# No room at the hospital



## Sunny (Oct 6, 2021)

Today's paper has an article about the number of hospitals that are going under financially because of Covid.  This is especially true in the areas where people are still refusing the vaccine.

Nurses are leaving in droves because they are exhausted and depressed, and regular staff nurses are being replaced by "contract nurses," who get paid many times more than the regular ones. And the hospitals are turning away many patients who need to go in for "elective" surgery, which may mean needed or desirable surgery, but not life-saving. There are no beds for anything other than Covid. So the sources of income for many hospitals are drying up.

What a tragedy for this nation. And it's all so unnecessary, caused by human stupidity and stubbornness. There really is no other way to put it.


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## SmoothSeas (Oct 6, 2021)

yeah...  a scourge, for sure...


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 6, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Today's paper has an article about the number of hospitals that are going under financially because of Covid.  This is especially true in the areas where people are still refusing the vaccine.
> 
> Nurses are leaving in droves because they are exhausted and depressed, and regular staff nurses are being replaced by "contract nurses," who get paid many times more than the regular ones. And the hospitals are turning away many patients who need to go in for "elective" surgery, which may mean needed or desirable surgery, but not life-saving. There are no beds for anything other than Covid. So the sources of income for many hospitals are drying up.
> 
> What a tragedy for this nation. And it's all so unnecessary, caused by human stupidity and stubbornness. There really is no other way to put it.


It's a sad situation for sure, my heart goes out to all the health care workers who have gone above and beyond their normal career duties to care for the public during this deadly worldwide pandemic.  Thanks to their families who have sacrificed along with them.

This is the 'pandemic of the unvaccinated', so many selfish people refusing to get available vacccines and follow safety guidelines.  They are a big reason we're in such bad shape in fighting this virus, and they only care about themselves.  The only ones who should not get vaccinated are those who cannot by direction of their physician, some are allergic to vaccine ingredients and others have serious medical issues and are heavily medicated and are not able to receive the shot.  Those folks still wear masks and try to keep themselves and others safe from infection.


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## Don M. (Oct 6, 2021)

This pandemic is creating a real mess at many of the hospitals.  Doctors and nurses are having to work overtime just to manage the Covid cases, and there are very limited opportunities for those with other conditions to get the care they need.  How long this can continue before it creates a major Nationwide health crisis remains to be seen.


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## Sunny (Oct 6, 2021)

Don, it does have a "natural selection" feel to it. Darwinism at work.


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## Tom 86 (Oct 6, 2021)

Here we have Drs & nurses leaving the hospitals because they "KNOW' that the vaccine is not good for their bodies.  This has been investigated so much here that when a person dies of a heart attack, stroke in old age it's counted as a Conav-19 death.  

They have finally come out & said only 1% of the deaths in this state are from Conav-19. & 50% are the vaccinated ones. They didn't want this to get out because they like the scare tactics that the unvaccinated people are the cause of all the deaths.    Well, they got caught red-handed & now have to change the way everything is reported to the CDC.


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## win231 (Oct 6, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> Here we have Drs & nurses leaving the hospitals because they "KNOW' that the vaccine is not good for their bodies.  This has been investigated so much here that when a person dies of a heart attack, stroke in old age it's counted as a Conav-19 death.
> 
> They have finally come out & said only 1% of the deaths in this state are from Conav-19. & 50% are the vaccinated ones. They didn't want this to get out because they like the scare tactics that the unvaccinated people are the cause of all the deaths.    Well, they got caught red-handed & now have to change the way everything is reported to the CDC.


Do you realize you're spoiling it for the "Covid Crazy Blamers" above?"


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## Murrmurr (Oct 6, 2021)

It varies here. The hospitals that are affiliated with major insurance companies (which, by Calif law, also accept MediCal and Medicare) are about 90% full on average and the rest are less than 50% full.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 6, 2021)

"Nurses are leaving in droves because they are exhausted and depressed, and regular staff nurses are being replaced by "contract nurses," who get paid many times more than the regular ones"

They are also leaving due to being forced to choose between a job that they have done commendably daily all through this pandemic but that doesn't matter does it? Just getting vaccinated is all that matters.   So now more exhaustion and depression for the nurses who are left to work, and more nurses leaving and having to pay higher prices for that labor. 

 Forced mandate is back firing on its self.


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## Sunny (Oct 6, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> Here we have Drs & nurses leaving the hospitals because they "KNOW' that the vaccine is not good for their bodies.  This has been investigated so much here that when a person dies of a heart attack, stroke in old age it's counted as a Conav-19 death.
> 
> They have finally come out & said only 1% of the deaths in this state are from Conav-19. & 50% are the vaccinated ones. They didn't want this to get out because they like the scare tactics that the unvaccinated people are the cause of all the deaths.    Well, they got caught red-handed & now have to change the way everything is reported to the CDC.


Tom, what is your source for this "information?"


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## win231 (Oct 6, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> Here we have Drs & nurses leaving the hospitals because they "KNOW' that the vaccine is not good for their bodies.  This has been investigated so much here that when a person dies of a heart attack, stroke in old age it's counted as a Conav-19 death.
> 
> They have finally come out & said only 1% of the deaths in this state are from Conav-19. & 50% are the vaccinated ones. They didn't want this to get out because they like the scare tactics that the unvaccinated people are the cause of all the deaths.    Well, they got caught red-handed & now have to change the way everything is reported to the CDC.


The scare tactics are working - for programmed non thinkers, including the few here.


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## Daytona Al (Oct 6, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Today's paper has an article about the number of hospitals that are going under financially because of Covid.  This is especially true in the areas where people are still refusing the vaccine.
> 
> Nurses are leaving in droves because they are exhausted and depressed, and regular staff nurses are being replaced by "contract nurses," who get paid many times more than the regular ones. And the hospitals are turning away many patients who need to go in for "elective" surgery, which may mean needed or desirable surgery, but not life-saving. There are no beds for anything other than Covid. So the sources of income for many hospitals are drying up.
> 
> What a tragedy for this nation. And it's all so unnecessary, caused by human stupidity and stubbornness. There really is no other way to put it.


I had surgery two weeks ago. It was postponed for over a month because of Covid.  There nurses and PCTs were literally working themselves to desk. I must say they still kept a smile on their face and gave me a high level of service, but you could tell that they were overwhelmed. My cousin is nurse, who has taken time out. It tells me that her could back today for $4,500 per week. But he doesn't feel that he can provide the necessary level of patient care under these conditions.


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## Daytona Al (Oct 6, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "Nurses are leaving in droves because they are exhausted and depressed, and regular staff nurses are being replaced by "contract nurses," who get paid many times more than the regular ones"
> 
> They are also leaving due to being forced to choose between a job that they have done commendably daily all through this pandemic but that doesn't matter does it? Just getting vaccinated is all that matters.   So now more exhaustion and depression for the nurses who are left to work, and more nurses leaving and having to pay higher prices for that labor.
> 
> Forced mandate is back firing on its self.


Everybody just get vaccinated.


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## win231 (Oct 6, 2021)

Daytona Al said:


> Everybody just get vaccinated.


You may think you have the right to make others' health decisions for them.  You are mistaken.
You have the right to program yourself; not others.


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## Irwin (Oct 6, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Tom, what is your source for this "information?"


Facebook.


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## Tom 86 (Oct 6, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Facebook.


No, I was Talking to the Drs & nurses myself.  They are the ones telling me all this.  Amazing how much FASE info is out there.  I go to the source to get my information.   Course there are a lot on TV that are not Drs but politicians spreading fear-mongering.  

This Pandemic is making drug manufactures extremely rich.  Also making the government happy as they can *CONTROL people *like Nazis did back in WWII
Are you ready for the next phase?  That's a death march/ride to Auschwitz.


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## win231 (Oct 6, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> No, I was Talking to the Drs & nurses myself.  They are the ones telling me all this.  Amazing how much FASE info is out there.  I go to the source to get my information.   Course there are a lot on TV that are not Drs but politicians spreading fear-mongering.
> 
> This Pandemic is making drug manufactures extremely rich.  Also making the government happy as they can *CONTROL people *like Nazis did back in WWII
> Are you ready for the next phase?  That's a death march/ride to Auschwitz.


Yes, & the pandemic is also bringing the "_Holier Than Thou" _fools out of the woodwork.


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## Remy (Oct 6, 2021)

We lost 4 and possibly a 5th employee will not be coming back (she took a leave) due to the vaccine mandate in California for health care workers. Several at the last minute got the first vaccine and they are being allowed to stay. They have to do a rapid test daily for two weeks after their second dose. Not one person I know who got vaccinated has had any long term issues. Some may say it's too early to tell but at this point, nothing.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Oct 6, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "Nurses are leaving in droves because they are exhausted and depressed, and regular staff nurses are being replaced by "contract nurses," who get paid many times more than the regular ones"
> 
> They are also leaving due to being forced to choose between a job that they have done commendably daily all through this pandemic but that doesn't matter does it? Just getting vaccinated is all that matters.   So now more exhaustion and depression for the nurses who are left to work, and more nurses leaving and having to pay higher prices for that labor.
> 
> Forced mandate is back firing on its self.


Cry me a river! The 1400 fired from this hospital system made their choice. Luckily, it's a job seekers market. Some of these now unemployed individuals may have some luck as school bus drivers or restaurants workers that have great demand nationwide.

"The largest healthcare provider in New York has fired 1,400 employees who refused to get COVID-19 vaccinations despite a statewide mandate."

https://www.businessinsider.com/cov...northwell-health-fires-employees-2021-10?op=1

With these refusers out on the pavement, the company has reached it goal to protect its patients.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 6, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> They have finally come out & said only 1% of the deaths in this state are from Conav-19. & 50% are the vaccinated ones. They didn't want this to get out because they like the scare tactics that the unvaccinated people are the cause of all the deaths. Well, they got caught red-handed & now have to change the way everything is reported to the CDC.


Where are you getting this information Tom?  Link to the source please so we all can read it.


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## Patch (Oct 6, 2021)

Good riddance to those health care workers who refuse to be vaccinated.  "Health care worker".  Is it better to have less capacity to treat patients or have employees endanger the patients that need care??  Just read this afternoon that, nationally, medical facilities are losing slightly less than 1% of their employees due to the vaccine mandate.    Have personally visited with three MD's in the past month.  All are saying, "Get the vaccine!  It's a matter of life and death!"  Granddaughter has worked at a large nursing home facility for almost three years.  They are losing close to two dozen employees.  So, they are not filling vacancies in the short term.  She says the administration has a number of rooms they need empty for the shorter staff to accommodate.  Then, as more vaccinated nurses come on staff, more rooms can be opened.  

Most states have a minimum number of vaccines required by health care workers.  Hepatitis B, etc.  Some states even require nursing staffs to have the flu vaccine.  No one rebels against those mandates.  The ONLY reason there is reluctance towards the COVID vaccine is the disinformation pushed by a certain political persuasion.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 6, 2021)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> Cry me a river! The 1400 fired from this hospital system made their choice. Luckily, it's a job seekers market. Some of these now unemployed individuals may have some luck as school bus drivers or restaurants workers that have great demand nationwide.
> 
> "The largest healthcare provider in New York has fired 1,400 employees who refused to get COVID-19 vaccinations despite a statewide mandate."
> 
> ...


"With these refusers out on the pavement, the company has reached it goal to protect its patients."


Well then I guess the below statement is false surely because they have reached their goal of nurses, and now there are no longer exhausted nurses, they have plenty of help. I'm sure that's happening everywhere, since its so successful.

"Nurses are leaving in droves because they are exhausted and depressed,"


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 6, 2021)

Patch said:


> Good riddance to those health care workers who refuse to be vaccinated.  "Health care worker".  Is it better to have less capacity to treat patients or have employees endanger the patients that need care??  Just read this afternoon that, nationally, medical facilities are losing slightly less than 1% of their employees due to the vaccine mandate.    Have personally visited with three MD's in the past month.  All are saying, "Get the vaccine!  It's a matter of life and death!"  Granddaughter has worked at a large nursing home facility for almost three years.  They are losing close to two dozen employees.  So, they are not filling vacancies in the short term.  She says the administration has a number of rooms they need empty for the shorter staff to accommodate.  Then, as more vaccinated nurses come on staff, more rooms can be opened.
> 
> Most states have a minimum number of vaccines required by health care workers.  Hepatitis B, etc.  Some states even require nursing staffs to have the flu vaccine.  No one rebels against those mandates.  The ONLY reason there is reluctance towards the COVID vaccine is the disinformation pushed by a certain political persuasion.


Well said Patch, agree!


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## Patch (Oct 6, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "With these refusers out on the pavement, the company has reached it goal to protect its patients."
> 
> 
> Well then I guess the below statement is false surely because they have reached their goal of nurses, and now there are no longer exhausted nurses, they have plenty of help. I'm sure that's happening everywhere, since its so successful.
> ...


"... droves..." can be a very subjective term if stated with no actual statistics.  Yes, there are nurses leaving the field due to the long hours, verbal and physical threat from patient family members, pressures of working with COVID patients dying daily... needlessly... if they had not paid attention to the anti-vax disinformation.  The OP said nothing about these nurses leaving due to the vaccine mandate.  

I know of no medical facility that has "reached their goal of nurses".  Such a growing field that needs all the personnel they can recruit/train/employ.  Probably why the granddaughter works 40+ hours at a nursing home, two half days at a chiropractor's office, while trying to keep up with her coursework towards her RN certification.  That's why it is almost criminal a small segment of the population is so enamored with those spreading hate and disinformation they influence even our health care workers to stay home rather than use their training to save lives.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 6, 2021)

Patch said:


> "... droves..." can be a very subjective term if stated with no actual statistics.  Yes, there are nurses leaving the field due to the long hours, verbal and physical threat from patient family members, pressures of working with COVID patients dying daily... needlessly... if they had not paid attention to the anti-vax disinformation.  The OP said nothing about these nurses leaving due to the vaccine mandate.
> 
> I know of no medical facility that has "reached their goal of nurses".  Such a growing field that needs all the personnel they can recruit/train/employ.  Probably why the granddaughter works 40+ hours at a nursing home, two half days at a chiropractor's office, while trying to keep up with her coursework towards her RN certification.  That's why it is almost criminal a small segment of the population is so enamored with those spreading hate and disinformation they influence even our health care workers to stay home rather than use their training to save lives.


 Thank you for speaking truthfully about COVID-19 and its effect on the dying patients and dedicated health care workers.  Bless your granddaughter, I thank her and wish her the best.  Hoping people will get smart and this deadly pandemic will subside in the near future. The hate, disinformation and deadly lies have got to stop for all concerned.


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## Ladybj (Oct 6, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> Here we have Drs & nurses leaving the hospitals because they "KNOW' that the vaccine is not good for their bodies.  This has been investigated so much here that when a person dies of a heart attack, stroke in old age it's counted as a Conav-19 death.
> 
> They have finally come out & said only 1% of the deaths in this state are from Conav-19. & 50% are the vaccinated ones. They didn't want this to get out because they like the scare tactics that the unvaccinated people are the cause of all the deaths.    Well, they got caught red-handed & now have to change the way everything is reported to the CDC.


ON POINT!!!!!!!!!!!  If "they" can come out with a vaccine within a year,  why can't they come up with a cure for Cancer and other diseases??? Just trying to understand.


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## win231 (Oct 6, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> ON POINT!!!!!!!!!!!  If "they" can come out with a vaccine within a year,  why can't they come up with a cure for Cancer and other diseases??? Just trying to understand.


A cure for cancer & other diseases won't fix the economy; it would hurt the economy.
A "Miracle" vaccine will - provided enough fear can be generated to make people think it's safe & effective.


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## Patch (Oct 6, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> ON POINT!!!!!!!!!!!  If "they" can come out with a vaccine within a year,  why can't they come up with a cure for Cancer and other diseases??? Just trying to understand.


There is a huge difference between a virus and a cancer.  Polio... small pox... hepatitis... measles... flu...  All a virus.  The virus can be killed with a vaccine.  Laboratory testing with live virus can lead to the correct anti-viral "potion" that works for the specific virus.  Cancer is not a virus.  Most virus species can be transmitted from person to person via aerosol... and even humans to animals.  Cancers are not communicable because they are not a live virus.  
We've seen huge strides in cancer research.  My mother fought breast cancer for 10 years and passed from it in 1986.  Has she been fighting that same cancer today, there is a much better chance she could have survived it.  Prostate cancer... not nearly as fatal as it was 10 years ago.  A good friend was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer 11 years ago.  After going through what then was an experimental treatment, he is cancer free.  

Why can't we get orange juice from lettuce leaves?  One is a fruit and the other a vegetable.  That's not a very good analogy, but the difference between a virus and a cancer is as unique as the difference between fruit and bologna.


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## Ladybj (Oct 6, 2021)

Patch said:


> There is a huge difference between a virus and a cancer.  Polio... small pox... hepatitis... measles... flu...  All a virus.  The virus can be killed with a vaccine.  Laboratory testing with live virus can lead to the correct anti-viral "potion" that works for the specific virus.  Cancer is not a virus.  Most virus species can be transmitted from person to person via aerosol... and even humans to animals.  Cancers are not communicable because they are not a live virus.
> We've seen huge strides in cancer research.  My mother fought breast cancer for 10 years and passed from it in 1986.  Has she been fighting that same cancer today, there is a much better chance she could have survived it.  Prostate cancer... not nearly as fatal as it was 10 years ago.  A good friend was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer 11 years ago.  After going through what then was an experimental treatment, he is cancer free.
> 
> Why can't we get orange juice from lettuce leaves?  One is a fruit and the other a vegetable.  That's not a very good analogy, but the difference between a virus and a cancer is as unique as the difference between fruit and bologna.


I am a think outside the box type of person. I stick by my statement.  I also have lost loved ones to Cancer.


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## Patch (Oct 6, 2021)

win231 said:


> A cure for cancer & other diseases won't fix the economy; it would hurt the economy.
> A "Miracle" vaccine will - provided enough fear can be generated to make people think it's safe & effective.


The conspiracy theory has been around for decades.  "The pharmaceutical industry won't allow the 'cure' for cancer to be released because of all the money they make treating it."  

Tell me, what is a "cure" going to do?  The lungs are already damaged before lung cancer is diagnosed.  Breast cancer... colon cancer... bone cancer... By the time these cancers are diagnosed, the body has been decimated by the mere presence of it.  
Vaccines are for virus PREVENTION!  Being vaccinated against a virus is a protection either against contracting the virus or, if you do contract it, the illness is much less severe.  To do damage to the billions pharmaceutical companies rake in from cancer treatment would not be reduced by a "cure".  Patients would still need treated with that "cure" and affected body parts reconstructed or replaced.  

To eradicate cancer one would need a preventative like a vaccine is to a virus.  Some cancers are caused by carcinogens.  Some by UV light.  Some by radiation.  What can be done by the pharmaceutical industry to shield a human body from so many unrelated causes of cancer?  That challenge is what cancer research centers across the globe are struggling with.


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## Ladybj (Oct 6, 2021)

Patch said:


> The conspiracy theory has been around for decades.  "The pharmaceutical industry won't allow the 'cure' for cancer to be released because of all the money they make treating it."
> 
> Tell me, what is a "cure" going to do?  The lungs are already damaged before lung cancer is diagnosed.  Breast cancer... colon cancer... bone cancer... By the time these cancers are diagnosed, the body has been decimated by the mere presence of it.
> Vaccines are for virus PREVENTION!  Being vaccinated against a virus is a protection either against contracting the virus or, if you do contract it, the illness is much less severe.  To do damage to the billions pharmaceutical companies rake in from cancer treatment would not be reduced by a "cure".  Patients would still need treated with that "cure" and affected body parts reconstructed or replaced.
> ...


I agree with you on that - The pharmaceutical industry won't allow the "cure" to be released because of all the money they make treating it.  I heard that sometimes if you do not treat Cancer - you have a better chance of not dying from it.   You made some good points!!


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## Ladybj (Oct 6, 2021)

Patch said:


> The conspiracy theory has been around for decades.  "The pharmaceutical industry won't allow the 'cure' for cancer to be released because of all the money they make treating it."
> 
> Tell me, what is a "cure" going to do?  The lungs are already damaged before lung cancer is diagnosed.  Breast cancer... colon cancer... bone cancer... By the time these cancers are diagnosed, the body has been decimated by the mere presence of it.
> Vaccines are for virus PREVENTION!  Being vaccinated against a virus is a protection either against contracting the virus or, if you do contract it, the illness is much less severe.  To do damage to the billions pharmaceutical companies rake in from cancer treatment would not be reduced by a "cure".  Patients would still need treated with that "cure" and affected body parts reconstructed or replaced.
> ...


Therefore would you say treatment for Cancer is a waste of time and money????


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## Butterfly (Oct 7, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> No, I was Talking to the Drs & nurses myself.  They are the ones telling me all this.  Amazing how much FASE info is out there.  I go to the source to get my information.   Course there are a lot on TV that are not Drs but politicians spreading fear-mongering.
> 
> This Pandemic is making drug manufactures extremely rich.  Also making the government happy as they can *CONTROL people *like Nazis did back in WWII
> Are you ready for the next phase?  That's a death march/ride to Auschwitz.


What state are you in?

This is certainly different from what the nurses and doctors are saying where I live.


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## Buckeye (Oct 7, 2021)

I see a time in the near future when Medicare/Medicaid benefits will not be available to the anti-vaxx folks. But go ahead and keep your freedumb.


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## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> Therefore would you say treatment for Cancer is a waste of time and money????


NO!!!


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## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> ON POINT!!!!!!!!!!!  If "they" can come out with a vaccine within a year,  why can't they come up with a cure for Cancer and other diseases??? Just trying to understand.


I can answer that:
 Cancer is  not a single disease, but a group of diseases.  There are more than 100 different types of cancers. Cancers are also caused by different things, so no one strategy can prevent them.


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## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

Tom 86:  with over 14, 200 death in Lafayette, doctors will have no conversation about not having the vaccine, do I believe you? No!


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> You may think you have the right to make others' health decisions for them.  You are mistaken.
> You have the right to program yourself; not others.


He's not making other people's decisions.  He is urging and offering sound and sensible advice.  If only those who selfishly refuse the vaccine were the only ones to get sick or die and be affected....then other Americans wouldn't care so much. 

They affect everyone else in this country, they are overflowing the hospitals and affecting the medical staff there and the other patients like Al who are getting delayed care in hospitals.  Don't be so paranoid and believe all the disinformation and conspiracies, it's not healthy for you or anyone else, especially when you spread the lies around publicly.

The majority of hospitalized and dead people are those who have/had not been vaccinated!


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 7, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> What state are you in?
> 
> This is certainly different from what the nurses and doctors are saying where I live.


Same where I live and across the United States.  Must be a confused state.


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## Sunny (Oct 7, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> No, I was Talking to the Drs & nurses myself.  They are the ones telling me all this.  Amazing how much FASE info is out there.  I go to the source to get my information.   Course there are a lot on TV that are not Drs but politicians spreading fear-mongering.
> 
> This Pandemic is making drug manufactures extremely rich.  Also making the government happy as they can *CONTROL people *like Nazis did back in WWII
> Are you ready for the next phase?  That's a death march/ride to Auschwitz.



Sorry, Tom, but I do not believe for a second that any legitimate doctor or nurse would tell you such nonsense.  I think you hear what you want to hear, and make up the rest.  

If you really have made yourself believe that only 1% of the deaths in your state are due to Covid, and 50% of those who died were vaccinated, I'd be very curious to know what state (in fact, what planet) you are living in. No 10-year-old with normal intelligence would believe that.


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## Irwin (Oct 7, 2021)

Disinformation is causing unstable people to go over the edge. I saw this in my news feed this morning...

A Maryland man accused of killing his pharmacist brother, his sister-in-law and an 83-year-old woman told his mother he wanted to "confront" his brother over "him administering COVID vaccines."
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/07/us/maryland-pharmacist-brother-murder-charge/index.html


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## Don M. (Oct 7, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> I see a time in the near future when Medicare/Medicaid benefits will not be available to the anti-vaxx folks. But go ahead and keep your freedumb.


That, plus I expect to see some soaring costs for virtually all health insurance.  The billions being spent on treating Covid patients will eventually show up in everyone's medical insurance costs.


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## win231 (Oct 7, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> He's not making other people's decisions.  He is urging and offering sound and sensible advice.  If only those who selfishly refuse the vaccine were the only ones to get sick or die and be affected....then other Americans wouldn't care so much.
> 
> They affect everyone else in this country, they are overflowing the hospitals and affecting the medical staff there and the other patients like Al who are getting delayed care in hospitals.  Don't be so paranoid and believe all the disinformation and conspiracies, it's not healthy for you or anyone else, especially when you spread the lies around publicly.
> 
> The majority of hospitalized and dead people are those who have/had not been vaccinated!


^^^ A poster child for a programmed robot.


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## Patch (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> Therefore would you say treatment for Cancer is a waste of time and money????


Of course not!  We have one of the leading cancer research centers right in our community.  As I said, great strides have been made in the past decade on the treatment of certain cancers.  What I took exception to was the premise that if a vaccine would work for COVID... or any virus... why couldn't they, that easily, cure cancer.  Apples and oranges.


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## Patch (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> Therefore would you say treatment for Cancer is a waste of time and money????


Also... cancer treatment is, and should be, up to the individual and their oncologist.  I have close friends who have undergone treatment and are cancer free.  OTOH, just had an acquaintances mother-in-law pass from breast cancer.  In May she was diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer and told she had only months to live even with chemo and radiation.  Her oncologist said the treatments would give her, maybe, a few more weeks of life.  But, the quality of her life would be quite compromised by the treatments and the state of the cancer when diagnosed.  She chose to have quality over quantity.  I believe every person diagnosed with cancers needs to assess their condition, age, potential treatment adverse effects, family, etc., etc.  No one person's situation is going to mirror another's exactly.


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## Giants fan1954 (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> ON POINT!!!!!!!!!!!  If "they" can come out with a vaccine within a year,  why can't they come up with a cure for Cancer and other diseases??? Just trying to understand.


They make to much money treating it!


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## Becky1951 (Oct 7, 2021)

Patch said:


> "... droves..." can be a very subjective term if stated with no actual statistics.  Yes, there are nurses leaving the field due to the long hours, verbal and physical threat from patient family members, pressures of working with COVID patients dying daily... needlessly... if they had not paid attention to the anti-vax disinformation.  The OP said nothing about these nurses leaving due to the vaccine mandate.
> 
> I know of no medical facility that has "reached their goal of nurses".  Such a growing field that needs all the personnel they can recruit/train/employ.  Probably why the granddaughter works 40+ hours at a nursing home, two half days at a chiropractor's office, while trying to keep up with her coursework towards her RN certification.  That's why it is almost criminal a small segment of the population is so enamored with those spreading hate and disinformation they influence even our health care workers to stay home rather than use their training to save lives.


"droves..." can be a very subjective term if stated with no actual statistics"

"I know of no medical facility that has "reached their goal of nurses".

Regarding those 2 statements, I never said anything about "droves" or that medical facilities had reached their goals. I was replying to another persons comments.   I agree about your statements on both of the above.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> ^^^ A poster child for a programmed robot.


Wrong again win, a sane thinking American adult.  You got nothing but your weak juvenile insults, sad for you.


----------



## Tom 86 (Oct 7, 2021)




----------



## Ladybj (Oct 7, 2021)

Shero said:


> I can answer that:
> Cancer is  not a single disease, but a group of diseases.  There are more than 100 different types of cancers. Cancers are also caused by different things, so no one strategy can prevent them.


And how many viruses are out there???? I doubt if the vaccines they currently have will be the answer.. I guess that's why the booster shots are coming soon. As I always say, people do what is best for them.


----------



## Ladybj (Oct 7, 2021)

Patch said:


> Also... cancer treatment is, and should be, up to the individual and their oncologist.  I have close friends who have undergone treatment and are cancer free.  OTOH, just had an acquaintances mother-in-law pass from breast cancer.  In May she was diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer and told she had only months to live even with chemo and radiation.  Her oncologist said the treatments would give her, maybe, a few more weeks of life.  But, the quality of her life would be quite compromised by the treatments and the state of the cancer when diagnosed.  She chose to have quality over quantity.  I believe every person diagnosed with cancers needs to assess their condition, age, potential treatment adverse effects, family, etc., etc.  No one person's situation is going to mirror another's exactly.


And your last statement is how people feel about the c-vaccines..  "No one person's situation is going to mirror anothers's exactly". ON POINT!!!  Some people have been told not to take the vaccine due to various reasons.  Sadly we do no hear of the people that are having horrible side effects.


----------



## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

Giants fan1954 said:


> They make to much money treating it!


If they can save my life, then they can make a mountain of money, I do not begrudge that.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> They are also leaving due to being forced to choose between a job that they have done commendably daily all through this pandemic but that doesn't matter does it? Just getting vaccinated is all that matters.   S


Forced mandate is important because patients who don't have Covid can get it from a medical worker who is not vaccinated. I have cancer, and do everything possible to avoid getting Covid. It made me really angry to find out a  nurse I saw frequently when I underwent radiation therapy was not vaccinated. In fact, almost 30,000 people employed by University of Pittsburgh Medical Center are not vaccinated. This is out of 93,000 employees.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> You may think you have the right to make others' health decisions for them.  You are mistaken.
> You have the right to program yourself; not others.


This is a serious public health issue, Win. *The people who are not vaccinated are risking themselves, their families, their friends, and their communities.*

My ex-husband is in terrible pain from having acquired Covid from someone at the nursing home where he was undergoing rehab. He was infected with Covid a week after he got out of quarantine. The home required him to be quarantined for two weeks because he thinks Covid is a hoax and/or God will protect him, and/or Covid is a minor illness, like a cold.

I begged him to just get vaccinated and explained how he is at higher risk because of his age (77), his diabetes, his being about 100 lbs overweight, and his being in a nursing home.

Just to make it clear, Win, so you don't leap to an erroneous conclusion,  my ex is barely able to talk, and has had only one very brief conversation with one of his daughters in the last 10 days. All of his family (including me and my kids) have decided unanimously, without discussion, not to mention anything about him not having been vaccinated. We all love him, and dearly want him to recover without the complications of long Covid..


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> ^^^ A poster child for a programmed robot.


I do wish you'd stop with the robot thing. Have you considered, Win, that you may be the programmed robot?


----------



## win231 (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> I do wish you'd stop with the robot thing. Have you considered, Win, that you may be the programmed robot?


Nobody gets everything they want.   People who repeat everything they hear are programmed robots.


WheatenLover said:


> This is a serious public health issue, Win. *The people who are not vaccinated are risking themselves, their families, their friends, and their communities.*
> 
> My ex-husband is in terrible pain from having acquired Covid from someone at the nursing home where he was undergoing rehab. He was infected with Covid a week after he got out of quarantine. The home required him to be quarantined for two weeks because he thinks Covid is a hoax and/or God will protect him, and/or Covid is a minor illness, like a cold.
> 
> ...


1.  I never said (or even thought) Covid is a hoax.

2.  Many high-risk people who are elderly or have serious health issues can become quite ill & die from Covid, just as they can from the flu or other illness they are too weak to recover from.
Two days ago, I lost a friend who was only 66.  He had other health issues & got a flu shot a few months ago_ on the advice of his doctor._  After he was hospitalized, his doctor said,_ "No more shots for you - for ANYTHING."_
Ever since, he's been in & out of the hospital with breathing problems - until he died.

3.  People who are not vaccinated are not risking anyone - just as people who don't get a flu shot are not risking anyone.  If you really thought a vaccine protected you, you would already know that.  You have fallen prey to_ "Guilt Advertising," another form of  Programming._


----------



## Becky1951 (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Forced mandate is important because patients who don't have Covid can get it from a medical worker who is not vaccinated. I have cancer, and do everything possible to avoid getting Covid. It made me really angry to find out a  nurse I saw frequently when I underwent radiation therapy was not vaccinated. In fact, almost 30,000 people employed by University of Pittsburgh Medical Center are not vaccinated. This is out of 93,000 employees.


"Forced mandate is important because patients who don't have Covid can get it from a medical worker who is not vaccinated."

They can also get it from a vaccinated medical person who is asymptomatic.


----------



## Ladybj (Oct 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> Nobody gets everything they want.   People who repeat everything they hear are programmed robots.
> 
> 1.  I never said (or even thought) Covid is a hoax.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your friend Win.  I already know I AM NOT a candidate for C-vaccine, nor the flu vaccine.  One size does not fit all.


----------



## win231 (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Forced mandate is important because patients who don't have Covid can get it from a medical worker who is not vaccinated. I have cancer, and do everything possible to avoid getting Covid. It made me really angry to find out a  nurse I saw frequently when I underwent radiation therapy was not vaccinated. In fact, almost 30,000 people employed by University of Pittsburgh Medical Center are not vaccinated. This is out of 93,000 employees.


Since you're vaccinated, and you believe the vaccine protects you, you shouldn't be concerned about the unvaccinated.
_The fact that you *are* concerned shows you have no confidence in the vaccine._
Since that's the case, why are you trying so hard to sell others on a vaccine you have no confidence in, yourself?


----------



## win231 (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> Sorry to hear about your friend Win.  I already know I AM NOT a candidate for C-vaccine, nor the flu vaccine.  One size does not fit all.


Neither was he.  BUT his doctor should have known that, instead of just pushing the vaccine on everyone - like most doctors are trained to do.


----------



## Ladybj (Oct 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> Neither was he.  BUT his doctor should have known that, instead of just pushing the vaccine on everyone - like most doctors are trained to do.


I agree 101%.  They also have vaccinated people advocating for the vaccine...  If I was able to take the vaccine - I wouldn't because its being pushed TOO HARD!!!!!!   Make you think - W T$#$@#


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> Since you're vaccinated, and you believe the vaccine protects you, you shouldn't be concerned about the unvaccinated.
> _The fact that you *are* concerned shows you have no confidence in the vaccine._
> Since that's the case, why are you trying so hard to sell others on a vaccine you have no confidence in, yourself?


Win, settle down please. We all know that some people are contracting the Delta variant, despite being vaccinated. I know two elderly people who have Covid now, despite being vaccinated. Thank goodness theirs are very mild cases.

I am concerned about the unvaccinated for the sake of all of our families, friends, and communities, along with myself of course. Unless a vaccine has eradicated a disease, I figure none of them are 100% anyway. My own chances of living if I decided to not care about the other people involved (family, friends, community) and to not be vaccinated, are near zero.

BTW, you are leaping to erroneous conclusions again. I have lots of confidence in myself. I am confident that I made the right decision in being vaccinated. So is my oncologist.


----------



## Becky1951 (Oct 7, 2021)

Ladybj said:


> I agree 101%.  They also have vaccinated people advocating for the vaccine...  If I was able to take the vaccine - I wouldn't because its being pushed TOO HARD!!!!!!   Make you think - W T$#$@#


Exactly! All that pushing, daily news articles, tv, promoting get the vaccine, stupid incentives, I don't recall any incentives to get the flu shot or any other vaccine.  Oh wait, I just told a big fat lie!  I remember when I was little our family Dr showing me a nice big sucker and telling me as soon as I got my shot that sucker was mine!   

Now the vaccine mandate and even more are refusing to get it. Just to much push push and a whole lot of BS.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Win, settle down please. We all know that some people are contracting the Delta variant, despite being vaccinated. I know two elderly people who have Covid now, despite being vaccinated. Thank goodness theirs are very mild cases.
> 
> I am concerned about the unvaccinated for the sake of all of our families, friends, and communities, along with myself of course. Unless a vaccine has eradicated a disease, I figure none of them are 100% anyway. My own chances of living if I decided to not care about the other people involved (family, friends, community) and to not be vaccinated, are near zero.
> 
> BTW, you are leaping to erroneous conclusions again. I have lots of confidence in myself. I am confident that I made the right decision in being vaccinated. So is my oncologist.


Everything you said is truthful and reasonable.  Some people have their minds set and won't listen to facts and logic, that's a big problem.  If mandates get more people vaccinated, then that's the way to go right now.  This is serious, no time to play games.


----------



## win231 (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Win, settle down please. We all know that some people are contracting the Delta variant, despite being vaccinated. I know two elderly people who have Covid now, despite being vaccinated. Thank goodness theirs are very mild cases.
> 
> I am concerned about the unvaccinated for the sake of all of our families, friends, and communities, along with myself of course. Unless a vaccine has eradicated a disease, I figure none of them are 100% anyway. My own chances of living if I decided to not care about the other people involved (family, friends, community) and to not be vaccinated, are near zero.
> 
> BTW, you are leaping to erroneous conclusions again. I have lots of confidence in myself. I am confident that I made the right decision in being vaccinated. So is my oncologist.


"Settle down?"      Obviously, it's YOU who needs to settle down.
I'm happy you are confident you made the right decision to be vaccinated.  I NEVER criticize anyone for their decision to be vaccinated....._UNLESS they insult others who don't make the same decision they made. _ That says a lot about the type of person they are AND how little confidence they have in the vaccine.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> Nobody gets everything they want.   People who repeat everything they hear are programmed robots.
> 
> 1.  I never said (or even thought) Covid is a hoax.
> 
> ...


Win, I am sorry your friend died. 

1.  I never said that you thought Covid is a hoax. I didn't imply it either.

2. I have not fallen prey to anything except a rational mind.

3. I completely disagree with you on this point. Covid has already killed over 700,000 people in the US.


----------



## Shero (Oct 7, 2021)

Soon there will be “no room at the inn” no entry to hotels, restaurants, pubs, concerts, travel unless vaccinated. 

So better paint your walls a nice color for you will be looking at them a lot !!!!


----------



## win231 (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Win, I am sorry your friend died.
> 
> 1.  I never said that you thought Covid is a hoax. I didn't imply it either.
> 
> ...


#3 - We're back to that Programming thing & believing everything we're told.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> #3 - We're back to that Programming thing & believing everything we're told.


So how do figure out what to believe? What are your main sources?


----------



## win231 (Oct 7, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> So how do figure out what to believe? What are your main sources?


There is really no way to know how many have actually died of Covid.  But we do know they are listing causes of death that had nothing to do with Covid.  We also know that we can't expect much honesty when billions of dollars are at stake.


----------



## WheatenLover (Oct 7, 2021)

win231 said:


> There is really no way to know how many have actually died of Covid.  But we do know they are listing causes of death that had nothing to do with Covid.  We also know that we can't expect much honesty when billions of dollars are at stake.


Okay, but that doesn't answer my question.


----------



## win231 (Oct 8, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Okay, but that doesn't answer my question.


The British Medical Journal, Lancet, says:



> In the first case series of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 from Wuhan, published on Jan 24, underlying comorbidities were reported in 50% of patients (diabetes [20%], hypertension [15%], and cardiovascular disease [15%]). Subsequently, data from 122 653 laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 cases reported to CDC in the USA between Feb 12 and March 28, showed that approximately one third of patients had at least one underlying condition or risk factor, of which diabetes was the most frequently reported (in 10.9% of cases). Moreover, 78% of intensive care unit (ICU) admissions and 94% of deaths (where complete information on underlying conditions or risk factors was available) occurred in those with at least one underlying health condition. More recently, the first report characterising glycaemic control among patients hospitalized with COVID-19 in the USA (1122 patients admitted to 88 US hospitals between March 1 and April 6) showed that approximately 40% had diabetes or uncontrolled hyperglycaemia on admission, and death rates were more than four times higher among those with diabetes or hyperglycaemia (28.8%) than those without either condition (6.2%). From the available evidence, diabetes (or more broadly poor glycaemic control) is clearly one of the most important comorbidities linked to COVID-19 severity and outcomes.









So, it can be argued that the 94% of the people who had 2 or more underlying medical conditions would have been just fine, if they had not been exposed to Coronavirus. But of course, we don't know if these people would have live one day, one week, one month or one year longer if they had not contracted COVID.
On the other hand, it is also possible that many of these people were not long for this world regardless, and may have been done in by the flu, pneumonia or something else.
It is speculation either way. It's curious how the mass media will only accept the speculation that makes COVID appear worse... and none that downplays the risks. That's not science, that's politics...

If you think this is just EHSO being a Doubting Thomas, Florida Gov. went on Fox & Friends (mid September 2020) and complained that reports of his state's COVID-19 deaths were greatly exaggerated. He used as an example a person from Orlando who had died in a motorcycle crash. DeSantis said the death"was categorized as a COVID death just because the person had previously tested positive (for COVID). We've had other incidents in which there's no real relationship, and it's been counted. So, we want to look at that and see how pervasive that issue is as well."
In this one case, the local CBS affiliate followed up on this report : The medical examiner responded that, following the motorcycle crash, "the person was subsequently hospitalized for a long period of time, got pneumonia. It happened to be COVID pneumonia, and they died.... In that case, we did [attribute] it to COVID pneumonia."

And other cases reported that no tests for COVID were performed, the doctor or medical examined simply assigned the death to Coronavirus based on a "presumption". In other words, "I'm busy, call it COVID!"

There are many questions yet to be objectively answered:


What role and to what extent did the flu play in these reported coronavirus deaths?
Same for pneumonia and other diseases
How serious were the "2+ comorbidities" in the people who were reported dying from COVID?
What was the expected life expectancy of the people who were reported as dying from COVID, had they not had COVID?
Are there any incentives or motivations (monetary, political, etc( for hospitals, medical examiners, etc. to code a death as a COVID fatality?
Another example is Colorado
The Grand County, Colorado coroner Brenda Bock says of the 5 deaths attributed to COVID-19, 2 were actually people who died from gunshot wounds. We have found almost innumerable similar examples in other states, easily verified. Google it.

*A premium paid to hospitals for calling a death "due to Coronavirus"?
While some states, like Minnesota and California, list only laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 diagnoses as COVID-19 deaths, other states, like New York, list all "presumed" cases, which is allowed under guidelines from Dr. Birx and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. They do not require a lab test, coding deaths based on presumptions and suspicions.. Why? The coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for COVID-19 Medicare patients.

Sen. Scott Jensen, R-Minnesota, who is also a physician in Minnesota, said on Laura Ingraham Angle on April 8, 2020 that hospitals get paid more if Medicare patients are listed as having COVID-19 and get 3X times as much money if the patient needs a ventilator.

Dr. Jensen said, "Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for - if they're Medicare - typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."

Obviously, hospital administrators can pressure physicians to call deaths "probable" COVID-19, on discharge papers or death certificates to get the higher Medicare allocation allowed under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act.

Is this just a conspiracy theory?
Apparently not, even Snopes said it's plausible Medicare pays these fees, PolitiFact wrote, "The dollar amounts Jensen cited are roughly what we found in an analysis published April 7 by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a leading source of health information." and Ask FactCheck said "The figures cited by Jensen generally square with estimated Medicare payments for COVID-19 hospitalizations, based on average Medicare payments for patients with similar diagnoses."*

Conclusion​​Are the deaths being exaggerated? Since we don't have all the facts and access to the raw data, we simply CANNOT yet know. Time will tell. But the evidence is mounting that the system creates plenty incentive for hospital administrators to inflate the COVID-19 fatalities. Ask yourself; based on your lifetime of experience, would YOU trust a hospital administrator to be truthful when he can profit from not?


http://www.ehso.com/Coronavirus-Exaggerated-Fatalities.php

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-it-s-complicated


----------



## win231 (Oct 8, 2021)

Shero said:


> Soon there will be “no room at the inn” no entry to hotels, restaurants, pubs, concerts, travel unless vaccinated.
> 
> So better paint your walls a nice color for you will be looking at them a lot !!!!


I hate traveling.
I have no use for hotels or Inns.
I rarely eat in restaurants (I've had enough food poisoning from restaurants, thank you)  Even riskier now because they're cutting costs, taking food safety shortcuts, & hiring inexperienced staff.
Pubs?  Bars?  I have no use for them.
Last concert I attended was in 1972 - Emerson, Lake & Palmer.


----------



## Tish (Oct 8, 2021)

How tragic and heartbreaking.


----------



## Buckeye (Oct 8, 2021)

94.7% of us seniors (65 and older) have at least one jab.  That's approx 57 million of us. And  for the younger folks, even the high school drop outs, who had the lowest vaccination rate, are finally getting vaxxed at a significant rate. Still behind the  educated folks, but are slowly catching up.  Soon, at some point getting the vaccination will be a part of every child's life.  More and more companies are requiring vaccination as a condition of employment. And, since the unvaxxed are much more likely to require hospitalization and much more likely to die from covid, over time Mother Nature and Darwin will work this out.


----------



## Tom 86 (Oct 8, 2021)

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/fi...7exRWJG8lKpdN3-vcq6FajztgWj1Htafro0Dwf66SqS1o


----------



## Shero (Oct 8, 2021)

win231 said:


> I hate traveling.
> I have no use for hotels or Inns.
> I rarely eat in restaurants (I've had enough food poisoning from restaurants, thank you)  Even riskier now because they're cutting costs, taking food safety shortcuts, & hiring inexperienced staff.
> Pubs?  Bars?  I have no use for them.
> Last concert I attended was in 1972 - Emerson, Lake & Palmer.


Maybe you have use for food win? soon the markets, banks, all commercial places will be cutting you out!


----------



## win231 (Oct 8, 2021)

Shero said:


> Maybe you have use for food win? soon the markets, banks, all commercial places will be cutting you out!


Wishful thinking, but you're mistaken.
Vaccine proof was recently approved for bars & clubs & outdoor events that have over 10,000 people.
Markets were specifically excluded.
And, without vaccine proof, a negative Covid test is OK.  If I really wanted to go to those other places, a nose swab is silly, but fine with me.  And those tests are free.


----------



## Irwin (Oct 8, 2021)

Anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers are getting as bad as abortion protesters
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/...ndate-protest-parents-students-newday-vpx.cnn


----------



## Becky1951 (Oct 8, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> 94.7% of us seniors (65 and older) have at least one jab.  That's approx 57 million of us. And  for the younger folks, even the high school drop outs, who had the lowest vaccination rate, are finally getting vaxxed at a significant rate. Still behind the  educated folks, but are slowly catching up.  Soon, at some point getting the vaccination will be a part of every child's life.  More and more companies are requiring vaccination as a condition of employment. And, since the unvaxxed are much more likely to require hospitalization and much more likely to die from covid, over time Mother Nature and Darwin will work this out.


"even the high school drop outs, who had the lowest vaccination rate, are finally getting vaxxed at a significant rate. Still behind the  educated folks,"

Wow I didn't realize that when a person gets vaccinated they had to show proof of their education level, because that's the only way any agency would have* correct data* to know the numbers of educated vs uneducated.


----------



## Becky1951 (Oct 8, 2021)

win231 said:


> Wishful thinking, but you're mistaken.
> Vaccine proof was recently approved for bars & clubs & outdoor events that have over 10,000 people.
> Markets were specifically excluded.
> And, without vaccine proof, a negative Covid test is OK.  If I really wanted to go to those other places, a nose swab is silly, but fine with me.  And those tests are free.


I'm still trying to figure out how when a person orders most everything online and does their banking online, how are they soon going to be cut out????


----------



## win231 (Oct 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "even the high school drop outs, who had the lowest vaccination rate, are finally getting vaxxed at a significant rate. Still behind the  educated folks,"
> 
> Wow I didn't realize that when a person gets vaccinated they had to show proof of their education level, because that's the only way any agency would have* correct data* to know the numbers of educated vs uneducated.


We can only dream of some day being as educated as some here.


----------



## Packerjohn (Oct 8, 2021)

About 2,000 years ago they told Joseph and Mary that there was "no room at the inn."  Two thousand years later we are being told that "there is no room in the hospital."  Hmmm!  Some things just don't change.  Perhaps we need to start building stables?


----------



## Buckeye (Oct 8, 2021)

win231 said:


> We can only dream of some day being as educated as some here.


Well, you finally made a statement I can agree with.


----------



## mellowyellow (Oct 8, 2021)

It took a long time, but NSW has finally reached 70 per cent fully vaxxed and when we reach 80 per cent (very soon) things will be even better. Soon we will be able to fly to America for a holiday but not the Gold Coast in the state of Queensland because their Premier took a different strategy. She currently has zero cases of covid and is still defiantly shutting the border to the rest of the country. Needless to say, as the holiday state and with the holiday season approaching, many business owners are furious while others are going, or have already gone, broke.

So hey, from next Monday, the 11 October 2021, eased restrictions will allow those who are fully vaccinated to have:


10-visitor limit in your home
access Gyms, indoor recreation and sporting facilities
group bookings of up to 20 people in hospitality settings.
It's up to the restaurant owner to check your double vaxxed app at the door, if no certification, no entry.


----------



## Buckeye (Oct 8, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> "even the high school drop outs, who had the lowest vaccination rate, are finally getting vaxxed at a significant rate. Still behind the  educated folks,"
> 
> Wow I didn't realize that when a person gets vaccinated they had to show proof of their education level, because that's the only way any agency would have* correct data* to know the numbers of educated vs uneducated.


lol - maybe you should talk to these folks.  

Vaccination rates by education level


----------



## Becky1951 (Oct 8, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> lol - maybe you should talk to these folks.
> 
> Vaccination rates by education level


LOL maybe you should read what "these folks" wrote.

To begin with this "survey" had a low response of participants so those percentage numbers sound real good until you realize the small number of responses

And then there is this.

*"Notes about the Household Pulse Survey Data*
The estimated rates presented in this post were pulled from the HPS COVID-19 Vaccination Tracker published by the Census Bureau. *Though these counts are accompanied by standard errors, standard errors are not able to be accurately calculated for rate estimates.* *Therefore, we are not able to determine if the differences we found in our analysis are statistically significant or if the estimates themselves are statistically reliable. *Estimates and differences for subpopulations at the state level should be assumed to have large confidence intervals around them and caution should be taken when drawing strong conclusions from this analysis. However, the fact that these indications of COVID-19 inequities mirror patterns of other vaccinations inequities demonstrate reason for concern.

Though produced by the U.S. Census Bureau, the HPS is considered an *“experimental” survey and does not necessarily meet the Census Bureau’s high standards for data quality and statistical reliability. For example, the survey has relatively low response rates (6.4% for June 9-21), and sampled individuals are contacted via email and text message, asking them to complete an internet-based survey. *These issues in particular could be potential sources of bias, but come with the tradeoffs of increased speed and flexibility in data collection as well as lower costs. A future post will investigate differences between COVID-19 vaccination rates estimated from survey data (such as the HPS) and administrative sources. The estimates presented this post are based on responses from 68,067 adults. More information about the data and methods for the Household Pulse Survey can be found in a previous SHADAC blog post."


----------



## terry123 (Oct 9, 2021)

Two weeks ago I had an accident at home and required xrays.  I called 911 and as they loaded me into the ambulance they were checking with Hospitals to see where they could take me.  I wanted to go to Clear Lake Regional Medical Center as I have been there before.  Their ER was filled so they took me to Methodist Clear Lake as they had room in the ER  for me.  The two EMT"s told me they were having it rough finding Hospitals to take patients due to the number of Covid patients in the Hospitals in my area.


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## Buckeye (Oct 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> LOL maybe you should read what "these folks" wrote.
> 
> To begin with this "survey" had a low response of participants so those percentage numbers sound real good until you realize the small number of responses
> 
> ...


I read all that and it does not disprove the results. Also, a number of other studies have shown the same thing.  Use your googleizer to search "education levels and vaccination rates".  The one I linked to was just the first one on the list.

I do have to wonder why this information bothers you so much.


----------



## Sunny (Oct 9, 2021)

It's pretty obvious why, Buckeye. Nothing like being backed into an increasingly smaller corner of denial, false information, and total nonsense to make a person get bothered.  

They're bothered because deep down they know the surveys are telling us the truth. They just don't like the results. Sort of like loudly disputing election results, even if the election was fair.

The anti-vaxxers may actually get away with it, riding on the coattails of those who did use basic sanity and got the vaccine, as we may be nearing herd immunity. (Unless a new, even worse variant comes along.)

But how tragic for those with other life-threatening illnesses who can't get into the hospital because a bunch of stubborn ignoramuses are taking up all the beds. All this to avoid a couple of harmless little shots.


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## Don M. (Oct 9, 2021)

Sunny said:


> But how tragic for those with other life-threatening illnesses who can't get into the hospital because a bunch of stubborn ignoramuses are taking up all the beds. All this to avoid a couple of harmless little shots.



One of our granddaughters is a nurse at a smaller rural hospital, and even there the doctors/nurses are working overtime trying to keep up with Covid patients being brought in from larger swamped hospitals.  She said that about the only "elective" treatments that aren't facing delays are in the pediatric ward.


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## win231 (Oct 9, 2021)

Sunny said:


> It's pretty obvious why, Buckeye. Nothing like being backed into an increasingly smaller corner of denial, false information, and total nonsense to make a person get bothered.
> 
> They're bothered because deep down they know the surveys are telling us the truth. They just don't like the results. Sort of like loudly disputing election results, even if the election was fair.
> 
> ...


Ignoramus:  A non-thinking programmed robot with an undersized brain that soaks up everything offered to it.  Example ^^^^


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## Becky1951 (Oct 9, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> I read all that and it does not disprove the results. Also, a number of other studies have shown the same thing.  Use your googleizer to search "education levels and vaccination rates".  The one I linked to was just the first one on the list.
> 
> I do have to wonder why this information bothers you so much.


It didn't prove it either.
What bothers me is assuming a lesser education equates to ignorance.  Which is not always true.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 9, 2021)

Sunny said:


> It's pretty obvious why, Buckeye. Nothing like being backed into an increasingly smaller corner of denial, false information, and total nonsense to make a person get bothered.
> 
> They're bothered because deep down they know the surveys are telling us the truth. They just don't like the results. Sort of like loudly disputing election results, even if the election was fair.
> 
> ...


You really can't help yourself can you? "Ignoramus" your comments always have some name calling included. 

NAME CALLING: HOW TOXIC PEOPLE USE IT AS AN EMOTIONAL WEAPON​
Here are the 4 reasons I discovered why people call other people nasty names:



*#1 – TO DISTRACT FROM THE MAIN ISSUE*​If you don’t have a solid argument to back up your opinions, you might revert to insults in order to throw the other person off their game. Call them a few names and they might get distracted enough to forget what they were talking about and focus on your irrelevant comments instead.



*#2 – TO MAKE THEMSELVES FEEL BETTER*​If you hate yourself and are looking for a quick way to feel better, throw a couple of insults at other people. Typically, in this case, you would throw the sort of insult at them that you feel about yourself.

The problem with this is that while you may get a quick high from insulting someone, you’ll still feel bad about yourself. It only shifts your focus for a little bit and then you’ll be back to hating yourself again.



*#3 – TO LOOK COOL*​Need a quick way to make friends, insult someone else to look cool, fit in, and build camaraderie. The only problem with this one is that you’re building an unhealthy relationship on a very shaky foundation.

And, when you least expect it, someone else could do the same to you.



*#4 – FOR FUN*​Bored? Need some entertainment? Sometimes people call other people names simply because they want something to do or they get pleasure out of the reaction their insults cause. Some people might call this “pushing your buttons.”

_Consider the people who are calling you these names. Are they even worth your time? Probably not._

http://www.groundedgirlsguide.com/toxic-people/2016/10/20/name-calling-emotional-weapon/


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## win231 (Oct 9, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> You really can't help yourself can you? "Ignoramus" your comments always have some name calling included.
> 
> NAME CALLING: HOW TOXIC PEOPLE USE IT AS AN EMOTIONAL WEAPON​
> Here are the 4 reasons I discovered why people call other people nasty names:
> ...


AND ALL put-down artists have low self esteem.  That's the only way they know to raise it.


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## Tom 86 (Oct 10, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Where are you getting this information Tom?  Link to the source please so we all can read it.


No place to read.  It's all about the Drs & nurses that take care of me.  We have good talks when I'm in their offices. Some swear by the vaccine.  Others are saying it's made too fast & has major side effects that they have seen by people like me coming in with major problems.  I've been in Dr's offices about twice a week ever since I was discharged from the hospital With what THEY THOUGHT was Conav-19, but all blood tests & nasal swabs come back negative. 

  My one pulmonary Dr. is telling me in the papers & medical reports he reads that This vaccine was pushed out too fast by the government so the big pharmaceuticals could make big bucks.   He said he is not getting the shots.  He told me if I went google the Pandemic of 1913 & see how long it took them to get over it without any vaccines.  Sure a lot of people died.  Also, look up the polio vaccine timetable. He went on more but I don't want to make this a long post. 

  One thing he's keeping me alive.


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## Buckeye (Oct 10, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> No place to read.  It's all about the Drs & nurses that take care of me.  We have good talks when I'm in their offices. Some swear by the vaccine.  Others are saying it's made too fast & has major side effects that they have seen by people like me coming in with major problems.  I've been in Dr's offices about twice a week ever since I was discharged from the hospital With what THEY THOUGHT was Conav-19, but all blood tests & nasal swabs come back negative.
> 
> My one pulmonary Dr. is telling me in the papers & medical reports he reads that This vaccine was pushed out too fast by the government so the big pharmaceuticals could make big bucks.   He said he is not getting the shots.  He told me if I went google the *Pandemic of 1913* & see how long it took them to get over it without any vaccines.*  Sure a lot of people died. * Also, look up the polio vaccine timetable. He went on more but I don't want to make this a long post.
> 
> One thing he's keeping me alive.


I think you mean the 1918 "Spanish Flu" pandemic.  While the estimates of deaths vary widely, 25 million to 50 million is considered to be a good approximation.

2 of those deaths were my grandfather's first wife and their child.  

How many deaths from Covid do you consider acceptable?  4.55 million not enough?


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## StarSong (Oct 10, 2021)

Thought I'd check in on a Corona virus thread.  As expected the usual suspects continue to align in the usual way.  

I'm arranging an outdoor baby shower for my son, his wife and my upcoming grandchild.  The invitation clearly states:
"We hope you understand that ALL adults attending must be fully vaccinated."

My niece, her husband and their 17 year old son RSVP-ed yes, then reread the invitation and realized she'd missed that sentence.  They're unvaccinated.  When she texted me with her changed RSVP, I said we'd miss her family.  And we will.  

All choices have consequences.    

And the beat goes on...


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## Sunny (Oct 10, 2021)

Becky, there's another reason for calling ignorant, dangerous people ignoramuses. It's because that's how they are behaving. Gee, I wonder why you left that one out.

Star, congrats in advance on the coming grandchild!


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 10, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> With what THEY THOUGHT was Conav-19, but all blood tests & nasal swabs come back negative.
> 
> My one pulmonary Dr. is telling me in the papers & medical reports he reads that This vaccine was pushed out too fast by the government so the big pharmaceuticals could make big bucks.



Well, at least they tried to protect you from "Conav-19", but were they smart enough to test for COVID-19  or COVFEFE-19?  If that's true about your doctor, then it's either just his opinion and he's a conspiracy nutter, or he's just humoring you when you visit.


Tom 86 said:


> One thing he's keeping me alive.


He may or may not be keeping you alive.  You'd be better served by a doctor who is smart and responsible enough to get vaccinated against a deadly virus before visiting with patients who are in poor health.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 10, 2021)

StarSong said:


> Thought I'd check in on a Corona virus thread.  As expected the usual suspects continue to align in the usual way.
> 
> I'm arranging an outdoor baby shower for my son, his wife and my upcoming grandchild.  The invitation clearly states:
> "We hope you understand that ALL adults attending must be fully vaccinated."
> ...


I hope the shower is wonderful, congratulations to your son and his wife.  The baby will be blessed to be brought into a family of wise and loving adults.


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## Jules (Oct 10, 2021)

StarSong said:


> "We hope you understand that ALL adults attending must be fully vaccinated."


Good for you!  

Congratulations on that new bundle of joy that will be arriving soon.


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## ManjaroKDE (Oct 10, 2021)

You wonder sometimes if there's a parallel world that some people reside in.  Never meeting the real world.
I think they referred to it as "Bizzarro World' in the Superman comics from my youth,


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## Pepper (Oct 10, 2021)

@StarSong 
Congrats on new addition!  Wonderful news!


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## Becky1951 (Oct 10, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Becky, there's another reason for calling ignorant, dangerous people ignoramuses. It's because that's how they are behaving. Gee, I wonder why you left that one out.
> 
> Star, congrats in advance on the coming grandchild!


Why would I leave that out? Because that doesn't even make sense that I would add that considering my comment was pointing out your apparent need for calling some sort of name in most all your comments that you disagree with.


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## Sunny (Oct 10, 2021)

Not name-calling, Becky. Just telling it like it is.

If you saw someone behaving in a really dangerous, suicidal way, repeating the politically motivated nonsense designed to appeal to those who choose to ignore the pleas of scientists, doctors, and nurses all over the world, refusing to get the harmless vaccine that could save their own life... well, what would _you _call them?

I think "ignoramus" is one of the kinder descriptions that could be used.

There are videos of people on the verge of death in hospital beds who are there because they refused the vaccine, and they are literally begging their loved ones to get vaccinated. I think they should broadcast more of those videos. They might provide an opening wedge for common sense to get through.


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## win231 (Oct 10, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Not name-calling, Becky. Just telling it like it is.
> 
> If you saw someone behaving in a really dangerous, suicidal way, repeating the politically motivated nonsense designed to appeal to those who choose to ignore the pleas of scientists, doctors, and nurses all over the world, refusing to get the harmless vaccine that could save their own life... well, what would _you _call them?
> 
> ...


It really must suck to be you.


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## PamfromTx (Oct 10, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> He's not making other people's decisions.  He is urging and offering sound and sensible advice.  If only those who selfishly refuse the vaccine were the only ones to get sick or die and be affected....then other Americans wouldn't care so much.
> 
> They affect everyone else in this country, they are overflowing the hospitals and affecting the medical staff there and the other patients like Al who are getting delayed care in hospitals.  Don't be so paranoid and believe all the disinformation and conspiracies, it's not healthy for you or anyone else, especially when you spread the lies around publicly.
> 
> The majority of hospitalized and dead people are those who have/had not been vaccinated!


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## Irwin (Oct 10, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Not name-calling, Becky. Just telling it like it is.
> 
> If you saw someone behaving in a really dangerous, suicidal way, repeating the politically motivated nonsense designed to appeal to those who choose to ignore the pleas of scientists, doctors, and nurses all over the world, refusing to get the harmless vaccine that could save their own life... well, what would _you _call them?
> 
> ...


Yep, their selfishness is causing a lot of suffering in our country — not only to those who are unable to get surgeries or procedures because there's no room in hospitals but also to healthcare workers who are being traumatized by all the needless deaths and suffering they have to deal with. It's also costing everyone a lot of money in increased insurance rates and government funding, plus it's hurting the economy and preventing a full recovery. Just because they're terrified of a vaccine that's been proven to be safe for over 99.5% of recipients.


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## Shero (Oct 10, 2021)

.
Starsong:  You are a . I congratulate you ! I also congratulate your new grandchild for choosing such a caring and loving Grandmama!!!
.


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## oldman (Oct 12, 2021)

Name calling, here on Senior Forums, really? There is no need to do that. Keep in mind that *we are a friendly forum*. 

I had COVID and the two-shots from Pfizer, but I think that everyone needs to make the choice of whether to take the vaccine or not. Why should I care? I have plenty of protection and that's exactly what the purpose of the vaccine is for, right? Even if I am around someone with COVID, according to most all of the literature that I have read, I may be symptomatic, but beyond that, I shouldn't need a hospital bed. 

Best thing is that we are all individuals and we deserve to be responsible for ourselves. We should be permitted to make our own decisions regarding our body and what we feel comfortable putting into it. When I joined the Marines, I didn't have to take the five shots that they gave me, but I wouldn't have been a Marine for much longer either. Nonetheless, I still had a choice.


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