# Five dead in shooting at Ft. Lauderdale airport



## jujube (Jan 6, 2017)

Not many details yet.  Suspect wounded, in custody. 

Oh, Lord, will it ever stop?


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## aeron (Jan 6, 2017)

jujube said:


> Not many details yet.  Suspect wounded, in custody.
> 
> Oh, Lord, will it ever stop?


No.

BrokenAmerica.


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## Don M. (Jan 6, 2017)

There may be a 2nd shooter....the police have moved into the garage area, and there are more shots reported in another terminal....Here's the Live feed from a local TV station....

http://www.local10.com/news/shots-fired-at-fort-lauderdale-hollywood-international-airport

TV is reporting 5 dead, and 8 injured...so far.


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## WhatInThe (Jan 6, 2017)

Shooter got gun into airport through checked luggage. On a flight from Canada? They allow ammo an explosive material in luggage and yet I can't take shampoo?


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## chic (Jan 6, 2017)

WhatInThe said:


> Shooter got gun into airport through checked luggage. On a flight from Canada? They allow ammo an explosive material in luggage and yet I can't take shampoo?



Yeah, I heard this also and I just don't get it. People are dead because of this. It's stupid. How can this be allowed?


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## BlondieBoomer (Jan 6, 2017)

WhatInThe said:


> Shooter got gun into airport through checked luggage. On a flight from Canada? They allow ammo an explosive material in luggage and yet I can't take shampoo?



That doesn't sound right. I can't imagine Canada allowing explosives in luggage. They're usually a lot stricter than the U.S.


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## Warrigal (Jan 6, 2017)

What was the motive, I wonder?


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## WhatInThe (Jan 6, 2017)

chic said:


> Yeah, I heard this also and I just don't get it. People are dead because of this. It's stupid. How can this be allowed?



It's not they are allowed it's how they are allowed. Any flammable or explosive material should be in approved container with a lock and a seal that can't be broken until off airport property. They're saying this guy walked into a bathroom, opened his luggage and loaded his gun. This seems like planning although they're saying fight on the flight?

Update- boarded Air Canada flight in Alaska

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/video/c...parently-boarded-air-canada-flight-in-alaska/


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## Warrigal (Jan 6, 2017)

He had a concealed carry permit and shot off three magazines before surrendering, according to the link above.


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## mrstime (Jan 6, 2017)

> That doesn't sound right. I can't imagine Canada allowing explosives in luggage. They're usually a lot stricter than the U.S.


It wouldn't happen here thank goodness, we do have very sane gun laws. We also have lots of guns Canada and we almost never hear for instance of a child accidently killing a friend.


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## Warrigal (Jan 6, 2017)

Here is some background on the shooter.



> *The suspect in the Fort Lauderdale Airport shooting was reportedly known to the FBI*
> 
> 
> Natasha Bertrand
> ...



Can someone please tell my why he was eligible for a concealed carry licence in Alaska and allowed to board a plane with a pistol and ammunition in his luggage?


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Jan 6, 2017)

Warrigal said:


> Here is some background on the shooter.
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone please tell my why he was eligible for a concealed carry licence in Alaska and allowed to board a plane with a pistol and ammunition in his luggage?



Many states, including ours, now do not require a concealed carry permit.  ANYONE who can "legally" own a firearm can carry it openly or concealed with no permit and no training.


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## mitchezz (Jan 6, 2017)

Grumpy Ol' Man said:


> Many states, including ours, now do not require a concealed carry permit.  ANYONE who can "legally" own a firearm can carry it openly or concealed with no permit and no training.



Oh yeah....at least the shooter's Constitutional rights weren't threatened.


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## aeron (Jan 7, 2017)

Just watch how the terrorist will be portrayed as having some form of mental disorder rather than being an Islamic terrorist.  We've seen it time and again here especially from Germany after Mad Merkel opened the German borders to all and sundry.

Thankfully (?) this use of mental illness as an excuse for these Muslim activists has significantly reduced as reality swamped the propaganda that was being used to try to keep the sheeple subdued.


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## oldman (Jan 7, 2017)

Florida has the death penalty. The shooter may have chosen the wrong flight to get on. He should have considered one of the more liberal states, like Colorado.


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## Warrigal (Jan 7, 2017)

It would appear that he was barking mad. I don't think the death penalty entered his mind.


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## Shalimar (Jan 7, 2017)

Warrigal said:


> It would appear that he was barking mad. I don't think the death penalty entered his mind.


I agree. Possibly severe PTSD.


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## oldman (Jan 7, 2017)

Warrigal said:


> It would appear that he was barking mad. I don't think the death penalty entered his mind.



Regardless, if it entered his mind or not. It's not a choice thing. The judge isn't going to ask him, "Do you prefer life w/o parole or a needle?" I don't know what barking mad is, but if you are referring to the fact that he may be psychotic, good luck with that. Very few defendants here in the U.S get off with an insanity plea. The judge will ask the psychiatrist if he thinks the defendant knew right from wrong. If the answer is 'yes'. No insanity plea is accepted. (In most states. I don't know about Florida.)


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## oldman (Jan 7, 2017)

You have to be a lawyer to figure all of this out. 

http://www.kevinkuliklaw.com/the-curious-case-of-the-insanity-defense/


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## Warrigal (Jan 7, 2017)

oldman said:


> Regardless, if it entered his mind or not. It's not a choice thing. The judge isn't going to ask him, "Do you prefer life w/o parole or a needle?" I don't know what barking mad is, but if you are referring to the fact that he may be psychotic, good luck with that. Very few defendants here in the U.S get off with an insanity plea. The judge will ask the psychiatrist if he thinks the defendant knew right from wrong. If the answer is 'yes'. No insanity plea is accepted. (In most states. I don't know about Florida.)



If he was a rational terrorist, deliberately weighing the impact of his actions, I wonder why he didn't save the last bullet for himself. 
He doesn't seem to be seeking martyrdom and paradise.

Of course the sentence is up to the judge, but guilt must be decided by a jury of twelve. Evidence from qualified psychiatrists should be admitted during the trial and the jury should hear it before deliberation.


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## aeron (Jan 7, 2017)

Attacks by Islamic activists using terrorism have for a while been downplayed as the perpetrator having been mentally ill as an excuse to calm the sheeple.

In answer to why he didn't "save the last bullet" it is because to kill himself would be a sin in Islam.

For example the so called suicide bombers do not deliberately set out to kill themselves with their bombs, they conduct an attack against non believers and if they die in the process then "that is the will of Allah who could have prevented their death if he had so willed it" and accepted their offer of martyrdom.

There is a very great deal about Islam that people of the West don't understand.


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## Shalimar (Jan 7, 2017)

aeron said:


> Attacks by Islamic activists using terrorism have for a while been downplayed as the perpetrator having been mentally ill as an excuse to calm the sheeple.
> 
> In answer to why he didn't "save the last bullet" it is because to kill himself would be a sin in Islam.
> 
> ...


Hmm. I work with Muslims, Socialise with them also. Some are colleagues, some clients. The actions of a terroristic minority in no way reflect the mindset of the majority of Muslims, anymore than the actions of those targeting Jewish Citizens, or black children in church, reflect the mindset of most Christians.


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## aeron (Jan 7, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> Hmm. I work with Muslims, Socialise with them also. Some are colleagues, some clients. The actions of a terroristic minority in no way reflect the mindset of the majority of Muslims, anymore than the actions of those targeting Jewish Citizens, or black children in church, reflect the mindset of most Christians.


I'm afraid that you have a very great deal to learn about Islam.

In England the same was being said about "Ali down the corner shop" years ago and then we found out that the same Ali and his mates were not the friendly harmless guys we thought they were.  The "terrorists" are the edge of the majority who approve of the aims of installing Islam in our world or at the very least don't condemn the MAJORITY who do.



You will learn.

Eventually.


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## Debby (Jan 7, 2017)

I think the difference aeron is that in Canada or even in the USA, we have a greater advantage in being able to do a lot better job of vetting because in order to get off the plane, they have to actually pass through Customs, etc., whereas in the EU or even Britain (up until recently) masses of refugee people have been pouring over borders everywhere with it being possible for bad people to hide in the crowd.  I would think that this makes a huge difference in the outcome.

Just this morning, our news was doing a one year update of one Syrian family who settled in Antigonish, Nova Scotia and not only did they start a chocolate company called Peace Chocolatiers that is thriving (in only one year) but they hired 10 more people from the community.  Their ambition is to start shops across Canada although they have no intention of leaving the community that welcomed them.


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## Denise1952 (Jan 7, 2017)

jujube said:


> Not many details yet.  Suspect wounded, in custody.
> 
> Oh, Lord, will it ever stop?



Hi JJ, I think it will continue to get worse.  I don't like to sound like a "dooms day" crier, but it sure seems like the world is just getting crazier every day.  I know these things have always gone on in some places, but now I hear them every morning on the internet, and some on news.  The internet puts out way more info than the news I think.  And we get to hear "first-hand" from the people that are actually "there" to see it.  We can still get convoluted info, and even lies though.


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## aeron (Jan 7, 2017)

Its not simply a case of vetting, its that we've been having Muslims immigrate into the UK for decades and allowed them to not only become accepted because no one realised that Islam is totally incompatible to Western democracy and is actually a toxic influence.  

We are now at least 25 years further down the road of being colonised and now it is becoming more entrenched exponentially as what were communities silently morphed into self sealing colonies and now have joined up and as they have rather than Islam becoming more liberal the precise opposite is taking place.

Add to that England is a very much more densely populated country than the US and so what will be taking place in the US will not be so obvious ----- yet.


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## Butterfly (Jan 7, 2017)

oldman said:


> Regardless, if it entered his mind or not. It's not a choice thing. The judge isn't going to ask him, "Do you prefer life w/o parole or a needle?" I don't know what barking mad is, but if you are referring to the fact that he may be psychotic, good luck with that. Very few defendants here in the U.S get off with an insanity plea. The judge will ask the psychiatrist if he thinks the defendant knew right from wrong. If the answer is 'yes'. No insanity plea is accepted. (In most states. I don't know about Florida.)



True here, too.


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## BlondieBoomer (Jan 7, 2017)

Denise1952 said:


> Hi JJ, I think it will continue to get worse.  I don't like to sound like a "dooms day" crier, but it sure seems like the world is just getting crazier every day.  I know these things have always gone on in some places, but now I hear them every morning on the internet, and some on news.  The internet puts out way more info than the news I think.  And we get to hear "first-hand" from the people that are actually "there" to see it.  We can still get convoluted info, and even lies though.



Sadly, I think you are correct. That story got hours of top billing on all the news shows. I had no idea guns and weapons were allowed in checked luggage. Probably a lot of other people didn't either, but they know now. Even the unstable ones. 

There are many more people in the world every day. Also, more guns and more hatred. Look at our political situation and the out and out hatred between the two sides. It's everywhere. I know families that aren't speaking to each other over the election. Long time friendships have ended. Heck, look at all the hatred in the posts on this forum. It's not friendly discussion anymore among many. And we're a bunch of seniors! I wish I could see a way out, a way for this country to heal. But I don't think that is ever going to happen and I think we will see the demise of this country (or the complete destruction by weapons), maybe within our lifetimes. Divide and conquer. Great strategy.


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## Shalimar (Jan 7, 2017)

aeron said:


> I'm afraid that you have a very great deal to learn about Islam.
> 
> In England the same was being said about "Ali down the corner shop" years ago and then we found out that the same Ali and his mates were not the friendly harmless guys we thought they were.  The "terrorists" are the edge of the majority who approve of the aims of installing Islam in our world or at the very least don't condemn the MAJORITY who do.
> 
> ...


Wow, please do not patronise  me. As for the silent majority not speaking out, I have read/heard moderate Muslims from many countries, including America, Canada, and UK, on the news,  continuously, and vigorously condemning radical Islam/terrorism. Of course, sensationalism is much more ratings friendly, so they do not  receive the same coverage.The majority of the refugee clients  with whom I work  left their countries to escape terrorism. With respect, I am far more afraid of your bias than I am of them.


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## Shalimar (Jan 7, 2017)

Debby said:


> I think the difference aeron is that in Canada or even in the USA, we have a greater advantage in being able to do a lot better job of vetting because in order to get off the plane, they have to actually pass through Customs, etc., whereas in the EU or even Britain (up until recently) masses of refugee people have been pouring over borders everywhere with it being possible for bad people to hide in the crowd.  I would think that this makes a huge difference in the outcome.
> 
> Just this morning, our news was doing a one year update of one Syrian family who settled in Antigonish, Nova Scotia and not only did they start a chocolate company called Peace Chocolatiers that is thriving (in only one year) but they hired 10 more people from the community.  Their ambition is to start shops across Canada although they have no intention of leaving the community that welcomed them.


I read that story also, Debby. Heartwarming. I agree it is much easier for us here and in America to properly vet refugees  than in some other places. Still, it is wrong to paint all Muslims in a bad light for the behaviour of a minority.


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## WhatInThe (Jan 7, 2017)

*planned*

Some preliminary investigation notes. Killer apparently planned this out and had started selling personal possessions including his car. He was charged with trying to strangle his girl friend and had a pending court date in March. Suspect will also face federal charges because it was an international airport.

http://ktla.com/2017/01/07/fort-lau...er-came-here-specifically-to-attack-fbi-says/


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## Warrigal (Jan 7, 2017)

WhatInThe said:


> Some preliminary investigation notes. Killer apparently planned this out and had started selling personal possessions including his car. He was charged with trying to strangle his girl friend and had a pending court date in March. Suspect will also face federal charges because it was an international airport.
> 
> http://ktla.com/2017/01/07/fort-lau...er-came-here-specifically-to-attack-fbi-says/



So why was this man permitted to have possession of a firearm and ammunition ?


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## Warrigal (Jan 7, 2017)

Here is the answer to my question above



> Police in Alaska took a handgun from the man accused of a shooting at a Florida airport, but returned it to him last month after a medical evaluation found he was not mentally ill.
> 
> Esteban Santiago, a 26-year-old Iraq war veteran, had a history of acting erratically and investigators are probing whether mental illness played a role in the shooting that saw five people killed and six injured in a baggage claim area at Fort Lauderdale's international airport.Marlin Ritzman, special agent in charge of the FBI's Anchorage office, said Santiago walked into the office in November and told agents his mind was being controlled by a US intelligence agency.
> He was turned over to local police who took him to a medical facility for a mental evaluation.
> ...



I think I would have to agree with the brother.


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## Shalimar (Jan 7, 2017)

Warrigal said:


> Here is the answer to my question above
> 
> 
> 
> I think I would have to agree with the brother.


Me too, Warri.


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## WhatInThe (Jan 8, 2017)

Warrigal said:


> So why was this man permitted to have possession of a firearm and ammunition ?



Nothing was official yet. The strangulation case was in progress. After the FBI had him check into a hospital and was released days later there was no radical diagnosis. Going for psychological treatment doesn't make one unfit especially in the early stages because they don't even have a full assessment yet, apparently nothing presented at that time. This was in November. This transpired pretty fast. He probably should've have at least one follow up session with a doctor or prescribed some kind counseling especially being a vet but how soon should that follow up been.


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## Ray (Jan 9, 2017)

I recall there was a push to use the "no fly" list as a criterion for a gun permit awhile back. This shows the folly of that.


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## WhatInThe (Jan 11, 2017)

*Updates, Islam and New York*

Ft Lauderdale killer had converted to Islam years ago, possibly as early as 2007.

https://www.worldnewspolitics.com/2017/01/10/airport-shooter-converted-islam/

Killer might have been planning something in New York on NYE. He cancelled booked flight to NYC.

http://www.amny.com/news/esteban-sa...r-booked-flight-to-nyc-report-says-1.12914002


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## Stormy (Jan 14, 2017)

Thanks What In The I heard that he converted too and his name was found on My Space, I just wonder why the authorities weren't able to find this information on this Islamist terrorist or if they even tried.  Have any of the main stream TV news shows reported these findings if they did I missed it?


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## rt3 (Jan 14, 2017)

NSA isn't signed up with Facebook


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## WhatInThe (Jan 17, 2017)

*jihadi chatrooms*

Killer visited Jihadi chat rooms online months prior to attack.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/fl-court-tuesday-esteban-santiago-airport-20170117-story.html

Also after admission for evaluation in November he was prescribed anti anxiety medications and herbs, nothing else.


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