# Islam is incompatible with Western Culture and Laws



## Lon (Dec 7, 2015)

Now please don't respond by calling me a racist or bigot, but if what I post in my OP is true and you believe it then give me a solution or thoughtfull response to what I see as a real Big Problem.For Muslims to fully Assimilate they will have to adapt to our culture and laws or we bend over backward to accommodate their culture and laws and thus loose our heritage.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 7, 2015)

It is not incompatible with Australian culture and laws. 

This PDF document on Facebook sums up a year long process of the National Imans Consultative Forum and is intended to inform Australian Muslims and non Muslims alike of the obligations of Muslims to Australian society.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153801940246532&set=pcb.1498413007128266&type=3&theater

If you can't read at that link, try here

http://nceis.unimelb.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/1467362/NICF-Statements.pdf


----------



## WhatInThe (Dec 8, 2015)

Assimilation or integration with any culture means exactly that. It does not mean the formation of a secondary culture filled exemptions because on does not want to fully integrate into the original culture they voluntarily chose to migrate to.


----------



## Ameriscot (Dec 8, 2015)

I guess the requirement to assimilate didn't apply when all of our ancestors invaded America slaughtering Native Americans, stealing their land, and dismissing their cultural practices.


----------



## WhatInThe (Dec 8, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I guess the requirement to assimilate didn't apply when all of our ancestors invaded America slaughtering Native Americans, stealing their land, and dismissing their cultural practices.



When our ancestors came to a new land centuries ago they didn't come across signs, warnings, artificial barriers clearly defining borders nor were they instructed or told these are the requirements to come here. What did the forms and paperwork say 600 years ago? Doesn't excuse treaty violations because that was the paperwork.


----------



## chic (Dec 8, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Assimilation or integration with any culture means exactly that. It does not mean the formation of a secondary culture filled exemptions because on does not want to fully integrate into the original culture they voluntarily chose to migrate to.



That's not entirely true. Hasidic Jews have their own culture as do the Amish.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Compassion is negated unless compelled? Eek. Not in my world, thank you.


----------



## WhatInThe (Dec 8, 2015)

chic said:


> That's not entirely true. Hasidic Jews have their own culture as do the Amish.



Most Amish live where their preferred life is more practically accomplished. They are not in the middle of a highly populated area like NYC. The Hasidic Jews try to maintain many customs but radical changes or exemptions really don't have to be made. The Jewish community in many areas has not only assimilated but excelled in the US life going into rigorous and profitable professions.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Canada celebrates multiculturalism as opposed to total assimilation. For starters, one third of our population (approx) identify as Francophones. Not all live in Quebec. Our Inuit, Dene, other indigenous First Peoples also celebrate their cultures. So do Hutterites, Mennonites etc.

Immigrants from around the world do also. We believe our diversity is our strength. Students of all ethnicities  are now able to learn aboriginal language at school. In a climate of tolerance and respect, diversity flourishes. When after the Paris massacre, 

Toronto Muslim women were attacked, Torontonians took to social media offering to sit beside their "Muslim sisters" on public transit. The bigotry and hatred of the few must never be permitted to to silence the justice and compassion of the many. Je suis Muslim! Je suis Juif---je suis Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist, et al.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Hmm. In this town alone, I count four Muslim doctors, two dentists, assorted teachers. One of my colleagues is a psychiatrist. Two poets, one physiotherapist, several artists, singers. These are highly accomplished people, but more important to me, kind 
individuals who give back to their community in diverse ways.


----------



## Ameriscot (Dec 8, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Compassion is negated unless compelled? Eek. Not in my world, thank you.



Mine either.


----------



## Ameriscot (Dec 8, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Canada celebrates multiculturalism as opposed to total assimilation. For starters, one third of our population (approx) identify as Francophones. Not all live in Quebec. Our Inuit, Dene, other indigenous First Peoples also celebrate their cultures. So do Hutterites, Mennonites etc.
> 
> Immigrants from around the world do also. We believe our diversity is our strength. Students of all ethnicities  are now able to learn aboriginal language at school. In a climate of tolerance and respect, diversity flourishes. When after the Paris massacre,
> 
> Toronto Muslim women were attacked, Torontonians took to social media offering to sit beside their "Muslim sisters" on public transit. The bigotry and hatred of the few must never be permitted to to silence the justice and compassion of the many. Je suis Muslim! Je suis Juif---je suis Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist, et al.



:thumbsup1::thumbsup1::thumbsup1:


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 8, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> Most Amish live where their preferred life is more practically accomplished. They are not in the middle of a highly populated area like NYC. The Hasidic Jews try to maintain many customs but radical changes or exemptions really don't have to be made. The Jewish community in many areas has not only assimilated but excelled in the US life going into rigorous and profitable professions.


What makes you think that the Muslim immigrants won't eventually fit in at least as comfortably as the Jewish community or the Sikhs?


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Vancouver, our third largest city, has a sizable Muslim population, from a variety of countries and ethnicities. As far as I am aware, no overtly special accommodations have been made. In some ways, our laws are stricter than America's regarding what 

is acceptable behaviour for all, immigrant or otherwise--particularly regarding what we consider to be hate speech. This applies to all religious/cultural practices. In this country, Donald Trump would be arrested, we certainly would not "accommodate" his

hatemongering. To us, he is a dangerous man whose rhetoric has the potential to incite horrific acts of violence against Mexicans, Muslims, etc among the more unstable persons of his fan base. He certainly has not "assimilated" into the tolerant


majority of Americans who are so deserving of the opportunity to live their lives in peace and harmony, regardless of whether or not they identify as Muslims.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 8, 2015)

Muslims contributing to Australian society, taken from the Facebook page of the Anglican Parish of Gosford (north of Sydney)

*Anglican Parish of Gosford*

_What  a privilege to spend an afternoon with the Brothers from Homeless Run, known as the "White Coats" by the people they help; the homeless, youth, women and children affected by domestic violence, pensioners ... and anyone else needing a helping hand. 

Three years ago Bilal and his wife decided they wanted to help young people, now he and his friend Kamel, with the help of their wives and friends, manage a charity with over 40 volunteers that runs services 7 days per week.   

A recent well publicised incident has not affected their outlook or dedication to their work; this wonderful team of inspiring young men are just getting on with the job of serving the community. 



The short fellow in the middle is the Anglican (= Episcopalian) priest known to all and sundry as Father Rod._


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Bravo! It is so important to balance fearful rhetoric with clear examples of Christ-like behaviour (as an example) illustrated by these young men. I am not a Christian, but since Islam clearly is an issue in this thread, I felt it important to make the 
point I did. A life of service  is not limited to non Muslims. To me, this is the only "assimilation" that matters.


----------



## Debby (Dec 8, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I guess the requirement to assimilate didn't apply when all of our ancestors invaded America slaughtering Native Americans, stealing their land, and dismissing their cultural practices.




I read through the list of obligations of Muslims who emigrate to Australia and it sounded pretty good to me.  More Muslim's in other countries need to do the same thing and that might go a long way toward cooling the jets of all those who fear Muslims.  They did a good job in that year.

This morning or yesterday, PM Trudeau met with the Assembly of First Nations and listening to him talk about how we are going to change and better our interactions with our indigenous peoples made me so proud.  White people did all of the above that you mentioned but finally I hope we are on the right course which should only strengthen Canada, i.e. acknowledging and embracing all our people.


----------



## Debby (Dec 8, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Canada celebrates multiculturalism as opposed to total assimilation. For starters, one third of our population (approx) identify as Francophones. Not all live in Quebec. Our Inuit, Dene, other indigenous First Peoples also celebrate their cultures. So do Hutterites, Mennonites etc.
> 
> Immigrants from around the world do also. We believe our diversity is our strength. Students of all ethnicities  are now able to learn aboriginal language at school. In a climate of tolerance and respect, diversity flourishes. When after the Paris massacre,
> 
> Toronto Muslim women were attacked, Torontonians took to social media offering to sit beside their "Muslim sisters" on public transit. The bigotry and hatred of the few must never be permitted to to silence the justice and compassion of the many. Je suis Muslim! Je suis Juif---je suis Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist, et al.





Love this comment Shalimar!  Totally!  So cool how you've articulated these glorious goals!  After listening to Trudeau this morning as he spoke to the assembly of First Nations and then reading your comment.... well I'm getting all weepy here!


----------



## WhatInThe (Dec 8, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> What makes you think that the Muslim immigrants won't eventually fit in at least as comfortably as the Jewish community or the Sikhs?



I didn't say they wouldn't 'eventually' fit in but right now they don't seem to aspiring or making the effort to assimilate as previous groups of immigrants. With a history of immigration and/or information out there on the US or any country's history & culture is should not take any immigrant group the same amount of time to assimilate as they did 100-200 years ago. They know a lot more going into the country.


----------



## Debby (Dec 8, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> I didn't say they wouldn't 'eventually' fit in but right now they don't seem to aspiring or making the effort to assimilate as previous groups of immigrants. With a history of immigration and/or information out there on the US or any country's history & culture is should not take any immigrant group the same amount of time to assimilate as they did 100-200 years ago. They know a lot more going into the country.




Maybe part of the problem is that they don't feel at all welcome even though they've been allowed in?  It feels safer to keep to their own communities.  With the rhetoric that's been coming from the Republican candidates and particularly Trump, it must feel like there's a lot of good reason to keep separate and try to get by like that I would think.


----------



## WhatInThe (Dec 8, 2015)

Debby said:


> Maybe part of the problem is that they don't feel at all welcome even though they've been allowed in?  It feels safer to keep to their own communities.  With the rhetoric that's been coming from the Republican candidates and particularly Trump, it must feel like there's a lot of good reason to keep separate and try to get by like that I would think.



I understand staying with in their own community, in sometimes that's a measure of success of that ethnic/religious group. I've seen entire high end neighborhoods resided by successful richer ethnic/religious groups. I've also seen smaller neighborhoods eliminate a local drug & blight problem with Islamic leadership. 

But my whole in this day and age regardless of motivation people chose to physically migrate. They choose to go to a different country and culture. It's not unusual to see an unwieldy sense of entitlement from various groups. But they're the ones coming into another's world. Does one let a house guest rearrange the furniture? Who has the primary responsibility for the assimilation process.


----------



## QuickSilver (Dec 8, 2015)

New arrivals have ALWAYS wanted to keep separate in their own communities or neighborhoods.   Living in Chicago it's pretty evident.  We have Chinatown, Greektown, German town..  Little Italy,  and just about every nationality with it's own neighborhood.  Of course they are no longer exclusive, but the names remain.  I think it human nature to want to be with people who are like you.. speak your language.. and practice your religion..  At least for one or two generations.. it takes time to become assimilated.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

I just don't understand the problem with immigrants not assimilating completely. Providing they are law abiding, productive members of society, why shouldn't they congregate primarily with each other? America is a country which prizes individuality, and personal freedom, isn't that applicable here? I am confused.


----------



## QuickSilver (Dec 8, 2015)

Cuz we can't keep an eye on those Muslins that way?


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Ok QS, but what about the invisible peeps who blend right in, who is watching them? Oops, they aren't immigrants, but homegrown? I am beginning to think I  may be incompatable with some of western culture--and that may be a good thing.


----------



## Debby (Dec 8, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> I understand staying with in their own community, in sometimes that's a measure of success of that ethnic/religious group. I've seen entire high end neighborhoods resided by successful richer ethnic/religious groups. I've also seen smaller neighborhoods eliminate a local drug & blight problem with Islamic leadership.
> 
> But my whole in this day and age regardless of motivation people chose to physically migrate. They choose to go to a different country and culture. It's not unusual to see an unwieldy sense of entitlement from various groups. But they're the ones coming into another's world. Does one let a house guest rearrange the furniture? Who has the primary responsibility for the assimilation process.




Maybe because I live out in the country right now (and it is about as ethnic as porridge ) and am out of the loop with what's going on in cities and towns so I don't truly know, but it seems to work in Canada.  Always with exceptions of course, but generally speaking.   

Is it a case of the immigrants responding to a label (multi-cultural vs. melting pot), I don't know.  Maybe some folks are afraid they will lose their personal identity in that 'melting pot' and then many of the 'originals' resenting the reluctance of the newly immigrated.  And here I think we kind of just 'move over' and bump up against one another occasionally.  Maybe Shalimar would have some insights on if this is the way it is from her perspective as she's been involved with way more people than I have in the public domain.

That would be an interesting study wouldn't it?  Finding out how different the attitudes are and all the ramifications thereof, of both sides of the immigrant experience, in the USA and Canada.


----------



## QuickSilver (Dec 8, 2015)

I don't know why it upsets some folks that people newly immigrated would want to be with their own group.   Never could understand the problem.  It takes at least 2 generations for a group to assimilate... that includes language, culture, dress.. etc.      Full assimilation does not occur until the group becomes indistinguishable from the whole.  As you can see, because of religious customs and dress.. that may not be completely possible for devout Muslims.  

I can tell you that the Muslims I know are assimilated...  They are doctors..  there is not one of the women that wears a head scarf.. and they dress western and speak  English  (with an accent)  and live in neighborhoods I can't afford to live in.    Their children will be fully assimilated as they will not even have the Middle Eastern accent.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Debby, allowing for some older individuals whom I suspect would find it difficult adapting to anything new, my experience living in a town with diverse ethnic groups has been very positive. Most are genuinely interested in being accepted as newCanadians. 

Often, they are extremely touched at our willingness to learn about their culture. I think they are relieved that we don't expect them to completely abandon their culture for ours. Usually the only entitlement issues I see are exhibited by a few older men 

who brought their old fashioned views on women with them, and seem surprised when we object to  chauvinist  attitudes. What continues to touch me deeply, is the kindness and loyalty shown by these immigrants toward those Canadians who help 

them in any way. More than once, they have thrown open their homes and their  hearts to us, teaching us their cooking, how to paint our hands with henna, even how to give a proper Turkish massage like the ones given in a hannam. One of them is 

teaching a course to local master weavers on how to weave a prayer rug. I see first hand the joys of sharing without the pressure of melting pot assimilation. It is awesome to sit down for a Salish smoked salmon meal, prepared by me for a group 


 people, Muslim, Sikh, Christian, and pagan, all laughing together, the children playing in the host'sbackyard. I usually play caterer, since my condo is not geared towards kids. So cool to see little Moroccan Jewish boy Chaim letting his Muslim friend try on his yarmulke, and Sikh teen Manjit sew a beautiful embroidered suit as a Xmas gift for her Coptic  Christian friend. 

Next week we are all going to a Bahai household for an intercultural poetry reading. This Bahai family is originally from Scotland. They will be offering some traditional Scottish delicacies.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

By the way QS, a few days ago,  one young man showed me a pic of his favourite Turkish movie star. She looks like a pic you shared with us a while back--green eyes and all! The resemblance is spooky.


----------



## Bee (Dec 8, 2015)

Not about Muslims but about assimilation...when I lived in South Africa, I didn't assimilate as such........it was obvious the Afrikaans were still fighting the Boer War with the English so we didn't feel welcomed by them and so it was easier to stick with either other English immigrants or English speaking South Africans.

When my son and his friends came home on the train from school and the boys from the Afrikaans speaking school got onto the same train they would put the English speaking boys through hell.

At a pigeon club social do I was at one night, my drink was spiked by a club member who's father was in the SS and had escaped to South Africa after that I was very careful who I got into conversation with.

From my own experience I can understand the Muslims not always wanting to assimilate and would rather stick with their own.


----------



## AZ Jim (Dec 8, 2015)

We Americans may not be what some might think we should be but By Gawd I like us.


----------



## Debby (Dec 8, 2015)

Sounds like a great place and a great life you're experiencing Shalimar!  I went to a mall in Calgary back in September when shopping for my daughters 'interview' clothes and it was like a culture shock because there were people from so many different places in the world! I was kind of amazed (what a hick huh?).   Here in rural Nova Scotia it's pretty 'white'.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 8, 2015)

WhatInThe said:


> I didn't say they wouldn't 'eventually' fit in but right now they don't seem to aspiring or making the effort to assimilate as previous groups of immigrants. With a history of immigration and/or information out there on the US or any country's history & culture is should not take any immigrant group the same amount of time to assimilate as they did 100-200 years ago. They know a lot more going into the country.



From my observation it usually takes two generations for complete absorption into the mainstream although individuals may blend in more quickly than that.


----------



## fureverywhere (Dec 8, 2015)

I can perfectly understand why Muslims would create their own communities. It's not because they all want to sit around crowing jihad and making bomb vests together. It's just based on common faith, customs and language. New York has always historically had Little Italy, Chinatown...pockets of immigrants that lived together because they understood each other. Some assimilated and some didn't...and yes some criminal elements came out as well. But the problem comes when prejudice creates labeling a whole group.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Debby, this is a smallish town, nestled between two cities. We have our hick areas also. In one we even had a white supremicist group thingy--long gone I suspect. Inbreeding no doubt. We have everything here from wineries to pulp mills 

within a few miles of each other. Gourmet chef school also. Many white and indigenous people live here, we house the largest Aboriginal tribe in BC, south east Asians as well.  More varieties  of non white immigrants are arriving. It is exciting. It still 

upsets some of the white elderly women with the tight permanents--and equally tight faces, when I wander about in my Sikh outfits--don't really know or care why! So utopia is not at hand. Lol.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 8, 2015)

Our church has a small aged care facility attached and recently there has been quite a turnover as several of the residents have entered full nursing homes or moved away to be closer to family. We had a Christmas party for them last Saturday and there were five new residents. A warm up exercise began by asking everyone to say where we went to primary school and of the five newbies one came from the Bahamas, one from Burma, two from Australia and one from Scotland. Another established resident is from Asia, Singapore I think. Yesterday another Christmas party for the knitting group and I sat next to a lady from southern India. She is Hindu and helps out with the children's playgroup.

The point was made earlier about making people feel welcome. This is extremely important, especially to the younger ones. I talk to a number of younger Muslim women on Facebook and they really appreciate any encouragement.


----------



## fureverywhere (Dec 8, 2015)

It depends on the individual as well. My relatives for the most part still live in small town Pennsylvania. Some of them settled elsewhere and might have grown more tolerant of diversity. But the ones who have spent their whole lives in an area where there is virtually no contact with other ethnic groups. I lived there for a few years. Everyone, no exaggeration was solidly white and Christian. Might that suggest not assimilating as well?


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Warri, I'm certain you are right. Inclusive--builds bonds which pass on to further generations. People who feel they belong are far less likely to suffer from isolation and resentment and all that that can entail. Oh, the power of kindness and respect.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Fur, excellent point. Such lifestyles often lend themselves to a time warp view of life. Difficult to flow with the twenty first century.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 8, 2015)

In the late 1800s we had a whole village from northern Italy arrive in NSW needing a new home. The back story is interesting but for the sake of brevity I'll leave it out for now. The Premier of the day allowed them entry on the condition that they did not all settle in the same place. They ignored this condition and all settled in rural NSW where they founded a town called New Italy, spoke Italian and followed the lifestyle of their old village.

 One generation later the children had all scattered and had taken up jobs all over Australia. Fifty years after the immigrants arrived, New Italy was completely abandoned and there was a reunion of the descendants who wanted to learn more about the history of their grandparents. No-one spoke Italian any more. Integration was complete.
 It happens naturally if people are not harassed about being different.

Here is a link to the back story http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2010/04/08/2867563.htm


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

My, Bee, what a challenge some of those experiences must have been for you and your family.


----------



## QuickSilver (Dec 8, 2015)

If I were plopped down in the middle of a foreign country and didn't speak the language or understand the customs.. I'd certainly want to be in a group of Americans.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 8, 2015)

For your amusement. I came across this piece titled "15 things I learned about Islam and British values as a gay boy living opposite a mosque" and just had to read it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ay-boy-living-opposite-a-mosque-a6763466.html


----------



## fureverywhere (Dec 8, 2015)

Fur, excellent point. Such lifestyles often lend themselves to a time warp view of life. Difficult to flow with the twenty first century. 

Exactly, the town were in was up to oh 1933 in culture.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Fur, nineteen thirty three? I am kind of impressed in a boggled sort of way. I have been to some very isolated places in Canuckistan--but so far nothing like you mention. I am struggling to imagine it. Not Mayberry North I take it?


----------



## Underock1 (Dec 8, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> Canada celebrates multiculturalism as opposed to total assimilation. For starters, one third of our population (approx) identify as Francophones. Not all live in Quebec. Our Inuit, Dene, other indigenous First Peoples also celebrate their cultures. So do Hutterites, Mennonites etc.
> 
> Immigrants from around the world do also. We believe our diversity is our strength. Students of all ethnicities  are now able to learn aboriginal language at school. In a climate of tolerance and respect, diversity flourishes. When after the Paris massacre,
> 
> Toronto Muslim women were attacked, Torontonians took to social media offering to sit beside their "Muslim sisters" on public transit. The bigotry and hatred of the few must never be permitted to to silence the justice and compassion of the many. Je suis Muslim! Je suis Juif---je suis Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist, et al.



What a great idea those Torontonians had! :applause2:


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Thanks Underock, we may be perceived by some  as a slightly bland people, perhaps a little  complacent at times about our beloved country, but sometimes we truly stand up for what we believe is right. I am so proud of those Torontonians  who put 

themselves out there--sends a powerful message. I still choke up whenever I think about it. This is the Canada I believe in. That said, we are still under construction in many areas, and cannot afford to be too self congratulatory.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 8, 2015)

We had the same response after the Martin Place siege. A Twitter campaign, #I'llridewithyou, allowed Muslim women to link up with friendly people on public transport. It was if nothing else, an expression of solidarity.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

That is lovely to hear Warri, sometimes adversity brings out the best in people. On a light note, I get to see how I look in a hijab later today. I have so much hair, the lady who offered to show me how it is done,  teased me it would be like working on 

one of her family. I even get to choose which hijab I like. If she wishes I will wear it  as a gesture of solidarity when we visit members of her family.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 8, 2015)

When we visited Toronto I thought it looked a bit like Sydney in that the architecture is of a similar vintage. I see we have other similarities as well.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

I agree Warri.


----------



## Bee (Dec 8, 2015)

Shalimar said:


> My, Bee, what a challenge some of those experiences must have been for you and your family.



It was a challenge at times Shalimar, from South Africa we transfered to Hong Kong and as I walked into the flat allocated to us, I felt as if a whole weight had fell from my shoulders, but the main thing in Hong Kong was, my children were much happier in the schools there.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Glad things got better for you Bee. It is very hard to watch our children suffer abuse from other kids.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 8, 2015)

Bee, what kind of work was moving you around the world with a young family?

Where else did you live ?


----------



## fureverywhere (Dec 8, 2015)

Fur, nineteen thirty three? I am kind of impressed in a boggled sort of way. I have been to some very isolated places in Canuckistan--but so far nothing like you mention. I am struggling to imagine it. Not Mayberry North I take it? 

Something frightening was that Bloomsburg is considered Big City by people of the surrounding way rural communities. Students used to tell me they went there on the weekends to have something to do. There was a main street, two coffee shops, a quickie mart, and maybe a good ten shops off of the highway. I suppose if you lived on a farm surrounded by cornfields and not much else...yep that was the city.

The staff of the college had their own private joke. Almost every instructor or office had either a poster or other image from the movie "Deliverance". Opie Taylor out on the front porch with that danged banjo.


----------



## Shalimar (Dec 8, 2015)

Wow, twisted, but I like it Fur!


----------



## Manatee (Dec 8, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I guess the requirement to assimilate didn't apply when all of our ancestors invaded America slaughtering Native Americans, stealing their land, and dismissing their cultural practices.



The Indians were unable to control immigration, we could learn a great deal from their experience.  They wound up being the ones who assimilated.  Before the Europeans came they did not have beasts of burden, wheels, nor many of the things they have now.  They did not have an easy time.


----------



## Ameriscot (Dec 8, 2015)

I've had issues with assimiliating in foreign countries.  Even though the UK is an English speaking nation, I had a problem with feeling like a foreigner especially when I spent most of my first 6 months in London.  There were many more cultural differences and language differences that I simply wasn't aware of or prepared for.  I settled in much better in Scotland.  When I finally found Americans online, meeting up for lunches etc, I became truly assimilated as we discussed the differences - what was strange, what we loved, etc.  After a few years I had no need to make friends with anyone simply because they were also American.  But I still have several American friends that live or used to live in Scotland.

Uganda was tougher.  I had never been in a tiny minority before and the centre of attention wherever I went.  The culture was so totally different from anything I knew.  I craved meeting up with the other volunteers, but after a while I felt very comfortable with Ugandans.  I actually enjoyed feeling like a 'celebrity'.

So I can understand wanting to be with 'your own kind', but it wears off and you begin to enjoy all the differences.


----------



## Ameriscot (Dec 8, 2015)

Bee said:


> Not about Muslims but about assimilation...when I lived in South Africa, I didn't assimilate as such........it was obvious the Afrikaans were still fighting the Boer War with the English so we didn't feel welcomed by them and so it was easier to stick with either other English immigrants or English speaking South Africans.
> 
> When my son and his friends came home on the train from school and the boys from the Afrikaans speaking school got onto the same train they would put the English speaking boys through hell.
> 
> ...



I visited South Africa in 2006.  My stepdaugher married an Afrikaner and the wedding was held there.  We noticed when shopping that when the clerks realized we didn't speak Afrikaans, they would suddenly become very friendly.  

I felt fearful in many parts of SA because of the violent crime, the razor wire, armed security guards at homes, carjacking warning signs, etc etc....  I enjoyed the visit but would not want to live there.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 8, 2015)

I've often wondered how I would behave if I were to be transplanted to a foreign country, especially a non English speaking one. 
I know  would seek out my own kind - Aussies, Kiwis, Canadians, Brits etc - just for the sake of having relaxed conversations.

If I was a young parent I would keep my children on a short leash because I would be fearful for them. Here I know what the hazards are but in a foreign culture we would be much more vulnerable to blundering into danger without even realising it.

When I see recent immigrants doing these things I do understand why they do it.


----------



## Bee (Dec 8, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> Bee, what kind of work was moving you around the world with a young family?
> 
> Where else did you live ?



My ex husband worked in the construction industry, after South Africa and Hong Kong, we came back to England.


----------



## Bee (Dec 8, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I visited South Africa in 2006.  _*My stepdaugher married an Afrikaner and the wedding was held there.  We noticed when shopping that when the clerks realized we didn't speak Afrikaans, they would suddenly become very friendly. *_
> 
> I felt fearful in many parts of SA because of the violent crime, the razor wire, armed security guards at homes, carjacking warning signs, etc etc....  I enjoyed the visit but would not want to live there.



The difference is Ameriscot, the Welsh, Scots and Irish were all very welcome by the Afrikaaners but not the English because of the Boer war...........At the time we lived there, when a child was at secondary school and taking exams if they didn't speak or write Afrikaans they failed in _every_ subject no matter how good they were.

Re; your second sentence, you can understand why a weight lifted from my shoulders when I was in Hong Kong, this was 1982 or thereabouts.


----------



## Ameriscot (Dec 9, 2015)

Bee said:


> The difference is Ameriscot, the Welsh, Scots and Irish were all very welcome by the Afrikaaners but not the English because of the Boer war...........At the time we lived there, when a child was at secondary school and taking exams if they didn't speak or write Afrikaans they failed in _every_ subject no matter how good they were.
> 
> Re; your second sentence, you can understand why a weight lifted from my shoulders when I was in Hong Kong, this was 1982 or thereabouts.



Yes I can understand easily why it would be a relief to get to Hong Kong.

As for SA the clerks would first speak to us in Afrikaans and we would just say English please. They would smile and be very friendly. They knew we were tourists so not the people that were racists and abusers.


----------

