# Get Ready, Florida



## Don M. (Sep 5, 2017)

Just as the horrific damage to Houston is starting to come into full focus, another, and even stronger hurricane, Irma, may well be headed for Florida.  It would probably be wise for anyone living in that State to pay close attention to the weather news, and start planning their escape.

https://weather.com/storms/hurrican...rricane-warning-puerto-rico-leeward-islands-0


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## Buckeye (Sep 5, 2017)

^^^ What he said!  ^^^^


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## Trade (Sep 5, 2017)

I'm watching it closely over here in Mobile, Alabama. It could very easily hit us too. We're only about 50 miles west of Pensacola Florida.


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## hangover (Sep 5, 2017)

Trade said:


> I'm watching it closely over here in Mobile, Alabama. It could very easily hit us too. We're only about 50 miles west of Pensacola Florida.



Pack your stuff and get out while the getting is good. Don't be a victim. You can always come back if it misses your place. This is going to be more Trump Karma. It's sad that so many have to pay for his stupidity. But then, all these states that are getting hit, voted for him. I think Irma is going to be a lot worse than Harvey....it's already a cat 5.


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## Trade (Sep 5, 2017)

hangover said:


> Pack your stuff and get out while the getting is good. Don't be a victim. You can always come back if it misses your place. This is going to be more Trump Karma. It's sad that so many have to pay for his stupidity. But then, all these states that are getting hit, voted for him. I think Irma is going to be a lot worse than Harvey....it's already a cat 5.



I'm 25 miles from the Gulf and on relatively high ground, 95 feet above sea level and my house is a solid old school brick one built in 1960. It's been through many Hurricanes in it's time. And Irma is still a couple of thousand miles away. The forecast is still up in the air for here. It might hit us in a week or so. Or it might miss us by 500 miles. So I'm not ready to panic just yet.


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## Falcon (Sep 5, 2017)

hangover said:


> Pack your stuff and get out while the getting is good. Don't be a victim. You can always come back if it misses your place. This is going to be more Trump Karma. It's sad that so many have to pay for his stupidity. But then, all these states that are getting hit, voted for him. I think Irma is going to be a lot worse than Harvey....it's already a cat 5.



What does Trump have to do with this ?


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## hangover (Sep 5, 2017)

Falcon said:


> What does Trump have to do with this ?



Trump is causing the disasters with his treatment of Mexicans and Muslims. "You shall reap what you sow." Bigotry and hate is powerful negative energy. There are also wild fires burning up the west, because Trump cut funding to the forest service.


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## Lolly (Sep 5, 2017)

hangover said:


> Pack your stuff and get out while the getting is good. Don't be a victim. You can always come back if it misses your place. This is going to be more Trump Karma. It's sad that so many have to pay for his stupidity. But then, all these states that are getting hit, voted for him. I think Irma is going to be a lot worse than Harvey....it's already a cat 5.



He has pretty much decimated FEMA... and here we may be facing TWO.. not just one major Hurricanes..  as well as wild fires...  He has also cut disaster relief funding from his budget...  Pretty sad for those who will be affected directly....  But ALL of us will be affected in some way for sure.


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## Timetrvlr (Sep 5, 2017)

The heat, humidity, bugs and hurricanes would have inspired me to move to the Rocky Mountains long ago!


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## Manatee (Sep 5, 2017)

We were going to visit my sister who lives in a beach town near Melbourne FL. We spoke to her on the phone last night, she is evacuating to higher ground.  We will visit next month, weather permitting.


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## jujube (Sep 5, 2017)

I decided to meander over to Wallymart today to get some water.  Water all gone.  ALL gone.  No water at Publix, either.  Well, thank goodness I have some empty containers for my own water.  Right now the projection is to hit Miami and go right up the middle of the state.  Guess who lives right in the middle of the state?  Yep, that would be me.

Saturday, we came home a month early from North Carolina so that the Spousal Equivalent could take his long-awaited bucket list motorcycle trip.  He was supposed to leave this weekend, but who knows now?  He doesn't want to leave me here alone if a hurricane is headed this way (I wholeheartedly agree...)  Nor does he want to head north if the hurricane ends up skipping up the coast, which it might.  We'll just have to sit and wait.  

We're pretty high and dry, so not worried about flooding.  Just the wind.  At least we have a new roof and chimney.  And 12 cans of tuna and half a bottle of vodka.  The essentials are taken care of.


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## Trade (Sep 5, 2017)

hangover said:


> Trump is causing the disasters with his treatment of Mexicans and Muslims. "You shall reap what you sow." Bigotry and hate is powerful negative energy. There are also wild fires burning up the west, because Trump cut funding to the forest service.



:lofl:


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## terry123 (Sep 5, 2017)

My sister in law and her mother have hotel reservations in northern Florida. My brother has to stay in Miami as he is a cop and will be assigned to the shelters as protection.


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## Shalimar (Sep 5, 2017)

Trade said:


> I'm watching it closely over here in Mobile, Alabama. It could very easily hit us too. We're only about 50 miles west of Pensacola Florida.


Stay safe Trade.


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## Buckeye (Sep 5, 2017)

jujube said:


> I decided to meander over to Wallymart today to get some water.  Water all gone.  ALL gone.  No water at Publix, either.  Well, thank goodness I have some empty containers for my own water.  Right now the projection is to hit Miami and go right up the middle of the state.  Guess who lives right in the middle of the state?  Yep, that would be me.
> 
> Saturday, we came home a month early from North Carolina so that the Spousal Equivalent could take his long-awaited bucket list motorcycle trip.  He was supposed to leave this weekend, but who knows now?  He doesn't want to leave me here alone if a hurricane is headed this way (I wholeheartedly agree...)  Nor does he want to head north if the hurricane ends up skipping up the coast, which it might.  We'll just have to sit and wait.
> 
> We're pretty high and dry, so not worried about flooding.  Just the wind.  At least we have a new roof and chimney.  And 12 cans of tuna and half a bottle of vodka.  The essentials are taken care of.



Jeebus, jujube - this is serious.  You'll need more vodka.  A lot more.


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## Trade (Sep 5, 2017)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Jeebus, jujube - this is serious.  You'll need more vodka.  A lot more.



The latest update now has it at 185 mph. That's a super storm!

What's really scary is that the force of a wind is geometric in relation to it's speed. So a 180 mph wind isn't twice as forceful as a 90 mile an hour wind. It's four times as forceful. 

Still too early to tell where the US mainland might be hit.


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## Happyflowerlady (Sep 5, 2017)

hangover said:


> Trump is causing the disasters with his treatment of Mexicans and Muslims. "You shall reap what you sow." Bigotry and hate is powerful negative energy. There are also wild fires burning up the west, because Trump cut funding to the forest service.



This thread is about a hurricane, and is not a political thread. Your personal opinion of our President has nothing to do with the hurricane, and it is totally OFF-TOPIC, hangover. 

Also, as Matrix has repeatedly stated, this is a friendly seniors forum, and personal insults to anyone, including the President, are just not allowed by the forum rules. 
Please try to stay on topic and be more agreeable in your comments about others. 
Thank you. HFL


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## Falcon (Sep 5, 2017)

Hope ALL in Florida  remain  safe and sound.

I'm watching all about the storm there  via  the various media.


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## Don M. (Sep 5, 2017)

This evening, the Weather Channel is calling Irma the worst hurricane in recorded history...with winds of 185 MPH.  If this thing holds together and hits the U.S., the devastation could equal or surpass anything Houston just went through.


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## Greyson (Sep 5, 2017)

[FONT=&quot](CNN)As Floridians cleared supermarkets of bottled water and emptied gas pumps, people in the northeastern Caribbean were making last minute-preparations before powerful Hurricane Irma hit their islands.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Late Tuesday, the massive Category 5 storm was almost upon islands like Antigua and Barbuda with near-record 185 mph sustained winds. In its 11 p.m. ET advisory, the US National Hurricane Center said the eye of the hurricane was 50 miles from the two islands.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The center of the storm was moving to the west-northwest at 15 mph.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The hurricane center said the extremely dangerous core of Irma would hit the northern Leeward Islands -- which include Antigua and Barbuda, St. Kitts and Nevis, and Anguilla -- Tuesday night or Wednesday morning.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It's too early to tell whether the storm will make landfall on the US mainland, but forecasts show it could turn toward Florida over the weekend.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Until the early 1950s, tropical storms and hurricanes were tracked by year and the order in which they occurred during that year. Over time, it was learned that the use of short, easily remembered names in written as well as spoken communications is quicker and reduces confusion when two or more tropical storms occur at the same time. In the past, confusion and false rumors resulted when storm advisories broadcast from radio stations were mistaken for warnings concerning an entirely different storm located hundreds of miles away.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In 1953, the United States began using female names for storms and, by 1978, both male and female names were used to identify Northern Pacific storms. This was then adopted in 1979 for storms in the Atlantic basin.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]NOAA’s National Hurricane Center does not control the naming of tropical storms. Instead, there is a strict procedure established by the World Meteorological Organization. For Atlantic hurricanes, there is a list of male and female names which are used on a six-year rotation. The only time that there is a change is if a storm is so deadly or costly that the future use of its name on a different storm would be inappropriate. In the event that more than twenty-one named tropical cyclones occur in a season, any additional storms will take names from the Greek alphabet.[/FONT]


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## Butterfly (Sep 5, 2017)

hangover said:


> Trump is causing the disasters with his treatment of Mexicans and Muslims. "You shall reap what you sow." Bigotry and hate is powerful negative energy. There are also wild fires burning up the west, because Trump cut funding to the forest service.



As much as I disapprove of Trump, I think it is a wee bit of a stretch blaming him for hurricanes and wildfires.


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## jujube (Sep 5, 2017)

I just watched the 1 a.m. news.  Now they're projecting that it might come up the east coast of Florida.  They were showing a semi loaded up with water and other supplies that was supposed to go to Texas......now it's going to stay in the parking lot in Brevard County in case it's needed.  Every town in the area is gearing up for sandbag distribution tomorrow.  

Lord have mercy, what is happening to our country?  My sister who lives in Seattle said she woke up this morning to ash all over everything from the fires in Cle Elum, an hour and a half away.


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## jujube (Sep 5, 2017)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Jeebus, jujube - this is serious.  You'll need more vodka.  A lot more.



All is not lost.  I have a hidden stash of tequila if it gets blowing really bad.  And I found two  more cans of tuna.


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## Shalimar (Sep 6, 2017)

jujube said:


> All is not lost.  I have a hidden stash of tequila if it gets blowing really bad.  And I found two  more cans of tuna.


No sweets?


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## Ruthanne (Sep 6, 2017)

jujube said:


> I decided to meander over to Wallymart today to get some water.  Water all gone.  ALL gone.  No water at Publix, either.  Well, thank goodness I have some empty containers for my own water.  Right now the projection is to hit Miami and go right up the middle of the state.  Guess who lives right in the middle of the state?  Yep, that would be me.
> 
> Saturday, we came home a month early from North Carolina so that the Spousal Equivalent could take his long-awaited bucket list motorcycle trip.  He was supposed to leave this weekend, but who knows now?  He doesn't want to leave me here alone if a hurricane is headed this way (I wholeheartedly agree...)  Nor does he want to head north if the hurricane ends up skipping up the coast, which it might.  We'll just have to sit and wait.
> 
> We're pretty high and dry, so not worried about flooding.  Just the wind.  At least we have a new roof and chimney.  And 12 cans of tuna and half a bottle of vodka.  The essentials are taken care of.


Keeping you in prayer.


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## Greyson (Sep 6, 2017)

Ruthanne said:


> Keeping you in prayer.


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## Pappy (Sep 6, 2017)

We will be leaving to our home in Florida around the 10th of October. If it does go up the east coast, we can kiss everything goodbye unless it weakens a whole lot. I don't know which is worst. Sitting up here in NY or being down there going nuts worrying about where to go to get away from this monster. 
Drink that vodka now, jujube, and keep your fingers crossed that it stays south.


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## Lara (Sep 6, 2017)

I'm praying for all of our Florida members here and wherever it goes from there. Everyone be safe...evacuate when it's mandatory. I hear there's a big party over at jujube's


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## Greyson (Sep 6, 2017)




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## Lolly (Sep 6, 2017)

This is all really frightening.. two major Hurricanes in two weeks?   I understand there is another one brewing way out in the Atlantic...


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## Katybug (Sep 6, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> As much as I disapprove of Trump, I think it is a wee bit of a stretch blaming him for hurricanes and wildfires.



Same here, Butterfly.


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## jujube (Sep 6, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> No sweets?



It's a good time to go on a diet.....I might just grow fins instead. 

Central Florida is in full panic mode.  For many years, lots of people have been ho-hum about a hurricane supposedly coming.  Lay in a jug of water, maybe some canned soup but no biggee.  I'll admit I've been one of them for years.  I remember my first hurricane after I moved here in 1978.  Among other things, I bought 20 cans of Spam.  Why?  HURRICANE COMING!!! END OF THE WORLD!!!!  BUY SPAM!!!  LOTS OF SPAM!!!!

The Spousal Equivalent just headed up to Wally Mart and Home Depot to try to get some water and plastic drop cloths.  I'll bet there won't be hide nor tail of either.  He carries and I made him promise he wouldn't draw on anyone trying to take the last jug of water from him - lol.  The TV just showed a big warehouse store in Jacksonville with lines from the back of the store to the cash registers and they're not letting people in until a lot of people leave.  Yesterday we passed a line of cars at least three blocks long waiting to get into a Costco.  

It's always a crap shoot on whether to prepare like hell, prepare like heck or prepare very little.  If you prepare like hell and nothing happens, you're stuck with 20 cans of Spam you'll never eat and ten years worth of candles.  We're not boarding the windows.  I will fill up my huge municipal wheeled garbage can with water to use for flushing the toilet.  At the last minute, I'll fill up every container in the house with drinking water.  My walk-in closet is the safest place in the house with no exterior walls, so I'll clear the floor and throw some pillows in there in case we have to hunker down.  We have a small grill and some charcoal.  Having just come back from North Carolina, there's not much in the refrigerator and freezer to spoil, so that's good.  

And then there's always the "moral dilemma".  Dear Lord, don't let it hit us.....but if it doesn't hit us, it'll hit someone else.  Should I pray for that?  I have no animosity toward the Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, New York, Massachusetts coasts or Texas, Louisiana, Alabama.  I wouldn't want it to hit them, either.  I guess the only thing I can pray for is that Irma decides for some reason to make a U-turn and head back out to sea but that's not likely.  We could use some help on that.....any who pray out there, get to work please.  

Update:  S.E. just called from Wally Mart.  Snagged a couple of tarps but still no water.  Tuna has been wiped out, Chunky Soup has been decimated, no canned meats left.  Said there was a woman sobbing in the aisle.  I think Harvey has scared a bunch of people very badly.  This is also a somewhat low-income Wally Mart, also, so that may have a lot to do with it.....people who don't think they have the money to get prepared.


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## Trade (Sep 6, 2017)

The latest forecast track is farther to the east. If that holds we won't see much of anything from the storm here in Mobile. If it tracks farther east Florida might be spared the worst of it too as that would put the strong side of the storm (east) offshore in the Atlantic. We have an early cold front moving through here today. Tomorrow morning the low is expected to be around 60 which is fairly cool for this early in the year in these parts. Hopefully that's going to keep the Hurricane out of the Gulf and maybe even push it off the coast of Florida into the Atlantic. All this of course is speculation as it's still early.


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## Don M. (Sep 6, 2017)

We woke up this morning to a temperature of 46 degrees...there is a strong Canadian cold front passing through the midwest, and it may be strong enough to deflect this Hurricane slightly, and push the worst of it away from the Gulf coast, and even much of Florida.  By this coming weekend, the folks in Florida should either be in crisis mode, or counting their lucky stars.


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## Trade (Sep 6, 2017)

Lara said:


> I'm praying for all of our Florida members here and wherever it goes from there. Everyone be safe...evacuate when it's mandatory. I hear there's a big party over at jujube's



If this latest eastward trend holds Florida might catch a break. It will still be bad, but not as bad as it might have been. However that will put the Carolinas in the line of fire.

But I wouldn't bet money on anything yet. I've lived in Hurricane country all my life and I have seen these things do some crazy things.


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## helenbacque (Sep 6, 2017)

I saw Homestead FL after Andrew and Charleston SC after Hugo.  Not pretty sights.   I believe in being prepared but don't go into panic mode.


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## Mrs. Robinson (Sep 6, 2017)

My son in law is a lineman here in California. Got a call today asking if he`s available to go to Florida and he said yes. So I guess they will leave soon. Haven`t heard yet if my grandson will be going too-he`s a lineman as well.


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## WhatInThe (Sep 6, 2017)

Florida promotes Hurricane preperation in like in June. How can people not have at least one extra unopened case  of water or few jugs laying around all summer. For 10 bucks people could buy a case of water, a flash light, some batteries and start accumulating dry or canned foods. No reason for the lines or bare shelves almost a week before landfall. They also should have had a go bag with some extra clothing, toiletries and/or supplies. Hello, Florida, storms and HURRICANES. Yes it can happen to you where you live.

One thing many over look when buying candles for an emergency is the hurricane/glass cover so a gust of wind doesn't turn a candle flame into a fire. And tie back the curtains if you are using candles.

Then you have the amateur preppers with  10 filled gas containers in their garage for their generators all summer which not only could turn into a combustion or flame problem but gas can go bad, especially in heat and humidity. And that's another thing. During hurricane season one should always keep at least a half of tank of gas in the car which means start thinking about topping off the tank every time they approach half full.


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## hangover (Sep 6, 2017)

Trade said:


> The latest update now has it at 185 mph. That's a super storm!
> 
> What's really scary is that the force of a wind is geometric in relation to it's speed. So a 180 mph wind isn't twice as forceful as a 90 mile an hour wind. It's four times as forceful.
> 
> Still too early to tell where the US mainland might be hit.



Weather Channel says that a cat 5 is 500 times stronger than a cat 1....they think it will be a cat four when it hit Florida, which is 250 times stronger than a cat 1. I don't think it's going to die out when it gets done with Florida. Karma, karma, karma.

I used to live in Enterprise Alabama, when JFK was assassinated. Are you a boiled goober eater? I had a big can last night. I used to sell them on the street when I was a kid.


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## hangover (Sep 6, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> As much as I disapprove of Trump, I think it is a wee bit of a stretch blaming him for hurricanes and wildfires.



Just think of all the stuff Trump has blamed on Obama, and all the stuff Trump has blamed on Mexicans and Muslims. Think of all the stuff Trump has blamed on congress....Then tell me his Karma isn't causing this.


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## Trade (Sep 6, 2017)

hangover said:


> Weather Channel says that a cat 5 is 500 times stronger than a cat 1....



Wrong a category 5 is 500 million times as strong as a category 1. It has enough energy in it to light up the entire Milkyway galaxy for 10,000 years.

I mean if we're going to go for hyperbole let's go big.


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## Trade (Sep 6, 2017)

hangover said:


> I used to live in Enterprise Alabama, when JFK was assassinated. Are you a boiled goober eater? I had a big can last night. I used to sell them on the street when I was a kid.



My younger son has a good friend who is from Enterprise. The way things are in small town Alabama, he's probably one of your cousins.


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## Trade (Sep 6, 2017)

hangover said:


> Are you a boiled goober eater? I had a big can last night. I used to sell them on the street when I was a kid.



When I eat peanuts it's usually in the form of Peanut butter. I like the Smuckers all natural. And I usually mix some honey in with it. But I don't eat a whole lot of peanuts. I have an allergy to them. Not the kind that sends you into anaphylactic shock and kills you. Just the kind that gives you a stuffy nose.


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## Happyflowerlady (Sep 6, 2017)

hangover said:


> Just think of all the stuff Trump has blamed on Obama, and all the stuff Trump has blamed on Mexicans and Muslims. Think of all the stuff Trump has blamed on congress....Then tell me his Karma isn't causing this.


Again, hangover, this is NOT supposed to be a political thread, and ALL political discussions are to be kept strictly in the political section of this forum. 
We have a lot of nice people in this forum, and mixed political viewpoints, but you are the only one that I see here throwing in Trump-bashing where it has no business being, and even your own friends here are trying to tell you that this is NOT  appropriate. Get a Clue, buddy ! 

Also, I do not understand why you are bringing karma into the discussion at all.   Karma is basically the retribution that comes back to a person from committing evil deeds. 
You are strongly implying that this hurricane will continue to devastate the people living on the Atlantic coastline, and that they are having the hurricane because of karma. 
Surely you are NOT suggesting that all of these people who suffered through hurricane Harvey, and will soon be being overwhelmed with hurricane Irma, are DESERVING this hurricane ?


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## mimento mori (Sep 6, 2017)

I am sorry @hangover but you seem to have missed the entire point of Karma.  If I punched someone for no reason then I would be setting up a negative situation whereby I and ONLY I will suffer from it.  If Trump's negative karma has ANYTHING to do with natural disasters then your own negative vibrations in the ethereal dimensions is going to cause a collapse in the time space continuum!    Karma can be a real b****h sometimes especially when you apply it to everyone else and take no note of it as it might apply to yourself.


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## Manatee (Sep 6, 2017)

Lolly said:


> This is all really frightening.. two major Hurricanes in two weeks?   I understand there is another one brewing way out in the Atlantic...



That one is Jose, and it is tracking along behind Irma.

We went to the store this afternoon.  They were doing a booming business in bottled water, bread, peanut butter and jelly.  We stopped at the gas station on the way home.  Gas has jumped to $2.65, it had been $2.18 before the Houston storm.  No lines, but every pump was going and a few cars waiting.


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## Butterfly (Sep 6, 2017)

jujube said:


> It's a good time to go on a diet.....I might just grow fins instead.
> 
> Central Florida is in full panic mode.  For many years, lots of people have been ho-hum about a hurricane supposedly coming.  Lay in a jug of water, maybe some canned soup but no biggee.  I'll admit I've been one of them for years.  I remember my first hurricane after I moved here in 1978.  Among other things, I bought 20 cans of Spam.  Why?  HURRICANE COMING!!! END OF THE WORLD!!!!  BUY SPAM!!!  LOTS OF SPAM!!!!
> 
> ...



Oh, God!!  Anything but SPAM!!!  When I was a kid, Spam was a "we're really short of money this week" food, and for a while when I was a little bitty kid we got Spam a LOT.  I loathe Spam, and though I voiced my opinion of Spam, nobody cared -- around my house you ate what was put in front of  you or you didn't eat at all.  I got really good at eating around the Spam and at surreptitiously sneaking the stuff to the dog.  I got a lot of lectures of how children starving in Japan were somehow harmed by my refusal to eat Spam.  Nobody could ever really explain to me how that worked, but I got told "don't talk back to your mother" when I asked how that worked.  I'm still trying to figure out how my hatred of Spam hurt children starving in Japan.


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## Pappy (Sep 7, 2017)

Had trouble sleeping last night. Kept thinking if we are going to have anything left when we go back in October. We can't stay here, in NY, as the Campgrounds close on the 15th Oct. Our only hope is that it turns off shore a few miles. We are about 5-8 miles inland from the Ocean. I just realized......we could very well be homeless.


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## Happyflowerlady (Sep 7, 2017)

Pappy said:


> Had trouble sleeping last night. Kept thinking if we are going to have anything left when we go back in October. We can't stay here, in NY, as the Campgrounds close on the 15th Oct. Our only hope is that it turns off shore a few miles. We are about 5-8 miles inland from the Ocean. I just realized......we could very well be homeless.



That is a horrible thought, Pappy, and I am still hoping and praying that (somehow), it will go further east into the Atlantic and not devastate Florida. 
Maybe the trailer park can stay open this winter ? Surely, you aren't the only folks there with a winter home in Florida, and everyone would be in about the same position as you are, with no winter home to go back to.


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## helenbacque (Sep 7, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how my hatred of Spam hurt children starving in Japan.


.  

How interesting.  At my dinner table, it was children in China who were starving.  I never heard of the ones in Japan.  I also wondered how me not cleaning my plate would affect them but didn't dare ask.  You were brave.


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## Lolly (Sep 7, 2017)

This is truly horrifying!


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## hangover (Sep 7, 2017)

Happyflowerlady said:


> Again, hangover, this is NOT supposed to be a political thread, and ALL political discussions are to be kept strictly in the political section of this forum.
> We have a lot of nice people in this forum, and mixed political viewpoints, but you are the only one that I see here throwing in Trump-bashing where it has no business being, and even your own friends here are trying to tell you that this is NOT  appropriate. Get a Clue, buddy !
> 
> Also, I do not understand why you are bringing karma into the discussion at all.   Karma is basically the retribution that comes back to a person from committing evil deeds.
> ...


Obviously I put a burr in your bonnet the way Trump does with me. I was replying to Butterfly, it wasn't anything to do with you. Yet you want to look down your nose at me. Here's a clue, my thoughts on what's causing all these disasters are just as relevant as anyone else's. But maybe if others considered the possibility of Trump's negative treatment of so many being the cause, more disasters wouldn't be on the way. There's hurricane Jose behind Irma, and the whole west is on fire. There are 68 wild fires in Montana alone. Many more in California, Oregon, and Washington. There are earthquakes all around Yellowstone in Wyoming and Idaho. Is it really going to take a super volcano eruption in Yellowstone, before Karma is considered?

It's like Sodom and Gomorrah.....those people didn't consider Karma either.


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## Camper6 (Sep 7, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Oh, God!!  Anything but SPAM!!!  When I was a kid, Spam was a "we're really short of money this week" food, and for a while when I was a little bitty kid we got Spam a LOT.  I loathe Spam, and though I voiced my opinion of Spam, nobody cared -- around my house you ate what was put in front of  you or you didn't eat at all.  I got really good at eating around the Spam and at surreptitiously sneaking the stuff to the dog.  I got a lot of lectures of how children starving in Japan were somehow harmed by my refusal to eat Spam.  Nobody could ever really explain to me how that worked, but I got told "don't talk back to your mother" when I asked how that worked.  I'm still trying to figure out how my hatred of Spam hurt children starving in Japan.



The Japanese made the tin cans that Spam came in possibly. So therefore their economy suffered and the Japanese starved.

When my mother told me that, I would just say, send it over there.  

But now? I love the stuff.  I bake it with cloves just like a regular ham.  That's all it is anyway is pressed ham.

Now that I have to buy my own groceries and have fed my own family, I realized how tough it must have been on poor families trying their best to stretch the food dollar any way they could.

Just tell the kid you don't have to eat your lunch if you don't want to.

Then they will show up at dinner/supper with their napkin tucked in and knife and fork at the ready and everything tastes good.


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## jujube (Sep 7, 2017)

I've heard that a case of Spam is a considered a nice wedding present in Japan.  Too bad I got rid of all that Spam that I bought for that hurricane back then.  I could have been invited to a Japanese wedding and had nothing to bring.  Bummer.  

Latest news is that Irma is turning slightly to the east, so might not go directly over us.  My Protestant guilt is acting up again.....should I be happy about that knowing that it means it will hit someone else?  

We've done everything we can do to get ready.  It's just wait and wait and wait now.


----------



## Lolly (Sep 7, 2017)

I never minded Spam.... but of course not a steady diet of it..


----------



## Linda W. (Sep 7, 2017)

Back-to-back hurricanes. People may be a bit panicking because scenes of Texas flooding and damages were everywhere on TV and web and now this. I wish them luck! DH just got back from Florida on Tuesday because his father had passed away. It might be his last real trip. He doesn't tolerate travel well, but felt like he had to go.


----------



## Don M. (Sep 7, 2017)

Now, the governor of Georgia has issued warnings for that state's Eastern counties.

http://www.ajc.com/weather/hurrican...under-state-emergency/6WgtbgDj9R3GfV8Uim14rM/

This coming weekend, and into next week is going to be hairy for those in Florida, and along the SE shores.


----------



## jujube (Sep 7, 2017)

helenbacque said:


> .
> 
> How interesting.  At my dinner table, it was children in China who were starving.  I never heard of the ones in Japan.  I also wondered how me not cleaning my plate would affect them but didn't dare ask.  You were brave.



We had the starving African children.  According to my mother, a whole African village could live for a month on what I left on my plate.  I think it depended on where your church supported missionaries.  The Catholics tended toward China and the rest of the Orient, the Protestants toward Africa.  My father told  me once that he was chided with "the starving Armenians" on a regular basis but apparently that had run out before I was born.


----------



## chic (Sep 7, 2017)

Pappy said:


> Had trouble sleeping last night. Kept thinking if we are going to have anything left when we go back in October. We can't stay here, in NY, as the Campgrounds close on the 15th Oct. Our only hope is that it turns off shore a few miles. We are about 5-8 miles inland from the Ocean. I just realized......we could very well be homeless.



I'm so sorry Pappy. I hope the worst doesn't happen to you. Good thoughts and prayers coming your way.


----------



## jujube (Sep 7, 2017)

OK, it's coming right at us!  No, it's moved to the east!  No, it's shifted back around to the west!  No, it's coming right at us!  Every time I turn on the TV, it's a different story.  

I'm so tired of this already, I'm about to start making tequila and tuna cocktails.  With a cheese ball on top.  And if I had any of that Spam left from the last time, I'd put some of that in, too.  Death by Spam.


----------



## Shalimar (Sep 7, 2017)

Pappy said:


> Had trouble sleeping last night. Kept thinking if we are going to have anything left when we go back in October. We can't stay here, in NY, as the Campgrounds close on the 15th Oct. Our only hope is that it turns off shore a few miles. We are about 5-8 miles inland from the Ocean. I just realized......we could very well be homeless.


Prayers for the safety of your home.


----------



## Shalimar (Sep 7, 2017)

jujube said:


> OK, it's coming right at us!  No, it's moved to the east!  No, it's shifted back around to the west!  No, it's coming right at us!  Every time I turn on the TV, it's a different story.
> 
> I'm so tired of this already, I'm about to start making tequila and tuna cocktails.  With a cheese ball on top.  And if I had any of that Spam left from the last time, I'd put some of that in, too.  Death by Spam.


Amazed at your sense of humour. Wishing you and all those who could be affected the very best.


----------



## jujube (Sep 7, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> Amazed at your sense of humour. Wishing you and all those who could be affected the very best.



I can laugh or I can cry about it.  It's not going to impress Irma either way.....she's a bitch and I hope she swims out to sea and dies.


----------



## Shalimar (Sep 7, 2017)

jujube said:


> I can laugh or I can cry about it.  It's not going to impress Irma either way.....she's a bitch and I hope she swims out to sea and dies.


That's the spirit. You rock!


----------



## Giantsfan1954 (Sep 7, 2017)

It's possible in New York State to have a "hard frost" anytime after 10/15.
Pretty sure that's the reason they shut it down.
Also they need time to get the water lines drained and winterized.


----------



## Trade (Sep 7, 2017)

Shalimar said:


> Amazed at your sense of humour.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallows_humor


----------



## Pappy (Sep 8, 2017)

Giantsfan1954 said:


> It's possible in New York State to have a "hard frost" anytime after 10/15.
> Pretty sure that's the reason they shut it down.
> Also they need time to get the water lines drained and winterized.



Very true, Giantsfan. The water is turned off and the electricity is shut down. Campers are winterized and tucked in for winter.


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## hangover (Sep 8, 2017)

mimento mori said:


> I am sorry @hangover but you seem to have missed the entire point of Karma.  If I punched someone for no reason then I would be setting up a negative situation whereby I and ONLY I will suffer from it.  If Trump's negative karma has ANYTHING to do with natural disasters then your own negative vibrations in the ethereal dimensions is going to cause a collapse in the time space continuum!    Karma can be a real b****h sometimes especially when you apply it to everyone else and take no note of it as it might apply to yourself.



I don't think I missed the point at all....Consider that there were many innocent Germans during Hitler's Karma, that were against him, but they still paid for his actions. As far as myself paying for Trump's Karma, I think the whole country is paying, including myself.

The disasters just keep coming.....
http://idahostatejournal.com/news/local/earthquakes-since-saturday-night-worst-case-scenario-is-destructive-
temblor/article_00c16fb0-0a6b-58de-bd24-3d1a154ec6d0.html
There has been many earthquakes in Wyoming also.....the article says it has nothing to do with Yellowstone, but that maybe to keep people from panicking. Yellowstone is a super volcano. If it goes off, kiss this country goodbye.

I don't like being a gloomy Gus, but dang, how long before this country finally admits climate change is not "fake news"?
I know something about Karma, because I smoked for 40 years, and now I have to get a lung transplant.


----------



## Lara (Sep 8, 2017)

hangover said:


> I know something about Karma, because I smoked for 40 years, and now I have to get a lung transplant.


That's not Karma. That's called Natural Consequences. You knowingly made a poor choice. Now have to pay the consequence.


----------



## hangover (Sep 8, 2017)

Lara said:


> That's not Karma. That's called Natural Consequences. You knowingly made a poor choice. Now have to pay the consequence.



Sheesh! That is the definition of Karma. "You shall reap what you sow."


----------



## Lara (Sep 8, 2017)

Karma has a spiritual aspect attached relating to deeds...specifically Buddhism. "Whatever a man sows, this he will also reap" is Biblical btw. Galatians 6:7


----------



## RadishRose (Sep 8, 2017)

Irma, Jose and now Katia!

Hurricane  Katia is in the southern Gulf of Mexico. Forecasters with the National  Hurricane Center expect the Category 1 storm to strengthen to almost a  Category 3 storm before making landfall in Mexico. (Image via NOAA)             
                   1.2k


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## Don M. (Sep 8, 2017)

With all that's going on, this year may well go down as one of the worst in decades.  Thousands of people have lost everything they own, and few have the necessary insurance to recover.  Within the next week, Florida and the SE coastal area may be hit harder than Houston was last week.  

When I read about these events, it makes me glad that we settled in the "Boring" Midwest, where outside of a rare tornado, we have few natural events that cause major destruction.


----------



## oldman (Sep 8, 2017)

The closest hurricane that I had ever came close as a pilot to was in mid-August of '92. I had flown down to Miami from New York and stayed over that night. Andrew was expected to make land in Miami two days later. I was scheduled to fly to LA the next morning at 6:00 a.m. Miami International made a statement that they would be closing the airport at 8:00 p.m. on that same day. Without spelling out all the dribble, the FAA only allows planes to takeoff and land with "X" amount of maximum crosswinds. That morning when we left for LA, we already had crosswinds of 28 kts., which is getting really close to shutting down the runways. When I reached LA, I was informed that Miami was closing at 2:00 p.m. due to high crosswinds. Yes, a lot of passengers got stuck. Andrew was expected to hit Miami head on, but instead, hit just south in Homestead, which it devastated. Tailwinds and headwinds are one thing, but taking off or landing in very high crosswinds is a whole different adventure. 

Hurricane Andrew (Cat.5)




High crosswinds:


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## Trade (Sep 8, 2017)

I don't trust the forecast. Not 100%. They are counting on that cold front to cause the storm to make a hard right turn. If they are off by just a little bit this storm could end up in the Gulf. I won't feel relieved until it's north of us.


----------



## jujube (Sep 8, 2017)

The hard part here is not knowing where the bitch is going.  They've just recalibrated it to cross over the middle of the Keys now and then the eye to move up the southwest coast of Florida, which puts central Florida on the "bad" side (as if there is a "good" side.....)  Nerves are frayed.  I may be breaking out the tequila early.  

If it goes much further west, it might hit my 92-year-old mother's area.  Luckily, my sister and brother-in-law are there and have the camper packed and ready to head north if necessary.  

Those who evacuated are now sitting on I-75 and I-95, creeping along and worrying about the availability of gas.  Hotels and motels are packed.  The Disney parks are closing Sunday and Monday at least and they hardly EVER close.   Friends who  live in Sarasota just called from a RV park near Tallahassee, wondering if they should hitch up and move further north.   They wonder if they'll have a house to come home to when it's all over.

And then as if that bitch Irma isn't enough, her hermano bastardo Jose is out there waiting for his turn to storm in and bust up the bar.  OK, where's that tequila?

On the good news front.....I did win $5 on my lottery ticket on Wednesday.  Yay!  I can buy another jug of water.....if there was any to buy.


----------



## mimento mori (Sep 8, 2017)

I did not hit the quote button but I do have to reply to hangover and beg everyone's indulgence for I do apologize for being off topic beforehand. 

I do have to ask myself the question:  Why oh why do people seem to come out of the woodwork (or wherever) to place the blame of a natural disaster on person's or things rather than what they are?  Why can't you show some compassion for the people who are in the thick of things instead of throwing your totally imagined rhetoric around? 

I could have a wonderful conversation with you if you had some empirical proof that what you say is true but as it stands it is just hateful conjecture coming from an over imaginative mind.  Hate who you will but my Bible says not to hate.  Judge who you will but by your own standards you are committing virtually the same thing that you are accusing Trump AND those who voted for him.  Negativity brings about negativity and amigo, you are about as negative as they come.   Please stay on topic and I assure you sir, I will also.....

King David committed murder and took another man's wife and the only one it backfired on was him, not the entire nation of Israel.


----------



## chic (Sep 8, 2017)

I think the storm is veering west. They just warned several counties in Georgia on the Weather Channel.


----------



## Warrigal (Sep 8, 2017)

Lolly said:


> He has pretty much decimated FEMA... and here we may be facing TWO.. not just one major Hurricanes..  as well as wild fires...  He has also cut disaster relief funding from his budget...  Pretty sad for those who will be affected directly....  But ALL of us will be affected in some way for sure.



TWO?  Count again. Left to right - Irma, Jose and Katia. Harvey was just a foretaste.



And things will only get worse because vested interests continue to prevail.


----------



## Butterfly (Sep 8, 2017)

Camper6 said:


> The Japanese made the tin cans that Spam came in possibly. So therefore their economy suffered and the Japanese starved.
> 
> When my mother told me that, I would just say, send it over there.
> 
> ...



I was born right after WWII ended and Japan was in pretty bad shape.  I think the connection probably was that there were children in Japan who would be glad to get ANYTHING to eat and there I was turning up my nose at spam.  Or something like that.  I thought spam was gross then and I still think it's gross.  It's just a personal taste -- I don't like bologna, either.


----------



## Butterfly (Sep 8, 2017)

jujube said:


> OK, it's coming right at us!  No, it's moved to the east!  No, it's shifted back around to the west!  No, it's coming right at us!  Every time I turn on the TV, it's a different story.
> 
> I'm so tired of this already, I'm about to start making tequila and tuna cocktails.  With a cheese ball on top.  And if I had any of that Spam left from the last time, I'd put some of that in, too.  Death by Spam.



I think I'll have to pass on the tequila and tuna cocktails, with or without the spam.


----------



## Trade (Sep 9, 2017)

Well it's now headed towards Tampa. That could be real bad. Tampa has a lot of low areas like Houston and could easily flood. They haven't had a direct hit since 1921 when the population was about 10,000. Today there are three million in the Tampa metro area.

But then again, lately they have been moving the track farther west with every update. So who knows where it might end up?


----------



## hangover (Sep 9, 2017)

Lara said:


> Karma has a spiritual aspect attached relating to deeds...specifically Buddhism. "Whatever a man sows, this he will also reap" is Biblical btw. Galatians 6:7


It still apply's.


----------



## hangover (Sep 9, 2017)

mimento mori said:


> I did not hit the quote button but I do have to reply to hangover and beg everyone's indulgence for I do apologize for being off topic beforehand.
> 
> I do have to ask myself the question:  Why oh why do people seem to come out of the woodwork (or wherever) to place the blame of a natural disaster on person's or things rather than what they are?  Why can't you show some compassion for the people who are in the thick of things instead of throwing your totally imagined rhetoric around?
> 
> ...


I gave you the proof, showing that innocent Germans paid the price for Hitler's Karma...it's not imagined. You are being like Trump when he blamed the counter protesters for the hate in Charottesville Virginia. The haters were the white supremacists...the counter protesters were protesting their hate. The Bible says to hate evil.-Proverbs 8:13 According to your definition of Karma, all six million Jews that Hitler killed were guilty. Trump destroys the lives of 800,000 dreamers, and you accuse me of being negative. He demonizes Muslims, and causes them suffering, and you want to stay on topic after you've demonized me.

This is still maybe off topic, because Trade is in Mobil Alabama, not Florida....but I hope he gets out of there and takes a vacation up north for a week or so. With the shift, Mobil will probably get flooded. Trade, if you need a place for a few days, PM me.


----------



## mimento mori (Sep 9, 2017)

hangover said:


> I gave you the proof, showing that innocent Germans paid the price for Hitler's Karma...it's not imagined. You are being like Trump when he blamed the counter protesters for the hate in Charottesville Virginia. The haters were the white supremacists...the counter protesters were protesting their hate. The Bible says to hate evil.-Proverbs 8:13 According to your definition of Karma, all six million Jews that Hitler killed were guilty. Trump destroys the lives of 800,000 dreamers, and you accuse me of being negative. He demonizes Muslims, and causes them suffering, and you want to stay on topic after you've demonized me.
> 
> This is still maybe off topic, because Trade is in Mobil Alabama, not Florida....but I hope he gets out of there and takes a vacation up north for a week or so. With the shift, Mobil will probably get flooded. Trade, if you need a place for a few days, PM me.



Whatsoever YOU sew, So shall YOU reap!  And you are right, we are to hate evil. Committing Evil is an action not a person.  You might wish to leave Biblical knowledge to someone who knows a tad more about it.  Uh, on another thread you are placing Noah in Sodum.  Nope! Didn't happen.  

Bottom line is that you cannot give anyone anything more than your personal theory which is found in error because you cannot validate its authenticity as empirical fact.  
800,000 dreamers given the boot?  Nope, hasn't happened and as a matter of FACT, that particular proposition is still being litigated in the house.  

Now, how about throwing a few bucks toward hurricane relief to help out your own Karma.  Trump did.


----------



## hangover (Sep 9, 2017)

mimento mori said:


> Whatsoever YOU sew, So shall YOU reap!  And you are right, we are to hate evil. Committing Evil is an action not a person.  You might wish to leave Biblical knowledge to someone who knows a tad more about it.  Uh, on another thread you are placing Noah in Sodum.  Nope! Didn't happen.
> 
> Bottom line is that you cannot give anyone anything more than your personal theory which is found in error because you cannot validate its authenticity as empirical fact.
> 800,000 dreamers given the boot?  Nope, hasn't happened and as a matter of FACT, that particular proposition is still being litigated in the house.
> ...


You really love your negativity. Yeah, they laughed at Abraham at Sodom, but they laughed at Noah when he was building the ark. Just because I said Noah, you try to pretend that you know more about the bible than I do. So self righteous. Here's a clue...."Blessed are those the rightly divide the word of truth."

Truth is, Trump said he was going to end DACA, and promised to deport them before he even got elected as a campaign promise.

As far as me throwing in a few bucks, what makes you think I haven't? Because I don't brag about my giving? Do you really think that Trump's million dollar gift makes up for the banning of Muslims and the suffering it caused? Or the 800,000 that are going to suffer from ending DACA? How about his efforts to destroy healthcare, saying "just let it die"? How about him calling those on the side of the white supremacists being good people?

Sorry folks about all this off topic stuff, but I refuse to let a jackbooted thug grind his heel in my character, without a response.


----------



## jujube (Sep 9, 2017)

"Jackbooted thug"?  You can tell what people are wearing through your computer screen?  Oops, I better go put on a bathrobe.


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## hangover (Sep 9, 2017)

jujube said:


> "Jackbooted thug"?  You can tell what people are wearing through your computer screen?  Oops, I better go put on a bathrobe.



LOL...that's like him saying that evil is an action, not a person....like Hitler wasn't evil....nice robe!


----------



## Trade (Sep 10, 2017)

If the current track holds my old home grounds of Pinellas County is going to be devastated. They haven't had a direct hit since the 1920's when that area was a sparsely populated rural backwater. Now it has one of the highest population densities of any county in the US. Ever since I was a kid in school I had been hearing warnings from environmentalist types about the rampant virtually unregulated development that has been going on there and how it's being set up for a major disaster if a major hurricane hits. But those warnings have been unheeded and the development continued, a lot of it on fill land in order to maximize the number of lots that could be sold as "waterfront". It looks like those chickens are going to be coming home to roost.


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## Trade (Sep 10, 2017)

hangover said:


> This is still maybe off topic, because Trade is in Mobil Alabama, not Florida....but I hope he gets out of there and takes a vacation up north for a week or so. With the shift, Mobil will probably get flooded. Trade, if you need a place for a few days, PM me.



Downtown is low and subject to a storm surge. But like I said, I'm on high ground, 95 feet above sea level. I'm also relatively high compared to the nearby area. There are some poor schmucks about three blocks from me that are a good 30 feet lower than me. Even though they are well out of storm surge territory they could get flooded if we get a huge amount of rain. One thing I learned from living in Florida all my life. Before you buy property always check to make sure it's on high ground.


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## Butterfly (Sep 10, 2017)

Trade said:


> Downtown is low and subject to a storm surge. But like I said, I'm on high ground, 95 feet above sea level. I'm also relatively high compared to the nearby area. There are some poor schmucks about three blocks from me that are a good 30 feet lower than me. Even though they are well out of storm surge territory they could get flooded if we get a huge amount of rain. One thing I learned from living in Florida all my life. Before you buy property always check to make sure it's on high ground.



Trade, I've been wondering what flood insurance costs in those areas in Florida?  And does it cover everything or is there a huge deductible?  

Living where I do, I've never had to worry about floor insurance, flood plains and so on.  Back when I was a kid, it used to flood some here from flash  floods from our monsoons -- of course nothing to even compare to what's going on in Houston and Florida.  In the area I live in it used to get maybe a couple feet high at the very worst and maybe creep up onto your porch or a wee bit under your door.  We had damp carpet in the front room once from it doing that.  Down in the valley here it was much worse, but still no comparison.  Anyway, they solved the problem by putting in a flood drainage system which works great to drain off water down to arroyos and on to the Rio Grande.

I just can't imagine losing everything I own except the clothes on my back in a flood like Houston and starting over with absolutely nothing.  How do people cope?


----------



## Trade (Sep 10, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Trade, I've been wondering what flood insurance costs in those areas in Florida?  And does it cover everything or is there a huge deductible?
> 
> Living where I do, I've never had to worry about floor insurance, flood plains and so on.  Back when I was a kid, it used to flood some here from flash  floods from our monsoons -- of course nothing to even compare to what's going on in Houston and Florida.  In the area I live in it used to get maybe a couple feet high at the very worst and maybe creep up onto your porch or a wee bit under your door.  We had damp carpet in the front room once from it doing that.  Down in the valley here it was much worse, but still no comparison.  Anyway, they solved the problem by putting in a flood drainage system which works great to drain off water down to arroyos and on to the Rio Grande.
> 
> I just can't imagine losing everything I own except the clothes on my back in a flood like Houston and starting over with absolutely nothing.  How do people cope?



I don't know. Like I said, I wouldn't consider buying any property that was even remotely subject to flooding. Except Noah's Ark type flooding and then it wouldn't matter because all the insurance companies would go bankrupt anyway. 

I'm ambivalent about the whole flood insurance thing. I know some poor people get hurt by floods but I also see it abused in a lot of cases especially in Florida where mega rich people build these million dollar and up vacation homes on the ocean or gulf and then avail themselves of taxpayer subsidized flood insurance so that they can rebuild coutesy of the taxpayers in general when a storm takes them out. Of course most of these people are small government conservatives, but are only too happy to take big government socialism when it helps them. 

Then there's places like Dauphin Island which is about 25 miles south of us on the Gulf. It's got a population of about 1,200. And these are mostly well off people. Beachfront property isn't cheap. And yet time and time again with Hurricanes like Katrina and Ivan they have gotten tens of millions of dollars of free federal money to rebuild infrastructure. I know I sound like a communist when I say this, but we should not be allowing people to build in these areas. They should be basically reserved for parks and recreational use.


----------



## Jackie22 (Sep 10, 2017)

Can you just imagine what this will do to insurance rates for these areas.  My daughter's bf
is an insurance adjuster, the last few years he has been very very busy.


----------



## Trade (Sep 10, 2017)

Jackie22 said:


> Can you just imagine what this will do to insurance rates for these areas.  My daughter's bf
> is an insurance adjuster, the last few years he has been very very busy.



After the 2004 Hurricanes my homeowners insurance went from about $600 a year to $1600 a year. And that was without me filing a claim and being on high ground 75 miles inland. And it never went down again. 

My boss at the time was living on Vero Beach and commuting. His went up to $10,000 a year. But he was a real player. He got hit by two hurricanes and probably made about $30-$50,000 off of them. He really knew how to play the system. On both mandatory evacuations he rented a motor home and went on vacation. Once to Chicago, and once out to Nevada. All paid for by insurance. Plus he got two free chainsaws and two free generators from FEMA. He had a contractor buddy who repaired his house for about 1/2 of what he got from his insurance. After the Hurricane season was over he bought a bunch of new clothes and a new truck.

Ya gotta remember this was right before the 2004 election. And Bush and his brother Jeb, who was governor of Florida at the time made sure Florida got taken care of big time.


----------



## Don M. (Sep 10, 2017)

Jackie22 said:


> Can you just imagine what this will do to insurance rates for these areas.  My daughter's bf is an insurance adjuster, the last few years he has been very very busy.



There are early estimates as high as 180 billion for the damage done to Texas by hurricane Harvey, and Irma may cause that much, or more in Florida and the SE as it tracks inland.  FEMA is funded for only a small fraction of that amount, and most of those in Texas didn't have flood insurance....no reports, so far, on how many in the path of Irma have insurance.  If the insurance companies take a major hit, homeowners rates will rise....all over the nation.  If the government is stuck with the bulk of these costs, Congress is going to have to boost the National Debt by 10's, or 100's, of billions more.  Then...if/when all this damage is fixed, and paid for, another round of storms is surely going to hit and start the whole mess all over again.  

At some point, people are going to have to realize that living on the shorelines, and/or just a few feet above sea level, or major rivers is just asking for trouble.


----------



## mimento mori (Sep 10, 2017)

hangover said:


> You really love your negativity. Yeah, they laughed at Abraham at Sodom, but they laughed at Noah when he was building the ark. Just because I said Noah, you try to pretend that you know more about the bible than I do. So self righteous. Here's a clue...."Blessed are those the rightly divide the word of truth."
> 
> Truth is, Trump said he was going to end DACA, and promised to deport them before he even got elected as a campaign promise.
> 
> ...



What the Sam h*ll does any of that have to do with the bloody hurricanes!!!??  
If you came up with say, all of the global warming stuff, or all of the micro and radio waves warming up the atmosphere and oceans from nearly a billion computers and cell phones around those areas I might pay a little attention.  If you had said that the recent surge in solar flares or the 100,000 or so satellites jamming microwaves into the earth and oceans or even H.A.R.P. was causing the hurricanes I would have jumped to converse with you on some research about it.  

But heck no, you have to be the flippin' bully who keeps harping about some political karma that your much less than genius IQ can put the blame on.  Stop with the politics and errant Bible thumping and start showing real intelligence for a change.  

I perform real research and I study before I start hitting the key board when it comes to serious subjects.  
II Timothy 2:15.....Read it before you put Noah in Sodum again.

Seriously, I doubt if anyone wants to read your idiocy or my rebuttals and for my rebuttals I do humbly apologize to the good people of this forum.  They shouldn't be subjected to my or your garbage!


----------



## Trade (Sep 10, 2017)

hangover said:


> Trade, if you need a place for a few days, PM me.



Thanks Dude, but no thanks. I wish I could find a way to say this diplomatically but I can't come up with the right words. The fact is people that quote the Bible a lot creep me out. I'd rather take my chances with the storm.


----------



## Trade (Sep 10, 2017)




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## jujube (Sep 10, 2017)

Hangover, do you think there is any way you can give this a rest for a while?  Or at least, leave the hurricane thread and start your own thread?  It was getting annoying and now it's getting _very_ annoying.


----------



## Happyflowerlady (Sep 10, 2017)

jujube said:


> Hangover, do you think there is any way you can give this a rest for a while?  Or at least, leave the hurricane thread and start your own thread?  It was getting annoying and now it's getting _very_ annoying.


I agree with what you are saying completely, Jujube.  It is bad enough when someone deliberately drags a thread off-topic; but when contentious statements and rude insults are also part of that equation, then it is even worse. 
There is a whole political section where most of this can be discussed, and it does not need to destroy an important topic like these terrible storms we are having. 

It appears that Irma is not turning out to be as bad as they thought might happen, and for that I am thankful. Watching what happened in Texas, and to my dear friend, Ina, had me really worrying what might happen to our friends here in Florida, like you, and also Pappy, who has a home down there that he is hoping to be able to go back to next month. 
Now, it is being considered that the next storm, Jose, could go up the East Coast and make landfall in or around New York. 
I am really starting to wonder if the ancients had it right, and a solar eclipse is a bad omen.


----------



## Trade (Sep 10, 2017)

It's beginning to look like Tampa ans Pinellas County will catch a break. Irma is projected to be down to an 85 mph category one storm by the time it gets to them.


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## Don M. (Sep 10, 2017)

jujube said:


> Hangover, do you think there is any way you can give this a rest for a while?  Or at least, leave the hurricane thread and start your own thread?  It was getting annoying and now it's getting _very_ annoying.



Sometimes, on these online forums, you can learn quite a bit about a person by the "name" they chose.  In many cases, a Hangover is the result of an Addiction.


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## Butterfly (Sep 10, 2017)

Pappy said:


> We will be leaving to our home in Florida around the 10th of October. If it does go up the east coast, we can kiss everything goodbye unless it weakens a whole lot. I don't know which is worst. Sitting up here in NY or being down there going nuts worrying about where to go to get away from this monster.
> Drink that vodka now, jujube, and keep your fingers crossed that it stays south.



I think being down there would be worse, at least for me it would.


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## Butterfly (Sep 10, 2017)

Trade said:


> After the 2004 Hurricanes my homeowners insurance went from about $600 a year to $1600 a year. And that was without me filing a claim and being on high ground 75 miles inland. And it never went down again.
> 
> My boss at the time was living on Vero Beach and commuting. His went up to $10,000 a year. But he was a real player. He got hit by two hurricanes and probably made about $30-$50,000 off of them. He really knew how to play the system. On both mandatory evacuations he rented a motor home and went on vacation. Once to Chicago, and once out to Nevada. All paid for by insurance. Plus he got two free chainsaws and two free generators from FEMA. He had a contractor buddy who repaired his house for about 1/2 of what he got from his insurance. After the Hurricane season was over he bought a bunch of new clothes and a new truck.
> 
> Ya gotta remember this was right before the 2004 election. And Bush and his brother Jeb, who was governor of Florida at the time made sure Florida got taken care of big time.



Why in the world does Florida (and Houston, and wherever else) allow people to build on land that has been flooded over and over?  This makes no sense to me.  Don't they have to get building permits, etc.?  I saw one guy on one of the video news things (I think he was in Houston) who was saying how this was the fourth time he had been wiped out by floods and he was going to rebuild.  I just don't understand that.  He didn't look or sound  like a wealthy guy playing the system, but who knows; the wealthy guys aren't running around in their $2,000 suits in that kind of weather.  I do believe I'd move somewhere else, no matter what my ties to the area were.


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## Trade (Sep 11, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Why in the world does Florida (and Houston, and wherever else) allow people to build on land that has been flooded over and over?  This makes no sense to me.  Don't they have to get building permits, etc.?  I saw one guy on one of the video news things (I think he was in Houston) who was saying how this was the fourth time he had been wiped out by floods and he was going to rebuild.  I just don't understand that.  He didn't look or sound  like a wealthy guy playing the system, but who knows; the wealthy guys aren't running around in their $2,000 suits in that kind of weather.  I do believe I'd move somewhere else, no matter what my ties to the area were.



Of course he's going to rebuild. And you and I are going to pay for it. 

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/08/08/hidden-subsidy-rich-flood-insurance-000495


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## Butterfly (Sep 11, 2017)

But don't those rebuilding have to get building permits, and couldn't the state/city refuse to issue those permits?

For instance, here, an unscrupulous developer sold land basically in the bottom of an arroyo to some very low income people and those people could not get building permits.  In the case of some people who built on the land anyway, the authorities refused to certify buildings for occupancy, which means no utilities, no insurance, etc., and gave them a deadline to either remove the structures or the county would come in and remove them.  

The purchasers of the land were able to successfully sue the jerk who sold the land to them for fraud, etc., and got some of their money back.

Anyway, my point is, does owning the piece of land in the middle of the flood plain give one the legal right to keep building on it?

I read with interest the article you posted.  I did not know how those federal subsidies for flood insurance worked.  Seems to me like that just perpetuates the problem, or am I missing something?  I mean if your flood insurance is going to be hugely subsidized, then there isn't much deterrent to building in the great big middle of an area that has historically flooded??


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## Don M. (Sep 11, 2017)

Butterfly said:


> Anyway, my point is, does owning the piece of land in the middle of the flood plain give one the legal right to keep building on it?



One thing I heard during the Texas floods was that some of the Houston residential areas have been built below the large reservoirs...which even the Army Corp of Engineers had designated as a Flood Plain many years ago.  That should have told both the suburb developers, AND the people buying these houses that there was a high degree if risk involved.  Obviously, any zoning restrictions were either ignored, or bypassed, to allow some of these areas to be built...if such restrictions even existed to begin with.

I will be quite surprised if home insurance doesn't rise substantially in the next year or two....all over the nation...to help offset the huge costs associated with these storms.


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## jujube (Sep 13, 2017)

Don M. said:


> One thing I heard during the Texas floods was that some of the Houston residential areas have been built below the large reservoirs...which even the Army Corp of Engineers had designated as a Flood Plain many years ago.  That should have told both the suburb developers, AND the people buying these houses that there was a high degree if risk involved.  Obviously, any zoning restrictions were either ignored, or bypassed, to allow some of these areas to be built...if such restrictions even existed to begin with.
> 
> *I will be quite surprised if home insurance doesn't rise substantially in the next year or two....all over the nation...to help offset the huge costs associated with these storms*.



You can bet on it.  These insurance companies aren't benevolent charities and they'll be passing their losses onto all and sundry to pay their stockholders.


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## Jackie22 (Sep 13, 2017)

Don M. said:


> One thing I heard during the Texas floods was that some of the Houston residential areas have been built below the large reservoirs...which even the Army Corp of Engineers had designated as a Flood Plain many years ago.  That should have told both the suburb developers, AND the people buying these houses that there was a high degree if risk involved.  Obviously, any zoning restrictions were either ignored, or bypassed, to allow some of these areas to be built...if such restrictions even existed to begin with.
> 
> I will be quite surprised if home insurance doesn't rise substantially in the next year or two....all over the nation...to help offset the huge costs associated with these storms.



Houston has no zoning regulations....the city is free from that 'government restriction'


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## Linda W. (Sep 14, 2017)

I'm no expert, but when my DD did a tear-down and build new, they were required to build up the foundation of the new house...I think about 3.5 feet above ground level. This was in Houston, in an area considered flood plain of some kind. Good thing also, probably saved their house during Harvey! The older houses in the area weren't required to be built that way.


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## Butterfly (Sep 15, 2017)

Jackie22 said:


> Houston has no zoning regulations....the city is free from that 'government restriction'



Well, we can certainly be glad that they don't have to deal with horrible government restrictions that might save lives and billions of dollars, can't we??


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## Trade (Sep 15, 2017)

Irma wasn't all bad. These are some awesome waves!


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