# America is Already Socialist.



## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)




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## Ameriscot (Oct 4, 2015)

Good video.  But some will _still_ say socialism is an evil word.  Sigh.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

Ameriscot said:


> Good video.  But some will _still_ say socialism is an evil word.  Sigh.



It'a a brainwashing thing...  People need to turn off FOX


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## Ameriscot (Oct 4, 2015)

Yes they do, but unfortunately most won't.


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## WhatInThe (Oct 4, 2015)

There are a lot of socialist programs, many of which need to be controlled much more than they are. Since many have their roots mostly stemming from dire times ie the depression their use has gone beyond 'dire times' or those in really really need it. And socialism is the proverbial foot in the door for much worse because it will take away choice for users and providers. Some say capitalism enslaves many literally & figuratively to profit while socialism could enslave many to the government, not the people but the government. There is a line. 

Was that an Al Jazeera video?


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

Some say what we are now trying to pull ourselves out of..Bushes recession.. rivals the great depression in every way.. and looking at our infrastructure, we could well use a New Deal.  Did you even watch the video WhatINThe?


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## WhatInThe (Oct 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Some say what we are now trying to pull ourselves out of..Bushes recession.. rivals the great depression in every way.. and looking at our infrastructure, we could well use a New Deal.  Did you even watch the video WhatINThe?



I did and even they mention the depression era programs. Now it wouldn't be a 'new' deal it would be a 'more' deal. There are a whole lot things that can be done but many FDR programs wouldn't work on their own the way they did last century.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

I think the point is that "Socialism" has become such a dirty word.. fueled by right wing media that many people do not even realize that much of our way of life... even things that are generally considered good and necessary.. like SS, Medicare, and even the Military are socialist programs. Not one single one of us could have made it without society as a whole banding together to provide things that we take for granted.. Roads... Utilities.. education systems come to mind.


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## AZ Jim (Oct 4, 2015)

I pay for schools I don't use, I pay for parks, lakes I no longer use, I pay for street lights but there's none on my street, servers in restaurants in many places share "pool" tips, so do bartenders, those are all socialized systems.  The dynamics and practice of socialism is practiced in every developed country of the world to some extent. Fox preys on weak minds.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

That's the part the Right hates... Private business and the fat cats long to get their hands on these programs so they can make a profit and provide inferior services.. Since they are big contributors to campaign funds, there is a push on the right to "Privatize" everything..  They are hell bent on privatizing our Postal service, and it doesn't even use tax money but is totally funded by postal fees.


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## AZ Jim (Oct 4, 2015)

Rightwing loonies say "I don't need no stinkin socialism, I got the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, a pantry full of food, I have dozens of guns and tons of ammo.  I'm good to go, take care of yourselves ya yeller Commies....


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## Underock1 (Oct 4, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> Rightwing loonies say "I don't need no stinkin socialism, I got the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, a pantry full of food, I have dozens of guns and tons of ammo.  I'm good to go, take care of yourselves ya yeller Commies....



Vert good, Jim. You should consider doing a one man Broadway show.


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## Underock1 (Oct 4, 2015)

What did she mean by that "when you get old and crotchety" crack? Everyone here is so sweet and cuddly. :grouphug:

I am not a big fan of labels, so I never really dug into the definition. Thanks for posting that. I did learn something.


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## BobF (Oct 4, 2015)

I posted this before but apparently some of you do not believe it to be true.

This  entire thread is a distorted idea about the US.   Saying that ever time we help someone else it is socialism and straight from the socialist themselves which means much of it is true.   Live in a city and you pay for utilities.   Not socialist at all as many if not most are private companies working for a profit so not socialist.   If you live in a city and don't like paying for roads, leave the city and go to the country and live on dirt roads.   Still plenty of them around the US.   Bush did not create a great depression and the reason for our failures was two Democrats in charge of our housing finance group, left the government after the crisis developed, Franks was one and the other name can be found.   They approved housing loans for people that just could not afford a loan and eventually those folks were failing and pulled our economy down.   No home building companies could handle that mess and neither could the US government.   We went into bankruptcy very quickly.   It is a national problem, neither Republican or Democrat as some like to point.  

Socialism is fine for some practices but for the US we just do not need more and these wimpy excuses for saying we are already socialist just do not work.   Far too much of what some call socialism is not such as it only takes an election to make many of these things go away.   Don't like your schools, vote no.   Don't like your health care, vote no.   We are not using government controlled industries.   Neither is England or any of their associates.   Which has made many things better over there and in France and other countries of Europe that have backed off their once solid socialist paths and gone into private lives for doing things.

Yes that girl brought up our military.   Glad we are having that.   It is not socialism at all as they rise and fall depending on how our government is feeling.   Even there we have to depend on private industries to make a military possible.   When I was in the service they did their own thing like feed the troops.   Now, for both my son and daughter, even in a conflict zone, their feeding was done through contracting with private companies to do that job.   My golly, private companies near conflict to feed the troops. 

No, the US so far is a long way from being socialist and hopefully they will stay that way for ever.
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YQiFLX/AIcOSv8ApYWf2plceSyZoxu4fMJ9H03e5J xtknHitHD tbiGQ7BV34hSs96QKZgezy8SCDLUxER/Vxq9Bt dStpJDvoufNj9Mz3Lu9Pr FabT7P7TCWFyi7Nc8HcBA/4R 5NWmUjG6nVcepx2plFmeEdt/mrayy2y0ltltKEJ2CUjAH0qyAALBcdznON3G5XvArK1XaIiiIoiKIv//Zprn.fm 
 
 * Socialism*  is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership  and/or social control of the means of production and co-operative  management of the economy, as well as a political theory and movement  that aims at the establishment of such a system.


*Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


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## WhatInThe (Oct 4, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> I pay for schools I don't use, I pay for parks, lakes I no longer use, I pay for street lights but there's none on my street, servers in restaurants in many places share "pool" tips, so do bartenders, those are all socialized systems.  The dynamics and practice of socialism is practiced in every developed country of the world to some extent. Fox preys on weak minds.



Socialism is PART of or can be used to described what goes on in many aspects of many societies. BUT it should be just part of the system, not THE system. And many things paid for by taxes are available to everyone. Some do, don't or can't take advantage and others by choice. But those taxes were from a capitalist system of pay, competition and/or free market albeit considered 'rigged' by some. Many roads & railroads were built to help support capitalist endeavors- in the beginning were they built for business. Public transportation  was an off shoot or derivation of the original purpose which is fine because part of the evolutionary process-new ideas.

Fox doesn't prey on weak minds. Nor does Msnbc. There are conservatives without Fox just as there are lefties without Msnbc.


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## Underock1 (Oct 4, 2015)

I went to You Tube and looked at the comments about this video. Right back to square one. Just one long unending dispute about the definition. That's why I hate labels. There is ten times more time spent on discussing definitions, than there is on discussing the actual ideas.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

What we have is a Democratic Socialist system..  We have capitalism with socialism combined.. which is the best sort of system.. Sadly too many think that we need a PURE Capitalist society... and if it comes to that... we are doomed.   The function of capitalism is to make a profit... and to make bigger and bigger profits.. eventually, capitalism will cannibalize itself.  When all the money is moved up to the top and there are no more people to provide the profits the system will die.   We need a nice healthy dose of socialism to ensure that never happens..


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## BobF (Oct 4, 2015)

There is darn little of what we do in the US that is Central Controlled by a central government.   Most productive items I can think of are local or individual inspired, driven, and controlled.   Our medical system is mostly controlled by individuals, (Doctors in practices or groups) or locally inspired and paid for and controlled (hospitals, medical emergency aide places, clinics for special treatments).   I really know of no centrally controlled medical places other than the VA types.   We do have a centrally controlled medical insurance guidance group in DC.   Our military itself is centrally controlled from DC.   Our tax collectors are centrally controlled from DC.   Some of our laws are centrally controlled from DC.    But to my view, most of the US is not centrally controlled as we do have states, county, city, ways of controlling their areas to the way they need or want.   All this is good for all of us as our needs are best known and fixed locally.

Most of our sharing, unions, police, and such are all locally supported and paid for.   Want more then vote for them.   Want less, don't vote for them or vote to get rid of them.   That is mostly local control.

I do agree that somethings do happen in a socialized way, but even if out of DC they can get removed as we do not have a socialized form of government.   As long as we still have the vote and a congress doing what they can to ensure the people are in charge, we can vote for or against anything the government attempts to control.   That is what is good about the US.   No jail or firing squads if we protest.   We are allowed to vote.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

Our system is Capitalistic Socialism Bob...  Like it or not.... that's what it is... There are areas that have to be handled by society and therefore government as they are far to big for individuals to handle alone..  Build your own roads... Set up your own electric grid.  train and operate your own military.. own and operate your own water purification plant..   It's a fact Bob... and because you have a very distorted and erroneous view of what socialism is.. you simply cannot believe it.


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## BobF (Oct 4, 2015)

Unfortunately your definition is only part of our full definition.

http://stephendpalmer.com/american-form-government/

[h=1]What is the American Form of Government?[/h]  				May 18, 2008

The most common — and grossly incorrect — answer to this question is that we are a democracy. 


The right — albeit simplistic — answer is that we are a republic.


 A more sophisticated answer is that we are a constitutional republic.


 The most thorough answer comes from selections of the _Federalist Papers_: an Extended Limited Commercial Federal Democratic Republic.

“Extended” refers to geography — never before in history has there been a republic that covered so much territory.


 “Limited” refers to the fact that the Constitution expressly defines what the government can and cannot do.


 “Commercial” refers to our national character.


 The Founders said that there were three main national characters:  martial, religious, and commercial. Rome had a martial character, as  does China. Ancient Israel had a religious character.


 Since religious and martial-character nations tend toward tyranny, the Founders chose commercial.
 By “federal,” Madison meant as much power as possible was preserved  with the People, and that the federal government only existed for  specific and limited purposes.


 The idea of federalism is that the closer one gets to the People the  more power there is, while the closer one gets to the federal  government, the less power one finds.


 “Democratic” refers to the idea that we are a social democracy, although not a governmental democracy.


Social democracy is the concept that intrinsic in our culture is the  understanding that all men and women are created equal, that no  individual is better than another, and that everyone has equal  opportunity to succeed.


 (As an interesting side note, Oliver DeMille  gives an updated version of Madison’s lengthy label. He says that we  are now an “Internationalist, Sometimes Constitutional (Except Where  Prohibited By Law), Extended (Globally), Increasingly Commercial,  National, Representative/Virtual/Popular Democracy, With a Technocratic  Supremacist Court.” But that’s a conversation for another day…)


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## BobF (Oct 4, 2015)

And here is another description of our type of government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VogzExP3qhI


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

Our form of government is a Democratic Republic or Constitutional Republic...  Our ECONOMY Is Capitalistic Socialist....   Pay attention..


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## BobF (Oct 4, 2015)

Don't you ever read or watch anything that says you are only partially correct?


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

BobF said:


> Don't you ever read or watch anything that says you are only partially correct?




No bob...  I simply scan your posts looking for anything that might be different from what you have posted nine million times.. Usually there is nothing new to read.. so why bother..  It's either about the debt... or about how horrible President Obama is...


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## tnthomas (Oct 4, 2015)

BobF said:


> I posted this before but apparently some of you do not believe it to be true.
> 
> This  entire thread is a distorted idea about the US.   Saying that ever time we help someone else it is socialism and straight from the socialist themselves which means much of it is true.   Live in a city and you pay for utilities.   Not socialist at all as many if not most are private companies working for a profit so not socialist.   If you live in a city and don't like paying for roads, leave the city and go to the country and live on dirt roads.   Still plenty of them around the US.   Bush did not create a great depression and the reason for our failures was two Democrats in charge of our housing finance group, left the government after the crisis developed, Franks was one and the other name can be found.   They approved housing loans for people that just could not afford a loan and eventually those folks were failing and pulled our economy down.   No home building companies could handle that mess and neither could the US government.   We went into bankruptcy very quickly.   It is a national problem, neither Republican or Democrat as some like to point.
> 
> ...



Well why would anyone *not* believe material that you had posted?        I agree with the red highlighted statement above.


You want  real socialism?  --->  socialistparty-usa.      ---->Early socialist thinker:Charles Fourier


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> Well why would anyone *not* believe material that you had posted?        I agree with the red highlighted statement above.
> 
> 
> You want  real socialism?  --->  socialistparty-usa.      ---->Early socialist thinker:Charles Fourier



Doesn't sound so bad at all....   In fact it sounds pretty good... I could get on board with that.


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## WhatInThe (Oct 4, 2015)

I think many, rightfully so associate government mandates or the government option only as socialism. Health care is the perfect example. Like or not there are still choices, maybe not a lot or cheap but government provided health care only would be socialized medicine for the patient and providers who would become defacto if not direct government employees. Both loose options and choices. Any function or job done by government only is socialism for the taxpayer and employee. Capitalism needs choice and option for competition to work.  

People who think more socialism would help their employment for example don't realize in a socialized employment structure you have civil service so right off the bat the 'poor' test takers will cry foul and the 'good' test takers will get jobs simply because of their testing. Instead of competing against an entire building of employees for a promotion it would then be the entire county, state or country. Besides testing there would be minimum requirements of schooling, certifications etc. After having witnessed internal politics of multiple unions seniority does not prevail when it's decided who and when gets required or desired schools & certifications. I've seen union jobs when 5-10 year employees were bypassed for those with much less time because of union and/or management politics. Setting aside ruthless do think every position in Russia or China is filled fairly or is cut and dry?  Politics goes on the private sector as well, at least one can go to an entirely different company, in a socialized system you're stuck with the same employer for like ever.

It all comes back to choice, a government option only is not choice or options.


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## BobF (Oct 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Our form of government is a Democratic Republic or Constitutional Republic...  Our ECONOMY Is Capitalistic Socialist....   Pay attention..



You have that right to think as you do.   

I also have the right to believe how our founders set up this country and how the historians like to describe it.   That was the printed article I posted.   The other link was to a film that covers how countries of the world have gone from royals to dictators, and other ways and how the US was set up to be a peoples style of government.   Worth a look.   Neither link is of my own posting, which you seem to hate, so worth a read and a watch.   

The US is something that has held together for over 200 years and hopefully it will go on hundreds more as a peoples government Republic and not as a dangerous and fallible Democracy.

Now for your ending comment that we use a capitalistic socialist economy, pretty hard to believe as socialist means central control of the economy.   Just not possible as most of our country is free run and not controlled by the government.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

Bob... I don't even care what you think...  It's just not important...


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## BobF (Oct 4, 2015)

OK, just hope someday you can see just how wrong socialism is for running out government.

Any time you post socialism I will consider it an invite to me to post any counter points I can think of.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

Think whatever you want... but you are wrong... lol!


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## BobF (Oct 4, 2015)

QuickSilver, I am not wrong and I suggest again that you learn what the founders wanted to develop and how well those intentions have been working for over 200 years.   It might help you to see why socialism has only limited usage in the US.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 4, 2015)

Have a nice life.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 4, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> What we have is a Democratic Socialist system..  We have capitalism with socialism combined.. which is the best sort of system.. Sadly too many think that we need a PURE Capitalist society... and if it comes to that... we are doomed.   The function of capitalism is to make a profit... and to make bigger and bigger profits.. eventually, capitalism will cannibalize itself.  When all the money is moved up to the top and there are no more people to provide the profits the system will die.   We need a nice healthy dose of socialism to ensure that never happens..



A perspective article worth a read, Social Democracy is 100% American.  More here. 


_Well, think again_. Social democracy is 100 percent American. We may be latecomers to recognizing a universal right to health care (indeed, we are not quite there yet). But we were first in creating a universal right to public education, in endowing ourselves with ownership of national parks, and, for that matter, in conferring voting rights on males without property and abolishing religious tests for holding national office.







Thomas Paine by Laurent Dabos, National Portrait Gallery (Wikicommons)

But there’s even more to the story. It was the American Revolution’s patriot and pamphleteer, Thomas Paine — a hero today to folks left and right, including tea partiers — who launched the social-democratic tradition in the 1790s. In his pamphlets,_Rights of Man_ and _Agrarian Justice_, Paine outlined plans for combating poverty that would become what we today call Social Security.

As Paine put it in the latter work, since God has provided the earth and the land upon it as a collective endowment for humanity, those who have come to possess the land as private property owe the_ dispossessed_ an annual rent for it. 

Specifically, Paine delineated a limited redistribution of income by way of a tax on landed wealth and property. The funds collected were to provide both grants for young people to get started in life and pensions for the elderly.






Ladies Tailors Strike

_Think again_. The social-democratic tradition was nurtured by Americans both immigrant and native-born – by the so-called “sewer socialist” German Americans who helped to build the Midwest and, inspired by the likes of Eugene Debs and Victor Berger, radically improved urban life by winning battles for municipal ownership of public utilities. 

By the Jewish and Italian workers who toiled and suffered in the sweatshops of New York and Chicago but then, led by David Dubinsky and Sidney Hillman, created great labor unions such as the International Ladies Garment Workers Union and the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America.

 By the farmers and laborers who rallied to the grand encampments on the prairies organized by populists and socialists across the southwest to hear how, working together in alliances, they could break the grip of Wall Street and create a Cooperative Commonwealth.

 By African-Americans who came north in the Great Migration to build new lives for themselves and, led by figures such as the socialist, labor leader and civil rights activist A. Philip Randolph, energized the civil rights movement in the 1930s.

_And think again._ Think about the greatest president of the 20th century, Franklin Roosevelt, whose grand, social-democratic New Deal initiatives – from the CCC, WPA and Rural Electrification Administration, to Social Security and the National Labor Relations Act — not only rescued the nation from the Great Depression, but also reduced inequality and poverty and helped ready the United States to win the second World War and become the strongest and most prosperous nation on earth.
ghting for the Four Freedoms

Moreover, those we celebrate as the Greatest Generation, the men and women who confronted the Great Depression and went on to defeat fascism, fought for the decidedly social-democratic Four Freedoms – freedom of speech and religion, freedom from want and fear – and the chance of realizing them at war’s end.

Polls conducted in 1943 showed that 94 percent of Americans endorsed old-age pensions; 84 percent, job insurance; 83 percent, universal national health insurance; and 79 percent, aid for students — leading FDR in his 1944 State of the Union message to propose a Second Bill of Rights that would guarantee those very things to all Americans.

 All of which would be blocked by a conservative coalition of pro-corporate Republicans and white supremacist southern Democrats. And yet, with the aid of the otherwise conservative American Legion, FDR did secure one of the greatest social-democratic programs in American history: the G.I. Bill that enabled 12,000,000 returning veterans to progressively transform themselves and the nation for the better.


Nor did that generation of veterans give up their social-democratic aspirations. On reaching middle age in the 1960s, they enacted civil rights, voting rights, Medicare and Medicaid; established protections for the environment, workers and consumers; _and_ dramatically expanded educational opportunities, especially in public higher education.


We ourselves honor America’s social-democratic history with two great monuments on the National Mall – not just the FDR Memorial, but also the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial. Yes, King was a democratic socialist. 

Drawing on the New Deal experience, embracing the American tradition of Christian socialism and peaceful activism, and believing, like so many of his generation, that Americans could harness the powers of democratic government to enhance freedom and equality, he campaigned for both racial justice and the rights of working people and the poor.


Senator McCaskill’s attack on Senator Sanders appears to have been launched on behalf of the Clinton campaign. Its rationale rests on the belief that, in the light of the past 40 years of conservative ascendancy and liberal retreat, her words were simple common sense: _Aren’t we, as the talking heads tell us, a center-right nation?

_
Well, no, we are emphatically not. And it is regrettable that by swallowing this myth, the present leadership of the Democratic Party, embodied in the Democratic National Committee has, in election after election, shrunk from some of the party’s best traditions in order to keep up in the race for campaign cash, even to the extent of marginalizing and openly scorning what is described as its “left wing.”


Indeed, when America’s purpose and promise have been in jeopardy we acted radically, progressively, and, yes, as social democrats. 

Hillary Clinton herself seemed to recognize the power of that history and its legacy by launching her new presidential campaign at New York City’s Four Freedoms Park on Roosevelt Island. Though she never did actually pronounce the words of FDR’s Four Freedoms, her speech revealed some awareness of a reviving — dare we say it? — social-democratic spirit? Whether simply tactical or genuine on her part is an important question that remains to be answered.


Bernie Sanders may never appear at Four Freedoms Park. But he sounds like FDR, not simply because you can practically hear him saying of the one percent what FDR did — “I welcome their hatred” — but all the more because of what he wants to do: tax the rich, create a single-payer national health care system, make public higher education free to all qualified students, create jobs by refurbishing the nation’s public infrastructure, and address the environment and climate change.


But even more critically, like FDR he doesn’t say he wants to fight for us. He seeks to encourage the fight in us: “It is up to us to launch the most heroic of all struggles: a political revolution.” If that is “extreme,” then Democrats like McCaskill are not just forgetting their history, but trying to suppress it.


That Sanders, given his background, is garnering huge crowds who shout his name with an enthusiasm reminiscent of the heyday of the People’s Party in the 1890s, radiates a special glow. Americans may once again be remembering who they are and what they need to do to recapture a government now in thrall to the Money Power. And that ain’t extreme. It’s fundamentally American.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 5, 2015)

Excellent find SB...


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## BobF (Oct 5, 2015)

SeeBreeze, interesting article.   Just read it, not sure if it really covers what my points were about the founders intentions and directions.   Probably not a problem as long as they stay in the hands of the people.   And also, these actions are from the people and not a government demanding, they are not socialism by definition, as I have been saying all along.   The way we are living is not socialism and we do not want that to be in the US. 

  The first example of public schools is not socialism as it is running prior or now.   The idea is good but it takes taxes to do that and the people choose to do so and not because of government demands.   Each city and each state have their own ideas of what makes a good decent school system for their areas.   Keep the people involved in all these actions and socialism does not happen as socialism requires a strong central government to force those ideas and the people have no choices to change or resist.   We are not into that sort of idea and hope we never do go there.

Being considerate of each other and the needs is a good social behavior but not socialism at all.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 5, 2015)

Medicare and Social Security are probably the biggest Socialist programs we have..  They are paid for by the FICA tax from taken from every Americans' paycheck... The money collected now from working people is used to pay the medical bills and SS checks of current retirees... and they are completely administered by the Government.. and VERY efficiently.   Medicare operates with only a 3% overhead for administrative costs while private insurance can have as high as 20%.   This is a truly successful component of our Capitalist/Socialist form of economy.  I haven't met a Senior yet who doesn't love their Medicare and Social Security.... even if they are true Socialist programs.


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## BobF (Oct 5, 2015)

I keep posting that SS and Medicare are separate accounts but again you keep saying they are the same.   So here are the two funds descriptions that say they are separate and restricted to just their described uses.    Only the income taxes of SS benefits get to go to Medicare.

The operation of these programs is by the government but in the case of SS we pay for it ourselves.   

So it is not a socialist type of operation for our paying it.   It can be called socialist if you count the government started it.   But these and a few other items that seem to be socialized does in no way make the US a socialist country at all.  And that is the concern of many, having the US go the way of a true socialist country.   

As these programs are now set up they can be changed at any time, and SS likely will in a few more years.   SS does not cover everyone so again it is not purely socialist.   Non working wives, like mine, will not have much money from her few short working years and the residual of mine after I die.    Better than nothing.   We should expect no better as we need the incentive to go about and work when we are young and build our own savings for older years.

 …...................................



https://www.medicare.gov/about-us/how-medicare-is-funded/medicare-funding.html 



 How is Medicare funded?


*Medicare Trust Funds*

 Medicare is paid for through 2 trust fund accounts held by the U.S. Treasury. These funds can only be used for Medicare.
*Hospital Insurance (HI) Trust Fund*

*How is it funded?*



Payroll taxes paid by most     employees, employers, and people who are self-employed 
Other sources, like income taxes paid on Social     Security benefits, interest earned on the trust fund     investments, and Medicare Part A premiums from people who     aren't eligible for premium-free Part A 
 …...................................


http://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/WhatAreTheTrust.htm


*What are the Trust Funds?*

 The Social Security trust funds are financial accounts in the U.S. Treasury. There are two separate Social Security trust funds, the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund pays retirement and survivors benefits, and the Disability Insurance (DI) Trust Fund pays disability benefits.  
 Social Security taxes and other income are deposited in these accounts, and Social Security benefits are paid from them. The only purposes for which these trust funds can be used are to pay benefits and program administrative costs.
 The Social Security trust funds hold money not needed in the current year to pay benefits and administrative costs and, by law, invest it in special Treasury bonds that are guaranteed by the U.S. Government. A market rate of interest is paid to the trust funds on the bonds they hold, and when those bonds reach maturity or are needed to pay benefits, the Treasury redeems them.
*How is Social Security Financed?*

 Social Security is financed through a dedicated payroll tax. Employers and employees each pay 6.2 percent of wages up to the taxable maximum of $118,500 (in 2015), while the self-employed pay 12.4 percent.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 5, 2015)

You are totally missing the point bob.....  the point is that BOTH Medicare and Social Security are SOCIALIST programs in the purest form...  Not which fund the money comes out of.  AND BOTH according to your post are funded through the dedicated payroll tax.... which are contributed to by all working Americans... Couldn't be more SOCIALIST than that huh Bob??

*How is Social Security Financed?

* Social Security is financed through a dedicated payroll tax. Employers and employees each pay 6.2 percent of wages up to the taxable maximum of $118,500 (in 2015), while the self-employed pay 12.4 percent. 

*Medicare Trust Funds

* Medicare is paid for through 2 trust fund accounts held by the U.S. Treasury. These funds can only be used for Medicare.
*Hospital Insurance (HI) Trust Fund*

*How is it funded?*




Payroll taxes paid by most     employees, employers, and people who are self-employed
Other sources, like income taxes paid on Social     Security benefits, interest earned on the trust fund     investments, and Medicare Part A premiums from people who     aren't eligible for premium-free Part A


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2015)

More here. 


And according to the most recent Gallup numbers, fear-mongering against his socialist label has a high likelihood of working. That being said, I find it slightly comical that Republicans (and some conservative Democrats) scoff at the idea of socialism.

 The truth is, this country has been partially driven by socialism for decades. In fact, most Americans absolutely love socialism. Yes, Republicans, I’m talking about you as well. You see, all you conservatives reading this – you’re all fans of socialism whether you like it or not. In fact, let me take a moment to address Republicans who will undoubtedly freak the hell out at the sheer mention of the word “socialism” if it’s brought up next fall. 

Oh, I know, you all don’t agree with me that you’re fans of socialism, right? You’re not a socialist – you’re a “freedom-loving capitalist that wouldn’t dare support evil socialism. Praise be to Jesus!” *By the way, Jesus Christ was probably the ultimate socialist.

  So answer me this, have you ever: Driven on public roads? Attended public schools? Eaten food that didn’t make you sick thanks to safety standards? Deposited money into a bank because you knew even in the event of a robbery your funds are insured? Visited a public library? Collected Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid? 

Called 9/11 in the unfortunate need for police, fire or medical assistance? Received mail from the United States Postal Service? Bragged about and saluted our military? Taken out a student loan or grant? Had your garbage collected by city services? 

Used any form of public transportation? Because if you’ve utilized anything I just listed (as well as numerous other things in this country), and you’re glad they existed when you needed them – you’re supporting socialism.

 Everything I just listed above is, in one way or another, paid for and/or subsidized by the government via taxes. Do you know how our military became the most powerful human-made killing machine in Earth’s 4 billion year history? Because we socialized the hell out of it. 

 Yes, any conservative whose livelihood and medical care is largely based on Social Security and Medicare is quite literally living on socialism. In fact, without that socialism many of you might be homeless or dead. The truth is, this nation is a based upon a form of socialist capitalism.

 Our nation was stronger economically 50+ years ago when we were more socialist than what we are today. Back when taxes were higher, unions were stronger, education was better and income inequality wasn’t really an issue. It wasn’t until the bullshit notion of trickle-down economics (which is just an elaborate con predicated on the redistribution of wealth from 98 percent of Americans to the top 2 percent) was thrust upon us that everything started spiraling out of control.

 For those Republicans still doubting that you’re all socialists, I have a simple way to prove it: Go find any conservative you know who’s currently receiving Social Security and/or Medicare then mention you’re in favor of eliminating or cutting their benefits – see how that goes for you.

 I’ll go ahead and guess that their reaction won’t be positive. Though that’s a bit of a trick question, because any true “hater of socialism” wouldn’t accept either government benefit.

 So, if Bernie Sanders happens to win the Democratic nomination, and leading up to the general election your party predictably starts the incessant fear-mongering about the “terrifying socialist,” just remember one thing: If you’ve benefitted from anything I listed above in this article, you’re probably a big fan of socialism.  Even if you refuse to admit it.


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## BobF (Oct 5, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> You are totally missing the point bob.....  the point is that BOTH Medicare and Social Security are SOCIALIST programs in the purest form...  Not which fund the money comes out of.  AND BOTH according to your post are funded through the dedicated payroll tax.... which are contributed to by all working Americans... Couldn't be more SOCIALIST than that huh Bob??
> 
> *How is Social Security Financed?
> 
> ...



*which are contributed to by all working Americans 
*
Not true and I tried to make an example of that in my post.   But for sure you do not know what the definition for socialism really is.

so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
_noun_
noun: *socialism*


a  political and economic theory of social organization that advocates  that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned  or regulated by the community as a whole.

synonyms:leftism, welfarism; Moreradicalism, progressivism, social democracy; 
communism, Marxism, labor movement 
"my appreciation for certain aspects of socialism does not mean I'm a socialist"




policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.

synonyms:leftism, welfarism; Moreradicalism, progressivism, social democracy; 
communism, Marxism, labor movement 
"my appreciation for certain aspects of socialism does not mean I'm a socialist"





 


*(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.
* 
........................

You will never change, neither will I.   Your ideas are really quite scary to many folks in the US.   Fortunately most of what we have is stuff voted in, even SS and Medicare, and therefore free of the mandatory part of socialism.   They can be changed or removed by our congress if enough people want that to happen.   Probably not for SS but for Medicare there are some possible moves coming as the real hurt from the latest stuff won't come for a couple more years like 2017 or 2018.   So far we only have a portion of the population involved in our newest medical system.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 5, 2015)

Bob...   I know you don' t want to believe this BUT the funds that supply money to both SS and Medicare come from the FICA or federal payroll tax which is paid by ALL working Americans.   Money for Medicare also comes from income taxes paid on SS as well as Medicare part A premiums from people not entitled to Part A..  This is from you OWN examples...  So what are you arguing about?    When a program that is funded by EVERYONE.. is paid out to people eligible for that program.. It's SOCIALISM.. and Medicare and SS fit that description perfectly.   It appears you have such an unnatural abhorrence to the word that you refuse to accept you are totally wrong and that YOU are benefiting from two Socialist programs..  You love your SS and Medicare don't you COMERADE...  ((((snicker)))


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## BobF (Oct 5, 2015)

Like I said you will never change.   I posted the definition of socialism, but you refuse to read it or don't care.   The US is not running like a socialist government does.   They impose while we actually do have votes.   A big difference and something we should be concerned about.  

SS is only collected from the working folks, others are not tapped for SS funds.   I don't know where you keep saying it is all paying for SS, and by my posts from the SS department it is stated about workers contributing.

You and others are apparently in love with the idea that socialism is the better way to go so you keep pushing for the US to go that way.   All this nonsense about public transportation, highways, schools, and on and on, are socialist is nonsense.   We vote that stuff in and we can vote that stuff out.   It is not mandated by our government in the way a socialist government would do.

So on and on we go.   You be your own private socialist and I will continue to be a real US citizen with the right to vote for or against these items we want or like to have.   That is not a socialist way.   It is more of tht of a responsible citizen and not a socialist looking for a federal handout.


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## AZ Jim (Oct 5, 2015)

No one votes to contribute to SS.  It is NOT voluntary.  It is a mandatory program.  If you draw a paycheck you contribute, like it or lump it.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 5, 2015)

*75 Ways That Socialism Has Improved America*

( from 2011) More here. 


1. The Military/Defense - The United States military is the largest and most funded socialist program in the world.  It operates thanks to our taxpayer dollars and protects the country as a whole. From the richest citizens to the homeless who sleep under the bridge. We are all protected by our military whether we pay taxes or not. This is complete socialism.

2. Highways/Roads - Those roads and highways you drive on every single day are completely taxpayer funded. Your tax dollars are used to maintain, expand, and preserve our highways and roads for every one's use. President Eisenhower was inspired by Germany's autobahn and implemented the idea right here in America. That's right, a republican president created our taxpayer funded, national highway system. This was a different time, before the republican party came down with a vicious case of rabies that never went away.

3. Public Libraries - Yes. That place where you go to check out books from conservative authors telling you how horrible socialism is, is in fact socialism. Libraries are taxpayer funded. You pay a few bucks to get a library card and you can read books for free for the rest of your life.

4. Police - Ever had a situation where you had to call the police? Then you have used a taxpayer funded socialist program. Anyone can call the police whether they pay taxes or not. They are there to protect and serve the community, not individuals. This is complete socialism on a state level, but still socialism all the same. Would you rather have to swipe your credit card before the police will help you?

5. Fire Dept. - Hopefully you have never had a fire in your home. But if you have, you probably called your local taxpayer-funded fire department to put the fire out. Like police, this is state socialism. You tax dollars are used to rescue your entire community in case of a fire. It use to be set up where you would pay a fee every month to the fire dept. for their service. If you didn't pay, they let your house burn down. Sadly, a man from Tennessee had this exact situation happen to him in 2011 because he didn't pay his $75.00 fee. I guess that small town in Tennessee would rather let people's houses burn down that resort to evil socialism. So don't take for granted the fact that you have a 24/7 fire dept. to put out your burning home thanks to socialism.

6. Postal Service - Like having mail delivered directly to your front door and paying next to nothing to send mail anywhere you want? Well it's all made possible by socialism.

7. Student Loans and Grants - Did you go to College? If you did, you family might not have been rich enough to pay your way through. So you got your education anyway through student loans and grants from the federal government at taxpayer expense. Of course you have to pay back the loans, but if not the government, did you know anyone else who was going to lend you tens of thousands of dollars? Probably not. So the taxpayers lent you the money and you paid it back with slight interest. The government grants you accepted were gifts from the taxpayer and the federal government that you did not have to pay back. Socialism got you through school.

8. Bridges - Along with our highways, our government used your taxpayer dollars to build bridges. This allows the public to travel across rivers without having to sail or swim.

9. Garbage Collection - Like having your garbage collected once a week instead of having to drive it to the landfill yourself? Thank socialism.

10. Public Landfills - Taxpayer dollars are used to have places to dump all of our garbage that is collected by taxpayer funded garbage men.

11. War - That's right! War would not be possible without socialism. Your tax dollars are used to fight wars for your country. This is Big Government at it's biggest. Private companies don't attack other countries, at least not yet. Government is the only entity in America that can defend us from foreign enemies and our tax dollars are used for every second of it. Socialism has brought down Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussein, and Bin Laden. War may very well be the most socialist thing on this list.

12. Farm Subsidies - Our government uses taxpayer funds to pay farmers and businesses to provide their income and keep them growing food for the public.

13. CIA - The Central Intelligence Agency is vital to America's security. The CIA is completely taxpayer funded to protect the public from enemies.

14. FBI - The Federal bureau of investigations is a taxpayer funded government agency.

15. Congressional Health Care - As Republicans in congress warn us of the evils of government-run health care, most of them are covered by taxpayer-funded government-run health care. You literally pay for their health care while they tell you that paying for your neighbors health care through a public option or single-payer system is socialism. They are 100% correct, it is socialism. They're just not telling you that they like their socialist health care, they just don't think you should have it. They are afraid you might like it better than the private insurance you have now that funds their campaigns and gives them money to push what is best for them and not for you. Members of congress are free to opt out of their evil government health care, but most of them don't because deep down, they like socialism too.

16. Polio Vaccine - In the 1950's polio ravaged the United States. Until Dr. Jonas Salk invented a cure, finally ridding America of this terrible disease. Dr. Salk could have sold his vaccine in the free market and made millions and millions of dollars. Instead he gave it to the federal government to begin eradicating polio. He said that he made plenty of money as a scientist and felt it was too important to try and profit from or create a business around.

17. EPA - Republicans hate this taxpayer-funded government program because they have the nerve to tell corporations that they may have to follow environmental rules ad regulations for the greater good of the earth and the people who live on it. But if you don't like breathing mercury, drinking dirty water, and breathing in chemicals, you should like this example of socialism working for the people.

18. Social Security - You pay a tax to help ensure that our grandparents and senior citizens of America have money to live off of when they are retired or too elderly to work. I love hearing rich people bitch about this one because the truth is that they do not pay a social security tax, like most payroll taxes. This little piece of socialism helps prevent our senior citizens from sinking into poverty and starving to death.

19. Museums - Many museums are privately owned by organizations and groups, but many are also taxpayer-funded state, national, and federal museums.

20. Public Schools - Can't afford to send your children to an expensive private school? Thanks to socialism and government, you child can still get an education. Public education has been under attack for decades in this country by the radical right because public schools don't teach Christianity to your children and it enables people like Barack Obama to work hard, gain scholarships, and eventually become President of the United States.

21. Jail/Prison System - Many murders and criminals are behind bars right now and not out on the streets because of our taxpayer-funded, federal and state run jails and prisons. Taxpayer money is collected and used to help protect all of society from murders, molesters, rapist, etc. I know there's a lot of disagreement and controversy about how to handle our prison system, but I think we can all agree that serial killers should not be freed into society. There are also many private prisons in the United States. However, they have a higher escape rate than their socialist counterpart. Besides, don't you see the bad incentives in having a private prison system that profits from having people in prison? Since a business's  top goal is to make more money than the year before, the only feasible agenda would be to get everyone in prison.

22. Corporate/Business Subsidies - This is the type of socialism that is acceptable in the Republican party. You tax dollars are given to big corporations to do things they should be doing anyway out of morals and ethics. Like not sending jobs overseas and hiring people. Wouldn't you like a nice big check just for not breaking the law? To be fair though, many businesses do earn their subsidies by advancing green technology and practice, donating to charity, helping communities, etc. They aren't all bad. People just get mad when big billionaire oil companies get billions of their taxpayer dollars while they're paying $4 at the pump. For the corporations that don't earn their subsidies other than donating to their very own political party, it's merely welfare. Though however you look at it, it is socialism.

23. Veteran's (VA) Health Care - Our soldiers bravely go to foreign countries and risk their lives at the request of their government and the American people. For those who survive, we as a country feel committed and obligated to ensure that they have everything they need for the rest of their lives for their service to us in which we could never fully repay. So we the taxpayers fund their health care in a government-run single-payer system for veterans. Many soldiers return with mental and/or physical health issues that would cost them thousands in a private health care plan. Socialism funds the military, the overall war, and also takes care of our troops when they return home.

24. Public Parks - Like going to the park on a sunny day? Just being able to walk right in, or at the worse pay a small fee? This is once again the work of socialism. If it were private, it wouldn't be a park, it would be someones back yard. That small or non-existent fee will turn into a $15 fee faster than you can say "No Trespassing".

25. All Elected Government Officials - From the Supreme Court, to the President of the United States and all the way down to the County Dog Catcher, taxpayers pay their salary and provide the funding for them to do their job. We pay for every aspect of their job. So in a sense, I guess you could say our whole country is run on socialism.

26. Food Stamps - Republicans fill with bitter contempt knowing that our government at the expense of the taxpayer is giving poor people money to buy food they couldn't otherwise afford. This, like welfare, is what the right thinks socialism is all about, along with mass murder. However, just like corporate welfare, welfare is socialism. I'll just end this one with a quick story. I have been down and out in periods of my life and sought assistance via food stamps. Even though I was what anyone would consider poor, I was not poor enough to get food stamps. Which means people who do get them, must really, really need them. As far as my personal experience, they weren't thrown around like candy the way the right would have you believe.

27. Sewer System - Do you like having a sewer system to remove waste and prevent pollution and disease from seeping into our environment? Thank the taxpayers of America and the socialist system it operates in.

28. Medicare - Medicare is one of the most liked socialist programs in America. Most of us don't mind paying taxes to provide our senior citizens with health care and hope the next generation will do the same for us. If you don't believe me, just look at almost any poll. Most seniors would not be able to afford private health care. So this form of socialism is a life saver for this nation's grandparents and senior citizens.

29. Court System - Whether it's the murder trial of the century or a case in a small claims court, the taxpayers of America fully fund our courts and legal process. You may pay for your own lawyer, but the courtroom, judge, and jury is paid for through socialist means.

30. Bird Flu Vaccine - You don't have bird flu right now and probably aren't worried about it because our federal government used taxpayer funds to pump vaccines all over America.

31. G.I. Bill - The G.I. bill allows veterans to pursue an education by using taxpayer dollars to help them pay for most of their schooling. It also helps them with loans, savings, and unemployment benefits.

32. Hoover Dam - Remember when our country use to build things? Our government built the Hoover Dam using taxpayer funds. It is now a vital source of power for the west coast.

33. State/City Zoos - American families have been going to the zoo for generations. A place where kids and adults can have fun seeing creatures and animals from all over the world and learn at the same time. Many zoos are ran by the state and/or city, using taxpayer funds to operate and even bring the animals to the zoo.

34. IRS - I know, the IRS is about as popular and well liked in America as a hemorrhoid, but think about it. The IRS is the reason that we have anything. The IRS collects taxpayer funds for the federal government. The government then dispenses these funds to our military, states, and social programs. If there is no one collecting taxes, no one will pay them. If no one pays taxes, our country shuts down. Without money to operate, nothing operates. This may sound like a good thing to some radical republicans, but for those of us with sense, we know this means anarchy in the USA. The IRS gets a bad rap because if you don't pay your taxes or owe them money, they can be ruthless. Like everything else, the IRS is not perfect, but without them we literally have no country or no means to run it.

35. Free Lunch Program - Some children are living in poverty by no fault of their own. I'm not saying it is even their parents fault, but you surely cannot blame a child for the situation they are born into. In most if not all states, there are programs where children who live in poor households can receive school lunch for free. The taxpayers of the state pay for this. Sounds like socialism to me, and also the moral and Christian thing to do.

36. The Pentagon - Our defense system in America is a socialist system from top to bottom. We as taxpayers fund the pentagon completely.

37. Medicaid - Our government uses taxpayer funds to provide health care for low-income people. Republicans, the compassionate Christians that they are, absolutely hate this program. What they fail to understand is that when people can't afford to pay their outrageous medical bills, they don't. This bill does not disappear. The loss that the insurance company, doctor's office, or hospital takes gets passed down to everyone else. So covering people and giving them a low-income option reduces costs for them and everyone else. This is the main argument behind a health care mandate. It's not to force you to buy health care out of cruelty. If everyone is covered, costs drop for everyone. If you have no compassion for the uninsured, you can at least understand the rational in a selfish sense.

38. FDA - The Food and Drug Administration is far from perfect. It is infested with corporate corruption and they have been wrong many, many times. Countless times they have approved things that they later have to apologize for and have banned things that would have helped people. However, they have also stopped many harmful foods and products from being sold to the public and protect us everyday from poisons being disguised as products. While not perfect, they are needed to prevent harmful food and drugs from being sold to you and you family. Without them, corporations can send whatever they want to your supermarkets and drug stores without any testing or evaluation. I don't mind my taxes going towards a middle man to inspect the safety of the products we are being sold everyday.

39. Health Care for 9/11 Rescue Workers - After beating back GOP obstruction, Democrats finally passed a bill last year to allow government to help 9/11 rescue worker's with their health care after many came down with horrible lung diseases from the toxins they breathed in rescuing people from smoldering buildings. These brave citizens risked their lives and health to help complete strangers. They deserve more, but covering their health care is a good start.

40. Swine Flu Vaccine -  Do you have swine flu right now? Then thank government and the socialist structure.

41. Disability Insurance (SSDI) - For those who are disabled and cannot work, our government provides an income for them via taxpayer dollars as opposed to the other option of letting them starve to death.

42. Town/State Run Beaches - Like going to the beach? Like it when the beach is clean and safe? Like having lifeguards on staff in case of an emergency? Then once again, thank the taxpayers and the socialist structure that makes it all possible.

43. Corporate Bailouts/Welfare - The whole point of this post is to prove that we ALL use, benefit from, and like socialism. This example is a form of socialism that the republicans not only like, but fight tooth and nail for. They don't like it when socialism is used for working/poor people, but when it's for millionaires and their corporate donors, socialism becomes as American as apple pie. The middle/working class who are the majority of taxpayers pay for welfare for corporations and people who have more money than all of us combined. When our government bails out a bank or gives a subsidy to a billion dollar corporation, you are paying for it.

44. State Construction - Ever see those construction workers in your town fixing potholes, erecting buildings, repaving highways and roads, and fixing things all over town? They themselves and the work they do is taxpayer-funded state socialism.

45. Unemployment Insurance - All your working life, you pay payroll taxes. Some of these taxes go toward a program that temporarily provides for people who lost their jobs until they can find another one.   You pay for others, others pay for you. Especially these days, you never know when you might lose your job. You may need temporary assistance until you get back on your feet. The government recognizes this. UI also keeps the economy moving in times of recession because people still have some money in their pockets to buy goods and promote demand.

46. City/Metro Buses - If you lack transportation, you can catch a city bus. Taxpayer funds and the fee you pay to take the bus make it possible for millions of people to go to work.47. WIC - WIC is a federally funded program to assist women, infants, and children. WIC helps low-income families by providing funding for nutrition, education, and health care for children.

48.  State Snow Removal - Even though sometimes it may take them longer than you like to get to your street, do you like having snow plow service to clear our roads and highways in the winter? This is a state socialist taxpayer-funded service.

49. PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) - PBS operates on donations and government funding. The provide non-partisan news and information to the public. They are the home of Sesame Street, Masterpiece Theater, and The Antiques Roadshow. Surveys show that they are literally the most trusted name in news. I wonder how Fox feels about that?

50. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) - The CDC helps promote and enact the health and safety of the public along with helping to prevent and control illness and disease. The CDC is a government program that operates on taxpayer funding.

51. Welfare - Is there anything the republicans hate more? Of course I'm talking about the welfare that goes to poor people. Corporate welfare is not only accepted in the republican Kabul, but it's mandatory that we give our tax dollars to billionaires and not question the logic of it. Though if you look at it realistically and not through the red scare glasses in which the right sees the world, welfare helps the economy. As I've said many times, when poor people have money in their pocket, they buy things made and sold by companies. This creates a demand. To keep up with demand, businesses must hire to keep up. If you yanked everyone who is on welfare off of it tomorrow, the economy would take a blow and lose jobs due to the down tick in consumer demand because we just took what little money they had away.

52. Public Street Lighting - Like being able to see at night when you walk or drive? Thank Socialism.

53. FEMA - If Disaster strikes, FEMA is there to help pick up the pieces. As a part of homeland security and an agency of the federal government, they use taxpayer dollars to help cities, states, and towns recover and rebuild. I don't know to many private companies that could assist in disaster relief and ask nothing in return. Thank God for socialism.

54. Public Defenders - Ever been in trouble and couldn't afford a lawyer? Well the taxpayers and the government make sure you still get representation.

55. S-CHIP (State Children's Health Insurance Program) - S-CHIP is a program that matches funds to states for health insurance for children in families that cannot afford insurance but make too much to qualify for Medicaid. Your tax dollars go towards covering uninsured children, is that so wrong?

56. Amtrak - Amtrak transports tens of millions of passengers a year in 46 states and three Canadian Providences. It is owned by the federal government and your tax dollars are used to fund it. All aboard!!

57. NPR - National Public Radio operates on private and federal funding along with public donations. NPR has been one of the most trusted news sources in America for over 40 years.

58. The Department of Homeland Security - Created after the terrorist attacks on 9/11, this heavily federally funded department of the U.S. government helps protect us from future terrorist attacks. This is the third largest department within the United States government.

59. OSHA - Do you have a safe and healthy workplace that provides training, outreach, education, and assistance? Thank OSHA! Brought to you by the taxpayers of America and socialism.

60. State and National Monuments - The Lincoln Memorial. Mount Rushmore. The D.C. National Mall. All brought to you and maintained with your tax dollars. Socialism is patriotic?

61. The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) - The USDA enforces regulations on the farming, agriculture, and food industries to ensure food safety, natural resources, and hunger worldwide and in the United States. Your tax dollars are used to help keep what you are eating safe and even feed those who are not eating.

62. Government Scholarships - if you work hard in school and show true potential, our government will give you a scholarship towards college so you can advance your education. Your tax dollars have been used to send future doctors, lawyers, scientists, and even presidents of the United States to college.

63. Department of Health and Human Service - The overall goal of HHS is to promote, implement, and ensure the health of the American people. Your tax dollars are used to do this. Government looking out for the well being of it's people, imagine that!

64. Census Bureau  - Every ten years, our government collects data about our people and economy, to better serve and represent us. From the forms that are sent to your home for you to fill out and send back in and to the census worker who shows up and kindly asks you to fill out the form if you don't send it in, all taxpayer funded socialism. The information collected is used to better understand the economic situation and population in your area. Not to enslave you in a FEMA camp.

65. Department of Energy - This taxpayer funded cabinet of the federal government oversees nuclear weapons, nuclear reactors, energy conservation, radioactive waste disposal, and energy production. To those of you who care about our environment and would rather not witness a nuclear holocaust might consider this money well spent.

66. Customs and Border Protection  - the CBP is the largest law enforcement agency in America. This is big government that republicans actually do like because they don't like Mexicans immigrating to our country like our ancestors did. However, this taxpayer funded, socialist agency of the federal government regulates trade, imports, and immigration.

67. Department of Education - This cabinet of the federal government is actually the smallest. They administer and oversee federal assistance to education. They also collect data and enforce federal laws and regulations involving education. Even though the right thinks that this department is indoctrinating your children, they actually have no control over curriculum or standards.

68. Secret Service - Your tax dollars are used to provide highly-trained, skilled professional bodyguards to protect the President of the United States.

69. Peace Corps - The Peace Corps is a volunteer program run by the government that helps people outside of the US to understand our culture as well as helping us learn about other cultures. However they are more well known for their work with economic and social development in less-fortunate countries. Sounds very Christian for being a socialist program, huh?

70. Department of Justice - The DOJ is responsible for enforcing the law. Socialism keeps our civilization intact.

71. National Weather Service - Like knowing when a storm, tornado, earthquake, or snow is coming? Socialism makes this possible and available to everyone.

72. The White House - Our taxpayer dollars through a socialist means pays for the house that the president and his family live in during a presidents time in office.

73. Government - Like it or not, our country would not be a country without a government. Every single day, government on state and local levels serve us in ways we simply take for granted. Government as an entity operates and functions on our tax dollars through a socialist structured funding system. From the military down to the county dog catcher, socialism turns the wheels that make our society function.

74. Law - Laws and rules make our democracy possible. Remove these laws and you have sheer anarchy. Laws do not appear out of thin air. To have law, you need a government. You need elected lawmakers to make the laws and a government to implement and enforce them. Socialism is responsible for every law in this country. Without our government and lawmakers which exist thanks to socialism, there would be no laws. So the laws themselves, are enforced and implemented thanks to socialism.

75. Civilization - As an American citizen, you enjoy freedoms that many in other countries do not. Like anything else in this world, our government is not perfect, but you should be thankful everyday that your country has a government that feels an obligation to serve the people and protect their rights and freedoms. This is completely possible because of government, taxes, and socialism. 

Do you think the private sector would do a better job of governing our country? Do you think corporations would enact laws to help protect and serve you and your family or them and their profits? The reason you can read this blog and the reason I can write it whether you agree with it or not is because of the freedoms we have here in America enforced and protected through socialist means. Our entire civilization depends on us being a people united. 

Socialism is a glue that binds us together and makes possible the things that we could not accomplish as individuals working against each other.


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## BobF (Oct 5, 2015)

AZ Jim said:


> No one votes to contribute to SS.  It is NOT voluntary.  It is a mandatory program.  If you draw a paycheck you contribute, like it or lump it.



Yes Jim, you are right.  It is not voluntary as it is today.   But with an elected government, not some socialized type like in Europe, they get told how to live.   

We do have the ability to vote and that means we may decide to have a different way of taking care of elder folks and change what we have to something else.   That can not be done in real socialized government.   Dictators, crooked royals, demands, but no voters.   Iraq  had voters but with strong incentives.   If they did not vote with the government they might get beaten or killed.   Nice country there in Iraq.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 5, 2015)

Again with the Dictators...  BOB.... Socialism is NOT communism... you really need to study the difference...


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## Ameriscot (Oct 5, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Again with the Dictators...  BOB.... Socialism is NOT communism... you really need to study the difference...



If he can't understand something as simple as the geography of the UK, he'll never understand the difference between socialism and communism.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 5, 2015)

Apparently not... I'm done trying to help him..


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## BobF (Oct 5, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Again with the Dictators...  BOB.... Socialism is NOT communism... you really need to study the difference...



You should have looked at my postings yesterday.


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## tnthomas (Oct 5, 2015)

> America is Already Socialist



I didn't really think so at the beginning of this thread, but several well put posts have swayed my opinion.    I have always thought that a rich country(like the U.S) can and should try to improve the lives of all it's citizens.

I like paved roads!  ;-)


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2015)

tnthomas said:


> I didn't really think so at the beginning of this thread, but several well put posts have swayed my opinion.    I have always thought that a rich country(like the U.S) can and should try to improve the lives of all it's citizens.
> 
> I like paved roads!  ;-)



That's the point tnthomas..  in order for a society to function it has to have socialist components.. While our business model is primarily Capitalist, our  society HAS to band together to accomplish things that improve society as a whole.  It is impossible for an individual.. or even a State to provide some necessities as they are far to big..  Our highway system.. our power grid.. our military.. and our social safety nets.. (which especially on this forum are deeply appreciated lol)


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## BobF (Oct 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> That's the point tnthomas..  in order for a society to function it has to have socialist components.. While our business model is primarily Capitalist, our  society HAS to band together to accomplish things that improve society as a whole.  It is impossible for an individual.. or even a State to provide some necessities as they are far to big..  Our highway system.. our power grid.. our military.. and our social safety nets.. (which especially on this forum are deeply appreciated lol)



You really need to open a dictionary to read the definitions of socialism.   We do not have a mandated type of government at all.   And socialism is the last step before we get into communism.   Those are facts. 

  We have a special kind of government and it is a Republic, not one of the lower forms where a few can demand of the masses.    In a Republic we retain the right to vote and our votes can change all this so called socialism some of you folks think is mandatory.   It is not from a federal mandated type of government which is what the dictionaries say is socialism.   

How some have gotten so mixed up with words and practices is hard to understand.   Socialism is not what we have.   Paved highways come from townships, cities, states, prior to the interstates that are directed by federal but built by private companies.   Socialism requires the means of production is also federal run.   Some bunch of misinformed folks on here.

Being care takers of others has many reasons and certainly not restricted to that of socialism.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2015)

Again BOB... you are mistaken the FORM of government... ie.. Republic, Democracy, Communism...  with the type of economy... Capitalist, Capitalist/socialism (which ours is) and Socialism..     Your are locked into a mindset that for some reason you refuse to consider is wrong..  no matter how many of us try to explain


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## mitchezz (Oct 6, 2015)

Bob.........in the simplest language.....Socialism and Democracy can and do co exist. Google Social Democracy. A Socialist is not a Communist. Communism is a one party system, Democracy has more than one party. One of those parties may be a Socialist party or a Conservative party or indeed a Communist party.  Independent candidates can also put themselves up for selection. The people i.e the Democracy decide who they wish to elect.


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## BobF (Oct 6, 2015)

Again, the US is a Republic, nothing else is proper to say.   We are a Republic.   And that stands above Democracy as our Republic allows minorities to also be part of the governing group where in Democracies the control goes to the majority only.

Walk away from that socialism name and agree that in the US Republic we do make sure we take care of others and share the expenses as much as possible.   It is not a federal mandate as socialism requires but a vote of the people that makes it happen.

All those claims that our schools, highways, whatever are socialism is poor wording to say the least.  They are not and are not federal mandated either.   So they do not fall into the name of socialism.   Don't take my word for it, type in a dictionary for 'socialism' and read what comes up.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2015)

It's hopeless....


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> Bob.........in the simplest language.....Socialism and Democracy can and do co exist. Google Social Democracy. A Socialist is not a Communist. Communism is a one party system, Democracy has more than one party. One of those parties may be a Socialist party or a Conservative party or indeed a Communist party.  Independent candidates can also put themselves up for selection. The people i.e the Democracy decide who they wish to elect.



you are correct....Socialism is a SOCIAL an ECONOMIC system... It is not a form of government... Bob is getting them confused..


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## Ameriscot (Oct 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> It's hopeless....





It's a total waste of time trying to explain anything to Bob.  Don't hurt yourself.


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## mitchezz (Oct 6, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> you are correct....Socialism is a SOCIAL an ECONOMIC system... It is not a form of government... Bob is getting them confused..



I really can't break it down any further. My son is Autistic so I am used to breaking tasks and ideas into very simple steps but I have to confess I am stumped.


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## BobF (Oct 6, 2015)

So the dictionaries are all wrong too then.   Type in socialism and see what comes up.


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## BobF (Oct 6, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> Bob.........in the simplest language.....Socialism and Democracy can and do co exist. Google Social Democracy. A Socialist is not a Communist. Communism is a one party system, Democracy has more than one party. One of those parties may be a Socialist party or a Conservative party or indeed a Communist party.  Independent candidates can also put themselves up for selection. The people i.e the Democracy decide who they wish to elect.



Very good.   Social Democracy is declared to be a US item.   And is sure is not socialism as far too many are saying.   Socialism is the wrong word to us to describe this Social Democracy.   That the US is looking to use.   But then too, look to the goal at the end of this article.    And we really do not want socialism in any form in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

*Social democracy* is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving welfare state provisions, collective bargaining arrangements, regulation of the economy in the general interest, redistribution of income and wealth, and a commitment to representative democracy.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] Social democracy aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater egalitarian, democratic and solidaristic outcomes.[SUP][4][/SUP]  "Social democracy" is often used in this manner to refer to the social  policies prominent in Western and Northern Europe - particularly in  reference to the Nordic countries - during the latter half of the 20th  century.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP]  Alternatively, social democracy is defined as a political ideology that  advocates a peaceful, evolutionary transition of society from  capitalism to socialism using established political processes.[SUP][7][/SUP]


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## AZ Jim (Oct 6, 2015)

> But then too, look to the goal a the end of this article.    And *we* really do not want socialism in any form in the US.



Speak for yourself only Bob!


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## BobF (Oct 6, 2015)

Jim, we in my post refers to the entire population of the US.   If you know of any that really want to be socialist, as the dictionary says socialism is, then they are really not interested in keeping the US strong and free.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2015)

*Bob no one said that our Government was Socialist....just a whole lot of programs....some even you like and depend on.*


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## BobF (Oct 6, 2015)

And hopefully the US Republic will never try to go socialist and support socialism as our way of life, no matter how small it may be.   We do, and should continue, try to take care of others problems and weaknesses just by using our kindness and generosity for others.   We do not need socialism in the US.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 6, 2015)

BobF said:


> And hopefully the US Republic will never try to go socialist and support socialism as our way of life, no matter how small it may be.   We do, and should continue, try to take care of others problems and weaknesses just by using our kindness and generosity for others.   We do not need socialism in the US.




Too late Bob.... we already have it.... and LOTS of it.  lol!!


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## BobF (Oct 6, 2015)

Not if you would once read the dictionaries and try to believe them, we do not use socialism in the US.   Just some stubborn ones that don't believe in dictionaries and their descriptions of fact.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 10, 2015)

*Shifting Views of Socialism in America*

Bernie Sanders and the shifting views of socialism in America.  More here. 


If you ask an older person if they are familiar with Bernie Sanders, chances are they may not know who he is. However, if you ask a younger voter, chances are they will not only know who he is, but they are supporting him.

 By the way, Bernie Sanders is a self-described Democratic Socialist, and Republicans have been more than happy to scream about socialism to their uninformed base – all while racing each other to the political bottom. 

Unlike the typically older and conservative voters who support candidates like Donald Trump or Ben Carson, younger Americans are less likely to tremble in fear at the very mention of socialism. They understand the difference between Democratic Socialism and Marxist Socialism. 

Democratic Socialism takes the power back from the elite, and puts it back into the hands of the people. It puts our government to work for us, by providing basic services such as healthcare for all, and affordable education. 

These are not radical ideas, and when Americans are polled, they seem to favor Democratic Socialist policies. In 2012, Barack Obama proved that having the older white male vote in America is no longer necessary to be elected president. We embarked on this new chapter of diverse demographics deciding the presidency in 2012, and there is no reason to think this will change in 2016. 

While the majority of Sanders supporters seem to be youthful and idealistic, they are not the only ones embracing his ideas. The right wing media echo chamber has done such a masterful job of attaching a stigma to the word socialism, even attempting to imply that his brand of socialism is equivalent to Nazi Germany. To many uninformed Americans, especially the Fox “News” viewers, socialism means a totalitarian government.

 They think it’s something resembling Soviet Russia, when in fact, Democratic Socialism is much different than Marxist Socialism. Since the Cold War, the term has become something of a dirty word in U.S. politics: a phrase used not just as a description of a political and economic system, but as an insult used by conservatives in an attempt to tarnish the reputation of their left-leaning rivals.

 Despite his self-described socialist views, Sanders is experiencing an unexpected wave of popularity, and is drawing some of the largest, most electric crowds of any presidential candidate so far. (Source) Younger Americans are not afraid of socialism. When polled, forty-nine percent of adults age 18-29 had a favorable view of socialism versus forty-three percent who had a negative view. 

While the numbers are close, this is significant in two ways. First, this poll was taken four years ago, and there are many more people who have reached voting age. Secondly, this same poll was taken 20 months prior, and at that time, only forty-three percent of young Americans favored socialism. In twenty months, the favorable percentage increased by six percent. That is quite a large jump, especially when you consider that most people outside of Vermont had never heard of Bernie Sanders at that time. It isn’t hard to see why younger Americans seem to embrace an alternative to unregulated capitalism. 

Take someone my age (thirty-two) for example. Ronald Reagan, one of the worst presidents in recent history, was three years into office when I was born. Unions were already beginning to feel the wrath of the relentless attacks at the hands of those pulling the strings for Reagan’s war on the middle class. My generation grew up experiencing a massive shift in wealth from the middle class to the top one percent. 

My generation did not get to enjoy an America where good unionized jobs with benefits and pensions were the rule and not the exception. We did not have the ability to come straight out of high school and into a manufacturing job that would support a family, and allow an individual to build a stable, middle class family. We have not experienced the so-called benefits of free market capitalism that we were taught about growing up. In fact, we have experienced the opposite. 

We have experienced growing income and wealth inequality. We have experienced a shrinking middle class, where good paying jobs have been outsourced by the millions, only to be replaced with eight dollar an hour service jobs.

 America has experienced the devastation that a healthcare system causes when its sole purpose is to make a profit from the suffering of others, and a society that places a higher value on locking up young people instead of educating them.

 We have watched the richest nation on earth become a leader among developed nations in childhood poverty. We’ve seen a decade plus of endless war for the sake of profit, and we have seen America abandon its own. This has all happened as a direct result of unregulated, anything-goes capitalism.

 More than anyone else, our generation understands that there must be a better way. Enter Bernie Sanders. Here is a seventy-three year old man with unruly hair who goes on and on about income inequality, healthcare being a right and not a privilege, and how education should be affordable for all. Where did these ideas come from?

 Bernie Sanders stands for the things that are important to the majority of young Americans. They are tired of the status quo, the establishment. They are tired of being an afterthought. They do not care about petty labels like socialist. They are looking for a leader who represents the people’s interest. 

Bernie Sanders is that leader and his rise in recent polls show that. He is popular because he has introduced a better way of doing things to a generation who either withdrew from politics out of frustration, or never considered getting involved until now. Even if Bernie Sanders doesn’t win, his ideas are being discussed by a generation that never realized there was an alternative until now, and that’s a great thing.


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## Warrigal (Oct 10, 2015)

I'll drink to all that. I like a society that is a balance of free enterprise and socialism.
Freedom coupled with social responsibility. It's a great system.


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## QuickSilver (Oct 10, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> I'll drink to all that. I like a society that is a balance of free enterprise and socialism.
> Freedom coupled with social responsibility. It's a great system.



I agree... that is the BEST system...  Free enterprise... capitalism and profit tempered with social programs taking care of our poor and elderly.. as well as things serving the common good... infrastructure... energy...education...etc..


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## BobF (Oct 10, 2015)

Well, after all that rant of far left thinking, I ask this.    If it is so great why is Europe doing so poorly compared to the US.   For one example.   Average housing in Europe is half the average housing in the US, or Canada, or Australia.   Some countries around this world are even smaller than Europe but I use Europe as they are closer to the way us folks live and work.   I watch some TV shows about housing here in the US and other countries.   It makes me wonder how some of those other countries manage to call their ways better.   Kitchen being a hot plate on the patio or porch.   Bath rooms being a tub with barely enough room to get by and the same with the toilet and a small stand with a wash basin.   To me that is not a better way to live.   

Having a government with debts out of control is not a good situation either.   And the US has that situation.    No matter what kind of ism you may want to call it, lack of control of our debts is a poor way to run a country.   Time to back off to a controlled financial schedule or expect to be declared broke like the Greeks were last year.   That sure irritated them and it will surely irritate a lot of spend free folks here in the US.


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 19, 2015)

What a historian wished Bernie Sanders would have said about being a socialist. More here. 


*What One Historian Wishes Bernie Sanders Said About Being a Socialist*

October 14, 2015 | _Updated October 15, 2015_
by Bernard Weisberger





[*=right]1.4K




_Last night’s first gotcha question from Anderson Cooper about whether the American people would ever elect a socialist to office was one that Bernie Sanders was no doubt expecting. Progressive historian and BillMoyers.com contributor Bernard Weisberger didn’t think his answer was altogether bad (watch above), but he took time today to write out the response he wishes the other Bernie had given. He also included a response to Hillary Clinton’s later statement about how “Denmark wasn’t the United States.”_
Well, first of all, the last I heard Vermont was still an American state and the people of Burlington elected me as mayor four times and were satisfied because I gave them an honest and efficient administration. Then the people of the state as a whole sent me back to the House of Representatives several times, and next to the Senate. They responded to substance, not labels.

 I think we’re still smart enough to do that.[As for our not being Denmark, I am not trying to turn the United States into Denmark or any other country in the world. But if we look and see that Denmark has a health care system that treats its people better than ours at lower cost, just as an example, are we forbidden to try it because it hasn’t got a “Made in America” label on it? We’re a lot smarter than that — and saying otherwise is a slander on our people.]

I consider myself a social democrat, yes. And for me, what social democracy simply means is a system that leaves room for small enterprises and individual liberty but also recognizes the fact that we’re all part of a larger community, and what hurts any one group of us eventually hurts us all. So there are some things we don’t leave to the so-called free market. 

We don’t want people going hungry or suffering from sickness or at the bottom of the ladder in educational attainments because they can’t afford them — especially when in economic downturns millions of us lose jobs through no fault of our own. So we tax ourselves to put money into a common kitty to make sure those things don’t happen and we’re all the better off for it. 

In other words we agree to bear each others’ burdens and make others’ suffering our concern, bound in “brotherly affection.” A far cry from the virtues of unrestricted and unregulated winner-take-all competition.

And do you know that that’s a basic American idea? What I just said comes straight from a sermon preached by minister John Winthrop to the band of fellow Puritans landing in Massachusetts in 1630. 

And it’s an idea picked up again and again throughout our history, from early state laws providing for public health and safety and punishing fraud, right on through to the Progressive period and the New Deal when we provided security for our elders, strengthened the bargaining power of workers, created public works programs to stimulate employment and spending, opened space for small business by breaking trusts, and reduced inequality to reasonable levels — without touching the basics of capitalism. That’s the American way and always has been, and I could name a long list of American heroes who embraced it if there were time. So let’s move past labels and start addressing the crises we face now.


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## Susie (Oct 21, 2015)

mitchezz said:


> Bob.........in the simplest language.....Socialism and Democracy can and do co exist. Google Social Democracy. A Socialist is not a Communist. Communism is a one party system, Democracy has more than one party. One of those parties may be a Socialist party or a Conservative party or indeed a Communist party.  Independent candidates can also put themselves up for selection. The people i.e the Democracy decide who they wish to elect.


So lifting millions out of poverty and starvation, as China managed to do, would not be considered "socialistic"?


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## Susie (Oct 21, 2015)

#72
Why is a large house better than a smallish, compact one (or an apartment)?
A large house for one or two persons is such a waste(why not use those many huge places to house the millions of very needy homeless?)
Suppose this idea would be branded as socialistic, or "heaven forbid" communistic!


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## Manatee (Oct 21, 2015)

The Soviets proved beyond any doubt that big central government control doesn't work.

I worked for a British company that was taken over by the leftist government.  It was a disaster, they made dumb decisions for the wrong reasons.  The Thatcher government saved it by privatizing it.


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## Bee (Oct 21, 2015)

Manatee said:


> The Soviets proved beyond any doubt that big central government control doesn't work.
> 
> I worked for a British company that was taken over by the leftist government.  It was a disaster, they made dumb decisions for the wrong reasons.  _*The Thatcher government saved it by privatizing it.*_




The very mention of that woman's name turns my stomach.:aargh:


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## Pam (Oct 21, 2015)

Mine too, Bee!!


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## Shalimar (Oct 22, 2015)

Ah yes, the politics of greed, wrapped up in the illusion of future prosperity, and policed by fear. Ick!


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## Ameriscot (Oct 22, 2015)

Pam said:


> Mine too, Bee!!



Mine three!


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