# Student Debt Forgiveness



## caroln (Aug 31, 2022)

I've been hearing a lot about Biden's plan to reduce/forgive everyone's student debt by $20,000 if they earn less than $125,000 a year ($250,000 for married couples).  

I would think anyone who has struggled to pay off their student loans in the past with no help from anybody are incensed by this. 

Frankly, I think anyone making $125,000 a year should be able to make the payment on their loan without help from the government.   It's probably just a political ploy to get votes.  And will backfire.


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## Pepper (Aug 31, 2022)

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/so-what-do-we-think-about-college.74085/


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 31, 2022)

It is odd to me that the government feels so strongly about the burden of student loan debt when it is the government that made them so easy to get with government guarantees.

IMO paying student loan debt is about priorities.

I feel bad for the kids that took them seriously and worked hard to pay them off before they took on credit card debt, auto loans, mortgages, etc…


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## caroln (Aug 31, 2022)

Pepper said:


> https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/so-what-do-we-think-about-college.74085/


Sorry, I didn't know the thread, "so what do we think about college" was about student loan forgiveness.


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## Pepper (Aug 31, 2022)

caroln said:


> Sorry, I didn't know the thread, "so what do we think about college" was about student loan forgiveness.


I felt dopey about bringing it up but I thought you might like to know.  I'm sorry!


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## Alligatorob (Aug 31, 2022)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO paying student loan debt is about priorities.


Yep, its a decision to either go more deeply in debt, or forgo something else...


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## Gaer (Aug 31, 2022)

@caroln,  People have duel posts all the time.  Anyway, I agree with you in full!


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## Don M. (Aug 31, 2022)

IMO, anyone who takes on debt should only do so if they have the means to pay off that debt....be it student loans, credit cards, cars, mortgages, etc.  Anyone who expects the taxpayers to cover their poor decisions deserve little sympathy.  About the Only exceptions I would agree to would be if they suffer an illness or accident that leaves them disabled.


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## SeniorBen (Aug 31, 2022)

A big part of the problem is predatory lenders for college loans that prey on young, low income prospective borrowers who are desperate to climb out of poverty and want a better life but perhaps don't have the ability to make good decisions. They're excited about the prospect of going to college and perhaps being the first in their families to do so and they trust these vultures.

A lot of the predatory lenders work for private, for-profit colleges. When the student shows up for class, the instructors are often unqualified or sometimes they don't even have an instructor. I doubt any of them have an actual professor teaching the classes.

When student loan programs first went into effect in the '60s, the money went to schools to make them affordable. The schools oversaw the distribution of money and could be held accountable for waste and inefficiencies.

During the '70s, money started going directly to the students who could decide whether to go to public, private not-for-profit, or private for-profit universities and that's where the problems began. College became just another money making enterprise and educating the students became secondary. So began the "college industrial complex."

Profit is all that matters any more.


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## SeniorBen (Aug 31, 2022)

As far as the "I suffered so other people should suffer, too" mantra, that's total B.S. It's like extending a war so that those who already died won't have died in vain. That was an excuse used to justify continuing the Vietnam war.

Tuition and living expenses are higher now than ever before and far higher than they were just 25 years ago when housing costs and tuition started skyrocketing. It's tougher to go to college now than perhaps any time in recent history, but you can't earn a decent living now without a degree, so it's kind of a catch-22: you either go to college and go into debt or you take some crap job where you'll never get anywhere.


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## Jackie23 (Aug 31, 2022)

Here is a link about college tuition in other countries...some countries have free tuition and others no payment due until the person is earning a substantial income and low fees on what they borrow....in other words they are helping people get an education...it's not a unique idea and I'm sure the people appreciate the help.
President Biden has had plans for years for help with low income student debt and now that he is elected president it can happen.

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/student-loans-different-countries-international/


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## officerripley (Aug 31, 2022)

The money that they'll no longer have to send to those predatory lenders every month will be plowed back into the economy. (Sure, maybe some will take off & move to Fiji but not many I wouldn't think.)


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## Alligatorob (Aug 31, 2022)

officerripley said:


> plowed back into the economy


I'd be happy if someone gave me some money to "_plow back in_" be glad to do it...


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## Ruthanne (Aug 31, 2022)

Forgive them all.  Education should be free!!!


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## SeniorBen (Aug 31, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> Forgive them all.  Education should be free!!!


College is the only entity where you pay someone to tell you what to do. So, yeah, it should be free!


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## rgp (Sep 1, 2022)

Ruthanne said:


> Forgive them all.  Education should be free!!!




   Not on the backs of thoses that never had a chance to go, or do not desire to go, known as tax payers !!!

 And please don't tell me how ancient art studies , womens studies , etc have a positive effect on mankind. If a person want's to study that stuff & party for four years ? Let them dig in their own pocket ........ Not mine !


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## rgp (Sep 1, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> As far as the "I suffered so other people should suffer, too" mantra, that's total B.S. It's like extending a war so that those who already died won't have died in vain. That was an excuse used to justify continuing the Vietnam war.
> 
> Tuition and living expenses are higher now than ever before and far higher than they were just 25 years ago when housing costs and tuition started skyrocketing. It's tougher to go to college now than perhaps any time in recent history, but you can't earn a decent living now without a degree, so it's kind of a catch-22: you either go to college and go into debt or you take some crap job where you'll never get anywhere.



  "or you take some crap job where you'll never get anywhere."

 Describe some crap job .... and never getting anywhere ......... There are many good paying jobs/careers out there that do not require college .

  If we are talking educating the young ? How about we educate them on the fact that they do not need a 3000 sq/ft house with a 60" TV in everyroom, and the do not need to drive a $75-100,00 SUV [one for each parent] they do not need the latest & greatest smart watch ..... the minute it hits the market .... or to vacation in Cabo every year. Make coffee at home , as opposed to a $3. 50 -5.00 cup at Starbucks etc ..... You know, a true education on life.


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## caroln (Sep 1, 2022)

It would be nice if all education was free.  It would be nice if healthcare was free.  It would be nice if a lot of things were free.

But to steal a quote (slightly out of context):  _Freedom isn't free_. We enjoy a lot of benefits here, but we shouldn't expect everything to be served up on a silver platter, free for the taking.

At least not until some future "star date" where all of mankind exists just to improve themselves, money is no longer used, and anything you want can be delivered via a replicator.  

There are ways to help people pay off their student loans (as a previous poster stated) without slapping the faces of all the people before them who diligently scraped and saved to pay off their debts.


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## Timewise 60+ (Sep 1, 2022)

In my day, going to college was a privilege's.  Many of us boys felt pressure to go to college to avoid getting drafted when we graduated from high school.  If you went to college you got a 'student deferment'.  Which gave you four years to finish, then you still would get drafted, but you would go in as an officer.  The Vietnam war was in full bloom and I wanted nothing to do with that.  I did not have the money to go to college so So I had to get two student loans.  I do not recall how much money they were, but they later were a burden on us. 

Later, during my Sophomore, year I married my girl friend and started going to night school while I worked full time during the day.  I could not carry a full load in night school, so I lost my deferment.  A few weeks after that I got my draft notice.  I was rated 1A!  Lord help me...I ended up flunking the physical as I had been injured in high school football.  I went from 1A to 4F.  Thank God!  Right away I had to start making two payments on my student loans at both at $26.00 a month.  That was very difficult as we had a baby on the way and my wife could not work.  Somehow we made it, at the time it seemed like paying off those loans took forever, but when we finally made the last payment it was real good.  I did eventually get a college degree and later in life I went back and got an MBA.  

The college helped me get jobs and to move up within companies.  Looking back, it was a good investment in our future....and yes that girl I married is still with me  52 years later.   We earned every thing we got, we appreciate everything we have.  If the government offered me a handout, I don't think I would have felt right about it.  I probably would have taken it, but still it just would not have been right!

Our Government needs to address the problem, the high costs of tuition and the over payment of college professors and administrators, it is all out of wack!


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## C50 (Sep 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> "or you take some crap job where you'll never get anywhere."
> 
> Describe some crap job .... and never getting anywhere ......... There are many good paying jobs/careers out there that do not require college .
> 
> If we are talking educating the young ? How about we educate them on the fact that they do not need a 3000 sq/ft house with a 60" TV in everyroom, and the do not need to drive a $75-100,00 SUV [one for each parent] they do not need the latest & greatest smart watch ..... the minute it hits the market .... or to vacation in Cabo every year. Make coffee at home , as opposed to a $3. 50 -5.00 cup at Starbucks etc ..... You know, a true education on life.


Absolutly agree!


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## officerripley (Sep 1, 2022)

“The whole people must take upon themselves the Education of the Whole People and must be willing to bear the expenses of it.”
~~John Adams, 2nd Pres. of the U.S. (1797-1801)


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## officerripley (Sep 1, 2022)

"[Any tax paid in support of schools] is not more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings, priests, and nobles who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance.”
~~Thomas Jefferson, 3rd Pres. of the U.S. (1801-1809)


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## C50 (Sep 1, 2022)




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## Jackie23 (Sep 1, 2022)

You know in my long life I have bought 4 sets of hearing aids at great expense, I recently read that there will be new legislature that good hearing aids will be available to buy over the counter, I look on this as good news for all the people that need hearing aids.....I am not raging about 'poor me' and what it cost me in the past..same with the help on low income students debt and it is HELP, not free....with the very high cost of an education $10K or some 20K for others in no way should be labeled as a 'free' education.


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## rgp (Sep 1, 2022)

C50 said:


> View attachment 237247




  Someone else mentioned that & I agree. Not elective medical, but diseases that come out of nowhere . [cancer , heart disease] & such. 

Cut [if we can] the fees charged by the hospitals & the doctors. 

Yes I know they [docs] go to school for a long time ..... but now they want to go to school free ! ..... then graduate and still charge outrageous fees !


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## SeniorBen (Sep 1, 2022)

rgp said:


> Not on the backs of thoses that never had a chance to go, or do not desire to go, known as tax payers !!!
> 
> And please don't tell me how ancient art studies , womens studies , etc have a positive effect on mankind. If a person want's to study that stuff & party for four years ? Let them dig in their own pocket ........ Not mine !


Naaa, it won't cost more in taxes; we can just add it to the federal debt, just like the idiotic wars that cost trillions, or the tax cuts for the rich that increased the deficit by $100s of billions. Remember the deficit? It was $3.1 trillion in 2020. Deficit spending is so out of control, people don't seem to mention it any more except when it comes to investing in our country, and that's what college is: an investment in our country.

College educated people earn far more, on average, than those without higher education, and they pay far more in taxes, which pay for their student loans and grants many times over. There's a huge ROI in investing in college. 

What's the ROI for investing trillions in idiotic wars? How about we cut military spending and instead, invest that money in higher education?


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## helenbacque (Sep 1, 2022)

If this was done to try to get more votes, it will backfire.  Fairness is a basic tenet of the Dem Party and this is unfair on many levels.


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## Gaer (Sep 1, 2022)

officerripley said:


> “The whole people must take upon themselves the Education of the Whole People and must be willing to bear the expenses of it.”
> ~~John Adams, 2nd Pres. of the U.S. (1797-1801)


Although I have great admiration for our forefathers in America, I stand with @rgp on this one!
There are wise men that still live on this Earth.  They didn't all die off in the 1800's.
a political ploy? yes.
unfair to those who have paid their way? yes.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 1, 2022)

I do believe we should subsidize education, College and University included.  Not so much for the individual's benefit but because I think it helps our economy, and done right is more than returned in taxes paid by the beneficiaries.   It does help the poor who could not otherwise afford to go, but that help comes back to us.  In a way not a lot of other social spending does.

However, forgiving loans is a different issue.


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 1, 2022)

Don M. said:


> IMO, anyone who takes on debt should only do so if they have the means to pay off that debt....be it student loans, credit cards, cars, mortgages, etc.  Anyone who expects the taxpayers to cover their poor decisions deserve little sympathy.  About the Only exceptions I would agree to would be if they suffer an illness or accident that leaves them disabled.


That's easily said but when people take on debt, they don't know what the future holds. I don't think most people take on student loans with the intention of not paying them back! Some people had very good, well paying jobs and lost them unexpectedly, especially after COVID hit. One example is my nephew. He had an incredibly good career, he was a supervisor, traveled the country a lot for work on solo assignment on the company's dime. The company was bought out and earlier this year a lot of people lost their jobs, including him. My nephew doesn't have student loans to pay but does have a son in college.  I've read about formerly very successful people..business owners or high end career people who encountered circumstances they could not have foreseen and wound up homeless. As my mother used to say "You never know what you are coming to in this life".


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## Pepper (Sep 2, 2022)

NOT FAIR!  NOT FAIR!
bunch of babies.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 2, 2022)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I've read about formerly very successful people..business owners or high end career people who encountered circumstances they could not have foreseen and wound up homeless. As my mother used to say "You never know what you are coming to in this life".


Yep, it happens, life is neither fair nor all that predictable.

However when it comes to debts and repaying loans our system only works if the vast majority of loans are paid off.  Otherwise people would not be willing to lend money, and that is the life blood of our economy.  

Bankruptcy, though unpleasant is normally the way out for those who loose all and can't repay.  If it were not unpleasant too many people would use it.  I assume bankruptcy would also release student loan debts for those in such circumstances.  Better than the old work houses or jail...


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## SeniorBen (Sep 2, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Yep, it happens, life is neither fair nor all that predictable.
> 
> However when it comes to debts and repaying loans our system only works if the vast majority of loans are paid off.  Otherwise people would not be willing to lend money, and that is the life blood of our economy.
> 
> Bankruptcy, though unpleasant is normally the way out for those who loose all and can't repay.  If it were not unpleasant too many people would use it.  I assume bankruptcy would also release student loan debts for those in such circumstances.  Better than the old work houses or jail...


Student loans are not discharged through bankruptcies... unless you know how to game the system and have a good lawyer. It's all about knowing how to play the game, which most poor people don't or don't have the requisite resources. 

It's like taxes. The rich can find loopholes and get around paying taxes while the rest of us don't have that ability.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 2, 2022)

SeniorBen said:


> Student loans are not discharged through bankruptcies... unless you know how to game the system and have a good lawyer. It's all about knowing how to play the game, which most poor people don't or don't have the requisite resources.
> 
> It's like taxes. The rich can find loopholes and get around paying taxes while the rest of us don't have that ability.


Looked it up and you are right, discharging student load debt through bankruptcy is hard, but not impossible.  And as you say it might take a good lawyer.  

Student Loans and Bankruptcy: What to Know​https://www.usnews.com/education/bl...les/student-loans-and-bankruptcy-what-to-know


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## squatting dog (Sep 8, 2022)

Here's a thought for all those brain dead members of govt.


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## HarryHawk (Sep 8, 2022)

Here you have a poor couple earning only $250K a year.  It would take them a full 2 weeks to earn that $10K.  WHat's wrong with having some folks who never went to college have to get a second job as an Uber driver to help them out?


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## squatting dog (Sep 8, 2022)

HarryHawk said:


> Here you have a poor couple earning only $250K a year.  It would take them a full 2 weeks to earn that $10K.  WHat's wrong with having some folks who never went to college have to get a second job as an Uber driver to help them out?


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