# 'Natural Immunity' Lawsuit Over COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate Ends in Surprising Result



## Devi (Sep 17, 2021)

Regarding natural immunity versus vaccines, this video is short but sweet:


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## Warrigal (Sep 17, 2021)

He had Covid early last year. He hasn't said whether he is tracking his immunity over time.
I would be very interested to hear how long natural immunity lasts compared to the results for vaccines.


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## Devi (Sep 17, 2021)

True. I've also read that multiple vaccine shots may be needed; they seem to just keep piling them on.


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## ManjaroKDE (Sep 18, 2021)

Passing thoughts concerning Covid.  A.  There have been 40+ Million cases of Covid in the US.  Since one of the side effects is lack of oxygen.  Should we worry about what happens to the brain when it doesn't get proper oxygen, are we going to lower our standards on intelligent tests?   B.  Heard the reasoning, 'That since I had Covid, I'm now immune', has medical science agreed to that?  C.  As for the ones claiming they are naturally healthy I'm therefore immune, should we go back and check with the native Americans whether they felt they were immune to smallpox because they were also healthy.

Covid is a game changer.


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## mathjak107 (Sep 18, 2021)

No one knows how long their natural immunity lasts since to know requires a special , very expensive test called a neutralizing antibody test …most labs can’t do it .

the Red Cross did use that test for convalescent plasma donors …they found immunity ranged all over the map ….they found for most it was good up until about six months and then it was to iffy to use ….

the antibody test we get is an antibody binding test and it only means you had cont with the virus …it says nothing about immunity


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## ManjaroKDE (Sep 18, 2021)

I must admit to *NOT* watching this link's video. I make a habit of not going 'willy nilly' clicking on external links. Like my privacy and try to make it as hard to track as possible.


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## Don M. (Sep 18, 2021)

ManjaroKDE said:


> Passing thoughts concerning Covid.  A.  There have been 40+ Million cases of Covid in the US.  Since one of the side effects is lack of oxygen.



Last year, when this virus started erupting, and one of the symptoms was shortness of breath, etc., due to lack of oxygen, we bought one of these small "Pulse Oximeters" that you slip onto your finger, and it measures your oxygen percentage, and pulse.  A good oxygen level is 94, or above.  We monitor ourselves regularly when/after doing any strenuous activities...even after having the Moderna vaccines.   A consistent lower Oxygen level is a sign that a person should check with their doctor.


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## Devi (Sep 18, 2021)

ManjaroKDE said:


> B.  Heard the reasoning, 'That since I had Covid, I'm now immune', has medical science agreed to that?


Yes. Look up "natural immunity" — how and why that occurs.


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## Lethe200 (Sep 18, 2021)

*Ravens QB Lamar Jackson noncommittal about Covid-19 vaccine after contracting virus twice*
By Amir Vera, CNN Tue August 10, 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/09/us/lamar-jackson-baltimore-ravens-covid/index.html


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## Alligatorob (Sep 18, 2021)

Thanks for the link, very interesting.

I've not see the Israeli study he mentioned, but will try to find it.  I am not at all surprised that the immunity you get from having Covid is better than the vaccine, it would surprise me if that were not true.

Do we know what both having had Covid and getting the vaccine does?  That is the situation my wife is in.  

An important question is does having the vaccine and Covid give you more immunity?  Or the same or less?  And are there any side effects to worry about?


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## Tish (Sep 18, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> I would be very interested to hear how long natural immunity lasts compared to the results for vaccines.


Me too.


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## Lawrence00 (Sep 18, 2021)

There are 4 proteins in covid. The vaccine is meant to give a person a "head start" to fight it off by recognizing the covid spike, one of the 4, and this is a good idea. 

A person that has had to face covid, and live through it, has antibodies for all 4 proteins, plus other intelligence which has been gifted to us by thousands of years of evolution. 

This protection is far superior to the vaccine, though corporate profiteers and political donors do not wish for that to be common knowledge. 

The American Red Cross clearly stated on their website that if someone has had a vaccine shot and not full evolutionary antibodies, that they are unable to use their blood for plasma to save the lives of critical covid patients. They need the full power of natural antibodies. 

At 18 months out I still had natural antibodies. The American Red Cross has stopped informing donors of the antibody tests, I think it was July, and my viewpoint is that it was because of political pressure.


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## Devi (Sep 18, 2021)

Lawrence Nobs said:


> There are 4 proteins in covid. The vaccine is meant to give a person a "head start" to fight it off by recognizing the covid spike, one of the 4, and this is a good idea.
> 
> A person that has had to face covid, and live through it, has antibodies for all 4 proteins, plus other intelligence which has been gifted to us by thousands of years of evolution.
> 
> ...


Thanks, @Lawrence Nobs for the excellent explanation!

And welcome to the forums!


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## oldman (Sep 19, 2021)

Israel did a study of vaccines vs natural immunity. Supposedly, natural immunity gives the person that had COVID a 29X better result vs vaccines. This doesn't mean that a prior infected person won't be re-infected, but the re-infection may only be symptomatic conditions, rather than a death threatening situation. I had the vaccines (Pfizer) and COVID. I don't know what that does. I already made up my mind that I will not be getting any booster shots, which now Pfizer is saying are unnecessary. 

https://science.thewire.in/health/n...otection-delta-variant-vaccines-israel-study/


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## mathjak107 (Sep 19, 2021)

Lawrence Nobs said:


> There are 4 proteins in covid. The vaccine is meant to give a person a "head start" to fight it off by recognizing the covid spike, one of the 4, and this is a good idea.
> 
> A person that has had to face covid, and live through it, has antibodies for all 4 proteins, plus other intelligence which has been gifted to us by thousands of years of evolution.
> 
> ...


however the red cross also states if you have had covid they are unable to accept your blood more than 6 months after covid  since natural immunity is all over the map as far as how long it lasts .  we know people who got covid 2x in a year pre vaccination .


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## mathjak107 (Sep 19, 2021)

you have to take  the israeli studies with a grain of salt since they arrive at conclusions with very small groups , usually just a particular hosptal or organization .

we have almost as many people in nyc as their whole country .

small group samples can be almost random results .

remember Israel said vaccinated spew less viral material then  unvaccinated by 8 to 10x .

then the providence study here proved that false .

they said we spew the same .

but the providence study was flawed too .

they never went the extra step to actually culture the virus and see if over a few days there was a difference in potency  between being vaccinated and not .

well  doing that showed a big difference . the virus in the vaccinated turned sickly over the next few days losing a lot of effectiveness as a virus .

so yeah , the amount of viral material spewed may be the same but odds of  being  very sick are greatly reduced as the vaccinated virus is showing it lost some of its potency


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## Liberty (Sep 19, 2021)

We've heard recently of a man hospitalized with covid twice - was in the 
hospital for months.  He since has received the vaccine.  So we'll see in his case.  Seems we are not all the same and the disease affects us differently.
Best to be careful.  Do believe Moderna is a stronger, longer lasting  vaccine than Pfizer. White paper details it.


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## squatting dog (Sep 19, 2021)

Yep. Here's one mans opinion.... but, what would he know, after all  Professor Perrone is only one of France’s most highly rated experts in infectious diseases and long-time vaccine policy chief.  (sarcasm). He is being censored and criticized despite his knowledge in the field of viral diseases and vaccines. 

His interview last August with the UK Column has gained more attention after last night’s FDA hearing on the booster shots. Here’s an excerpt from his interview:


> *“Vaccinated people are at risk of the new variants and transmitted. It’s been proven in different countries so vaccinated people should be put in quarantine and should be isolated from society. Unvaccinated people are not dangerous; vaccinated people are dangerous to others. It’s proven in Israel now, where I’m in contact with many physicians in Israel. They’re having big problems now; severe cases in hospitals are among vaccinated people. And in the UK also, you had a larger vaccination program and also there are problems.”*



Of course, when making statements like that, one has to question his credibility. (more sarcasm).

Professor Perronne is Head of the Medical Department at Raymond Poincaré Hospital in Garches, the teaching hospital for the University of Versailles-St Quentin near Paris. He was the University’s Head of Department for Infectious and Tropical Diseases from 1994 onwards but was fired from that position a few months ago. He is a Fellow of France’s biomedical research center of world standing, the Institut Pasteur, from which he graduated in bacteriology and virology and where he served as Deputy Director of the National Reference Centre for Tuberculosis and Mycobacteria until 1998.

He has chaired many top-level health committees, including the French Specialist Committee for Communicable Diseases, and the High Council on Public Health (French acronym: HCSP), which advises the government on public health policy and vaccination policy. He is not anti-vaccine and indeed wrote France’s vaccination policy for many years, as well as presiding over the National Consultation Group on Vaccination, also known as the Technical Committee on Vaccination (CTV).

Professor Perronne was also the Vice-President of the European Advisory Group to the World Health Organisation. At the national level in France, he has chaired the Infectious and Tropical Diseases Teaching College (CMIT), the Infectious Diseases Federation (FFI, which he co-founded), the High Council for Public Hygiene (CSHP), and the National Medical and Healthcare products Safety Agency (ANSM, previously AFSSAPS), which evaluates the health risks of medicines and is France’s sole regulator of biomedical research. Until 2013, he sat on the Scientific Council of the French Microbiology and Infectious Diseases Research Institute (IMMI/INSERM).

Despite Professor Perronne’s extensive knowledge and experience of communicable diseases, vaccines, and vaccine policy at the national and governmental levels in France, he was quickly censored for speaking out on the subject of Covid-19 vaccines, their claimed efficacy, and their identifiable risks. In short, he was professionally sidelined, his reputation was attacked and his professional opinions were censored.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 19, 2021)

mathjak107 said:


> you have to take the israeli studies with a grain of salt since they arrive at conclusions with very small groups , usually just a particular hosptal or organization .


You make a good point.  Have you seen the original study?  If so could you post a link?  I'd be interested.


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## Liberty (Sep 19, 2021)

Over 600,000 people died in this country _*before vaccines.*_


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## mathjak107 (Sep 19, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> You make a good point.  Have you seen the original study?  If so could you post a link?  I'd be interested.


I read it a while ago but I am sure it is all over as the media loves anything negative about the vaccines


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## WhatInThe (Sep 19, 2021)

I'll have to search some links but I heard a couple of docs say natural immunity if there is somekind of memory in T or or B cells. Apparently those vaxxes using the mrna don't have the same effect.

I will say having many of the diseases or viruses they vax for now i haven't had an issue in at least half a century


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## mathjak107 (Sep 19, 2021)

WhatInThe said:


> I'll have to search some links but I heard a couple of docs say natural immunity if there has somekind of memory in T or or B cells. Apparently those vaxxes using the mrna don't have the same effect.
> 
> I will say having many of the diseases or viruses they vax for now i haven't had an issue in at least half a century


And some like the flu are every year ….shingles is actually the chicken pox virus no longer being kept in check by the body


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## squatting dog (Sep 19, 2021)

mathjak107 said:


> you have to take  the israeli studies with a grain of salt since they arrive at conclusions with very small groups , usually just a particular hosptal or organization .
> 
> we have almost as many people in nyc as their whole country .
> 
> ...


Ok I'll agree about Israel being a small country. So, Let's use someplace like India as an example.

Professor Perronne (see my post #18 for his credentials)  shared his view on the use of Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine as COVID treatment.



> “So for hydroxychloroquine, I agree, but unfortunately there are not many randomized studies. But for ivermectin, there were randomized studies, and now it’s been proven. And in India now, it’s spectacular. In the Indian states where they widely used ivermectin, the success was huge, and in the states of India where they didn’t use ivermectin but they were inoculating with this so-called “vaccine”, it was a catastrophe.
> If you look at the world news, there’s a woman who was at a high level in the WHO, who’s Indian, and now she’s on trial in India because she said that ivermectin was not useful and was toxic and so on.
> *To think that ivermectin is toxic is completely stupid: hundreds of millions, maybe billions of people in the world have taken ivermectin for diseases, for filariasis and so on. So it’s a very well-known product. No, it works; it’s completely proven.*“


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## Alligatorob (Sep 19, 2021)

mathjak107 said:


> I read it a while ago but I am sure it is all over as the media loves anything negative about the vaccines


I think I found the study https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf  It was based on a few more than 100,000 people, not a bad sample size.  Not as many as other studies, but still respectable.

I don't think the study says anything bad about the vaccine, to the contrary it found the vaccine does confer immunity, only that it is not as powerful as the natural immunity.  I don't think that's a surprise, and I don't think it should keep people from getting vaccinated.   

It doesn't change my mind, I still believe the vaccine is preferable to getting the virus.


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## mathjak107 (Sep 20, 2021)

I was not referring to that study …Israel originally released a study that showed unvaccinated people spewed viral loads 8 to ten times greater then vaccinated…that we later saw was false .

the providence study showed that we all spew the same amount of viral material , but that was flawed for the reasons I said above ..it was never cultured to see the effects a day or two later on the virus  …there was a big difference in the potency of the virus


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## AnnieA (Sep 20, 2021)

ManjaroKDE said:


> Passing thoughts concerning Covid.  A.  There have been 40+ Million cases of Covid in the US.  Since one of the side effects is lack of oxygen.  Should we worry about what happens to the brain when it doesn't get proper oxygen, are we going to lower our standards on intelligent tests?   B.  Heard the reasoning, 'That since I had Covid, I'm now immune', has medical science agreed to that?  C.  As for the ones claiming they are naturally healthy I'm therefore immune, should we go back and check with the native Americans whether they felt they were immune to smallpox because they were also healthy.
> 
> Covid is a game changer.



It's negligence that there isn't a pulse oximeter provided for every household in the US. They cost around $20 retail, so imagine the bulk savings for a federal purchase.   As soon as oxygen levels drop, provide oxygen.   Countless numbers of lives could be saved.  We've known since early on in this pandemic that there is deadly 'silent hypoxia' with Covid pneumonia and that by the time a patient feels short of breath the lungs are severely damaged.  One cheap, easy to use device would alert someone to seek early treatment.

As for your question about natural immunity, Israel's data from a few weeks ago shows that it is superior to vaccine induced immunity.


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## AnnieA (Sep 20, 2021)

This is why we need immunity passports that are based on antibody lab reports as an alternate to vaccine cards for those previously infected who have good antibody levels. 


Immunity passport (antibody based) covering both recovered and vaccinated

Link also has a summary of recent Israeli data showing that natural immunity has provided more protection against the Delta variant than vaccine induce immunity.
.


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## AnnieA (Sep 20, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> He had Covid early last year. He hasn't said whether he is tracking his immunity over time.
> I would be very interested to hear how long natural immunity lasts compared to the results for vaccines.



He states in the video that he had antibodies tested by an immunologist and they're at protective levels.


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## Warrigal (Sep 21, 2021)

Thanks, AnnieA. I did note that but I am also aware that although studies showed differences in immunity levels between AstraZeneca and Pfizer shortly after vaccination it turns out that after a few month the immunity levels were the same.

I also remember my mother telling me that her eldest sister, who was a kindergarten teacher, caught measles every year when there was an outbreak in her class. I take Mum's stories with a grain of salt because her understanding of science was severely limited but it is still possible that individuals' natural immunity levels can vary greatly over time.


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## mathjak107 (Sep 21, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> This is why we need immunity passports that are based on antibody lab reports as an alternate to vaccine cards for those previously infected who have good antibody levels.
> 
> 
> Immunity passport (antibody based) covering both recovered and vaccinated
> ...


While this is true , measuring it is very expensive and most labs can not do the testing of immunity …the test we get only confirms contact not immunity …because the vaccine is so cheap in comparison to a neutralizing antibody test most insurers won’t pay for it .

they only pay for the antibody binding test which shows contact and is far cheaper


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## suds00 (Sep 24, 2021)

if you become ill with covid-19 and aren't hospitalized or die perhaps you will have "natural immunity". this isn't a "winning" strategy. people who haven't had covid-19 need to be vaccinated.


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