# Socialised medicine in Australia



## Warrigal (May 10, 2021)

Just saw these tweets and I have no idea of the nationality of the poster.

This is what he posted



> Hi I’m in Australia and saw a specialist this morning, gave them my Medicare card and by 9pm the rebate showed up in my bank account oooh socialized medicine is terrifying I have no freedom please help me



Then he added this 



> And I wrote this tweet last night and forget to hit tweet so I’m worse at Twitter than Medicare is at giving rebates so terrifying



I can top this. When I see my specialists I hand over my Medicare card and the rebate is deducted from my bill and paid to the practicioner. My health fund also pays the specialist immediately and that amount is deducted from the bill as well. Easy peasy, because I don't have to fill in any forms.

At my GP I pay nothing for consultations.


----------



## Leonie (May 11, 2021)

Yep, me too Warrigal.  This socialized medicine caper is definitely terrifying.  Maybe we should stand together with the 'tweeter' and demand they turn it around.  We could chant "We wanna pay thousands for health care" ... "When do we want it?" ..."NOW"

Or maybe not.  LOL


----------



## JimBob1952 (May 12, 2021)

One of the problems we have with the US healthcare system is our refusal to study "best practices" -- that is, to copy the systems of countries who are doing it right.  Australia and Germany are often cited.  

Instead of starting from scratch and adopting a new system, we keep patching and reworking a system that never worked all that well to begin with.  

Glad things work in Australia.  Do you face some of the issues we hear about in the UK and Canada, such as long waits for elective surgeries?


----------



## Warrigal (May 13, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> One of the problems we have with the US healthcare system is our refusal to study "best practices" -- that is, to copy the systems of countries who are doing it right.  Australia and Germany are often cited.
> 
> Instead of starting from scratch and adopting a new system, we keep patching and reworking a system that never worked all that well to begin with.
> 
> Glad things work in Australia.  Do you face some of the issues we hear about in the UK and Canada, such as long waits for elective surgeries?


We have a mixed system. Some people have private insurance. I am one of these. When I see a specialist my health insurance covers the hospital bill as a private patient because I have chosen top cover. You can pay a lower monthly subscription if you elect to pay an excess on any hospital bills. For the surgeon between Medicare and the insurance fund there may or not be a gap between the bill and the rebates. It is possible to shop around for a no gap surgeon. For my joint replacements there was a gap payment but for my cataract operations the only out of pocket cost was $75 for the taxi that collected me from home and drive to the other side of Sydney to the clinic and took me home again when I was done. The plastic surgeon who took out some cancer from my nose was a no gap surgeon.

As well as being a privately insured patient I am also covered by Medicare which is our universal health care system. I pay nothing for visits to my GP (primary health care provider) because he bulk bills patients to Medicare. I had my first COVID shot last week and didn't pay a cent for a consultation with the doctor before and after the nurse administered the vaccine.

I have the option of hospital treatment as a public patient via Medicare should I wish to take that option. Medicare is funded by a levy on income tax but as a pensioner I don't actually pay income tax. Elective surgery in a public hospital does mean going on a waiting list which is why I refuse to give up our health insurance.

The dual/mixed system is hard to explain but it gives us choices. Choice of practicioner, choice of hospital and almost immediate treatment in a hospital for elective surgery. Medicare ensures that everyone, regardless of income, can afford medical treatment.

We also have subsidised prescription drugs through the PBS (pharmaceutical benefits scheme). This scheme has a cap that means when a household reaches that cap in any calendar year all scripts after that are dispensed free of charge. We refer to this arrangement as reaching the safety net and it ensures that individuals and families can afford expensive medicines because the government buys approved drugs at the best possible price and charges an affordable cost to patients. Pensioners and low income people pay less than higher income earners but there is still a safety net that applies to all.


----------



## Pinky (May 13, 2021)

The Australian health system, I understand was modeled after our system. I found it to be almost identical.

Regardless of having heard mainly Americans citing problems with elective surgeries in Canada, we have never experienced it personally, here where we live .. in Toronto. Nor did we experience it anywhere else we've lived in Canada.


----------



## asp3 (May 13, 2021)

There are many of us here who would like to see universal healthcare implemented here in the US and many who don't want to see it here.  Since the insurance companies give political contributions to many of our politicians it's unlikely that we'll see it in the near future.  The insurance companies seem to give contributions to politicians and PACs (Political Action Committees) across the political spectrum so this isn't a completely one sided problem.


----------



## hollydolly (May 13, 2021)

Well I can top it all..on our Socialised system we pay nothing at source  to see the GP, nor Consultants, or surgeons.. nothing whatsoever... we don't even need any kind of card to hand over to prove we don't need to pay..

Also after 60, we don't pay for prescriptions  or eye tests in England...

We have chosen to have private  care too.. which is something my o/h gets  subsidised private Medical Insurance where he works for both of us so when we need to see a Private consultant we just need to make one call to BUPA... and they give us the Nod to go ahead , and then after the consultation or surgery we give our BUPA number


----------



## Warrigal (May 13, 2021)

Yes, Holly Dolly, but Americans are scared of the UK system of socialised medicine. They are very unlikely to accept that model. However, it is possible to design hybrid systems that they would find less threatening, especially when they realise that bankruptcy is not one of the outcomes.


----------



## hollydolly (May 14, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Yes, Holly Dolly, but Americans are scared of the UK system of socialised medicine. They are very unlikely to accept that model. However, it is possible to design hybrid systems that they would find less threatening, especially when they realise that bankruptcy is not one of the outcomes.


Absolutely...!


----------



## Buckeye (May 14, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Yes, Holly Dolly, but Americans are scared of the UK system of socialised medicine. They are very unlikely to accept that model. However, it is possible to design hybrid systems that they would find less threatening, especially when they realise that bankruptcy is not one of the outcomes.


Nope.  Americans are not "scared of the UK system".  We just know that the situations are different. For example, we have over 20 million illegal immigrants who are a ongoing drain on all of our social support systems.  How many do you have?  We have a common boarder with Mexico, which is, by current policy, more or less open, allowing thousands more illegal immigrants daily.  How many new illegals enter your country, or Canada, or England every day?

And we do have socialized medicine for may of us - I'm on medicare, can go to virtually any doctor anywhere, etc, plus I have a "supplement" to cover what medicate doesn't pay.  Many others, too young for medicare, and too poor to pay premiums are covered by state run medicaid systems.  

I would also note the the Canada/Australia/England systems are not the same.  Why is that?  If the Canadian system is better than the Australian system, why don't you change your systems to be exactly like Canada's?  Or are you too scared to make the change to a better system?

Have a great day!


----------



## hollydolly (May 14, 2021)

Actually we do have very many illegal immigrants entering the UK on a daily basis, but no-one can access the social care system if they have no NHS number, and as an illegal immigrant they can't get that...


----------



## Pinky (May 14, 2021)

I found that, while the Australian and Canadian health care systems are very similar, there are minute differences. One difference was that no money is paid out by the patient, and a percentage returned. That was done years ago, but not anymore.


----------



## hollydolly (May 14, 2021)

Pinky said:


> I found that, while the Australian and Canadian health care systems are very similar, there are minute differences. One difference was that no money is paid out by the patient, and a percentage returned. That was done years ago, but not anymore.


which one pays out money, Pinky ?..between Oz and Canada...?

In the UK we don't pay any money at all..

Of course you all know that about the UK  in Australia and Canada being sovereign states...


----------



## Pinky (May 14, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> which one pays out money, Pinky ?..between Oz and Canada...?
> 
> In the UK we don't pay any money at all..
> 
> Of course you all know that about the UK  in Australia and Canada being sovereign states...


Australia @hollydolly 
Our system started out that way. We had to submit our medical fees once they added up to $100.00. Then, we would get a percentage returned. That was decades ago. Now, there is no money changing hands. I don't know how it works with private coverage though.


----------



## Warrigal (May 14, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> Nope.  Americans are not "scared of the UK system".  We just know that the situations are different. For example, we have over 20 million illegal immigrants who are a ongoing drain on all of our social support systems.  How many do you have?


Not too many because the boats have stopped coming but we are spending extraordinary sums to keep them in offshore detention. Part of that cost is attending to their medical needs and flying them to the mainland for treatment. It would cost a lot less to let them go free in the community.

Most of our illegal immigrants are people who have  overstayed their visas. They are also placed in detention awaiting deportation and naturally their welfare, including medical treatment. is the responsibility of the commonwealth. This is separate from the Medicare system.



Buckeye said:


> I would also note the the Canada/Australia/England systems are not the same.  Why is that?  If the Canadian system is better than the Australian system, why don't you change your systems to be exactly like Canada's?  Or are you too scared to make the change to a better system?
> 
> Have a great day!



The point I have been making is that each country designs the medical system that suits its citizens. It can be fully private and user pays, fully socialised with costs spread across all taxpayers or some hybrid that is part private and part socialised. Americans, IMO, are reluctant to embrace anything that can be labelled as socialist because they don't want to pay taxes to provide benefits to people they feel are less industrious than themselves. I found a similar attitude in Canada when I visited in 1985. When I mentioned that in Australia university education was free (no tuition fees at that time) she was incensed, declaring that she wasn't going to pay taxes for some other person's kid to go to university. I found that a strange response because in my mind a well educated population is a national benefit as well as a personal one. 

I feel the same way about health. A healthy population is a productive population. It is both a personal and a national good. That is why I, and most Australians like our system of private and publicly funded health services. It allows freedom of choice and ensures that every citizen in guaranteed the care and treatment that they require. 

There are a number of reasons why Australians are happy with this arrangement. One is that it is affordable. Another is that we see it as being very fair. Fairness is a core value in OZ even though it is not always achieved.

If Americans believe their system is affordable and fair, providing quality health care to all citizens, then it is fit for purpose but if not the perhaps some modifications might be considered. That is not to say that US should copy some other country's system.


----------

