# New Fraud Activity



## imp (Jul 10, 2015)

Long story, but it's content might help some avoid my current unease. I got a new VISA card about 6 months ago, issued by our Credit Union, been a member since 1976. The card has a new feature, a readable "chip" on the card's FACE, not back, on which lies the typical magnetic strip. 

Got an automated call this AM, from card security, asking me to call them, urgent. I did. Seems the card was used yesterday to make two small McDonalds food purchases in Dearborn, MI. I told the guy, nope, haven't been in Michigan in 30 years. Then suspicions began arising. How did the card company suspect fraud? You can't give a McDonalds just a number, and get served, gotta have an actual CARD! So, somebody is making duplicate cards, even to the extent that the newest security feature, the chip, is embedded in it. 

Would the maker of a duplicate card test it at McDonalds? Or make a big, massive buy, something saleable for cash? Everybody knows ATMs are camera-protected, so likely not such uses. Or, rather, is the commercial maker of cards, maybe a contracted job by the bank, cranking out duplicate cards when issuing them for new accounts? If that, it would have to be an individual fairly high up in the Co. Or, do banks have machines which crank out the cards? Same deal there. Such duplicates could be sold on black market. I have often heard of poor credit risk folks being offered new cards, but requiring an up-front payment, like, $200. Such folks could be sent a duplicate card, "bought" it for $200, it not even being sold by a bank, but rather a counterfeiter. Use of such a card for small purchases might go unnoticed by the real account-holder, who might not even examine statements closely.

I'm telling this because, by chance, after being required to speak to IRS since my wife went on Obamacare, the IRS agent determined someone had used MY NAME and MY S/S number to file a tax return requesting a $7,000 + refund! HTH a guy in OK got that info on me, I have no idea. 

What do you think of this? Would you take further precautions, of some kind?    imp


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## SeaBreeze (Jul 10, 2015)

I don't know, but I think I would talk to the credit company once more and possible just close down that card.


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## Lon (Jul 10, 2015)

imp said:


> Long story, but it's content might help some avoid my current unease. I got a new VISA card about 6 months ago, issued by our Credit Union, been a member since 1976. The card has a new feature, a readable "chip" on the card's FACE, not back, on which lies the typical magnetic strip.
> 
> Got an automated call this AM, from card security, asking me to call them, urgent. I did. Seems the card was used yesterday to make two small McDonalds food purchases in Dearborn, MI. I told the guy, nope, haven't been in Michigan in 30 years. Then suspicions began arising. How did the card company suspect fraud? You can't give a McDonalds just a number, and get served, gotta have an actual CARD! So, somebody is making duplicate cards, even to the extent that the newest security feature, the chip, is embedded in it.
> 
> ...



My Chase credit card folks called me last month saying they suspected fraudulent activity on my card. It was only a $8.55 purchase in Portland Oregon. They caught it they said because I had not had any purchases out of California since December 2014. They canceled my card and sent me a new one via Fed ex. Pretty efficient.


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## imp (Jul 10, 2015)

After a bit of hassle, my being unable to hear the guy on the line clearly, my wife took over reluctantly, when I forced the phone into her hand. They cancelled the account, will send new card. I'm satisfied with it.

Next big question: Debit Cards. I heard often to never divulge a debit card number on-line or use it by giving the number out other than into a card reader. So, I called our other bank to inquire whether their debit card was fraud protected like their credit cards. Answer: YES. Exactly the same way. Satisfactory. But, to be sure, do not assume all banks operate similarly! Call and ask!   imp


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## Butterfly (Jul 11, 2015)

A couple years ago, one of my banks called me to ask if I had made a fairly large purchase that seemed very uncharacteristic of my spending history.  No, I had not.  (Thanks, bank, for catching that so early on.)  Anyway, they said they had sent me a new card because my other one was expiring.  I used that card so infrequently that I hadn't noticed it was near to expiration.  I never received that card, and evidently someone either stole it out of my mailbox or something, and had used it.  Of course, the bank canceled the card, refunded the charges to me, and sent me a new card.  I asked them to send it to my work address, but they said they had to send it to my billing address (I wanted it sent to my work so I'd be sure to get it).  At the time, I worked full time, and long hours, and often didn't pick up my mail till well into the evening.  It creeps me out to know that people go around taking cards out of mailboxes.

Nothing like that happened again, until just today, when I got a thing from another bank saying "here's your new pin for your new debit card."  What new debit card?  So I called and they told me  they thought their debit card info might have been hacked, so they were closing accounts and issuing new cards and numbers.  BUT, I never got the new card.  So, once again  they had to close that account and order me a new card.  I asked if they could expedite it, since they said the account I'd been using would be closed July 14.  They told me they couldn't expedite, because their cards came out of some third-party place that makes the cards.

I wish banks would notify you when they are sending out new cards, so you could watch for them and be aware if they didn't come in a reasonable time.  My bank protects their debit cards like they do their credit cards, so they'd refund fraudulent purchases, but why have to go thru all that hassle?  If they can send me an e-mail when my payment is coming due, why can't they send out a notice that they are sending out new cards??  GEEZ!


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## Ameriscot (Jul 11, 2015)

Debit cards in the UK are protected.  So is the debit card I have on a US account.  It's quite a pain though having to use my sister's address in the US on that account.  The cards go to her and when I had to have a card replaced because of fraudulent activity (quite sure it occurred at a restaurant in the US on a visit) she had to mail it to my organisations office in the capitol of Uganda as we couldn't trust the post there to get it to me all the way on the other side of the country!  And on this account there is never an ATM fee - always got reimbursed for those.  I'm sure they really loved me while I used this card in Uganda for a year and a half!


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## Mike (Jul 11, 2015)

I always tell people who do any internet purchases involving
Credit/Debit cards, to get another Bank Account, they cost
nothing.
I have one solely for buying online, it is a debit card attached
to an account, the limit on the card is the amount in the account,
I keep less than £100 on it at any time and usually a lot less.
The account is with the same bank as my main account and if I
want to buy something but there is not enough money on the card,
I just go to my online account and transfer enough in, it is done
instantly again at no cost.

Think about it, credit cards have a high limit that you can spend
up to, but a debit card has not.

Mike.


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## imp (Jul 11, 2015)

*"Think about it, credit cards have a high limit that you can spend
 up to, but a debit card has not."

*A good point! If the debit card draws from your checking account, it's limit which will be authorized is likely whatever happens to be in the account.

Brings up another question: when using my debit card, the clerk often asks whether I want it treated as a debit card or credit card(!?). What gives with that?   imp


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## Ameriscot (Jul 11, 2015)

imp said:


> *"Think about it, credit cards have a high limit that you can spend
> up to, but a debit card has not."
> 
> *A good point! If the debit card draws from your checking account, it's limit which will be authorized is likely whatever happens to be in the account.
> ...




I get that when I visit the US.  In the UK it's chip and pin so it doesn't matter if it's debit or credit. It's just your pin.


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## imp (Jul 11, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I get that when I visit the US.  In the UK it's chip and pin so it doesn't matter if it's debit or credit. It's just your pin.



It seems that use of the debit at a check-out invariably requires entry of the PIN, but not with a credit card. OTOH, the credit card used to get cash at an ATM always requires use of it's PIN. Some of my cards have never had a PIN issued at all.

Our big grocery stores here have gone to a system where purchases totaling under a specific amount, like about $50, require no signature. I have drawn gaping stares from customer and employee alike, when the machine asks for a signature, I doodle a squiggle, or an "X", sometimes a stick-drawing of a lantern; it always accepts, displaying "Signature Accepted". Actually, a ridiculous way to guarantee to pay!    imp


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## Ameriscot (Jul 11, 2015)

imp said:


> It seems that use of the debit at a check-out invariably requires entry of the PIN, but not with a credit card. OTOH, the credit card used to get cash at an ATM always requires use of it's PIN. Some of my cards have never had a PIN issued at all.
> 
> Our big grocery stores here have gone to a system where purchases totaling under a specific amount, like about $50, require no signature. I have drawn gaping stares from customer and employee alike, when the machine asks for a signature, I doodle a squiggle, or an "X", sometimes a stick-drawing of a lantern; it always accepts, displaying "Signature Accepted". Actually, a ridiculous way to guarantee to pay!    imp



We haven't done signatures in the UK for about a decade.  We've been doing chip and pin.  So anywhere we shop whether it's debit or credit card it's with a pin.  We've also got the touch and go on some cards for purchases under £20.  You just tap the card on the machine.  Bingo.


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## Mike (Jul 11, 2015)

imp said:


> *"Think about it, credit cards have a high limit that you can spend
> up to, but a debit card has not."
> 
> *A good point! If the debit card draws from your checking account, it's limit which will be authorized is likely whatever happens to be in the account.
> ...




Well Imp, you bring up a couple of very good points:-
We don't have chequing accounts any more, if you want a cheque,
then you have to buy one, either from the bank, (expensive) or get
a Postal Order, from the Post Office, (much cheaper), so there is no
authorised withdrawal limit, only what you have in the account.

As for being asked if you want to use it as a credit or a debit card,
that is a new one on me, again over here, the two don't mix on one
card, you get either a debit or a credit card.

Debit cards are tied to an account, credit cards are not, they are tied
to you and your address, you can have a credit card without a bank
account I believe, though probably the small print will not allow this,
I am not really sure about that.

Mike.


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## imp (Jul 11, 2015)

Mike said:


> Well Imp, you bring up a couple of very good points:-
> *We don't have chequing accounts any more*, if you want a cheque,
> then you have to buy one, either from the bank, (expensive) or get
> a Postal Order, from the Post Office, (much cheaper), so there is no
> ...



Mike, Most interesting about no checks! (OK if I use my accustomed to spelling?   ).  We still have them, and in my own case, by hanging on to the same account since 1976, I have "grandfathered"-in no fee checking, no strings attached. The bank (actually a Credit Union, have you those over there?), did away with the no-fee long ago, but evidently valued our business enough to allow it to continue, though they have asked from time to time if we would care to change, offering interest-bearing, etc. 

I do not exactly know what the intent is, regard the clerk asking if I wanted debit or credit; it's a debit card, stated clearly on it's front, and use of it debits my checking account, no credit involved. However, as I understand her, using it as "credit" removes the request for a PIN entry! Crazy and crazier!

On the last point, I believe it is a non-account "credit card" that Red spoke of, above; they sell these under the familiar VISA or MASTERCARD logos in our grocery chains. You buy the card full-price up-front, (likely including a fee, but maybe not), then carry it as you would any plastic, using it until it's purchase price is exhausted. This would be an excellent way to thwart "hacking" and/or identity theft, IMO.    imp


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## Kadee (Jul 11, 2015)

Friday night on our current affair program they had a segment about a new scam to hit Australia where people are phoning asking for an immediate settlement on an outstanding tax debt or the police will be there within half an hour to arrest them !!
The man who reported the scam to Channel nine was fairly quick off the mark and recorded the conversation from the scammer on his mobile phone by placing it next to the land line phone on speaker phone 
Apperently some have been so frightened they have paid up to Ten thousand to them 
maybe to many are now aware of the Microsoft scam and they have had to work out a new scam to scare people into parting with their cash they sounded really aggressive on the call that was recorded..


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## imp (Jul 11, 2015)

Disgusting parasites, preying on the unsuspecting......

imp


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## Ameriscot (Jul 12, 2015)

Mike said:


> Well Imp, you bring up a couple of very good points:-
> We don't have chequing accounts any more, if you want a cheque,
> then you have to buy one, either from the bank, (expensive) or get
> a Postal Order, from the Post Office, (much cheaper), so there is no
> ...



I have a chequing account here.  I write maybe 1 or 2 cheques a year.  I had to write one for the cottage we rented a couple of weeks ago in Oban.  

In the US you are asked whether your card if debit or credit, or you can call it credit on your debit card since your debit card normally has Visa/MC on it as well.  I find it really annoying to shop in the US now as it's not nearly convenient as here.


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## Mike (Jul 12, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> I have a chequing account here.  I write maybe 1 or 2 cheques a year.  I had to write one for the cottage we rented a couple of weeks ago in Oban.
> 
> In the US you are asked whether your card if debit or credit, or you can call it credit on your debit card since your debit card normally has Visa/MC on it as well.  I find it really annoying to shop in the US now as it's not nearly convenient as here.



I think that you have a choice, but the banks prefer
if you don't have a cheque book, I haven't had one
15 years at least.

Mike.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 12, 2015)

Mike said:


> I think that you have a choice, but the banks prefer
> if you don't have a cheque book, I haven't had one
> 15 years at least.
> 
> Mike.



My bank doesn't object.


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## Butterfly (Jul 12, 2015)

imp said:


> *"Think about it, credit cards have a high limit that you can spend
> up to, but a debit card has not."
> 
> *A good point! If the debit card draws from your checking account, it's limit which will be authorized is likely whatever happens to be in the account.
> ...





Imp, it has to do with  the amounts the merchant has to pay the bank for the privilege of accepting their cards.  I believe that the bank charges them more per transaction if it is a credit card than if it's a debit card, but it might be the other way round.  Been so long I can't remember for sure.  But if definitely has to do with what the bank charges the merchant per transaction.


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## Mike (Jul 12, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> Imp, it has to do with  the amounts the merchant has to pay the bank for the privilege of accepting their cards.  I believe that the bank charges them more per transaction if it is a credit card than if it's a debit card, but it might be the other way round.  Been so long I can't remember for sure.  But if definitely has to do with what the bank charges the merchant per transaction.



You are correct Butterfly, over here it is 3% on credit card transactions,
you don't pay that, it is deducted from the amount that the trader receives.

There is no charge for using a debit card.

Mike.


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## Ameriscot (Jul 23, 2015)

Writer said:


> There is a lot of fraud with these kinds of cards. They suggest that you watch merchants using them and make sure they aren't swipping them twice - once on the machine you pay with and another time on a machine under the counter that duplicates the cards. I've had mine stolen before and now I make sure I watch like a hawk!



A good reason for having chip and pin instead of swiping.  The clerk doesn't even touch your card.


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## nitelite (Jun 9, 2016)

Call me 'Old School'.... I use cash. I do have a debit and credit card that both are kept, in seclusion, at home.


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