# Very interesting video - Why the US is leaving Afghanistan



## Murrmurr (Jul 29, 2021)

The US plans to pull out of Afghanistan on Sept 11th. This video asks why, and poses the most likely answers.
It's 30 minutes long, but the events, timelines and graphics are easy to understand and very interesting. The 1/2 hour passes quickly.


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## Granny B. (Jul 30, 2021)

Interesting viewpoint. The timeline graphic really helps. That whole situation sure is a mess. I only got half way through, it's late and I'm too tired to watch the rest.  Will finish tomorrow.


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## Don M. (Jul 30, 2021)

This is an Excellent video, showing the history of this mess....much of which in unknown to most of our people.  To me, it's a tossup between the Afghan and Vietnam wars, as to which is/was the biggest waste of American lives and resources.  

So long as the Middle East and SE Asia are governed by conflicts between various religious "ideologies", we are wasting our time and energy in trying to make a difference in those regions.  The Only positive was the killing of Bin Laden. 

Let those people sort out what kind of life they want to lead, and leave us out of their "conflicts"....IMO.


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## Irwin (Jul 30, 2021)

It was a waste of trillions of dollars and countless lives. Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, and Korea were all unwinnable wars, as will be our war with Iran when that time comes, yet we seem to be incapable of learning from history. Bleh.


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## Murrmurr (Jul 30, 2021)

Don M. said:


> So long as the Middle East and SE Asia are governed by* conflicts between various religious "ideologies"*, we are wasting our time and energy in trying to make a difference in those regions.  The Only positive was the killing of Bin Laden.
> 
> Let those people sort out what kind of life they want to lead, and leave us out of their "conflicts"....IMO.


I totally agree. I wondered if we understood that conflict going in, but I doubt we were even looking at the religious aspects. Very similar to the Lawrence of Arabia situation.


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## Tish (Jul 30, 2021)

It is a very interesting point of view but I honestly can't believe that the Taliban is having a change of heart and want to lead a peaceful life. It is their problem and their war and we need to butt out and get the hell out of there.


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## fuzzybuddy (Aug 4, 2021)

The US was happy to arm and fund religious fanatics in Afghanistan when they were fighting the Soviet Union. But then, when the USSR pulled out, those same forces the Americans armed and funded, turned on the US to remove all foreign intervention, the US and the USSR switched seats.. And as a long as the US kept the gravy train of weapons, and aid going, there was always going to be a war in Afghanistan.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 4, 2021)

Tish said:


> It is a very interesting point of view but* I honestly can't believe that the Taliban is having a change of heart* and want to lead a peaceful life. It is their problem and their war and we need to butt out and get the hell out of there.


Of course not. I do believe they want a peaceful life, but under their own terms, and their terms are from fundamentalist Islam and Sharia Law.

I had 2 Afghani brothers on my work crew years ago. They came to the US with their families to escape the Taliban. They told me the Taliban ordered all Afghan families to hang a white cloth on their roof after a daughter in the family had her first menstrual period. She would then be taken by the Taliban and married to a soldier. If she was particularly pretty, she would be given to an officer. The younger brother's daughter was "of age", so they did what they had to do to come to the US. It took them almost a year. They went to Turkey first, if I remember right, then to Syria, then Lebanon, then here. (I mighty have the wrong order..until "here")


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## Tish (Aug 4, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Of course not. I do believe they want a peaceful life, but under their own terms, and their terms are from fundamentalist Islam and Sharia Law.
> 
> I had 2 Afghani brothers on my work crew years ago. They came to the US with their families to escape the Taliban. They told me the Taliban ordered all Afghan families to hang a white cloth on their roof after a daughter in the family had her first menstrual period. She would then be taken by the Taliban and married to a soldier. If she was particularly pretty, she would be given to an officer. The younger brother's daughter was "of age", so they did what they had to do to come to the US. It took them almost a year. They went to Turkey first, if I remember right, then to Syria, then Lebanon, then here. (I mighty have the wrong order..until "here")


Wow, that is absolutely dreadful, so happy those brothers made their way to the US.
As a woman I thank God I was born in a western country, my heart breaks for all those women that have to suffer under Sharia law.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 4, 2021)

Tish said:


> Wow, that is absolutely dreadful, so happy those brothers made their way to the US.
> As a woman I thank God I was born in a western country, my heart breaks for all those women that have to suffer under Sharia law.


The man's name was Ghulam, and his family was very happy in the US (still are, I'm sure). They got to practice their religion and live as they pleased without having to live in fear every single day. Life was even better than they expected, he said.


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## Irwin (Aug 4, 2021)

Our little excursion into Afghanistan is the reason for all the refugees fleeing Afghanistan to America and other not-quite-so-religious nations in the world. One would think after experiencing all the damage caused by their religion that they'd abandon their practices, but that's not happening. They're not trying to assimilate. They're keeping up their practices and their religious attire and spreading their oppressive and misogynistic dogma to other countries. Is it any wonder many people in the welcoming countries don't want them?


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## Murrmurr (Aug 4, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Our little excursion into Afghanistan is the reason for all the refugees fleeing Afghanistan to America and other not-quite-so-religious nations in the world. One would think after experiencing all the damage caused by their religion that they'd abandon their practices, but that's not happening. They're not trying to assimilate. They're keeping up their practices and their religious attire and spreading their oppressive and misogynistic dogma to other countries. Is it any wonder many people in the welcoming countries don't want them?


The Taliban was already oppressing the Afghan people before we got there. The issue was indeed religion. Afghans were listening to "western" music and not wearing the fundamentalist Islamic attire. The Taliban was and is insisting Afghans adhere strictly to the fundamental religious laws of Islam and Sharia as opposed to any kind of "modernized" Islam. I heard this from an Afghani. He said his community was happy when the US went in, but the US disappointed them. Progress was extremely slow, Americans soldiers were extremely confused, lots of innocent people died. They were better off in some ways and much worse off in others. And they knew early on that the American forces were going about things all wrong and making grave mistakes. They lost hope of ever being free of the Taliban.


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## Nathan (Aug 4, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Why the US is leaving Afghanistan


My thoughts would be:  WHY did we spend 20 years there, doing WHAT exactly?     Are these un-winnable wars just WELFARE for defense contractors?   Sacrificing the lives of our troops and lives of untold thousands of foreign nationals to enrich the coffers of corporate interests???
Let's act all patriotic, wave the flag a bit and tell me it was all f-n worth it!!!


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## Irwin (Aug 4, 2021)

We invaded two countries and killed millions of people at a cost of more than four trillion dollars just to try to get one man. That must have done wonders for Bin Laden's ego!


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## Irwin (Aug 4, 2021)

Nathan said:


> My thoughts would be:  WHY did we spend 20 years there, doing WHAT exactly?     Are these un-winnable wars just WELFARE for defense contractors?   Sacrificing the lives of our troops and lives of untold thousands of foreign nationals to enrich the coffers of corporate interests???
> Let's act all patriotic, wave the flag a bit and tell me it was all f-n worth it!!!


That's probably a big part of it. There's a lot of money to be made from wars. I worked for two defense contractors during my career. My first project back in the '90s was worth three billion dollars and the second was worth a billion. CEOs were paid handsomely as were engineers and all the union people who built the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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## fmdog44 (Aug 4, 2021)

Some wars are fought in order to ready their troops for further engagement or future wars. This was often said why in part, we went to Iraq knowing Iran was a real threat as was radical Muslim terror groups. True or false? Who can say?


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## Murrmurr (Aug 4, 2021)

Nathan said:


> My thoughts would be:  WHY did we spend 20 years there, doing WHAT exactly?     Are these un-winnable wars just WELFARE for defense contractors?   Sacrificing the lives of our troops and lives of untold thousands of foreign nationals to enrich the coffers of corporate interests???
> Let's act all patriotic, wave the flag a bit and tell me it was all f-n worth it!!!


At best, it appears that our operations were not entirely about "sympathy and assistance for the downtrodden" that we portrayed as the impetus for our intervention.

At worst, we actually didn't care about the downtrodden. But I don't think that's the case. I think we cared, but we were also trying to manipulate the Afghan gov't and military forces to our advantage. That was a disastrous failure. We're now watching the Taliban have secret meetings with the CCP. It's possible we're hoping the Taliban's main interest in China is "freeing" the Islamic/Muslim population currently in CCP "re-education" camps.


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## Murrmurr (Aug 4, 2021)

Nathan said:


> My thoughts would be:  WHY did we spend 20 years there, doing WHAT exactly?     Are these un-winnable wars just WELFARE for defense contractors?   Sacrificing the lives of our troops and lives of untold thousands of foreign nationals to enrich the coffers of corporate interests???
> Let's act all patriotic, wave the flag a bit and tell me it was all f-n worth it!!!


I meant to add, Nathan; the US will not actually completely leave Afghanistan in the foreseeable future. We're still there, we've simply "re-positioned" - teaching, training, organizing. A few of our best high-ranks are there, and we are exercising tremendous power and authority, primarily through our Air Force.

True, the US has shifted its focus to the Indio-Pacific region, but Afghanistan is strategically crucial real estate. I don't see us "officially" pulling out any time soon.


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