# Stays on Death Row



## Katybug (Nov 20, 2013)

_They're on Death Row longer and longer anymore.  This guy admitted to 20 killings between 1977 and 1980 and was just executed.  Remember Larry Flynt?  This guy is the one who shot & paralyzed him, that's how long it's been. A lifetime ago, not that Mr. Flynt is/was anything resembling a decent human being, IMO.  

But for all the innocents who for no reason whatsoever lost their lives, and it was 100% proven he was guilty, GOOD RIDDANCE, Mr. Franklin!  Just wondering what took so darned long??!!_




*Joseph Paul Franklin, a white supremacist who targeted blacks and Jews in a cross-country killing spree from 1977 to 1980 and the man who shot Larry Flynt and left him partly paralyzed, was executed Wednesday by the state of Missouri.

*
*Franklin, 63, was put to death at a state prison a short time after the Supreme Court denied him a stay. His lawyers had contested the state’s drug protocol for lethal injection and argued that he was not mentally competent. A lower judge had granted a stay on Tuesday.
*

*Franklin was convicted in eight killings, and got the death penalty for a sniper attack outside a suburban St. Louis synagogue in 1977. He claimed responsibility for 20 killings in all.*


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## Old Hipster (Nov 20, 2013)

Cases like this where there is not one shred of a doubt about their guilt, they need to be put down immediately after their sentence. 

Our country is just insane how we let death row inmates live on for decades. 
When there are witnesses to a crime and or the killer confesses, then they should no longer be able to draw a breath on this planet. End of story.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 20, 2013)

Old Hipster said:


> Cases like this where there is not one shred of a doubt about their guilt, they need to be put down immediately after their sentence.
> 
> Our country is just insane how we let death row inmates live on for decades.
> When there are witnesses to a crime and or the killer confesses, then they should no longer be able to draw a breath on this planet. End of story.



This. /\/\/\

Gotta make the liberals happy, though ...


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## Old Hipster (Nov 20, 2013)

We have to quit mollycoddling criminals, murders in particular. And drunk drivers who kill innocent people, our state, Washington, is so easy on them it is sickening. 

Justice needs to be swift. 

When the Green River Killer was finally caught he made a deal he would show the Police where some of the bodys were buried in exhange for life in prison. I do know it was closure for some of the families, as I remember Ridgeway didn't give up all that much to make this deal.
I don't care what kind of deal was made, he needs to die.

I always think how hard it must be for the family's and freinds of murder victims to know that their killer is living out a life of pretty much luxury in prison.


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## Davey Jones (Nov 20, 2013)

*Justice needs to be swift. 


Sorry no such thing anymore.
If you're sentence to death you got another 30-40 years to live.
*


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## Old Hipster (Nov 20, 2013)

Davey Jones said:


> *Justice needs to be swift.
> 
> 
> Sorry no such thing anymore.
> ...


I know, nothing makes sense and it is getting worse all of the time.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 20, 2013)

Then there's spineless scumbag politicians like this, who don't care for the victims families, the voter's rights, or that fact that he's protecting a murderer who said that the killing was better than sex.  All Gov. Hickenlooper of Colorado cares for is his own political career!  http://www.redstate.com/2013/05/27/...er-commutes-death-sentence-until-end-of-term/


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## Old Hipster (Nov 20, 2013)

SeaBreeze said:


> Then there's spineless scumbag politicians like this, who don't care for the victims families, the voter's rights, or that fact that he's protecting a murderer who said that the killing was better than sex. All Gov. Hickenlooper of Colorado cares for is his own political career!  http://www.redstate.com/2013/05/27/...er-commutes-death-sentence-until-end-of-term/


Absolutely sickening.

When people care more about the rights of the criminal than the victim something is not right.


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## Katybug (Nov 20, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> This. /\/\/\
> 
> Gotta make the liberals happy, though ...




I totally agree w/ Old Hipster...when there in not one shred of doubt, the sooner the better.   I'm the OP here and I'm a strong middle of the road Democrat.  My opinion on capital punishment totally differs from my more liberal friends.  I'm wondering how much longer that wife/baby-killing monster Scott Petersen gets to live???!!!


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## Old Hipster (Nov 20, 2013)

Katybug said:


> I totally agree w/ Old Hipster...when there in not one shred of doubt, the sooner the better. I'm the OP here and I'm a strong middle of the road Democrat. My opinion on capital punishment totally differs from my more liberal friends. I'm wondering how much longer that wife/baby-killing monster Scott Petersen gets to live???!!!


Another classic example of justice not being served.

I always wonder how the "bleeding hearts" would act when it is the killer of their loved one who is allowed to live on, life in prison, big deal! 
I remember the night they were going to fry Ted Bundy, crowds were outside the prison protesting. I'm a real eye for an eye person and the death pentaly is certainly called for in many cases. And those people are idiots, and I am not opposed to a little "cruel and unusual", like their victims had to endure.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 20, 2013)

You people would hate it down here in OZ.  We have no death penalty at all.  
People go pale at the thought of it.  We hand out a couple of years in an  OH&S , humanitarian, and civil libertarian approved taxpayer funded Penal Hotel.  
We don't keep them in long, that may be detrimental to their well being and self esteem.  Gotta keep treatment of scum ethical or some jumped up outfit like Amnesty International may shake a finger at us.  Oooo   scary that.

Sentences here are totally incomprehensible.  There is no correlation whatever between the crime and the punishment. The whole justice system seems to run along the lines of a kindergarten lucky dip.

We have cold blooded killers handed 5 to 10 who get parolled after 4 and kill again.  We have rapists who didn't kill anyone handed anywhere between 25 to life.   'Life' here can vary between 25 years to never to be released but it seems pretty flexible.
Bank robbers as a rule of thumb get longer sentences than murderers.  
High profile thieves who have ripped off millions, transferred the money to the Caymans, bankrupted the company, and caused suicide in their investor victims get 5 years in a low security country retreat and are usually out in 2 and go on to give copious TV interviews and hand out advice.  
A middle aged woman accountant who stole a couple of hundred thousand from a big company got handed 17 years!

The number of murderers serving life with no parole could be counted on the average number of human digits.

We got serial killers who preyed on tourist backpayers, (think 'Wolf Creek')  and even one who makes Hanibal Lector look wussy. 
 A woman who skinned her boyfriend, hung his pelt in the living room doorway and had bits of him on cooking for dinner for his kids.   Psycho? yes... insane nope, not officially.  Just the most evil bitch around at the time who suffered really bad mood swings.  She'll no doubt live off us in comfort for many years to come.  I believe she lodged an appeal for early release.  That at least went nowhere.

We recently 'lost' a high media profile, murderous, self confessed hit man to cancer.  He spent a lot of time in jail but none of it for murder. Go figure.  He was really entertaining in a black humour kind of way, gonna miss ole 'Chopper' doing gigs on the club entertainment circuit, giving a humorous insight into the fun side of murder and organized crime.  Have to admit to chuckling at a few things he's said myself, just being a total sociopath doesn't mean you can't be funny with it I guess.  But then I do appreciate black humour more than some. 



We do seem to have a better justice system in action within the prisons though. Child molestors, bent cops and just plain arseholes don't always complete their sentences.  One fairly recent high profile drug boss and serial competitor remover was despatched by another inmate by way of a well aimed application of a piece of exercise machine  to the back of his skull.  That's what someone should have done years ago. Could have saved us all a fortune.

So, whenever you feel frustrated by waiting so long to off these people just remember it could be worse.  Down here they'd have been out on parole a lot sooner that you people take to put 'em down.  Feel better now?


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## SifuPhil (Nov 20, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> We got serial killers who preyed on tourist backpayers, (think 'Wolf Creek')  and even one who makes Hanibal Lector look wussy.
> A woman who skinned her boyfriend, hung his pelt in the living room doorway and had bits of him on cooking for dinner for his kids.   Psycho? yes... insane nope, not officially.  Just the most evil bitch around at the time who suffered really bad mood swings.  She'll no doubt live off us in comfort for many years to come.  I believe she lodged an appeal for early release.  That at least went nowhere.



As an avid fan of Dr. Lector I must protest your intimation that Katherine Knight was more of an artiste.

She showed no style, no originality nor any knowledge of internal organs. She only stewed his head and scraped his buttocks - she never made a liver pate nor any other organ-based dish, the nutritional value of which is far superior to mere flesh.

And, the police confiscated the meal before the children even arrived home. What good is a supposed "gourmet" meal when there is no one to appreciate it? At least Dr. Lector would feast on his own cooking when absent an audience. That's the real sign of an accomplished chef.

That she slashed the throat of an 8-week-old puppy in front of another husband proves that she hated animals, never a good sign in a TRUE cannibal.




> Feel better now?



Now that I have defended the good doctor's name, yes, thank you. 

... try the liver, it's especially good this evening ...


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## Diwundrin (Nov 20, 2013)

I see you have discerned that Kath was a lousy cook.  She's sure a piece of work though.  My best friend actually knew her, casually.  They frequented the same venues in Muswellbrook.  A relative met, and had occasionally worked with her victim so that one is a little closer to home than most.

I hope my sincere apologies to Hanibal will go over okay, wouldn't wanna upset anyone.


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## Ozarkgal (Nov 20, 2013)

*Phil*


> .. try the liver, it's especially good this evening ...



Don't forget the fava beans and a nice Chianti, of course.










*SeaBreeze*:  


> All Gov. Hickenlooper of Colorado cares for is his own political career!


 
That's a prerequisite to be a politician.  IMO they are all cut from the same fabric.  The first thing they learn is to do and say whatever will garner them the most political favors.   

*Old Hipster:*


> I always wonder how the "bleeding hearts" would act when it is the killer of their loved one who is allowed to live on, life in prison, big deal!



The bleeding hearts would have a bleed out.  They would probably become the most pro death penalty advocates of all.


It's amazing that so far on this thread all seem to agree about crime and punishment, which is usually a very controversial subject.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 20, 2013)

Ozarkgal said:


> It's amazing that so far on this thread all seem to agree about crime and punishment, which is usually a very controversial subject.



I'm VERY surprised as well. On other forums where I've had this discussion it's like pulling teeth.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 20, 2013)

Wait a bit, Warri hasn't waded in yet, I'm sure there'll be a Pollyanna argument for sparing the poor misunderstood crims.


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## Katybug (Nov 20, 2013)

Old Hipster said:


> Another classic example of justice not being served.
> 
> I always wonder how the "bleeding hearts" would act when it is the killer of their loved one who is allowed to live on, life in prison, big deal!
> I remember the night they were going to fry Ted Bundy, crowds were outside the prison protesting. I'm a real eye for an eye person and the death pentaly is certainly called for in many cases. And those people are idiots, and I am not opposed to a little "cruel and unusual", like their victims had to endure.



Funny you should mention Ted Bundy, as his crimes were a major turning point for me and the reason I came to know I believed in the death penalty. I had read so many books written on him and knew the gory details of all the many deaths he was responsible for.  Too many young women had been killed/raped/tortured by him. But I was fascinated by him at the same time because he was so well educated, so good looking, and soooo very crazy.  He would never have stopped his serial killings had he not been caught.  I was elated with the verdict, because I could imagine being the mother of one of those young girls.  And there was not a shred of doubt in anyone's mind. In fact, if you recall, he tried to bargain with telling body locations to avoid death row just before execution. It was too late!

Without a shred of doubt of his guilt, I will feel the same when Petersen is taken out, if I live that long.  A man who can kill his wife pregnant with his baby who was already fully formed,  is as cold blooded evil as it gets.  Like  you said, the sooner, the better.  I only hope it brings some peace and closure to Lacy's family.

Sorry to have hijacked this post.  Got started and couldn't get stopped.  I apologize.


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## Katybug (Nov 20, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I'm VERY surprised as well. On other forums where I've had this discussion it's like pulling teeth.



It usually all out war, isn't it?  I rarely post anything too controversial, but I know there are democrats who don't agree with me on capital punishment.  I don't expect them to, but neither would I argue w/them over it.  They've felt this way all their life, just as I have.  Arguing and trying to badger them into your point of view is a ridiculous waste of time.  They have their reasons same as I do.  And I won't ever discuss politics publicly unless I know for a fact they feel the same way I do.... and also my 2 daughter's families...one who agrees with me 100%, but my other daughter & husband are Independents....and IMO waste their vote every election.  Vote for who you believe in, but for heavens sake let it be someone with a chance of winning. Independents may get in down the road, but no time soon.  They have never voted for a Republican or Democrat in their life and seem totally oblivious that their candidate(s) never stands a snowballs chance in hell of winning!  LOL  I don't say a word....


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## SifuPhil (Nov 20, 2013)

Yeah, see, that's one of my problems ... I'm apolitical, so a topic like the death penalty (well, ANY topic really) usually degrades to an argument about politics and finger-pointing and name-calling, and the original topic gets lost in the chatter. 

My basic question was always: if it were YOUR spouse or child that was raped / tortured / killed / whatever, would you still want the perp to spend time in jail instead of being executed?

Many replied "yes", but I have a suspicion that they never fully engaged with the scenario. It's easy to say "be merciful" when it happens to someone else; you rarely can imagine what it would be like if it happened to you. When I point that out they swear they would still be against capital punishment, so knowing I'm not speaking with saints I usually give up. 

That, or it's the religion argument: _only God can take a life_. I then ask did God take the life that the perp took, too? But again it goes round and round in circles, so I give up once more.


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## Warrigal (Nov 20, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> Wait a bit, Warri hasn't waded in yet, I'm sure there'll be a Pollyanna argument for sparing the poor misunderstood crims.


Nope. None of my business.
My only caution is to make sure that the convictions are sound, which history has shown is not always the case.


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## Katybug (Nov 20, 2013)

It just has to be really, really hard to defend some....Try to imagine being defense atty for Charles Manson.  I don't know where you would begin defense of such a man.  But he's still with us, evil as can be, and damn CA for doing away with the death penalty just before he was about to have it delivered and to one who needed it as much as it has ever been needed.    The good news....I doubt there's a person in America who would vote to let one so obviously totally insane back on the streets. They may be to the max in overcrowding, but this man will die behind bars.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 20, 2013)

Katybug said:


> ...    The good news....I doubt there's a person in America who would vote to let one so obviously totally insane back on the streets. They may be to the max in overcrowding, but this man will die behind bars.



I don't know about that, Katy - you might want to check with the members of his fan club, or check out his Facebook page that has over 2,500 Likes ... 

For every monster among us, no matter how heinous their crimes, there are those who admire and, sometimes, emulate them.


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## Old Hipster (Nov 21, 2013)

Katybug said:


> Funny you should mention Ted Bundy, as his crimes were a major turning point for me and the reason I came to know I believed in the death penalty. I had read so many books written on him and knew the gory details of all the many deaths he was responsible for.  Too many young women had been killed/raped/tortured by him. But I was fascinated by him at the same time because he was so well educated, so good looking, and soooo very crazy.  He would never have stopped his serial killings had he not been caught.  I was elated with the verdict, because I could imagine being the mother of one of those young girls.  And there was not a shred of doubt in anyone's mind. In fact, if you recall, he tried to bargain with telling body locations to avoid death row just before execution. It was too late!
> 
> Without a shred of doubt of his guilt, I will feel the same when Petersen is taken out, if I live that long.  A man who can kill his wife pregnant with his baby who was already fully formed,  is as cold blooded evil as it gets.  Like  you said, the sooner, the better.  I only hope it brings some peace and closure to Lacy's family.
> 
> Sorry to have hijacked this post.  Got started and couldn't get stopped.  I apologize.


I live in western Washington State and let me tell you we were all scared in the 70's, very leery of stranger danger! And then after Ted we had the Green River Killer working.  It seemed like we went right from Bundy into Ridgeway's murder spree. I hated being out alone at night, I worked night shift in the Kent area and was always creeped out driving home at 2 am.


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## babyboomer (Nov 21, 2013)

Do not get carried away. Actions like "capitol punishment ' are purely political.
"To kill, or not to kill" it's a question. In some enviroments "hanging" as such is a part of heritrage, folklor, or what ever. 

But let me ask you, my dear Forum fellows, how many of you..if faced with the action, would be able to executethe actof execution.
Is it the answer, to kill, to justfy a murder or crime.
After all, we humans price our selves above animals!


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## SifuPhil (Nov 21, 2013)

babyboomer said:


> Do not get carried away. Actions like "capitol punishment ' are purely political.
> "To kill, or not to kill" it's a question. In some enviroments "hanging" as such is a part of heritrage, folklor, or what ever.
> 
> But let me ask you, my dear Forum fellows, how many of you..if faced with the action, would be able to executethe actof execution.
> ...



I don't fool myself by thinking I'm above animals; in fact, in many ways I am below them.

I would gladly throw the switch / pull the trigger / make the injection / throw the stone. I've seen too much inhuman behavior to do otherwise.

You're not justifying anything - you're ensuring that THAT particular beast no longer draws breath and brings sorrow to REAL humans.


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## Diwundrin (Nov 21, 2013)

That, like euthanasia, is for the individual conscience to decide. There are always those who do find it within their capabilities to end a threat permanently with no conscience conflicts at all, nor are these people killers by nature.  It equates with those soldiers who can carry out their duty to kill when it is necessary without turning homicidal.

The person who can chop off a chicken's head isn't thought of as a potential axe murderer, why should an executioner be deemed a murderer?  That attitude is strictly a religious one but no one of that belief would be asked to carry out an execution.  It just doesn't work they way so it's a moot point.

It doesn't matter that those who want a danger to society dead don't carry out the sentence themselves.  It is a decision arrived at by mutual consent and who carries out the sentence should carry no guilt for doing the duty.

By extension your reluctance to kill a person who is a danger to either or your own, or another's family makes you an accomplice to his crimes as you enable him to continue to frighten people.  No matter that they may be physically incapable of further crime due to incarceration, the fear of him/her lives on. 
Their continued existence breeds distrust in the justice system and resentment that his/her life is held to be sacred, while the lives of their victims are downgraded by comparison as no mercy was shown to them. In many cases the victims lives are trivialised as they become 'props' in the ensuing court cases, and sometimes even impact statements aren't allowed to be made and/or are ignored when sentencing is considered.  The perpetrator's life should never be seen to hold more value than that of his victim, with some  exceptions.  There are always exceptions, but we're talking about iron clad convictions of people too dangerous to ever be released, or forgiven.  Yes, I could probably shoot someone who'd taken a loved one of mine.  I get really stroppy about that kind of thing.  

Why exactly are we better than animals by the way?  Just because we're supposedly smarter?  We are animals, we are a product of nature and evolution and haven't changed all that much from the stone age, psychologically.  We still live by the same instincts we had as primates, we just give them fancier names now.  
Or is it only religious people who can 'price themselves above animals'?


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 21, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I would gladly throw the switch / pull the trigger / make the injection / throw the stone. I've seen too much inhuman behavior to do otherwise.
> You're not justifying anything - you're ensuring that THAT particular beast no longer draws breath and brings sorrow to REAL humans.



I completely agree, and feel the same way, especially if it was one of my loved ones that was victimized.  They just sentenced that kid to life for the kidnapping, ****** assault, strangulation/drowning, and dismemberment of 10 year old Jessica Ridgeway.  He got lucky that he was only 17 at the time of the crime, so they had to just put him in jail.  Now we get to pay for his 3 hots and a cot, cable TV, medical care, gym membership and schooling. 

His family was finding child porn, and cut up bodies on his computer since he was 12.  He made that poor girl dress in a certain outfit, and he cut her hair before he sexually assaulted her to fulfill his fantasy.  Yeah, tell me I'd have trouble pulling the switch on that bastard.   I've never killed an animal, because when they kill it's a natural behavior for their survival, they don't kill for sick thrills.


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## Old Hipster (Nov 21, 2013)

Other animals are so far superior to human animals. We are the lowest of the low, do other animals kill for fun and torture just for kicks, not that I know of.

Seabreeze and Phil I'll get in line with you. Wouldn't bother me a bit to pull the switch, or shoot a killer or any other method to stop them from breathing.


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## That Guy (Nov 21, 2013)

And then there's these jackasses who become multimillionaires promoting the thug life . . .


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## Old Hipster (Nov 21, 2013)

Dumb asses!

I was thinking how we think nothing of putting down a rabid dog or any other rabid animal, I'd feel worse about that than seeing some thrill kill murderer put out of our misery.

Where's Dexter or The Boondock Saints when ya need 'em.

I always like what Vonnegut had to say on any subject...especially trying to make sense out of life!!!

I had taught myself that a human being might as well look for diamond tiaras in the gutter as for rewards and punishments that were fair.

Ok now I am just starting to ramble. nthego:


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## Katybug (Nov 21, 2013)

SifuPhil said:


> I don't know about that, Katy - you might want to check with the members of his fan club, or check out his Facebook page that has over 2,500 Likes ...
> 
> For every monster among us, no matter how heinous their crimes, there are those who admire and, sometimes, emulate them.



I hear things like this all the time, Phil.  Casey Anthony always had money in her "jail bank" from her many admirers.  Without a doubt, both of them known killers!  Truth remains stranger than fiction.


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## SifuPhil (Nov 21, 2013)

Katybug said:


> I hear things like this all the time, Phil.  Casey Anthony always had money in her "jail bank" from her many admirers.  Without a doubt, both of them known killers!  Truth remains stranger than fiction.



Yes it does.

That's why I gave up writing fiction - non-fiction is SO much more entertaining! layful:


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## RedRibbons (Nov 24, 2013)

Katybug said:


> I totally agree w/ Old Hipster...when there in not one shred of doubt, the sooner the better.   I'm the OP here and I'm a strong middle of the road Democrat.  My opinion on capital punishment totally differs from my more liberal friends.  I'm wondering how much longer that wife/baby-killing monster Scott Petersen gets to live???!!!



I totally agree! He will be around for probably ten or more years. Used to, death sentences were carried out in a few months. Now, they can make appeal, after appeal usually living around 15 years after sentence. Jeffrey Dahmer would still be alive, had not an imate carried out his own version of justice. Why should tax payers have to pay for many years of those creeps living in prison?


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## Katybug (Nov 29, 2013)

The wheels of justice move pathetically slow in the USA, so Petersen will probably be with us way too long.  I understand he has quite the following of foolish idiots as well!


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## Old Hipster (Nov 30, 2013)

RedRibbons said:


> I totally agree! He will be around for probably ten or more years. Used to, death sentences were carried out in a few months. Now, they can make appeal, after appeal usually living around 15 years after sentence. Jeffrey Dahmer would still be alive, had not an imate carried out his own version of justice. Why should tax payers have to pay for many years of those creeps living in prison?


I like those stories, when the inmates carry out their own brand of justice! Violent offenders are making themselves useful. 

There really is no justice anymore, the rights of the criminals seem to be worth more than their victims.


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