# Colorado Springs



## Warrigal (Nov 28, 2015)

I had heard of Colorado Springs before because there is a church there that exports its particular brand of evangelical Christianity to Australia.

This article is from The Guardian Australia and I'm wondering whether it is a fair assessment of Colorado Springs.



> *Colorado Springs: a playground for pro-life, pro-gun Evangelical Christians  Anti-abortion rhetoric is not hard to find in the city where the ‘fortress-like’ Planned Parenthood centre is the subject of regular protests
> *
> Saturday 28 November 2015 19.24 AEDT
> Last modified on Saturday 28 November 2015
> ...


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## QuickSilver (Nov 28, 2015)

Very sad.... but it happens so often here in the States... I get pissed because all the news coverage of all these shootings disrupts my regularly scheduled TV viewing.. I'm like... "Oh crap.... here we go again."


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## Shalimar (Nov 28, 2015)

So sad. How long before people open their eyes? If things deteriorate sufficiently, what is next? Martial law in many areas? Terrifying--how do people stay sane?


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## QuickSilver (Nov 28, 2015)

http://www.occupydemocrats.com/repu...-silent-on-the-terrorist-attack-they-incited/

Not a peep from the GOP candidates..... only the sound of crickets


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## Davey Jones (Nov 28, 2015)

Give Trump time, he'll make another stupid remark about this.


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## BobF (Nov 28, 2015)

Nothing wrong but the ignorant ones that think they must attack all abortion clinics.   They call themselves to be Christians.   What a joke that is as Christians are taught to be tolerant of other ideas.   Christians are not authorized to go threaten others and cause such concern as done yesterday.    It was not the gun that was the problem.   Just a whacko that thought he was on some sort of Christian mission.   But instead he was just creating death and needs to die himself for doing so.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 28, 2015)

[h=1]Obama On Planned Parenthood Shooting: 'Enough Is Enough'[/h]http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obama-planned-parenthood-shooting 


President Obama weighed in on Friday's Planned Parenthood shooting in a statement released Saturday morning. He condemned the gunman "for terrorizing an entire community" and praised the University of Colorado Colorado Springs Garrett Swasey, who was among the three people killed in the attack. 

"This is not normal. We can’t let it become normal," the statement said. "If we truly care about this -- if we’re going to offer up our thoughts and prayers again, for God knows how many times, with a truly clean conscience -- then we have to do something about the easy accessibility of weapons of war on our streets to people who have no business wielding them. Period. Enough is enough 
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obama-planned-parenthood-shooting


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## QuickSilver (Nov 28, 2015)

The GOP and the Candidates have incited this by their constant rhetoric about Planned Parenthood and the unrelenting attempts to shut it down by defunding.  Including the lie told by Carly Fiorina regarding the bogus "baby body part selling" video.  It was just a matter of time before some nut-job decided to take the matter into his own hands.  Of course you will not hear a peep out of the candidates because denouncing this violence against PP will likely cost them the votes of the 30% of Republicans that agree with them.   Can't have that...


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## 911 (Nov 28, 2015)

Has anyone here ever watched the program on Discovery ID called "The Homicide Hunter" with Joe Kenda as the main player? Joe is a retired detective and a Lt. that was in charge of the Colorado Springs' Police Department-Major Crimes Unit. Joe's record speaks for itself and while I only vaguely know of him, but from what I have read and from what I have seen of him on TV, (He does not read from a script. Every line he articulates is from memory.), I have come to the conclusion that Joe would have been successful at whatever he had decided to do in life. BTW, Joe is originally from the Pittsburgh area.

Anyway, after watching many of his shows, I have come to the conclusion that if I were to shoot someone Colorado Springs may be the place to do it. At the end of each show they tell the audience what the defendant was charged with and then give the verdict and sentence. All too many times, I have noticed that the original sentence was over-turned for whatever reason and a new sentence was imposed. Just this past week, I saw a show where a woman killed a man in cold blood and was given a 4 month sentence, plus a $500.00 fine. Now, this one was at Fort Carson, which is also located in CS and would have been a court-martial. However, I have seen many cases where the sentences that were imposed in criminal court were dramatically reduced to near nothing compared to what PA doles out for the same crime and pretty close to the same set of facts. This is by NO means a reflection on Joe. I think he is a sort of super cop, in my book. I have a lot of respect for this man. His show is real. Very little, if any Hollywood stuff. 

But my point is that although the real issue here is the fact of another douche-bag going off of his rocker and shooting up a place and killing innocent people, Colorado has a been a lot less than a perfect model on how to deter shootings. I have never seen so many reduced sentences as I have in Colorado since watching this show. Having said all of this, I think this guy is going away forever, unless he is found to be mentally incompetent to stand trial.


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## Don M. (Nov 28, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> I had heard of Colorado Springs before because there is a church there that exports its particular brand of evangelical Christianity to Australia.
> 
> This article is from The Guardian Australia and I'm wondering whether it is a fair assessment of Colorado Springs.
> 
> [/LIST]



I grew up in Colorado, and still visit relatives in the Denver area, frequently.  I would have to say that this "Guardian" article is fairly accurate.  The Denver area is pretty Moderate, but Colorado Springs seems to have become a real magnet for the "Evangelicals".  There are many large such churches, and headquarters for these types in the Colorado Springs area, and that part of the state is a really Far Right/religious extremist enclave.  

At least the police were able to capture this latest Lunatic alive, and perhaps in coming days and weeks we will learn more about his motivations, etc.


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## BobF (Nov 28, 2015)

Before the beginning of allowing planned parenthood in the US, the wife and I were discussing going to some other country if needed to stop a third pregnancy if necessary.   But as it worked out some laws were changed and no need to go out of the country for personal decisions.

We are both the accused Republican's and I doubt if that is really true about blaming the Republicans.   Usually we find that these attackers are not of any real religious groups but of some rather quirky religious groups.   If blaming it on whom, we would need to attack the Catholic church as they do not approve of birth control or abortions.    But it is not the Catholic church.    And to blame the Catholic church is forgetting that many of the Catholic church are both Democrats and Republicans come election day and if so then they should all be denied abortions.   What was this persons reasons for the attack and killings.

I agree that we should have those choices legally and tell the Churches to control their people and leave all others alone.


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## Jackie22 (Nov 28, 2015)

Very true QS, just read a few of the comments in the article you posted the link to....you get a good sampling of 'baby body parts selling' thinking, one person talking about slicing up baby's bodies.....Sick!


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## fureverywhere (Nov 28, 2015)

It's sad the state of Colorado over the last fifty years. Denver used to have a way progressive music scene. One of the first states to legalize weed, loose gun laws and open carry permitted. But still in place are breed ban laws. That is you can be legally baked, locked and loaded...but the wrong breed of pup in the city limits and the Dog Nazi's will be knocking on your door.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 28, 2015)

BobF said:


> It was not the gun that was the problem.   Just a whacko that thought he was on some sort of Christian mission.   But instead he was just creating death and needs to die himself for doing so.



Couldn't agree more.


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## Butterfly (Nov 28, 2015)

The news I have read hasn't made any "Christian" connection yet.  Just a garden variety wacko.  Trouble is, if you're wacko enough, you get declared incompetent to stand trial.  If that happens, I hope they put him in a hospital for the criminally insane forever.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 28, 2015)

You just know there is going to be an antiabortion motive..


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 28, 2015)

Butterfly said:


> The news I have read hasn't made any "Christian" connection yet.  Just a garden variety wacko.  Trouble is, if you're wacko enough, you get declared incompetent to stand trial.  If that happens, I hope they put him in a hospital for the criminally insane forever.



I hadn't heard on the news that he was a Chrisitian either, but definitely a mentally ill person, animal abuser, etc.  Seems like he's had a lot of run-ins with the law in the past.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...-parenthood-shooting_565925b3e4b08e945feb4375


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## Don M. (Nov 28, 2015)

Colorado certainly isn't the State I remember growing up in.  But, then...neither is any other place.  The mountains used to be pristine, but now, any place that they can build a road to has houses.  The biggest change occurred in the 1970's....shortly after the Arab Oil embargo.  There was a big push to start mining the oil shale, and huge numbers of people from Texas and California moved to Colorado, and pretty much changed the population...and not all for the better.  

Insofar as these religious extremists are concerned....be they Muslim or Evangelical...I think an awful lot of them will be given front row seats at the fires of Hell.


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## Warrigal (Nov 28, 2015)

I can't get past this piece of information in the OP



> As the first state to legalise abortion and the first to implement a regulated marijuana market, Colorado is a state that doesn’t take kindly to government infringements on personal rights.
> 
> Three weeks before Friday’s Planned Parenthood shooting, a man was seen brandishing a rifle while walking down the streets of Colorado Springs on Halloween morning. A concerned citizen called the 911 Emergency Line to notify the police, but was told by the operator: “Well, it is an open carry state, so he can have a weapon with him or walking around with it,” referencing state laws that allow the brandishing of a firearm in public.
> 
> ...



Someone is walking around brandishing (whatever that means) a rifle and someoe who witnesses it is concerned enough to ring the police and it doesn't even get past the switchboard? They don't even despatch a car to see what is going on or to question the armed man and subsequently three people are shot and killed?

Then there is this account on how people in the area of the clinic were affected, not counting those that were actually shot at.



> Sydney Downey, 20, who works at Sally Beauty Supply nearby, said people inside the store heard gunshots about 11:45 a.m.
> “A lot of gunshots,” Downey said, “like, too many to even count.”
> She said police and firefighters swarmed Centennial Boulevard, where the clinic is located, and crowded around a nearby bank.
> An officer came by the beauty supply store to make sure that the doors were locked and that those inside were safe, she said.
> ...



It is not normal to have to cower away from the windows of your place of work to avoid being shot. It is in fact outrageous and ought to result in some changes that are designed to prevent such things happening in the future.


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## BobF (Nov 28, 2015)

For that person walking the street with a rifle to be openly connected to the standoff and shootings another time is not honest or actual either.   Were those events on the same day?    In the US it is OK to have a rifle or pistol and walk the streets.   You better get after the Swiss as they do this all the time.

[bran-dish]

   verb (used with object)    
1.  to shake or wave, as a weapon; flourish: Brandishing his sword, he rode into battle.

    noun    
2.  a flourish or waving, as of a weapon.


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## Warrigal (Nov 28, 2015)

BobF said:


> For that person walking the street with a rifle to be openly connected to the standoff and shootings another time is not honest or actual either.   Were those events on the same day?    In the US it is OK to have a rifle or pistol and walk the streets.   You better get after the Swiss as they do this all the time.
> 
> [bran-dish]
> 
> ...



No, they were separate events. Each led to the deaths of three people.
How many such events are necessary before people start thinking about laws to protect innocent civilians?

If a person is walking down a street 'brandishing' a weapon, should the police consider this as nothing to be concerned about until people are actually shot at?
What would happen if the same person were walking down the street brandishing a Samurai sword or a scimitar? Would no-one be bothered by this?

We have seen incidents where police officers have shot to death unarmed people they thought were carrying a gun but when someone is actually walking around with a powerful rifle and behaving strangely enough to trigger a call to the police, nothing happens? Does this make sense to anybody?


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## Jackie22 (Nov 28, 2015)

[h=1]Planned Parenthood Shooting Suspect Made Comment About 'No More Baby Parts': Sources[/h]*Planned Parenthood Shooting Suspect Made Comment About 'No More Baby Parts': Sources* 
NBC News 

The day after a gunman killed three people and shot nine others at a Colorado Planned Parenthood office, officials tell NBC News a motive remains unclear, but say the suspect talked about politics and abortion.

Robert Lewis Dear, a North Carolina native who was living in a trailer in Colorado, made statements to police Friday at the scene of the Colorado Springs clinic and in interviews that law enforcement sources described as rantings. 

In one statement, made after the suspect was taken in for questioning, Dear said "no more baby parts" in reference to Planned Parenthood, according to two law enforcement sources with knowledge of the case. 

But the sources stressed that Dear said many things to law enforcement and the extent to which the "baby parts" remark played into any decision to target the Planned Parenthood office was not yet clear. He also mentioned President Barack Obama in statements... 

Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...spect-made-comment-about-no-more-baby-n470706


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## BobF (Nov 28, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> No, they were separate events. Each led to the deaths of three people.
> How many such events are necessary before people start thinking about laws to protect innocent civilians?
> 
> If a person is walking down a street 'brandishing' a weapon, should the police consider this as nothing to be concerned about until people are actually shot at?
> ...




You should read the stats in the US.    In spite of your constant worrying the US is slowly lowering its rates of homicides.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf#page=27

Look to page 2 for most recent number and charts.    The items on page 2 did not copy and reproduce well at all.   See below.   Best link and look.    The numbers are steadily going down.   We don't need to just eliminate guns from our existance at all.   That is a false idea and it is in our Constitution to be OK.   Only way to eliminate guns is to change our Constitution and that will be a tough job as both Democrats and Republicans like the ownership and use of guns for various reasons.   Some is just like the Swiss in the gun clubs and shoot outs being held locally, in state competitions, and hunting for some.   All this get rid of guns nonsense should be kept at home and not pushed in a different country that does not agree with your ideas.   I will keep on looking as I once had similar links and they did copy and post.

P
AT T E R N S
 & T
R E N D S
Long term trends and patterns
In the last decade (since 2000) the homicide rate declined to 
levels last seen in the mid-1960s 

  e homicide rate doubled from the early 1960s to the late 
1970s, increasing from 4.6 per 100,000 U.S. residents in 1962 
to 9.7 per 100,000 by 1979 
( gure 1)
. (See 
Methodology
 for 
information on rate calculations.)

In 1980 the rate peaked at 10.2 per 100,000 and subsequently fell 
to 7.9 per 100,000 in 1984. 

  e rate rose again in the late 1980s and early 1990s to another 
peak in 1991 of 9.8 per 100,000.

  e homicide rate declined sharply from 9.3 homicides per 
100,000 in 1992 to 4.8 homicides per 100,000 in 2010. 
The number of homicides reached an all-time high of 24,703 
homicides in 1991 then fell rapidly to 15,522 homicides by 
1999

  e number of homicides increased steadily from the early 1950s 
until the mid-1970s 
( gure 2)
.

Between 1999 and 2008, the number of homicides remained 
relatively constant, ranging from a low of 15,552 homicides in 
1999 to a high of 17,030 homicides in 2006.   ese homicide 
numbers were still below those reported in the 1970s, when the 
number of reported homicides  rst rose above 20,000 (reaching 
20,710 in 1974).
FIGURE 1
Homicide victimization rates, 1950–2010
0
2
4
6
8
10
12
2010200019901980197019601950
Rate per 100,000 
Note: Data are based on annual estimates of homicide from 
previously published versions of 
Crime in the United States
. Data 
for 1989 to 2008 re ect updated homicide estimates from 
Crime 
in the United States, 2008
. Data for 2009 and 2010 re ect updated 
homicide estimates from 
Crime in the United States, 2010
. 
Source: FBI, 
Uniform Crime Reports, 1950-2010
.
FIGURE 2
Number of homicide victims, 1950–2010
0
5,000
10,000
15,000
20,000
25,000
2010200019901980197019601950
Number
Note: Data are based on annual estimates of homicide from 
previously published versions of 
Crime in the United States
. Data 
for 1989 to 2008 re ect updated homicide estimates from 
Crime 
in the United States, 2008
. Data for 2009 and 2010 re ect updated 
homicide estimates from 
Crime in the United States, 2010
. 
Source: FBI, 
Uniform Crime Reports, 1950-2010
.


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## fureverywhere (Nov 28, 2015)

Makes perfect sense, murder random strangers in cold blood because you think they're somehow connected to selling baby parts. Glad I'm not on his defense team.


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## Warrigal (Nov 28, 2015)

Bob, homicides are not the total picture. I don't want to live in a society where people are frequently being shot at, whether or not they are being hit.
Talk about living in a state of constant nervous tension. Why would anyone want that?

Human beings can get used to anything over time and become rather fatalistic but why not do some things to reduce the risk to life and limb?
Who said anything about eliminating all guns? There are other measures between prohibition and open slather.

I remember years ago in my childhood, long before guns were registered, hearing that if someone was carrying a long gun, for safety reasons it had to be broken. This was to prevent accidental discharge. Shouldn't people who are carrying firearms be required to engage the safety mechanism ? How much of an infringement of their freedom would this simple measure be ? Not any more than requiring people in cars to wear seat belts IMO.


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## Warrigal (Nov 28, 2015)

Bob, you have posted before that US homicide rates are falling but I have answered that the same effect, with the exception of domestic violence, can be seen in Austalia too.

A more interesting question to explore is what has caused the decline in violent crime?

No-one seems to know the reason but many have been put forward.
Here are some that I have found.



> The Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Bureau of Justice Statistics both collect crime data at the end of each year and issue reports throughout the year. Final statistics for 2014 won’t be available for several months.
> 
> But the trend lines are clear: The number of violent crimes has declined since 2006, according to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program. The number of violent crimes committed per 100,000 people has been dropping even longer, from a high of 758 in 1991 to 367.9 in 2013. The rate hasn’t topped 500 per 100,000 people since 2001.
> 
> ...



Forbes magazine talks along similar lines



> Interestingly, the public remains largely unaware of this trend. In every annual Gallup poll since 2003, a majority of American adults have said that crime is rising. And in a 2013 poll, 56% of Americans said that the number of gun crimes is higher than it was two decades ago—even though gun violence peaked in 1993. The public also clings to outdated notions about which cities are the most dangerous. Although New York City’s violent crime rate is about half that of Dallas or Houston, survey respondents continue to rank New York as the second-most unsafe city in the country and Dallas and Houston as the safest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## BobF (Nov 29, 2015)

It is our Constitution that gives us this right to arms.   It is our Constitution and the way our laws are working to show for several years the death rate from guns is going down.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 29, 2015)

Figures

http://news.groopspeak.com/pro-lifers-downright-gleeful-about-planned-parenthood-shooting-tweets/


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## Don M. (Nov 29, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> Bob, homicides are not the total picture. I don't want to live in a society where people are frequently being shot at, whether or not they are being hit.
> Talk about living in a state of constant nervous tension. Why would anyone want that?
> 
> Things like this recent Colorado shooting are extensively covered by the media, and give some people the notion that the U.S. is like living in a war zone.  In reality, the US ranks quite low in its overall homicide rate, compared to many nations....several of whom have rather strict gun laws.  If we could eliminate the drug and street gang related shootings, the U.S. would be one of the safest, and least violent nations on the planet.
> ...


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## QuickSilver (Nov 29, 2015)

> Most of these mass shootings in recent years have been committed by people with a long history of Mental Issues. THAT is the issue, along with drug gangs, that Should Be getting our nations attention.



But nothing to do with the ease of obtaining firearms... lack of background checks and gun show loopholes.. that allow these crazy people to get guns.


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## Shalimar (Nov 29, 2015)

Warri, those of us in the commonwealth don't want to love in such a society. We have our share of mentally disturbed persons
also, yet they refrain from massacring people on an almost weekly basis. I think a certain national desensitisation inevitably occurs when such attacks become systemic.


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## BobF (Nov 29, 2015)

Warrigal, why are you making our existence into a very bad one when it is not?   Except for some cities with large gang neighborhoods we are living pretty well and with out guns firing over us.   I say it again.   If nothing better to post about than we should give up our guns, you might as well just move along.   

We are doing quite well as it is.   No reason to just think we can just outlaw a Constitutional privilege on a whim.   Not many of our lawmakers are going after that movement at all.   Many of the Democrats are avid gun owners as well as the Republicans and independents.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 29, 2015)

> BobF





> *Senior Member*
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Warrigal, why are you making our existence into a very bad one when it is not? Except for some cities with large gang neighborhoods we are living pretty well and with out guns firing over us.* I say it again. If nothing better to post about than we should give up our guns, you might as well just move along. *
> 
> We are doing quite well as it is. No reason to just think we can just outlaw a Constitutional privilege on a whim. Not many of our lawmakers are going after that movement at all. Many of the Democrats are avid gun owners as well as the Republicans and independents.​






Yes  Warrigal.....  Move along...  Bob doesn't like your opinions..


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## Jackie22 (Nov 29, 2015)

I'd say the families of the unnecessary 'death by guns' victims would not agree that we are doing so well, people that are afraid to get into a crowded situation for fear of being shot would not say we were doing so well or the crippled and maimed by gun shot would not say they are doing so well.

I would hope that NO ONE on this forum has to 'move on' because they disagree with you, bob!


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## QuickSilver (Nov 29, 2015)

Jackie22 said:


> I'd say the families of the unnecessary 'death by guns' victims would not agree that we are doing so well, people that are afraid to get into a crowded situation for fear of being shot would not say we were doing so well or the crippled and maimed by gun shot would not say they are doing so well.
> 
> I would hope that NO ONE on this forum has to 'move on' because they disagree with you, bob!



Some people would say that it's only the "lefties" and "Democrats" that are intolerant of other peoples' opinions...   and want to drive them away...


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## The Inspector (Nov 29, 2015)

I give part of the blame for the killing on the people who put out false info, about Planned Parenthood clinics.

This kind false info, can and does incite unbalanced people.

False and misleading info. should be something to be avoided, not used. It can start wars and get people killed.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 29, 2015)

The Inspector said:


> I give part of the blame for the killing on the people who put out false info, about Planned Parenthood clinics.
> 
> This kind false info, can and does incite unbalanced people.
> 
> False and misleading info. should be something to be avoided, not used. It can start wars and get people killed.



I totally agree... and said so in post #8.   This is where the blame should be placed for this incident.




> The GOP and the Candidates have incited this by their constant rhetoric about Planned Parenthood and the unrelenting attempts to shut it down by defunding. Including the lie told by Carly Fiorina regarding the bogus "baby body part selling" video. It was just a matter of time before some nut-job decided to take the matter into his own hands. Of course you will not hear a peep out of the candidates because denouncing this violence against PP will likely cost them the votes of the 30% of Republicans that agree with them. Can't have that...


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## Butterfly (Nov 29, 2015)

> "I totally agree... and said so in post #8.   This is where the blame should be placed for this incident."



And on the wacko himself.


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## BobF (Nov 29, 2015)

This constant position that it is all the problem of the Republicans that is the problem.   How so the Republicans.   Are you folks just saying that only the Republicans are Christians and the rest are just numb headed and have no opinions about birth or abortions.   That is totally dumb and inaccurate.

I and my wife are both Christians, she a Catholic and they are by religion against abortions.   But in reality, she was willing to travel to another country if necessary.   But then we had this horrid idea of OKing abortions in these family clinics.   But our need never occurred so we never had to make that decision.   There is not reason for those folks wanting to end the freedom to do so.   If they don't want to do that just step back and let it happen for others.   Those folks are really not representing the general population about this action.

I suppose that all Catholics that are also Democrats really don't think about their lives and economy and just keep pumping out babies every year.   That is not at all a truth as many like my wife don't want to die of child birth as a friend of mine wife did.   No need for her to have died but to please her beiliefs of religion she chose to die rather than to avoid the problem early enough to avoid such an end.

It is not just the Republicans that want that law changed at all.


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## BobF (Nov 29, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yes  Warrigal.....  Move along...  Bob doesn't like your opinions..



Not true at all.    Warrigal and I go back many years.    She does have some good ideas.    My point was and is, she is attacking our Constitution and there is nothing she can do to get that changed.   Just not a thing any of us can do about guns until it becomes an item of the Congress to take on.   That is hard to do when many of our Democrats and many of our Republicans agree to not mess with the Constitution.   Warrigal is welcome to post here but I am saying it is a waste to spend time on the US consideration for guns being OK.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 29, 2015)




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## Warrigal (Nov 29, 2015)

QuickSilver said:


> Yes  Warrigal.....  Move along...  Bob doesn't like your opinions..



Can't. I've read the parable of the persistent widow :grin:


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## QuickSilver (Nov 29, 2015)

Warrigal said:


> Can't. I've read the parable of the persistent widow :grin:



Your head..... Your wall.....   lol!!!


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## Warrigal (Nov 29, 2015)

Bob is correct. We do go back a long way and have been sparing partners for as long as I can remember. We keep it civil.


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## BobF (Nov 29, 2015)

Thank you Warrigal.


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## Warrigal (Nov 29, 2015)

You are welcome Bob. :grin:
I couldn't stand it if everyone agreed with me.
I argue, therefore I am.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 29, 2015)

You kids have fun then...


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## Warrigal (Nov 29, 2015)

It's no fun without you, QuickSilver


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