# A tale of two mothers



## Warrigal (Apr 14, 2016)

In the Australian news recently are two mothers under arrest.

One was arrested in Beirut in a botched attempt to snatch her children away from their paternal grandmother. The attempt was sponsored by an Australian TV crew (Sixty Minutes) and was being filmed complete with a female reporter/journalist, and camera and sound operators. The snatch involved bundling the children roughly into a car, leaving the grandmother knocked to the ground. 

The Lebanese authorities soon had all five of them under arrest and they have been banged up in gaol ever since while the authorities decide the most appropriate charges to lay on them. It is likely that the mother will not be charged and the court had ordered that she and her husband come to some agreement about the children, but the news crew and the extractor are facing serious charges that may involve prison. Kidnapping has been ruled out because there was no demand for money.

Here is a run down on this case that is still current http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/04/14/what-we-know-about-60-minutes-case-beirut

The other case involves a mother of a toddler who claimed that her baby was snatched from her stroller while walking in the park. She said she was knocked down and the baby was carried off by a shoeless man from Africa who smelled of alcohol. A search began immediately but the little girl's body was found the next morning in a nearby creek.

Police used CCTV to look for the man but suspicion fell on the mother who was taken to the police station for questioning. She admitted smothering her baby. It appears that there is some history of family violence in the home where the mother and her baby were staying.

http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/...more-details-emerging-baby-sanaya-murder-case

Two very different stories but both very sad.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 14, 2016)

Some people shouldn't be mothers and some men shouldn't be fathers.  Parenting isn't for everybody...


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## vickyNightowl (Apr 14, 2016)

The first story,I'm trying to read up on it,how did the kids get where they are in the first place?

The second story just sickens me.


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## vickyNightowl (Apr 14, 2016)

So,apparently the mother had consented to a three week holiday but he skyped her when they arrived in Lebanon telling her they are not going back. 
What an A hole,
The poor mom was desparate.
Reminds me of 'Not without my Daughter"


One mom does a desparate thing to get her kids back and another is the total oposite.


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## fureverywhere (Apr 14, 2016)

Reminds me of 'Not without my Daughter"

Exactly, the first thing that came to mind. I've read other books on the same topic. It's bad enough how custody cases can fall apart in the US. But the mistake many women make is falling in love with someone from countries like Lebanon or the UAE. You might have a wonderful marriage and beautiful children. But if the relationship crumbles the woman has no rights at all. The father can flee with the kids and be protected by the laws of his country. The only choice left is to snatch them back and basically go into hiding.


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## JustQuinn (Apr 14, 2016)

In the first  case  the mother has  been  granted  custody under Australian law.  When the  father  got  to  Lebanon  he  was  granted  custody under  Lebanese  law.   Sounds  like  it is a  case  for  both  countries  to  thrash out  under International  law. (Who trumps  who)
as  for the  second  case....hard for me to comprehend


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## Warrigal (Apr 14, 2016)

More background to the Beirut case.



> *60 Minutes: Mother pleads with husband to drop Lebanon child abduction charges in exchange for custody*
> 
> By Middle East correspondent Matt Brown
> 
> ...



Something that is overlooked is that Tara Brown is also a mother and male members of the team have children too. There could be more than two children deprived of a parent as a result of this reckless endeavour. If the TV crew had not been involved Ms Faulkner might have had a better chance of claiming her children through the Lebanese courts.


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## vickyNightowl (Apr 15, 2016)

JustQuinn said:


> In the first  case  the mother has  been  granted  custody under Australian law.  When the  father  got  to  Lebanon  he  was  granted  custody under  Lebanese  law.   Sounds  like  it is a  case  for  both  countries  to  thrash out  under International  law. (Who trumps  who)
> as  for the  second  case....hard for me to comprehend




Australian law,Lebanese law,the father took the kids to Lebanon by lying to the mother.

What kind of person does that? Takes away the kids from their mother.

I can't imagine how she felt and how desparate she was.
I don't trust him or what he says.he was wrong what he did.


Warrigal,I agree that more kids are going to pay the consequenses.
I don't know though if herr chances are better through Lebanese court.


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## Warrigal (Apr 15, 2016)

> The Australian Family Court ruling, granted on December 15, even allowed Australian police or agents appointed by Ms Faulkner to get her children back — but she did not register it in Lebanon.
> 
> Ms Faulkner's Lebanese lawyer Ghassan Moghabghab said: "It's a very strong judgement and we are sorry that it's not being used. Especially when you read the articles of the judgement, it was obviously 100 per cent to her favour."



Because of cases like this in the past Australia and Lebanon have some sort of agreement recognising each others custody judgements.
The mother has been badly advised by the TV people. No country is going to look kindly on a snatch of infants in an attempt to claim custody.


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## vickyNightowl (Apr 15, 2016)

Warrigal said:


> Because of cases like this in the past Australia and Lebanon have some sort of agreement recognising each others custody judgements.
> The mother has been badly advised by the TV people. No country is going to look kindly on a snatch of infants in an attempt to claim custody.



Warrigal,this went over my head,thanks for posting it again.

What a mess ,bad for the kids,and her.


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## Warrigal (Apr 21, 2016)

After nearly two weeks in a Beirut gaol the mother and the current affairs news team have been released. A bucket of money has been paid to the father by the TV station to have the charges dropped. The extraction team are still behind bars.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-20/60-minutes-charges-dropped-in-child-abduction-case/7343636


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## JustQuinn (Apr 21, 2016)

so the wife was granted  custody of these  Australian born children.....and the  husband  lies to her  (I  want to  take them on a holiday)  to  get them  out  of Australia......then the  Australian Gov  does nothing  to  retrieve  these  Australian  citizens......and  whe the  wife  tries  to  get her  children  back....she ends up in jail....and  the husband is  paid  lots of money  to  drop  charges  against her.
So he ends up with  his  children  and lots of  money...and the  Australian Government does nothing.   I am very angry


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## Warrigal (Apr 21, 2016)

There is nothing the government can do other than provide consular support for the Australian citizens who get into trouble with the law in foreign countries.

Looking realistically, the mother was much too trusting. Her husband was not an Australian citizen and she allowed the children to be entered onto his passport. Did she know nothing about Lebanese society and culture? 

She should have obtained good legal advice here because her Australian custody judgement could have been registered in Lebanon where it would have been recognised, giving her a much better chance of recovering the children.

A forceful abduction of two young children from a public place left our government with very few options. What do you suggest? Trade sanctions? Expulsion of Lebanese diplomats? All they can do is make behind the scenes representations on behalf of the mother and the film crew. Lebanese law is not British law.

I am angry at 60 Minutes for placing ratings over the welfare of a fractured family. In the long run, our family court would be asking the question "What is the best thing for the children in this case?" I haven't actually heard this question at all in the context of this custody dispute.


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## JustQuinn (Apr 21, 2016)

do we not  have  an  extradition treaty  with  lebanon?   She was  granted  Legal  custody  in the  country of their  birth...are you  saying that  because  she  was  naive  in not  registering  her  custody  agreement in Lebanon  her  children  should continue to be  denied  their legal  right  to  return  to their  home?   that makes them the victims!
I . of  course  am  angy  at  60 Minutes  for  using this  situation  in an  attempt  to  grab  ratings  and  as you  know  from the  media   that has  backfired  with little  sympathy for the  crew  who  were  also  jailed.


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## JustQuinn (Apr 21, 2016)

I think   that  Government  should have  stepped in BEFORE  she  was  co erced into  trying this crazy  abduction attempt.


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## Ralphy1 (Apr 22, 2016)

JustQuinn,  Mrs. Dumbfart still loves you...


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## Warrigal (Apr 22, 2016)

JustQuinn said:


> do we not  have  an  extradition treaty  with  lebanon?   She was  granted  Legal  custody  in the  country of their  birth...are you  saying that  because  she  was  naive  in not  registering  her  custody  agreement in Lebanon  her  children  should continue to be  denied  their legal  right  to  return  to their  home?   that makes them the victims!
> I . of  course  am  angy  at  60 Minutes  for  using this  situation  in an  attempt  to  grab  ratings  and  as you  know  from the  media   that has  backfired  with little  sympathy for the  crew  who  were  also  jailed.



Apparently we do have a treaty but this clause makes it rather useless.
Article III
Either Government may, in its absolute discretion, refuse to deliver up its own subjects to the other Government.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/other/dfat/treaties/1901/68.html



> I think   that  Government  should have  stepped in BEFORE  she  was  coerced into  trying this crazy  abduction attempt.



Was she coerced or did she approach CH 9 to finance an abduction. We now know who paid for the snatch, but who commissioned it? Ch 9 or the mother?
Was any attempt made to contact the government asking for help? I doubt that there was because the Australian custody order was never registered with the Lebanese courts and I reckon that would have been the first advice that a government department would hand out.

Someone put the bit between the teeth and charged ahead recklessly and I very much doubt that anyone in the government was even aware of the abduction.


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## JustQuinn (Apr 22, 2016)

Warrigal  I am not  suggesting that  our  Gov  was  aware  of the  abduction...and we dont know  as  yet  who  approached  whom.  The  children  will  grow  up  without  their  mother  because of  the  fathers  dishonesty...meanwhile  he  banks a  big  fat  cheque.
Ralphy   I am  glad  that  Mrs  Dumbfart  still loves  me....does  that hold  true  for the  rest of the  gang??How is  Lisa  tracking these  days? (does she get out  much?)I  miss you , you old  curmudgeon...Baile  sends  Kisses  and  slurps  as  do  I  !!


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## Warrigal (Apr 22, 2016)

Yes JustQuinn, it is a real mess.

I just hope that the kids are able to grow up with minimal emotional damage.


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