# I Value Correct Spelling And Grammar



## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

As a Pedant I am easily riled by those in the community who have no idea about the correct use of Apostrophes.
Did they not learn about Apostrophes?
The rules concerning the use of apostrophes in written English are very simple:

They are used to denote a missing letter or letters, for example:
I can't instead of I cannot
I don't instead of I do not
it's instead of it is or it has

They are used to denote possession, for example:
the dog's bone
the company's logo
Jones's bakery (but Joneses' bakery if owned by more than one Jones)

Apostrophes are NEVER ever used to denote plurals! Common examples of such abuse are:
Banana's for sale which of course should read Bananas for sale
Menu's printed to order which should read Menus printed to order
1000's of bargains here! which should read 1000s of bargains here!
New CD's just in! which should read New CDs just in!

Let's raise the standard of written correspondence and show that we are all cognisant of the English Language.


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## Shero (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> As a Pedant I am easily riled by those in the community who have no idea about the correct use of Apostrophes.
> Did they not learn about Apostrophes?
> The rules concerning the use of apostrophes in written English are very simple:
> 
> ...



Please give me a break!!! I am French, born inn Hawaii, travelled the world and at present marooned in beautiful Australia. Take what I give or do not read my posts


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

Shero said:


> Please give me a break!!! I am French, born inn Hawaii, travelled the world and at present marooned in beautiful Australia. Take what I give or do not read my posts


 There are always allowances given to those such as yourself.
I am directing this to those bought up with an English Education. Truce?


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## timoc (Oct 26, 2021)

Oh dear, me being a bit thick, I shall make my way to the corner of the room and don my dunce's hat.


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## Shero (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> There are always allowances given to those such as yourself.
> I am directing this to those bought up with an English Education. Truce?


'Such as myself"? do not make allowances for me please. I have gotten by so far and I dont need allowances. I speak fluent English, French, some Spanish, German and Italian. I'm happy


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## Shero (Oct 26, 2021)

timoc said:


> Oh dear, me being a bit thick, I shall make my way to the corner of the room and don my dunce's hat.


you can have one of mine Tim


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## timoc (Oct 26, 2021)

Shero said:


> 'Such as myself"? do not make allowances for me please. I have gotten by so far and I dont need allowances. I speak fluent English, French, some Spanish, German and Italian. I'm happy


Wow, clever girl, after a few snifters of a good single malt I become fluent in Klingon.


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

timoc said:


> Oh dear, me being a bit thick, I shall make my way to the corner of the room and don my dunce's hat.


I like a person who knows his place


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

Shero said:


> 'Such as myself"? do not make allowances for me please. I have gotten by so far and I dont need allowances. I speak fluent English, French, some Spanish, German and Italian. I'm happy


Yeah, I am multilingual as well.
Speaking English, Australian _and _Tasmanian


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## Gary O' (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> it's instead of it is or it has


That's always thrown me.

I've always considered* it's* showed ownership, only.

Not until recently did I find out *it's *was in place of *it is* or *it has*

 Soooooo, where does* its* go?
Ownership?


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## timoc (Oct 26, 2021)

I am out of my depth here, I'm surrounded by clever folks who can yodel out all kinds of lingos, whereas me, I am only comfortable talking gibberish, bluddee 'ell, I'll have to open another bottle.


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> That's always thrown me.
> 
> I've always considered* it's* showed ownership, only.
> 
> ...


Belonging to or associated with a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
"turn the camera on its side"


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## Glory Bee (Oct 26, 2021)

Even though I appreciate what you are saying I personally do not think it is good to make others feel less intelligent. Live and let live is my motto. Not everyone might have had the same education that you did.  I think compassion, being sincere and kindness is more important.  But what do I know.


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## dobielvr (Oct 26, 2021)

timoc said:


> I am out of my depth here, I'm surrounded by clever folks who can yodel out all kinds of lingos, whereas me, I am only comfortable talking gibberish, bluddee 'ell, I'll have to open another bottle.


You're fine....just keep being you!


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## Shero (Oct 26, 2021)

timoc said:


> I am out of my depth here, I'm surrounded by clever folks who can yodel out all kinds of lingos, whereas me, I am only comfortable talking gibberish, bluddee 'ell, I'll have to open another bottle.


save me a glass


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## Gary O' (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Belonging to or associated with a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
> "turn the camera on its side"


Yup
Just the opposite of what I'd thought


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## Gary O' (Oct 26, 2021)

Glory Bee said:


> Even though I appreciate what you are saying I personally do not think it is good to make others feel less intelligent. Live and let live is my motto. Not everyone might have had the same education that you did. I think compassion, being sincere and kindness is more important.


Heh, had a guy at our little corporation that had quite the accent.

A fellow worker mentioned to me *'he sure speaks funny'*
Told him, *'yeah, he speaks funny in nine different languages'*


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## timoc (Oct 26, 2021)

Shero said:


> save me a glass


You'll have to swig out of mine......


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## Shero (Oct 26, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> That's always thrown me.
> 
> I've always considered* it's* showed ownership, only.
> 
> ...


Here you are Gary Mr Ganesh to the rescue:


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## Shero (Oct 26, 2021)

timoc said:


> You'll have to swig out of mine......


how about I get you some crystal goblets for Christmas  or I could wear a mask!


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## Gary O' (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Let's raise the standard of written correspondence and show that we are all *cognisant* of the English Language


Can't be too anal about the English language.
It's a bastard of many mother tongues.
And evolves...

Spelling can be a poser at times

Take the word* cognizant* for example


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## win231 (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> As a Pedant I am easily riled by those in the community who have no idea about the correct use of Apostrophes.
> Did they not learn about Apostrophes?
> The rules concerning the use of apostrophes in written English are very simple:
> 
> ...


B-B-But can you write a few words in French?


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## timoc (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> I like a person who knows his place


Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, we are a school of not perfectly linguistic scholars here, but we rub along brilliantly, and my place is here amongst people who don't have big heads.


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## win231 (Oct 26, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Can't be too anal about the English language.
> It's a bastard of many mother tongues.
> And evolves...
> 
> ...


I was curious about that one.  
What is the English spelling of Cognizant?
*Cognisant* is safe to say British English and the 'z' variant is American English.


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## Shero (Oct 26, 2021)

timoc said:


> Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, we are a school of not perfectly linguistic scholars here, but we rub along brilliantly, and my place is here amongst people who don't have big heads.


timoc for you


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

Glory Bee said:


> Even though I appreciate what you are saying I personally do not think it is good to make others feel less intelligent. Live and let live is my motto. Not everyone might have had the same education that you did.  I think compassion, being sincere and kindness is more important.  But what do I know.


It is not my intention to renounce anyone. I am simply writing this for educational purposes. In a light hearted manner  


win231 said:


> B-B-But can you write a few word in French?
> 
> 
> win231 said:
> ...


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## Shero (Oct 26, 2021)

The English language was derived from West Germanic dialects and many words taken from French also and the Indian language!


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## timoc (Oct 26, 2021)

Shero said:


> how about I get you some crystal goblets for Christmas  or I could wear a mask!


I'd prefer a bottle (or two) of 16 year old Aberlour, and a packet of crisps.


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## oldpop (Oct 26, 2021)

I mean no offense to anyone. There is so much going on this planet right now that proper grammar and spelling are the least of my worries. If I can understand what another person is trying to communicate to me then all is well. Writing academic, scientific and technical papers/data is different it has to be correct or you will get an F. It is JMO but I firmly believe in not sweating the small stuff and keeping things simple....................


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## Warrigal (Oct 26, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> That's always thrown me.
> 
> I've always considered* it's* showed ownership, only.
> 
> ...


Yes Gary. There is an anomaly with respect to it's and its. The first (it's) is used for a contraction and the second (its) is used to show possession.


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## Gary O' (Oct 26, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Yes Gary. There is an anomaly with respect to it's and its. The first (it's) is used for a contraction and the second (its) is used to show possession.


Sure turned me around.


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## timoc (Oct 26, 2021)

All these it ises and it'ses are doing my head in, I prefer a simple itsy, have a listen.....


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## Warrigal (Oct 26, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Can't be too anal about the English language.
> It's a bastard of many mother tongues.
> And evolves...
> 
> ...


Yep. I would spell it cognisant with S pronounced 'ess' instead of Z (pronounced in OZ as 'zed')


Gary O' said:


> Sure turned me around.


Some people think we should get rid of apostrophes altogether.
I doubt it would make much difference to understanding because we have no difficulty sorting out the meaning in conversations when we cannot see where the little mark is located.


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## Geezerette (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick, I must confess that when I see an apostrophe used to show plural as in several of your examples, I do make a silent judgement about what kind of education the person writing it might have had.I console myself by imagining that they were trying to do what they thought was  the right thing.  And some folks here are inclined to take things personally instead of leaving some things at arms length on the academic or theoretical level that was intended.


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

Geezerette said:


> Bretrick, I must confess that when I see an apostrophe used to show plural as in several of your examples, I do make a silent judgement about what kind of education the person writing it might have had.I console myself by imagining that they were trying to do what they thought was  the right thing.  And some folks here are inclined to take things personally instead of leaving some things at arms length on the academic or theoretical level that was intended.


I understand what you are saying. 
All is okay and I want to say so far I am enjoying my time here. A whole twenty hours to date.


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## JimBob1952 (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> As a Pedant I am easily riled by those in the community who have no idea about the correct use of Apostrophes.
> Did they not learn about Apostrophes?
> The rules concerning the use of apostrophes in written English are very simple:
> 
> ...



You shouldn't capitalize pedant or apostrophes. They are common rather than proper nouns.  Similarly, it's the English language, not the English Language.  

Sorry, but the tone of your post was so smug I just had to point that out.


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## oldpop (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick you got me thinking now........ I really get riled when I try to read the news and the article is written so bad I can't make hide nor hair out of it.


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## Gary O' (Oct 26, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Some people think we should get rid of apostrophes altogether.
> I doubt it would make much difference to understanding because we have no difficulty sorting out the meaning in conversations when we cannot see where the little mark is located.


Very true
Especially when corresponding with the younger (cell phone poking) folks.

But
I'm in favor of retaining what we can
Apostrophes have their place
...unless using single quote marks along with 'em.....he said.....  * 'it's'* instead of its


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## palides2021 (Oct 26, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> That's always thrown me.
> 
> I've always considered* it's* showed ownership, only.
> 
> ...


Yes!


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## palides2021 (Oct 26, 2021)

I've started relying on Grammarly to fix any grammar errors. It came with my school (yes, I'm still going to college in my sixties).
I just click on that in my Word file and it shows me my errors. Not that I have that many...just joking.


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## Harry Le Hermit (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> As a Pedant


Nice exercise!


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## Irwin (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> As a Pedant I am easily riled by those in the community who have no idea about the correct use of Apostrophes.
> Did they not learn about Apostrophes?
> 
> Let's raise the standard of written correspondence and show that we are all cognisant of the English Language.


Why are _pedant _and _apostrophes _capitalized in your post? Is that based on an Australian syntax rule? 

And "cognisant" is spelled cognizant in the U.S. Perhaps another Australian peculiarity.


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Why are Pedant and Apostrophes capitalized? Is that based on an Australian syntax rule?
> 
> And cognisant is spelled cognizant in the U.S. Perhaps another Australian peculiarity.


I have already been dragged over the coals for those two errors. They should not be capitalised  
cognisant is UK English, cognizant is American English


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## Harry Le Hermit (Oct 26, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> Nice exercise!


Should have said nice sociology exercise. How's it going thus far?


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## MarciKS (Oct 26, 2021)

timoc said:


> Oh dear, me being a bit thick, I shall make my way to the corner of the room and don my dunce's hat.


i'll b sittin with u. LOL!


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## Alligatorob (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> As a Pedant I am easily riled by those in the community who have no idea about the correct use of Apostrophes.


Ain't that som'in - y'all I think I'm in trouble...


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

Harry Le Hermit said:


> Should have said nice sociology exercise. How's it going thus far?


I have been drawn over the coals a few times, but I am resilient


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Ain't that som'in - y'all I think I'm in trouble...


You're good, this time around


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## Irwin (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> It is not my intention to renounce anyone. I am simply writing this for educational purposes. In a light hearted manner


I think you meant denounce — not renounce. Renounce means 'to give up something.' Denounce is to publicly criticize.


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I think you meant denounce — not renounce. Renounce means 'to give up something.' Denounce is to publicly criticize.


Having a bad day today   Blame it on the cocktail of drugs I am on for my broken ankle


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## jujube (Oct 26, 2021)

Whenever I run into the Grammar Police, I always pat them softly and say, "there, their, they're" in a soothing tone.

I do try to write correctly at all times.....and I emphasize "try" as I'm as likely to go astray on occasions....but I can't see the reason to correct someone else's punctuation or spelling.  Some folks do the best they can and I appreciate what they have to say.  HOWEVER, if you correct someone else's grammar and make a mistake yourself.......it's open season and I'm loaded for bear.


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## Irwin (Oct 26, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Having a bad day today   Blame it on the cocktail of drugs I am on for my broken ankle


That's okay. I'm just messin' with ya.


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## Bretrick (Oct 26, 2021)

jujube said:


> Whenever I run into the Grammar Police, I always pat them softly and say, "there, their, they're" in a soothing tone.
> 
> I do try to write correctly at all times.....and I emphasize "try" as I'm as likely to go astray on occasions....but I can't see the reason to correct someone else's punctuation or spelling.  Some folks do the best they can and I appreciate what they have to say.  HOWEVER, if you correct someone else's grammar and make a mistake yourself.......it's open season and I'm loaded for bear.


Which I have found out today. Several mistakes by me on this post has seen me drawn over the coals.
I am resilient, I will continue on....


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## Furryanimal (Oct 26, 2021)

My problem is i used to teach in Primary Schools teaching English every day..so i spot a spelling error or grammatical mistake a mile off.
I let them pass.
I know i have got sloppy since i stopped teaching...i don’t care.
And spell checker seems to want to put ‘s in all the time even when it’s wrong .
Now if i could just cure myself of thinking a word then writing the next one,or actually bothering to proofread what i’ve just written i might get somewhere.
I do get bothered when my Ukrainian friend uses English words i have never heard of...but that is another matter entirely .


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## mrstime (Oct 26, 2021)

Gee and I wonder about people who don't know the difference between lose and loose, then and than. However I am also convinced that there are times when people don't hear the words properly, and so spell words as they hear them. So I'm not going to knock anyone just because I can hear better.


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## JimBob1952 (Oct 27, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> You shouldn't capitalize pedant or apostrophes. They are common rather than proper nouns.  Similarly, it's the English language, not the English Language.
> 
> Sorry, but the tone of your post was so smug I just had to point that out.



I notice you gave me a thumbs up, which indicates that you are a good sport, like every other Aussie I've ever met.  Welcome to SF and I look forward to your contributions!


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## Gardenlover (Oct 27, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> As a Pedant I am easily riled by those in the community who have no idea about the correct use of Apostrophes.
> Did they not learn about Apostrophes?
> The rules concerning the use of apostrophes in written English are very simple:
> 
> ...


What's the rule when the word used shows ownership and is also plural?

The cat knew it was the dogs' territory but it didn't care.


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## Capt Lightning (Oct 27, 2021)

I like a fishmonger who knows his plaice.


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 27, 2021)

I do the best I can but things seem to be getting worse.

Some days I feel like even my phone is turning against me.  I have to read, reread, and edit every post I make in an effort to correct both of our mistakes.

IMO communication and understanding are more important than proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling.


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## hollydolly (Oct 27, 2021)

mrstime said:


> Gee and I wonder about people who don't know the difference between lose and loose, then and than. However I am also convinced that there are times when people don't hear the words properly, and so spell words as they hear them. So I'm not going to knock anyone just because I can hear better.


or my  particular annoyance is Of instead of Have.....


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## Paco Dennis (Oct 27, 2021)

@Bretrick I was put  ahead  in grade school. I tested very high in visual-spatial, and math. I scored about the "D" level in languge and comprehension. In the Accelerated Learning Class in did well in those things but did terrible in grammar and speed reading. The point is I have a terrible time with the English language. So I need a pass with you...I am afraid any response I have will be annoying to you.?
  Now I am going to be self- conscious and hestitant to be myself here.


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## RadishRose (Oct 27, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> continue on


You seem fond of redundancies.
You also wrote "written correspondence". Is there any other kind?


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## Paco Dennis (Oct 27, 2021)

Oh, I just thought of a question for you. How do you respond to James Joyce's "Finnegan's Wake" or "Ulysses"?


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## RadishRose (Oct 27, 2021)

jujube said:


> "there, their, they're" in a soothing tone.


That's funny!


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## jet (Oct 27, 2021)

way i look at it,if you understand what i write,why worry about good grammer,,


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## Della (Oct 27, 2021)

I just today got corrected on another board for saying Cinderella's ugly step-sisters were falsely flirtatious. What I meant was they flirted with all the men at the ball, whether or not they liked them.

I was quoted and informed that I was wrong,  their flirting was in earnest, it was _they_ who were false.

Yes.  I was wrong, even though English is my first language and I thought I was well informed regarding the Cinderella story.  I shan't return to that forum until they start discussing, "Snow White."


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## win231 (Oct 27, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Having a bad day today   Blame it on the cocktail of drugs I am on for my broken ankle


That ain't no excuse for poor grammar - which is practically a crime.


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## palides2021 (Oct 27, 2021)

oldpop said:


> Bretrick you got me thinking now........ I really get riled when I try to read the news and the article is written so bad I can't make hide nor hair out of it.


Good point! I'm noticing also how badly some articles are written, and I think they are paying freelancers from other countries to write those articles. If an article or essay is badly written, it makes me, the reader, sit back and wonder about the validity of the article in the first place.


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## hollydolly (Oct 27, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> Good point! I'm noticing also how badly some articles are written, and I think they are paying freelancers from other countries to write those articles. *If an article or essay is badly written, it makes me, the reader, sit back and wonder about the validity of the article in the first place.*


That's precisely how I feel too...


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## feywon (Oct 27, 2021)

Glory Bee said:


> Even though I appreciate what you are saying I personally do not think it is good to make others feel less intelligent. Live and let live is my motto. Not everyone might have had the same education that you did.  I think compassion, being sincere and kindness is more important.  But what do I know.


Agreed. While i'm fairly nitpicky about my own posts, on social media i cut others  lot of slack. If their meaning is unclear i can ask.


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## feywon (Oct 27, 2021)

I hold businesses, professionals to higher standards.  For decades grammar & spelling errors in newspaper stories have annoyed me. i can overlook poor grammar in a headline since brevity is called for, but not in the body of a story.

When it comes to individuals, in everyday life and on social media i don't expect as much unless the person in question adopts a smarter than everyone else attitude, implies their opinon carries more weight because they are better educated.   The most important thing to me is clarity.  Sometimes colloquial language more directly and clearly represents how someone feels about a topic.

And the wonderful thing about language is it allows us to ask questions if in doubt about another poster's meaning.


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## feywon (Oct 27, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Which I have found out today. Several mistakes by me on this post has seen me drawn over the coals.
> I am resilient, I will continue on....


That's what happens when someone climbs on a high horse, it is easier to knock them off because all humans make mistakes.


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## Lewkat (Oct 27, 2021)

Often, people begin typing and are thinking ahead of themselves making typos and winding up with incomplete thoughts.  We are not all proof readers or editors and I am guilty of what I just typed and much more.  

So, arrest me.


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## Mr. Ed (Oct 27, 2021)

I use Pro Writing Aide application software. Requires paid subscription.


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## RadishRose (Oct 27, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> Often, people begin typing and are thinking ahead of themselves making typos and winding up with incomplete thoughts.  We are not all proof readers or editors and I am guilty of what I just typed and much more.
> 
> So, arrest me.


No worry Lewkat.

The OP is certainly not qualified to press charges nor is anyone else here.

If you go to jail I'll go with you!


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## Devi (Oct 27, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> or my  particular annoyance is Of instead of Have.....


One of mine, too. "Of" is NOT a verb.

"I could of left" <= where is the verb?
"I could have left."

As to communication, we all can make mistakes in writing, but correct grammar and spelling IS communication that is less likely to be misconstrued. But, oh well.


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## Bretrick (Oct 27, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> I notice you gave me a thumbs up, which indicates that you are a good sport, like every other Aussie I've ever met.  Welcome to SF and I look forward to your contributions!


Thank you for welcoming me here.
I thank everyone who responds to my posts because they are interacting with me. They are offering advice and insight.
My acknowledgement shows them that I did view their post, I did take their post onboard and it shows that I don't sweat the small stuff.
My initial post was sort of tongue in cheek because I realise the the English language is fraught with inconsistencies and unless one really studies the language then most people are going to slip up Periodically.


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## Bretrick (Oct 27, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> I do the best I can but things seem to be getting worse.
> 
> Some days I feel like even my phone is turning against me.  I have to read, reread, and edit every post I make in an effort to correct both of our mistakes.
> 
> IMO communication and understanding are more important than proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling.


Spellcheck applications do make it so much easier. Far from making us lazy it simply speeds up our proofreading by highlighting the errors.


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## Devi (Oct 27, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> My initial post was sort of tongue in cheek because I realise the the English language is fraught with inconsistencies and unless one really studies the language then most people are going to slip up Periodically.


This gets us when we watch British TV shows and movies. Sometimes we're just missing definitions (we go look them up in a British dictionary). But it's not as fast as watching something in American English.


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## Bretrick (Oct 27, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> @Bretrick I was put  ahead  in grade school. I tested very high in visual-spatial, and math. I scored about the "D" level in languge and comprehension. In the Accelerated Learning Class in did well in those things but did terrible in grammar and speed reading. The point is I have a terrible time with the English language. So I need a pass with you...I am afraid any response I have will be annoying to you.?
> Now I am going to be self- conscious and hestitant to be myself here.


Far from being annoying, I value our interaction.
My post was more tongue in cheek and meant , in part, as a way to introduce myself here and to also enable members to interact with each other.
Objective achieved I think. This is the 79th response to my thread.
I too skipped a class in Primary School, though it was so long ago I do not recall which one I skipped. Most likely grade 3 or 4.
I am sure it was after the Moon landing.
Anyway, as smart as the teachers thought I was, things went down hill over the coming years with a bad home situation, I struggled with schooling for the rest of the time I was there.
But here I am, about to turn 60. Most of those years have been forgotten and I have plundered through life knowing that eventually all will be revealed. All one has to do is be receptive to what is revealed. Believe me, I am receptive to the wonders of this world and am finally finding contentment with my lot in life.
I strayed a bit there from the gist of this post but what does it matter?
Thank you for contributing to my post and I wish you a wonderful day.


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## Bretrick (Oct 27, 2021)

Lewkat said:


> Often, people begin typing and are thinking ahead of themselves making typos and winding up with incomplete thoughts.  We are not all proof readers or editors and I am guilty of what I just typed and much more.
> 
> So, arrest me.


Just go to the naughty corner for 1 hour.
That should suffice, for now


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## caroln (Oct 27, 2021)

I majored in English, Bretrick, so I feel your pain.  My pet peeve is when people leave out commas and periods in a long post.  It just runs on and on and the whole post makes no sense whatsoever.


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## Bretrick (Oct 27, 2021)

caroln said:


> I majored in English, Bretrick, so I feel your pain.  My pet peeve is when people leave out commas and periods in a long post.  It just runs on and on and the whole post makes no sense whatsoever.


So true. Trying to read those posts is rather difficult and I sometimes lose my way with them.
Which leads me to give up on trying to read them.


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## jerry old (Oct 27, 2021)

well, well, well the erudite have come among us-again.
im supposing we should tell him communication in writing, speaking are the ingredients of communication

wondering did he ever attend a faculty tea where alleged highbrows spewed cerebral poo, meaning nothing-wonder?

squiggles and smirks are important-when learning how it's done.

here's a bunch of  THEM squiggles ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, .......................... ??????????? and a supply of words which can be used to corrects folks squiggles:
I"""""ts me, it be i  IT BE US     him    her      usings
there are books on various languages, called grammer that show us how to do this proper like

wonder does he pace the floor at nights worrying about splitting his infinitives-i know i do


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## Paco Dennis (Oct 27, 2021)

Ok, I got ya...Freedom Rains


----------



## palides2021 (Oct 27, 2021)

Mr. Ed said:


> I use Pro Writing Aide application software. Requires paid subscription.


Mr. Ed, I use that too, but I also use Grammarly. Each one catches typos differently, I found.


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## Ruthanne (Oct 27, 2021)

I value it too but of course don't always see it.


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## fmdog44 (Oct 27, 2021)

What is the difference between "Subjects are *a*waiting trial," and "Subjects are waiting trial."


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## horseless carriage (Oct 27, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> That's always thrown me.
> 
> I've always considered* it's* showed ownership, only.
> 
> ...


My spellchecker has heebie jeebies over its and it's, but it's easy enough Gary when you know where the apostrophe is used:
"Its" refers to the possessive form of the pronoun "it." For example, when referring to a pair of shoes, you might say, "That's not its box." Meanwhile, "it's" is the contraction for the words "it is" or "it has." For example, "It's (it is) going to be a fabulous night" or "It's (it has) been a fabulous night."
Has anyone noticed how punctuation that should be inside parenthesis often remain outside, (usually a full stop).
There is a trend of late to start a sentence with a conjunction. How often do you see a sentence like this:
"So, there I was, phone in hand, not paying attention........" The word 'so' is a conjunction, meaning a joining word, starting a sentence with a conjunction is poor grammar. 
My English teacher was a stickler for grammar, using the word no instead of any would get you marked down. For example:
"I don't want no pudding." Technically speaking, since two negatives cancel each other out, saying, "I don't want no pudding" means that you do want pudding. Instead, the sentence should read, "I don't want pudding" or, "I don't want any pudding." 
There was a temptation to end with, so now you know, to see if you are all paying attention at the back. Remember, never start a sentence with a conjunction.


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## Devi (Oct 27, 2021)

Well, _I_ want pudding. Does that count?


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## Gary O' (Oct 27, 2021)

horseless carriage said:


> Remember, never start a sentence with a conjunction.





horseless carriage said:


> My English teacher was a stickler for grammar, using the word no instead of any would get you marked down. For example:
> "I don't want no pudding." Technically speaking, since two negatives cancel each other out, saying, "I don't want no pudding" means that you do want pudding. Instead, the sentence should read, "I don't want pudding" or, "I don't want any pudding."


Well, I appreciate the effort, @horseless carriage, but for me, it don't make no never mind


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## Della (Oct 27, 2021)

_The new avatar of Paco Dennis.  Heeee!_


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## David777 (Oct 27, 2021)

I often had to read much technology and science during my career, and write test procedures and documents others could follow.  So my vocabulary, spelling, and grammar is not only strong but I have a compulsive habit to edit and correct most mistakes or vagueness I later notice in my web posts.  That noted, it does not bother me or slow me down reading others informal web written mistakes.


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## Warrigal (Oct 27, 2021)

Furryanimal said:


> My problem is i used to teach in Primary Schools teaching English every day..so i spot a spelling error or grammatical mistake a mile off.
> I let them pass.
> I know i have got sloppy since i stopped teaching...i don’t care.
> And spell checker seems to want to put ‘s in all the time even when it’s wrong .
> ...


I note that you don't capitalise the first person pronoun "I". Why not?


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## Warrigal (Oct 27, 2021)

palides2021 said:


> Good point! I'm noticing also how badly some articles are written, and I think they are paying freelancers from other countries to write those articles. If an article or essay is badly written, it makes me, the reader, sit back and wonder about the validity of the article in the first place.


I have to disagree. I find professional writers from other countries, by which I take it that you mean non English speaking countries, usually write in meticulously perfect English. 

For my part, I am a bit obstinate about always using UK spelling, even on a US forum. I refuse to use jail for gaol and I use the suffix -ise all the time instead of -ize. US English has been colonising Australian English for decades and I know that I am fighting a losing battle, but I am declaring my roots by using my chosen spelling.


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## Shero (Oct 27, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> My initial post was sort of tongue in cheek because I realise the the English language is fraught with inconsistencies and unless one really studies the language then most people are going to slip up Periodically.


.
Why did you capitalize the  P in periodically? Not necessary to do so.


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## Shero (Oct 27, 2021)

Today I have a little tummy ache, I ate too many scones yesterday, it is all the sconeses fault!


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## Meanderer (Oct 27, 2021)

My parents were always quite willing to raise my allowance.


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## Alligatorob (Oct 27, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> I find professional writers from other countries, by which I take it that you mean non English speaking countries, usually write in meticulously perfect English.


It's been my experience too.  I am an engineer and as I got older I reviewed more engineering reports and wrote fewer.  Engineers do not generally write very well, however I found most immigrant engineers from non-English speaking countries wrote a lot better than most native American engineers.  I believe it is because they carefully studied English and learned things correctly.  Us Mericans just assume we knows...


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## Lewkat (Oct 27, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Well, I appreciate the effort, @horseless carriage, but for me, it don't make no never mind


But, I do it all the time Gary.  tsk, tsk.


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## Warrigal (Oct 27, 2021)

David777 said:


> I often had to read much technology and science during my career, and write test procedures and documents others could follow.  So my vocabulary, spelling, and grammar is not only strong but I have a compulsive habit to edit and correct most mistakes or vagueness I later notice in my web posts.  That noted, it does not bother me or slow me down reading others informal web written mistakes.


I hate it when I post something with errors that I should have picked up. Sometimes they are the result of faulty editing where I have left a word in that should have been deleted or left out a word that should have been inserted. Sometimes I've made a genuine spelling mistake, sometimes it is just because I'm  a lousy typist. When I see my own errors I am driven to correct them. Can't get over the lessons learned as a teen but the only time I want to correct the mistakes of others is when they are made by professional signwriters. No excuse for that. A pocket dictionary would avoid these errors.


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## Lewkat (Oct 27, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> No worry Lewkat.
> 
> The OP is certainly not qualified to press charges nor is anyone else here.
> 
> If you go to jail I'll go with you!


Jail would never be the same, Rose.


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## Shero (Oct 27, 2021)

Grammar and punctuation in light reading such as on this forum does not worry me. Actually there are a  couple or more of posters whose posts are so incorrect, but so funny, I love reading them!  BUT, I must say, in any type of writing I like paragraphs. Love them so much that when I see a a long post without proper paragraphs, I do not read them.


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## Gary O' (Oct 27, 2021)

Shero said:


> I must say, in any type of writing I like paragraphs. Love them so much that when I see a a long post without proper paragraphs, I do not read them.


Yeah, I'm there with that.
Broken English; OK
Unbroken, run on paragraph; gotta scroll on


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## garyt1957 (Oct 27, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> As a Pedant I am easily riled by those in the community who have no idea about the correct use of Apostrophes.
> Did they not learn about Apostrophes?
> The rules concerning the use of apostrophes in written English are very simple:
> 
> ...


Can't say I've ever seen them used to denote plurals


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## Bretrick (Oct 27, 2021)

Shero said:


> .
> Why did you capitalize the  P in periodically? Not necessary to do so.


I ended that sentence with - most people are going to slip up Periodically.   deliberate "slip up"


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## dseag2 (Oct 27, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> As a Pedant I am easily riled by those in the community who have no idea about the correct use of Apostrophes.
> Did they not learn about Apostrophes?
> The rules concerning the use of apostrophes in written English are very simple:
> 
> ...


I'm speechless.


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## FastTrax (Oct 27, 2021)

Gary O' said:


> Can't be too anal about the English language.
> It's a bastard of many mother tongues.
> And evolves...
> 
> ...



www.wikidiff.com/cognisant/cognizant

And the winner is none other than Gary O


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## Shero (Oct 27, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> I ended that sentence with - most people are going to slip up Periodically.   deliberate "slip up"


.
Vraiment ??? Pull your head in mate !
.


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## Bretrick (Oct 27, 2021)

Shero said:


> .
> Vraiment ??? Pull your head in mate !
> .


?? Thank you for your input


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## Furryanimal (Oct 27, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> I note that you don't capitalise the first person pronoun "I". Why not?


Because i have got sloppy...


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## Warrigal (Oct 27, 2021)

Furryanimal said:


> Because i have got sloppy...


I thought it might be Welsh nonconformity.


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## jerry old (Oct 27, 2021)

The pedant get the hebbie  jebbies too

You want'a see a pedant person''''s prison?
Huh, huh???
Okay

sick

got more


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## Bretrick (Oct 27, 2021)

jerry old said:


> The pedant get the hebbie  jebbies too
> 
> You want'a see a pedant person''''s prison?
> Huh, huh???
> ...


Yes Please


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## jerry old (Oct 27, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Yes Please


()
()
[]
{]


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## Paco Dennis (Oct 27, 2021)

Editorial :

*Fake News Invader hits the Senior Forum*

  A new member has posted a fake post on the Senior Forum. Disguised as a complaint about how horrible the grammar and punctuation is in the majority of the members posts. He even admits he did it to arouse people into responding to him. He baited the forum by a false motive, to fulfill some narcissistic craving for attention. Never has such a diabolical thing happened on the mild mannered Forum. Now that he got most members attention by acting as some kind of nasty school teacher when we young and vulnerable, he has given us an "F" just to force them to doubt themselve's and give up their freedom to bend to his will. 
  He has been exposed now as one who only wants to mess with their lives. He needs to severely punished for this. What the members have proposed is that he is banished from Perth and then send into the bush for a month ( with no internet ). This will take about $300 to set up. There is a donate link below. Please donate as soon as possible so this human virus can be dealt with.



It's not nice to play with Mother Nature...it always bats last.


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## Bretrick (Oct 28, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> Editorial :
> 
> *Fake News Invader hits the Senior Forum*
> 
> ...


My retirement dream is to live deep in the bush away from the hoi polloi.
Can you arrange for me to be sent to the Dryandra Woodlands where I can spend my time Photographing the very elusive and endangered Numbat?


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## Paco Dennis (Oct 28, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> My retirement dream is to live deep in the bush away from the hoi polloi.
> Can you arrange for me to be sent to the Dryandra Woodlands where I can spend my time Photographing the very elusive and endangered Numbat?


I know my friend...the donations will go to fulfil your Numbat dream.


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## Irwin (Oct 28, 2021)

I give a pass most of the time when I encounter bad grammar, incorrect spelling, and malapropisms. What I can't stomach is people with strong opinions that aren't based on evidence or logic.

Society these days is divided into two categories: those whose beliefs are based on reality and those whose aren't, which is why we're so polarized and why we're unable to engage in civil discourse with those who disagree with us. When you can't even agree on facts, it's impossible to come to a consensus.


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## Meanderer (Oct 28, 2021)

David777 said:


> I often had to read much technology and science during my career, and write test procedures and documents others could follow.  So my vocabulary, spelling, and grammar is not only strong but I have a compulsive habit to edit and correct most mistakes or vagueness I later notice in my web posts.  That noted, it does not bother me or slow me down reading others informal web written mistakes.


You bring a refreshing attitude to the discussion, David.  Thank you. 
I think that, among senior friends, in a non-classroom setting, it is more important to be able to overlook a mistake in one's writing, as an act  of graciousness.  A crude treasure map can be just as valuable as a beautiful one....maybe more so.


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## Ken N Tx (Oct 28, 2021)

Meanderer said:


> You bring a refreshing attitude to the discussion, David.  Thank you.
> I think that, among senior friends, in a non-classroom setting, it is more important to be able to overlook a mistake in one's writing, as an act  of graciousness.  A crude treasure map can be as valuable as a beautiful one....maybe more so.


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## Della (Oct 28, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> My retirement dream is to live deep in the bush away from the hoi polloi.
> Can you arrange for me to be sent to the Dryandra Woodlands where I can spend my time Photographing the very elusive and endangered Numbat?


Dream on, Bretrick.  Even in the Dryandra Woodlands there will be mail.  Mail begging you to donate to the poor endangered numbat's.


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## horseless carriage (Oct 28, 2021)

For those with the courage, you will discover gross grammatical errors in Shakespeare's writing. How could the Bard of Avon, someone we are taught to revere as semi-divine, have not known how to compare adjectives? For us, there really is no excuse for writing "more strong," "more strange," and "more sweet" in some plays and "more fitter," "more corrupter," and "most poorest" in others. 

How can we ever forgive him for not knowing the distinction between "who" and "whom": "Who wouldst thou serve?"; "To who, my lord?" (_King Lear_ l.iv.24, V.iii. 249); "Who does he accuse?" (_Antony and Cleopatra_ Ill.vi.23). If left to our own devices, of course, we still tend to begin questions with "who," whether it is correct or not. For pity's sake, we expect more of Shakespeare, anyone seeking perfection from our most famous writer, this disappointment may be "the most unkindest cut of all"!


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## Tom 86 (Oct 28, 2021)

I'm around too many southern people.  Ya'all & a lot of others.


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## horseless carriage (Oct 28, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> I'm around too many southern people.  Ya'all & a lot of others.


Y'all is ok by me, after all, our snobbish legal profession, when addressing the judge, pronounce My Lord, as: 'M'Lud.'
Same meat, different gravy.


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## Meanderer (Oct 28, 2021)




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## FastTrax (Oct 28, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> Editorial :
> 
> *Fake News Invader hits the Senior Forum*
> 
> ...



How about Diners Club? Oh wait. I seem to be overdrawn on my Micky D's account.


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## WheatenLover (Oct 29, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Apostrophes are NEVER ever used to denote plurals! Common examples of such abuse are:
> Banana's for sale which of course should read Bananas for sale
> Menu's printed to order which should read Menus printed to order
> 1000's of bargains here! which should read 1000s of bargains here!
> ...


What about this sentence? My son made all A's last semester. Without an apostrophe it doesn't look right. My made all As last semester. I really do want to know.


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## WheatenLover (Oct 29, 2021)

Well, not to brag, but my sons can speak Pig Latin so fast that invariably people ask them if they are speaking Chinese. They have secret conversations that no one except them can understand. So, teaching them a new language backfired on me.


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## Bretrick (Oct 29, 2021)

Paco Dennis said:


> I know my friend...the donations will go to fulfil your Numbat dream.


Thank you so much. When you reach the stated amount I will send you my paypal account details  


WheatenLover said:


> What about this sentence? My son made all A's last semester. Without an apostrophe it doesn't look right. My made all As last semester. I really do want to know.


One of those conundrums. A's is correct because without the apostrophe it would form a different word. As


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## WheatenLover (Oct 29, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> Thank you so much. When you reach the stated amount I will send you my paypal account details
> 
> One of those conundrums. A's is correct because without the apostrophe it would form a different word. As


Thank you. I have always wondered about that.


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## Jules (Oct 31, 2021)

Since you care about apostrophes, you might want to correct the title in your topic
How well do you know your countries history? to country’s history.​Some of these grammatical rules aren’t easy.


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## JaniceM (Dec 18, 2021)

Bretrick said:


> *Banana's for sale which of course should read Bananas for sale*


Oh, not necessarily.  The statement would be correct if you were selling only one banana.


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## win231 (Dec 18, 2021)

Glory Bee said:


> Even though I appreciate what you are saying I personally do not think it is good to make others feel less intelligent. Live and let live is my motto. Not everyone might have had the same education that you did.  I think compassion, being sincere and kindness is more important.  But what do I know.


You forgot the question mark after "But what do I know?"


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## JaniceM (Jan 2, 2022)

timoc said:


> Wow, clever girl, after a few snifters of a good single malt I become fluent in Klingon.


bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay


----------



## JaniceM (Jan 2, 2022)

Meanderer said:


>


Well, I had a friend in school who believed an apostrophe was necessary for any word or name that ended in "S." 
One day she was filling out a form that asked for her father's name.  So she wrote CHARLE'S. 
I was tempted to ask who "Charle" was, and what belonged to him, but decided to be polite and say nothing.


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## jerry old (Jan 2, 2022)

The Grammar Czars are  out in force today.
At this stage in my life I find it superfluous, it is all I can do to write a coherent statement.
Oh well, whatever rings yu' bell


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## fmdog44 (Jan 2, 2022)

Apostrophe ignorance is a greater threat to this planet than environmental ignorance.


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## Old Salt (Feb 5, 2022)

Here are things that baffle me. Let me say very quickly that I am not a snob. English is my second language and a lot of the things I learned fifty years ago are changing on me. Here are a few:

"There was no room for Roger and I." Should be "There was no room for Roger and me!"
"Me and Roger went to the movies"   Should be "Roger and I went to the movies."
"Roger was waiting on me." I learned, "Roger was waiting for me," unless he was a server!
"I am thinking on it."  I learned "I am thinking about it!"
The word "farther!"  All too many authors have forgotten about this word. It is used when it
comes to physical distances. It is mostly "further" now, distances or not!

Anyway, as I said, I am not talking from a position of superiority. Just astounded at the changes in my second language over the years and, being elderly, can't quite get used to them! So, please, take it easy on me!


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## dobielvr (Feb 5, 2022)

The way I remember if it's I or ME...is to remove that other person.

Roger and I went to the store.  Remove Roger.  I went to the store. 
Roger and me went to the store.  Remove Roger.  Me went to the store.  

Works for me.


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## Snow74 (Feb 5, 2022)

jerry old said:


> The Grammar Czars are  out in force today.
> At this stage in my life I find it superfluous, it is all I can do to write a coherent statement.
> Oh well, whatever rings yu' bell
> [/


----------



## win231 (Feb 5, 2022)

Old Salt said:


> Here are things that baffle me. Let me say very quickly that I am not a snob. English is my second language and a lot of the things I learned fifty years ago are changing on me. Here are a few:
> 
> "There was no room for Roger and I." Should be "There was no room for Roger and me!"
> "Me and Roger went to the movies"   Should be "Roger and I went to the movies."
> ...


Well, you better stop it or one of us will come over you're house.


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## Old Salt (Feb 5, 2022)

dobielvr said:


> The way I remember if it's I or ME...is to remove that other person.
> 
> Roger and I went to the store.  Remove Roger.  I went to the store.
> Roger and me went to the store.  Remove Roger.  Me went to the store.
> ...


That's the example I tend to use in many of my book reviews! Hoping that authors, editors, proof readers will see them.


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## Old Salt (Feb 5, 2022)

I don't understand the outrage when it comes to the original post! Isn't the name of this group "English Language?" What else would we talk about?


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## Jules (Feb 5, 2022)

dobielvr said:


> Roger and me went to the store.


At least that person was polite and put Roger first.


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## Old Salt (Feb 5, 2022)

Jules said:


> At least that person was polite and put Roger first.


I know that the reply was humorous but it is leading me to pontificate once again. I am fascinated by the evolution of the English language. Here is what one "expert" said in connection with this Roger and me business: "I believe the current misuse of "for Roger and I" comes from mothers' efforts to correct children when they stated: "Me and Roger are going to get some ice cream." "No, no, no, dear. It should be Roger and I!" 

And ever since people have assumed that it is more elegant (and right) to use "Roger and I" in all the wrong spots! Here endeth the lesson!


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## horseless carriage (Feb 5, 2022)

Old Salt said:


> And ever since people have assumed that it is more elegant (and right) to use "Roger and I" in all the wrong spots! Here endeth the lesson!


In Brit-speak, rogered has an altogether dubious meaning.


----------



## Jules (Feb 5, 2022)

@Old Salt.  That’s a valid example. I heard a mother correct her daughter.  It wasn’t my place to say anything.


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## ohioboy (Feb 5, 2022)

Selenites are Moon creatures. (No ' ), ha.


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## Lavinia (Feb 6, 2022)

I so agree with you. I despair at the poor education some people seem to be getting. Even some  who have had a private education still mangle the English language. I accept that language does change but it should change in a good way, not lower the standard.


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## Mizmo (Feb 6, 2022)

timoc said:


> Oh dear, me being a bit thick, I shall make my way to the corner of the room and don my dunce's hat.




I will have to join you timoc.  Do you have a spare hat I could borrow


----------



## JaniceM (Feb 6, 2022)

Lavinia said:


> I so agree with you. I despair at the poor education some people seem to be getting. Even some  who have had a private education still mangle the English language. I accept that language does change but it should change in a good way, not lower the standard.


But how can we expect any better when non-words are actually put into the dictionary (HANGRY, for example), and people insist fill-in-the-blank-_hyphen-shaming _is proper English?


----------



## ronaldj (Feb 6, 2022)

I am a terrible speller. When someone says if you cannot spell the word look it up? If you cannot spell the word how can you look it up?


----------



## RFW (Feb 6, 2022)

ronaldj said:


> I am a terrible speller. When someone says if you cannot spell the word look it up? If you cannot spell the word how can you look it up?


Sometimes when you look up a word on Google using your incorrect spelling, it shows you the correct one.
I enter "consciencious" and the first result I get is "conscientious".


----------



## Mizmo (Feb 6, 2022)

Well, this thread has totally exhausted and flummoxed me this morning.   I am off to the coffee shop. Och aye.....

.....that is Scottish in case anyone is wondering....can mean a few things but won't go into it right now....
btw..... are all these dots okay....saves more word typing and worries about grammar..... speshully when one has a sore thumb


----------



## Bretrick (Feb 6, 2022)

Mizmo said:


> Well, this thread has totally exhausted and flummoxed me this morning.   I am off to the coffee shop. Och aye.....
> 
> .....that is Scottish in case anyone is wondering....can mean a few things but won't go into it right now....
> btw..... are all these dots okay....saves more word typing and worries about grammar..... speshully when one has a sore thumbView attachment 207170


Three Ellipsis points are acceptable, even four if you wish...


----------



## Devi (Feb 6, 2022)

Bretrick said:


> Three Ellipsis points are acceptable, even four if you wish...


My understanding is that three elipsis points are correct. Four if you're ending a sentence, like so: ....


----------



## win231 (Feb 6, 2022)

ronaldj said:


> I am a terrible speller. When someone says if you cannot spell the word look it up? If you cannot spell the word how can you look it up?


That's right.  And the words that are most often misspelled are _"Misspelled_" & _"Dictionary."      _


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## ohioboy (Feb 6, 2022)

The plural of sheep is still sheep.


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## Warrigal (Feb 6, 2022)

Those of us who were fortunate enough to have had excellent schooling and post school education need to be aware that not everyone has been so lucky. We need to police ourselves when it comes to grammar and spelling but never look down on people who do not communicate  as easily using the written word. They must never be made to feel inferior, because they are not.

I am rather hopeless at using the keyboard and I need to proof read and edit everything I post. Even so, I often spot spelling mistakes later on or words left out that should appear as well as words left in that should have been deleted. Pride compels me to edit some posts long after first writing them but that is just me. Pride is not always a virtue.


----------



## mellowyellow (Feb 6, 2022)

Incorrect use of the English language does not worry me at all, just getting the jist is okay with me.


----------



## Bretrick (Feb 6, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> The plural of sheep is still sheep.


I beg to differ, more than one sheep? sheps


----------

