# Do you believe in an afterlife? If so what is your beliefs as to what happens when you die?



## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 10, 2016)

Since y'all know that I call God my Father and Jesus Christ my Redeemer and Savior....then most of you will know that I believe in a very real heaven and hell. But many people have other beliefs and to them their beliefs are just as real to them as mine are to me. So I am interested in knowing your beliefs and I hope y'all will share with me.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 10, 2016)

I am of a divided opinion.

My scientific training tells me that once an organic entity dies, that's it. We return to the Earth as a few dollars worth of chemicals and minerals. Lights out.

But my Taoist training tells me that we are energetic individuals - that when we die, since energy cannot be destroyed, it has to go somewhere. Perhaps something as simple as memories in our family and friends, but also possibly ending up in some sort of universal energy web ...


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## fureverywhere (Feb 10, 2016)

But my Taoist training tells me that we are energetic individuals - that when we die, since energy cannot be destroyed, it has to go somewhere. Perhaps something as simple as memories in our family and friends, but also possibly ending up in some sort of universal energy web ...

I'm not a Christian so I go with the above. I do believe in spirits, not that you can see them, but they exist. I've told the story before about my sister in law's funeral. The priest didn't know her in life and kept mispronouncing her name. After like the twentieth time he said it wrong, a wreath crashed down onto the alter. You tell me...

I was three months pregnant when my mother passed on. That girl was a firecracker combination of me and her grandmother. Could almost hear my Mom chuckling " I told you that someday you'd have a kid just like you...don't turn your back on her...". Definitely spirits out there.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 10, 2016)

fureverywhere said:


> Definitely spirits out there.



Oh, I know - I've both seen and felt them. But it's like having a Near-Death Experience - you can't really explain it, and no one would believe you anyway.


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## Lon (Feb 10, 2016)

I do not believe in any kind of after life. It's not logical.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 10, 2016)

I believe in energy. I think each individual is born with their own spark of energy. Where that energy goes after death I haven't a clue.  Does it return ? Maybe. Is it reborn? Maybe. Does it linger or live in another dimension? Maybe.
Is there a deity? Maybe. Is there only one deity? I have no idea. Maybe there are many. I've had people tell me ' If there were more than one the world would be in chaos' my answer to that is .."look around". 
I believe that many of the religions of the world/belief systems/ man-god deities could have sprung up through ancient folklore for different possible reasons. Possibly Alien encounters, possibly schizophrenia, or epilepsy. Maybe mushrooms. I did have a roommate knock holes all over the house once trying to get rid of "that little green bastard".  I often think the movie 'Stargate' may have been right on the money. Many times travelers with superior technology have been taken for 'gods'. We do have pyramids all over the planet and many other unexplainable  things. I've studied the Bible a bit. I've studied the Quran a bit. I've researched into how both books were compiled and who actually wrote them. An interesting thing is what the quotation marks and the words " attributed to" mean. Anyway, in his day Muhammad did set forth laws that prohibited men from selling their wives ( they had been free to do so before) . He encouraged freeing slaves as a penance. He gave women the right to work, own property, and vote. He forbade animal abuse, slave abuse, abuse of women, elderly, children.. He came into a very harsh harsh world and gave relief to many downtrodden people. In his time men were permitted unlimited number of wives. They bought and sold women like cattle. He did limit them to 4, and they couldn't sell them when they got bored anymore. I think where the Muslims got bound to live in the past was the Hadiths and not so much the Quran. And yeah there's the cutting hands off thing not so cool, but the Bible is full of not so cool punishments as well. I used to say I lived by 'the code of Hammurabi'  just because I think the name Hammurabi is fun to say. BUT the Babylonians were there with a chiseled law first  Anyway.. what irks me is the ' My God's better than your God' stuff. And fanaticism coming from a believer in a God or a person who believes in no God is something that is a big old turn off for me. Religion has been used as an excuse to war and plunder by evil men manipulating the gullible so long. It's the oldest trick in the book. Keeps on a tickin though [I came back to edit and add that I do pray. I pray to ' The Kind Guides of the Universe If You're Listening'. It's more of a comfort/relaxing thing for me]
] I'm not concerned with the beliefs of others until they try to control my mind and my space. Then I feel like this clip of Jackie ..


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## Falcon (Feb 10, 2016)

No I don't.  When you're dead, YOU'RE DEAD !! 

"GOD" didn't make man;  MAN made "God".


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## SeaBreeze (Feb 10, 2016)

It's a nice thought, comforting for people on earth to think of a pleasant afterlife after they die, but since nobody has ever come back from the dead and actually reported on this, seein' is believin'.  I know that we have a spirit along with our physical body, but I doubt that it lingers very long after we die.  I've lost many beloved family members over the years, and welcomed some interaction with them after they died, but that never happened.  If it does some day, it will change my mind.  I always try to keep an open mind with these things, but I'm in my sixties now and haven't yet been convinced of life after death.


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## FazeFour (Feb 10, 2016)

I don't believe in a heaven or hell, but I do think that consciousness has its own *life* (for lack of a better word), and that it may be eternal. I have seen a person who died. I saw only his hair and his legs at first - his lap, actually - as he squatted down beside me. It was a curious and rather chilling sight. Then I saw his arms as he embraced me. I couldn't _feel_ his arms, but saw them, and I felt comforted. I sensed very strongly that it was my brother-in-law, who had died of a drug overdose about 3 months earlier. He no sooner embraced me then I fell asleep. Had I fallen asleep already, and dreamed this? It's possible, but I don't think so. I remember being awake, because I was crying. And I didn't grieve his death. We were friendly, but not close.

I can't say I have a strong opinion on the matter, but, especially after that incident, I remain open-minded regarding afterlife.


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## Shalimar (Feb 10, 2016)

I have seen some interesting things. I also have a memory dating back to childhood I believe may be a piece of a former life. Logic dictates I don't know, empathy believes in spirits/consciousness, reincarnation. I know my consciousness was briefly 

sucked into a tree, we touched, and then it threw me out. Daytime, perfectly sober. Very cool, very slow entity, sentient ? Not as we brief beings are, no explanation, it just was.


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## Shalimar (Feb 10, 2016)

If there is a hell, it is here, many of us have experienced it, often through no fault of our own. There is great love here also. Heaven enough for me.


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 10, 2016)

Does anybody believe in reincarnation? I remember reading somewhere that who ever was supposed to be in charge of our lives kept making you come back over and over again until you got whatever it was you were supposed to get right the first time...right. And I also read that others believe you come back not just as the same person in another time or even a different person, but also you can come back as animals, etc.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 10, 2016)

Babsinbloom65 said:


> Does anybody believe in reincarnation? I remember reading somewhere that who ever was supposed to be in charge of our lives kept making you come back over and over again until you got whatever it was you were supposed to get right the first time...right. And I also read that others believe you come back not just as the same person in another time or even a different person, but also you can come back as animals, etc.


I think it might be possible.


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## Capt Lightning (Feb 10, 2016)

I believe :
1. There are no gods and precious few heroes.
2. When your dead, you're dead.
3. It may be possible to inherit memory from a parent (obviously from before your conception).
4. Self awareness.  Not re-incarnation, but being self aware as another person.


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 10, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> It's a nice thought, comforting for people on earth to think of a pleasant afterlife after they die, but since nobody has ever come back from the dead and actually reported on this, seein' is believin'.  I know that we have a spirit along with our physical body, but I doubt that it lingers very long after we die.  I've lost many beloved family members over the years, and welcomed some interaction with them after they died, but that never happened.  If it does some day, it will change my mind.  I always try to keep an open mind with these things, but I'm in my sixties now and haven't yet been convinced of life after death.



Well nobody but Jesus and many people saw him when he came back to life.  And they also saw him ascend from this earth too. Maybe it would have been easier to believe if we had actually been there when he did those things but there was enough human beings who did see him to convince me even if I wasn't there. And there is enough historical evidence too in my opinion.


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 10, 2016)

FazeFour said:


> I don't believe in a heaven or hell, but I do think that consciousness has its own *life* (for lack of a better word), and that it may be eternal. I have seen a person who died. I saw only his hair and his legs at first - his lap, actually - as he squatted down beside me. It was a curious and rather chilling sight. Then I saw his arms as he embraced me. I couldn't _feel_ his arms, but saw them, and I felt comforted. I sensed very strongly that it was my brother-in-law, who had died of a drug overdose about 3 months earlier. He no sooner embraced me then I fell asleep. Had I fallen asleep already, and dreamed this? It's possible, but I don't think so. I remember being awake, because I was crying. And I didn't grieve his death. We were friendly, but not close.
> 
> I can't say I have a strong opinion on the matter, but, especially after that incident, I remain open-minded regarding afterlife.



I have definitely seen a spirit and it almost scared me to death! It was when I was about 17 years old. I was sleeping in my bed and I woke up to the pages of a magazine being turned and someone sighing. When I opened my eyes at the end of my bed I saw a tall slim shadowy body of a man. I was so scared I wanted to just scream but when I opened my mouth to do that...nothing would come out. I watched him walk over to my chest of drawers and pull open the drawers and sift through the contents like he was looking for something he couldn't find. Then he finished that and came and stood at the end of my bed just looking at me again. Finally my vocal cords unlocked and I said to him: "What do you want?" And as soon as I said that he seemed to slowly go backwards until he faded into the doorway. The minute he was gone I got out of bed and ran out of my room and got in bed with my sister. Later on I saw a picture of my dad (who had died when I was 12) when he was a young man and he was tall and slim just like the spirit in my room that night.

I also saw my Mom's spirit for a very brief moment the night after she died. I was trying to go to sleep on the couch in the livingroom of her mother's suite in our family home and I looked toward the bedroom in which she had passed away. There is a little hallway leading to that room and right in the doorway of that hall was my Mom in spirit form. She just stayed for a brief moment and then was gone....and after that I was able to go right to sleep.


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## Arachne (Feb 10, 2016)

I am  Wiccan Wicca is a religion focused on living. When someone dies, if we  mourn, it is for our loss, for the loss of the person to the world, us,  their family, and for what they could've done. Few Wiccans mourn the  fact that a person has died, only the loss of that person to the Living. As to reincarnation I believe the soul flies apart at death, where it becomes part of the divine  energy of all life, some part of these souls are divided into wisdom  given to the living.


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## Gail.S (Feb 10, 2016)

I don't beleive in God or in an afterlife.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 10, 2016)

Arachne said:


> I am  Wiccan Wicca is a religion focused on living. When someone dies, if we  mourn, it is for our loss, for the loss of the person to the world, us,  their family, and for what they could've done. Few Wiccans mourn the  fact that a person has died, only the loss of that person to the Living. *As to reincarnation I believe the soul flies apart at death, where it becomes part of the divine  energy of all life, some part of these souls are divided into wisdom  given to the living*.



I've always said that Wicca and Taoism share many traits ...


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## Shalimar (Feb 10, 2016)

Yes Babs,I believe in reincarnation. From time to time I have met people I am certain I have 'known' before.


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## Karen99 (Feb 10, 2016)

I believe I am an eternal being.  I believe death is closing one door and opening another.  Heaven will be seeing those I love again and all my pets too.


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## Ameriscot (Feb 10, 2016)

I believe just about anything is possible.  I think everything alive has some kind of spirit.  I highly doubt there is a hell but there could be some kind of heaven.  I think reincarnation is a possibility.  Also as Buddhists believe, rebirth:  http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharmadata/fdd47.htm   It is not the same as reincarnation which came from Hinduism.  

I am most drawn to Buddhism but I studied and practiced Paganism before.  Buddhists do not have the arrogance to say they are the only true way and they are fine with other's beliefs.  You can take the Buddhist practices you find most helpful but still be a Catholic, Jew, Muslim.  Buddhism has no deity. 

When asked what I am I simply say I am unlabeled.


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## Ina (Feb 10, 2016)

I have felt passed souls. I have had four encounters with past souls in my lifetime. The last time was when my youngest son died two years ago.  I had to make the decision to take my son off life support, and I knew what my son wanted, so I knew what I had to do wether I wanted to or not.  As I crawled into Young Michael bed so that I could hold him, I felt my oldest son holding me, (he died in '93), and I felt as if he was letting me know that his brother wouldn't be alone, wherever they are.raying:


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## Ameriscot (Feb 10, 2016)

Ina, that must have been comforting to you in a way.


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## Ina (Feb 10, 2016)

Yes Ameriscot, it make me feel that no matter what we believe there is something that continues.


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## Ruth n Jersey (Feb 10, 2016)

My mom lived with us and I took care of her until the day she died.About 5 months before my Mom passed away she gave me a birthday card with a note that read,thank you for all you have done for me. I love you.I didn't remember at the time where I put that note. The day after she passed my daughter and I went to make arrangements for the funeral. Thinking I wanted some extra cash besides my credit card I reached in a cookie jar that I kept for spare bills and such. The first thing I pulled out was that note. I want to think somehow she was letting me know she was ok. I had a similar occurrence a few months after my Dad passed. I was setting out plants in my vegetable garden. My Dad always helped me with that. I had pie plates on a string to keep the deer away. The day was very,very still yet all of a sudden the pie plates began to move. Again I want to believe my Dad was letting me know he was fine. I want to believe these things happened for a reason, but I'm really not sure.


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## Sassycakes (Feb 10, 2016)

I know some will think I'm crazy but I believe in Heaven and life after death. I also believe heaven can also be a place  where you can be close to those you love  who are still alive. I have had a few experiences that have made me a believer. It's funny that I saw this post today on February 10th. Here is the main reason that convinced me. My Dad passed away 23 yrs ago. When we were staying with him at the Hospital as we were losing him,my niece Lisa threw herself on his bed   and cried "Dear God if you leave my Grandad here I will never ask for a baby again." (she had been trying to get pregnant for 3 years) I got so upset because  I knew my Dad would not have wanted her to stop wanting to have a baby. I pulled her off my Dad and cracked her,telling her grandfather wouldn't want that. 
A few months after my Dad passed and I had a dream. In the dream my Dad told me to tell Lisa a nice little boy is coming her way and tell her 313. In the dream he was with my cousin Jim . Surprisingly  a few months later my niece heard about a girl that worked in a store my niece would go to was  pregnant and wanted to put the baby up for adoption. My niece said if the girl wanted to my niece would adopt the baby.Everything went well and on February 10th the adoption became final. February 10 is my cousin Jim's Birthday.  Jim was in the dream I had with my Dad. When they went to the courtroom they were told to go to room 313. So
now that precious baby will be turning 21 yrs old. So Yes I am a Believer.


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## Bettyann (Feb 10, 2016)

I have had quite a number of interesting experiences surrounded around 'death'... including sitting with dying patients who 'saw' and spoke with loved ones right before they died. If they mentioned a name, I would later ask a surviving relative/friend as to who so and so was... 
I have had contact with people who have passed on. I have come across one person...this was a most fascinating experience... with whom I shared a former lifetime just by talking and getting to know each other and both having these memories...and we were both shocked because several people followed our 'discovery' and were equally stunned when we looked up some 'real' records for 'proof' of this...and FOUND it!
 These stories are WAY too long for me to go into.... plus, I have listened to stories from other people who had interesting experiences with those who had passed on... and you just 'know' and 'can feel' if they are coming from a truthful or fantasy-like place... (if it makes any difference to any of you: I am not a Christian... but am spiritual...and yup, there is a HUGE difference (to me! )


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## Manatee (Feb 10, 2016)

There is no Hell, so the rest is moot.


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## Butterfly (Feb 10, 2016)

I am a Lutheran, and yes, I believe in life after death.


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## Underock1 (Feb 10, 2016)

We are simply insignificant bacteria crawling around on an insignificant whirling spec of flotsam in a vast uncaring universe. Our lives go by in an eye blink. When we're gone we're gone. If our "energy" continues, it doesn't continue as "us". When your brain is gone, you're gone. Sometimes long before the rest of the body, as many caregivers of the elderly well know. All we have is our time here with each other. It behooves us to put away the hate and make it a happy time.


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## Underock1 (Feb 10, 2016)

SeaBreeze said:


> It's a nice thought, comforting for people on earth to think of a pleasant afterlife after they die, but since nobody has ever come back from the dead and actually reported on this, seein' is believin'.  I know that we have a spirit along with our physical body, but I doubt that it lingers very long after we die.  I've lost many beloved family members over the years, and welcomed some interaction with them after they died, but that never happened.  If it does some day, it will change my mind.  I always try to keep an open mind with these things, but I'm in my sixties now and haven't yet been convinced of life after death.



I love the Monty Python skit where they interview three corpses and ask them if there is life after death. "There you have it, folks. Three say "no". :laugh:  I tried to post it from YT, but failed.


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## chic (Feb 11, 2016)

I'm not sure. I think when the brain doesn't get enough oxygen the body dies and consciousness ceases and without consciousness can their be a heaven or a hell?

On earth, I believe in will and accomplishment and peace and beauty. A strong human will can result in what others might call miracles, but isn't this just a more sophisticated level of existence? The brain when programed correctly can create physiological changes in the body. Zen Buddists can do this too in a different way, by creating an alternate reality. 

It's all very interesting. I don't have a clue, but I have had many loved ones die and I've gotta know they loved me so much on earth that if they could've come back to me even for a moment, let's say when I was in dire need, they would have, but they didn't, which means they couldn't, which means to me there is no life after death. Sorry but this is where my train of thought leads.


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## Underock1 (Feb 11, 2016)

chic said:


> I'm not sure. I think when the brain doesn't get enough oxygen the body dies and consciousness ceases and without consciousness can their be a heaven or a hell?
> 
> On earth, I believe in will and accomplishment and peace and beauty. A strong human will can result in what others might call miracles, but isn't this just a more sophisticated level of existence? The brain when programed correctly can create physiological changes in the body. Zen Buddists can do this too in a different way, by creating an alternate reality.
> 
> It's all very interesting. I don't have a clue, but I have had many loved ones die and I've gotta know they loved me so much on earth that if they could've come back to me even for a moment, let's say when I was in dire need, they would have, but they didn't, which means they couldn't, which means to me there is no life after death. Sorry but this is where my train of thought leads.



I think your train is on the right track.


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## Cookie (Feb 11, 2016)

I think whatever anyone believes about life after death is pure speculation based on personal experiences of one kind or another.  I myself have never seen any ghosts or apparitions or even felt the presence of loved ones that have passed on.  And I've never had a sense that I have been someplace or known someone from a past life. If I ever believed in reincarnation it was because it was part of a package of beliefs included in the yogic philosophy I was practicing at one time. But now, I don't know and I don't think about it much, except of course when someone close to me passes away and I'm going through the process of dealing with it.


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## chic (Feb 11, 2016)

Underock1 said:


> I think your train is on the right track.



Thank you Underock. 

Life isn't fair, but humans need to believe that it is, hence the creation of a heaven where good people are eternally rewarded for their goodness, and hell, where the wicked are punished. Its laudable that humans have an almost innate sense of fairness, but if we created this theory to comfort ourselves during our lifetimes, laudable or not, does that make it a fact??


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## Underock1 (Feb 11, 2016)

chic said:


> Thank you Underock.
> 
> Life isn't fair, but humans need to believe that it is, hence the creation of a heaven where good people are eternally rewarded for their goodness, and hell, where the wicked are punished. Its laudable that humans have an almost innate sense of fairness, but if we created this theory to comfort ourselves during our lifetimes, laudable or not, does that make it a fact??



" It is better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion however satisfying and reassuring"
 -Carl Sagan

I find more comfort in the idea of death's finality than the uncertainty of existing in some unknown and unknowable after life for eternity. Eternity is a _very _long time.
I'm looking forward to a long nap myself. fftobed:


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## Ralphy1 (Feb 11, 2016)

I plan to be buried with my iPad and a bottle of gin just in case...


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## Underock1 (Feb 11, 2016)

Ralphy1 said:


> I plan to be buried with my iPad and a bottle of gin just in case...



My advice to you: Drink the gin _now.  :woohoo:_


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## Ralphy1 (Feb 11, 2016)

Lol!


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 11, 2016)

Bettyann said:


> I have had quite a number of interesting experiences surrounded around 'death'... including sitting with dying patients who 'saw' and spoke with loved ones right before they died. If they mentioned a name, I would later ask a surviving relative/friend as to who so and so was...
> I have had contact with people who have passed on. I have come across one person...this was a most fascinating experience... with whom I shared a former lifetime just by talking and getting to know each other and both having these memories...and we were both shocked because several people followed our 'discovery' and were equally stunned when we looked up some 'real' records for 'proof' of this...and FOUND it!
> These stories are WAY too long for me to go into.... plus, I have listened to stories from other people who had interesting experiences with those who had passed on... and you just 'know' and 'can feel' if they are coming from a truthful or fantasy-like place... (if it makes any difference to any of you: I am not a Christian... but am spiritual...and yup, there is a HUGE difference (to me! )



God is Spirit Bettyann...everything about Him is Spiritual so really the only difference there is the one mankind has made with their religious (not spiritual) nonsense. My daughter is a Nurse in a Nursing Home and she has sat with many of the elderly that passed from this earth to their heavenly home. They also have talked to some of their loved ones who are already there or angels. And the JOY on some of their faces as they left this earth just radiated from their face. My daughter would tell me it was like that JOY lit up the whole room.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 11, 2016)

Part 1

My father married a woman who wanted only to get his children out of his house. My father was a military man and didn't know  much about raising little girls he gave her free hand and trusted her. We never went to him about her because he loved her so much, so we kept the goings on of what the house was like when he was gone to ourselves..never telling him. At 13 I ran away from home. 4 months later I felt really bad for my Dad at Christmas and went back home. That's when my step mother took advantage of the situation to tell my father she found this 'wonderful' place for troubled teens. A 'home' for girls run by this wonderful Christian ministry. 
It was a place that would  not let the girls speak to their parents for the first 3 months. That is because they had the system down to a science. It took 3 months to break most people. It was systematic brainwashing from 5 am until lights out at night. There was beatings and brutality. Once I found this website online  that listed brainwashing techniques used on POWS in Korea. All except maybe 2 of those techniques were used on us in that place to teach us to love Jesus. They even had monitors in our rooms where they could listen in to what was being said, so they could haul you down and beat you for behaving 'worldly'.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 11, 2016)

Part 2
We were not allowed radio, magazines, newspapers, tv. We had no idea that the Vietnam war ended. They finally closed that place down because pictures of beatings were smuggled to news media. They just opened it right up under another name is another state. You can't do a darn thing about these places either. And they are all over the place. Young being systematically brainwashed to 'follow the Lord'. That's why I'm slightly more concerned with what is going on in my own backyard than what Muslims are teaching in the middle east.  How many kids are trapped in these whacked out religious environments and places? I don't think anyone knows the real number. I did look up one of my roommates from back then. She's a very famous successful artist. She doesn't want anyone to know she was there. She said she's still going to therapy about that place. Me.. I never could afford therapy ( can't you tell?  ) but it seriously left scars that lasted a long time. I can't stand someone 'pushing' me into thinking their way. I think ridicule isn't a really cool way to 'enlighten' someone into a better way of thinking either. That's why I get creeped out about organized religion. One of the worst beatings I got while there was when this big man yelled at me " Tell me what your name is!" and I answered him back " Do you have conversations with God?" and he said " Yes I do!" Then I said " Well then why don't you ask him what my GD name is?"

oh P.S.- I have run into some people online whose brain washing never did wear off and they talk about how wonderful that place was and how if anything bad did happen there it was done for the 'Lord's' sake. SHIVER


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 11, 2016)

BlunderWoman said:


> Part 2
> We were not allowed radio, magazines, newspapers, tv. We had no idea that the Vietnam war ended. They finally closed that place down because pictures of beatings were smuggled to news media. They just opened it right up under another name is another state. You can't do a darn thing about these places either. And they are all over the place. Young being systematically brainwashed to 'follow the Lord'. That's why I'm slightly more concerned with what is going on in my own backyard than what Muslims are teaching in the middle east.  How many kids are trapped in these whacked out religious environments and places? I don't think anyone knows the real number. I did look up one of my roommates from back then. She's a very famous successful artist. She doesn't want anyone to know she was there. She said she's still going to therapy about that place. Me.. I never could afford therapy ( can't you tell?  ) but it seriously left scars that lasted a long time. I can't stand someone 'pushing' me into thinking their way. I think ridicule isn't a really cool way to 'enlighten' someone into a better way of thinking either. That's why I get creeped out about organized religion. One of the worst beatings I got while there was when this big man yelled at me " Tell me what your name is!" and I answered him back " Do you have conversations with God?" and he said " Yes I do!" Then I said " Well then why don't you ask him what my GD name is?"
> 
> oh P.S.- I have run into some people online whose brain washing never did wear off and they talk about how wonderful that place was and how if anything bad did happen there it was done for the 'Lord's' sake. SHIVER



I'm truly sorry you had to experince what you did from organized religion Blunderwoman. It is clear from reading so many of the posts from others that organized religion has also abused and caused deep wounds in them too. I have had my own experiences with organized religion that caused pain and wounding too but my pain and wounds have been healed by Jesus and I no longer have anything to do with organized religion or religious denominations either. I am at peace with knowing that when my body dies to this earth, my soul will go straight to my heavenly Father and I will spend eternity with Him. I don't believe this because it was drilled into me, because I was brain washed by religion or another else. I believe it because Jesus has spoken this in my heart and I had no doubt that it was the truth. I read about all the other beliefs of what happens after we die and find all these things very interesting...but nothing I've studied has ever made even doubt what Jesus spoke to me.


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## Cookie (Feb 11, 2016)

Blunderwoman, I'm sorry you had that terrible experience in your teens -- and glad that you seem to have survived it well.  I know about brainwashing and cults and their techniques, having read some things and having been involved myself in a east indian 'meditation' cult with a charismatic leader for many years. I left, but the effects stick around for a long time. That is why I also find that religions and all their 'beliefs' don't mean anything to me anymore. I find that all the afterlife talk and such seems to be part of the indoctrination and rhetoric, so its hard to take people giving the schpiel which all sounds like a parrot to me now, just repeating what has been told to them. Good for you for dealing with this in a very sane and reasonable way.


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 11, 2016)

Even with all that has happened with so many of you I just can't imagine that you don't have a thought of what might happen to you after you die or even seem to care about it...even if it just that as some have said they believe when you die you are just dead and that is it I would like to know that.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 11, 2016)

Cookie said:


> Blunderwoman, I'm sorry you had that terrible experience in your teens -- and glad that you seem to have survived it well.  I know about brainwashing and cults and their techniques, having read some things and having been involved myself in a east indian 'meditation' cult with a charismatic leader for many years. I left, but the effects stick around for a long time. That is why I also find that religions and all their 'beliefs' don't mean anything to me anymore. I find that all the afterlife talk and such seems to be part of the indoctrination and rhetoric, so its hard to take people giving the schpiel which all sounds like a parrot to me now, just repeating what has been told to them. Good for you for dealing with this in a very sane and reasonable way.


Thank you ((hugs))


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2016)

Babs, if we do not question the sincerity of your faith,  whether or not we share it, why not grant us the same tolerance and accept that bewildering to you or not, some are content to be scattered into the wind, extinguished forever. 

Perhaps for them, having lived at all, is miracle enough. With respect, to indicate disbelief re their lack of thought/concern re after death, is less than respectful.


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## Underock1 (Feb 11, 2016)

Babsinbloom65 said:


> Even with all that has happened with so many of you I just can't imagine that you don't have a thought of what might happen to you after you die or even seem to care about it...even if it just that as some have said they believe when you die you are just dead and that is it I would like to know that.



I don't know what you are looking for here, Babs. You asked whether we believed in an after life or not, and everyone gave an answer. How can you say no one has a thought about it after they have given those thoughts to you. If you mean _why _don't people believe in Jesus, that's a whole other thing. Given how central that belief is to your own life, any discussion of the topic can lead to no happy place. I am happy for you that you find comfort in your belief. I find comfort in my non-belief.

After thought: If you are asking am I worried about the _possibility _that I might not get into Heaven or be thrown into Hell, the answer is no. Not a bit.


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## BlunderWoman (Feb 11, 2016)

Babsinbloom65 said:


> I just can't imagine that you don't have a thought of what might happen to you after you die or even seem to care about it...even if it just that as some have said they believe when you die you are just dead and that is it I would like to know that.



Many people  did share with your their thoughts on death, dying, afterlife. It seems to me like you weren't listening to what they said. I spent a great deal of thought on the matter. I spent a great deal of money traveling through the middle east during this process. I'm calm about death and dying now. I'm okay with you feeling like Jesus does it for you, and I'm also ok with my own rejection of all of the 3 faiths that started with Abraham. I don't believe the Torah, the Bible, The Quran. I don't believe any of the Messengers were sent by God or Gods or in any of them being the son of God or God and his Son at the same time. It's because I have rejected these things I now feel at peace and happy with my life and am no longer worried about death and dying. I don't feel like I just have to know what's going to happen when I die because if I don't a wonderful loving God will cast me out of a Heaven or throw me into a everlasting fire. I'm free to be calm and just find out what happens when it happens.
It really makes no difference to me one way or the other if Jesus does it for you. If that makes you happy ..then that's good. I didn't write about WHY I don't accept Jesus as my God, etc. I didn't write about it out of trying to be respectful for what you believe rather than making an effort to dismantle what you believe.
We can open that door if you want, but it would need to go in another section & not the general section.


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 11, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Babs, if we do not question the sincerity of your faith,  whether or not we share it, why not grant us the same tolerance and accept that bewildering to you or not, some are content to be scattered into the wind, extinguished forever.
> 
> Perhaps for them, having lived at all, is miracle enough. With respect, to indicate disbelief re their lack of thought/concern re after death, is less than respectful.



If anyone thinks I am disrespecting them here then I sincerely apologize because it is certainly not my intention Shalimar. You just said if some are content to be scattered in the wind, extinquished forever...then I'm just asking them to share that if they are willing. I am sorry you took what I said out of context...there is no way I was disrespecting anyone's beliefs.


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2016)

Fair enough Babs. Thanks for clarifying your position.


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## Cookie (Feb 11, 2016)

I am a proponent of freedom to think and believe without being judged --- but in my experience many so called religious or spiritual people seem to want to convert or push their beliefs on me. What irks me more is that oftentimes these spiritual/religious people  discredit those who do not think as they do, with a them-and-us  mentality and criticizes our choices which makes me really want to  avoid them even more.  Not to say that you are one of these people Babs, but that has been my experience with people I know/knew.


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 11, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> Babs, if we do not question the sincerity of your faith,  whether or not we share it, why not grant us the same tolerance and accept that bewildering to you or not, some are content to be scattered into the wind, extinguished forever.
> 
> Perhaps for them, having lived at all, is miracle enough. With respect, to indicate disbelief re their lack of thought/concern re after death, is less than respectful.




Again what I have said is being taken out of context. And no I am not asking anything about whether you believe in heaven or hell, Jesus, or anything like that. And I'm sorry you felt the need to imply that I was Underrock1. To you it may seem that everyone answered but I haven't found it to be that way.


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 11, 2016)

Cookie said:


> I am a proponent of freedom to think and believe without being judged --- but in my experience many so called religious or spiritual people seem to want to convert or push their beliefs on me. What irks me more is that oftentimes these spiritual/religious people  discredit those who do not think as they do, with a them-and-us  mentality and criticizes our choices which makes me really want to  avoid them even more.  Not to say that you are one of these people Babs, but that has been my experience with people I know/knew.




Cookie, no I am not one of those people. But I am a person that is very curious about things that interest me and love to ask questions on those subjects. And I know I did not tell anyone how they have to feel about this subject or any other. But I do have a question for you...if you have no thoughts or beliefs on the afterlife, why did you even bother to come and post here.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2016)

Babsinbloom65 said:


> But I do have a question for you...if you have no thoughts or beliefs on the afterlife, why did you even bother to come and post here.



Babs - is not a negative answer as valid as a positive one?

In other words, a "no thought" vote should be as informative as any other. Your topic title - "Do You Believe ..." - left the door open, I think.


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 11, 2016)

SifuPhil said:


> Babs - is not a negative answer as valid as a positive one?
> 
> In other words, a "no thought" vote should be as informative as any other. Your topic title - "Do You Believe ..." - left the door open, I think.



It is not the negative or positive answer that I am talking about. It is a joke instead of any answer or a changing of the subject, etc. or even just saying it is not something I choose to think about. If you don't want to answer a question then just don't post. It's as simple as that.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2016)

Babsinbloom65 said:


> It is not the negative or positive answer that I am talking about. It is a joke instead of any answer or a changing of the subject, etc. or even just saying it is not something I choose to think about. If you don't want to answer a question then just don't post. It's as simple as that.



But they DID answer your question - just evidently not in a way that you agree with nor like. 

If you only want a limited range of responses you could always make a thread with those little button choices and define it that way.


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## Karen99 (Feb 11, 2016)

I have liked reading everyone's views and opinions..and I also felt this was a yes no or maybe so topic.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2016)

Karen99 said:


> I have liked reading everyone's views and opinions..and I also felt this was a yes no or maybe so topic.



The problem there of course becomes the desire to explain one's beliefs. That takes it far from "Yes/No/Maybe So".


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2016)

I also believe that a humourous response to mortality is not inappropriate. It is for many a terminal condition. I found Cookie's contribution to this thread interesting. Sometimes people tells us what we wish to hear, sometimes they do not. Whether or not that is helpful, depends entirely on which inner cat/dog you choose to feed. Om.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> I also believe that a humourous response to mortality is not inappropriate. It is for many a terminal condition. I found Cookie's contribution to this thread interesting. Sometimes people tells us what we wish to hear, sometimes they do not. Whether or not that is helpful, depends entirely on which inner cat/dog you choose to feed. Om.



I try to feed my inner dog, but my outer cat gets jealous ...


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2016)

Oops, forgot to say, I also found Cookie's contribution to this thread interesting. Leaving out words changes context.


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 11, 2016)

Babsinbloom65 said:


> Since y'all know that I call God my Father and Jesus Christ my Redeemer and Savior....then most of you will know that I believe in a very real heaven and hell. But many people have other beliefs and to them their beliefs are just as real to them as mine are to me. So I am interested in knowing your beliefs and I hope y'all will share with me.



Okay, some of these last posts tell me I have not communicated clearly what I wanted to know...so I am just going to thank all of you for doing your best to tell me what you heard me asking you and move on. I appreciate all your input.


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## Karen99 (Feb 11, 2016)

SifuPhil said:


> The problem there of course becomes the desire to explain one's beliefs. That takes it far from "Yes/No/Maybe So".



geez, Phil...let me elaborate ... I was agreeing with what you said basically...as in ..yes I believe (with or without more explanation) or nope I don't believe in anything (with or without explanation) ...or "maybe so" (with or without explanation). I should have quoted your response about negative answer being indeed an answer.

what I didn't read anywhere here was...Well I died and came back and let me report on my findings...:magnify:


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 11, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> I also believe that a humourous response to mortality is not inappropriate. It is for many a terminal condition. I found Cookie's contribution to this thread interesting. Sometimes people tells us what we wish to hear, sometimes they do not. Whether or not that is helpful, depends entirely on which inner cat/dog you choose to feed. Om.



You are right Shalimar...and I am reminding myself right now of what I posted in another thread about how I am "Learning how to not take things so seriously"


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## Cookie (Feb 11, 2016)

Babsinbloom65 said:


> But I do have a question for you...if you have no thoughts or beliefs on the afterlife, why did you even bother to come and post here.



Babs, if you will please read my previous posts  (read posts 35, 45 and 53) and you will see that I do in fact have some thoughts on the topic --- perhaps different from yours but nevertheless, I am entitled to post here regardless of whether I believe it or not. If you are saying that because you have not read/understood my post then I should not have posted, then you are sadly mistaken.


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## Underock1 (Feb 11, 2016)

BlunderWoman said:


> Many people  did share with your their thoughts on death, dying, afterlife. It seems to me like you weren't listening to what they said. I spent a great deal of thought on the matter. I spent a great deal of money traveling through the middle east during this process. I'm calm about death and dying now. I'm okay with you feeling like Jesus does it for you, and I'm also ok with my own rejection of all of the 3 faiths that started with Abraham. I don't believe the Torah, the Bible, The Quran. I don't believe any of the Messengers were sent by God or Gods or in any of them being the son of God or God and his Son at the same time. It's because I have rejected these things I now feel at peace and happy with my life and am no longer worried about death and dying. I don't feel like I just have to know what's going to happen when I die because if I don't a wonderful loving God will cast me out of a Heaven or throw me into a everlasting fire. I'm free to be calm and just find out what happens when it happens.
> It really makes no difference to me one way or the other if Jesus does it for you. If that makes you happy ..then that's good. I didn't write about WHY I don't accept Jesus as my God, etc. I didn't write about it out of trying to be respectful for what you believe rather than making an effort to dismantle what you believe.
> We can open that door if you want, but it would need to go in another section & not the general section.



Excellent post! You have certainly done your home work and been there in more ways than one.Sorry about your sad early experiences. One of the big reasons I would love to see religion die.

BlunderWoman? Your name made me laugh when I first saw it. I thought it was great. It certainly doesn't match the reality.


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## Underock1 (Feb 11, 2016)

Babsinbloom65 said:


> Okay, some of these last posts tell me I have not communicated clearly what I wanted to know...so I am just going to thank all of you for doing your best to tell me what you heard me asking you and move on. I appreciate all your input.



Babs, I guess I should let it go, but it interests me that you asked a very clear question and got appropriate answers and still feel like you didn't get any answer. You apparently still have an unanswered question. Why don't you try to "communicate more clearly" and give it another shot. Most of your replies were from non-believers, but everyone has been respectful of your position. This is a rare group. We are all friends here. :rose:


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## Babsinbloom65 (Feb 11, 2016)

Here's how it is and I take the full blame for expressing myself in a way that offended some of you. For those I have offended, please know that I am truly sorry for this and accept my apology if you feel you can. My thread question will remain up and I hope all of you will feel free to post if you have anything you want to share on the topic. I won't be posting anymore on this tread but only reading replies from now on. Thank you again for what all of you have already shared and once again please accept my apology for my unintentional hurt that y'all have let me know I brought to some of you.


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## Shalimar (Feb 11, 2016)

What a gracious response Babs.


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## Underock1 (Feb 11, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> What a gracious response Babs.



I agree. I don't think anyone was offended. Whatever back and forth there was could all be chalked up to that wonderfully reliable thing called miscommunication. Glad we are all leaving as friends. Life's to short.


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## Underock1 (Feb 11, 2016)

Shalimar said:


> What a gracious response Babs.



I agree. I don't think anyone was offended. Whatever back and forth there was could all be chalked up to that wonderfully reliable thing called miscommunication. Glad we are all leaving as friends. Life's to short. :smug1:


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## Bettyann (Feb 11, 2016)

(My opinion)"God" is simply The Force...of all...LIfe...in everything...all that is... and it is in US to use or abuse... Its when people start thinking of "God" as an entity...especially as described in horrid detail in the Old Testament... it took me SO MANY years to get over and free myself from the shackles of 'religious' thinking. However, I believe I had a hand in choosing to experience this in this incarnation... So... I don't waste much time blaming anyone or anything...
And... I know people who are Christian who are very nice people...they LIVE their beliefs with no prosyletizing, no preaching, or trying to 'save' others... and I have the utmost respect for them... 
I most closely align with Buddhism...however, it is more of a philosophy than it is a religion...


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## SifuPhil (Feb 11, 2016)

Karen99 said:


> geez, Phil...let me elaborate ... I was agreeing with what you said basically...as in ..yes I believe (with or without more explanation) or nope I don't believe in anything (with or without explanation) ...or "maybe so" (with or without explanation). I should have quoted your response about negative answer being indeed an answer.



Oh, I know - I like to switch sides suddenly. 

No, seriously - I'm just pointing out the foibles of my own response - that even with yes/no answers, people are going to want to elaborate.



> what I didn't read anywhere here was...Well I died and came back and let me report on my findings...:magnify:



Well, I've had a lot of _petit morts, _but I doubt my reports would be allowed on this forum.


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## Karen99 (Feb 11, 2016)

SifuPhil said:


> Oh, I know - I like to switch sides suddenly.
> 
> No, seriously - I'm just pointing out the foibles of my own response - that even with yes/no answers, people are going to want to elaborate.
> 
> ...



well..you know comedians die onstage all the time..but they return to the scene of the crime.  people are such optimists sometimes and I love humanity for continuing to try despite knowing in the grand scheme of things our footprints just wash away...or do they......

* Rod Serling steps out of the shadows..."it was just a response to a thread on a Forum....but that thread lead to a place not mentioned...even in Wiki....because it's offline...way offline..in an uncharted corner know as..The Twilight Zone"

mg1::eewwk:mg1::darth:


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## Underock1 (Feb 11, 2016)

Karen99 said:


> well..you know comedians die onstage all the time..but they return to the scene of the crime.  people are such optimists sometimes and I love humanity for continuing to try despite knowing in the grand scheme of things our footprints just wash away...or do they......
> 
> * Rod Serling steps out of the shadows..."it was just a response to a thread on a Forum....but that thread lead to a place not mentioned...even in Wiki....because it's offline...way offline..in an uncharted corner know as..The Twilight Zone"
> 
> mg1::eewwk:mg1::darth:



I love it, Karen. I could hear Rod Serling speaking the words. :applause2: Very good.


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## Ameriscot (Feb 12, 2016)

Babsinbloom65 said:


> Cookie, no I am not one of those people. But I am a person that is very curious about things that interest me and love to ask questions on those subjects. And I know I did not tell anyone how they have to feel about this subject or any other. But I do have a question for you...if you have no thoughts or beliefs on the afterlife, why did you even bother to come and post here.



Your topic question was 'Do you believe in an afterlife?'.  It doesn't say the topic is only for those who do believe in an afterlife.


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## chic (Feb 12, 2016)

Babsinbloom65 said:


> Even with all that has happened with so many of you I just can't imagine that you don't have a thought of what might happen to you after you die or even seem to care about it...even if it just that as some have said they believe when you die you are just dead and that is it I would like to know that.



I think about death very frequently because so very many of my family members and friends have died before me and I'm not that old. So I do wonder about it all. But what can be done about death? It happens to all. No one has ever come back to tell us anything about an afterlife. If any of my friends or relatives had come back after death, I might think more about what happens after we die. But since they haven't thinking about it too much takes time away from the here and now and the pleasures and people in this life, in this world. I still think when the hippocampus goes, there is no more memory or consciousness..


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## Underock1 (Feb 12, 2016)

chic said:


> I think about death very frequently because so very many of my family members and friends have died before me and I'm not that old. So I do wonder about it all. But what can be done about death? It happens to all. No one has ever come back to tell us anything about an afterlife. If any of my friends or relatives had come back after death, I might think more about what happens after we die. But since they haven't thinking about it too much takes time away from the here and now and the pleasures and people in this life, in this world. I still think when the hippocampus goes, there is no more memory or consciousness..



I think you have it exactly right. So many people spending so much of the short time we have here trying to ensure their place in an unlikely afterlife about which we know nothing.


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## Ina (Feb 12, 2016)

Think outside the box. When I think outside of this small blue ball we call earth, I see no 'religion'.  Only the continuous movement of existence.  I see no heaven or hell. The ashes of everything become something else, and therefore continue on. I do not think my existence is any greater than the trees, animals, or the stars, but no less either.  It is a journey. 
:hide:


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## Cookie (Feb 12, 2016)

Beautiful, Ina.


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## Shalimar (Feb 12, 2016)

Very beautiful Ina. Thank you.


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## SifuPhil (Feb 12, 2016)

Nicely said, Ina.


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## Underock1 (Feb 12, 2016)

Ina said:


> Think outside the box. When I think outside of this small blue ball we call earth, I see no 'religion'.  Only the continuous movement of existence.  I see no heaven or hell. The ashes of everything become something else, and therefore continue on. I do not think my existence is any greater than the trees, animals, or the stars, but no less either.  It is a journey.
> :hide:



:applause2:No need to hide behind the sofa, Ina. Great post. My view exactly. "We are all star stuff". When I go, my ashes will be mixed with my wife's and we will be returned together to the universe. We are all one.


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## IKE (Feb 12, 2016)

Not sure if I believe or not.......I'm a fence sitter.


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## Elsie (Aug 10, 2018)

My physical body will end up as part of nature, but the part of it that thinks, has emotions, makes decisions good and bad is my soul.  A mysterious part of me given by God(I AM in the Holy Bible) that will leave my body at its death and return to my God of the Bible.


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## Keesha (Aug 10, 2018)

Elsie said:


> My physical body will end up as part of nature, but the part of it that thinks, has emotions, makes decisions good and bad is my soul.  A mysterious part of me given by God(I AM in the Holy Bible) that will leave my body at its death and return to my God of the Bible.



REALLY?? :shrug:


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## Sunny (Aug 11, 2018)

> My physical body will end up as part of nature, but the part of it that  thinks, has emotions, makes decisions good and bad is my soul.



No, Elsie, it is your mind. Your mind functions as long as your brain is alive. The "soul" was made up by theologians centuries ago, to keep people in line. As others have said in several different threads here, there
is no evidence that any part of our consciousness survives after we are dead. The fact that a fairy tale was written centuries, or millennia ago, and included in a book that we were told was "holy," does not make
that fairy tale true.


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## Lara (Aug 11, 2018)

Sunny said:


> No, Elsie, it is your mind. Your mind functions as long as your brain is alive. The "soul" was made up by theologians centuries ago, to keep people in line. As others have said in several different threads here, there
> is no evidence that any part of our consciousness survives after we are dead.


...and there is no evidence that your belief is true. You are going on faith just as Elsie is...and I.


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## Elsie (Aug 11, 2018)

One's mind during life is no more at one's body death.  But all humans have a Soul given by God, as His children, that returns to Him at that death.  Read honest open-minded research articles on reasons why there is God of the Bible with your own mind open, putting aside belief you have of all of it being "Fairy Tales", while you do your research.  Believe as you will.


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## Sunny (Aug 11, 2018)

Oh no, Lara, I am not going by "faith."  Faith implies believing something just because someone has told you to believe it, and because emotionally you are tuned to believing them. No proof is needed in faith,
just the feeling that someone is telling you the truth. People can (and do) have faith in utter nonsense.

Science does not work like that. It is constantly subject to investigation, and nothing is "believed" in the absence of proof.


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## Lara (Aug 11, 2018)

I wouldn't try to change Elsie's mind if I were you,  Sunny, because you are definitely going by faith as well. You have "absence of proof" and yet believe 

that which has not been proven by science, such as no afterlife.


And, faith isn't "believing something just because someone told us to believe it". Faith is a choice based on historical, scientific, and biblical study, as well as 

prayer, personal experience's, and common sense. You don't have to be told to look around you to realize it's takes your 5 senses and common sense to 

have faith in an intelligent designer.


Science will never put all the pieces together. Why would Elsie waste her time waiting for them when she can enjoy all of the blessings and joy God has for 

her now? 

Why would she choose to miss out on the greatest love and relationship with the all powerful and mighty Creator?


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## rgp (Aug 11, 2018)

Sunny said:


> Oh no, Lara, I am not going by "faith."  Faith implies believing something just because someone has told you to believe it, and because emotionally you are tuned to believing them. No proof is needed in faith,
> just the feeling that someone is telling you the truth. People can (and do) have faith in utter nonsense.
> 
> Science does not work like that. It is constantly subject to investigation, and nothing is "believed" in the absence of proof.




I agree completely...this is why I equate religion with cult-following.

Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc......following them is IMHO no different than following religious teachings / the bible.


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## Olivia (Aug 11, 2018)

rgp said:


> I agree completely...this is why I equate religion with cult-following.
> 
> Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc......following them is IMHO no different than following religious teachings / the bible.



That's easy. No thinking involved. Hurts the brain otherwise, right?


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## rgp (Aug 11, 2018)

Olivia said:


> That's easy. No thinking involved. Hurts the brain otherwise, right?



Exactly, it requires little from them...just follow what [_that man up there_] tells them to do & all will be OK....and I get to go to heaven ..........what ever that is?


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## Olivia (Aug 11, 2018)

rgp said:


> Exactly, it requires little from them...just follow what [_that man up there_] tells them to do & all will be OK....and I get to go to heaven ..........what ever that is?



LOL! If ignorance was a major in college, you'd already have a PhD.


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## rgp (Aug 11, 2018)

Olivia said:


> LOL! If ignorance was a major in college, you'd already have a PhD.




Oh...now we have entered personal attacks?....well you are classless , so I'm not surprised.


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## Olivia (Aug 11, 2018)

rgp said:


> Oh...now we have entered personal attacks?....well you are classless , so I'm not surprised.



Oh, it's okay for you though, huh? Read your posts.


> I equate religion with cult-following.


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## rgp (Aug 11, 2018)

Olivia said:


> Oh, it's okay for you though, huh? Read your posts.




In your ignorance you fail to realize that, that is not a personal attack. It is my opinion on religion~V~cults.

Perhaps brush up on your reading comprehension skills.


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## Olivia (Aug 11, 2018)

rgp said:


> In your ignorance you fail to realize that, that is not a personal attack. It is my opinion on religion~V~cults.
> 
> Perhaps brush up on your reading comprehension skills.



Oh, forgive me. It was just your opinion.


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## Sunny (Aug 11, 2018)

From Merriam-Webster:

FAITH
a                                                       *: *allegiance to duty or a person *: *loyalty 

lost faith in the company's president
 

                                                          b (1)                                                       *: *fidelity to one's promises      
                             (2)                                                       *: *sincerity of intentions                              

acted in good faith
 


                                                               2 a (1)                                                       *: *belief and trust in and loyalty to God      
                             (2)                                                       *: *belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion      

                                                          b (1)                                                       *: *firm belief in something for which there is no proof                              

clinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return
 
                             (2)                                                       *: *complete trust      


                                                  3                                                       *: *something that is believed especially with strong conviction;                              especially                                                      *: *a system of religious beliefs                              

the Protestant faith
 

                                                                                                                                        —             on faith

Lara, none of these definitions come even close to my preference for ideas which can be proved (or disproved!) via science.  Science does not demand "faith" or any kind of official "belief," only the desire to study and
discover what is true, and what is not.  Scientific ideas are always being modified, occasionally even discarded, as new evidence comes to light. But that's the big difference. Science depends on evidence, not on "belief" or what you call faith.

You are attempting to equate your passionate faith in what's in the Bible with a modern understanding of how science works. It is apples and oranges.

Here's an example:  The Bible tells us that the entire universe, including the earth, was created in six days. For many centuries, people of faith believed that. After all, it says so in the Bible.

But then, science came along and demonstrated that the universe was billions of years old, and the earth many millions of years old. Even man, the newest animal to appear, has been around for millions of years. Why believe
this?  Because science (carbon dating, etc.) demonstrates to us that it is true. No one is asked to accept that idea based on blind faith.  If science suddenly came up with some new irrefutable proof that it all really did happen
in six days, we would change our opinion.  But it has to be proven using the scientific method.  Otherwise, it's just belief in the fairy tales of a more ignorant age.


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## Olivia (Aug 11, 2018)

I have been posting for 20 years on a partciular forum now, where 90 percent of the posters are atheists.  In fact, most of the purpose of the board is to dispute religion. That's okay with me,--finally-- because everyone has to eventually come to their own conclusions,  Die  and think as you want. We are born without our permission or thought, but God willing, we can think and decide how we want do die.


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## Sunny (Aug 11, 2018)

Olivia, I can't understand what you are trying to say. Could you please rephrase?


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## C'est Moi (Aug 11, 2018)

I do not believe in an afterlife.   I fully expect that when I die, it will be exactly as it was before I was born.   Nothing.


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## Lara (Aug 12, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> I do not believe in an afterlife.   I fully expect that when I die, it will be exactly as it was before I was born.   Nothing.


And so you think your time here on earth will have been worthless when all is said and done? No reason for your existence? 

I mean, I respect your opinion but I just can't imagine feeling that way...no hope.


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## Ferocious (Aug 12, 2018)

I don't even want to contemplate dying until I'm at least 294, I've got so much to do. 
I want to go hang-gliding when I'm 138 and maybe link up with the 'sneezy gal' in Gary's taproom, I've already bought shares in a pepper company.
One ambition I really want to bring about, is setting a world record for hopping to the South Pole, then walk back on my hands.
Then of course, there are all the lovely girls hereabouts that I'd like to dance the tango with.....Hmmmm, perhaps 294 years won't be enough......:hatlaugh1:


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## Elsie (Aug 12, 2018)

Oh come on Ferocious, going by all those 'fun' things you want to do, you'd burn out 200 years before you got to them.


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## Elsie (Aug 12, 2018)

C'est Moi, how did you manage to come from nothing?


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## rgp (Aug 12, 2018)

Lara said:


> And so you think your time here on earth will have been worthless when all is said and done? No reason for your existence?
> 
> I mean, I respect your opinion but I just can't imagine feeling that way...no hope.




 Where did he mention his time here ?

 He noted the nothingness before birth, and his expecting to return to it.


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## Ferocious (Aug 12, 2018)

Elsie said:


> Oh come on Ferocious, going by all those 'fun' things you want to do, you'd burn out 200 years before you got to them.




Oh no I wouldn't:tongue:


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## Elsie (Aug 12, 2018)

You hope. layful:


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## Sunny (Aug 12, 2018)

> And so you think your time here on earth will have been worthless when all is said and done? No reason for your existence?
> 
> I mean, I respect your opinion but I just can't imagine feeling that way...no hope.



Who said anything about "worthless?"  We make our time on earth worthwhile by doing good for our fellow human beings and other creatures, and trying to preserve our beautiful planet.  Why do we require
an afterlife system of "heavenly rewards" in order to be worthwhile?

When I look at my six wonderful grandchildren, that's where I see hope. Not by dreaming of pie in the sky.

Lara, you seem like a very nice person and I don't wish to offend you. But you seem to have a habit of taking your own, very personal beliefs and trying to make universal truths out of them. It doesn't work
that way. We each see the world through our own prism, and agree with theories that answer our own needs.


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## Buckeye (Aug 12, 2018)

The existence of "life after death" is self-fulfilling. If you believe there is none, for you there won't be one.  If you believe there is, for you there will be.  And as for the "soul" or "spirit" surviving after our mortal death, it is really simple, too.  For example, if you have a smart phone, you know that its data will automatically be backed up "to the cloud" unless you change the settings to stop it.  Even if the phone is destroyed, the data is still out there.  Our soul/spirit is the sum total of our life experiences and thoughts here on earth.  Those we still remember and those we have forgotten.  Those memories/thoughts/images/sensations (data) are "backed up to the cloud" by some process as yet unknown, unless you have selected to turn off that process.  My personal opinion is that the unknown process is triggered by prayer.   So, I will have an after-life, not bodily, but my spirit will live on, and I will be reunited with the love ones that have preceded me in earthly death.


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## C'est Moi (Aug 12, 2018)

Lara said:


> And so you think your time here on earth will have been worthless when all is said and done? No reason for your existence?
> 
> I mean, I respect your opinion but I just can't imagine feeling that way...no hope.



Please don't project YOUR feelings onto me.   I have plenty of hope, but I'm a realist.   No need to challenge my beliefs unless you are shaky with your own.


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## C'est Moi (Aug 12, 2018)

Elsie said:


> C'est Moi, how did you manage to come from nothing?



Exactly the same way YOU did; a sperm and an egg.


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## Elsie (Aug 12, 2018)

Again, C'est Moi, how did you (or anyone come to think of it) manage to come about from nothing?  Did you mean nothing as something?  But then, if so, what would be that something--just wonderin' here.


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## C'est Moi (Aug 12, 2018)

Elsie said:


> Again, C'est Moi, how did you (or anyone come to think of it) manage to come about from nothing?  Did you mean nothing as something?  But then, if so, what would be that something--just wonderin' here.



I guess some benevolent spirit in a nightgown waved his magic wand.   Happy now?


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## Elsie (Aug 12, 2018)

How could a sperm and egg/ovum exist from nothing?  Maybe when you said "nothing" you didn't mean there is only nothingness everywhere, period, but you meant if sperm and ovum does not join, nothing (us) is created? ?


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## C'est Moi (Aug 12, 2018)

Elsie said:


> How could a sperm and egg/ovum exist from nothing?  Maybe when you said "nothing" you didn't mean there is only nothingness everywhere, period, but you meant if sperm and ovum does not join, nothing (us) is created? ?


I believe in the SCIENCE of biology.   And I'm done with this discussion.   The topic is Do You Believe in an Afterlife and my response is "no."


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> The existence of "life after death" is self-fulfilling.* If you believe there is none, for you there won't be one.  If you believe there is, for you there will be.  And as for the "soul" or "spirit" surviving after our mortal death, it is really simple, too.  *For example, if you have a smart phone, you know that its data will automatically be backed up "to the cloud" unless you change the settings to stop it.  Even if the phone is destroyed, the data is still out there.  Our soul/spirit is the sum total of our life experiences and thoughts here on earth.  Those we still remember and those we have forgotten.  Those memories/thoughts/images/sensations (data) are "backed up to the cloud" by some process as yet unknown, unless you have selected to turn off that process.  My personal opinion is that the unknown process is triggered by prayer.   So, I will have an after-life, not bodily, but my spirit will live on, and I will be reunited with the love ones that have preceded me in earthly death.



So you believe that in order to have an afterlife you have to believe that there's one?  What if all your loved ones didn't believe?  Or your baby died before understanding the concept of an afterlife?  Exceptions to the rule, perhaps?   

I believe in a Creator and have a spiritual relationship with Him/Her, but man-made religions leaves me cold.  
Whatever comes after this will almost certainly be the fate of us all.


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## Elsie (Aug 12, 2018)

Hoot n Annie, Have you heard of the Holy Trinity?  God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?  I believe that we have a soul.  Not a soul that retains all the data of our lives, but is a part of our being given from God that never dies.  The Holy Trinity is sent by God to dwell in all who except Christ Jesus into their hearts as Savior.  He silently guides us with knowledge of what is right, or what is wrong.  But He does not stop us from choosing to do either, not even what is wrong.  God has given us the freedom to live as we will, so the Holy Spirit leaves our choices up to us. 
At our physical body's death, our soul returns to God, and of course, the Holy Spirit does also...........


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## Lara (Aug 12, 2018)

Hoot N Annie (post#119)...This makes it abundantly easy and clear to understand. It's brilliantly explained and meets everyone where they're at. "If you believe there is no life after death, for you there won't be one. If you believe there is, for you there will be". And your phone/cloud/backup analogy is also excellent. 

I've always thought about how our brain records our data (memories, thoughts,images,sensations as you said). Which explains dejá vu maybe. The brain goes into rewind and then forward at rare times. It's all data backed to "the cloud". Which is an archaic way of looking at it as compared to what's really going on but is certainly a valid way to express it on Man's level of understanding.

I do believe I will be given a new spiritual body in eternal life. I'm intrigued and confused by one sentence, Hoot... "My personal opinion is that the process is triggered by prayer". Hmm, I don't know exactly what you mean. But I do feel prayer is a way to have a deep personal relationship with God through prayerful conversation.
Elsie, I also believe in the Trinity  The data of our lives is what will be reviewed by God on Judgement Day. It sounds scary but it's not. Because God will not punish believers for the bad things, but rather reward them for the good things (Christ paid the punishment for the bad things already).

Star Song, babies will have an afterlife. They are too young to have heard or read the Gospel. All children, up to an unknown accountable age will be given an after life. Anyone who has never heard or read the Gospel will be given an afterlife because they never had the chance to choose to believe or not to believe.



Hoot N Annie said:


> The existence of "life after death" is self-fulfilling. If you believe there is none, for you there won't be one.  If you believe there is, for you there will be.





			
				Lara said:
			
		

> This makes it abundantly easy and clear to understand. It's brilliantly explained and meets everyone where they're at. "If you believe there is no life after death, for you there won't be one. If you believe there is, for you there will be".


Let me clarify my reply to Hoot. I believe that if you believe there is NO life after death, for you there won't be a Spiritual life after death. If you believe there IS life after death then for you there will be a Spiritual life. The word "spiritual" is key.  

I believe there will be an after-life for all. The ones who are entering into a spiritual life will appear before a different judgement seat though. Their sins will not be judged but rather their good things rewarded. The ones who are spiritually dead will face another judgement seat and judged by a different set of standards. Both seats will be judged by Jesus. That's what the Bible says. Remember, I'm not pushing anyone to change their mind. I'm posting it for biblical clarity. This is my belief. My personal choice to believe the Bible.


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## Keesha (Aug 12, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> The existence of "life after death" is self-fulfilling. If you believe there is none, for you there won't be one.  If you believe there is, for you there will be.  And as for the "soul" or "spirit" surviving after our mortal death, it is really simple, too.  For example, if you have a smart phone, you know that its data will automatically be backed up "to the cloud" unless you change the settings to stop it.  Even if the phone is destroyed, the data is still out there.  Our soul/spirit is the sum total of our life experiences and thoughts here on earth.  Those we still remember and those we have forgotten.  Those memories/thoughts/images/sensations (data) are "backed up to the cloud" by some process as yet unknown, unless you have selected to turn off that process.  My personal opinion is that the unknown process is triggered by prayer.   So, I will have an after-life, not bodily, but my spirit will live on, and I will be reunited with the love ones that have preceded me in earthly death.



Nicely expressed. 


I believe in science also. Majored in Biology. 
For myself, Science and God ( our creator )  are synonymous.


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2018)

As it happens I believe in life after death so apparently I've made the cut.


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## Buckeye (Aug 12, 2018)

Lara said:


> This makes it abundantly easy and clear to understand. It's brilliantly explained and meets everyone where they're at. "If you believe there is no life after death, for you there won't be one. If you believe there is, for you there will be". And your phone/cloud/backup analogy is also excellent.
> 
> I've always thought about how our brain records our data (memories, thoughts,images,sensations as you said). Which explains dejá vu maybe. The brain goes into rewind and then forward at rare times. It's all data backed to "the cloud". Which is an archaic way of looking at it as compared to what's really going on but is certainly a valid way to express it on Man's level of understanding.
> 
> ...



I'm just expressing my idea that we can't know all the details, at least yet.  Does the "backup" occur continuously or in some "batch mode", and what about bad memories that we would just as soon forget?  I dunno.  But, since we are supposed to pray, I'm suggesting that the act of prayer, no matter how briefly we pray, may be what creates the "data transmission" - it isn't just our words, but God also hears what's in our heart and mind and stores it.

And as for children and babies - the default position on your phone is for the backup to occur, and only stops when you tell it to stop.  Same with ourselves.  Infants and children are not old enough to have changed the "factory settings".


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## Sunny (Aug 12, 2018)

> The existence of "life after death" is self-fulfilling. If you believe  there is none, for you there won't be one.  If you believe there is, for  you there will be. And as for the "soul" or "spirit" surviving after our mortal death, it  is really simple, too.  For example, if you have a smart phone, you know  that its data will automatically be backed up "to the cloud" unless you  change the settings to stop it.  Even if the phone is destroyed, the  data is still out there.  Our soul/spirit is the sum total of our life  experiences and thoughts here on earth.  Those we still remember and  those we have forgotten.  Those memories/thoughts/images/sensations  (data) are "backed up to the cloud" by some process as yet unknown,  unless you have selected to turn off that process.  My personal opinion  is that the unknown process is triggered by prayer.   So, I will have an  after-life, not bodily, but my spirit will live on, and I will be  reunited with the love ones that have preceded me in earthly death.



And exactly how do you know that, Hoot N Annie?  What if the exact opposite is true?  What if (as I believe) it's all nonsense? We could just as well say, "For those who believe in the Tooth Fairy, and click their heels together
three times, she will be waiting for them after they die. But only if they truly believe in her."

Your analogy with The Cloud is hilarious. So maybe it turns out that Steve Jobs was God?


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2018)

Sunny said:


> And exactly how do you know that, Hoot N Annie?  What if the exact opposite is true?  What if (as I believe) it's all nonsense? We could just as well say, "For those who believe in the Tooth Fairy, and click their heels together
> three times, she will be waiting for them after they die. But only if they truly believe in her."
> 
> Your analogy with The Cloud is hilarious. So maybe it turns out that Steve Jobs was God?



You and I must be different religions, Sunny.  I never could believe in Apple products and therefore expect Bill Gates will be in charge...


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## Elsie (Aug 12, 2018)

"....For those who believe in the Tooth Fairy, and click their heels together
 three times, she will be waiting for them after they die. But only if they truly believe in her...."  
Now that would really be funny if I clicked my heels together now while still alive and some tooth fairy dentist came and repaired my teeth.


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## Sunny (Aug 12, 2018)

StarSong, let's hope it isn't Mark Zuckerberg! :rofl1:


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## StarSong (Aug 12, 2018)

LOL Sunny!


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## Catlady (Aug 14, 2018)

I am not religious.  I do believe in a Creator, living things and the Universe is simply too complex to have ''just happened''.  BUT, I think they we are born from nothing and end up in nothing.  I don't believe in the bible, either, it was written by men, but even the bible says "dust you are and dust you will become'' (something of the sort).  So, why do ''religious people'' ignore the bible and believe in a hereafter?   As to the soul, has anyone ever seen a soul or has any soul ever come back to tell you about that hereafter?  I try to be a good person only because it makes me feel good, not because I will roast in hell or fly about with wings in heaven when I die.


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## Sunny (Aug 15, 2018)

> "....For those who believe in the Tooth Fairy, and click their heels together
> three times, she will be waiting for them after they die. But only if they truly believe in her...."
> Now that would really be funny if I clicked my heels together now while  still alive and some tooth fairy dentist came and repaired my teeth.



Elsie, if she charged less than my current dentist, I'd become a believer!


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## Buckeye (Aug 15, 2018)

Sunny said:


> And exactly how do you know that, Hoot N Annie?  What if the exact opposite is true?  What if (as I believe) it's all nonsense? We could just as well say, "For those who believe in the Tooth Fairy, and click their heels together
> three times, she will be waiting for them after they die. But only if they truly believe in her."
> 
> Your analogy with The Cloud is hilarious. So maybe it turns out that Steve Jobs was God?



The thread is about what we believe, and I have no desire to convince you I am right. This topic comes up a lot on these sites, and I have noticed one glaring fact - non-believers seem to be driven to try to humiliate/make fun of believers with comments about tooth fairies and Santa Claus and Sky daddy (Steve Jobs was a new one), while believers make no such attempt to belittle non-believers, and are typically respectful.  I wonder why that is....


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## Macfan (Aug 15, 2018)

So many questions for Jesus to answer upon his return, and the list keeps growing. Don...


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