# 2/26/20  A day to just a few days left before panic buying.  Get to stores before.



## AnnieA

Saw pics of stores in Italy three days ago with people in check out lines that reached to the back of the store.  People were lined up outside a block or more trying to get in.  Store shelves still empty in a lot of places.   Since China makes so much of first world goods, who knows when stores are going to be able to restock.

I have never shopped on Black Friday and don't wish to be in crowds in a panic so am just about finished up.   Have also bought container garden seeds for salad stuff.

Things to get:

Hand sanitizer and Lysol/generic sprays effectively kill COVID-19 and are likely to run out
Over the counter and RX meds -- 96% of US medicines or components come from China
Vitamins -- similar percentages to meds made in China
Toilet paper and toiletries
Soaps

Food:  Much of our food preservatives are made in China so restocking even basics will be an issue.

Frozen meats, fruits and veggies
Staples such as flour, yeast, sugar, salt, cornmeal, seasonings
Oil
Peanut butter
Canned stuff
Shelf stable boxed milk, powdered milk, condensed milk etc
Oatmeal, rice, pasta all store well
Dried beans
Some crackers such as Cheezits, chips such as Pringles have long shelf lives
Pet food if you have pets


The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Tuesday warned that it expects the novel coronavirus that has sparked outbreaks around the world to begin spreading at a community level in the United States, as a top official (Nancy Messonnier, director of CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases) said that disruptions to daily life could be “severe.”

https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/25...p-official-warns-disruptions-could-be-severe/


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## hollydolly

..I'm trying not to make light of this because it's a very serious issue,, but we mustn't start panic buying in areas where the coronavirus hasn't even taken hold... it'll cause absolute anarchy and mayhem..... incidentally, if there was only peanut butter to stock up on I'd starve  I hate that stuff...

The thing is how much stuff is anyone expected to stock up on, even?..I mean for how long if you were to do it?... 2 weeks..? 2 months...a year ..?.....how can we know if in fact this virus isn't just going to fade away almost as quickly as it passes..

No harm in stocking up with essentials if you plan not leave the house for a while..perhaps you have someone at home who is weak, old, infirm , or recovering from serious illness and you want to reduce the chances of any coronarvirus entering your home..fair enough stock up and stay self quarantined.. ..but

..as long as we  we practice good hygiene , ensure hands are washed thoroughly with soap and hot water several times a day, stay away from anyone who has coughs and sneezes...  and by all means wear a mask if you have to go out where there are crowds..airports, stations, stores etc.. but really , we cannot allow this to spread to hysterical panic ..or we all lose control ..schools will close, no-one will go to work, no nurses, doctors, no police, no essential services, no water no electric .. no mechanics, no delivery drivers, no fuel pumps open, all because everyone  is  too frightened to leave the house..... panic everywhere... we  are all very rightly concerned,  but panic buying isn't the answer..


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## AnnieA

hollydolly said:


> ..I'm trying not to make light of this because it's a very serious issue,, but we mustn't start panic buying in areas where the coronavirus hasn't even taken hold... it'll cause absolute anarchy and mayhem.....



Incubation times for people returning home from Chinese New Year and international students returning after break pretty much guarantee a rise in cases.  When that happens, people will panic.  I posted this hoping some will shop before panic sets in ...because it's going to.  When a CDC official states "severe disruption" that's just what she means.



> ong if you were to do it?... 2 weeks..? 2 months...a year ..?.....how can we know if in fact this virus isn't just going to fade away almost as quickly as it passes..



As much as you can afford.    Call it bargin shopping if that makes you feel better because with so much of our stuff including food preservatives, medicines, vitamins, most anything with a chemical component connected to Chinese manufacturing ... prices WILL go up on most everything.



> No harm in stocking up with essentials if you plan not leave the house for a while..perhaps you have someone at home who is weak, old, infirm , or recovering from serious illness and you want to reduce the chances of any coronarvirus entering your home..fair enough stock up and stay self quarantined.. ..but



...but... I don't like crowds and don't want to be out when panic hits and it's going to.  Some of the stuff you list in the quote below is going to happen.  The CDC in the US has already said school closures are likely.  Schools are already closing in the UK.

It sucks to think about but it's going to happen.  People are going to panic as cases appear in their country and that's 100% going to happen.  When it happens here, I'll be at home and not out fighting crowds.   Heck, I even stocked up on hair color ...priorities and all... 



> ..as long as we  we practice good hygiene , ensure hands are washed thoroughly with soap and hot water several times a day, stay away from anyone who has coughs and sneezes...  and by all means wear a mask if you have to go out where there are crowds..airports, stations, stores etc.. but really , we cannot allow this to spread to hysterical panic ..or we all lose control ..schools will close, no-one will go to work, no nurses, doctors, no police, no essential services, no water no electric .. no mechanics, no delivery drivers, no fuel pumps open, all because everyone  is  too frightened to leave the house..... panic everywhere... we  are all very rightly concerned,  but panic buying isn't the answer..


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## hollydolly

This doctor is worth watching...


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## AnnieA

As for how much....  2/25  New York Times article suggests 30 days:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/25/health/prepare-for-coronavirus.html


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## Buckeye

I've got about 80 bottles of Merlot downstairs, so I'm good.


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## AnnieA

Just talked to a friend who bought some stuff yesterday at a Walmart in Texas.  He paid $2.20 for a 10 pound bag of sugar yesterday.  Decided to go back today and get another ...price had gone up to $3.79.


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## Catlady

AnnieA said:


> As for how much....  2/25  New York Times article suggests 30 days:
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/25/health/prepare-for-coronavirus.html


Wanted to read article but it wants me to register.  I'm going to stock up on cat food for my fur babies, that's all they can eat.  For me, I'll buy a few cans of food for myself (yuk, hate the canned stuff) and stock up on nuts and peanut butter and crackers, they have long shelf life.


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## AnnieA

Buckeye said:


> I've got about 80 bottles of Merlot downstairs, so I'm good.



That's my last stop tomorrow and I'll be finished up!


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## Ruth n Jersey

I've got two chest freezers full of food. We might not have a totally balanced meal everyday but we will have plenty of food to last quit awhile. I'm not going to risk going to the store to get more.


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## AnnieA

Ruth n Jersey said:


> I've got two chest freezers full of food. We might not have a totally balanced meal everyday but we will have plenty of food to last quit awhile. I'm not going to risk going to the store to get more.



Ruth, you can use pick-up services and not have to go inside a lot of places.  I use them for Kroger, Walmart, Sam's Club.   Whole Foods delivers to homes in certain areas.   I pay for the stuff online, drive to the pick-up parking slot and a clerk loads it in my cargo area.


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## Catlady

Ruth n Jersey said:


> I've got two chest freezers full of food. We might not have a totally balanced meal everyday but we will have plenty of food to last quit awhile. I'm not going to risk going to the store to get more.


The problem with frozen food is that during problem times like pandemics, utilities may not be available if they don't have workers .    Can foods are best, but I really hate them.  I'll just buy enough for one week.  I rather not think about it.  I did buy four bags of cat food and lots of litter today.

https://www.verywellfit.com/why-keep-foods-for-an-emergency-2507684


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## AnnieA

Catlady said:


> Can foods are best, but I really hate them.  I'll just buy enough for one week.  I rather not think about it.  I did buy four bags of cat food and lots of litter today.
> 
> https://www.verywellfit.com/why-keep-foods-for-an-emergency-2507684



There are some canned things I really like.  I'm a big fresh fruit eater but do like canned fruits in their own juice such as pineapple and mandarin oranges.  Also like mixed nuts to snack on and can do a lot with beans and rice ...esp love creole red beans and rice.   Then there's marinara sauce, alfredo sauce and pasta ...lots of variety that doesn't have to cost a lot.   And if you're a chip eater, Pringles has a super long shelf life.


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## Catlady

AnnieA said:


> There are some canned things I really like.  I'm a big fresh fruit eater but do like canned fruits in their own juice such as pineapple and mandarin oranges.  *Also like mixed nuts to snack on and can do a lot with beans and rice* ...esp love creole red beans and rice.   Then there's marinara sauce, alfredo sauce and pasta ...lots of variety that doesn't have to cost a lot.   And if you're a chip eater, Pringles has a super long shelf life.


 I USED (long time ago) to like canned pineapple and peaches, also ravioli and chili.  I like homecooked beans (pinto) and rice with soy sauce and grated parmesan, but if there is no power, you can't cook them.  I also love my homemade marinara and freeze portions, but again, if the power goes out, the freezer is only good for maybe 48 hours.  How DID people live before refs and freezers?   LOL, we're spoiled!


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## fmdog44

hollydolly said:


> ..I'm trying not to make light of this because it's a very serious issue,, but we mustn't start panic buying in areas where the coronavirus hasn't even taken hold... it'll cause absolute anarchy and mayhem..... incidentally, if there was only peanut butter to stock up on I'd starve  I hate that stuff...
> 
> The thing is how much stuff is anyone expected to stock up on, even?..I mean for how long if you were to do it?... 2 weeks..? 2 months...a year ..?.....how can we know if in fact this virus isn't just going to fade away almost as quickly as it passes..
> 
> No harm in stocking up with essentials if you plan not leave the house for a while..perhaps you have someone at home who is weak, old, infirm , or recovering from serious illness and you want to reduce the chances of any coronarvirus entering your home..fair enough stock up and stay self quarantined.. ..but
> 
> ..as long as we  we practice good hygiene , ensure hands are washed thoroughly with soap and hot water several times a day, stay away from anyone who has coughs and sneezes...  and by all means wear a mask if you have to go out where there are crowds..airports, stations, stores etc.. but really , we cannot allow this to spread to hysterical panic ..or we all lose control ..schools will close, no-one will go to work, no nurses, doctors, no police, no essential services, no water no electric .. no mechanics, no delivery drivers, no fuel pumps open, all because everyone  is  too frightened to leave the house..... panic everywhere... we  are all very rightly concerned,  but panic buying isn't the answer..


Obviously you have no experience in disasters. Waiting one day can leave you holding the bag (empty). The "unknown" is the key factor with this virus and as long as that holds true being prepared is paramount in dealing with the unknown.  Being prepared is not panicking.


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## AnnieA

Catlady said:


> I USED (long time ago) to like canned pineapple and peaches, also ravioli and chili.  I like homecooked beans (pinto) and rice with soy sauce and grated parmesan, but if there is no power, you can't cook them.  I also love my homemade marinara and freeze portions, but again, if the power goes out, the freezer is only good for maybe 48 hours.  How DID people live before refs and freezers?   LOL, we're spoiled!



It would have to get really bad for a long time for the power to go out.


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## hollydolly

AnnieA said:


> It would have to get really bad for a long time for the power to go out.


well it wouldn't take very long for the power to go out if everyone was stocking up and staying home..no electricity workers, keeping the grid working... ..I'm not being deliberately provocative Annie..you know me well enough to know that I think....   ..I'm just saying if people start panicking before there isn;t any real reason for panic in a particular area this is the type of thing which could easily happen.. of course there's no question as I stated in my earlier post, if you need or wish to stay home , if you feel safer then that's entirely your prerogative and sensible for you, and of course you must stock up, and anyay I'd hope most people should have a basic stock of food at all times anyway for any amount of reasons... all I'm saying is that panic buying..stripping shelves where there''s been no reports of the virus, is never a good idea....it leaves those elderly and poor, and those unable to shop for very much at any one time, without food in the stores...


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## Gary O'

hollydolly said:


> I'm just saying if people start panicking before there's isn;t any real reason for panic in a particular area this is the type of thing which could easily happen


I remember the false gas shortage
Gas stations, with cars lined up for miles
Tankers in the bay.....waiting for prices to peak
Stores with empty shelves
Freeways, empty
Didn't take that long

Gotta be wise
Sure, do some stocking up, but think.....you could be a contributor to a false shortage panic


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## bingo

the guy that bought 10lbs of sugar..?
going back to get an another 10lbs..?
must be planning on prohibition...ha!


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## hollydolly

AnnieA said:


> Just talked to a friend who bought some stuff yesterday at a Walmart in Texas.  He paid $2.20 for a 10 pound bag of sugar yesterday.  Decided to go back today and get another ...price had gone up to $3.79.


 I absolutely hate rip off merchants and opportunists


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## Gary O'

hollydolly said:


> I absolutely hate rip off merchants and opportunists


it's sure a part of it
the ugliest part


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## CatGuy

I've got 200 bags of ramen noodles and enough beer to re-float the Titanic. Bring on the bugs!


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## hollydolly

Gary O' said:


> it's sure a part of it
> the ugliest part


absolutely Gary...  if anything causes me sheer anger it's  robbing anyone, but most of all those who are least able to afford it and the vulnerable ...

I remember (talking about sugar earlier)... back in the 70''s here  the whole nation it seemed were either on strike  on a  3 day working  week , services were limited  ..refuse was piling up for weeks,  we'd have electricity cuts for hours at a time with no warning, people cleared the stores of torches, batteries, candles, toilet rolls etc... and all in all it was chaos..

Lots of food and fuel  was in shortage  and the supermarkets only permitted one 2 pound bag of sugar per person to be sold... if in fact there was any available.. there was so much panic buying of sugar ( I have no idea why) that instead of being known as the austere 70's it became the time of the ''sugar shortage''.

Anyway, on the edge of  town we had one little independent store... and after searching every supermarket for sugar and finding none, I finally went to the little out of town store.. he was charging* £5* a bag... !! I'll never forget it.. at the time I think the going rate for sugar was about 20pence...  I didn't buy the sugar from him ( couldn't have afforded it for one, but the principle would have been the same even if I could)..  I would have understood him adding a little extra to the price of a bag of sugar but taking the piss out of  customers when they were in need made my blood boil , and I vowed never to buy from that store again when things returned to normal..and I never did..and neither did loads of others, so  ultimately his business went to the wall and he was made bankrupt.

Just as an Addendum ...  a few years after this incident, this very same store owner, used to come into the pub and go around trying to cadge  drinks from everyone...


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## AnnieA

bingo said:


> the guy that bought 10lbs of sugar..?
> going back to get an another 10lbs..?
> must be planning on prohibition...ha!



I don't know how many people he's planning to feed.  He lives in the country and has a nice little mini farm.  He's got city relatives who are planning to stay with him if closures go into effect.


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## AnnieA

hollydolly said:


> I absolutely hate rip off merchants and opportunists



They may be doing that right at the first.   But as their distributors run out of stuff due to China's nearly at standstill production, the retailers will be paying more at their end due to shortages.  That increased cost will be passed along to us.


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## AnnieA

@hollydolly   Get what you can while you can, my friend!  I keep seeing 30 day's worth in multiple publications.

UK panic buyin has begun.


.


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## hollydolly

AnnieA said:


> @hollydolly   Get what you can while you can, my friend!  I keep seeing 30 day's worth in multiple publications.
> 
> UK panic buyin has begun.
> 
> 
> .


 I'm fortunate that I already always have kept a store cupboard, so I'm pretty much stocked up with those type of things because I buy in bulk every few months... but it looks like the panic has started here too... even though we only have a handful of confirmed cases in the whole country.. ...


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## Catlady

CatGuy said:


> I've got 200 bags of ramen noodles and enough beer to re-float the Titanic. Bring on the bugs!


Ugh, ramen, are you aware how SALTY that stuff is?  You must not have any blood pressure problems.  I've cut down a LOT on salt.

BTW, your avatar is simply fabulous, I LOVE that cat picture!


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## Wren

I’ve not touched my ‘Brexit Box’ yet, so looks like that might come in handy ...


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## Catlady

The pope is now sick.  The virus or just a cold?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8051083/Pope-cancels-visit-Rome-priests-slight-illness.html


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## squatting dog

Times like this make us prepper's smile.  I have only been off my property 3 times in the last month.  I'm good for at least 10 years with a few adjustments... I do feel bad for those who must face exposure to this latest scare.
As for the virus itself,
COVID-19: Confirmed Cases in the United States
Travel-related - 12
Person-to-person spread - 2
Total confirmed cases - 14
Total Deaths - 0
Total tested - 426
350 million people in the US
Numbers as of 4 p.m. EDT. 2/25/2020

SOUND THE DAMN ALARM. Ok, sarcasm off.


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## Don M.

AnnieA said:


> They may be doing that right at the first.   But as their distributors run out of stuff due to China's nearly at standstill production, the retailers will be paying more at their end due to shortages.  That increased cost will be passed along to us.



Given that the entire global manufacturing base seems to be built around the cheap Chinese labor, and the limited stockpiles of consumer goods, this Contravirus issue is going to have increasing long term effects on the entire global economies.  Even if a treatment/cure was found today, the ripple effects may well be extended for weeks/months.  There was a report on the news this morning that even Prescription Drugs may soon be affected....since many of the basic components of these drugs come from China.  The longer this thing drags on, the more we will All be affected, both by shortages and increasing prices. 

Today, the US stock market moved into "Correction" territory, and there is a real possibility that the markets may dip into "lows" not seen in years.  I can't recall any events in decades which have such a high level of "uncertainty" as this CoronaVirus scare.  If this virus becomes an issue here, much of the nations economy may grind to a halt.


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## exwisehe

I'm going to try to stay positive.  I remember in late Dec of 1999 when there was worry about Y2K, and everyone was sort of in a panic.  When I went to the supermarket the last night of 1999, almost everything was gone off the shelves.  But I bought 3 can of beans for 99 cents just to say if anyone asked that I was prepared.

Seriously, I think this will probably motivate a lot of us to change our life-styles in the coming months.


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## Gary O'

AnnieA said:


> They may be doing that right at the first. But as their distributors run out of stuff due to China's nearly at standstill production, the retailers will be paying more at their end due to shortages. That increased cost will be passed along to us.


It'll be interesting how soon the USA can get back into production
I wouldn't mind buying sugar from California or Hawaii under the C&H brand again.
Same with everything else, for sure meds.
I don't mind paying a higher price for something with reputable quality controls.
The stock markets will be in a tizzy for awhile
Heh, China's pricing was edging up anyway
It's the way the world economy works 

It all should be interesting


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## Gary O'

Don M. said:


> the entire global manufacturing base seems to be built around the cheap Chinese labor


Not so cheap anymore
They've become consumers themselves


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## Gary O'

squatting dog said:


> SOUND THE DAMN ALARM. Ok, sarcasm off.


Yeah, those stats look a bit pale in comparison with the regular old flu


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## Catlady

Gary O' said:


> I remember the false gas shortage
> Gas stations, with cars lined up for miles
> Tankers in the bay.....waiting for prices to peak



I remember being in those long lines, wondering if I would run out of gas before getting to my turn at the pump.  Then some guy told me that he had a friend at a gas station that told him to go after hours, there was plenty of gas available.  What a scam!


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## fuzzybuddy

This` is *Y2K*, all over again. The coronavirus is a normal flu virus. It is not some flesh eating ebolla. If you catch it, you will most probably survive it, by a wide margin, as you have survived other flues. Is it serious? Yes. Millions of people could get sick from the virus. And those with health issues could die, from getting the flu. That is a distinct possibility for those, who have significant health issues. Those are the people most at risk. If you can keep the virus at bay, then those compromised people won't die. So this is serious, but you don't need to freak out,-this is the flu. The vast majority of people, who get the flu will be ill for several days, but will survive. All those people infected on cruise ships are alive-NOT one of them has died. This is not the plaque. It's the flu.


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## JustBonee

Just something to think about ...

*The flu has already killed 10,000 across US as world frets over coronavirus*
PUBLISHED MON, FEB 3 2020  .. UPDATED TUE, FEB 4 20208:20 PM EST

KEY POINTS

The flu remains a higher threat to U.S. public health than the new coronavirus.
This flu season alone has sickened at least 19 million across the U.S. and led to 10,000 deaths and 180,000 hospitalizations.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/the...cross-us-as-world-frets-over-coronavirus.html


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## StarSong

Bonnie said:


> Just something to think about ...
> 
> *The flu has already killed 10,000 across US as world frets over coronavirus*
> PUBLISHED MON, FEB 3 2020 .. UPDATED TUE, FEB 4 20208:20 PM EST



Good point. We should be ignoring neither. 

If this new coronavirsu were only as virulent or deadly as a typical seasonal influenza, China wouldn't be shutting cities down.


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## Catlady

StarSong said:


> Good point. We should be ignoring neither.
> 
> If this new coronavirsu were *only as virulent or deadly as a typical seasonal influenza, China wouldn't be shutting cities down*.



Good point, I never though of it THAT way.  That IS scary!


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## Aunt Bea

I have more concerns over people's reactions to the Coronavirus than I do the virus itself.

It seems to be human nature that whenever we face something that we fear and don't really understand our first thought is to take some sort of action, to fight, to spend or buy our way out of it.

I'm very concerned that over the next few weeks any con man or huckster worthy of the name will be using our fear and be selling worthless protective clothing, vitamins, emergency rations, investment products for things that will benefit from the crisis, etc...

IMO all we can do is take a few common-sense precautions to prevent exposure to the virus as we continue to go about our daily lives.


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## gennie

squatting dog said:


> Times like this make us prepper's smile.  I have only been off my property 3 times in the last month.  I'm good for at least 10 years with a few adjustments... I do feel bad for those who must face exposure to this latest scare.
> As for the virus itself,
> COVID-19: Confirmed Cases in the United States
> Travel-related - 12
> Person-to-person spread - 2
> Total confirmed cases - 14
> Total Deaths - 0
> Total tested - 426
> 350 million people in the US
> Numbers as of 4 p.m. EDT. 2/25/2020
> 
> SOUND THE DAMN ALARM. Ok, sarcasm off.


I hope you're right but C.I.C reports even fewer cases for U.S.  But then CDC and WHO have different figures.


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## StarSong

Our pantry and emergency water supply remain well-stocked year round.  Bought masks some time ago for hubby to use while sanding.  No, they're not respirator quality, but if this goes bad a little protection will be better than none.    

At this point, our only purchases motivated by this potential crisis will be additional hand sanitizer and topping off our vehicles with fuel. None of which will be wasted if this turns out to be a tempest in a teapot.


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## AnnieA

squatting dog said:


> Total tested - 426
> 350 million people in the US



Every time I read how little testing we've done I just shake my head in disbelief.  That's proof right there that people making top decisions in govt (and media) knew it was coming and there was nothing to do about it.    If you don't test, cases aren't reported and people keep going to work and buying useless crap until the lid blows in multiple communities nationwide.  According to the long incubation period, that should be about now.


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## fmdog44

Internet buying will soar and those buyers then offer them on line for huge mark ups. I have seen this in the protective masks category. So we now have three things to deal with, 1. the virus, 2. the economy and 3. the price gougers looking to make an extra buck off the whole mess. Remember those merchants when it's over and never use them again.


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## CarolfromTX

Disaster? Crisis? I think the entire world is overreacting.


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## Gaer

I went to the grocery in my little island town in Alaska (when I lived there) and looked around for milk, bread, butter, eggs; there were none.  I asked a man who worked there and he said, "Yea, This will all come up on the barge a week from next Thursday."  "Hopefully."
I went home and told my husband.  He said, "You didn't complain about it, did you?"  I said,"No."  He said "Don't."  "This happens all the time!  Sometimes the barges can't get here because of the weather.  We make do with what we have."
Wow!  Really made me understand how spoiled I was to expect everything there for me.  (They DID have T.P.)


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## Geezerette

Posts like these panic susceptible people unnecessarily. People don’t raid the stores during a bad regular flu season. Practice your normal good hygiene, follow RELIABLE news and health information  sources, keep your food shopping at normal levels. The “sky isn’t falling.”


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## AnnieA

Geezerette said:


> Posts like these panic susceptible people unnecessarily. People don’t raid the stores during a bad regular flu season. Practice your normal good hygiene, follow RELIABLE news and health information  sources, keep your food shopping at normal levels. The “sky isn’t falling.”



I hope you're right.   But re-posting part of the OP.  No one has said this about the flu in my lifetime or my retired nurse mom's lifetime.  But maybe you don't consider Messionnier a reliable source...

*The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Tuesday warned that it expects the novel coronavirus that has sparked outbreaks around the world to begin spreading at a community level in the United States, as a top official (Nancy Messonnier, director of CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases) said that disruptions to daily life could be “severe.” *


My point in making the thread is that people are going to panic and if you're smart, you'll go ahead of it.  We're seeing it in other parts of the world and are being told by high ranking officials that it's likely here.


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## Gardenlover

Epidemic or mediademic?


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## squatting dog

(Disclaimer) Not a real picture set, but it did make me smile.


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## RadishRose

What is EMP?


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## Gardenlover

RadishRose said:


> What is EMP?


Electromagnetic pulse - Disables electronics


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## AnnieA

RadishRose said:


> What is EMP?



Electromagnetic Pulse.   As a weapon of war it would most likely be a small nuke detonated above the earth's atmosphere that won't actually cause bomb damage but will fry pretty much anything electric beneath the atmosphere including electric plant equipment, computer circuitry etc.

That's likely why North Korea is focusing on small nukes and satellites ...but thankfully their tests so far have pretty much all gone awry ...here's hoping they never get it figured out.  A satellite delivered nuke would allow detonation over a specific target.  There's no need to spend a lot of money on lots of bombs to take out first world nations.  Just cut off the power, wait a year or so and waltz right in ...that is if the first world nation didn't blow you to smitherines right after the EMP attack.  A person evil enough to use a weapon like that would be long gone from his country of origin before he ordered the nuke strike though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse


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## Judycat

We shall endure.


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## AnnieA

hollydolly said:


> ...all I'm saying is that panic buying..stripping shelves where there''s been no reports of the virus, is never a good idea....it leaves those elderly and poor, and those unable to shop for very much at any one time, without food in the stores...



That's why I posted here because we are a Senior forum and there are people here who will have difficulties once a lot of people start panicking  ...in hopes that they can shop for extras before it's a madhouse.   If I were trying to incite panic, I'd post on facebook, but haven't.  I've let five friends and family members know it might get bad and all but one of those have elderly family members they care for.

Stripping shelves is a horrible idea, but it's what some panicked people do.  That's why it's good to get to the stores beforehand and get what you need for a month at best ...at least two weeks and get stuff that you'll use if by some chance there isn't panic.  Thanks to years of fairly minor but consistent prepping, all I've had to do is top off.  In the next few days I'll probably buy some store brand basics for a few people in my hometown who are financially strapped and not the sharpest tools in the shed when it comes to planning ahead.


----------



## AnnieA

American panic buying in the news.  Probably a combo reaction to the stock market and Bill Gates' editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine.   Knew we were a day or so out Wednesday when I posted. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-shelves-stripped-bare-coronavirus-panic.html


----------



## Ladybj

CatGuy said:


> I've got 200 bags of ramen noodles and enough beer to re-float the Titanic. Bring on the bugs!


I'm coming to your house..  I will bring the Chardonnay, shrimp, crab legs and plenty of FUN!!!!!


----------



## Ladybj

S


AnnieA said:


> I don't know how many people he's planning to feed.  He lives in the country and has a nice little mini farm.  He's got city relatives who are planning to stay with him if closures go into effect.


Sugar...I will need FOOD


----------



## C'est Moi

I'm seeing no "panic buying" in the Houston area.   Calm down, Ethyl.


----------



## Ladybj

AnnieA said:


> That's why I posted here because we are a Senior forum and there are people here who will have difficulties once a lot of people start panicking  ...in hopes that they can shop for extras before it's a madhouse.   If I were trying to incite panic, I'd post on facebook, but haven't.  I've let five friends and family members know it might get bad and all but one of those have elderly family members they care for.
> 
> Stripping shelves is a horrible idea, but it's what some panicked people do.  That's why it's good to get to the stores beforehand and get what you need for a month at best ...at least two weeks and get stuff that you'll use if by some chance there isn't panic.  Thanks to years of fairly minor but consistent prepping, all I've had to do is top off.  In the next few days I'll probably buy some store brand basics for a few people in my hometown who are financially strapped and not the sharpest tools in the shed when it comes to planning ahead.


My pantry is always stocked..  I may stock up a bit more to share if need be.  When in panic mode people are thinking of survival for self...it's human nature.


----------



## AnnieA

C'est Moi said:


> I'm seeing no "panic buying" in the Houston area.   Calm down, Ethyl.



*sighs*   The whole point of the OP is you don't _*want *_to see it. People are starting and it'll snowball. The panic is when you want to be at home chilling out with a glass of red wine and some dark chocolate to boost the immune system ...that'll cost 4X as much in a few weeks. If crowds and high prices are your happy place, by all means sit at your computer, keep posting about something that you consider to be nonsense and hold off shopping until next week when it'll be really fun.

When Bill Gates writes an editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine saying this is a once in a century pathogen, people take note.  He did just that today.


----------



## AnnieA

Ladybj said:


> ...When in panic mode people are thinking of survival for self...it's human nature.



Mine is more thinking of survival for younger family and less stress if I don't get sick.  If I were to test positive for COVID-19 today (which is a complete joke thanks to our CDC who are hardly testing at all), I wouldn't seek medical care.  Nothing much works but serum from a recently recovered patient and that's not mainstream medicine.  Given that 50+ and pre-existing heath conditions have not so great odds, I wouldn't want to take up space that'll be needed to treat sick doctors and nurses.


----------



## Lakeland living

I keep things stocked up living up this way, been socked in here 3 days now. Text says they will be in early early in the morning. A friend checks up on me once in a while.
     Although cold and windy with up to 2 feet of snow it was nice.


----------



## C'est Moi

Nevermind.


----------



## win231

hollydolly said:


> ..I'm trying not to make light of this because it's a very serious issue,, but we mustn't start panic buying in areas where the coronavirus hasn't even taken hold... it'll cause absolute anarchy and mayhem..... incidentally, if there was only peanut butter to stock up on I'd starve  I hate that stuff...
> 
> The thing is how much stuff is anyone expected to stock up on, even?..I mean for how long if you were to do it?... 2 weeks..? 2 months...a year ..?.....how can we know if in fact this virus isn't just going to fade away almost as quickly as it passes..
> 
> No harm in stocking up with essentials if you plan not leave the house for a while..perhaps you have someone at home who is weak, old, infirm , or recovering from serious illness and you want to reduce the chances of any coronarvirus entering your home..fair enough stock up and stay self quarantined.. ..but
> 
> ..as long as we  we practice good hygiene , ensure hands are washed thoroughly with soap and hot water several times a day, stay away from anyone who has coughs and sneezes...  and by all means wear a mask if you have to go out where there are crowds..airports, stations, stores etc.. but really , we cannot allow this to spread to hysterical panic ..or we all lose control ..schools will close, no-one will go to work, no nurses, doctors, no police, no essential services, no water no electric .. no mechanics, no delivery drivers, no fuel pumps open, all because everyone  is  too frightened to leave the house..... panic everywhere... we  are all very rightly concerned,  but panic buying isn't the answer..


I'm stocking up on peanut butter.  I love it.


----------



## Catlady

I'm going shopping tomorrow, will buy a few things like can foods (which I never buy) just in case this is NOT a false alarm.


----------



## Catlady

win231 said:


> I'm stocking up on *peanut butter.  I love it.*


I have the perfect recipe for you, I've made them and they're really delicious!  And really easy to make.

https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/peanut-butter-coconut-cookies/

https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/healthy-peanut-butter-cookies/


----------



## AnnieA

Catlady said:


> I'm going shopping tomorrow, will buy a few things like can foods (which I never buy) just in case this is NOT a false alarm.



The way I see it, it's a hedge against food price inflation.  Most anything with a chemical component is a least partly made in China and they're nowhere near producing normally.  That includes things we don't normally think like food preservatives.  So I'm buying canned stuff I know I'll eat like pineapple, mandarin oranges and some gluten free Progresso soups that are good.  Idahoan baby red instant potatoes are super good. And it's a good thing I really like Spam.   This will give me a chance to justify eating it more! Thinly sliced and fried crispy with lots of mustard! And Dinty Moore beef stew has good childhood memories so I got some of that. Tomorrow I'll make my last big shop for lettuce, tomato and herb plants.

And in case you haven't noticed  ...I really hate shopping in crowds.


----------



## Catlady

AnnieA said:


> The way I see it, it's a hedge against food price inflation.  Most anything with a chemical component is a least partly made in China and they're nowhere near producing normally.  That includes things we don't normally think like food preservatives.  So I'm buying canned stuff I know I'll eat like pineapple.  And it's a good thing I really like Spam.    This will give me a chance to justify eating it more!  Thinly sliced and fried crispy with lots of mustard!
> 
> And in case you haven't noticed  ...I really hate shopping in crowds.


I kind of remember buying Spam eons ago and I think I liked it, but I'm a vegetarian now for 35 years, so that's out. 

 Canned pineapple I like, but never buy it, will buy it tomorrow.  I don't like canned food, lots of preservatives and in contact with that metal, YUK.  The only canned food I buy is tomatoes for sauce, tomato paste, black olives, and diced chiles, can't remember anything else.


----------



## Gary O'

win231 said:


> I'm stocking up on peanut butter. I love it.


Run to Costco!
I got the last 16 jars at the one nearest me


----------



## Lakeland living

Love peanut butter here too, have 4 jars of the crunchy in stock. You can live on this stuff too..


----------



## Packerjohn

I will not be stock-piling anything.  What will be, will be. (Que Sera, Sera, Doris Day)


----------



## CarolfromTX

I'm happy to report that we went to the grocery store yesterday and no one seemed to be in a panic. Shelves were full. Get a grip, people!


----------



## CatGuy

CarolfromTX said:


> I'm happy to report that we went to the grocery store yesterday and no one seemed to be in a panic. Shelves were full. Get a grip, people!


Ditto. I cannot figure out why everyone is all in a tizzy over a disease that is nowhere near as virulent as it's made out to be. Not only do the vast majority of those infected live, but there is are undoubtedly a substantial number who are never counted at all, since they never seek medical attention for what seems to them just a common cold.

That said, it's certainly no joke, either, and is a serious risk to those who are compromised by chronic illness or age (very young or very old). But I've seen nothing anywhere that merits the insane responses going on all around. People will be sheeple sometimes


----------



## oldman

However, realistically, China’s productivity rating has been evaluated to be in negative territory by month’s end. Something like -4%. Their ability to keep up with demands for items made in China has seriously declined. 

As for food and life’s necessities here in the U.S., I doubt if there will be any issues. Americans have always come through in tough times. We are able to adapt and overcome. Just like my beloved Corps. 

I can still remember when the Ebola Virus was a big deal. Today, it’s almost unheard of from around the world.


----------



## AnnieA

oldman said:


> I can still remember when the Ebola Virus was a big deal. Today, it’s almost unheard of from around the world.




Ebola wasn't too much of  concern to me because of it's mode of transmission other than worry about family and friends who might have to take care of infected foreigners who traveled here for treatment.   You could get masks for next to nothing after that scare faded.  This is different.  Lowball estimates of virulence (R0) and mortality are much higher than the flu, increasing drastically each decade above 50.    

The "just the flu" crowd  can't possibly know that for a new pathogen that (according to CDC posts for quarantine workers) is appx three months old.


----------



## JustBonee

CarolfromTX said:


> I'm happy to report that we went to the grocery store yesterday and no one seemed to be in a panic. Shelves were full. Get a grip, people!



Same here.


----------



## Lakeland living

In a store 3 days ago, no sign of anything but a large sale of paper towels. Did not see too many going out the door.   My shopping list had 6 items. Peanut Butter at the top....lol


----------



## Lakeland living

Just heard that the stores in California are starting to get stripped out. Has anyone heard anything about this?


----------



## CarolfromTX

If the media were trying to cause a panic, they couldn't have done a better job.


----------



## Lakeland living

They were told to prepare...check out the extremes...192 cans of spam??

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-shelves-stripped-bare-coronavirus-panic.html


----------



## JustBonee

*Supermarket shelves are starting to be stripped bare as Americans prepare for the spread of coronavirus*
*People have been panic buying items ever since health authorities warned that Americans should start preparing for domestic acceleration of the virus*
*Supplies have been flying off the shelves with people posting photos on social media showing the lack of products available in some stores and pharmacies *
*In California, some Walgreens stores had been completely depleted of cough medicines, cold and flue medications, vaporizers, masks and thermometers*
*Shoppers in Hawaii were buying up flatbeds of canned goods, bottled water, toilet paper and paper towels from a local Costo *
*A supermarket aisle in Virginia had been stripped of non-perishables like pasta *
*U.S. stock indexes fell sharply again at the open on Friday as the coronavirus outbreak raised the alarm for a possible global recession *
*It comes as thousands of people were buying up face masks and the U.S. government said it is planning to stockpile 300 million masks*
*There are now 60 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in the U.S. and the first case where the origin of the disease is unknown was confirmed on Wednesday *

Good grief ...  nothing like that happening in our part of the country.   

Hope that woman enjoys her spam!


----------



## OneEyedDiva

I have always stocked up on stuff.  Having been Costco shoppers for years, we just got used to buying in bulk.  Now that my husband is gone, I still do. I know I'll always need toilet paper and baby wipes, I'll always use peanut butter and pouch tuna. It's good to have bottled water for emergencies. I also have an 18 pack box of Ritz crackers. I found out that they last well beyond the best by (BB) date when refrigerated. In the event I can't get bread, I'll have the crackers. I have many other staples that will last quite awhile, most of them with BB dates well into the future. Starting last December, I did quite a bit of shopping just to stock up; some things from Walmart.com to take advantage of Discover's 5% cash back, some from Costco and some from my local supermarket.

It's a good point about the medications. I'll reorder all the ones that my pharmacy deems refillable. It never hurts to be prepared and well stocked, no matter the reason. My sister is the same way. It always gets me how people run to the supermarkets and home stores to stock up on things when a storm is coming only to find bare shelves. Why wait until it becomes critical?


----------



## Buckeye

Went to a nearby Wally World this morning (Saturday).  Shelves were full and the parking lot mostly empty.  The reality for a lot of folks here in Appalachia is that "stocking up" is not economically feasible.  Many live literally from pay check to pay check, and those are the ones who are lucky enough to have a job.  The local food banks are going to be in serious trouble by the end of March if the panic gets worse, and the hoarders take over.  God help us all.


----------



## OneEyedDiva

Buckeye said:


> Went to a nearby Wally World this morning (Saturday).  Shelves were full and the parking lot mostly empty.  The reality for a lot of folks here in Appalachia is that "stocking up" is not economically feasible.  Many live literally from pay check to pay check, and those are the ones who are lucky enough to have a job.  The local food banks are going to be in serious trouble by the end of March if the panic gets worse, and the hoarders take over.  God help us all.


I realize that some people can't afford to stock up. Unfortunately I know people in that situation; some are seniors, some younger. But for those who can afford to, it's IMO wise to do so.


----------



## WhatInThe

Last time I saw this directly was while I was living in the direct path of a hurricane with many residents new to the area along with being on the younger side never having experienced a natural catastrophe or severe weather period. That's who does the panic buying. Many are always prepared or buy ahead of time. The over or excessive buyers are the ones that are most dangerous in more ways than one. They're the ends justify the means types.

Wait until the little ones start getting into those stock piles 6 months from now. Just like the gasoline hoarders with generators. Not only can all that gas go bad having ten times the amount of normally stored gas makes the place a fire hazard.

It's scary how many sheeple out there have designated or accepted the msm as their shepherd.


----------



## Leann

There doesn't seem to be any sign of panic in the small town where I live. I went to the grocery store yesterday and everything was normal. I always keep all kinds of organic flour (bread, pastry, all purpose and whole wheat) in my freezer. I make my own breads, muffins, pizza dough, cookies and pie crusts from scratch and I have all of the additional ingredients needed to make any of those in my refrigerator and cabinets. Because I live alone, I make and freeze so I always have a wide selection of homemade foods to select from. I'm vegetarian so I do buy a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables from local farmers. I also keep dried beans and plenty of brown rice on hand.


----------



## Judycat

IGMTHWY syndrome.


----------



## StarSong

I'm hitting Costco today for a typical shopping trip, not to stock up because my backup pantry is always wall stocked.  It'll be interesting to see what items, if any, are noticeably out of stock.

I don't designate the MSM as my shepherd, I look at relevant information, listen to experts in the field (politicians don't qualify) and draw my own conclusions.

Fact 1: China, a country with a long history of downplaying disasters to its own citizens and the world, has quarantined or residential locked down some 800 million people for a month. (No way they'd do this unless they perceived a very serious threat.) Their case numbers have stabilized, but who knows what will happen when quarantines are lifted?

Fact 2: Other countries are likewise quarantining people and areas immediately upon diagnosing the virus's presence. (If it appeared China was overreacting, other countries would take less drastic responses. Instead, they're upping the ante.) Schools, sporting events, public gatherings, conventions, etc., are being cancelled left and right.

Fact 3: As of this moment, Johns Hopkins tracking site shows total confirmed cases at 86,688, deaths at 2933, recovered at 39,761. I'll readily admit to not being an epidemiologist, but I do understand mathematics and have a calculator nearby.
2933 deaths versus 39,761 recovered = Of diagnosed cases with a final result (recovered or died), 7.3% have died.
2933 deaths versus 86,688 total cases = Of diagnosed cases, 3.3% have died.

Fact 4: World Health Organization declared the outbreak has reached the "highest level" of risk for the world, with its director-general warning it can go in "any direction."

Pretty serious stuff by my reckoning.


----------



## fuzzybuddy

When it comes to "mediademics", I wish I were back in the days before the internet. That's when the only truly inane, naive, unjustified and idiotic "the sky is falling" nonsense came from Congress.


----------



## fuzzybuddy

Why am I waiting for some idiot to say that we have to sacrifice a virgin to the coronavirus god?


----------



## Ruthanne

This thread made me think of buying some extra food to stock up...so I got double on some of the usual stuff I get.  I'm not going to get into a panic about the Coronavirus, though, heck there isn't even one case of it in my state.  I can see the  media is going nuts with it constantly now.  Some doctors are saying the regular flu is affecting many more than this new virus.  A prominent doctor in my city died of it this month--from complications of it, that is, of the "regular" flu whatever that is.


----------



## WhatInThe

The best thing one can do now is make sure you car gas tank is topped off for the next month or so. I've seen water and gas go first in panics like these. But are some of the first resources to be replenished.

Just a reminder. At the peak of the 2018 flu season 80,000 died many of which are side effects like pneumonia which is one of the highest killers of seniors.

https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/

Yet the media seems to be in freakazoid mode after ONE death in Washington. And the patient didn't travel which is more proof this story/virus has been around a lot longer before the msm got a hold of it. This thing could've been around last winter for all we know.  And yes don't trust China because along with the cover up what the heck were they trying to do with this thing.


----------



## JustBonee

WhatInThe said:


> Last time I saw this directly was while I was living in the direct path of a hurricane with many residents new to the area along with being on the younger side never having experienced a natural catastrophe or severe weather period. That's who does the panic buying. Many are always prepared or buy ahead of time. The over or excessive buyers are the ones that are most dangerous in more ways than one. They're the ends justify the means types.
> 
> Wait until the little ones start getting into those stock piles 6 months from now. Just like the gasoline hoarders with generators. Not only can all that gas go bad having ten times the amount of normally stored gas makes the place a fire hazard.
> 
> It's scary how many sheeple out there have designated or accepted the msm as their shepherd.




Yes,  the only time I would consider buying over and above normal purchases is when a major storm is headed my  way.  .. Have had a couple hurricanes to contend with over the years.   Got supplies like  food/water for the timeframe that was forecast for the area.   We were given plenty of information to get things in order for living through that type of situation.    

But this  ...  I guess people can always donate to food pantries  when they have food stored now,    that is going to face expiration later.


----------



## Catlady

Leann said:


> There doesn't seem to be any sign of panic in the small town where I live. I went to the grocery store yesterday and everything was normal. I always keep all kinds of organic flour (bread, pastry, all purpose and whole wheat) in my freezer. I make my own breads, muffins, pizza dough, cookies and pie crusts from scratch and I have all of the additional ingredients needed to make any of those in my refrigerator and cabinets. Because I live alone, I make and freeze so I always have a wide selection of homemade foods to select from. I'm vegetarian so I do buy a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables from local farmers. I also keep dried beans and plenty of brown rice on hand.


I could have written your post.  I live alone and make and do what you said and am also a vegetarian (lacto-ovo).  Do you mind to convo me your recipe or link to your favorite bread?


----------



## Leann

Catlady said:


> I could have written your post.  I live alone and make and do what you said and am also a vegetarian (lacto-ovo).  Do you mind to convo me your recipe or link to your favorite bread?



This is my all-time favorite bread recipe. I hope you like it!

1 1/2 Tbl. instant yeast
2 c. warm water
1/3 c. honey
3 - 4 c. whole wheat flour
1 1/2 tsp. salt
1/8 - 1/2 c. any add-ins (oats, sunflower seeds, ground flax seeds, etc.)
Combine yeast, water and honey in the bowl of a stand mixer; let sit for 5 minutes or until frothy and
bubbly. Add 1 1/2 cups of flour, any add-ins and salt and mix until combined. Add remaining flour, 1/2
cup at a time, until you get a soft dough. The dough should barely pull away from the sides of the bowl
and it will still be a little sticky. Using the dough hook, knead for 4 minutes on low, cover and let rise until
doubled. Punch down dough (spray hands with cooking spray) and put in a greased loaf pan. Let rise
again until doubled. Bake at 350 degrees for 30 minutes. Remove from oven. Cool in pan for 10 minutes,
then remove loaf and cool completely.
*If you use freshly ground wheat flour, you might need to add more like 5- 5 1/2 cups of flour.


----------



## Sunny

Holly, the doctor mostly put me to sleep, but I enjoyed the Belushi Star Trek episode!


----------



## Lvstotrvl

I saw no panic when I went shopping today!


----------



## Lakeland living

I have a list, mostly stuff I am about to run out of.. as of 2 days ago there is no sign of the panic stuff up this way. ALTHOUGH, some extra peanut butter will fit in.


----------



## Catlady

Thanks, @Leann !

Since you didn't give me a title, I named it after you,  "Leann's Wheat Bread".  LOL  I don't have a bread machine, so will figure it out for making by hand.


----------



## Leann

Catlady said:


> Thanks, @Leann !
> 
> Since you didn't give me a title, I named it after you,  "Leann's Wheat Bread".  LOL  I don't have a bread machine, so will figure it out for making by hand.


You're very welcome. I don't have a bread machine either. I mix the ingredients in a Kitchenaid mixer with a dough hook then let the dough rise in the same bowl for the first rising. Then I transfer it to an oiled glass loaf pan to let it rise the second (and final) time. 

I use raw oats as an add-in but you can use whatever you like. Sunflower seeds work nicely, too.


----------



## StarSong

No panic at Costco Business Center today either, however they were very low on cold meds like Nyquil and completely out of rubbing alcohol and hand sanitizer.  I went to Target afterward for hand sanitizer.  The shelves were completely empty but an employee had a couple of small cartons of it, and was handing it out to eager shoppers.  They surely ran out by the time I left the store.  I bought two 8 oz. bottles, though the employee offered me more if I'd wanted.   

At Target, most carts contained bleach-based cleaning wipes, bottles of Clorox, dish soap, diapers, TP, and paper towels (plus other non-virus related items.)  Nobody had hoarding-level quantities, I'm happy to say. Just a package or two of each.


----------



## fmdog44

You don't gage or predict panic rather, you learn about it after it ignites and you are left holding the bag which is now empty. I personally put very little trust in human nature having witnessed riots, burnings and lootings that were responses to a single incident. What has always been wrong with panic buying is one person can go in and buy a disproportionate amount of bread or whatever and they get away with it. I see a monster size difference between the threat of death versus weather related panics. It worries me how negative the media is being.


----------



## Sunny

It's a running joke around here that every time the weatherman predicts snow, there is a big run on toilet paper, milk, and bread.  I've never understood why. It hardly ever snows any more, but even when it does, it's usually a light snowfall which is gone in a day or two. This is a very temperate climate; our problem is the summer humidity, not the occasional snow in winter.

Anyway, I've been wondering if this virus is really triggering off panic buying (and this forum is the first I've heard about it!), maybe I should stock up on toilet paper?  Just in case?


----------



## Packerjohn

Aha!  Perhaps me thinks that this is another one of those infamous "Fake News" that we hear about so much these days.  All this talk/scare about the new disease will, in due time, blow over when the next big news story comes in.  Remember, there are now over 8.4 billion on this planet.  1,000 plus people dying is sad but the world will go on.  A much bigger news & one that will effect many more people over the next decade or so is global warming.  If this disease scare has less people traveling around on jets, I don't think that it is such a bad thing.  Didn't Harry (former Prince Harry of royal UK) just tell us that there are too many tourists & that many beautiful sites on this planet are being spoiled & over-run.  I know that Harry is 100% right!  If more people stay home, the world will be a better place, me thinks.  Support the local economy, I say.  Anyway, I have been reading that those stag/hen parties from the UK have a lot of people on the European continent pretty mad!  It used to be "Football Hoodlums" that were a problem across Europe, but now it's those stag/hen parties.  There are plenty of lovely places in the UK to hold your "darn" stag/hen parties.  Support the local economy & save yourself & all your guests a pile of sterling.  What a novel idea!


----------



## Ladybj

AnnieA said:


> The way I see it, it's a hedge against food price inflation.  Most anything with a chemical component is a least partly made in China and they're nowhere near producing normally.  That includes things we don't normally think like food preservatives.  So I'm buying canned stuff I know I'll eat like pineapple, mandarin oranges and some gluten free Progresso soups that are good.  Idahoan baby red instant potatoes are super good. And it's a good thing I really like Spam.   This will give me a chance to justify eating it more! Thinly sliced and fried crispy with lots of mustard! And Dinty Moore beef stew has good childhood memories so I got some of that. Tomorrow I'll make my last big shop for lettuce, tomato and herb plants.
> 
> And in case you haven't noticed  ...I really hate shopping in crowds.


I use to LOVE spam.. you said it, thinly sliced with mustard...YUM.  Haven't had that in years.


----------



## Ladybj

Packerjohn said:


> I will not be stock-piling anything.  What will be, will be. (Que Sera, Sera, Doris Day)


My thoughts as well.  I always keep my pantry full just because and always will.


----------



## Packerjohn

There is a big article in this morning's paper about people stocking piling bathroom tissues, medicine, etc..  There is always a picture of some Asian people with face masks on.  They quoted Costco as the store where this is happening.  Sometimes, I get so sick of the news.  Some of the news is just plain fake.   I just read the headlines but refuse to read the articles.  Think I'll tune up my Epiphone guitar & sing a few of those wonderful old songs.  Life is pretty good once you get away from newspapers.  By the way, I don't know why some people are stock piling toilet paper.  As far as I know toilet paper is not made in China.  However, most people are pretty guillable & will believe almost anything they read in the papers or on the Internet.  Say, how about that $30 million dollars that guy from Nigeria wants you to help him move from Nigeria to your bank account.  He promises to give you a couple of million for your help & trouble.  You might as well believe in Santa Claus in July, witches, the 3 little pigs & Gremlins.  LOL


----------



## jerry old

Were acting like a herd of cattle that is stampeded
were part of the problem-quit it.


----------



## AnnieA

Packerjohn said:


> I just read the headlines but refuse to read the articles.



Then maybe you missed the update on mortality rates yesterday.  There is now an overall mortality rate of 3.4% -- higher than smallpox before vaccines and the 1918 Spanish Flu. The mortality rates increase over age 50 with an almost doubled increase for each decade beyond 50.

And you may have missed this morning's important announcement of US community spread ...not that that's a surprise since most of the rest of the world has demonstrated it for weeks.  The US CDC has been so incompetent in testing that we're just now finding out what has logically been going on for weeks given travel patterns.   These travel patterns and the communicablity of Covid-19 ensure that there's really no escaping the virus anywhere in the world ...certainly not US or Canada.

We can, however, lessen our exposure to crowds which is the whole point of this thread.


----------



## Sunny

The toilet paper stockpiling part of it didn't even appear until I mentioned that for a long time, people here have done that every time the weatherman predicts snow.  So, what does that have to do with it?

A lot of the posts, warnings, conjectures, etc. about this virus sound like the ravings of people in a state of panic.  Yes, there is an epidemic. Yes, it could result in the death of thousands (or millions) of people, like the Spanish flu did. So, everyone should use common sense, take as good care of ourselves as we can, and avoid going into public places that are known to be hotbeds of this virus.  Aside from this, all the rest of the fluttery warnings sound like a Victorian lady on a fainting couch.


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## jerry old

the Spanish Flu cannot be used as an example: medical intervention was
primitive when compared to what is available today.
there is a slight danger of hospital's being unable to deal with the
overcrowding
I am disappointed in us, there are several  post here  urging calm and dealing with the problem in a rational manner and there are many   post that urge  panic buying by alarmist post of shortage..  

Which group to you belong too?


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## AnnieA

jerry old said:


> the Spanish Flu cannot be used as an example: medical intervention was
> primitive when compared to what is available today.



It's based on actual math of people who are dying currently.  Covid-19's current mortality is higher than Spanish Flu in its day or smallpox before vaccination regardless of the degree of medical intervention.   There's no medication effective for this, no vaccine.



> here is a slight danger of hospital's being unable to deal with the
> overcrowding



Slight?  Do you have any experience in healthcare? The plain Jane flu --which even in a bad year is a walk in the park compared to Covid-19--overwhelms our healthcare infrastructure during outbreaks.



> I am disappointed in us, there are several  post here  urging calm and dealing with the problem in a rational manner and there are many   post that urge  panic buying by alarmist post of shortage..
> 
> Which group to you belong too?



The group not in denial.


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## jerry old

yep, worked in hospital as mental health worker several years- had gab fest with other depts. at lunch, dinner and when in their depts..

'We do what we can, people panic, run to ER when there is no need.''
'If we can deal with a-bombs, we can deal with anything.'

There was always cussing involving the antics of the pharmaceutical
companies-you can bet they jumped on this problem long before the general population became aware...
(The big four Rx people cleared 165 billion last year)

We have the best hospitalization
 network in the world (if you have the money)
There is indeed a potential for poor folks dying from lack of medical care, which may include those of us with Medicare and Medicaid.

Cure the infants and adults first, old folks are going to have to wait.
(Not true? yea it is) 

don't you think the barrage of fear is dangerous?


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## RadishRose

jerry old said:


> Cure the infants and adults first, old folks are going to have to wait.
> (Not true? yea it is)


I for one wouldn't want a baby or active adult to die in order to save my old self. I've had my turn, let them realize theirs.


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## Pepper

RadishRose said:


> I for one wouldn't want a *baby* or active adult to die in order to save my old self. I've had my turn, let them realize theirs.


I have heard many times on TV from the medical profession that it is NOT affecting children under 10, and they are studying why.  I was so relieved to hear this.  As to why? does anyone here think it has something to do with not reaching puberty yet?  What can be the reason?


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## AnnieA

jerry old said:


> don't you think the barrage of fear is dangerous?



No.  The basis of fear in humans is a protective measure unless it goes awry.  Fear of fear is causing denial which will result in panic once reality sets in.  That's what I've tried to warn against  ...getting caught up in the panic that's coming.


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## Pepper

jerry old said:


> We have the best hospitalization
> network in the world (if you have the money)
> There is indeed a potential for poor folks dying from lack of medical care, which may include those of us with Medicare and *Medicaid.*


If you live in the *Right State*, i.e. Massachusetts, New York and some others, which, I don't know, having Medicaid is no barrier to the best care available.  With Medicaid, you just have to be lucky where you live.

eta--Medicare too.


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## AnnieA

RadishRose said:


> I for one wouldn't want a baby or active adult to die in order to save my old self. I've had my turn, let them realize theirs.



Me either.   Or a parent of young children.  Or medical staff that can recover and go back to work helping others.  I have it in my mind (and hope that I can stick it out should it happen) that I won't seek treatment other than what I can do at home even if I get really sick.  There's nothing but supportive care for this, and too, too few ventilators.


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## jerry old

Ok, good, keep it up

People read cautionary statements differently, some of us have a fear
button easily triggered.
Some read them thoughtful
Others read them and head for the hills, dragging toilet paper (if they think
about it) and lots of canned beans.  (Humor?-sort'a, with an element of truth.)

We are a civilized bunch, I don't know how many post have mentioned
toilet paper.  That tells us something, I'm not sure what, but something.


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## jerry old

take the thread south
Double RR you ain't allowed to croak, you gott'a keep us informed and 'stuff.'
You can croak when the site does.


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## AnnieA

jerry old said:


> People read cautionary statements differently, some of us have a fear
> button easily triggered.
> Some read them thoughtful
> Others read them and head for the hills, dragging toilet paper (if they think
> about it) and lots of canned beans.  (Humor?-sort'a, with an element of truth.)



Some of us 'read thoughtful'  ...whatever you actually meant by that... and won't be out unnecessarily in crowds.  But no one will head for the hills from this unless they can do so for a long, long time.  

And some avoid fear with denial.


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## StarSong

jerry old said:


> yep, worked in hospital as mental health worker several years- had gab fest with other depts. at lunch, dinner and when in their depts..
> 
> 'We do what we can, people panic, run to ER when there is no need.''
> *'If we can deal with a-bombs, we can deal with anything.'*


Not to stray off-topic, but how exactly did "we" deal with a-bombs? My history class taught me that Japan dealt with them. And not very successfully as I recall. 

Your posts in this thread feel very condescending. There is no cure for this, thus it won't be infants and active adults first, old folks last. We're not talking lifeboat space here. 

People should have 3 days - 3 weeks worth of food and supplies on hand at all times. Supply chain interruptions can occur at any time for any reason. Those who don't have this habit find themselves fear-buying. Completely understandable. What's less understandable is why so many need to repeatedly learn the lesson of advance preparation. 

While it is foolhardy to panic, it's equally foolhardy to pretend that this is nothing more than a typical seasonal flu event.


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## jerry old

A-bombs
dress: rubberized gowns, one wing of hospital is shut down for training,
throw mattresses in hall, assuming your going to have wall to wall people   set up, set of triage, boxes of saline and bandages
organize who is to do what.... hope

CONDESCENDING-shame star, 
I'm say be prepared as much as possible, but stop the fear mongering.  
( I don't think we have to tell people to buy can goods only)
I've not stated what could happen-electrical grid collapses due to people
being sick and fearful.
Site forbids political posts: Have you see our national leaders address this problem?
I think I can state this:  Sanders said, when pinned by Rachel Maddox(sp) that political conventions may have to be reconsidered.


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## Catlady

I've never prepped, but am doing it now.  So far, I have one week for me and one month for my fur babies (I can eat anything, they can only  eat cat food).  I think that since the scientists don't even know how this virus is SPREAD, we have no idea how far and how long it will go.  Even IF it goes dormant during the warm weather, it may come back in the fall with a vengeance.   So, like the adage goes, "one ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure''.  I'm doing my ounce of prevention, and if the fear is overblown, that food won't go to waste.


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## AnnieA

@jerry old   Think this thread might be a better fit for you. You're looking increasingly foolish in this one.


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## jerry old

that was an arrogant statement,
I've found you post of interest


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## Gardenlover

I've been pretty much silent on this topic, but my thoughts are "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst." Panic has no place in the equation but neither does relying on your neighbor for your sustenance. If you want to label me, you could say I've been a prepper* since I went into business for myself 11 years ago as I never know when the golden goose may give up the ghost.

I understand differences of opinion, but infighting solves nothing. Each side of the debate has some value - be gentle with one another.

_*Just wish my stash wasn't a thousand miles away. Bad on me - but family and friends will still benefit if the need arises._


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## Pepper

Gardenlover said:


> I understand differences of opinion, but infighting solves nothing. Each side of the debate has some value - be gentle with one another.


Hippie.


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## Gardenlover

Pepper said:


> Hippie.


Power to the people - sister.


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## Pepper

Gardenlover said:


> Power to the people - sister.


I happen to know ALL the words to the original song.
"Power to the People
Power to the People
Black Power for Black People
Puerto Rican Power for Puerto Rican People
Third World Power for Third World People
Power to the People
Who will survive America?
Very few Negroes, no Pigs at All
Who will survive America?
Very few Negroes, no Pigs at All
Power to the People
Power to the People"

John Lennon plagiarized his version!


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## Catlady

Gardenlover said:


> I've been pretty much silent on this topic, but my thoughts are "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst." Panic has no place in the equation but neither does relying on your neighbor for your sustenance. If you want to label me, you could say I've been a prepper* since I went into business for myself 11 years ago as I never know when the golden goose may give up the ghost.
> 
> I understand differences of opinion, but infighting solves nothing. Each side of the debate has some value - be gentle with one another.
> 
> _*Just wish my stash wasn't a thousand miles away. Bad on me - but family and friends will still benefit if the need arises._



If it's going to work we need a peace pipe.  Will you get us one?


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## Gardenlover

Catlady said:


> If it's going to work we need a peace pipe.  Will you get us one?


How many do you need - I'm here to help.


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## Catlady

Gardenlover said:


> How many do you need - I'm here to help.


We only need one.  That's why it's called a ''peace pipe'', it means ''we're a team, one for all, all for one''.  Heh, heh.  

Coming from someone (me) who doesn't like to compromise.  I fully agree with you,  "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst."   Well said!


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## C'est Moi

Y'all can't share a peace pipe if you're quarantined with a mountain of toilet paper.  Jeeze.


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## StarSong

Pepper said:


> I happen to know ALL the words to the original song.
> "Power to the People
> Power to the People
> Black Power for Black People
> Puerto Rican Power for Puerto Rican People
> Third World Power for Third World People
> Power to the People
> Who will survive America?
> Very few Negroes, no Pigs at All
> Who will survive America?
> Very few Negroes, no Pigs at All
> Power to the People
> Power to the People"
> 
> John Lennon plagiarized his version!


The term "Power to the People" became a widespread rallying cry during 1960s war protests, well before John Lennon wrote his song.  It's not surprising that more than one person would set that phrase to music.  Having similar ideas isn't plagiarism.  If you're alos suggesting that he stole the melody, that would be a whole 'nother kettle of fish.  (I can't find anything to support that Lennon's version was plagiarized.) 

Just defending Mr. Lennon because he can't step forward for himself.


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## Pepper

@StarSong 
I was just kidding.  I LOVE John Lennon!


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## AnnieA

Police called to Cali Costco yesterday due to sell out of ...wait for it... toilet paper and bottled water. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Costo-mass-panic-broke-ran-toilet-paper.html


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## StarSong

At some point it seems likely that everyone will have a back up case of paper goods, toilet paper and water.  That should ease the panic.  

(Though why people need to keep buying bottle water is beyond my understanding.  Buy it once - or bottle it yourself in reusable plastic juice and 2 liter soda bottles.  Date it and store it.  After a year, use the water in your household, refill, and date it.)


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## Ken N Tx

AnnieA said:


> Hand sanitizer and Lysol/generic sprays effectively kill COVID-19 and are likely to run out
> Over the counter and RX meds -- 96% of US medicines or components come from China
> Vitamins -- similar percentages to meds made in China
> Toilet paper and toiletries
> Soaps


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## squatting dog




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## Sunny

Squatting Dog, LOL!

Swansong, I never understand the popularity of bottled water. My refrigerator has a water filter, and very clear, delicious water (and ice, if needed) come out of the refrigerator door. I do have a bottle that I bought water in one time from Costco (25 cents), and keep refilling it from the refrigerator!


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## Pepper

Sunny said:


> Swansong, I never understand the popularity of bottled water. My refrigerator has a water filter, and very clear, delicious water (and ice, if needed) come out of the refrigerator door. *I do have a bottle that I bought water in one time from Costco (25 cents), and keep refilling it from the refrigerator!*


Me too, and it's environmentally a good idea.


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## StarSong

Sunny said:


> Squatting Dog, LOL!
> 
> Swansong, I never understand the popularity of bottled water. My refrigerator has a water filter, and very clear, delicious water (and ice, if needed) come out of the refrigerator door. I do have a bottle that I bought water in one time from Costco (25 cents), and keep refilling it from the refrigerator!


We have a supply of home-bottled water in case of a large EQ, which could cause a disruption or contamination of water supplies.


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## Ken N Tx




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## Ken N Tx




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## C'est Moi

So I have been having my groceries delivered for the past year; just a convenience I enjoy.  Today I went online to place my weekly order and they are BOOKED SOLID until Sunday.   What the heck.


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## AnnieA

C'est Moi said:


> So I have been having my groceries delivered for the past year; just a convenience I enjoy.  Today I went online to place my weekly order and they are BOOKED SOLID until Sunday.   What the heck.



Gee.  Maybe people are panic buying.  Whodathunkit?  Such a surprise.  Just came out of nowhere, didn't it?


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## C'est Moi

AnnieA said:


> Gee.  Maybe people are panic buying.  Whodathunkit?  Such a surprise.  Just came out of nowhere, didn't it?


Actually, no.  Thanks to hysterical people plastering forums with every possible "update," it's hard not to know what is happening.


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## Ken N Tx




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## exwisehe

exwisehe said:


> I'm going to try to stay positive.


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## jerry old

There is too much information, too many opinions...
I'm going to crawl back into my hole for a year of so.
 

My opinions is *Horse-feathers*


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## AnnieA

exwisehe said:


> I'm going to try to stay positive.



Wow ...old thread resurrection.  What a long strange trip it's been....


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