# Do any of you pay taxes on SS benefits?



## Marie5656 (Apr 17, 2017)

*I was just reading over the letter I got regarding my SSD.  In the letter it says "You MAY be taxed of you and your spouse make more than $32,000. My husband makes about $28,000.  So, combined with my disability checks, does that mean I will be taxed?  What about next year when he is retired?
Guess I go to the website.
*


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## Buckeye (Apr 17, 2017)

Short answer = yes.


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## Mrs. Robinson (Apr 17, 2017)

Yep. Just doing our taxes today and we were getting a refund of $1,700 until I added in our SS benefits. Now we owe $77.00. That figure will change by the time I`m finished, but I`m at a standstill because there was a huge error on the statement our property management company sent us for our rental property. From what I can tell they sent only a six month statement but called it twelve. Not sure how they did that....


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## mathjak107 (Apr 17, 2017)

yep , we are always taxed on it


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## Marie5656 (Apr 17, 2017)

*So, am I better off having a % taken out every month, or wait until end of the year when we do taxes?*


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## mathjak107 (Apr 17, 2017)

Marie5656 said:


> *I was just reading over the letter I got regarding my SSD.  In the letter it says "You MAY be taxed of you and your spouse make more than $32,000. My husband makes about $28,000.  So, combined with my disability checks, does that mean I will be taxed?  What about next year when he is retired?
> Guess I go to the website.
> *




it is based on magi which is your combined income less certain credits and above the line deductions


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## nvtribefan (Apr 17, 2017)

Oh yeah.


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## dpwspringer (Apr 17, 2017)

The amount of income it takes to trigger taxes on your SS income increases at certain ages. You get a statement like you got each year that tells you how much it is.


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## mathjak107 (Apr 18, 2017)

no , the taxes do not increase by age on ss  . you are confusing it with required minimum distributions


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## dpwspringer (Apr 18, 2017)

mathjak107 said:


> no , the taxes do not increase by age on ss  . you are confusing it with required minimum distributions


I did not say the taxes increase by age on SS.


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## mathjak107 (Apr 18, 2017)

dpwspringer said:


> The amount of income it takes to trigger taxes on your SS income increases at certain ages. You get a statement like you got each year that tells you how much it is.




well that is kind of how this reads


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## Lara (Apr 18, 2017)

Hold on everybody. Disability income is not taxable income unless you receive SSDI (not SSI).

"For the majority of people, Social Security Disability benefits are not taxable. This is true for people who have income in addition to disability benefits as well as those who do not. (Most of the one-third of disability recipients who do pay taxes on benefits receive SSDI benefits, not SSI."


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## mathjak107 (Apr 18, 2017)

still an issue:

ssi is not taxable ,
ssdi is  calculated in to the  magi  testing for the total income to see if the regular ss check of the spouse  is taxed . if the total of the regular ss and disability are over the limit the regular ss is taxed .



*Social Security Disability Income (SSDI) versus Supplemental Security Income (SSI). *SSDI is paid from the Social Security Trust Fund to totally disabled individuals who have worked long enough and paid Social Security taxes. Dependent children may also receive SSDI if a parent receives it. On the other hand, SSI is not a Social Security benefit; it is a supplemental income program designed to help the elderly, the blind, or people with disabilities who have little or no income.  Like other sources of Social Security income, SSDI is included in MAGI-based income for tax filers.

Regarding your Social Security benefits taxable question, all Social Security benefits are taxed in the same way. This is true whether they're retirement, survivors, or disability benefits.
Regarding SSDI taxable income concerns, none of your Social Security disability income (SSDI) is taxable if half of your SSDI plus all your other income is less than:


$25,000 if you filed as single, head of household, or married filing separately, and you and your spouse lived apart all year
$32,000 if you’re married filing jointly
$0 if you’re married filing separately, and you and your spouse lived together at all during the year
Up to 50% of your SSDI is taxable if your income is more than those amounts. Also, up to 85% of your SSDI is taxable if half of your SSDI plus all your other income is more than:


$34,000 if you filed as single, head of household, or married filing separately, and you and your spouse lived apart all year
$44,000 if you’re married filing jointly
$0 if you’re married filing separately, and you and your spouse lived together at all during the year


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## Marie5656 (Apr 18, 2017)

*Now I am just more confused.  I guess I will call my accountant in a week or so.  He always takes a week vacation at end of tax season.  Thanks for your input.*


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## Knight (Apr 18, 2017)

Yes on taxed 
Soc. Sec. With no deductions and a significant income we do a nice job of pumping money into the economy via the federal gov. to spend on people that are not as fortunate as we are.


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## Wintermint (Apr 18, 2017)

Interesting differences between the USA and the UK I see here. We have a universal 'state pension' that everyone gets regardless of other income. It kicks in at 65 (going up soon I think). This is however taxed as part of any other income (e.g. work pension, investments etc). It is only around $200 a week but it can make a big difference to those who have not saved or made private arrangements. 

I have found that my personal tax has become a lot more complicated since I retired as I have several income streams. When I was working our automatic PAYE (pay as you earn) system meant I didn't have any forms to fill on for thirty years or more! I now realise what a luxury that was!


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## dpwspringer (Apr 18, 2017)

mathjak107 said:


> well that is kind of how this reads


I don't see how you are getting that.


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## Butterfly (Apr 18, 2017)

mathjak107 said:


> well that is kind of how this reads



I agree, that's the way this reads.


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## Butterfly (Apr 18, 2017)

mathjak107 said:


> still an issue:
> 
> ssi is not taxable ,
> ssdi is  calculated in to the  magi  testing for the total income to see if the regular ss check of the spouse  is taxed . if the total of the regular ss and disability are over the limit the regular ss is taxed .
> ...



This is correct according to my accountant.


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## OAG (Apr 18, 2017)

Oh yes Single and pay taxes on 85% of SS @ a 25% Rate.


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## mathjak107 (Apr 19, 2017)

actually because getting ss taxed involves two moving targets a retiree can actually take an extra 1K out of an ira , jump brackets and end up seeing a 46% marginal effective tax on that 1k .

[FONT=Lato, sans-serif]michael kitces looked in to this effect.

[/FONT]https://www.kitces.com/blog/the-taxation-of-social-security-benefits-as-a-marginal-tax-rate-increase/[FONT=Lato, sans-serif]


[/FONT]


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## dpwspringer (Apr 19, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> I agree, that's the way this reads.


I have re-read my post several times and I am still at a loss as to how it could be interpreted as saying taxes increase by age on SS. Here is what I said: 

"The amount of income it takes to trigger taxes on your SS income increases at certain ages. You get a statement like you got each year that tells you how much it is."

What I said increases at certain ages is the amount of income it takes to trigger taxes on your SS income. And trigger means to cause SS income to be taxed. Below the trigger amount you don't get taxed on your SS income. Somehow I think what I said was mentally parsed to this:

"... taxes on your SS income increases at certain ages. You get a statement like you got each year that tells you how much it is."

LOL


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## mathjak107 (Apr 19, 2017)

dpwspringer said:


> I have re-read my post several times and I am still at a loss as to how it could be interpreted as saying taxes increase by age on SS. Here is what I said:
> 
> "The amount of income it takes to trigger taxes on your SS income increases at certain ages.
> 
> LOL



this ......   that is why now two of us commented on the same thing . what you may be thinking may be different than this imply's .


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## dpwspringer (Apr 19, 2017)

mathjak107 said:


> this ......   that is why now two of us commented on the same thing . what you may be thinking may be different than this imply's .


Well somebody has reading comprehension problems because that does not say what you keep claiming it says. It is a little unsettling for someone to keep correcting me for saying something I did not say. And I don't care how many people agree with you, because it still does not say that.


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## mathjak107 (Apr 19, 2017)

if you say so!


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 22, 2017)

14% of my SS benefit was taxed.


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## mathjak107 (Apr 22, 2017)

huh ?  ss is taxed on only 3 levels . zero ,  or you are taxed on 50% of the amount or 85% of the amount .  the tax rate is different than the amount  of dollars  of your ss gets taxed on .  taxed on and taxed at are two different things .


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## Knight (Apr 23, 2017)

Quote Originally Posted by dpwspringer 
 I have re-read my post several times and I am still at a loss as to how it could be interpreted as saying taxes increase by age on SS. Here is what I said: 
 "The amount of income it takes to trigger taxes on your SS income increases at certain ages. 
 LOL

 That makes sense if it is read as amount of income. Triggering that increase as shown in a variety of charts and info pieces deals with certain ages. 

 The easiest way for me to explain why I agree. Those with accounts subject to MRD withdrawls show an increase at certain ages.
 Example using a short section of an  account with $115,000.00 subject to MRD. It begins at age 75 and increases with age as you pointed out. 
 Projected Minimum Required Distributions 
 Year Your
 Attained Age Estimated
 MRD Amount Estimated
 Account Balance 
 2018 75 $5,036.82 $115,496.69 
 2019 76 $5,249.85 $115,444.19 
 2020 77 $5,445.48 $115,193.70 
 2021 78 $5,674.57 $114,702.85 
 2022 79 $5,882.20 $113,982.28 
 2023 80 $6,095.31 $113,016.17 
 2024 81 $6,313.75 $111,788.15 
 2025 82 $6,537.32 $110,281.30 
 2026 83 $6,765.72 $108,478.24 
 2027 84 $6,998.60 $106,361.16 
 2028 85 $7,186.56 $103,960.85 
 2029 86 $7,373.11 $101,265.98 
 2030 87 $7,557.16 $98,265.79 
 2031 88 $7,737.46 $94,950.29 
 2032 89 $7,912.52 $91,310.53 
 2033 90 $8,009.70 $87,409.80 
 2034 91 $8,093.50 $83,249.74 
 2035 92 $8,161.74 $78,834.24 
 2036 93 $8,211.90 $74,169.88 
 2037 94 $8,150.54 $69,356.98 
 2038 95 $8,064.77 $64,413.27 
 2039 96 $7,952.26 $59,359.61 

 Of course depletion is minimized by return percent I input 4 1/2 % 

 So much to understand in America about the impact of taxes for retirees and potential retirees. Where you live can impact what you pay in taxes. Finding out what impacts a person should be another  priority in planning


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## mathjak107 (Apr 24, 2017)

The taxing of rmd's is really a different topic than the op' s question


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## Knight (Apr 24, 2017)

mathjak107 said:


> The taxing of rmd's is really a different topic than the op' s question



If this was only about MRD's I'd agree. But my example was about explaining why I believe this post to be true.

Probably best to use the direct quote 


dpwspringer said:


> The amount of income it takes to trigger taxes on your SS income increases at certain ages. You get a statement like you got each year that tells you how much it is.



Understanding how that can be possible I used MRD as an example. I'll try to make what my example and agreement with dpwspringer was about.
At 54 I took early retirement. We lived on my pension, savings & cash from the tax free sale of our 5 bedroom home on 12 acres of property. 
At 59 1/2 I could have accessed my 401k but found out the agreement between my company & the 401k account management company was that in 15 years the 401k would have to be completely paid out. That didn't work for our plans so the 401k account was converted to self directed & traditional IRA's to build via reinvesting. 
At 59 1/2 my wife 401k was converted to the same self directed & traditional IRA's.
At 62 I took the option of receiving Soc. Sec.  The income amount didn't trigger taxes on that Soc. Sec. 
At 62 my wife took her Soc. Sec. Her Soc. Sec. income plus pensions  as in what dpwspringer posted began at the lower end of the tax schedule. 
At 70 1/2 my MRD kicked in and so did the increase in the amount of taxes paid on Soc. Sec. income
At 70 1/2 my wife's MRD kicked in and that sealed our fate in the top end of our taxed Soc. Sec. 

So maybe the time line of our income will clarify the post I think dpwspringer's sentence makes sense to me. 
Quote 
"The amount of income it takes to trigger taxes on your SS income increases at certain ages."
Or depending on circumstances some people don't pay on their Soc. Sec. income. 



At times I think it is unfair to people to be taxed on their Soc. Sec. Then I think about the unfortunate people that are helped by the taxes we pay and am glad we are able to.


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## Butterfly (Apr 24, 2017)

mathjak107 said:


> The taxing of rmd's is really a different topic than the op' s question



For most of us, though, the two are inextricably intertwined, because the taking of an RMD affects taxable income, which in turn affects whether or not a portion of your SS will be taxed.


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## mathjak107 (Apr 24, 2017)

That is true but the op was not asking about the effects rmds might have . He was simply asking if you get taxed above a certain income and what percentage of ss gets taxed .

That has nothing to do with rmd's or even tax brackets


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## Knight (Apr 24, 2017)

mathjak107 said:


> That is true but the op was not asking about the effects rmds might have . He was simply asking if you get taxed above a certain income and what percentage of ss gets taxed .
> 
> That has nothing to do with rmd's or even tax brackets


 To limit a thread to a yes or no reply is not what forums are about, or at least my interpretation is for posters to share their experiences and input something beyond a yes or no answer. 



The question was 
Quote 
"My husband makes about $28,000. So, combined with my disability checks, does that mean I will be taxed? What about next year when he is retired?"

I didn't read the op's question the same way you did. I read the 1st question  as husbands present income combined with her disability checks. Nothing about "if you get taxed above a certain income and what percentage of ss gets taxed."

The 2nd. question concerned the future when her husband is retired. As posters we have no way of knowing what her husband will receive. There was nothing in her post about percentage ss will be taxed. 

In general terms explaining that a MRD could impact the amount they might lose as income over time via increased tax on Soc. Sec. payments could help.


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## Marie5656 (Apr 24, 2017)

*As the OP here, I have read every response and am taking all answers into consideration. I feel if the answers do not benefit me, right now, maybe someone  else can benefit   .  My accountant is on his post tax season vacation, so I plan to call him after the first of the month when I know he will be back.
*


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## mathjak107 (Apr 25, 2017)

It is very simple. The reason you got the letter is because at about 32k magi 1/2 your social security gets added back in with all your other taxable income and the total is taxed.

At about 45k magi ,85% of your social security gets taxed in with all your other income.

What makes up all your other income can be many things. Earned income, rmd's ,annuity income , interest , etc all contribute to making up the income that either 50% or 85% of your social security gets added to as well as is part of that magi that determines which of the 3 levels your ss may be taxed on.

You deal with 2 moving targets with ss as total magi income increasing gets more ss taxed which increases your tax rate


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## HarryH (May 12, 2017)

New to the board and late to the discussion. I have a pension and S.S. (wife and I). My pension has withholding, so I am always curious as to refunds.
I use this on-line calculator http://www.foxfinancial.biz/resource-center/tax/social-security-taxes to determine estimated portion of S.S. to be taxable and use this on-line calculator http://www.dinkytown.net/java/Tax1040.html to estimate total taxes, etc. As my income does not vary much across the calendar year, those two have been reliable for estimation purposes only. I do not use those to do my taxes but provide a preview of 2017 for 2018 filing season. Generally speaking, my tax refund is usually a few dollars more.


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