# The Dirty Secret About Women's Retirement



## OneEyedDiva (Apr 18, 2021)

This article mirrors some of the points in an e-book I was able to download for free several years ago. The book is called What Women Need To Know About Retirement and was a joint project by the Women's Institute For A Secure Retirement (represented in the video within the article) and the Heinz Family Philanthropies. For various reasons many women do not have enough income during retirement. Some of those reasons are: Women earn less than men during their careers, they may have taken time off to have and care for children, later it's more likely that women will be caregivers for their aging parents and we have longer life spans.  Also some women leave handling financial matters in the hands of their husbands and are clueless when it comes time to take over (either when he dies or becomes disabled). This article ends just before the ATM by Cashay banner.
https://money-yahoo-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/money.yahoo.com/amphtml/dirty-secret-when-it-comes-to-retirement-and-women-183241959.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=16187673552952&amp_ct=1618767178261&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fmoney.yahoo.com%2Fdirty-secret-when-it-comes-to-retirement-and-women-183241959.html
Ladies, are you or were you involved in financial matters during your marriage?


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## jujube (Apr 18, 2021)

I was very much involved with the finances during my marriage.  We didn't have "his money" and "her money"; it was "our money" and we made joint decisions on the big stuff.  I certainly didn't ask if I could buy some new clothes and he didn't ask me if it was OK to buy some new fishing equipment, but a house, a car, major furniture/appliances, big vacations? There was a conference.  

I sent off the checks for the bills, just because it was more convenient for one person to keep track of them, but he knew where everything was so that he could have taken over easily if needed. 

We had no secrets.


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## Myquest55 (Apr 18, 2021)

Thank you for sharing that, Diva!  I have several friends who are that clueless.  When we married, my husband was a submarine sailor for the USN and I had the business degree.  Since he was away a lot, with Navy duties and even after leaving the military, for work, I handled the finances.  Like jujube, we had "our" money and discussed large purchases but I handled the investments.  I went to those free talks about "investing" and "retirement planning" and tried to learn things.  I relied on our insurance/investment Reps at two firms and split our money in half.  (There had been several highly publicized arrests for embezzling plus market downturns, along the way and I didn't want to put all our eggs in one basket.  That has turned out to be very beneficial, BTW.  

At one point, I worried that husband had no idea where our money was, even after verbally listing accounts so I created a spreadsheet for him to have a visual reference.  He was concerned that we'd never have enough to retire but when he was diagnosed with Parkinsons at 58 and finally left work at 60 (with disability insurance) we've been doing very well.  I keep a book with a statement of every account we have as well as insurance documents, car titles and other relevant paper.  There is also a box for more bulky documents like the actual insurance contracts, passports and shot records, etc.  Its been a good exercise for our sons too - they all know that if anything happens to us they need to fine "The Book" and "The Box" for everything they'll need to know.


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## Glowworm (Apr 18, 2021)

I was never involved in financial matters during any of my marriages - all of my husbands were a-holes who lived off my mum's money. Once I was single I had to learn to manage all my own finances and I still do almost all the financial stuff myself and we live well on the returns. My girlfriend has a small disability pension that we keep separate and she uses it in any way she wants.


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## old medic (Apr 19, 2021)

We made sure that DW had not only involvement, but also Primary borrower on multiple accounts, CC and secured loans.
She also has her own Pension and 401K...
Her Dad died leaving her mother with 2 kids at home... Now the house was paid and she had some funds... but no financial experience,
No credit history, and hadn't held a job since high school.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 19, 2021)

@jujube and @Myquest55 Excellent! You're welcome Myquest. @Glowworm Sad about what happened with your exes but it's great that your financial life has improved.
@old medic  One of the worst things women can do is not develop a credit history. Good for you and your wife for handling finances the way you do.
I've always been financially independent. My mother taught me early to always have my own money. And thanks to her adding me to her revolving account at a local clothing store, I was surprised to get my first major credit card from Chase (which I never even applied for) when I was about 23. Although she and my father had a joint account, she had a separate one and bought savings bonds on her own. I never had joint accounts with either of my husbands. The marriage to my first husband was rocky almost from the start so no account with him. My second husband ran a fairly successful business for decades but seemed to have no money sense when it came to personal finance. Plus he'd loan money to anyone who had their hand out. He was kind hearted but it adversely affected his own finances in the long run.

Like you Myquest, I went to an investment seminar when I was about 37. From then I was very interested in learning about investing. After I saved enough (it was $1,000 back then) to invest with that brokerage, Dean Witter Reynolds, I did it.  I subsequently found other brokerages and investment offerings I liked better (through trial and error) and left DWR. I was reading financial publications like Money and Kiplingers and even watched financial broadcasts daily. I had always micro managed my finances since in my early 20's because being a low wage earner back then, I had to know how and when to spend. I also developed the habit of saving when I was about 25 but it was in small amounts at first due to my other responsibilities. After my career change and getting an initial big raise then heftier annual raises, I began saving/investing half of my take home pay. Those saving, then investing habits coupled with sticking with a job that offered a pension, have paid off.


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## old medic (Apr 19, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> @old medic   I never had joint accounts with either of my husbands.



We have always had a joint bank account since before we were actually married. The only separate accounts.. I had one for my sideline auto shop work for tax purposes... And she was listed on the account in case something happened to me.
She has one just for paying bills... just deposit enough to cover them


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## JustBonee (Apr 19, 2021)

Handling monthly bills and financial matters  in general,   were always my job in our marriage.    
Never really thought about it,  as  my professional  job was as  an accountant  in a large company.    I enjoyed that line of work.


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## Myquest55 (Apr 19, 2021)

Diva,  you're right about that credit!  My parents always expected me to go to college.  Once graduated (in the 1970's) I struggled to find work.  My second real job was with a large firm and there was some travel involved so I applied, and received (in 1978), an American Express credit card - for which I had to pay a subscription fee plus pay it off every month.  I was always amazed when other people seemed surprised, and impressed, that I had one.  It was even the clincher when we applied for our first mortgage!  It wasn't until recently that I understood why.  UNTIL 1974, Women were not legally ALLOWED to have credit cards!  Wow!  

After a while I gave up the Amex.  but In the 2000's our credit union encouraged me to open my own accounts and apply for my own Visa credit card.  I resisted at first, it seemed redundant, but finally figured it wasn't a bad idea.  I am co-owner of my husband's and he is co-owner of mine.  BUT, that puts my name on a separate credit report - which seems to be required for everything these days!  

As for other investing experience.  I knew from school that it took money to make money so I too began with a small amount, working my way up to bigger things and saving for our sons' college and retirement.  Its all worked out pretty well and that spreadsheet, I mentioned above, has been a great tool.  When we meet with the financial guys, they practically hug me for giving them the information they need to help us!  It is something they usually do - for a fee!  

I also encouraged my sons to "find a woman who can take care of herself!  you never know if she may have to take care of you!"  Our youngest did just that - she is amazing!  The other two are still looking


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## Ruth n Jersey (Apr 19, 2021)

I am almost ashamed to be writing this but up until a few years ago my hubby took care of all the financial matters. I trusted him and he evidently did a good job. He was an accountant his whole life and I was more than happy to let him take care of things.
When my mom became ill I had to take care of her finances. 
It was very hard for me and I finally realized I need to know what is going on with our own finances. I now take care of all the bills and am aware of what is going on. and the hubby was patient with me while I was learning.
I am still very uneasy doing this and have my hubby check everything. 
I've never been good in math and for some reason I have a tendency to reverse numbers. So far I've caught my errors because I check and recheck everything. 
It's a long time consuming process that comes easy to most people but I will continue. 
I feel calmer now that I know what is going on but I  still have him check my work.
Should I outlive my hubby I will need the kids as back up. Both of them are trustworthy for which I am grateful.


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## Myquest55 (Apr 19, 2021)

Well done Ruth!  I should probably have my husband learn to do the same with my help!

A friend of mine also let her husband handle all the finances and business things - she worked and focused on the children - until, one day she realized he was ill, all the money was gone and he had no idea where it went!  She was forced to take things in hand and learn, the hard way.  Fortunately he had a few years of USArmy service and they ultimately had to rely on the Veterans Administration (Who has been VERY good to them, BTW).  He got a liver transplant and they are in subsidized housing.  Not their dream retirement but they have a roof over their heads and enough food.  Now they do all the financial decisions together.


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## StarSong (Apr 19, 2021)

I've steered the financial retirement ship including when and how to file for our Social Security benefits, and the steps we took when transitioning our small business from full throttle to semi-retirement.  My husband used to say, you tell me when it's time and we'll retire.  I gave the nod and we were off and running.  

He managed our day to day bills and expenses and I oversaw the long-term finances. 

We've always used free separate checking accounts (held jointly with both having signatory rights). No financial secrets between us, it was just easier for adults to manage their own bookkeeping. Big decisions made jointly, small decisions didn't need to be.  We're both adults.


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## debodun (Apr 19, 2021)

One of my uncles gave me good advice once, "If you don't plan on ever getting married, you'd better be smart, good-looking or rich." That's when I started saving my money.


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## Lethe200 (Apr 20, 2021)

I tease my Spouse that if I died, he would be in a world of trouble. I HATE filing, LOL. I just keep track of which "pile" the papers are in   .

He's the type that tries to balance a checking account to the penny. Waste of time. I stopped "balancing the books" 30 yrs ago. We have a very good retirement income and more than enough gets deposited the 1st of every month to cover everything.

When it comes to investments, I picked the CFP firm because I've taught Spouse enough so he knows _when _to ask questions or seek assistance from them. 

He could handle investments if he wanted to.....but he doesn't. And neither do I, especially having to determine the most tax-efficient strategies. I enjoy investing but I draw the line at taxes, ugh. The CFP firm is very experienced in this area so I feel confident that if anything happened to me, they are willing and able to support his lifestyle decisions.


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## Sassycakes (Apr 20, 2021)

Since my husband was a very hard worker, even working more than one job at a time and I was a stay-at-home mom I handled paying bills etc all the time. I still do but now that he is retired I'm trying to teach him how to do it for when I am no longer here.


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## officerripley (Apr 20, 2021)

Lethe200 said:


> I tease my Spouse that if I died, he would be in a world of trouble. I HATE filing, LOL. I just keep track of which "pile" the papers are in   .
> 
> He's the type that tries to balance a checking account to the penny. Waste of time. I stopped "balancing the books" 30 yrs ago. We have a very good retirement income and more than enough gets deposited the 1st of every month to cover everything.
> 
> ...


What is "CFP firm"?


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## fmdog44 (Apr 20, 2021)

officerripley said:


> What is "CFP firm"?


Certified Financial Planner company


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## officerripley (Apr 20, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Certified Financial Planner company


Thanks.


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## dobielvr (Apr 20, 2021)

I think we're all more capable than we give ourselves credit for sometimes.
When you're thrust in to situations, you will learn what you have to, and do them gladly...imo

It's called being responsible.

all jmo.


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## Pecos (Apr 21, 2021)

I will focus on a narrow aspect of women and their financial retirement, namely important decisions made at the time of retirement regarding Military Pensions and Federal Pensions. 

When a Military member retires, and they are faced with the decision of whether or not to participate in the military SBP (Survivor Benefit Program), way too many of them decide that it is too expensive and they buy into the idea that they can do better if they buy a cheap term insurance policy. The spouse has to sign that they agree. When I was in command, I always had the pair of them come into my office where I explained that yes, SBP is more expensive that a cheap term insurance policy, but that term policy will end after 30 years and will probably not be renewed by the insurance company. 

In recent years I have had two wives track me down and ask me why they were not getting any retirement money from the Navy after their husbands death. In both cases, they and their husbands chose to buy term insurance that expired at the 30 year point. As time progressed, the insurance companies would not renew them because by that time the husbands had developed health issues, and that jumped that initial cheap monthly premium up to over $4000 a month which they could not afford, so they dropped the insurance entirely. These life insurance companies always find out if a person has serious health issues.

I had to remind both of them that we had gone over this very issue in my office where I had explained that their husbands had better plan on dying before they turned 70. I could not help them at all and I felt very sorry for them.

SBP for military members and for Federal employees is expensive. In the Military case, it is completely paid for at the 30 year point. Military members can select to provide anywhere from 15% to 55% of their retired pay to their wives. The cost of the first 15% was dirt cheap, but for me to provide 55%, the monthly cost has averaged about $320 per month for 30 years. I have 7 payments left and my wife will actually have enough to live comfortably should something happen to me. The system is actually designed to benefit enlisted members (who are typically younger) much more that older Officers like me. It is a good deal for them, but an amazing number choose to not take it.

There is absolutely NO way that a commercial insurance company would give me a large term insurance policy with my health issues. 

My wife has a small Federal SBP that she included me on for 50% and the cost was reasonable. But her small Corporate Retirement SBP was way over priced and we did not elect it.

So my point is that if your spouse (or the spouse of one of your children) is nearing the end of a Military Or Federal career, they need to weigh this decision very carefully.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 21, 2021)

@Pecos _"or me to provide 55%, the monthly cost has averaged about $320 per month for 30 years." _That *is *expensive. Just out of curiosity, I used Hugh Chou's savings and payout calculators to see what those contributions would total to if invested with average annual returns of 7.5% (even though many investments pull double digit returns). I wonder if what the spouse receives (at 55%) is in any way comparable assuming the spouse lives, say another 20 years after the military person's death. Not asking you to reply with amounts that are particular to your situation unless you feel comfortable doing so because I know that's personal. This was Hugh Chou's result:
_Final Savings Balance: $ 413,504.01_​_Initial Investment plus Monthly Contributions: $ 115,520.00_​_Total Interest Earned: $ 297,984.01_​For a retirement account of *$ 413504* at a interest rate of *7.5 %* with an inflation rate of *3.5 %* a year
Your Initial Monthly Payout : $ 2,575.94​Over 20 Years​


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## Pecos (Apr 21, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> @Pecos _"or me to provide 55%, the monthly cost has averaged about $320 per month for 30 years." _That *is *expensive. Just out of curiosity, I used Hugh Chou's savings and payout calculators to see what those contributions would total to if invested with average annual returns of 7.5% (even though many investments pull double digit returns). I wonder if what the spouse receives (at 55%) is in any way comparable assuming the spouse lives, say another 20 years after the military person's death. Not asking you to reply with amounts that are particular to your situation unless you feel comfortable doing so because I know that's personal. This was Hugh Chou's result:
> _Final Savings Balance: $ 413,504.01_​_Initial Investment plus Monthly Contributions: $ 115,520.00_​_Total Interest Earned: $ 297,984.01_​For a retirement account of *$ 413504* at a interest rate of *7.5 %* with an inflation rate of *3.5 %* a year
> Your Initial Monthly Payout : $ 2,575.94​Over 20 Years​


Actually, her initial payout will noticeably higher than that.

When I talked to the two people who did not participate about what they would do if the husband lived beyond the age of 70, a typical response was that they would "figure it out by then." Of course they never had the discipline to actually stick to a definitive plan. 

Oh, and the monthly payments into the military SBP are tax exempt.

Still as a mathematical exercise, it is easy to see why people could chose to see it differently than I do. It is very similar to math associated with Social Security. Investments can be unpredictable and people generally have trouble sticking to an investment program. Social Security, Military and Federal survivor plans are pretty predictable and stable.

This can be a tough call and there are a lot of important variables like the health of the people involved and their relative ages.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 22, 2021)

_@Pecos "Investments can be unpredictable and people generally have trouble sticking to an investment program. Social Security, Military and Federal survivor plans are pretty predictable and stable." _
And this is why I think you made a very good decision. I admire your forward thinking about making sure Mrs. Pecos would be taken care of. I'm sure there are many women who wish they had husbands like you. You are right about people not sticking to a plan. Heck some people don't even *make* a plan. That's why so many people today will have to work until they die (if they even can).


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## Uptosnuff (Apr 27, 2021)

When I was growing up, my mother took care of all the finances and made all the financial decisions even though she was the stay-at-home mom with 6 kids.  My dad seemed perfectly content to let her make all the decisions.  

When I married, we had joint checking, not separate accounts and I took the role of bill paying, probably because I saw my mom do that.  I worked for most of my married life and contributed to a 401k in every job I had.  I always thought it was important for a woman to have money in her own name separate from her husband.  Now, I have three 401k's from different jobs and hubby has a couple more than I do.  I have my own pension that we will live on solely for the next couple of years until we hit 65.

While I don't see us ever separating and I look forward to retiring together, I still like seeing my money work for me in my 401ks.  It gives me a feeling of accomplishment.


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## Uptosnuff (Apr 28, 2021)

@Pecos   Question about the SBP.  This is different than a pension from a corporation?  Or is the SBP in addition to a military pension?  I am totally ignorant about this.  I have never heard of SBP.  Can you expound a little?


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## Pecos (Apr 28, 2021)

Uptosnuff said:


> @Pecos   Question about the SBP.  This is different than a pension from a corporation?  Or is the SBP in addition to a military pension?  I am totally ignorant about this.  I have never heard of SBP.  Can you expound a little?


The SBP ( survived benefit program) for military retirees is the means by which the retiree can ensure that their spouse continues to receive a portion of their retired pay after they pass. If they do not participate, the spouse will get nothing after the death of the military member.
Corporations often have a similar program as will.


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## Uptosnuff (Apr 28, 2021)

Pecos said:


> The SBP ( survived benefit program) for military retirees is the means by which the retiree can ensure that their spouse continues to receive a portion of their retired pay after they pass. If they do not participate, the spouse will get nothing after the death of the military member.
> Corporations often have a similar program as will.


The pension at my company operates a little differently.  At retirement, you decide how much you want your spouse to receive after your death.  50%, 60%, or whatever percent you want.  If you decide on a higher percentage for the spouse after your death, you receive a lesser amount of pension while you are alive.  We don't have to pay in anything after retiring.  We have already paid into our pensions while we were working.

So the concept of paying into the SBP after retirement was a little confusing.


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## Pecos (Apr 28, 2021)

Uptosnuff said:


> The pension at my company operates a little differently.  At retirement, you decide how much you want your spouse to receive after your death.  50%, 60%, or whatever percent you want.  If you decide on a higher percentage for the spouse after your death, you receive a lesser amount of pension while you are alive.  We don't have to pay in anything after retiring.  We have already paid into our pensions while we were working.
> 
> So the concept of paying into the SBP after retirement was a little confusing.


Ok, I see where you are coming from. I was counting the reduction to retirement pay I receive now as a payment. My pay reduction comes to an end after 30 years. But otherwise your system and mine operate the same.
I will get a $400 increase later this year when my 30 year payments come to an end.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 29, 2021)

Uptosnuff said:


> When I was growing up, my mother took care of all the finances and made all the financial decisions even though she was the stay-at-home mom with 6 kids.  My dad seemed perfectly content to let her make all the decisions.
> 
> When I married, we had joint checking, not separate accounts and I took the role of bill paying, probably because I saw my mom do that.  I worked for most of my married life and contributed to a 401k in every job I had.  I always thought it was important for a woman to have money in her own name separate from her husband.  Now, I have three 401k's from different jobs and hubby has a couple more than I do.  I have my own pension that we will live on solely for the next couple of years until we hit 65.
> 
> While I don't see us ever separating and I look forward to retiring together, I still like seeing my money work for me in my 401ks.  It gives me a feeling of accomplishment.


Deservedly so! Well done. I got a pension and 401Ks weren't offered but Deferred Compensation was. I took advantage of that for only two years before I retired but had them take the max from my pay (20%). I had private investments mostly in Roths and one small traditional IRA. Although I could live off my Divs & Caps, it's not necessary to take any distributions at all because my pension and SS more than cover my monthly expenses including extras.


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## mathjak107 (May 5, 2021)

80% of married men die married , 80% of married women die alone .

Women Better know what is going on or they can be prime candidates for poor advice .

My wife lost her first husband ...she had no idea about any of the investments her husband dropped in her lap .

So she went to the person she trusted , the guy at her bank.

He put her in all dot com and tech and when the smoke cleared half her savings was gone.


as if we didn't know it ,women are different creatures than men. they think different ,have different needs ,wants and requirements.

any good financial planner will tell you: men are more interested in growing wealth , they care about allocations ,investments , getting the biggest bang for the buck ( no pun intended),beating indexes , etc . 


women clients are different as far as what brought them to that planners office and it is nothing like the mans reason. a mans reason is usually facts, figures and greed to increase wealth , a womens reason is she has a story to tell. ( don't they always?) ha ha 

women have very different concerns and it is usually centered around the fact they have visions of being alone eventually if they are not already alone and fear being the proverbial homeless bag lady under the bridge after they out lived their money. women want security.

women live longer than men , a big point when planning but more important while 80% of all men who are married die married ,80% of all women die alone. I think that sentence requires reading a 2nd time as there is a huge difference in situations for a woman.

women usually don't like to take on much volatility,especially a widow who just lost a social security check or a woman alone .

So every woman needs to know what is going on with the finances and if they are uncomfortable with what their partner is doing speak up.

To many spouses keep their partners uninvolved and uneducated on the subject and that is bad when that partner gets a pile of investments they don’t understand or want dropped in their lap


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## OneEyedDiva (May 5, 2021)

@mathjak107 . I was waiting for your take on this. Good points.
"_To many spouses keep their partners uninvolved and uneducated on the subject and that is bad when that partner gets a pile of investments they don’t understand or want dropped in their lap"_
Or when they find out their husbands squandered all their money and/or made bad investments.


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## officerripley (May 5, 2021)

What I've been finding in the couples I know, is people, husbands and wives both, seem to be aware of the fact that they should be preparing, both financially & in other ways, for their old age or the remaining spouse's old age, but seem to be in denial about it, refusing to accept the fact that something should be done; they all (incl. my Huzz) are acting and thinking as if they're still 45. Grown kids, financial advisors, younger-than-they siblings, everybody, is trying to tell them and they are not listening (especially the men usually).


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## Pecos (May 5, 2021)

officerripley said:


> What I've been finding in the couples I know, is people, husbands and wives both, seem to be aware of the fact that they should be preparing, both financially & in other ways, for their old age or the remaining spouse's old age, but seem to be in denial about it, refusing to accept the fact that something should be done; they all (incl. my Huzz) are acting and thinking as if they're still 45. Grown kids, financial advisors, younger-than-they siblings, everybody, is trying to tell them and they are not listening (especially the men usually).


I find that I agree with you, some of the decisions that my fellow men make are shockingly short sighted, and sometimes even selfish.


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## officerripley (May 5, 2021)

Pecos said:


> I find that I agree with you, some of the decisions that my fellow men make are shockingly short sighted, and sometimes even selfish.


And it doesn't help that this society, here in the U.S. anyway, really stresses that the still-in-your-prime, money-making lifestyle is the only way "successful," "real" men are supposed to be. A study was done recently where they asked elderly men in the U.S. and parts of Europe what they were proudest of about themselves. IIRC, the German guys ( and I think some of the other northern Europeans) were proudest of how physically strong they still were; the French guys were proudest of how they could still have sex with their wives (or girlfriends); the Italian guys were proudest of how many kids and grandkids (espec. male ones) they had; the British guys were proudest of how they could still drink younger guys under the table. What were the U.S. elderly guys proudest of? How much money they'd made and if they could still drive. Money and machines rule here in the U.S, I guess.


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## Pecos (May 5, 2021)

officerripley said:


> And it doesn't help that this society, here in the U.S. anyway, really stresses that the still-in-your-prime, money-making lifestyle is the only way "successful," "real" men are supposed to be. A study was done recently where they asked elderly men in the U.S. and parts of Europe what they were proudest of about themselves. IIRC, the German guys ( and I think some of the other northern Europeans) were proudest of how physically strong they still were; the French guys were proudest of how they could still have sex with their wives (or girlfriends); the Italian guys were proudest of how many kids and grandkids (espec. male ones) they had; the British guys were proudest of how they could still drink younger guys under the table. What were the U.S. elderly guys proudest of? How much money they'd made and if they could still drive. Money and machines rule here in the U.S, I guess.


I agree and it is to our detriment. My wife watches out for me like a “Junkyard Dog” and at least part of her motivation is that she knows that I have her best interests and security in mind. And I love her.

The support that she has provided to me over the last 2 1/2 years of this cancer treatment has been constant and at times fairly demanding. I have been shocked by how many men and women abandon their spouses when something like this happened and I have concluded that paying attention to each other’s financial security plays into the equation.


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## OneEyedDiva (May 5, 2021)

officerripley said:


> What I've been finding in the couples I know, is people, husbands and wives both, seem to be aware of the fact that they should be preparing, both financially & in other ways, for their old age or the remaining spouse's old age, but seem to be in denial about it, refusing to accept the fact that something should be done; they all (incl. my Huzz) are acting and thinking as if they're still 45. Grown kids, financial advisors, younger-than-they siblings, everybody, is trying to tell them and they are not listening (especially the men usually).


Officer, I think part of it is laziness, part of it is a fear of tackling financial and estate issues. Some people are even afraid to talk about financial matters. The main thing that drew me and kept me on this forum (at first) was the financial threads and members being fairly open about discussing their finances. Of course what you said...denial is a part of it as well. There's nothing more pitiful than a broke a*s old person, so God help the ones who refuse to listen and neglect to prepare. I hope your husband's unwillingness to do what's necessary does not leave you in a bad position my friend!


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## Lethe200 (May 19, 2021)

Agree with mathjak (as usual!). My MIL could have been the poster child for an elderly woman ripe for scamming. Totally bewildered as to why anyone would or could deliberately choose to injure/scam/hurt anybody else. Smile and be friendly; that automatically made you a good person in her eyes.

Fortunately, once widowed her Asian culture made her listen to her son (my Spouse), who listens to me about financial and legal matters as I'm the one with the banking/insurance background and actually manage the money.

She was house-rich and cash-poor until she finally decided to take our advice and sell the house. (thank goodness!!) We researched and chose an independent CFP firm to handle her money. Spouse is an only child and we have no children, so we were worried if anything happened to us. She had no relatives close by any longer and few friends left. 

We were careful to pick a firm that had considerable experience in helping elderly clients, plus she hit it off like gangbusters with the founder, who absolutely adored her. Fortunately, she passed away peacefully a few years ago, but it was reassuring that we knew the CFP firm would give good advice to the successor trustee if we were no longer around to direct.


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