# Many Healthcare Workers Refusing Vaccine



## win231 (Feb 7, 2021)

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/health-care-workers-covid-19-vaccine-hesitancy-104500731.html


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## Don M. (Feb 7, 2021)

I suspect that some health care workers are hesitant because they have seen, first hand, the side effects of other vaccines and drugs....which can sometimes be worse than the original illness.  It will probably be years before there is any real data to show the long term effectiveness...OR risks...associated with getting these CV vaccines.  

This is truly a "damned if you do...damned if you don't" situation.


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## Jeni (Feb 7, 2021)

I read an article recently that a major grocery retailer  is offered a $100 bonus to those workers willing to get one of the vaccines ..... 

I imagine that many more companies may follow .............. this seems a bit hasty since they will turn around and try to promote to customers some sense of safety even though there is no proof that the vaccines will stop the chance of workers spreading it to others

Seems to me that seems low reward ........ for possibly having long term issues or risking reactions for.


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## Aunt Marg (Feb 7, 2021)

Jeni said:


> *I read an article recently that a major grocery retailer  is offered a $100 bonus to those workers willing to get one of the vaccines* .....
> 
> I imagine that many more companies may follow .............. this seems a bit hasty since they will turn around and try to promote to customers some sense of safety even though there is no proof that the vaccines will stop the chance of workers spreading it to others
> 
> Seems to me that seems low reward ........ for possibly having long term issues or risking reactions for.


There isn't enough money in this world to sway me doing something I'm not comfortable doing, and I'm hoping there are a lot more who are just like me.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 7, 2021)

Aunt Marg said:


> There isn't enough money in this world to sway me doing something I'm not comfortable doing, and I'm hoping there are a lot more who are just like me.


I'm right there with you!


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## chic (Feb 8, 2021)

If they offered me a billion dollars, I'd take it because I could buy my own hospital to care for me if I am sickened by it. But one billion is my price and I'm very firm about that.


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## old medic (Feb 8, 2021)

Among my co-workers and hospital staff I know, 3 out of 4 are refusing it.


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## IrisSenior (Feb 8, 2021)

Just my opinion but those that don't get the vaccine won't be able to go anywhere without proof that they had the shot. Travel by air, train, bus, etc. and maybe some stores will refuse admittance. I know it is up to each individual to decide but just saying that I am sure there will be consequences whether you get a vaccine or not. Only time will tell.


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## jamesrush308 (Feb 8, 2021)

I will not be getting anything until I know it's safe! I have recovered from Covid 19 my doctors have pushed the vaccine like they are a damn commercial for it..I almost went along with it just so they'd shut up! But that is one appointment I will not be showing up for..

They are targeting us older folks first with a brand new experimental vaccine that has not been proven to do anything beneficial and nobody thinks anything of it..Especially in this political climate! And the CDC removed immunity from infection from their page about herd immunity, it Only says vaccines now.. 
 That is very peculiar.

This world is a crazy and I am afraid of what is next..Many great folks our age are no longer here and it is all for a politicized virus and money hungry vaccine companies!!! I I took the risk once already and I will still not inject that.. Maybe once a reputable company comes out with one using the usual vaccines..And of course has been properly tested!


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## Mike (Feb 8, 2021)

I suppose it depends on who is making it and the
transparency of their trials, plus the reputation of
that company.

We have had positive reports all the time during
the laboratory testing, then during the real time
trials on humans, so we have had very few negative
reports or dire consequences from the roll out of it.

We were even told about the possibility of side effects,
yet still many people refuse to have it.

Mike.


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## Lewkat (Feb 8, 2021)

I had COVID-19 last spring and have been ok ever since.  I also took the 2 doses of Pfizer vaccine and had a few dicey days of being ill after each.  Am fine now.  Israel has had in place a testing program for the effectiveness of Pfizer and after the 2 doses, took different age groups, exposed them up front and personal to those with COVID and not one vaccinated person has become ill.   They are giving a 100% effective thumbs up to this particular vaccine, and now I am glad I did opt to get it.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 8, 2021)

jamesrush308 said:


> I will not be getting anything until I know it's safe! I have recovered from Covid 19 my doctors have pushed the vaccine like they are a damn commercial for it..I almost went along with it just so they'd shut up! But that is one appointment I will not be showing up for..


As another recovered covid person there's been a few people who've had covid who got the vaccine and had severe reactions including death. There's no consensus on if it's safe for recovered people to get the vaccine. Until I see that I'll hold off awhile.


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## Jeni (Feb 8, 2021)

jamesrush308 said:


> I will not be getting anything until I know it's safe! I have recovered from Covid 19 my doctors have pushed the vaccine like they are a damn commercial for it..I almost went along with it just so they'd shut up! But that is one appointment I will not be showing up for..
> 
> They are targeting us older folks first with a brand new experimental vaccine that has not been proven to do anything beneficial and nobody thinks anything of it..Especially in this political climate! And the CDC removed immunity from infection from their page about herd immunity, it Only says vaccines now..
> That is very peculiar.
> ...


Exactly .... if these shots are so great they would sell themselves and not need either bribes to take from companies or threats of non admittance etc.....
The CDC site is constantly massaging their messages to reflect more PC then science....... 
that is why IMO .... CDC lost a lot of credibility over this whole thing...........  the ever changing messages ...the fear mongering etc


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## Becky1951 (Feb 8, 2021)

It takes years to study the effects of any vaccine.

I understand that this virus has caused the extreme circumstances of rushing it.

But no matter how you slice it, dice it, and try to serve it up, we are still Guinea pigs. 

For those who decided to take a leap of faith and get the vaccine, awesome, you are comfortable with your decision.

For those like me who are not yet convinced, I for one am tired of having it shoved down my throat by media, by Dr's who are self appointed "experts". Everytime an article is released by various news, it has a different "expert" telling us to get the vaccine.

It's like, ok, the minions didn't listen to our "experts A, B, and C. So let's find us a Dr , X, Y, and Z to push it.


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## Don M. (Feb 8, 2021)

Our county Health Dept. called this morning, and said they had a shipment of vaccine, and wanted to schedule us.  I am getting the first shot Wednesday morning, but my wife is going to wait a couple of weeks....in case I have issues with the vaccine....better that we don't get the shots at the same time....IMO.  It's a bit of a gamble, but we're ready to start the path back to Normal.....wish me luck.


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## win231 (Feb 8, 2021)

old medic said:


> Among my co-workers and hospital staff I know, 3 out of 4 are refusing it.


That's what's known as "A really big hint."


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## StarSong (Feb 8, 2021)

The 10 or so nurses, docs and health care professionals I know were eager for vaccines and have gotten both shots already.  No side effects beyond mild symptoms for a day or two. A retired MD and RN I know in Florida volunteered in a clinic in exchange for being vaccinated. 

Of all my friends and relatives who've talked about this, only one isn't keen to be vaccinated. Teachers are especially ready to roll up their sleeve so they can safely return to the classrooms.


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## asp3 (Feb 8, 2021)

My summary of the article is as follows:


It's based on a survey taken the first week of January before there had been widespread vaccinations, so it's somewhat old data.
One of the people who had been hesitant was so because she didn't think that the distribution to non-whites was equitable and she had other questions but she has gotten vaccinated.
Some are reluctant because they developed a distrust for their employers and the government who failed to get them masks and PPE earlier on in the pandemic.
Employers who have mandated vaccinations have increased some healthcare workers mistrust of their employers.
Some who are hesitant are female healthcare workers who are pregnant or may get pregnant
Many healthcare workers (security people, cleaning staff, orderlies, nursing home aides, etc...) only have high school educations and don't have the level of medical and healthcare training that other healthcare workers have.
Past history including the Tuskegee syphilis studies lead to mistrust in some people.

So my take on the article is that it's a nothing burger overall.

I have the personal experience of having my son (who is a healthcare worker) and my father have both been vaccinated already so I have great genetic comparisons that give me reason to trust the vaccines.  I'm pretty sure my son had Pfizer and my father had Moderna.  However I doubt I'll be able to get mine until next month so time will tell what I can get.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 8, 2021)

win231 said:


> That's what's known as "A really big hint."


Is it though? I doubt many nurses and few Dr.s really have much knowledge of vaccines and most probably haven't read up on them as much as some ordinary people . They're not scientists.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 8, 2021)

asp3, please explain #6.

"Many healthcare workers (security people, cleaning staff, orderlies, nursing home aides, etc...) only have high school educations and don't have the level of medical and healthcare training that other healthcare workers have."
Higher education does not always mean higher intelligence.

Many with degrees end up working in a less level of employment.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 8, 2021)

The article also lumps nursing home workers in as health care workers but most nursing home workers are aides with no formal education, they do the dirty work (and God bless them for that) but it's not like these are people who have nursing school degrees or doctorates, etc.  I imagine it also includes the janitors, etc so maybe not the most educated people. And I say that with all respect but just to point out when we hear health care workers you tend to think of nurses and Doctors.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> asp3, please explain #6.
> 
> 
> Higher education does not always mean higher intelligence.


Of course it doesn't but when you're talking about a medical condition are you going to ask a nurse/doctor or the janitor, no matter how smart that janitor is?


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## asp3 (Feb 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> asp3, please explain #6.
> 
> "Many healthcare workers (security people, cleaning staff, orderlies, nursing home aides, etc...) only have high school educations and don't have the level of medical and healthcare training that other healthcare workers have."
> Higher education does not always mean higher intelligence.
> ...



That's what was in the article itself, I was just putting it in the summary.  I agree that lack of higher education is not an indication of less intelligence.

However I think the point was that not all workers who are considered healthcare workers have formal medical and healthcare related education beyond what one can learn in high school.  I do however agree that many have experience which has given them more information than the average high school graduate.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 8, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> The article also lumps nursing home workers in as health care workers but most nursing home workers are aides with no formal education, they do the dirty work (and God bless them for that) but it's not like these are people who have nursing school degrees or doctorates, etc.  I imagine it also includes the janitors, etc so maybe not the most educated people. And I say that with all respect but just to point out when we hear health care workers you tend to think of nurses and Doctors.


It's true we think of only Dr's and nurses.

But once again, higher education does not always equate to higher intelligence. To imply those with a lower level education is without the intelligence to make an informed decision is degrading IMO.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 8, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> Of course it doesn't but when you're talking about a medical condition are you going to ask a nurse/doctor or the janitor, no matter how smart that janitor is.


But we're not talking about asking for medical advice.

We're talking about people refusing the vaccine.


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## Giantsfan1954 (Feb 8, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> The article also lumps nursing home workers in as health care workers but most nursing home workers are aides with no formal education, they do the dirty work (and God bless them for that) but it's not like these are people who have nursing school degrees or doctorates, etc.  I imagine it also includes the janitors, etc so maybe not the most educated people. And I say that with all respect but just to point out when we hear health care workers you tend to think of nurses and Doctors.


The facilities will just mandate it at some point like they do the flu shot here in NY.
Take the shot or wear a mask or there’s the door


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## Jeni (Feb 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> But we're not talking about asking for medical advice.
> 
> We're talking about people refusing the vaccine.



It is about changing the narrative that is all ............ reluctance in this is valid.............. so some resort name calling or to questioning a persons intelligence. Then people act surprised why others  were offended and  stay divided. 

If you spend any time in a hospital you might find you have far more interaction with the very people that some want to question their intelligence .... far more .......then a doctor maybe even nurse. 

This  discussion will only go round and round ..... some people want shot .......... and others do NOT.   

This  campaign by some in media etc to categorize and insult those whom do not want shot .... only looks bad for them.   
 Not civil enough to accept others may disagree with their assessment.........so then  they want to FORCE others to make the same decision as them. 

If people want it and get it fine I hope they all have no issues ......  
 but as the facts show some people have bad reactions and there is nothing but guesses as to why.....

I really do not see why they are pushing this on people whom already had virus ........as they should have natural occurring antibodies without prompting their immune system again ........ most of the bad issues have been  when the immune system goes into overdrive.......


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## StarSong (Feb 8, 2021)

Giantsfan1954 said:


> The facilities will just mandate it at some point like they do the flu shot here in NY.
> Take the shot or wear a mask or there’s the door


I think you're right.


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## asp3 (Feb 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It's true we think of only Dr's and nurses.
> 
> But once again, higher education does not always equate to higher intelligence. To imply those with a lower level education is without the intelligence to make an informed decision is degrading IMO.



There is however most likely a difference in the level of knowledge that doctors and nurses have and need in their professions that aren't required by others.  I myself wouldn't say the other health workers are less intelligent.  But I'm willing to bet that most of them are ignorant of some of the background information that a doctor or a nurse would use in deciding whether or not to be vaccinated.

Ignorance is a curable condition in many cases.


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## asp3 (Feb 8, 2021)

I think the title of the article is somewhat of a false narrative.  What I am trying to point out is that not all healthcare workers are on an even playing field for their knowledge of vaccines and human health.  So by lumping all healthcare workers together we can't really assess what the reluctance and/or refusal of health care workers really means.

We need to know what percentage of doctors are choosing to not be vaccinated.  We also need to know what the percentages of nurses, orderlies, health aides, etc... choosing not to be vaccinated.  That would be more useful information for anyone trying to make their own decision.

As I said earlier I consider the article to be a nothing burger.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 8, 2021)

asp3 said:


> There is however most likely a difference in the level of knowledge that doctors and nurses have and need in their professions that aren't required by others.  I myself wouldn't say the other health workers are less intelligent.  But I'm willing to bet that most of them are ignorant of some of the background information that a doctor or a nurse would use in deciding whether or not to be vaccinated.
> 
> Ignorance is a curable condition in many cases.


True they don't have that knowledge or access to it.

And the Dr's and nurses who have that knowledge have No knowledge of future side effects that may occur, unless their Psychic. Not enough people have been vaccinated yet to really know anything. It's just opinions.

Like yours and mine.

If people are interested in knowing all they can before deciding for themselves, then
I'm fairly certain that people know how to access the internet to read research articles and articles of opinion. And decide for themselves. Even a 5 year old knows how to get online.

So to assume its lack of education that results in their decision is erroneous imo.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 8, 2021)

asp3 said:


> I think the title of the article is somewhat of a false narrative.  What I am trying to point out is that not all healthcare workers are on an even playing field for their knowledge of vaccines and human health.  So by lumping all healthcare workers together we can't really assess what the reluctance and/or refusal of health care workers really means.
> 
> We need to know what percentage of doctors are choosing to not be vaccinated.  We also need to know what the percentages of nurses, orderlies, health aides, etc... choosing not to be vaccinated.  That would be more useful information for anyone trying to make their own decision.
> 
> As I said earlier I consider the article to be a nothing burger.


Agree %


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## JonDouglas (Feb 8, 2021)

We've a good friend who is both a  very healthy senior and working nurse.  She called us the weekend to tell us she now has COVID.  I was told she got the vaccine earlier in the week.  One picture does not a movie make but it is a data point.


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## Liberty (Feb 8, 2021)

Jeni said:


> It is about changing the narrative that is all ............ reluctance in this is valid.............. so some resort name calling or to questioning a persons intelligence. Then people act surprised why others  were offended and  stay divided.
> 
> If you spend any time in a hospital you might find you have far more interaction with the very people that some want to question their intelligence .... far more .......then a doctor maybe even nurse.
> 
> ...


Its been shown the antibodies only last 3-5 months, after having covid.  So those folks do not have long term immunity.  The Moderna vaccine has been shown to be effective for a year and probably 2-3 years; guessing Pfizer is similar, I'd have no problem getting a booster every year to help the country and ourselves get back to normal.  We miss our family and this is no way to live long term.


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## Liberty (Feb 8, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> We've a good friend who is both a  very healthy senior and working nurse.  She called us the weekend to tell us she now has COVID.  I was told she got the vaccine earlier in the week.  One picture does not a movie make but it is a data point.


You aren't protected from covid until 10 days or so *after the 2nd shot. * You can become infected until then as your body has not built up sufficient immunity.


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## asp3 (Feb 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> And the Dr's and nurses who have that knowledge have No knowledge of future side effects that may occur, unless their Psychic. Not enough people have been vaccinated yet to really know anything. It's just opinions.



But in the case of the doctors and nurses as a group I trust them to have more knowledgeable opinions.  I don't think one needs to be a psychic to have a reasonable opinion regarding the potential side effects of a vaccine.  Although these vaccines are completely new types of vaccines for humans in their education and training might have provided more knowledge about elements of the vaccines that most people wouldn't be aware of.  They may have a better understanding of how foreign RNA affects humans and that may very well be part of their training on how the human body builds immunity.


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## PopsnTuff (Feb 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> I'm right there with you!


Me too Marg and Becky.....


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## Jeni (Feb 8, 2021)

Liberty said:


> Its been shown the antibodies only last 3-5 months, after having covid.  So those folks do not have long term immunity.  The Moderna vaccine has been shown to be effective for a year and probably 2-3 years; guessing Pfizer is similar, I'd have no problem getting a booster every year to help the country and ourselves get back to normal.  We miss our family and this is no way to live long term.


So an  inactive type virus in a vaccine......... the antibodies last  more than a year    .... but a real invasion of virus and your body fights  off successfully ...... but  forgets in 3-5 months .... 

I am not sure i am buying  into that.....   
No this is no way to live...... i agree................ but too much of this has gone too far and we will never return to normal ........


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## DaveA (Feb 8, 2021)

Sadly, regardless of levels of education, in this particular climate we have many people getting their info from elected officials.  Senators, Reps, and the like are the sources for many folks

Listen to the comments, regarding the present virus, then pay attention to the views of the same folks regarding politics.  In the majority of cases these views tend to align although you'd be hard put to find anyone that would own up to this farcical thinking.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 8, 2021)

Liberty said:


> Its been shown the antibodies only last 3-5 months, after having covid.  So those folks do not have long term immunity.  The Moderna vaccine has been shown to be effective for a year and probably 2-3 years; guessing Pfizer is similar, I'd have no problem getting a booster every year to help the country and ourselves get back to normal.  We miss our family and this is no way to live long term.


"The Moderna vaccine has been shown to be effective for a year and probably 2-3 years"

Do you have a site reference for that?


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## Becky1951 (Feb 8, 2021)

DaveA said:


> Sadly, regardless of levels of education, in this particular climate we have many people getting their info from elected officials.  Senators, Reps, and the like are the sources for many folks
> 
> Listen to the comments, regarding the present virus, then pay attention to the views of the same folks regarding politics.  In the majority of cases these views tend to align although you'd be hard put to find anyone that would own up to this farcical thinking.


Unfortunately that happens. I've never trusted politicians, they all have their own agendas.


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## MarciKS (Feb 8, 2021)

asp3 said:


> There is however most likely a difference in the level of knowledge that doctors and nurses have and need in their professions that aren't required by others.  I myself wouldn't say the other health workers are less intelligent.  But I'm willing to bet that most of them are ignorant of some of the background information that a doctor or a nurse would use in deciding whether or not to be vaccinated.
> 
> Ignorance is a curable condition in many cases.


i think a lot of their refusal to take it has been based on the media hype and not on actual knowledge. that is what i am witnessing among the healthcare providers here where i work.


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## Irwin (Feb 8, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> We've a good friend who is both a  very healthy senior and working nurse.  She called us the weekend to tell us she now has COVID.  I was told she got the vaccine earlier in the week.  One picture does not a movie make but it is a data point.



It's my understanding that even after you're vaccinated, you can still get Covid-19. The vaccination prevents you from having severe symptoms and from needing to be hospitalized, so I guess it's like the flu. And you can still transmit the disease to others, so you still need to wear a face mask.


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## win231 (Feb 8, 2021)

Irwin said:


> It's my understanding that even after you're vaccinated, you can still get Covid-19. The vaccination prevents you from having severe symptoms and from needing to be hospitalized, so I guess it's like the flu. And you can still transmit the disease to others, so you still need to wear a face mask.


Same pro-shot quote used for the flu shot.  I would expect the makers & sellers to say there is _some_ benefit.  After all, we can't very well expect them to say, "It's useless but we want you to get it."


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## Irwin (Feb 8, 2021)

win231 said:


> Same pro-shot quote used for the flu shot.  I would expect the makers & sellers to say there is _some_ benefit.  After all, we can't very well expect them to say, "It's useless but we want you to get it."



*The vaccination prevents you from having severe symptoms and from needing to be hospitalized.*

That's a pretty good benefit if you ask me, so I'm getting a shot. And I'm all for allowing people to refuse. Natural selection can do its work for them.


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## Liberty (Feb 8, 2021)

Jeni said:


> So an  inactive type virus in a vaccine......... the antibodies last  more than a year    .... but a real invasion of virus and your body fights  off successfully ...... but  forgets in 3-5 months ....
> 
> I am not sure i am buying  into that.....
> No this is no way to live...... i agree................ but too much of this has gone too far and we will never return to normal ........


Its like a cold.  You can get a cold, but still get another cold in a couple months or so.  What I hope could come out of this is new effective vaccines and treatments for ailments that have just been accepted for too long.  Vaccines that have the capability of saving untold lives in the future.  Hopefully this is just the beginning of what is learned and perfected.

If you don't want to get a vaccine, so don't get one.  Its everyone's own decision.  I do think we will get back to a "normal"...it will take a while, but it would take way longer to without the vaccines in the picture.  

I almost died when I was 6...if there would have been a vaccine for what ailed me then, I'm sure my mom would have got it for me in a New York moment.  Instead of having me lay in bed for 9 months. 

This is a killer bug, and 95% of all deaths reported are from those over 50 yrs old.
The oldster's are the ones taking the biggest chances...not the younger folks. Personally, I wouldn't want to die that way... painfully sucking for  each breath of air, if I could help it. 

 My dad had emphysema and couldn't cross a room without taking 5 minutes to get his wind back.  This is a nasty killer disease to those of us in our golden years.

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/coronavirus-deaths-older-adults.html


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## Liberty (Feb 8, 2021)

Irwin said:


> *The vaccination prevents you from having severe symptoms and from needing to be hospitalized.*
> 
> That's a pretty good benefit if you ask me, so I'm getting a shot. And I'm all for allowing people to refuse. Natural selection can do its work for them.


This is a brief history of the mRNA vaccine lineage...the reason it jumped to the forefront so quickly and with its use the great hope for the future facilitation of the understanding gleaned from applications today -  for the hopeful eradication of other diseases:

https://news.mit.edu/2020/rna-vaccines-explained-covid-19-1211


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## win231 (Feb 8, 2021)

Irwin said:


> *The vaccination prevents you from having severe symptoms and from needing to be hospitalized.*
> 
> That's a pretty good benefit if you ask me, so I'm getting a shot. And I'm all for allowing people to refuse. Natural selection can do its work for them.


The issue is not what is _claimed_; it is whether or not to _believe_ what is claimed.
Just as with the _"Death rates due to Covid_" or something else, but _claimed_ to be from Covid.  It boils down to trust & what one believes.
And, those who believe what is claimed should get the vaccine.


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## jamesrush308 (Feb 8, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> As another recovered covid person there's been a few people who've had covid who got the vaccine and had severe reactions including death. There's no consensus on if it's safe for recovered people to get the vaccine. Until I see that I'll hold off awhile.


 Can you believe they don't allow lawsuits!!! That is crazy..Glad I am skipping this one.



Jeni said:


> Exactly .... if these shots are so great they would sell themselves and not need either bribes to take from companies or threats of non admittance etc.....
> The CDC site is constantly massaging their messages to reflect more PC then science.......
> that is why IMO .... CDC lost a lot of credibility over this whole thing...........  the ever changing messages ...the fear mongering etc


Don't forget about the faulty tests from the CDC when there were other available tests that worked... And many conflicting info.. 90 percent effective, 80 percent effective, 60 percent affective, 100 percent effective.... Pick one!!! You can't even know the pecerentage because it is too early!!!!!

I have recieved every vaccine so far I even remember the smallpox vaccine! But this COVID is the only one I do not trust.... Hell we have lived through many sickness I think we know better than anyone hahaha


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## fmdog44 (Feb 8, 2021)

If those people are right then science is wrong? The numbers are turning in a positive direction in many areas. Perhaps many of those workers know if they do get it they will be given top priority treatment. Many don't trust the government as many black healthcare workers have expressed fear. I wonder what the numbers in the Tampa Bay area will look like after the partying before and after the Super Bowl.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It's true we think of only Dr's and nurses.
> 
> But once again, higher education does not always equate to higher intelligence. To imply those with a lower level education is without the intelligence to make an informed decision is degrading IMO.


The point is, for people who are reading these articles, they're seeing "health care workers are not getting the vaccine" and they're thinking Dr.s and nurses are refusing the vaccine, which isn't necessarily true,  which makes them reconsider there choice. They're opinion might change if they knew those "healthcare workers" were mainly janitors and food workers.
   It's not about higher education meaning higher intelligence, it's about people who have actually studied a subject compared to someone who hasn't, no matter how smart. Next time you have a medical condition, go see a janitor. And next time you have a plumbing problem go see your Dr and see how that works out.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> But we're not talking about asking for medical advice.
> 
> We're talking about people refusing the vaccine.


Which equates to medical advice. You don't think a Dr. knows more about  how this vaccine was developed and works then your average janitor?


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## Liberty (Feb 9, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> If those people are right then science is wrong? The numbers are turning in a positive direction in many areas. Perhaps many of those workers know if they do get it they will be given top priority treatment. Many don't trust the government as many black healthcare workers have expressed fear. I wonder what the numbers in the Tampa Bay area will look like after the partying before and after the Super Bowl.


Or what the numbers will look like when those that drove and flew in in are back home in a couple weeks.  Sigh.


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## Jeni (Feb 9, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> The point is, for people who are reading these articles, they're seeing "health care workers are not getting the vaccine" and they're thinking Dr.s and nurses are refusing the vaccine, which isn't necessarily true,  which makes them reconsider there choice. They're opinion might change if they knew those "healthcare workers" were mainly janitors and food workers.
> It's not about higher education meaning higher intelligence, it's about people who have actually studied a subject compared to someone who hasn't, no matter how smart. Next time you have a medical condition, go see a janitor. And next time you have a plumbing problem go see your Dr and see how that works out.




This would suggest that people may examine the issue  further.........do research on their own ......  maybe that is too much to expect that people look deeper then the Title..........easier to believe all can just be herded like cattle to make the choice others have......

Do any of the articles state the percentage of these are janitors and cafeteria workers.?    Maybe they go farther to pick the real smart doctors and nurses as some may have not gone to the "right"  school  so they should be dismissed as well..........

If they do NOT break down every survey by resume...how do some KNOW it is not Dr or nurses??....... 
others are making assumptions too ...............            
Many seem to ASSUME only others working in healthcare setting .... but NOT the smart ones ....chose to not have shot...

That is very condescending......... yet being used to dismiss anyone not following group think.....
I encourage people to look at ALL information not assumptions to make their personal choice........  

But if too many do not pick the item being pushed ....I am sure many will try to force that on others.........
this is why  now days .....people love to shut down or Cancel anyone that disagrees with them or even brings up a discussion


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## StarSong (Feb 9, 2021)

The usual suspects line up in the usual way.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 9, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> The point is, for people who are reading these articles, they're seeing "health care workers are not getting the vaccine" and they're thinking Dr.s and nurses are refusing the vaccine, which isn't necessarily true,  which makes them reconsider there choice. They're opinion might change if they knew those "healthcare workers" were mainly janitors and food workers.
> It's not about higher education meaning higher intelligence, it's about people who have actually studied a subject compared to someone who hasn't, no matter how smart. Next time you have a medical condition, go see a janitor. And next time you have a plumbing problem go see your Dr and see how that works out.


A significant percentage of _*doctors, nurses,*_ EMS workers, support staff and other health care employees said they turned down the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines over concerns they may not be safe or effective,

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/covid-vaccine-health-care-worker-reluctance/

Dr. Joseph Varon, chief of critical care at Houston’s United Memorial Medical Center, told NPR in December more than half of the _*nurses*_ in his unit informed him they would not get the vaccine.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...ne-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/amp/

*COVID: Why some doctors and nurses hesitate to get vaccinated*


https://amp.dw.com/en/covid-why-some-doctors-and-nurses-hesitate-to-get-vaccinated/a-56162735


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## win231 (Feb 9, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> The point is, for people who are reading these articles, they're seeing "health care workers are not getting the vaccine" and they're thinking Dr.s and nurses are refusing the vaccine, which isn't necessarily true,  which makes them reconsider there choice. They're opinion might change if they knew those "healthcare workers" were mainly janitors and food workers.
> It's not about higher education meaning higher intelligence, it's about people who have actually studied a subject compared to someone who hasn't, no matter how smart. Next time you have a medical condition, go see a janitor. And next time you have a plumbing problem go see your Dr and see how that works out.


Well, nice try anyway.....

_*"A significant percentage of doctors, nurses, EMS workers, support staff and other health care employees *said they turned down the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines over concerns they may not be safe or effective, according to a recent *survey* by Surgo Ventures, a non-profit group focused on solving health and social problems. Others in the health field worried the development of the vaccine had been rushed."_


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## asp3 (Feb 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> A significant percentage of _*doctors, nurses,*_ EMS workers, support staff and other health care employees said they turned down the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines over concerns they may not be safe or effective,
> 
> https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/covid-vaccine-health-care-worker-reluctance/
> 
> ...



The first article can list everyone in a group that was surveyed even if some of the sub groups listed did not have a significant percentage as a sub group.  So I see that article as the same nothing burger as the earlier one.

The second article was published January 2nd and updated on the 3rd, so we don't know when those numbers were gathered and what they are like now.  The more than 50 percent at one clinic or medical center is significant, but we don't know the nature of that population.  It might be a group of nurses that is all young and might have a lower chance of serious consequences of getting Covid.

The last one was also from a survey done in December and it was also done in Germany.  I'm not sure how our experience translates to that of Germany.  We are the 8th worst country in the world for Covid deaths per capita and Germany is the 38th worst.  Our rate 1410 per million is more than 3 times higher than their 438 per million.  So it isn't as risky to skip a vaccination there as it is here.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 9, 2021)

The point is, there are Doctors and nurses, which have medical knowledge verses the Janitors and plumbers, and kitchen help who do not have privy to that knowledge and those Doctors and nurses are turning down the vaccine. I'm sure Germany's Doctors are reasonably educated just as our are.

This push to get those wishing to wait is getting ridiculous.

Snarky remarks and implying those who wish to wait are uneducated, plus many more.

No one who is waiting to get the vaccine is trying to convince others to not get vaccinated just because they are not getting the vaccine, yet there are plenty on the band wagon trying to imply that those waiting don't have the information or education needed to make that decision. 

I will continue to read as much information that's available as I can, and will continue to post information I find. Good or bad.

I believe we need to know as much as we can in order to make a decision. The problem is there isn't enough solid, confirmed without a doubt information yet. 

Plenty of maybes, possible's, could, should, might, more data needed, more research coming. 

Those words come in handy when they have to back peddle when they are wrong.


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## asp3 (Feb 9, 2021)

I'm sorry if I've come off as snarky, that has not been my intent.

I do agree that everyone should use whatever reliable, credible information they can get to decide whether or not to get vaccinated.

I am not trying to push anyone to get a shot if they are not wishing to.  I'm sorry my posts are giving that impression.

The point I was trying to make with the original healthcare workers article and the one you posted recently is that set of people include both those with extensive medical knowledge and training and those who do not.  They did not break down the percentages of differentiated groups turning down the vaccine.

The bottom line for me is that I am fortunate to have had two very closely related genetic relatives, my father and my son, who have had the vaccines without any complications so that bodes well for the same to happen for me.  The other thing that I'm happy with is that we have had 33 million people get one or both doses of the vaccine without any widespread problems reported.  So based on those two things I feel comfortable getting vaccinated and am looking forward to be eligible to get vaccinated ASAP.

There are many legitimate reasons why someone wouldn't want to be vaccinated yet and hopefully most of those reasons will be addressed as time goes on.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 9, 2021)

asp3 said:


> I'm sorry if I've come off as snarky, that has not been my intent.
> 
> I do agree that everyone should use whatever reliable, credible information they can get to decide whether or not to get vaccinated.
> 
> ...


Oh my I'm sorry asp3, my post was not meant to you personally. You've never posted anything that came off as snarky.
I know your not pushing the vaccine.


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## mellowyellow (Feb 9, 2021)

It's a bad look - doctors and nurses refusing the jab - and I don't blame people for not rushing to have one, but here, we've been told to expect the worst possible outcome IMO - in the coming months (possibly years), we will not be allowed into a supermarket or a chemist to pick up medication unless we can show vaccination proof.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 10, 2021)

win231 said:


> Well, nice try anyway.....
> 
> _*"A significant percentage of doctors, nurses, EMS workers, support staff and other health care employees *said they turned down the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines over concerns they may not be safe or effective, according to a recent *survey* by Surgo Ventures, a non-profit group focused on solving health and social problems. Others in the health field worried the development of the vaccine had been rushed."_


 I wasn't really arguing the other way. Just that the idea that "health care workers" in many of these articles (especially when they include nursing homes) aren't likely the people most think they are. I have my issues with the vaccine also. I probably won't get one of the mRNA vaccines, but might get one of the others after doing more research.


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## garyt1957 (Feb 10, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> A significant percentage of _*doctors, nurses,*_ EMS workers, support staff and other health care employees said they turned down the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines over concerns they may not be safe or effective,
> 
> https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/covid-vaccine-health-care-worker-reluctance/
> 
> ...


Not arguing that they didn't. Although a significant % is certainly not a majority. My point was that any article that quotes "healthcare workers" is not made up of a majority of the people we think they're referring to at first glance. I have my own problems with the vaccine and will probably not get the mRNA version. Still up in the air about the others.


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## Irwin (Feb 10, 2021)

From the survey...
"Among all healthcare workers, women, Republicans, and Black healthcare workers were the most hesitant; and Black healthcare workers so far have refused available vaccines at significantly higher rates than the average (35%)."

Hmmm...


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## asp3 (Feb 10, 2021)

Irwin said:


> From the survey...
> "Among all healthcare workers, women, Republicans, and Black healthcare workers were the most hesitant; and Black healthcare workers so far have refused available vaccines at significantly higher rates than the average (35%)."
> 
> Hmmm...



Numerous articles have mentioned the memory of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment as one reason African-Americans are not getting vaccinated.  Another article I read had a comment from a female African-American nurse who said that African-American females are one of the least medically studied groups and therefore she didn't feel comfortable that the potential effects of the vaccine were explored enough for her to get a vaccination yet.


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## StarSong (Feb 10, 2021)

asp3 said:


> Numerous articles have mentioned the memory of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment as one reason African-Americans are not getting vaccinated.  Another article I read had a comment from a female African-American nurse who said that African-American females are one of the least medically studied groups and therefore she didn't feel comfortable that the potential effects of the vaccine were explored enough for her to get a vaccination yet.


Some medical practices in the US and other countries have been horror stories.


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## old medic (Feb 11, 2021)

One of our medics has had both shots, and basically felt like hell for 2 weeks...
Kicking himself for taking it.


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## Ronni (Feb 11, 2021)

Jeni said:


> So an  inactive type virus in a vaccine......... the antibodies last  more than a year    .... but a real invasion of virus and your body fights  off successfully ...... but  forgets in 3-5 months ....
> 
> I am not sure i am buying  into that.....
> No this is no way to live...... i agree................ but too much of this has gone too far and we will never return to normal ........


You’re not getting a weakened virus or killed virus when you get the Covid vaccine so it’s an invalid comparison. .


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## StarSong (Feb 11, 2021)

old medic said:


> One of our medics has had both shots, and basically felt like hell for 2 weeks...
> Kicking himself for taking it.


Only two weeks?  Lucky him.  

I got sick with a mild case the end of December and have been coughing for 7 weeks with no clear end in sight. If it doesn't clear up in two weeks with the new steroid Rx, the next step is X-rays and CT scans to determine whether my lungs have suffered irreversible lung damage from Covid.

Beyond being 68, I have not a single pre-existing condition - not overweight, don't smoke, no diabetes, no high BP, etc. - and had been very careful. 

Compared to some of the personal COVID experiences fellow SF members have suffered, two weeks of feeling like hell would be a walk in the park.


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## win231 (Feb 11, 2021)

old medic said:


> One of our medics has had both shots, and basically felt like hell for 2 weeks...
> Kicking himself for taking it.


Well, if the shot gave him Covid, he may be immune now.  That's one way of getting "protected."


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## old medic (Feb 11, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Only two weeks? Lucky him.


No dear... Its been 2 weeks and he is not improving...6 years younger than me


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## StarSong (Feb 11, 2021)

old medic said:


> No dear... Its been 2 weeks and he is not improving...6 years younger than me


Sorry darling, that wasn't clear from your post.  I'm truly sorry that your friend is suffering so much with vaccine side effect.


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## old medic (Feb 11, 2021)

I have truly seen such a diverse reaction to the virus and vaccination across the board.... 
80+ years old with tons of issues... minor symptoms..
63 year old healthy and fell apart and died. 
90 something the other day tested negative twice, got the vac and then became positive... has no COVID complaints.
But again Im considered exposed again myself because of his fall...


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## J.B Books (Feb 11, 2021)

For your consideration only.

Had lunch with two PhD's in the pharma research and development field.

Both of them said they would not get the vaccine.

All the nurses I know and spoken with said hey would not get the vaccine if given a choice. One was a retired head nurse in an ICU.

A friend of mine just had his physical and asked his DR about the vaccine. His Dr. said that he would not recommend that he get the vaccine.


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## Becky1951 (Feb 11, 2021)

J.B Books said:


> For your consideration only.
> 
> Had lunch with two PhD's in the pharma research and development field.
> 
> ...


Did the two PhD's in the pharma research and development field give a reason why?


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## asp3 (Feb 11, 2021)

For your consideration only.

I spoke to my son (who is a doctor) and all of the doctors and nurses in the emergency department  he works at in a major US city all got vaccinated without any hesitation.  The only people who he knows outside of his emergency department who have delayed being vaccinated are nurses who are concerned with their fertility.

He also said that the vast majority of the healthcare workers he knows were incredibly excited to get it.


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## win231 (Feb 11, 2021)

J.B Books said:


> For your consideration only.
> 
> Had lunch with two PhD's in the pharma research and development field.
> 
> ...


^^^ More "Big Hints"


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