# Covid goalposts just keep moving



## Brookswood (Apr 10, 2021)

Driving home today from a trip to the supermarket, I noticed a freeway traffic sign with this message:



> Vaccinated or not, Mask Up!!  Stay home!  Only travel when necessary!



It got me thinking as to how the goalposts have been moved every time things get better.  It's not that I am against wearing a mask, avoiding crowds (especially indoors), and keeping a social distance from people not in my bubble.   I do all these things. But, being vaccinated, I feel I have the right to some relief from the constant nagging to do this, that and the other things to fight the spread of Covid.  Apparently we are not to be allowed an relief from the Covid stress or to take any joy in the development of these wonderful vaccines.

Here is a good summary of how the Covid goalposts just keep moving. 

1st - Two or three weeks to Crush the Curve
2nd - Six more weeks to keep the curve down
3rd - Deaths are rising and rising!!
4th - Deaths are down but look at all the new cases!!
5th - New cases are way down compared to a few months ago, but look at all those who are still possibly exposed to infection. 
6th - A new variant may pop up that is even worse than the current variants!!!  Stay home. Egads!!!!!


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## SetWave (Apr 10, 2021)

" I feel I have the right . . . "
Therein lies the rub.


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## Dana (Apr 10, 2021)

Of course covid goal posts keep moving...and... they shall keep moving. The world is dealing with *a new virus.* Trial and error will occur and as scientists know more... more will be done. This is completely normal!

Go back in history and see what happened during other pandemics and be thankful we have the technology and expertise we have today. When in history have you seen a vaccine produced in so short a time?
.


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## Brookswood (Apr 10, 2021)

I am not discounting the learning that has gone on about this virus.   What I am concerned about is the constant negative pounding we get from officials and the news media.   No matter what good things happen, we are in trouble according to them.   One official recently warned about "impending doom" from another wave of Covid. DOOM!  Really?

Health officials in my area say it's now OK to travel if one is fully vaccinated, but we should still stay home.
?????   No wonder people are confused.


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## SetWave (Apr 10, 2021)

These are confusing times and people want easy answers that just don't exist. Patience and a modicum of caution is what's needed.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 11, 2021)

IMO it all boils down to this simple bit of advice: _Be good.  If you can't be good, be careful! _


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## hollydolly (Apr 11, 2021)

Well England  re-opens tomorrow, after almost a year of closure...It will be interesting to see how many people who have been vaccinated feeling that they no longer have to wear masks... we do of course, to protect ourselves as much as anyone else..., but we're fortunate in that unlike many places we don't have to wear them outside...


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## win231 (Apr 11, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> I am not discounting the learning that has gone on about this virus.   What I am concerned about is the constant negative pounding we get from officials and the news media.   No matter what good things happen, we are in trouble according to them.   One official recently warned about "impending doom" from another wave of Covid. DOOM!  Really?
> 
> Health officials in my area say it's now OK to travel if one is fully vaccinated, but we should still stay home.
> ?????   No wonder people are confused.


Thinking people are not only confused.  They're suspicious.


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## Buckeye (Apr 11, 2021)

I'm a "go along, get along" old fella, but the I am really tired of all the induced hysteria.


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## Butterfly (Apr 11, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> I'm a "go along, get along" old fella, but the I am really tired of all the induced hysteria.



I'm tired of all the dying.


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## Judycat (Apr 11, 2021)

They are trying to get people to limit the virus spread because it keeps mutating. They are worried about that one mutation that will wipe out most of humanity. Vaccines are only a panacea to help keep people calm. In other words, yes we're doing something. Look we have vaccines!


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## Sunny (Apr 11, 2021)

Yes, the mutation factor is the most frightening part of all this. We could have a 100% perfect vaccine which everybody on earth received, and the virus could produce a new strain that is impervious to the vaccine.  All we can do is keep fighting, and if the vaccine is all we've got to fight with, everyone who is able to get it obviously should. It's like a whack-a-mole game.  The virus wants to fight back.

OTOH, this has not happened with most vaccines. Yes, I know about flu, but it isn't that hard to get a new flu shot every year if that's what's needed. And at least most strains of flu don't kill us, or at least they haven't since that Spanish flu epidemic. 

With most of the fatal virus pandemics, one shot of vaccine is enough to immunize us for a lifetime.


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## Packerjohn (Apr 11, 2021)

This pandemic has divided the people in many countries. 
1.  One group says let's open up the economy and get our lives back on track.  The other side says let's lock everything down again.
2. One group says get the jab.  The other bunch says getting the jab is dangerous.
3. One group says get rid of those ugly masks.  The other group says we should wear masks all the time, even outdoors and you are alone in the woods.


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## Don M. (Apr 11, 2021)

Yes, the rules and recommendations surrounding this virus keep changing....just as the numbers of those being infected keep changing.  No one has a definitive answer as to how things will look days/weeks/months from now, especially as this virus starts to Mutate.  Then only things people can do is exercise caution, get vaccinated, and exhibit some common sense in their daily activities.  We will probably continue to see Spikes and Dips in the numbers, and I expect that to continue for much of this year, at least.


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## helenbacque (Apr 11, 2021)

Why get so upset.  It's well-intended advice meant to help you decide *your own *course of action.  Brain up.


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## tbeltrans (Apr 11, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> I'm tired of all the dying.


I'm tired too.  Maybe it is time for all of us to just take a nap - one of the perks of retirement.   

Then we will all feel better...

Tony


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## Judycat (Apr 11, 2021)

Yes one does everything right to stop the spread of Covid 19 and some dope has too much to drink, hops in his car, and drives 50 mph head on into the poor sap. Hopefully he's driving a new Subaru SUV.


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## Brookswood (Apr 11, 2021)

win231 said:


> Thinking people are not only confused.  They're suspicious.


Well, about a week ago we crashed through the 3 Million doses a day mark on our way to the 4 million doses per day mark.  (Which we achieved yesterday.)

What do we hear from our medical leaders?  "Yea! This is better than we planned."  "This is GREAT!"   We are making great advances towards getting back to normal."

No, we hear that we are on the verge of impending DOOM.  DOOM. That means a disaster that cannot be avoided.   Look it up.

Today, I heard that  we are now thoroughly infected with the variant that is harming India. Yes, the current vaccines are showing they are effective against the variant.  Is that cause for optimism?  NO!   Because we *might* get a variant that is totally untouchable by our vaccines. No data is given to support this, but it might happen. Horror!

I follow all the stuff we should be doing even though I am fully vaccinated. I avoid crowded places, indoors and outdoor. I wear a mask when indoors away from my house.  I rarely hangout with others outside my home, and then only if they are fully vaccinated people. But there are people in positions of influence and power for whom corona virus  is their shtick.
  It's what makes them more important, earns them more money, garners them attention they would normally have, and allows them to wield power they normally would not have (Hey, it's a public safety emergency!)

No wonder people don't know what to believe.

OK. Enough venting for now.


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## Meanderer (Apr 12, 2021)

SetWave said:


> These are confusing times and people want easy answers that just don't exist. Patience and a modicum of caution is what's needed.


People want honest answers.


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## Dana (Apr 12, 2021)

helenbacque said:


> Why get so upset.  It's well-intended advice meant to help you decide *your own *course of action.  Brain up.


Exactly!


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## Sunny (Apr 12, 2021)

Meanderer said:


> People want honest answers.


What answers do you know of that are _not _honest? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment, but it sounds like you are suggesting that the researchers and physicians are lying to us.


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## Liberty (Apr 12, 2021)

Pay attention to the "R" factor in your area...that shows the trending of the virus.  If the reproduction rate is 1> its going up, if its <1 its trending down.


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## win231 (Apr 12, 2021)

Sunny said:


> What answers do you know of that are _not _honest? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment, but it sounds like you are suggesting that the researchers and physicians are lying to us.


Testing people  who were killed  in accidents & listing the cause of death as Covid if they test positive.  And relying on a test that's 47% accurate.
That's likely how they arrived at the 550,000 deaths figure.
Reporting packed ER's & Hospitals filled to capacity & people dropping like flies, & so many dead bodies, they have to store them on meat trucks in hospital parking lots.  I've taken friends to 4 different hospitals - nothing of the sort happening.
Getting immediate approval for an experimental drug by claiming our former president had Covid, was put on a respirator, & the drug cured him in 3 days.
First, masks are "useless," then they're required.
Developing an "effective" vaccine in less than one year & pushing it on frightened people, when vaccines take 10-15 years of study to establish safety & effectiveness.
Yeah.....I believe ya.........


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## chic (Apr 12, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> This pandemic has divided the people in many countries.
> 1.  One group says let's open up the economy and get our lives back on track.  The other side says let's lock everything down again.
> 2. One group says get the jab.  The other bunch says getting the jab is dangerous.
> 3. One group says get rid of those ugly masks.  The other group says we should wear masks all the time, even outdoors and you are alone in the woods.


The division is terrible. I hate that. It helps nothing and causes more stress which is bad for everyone's health no matter what side you are on.

What you say about the woods is true. I can no longer go for a hike because the hiking area is loaded with people in masks and I feel like WTH. You're in the woods for heaven's sake. I give up.


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## hollydolly (Apr 12, 2021)

chic said:


> The division is terrible. I hate that. It helps nothing and causes more stress which is bad for everyone's health no matter what side you are on.
> 
> What you say about the woods is true. I can no longer go for a hike because the hiking area is loaded with people in masks and I feel like WTH. You're in the woods for heaven's sake. I give up.


Wish you could come here @chic..as long as you stay at least a metre away from people.where possible.. you do not have to wear a mask outside, and where I live we have lots of woodland, rivers and parks..


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## chic (Apr 12, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Wish you could come here @chic..as long as you stay at least a metre away from people.where possible.. you do not have to wear a mask outside, and where I live we have lots of woodland, rivers and parks..


I'd have to wear a mask on the plane to get there!


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## hollydolly (Apr 12, 2021)

chic said:


> I'd have to wear a mask on the plane to get there!
> 
> View attachment 159427


LOL...well you wouldn't be allowed in anyway at the moment sadly..


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## JimBob1952 (Apr 12, 2021)

Sunny said:


> What answers do you know of that are _not _honest? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment, but it sounds like you are suggesting that the researchers and physicians are lying to us.



I don't think they are lying to us. But they present things as settled fact which are not.  Case in point:  All the time, effort and money spent on sanitizing surfaces, which turns out not to be very important.

Remember last year's "ventilator crisis?"  Turns out ventilators aren't that important, either.  

We weren't supposed to wear masks (because health professionals needed them), then we were.  

In southern states that dropped the mask mandates early, everyone was supposed to die.  Except that the virus jumped in Michigan, Massachusetts and New Jersey instead.  



A certain amount of skepticism is warranted, that's all I'm saying.


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## JonDouglas (Apr 12, 2021)

All government agencies carefully "craft" their messages, often spending hours and days wordsmithing it until it fits the political narrative.  After perusing through some of the medical journals, I am convinced the real experts on the front line (i.e., not Fauci, whose inconsistencies and flip-flops give him away as a political operative and TV star wannabe, IMO) are not being heard by the public at large for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is our agenda-driven media.

I remember reading an article in one of the leading medical journals by doctors on the front line that suggested masks weren't all that helpfu or necessary for the public at large. That message got stepped on real quick when some really bad science was held up as proof masks were needed..  There are/were other examples.

One thing to consider:  Colds and flu haven't ever gone away, just up and down.  Covid is another form of a cold/flu.  Like other cold/flu variants, it's not likely to go away.


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## Packerjohn (Apr 13, 2021)

chic said:


> The division is terrible. I hate that. It helps nothing and causes more stress which is bad for everyone's health no matter what side you are on.
> 
> What you say about the woods is true. I can no longer go for a hike because the hiking area is loaded with people in masks and I feel like WTH. You're in the woods for heaven's sake. I give up.


I'm afraid that a segment of our population have become faceless zombies; walking like the living but no longer thinking.


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## JonDouglas (Apr 13, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> I'm afraid that a segment of our population have become faceless zombies; walking like the living but no longer thinking.


One of the characteristics of the populace in Nazi Germany was that they believed and did what the government said without much thinking or questioning.


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## chic (Apr 13, 2021)

Packerjohn said:


> I'm afraid that a segment of our population have become faceless zombies; walking like the living but no longer thinking.


I think certain states keep the mask mandate in place less for fear of public health than to control. Seeing and endless sea of faceless people is disturbing psychologically. It's a 24/7 reminder to you that something is wrong and it is out of your control. It's a terror tactic.


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## digifoss (Apr 13, 2021)

chic said:


> I think certain states keep the mask mandate in place less for fear of public health than to control. Seeing and endless sea of faceless people is disturbing psychologically. It's a 24/7 reminder to you that something is wrong and it is out of your control. It's a terror tactic.



I agree with your assessment.  We live in a rural area and currently have almost no new covid cases any more, yet I see people driving down the street, alone, in their car by themselves wearing their mask.  Psychologically disturbing is a good way to put it.


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## chic (Apr 13, 2021)

digifoss said:


> I agree with your assessment.  We live in a rural area and currently have almost no new covid cases any more, yet I see people driving down the street, alone, in their car by themselves wearing their mask.  Psychologically disturbing is a good way to put it.


It is because we're not a culture of people who normally wear masks so it's a constant reminder and it's oppressive and stressful, I find.


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## Tish (Apr 13, 2021)

Our government keeps moving the goal posts too.


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## Brookswood (Apr 15, 2021)

win231 said:


> Testing people  who were killed  in accidents & listing the cause of death as Covid if they test positive.  And relying on a test that's 47% accurate.
> That's likely how they arrived at the 550,000 deaths figure.
> Reporting packed ER's & Hospitals filled to capacity & people dropping like flies, & so many dead bodies, they have to store them on meat trucks in hospital parking lots.  I've taken friends to 4 different hospitals - nothing of the sort happening.
> Getting immediate approval for an experimental drug by claiming our former president had Covid, was put on a respirator, & the drug cured him in 3 days.
> ...



The above comments make me angry. Not at the person who wrote them but at the news media who use their usual 'scare the ^%#&*! out of them" tactics to report on conrona virus. And our 'leaders' who thought us a bunch of simpletons so they gave us stupid rules that were incomplete if not inaccurate.  My guess is there would be fewer doubters if we had received accurate, fair, well presented information early, instead of "You're all at great risk, and are going to suffer and die a horrible death from Covid" type stories.

On the subject of the rapid vaccine development.....   Scientists have been studying various corona viruses for decades.   mRNA technology did not just pop up.  It's something with many years of development behind it. There were a lot of failures as it was developed.  What else is new? We are fortunate that it matured to a useful point just as the virus hit us.


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## win231 (Apr 15, 2021)

Brookswood said:


> The above comments make me angry. Not at the person who wrote them but at the news media who use their usual 'scare the ^%#&*! out of them" tactics to report on conrona virus. And our 'leaders' who thought us a bunch of simpletons so they gave us stupid rules that were incomplete if not inaccurate.  My guess is there would be fewer doubters if we had received accurate, fair, well presented information early, instead of "You're all at great risk, and are going to suffer and die a horrible death from Covid" type stories.
> 
> On the subject of the rapid vaccine development.....   Scientists have been studying various corona viruses for decades.   mRNA technology did not just pop up.  It's something with many years of development behind it. There were a lot of failures as it was developed.  What else is new? We are fortunate that it matured to a useful point just as the virus hit us.


They're backing off on the usefulness and safety of the vaccine.  I think there will be more backing off in the future.


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## Brookswood (Apr 15, 2021)

win231 said:


> They're backing off on the usefulness and safety of the vaccine.  I think there will be more backing off in the future.


Can you document this?  I have seen no sign of a backing off in regards to either the usefulness or safety of the vaccine.     The numbers coming out of Israel in terms of Covid spread, hospitalizations and suffering are impressively good.   Time will tell, of course.


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## Tish (Apr 15, 2021)

Well, now our P.M. has said that all Australians should be vaccinated by  December. However, we had a death of a woman that passed away from blood clots after receiving the vaccine so it may even be later than that.


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## hollydolly (Apr 15, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> All government agencies carefully "craft" their messages, often spending hours and days wordsmithing it until it fits the political narrative.  After perusing through some of the medical journals, I am convinced the real experts on the front line (i.e., not Fauci, whose inconsistencies and flip-flops give him away as a political operative and TV star wannabe, IMO) are not being heard by the public at large for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is our agenda-driven media.
> 
> I remember reading an article in one of the leading medical journals by doctors on the front line that suggested masks weren't all that helpfu or necessary for the public at large. That message got stepped on real quick when some really bad science was held up as proof masks were needed..  There are/were other examples.
> 
> *One thing to consider:  Colds and flu haven't ever gone away, just up and down.  Covid is another form of a cold/flu.  Like other cold/flu variants, it's not likely to go away.*


I agree with all you say..however the last sentence...I have to admit that since we've all been wearing masks in crowded places I haven't known anyone with a cold or the flu...and I believe the rates of flu generally worldwide have gone down  immensely this last year


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## win231 (Apr 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I agree with all you say..however the last sentence...I have to admit that since we've all been wearing masks in crowded places I haven't known anyone with a cold or the flu...and I believe the rates of flu generally worldwide have gone down  immensely this last year


My sister & I both got colds last month.  She stopped getting sick when she stopped getting flu shots.


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## hollydolly (Apr 15, 2021)

win231 said:


> My sister & I both got colds last month.  She stopped getting sick when she stopped getting flu shots.


yes I heard about this..which is why I never get flu shots...

...but you're the first I've heard  getting a cold since this pandemic started..


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## chic (Apr 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> yes I heard about this..which is why I never get flu shots...
> 
> ...but you're the first I've heard  getting a cold since this pandemic started..


True. I haven't seen any colds this winter. Then again, I don't see many people either. I'd rather catch a cold or even a flu and live in a normal world again, because honestly, I can't take much more of this.


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## win231 (Apr 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> yes I heard about this..which is why I never get flu shots...
> 
> ...but you're the first I've heard  getting a cold since this pandemic started..


A cold is a minor illness & most people wouldn't mention it.  I only mentioned it previously because we were discussing how Covid has changed some people's interactions with friends & relatives.
My sister did acknowledge (and agree with me) that if we got colds while wearing our masks (as we always do as required), the masks couldn't protect against Covid, either.


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## Ladybj (Apr 15, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> I don't think they are lying to us. But they present things as settled fact which are not.  Case in point:  All the time, effort and money spent on sanitizing surfaces, which turns out not to be very important.
> 
> Remember last year's "ventilator crisis?"  Turns out ventilators aren't that important, either.
> 
> ...


They are not lying but there are questions they cannot answer at the present moment.  It's a learning curve for us all. Information is being reported daily regarding the vaccine.  If they are not lying or unsure... soooo glad I decided to wait it out.


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## hollydolly (Apr 15, 2021)

win231 said:


> A cold is a minor illness & most people wouldn't mention it.  I only mentioned it previously because we were discussing how Covid has changed some people's interactions with friends & relatives.
> My sister did acknowledge (and agree with me) that if we got colds while wearing our masks (as we always do as required), the masks couldn't protect against Covid, either.


My husband is someone who gets colds, and flu a lot..and he hasn't had one since he got Covid-19 back in early March.. and was really sick for 16 days


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## JonDouglas (Apr 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> I agree with all you say..however the last sentence...I have to admit that since we've all been wearing masks in crowded places I haven't known anyone with a cold or the flu...and I believe the rates of flu generally worldwide have gone down  immensely this last year


With the symptoms for flu being similar with covid-19, coupled with the availability/reliability of test kits, the fact that the rules for counting covid changed to include anything that looked like it (e.g., regular flu) and that regular flu has never disappeared before (to my knowledge); I am reasonably convinced regular flu and covid are combined in whatever counts exist here.


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## hollydolly (Apr 15, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> With the symptoms for flu being similar with covid-19, coupled with the availability/reliability of test kits, the fact that the rules for counting covid changed to include anything that looked like it (e.g., regular flu) and that regular flu has never disappeared before (to my knowledge); I am reasonably convinced regular flu and covid are combined in whatever counts exist here.


Oh yes I believe there's a lot in that...not wholly of course because when you see or know someone who got Covid-19 really badly..or long covid which has made their lungs into bubbles( which is just horrendous) ...it's not flu at all really..but yes I agree overall...


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## Ruthanne (Apr 15, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> I'm a "go along, get along" old fella, but the I am really tired of all the induced hysteria.


I am beyond tired of it.  The news is so depressing it's ridiculous.


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## hollydolly (Apr 15, 2021)

Watch to the end..this Doctor is being very cautious about the vaccination


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## JonDouglas (Apr 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Watch to the end..this Doctor is being very cautious about the vaccination


Perhaps "group think" in the medical community is exacerbated by the litigious insurance pressure that forces providers to follow the current "best practices" thinking crowd.  The last time I saw any data, it seemed that some children weren't particularly at risk and some high percentage of people who get covid wouldn't have any major symptoms (and probably gain some immunity).


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## chic (Apr 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Watch to the end..this Doctor is being very cautious about the vaccination


Isn't he great? I watch his health videos all the time. What he has to say is valid.


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## hollydolly (Apr 15, 2021)

chic said:


> Isn't he great? I watch his health videos all the time. What he has to say is valid.


Yes I've been watching him for several months now, being British altho' now working in the USA, I can relate to him well


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## Ladybj (Apr 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> Watch to the end..this Doctor is being very cautious about the vaccination


LOVE IT!!!!!!!!  I feel the same way about HP Pressure.  When my oldest son was in the hospital years ago..  We got on the subject of HP pressure.  She informed me Blood Pressure changes through out the day.  If Hp pressure caused xyz.. I would have had it by now.


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## win231 (Apr 15, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> My husband is someone who gets colds, and flu a lot..and he hasn't had one since he got Covid-19 back in early March.. and was really sick for 16 days


He may have acquired immunity to viruses in general because he now has antibodies.  That may explain why I've never had the flu in 38 years after having it once.  Since then, I cared for several friends & family with the flu - (no mask, no distancing).  I've never had a flu shot, so maybe I acquired immunity to all flu strains.


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## chic (Apr 16, 2021)

win231 said:


> He may have acquired immunity to viruses in general because he now has antibodies.  That may explain why I've never had the flu in 38 years after having it once.  Since then, I cared for several friends & family with the flu - (no mask, no distancing).  I've never had a flu shot, so maybe I acquired immunity to all flu strains.


That's possible. I was listening to Dr. Nick Hudson an epidemiologist from South Africa who disagrees with how Dr. Fauci has handled the pandemic. He also said covid 19 is similar to the Sars flu epidemic of 2003. I never even remembered that flu because I never caught it. And I wonder if that is why I have been able to survive maskless for 13 months of this? I've kissed, I've hugged, and talked to strangers.

People seem to forget the human race has survived plagues and pandemics before without vaccines. This whole thing leaves me with so many uncomfortable questions.


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## win231 (Apr 16, 2021)

chic said:


> That's possible. I was listening to Dr. Nick Hudson an epidemiologist from South Africa who disagrees with how Dr. Fauci has handled the pandemic. He also said covid 19 is similar to the Sars flu epidemic of 2003. I never even remembered that flu because I never caught it. And I wonder if that is why I have been able to survive maskless for 13 months of this? I've kissed, I've hugged, and talked to strangers.
> 
> People seem to forget the human race has survived plagues and pandemics before without vaccines. This whole thing leaves me with so many uncomfortable questions.


You may recall "West Nile Virus" several years ago.  It's transmitted by mosquitoes.  A doctor said "The mosquito bite that transmits the virus acts like a vaccine & you can never get sick from the virus again."


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## Sunny (Apr 16, 2021)

I hope that's true about West Nile Virus. I had it about 7-8 years ago and was really sick for about 2 weeks. I gave up lawn bowling because of it; too many mosquitoes out there. I wouldn't want to ever get it again!


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## win231 (Apr 16, 2021)

Sunny said:


> I hope that's true about West Nile Virus. I had it about 7-8 years ago and was really sick for about 2 weeks. I gave up lawn bowling because of it; too many mosquitoes out there. I wouldn't want to ever get it again!


You don't have to give up any outdoor activity - as long as you apply 100% DEET during summer:  (It really works)


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