# Wow!Passengers scared?Must have been..



## Furryanimal (Jan 31, 2022)

Big Jet Tv caught this yesterday..


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## Bellbird (Feb 1, 2022)

I have been watching different takeoffs and landing on YouTube. There must be many near misses of disasters.


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## Tommy (Feb 2, 2022)

Wow!  I've had some worrisome landings and even a couple of go-arounds, but nothing like that!  Yike!!


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## Furryanimal (Feb 2, 2022)

This clip has apparently been shown on news outlets around the world.


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## Tish (Feb 2, 2022)

Jesus that's scary.


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## hollydolly (Feb 3, 2022)

Furryanimal said:


> This clip has apparently been shown on news outlets around the world.


yep I saw this on the news a couple of days ago..the gale force winds of 92mph at Heathrow during storm Corrie caused the plane to land awkwardly. the Pilot was a star, he held that beast together and brought it down again just a minute later very safely ..!!.. Thankfully on the news we were spared the Plane watcher dialogue...lol


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## Lewkat (Feb 3, 2022)

Glad I wasn't on that plane.  On our way to Morocco some years ago we ran into a front over the Gibralter Strait and we were tossed all over that sky.  Rabat and Casablanca airports were closed due to weather and we just made it to Marrakesh.  Such incidents are very frightening.


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## hollydolly (Feb 3, 2022)

Lewkat said:


> Glad I wasn't on that plane.  On our way to Morocco some years ago we ran into a front over the Gibralter Strait and we were tossed all over that sky.  Rabat and Casablanca airports were closed due to weather and we just made it to Marrakesh.  Such incidents are very frightening.


you may be delighted to know you've never had to land at Gibraltar runway..


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## Autumn72 (Apr 17, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> you may be delighted to know you've never had to land at Gibraltar runway..


WOW


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## oldman (Apr 21, 2022)

A couple things that I noticed: the plane was too far past the threshold markings before it attempted to land. It also appears to me that he was going to fast for his landing and never idled the engines before touchdown, once he touched down on one side and the plane began to yaw, his only choice was to TOGA and try again. Are we sure that the first officer wasn’t the pilot flying the plane? This appears to me as a pilot with not a lot of landing experience. Maybe some time in the simulator would be helpful to the pilot flying. The tail strike was very minor and I doubt if any damage may have occurred. 

Even if he landed with crosswinds, we should have seen some yawing before touchdown, so I am kind of doubtful that the wind had little to do with his landing. I have seen and myself done landings in crosswinds. The very first thing we do when landing with crosswinds is to slow the plane. When this plane touched down, his speed appeared to be excessive. This is why I am a bit skeptical that the wind had little to do with this landing. If the first officer did the first landing, it may have been possible that the Captain decided to do the landing on the second attempt.


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## oldman (Apr 21, 2022)

hollydolly said:


> you may be delighted to know you've never had to land at Gibraltar runway..


Am I seeing this correctly? They use railroad boom gates to stop traffic for a plane to land? How many times a day does that happens?


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## JonSR77 (Apr 21, 2022)

The entire industry is insane.  They work pilots like dogs.  They don't spend enough money on maintenance.  All one big recipe for disaster.

No pilot should be allowed to fly after working 12 hours straight.  I think a lot these guys routinely work 18 hour shifts.


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## oldman (Apr 21, 2022)

JonSR77 said:


> The entire industry is insane.  They work pilots like dogs.  They don't spend enough money on maintenance.  All one big recipe for disaster.
> 
> No pilot should be allowed to fly after working 12 hours straight.  I think a lot these guys routinely work 18 hour shifts.


This issue has been discussed among pilots ever since ever. The FAA restricts commercial pilots flying passengers be allowed to fly only 8-10 hours per day. Pilots must be given at least 12 hours between shifts, but I think that number has changed since I retired. Pilots flying freight have different restrictions. I think their hours are based on how many hours they can fly in a calendar week. It used to be 60 hours in a week, but that may have also changed.

Pilot fatigue has always been a big issue with the FAA and airline companies. With a shortage of pilots, companies want pilots to be able to fly a 12-hour day. To me, that’s a bad idea. The stress after flying just 8 hours is bad enough. If I was still flying, I wouldn’t want to fly 12 hours. Pilots make a lot of money and the enticement to fly more hours to make more money, excites the younger pilots.

I flew with a newer female pilot a few years before I retired. She told me that she wanted to start a family, but the airline told her if she missed 20 consecutive weeks of work, she would be placed on probation pending her becoming requalified. I knew that was correct, but she wasn’t happy that she had to go through the testing again. I told her that the FAA required that, not the airline. I don’t think she ever came back after she had her baby, or at least she didn’t come back to United.


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## caroln (Apr 21, 2022)

I guess if you live there you're used to it.  No worse than waiting at a RR crossing for a freight train that can sometimes take a half hour or more to go by.


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## Capt Lightning (Apr 21, 2022)

Storm Corrie left a trail of damage across the country and I'm quite prepared to believe that a gust of wing caught the pilot unexpectedly.
If the F/O was flying, then I would have expected that the captain was sufficiently confident of his/her ability to land safely.

On the point of pilot duty / flying hours, I believe that this is strictly regulated in Europe, and I would imagine, the USA.


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## hollydolly (Apr 21, 2022)

oldman said:


> Am I seeing this correctly? They use railroad boom gates to stop traffic for a plane to land? How many times a day does that happens?


yes they do.. and no I have no idea how many times a day.. but the traffic gets stopped for an average of 10 minutes at a time, which in holiday season..causes quite a long line of traffic on the road, and hundreds of people waiting to cross.. and at rush hour, there can be as long as half hour wait...for the traffic...and pedestrians 

https://www.gibraltarairport.gi/content/air-traffic-statistics


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## oldman (Apr 21, 2022)

It’s beautiful, but I am waiting for the first runway incursion. Some drunk may try to go around the gate and a plane may meet the car at the same time.


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## oldman (Apr 21, 2022)

Capt Lightning said:


> Storm Corrie left a trail of damage across the country and I'm quite prepared to believe that a gust of wing caught the pilot unexpectedly.
> If the F/O was flying, then I would have expected that the captain was sufficiently confident of his/her ability to land safely.
> 
> On the point of pilot duty / flying hours, I believe that this is strictly regulated in Europe, and I would imagine, the USA.


All pilots must have an ‘x’ amount of landings and takeoffs per 90 days to comply with FAA regulations and for the pilot to retain his ATP certificate.


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## hollydolly (Apr 21, 2022)

oldman said:


> It’s beautiful, but I am waiting for the first runway incursion. Some drunk may try to go around the gate and a plane may meet the car at the same time.


my Daughter used to do her monthly grocery shopping in Gib... so she's driven over that crossing , and waited in the queue, many times... Most people who live in Spain try and avoid going into Gib during the tourist seasons


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## oldman (Apr 21, 2022)

Kind of like people avoiding going to Florida in the winter, unless they have a home there. The state gets a bit overcrowded.


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## oldman (Apr 23, 2022)

Here’s another story of scared passengers. (Some may not find it interesting.)

We were landing in Denver during a snowstorm in late February and was almost blizzard conditions. This was at the old Stapleton Airport. The winds coming down off the Rockies into Denver can make landing a challenge at times, but now add a snowstorm to the mix and it’s a stressful situation.

I’m flying the plane and the first officer is taking care of the communications and watching the gauges, etc. We were in our final approach, about 10 miles from the airport when the traffic controller reports winds have increased to 25kts at 240, which in this case was our tail. So, I knew we were going to get shoved down the runway upon landing. I immediately reduced speed to 160 with full flaps and kept the rudder and stabilizer at normal points for landing. There were no crosswinds.

Just a moment before touchdown, I idled the engines and right after touchdown, I engaged the thrust reversers. The runway was clear, so we had a good landing, taxied to the gate, retracted the flaps and shut down the engines. What I didn’t know was that the flight attendants were dealing with many scared passengers. Some were throwing up, others were crying, a few even yelled we were going to crash. I couldn’t figure out what started all the commotion.

I came to find out that “Sky News” was on the monitor at the time and they were talking about a plane in Germany had crashed due to similar weather conditions and one person freaked out and then we had the domino effect where one person starts and the others follow after. Our flight attendants were not happy. BTW, that was the last time that “Sky News” showed any plane crashes.

When I opened the cockpit door, I expected to see a lot of smiling faces, not a freak show going on.


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## Autumn72 (Apr 23, 2022)

You sure did something right


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## Pappy (Apr 24, 2022)

If I had been on that plane, my pants would need changing before I got off. Very scary.


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## Geezerette (Apr 24, 2022)

Old man, what a fabulous save! Actually piloting the plane instead of letting computers do the flying!
I’ve been aboard 2 scary approaches. First was on an old Mowhawk twin engine commuter plane going from NY CITY  to Albany. Looked out the right side window about 1/4 the way up and the engine on this right side was giving off black smoke. Pilot dropped down to about 500 feet and flew it straight up over the Hudson, right over the bridges. . I guess the thinking was fewer people would be hurt than if it crashed on the densely populated land. And I’m thinking, well at least I’m good swimmer. (In 1972 a. Mohawk had actually crashed with fatalities outside Albany airport). So we made it to Albany, landed far from the terminal with all sorts of emergency vehicles waiting.
Big round of applause and cheering for pilot.

2nd was coming back to NY city from Rome, Italy. About an hour out pilot announced “a light had come on”, he was dumping fuel and heading to Heathrow. The interior reeked of it, sickening, and seemed like it took forever before safe to land.All I could think about was that all the gifts I had got for everyone would be at the bottom of the ocean. He put us down safely by some distant hangar.
Then more discomfort, thehangar only had single stall mens and ladies rooms, and we hadn’t been allowed to get up on the way there.


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## oldman (Apr 24, 2022)

I only ever saw pictures of a Mohawk. That’s going back a lot of years. Dumping fuel is always a bad sign that something is terribly amiss. According to MapQuest, it’s about 900 miles from Rome to London. If the plane was about an hour out from Rome, that may be about 4-500 miles leaving about 400 miles to London. I have to assume that the pilot dumped fuel over the North Sea or other large body of water and not over a populated area.

The important thing is that the pilots landed safely and everyone was fine.


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## oldman (Apr 24, 2022)

Geezerette said:


> Old man, what a fabulous save! Actually piloting the plane instead of letting computers do the flying!
> I’ve been aboard 2 scary approaches. First was on an old Mowhawk twin engine commuter plane going from NY CITY  to Albany. Looked out the right side window about 1/4 the way up and the engine on this right side was giving off black smoke. Pilot dropped down to about 500 feet and flew it straight up over the Hudson, right over the bridges. . I guess the thinking was fewer people would be hurt than if it crashed on the densely populated land. And I’m thinking, well at least I’m good swimmer. (In 1972 a. Mohawk had actually crashed with fatalities outside Albany airport). So we made it to Albany, landed far from the terminal with all sorts of emergency vehicles waiting.
> Big round of applause and cheering for pilot.
> 
> ...


BTW, anytime I was the pilot flying and we would be landing in bad weather, I always opted for hand flying the plane. I would use the A/P (autopilot) until we connected with the localizer and then I would turn it off and fly the plane using my skills. Maybe this will help you understand. https://www.google.com/search?q=is+...ZgBAKABAbABG8ABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp


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## oldman (Apr 27, 2022)

Here’s another story that I ran across while thumbing through my journal. Not a biggie, but for those that like airplane stories might enjoy it.

We were waiting to takeoff in Dallas on an early spring morning back in 2002. A line of severe thunderstorms were preparing to enter the area around the airport, so we wanted to get moving to avoid being delayed until the storms passed through. For those of you who don’t know how a departure works, you may be amazed. First, we have to have permission to get a pushback from the gate and also to start the engines. Once pushed back, we need permission and instructions to get to our runway. Meanwhile, onboard, we are running checklists for pushback, starting engines and departing for the runway. While taxiing to the runway, we have to configure the plane for takeoff by using another checklist. We have to set the slats and flaps, check the rudder and also the horizontal stabilizer and also some of the warning lights need to be tested.

Once we get to the runway and we haven’t been cleared for departure, we have to stop short of turning onto the runway. Probably another plane is landing, so we have to wait until that plane or planes land and have exited the runway. Once cleared for departure, we have to announce to the cabin for the flight attendants to be seated. Then, the flight attendants have to announce to the passengers to check their seatbelts, etc. Now, we can ask to be cleared for departure (not takeoff), which comes from the traffic controller. We have spoken with 3 different controllers before departing. Each controller has a specific function and requires the pilots to change radio frequencies to speak to each one. BTW, if we are immediately cleared for departure once we reached the end of the runway, we call that a “turn and burn.” We turn onto the runway and push the accelerators up to full thrust, make sure the brake is off and off we go.

So, on this morning, we were all but begging the traffic controller to give us permission to pushback and start the engines, so we could taxi. Finally, after about 5 minutes, we got a go order clearance to pushback, start and taxi. While taxiing out to the runway, we even got our clearance to depart or do a “turn and burn.” We had just got airborne when the ATC announced all planes to hold in position as the storms were now too close to the airport. We were headed for NYC, so we were given vectors turning us to the northeast and away from the storm. Whew! We got lucky on that one. One more minute delay and we would have been stuck at the airport for probably at least a half hour. It was a very bumpy departure as the storms were moving in. We had some very bad turbulence for just a few minutes, which did stress some of our passengers, but I never felt we were in danger. The rest of the trip was smooth.


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## Geezerette (Apr 27, 2022)

I like airplane stories! In addition to my enjoying commercial aviation, my late XH had private pilot, instrument and twin ratings. So I spent some time in the cockpit with him in addition to having logged almost enough hours of my own to qualify for first solo. But money for my flying lessons was never a priority. In commercial aviation I love that moment when the pushback starts, finally on the way. I don’t recall being on a turn and burn flight more than a few times,  but it is exciting. Glad you got to get out before the storm that time.


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## oldman (Apr 27, 2022)

Geezerette said:


> I like airplane stories! In addition to my enjoying commercial aviation, my late XH had private pilot, instrument and twin ratings. So I spent some time in the cockpit with him in addition to having logged almost enough hours of my own to qualify for first solo. But money for my flying lessons was never a priority. In commercial aviation I love that moment when the pushback starts, finally on the way. I don’t recall being on a turn and burn flight more than a few times,  but it is exciting. Glad you got to get out before the storm that time.


Did your husband fly at night? I know of some private pilots who hold an IFR certificate like your husband, but still wouldn’t fly at night. Most pilots are satisfied with holding a VFR certificate, which allows them to fly during daylight hours.

I usually refer to JFK Jr’s nighttime flight out over water. Sometimes pilots have a lot or too much confidence in their flying abilities until they get out over water and away from land, so now they have no landmarks. I think this is what happened to JFK, Jr. Supposedly, the NTSB believes he forgot to keep his eye on the attitude indicator and the plane actually may have gone inverted. He did hold an IFR certificate, but only for a short time. I saw different versions of what ‘May’ have happened, but no one can give a definite answer.

When the pilot gets out over water and away from land, it’s like being in an abyss. It can be very scary for an inexperienced pilot.


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## Geezerette (Apr 27, 2022)

No we never took any night time trips. Maybe landing close to sunset. So long ago but I seem to remember he had to do some night flights for one of the ratings, I don’t recall which. Never went over any significant water. He mainly wanted the IFR rating because we were living in Pgh Pa area which could get very cloudy. & I think he just wanted  to prove he could pass it. Most of the flights were in rented Cessna 172 s. Haven’t reminisced about the flying days in ages!
That was so tragic about JFK Jr, I remember that theory about him being inverted.


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## Tommy (Apr 28, 2022)

I'll share a short air travel story.  Back in the mid-90s I had just boarded an Atlantic Southeast Airlines (Delta Connection) commuter in Tallahassee, FL and was getting settled in my seat when I glanced out the window.  The plane was being refueled and fuel was pouring onto the ground.  Not just a little fuel mind you ... it was absolutely gushing and the pavement beneath the plane was swimming in fuel.  I quickly got up, told a flight attendant about the situation, and returned to the terminal.

It took quite a while but the eventually got the problem solved and the mess cleaned up, and I re-boarded.  With that much fuel on the ground I was surprised that they hadn't taken the other passengers off.

That is one of two interesting tales I have about flying ASA.  Maybe sometime I'll share the other.


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## oldman (Apr 28, 2022)

Tommy said:


> I'll share a short air travel story.  Back in the mid-90s I had just boarded an Atlantic Southeast Airlines (Delta Connection) commuter in Tallahassee, FL and was getting settled in my seat when I glanced out the window.  The plane was being refueled and fuel was pouring onto the ground.  Not just a little fuel mind you ... it was absolutely gushing and the pavement beneath the plane was swimming in fuel.  I quickly got up, told a flight attendant about the situation, and returned to the terminal.
> 
> It took quite a while but the eventually got the problem solved and the mess cleaned up, and I re-boarded.  With that much fuel on the ground I was surprised that they hadn't taken the other passengers off.
> 
> That is one of two interesting tales I have about flying ASA.  Maybe sometime I'll share the other.


Tommy, you probably don’t know what size of plane you were on, but was it a turboprop, piston powered or jet? What I’m really trying to ask is do you know if the plane fueled through the tanks in the wings or were there bladder fuel tanks?

When a jet plane is fueled, the tanks are located in the wings. The fueling hose has a special valve on the end of the hose that is used to fill the tank and is ‘attached’ to keep the hose in place and from backing out. The fuel tanks are kept symmetrically filled. Most of the larger jets have three tanks. This helps to balance the plane. The plane uses a regulator to keep the fuel flow from the tanks being evenly distributed. Keeping an eye on the fuel usage to make sure that the balance is equaled is important with keeping the plane balanced.

It’s always dangerous to have a puddle of fuel on the ground, even if you are filling your car or truck. BTW. ASA merged with ExpressJet, which also flew for United besides Delta under a code agreement. (I just looked that up.) 

Now, I’m ready for your next story.


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## oldman (Apr 28, 2022)

Geezerette said:


> No we never took any night time trips. Maybe landing close to sunset. So long ago but I seem to remember he had to do some night flights for one of the ratings, I don’t recall which. Never went over any significant water. He mainly wanted the IFR rating because we were living in Pgh Pa area which could get very cloudy. & I think he just wanted  to prove he could pass it. Most of the flights were in rented Cessna 172 s. Haven’t reminisced about the flying days in ages!
> That was so tragic about JFK Jr, I remember that theory about him being inverted.


If I had to choose between flying at day or night, I would choose night. To me, the important things are much more visible.


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## Tommy (Apr 29, 2022)

oldman said:


> Tommy, you probably don’t know what size of plane you were on, but was it a turboprop, piston powered or jet?


At that time I was flying in and out of TLH several times a month on ASA and they were usually (exclusively?) flying Embraer EMB 120 Brasilia turboprops on that route.  I've often wondered where the driver of the fuel truck was while this was happening.


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## oldman (Apr 30, 2022)

Tommy said:


> At that time I was flying in and out of TLH several times a month on ASA and they were usually (exclusively?) flying Embraer EMB 120 Brasilia turboprops on that route.  I've often wondered where the driver of the fuel truck was while this was happening.


I really don’t know what the driver’s instructions are while the fuel is flowing. The larger airports use underground piping that allows the fuel operator to connect the hose to the inlet valve and the fuel flows through an under piping system from a huge tank that sits well away from the taxiways and runways.


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