# Insurance Policies and stability clause



## Camper6 (Jan 7, 2019)

I received my insurance policy in the mail and for the first time in a long time I read the whole thing through.

I had some corrections.  One was on the type of heat in my apartment.

The other was correcting the marital status from M to S.  I am widowed.

When I phoned the changes in I was told that there would be no change for the heat type but because I went from M to S that there would be an extra charge of $34 a year.  I inquired why.  I was told because married are considered 'more stable' than single.

I said to her.  I am going to take it to court.  There's no way married people can be considered more stable than single.  At least not in my city. 

Any comments other than I should have kept my mouth shut?


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## C'est Moi (Jan 7, 2019)

What kind of insurance?   That seems weird.


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## Camper6 (Jan 8, 2019)

C'est Moi said:


> What kind of insurance?   That seems weird.


House and car insurance.

They haven't heard the end of this.

i will be writing a letter to their head office.

Im betting all those who are single but got married never got their insurance reduced.

It is weird as are all insurance policies.


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## Pauline1954 (Mar 15, 2019)

Im new here and just happened to come across this post of yours.

It sure sounds like discrimination. Frankly, this may be a case for an attorney if you so desire to find out. But then you have to live in your home. Im sorry you are being treated like this. Best of luck. Let us know what happens.


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## Aunt Bea (Mar 16, 2019)

I think that it has been that way since cars were invented.

Marriage seems to add some stability in a person's life and that translates into fewer accidents.


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## Don M. (Mar 16, 2019)

I can see some logic behind insurance companies charging more for Singles...especially Men and Auto Insurance.  It's somewhat likely that men living alone would be more prone to depression and substance/alcohol abuse...which would translate into a higher risk when they are driving.  I know I miss my wife when we are apart for any length of time, and if I ever lost her, it would be a real challenge to remain "sane".


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## Camper6 (Mar 16, 2019)

Don M. said:


> I can see some logic behind insurance companies charging more for Singles...especially Men and Auto Insurance.  It's somewhat likely that men living alone would be more prone to depression and substance/alcohol abuse...which would translate into a higher risk when they are driving.  I know I miss my wife when we are apart for any length of time, and if I ever lost her, it would be a real challenge to remain "sane".



I think there should be some distinction.

There should be single married and widowed.

Widowed are the most experienced and stable persons on the planet.  They have seen it all.


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## Geezerette (Mar 16, 2019)

I would be shopping around to different insurance companies to see if they all do that.


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## debbie in seattle (Mar 16, 2019)

That’s bullshit!    Talk about discrimination.


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## fuzzybuddy (Mar 16, 2019)

I thought that's bullshit. But then I thought when you take out a policy, you do answer  about your marital status. Have they been do that crap, without even disclosing why they ask those questions?


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## Keesha (Mar 16, 2019)

Aunt Bea said:


> I think that it has been that way since cars were invented.
> 
> Marriage seems to add some stability in a person's life and that translates into fewer accidents.




:lofl: My husband often tells me I make a horrible passenger  at times


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## Camper6 (Jul 5, 2019)

A good passenger keeps his seat back so that the driver can see the road and he keeps his mouth shut and lets the driver drive.  Unless he is asks he doesn't give any instructions.

There are two types of drivers.   The quick and the dead.

Question.  Does he live on Neebing Avenue.? Yes. But don't tell him how to get there unless he asks.


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## wvnewbie (Jul 5, 2019)

Actuarial science.  Insurance is based upon statistical risk. No offense... But, all the others in your "group" make you a risk too.


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## Camper6 (Jul 6, 2019)

wvnewbie said:


> Actuarial science. Insurance is based upon statistical risk. No offense... But, all the others in your "group" make you a risk too.


 
But they only use two criteria.  Married or Single.  They don't use widowed or divorced.  You could be married 50 years without an accident and when your wife dies you are suddenly a risk because you are in the singles group?

The insurance company is going to hear about it. Insurance companies try to squeeze every cent they can out of you.


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## Camper6 (Jul 6, 2019)

Don M. said:


> I can see some logic behind insurance companies charging more for Singles...especially Men and Auto Insurance.  It's somewhat likely that men living alone would be more prone to depression and substance/alcohol abuse...which would translate into a higher risk when they are driving.  I know I miss my wife when we are apart for any length of time, and if I ever lost her, it would be a real challenge to remain "sane".



All kinds of people get divorces, so how 'stable' were they during the marriage?  This is their claim.
Married people are more stable.


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## GreenSky (Jul 6, 2019)

Would it be better if the insurance companies gave a discount for two or more people in the household?  Many companies do this for Medicare supplements and it's all based upon statistics.

They don't charge single people more because they're single.  They just don't receive a discount.  Statistics are all that matter.  Period.  It's not a conspiracy.

Rick


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## WhatInThe (Jul 6, 2019)

Insurance is a bet. Insurance companies are the house. The customer is betting they will have to collect or use their policy.  The company is betting they won't but hedges the bet to ensure profit no matter what happens.

Data is as only good as the source and analysts.


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## GreenSky (Jul 6, 2019)

Let me sell you some life insurance.  There is no bet.  The company will pay.  And isn't life a bet?  We try to take more value from anything we do compared to the cost.  If insurance companies don't make a profit they cease to exist.  All business stops as no individual (small) company can take the risk of liability and property loss.  I have homeowners insurance, not because I am required, but because I can better afford $500 a year than $300,000 to build a new house.  It's a damn good thing the company makes enough of a profit to do this for me.

Unfortunately, individuals have lost the point of insurance. It's not to cover a $60 office visit. It's to cover more catastrophic losses. This is just one of the huge failures of Obamacare.

There are companies I don't trust. I don't trust Allstate as their MOI to not pay pay claims. Mutual of Omaha keeps opening and closing Medicare companies and have huge rate increases. But at least in my case I try very hard to keep my clients with companies that don't rip them off.

In case you are wondering, "The *insurance* industry's net *margin* in 2017 ranged between 3 and 10.5%. Life *insurance* had the widest range between quarters, from 3% to 9.6%; property and casualty *insurance* were at 3% to 8%; and health *insurance* had the narrowest range of 4% to 5.25%. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/an...al-profit-margin-company-insurance-sector.asp.

So please explain why a business shouldn't make 5%?  Nobody says doctors and hospitals make too much when they need life saving surgery and certainly nobody complains when the insurance company pays $100,000 on their behalf.

Rick


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## Camper6 (Jul 7, 2019)

We have lost the original post.

I am now paying 34 dollars a year more because my wife died and the insurance company claims because singles are less stable.


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## WhatInThe (Jul 7, 2019)

If they want to use variables like 'single' then every other conceivable variable should used to calculate a reduction as well. It should be a two way street. Single like any other variable should be used and placed in it's proper context. Including age. Older drivers might have accidents but do they speed, run red lights etc. At what age do seniors see an up tick in traffic citations All this should be used in it's proper context but even then it's collected statistics only, not reality. This is why insurance especially if mandated should be straight forward and simple.

The house wants it money and get it anyway possible.


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## GreenSky (Jul 7, 2019)

Charging more or less for marital status is not arbitrary.  The cost is always backed by statistics and the law of large numbers.  Nobody gets picked on because of who they are.

Rick


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## Camper6 (Jul 8, 2019)

GreenSky said:


> Charging more or less for marital status is not arbitrary.  The cost is always backed by statistics and the law of large numbers.  Nobody gets picked on because of who they are.
> 
> Rick



I'm going to fight to get it reduced and I'm going to win after being married for more than fifty years , I'm suddenly a risk?


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## GreenSky (Jul 8, 2019)

Camper6 said:


> I'm going to fight to get it reduced and I'm going to win after being married for more than fifty years , I'm suddenly a risk?


They're not picking on you.  It's just actuarial statistics.

Rick


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## Camper6 (Jul 8, 2019)

GreenSky said:


> They're not picking on you.  It's just actuarial statistics.
> 
> Rick


Do you believe that singles are less stable than married especially with divorce statistics? I don't.


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## GreenSky (Jul 8, 2019)

Camper6 said:


> Do you believe that singles are less stable than married especially with divorce statistics? I don't.



It's not what I think, it's what statistics show.  I'm not defending anything but just pointing out everything boils down to the law of large numbers.  There must be a reason rates for singles would be higher than those for married people.  I know with Medicare people who do not live alone tend to be healthier.  I'm not sure how that translates to auto insurance but I suspect it does.

I did a bit of research and found this little "gem" in a post:  "a 2004 study found that unmarried people are twice as likely to have accidents that cause bodily harm than non-married people, even when taking age, sex, alcohol intake, driving exposure, the area of residence, body mass index, and occupational status into account."  https://www.thebalance.com/car-insurance-rates-for-married-vs-single-4174286

Anyway, it would bother me if I got a rate increase if I became widowed.  But it's all based upon actuarial tables.  Singles in general are higher risks than married.  Sorry.

Rick


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## Camper6 (Jul 9, 2019)

You are correct about actuarial statistics.  But I don't accept everything that the insurance companies throw at you.
For instance if I was married for 50 years and became widowed am I suddenly unstable?  Where are the statistics for that?  I bet they don't exist.   They just group you with all the singles?
I'll keep you posted.  I'm going to fight it and I bet I will win.


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## jerry old (Aug 25, 2019)

I wanted to  post a forever script with my comments, regarding the morality of  business practices of our time and virtually every segment
of those that we have to pay every month.
(I was too dumb to figure it out; SeaBreeze was kind enough to send me instructs-Thanks SeaBreeze!

One of the great social observers of out time, Mr. Leghorn Foghorn commented on the morality of insurance companies :


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## jerry old (Aug 25, 2019)

Another perpetual lie auto insurance companies use:
"No, no, we don't increase our rates as you age.


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## Patio Life (Aug 25, 2019)

Insurance rates are also determined by your zip code and credit rating.


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## mathjak107 (Aug 26, 2019)

Patio Life said:


> Insurance rates are also determined by your zip code and credit rating.


some states are no longer allowing credit rating to be used .

the idea behind couples being cheaper  is that singles as a group tend to   include younger inexperienced  drivers as well as older single drivers . ,  in the case of widows  they may not have driven as much since their  other half would likely drive at least part of the time on trips if not more .

my wife has her licence decades but does not even drive .

.  married couples tend to pool their assets and resources putting them in better potential financial shape  and perhaps less claims .  married couples tend to have a greater need for other insurance products they can be sold.

married couples can tend to ride the coat tail of the other credit wise . someone with a lower score can be elevated through their partner if they are on their credit cards and loans.

80% of all married men die married , 80% of all married women die alone ... so women tend to live longer and drive longer making them greater risks as they age . it is generally the woman who goes on as a widow and drives at older ages . for the amount of miles driven as a group older drivers tend to have more accidents as they age .

so while the reasons may or may not make sense to us they hold a lot of  water with the insurance statistics


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## Buckeye (Aug 26, 2019)

All this for $34 a year?  lol.  Good luck, but be aware that the "windmill" usually wins


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## mathjak107 (Aug 26, 2019)

as they say , you are judged by the company you keep .

how you are categorized determines how you are charged ..

it is like the auto insurance industry had to demonstrate to congress there was a link between credit scores and honesty ...

when millions of claims were  looked at and sorted out , without a doubt there was a link between lower credit scores and the amounts and frequency of claims ..

when actual collisions with other parties happened the numbers were the same between the groups .. but in comprehensive claims  where no other party was involved and it was basically the honor system with no witnesses  , there was a big disparity  in claim size and number of claims by those in the lower credit score groups , as if this was their chance at winning a lottery. so their honesty as a group was called in to question .

they demonstrated enough of a link that the insurers were allowed to incorporate credit worthiness in to your insurance score  , which with other criteria determines your pricing


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## Camper6 (Aug 26, 2019)

Buckeye said:


> All this for $34 a year?  lol.  Good luck, but be aware that the "windmill" usually wins



Yes. $34 doesn't sound like much but it's a night out for a good meal.

It's the principle.  Give them an inch, they will take a mile.


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## mathjak107 (Aug 26, 2019)

Many times switching insurers puts you at the bottom of the totem pole ...after decades with an insurer a ticket or accident may not matter ...get a new company and they may drop you


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## Liberty (Aug 26, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> Many times switching insurers puts you at the bottom of the totem pole ...after decades with an insurer a ticket or accident may not matter ...get a new company and they may drop you


Would you say then it might be best to stay with your current long term insurance provider even though you might get a bit of a cheaper quote from say Amica or another company?  That happened to us the last time I checked.  Still stayed with our current long term "bundled" insurer - Liberty Mutual though.
They've always been "Johnny on the spot" for both home and auto claims.  Did up the home deductible though.


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## mathjak107 (Aug 26, 2019)

Liberty said:


> Would you say then it might be best to stay with your current long term insurance provider even though you might get a bit of a cheaper quote from say Amica or another company?  That happened to us the last time I checked.  Still stayed with our current long term "bundled" insurer - Liberty Mutual though.
> They've always been "Johnny on the spot" for both home and auto claims.  Did up the home deductible though.


I  have been with my insurer 40 years ...they sent me a letter saying that for my loyalty if I have an accident my fault I would not have it held against me...I get cheaper rate quotes. , not by much , all the time but I am not leaving for a few bucks  and then put under a microscope


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## Liberty (Aug 26, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> I  have been with my insurer 40 years ...they sent me a letter saying that for my loyalty if I have an accident my fault I would not have it held against me...I get cheaper rate quotes. , not by much , all the time but I am not leaving for a few bucks  and then put under a microscope


Same here mathjak...that's what I think, too. How a company responds to you in a crisis mode says a lot about the company.  We just had hail damage fixed on our car...the company was wonderful and the place they recommended to do the job was "scary perfect" and timely.


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## Trade (Aug 26, 2019)

Deleted


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## jerry old (Aug 26, 2019)

mathjak107 said:


> as they say , you are judged by the company you keep .
> 
> how you are categorized determines how you are charged ..
> 
> ...


'judged by the company you keep' neat how you worked that into the topic,   twenty years ago I would have filed it in my memory, now I know it would fretter away, can't even remember what it was I forgot


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## Camper6 (Aug 31, 2019)

Liberty said:


> Same here mathjak...that's what I think, too. How a company responds to you in a crisis mode says a lot about the company.  We just had hail damage fixed on our car...the company was wonderful and the place they recommended to do the job was "scary perfect" and timely.


It's amazing isn't it when you are surprised by what a company is supposed to do and what you are paying for?


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## Liberty (Sep 1, 2019)

Camper6 said:


> It's amazing isn't it when you are surprised by what a company is supposed to do and what you are paying for?


Yes Camper...its kind of sad though, isn't it?  Its like you almost  never win with insurance you know?!  The casino always wins!


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