# Have you ever contemplated suicide?



## hypochondriac (Aug 11, 2019)

Please delete this thread if deemed to be innappropriate.
I have but never seriously. 
And I dont think it is anything to be ashamed of. To question the value of our life. Existential angst? Yeah cool language like this might give it undeserved legitimacy.
Should I change my username to Debbie Downer ?


----------



## rgp (Aug 11, 2019)

No I never have ... but you are right, it is nothing to be ashamed of if one has, or if one did, it is nothing shameful  to leave behind.

When one is done, they're done....The reasons are theirs & theirs alone.


----------



## hypochondriac (Aug 11, 2019)

And part of me does admire the person who just gets on with life. No questons about lifes meaning. just humbly accepts their situation without complaint.


----------



## hypochondriac (Aug 11, 2019)

low self esteem is a big contributing factor.
though of course escaping pain , real or imagined, is perhaps the main reason for feeling suicidal.
It becomes an option when othet solutions to our problems seem out of reach .
Im not promoting suicide here by the way. In my view it is healthy to talk openly about it. So we avoid it.


----------



## hypochondriac (Aug 11, 2019)

An idealistic personality is another contributor. Disappointment that life doesnt turn out perfect. Pragmatists are perhaps less likely to?


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 11, 2019)

Yes, and put in a couple of serious attempts, miracle I am still here. This is the norm with early onset long term  CPTSD. Most of us don’t make it out of our teens. For us, the reason behind suicidality is simple, human beings are not wired to exist with the memories we carry, or the level of anguish that comes with prolonged and severe trauma. Many of us never had a childhood, or an adolescence, just horror. It is possible to build a loving and productive life as an adult, but relapse is all but inevitable.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 11, 2019)

Never

Too hard (fun) trying to keep what's left


----------



## Lara (Aug 11, 2019)

Im sorry Shalimar and I'm proud of you for making the best of your life despite what you've dealt with. You are strong and brave.


----------



## Keesha (Aug 11, 2019)

Yes I have but don’t wish to talk about it.


----------



## C'est Moi (Aug 11, 2019)

No.


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 11, 2019)

Lara said:


> Im sorry Shalimar and I'm proud of you for making the best of your life despite what you've dealt with. You are strong and brave.


Thank you so much, Lara. Most of the time, I embrace gratitude for the ability to still be here. Also, using those gifts which came out of prolonged suffering as an offering of hope to others stuck in the pit, well, that is an ongoing miracle. Service saved, and continues to save me, I have been gifted with more awareness, empathy, and compassion than I would have thought possible. I am humbled, and often full of joy. I know what love is.


----------



## hypochondriac (Aug 11, 2019)

People who have had little or no trauma in their lives can still feel suicidal. I am just one example of that.  
The way we think can contribute. 
I believe genetics does play a part too. I am prone to oversensitivity and idealism.


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 11, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> People who have had little or no trauma in their lives can still feel suicidal. I am just one example of that.
> The way we think can contribute.
> I believe genetics does play a part too. I am prone to oversensitivity and idealism.


Absolutely. For example, it is estimated that 20% of the population is extremely sensitive. They feel things very deeply, are prone to burn out because they are so vulnerable to negativity, noise, anything intense. Should they also have a genetic predisposition to depression, suicidality increases accordingly.


----------



## Repondering (Aug 11, 2019)

I've contemplated it more times than I can ever possibly remember.  OK this is going to sound kind of weird, but having the option of deliberately ending my agony has itself been a means of coping with day after day of unrelenting unpleasantness.....I'd tell myself "....if I can't take any more, I can always make the final exit, but not yet, I can still get through the night and then tomorrow."   Well I'm still here and things are a lot less desperate.  Contentment is a glimmer on the horizon and things aren't really that bad anymore.  There's more to look forward to than there is to want to escape from.  If that makes any sense.


----------



## Shalimar (Aug 11, 2019)

It does. Often, we need such options in order to cope.


----------



## hypochondriac (Aug 11, 2019)

Shalimar said:


> Absolutely. For example, it is estimated that 20% of the population is extremely sensitive. They feel things very deeply, are prone to burn out because they are so vulnerable to negativity, noise, anything intense. Should they also have a genetic predisposition to depression, suicidality increases accordingly.


so that's why my career went down the plug hole!


----------



## hypochondriac (Aug 11, 2019)

I think if we can overcome the shame of admitting we feel or felt suicidal, then we are in some way helping to avoid actually doing it.


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 11, 2019)

Recently.  I am alone, lost and not even able to walk without my walker.   I'm searching for answers, but they have to come from within.


----------



## hypochondriac (Aug 11, 2019)

Repondering said:


> Well I'm still here and things are a lot less desperate.


That's why suicide watch counsellors make a contract with the suicidal. "if you can just try and hang on until the morning. You might feel a whole lot different about your life then. "
The thing is we cant really trust our mind, our thoughts, when we are under stress. We have to wait until we have a calmer mindset.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Aug 11, 2019)

No, thankfully I never have.  I have known a couple of people who did commit suicide though.


----------



## Warrigal (Aug 11, 2019)

I have not. When I brood on something my anger is directed outwards.
I have, however, entertained ideas of running away and disappearing into the Great Outback of this land. But not for a very long time.


----------



## fmdog44 (Aug 11, 2019)

Hell no!


----------



## Ruthanne (Aug 11, 2019)

Yes I do get the thoughts at times but quickly dismiss them telling myself I have to live to care for my pet family.


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 11, 2019)

Fmdog44......Good for you.  I hope your life is so great, your health holds and you are otherwise so lucky that you never feel what we lesser folks are confronted with.


----------



## win231 (Aug 11, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> low self esteem is a big contributing factor.
> though of course escaping pain , real or imagined, is perhaps the main reason for feeling suicidal.
> It becomes an option when othet solutions to our problems seem out of reach .
> Im not promoting suicide here by the way. In my view it is healthy to talk openly about it. So we avoid it.


I did some research on suicide after Robin Williams.  I was expecting to read about money problems, love life not going well, depression, etc. as motivating factors.  But the main motivating factor in most suicides is illness.  And that makes the most sense to me.


----------



## win231 (Aug 11, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> And part of me does admire the person who just gets on with life. No questons about lifes meaning. just humbly accepts their situation without complaint.


Me too.  I have a couple of friends with Cerebral Palsy (birth defect) who are my age who cherish each day as a gift - something I wouldn't put up with in their situation for very long.


----------



## hypochondriac (Aug 11, 2019)

win231 said:


> I did some research on suicide after Robin Williams.  I was expecting to read about money problems, love life not going well, depression, etc. as motivating factors.  But the main motivating factor in most suicides is illness.  And that makes the most sense to me.


not mental illness then?


----------



## Rosemarie (Aug 11, 2019)

Yes, sometimes life is just not worth the struggle. Thankfully, I hung on and then life changed. However, if my health broke down or I was diagnosed with cancer, I would certainly do it. I'm not ending my days in a state of indignity and pain.


----------



## Lara (Aug 12, 2019)

When you go off some meds cold turkey on your own, like Prozac, without tapering off under the care of a physician, you might experience serious suicidal thoughts.

We've all lived a long time and everyone seems very smart here so everyone probably knows this already, however I feel compelled to mention it in case someone slipped through the cracks. It's important.


----------



## Fyrefox (Aug 12, 2019)

Yes.  When my fiancée was killed by a drunken driver over four decades ago, I didn't have a lot to live for anymore.  It was only when someone asked me had the situation been reversed what would I have wished for her that I realized I'd want for her to go on.  Living in that belief enabled me to continue and gradually rebuild my life and assign new meaning to it.  That doesn't mean that I haven't had the "what ifs" and thought of her every day, however...


----------



## 911 (Aug 12, 2019)

I have investigated about 5 or 6 suicides. In the cases that I can recall, the suicides were achieved by overdose of  pain pills or sleeping pills, two by gun and one by jumping into the river. As it is even in accidents, contacting the next of kin is extremely hard. The first question they ask is, "Why?" We tell them that we were hoping they would be able to tell us. 

The worse part of any suicide for those they leave behind is when they do not leave any message. Not knowing seems to be very painful and makes the act that much more hurtful to their survivors. 

One psychiatrist told us that suicide is a very cowardly and selfish act. Do you believe that? I would think someone would have to be pretty brave to take their own life, especially jumping off of a bridge or even putting a gun to one's own head. Taking pills and going to sleep, maybe not so much.


----------



## norman (Aug 12, 2019)

I have read that the thought crosses every mind at times of stress, I have had a lot of family stress, financial stress, and every type of stress you could think of and some were my own doing ( a finger pointing directly in my direction) but have always had persons in my life that need me so it is out of question, ( I think God put them there to keep me in line )  but when they say Norman it is time for you to get your Jammies you are going to the nursing home, Hell yes I would, but Sweeties mom spent 10 years in a nursing home and loved it.  To her it was like a club...


----------



## Ronni (Aug 12, 2019)

I have. 

During the very worst of the times with my ex when I had no hope of ever escaping, I thought about it constantly. The only thing that stopped me was that I would be leaving my kids with the monster. 

Every night though I would go to bed and pray to a God i no longer believed in that I just would not wake up. Please don’t let me wake up. That way my kids couldn’t blame me for leaving them. 

So grateful now that I didn’t have the courage then.


----------



## Sunny (Aug 12, 2019)

No, never.

On Suicide
By Dorothy Parker

Razors pain you,
Rivers are damp,
Acids stain you,
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful,
Nooses give,
Gas smells awful.
You might as well live.


----------



## toffee (Aug 12, 2019)

not yet -!


----------



## win231 (Aug 12, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> not mental illness then?


No.  According to reports, he had a condition called "Lewy Body Syndrome" - a neurological disorder.  But, of course any physical illness can cause depression.


----------



## win231 (Aug 12, 2019)

911 said:


> I have investigated about 5 or 6 suicides. In the cases that I can recall, the suicides were achieved by overdose of  pain pills or sleeping pills, two by gun and one by jumping into the river. As it is even in accidents, contacting the next of kin is extremely hard. The first question they ask is, "Why?" We tell them that we were hoping they would be able to tell us.
> 
> The worse part of any suicide for those they leave behind is when they do not leave any message. Not knowing seems to be very painful and makes the act that much more hurtful to their survivors.
> 
> One psychiatrist told us that suicide is a very cowardly and selfish act. Do you believe that? I would think someone would have to be pretty brave to take their own life, especially jumping off of a bridge or even putting a gun to one's own head. Taking pills and going to sleep, maybe not so much.


I've heard people say "Suicide is a cowardly & selfish act."  Funny how people who say that have never experienced a severe illness or felt constant unrelenting pain.  The "I'm so courageous, I can handle anything" syndrome.


----------



## Liberty (Aug 12, 2019)

The one that really got us was Anthony Bourdain!  And by hanging - no drugs and just a trace of alcohol in his system.


----------



## Peachy (Aug 12, 2019)

Yes


----------



## win231 (Aug 12, 2019)

Liberty said:


> The one that really got us was Anthony Bourdain!  And by hanging - no drugs and just a trace of alcohol in his system.


I don't know if Robin Williams had any drugs or alcohol in his system, but an illness that causes uncontrollable movements can be pretty devastating.
I do suspect one thing.  The method & place he chose tells me he may have wanted to "get back" at his wife for something.  He didn't go somewhere in private & do it where the police (who are accustomed to it) would find him; he did it where he knew his wife would find him.


----------



## Pappy (Aug 12, 2019)

No, never. Don’t know how I’ll feel if my wife goes before me, but right now, I would not consider it.


----------



## Manatee (Aug 12, 2019)

Suicide should be thought through very carefully.  It is extremely permanent.  

Thought should be given to those who must deal with the aftermath.  Using a shotgun is incredibly messy and inconsiderate.


----------



## Leann (Aug 12, 2019)

I don't think I've ever spoken about this to anyone but yes, I thought about it two times in my life. Once when I was a teenager growing up in a hellish home where arguing, degrading comments and physical violence was the norm and then later when my then-husband pretty much created a similar environment in our marital home. I was too much of a coward to act on my thoughts but sometimes the pain was so deep, it seemed like the only way out was to die. I am a much-changed woman now, thankfully, but I do remember those very dark times.


----------



## win231 (Aug 12, 2019)

Manatee said:


> Suicide should be thought through very carefully.  It is extremely permanent.
> 
> Thought should be given to those who must deal with the aftermath.  Using a shotgun is incredibly messy and inconsiderate.


Well, I had to LOL (even though it's not a funny topic).  My sense of humor!   You're right about a shotgun.  If that's all I had, I'd go in the back yard & wrap myself up in a thick blanket to minimize the...........


----------



## win231 (Aug 12, 2019)

Leann said:


> I don't think I've ever spoken about this to anyone but yes, I thought about it two times in my life. Once when I was a teenager growing up in a hellish home where arguing, degrading comments and physical violence was the norm and then later when my then-husband pretty much created a similar environment in our marital home. I was too much of a coward to act on my thoughts but sometimes the pain was so deep, it seemed like the only way out was to die. I am a much-changed woman now, thankfully, but I do remember those very dark times.


You might check my post in:                               
*Can You Love and Respect Your Parents and Not Have A Close Relationship With Them?*
"And, parents who pass the abuse along into their own families (under the guise of "discipline" or "being strict") fail to realize the type of kids they're bringing up & what type of adults they will become.
 I dated several women who had such parents - always expecting me to hurt them, always expecting the worst from me, regardless of how well I treated them or how much I respected them.  My ex wife fit that perfectly - always accusing me or cheating, "looking," etc.  Funny - SHE's the one who cheated & destroyed the marriage.  * And such women frequently choose men who are like their abusive parents because that's what they're accustomed to & abuse becomes "normal" in their minds. * And an abusive childhood usually results in adults with low self esteem, so when their boyfriend/husband is abusive, they feel they deserve it....after all, they've had many years of thinking, "If I wasn't such a bad kid, my parents wouldn't have to be so mean to me."


----------



## Keesha (Aug 12, 2019)

Lara said:


> When you go off some meds cold turkey on your own, like Prozac, without tapering off under the care of a physician, you might experience serious suicidal thoughts.
> 
> We've all lived a long time and everyone seems very smart here so everyone probably knows this already, however I feel compelled to mention it in case someone slipped through the cracks. It's important.


Also when you go on some meds like Prozac one of the main side effects are suicidal thoughts. In fact many anti depressant drugs have suicidal thoughts as side effects. Just thought I’d mention that  too.


----------



## win231 (Aug 12, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Also when you go on some meds like Prozac one of the main side effects are suicidal thoughts. In fact many anti depressant drugs have suicidal thoughts as side effects. Just thought I’d mention that  too.


They have added another word to the warning about suicidal thoughts.  "Homicidal Thoughts."


----------



## Pecos (Aug 12, 2019)

No, but I have known people who did it and I still don' understand why even after reflecting at length on the adversities they were dealing with. Earlier this year I had to go through nine weeks of radiation treatment for prostrate cancer. At times the side effects were very unpleasant. One of the men going through the treatment dropped out which greatly saddened the rest of us. Who knows what else he was dealing with in his life. Our attempts to cheer him up failed.


----------



## Keesha (Aug 12, 2019)

Deleted


----------



## win231 (Aug 12, 2019)

Pecos said:


> No, but I have known people who did it and I still don' understand why even after reflecting at length on the adversities they were dealing with. Earlier this year I had to go through nine weeks of radiation treatment for prostrate cancer. At times the side effects were very unpleasant. One of the men going through the treatment dropped out which greatly saddened the rest of us. Who knows what else he was dealing with in his life. Our attempts to cheer him up failed.


You "don't understand why" they committed suicide because you probably don't have the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes.  And, medical issues are not the same for everyone, even though they have the same name.


----------



## Linda (Aug 12, 2019)

No I haven't.


----------



## Lara (Aug 13, 2019)

This is dark but a reality that we can't ignore: I can't imagine the fear and helplessness regarding someone who has attempted suicide and then has second thoughts in their final moments that are irreversible. I've heard or read that we experience a time of clarity in our final hours. But if your suicide attempt is successful enough then it will be too late to change your course.

Can a person who has suicidal thoughts be able to realize that before attempting suicide?
Or are they too sure all is hopeless? I guess the latter


----------



## Ronni (Aug 13, 2019)

win231 said:


> You "don't understand why" they committed suicide because you probably don't have the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes.


I don’t  think that’s a fair statement, @win231 You’re talking about empathy, (walking in someone else’s shoes, feeling what they feel) and though I’m a highly empathetic person, there are plenty of decisions people make/actions they take that I simply cannot fathom, in spite of my empathetic nature. 

Mass shootings are a good example of that. There is no way I will ever understand the mindset that compels a shooter to that, no matter how empathetic I am. 

I don’t understand why Anthony Bourdain  committed suicide as another example,  other than the intellectual knowledge that depressed people sometimes do. But the specifics of his life give me few insight about why he was depressed ..he seemed to have everything goin for him.


----------



## Uptosnuff (Aug 13, 2019)

I have not seriously contemplated suicide. And I'm beginning to think I am maybe the exception.  I have never had a terminal serious illness, though, either.


----------



## fuzzybuddy (Aug 13, 2019)

Yes. For about 6 months, I was in and out of hospitals. At my lowest point, I was hospitalized and I was not getting any better-only worse. Much worse. I was in Intensive Care. for a long time. I had a large open area on my back, the bone was exposed. The pain was excruciating. They had to turn me in bed, side to side, every 4 hours.  Before they could move me, I had to have  shot of pain med, via the IVs in my neck. I just wanted to be left alone to die. I wanted it to end.  I figured out how to use my electric bed to kill myself. I was too weak to do it. I didn't tell anybody how I planned to do it-I didn't want to be stopped, but I told everybody that I was going to kill myself. As a Psych Nurse, I was amazed by suicidal patients- they always admitted to wanting to kill themselves. I think it's because you've made the decision to act. You've crossed that line.  You are totally committed to killing yourself. The only thing left to do is the actual deed, which strangely doesn't feel like a big deal. Thankfully that has passed. Well, now, I'm out of the hospital and feeling a lot better, with no suicidal ideation.


----------



## Lara (Aug 13, 2019)

Ronni said:


> Mass shootings...There is no way I will ever understand the mindset that compels a shooter to that, no matter how empathetic I am...I don’t understand why Anthony Bourdain  committed suicide as another example,  other than the intellectual knowledge that depressed people sometimes do. But the specifics of his life give me few insight about why he was depressed ..he seemed to have everything goin for him.


@Ronni I see a variety of reasons these mass shooters do what they do. To name a few, military PTSD, Social Rejection (Loners), addiction to mind-altering Drugs laced with bad stuff, mind-altering violent video game obsessions, sociopathic and psychopathic tendencies of course, and ease of which to steal or buy used weapons. In Texas and Ohio, it's legal to buy these high-powered firearms... the type of military-style rifles that are often used in mass shootings.

I wasn't a follower of Anthony Bourdain but when he made suicide headlines I checked out one of his shows that took place in Washington DC. (link below). Eerily enough, he had a "light-hearted" hypothetical conversation that hinted of suicide. He was talking to a retired Washington CIA Spy as they sat eating burgers at a counter after visiting a museum of weapons that CIA spies used to kill people in different ways. It had nothing to do with food which I found confusing except that Julia Childs was a small part of the museum display since she was a spy.

It was super odd that I had just heard of Bourdain's suicide when the 2 men have this conversation over lunch that ended in the spy suggesting a solution for Bourdain to "end it all" as they laughed jokingly. Bourdian actually said, "What. So you think I should get a small apartment in Clearwater FL?" hinting at hypothetically ending his life there. But joking. Then they leave and the former spy shows him how to do a "Dead Drop" into a street mailbox. Here's the link to the whole show. I felt like maybe Bourdain was involved in some sort of "secrets about to be exposed" since it was such a focus of interest in that episode instead of food. But that was only me overthinking...perhaps.

The conversation begins at 13:30 and ends at the 16 minute mark


----------



## Trade (Aug 13, 2019)

Never have. But if I got so messed up in an accident or from an illness that all I had to look forward to was pain and suffering I think I might. 

I did write a poem about suicide in Mrs. Ewart's creative writing class in my senior year of High School. And I still have a copy of it because we made up a pamphlet of selected class writings at the end of the year and I still have that. I've read them later in life and realized that like most of that class, my writing pretty much sucked. 

Anyway, here's that poem. 

_"I thought about it for a while
The reasoning seemed sound
Near my wretched body
This sad note to be found
The only thing, it makes me sick
To think I am so gross
I think I'll put it off a while
The way I do with everything"_ 

Like I said, my writing sucked. 

But I got straight B's in the course. 
Mrs. Ewart set a pretty low bar. _



_


----------



## StarSong (Aug 13, 2019)

Actually Trade, I think your poem is well written and quite haunting.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 13, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Actually Trade, I think your poem is well written and quite haunting


True

I'm not so into poems
But I really like this one


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 13, 2019)

Lara said:


> I felt like maybe Bourdain was involved in some sort of "secrets about to be exposed" since it was such a focus of interest in that episode instead of food. But that was only me overthinking...perhaps.


Interesting
At least that's something
Bourdain's end up has greatly puzzled me


Really liked his show


----------



## StarSong (Aug 13, 2019)

I read all his books and was a fairly regular viewer of his shows.  Anthony Bourdain was a man who was endlessly battling with his demons.  
Sadly, it appeared that he became tired of fighting and one night the demons prevailed.


----------



## chic (Aug 14, 2019)

Yes I do think about it. Several immediate family members have died horribly of various forms of cancer. Some pleaded for death. It's a horror to watch. How much more so to experience? Those of my family who remain have actually had a convo about our "plan" ie. exit plan. It may sound weird to some, but not for us, and I'm actually glad to be able to talk to someone about something as serious as this. Nobody wants to suffer and be helpless. We treat our animals better. That's all I guess.


----------



## Lara (Aug 14, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> Interesting. At least that's something. Bourdain's end up has greatly puzzled me...


I read an article in Psychology Today that caused me to abandon my theory in post#56. I now think that was just some crazy coincidence.

The article was saying that Anthony Bourdain fell deeply in love with his girlfriend from Paris to the point of not focusing anymore on the love of others, like his daughter. He told people that Paris was a great place to be in love and was falling more in love with the city of Paris as well.

Meanwhile, his girlfriend was cavorting around Paris with a photographer while Bourdain was in another country shooting a show.  His GF and her photographer "friend" were both in many of the pics hugging, etc. Someone sent him one or more pics. Also were dancing together etc. He told his friend at dinner and the next morning didn't show up for breakfast.

His girlfriend was questioned and said they had an open relationship and wasnt her fault but rather ABourdain's choice.


----------



## Judycat (Aug 14, 2019)

My daughter hung herself. She suffered from bi-polar disorder for ten years. That's about the maximum these sufferers make it with her bi-polar type. She was an intelligent girl who had herself under the care of doctors and psychiatrists and psychologists but they couldn't save her. It was very difficult for her because she'd be doing fine then everything became too loud, too bright, too much that she would just shut down for months. Holding down a steady job was impossible. When the mental disorder began to affect her body, causing physical pain on top of the mental anguish, I think that's when she decided she had had enough.  Most everyone she knew, but of course our family, had no idea she suffered from a mental disorder. Please be kind to others, you really never know what they are going through.  Thank you.


----------



## StarSong (Aug 14, 2019)

I Googled the article you mentioned, Lara, but won't add a link here because I think it's pure tripe.  The writer, Stanton Peele, Ph.D., makes his money lecturing and writing books on addictions.  He saw Bourdain as someone addicted to love.  No surprise there.  To a hammer everything looks like a nail.  

My take is that it was incredibly unprofessional and irresponsible for a psychologist to publicly speculate why Anthony Bourdain killed himself, and for Psychology Today to publish it. Peele never met AB nor treated him, and the details supporting his theories came to him second or third hand, including such highly reliable, unimpeachable sources as _People Magazine_.

This article is emblematic of the difficulty we have with suicides. We try to explain to ourselves that which is often unexplainable, even to the very person who decides to take his/her own life. 

I remember all the so-called experts who did the same with Robin Williams, then backpedaled and tried to stuff the words back into their mouths when the autopsy proved he was suffering with Lewy Body Disease.


----------



## charry (Aug 14, 2019)

I wouldnt say anyway......i dont want to be carted away by the men in white coats with straight jackets....


----------



## Lara (Aug 14, 2019)

Judycat, I'm so sorry to hear your sad news. You were brave to share your story. 
Thank you for your wise advice in your last sentence.
StarSong, thank you for your insight. We all are searching for answers and no one really knows.


----------



## AnnieA (Aug 14, 2019)

Judycat said:


> My daughter hung herself. She suffered from bi-polar disorder for ten years. That's about the maximum these sufferers make it with her bi-polar type. She was an intelligent girl who had herself under the care of doctors and psychiatrists and psychologists but they couldn't save her. It was very difficult for her because she'd be doing fine then everything became too loud, too bright, too much that she would just shut down for months. Holding down a steady job was impossible. When the mental disorder began to affect her body, causing physical pain on top of the mental anguish, I think that's when she decided she had had enough.  Most everyone she knew, but of course our family, had no idea she suffered from a mental disorder. Please be kind to others, you really never know what they are going through.  Thank you.



So sorry to hear this.  At a church I once attended, there was a similar situation.  Our pastor handled it so well.  He phrased the news of her passing just as he would a death from any other life threatening illness. Something like ...."We are sad to have lost X after a prolonged struggle with depression.  She fought her illness valiantly for many years before finally succumbing to it this week."    It was the most comforting thing I think a family could hear.  I have never believed that those who commit suicide are damned to hell like some fundamentalist do.  I have always believed God's grace is bigger than anything we can do other than flat out rejecting him and his grace.


----------



## rgp (Aug 14, 2019)

Lara said:


> I read an article in Psychology Today that caused me to abandon my theory in post#56. I now think that was just some crazy coincidence.
> 
> The article was saying that Anthony Bourdain fell deeply in love with his girlfriend from Paris to the point of not focusing anymore on the love of others, like his daughter. He told people that Paris was a great place to be in love and was falling more in love with the city of Paris as well.
> 
> ...




  I'll likely catch allot of flack for this but ..... Here goes.

If the above is accurate it furthers my view / opinion on love . I truly think some folks just take it too damn far / to damn seriously .

Look at the divorce rate & how it is, look a the marriage rate & how it has dropped. Most of this has happened since in the last 50? years people have discovered that they do not *need* a spouse. It is perfectly OK for a man & or a woman to live their lives completely with out a spouse, even an S.O.

When people [the gender does not matter] become so immersed in the idea of* being in love *..... that's when trouble begins. I question sometimes, are/were they in-love with that person ? or in-love with _being in-love_? Remember the song ...[You're nobody till somebody loves you] ? One of the worst songs ever written, it implies just what the title states. Yes I now, it's only a song but ..... too some, songs are the holly-grail of life. Just like soap-operas , movies, etc. They really believe that they should follow the example set forth by theses _*entertainments. *_They have a hard time separating actual life from fictional life, and when they cannot achieve what they want for themselves they just start to unravel . They cannot grasp that they are JUST FINE as they are, just being THEMSELVES. And as such they start heading down hill.

Love / being in love, is way over hyped and has for years caused allot of pain to many,many people.

IMO if a person wants a spouse, an S.O. fine ..... go pick one ..... but do not invest your life, your very being in that person. They're not worth it, or at the very least may not be ........... we never know what is in their mind & heart ..... [yes i know the heart is a muscle that pumps blood.] it has nothing to do with emotion .....the above is just a saying. But you get my meaning.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 14, 2019)

rgp said:


> I'll likely catch allot of flack for this but ..... Here goes.


rgp
THAT, sir, was some thinking
I may not agree with some of it, but it's definitely food for thought
.....and I'm still trying to digest it all


----------



## AnnieA (Aug 14, 2019)

rgp said:


> I'll likely catch allot of flack for this but ..... Here goes.
> 
> If the above is accurate it furthers my view / opinion on love . I truly think some folks just take it too damn far / to damn seriously .
> 
> ...


 
Agree with  a lot of what you say, but believe you're using the word love in some cases for infatuation and/or obsession, neither of which is love.


----------



## rgp (Aug 14, 2019)

AnnieA said:


> Agree with  a lot of what you say, but believe you're using the word love in some cases for infatuation and/or obsession, neither of which is love.




 Exactly my point !

 I'm just not sure there is love ? What is it ? I believe that it may exist between parents/children....but question that it does elsewhere?


----------



## Olivia (Aug 14, 2019)

Loving someone is being concerned for them at least equal to or more than being concerned about yourself. And I don't mean saving someone from drowning or other life-threatening events, but concerned about the whole person. That's love to me. And I mean that  not just for parent and child, but also for any SO's in your life.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 14, 2019)

rgp said:


> I'm just not sure there is love ? What is it ?



There is
It’s much deeper than feelings, emotions

It’s knowing, without question, you’d give your life for that person
Dying, yes, but I’m talking a life of dedication

Not servitude
Mutual dedication

Caring so deeply, you both know each other’s faults so well
…and see thru them

Loving to be together

Easy with being apart
But glad when you return

Knowing you love each other when yer both mad
Making up

Laughing together…. at life

Enjoying going places together…even if it’s just getting the oil changed on yer car

Sitting across from each other in a café booth
Enjoying the view

Thinking of them out of the blue, striking you to the core how so very much you adore that person
Dropping everything, going in, pulling her away from her dishes… and telling her

Holding each other close
Sending a rush of memories….fifty years ago


----------



## rgp (Aug 15, 2019)

Olivia said:


> Loving someone is being concerned for them at least equal to or more than being concerned about yourself. And I don't mean saving someone from drowning or other life-threatening events, but concerned about the whole person. That's love to me. And I mean that  not just for parent and child, but also for any SO's in your life.




 OK, I think you may be right, matter of fact I agree. But I also think it is so rare, that i do question it's very existence .

 It sure seems to go all to hell when divorce rears it's ugly head. Or often times when temptation comes along. Hence my opinion of rare.


----------



## rgp (Aug 15, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> There is
> It’s much deeper than feelings, emotions
> 
> It’s knowing, without question, you’d give your life for that person
> ...




 Not to cut you short but .... read my reply to Olivia as it is basically the same too you.

 What you suggest/propose, is IMO idyllic and again causes me to think it oh so rare.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 15, 2019)

rgp said:


> What you suggest/propose, is IMO idyllic and again causes me to think it oh so rare


It may very well be
Don't know
Most our friends are couples that seem to have it really together in the love dept
Then again, we don't care to have all that many friends

But, it happens

Worth seeking

Not forcing, but cognizant when it happens

A prize of immeasurable value


----------



## StarSong (Aug 15, 2019)

Not as rare as RGP might think.  Probably not as common as Gary might hope.  There are plenty of very loving, supportive, long-term marriages out there though.  I'm blessed to be in one as are several of my friends.


----------



## Keesha (Aug 15, 2019)

Ronni said:


> I don’t  think that’s a fair statement, @win231 You’re talking about empathy, (walking in someone else’s shoes, feeling what they feel) and though I’m a highly empathetic person, there are plenty of decisions people make/actions they take that I simply cannot fathom, in spite of my empathetic nature.
> 
> Mass shootings are a good example of that. There is no way I will ever understand the mindset that compels a shooter to that, no matter how empathetic I am.
> 
> I don’t understand why Anthony Bourdain  committed suicide as another example,  other than the intellectual knowledge that depressed people sometimes do. But the specifics of his life give me few insight about why he was depressed ..he seemed to have everything goin for him.


Absolutely right Ronni.
I believe that when people feel these feelings of wanting to commit suicide, their minds are somewhat fractured and not working correctly.

Unless a person can experience that same fractured mentality, and have an insight into the things they perceive as problems, they can’t possibly put themselves in their shoes.

I think it’s a REALLY good thing that most people can’t relate to the master minds of mass shooters.

Perhaps the closest thing the average person can get to is if they have experienced suicidal thoughts but like everything else, individual perception is as unique as each snowflake.

I think Ronni has incredible empathy for mankind.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 15, 2019)

Doubt I'll ever entertain suicidal thoughts.
Even if I lost my lady.

I'd just be, oh what's the word......ah, yes....empty...I'd be empty


----------



## rgp (Aug 15, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> Doubt I'll ever entertain suicidal thoughts.
> Even if I lost my lady.
> 
> I'd just be, oh what's the word......ah, yes....empty...I'd be empty




 Hopefully only for a bit? Again, basing our existence , our being on someone else's very existence/being, is IMO a bad thing. Lick yer wounds and go on with yer own life no ?

If [we] have it in us to have these feelings of [love] for one person? We have it in [us] to have the same feelings for another no ? Now, finding another that is worthy of those feelings, is a whole nother thing altogether......


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 15, 2019)

rgp said:


> *Hopefully only for a bit?* Again, basing our existence , our being on someone else's very existence/being, is IMO a bad thing. Lick yer wounds and go on with yer own life no ?
> 
> If [we] have it in us to have these feelings of [love] for one person? We have it in [us] to have the same feelings for another no ? Now, finding another that is worthy of those feelings, is a whole nother thing altogether......


Good words

Yeah, I can't be down for long
It's just not in me

I'd never press for another mate
Or rush into things
But, if it happened, I'd surely not deny myself


----------



## chic (Aug 15, 2019)

No one here is an existentialist then?


----------



## Keesha (Aug 15, 2019)

chic said:


> No one here is an existentialist then?


I had to look up the meaning. 

Existentialists believe life is intrinsically meaningless and an individual must work to bring meaning or purpose into their lives. 

Well I’m certainly not. In the stillness within myself I find meaning beyond my own self importance therefore cannot possibly believe life is intrinsically meaningless. 

I believe life has far more meaning than humanity with ever  realize in our physical existence however I also believe that humans thrive once they discover their own purpose for life and it’s all uniquely as individual as we are.


----------



## Keesha (Aug 15, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Not as rare as RGP might think.  Probably not as common as Gary might hope.  There are plenty of very loving, supportive, long-term marriages out there though.  I'm blessed to be in one as are several of my friends.


I agree. There most definitely are people who love and love deeply. These people are loyal and devoted to their loved one and would die for them. It’s beyond chivalry. I’m also blessed for the ability to love deeply and be loved deeply. It’s, by far, life’s greatest gifts and joys.


----------



## Lara (Aug 16, 2019)

(spoiler alert if you plan to watch "Patch Adams" movie)
Robin Williams, who committed suicide in real life , starred in a movie called "Patch Adams". It was a true story of the real Hunter Patch Adams. Patch is suicidal and admits himself to a mental institution. Once there, he finds that using humor, rather than doctor-centered psychotherapy, better helps his fellow patients and provides him with a new purpose in life...to open a free hospital that uses humor as a part of the healing therapy.

In medical school and in the new unconventional clinic Patch starts, his friendship with Carin turns to romance, but she struggles with having been molested as a child. Patch encourages her to continue helping others. She takes on a patient who  then murders Carin and he commits suicide. Patch is guilt-ridden. But something beautiful happens in the story that revive's Patch's spirit and moves ahead with his unconventional hospital endeavor...Gesundheit! Institute in her memory.

Patch Adams believes you must heal the spirit as well as the body and finally wins approval to continue on despite those who tried to shut him down.

I know there are many actors who throw themselves into a dark roll and never get out despite on-going therapy. Makes me wonder.


----------



## Trade (Aug 16, 2019)

Keesha said:


> I had to look up the meaning.
> 
> Existentialists believe life is intrinsically meaningless and an individual must work to bring meaning or purpose into their lives.



I was just about to google it myself but then I saw your post, so now I don't have to!

So thanks! 

Let's see. I can go along with the first part about life being meaningless, but I don't like the part about having to work.

Can't we just chill out and do fun stuff instead?


----------



## Keesha (Aug 16, 2019)

Trade said:


> I was just about to google it myself but then I saw your post, so now I don't have to!
> 
> So thanks!
> 
> ...


You’re most welcome 

Since we all have ‘freedom of choice’ you don’t have to work. You might be homeless and living on the street but ‘hey’ it could be fun.


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 16, 2019)

Judycat said:


> My daughter hung herself. She suffered from bi-polar disorder for ten years. That's about the maximum these sufferers make it with her bi-polar type. She was an intelligent girl who had herself under the care of doctors and psychiatrists and psychologists but they couldn't save her. It was very difficult for her because she'd be doing fine then everything became too loud, too bright, too much that she would just shut down for months. Holding down a steady job was impossible. When the mental disorder began to affect her body, causing physical pain on top of the mental anguish, I think that's when she decided she had had enough.  Most everyone she knew, but of course our family, had no idea she suffered from a mental disorder. Please be kind to others, you really never know what they are going through.  Thank you.


Oh Judycat I'm so sorry that your daughter died in such a tragic way for her and all of you as a family !!  My mother took her own life when I was a teenager , and my daughter's step brother hung himself just a few years ago , so I know what it feels like... the pain is worse than any physical pain!!


----------



## hypochondriac (Aug 17, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> Existential


this word was in my first post. yet no questions asked as to its meaning


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 18, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> this word was in my first post. yet no questions asked as to its meaning


 I would imagine that it's because everyone _knows_ what it means....


----------



## hypochondriac (Aug 18, 2019)

hollydolly said:


> I would imagine that it's because everyone _knows_ what it means....


check back a few posts holly


----------



## hollydolly (Aug 18, 2019)

hypochondriac said:


> check back a few posts holly


 I shouldn't post when I'm doing other things at the same time...


----------



## chic (Aug 18, 2019)

Existentialists feel that the world is essentially hostile and trying is futile so why bother with anything because we all just die anyway. (You can tell I'm having a rough year, right?)


----------



## AZ Jim (Aug 18, 2019)

Gary O' said:


> Doubt I'll ever entertain suicidal thoughts.
> Even if I lost my lady.
> 
> I'd just be, oh what's the word......ah, yes....empty...I'd be empty


Gary, with respect you never know until confronted by actual fact.  As I held the love of my lifes hand why she was dying I had begun to dwell upon what I would do without her.  It has been horrible and yes I have considered  suicide.  The jury is still out with what becomes of me.  Being alone, disabled I am tested daily.  I pray for strength every day.


----------



## win231 (Aug 18, 2019)

AZ Jim said:


> Gary, with respect you never know until confronted by actual fact.  As I held the love of my lifes hand why she was dying I had begun to dwell upon what I would do without her.  It has been horrible and yes I have considered  suicide.  The jury is still out with what becomes of me.  Being alone, disabled I am tested daily.  I pray for strength every day.


So true!  It's almost amusing how some people are eager to say what they would do - in a situation they've never been in.


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 18, 2019)

AZ Jim said:


> Gary, with respect you never know until confronted by actual fact. As I held the love of my lifes hand why she was dying I had begun to dwell upon what I would do without her. It has been horrible and yes I have considered suicide. The jury is still out with what becomes of me. Being alone, disabled I am tested daily. *I pray for strength every day*.



I hear you, Sir Jim

One never truly knows 'til it happens

Gotta be a daily thing...yessir

I follow yer thoughts, posts, with great interest


----------



## Gary O' (Aug 18, 2019)

win231 said:


> It's almost amusing how some people are eager to say what they would do - in a situation they've never been in


Then again some of us, that think they know what they would do, have been tested in like situations
Immeasurable loss comes in many forms


----------



## Llynn (Aug 18, 2019)

Suicide? Not for me... I want to stick around and see what the "H-E-Double hockey sticks" happens next.

Anybody besides me like Dorothy Parker?
_Razors pain you,_
_Rivers are damp,
Acids stain you,
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful,
Nooses give,
Gas smells awful.
You might as well live.” 

_


----------



## drifter (Aug 18, 2019)

Of course not. I've got everything going for me and then some.


----------

