# My Observation Today About What Americans Weigh



## fmdog44

Went to Walmart to get my Amoxicillin prescription filled and had to wait 40 minutes. I spent part of the time just looking at the grocery shelves. I got hung up on the sauces aisle thinking how much sugar is in all of these condiments like mayo, ketchups, BBQ sauces, salad dressings, gravies and the like. Then I went to the McDonalds inside the store for a cup of coffee and sat by the window with a view of the people coming in to Walmart. 

Not that I am not overweight but severe obesity at the rate of what I saw today says no one is lying when they say we are at a critical stage of a national health crisis. The real crime is these people are young like under 30 and the choice of food at fast food restaurants all and I mean 100% unhealthy and it is everywhere we look. I don't see it ever ending and sadly it is 100% avoidable.


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## Murrmurr

Fast food has been around for a long time. Arguably first was White Castle in 1921, then chains such as McDonald's, est. in1940, and KFC, est. in 1952, caught fire, and _boom_. But we didn't start seeing an obesity problem until the 80s, and by the 90s it was epidemic. I believe this has to do, at least in part, with cheaper cooking oils and food additives. The FDA funded some studies, so you'd think they would have stepped in strongly by the late 90s. But fast food is a bazillion-dollar industry, so that hasn't happened yet. I wonder if it will, eventually.


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## caroln

fmdog44 said:


> Went to Walmart to get my Amoxicillin prescription filled and had to wait 40 minutes. I spent part of the time just looking at the grocery shelves. I got hung up on the sauces aisle thinking how much sugar is in all of these condiments like mayo, ketchups, BBQ sauces, salad dressings, gravies and the like. Then I went to the McDonalds inside the store for a cup of coffee and sat by the window with a view of the people coming in to Walmart. Not that I am not overweight but severe obesity at the rate of what I saw today says no one is lying when they say we are at a critical stage of a national health crisis. The real crime is these people are young like under 30 and the choice of food at fast food restaurants all and I mean 100% unhealthy and it is everywhere we look. I don't see it ever ending and sadly it is 100% avoidable.


What makes me sad is when I see obese parents with 3 young children and the kids are _already_ way overweight. I just think about their future, dealing with diabetes, high blood pressure, strokes, depression, etc., not to mention being made fun of in school and general fat shaming their whole lives. Why are the parents putting the kids through all that when they surely have already experienced the pitfalls of being obese? Sorry if I sound like I have no empathy...I do. But it just seems to me that the parents would try to save their kids from the same difficulties.


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## Aunt Bea

I’m afraid that it will get worse during this period of high inflation.

People will choose more inexpensive sugary cereals, blue box Mac & cheese, soda, etc...


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## Don M.

Present statistics show that over 40% of our people are substantially overweight.  This largely "preventable" epidemic is the root cause for almost 1/3rd of the nations medical problems and costs.  I strongly suspect that the majority of those who have died, or become seriously ill due to Covid, fall into the substantially overweight category.  

I would Dearly love to see Obesity treated much the same way as Smoking.  Smokers have been charged extra for their health insurance for a long time....Overweight people should be treated the same, IMO.  Perhaps if they take a hit in their wallets, they might begin to think about taking better care of their health.


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## Murrmurr

Don M. said:


> Present statistics show that over 40% of our people are substantially overweight.  This largely "preventable" epidemic is the root cause for almost 1/3rd of the nations medical problems and costs.  I strongly suspect that the majority of those who have died, or become seriously ill due to Covid, fall into the substantially overweight category.
> 
> I would Dearly love to see Obesity treated much the same way as Smoking.  Smokers have been charged extra for their health insurance for a long time....Overweight people should be treated the same, IMO.  Perhaps if they take a hit in their wallets, they might begin to think about taking better care of their health.


I agree with you up to a point. I think obesity should be treated as a type of addiction or dependency - medically, with nationwide research and treatment centers, but publicly funded, because a huge portion of our obese population live below the poverty line.

And I agree with your correlation between covid and obesity. Data shows that a significant percentage of severe covid and covid deaths occurred (and still occurs) among the obese, including obese children.


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## Pinky

Not all obesity is due to high caloric intake. Sometimes, it's hormonal (such as PCOS in females).


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## Becky1951

Present statistics show that over 40% of our people are substantially overweight. This largely "preventable" epidemic is the root cause for almost 1/3rd of the nations medical problems and costs. 

They know what causes their weight gain, but they made/make their choice to continue over eating.

Let's mandate them for their own good! Those within a healthy weight will get a food passport. 

Those not a healthy weight will not be allowed to order or buy fatty or surgery foods. 

Problem solved.


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## JustBonee

America's Favorite Foods  ... and of course,  Potato Chips are the  #1 Snack ....   

http://islandgrownschools.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/8/10785576/top_ten_foods_consumed_in_america.pdf


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## Kaila

Bonnie said:


> America's Favorite Foods  ... and of course,  Potato Chips are the  #1 Snack ....
> 
> http://islandgrownschools.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/8/10785576/top_ten_foods_consumed_in_america.pdf



This reminded me of the extreme low quality and poor choices, I saw many years ago,  in school lunches, which are harmful in themselves, and also gets the children used to those poor food choices.  I wonder if they have improved them generally at all, or if they have only improved in very few schools.


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## HoneyNut

Don M. said:


> I would Dearly love to see Obesity treated much the same way as Smoking. Smokers have been charged extra for their health insurance for a long time....Overweight people should be treated the same


In the past I would have agreed, but I've been watching YouTubes this past year about the statistics and it turns out that there are healthy fat people that don't cost extra, and there are an even larger number of not-obese people that are developing the same type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, and other metabolic problems from bad food choices than the number of obese people that do (though the percentage of the obese people with the problems are higher).
So, it is more complicated than just blaming overweight people.  It is more about changing what people eat, which is a big challenge.


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## Aunt Bea

IMO punitive measures won’t do much good.

I would favor improving education, exercise, and access to healthy foods.

It’s really scary and sad to me that in my community the public schools now provide free breakfast, lunch, and an afternoon snack for all students.

In the summer they now act as feeding centers for any student that needs a free lunch.

When I was a kid we didn’t always have a lot but we always got fed.


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## Pinky

Becky1951 said:


> Present statistics show that over 40% of our people are substantially overweight. This largely "preventable" epidemic is the root cause for almost 1/3rd of the nations medical problems and costs.
> 
> They know what causes their weight gain, but they made/make their choice to continue over eating.
> 
> Let's mandate them for their own good! Those within a healthy weight will get a food passport.
> 
> Those not a healthy weight will not be allowed to order or buy fatty or surgery foods.
> 
> Problem solved.


 .. and then who's next - smokers?


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## Aunt Bea

Becky1951 said:


> Present statistics show that over 40% of our people are substantially overweight. This largely "preventable" epidemic is the root cause for almost 1/3rd of the nations medical problems and costs.
> 
> They know what causes their weight gain, but they made/make their choice to continue over eating.
> 
> Let's mandate them for their own good! Those within a healthy weight will get a food passport.
> 
> Those not a healthy weight will not be allowed to order or buy fatty or surgery foods.
> 
> Problem solved.


I can see a group of enterprising skinny kids standing outside of McDonalds offering to help the fat kids get a fix for a small fee.


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## Becky1951

Pinky said:


> .. and then who's next - smokers?


Oh goody you read where I replied to murmur about cost of my cigarettes. 

Sure why not it seems people's choices about their own health doesn't matter anymore.


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## Pinky

Becky1951 said:


> Oh goody you read where I replied to murmur about cost of my cigarettes.
> 
> Sure why not it seems people's choices about their own health doesn't matter anymore.


Actually, I didn't pick up on that, Becky. My hubby is a smoker too.


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## Della

I sometimes think we wouldn't have become so obese if we hadn't tried so hard not to be.  When I was a teen I thought I was a bit too fat at 5'6" 115 lbs.  This was because my best friend weighed 110. (?)

So I was extremely interested in all the weight loss schemes and the articles about diet and exercise in my mother's magazines; Journal, Redbook, Vogue, Bazaar, Good Housekeeping, plus my own Seventeen, Glamour, Mademoiselle and Ingenue.  They almost all _only_ had such articles in April or May to prepare us for "swimsuit season."

Weight Watchers hadn't started yet and anyone who exercised was under suspicion as a "health nut."  My female classmates did no exercise or sports unless forced to in gym class.  We ate whatever we felt like including all our mothers' home baked cookies and cakes, meatloaf, mashed potatoes and tiny servings of canned peas. No we didn't have much fast food, we didn't need to, it was all at home in the form of pancakes and bacon for breakfast, hot school lunches and big hearty dinners.

Yet we were all fairly thin.  I think it was because our metabolisms and hormones worked.  We quit eating when we were full and our brain knew when were full because we had never dieted.

When we became obsessed with diets; low fat, low carb, South Beach, Atkins, raw food. and fasting we set our selves on a path of yo-yoing -- with every diet ending in a regain plus ten more pounds.

Now our bodies are so messed up we can't fix it.  I no longer think obesity is preventable.  Sure we can lose, but 98% regain so it's fairly hopeless.
https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/
Read it and weep.


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## Aunt Bea

Becky1951 said:


> Oh goody you read where I replied to murmur about cost of my cigarettes.
> 
> Sure why not it seems people's choices about their own health doesn't matter anymore.


It’s not just smokers or obese people.

It could be skiers with a broken leg, a drug overdose, auto accident, etc...

IMO we should all have access to quality medical care without attempting to single out any particular group.


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## Jules

By the time people buy what they want in fast food places, it isn’t cheap.  If they had any training in planning and cooking meals, they could live for less money.  Definitely much healthier.  JMO.


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## Ruthanne

There are a lot of calories in fast food.  One reason I gained a lot of weight and so hard to take it off now.


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## Aunt Bea

Obesity is a tough issue to solve, take it from one who has first hand experience.

I’ve never met anyone that wants to be overweight.  If money was the only thing needed to solve the problem there would be no fat billionaires, entertainers, celebrities, etc...

I think it will take generations to change the way we eat.

IMO solving the issue of obesity is right up there with solving global warming, eliminating poverty, reducing crime, etc...


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## Becky1951

Della said:


> I sometimes think we wouldn't have become so obese if we hadn't tried so hard not to be.  When I was a teen I thought I was a bit too fat at 5'6" 115 lbs.  This was because my best friend weighed 110. (?)
> 
> So I was extremely interested in all the weight loss schemes and the articles about diet and exercise in my mother's magazines; Journal, Redbook, Vogue, Bazaar, Good Housekeeping, plus my own Seventeen, Glamour, Mademoiselle and Ingenue.  They almost all _only_ had such articles in April or May to prepare us for "swimsuit season."
> 
> Weight Watchers hadn't started yet and anyone who exercised was under suspicion as a "health nut."  My female classmates did no exercise or sports unless forced to in gym class.  We ate whatever we felt like including all our mothers' home baked cookies and cakes, meatloaf, mashed potatoes and tiny servings of canned peas. No we didn't have much fast food, we didn't need to, it was all at home in the form of pancakes and bacon for breakfast, hot school lunches and big hearty dinners.
> 
> Yet we were all fairly thin.  I think it was because our metabolisms and hormones worked.  We quit eating when we were full and our brain knew when were full because we had never dieted.
> 
> When we became obsessed with diets; low fat, low carb, South Beach, Atkins, raw food. and fasting we set our selves on a path of yo-yoing -- with every diet ending in a regain plus ten more pounds.
> 
> Now our bodies are so messed up we can't fix it.  I no longer think obesity is preventable.  Sure we can lose, but 98% regain so it's fairly hopeless.
> https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/
> Read it and weep.


"Now our bodies are so messed up we can't fix it."

Yes all that yo yo back and forth dieting. I have never been on a diet, love food, never been over weight. I have friends and family struggling with diets to lose weight and I always felt that if they would just stop and eat the foods they crave that their body is craving, in time their weight would level off to a normal weight for them. Diabetics of course couldn't eat sugary stuff. 

Some people with thyroid problems gain no matter what they eat, my brother was that way.


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## dseag2

Michelle Obama tried to implement healthy nutrition programs for children.  In 2011, federal spending totaled $10.1 billion for the National School Lunch Program, and we all saw how well that worked out.  I know there are many reasons for obesity, but people who choose to eat an unhealthy diet will just continue to do so.


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## helenbacque

I blame the assumption that food advertised as 'diet, sugar free, low calorie or fat free'  can therefore be eaten in volume.  Another contributing cause:   Stranger danger/ fear keeps people, especially young children, house bound and entertained by TV and video games.  My generation grew up free range.


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## WillieB1964

Becky1951 said:


> Present statistics show that over 40% of our people are substantially overweight. This largely "preventable" epidemic is the root cause for almost 1/3rd of the nations medical problems and costs.
> 
> They know what causes their weight gain, but they made/make their choice to continue over eating.
> 
> Let's mandate them for their own good! Those within a healthy weight will get a food passport.
> 
> Those not a healthy weight will not be allowed to order or buy fatty or surgery foods.
> 
> Problem solved.


Can you say police state?


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## win231

caroln said:


> What makes me sad is when I see obese parents with 3 young children and the kids are _already_ way overweight. I just think about their future, dealing with diabetes, high blood pressure, strokes, depression, etc., not to mention being made fun of in school and general fat shaming their whole lives. Why are the parents putting the kids through all that when they surely have already experienced the pitfalls of being obese? Sorry if I sound like I have no empathy...I do. But it just seems to me that the parents would try to save their kids from the same difficulties.


You may not believe it, but many of these parents who are overweight actually _*want *_their kids to be overweight.  These parents are more comfortable when their kids are overweight as they are.  I've heard parents say,_ "See?  It's genetic & nothing can be done about it."_
I've witnessed it in other families, as well as my own.
When I was in 7th grade, a classmate was at least 80 lbs overweight.  I happened to be in line behind him & his parents at McDonald's.
I heard his mother say to him, _"Make sure to finish both Cheeseburgers because we're going to do lots of walking at the fair."_


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## Becky1951

WillieB1964 said:


> Can you say police state?


Can you say vaccine mandate? Which I am against and my comment was geared towards if one mandate is supposedly for our own good, (Covid vaccines) taking away our choice to decide what's best for our own health, then obesity being also a health concern??? Where does it stop?


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## Ruthanne

Becky1951 said:


> Present statistics show that over 40% of our people are substantially overweight. This largely "preventable" epidemic is the root cause for almost 1/3rd of the nations medical problems and costs.
> 
> They know what causes their weight gain, but they made/make their choice to continue over eating.
> 
> Let's mandate them for their own good! Those within a healthy weight will get a food passport.
> 
> Those not a healthy weight will not be allowed to order or buy fatty or surgery foods.
> 
> Problem solved.


I have 2 words for that and it's not Happy Thanksgiving!  Peace out!!


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## caroln

win231 said:


> You may not believe it, but many of these parents who are overweight actually _*want *_their kids to be overweight.  These parents are more comfortable when their kids are overweight as they are.  I've heard parents say,_ "See?  It's genetic & nothing can be done about it."_


Now that's _really_ sad.  Hopefully the kids break that destructive cycle when they get older.


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## Alligatorob

Don M. said:


> Present statistics show that over 40% of our people are substantially overweight. This largely "preventable" epidemic is the root cause for almost 1/3rd of the nations medical problems and costs. I strongly suspect that the majority of those who have died, or become seriously ill due to Covid, fall into the substantially overweight category.


Yes, but not so simple. 

I believe most obesity is based on a natural instinct to eat as much and as rich as possible in a world of unnatural abundance.  The instinct is stronger in some than others.  We are right to fight obesity, but need to keep in mind the difficulties in fighting nature.


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## Paco Dennis

Alligatorob said:


> Yes, but not so simple.
> 
> I believe most obesity is based on a natural instinct to eat as much and as rich as possible in a world of unnatural abundance.  The instinct is stronger in some than others.  *We are right to fight obesity, but need to keep in mind the difficulties in fighting nature.*


I agree. One of our most basic instincts. I think the food industry is a major problem also, which still puts profits above well being.


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## Alligatorob

Paco Dennis said:


> food industry is a major problem


Yes!!  They have done an excellent job of milking that instinct for all it's worth.

I know a guy who was an oil chemist with one of the big food corps.  He said one of his primary jobs was to get as much oil into the food as possible without it being too noticeable.  They knew we are subconsciously attracted to the fattest foods, but most people consciously try to avoid the fats.  He even experimented with adding vegetable oil to soft drinks...


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## Gary O'

Hey, we're in the days of Rome
Lying on our fat backsides, shoveling it in

We're all just a few fries short of a Happy Meal

If it's there....people will eat it
The curse of a land of plenty

Happily, for me, physical work has been a huge blessing
If not for that, I'd be the only thing huge

No worries
It's all gonna change

I'd hate to be near anyone that's been feeding on their taste buds when their Whoppers aren't within reach their chubby mitts


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## SeaBreeze

Becky1951 said:


> Let's mandate them for their own good! Those within a healthy weight will get a food passport.


Trying to inject your sour stance on vaccines here Becky?  Mandates and passports, really?  Passive aggressive now?


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## SeaBreeze

Becky1951 said:


> Can you say vaccine mandate? Which I am against and my comment was geared towards if one mandate is supposedly for our own good, (Covid vaccines) taking away our choice to decide what's best for our own health, then obesity being also a health concern??? Where does it stop?


When someone is overweight, it doesn't affect everyone around them and doesn't spread anything deadly that kills hundreds of thousands of people.  When that happens, we can talk mandates and passports.  You're just bitter about life saving vaccines being required during a deadly worldwide pandemic.  Apples and oranges.


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## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> When someone is overweight, it doesn't affect everyone around them and doesn't spread anything deadly that kills hundreds of thousands of people.  When that happens, we can talk mandates and passports.  You're just bitter about life saving vaccines being required during a deadly worldwide pandemic.  Apples and oranges.


Oh, but it does affect others.  Using the pro-vaxxer's logic, overweight people often have weight-related illnesses that cause them to occupy hospital beds that are then unavailable to thinner patients.


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## SeaBreeze

win231 said:


> Oh, but it does affect others.  Using the pro-vaxxer's logic, overweight people often have weight-related illnesses that cause them to occupy hospital beds that are then unavailable to thinner patients.


Another of your ridiculous posts win.


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## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> Another of your ridiculous posts win.


Another of your replies for which you have no valid comment.


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## SeaBreeze

win231 said:


> Another of your replies for which you have no valid comment.


How many overweight people are in hospital beds compared to unvaccinated people infected with Covid, huh?  You're being ridiculous again, listen to yourself.  How many overweight people are killing their fellow Americans, huh?  How many overweight people are keeping this country in the depth of a deadly pandemic, huh?  Get real!


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## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> How many overweight people are in hospital beds compared to unvaccinated people infected with Covid, huh?  You're being ridiculous again, listen to yourself.  How many overweight people are killing their fellow Americans, huh?  How many overweight people are keeping this country in the depth of a deadly pandemic, huh?  Get real!


Unknown to you (obviously), there are many diseases related to obesity.  Do a bit of research.


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## SeaBreeze

win231 said:


> Unknown to you (obviously), there are many diseases related to obesity.  Do a bit of research.


When an obese person causes thousands of Americans to die because they infected them or spread a deadly virus, then come and talk to me.  Until then, you're just spinning and wasting people's time.  Don't get too dizzy, you can't afford it.


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## Don M.

After watching the latest episode of Yellowstone, I've been "channel hopping" between the Chiefs/Raiders game, and the CBS special "Adele, One Night Only",  I've always been a fan of Adele, and I'm glad to see that she is performing again.  She has Lost over 100lbs, and is Beautiful!!  She may become a "role model" for those who would like to lose weight.


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## Becky1951

The unvaccinated are not killing anyone, the Covid virus is and vaccinated people can get and spread the virus. And yes even vaccinated people die from it. Blaming the unvaccinated is ridiculous.


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## Judycat

Doctor's offices should have a nutritionist on staff and a gym in the basement instead of just handing out prescriptions and sending patients to surgeons.


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## SeaBreeze

Becky1951 said:


> The unvaccinated are not killing anyone, the Covid virus is and vaccinated people can get and spread the virus. And yes even vaccinated people die from it. Blaming the unvaccinated is ridiculous.


It's been shown that the unvaccinated spread the virus much more than the vaccinated. Articles have been posted right here to show you.  Also, more deaths occur in unvaccinated people.  Just because you refuse to read the information does not mean it is not true.  Not going to hijack this thread on weight anymore with anti-vaxx nonsense.  Save that garbage for the coronavirus forum.


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## win231

SeaBreeze said:


> It's been shown that the unvaccinated spread the virus much more than the vaccinated. Articles have been posted right here to show you.  Also, more deaths occur in unvaccinated people.  Just because you refuse to read the information does not mean it is not true.  Not going to hijack this thread on weight anymore with anti-vaxx nonsense.  Save that garbage for the coronavirus forum.


^^^^ Easy to turn some people into programmed robots.


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## dseag2

A thread that started with the obesity epidemic and ended with Covid vaccinations.  For f***k's sake, let it go already!


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## fmdog44

Murrmurr said:


> Fast food has been around for a long time. Arguably first was White Castle in 1921, then chains such as McDonald's, est. in1940, and KFC, est. in 1952, caught fire, and _boom_. But we didn't start seeing an obesity problem until the 80s, and by the 90s it was epidemic. I believe this has to do, at least in part, with cheaper cooking oils and food additives. The FDA funded some studies, so you'd think they would have stepped in strongly by the late 90s. But fast food is a bazillion-dollar industry, so that hasn't happened yet. I wonder if it will, eventually.


Also we weren't submitted to constant bombardments of sponsors telling us we need to eat the crap 3-5 times a day. And ask why do the McDonalds & Burger Kings have indoor play grounds for kiddies and a clown mascot? (Start them young approach)


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## Murrmurr

Alligatorob said:


> I believe most obesity is based on a natural instinct to eat as much and as rich as possible in a world of unnatural abundance.  The instinct is stronger in some than others.  We are right to fight obesity, but need to keep in mind the difficulties in fighting nature.


I would argue that our obesity problem is due to _what_ we eat, not _why_ we eat. No where is there a greater abundance of conveniently packaged snack foods and east-to-prepare processed foods than in developed countries, and America probably has the greatest abundance of that stuff than any other country (tho some are catching up). And I've seen statistics that show there is more obesity among poor people than those who can afford an abundance of food.


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## Murrmurr

SeaBreeze said:


> It's been shown that the unvaccinated spread the virus much more than the vaccinated. Articles have been posted right here to show you.  Also, more deaths occur in unvaccinated people.  Just because you refuse to read the information does not mean it is not true.  Not going to hijack this thread on weight anymore with anti-vaxx nonsense.  Save that garbage for the coronavirus forum.


Did you know that of the total covid deaths, vaxxed and unvaxxed, the majority had at least one comorbidity, and obesity ranks #1.

That statistic is on CDC's and the WHO's website (among others).


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## Murrmurr

fmdog44 said:


> Also we weren't submitted to constant bombardments of sponsors telling us we need to eat the crap 3-5 times a day. And ask why do the McDonalds & Burger Kings have indoor play grounds for kiddies and a clown mascot? (Start them young approach)


Actually, a place where a kid can burn off those calories isn't a bad idea. Too bad they don't require you eat first, then play.


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## Aunt Bea

It seems that we’re all more comfortable when we can find someone or something to blame for our own behavior.

It also seems that more and more we gravitate towards expensive and complicated solutions to everyday problems.

IMO If we stop using food as a reward or attaching emotional significance to it, make better choices, eat less, and move more we will be more than halfway to solving this problem.

Easy to say, but hard to do, like so many things in life.


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## Gary O'

There's always the Overeaters Anonymous Hot Line;

888-888-8888


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## SeaBreeze

dseag2 said:


> A thread that started with the obesity epidemic and ended with Covid vaccinations.  For f***k's sake, let it go already!


Thank you, these people are obsessed.


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## StarSong

I worked part-time at a McDonald's for nearly a year in 1971.    *Most adults ordered what is now the equivalent of a child's Happy Meal.* A regular hamburger (about 3.7 oz, 250 cal, ) or cheeseburger (300 cal), regular-sized order of fries (2.4 oz, 200 cal) and a small drink (12 oz, 140 cal) - no refills. So approx 590 calories. Mind you, this was an adult meal, not a snack. 

Growing teenaged boys and young men ordered Big Macs. Large fries (the kind not in the bag but in the red box) were sold far less often than the little bag of fries and were often split between two or more people. Those are now sold as "medium" fries. 

These days people typically order Quarter Pounders w/cheese (7.3 oz, 520 cal) or Quarter Pounder w/Cheese Deluxe (9.2 oz, 630 cal)), Large Fries (5.9 oz, 490 cal) and medium or large sodas (21 or 30 oz, 240 or more cal) plus free refills.    Approx 1250 calories.  

Going into a McD's or other fast food places at about 3:00 pm - when schools have just gotten out - is a quick lesson on why the obesity crisis exists.  Droves of adults, parents, children and teens, buying and wolfing down full meals of burgers, fries and sodas as between meal snacks.     

When I worked at McD's, business between mealtimes was almost non-existent. We didn't even open until around 11:00 for early lunches - breakfasts and Egg McMuffins were still in the future - and we closed by about 8 pm. 

That's just one small snapshot of why the obesity crisis has become so severe over the past 50 years.


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## Jules

Young people may get away without the weight gain.  It seems to catch up with them later.  My SIL is extremely busy and grabs fast food whenever he can.  It sure shows now.

It’s shocking the number of people who order fast food using pickup services like Uber Eats.  They’re also paying more because of delivery and tips.


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## JimBob1952

Murrmurr said:


> Fast food has been around for a long time. Arguably first was White Castle in 1921, then chains such as McDonald's, est. in1940, and KFC, est. in 1952, caught fire, and _boom_. But we didn't start seeing an obesity problem until the 80s, and by the 90s it was epidemic. I believe this has to do, at least in part, with cheaper cooking oils and food additives. The FDA funded some studies, so you'd think they would have stepped in strongly by the late 90s. But fast food is a bazillion-dollar industry, so that hasn't happened yet. I wonder if it will, eventually.


Something definitely happened.  I've also heard it blamed on high-fructose corn syrup.  

For some reason my wife and I decided to go "out to breakfast" yesterday (Sunday) which is something we never do.  At the place we wound up (first two places had hour waits for a table) I would say about half the people were morbidly obese.  Kind of a turnoff as you wait for your massively oversized order of pancakes to arrive.  

We won't do that again anytime soon.


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## Jules

Generally I think seniors do better in their weights, maybe because we were taught to cook.  It’s a small sample in our subdivision.  Right now there’s only one person who is very overweight and she’s dealing with diabetes and many other things.  There are two women that are extremely underweight and that’s also a major issue.  Most of us are just ordinary.  There are octogenarians who walk every day.


----------



## Aunt Bea

StarSong said:


> I worked part-time at a McDonald's for nearly a year in 1971.    *Most adults ordered what is now the equivalent of a child's Happy Meal.* A regular hamburger (about 3.7 oz, 250 cal, ) or cheeseburger (300 cal), regular-sized order of fries (2.4 oz, 200 cal) and a small drink (12 oz, 140 cal) - no refills. So approx 590 calories. Mind you, this was an adult meal, not a snack.
> 
> Growing teenaged boys and young men ordered Big Macs. Large fries (the kind not in the bag but in the red box) were sold far less often than the little bag of fries and were often split between two or more people. Those are now sold as "medium" fries.
> 
> These days people typically order Quarter Pounders w/cheese (7.3 oz, 520 cal) or Quarter Pounder w/Cheese Deluxe (9.2 oz, 630 cal)), Large Fries (5.9 oz, 490 cal) and medium or large sodas (21 or 30 oz, 240 or more cal) plus free refills.    Approx 1250 calories.
> 
> Going into a McD's or other fast food places at about 3:00 pm - when schools have just gotten out - is a quick lesson on why the obesity crisis exists.  Droves of adults, parents, children and teens, buying and wolfing down full meals of burgers, fries and sodas as between meal snacks.
> 
> When I worked at McD's, business between mealtimes was almost non-existent. We didn't even open until around 11:00 for early lunches - breakfasts and Egg McMuffins were still in the future - and we closed by about 8 pm.
> 
> That's just one small snapshot of why the obesity crisis has become so severe over the past 50 years.


Good point!

This was the McDonalds menu in the late 60s before they supersized everything including the customers.






I still walk to the local McDonalds for an inexpensive McDouble every now and then, the walk is my penance.


----------



## MrPants

Not related to fast food joints but something I have noticed in standard diners/restaurants in the US when I've dined out there, the portion sizes are huge in comparison to what I see in Canada at similar places. Not sure if that's still the case or not as I haven't been to the States for years.


----------



## JimBob1952

MrPants said:


> Not related to fast food joints but something I have noticed in standard diners/restaurants in the US when I've dined out there, the portion sizes are huge in comparison to what I see in Canada at similar places. Not sure if that's still the case or not as I haven't been to the States for years.



Yes, I noticed that yesterday.  I have a hearty appetite but could only eat about half what was brought me.  Lots of waste as well as overfeeding.


----------



## Murrmurr

JimBob1952 said:


> Something definitely happened.  I've also heard it blamed on high-fructose corn syrup.
> 
> For some reason my wife and I decided to go "out to breakfast" yesterday (Sunday) which is something we never do.  At the place we wound up (first two places had hour waits for a table) I would say about half the people were morbidly obese.  Kind of a turnoff as you wait for your *massively oversized order of pancakes* to arrive.
> 
> We won't do that again anytime soon.


Oh yeah, portion sizes are definitely abundant in the US. A buddy and former co-worker of mine lives in England and visits me every 2 or 3 years, and when he does I take him to a really good steak house or barbecue place. He's always blown away by the massive amounts of food we're brought. But he said that where he comes from, it isn't customary to take your left-overs home. He liked having his left-over steak with some fried eggs for next day's breakie.


----------



## MrPants

Murrmurr said:


> Oh yeah, portion sizes are definitely abundant in the US. A buddy and former co-worker of mine lives in England and visits me every 2 or 3 years, and when he does I take him to a really good steak house or barbecue place. He's always blown away by the massive amounts of food we're brought. But he said that where he comes from, it isn't customary to take your left-overs home. He liked having his left-over steak with some fried eggs for next day's breakie.


Yum, steak 'n eggs! Throw in some hash-browns; heaven


----------



## debodun

Combo of highly available foods with too much sugar, fat and salt and a sedentary life.


----------



## dseag2

MrPants said:


> Not related to fast food joints but something I have noticed in standard diners/restaurants in the US when I've dined out there, the portion sizes are huge in comparison to what I see in Canada at similar places. Not sure if that's still the case or not as I haven't been to the States for years.


Absolutely.  We ate at a place called Cavo, which is a Mediterranean style of healthy fast food.  I ordered a Harissa Avocado bowl and could only eat half of it.  I got two more servings out of it at home.  We could have shared it.  Ridiculous portions in meals at US restaurants.


----------



## Ruthanne

dseag2 said:


> Absolutely.  We ate at a place called Cavo, which is a Mediterranean style of healthy fast food.  I ordered a Harissa Avocado bowl and could only eat half of it.  I got two more servings out of it at home.  We could have shared it.  Ridiculous portions in meals at US restaurants.


But they give you Plenty to take home so what's wrong with that?


----------



## dseag2

Ruthanne said:


> But they give you Plenty to take home so what's wrong with that?


Nothing wrong with it, but we could have paid half the price for half the portion.


----------



## Ruthanne

dseag2 said:


> Nothing wrong with it, but we could have paid half the price for half the portion.


But they don't do that we knowToo bad they all don't give half orders like the place I go to does.


----------



## StarSong

dseag2 said:


> Nothing wrong with it, but we could have paid half the price for half the portion.


The cost of the food itself only makes up a small piece of a restaurant's prices.  Overhead, labor and waste cost them a fortune.  

If the restaurant gave half-sized  portions most would still charge at least 3/4 for it, not half.  

Does anyone else remember how irritating it was back when the _nouvelle cuisine _fad hit finer restaurants back in the 70s and 80s? Three bite entrees with "daring sauces." Meals cost a fortune and the bonus was you went home hungry.

I'd rather split an appetizer and entree or take home leftovers.


----------



## Knight

StarSong said:


> The cost of the food itself only makes up a small piece of a restaurant's prices.  Overhead, labor and waste cost them a fortune.
> 
> If the restaurant gave half-sized  portions most would still charge at least 3/4 for it, not half.
> 
> Does anyone else remember how irritating it was back when the _nouvelle cuisine _fad hit finer restaurants back in the 70s and 80s? Three bite entrees with "daring sauces." Meals cost a fortune and the bonus was you went home hungry.
> 
> I'd rather split an appetizer and entree or take home leftovers.


We won big time in Atlantic city so decided to spend some & went to eat at an expensive restaurant.  The menu featured  _nouvelle cuisine_  not knowing what that was we didn't want to appear dumb so we ordered steak medallions. 

Out comes two tiny circular thin slices of steak, three asparagus strips lined up perfectly &  a teaspoon of mashed potatoes.  I started laughing. One of the waiters came over to ask if I was OK.  I said yes I'm OK I was laughing because any of my 3 sons could easily eat 20 portions of what was served.


----------



## StarSong

Knight said:


> We won big time in Atlantic city so decided to spend some & went to eat at an expensive restaurant.  The menu featured  _nouvelle cuisine_  not knowing what that was we didn't want to appear dumb so we ordered steak medallions.
> 
> Out comes two tiny circular thin slices of steak, three asparagus strips lined up perfectly &  a teaspoon of mashed potatoes.  I started laughing. One of the waiters came over to ask if I was OK.  I said yes I'm OK I was laughing because any of my 3 sons could easily eat 20 portions of what was served.


Exactly.  I was single and actively dating when the trend hit.   Ugh. I'm not an especially big eater, but those Lilliputian-sized meals left me starving.  

More often than not I made myself a PB & J sandwiches after coming home from a date.  Betting the guys hit fast food places after saying goodnight to me.


----------



## RadishRose

Aunt Bea said:


> stop using food as a reward or attaching emotional significance to it


Amen to that!


----------



## RadishRose

dseag2 said:


> Absolutely.  We ate at a place called Cavo, which is a Mediterranean style of healthy fast food.  I ordered a Harissa Avocado bowl and could only eat half of it.  I got two more servings out of it at home.  We could have shared it.  Ridiculous portions in meals at US restaurants.


Don't worry, we pay for it.


----------



## Muskrat

Just an observation….anybody else noting the trend of the food industry to inject the meats with sometimes sugars or salts or both? Just try to purchase a turkey that has not been injected in any major grocery store in arizona. Also chicken, pork and some fish. Bring your cheaters and read the labels. It sure makes it hard to eat healthy…


----------



## win231

I'm not too concerned about weight, as long as I can get on a scale & it displays a number instead of _"One at a time, please."_


----------



## JustBonee

Doing my part to keep the weight down because I  weigh myself every morning,  and that's a great reminder to watch my daily intake.
It works for me.


----------



## David777

Notice this is a revived dated thread about American obesity.

I'm a small single Caucasian male 5'6" 138#, that has been BMI 22 or thereabouts most of my adult life.  One thing that regularly annoys me is having to buy food in packaging portions way larger than I usually feel like eating as a single serving.  So end up either having to cook too much or eat only half a portion of a package at a time that tends to also introduce spoilage issues on what goes to the fridge saved if I even bother to eat whatever. Am not saying all packaged food or menu items should be smaller but rather there ought be options to purchase half sized portions even if that causes max money agenda food marketers to puke reading this.  Yes some places have limited kids meals.

Yesterday for lunch had a Trader Joe's chopped salad kit that was 13.5 ounces and tossed about 1/3 after refusing to push down the whole rabbit loving thing. Impossible to preserve once sealed packaging opens to an oxygen atmosphere. Food like chilli or beans in cans weigh around 15 ounces. A normal serving for this person might be 8 ounces. 

Most chain restaurants are even worse, filling plates with more food than even large people tend to eat while expecting customers to take some home.  All this stretches the stomachs and intestines of people making them eat even more as many have a habit of not stopping until feeling full.  Thankfully, some like Subway have a 6 inch sandwich option versus 12 inch most are all too eager to wolf down.  Fast foods?  Always appreciated at McDonalds what was their dollar menu, McChicken, Cheeseburger, or Small Fries so yes there have always been exceptions.

Worst is vendor food at sports or concert event stadiums and arenas where any food at all in this era will be more than $10 with hotdogs $12 and burgers $15.  But it's not just the cost but rather the huge meal sizes of such food that is ridiculous.  So a massive $12 hotdog might go for say $8 if half size.  But never see that.

https://www.seniorforums.com/thread...hat-americans-weigh.65824/page-3#post-1916091

@StarSong..._I worked part-time at a McDonald's for nearly a year in 1971. Most adults ordered what is now the equivalent of a child's Happy Meal. A regular hamburger (about 3.7 oz, 250 cal, ) or cheeseburger (300 cal), regular-sized order of fries (2.4 oz, 200 cal) and a small drink (12 oz, 140 cal) - no refills. So approx 590 calories. Mind you, this was an adult meal, not a snack.  Growing teenaged boys and young men ordered Big Macs. Large fries (the kind not in the bag but in the red box) were sold far less often than the little bag of fries and were often split between two or more people. Those are now sold as "medium" fries.

These days people typically order Quarter Pounders w/cheese (7.3 oz, 520 cal) or Quarter Pounder w/Cheese Deluxe (9.2 oz, 630 cal)), Large Fries (5.9 oz, 490 cal) and medium or large sodas (21 or 30 oz, 240 or more cal) plus free refills. Approx 1250 calories. Going into a McD's or other fast food places at about 3:00 pm - when schools have just gotten out - is a quick lesson on why the obesity crisis exists. Droves of adults, parents, children and teens, buying and wolfing down full meals of burgers, fries and sodas as between meal snacks.

When I worked at McD's, business between mealtimes was almost non-existent. We didn't even open until around 11:00 for early lunches - breakfasts and Egg McMuffins were still in the future - and we closed by about 8 pm. That's just one small snapshot of why the obesity crisis has become so severe over the past 50 years._




Most r


----------



## Alligatorob

David777 said:


> One thing that regularly annoys me is having to buy food in packaging portions way larger than I usually feel like eating as a single serving.


You are right of course.  The easy availability of food, particularly high sugar and fat things has contributed considerably to our obesity problem.  In my case I was obese most of my adult life so I understand my situation anyway.  Smaller packaging probably wouldn't have helped me a lot, I would just have gotten more packages.  Did that all too often with reasonably sized portions and packages.

Its a complex problem, I believe many of us have an instinctive drive to eat all we can get our hands on.  Back when we were cave people that instinct was probably beneficial.  Today's food availability would have been unimaginable to our ancestors.  Managing that can be hard.


----------



## Knight

Probably just me seeing groups of people entering the country illegally don't look like they are overweight or obese.  

The claim fast food is cheaper could be true. But that perv Jarod something or other lost weight eating subs from subway & became their poster boy for weight loss.  No mystery that weight is relative to high caloric intake & low calorie burn. There are exceptions of course but my guess most in that category know the why of that & try to do what they can to minimize the impact. 

What I have been seeing recently on my morning walks are more & more people that are in the over weight/obese category out walking. Maybe the concern for misery of what overweight & obesity cause is sinking in.


----------



## Alligatorob

Knight said:


> What I have been seeing recently on my morning walks are more & more people that are in the over weight/obese category out walking.


I have been paying more attention to this around here in the last year or so, and I am amazed how many people are obese.  The other day I stated counting the people I saw and found over half the adults were overweight or obese.  Even at the gym I go to there are a lot of overweight/obese members.  Some are actively losing weight, but most are not.  I know they are better off for going to the gym, even obese...  

I have no solutions, just concern...


----------



## Nathan

We wouldn't want any government interference with the pursuit of the almighty dollar, even if the nation's health is at stake.   What would they call that...communism *no* socialism *no *consumerism. Hmmm, seems consumerism is dead these days, the commercial interests have the money, and money is power. The public? There's always more where that comes from...


----------



## senior chef

Over weight is caused by over consumption !  Period.  
I weigh 182 lbs and 6'2" tall. Hardly over weight.  I eat what ever I want, BUT I don''t STUFF myself. When I make a pepperoni, sausage + mushroom pizza for example, I'm content with merely 3-4 slices and a Pepsi. I never try to eat the whole darn thing.

An analogy:  Nothing wrong with having an alcoholic drink or two, now and again, but SOME people over do it and become alcoholics. 
Same with food ... any food.


----------



## Ronni

Ron and I eat the same foods, though different portion sizes (my portions are less.) We prepare most of our meals, eat out once every week or two, never fast food. We take lunch to work, don’t buy junk. Salads, yogurt, nuts, fruit. We cook fresh food from scratch, eat very little processed food. Lots of fruits and veggies, not a lot of carbs, chicken and fish, red meat once every week or two. A cocktail or glass of wine or a beer at night. We keep a pack of cookies for our dessert, he has two and I have one. No other sweets.


Ron is 180lbs at 6’2”. He’s maintained that his whole adult life with apparently no effort, does physical work, doesn’t exercise.

I’m 155lbs at 5’8 and I struggle HARD to not go over that. In fact its crept up from 145 over the past 10 years. I also do physical work and I DO exercise.

What makes us different? What makes his weight rock solid with no effort and mine such a daily struggle?

Neither of us is obese, far from it, but just the fact that he maintains his weight with no effort whereas I struggle to not gain and yet still do, in small increments every year, is a simplistic window into the obvious statement that weight/obesity is a complex, nuanced issue.

There is no one-size-fits-all solution (yes it’s a terrible, though apt, pun! )


----------



## Alligatorob

Ronni said:


> Neither of us is obese, far from it, but just the fact that he maintains his weight with no effort whereas I struggle to not gain and yet still do, in small increments every year, is a simplistic window into the obvious statement that weight/obesity is a complex, nuanced issue.


Yep, good point.

You have done very well 5'8" and 155 lbs is really good.  You are not overweight at all.


----------



## Don M.

Genetics and some medical conditions...thyroid, etc.,...can affect a persons weight.  However, for most, a poor diet and lack of exercise cause most weight problems.  Around here, it seems that half our people....young and old....are carrying a lot of extra weight.


----------



## oldpop

IMO most of us born in the fifties and up are basically human Guinea Pigs. The food we have ingested in the last seventies years is pretty much processed junk. Having said that I must also add that I eat it too. Some of it tastes pretty dang good.


----------



## Lawrence00

Sugar creates an addictive effect. Excessive strong cravings to consume more. The individuals that produce these foods know this. They like it. They make large profits. They work to addict children as lifelong addicts. Quite evil.


----------



## Ronni

Alligatorob said:


> Yep, good point.
> 
> You have done very well 5'8" and 155 lbs is really good.  You are not overweight at all.


Thank you. I don’t chart as being overweight. My height helps.

Nonetheless I’m at the upper end of a healthy BMI for my weight/height, and my entire adult life (excluding pregnancy) until menopause I was 20 pounds lighter than my current weight. I had no problem maintaining my weight at around 135 lbs, until menopause hit.

I don’t mean to make this thread about me. I’m just making the point (by illustrating the differences between my husband me) that there are many factors that contribute to this obesity epidemic, and one or two sweeping changes just won’t cut it. That’s a simplistic solution to a complex and multilayered problem.


----------



## Alligatorob

Ronni said:


> Nonetheless I’m at the upper end of a healthy BMI for my weight/height, and my entire adult life


That is not a bad place to be, even into the lower end of the "overweight" BMI probably isn't bad.

From JAMA
Association of All-Cause Mortality With Overweight and Obesity Using Standard Body Mass Index Categories
A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1555137

From NPR
Research: A Little Extra Fat May Help You Live Longer
https://www.npr.org/sections/health...hat being,of the American Medical Association.

From Web MD
Underweight Even Deadlier Than Overweight, Study Says Death risk nearly doubled for excessively thin people
https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20140328/underweight-even-deadlier-than-overweight-study-says

From CNN
Thin is in, but fat might be better
https://www.cnn.com/2013/01/16/health/weight-study/index.html

From Scientific American
Could a Few Extra Pounds Help You Live Longer?
A new Danish study provides more data but does not resolve the question
May 10, 2016
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/could-a-few-extra-pounds-help-you-live-longer/


----------



## StarSong

@Alligatorob, there's probably truth in the statement that a few extra pounds might not hurt as we get older, but the operative word is *few*. Not 50, 100 or 150 extra. More like 20 or less.


----------



## Alligatorob

StarSong said:


> @Alligatorob, there's probably truth in the statement that a few extra pounds might not hurt as we get older, but the operative word is *few*. Not 50, 100 or 150 extra. More like 20 or less.


That is right, if you look at the articles that's pretty much what they say.  Twenty pounds into the overweight BMI is not bad, in fact maybe better than a low BMI.  Much more than that is unhealthy.

From the CNN article cited above:

_The comprehensive study confirmed that obese people tend to die earlier than people of normal weight. But it also found that overweight people – those with a body mass index (BMI) of 25 to 30 – had a lower risk of dying than people of normal weight._


----------



## StarSong

Alligatorob said:


> That is right, if you look at the articles that's pretty much what they say.  Twenty pounds into the overweight BMI is not bad, in fact maybe better than a low BMI.  Much more than that is unhealthy.
> 
> From the CNN article cited above:
> 
> _The comprehensive study confirmed that obese people tend to die earlier than people of normal weight. But it also found that overweight people – those with a body mass index (BMI) of 25 to 30 – had a lower risk of dying than people of normal weight._


It seems that this study didn't take "minor" details into consideration, such as whether people were underweight because they were already dying of cancer or other wasting disease, so I take the study with a grain of salt.  Which I won't eat because, you know, blood pressure...


----------



## win231

Remember, studies show that women who carry a few extra pounds are much healthier & live longer......
than their husbands who mention it.


----------



## Mojaveoutdoors

fmdog44 said:


> Went to Walmart to get my Amoxicillin prescription filled and had to wait 40 minutes. I spent part of the time just looking at the grocery shelves. I got hung up on the sauces aisle thinking how much sugar is in all of these condiments like mayo, ketchups, BBQ sauces, salad dressings, gravies and the like. Then I went to the McDonalds inside the store for a cup of coffee and sat by the window with a view of the people coming in to Walmart.
> 
> Not that I am not overweight but severe obesity at the rate of what I saw today says no one is lying when they say we are at a critical stage of a national health crisis. The real crime is these people are young like under 30 and the choice of food at fast food restaurants all and I mean 100% unhealthy and it is everywhere we look. I don't see it ever ending and sadly it is 100% avoidable.


----------



## Mojaveoutdoors

fmdog44 said:


> Went to Walmart to get my Amoxicillin prescription filled and had to wait 40 minutes. I spent part of the time just looking at the grocery shelves. I got hung up on the sauces aisle thinking how much sugar is in all of these condiments like mayo, ketchups, BBQ sauces, salad dressings, gravies and the like. Then I went to the McDonalds inside the store for a cup of coffee and sat by the window with a view of the people coming in to Walmart.
> 
> Not that I am not overweight but severe obesity at the rate of what I saw today says no one is lying when they say we are at a critical stage of a national health crisis. The real crime is these people are young like under 30 and the choice of food at fast food restaurants all and I mean 100% unhealthy and it is everywhere we look. I don't see it ever ending and sadly it is 100% avoidable.


I just returned from a 10 day vacation to Disney World in Orlando. I was absolutely floored by the amount of overweight to very obese people there. I would estimate that easily more than half of the adults there were noticibly overweight and at least a third were obese. Many of them in the three to four hundred pound range. Statistics say now that over 40% of adults are overweight or obese. I would bet its closer to 60% by my observations.


----------



## C50

JustBonee said:


> America's Favorite Foods  ... and of course,  Potato Chips are the  #1 Snack ....
> 
> http://islandgrownschools.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/7/8/10785576/top_ten_foods_consumed_in_america.pdf



When at the grocery store I can't help myself from peeking at what obese people load into their carts.  Junk food, boxed food, sugary foods, and soda, almost always lots of soda.


----------



## Mojaveoutdoors

C50 said:


> When at the grocery store I can't help myself from peeking at what obese people load into their carts.  Junk food, boxed food, sugary foods, and soda, almost always lots of soda.


Yes I recently read that around 80% of the typical American's food is processed foods. Add to that that many people have very little knowledge about nutrition. They think just because they can go on some fad diet or extreme way of eating like Keto or Extreme low carb that everything will be ok from then on. They do not consider that it has to be something sustainable over the remainder of their lives. Tis why many people gain it all back after a short time because they revert back to eating all the processed sugary junk and the excess calories.


----------



## DebraMae

How about portion control and we all eat what we want to.  

I think part of the problem is what we now consider a normal portion.  According to an old doctor of mine we should never eat a meal that is larger than our fist. 

I remember being a teen and going to a restaurant where I ordered chicken.  They brought out a half of a chicken on my plate.  I sat there with my mouth hanging open.  Up until that point I had considered a drumstick to be a portion of chicken.  I think we have all gotten used to larger and larger portions, whatever it is.

And I know for a fact trying to "guilt" people about what or how much they eat is a terrible idea.


----------



## Mojaveoutdoors

DebraMae said:


> How about portion control and we all eat what we want to.
> 
> I think part of the problem is what we now consider a normal portion.  According to an old doctor of mine we should never eat a meal that is larger than our fist.
> 
> I remember being a teen and going to a restaurant where I ordered chicken.  They brought out a half of a chicken on my plate.  I sat there with my mouth hanging open.  Up until that point I had considered a drumstick to be a portion of chicken.  I think we have all gotten used to larger and larger portions, whatever it is.
> 
> And I know for a fact trying to "guilt" people about what or how much they eat is a terrible idea.


People still have to eat a balanced diet. If all I ate all day was five modest portions of chocolate cake with buttercream frosting it would be dangerous for my health. So yes what you eat is as important as is how much you eat.


----------



## Alligatorob

A few years back I lost a lot of weight.  At first my goal was to reach a "normal" or "average" weigh.  It surprised me to discover that in the US that "average" weight was overweight or obese...  Not the best goal.


----------



## Paco Dennis

My BMI ( Body Mass Index) according to this chart....is 25. Barely overweight....not obese or healthy though. 


https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/ed...pdf/tipsheets/Are-You-at-a-Healthy-Weight.pdf


----------



## Gary O'

Paco Dennis said:


> My BMI ( Body Mass Index) according to this chart....is 25


I don't know what my BMI should be
But
My BMs are spectacular!

I'm (or was) 6 foot
on the happy side of 200 lbs

Feel good

Walk alot
still work rather hard


----------



## DebraMae

Mojaveoutdoors said:


> People still have to eat a balanced diet. If all I ate all day was five modest portions of chocolate cake with buttercream frosting it would be dangerous for my health. So yes what you eat is as important as is how much you eat.


Yes, I understand, and you are right.


----------



## caroln

Seeing very obese adults is sad but what really bothers me is seeing 2 obese parents walking with their 2 obese children.  I only hope the kids find a way to break the cycle.


----------



## Paco Dennis

Gary O' said:


> I don't know what my BMI should be
> But
> My BMs are spectacular!
> 
> I'm (or was) 6 foot
> on the happy side of 200 lbs
> 
> Feel good
> 
> Walk alot
> still work rather hard


Being 6 ft you would have to weigh 221 lbs. ( according to this chart ) to be considered obese. Congrats on the BM's!


----------



## Mojaveoutdoors

Murrmurr said:


> Fast food has been around for a long time. Arguably first was White Castle in 1921, then chains such as McDonald's, est. in1940, and KFC, est. in 1952, caught fire, and _boom_. But we didn't start seeing an obesity problem until the 80s, and by the 90s it was epidemic. I believe this has to do, at least in part, with cheaper cooking oils and food additives. The FDA funded some studies, so you'd think they would have stepped in strongly by the late 90s. But fast food is a bazillion-dollar industry, so that hasn't happened yet. I wonder if it will, eventually.


You will never see any intervention from the FDA. The govt wants us to be fat. Because if we are fat then we are more unhealthy. And if we we are unhealthy then we are more dependent on the insurance and "healthcare" industry. And therefore more dependent on big pharma. The powers that be make money off sick people. They do not make money off of healthy people.


----------



## Murrmurr

Mojaveoutdoors said:


> You will never see any intervention from the FDA. The govt wants us to be fat. Because if we are fat then we are more unhealthy. And if we we are unhealthy then we are more dependent on the insurance and "healthcare" industry. And therefore more dependent on big pharma. The powers that be make money off sick people. They do not make money off of healthy people.


Yeah, that was my point, but I think there'll be a day of reckoning for the good ol' FDA, and I'm starting to feel like it's not all that far away. Like, maybe within a decade or 2. Cracks in the foundation are showing.

But maybe I'm being too optimistic. The US gov't moves fast when it really wants to, like when one of their scams schemes civil services starts showing cracks.


----------



## C50

Mojaveoutdoors said:


> You will never see any intervention from the FDA. The govt wants us to be fat. Because if we are fat then we are more unhealthy. And if we we are unhealthy then we are more dependent on the insurance and "healthcare" industry. And therefore more dependent on big pharma. The powers that be make money off sick people. They do not make money off of healthy people.



I have to disagree with your comments.  People want their freedoms of choice, that's why you see so many options while at the stores.  It's not the FDA or big pharma, it's us people that drives all those options and competition in the snack isles. 

Human beings are glutinous animals, we want everything we can get our dirty little hands on and have insatiable appetites. That trait has helped us evolve in many positive ways,  hunger for knowledge, enlightenment, exploration, advancements, etc. that have mostly been good for our species.

Yet that same insatibility can also destroy us, we just don't know how to control ourselves and food is a perfect example.  Do we need a hundred chip options? No. How about a hundred soda options? Or a hundred cereal options? Or more and more and more of whatever? Of course we don't need it,  but we sure do want it, and we will eat and drink ourselves to death.


----------



## Victoria

fmdog44 said:


> Went to Walmart to get my Amoxicillin prescription filled and had to wait 40 minutes. I spent part of the time just looking at the grocery shelves. I got hung up on the sauces aisle thinking how much sugar is in all of these condiments like mayo, ketchups, BBQ sauces, salad dressings, gravies and the like. Then I went to the McDonalds inside the store for a cup of coffee and sat by the window with a view of the people coming in to Walmart.
> 
> Not that I am not overweight but severe obesity at the rate of what I saw today says no one is lying when they say we are at a critical stage of a national health crisis. The real crime is these people are young like under 30 and the choice of food at fast food restaurants all and I mean 100% unhealthy and it is everywhere we look. I don't see it ever ending and sadly it is 100% avoidable.


Yes, it's all of the processed food and fake food that's behind it. They are not really concerned about it or else they would change how food is made. They deliberately make food addictive and add sugar to things that don't need sugar. They add sodium where it's not needed and add animal products to things that don't need it. As a vegan I have to read all food labels to avoid animal products and you wouldn't believe how much "food" has animal products in it unnecessarily. Sugar and salt too! The food here is atrocious. The food not only makes people obese, it makes them sick. And unfortunately it starts as soon as a baby is introduced to food.


----------



## Victoria

Murrmurr said:


> Fast food has been around for a long time. Arguably first was White Castle in 1921, then chains such as McDonald's, est. in1940, and KFC, est. in 1952, caught fire, and _boom_. But we didn't start seeing an obesity problem until the 80s, and by the 90s it was epidemic. I believe this has to do, at least in part, with cheaper cooking oils and food additives. The FDA funded some studies, so you'd think they would have stepped in strongly by the late 90s. But fast food is a bazillion-dollar industry, so that hasn't happened yet. I wonder if it will, eventually.


Also though, when fast food  first came out, not many people ate out. 90% still ate at home. It wasn't till many fast food commercials and processed food came out that people started over eating.


Aunt Bea said:


> I’m afraid that it will get worse during this period of high inflation.
> 
> People will choose more inexpensive sugary cereals, blue box Mac & cheese, soda, etc...


And that's the problem. Ramen soup is like 3 for a  $1 but fruit and salads are like $5 or more. What do you think poor people will choose. Soda is under $2 but healthy drinks are $5 or more. Unhealthy meal options are cheap but healthy meal options are expensive.


Della said:


> I sometimes think we wouldn't have become so obese if we hadn't tried so hard not to be.  When I was a teen I thought I was a bit too fat at 5'6" 115 lbs.  This was because my best friend weighed 110. (?)
> 
> So I was extremely interested in all the weight loss schemes and the articles about diet and exercise in my mother's magazines; Journal, Redbook, Vogue, Bazaar, Good Housekeeping, plus my own Seventeen, Glamour, Mademoiselle and Ingenue.  They almost all _only_ had such articles in April or May to prepare us for "swimsuit season."
> 
> Weight Watchers hadn't started yet and anyone who exercised was under suspicion as a "health nut."  My female classmates did no exercise or sports unless forced to in gym class.  We ate whatever we felt like including all our mothers' home baked cookies and cakes, meatloaf, mashed potatoes and tiny servings of canned peas. No we didn't have much fast food, we didn't need to, it was all at home in the form of pancakes and bacon for breakfast, hot school lunches and big hearty dinners.
> 
> Yet we were all fairly thin.  I think it was because our metabolisms and hormones worked.  We quit eating when we were full and our brain knew when were full because we had never dieted.
> 
> When we became obsessed with diets; low fat, low carb, South Beach, Atkins, raw food. and fasting we set our selves on a path of yo-yoing -- with every diet ending in a regain plus ten more pounds.
> 
> Now our bodies are so messed up we can't fix it.  I no longer think obesity is preventable.  Sure we can lose, but 98% regain so it's fairly hopeless.
> https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/
> Read it and weep.


Yup, just look at the people on The Biggest Loser. They say thier body and metabolism were damaged permanently from the weight loss. The healthiest way to lose weight is very slowly, like no more than 4 pounds a month. But when people do decide to commit to a weight loss regimen, they are told they are supposed to lose like 20 pounds a month or something. Everything has to be instant.


----------



## perChance

There are some people who have medical conditions that 'mess up' their metabolism and make it difficult for them to maintain a healthy weight.  I don't know what % of obese people fall into that category.  

If an obese person isn't in that group, I wonder how they gained all that excess weight.  Didn’t they clue in when they were only 20 or 30 lbs over weight that they had a problem?  Instead of buying bigger clothes wouldn't it be easier to change your eating/exercise habits and fix the problem before it takes over your life?  I believe in taking responsibility for my bad choices.

A very wise person once told me that to stay healthy don't eat anything that your grandparents couldn't buy or grow - stay away from processed junk.


----------



## C50

perChance said:


> Instead of buying bigger clothes wouldn't it be easier to change your eating/exercise habits and fix the problem before it takes over your life?



I believe for many the answer is no.  People do not like to deny themselves pleasure. 
To many people eating/drinking is not about sustenance but is a source of security and recreation.  In a world of instant gratification people give in to the want of the moment instead of considering long term consequences.

People are also masters of deceptive reasoning, "it's the holidays", "it's winter", "I'm on vacation", etc.  Always an excuse to overindulge, suddenly clothes don't fit and since you can't drop twenty pounds in a weekend they purchase larger clothes.  Then their new normal is size large, and that's easier to accept then denying themselves the pleasure of eating as they want.

It's typically a cycle of many years and to break those lifestyle habits is so very hard, it's just easier to buy larger clothes.


----------



## Nathan

perChance said:


> Instead of buying bigger clothes wouldn't it be easier to change your eating/exercise habits and fix the problem


Yes, that's taking responsibility and control of one's life, rather than be held hostage by life's poor choices.


----------



## Nemo2




----------



## StarSong

C50 said:


> I have to disagree with your comments. People want their freedoms of choice, that's why you see so many options while at the stores. It's not the FDA or big pharma, it's us people that drives all those options and competition in the snack isles.


I'm surprised at the lack of empathy on this thread with "just do it" and "just say no" types of attitudes.  All of us are acquainted with the sublime draw of highly processed foods including commercially made entrees, snacks and desserts.       

_Every_ overweight/obese person I know feels great frustration, shame, hopelessness and fear at their inability to slim their bodies, and are on diets for most of their lives. Many on this forum express exactly those emotions. .

Processed and fast food manufacturers (along with alcohol, tobacco, and legal and illegal psychotropic drug providers) are opportunists preying on consumers' pocketbooks without regard to their health. Capitalism at its finest.  Corporations exploit aspects of our physiology that draw us to fats, sweets and salt.

Craving sources of dense calories served humans well when scarcity was the name of the game, which was true for nearly all of our existence. Salt was mostly rare, thus we continue to desire it.  Unfortunately, we can't easily turn off genes that helped ensure our survival for 200,000 years, despite their becoming problematic over the past 100 years or so.

Overcoming addictions and strong physiological desires, including food, drugs or alcohol, can be a lifelong struggle.  Since we must consume nourishment regularly, food problems are especially hard.  Add in meal-prep time crunches with most adults working full time outside the home, it's simply faster and easier to pull together some mac and cheese or grab take-out than to make a meal from scratch ingredients. 

DH & I raised three children while running a small business that saw some lean financial periods so I know whereof I speak.  We eat a lot healthier now that I don't have those time and financial constraints.

p.s. Since moving to a largely plant-based diet nearly 9 years ago, I avoid most processed foods and virtually all fast foods.  My weight has been far easier to control and my BMI remains in the 21s. That said, with the exception of pregnancy and brief post-partum periods, I've never had a BMI over 25.  I'm well aware that it could have been otherwise but for a lucky draw from the DNA pool.


----------



## JimBob1952

StarSong said:


> I'm surprised at the lack of empathy on this thread with "just do it" and "just say no" types of attitudes.  All of us are acquainted with the sublime draw of highly processed foods including commercially made entrees, snacks and desserts.
> 
> _Every_ overweight/obese person I know feels great frustration, shame, hopelessness and fear at their inability to slim their bodies, and are on diets for most of their lives. Many on this forum express exactly those emotions. .
> 
> Processed and fast food manufacturers (along with alcohol, tobacco, and legal and illegal psychotropic drug providers) are opportunists preying on consumers' pocketbooks without regard to their health. Capitalism at its finest.  Corporations exploit aspects of our physiology that draw us to fats, sweets and salt.
> 
> Craving sources of dense calories served humans well when scarcity was the name of the game, which was true for nearly all of our existence. Salt was mostly rare, thus we continue to desire it.  Unfortunately, we can't easily turn off genes that helped ensure our survival for 200,000 years, despite their becoming problematic over the past 100 years or so.
> 
> Overcoming addictions and strong physiological desires, including food, drugs or alcohol, can be a lifelong struggle.  Since we must consume nourishment regularly, food problems are especially hard.  Add in meal-prep time crunches with most adults working full time outside the home, it's simply faster and easier to pull together some mac and cheese or grab take-out than to make a meal from scratch ingredients.
> 
> DH & I raised three children while running a small business that saw some lean financial periods so I know whereof I speak.  We eat a lot healthier now that I don't have those time and financial constraints.
> 
> p.s. Since moving to a largely plant-based diet nearly 9 years ago, I avoid most processed foods and virtually all fast foods.  My weight has been far easier to control and my BMI remains in the 21s. That said, with the exception of pregnancy and brief post-partum periods, I've never had a BMI over 25.  I'm well aware that it could have been otherwise but for a lucky draw from the DNA pool.


 You are right, of course.  But recently there has been a lot of "body positivity" and acceptance of being fat, with "plus sized" models everywhere in advertisements.  I don't know if that's good or bad. 

I have no advice.  It's easy to put weight on but nearly impossible to take it off permanently.  Nothing works very well.  Plant based is certainly healthier and better for the planet.


----------



## Disgustedman

Paco Dennis said:


> My BMI ( Body Mass Index) according to this chart....is 25. Barely overweight....not obese or healthy though.
> 
> 
> https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/ed...pdf/tipsheets/Are-You-at-a-Healthy-Weight.pdf


Well, being brutally honest, I'm beyond 35....

Which I know is partly the reason I have breathing issues when walking. First, I'll have to drop weight. Luckily I just got in my food cutter.

I'm not trying to go extreme. Just cut out the snacks, drinking flavored water and yes portion control.

That's why I won't hit buffets. I tried the Golden Corral. I never realized that there were so many 400+ lb people here. 

Now I'm not going to dis my food generous neighbor, but I'll cut back severely the amounts I take. I doubt I'd ever see 145 lbs. But 195, would make me happy.


----------



## JaniceM

JimBob1952 said:


> You are right, of course.  But recently there has been a lot of "body positivity" and acceptance of being fat, with "plus sized" models everywhere in advertisements.  I don't know if that's good or bad.


From my viewpoint, that's large part of the problem.


----------



## Nemo2

JaniceM said:


> From my viewpoint, that's large part of the problem.


With the emphasis on.....


----------



## JaniceM

Nemo2 said:


> With the emphasis on.....


Everyone deserves to be loved, cared about, etc.
But the emphasis on 'this is what REAL women/people look like' (even said in that way on some sites and tv commercials) is making matters worse.


----------



## C50

StarSong said:


> I'm surprised at the lack of empathy on this thread with "just do it" and "just say no" types of attitudes.  All of us are acquainted with the sublime draw of highly processed foods including commercially made entrees, snacks and desserts.
> 
> _Every_ overweight/obese person I know feels great frustration, shame, hopelessness and fear at their inability to slim their bodies, and are on diets for most of their lives. Many on this forum express exactly those emotions. .
> 
> Processed and fast food manufacturers (along with alcohol, tobacco, and legal and illegal psychotropic drug providers) are opportunists preying on consumers' pocketbooks without regard to their health. Capitalism at its finest.  Corporations exploit aspects of our physiology that draw us to fats, sweets and salt.
> 
> Craving sources of dense calories served humans well when scarcity was the name of the game, which was true for nearly all of our existence. Salt was mostly rare, thus we continue to desire it.  Unfortunately, we can't easily turn off genes that helped ensure our survival for 200,000 years, despite their becoming problematic over the past 100 years or so.
> 
> Overcoming addictions and strong physiological desires, including food, drugs or alcohol, can be a lifelong struggle.  Since we must consume nourishment regularly, food problems are especially hard.  Add in meal-prep time crunches with most adults working full time outside the home, it's simply faster and easier to pull together some mac and cheese or grab take-out than to make a meal from scratch ingredients.
> 
> DH & I raised three children while running a small business that saw some lean financial periods so I know whereof I speak.  We eat a lot healthier now that I don't have those time and financial constraints.
> 
> p.s. Since moving to a largely plant-based diet nearly 9 years ago, I avoid most processed foods and virtually all fast foods.  My weight has been far easier to control and my BMI remains in the 21s. That said, with the exception of pregnancy and brief post-partum periods, I've never had a BMI over 25.  I'm well aware that it could have been otherwise but for a lucky draw from the DNA pool.



My post wasn't intended to lack empathy.  I absolutly agree with your comments about snack and beverage producers being opportunist, that is a huge part of the problem. Same with all the diet gurus and diet supplements, many are opportunist.   Yet they are only responding to what consumers want, we want freedom of choice and lots of choices, and we want easy solutions for our overindulgence.

Many people will never have the willpower to police their own habits, but also wouldn't be willing to allow any government oversight of their eating or drinking choices, at least not yet.

I feel sympathy for any person caught up in a destructive cycle, be it eating or drugs or whatever.  It's a terrible predicament to know you are harming yourself but still remain powerless to stop.


----------



## Della

perChance said:


> If an obese person isn't in that group, I wonder how they gained all that excess weight. Didn’t they clue in when they were only 20 or 30 lbs over weight that they had a problem? Instead of buying bigger clothes wouldn't it be easier to change your eating/exercise habits and fix the problem before it takes over your life? I believe in taking responsibility for my bad choices.


If fixing the problem were as easy as you think it is 98% of people who lose weight wouldn't regain it within a few years and no, it isn't always a matter of returning to "bad choices" it's a matter of  their body beginning to think there's a famine going on and slowing the metabolism to a crawl.  

One doctor who runs the Harvard obesity research lab said that dieting was like swimming under water it looks easy and it is easy at first, but the moment comes when your lungs take over your brain and pop you up for air.  That's what happens to most dieters after a while.

It is easy to, as you suggest, to change eating and exercise habits, but it's not so easy to be hungry day after day year after year and toss and turn in bed every night from hunger.  If you think it's possible to lose weight and not be hungry, you're wrong it's only sick people who can do that.

I do take responsibility for my choices.  You don't need to concern yourself with them at all.  I don't owe you a slim body or even good health, that's for me to decide. Sooner of later we're all going to die and if you're worried about the money I might take from Medicare, just think of the cost of Social Security for all those healthy people who live to 100.


----------



## Nemo2

JaniceM said:


> Everyone deserves to be loved, cared about, etc.
> But the emphasis on 'this is what REAL women/people look like' (even said in that way on some sites and tv commercials) is making matters worse.


The end of _my_ sentence would have been 'large'.


----------



## perChance

Della said:


> If fixing the problem were as easy as you think it is 98% of people who lose weight wouldn't regain it within a few years and no, it isn't always a matter of returning to "bad choices" it's a matter of  their body beginning to think there's a famine going on and slowing the metabolism to a crawl.
> 
> One doctor who runs the Harvard obesity research lab said that dieting was like swimming under water it looks easy and it is easy at first, but the moment comes when your lungs take over your brain and pop you up for air.  That's what happens to most dieters after a while.
> 
> It is easy to, as you suggest, to change eating and exercise habits, but it's not so easy to be hungry day after day year after year and toss and turn in bed every night from hunger.  If you think it's possible to lose weight and not be hungry, you're wrong it's only sick people who can do that.
> 
> I do take responsibility for my choices.  You don't need to concern yourself with them at all.  I don't owe you a slim body or even good health, that's for me to decide. Sooner of later we're all going to die and if you're worried about the money I might take from Medicare, just think of the cost of Social Security for all those healthy people who live to 100.


I didn't say it was going to be easy - but my point is that it is far easier to address a small problem before it becomes a large problem.  You don't owe me anything - but perhaps you owe it to yourself.


----------



## StarSong

perChance said:


> I didn't say it was going to be easy - but my point is that it is far easier to address a small problem before it becomes a large problem.  You don't owe me anything - but perhaps you owe it to yourself.


Most people DO begin addressing it when it's a small problem.  Dieting seems to make matters worse.


----------



## perChance

StarSong said:


> Most people DO begin addressing it when it's a small problem.  Dieting seems to make matters worse.


Perhaps I should have said healthy eating habits and more exercise.  From what I have read about weight loss, people start crazy diets, lose the weight, then return to the same bad habits.


----------



## Della

StarSong said:


> Most people DO begin addressing it when it's a small problem.  Dieting seems to make matters worse.


Yes, that 98% regain usually comes with more pounds than we started with. 

I weighed 110 pounds after I was done having my baby at age 20, and then I started smoking and stayed that thin until I was 45 and quit smoking.  My eating habits were about the same., but I gained weight and my doctor says I'm much better off than if I had continued to smoke. 

So, during my lean years, I would hear how thin people talk about overweight ones,  "How could she let herself go like that?" "Isn't she ashamed?" etc.  I never liked to hear such judgmental talk and I always knew it was far more complicated than they think.

Most people only gain about ten pounds a year but over ten years that can really add up.  To gain that extra weigh all anyone had to do was decide they needed to eat more fruit and so add a 100 calorie apple to their daily intake.  The picture some people have of overweight people gorging on Big Macs and bags of chips is usually not the case.


----------



## NorthernLight

Thank you, @Della . I get so upset when I read "just eat less" or "stop eating [fat, sugar, whatever]," because it just isn't true for everyone. I find it difficult to even respond. You expressed what I couldn't say.

I think we all know thin people who live on cake and candy, and fat people who starve themselves.

It's fine to say, "This is what worked for me." But it might not work for everyone.

Similarly, certain diets do work for some people, and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.


----------



## win231

JaniceM said:


> From my viewpoint, that's large part of the problem.


Yes, it's a.......huge problem.


----------



## Paco Dennis

Maybe we are addicted to sugar? Simple. But, very hard to stop...it is in almost everything we eat.


----------



## perChance

Think I will leave this thread with one last comment.  Sorry if I offended anyone, but my father taught me that feeling sorry for myself wouldn't accomplish anything.  He said, "If you have a problem, find a solution."  That was his guiding principle.


----------



## JaniceM

perChance said:


> Think I will leave this thread with one last comment.  Sorry if I offended anyone, but my father taught me that feeling sorry for myself wouldn't accomplish anything.  He said, "If you have a problem, find a solution."  That was his guiding principle.


Sounds like he was an intelligent fellow.


----------



## NorthernLight

I'm not advocating feeling sorry for oneself. I'm all for finding a solution to one's problems. 

But those who criticize others' choices might not know what they're talking about, and are not being helpful.

I speak as a person who is healthier than most people my age, and who has successfully lost weight. But then all I hear is "That can't be healthy," along with irrelevant and unwanted diet advice.


----------



## Della

perChance said:


> Think I will leave this thread with one last comment.  Sorry if I offended anyone, but my father taught me that feeling sorry for myself wouldn't accomplish anything.  He said, "If you have a problem, find a solution."  That was his guiding principle.


Did he say that to people with incurable diseases, deformities, or birth defects?  If they replied that they couldn't change something because they were born that way or there was no cure for their disease did he accuse them of feeling sorry for themselves? 

 Not every problem in the world has a solution and many people just have to learn to live with their circumstances.  It makes me sad to hear that others are blaming these people for the unfortunate hand they are dealt.


----------



## Nemo2

A lot of "Whatabouts...".....perhaps we should tell the entire world that it's not their fault about _anything?_

Knew a guy, since passed, who as a young fellow helped his parents move to a new house.  He was tall, so tall that when he looked out the upstairs window his knees were above the sill.......so that when he lost his balance he had nothing to stop him falling.

Woke up a paraplegic........no cure.....worked at getting on the Canadian Wheelchair Basketball team......traveled overseas with the team.....held a steady job......never a "Poor me".

Couldn't change it, couldn't fix it...but never complained.


----------



## NorthernLight

Seems the only people complaining on this thread are those who think others are eating the wrong things.


----------



## Victoria

perChance said:


> A very wise person once told me that to stay healthy don't eat anything that your grandparents couldn't buy or grow - stay away from processed junk.


I love that!  


C50 said:


> I believe for many the answer is no.  People do not like to deny themselves pleasure.
> To many people eating/drinking is not about sustenance but is a source of security and recreation.  In a world of instant gratification people give in to the want of the moment instead of considering long term consequences.
> 
> People are also masters of deceptive reasoning, "it's the holidays", "it's winter", "I'm on vacation", etc.  Always an excuse to overindulge, suddenly clothes don't fit and since you can't drop twenty pounds in a weekend they purchase larger clothes.  Then their new normal is size large, and that's easier to accept then denying themselves the pleasure of eating as they want.
> 
> It's typically a cycle of many years and to break those lifestyle habits is so very hard, it's just easier to buy larger clothes.


And it doesn't help that clothing sizes are not consistent either for women. One brand's medium is another brand's large.  One brand or store's size 6 is another brand or store's size 10. So sometimes they could be getting bigger clothes and think they're getting the same size. It's almost like they deliberately set up as many booby traps as they can. Obesity creates health issues and health issues generate money. If they really wanted obesity gone, they could get rid of it without  policing people. Just stop selling bad food and people won't be able to buy what's not there.


Della said:


> If fixing the problem were as easy as you think it is 98% of people who lose weight wouldn't regain it within a few years and no, it isn't always a matter of returning to "bad choices" it's a matter of  their body beginning to think there's a famine going on and slowing the metabolism to a crawl.
> 
> One doctor who runs the Harvard obesity research lab said that dieting was like swimming under water it looks easy and it is easy at first, but the moment comes when your lungs take over your brain and pop you up for air.  That's what happens to most dieters after a while.
> 
> It is easy to, as you suggest, to change eating and exercise habits, but it's not so easy to be hungry day after day year after year and toss and turn in bed every night from hunger.  If you think it's possible to lose weight and not be hungry, you're wrong it's only sick people who can do that.
> 
> I do take responsibility for my choices.  You don't need to concern yourself with them at all.  I don't owe you a slim body or even good health, that's for me to decide. Sooner of later we're all going to die and if you're worried about the money I might take from Medicare, just think of the cost of Social Security for all those healthy people who live to 100.


It's because the survival instinct is so strong. The body fights against low calories because it goes into survival mode. It's like trying to kill yourself by holding your breath. Your body won't let you. The worse that will happen if they manage to hold it long enough is the person will pass out and then they'll start breathing again. The only way is to trick the body by losing very gradually. 200 fewer calories a day is like eating one less granola bar a day. But the 200 will add up to 1400 fewer calories a week and do that over time and the weight will slowly come off. But people want instant results, they want to see the scale drop quickly or they feel like it's not working.


StarSong said:


> Most people DO begin addressing it when it's a small problem.  Dieting seems to make matters worse.


I remember reading a study about how even thin people if they start dieting to lose like 10 pounds, eventually  it screws up their body and it leads to actual weight gain once they are done. Trying to lose weight the wrong way triggers something in the body. The body gets PTSD and starts overeating. How many teens and young people who are a healthy size start out trying to just lose 5 or 10 pounds for some occasion or to look better? It starts something in their body that is very hard to undo.


----------



## Victoria

Paco Dennis said:


> Maybe we are addicted to sugar? Simple. But, very hard to stop...it is in almost everything we eat.


Sugar and salt. Yes it's in everything processed. Whole food plant based is the only way to avoid too much of it. We're supposed to have no more than 2300mg of salt/sodium a day. Read the food labels of just about every processed food. Tons of sodium in it to the point where 2300 mg seems impossible. It's crazy.


----------



## win231

Paco Dennis said:


> Maybe we are addicted to sugar? Simple. But, very hard to stop...it is in almost everything we eat.





perChance said:


> There are some people who have medical conditions that 'mess up' their metabolism and make it difficult for them to maintain a healthy weight.  I don't know what % of obese people fall into that category.
> 
> If an obese person isn't in that group, I wonder how they gained all that excess weight.  Didn’t they clue in when they were only 20 or 30 lbs over weight that they had a problem?  Instead of buying bigger clothes wouldn't it be easier to change your eating/exercise habits and fix the problem before it takes over your life?  I believe in taking responsibility for my bad choices.
> 
> A very wise person once told me that to stay healthy don't eat anything that your grandparents couldn't buy or grow - stay away from processed junk.


Yes, I heard a nutritionist say, _"Most foods you should eat come from a plant; not made in a plant."_


----------



## Victoria

win231 said:


> Yes, I heard a nutritionist say, _"Most foods you should eat come from a plant; not made in a plant."_


Yes exactly!


----------



## Della

My son's a vegan, everything he eats comes from a plant, and he still weighs 230 lbs.  

Is that a "whatabout?" I'm not clear on that. 



Nemo2 said:


> A lot of "Whatabouts..."....*.perhaps we should tell the entire world that it's not their fault about *_*anything?*_



 I think what happens on lots of these threads about weight is that the people who are overweight and talking about it are seen as whining when they're really just sharing their experiences, and people who aren't overweight have heard bits of advice they want to tell us about to "help" us, but we've already heard it many times and given it a try to no avail, so it doesn't go down well. 

 I've lost weight a half a dozen times by counting calories on a balanced, healthy diet, eating about 1200 calories a day, losing at a _slow_ 1 pound a week for a few months and then only a half pound a week for the rest of the year.  Yes. I usually stick to it for about a year, without a single cheat day, and lose to my desired weight.  And then the weight starts coming back even while I'm still counting calories.  I'm not whining about it I'm stating a fact.

I'm not saying my weight isn't my "fault."   I'm just saying it's not anyone else's business.    It's not against the law.  It doesn't impinge on your rights, it's not a crime, it isn't hurting you, it's not a moral failing, it's just a little more  adipose tissue on my body than on yours. 

Maybe you have something about your body that isn't perfect.  Do you have long thick hair?  I do. I'm not looking down my nose at people with thinning hair, making unwanted suggestions I heard on YouTube, telling them their hair is their fault and they should do something about it. Do you have all your teeth?  My brothers and I never had a cavity because of our well water when we were young.  I don't nag people about their teeth, tell them it's their fault and they should find a solution to their problem.  It's their business. 

Look at it this way, I've never had a traffic ticket in my entire life.  Have you?  If you've had even one speeding ticket then you've endangered the health of others more than my few extra pounds have.  So just leave me alone with it and try not to be so upset that the fat acceptance movement is trying to keep young girls from hating themselves.


----------



## Nemo2

Della said:


> So just leave me alone with it and try not to be so upset that the fat acceptance movement is trying to keep young girls from hating themselves.


A long post "full of sound and fury"...(and _non sequiturs_)...I thought the premise of this thread, (but hey, I've been wrong before), was the high percentage of obese individuals.

The bottom line is "Yes, there are"........right alongside that is "Do I give a rodent's rectum?"

People have been attempting to suggest to those who are obese, and don't want to be, approaches they might take and attitudes they might adopt in order to swing the pendulum.

If the obese consider themselves 'happy' with the status quo...."Carry on.."


----------



## Della

Nemo2 said:


> A long post "full of sound and fury"...(and _non sequiturs_)...I thought the premise of this thread, (but hey, I've been wrong before), was the high percentage of obese individuals.
> 
> The bottom line is "Yes, there are"........right alongside that is "Do I give a rodent's rectum?"
> 
> *People have been attempting to suggest to those who are obese, and don't want to be, approaches they might take and attitudes they might adopt in order to swing the pendulum.*
> 
> If the obese consider themselves 'happy' with the status quo...."Carry on.."


Seriously?  I went back and read your post looking for the suggested approaches and only saw a lot of complaints about complaining. 

(Is that short enough for your attention span?)


----------



## Nemo2

Della said:


> Seriously?  I went back and read your post looking for the suggested approaches and only saw a lot of complaints about complaining.
> 
> (Is that short enough for your attention span?)


I said PEOPLE, not MY post....sheesh.  (I typed that slowly in order to make it easier to comprehend.)

Anyway...I'll leave you to keep dreaming of the day when Rubenesque is synonymous with skeletal.


----------



## Della

I'll leave you to keep dreaming of the days gone by when any woman of any size cared whether or not you found them attractive.


----------



## Nemo2

Della said:


> I'll leave you to keep dreaming of the days gone by when any woman of any size cared whether or not you found them attractive.


"L'esprit de l'escalier"........


----------



## JaniceM

NorthernLight said:


> Seems the only people complaining on this thread are those who think others are eating the wrong things.


or simply don't want people to DIE sooner than necessary...

and/or are seriously concerned about the effects of this so-called 'movement' on young kids..


----------



## Mojaveoutdoors

Paco Dennis said:


> Maybe we are addicted to sugar? Simple. But, very hard to stop...it is in almost everything we eat.


"Maybe"? The American Heart Association says the average American Adult eats 60 pounds of sugar a year. So I would say instead of maybe, that we are definately addicted to sugar. Refined sugars are a highly addictive thing and it is clearly the #1 reason so many Americans (as well as many people across the globe) are overweight or obese.
Think about it. The average adult in the 60's was a normal healthy weight. The percentage of very overweight or obese people then was in the single digits. Yet people still ate a relatively high fat and high calorie diet. What they did not do is consume the insane amount of sugar we now do. And they were more active throughout their day. Drinking an 8 ounce bottle of pop at the end of the day was a treat then. How many people now polish off numerous large cups of soda pop and other sugar filled drinks through the day ?


----------



## Jean-Paul

In France, we spot the American tourists kilometers away, they are so overweigh and out of shape. 

Weight is simple Thermodynamics....energy input = energy consumption no change
More energy ( calories) than needed excess stored by body as fat, weight gain
visa versa

Diet..cut sugar, fructose, veg oils except Virgin olive oil, alcohol.
I am a veggie for decades, walk 5..9 km/ day

Bon courage 

j


----------



## win231

Paco Dennis said:


> Maybe we are addicted to sugar? Simple. But, very hard to stop...it is in almost everything we eat.


If you mean naturally-occurring sugar like that found in fruit (as opposed to added sugar), there's a good reason for that - it's our main energy source.  That's why we convert 100% of carbohydrate we eat into glucose.
In fact it's the main energy source for every living thing, including carnivores.  Animals that don't eat carbohydrates also run on sugar (glucose). Their systems are set up to convert a high percent of protein to carbohydrate.
The sugar we don't need is added sugar/processed sugar, found in "Fun Foods."


----------



## StarSong

Jean-Paul said:


> *In France, we spot the American tourists kilometers away, they are so overweigh and out of shape.*
> 
> Weight is simple Thermodynamics....energy input = energy consumption no change
> More energy ( calories) than needed excess stored by body as fat, weight gain
> visa versa
> 
> Diet..cut sugar, fructose, veg oils except Virgin olive oil, alcohol.
> I am a veggie for decades, walk 5..9 km/ day
> 
> Bon courage
> 
> j


Generalizing is a dangerous game, particularly when it's meant to be insulting or condescending.  
Not all American tourists are overweight and out of shape.  
But you already knew that.


----------



## hearlady

I know. It's like saying we spot the French in this country because they wear turtlenecks and berets.


----------



## StarSong

hearlady said:


> I know. It's like saying we spot the French in this country because they wear turtlenecks and berets.


Or they're chain smoking.


----------



## win231

StarSong said:


> Generalizing is a dangerous game, particularly when it's meant to be insulting or condescending.
> Not all American tourists are overweight and out of shape.
> But you already knew that.


LOL - the _"My country is better than yours" syndrome._


----------



## Pepper

StarSong said:


> Generalizing is a dangerous game, particularly when it's meant to be insulting or condescending.
> *Not all American tourists are overweight and out of shape. *
> But you already knew that.


No but many are.  I lived in Europe and saw I could spot most Americans a block away.  That was years ago and I can only imagine it's worse now.  As well as spotting us a block away, I heard us a block away.


----------



## Della

StarSong said:


> Generalizing is a dangerous game, particularly when it's meant to be insulting or condescending.
> Not all American tourists are overweight and out of shape.
> But you already knew that.


If they aren't overweight the French figure they aren't American and vice versa.  The British do it, too.  I was standing in line at some tourist spot in England and the English woman next to me pointed out a group of noisy, brightly dressed tourists and told me they were obvioulsy those disgusting Yanks.  I passed the group later and heard them speaking French.


----------



## Jean-Paul

Actually I  am an American! Living in Paris on and off a long  time. The behavior, speech tone, appearance and culture are so different, thus any who are non native  French stand out.

When I  return to USA ( or UK) I suffer from culture shock...I avoid supermarkets, restaurants and cities in general. 

The French culture, mentality and language took many years to begin to understand.

Bon Soirée 

Jon


----------



## Blessed

Jean-Paul said:


> Actually I  am an American! Living in Paris on and off a long  time. The behavior, speech tone, appearance and culture are so different, thus any who are non native  French stand out.
> 
> When I  return to USA ( or UK) I suffer from culture shock...I avoid supermarkets, restaurants and cities in general.
> 
> The French culture, mentality and language took many years to begin to understand.
> 
> Bon Soirée
> 
> Jon



How did you end up in Paris?  I was born there as a military brat but returned home shortly after one year in France and two years in Germany.


----------



## Jean-Paul

StarSong said:


> Generalizing is a dangerous game, particularly when it's meant to be insulting or condescending.
> Not all American tourists are overweight and out of shape.
> But you already knew that.


Starsong, the laws of thermodynamics are inescapable.  Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it can only change in form. Thus my note about the cause of weight change is not " generalizing", just physics.

Bon courage 

Jon


----------



## Jean-Paul

Blessed said:


> How did you end up in Paris?  I was born there as a military brat but returned home shortly after one year in France and two years in Germany.


So, in 1970, as a young engineer working at a NY office of a French electronic firm, we built and shipped a huge Analyzer for ESRO, European Space Agencies.  It arrives to Paris totally wrecked due tofreight damage. But the chief engineer had no passport, and I had one, I was assigned to immediately fly to the factory and fix the system, during a weekend and return.

Each day telex arrives in Paris that I should continue work another day. Lived in hotels in 5th eg rue des Écoles, near Sorborne.  Eventually I stayed 3 months in Spring 1970s. Returnd ever since and finally learning French and have résidence in 6th by St Germain des près.  A dream!
Vive la France !
Cordialement 

Jon


----------



## Nemo2

Jean-Paul said:


> Actually I  am an American! Living in Paris on and off a long  time. The behavior, speech tone, appearance and culture are so different, thus any who are non native  French stand out.
> 
> When I  return to USA ( or UK) I suffer from culture shock...I avoid supermarkets, restaurants and cities in general.
> 
> The French culture, mentality and language took many years to begin to understand.
> 
> Bon Soirée
> 
> Jon


First time I was in Paris, 1963, three 20 year olds heading east.  Got off the metro, rush hour, lost....stopped a lady, probably on her way to work......she just turned around and took us to where we needed to go......greatly appreciated.

In Saudi my late wife had an arrangement with Air France......sold tickets on the project...we got, (generally upgraded), free tickets.  Just about the only people who balked at overnighting in Paris were Quebeckers who often complained that they were treated like hicks.


----------



## StarSong

Jean-Paul said:


> Starsong, the laws of thermodynamics are inescapable.  Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it can only change in form. Thus my note about the cause of weight change is not " generalizing", just physics.
> 
> Bon courage
> 
> Jon


In my response I bolded your statement, "*In France, we spot the American tourists kilometers away, they are so overweigh *(sic) *and out of shape."*

That was the insulting, condescending generalization to which I referred, not the basic laws of physics that we began to learn in primary school classes.

Jean-Paul, if you stick around SF, you'll read numerous posts by members who've battled weight problems most of their adult lives, have dieted repeatedly, exercised religiously and feel great frustration (and often shame) at their inability to lose weight.     

My own body is slender, and for that I credit a happy combination of DNA, a reasonably good metabolism, good mental health that doesn't need calming with food, drugs or alcohol, a healthy eating style, and general good health that (so far) allows me be physically active. In that order. 

Not all are so fortunate.


----------



## Della

Jean-Paul said:


> Starsong, the laws of thermodynamics are inescapable.  Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it can only change in form. Thus my note about the cause of weight change is not " generalizing", just physics.
> 
> Bon courage
> 
> Jon


Bonjour

Dr. Jung says the human body is not about physics, but physiology and thus thermodynamics are irrelevant to it.

https://blog.thefastingmethod.com/first-law-thermodynamics-irrelevant/


----------



## horseless carriage

fmdog44 said:


> The real crime is these people are young like under 30 and the choice of food at fast food restaurants all and I mean 100% unhealthy and it is everywhere we look. I don't see it ever ending and sadly it is 100% avoidable.


America's obesity is something that, for the sake of conflict, I avoid. My wife and I have been to the US many, many times. We loved it, we were always, and I mean always, made to feel welcome. So commenting on, what is the subject of this thread, pains me. It is the diet, of course it is, but it's the companies, like the tobacco companies, that create the addiction of an unhealthy diet. I don't want to say too much, as I have said, America is a country that my wife and I both love, a country where we have been made to feel most welcome.

The first "biggy" that I ever saw was a young man, so big was he, that he walked with a backward lean, much the same way an expectant mother does in the latter stages of pregnancy, he did so to counterbalance his enormous stomach. He wore a baggy pair of shorts, they probably enhanced the size of his thighs, but even so, it was impossible to see daylight between his legs anywhere above the knee. The sight depressed me. How can it be so? 

The answer is simple, the companies responsible should be treated in much the same way as the tobacco companies and the cause of obesity be highlighted in the same way that we know of the link between smoking and cancer. Whilst some have slipped through the net, many smokers of yesteryear are non smokers today. If draconian measures can succeed with tobacco, then why can it not succeed with diet?


----------



## Victoria

horseless carriage said:


> America's obesity is something that, for the sake of conflict, I avoid. My wife and I have been to the US many, many times. We loved it, we were always, and I mean always, made to feel welcome. So commenting on, what is the subject of this thread, pains me. It is the diet, of course it is, but it's the companies, like the tobacco companies, that create the addiction of an unhealthy diet. I don't want to say too much, as I have said, America is a country that my wife and I both love, a country where we have been made to feel most welcome.
> 
> The first "biggy" that I ever saw was a young man, so big was he, that he walked with a backward lean, much the same way an expectant mother does in the latter stages of pregnancy, he did so to counterbalance his enormous stomach. He wore a baggy pair of shorts, they probably enhanced the size of his thighs, but even so, it was impossible to see daylight between his legs anywhere above the knee. The sight depressed me. How can it be so?
> 
> The answer is simple, the companies responsible should be treated in much the same way as the tobacco companies and the cause of obesity be highlighted in the same way that we know of the link between smoking and cancer. Whilst some have slipped through the net, many smokers of yesteryear are non smokers today. If draconian measures can succeed with tobacco, then why can it not succeed with diet?


And very often, that addiction begins as a toddler when parents unknowingly start feeding them the kind of food that is addictive.


----------



## Jean-Paul

A moment please.....My family was overweight, cardiac, and circulatoire disease, type  2 diabetes, high blood pressure,Dad had fatalities stroke at 66.

I have found that intermittent fasting to be effective for weight control and overall extends lifespan and health 

Personally a veggie since 1976, recently years down to 1..2 meals per day. That gives the digestive tract and body a rest each day from digesting and processing your food. The best food  is at the farmers markets, fruits, veggies, with bread and cheese or yougert.

I believe the obésité and diet issues in USA are caused by both early poor diet habits, as well as psychologie, eg compensation of personal problems by overeating. 
so, blaming corporate food firms  is not a solution, since  each of us has their own free will to decide and make personal  life choices.  

As an optimist, I still  seek to learn, and extend my quality  of life.

Wishing all of you an ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC healthy holiday!

Jon


----------



## Pepper

StarSong said:


> My own body is slender


Hate that word 'slender' and not so happy with 'slim' either.  I still like you though.


----------



## Della

Whenever anyone would call my dad "skinny" he would put on his fake girly mannerisms and say, I prefer to be called "slender."

I always liked, "slender."  I never liked it when men would call me "lean," or "fit." It made me feel like a construction worker. The worst was one day when my husband and I were talking to a neighbor (this was before he got his retirement belly and I quit smoking) and the guy said, "Ya'll look like ya'll have tapeworms."


----------



## JimBob1952

There's a Gatorade commercial now airing that depicts various fit people exercising.  It also shows a massively fat woman doing something (stretching or yoga, I'm not sure.)  

I'm of two minds about this.  When I see an overweight person at the gym I think, "That's great.  You are welcome here."

But when I see this on TV I also think, "You (the makers of the advertisement) are normalizing a deadly condition.  You would never show someone smoking, but you show someone carrying about 150 extra pounds."

I guess in the end I would rather have the overweight people included as an encouragement to go out and do some activity.  But it's a weird world.  I had something like 700 people in my high school class and I can only think of about three people who were seriously overweight.  There would probably be 70 now, maybe more.


----------



## OldFeller

This just in...


----------



## Della

JimBob1952 said:


> I guess in the end I would rather have the overweight people included as an encouragement to go out and do some activity.  But it's a weird world.  I had something like 700 people in my high school class and I can only think of about three people who were seriously overweight.  There would probably be 70 now, maybe more.


We only had one in my class of 200 (poor girl.)  I don't think showing fat people on TV is the same as showing people smoking.  People can't leave their fat at home and just because young people see something on TV doesn't mean they're going to see it as ideal and copy it. It certainly won't offset all the messages young women get from magazines and movies that tell them they have to be thin to be acceptable.

Anorexia is far more deadly than obesity.


----------



## Della

OldFeller said:


> This just in...View attachment 259122


Oh just stop it.  America has an obesity rate of 36%, Italy 20%, Australia 30%,  Canada 30%, United Kingdom 27%, France 22%.  It's a world wide problem and America leads those other countries in giving up smoking. As those countries follow the stop smoking trend they gain weight and start catching up with us.  As the French and Italians drink their wine and smoke their cigarettes and  write books about why they don't get fat they're filling up the lung cancer wards.  They have no reason to feel superior to us.


----------



## JimBob1952

Della said:


> We only had one in my class of 200 (poor girl.)  I don't think showing fat people on TV is the same as showing people smoking.  People can't leave their fat at home and just because young people see something on TV doesn't mean they're going to see it as ideal and copy it. It certainly won't offset all the messages young women get from magazines and movies that tell them they have to be thin to be acceptable.
> 
> Anorexia is far more deadly than obesity.



Thank you, that is a very thoughtful comment.


----------



## Nemo2

Della said:


> Anorexia is far more deadly than obesity.


I'd posit that anorexia and extreme obesity are both sides of the same coin.


----------



## Liberty

Son is very obese and we've talked to him again and again.  Its his lack of "lifestyle management".  He owns a software company and sits for most of the day (and some nights).  He is a mindless eater and avoids exercise, travels extensively where he sits at clients facilities and takes them out for "fine dining", then gets back on a plane (First Class Cabin) for home or another client's office... rinse and repeat!

The last time they were down to stay with us, hub told him "you need to take care of yourself, son...you know I want you to bury me and not the other way around.

As hub says "you have to want something else more than eating.


----------



## StarSong

Della said:


> Whenever anyone would call my dad "skinny" he would put on his fake girly mannerisms and say, I prefer to be called "slender."
> 
> I always liked, "slender."  I never liked it when men would call me "lean," or "fit." It made me feel like a construction worker. The worst was one day when my husband and I were talking to a neighbor (this was before he got his retirement belly and I quit smoking) and the guy said, "Ya'll look like ya'll have tapeworms."


I typically wear a size 8.  To me, slender means the smaller side of average.  Maybe that's the wrong word to use.  

I'm not thin, skinny, slight or tiny.


----------



## Pepper

StarSong said:


> I'm not thin, skinny, slight or tiny.


I saw those pics of you on the beach!  YES YOU ARE!  Embrace it!


----------



## debodun

I heard the average American gains 10 pounds over the year-end holidays that they never lose. I know I have to get back on track after eating a lot of things I probably shouldn't have. I shudder to think of my monthly weigh-in coming up on January 7th. All the items in the photo are gone now except the cashews, some of the almonds and the jar of lemon curd.


----------



## Della

What _are_ you going to do with that jar of lemon curd, Deb?


----------



## debodun

Della said:


> What _are_ you going to do with that jar of lemon curd, Deb?


I haven't made and definite plans.


----------



## Packerjohn

Fact is that eating out at fast food restaurant is a killer.
Fact is that these fat people will die at an early age from diabetes, heart attacks or strokes.
Fact is that most folks have no self discipline.
Fact is that you are what you eat.  You eat "garbage" you body become "garbage."

In case your interested, this morning for breakfast I had porridge with raisins, bananas, wheat germ and skim milk with 0 % fat.
Tomorrow for breakfast, I will enjoy fruit with yogurt and topped with hemp hearts.

Hey!  At my age I need all the help I can get.


----------



## Don M.

It seems like when we go to the stores....especially Walmart...half the people are overweight.....and their grocery carts always seem to have a case of beer or diet soda....could that be a contributor???


----------



## Jean-Paul

StarSong said:


> *In France, we spot the American tourists kilometers away, they are so overweigh *(sic) *and out of shape.......*the insulting, condescending generalization
> 
> So sorry Starsong, no insult nor condescending intended.






StarSong said:


> It was,merely my observations in Paris after many years living in 6th, population with Tourists.  The other clews the French have to spot America's......talk'in loudly, poorly dressed, not speaking a word of French.....


On the other hand, som3 American Ex Pat friends in Paris, are fluent in Fr,  great build and they workout daily.  Indeed a variety of Americans in Paris. Nobody is perfect!

Jon


----------



## Victoria

Della said:


> We only had one in my class of 200 (poor girl.)  I don't think showing fat people on TV is the same as showing people smoking.  People can't leave their fat at home and just because young people see something on TV doesn't mean they're going to see it as ideal and copy it. It certainly won't offset all the messages young women get from magazines and movies that tell them they have to be thin to be acceptable.
> 
> Anorexia is far more deadly than obesity.


Yes, I think showing emaciated women or men on TV is a lot worse than showing someone overweight. Anorexia and bulimia didn't start till the emaciated image of women started becoming the norm on TV. That's when young girls started messing up their body and metabolism with starving themselves.


Nemo2 said:


> I'd posit that anorexia and extreme obesity are both sides of the same coin.


Bingo!! They are both an eating disorder and both are unhealthy.


----------



## Victoria

Don M. said:


> It seems like when we go to the stores....especially Walmart...half the people are overweight.....and their grocery carts always seem to have a case of beer or diet soda....could that be a contributor???


Yes! Soda needs to be banned. Beer is nothing but liquid bread.


----------



## Victoria

Della said:


> What _are_ you going to do with that jar of lemon curd, Deb?


What *is* that anyway?


----------



## Della

Victoria said:


> What *is* that anyway?



It's a creamy cold sauce made with lemon juice and egg yolks, often added to desserts to give that sweet/tart taste.  Spread it on top of cheese cake and you'll forget all about your weight problems.


----------



## StarSong

> StarSong said:  It was,merely my observations in Paris after many years living in 6th, population with Tourists.  The other clews the French have to spot America's......talk'in loudly, poorly dressed, not speaking a word of French.....


I said none of what you quoted in your response.  Those are your words, not mine.      

Many international tourists visit Los Angeles and a fair percentage speak little or no English.  No big deal.  We welcome them and do our best to accommodate them.  I have no expectations that people from non-English speaking countries will speak English.  Why would they?  Between charades and context, we figure it out, usually with quite a bit of laughter on both sides.  



Jean-Paul said:


> On the other hand, som3 American Ex Pat friends in Paris, are fluent in Fr, great build and they workout daily. Indeed a variety of Americans in Paris. Nobody is perfect!


Glad to hear some Americans manage to meet your expectations.


----------



## StarSong

Victoria said:


> What *is* that anyway?


It's similar to the lemon layer in lemon meringue pie.  


Della said:


> It's a creamy cold sauce made with lemon juice and egg yolks, often added to desserts to give that sweet/tart taste.  Spread it on top of cheese cake and you'll forget all about your weight problems.


Lemon curd is delicious and deadly - one spoonful and you won't stop eating it until it's gone!


----------



## Pepper

My mother was fluent in French.  When she & dad went to Paree she would not speak, but wait to hear them being insulted in French, then she would open her mouth to tell them off--in French.  Goddard was great at showing the French for how they really are.


----------



## debodun

Victoria said:


> Yes! Soda needs to be banned.


Why is that?


----------



## Jean-Paul

debodun said:


> Soda needs to be banned....Why is that?


Sugar or artificial sweetener chemicals, zero nutrition, addictive, 
Read the ingredients....and sodium, calories, sugars, chemicals.

jon


----------



## debodun

I drink a lot of soda, but it's diet or seltzers.


----------



## Don M.

debodun said:


> I drink a lot of soda, but it's diet or seltzers.


Diet soda is loaded with artificial sweeteners....which trick the brain into "wanting more".  That is good for the soda companies, but bad for your health, and does little to aid in weight loss.

https://www.medicinenet.com/do_diet_sodas_really_cause_weight_gain/article.htm


----------



## JimBob1952

Victoria said:


> Yes! Soda needs to be banned. Beer is nothing but liquid bread.



No ban on diet ginger ale, please.  And please don't even think about banning beer.  How about just consuming all things in moderation?


----------



## Shalimar

StarSong said:


> It's similar to the lemon layer in lemon meringue pie.
> 
> Lemon curd is delicious and deadly - one spoonful and you won't stop eating it until it's gone!


I make homemade curd in a variety of flavours.


----------



## Timewise 60+

A few here seem to think our government should force added controls on behaviors of people.  Now we all understand that our government, in all its wisdom, does already do some of this, (e.g., vaccines) But some think controlling what we eat should be included.

For those who really believe this.   Then it may be time for you to move to one of those fine countries that specialize in controlling your lives, like the USSR or Cuba...


----------



## Geezer Garage

No buzz from bread my friend. I have a beer or cocktail nearly everyday, but I do abstain for a month or so every year, just because. I would say that I'm under the proscribed weight for my height, but I'm also very active.



Victoria said:


> Yes! Soda needs to be banned. Beer is nothing but liquid bread.


----------



## Chet

I think a lot of people's eating habits are picked up off their parents. I see overweight kids with overweight parents all the time. Another determining factor is that some people see food as entertainment. After supper they go out in the evening for pizza.


----------



## debodun

This is one of two cookies an aunt brought to my house. They are the size and shape of hamburgers.


----------



## Victoria

Geezer Garage said:


> No buzz from bread my friend. I have a beer or cocktail nearly everyday, but I do abstain for a month or so every year, just because. I would say that I'm under the proscribed weight for my height, but I'm also very active.


LOL I meant other than the alcohol.


----------



## Victoria

Della said:


> It's a creamy cold sauce made with lemon juice and egg yolks, often added to desserts to give that sweet/tart taste.  Spread it on top of cheese cake and you'll forget all about your weight problems.





StarSong said:


> It's similar to the lemon layer in lemon meringue pie.
> 
> Lemon curd is delicious and deadly - one spoonful and you won't stop eating it until it's gone!


Oh I see! Thanks!  


debodun said:


> I drink a lot of soda, but it's diet or seltzers.


Soda is full of chemicals like others said, especially aspartame. It's unhealthy.


Timewise 60+ said:


> A few here seem to think our government should force added controls on behaviors of people.  Now we all understand that our government, in all its wisdom, does already do some of this, (e.g., vaccines) But some think controlling what we eat should be included.
> 
> For those who really believe this.   Then it may be time for you to move to one of those fine countries that specialize in controlling your lives, like the USSR or Cuba...


I don't think the food makers should be allowed to sell fake food full of harmful chemicals that trick the brain into becoming addicted to it. That's what I'm talking about. Do you REALLY want to live where anything you buy from the store may be loaded with any kind of lethal chemicals and not know it? You shouldn't need to become a chemist and have to thoroughly research *every single thing you buy* from the store to make sure it's not hidden poison. You should be able to feel safe that what you buy from the store is at least real food and not poison.


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## Victoria

.


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## perChance

Perhaps consumers should read the labels - and take responsibility for what they buy and consume.  There are no invisible goblins in the grocery stores forcing you to buy junk food.  
There is already too much government in our lives.


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## JaniceM

Chet said:


> I think a lot of people's eating habits are picked up off their parents. I see overweight kids with overweight parents all the time. Another determining factor is that some people see food as entertainment. After supper they go out in the evening for pizza.


What it is, is lack of priorities.


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## Jean-Paul

perChance said:


> Perhaps consumers ..... take responsibility....
> There is already too much government in our lives.



Perchance: Exactly my sentiments...A moment please: 

Nowadays, would any gov official or politician EVER take responsibility for ANYTHING ? Why should ordinary folks think to do so? 

Foods we eat, weight, health is largely determined by your own free will.

A few quotes: 

"I am the responsible official of government and I take full responsibility (for the invasion) " John F Kennedy...after the 1961 Bay of Pigs...

"The powers of the federal government are FEW and LIMITED" Benjamin Franklyn

"_Free will_. ...I only set the stage. You pull your own strings." - Al Pacino as John Milton, the real devil, in 1990s film "The Devil's Advocate"

 "I am a free man! I AM NOT A NUMBER!" 1960s  TV series "The Prisoner" by Patric McGoohan as #6.



Enjoy and be free! 

Jon


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## Disgustedman

horseless carriage said:


> The answer is simple, the companies responsible should be treated in much the same way as the tobacco companies and the cause of obesity be highlighted in the same way that we know of the link between smoking and cancer. Whilst some have slipped through the net, many smokers of yesteryear are non smokers today. If draconian measures can succeed with tobacco, then why can it not succeed with diet?


No, it's up to the individual to choose. The govt has banned advertising, open sporting events (sponsored by tobacco) they haven't stopped smoking or had makers follow a plan of "Least harm" 

The states, ahhhh. THEY have done more. Alabama has a 67 cent pack tax. Washington state has $3.03 per pack tax. God. Most cartons are $88 or more in WA or OR.

I'd rather we adopted some EU food rules (No washing of eggs, no high fructose corn syrup and others) let's bring back PE to all schools, 1 hour a day.

I once was a smoker in high school  in PE we had to run a mile and a half everyday for 3 months then other stuff. Imagine, a 15 year old blubber butt beating HALF THE CLASS in a event they should have mopped the floor with me.


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## Packerjohn

Don M. said:


> It seems like when we go to the stores....especially Walmart...half the people are overweight.....and their grocery carts always seem to have a case of beer or diet soda....could that be a contributor???


Where I live and where I shop I have noticed that the "very large people" love to buy potato chips.


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## Packerjohn

Sitting in front of the telly and eating is another fast ticket to the land of the "Big and Fat."


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## debodun

I prefer corn (taco) chips to potato.


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## win231

JaniceM said:


> What it is, is lack of priorities.


Another reason:  There aren't many guarantees in life - with people, relationships, products.
But there is one guarantee:  When you eat something you like, you are guaranteed to enjoy it.
I've never heard anyone say, "I had some ice cream & I didn't enjoy it."


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## JaniceM

win231 said:


> Another reason:  There aren't many guarantees in life - with people, relationships, products.
> But there is one guarantee:  When you eat something you like, you are guaranteed to enjoy it.
> I've never heard anyone say, "I had some ice cream & I didn't enjoy it."


That's an interesting way of looking at it!!


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## Jean-Paul

if you cant stand the heat, dont come into the kitchen! 

Jon


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## Jules

Packages of snacks, etc have key words on them to attract the consumer.  Back when Cholesterol was the biggest evil, I overheard a couple of big women looking at a  bag of chips and deciding it was perfectly healthy because of the No Cholesterol in prominent letters.  They bought a few large bags.   We need more basic health education. 

Today the words to see on a product are No Gluten or Vegan.  That doesn’t mean they’re healthy.  People need to know how to read the nutritional info and what it means in the big picture for your health.


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## Victoria

Disgustedman said:


> No, it's up to the individual to choose. The govt has banned advertising, open sporting events (sponsored by tobacco) they haven't stopped smoking or had makers follow a plan of "Least harm"
> 
> The states, ahhhh. THEY have done more. Alabama has a 67 cent pack tax. Washington state has $3.03 per pack tax. God. Most cartons are $88 or more in WA or OR.
> 
> I'd rather we adopted some EU food rules (No washing of eggs, no high fructose corn syrup and others) let's bring back PE to all schools, 1 hour a day.
> 
> I once was a smoker in high school  in PE we had to run a mile and a half everyday for 3 months then other stuff. Imagine, a 15 year old blubber butt beating HALF THE CLASS in a event they should have mopped the floor with me.


But the EU has no high fructose corn syrup because it's *banned* there.  That's what I'm saying to do here.


win231 said:


> Another reason:  There aren't many guarantees in life - with people, relationships, products.
> But there is one guarantee:  When you eat something you like, you are guaranteed to enjoy it.
> I've never heard anyone say, "I had some ice cream & I didn't enjoy it."


That's true, I've heard of many people saying food is the friend they can count on. I was watching one obesity show and an obese man said that when he is stressed and he sees an plate of food, that plate tells him that everything is going to be okay.  If only he knew that food will let him down too, when he eats too much of it. And no everything is NOT going to be okay overeating like that. I think that's why it's hard for some to stop, it's a coping mechanism, and emotional crutch. And food makers take advantage of hurting people by putting in chemicals to make it addictive so people crave and buy more. It's as addictive as cigarettes but harder to fight because you can't just stop eating like how you can stop smoking or stop drinking all together. Imagine trying to stop being an alcoholic while still need to drink a little bit of alcohol each day to live.


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## debodun

It's a terrible thing to have a constant gnawing hunger that seems like it's going to eat you from the inside out and the only thing tat stops it is a big slice of chocolate cake, apple pie or a banana split.


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## Lawrence00

debodun said:


> It's a terrible thing to have a constant gnawing hunger that seems like it's going to eat you from the inside out and the only thing tat stops it is a big slice of chocolate cake, apple pie or a banana split.


I remember hold strong the addictive cravings for sugar were. Have been free of that for several years now.


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## debodun

How did you get over it?


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## JaniceM

Packerjohn said:


> Where I live and where I shop I have noticed that the "very large people" love to buy potato chips.


Something I've noticed for a long time:  packages are larger than in the past, and there's also the trend that what normally would've been individual-sized packages is now multiple-sized.  

For example, the little bags of chips in your post- if you want to buy one, it'd be "2 1/2 servings" size instead of one-serving size.  So it seems people are encouraged to buy larger packages "assuming" it's one serving, yet much more.


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## JaniceM

Packerjohn said:


> Sitting in front of the telly and eating is another fast ticket to the land of the "Big and Fat."


I still believe one of the main reasons none of my family members developed weight problems was there wasn't this modern-day emphasis on snacking in general, and not what I call "t.v. snacking" either.  

When I was a child, very rarely my father would go to the gas station and buy a half-gallon of ice cream for all of us..  and when I had little kids around once a month or so I'd get snacks together for a night of watching television... but in both cases they were rare occurrences, the idea of when you go to watch t.v. take a big bag of chips or box of cookies just never occurred to any of us.


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## debodun

I've heard of a study in which soup was served to normal weight and overweight people. Unknown to them, the bowls were constructed so they could be continuously filled from the bottom so the level remained constant. The normal weight people stopped eating when they had has enough. The overweight people continued to eat as long as there was something in the bowl.


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## JaniceM

debodun said:


> I've heard of a study in which soup was served to normal weight and overweight people. Unknown to them, the bowls were constructed so they could be continuously filled from the bottom so the level remained constant. The normal weight people stopped eating when they had has enough. The overweight people continued to eat as long as there was something in the bowl.


That's interesting..  it'd be useful if whomever conducted the study would follow up with it to determine the reason for the differences..


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## Nemo2

debodun said:


> The normal weight people stopped eating when they had has enough. The overweight people continued to eat as long as there was something in the bowl.


Dogs are similar......a neighbor in B.C. with two Labs said that if a 50lb bag of dog food burst open they'd eat until they 'exploded'  (other people with Labs have said virtually the same thing) -  whereas, on numerous occasions, I saw my Border Collie walk away from his bowl with one or two or more pieces left in it....he'd had enough, and he _knew_ he had enough.


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## Lawrence00

debodun said:


> How did you get over it?


So it's impossible to avoid all processed sugars. However you can work to make it a very small part of what goes in your mouth. 

The main thing for me was deciding that it was my enemy. Was like putting poison in my mouth. If I was a high school athlete or a long distance runner that dense concentration of calories would have value, but for everyone else, it's inappropriate to consume that stuff.

I don't purchase anything that has anything more than minimal percentages of sugar in it. Never order dessert when in social settings.

There are a massive amount of food choices available for us that don't contain that poison.

I also never purchase empty calorie foods like white pasta or bread.

When I first crossed the line towards freedom, I opened any of that stuff that was in the kitchen, and poured it into the garbage bin. Somewhat symbolic for me. Sort of a first strike against the beast.

Those overwhelming cravings have not been a part of my life for many years.

I don't tell anyone else what they should eat. This is how I gained my freedom.


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## StarSong

win231 said:


> Another reason:  There aren't many guarantees in life - with people, relationships, products.
> But there is one guarantee:  When you eat something you like, you are guaranteed to enjoy it.
> I've never heard anyone say, "I had some ice cream & I didn't enjoy it."


I never thought of it that way, Win, but think you have something there.  Comfort foods can be rewarding, steadfast companions. which is doubtless why they've gotten that name.


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## StarSong

Nemo2 said:


> Dogs are similar......a neighbor in B.C. with two Labs said that if a 50lb bag of dog food burst open they'd eat until they 'exploded'  (other people with Labs have said virtually the same thing) -  whereas, on numerous occasions, I saw my Border Collie walk away from his bowl with one or two or more pieces left in it....he'd had enough, and he _knew_ he had enough.


Agreed.  The dogs in my life fell into two categories: some finished in two snaps and would eat the bowl if they'd figured out how to ingest it, others simply weren't food motivated.  They only ate when hungry and left what they didn't want.


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## StarSong

debodun said:


> I've heard of a study in which soup was served to normal weight and overweight people. Unknown to them, the bowls were constructed so they could be continuously filled from the bottom so the level remained constant. The normal weight people stopped eating when they had has enough. The overweight people continued to eat as long as there was something in the bowl.


Surely the people in the study would have realized the bowl was refilling after eating for a few minutes, but I get your point.  Wonder if a lot of them came from "clean your plate or else" families.


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## Nemo2

StarSong said:


> Agreed.  The dogs in my life fell into two categories: some finished in two snaps and would eat the bowl if they'd figured out how to ingest it, others simply weren't food motivated.  They only ate when hungry and left what they didn't want.


Not that I've really given it a great deal of thought, but........Labs are bred for their disposition, and perhaps the gluttony is an unwanted but unstoppable 'ride along'?

Borders have always been working dogs....and in the early days, apparently, fed scraps by their less than prosperous owner/handlers.

Could it be that their appetite restraint is a combo of generations being accustomed to smaller rations combined with the knowledge that they'll have to get back to work soon and they don't want to be running around chasing sheep on a full stomach?


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## Jules

Same province, also two black labs.  Just like their owners, they were laid back and the food sat in the bowl until they wanted it.  Maybe it’s more about the style of the owners.


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## Nemo2

Jules said:


> Same province, also two black labs.  Just like their owners, they were laid back and the food sat in the bowl until they wanted it.  Maybe it’s more about the style of the owners.


You could be right, (the Lab owner on Salt Spring was active......had a kayak that he practiced rollovers in, etc, etc), and I extrapolated his comments with my own observations....as I noted I hadn't given it a great deal of thought.


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## win231

Also, one big mistake some parents make:  Using food as a reward.
_"Clean your room if you want dessert."
"Since you had a good report card, we'll go for ice cream."_
My mom always did that.  Food should never be a reward.


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## Been There

When someone enlists into the Marines, they have physical qualifications, including weight to height ratio. Before my retirement, enlistment papers would come across my desk. Normally, I only checked numbers to see if our enlistment centers were making their numbers. Besides our enlistees being rejected for having issues unknown to them, like Diabetes, Heart Disease, etc., Obesity was usually among the top 3 reasons why candidates were rejected. However, if they are within range of being in the standard category, they may be given a waiver and allowed to stay, if they get their weight in the standard category by the time basic training is over.

If someone is in excellent condition, but later allows themself to gain too much weight and is not acceptable to the standards, that Marine will be “volunteered” to join a program to get the person’s weight back under control. You should never see a fat NCO.


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## Pepper

Been There said:


> You should never see a fat NCO.


Or a fat cop, but I always do.  Can't be easy to chase someone.  I've always been shocked that is allowed.  Not safe.


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## JaniceM

Pepper said:


> Or a fat cop, but I always do.  Can't be easy to chase someone.  I've always been shocked that is allowed.  Not safe.


I definitely agree with you on that!!


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## perChance

In today's politically correct world, can you still deny someone employment based on physical characteristics?  In the past, someone could  be denied certain fields of employment because they wore glasses, or they were too short or not strong enough - it may not have been 'fair', but there were good reasons for those requirements.


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## debodun

Been There said:


> When someone enlists into the Marines, they have physical qualifications, including weight to height ratio.


Okay, now I know my problem. I just have to increase my height to 7'3".


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## StarSong

perChance said:


> In today's politically correct world,* can you still deny someone employment based on physical characteristics?*  In the past, someone could  be denied certain fields of employment because they wore glasses, or they were too short or not strong enough - it may not have been 'fair', but there were good reasons for those requirements.


Not unless those physical characteristics prevent them from fulfilling the job.  

I had a flight attendant friend back in the 70s who was obsessive about her weight because she could be grounded (or fired) if she gained a few pounds, got married or (heaven forbid) became pregnant. Until the late 60s, stewardesses were unable to continue flying after they hit the ripe old age of 32 because that was supposedly when they began losing their sex appeal. 

Not kidding.


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## StarSong

debodun said:


> Okay, now I know my problem. I just have to increase my height to 7'3".


As long as you're going to stretch out, you might want to grab a basketball and practice your 3 pointers...


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## perChance

StarSong said:


> Not unless those physical characteristics prevent them from fulfilling the job.
> 
> I had a flight attendant friend back in the 70s who was obsessive about her weight because she could be grounded (or fired) if she gained a few pounds, got married or (heaven forbid) became pregnant. Until the late 60s, stewardesses were unable to continue flying after they hit the ripe old age of 32 because that was supposedly when they began losing their sex appeal.
> 
> Not kidding.


I agree, some of the requirements were not valid, but some were, and are still valid today.


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## Been There

Pepper said:


> Or a fat cop, but I always do.  Can't be easy to chase someone.  I've always been shocked that is allowed.  Not safe.


In the military, once you become an Officer, usually above a Colonel, it’s more important to keep their BMI in line. If you want an example, look at General Miley. He’s a big man and probably a bit overweight, but I can see his BMI being within range. His height works to his advantage. Looking at this picture, I have to wonder if he could button that jacket.


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## JaniceM

StarSong said:


> *Not unless those physical characteristics prevent them from fulfilling the job. *
> 
> I had a flight attendant friend back in the 70s who was obsessive about her weight because she could be grounded (or fired) if she gained a few pounds, got married or (heaven forbid) became pregnant. Until the late 60s, stewardesses were unable to continue flying after they hit the ripe old age of 32 because that was supposedly when they began losing their sex appeal.
> 
> Not kidding.


Reminded me:  long ago, a relative's friend wanted to become a State Trooper..  there were both weight and height requirements..  while it took some doing for him to gain enough weight, he obviously couldn't do anything about the fact that he was a couple of inches shorter than the height requirement. 
He was one of the taller fellows in the area, so I wonder what the height requirement could have been. 

(As he was set on a law enforcement career, he joined a police department, rose up through the ranks, did quite well.)


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## Been There

I Googled how tall is General Milley and the answer is 5 ft. 8 ins. That’s b.s. I have been around this man and also stood near enough to him to compare my height with his. He goes about 5 ft 10 ins to 5 ft. 11 ins.


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