# Vaccines



## Mike

I was thinking about the various vaccines and the arguments
for and against.

If they added a fluorescent substance to them and it made the
skin glow for a short while, that would really show who had, had
the jabs, a lot of the people who say they are against it, have had
the jabs, but keeping quiet about it, plus many who say that they
have had it, haven't been near a needle.

Just a thought, but the glowing skin would probably frighten many.

Mike.


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## ManjaroKDE

Mike said:


> I was thinking about the various vaccines and the arguments
> for and against.
> 
> If they added a fluorescent substance to them and it made the
> skin glow for a short while, that would really show who had, had
> the jabs, a lot of the people who say they are against it, have had
> the jabs, but keeping quiet about it, plus many who say that they
> have had it, haven't been near a needle.
> 
> Just a thought, but the glowing skin would probably frighten many.
> 
> Mike.


Use my five simple rules for the pandemic:

1.  Get all doses of the vaccine
2.  Wash hands frequently
3.  Avoid crowds
4.  Wear your masks when out and about
5.  Treat everybody as the enemy


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## chic

Mike said:


> I was thinking about the various vaccines and the arguments
> for and against.
> 
> If they added a fluorescent substance to them and it made the
> skin glow for a short while, that would really show who had, had
> the jabs, a lot of the people who say they are against it, have had
> the jabs, but keeping quiet about it, plus many who say that they
> have had it, haven't been near a needle.
> 
> Just a thought, but the glowing skin would probably frighten many.
> 
> Mike.


And does this fluorescent effect ever go away? This is draconian.


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## Shero

Your fluorescent idea is a bit over the top Mike. but  you are correct about one thing.
The anti vaxxers cult movement have now added to their repertoire that some have had the jab and have become sick and nearly dying. Lies of course, another ploy to scare people.


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## Devi

Shero said:


> Your fluorescent idea is a bit over the top Mike. but  you are correct about one thing.
> The anti vaxxers cult movement have now added to their repertoire that some have had the jab and have become sick and nearly dying. Lies of course, another ploy to scare people.


Maybe you should check this (the stats below are current and get updated):
https://openvaers.com/index.php

"VAERS is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System put in place in 1990. It is a voluntary reporting system that has been estimated to account for only *1% (see the Lazarus Report)* of vaccine injuries. *OpenVAERS* is built from the HHS data available for download at *vaers.hhs.gov*."​​
REPORTS OF VACCINE ADVERSE EVENTS IN VAERS
17,128 COVID Vaccine Reported Deaths / 26,182 Total Reported Deaths
83,412 Total COVID Vaccine Reported Hospitalizations/161,568 Total Reported Hospitalizations
818,042 COVID Vaccine Adverse Event Reports


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## Shero

Devi said:


> Maybe you should check this (the stats below are current and get updated):
> https://openvaers.com/index.php
> 
> "VAERS is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System put in place in 1990. It is a voluntary reporting system that has been estimated to account for only *1% (see the Lazarus Report)* of vaccine injuries. *OpenVAERS* is built from the HHS data available for download at *vaers.hhs.gov*."​​
> REPORTS OF VACCINE ADVERSE EVENTS IN VAERS
> 17,128 COVID Vaccine Reported Deaths / 26,182 Total Reported Deaths
> 83,412 Total COVID Vaccine Reported Hospitalizations/161,568 Total Reported Hospitalizations
> 818,042 COVID Vaccine Adverse Event Reports



......and maybe you should check this out !!

*VAERS*​VAERS was created in 1988 and is co-managed by the CDC and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The system was created “to detect possible safety problems in U.S.-licensed vaccines,” according to its website. The website further states that It is a *“passive reporting system*,” meaning that it depends on a person to report their post-vaccination experiences to the CDC and the FDA.

Anyone can report an adverse event to VAERS. Healthcare professionals must report certain adverse events, and vaccine manufacturers must report all adverse events that come to their attention. *However, it is essential to remember that “VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused a health problem.” It is simply a self-reporting tool, which helps the CDC and the FDA detect “unusual or unexpected patterns of adverse event reporting that might indicate a possible safety problem with a vaccine.” 

Also this:*

A disclaimer on the FAERS website here , explains that the FDA receives over 1 million reports of adverse events with drug or biologic products each year.

The FDA explains that while the reports are a “valuable source of information”, the system allows the potential submission of reports that are *“incomplete, inaccurate, untimely, unverified”*. Due to this, the FDA says that this data makes up only one part of its surveillance data and the data “does not confirm a causal relationship between the drug product and the reported adverse event(s).”

*VERDICT*

Misleading. The data shown for adverse events and deaths are from *FAERS* and *VAERS* data, which does MOT provide information on verified, causal cases. The information can be submitted by anyone and does not show causation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-faers-idUSL2N2OE1ZA


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## Devi

And so that means any reports of someone dying from a vaccine are lies?


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## SeaBreeze

Shero said:


> ......and maybe you should check this out !!
> 
> 
> 
> *VAERS*​VAERS was created in 1988 and is co-managed by the CDC and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The system was created “to detect possible safety problems in U.S.-licensed vaccines,” according to its website. The website further states that It is a *“passive reporting system*,” meaning that it depends on a person to report their post-vaccination experiences to the CDC and the FDA.
> 
> Anyone can report an adverse event to VAERS. Healthcare professionals must report certain adverse events, and vaccine manufacturers must report all adverse events that come to their attention. *However, it is essential to remember that “VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused a health problem.” It is simply a self-reporting tool, which helps the CDC and the FDA detect “unusual or unexpected patterns of adverse event reporting that might indicate a possible safety problem with a vaccine.”
> 
> Also this:*
> 
> A disclaimer on the FAERS website here , explains that the FDA receives over 1 million reports of adverse events with drug or biologic products each year.
> 
> The FDA explains that while the reports are a “valuable source of information”, the system allows the potential submission of reports that are *“incomplete, inaccurate, untimely, unverified”*. Due to this, the FDA says that this data makes up only one part of its surveillance data and the data “does not confirm a causal relationship between the drug product and the reported adverse event(s).”
> 
> *VERDICT*
> 
> Misleading. The data shown for adverse events and deaths are from *FAERS* and *VAERS* data, which does MOT provide information on verified, causal cases. The information can be submitted by anyone and does not show causation.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-faers-idUSL2N2OE1ZA


Thanks Shero, many of us know this already after all this time, but obviously some do not, or they reject the facts voluntarily and stick to fear mongering


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## Shero

Devi said:


> And so that means any reports of someone dying from a vaccine are lies?


99.9% of people who die from a covid vaccine have other health complications. Who says the vaccine was the cause!


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## Shero

SeaBreeze said:


> Thanks Shero, many of us know this already after all this time, but obviously some do not, or they reject the facts voluntarily and stick to fear mongering



The trouble with the anti vaxxers is this: once they draw a fanatical conclusion about the vaccine that could save their life, they then do two things: (1) look for evidence that reinforce their ridiculous belief and (2) ignore anything that runs contrary to that belief.


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## Devi

Oh, please. I didn't say I was anti-vaccine; just not sure about this one. But whatever.

I've had plenty of vaccines in the past.


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## win231

Devi said:


> And so that means any reports of someone dying from a vaccine are lies?


Only to those who got the vaccine & are pushing it on others.


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## Ruthanne

win231 said:


> Only to those who got the vaccine & are pushing it on others.


That is Over Generalizing!!!


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## Ruthanne

Yeah you're so funny


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## Ruthanne

Some people are just plain idiots I swear when it comes to this issue.    I'm not talking about those who don't vaccine for medical reasons either--they have a VALID excuse.  

I'm tired of those who are adding to the death toll and infecting others by not vaccinning and catching this horrid disease!  There personal freedoms are at risk?  And what about the freedom of those others you kill by infecting them, huh?  Is that a joke, too?  

Quit being political about this and own up to helping our society LIVE!!


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## Ellen Marie

Sentiment differs around the world and according to the control the government exercises over their population.  Cuba has the highest vaccination rate, but they still had tremendous spikes July through now.  Great Britain is about 85% vaccinated (over 12), and they still are struggling with spikes.  China lies about it all, and the world will never know how many cases and deaths they have had.  It is not going away... and the additional doses don't necessarily help with the newer strains.   I guess the solution is to take boosters every 3-4 months for the rest of your life?


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## Ruthanne

Ellen Marie said:


> Sentiment differs around the world and according to the control the government exercises over their population.  Cuba has the highest vaccination rate, but they still had tremendous spikes July through now.  Great Britain is about 85% vaccinated (over 12), and they still are struggling with spikes.  China lies about it all, and the world will never know how many cases and deaths they have had.  It is not going away... and the additional doses don't necessarily help with the newer strains.   I guess the solution is to take boosters every 3-4 months for the rest of your life?


Yes, there are many questions to this.  Where did you get those stats, btw?


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## Ellen Marie

Ruthanne said:


> Yes, there are many questions to this.  Where did you get those stats, btw?


Off the internet.... Cuba from worldometer, where the top 10 countries which vaccinations are listed.  Cuba has 212 vaccinations per 100 population.   2.12 shots per citizen.


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## Ruthanne

Ellen Marie said:


> Off the internet.... Cuba from worldometer, where the top 10 countries which vaccinations are listed.  Cuba has 212 vaccinations per 100 population.   2.12 shots per citizen.


212 vaccines per 100?? How about providing a viable link to this?


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## Shero

Ruthanne said:


> Some people are just plain idiots I swear when it comes to this issue.    I'm not talking about those who don't vaccine for medical reasons either--they have a VALID excuse.
> 
> I'm tired of those who are adding to the death toll and infecting others by not vaccinning and catching this horrid disease!  There personal freedoms are at risk?  And what about the freedom of those others you kill by infecting them, huh?  Is that a joke, too?
> 
> Quit being political about this and own up to helping our society LIVE!!


Bravo Ruthanne


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## Ellen Marie

Ruthanne said:


> 212 vaccines per 100?? How about providing a viable link to this?


I 'm sorry... moved off the first link so I googled it again.   I was wrong.... it is 222 vaccinations per 100 people.  The vaccinate everyone over 2 years of age.    Here's my evidence to silence the jester......  https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/health/global-covid-vaccinations/


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## Shero

More than 6.8 billion doses of vaccine have been administered across 184 countries, according to data collected by Bloomberg. The latest rate was roughly *27.9 million doses a day*.

In the U.S., *411 million doses* have been given so far. In the last week, an average of *834,431 doses per day* were administered.

If the anti vaxxers are waiting for their prophesy to come true, then all of these people should be dead by now.


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## Ruthanne

Ellen Marie said:


> I 'm sorry... moved off the first link so I googled it again.   I was wrong.... it is 222 vaccinations per 100 people.  The vaccinate everyone over 2 years of age.    Here's my evidence to silence the jester......  https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/health/global-covid-vaccinations/


I am curious as most of us are on this site however I'm not a Jester.  This is a dead serious disease needing accurate STATS.


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## Ellen Marie

I haven't gotten my booster.... I may not.  Why?  It isn't proven to be effective against Delta variant, and it is totally worthless with the Lambda variant.....  "The newly emerging variants of SARS-CoV-2 from India (Delta variant) and South America (Lambda variant) have led to a higher infection rate of either vaccinated or unvaccinated people. We found that sera from Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine remain high reactivity toward the receptor binding domain (RBD) of Delta variant while it drops dramatically toward that of Lambda variant. Interestingly, the overall titer of antibodies of Pfizer-BioNTech vaccinated individuals drops 3-fold after 6 months, which could be one of major reasons for breakthrough infections, emphasizing the importance of potential third boost shot. While a therapeutic antibody, Bamlanivimab, decreases binding affinity to Delta variant by ~20 fold, it fully lost binding to Lambda variant. Structural modeling of complexes of RBD with human receptor, Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2 (ACE2), and Bamlanivimab suggest the potential basis of the change of binding. *The data suggest possible danger and a potential surge of Lambda variant in near future*"   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34462744/


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## Ruthanne

The link with vaccine rates by CNN is not very good.  It doesn't tell a *whole* lot.  It has mistakes on it for sure that are easily identifiable.

Let's not be ALARMIST!  The vaccines have proven to help those who get them to not be seriously ill if they get covid.  Of course as also already determined the vaccines are not foolproof but a HELLUVA LOT better than not getting it!!  So, die if you must but hopefully I won't and those who have gotten the vaccines and boosters will prevail.  

That national library link is also not very reliable.  Try and go by the USA reports.  They seem to be the most reliable.


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## Butterfly

Ellen Marie said:


> Sentiment differs around the world and according to the control the government exercises over their population.  Cuba has the highest vaccination rate, but they still had tremendous spikes July through now.  Great Britain is about 85% vaccinated (over 12), and they still are struggling with spikes.  China lies about it all, and the world will never know how many cases and deaths they have had.  It is not going away... and the additional doses don't necessarily help with the newer strains.   *I guess the solution is to take boosters every 3-4 months for the rest of your life?*


If that's what it takes to stay alive, I'll do it.  It really is no big deal to go get a booster shot, and a lot less trouble than ending up in the ICU.


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## win231

Ruthanne said:


> The link with vaccine rates by CNN is not very good.  It doesn't tell a *whole* lot.  It has mistakes on it for sure that are easily identifiable.
> 
> Let's not be ALARMIST!  The vaccines have proven to help those who get them to not be seriously ill if they get covid.  Of course as also already determined the vaccines are not foolproof but a HELLUVA LOT better than not getting it!!  So, die if you must but hopefully I won't and those who have gotten the vaccines and boosters will prevail.
> 
> That national library link is also not very reliable.  Try and go by the USA reports.  They seem to be the most reliable.


Great!  You can watch all the unvaccinated die, while you live because your vaccine protects you.
So......why are you so worried about the unvaccinated?  No confidence in your vaccine?
And, here's a suggestion:  Before you call other people *"Idiots,*_"_ do something about your 1st-grade spelling & grammar:
"I'm not talking about those who don't _vaccine_."
"Infecting others by not _vaccinning_."
"_There_ personal freedoms are at risk."

Were all the schools closed when you were a child?


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## Shero

Ellen Marie said:


> I haven't gotten my booster.... I may not.  Why?  It isn't proven to be effective against Delta variant, and it is totally worthless with the Lambda variant.....  "The newly emerging variants of SARS-CoV-2 from India (Delta variant) and South America (Lambda variant) have led to a higher infection rate of either vaccinated or unvaccinated people. We found that sera from Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine remain high reactivity toward the receptor binding domain (RBD) of Delta variant while it drops dramatically toward that of Lambda variant. Interestingly, the overall titer of antibodies of Pfizer-BioNTech vaccinated individuals drops 3-fold after 6 months, which could be one of major reasons for breakthrough infections, emphasizing the importance of potential third boost shot. While a therapeutic antibody, Bamlanivimab, decreases binding affinity to Delta variant by ~20 fold, it fully lost binding to Lambda variant. Structural modeling of complexes of RBD with human receptor, Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2 (ACE2), and Bamlanivimab suggest the potential basis of the change of binding. *The data suggest possible danger and a potential surge of Lambda variant in near future*"   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34462744/



What you have posted is a Preprint Article. Preprints have not been peer reviewed !!

Now if you wish to know a little about the “lambda variant” read this, follow the link and play the video: or read the transcript!

“The first question today is about some of the chatter that we are hearing around the Lambda variant.

As you know, viruses change, they mutate. Every time a virus replicates, every time a virus copies itself, there is a chance that it might make a mistake in that copy and that's what we call a mutation. Most mutations don't make a change or actually render the virus unviable, which means that they don't pass on. But some mutations give the virus an advantage. If that advantage can be that it transmits itself more, that it makes more copies of itself or that it's harder to combat by our immune system, those advantageous mutations that are advantageous for the virus, not for us, often get selected as part of natural selection and then new variants or strains of the viruses emerge. That's what we have seen with the so-called Delta variant and that is more transmissible that is causing the majority of the outbreaks in Australia at the moment.

The variants have a complex naming system but, for simplicity, are now getting named by the Greek alphabet letters. We are currently fighting the Delta variant. The dominant strain from last year that was first identified in the UK was the alpha variant, and now we are talking about the Lambda variant which is a variant that was first identified in Peru in December 2020 and it's growing prevalence in South America at the moment. The scientific community is still investigating the context of the Lambda variant and what it means in terms of transmissibility and severity and there is no conclusive data yet. We will keep reviewing what the evidence is and base our public policies on the information that arises. It's important to note as well that the WHO classifies different strains of the virus as variants of interest or variants of concern. A variant of interest is a variety of the virus that may exhibit some of the mutations that give an implication that it may be more transmissible or more severe or have impact into the disease progression,* but until it is understood that that is actually happening within the population they don't get classed as a variant of concern. Delta, the variant that is causing the majority of the transmission in Australia at the moment, is a variant of concern, whereas Lambda at the moment is a variant of interest.* We will keep you updated as more information comes available.

https://www.health.gov.au/news/top-...nd-getting-a-covid-19-vaccination-whilst-sick
.


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## chic

While many have taken the vaccine successfully, many have been harmed by it according to Vaers and I do believe those reports, videos and public testimonies I've watched claiming harm from the vaccine just as I believe many of my friends and relatives have had the vaccine without negative side effects, so far.

But some of those friends and family members are not getting boosters. I suppose they will if coerced, ie - they could lose a job for not being fully vaccinated. In Israel, the most vaccinated country, they are planning a 4th booster! If you do not take all the boosters you lose your "freedom" pass. So you become unvaccinated again.

I do think Vaers incidents will increase when they vaccinate the children and there is no need for this. It's safer for kids to go unvaccinated for covid statistically.


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Great!  You can watch all the unvaccinated die, while you live because your vaccine protects you.
> So......why are you so worried about the unvaccinated?  No confidence in your vaccine?
> And, here's a suggestion:  Before you call other people *"Idiots,*_"_ do something about your 1st-grade spelling & grammar:
> "I'm not talking about those who don't _vaccine_."
> "Infecting others by not _vaccinning_."
> "_There_ personal freedoms are at risk."
> 
> Were all the schools closed when you were a child?


@win231 you have taken to called people idiots a lot lately, so here is a suggestion for you:  STOP


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## Aneeda72

@win231 Sadly the vaccine was NEVER meant to keep people from getting Covid.  Why people keep forgetting this on this forum and in the real world is beyond me.  Unless you have personally dealt with Covid yourself or through family or friends, your yapping is just that, yapping and needless name calling over a subject you have NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE of.

The vaccine was and is meant to be a protection against severe Covid and death.  Hopefully, it would prevent hospitalization as well.  The saddest breakthrough cases of all those are those that result in death, of course.

As it was learned that the antibodies drop, a booster was suggested and allowed.  It was not allowed in time for my vaccinated youngest son to get this shot, thus he caught Delta Covid-19 and was hospitalized.  Delta spread like wildfire through the sheltered workshop and the workshop is now closed for two weeks.

The booster shot was not available to my older son, due to age restriction.  My oldest son has been vaccinated and has had COVID before the vaccine was available.  He sat with his youngest brother, at the hospital, for four hours until I could get there.  Risking catching Delta Covid so his brother, with Downs Syndrome, was not terrified.  At his SO’s insistence he will get retested Tuesday, (he got tested too early) to make sure he does not have symptomless Delta Covid.

I will not get tested.  I see my youngest son, who is now out of the hospital and at home, every day.  Those with Delta can shed the virus for 21 days, not 14.  I have been vaccinated and I have had the booster, and I am not afraid.  You get covid or you don’t.

I have also had direct conversations with the “Covid” doctors, which you have not, as far as I know.  As I said on previous threads, vaccinated or unvaccinated *does not matter to the catching of the Delta variety of Covid.  It matters to the recovery.  It matters a great deal.*

My youngest son is alive because he was vaccinated and received remdesivir-not some over the counter crap medicine sold and endorsed, to use you favorite word, by idiots @win231   I now urge everyone to get vaccinated and get the booster because I know it is the only chance most  of us have to survive the infection.

But I never cared if the unvaccinated get vaccinated.  It is their right to die.  It is their right to get Covid.  It is their right to get long Covid - something my son won’t get because, according to the Covid docs, the vaccinated don’t get long Covid.

While my son is still fighting Covid, and I am still worried, he looks better every day.  I can not imagine how I would feel if I, as his legal guardian and mother, refused to get him vaccinated and instead of writing in this thread; I was making funeral arrangements.

With my favorite son Joey continuously in my thoughts. I, again, urge everyone to get vaccinated because if a loved one gets Covid and is hospitalized you might only be allowed to visit if you have been vaccinated.

*Do you really want the last sight of a loved one to be via a computer screen or on the phone?  Would you let your frightened child, whatever age, or grandchild or great grandchild die in a hospital among strangers?  I would not.  Would you?

Do not get vaccinated for yourself.  Do not get vaccinated for the “general population”.  Get vaccinated for your family, so you can be there as you have always been there.  Or don’t.  It is your choice.*


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## Aneeda72

chic said:


> While many have taken the vaccine successfully, many have been harmed by it according to Vaers and I do believe those reports, videos and public testimonies I've watched claiming harm from the vaccine just as I believe many of my friends and relatives have had the vaccine without negative side effects, so far.
> 
> But some of those friends and family members are not getting boosters. I suppose they will if coerced, ie - they could lose a job for not being fully vaccinated. In Israel, the most vaccinated country, they are planning a 4th booster! If you do not take all the boosters you lose your "freedom" pass. So you become unvaccinated again.
> 
> I do think Vaers incidents will increase when they vaccinate the children and there is no need for this. It's safer for kids to go unvaccinated for covid statistically.
> 
> View attachment 190825


I hope there is a 4th vaccination here.  If so, I will get a different variety of vaccine.  In fact, I’d like to be vaccinated every 6 months.  The third vaccine laid me on my butt, so to speak, but better that than covid.


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## Shero

chic said:


> While many have taken the vaccine successfully, many have been harmed by it according to Vaers and I do believe those reports, videos and public testimonies I've watched claiming harm from the vaccine just as I believe many of my friends and relatives have had the vaccine without negative side effects, so far.
> 
> But some of those friends and family members are not getting boosters. I suppose they will if coerced, ie - they could lose a job for not being fully vaccinated. In Israel, the most vaccinated country, they are planning a 4th booster! If you do not take all the boosters you lose your "freedom" pass. So you become unvaccinated again.
> 
> I do think Vaers incidents will increase when they vaccinate the children and there is no need for this. It's safer for kids to go unvaccinated for covid statistically.
> 
> View attachment 190825


When this child grows up, she or he will hate their mother for endangering their life !


----------



## Aneeda72

Shero said:


> What you have posted is a Preprint Article. Preprints have not been peer reviewed !!
> 
> Now if you wish to know a little about the “lambda variant” read this, follow the link and play the video: or read the transcript!
> 
> “The first question today is about some of the chatter that we are hearing around the Lambda variant.
> 
> As you know, viruses change, they mutate. Every time a virus replicates, every time a virus copies itself, there is a chance that it might make a mistake in that copy and that's what we call a mutation. Most mutations don't make a change or actually render the virus unviable, which means that they don't pass on. But some mutations give the virus an advantage. If that advantage can be that it transmits itself more, that it makes more copies of itself or that it's harder to combat by our immune system, those advantageous mutations that are advantageous for the virus, not for us, often get selected as part of natural selection and then new variants or strains of the viruses emerge. That's what we have seen with the so-called Delta variant and that is more transmissible that is causing the majority of the outbreaks in Australia at the moment.
> 
> The variants have a complex naming system but, for simplicity, are now getting named by the Greek alphabet letters. We are currently fighting the Delta variant. The dominant strain from last year that was first identified in the UK was the alpha variant, and now we are talking about the Lambda variant which is a variant that was first identified in Peru in December 2020 and it's growing prevalence in South America at the moment. The scientific community is still investigating the context of the Lambda variant and what it means in terms of transmissibility and severity and there is no conclusive data yet. We will keep reviewing what the evidence is and base our public policies on the information that arises. It's important to note as well that the WHO classifies different strains of the virus as variants of interest or variants of concern. A variant of interest is a variety of the virus that may exhibit some of the mutations that give an implication that it may be more transmissible or more severe or have impact into the disease progression,* but until it is understood that that is actually happening within the population they don't get classed as a variant of concern. Delta, the variant that is causing the majority of the transmission in Australia at the moment, is a variant of concern, whereas Lambda at the moment is a variant of interest.* We will keep you updated as more information comes available.
> 
> https://www.health.gov.au/news/top-...nd-getting-a-covid-19-vaccination-whilst-sick
> .


The Delta variant is what people in Utah, USA have 90% of the time.


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## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> @win231 you have taken to called people idiots a lot lately, so here is a suggestion for you:  STOP


Here are two suggestions for YOU.
1.  I'll call _anyone_ an idiot - _after_ they call me an idiot.  _They_ are the idiot for starting it.  Perhaps you might try reading Post #15 so YOU don't look like an idiot as well.

2.  MYOB


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## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> @win231 Sadly the vaccine was NEVER meant to keep people from getting Covid.  Why people keep forgetting this on this forum and in the real world is beyond me.  Unless you have personally dealt with Covid yourself or through family or friends, your yapping is just that, yapping and needless name calling over a subject you have NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE of.
> 
> The vaccine was and is meant to be a protection against severe Covid and death.  Hopefully, it would prevent hospitalization as well.  The saddest breakthrough cases of all those are those that result in death, of course.
> 
> As it was learned that the antibodies drop, a booster was suggested and allowed.  It was not allowed in time for my vaccinated youngest son to get this shot, thus he caught Delta Covid-19 and was hospitalized.  Delta spread like wildfire through the sheltered workshop and the workshop is now closed for two weeks.
> 
> The booster shot was not available to my older son, due to age restriction.  My oldest son has been vaccinated and has had COVID before the vaccine was available.  He sat with his youngest brother, at the hospital, for four hours until I could get there.  Risking catching Delta Covid so his brother, with Downs Syndrome, was not terrified.  At his SO’s insistence he will get retested Tuesday, (he got tested too early) to make sure he does not have symptomless Delta Covid.
> 
> I will not get tested.  I see my youngest son, who is now out of the hospital and at home, every day.  Those with Delta can shed the virus for 21 days, not 14.  I have been vaccinated and I have had the booster, and I am not afraid.  You get covid or you don’t.
> 
> I have also had direct conversations with the “Covid” doctors, which you have not, as far as I know.  As I said on previous threads, vaccinated or unvaccinated *does not matter to the catching of the Delta variety of Covid.  It matters to the recovery.  It matters a great deal.*
> 
> My youngest son is alive because he was vaccinated and received remdesivir-not some over the counter crap medicine sold and endorsed, to use you favorite word, by idiots @win231   I now urge everyone to get vaccinated and get the booster because I know it is the only chance most  of us have to survive the infection.
> 
> But I never cared if the unvaccinated get vaccinated.  It is their right to die.  It is their right to get Covid.  It is their right to get long Covid - something my son won’t get because, according to the Covid docs, the vaccinated don’t get long Covid.
> 
> While my son is still fighting Covid, and I am still worried, he looks better every day.  I can not imagine how I would feel if I, as his legal guardian and mother, refused to get him vaccinated and instead of writing in this thread; I was making funeral arrangements.
> 
> With my favorite son Joey continuously in my thoughts. I, again, urge everyone to get vaccinated because if a loved one gets Covid and is hospitalized you might only be allowed to visit if you have been vaccinated.
> 
> *Do you really want the last sight of a loved one to be via a computer screen or on the phone?  Would you let your frightened child, whatever age, or grandchild or great grandchild die in a hospital among strangers?  I would not.  Would you?
> 
> Do not get vaccinated for yourself.  Do not get vaccinated for the “general population”.  Get vaccinated for your family, so you can be there as you have always been there.  Or don’t.  It is your choice.*


As you rightfully said - in your LAST sentence, it's MY choice.  I need not justify my choice - whether I don't think the vaccine is safe or whether or not I think it's effective.  I have no problem with anyone's choice to get vaccinated.  BUT anyone who ridicules those who don't want to get vaccinated is an idiot.


----------



## Mike

I started this thread with tongue in cheek and a smile, little
did I expect war to break out and some insults thrown in for
good measure.

My vaccinations are up-to-date and I got a booster yesterday,
I don't really care if others are not fully vaccinated, some are
unable for health, or reactions, reasons, these people I worry
about and hope that they stay safe, the more people who are
not vaccinated, the greater the pressure on the health services,
when they get ill with the virus.

There is no good reason to attack each other because they are
or are not vaccinated, just worry about yourself and your loved
ones.

As we have read before, "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst"!

Mike.


----------



## Sassycakes

My husband and I are fully vaccinated. We felt it was better to be safe than sorry. My nephew was in the hospital from November until last month after he contacted the covid. He even needed a double lung transplant among many other issues.


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> As you rightfully said - in your LAST sentence, it's MY choice.  I need not justify my choice - whether I don't think the vaccine is safe or whether or not I think it's effective.  I have no problem with anyone's choice to get vaccinated.  BUT anyone who ridicules those who don't want to get vaccinated is an idiot.


You are the person who is ridicules other people, in case you have not noticed.  You are the aggressor in the covid threads, in case you have not noticed.  But you have stated that you wear a mask to gain accessibility to certain places.  Casinos in Nevada certainly require masks.

@win231 you certainly seem two faced about the whole issue.  Why not go maskless, or refuse to wear a mask and be denied entrance, or stay home?  Put your so called conviction to the true test.  Or are you just trolling the Covid threads?

I personally think you protest too much.  I am beginning to believe you are in the closet about being vaccinated, like a certain past president


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Here are two suggestions for YOU.
> 1.  I'll call _anyone_ an idiot - _after_ they call me an idiot.  _They_ are the idiot for starting it.  Perhaps you might try reading Post #15 so YOU don't look like an idiot as well.
> 
> 2.  MYOB


I don’t mind looking like an idiot to the likes of you, it’s seems to be a complement


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> You are the person who is ridicules other people, in case you have not noticed.  You are the aggressor in the covid threads, in case you have not noticed.  But you have stated that you wear a mask to gain accessibility to certain places.  Casinos in Nevada certainly require masks.
> 
> @win231 you certainly seem two faced about the whole issue.  Why not go maskless, or refuse to wear a mask and be denied entrance, or stay home?  Put your so called conviction to the true test.  Or are you just trolling the Covid threads?
> 
> I personally think you protest too much.  I am beginning to believe you are in the closet about being vaccinated, like a certain past president


Unlike you & a few others here, I respect anyone's right to be vaccinated if they choose.
I will ridicule anyone in retaliation who ridicules me.  (of course you don't want to acknowledge that).
Wearing a mask is required in L.A. County.  That's why I wear one when shopping.  
By choosing not to get vaccinated, I am not protesting anything; I'm making a health decision I have the right to make - with or without your approval.
_If you're not a retired professional comedienne, you could have been._


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> I don’t mind looking like an idiot to the likes of you, it’s seems to be a complement


It's obvious you don't mind.


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> It's obvious you don't mind.


Oh, good, did not want you to feel bad .  Now I got to go walk Stella.  She has choosen not to  get vaccinated for Covid-19 and I have respected her decision.
-just so you know @win231


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> You are the person who is ridicules other people, in case you have not noticed.  You are the aggressor in the covid threads, in case you have not noticed.  But you have stated that you wear a mask to gain accessibility to certain places.  Casinos in Nevada certainly require masks.
> 
> @win231 you certainly seem two faced about the whole issue.  Why not go maskless, or refuse to wear a mask and be denied entrance, or stay home?  Put your so called conviction to the true test.  Or are you just trolling the Covid threads?
> 
> I personally think you protest too much.  I am beginning to believe you are in the closet about being vaccinated, like a certain past president


Yes - I'm vaccinated "In The Closet."  Thanks for reminding me about one of MJ's best videos:


----------



## MrPants

chic said:


> View attachment 190825


A little off topic perhaps but I have a real problem with adults (Moms & Dads in particular) who have children parade around in public with any sort of protest signage. Kids don't have the skill set to research hot topic issues and form their own opinion much less the capacity to understand these types of issues. 

I've seen this kind of display more and more in recent years. I suppose the parents/guardians feel it will bring more attention to their gripe but all I see is something tantamount to child abuse


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Unlike you & a few others here, I respect anyone's right to be vaccinated if they choose.
> I will ridicule anyone in retaliation who ridicules me.  (of course you don't want to acknowledge that).
> Wearing a mask is required in L.A. County.  That's why I wear one when shopping.
> By choosing not to get vaccinated, I am not protesting anything; I'm making a health decision I have the right to make - with or without your approval.
> _If you're not a retired professional comedienne, you could have been._


Yes, I should have been one, and it’s not too late.. I have no ideal what you are talking about I have said, many times, on many threads, in many ways, that *I do not care if someone gets vaccinated or if they do not.  *

We all know that you do not have to go out to shop.  

I have also been clear that I do not care what health decision anyone on the SF or elsewhere make.  The only health decisions I have control over are mine and Joey”s.  I continue to believe you are vaccinated.

Go ahead, call me an idiot again.  Doesn’t bother me in the least.  Or, put me on ignore cause that won’t bother me either.  I am dealing with MAJOR issues right now, you are a refreshing distraction from my heartbreaks  @win231, yes, you are being used , what else have you got?  Go for it!


----------



## win231

MrPants said:


> A little off topic perhaps but I have a real problem with adults (Moms & Dads in particular) who have children parade around in public with any sort of protest signage. Kids don't have the skill set to research hot topic issues and form their own opinion much less the capacity to understand these types of issues.
> 
> I've seen this kind of display more and more in recent years. I suppose the parents/guardians feel it will bring more attention to their gripe but all I see is something tantamount to child abuse


Yes, & this is animal abuse - because dogs don't have the skill set to research hot topics:


----------



## chic

win231 said:


> Yes, & this is animal abuse - because dogs don't have the skill set to research hot topics:



I agree. People have totally lost their sense of humor these days.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Ruthanne said:


> Some people are just plain idiots I swear when it comes to this issue.    I'm not talking about those who don't vaccine for medical reasons either--they have a VALID excuse.
> 
> I'm tired of those who are adding to the death toll and infecting others by not vaccinning and catching this horrid disease!  There personal freedoms are at risk?  And what about the freedom of those others you kill by infecting them, huh?  Is that a joke, too?
> 
> Quit being political about this and own up to helping our society LIVE!!


I agree, those with valid medical reasons verified by their doctors, are the only ones who should not be getting vaccinated.  The unvaccinated are much more likely to spread the COVID-19 to others, and that is a fact.  If these covid deniers would wake up, this country would be in a much better position to start to put this virus behind us, or at least have it in control.


----------



## Ladybj

Shero said:


> Your fluorescent idea is a bit over the top Mike. but  you are correct about one thing.
> The anti vaxxers cult movement have now added to their repertoire that some have had the jab and have become sick and nearly dying. Lies of course, another ploy to scare people.


Shero - anti vaxxers are a cult movement  With your statement, I am still trying to find out who the cult leader is? If you find out please let me know...I don't have a clue.


----------



## Shero

Ladybj said:


> Shero - anti vaxxers are a cult movement  With your statement, I am still trying to find out who the cult leader is? If you find out please let me know...I don't have a clue.



_*Well, if you open the links like an intelligent person would, then you will learn and be educated. *_


----------



## Ladybj

Ruthanne said:


> Some people are just plain idiots I swear when it comes to this issue.    I'm not talking about those who don't vaccine for medical reasons either--they have a VALID excuse.
> 
> I'm tired of those who are adding to the death toll and infecting others by not vaccinning and catching this horrid disease!  There personal freedoms are at risk?  And what about the freedom of those others you kill by infecting them, huh?  Is that a joke, too?
> 
> Quit being political about this and own up to helping our society LIVE!!


But I thought the holy vaccine was helping????  Now there is the Booster?  How many vaccines are there??  I heard there will be a 4th one coming soon.  Too much is too much.  However, we all do what is best for us.  I am seeing first hand how the vaccine is effecting some people.  Again, we all do what is best for us.  So, those that have underlying conditions and told by their dr not to take the vaccine they are not able to spread the virus???????????????


----------



## Ladybj

Shero said:


> _*Well, if you open the links like an intelligent person would, then you will learn and be educated. *_


 So links are the answer?? NO, not for me. Are you calling yourself unintelligent? If not, why would you call me unintelligent because I do not open links that I have no clue as to the authenticity of the information? Sometimes when someone hit a nerve, they are normally looking in a mirror and don't like what they see. What makes you think I am not educating myself? Is it because I am not on board as to what you believe?? Never did I refer you to a link and if you did not open the link, I felt you were are not intelligent. I think you are very intelligent.


----------



## Shero

Ladybj said:


> So links are the answer?? NO, not for me. Are you calling yourself unintelligent? If not, why would you call me unintelligent because I do not open links that I have no clue as to the authenticity of the information? Sometimes when someone hit a nerve, they are normally looking in a mirror and don't like what they see. What makes you think I am not educating myself? Is it because I am not on board as to what you believe?? Never did I refer you to a link and if you did not open the link, I felt you were are not intelligent. I think you are very intelligent.


I would like to blame your silliness on age, but, if I remember correctly, you said you were in your 60s. To me that is not old, so there must be another reason for your repetitive posts.


----------



## Ladybj

Shero said:


> I would like to blame your silliness on age, but, if I remember correctly, you said you were in your 60s. To me that is not old, so there must be another reason for your repetitive posts.



     Yup, in my 60's and loving life. I love your post as well.


----------



## Shero

Ladybj said:


> Yup, in my 60's and loving life. I love your post as well.



If you love life so much, why are you being so negative?


----------



## SeaBreeze

Aneeda72 said:


> @win231 Sadly the vaccine was NEVER meant to keep people from getting Covid. Why people keep forgetting this on this forum and in the real world is beyond me. Unless you have personally dealt with Covid yourself or through family or friends, your yapping is just that, yapping and needless name calling over a subject you have NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE of.
> 
> The vaccine was and is meant to be a protection against severe Covid and death. Hopefully, it would prevent hospitalization as well. The saddest breakthrough cases of all those are those that result in death, of course.
> 
> As it was learned that the antibodies drop, a booster was suggested and allowed. It was not allowed in time for my vaccinated youngest son to get this shot, thus he caught Delta Covid-19 and was hospitalized. Delta spread like wildfire through the sheltered workshop and the workshop is now closed for two weeks.


Well said, thank you.


----------



## win231

Ladybj said:


> Shero - anti vaxxers are a cult movement  With your statement, I am still trying to find out who the cult leader is? If you find out please let me know...I don't have a clue.


Their cult leader is Reverend Jim Bakker.


----------



## win231

Ladybj said:


> So links are the answer?? NO, not for me. Are you calling yourself unintelligent? If not, why would you call me unintelligent because I do not open links that I have no clue as to the authenticity of the information? Sometimes when someone hit a nerve, they are normally looking in a mirror and don't like what they see. What makes you think I am not educating myself? Is it because I am not on board as to what you believe?? Never did I refer you to a link and if you did not open the link, I felt you were are not intelligent. I think you are very intelligent.


You're not educated because you don't sprinkle French words in your posts like.......educated people do.


----------



## Aneeda72

Ladybj said:


> But I thought the holy vaccine was helping????  Now there is the Booster?  How many vaccines are there??  I heard there will be a 4th one coming soon.  Too much is too much.  However, we all do what is best for us.  I am seeing first hand how the vaccine is effecting some people.  Again, we all do what is best for us.  So, those that have underlying conditions and told by their dr not to take the vaccine they are not able to spread the virus???????????????


I think the FOURTH vaccine may be specifically to address the Delta variant.  I was anxious to get the first two vaccines, thrilled to get the booster, and I will get the fourth shot, if there, is one and be grateful for it.

As you say, we all do what we think is best for us, the rest of my family will follow this path as well. Cause we all think this is best for all of us.  You need to do what is best for you and yours.

The unvaccinated can only spread the virus if they have the virus.  When most people have the virus they are responsible enough or sick enough to isolate, a few are not, of course.  Once people have the virus, they add to the herd immunity.

But, unfortunately, the Delta variant has changed everything we thought we knew.  I do not blame anyone for my son Joey getting the delta virus.  But as soon as he is well enough he will get the booster.  This is what the COVID-19 doctor, the expert, at the hospital said.  As soon as he is well, he needs to get the booster.  I can assure you he will.


----------



## Aneeda72

Shero said:


> _*Well, if you open the links like an intelligent person would, then you will learn and be educated. *_


Well, I thought I was somewhat intelligent, my IQ test says I am intelligent, but I rarely open links.  I just don’t care enough to do so.  .  When you @Shero say something like this, due to frustration, you paint everyone who acts in that manner with the same brush.

Somewhat like win who calls everyone who does not agree with him an idiot.


----------



## chic

They are giving 4th shots in Israel so I guess people in other countries can expect that as well.


----------



## Shero

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, I thought I was somewhat intelligent, my IQ test says I am intelligent, but I rarely open links.  I just don’t care enough to do so.  .  When you @Shero say something like this, due to frustration, you paint everyone who acts in that manner with the same brush.
> 
> Somewhat like win who calls everyone who does not agree with him an idiot.


Really???? If a person does not open links or go find the information for themselves, then they are not equipped to answer the relevant question!!
.


----------



## Aneeda72

Shero said:


> Really???? If a person does not open links or go find the information for themselves, then they are not equipped to answer the relevant question!!
> .


Well, I don’t know what the relevant question is that you refer to; but I had a long conversation with my son’s Covid doctor while I visited my son in his room at the hospital.  I have “reported” parts of that conversation, but I can’t provide a link to it.

Does my inability to provide a link make my statements untrue?  I don’t know.  We all believe what we believe.  But I do know this, I could care less about links.  Six members of my very small family have had Covid, the youngest was 2 years old and the oldest 52.  I have very up close and personal knowledge of this horrific virus.

But, , I don’t have any links.


----------



## Sunny

> While many have taken the vaccine successfully, many have been harmed by it according to Vaers and I do believe those reports, videos and public testimonies I've watched claiming harm from the vaccine just as I believe many of my friends and relatives have had the vaccine without negative side effects, so far.


Chic, that "many have been harmed by it" is a bogus bit of scare tactics, probably promulgated for political purposes. You seem to be scared to death of the vaccine, so obviously you are ready to believe it.

 Of course, it partly depends on your definition of "many."  How many are you talking about?  Out of millions who received the vaccine with mild side effects (or none), maybe three had serious side effects?  Ten?  A hundred?  Whatever the number is, if it's even true at all, how does it compare with the number who have died of this killer of a disease?


----------



## Sunny

Ladybj said:


> Shero - anti vaxxers are a cult movement  With your statement, I am still trying to find out who the cult leader is? If you find out please let me know...I don't have a clue.


Ladybj, who is the cult leader?  You really have to ask?


----------



## Aneeda72

Sunny said:


> Ladybj, who is the cult leader?  You really have to ask?


We all know who the cult leader is, which is why Sunny is laughing.  I will PM you.  You can agree or not.  Doesn’t matter to me.


----------



## ManjaroKDE

I don't open inserted links either!

*'Anyone can create/post/publish anything they want on the web without fear of consequences'*

That being said here's you a link.

https://www.culteducation.com/

Rick Ross was a positive source of information when I was getting out of my born-into religious cult back in the 80's.


----------



## Mike

chic said:


> They are giving 4th shots in Israel so I guess people in other countries can expect that as well.


Israel was believed to be the most informed and up to date
country in the World about treating the virus, they used the
Russian Sputnik Vaccine and had excellent results from it, they
thought that they had it beaten, but so many variants came
along, so they had to go for a booster, they worked too, but
reports are coming out of the country that they may need a
fourth and possibly an annual shot to help.

I believe that 98% of the population there are vaccinated and
the others are probably exempt.

If anybody needs a link, Google has them all, just ask there.

Mike.


----------



## chic

Sunny said:


> Chic, that "many have been harmed by it" is a bogus bit of scare tactics, probably promulgated for political purposes. You seem to be scared to death of the vaccine, so obviously you are ready to believe it.
> 
> Of course, it partly depends on your definition of "many."  How many are you talking about?  Out of millions who received the vaccine with mild side effects (or none), maybe three had serious side effects?  Ten?  A hundred?  Whatever the number is, if it's even true at all, how does it compare with the number who have died of this killer of a disease?


In July 2021, I watched 1,000 Vaers videos of people who had negative side effects from this vaccine. Some were left paralyzed. Some had developed seizures. Some were sickened and could no longer take care of themselves. Some were family members reporting on the death of a loved one. None of the sick had recovered. 

If this vaccine is so safe, why is there no product liability? If you have a negative side effect, you are on your own to solve the problem and THAT becomes very much my problem with this vaccine.

People can call me stupid, uneducated, or a conspiracy theorist. That's fine. I don't care anymore. After 20 months of this I'm surprised anyone still believes those feigning knowledge and leadership over this issue. All they have given us is strife, mandates and more division than I have ever seen in my lifetime.


----------



## Aneeda72

chic said:


> In July 2021, I watched 1,000 Vaers videos of people who had negative side effects from this vaccine. Some were left paralyzed. Some had developed seizures. Some were sickened and could no longer take care of themselves. Some were family members reporting on the death of a loved one. None of the sick had recovered.
> 
> If this vaccine is so safe, why is there no product liability? If you have a negative side effect, you are on your own to solve the problem and THAT becomes very much my problem with this vaccine.
> 
> People can call me stupid, uneducated, or a conspiracy theorist. That's fine. I don't care anymore. After 20 months of this I'm surprised anyone still believes those feigning knowledge and leadership over this issue. All they have given us is strife, mandates and more division than I have ever seen in my lifetime.


Well, I won’t call you names, I think name calling is awful..as for watching videos, well, hmm, gee, lots of videos are called movies, and anything can be faked in a movie.  Just saying-unless you have seen it in person, it can be faked.


----------



## Mike

There seems to be a lot of claims of harm and even deaths
in America, all linked the vaccinations, yet there are very few,
reported here, or even other European countries, at least I
haven't read or heard any reports that I can remember, this
makes me wonder why, are your versions of the vaccine not
safe, or are the stories of harm and deaths, just that stories,
with some powerful backers?

Hopefully they are just stories to frighten people and to stop
them from having the jabs, but why, to damage the company
that made a vaccine, by a disgruntled other company who was
refused a licence.

I find it sad that such reports are out there.

Mike.


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, I thought I was somewhat intelligent, my IQ test says I am intelligent, but I rarely open links.  I just don’t care enough to do so.  .  When you @Shero say something like this, due to frustration, you paint everyone who acts in that manner with the same brush.
> 
> Somewhat like win who calls everyone who does not agree with him an idiot.


It's called "Give & Take."  You ridicule me, you get ridiculed back.  The idiot is the one who starts it.


----------



## win231

chic said:


> In July 2021, I watched 1,000 Vaers videos of people who had negative side effects from this vaccine. Some were left paralyzed. Some had developed seizures. Some were sickened and could no longer take care of themselves. Some were family members reporting on the death of a loved one. None of the sick had recovered.
> 
> If this vaccine is so safe, why is there no product liability? If you have a negative side effect, you are on your own to solve the problem and THAT becomes very much my problem with this vaccine.
> 
> People can call me stupid, uneducated, or a conspiracy theorist. That's fine. I don't care anymore. After 20 months of this I'm surprised anyone still believes those feigning knowledge and leadership over this issue. All they have given us is strife, mandates and more division than I have ever seen in my lifetime.


No product liability is for their protection.  When a vaccine causes a problem, they'll say, _"Well, nobody forced you to take it."_


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, I thought I was somewhat intelligent, my IQ test says I am intelligent, but I rarely open links.  I just don’t care enough to do so.  .  When you @Shero say something like this, due to frustration, you paint everyone who acts in that manner with the same brush.
> 
> Somewhat like win who calls everyone who does not agree with him an idiot.


Oh, no.  I'd never call anyone an idiot if they spoke some French!


----------



## Shero




----------



## Shero

win231 said:


> Oh, no.  I'd never call anyone an idiot if they spoke some French!



Ever heard of Covid Karma? Ne t’inquiète pas petit homme, it exists!!
.


----------



## Shero

win231 said:


> You're not educated because you don't sprinkle French words in your posts like.......educated people do.


Ever heard this???   *He or Shero who laughs last, laughs longest!! 
Keep laughing.*



​


----------



## Ruthanne

And don't forget there are probably a good deal of unvaccinated who catch covid and are Asymptomatic--they spread this virus unknowingly.  They do not stay inside or quarantine because they have NO idea they have it.  Getting the vaccines helps lower the rate of catching the virus as proven already.  So then if the unvaccinated get the vaccine they are not as likely to spread covid if asymptomatic.  

This is probably falling on deaf ears or those who wish to laugh at this deadly virus defiantly.  May you stay healthy and not spread it--the unvaccinated should keep their distance from others and wear a mask for they could be asymptomatic and have the virus.  These folks need to take this seriously like a heart attack.  This is NO laughing matter.  Almost 3/4 of a million lives lost to this already- partially because of ignorance I believe--ignorance in not educating themselves fully about this disease.  And then not protecting themselves and others because that's what we need to do to eradicate this virus.


----------



## Purwell

I've been informed that I should not have the booster but a third dose of the original AZ vaccine.
I'm not really sure why but it is all tied into the treatment that I have been having for leukaemia.


----------



## chic

win231 said:


> Oh, no.  I'd never call anyone an idiot if they spoke some French!


Je suis heureuse mon cher win.


----------



## Shero

chic said:


> Je suis heureuse mon cher win.


Is that a "pacifist" comment  chic?


----------



## Shero

"Welcome to the first in a series where The Australian will expose anti-vaxxer lies. We’ll keep it rolling over the next few months, during what is a critical time for the nation.

Australia has a proud history of vaccination, including high rates of early childhood vaccination. Yes, some of those figures went into an alarming decline in recent times, driven by anti-vaxxer activism but with some sensible tweaking of government policy by the Abbott government, those high rates of childhood vaccination are for the most part back to where they should be.

To be clear, an anti-vaxxer is not someone who is vaccine hesitant, nor indeed anyone who chooses not to receive a vaccination. The best working definition of an anti-vaxxer is someone who, by fair means or foul, seeks to persuade other people not to get vaccinated.

Anti-vaxxers are often organised, have web presences and social media accounts where they lure in the susceptible, the gullible and the vulnerable with misinformation and outright lies. Anti-vaxxers have become more unhinged, more desperate, more willing to peddle absolute falsehoods, fabrications including despicable threats aimed at our frontline health workers.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/co...t/news-story/cc4fa296d7df82ae2e48e5cef0646ad7


----------



## Shero

The anti-vaxxers who invade your mind and use your gullibility and inability to think for yourself, do not care about you. They are too busy using you to make money for themselves.

Anti vaxxing is big business and you don’t even know you are their money maker. Very sad for you because, these people have had their vaccines (they are not stupid!) but you who believe them, have not and end up on a ventilator in hospital.

.


----------



## Shero

When people like win and his disciples make fun of others whose spelling sometimes miss the mark or when they lapse into another language, then I think one has to sympathise with their insecurities. Maybe one day they will get over their childish anti social behavior but I will not hold my breath. My husband and I are both French we speak both English and French at home so it is easy to do so in other areas. My writing is in French, so win, I do not "sprinkle" French words to entertain you. GROW UP!
.


----------



## Shero

Today for the first time, I saw this post and for the first time I read it.  Seems to me people like win has never read it:

[/HEADING]
[HEADING=3]Matrix​Admin​There are opinions in this forum which are based on disinformation, conspiracies, and information from questionable sources. Please research the facts from reputable sites like the CDC before taking anyone's opinion as fact about COVID-19 or related vaccinations.

If Matrix objects to my copy and pasting the above, kindly remove.
.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Ruthanne said:


> And don't forget there are probably a good deal of unvaccinated who catch covid and are Asymptomatic--they spread this virus unknowingly.  They do not stay inside or quarantine because they have NO idea they have it.  Getting the vaccines helps lower the rate of catching the virus as proven already.  So then if the unvaccinated get the vaccine they are not as likely to spread covid if asymptomatic.
> 
> This is probably falling on deaf ears or those who wish to laugh at this deadly virus defiantly.  May you stay healthy and not spread it--the unvaccinated should keep their distance from others and wear a mask for they could be asymptomatic and have the virus.  These folks need to take this seriously like a heart attack.  This is NO laughing matter.  Almost 3/4 of a million lives lost to this already- partially because of ignorance I believe--ignorance in not educating themselves fully about this disease.  And then not protecting themselves and others because that's what we need to do to eradicate this virus.


Well said Ruthanne, we need to get a handle on this virus together, as a country.  Those who complain most about masks, vaccines and mandates are the ones prolonging this pandemic and hindering our trying to return to normal life.  The Delta variant has made it more difficult, but the vaccinations and boosters will help us avoid hospitalization and death.  Those who complain about how long it's been here, are the ones doing nothing about it.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Shero said:


> Today for the first time, I saw this post and for the first time I read it.  Seems to me people like win has never read it:
> 
> [/HEADING][/HEADING][/HEADING]
> [HEADING=3][HEADING=3][HEADING=3]Matrix​Admin​There are opinions in this forum which are based on disinformation, conspiracies, and information from questionable sources. Please research the facts from reputable sites like the CDC before taking anyone's opinion as fact about COVID-19 or related vaccinations.
> 
> If Matrix objects to my copy and pasting the above, kindly remove.
> .


I think it's good to remind people what he said.  It may help someone who is just learning the facts, not to be persuaded by falsehoods and fantasies.  Easy for someone to go down that rabbit hole, we hear about it all the time on social media like facebook, twitter, etc.  I don't belong to them, but I hear about the conspiracies being spread, and it's dangerous and bad for our country and the world.

This is the link to the disclaimer.  Those you posted just go to his profile page.
https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/disclaimer-and-reminder.62672/


----------



## win231

Shero said:


> When people like win and his disciples make fun of others whose spelling sometimes miss the mark or when they lapse into another language, then I think one has to sympathise with their insecurities. Maybe one day they will get over their childish anti social behavior but I will not hold my breath. My husband and I are both French we speak both English and French at home so it is easy to do so in other areas. My writing is in French, so win, I do not "sprinkle" French words to entertain you. GROW UP!
> .


No, you do not sprinkle French words to entertain anyone.  You do it because you think it impresses people & makes you appear intelligent.


----------



## Shero

win231 said:


> No, you do not sprinkle French words to entertain anyone.  You do it because you think it impresses people & makes you appear intelligent.



Je suis certainement plus intelligent que toi. Je ne trolle pas les gens, comme toi. Je ne suis pas ennuyeux comme toi. Je suis vraiment intelligent. Je sais que tu aimerais être comme moi.


----------



## Devi

Le Ignore button is a great thing.


----------



## Shero

Devi said:


> Le Ignore button is a great thing.


Thanks for the tip Devi, but I would rather not use Le Ignore button. I like to see what baloney some people post, it amuses me


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> It's called "Give & Take."  You ridicule me, you get ridiculed back.  The idiot is the one who starts it.


You really, really like the word “idiot”.  Did your parents use it a lot when you were a child?


----------



## Aneeda72

Purwell said:


> I've been informed that I should not have the booster but a third dose of the original AZ vaccine.
> I'm not really sure why but it is all tied into the treatment that I have been having for leukaemia.


I think the booster had less medicine in it.  Since you are getting treatment, your immune system is comprised and that’s why you would need another full dose.  Also, your doctors might have noticed that your antibodies for Covid were especially low.  All speculation on my part, of course.


----------



## Aneeda72

Shero said:


> When people like win and his disciples make fun of others whose spelling sometimes miss the mark or when they lapse into another language, then I think one has to sympathise with their insecurities. Maybe one day they will get over their childish anti social behavior but I will not hold my breath. My husband and I are both French we speak both English and French at home so it is easy to do so in other areas. My writing is in French, so win, I do not "sprinkle" French words to entertain you. GROW UP!
> .


I think win has been vaccinated and simply trolls the Covid sites.  As I understand win is in California, USA, the virus was so bad there most people either got vaccinated or left.

A lot of them moved to Utah, along with the people who left New York and New Jersey.  Clogging up our highways and stores, thankfully making our houses cost more, and diluting the major religion in this area.  But win has stayed in California.


----------



## Aneeda72

Ladybj said:


> But I thought the holy vaccine was helping????  Now there is the Booster?  How many vaccines are there??  I heard there will be a 4th one coming soon.  Too much is too much.  However, we all do what is best for us.  I am seeing first hand how the vaccine is effecting some people.  Again, we all do what is best for us.  So, those that have underlying conditions and told by their dr not to take the vaccine they are not able to spread the virus???????????????


You can only spread the virus if you get the virus


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> No, you do not sprinkle French words to entertain anyone.  You do it because you think it impresses people & makes you appear intelligent.


@win, so now you read minds?  Oh, good, read mine and see what I think of this comment.


----------



## Sunny

Shero said:


> *Je suis certainement plus intelligent que toi.* Je ne trolle pas les gens, comme toi. Je ne suis pas ennuyeux comme toi. Je suis vraiment intelligent. Je sais que tu aimerais être comme moi.


Shero, mais oui, c'est vrai! En realite, c'est vrai pour tout le monde. Il est un peuril idiot, sans education.  

BTW, I agree about "le ignore" button. It reminds me of children sticking their fingers in their ears so they don't hear what they don't like to hear. And I'd always wonder what I am missing.

To get back to the subject, I think we have all expressed our feelings and our level of understanding about this killer disease and what to do about it. Many of us have expressed it many times over. It's pretty clear by now who is thinking rationally, and who is following the mandate of the cult. And make no mistake about it, all this engineered fear and ridicule of a highly effective vaccine comes from a cult designed to attract blindly ignorant followers. Some of the insane beliefs encouraged by this cult are mind-boggling; yet, a few people on this forum have actually believed them!

Somebody got the vaccine and shortly afterward died of a heart attack, or cancer, or whatever?  Oh, hooray, time to start a new topic about how the vaccine kills people!

It's also human nature to hate admitting we were misled, and followed the wrong leaders.  My hat's off to those who started out following the cult mentality but finally realized that their health and possibly their life was at stake, and got the vaccine, as any sane, rational person would do. (Except for those relatively few who really can't get the vaccine for medical reasons).  As new facts emerge, it is a mark of intelligence to adapt to them. This is true of religion, politics, and following the advice of medical science instead of the rantings on slanted TV channels and social media.

Sadly, the longer the anti-vaxxer mentality prevails, the longer this pandemic will go on. The masks help, but don't get rid of the problem. The only way to put an end to it is to have enough people (worldwide) vaccinated to allow herd immunity to kick in. Those who are refusing to do it are part of the problem.


----------



## win231

Shero said:


> The anti-vaxxers who invade your mind and use your gullibility and inability to think for yourself, do not care about you. They are too busy using you to make money for themselves.
> 
> Anti vaxxing is big business and you don’t even know you are their money maker. Very sad for you because, these people have had their vaccines (they are not stupid!) but you who believe them, have not and end up on a ventilator in hospital.
> 
> .


There's big money in anti-vaxxing.  How do you think I paid for my new car?


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> There's big money in anti-vaxxing.  How do you think I paid for my new car?


Hmm, old man with walker standing on the corner with cardboard sign which says “need money social security is not enough.”  Just how much money did you make @win231?  We all want to know


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> Hmm, old man with walker standing on the corner with cardboard sign which says “need money social security is not enough.”  Just how much money did you make @win231?  We all want to know


$41,000.00


----------



## chic

Shero said:


> Is that a "pacifist" comment  chic?


No. I told win I'm happy.


----------



## Shero

Sunny said:


> Shero, mais oui, c'est vrai! En realite, c'est vrai pour tout le monde. Il est un peuril idiot, sans education.
> 
> BTW, I agree about "le ignore" button. It reminds me of children sticking their fingers in their ears so they don't hear what they don't like to hear. And I'd always wonder what I am missing.
> 
> To get back to the subject, I think we have all expressed our feelings and our level of understanding about this killer disease and what to do about it. Many of us have expressed it many times over. It's pretty clear by now who is thinking rationally, and who is following the mandate of the cult. And make no mistake about it, all this engineered fear and ridicule of a highly effective vaccine comes from a cult designed to attract blindly ignorant followers. Some of the insane beliefs encouraged by this cult are mind-boggling; yet, a few people on this forum have actually believed them!
> 
> Somebody got the vaccine and shortly afterward died of a heart attack, or cancer, or whatever?  Oh, hooray, time to start a new topic about how the vaccine kills people!
> 
> It's also human nature to hate admitting we were misled, and followed the wrong leaders.  My hat's off to those who started out following the cult mentality but finally realized that their health and possibly their life was at stake, and got the vaccine, as any sane, rational person would do. (Except for those relatively few who really can't get the vaccine for medical reasons).  As new facts emerge, it is a mark of intelligence to adapt to them. This is true of religion, politics, and following the advice of medical science instead of the rantings on slanted TV channels and social media.
> 
> Sadly, the longer the anti-vaxxer mentality prevails, the longer this pandemic will go on. The masks help, but don't get rid of the problem. The only way to put an end to it is to have enough people (worldwide) vaccinated to allow herd immunity to kick in. Those who are refusing to do it are part of the problem.


Je suis content que vous soyez d'accord. Il est presque impossible d'avoir de la patience avec une telle ignorance. Sigh !

Your eloquent post says it very well and I firmly agree with everything you have written !
.


----------



## chic

Sunny said:


> Shero, mais oui, c'est vrai! En realite, c'est vrai pour tout le monde. Il est un peuril idiot, sans education.
> 
> BTW, I agree about "le ignore" button. It reminds me of children sticking their fingers in their ears so they don't hear what they don't like to hear. And I'd always wonder what I am missing.
> 
> To get back to the subject, I think we have all expressed our feelings and our level of understanding about this killer disease and what to do about it. Many of us have expressed it many times over. It's pretty clear by now who is thinking rationally, and who is following the mandate of the cult. And make no mistake about it, all this engineered fear and ridicule of a highly effective vaccine comes from a cult designed to attract blindly ignorant followers. Some of the insane beliefs encouraged by this cult are mind-boggling; yet, a few people on this forum have actually believed them!
> 
> Somebody got the vaccine and shortly afterward died of a heart attack, or cancer, or whatever?  Oh, hooray, time to start a new topic about how the vaccine kills people!
> 
> It's also human nature to hate admitting we were misled, and followed the wrong leaders.  My hat's off to those who started out following the cult mentality but finally realized that their health and possibly their life was at stake, and got the vaccine, as any sane, rational person would do. (Except for those relatively few who really can't get the vaccine for medical reasons).  As new facts emerge, it is a mark of intelligence to adapt to them. This is true of religion, politics, and following the advice of medical science instead of the rantings on slanted TV channels and social media.
> 
> Sadly, the longer the anti-vaxxer mentality the longer the problem.


Even in French you think freedom lovers are uneducated and idiots. Better watch it. French isn't unheard of in the U.S. Actually if those you call anti vaxxers don't succeed in their cause this pandemic really will never end. The noose will become tighter and tighter. The govt. won't give back the rights you sacrificed upon the altar of media driven fear 20 months ago. The  elites don't even like you or any of us. We're nothing to them. Some of us know this and push back. Others don't want to believe it so they comply.


----------



## Shero

chic said:


> Even in French you think freedom lovers are uneducated and idiots. Better watch it. French isn't unheard of in the U.S. Actually if those you call anti vaxxers don't succeed in their cause this pandemic really will never end. The noose will become tighter and tighter. The govt. won't give back the rights you sacrificed upon the altar of media driven fear 20 months ago. The  elites don't even like you or any of us. We're nothing to them. Some of us know this and push back. Others don't want to believe it so they comply.


Sigh!!!


----------



## Ladybj

Shero said:


> If you love life so much, why are you being so negative?


I am not negative...that is your perception.   Do I have to agree with you to love life????????  I think NOT!!!!  You have every right as to how you feel and an intelligent person will understand I have a right as to how I feel.


----------



## Ladybj

win231 said:


> You're not educated because you don't sprinkle French words in your posts like.......educated people do.


Win is that what it is??? Hmmmm maybe you on to something.


----------



## Shero

Ladybj said:


> I am not negative...that is your perception.   Do I have to agree with you to love life????????  I think NOT!!!!  You have every right as to how you feel and an intelligent person will understand I have a right as to how I feel.


Since I am a pacifist, I agree. Now how is your hubby doing ?


----------



## Ladybj

Aneeda72 said:


> I think the FOURTH vaccine may be specifically to address the Delta variant.  I was anxious to get the first two vaccines, thrilled to get the booster, and I will get the fourth shot, if there, is one and be grateful for it.
> 
> As you say, we all do what we think is best for us, the rest of my family will follow this path as well. Cause we all think this is best for all of us.  You need to do what is best for you and yours.
> 
> The unvaccinated can only spread the virus if they have the virus.  When most people have the virus they are responsible enough or sick enough to isolate, a few are not, of course.  Once people have the virus, they add to the herd immunity.
> 
> But, unfortunately, the Delta variant has changed everything we thought we knew.  I do not blame anyone for my son Joey getting the delta virus.  But as soon as he is well enough he will get the booster.  This is what the COVID-19 doctor, the expert, at the hospital said.  As soon as he is well, he needs to get the booster.  I can assure you he will.



I agree, we all do what is best for us.  I am surprised your son dr informed him to get the booster..however, he is the doctor and he knows best.  My second mom was told not to get the vaccine after having covid pneuomia.  My hubby said he will not be getting the booster due to blood counts high on certain blood test.  We all respond to meds, etc. differently. One size does not fit all.  I am praying for your son's speedy recovery.


----------



## Ladybj

Sunny said:


> Ladybj, who is the cult leader?  You really have to ask?


Whomever it is, they are not my cult leader.


----------



## Ladybj

No disrespect to anyone but I am a bit confused on a Cult Leader for people that do not feel the vaccine is for them.  I have not seen a post from anyone that has not been vaccinated saying people that are vaccinated belong to a cult.  Now wouldn't that sound a bit ridiculous???  You vaccinated - GREAT - you not GREAT.  I took the flu vaccine over 30 years because I felt everyone was doing it so why not... I learned the hard way.  I got soooo sick.  Never took it again and have not gotten it since.  I doubt if I follow the leader on the c-vaccine. It's being pushed too hard and too many unanswered questions.


----------



## Ellen Marie

Ruthanne said:


> The link with vaccine rates by CNN is not very good.  It doesn't tell a *whole* lot.  It has mistakes on it for sure that are easily identifiable.
> 
> Let's not be ALARMIST!  The vaccines have proven to help those who get them to not be seriously ill if they get covid.  Of course as also already determined the vaccines are not foolproof but a HELLUVA LOT better than not getting it!!  So, die if you must but hopefully I won't and those who have gotten the vaccines and boosters will prevail.
> 
> That national library link is also not very reliable.  Try and go by the USA reports.  They seem to be the most reliable.


So...only what you personally recommend is reliable and your judgement overrides everyone else?   Do I read you correctly.... no other opinions allowed unless you agree to them???????????????????????????????????????????????  Do you own this forum or do you just think you do?


----------



## win231

Ellen Marie said:


> So...only what you personally recommend is reliable and your judgement overrides everyone else?   Do I read you correctly.... no other opinions allowed unless you agree to them???????????????????????????????????????????????  Do you own this forum or do you just think you do?


Some individuals on this forum have been waiting their whole lives to dictate what others' opinions must be.


----------



## chic

win231 said:


> Some individuals on this forum have been waiting their whole lives to dictate what others' opinions must be.


I get that feeling too. Covid has given them the opportunity.


----------



## Mike

This thread has turned disrespectful and poisonous, if you
dislike each other so much, go and start a fight in a thread
designed for that purpose, instead spoiling one started by me.

Mike.


----------



## Shero

Heard on the news Australia is the second country after Israel to offer booster vaccines to all ages.  Starting in a few days.  Wonderful news !!!

https://www.health.gov.au/ministers...al-for-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-booster-dose-0


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Some individuals on this forum have been waiting their whole lives to dictate what others' opinions must be.


 @win231 you are confused, let me help.  I have not waited “my entire life to dictate what others’ opinions must be”, especially on SF.  I started dictating what others‘ opinions would be the second, THE SECOND, my first child was born.

It is the same with most people on SF, does not matter if they have children or not, as most people on the forum have their own life.  The minute we all left home, we started dictating, to others, that we would direct our own lives and they could adjust their opinions or move on.

The only one I have noticed trying to “dictate what others’ opinions must be” on the Covid threads, is the person who continually calls people idiots and questions their intelligence when they don’t agree with his opinion. I like this person, I really do.  But his opinion is just that, his opinion-nothing more.

This person should learn to present his opinion without name calling, but then, he would get less attention.  And, I believe he likes/needs attention.  So keep on, keeping on, it’s entertaining, but no one really cares.


----------



## chic

Mike said:


> This thread has turned disrespectful and poisonous, if you
> dislike each other so much, go and start a fight in a thread
> designed for that purpose, instead spoiling one started by me.
> 
> Mike.


I apologize, Mike, if I spoiled your thread in any way.


----------



## Sunny

chic said:


> Even in French you think freedom lovers are uneducated and idiots. Better watch it. French isn't unheard of in the U.S. Actually if those you call anti vaxxers don't succeed in their cause this pandemic really will never end. The noose will become tighter and tighter. The govt. won't give back the rights you sacrificed upon the altar of media driven fear 20 months ago. The  elites don't even like you or any of us. We're nothing to them. Some of us know this and push back. Others don't want to believe it so they comply.


Chic, go back to French class.  Where did I call _anti-vaxxers_ idiots?  "Il est" is singular. One.  And he is not an idiot because he is an anti-vaxxer. So take a deep breath and stop putting words into people's mouths.

If someone is consistently behaving like a troublemaking 10-year-old, constantly provoking fights on a forum for his own amusement, making fun of someone because (oh, merde!) she uses a few French words now and then, IMO he deserves to be called an idiot. One person. Got it?

I do believe that many of the anti-vaxxers have been misled down a path that can easily lead them (and others around them) to disease and death.  That does not make them idiots, but they are following dangerous leadership.

And Ladybj, you should go back to English class!   " Whomever it is, they are not my cult leader? "

It's whoever, not whomever. Incorrectly using what you think is fancy English does not convince anybody of anything.


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> @win231 you are confused, let me help.  I have not waited “my entire life to dictate what others’ opinions must be”, especially on SF.  I started dictating what others‘ opinions would be the second, THE SECOND, my first child was born.
> 
> It is the same with most people on SF, does not matter if they have children or not, as most people on the forum have their own life.  The minute we all left home, we started dictating, to others, that we would direct our own lives and they could adjust their opinions or move on.
> 
> The only one I have noticed trying to “dictate what others’ opinions must be” on the Covid threads, is the person who continually calls people idiots and questions their intelligence when they don’t agree with his opinion. I like this person, I really do.  But his opinion is just that, his opinion-nothing more.
> 
> This person should learn to present his opinion without name calling, but then, he would get less attention.  And, I believe he likes/needs attention.  So keep on, keeping on, it’s entertaining, but no one really cares.


It's quite obvious _you _care.  And you pretend not to grasp the concept of tit for tat.


----------



## GAlady

Ladybj said:


> No disrespect to anyone but I am a bit confused on a Cult Leader for people that do not feel the vaccine is for them.  I have not seen a post from anyone that has not been vaccinated saying people that are vaccinated belong to a cult.  Now wouldn't that sound a bit ridiculous???  You vaccinated - GREAT - you not GREAT.  I took the flu vaccine over 30 years because I felt everyone was doing it so why not... I learned the hard way.  I got soooo sick.  Never took it again and have not gotten it since.  I doubt if I follow the leader on the c-vaccine. It's being pushed too hard and too many unanswered questions.


I have not taken the Covid Vaccines and have no intention to.  I live in an Assisted Living and only one other Resident has refused to be vaccinated.  Here in our facility, the only ones that have gotten Covid were the vaccinated.  Two have died.  one was on a ventilator.  Think I will take my chances.                                                                      

Some of the staff have not been vaccinated and it is mandated by December 15th.  Biden’s stupid mandate for businesses.  I told them they ought to walk off.  Some of the real “old timers” here say they don’t want to be around the unvaccinated.  They don’t know that I am not.. In case they start mandated for all Residents, I have already talked to an Attorney.  Would have to see them in court.


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> It's quite obvious _you _care.  And you pretend not to grasp the concept of tit for tat.


 oh, I grasp the concept.  Go ahead and tit for tat me.

My life is very sad right now, I am very sad right now, so playing in the sand box, with a challenging friend (yes, friend), helps keep me grounded and off a mental ward at the hospital.  For once, your trolling is actually appreciated.  Enjoy the attention while it lasts.


----------



## Aneeda72

GAlady said:


> I have not taken the Covid Vaccines and have no intention to.  I live in an Assisted Living and only one other Resident has refused to be vaccinated.  Here in our facility, the only ones that have gotten Covid were the vaccinated.  Two have died.  one was on a ventilator.  Think I will take my chances.
> 
> Some of the staff have not been vaccinated and it is mandated by December 15th.  Biden’s stupid mandate for businesses.  I told them they ought to walk off.  Some of the real “old timers” here say they don’t want to be around the unvaccinated.  They don’t know that I am not.. In case they start mandated for all Residents, I have already talked to an Attorney.  Would have to see them in court.


Well, lots of luck.  Court costs money, and in most states assisted living takes all your money but leaves you about 25 dollars a month.  With most everyone around you vaccinated, you may think you have nothing to worry about, but you are in an at risk population, and Delta is a game changer.

I thought my vaccinated son Joey was safe as everyone in his environment was vaccinated.  I was so wrong.  . Many of the clients in the sheltered workshop have Covid and the workshop closed for two weeks, because so many got Delta.  But you have the right to not be vaccinated.


----------



## win231

chic said:


> I get that feeling too. Covid has given them the opportunity.


I posted about one such fool a year ago.  Remember those long lines at markets when they only let a few people in at a time?  
One guy in line decided to take a cart with him while he waited in line.  Another guy approached him & said, "Sir, you're not supposed to have your cart with you while you're in line; you're supposed to get your cart as you walk into the store."  (Cart Police?)  
The (much bigger) guy with the cart said, "Why don't you mind your own business?"
The "Cart Police" guy repeated his request.
The other guy walked up in his face, looked down at him & said, "I suggest you shop somewhere else before you get hurt."


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> oh, I grasp the concept.  Go ahead and tit for tat me.
> 
> My life is very sad right now, I am very sad right now, so playing in the sand box, with a challenging friend (yes, friend), helps keep me grounded and off a mental ward at the hospital.  For once, your trolling is actually appreciated.  Enjoy the attention while it lasts.


We all have sadness in our lives.  There are better ways of dealing with it than taking your sadness out on others.


----------



## GAlady

Aneeda72 said:


> Well, lots of luck.  Court costs money, and in most states assisted living takes all your money but leaves you about 25 dollars a month.  With most everyone around you vaccinated, you may think you have nothing to worry about, but you are in an at risk population, and Delta is a game changer.
> 
> I thought my vaccinated son Joey was safe as everyone in his environment was vaccinated.  I was so wrong.  . Many of the clients in the sheltered workshop have Covid and the workshop closed for two weeks, because so many got Delta.  But you have the right to not be vaccinated.


Vaccinated and unvaccinated can carry the Covid virus with or without symptoms.   They test us every week and take our temperature & oxygen levels twice a day.  I have never tested positive.  Many of the vaccinated have tested positive, had symptoms and died.  I am very careful.  Wear a mask at all times, wash my hands 50 times a day and have not eaten in a restaurant in a year and one half.  I have the money to hire an Attorney.


----------



## chic

GAlady said:


> I have not taken the Covid Vaccines and have no intention to.  I live in an Assisted Living and only one other Resident has refused to be vaccinated.  Here in our facility, the only ones that have gotten Covid were the vaccinated.  Two have died.  one was on a ventilator.  Think I will take my chances.
> 
> Some of the staff have not been vaccinated and it is mandated by December 15th.  Biden’s stupid mandate for businesses.  I told them they ought to walk off.  Some of the real “old timers” here say they don’t want to be around the unvaccinated.  They don’t know that I am not.. In case they start mandated for all Residents, I have already talked to an Attorney.  Would have to see them in court.


You're lucky to have had a choice! My mom's best friend is in assisted living and all the residents were forced to be vaxxed. No choice.


----------



## win231

GAlady said:


> Vaccinated and unvaccinated can carry the Covid virus with or without symptoms.   They test us every week and take our temperature & oxygen levels twice a day.  I have never tested positive.  Many of the vaccinated have tested positive, had symptoms and died.  I am very careful.  Wear a mask at all times, wash my hands 50 times a day and have not eaten in a restaurant in a year and one half.  I have the money to hire an Attorney.


^^^^ Good information.  And lessons to be learned.......for those with open minds.


----------



## Alligatorob

win231 said:


> You do it because you think it impresses people & makes you appear intelligent.


Works for me.  @Shero does impress and appears intelligent.

Wish I spoke French, or most any foreign language.  I am from Louisiana with many Cajuns in the family, so I have picked up half a dozen or so Cajun expressions, that's it for my French.  Laissez les bon temps rouler!


----------



## Shero

Alligatorob said:


> Works for me.  @Shero does impress and appears intelligent.
> 
> Wish I spoke French, or most any foreign language.  I am from Louisiana with many Cajuns in the family, so I have picked up half a dozen or so Cajun expressions, that's it for my French.  Laissez les bon temps rouler!



 Merci mon ami


----------



## Aneeda72

Alligatorob said:


> Works for me.  @Shero does impress and appears intelligent.
> 
> Wish I spoke French, or most any foreign language.  I am from Louisiana with many Cajuns in the family, so I have picked up half a dozen or so Cajun expressions, that's it for my French.  Laissez les bon temps rouler!


I wish I spoke Spanish


----------



## charry

ManjaroKDE said:


> Use my five simple rules for the pandemic:
> 
> 1.  Get all doses of the vaccine
> 2.  Wash hands frequently
> 3.  Avoid crowds
> 4.  Wear your masks when out and about
> 5.  Treat everybody as the enemy


Exactly .....the same here without getting all the vaccines....if you stick by those numbers your be fine,
The sad thing is , that us anti vaccers, are getting the blame for spreading still 
But we take all precautions , it’s the vaccinated that think they are safe , and start, leaving of masks  and not bothering with  any of the rules and precautions !!


----------



## Aneeda72

charry said:


> Exactly .....the same here without getting all the vaccines....if you stick by those numbers your be fine,
> The sad thing is , that us anti vaccers, are getting the blame for spreading still
> But we take all precautions , it’s the vaccinated that think they are safe , and start, leaving of masks  and not bothering with  any of the rules and precautions !!


Mistaken on all counts.  Neither my son, or his workmates, left their masks off.  They followed the rules and precautions as they are “forced” to do so.  The disabled are very monitored .  We know exactly who he got delta Covid from even before the tracing was done. Another disabled person with DS.  Both these people were vaccinated.

As for treating people like the enemy, , ugh, just ugh.  The virus is the enemy, people are not.  I am just going to keep saying it, Delta Covid-19 has changed everything.  No one is “safe” but some are safer than others.

Because of exposure to my son over a period of days (and being on the Covid overflow ward; I will get tested on Tuesday as you have to wait seven days after your last exposure.  I have no symptoms.  My older son tested negative.  I am sure I will also.  

I ordered the test kit today and will pick it up on Tuesday.


----------



## Aneeda72

Sunny said:


> Chic, go back to French class.  Where did I call _anti-vaxxers_ idiots?  "Il est" is singular. One.  And he is not an idiot because he is an anti-vaxxer. So take a deep breath and stop putting words into people's mouths.
> 
> If someone is consistently behaving like a troublemaking 10-year-old, constantly provoking fights on a forum for his own amusement, making fun of someone because (oh, merde!) she uses a few French words now and then, IMO he deserves to be called an idiot. One person. Got it?
> 
> I do believe that many of the anti-vaxxers have been misled down a path that can easily lead them (and others around them) to disease and death.  That does not make them idiots, but they are following dangerous leadership.
> 
> And Ladybj, you should go back to English class!   " Whomever it is, they are not my cult leader? "
> 
> It's whoever, not whomever. Incorrectly using what you think is fancy English does not convince anybody of anything.


My spelling is awful, my grammar is awful, my punctuation is awful, how did I ended up with a 2 year college degree majoring in English and early childhood education?  My math was even worst.


----------



## ManjaroKDE

> As for treating people like the enemy, , ugh, just ugh.  The virus is the enemy, people are not.  I am just going to keep saying it, Delta Covid-19 has changed everything.  No one is “safe” but some are safer than others.


@Aneeda72 sorry you took exception to no 5.

The virus is colorless, invisible and darn dangerous.  You don't know who has been vaccinated or not, the card is just a piece of paper that you can obtain a fake copy from many sources.  The virus can be deadly so I'm protecting myself against the possibility that anyone can be my 'enemy'.  We are in a war for survival, make no mistake about that.  I'm sorry your son has had a rough time.  But my approach's watchword is 'caution' and trust no one.
OK lesson learned.


----------



## Aneeda72

ManjaroKDE said:


> @Aneeda72 sorry you took exception to no 5.
> 
> The virus is colorless, invisible and darn dangerous.  You don't know who has been vaccinated or not, the card is just a piece of paper that you can obtain a fake copy from many sources.  The virus can be deadly so I'm protecting myself against the possibility that anyone can be my 'enemy'.  We are in a war for survival, make no mistake about that.  I'm sorry your son has had a rough time.  But my approach's watchword is 'caution' and trust no one.
> 
> *I am done with this thread!*


You can treat people however you want and I did not even address vaccination cards, don’t know where that came from, but it is the virus that remains the enemy.  I never said not to be cautious.  You must do whatever you must do for yourself.

I do what I must for myself and my family.

I don’t understand why people announce, dramatically, that they are done with a thread.  You can just not respond anymore.  No need to shout.


----------



## win231

ManjaroKDE said:


> @Aneeda72 sorry you took exception to no 5.
> 
> The virus is colorless, invisible and darn dangerous.  You don't know who has been vaccinated or not, the card is just a piece of paper that you can obtain a fake copy from many sources.  The virus can be deadly so I'm protecting myself against the possibility that anyone can be my 'enemy'.  We are in a war for survival, make no mistake about that.  I'm sorry your son has had a rough time.  But my approach's watchword is 'caution' and trust no one.
> 
> *I am done with this thread!*


We're happy to hear you're done with this thread; even though we know you're not.
Much like your threat to "Put someone on ignore."


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> We're happy to hear you're done with this thread; even though we know you're not.
> Much like your threat to "Put someone on ignore."


“We’re” as in you and, hmm, wait.  Do you have multiple personalities or a mouse in your pocket?  Or is there someone standing next to you reading over your shoulder or dictating to you or are you counting Alex as a person?

Or perhaps you’ve used the Royal “we”-as I am a King in my own mind.  Do let us know which it is.  Everyone on this thread is dying to know


----------



## win231

Aneeda72 said:


> You can treat people however you want and I did not even address vaccination cards, don’t know where that came from, but it is the virus that remains the enemy.  I never said not to be cautious.  You must do whatever you must do for yourself.
> 
> I do what I must for myself and my family.
> 
> I don’t understand why people announce, dramatically, that they are done with a thread.  You can just not respond anymore.  No need to shout.


Same reason a 5 year old says,_ "I'm running away from home & I'm never coming back."_
A craving for attention & sympathy.


----------



## SeaBreeze

chic said:


> You're lucky to have had a choice! My mom's best friend is in assisted living and all the residents were forced to be vaxxed. No choice.


Didn't she have a choice to move to an assisted living facility that didn't care, instead of staying in one who "forced" a vaccine against a deadly virus on her?  I imagine there was a choice to stay there and get the shot like everyone else in her facility, or go somewhere else.


----------



## Michael Z

From what I gather, I have heard that Covid19 is very similar in nature to the common cold, except for the great severity of symptoms of course. That said, when you get a cold, you are then usually immune for 6-12 mo, then you can catch it again. If you could catch a milder form of the cold with less severe symptoms (think vaccine), you then would be immune again, perhaps for another 6-12 mo, but then you would be at risk again. So without the vaccine you are at risk for the most severe symptoms, but you will need to re-vaccinate after a time. I am no health expert by any means, so correct me if I am wrong. That said, you better have all your ducks in a row and hope for the best if you do not get the vaccine due to concerns with the vaccines. And there are ways to be proactive without the vaccine like ample rest, Vitamin D, C, and zinc. Also, black cumin (black seed) may help.  I know many younger and up to age 70 that did not recieve the vaccine and are fine, but know two friends of friends, fairly young, that did not get the vaccine and died from covid, one who was quite obese, with the other a fairly healthy man in his 30's. I personally know of no older folks that were vaccinated that had to be hospitalized.  Personally, I got one shot of the Moderna so far with no side effects at all.

I am no health expert by any means, so correct me if I am wrong or offer your differing opinion. I won't be offended.


----------



## Aneeda72

Michael Z said:


> From what I gather, I have heard that Covid19 is very similar in nature to the common cold, except for the great severity of symptoms of course. That said, when you get a cold, you are then usually immune for 6-12 mo, then you can catch it again. If you could catch a milder form of the cold with less severe symptoms (think vaccine), you then would be immune again, perhaps for another 6-12 mo, but then you would be at risk again. So without the vaccine you are at risk for the most severe symptoms, but you will need to re-vaccinate after a time. I am no health expert by any means, so correct me if I am wrong. That said, you better have all your ducks in a row and hope for the best if you do not get the vaccine due to concerns with the vaccines. And there are ways to be proactive without the vaccine like ample rest, Vitamin D, C, and zinc. Also, black cumin (black seed) may help.  I know many younger and up to age 70 that did not recieve the vaccine and are fine, but know two friends of friends, fairly young, that did not get the vaccine and died from covid, one who was quite obese, with the other a fairly healthy man in his 30's. I personally know of no older folks that were vaccinated that had to be hospitalized.  Personally, I got one shot of the Moderna so far with no side effects at all.
> 
> I am no health expert by any means, so correct me if I am wrong or offer your differing opinion. I won't be offended.


I never heard of millions of people dying from a common cold, so no, in my opinion, it’s not like a cold.  It’s like a deadly virus that I‘d rather not have.


----------



## hollydolly

Michael Z said:


> From what I gather, I have heard that Covid19 is very similar in nature to the common cold, except for the great severity of symptoms of course. That said, when you get a cold, you are then usually immune for 6-12 mo, then you can catch it again. If you could catch a milder form of the cold with less severe symptoms (think vaccine), you then would be immune again, perhaps for another 6-12 mo, but then you would be at risk again. So without the vaccine you are at risk for the most severe symptoms, but you will need to re-vaccinate after a time. I am no health expert by any means, so correct me if I am wrong. That said, you better have all your ducks in a row and hope for the best if you do not get the vaccine due to concerns with the vaccines. And there are ways to be proactive without the vaccine like ample rest, Vitamin D, C, and zinc. Also, black cumin (black seed) may help.  I know many younger and up to age 70 that did not recieve the vaccine and are fine, but know two friends of friends, fairly young, that did not get the vaccine and died from covid, one who was quite obese, with the other a fairly healthy man in his 30's. I personally know of no older folks that were vaccinated that had to be hospitalized.  Personally, I got one shot of the Moderna so far with no side effects at all.
> 
> I am no health expert by any means, so correct me if I am wrong or offer your differing opinion. I won't be offended.


I can assure you that when my O/H and I both contracted C-19 in March of 2020 within a few days of each other, it was nothing whatsoever like a cold.. It was like having the flu but double... in fact, my husband couldn't move from his bed for 16 days... this is a man who never misses a days work, and mostly he could barely breath, he sweated buckets, he couldn't eat..he was hallucinating at times..we were both absolutely freezing despite having as many duvets and blankets on the beds that we could possibly have, it was the weirdest thing, I've never had a situation like that happen where the body just cannot be warmed up... 

...I was luckier than him, I recovered  within a week...and aside from the 16 days in bed , he was still poorly for about a week after, and to this day, almost 18 months on he still hasn't regained his sense of smell or taste... and... that was a MILD version of C-19... So, NO, suffering from Covid-19 is _Nothing_ like having a cold... 

ETA on re-reading your post can see now where you're comparing the cold to the Virus in the sense of the vaccine


----------



## bowmore

I think Darwinism will take care of a lot of the anti-vaxxers. I resent these non vaccinated people take up space in our medical facilities.


----------



## Aneeda72

bowmore said:


> I think Darwinism will take care of a lot of the anti-vaxxers. I resent these non vaccinated people take up space in our medical facilities.


I agree, never thought I would, but I do.


----------



## charry

chic said:


> You're lucky to have had a choice! My mom's best friend is in assisted living and all the residents were forced to be vaxxed. No choice.


We all have a choice chic.....remember that xx


----------



## Sunny

SeaBreeze said:


> Didn't she have a choice to move to an assisted living facility that didn't care, instead of staying in one who "forced" a vaccine against a deadly virus on her?  I imagine there was a choice to stay there and get the shot like everyone else in her facility, or go somewhere else.



Exactly, Seabreeze.  When this pandemic started, remember where most of the deaths occurred. It was in the nursing homes and assisted living facilities, not because they didn't care (at that early stage), but because they didn't know.

Any facility that housed a lot of elderly and/or sick people without protection against this virus should be shut down by the health department immediately.  

So, chic, you really feel that people are "lucky" to get a chance to stay in a place that is likely to kill them, rather than getting one or two little shots in the arm?


----------



## SeaBreeze

Sunny said:


> Exactly, Seabreeze. When this pandemic started, remember where most of the deaths occurred. It was in the nursing homes and assisted living facilities, not because they didn't care (at that early stage), but because they didn't know.
> 
> Any facility that housed a lot of elderly and/or sick people without protection against this virus should be shut down by the health department immediately.


Very true Sunny.  If my parents were in a facility like that and they did not make sure all workers, caregivers and residents there were fully vaccinated during a deadly worldwide pandemic, you can bet I'd have them out of there as soon as possible.

  Why would anyone want their elderly relatives being cared for in a place like that if there were unvaccinated people spreading around a deadly virus?  I would have enough love for my parents to make sure they were vaccinated and had some protection as not to die from a COVID-19 infection that could have been prevented.

Anyone who would keep a loved on in an assisted living facility, nursing home, etc. that did not follow the safety guidelines during a pandemic, needs to wake up to reality.


----------



## chic

Sunny said:


> Exactly, Seabreeze.  When this pandemic started, remember where most of the deaths occurred. It was in the nursing homes and assisted living facilities, not because they didn't care (at that early stage), but because they didn't know.
> 
> Any facility that housed a lot of elderly and/or sick people without protection against this virus should be shut down by the health department immediately.
> 
> So, chic, you really feel that people are "lucky" to get a chance to stay in a place that is likely to kill them, rather than getting one or two little shots in the arm?


Her kids should take her out of there. They don't but they could. It would solve the issue for all of them.


----------



## chic

hollydolly said:


> I can assure you that when my O/H and I both contracted C-19 in March of 2020 within a few days of each other, it was nothing whatsoever like a cold.. It was like having the flu but double... in fact, my husband couldn't move from his bed for 16 days... this is a man who never misses a days work, and mostly he could barely breath, he sweated buckets, he couldn't eat..he was hallucinating at times..we were both absolutely freezing despite having as many duvets and blankets on the beds that we could possibly have, it was the weirdest thing, I've never had a situation like that happen where the body just cannot be warmed up...
> 
> ...I was luckier than him, I recovered  within a week...and aside from the 16 days in bed , he was still poorly for about a week after, and to this day, almost 18 months on he still hasn't regained his sense of smell or taste... and... that was a MILD version of C-19... So, NO, suffering from Covid-19 is _Nothing_ like having a cold...
> 
> ETA on re-reading your post can see now where you're comparing the cold to the Virus in the sense of the vaccine


Have his doctors dealt with his lack of taste and smell? It's been a very long time. They must have drawn some conclusion?


----------



## hollydolly

chic said:


> Have his doctors dealt with his lack of taste and smell? It's been a very long time. They must have drawn some conclusion?


NO because he won't go to the Doctor....


----------



## chic

hollydolly said:


> NO because he won't go to the Doctor....


Men!


----------



## Ruthanne

I won't be posting in this thread anymore or coming back to it in order to refrain from upsetting Mike.  There was a very nasty post to me and I answered it at first and then I deleted it to not cause any more unpleasantness in this thread.  Peace to all.


----------



## hollydolly

Ruthanne said:


> I won't be posting in this thread anymore or coming back to it in order to refrain from upsetting Mike.  There was a very nasty post to me and I answered it at first and then I deleted it to not cause any more unpleasantness in this thread.  Peace to all.


I saw your reply...


----------



## chic

SeaBreeze said:


> Didn't she have a choice to move to an assisted living facility that didn't care, instead of staying in one who "forced" a vaccine against a deadly virus on her?  I imagine there was a choice to stay there and get the shot like everyone else in her facility, or go somewhere else.


Her kids should take her out. I agree.


----------



## Ruthanne

hollydolly said:


> I saw your reply...


And so?  Am I allowed to be human?


----------



## chic

SeaBreeze said:


> Didn't she have a choice to move to an assisted living facility that didn't care, instead of staying in one who "forced" a vaccine against a deadly virus on her?  I imagine there was a choice to stay there and get the shot like everyone else in her facility, or go somewhere else.


Her kids should take her out I agree.


----------



## hollydolly

Ruthanne said:


> And so?  Am I allowed to be human?


Oh woah!!... don't start attacking me as well Ruthanne, I'm not the one  .......I was taking your side, now I see why Ellen was so annoyed


----------



## Ruthanne

hollydolly said:


> Oh woah!!... don't start attacking me as well Ruthanne, I'm not the one  .......I was taking your side, now I see why Ellen was so annoyed


I'm not attacking you.  I only saw your frown smiley and thought you were disappointed in me so I asked was I allowed to be human?  Oh and now you are taking Ellen's side.  Real nice to turn on me, too, just like Ellen.  

HD, I have seen you get ticked off numerous times and have never said a thing!  And I saw how you were toward me some time back too and never said a thing to you.   End of my end of this conversation and I will not be back to this thread this time for sure.


----------



## hollydolly

Ruthanne said:


> I'm not attacking you.  I only saw your frown smiley and thought you were disappointed in me so I asked was I allowed to be human?  Oh and now you are taking Ellen's side.  Real nice to turn on me, too, just like Ellen.
> 
> HD, I have seen you get ticked off numerous times and have never said a thing!  And I saw how you were toward me some time back too and never said a thing to you.   End of my end of this conversation and I will not be back to this thread this time for sure.


now you're talking nonsense.... my emoticon was not of a frown but one of sadness for you, despite your rant at @Ellen Marie  ......and you snapped at me for no reason, now I see why other people have problems with you..


----------



## Warrigal

Aneeda72 said:


> I never heard of millions of people dying from a common cold, so no, in my opinion, it’s not like a cold.  It’s like a deadly virus that I‘d rather not have.


I dunno about that, Aneeda. According to H G Wells the invading Martians were wiped out by the common cold because they were unvaccinated and did not have herd immunity.

(Please excuse my lame attempt at humour but sometimes it is good to crack a smile when things are rather serious.)


----------



## SeaBreeze

chic said:


> Her kids should take her out of there. They don't but they could. It would solve the issue for all of them.


I hope they do get her out of there and get her out fast.  That way she or her family won't help to infect and possibly kill any of the vulnerable residents there or the staff.  If I was in that facility, I'd say good riddance to the whole family.

It's those who are unvaccinated that are overflowing our hospitals and dying from COVID-19, why would anyone want their loved ones to be stuck in a facility with such people?  I wouldn't!

  This is a deadly worldwide pandemic, if I'm not mistaken, the numbers dead in the United States are over 760,000 people.  Those who keep their heads in the sand do not make this virus go away or get it under control, vaccines, masks and common sense do.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Ruthanne said:


> I won't be posting in this thread anymore or coming back to it in order to refrain from upsetting Mike.  There was a very nasty post to me and I answered it at first and then I deleted it to not cause any more unpleasantness in this thread.  Peace to all.


I don't blame you for reacting to that rude post.  I wish you wouldn't leave the thread, those like you who speak truthfully and realistically about this killer virus are needed to balance out the disinformation and conspiracies.  I know, it falls on deaf ears with those people, but there may be some here reading who are confused and undecided about taking the life saving vaccines.  Those need to learn the facts and the truth to make a sensible decision.  Peace Ruthanne.   

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/disclaimer-and-reminder.62672/


----------



## chic

SeaBreeze said:


> I hope they do get her out of there and get her out fast.  That way she or her family won't help to infect and possibly kill any of the vulnerable residents there or the staff.  If I was in that facility, I'd say good riddance to the whole family.
> 
> It's those who are unvaccinated that are overflowing our hospitals and dying from COVID-19, why would anyone want their loved ones to be stuck in a facility with such people?  I wouldn't!
> 
> This is a deadly worldwide pandemic, if I'm not mistaken, the numbers dead in the United States are over 760,000 people.  Those who keep their heads in the sand do not make this virus go away or get it under control, vaccines, masks and common sense do.


She's vaccinated! I told you this.


----------



## SeaBreeze

chic said:


> She's vaccinated! I told you this.


Well you said that all the residents there were being force to get vaccinated and they had no choice, and she was a resident there.  Then you said her kids should take her out of there.

If she's already vaccinated, what is the problem then?  I guess she had a choice and was vaccinated, so why should her kids take her out of there? 

 I don't understand, if this isn't affecting her personally, are you just complaining that the facility is protecting the health of all the others there, so COVID-19 doesn't spread in their building and put their residents on ventilators or in the grave?


----------



## Shero

Please rethink your decision to leave the thread Ruthanne, your input is valuable. We need all hands on deck to shine a torch on the misinformed anti vaxxers!!!


----------



## win231

Ruthanne said:


> I'm not attacking you.  I only saw your frown smiley and thought you were disappointed in me so I asked was I allowed to be human?  Oh and now you are taking Ellen's side.  Real nice to turn on me, too, just like Ellen.
> 
> HD, I have seen you get ticked off numerous times and have never said a thing!  And I saw how you were toward me some time back too and never said a thing to you.   End of my end of this conversation and I will not be back to this thread this time for sure.


^^^^ From someone who calls people who don't agree with her, "Idiots."


----------



## Ladybj

Mike said:


> This thread has turned disrespectful and poisonous, if you
> dislike each other so much, go and start a fight in a thread
> designed for that purpose, instead spoiling one started by me.
> 
> Mike.


Mike... when you start a thread, you liable to get all types of comments.  Great thread!  When I start a thread, I am well aware that I will get all types of comments - whether I agree or disagree - my stance is everyone has a right to their opinion.  However, I respect how you feel and apologize if you feel I disrespected your thread in any way.


----------



## chic

SeaBreeze said:


> Well you said that all the residents there were being force to get vaccinated and they had no choice, and she was a resident there.  Then you said her kids should take her out of there.
> 
> If she's already vaccinated, what is the problem then?  I guess she had a choice and was vaccinated, so why should her kids take her out of there?
> 
> I don't understand, if this isn't affecting her personally, are you just complaining that the facility is protecting the health of all the others there, so COVID-19 doesn't spread in their building and put their residents on ventilators or in the grave?


Her kids should take her out because she is unhappy there and suffering mentally and physically because of it but she is fully vaccinated.


----------



## Mike

Ruthanne said:


> I won't be posting in this thread anymore or coming back to it in order to refrain from upsetting Mike.  There was a very nasty post to me and I answered it at first and then I deleted it to not cause any more unpleasantness in this thread.  Peace to all.


Thank you for being considerate Ruth, but I won't be upset
if you do reply, I am not looking back to the badness.

This sort of thing happens quite often here, where a few get
annoyed with each other and start insulting one another, with
no reference to the opening subject.

Arguments between supposedly friendly people smell a bit
like politics and they are forbidden.

So all involved should take a deep breath and stop being bad.

Mike.


----------



## SeaBreeze

chic said:


> Her kids should take her out because she is unhappy there and suffering mentally and physically because of it but she is fully vaccinated.


Okay, she's fully vaccinated and taking her out of there has nothing to do with forced vaccinations.


----------



## hollydolly

Shero said:


> Please rethink your decision to leave the thread Ruthanne, your input is valuable. We need all hands on deck to shine a torch on the misinformed anti vaxxers!!!


Not when it involves a personal attack on other members..this isn't the place for that...


----------



## Shero

hollydolly said:


> Not when it involves a personal attack on other members..this isn't the place for that...


Please do not involve me in this non sense hollydolly your comment was not necessary, it only adds fuel to a fire. If you are referring to post # 112, then Ruthanne has every right to respond. May I add, my post was directed to Ruthanne, not to you! La fin!


----------



## win231

Shero said:


> Please do not involve me in this non sense hollydolly your comment was not necessary, it only adds fuel to a fire. If you are referring to post # 112, then Ruthanne has every right to respond. May I add, my post was directed to Ruthanne, not to you! La fin!


Nonsense is one word.


----------



## hollydolly

Shero said:


> Please do not involve me in this non sense hollydolly your comment was not necessary, it only adds fuel to a fire. If you are referring to post # 112, then Ruthanne has every right to respond. May I add, my post was directed to Ruthanne, not to you! La fin!


Actually I _will_ involve you because my comment was directed at your comment and indeed necessary .. you didn't see the personal attack Ruthanne made on another member which was totally uncalled for then conveniently removed before she thought anyone saw it ..and please don't tell me who I can respond to on this forum, if you make a post here it's public and therefore open to response, if you don't want a response then please don't post here or instead put me and everyone you don't want a response from, on ignore..and we'll do the same with you with pleasure. You've been here 5 minutes and you think you can tell people who and what to respond to... think again..,!!


----------



## Shero

hollydolly said:


> Actually I _will_ involve you because my comment was directed at your comment and indeed necessary .. you didn't see the personal attack Ruthanne made on another member which was totally uncalled for then conveniently removed before she thought anyone saw it ..and please don't tell me who I can respond to on this forum, if you make a post here it's public and therefore open to response, if you don't want a response then please don't post here or instead put me and everyone you don't want a response from, on ignore..and we'll do the same with you with pleasure. You've been here 5 minutes and you think you can tell people who and what to respond to... think again..,!!



Well, I do not have anyone on ignore, so congratulations !! *you* are the first and probably will be the only one. 
Fighting is *not* something I care for and you disappoint me greatly.
Bonne chance !!


----------



## Shero

Ruthanne, I miss your comments on this thread, I sincerely do


----------



## hollydolly

Shero said:


> Well, I do not have anyone on ignore, so congratulations !! *you* are the first and probably will be the only one.
> Fighting is *not* something I care for and you disappoint me greatly.
> Bonne chance !!


Oh I'm so pleased...I always like to be first at everything... fill your boots....


----------



## Aneeda72

Shero said:


> Well, I do not have anyone on ignore, so congratulations !! *you* are the first and probably will be the only one.
> Fighting is *not* something I care for and you disappoint me greatly.
> Bonne chance !!


I see nothing wrong with having people on ignore.  I have 2 people on ignore.


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## hollydolly

Aneeda72 said:


> I see nothing wrong with having people on ignore.  I have 2 people on ignore.


I agree.. I  have several people on permanent  ignore.. .. In fact.. I will often put someone on  short term  ignore who is being an irritant , just as I ignore someone  someone who is sounding off in the pub whose trying to stir up trouble, or whose being argumentative for no reason.. that's what the ignore button is for...


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## win231

hollydolly said:


> Actually I _will_ involve you because my comment was directed at your comment and indeed necessary .. you didn't see the personal attack Ruthanne made on another member which was totally uncalled for then conveniently removed before she thought anyone saw it ..and please don't tell me who I can respond to on this forum, if you make a post here it's public and therefore open to response, if you don't want a response then please don't post here or instead put me and everyone you don't want a response from, on ignore..and we'll do the same with you with pleasure. You've been here 5 minutes and you think you can tell people who and what to respond to... think again..,!!


Well Said!
Ya know, some vax pushers are _"All-Around Controllers"  _who crave power.  Covid is the answer to their prayers.


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## win231

Shero said:


> Ruthanne, I miss your comments on this thread, I sincerely do


"Birds of a Feather.......Flock Together."


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## Shero

*'Pandemic of the unvaccinated'*


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## Sunny

Good discussion, Shero, though not too much new in it.  One interesting fact is that although our government is not (yet) mandating that a vaccination is required before you are allowed to enter various public spaces, many private organizations and businesses here are requiring that. Example:  Our theatre group is putting on a show as usual every month. Everyone who wants to enter (audience, as well as performers) must show a vaccination card.  We are a senior community, therefore extremely vulnerable to serious illness and death from this disease. Yet, we have had a very low rate of infection, due to quarantine, masking, and vaccinations.  Some of the (very few) holdouts who stubbornly refuse to get vaccinated have moved to a more "red" part of the state.  But the rest of us are staying healthy and enjoying a reasonably normal life.


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## hollydolly

win231 said:


> "Birds of a Feather.......Flock Together."


Unfortunately that is indeed the truth.... we see it time and time again here...


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## Shero

Sunny said:


> Good discussion, Shero, though not too much new in it.  One interesting fact is that although our government is not (yet) mandating that a vaccination is required before you are allowed to enter various public spaces, many private organizations and businesses here are requiring that. Example:  Our theatre group is putting on a show as usual every month. Everyone who wants to enter (audience, as well as performers) must show a vaccination card.  We are a senior community, therefore extremely vulnerable to serious illness and death from this disease. Yet, we have had a very low rate of infection, due to quarantine, masking, and vaccinations.  Some of the (very few) holdouts who stubbornly refuse to get vaccinated have moved to a more "red" part of the state.  But the rest of us are staying healthy and enjoying a reasonably normal life.


.
Yes Sunny, I agree, a great discussion and I put the video up because sometimes some things need to be said more than once as a reminder.

. Thanks for your great comments as usual


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## Verisure

Mike said:


> I was thinking about the various vaccines and the arguments
> for and against.
> 
> If they added a fluorescent substance to them and it made the
> skin glow for a short while, that would really show who had, had
> the jabs .....


The Nazis made use of ink.


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## Verisure

I got both injections in June but I am (as we speak) waiting for the results of today's swab test as I have developed the COVID symptoms.


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## chic

hollydolly said:


> Not when it involves a personal attack on other members..this isn't the place for that...


I agree. Take a breath. Leave for a awhile if you must. But no more attacking and hatred. We are all worn out with contemptuous treatment.


----------



## dseag2

Wow, this thread surely denigrated quickly.  

To answer someone's original question, the reason we who are vaccinated would like everyone to be vaccinated is because the virus mutates (it already mutated to Delta) which is the reason for the booster.  The unvaccinated just allow it to continue to mutate by spreading it.  Even the flu virus mutates each year, which is why we are encouraged to have the flu vaccine every year.  But I'm sure Harvard is just paid off by Big Pharma to say this.   

https://www.health.harvard.edu/dise... changes (mutates,likely to cause an outbreak.


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## win231

dseag2 said:


> Wow, this thread surely denigrated quickly.
> 
> To answer someone's original question, the reason we who are vaccinated would like everyone to be vaccinated is because the virus mutates (it already mutated to Delta) which is the reason for the booster.  The unvaccinated just allow it to continue to mutate by spreading it.  Even the flu virus mutates each year, which is why we are encouraged to have the flu vaccine every year.  But I'm sure Harvard is just paid off by Big Pharma to say this.
> 
> https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/10-flu-myths#:~:text=The influenza virus changes (mutates,likely to cause an outbreak.


Uh, think about what you're posting.
If the virus mutates, the vaccinated are just as likely to spread the mutated virus as the unvaccinated.  And it's already been established that the vaccine does not prevent transmission to others - even before it mutates.
What you are doing is creating a way to blame others for what doctors can't fix.


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## dseag2

win231 said:


> Uh, think about what you're posting.
> If the virus mutates, the vaccinated are just as likely to spread the mutated virus as the unvaccinated.  And it's already been established that the vaccine does not prevent transmission to others - even before it mutates.
> What you are doing is creating a way to blame others for what doctors can't fix.


Oh, I forgot.  You are always the expert and always have the last say in everything.  I've already posted about the topic of how the unvaccinated are more likely than the vaccinated to spread the virus.  Methinks you need a life.  I'm done with you.

"Never argue with a fool.  They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!!"


----------



## SeaBreeze

dseag2 said:


> Oh, I forgot.  You are always the expert and always have the last say in everything. * I've already posted about the topic of how the unvaccinated are more likely than the vaccinated to spread the virus. * Methinks you need a life.  I'm done with you.
> 
> "Never argue with a fool.  They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!!"


I've posted about that too, more than once with link to the facts.  Some people don't want to hear the facts about this deadly virus, and that is the problem.


----------



## dseag2

SeaBreeze said:


> I've posted about that too, more than once with link to the facts.  Some people don't want to hear the facts about this deadly virus, and that is the problem.


Exactly.  And I will no longer waste my time on conspiracy theorists.  Onto another thread!


----------



## win231

dseag2 said:


> Exactly.  And I will no longer waste my time on conspiracy theorists.  Onto another thread!


Oh, NO......I just couldn't take another "Ignore" threat.


----------



## SeaBreeze

dseag2 said:


> Exactly.  And I will no longer waste my time on conspiracy theorists.  Onto another thread!


I don't blame you, the constant denial and repetitive falsehoods are hard to hear over and over.  I've posted hard facts and some will post a video of a quack doctor who spreads covid lies and was banned from social media.  Amazing the garbage some people are weak enough to swallow.


----------



## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> I don't blame you, the constant denial and repetitive falsehoods are hard to hear over and over.  I've posted hard facts and some will post a video of a quack doctor who spreads covid lies and was banned from social media.  Amazing the garbage some people are weak enough to swallow.


I'm still trying to swallow the refrigerated meat trucks packed with dead Covid victims in hospital parking lots.


----------



## Becky1951

dseag2 said:


> Wow, this thread surely denigrated quickly.
> 
> To answer someone's original question, the reason we who are vaccinated would like everyone to be vaccinated is because the virus mutates (it already mutated to Delta) which is the reason for the booster.  The unvaccinated just allow it to continue to mutate by spreading it.  Even the flu virus mutates each year, which is why we are encouraged to have the flu vaccine every year.  But I'm sure Harvard is just paid off by Big Pharma to say this.
> 
> https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/10-flu-myths#:~:text=The influenza virus changes (mutates,likely to cause an outbreak.


"The unvaccinated just allow it to continue to mutate by spreading it."

Just as the vaccinated do also.


----------



## Becky1951

SeaBreeze said:


> I don't blame you, the constant denial and repetitive falsehoods are hard to hear over and over.  I've posted hard facts and some will post a video of a quack doctor who spreads covid lies and was banned from social media.  Amazing the garbage some people are weak enough to swallow.


"the constant denial and repetitive falsehoods are hard to hear over and over"

Some opinions are that its all falsehoods, other opinions are that its not *all *falsehoods. They are each persons opinions. The constant denial and repetitive falsehoods are hard to hear over and over for those having a different opinion then yours and especially when accompanied by name calling by some.  It works both ways.


----------



## dseag2

SeaBreeze said:


> I don't blame you, the constant denial and repetitive falsehoods are hard to hear over and over.  I've posted hard facts and some will post a video of a quack doctor who spreads covid lies and was banned from social media.  Amazing the garbage some people are weak enough to swallow.





Becky1951 said:


> "The unvaccinated just allow it to continue to mutate by spreading it."
> 
> Just as the vaccinated do also.


Maybe you and Win should hook up.  Match made in heaven.


----------



## Becky1951

dseag2 said:


> Maybe you and Win should hook up.  Match made in heaven.



"The unvaccinated just allow it to continue to mutate by spreading it."

*"Just as the vaccinated do also."*

Its a fact that vaccinated people can also spread Covid. I only commented on a fact where as I guess you not being able to dispute that fact instead when for a snarky remark.  That's the problem with trying to discuss anything, someone comes along and makes snarky comments or resorts to name calling.  

"dseag2 said:
Wow, this thread surely denigrated quickly."

Seems like your contributing to that also.


----------



## dseag2

Becky1951 said:


> "The unvaccinated just allow it to continue to mutate by spreading it."
> 
> *"Just as the vaccinated do also."*
> 
> Its a fact that vaccinated people can also spread Covid. I only commented on a fact where as I guess you not being able to dispute that fact instead when for a snarky remark.  That's the problem with trying to discuss anything, someone comes along and makes snarky comments or resorts to name calling.
> 
> "dseag2 said:
> Wow, this thread surely denigrated quickly."
> 
> Seems like your contributing to that also.


By "your" do you mean "you're"?   I equate grammar with the ability to process logical information.  Lemme know.  Maybe Win can help you with this.


----------



## Mike

I think that this topic should be locked or removed!

Previously I did say that I put it up as a bit of a joke,
I never expected so much vitriol & bad blood between
so may people.

I apologise for posting it.

I hope that you all cool down if it is not here to read and reply.

Mike.


----------



## Shero

Closing the thread will make no difference. Some people are just not mature enough to have discussions on any thread! They lack the skills required to do so.


----------



## Aneeda72

win231 said:


> Oh, NO......I just couldn't take another "Ignore" threat.


Oh, @win231 I promise to NEVER put you on ignore!


----------



## Aneeda72

Mike said:


> I think that this topic should be locked or removed!
> 
> Previously I did say that I put it up as a bit of a joke,
> I never expected so much vitriol & bad blood between
> so may people.
> 
> I apologise for posting it.
> 
> I hope that you all cool down if it is not here to read and reply.
> 
> Mike.


No, it’s been really interesting and is actually a great thread despite some “rough” stuff.  So no apology is necessary, there is always “bad blood” and vitriol on popular threads.


----------



## SeaBreeze

Becky1951 said:


> "the constant denial and repetitive falsehoods are hard to hear over and over"
> 
> Some opinions are that its all falsehoods, other opinions are that its not *all *falsehoods. They are each persons opinions. The constant denial and repetitive falsehoods are hard to hear over and over for those having a different opinion then yours and especially when accompanied by name calling by some.  It works both ways.


You're spinning yourself down the rabbit hole, your posts make no sense.  Enjoy your day.


----------



## Shero

*Wonderful  News !!!!





*


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