# More countries to end covid restrictions.



## chic (Jan 29, 2022)

Since England reversed course on vaccine passports, mandates and masking, other European countries have followed suit like Ireland, Scotland, Denmark, Croatia and Czechoslovakia. It's a positive sign things are at last moving in a good direction.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 29, 2022)

IMO there is nothing significantly different from last month, last week, or yesterday that would convince me that it's safe to let our guard down.

I'll continue taking the same basic precautions that we've been advised to use during the past two years.

It may be a positive sign that we are making some progress in accepting the virus as a part of our everyday lives.

We'll see.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jan 29, 2022)

I'm not sure removing mask mandates is a good idea just yet but I sure hope you're right Chic.


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## Becky1951 (Jan 29, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO there is nothing significantly different from last month, last week, or yesterday that would convince me that it's safe to let our guard down.
> 
> I'll continue taking the same basic precautions that we've been advised to use during the past two years.
> 
> ...


Same here, as far as precautions. Mask, sanitizer and not being in any enclosed spaces with others vaccinated or not.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 29, 2022)

This guy gives a quick talk on the what and why of restriction changes. He's a doctor and teacher of pharmacology who keeps his students and listeners updated on covid studies, research, news.

8 minute video


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## Alligatorob (Jan 29, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> This guy gives a quick talk on the what and why of restriction changes.


Interesting talk.  Hope he is right, he may be.


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## Murrmurr (Jan 29, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Interesting talk.  Hope he is right, he may be.


I hope so, too, but await further announcements. 

Seriously, I expect it's gonna wind down pretty soon.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

I hope it is coming to an end, but God forbid if cases and numbers start to rise and if another variant surfaces I hate to see how people react.


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## Jules (Jan 29, 2022)

My plan is to go slowly when they lift restrictions.  Even prior to Covid there were too many people with poor hygiene habits.


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## Remy (Jan 29, 2022)

Like I've stated before, I don't plan on taking off my mask for a long time. I do go out to shop, I'll go to the thrift stores. But I wear an N95 and I guess that's the best I can do. Hand sanitizer in my purse and car and of coarse hand washing. I don't get out of my car without the mask on.


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## chic (Jan 29, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I'm not sure removing mask mandates are a good idea just yet but I sure hope you're right Chic.


It's what some European countries are doing, Diva. Not the U.S. But Europe is usually ahead of us when it comes to covid.


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## Chris P Bacon (Jan 29, 2022)

I’d be okay with easing the restrictions too. I think that it’s time. But one country, Kiribati, let their guard down and here’s an article about what happened when they did so. It’s not a major player, on the world stage, like North America or Europe but still, it makes one wonder if this Covid stuff didn’t come straight from Pandora’s Box. Here’s the link - *https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/australasia/article/3165105/how-coronavirus-sneaked-kiribati-one-last-covid-free-places*


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

Australia has gone away with the lock down approach and has decided to go with the "Let Covid Rip" approach. What happened there in that country was initially cases went up to 100,000 per day and currently stand at almost 66K per day. After Australia was one of the lowest for a very long time.


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## Medusa (Jan 29, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> Same here, as far as precautions. Mask, sanitizer and not being in any enclosed spaces with others vaccinated or not.


I agree.  I'm ready to be finished with lockdowns, travel restrictions, wiping groceries with disinfectant, etc., but will happily wear a mask for as long as.


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## Medusa (Jan 29, 2022)

A friend was telling me that she heard (from someone's aunt's, cousin's brother) that there is now yet another strain, a variant of Omicron.  
I've had it. 
Come and get me Omicron. If you can get through my mask and vacs, have at me. I'm so exhausted by this.

My son recently quipped, "About the only way it could get worse at this point is if the CDC were to announce, '..._and also the virus has machine guns_...'"


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## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Australia has gone away with the lock down approach and has decided to go with the "Let Covid Rip" approach. What happened there in that country was initially cases went up to 100,000 per day and currently stand at almost 66K per day. After Australia was one of the lowest for a very long time.


Cases?  Positive Tests?  Actual Illnesses?  Hospitalizations?
Big difference.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> Cases?  Positive Tests?  Actual Illnesses?  Hospitalizations?
> Big difference.


I am not from Australia, but I suppose when they say Covid cases it includes all of that in one way or another.


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## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I am not from Australia, but I suppose when they say Covid cases it includes all of that in one way or another.


Exactly the problem.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> Exactly the problem.


If it is a Covid related illness whether testing positive, showing a few symptoms, or being hospitalized then it should be listed under such statistics.


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## Jules (Jan 29, 2022)

IMO, the number to watch is hospitalizations.  The numbers to watch are people are being admitted to the hospital or those acutely ill who’re unable to leave even though Covid was not their initial problem.  (guess I’m trying to say, if you’re in the hospital for any reason but can’t leave because you have Covid, it should be counted.) 
If we can get the pressure off the medical system, we might be able to start functioning more normally.  

Maybe we should also be tracking stores and businesses, especially medical, that can’t function because too many staff are off ill.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

Jules said:


> IMO, the number to watch is hospitalizations.  The numbers to watch are people are being admitted to the hospital or those acutely ill who’re unable to leave even though Covid was not their initial problem.  (guess I’m trying to say, if you’re in the hospital for any reason but can’t leave because you have Covid, it should be counted.)
> If we can get the pressure off the medical system, we might be able to start functioning more normally.
> 
> Maybe we should also be tracking stores and businesses, especially medical, that can’t function because too many staff are off ill.


You are correct, the most important I suppose is those with severe enough cases that need hospitalization, but if you really think about it what about those who are carriers of Covid who show no symptoms of the virus and could be spreading it around the community without really even knowing it. That is pretty scary as well.


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## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> You are correct, the most important I suppose is those with severe enough cases that need hospitalization, but if you really think about it what about those who are carriers of Covid who show no symptoms of the virus and could be spreading it around the community without really even knowing it. That is pretty scary as well.


The same is true for the flu or the common cold - which is also caused by the Coronavirus.
Anyone could be spreading anything around the community without knowing it.


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## Don M. (Jan 29, 2022)

I came across this "opinion" this morning, and after reading it a couple of times, I think this guy is Right On.  

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kerr-reject-vaccine-reject-hospital-040004460.html

If you think this virus is a hoax, or government conspiracy, and you get ill, Don't destroy the lives of our hospital personnel.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> The same is true for the flu or the common cold - which is also caused by the Coronavirus.
> Anyone could be spreading anything around the community without knowing it.


True, but the last time I checked millions of people have not died from the common cold or flu. Also Coronavirus and the common cold is not the same, but are both of course caused by viruses. The are caused however by two separate viruses. The Coronavirus by SARS-CoV2, while the common cold by the rhinoviruses.


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## hollydolly (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> True, but the last time I checked millions of people have not died from the common cold or flu. Also Coronavirus and the common cold is not the same, but are both of course caused by viruses. The are caused however by two separate viruses. The Coronavirus by SARS-CoV2, while the common cold by the rhinoviruses.


actually to be entirely pedantic... 50 million people died from the Spanish flu


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> actually to be entirely pedantic... 50 million people died from the Spanish flu


Yes, I believe that was back in 1918 and I doubt they did not have the medical technology that they have now back then. Regardless that must have been horrible.


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## Becky1951 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Yes, I believe that was back in 1918 and I doubt they did not have the medical technology that they have now back then. Regardless that must have been horrible.


When you really think about it, 1918, there were probably many more then that who died from it.

In 1918 most rural area's, country area's still traveled by horse, or horse and buggy or wagon. Went to town once a month for the supplies they didn't raise themselves. A person could catch it and spread it to their family and anyone they talked with and never know it was the "Spanish flu". Families doctored their own, buried their own, their numbers may never have been counted.


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## MMinSoCal (Jan 29, 2022)

I work in the medical field where we follow CDC guidelines.  The latest for health care providers who get sick with Covid is "Stay home for 5 days and then come back to work.  A negative test result is not required."  I think the medical industry is just tired of the whole pandemic plus there is a shortage of workers, so employers are desperate to have all hands on deck.


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## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> True, but the last time I checked millions of people have not died from the common cold or flu. Also Coronavirus and the common cold is not the same, but are both of course caused by viruses. The are caused however by two separate viruses. The Coronavirus by SARS-CoV2, while the common cold by the rhinoviruses.


If that number was accurate......


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> If that number was accurate......


The thing is there has to be some sort of statistics to go by. People can either choose to believe them or not. It seems like a certain part of the population believes that and another does not and it is all driven unfortunately by something that it should never have been driven by in the first place.


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## Becky1951 (Jan 29, 2022)

MMinSoCal said:


> I work in the medical field where we follow CDC guidelines.  The latest for health care providers who get sick with Covid is "Stay home for 5 days and then come back to work.  A negative test result is not required."  I think the medical industry is just tired of the whole pandemic plus there is a shortage of workers, so employers are desperate to have all hands on deck.


So in other words if on day 6 your still infected it's OK to spread it.


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## Becky1951 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> The thing is there has to be some sort of statistics to go by. People can either choose to believe them or not. It seems like a certain part of the population believes that and another does not and it is all driven unfortunately by something that it should never have been driven by in the first place.


"It is all driven unfortunately by something that it should never have been driven by."

Counting deaths of those who died of non covid reasons, died with, not of.


That alone causes mistrust of the numbers.


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## fancicoffee13 (Jan 29, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO there is nothing significantly different from last month, last week, or yesterday that would convince me that it's safe to let our guard down.
> 
> I'll continue taking the same basic precautions that we've been advised to use during the past two years.
> 
> ...


I agree with you!


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> "It is all driven unfortunately by something that it should never have been driven by."
> 
> Counting deaths of those who died of non covid reasons, died with, not of.
> 
> ...


When we are talking over 5 million deaths worldwide listed as deaths by Covid that is still a tremendous amount of deaths. Let's say even 20% of those people on that list which is probably overestimating died of other causes that still leaves a considerable amount of deaths in just over 2 years due to Covid. That would come out to over 1 million patients not with Covid who passed away and over 4 million still dying from Covid. The 20% margin is way overestimating though.


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## MMinSoCal (Jan 29, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> So in other words if on day 6 your still infected it's OK to spread it.


CDC thinks it's OK!


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

MMinSoCal said:


> CDC thinks it's OK!


Unfortunately you are correct about after 5 days of isolation after being exposed or having Covid you can go back to work and are expected of course to wear a mask. The CDC has administered this policy basically to appease those who have been whining so much about keeping things open with relaxing the guidelines. My personal opinion is this is not the smartest recommendation they have made.


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## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> The thing is there has to be some sort of statistics to go by. People can either choose to believe them or not. It seems like a certain part of the population believes that and another does not and it is all driven unfortunately by something that it should never have been driven by in the first place.


Covid exists.  But the numbers are a crock.


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## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> When we are talking over 5 million deaths worldwide listed as deaths by Covid that is still a tremendous amount of deaths. Let's say even 20% of those people on that list which is probably overestimating died of other causes that still leaves a considerable amount of deaths in just over 2 years due to Covid. That would come out to over 1 million patients not with Covid who passed away and over 4 million still dying from Covid. The 20% margin is way overestimating though.


Yes, "When _*we*_ are talking over 5 million deaths.  
Depends who's doing the talking.  Some people who are lied to don't listen to who's talking.  And some people know that if it doesn't make sense, it's not true.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> Yes, "When _*we*_ are talking over 5 million deaths.
> Depends who's doing the talking.  Some people who are lied to don't listen to who's talking.  And some people know that if it doesn't make sense, it's not true.


Are you telling me that they are making up false death certificates and that many people have not died? If so, you have lost your mind.


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## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Are you telling me that they are making up false death certificates and that many people have not died? If so, you have lost your mind.


If you believe everything you're told, you're a programmed robot & don't have a mind, so you have nothing to lose.
(see how easy it is when you post like a child?)


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> You don't have a mind, so you have nothing to lose.
> (see how easy it is when you post like a child?)


Yes you are the King at it. I have been here two weeks and I have seen it all over the forum by you. Go ahead and  jump on me all you want for the one remark that I have made, that thinking is rather silly. Then you jump on the people and make smart comments to the others who make one comment to you like you are all innocent. Well sir, you definitely are not.

I also believe I have exercised on here that I most definitely do have a mind and that I do not let others no matter what side of the fence they happen to stand on influence me. I make my own decisions based on what is occurring right in front of me. I have said that right from the start. I have said I will never let someone whether it be on this forum or Dr. Fauci or Dr. Malone, Joe Biden or Donald Trump or whoever influence my decisions. So most definitely I am not a programmed robot as you say.


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## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Yes you are the King at it. I have been here two weeks and I have seen it all over the forum by you. Go ahead and  jump on me all you want for the one remark that I have made, that thinking is rather silly. Then you jump on the people and make smart comments to the others who make one comment to you like you are all innocent. Well sir, you definitely are not.


"You have seen it all over the forum _by me_?"
Coming from someone who just said _"I lost my mind."_
As I said, you have nothing to lose.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> "You have seen it all over the forum _by me_?"
> Coming from someone who just said _"I lost my mind."_
> As I said, you have nothing to lose.


Yes, I have seen you make several snarky comments to others then jump on the first one you see making one acting as though you are all innocent.


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## dseag2 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Yes, I have seen you make several snarky comments to others then jump on the first one you see making one acting as though you are all innocent.


Don't say I didn't warn you not to get caught up in the Covid threads.  @win231 and I sparred constantly when I first joined but now I appreciate him despite our differences.  He loves all animals, stands up for marginalized citizens, has a wicked sense of humor and is a renaissance man on the piano. 

I've learned not to judge people solely by their stance on Covid, masks and vaccines.  (Yes, there are still some that I can't tolerate. )  We are all multi-faceted.  I have learned over the months that it really takes time to get to know someone in this forum on multiple levels.  I'm so glad you are here.  Please be careful to not get too far into the weeds!

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/vaccines.65192/page-8#post-1904168


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

dseag2 said:


> Don't say I didn't warn you not to get caught up in the Covid threads.  @win231 and I sparred constantly when I first joined but now I appreciate him despite our differences.  He loves all animals, stands up for marginalized citizens, has a wicked sense of humor and is a renaissance man on the piano.
> 
> I've learned not to judge people solely by their stance on Covid, masks and vaccines.  (Yes, there are still some that I can't tolerate. )  We are all multi-faceted.  I have learned over the months that it really takes time to get to know someone in this forum on multiple levels.  I'm so glad you are here.  Please be careful to not get too far into the weeds!
> 
> https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/vaccines.65192/page-8#post-1904168


I agree with you as I have enjoyed many of his posts in other threads and I agree with you on all of those things you stated about him, but when he calls me out for the one time I post something that is childish and has done the same to others in the short time I have been here and then acts like he is innocent from ever doing so himself which is far from the truth that just leaves me shaking my head.


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## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I agree with you as I have enjoyed many of his posts in other threads and I agree with you on all of those things you stated about him, but when he calls me out for the one time I post something that is childish and has done the same to others in the short time I have been here and then acts like he is innocent from ever doing so himself which is far from the truth that just leaves me shaking my head.


I do tend to retaliate when I'm insulted.  But the one who _starts _it is the _troublemaker.  _And you know who that is.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 29, 2022)

win231 said:


> I do tend to retaliate when I'm insulted.  But the one who _starts _it is the _troublemaker.  _And you know who that is.


You are saying you have never insulted or made a snarky comment to someone by starting it? I am sorry , but in the short time I have been here I have to disagree and I guarantee you that others who have been here longer would say the same as I have gotten private messages already concerning this situation with you from others. So say what you will and I know we will always disagree on the Covid and Vaccines and honestly I don't have a problem with that as I have stated many times already people can have their beliefs. Some of your beliefs I feel are pretty far fetched as you probably feel the same with some of the things I believe as well concerning this. Like I also said in replying to @dseag2 I have no problems and actually enjoy your other posts quite well and feel you are extremely talented playing the piano. This is just one issue that we will disagree on and I believe there are many others on here that you and they disagree on these things as well. I am not going to stop sharing my opinions on here as you will not as well, but no matter what you say it isn't going to make a bit of difference in my thinking. So I should have not said you have lost your mind even though I still totally disagree with your statement because you have all the right to think what you want to think. The same as I do.


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## Ruthanne (Jan 29, 2022)

chic said:


> Since England reversed course on vaccine passports, mandates and masking, other European countries have followed suit like Ireland, Scotland, Denmark, Croatia and Czechoslovakia. It's a positive sign things are at last moving in a good direction.


I believe it is Now called Slovakia.  Just clarifying.I have family there.


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## win231 (Jan 29, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> You are saying you have never insulted or made a snarky comment to someone by starting it? I am sorry , but in the short time I have been here I have to disagree and I guarantee you that others who have been here longer would say the same as I have gotten private messages already concerning this situation with you from others. So say what you will and I know we will always disagree on the Covid and Vaccines and honestly I don't have a problem with that as I have stated many times already people can have their beliefs. Some of your beliefs I feel are pretty far fetched as you probably feel the same with some of the things I believe as well concerning this. Like I also said in replying to @dseag2 I have no problems and actually enjoy your other posts quite well and feel you are extremely talented playing the piano. This is just one issue that we will disagree on and I believe there are many others on here that you and they disagree on these things as well. I am not going to stop sharing my opinions on here as you will not as well, but no matter what you say it isn't going to make a bit of difference in my thinking. So I should have not said you have lost your mind even though I still totally disagree with your statement because you have all the right to think what you want to think. The same as I do.


Thank you for acknowledging that you should not have put it the way you put it.  I respect someone who realizes their mistake.

Covid has brought out the worst in people.  I have a niece & nephew that I helped raise when their parents divorced when their kids were 8 & 9.  I drove them to school & picked them up every day, so their mother could stay employed, I drove my nephew to his art class (he's now a very talented & successful commercial artist for Warner Bros & the video game industry as well as a professor).  When he needed a car, I gave him (not loaned him) $6,000.00 towards a new Corolla so he would have reliable, safe transportation (his father didn't care).

The thanks I got?  Last year, my sister wanted to have a get together with 9 friends - 2 were birthdays.  We set the tables & got the house decorated.  We both happened to catch colds that evening.  (Colds; not Covid).
My nephew immediately blamed ME for giving his mother my cold.  I said, _"We both got colds at the same time; how do you know who gave who the cold or where we got them?"_
He said, _"I know you gave her your cold; you're reckless because you sometimes have friends over & you go for walks outdoors."_

I said, _"You go to work & you're around 20 people every day; I don't see you staying home.  And your wife shops at Costco; how many people is she around when she's there?  If she catches a cold & gives it to you are you going to blame her, too?"_
I also reminded him, _"It was your mother's idea to have the get together, not mine; why aren't you blaming her?  You can't possibly be that stupid.....can you?"  _(He's 37 years old)  I also told him he's an ungrateful slob.  
We haven't spoken ever since & probably never will, which is OK with me.
He sent me a birthday card recently with a note that said, "_Happy Birthday.......I know things are weird right now."_
Yeah....._"things are weird,"_ not "_I'm sorry."_

Oh, by the way, him, his wife & their 2 kids all got sick recently (all vaccinated & boosted) except the kids who are too young - 2 & 3 yrs old. His mother told me they were all tested for Covid - I don't know the results.   I wonder who he's blaming.


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## Tish (Jan 29, 2022)

I am still staying alert and will be using a mask.


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## chic (Jan 30, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> I believe it is Now called Slovakia.  Just clarifying.I have family there.


Is it? Thx. It was called Czechoslovakia on the news.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 30, 2022)

win231 said:


> Thank you for acknowledging that you should not have put it the way you put it.  I respect someone who realizes their mistake.
> 
> Covid has brought out the worst in people.  I have a niece & nephew that I helped raise when their parents divorced when their kids were 8 & 9.  I drove them to school & picked them up every day, so their mother could stay employed, I drove my nephew to his art class (he's now a very talented & successful commercial artist for Warner Bros & the video game industry as well as a professor).  When he needed a car, I gave him (not loaned him) $6,000.00 towards a new Corolla so he would have reliable, safe transportation (his father didn't care).
> 
> ...


I think people will always have differences of opinions when it comes to this and honestly because the way the world is today with many other things. This I do blame on those leading the country and not just one side is to take the blame. They are both at fault here. These officials are elected to work for us the people and that is the last thing they end up doing. They are more wrapped up with their own egos, becoming re-elected again, and fighting against each other which doesn't get anything solved which in turn is awful for the country. These are the people that we are suppose to look to. I think not. Although many in this country put way too much into everything these people have to say or do and by the way most of them act no wonder the way the country or countries are today. Most everything is made to be political. It even trickles into sports from time to time with cases such as the Aaron Rodgers situation recently or before that the kneeling at the National anthem. Things are not all political and people making it that way is a lot of the problems that we face today.


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## Becky1951 (Jan 30, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I think people will always have differences of opinions when it comes to this and honestly because the way the world is today with many other things. This I do blame on those leading the country and not just one side is to take the blame. They are both at fault here. These officials are elected to work for us the people and that is the last thing they end up doing. They are more wrapped up with their own egos, becoming re-elected again, and fighting against each other which doesn't get anything solved which in turn is awful for the country. These are the people that we are suppose to look to. I think not. Although many in this country put way too much into everything these people have to say or do and by the way most of them act no wonder the way the country or countries are today. Most everything is made to be political. It even trickles into sports from time to time with cases such as the Aaron Rodgers situation recently or before that the kneeling at the National anthem. Things are not all political and people making it that way is a lot of the problems that we face today.


Yes and add the media's constant comments in Covid related articles reminding the reader that people's opinions are being based on their political beliefs.  

*Not everyone does.*


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## chic (Jan 30, 2022)

Feb. 16 Switzerland will be dropping all covid mandates and restrictions. Why is the U.S. so slow to join this important trend?


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## Jeni (Jan 30, 2022)

chic said:


> Feb. 16 Switzerland will be dropping all covid mandates and restrictions. Why is the U.S. so slow to join this important trend?


The US dug a deep hole with media promoting every day .. fear and hype..... it is not as easy to turn that tide.   How do they tell folks "hey it is now endemic"  when they have constantly moved goal posts and changed end games. 

They cannot just say "Never mind"   and move forward .... 
Saving face is more important then ending this situation. 
This is not a political problem but an honesty problem....


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## Shero (Jan 30, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> You are saying you have never insulted or made a snarky comment to someone by starting it? I am sorry , but in the short time I have been here I have to disagree and I guarantee you that others who have been here longer would say the same as I have gotten private messages already concerning this situation with you from others. So say what you will and I know we will always disagree on the Covid and Vaccines and honestly I don't have a problem with that as I have stated many times already people can have their beliefs. Some of your beliefs I feel are pretty far fetched as you probably feel the same with some of the things I believe as well concerning this. Like I also said in replying to @dseag2 I have no problems and actually enjoy your other posts quite well and feel you are extremely talented playing the piano. This is just one issue that we will disagree on and I believe there are many others on here that you and they disagree on these things as well. I am not going to stop sharing my opinions on here as you will not as well, but no matter what you say it isn't going to make a bit of difference in my thinking. So I should have not said you have lost your mind even though I still totally disagree with your statement because you have all the right to think what you want to think. The same as I do.



I guess he is suffering from a loss of memory re: all of those snarky comments he made to me and my lapses into French
Such immaturity, such childishness, I have chosen to ignore.
.


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## Shero (Jan 30, 2022)

I hope these countries do not live (or not) to regret it.
We shall see!!
.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 30, 2022)

Shero said:


> I guess he is suffering from a loss of memory re: all of those snarky comments he made to me and my lapses into French
> Such immaturity, such childishness, I have chosen to ignore.
> .


I think he realizes that he has done the same thing in the past as well and I know the one time I did it that it was not the right way to react and I will try to refrain from doing that again in the future. I am not perfect as is anyone on this forum perfect. I am and I believe he is moving on from it.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 30, 2022)

Shero said:


> I hope these countries do not live (or not) to regret it.
> We shall see!!
> .


We have already seen countries such as Australia who at the beginning of January lift lock downs and mandates and go into a "Let Covid Rip" stage. What happened the numbers soared to levels that had not been reached since the beginning of the pandemic in that country. Of course anti-vaxxers had there excuses that the numbers were not accurate and that they were cases that could have involved anything that turned into Covid related cases, but those are the numbers that did soar once they went to this new stance. We shall see what happens once things get pulled back in these others countries. I do hope for the best.


----------



## Shero (Jan 30, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> We have already seen countries such as Australia who at the beginning of January lift lock downs and mandates and go into a "Let Covid Rip" stage. What happened the numbers soared to levels that had not been reached since the beginning of the pandemic in that country. Of course anti-vaxxers had there excuses that the numbers were not accurate and that they were cases that could have involved anything that turned into Covid related cases, but those are the numbers that did soar once they went to this new stance. We shall see what happens once things get pulled back in these others countries. I do hope for the best.



Oh yes, you are so right Rah Rah. One never knows with a virus. Now that there is a new one rearing it spikes, BA2 , I am not setting my hopes too high.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 30, 2022)

Shero said:


> Oh yes, you are so right Rah Rah. One never knows with a virus. Now that there is a new one rearing it spikes, BA2 , I am not setting my hopes too high.


I no matter if mandates are lifted will still take my own precautions with masks and whatever else I feel necessary to keep myself safe until I feel it is the right time on my own.


----------



## win231 (Jan 30, 2022)

Shero said:


> I guess he is suffering from a loss of memory re: all of those snarky comments he made to me and my lapses into French
> Such immaturity, such childishness, I have chosen to ignore.
> .


Yeah, snarky comments tend to happen after you ridicule anyone with a different vaccine opinion than yours..........  
And, you obviously have not chosen to ignore.


----------



## chic (Jan 31, 2022)

Jeni said:


> The US dug a deep hole with media promoting every day .. fear and hype..... it is not as easy to turn that tide.   How do they tell folks "hey it is now endemic"  when they have constantly moved goal posts and changed end games.
> 
> They cannot just say "Never mind"   and move forward ....
> Saving face is more important then ending this situation.
> This is not a political problem but an honesty problem....


I respectfully disagree. England was the same in their fear mongering tactics. And they backed down. That's why I love the English so. They know when to move forward and they know when to retreat. In America, we haven't been protesting enough. That's the difference. England won their freedom with protesting. America should do the same.


----------



## rgp (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> Yeah, snarky comments tend to happen after you ridicule anyone with a different vaccine opinion than yours..........
> And, you obviously have not chosen to ignore.




   Oh really ....... what about when you ridicule anyone with a different opinion than yours on anything ?


----------



## Liberty (Jan 31, 2022)

You know what they say, war planning is great, but everything changes when the first shot fires.


----------



## win231 (Jan 31, 2022)

rgp said:


> Oh really ....... what about when you ridicule anyone with a different opinion than yours on anything ?


Racism is not an opinion.  As I said before, it's an indication of ignorance, stupidity & being a lowlife.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> Racism is not an opinion.  As I said before, it's an indication of ignorance, stupidity & being a lowlife.


Win, I agree with you 100% about Racism, but the way you express your displeasure and being against using those words just shows the exact same behavior as you are excusing the other person of. This is just my opinion and you may have other ways of going about it. You already have seen my post and apology for my mistake of the one time I stated something I shouldn't have and like I said people are not perfect, but to ignore that and just continue that behavior and not try to improve on it is not good. That is all I am going to say on that. You can choose however you want to express yourself.


----------



## win231 (Jan 31, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Win, I agree with you 100% about Racism, but the way you express your displeasure and being against using those words just shows the exact same behavior as you are excusing the other person of. This is just my opinion and you may have other ways of going about it. You already have seen my post and apology for my mistake of the one time I stated something I shouldn't have and like I said people are not perfect, but to ignore that and just continue that behavior and not try to improve on it is not good. That is all I am going to say on that. You can choose however you want to express yourself.


I see nothing wrong with using words that clearly show my disgust for something disgusting.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> I see nothing wrong with using words that clearly show my disgust for something disgusting.


That is totally up to you, but you certainly do call out childish on others who use those type of words in many circumstances that you may not agree with.


----------



## win231 (Jan 31, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> That is totally up to you, but you certainly do call out childish on others who use those type of words in many circumstances that you may not agree with.


Perhaps you misinterpret accurate terms as "childish."


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> Perhaps you misinterpret accurate terms as "childish."


Some of the terms used by the other members as I recall are the exact wording that you just used.


----------



## win231 (Jan 31, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Some of the terms used by the other members as I recall are the exact wording that you just used.


I'm not clear on what you mean.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> I'm not clear on what you mean.


Such as you used the word stupid and I have seen others use that as well. The same can be said for ignorant. It seems though when you use it then it is fine and there is a just reason for using it, but when others use it it is "childish".


----------



## win231 (Jan 31, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Such as you used the word stupid and I have seen others use that as well. The same can be said for ignorant. It seems though when you use it then it is fine and there is a just reason for using it, but when others use it it is "childish".


Logically, it depends on the reason someone uses a word.


----------



## Leann (Jan 31, 2022)

@Murrmurr thank you for posting the video. It was very informative.


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## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> Logically, it depends on the reason someone uses a word.


It is the context that you are using the word not the reasons the word is being used. The context is all the same and that is to do nothing but to degrade a person. You said it to me when I told you that you had lost your mind.


----------



## rgp (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> Racism is not an opinion.  As I said before, it's an indication of ignorance, stupidity & being a lowlife.




   And once again your reply shows even greater indication/evidence of ignorance , lowlife , etc. 

Once again it seems that you just cannot respond without a personal attack , insults, assumptions & the like . You are worse at the negative than anyone else you point that very finger at .......but in your ignorance it seems you just cannot see that . 

  IOW right back at'cha !!


----------



## rgp (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> I see nothing wrong with using words that clearly show my disgust for something disgusting.




 Try to remember that the next time something disgusting is sent your way.


----------



## win231 (Jan 31, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> It is the context that you are using the word not the reasons the word is being used. The context is all the same and that is to do nothing but to degrade a person. You said it to me when I told you that you had lost your mind.


Racists degrade themselves.  I'm always willing to help them degrade even more.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> Racists degrade themselves.  I'm always willing to help them degrade even more.


I do not agree with any kind of racism or racist and I do believe you to be correct that they do degrade themselves, but making those type of comments do the exact same things to the person saying them as well in my opinion.


----------



## win231 (Jan 31, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I do not agree with any kind of racism or racist and I do believe you to be correct that they do degrade themselves, but making those type of comments do the exact same things to the person saying them as well in my opinion.


That is open to your interpretation.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> That is open to your interpretation.


I suppose we all have different interpretations of things. What I do not quite understand though is how then you can get bent out of shape and retaliate and call people "childish" when they are just using the same logic as you when you chose to do the same thing.


----------



## win231 (Jan 31, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I suppose we all have different interpretations of things. What I do not quite understand though is how then you can get bent out of shape and retaliate and call people "childish" when they are just using the same logic as you when you chose to do the same thing.


I don't know what topic you are referring to.  If you're referring to someone who ridicules someone who doesn't choose to get vaccinated for Covid, yes, I would consider them childish as well as foolish.  We have a few of those individuals here.  And, yes, I will retaliate for that.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> I don't know what topic you are referring to.  If you're referring to someone who ridicules someone who doesn't choose to get vaccinated for Covid, yes, I would consider them childish as well as foolish.  We have a few of those individuals here.  And, yes, I will retaliate for that.


But when I say that you have lost your mind or someone else makes a comment at you then you get all bent out of shape and call them childish, but it is fine for you to make those sort of comments and refer to them as stupid or ignorant or whatever. That is what I am referring to. That is what I don't understand.


----------



## win231 (Jan 31, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> But when I say that you have lost your mind or someone else makes a comment at you then you get all bent out of shape and call them childish, but it is fine for you to make those sort of comments and refer to them as stupid or ignorant or whatever. That is what I am referring to. That is what I don't understand.


I don't get "Bent out of shape."  I simply call it like it is.  A racist *I*_*S*_ ignorant, childish, stupid, etc.
The fact that I resented you saying I lost my mind because I believe Covid mortality rates are exaggerated is an entirely-different story; it's a matter of opinion & trusting what you heard, rather than hating someone because they're a different color.  
You are trying to connect two issues that have no connection.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> I don't get "Bent out of shape."  I simply call it like it is.  A racist *I*_*S*_ ignorant, childish, stupid, etc.
> The fact that I resented you saying I lost my mind because I believe Covid mortality rates are exaggerated is an entirely-different story; it's a matter of opinion & trusting what you heard, rather than hating someone because they're a different color.
> You are trying to connect two issues that have no connection.


Either way you retaliated in the same snarky manner using the same type of degrading words. In my opinion no matter is the issues are separate the reactions are the same. I think we are going around in circles now with this and at least it was a civilized conversation of two disagreeing parties which shows that can happen.


----------



## John cycling (Jan 31, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> actually to be entirely pedantic... 50 million people died from the Spanish flu



A Spanish flu was not the killer <-- of the 50 million people who died.
The same as is happening now, the vaccinations <-- were the killer, purposely misattributed to a flu.

"The pandemic was not flu. An estimated 95% (or higher) of the deaths were caused by *bacterial pneumonia*, not influenza.  From January 21 to June 4, 1918, *an experimental bacterial meningitis vaccine* cultured in horses *by the Rockefeller Institute* for Medical Research in New York was injected into soldiers at Fort Riley."

"During the remainder of 1918 as those soldiers – *often living and traveling under poor sanitary conditions* – were sent to Europe to fight, they spread bacteria at every stop between Kansas and the frontline trenches in France.  During WW1, *the Rockefeller Institute* *also sent the antimeningococcic serum* to England, France, Belgium, Italy and other countries, helping spread the epidemic worldwide."

Update for @hollydolly and @Shero:
Your Rockefeller fact checkers are the same type of groups which started the 1918 and 2019 pandemics.
The vaccinations that caused the Spanish flu were not even flu vaccinations, and the current ones also are not.
Then what is the point of the vaccinations???   
The same as the wolves guarding the hen house:  "Hey wolves!  Did you eat those chickens???"  
"Oh no, we are protecting the chickens, not eating them!"  And some of you still believe them.  
.


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 31, 2022)

John cycling said:


> A Spanish flu was not the killer <-- of the 50 million people who died.
> The same as is happening now, the vaccinations <-- were the killer, purposely misattributed to a flu.


the flu vaccine wasn't invented until the 1940's...surely ?


----------



## hollydolly (Jan 31, 2022)

from fact checker...

https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/flu-vaccine-did-not-kill-50-million-during-the-1918-spanish-flu/


_The Statement_​
_As the race to find a COVID-19 vaccine continues, a Facebook post highlights a pandemic more than a century ago to warn of the ill effects of vaccines.


The post features an image of a giant glowing syringe above rows of hospital beds and reads, “The 1918 Spanish Flu did not kill 50,000,000 people! Vaccines that the govt forced them to take did and they are repeating the same pattern now.” It ends with the claim, “50 million dead from 1918 flu vaccine”.


The July 12 post has attracted more than 17,000 views and more than 300 shares.

Based on the evidence, *AAP FactCheck *found the claims in the Facebook post to be false. There is no evidence to support the claim a flu vaccine killed 50 million people during the 1918 Spanish Flu. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the first influenza vaccine was developed in the 1940s.


*False* – The primary claims of the content are factually inaccurate._


----------



## Jeni (Jan 31, 2022)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/governor...-to-a-great-state-of-normality-202729958.html
Governors look to move beyond COVID restrictions and return to 'a great state of normality'​
"Standing beside Hutchinson was Gov. Phil Murphy of New Jersey, the Democratic vice chair of the NGA who was recently reelected by a razor-thin margin. Democrats are becoming increasingly concerned that *moving too slowly to emerge from the pandemic could cost them in November’s midterm elections.*

“We’re not going to manage this to zero. We have to learn how to live with this," Murphy said during a Sunday appearance on “Meet the Press,” becoming the latest Democratic elected official to move away from the caution-first approach that has marked the party’s pandemic response for more than two years."


*Finally the US *may be ready to move on*............* but as clear in the quote in bold it is about elections ....... not health.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

*Finally the US *may be ready to move on*............* but as clear in the quote in bold it is about elections ....... not health.

And if that is finally why the United States decides to move on from this because of elections and not because of health than the motives are clearly wrong.


----------



## Shero (Jan 31, 2022)

John cycling said:


> A Spanish flu was not the killer <-- of the 50 million people who died.
> The same as is happening now, the vaccinations <-- were the killer, purposely misattributed to a flu.


*A m a z i n g  !!*


----------



## Shero (Jan 31, 2022)

*False claim: the 1918 influenza pandemic was caused by vaccines

A vaccine against the flu did not exist at the time.*

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-vaccines-caused-1918-influe-idUSKBN21J6X2







You are a constant source of amusement for me John Cycling !!!
.


----------



## chic (Jan 31, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> *Finally the US *may be ready to move on*............* but as clear in the quote in bold it is about elections ....... not health.
> 
> And if that is finally why the United States decides to move on from this because of elections and not because of health than the motives are clearly wrong.


I think it just makes their motives crystal clear.


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 31, 2022)

For the first time in almost 2 years I went shopping at the local supermarket unmasked and nobody said anything.


----------



## chic (Jan 31, 2022)

Murrmurr said:


> For the first time in almost 2 years I went shopping at the local supermarket unmasked and nobody said anything.


No one does say anything anymore. I'm so happy you were able to do this. At least all that "wear a mask" confrontation is over with.


----------



## rgp (Jan 31, 2022)

win231 said:


> I don't get "Bent out of shape."  I simply call it like it is.  A racist *I*_*S*_ ignorant, childish, stupid, etc.
> The fact that I resented you saying I lost my mind because I believe Covid mortality rates are exaggerated is an entirely-different story; it's a matter of opinion & trusting what you heard, rather than hating someone because they're a different color.
> You are trying to connect two issues that have no connection.




  ". A racist *I*_*S*_ ignorant, childish, stupid, etc."

 As is the person that just keeps repeating the same tired line .


----------



## Murrmurr (Jan 31, 2022)

chic said:


> No one does say anything anymore. I'm so happy you were able to do this. *At least all that "wear a mask" confrontation is over with.*


Yeah, that was nice.


----------



## win231 (Jan 31, 2022)

rgp said:


> ". A racist *I*_*S*_ ignorant, childish, stupid, etc."
> 
> As is the person that just keeps repeating the same tired line .


Repeating it is much better than earning it.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Jan 31, 2022)

chic said:


> I think it just makes their motives crystal clear.


I do agree with you that both sides have sadly made this entire pandemic into a political issue which from the beginning certainly was not and was a health issue the entire time. This is why many people have also turned it into a political issue as well and have made their decision entirely on political motives concerning the pandemic and the vaccines which is completely irrational as well.


----------



## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

win231 said:


> Repeating it is much better than earning it.



 Same tired claim from the same ignorant source.


----------



## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

This is a quote from LeBron James.

"I don't want nothing to do with white people. I don't believe they want anything to do with me. I don't want no (white) friends. It's me and my boys."

Well I feel pretty much the same way about blacks. Nothing any more sincere/serious.

This makes me a racist ? What is he ? He is one of the current heros of the black community , does he get a pass due to his status ?


----------



## win231 (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> This is a quote from LeBron James.
> 
> "I don't want nothing to do with white people. I don't believe they want anything to do with me. I don't want no (white) friends. It's me and my boys."
> 
> ...


Both of you are racists.  Does the fact that you're not the only racist make you feel better?


----------



## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

win231 said:


> Both of you are racists.  Does the fact that you're not the only racist make you feel better?



 Like him , I just prefer my own kind ..... I do not see that as racist. I wish no harm to anyone, and i certainly would not bring any harm to anyone, and I do not think he would either.

 You are the one hung-up on the racist label .... does it make you feel superior to use that term ? 

  Would you look him in the eye & call him a racist ? Or is it just easier with me as you hide behind your keyboard ? 

 It's really getting old, and since it is only an opinion on your part ....... I couldn't care less as you are less than significant .


----------



## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> This is a quote from LeBron James.
> 
> "I don't want nothing to do with white people. I don't believe they want anything to do with me. I don't want no (white) friends. It's me and my boys."
> 
> ...


Lebron James is currently playing for the Los Angeles Lakers NBA Basketball team. There is a player on the team named Austin Reeves who is white. Are you telling me that Lebron James does not associate with his own teammate and is not friends with his own teammate which he most likely spends the majority of his daily time with? That is complete bull.

I am not saying that Lebron James in his spare time doesn't choose to be around other black people because they are the people he feels he can associate with better for one reason or another, but to say he has zero white friends is ridiculous. His white teammate if anyone would ask him he would say he was a friend 100% for sure.

@rgb you can choose to be friends with whomever you please, but if you go around specifically trying to avoid one sort of person just because of their skin color and no other reason at all then yes that is racist. For example, if you met someone lets say in a bar and they just started chatting with you and you both really had a lot in common in the chats you were having , but they were black you would do everything to avoid them because they were black. That is wrong and racist.


----------



## win231 (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> Like him , I just prefer my own kind ..... I do not see that as racist. I wish no harm to anyone, and i certainly would not bring any harm to anyone, and I do not think he would either.
> 
> You are the one hung-up on the racist label .... does it make you feel superior to use that term ?
> 
> ...


You _"wish no harm to anyone?" _ Perhaps you forgot your earlier posts.  You said "If Ahmaud Arbery has just allowed himself to let those guys arrest him, he wouldn't have been killed."  You also supported Derek Chauvin.


----------



## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Lebron James is currently playing for the Los Angeles Lakers NBA Basketball team. There is a player on the team named Austin Reeves who is white. Are you telling me that Lebron James does not associate with his own teammate and is not friends with his own teammate which he most likely spends the majority of his daily time with? That is complete bull.
> 
> I am not saying that Lebron James in his spare time doesn't choose to be around other black people because they are the people he feels he can associate with better for one reason or another, but to say he has zero white friends is ridiculous. His white teammate if anyone would ask him he would say he was a friend 100% for sure.
> 
> @rgb you can choose to be friends with whomever you please, but if you go around specifically trying to avoid one sort of person just because of their skin color and no other reason at all then yes that is racist. For example, if you met someone lets say in a bar and they just started chatting with you and you both really had a lot in common in the chats you were having , but they were black you would do everything to avoid them because they were black. That is wrong and racist.



   I am not telling you anything ..... I merely quoted Mr James. He is the one doing the telling.


----------



## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

That has nothing to do with race ....... Mr Arbery grabbed the shotgun, IMO had he not .... he might well be alive today.

If you IYO believe the three white guys may have been racially motivated, in their citizens arrest ? That may be , I have no idea what was in their minds at the time . But that was not me, that was them. I would not have approached him, if I thought he was up to no good ? I would have called the police. Nothing more.

As for Chauvin ....... Yes I do support him in his action. Kneeling on the neck of a suspect was at the time an approved police tactic. Myself [and many others] believe that Mr. Floyd's drug infused condition is what killed him. And I'll also note that his resistance to the arrest , put him in that position.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> I am not telling you anything ..... I merely quoted Mr James. He is the one doing the telling.


Just read the fact checker on the article that the Lebron James statements were made about white people. Here is what the checked out about it:

Our rating: Partly false​We rate this claim PARTLY FALSE because some of it is not supported by our research. James did make comments about white people on an episode of his television show, but they referred to his past as a high school student at a predominantly white high school. The claim is inaccurate because it doesn't include James' full statement. Further, the claim is misleading in that it is posted years later, amid a time of protests over systematic racism and police brutality.


----------



## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Lebron James is currently playing for the Los Angeles Lakers NBA Basketball team. There is a player on the team named Austin Reeves who is white. Are you telling me that Lebron James does not associate with his own teammate and is not friends with his own teammate which he most likely spends the majority of his daily time with? That is complete bull.
> 
> I am not saying that Lebron James in his spare time doesn't choose to be around other black people because they are the people he feels he can associate with better for one reason or another, but to say he has zero white friends is ridiculous. His white teammate if anyone would ask him he would say he was a friend 100% for sure.
> 
> @rgb you can choose to be friends with whomever you please, but if you go around specifically trying to avoid one sort of person just because of their skin color and no other reason at all then yes that is racist. For example, if you met someone lets say in a bar and they just started chatting with you and you both really had a lot in common in the chats you were having , but they were black you would do everything to avoid them because they were black. That is wrong and racist.




   "@rgb you can choose to be friends with whomever you please, but if you go around specifically trying to avoid one sort of person just because of their skin color and no other reason at all then yes that is racist. For example, if you met someone lets say in a bar and they just started chatting with you and you both really had a lot in common in the chats you were having , but they were black you would do everything to avoid them because they were black. That is wrong and racist."

   So you take the right to tell me how to pick/choose my friends ......... and label me in the process ? That says more about you than it says about me .


----------



## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Just read the fact checker on the article that the Lebron James statements were made about white people. Here is what the checked out about it:
> 
> Our rating: Partly false​We rate this claim PARTLY FALSE because some of it is not supported by our research. James did make comments about white people on an episode of his television show, but they referred to his past as a high school student at a predominantly white high school. The claim is inaccurate because it doesn't include James' full statement. Further, the claim is misleading in that it is posted years later, amid a time of protests over systematic racism and police brutality.




 I watched the video where he stated what I posted ........ and i took the man at his word.


----------



## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> "@rgb you can choose to be friends with whomever you please, but if you go around specifically trying to avoid one sort of person just because of their skin color and no other reason at all then yes that is racist. For example, if you met someone lets say in a bar and they just started chatting with you and you both really had a lot in common in the chats you were having , but they were black you would do everything to avoid them because they were black. That is wrong and racist."
> 
> So you take the right to tell me how to pick/choose my friends ......... and label me in the process ? That says more about you than it says about me .


The first thing I stated is that you can choose to be friends with whomever you please. That is your right. It is your actions that you choose to discriminate against one person because of just there skin color which I am calling wrong not your choice of who you chose to be friends with or not. If you read the first thing I wrote you could see that. You don't know these people other then the color of there skin and you choose to turn them away solely because of that. That is what I have an issue with. Judging someone for the sole reason of the color of there skin. That is what makes you a racist not that you choose to befriend them or not. You can choose whomever you want to associate with or not, but not to give someone even a chance because of something as petty as the color of ones ridiculous.


----------



## ohioboy (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> As for Chauvin ....... Yes I do support him in his action. Kneeling on the neck of a suspect was at the time an approved police tactic.


Did the manual also quote a time frame? If it was permitted, then it could have been applied for 2 hours, right?


----------



## win231 (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> That has nothing to do with race ....... Mr Arbery grabbed the shotgun, IMO had he not .... he might well be alive today.
> 
> If you IYO believe the three white guys may have been racially motivated, in their citizens arrest ? That may be , I have no idea what was in their minds at the time . But that was not me, that was them. I would not have approached him, if I thought he was up to no good ? I would have called the police. Nothing more.
> 
> As for Chauvin ....... Yes I do support him in his action. Kneeling on the neck of a suspect was at the time an approved police tactic. Myself [and many others] believe that Mr. Floyd's drug infused condition is what killed him. And I'll also note that his resistance to the arrest , put him in that position.


I don't need to say a word.  You're doin' fine.  Easier 'n shootin' fish in a barrel.


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## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> The first thing I stated is that you can choose to be friends with whomever you please. That is your right. It is your actions that you choose to discriminate against one person because of just there skin color which I am calling wrong not your choice of who you chose to be friends with or not. If you read the first thing I wrote you could see that. You don't know these people other then the color of there skin and you choose to turn them away solely because of that. That is what I have an issue with. Judging someone for the sole reason of the color of there skin. That is what makes you a racist not that you choose to befriend them or not. You can choose whomever you want to associate with or not, but not to give someone even a chance because of something as petty as the color of ones ridiculous.




   So my reasons are wrong IYO ? Well it has nothing to do with the color of their skin. It has only to do with their actions & my experience with them. And there again you  ....... like @win231 just cannot accept that ....... you & he just must label me. 

Well, your opinion means nothing to me so ..........


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## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> Did the manual also quote a time frame? If it was permitted, then it could have been applied for 2 hours, right?




 I never said any such thing ...... I said it was an approved tactic , perhaps he [Chauvin] just did not realize how long it had been ? I will give the benefit of doubt to the police officer as opposed to giving it to the drug addled street thug/ex-con.


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## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> So my reasons are wrong IYO ? Well it has nothing to do with the color of their skin. It has only to do with their actions & my experience with them. And there again you  ....... like @win231 just cannot accept that ....... you & he just must label me.
> 
> Well, your opinion means nothing to me so ..........


Have you met every black person? I imagine the percentage of those people that you have come across has been a pretty small percentage of the overall population. To discriminate against all because of just a small percentage well that just leaves me shaking my head as well.


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## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Have you met every black person? I imagine the percentage of those people that you have come across has been a pretty small percentage of the overall population. To discriminate against all because of just a small percentage well that just leaves me shaking my head as well.




   "Well, your opinion means nothing to me so .........."


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## ohioboy (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> I never said any such thing ...... I said it was an approved tactic , perhaps he [Chauvin] just did not realize how long it had been ? I will give the benefit of doubt to the police officer as opposed to giving it to the drug addled street thug/ex-con.


Assuming Chauvin was not cognizant to the time that elapsed, then that is criminal Negligence.


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## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> "Well, your opinion means nothing to me so .........."


I figured that was going to be your response.


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## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I figured that was going to be your response.




  What else is there ? You disagree with my reasoning & choices , and you feel a need to label me. Does labeling me make you feel superior ?


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## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> Assuming Chauvin was not cognizant to the time that elapsed, then that is criminal Negligence.




  If you ever have a criminal problem ....... do not call the police, call a street thug.

  As I said, I will always give the benefit of doubt to the police officer ....... apparently you prefer the thugs.


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## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> What else is there ? You disagree with my reasoning & choices , and you feel a need to label me. Does labeling me make you feel superior ?


Oh I am certainly not superior. I have never seen myself as superior to anyone. If anything I have seen myself as inferior to people. I have only a high school education and have only pretty much been a stay at home mom and housewife my entire married life although I will never say that has been easy, but no I have never seen myself as being superior to anyone. I am like everyone else who has her faults. I just look at everyone as equal no matter race, gender, religion, sexuality, or whatever. I just feel you do not do the same.


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## ohioboy (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> As I said, I will always give the benefit of doubt to the police officer .....


Good thing the Jury did not!


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## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Oh I am certainly not superior. I have never seen myself as superior to anyone. If anything I have seen myself as inferior to people. I have only a high school education and have only pretty much been a stay at home mom and housewife my entire married life although I will never say that has been easy, but no I have never seen myself as being superior to anyone. I am like everyone else who has her faults. I just look at everyone as equal no matter race, gender, religion, sexuality, or whatever. I just feel you do not do the same.




  "I just feel you do not do the same."

 Well ........ you would be incorrect . I just avoid some in my social circles , and I do have a right to do so. And i sleep just fine.


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## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> Good thing the Jury did not!




 IYO a good thing ....... IMO I truly wish they would have.

 And again opinion ........... I think the main reason they did not was the threat of Minn/St Paul burning to the ground.


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## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> "I just feel you do not do the same."
> 
> Well ........ you would be incorrect . I just avoid some in my social circles , and I do have a right to do so. And i sleep just fine.


Now that is different than avoiding an entire race because of a few bad apples.Of course there is going to be bad apples in every race, religion or whatever you may come across and yes to associate with them if you feel they will bring you and your family down is one thing, but to wrap an entire race or religion or whatever to that because of just a few bad apples then that is not the correct approach.


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## Lewkat (Feb 1, 2022)

MMinSoCal said:


> CDC thinks it's OK!


Usually 48 hours after testing positive, transmission is no longer a threat.


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## rgp (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Now that is different than avoiding an entire race because of a few bad apples.Of course there is going to be bad apples in every race, religion or whatever you may come across and yes to associate with them if you feel they will bring you and your family down is one thing, but to wrap an entire race or religion or whatever to that because of just a few bad apples then that is not the correct approach.




 Well .......... If I may change ? That is your opinion & I respect it ......... I may not agree, but I do respect you & your opinion.


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## Shero (Feb 1, 2022)

Wow, another fight going on in here! Geez meez, people call on the angels and find some peace will you!


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## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> Well .......... If I may change ? That is your opinion & I respect it ......... I may not agree, but I do respect you & your opinion.


Like I have said people will always disagree. That is what people do. I just will always look at every person as equal no matter what their race, religion, gender or sexuality is.


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## ohioboy (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Like I have said people will always disagree. That is what people do. I just will always look at every person as equal no matter what their race, religion, gender or sexuality is.


I am Superior to all!


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## Lewkat (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> Are you telling me that they are making up false death certificates and that many people have not died? If so, you have lost your mind.


The fact is: numbers are skewed by listing deaths being caused by COVID, when in fact, people died from other causes and were found to test positive for COVID post mortem.   Big difference in every way.


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## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

Lewkat said:


> The fact is: numbers are skewed by listing deaths being caused by COVID, when in fact, people died from other causes and were found to test positive for COVID post mortem.   Big difference in every way.


I was disputing that he was saying that the numbers were just higher and that many deaths didn't even happen. So what I was saying is if he thought doctors were actually filling out false death certificates of deaths that didn't even occur at all?


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## Lewkat (Feb 1, 2022)

At any rate, several news sites did report today from various parts of the globe that Omicron has hit bottom and no longer the threat that it was.  But, some so called scientist will alarmingly come along and warn about another stealth variant more deadly than the last.  Just use your own methods of protecting yourselves if you are fearful.  No point in all this ridiculous bickering as it resolves absolutely nothing and is utterly childish.  One can just jump to another thread anytime.


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## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

Lewkat said:


> At any rate, several news sites did report today from various parts of the globe that Omicron has hit bottom and no longer the threat that it was.  But, some so called scientist will alarmingly come along and warn about another stealth variant more deadly than the last.  Just use your own methods of protecting yourselves if you are fearful.  No point in all this ridiculous bickering as it resolves absolutely nothing and is utterly childish.  One can just jump to another thread anytime.


I agree with you and I do hope that the Omicron variant is coming to an end. People do not seem to understand though that what viruses do are mutate that is the main reason why they come up with a different type of shot every year for the flu because it is a different strand of flu virus. The same can be said for this virus. So yes down the road there just might be another variant to deal with and hopefully by then countries will be even more prepared to deal with it and it will last even less time and so on and so on until these mutations are pretty much meaningless. I hope that is the case. 

You are also correct that we all just need to choose our own methods to stay safe no matter what and I have taken that stance pretty much from the beginning of all of this.


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## win231 (Feb 1, 2022)

Shero said:


> Wow, another fight going on in here! Geez meez, people call on the angels and find some peace will you!


Yeah!  And it ain't got nuttin' to do with a vaccine!


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## garyt1957 (Feb 1, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> actually to be entirely pedantic... 50 million people died from the Spanish flu


Pretty sure he meant this century


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## garyt1957 (Feb 1, 2022)

I'm back to pretty normal living. I only wear a mask where it's mandated. I go to the casino, movie theatre, restaurants, play pickleball, go to the gym, been on a plane. I have to confess I do use covid to get out of things I don't really want to do. My wife wanted me to go to a concert and I used "Well, maybe we shouldn't with covid" Worked too.


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## Jeni (Feb 1, 2022)

On the original subject:  Opening back up after ...

we had two larger employers ready to pull the plug .... this waiting for things to get back to normal has Yet to see the other shoe drop. 
Even with some people resuming a fairly normal routine the economic impact is delayed in some areas/ industries and I can only imagine more businesses held on as long as they could but cannot play this just wait game any longer. 
Then what if places close jobs lost even if  we OPEN some business has been slowing bleeding out and for some this may be too late. 
Things are often connected ... business lost .. suppliers to that business suffer it is a domino effect. 
Maybe some other countries want to avoid that and see a future problem ....
The US seems to be bickering so much we are not seeing the forest .....because trees are in our way.....


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## Becky1951 (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I agree with you and I do hope that the Omicron variant is coming to an end. People do not seem to understand though that what viruses do are mutate that is the main reason why they come up with a different type of shot every year for the flu because it is a different strand of flu virus. The same can be said for this virus. So yes down the road there just might be another variant to deal with and hopefully by then countries will be even more prepared to deal with it and it will last even less time and so on and so on until these mutations are pretty much meaningless. I hope that is the case.
> 
> You are also correct that we all just need to choose our own methods to stay safe no matter what and I have taken that stance pretty much from the beginning of all of this.


"People do not seem to understand though that what viruses do are mutate that is the main reason why they come up with a different type of shot every year for the flu because it is a different strand of flu virus. The same can be said for this virus."

I've been in this forum awhile, everyone here does understand viruses mutate and another mutation may be worse.

But we cannot live our lives in daily fear of that happening, and news outlets, experts continue pushing the *fear.....daily*.

I'm sure we don't forget within 24 hours. Theres a difference in forgetting your keys and forgetting a virus we have lived with for the past 2 years.

We can only do what each of us feel is right for us, take whatever precautions we're comfortable with.


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## win231 (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I was disputing that he was saying that the numbers were just higher and that many deaths didn't even happen. So what I was saying is if he thought doctors were actually filling out false death certificates of deaths that didn't even occur at all?


https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/07/covid19-death-certificate-change-stirs-controversy


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## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> "People do not seem to understand though that what viruses do are mutate that is the main reason why they come up with a different type of shot every year for the flu because it is a different strand of flu virus. The same can be said for this virus."
> 
> I've been in this forum awhile, everyone here does understand viruses mutate and another mutation may be worse.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. I don't live in fear of this virus by locking myself in my house away from everything. I do pretty much everything the same other than I choose to wear a mask which I do not find to be a hindrance and it does give me comfort right now. I certainly want this all to come to an end and pray each night that it will. I also however have to think logically and realistically as well on how this has gone. I am not just going to wake up one day and say to myself Oh I am going to go back to the way it was before all this started because logically that would not in my opinion be in my best interest. So I go about my days wearing my mask and doing what pretty much I have always done. I will go out to dinner with my husband from time to time. Go to the theater as well. I go to church. I just wear my mask and use hand sanitizer and I feel that is what i need to do.


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## Rah-Rah (Feb 1, 2022)

win231 said:


> https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/07/covid19-death-certificate-change-stirs-controversy


I understand that fully that many have believe that to be the source of inflated Covid death numbers. What I thought you were saying is that doctors were filling out death certificates for fake people who didn't even die to raise the number of Covid deaths. Maybe I misinterpreted what you posted. I do not believe that doctors made up death certificates for fake deaths to inflate the Covid numbers.


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## dseag2 (Feb 1, 2022)

Becky1951 said:


> "People do not seem to understand though that what viruses do are mutate that is the main reason why they come up with a different type of shot every year for the flu because it is a different strand of flu virus. The same can be said for this virus."
> 
> I've been in this forum awhile, everyone here does understand viruses mutate and another mutation may be worse.
> 
> ...


Well said @Becky1951!


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## win231 (Feb 1, 2022)

Rah-Rah said:


> I understand that fully that many have believe that to be the source of inflated Covid death numbers. What I thought you were saying is that doctors were filling out death certificates for fake people who didn't even die to raise the number of Covid deaths. Maybe I misinterpreted what you posted.


No, I don't think doctors would fill out death certificates for fake people.  I doubt there would be any incentive for that.
But there is a case on its way to court involving an ER nurse who is suing the hospital she was fired from.  (I can't find a link on the web)
A patient was brought in who had fatal head injuries in a traffic accident.  The doctor ordered the nurse to list the cause of death as Covid because his blood supposedly tested positive.  She refused, so she was fired.


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## Jeni (Feb 1, 2022)

win231 said:


> No, I don't think doctors would fill out death certificates for fake people.  I doubt there would be any incentive for that.
> But there is a case on its way to court involving an ER nurse who is suing the hospital she was fired from.  (I can't find a link on the web)
> A patient was brought in who had fatal head injuries in a traffic accident.  The doctor ordered the nurse to list the cause of death as Covid because his blood supposedly tested positive.  She refused, so she was fired.


It was a money game ... hospitals showing larger covid numbers got emergency  funds.... 

I think we ALL wish that honesty and real concern for leaning about this as fast as possible was the road taken.... 
but when you try to allocate funds not just based on lets say population of state / city but as even as you can by number of cases ... 
guess what working the numbers WAS played.    No one will be held accountable and next time something happens the same lousy data will happen.


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