# The 1919 Black Sox Scandal



## FastTrax (Dec 10, 2020)

www.mlb.com/whitesox

www.pbs.org/newshour/show/100-years-since-black-sox-world-series-new-details-challenge-long-held-story

www.sabr.org/journal/article/the-black-sox-scandal/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_White_Sox

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoeless_Joe_Jackson


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## Tish (Dec 10, 2020)

OMG, I had no idea about this, thank you for sharing it FastTrax , it's fascinating.


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## oldman (Dec 11, 2020)

I felt bad for Joe Jackson. He may have been the only innocent player on the team, but was also kicked out.

If you have ever watched the movie “Field of Dreams,” it kind of reflects how it all came about. It’s an excellent movie for baseball fans.


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## Tish (Dec 11, 2020)

oldman said:


> I felt bad for Joe Jackson. He may have been the only innocent player on the team, but was also kicked out.
> 
> If you have ever watched the movie “Field of Dreams,” it kind of reflects how it all came about. It’s an excellent movie for baseball fans.


I will definitely get that movie and check it out.


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## Lewkat (Dec 11, 2020)

My father, who was an avid Yankees fan, was 15 years old when this happened.  He told me all about it when I was a youngster and we were at a game at the stadium with Chicago visiting.   At first, it didn't sink in as to what all the hoopla must have been about, but when he apprised me of all the rules of the game and how felonious it was to throw a game for money, I was stunned that this could happen.  Now, through the years with the Pete Rose case and others since and no doubt before his, along with the continued practices of drugging, it has spoiled my love of  a once thoroughly enjoyable game.  Sad that so many see fit to spoil the fun.  Lord knows about all the other professional sports as well.


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## MarkinPhx (Dec 11, 2020)

Eight Men Out is another good movie to watch about that team.


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## Damaged Goods (Dec 12, 2020)

"Say it ain't so, Joe," said the tearful kid to his hero Joe Jackson.


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## oldiebutgoody (Feb 8, 2021)

*Not guilty!*

Joe Jackson and all others. Not one was ever convicted in a court of law or forced to pay taxes on any illegal monies. Over the years revisionist historians have said it was all blown out of proportion due to anti Semitic hatred at that time and Arnold Rothstein getting targeted by other gangsters.  No actual legal proof was ever made in any court to "prove" that the players took a fix.  However, the historical record does have concrete proof Commissioner Landis was a hardcore racist as he kept MLB segregated and he tolerated anti Semitic players during the 1930s. 

Jackson belongs in the Hall of Fame.


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## FastTrax (Feb 8, 2021)

Tish said:


> OMG, I had no idea about this, thank you for sharing it FastTrax , it's fascinating.


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## jerry old (Feb 8, 2021)

Yea, they got a raw deal, but they took the money, scant though it was.
There still shaving points in basketball.

"Say it ain't so Joe, say it ain't so."


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## oldiebutgoody (Feb 8, 2021)

jerry old said:


> There still shaving points in basketball.





CCNY's famous basketball team got caught up in a terrible scandal. In 1950 they won the NCAA and the NIT in the same year - an incredible accomplishment that has never been duplicated. But in 1951 the scandal broke out and the team never recovered from it.  Nat Holman was an outstanding coach, Floyd Layne and others were among the greatest players the game ever saw.  But the players admitted to guilt, were sanctioned for their crime,  and the team was never the same.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCNY_point_shaving_scandal


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## fmdog44 (Feb 8, 2021)

Today we have the Houston Astros.


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## jerry old (Feb 8, 2021)

Regarding punishment, the Southern Methodist University received the death penalty from     the NCAA
They disappeared from the football scene fort thirty years


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## oldiebutgoody (Feb 8, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Today we have the Houston Astros.





We also have the New England CHEATriots, Bill BeliCHEAT, Deflategate, and  Spygate. 

A couple of years ago I heard the tail end of a conversation between a father and his little kid who was going to play little league football.  The dad said ''we practice good sportsmanship at all time under all circumstances".  The kid asked "why?" And the dad replied "because we don't cheat like the New England Patriots".


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## oldiebutgoody (Feb 11, 2021)

Even though none of the Black Sox were ever convicted in a court of law, they remain banned from MLB to this day.  Contrast this with the Collusion Scandals especially from 1985-88:

Major League Baseball collusion - Wikipedia



As player Rep  Marvin Miller pointed out, the owners effectively collaborated with each other to fix the World Series for all those years.  Yet, the owners have NOT been banned from the game.  Consider:


''At that time, then-commissioner Fay Vincent told the owners:[11]



> The single biggest reality you guys have to face up to is collusion. You stole $280 million from the players, and the players are unified to a man around that issue, because you got caught and many of you are still involved.


Miller largely agreed with Vincent's sentiments, saying Ueberroth and the owners' behavior was "tantamount to fixing, not just games, but entire pennant races, including all post-season series."[12]



*Even the baseball commissioner agreed that a crime had been committed.*  No one ever proved the Black Sox fixed the World Series.  Yet, it has been conclusively proven that these owners did fix the World Series for several years.  The players have been permanently banned.  The owners have not.  This is the biggest and most scandalous double standard in sports history.


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## oldiebutgoody (Mar 16, 2021)

Shoeless Joe Jackson ad:


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## Dd114 (Mar 16, 2021)

This is so cool.  I’m sorting sports cards today.  I run a program that gives cards to underprivileged children and those who suffer from anxiety/depression.
Do you know of anyone who may want to donate or sell any sports cards?


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## oldiebutgoody (Mar 16, 2021)

despite his reputation as a barefooted hillbilly wearing tattered  dungarees, Shoeless Joe was quite a dapper  dresser:











well after his playing days were over, he operated a business and conducted himself with dignity and professionalism for the rest of his life:




















Joe Jackson for the Hall of Fame!


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## oldiebutgoody (Mar 16, 2021)

Dd114 said:


> This is so cool.  I’m sorting sports cards today.  I run a program that gives cards to underprivileged children and those who suffer from anxiety/depression.
> Do you know of anyone who may want to donate or sell any sports cards?





We recently had a Twin Cities  TV spot on the Facebook baseball card community:

Baseball Cards - Home | Facebook



A church had many cards which used this resource to sell cards and give scholarships for impoverished high school kids. Perhaps they may be able to help.


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## Lewkat (Mar 16, 2021)

Dd114 said:


> This is so cool.  I’m sorting sports cards today.  I run a program that gives cards to underprivileged children and those who suffer from anxiety/depression.
> Do you know of anyone who may want to donate or sell any sports cards?


Welcome to the forum.  I donated all my cards, but I'll ask around.  This is such a terrific idea.


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## SetWave (Mar 16, 2021)




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## Lewkat (Mar 16, 2021)

Dd114 said:


> This is so cool.  I’m sorting sports cards today.  I run a program that gives cards to underprivileged children and those who suffer from anxiety/depression.
> Do you know of anyone who may want to donate or sell any sports cards?


deleted.


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## oldiebutgoody (Mar 16, 2021)

Judge Landis banned the Black Sox on the grounds that they threw the World Series.  That through his actions he alleged to maintain the integrity of the sport.  However, it is well known that he balked at Bill Veeck's purchase of the Phillies because he wanted to bring black players into MLB:


Baseball color line - Wikipedia


Because of this Landis fixed the World Series from 1942 until his death two years later when he was put into the Hall of Fame.  Instead of that honor, he belongs in the Hall of Shame.


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## oldiebutgoody (Mar 16, 2021)

just one more photo if you please ~  a very dapper Joe Jackson and his lovely wife Kate:


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## oldiebutgoody (Mar 18, 2021)

Should Joe Jackson be in the Hall of Fame:


The Virtual Hall of Fame Election Ballot (blackbetsy.com)


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## 911 (Mar 20, 2021)

I think “Shoeless” Jackson got a raw deal. He should be in the HOF.


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