# 2 Horses Die After Four Races At The Preakness Stakes



## WhatInThe (May 21, 2016)

After four races with more to go 2 horse have died. One died and the other had to euthanized. All so gamblers can bet and people can be entertained.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ter-winning-first-race-of-preakness-saturday/


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## Guitarist (May 21, 2016)

Hmm .. the NBC commentators haven't mentioned that.  

Just read about the two on another forum.  Very grim start to a gloomy day.  

But as to your comment about running them just so people can gamble -- yes, horses can die racing.  They can also die out in their pastures, or colicking in their stalls.  So don't be so quick to condemn racing and racegoers.  Yes, remember Barbaro and Eight Belles, and then remember "Teddy" O'Connor and Zenyatta's baby girl.

And all the pregnant dogs and cats dumped by the side of the road.  People don't bet on them.

Oh, and I forgot about all the aborted human babies.


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## WhatInThe (May 21, 2016)

Talking about forcing an animal to run I'm seeing a disturbing trend with some runner dog owners who literally drag their dog with them on a leash. Yes running is good for you or a dog but dogs weren't ment to run long distances on concrete and/or asphalt surfaces. Dogs and a lot of other animals run or sprint towards/after their pray or out of fear in the wild on grass or dirt. A runner or person can buy a new pair of sneaks if something wears out but a dog can't by new paws or joints. Running human style for the average dog in an urban environment is not healthy giving it a RMIs or repetitive motion injuries.


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## Falcon (May 21, 2016)

I know they like to run in the wild but not in a race where they are full of chemicals.

There's too much money involved in the whole "sport".

The big gamblers couldn't care less if a horse dies.


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## Guitarist (May 21, 2016)

Good points, What.  Dogs in the wild trot when they're traveling long distances, they don't canter like so many who are on leashes with their running owners.  

I remember seeing a "jogger" years ago who had her dog out on a leash, the poor dog stopped for a poop and the human kept jogging in place the whole time.  I thought, "Someone ought to put you on a leash next time you go to the bathroom and stand there jiggling the leash and jerking your neck while you're trying to poop!"  

I love watching beautiful horses do things they are good at and love doing.  

If they don't love running, their owners won't keep sending them out, so those out racing are doing it because they want to.


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## WhatInThe (May 21, 2016)

I'm sure many owners and fans don't want to see the animal hurt or die but the business of horse racing/betting attracts a lot of unsavory characters and unethical behavior. If an athlete cheats they chose to take steroids, pain killers etc, a horse does not. An athlete can tell the coach he's injured even though not visable a horse cannot. Right now PETA is screaming for the immediate release of those horses medical records.

I get they look for the runner in a horse. Just can't take any horse to race. Even a lot of human athletes with a lot of raw talent for their sport get injured or really don't like or appreciate it. It takes a person who really knows horses/their horse and not horse racing to hopefully figure that out. I think the non experts or those that have expert knowledge of a particular horse are probably ignored far too often.


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## Guitarist (May 21, 2016)

I hate to see the baby horses go down and die too.  It made me stop watching any races for years back in the '80s.  I don't know what started me again, probably having a horse to ride again and hanging out with horse people and meeting lots of OTTBs who had either been retired early because they weren't fast enough, didn't want to run enough, or for whatever reasons (maybe their owners just couldn't afford it any longer).  I knew a couple of Northern Dancer descendants, but unlike their ancestor they weren't famous or even big stakes racers.  One of the coolest was meeting a Man o' War descendant -- Man o' War wasn't as prolific a sire as he could have been as his owner put him mostly to private mares.  

Considering that you can catch your horse out of pasture, try to load him on a trailer to go to a local show, he can fall off the ramp and break a leg and have to be put down ... or he could've stepped on something in the pasture, gotten a foot infection, and have to be put down ... or gotten bitten by a snake, or eaten something he shouldn't and colicked ... and had to be put down .... 

I still watch the races and enjoy it.  I am sad when one dies.  But I have known too many that had to be put down just hanging out at the barn, and known too many people who have been BADLY injured because of something horsey a horse did when the human just happened to be too close, that now I watch them go out and am glad when they all come back just a little muddy.  

It's like they say around the barn, "Manure happens."


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## WhatInThe (May 21, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> Hmm .. the NBC commentators haven't mentioned that.
> 
> Just read about the two on another forum.  Very grim start to a gloomy day.
> 
> ...



As of this post(post Preakness Stakes race) the story was NOT on the NBC News front or sports page. It was on the CBS and ABC news sites.


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## Bonzo (May 21, 2016)

Horse racing high risk sport
like motor racing motorbike racing
even people dropping dead
running the marathon 
wrestlers
been a few of them drop dead
over the years
boxers a few deaths also
most sports have a death risk
bull riding another lot of deaths
 It's not nice when any animal or person dies
The geezer who invented jogging was found dead
by the side of the road but people still went on jogging


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## SeaBreeze (May 21, 2016)

Falcon said:


> I know they like to run in the wild but not in a race where they are full of chemicals.
> 
> There's too much money involved in the whole "sport".
> 
> The big gamblers couldn't care less if a horse dies.



Completely agree Falcon, follow the money. :dollar:



Bonzo said:


> Horse racing high risk sport
> like motor racing motorbike racing
> even people dropping dead
> running the marathon
> ...



Difference is, motorbike racing, marathons, wrestling, boxing or running are done by the free choice of the person participating, they know the risks and are willing to take them.  Horses and Greyhounds have no say in the matter, they are raced for the financial reward and prestige of the owners who force them to do it, mostly for human spectator entertainment or gambling, but not as nasty as the blood sports.


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## Bonzo (May 21, 2016)

Most race horses and greyhounds 
are well fed well looked after 
proper stables the best food 
plenty of exercise well groomed
they  take part in races to win
prize money to keep them well 
looked after otherwise they'd all end up 
in a knackers yard or the owners 
putting them down


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## Guitarist (May 21, 2016)

WhatInThe said:


> I'm sure many owners and fans don't want to see the animal hurt or die but the business of horse racing/betting attracts a lot of unsavory characters and unethical behavior. If an athlete cheats they chose to take steroids, pain killers etc, a horse does not. An athlete can tell the coach he's injured even though not visable a horse cannot. Right now PETA is screaming for the immediate release of those horses medical records.
> 
> I get they look for the runner in a horse. Just can't take any horse to race. Even a lot of human athletes with a lot of raw talent for their sport get injured or really don't like or appreciate it. It takes a person who really knows horses/their horse and not horse racing to hopefully figure that out. I think the non experts or those that have expert knowledge of a particular horse are probably ignored far too often.



Drug use for sport horses is VERY tightly regulated.  

I wish more people would complain loudly and vocally about Big Lick Tennessee Walking Horses, because that IS an industry full of unethical and unsavory characters, who willingly practice deliberate and painful cruelty on their horses for the sake of a championship. And yet no one lifts up their voice in protest.  And why?  How many people even know what a Big Lick Tennessee Walking Horse IS?


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## SeaBreeze (May 21, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> I wish more people would complain loudly and vocally about Big Lick Tennessee Walking Horses, because that IS an industry full of unethical and unsavory characters, who willingly practice deliberate and painful cruelty on their horses for the sake of a championship. And yet no one lifts up their voice in protest.  And why?  How many people even know what a Big Lick Tennessee Walking Horse IS?



I've known about it for years, and I'm not a horse person and this is an old video.  All of these practices are abusive and should be stopped, there are people who are protesting it.http://www.humanesociety.org/issues...se_protection_act.html?credit=web_id372962775


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## SeaBreeze (May 21, 2016)

Bonzo said:


> Most race horses and greyhounds
> are well fed well looked after
> proper stables the best food
> plenty of exercise well groomed
> ...



From all I've heard, they are not well looked after at all.  https://www.animallaw.info/article/greyhounds-racing-their-deaths


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## Guitarist (May 21, 2016)

I think English race horses have it better than American ones.  They live at home, they train on the local gallops, in the countryside, they haul out for a day of racing and come home to their own stables at night.  I don't know how much turn-out time they get (American race horses get next to none, I think).  

I have read that racing greyhounds are kept crated almost all the time they're not on the track, but I don't know if that's true or not.  The only greyhounds I've known were rescues -- and couch potatoes!

But the fact that these guys lose their riders and keep on running and jumping for miles tells me they don't exactly hate racing, and must be in good health or they couldn't keep up:






Herd instinct might keep a horse running with the others, but for a horse at liberty to jump means he must enjoy jumping.


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## Bonzo (May 22, 2016)

I was talking about horse + greyhound racing in England n Ireland 
I don't know nothing about American racing I ain't got a clue
what a big lick Tennessee walking horse is all about


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## Debby (May 22, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> Hmm .. the NBC commentators haven't mentioned that.
> 
> Just read about the two on another forum.  Very grim start to a gloomy day.
> 
> ...




Canada doesn't keep track of the numbers but you folks in America do.  And the numbers are 2+ horses per day in the USA die on the track, country wide every day.  That's 750 and doesn't even take into consideration the thousands that are shipped to slaughter because they didn't work out as race horses.  They aren't dying in those numbers when they're strolling around a pasture or suffering from colic.  These are intentional, deliberate deaths because humans want to make money off them via gambling.  Apples and oranges.

As for the cats and dogs, their situation is equally miserable and precarious.  I knew a woman with a black mutt that she allowed to breed every year and sold the pups as pure bred labs.  Again, human greed and selfishness.


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## Debby (May 22, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> Good points, What.  Dogs in the wild trot when they're traveling long distances, they don't canter like so many who are on leashes with their running owners.
> 
> I remember seeing a "jogger" years ago who had her dog out on a leash, the poor dog stopped for a poop and the human kept jogging in place the whole time.  I thought, "Someone ought to put you on a leash next time you go to the bathroom and stand there jiggling the leash and jerking your neck while you're trying to poop!"
> 
> ...




I used to hang out at a barn where a race track trainer used to rent stalls when he was breaking in two year olds.  His rider would bring them into the arena and then force them to careen around it, smacking them with the whip and forcing them forward.  They were young and terrified but they eventually learned two things, to go forward and to stop.  That was their training.  

Horses will run away from things that frighten them but their distance is usually about 400 feet and then they will stop to reassess the situation.  When they are playing, they will run and buck but it doesn't last long.  What they are doing in a race is entirely different and they are compelled by the fear of losing the 'herd' and by the crop that is smacking at them as they run and there comes a point where momentum keeps them going so that even the slow down can take a long time.  The worst racing video on the Internet is the last moments of Eight Belles last race.  She broke both front ankles and couldn't stop running on her broken stumps for a hundred feet.  That is part of racing and some version of that happens twice a day on race tracks across the country.


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## Debby (May 22, 2016)

Bonzo said:


> Most race horses and greyhounds
> are well fed well looked after
> proper stables the best food
> plenty of exercise well groomed
> ...




http://www.aspca.org/animal-cruelty/other-animal-issues/greyhound-racing

'Every year, thousands of young and healthy Greyhound dogs are killed merely because they lack winning potential, were injured while racing or are no longer competitive....Racing Greyhounds routinely experience terrible injuries on the track such as broken legs, cardiac arrest, spinal cord paralysis and broken necks. They suffer off the track as well: 

Dogs caught up in this cruel industry spend most of their lives stacked in warehouse-style kennels for 20 or more hours a day, or are kept outdoors in dirt pens with minimal shelter. Most enclosures are not heated or air-conditioned. 

Many dogs suffer from fleas, ticks and internal parasites and are not provided basic veterinary care, human affection, or adequate sustenance....

While Greyhounds may live 13 or more years, they are usually 18 months to 5 years old when they are retired from racing because they are either deemed unfit to race after an injury or no longer fast enough to be profitable. While some of these dogs are sent to rescue groups, others are simply killed or returned to breeding facilities to serve as breeding stock.

In February 2015, Greyhound advocacy group GREY2K USA and the ASPCA released the first-ever national report on Greyhound racing in the United States chronicling the thousands of Greyhound injuries and hundreds of Greyhound deaths in the seven states where tracks still operate.



11,722 Greyhound injuries.  More than 3,000 dogs  have suffered broken legs and  other injuries such as crushed skulls, broken backs, paralysis and electrocutions.
909 racing Greyhound deaths. The true number of deaths is likely higher as there are no verifiable  statistics on the ultimate fate of Greyhounds who survive racing but are disposed of each year when  injured or no longer competitive.
27 cases of Greyhound cruelty and neglect. This figure captures the number of dogs who were  starved to death, denied veterinary care, or endured poor track kennel conditions. Additionally, 16 racing Greyhounds tested positive for cocaine.
That is the state of greyhound racing in America.  We tell ourselves pretty stories where animals are involved, so that we can feel good about that entertainment industry, but the truth is never the same as the reality.

_I just Googled 'racing in Britain' and one of the first links was:  http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/32...and-bothered-cruel-fate-of-retired-greyhounds  and the opening paragraph says: 

 'Bronwen Catton, who runs Kerry Greyhounds UK charity, co-ordinates a team of volunteers to save up to 200 unwanted dogs a year from being burned or buried alive in Ireland.__She wants the Irish authorities to do more to stop the cruelty and close a loophole which will allow old greyhounds to be exported indirectly to China, where they will be eaten.  (_and you may recall what happens to dogs in China) The article goes on to talk about the abuse that Spanish Greyhounds receive when they are finished with their careers.

I've been following all of this crap for years and I think it's safe to say, that while there may be the occasional individual who 'cares' in any given industry that uses animals, the vast majority are willing to cross the line in pursuit of money.  And most of these individuals will point to the 'industry standard' that they are often said to be operating within the confines of and those industry standards in any other discussion about your cat or dog, would be considered cruel and abusive.

And a Google search regarding horse racing in Britain suggests that the problem of abuse is no different there than it is here.  One article referred to the Grand National as Britains 'bull fighting'.  So much for horses loving it eh?


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## Debby (May 22, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> Drug use for sport horses is VERY tightly regulated.
> 
> I wish more people would complain loudly and vocally about Big Lick Tennessee Walking Horses, because that IS an industry full of unethical and unsavory characters, who willingly practice deliberate and painful cruelty on their horses for the sake of a championship. And yet no one lifts up their voice in protest.  And why?  How many people even know what a Big Lick Tennessee Walking Horse IS?




People have complained for years about this and attempted to get it policed but it persists in the dark corners of that niche industry.  A few years back one of their top trainers was caught by a Humane Society undercover videographer, beating and abusing the horses in his care.   His name is Jackie McConnell and he was charged with 22 counts of animal cruelty.  Ultimately I think he got one year of house arrest, four years of probation, $25,000 fine and he was dumped from the TWH Hall of Fame.  This HSUSA page discusses the case and also shows the video that got him charged as well as examples of that horrible 'movement' that is deemed so desirable that people will torture their animals to achieve it.

http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2013/07/jackie-mcconnell-pleads-guilty-070913.html


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## WhatInThe (May 22, 2016)

Didn't a famous horse have to be put down after a hyped match race of some kind many years ago involving a triple crown winner?  Maybe I'm thinking of something else.


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## Debby (May 22, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> I think English race horses have it better than American ones.  They live at home, they train on the local gallops, in the countryside, they haul out for a day of racing and come home to their own stables at night.  I don't know how much turn-out time they get (American race horses get next to none, I think).
> 
> I have read that racing greyhounds are kept crated almost all the time they're not on the track, but I don't know if that's true or not.  The only greyhounds I've known were rescues -- and couch potatoes!
> 
> ...




I hate to be monopolizing the conversation here, but I just can't help correcting the misinformation that is showing up.

This article refers to that Grand National that you found video for Guitarist and the article refutes what you've said:  http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...his-cruel-industry-once-and-for-a6971156.html

In the body of it:

'....Of course it's not just during the Grand National that horses are treated as little more than replaceable inventory. Horses routinely pay with their lives on other British racetracks. Seven died in this year's Cheltenham Festival – three on one day alone.Jockey Ruby Walsh epitomised this indifference when he blithely dismissed the death of a horse named Our Conor in the 2014 Cheltenham Festival, saying, "You can replace a horse". Walsh's comments were disturbingly prescient: two more horses died on the Cheltenham track the very next day.

Breeders churn out horses in hopes of producing a winner, but not every horse is a fast runner. It's estimated that 18,000 foals are born every year into the British and Irish racing industries. Only about 40 per cent go on to race. Those who don't make the grade face uncertain fates, which can include tragic neglect and slaughter. ...

The racing industry is not kind to its spent cast-offs, either. There are too many retired horses and too few retirement options. Some former racehorses are simply shot, while others are slaughtered and their flesh exported for human consumption or rendered for dog and cat food. Yet others are left to languish in forgotten fields. This was the fate of the 1984 Grand National winner, Hello Dandy, who was ultimately found under different ownership, living in appalling conditions and suffering from rain scald.

Similarly, in February of this year, a horse eventually identified via microchip as the Weatherbys-registered racehorse Out of Nothing was found - again, under different ownership - in a pasture, emaciated, covered with sores and barely able to stand. This was a horse that, before 2014, had run 43 races in Ireland and the UK, with three wins and eight placings to her credit. Her condition was so grave that she could not be saved....'

Like I said before, the reality is never the same as the myths that we tell ourselves.


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## Guitarist (May 22, 2016)

Bonzo said:


> I was talking about horse + greyhound racing in England n Ireland
> I don't know nothing about American racing I ain't got a clue
> what a big lick Tennessee walking horse is all about



Well, Bonzo, you could always Google it.  The Internet is free if you have a computer.


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## Debby (May 22, 2016)

Here's a video that shows 'the Big Lick'  and discusses how that movement is obtained.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDygeHVZ6qw

I have read that the horses that are being forced to their feet spend their days laying down as much as possible to keep the pressure off their sore legs and at about 2:15, you can hear the horse groaning as it's legs burn from the caustic stuff that's being 'cooked' into its legs.  There are also a couple of little short glimpses of what that horrid 'big lick' movement looks like.  Personally I can't imagine why anyone would want their animals to look like that to where they are willing to torture them!  Disgusting human beings!


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## Ralphy1 (May 23, 2016)

All of this racing of animals is just a case of humans exploiting animals for entertainment...


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## Debby (May 23, 2016)

All of this is why I'm entirely sceptical whenever I hear a 'business man' say "I love my animals".......sure you do is my response.


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## SeaBreeze (May 28, 2016)

*Arizona 40th State to Ban Dog Racing*

Good news here. 




> We thought it might never happen… but it has. For years, greyhounds have suffered and died at Tucson Greyhound Park, Arizona’s last dog track. It was in 1939 that the Grand Canyon State became one of the first to legalize greyhound racing. Five tracks were built and operated over the years, but only “TGP” remained.
> 
> Things were so bad there. Greyhounds were left to languish inside barren warehouse-style kennels. Many wore muzzles, a kind of double caging.
> 
> The poor dogs had limited access to water and subsisted on a diet of raw, diseased meat. There were no toys for them and no play. What a terrible life!


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## Debby (May 29, 2016)

Such wonderful news!  Thanks for sharing it Seabreeze.  Nice news to start the day with.


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## Butterfly (May 29, 2016)

GOOD!!!

New Mexico has several groups that rescue retired or rejected greyhounds from AZ racetracks and brings them her and finds them homes, so I know several wonderful greyhounds.


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