# Bipolar Disorder



## QuickSilver (Jun 9, 2015)

We had discussed mental illness and Schizophrenia in detail... but another mental disorder that has interested me is Bipolar disorder.. particularly the manic phase.., as I have several close friends as well as a close family member suffering from this.     Here are the hallmarks. 


Box 1: DSM IV-TR Criteria for a Manic Episode
A distinct period of abnormally and persistently elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, lasting throughout at least _1 week_ (or any duration if hospitalization is necessary).

During the period of mood disturbance, three (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted (four if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:

Inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
Decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
More talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
Flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
Distractibility (attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
Increase in goal-directed activity (either socially, at work or school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
Excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., unrestrained buying sprees, ******
indiscretions, or foolish business investments)


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## applecruncher (Jun 9, 2015)

Interesting.  I’m hardly qualified to diagnose, but those traits match a former co-worker who (I learned later) was bi-polar.

Inability to focus for very long (very difficult to talk to……often interrupted a work-related discussion with comments about shoes or asking where we were going to lunch)
Talk, talk, talk…..interrupting with irrelevant “look at me” comments
Frequent ****** innuendo
Only slept for a few hours each night
Delusions of grandeur

Sometimes can be just laziness and rudeness, though.  But boss and the rest of us had to constantly try to get the person back on track.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 9, 2015)

My bipolar friend holds a PHD in Social Work... and has been fired from every job she has ever held.   She also tried self medicating with alcohol.. which many do.  She still is not all that compliant with her meds, but had toned down her behavior drastically.


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## AprilT (Jun 9, 2015)

I happen to have a friend  and a family member with the disorder, it's not always clear cut in some cases, unfortunately today, there are a lot of armchair psychiatrist who see symptoms and cases everywhere and want to put these type of labels on people they encounter for various reasons.  It's a very serious illness, many of us have all types of illnesses and while labeling others miss seeing our own crazy often times or maybe sometimes we're just trying to bounce things off.  But indeed all types of psych conditions are very interesting.

My above comments are not in reference to other postings, just a general assessment.


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## applecruncher (Jun 9, 2015)

Yeah, and as I’m sure you know, when a person is fired they often will not be told the real reason. It’s a shame to put so much money and effort/work into getting a lot of degrees, then not be able to cut it in the work place. A pattern of firings/being “let go” from various jobs means something else is going on. Employers just don’t want to deal with the person anymore………..they’ll cover their butts to avoid a lawsuit, then hire someone who is a “better fit” OR eliminate/restructure the position.

Employee Assistance Programs can sometimes help, but ...again, many employers just don't want to deal with the person.  They just want them gone.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 9, 2015)

That's very true... however, in my friend's case... she has a bonafide diagnosis from an MD, so I have not diagnosed her on my own.


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## jujube (Jun 9, 2015)

I have a cousin who's bipolar.  You never know which one of him is going to be there at any time; neither one is pleasant to be around.


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## Cookie (Jun 9, 2015)

Bipolar is very common, I have a friend with the disorder, successfully treated with medication. When she was in her 'manic' phase she was usually gung ho about a certain thing she is into, like her new obsession with tea or perfume or a certain activity, e.g. running.  It was never been life destroying to begin with, and she has been lucky.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 9, 2015)

Unfortunately the medications are uncomfortable to most..  Lithium.. which is a heavy metal and can destroy kidneys.. or Depakote which can cause sedation and weight gain.  I'm not familiar if newer more palatable medication has been successful in treating the disorder.


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## Mrs. Robinson (Jun 9, 2015)

My dad was bi-polar. That list of the manic phase that you posted was him to a T. He wasn`t diagnosed until he was 55 years old and was put on Lithium. He was a different person and it was so nice for all of us-especially my mom (all but one of us kids was married and out of the house by then) But,he only took the med for a few weeks,then said it made him feel sick(was probably telling the truth) and flushed the meds. My mom divorced him after 38 years of marriage-she couldn`t deal with it anymore. She married him when he was 18 and says he was always a "wild and crazy" guy,but when he was in his early 20s she saw the mood swings really setting in. His mother was also bi-polar-as were two of his brothers and one of his sisters.


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## Mrs. Robinson (Jun 9, 2015)

One of my foster girls has also been diagnosed as bi-polar but I really don`t see it. She does have mood swings-gets a little manic but not like my dad did. And no depression that I see at all-her "opposite" is ugly anger. Has not been on meds since she was 10 when she refused to continue taking them.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 9, 2015)

That's the problem with so many of the psych meds... they are not fun to be on because of their side effects.   Manics suffer from something different... they actually ENJOY their mania..  It's empowering..  they can conquer the world... they feel fantastic...  until that is they cycle down and crash.. Why would you want to take a med for something that you really,  really like?  So there's that added dimension to Bipolar.


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## Shirley (Jun 9, 2015)

My daughter had bipolar disorder. As with other things, it dangerous to generalize. She would go for months or even years and be level. Then, for some reason, the high or low would kick in. When the highs kicked in, she was on top of the world. When the lows would kick in, she would go inside her house, lock the door and not let anybody in but me. She would sit and cry and there was nothing I could do but sit and hold her. Every med had such bad side effects, she couldn't take them. Finally, just before her fatal accident, there was one that was working. At least I know she was happy that last few months.


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## ndynt (Jun 9, 2015)

My son-in-law is bi-polar.  Brilliant academically and technically.  But, irrational.  His meds make him drowsy.  I do not know how my daughter has dealt with him for 28 years.  He is a "crazy maker", even medicated.  A control freak...never wrong...always trying to force others to follow his manic ideations.  Right now it is about his daughter getting married.  Trying to force us to take sides.  His irrational thinking is very hard to deal with.


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## SifuPhil (Jun 9, 2015)

AprilT said:


> I happen to have a friend  and a family member with the disorder, it's not always clear cut in some cases, unfortunately today, there are a lot of armchair psychiatrist who see symptoms and cases everywhere and want to put these type of labels on people they encounter for various reasons ...



What's even scarier is when these labels are stuck on children who are only guilty of being children.

Most of us - I would even venture to say ALL of us - could sit down with the DSM and find at least a few afflictions whose symptoms seem to match our own. But what is truly disturbing is that even credentialed psychologists / psychiatrists have a dismal record when it comes to diagnosis and, in order to fill their quotas, merely listen with one ear to their patient's litany of woes while promptly reaching for their Rx pad. It's far quicker and easier to medicate than to employ more traditional therapeutic techniques these days, so that's what they run with.

Ever wonder why the old term "manic/depressive" was changed to "bipolar disorder"?


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## AprilT (Jun 9, 2015)

SifuPhil said:


> What's even scarier is when these labels are stuck on children who are only guilty of being children.
> 
> Most of us - I would even venture to say ALL of us - could sit down with the DSM and find at least a few afflictions whose symptoms seem to match our own. But what is truly disturbing is that even credentialed psychologists / psychiatrists have a dismal record when it comes to diagnosis and, in order to fill their quotas, merely listen with one ear to their patient's litany of woes while promptly reaching for their Rx pad. It's far quicker and easier to medicate than to employ more traditional therapeutic techniques these days, so that's what they run with.
> 
> Ever wonder why the old term "manic/depressive" was changed to "bipolar disorder"?



I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I come across quite a number of people who haven't any business in the field.  People I know who run programs and write, scripts I've been sitting and conversing with and they have said some very flippant things about their patients, no personal details, but still.  I'm sure their venting, but sometimes it's TMI and they should know better especially when out in public.  There are of course terrific people in the profession and some local counties cut so much funding it does hinder and cause some milling effects.


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## Shalimar (Jun 9, 2015)

As a therapist often dealing with clients suffering from severe PTSD, I have encountered many examples of misdiagnosis. Many of the symptoms of PTSD can mirror those of Bipolar Disorder. Even knowing their patient's traumatic history, some health care providers stick the BPD label on trauma victims, usually with disastrous results.


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## Ameriscot (Jun 10, 2015)

My second ex was bipolar and would not take medication until after we split. He seemed to be a very laid back guy when I met him but he became a total nightmare.


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## Shalimar (Jun 10, 2015)

Annie, I sympathise. Untreated, BPD can manifest itself as  Doctor Jekyll Mr. Hyde  scenario from Hell. This is an illness of rage and arrogance if untreated, as well as other difficult symptoms, disastrous for mentally ill person and those around him or her.


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## Robert59 (May 2, 2017)

I have a girlfriend that has Bi-polar. She ok when on her medicine but when she not she can be real pain in the ass to deal with. Her own children and sister has disowned her because of her not taking her medicine.


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## WheatenLover (May 2, 2017)

"Tracy Kidder’s “A Truck Full of Money,” which traces English’s rocket  rise during the Internet’s founding era while dealing for years with  undiagnosed bipolar disease that sometimes made him soar and sometimes  brought him low..." 
https://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/bo...ssful-start/yEFDjSBq0GdGAc31JEdtsK/story.html

I learned a lot about bipolar disorder by reading that book. That helped me understand a relative who has bipolar disorder II because the book chronicles how having bipolar disorder affected Paul English's life. That, in turn, also gave me some assurance that my relative had not been misdiagnosed. It spurred an enlightening conversation with him in which he told me the details of what it is like when he has episodes of hypomania and depression. 

Here is an article about the misdiagnosis of bipolar disorder. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2945875/

This subject interests me because I have a close friend who was diagnosed and treated for bipolar disorder for 15 years. She lived with my family for a few years, and I saw no signs of bipolar disorder. In the end, it turned out she had severe PTSD. She didn't know that because her therapist refused to discuss the precipitating events with her. She got a new therapist, a new diagnosis and treatment for PTSD, and her life has turned around. She works full-time now and has a wide circle of friends and a life she enjoys.

Often the misdiagnosis of bipolar disorder is the other way around, of course.


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## Robert59 (May 2, 2017)

I think she does have Bi=polar because she been in eight mental hospitals in past 4 years and she's 65 years old. She has mood swings even when she on her medicine. She was married to her husband for 45 years before he died from Cancer. She like's to spend money and love to eat for some reason. She love's food so much she will eat at a resturant twice a day everyday. Her children told me she told them about every week she wanted to kill herself when they was young. Her husband never made her take her medicine for years and how did he live with her so long without driving him crazy.


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## Shalimar (May 2, 2017)

I can't imagine living with a person with BPD who refused to take their meds. Soon I would be crazy also. One of my best friends has severe BPD 2. He takes his meds, but it is still challenging  to be around him at times.


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## Robert59 (May 2, 2017)

Her husband must have worked 12 hour days so he wouldn't have deal with her.


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## Robert59 (Nov 9, 2019)

I take care of this friend that has bi-polar and she's worse today and she takes medicine.


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## Robert59 (Nov 10, 2019)

I wonder if all people with bi-polar wants too ear out everyday seven days a week. She acks like she must or will die.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 1, 2019)

One of my grandson's is bi-polar.  When he's doing alright, he's charming and so intelligent but when he's off his meds, he really goes off the deep end. He's gone to a in house program a couple of times but each time was only two weeks. Not long enough. He's grown and we can't force him to be institutionalized for longer treatment.


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## Hulaboomer1 (Dec 29, 2019)

ndynt said:


> My son-in-law is bi-polar.  Brilliant academically and technically.  But, irrational.  His meds make him drowsy.  I do not know how my daughter has dealt with him for 28 years.  He is a "crazy maker", even medicated.  A control freak...never wrong...always trying to force others to follow his manic ideations.  Right now it is about his daughter getting married.  Trying to force us to take sides.  His irrational thinking is very hard to deal with.


My ex daughter in law ias  bipolar  as well as abandonment issues  after 4 yrs they divorced. I have 2 grandchi7 12 and 9 and hoping they will be ok..my son keeps a good eye on the kids because she can be high as nigh can be but when she drops she is horrible. She has text me so many times bitching about my son. She can b sweet as gold to him the boom the. Ike drops and its over. I have b,locked her from my phone I have nothing to do with her


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## Robert59 (Dec 30, 2019)

She found the best drug for Bi-polar and it's called Latuda and it works wonder's because she is more normal thinking. 
https://www.latuda.com/


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## Repondering (Dec 30, 2019)

My mother was bipolar.  I learned to be her caregiver through her downward swings and was the family cook and housekeeper in the deepest phases of her depression which occurred four times a year.  Her manic phases were easier to manage.
She never received any professional treatment and eventually the severe moodswings became milder in her mid eighties.  She died at 94 almost one year ago.  She died disappointed and unhappy with her life.


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## Doomp (Jan 3, 2020)

There are several different types of bipolar disorder. Some people can chart their episodes on a calendar, they're that predictable. Others are "rapid cyclers" and don't know from one minute to the next how they're going to feel. Some get very hypermanic and might even hallucinate, while others get hypomanic (no psychosis). It really needs to be diagnosed by an expert. I fortunately do not have it, but I've known a few people who do, and they are the only ones capable of understanding the disorder. You really have to be there.


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## Doomp (Jan 3, 2020)

Shalimar said:


> I can't imagine living with a person with BPD who refused to take their meds. Soon I would be crazy also. One of my best friends has severe BPD 2. He takes his meds, but it is still challenging  to be around him at times.


They often go off the medication because it really flattens their mood. They miss their "up" state. Yes, they're challenging to be around.


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## Robert59 (Jan 4, 2020)

My girlfriend that has Bi-polar has mood swings and she go from wanting to die to being happy. It take one bad thing that triggers her to go into another bad mood.


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## oldman (Jan 4, 2020)

This was told to me by our Purser after we landed. We had left New York and flying down to Miami. We were in the air for about 45 minutes when a young girl about 20 years of age jumped out of her seat and began running up and down the aisles yelling, “We’re all going to die.” 

Unknown to me, we had an Air Marshall onboard and he was able to get control of her and put his cuffs on her. He sat with her the rest of the way to Miami. Her mother told the AM that she suffered from severe Bi-polar disease and Tourette’s Syndrome. 

What a terrible pair of diseases to have to live with. I asked the AM for her name and address for my report. I felt so bad for her that I contacted United and asked if they would send her two vouchers for free flights. They actually approved the request, which I thought that because of her behavior, they would deny it. (I’m still shaking my head.)


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## Robert59 (Jan 4, 2020)

My girl friend got a call from a person she owed money to and they said if she doesn't pay they will take her to court which freaked her out. Now all she thinks about is going to jail and then starts going on about dying and needs to die before going too jail.


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## Robert59 (Jan 4, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> I wonder if all people with bi-polar wants too ear out everyday seven days a week. She acks like she must or will die.


I meant to say not ear but eat out.


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## oldman (Jan 5, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> My girl friend got a call from a person she owed money to and they said if she doesn't pay they will take her to court which freaked her out. Now all she thinks about is going to jail and then starts going on about dying and needs to die before going too jail.


Why would she think that she is going to jail for non payment? There are no debtor’s prisons, unless she committed fraud.


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## Robert59 (Jan 5, 2020)

oldman said:


> Why would she think that she is going to jail for non payment? There are no debtor’s prisons, unless she committed fraud.


This is caused by bi-polar I think? She gets paranoid sometimes. One time she wrecked a car because she said people was following her.


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## jerry old (Jan 5, 2020)

SifuPhil said:


> What's even scarier is when these labels are stuck on children who are only guilty of being children.
> Ever wonder why the old term "manic/depressive" was changed to "bipolar disorder"?
> 
> "Not sure, let me check the DSM, we have to come up with something to hospitalize him or get payment for therapy, insurance payments must have a diagnosis."
> ...


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## AnnieA (Jan 5, 2020)

Doomp said:


> There are several different types of bipolar disorder. Some people can chart their episodes on a calendar, they're that predictable. Others are "rapid cyclers" and don't know from one minute to the next how they're going to feel. Some get very hypermanic and might even hallucinate, while others get hypomanic (no psychosis). It really needs to be diagnosed by an expert. I fortunately do not have it, but I've known a few people who do, and they are the only ones capable of understanding the disorder. You really have to be there.



Hypomania can manifest in Type II Bipolar as anxiety only.  The hypomania anxiety state along with the depression "down" times--which can be severe in Type II--makes it look as though the person is depressed only (unipolar depression).  If this isn't accurately diagnosed, and the person is treated with standard antidepressants, the drugs either won't work or will only work for a short time.


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## Doomp (Jan 5, 2020)

AnnieA said:


> Hypomania can manifest in Type II Bipolar as anxiety only.  The hypomania anxiety state along with the depression "down" times--which can be severe in Type II--makes it look as though the person is depressed only (unipolar depression).  If this isn't accurately diagnosed, and the person is treated with standard antidepressants, the drugs either won't work or will only work for a short time.


I've heard that people with BPD can be both depressed and manic at the same time.


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## AnnieA (Jan 6, 2020)

Doomp said:


> I've heard that people with BPD can be both depressed and manic at the same time.



They can.  And that's much harder to detect in Bipolar II since they never have the full-blown mania of classic Bipolar I.

Take away is that if you know someone who experiences prolonged bouts of non-situational depression and doesn't respond for long or at all to standard antidepressants, suggest they read up on and talk to their doctor about Bipolar II.


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## treeguy64 (Jan 10, 2020)

oldman said:


> This was told to me by our Purser after we landed. We had left New York and flying down to Miami. We were in the air for about 45 minutes when a young girl about 20 years of age jumped out of her seat and began running up and down the aisles yelling, “We’re all going to die.”
> 
> Unknown to me, we had an Air Marshall onboard and he was able to get control of her and put his cuffs on her. He sat with her the rest of the way to Miami. Her mother told the AM that she suffered from severe Bi-polar disease and Tourette’s Syndrome.
> 
> What a terrible pair of diseases to have to live with. I asked the AM for her name and address for my report. I felt so bad for her that I contacted United and asked if they would send her two vouchers for free flights. They actually approved the request, which I thought that because of her behavior, they would deny it. (I’m still shaking my head.)


Sorry, I'm missing something, here. Why on Earth would you want this woman to have free flights, so she could inflict herself on even more passengers? That makes zero sense, to me. You're still shaking your head at something YOU brought about? Surely you're joking, right?


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## oldman (Jan 10, 2020)

treeguy64 said:


> Sorry, I'm missing something, here. Why on Earth would you want this woman to have free flights, so she could inflict herself on even more passengers? That makes zero sense, to me. You're still shaking your head at something YOU brought about? Surely you're joking, right?


Yes, I was trying to show how absurd some things can be. I never thought my company would have approved a stupid request like that.


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## gennie (Jan 10, 2020)

oldman said:


> Yes, I was trying to show how absurd some things can be. I never thought my company would have approved a stupid request like that.


Stupidity knows no bounds.  Common sense is really not all that common.


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## Kate48 (Jan 19, 2020)

Interesting, I did not expect to find this subject posted when I joined but I am grateful now. 
My entire family, all the females, are very clearly bipolar and I have confirmed this by speaking to a couple of them and they filled me in. It became nearly impossible to be a friend with them, deal with radical emotional episodes and being rejected for no reason I could grasp, so many emotional roller coaster episodes,  so I found a group of what I guess are well adjusted (normal) people. My mother was bipolar I am certain. I loved her so.  She suffered but doctors did not know enough about this disorder back then. My own daughter is bipolar and although I know she loves me, due to recent situations where she is living, she has stopped communication. She has retreated into herself.  I have a therapist who has helped me through this. She will come around in time. I have learned to let go. I have learned how to be supportive for her.  I do not question or try to instruct her. This has been of great help to the both of us. One thing that I have learned that is so very important is:   

You do not need to completely understand a person to love them with all your heart.


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## Judycat (Jan 19, 2020)

My daughter had bi-polar disorder. Symptoms became apparent when she was 25. She did everything she could to get better but she grew progressively worse over time until she couldn't take it anymore. I miss her every day,


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## Robert59 (Mar 23, 2020)

Today this girlfriend of mine wants to die because of this vires. This has always been wanting most of here life. It's like a light switch off and on.


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## Robert59 (Jul 11, 2020)

Today she is real manic in the positive side. Takes medicine which is the best so far for her. Now she loves people and in the past she had no interest in people at all. I call her the Energizer Bunny because of her high manic. She has type one Bipolar. I just wonder if her sister has this also? She drives a car like a bat out of hell. She blows up real easy over nothing. She will not go to a mental doctor to see if she is. 

Their mother was not bipolar but their father was.


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## jerry old (Jul 11, 2020)

Caution your children and grandchildren to check out their intended spouse's
parent's and grandparents for emotional problems.
The genetic link lingers, perhaps skipping one generation then returning...
You marry a 'crazy,' your marriage will be chaotic-at best

Unfortunately, advice given to a young person, 'in love,' will be ignored.


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## applecruncher (Jul 11, 2020)

I knew someone who, during manic phases, would go visit co-workers and boss at their homes, unannounced....crying and apologizing for her behavior at work. Then she went thru a letter-writing phase.  She was on diet pills which at the time were easy to get. (1970s)

Although she was seeing a counselor, she was terminated from her job for tardiness, missing work, poor performance, and disruptive behavior.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 11, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> Today she is real manic in the positive side. Takes medicine which is the best so far for her. Now she loves people and in the past she had no interest in people at all. I call her the Energizer Bunny because of her high manic. She has type one Bipolar. I just wonder if her sister has this also? She drives a car like a bat out of hell. She blows up real easy over nothing. She will not go to a mental doctor to see if she is.
> 
> Their mother was not bipolar but their father was.


I don't envy you Robert! How do you manage?


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## Robert59 (Jul 11, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I don't envy you Robert! How do you manage?


The state of Tennessee is looking for me a job so I can get away from her for 4 hours or more a day. They wanted to remove her from my house but she would end up living back on the street homeless at 68 years old.


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## OneEyedDiva (Jul 11, 2020)

Robert59 said:


> The state of Tennessee is looking for me a job so I can get away from her for 4 hours or more a day. They wanted to remove her from my house but she would end up living back on the street homeless at 68 years old.


I don't understand what gives the state the right to remove her unless they were providing another place for her to stay. And you stay Tenn. is looking for a job for you. If you don't care to clarify, I understand. Or you could message me if you don't want to answer here.


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## Robert59 (Jul 11, 2020)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I don't understand what gives the state the right to remove her unless they were providing another place for her to stay. And you stay Tenn. is looking for a job for you. If you don't care to clarify, I understand. Or you could message me if you don't want to answer here.


The state said I don't need to take care of someone with Bipolar, Her family needs to do it but they will not because of her Bipolar they have told me. She been with me for 4 years. The state is looking for a job for me mainly because of my medical bills which is every month for eye shots and my medical insurance of 400.00 a month. I will be having eye shots for the rest of my life the doctor has said or I will go blind.


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## JaniceM (Jul 12, 2020)

applecruncher said:


> I knew someone who, during manic phases, would go visit co-workers and boss at their homes, unannounced....crying and apologizing for her behavior at work. Then she went thru a letter-writing phase.  She was on diet pills which at the time were easy to get. (1970s)
> 
> Although she was seeing a counselor, she was terminated from her job for tardiness, missing work, poor performance, and disruptive behavior.


Did anyone think to consider the effects of the diet pills?  
Some people can get downright squirrely because many of those things are nothing more than speed.


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## 911 (Jul 12, 2020)

There used to be a diet pill named fen-phen. It was later taken off the market as a diet pill because it caused heart valve problems.
It can still be bought under a different name in health food and other pill stores and even Wal-Mart.

Druggies use it to come down from their high or after using a speed drug. What’s that tell you?


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## JaniceM (Jul 12, 2020)

911 said:


> There used to be a diet pill named fen-phen. It was later taken off the market as a diet pill because it caused heart valve problems.
> It can still be bought under a different name in health food and other pill stores and even Wal-Mart.
> 
> Druggies use it to come down from their high or after using a speed drug. What’s that tell you?


It tells me what I already know:  it's not a good idea to put foreign substances into one's system.


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## Just Jeff (Jun 18, 2022)

JaniceM said:


> It tells me what I already know:  it's not a good idea to put foreign substances into one's system.


This includes almost any drug,medicine, presciption even ,  unless 'needed' or thought to be 'needed' until another help is discovered 'from the past' - i.e. before corporations took over.



Robert59 said:


> She will not go to a mental doctor to see if she is.


Good for her.   Those quacks hurt more people by far than they cure.  If someone needs one for a time,  until they discover better way,  so be it , for a while.


JaniceM said:


> Did anyone think to consider the effects of the diet pills?
> Some people can get downright squirrely because many of those things are nothing more than speed.


"We are what we eat."  Very old saying/proverb.  "Food is out medicine." also.   but the corporations /greed/ prevents the public from knowing this unless they find out for themselves,  from family, friends or even from the Creator.

There was no disease called "man......." until the political/medical authorities created it. Before then,  and look up if it is still available,  
see "pellagra" and the obvious way it was 'cured' easily.


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