# Chronic Musculoskeletal Pain



## Damaged Goods (Sep 16, 2019)

How do you manage chronic musculoskeletal pain?

I'm a 1944 WWII baby.  A four-decade weightlifting hobby that was still going strong after age 65 has resulted in arthritis in both upper extremities, from wrists to shoulders.  In addition, the left upper extremity features a completely degenerated labrum, torn rotator cuff tendons, and a torn, retracted biceps tendon.  I'm fortunate inasmuch as these miseries began just recently.  Also, knock on wood, my knees, hips, back, and ankles are in great working order.

The ortho doc recommends a total shoulder replacement on the left.  I'm resisting that course of action.  For the right side bone-on-bone elbow arthritis, he tells me to just live with it, saying that elbow replacements are unreliable.  He said my right elbow looks like the elbow of a guy who pitched baseballs for 20 years.

I allow myself Aleve or Advil only when driving the mowing tractors (every 10-14 days) which is extremely painful.  They take some of the edge off the pain but I'm afraid to exceed that frequency.  NSAIDs scare me.

Capsacin hot pepper cream, Ben Gay Ultra Strength, and hand-held infra red light devices haven't helped.  What do you do?


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## rgp (Sep 16, 2019)

My situation is similar.

For my part, I have come to believe that there is nothing that deals with it [cures] it completely. Even satisfactorily. 

Not trying to be a neh-sayer , just sharing the honest truth as i see it. 

I am waiting for my state to go completely legal on Marijuana,....the only thing I haven't tried. It is getting closer in my area , and I will try it as soon as it does.

In the mean time, if I discover something ? I will share for sure........

Good luck with it.


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## PopsnTuff (Sep 16, 2019)

Aspercreme wth Lidocaine helps me greatly with arthritis in my wrists and hands, recovering ankle surgery and anywhere else it pops up...the infrared light is mostly for muscle aches but works great for me....
I cant take any nsaids due to stomach upsets....my daughter keeps suggesting medical marijuana but thats approved for only more serious issues but Pain Is a serious issue, right?


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## 911 (Sep 16, 2019)

Try CBD oil. A little expensive, but it works for me.


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## Pecos (Sep 16, 2019)

Damaged goods,

I am from the same era (1942) and suffer from some, but not all of what you described. My workout routine over the last 50 years was a mix of running, swimming, martial arts, and moderate body building. I did have rotator cuff surgery which came out fine after many months and more pain than I expected. My left hip got a total replacement and the new one works fine except for aching at night sometimes. Arthritis just seems to come with age and you may or may not have caused it with your lifting. Fortunately, my back is holding pretty well.
Your symptoms are almost an exact match for what my younger brother (72) is experiencing after 35 years of heavy body. He still lifts way more than I think he should and walks with a noticeable limp these days.
I cannot take Aleve or Advil because I have ulcerative colitis, but I do have good luck with Tylenol 3 for those night when I experience pain in either my shoulder or hip. One tablet or even 1/2 a tablet will always do the trick for me.  My Doctor prescribes them for me, and 40 tablets will last 6 months or more. They are fairly easy on the stomach. On other nights, one regular Tylenol does it, and many nights are completely pain free. If I want to aggravate things, getting cold at night will do it every time.
I am convinced that Yoga has helped me a lot in controlling joint pain. 
I never had much luck with creams, heating pads and whatnot. Acupuncture helped a little bit for my shoulder but not for my hip. 
I don't know if I will ever try CBD oil (or wacky weed itself), but I might someday.
Hang in there, your workouts might be giving you pain, but they may have also enabled you to sidestep a lot of heart and diabetic issues.


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## 911 (Sep 16, 2019)

Try Epidiolex.


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## treeguy64 (Sep 16, 2019)

I use a shiatsu massage machine.  Hung on the back of a chair, suspended with a counterweight, I can move it anywhere on my back.  I also sit in my sauna, periodically, and stretch, in place.  I have chronic chest wall pain, and have had it since I was a younger guy.  I used to go to my MD for EKG's, thinking I was carding out, but they were all due to the CCWP.  I live with it.  Warm baths help.  No more panic attacks, because I understand what the chest pains are.  I take Glucosamine Sulfate 1 gm., daily.  If I don't, I get arthritis pain in my finger joints, when climbing and operating my saws. I had bad tennis elbow, for a while, but I figured out what was causing it and, over time, it went away.  I would never get replacement surgery, but everyone has to decide for themselves, obviously.


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## Lc jones (Sep 17, 2019)

I have osteoarthritis throughout my entire body including my skull bones LOL! The only thing that has worked for me is losing weight and modification of my diet as well as daily exercise including swimming, walking, and biking. I’ve lost almost 50 pounds and feel reborn!


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## Trade (Sep 17, 2019)

I've done some kind of fitness routine pretty much all my life. Jogging, biking, weight lifting, etc. With it comes all kinds of aches and pains.

I've taken aspirin, ibuprofen, and naproxen (generic Aleve). I've found that naproxen works the best for me. But it was hard on my kidneys to the point that now I have to avoid all NSAID's. Right now my left hip and ride side both ache and I am taking extended release Tylenol for it but it only helps a little. So I'll just live with the aches and pains. Beats having to go on Dialysis because of the NSAID's. Sucks to be old. I'm 72.


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## Keesha (Sep 17, 2019)

Wow! When I read your age Damaged Goods, I wasn’t sure if my post would be relatable since I’m only 59 but after reading Pecos inspiring post, I quickly changed my mind. In fact, all the posts in this thread are really impressive.
What an informative group of members we have here.

Some forms of holistic treatment that works effectively including;

    ⁃    Epsom salts baths
    ⁃    CBD oil
    ⁃    Cannabis oil, butter, buds
    ⁃    Arnica cream / gel
    ⁃    Glucosamine Sulphate
    ⁃    Eating plenty of anti inflammatory foods
    ⁃    Exercising and stretching daily  (yoga, walking)
    ⁃    Weight loss if needed
    ⁃    Massage machine
    ⁃    Acupuncture / acupressure
    ⁃    Message therapy using therapeutic essential oils
    ⁃    Heating pads
    ⁃    Freezer pads
    ⁃    White willow bark, ginger, turmeric, capsaicin, magnesium, cats claw
    ⁃    Aromatherapy


https://newsmaven.io/indiancountryt...taminophen-or-aspirin-wr6U0siusUyUP4MsZ8dwig/
This forum has a lot of active people which is both inspiring and impressive.

Keeping active has been the key for myself personally. Walking & yoga are my staple forms of exercise. When I don’t do these I seize up and it’s painful.

Ginger is one of the best anti inflammatory substances and is proved more effective than ibuprofen for pain relief.

Magnesium can help curb pain and relax muscle spasms. Epsom salts are saturated with magnesium

Body movement releases endorphins which relieve pain which is one reason exercise works so well.

https://www.arthritis-health.com/blog/11-ways-relieve-pain-naturally


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## StarSong (Sep 17, 2019)

Wow!  Agree with @Keesha.  What a wealth of information our group has, and how wonderful that so many share information and experiences.  

I have osteoarthritis in several finger joints. They're sometimes quite painful, and the permanent swelling is a nagging annoyance. Nothing reliably eases the pain or swelling, which is worse during colder weather.

The rheumatoid arthritis doctor who diagnosed me was very sympathetic. What I took away from that visit:
1. There is virtually no medical ammo to fix finger joints that had already lost cartilage nor to prevent other joints from going south.        
2. If you live long enough you'll develop arthritis.  
3. The more stress on a particular joint, the sooner some form of arthritis will appear and the worse it will be.
4. Genetics play a role.  
5. NSAIDs, acetaminophen, aspirin, etc., should be used sparingly. I take a naproxen when the pain is truly terrible. 

I've tried CBD balm which may or may not be helpful. It's difficult to know if the balm itself eases the pain a bit, or if I'm largely benefiting from the warming friction action of rubbing. Plus there's probably a placebo effect. 

For now, I take Costco's glucosamine HCI with MSM daily (she said it wouldn't hurt and might even help) and try to avoid undue stress on my finger joints, particularly backward flexing. For flare-ups I put a brace on the offending fingers, use the CBD balm, and chew a CBD gummy. I don't know if any of these help but they do keep me busy.


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## Damaged Goods (Sep 17, 2019)

Wow, you guys have enlightened me as to alternative treatments, many of which I wasn't aware.  I will investigate and undoubtedly try some.  Thank you.

Regarding CBD, the legality is hazy, especially here in Md. which hasn't approved it and yet retailers like GNC advertise it.   Very confusing.  Also, because it isn't regulated, reports say that quality varies greatly.  Any recommendations as to a specific product, especially one that is applied topically??


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## rgp (Sep 17, 2019)

911 said:


> Try Epidiolex.




 Isn't that by prescription only ? Or is there an OTC form of it?


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## AnnieA (Sep 17, 2019)

CBD oils with <0.3% THC are legal in the US.  So far, I've had no luck with them, but I know a lot of people who get great results.


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## Trade (Sep 17, 2019)




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## 911 (Sep 17, 2019)

Check out my post #6. It's the only FDA approved CBD oil and it works for me, but everyone is different, so I am told. 

*Epidiolex *


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## 911 (Sep 17, 2019)

rgp said:


> Isn't that by prescription only ? Or is there an OTC form of it?


Not here in Pennsylvania. I am fairly sure that some states are trying to regulate it.


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## 911 (Sep 17, 2019)

When using Epidiolex, I never got a buzz or any bad side effects, except I had an issue the first time that I used it with falling asleep.


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## Keesha (Sep 17, 2019)

Damaged Goods said:


> Wow, you guys have enlightened me as to alternative treatments, many of which I wasn't aware.  I will investigate and undoubtedly try some.  Thank you.
> 
> Regarding CBD, the legality is hazy, especially here in Md. which hasn't approved it and yet retailers like GNC advertise it.   Very confusing.  Also, because it isn't regulated, reports say that quality varies greatly.  Any recommendations as to a specific product, especially one that is applied topically??


CBD oil made from hemp should be 100% legal. Ones made from cannabis may or may not be depending on your states laws. These are two completely different plants. Hemp is legal everywhere in the world whereas cannabis has THC in it which is classified as a narcotic so may or may not be legal where you live. If it’s legal where you live you can purchase it online. CBD oil made from hemp should be legally sold everywhere.


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## Keesha (Sep 17, 2019)

StarSong said:


> Wow!  Agree with @Keesha.  What a wealth of information our group has, and how wonderful that so many share information and experiences.
> 
> I have osteoarthritis in several finger joints. They're sometimes quite painful, and the permanent swelling is a nagging annoyance. Nothing reliably eases the pain or swelling, which is worse during colder weather.
> 
> ...


Starsong

This information isn’t in place of listening to your physician but is written as an alternative to compliment your treatment.

https://www.healthline.com/health/osteoarthritis
Grated ginger made into tea  works as an anti inflammatory which can relieve pain.

A clinical study of gingers’  safety and efficiency to treat pain.

https://www.oarsijournal.com/article/S1063-4584(14)01276-X/abstract?cc=y=
How to make ginger tea

https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/benefits-ginger-tea
Green tea contains polyphenols which hemp reduce inflammation.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/top-10-evidence-based-health-benefits-of-green-tea
Research and clinical tests

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3239363/
Turmeric treats inflammation, pain and stiffness

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3591524/
From the arthritis foundation

https://www.arthritis.org/living-wi.../natural/supplements-herbs/guide/turmeric.php
Benefits of using it turmeric

https://www.healthline.com/health/rheumatoid-arthritis/rheumatoid-arthritis-turmeric
Alternating between hot and cold compresses before bedtime

https://www.healthline.com/health/chronic-pain/treating-pain-with-heat-and-cold
Epsom salts baths

Topical ointments and creams containing acetaminophen and ibuprofen or arnica cream or gel.

https://www.healthline.com/health/arthritis/creams#how-theywork

Natural relief from arthritic pain

https://www.healthline.com/health/osteoarthritis/arthritis-natural-relief#fatty-acids
Include fatty acids like omega 3 or gamma linolenic acid . Here’s a study by the arthritis foundation.

http://blog.arthritis.org/living-with-arthritis/omega-3-fatty-acids-arthritis/
Foods to avoid if you have osteoarthritis

White sugar
Salt
Fried foods
White flour
Omega 6 fatty acids
Milk
Alcohol

Eating well for osteoarthritis

https://www.healthline.com/health/osteoarthritis/osteoarthritis-diet#vitamin-c
Hope this info helps
Note: only added this stuff because you inquired about it and are open to holistic options


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## rgp (Sep 17, 2019)

"Grated ginger made into tea works as an anti inflammatory which can relieve pain.

A clinical study of gingers’ safety and efficiency to treat pain."

 What about a supplement of Ginger? Do they work ?


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## Keesha (Sep 18, 2019)

rgp said:


> "Grated ginger made into tea works as an anti inflammatory which can relieve pain.
> 
> A clinical study of gingers’ safety and efficiency to treat pain."
> 
> What about a supplement of Ginger? Do they work ?


Any form of ginger has anti inflammatory properties that help reduce pain. 
https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/benefits-ginger-tea#side-effects
I’m pleasantly surprised that natural products are finally getting recognized and funded by companies  who are willing to advertise. University studies are now willing to properly research natural products and compare them to conventional drugs and the placebo effect. 

Turmeric, for instance, has been studied and proven effective by many reputable universities. 

https://creakyjoints.org/alternative-medicine/turmeric-curcumin-for-arthritis/
Note:Holistic medicine isn’t for everyone but it is for some. These all natural substances are not made to replace medical treatment but merely alternative choices for those who understand this distinction.


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## rgp (Sep 18, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Any form of ginger has anti inflammatory properties that help reduce pain.
> https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/benefits-ginger-tea#side-effects
> I’m pleasantly surprised that natural products are finally getting recognized and funded by companies  who are willing to advertise. University studies are now willing to properly research natural products and compare them to conventional drugs and the placebo effect.
> 
> ...




 Thanks, I ask because I decided to go off my nsaids for at least two weeks,....if I can stand it ? As such I am going to use only "naturals" for that time. To try and curb the pain. I want to see if my gut feels better ? And I wonder if some of my backache is kidney related ? And perhaps flushing them / cleansing them might take that away.


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## Keesha (Sep 18, 2019)

rgp said:


> Thanks, I ask because I decided to go off my nsaids for at least two weeks,....if I can stand it ? As such I am going to use only "naturals" for that time. To try and curb the pain. I want to see if my gut feels better ? And I wonder if some of my backache is kidney related ? And perhaps flushing them / cleansing them might take that away.


Ginger is surprisingly effective for soothing nausea and stomach pain. 
Are these over the counter nsaids?
That kidney question was an intelligent one.


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## rgp (Sep 18, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Ginger is surprisingly effective for soothing nausea and stomach pain.
> Are these over the counter nsaids?
> That kidney question was an intelligent one.




One NASID is Indomethacin 50/mg [prescription] Two per day. The other is time release Tylenol, 4-6 p/day just now. I try different ones.


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## Keesha (Sep 18, 2019)

rgp said:


> One NASID is Indomethacin 50/mg [prescription] Two per day. The other is time release Tylenol, 4-6 p/day just now. I try different ones.


Ok. You may want to let your doctor know so he can supervise you but of course that’s your decision. 

I will hope for the best for you.


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## rgp (Sep 18, 2019)

Keesha said:


> Ok. You may want to let your doctor know so he can supervise you but of course that’s your decision.
> 
> I will hope for the best for you.




   Thanks for the well wish...........Frankly if he [my doc] were a better supervisor I'd feel better now.......... 

  I'm thinking about looking for a new doc, mine really doesn't do much......So [for my arthritis] anyway......I going to do a little self-doctoring .

 I can always give in to surgeons & such.........


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## StarSong (Sep 18, 2019)

Thank you @Keesha for that list!  I am indeed open to holistic healing options.  These links provide a wealth of information.    

I'll definitely try ginger tea, or perhaps ginger capsules since I already have a capsule-filling setup for making my own turmeric/black pepper caps. (It's much less expensive to fill my own caps.)

Anything made from a tea leaf (like green tea) is a no-go.  After multiple sleepless nights I learned that herbal tea is fine but decaffeinated isn't. Decaf isn't synonymous with caffeine-free. https://www.doctorshealthpress.com/food-and-nutrition-articles/green-tea-caffeine/

Using hot or cold is intuitive - my body is good at telling me which to use when.

I've bookmarked the sites you listed and will give many of these a whirl. I will be deeply grateful for any improvement in pain, inflammation, and prevention of additional damage.


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## Damaged Goods (Oct 26, 2019)

Damaged Goods said:


> Wow, you guys have enlightened me as to alternative treatments, many of which I wasn't aware.  I will investigate and undoubtedly try some.  Thank you.
> 
> Regarding CBD, the legality is hazy, especially here in Md. which hasn't approved it and yet retailers like GNC advertise it.   Very confusing.  Also, because it isn't regulated, reports say that quality varies greatly.  Any recommendations as to a specific product, especially one that is applied topically??



Did a lot of research and chose some companies highly recommended by both individuals and organizations. After trying an assortment of topicals and oils from these companies, there has been no improvement.

Guess alternative medicine and I just ain't compatible.  Tell you the truth, steroid injections have been worthless too.


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## gennie (Oct 26, 2019)

I'm 86 and have a lot of arthritis - head to toe.   The ointment Biofreeze helps me with elbow and shoulder pain.


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