# “When“ vs “whenever”



## Ronni (Sep 15, 2020)

Today's annoyance brought to you by the Grammar Nazi.  

It's the misuse of the word "whenever" 

If a date is unique, or the date or time is known, use "when."  e.g. When I go on vacation, I want to rent a cabana.   

For repeated events, or events where the date or time is uncertain, use "whenever."  HINT:  If you can substitute "every time that..." or "whatever time that..." in your sentence, then the use of "whenever" is correct.  e.g. Whenever I get in the shower, the phone rings.  

You're welcome.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 15, 2020)

No one cares, no one.


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## Phoenix (Sep 15, 2020)

Someone decides what is proper or not.  As for me I do what's right for me.  People tend to misunderstand each other anyway.  Even the rules in writing have relaxed.  We all need to mellow out.


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## Keesha (Sep 15, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> No one cares, no one.


Clearly someone does.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 15, 2020)

Why are busy bodies called grammer "Nazis"?


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## Ronni (Sep 15, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Why are busy bodies called grammer "Nazis"?


You think I’m a busy body?


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## Aunt Marg (Sep 15, 2020)

Ronni said:


> Today's annoyance brought to you by the Grammar Nazi.
> 
> It's the misuse of the word "whenever"
> 
> ...


I like your lesson, though have always struggled with absorbing grammar, need alone retaining it, and I thank the English teacher I had while in Elementary school for that, where she bulldozed through material as if everyone was on her level, and for those like myself, we were left lost and confused. 

Adjectives, modifiers, modify nouns, nouns, pronouns, adverbs, modify verbs, adjectives, prepositions, conjunctions, determiners, the whole thing just turned me completely off, and even after all these years, my anger and frustration still brews over such.

Do think that grammar is one of those things where you either have the knack to learn the jest of it, or you don't, and nothing IMO could be anymore complicated or convoluted than grammar.


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## win231 (Sep 15, 2020)

Ronni said:


> You think I’m a busy body?


Ronni, "Busybody" is one word.
Gotcha!


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## Gary O' (Sep 15, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> No one cares, no one.





Keesha said:


> Clearly someone does


*Whenever* somebody makes a rash statement, someone else will correct them
That's *when *I make my observations

yer welcome


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## RadishRose (Sep 15, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> Why are busy bodies called grammer "Nazis"?


It's not grammer. It's grammar.


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## Camper6 (Sep 15, 2020)

Grammar and spelling observations show the level of education someone has received if they were lucky enough to make it through university especially if you are going into politics.

Or if you are interested enough to enhance your education by reading.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 16, 2020)

RadishRose said:


> It's not grammer. It's grammar.


I'm a Texan anwedoitdffrantfrumutherfolks


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## Ronni (Sep 16, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> Grammar and spelling observations show the level of education someone has received if they were lucky enough to make it through university especially if you are going into politics.
> 
> Or if you are interested enough to enhance your education by reading.


This is actually an interesting point. Back in Australia when I was in school there was no extra attention paid to the English language. I’d say the focus on it was mediocre at best.

Also back then, you could get on a fast track if you weren’t planning to go to university (college) and fully graduate high school at 16. Given that choice, plus incidentally when my birthday was in relation to the school year, I actually graduated at 15.

I had no interest in higher education, I just wanted to experience life. And I did! By the time I was 20 I’d lived on 3 continents , travelled, had all kinds of unique and fun experiences.

The one thing, the ONLY thing that contributes to my grammar, punctuation, spelling and vocabulary is reading. I read voraciously, with liberal use of a dictionary when I come upon a word I don’t know. I don’t know the name of every part of speech, and I can’t always tell you WHY a sentence construct is incorrect, just THAT it is.

I think that my love of the English language and my frustration when it isn’t used correctly (it’s like nails on a chalkboard to me ) is just something I was born with, certainly nothing I pursued or learned as a result of a higher education.


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## Camper6 (Sep 16, 2020)

Ronni said:


> This is actually an interesting point. Back in Australia when I was in school there was no extra attention paid to the English language. I’d say the focus on it was mediocre at best.
> 
> Also back then, you could get on a fast track if you weren’t planning to go to university (college) and fully graduate high school at 16. Given that choice, plus incidentally when my birthday was in relation to the school year, I actually graduated at 15.
> 
> ...


I'm the same way.  My son worked part time as a volunteer at a cable outlet.  They had a community bulletin board that would post notices on television.  The spelling was atrocious.
I told my son about it and his comment was "What difference does it make?".   I told him that it makes you look stupid.
And guess what?  He immediately took up the challenge and I would hear him phoning to get a message corrected.  
Yes it does grate on me as well.


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## Camper6 (Sep 16, 2020)

And then there were rules.

'i' before e, except after c

But there are exceptions.  How about "weird"?


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## Camper6 (Sep 16, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> No one cares, no one.


I care that you don't care.


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## Keesha (Sep 16, 2020)




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## JustBonee (Sep 16, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> I'm a Texan anwedoitdffrantfrumutherfolks



Speak for yourself.


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## Camper6 (Sep 16, 2020)

Bonnie said:


> Speak for yourself.


Can't speak.  Have to type. And spell it correctly. ☎


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## StarSong (Sep 16, 2020)

Sometimes when is appropriate, sometimes whenever.  
Whatever.


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## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 16, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> And then there were rules.
> 
> 'i' before e, except after c
> 
> But there are exceptions.  How about "weird"?


Finish it:
I before E, except after C, or when sounded as A, as in neighbor and weigh. (credit where credit is due, thank phonics for this PSA)

Which still doesn't explain them all. 'Weird', eh?

There are a few that bug me but I let them be. They're, There, and Their. Come on, this is elementary.

"They're taking their picnic over there." 'They're': A contraction of 'They are'. Their: Possessive, it belongs to them. There: A location.

Another is should of. It's not 'Should of', it's 'Should've', a contraction of 'should have'. "I should have done that sooner."


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## I'mnotdeadyet (Sep 16, 2020)

win231 said:


> Ronni, "Busybody" is one word.
> Gotcha!


More correctly, it's a closed compound word, meaning it's made up of two words and does not use a hyphen.


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## win231 (Sep 16, 2020)

Why do people say _"I could care less,"_ when they really mean,_ "I couldn't care less?"_


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## Camper6 (Sep 16, 2020)

I'mnotdeadyet said:


> Finish it:
> I before E, except after C, or when sounded as A, as in neighbor and weigh. (credit where credit is due, thank phonics for this PSA)
> 
> Which still doesn't explain them all. 'Weird', eh?
> ...


Gee I give up.  I knew how to spell neighbour (Br and Can.) from the word neigh as in horse.

weigh wouldn't be pronounced as weigh it it was spelled wiegh. That would be prounonced as  weeg or weef. 

When I get confused I type the whole thing out like they are instead of they're. cripes your only saving two strokes.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 16, 2020)

Camper6 said:


> I care that you don't care.


I don't care that you care that I don't care.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 16, 2020)

Bonnie said:


> Speak for yourself.


At east I'm legal.


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## fmdog44 (Sep 16, 2020)

Whenever whoever babbles about whatever it turns in to a  thread like this one.


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## Camper6 (Sep 16, 2020)

fmdog44 said:


> I don't care that you care that I don't care.


I knew that before I typed it. But you were wrong when you said that 'no one cares'.


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## Gaer (Sep 16, 2020)

Hey Ronni, Could you answer this?  I've always felt the word "that" is extraneous.
as in:  "How thankful I am that you are here."
or "How thankful I am, you are here."
Which is correct?  
I'm only asking Ronni, guys!


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## StarSong (Sep 16, 2020)

"That" is often extraneous, but the word often makes sentences clearer, particularly written sentences.  

Most people don't say, "How thankful I am, you are here." despite it being correct.  

The point of the format is anyone can respond.


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## Gaer (Sep 16, 2020)

StarSong said:


> "That" is often extraneous, but the word often makes sentences clearer, particularly written sentences.
> 
> Most people don't say, "How thankful I am, you are here." despite it being correct.
> 
> The point of the format is anyone can respond.


Thank you. That's what i thought.
I requested only her because the gentlemen on this thread don't seem to be aware their words reflect their level of consciousness and reveal their dignity, honor and character.

Maybe they were just trying to be humorous.


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## hellomimi (Sep 16, 2020)

win231 said:


> Why do people say _"I could care less,"_ when they really mean,_ "I couldn't care less?"_


Perhaps...truth is...they care?


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## Ronni (Sep 17, 2020)

Gaer said:


> Hey Ronni, Could you answer this?  I've always felt the word "that" is extraneous.
> as in:  "How thankful I am that you are here."
> or "How thankful I am, you are here."
> Which is correct?
> I'm only asking Ronni, guys!


What @StarSong said 

Basically you should use “that” if a sentence sounds awkward without it. When I’m in doubt I just include it. 

To decide whether you can leave “that” from a sentence, see how natural the sentence reads or sounds without it.

There are all kinds of rules about when to use it and when to not, having to do with subordinating conjunctions and dependent and independent clauses and other stuff. But personally that is less important to me. I’d rather break a “rule” to make what I’m talking about clear. I mean the whole POINT of using the english language is to communicate thoughts and ideas in a way that other people understand them, right?


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## Camper6 (Sep 17, 2020)

Gaer said:


> Thank you. That's what i thought.
> I requested only her because the gentlemen on this thread don't seem to be aware their words reflect their level of consciousness and reveal their dignity, honor and character.
> 
> Maybe they were just trying to be humorous.


The 'gentlemen' do that? I don't believe it.


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## Camper6 (Sep 17, 2020)

hellomimi said:


> Perhaps...truth is...they care?


They mean I could care less but I won't. Sometimes the meaning is left unsaid . That phrase in my estimation has to be the most corrected phrase in the wirld which is a better way of pronouncing world.


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