# Police in VA Pepper Sprayed Black Army Lieutenant For......



## OneEyedDiva (Apr 13, 2021)

Allegedly driving without plates and having dark tinted windows so they considered it a "high risk traffic stop". Caron Nazario who is a Black Hispanic pulled over when he felt it was safe enough where it was well lit. By the time the cops approached him, they could see that he did indeed have a temporary plate taped to the back window of his new vehicle.  Mr. Nazario in full uniform identified himself, politely asked why he was stopped and hesitated getting out of the van telling them that he was afraid to. To that the officer responded (sic) Well you should be. WTF?! Well yeah... guns pointed at his head for a traffic stop??!! One officer then sprayed copious amounts of pepper spray in his face. That officer was subsequently fired and a lawsuit has been initiated. 
_"The complaint alleges that the officers' behavior is "consistent with a disgusting nationwide trend of law enforcement officers, who, believing they can operate with complete impunity, engage in unprofessional, discourteous, racially biased, dangerous, and sometimes deadly abuses of authority."

"Ultimately, Nazario was let go — but not before the officers "threatened Lt. Nazario's job and his commission in the United States Army if he spoke out knowing the harm criminal charges would cause him," the complaint says. That attempt to "extort" Nazario formed the basis of the complaint's argument that the officers violated Nazario's First Amendment rights."  _
The VA Attorney General's office of Civil Rights is now investigating the case and the department. There is a video within the article and frankly, it upset me when I watched this disgusting display by someone who is supposed to be upholding the law on World News Tonight.
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/11/9862...pepper-sprayed-black-army-lieutenant-is-fired

From another article, this is what the army's top enlisted soldier had to say:
_"The Army's top enlisted soldier on Monday denounced an incident last December in which two police officers in Virginia pulled their guns on a Black and Latino lieutenant and pepper-sprayed him during a traffic stop – and he tied it to the military's broader efforts to address endemic racism and extremism in its ranks. 
"Like many of you, I was concerned by the video of LT Nazario's traffic stop in December," Sgt. Maj. of the Army Michael Grinston wrote in a series of tweets Monday afternoon. "He represented himself and our Army well through his calm, professional response to the situation – I'm very proud of him."_


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## Jeweltea (Apr 13, 2021)

And they pepper sprayed his dog who was in a kennel in his truck. This whole episode was totally disgusting.


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## Tish (Apr 13, 2021)

OMG, it is totally disgusting.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Apr 13, 2021)

This occurred 4 months ago and we're now hearing about it. Body cameras video is paid for by the public and should not be held hostage by police departments. Just think of what police have gotten away with before body cameras and cell phone cameras.


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## rgp (Apr 13, 2021)

Again, all he had to do is comply with the demands of officers.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 13, 2021)

rgp said:


> Again, all he had to do is comply with the demands of officers.


I expected this kind of response from you. As I've pointed out in the past, Black men who have complied have been killed anyway. That's why this man was afraid. You are one of the ones we say are "born not to know". Can you guess what that means?


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Apr 13, 2021)

rgp said:


> Again, all he had to do is comply with the demands of officers.


I guess the lieutenant could use 3 hands to comply with guns pointed at him, no less.

"I don't even want to reach for my seatbelt, can you please? ... My hands are out, can you please - look, this is really messed up," Nazario stammered upon being pepper-sprayed, his eyes clenched shut.

The officers shouted conflicting orders at Nazario, telling him to put his hands out the window while also telling him to open the door and get out, the lawsuit says."

https://abc7ny.com/virgina-police-p...black-at-gunpoint-arrested-virginia/10504779/


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## Warrigal (Apr 13, 2021)

No wonder the police are not respected if this is how they treat people.


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## Keesha (Apr 13, 2021)

Yep. And to think I just came from a thread stating that most of the killing done by cops are warranted since criminals refuse to follow the law. Sure. Here’s a perfect example. 
Good thing rgp  isn’t a cop!


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## Pecos (Apr 13, 2021)

I believe that the local military authority may have the authority to put that entire town off-limits to military personnel until this gets corrected. The sudden loss of military customers is a major economic hit to a community and I have seen it done before. It gets the attention of a community in a big hurry. Doing this is a bit of a hardship on service personnel, but they do understand and they adapt far quicker that the merchants and revenue producers for the community who own this mess. 
I find this kind of disgusting behavior one more example of why we need major reforms of law enforcement done by the federal government since state and city governments continue to "fart" it off.


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## ohioboy (Apr 13, 2021)

The Causes of Action (Counts) begin at paragraph 65: 8 in total. Praying for a Million in damages. And it is a personal capacity lawsuit, not official capacity.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20612900/1-complaint.pdf


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## WhatInThe (Apr 13, 2021)

And the officers acted that way because they probably did it before and got away with it or witnessed it ie culture in the department. I don't necessarily think the problem is worse but as noted cameras and intense news coverage of these incidents has helped bring bad apples like this to light.

I will say I'm from an era where one dare not question police/commands like because it was implied not even by police that this was the sort of thing that could happen. Too many cops are on a power trip.


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## rgp (Apr 14, 2021)

Nosy Bee-54 said:


> I guess the lieutenant could use 3 hands to comply with guns pointed at him, no less.
> 
> "I don't even want to reach for my seatbelt, can you please? ... My hands are out, can you please - look, this is really messed up," Nazario stammered upon being pepper-sprayed, his eyes clenched shut.
> 
> ...



 What is conflicting about, put your hands out the window, and open the door ? 

 The door can be easily opened using the outside door handle.


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## rgp (Apr 14, 2021)

Keesha said:


> Yep. And to think I just came from a thread stating that most of the killing done by cops are warranted since criminals refuse to follow the law. Sure. Here’s a perfect example.
> Good thing rgp  isn’t a cop!



Indeed, if one does not follow/obey the law , and/or refuses to follow a lawful command by the officer on scene ...... they may very well get shot by the police.

Do we really want to create an atmosphere where these folks can just ignore the police ...... and can get away with whatever they did ?


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## Chet (Apr 14, 2021)

Once again, someone fails to follow police commands and suffers the consequences and the media blames the cops. Fortunately the police officer was black as well as the driver or all hell would have bean unleashed again.


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## Aunt Marg (Apr 14, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> The Causes of Action (Counts) begin at paragraph 65: 8 in total. *Praying for a Million in damages.* And it is a personal capacity lawsuit, not official capacity.
> 
> https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20612900/1-complaint.pdf


Me, too.

Thank you for posting the link, Ohio.


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## Aunt Bea (Apr 14, 2021)

It's probably no surprise that I see this differently than most people.

The two policemen attempted to stop a car with dark tinted windows and no license plate without knowing anything about the driver or the contents of the vehicle.  The driver continued to drive and finally pulled into a gas station.  IMO that was a sensible thing for him to do but I understand how the police would consider that an evasive tactic intended to buy the occupants time to hide things, arm themselves, etc...

If you watch the entire video as opposed to the shorter clip used on the news you can see that the two officers stayed back from the vehicle and asked repeatedly for the driver to exit the vehicle.  Each time the driver refused in a calm passive-aggressive manner.  IMO if the driver had complied with the initial request this situation would not have escalated the way it did.

My only real complaint/concern over what I've seen in the video is the unprofessional behavior of the older policeman. IMO when the police stop people they should not be swearing or making innuendos about what could happen, etc...

There is definitely room for improvement on both sides but IMO if the driver had complied with the initial request he could have gotten off with a warning or a ticket for the tint on the windows and been on his way.


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 14, 2021)

Keesha said:


> Yep. And to think I just came from a thread stating that most of the killing done by cops are warranted since criminals refuse to follow the law. Sure. Here’s a perfect example.
> Good thing rgp  isn’t a cop!


Good thing rgp  isn’t a cop!   You got *that* right!!


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## rgp (Apr 14, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Good thing rgp  isn’t a cop!   You got *that* right!!



 So here we are once again, no meaningful, substantive content relating to the topic @ hand. Just snarky remarks about the poster. In this case me. 

 Feel better ? Got it off your chest.


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## JimBob1952 (Apr 14, 2021)

This happened not too far from where I live so it's on local news all the time.  It's unpleasant to watch, to say the least.  One of the police seems to have a real attitude problem, especially when he asks Lt. Nazario if he's an enlisted man and finds out that he's an officer.  I presume this is the police officer who was subsequently fired.  

I don't quite understand the lieutenant's reasoning in being unwilling to leave the car, but I don't understand the drawn guns or the pepper spray either.  And then at the end of the incident Lt. Nazario wasn't charged with anything.


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## Keesha (Apr 14, 2021)

rgp said:


> rgp said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, if one does not follow/obey the law , and/or refuses to follow a lawful command by the officer on scene ...... they may very well get shot by the police.
> ...


Not worth discussing with ‘you.’


rgp said:


> rgp said:
> 
> 
> > ?
> ...


YES!!!


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## ProTruckDriver (Apr 14, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> This happened not too far from where I live so it's on local news all the time.  It's unpleasant to watch, to say the least.  One of the police seems to have a real attitude problem, especially when he asks Lt. Nazario if he's an enlisted man and finds out that he's an officer.  I presume this is the police officer who was subsequently fired.
> 
> I don't quite understand the lieutenant's reasoning in being unwilling to leave the car, but I don't understand the drawn guns or the pepper spray either.  And then at the end of the incident Lt. Nazario wasn't charged with anything.


Yep, I'm seeing it on the local news also. If anyone is familiar with Windsor Virginia this is par for the coarse for their Police Department. I'm very familiar with the town. I've been through it hundreds of times driving an 18 wheeler when I drove years ago and have been stopped. I've watched the videos and read the report. Both cops giving conflicting orders. When you have a gun pointed in your face I can see why Lt. Nazario acted the way he did. IMHO this is excessive use of force by the police. Read the entire report that @ohioboy posted:


ohioboy said:


> The Causes of Action (Counts) begin at paragraph 65: 8 in total. Praying for a Million in damages. And it is a personal capacity lawsuit, not official capacity.
> 
> https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20612900/1-complaint.pdf


Another town in the area to look out for is Emporia Virginia.
I believe Lt. Nazario will get more than a million for this. 
Now if anyone thinks I'm anti police, I'm not. I wore a badge in the military for 23 years.  
The City of Chesapeake Virginia has lowered the hiring age to become a Sheriff to 18 years old. Much too young if you ask me.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Apr 14, 2021)

rgp said:


> What is conflicting about, put your hands out the window, and open the door ?
> 
> The door can be easily opened using the outside door handle.


Why don't you go and sit in your car. Put your hands out the window and use the door handle as you suggested while the seatbelt is locked. The lieutenant knew those terrorists were itching to shoot him.


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## Patch (Apr 14, 2021)

"Driving while black".  The military officer did not want to stop in the dark, unknowing why he was being targeted.  He drove 1 minute and 20 seconds to a lighted area to stop.  That procedure is recommended by many police departments.  Supposedly stopped for no visible registration and tinted windows.  Why would the officers pull their weapons and order the gentleman from his car.  What had he done to appear dangerous to them or the public.

He immediately followed the orders to put his hands outside the vehicle.  When ordered out of the vehicle, he said he was scared to exit.  Well, with no explanation as to why he'd been stopped and with two officers pointing their handguns as him, didn't he at least deserve an explanation as to why he have been stopped?  The senior officer yelled at him he "should be scared" to get out of the car.  That officer also used a movie line that the military officer would "ride the lightning"... be electrocuted.  Still, no indication of why he was being stopped.

The senior officer proceeded to spray the military gentleman, blinding him.  He was pulled from the vehicle.  Then, the senior officer told the uniformed military officer not to report the incident to his superiors.  They let him go on his way.

No person, black or white, should be treated like this by a police officer.  No person, black or white, should be threatened by an officer for a minor traffic infraction.  And... once the officers approached the vehicle, the temporary registration was clearly displayed in the vehicle's rear window.  The senior officer was fired... as he should have been.  The Sergeant Major of the Army, based at the Pentagon, issued a statement commending the Lieutenant for his ability to remain calm throughout the incident.  He displayed demeanor that made us all proud to know he is a U.S. Army soldier, caught in a difficult situation by an out-of-control police officer.  

I sincerely hope he is successful in his civil suit against the officer and the City.


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## Dana (Apr 14, 2021)

Aunt Bea said:


> It's probably no surprise that I see this differently than most people.
> 
> The two policemen attempted to stop a car with dark tinted windows and no license plate without knowing anything about the driver or the contents of the vehicle.  The driver continued to drive and finally pulled into a gas station.  IMO that was a sensible thing for him to do but I understand how the police would consider that an evasive tactic intended to buy the occupants time to hide things, arm themselves, etc...
> 
> ...


*Excellent response...would you like to come and work for me?*


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## ohioboy (Apr 14, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> I don't quite understand the lieutenant's reasoning in being unwilling to leave the car, but I don't understand the drawn guns or the pepper spray either.  And then at the end of the incident Lt. Nazario wasn't charged with anything.


The order to exit the car was absolutely non aggressive in nature and legal, so yes he should have complied.

Spraying an unhealthy person, it could possibly kill them, it just might kill me. To use such in this instance is assault, which is one of the Counts in the lawsuit.


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## Dana (Apr 14, 2021)

People who drive cars should follow this procedure...there are several things that drivers should so...

….As soon as you see the police officer’s flashing lights or hear the car’s siren, turn on your own emergency flashers. This will inform other drivers that you are the driver who is being pulled over and alert them that you will be slowing down in preparation to pull over.

…Search for a safe location to park your car.

…As soon as you have found a place to pull over and parked your car, turn off the ignition. Never do anything that the police officer might interpret as an intention to get away, no matter how minor your alleged traffic infraction might be.

…Immediately roll down your window if you have been pulled over by a marked police car..

…Be patient. Always stay in the car until and unless the officer asks you to step out. You must exit your car if the officer orders you to.

… When you first begin to initiate conversation with the police officer, remain calm, polite, and respectful. Do not become defensive.

…Let the officer see documents required, if you do not have them, explain and he/she will check you are telling the truth. Be respectful..

*Using common sense and good manners can make it go much smoother than it otherwise might*.

This goes for anyone, black or white. It is normal procedure also in Australia. Not hard!!!
'


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## Butterfly (Apr 14, 2021)

rgp said:


> Indeed, if one does not follow/obey the law , and/or refuses to follow a lawful command by the officer on scene ...... they may very well get shot by the police.
> 
> Do we really want to create an atmosphere where these folks can just ignore the police ...... and can get away with whatever they did ?


Who are "these folks?"  An army officer driving home with his dog in the car?  

I guess in your opinion it is better to have an atmosphere where police can kill whomever they please, for whatever perceived infraction?  Like driving while Black?


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## Dana (Apr 14, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Who are "these folks?"  An army officer driving home with his dog in the car?
> 
> I guess in your opinion it is better to have an atmosphere where police can kill whomever they please, for whatever perceived infraction?  Like driving while Black?


.
You are asking : “Who are "these folks?" An army officer driving home with his dog in the car?”

The answer is* in my opinion*: An army officer who should know better, He had no rear licence plate…his SUV had tinted windows. He did the wrong thing. He did not obey commands.

The officer should not be fired because this teaches him and others nothing. He should have received long and intensive training on how to conduct himself and also some psychiatric help. He was fired because they feared the usual riot, if immediate action was not taken.

If people always jump to the defence of motorists (black or white) who do the wrong thing…they are setting them up for future disaster… you’re doing them NO favours. Instead teach them how to respond in a civil manner.


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## ohioboy (Apr 14, 2021)

Rodney King did not resist, yet he was beaten to near death. Non compliance by a civilian provides no Constitutional basis for assault.


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## Warrigal (Apr 15, 2021)

Dana said:


> .
> You are asking : “Who are "these folks?" An army officer driving home with his dog in the car?”
> 
> The answer is* in my opinion*: An army officer who should know better, He had no rear licence plate…his SUV had tinted windows. He did the wrong thing. He did not obey commands.


Is it against the law to have tinted windows? Serious question.


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## ohioboy (Apr 15, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Is it against the law to have tinted windows? Serious question.


Many jurisdictions/states prohibit a certain density of see through, yes.


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## Warrigal (Apr 15, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Many jurisdictions/states prohibit a certain density of see through, yes.


Does that apply to celebrities?


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## ohioboy (Apr 15, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Does that apply to celebrities?


Sure does.


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## ohioboy (Apr 15, 2021)

Warrigal, just pick any state from the list to view their laws, here is Ohio's.

https://www.tinting-laws.com/ohio/

Here is Virginia's, the state in the topic.

https://www.tinting-laws.com/virginia/


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## Warrigal (Apr 15, 2021)

I'll first need to check my own state to see if they are restricted.
It's been a long time since I had to take a driving test.

Found the information for New South Wales and the same page has links for all states/territories in Australia and US.

New South Wales Window Tint Laws | Car Tinting Laws (tinting-laws.com)

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.


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## ohioboy (Apr 15, 2021)

My esteemed pleasure.


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## Dana (Apr 15, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Is it against the law to have tinted windows? Serious question.



_Police in Virginia can and will pull vehicles over for excessively darkened windows. I know this for sure my husband is from West Virginia and he told me this.

In Australia as you probably know the legal limit is 35% VLT. For windshields the tint has to be put at the very top 10% of the shield. Another thing in Oz you have to inform your insurer or you may not be covered._


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## Warrigal (Apr 15, 2021)

No Dana, I did not know. I've never considered having tinted windows so I've never thought about it. I know now.


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## rgp (Apr 15, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Who are "these folks?"  An army officer driving home with his dog in the car?
> 
> I guess in your opinion it is better to have an atmosphere where police can kill whomever they please, for whatever perceived infraction?  Like driving while Black?



Anyone that refuses to follow a lawful command given by a working police officer.

You're trying to place the race card, where it does not apply.


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## rgp (Apr 15, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Who are "these folks?"  An army officer driving home with his dog in the car?
> 
> I guess in your opinion it is better to have an atmosphere where police can kill whomever they please, for whatever perceived infraction?  Like driving while Black?



BTW, do not try to 'spin' my opinion, I voiced my opinion and I stand by it.


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## ohioboy (Apr 15, 2021)

rgp said:


> Anyone that refuses to follow a lawful command given by a working police officer.
> 
> You're trying to place the race card, where it does not apply.


A lawful command may be to keep your arms in the air. What if you can't due to weak bones except for a few minutes. You tell the cop you just can't keep them up, but he does not give a crap. Do you deserved to be tased?


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## rgp (Apr 15, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> A lawful command may be to keep your arms in the air. What if you can't due to weak bones except for a few minutes. You tell the cop you just can't keep them up, but he does not give a crap. Do you deserved to be tased?



I won't waste my time as it doesn't even apply in this case. How about we stick to the topic, and not introduce unsubstantiated scenarios ?


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## ohioboy (Apr 15, 2021)

rgp said:


> I won't waste my time as it doesn't even apply in this case. How about we stick to the topic, and not introduce unsubstantiated scenarios ?



I knew you'd avoid that question since you did not want to admit I am right!


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## rgp (Apr 15, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> I knew you'd avoid that question since you did not want to admit I am right!



Excuse me ........ your scenario has no bearing on this case. How in the world can you even imagine that ........ making you right ?

This case this topic is discussing an incident involving a young , healthy , physically fit soldier ! who refused to follow a lawful command given by a working police officer......... He was wrong, and so are you.


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## Dana (Apr 15, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> I knew you'd avoid that question since you did not want to admit I am right!


.
_You are not "right" ...you are wrong! Your argument does not apply to this case. If a person has weak arms, the sooner they get out of the car the better. 

Even more important, if your arms are too weak to hold up for a couple of minutes, you may not be fit to drive a car!
._


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## ohioboy (Apr 15, 2021)

You can drive with one hand while resting it on your lap/chest. Another nonsensical response.


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## Dana (Apr 15, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> You can drive with one hand while resting it on your lap/chest. Another nonsensical response.


*That's illegal...*


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## ohioboy (Apr 15, 2021)

Dana said:


> *That's illegal...*


Legal Citation please?


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## ohioboy (Apr 15, 2021)

Dana said:


> What a silly old man you are....


What's wrong with you pal? You said it was illegal and I asked you to post a legal citation, and I'm silly? You need to shut up.


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## Keesha (Apr 15, 2021)

It’s illegal to have tinted front windows where we are moving to but in Ontario you can.


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## Sunny (Apr 15, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Good thing rgp  isn’t a cop!  You got *that* right!!



How do we know he isn't?


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## ohioboy (Apr 16, 2021)

Did anyone hear on the video at any time did the cop say to the Lt. he was under arrest?


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## ProTruckDriver (Apr 16, 2021)




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## AnnieA (Apr 16, 2021)

This is nuts.  You can hear the second officer say "Traffic stop at BP." Next he opens his door and immediately racks the slide of his gun.  Thinking that's not! an acceptable progression for a traffic stop.


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## Butterfly (Apr 16, 2021)

Dana said:


> .
> You are asking : “Who are "these folks?" An army officer driving home with his dog in the car?”
> 
> The answer is* in my opinion*: An army officer who should know better, He had no rear licence plate…his SUV had tinted windows. He did the wrong thing. He did not obey commands.
> ...



He had a legal temporary registration posted in the rear window where it was supposed to be posted.


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## Butterfly (Apr 16, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Did anyone hear on the video at any time did the cop say to the Lt. he was under arrest?


Not I.


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## ohioboy (Apr 17, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Not I.


Nor I. The cop should have said you can go but expect a Summons in the mail or maybe a Warrant for arrest. Why cause the man to struggle to breathe?


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## SeaBreeze (Apr 17, 2021)

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/notice-all-members-please-read.8331/


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 18, 2021)

rgp said:


> So here we are once again, no meaningful, substantive content relating to the topic @ hand. Just snarky remarks about the poster. In this case me.
> 
> Feel better ? Got it off your chest.


In case you didn't notice...I wasn't the one who said Good thing RGP isn't a cop (first). I quoted Keesha's reply which I usually put in quote marks but forgot this time. So you replied to my reply to her.  LOL   As the original poster, I think my substantial view has already been established.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 27, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> The Causes of Action (Counts) begin at paragraph 65: 8 in total. Praying for a Million in damages. And it is a personal capacity lawsuit, not official capacity.
> 
> https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20612900/1-complaint.pdf


Thank you for posting this attachment OB! I'm glad they got the ball rolling and hope he wins this case big time.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 27, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> This happened not too far from where I live so it's on local news all the time.  It's unpleasant to watch, to say the least.  One of the police seems to have a real attitude problem, especially when he asks Lt. Nazario if he's an enlisted man and finds out that he's an officer.  I presume this is the police officer who was subsequently fired.
> 
> I don't quite understand the lieutenant's reasoning in being unwilling to leave the car, but I don't understand the drawn guns or the pepper spray either.  And then at the end of the incident Lt. Nazario wasn't charged with anything.


Why should the LT. have been charged with anything. It was a bogus stop to begin with. You don't understand why he was afraid to get out of the car...really?! He was afraid that in that deserted area, they were going to beat the sh*t out of him and/or kill him. I understand it perfectly I believe you are correct about which officer was fired.

@Nosy Bee-54  Re: your last reply....*Exactly!*


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 27, 2021)

Dana said:


> *That's illegal...*


Yet people do it all the time!


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## fmdog44 (Jul 27, 2021)

The officers told him to get out of the car 48 times by my count. *48 times! *They should have been given awards for putting up with this punks crap. Punks that don't follow police commands are striking the match that can lead to fires.


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## ohioboy (Jul 27, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> Thank you for posting this attachment OB! I'm glad they got the ball rolling and hope he wins this case big time.


Settlement conference set for Nov. 23rd. The govt. does not want this to go to a jury.

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/39542394/Nazario_v_Gutierrez_et_al


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## rgp (Jul 27, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> The officers told him to get out of the car 48 times by my count. *48 times! *They should have been given awards for putting up with this punks crap. Punks that don't follow police commands are striking the match that can lead to fires.


 Agree strongly here ......... for some reason, they just don't get it ?!!?


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## win231 (Jul 28, 2021)

Keesha said:


> Yep. And to think I just came from a thread stating that most of the killing done by cops are warranted since criminals refuse to follow the law. Sure. Here’s a perfect example.
> Good thing rgp  isn’t a cop!


I bet he has friends or family who are.


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## win231 (Jul 28, 2021)

Patch said:


> "Driving while black".  The military officer did not want to stop in the dark, unknowing why he was being targeted.  He drove 1 minute and 20 seconds to a lighted area to stop.  That procedure is recommended by many police departments.  Supposedly stopped for no visible registration and tinted windows.  Why would the officers pull their weapons and order the gentleman from his car.  What had he done to appear dangerous to them or the public.
> 
> He immediately followed the orders to put his hands outside the vehicle.  When ordered out of the vehicle, he said he was scared to exit.  Well, with no explanation as to why he'd been stopped and with two officers pointing their handguns as him, didn't he at least deserve an explanation as to why he have been stopped?  The senior officer yelled at him he "should be scared" to get out of the car.  That officer also used a movie line that the military officer would "ride the lightning"... be electrocuted.  Still, no indication of why he was being stopped.
> 
> ...


After women were raped & murdered by fake police officers, people were told to drive to a well-lighted area when pulled over by a cop.
And, here is a real police officer who was convicted of rape & murder during bogus traffic stops:
George Gwaltney, a former officer from Barstow, was *convicted on May 10, 1984* in federal court for the on‑duty rape and slaying of 23-year-old Robin Bishop on January 11, 1982. He had reported finding a dead body off a deserted stretch of interstate 15 the same day he murdered her with his service weapon.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/05/11/Former-highway-patrolman-convicted-in-death/6797453096000/


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## rgp (Jul 28, 2021)

win231 said:


> I bet he has friends or family who are.



 You people do not even know me, and yet you make assumptions about me. Mostly because I disagree with you ........ That screams volumes about you.

 We all are expected to obey the law.


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## ohioboy (Jul 28, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> This is nuts.  You can hear the second officer say "Traffic stop at BP." Next he opens his door and immediately racks the slide of his gun.  Thinking that's not! an acceptable progression for a traffic stop.


The "initial" encounter seems to be lawful. The Lt. did not stop when was lit up, that in and of itself is an offense/crime. It clearly was not a Gov. vehicle. They could not run a plate because none was visible. The call to draw weapons when stopped is most probably the reason the Lt. was scared. IMO, the police greatly escalated the situation. But in initial support of, the police were scared to. I can't say drawing weapons was necessary initially, nor can I say it was not.

But the fact he was in a lit up area now, which was his intention, the police should have surmised this, he did not "flee" as to put a chase procedure in effect, there is a difference. The repeated requests for him exit his car escalated the conduct. They should have then turned their strategy to another method.


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## cdestroyer (Jul 28, 2021)

police are not supermen,they are just as afraid of getting shot as the supposed criminal and they act accordingly, they are not swat,sf,seals who are trained in heavy tactics. but on the other hand i have always maintained that if you did not want to get shot then find another job, they have body proctection on, they are armed.


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## Butterfly (Jul 29, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> The officers told him to get out of the car 48 times by my count. *48 times! *They should have been given awards for putting up with this punks crap. Punks that don't follow police commands are striking the match that can lead to fires.



I think the characterization of an active duty Army lieutenant going home from work as a "punk" is a bit over the top.


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## win231 (Jul 29, 2021)

rgp said:


> You people do not even know me, and yet you make assumptions about me. Mostly because I disagree with you ........ That screams volumes about you.
> 
> We all are expected to obey the law.


We've got your number.


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## rgp (Jul 29, 2021)

win231 said:


> We've got your number.




 And yet another pointless comment ... about the poster [me] that has no bearing on the original topic.


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## fmdog44 (Jul 31, 2021)

The REASON for outlawing certain degrees of window tinting is the police cannot see inside. So the punk lieutenant knowing broke the law for a reason long before he was pulled over. Maybe an extended tour in the Middle East would get his little brain right. Oh, and by the way when a cop tells you do something do it.


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## Knight (Jul 31, 2021)

No visible license plate, heavily tinted windows equals a legal traffic stop.  So why would a police officer have a gun ready for a routine traffic stop?  Google this for an answer.

police officers shot during routine traffic stops


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## ohioboy (Aug 1, 2021)

Knight said:


> No visible license plate, heavily tinted windows equals a legal traffic stop.  So why would a police officer have a gun ready for a routine traffic stop?


The fact the driver did not stop when lit up, although he did not flee to cause a chase, he still did not stop until he reached a lit area. It is probably the officers were trained to draw weapons in such cases since that may indicate a possible dangerous suspect.


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## Knight (Aug 1, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> The fact the driver did not stop when lit up, although he did not flee to cause a chase, he still did not stop until he reached a lit area. It is probably the officers were trained to draw weapons in such cases since that may indicate a possible dangerous suspect.


Why edit out the last part about googling

police officers shot during routine traffic stops

The reason for googling. There are too many entries about police being shot during a routine traffic stop to post to select only a few to demonstrate that erring on the side of caution beats not going home alive. 

Finding a lit area tells me that the police stopping a van with heavily tinted windows couldn't have known the race of the driver so stopping for race isn't the issue. The non compliance to exit the van is the root cause of what took place later.


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## ohioboy (Aug 1, 2021)

Knight said:
			
		

> Why edit out the last part about googling



I did not need to Google anything to make my statement.


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## Knight (Aug 1, 2021)

For those like you that introduced scenarios that have nothing to do with a legal traffic stop. I posted this for the benefit of others
Quote
"The reason for googling. There are too many entries about police being shot during a routine traffic stop to post to select only a few to demonstrate that erring on the side of caution beats not going home alive."

Training along with self preservation  while a no brainer just doesn't sink in unless some factual information can be supplied.


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## ohioboy (Aug 1, 2021)

Once the driver fled it was no longer "routine" in nature.


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## Knight (Aug 2, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Once the driver fled it was no longer "routine" in nature.


Maybe were reading different accounts of what happened. 

I read that the driver pulled over in a well lit area. Nothing about fleeing.


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## rgp (Aug 2, 2021)

Knight said:


> Maybe were reading different accounts of what happened.
> 
> I read that the driver pulled over in a well lit area. Nothing about fleeing.



 If i recall correctly ......... he pulled over in a well lit area _*long after*_ he was first "lit-up" by the first officer. That could be seen as "fleeing" .


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## Knight (Aug 2, 2021)

rgp said:


> If i recall correctly ......... he pulled over in a well lit area _*long after*_ he was first "lit-up" by the first officer. That could be seen as "fleeing" .


I could agree if there was a place that was immediately accessible & not dark. Slowing down & signaling the intent to pull over  seems  reasonable to me. 

Quote from beginning of the article. 
That stretch of road, just west of Norfolk, Va., was dark, and there didn't seem to be anywhere to stop safely.

So Nazario, who is Black and Latino, slowed down, put a blinker on and — about a mile down the road — pulled over at a well-lit BP gas station, 

The part about being black IMO is to sensationalize the article. Since it was dark & the windows were heavily tinted race would not be known. 

If there is any good it would be that pepper spray not bullets was used.


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## Butterfly (Aug 3, 2021)

rgp said:


> If i recall correctly ......... he pulled over in a well lit area _*long after*_ he was first "lit-up" by the first officer. That could be seen as "fleeing" .



With all that has been going on lately, I can certainly empathize with a black man not wanting to stop for cops in an unlit area.


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## rgp (Aug 3, 2021)

Knight said:


> I could agree if there was a place that was immediately accessible & not dark. Slowing down & signaling the intent to pull over  seems  reasonable to me.
> 
> Quote from beginning of the article.
> That stretch of road, just west of Norfolk, Va., was dark, and there didn't seem to be anywhere to stop safely.
> ...



 " Slowing down & signaling the intent to pull over  seems  reasonable to me."

  Doesn't matter what seems reasonable to you. What matters is only what is precived by the officer. 

 "Since it was dark & the windows were heavily tinted race would not be known."

 That is the second law he broke, windows are not supposed to be _heavily_ tinted.


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## feywon (Aug 3, 2021)

rgp said:


> Again, all he had to do is comply with the demands of officers.


Funny i don't remember any of the people who think like that saying it about Ashli Babbitt, tho she was clearly part of mob committing an illegal act and got multiple warnings!


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## Knight (Aug 3, 2021)

rgp said:


> " Slowing down & signaling the intent to pull over  seems  reasonable to me."
> 
> Doesn't matter what seems reasonable to you. What matters is only what is precived by the officer.
> 
> ...


Nothing in the article suggested the police suspected he was fleeing. How do you know what the police perceived? Don't put in what isn't known.

Military people move around.  The article doesn't explain when or where the tinting was done. What is legal in one state may not be in another. For example in NV. chauffer tint is legal other states it isn't.  It would be nice if the article explained how  long  the driver was driving around with no problems. Or if the driver knew the tint was illegal. 

 All we know is what is in the article. He drove to a well lit area, the driver didn't exit the vehicle when requested to do so. And the police officer over reacted to the extent of being fired for his actions. 

Ignorance of a law isn't an excuse but some common sense on the part of the police given what little we know would have gone a long way in preventing this from escalating to where it did.


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## rgp (Aug 3, 2021)

"Nothing in the article suggested the police suspected he was fleeing. How do you know what the police perceived? Don't put in what isn't known."

I never said he was fleeing, or that he was suspected to be. But if a driver doesn't stop , within a mile, after being 'lit-up' ..... it _*could *_'be percieved' by the officer that something is amiss.

"Don't put in what isn't known."

I'll put in opinion, just as you.

" being fired for his actions."

 IMO, he was only fired, because that is currently the way of the nation ....... The brass covering their asses. 

So exactly what laws, do you want police officers to ignore ?


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## Knight (Aug 3, 2021)

rgp said:


> "Nothing in the article suggested the police suspected he was fleeing. How do you know what the police perceived? Don't put in what isn't known."
> 
> I never said he was fleeing, or that he was suspected to be. But if a driver doesn't stop , within a mile, after being 'lit-up' ..... it _*could *_'be percieved' by the officer that something is amiss.
> 
> ...


I didn't mention anything about ignoring laws. I did post
Quote
"Ignorance of a law isn't an excuse but some common sense on the part of the police given what little we know would have gone a long way in preventing this from escalating to where it did."

I expect police to be professional & to use their training combined with common sense. What do you expect from police? Do you think what took place is the way police should act ?

Quote
"IMO, he was only fired, because that is currently the way of the nation ....... The brass covering their asses."

Are you saying you expect police officials to condone what IMO clearly was bad behavior by the officer resulting in national coverage of this traffic stop. 

It's reports like this one that is beginning to change the way of the past. As I posted IF there is any good pepper spray instead of bullets was used. Weed out the bad and these articles will be a thing of the past.


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## rgp (Aug 3, 2021)

Knight said:


> I didn't mention anything about ignoring laws. I did post
> Quote
> "Ignorance of a law isn't an excuse but some common sense on the part of the police given what little we know would have gone a long way in preventing this from escalating to where it did."
> 
> ...



   "I didn't mention anything about ignoring laws. "

 Never said you did ....... I merely ask you a question.

  "Do you think what took place is the way police should act ?"

 Yes i do. Take into custody/Make the arrest and protect themselves.

 "Are you saying you expect police officials to condone what IMO clearly was bad behavior by the officer resulting in national coverage of this traffic stop."

 I said, what I said.


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## Butterfly (Aug 4, 2021)

rgp said:


> " Slowing down & signaling the intent to pull over  seems  reasonable to me."
> 
> Doesn't matter what seems reasonable to you. What matters is only what is precived by the officer.
> 
> ...



Actually, what is perceived by the officer is not all that matters -- there is a little thing called the law that matters, too.  That law protects the civil rights of that driver as much as it protects the officers.  Chauvin, _et al._ "perceived" that George Floyd deserved to be suffocated to death over a "perceived" counterfeit bill. They were very wrong

Rules about tinted windows vary from locale to locale.  Overly tinted windows don't earn the driver a blast of gas to the face. The windows didn't prevent the driver from knowing he was a black man about to be pulled over in a very dark area.


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## rgp (Aug 4, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Actually, what is perceived by the officer is not all that matters -- there is a little thing called the law that matters, too.  That law protects the civil rights of that driver as much as it protects the officers.  Chauvin, _et al._ "perceived" that George Floyd deserved to be suffocated to death over a "perceived" counterfeit bill. They were very wrong
> 
> Rules about tinted windows vary from locale to locale.  Overly tinted windows don't earn the driver a blast of gas to the face. The windows didn't prevent the driver from knowing he was a black man about to be pulled over in a very dark area.




 "Chauvin, _et al._ "perceived" that George Floyd deserved to be suffocated to death over a "perceived" counterfeit bill. They were very wrong"

 What did you say about adding what is not there ?

"Actually, what is perceived by the officer is not all that matters -- "

  At the time of the stop......it is/was indeed all that matters. That is what keeps the officer going home @ the end of his shift each day/night.

 "Overly tinted windows don't earn the driver a blast of gas to the face. "

 The tinted windows didn't earn the pepper spray ........ the refusal to follow the commands of the officer are what earned it.


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## Time Waits 4 No Man (Aug 4, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> With all that has been going on lately, I can certainly empathize with a black man not wanting to stop for cops in an unlit area.


Can you also sympathize with a white police officer, since (statistically-speaking) he is four times as likely to be killed by a black he pulls over than a white?


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## fmdog44 (Aug 4, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Actually, what is perceived by the officer is not all that matters -- there is a little thing called the law that matters, too.  That law protects the civil rights of that driver as much as it protects the officers.  Chauvin, _et al._ "perceived" that George Floyd deserved to be suffocated to death over a "perceived" counterfeit bill. They were very wrong
> 
> Rules about tinted windows vary from locale to locale.  Overly tinted windows don't earn the driver a blast of gas to the face. The windows didn't prevent the driver from knowing he was a black man about to be pulled over in a very dark area.


Refusing an order 48 times does warrant a blast in the face with pepper spray. People like you should go on a police patrol on a Saturday night for a closer look at the shit going on in our cities. Also. make sure you wear a bullet proof vest.


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## Butterfly (Aug 6, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> Refusing an order 48 times does warrant a blast in the face with pepper spray. People like you should go on a police patrol on a Saturday night for a closer look at the shit going on in our cities. Also. make sure you wear a bullet proof vest.



Those officers were fired for what they did, which would tend to indicate that what they did was unacceptable to their superiors.


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## rgp (Aug 7, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Those officers were fired for what they did, which would tend to indicate that what they did was unacceptable to their superiors.



Those 'superiors' were just covering their asses in the 2021BLM atmosphere in which we live.


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## fmdog44 (Aug 7, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Those officers were fired for what they did, which would tend to indicate that what they did was unacceptable to their superiors.


No, the truth is in present day America if you say "Boo" to a minority you are  banned forever and discredited as a human being.


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> No wonder the police are not respected if this is how they treat people.


Only a small fraction are, but as they say "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch".


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## Nathan (Aug 7, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> ...having dark tinted windows so they considered it a "high risk traffic stop".



Sorry, this part is just so ironic, I know first hand that the *very first thing* a rookie cop does, is goes out and has his/hers car windows tinted as dark as is can possibly be done.   Young cops are "high" on being above the law.   Gradually, reality sinks in.


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## ostralee (Aug 8, 2021)

So we read about what can happen to a stopped driver for not following the sometimes confusing and risky orders from policemen.  We hear drivers can get beaten or shot.  But on another side, what happens to the policemen if they engage in blatantly unclear, unprofessional or illegal behavior?  We hear that they sometimes get fired.  

Do police with bad behavior move on to a different town, and then keep on doing their thing?  And does a town pay legal costs and damages for policemen automatically through the town's tax funding?  Or do policemen have individual financial consequences, which would give them pause for bad behavior? 

We should also acknowledge that policing is often a stressful job. I have read that the suicide rate is sadly high, in addition to other job related risks. 

Where is the balance in all this?


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## ohioboy (Aug 8, 2021)

ostralee said:


> Do police with bad behavior move on to a different town, and then keep on doing their thing?  And does a town pay legal costs and damages for policemen automatically through the town's tax funding?  Or do policemen have individual financial consequences, which would give them pause for bad behavior?


Yes, rogue police move town to town, despite what department's claim of checking their background from other jobs, sometimes they don't care and hire anyway. The employing dept./insurance co. pays any civil settlements even if the officer is sued in an _individual_ capacity, as a general statement. 

With the death of george floyd, depts. around the country are examing the doctrine of qualified immunity for police. The police unions would fight to get an officer re-instated even if they blinded someone on purpose. The city gives in even if the officer has an angry background. Derick Chauvin, who kneeled on George Floyd's neck for almost 20 minutes, had over 15 career complaints against him.


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## rgp (Aug 9, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Yes, rogue police move town to town, despite what department's claim of checking their background from other jobs, sometimes they don't care and hire anyway. The employing dept./insurance co. pays any civil settlements even if the officer is sued in an _individual_ capacity, as a general statement.
> 
> With the death of george floyd, depts. around the country are examing the doctrine of qualified immunity for police. The police unions would fight to get an officer re-instated even if they blinded someone on purpose. The city gives in even if the officer has an angry background. Derick Chauvin, who kneeled on George Floyd's neck for almost 20 minutes, had over 15 career complaints against him.



 Oh, so now it's almost 20 minutes ??? It started out @ just over 7 [seven] minutes, then it went to near 9 [nine] ......... now it's near 20 [twenty] minutes ??     That's bullshit !


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## ohioboy (Aug 9, 2021)

rgp said:


> Oh, so now it's almost 20 minutes ??? It started out @ just over 7 [seven] minutes, then it went to near 9 [nine] ......... now it's near 20 [twenty] minutes ??     That's bullshit !


Oh shut up jack, what the hell is wrong with you! I typed the wrong time, so freaking what.


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