# Will we just get used to all the dying?



## Ronni (May 6, 2020)

“The coronavirus scenario I can’t stop thinking about is the one where we simply get used to all the dying,” Charlie Warzel writes in Opinion.


_I first saw it on Twitter. “Someone poke holes in this scenario,” a tweet from Eric Nelson, the editorial director of Broadside Books, read. “We keep losing 1,000 to 2,000 a day to coronavirus. People get used to it. We get less vigilant as it very slowly spreads. By December we’re close to normal, but still losing 1,500 a day, and as we tick past 300,000 dead, most people aren’t concerned.”
This hit me like a ton of bricks because of just how plausible it seemed. The day I read Mr. Nelson’s tweet, 1,723 Americans were reported to have died from the virus. And yet their collective passing was hardly mourned. After all, how to distinguish those souls from the 2,097 who perished the day before or the 1,558 who died the day after?
Such loss of life is hard to comprehend when it’s not happening in front of your own two eyes. Add to it that humans are adaptable creatures, no matter how nightmarish the scenario, and it seems understandable that our outrage would dull over time. Unsure how — or perhaps unable — to process tragedy at scale, we get used to it._


Full story here


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## chic (May 6, 2020)

Ronni this is an episode in history. It will change.


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## CarolfromTX (May 6, 2020)

38,000 folks died in car crashes last year. Did we mourn all those deaths? 34,000 died of the flu last year. Did it make the news, ever? Did we mourn them? Thinking like that article gets you nowhere.


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## StarSong (May 6, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> 38,000 folks died in car crashes last year. Did we mourn all those deaths? 34,000 died of the flu last year. Did it make the news, ever? Did we mourn them? Thinking like that article gets you nowhere.


We've not only mourned those deaths, we've gone to extraordinary lengths to reduce them.  The number of fatalities per million miles traveled has dropped to 1.13 per from a high of 24.09 in 1921.  In 1966, it was 5.5 per million miles traveled, but with seatbelt and other vehicle safety improvements, the death rate has dropped steadily ever since.  So yes, we have addressed that and continue to do so.   

Encouragement to get a flu vaccine is hard to avoid between August and February. So again, yes, we've both mourned those deaths and worked to reduce their number.


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## CarolfromTX (May 6, 2020)

That article is meant to manipulate emotions. Looks like it's working.


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## StarSong (May 6, 2020)

CarolfromTX said:


> That article is meant to manipulate emotions. Looks like it's working.


I didn't read the article, just your response.


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## chic (May 6, 2020)

StarSong said:


> I didn't read the article, just your response.



It's a good article but basically says the same thing over and over. The real question is different than anything touched on by the article.

If we are discussing insensitivity to coravirus deaths, the solution is to test us all for antibodies since it's believed by a couple of immunologists i've listened to (as well as Dr, Fauci BTW), that one half to perhaps as much as 90% of us have been exposed and infected by this virus and our immune systems have fought it off so when we know this people may feel more comfortable disarming themselves and reopening the world.


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## Ronni (May 6, 2020)

chic said:


> It's a good article but basically says the same thing over and over. The real question is different than anything touched on by the article.
> 
> If we are discussing insensitivity to coravirus deaths, the solution is to test us all for antibodies since it's believed by a couple of immunologists i've listened to (as well as Dr, Fauci BTW), that one half to perhaps as much as 90% of us have been exposed and infected by this virus and our immune systems have fought it off so when we know this people may feel more comfortable disarming themselves and reopening the world.



I
What is the current research regarding becoming re-infected if you’ve already had the virus?

The last thing I read, the idea that you have immunity if you’ve been infected already was debunked.  But that has been under hot debate with a lot of back and forth for some time now so I don’t put a lot of credence in what I just read.


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## Buckeye (May 6, 2020)

It's a form of emotional fatigue.  We are too tired to care about numbers anymore.  COVID19 has been beaten to death in the media, and it just wears me out.


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## squatting dog (May 6, 2020)

Ronni said:


> The last thing I read, the idea that you have immunity if you’ve been infected already was debunked.  But that has been under hot debate with a lot of back and forth for some time now so I don’t put a lot of credence in what I just read.



Not sure where you read that, because everything I've been able to find says without a long term study they have no way to know one way or the other. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...y-after-recovering-from-a-case-of-coronavirus

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/immun...orkers-deliberate-infection/story?id=69756590

https://www.medicinenet.com/after_infection_are_you_immune_to_covid-19-news.htm

https://blogs.webmd.com/webmd-doctors/20200408/are-you-immune-to-covid19-after-youve-had-it


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## Ruthanne (May 6, 2020)

To be honest people die a lot everyday and it's just not broadcasted constantly.  There are so many illnesses that kill people everyday besides the virus but it's just not being thrown in our faces all the time.

Not to be cruel but it's just a fact of. life


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## Liberty (May 6, 2020)

chic said:


> It's a good article but basically says the same thing over and over. The real question is different than anything touched on by the article.
> 
> If we are discussing insensitivity to coravirus deaths, the solution is to test us all for antibodies since it's believed by a couple of immunologists i've listened to (as well as Dr, Fauci BTW), that one half to perhaps as much as 90% of us have been exposed and infected by this virus and our immune systems have fought it off so when we know this people may feel more comfortable disarming themselves and reopening the world.


Personally don't believe the infection rate is any where near this high.  Perhaps in the dense urban centers, many more have been exposed, but not in even urban areas of more "spread out" living circumstances.  Hub is a fire commissioner and looking at tests has continually showed less than 10% testing positive, so even with the error rates of the tests it would be no more than 15% uptick.  We need 60% to even think about herd immunity. 

Patience is the order of the year, isn't it.  Of course, if the states open up wrongly, that infection rate could balloon up rapidly.


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## Ronni (May 7, 2020)

Liberty said:


> Personally don't believe the infection rate is any where near this high.  Perhaps in the dense urban centers, many more have been exposed, but not in even urban areas of more "spread out" living circumstances.  Hub is a fire commissioner and looking at tests has continually showed less than 10% testing positive, so even with the error rates of the tests it would be no more than 15% uptick.  We need 60% to even think about herd immunity.
> 
> Patience is the order of the year, isn't it.  Of course, if the states open up wrongly, that infection rate could balloon up rapidly.



That's interesting.  My son is the Captain of his Fire Station in Los Angeles California, and I'm getting a very different story from him.  I wonder if the difference is just because it's Los Angeles, a very densely populated city, versus wherever you are in Texas.


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## StarSong (May 7, 2020)

Ronni said:


> That's interesting.  My son is the Captain of his Fire Station in Los Angeles California, and I'm getting a very different story from him.  I wonder if the difference is just because it's Los Angeles, a very densely populated city, versus wherever you are in Texas.


What is your son saying, Ronni?  That the infection is widespread in Los Angeles, or that it isn't?    

Also, what area of Los Angeles is he in, Ronni? And does he work for LA City or LA County? It makes a very big difference, believe me.
Until I moved here from a typically small east coast county (304 square miles), I couldn't fathom the size of western counties. They're ginormous. No kidding.

LA City alone is 468 square miles (population 3.8 million). The county (which includes all of LA City) is 4,750 square miles (population 9.8 million).

Up to date numbers for LA County suggest that the virus is not widespread here. Of course, with so few tests available, it's hard to tell what's what. 9.8 million people and only 192,000 have been tested, 28,648 positives. 

https://www.dailynews.com/2020/03/16/this-map-shows-how-coronavirus-has-struck-much-of-la-county/
http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/Coronavirus/locations.htm


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## Liberty (May 7, 2020)

Ronni said:


> That's interesting.  My son is the Captain of his Fire Station in Los Angeles California, and I'm getting a very different story from him.  I wonder if the difference is just because it's Los Angeles, a very densely populated city, versus wherever you are in Texas.


Yes, the density of the "cluster testing" can really make a difference.  We are in a huge metro area, but with that said, most people have large lots and like us some acreage and that can make for a very different testing result. 

The fire guys know of 15 C-V patients in their transport zones, but all have seemed ok and in the whole zip code there are 47 cases out of approx. 29,000 lower than average total density and mostly white demographics.

Of course, it can change, so vigilance is always needed to keep up to date.  As far as the real issue...think its total hospital ICU accommodations.  Right now all of Harris County, Tx. (Houston metro area - home of the largest med center in the world) is running in the green (so far).  This is the basic "watch" word and the driver of where the overall  county, which consists of both higher and lower density areas, is with respect to handling the virus related emergencies.

Overall, it seems though that all Texas testing is coming up under 10% totals.

Think it boils down to "density" and "travel" issues for specific locations.


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## Don M. (May 7, 2020)

Ruthanne said:


> To be honest people die a lot everyday and it's just not broadcasted constantly.  There are so many illnesses that kill people everyday besides the virus but it's just not being thrown in our faces all the time.  Not to be cruel but it's just a fact of. life



Every year, over 2.8 million people die, in the U.S.  Cancer, Heart disease, auto accidents, suicide, etc., etc.  This virus will add substantially to those numbers, until a vaccine is found and widely used....however, even in the worst scenario, CV-19 will not surpass many other causes of death.  At this time, the Only thing people can do is follow the guidance of staying away from crowds, practicing good hygiene, and using face masks, etc.  All this constant news "coverage" does, is to stress out people, and cause anxiety.  Recognizing the current threats, and taking individual actions to reduce exposure is all that we can do...and encouraging other to do so, also.


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## bingo (May 7, 2020)

it makes us think of our own mortality


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## Ronni (May 7, 2020)

I think


CarolfromTX said:


> 38,000 folks died in car crashes last year. Did we mourn all those deaths? 34,000 died of the flu last year. Did it make the news, ever? Did we mourn them? Thinking like that article gets you nowhere.



I agree with you.

I also know that car crashes and flu and obesity and heart attacks and stroke and cancer and diabetes and all the other things that can kill us have been around for a long time. We got used to all the dying from all those things and all the other things that can, and do, kill us.   That's become our normal.

Here's the thing though, from just my own, very personal perspective.  I get a flu shot, I watch my diet and my weight,  I am a careful, defensive driver, and I do everything I possibly can to ensure my health and quality of life for as long as I am able.  So, even if it's only illusory,  I feel a sense of control over all the things that might kill me if I'm not careful and that makes me feel better.  Because all those other things have become just a part of my normal.  I've lived with them to a greater or lesser degree my whole life.

But I haven't lived with Covid-19 for very long, just barely 3 months, so it's NOT part of my normal yet.  It feels very much out of my control. I can do everything "right" and still catch the virus.  I am to a greater or lesser degree at the mercy of everyone else out there also doing everything "right" along with me, so that I don't catch the damn thing.  

Beyond even that, I don't want Covid-19 to become just another thing that can kill us, just another thing that we all get used to dying from.  I don't want it to become my new normal or anyone else's, because as soon as it does, then we all will, in fact, have just gotten used to all the dying.


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## rgp (May 7, 2020)

So what happens if there is no "cure"/"vaccine" ever found....? There is no cure for the flu, the common cold even. Granted, they are [as a rule] not deadly....but still ? Science just has not found a way.

This thing [covid] may become the new normal.....we can't keep the entire nation & hence industry & the economy shut down for eternity . 

This country was built on it's industrial might, we are loosing it at an alarming rate ....... and some of that started before covid.....now it is just accelerated. 

I fear the "shut-down" more [for the nation] than I fear the virus personally.


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## win231 (May 7, 2020)

chic said:


> It's a good article but basically says the same thing over and over. The real question is different than anything touched on by the article.
> 
> If we are discussing insensitivity to coravirus deaths, the solution is to test us all for antibodies since it's believed by a couple of immunologists i've listened to (as well as Dr, Fauci BTW), that one half to perhaps as much as 90% of us have been exposed and infected by this virus and our immune systems have fought it off so when we know this people may feel more comfortable disarming themselves and reopening the world.


Exactly why the head of the CDC revised his asinine mortality predictions.


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## Ronni (May 7, 2020)

win231 said:


> Exactly why the head of the CDC revised his asinine mortality predictions.




From The Washington Times
_ " The scientists leading the coronavirus shutdown charge predicted in March that in America, between 100,000 and 250,000 would die. They based those estimates on computer modeling."  _That's a direct quote.  

So let's look at the numbers. The main model used to estimate the impact of the coronavirus outbreak in the United States revised its death toll to hit 74,073 by AUGUST 4.  But see, here it is EARLY MAY  and the death toll is ALREADY at 74,581. The average deaths per day since April 1st have been between 1500 - 2000 and are not slowing down yet. 

The death toll will continue to rise for a while yet, based on past and current data and the fact that it's understood by all that reopening the economy will result in more mortality.   At the rate of the low estimate of 1500 deaths a day, that means another 45,000 deaths in the next month.  

So do the math:  45,000 predicted deaths + 75,000 already dead = 120,000 dead by this time next month.  That already exceeds the low end of the death rate that the scientists predicted.  In my book, that's not asinine. That's just plain scary.


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## Liberty (May 8, 2020)

This disease (at its worst or hospital based condition) is presenting as a cardiovascular issue, with hypertension being the most common thread.  Treating hypertension may well help lower the mortality figures.  This, breathing exercises and turning patients on their sides and stomachs to help them breathe whenever possible instead of placing them on vents.   Remember, if 80% of the patients don't need to be hospitalized the key can well be to take care of the other 20% more effectively, perhaps.

Isn't it basically about the 20% bad cases that need to be hospitalized?


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## fmdog44 (May 8, 2020)

Most believe the virus will be here for a min. of two years so do like I do and avoid the first 10-15 minute of the news or the news all together. If you believe the news we will all be dead in the very near future. At least there is power in numbers.


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## Sunny (May 8, 2020)

Somebody made the point that it's hard to relate to large numbers reported every day. But here's an article that really got to me. Somehow, this gruesome disease becomes much more real when you think about 3 members of a happy, loving family wiped out within a couple of weeks, with one of them planning her wedding, no less!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...c3403a-8bef-11ea-9dfd-990f9dcc71fc_story.html


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## MarciKS (May 8, 2020)

I can't and won't get used to the massive amount of deaths because of this. I think it's terrible that so many are dying because of this. It scares me a great deal because I know this is not over and I wonder how many more will have to die before it's done.


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