# reading, 'riting and 'rithmetic for dummies.



## Davey Jones (Dec 4, 2013)

Seems like we're,STILL, becoming a nation of future idiots with these latest grades.
Teachers demands,teachers unions, state and city school boards are the reasons in my opinion.
I have a 15 year old granddaughter thats failing in math,what does the schools do?
Stick her in front of a computer after school hours and tell her to 
"Watch,read and Learn".

*U.S. students fail to crack top 20 in math, reading or science.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/57215739-68/average-students-education-shanghai.html.csp

*


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## Diwundrin (Dec 4, 2013)

We're in an education frenzy here too.  As usual we've followed the US trends and our latest figures on literacy and maths are depressing to say the least.   Same problems, nobody can handle being 2nd, teachers protest about students being tested because it shows that some are crap at teaching and students protest about being tested because someone might find out they're not really all Einstein as they've been led to believe.

PC garbage and attitudes strike again.  ... and people are finding it hard to understand why Asia is breathing down our necks?  They don't muck about with self esteem, they just fasttrack the smart ones and cut their losses with the rest.  Better to have a small group of smart 'elite' people leading the technology, research, innovation, etc into the future than a whole nation of the equally dumb.   

But education is Warri's world, I'm sure she'll have a suitably PC explanation to prove I'm a dinosaur.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 4, 2013)

I think the intro to the movie _Idiocracy_ hits it right on the nail ...


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## Diwundrin (Dec 4, 2013)

It hasn't been proved that intelligence is inherited, but unfortunately lifestyles and character traits seem to be.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 4, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> It hasn't been proved that intelligence is inherited, but unfortunately lifestyles and character traits seem to be.



Oh, you're _such_ a logophile! 

Random conversation:

Q: How do you have sex with a word?
A: Oh, usually a Sharpie and an electric pencil-sharpener ...


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## Diwundrin (Dec 4, 2013)

layful:


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## That Guy (Dec 4, 2013)

F u cn rd ths u cn gt a gd jb.


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## GDAD (Dec 4, 2013)

co  se I cn rd tht bt im rtyd!


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## Judi.D (Dec 4, 2013)

DJ I understand your frustration. If I child is struggling in math, putting them on a computer tutorial program is probably the least effective way of getting them help. However, it is probably all your district can afford. If you can afford it, finding a good private tutor would probably be better.  

I am a retired school teacher. Education will not improve in this country until it is made a top priority like it is in those successful Asian countries.


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## Warrigal (Dec 4, 2013)

Diwundrin said:


> PC garbage and attitudes strike again.  ... and people are finding it hard to understand why Asia is breathing down our necks?  They don't muck about with self esteem, they just fasttrack the smart ones and cut their losses with the rest.  Better to have a small group of smart 'elite' people leading the technology, research, innovation, etc into the future than a whole nation of the equally dumb.
> 
> But education is Warri's world, I'm sure she'll have a suitably PC explanation to prove I'm a dinosaur.



I've been out of schools for 15 years now but I would observe that fast tracking the elite and cutting losses with the rest has been NSW policy for some time now thanks to our system of well resourced (due to government subsidies) of expensive private schools and selective public schools. Perhaps if only those students were tested our results internationally would be a lot better. Is that a PC reply or what?

Public examinations like the NSW School Certificate have been eliminated as  cost cutting measures, not because of teacher or parental disapproval and have been replaced by biannual snapshot tests that actually test very little. How much maths can you actually test with 30 multiple choice questions? Yet the results are taken ever so seriously when comparing outcomes between schools.

Finally, if I was to point the finger at a problem with failing to learn, I'd blame the overloaded curriculum. Rather than teach concepts thoroughly until they are mastered, there is constant pressure to move onto the next topic because time has run out for whatever it was that the class has just spent five lessons on. It takes a very stubborn and self confident teacher to say "Bugger that, we're not moving on until the whole class has mastered (say) directed numbers".


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## Diwundrin (Dec 4, 2013)

> Finally, if I was to point the finger at a problem with failing to  learn, I'd blame the overloaded curriculum. Rather than teach concepts  thoroughly until they are mastered, there is constant pressure to move  onto the next topic because time has run out for whatever it was that  the class has just spent five lessons on. It takes a very stubborn and  self confident teacher to say "Bugger that, we're not moving on until  the whole class has mastered (say) directed numbers".



Have to agree on that one, too much time given to esoteric philosophical, humanitarian and enviromental concepts brainwashing and not enough to the basics.  They need to be able to read to be able to study those 'higher' callings at a later date when their minds are capable of looking at them clearly.  
Who wants to employ a kid who can stand and lecture the boss on his environmental obligations and recite the Al Gore catechism of drivel and spin but can't string an off the cuff sentence together, or work out the change from the lunch money?



> I've been out of schools for 15 years now but I would observe that fast  tracking the elite and cutting losses with the rest has been NSW policy  for some time now thanks to our system of well resourced (due to  government subsidies) of expensive private schools and selective public  schools. Perhaps if only those students were tested our results  internationally would be a lot better. Is that a PC reply or what?




Those schools are for the moneyed elite, not the intelligent elite.  That's why we have such dingbats in high office.  They all network out of the 'old boy' private school system where brains are not a real consideration for gaining diplomas.

I have a cousin who's sons were are all prebooked into Newington at birth and they are as silly as loose wheels.  But they'll all do well because they're growing up with the right 'contacts.'  Those are the people who will be in charge of dumbing the rest of us down.

I hesitate to hope that it will ever change as those are the schools that the politicians spring from and they're hardly likely to sink their own are they?


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## Warrigal (Dec 4, 2013)

> Have to agree on that one, too much time given to esoteric philosophical, humanitarian and enviromental concepts brainwashing and not enough to the basics.  They need to be able to read to be able to study those 'higher' callings at a later date when their minds are capable of looking at them clearly.
> Who wants to employ a kid who can stand and lecture the boss on his environmental obligations and recite the Al Gore catechism of drivel and spin but can't string an off the cuff sentence together, or work out the change from the lunch money?


I was talking about the overloaded maths curriculum but your point is valid in that there are less hours devoted to teaching it than when I was at school. We had 8X40 minutes of maths per week (Maths I and Maths II together) but for a long time now it has been reduced a mere 200 hours per week. We never lost a single lesson to an excursion or school camp either. The only non teaching days were school and public holidays and the swimming and sports carnivals. No fire drills either.


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## Warrigal (Dec 4, 2013)

> Those schools are for the moneyed elite, not the intelligent elite.  That's why we have such dingbats in high office.  They all network out of the 'old boy' private school system where brains are not a real consideration for gaining diplomas.
> 
> I have a cousin whose sons were are all prebooked into Newington at birth and they are as silly as loose wheels.  But they'll all do well because they're growing up with the right 'contacts.'  Those are the people who will be in charge of dumbing the rest of us down.
> 
> I hesitate to hope that it will ever change as those are the schools that the politicians spring from and they're hardly likely to sink their own are they?


Newington is not known for its high academic achievements and neither is The Kings School but schools like these do offer scholarships to bright boys (I'm not sure whether the same thing happens in the elite girls' schools) to get a few names in the published HSC top results. It's a marketing ploy and a bit of a con.

The selective public schools now are culturally Asian and many Anglo Aussie kids are deciding to stick with the local public schools where they feel more at home. Education should be about more than pressure cooking kids to achieve high test results. There are massive flaws in the traditional Asian model of schooling not the least of which is the suppression of initiative in favour of unquestioning obedience. This has ramifications for the kind of society/community we want to create and the type of employer/employee regime we are content to accept.


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## Diwundrin (Dec 4, 2013)

I doubt more time on maths would have helped me much anyway but with most it would.  I have near zero knowledge of what teaching entails these days, I only judge by what seems to be uppermost in kids conversations about it and the environment holds far too much prominence.

Why is it necessary to fill their heads with something they can do nothing about?  Sure it may be to guide their future behaviour in regard to not layering the joint with empty Maccas boxes but other than that they'll need to be *scientists* to solve anything, and they aren't being taught to be scientists! They're being taught to be '*activists*'!  

Those dingbats only need to be able to spell STOP, take their guidance from whoever is rostering the renta-crowd of the day and derive their income from the dole office.
They don't need education, they only value 'self esteem'.  Anyone more successful than them can only have gotten that way by evil means and must be ripped down to their 'fair and equal' level.  Sounds a great plan to base a Nation's future upon 'eh'?

What idiots are formulating the curriculum these days?  Are they idiots? or is dumbing down the real agenda?  Do we have the wrong type of elitists running the joint?  It isn't only political, they come from all sides of politics, the erstwhile 'Pollyannas'. The carpetbaggers in evangelist garb?

Religion is failing in it's role of mindnumbing and controlling the populace so they're replacing it with PCness. And we're falling for it!   Spare us!


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## Diwundrin (Dec 4, 2013)

Warrigal said:


> Newington is not known for its high academic achievements and neither is The Kings School but schools like these do offer scholarships to bright boys (I'm not sure whether the same thing happens in the elite girls' schools) to get a few names in the published HSC top results. It's a marketing ploy and a bit of a con.
> 
> The selective public schools now are culturally Asian and many Anglo Aussie kids are deciding to stick with the local public schools where they feel more at home. Education should be about more than pressure cooking kids to achieve high test results. There are massive flaws in the traditional Asian model of schooling not the least of which is the suppression of initiative in favour of unquestioning obedience. This has ramifications for the kind of society/community we want to create and the type of employer/employee regime we are content to accept.



Newington is where their father went, he's in the high-roller real estate game and his 'circle' are all wheeler dealer types in various businesses with their own little network going for them. 
 Those types don't need to excel in academia, just in flim flam, and Newington is good at that apparently.

You're right about the pressure-cooker Asian school scene, Japan's I'm more familiar with than China's but expect it's even worse.  However those who get their higher education here are just blowing our kids out of the water with the combination of Asian expectation and dedication to education plus the flexibility of curriculum to allow them to innovate and learn laterally.  

The kids may all seem to have equal opportunity but ours have come through a lax early education system and lack that respect and dedication to learning that was instilled into Asian youngsters in their homeland or at least in their homelife.  

I know it was drummed into me that my education was the most vital thing I had to think about as a child, and the only real job I had to succeed at as all other jobs and my entire future depended on it. 
 Are kids drilled with that mindset at home these days?  Don't think so. They're told that 'being yourself' and 'doing your own thing' is esteem building.  WTF?

It seems to be making all the difference to overall results.  It will be interesting to see how the future Asian elite run the show won't it?


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## Davey Jones (Dec 5, 2013)

re:They're told that 'being yourself' and 'doing your own thing' is esteem building.  WTF?


And you wonder why some of these high school gals have babies.


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## SifuPhil (Dec 5, 2013)

Davey Jones said:


> ... And you wonder why some of these high school gals have babies.



I think _they_ wonder, too - too busy texting in Biology class. 

But yeah, they feel good about themselves.


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## That Guy (Dec 5, 2013)

"Kid can't read at seventeen.  The words he knows are all obscene.  But it's alright.  I will get by. I will survive."  -- Grateful Dead


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