# 5 Differences Between Retirement Homes & Long Term Care Homes



## Keesha (Aug 30, 2018)

In the last few months I’ve discovered that my parents family doctor thinks my parents should be in a home. After a meeting with their health care workers , ( supervisors ) I’ve also been informed that within a year or so my parents will need to move from their home. 


Neither of my parents want to go into a retirement home, nor do I blame them. 
I’d be digging my heels in also but I’m starting to see some pros in the idea. 
They will have people their own age to socialize with. They will have on site health care. They will have access to exercise equipment and possibly a pool. 
They’d have their meals made for them. 
Cleaning will be done for them. 


Unfortunately I don’t know much about how retirement housing works or the different plans involved but I’m learning. 
I’m not sure what differences there are from country to country but here there are two types to choose from; Retirement Homes OR Long Term Care. I was under the impression that if parents needed to go into a retirement home that their house would automatically be taken away but apparently that’s not the case. 


While at the meeting this week I felt BOTH women encourage me to get my parents into Long Term Care so I looked it up and here’s what I found out. 



https://www.seniorszen.com/blog/2015/05/05/these-5-differences-between-ontario-retirement-hom


There are many differences between these two plans. 


1/. Retirement homes are something you decide to move into. With LTC homes, the government decides. 


2/. Retirement homes aren’t part of the governments health care plan  but long term care homes are.


3/. You can come and go as you please ( meaning long term traveling ) in retirement homes, in an LTC home, not so much. 


4/. You be evicted from retirement homes. 
You can’t in LTC homes. 


5/. If things go wrong in a retirement home it is dealt with by. The retirement homes regulatory authority. LTC homes operate under an umbrella of the Ministry of Health and Longterm care. 


The health care professionals suggested we get one of my parents in first. Once one gets in they said it’s easier to get the other in.  


Since my parents are alcoholics, then going into a regular retirement home could prove problematic, especially knowing they can be evicted.  


The healthcare part would be payed for by the government with Long Term Care which I rather like. 


Long term care homes are gender organized, meaning they couldn’t sleep together but they don’t sleep together anyway. 


I’m really glad they are getting daily visits to help them out because it’s really made a difference to the quality of their lives. 
Information about my parents health is being documented so it’s comforting knowing that others can help out when these decisions need to made . My dad won’t leave without a fight and I cant blame him but the fact is that the government can force him to go into a home due to medical reasons. 


If anyone has any relevant information about these two differences in health care retirement plans , please let us know. 
I’m hoping this information helps others also. 


Thank you


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## RadishRose (Aug 30, 2018)

I have no knowledge but I wish the best and easy transition for your parents and you. I wonder how the alcoholism will be dealt with. I never thought of that before. They can't force them not to drink, can they?

So glad you're getting help with this.


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## C'est Moi (Aug 30, 2018)

Good luck, Keesha.   Not sure what the differences are between the US and Canada and I don't know much about it.   My little MIL has home health care (Visiting Angels) who spend 2 hours with her twice a day on weekdays.   (11 am - 1 pm) and 4 pm - 6 pm)   They make sure she has meals and takes her meds as prescribed.   She is 84 and doing very well still living in her own home.   

My husband and his 2 siblings also go by to check on her several times a week and on weekends and have installed a camera system so they can see what's going on in her house on their cell phones at any time.   They also take care of her home maintenance, grocery shopping, finances, etc.


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 31, 2018)

I don't know anything about the Canadian system but the fact that your parents are getting daily visits means that they already have a _toe_ in the system.  I would let the caregiver's evaluations/recommendations be the determining factor of what happens going forward.

Good luck!


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## StarSong (Aug 31, 2018)

Hi Keesha,

I have some experience with shepherding parents and in-laws though this on the US side of the border.  We generally use the term Assisted Living (or AL) for the kind of retirement homes you mentioned, and I'm assuming the Long Term Care facilities are what we call either convalescent homes, or Skilled Nursing Facilities (SNF).

AL: Wheelchair or walkers, dispensing vitamins and medications including insulin, driving to doctor appointments, some light assistance with bathing or dressing, and even adult diaper use, would be a yes for AL.  There's a basic rent amount which includes room and board.   All else is a la carte.  The more services the resident requires, the higher the monthly rate.  Many ALs have an RN or LPN on staff for at least 8 hours a day.    

Most ALs also have a Memory Care unit for people with severe cognitive losses, or those with moderate losses but have become "wanderers."  Memory Care residents require more care and the rates are therefore higher.  

ALs have codes of conduct.  They can - and do - evict residents who are difficult, disruptive or whose care needs exceed what the facility can provide.  Active alcoholism is usually not tolerated for very long.  (My dear friend's difficult father was kicked out of several places because of his drinking problems.  The experience was a nightmare, much like having a troubled teen who repeatedly gets suspended or expelled from school.)  

SNFs are for people with medical conditions that go beyond what the AL  and the residents themselves are able to manage.  Without getting too  deeply into the ins and outs of it, SNFs in the US  are typically covered by Medicare for up to 100 days.  After that the  patients have to pony up and spend down their own assets.  SNFs look a  lot like hospitals.  Often there are a couple of beds to a room, there  are RNs on staff, fully staffed PT rooms with therapists who coordinate care with the patients' doctors, and MDs frequent the  places.  Many SNF residents are there for short term stints on a step-down basis from hospitalizations.  People are  there out of medical necessity. 

Many ALs are quite nice and lean toward amenities one might find in a nice hotel or cruise ship.  SNFs tend to be like hospitals in that people are eager to leave as soon as they can.  

I hope this is helpful and wish you the best.


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## Keesha (Sep 5, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> I have no knowledge but I wish the best and easy transition for your parents and you. I wonder how the alcoholism will be dealt with. I never thought of that before. They can't force them not to drink, can they?
> 
> So glad you're getting help with this.


The alcoholism is something I’m very concerned about. They drink an incredible amount; 5 or 6 ( 26 ounce bottles of brandy ), 
a bottle of scotch , a few ( 3 litre ) boxes of wine, and about 30 or 40 tall imported beers in a months time. It seem like an awful lot to me and they fight and get nasty with each other at times and even though they are used to it, others aren’t. If they were to go into a retirement home where they had their own apartment, there’s a very good chance they be kicked out ( evicted ) and it really worries me. Plus it’s harder for their body to heal with all this drinking they are doing. They rarely go outside for some sunlight or fresh air. This is the lifestyle they are used to and it’s quite sad.

Thanks for your support RaddishRose. It’s much appreciated.


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## Keesha (Sep 5, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> Good luck, Keesha.   Not sure what the differences are between the US and Canada and I don't know much about it.   My little MIL has home health care (Visiting Angels) who spend 2 hours with her twice a day on weekdays.   (11 am - 1 pm) and 4 pm - 6 pm)   They make sure she has meals and takes her meds as prescribed.   She is 84 and doing very well still living in her own home.
> 
> My husband and his 2 siblings also go by to check on her several times a week and on weekends and have installed a camera system so they can see what's going on in her house on their cell phones at any time.   They also take care of her home maintenance, grocery shopping, finances, etc.



Thank you C’est Moi for your support. Your MIL sounds like she’s well cared for by the visiting angels and family. My mom will be 84 this February and my dad will be 89 this December. We have a non profit organization called VON who visit them daily including weekends and holidays. They do light housekeeping including cleaning the fridge however my father is giving the people a difficult time throwing things out including rotting food from the fridge. My father suffers with OCD and unfortunately it has gotten worse with age. I’m somehow going to need to intervene somehow to help with this situation because these ladies are appearing afraid of him which REALLY bothers me.


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## Keesha (Sep 5, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I don't know anything about the Canadian system but the fact that your parents are getting daily visits means that they already have a _toe_ in the system.  I would let the caregiver's evaluations/recommendations be the determining factor of what happens going forward.
> 
> Good luck!


You are EXACTLY right Aunt Bea. I WILL let the caregivers decide when my parents need to go into a home. This way I’m kept out of the decision making and perhaps will gain some trust from them. I don’t want them feeling like we are trying to take their home away from them. They’ve had this same property since 1972 so are accustomed to it. Allowing them to stay as long as they possibly can IS following their wishes which I’d very much like to do. I think these caregivers were trying to reassure me that my brother and I don’t have to make that choice nor are we qualified to do so, which is wonderful news. 
If my father needs to go in long term care first then my mom won’t last long because my father does all the cooking and cleaning but always has. She won’t be able to manage on her own without him. 
If she goes first I don’t know if he can handle being on his own. Like my own husband, he hates being in his own. 

Caring for aging parents is really difficult and an emotionally roller coaster to deal with. Thank you for the practical advice  Aunt Bea.


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## Keesha (Sep 5, 2018)

StarSong said:


> Hi Keesha,
> 
> I have some experience with shepherding parents and in-laws though this on the US side of the border.  We generally use the term Assisted Living (or AL) for the kind of retirement homes you mentioned, and I'm assuming the Long Term Care facilities are what we call either convalescent homes, or Skilled Nursing Facilities (SNF).
> 
> ...



Thank you for all the information you have provided. It appears like our services here are quite similar to yours but with different names. It’s very helpful to know so thank you Starsong. 
Heres some additional information for Canadians going through this transition. 

http://www.comfortlife.ca/retirement-communities/ontario-independent-living


http://www.orcaretirement.com/retirement-living/types-of-care/


Here is information about resources to help in the transition. 
https://www.aplaceformom.com/canada/how-to-pay-for-senior-housing


https://www.ontario.ca/page/seniors-find-place-to-live


https://www.seniorszen.com/care/province/ontario


Here’s a new idea for for retirement living for those opposed to the old idea of nursing homes. 
You get together with other people and share retirement. It actually makes retirement housing ( living ) sound exciting. 


http://www.canadianliving.com/life-...forgo-a-retirement-home-for-a-co-living-space


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## RadishRose (Sep 5, 2018)

Lots of information here.


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## C'est Moi (Sep 5, 2018)

For USA residents, I would like to point out something to those of you who have Long Term Care insurance.   As I previously stated,  my MIL is  mostly housebound (no longer drives) and receives home healthcare visits to assist because she wants to remain in her home.  This in-home care is covered by her LTC insurance, and I imagine it is much more cost-effective than if she were living in a facility.   

It seems that every few weeks, my  husband has to do battle with the LTC provider over her coverage.   They  raise premiums, require all sorts of paperwork from doctors, try to  deny coverage... it's a never-ending battle.   MIL has been evaluated and re-evaluated by their specialist; her own doctor's order was insufficient.  (She has memory problems but no "dementia" diagnosis yet, gets confused with medications, etc.)    As with most types of  insurance, the LTC coverage providers put a lot of effort into trying to figure out how NOT to pay for her care. 


If  my MIL had to deal with the LTC provider on her own, she'd be confused  and bamboozled into receiving NO BENEFIT.   So please don't assume that  because you have paid for long term care that it will be a walk in the  park "when the time comes."   It's a bunch of on-going red tape that someone will  need to be willing and able to handle, and it never ends.


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## StarSong (Sep 5, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> For USA residents, I would like to point out something to those of you who have Long Term Care insurance.   As I previously stated,  my MIL is  mostly housebound (no longer drives) and receives home healthcare visits to assist because she wants to remain in her home.  This in-home care is covered by her LTC insurance, and I imagine it is much more cost-effective than if she were living in a facility.
> 
> It seems that every few weeks, my  husband has to do battle with the LTC provider over her coverage.   They  raise premiums, require all sorts of paperwork from doctors, try to  deny coverage... it's a never-ending battle.   MIL has been evaluated and re-evaluated by their specialist; her own doctor's order was insufficient.  (She has memory problems but no "dementia" diagnosis yet, gets confused with medications, etc.) *   As with most types of  insurance, the LTC coverage providers put a lot of effort into trying to figure out how NOT to pay for her care.
> *
> ...



I second this, CM.  I've had to sort out Medicare bills for my mom and in-laws that they couldn't manage themselves.  One bill was over $47,000 dollars and my FIL was prepared to pay it until I stepped in.  It took months of diligent follow-up and hounding to get the error fixed.

Without a diagnosis that falls in a fairly narrow framework, Assisted Living is not covered by LTC Insurance.  Nursing homes and SNFs, generally yes.  ALs, generally no.  

Your in-laws are fortunate to have you and your husband taking this on for them.  The sentence I bolded in your quote is the ever-loving truth.


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## Butterfly (Sep 6, 2018)

Keesha said:


> The alcoholism is something I’m very concerned about. They drink an incredible amount; 5 or 6 ( 26 ounce bottles of brandy ),
> a bottle of scotch , a few ( 3 litre ) boxes of wine, and about 30 or 40 tall imported beers in a months time. It seem like an awful lot to me and they fight and get nasty with each other at times and even though they are used to it, others aren’t. If they were to go into a retirement home where they had their own apartment, there’s a very good chance they be kicked out ( evicted ) and it really worries me. Plus it’s harder for their body to heal with all this drinking they are doing. They rarely go outside for some sunlight or fresh air. This is the lifestyle they are used to and it’s quite sad.
> 
> Thanks for your support RaddishRose. It’s much appreciated.



Keesha, if their health is so poor, how do they get their alcohol?  Does one of them still drive?  If they went into a treatment home, would the home restrict their access to alcohol?  I am pretty certain that a nursing  home would do so.

I have dealt with alcoholics, and I believe there is just a point where you simply have to let go and let them self-destruct if they are going to.   I'm so sorry you have to go through this.


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## Keesha (Sep 6, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> For USA residents, I would like to point out something to those of you who have Long Term Care insurance.   As I previously stated,  my MIL is  mostly housebound (no longer drives) and receives home healthcare visits to assist because she wants to remain in her home.  This in-home care is covered by her LTC insurance, and I imagine it is much more cost-effective than if she were living in a facility.
> 
> It seems that every few weeks, my  husband has to do battle with the LTC provider over her coverage.   They  raise premiums, require all sorts of paperwork from doctors, try to  deny coverage... it's a never-ending battle.   MIL has been evaluated and re-evaluated by their specialist; her own doctor's order was insufficient.  (She has memory problems but no "dementia" diagnosis yet, gets confused with medications, etc.)    As with most types of  insurance, the LTC coverage providers put a lot of effort into trying to figure out how NOT to pay for her care.
> 
> ...



We current don’t have to deal with this but I’m quite certain we will be later on. Insurance companies can sure be scammers. 
My fathers insurance for traveling became so much that they couldn’t afford to drive down to Florida any more. This is actually a blessing for them because that is a really long drive and I’m actually surprised my father still has a licence. He had a mini stroke a while back. My father in law had a mini stroke and they revoked his licence for about 3 months and then retested him to get his licence back and he passed. 

Insurance companies are scammers. Of course they don’t want to offer coverage. From my understanding , they don’t pay for long term care; they only pay for their accommodation or rooming fees. I don’t assume this will be a walk in the park on any level. I’m just happy that I’m figuring out some if it . For a while my brother and I were totally clueless but gradually we are learning. 

Thanks again for sharing your story C’est Moi.


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## Keesha (Sep 6, 2018)

StarSong said:


> I second this, CM.  I've had to sort out Medicare bills for my mom and in-laws that they couldn't manage themselves.  One bill was over $47,000 dollars and my FIL was prepared to pay it until I stepped in.  It took months of diligent follow-up and hounding to get the error fixed.
> 
> Without a diagnosis that falls in a fairly narrow framework, Assisted Living is not covered by LTC Insurance.  Nursing homes and SNFs, generally yes.  ALs, generally no.
> 
> Your in-laws are fortunate to have you and your husband taking this on for them.  The sentence I bolded in your quote is the ever-loving truth.



The good news for us is that the people that are working for my parents ARE qualified to make the decision that my parents need long term health care and it IS paid for by the government . From my understanding, once they get in, they’re in . 
I trust that these people know what they are talking about.


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## Keesha (Sep 6, 2018)

Butterfly said:


> Keesha, if their health is so poor, how do they get their alcohol?  Does one of them still drive?  If they went into a treatment home, would the home restrict their access to alcohol?  I am pretty certain that a nursing  home would do so.
> 
> I have dealt with alcoholics, and I believe there is just a point where you simply have to let go and let them self-destruct if they are going to.   I'm so sorry you have to go through this.



Yes, apparently both my parents still have their licence to drive. They’ve both had mini strokes but my father said his doctor only suggested that he doesn’t drive. I know my FIL had a mini stroke this year and his licence was completely revoked for a few months and he had to be retested to get it back and passed successfully. He was happy that he wasn’t asked to parallel park. Lol. My father could possibly be lying. 


So yes my father manages to drive himself  into town, go grocery shopping , purchase the groceries  they require yet can’t put their garbage out. They basically just do want they want now. When I first connected with them two years ago there were over 30 bags of garbage in their basement. Without going into details , it was really disgusting but basically they just stopped throwing it out and perhaps just adapted to the smell. The smell of their house is something I’ve been working on since I first reconnected with them because I have to go there too. 


If they go into a retirement home voluntarily, then they would have their own facility and be able to drink and would most likely get evicted because with this type of retirement living , they can be evicted. With Long Term Care retirement living, they don’t get their own room. In fact, they aren’t even allowed to live together since it  is  gender divided. They would be sharing rooms with others but would have full medical services 24/7 fully paid for by our government. This type of facility they would NOT be able to drink like they do nor can they be evicted from the facility. It’s illegal to do so. 


This is why this type of retirement living would suite them best and it allows them to stay in their home the maximum amount of time which was their ultimate wish which makes my brother and I very relieved. And yes they definitely ARE going to self destruct and it’s heart breaking to witness but there’s only so much we can do. My brother isn’t  anywhere near as emotional as I am. When he goes there he treats them and the role like a job. There’s not a lot of interaction between them but he gets what he needs to get done and leaves. I’m actually learning from my brother because I’m finding this approach VERY helpful while dealing with them otherwise I’d be a total basket case.


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## StarSong (Sep 6, 2018)

Keesha said:


> Yes, apparently both my parents still have their licence to drive. They’ve both had mini strokes but my father said his doctor only suggested that he doesn’t drive. I know my FIL had a mini stroke this year and his licence was completely revoked for a few months and he had to be retested to get it back and passed successfully. He was happy that he wasn’t asked to parallel park. Lol. My father could possibly be lying.
> 
> 
> So yes my father manages to drive himself  into town, go grocery shopping , purchase the groceries  they require yet can’t put their garbage out. They basically just do want they want now. When I first connected with them two years ago there were over 30 bags of garbage in their basement. Without going into details , it was really disgusting but basically they just stopped throwing it out and perhaps just adapted to the smell. The smell of their house is something I’ve been working on since I first reconnected with them because I have to go there too.
> ...




What a difficult situation this is, Keesha.  May you find a way to help them while keeping their problems from infecting you and causing you a lot of  heartache.


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## Keesha (Sep 6, 2018)

Thank you Starsong. It’s going to be a challenge for sure.


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## Lara (Sep 9, 2018)

Keesha said:


> The alcoholism is something I’m very concerned about. They drink an incredible amount; 5 or 6 ( 26 ounce bottles of brandy ),
> a bottle of scotch , a few ( 3 litre ) boxes of wine, and about 30 or 40 tall imported beers in a months time. It seem like an awful lot to me and they fight and get nasty with each other at times and even though they are used to it, others aren’t.


I feel for you Keesha, and your parents, and the caregivers but I agree to leave the decisions up to the professionals and then your parents can't blame you for anything. 

I can't imagine that their liver and kidneys aren't already damaged at this point not to mention all of the other negative health affects of alcoholism, some  life threatening. I can't see that alcoholics would be welcomed into a retirement community of any sort, especially with anger and loud yelling issues when drunk. 

And I can't imagine the difficulty of going through withdrawal symptoms at their age. Government assisted long-term care is probably what the professionals will recommend. You and all involved are in my prayers.


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## C'est Moi (Sep 9, 2018)

StarSong said:


> I second this, CM.  I've had to sort out Medicare bills for my mom and in-laws that they couldn't manage themselves.  One bill was over $47,000 dollars and my FIL was prepared to pay it until I stepped in.  It took months of diligent follow-up and hounding to get the error fixed.
> 
> Without a diagnosis that falls in a fairly narrow framework, Assisted Living is not covered by LTC Insurance.  Nursing homes and SNFs, generally yes.  ALs, generally no.
> 
> Your in-laws are fortunate to have you and your husband taking this on for them.  The sentence I bolded in your quote is the ever-loving truth.



Thanks.   I often hear people stating that they are "secure" because they have paid expensive premiums for Long Term Care insurance and I wonder if they have any idea of the red tape that awaits.   Seems to me that people who need the LTC are the very ones who will not be able to handle all the challenges to their coverage, so they likely will need an advocate.


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## Keesha (Sep 17, 2018)

I’m quickly learning not to involve my parents in more things than need be. 
For weeks now I’ve been trying to keep my father posted on things but I’m learning that the less options he has to choose from the better he is to deal with. Dealing with some forgetfulness along with OCD is tough. 

Another mistake I’ve made is making how much they drink my business. It’s not. When the time comes when they need to move, the people in charge will deal with that because it’s not my concern. 

Learning how to communicate seems to be key and at times I mess up BUT I’m learning.


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## StarSong (Sep 17, 2018)

Keesha said:


> *When the time comes when they need to move, the people in charge will deal with that because it’s not my concern. *



Given what little I know of you, Keesha, I'm fairly confident that if your get kicked out of a facility you are highly unlikely to turn your back on them, so it will become your concern.  You might not be able to control their drinking, but their alcoholism will likely pop up on your radar screen until they are no longer able to procure alcohol.  

All kinds of new and interesting challenges crop up when people with cognitive losses get help, whether that comes in the form of visiting caregivers or facility living.  You'd be stunned at how many people confusedly pick up and wear someone else's dentures, money (that may or may not have actually existed) gets reported missing, formerly mild-mannered men develop aggressively roving hands, your parents' jacket gets picked up by someone else in the dining room (and unless you point it out neither resident realizes who originally owned that garment), some will argue over twenty-five cent bingo like it's Blackbeard's treasure, and so forth. 

As long as your parents don't indulge in deal-breakers, they and you should be ok.  I think you're wise to do most of the decision making on their behalf.  Do you have medical and legal power of attorney?       

Parents in ALs or SNFs can be a wild (and occasionally hilarious) ride.  I won't bore you with stories of my experiences with parents in those types of facilities, but trust me that a good sense of humor on your part will be a necessity.


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## ray188 (Sep 17, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> Thanks.   I often hear people stating that they are "secure" because they have paid expensive premiums for Long Term Care insurance and I wonder if they have any idea of the red tape that awaits.   Seems to me that people who need the LTC are the very ones who will not be able to handle all the challenges to their coverage, so they likely will need an advocate.


When you think about it - some of us will get to the point that we can't even write a check. LTC is for the "other" partner or those with the responsibility for the elderly person. 

We are thinking of the "next step". There is the CCRC approach where you put a lot up front and keep a lot in reserve. We are going a different route - LTC. I sure it works out.


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## jujube (Sep 17, 2018)

Keesha, you will be in my thoughts during this time.  You're entering a _damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't _situation.  My only advice would be to keep them in their home as long as you can.  Trying to get good home care, though, is not easy.  

You're right that an AL will kick them out as soon as they start causing trouble.  Unfortunately, SNF's also have their own sneaky ways to get rid of "problem" patients.  The Spousal Equivalent's mom developed dementia on the third day she was in the SNF and they were making strong noises that we'd have to move her to another facility that had a "memory unit".  She died only days later.


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## C'est Moi (Sep 17, 2018)

ray188 said:


> When you think about it - some of us will get to the point that we can't even write a check. LTC is for the "other" partner or those with the responsibility for the elderly person.
> 
> We are thinking of the "next step". There is the CCRC approach where you put a lot up front and keep a lot in reserve. We are going a different route - LTC. I sure it works out.



From what I have read of "CCRCs", the upfront costs are $100,000 to $1 million.   Uhhhh, I don't think so.


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## ray188 (Sep 18, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> From what I have read of "CCRCs", the upfront costs are $100,000 to $1 million.   Uhhhh, I don't think so.


Yes, there is a big up-front const plus a "reserve" requirement. But, they cover youfor, should you need them, long term care including memory (that can be very expensive).  LTC to cover that is also expensive.

A poster I recently saw applies - "I hope to die in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming and yelling like his passengers".


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 20, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> For USA residents, I would like to point out something to those of you who have Long Term Care insurance.   As I previously stated,  my MIL is  mostly housebound (no longer drives) and receives home healthcare visits to assist because she wants to remain in her home.  This in-home care is covered by her LTC insurance, and I imagine it is much more cost-effective than if she were living in a facility.
> 
> It seems that every few weeks, my  husband has to do battle with the LTC provider over her coverage.   They  raise premiums, require all sorts of paperwork from doctors, try to  deny coverage... it's a never-ending battle.   MIL has been evaluated and re-evaluated by their specialist; her own doctor's order was insufficient.  (She has memory problems but no "dementia" diagnosis yet, gets confused with medications, etc.)    As with most types of  insurance, the LTC coverage providers put a lot of effort into trying to figure out how NOT to pay for her care.
> 
> ...



And this is why I've continued to save and invest diligently.  I want to be able to pay out of pocket for LTC if it becomes necessary. My uncle did for over a year. I was denied LTC coverage due to a heart condition that has been subsequently cured (tried our state health benefits group plan and AARP's plan).  But after reading about the likelihood of substantial policy increases while benefits could shrink, I wasn't sure I would want a LTC policy anyway.  That's terrible to have to go through what you and your husband did to get promised benefits paid.


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## Keesha (Sep 22, 2018)

Hi Starsong
I’m not going to lie but I AM really scared for them. It’s totally heart breaking going up there and putting all this work into trying to help them and in return I get treated like I’m trying to kick them out of their home. It’s the last thing I want. They are much safer being in their own home at this point in time. 


It’s extra difficult because my parents don’t trust anyone, not even their own family. Add OCD to that along with dementia and it becomes really problematic. 


Months ago the service they had working for them threatened to leave if the mouse infestation wasn’t taken care of. According to my dad, there was no mouse infestation and he was greatly offended by the accusation but they DID have one. 
My father refused to pay for exterminators so I had to deal with it on my own which involved a LOT of work like cleaning out all cupboards etc. and my father acted like I was an intruder invading his privacy. 


Trees had to be trimmed that were hanging over the house and leaves had to be picked up because they never have been in all the years they’d been there making it an ideal place for mice to hangout. 34 hours later of incredibly intense labour the problem started to get resolved yet my parents acted like I had just insulted them in the biggest way possible. Even after a meeting with these medical service people, they were STILL suspicious. It’s frustrating when you bust your ass for your own flesh and blood and instead of a sincere thank you, you get treated like a villain. :shrug: 


Now my parents won’t even answer the phone if I call because ‘I’ have become the enemy. No I am NOT the power of attorney. A few years ago when my parents got upset with me they disowned me and called my brother and told him to visit them. They then told him that he was to be the POA as well as the sole inheritor or everything including the house. I wasn’t to get anything so I am doing ALL of this with full knowledge that I’ve been written out of their will and they have no shame letting me know. My brother however has told me that he will split whatever is left over. I’m not sure how I’m to be sure of this but I honestly am not doing it for the money. I’m sincerely concerned about them and it’s heart breaking. 


BUT at the same time my brother isn’t available. He doesn’t answer their calls and ignores them when they get too demanding. Now they are very unhappy with him and admit that they aren’t talking with him either. This makes dealing with them that much more difficult. At the meeting the medical staff asked my parents if I could be the person to contact if they needed help since they also couldn’t get a hold of my brother and they agreed. 
Im not really sure what this means in all of this but apparently I’m the person who is to be contacted from now on. 
I’ve been upgraded to ‘ priority contact’ person. 


Now all my dad complains about is that he USED to have a cedar privacy hedge and that we buggered it up. It wasn’t a hedge. They were cedar trees that had grown so large that they were overtaking the house and lot . With cedar trees the only greenery is at the tips of the branches so once trimmed they end up looking like ugly dead trees. This job was insanely difficult and time consuming but we were all so proud to get it done. Unfortunately we didn’t have the ability to get rid of the big mess of branches that was left from doing this job. We thought of getting a burn permit but there was too much to burn for one day. Taking it to the garbage dump would require too many trips and neither one of us has a hitch on our car so dealing with THIS became on issue. 


We had asked my father if we could use his car since it has a trailer hitch on it and he said we could but we didn’t realize that he meant he’d drive too. My dad is so crippled that I am shocked that he still has his licence. Plus he had a mini stroke this year and we are all quite sure that he lost his licence but isn’t admitting it. 


The wood chipper that we need is a 1/2 an hour drive to pick up which would mean getting my dad up at 7:00 a.m. and having him drive to get this cause he doesn’t trust either of us to drive. Well anyone knows what drinkers are like to try and get out of bed but an 89 year old at that and he thinks WE are the ones being difficult. Anyway I had to make all these arrangements because they aren’t talking to my brother but are also upset with me so today’s the day we go up. 


My brother tried to get the wood chipper delivered but the distance is too far so he purchased his own trailer hitch and had it installed. My father would have been upset also because then it would have cost an extra $100. 


 If I hadn’t arranged all this then we would have all gone up there today all for nothing because we would not have been able to get this wood chipper and would forever have had my dad complaining about the mess we left in their yard. 

The last time I was there my mom had cut her own hair  which I had to fix up so I added a pink streak to it which my dad hated. My dad used to be a barber and apparently my mom had been begging my dad to cut her hair and he wouldn’t do it. The moment I started trying to help my mom he got upset with me. 


What’s upsetting me the most is I think my dad is taking some type of revenge out on my mom for not treating him well during their marriage . She is now solely dependent on him and he seems to be taking delight in the fact that he’s got complete control over her. It’s a bit unsettling. 


Last night I made chicken cordon bleu with wild rice and beans along with gluten free devils food cake. Hopefully they will like it and if not , oh well. 


I’m really not looking forward to this today but it has to be done. 


And YES all kinds of strange and unusual things start to happen when old people start losing their cognitive function. Trying to get my father to put pants on when company is there is almost impossible. 
That’s another thing he gets upset about. 
He should after all be able to wear what he wants in his own house. 


Awkward ? Uncomfortable? 
Oh mannnnn! :shrug: 


Insane is fitting at this point. Lol


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## Keesha (Sep 22, 2018)

jujube said:


> Keesha, you will be in my thoughts during this time.  You're entering a _damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't _situation.  My only advice would be to keep them in their home as long as you can.  Trying to get good home care, though, is not easy.
> 
> You're right that an AL will kick them out as soon as they start causing trouble.  Unfortunately, SNF's also have their own sneaky ways to get rid of "problem" patients.  The Spousal Equivalent's mom developed dementia on the third day she was in the SNF and they were making strong noises that we'd have to move her to another facility that had a "memory unit".  She died only days later.




Thanks Jujube! 
Yep! Damned if I do.
Damned if I don’t. 
The DON’T is starting to win.:crying:


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## Lara (Sep 22, 2018)

Keesha, none of these serious issues are your fault, as your father wants you to believe. An abundance of LOVE is your only "crime". 

Your father has a distorted sense of reality due to alcohol, meds, OCD, and forgetfulness. Eventually, he will see all this very clearly when he's on the other side, when his physical body leaves his soul. 

When you're in the thick of things, it's hard to remember that he is physically and mentally ill right now. It's not who he is. Maybe it might be a good idea to read your post #28 to them so they can understand that your heart is squarely where your efforts are to help them...that you love them. Communication sometimes helps.


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## Lara (Sep 22, 2018)

Keesha said:


> ...It’s extra difficult because my parents don’t trust anyone, not even their own family. Add OCD to that along with dementia and it becomes really problematic.
> 
> [Property maintenance, housecleaning, cooking, and more]...I am doing ALL of this with full knowledge that I’ve been written out of their will and they have no shame letting me know. My brother however has told me that he will split whatever is left over. I’m not sure how I’m to be sure of this but I honestly am not doing it for the money. I’m sincerely concerned about them and it’s heart breaking.
> 
> ...


The family dynamics have changed since your brother was last made the sole beneficiary of the Will and given the Power of Attorney. 

This now needs to be updated ASAP since your parents are now more upset with your brother than you, not speaking to him, and *your brother has rejected them and can't be contacted*. You're now the official "Priority Contact person"...the only family member that can be contacted during their entire twilight years. This isn't fair to you and you can't count on your brother's verbal contract to share.

If your parents are incapable, then you and your brother should go together to the lawyer's office and have him amend the Will to include you both as equal beneficiaries and give YOU the Power of Attorney.

At the very least, handwrite an amendment as to equal beneficiary status yourself and ask your brother to sign it and date it. ASAP. The Power of Attorney needs to be done by the lawyer or maybe you can get an official online form that may work.


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## StarSong (Sep 22, 2018)

Hi Keesha,

I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this.  My personal observation of people with age related dementia is that they become a more concentrated version of who they've always bee, having lost the ability and desire to mask traits that they've found to be socially unacceptable.  People who by nature are sweet, gentle and inclined to be pushovers are even more so during dementia stages, and need advocates to ensure they're treated well.  Cranky, suspicious people become more difficult to please and often verge on paranoia.  Ragers get even angrier.    

For instance, my mother was always a very kind woman and an extremely gracious hostess.  She also worried a lot about burglars. A lot.  In her final few years she swore that a group of men were breaking into her (large) home most evenings and staying in one of her extra bedrooms.  She called them "the visitors."  No amount of proof would dissuade her because her dementia was constructing these confabulations.  

One day I was visiting and saw a note on her guest bathroom door saying "Please use the bathroom down the hall."  She told me the toilet had started running so she shut off the water supply.  She had many friends who visited her frequently so I asked who'd been there since I'd last seen her a few days before.  She said, "Oh nobody's been here, Honey.  That sign is for "the visitors."'  Okaaaayyy.... so I go to the bathroom down the hall.  It was immaculate with fresh towels and a vase of flowers.  So I asked why she had gone to all that trouble for burglars.  She was shocked at my question and replied, "Well, I wouldn't want them to think I'm a poor housekeeper."  

My point, and I do have one, is that when people have dementia it can be impossible to reason with them.  Facts are irrelevant because they filter everything through the cockeyed prism of their skewed thought process.  

It might be time to have your parents medically evaluated to see if they're capable of making their own decisions and managing their own affairs.  

I agree with Lara that when parents are in this condition it's best to not take things personally.  On the other hand, it seems you had very few past warm, fuzzy moments with these people which makes it harder to reassure yourself that underneath it all they truly do love and appreciate you.  I'd suggest that you frame this from the perspective that you're doing your best for them, not because of who they are but because of who YOU are.  

You have a tough road to slog, Keesha.  I wish you the best as you travel it.


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## RadishRose (Sep 22, 2018)

Keesha, Lara and StarSong have given such wise advice. I hope you can get things settled sooner than later! :love_heart:


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## Lara (Sep 22, 2018)

Keesha said:
			
		

> The last time I was there my mom had cut her own hair which I had to fix up so I added a pink streak to it which my dad hated. My dad used to be a barber and apparently my mom had been begging my dad to cut her hair and he wouldn’t do it. The moment I started trying to help my mom he got upset with me.
> 
> What’s upsetting me the most is I think my dad is taking some type of revenge out on my mom for not treating him well during their marriage . She is now solely dependent on him and he seems to be taking delight in the fact that he’s got complete control over her. It’s a bit unsettling.


I'm really concerned about your mother. In North Carolina we have a Mobile Family Crisis Intervention program for free. They come to your house, listen to everyone's side and offer their advice and contacts of where to get further help if needed. I would include both parents, your brother, and yourself. Make a list of questions and concerns before they arrive. 

If you don't have that, call social services and ask where to get some help. Your father sounds overly controlling and is coming unhinged of late.

Just a gentle tip regarding the "pink streak" you added to your mother's hair (you're so much fun Keesha LOL)...
The more we age, the more we get set in our ways and do not welcome change at all. You might want to minimize radical changes. I'm with you though...I never would have thought your father would care about your mother's hair. And what seems radical to your father is not so radical in our eyes.


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## Keesha (Sep 22, 2018)

The family dynamics certainly HAVE changed since my brother was made sole beneficiary. My brother hasnt rejected them. It’s that he’s in marathon training and that takes full priority but also because my brother still works full time. 


Another thing to consider is that my brother hates confrontation and will do anything to avoid it which is what he was doing. 


My parents ,however , are famous for driving a wedge between family members and I won’t allow them to do it. I’m not  playing this game any longer. I’m just not biting. I’m not playing the ‘pick me I’m best ‘ game where my brother and I compete to see who can best win over their affection. No way. No chance. I FINALLY have a good relationship with my brother and I won’t allow them to break that apart. We come as a team and it’s either both of us or none of us. 


No I can’t count on my brothers verbal agreement but that’s what trust is all about and he gave me his word and I am going to trust him. 


My brother and I treat each other extremely well and our relationship has only grown stronger since we’ve been working on this together. I don’t want to ruin this for anything. In fact if anything, looking after my parents is teaching me the true meaning of ‘team work’ and it’s not always 50/50. It’s working with the strengths we each have and bringing them together and we ARE getting better at this. 


For now I’m keeping notes of everything I’ve been doing. 


Today was the most unusual day imaginable and I can’t wait to tell you about it but I’m going to have to sleep first because I’m exhausted. It’s been a long day that didn’t go as planned. 


The unexpected happened. 


Yep! It’s challenging is an understatement!!!


Thank you ladies so very much. 
These were really helpful posts with information to really consider. 
After sleeping I’ll post some more.


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## Lara (Sep 23, 2018)

Your relationship with your brother is loving and special indeed. Trust is a beautiful thing. But...

This is a delicate subject for which I would never tell you what to do. But, personally, this is what I would do and why. I worked in a hospital for 8 years prior to retirement as a guest services specialist. I spoke with many families on a daily basis who were all facing the end of life's journey of a shared loved one. Some loved ones were on life support but when the decision to disconnect came, some patients would continue to live for a couple of weeks. 

All too often, last minute decisions regarding the care of that loved one tore families apart who were once very close, like who was visiting and who wasn't, past family issues, etc. Anger and hatred grew in literally a heartbeat.

You have a long way to go before facing those last moments with your parents but my point is that trust has nothing to do with where you'll be at in your relationship with your brother. Opinions clash at times. Feelings change. Medications change people, bitterness enters into some who are aged (you've heard of old curmudgeons). 

Another analogy is marriage that a couple enters into believing their love will last forever. Then one day, one partner wants a divorce, completely blindsiding the other. They simply fall out of love for various reasons.

It's a personal choice, but if it were my brother, I would not wait until we're NOT getting along to amend the Will (which is unfair now since family dynamics have changed). Doing it while we WERE getting along and not in the middle of a crisis only makes sense...to me anyway. Life is notorious for throwing a curveball when we least expect it. That's what we can't trust.


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## Keesha (Sep 23, 2018)

You have given me a lot to think about and I certainly appreciate your responses but I’m going to need a bit of time, mainly to think about all this. I’ve actually got a LOT to say so I’ll post later on. 

Thank you all so much 
You people truly ARE the BEST and I mean that sincerely. :thankyou:


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## Keesha (Sep 23, 2018)

So much happened on Saturday that I can’t believe it was just one day. 


My brother decided he didn’t want to take a chance with my dad wanting to drive to pick up the wood chipper so he got a trailer hitch installed on his vehicle instead. . It cost him $500.


The wood chipper worked great once they figured out how to use it and while my brother and my husband chipped the wood, I mowed the lawn. While I was mowing the lawn I noticed that our neighbour was out splitting wood with a wood splitter and what he was doing was creating a temporary screen with the wood piles so he has some privacy. 


Within an hour the wood chipper  clutch gave out and started seizing up so they had to take it back. During this time I talked with the neighbour and apologized for taking his privacy away and he was really cool about it. He said that the trees were ready to come down anyway and that he planned on either building a cedar fence or putting up a new hedge. 


While there I noticed that he’d cut all the trees down in his backyard and he said he’s building a garage and asked if I’d like to see the plans. He showed me plans for a 3 car garage with a loft on top. Apparently it’s for storage ( nudge, nudge )There are ways to get away with building a permanent structure and he found and used all the loopholes. 


He asked about my parents and told me that if my parents ever want anything to give him a call and he can pick it up for them. I then asked who had been mowing their lawn all this time and he said it was him. 


When I came back in the house I told my dad this news because I thought my dad would really appreciate the fact that he’s adding privacy back to both properties and that he was willing to get supplies for them, which I thought was really nice. 
My father then lectured me about the fact that he’s not a nice man and is trying to steal their house from them. 


He then said that they both  wanted the house to be left to my brother and I . 
:what1: I had to do a double take but he said that he’ hopes we don’t ever sell it to him because he’s such a nasty man. Meanwhile this man has been mowing their lawn every week in the spring, summer and 1/2 of fall for them without an acknowledgement or a thank you for DECADES. I’d say that’s a fairly decent person. 


The good news is that I seem to have been included back into the inheritance once again and that was made perfectly clear. 


This gave me a perfect opportunity to explain that I was not  there to try and put them in a home and steal their house away. I said I wanted them to stay as long as they can but to at least consider moving to a nice upscale retirement home. If they can’t afford it they could sell the house. I let them know that they don’t have to leave the house to us and that we’d look after them even if there was nothing for us. They genuinely seemed touched and I think I actually got through to them. 


Note: I swear that I saw the clouds part and heard angels sing :yes:


Another thing the neighbour did that I was truly grateful for was that he showed me the newly placed property survey stakes and my parents property goes back a lot further than I thought. The property goes right up the back hill. 


Anyway something very unusual happened that day while my brother & husband were taking the wood chipper back. One of the service workers showed up at the house but it was the women that my parents had ratted out for stealing from them. My mom apparently reported her to the company and she was promised that this women would never show up again, yet here she was wandering through their  house. 


When she first arrived she looked as shocked to see me there as I was to see her. I thought it very unusual and thought perhaps that she was there to talk with my parents and straighten some stuff out so I went back outside to finish mowing the lawn. When I came back in, it seems I caught her off guard and she grabbed the two cans of beans I had brought up to have with the chicken dinner and started trying to put them in the cupboard. I told her that we were having them for lunch so she quickly put them back. 


When I came back in later on she was sitting at my parents dining room table going through all their books and records. 
When she left I saw her take some of the notes but don’t know which ones. 


After I fed everyone dinner I asked my mom why they were still having the women over that they didn’t like and she said they weren’t. When I said that she was there  today and just let herself in, my mom seemed genuinely shocked. Neither my mom or my dad knew this women was coming into their house. 


One thing I never told my parents was that this women stole a good portion of my medical marijuana while I stayed at their house overnight when taking care of the mice infestation. There was about 9 or 10 grams missing and I knew my parents didn’t take it and nobody else was in their house during that entire time. It bothered me , not because I was short the stuff but that someone caring for my parents would steal anything . Since it was MINE I didn’t want to make a big deal about it so never mentioned it. THIS, however , is different. 


Tomorrow morning I am going to call this service up and ask them who was supposed to be over on the weekend and see what they say. 


Do any of you have any recommendations on how to deal with this because it’s very upsetting? My father fell  asleep  so isn’t aware of all this and I decided not to tell him. I’d like to wait to see what they have to say but I did actually consider calling the police. 


I think my parents are getting scammed and ripped off. 


Any thoughts?
Time for cameras?


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## StarSong (Sep 23, 2018)

Hi Keesha, 

I have all my FIL's banking and financial information, including passwords that permit me to access his accounts.  I verify his balances (and my own) at least once a week.  (I thought I was being over-the-top about security until a GF of mine told me she checks all of her accounts _every morning_!)  

This is the only way I know of to make sure your folks aren't being financially scammed.  My FIL was ripped off for over $10K before we caught on, which is why I'm now so vigilant about monitoring his accounts (with his permission and blessing, of course).  

You might want to add a security camera to their front door and get their locks changed.  

I hope things continue to go smoothly with your parents.


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## Lara (Sep 24, 2018)

I must not be half as nice a person as you are Keesha. Firstly, I see red flags with the neighbor who is obsessed with your property line. The fact that he's been mowing your parents lawn for decades sounds super nice but could be a serious issue here in the US because of homesteading laws (something about, if you take care of land for a certain period of time, without being asked or paid to do it, it's yours). Hopefully, you don't have that in Canada.

Secondly I would have called the service company immediately and asked about that service woman you found in your parents house who had already been fired for stealing from your parents previously (apparently you didn't know that until after she left but that's why I would have reported to the service company that she was suspicious at least). I wouldn't have left her alone to go mow the lawn. 

Most importantly, I would have called the police when she was rifling through your parents books and papers and when she walked out the door with some of the paperwork. I would have stopped her and taken the papers from her. She also stole from you. No telling how much she has stolen from your parents over the years. I would tell the police you want an investigation.

PS. Now that your father has verbally said he wants to leave the house to both you and your brother, it's time for him to amend the Will and have him sign it. His memory is failing so I wouldn't delay.


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## Keesha (Sep 24, 2018)

This stuff isn’t easy. 
I called the service people and inquired about who was there and why and spoke my concerns with the supervisor. She knew who I was referring to and stated that she was unaware that my parents had made a formal thief complaint but took notes about it. I asked why she didn’t knock and make her presence known when arriving and leaving ; that I’m almost 60 and still do so. 


I  asked what her responsibilities were because the only thing I saw was her snooping around my parents property and the supervisor said that it’s because my dad refuses to shower. Neither one of my parents saw this women so that was an excuse for sure. It was extremely clear that the service women didn’t know I was going to be there going in & out of the house and the reason I didn’t react more assertively is because I didn’t want to be stepping on anyone’s toes. I honestly thought this women was doing their paperwork as part of her job but it’s clearly not plus I’m walking on eggshells there anyway merely because of how my parents are. They are VERY difficult people to get along with and are fussy and demanding. 




The supervisor and I came to an agreement that we needed to meet with my parents so I’m going up their this Thursday. I’m also taking up information about installing cameras in their house, getting the new door handles and locks which have already been purchased. 
My father was exceptionally thankful for my call which came across loud and clear. 
Yayy. :clap: 


The neighbour isn’t actually mowing their lawn per say. There is a large ‘right of way’ in front of their house. It’s all private property owned by the community so everyone does their share of mowing it except my parents. It’s property in front of their property line and it’s done with a tractor mower so doesn’t take that long. I do my neighbours front of way every time I do mine. I’ve got more time. He clears the front of our driveway every time it snows so it works out great. Nobody feels like they owe anyone. It’s just a neighbourly thing to do.


I’d say he was showing me the property lines perhaps to let me know that the cedars in the front of my parents house are now far beyond their property line and he’s right. They are going to need to be trimmed down also. These trees are huge and it’s a lot of work but needs to be done. My dads not going to be happy about this either . 



He might very well want to purchase this house once my parents go but they aren’t gone yet and if and when we do sell it then he can talk to the realtors like everyone else. 


What you are referring to was called ‘squatters rights’ but the law doesn’t exist any more here in Canada. It gone abolished with a while back because people would break into a house, start fixing it up and then claim it as their own. You can’t do stuff like that any more. Luckily. 


While I’m there this time I’m going to bring up a conversation about the POA and what they actually want because I need to know if I am caring for them. I think that’s fair enough and I think I’m in a position right now where I could safely bring this up. 


Once again, thank you so very much for all your help. It truly HAS been a big help for me as I’m clueless about this stuff so it’s nice to learn from others here who have more knowledge and experience with it. 


Here’s some pics of the cedar trees and the pile of cedars. I forget to take a pic of the wood chipper but I will next time we rent it. I had to crop the pics so you can’t really tell how big these trees are but they’re huge.


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## RadishRose (Sep 24, 2018)

Oh my goodness! That woman or aid has NO BUSINESS going though your parents papers! No business coming in unannounced. She sneaked in and you caught her in the act! I would also call the police.

Then get your name on the will as fast as you can. 

Then all smooth sailing ahead!   :love_heart:


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## Lara (Sep 24, 2018)

Keesha said:


> This stuff isn’t easy.
> I called the service people and inquired about who was there and why and spoke my concerns with the supervisor. She knew who I was referring to and stated that she was unaware that my parents had made a formal thief complaint but took notes about it. I asked why she didn’t knock and make her presence known when arriving and leaving ; that I’m almost 60 and still do so.
> 
> I  asked what her responsibilities were because the only thing I saw was her snooping around my parents property and the supervisor said that it’s because my dad refuses to shower. Neither one of my parents saw this women so that was an excuse for sure. It was extremely clear that the service women didn’t know I was going to be there going in & out of the house...
> ...


Good for you! Making that call and setting up an appointment to talk face to face took time, effort, and courage! And what good news it is that your Father is finally happy about your efforts.

I wouldn't rule out that this service-supervisor knows much more than she's telling. She may even be related to the thief who works for her...or best friends. 

The supervisor is already making it clear that there is "No formal thief complaint". If that gives her leverage then I would just go now and file a formal complaint about the woman stealing from your parents AND stealing a lot of YOUR business assets (marijuana business). Or at least mention it to the police officer at the meeting (if you've asked one to attend).

I would ask a 3rd party to be present at Thursday's meeting or it will end up a he said she said based on only the two of you (your family vs the supervisor's business). I would ask a local police officer to be present, or a representative from hospice, social services, AARP, or medicare, a well respected citizen in the community like a pastor of a church etc.

You might want to ask our own SF member "911" what he thinks of all this.


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## StarSong (Sep 24, 2018)

Just remember that you and your parents are in the driver's seat here. If your family is uncomfortable with that woman - for whatever reason - and don't want her back,   you can tell the supervisor that she will be considered a trespasser if she steps on the property again.  Simple as that.  Stick to your guns and remember who has what rights.  

You might also advise the supervisor that security cameras are being installed at your parents' house.  That might avert any shenanigans before they happen.  

My last piece of advice comes from the "sadder but wiser" category.  Right now your parents seem to be very loving, accepting, supportive, and even grateful for all you are doing - which is probably genuine. However, that can change in less time than it takes me to type the words.  Be careful to not trust a few weeks of warm fuzzies over a lifetime of dysfunctional experience. Enjoy the warmth of their love while the sun is shining, but as most survivors of difficult parents know, the moment you become vulnerable and toss away your umbrella the monsoons will begin anew.  

I know this all too well, having had one stellar parent and one whose love and lack thereof were so conditional and unpredictable that it was impossible to feel secure for very long.  This how I know these things.  Like I said, sadder but wiser.


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## Catlady (Sep 24, 2018)

StarSong said:


> My last piece of advice comes from the "sadder but wiser" category.  Right now your parents seem to be very loving, accepting, supportive, and even grateful for all you are doing - which is probably genuine. However, that can change in less time than it takes me to type the words.  Be careful to not trust a few weeks of warm fuzzies over lifetime of dysfunctional experience.  I know this all too well.  Enjoy the warmth of their love while the sun is shining, but as most survivors of difficult parents know, the moment you become vulnerable and toss away your umbrella the monsoons will begin anew.



Lara  =  Now that your father has verbally said he wants to leave the house to  both you and your brother, it's time for him to amend the Will and have  him sign it. His memory is failing so I wouldn't delay. 				

Keesha, I think that you should listen to StarSong and Lara.  Better safe than sorry.  Get those promises from your parents and brother in writing, get that proof that you will inherit equally, don't depend on ''verbal promises''.


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## Keesha (Sep 29, 2018)

The meeting with my parents and  their healthcare supervisor went well. 


Apparently my mom had called the general phone number for this service when she made the complaint about the worker stealing from her and her message wasn’t received. The supervisor knew nothing about the incident but she agreed that all people working for my parents should let their presence be known as soon as they enter the house and when they leave. An email was sent out to all the workers to let them know this. I also wrote the name and number of their supervisor on their fridge door in big bold print and left it on their fridge. 


My mom didn’t know who this person was and with her dementia it’s difficult to know   whether something is fact or fiction. My parents are overly suspicious of people and are often accusing people of things they haven’t done so distinguishing the difference can be difficult. 


I did not bring up the medical marijuana incident because I don’t want to get involved. Yes I’m legal and if there was a thief then I should have reported it to the police but I didn’t. It was a tough decision but I didn’t want to upset my parents more than needed so sucked it up even though it showed deceptive behaviour. If my parents already have a problem trusting people I figured this incidence would make their problem  much worse. It may not have been the right decision but it’s one that I made. 


One thing we all agreed with is that my parents cannot leave their doors permanently unlocked so these workers can come into the house whenever they want so we got a key box that will be used. All workers will enter a number to get the key. 


I’ve spoken to my parents about getting cameras installed in their home which they seemed interested in and will go to Costco and pick some up for them. We will set these up as well as change the door locks and add the key box next weekend when we go up for thanksgiving. 


I’ve also found someone local who can do their snow removal in the winter and let them know that expecting the neighbours to do it free all the time isn’t recommended nor is considerate. They do need to pay someone to do this each time it snows so it IS considered a real ‘job’ and not just a favour. 


I’ve also discovered that we don’t have to do anything with the front or side cedars as they aren’t on my parents property but are on the right of way which is not considered theirs. This is a good thing cause that’s a lot of work.


I’m going to call their pharmacist and ask that their prescription drugs be put into blister packs instead of viles because my dad isn’t taking his medication properly. 
He has heart pills that he’s only taken 50% of the time and seems to think he only has one prescription when he actually has four. 


‘Looking after these two is challenging.’ This is an understatement if there ever was one but I have to admit that at times their behaviour is hilarious. When I first got there my mom whispered that my dad is losing it. He’s getting early dementia my mom says with a very serious look on her face. 


When I went to take my dad in the car with me the first thing he says to me once we are driving and away from the house is that my mom is getting dementia. It’s also said with a straight serious face and I had to do everything in my power not to crack up and howl with laughter. It was just sooo funny. They are both very much like children now with the roles being reversed. 


Knowing this I’ve now decided to treat them like they were MY children and it’s actually working out VERY well. I’ve never had children and it gives me an opportunity to prove to myself that I DO INDEED have EXCELLENT mothering skills and can treat them with love and respect. 
It leaves me feeling good about my own personal integrity which is tactfully in place as it should be. 


One area I need to ask for help with is personal hygiene. My mom is showering and keeping herself clean but my dad isn’t. In fact he hadn’t showered in weeks and is starting to get quite funky. It’s been politely suggested that he showers and he just refuses. The odd thing is that I’ve never ever in my life seen my father unkept. He has always been clean shaven and had clean healthy hair, as well as clean clothes. He’s now wearing the same pair of shorts over & over . His hair is now past his shoulders and it’s really thick like mine. I asked him if I could cut it and he said no. I asked if I could take him to the barbers and he said no. He doesn’t seem to care what he looks like any more nor care that he’s becoming offensive to others. 


Does anyone have any suggestions? It’s a sensitive subject I know. 


I’ve made arrangements to have Thanksgiving dinner up their next weekend. I’ll be preparing all the food and pray that my dad has showered by then. 
My brother and sister in law are coming also.


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## Keesha (Sep 29, 2018)

I haven’t brought up about the will yet. I feel guilty asking about it. 
The last thing I want is my parents to think I’m doing all of this to get their money. Being suspicious like they are are ,they probably would and their minds really are slipping.


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## Lara (Sep 29, 2018)

Keesha said:


> One area I need to ask for help with is personal hygiene. My mom is showering and keeping herself clean but my dad isn’t. In fact he hadn’t showered in weeks and is starting to get quite funky. It’s been politely suggested that he showers and he just refuses. The odd thing is that I’ve never ever in my life seen my father unkept. He has always been clean shaven and had clean healthy hair, as well as clean clothes. He’s now wearing the same pair of shorts over & over . His hair is now past his shoulders and it’s really thick like mine. I asked him if I could cut it and he said no. I asked if I could take him to the barbers and he said no. He doesn’t seem to care what he looks like any more nor care that he’s becoming offensive to others. Does anyone have any suggestions? It’s a sensitive subject I know.


First of all, you're doing great! Your parents are so blessed to have you. Just reading about all you do for them is exhausting 

You asked for suggestions for your Dad's hygiene care. Aging sometimes causes depression which in turn causes lack of motivation for attending to personal hygiene. A vitamin B-12 might be helpful and eating dark greens and veggies everyday...but you already know all about nutrition. 

Then I would be carefully frank with your Dad about his hygiene . Try talking in 3rd person for now so as not to sound like you're blaming him...yet. 

I would tell him that sometimes as we age, older people begin to lack a regular shower routine which is a sign that it is time they have a professional caregiver come twice a week to help them shower or bathe or check into an assisted care home. Notice I'm saying this about others and not him personally. I didn't use the word "you".

Then say, setting up a routine now, like a bath every Monday and Thursday, or every Tuesday and Friday (or at least once a week), helps seniors achieve that goal of independence for as long as possible. This includes a shave, say, twice a week and a haircut once a month (or more often depending on how fast his hair grows). 

He can wear his hair in a clean pony tail but he'll sleep better if it's shorter and on a clean pillowcase. If he refuses then tell him that's no longer an option. 

If he still refuses tell him the alternative is assisted living. His long thick hair is too hard for others to take care of so they will cut it with no arguments. There comes a time when we have to let go of some of our pride when we have too much pride, and humble ourselves. We need to let others help us.

I used to wash my mother's short hair in her deep kitchen sink using the spray nozzle. She was very independent right up to the end as far as showering but couldn't lift her arm without a lot of pain to do her hair. I assisted her a little in the shower so she wouldn't lose her balance and fall. My mother and father were so pleasant and easy right till the end. I lucked out.


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## RadishRose (Sep 29, 2018)

Keesha, my parents never became elderly, so I have no experience to offer you. 

However, in your father's case of not showering, I have a few questions:

Do you think he's afraid to fall in the shower? 
Are there grab bars ? 
Is it difficult for him to step up and over the side of the tub getting in and out? 
Is the hot water adequate?
Does he shiver until he gets himself towel-dried?

A big terry cloth robe to put on as soon as he comes out will keep him warm while he towels legs, & etc.
Maybe one of those shower seats placed in the tub will help.

Tell the home health aid to stay near him and comb his hair back into a pony tail immediately.

When I worked in insurance claims, I heard about a water damage claim someone filed. Gramps lived with the family and was not ill or weak at all. The fam went on a brief vacation. Gramps had a heart attack while in the shower and died, his body blocking the drain and water overflowed, flooded the bathroom and caused a lot of damage.

Edit to say- if he drinks a lot maybe he's afraid to get in the shower tipsy, then forgets when sober?


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## Keesha (Sep 30, 2018)

Lara said:


> First of all, you're doing great! Your parents are so blessed to have you. Just reading about all you do for them is exhausting
> 
> You asked for suggestions for your Dad's hygiene care. Aging sometimes causes depression which in turn causes lack of motivation for attending to personal hygiene. A vitamin B-12 might be helpful and eating dark greens and veggies everyday...but you already know all about nutrition.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the support ladies. 


Lara. Depression is setting in. My father no longer has a daily schedule and I think he is depressed. He basically gets up, makes coffee for my mom and himself then goes into the tv room and watches tv until he falls asleep. He sleeps for a long time and once he gets up he makes something to eat for them both. My mother will wait all day for him to make her something to eat but after that meal is made the drinking starts.


When I took my father for a drive I could smell the booze off his breath from drinking the night before and I know from when I drank ,that alcohol is a depressant that interferes with sleep. Also because I have a depressive disorder I know that sleeping during the day, watching television for hours during the day and drinking excessively all contribute to depression. 


What my dad doesn’t realize is that the more stubborn he becomes the quicker he is going to end up in assisted living and it’s totally heart breaking. I can’t seem to get through to them. 


It’s inevitable that they are in the stages of dying. I don’t want them to go to assisted living but I also don’t want them to die at home all alone. Death IS part of life but it sure is difficult. 


You did luck out Lara but I’m sure it was still difficult. 


My heart goes to all those who have had to go through this.


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## Keesha (Sep 30, 2018)

RadishRose said:


> Keesha, my parents never became elderly, so I have no experience to offer you.
> 
> However, in your father's case of not showering, I have a few questions:
> 
> ...




You bring up some good points. He may very well be afraid of falling in the shower. 
I do believe that the basement shower has a grab bar in it but this weekend I will look and make sure. That’s a good question .


It is might be difficult for him to step in and out of the shower since he’s so crippled now.  


The hot water is definitely adequate and he had a big terry cloth robe to put on after the shower AND has medically trained staff there everyday to help him. 


I don’t think their shower downstairs is big enough for a shower seat but you raise a good point. If he needs both hands to wash his hair yet needs one hand to hold himself up, I am starting to understand perhaps why he’s not showering. 


My mother has been talking about turning their whirlpool bath tub upstairs into a walk in shower with bars and a seat. This is a very good idea RaddishRose. 


From the smell of his breath he might still be tipsy from drinking when he wakes up.


Do you know that if it weren’t for some of you here at this site I’m not sure if I could do this. You really do help more than you will ever know and I thank you kindly.


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## HelenC66 (Oct 14, 2018)

My mom suffered a stroke. She has been recovering for a very long time, but can't do it completely. Exercise and daily development of the left leg and arm have become a way of life. It's true that people say that older people are like children. Every time the nurse or I had to convince her that it was necessary and she must endure the pain she felt. After a partial recovery, I had to take her to the care home. I was convinced that they would take care of her and the restoration would go even faster.When I came to see her according to the plan, I was shocked to see her crying. Her left arm hung like a whip. I can't believe it. In general, I had to pick her up from there. Long searches of the nurse for mom weren't crowned with success. One day I came across Devoted Home Care service https://www.devotedhc.com/. Now my mother gets all the necessary professional physical therapy. She became much more cheerful. Also, I noticed the progress in her movements. I'm so glad about that. Therefore, I would never advise anyone to send parents to care homes. These are terrible places.


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