# Familial "Half-wittedness"



## imp (Sep 5, 2015)

Just occurred to me today, as I lazed outdoors, thinking instead the doing I should have, in my experience, er,..."strangeness", perhaps eccentricity, seems to have been prevalent in more than one member of families I have known with it.

Then, came to think about, my sister's husband early-on, forbade all his kids from having anything ever to do with their uncle, ME! Throughout his lifetime, he hated me fervently, though I did many things for him, for example, installed full-house A/C in their heating system, for sweltering summers in Chicagoland. It was always behind my back, to my face he was civil, up to a point.

Of the five nephews and nieces, only the two nephews have been "like family" to me throughout the years. The three nieces, now ranging in age from 45 to 56, have not contacted, nor spoken to me in at least twenty years now, adhering to the demands made many years ago.

Do you believe such unusual traits tend to gather or accumulate within families?    imp


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## jujube (Sep 5, 2015)

Insanity doesn't run in my family.....it sort of slowly strolls through, getting well-acquainted with everyone.


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## Shalimar (Sep 6, 2015)

IMO, Imp, this type of family dynamic is  more common than most people think. You seem to have been designated as the family scapegoat for whatever reason (often jealousy,) by this controlling person. I suspect these relatives were poisoned before they were old enough to realise what was going on. I am pleased that your nephews have overcome their conditioning. I find it int'resting that the nieces have not. Again, very common for overbearing fathers to use this stuff to isolate, divide and conquer. So sad it happened to you.


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## Ken N Tx (Sep 6, 2015)

I have an estranged daughter that only contacts me and my wife when she needs something for her family. 
She has kept our grand daughter and grandson estranged from us again only when they want something. Our grand daughter is now expecting our first great grand son. Naturally we got an invite to the baby shower...We try and keep if civil and will attend..

She is also estranged from 4 of her 5 siblings.


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## Shalimar (Sep 6, 2015)

Ken, that must be so difficult for you.


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## Cookie (Sep 6, 2015)

Sadly this is almost normal in so many families.  Family feuds and estrangement might be because of misunderstandings, hurt feelings or offenses taken, maybe old family dynamics and rivalries that no one ever discusses. I think there's usually a back story but it may have gotten lost over time. I know it exists in my family of origin too and there's not much I can do about it now.


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## jujube (Sep 6, 2015)

It's been going on for generations.  My mother had two great-aunts who didn't speak to each other for almost 60 years over a piece of cheap jewelry that was an inheritance in dispute.


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## GeorgiaXplant (Sep 6, 2015)

jujube said:


> Insanity doesn't run in my family.....it sort of slowly strolls through, getting well-acquainted with everyone.



Yup. Exactly so in my family


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## Sassycakes (Sep 6, 2015)

My Dad's family are the strangest people I know. Because my parents married at a young age the 
family never cared for my Mother.We were never invited to any functions and none of my cousins 
were allowed to talk to me,My brother or sister.In spite of all that,my parents took us to
visit my grandparents every few weeks. When dinner time came the rest of the family would go
into the dinning room and eat while my  family had to stay in the living room. On Christmas 
when gifts were passed around we never got anything. In spite of all that we still respected 
my Dad's family. As the years have passed I became friends with some of my cousins. The reason we
became friends was because little by little many of the family members have turned against them. They
ask me all the time,how my family  handled it. My answer is we did it for my Dad. He was the best person 
in the world,and we never wanted to hurt him.


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## imp (Sep 6, 2015)

You are all so understanding, and observant, in the interpretation of my question. I had no idea my family was not rather unique in it's dysfunctionality. Evidently, families are well able to conceal the abnormality from many others, friends, acquaintances, even more remote family members. 

And, no one has (yet) questioned, nor been offended by, my use of the word in the thread title. I threw it in purposely, to see if it would provoke negatively. This current P.C. thing does not impress me much. I was scathed, all but boiled in oil, on another forum, for using the word "Chinaman", and at that, it was from a quote! Our old family doctor, as he unwrapped the bandages from my severely burned face, remarked, the "Chinaman" (Oriental intern at the hospital) should not have wrapped it so. 

There was a very popular movie out when I  was a kid, entitled "Chinatown". Do you suppose they cannot show it today?    

imp


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## imp (Sep 6, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> IMO, Imp, this type of family dynamic is  more common than most people think. You seem to have been designated as the family scapegoat for whatever reason (often jealousy,) by this controlling person. *I suspect these relatives were poisoned before they were old enough to realise what was going on. I am pleased that your nephews have overcome their conditioning*. I find it int'resting that the nieces have not. Again, very common for overbearing fathers to use this stuff to isolate, divide and conquer. So sad it happened to you.



It's quite a story. My sister, 12 years my senior, met and married a young Sailor discharged from the Navy in 1946. At the age of five, she made me an uncle, giving birth to the first nephew. LSS (Long Story Short?) she continued various escapades with former high school friends, she being 17 when the kid was born, and her new husband "stole" the infant, returning to Pennsylvania with him. His own mother contacted mine, stating she had her own small kids to c are for, my Mother & sister went there and brought him backl to Illinois. Thus, Dan grew up as my "brother", sister re-married and had Mike in 1951. The girls came along in '59, '60, and '70. I knew for a fact that they were all "turned against me" very early-on, Dan & Mike advising me of that. Dan was told at 13 he had a different father. After all these years, Dan has always refused to speak ill of his step-father, stating the man never mis-treated him in any way. My three nieces over the years went about the business of creating ill-will. Their father drank heavily, abused my sister physically often, a fact related to my by Mike, though years later. He never abused any of the children, that I am aware of. The man had an aunt who was committed to asylum for life, and often spoke of a similar circumstance befalling him. To illustrate, during some violent kitchen based outburst, the eldest daughter washing dishes, took up a large meat-knife and pointed it in his direction. He re-told that incident for years, cherishing it and laughing about it.    imp


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## Cookie (Sep 6, 2015)

When I saw 'half-wittedness', I understood 'not very clever'.  The use of 'Chinaman' is inappropriate in this day and age, people just don't say it here as it is considered offensive.  However, we do use Chinatown, as our city boasts of a very impressive Chinatown shopping area. We also have a nice Greektown and a Little Italy, Little Portugal, and Little India, to name a few. 

Getting used to being PC is the smart and diplomatic way to go, as it shows consideration for others of different cultures.  It also prevents conflicts with family and friends.


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## Debby (Sep 6, 2015)

Ken N Tx said:


> I have an estranged daughter that only contacts me and my wife when she needs something for her family.
> She has kept our grand daughter and grandson estranged from us again only when they want something. Our grand daughter is now expecting our first great grand son. Naturally we got an invite to the baby shower...We try and keep if civil and will attend..
> 
> She is also estranged from 4 of her 5 siblings.




I think some people were simply born to be a pain in the you know what.  I have a sister like that whom I haven't seen in about 35 years and the last time I communicated online and only once with her was about 25 years ago.  I don't miss her at all and if she comes to my moms funeral when it happens, I'll dread having to talk to her.   Good luck at the baby shower by the way Ken.


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## QuickSilver (Sep 6, 2015)

Well, MY family doesn't suffer from insanity............we all rather enjoy it.


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## Linda (Sep 6, 2015)

Lots of sadness for no good reason for many families.  I try not to think about it but at once point, one of our sons decided to hurt us by not allowing us to see his only child while he was in his last 2 years of high school.  Our grandson obeyed his dad and didn't come over even though he lived close by.  So his mom called (she and our son were divorced) and said our grandson wanted us to go to his high school graduation so we snuck into that and sat with her.  We saw our son come in and leave but he never looked up where we were sitting.  Then we got to speak to our grandson a few minutes afterwards.  A short time later when our other grandson had a BD party at our house the estranged grandson showed up.  That grandson and my husband have always been especially close.  I have a photo of him hugging my husband that day   (and it's obvious when it was cause he had long hair then)  on my refrigerator door. Later, after he was coming around again, our son never commented on it that his son was over here when he wasn't suppose to be.

How it all happened was.  A couple years after our son said we couldn't see our grandson anymore (Silly reason full of jealousy, sibling rivalry and paranoia), we were at a local community flea market.  I was looking at books (naturally) and my husband was a few feet behind me, when a tall man in dark sunglasses came up to me and said "Hi it's great to see you again" and stuck out his hand and I had no idea who he was but I went ahead and shook his hand, said HI and then went back to the books.  My husband came up behind me then and said "John, hello" and they shook hands.  Then I realized it was our son! So then he said he lived close by and would we come over for a BBQ so we did.  Nothing about the 2 years from hell were ever mentioned.  So then in the next couple years he healed his relationships with his sibblings and in March went down to LA and he and his youngest brother were able to say for the first time ever, "I love you".  And then he came home and about 3 weeks later died of a stroke.  Yeah, and that's all I have to say about that. Ok, so now I'll go back to packing for our trip to visit the 2 kids in LA. 

I won't tell other people what to do, but I'll never give up on anyone.  (Well, unless it was someone I really hated like a child molester or something).


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## Ken N Tx (Sep 7, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Ken, that must be so difficult for you.





Debby said:


> I think some people were simply born to be a pain in the you know what.  I have a sister like that whom I haven't seen in about 35 years and the last time I communicated online and only once with her was about 25 years ago.  I don't miss her at all and if she comes to my moms funeral when it happens, I'll dread having to talk to her.   Good luck at the baby shower by the way Ken.



Thank you.


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## fishfulthinking (Sep 9, 2015)

Plenty of familial halfwittedness on the side of my children's father due to our divorce.
Due to his infidelity we divorced after 17 years of marriage.  Not only did he leave us, he also forbade his entire family from ever speaking to us.  The result was a huge loss to my children they lost aunts, uncles and their only cousins.  The family dynamics shattered.  For years there was no contact from his side of the family.  My daughters grew up to be very different young ladies.  1 lived a very scattered and unstable life, moved away, and she had a number of children with a number of fathers (she has always hung onto some kind of hope with her father and retains a thin kind of communication with him).  The other has stayed with me, has a great career and has a wonderful young man in her life.  She has completely written off her father.  Fortunately for us... an interesting crossing of paths and I was able to reunite with my ex brother in law and sister in law.  It was very emotional.  This summer my youngest daughter was reunited with them as well, and her cousins.  It was further emotional because for 10 years her father kept her and her sister from seeing family.  (threats of all kinds).  This still remains a delicate matter as the mother of the ex (and my brother in law) still will call and harass my youngest daughter about seeing her father.  (there is more to this rift but details are not necessary).  Quite a roller coaster but I feel we are making good in roads.


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## Shalimar (Sep 9, 2015)

Wow Fishful, what a heartbreaking situation for you and yours to deal with over the years. So often it is the transgressor in a relationship that creates years of hell for the innocent parties involved. I applaud your strength and perseverance in dealing with the roller coaster. Wonderful news  that some healing is under way.


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## fishfulthinking (Sep 9, 2015)

Thanks Shalimar.  It certainly had it's ripple affect.  I forgot to add when we did finally see our long lost relatives we had my parents with us and my sister in law was in tears seeing all 3 generations.  It was a great feeling to reunite.


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## fureverywhere (Sep 9, 2015)

Insanity doesn't run in my family.....it sort of slowly strolls through, getting well-acquainted with everyone. 

Thank you. I so needed that


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## Shalimar (Sep 9, 2015)

I am reminded of something my first therapist said. "If only your family would get help, you would be so much healthier." lol.
Still applies!


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## lb1818 (Sep 9, 2015)

Quicksilver said "Well, MY family doesn't suffer from insanity............we all rather enjoy it."....perfect!


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## fureverywhere (Sep 9, 2015)

My hubby's brother was a waste of life from birth. Defiant from when he was a kid. When we moved in this house a neighbor said he used to throw fireworks at her kids. He went on to become a junkie, passing out on his dinner plate, barking at the bushes late night, then he got clean and became an active alcoholic. My oldest daughter at 14 went wild, refusing to go to school for her father or me. For unknown reasons he decided his brother would be the perfect role model. 

In Virginia you can go before a judge and say you don't know where the other parent is. We were separated but they knew exactly where I was. He gave his brother guardianship and I couldn't afford to fight it. His brother wouldn't allow contact. She snuck emails and phone calls sometimes. I haven't seen her for ten years. The middle daughter fought her own monsters and ran off to live there too. It's like her uncle could rewrite history and she was gullible enough to believe it all.

I got the last word. One night I was into my cups and brave enough to message her on FB. Basically saying she's grown now and it's been a long time and I pray we can eventually mend things. Her response was that her aunt was the only real mother she ever had...if G-d didn't make vodka for such occasion's I don't know who did.


The next day stone sober I was determined to answer that message. Basically in not so many words, that maybe someday when she's more mature she might understand. Oh and the worst thing you can say to your child " Someday you might have a daughter just like YOU". I ended it reassuring her I would stop messaging her and have a nice life. 

Am I bitter? You better &%$#ing believe it. But you have to let it go somehow or it will eat you alive. I wish her uncle a painful death...but for her, karma bites. A site that helped immensely is called Estranged Stories. It's a group that all have estranged children and/or grandchildren. They comforted me during the rougher days. I recommend them for anyone who needs a place to share.


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## Shalimar (Sep 9, 2015)

Fur, what courage it must have taken for you to reach out as you did. In the end, all we have is our truth.


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## lb1818 (Sep 9, 2015)

Fureverywhere, hopefully she'll have a much different perspective when she's older.  She definitely will as a parent.  Wishing you peace.


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## Kadee (Sep 9, 2015)

Second marriages can and do cause allot of dysfunction in families, many thought they could or would have a Brady bunch type mixed family, but they don't take into account interfering ex's who are quite often jealous of the new relationship...
As was my case even though my hubby was divorced for three years prior to me meeting him....I was still accused of putting an end to the hope of him and his ex of MAYBE getting back together one day ..:shrug: Their marriage ended because SHE moved out to be with another man..she was having an affair with while still with her ex ( my hubby) .But I was branded the BAD person ..I could never understand that ??


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## Shalimar (Sep 9, 2015)

Kadee, many people embrace denial as a way of life. It is often much easier than being accountable or simply facing hard facts. If you are a realist, it never will make sense to you. Be glad you live in the real world as opposed to being a reality shapeshifter. They are prisoners of their own gravity, and rarely, if ever, happy.


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## fureverywhere (Sep 9, 2015)

Thank you all for the kind words.


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## Kadee (Sep 9, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Kadee, many people embrace denial as a way of life. It is often much easier than being accountable or simply facing hard facts. If you are a realist, it never will make sense to you. Be glad you live in the real world as opposed to being a reality shapeshifter. They are prisoners of their own gravity, and rarely, if ever, happy.


Yes his ex is not happy ..her marriage to the man she was having an affair with, ended soon after I met hubby in 1986 .. She latter became involved with a drug addict, for about 7 years ,,who passed away a couple of years ago ....She phoned us to speak to my hubby to inform him she was on her own ...she still phones our home number every now and then and gives a huge sigh and hangs up ...or says Is R ... There no please or thank you .......(hubby never answers phone if I'm home)


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## Shalimar (Sep 9, 2015)

Kadee, how stressful that must be for you.


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## Kadee (Sep 9, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Kadee, how stressful that must be for you.



Oh I just laugh ..think she's the one who is costing her money for the phone call ,However  I believe hubby encourages her to keep calling by talking to her ..The excuse used to be the kids (2) but they are now in their 40's latest is her relatives passing away ..


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## jujube (Sep 9, 2015)

My late husband was alienated from his family for years because they didn't approve of our marriage.  The last time he saw his mother for five years was when she told him that she would rather be standing over his coffin and that she'd rather see him dead and buried than to marry me.  The reason?  He had spent his entire life preparing for the priesthood.  At the end of the four years of college/lower seminary, he decided he didn't want to enter the priesthood and went into the service instead.  A year and a half later, I meet him.  They hadn't given up the hope that when he got out of the service he would "come to his senses" and go back into the seminary.  Instead, he married a....gasp.... Protestant.   For at least the first three years, his mother referred to me as "The Whore of Babylon".  After five years, we all became _civil_ to each other but that was it until his parents died.  Then his ten brothers and sisters welcomed me and we became family.  And what's the worst part?  His father was cast out of _his_ Protestant family when he married and converted to Catholicism and then proceeds to do the same thing to his son.  We don't learn, do we?


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## Shalimar (Sep 9, 2015)

So sad Jujube. Glad at least you finally became family with the siblings.


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## fishfulthinking (Sep 10, 2015)

Fur, your story is heart breaking.  Husband and I are estranged from 5 of our 7 grandkids (yet another breakdown of my family).  It is unfair, painful and messy.  I know I can't possibly feel your pain but can understand your feelings.


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