# Would you move to another Country for cheap health care?



## Robert59

Been told by a person that signs people up for Medicare that the U.S. have the most expensive health insurance in the world. This person is married to a foreigner that she and her husband gets real cheap health care in his country. Like a leg surgery here is like 10,000 and his country 400 dollars for the same care.


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## hollydolly

*Well we get our health care FREE so there is nowhere cheaper..*


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## treeguy64

I avoid doctors and hospitals. I doubt I'd want to deal with any in a country foreign to me, no matter the cost.


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## SeaBreeze

Same as treeguy, I rarely see a doctor and even if I needed a serious operation or care, I would have it done in the United States.  In no way would I move to another country for this, and definitely wouldn't go to Mexico for a quicky procedure....heard a lot of horror stories on that.


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## applecruncher

No.
I would not move to another country for any reason.
As far as cheap/free health care or anything else, you (usually) get what you pay for.


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## oldmontana

Robert59 said:


> Been told by a person that signs people up for Medicare that the U.S. have the most expensive health insurance in the world. This person is married to a foreigner that she and her husband gets real cheap health care in his country. Like a leg surgery here is like 10,000 and his country 400 dollars for the same care.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Like a leg surgery here is like 10,000
> 
> Like were? I do not buy that.


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## Robert59

Was in India


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## oldmontana

Robert59 said:


> Was in India
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> India?   I was asking were it would cost $10,000.


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## RadishRose

No


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## Camper6

applecruncher said:


> No.
> I would not move to another country for any reason.
> As far as cheap/free health care or anything else, you (usually) get what you pay for.


Not always.


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## applecruncher

Camper6 said:


> Not always.



That's why I said usually. From what I've heard about free health care, No Thanks.
But, as I said, I have no desire to move to another country.


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## GreenSky

It's interesting that foreign travel for medical care is becoming a big industry.  You can indeed get procedures like hip replacements, etc at a much lower cost.  It's really a huge industry.  But I don't believe there is any better medical care than what we get in the US.  And my health is worth a few bucks.

Many people in southwestern states go to Mexico for dental treatment.  Some of my clients swear by it.

As for me, I'm on Medicare.  And because I have a supplement rather than an advantage plan I can get the best of care anywhere in the 50 states.  My cost for the month is about $175 for Medicare, supplement and a drug plan.  I'm okay with that.  Aside from an annual deductible under $200 and up to $20 to see a doctor, I really have no other out of pocket costs for my care.

Rick


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## GreenSky

hollydolly said:


> *Well we get our health care FREE so there is nowhere cheaper..*


No, you really don't.  You pay high taxes for your "free" care.  Hospitals are so overcrowded in England that patients stay in the hallway.  There is a terrible shortage of nurses because they are paid so little.  Same with doctors.  When the government controls medical you can bet there will be problems.

So, you can please keep your "free" care.  I prefer to get quality.

Rick


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## applecruncher

^^^ Great post, GreenSky


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## Robert59

10,000 here in the United State she said.


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## hollydolly

GreenSky said:


> No, you really don't.  You pay high taxes for your "free" care.  Hospitals are so overcrowded in England that patients stay in the hallway.  There is a terrible shortage of nurses because they are paid so little.  Same with doctors.  When the government controls medical you can bet there will be problems.
> 
> So, you can please keep your "free" care.  I prefer to get quality.
> 
> Rick


 Wow !! such vitriol, about a country you don't live in... !! we don't pay any higher taxes than you in the USA (yes waiting lists are long  and  ''staying in corridors'' isn't ideal  but  it's only while waiting for admission, and simply because this is a very small Island we just don't have the space to build more and more hospitals for the influx of Immigrants who want to come here for FREE medical) ...and really you shouldn't believe everything you read in the media .

  Do you see any of the Brits on here any more unhealthy than the average  American?.. no, because our health care is just as good if not better than the USA at point of source....and we don't have to pay High insurance premiums to get it or have people so poverty stricken they cannot afford to have a much needed operation without potentially  losing their home  as happens in the USA . 

Also remember many people have never worked a day in their lives, either through disability or sheer laziness, they get exactly the same quality of care that everyone who has paid into the Tax system gets, no difference..  does that happen in the USA..?

Equally we have an excellent  Private medical system here too if we choose to pay out of pocket for our care, and no long waiting lists , and I can assure you our  medical  Insurance premiums would even scratch the surface of what you have to pay!!


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## Camper6

applecruncher said:


> That's why I said usually. From what I've heard about free health care, No Thanks.
> But, as I said, I have no desire to move to another country.


Nothing is really free. Someone has to pay the bills. The best health care is what you do for yourself.


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## applecruncher

Camper6 said:


> Nothing is really free. Someone has to pay the bills. The best health care is what you do for yourself.



Yeah. That's common knowledge, but thanks for sharing.


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## Lethe200

Since it doesn't happen to be that easy to move to another country and become either a citizen or permanent visitor status, discussing this as a hypothetical question may not help anyone.

Unless you are married to a foreign-born resident or hold dual citizenship, it can be quite difficult to receive approval to become a foreign citizen. It took friends of ours two years to become permanent residents of Panama, and the wife spoke fluent Spanish (she was born/raised in South America). The basic medical care was excellent - most Americans seem unaware that a large percentage of foreign doctors and nurses receive their training in the U.S.

However, for difficult illnesses/operations and specialist care, Cuba is the center point for all of Central and South America. It's where everyone goes for critical care. It's how Castro's government survived all those decades of US embargo. The medical system for foreigners who pay that much-needed hard cash is extremely important to their economy. Their doctors are esteemed so highly that even Communist leaders from Europe and Asia have secretly gone to Cuba when they needed specialized treatments.


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## Don M.

Statistically, the US health care costs are almost twice those of most other developed nations.  However, many of those nations require much longer waiting periods, etc., for surgeries, and specialized care/treatments, etc., so there are tradeoffs...both pro and con.  There are some nations which do a thriving business in "tourist" healthcare....Thailand, for one, which has a very good reputation for inexpensive heart care.  IMO, our nation would be well advised to look at what works so well in other nations, rather than locking our people completely into our present "for Profit" system.  I would consider going to another nation for a specific treatment, but would never consider moving permanently just for health care.


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## Keesha

I’m happy with our healthcare here in Canada. 
Its a free service which I like. We may pay for it elsewhere but I’m ok with that. It’s there when and if I need it but I’m very proactive in my our healthcare by taking preventive precautions and staying active.


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## Ladybj

treeguy64 said:


> I avoid doctors and hospitals. I doubt I'd want to deal with any in a country foreign to me, no matter the cost.


Me to... I avoid them like the plague. However, if I need them, I know where to find them. This is just my humble opinion but when you get to a certain mature elder age, they find reasons to test you on different meds... no thanks, I'm good.


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## Ladybj

No... That's all I got.


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## Packerjohn

Traveling in the US & staying with families, I have found that the  people who 't like government health & praise the US system are those who have been in the military & of course are well taken care off.  The rich or the well provided for have have never & will never understand the less privileged.  Sad!


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## Packerjohn

Heard from one "old timer" that used to winter in Arizona that he will no longer go there.  His reason, it will cost him $10,000 Canadian for 4 months health insurance.  Don't know why he doesn't go to Mexico?


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## Camper6

Lethe200 said:


> Since it doesn't happen to be that easy to move to another country and become either a citizen or permanent visitor status, discussing this as a hypothetical question may not help anyone.
> 
> Unless you are married to a foreign-born resident or hold dual citizenship, it can be quite difficult to receive approval to become a foreign citizen. It took friends of ours two years to become permanent residents of Panama, and the wife spoke fluent Spanish (she was born/raised in South America). The basic medical care was excellent - most Americans seem unaware that a large percentage of foreign doctors and nurses receive their training in the U.S.
> 
> However, for difficult illnesses/operations and specialist care, Cuba is the center point for all of Central and South America. It's where everyone goes for critical care. It's how Castro's government survived all those decades of US embargo. The medical system for foreigners who pay that much-needed hard cash is extremely important to their economy. Their doctors are esteemed so highly that even Communist leaders from Europe and Asia have secretly gone to Cuba when they needed specialized treatments.


Our city donates medical equipment to Cuba.
Canada does not have an embargo on Cuba. Thanks for the information.


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## Camper6

Packerjohn said:


> Heard from one "old timer" that used to winter in Arizona that he will no longer go there.  His reason, it will cost him $10,000 Canadian for 4 months health insurance.  Don't know why he doesn't go to Mexico?


Here's the thing Packerjohn.  It's not just the insurance cost.  I can get insurance but they only cover anything that is not a prior condition.  So when you get old what is a prior condition.?
I asked the insurance company.  Anything you are taking pills for is not covered.  For instance if you are taking blood pressure pills and you have a complication like a stroke, they won't pay.
Some people I know still go and don't take any insurance at all.  They plan to be flown back to Canada for treatment.
It's best to make the best of it and try to find a warmer spot in your own country.
The Americans are good about allowing travellers to bring prescription drugs with them for their personal use.


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## Packerjohn

I take pills for blood pressure and pills for other stuff.  Guess I don't count.  It's all a gamble.  You pay for insurance & really hope never to need it.  Insurance has become a real racket.  The companies take in millions but don't pay out unless they absolutely have to.  If it is a small claim, they pay & then jack up your premiums because you have made a claim.  However, get sick in Arizona, spent a month in the hospital & get a big fat bill from the hospital, then the insurance company will pass your claim through a whole ensemble of lawyers looking for some tiny loop hole in your claim so that they don't have to pay out.  How come I imagine a bunch of blood thirsty weasels feeding on a bush chicken ?  Furthermore, I have traveled in & used doctors in Spain, South Africa & Mexico.  In each case I paid cash to the doctor.  Works well but in the USA, WATCH OUT!  That's too bad because we have spent 2 winters in Port Isabel, Texas & met a lot of wonderful locals there.


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## GreenSky

Packerjohn said:


> I take pills for blood pressure and pills for other stuff.  Guess I don't count.  It's all a gamble.  You pay for insurance & really hope never to need it.  Insurance has become a real racket.  The companies take in millions but don't pay out unless they absolutely have to.  If it is a small claim, they pay & then jack up your premiums because you have made a claim.  However, get sick in Arizona, spent a month in the hospital & get a big fat bill from the hospital, then the insurance company will pass your claim through a whole ensemble of lawyers looking for some tiny loop hole in your claim so that they don't have to pay out.  How come I imagine a bunch of blood thirsty weasels feeding on a bush chicken ?  Furthermore, I have traveled in & used doctors in Spain, South Africa & Mexico.  In each case I paid cash to the doctor.  Works well but in the USA, WATCH OUT!  That's too bad because we have spent 2 winters in Port Isabel, Texas & met a lot of wonderful locals there.



As far as insurance for US residents, what you post is completely wrong.  There has never been nor is there now a company that raises your rates because of claims.  It's something told to us by those who want single payer as a scare tactic.  Obama did that VERY well.

Companies don't look for loopholes to avoid paying.  That's really such a load of garbage I don't know why I bother responding.

Rick


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## charry

hollydolly said:


> Wow !! such vitriol, about a country you don't live in... !! we don't pay any higher taxes than you in the USA (yes waiting lists are long  and  ''staying in corridors'' isn't ideal  but  it's only while waiting for admission, and simply because this is a very small Island we just don't have the space to build more and more hospitals for the influx of Immigrants who want to come here for FREE medical) ...and really you shouldn't believe everything you read in the media .
> 
> Do you see any of the Brits on here any more unhealthy than the average  American?.. no, because our health care is just as good if not better than the USA at point of source....and we don't have to pay High insurance premiums to get it or have people so poverty stricken they cannot afford to have a much needed operation without potentially  losing their home  as happens in the USA .
> 
> Also remember many people have never worked a day in their lives, either through disability or sheer laziness, they get exactly the same quality of care that everyone who has paid into the Tax system gets, no difference..  does that happen in the USA..?
> 
> Equally we have an excellent  Private medical system here too if we choose to pay out of pocket for our care, and no long waiting lists , and I can assure you our  medical  Insurance premiums would even scratch the surface of what you have to pay!!





Well Said Holly....I totally Agree.....


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## Butterfly

Packerjohn said:


> Heard from one "old timer" that used to winter in Arizona that he will no longer go there.  His reason, it will cost him $10,000 Canadian for 4 months health insurance.  Don't know why he doesn't go to Mexico?



I know a number of people who go to Mexico for certain things, like dental work, for instance.  But you have to really know what you're doing to be sure you get good health care there.  There are undoubtedly good health care facilities and practitioners there, but also many not so good and it's not like you can just walk down the street and tell which is which.


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## applecruncher

A friend who lives in Arizona got dental implants in Mexico. She said the cost was about 1/3 what it usually is, including travel and lodging. She and her DH did a lot of research and talked to people who had it done years ago, she is very pleased.


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## OneEyedDiva

No I wouldn't. Don't need to because I have an excellent medigap plan through my retiree benefits.  I haven't had to pay for my procedures/surgeries nor the first post op visits.  After that, there's a $10 co-pay. But I've been reading about medical tourism that people take to get surgeries done.  Some of the facilities in these places looked very nice and are supposedly quite good and the savings is substantial (eg 75 - 90% in India).  I no longer have access to older articles I've read but this article I just found lists some popular destinations, including India.
https://www.mappingmegan.com/popular-destinations-medical-tourism/


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## peppermint

I'm good!!  I have retiree benefits...


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## Lc jones

hollydolly said:


> Wow !! such vitriol, about a country you don't live in... !! we don't pay any higher taxes than you in the USA (yes waiting lists are long  and  ''staying in corridors'' isn't ideal  but  it's only while waiting for admission, and simply because this is a very small Island we just don't have the space to build more and more hospitals for the influx of Immigrants who want to come here for FREE medical) ...and really you shouldn't believe everything you read in the media .
> 
> Do you see any of the Brits on here any more unhealthy than the average  American?.. no, because our health care is just as good if not better than the USA at point of source....and we don't have to pay High insurance premiums to get it or have people so poverty stricken they cannot afford to have a much needed operation without potentially  losing their home  as happens in the USA .
> 
> Also remember many people have never worked a day in their lives, either through disability or sheer laziness, they get exactly the same quality of care that everyone who has paid into the Tax system gets, no difference..  does that happen in the USA..?
> 
> Equally we have an excellent  Private medical system here too if we choose to pay out of pocket for our care, and no long waiting lists , and I can assure you our  medical  Insurance premiums would even scratch the surface of what you have to pay!!



Respectfully, I don’t believe that people who don’t work a day in their lives due to laziness should get anything. Why should I have to pay for a person who wants to sit on their tush and live off of my families hard work? That is wrong.


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## Lc jones

Healthcare is not free, either in a socialist country or capitalist country. Personally I prefer my liberty and do not want to be told by the government what I must do.


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## Lvstotrvl

I’m good!


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## JimBob1952

hollydolly said:


> *Well we get our health care FREE so there is nowhere cheaper..*


Amazing!  So you don't have to pay taxes to support your healthcare system?

Economics 101, nothing is "free"

Germany has the best healthcare system in the world, but Germans pay an 8 percent tax that is dedicated to it.  And there is no cap - if you make $1 million in a year, you pay $80,000 in taxes just for healthcare.


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## Butterfly

GreenSky said:


> As far as insurance for US residents, what you post is completely wrong.  There has never been nor is there now a company that raises your rates because of claims.  It's something told to us by those who want single payer as a scare tactic.  Obama did that VERY well.
> 
> Companies don't look for loopholes to avoid paying.  That's really such a load of garbage I don't know why I bother responding.
> 
> Rick



My sister is one of those who seriously believes that stuff and gets all riled up about it,  She is also convinced that any error in medical billing is an attempt to cheat her out of her money.  It gets very old.  I do not know where she gets those ideas, but I wish she would stop. I get very tired of having to talk her off the ceiling about stuff like that.


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## StarSong

I would be very uncomfortable getting medical care in a non-English speaking country.  What could be more terrifying than being unable to understand exactly what is being said during a medical crisis?


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## Warrigal

Hubby and I have private health insurance @ $A398.00 per month but we also have a universal scheme called Medicare. Everyone is covered by Medicare, with or without health insurance for public hospital treatment and for doctor's visits where the practice bulk bills  Medicare. Pensioners are usually bulk billed. If they don't bulk bill there may be a gap that has to be paid. This can usually be claimed against insurance.

To give you an example - I have had both knees and one hip replaced by the same orthopedic surgeon. I am due for a check up soon and he sent a reminder letter with referrals for X rays and requesting a new referral letter from my GP. Saw the GP this week and was bulk billed. As well as the referral letter, I received a new script for my blood pressure medication - no charge for any of it. Today I went down to an X ray centre and walked in without an appointment and only waited about 10 minutes. They had my details in the system so I did not have to produce any card or identification, just the referral letter from the GP. X rays finished, I didn't have to sign anything, not was there any charge.

Would I go anywhere else for medical treatment? Not on your nelly**. I am too well served at home.

** For those not familiar with this phrase

not on your nelly
cockney rhyming slang for not on your life. nelly rhymes with smelly, which leads to smelly breath, breath leads to breathing to keep alive, leading to not on your life.


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## charry

yes i would move to another country....but not for cheap health care.......For the SUNSHINE


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## Pinky

Canada and Australia have similar health-care programs, and they are the best, in my opinion.


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## hollydolly

charry said:


> yes i would move to another country....but not for cheap health care.......For the SUNSHINE


 I've got a house in Spain for sale if you want it....


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## hollydolly

Lc jones said:


> Respectfully, I don’t believe that people who don’t work a day in their lives due to laziness should get anything. Why should I have to pay for a person who wants to sit on their tush and live off of my families hard work? That is wrong.


I feel that  many tax paying hard working people in the UK feel the same. 

 My husband who pays mega tax every month  definitely feels that way...  and I agree in some ways, why should my money go not only to pay for these people of which believe me there are many, ( of course we're only talking about adults who have never worked through sheer laziness)  and who clog up the whole system making waiting times for essential treatment for people who pay taxes, much, _much_ longer and  at the same time we're paying for their Dole money as well as other benefits... . however I also battle with the thought that I'd be horrified to see someone dying in pain and agony in a free country , just because they couldn't get the meds that they desperately can't afford..

In retrospect perhaps if they knew they wouldn't get free treatment then magically they may be able to find a job, instead of making excuses about benefits paying more than a minimum wage..

I have a whole ton of things I could say on this subject but I won't because  the discussion of politics is not permitted  here..and that subject  is definitely one hot potato. ...so I will leave it at that!!


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## toffee

NHS still rocks for us over here - I have lived in 5 countries  and paid on the nose for all medi services 
so I wont knock ours here …….........


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## Autumn72

Ladybj said:


> Me to... I avoid them like the plague. However, if I need them, I know where to find them. This is just my humble opinion but when you get to a certain mature elder age, they find reasons to test you on different meds... no thanks, I'm good.


I had huge issue with Mercy Hospital here in May. The nursing staff, you have no way to protect you from abuse authority.


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## C'est Moi

No, I would not.


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## Liberty

Pinky said:


> Canada and Australia have similar health-care programs, and they are the best, in my opinion.


I have a friend in the BC area, that has been in pain, has bled a lot from her uterus and has an abdominal hernia that has been approved  for an operation, but has been waiting for months and months because its "not life threatening".   This I do not personally call good medical care.  The way to make a non life threatening issue a life threatening issue is to do nothing about it. Really do feel for her.


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## Pinky

Liberty said:


> I have a friend in the BC area, that has been in pain, has bled a lot from her uterus and has an abdominal hernia that has been approved  for an operation, but has been waiting for months and months because its "not life threatening".   This I do not personally call good medical care.  The way to make a non life threatening issue a life threatening issue is to do nothing about it. Really do feel for her.



Every Province handles medical conditions differently. BC Med, for instance, would not had the same guidelines as OHIP in Ontario. I can't slam our system here in Ontario. I've had numerous tests and surgeries through my 50+ years in this Province, and have only had to pay for one specialist appointment which is now covered. We did pay extra for a private room when I had my caesarean 36 yrs. ago. Even when I had a problem renewing my card not too long ago (due to not changing my name again after divorce), my doctor did not refuse to see me, and told staff to book my appointments as usual. This went on for months. I'll keep our health system, thank you.

I hope your friend gets adequate treatment through her Provincial Health system, soon.
If not, if I were her, I would change doctors, pronto!


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## Liberty

Pinky said:


> Every Province handles medical conditions differently. BC Med, for instance, would not had the same guidelines as OHIP in Ontario. I can't slam our system here in Ontario. I've had numerous tests and surgeries through my 50+ years in this Province, and have only had to pay for one specialist appointment which is now covered. We did pay extra for a private room when I had my caesarean 36 yrs. ago. Even when I had a problem renewing my card not too long ago (due to not changing my name again after divorce), my doctor did not refuse to see me, and told staff to book my appointments as usual. This went on for months. I'll keep our health system, thank you.
> 
> I hope your friend gets adequate treatment through her Provincial Health system, soon.


Yes, Pinky...think it is so sad for her. Had no idea that was how it was done.  So much for good "universal" health care.  Thanks for enlightening me on that.


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## ClassicRockr

Camper6 said:


> Nothing is really free. Someone has to pay the bills. The best health care is what you do for yourself.


Not necessarily true! I couldn't do a thing about my hip, when it needed to be replaced. Two shoulder rotator cuff surgeries (each shoulder) from falls. Some things simply have to be taken care of by a doctor! I was EMS for some years, as well as working for a Senior Healthcare Company and seen how many Seniors needed healthcare and got it.


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## Rojo

Healthcare (and prescription meds) are ridiculously expensive. But I definitely would not move out of the U.S.


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## ClassicRockr

Medical coverage monthly premiums just keeps going up, almost by the year. All of my coverage, Medicare B, my Supplement and Rx Plan all went up this month. We are now paying, by the month, $410...….and, that just for me, not including my wife's coverage. 

Higher cost due to more Medicare patients having major surgeries done and the cost of these surgeries has skyrocketed?


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## Camper6

ClassicRockr said:


> Not necessarily true! I couldn't do a thing about my hip, when it needed to be replaced. Two shoulder rotator cuff surgeries (each shoulder) from falls. Some things simply have to be taken care of by a doctor! I was EMS for some years, as well as working for a Senior Healthcare Company and seen how many Seniors needed healthcare and got it.


I have known a few people who have had knee and hip replacements.  They were joggers.  This is what I meant by looking after yourself.


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## Liberty

ClassicRockr said:


> Medical coverage monthly premiums just keeps going up, almost by the year. All of my coverage, Medicare B, my Supplement and Rx Plan all went up this month. We are now paying, by the month, $410...….and, that just for me, not including my wife's coverage.
> 
> Higher cost due to more Medicare patients having major surgeries done and the cost of these surgeries has skyrocketed?


That seems high.  Maybe you should shop around for your supplement and D?  We pay $14 a month on the D and less than $150 a month each for G medigap supplement.  Good luck!


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## Nautilus

Robert59 said:


> Was in India


Mother Teresa had her surgery done in California.


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## Ken N Tx

ClassicRockr said:


> Medical coverage monthly premiums just keeps going up, almost by the year. All of my coverage, Medicare B, my Supplement and Rx Plan all went up this month. We are now paying, by the month, $410...….and, that just for me, not including my wife's coverage.


All Supplement Plans coverage are the same...Insurance companies set their own premium, search for a company with the lowest premium!! and you can change supplement providers any time during the year..You may have a problem if you have a pre-existing condition..


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## Macfan

No, here I was born, here I will die. The grass may be greener on the other side but when you get there, you realize it's still grass. Go to another country when I can't even get out of California? Perfect doesn't exist, so I'll stay where I'm comfortable and enjoy watching others as they chase the brass ring. Don...


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## Autumn72

Ladybj said:


> Me to... I avoid them like the plague. However, if I need them, I know where to find them. This is just my humble opinion but when you get to a certain mature elder age, they find reasons to test you on different meds... no thanks, I'm good.


I just came from such a hospital here in the USA.
AS you stated in your post, sure hit a nerve with me. It's exactly as you made clear on your closing statement!!
I am the recipient of this matter! 
I am suffering under this medication delimma sick to the gills and no way of getting real help in a ER way the compensation the two meds made me so sick swelling up red rash palms and yet another form of replacement of two more meds. That did not arrive by mail together as I was surprised that the RN when I called up stated I was suppose to take together for 10 days! Even thought the replacement #1 is 4 more days. The #2 one made me so ill that I stopped it even if I die. I feel as you stressed this all for pain yet I feel used and abused.


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## dseag2

We have friends who lived with their elderly mother in Costa Rica and received great health care for her at a low cost.  They are now back in Dallas because it is so hard to get anything done there due to the lack of infrastructure and the bureaucracy. Some of our friends are seriously considering Portugal, which is a great retirement destination, but honestly we love our lives in Dallas so higher healthcare costs are secondary at this point.  I doubt we will leave.


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## john19485

Packerjohn said:


> Traveling in the US & staying with families, I have found that the  people who 't like government health & praise the US system are those who have been in the military & of course are well taken care off.  The rich or the well provided for have have never & will never understand the less privileged.  Sad!


I am a 100% service connected disabled combat veteran, I will never set foot in the death house they call a V.A. Hospital, I pay about $800. a month in insurance , to make sure , I never have to go to the  V.A. these people are killers.


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## horseless carriage

hollydolly said:


> *Well we get our health care FREE so there is nowhere cheaper..*


Free, at the point of delivery, yes. But if you look at one of your pay slips, pre-retirement, you will see a heading: 'N.I. Contributions, and for every pound deducted your employer paid in two.
I'm not knocking the NHS, goodness knows I have had more than my share from it, it's just that it's not free.
On another thread our American friends have explained that when everyone puts into the pot for a service they might, or might not, need, that's socialism, something that the majority abhor. So they continue to pay absurd rates of insurance for their health care, so that they are free of ideology.


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## PamfromTx

No, I would not leave the United States.


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## Lavinia

charry said:


> yes i would move to another country....but not for cheap health care.......For the SUNSHINE


What is stopping you?


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## charry

Lavinia said:


> What is stopping you?


What is stopping me Lavinia ?

is my husband had a stroke 10 yrs ago, and is paralysed, so I’ve been his  shadow carer ever since ,
we barely go outside the door now, so moving abroad to the sunshine is out of the question now I’m. Afraid !,!


----------



## hollydolly

horseless carriage said:


> Free, at the point of delivery, yes. But if you look at one of your pay slips, pre-retirement, you will see a heading: 'N.I. Contributions, and for every pound deducted your employer paid in two.
> I'm not knocking the NHS, goodness knows I have had more than my share from it, it's just that it's not free.
> On another thread our American friends have explained that when everyone puts into the pot for a service they might, or might not, need, that's socialism, something that the majority abhor. So they continue to pay absurd rates of insurance for their health care, so that they are free of ideology.


LOL..are you serious ?.. do you think that for the last 50 years I didn't know I was paying NI ? ..When I say free, I just presume everyone knows that it means free at the point of service..that we don't pay out of pocket or get a bill for it.. ( the NHS).. However, I _do_ sometimes get a bill because _sometimes_ I pay Privately...


----------



## Purwell

I certainly would not have been able to afford the treatment that I have received over the last two years without our NHS.


----------



## horseless carriage

hollydolly said:


> LOL..are you serious ?.. do you think that for the last 50 years I didn't know I was paying NI ? . When I say free, I just presume everyone knows that it means free at the point of service..that we don't pay out of pocket or get a bill for it.. ( the NHS).. However, I _do_ sometimes get a bill because _sometimes_ I pay Privately...


Ouch, I touched a raw nerve there Holly, my previous reply was to a wider audience. Look at John's post above mine, he pays $800 a month for healthcare insurance, that's about two pounds fifty short of £600. If you were on a salary of £40K you would only pay £400 a month N.I. Of course your employer would contribute £800 making the total £1200, but N.I. also pays statutory sick pay and state pension.


----------



## hollydolly

horseless carriage said:


> Ouch, I touched a raw nerve there Holly, *my previous reply was to a wider audience.* Look at John's post above mine, he pays $800 a month for healthcare insurance, that's about two pounds fifty short of £600. If you were on a salary of £40K you would only pay £400 a month N.I. Of course your employer would contribute £800 making the total £1200, but N.I. also pays statutory sick pay and state pension.


yes but you quoted _me _HC...


----------



## Geezer Garage

I consider myself a world citizen, and though I love the USA, and wouldn't move for health care. I definitely think we should have a one payer system, and put some real controls on the drug, and medical care pricing. I could see moving to another country if the political atmosphere gets any weirder than it already is. Mike


----------



## mellowyellow

Nearly *53 per cent* of all Australians have private health insurance but there is evidence that it's becoming less and less affordable as the gap costs continue to rise. This is despite the availability of Medicare which is free to anyone needing an operation.  Take a hip replacement for example  - if privately covered, you can choose your own surgeon and you will stay in a comfortable single room in pleasant surroundings.  The Medicare option is to go on a waiting list at a public hospital where you will be in a shared ward with no say in who your surgeon will be.


----------



## Alligatorob

Our Medicare (US) isn't too bad, so probably now.  And as others have said I would have higher priorities.  But if I do move warm would be at the top of the list!


charry said:


> moving abroad to the sunshine is out of the question now


If you had no obstacles where would you go?


----------



## Della

Yes, I've considered it.  My son has had a chronic health condition since he was 20 years old that will last until he dies of old age.  His medications cost about $1400 per month plus he has to go to the doctor every few months, so there's that bill.  Until recently he couldn't get any insurance because he had a "pre-existing condition."  Now he has insurance through his job which is great, but without that job he'd be back to paying the full price, every month.

The British system is wonderful, we shouldn't kid ourselves with sour grapes about taxes paying for it.  When we lived there (for the US Air Force) our neighbors three sons all fell ill with a rare inherited condition caused by the misfortune of both parents carrying the same recessive gene.  It was  devastating for them all to know their teenage boys would deteriorate over the next ten to twenty years until death.  They were going to need extensive care plus things like wheelchairs and medical beds.  I was so grateful on their behalf that at least they didn't have to worry about cost.


----------



## charry

Alligatorob said:


> Our Medicare (US) isn't too bad, so probably now.  And as others have said I would have higher priorities.  But if I do move warm would be at the top of the list!
> 
> If you had no obstacles where would you go?


Greece Alli……we had a home there ,  but had to sell it ….


----------



## Lavinia

charry said:


> What is stopping me Lavinia ?
> 
> is my husband had a stroke 10 yrs ago, and is paralysed, so I’ve been his  shadow carer ever since ,
> we barely go outside the door now, so moving abroad to the sunshine is out of the question now I’m. Afraid !,!


Sorry to hear that.


----------



## charry

Lavinia said:


> Sorry to hear that.


Thankyou  Lavinia


----------



## Purwell

horseless carriage said:


> Ouch, I touched a raw nerve there Holly, my previous reply was to a wider audience. Look at John's post above mine, he pays $800 a month for healthcare insurance, that's about two pounds fifty short of £600. If you were on a salary of £40K you would only pay £400 a month N.I. Of course your employer would contribute £800 making the total £1200, but N.I. also pays statutory sick pay and state pension.


When quoting prices of private insurance against our National Insurance, you must take into account that we still get free treatment from the NHS if we are unemployed or have a prolonged illness.


----------



## horseless carriage

Purwell said:


> When quoting prices of private insurance against our National Insurance, you must take into account that we still get free treatment from the NHS if we are unemployed or have a prolonged illness.


Quite so, but it seems that I might have gone off on a tangent, so best I say no more on this particular subject.


----------



## Lewkat

Nope.


----------



## hollydolly

mellowyellow said:


> Nearly *53 per cent* of all Australians have private health insurance but there is evidence that it's becoming less and less affordable as the gap costs continue to rise. This is despite the availability of Medicare which is free to anyone needing an operation.  Take a hip replacement for example  - if privately covered, you can choose your own surgeon and you will stay in a comfortable single room in pleasant surroundings.  The Medicare option is to go on a waiting list at a public hospital where you will be in a shared ward with no say in who your surgeon will be.


sounds pretty much like our system here... most people have NHS cover which is what we pay for out of our salaries, or not.. even if people have never worked and paid into the system they get the same medical cover on the NHS as those of us who have paid.. all our lives, and so it should be tbf, but the drawback is that we're extremely short of hospitals and Doctors, and so waiting lists are very long in many parts of the Uk for urgent operations.. and care... .. but also we have 'Private' medical care which we can either sign up to a Medical Insurance company like Bupa and pay into that every month, ( which I have through my husbands' company ,  but it has an annual price cap)  and so when operations are needed or urgent care where there's a long NHS waiting list, we can pay for our care and get seen to faster.. or we can pay out of pocket literally for one off procedures, like MRI's., and operations and procedures which aren't as expensive as others  etc...


----------



## Knight

Move to another country implies that permanent residency is the goal to take advantage of lower cost health care.  

Going to Mexico was mentioned. Not easy.

To apply for and be granted a permanent resident visa, the applicants must: have certain close family connections in Mexico, or. apply for retirement status and prove they have sufficient monthly income (or substantial assets) to support themselves, or. have 4 consecutive years of regular status as Temporary Resident, ...

But if the intent of the op was to schedule a surgery that is different.
1. Research into to where to get & be assured that you would get quality care would be 1st. 
2.Cost to have done whatever the surgery was for. 
3.Recovery time. 
4.The cost to stay until cleared to travel. 
5.Cost to travel going to & returning. 

The example in post 1 was 10k vs. 400. Considering the  requirements to move to anywhere for residency and/or the aim is to go somewhere to get cheaper surgery it might not be as cost effective as hoped for. 

My short answer is no.


----------



## mellowyellow

hollydolly said:


> sounds pretty much like our system here... most people have NHS cover which is what we pay for out of our salaries, or not.. even if people have never worked and paid into the system they get the same medical cover on the NHS as those of us who have paid.. all our lives, and so it should be tbf, but the drawback is that we're extremely short of hospitals and Doctors, and so waiting lists are very long in many parts of the Uk for urgent operations.. and care... .. but also we have 'Private' medical care which we can either sign up to a Medical Insurance company like Bupa and pay into that every month, ( which I have through my husbands' company ,  but it has an annual price cap)  and so when operations are needed or urgent care where there's a long NHS waiting list, we can pay for our care and get seen to faster.. or we can pay out of pocket literally for one off procedures, like MRI's., and operations and procedures which aren't as expensive as others  etc...


Yes it does sound similar Dolly


----------



## Packerjohn

charry said:


> Well Said Holly....I totally Agree.....


Yes, Holly, well put.  I have spent 2 winters down in Texas and found out that the people who really hate Canadian and probably British health insurance are the people who have been in the military and have good coverage. 

The Canadian system where I live is not perfect but everyone is taken care by the health system, the rich and the poor and everyone else.  Unlike the US no one needs to sell their home to pay for major health care if they are not insured. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/04/health/us-health-care-rankings/index.html


----------



## Packerjohn

hollydolly said:


> *Well we get our health care FREE so there is nowhere cheaper..*


It is not free.  Like in Canada, it is paid for by taxes.  I like the system because everyone is taken care off; whether rich or poor.   I never heard of anyone having to sell a home here to pay for an operation.


----------



## hollydolly

Packerjohn said:


> It is not free.  Like in Canada, it is paid for by taxes.  I like the system because everyone is taken care off; whether rich or poor.   I never heard of anyone having to sell a home here to pay for an operation.


It's free at point of service, we don't get bills after  or asked for proof of insurance before we get treatment.... see my post further back..


----------



## Devi

I like Medicare a whole lot. Takes care of almost anything I'd need (though I'm not particularly sickly; there is that) and there's pretty much no waiting.


----------



## JimBob1952

Knight said:


> Move to another country implies that permanent residency is the goal to take advantage of lower cost health care.
> 
> Going to Mexico was mentioned. Not easy.
> 
> To apply for and be granted a permanent resident visa, the applicants must: have certain close family connections in Mexico, or. apply for retirement status and prove they have sufficient monthly income (or substantial assets) to support themselves, or. have 4 consecutive years of regular status as Temporary Resident, ...
> 
> But if the intent of the op was to schedule a surgery that is different.
> 1. Research into to where to get & be assured that you would get quality care would be 1st.
> 2.Cost to have done whatever the surgery was for.
> 3.Recovery time.
> 4.The cost to stay until cleared to travel.
> 5.Cost to travel going to & returning.
> 
> The example in post 1 was 10k vs. 400. Considering the  requirements to move to anywhere for residency and/or the aim is to go somewhere to get cheaper surgery it might not be as cost effective as hoped for.
> 
> My short answer is no.





Devi said:


> I like Medicare a whole lot. Takes care of almost anything I'd need (though I'm not particularly sickly; there is that) and there's pretty much no waiting.



I feel the same way about Medicare.  I thought Obamacare was supposed to take care of the uninsured problem but I guess it didn't work out that way.


----------



## Nathan

Robert59 said:


> Would you move to another Country for cheap health care?


No, I think that the whole cost of relocation would wipe out any savings on health care. Not to mention having to adapt to a foreign location and culture.   I might travel abroad for a specific treatment if it wasn't available in the U.S.; hopefully that will never be necessary.


----------



## hollydolly

Nathan said:


> No, I think that the whole cost of relocation would wipe out any savings on health care. Not to mention having to adapt to a foreign location and culture.   I might travel abroad for a specific treatment if it wasn't available in the U.S.; hopefully that will never be necessary.


you could come here Nathan,_ we're _not foreign...


----------



## Nathan

hollydolly said:


> you could come here Nathan,_ we're _not foreign...


Yes, according to FamilyTreeDNA 53% of me is from England, Wales & Scotland.



Oddly, even-though my maternal g.grandmother is Irish FTDNA only shows me as having <2% Irish ancestry.


----------



## hollydolly

Nathan said:


> Yes, according to FamilyTreeDNA 53% of me is from England, Wales & Scotland.
> 
> View attachment 205932
> 
> Oddly, even-though my maternal g.grandmother is Irish FTDNA only shows me as having <2% Irish ancestry.


wow !..must have been watered down very well by ancestors from other nations...


----------



## JustBonee

No ...   would never chance moving to another country  at  the thought of cheaper anything.   
Everything comes at a cost.


----------



## Nathan

hollydolly said:


> wow !..must have been watered down very well by ancestors from other nations...


..thing is, I've found her lineage well documented back to the 1600s.


----------



## katlupe

Nope, I would never leave my country.


----------



## hollydolly

Nathan said:


> ..thing is, I've found her lineage well documented back to the 1600s.


yes I meant that other family members..perhaps peternal.. and also other nationalities who may have married into the maternal side since your Irish grandmother..may have been so far removed from Irish that it lessened the strength of the DNA


----------



## Nathan

hollydolly said:


> yes I meant that other family members..perhaps peternal.. and also other nationalities who may have married into the maternal side since your Irish grandmother..may have been so far removed from Irish that it lessened the strength of the DNA


I suppose that may have been the case.   Here in the "New World" immigrants tended to live in a close community, tended to do business, go to church and marry within their own group.  Of course there are exceptions, as my Irish g.grandmother  _did_ marry my g.grandfather, who was Swiss-German.


----------



## hollydolly

Nathan said:


> I suppose that may have been the case.   Here in the "New World" immigrants tended to live in a close community, tended to do business, go to church and marry within their own group.  Of course there are exceptions, as my Irish g.grandmother  _did_ marry my g.grandfather, who was Swiss-German.


there you are you see.. straight away we've got 2 separate nationalities into the mix, before we even go further down the ancestral line...


----------



## Pinky

I would move to another country if medical costs were bleeding me dry. Fortunately, we have a good system in Canada. However, if I lived where medical costs were exorbitant - my answer is "yes".


----------



## Nathan

hollydolly said:


> there you are you see.. straight away we've got 2 separate nationalities into the mix, before we even go further down the ancestral line...


What's even more of mystery is that there's no[I haven't yet found any] genealogical data on these markers:



Edit:  I would love to have a genealogical workup of my ancestry like they do on Finding Your Roots...I'm sure that would be quite pricey.


----------



## ElCastor

hollydolly said:


> *Well we get our health care FREE so there is nowhere cheaper..*


Good! But you do pay taxes don't you? An Australian poster in another retirement forum got it for free too, and hated it. Didn't like the quality of "free", so he wanted to supplement out of his own pocket, but then he had to pay 100%, and that really annoyed him. It's also "free" in Canada, but they have an issue of wait times. A famous Canadian politician flew down to California for breast cancer surgery which caused a big stink. Last I heard, France seemed to have a good system. You Brits (and the rest of the world) have a big advantage over us -- Loser Pays, AKA the English Rule. Here if you are a doctor and are sued but win, you still have to pay your own attorney's fees -- which can be enormous. Thus US doctors all must have very expensive medical malpractice insurance. In the UK and elsewhere, if you sue someone and lose, you pay their attorneys fees. The result of the English Rule -- think twice, maybe thrice, before suing someone!

"The AMA report shows that obstetricians can expect to pay around $150,000 in annual premiums for malpractice insurance. If your specialty requires fewer actual procedures, you can likely get by in the neighborhood of $30,000 to $50,000. Some low-risk specialties in low-risk areas of the country will pay less than $10,000 a year for coverage."
https://www.leveragerx.com/blog/medical-malpractice-insurance-cost/.

Needless to say doctors don't pay those premiums -- their patients do. Another result is that the US has the greatest number of lawyers per capita in the world. Grrrrr.


----------



## hollydolly

Does anyone actually read the posts before they comment ^^^^...several times I've replied that we pay for our medical care from our salaries...


----------



## ElCastor

hollydolly said:


> Does anyone actually read the posts before they comment ^^^^...several times I've replied that we pay for our medical care from our salaries...


Salary, tax bill, or pocket it still isn't free -- is it?


----------



## hollydolly

ElCastor said:


> Salary, tax bill, or pocket it still isn't free -- is it?


how many times have I said this already ?... you;re still not reading these posts are you ?


----------



## ElCastor

hollydolly said:


> how many times have I said this already ?... you;re still not reading these posts are you ?


OK, you got me. Sorry. You got me there. In all  honesty I was just looking for an opportunity to get in a comment about our lack of an English Rule -- my pet peeve.


----------



## oldpop

No way. I prefer to stay right where I am.


----------



## dseag2

charry said:


> What is stopping me Lavinia ?
> 
> is my husband had a stroke 10 yrs ago, and is paralysed, so I’ve been his  shadow carer ever since ,
> we barely go outside the door now, so moving abroad to the sunshine is out of the question now I’m. Afraid !,!


I'm so sorry, @charry.  Hugs to you.


----------



## Linda

I could but I won't.  I'm a USA girl for sure.


----------



## Ruthanne

No.  I would not.  I get Medicaid and for free for whatever I need, mostly.  There are things it doesn't pay for but I assume it's the same with any insurance.


----------



## StarSong

Short of a zombie apocalypse limited to the US or a civil war, I can't imagine moving to another country at this stage of my life, especially since my children and friends are all here.  Canada isn't likely to be accepting senior citizen immigrants these days and Mexico doesn't interest me.   

While I don't know anyone who's moved for medical care, I do know plenty of people who've gone to Mexico, Costa Rica and Panama for a few days to get dental care - MUCH less expensive than the US.


----------



## AprilSun

No. It wouldn't be worth it to leave my family and friends and go and be among a bunch of strangers just to get cheaper health care. No thanks.


----------



## garyt1957

hollydolly said:


> *Well we get our health care FREE so there is nowhere cheaper..*


It's far from free, check your taxes. Where do you think the money comes from?


----------



## Della

[Poor Holly, it will never end.]

Everyone who says they will never move just to get cheaper health care are forgetting that some people will die if they don't get their medicine and they wouldn't be able to get it at all if they had to pay uninsured U.S. prices.

Look at all the homeless, mentally ill people we have.  Living on the streets in varying states of paranoia and psychosis.  Their medication, if they even had prescription, costs thousands a month.

In 1989, working as a bank teller, I had to pay $10,000 out of pocket for dental care.  When the doctor told me how much, I said "That's my annual salary!"  He said,  "Well you can pay half now and rest next month."  Fortunately I had been saving for my son's college and had it in savings, I was just praying I would live to earn it back.

Go ahead raise my taxes!  No one should have to die because they can't afford decent care.  I've paid taxes that go toward wars I'm against and many other things less important.


----------



## hollydolly




----------



## Pinky

The American engineers that came over to work here in Toronto and other Canadian cities, were always very pleased with the health care they received through our system. Some even migrated.


----------



## hollydolly

Pinky said:


> The American engineers that came over to work here in Toronto and other Canadian cities, were always very pleased with the health care they received through our system. Some even migrated.


it's odd isn't it..when it comes to Americans' who get irritated by social care, they always..ALWAYS attack the NHS.. I never see the same attack on the Canadian social care system..


----------



## Pinky

hollydolly said:


> it's odd isn't it..when it comes to Americans' who get irritated by social care, they always..ALWAYS attack the NHS.. I never see the same attack on the Canadian social care system..


Yet, it's run on similar principles. Oh, I've seen some opposition to our health care system, Hols.


----------



## StarSong

hollydolly said:


> it's odd isn't it..when it comes to Americans' who get irritated by social care, they always..ALWAYS attack the NHS.. I never see the same attack on the Canadian social care system..





Pinky said:


> Yet, it's run on similar principles. Oh, I've seen some opposition to our health care system, Hols.


I've heard plenty of Americans attack the Canadian health care system.  However, those attacks are often rebuked by the many Americans whose Canadian friends and family are happy with their health care.  One of my sisters lives in Canada so when I hear Americans spout BS about their health care system, with some authority I can rebuff them with knowledge of my family's positive experiences.

Americans with personal relationships with Brits are far rarer, making that health care system a softer target that's less likely to be countered with first or second hand experience.


----------



## hollydolly

StarSong said:


> I've heard plenty of Americans attack the Canadian health care system.  However, those attacks are often rebuked by the many Americans whose Canadian friends and family are happy with their health care.  One of my sisters lives in Canada so when I hear Americans spout BS about their health care system, with some authority I can rebuff them with knowledge of my family's positive experiences.
> 
> Americans with personal relationships with Brits are far rarer, making that health care system a softer target that's less likely to be countered with first or second hand experience.


I actually meant the attacks on here .. it's always attacking the British NHS... not Canadian, nor Australian.. 

I'm sure you probably do hear a lot of complaining or praising in the US and Canada ooutside of this forum, it just always seems to be the Uk that gets hammered on here from people..


----------



## Alligatorob

hollydolly said:


> Does anyone actually read the posts before they comment ^^^^


Probably guilty of not, sometimes.


----------



## charry

dseag2 said:


> I'm so sorry, @charry.  Hugs to you.


Thankyou daeag2


----------



## StarSong

hollydolly said:


> I actually meant the attacks on here .. it's always attacking the British NHS... not Canadian, nor Australian..
> 
> I'm sure you probably do hear a lot of complaining or praising in the US and Canada ooutside of this forum, it just always seems to be the Uk that gets hammered on here from people..


Probably followed the same logic as I wrote above.  Attack the British NHS because Americans are slightly familiar with it.  Attack Canada's and too many would think about the Canadians we know who are happy with it.  Australia is too remote - most Americans know almost nothing about their healthcare system so the fearmongering would be less effective. 

The point of this piece by FOX News was to attack Bernie Sanders and his push for national health care.


----------



## hollydolly

StarSong said:


> Probably followed the same logic as I wrote above.  Attack the British NHS because Americans are slightly familiar with it.  Attack Canada's and too many would think about the Canadians we know who are happy with it.  Australia is too remote - most Americans know almost nothing about their healthcare system so the fearmongering would be less effective.
> 
> The point of this piece by FOX News was to attack Bernie Sanders and his push for national health care.


yes I'm certain you're correct as always SS..


----------



## hollydolly

Alligatorob said:


> Probably guilty of not, sometimes.


it gets tedious when one has to give the same answer over and over because people aren't intelligent enough to read the posts they want to argue about...


----------



## Pinky

I was extremely happy with the excellent health care I received in Australia. It was modeled after Canada's health care system. One less thing to have to be concerned about, as far as differences went.


----------



## Chris P Bacon

Maybe moving to another country for cheaper health care was the thing that Meat Loaf wouldn't do for love?


----------



## StarSong

Chris P Bacon said:


> Maybe moving to another country for cheaper health care was the thing that Meat Loaf wouldn't do for love?


In personal interviews he claimed his freedom from "being controlled" by refusing to bow to mandates or be vaccinated.  
Said, "if I die, I die." 
Sadly prophetic.


----------



## Packerjohn

Nathan said:


> No, I think that the whole cost of relocation would wipe out any savings on health care. Not to mention having to adapt to a foreign location and culture.   I might travel abroad for a specific treatment if it wasn't available in the U.S.; hopefully that will never be necessary.


When I was younger I also thought of relocating to some place like Mexico.  After spending 2 winters in Mexico, I am glad I did not make the move.  Too much noise; too many dogs barking all the time and then there is the Spanish language.  It works for many people.  There are many  expats in Lake Chapala and around Merida, etc. but I guess it wasn't for me.  Guess I'm gonna die here in Canada; cold winters and all.


----------



## Michael Z

No, but I sure wish it were cheaper! I am not a big-government type, but it seems if anything should be free, it should be health care. 

But, money is not everything so I will pay and stay.


----------



## Gardenlover

Being self-employed (Gigolo) I can say that the health care in the US needs to be fixed. However, it would take more than health care to make me move to another country, they'd also have to have nude beaches.


----------



## fancicoffee13

applecruncher said:


> No.
> I would not move to another country for any reason.
> As far as cheap/free health care or anything else, you (usually) get what you pay for.


You bet!


----------



## Gardenlover

applecruncher said:


> No.
> I would not move to another country for any reason.
> As far as cheap/free health care or anything else, you (usually) get what you pay for.


That is why I like the barter system.


----------



## RobinWren

Until last year or maybe this year here in BC we paid for healthcare, and now I pay for extended health benefits though each year it covers less.


----------



## Chris P Bacon

Might be better to move to a healthier country. Cost of healthcare might not matter so much then.


----------



## john19485

horseless carriage said:


> Ouch, I touched a raw nerve there Holly, my previous reply was to a wider audience. Look at John's post above mine, he pays $800 a month for healthcare insurance, that's about two pounds fifty short of £600. If you were on a salary of £40K you would only pay £400 a month N.I. Of course your employer would contribute £800 making the total £1200, but N.I. also pays statutory sick pay and state pension.



to make this a little clearer , I have Medicare Part A and B, Federal Blue Cross Blue Shield, then also a dental plan,also have the Military Plan which is free,  all that comes to about 800. dollars, I also have a good retirement , have a little bit in stocks, we are invited to go places, people pay  for sometimes, so we don't spend that much money.


----------



## Packerjohn

Chris P Bacon said:


> Might be better to move to a healthier country. Cost of healthcare might not matter so much then.
> View attachment 207953


Interesting!  I see that Canada, West Europe, Australia and New Zealand are pretty healthy places to live and I agree.  I also agree that Democratic Republic of the Congo and Mali are the most unhealthy places to live.  If some disease doesn't kill you there then some military rebel group will put a bullet into you for free.  Think I'll stay in the great white frozen north (Canada).


----------



## DaveA

Move out of the country ???   I haven't found anything, yet, to move me out of the house that I was born in back in 1933.


----------



## Georgiagranny

I wouldn't move to another country, but I would certainly consider medical tourism if I needed a procedure that would bankrupt me in the US.


----------



## jimintoronto

hollydolly said:


> *Well we get our health care FREE so there is nowhere cheaper..*


I hate to be the one to tell you this BUT........every UK tax payer DOES contribute to the operation of the NHS, through their taxes, plus every time you pay a VAT amount, guess where a part of the money goes ? To fund the NHS. Surely you already know this ? Just because you don't get a invoice from your GP or the hospital does not mean you aren't paying towards the costs. I live in Canada and our system is just about identical to the system in your country, so I do know how it works over there. JimB.


----------



## hollydolly

jimintoronto said:


> I hate to be the one to tell you this BUT........every UK tax payer DOES contribute to the operation of the NHS, through their taxes, plus every time you pay a VAT amount, guess where a part of the money goes ? To fund the NHS. Surely you already know this ? Just because you don't get a invoice from your GP or the hospital does not mean you aren't paying towards the costs. I live in Canada and our system is just about identical to the system in your country, so I do know how it works over there. JimB.


OFGS...you really think I don't know  all working people pay for it in their taxes....it's FREE *at source*... No-one has to wait in this country for someone to sign off insurance documents while they lay dying and waiting to be helped..and that includes every single person who has never worked a day in their life nor paid into the system..to them it ABSOLUTELY FREE>.. ..so please, you don't have to HATE to tell me anything I don't already know and have been paying for , for 50 years..


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## jimintoronto

hollydolly said:


> OFGS...you really think I don't know  all working people pay for it in their taxes....it's FREE *at source*... No-one has to wait in this country for someone to sign off insurance documents while they lay dying and waiting to be helped..and that includes every single person who has never worked a day in their life nor paid into the system..to them it ABSOLUTELY FREE>.. ..so please, you don't have to HATE to tell me anything I don't already know and have been paying for , for 50 years..


Wow, back off the harshness, please. JimB,


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## hollydolly

jimintoronto said:


> Wow, back off the harshness, please. JimB,


you started it..just joined and immediately went on the attack of an established member... YOU back off!!...


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## Lewkat

DaveA said:


> Move out of the country ???   I haven't found anything, yet, to move me out of the house that I was born in back in 1933.


So was I and although I am widely traveled, I'd never move to another country.  We have too many other perks as Americans to move just for free health care.  Further, no reputable hospital in this country of ours will dare deny anyone who needs it treatment regardless of their financial status.  That is the law in this nation.  But, it is one of the reasons our health care is so expensive.


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## mrstime

We get our medical care free as well, and before you say we pay more in taxes I have to stop you right there. No, our taxes are not higher than yours. It is just your countries priorities are different from ours. Ours chooses to put our taxes into medical care over some other things. The AMA would also have you believe that our wait times kill people. I have never had to wait more than a couple of hours in the ER, and believe me if the problem is life-threatening one doesn't wait at all (I know that for a fact as well). I understand why the AMA tells you all those crazy things, you might demand cheaper care, and neither the doctors nor the for-profit hospitals want that.


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## Leann

No, I don't think I'd move to another country for heath care.


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## jimintoronto

mrstime said:


> We get our medical care free as well, and before you say we pay more in taxes I have to stop you right there. No, our taxes are not higher than yours. It is just your countries priorities are different from ours. Ours chooses to put our taxes into medical care over some other things. The AMA would also have you believe that our wait times kill people. I have never had to wait more than a couple of hours in the ER, and believe me if the problem is life-threatening one doesn't wait at all (I know that for a fact as well). I understand why the AMA tells you all those crazy things, you might demand cheaper care, and neither the doctors nor the for-profit hospitals want that.


I don't think the miss information comes from the American Medical Association. The real source is the private medical insurance groups. They  have a really big  vested interest in keeping Americans in the dark about how a single payer health care system works here in Canada. JimB.


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## StarSong

jimintoronto said:


> I hate to be the one to tell you this BUT........every UK tax payer DOES contribute to the operation of the NHS, through their taxes, plus every time you pay a VAT amount, guess where a part of the money goes ? To fund the NHS. Surely you already know this ? Just because you don't get a invoice from your GP or the hospital does not mean you aren't paying towards the costs. I live in Canada and our system is just about identical to the system in your country, so I do know how it works over there. JimB.


This was already covered in detail in posts #61 & #81 on this very thread and by @hollydolly herself.   

Nobody over the age of 16 who has an IQ above 80 believes government administered benefits are "free." Taxpayers pay the tab through one avenue or another.


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## mrstime

jimintoronto said:


> I don't think the miss information comes from the American Medical Association. The real source is the private medical insurance groups. They  have a really big  vested interest in keeping Americans in the dark about how a single payer health care system works here in Canada. JimB.


You may be correct, but everybody in the medical profession in the US has their fingers in everyones pockets!


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## hollydolly

StarSong said:


> This was already covered in detail in posts #61 & #81 on this very thread and by @hollydolly herself.
> 
> Nobody over the age of 16 who has an IQ above 80 believes government administered benefits are "free." Taxpayers pay the tab through one avenue or another.


Thanks SS...I do get tired of people ..and there's a few, who spout opinions before reading a thread through first...


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## garyt1957

mrstime said:


> We get our medical care free as well, and before you say we pay more in taxes I have to stop you right there. No, our taxes are not higher than yours. It is just your countries priorities are different from ours. Ours chooses to put our taxes into medical care over some other things. The AMA would also have you believe that our wait times kill people. I have never had to wait more than a couple of hours in the ER, and believe me if the problem is life-threatening one doesn't wait at all (I know that for a fact as well). I understand why the AMA tells you all those crazy things, you might demand cheaper care, and neither the doctors nor the for-profit hospitals want that.





mrstime said:


> We get our medical care free as well, and before you say we pay more in taxes I have to stop you right there. No, our taxes are not higher than yours. It is just your countries priorities are different from ours. Ours chooses to put our taxes into medical care over some other things.


Yep, while you get to put money into Healthcare Americans get to be the security force for the free world. While countries like Canada and other NATO countries won't even spend their agreed upon 2% of gdp for defense, the US gets to foot the bill. It's one of (maybe the only thing) Trump got right,  making other countries foot their share of the cost of defending the free world.


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## mrstime

garyt1957 said:


> Yep, while you get to put money into Healthcare Americans get to be the security force for the free world. While countries like Canada and other NATO countries won't even spend their agreed upon 2% of gdp for defense, the US gets to foot the bill. It's one of (maybe the only thing) Trump got right,  making other countries foot their share of the cost of defending the free world.


You are one of those who try to claim the US protects us , very frankly, the US is the only country we should fear.


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## garyt1957

mrstime said:


> You are one of those who try to claim the US protects us , very frankly, the US is the only country we should fear.


That's quite ridiculous,  but whatever.


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## StarSong

mrstime said:


> You are one of those who try to claim the US protects us , very frankly, the US is the only country we should fear.


Fear in what way?


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## AnnieA

mrstime said:


> You are one of those who try to claim the US protects us , very frankly, the US is the only country we should fear.


Only?


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## mrstime

AnnieA said:


> Only?


Yes only. Other countries actually respect Canada


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## mrstime

StarSong said:


> Fear in what way?


Well, we have a lot of natural resources. Including oil, natural gas , metals, and lumber. You never know when some American leader (not Biden) might cast his or her eyes on those things and decide he or she wanted it.


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## garyt1957

mrstime said:


> Well, we have a lot of natural resources. Including oil, natural gas , metals, and lumber. You never know when some American leader (not Biden) might cast his or her eyes on those things and decide he or she wanted it.


Ridiculous. But without the US , Russia might decide to take it


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## StarSong

mrstime said:


> Well, we have a lot of natural resources. Including oil, natural gas , metals, and lumber. You never know when some American leader (not Biden) might cast his or her eyes on those things and decide he or she wanted it.


You don't know Americans very well if you think for a moment that the American public, government, or military would want or support an invasion of Canada.  To be honest, worrying about monsters hiding under your bed would be a more well-placed fear.


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## jimintoronto

garyt1957 said:


> Ridiculous. But without the US , Russia might decide to take it


I think the Russians are busy right now, having their asses handed to them by the Ukrainians day after day. The hand held anti tank weapon has leveled the battle ground , and  the much  feared Russian army is being shown to be a army who have little interest in fighting. When a entire armored unit hands over their undamaged tanks and surrenders , the Russian army's morale is lower that a whale's belly button. JimB.


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## Timewise 60+

mrstime...sorry you think the way you do about America!  You apparently listen to your government owned media a bit too much.  I am in my 70's and I have visited Canada multiple times.  I have never met a Canadian I did not like, and I know our country would never be a threat to Canada, unless your government becomes a communist country, and you threaten us.  I am sure you feel the same, if we turn to the dark side and become a threat, you will come after us.... 

If we need your oil, lumber, etc., we will simply buy it from you!  That is the American way.


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## ElCastor

hollydolly said:


> *Well we get our health care FREE so there is nowhere cheaper..*


I don't pretend to be knowledgeable about UK healthcare, but my impression is that it has its shortcomings -- As in ...

"Surgery and cancer care in England will have long delays for years – report"
https://www.theguardian.com/society...ngland-will-have-long-delays-for-years-report

"Danielle Watts lives in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk and has, as she puts it, been doing her own dentistry - removing 11 of her own teeth.
"There's been no help out there," she says. "My dentist shut six years ago and me and my children were left with nowhere to go."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-58792323


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## garyt1957

jimintoronto said:


> I think the Russians are busy right now, having their asses handed to them by the Ukrainians day after day. The hand held anti tank weapon has leveled the battle ground , and  the much  feared Russian army is being shown to be a army who have little interest in fighting. When a entire armored unit hands over their undamaged tanks and surrenders , the Russian army's morale is lower that a whale's belly button. JimB.


Right now, sure. But what about many years ago when it was still the Soviet Union? Canada wouldn't put up as big a fight as Ukraine


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## Tish

We are pretty good here, our health care is free and our PBS covers most medications,
We also have a safety net threshold of $326.40 after you have reached it your scripts are free.


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## mrstime

garyt1957 said:


> Ridiculous. But without the US , Russia might decide to take it


Russia would face the same obstacles they are facing now in Ukraine. The US would also face them but have such a huge military that we probably would be overrun.


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## mrstime

garyt1957 said:


> Right now, sure. But what about many years ago when it was still the Soviet Union? Canada wouldn't put up as big a fight as Ukraine


Oh yes we would, our military is well respected and most of us would also stay and fight.


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## StarSong

mrstime said:


> Russia would face the same obstacles they are facing now in Ukraine. The US would also face them but have such a huge military that we probably would be overrun.


I have no idea why you think Canada has reason to fear the US military might invade.  I'm completely stumped.  If you can cite any credible sources suggesting that likelihood  - or even remote possibility - I'd be sincerely interested in reading them.


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## Shalimar

Timewise 60+ said:


> mrstime...sorry you think the way you do about America!  You apparently listen to your government owned media a bit too much.  I am in my 70's and I have visited Canada multiple times.  I have never met a Canadian I did not like, and I know our country would never be a threat to Canada, unless your government becomes a communist country, and you threaten us.  I am sure you feel the same, if we turn to the dark side and become a threat, you will come after us....
> 
> If we need your oil, lumber, etc., we will simply buy it from you!  That is the American way.


Excuse me, “gov’t owned media?” We are a democracy.


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