overkill in terms of all the disinfectants available on the shelves everywhere you look to the point they may have to give the stuff away. With that in mind one of the so-called authorities on COVID said this week now there is no need to be concerned with getting the virus by touching as it is _strictly_ airborne. Haven't we been told since day one to be concerned with touching things during flu seasons? It has been over a year now and we seem to know nothing in spite of giving the green light for several vaccines.  My head hurts from shaking.


"Haven't we been told since day one to be concerned with touching things during flu seasons?"

There was very little flu this flu season.. why? Because everyone was sanitizing, wearing masks, not touching face.

I will continue to santize..


----------



## StarSong

@fmdog44, scientists told us what to do based on what they thought was true at the time, which was that it could be contracted by surface contact.  They are refining recommendations as data comes in.  That's how science works.  

As Maya Angelou said, "I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better."

In any case, what harm was done by sanitizing surfaces?


----------



## Becky1951

fmdog44 said:


> Where I live there is a huge overkill in terms of all the disinfectants available on the shelves everywhere you look to the point they may have to give the stuff away. With that in mind one of the so-called authorities on COVID said this week now there is no need to be concerned with getting the virus by touching as it is _strictly_ airborne. Haven't we been told since day one to be concerned with touching things during flu seasons? It has been over a year now and we seem to know nothing in spite of giving the green light for several vaccines.  My head hurts from shaking.


"Haven't we been told since day one to be concerned with touching things during flu seasons?"

There was very little flu this flu season.. why? Because everyone was sanitizing, wearing masks, not touching face.

I will continue to santize..


StarSong said:


> @fmdog44, scientists told us what to do based on what they thought was true at the time, which was that it could be contracted by surface contact.  They are refining recommendations as data comes in.  That's how science works.
> 
> As Maya Angelou said, "I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better."
> 
> In any case, what harm was done by sanitizing surfaces?


Remember all those studies done where they "proved" the virus stays on X surface X amount of hours, on X surface X amount of days?

So how is it possible that now the virus suddenly no longer stays on surfaces so now there is no threat?


----------



## StarSong

Becky1951 said:


> Remember all those studies done where they "proved" the virus stays on X surface X amount of hours, on X surface X amount of days?
> 
> So how is it possible that now the virus suddenly no longer stays on surfaces so now there is no threat?


Covid is likely still on the surfaces, but perhaps additional studies have determined that the amounts aren't sufficient to cause infection.


----------



## SetWave

Well said, Ceege.


----------



## SetWave

StarSong said:


> Covid is likely still on the surfaces, but perhaps additional studies have determined that the amounts aren't sufficient to cause infection.


Yes, "they" have decided it isn't as easily transmitted via surface contamination yet keeping one's hands clean and away from the face is still a good practice even in the best of times.


----------



## Jeweltea

StarSong said:


> Covid is likely still on the surfaces, but perhaps additional studies have determined that the amounts aren't sufficient to cause infection.


That is what I have read. It is on surfaces but likely not enough to cause any issue. Colds are still transmitted on surfaces to hands and then to your face when you touch  your face, so it is still good to sanitize.


----------



## StarSong

SetWave said:


> Yes, "they" have decided it isn't as easily transmitted via surface contamination yet keeping one's hands clean and away from the face is still a good practice even in the best of times.


Agreed.


----------



## Irwin

StarSong said:


> @fmdog44, scientists told us what to do based on what they thought was true at the time, which was that it could be contracted by surface contact.  They are refining recommendations as data comes in.  That's how science works.
> 
> As Maya Angelou said, "I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better."
> 
> In any case, what harm was done by sanitizing surfaces?


To me, it always seemed like it was more likely to be transmitted through the air, and when I'd see these scenes of governments out sanitizing the sidewalks and floors with spray disinfectant, it just didn't seem like that was the most pragmatic way to prevent the spread of covid. And I'd see Fauci go on air and tell people to wash their hands and social distance but no mention of masks, it just didn't seem to be the right approach. I'd say to my wife, why the hell isn't he telling people to wear facemasks? Now he says he didn't recommend the wearing of facemasks because he didn't want their to be shortages, which is complexly illogical. People have made their own facemasks and businesses have started to create them, but only after they finally started telling people that wearing masks can help prevent the spread of covid. They screwed up.


----------



## Becky1951

Jeweltea said:


> That is what I have read. It is on surfaces but likely not enough to cause any issue. Colds are still transmitted on surfaces to hands and then to your face when you touch  your face, so it is still good to sanitize.


Colds and the flu.
But now not Covid? Makes no sense. If I have the flu or a cold and sneeze on you, you'll likely catch it. If I scratch my itchy nose during a cold or having the flu and touch my grocery cart and you then have that cart, you can catch it.

So what makes Covid different now and not easily transmitted by touching an infected surface?


----------



## JonDouglas

Becky1951 said:


> "Haven't we been told since day one to be concerned with touching things during flu seasons?"
> 
> There was very little flu this flu season.. why? Because everyone was sanitizing, wearing masks, not touching face.
> 
> I will continue to santize..


There was very little flu this season probably because a good bit of it was being classified as covid due to faulty test kits and the incentive/pressure to enter the covid fray..  The CDC was never very adept at counting flu cases accurately and revised its directives to allow influenze to be classified as covid.  More regular flu didn't just go away.


----------



## win231

Here is a doctor showing us how to protect ourselves and our loved ones from Covid:  Such valuable information....LOL
And, Yes; he's a real doctor.  I checked.


----------



## Ceege

Regarding sanitizing:   I used to get a bad sinus infection every spring.  The last one took three different antibiotics to finally take care of it.  I had to sleep sitting upright for over 3 weeks and really suffered through it. 

After I recovered, I began to be more proactive in avoiding this happening again.  One of the things I did, years before Covid, was to sanitize my hands when I went out.  I used sanitizer before I got out of my car, and again when I got into my car.  I haven't had a sinus infection since......_knock on wood  _

I don't know how long I will still wear a mask after we are told it's safe to go without.  Long enough to wait and see what happens with the general public when they go without the mask.  I do know that I will pay attention to what's going on and if I hear that something is going around, I will slap that mask back on.  Remember I said that I tend to err on the side of caution.

My daughter-in-law is a nurse.  She got the vaccine as soon as she could.  I couldn't wait to get mine.  Over the years I've had a burst appendix, pancreatitis, and a painful infection in my esophagus (a secondary infection I got because I didn't finish taking the antibiotic I was taking for bronchitis- _another lesson learned_).
My point is, I've suffered enough.  So, I'm doing all I can to avoid that virus and to avoid putting somone else through it.


----------



## Ceege

JonDouglas said:


> There was very little flu this season probably because a good bit of it was being classified as covid due to faulty test kits and the incentive/pressure to enter the covid fray..  The CDC was never very adept at counting flu cases accurately and revised its directives to allow influenze to be classified as covid.  More regular flu didn't just go away.


It was probably because of what we did to avoid Covid.  Sanitizing, wearing masks, social distancing, and staying home more.


----------



## DaveA

Ladybj said:


> I know a lot of people are over the "Covid" talk.... so am I.  However, I felt the need for this post.  I truly feel there is a BIG piece of a puzzle missing when it comes to COVID and the Vaccine.  I feel it in my gut.  I am probably on the boat alone and that's ok.  I feel one day, one day...truth will prevail.  There will be more studies on the vaccine - such as which vaccine has the most side effects...which has already started, etc. and MUCH more.
> 
> Why don't they come up with some type of med to help people that has contacted the virus that end up in the hospital??  Taking the vaccine is like putting a bandage on your finger just in case you get a sore.  If I get the virus and end up in the hospital do you have anything that can help me?  As we know the vaccine does not mean you will not contact Covid.. WOW


How about skipping polio and diphtheria vaccines and just treat folks after they've contracted these and other diseases?  Sound like a good plan for the future?


----------



## Becky1951

DaveA said:


> How about skipping polio and diphtheria vaccines and just treat folks after they've contracted these and other diseases?  Sound like a good plan for the future?



There is a big difference in former vaccines vs the Covid vaccines. All former vaccines went through years of studies before being deemed safe enough to use. So there is no comparison.


----------



## Ceege

Covid was killing so many so quickly that there wasn't years to test a vaccine.  My husband died a year ago, and already the funeral homes were so backed up they didn't have any idea when, or if, there could be a funeral.  My husband wanted to be cremated, and even at that, it was over a month before I got his ashes.  

We don't even know how many have really died from this.  In some places, if a patient went into the hospital with a different illness and then contracted and died from Covid, the death certificate would state that the person died from what they entered the hospital with.  The count could be much higher than we realize.


----------



## 911

The vaccine rollout has been slow across the world. It seems that the richer countries have received much more of it than the poorer countries, which was expected.

I am in the camp that there’s more to this pandemic than we have been told or are being told. I think for most us, we are skeptical of the amount of information that we have been given.

Many scientists have made comments that the origin of the disease must be located and equally important is for them to figure out how it was transmitted to humans. From all of the information that we have been given so far is that it probably did come from China, yet we have not seen 100% convincing evidence, even though the first case reported was in Wuhan.

If scientists can locate where the disease started and how it was able to infect humans, Virologists in the future will be able to use that information to possibly squelch other viruses before they are able to contract with humans or other hosts.


----------



## Jeweltea

They had been doing research into this MRNA for over a decade, which is why the vaccine could be developed so quickly. It isn't like they started from scratch.


----------



## Jeweltea

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4

This article explains the way Covid spreads, which is mostly through the air. I still think some sanitizing doesn't hurt (like the handle of grocery carts) and certainly washing hands. However, personally I do not wipe down all my groceries or other items. If it makes you feel safer, then I would continue.


----------



## Ladybj

JonDouglas said:


> There was very little flu this season probably because a good bit of it was being classified as covid due to faulty test kits and the incentive/pressure to enter the covid fray..  The CDC was never very adept at counting flu cases accurately and revised its directives to allow influenze to be classified as covid.  More regular flu didn't just go away.


I agree 101%.  The Flu has been replaced with Covid...jmo.


----------



## Ladybj

StarSong said:


> Maybe you wouldn't criticize them, but would you invite them into your home to hang out for a few hours, unmasked?  I sure wouldn't.


I would.  My daughter comes over without a mask.


----------



## Ladybj

Gaer said:


> Does anyone know if the ingredients of the vaccines were ever disclosed?


From what I researched, they are disclosed.


----------



## hawkdon

what is strange to me is the LACK of info about going
to an MD, or your family doc for the vaccine....I suppose it
is about the money tho...it always is.......


----------



## Ladybj

Brookswood said:


> They are working on treatments for Covid. Hopefully, something like a single shot in the doctor's office or an Rx for pills that will knock out the virus.
> 
> The vaccine is NOT like putting a bandage on your finger in case you get a sore.    Think of polio.   Is that like a sore?  I don't think so. As I write this a friend has his 30-something son in a hospital on a ventilator because he got Covid deep into his lungs.   In about a month he would have had his first vaccine shot and probably had enough immunity to shake it off without the need for hospitalization.   Sadly, he is among those who missed it by just a few weeks.   Thankfully, he is responding well to the treatments and may be off the ventilator in a few days.


Good to know he is responding well to the treatments.  That is my main concern.. hospitals having treatments for people that come in with severe cases of Covid.  I pray they come up with treatments that knock out the virus.


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## Ladybj

Becky1951 said:


> There is a big difference in former vaccines vs the Covid vaccines. All former vaccines went through years of studies before being deemed safe enough to use. So there is no comparison.


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!  Very well stated.


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## Murrmurr

Jeweltea said:


> They had been doing research into this MRNA for over a decade, which is why the vaccine could be developed so quickly. It isn't like they started from scratch.


True, but covid-19 (literally the 19th coronavirus) acted differently from all other coronaviruses. It was killing much quicker, doing far more damage, replicated itself right inside your nose, and made its way deeper into your lungs than other viruses, where it rapidly caused unprecedented accumulations of fluid in them. Plus it lived longer in the air and on surfaces. Doctors were seeing C-19 do lots of new things and that's why they called it the nuevo-virus for a while. So it's true they had a good idea how to approach it, saving at least a few years' study, but that's about all they had.


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## StarSong

Murrmurr said:


> True, but covid-19 (literally the 19th coronavirus) acted differently from all other coronaviruses. It was killing much quicker, doing far more damage, replicated itself right inside your nose, and made its way deeper into your lungs than other viruses, where it rapidly caused unprecedented accumulations of fluid in them. Plus it lived longer in the air and on surfaces. Doctors were seeing C-19 do lots of new things and that's why they called it the nuevo-virus for a while. So it's true they had a good idea how to approach it, saving at least a few years' study, but that's about all they had.


Another head start on Covid-19 vaccines came from vaccine research for its close cousin, SARS, which hit hard and fast back in 2003.  Fortunately, it wasn't nearly as contagious as Covid-19 and fizzled fairly quickly.   

Let's also not forget that by the time clinical trials started in August the US government alone had allocated over 9 billion dollars for the development and manufacture of vaccines. Many other countries and pharma companies invested plenty of money into the research. 

Vaccine development for Covid-19 was a massive international effort.


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## Keesha

In the area where we currently live vaccines are only available for 65 and older age groups and I’m not there yet. Our vaccines come out on April  21st and we won’t be here then so we have to wait and I’m ok with anyone having a problem with it.


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## Keesha

Keesha said:


> I’m ok with anyone having a problem with it.


However ...... I’m not ok with being attacked  due to this above info .


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## StarSong

Keesha said:


> However ...... I’m not ok with being attacked  due to this above info .


Nor should you be.  That's beyond the pale.


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## helenbacque

The only actual proven *FACTS* about Covid can be written on the head of a pin.  Lots of opinions, guesses, viewpoints, beliefs, I thinks, should haves, could haves, would haves but the only known facts are - it's here, it's easily transmitted and it can be deadly.

BTW, when I grew up, washing one's hands and keeping the articles you dealt with clean/sanitary was considered good hygiene.  Why has the advice suddenly become political?


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## OneEyedDiva

You are not alone...believe me. Most of the people I know do not want to take the vaccine. There have been posts by those in the medical field or formerly in the medical field, both pro and con. At first my doctor said he wouldn't take a rushed vaccine, but he wound up taking it partly because he brother almost died from COVID.  

Like you, my "first mind" (also considered gut feeling) said do not take this vaccine, at least not yet. Every other day it seems, what they tell us about COVID changes. It stands to reason with me that the same could hold true for these vaccines. Now look what we are reading and hearing about some of these vaccines. I feel that just like the virus itself, they don't know all they need to know about these vaccines yet. They were rolled out as "emergency" and not FDA approved. I was told this means that anyone (or their heirs) who suffers severe reaction or dies wouldn't be able to hold the drug makers accountable.


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## Murrmurr

OneEyedDiva said:


> I was told this means that anyone (or their heirs) who suffers severe reaction or dies wouldn't be able to hold the drug makers accountable.


In fact, when the vaccine was first rolled out, recipients were asked to sign a waiver.

Now they don't even have to present a waiver. If you agree to take the vaccine, the waiver is implicit.


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## chic

Ladybj said:


> I would.  My daughter comes over without a mask.


Ditto also. My family, BF, and friends visit without masks.


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## Sunny

In this area, the doctors and nurses were the first people to enthusiastically get the vaccine. They almost apologetically said, "I hope you can get it soon; I've gotten it already because I'm a medical professional."  Who are all these doctors and nurses who "refuse" to get the vaccine?

About getting it at your doctor's office, if only it were that simple. They are working desperately around the clock to get the vaccine distributed to the inoculation centers. Some pharmacies offer it now; my son just got his at one. But I haven't heard of a single doctor being able to get his hands on it. If they could, there would be lines around the block at the doctors' offices.


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## Ladybj

OneEyedDiva said:


> You are not alone...believe me. Most of the people I know do not want to take the vaccine. There have been posts by those in the medical field or formerly in the medical field, both pro and con. At first my doctor said he wouldn't take a rushed vaccine, but he wound up taking it partly because he brother almost died from COVID.
> 
> Like you, my "first mind" (also considered gut feeling) said do not take this vaccine, at least not yet. Every other day it seems, what they tell us about COVID changes. It stands to reason with me that the same could hold true for these vaccines. Now look what we are reading and hearing about some of these vaccines. I feel that just like the virus itself, they don't know all they need to know about these vaccines yet. They were rolled out as "emergency" and not FDA approved. I was told this means that anyone (or their heirs) who suffers severe reaction or dies wouldn't be able to hold the drug makers accountable.


The FDA is not even on board yet... that speaks VOLUMES.. JMO.


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## Ladybj

hawkdon said:


> what is strange to me is the LACK of info about going
> to an MD, or your family doc for the vaccine....I suppose it
> is about the money tho...it always is.......


I feel the same way.  You should be able to schedule an appt with your dr office to get the vaccine.  Maybe it will happen at some point.


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## win231

garyt1957 said:


> HaHa I comprehend just fine. Some things are just beyond stupid, though. And that post was one of them.


As was your reply.


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## Warrigal

Keesha said:


> Maybe we are the guinea pigs.


I'm happy to step up as a guinea pig. It is the only way that we will get the answers that people are demanding. In the case of a new vaccine the final field test is the first roll out.


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## chic

Murrmurr said:


> True, but covid-19 (literally the 19th coronavirus) acted differently from all other coronaviruses. It was killing much quicker, doing far more damage, replicated itself right inside your nose, and made its way deeper into your lungs than other viruses, where it rapidly caused unprecedented accumulations of fluid in them. Plus it lived longer in the air and on surfaces. Doctors were seeing C-19 do lots of new things and that's why they called it the nuevo-virus for a while. So it's true they had a good idea how to approach it, saving at least a few years' study, but that's about all they had.


But how do you know this for a fact? You're believing what they tell you. Maybe Bill Gates was heavily invested in vaccines and maybe this has all been a test, or a taste of our futures, because they will not let this end. There's too much money to be made. And Bill Gates needs to control every aspect of other peoples' lives. We've seen this.

From my personal vantage point, if there were not a mask mandate here, I wouldn't even know anything was wrong in the world. This scares me.


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## Warrigal

JonDouglas said:


> There was very little flu this season probably because a good bit of it was being classified as covid due to faulty test kits and the incentive/pressure to enter the covid fray..  The CDC was never very adept at counting flu cases accurately and revised its directives to allow influenze to be classified as covid.  More regular flu didn't just go away.


Australia reported the same phenomenon of low flu cases last Winter (NH Summer). I can assure you that reporting and record keeping over here is not inept.  Covid vaccine is in short supply over here and the vaccination roll out has stalled. So far only about 4% of the population has received even the first jab. Under 50s are going to have to wait until close to Christmas. I am among the privileged and have an appointment for early May for my first jab of AstraZeneca. 

We are looking at the swift rollout of vaccine in US with astonishment and envy. Thanks to strict lockdowns and quarantine practices we have been able to control community transmissions but it has come are great economic cost.

Our neighbours to the north in PNG are in much worse shape with a contagion spreading throughout the country, poorly developed public health systems and hardly any vaccine available to protect the population. I'm sure they would like to have the First World problem of having to decide whether vaccines and masks are an affront to individual freedom.


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## Ladybj

chic said:


> But how do you know this for a fact? You're believing what they tell you. Maybe Bill Gates was heavily invested in vaccines and maybe this has all been a test, or a taste of our futures, because they will not let this end. There's too much money to be made. And Bill Gates needs to control every aspect of other peoples' lives. We've seen this.
> 
> From my personal vantage point, if there were not a mask mandate here, I wouldn't even know anything was wrong in the world. This scares me.


Great post!


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## Sunny

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."


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## Keesha

Warrigal said:


> Australia reported the same phenomenon of low flu cases last Winter (NH Summer). I can assure you that reporting and record keeping over here is not inept.  Covid vaccine is in short supply over here and the vaccination roll out has stalled. So far only about 4% of the population has received even the first jab. Under 50s are going to have to wait until close to Christmas. I am among the privileged and have an appointment for early May for my first jab of AstraZeneca.
> 
> We are looking at the swift rollout of vaccine in US with astonishment and envy. Thanks to strict lockdowns and quarantine practices we have been able to control community transmissions but it has come are great economic cost.
> 
> Our neighbours to the north in PNG are in much worse shape with a contagion spreading throughout the country, poorly developed public health systems and hardly any vaccine available to protect the population. I'm sure they would like to have the First World problem of having to decide whether vaccines and masks are an affront to individual freedom.


We have a 3 percent vaccinated here.


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## WhatInThe

What puzzles me wih virus and/or the vaccine protocols is this is the first time I can remember them recommending the vax to those that actually had the virus. In the past "if you had it" ie those that had it and others vaxxed there were actually no out breaks of what ever. Being an old fart I had chicken pox, measles etc as a child as did many from my era and any job or situation that required a vax or had it seemed to work. Doctors wouldnt even flinch/push the vax if you it was on record you had it yet the vax was now available.


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## chic

WhatInThe said:


> What puzzles me wih virus and/or the vaccine protocols is this is the first time I can remember them recommending the vax to those that actually had the virus. In the past "if you had it" ie those that had it and others vaxxed there were actually no out breaks of what ever. Being an old fart I had chicken pox, measles etc as a child as did many from my era and any job or situation that required a vax or had it seemed to work. Doctors wouldnt even flinch/push the vax if you it was on record you had it yet the vax was now available.


Puzzles me too. Follow the money is my guess. Who benefits from all these vaccinations? Big Pharma, - and we all know how much they care about us.


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## StarSong

WhatInThe said:


> What puzzles me wih virus and/or the vaccine protocols is this is the first time I can remember them recommending the vax to those that actually had the virus. In the past "if you had it" ie those that had it and others vaxxed there were actually no out breaks of what ever. Being an old fart I had chicken pox, measles etc as a child as did many from my era and any job or situation that required a vax or had it seemed to work. Doctors wouldnt even flinch/push the vax if you it was on record you had it yet the vax was now available.


https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/3...-youve-had-coronavirus-op-ed-the-conversation


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## win231

chic said:


> Puzzles me too. Follow the money is my guess. Who benefits from all these vaccinations? Big Pharma, - and we all know how much they care about us.


And the fact that money drives everything else.  I'm surprised that people know that but don't want to make the connection when it comes to this vaccine.


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## WhatInThe

One doctor is recommending caution for some who had the virus getting vaccinated saying the extra antigens or antibodies in one's system could cause blood clots.

https://noorchashm.medium.com/j-js-...he-adversely-affected-women-have-cdde4bdbb090

I wonder would happen if someone was vaxxed for chicken pox or measles a few months after having them. Again this is only time I can remember pushing a vax on those that had the disease.


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## StarSong

win231 said:


> And the fact that money drives everything else.  I'm surprised that people know that but don't want to make the connection when it comes to this vaccine.


What makes you think that people don't make the connection?  I don't know a soul who thinks multinational pharma companies are non-profits or charities. 

Virtually everything we purchase and consume, every service person we employ, and every event we attend, is at least partly - if not entirely - money and profit driven. Doesn't stop us from buying those things or feeling they had value.


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## Ladybj

Sunny said:


> "There are none so blind as those who will not see."


I agree..


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## Ladybj

I read a third vaccine is on the way for people that has taken the vaccine - booster shot.  Also, people may have to take the vaccine annually.   As long as it helps...


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## tbeltrans

Though I am not a conspiracy theorist, this entire COVID thing is starting to feel like there is something very fundamental behind the scenes that isn't right.

Have you ever been in somebody's house where the kids seem to act just a bit odd and you have the gut sense that just maybe something is wrong?

That is the kind of sense/feeling that I am talking about - it is just out of my reach to identify, but I just sense that there is something odd going on.

Tony


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## Irwin

tbeltrans said:


> Though I am not a conspiracy theorist, this entire COVID thing is starting to feel like there is something very fundamental behind the scenes that isn't right.
> 
> Have you ever been in somebody's house where the kids seem to act just a bit odd and you have the gut sense that just maybe something is wrong?
> 
> That is the kind of sense/feeling that I am talking about - it is just out of my reach to identify, but I just sense that there is something odd going on.
> 
> Tony


Shape-shifting reptilian aliens from another planet? 

Now that you mention it, there was something odd about my second vaccination when they inserted a little chip in my shoulder. They told me it was for protection against software viruses. Is that a tracking chip?


----------



## tbeltrans

Irwin said:


> Shape-shifting reptilian aliens from another planet?
> 
> Now that you mention it, there was something odd about my second vaccination when they inserted a little chip in my shoulder. They told me it was for protection against software viruses. Is that a tracking chip?


What I mean is simply that something about the patterns we are seeing repeating just doesn't seem right to me.  Nothing to do with aliens or chip implants, though that would be a fun theory too.  It seems that every time we are told that things are starting to open up, there is yet another mutation and the cycle starts all over again.  We see business simply gone because they couldn't survive the lockdowns and we have the extended hardships on many people.  At some point, this must change, but we seem to be stuck in cycle after cycle of this thing.  It almost seems as if somebody somewhere is getting whatever desired result is from all this so it just continues without end.  Instead of a few weeks lockdown to even things out so as not to overload medical services, more than a year later, nothing has changed.

We just got back from the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN which is about 90 miles south of us.  The nice restaurant at the hotel we always stay with when down there, has been closed for some time.  I see a few of the Indian restaurants closed.  Some of the shops we used to like to visit are completely gone.  We can really see the impact this is having.  It is a very sad thing.

We have been taking all the precautions and we got our shots (I even bought some really good masks at the Mayo Clinic Store), so this isn't a complaint about these things, but instead an observation that really hit home when we went down to the Mayo Clinic.  I suppose we really notice those changes because we only go there every other year or so for my wife's medical requirements.

Tony


----------



## chic

tbeltrans said:


> What I mean is simply that something about the patterns we are seeing repeating just doesn't seem right to me.  Nothing to do with aliens or chip implants, though that would be a fun theory too.  It seems that every time we are told that things are starting to open up, there is yet another mutation and the cycle starts all over again.  We see business simply gone because they couldn't survive the lockdowns and we have the extended hardships on many people.  At some point, this must change, but we seem to be stuck in cycle after cycle of this thing.  It almost seems as if somebody somewhere is getting whatever desired result is from all this so it just continues without end.  Instead of a few weeks lockdown to even things out so as not to overload medical services, more than a year later, nothing has changed.
> 
> We just got back from the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN which is about 90 miles south of us.  The nice restaurant at the hotel we always stay with when down there, has been closed for some time.  I see a few of the Indian restaurants closed.  Some of the shops we used to like to visit are completely gone.  We can really see the impact this is having.  It is a very sad thing.
> 
> We have been taking all the precautions and we got our shots, so this isn't a complaint about these things, but instead an observation that really hit home when we went down to the Mayo Clinic.  I suppose we really notice those changes because we only go there every other year or so for my wife's medical requirements.
> 
> Tony


It's to try to keep people terrified and living in the highest possible level of stress because otherwise we might actually start to live again and for some reason they don't want this unless it is a pittance they will allow to us only in exchange for being vaccinated. But even the fully vaccinated are told to continue mask wearing and social distancing so what is the perk here?

Back in Dec. 2020 when the vaccine first became available in the U.K. not as many wanted to take it as was anticipated, so then came the talk about the deadly U.K. variant. Followed by the deadly Brazilian variant and top it off with the African variant and people believe what they are told and many began to change their minds about being vaccinated because of these "variants."


----------



## Irwin

tbeltrans said:


> What I mean is simply that something about the patterns we are seeing repeating just doesn't seem right to me.  Nothing to do with aliens or chip implants, though that would be a fun theory too.  It seems that every time we are told that things are starting to open up, there is yet another mutation and the cycle starts all over again.  We see business simply gone because they couldn't survive the lockdowns and we have the extended hardships on many people.  At some point, this must change, but we seem to be stuck in cycle after cycle of this thing.  It almost seems as if somebody somewhere is getting whatever desired result is from all this so it just continues without end.  Instead of a few weeks to even things out so as not to overload medical services, more than a year later, nothing has changed.
> 
> We just got back from the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN which is about 90 miles south of us.  The nice restaurant at the hotel we always stay with when down there, has been closed for some time.  I see a few of the Indian restaurants closed.  Some of the shops we used to like to visit are completely gone.  We can really see the impact this is having.  It is a very sad thing.
> 
> We have been taking all the precautions and we got our shots, so this isn't a complaint about these things, but instead an observation that really hit home when we went down to the Mayo Clinic.  I suppose we really notice those changes because we only go there every other year or so for my wife's medical requirements.
> 
> Tony


Yeah, it's true that it seems like there's a cycle of re-opening and then locking down again when cases start flaring up. Until we reach herd immunity, which will be when about 70% of the population is vaccinated, that will continue. Of course, we'll probably never reach herd immunity because of all the misinformation floating around about the vaccine.

Right now, only 23.4% of the population has been fully vaccinated, 37.8% have received at least one dose. Some states are doing better than others. Here in Colorado, we're at 40.2% partially vaccinated. When we reach the point where the vaccine is available to anyone who wants it, then all restrictions should probably be lifted. I think we're almost there... maybe just one more month.


----------



## WhatInThe

tbeltrans said:


> What I mean is simply that something about the patterns we are seeing repeating just doesn't seem right to me.  Nothing to do with aliens or chip implants, though that would be a fun theory too.  It seems that every time we are told that things are starting to open up, there is yet another mutation and the cycle starts all over again.  We see business simply gone because they couldn't survive the lockdowns and we have the extended hardships on many people.  At some point, this must change, but we seem to be stuck in cycle after cycle of this thing.  It almost seems as if somebody somewhere is getting whatever desired result is from all this so it just continues without end.  Instead of a few weeks to even things out so as not to overload medical services, more than a year later, nothing has changed.
> 
> We just got back from the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN which is about 90 miles south of us.  The nice restaurant at the hotel we always stay with when down there, has been closed for some time.  I see a few of the Indian restaurants closed.  Some of the shops we used to like to visit are completely gone.  We can really see the impact this is having.  It is a very sad thing.
> 
> We have been taking all the precautions and we got our shots, so this isn't a complaint about these things, but instead an observation that really hit home when we went down to the Mayo Clinic.  I suppose we really notice those changes because we only go there every other year or so for my wife's medical requirements.
> 
> Tony


I think it's a combination of cya policy, power trips and unknown including those in 'control' not knowing as much as they say hench cya policy. Throw in liability issues not helping. Nor are politics. And profits including those from disease related possibilities.

The response is the proverbial cure that is worse than the disease. But in this case too many lives were changed FOREVER. Yes some got sick and didn't make it but I know too many others who passed of other stufff wether it be disease, incompetance, their own doing etc. Sometimes life has to go on, move forward. 

I don't think they ever had a full handle on this and do not want to admit it.


----------



## Ladybj

tbeltrans said:


> Though I am not a conspiracy theorist, this entire COVID thing is starting to feel like there is something very fundamental behind the scenes that isn't right.
> 
> Have you ever been in somebody's house where the kids seem to act just a bit odd and you have the gut sense that just maybe something is wrong?
> 
> That is the kind of sense/feeling that I am talking about - it is just out of my reach to identify, but I just sense that there is something odd going on.
> 
> Tony


YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!  I am not on this boat alone.  I feel the SAME WAY!!!!!  It's like with all of this going on 2+2=22


----------



## Ladybj

WhatInThe said:


> I think it's a combination of cya policy, power trips and unknown including those in 'control' not knowing as much as they say hench cya policy. Throw in liability issues not helping. Nor are politics. And profits including those from disease related possibilities.
> 
> The response is the proverbial cure that is worse than the disease. But in this case too many lives were changed FOREVER. Yes some got sick and didn't make it but I know too many others who passed of other stufff wether it be disease, incompetance, their own doing etc. Sometimes life has to go on, move forward.
> 
> I don't think they ever had a full handle on this and do not want to admit it.


GREAT POST!!!!!!!!  But we are made to believe they had/have a handle on it.


----------



## Ladybj

Irwin said:


> Shape-shifting reptilian aliens from another planet?
> 
> Now that you mention it, there was something odd about my second vaccination when they inserted a little chip in my shoulder. They told me it was for protection against software viruses. Is that a tracking chip?


Make sure you have Wi-Fi to keep track of the software protection.


----------



## Ladybj

tbeltrans said:


> Though I am not a conspiracy theorist, this entire COVID thing is starting to feel like there is something very fundamental behind the scenes that isn't right.
> 
> Have you ever been in somebody's house where the kids seem to act just a bit odd and you have the gut sense that just maybe something is wrong?
> 
> That is the kind of sense/feeling that I am talking about - it is just out of my reach to identify, but I just sense that there is something odd going on.
> 
> Tony


Tony....what a great scenario regarding kids.  Years ago (my daughter was about 3 years old, she is now 29 yrs old)  when my daughter started with a new child care provider, I went to drop her off, she held me soooo close and was crying. She was caring for her for a few months.  Needless to say, I did not drop her off and did not take her back there again.  I felt in my gut something was wrong.


----------



## Warrigal

Ladybj said:


> Tony....what a great scenario regarding kids.  Years ago (my daughter was about 3 years old, she is now 29 yrs old)  when my daughter started with a new child care provider, I went to drop her off, she held me soooo close and was crying. She was caring for her for a few months.  Needless to say, I did not drop her off and did not take her back there again.  I felt in my gut something was wrong.


You were right to trust your gut.


----------

