# Wound up...can't sleep



## Don M. (Aug 16, 2017)

Just minutes after going to bed, the phone rang.  It was the hospital calling, 45 miles away, and asking if I could come up there to bring a neighbor home who was released from the emergency room.  This neighbor has been in very poor health for months, and lives alone, with his relatives being hundreds of miles away.  I visited him this afternoon, and he could barely function.  Shortly after I left, he apparently collapsed, and a couple of hours later, came to enough to call his home hospice service, and they came by and took him to the hospital.  They called about 11PM, and asked if I could come there to bring him home, as the doctors couldn't find a problem, and it would be several hours before the hospice service had a ride available.  I grabbed a quick cup off coffee, and headed out.  I got him back home about 2:30, and now I'm so hyped up that I can't sleep...so I hope some computer time will relax me.  We did get hold of his brother, in Des Moines, and he is headed down here and should arrive by early morning.  His relatives in Iowa and Nebraska have been trying to get him to locate to a care facility for quite some time....He is adamant in his refusal to do so.  On the drive back, he sounds like this episode may be giving him a change of attitude.  Living alone in the boondocks, in poor health, is Not a good idea.  

Sorry to vent, but getting this off my chest is helping me relax, so I'm going to try to sleep, now.


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## Marie5656 (Aug 16, 2017)

Good morning, Don.  Thanks for being a good neighbor to this person. Sounds a bit concerning that he went from "barely functioning" to released from ER.  Seems they would have wanted to at least keep him overnight.  But who are we?  But, maybe you are right.  This may be a wake up call for your friend.  
I am doing the early morning . can't sleep thing, too.  But for less stressful reasons.

Misery loves company.  Keep us posted on your neighbor's well being.


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## Warrigal (Aug 16, 2017)

They couldn't keep him there for a few extra hours "for social reasons"? IMO that is appalling.
Well done for taking up the slack.


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## Uncontrolable (Aug 16, 2017)

Don M. said:


> Just minutes after going to bed, the phone rang.  It was the hospital calling, 45 miles away, and asking if I could come up there to bring a neighbor home who was released from the emergency room.  This neighbor has been in very poor health for months, and lives alone, with his relatives being hundreds of miles away.  I visited him this afternoon, and he could barely function.  Shortly after I left, he apparently collapsed, and a couple of hours later, came to enough to call his home hospice service, and they came by and took him to the hospital.  They called about 11PM, and asked if I could come there to bring him home, as the doctors couldn't find a problem, and it would be several hours before the hospice service had a ride available.  I grabbed a quick cup off coffee, and headed out.  I got him back home about 2:30, and now I'm so hyped up that I can't sleep...so I hope some computer time will relax me.  We did get hold of his brother, in Des Moines, and he is headed down here and should arrive by early morning.  His relatives in Iowa and Nebraska have been trying to get him to locate to a care facility for quite some time....He is adamant in his refusal to do so.  On the drive back, he sounds like this episode may be giving him a change of attitude.  Living alone in the boondocks, in poor health, is Not a good idea.
> 
> Sorry to vent, but getting this off my chest is helping me relax, so I'm going to try to sleep, now.



How did the hospital come to think you were available for transporting their patients.  Why didn't they just admit this person instead of sending him home to a situation where there was no one to care for him?  Why don't you charge the hospital for transporting their patient?  An ambulance ride would have cost a few thousand.  No wonder they wanted you to take him.  Plus, it was 2:30am.  Pull up and invoice form on your computer, fill it out.  Send it to the hospital.  If they refuse it try small claims court.  Just saying.


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## terry123 (Aug 16, 2017)

They couldn't admit him for "observation" as Medicare doesn't pay for it.  If you are stable enough, you go home.  They probably asked him if he had a friend or someone that could pick him up.  Since he had talked to uncontrolable he thought of him.  He needs to go to a nursing home.  Maybe this will convince.  I would do something as I would not want to be a burden to anyone.


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## CeeCee (Aug 16, 2017)

This is going to be my problem in the future.  I live alone and have no family near enough, my daughter is the closest and is a 3 hour drive away.

My left shoulder has been very painful and I have an MRI scheduled for Friday...that's not the problem but I am scared to even do that alone but the problem is that if I need any surgery, I don't see how I can do it.

I have Medicare and a PPO as a supplemental which will only cover the hospital in Fresno so I can't even go to a hospital near my daughter.

Im also having all my Medicare wellness tests done and still couldn't schedule the required colonoscopy because they put you to sleep and someone is needed to take you home.  I'm not thrilled with doing a colonoscopy anyway, so at least I have a feeble excuse. 

I'm only on saying "hi" terms with my neighbors so I can't imagine anyone bringing me home from an ER or hospital emergency.

The one neighbor that I did rely on for some things has her own problems...her husband has Alzheimer's and is getting worse.

I don't even ask her to watch my house when I go away because I don't want to burden her.

i didn't mean to go off on my personal sob story and just want to add that was very kind of you, Don M and I hope my neighbors are as kind....at least I'm only a few miles from the hospital and not 45 miles away.

Middle of the night and 45 miles....you deserve the neighbor of the year award!  Sorry to say I probably wouldn't/couldn't do that.


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## Uncontrolable (Aug 16, 2017)

terry123 said:


> They couldn't admit him for "observation" as Medicare doesn't pay for it.  If you are stable enough, you go home.  They probably asked him if he had a friend or someone that could pick him up.  Since he had talked to uncontrolable he thought of him.  He needs to go to a nursing home.  Maybe this will convince.  I would do something as I would not want to be a burden to anyone.



Hi terry123.  I haven't talked with you for a while.  It is nice to here from you.  I worked in a hospital.  I just re-read the comment.  There is something I missed before.  

The "hospice" workers brought him to the hospital.  If he was receiving services from hospice he already had a terminal diagnosis.  He could have been admitted.  I have a doubt it was hospice workers who brought him in.  It may have been CNA's who brought him in.  However, this does not mitigate the idea that the hospital just threw their patient out of the hospital.  I know insurance rules are more ridged now but they cannot obligate a person who is not an employee to provide transportation even if they ask nicely.  

The staff in hospitals sometimes think they can just take advantage of nice people at 2:30 in the morning.  It is not Don M's fault, nor is it the patient's fault that he was just put out at 2:30 in the morning.  Frankly, I do not think they could do that.  It is only because Don M accepted the obligation that they could release the patient.  

This may mitigate the idea that he could get paid for it.  However, if the hospital said they had to put their patient out in order to force the issue, the hospital might be liable.   At the very least I would check with a medical accountant as to what might be possible.  Depending on what Don M thinks his time might be worth, he might ask for $1000 for his services.  Again, just saying.


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## Uncontrolable (Aug 16, 2017)

CeeCee said:


> This is going to be my problem in the future.  I live alone and have no family near enough, my daughter is the closest and is a 3 hour drive away.
> 
> My left shoulder has been very painful and I have an MRI scheduled for Friday...that's not the problem but I am scared to even do that alone but the problem is that if I need any surgery, I don't see how I can do it.
> 
> ...


Hi, I don't think I have talked to you before.  It is people like you who demonstrate why we need single payer health insurance. 
However, that is not why I am reacting to your post.  It used to be part of my job to link people with services.  There are several things you might check.  First, ask the local city bus service if they have services for the elderly and disabled.  They may have vans which will go door to door.  Try Catholic Social Services.  Try some of your local senior centers.  They may have volunteers, but you may have to join the center first.  Try St. Vincent De Paul.  At any of the places which have social workers ask them if they might be able to link you with volunteers.  Try the Salvation Army.  They provide a variety of services.  Don't forget Uber and your local taxis.  They may provide you with discounted service.  Last, try the hospital itself.  The hospital social worker might be able to link you with someone.  

There you go.  I have given you enough work to last you for a year.  So you had better not get sick any time soon.


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## CeeCee (Aug 16, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> Hi, I don't think I have talked to you before.  It is people like you who demonstrate why we need single payer health insurance.
> However, that is not why I am reacting to your post.  It used to be part of my job to link people with services.  There are several things you might check.  First, ask the local city bus service if they have services for the elderly and disabled.  They may have vans which will go door to door.  Try Catholic Social Services.  Try some of your local senior centers.  They may have volunteers, but you may have to join the center first.  Try St. Vincent De Paul.  At any of the places which have social workers ask them if they might be able to link you with volunteers.  Try the Salvation Army.  They provide a variety of services.  Don't forget Uber and your local taxis.  They may provide you with discounted service.  Last, try the hospital itself.  The hospital social worker might be able to link you with someone.
> 
> There you go.  I have given you enough work to last you for a year.  So you had better not get sick any time soon.




Haha, yes I better not get sick.  Thanks though, I guess there are options and if I need surgery I'd better have a backup plan.

transportation is only a small part of it though because I know that a shoulder surgery will take weeks of me not being able to do much..if alone.

I guess after the surgery my daughter could take me to her house but...they work and I'd be in almost the same boat as at home...almost.

I don't mind living alone but it comes with its pitfalls.


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## Iam (Aug 16, 2017)

Don. M. You deserve a good neighbour medal! I know almost nothing about US health service but I'd have thought he should have been admitted overnight for observation. You are the best kind of friend, I wish I could shake your hand!


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## Happyflowerlady (Aug 16, 2017)

I am pretty sure that my Medicare Advantage program provides a ride to/from both the hospital and doctor's appoints, at least up to a certain point each year. I have a friend who does not have a vehicle, and she said that she can use this private transportation even to go to a regular doctor appointment. 
I am not sure if the treatment facility would accept this for your colonoscopy appointment, CeeCee; but it is something to check and see about. The main thing is that a person is not in any shape to drive after the colonoscopy procedure (because of the sedation drugs), and as long as the medical office that is doing the procedure knows that you have a scheduled ride to and from the procedure, they should be fine with that. 
I am not sure if all of the Medicare supplements include this, or just the Medicare Advantage plans, but it is worth at least checking to see if yours covers this.


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## CeeCee (Aug 16, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> Hi terry123.  I haven't talked with you for a while.  It is nice to here from you.  I worked in a hospital.  I just re-read the comment.  There is something I missed before.
> 
> The "hospice" workers brought him to the hospital.  If he was receiving services from hospice he already had a terminal diagnosis.  He could have been admitted.  I have a doubt it was hospice workers who brought him in.  It may have been CNA's who brought him in.  However, this does not mitigate the idea that the hospital just threw their patient out of the hospital.  I know insurance rules are more ridged now but they cannot obligate a person who is not an employee to provide transportation even if they ask nicely.
> 
> ...



I agree with your comment about Hospice, I had it for my husband and if this person was still on it a call to Hospice would have been all that's needed.  They are very good at providing whatever needs provided and they do it quickly.  At least that was the case with my husband.  If Hospice took him to the hospital, Hospice woukd have picked him up too.


Maybe for some reason this person wasn't on Hospice anymore.  If you live longer than the 6 months or so they don't keep you on the program indefinitely.  But I'm just guessing now.


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## CeeCee (Aug 16, 2017)

Happyflowerlady said:


> I am pretty sure that my Medicare Advantage program provides a ride to/from both the hospital and doctor's appoints, at least up to a certain point each year. I have a friend who does not have a vehicle, and she said that she can use this private transportation even to go to a regular doctor appointment.
> I am not sure if the treatment facility would accept this for your colonoscopy appointment, CeeCee; but it is something to check and see about. The main thing is that a person is not in any shape to drive after the colonoscopy procedure (because of the sedation drugs), and as long as the medical office that is doing the procedure knows that you have a scheduled ride to and from the procedure, they should be fine with that.
> I am not sure if all of the Medicare supplements include this, or just the Medicare Advantage plans, but it is worth at least checking to see if yours covers this.




I do get a  ride I think but in the case of a hospital stay it doesn't cover someone taking care of me..if I need it.  I'm going to have to call my supplemental and find out what my options are but first I want to see what the MRI even shows and hope it doesn't mean surgery.

as for the colonoscopy ..I'm in no hurry at all.  I even suggested to my dr that I'll do a stool sample but he said no.  My husband did die of colon cancer but that has nothing to do with me but I did see how horrible a disease it is.


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## Uncontrolable (Aug 16, 2017)

terry123 said:


> They couldn't admit him for "observation" as Medicare doesn't pay for it.  If you are stable enough, you go home.  They probably asked him if he had a friend or someone that could pick him up.  Since he had talked to uncontrolable he thought of him.  He needs to go to a nursing home.  Maybe this will convince.  I would do something as I would not want to be a burden to anyone.


Medicare does cover some in home service.


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## Uncontrolable (Aug 16, 2017)

Uncontrolable said:


> Medicare does cover some in home service.



You right.


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## Don M. (Aug 16, 2017)

Update....I finally rolled out of bed a couple of hours ago, and drove over to Marv's place.  His brother from Iowa showed up about 5 minutes after I got there, and a few minutes later the home hospice care nurse arrived with some food, etc., for Marv.  The poor guy is still mumbling and stumbling, and I don't think the doctors/hospital have figured out how to handle this.  He has been on Chemo for the past couple of months for some lung cancer, and that has really knocked him on his tail.  Hopefully, now that his out of state family is becoming involved again, perhaps they can convince him to move to a care facility...at least until he shows some real improvement.  

As for me...I will probably get some serious recliner nap time today....didn't get much sleep last night.


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## CeeCee (Aug 16, 2017)

Don M. said:


> Update....I finally rolled out of bed a couple of hours ago, and drove over to Marv's place.  His brother from Iowa showed up about 5 minutes after I got there, and a few minutes later the home hospice care nurse arrived with some food, etc., for Marv.  The poor guy is still mumbling and stumbling, and I don't think the doctors/hospital have figured out how to handle this.  He has been on Chemo for the past couple of months for some lung cancer, and that has really knocked him on his tail.  Hopefully, now that his out of state family is becoming involved again, perhaps they can convince him to move to a care facility...at least until he shows some real improvement.
> 
> As for me...I will probably get some serious recliner nap time today....didn't get much sleep last night.



Poor guy, i do feel for him.  Glad you and his family were/are there for him now.  You do deserve a GREAT nap!


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## Warrigal (Aug 16, 2017)

CeeCee said:


> Haha, yes I better not get sick.  Thanks though, I guess there are options and if I need surgery I'd better have a backup plan.
> 
> transportation is only a small part of it though because I know that a shoulder surgery will take weeks of me not being able to do much..if alone.
> 
> ...



I've just had a shoulder replacement (8 weeks ago) and it was nowhere near as bad as I thought it was going to be. 
It required 2-3 nights in hospital and I was required to wear a sling for six weeks. I thought this meant that I would be unable to use my left hand for all of that time but I soon discovered that I wasn't all that incapacitated and I ditched the sling altogether after 4 weeks. Pain was minimal and healing was smooth. I've also had a hip and knee replacement and the shoulder has been the least trouble.

Uncontrolable has given you some good advice. Don't wait until you need hospitalisation. Go now and see what your options are. Shopping may be difficult but you can always order groceries online and have them delivered. 

Don't be afraid. If you plan ahead you will be fine.


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## Uncontrolable (Aug 16, 2017)

CeeCee said:


> Haha, yes I better not get sick.  Thanks though, I guess there are options and if I need surgery I'd better have a backup plan.
> 
> transportation is only a small part of it though because I know that a shoulder surgery will take weeks of me not being able to do much..if alone.
> 
> ...


One more thing I forgot about.  You could also reschedule the appt. until a better time.


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## CeeCee (Aug 16, 2017)

Warrigal said:


> I've just had a shoulder replacement (8 weeks ago) and it was nowhere near as bad as I thought it was going to be.
> It required 2-3 nights in hospital and I was required to wear a sling for six weeks. I thought this meant that I would be unable to use my left hand for all of that time but I soon discovered that I wasn't all that incapacitated and I ditched the sling altogether after 4 weeks. Pain was minimal and healing was smooth. I've also had a hip and knee replacement and the shoulder has been the least trouble.
> 
> Uncontrolable has given you some good advice. Don't wait until you need hospitalisation. Go now and see what your options are. Shopping may be difficult but you can always order groceries online and have them delivered.
> ...




Thanks for the info and advice, Warrigal.  My MRI is Friday and I'll go from there.  Hopefully won't even need surgery, but something needs to be done because I don't even have full range of motion with my arm. 

After your surgery, could you manage if you lived alone?


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## Trade (Aug 16, 2017)

CeeCee said:


> Im also having all my Medicare wellness tests done and still couldn't schedule the required colonoscopy because they put you to sleep and someone is needed to take you home.  I'm not thrilled with doing a colonoscopy anyway, so at least I have a feeble excuse. .



I had that problem the last colonoscopy I took. My wife doesn't drive because of epilepsy and I didn't want to ask my daughter because she lived in another town and was busy with her job anyway. So when they asked me if I had a ride home I lied and said "Sure, my wife will take me". So I went ahead and had the thing. Afterwards they had me sit in a wheelchair and "wait for my wife" to pick me up. I waited until no one was looking and got up and walked out. Some dude called after me "Sir! Sir!", but I just kept walking out to my car and drove away. What are they gonna do? Tackle you?

A short time latter I got something in the mail from them. I figured it was going to be some kind of notice from them giving me a ration of crap about walking out but all it was was a Thank you card telling me how much they appreciated me using their facility.


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## Uncontrolable (Aug 16, 2017)

Don M. said:


> Update....I finally rolled out of bed a couple of hours ago, and drove over to Marv's place.  His brother from Iowa showed up about 5 minutes after I got there, and a few minutes later the home hospice care nurse arrived with some food, etc., for Marv.  The poor guy is still mumbling and stumbling, and I don't think the doctors/hospital have figured out how to handle this.  He has been on Chemo for the past couple of months for some lung cancer, and that has really knocked him on his tail.  Hopefully, now that his out of state family is becoming involved again, perhaps they can convince him to move to a care facility...at least until he shows some real improvement.
> 
> As for me...I will probably get some serious recliner nap time today....didn't get much sleep last night.



I do not believe what I am hearing.  If what you are saying is accurate the hospital should not have discharged him unless he was oriented, and stated he wanted to be discharged.  This man could have been suffering from the cancer treatment in addition to some other opportunistic infection.  Just because a person's vital signs seem to stabilized does not mean they should be discharged.  This treatment could have been reported to Adult Protective Service as a case of neglect.  Adult Protective Service would have responded in 24 hours.  Once a client they might provide transportation.  It sounds like your friend was mentally incapacitated.  APS would have helped place him in a nursing home.  I used to work for them.


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## Warrigal (Aug 16, 2017)

> After your surgery, could you manage if you lived alone?



Probably CeeCee, but housework would have been minimal. We do have a subsided cleaning service once a fortnight so the bathroom, toilet, kitchen benches and floors are attended to. 

 I was probably more incapacitated before the operation because both shoulders were very arthritic and both were very painful. My hands were weak and shook when I held even a cup of coffee. Now only one is painful and in a couple of months I hope to have that one replaced too. I'm fast becoming a cyborg.

 Age is something to consider. Things won't get any easier by waiting too long.


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## CeeCee (Aug 16, 2017)

Warrigal said:


> Probably CeeCee, but housework would have been minimal. We do have a subsided cleaning service once a fortnight so the bathroom, toilet, kitchen benches and floors are attended to.
> 
> I was probably more incapacitated before the operation because both shoulders were very arthritic and both were very painful. My hands were weak and shook when I held even a cup of coffee. Now only one is painful and in a couple of months I hope to have that one replaced too. I'm fast becoming a cyborg.
> 
> Age is something to consider. Things won't get any easier by waiting too long.



Thanks!  I'm not even worried about the cleaning, just everyday simple things that I'd have to do with one arm/hand.  Guess I'm slowly getting used to it though because just putting my long hair into a ponytail hurts my left arm and shoulder.

i can't even imagine what the problem can be.  Have had shoulder pain off and on for years but just recently it's affected my arm movement and is always painful.


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## Uncontrolable (Aug 16, 2017)

Warrigal said:


> Probably CeeCee, but housework would have been minimal. We do have a subsided cleaning service once a fortnight so the bathroom, toilet, kitchen benches and floors are attended to.
> 
> I was probably more incapacitated before the operation because both shoulders were very arthritic and both were very painful. My hands were weak and shook when I held even a cup of coffee. Now only one is painful and in a couple of months I hope to have that one replaced too. I'm fast becoming a cyborg.
> 
> Age is something to consider. Things won't get any easier by waiting too long.



You should be in France, or another European country.  I do not know About the Aussies.  But in Europe your entire costs would be covered and likely home care as well.  This is the difference between the US and countries in the rest of the world.  Don't get me started.

t


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## Warrigal (Aug 16, 2017)

CeeCee said:


> Thanks!  I'm not even worried about the cleaning, just everyday simple things that I'd have to do with one arm/hand.  Guess I'm slowly getting used to it though because just putting my long hair into a ponytail hurts my left arm and shoulder.
> 
> i can't even imagine what the problem can be.  Have had shoulder pain off and on for years but just recently it's affected my arm movement and is always painful.


I did find shrugs and ponchos ideal to keep warm. I also have a couple of kaftans that I could pop over my nightdress instead of a dressing gown. Useful if someone knocked on the front door. If I wasn't going out I might stay in my nightie until lunch time.


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