# It Doesn't Take Two Incomes



## Lon (Dec 16, 2014)

It irritates me when I hear someone say "it takes two incomes to live a decent life these days". Bull---t. It takes two incomes if you want to live as well as someone making much more money than yourself. If a wife wants to be a stay home mom and raise the kids, do it. Just adjust your housing, auto and spending costs to the one income. Once you become adjusted to the two income scenario there is no turning back, your debt load by then will not allow it.


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## oakapple (Dec 16, 2014)

I agree with what you said completely Lon.


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## Cookie (Dec 16, 2014)

It depends on the income - if you have a very small income and want to feed, clothe and house your family on that (especially if you are a single woman with no child support) forget about things like a car, furniture, decent food and clothing (even at discount prices) or vacations.  So my experience has been that two incomes are necessary for many working people just to survive.


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## rkunsaw (Dec 16, 2014)

I agree with cookie. Prices for necessary things such as food and clothing don't go down because you have less  money to spend. You can only adjust your standard of living so much and still live a decent life  without having to worry about being able to have enough food to last until payday.


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## AprilT (Dec 16, 2014)

I'd really like to know what income this is in what local in these economic times we're speaking of.  Some do live beyond their means, but some are just trying to meet minimum living goals and still have to have either a two income family or at the very least one working two to three jobs.  Some just want to live in a reasonable safe neighborhood and that pumps their basic mortgage or rent up substantially.  I'm thinking in another year, I might have to move closer to the hood myself considering the rates at which the rents in my area have increased some 30% since I've moved to the area.  I've seen families pushed out onto the street by landlords that raised their rents from $1200 to $3000 on the signing for their next lease.  Because the market in my area they can demand such and more.


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## LogicsHere (Dec 16, 2014)

Lon, I tend to disagree with you somewhat. It generally depends upon where you live as to whether can or can't live on one income.  Unless one is making big bucks in NY/NJ and many areas of the West Coast, one salary won't cut it. I.E. A house in Westchester County is $350,000 easy and up and taxes on that another $10-15000 or more. Produce is 3 times the price of produce in Florida and gas has .40 more sales tax than most of the U.S. states. Rents also are way out of range. You cannot rent an apartment or pay a mortgage on a house and keep other bills paid if your top salary is $35,000 or less. A one-bedroom apartment goes for $1400 a month prox. Take that add  a wife and a baby and see how far that gets you.


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## Son_of_Perdition (Dec 16, 2014)

Since everyone told me that I was the breadwinner, I had this illusion that I was expected to provide for my family.  I never asked my wife to go to work, it was her decision.  She worked minimal wage jobs, never making more than $12 hourly.  She worked until 62.  I now look back and realize that her small income bought many gifts, food, gas, coats, school expenses, insurances,,,etc.  I hate to think where we would have been if she didn't have that income and spend it willingly to maintain our so called middle income lifestyle.  She gets a small SS check that goes towards supplementing my SS/Pension.  I thank her for her sacrifices whenever I remember, and that it took the two of us to survive.


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## QuickSilver (Dec 16, 2014)

Cookie said:


> It depends on the income - if you have a very small income and want to feed, clothe and house your family on that (especially if you are a single woman with no child support) forget about things like a car, furniture, decent food and clothing (even at discount prices) or vacations.  So my experience has been that two incomes are necessary for many working people just to survive.



Heck... sometimes it takes  3 or 4 incomes.. with both mom or  dad or both working two minimum wage jobs..  I agree it takes away for family time, but since there seems to be no appetite in Washington for increasing the minimum wage, this is reality for many of the working poor.   Kids are creatures of habit... they get into the habit of needing to be fed, housed and clothed.


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## Cookie (Dec 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Heck... sometimes it takes  3 or 4 incomes.. with both mom or  dad or both working two minimum wage jobs..  I agree it takes away for family time, but since there seems to be no appetite in Washington for increasing the minimum wage, this is reality for many of the working poor.   Kids are creatures of habit... they get into the habit of needing to be fed, housed and clothed.



Well said, QS - One would have to be a mathematical genius to calculate a budget in the current market for the bare necessities of life like food, shelter, and clothes for a family of 4 on a very limited income.  Not everyone comes from the advantaged class.


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## QuickSilver (Dec 16, 2014)

Cookie said:


> Well said, QS - One would have to be a mathematical genius to calculate a budget in the current market for the bare necessities of life like food, shelter, and clothes for a family of 4 on a very limited income.  Not everyone comes from the advantaged class.



 So many people don't realize they were born on third base and have convinced themselves they hit a triple.   Problem is, so many folks weren't even born in the stadium parking lot,  let alone out on the field.


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## Cookie (Dec 16, 2014)

More like listening to the game on the car radio, around the block from the stadium - true story.


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## Capt Lightning (Dec 16, 2014)

Let me suggest that the other partner might actually want to work and contribute to the household income - especially when any children have grown.


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## QuickSilver (Dec 16, 2014)

Capt Lightning said:


> Let me suggest that the other partner might actually want to work and contribute to the household income - especially when any children have grown.



or.... let's just get real crazy for a minute....  and say that perhaps the "other partner" may have a career that is rewarding and perhaps may make more money than the spouse.


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## AprilT (Dec 16, 2014)

Capt Lightning said:


> Let me suggest that the other partner might actually want to work and contribute to the household income - especially when any children have grown.





QuickSilver said:


> or.... let's just get real crazy for a minute....  and say that perhaps the "other partner" may have a career that is rewarding and perhaps may make more money than the spouse.



So true, I worked when my ex made more than enough to pay and he did, his choice, all the home related bills, but, I certainly didn't spend day and night to work to get a degree so I could sit at home and twiddle my fingers.

I did pay my own car note insurance, my daughter and my extras.


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## QuickSilver (Dec 16, 2014)

I'm afraid that old notions die hard..  that being the notion that the income or career of the man is much more important than the woman's.   It's seems to be generally accepted that the woman's income is unnecessary and only for the extras, and that if she works, she is selfish.


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## AprilT (Dec 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I'm afraid that old notions die hard..  that being the notion that the income or career of the man is much more important than the woman's.   It's seems to be generally accepted that the woman's income is unnecessary and only for the extras, and that if she works, she is selfish.




I'm happy to say, I don't agree, maybe 20 years ago that was still true to some degree when I was first married, but not with my daughter's generation and beyond, it is only true in a very smaller population of this country and many others thankfully.  But I have no problem with whomever makes the most contributes the largest portion to the household if that difference is substantial and all are in agreement.  Be it the woman or the man with the higher income.  I know that was the case with my sisters; they were the higher earners based on their education at that time..


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## QuickSilver (Dec 16, 2014)

AprilT said:


> I'm happy to say, I don't agree, maybe 20 years ago that was still true to some degree when I was first married, but not with my daughter's generation and beyond, it is only true in a very smaller population of this country and many others thankfully.  But I have no problem with whomever makes the most contributes the largest portion to the household if that difference is substantial and all are in agreement.



I have had the larger income in my family for the last 30 years..  However, no one would have ever suggested that my husbands income was unnecessary and only for the extras.  He still was considered the breadwinner, and I was selfish for neglecting my kids.


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## AprilT (Dec 16, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> I have had the larger income in my family for the last 30 years..  However, no one would have ever suggested that my husbands income was unnecessary and only for the extras.  He still was considered the breadwinner, and I was selfish for neglecting my kids.




Well a lot of thinking from 30 years ago would be considered antiquated and it's good we are to a larger degree progressing from that way of thinking, though many are pining for the old days and would like to see women put back in their place so to speak.  We've come a ways and just need to keep looking forward and doing what we can to keep those that feel insecure about their own inabilities from hindering our individual and group progress for the benefit of all genders.


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## AprilT (Dec 16, 2014)

I would like to add, though, I'm all for the progress we've all gained in many areas, I have great respect for men or women that choose traditional roles for themselves if that's what they want, but don't feel obligated if they see it as the best way for them to raise their family, it can work if the income allows for the that and all parties are happy with that arrangement and both people see what they are doing as a partnership.  But if a D/s arrangement works and their happy, I'm still not mad at them.


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## Cookie (Dec 16, 2014)

The traditional roles of man/husband as the breadwinner and the woman/wife staying home with the kids is very much outdated in my opinion, and went out with wringer washing machines. Although many women still maintain the role of housewife out of necessity, while the kids are small, the roles can be reversed. I'm not sure who these people are who believe that women's income is unnecessary or insignificant since woman have been getting degrees for decades and have become high income professionals - doctors, lawyers, CEOs, etc.  Even women who are lower on the ladder want to do interesting work and be out there in the world, rather than doing the menial housekeeping chores. In which case two incomes, although maybe not necessary for survival, become a healthy bi-product of the growing economic equality of the sexes.


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## AprilT (Dec 16, 2014)

Cookie said:


> The traditional roles of man/husband as the breadwinner and the woman/wife staying home with the kids is very much outdated in my opinion, and went out with wringer washing machines. Although many women still maintain the role of housewife out of necessity, while the kids are small, the roles can be reversed. I'm not sure who these people are who believe that women's income is unnecessary or insignificant since woman have been getting degrees for decades and have become high income professionals - doctors, lawyers, CEOs, etc.  Even women who are lower on the ladder want to do interesting work and be out there in the world, rather than doing the menial housekeeping chores. In which case two incomes, although maybe not necessary for survival, become a healthy bi-product of the growing economic equality of the sexes.



Very true, I personally only run into that rare couple the traditional arrangement, it happens, but it's not the norm these days, but at the same time, I don't look down on women that choose this lifestyle, but, I've yet to meet one that didn't at the very least have a side business they run from home, sometimes the hubby ending up giving up his regular job because her little side project takes off to a point she needs to hire him to help operate the business.  

But either way, whatever works for the individual couple is great as long as no one is being marginalized.


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## Cookie (Dec 16, 2014)

I had often wished, while I was a working single mom that I was that women who stayed home with the kids and house while my husband was out earning the living and give a lot of credit to women who have the role of homemaker - it takes a lot of skill and intelligence to run a home and take care of children. I agree, it is a good place to start a small business too. Times have changed, though, and women and men have so many more options and opportunities.


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## AprilT (Dec 16, 2014)

Well, when I was little till sometime into my 20s, I had the fairytale dream of white picket fence planted in my head, I wasn't ambitious, but I also expected I'd probably work in some capacity, but in my heart all I wanted was the husband to be a housewife, who lived to make sure all in the family were well cared for, to raise a bunch of happy little kids.  Nauseating to many I know, but, that was my dream back before I actually married.  By the time my daughter was four, I knew I wanted just one kid. Snip, snip.


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## Cookie (Dec 16, 2014)

To me the white picket fence is a nice metaphor for safety and security - I think we all want that and will do whatever we need to get that.


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## ronaldj (Dec 16, 2014)

my  wife was a stay at home mother and  worked harder than I ever dreamed of hanging drywall....two incomes that is a joke it takes just enough and how much is that you must decide.....we never made what is considered the norm and we all yes five children .......lived wonderful lives.....my son's both work one has a wife who stays home...our three daughters two work out one works at home ....we raised our own meat, large garden had goats and milk cow....never had payments larger than unemployment....drove an old car, still do...paid cash for what we needed still do


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## QuickSilver (Dec 16, 2014)

Not everyone can raise their own meat and own cows and goats for milk, or tend a large garden to feed their families... can they?


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## chic (Dec 16, 2014)

Cookie said:


> It depends on the income - if you have a very small income and want to feed, clothe and house your family on that (especially if you are a single woman with no child support) forget about things like a car, furniture, decent food and clothing (even at discount prices) or vacations. So my experience has been that two incomes are necessary for many working people just to survive.



I agree. Kids have needs and all the electronic devices they need just to get through the day are very costly. The cost of a good education is astronomical. Medical and dental insurance finish the picture. Kids are only covered on a parents plan for so long. Does your child drive. Good luck with paying for car insurance for a new teenage driver if you live on one income. Wanna live in a decent home in a decent neighborhood? That'll cost ya too. Two incomes might just help a family of four to keep there heads above water if they never get sick and don't take vacations.


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## ronaldj (Dec 16, 2014)

I will add that my five kids went to a private school which was our largest bill...no everyone cannot raise their own food, but you do not need all the latest gadgets you will find and get what you need if you try......all five of our children are working and independent  of anyone but themselves they work hard and all five visit several times a month and all love to tell stories about growing up and enjoying life.... they talk to each other regularly on the phone and their children are growing up with tight family ties.....today they all make way more money then I ever dreamed of doing when I was working regular......but they work hard and save up for what they need and they all have nice houses and nice cars and really nice children....


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## Cookie (Dec 16, 2014)

ronaldj said:


> I will add that my five kids went to a private school which was our largest bill...no everyone cannot raise their own food, but you do not need all the latest gadgets you will find and get what you need if you try......all five of our children are working and independent  of anyone but themselves they work hard and all five visit several times a month and all love to tell stories about growing up and enjoying life.... they talk to each other regularly on the phone and their children are growing up with tight family ties.....today they all make way more money then I ever dreamed of doing when I was working regular......but they work hard and save up for what they need and they all have nice houses and nice cars and really nice children....



I'm not sure I understand your point - You have every right to be proud of your family and their upbringing, but are you saying that because your 7 member family subsisted on your single income (of ?? amount) and growing your own food 25 or so years ago, that a similar family should be able to do so in today's economy - minus the gadgets?


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## AprilT (Dec 16, 2014)

Some people live in a bubble many are just trying to pay the basics without all those extravagant extra people see some flaunting all over the place.


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## ronaldj (Dec 16, 2014)

I am saying people waste and want more than they can afford.....I work with them everyday and see them everyday.........every situation is different but in my opinion people could and should take better care of themselves instead of counting on someone else...don't like your job find a different one, don't make enough money get a better job instead of credit cards and borrowing......now I am done I will not change your thinking and you will not change mine....times are and have been tuff I seen it and watched people go through it.....you can either sit on the side of the road and cry or pick yourself up and move on....


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## Cookie (Dec 16, 2014)

The picture is bigger than we can ever imagine.


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## AprilT (Dec 16, 2014)

ronaldj said:


> I am saying people waste and want more than they can afford.....I work with them everyday and see them everyday.........every situation is different but in my opinion people could and should take better care of themselves instead of counting on someone else...don't like your job find a different one, don't make enough money get a better job instead of credit cards and borrowing......now I am done I will not change your thinking and you will not change mine....times are and have been tuff I seen it and watched people go through it.....you can either sit on the side of the road and cry or pick yourself up and move on....



This is true in many cases, I see it all the time as well and argue with friends for their waste when they complain about faulting on a bill, but, I do believe instead of thumping fingers and making like it's all the people all the time, we must remember there's a substantial number of people with legitimate cause and effect situations happening all over the world.  

I could live like a queen knowing what I know today on the income some people make and live pay check to paycheck, but those aren't the people most of us are referring to when we speak of the ones not able to live off of one paycheck.  I'm the first to scream at what I see, ya see the holiday shopping videos and all those tvs and phones people buy that they don't need and can't afford half the time and will go into hock come time to pay the creditors, well yes those folks have no place to complain about not being able to make it on one check.  There's need and there's extras and unnecessary extravagances.


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## ronaldj (Dec 16, 2014)

Son_of_Perdition said:


> Since everyone told me that I was the breadwinner, I had this illusion that I was expected to provide for my family.  I never asked my wife to go to work, it was her decision.  She worked minimal wage jobs, never making more than $12 hourly.  She worked until 62.  I now look back and realize that her small income bought many gifts, food, gas, coats, school expenses, insurances,,,etc.  I hate to think where we would have been if she didn't have that income and spend it willingly to maintain our so called middle income lifestyle.  She gets a small SS check that goes towards supplementing my SS/Pension.  I thank her for her sacrifices whenever I remember, and that it took the two of us to survive.



well said.....


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## Ameriscot (Dec 17, 2014)

How about this scenario: wife (or husband) stays home and raises kids. As is common they get divorced.  The resume or cv of the stay at home person isn't going to have employers knocking their door down when they need to work.
This is not an Ozzie and Harriet world any more.


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## Ralphy1 (Dec 17, 2014)

Society has changed so much that expectations are that most women will work with just a slight pause for delivery...


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## Ken N Tx (Dec 17, 2014)

Click here Retiring Early


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## QuickSilver (Dec 17, 2014)

Ameriscot said:


> How about this scenario: wife (or husband) stays home and raises kids. As is common they get divorced.  The resume or cv of the stay at home person isn't going to have employers knocking their door down when they need to work.
> This is not an Ozzie and Harriet world any more.




Very true.. and she won't be getting a very generous SS check either due to her/his employment history.  45% of hubby's isn't going to pay her bills.


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## oakapple (Dec 17, 2014)

We can't apply the same rules for everyone, but I do know several young couples that with a bit of thought could manage on the one salary while they bring up the children. The thing is they WANT not to have to work [until the children are in school] but say they can't manage, because they still want their holidays/a new kitchen etc. They have got used [as Lon said] to having extra money.Of course there will always be some couples who really do need it, and some women who want to go to work, and that's fine.


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## Butterfly (Dec 17, 2014)

What with the high cost of housing most places today, I'd think that a single wage-earner would have to make a VERY good living to be able to decently support a wife and children on one salary.  Unless you want raise your children in a hovel, which most people do not want to do. 

By decently, I don't mean lavishly, I mean food, clothing, healthcare, etc.


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## Butterfly (Dec 17, 2014)

AND, as someone above pointed out, if one of the parents has stayed home raising children and suddenly finds himself/herself widowed, divorced (or the wage earner ends up disabled or ill) he or she is going to have almost no possibility of finding a decent job.  Especially now when people who are way overqualified for jobs end up taking them because that's all they can find and that leaves anyone without stellar qualifications and resume sort of out of luck.  Especially if the one who is left is a bit older.  This is not a scenario I'd take a chance on.


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