# The Science - autopsies from covid-19 vaccinations



## John cycling (Aug 8, 2021)

Ryan Cole, M.D. - "Covid-19 Vaccines and Autopsy" <--

Scientific Truth - as opposed to vaccination controlled media fear mongering propaganda.

Watch this, and decide for yourself.


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## Ladybj (Aug 8, 2021)

John cycling said:


> Ryan Cole, M.D. - "Covid-19 Vaccines and Autopsy" <--
> 
> Scientific Truth - as opposed to vaccination controlled media fear mongering propaganda.
> 
> Watch this, and decide for yourself.


I normally don't click on links but felt the need to click on that one... sooooo glad I did. WOW!!!!!!!! GREAT INFO.  We need more Doctors like him to speak up and speak out...WOW!!!!  Bottom line "They don't know".  Thank you John for sharing.


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## Don M. (Aug 8, 2021)

Ryan Cole, M.D....another "expert" who is prolonging the spread of this virus, by preaching to the gullible....most likely for his personal financial gain.   

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/s...ess-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/l...ouse/277-28e346f7-dd40-4dfc-9cbe-d8edbf576c34


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

It amazes me that no one has been doing autopsies on patients dying post-vaccine. I just assumed that 10% of them (at the very least) were being autopsied. 25% would be reasonable.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Ryan Cole, M.D....another "expert" who is prolonging the spread of this virus, by preaching to the gullible....most likely for his personal financial gain.
> 
> https://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/s...ess-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/
> 
> https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/l...ouse/277-28e346f7-dd40-4dfc-9cbe-d8edbf576c34


Of course there's an argument. That's fine, the more info the better.


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## Warrigal (Aug 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> It amazes me that no one has been doing autopsies on patients dying post-vaccine. I just assumed that 10% of them (at the very least) were being autopsied. 25% would be reasonable.


In OZ an autopsy is only required for a suspicious death, or if someone dies without having been seen by a doctor for 6 months prior to death. Otherwise all that is required is for a doctor to certify the cause of death. If the doctor is uncertain, then an autopsy is requested.

How many covid patients dying in hospital would be required to be autopsied? How many coroners would want to be dissecting covid infected cases unnecessarily ?


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 8, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Ryan Cole, M.D....another "expert" who is prolonging the spread of this virus, by preaching to the gullible....most likely for his personal financial gain.
> 
> https://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/s...ess-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/
> 
> https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/l...ouse/277-28e346f7-dd40-4dfc-9cbe-d8edbf576c34


Thanks Don!  So many people get sucked into believing this misinformation and conspiracy from online sources.  Many of these 'doctors' who spread these lies are encouraging people not to act responsibly and take the vaccine.

  Social media is a big reason that we're in the sad state with this pandemic that we are.  If people could do some research on their own, they could tell what sources are reputable and which ones are just doing harm.  Good that you posted that information, to remain silent makes the misinformation appear to be more truthful.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> In OZ an autopsy is only required for a suspicious death, or if someone dies without having been seen by a doctor for 6 months prior to death. Otherwise all that is required is for a doctor to certify the cause of death. If the doctor is uncertain, then an autopsy is requested.
> 
> How many covid patients dying in hospital would be required to be autopsied? How many coroners would want to be dissecting covid infected cases unnecessarily ?


Since the covid vaccine is new and technically experimental, I assumed doctors and scientists would want to investigate the cause of ALL post-vaccine deaths. I wouldn't consider any autopsies unnecessary, they would be a tool for understanding and improving the vaccine.


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## Becky1951 (Aug 8, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Ryan Cole, M.D....another "expert" who is prolonging the spread of this virus, by preaching to the gullible....most likely for his personal financial gain.
> 
> https://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/s...ess-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/
> 
> https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/l...ouse/277-28e346f7-dd40-4dfc-9cbe-d8edbf576c34


“no scientific evidence has confirmed that these concerns are real.”

Equally there is no scientific evidence to disprove that those concerns are are _not_ real.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Thanks Don!  So many people get sucked into believing this misinformation and conspiracy from online sources.  Many of these 'doctors' who spread these lies are encouraging people not to act responsibly and take the vaccine.
> 
> Social media is a big reason that we're in the sad state with this pandemic that we are.  If people could do some research on their own, they could tell what sources are reputable and which ones are just doing harm.  Good that you posted that information, *to remain silent makes the misinformation appear to be more truthful*.


And shutting people up or discouraging another point of view or whatever is equally harmful. But it's happening a lot lately.


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## Becky1951 (Aug 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> It amazes me that no one has been doing autopsies on patients dying post-vaccine. I just assumed that 10% of them (at the very least) were being autopsied. 25% would be reasonable.


How any autopsies have we heard of regarding the vaccinated who have died? 1 ? 2 ?.  
All I ever hear is we are investigating.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> How any autopsies have we heard of regarding the vaccinated who have died? 1 ? 2 ?.
> All I ever hear is we are investigating.


According to the video, one. Shocking, imo.


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## Warrigal (Aug 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Since the covid vaccine is new and technically experimental, I assumed doctors and scientists would want to investigate the cause of ALL post-vaccine deaths. I wouldn't consider any autopsies unnecessary, they would be a tool for understanding and improving the vaccine.


I think doctors and scientists are running flat out right now and people don't want to wait any longer than necessary to bury their dead. Besides, you need the permission to perform autopsies that are not mandated by law. 

I don't know the law in US but my dad did have to have an autopsy when he died suddenly from a heart attack. He died at home, there was no doctor present to sign the death certificate and he hadn't seen his doctor for more than six months. Our permission was not required. Coroners are mostly concerned to establish whether there is anything suspicious about the death. If there is, they may call for a coronial enquiry. Then the police may become involved looking for someone to charge with murder, homicide or any other appropriate charge.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> I think doctors and scientists are running flat out right now and people don't want to wait any longer than necessary to bury their dead. Besides, you need the permission to perform autopsies that are not mandated by law.
> 
> I don't know the law in US but my dad did have to have an autopsy when he died suddenly from a heart attack. He died at home, there was no doctor present to sign the death certificate and he hadn't seen his doctor for more than six months. Our permission was not required. Coroners are mostly concerned to establish whether there is anything suspicious about the death. If there is, they may call for a coronial enquiry. Then the police may become involved looking for someone to charge with murder, homicide or any other appropriate charge.


We had to wait a month to bury my mother, whose death was attributed to covid. Doctors and coroners can request special permission to perform investigative autopsies, particularly during a national health emergency.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> And shutting people up or discouraging another point of view or whatever is equally harmful. But it's happening a lot lately.


I'm not shutting anyone up, but with the situation we are in with the hospitals overflowing and Americans dying, I appreciate when falsehoods and misinformation are called out for what they are. 

We have nurses right here on this forum who are fighting constantly, physically, mentally and emotionally drained from taking care of Covid patients in their hospitals and many times being by their sides as they died from the virus. Their loved ones are suffering along with them.

People who exaggerate facts to oppose coronavirus vaccinations, masks, etc., are just promoting the spread of the virus.  The Delta variant has made it all the more serious to get vaccinated and try to curb the spread.  Over 600,000 dead, front line workers exhausted, hospitals full, it's just making a tragedy even worse, IMO.  We'll never get a grip on this virus at the rate we're going.


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## win231 (Aug 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> And shutting people up or discouraging another point of view or whatever is equally harmful. But it's happening a lot lately.


Yes - _"How dare anyone disagree with ME!  There is no reason to disagree 'cuz I know EVERYTHING." _


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## win231 (Aug 8, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> I'm not shutting anyone up, but with the situation we are in with the hospitals overflowing and Americans dying, I appreciate when falsehoods and misinformation are called out for what they are.
> 
> We have nurses right here on this forum who are fighting constantly, physically, mentally and emotionally drained from taking care of Covid patients in their hospitals and many times being by their sides as they died from the virus. Their loved ones are suffering along with them.
> 
> People who exaggerate facts to oppose coronavirus vaccinations, masks, etc., and just promoting the spread of the virus.  The Delta variant has made it all the more serious to get vaccinated and try to curb the spread.  Over 600,000 dead, front line workers exhausted, hospitals full, it's just making a tragedy even worse, IMO.  We'll never get a grip on this virus at the rate we're going.


Speaking of exaggeration, where are them meat trucks to store excess bodies?


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## Warrigal (Aug 8, 2021)

When the refrigerated trucks were lined up outside hospitals because the morgues were full, there was no vaccine available and no-one had any immunity to the novel corona virus. Now there are a number of different vaccines on offer and the major part of the population has been fully or partially immunised. Could that be why the refrigerated trucks are not necessary this time round?


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> I'm not shutting anyone up, but with the situation we are in with the hospitals overflowing and Americans dying, I appreciate when falsehoods and misinformation are called out for what they are.
> 
> We have nurses right here on this forum who are fighting constantly, physically, mentally and emotionally drained from taking care of Covid patients in their hospitals and many times being by their sides as they died from the virus. Their loved ones are suffering along with them.
> 
> People who exaggerate facts to oppose coronavirus vaccinations, masks, etc., are just promoting the spread of the virus.  The Delta variant has made it all the more serious to get vaccinated and try to curb the spread.  Over 600,000 dead, front line workers exhausted, hospitals full, it's just making a tragedy even worse, IMO.  We'll never get a grip on this virus at the rate we're going.


What did Dr. Cory, the guy in the video, exaggerate? What falsehoods did you catch?


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## win231 (Aug 8, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> When the refrigerated trucks were lined up outside hospitals because the morgues were full, there was no vaccine available and no-one had any immunity to the novel corona virus. Now there are a number of different vaccines on offer and the major part of the population has been fully or partially immunised. Could that be why the refrigerated trucks are not necessary this time round?


Nice try, but desperate.  "cuz, you see......(as I posted previously), a day or two after that B.S. report, I took 2 elderly friends to the ER.  No meat trucks, no crowded ER & no patients on gurneys in hallways.  Just several bored doctors standing around chatting.
A few days later, my sister went to the ER for a UTI.  I asked her how long she had to wait to be seen.  She said, "I was expecting a crowded hospital, but there were 2 people in the waiting room & nothing but empty rooms."
I said, "Well, with all those meat trucks in the parking lot, it musta been difficult to find parking."    

But hey......it was that miracle vaccine that didn't exist yet.  The virus _*knew *_it was coming & was frightened.


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 8, 2021)

I've heard about this Dr. Cole a long time ago, I did not watch that video.  This is from one of Don's links about things he says.  I have no interest in hearing this nonsense, there are many others out there just like him.



> In the March 4 video, Cole makes claims suggesting that federal agencies have acted nefariously, as well as claims that undermine vaccines and promise miracle treatments.
> 
> 
> We’ll address his four main claims.
> ...


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## WhatInThe (Aug 8, 2021)

John cycling said:


> Ryan Cole, M.D. - "Covid-19 Vaccines and Autopsy" <--
> 
> Scientific Truth - as opposed to vaccination controlled media fear mongering propaganda.
> 
> Watch this, and decide for yourself.


Lack of autopsies has been a running issue in the US. Especially when one dies in a hospital

https://www.propublica.org/article/without-autopsies-hospitals-bury-their-mistakes

Not being used to or equiped for autopsies on a large scale or regular basis I can see covid autopsies lagging. Researchers or for research are probably the only reason many are being done.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> I've heard about this Dr. Cole a long time ago, I did not watch that video.  This is from one of Don's links about things he says.  I have no interest in hearing this nonsense, there are many others out there just like him.


There isn't one iota of nonsense in that video, SeaBreeze. In essence he is saying we could learn about and improve upon the current vaccine if we did investigative autopsies on those who have died after receiving it. I agree.

I'm quite aware of the smear campaign against Dr. Cole, an anatomic and clinical pathologist trained at the Mayo Clinic, whose personal experiences and fact-based, professional opinions could effect Pfiezer's bottom-line.


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## win231 (Aug 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> There isn't one iota of nonsense in that video, SeaBreeze. In essence he is saying we could learn about and improve upon the current vaccine if we did investigative autopsies on those who have died after receiving it. I agree.
> 
> I'm quite aware of the smear campaign against Dr. Cole, an anatomic and clinical pathologist trained at the Mayo Clinic, whose personal experiences and fact-based, professional opinions could effect Pfiezer's bottom-line.


Actually, any medical professional who says anything negative about the Covid vaccine will affect the manufacturer's bottom line.  And would also likely affect theirs as well.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> Lack of autopsies has been a running issue in the US. Especially when one dies in a hospital
> 
> https://www.propublica.org/article/without-autopsies-hospitals-bury-their-mistakes
> 
> Not being used to or equiped for autopsies on a large scale or regular basis I can see covid autopsies lagging. Researchers or for research are probably the only reason many are being done.


Crime and corpse identity, of course, would be other reasons.

There's no excuse for any lag, imo. It's simply not being done....laziness? Cost vs profit? Just not caring? idk. As far as I know, all medical universities are equipped to perform autopsies, and many states have at least one.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

win231 said:


> Actually, any medical professional who says anything negative about the Covid vaccine will affect the manufacturer's bottom line.  *And would also likely affect theirs as well*.


Through public mud-slinging, if nothing else.
Seems like that's all it takes these days, doesn't it?


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## Murrmurr (Aug 8, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> Lack of autopsies has been a running issue in the US. Especially when one dies in a hospital
> 
> https://www.propublica.org/article/without-autopsies-hospitals-bury-their-mistakes
> 
> Not being used to or equiped for autopsies on a large scale or regular basis I can see covid autopsies lagging. Researchers or for research are probably the only reason many are being done.


Very enlightening article, btw. Angers me, but it's a really good one.


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## Don M. (Aug 9, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Thanks Don!  So many people get sucked into believing this misinformation and conspiracy from online sources.  Many of these 'doctors' who spread these lies are encouraging people not to act responsibly and take the vaccine.
> Social media is a big reason that we're in the sad state with this pandemic that we are.  If people could do some research on their own, they could tell what sources are reputable and which ones are just doing harm.  Good that you posted that information, to remain silent makes the misinformation appear to be more truthful.



This forum is the Best for Seniors, IMO.  Most who visit here are responsible individuals, often looking for advise from others who have experienced some issues.  As such, it is important that we keep this forum free from misleading misinformation posted from extremist web sites, IMO.  Besides, when such misinformation IS posted, it is usually fairly easy to find honest "rebuttal".


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## Pink Biz (Aug 9, 2021)

*Matrix said:

There are opinions in this forum which are based on disinformation, conspiracies, and information from questionable sources. Please research the facts from reputable sites like the CDC before taking anyone's opinion as fact about COVID-19 or related vaccinations.*

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/disclaimer-and-reminder.62672/


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## AnnieA (Aug 9, 2021)

win231 said:


> Speaking of exaggeration, where are them meat trucks to store excess bodies?



You cannot seem to understand that only a very few places in the US got to that extreme.  You have said your local news said your hospital was at that point (no links ever provided to substantiate that assertion),  but the only places I remember seeing needing makeshift morgues were at the beginning of the pandemic in NYC, NOLA and later in the year during El Paso's worst peak.   

It's a thing you really, really like to talk about though which is odd.


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## Becky1951 (Aug 9, 2021)

Don M. said:


> This forum is the Best for Seniors, IMO.  Most who visit here are responsible individuals, often looking for advise from others who have experienced some issues.  As such, it is important that we keep this forum free from misleading misinformation posted from extremist web sites, IMO.  Besides, when such misinformation IS posted, it is usually fairly easy to find honest "rebuttal".


It's up to the individual to decide what information is misleading or not. It's not up to you or others who want to sensor information.


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## Becky1951 (Aug 9, 2021)

Pink Biz said:


> *Matrix said:
> 
> There are opinions in this forum which are based on disinformation, conspiracies, and information from questionable sources. Please research the facts from reputable sites like the CDC before taking anyone's opinion as fact about COVID-19 or related vaccinations.*
> 
> https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/disclaimer-and-reminder.62672/


The CDC is losing its reputation of reputable information. 
I used to trust that site, not now.


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## WhatInThe (Aug 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> The CDC is losing its reputation of reputable information.
> I used to trust that site, not now.


That's the thing information is changing sometimes literally on the CDC and other sites.

 Just have to look at things like who is speaking/writing(are they a doctor or scientist because they are different things). If a study scan study for misc variables. If multiple sources start picking up the same story there might be something to it. Most information will have to gathered in bits and pieces there is no one source or article. Example article titled 'All you need to know'-no, yes there might be something there. Information is a work in progress now a days


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## win231 (Aug 9, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> You cannot seem to understand that only a very few places in the US got to that extreme.  You have said your local news said your hospital was at that point (no links ever provided to substantiate that assertion),  but the only places I remember seeing needing makeshift morgues were at the beginning of the pandemic in NYC, NOLA and later in the year during El Paso's worst peak.
> 
> It's a thing you really, really like to talk about though which is odd.


You really, really like to keep your head in the sand, which is odd.


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## OscarW (Aug 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It's up to the individual to decide what information is misleading or not. It's not up to you or others who want to sensor information.


I agree with you Becky.

If the claims being made against the vaccine are false, true science will expose them as such in due time. Meanwhile, silencing debate and censorship are forms of tyranny we should all oppose.


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## Devi (Aug 9, 2021)

OscarW said:


> If the claims being made against the vaccine are false, true science will expose them as such in due time. Meanwhile, silencing debate and censorship are forms of tyranny we should all oppose.


Yes. If we're going to start censoring here at the Senior Forums, that wouldn't work for me.


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## Don M. (Aug 9, 2021)

Devi said:


> Yes. If we're going to start censoring here at the Senior Forums, that wouldn't work for me.



Exposing the lies and misinformation surround this virus and the vaccines is NOT censorship.  Instead, it is a attempt to limit this Internet BS that seems to be influencing so many and allowing this virus to continue to spread.  

We, and the entire global population, are in a crisis that will only continue to get worse if the vast majority don't take full advantage of the measures already proven to aid in the control of this disease.  

If exposing these lies makes me a "censor", I plead guilty....however, I have concerns for my family and friends, and I Will Not sit idly by, and do nothing.


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## oldman (Aug 9, 2021)

From what I have read, developing a vaccine for the Coronavirus didn't just begin in 2019, but more than ten years ago. A group of doctors formed a consortium to put their money together to do the groundwork, experiments and testing, which according to them, the vaccine was able to be delivered in under a year. Most of us, if not all, thought the scientists started from scratch developing the vaccine, but now it appears that maybe it was already in the making over ten years ago. 

According to one of the doctors in the consortium, if more people knew or were made aware that the vaccine for coronaviruses has been an ongoing venture for over a decade now, maybe vaccine hesitancy would be less than what it is. Take a look:

*Coronaviruses Vaccine*


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## SeaBreeze (Aug 9, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Exposing the lies and misinformation surround this virus and the vaccines is NOT censorship.  Instead, it is a attempt to limit this Internet BS that seems to be influencing so many and allowing this virus to continue to spread.
> 
> We, and the entire global population, are in a crisis that will only continue to get worse if the vast majority don't take full advantage of the measures already proven to aid in the control of this disease.
> 
> If exposing these lies makes me a "censor", I plead guilty....however, I have concerns for my family and friends, and I Will Not sit idly by, and do nothing.


Well said!


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## Don M. (Aug 9, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> It amazes me that no one has been doing autopsies on patients dying post-vaccine. I just assumed that 10% of them (at the very least) were being autopsied. 25% would be reasonable.


An Autopsy might remove some of the uncertainties surrounding this virus.  However, to perform a full autopsy requires 6 to 8 hours, and the results can take anywhere from 2 days to 6 weeks.

Given the small number of vaccinated, who have died, I suspect that an autopsy would show that most of those already had some underlying condition that aggravated their contracting the virus.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/cov...n-hospitalized-or-died-after-vaccination.html


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## AnnieA (Aug 9, 2021)

win231 said:


> You really, really like to keep your head in the sand, which is odd.


Prove me wrong with sources that there were widespread, national reports of "meat trucks."  As I've said, only a few places needed makeshift morgues. I know NOLA did because of medical personnel friends there.  I can easily find out about El Paso from a LEO friend there if you'd like.

As for it being widespread across the nation or falsely reported at the specific hospitals the week you said you visited, the burden of proof is on you.  Or you can reply with another of your meaningless, intellectually lazy insults that serve only to make you look a myopic fool.  There's no easy position on this subject...no one side.  You can neither blanket believe nor discount things you hear from bureaucrats or news sources.  It takes digging, comparative analysis and it's very helpful to know those on the frontlines in real life.


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## AnnieA (Aug 9, 2021)

Double post.


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## Becky1951 (Aug 9, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> You cannot seem to understand that only a very few places in the US got to that extreme.  You have said your local news said your hospital was at that point (no links ever provided to substantiate that assertion),  but the only places I remember seeing needing makeshift morgues were at the beginning of the pandemic in NYC, NOLA and later in the year during El Paso's worst peak.
> 
> It's a thing you really, really like to talk about though which is odd.


I remember reading the various news outlets, seemingly all news outlets reporting the refrigerated trucks/trailers brought in to be used as temporary morgues. First NY then N/O then Texas. Pictures of them, pictures of workers putting body bags in them. I never doubted it to be true. Still don't. 

But still believe in the right to choose and freedom of posting articles without censorship.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 9, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Prove me wrong with sources that *there were widespread, national reports of "meat trucks."*  As I've said, only a few places needed makeshift morgues. I know NOLA did because of medical personnel friends there.  I can easily find out about El Paso from a LEO friend there if you'd like.
> 
> As for it being widespread across the nation or falsely reported at the specific hospitals the week you said you visited, the burden of proof is on you.  Or you can reply with another of your meaningless, intellectually lazy insults that serve only to make you look a myopic fool.  There's no easy position on this subject...no one side.  You can neither blanket believe nor discount things you hear from bureaucrats or news sources.  It takes digging, comparative analysis and it's very helpful to know those on the frontlines in real life.


Annie, there were. The parking lot morgues and so-called meat trucks were happening in eastern states, but they were headline news here in Sacramento, Calif for weeks. And while the reports did name the hospitals where it was happening, it caused people here to stop going to our local hospital ER with emergencies and to cancel doctor appointments, elective surgeries and therapies and stuff. People panicked, and during the panic our hospital parking lots looked deserted. A free-lance journalist here finally did a story about it and people calmed down.

I can't prove this because these were mostly televised reports. The newspapers didn't sensationalize it as much as television news did.


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## AnnieA (Aug 9, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Annie, there were. The parking lot morgues and so-called meat trucks were happening in eastern states, but they were headline news here in Sacramento, Calif for weeks. And while the reports did name the hospitals were it was happening, it caused people here to stop going to our local hospital ER with emergencies and to cancel doctor appointments, elective surgeries and therapies and stuff. People panicked, and during the panic our hospital parking lots looked deserted. A free-lance journalist here finally did a story about it and people calmed down.
> 
> I can't prove this because these were mostly televised reports. The newspapers didn't sensationalize it as much as television news did.



Not surprised that other places with peaks did, but the big three I remember making national news were NOLA, NYC and El Paso.   In addition to people people staying away from hospitals out of panic, in many places last year, elective procedures were postponed for months.   Our local hospital actually laid off a lot of staff who weren't ER, respiratory therapy or critical care trained for several months.   ICU staff were overwhelmed, but there wasn't much else for regular floor and support staff to do.  Parking lots were near empty during that time.


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## win231 (Aug 9, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Prove me wrong with sources that there were widespread, national reports of "meat trucks."  As I've said, only a few places needed makeshift morgues. I know NOLA did because of medical personnel friends there.  I can easily find out about El Paso from a LEO friend there if you'd like.
> 
> As for it being widespread across the nation or falsely reported at the specific hospitals the week you said you visited, the burden of proof is on you.  Or you can reply with another of your meaningless, intellectually lazy insults that serve only to make you look a myopic fool.  There's no easy position on this subject...no one side.  You can neither blanket believe nor discount things you hear from bureaucrats or news sources.  It takes digging, comparative analysis and it's very helpful to know those on the frontlines in real life.


Yeah.......I must have made it all up.  But give me a break, 'cuz I'm not as intellectually developed as you.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 9, 2021)

Don M. said:


> An Autopsy might remove some of the uncertainties surrounding this virus.  However, to perform a full autopsy requires 6 to 8 hours, and the results can take anywhere from 2 days to 6 weeks.
> 
> Given the small number of vaccinated, who have died, I suspect that an autopsy would show that most of those already had some underlying condition that aggravated their contracting the virus.
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/cov...n-hospitalized-or-died-after-vaccination.html


What you suspect vs what doctors and scientists could discover. ...


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## AnnieA (Aug 9, 2021)

win231 said:


> Yeah.......I must have made it all up.  But give me a break, 'cuz I'm not as intellectually developed as you.



I actually said your insults look intellectually lazy ...who knows how developed you could be if you tried.   Myopic was the other word.


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## win231 (Aug 9, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> I actually said your insults look intellectually lazy ...who knows how developed you could be if you tried.   Myopic was the other word.


I'll try & do better from now on.   Maybe you can help me.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 9, 2021)

oldman said:


> From what I have read, developing a vaccine for the Coronavirus didn't just begin in 2019, but more than ten years ago. A group of doctors formed a consortium to put their money together to do the groundwork, experiments and testing, which according to them, the vaccine was able to be delivered in under a year. Most of us, if not all, thought the scientists started from scratch developing the vaccine, but now it appears that maybe it was already in the making over ten years ago.
> 
> According to one of the doctors in the consortium, if more people knew or were made aware that the vaccine for coronaviruses has been an ongoing venture for over a decade now, maybe vaccine hesitancy would be less than what it is. Take a look:
> 
> *Coronaviruses Vaccine*


That's true. They started working on a vaccine during the spread of SARS/MERS coronaviruses. The controversy at the time was the use of a synthetic RNA. Scientists were concerned about its the long-term effects and they were trying to figure out how to test that when they were only allowed to use rats at the time. I don't know if they ever got the go-ahead to use pigs. They wanted to. (I might look that up)


----------



## oldman (Aug 9, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> That's true. They started working on a vaccine during the spread of SARS/MERS coronaviruses. The controversy at the time was the use of a synthetic RNA. Scientists were concerned about its the long-term effects and they were trying to figure out how to test that when they were only allowed to use rats at the time. I don't know if they ever got the go-ahead to use pigs. They wanted to. (I might look that up)


I kind of got the impression that the reason for forming a consortium was because they received no funding and pooled together their resources. Because SARS and MERS are linked to the coronavirus, it made a good place to start for experimenting with mRNA vaccines. And, since some of the work had been completed, scientists were able to develop a COVID vaccine in less time than it would have taken if they would have had to start at the beginning.


----------



## Murrmurr (Aug 9, 2021)

oldman said:


> I kind of got the impression that the reason for forming a consortium was because they received no funding and pooled together their resources. Because SARS and MERS are linked to the coronavirus, it made a good place to start for experimenting with mRNA vaccines. And, since some of the work had been completed, *scientists were able to develop a COVID vaccine in less time than it would have taken if they would have had to start at the beginning.*


Yes, that's true. I was just saying it wasn't without controversy. Maybe that's why they had trouble getting the funding, idk.


----------



## win231 (Aug 9, 2021)

Don M. said:


> Exposing the lies and misinformation surround this virus and the vaccines is NOT censorship.  Instead, it is a attempt to limit this Internet BS that seems to be influencing so many and allowing this virus to continue to spread.
> 
> We, and the entire global population, are in a crisis that will only continue to get worse if the vast majority don't take full advantage of the measures already proven to aid in the control of this disease.
> 
> If exposing these lies makes me a "censor", I plead guilty....however, I have concerns for my family and friends, and I Will Not sit idly by, and do nothing.


Your opinion is no more valid than anyone else's - whether they agree with you or not.


----------



## mellowyellow (Aug 9, 2021)

My granddaughter and her husband who have two small children, say they will not get the vaccine at a time when our young people are starting to fill up our hospitals. Total insanity IMO.


----------



## mellowyellow (Aug 9, 2021)

_CHICAGO — The American Medical Association (AMA) today released a new survey (PDF) among practicing physicians that shows more than 96 percent of surveyed U.S. physicians have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19, with no significant difference in vaccination rates across regions.

“Practicing physicians across the country are leading by example, with an amazing uptake of the COVID-19 vaccines,” said AMA President Susan R. Bailey, MD. “Physicians and clinicians are uniquely positioned to listen to and validate patient concerns, and one of the most powerful anecdotes a physician can offer is that they themselves have been vaccinated. You can take it from your doctor: the COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective. With COVID-19 vaccines readily available and approved for all people 12 years old and up, we urge you to get vaccinated—take the single most important step you can to protect yourself, your family, and end the COVID-19 pandemic.”

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-cent...-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19_


----------



## win231 (Aug 9, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> My granddaughter and her husband who have two small children, say they will not get the vaccine at a time when our young people are starting to fill up our hospitals. Total insanity IMO.


You haven't discussed their reasons with them??


----------



## FastTrax (Aug 9, 2021)

John cycling said:


> Ryan Cole, M.D. - "Covid-19 Vaccines and Autopsy" <--
> 
> Scientific Truth - as opposed to vaccination controlled media fear mongering propaganda.
> 
> Watch this, and decide for yourself.



WOW!!!!!!!! Is this guy lit or what? Ole doc here is living proof that 100% Bolivian flake "IS" available. TOOT TOOT.


----------



## Ladybj (Aug 9, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Thanks Don!  So many people get sucked into believing this misinformation and conspiracy from online sources.  Many of these 'doctors' who spread these lies are encouraging people not to act responsibly and take the vaccine.
> 
> Social media is a big reason that we're in the sad state with this pandemic that we are.  If people could do some research on their own, they could tell what sources are reputable and which ones are just doing harm.  Good that you posted that information, to remain silent makes the misinformation appear to be more truthful.


I agree, one has to do their own research and I have done just that.  What I have found is too may unanswered questions.  We are told what "they" want us to know.  Not saying its good or bad - it just is.


----------



## Ladybj (Aug 9, 2021)

Fear, misinformation, dollar signs are spreading faster then the Virus...jmo.


----------



## Ladybj (Aug 9, 2021)

oldman said:


> From what I have read, developing a vaccine for the Coronavirus didn't just begin in 2019, but more than ten years ago. A group of doctors formed a consortium to put their money together to do the groundwork, experiments and testing, which according to them, the vaccine was able to be delivered in under a year. Most of us, if not all, thought the scientists started from scratch developing the vaccine, but now it appears that maybe it was already in the making over ten years ago.
> 
> According to one of the doctors in the consortium, if more people knew or were made aware that the vaccine for coronaviruses has been an ongoing venture for over a decade now, maybe vaccine hesitancy would be less than what it is. Take a look:
> 
> *Coronaviruses Vaccine*


Sooooo ten years ago, they were developing a Coronavirus vaccine... "they" must have known something that we didn't.  Very interesting if that is true. Makes you go..hmmmmmm.  jmo.


----------



## Becky1951 (Aug 9, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> Sooooo ten years ago, they were developing a Coronavirus vaccine... "they" must have known something that we didn't.  Very interesting if that is true. Makes you go..hmmmmmm.  jmo.


The common cold is a corona virus.  So they can technically say they started working on a Corona virus vaccine 10 years ago. Do we have a vaccine against the common cold yet?   

Edit to add

The research from previous coronaviruses such as SARS in 2002 and MERS in 2012, are what lead to the beginning of the research for a Covid vaccine.


----------



## mellowyellow (Aug 9, 2021)

win231 said:


> You haven't discussed their reasons with them??


No, a very strong willed couple, her mother and I have had no success and we have to accept their decision.


----------



## Time Waits 4 No Man (Aug 9, 2021)

I still remember several incidences from last year, when the US news media was almost hysterical when it came to reporting about "overflowing hospitals" and "lack of ventilators", among other things. Yet, strangely, during that time videos like this one were posted, at the height of the initial Covid "panic", showing hospital workers in what appears to be a hospital ward acting none too concerned about this alleged "pandemic":






REMEMBER THIS SHIP THAT GOVERNOR CUOMO CLAIMED NEW YORK DESPERATELY NEEDED?




​


> The 1,000-Bed Comfort Was Supposed to Aid New York. It Has 20 Patients.​
> Apr 3, 2020
> Such were the expectations for the Navy hospital ship U.S.N.S. Comfort that when it chugged into New York Harbor this week, throngs of people, momentarily forgetting the strictures of social distancing, crammed together along Manhattan’s west side to catch a glimpse. On Thursday, though, the huge white vessel, which officials had promised would bring succor to a city on the brink, sat mostly empty, infuriating executives at local hospitals. *The ship’s 1,000 beds are largely unused, its 1,200-member crew mostly idle.*


----------



## ProTruckDriver (Aug 9, 2021)

Way too many unanswered questions on this vaccine. I don't want to speak politics but when the leader of the free world said that there were 350 million people vaccinated already in the United States and the population is only about 330 million total. All I can say is WoW!


----------



## win231 (Aug 9, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> Way too many unanswered questions on this vaccine. I don't want to speak politics but when the leader of the free world said that there were 350 million people vaccinated already in the United States and the population is only about 330 million total. All I can say is WoW!


Yup - when you want everyone to do something, tell them "Everyone else is doing it."  They know most people are sheep.
McDonalds - "Billions & Billions Served."


----------



## Ladybj (Aug 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> The common cold is a corona virus.  So they can technically say they started working on a Corona virus vaccine 10 years ago. Do we have a vaccine against the common cold yet?
> 
> Edit to add
> 
> The research from previous coronaviruses such as SARS in 2002 and MERS in 2012, are what lead to the beginning of the research for a Covid vaccine.


Therefore some people may be diagnosed with Covid and actually have a common cold...


----------



## Sunny (Aug 12, 2021)

win231 said:


> Actually, any medical professional who says anything negative about the Covid vaccine will affect the manufacturer's bottom line.  And would also likely affect theirs as well.


Oh, for God's sake, this "bottom line" nonsense has been run into the ground so much (on this forum) that it's coming out the other side!  Why is it so terrible for a company that developed a life-saving drug in record time to make a profit by selling it, the same as every other business in this country?  How many businesses produce anything and give it out to the public free of charge?

Suddenly, the same people who usually represent the "business" side of things are against one kind of business making a profit, but only that one kind?!  Is there no end to this insanity?

And before you bring it up, Win, no, I have no medical professionals or anyone in the pharmaceutical industry in my family.  And I don't own any stocks remotely related to the Covid vaccine. No personal connection to any of it, financial or otherwise. I would just like to see more people remain alive, and life return to normal.  I really don't care how much or how little profit the companies are making, as long as they are keeping more of us healthy.

Where is the outcry against Amazon, Apple, entertainment and sports venues, junk food franchises?  They've been known to make a dollar or two also, without any screaming about it on this forum.

The only important issues about the vaccine(s) are: do they work? Are they safe, at least for the overwhelming number of people who get the shots? Are they effective against the disease?  Why is the company's profits suddenly a matter of such concern (but no other kind of company, only the pharaceuticals.)

Out of all the ludicrous arguments against the vaccine that the anti-vaxxers have come up with, that's got to be the most ridiculous.


----------



## win231 (Aug 12, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Oh, for God's sake, this "bottom line" nonsense has been run into the ground so much (on this forum) that it's coming out the other side!  Why is it so terrible for a company that developed a life-saving drug in record time to make a profit by selling it, the same as every other business in this country?  How many businesses produce anything and give it out to the public free of charge?
> 
> Suddenly, the same people who usually represent the "business" side of things are against one kind of business making a profit, but only that one kind?!  Is there no end to this insanity?
> 
> ...


What's ridiculous is you thinking you have all the answers to the "important issues."  You don't.  Neither does anyone else, regardless of their education Levels.


----------



## ProTruckDriver (Aug 12, 2021)

Sunny said:


> How many businesses produce anything and give it out to the public free of charge?


You say FREE!  Do you really believe that? I read an article about the Luxury Tax increasing in Canada to pay for the vaccine. It will be the same way in the US. The tax payers everywhere will pay for the shots given out, even the anti-vaxxers will pay. Notice I said taxpayers. To the undocumented and people on welfare they will get it FREE on the taxpayers dime.


----------



## Murrmurr (Aug 12, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Oh, for God's sake, this "bottom line" nonsense has been run into the ground so much (on this forum) that it's coming out the other side!  Why is it so terrible for a company that developed a life-saving drug in record time to make a profit by selling it, the same as every other business in this country?  How many businesses produce anything and give it out to the public free of charge?
> 
> Suddenly, the same people who usually represent the "business" side of things are against one kind of business making a profit, but only that one kind?!  Is there no end to this insanity?
> 
> ...


There HAS been outcry against Amazon, Apple, entertainment and sports venues, and junk food franchises. And, fortunately, there's been enough transparency or public exposure to help consumers understand these entity's evil-doings, and decide whether or not they want to continue doing business with them. No one is forced to decide one way or another. And if they decide not to, are they called anti-Amazonians, anti-Applers, or anti-burgermaniacs? No one gets trolled for canceling their Lakers season tickets or for streaming movies for $10/mo or whatever to avoid supporting Hollywood studios.

There are unanswered questions about the covid vaccine; there are unknowns. There is indisputable evidence that, aside from the N-95, masks are completely ineffective. And, most importantly, there are laws (here, at least) that protect my right to make personal choices, including choices about my health.


----------



## Don M. (Aug 12, 2021)

ProTruckDriver said:


> You say FREE!  Do you really believe that? I read an article about the Luxury Tax increasing in Canada to pay for the vaccine. It will be the same way in the US. The tax payers everywhere will pay for the shots given out, even the anti-vaxxers will pay. Notice I said taxpayers. To the undocumented and people on welfare they will get it FREE on the taxpayers dime.



There is NO Free Lunch....on Anything.  The billions of dollars in medical costs that are being run up due to this virus, WILL be showing up in our future expenses.  Even though these vaccines are apparently not very expensive....$25 per shot, approximately....the millions of shots will quickly add up to billions.  Then, the massive number of hospitalizations will add 10's of billions, or more, to the overall costs.  

I'm sure the insurance companies are already calculating their losses, and we will soon see rising premiums.  Programs like Medicare and Medicaid will be in financial trouble much sooner, as a result of these expenses.  

Between the costs of this virus, rising inflation, and unfunded government spending, etc., the groundwork is being laid for some serious national financial problems.


----------



## Becky1951 (Aug 12, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> There HAS been outcry against Amazon, Apple, entertainment and sports venues, and junk food franchises. And, fortunately, there's been enough transparency or public exposure to help consumers understand these entity's evil-doings, and decide whether or not they want to continue doing business with them. No one is forced to decide one way or another. And if they decide not to, are they called anti-Amazonians, anti-Applers, or anti-burgermaniacs? No one gets trolled for canceling their Lakers season tickets or for streaming movies for $10/mo or whatever to avoid supporting Hollywood studios.
> 
> There are unanswered questions about the covid vaccine; there are unknowns. There is indisputable evidence that, aside from the N-95, masks are completely ineffective. And, most importantly, there are laws (here, at least) that protect my right to make personal choices, including choices about my health.


"No one is forced to decide one way or another. And if they decide not to, are they called anti-Amazonians, anti-Applers, or anti-burgermaniacs?"

OMG, thanks for the laugh of the day, I had just taken a mouth full of coffee when I read that and coffee went everywhere I was laughing so hard. 

Yes its a choice and shouldn't come with these stupid labels.


----------



## AnnieA (Aug 12, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Oh, for God's sake, this "bottom line" nonsense has been run into the ground so much (on this forum) that it's coming out the other side!  Why is it so terrible for a company that developed a life-saving drug in record time to make a profit by selling it, the same as every other business in this country?  How many businesses produce anything and give it out to the public free of charge?
> 
> Suddenly, the same people who usually represent the "business" side of things are against one kind of business making a profit, but only that one kind?!  Is there no end to this insanity?



@Sunny A big part of it is that pharmaceutical companies have been corrupt before the pandemic.  It's hard to turn around and trust now.

The EpiPen scandal is only one example. 

The fact that pharmaceutical companies lobby Congress more than any other industry including Big Oil is suspicious--and that's above the table money.

The fact that pharmaceutical companies are the primary funding source of continuing education for medical professionals in the US is skewed.  In my nine years working in renal, using MD signed protocols, I dosed several oral and IV medications related to calcium and phosphorus in renal patients so I was the person those reps talked to.  I'd listen to their latest and greatest study showing why their product was superior to competitors, read the fine print and find that the company the rep worked for funded the study.  As in most everything in healthcare, there was no "one size fits all" in the meds I used but pharmaceutical companies did their damndest to push their product as "The One."

The fact that in this pandemic, the vaccine is being pushed as the be all, end all to the near exclusion of prevention and early treatment including Vitamin D level testing and supplementation if needed, home monitoring of O2 sats, promotion of treatments using generic, low cost antivirals at onset of sickness that are being used and are preventing the need for hospitalizations. Not only are those at the top not encouraging widely available, inexpensive treatments, they're touting poorly designed studies with poor outcomes and keeping silent about positive studies, including real patient retrospective studies such as the early positive hydroxychloroquine retrospective showing positive impact of the drug at New York Presbyterian Cornell.   Sick people are not being told that early treatment with monoclonal antibodies greatly decreases infection severity (though I hope that Florida's recent push for them will highlight their importance). Instead of experts and leaders promoting a multi-pronged approach, they are promoting polarization. 

It's easy for a vaccinated person to point a finger at the unvaccinated filling hospitals, but save another finger for those at the top who are not equally  promoting the use of *every *resource to fight the disease.


.


----------



## win231 (Aug 13, 2021)

mellowyellow said:


> _CHICAGO — The American Medical Association (AMA) today released a new survey (PDF) among practicing physicians that shows more than 96 percent of surveyed U.S. physicians have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19, with no significant difference in vaccination rates across regions.
> 
> “Practicing physicians across the country are leading by example, with an amazing uptake of the COVID-19 vaccines,” said AMA President Susan R. Bailey, MD. “Physicians and clinicians are uniquely positioned to listen to and validate patient concerns, and one of the most powerful anecdotes a physician can offer is that they themselves have been vaccinated. You can take it from your doctor: the COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective. With COVID-19 vaccines readily available and approved for all people 12 years old and up, we urge you to get vaccinated—take the single most important step you can to protect yourself, your family, and end the COVID-19 pandemic.”
> 
> https://www.ama-assn.org/press-cent...-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19_





Ladybj said:


> Therefore some people may be diagnosed with Covid and actually have a common cold...


Science always provides methods to fool non thinkers.


----------



## Ladybj (Aug 13, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> @Sunny A big part of it is that pharmaceutical companies have been corrupt before the pandemic.  It's hard to turn around and trust now.
> 
> The EpiPen scandal is only one example.
> 
> ...


VERY WELL STATED!!!!!!  I agree with you 101%.  They have to blame somebody why they can't control the pandemic and they blame the unvax.. WOW - did not realize the unvax had soooo much power...smh.   

If everyone in the World was vax, then who would they blame - dogs, cats, babies??  Hmm..maybe they may come out with an animal vax... I would not be surprised...jmo.  I pray everyone be safe and hopefully everyone that has been vax do not have to take the Booster shot nor have to be vaxed annually.


----------



## win231 (Aug 13, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> VERY WELL STATED!!!!!!  I agree with you 101%.  They have to blame somebody why they can't control the pandemic and they blame the unvax.. WOW - did not realize the unvax had soooo much power...smh.
> 
> If everyone in the World was vax, then who would they blame - dogs, cats, babies??  Hmm..maybe they may come out with an animal vax... I would not be surprised...jmo.  I pray everyone be safe and hopefully everyone that has been vax do not have to take the Booster shot nor have to be vaxed annually.


If everyone was vaccinated, they'd blame fleas & mosquitoes & start a fear campaign to mandate their prescription insecticide drugs/vaccines........"_To protect others, get back to normal & keep us moving forward." _ Fauci & Ferrer could become famous again.
And also avoid crowded hospitals, overworked hero medical staff & refrigerated meat trucks to store the bodies of people who refused the vaccine.
Oh......and, of course demonize anyone who didn't buy it.


----------



## suds00 (Sep 8, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> Therefore some people may be diagnosed with Covid and actually have a common cold...


who are these people?


----------



## suds00 (Sep 8, 2021)

win231 said:


> Your opinion is no more valid than anyone else's - whether they agree with you or not.


your" opinions" are either not ""opinions" or they are attempts at" one-upsmanship".that's my considered "opinion"


----------



## John cycling (Sep 8, 2021)




----------



## suds00 (Sep 8, 2021)

John cycling said:


> View attachment 182872


600.000+ americans are dead due to covid-19


----------



## Pepper (Sep 8, 2021)

John cycling said:


> View attachment 182872


He doesn't have to speak.  He even looks like an idiot.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 8, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> It amazes me that no one has been doing autopsies on patients dying post-vaccine. I just assumed that 10% of them (at the very least) were being autopsied. 25% would be reasonable.


So, of someone dies of a heart attack but has previously vaccinated against Covid, what would an autopsy discover? If there is a link with any particular Covid vaccine and subsequent mortality I would think that any problem would show as a statistical link without the need for an autopsy. If there had been any problems with the vaccines then it should have become evident in the trials. Some vaccines were scrapped very early for just that reason. A promising one in Australia was scrapped simply because recipients were throwing false positive reactions when tested for HIV. The vaccine was not giving them any diseases at all.

What makes you think that more autopsies are necessary?


----------



## suds00 (Sep 8, 2021)

win231 said:


> If everyone was vaccinated, they'd blame fleas & mosquitoes & start a fear campaign to mandate their prescription insecticide drugs/vaccines........"_To protect others, get back to normal & keep us moving forward." _ Fauci & Ferrer could become famous again.
> And also avoid crowded hospitals, overworked hero medical staff & refrigerated meat trucks to store the bodies of people who refused the vaccine.
> Oh......and, of course demonize anyone who didn't buy it.


who is making absurd comparisons? who is demonizing respected public servants and doctors?


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 8, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> Sooooo ten years ago, they were developing a Coronavirus vaccine... "they" must have known something that we didn't.  Very interesting if that is true. Makes you go..hmmmmmm.  jmo.


They were responding to the SARS crisis. Covid is caused by a corona virus like the one that caused SARS. In fact, its actual name  is SARS-Cov-2. I'm so glad that someone had the initiative to begin proactive work on a new approach to developing  vaccines for viruses. I'm also glad that we have moved forward enough to have developed any form of vaccine for viruses. There was a time when we could only be immunised against bacterial infections. Common wisdom then said that is you had a virus all you could do was treat the symptoms and stay is bed until you got either better or died. After viral diseases like ebola appeared that didn't seem like a good enough strategy any more.

I am very grateful for the work of medical scientists.


----------



## win231 (Sep 8, 2021)

suds00 said:


> who is making absurd comparisons? who is demonizing respected public servants and doctors?


*ME.*


----------



## squatting dog (Sep 9, 2021)

suds00 said:


> 600.000+ americans are dead due to covid-19


Says who? The trusted  CDC??  Hmmm, let's see what that trusted outfit gave us to explain exactly what a vaccine is as recently as August 26th 2021.... Here’s the definition the CDC used  to explain a vaccine and vaccination.

Vaccine “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease.”
Vaccination– “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.”

You got that? A vaccine is supposed to produce immunity to a specific disease. The problem is that Covid 19 is not a disease.

So, now that some questions about the vaccine have cropped up, do we look into them? No, we simply change the definition.  
Vaccine– “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response 
against diseases.”
Note the subtle but important change. Instead of “PRODUCING IMMUNITY” the new 
definition moves the goal posts and states that their pseudo vaccine 
“STIMULATES THE BODY’S IMMUNE RESPONSE.”

If you think that our establishment medical community is honest, think again. They are not. The litany of lies and deception grows with each passing day.


----------



## suds00 (Sep 9, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Says who? The trusted  CDC??  Hmmm, let's see what that trusted outfit gave us to explain exactly what a vaccine is as recently as August 26th 2021.... Here’s the definition the CDC used  to explain a vaccine and vaccination.
> 
> Vaccine “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease.”
> Vaccination– “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.”
> ...


explain this to families of those who lost loved ones who lost loved ones to covid -19 disease caused by a corona virus.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 9, 2021)

The virus is designated by the combination SARS cov 2 
SARS -> Severe acute respiratory syndrome, the symptoms caused by the virus
cov -> corona virus, refers to the structure of the virus
2 -> a second virus from the original SARS virus

The disease that SARS cov 2 is causes Covid 19 (19 for 2019 when it first appeared in humans) It is a real disease that can be severe in many and deadly for some.


----------



## Judycat (Sep 9, 2021)

Sorry. I only saw the beginning couple secs. Videos like that may cause seizures.


----------



## squatting dog (Sep 9, 2021)

Let's take a trip down CDC memory lane.

Just wait; 2 weeks to flatten the curve.
1 shot to stop the spread.
1 booster to guarantee immunity.
Annual vaccine to prevent recurrence.
All that with a mortality rate of less than .02.


----------



## squatting dog (Sep 9, 2021)

suds00 said:


> 600.000+ americans are dead due to covid-19


Yes, it's tragic that there are people who died of covid.  However, it's also tragic that people have died of cancer, flu, auto accidents, gunshots, etc. I question the number bandied about by the media.
 I'm no expert, but, personally I know of 2 deaths that were called covid related on the death certificate that had nothing to do with covid. First, it was a friend who died after a botched gall bladder operation, the other was my neighbors nephew who drowned in a quarry hole.  Now, if I know of 2 in my small circle, who is to say that there are 600,000 deaths are all from covid?
There is an old saying  "figures lie, and liars figure".


----------



## win231 (Sep 9, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Yes, it's tragic that there are people who died of covid.  However, it's also tragic that people have died of cancer, flu, auto accidents, gunshots, etc. I question the number bandied about by the media.
> I'm no expert, but, personally I know of 2 deaths that were called covid related on the death certificate that had nothing to do with covid. First, it was a friend who died after a botched gall bladder operation, the other was my neighbors nephew who drowned in a quarry hole.  Now, if I know of 2 in my small circle, who is to say that there are 600,000 deaths are all from covid?
> There is an old saying  "figures lie, and liars figure".


Much better for the hospital to blame their incompetence on Covid.  And (if they create enough doubt) much cheaper, too.
I posted this nightmare before:  One dentist who did an incompetent bridge on me by cementing crowns that were way too short, told me "It's not my fault; your teeth shifted."  After a year of fighting, he refunded me the $3,000.00 to have another dentist replace the bridge. 
It's rare for a doctor to admit an error - especially when a lot of money is at stake.  If a dentist wouldn't admit a mistake to keep $3,000.00, what would a surgeon do when hundreds of thousands of dollars are at stake?


----------



## Becky1951 (Sep 9, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Yes, it's tragic that there are people who died of covid.  However, it's also tragic that people have died of cancer, flu, auto accidents, gunshots, etc. I question the number bandied about by the media.
> I'm no expert, but, personally I know of 2 deaths that were called covid related on the death certificate that had nothing to do with covid. First, it was a friend who died after a botched gall bladder operation, the other was my neighbors nephew who drowned in a quarry hole.  Now, if I know of 2 in my small circle, who is to say that there are 600,000 deaths are all from covid?
> There is an old saying  "figures lie, and liars figure".


"I know of 2 in my small circle"

I have a large circle of family and friends. 6 have had Covid, one of them had it after being vaccinated 3 months prior. One has COPD and type 2 diabetes and is 75 years old, she said it was like a bad case of the flu. The others said it was like a mild case of the flu, ages ranging between 25-76. My son said it was like a cold and sinus infection except he lost sense of smell and taste for a week. My son and DIL are included in those 6 and were both inside my small cabin with me for about 3 hours with doors and windows closed and a/c on the day before they started feeling sick and got tested 2 days later.  I had a "cold" 5 days later. 

One of the 6 died, he had several serious health problems last few years, type 1 diabetes, COPD and had a serious heart attack 9 months ago and 4 way bypass.


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## Ladybj (Sep 9, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Yes, it's tragic that there are people who died of covid.  However, it's also tragic that people have died of cancer, flu, auto accidents, gunshots, etc. I question the number bandied about by the media.
> I'm no expert, but, personally I know of 2 deaths that were called covid related on the death certificate that had nothing to do with covid. First, it was a friend who died after a botched gall bladder operation, the other was my neighbors nephew who drowned in a quarry hole.  Now, if I know of 2 in my small circle, who is to say that there are 600,000 deaths are all from covid?
> There is an old saying  "figures lie, and liars figure".


I truly do not believe all those people died of Covid.  I have heard sooo many case where people died and it was listed as Covid which it was not...  A nurse even admitted the hospitals were doing that.  SOOOOOO SAD.


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## Brookswood (Sep 9, 2021)

Speaking  of _The Science_, here's another data point for _The Science_.

Here's a study done by England a few weeks ago. It involves many, many people. Note that hospitalization and death rates for unvaccinated people suffering from Covid are many times higher than for vaccinated people.


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## Ladybj (Sep 9, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> Here's a study done by England a few weeks ago. It involves many, many people. Note that hospitalization and death rates for unvaccinated people suffering from Covid are many times higher than for vaccinated people.


And this is accurate because.....????


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## Warrigal (Sep 9, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> And this is accurate because.....????


Because the same picture is appearing in other countries. Every day in Australia we are up dated with how many new cases have been detected, how many are hospitalised, how many in intensive care and how many have died. For the deaths we are also told the age range, vaccination status and whether there were underlying health issues.

Day by day, the picture is the same - vaccinated people are many times less likely to die from Covid and also less likely to end up on a ventilator.


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## Ladybj (Sep 9, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Because the same picture is appearing in other countries. Every day in Australia we are up dated with how many new cases have been detected, how many are hospitalised, how many in intensive care and how many have died. For the deaths we are also told the age range, vaccination status and whether there were underlying health issues.
> 
> Day by day, the picture is the same - vaccinated people are many times less likely to die from Covid and also less likely to end up on a ventilator.


So that's why vaccinated people have to get a booster shot now????


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## Warrigal (Sep 9, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> So that's why they have to get a booster shot now????


No, the reason why booster shots are necessary (or will be in Australia because we got off to a slow start with vaccinating en masse) is that the human immune system is strongest immediately after vaccination or recovery from infection. Over time it diminishes and re-infection can occur. We have boosters for serious diseases like polio in children, for tetanus as adults and in our old age for influenza and pneumonia. Covid is a serious illness and boosters are a good idea. This is how community health programs work to protect the general community as well as protecting individuals. It is not a conspiracy by evil people.


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## Brookswood (Sep 9, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> So that's why vaccinated people have to get a booster shot now????


No.  The booster is recommended because the Delta variant is far more contagious than the previous versions of the disease.   But, even without the 'booster, the vaccine still is powerful protection.   See below:


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## Ladybj (Sep 9, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> No, the reason why booster shots are necessary (or will be in Australia because we got off to a slow start with vaccinating en masse) is that the human immune system is strongest immediately after vaccination or recovery from infection. Over time it diminishes and re-infection can occur. We have boosters for serious diseases like polio in children, for tetanus as adults and in our old age for influenza and pneumonia. Covid is a serious illness and boosters are a good idea. This is how community health programs work to protect the general community as well as protecting individuals. It is not a conspiracy by evil people.


I am sure when people got the vaccine, they had NO idea they would be getting a booster shot. Just saying.


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## Ladybj (Sep 9, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> No.  The booster is recommended because the Delta variant is far more contagious than the previous versions of the disease.   But, even without the 'booster, the vaccine still is powerful protection.   See below:


So why is the booster shot being pushed if the vaccine is so powerful?  I don't look at charts, to me they don't tell the real story... that's just me.


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## Ladybj (Sep 9, 2021)

suds00 said:


> who are these people?


And who are these thousands of people that are dx with covid?


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## Warrigal (Sep 9, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> So why is the booster shot being pushed if the vaccine is so powerful?  I don't look at charts, to me they don't tell the real story... that's just me.


Charts are visual representations of actual data. Charts can be misleading but most are honest representations. If data from all around the world is telling the same story then the story is very likely to be true.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 9, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> I am sure when people got the vaccine, they had NO idea they would be getting a booster shot.


I think most of us did know.  Regular boosters or new vaccines are pretty much par for the course with a virus of this kind.  It mutates and changes and the vaccines become less effective without some kind of booster.  Like our annual flu shots.


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## Don M. (Sep 9, 2021)

After watching the news on how many were dying (globally) from this virus, it was a "no brainer" to get vaccinated.  A booster will probably be available this fall for the Moderna vaccine...which we got....and we Will get it.  A day or so of very minor arm pain is Far better than the alternatives.  The way this virus is mutating and spreading....mostly among the unvaccinated....I expect that annual boosters will become a reality.


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## win231 (Sep 9, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Because the same picture is appearing in other countries. Every day in Australia we are up dated with how many new cases have been detected, how many are hospitalised, how many in intensive care and how many have died. For the deaths we are also told the age range, vaccination status and whether there were underlying health issues.
> 
> Day by day, the picture is the same - vaccinated people are many times less likely to die from Covid and also less likely to end up on a ventilator.


Yes, & those refrigerated meat trucks to store bodies in hospital parking lots also keep filling up & they've had to call in more meat trucks.
Don't try to find those trucks; they're all invisible.
And our former president was cured of Covid in 3 days with that miracle experimental drug that was immediately approved......and not given to anyone else.


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## win231 (Sep 9, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> So why is the booster shot being pushed if the vaccine is so powerful?  I don't look at charts, to me they don't tell the real story... that's just me.


How irritating to non thinkers!


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## win231 (Sep 9, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> When the refrigerated trucks were lined up outside hospitals because the morgues were full, there was no vaccine available and no-one had any immunity to the novel corona virus. Now there are a number of different vaccines on offer and the major part of the population has been fully or partially immunised. Could that be why the refrigerated trucks are not necessary this time round?


Uh.......no.  If that was true, & the vaccines & boosters worked, why do they keep reporting hospitals overflowing with Covid patients?
You see, when something doesn't make sense, it isn't true.


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## Knight (Sep 9, 2021)

win231 said:


> Uh.......no.  If that was true, & the vaccines & boosters worked, why do they keep reporting hospitals overflowing with Covid patients?
> You see, when something doesn't make sense, it isn't true.


97% Of People Entering Hospitals For COVID-19 Are Unvaccinated

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017...ering-hospitals-for-covid-19-are-unvaccinated

Kaiser Permanente says this latest COVID surge among the unvaccinated is sending more patients to its hospital.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...s-are-impacting-non-covid-patients/ar-AAOhshZ

Many more examples of unvaccinated available but no reason to put more than two.
Vaccinations are still a choice so whatever an individual feels is right for themselves go for it. What doesn't make sense is the denial that there is a difference in vaccinated & unvaccinated cases. 
My choice was to be vaccinated.


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## GAlady (Sep 10, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> I'm not shutting anyone up, but with the situation we are in with the hospitals overflowing and Americans dying, I appreciate when falsehoods and misinformation are called out for what they are.
> 
> We have nurses right here on this forum who are fighting constantly, physically, mentally and emotionally drained from taking care of Covid patients in their hospitals and many times being by their sides as they died from the virus. Their loved ones are suffering along with them.
> 
> People who exaggerate facts to oppose coronavirus vaccinations, masks, etc., are just promoting the spread of the virus.  The Delta variant has made it all the more serious to get vaccinated and try to curb the spread.  Over 600,000 dead, front line workers exhausted, hospitals full, it's just making a tragedy even worse, IMO.  We'll never get a grip on this virus at the rate we're going.


The vaccine is a toxin that has killed people.  And the toxic vaccine will be debilitating and killing for many more years.  Covid is not going away.  Deciding to take the vaccine is damn if you do and damn if you don’t.  I will never take the vaccine.  Like playing Russian Roulette.


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

Knight said:


> 97% Of People Entering Hospitals For COVID-19 Are Unvaccinated
> 
> https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017...ering-hospitals-for-covid-19-are-unvaccinated
> 
> ...


No one is faulting you for your choice as long as you're not trying to convince others to make the same choice or ridiculing others who don't make the same choice you made.
Kaiser Permanente will report whatever they want to report or whatever they're told to report to sell vaccines.  Same with any drug advertising.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> I truly do not believe all those people died of Covid.  I have heard sooo many case where people died and it was listed as Covid which it was not...  A nurse even admitted the hospitals were doing that.  SOOOOOO SAD.


so they are fudging the numbers .that borders on criminal .we've been in a make believe health crisis for 1  1/2 years


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## squatting dog (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> so they are fudging the numbers .that borders on criminal .we've been in a make believe health crisis for 1  1/2 years


Just keep believing the all mighty CDC like all good lemmings. 
Oh, here's more CDC dribble. This from wayyyy back in July.   yet you continue to believe in them.  Your choice.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> Just keep believing the all mighty CDC like all good lemmings.
> Oh, here's more CDC dribble. This from wayyyy back in July.   yet you continue to believe in them.  Your choice.
> 
> View attachment 183200


thanks.things change.conditions change.it may not be your choice anymore.


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> so they are fudging the numbers .that borders on criminal .we've been in a make believe health crisis for 1  1/2 years


It's not quite that simple.  You're probably not aware that with science/medicine, there is quite a bit of leeway when diagnosing & reporting illness & cause of death.  I noted that when I read my father's death certificate after he died of a fall at age 88.  According to Kaiser's explanation, "A fatty embolism probably traveled from his hip that was cracked in the fall & traveled to his heart, lung, or brain causing his death."
His death certificate listed Heart Disease & Prostate Cancer as the cause of death.  He had no heart issues & his Prostate Cancer had been dormant with no treatment needed for 25 years (verified by his doctor during several visits I drove him to).


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> so they are fudging the numbers .that borders on criminal .we've been in a make believe health crisis for 1  1/2 years


Your problem is that you have an _"All or nothing" _mindset.  Either we believe _everything_ we're told 100%, without question, or we believe _nothing_ we're told.
I doubt anyone would believe there is no such thing as Covid.


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## Liberty (Sep 10, 2021)

My husband is a Fire Commissioner and trust me there is a covid epidemic.  The boys have been transporting covid patients 45 minutes out toward neighboring towns in an effort to free up ICU space closer to the Houston area.  Ask anyone on this forum that has had it.  It is here and its real. 

 Of course mistakes are made and screw ups happen.  That doesn't mean there isn't a serious situation in this country.  Be careful though, the lie you tell yourself is the most important one.


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

Liberty said:


> My husband is a Fire Commissioner and trust me there is a covid epidemic.  The boys have been transporting covid patients 45 minutes out toward neighboring towns in an effort to free up ICU space closer to the Houston area.  Ask anyone on this forum that has had it.  It is here and its real.
> 
> Of course mistakes are made and screw ups happen.  That doesn't mean there isn't a serious situation in this country.  Be careful though, the lie you tell yourself is the most important one.


Big difference between a mistake/screw up & a lie.


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## John cycling (Sep 10, 2021)

Liberty said:


> My husband is a Fire Commissioner and trust me there is a covid epidemic.



How amazing it is that the top international scientists have never been able to isolate and prove
that a virus exists, and yet a fire commissioner can verify to his wife that there's a virus epidemic. 

What's really amazing though is that unvaccinated people who never go to doctors nor hospitals
have been filling up hospitals and dying there.  So they're dying in a place where they never go.   
And yet they're still alive,  because I keep seeing and interacting with them every day.


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## Sunny (Sep 10, 2021)

John cycling said:


> How amazing it is that the top international scientists have never been able to isolate and prove
> that a virus exists, and yet a fire commissioner can verify to his wife that there's a virus epidemic.
> 
> What's really amazing though is that unvaccinated people who never go to doctors nor hospitals
> ...


John, you are living in an alternate universe.


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## Sunny (Sep 10, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> So that's why vaccinated people have to get a booster shot now????



Where I live, mostly among sane people, we are really anxious to get the booster shot, as soon as possible. Unless we are immunocompromised, we have to wait 8 months after our second shot of Pfizer. I don't think the Moderna booster is out yet.  

The booster shots for any disease do exactly what the name says, they boost our immune response to a disease. What is so bad about that?  Ladybj, you sound like you are terrified about receiving a shot.  Even one that could save your life!

At the risk of restating the obvious, they didn't mention a booster at the beginning because nobody knew anything yet about the disease, the vaccine, whether a booster would be available or advisable, or much else about it. It was all brand new.  It is ridiculous to use the newness and the amazing speed with which this life-saving vaccine was developed, as an argument against it! We should be praising the researchers to the heavens!

What are the anti-vaxxers so afraid of?  Enough to take horse de-worming medicine instead?  Truly mind-boggling.


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## win231 (Sep 10, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Where I live, mostly among sane people, we are really anxious to get the booster shot, as soon as possible. Unless we are immunocompromised, we have to wait 8 months after our second shot of Pfizer. I don't think the Moderna booster is out yet.
> 
> The booster shots for any disease do exactly what the name says, they boost our immune response to a disease. What is so bad about that?  Ladybj, you sound like you are terrified about receiving a shot.  Even one that could save your life!
> 
> ...


I'm not vaccinated, but I'll never take horse medicine again.  It tastes terrible.  And I've been neighing & snorting ever since.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

win231 said:


> Your problem is that you have an _"All or nothing" _mindset.  Either we believe _everything_ we're told 100%, without question, or we believe _nothing_ we're told.
> I doubt anyone would believe there is no such thing as Covid.


doesn't make much sense to me. how do you know what my 'mindset" is ?thanks for the input.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

win231 said:


> It's not quite that simple.  You're probably not aware that with science/medicine, there is quite a bit of leeway when diagnosing & reporting illness & cause of death.  I noted that when I read my father's death certificate after he died of a fall at age 88.  According to Kaiser's explanation, "A fatty embolism probably traveled from his hip that was cracked in the fall & traveled to his heart, lung, or brain causing his death."
> His death certificate listed Heart Disease & Prostate Cancer as the cause of death.  He had no heart issues & his Prostate Cancer had been dormant with no treatment needed for 25 years (verified by his doctor during several visits I drove him to).


my condolences for your loss. i know about comorbidities and the causes of death having experienced loss of family members.be well.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

there are still people who believe covid is not affecting large numbers of people and is not a substantial threat.


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## squatting dog (Sep 10, 2021)




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## Becky1951 (Sep 10, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> View attachment 183258


Probably easier since a scientist dosen't make as much money as a politician.


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## suds00 (Sep 10, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> View attachment 183258


i can make up clever sayings too


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## Brookswood (Sep 10, 2021)

Encouraging news from Israel on the effectivness of the booster shots.


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## Lewkat (Sep 10, 2021)

Fact of the matter here is this: the origins of COVID are still being disputed in various parts of the world.  Also, is it man made or not man made?  There are so many different publications about all this, it is hard to find two that are totally alike.  The original OP's article on Dr. Cole brought to mind about the polio vaccine when it was released to the public.  Between 1950 and 1962 or 63, it was found to contain contaminated parts of a monkey's kidney.  This in turn, caused fatal brain tumors and other cancers after tons of research.  Salk's vaccine was recalled for that batch and a new one released, with no further problems.  So, Dr. Cole no doubt used his knowledge of what can happen with vaccines in his video.  It does make one pause since the COVID vaccine came to fruition as rapidly as it has.  I had COVID-19 and it was an horrendous experience.  Later, I was vaccinated as I live in an assisted living facility and it was mandatory.  Now, I have learned that I still have antibodies and did not require vaccination at all.  However, my pulmonologist disagrees with that and is insisting I have the booster as soon as it becomes available.  No two doctors can agree as my cardiologist says it is not necessary.  So, in conclusion; all this fuss and much ado about it all is getting no one anywhere at all.  Just hope and pray you never get it.


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## Warrigal (Sep 10, 2021)

Sunny said:


> John, you are living in an alternate universe.


Apparently John doesn't believe in electron microscopes.


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## Warrigal (Sep 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Probably easier since a scientist dosen't make as much money as a politician.


I still have faith in altruism. It is much more prevalent than corruption.


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## Warrigal (Sep 10, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> Encouraging news from Israel on the effectivness of the booster shots. View attachment 183272


Do you still have the link to the source of this graphic? Australia is still rolling out first jabs and boosters are a long way off for us. I would like to see whatever else is on this site.


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## Ladybj (Sep 10, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Where I live, mostly among sane people, we are really anxious to get the booster shot, as soon as possible. Unless we are immunocompromised, we have to wait 8 months after our second shot of Pfizer. I don't think the Moderna booster is out yet.
> 
> The booster shots for any disease do exactly what the name says, they boost our immune response to a disease. What is so bad about that?  Ladybj, you sound like you are terrified about receiving a shot.  Even one that could save your life!
> 
> ...


TERRIFIED.....OH NO!!!!!!  If anything I find that (some) people that have received the vaccine are not ready to handle info that come their way about the side effects.  My hubby took the vaccine - I pray he do not continue to lose weight.  He has had several test done... which all were nornal...is it due to the vaccine - one will never know.  I pray he do not continue to lose more.  I took the flu shot many years ago..that was my first and last time and thankfully, has not had the flu and that's been over 30 years.  Being that you are not in my shoes you will not understand and I am not in yours..therefore we will not be on the page which is ok.  Terrified, no.  Common sense for my health, absolutely.


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## Ladybj (Sep 10, 2021)

suds00 said:


> thanks.things change.conditions change.it may not be your choice anymore.


I agree with you and that's why there are numerous people are not getting vaccinated.  Things are changing almost daily regarding the vaccine.


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## Ladybj (Sep 10, 2021)

My cousin shared with me that where she works, they want to know what vaccine their staff had.... WHAT!!!!   What does it matter if they are vaccinated!!


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## GAlady (Sep 10, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> Fact of the matter here is this: the origins of COVID are still being disputed in various parts of the world.  Also, is it man made or not man made?  There are so many different publications about all this, it is hard to find two that are totally alike.  The original OP's article on Dr. Cole brought to mind about the polio vaccine when it was released to the public.  Between 1950 and 1962 or 63, it was found to contain contaminated parts of a monkey's kidney.  This in turn, caused fatal brain tumors and other cancers after tons of research.  Salk's vaccine was recalled for that batch and a new one released, with no further problems.  So, Dr. Cole no doubt used his knowledge of what can happen with vaccines in his video.  It does make one pause since the COVID vaccine came to fruition as rapidly as it has.  I had COVID-19 and it was an horrendous experience.  Later, I was vaccinated as I live in an assisted living facility and it was mandatory.  Now, I have learned that I still have antibodies and did not require vaccination at all.  However, my pulmonologist disagrees with that and is insisting I have the booster as soon as it becomes available.  No two doctors can agree as my cardiologist says it is not necessary.  So, in conclusion; all this fuss and much ado about it all is getting no one anywhere at all.  Just hope and pray you never get it.


I live in an assisted living and it is not mandatory.  I have watched several fellow residents who were fully faxed get Covid.  Two have died.


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## Lewkat (Sep 10, 2021)

GAlady said:


> I live in an assisted living and it is not mandatory.  I have watched several fellow residents who were fully faxed get Covid.  Two have died.


I guess it depends on which assisted living one lives in.


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## WheatenLover (Sep 11, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> When the refrigerated trucks were lined up outside hospitals because the morgues were full, there was no vaccine available and no-one had any immunity to the novel corona virus. Now there are a number of different vaccines on offer and the major part of the population has been fully or partially immunised. Could that be why the refrigerated trucks are not necessary this time round?


Article from Newsweek published 2 weeks ago.  
Oregon Counties Join Rush for COVID Morgue Trucks as Delta Variant Rages​https://www.newsweek.com/oregon-counties-join-rush-covid-morgue-trucks-delta-variant-rages-1624031

"Oregon has seen a 990 percent increase in coronavirus hospitalizations since July, the _New York Times_ reported. Earlier this week, the state joined Florida, Arkansas and Louisiana in having more people hospitalized with COVID than ever since the pandemic began.

"Oregon isn't the only state struggling with rising COVID deaths. Last week, Texas requested five mortuary trailers from the federal government in preparation for more deceased patients."

In central Florida, hospitals have also been forced to order mobile morgues to help deal with the overflow of COVID-19 deaths. This week, Advent Health had to order 14 portable morgues to help make room for an additional 168 bodies."


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## Warrigal (Sep 11, 2021)

Our infection numbers are much less that US which is not surprising.
Our population is only just over 25 million.
However in some areas our hospital system is feeling the strain.
We haven't had to resort to mortuary trailers yet but the ambulances and paramedics are having to wait for admission outside hospitals for hours. Beds are getting scarce. The number of sick from covid, on top of all the other emergencies, is the reason for the lengthy ramping and the delays being experienced after calling for an ambulance.

People who are positive with covid but not too sick are being treated and supported at home. They are only admitted to a hospital when they start having breathing difficulties. Several have deteriorated so quickly that they died at home. Probably not the worst outcome IMO but not good for the other members of the family living in the same house.

Some young children are being admitted to hospital simply because their parents are infected and too sick to look after themselves, let alone the children.

From my POV, it will be a great day when people aren't getting infected, when ambulances aren't spending hours off the road waiting for hospitals to admit their patients and when people are able to travel freely at home and abroad.

How far away that day is depends on all of us coming together to fight a virus.


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