# A mind-boggling issue, or am I missing something?



## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Hi all -

I hope this issue isn't too "heavy" for this forum section, but I tend to think there must be others faced with the same issue.

I have a close friend of about a quarter century who rather suddenly dropped off the radar screen about a year ago.  (Meaning, two P.O. boxes shut down, four email addresses shut down, two telephone numbers shut down (she worked from home.)  Paper mail rejected but her home was/is still on the tax rolls in her name.)  Her place is in Round Rock, Texas.

I had a couple of phone numbers of family members and associates, but all their phone numbers are no longer in service.

I'm up here in the Canadian north woods, retired, in somewhat shaky health, unable to afford to travel or hire a detective.

After a session with (an amazing) psychic, and a friend who was able to get the Round Rock, TX police missing persons bureau to look into my friend's status, we determined that she is in a care facility in Alice, Texas, a couple of hundred miles south, and is suffering from dementia.

The Round Rock police said they were not allowed to furnish more detail.

Now what this means in realistic terms is, I am probably cut off from any communications with my "incarcerated" friend for the rest of her life.

This is due to the medical confidentiality laws.

I have tried calling the nursing homes in the Alice, Texas area, asking for my friend by name in hopes a receptionist might slip up and confirm my friend's presence and let me contact her, with no luck.  This is commonly-given advice.

My question is, are there any members of this forum who have faced this issue before, and if yes, were you able to solve the problem and find contact information for your "incarcerated" friend or family member?

Another question is, this seems like rather extreme punishment for both people who are put into nursing home care and friends who want to contact them.  Didn't anyone framing confidentiality laws think about this?  Are there any organizations working on a solution?

Thanks for taking time to read this,

Eleanor White
Ontario, Canada


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## Kika (Sep 27, 2022)

She can probably receive mail.  Why not send a card with a note inside, and maybe include a picture of yourself to jog her memory.  Maybe enclose a self-addressed stamped envelope.  If she has any family over-seeing her care, I am sure they would respond to you.


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## Georgiagranny (Sep 27, 2022)

Wow. Strange about the phone numbers for family not being in service. Do you have addresses for them? If not, maybe you could send a letter to her old address and see what happens. It might take awhile as the USPS is notorious for taking their sweet time about forwarding snail mail.


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## Beezer (Sep 27, 2022)

EleanorW said:


> After a session with (an amazing) psychic


Psychic's take advantage of desperate and ill people and also the elderly. Please don't waste your money on this form of faith.


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Kika said:


> She can probably receive mail.  Why not send a card with a note inside, and maybe include a picture of yourself to jog her memory.  Maybe enclose a self-addressed stamped envelope.  If she has any family over-seeing her care, I am sure they would respond to you.


Good thought, but there are maybe 8 nursing homes in the Alice, TX area - should I send cards to all of them?  And wouldn't the staff treat a card the same as a call?

Eleanor White


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## Georgiagranny (Sep 27, 2022)

Nonono, Fluffy! Send mail to her old address. Surely somebody at some point filed a change of address for her mail.


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## Beezer (Sep 27, 2022)

...and probably not a good idea to use your real full name on an internet forum, Eleanor.


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## NorthernLight (Sep 27, 2022)

It's surprisingly easy to track someone down. You've already done most of the work.

There aren't that many care facilities in that town. I agree with @Kika that sending a card with a brief note would be nice. You could send one to each of the care homes where she might be.

They would give her the card. But they might open it first. So don't say you've been "searching" for her and aren't sure whether the card will reach her. Just send her your love and tell her your news or whatever.


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Georgiagranny said:


> Wow. Strange about the phone numbers for family not being in service. Do you have addresses for them? If not, maybe you could send a letter to her old address and see what happens. It might take awhile as the USPS is notorious for taking their sweet time about forwarding snail mail.


Thanks - however the Round Rock police confirmed what has happened to her, even if no details are available.  I don't have addresses or even complete names for family, unfortunately.

Eleanor White


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Georgiagranny said:


> Nonono, Fluffy! Send mail to her old address. Surely somebody at some point filed a change of address for her mail.


Interesting thought.  I've sent a couple of paper letters to her street address as well as former PO boxes.  All returned with "unable to forward."

If her family is handling her mail, I'd think they would either forward or maybe respond to obviously personal mail.

Eleanor White


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## Della (Sep 27, 2022)

The frequent changes of e-mail addresses before she disappeared make me suspect she was changing them because someone made her angry.  That often goes along with dementia.  I think sending a card is a great idea but be prepared for an answer that says she'll never forgive you for ... something you never did.

I wrote my father often during the last 30 years of his life but had to stop after he got dementia.  The last letter I wrote was light hearted and jokey in tone.  It just happened to arrive close to the anniversary of my mother's death 30 years earlier.  He thought it should have had a sadder tone.  The next time I visited he was still so mad at me he threatened to get a gun and shoot  me.  Dementia is a trip down a dark and murky road sometimes.


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Della said:


> The frequent changes of e-mail addresses before she disappeared make me suspect she was changing them because someone made her angry.  That often goes along with dementia.  I think sending a card is a great idea but be prepared for an answer that says she'll never forgive you for ... something you never did.
> 
> I wrote my father often during the last 30 years of his life but had to stop after he got dementia.  The last letter I wrote was light hearted and jokey in tone.  It just happened to arrive close to the anniversary of my mother's death 30 years earlier.  He thought it should have had a sadder tone.  The next time I visited he was still so mad at me he threatened to get a gun and shoot  me.  Dementia is a trip down a dark and murky road sometimes.


My friend's multiple email addresses were for work she was doing, and all of them were at least a decade in service before they were shut down.

I haven't been able to have any type of conversation with her since her diagnosis.  We had not been in close touch for the past couple of years.

Eleanor White


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## Georgiagranny (Sep 27, 2022)

@EleanorW In that case, I guess I'd just hunt up addresses for the nursing/memory care homes in the area and send a card to her at each of them. You're bound to strike gold with one of them.

How sad for you Good luck.


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## Kika (Sep 27, 2022)

Oh, sorry, I thought that you knew which nursing home in Alice, Texas
I don't have another suggestion.


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## Kika (Sep 27, 2022)

If you are absolutely sure that it is in Alice, Texas, there seems to be only 2 _Actually in_  Alice.  

9 Nursing Homes in Alice, TX - Find Reviews, Photos | SeniorAdvice.com


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Kika said:


> Oh, sorry, I thought that you knew which nursing home in Alice, Texas
> I don't have another suggestion.


But you have a nice kitty!  

Eleanor White


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## Georgiagranny (Sep 27, 2022)

Yo, @EleanorW  Now that you're here, stick around! We're a pretty decent group, and we can always use an additional member. You're bound to find topics that interest you.


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Georgiagranny said:


> Yo, @EleanorW  Now that you're here, stick around! We're a pretty decent group, and we can always use an additional member. You're bound to find topics that interest you.


I will, and thanks!

Eleanor White


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## hollydolly (Sep 27, 2022)

Welcome to the forum @EleanorW


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> Welcome to the forum @EleanorW


Thanks ... I'm a duck lover!

Eleanor White


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## Packerjohn (Sep 27, 2022)

Beezer said:


> Psychic's take advantage of desperate and ill people and also the elderly. Please don't waste your money on this form of faith.


You got that 100%.  I would never go to them "jokers" since I have always believed, "A Fool and His/Her money are quickly parted."  Keep away from people claiming "special powers" like they have Monkeypox.


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Kika said:


> If you are absolutely sure that it is in Alice, Texas, there seems to be only 2 _Actually in_  Alice.
> 
> 9 Nursing Homes in Alice, TX - Find Reviews, Photos | SeniorAdvice.com


Yes, I think I'll try some mailing - can't hurt!

Tragic, though, that nursing home residents are kept away from friends, even more than prisoners.

Eleanor White


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## Kika (Sep 27, 2022)

EleanorW said:


> Interesting thought. I've sent a couple of paper letters to her street address as well as former PO boxes. All returned with "unable to forward."


I think the post office has a limit on how long they will forward mail.  Could be only one year or maybe two.


EleanorW said:


> Tragic, though, that nursing home residents are kept away from friends, even more than prisoners.


I don't believe they are doing that.  Perhaps only if her family specified only certain named visitors.  That could be possible if she had somehow been abused. Physically? financially? emotionally?


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Kika said:


> I think the post office has a limit on how long they will forward mail.  Could be only one year or maybe two.
> 
> I don't believe they are doing that.  Perhaps only if her family specified only certain named visitors.  That could be possible if she had somehow been abused. Physically? financially? emotionally?


My friend was unmarried and lived alone pretty well for most of her adult life.  There was no question of abuse that I ever heard about.

Unfortunately, as best I know, this confidentiality blockade of location information applies throughout both the U.S. and Canada - it's not related to family at all.  Family wishes would come into effect if I were to find exactly where she is.

The missing piece of this puzzle is, as I see it, why can't there be a procedure where a nursing home would acknowledge the resident is there, and would accept written communications to be given to the resident.  The resident (or family if mentally incapable) would then decide whether to reply or not.

I don't see that as a threat or undue burden on staff, (but then hey, I'm not in charge either!)

People have names on mailboxes, and car licence plates showing, so I don't see why knowing where they reside has caused serious danger to the vast majority of people.

Eleanor White


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## Della (Sep 27, 2022)

EleanorW said:


> My friend's multiple email addresses were for work she was doing, and all of them were at least a decade in service before they were shut down.
> 
> I haven't been able to have any type of conversation with her since her diagnosis.  We had not been in close touch for the past couple of years.
> 
> Eleanor White


Right. I didn't mean to imply that she was mad at you, just _someone._ As I said.  Sorry.


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## Tish (Sep 27, 2022)

I agree with @Kika send a few letters.

BTW Welcome.


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## Kika (Sep 27, 2022)

EleanorW said:


> Unfortunately, as best I know, this confidentiality blockade of location information applies throughout both the U.S. and Canada - it's not related to family at all. Family wishes would come into effect if I were to find exactly where she is.


HIPAA - protects patient's privacy as well as a slew of other things.



EleanorW said:


> The missing piece of this puzzle is, as I see it, why can't there be a procedure where a nursing home would acknowledge the resident is there, and would accept written communications to be given to the resident. The resident (or family if mentally incapable) would then decide whether to reply or not.


There are lots of reasons why they will not and cannot acknowledge if a patient/resident is there.  Especially important these days.  Process servers, people with guns or knives or other weapons.

However, a facility cannot intercept and withhold mail addressed to a resident.
The facility becomes that resident's home.  And the facility cannot "tamper" with U.S.Mail.


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## Kika (Sep 27, 2022)

Sorry...Welcome.  I'm sure you will be very happy here


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## Knight (Sep 27, 2022)

EleanorW said:


> My friend was unmarried and lived alone pretty well for most of her adult life.  There was no question of abuse that I ever heard about.
> 
> Unfortunately, as best I know, this confidentiality blockade of location information applies throughout both the U.S. and Canada - it's not related to family at all.  Family wishes would come into effect if I were to find exactly where she is.
> 
> ...


Try writing to the directors of facilities you think where she might be. Explain what you explain here & include a self addressed envelope asking that they would be kind enough to answer one way or the other.


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Knight said:


> Try writing to the directors of facilities you think where she might be. Explain what you explain here & include a self addressed envelope asking that they would be kind enough to answer one way or the other.


Great thought, however, the recorded message from at least the two nursing homes in Alice TX says they won't give out the names of any staff members either.

I would have liked to contact the chaplains, but without names, I can't do that.

I have emailed several local churches asking if any of them provide chaplaincy services to area nursing homes.  Total silence.

Eleanor White


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

OOPS - I didn't realize that there is a running strip for very brief comments.  I found yours, officerripley and thanks.

[OLD] I keep getting a notice that forum member officerripley has replied, but repeated attempts to refresh reply page 2 (the current page) do not show anything from officerripley.

Eleanor White


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## Pink Biz (Sep 27, 2022)

At this point, I would give up on trying to ferret out information about your friend and just hope that she is being taken care of as well as possible. There's only so much you can do without becoming obsessed with this issue, and being annoying rather than helpful.


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Pink Biz said:


> At this point, I would give up on trying to ferret out information about your friend and just hope that she is being taken care of as well as possible. There's only so much you can do without becoming obsessed with this issue, and being annoying rather than helpful.


She is alive and has the right to be contacted by her friends.  I'm not going to do anything illegal, but I don't consider trying to locate her as obsessed.

Eleanor White


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## Knight (Sep 27, 2022)

EleanorW said:


> She is alive and has the right to be contacted by her friends.  I'm not going to do anything illegal, but I don't consider trying to locate her as obsessed.
> 
> Eleanor White


You do realize that her being cared for due to Alzheimer's that even if you managed to establish her whereabouts she most likely wouldn't have a clue who you are. Unless of course you managed to make contact during one of her lucid moments. 

Alzheimer's is a cruel disease of the mind that leaves a person unable to care for themselves. So if your friend is being cared for that is the best you or anyone could hope for. We cared for my mother in law for years, it was almost comical at times when she had lucid moments of recognition. Then is an instant she was gone again.


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## Seren (Sep 27, 2022)

Welcome Eleanor,
I can hear the concern and worry in your voice, and have no words of advice as it sounds as if you exhausted all possible avenues in trying to contact your friend, without success. At least you do know she is in a care facility, and has dementia - most likely the reason you haven't heard from her - and as others have said, even if you could contact her she may not know who you are.
Sending you a virtual hug in sympathy.
I hope you will stay and get to know people here and find topics that interest you. You can make other new friends who won't replace the one you can't contact, but can help ease the pain and loss of connection with her.


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## HoneyNut (Sep 27, 2022)

EleanorW said:


> My question is, are there any members of this forum who have faced this issue before, and if yes, were you able to solve the problem and find contact information for your "incarcerated" friend or family member?


No, I only got lucky on my friend that 'disappeared' when her niece was going through her aunt's saved correspondence and sent a message to everyone who she could tell was a friend, the info that her aunt had gone into a memory care facility.  The niece included the address and I sent my friend a card/letter, but I didn't get a reply and my life got busy and now it has been so many years and I don't even know if she is still alive.


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Knight said:


> You do realize that her being cared for due to Alzheimer's that even if you managed to establish her whereabouts she most likely wouldn't have a clue who you are. Unless of course you managed to make contact during one of her lucid moments.
> 
> Alzheimer's is a cruel disease of the mind that leaves a person unable to care for themselves. So if your friend is being cared for that is the best you or anyone could hope for. We cared for my mother in law for years, it was almost comical at times when she had lucid moments of recognition. Then is an instant she was gone again.


I do realize that, and I also realize that severity of symptoms can vary.  I don't think she would mind if I made an attempt to communicate.

Eleanor White


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## Teacher Terry (Sep 27, 2022)

_A good friend of mine was in a memory care nursing facility and when her friends on another state called and asked for her they put her on the phone. She had dementia. _


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## EleanorW (Sep 27, 2022)

Teacher Terry said:


> _A good friend of mine was in a memory care nursing facility and when her friends on another state called and asked for her they put her on the phone. She had dementia. _


Thanks ... I don't see how it would hurt to try.

Eleanor White


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## EleanorW (Sep 28, 2022)

For those who may be interested, there is a rather wide range of remedies for dementia called "nootropics."

Here is an 18-minute video by a doctor who was able to restore a fair bit of memory in her dementia-stricken husband with a dose of 7 teaspoons of coconut oil per day.  (One must be sure any type of oil these days is genuine.  Genuine coconut oil solidifies around room temperature.)






I'm fighting off dementia myself, and nootropics seem to keep the worst of it rolled back.

Eleanor White


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## fuzzybuddy (Sep 30, 2022)

If your friend is in a nursing home with dementia, there's a good chance she may not remember you. Medical confidentiality laws do exist for a reason. Would you want your nosy neighbor to call your doctor to see what's really wrong with you?
Residents in nursing homes can have phones, computers and get mail, but, of course, that's only if they are mentally able.


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## EleanorW (Sep 30, 2022)

fuzzybuddy said:


> If your friend is in a nursing home with dementia, there's a good chance she may not remember you. Medical confidentiality laws do exist for a reason. Would you want your nosy neighbor to call your doctor to see what's really wrong with you?
> Residents in nursing homes can have phones, computers and get mail, but, of course, that's only if they are mentally able.


Got it.

My plan would be for nursing homes to accept communications for a resident, and pass it on to them, and let the resident decide whether  to respond.  If not capable, the home could tell the communicator the message was passed on and no further information is available.

That doesn't give nosies access.

The home, under my plan, would not give any information out as to the reason the resident is there.

Additionally, dementia patients can be lucid at times, so I think nursing homes could at least accept a request to communicate.

I think current laws are "convenient" for staff, but have gone too far in terms of "privacy."

Eleanor White


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 30, 2022)

EleanorW said:


> Hi all -
> 
> I hope this issue isn't too "heavy" for this forum section, but I tend to think there must be others faced with the same issue.
> 
> ...


I think if your friend has severe dementia/Alzheimer's Disease, she may not be able to communicate with anyone and may not even know who you are or who she is.  It's nice that you're a caring friend, but realistically in these cases, the family has access to the patient and makes decisions for them.  Sorry this happened, but calling it incarceration is overreacting, IMO.  Trying to contact a family member is your best bet to find out how your friend is doing.


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## EleanorW (Sep 30, 2022)

SeaBreeze said:


> I think if your friend has severe dementia/Alzheimer's Disease, she may not be able to communicate with anyone and may not even know who you are or who she is.  It's nice that you're a caring friend, but realistically in these cases, the family has access to the patient and makes decisions for them.  Sorry this happened, but calling it incarceration is overreacting, IMO.  Trying to contact a family member is your best bet to find out how your friend is doing.


I'd gladly contact a family member, but due to the huge geographic distance, I never had full contact info for the family.  I had a couple of phone numbers but they have long since gone out of service.

Hopefully one of the local churches will eventually answer.

Eleanor White


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