# Big Pharma's Philosophy  -  Treat the Symptoms Rather Than the Issue...



## SmoothSeas (Sep 23, 2021)

this just about sums it up  - positively unconscionable ...


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## Murrmurr (Sep 23, 2021)

There's nothing but truth in that statement.

And this one - Ongoing treatment is more profitable than a cure.


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## Gaer (Sep 23, 2021)

Agreed!  But it's a sad statement for society!


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## AnnieA (Sep 23, 2021)

Of all the ancillary care health professions, registered dietitians are the least covered by Medicare and Medicaid.  I figured out that angle early on in my career.  They'll pay us to work in dialysis facilities, but not in family practice clinics when diabetes and hypertension are first diagnosed.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 23, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Of all the ancillary care health professions, registered dietitians are the least covered by Medicare and Medicaid.  I figured out that angle early on in my career.  They'll pay us to work in dialysis facilities, but not in family practice clinics when diabetes and hypertension are first diagnosed.


Excellent point. And what's most crucial for staying healthy? A balanced, nutritional diet.


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## senior chef (Sep 24, 2021)

Agreed. I have a disease that no doctor has been able to give me relief from, let alone actually cure.
They, however, seem quite happy to perform ultra expensive invasive surgery.


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2021)

So true!
BUT, you do realize how disgusted the _"Doctors are Gods"_ crowd will be, don'tcha?


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## Alligatorob (Sep 24, 2021)

My view of this is that of course big Pharma and medicine is a business, and businesses are always about maximizing their profit.  All businesses are and to survive and grow they have to be.  We just have to recognize that when dealing with and regulating them. 



AnnieA said:


> Of all the ancillary care health professions, registered dietitians are the least covered by Medicare and Medicaid.


I agree this is a problem, but I think the blame lies with us and our politicians.  These are government programs we fund and we should decide what they pay for....


win231 said:


> "Doctors are Gods"


Doctors are just very highly trained and highly paid technicians, kind of like automobile mechanics...  For the most part I trust my doctors, but am realistic about who they are and their limits.  Same as the guy who works on my car.


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## Buckeye (Sep 24, 2021)

Lotsa hand wringing and pearl clutching in this thread - so here's the real deal:  don't trust big pharma?  Just don't use any of their products.  No one is forcing you (at least yet).  Think all doctors are money grubbing quacks?  Quit seeing all of them.  

Problem solved.


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## Irwin (Sep 24, 2021)

Don't vaccines treat the "issue" rather than the symptoms?


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## Don M. (Sep 24, 2021)

The drug companies spend billions per year on their "ask your doctor" TV ads.  Those who take these drugs pay for those ads.  The potential "side effects rhetoric" that consumes most of these ads indicates any number of potential problems....which would probable require More Drugs. 

Our entire health care system is Profit Driven, and there is little incentive to offer Cures if delaying or minimizing the problem with drugs helps to keep the money flowing. 

The U.S. population pays twice as much for health care than most other nations....and yet, we rank way down the list, in terms of overall quality of care.   I hope the day comes when our people wake up and recognize that Socialized Health Care  is NOT the "demon" that our present system would have us believe.


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## AnnieA (Sep 24, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> My view of this is that of course big Pharma and medicine is a business, and businesses are always about maximizing their profit.  All businesses are and to survive and grow they have to be.  We just have to recognize that when dealing with and regulating them.
> 
> 
> I agree this is a problem, but I think the blame lies with us and our politicians.  These are government programs we fund and we should decide what they pay for....



There's profit and then there's highway robbery ...or blood money as a high profile figure at the rally linked below calls pharmaceutical companies astronomical profits.

And good luck with change from most of our politicians.  The pharmaceutical industry spends more than any other industry in lobbying the US Congress--and that's above board.  Wonder how much more goes under the table?  They employ approximately three lobbyists for every one senator and representative.

Big Pharma Greed article 21 Sept 2021
This article covers a protest rally just this Tuesday outside the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America's office which is Big Pharma's lobbying headquarters. (Warning ...article content gets political)


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## Murrmurr (Sep 24, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> My view of this is that of course big Pharma and medicine is a business, and businesses are always about maximizing their profit.  All businesses are and to survive and grow they have to be.  We just have to recognize that when dealing with and regulating them.


We should also recognize that it's a problem when business is in bed with regulators (and regulators with policy-makers/legislators). 
An even bigger problem is that we "Little Guys" don't hear much about it, and don't have the power to change it. Sure, we can vote, but that hasn't been working very well.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 24, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Don't vaccines treat the "issue" rather than the symptoms?


I believe they do.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 24, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> Lotsa hand wringing and pearl clutching in this thread - so here's the real deal:  don't trust big pharma?  Just don't use any of their products.  No one is forcing you (at least yet).  Think all doctors are money grubbing quacks?  Quit seeing all of them.
> 
> Problem solved.


Lotsa reductive thinking in this comment, Buckeye.


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## Nathan (Sep 24, 2021)

SmoothSeas said:


> Big Pharma's Philosophy  -  Treat the Symptoms Rather Than the Issue...



I'm certainly not here to defend big pharma, the idea that "profits over patient cure" is hard to look past.    

Truth is: Big Pharma has saved my life and my wife's life several times each.


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## Nathan (Sep 24, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> Lotsa hand wringing and pearl clutching in this thread - so here's the real deal:  don't trust big pharma?  Just don't use any of their products.  No one is forcing you (at least yet).  Think all doctors are money grubbing quacks?  Quit seeing all of them.
> Problem solved.


QFT.


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## AnnieA (Sep 24, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Truth is: Big Pharma has saved my life and my wife's life several times each.



Yes.  They do that and have great power for exploitation because of it.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 24, 2021)

Nathan said:


> I'm certainly not here to defend big pharma, the idea that "profits over patient cure" is hard to look past.
> 
> Truth is: Big Pharma has saved my life and my wife's life several times each.


I agree countless great and even life-saving treatments have come out of Big Pharma, but wouldn't you agree there are potential problems when a very generous portion of the FDA's funding is provided by Big Pharma? That's only one example of many "conflict of interest" issues that are common within Big Pharma and the system.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 24, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> There's profit and then there's highway robbery ...or blood money as a high profile figure at the rally linked below calls pharmaceutical companies astronomical profits.
> 
> And good luck with change from most of our politicians. The pharmaceutical industry spends more than any other industry in lobbying the US Congress--and that's above board. Wonder how much more is under the table? They employ approximately three lobbyists for every one senator and representative.


Anne, how would you regulate the industry without reducing its effectiveness?


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## AnnieA (Sep 24, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> Anne, how would you regulate the industry without reducing its effectiveness?



Set costs for consumers at a reasonable markup beyond research and manufacturing costs.  Read about the EpiPen scandal to learn the abuses of price gouging.

Set limits on the damn lobbying dollars and prohibit political campaign contributions.  If you purchase pharmaceutical products, you!!! are paying for that as well as the product.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 24, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Set costs for consumers at a reasonable markup beyond research and manufacturing costs.


That sounds good, but the government has no good track record setting prices.  Not sure how it would work.


AnnieA said:


> Set limits on the damn lobbying dollars and prohibit political campaign contributions.


I'd like to see an end to all lobbying, period.  However it has proven hard to regulate constitutionally.  

Not saying your ideas are bad, to the contrary I think they are good, just not sure how to make them work...


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2021)

Don M. said:


> The drug companies spend billions per year on their "ask your doctor" TV ads.  Those who take these drugs pay for those ads.  The potential "side effects rhetoric" that consumes most of these ads indicates any number of potential problems....which would probable require More Drugs.
> 
> Our entire health care system is Profit Driven, and there is little incentive to offer Cures if delaying or minimizing the problem with drugs helps to keep the money flowing.
> 
> The U.S. population pays twice as much for health care than most other nations....and yet, we rank way down the list, in terms of overall quality of care.   I hope the day comes when our people wake up and recognize that Socialized Health Care  is NOT the "demon" that our present system would have us believe.


I'm surprised that people don't ask themselves a very simple question when they see those drug ads & hear that suggestion:
_"Talk to your doctor about adding _________(drug) to the ones you're already taking."_
Your doctor spent several years in medical school, passed exams, & is required to regularly attend continuing education.  Why would a patient need to tell him what drugs to prescribe?
I would never hire an attorney & say:  _"This is how I want you to handle my case."_


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## Nathan (Sep 24, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I agree countless great and even life-saving treatments have come out of Big Pharma, but wouldn't you agree there are potential problems when a very generous portion of the FDA's funding is provided by Big Pharma? That's only one example of many "conflict of interest" issues that are common within Big Pharma and the system.





> The FDA's federal budget request for fiscal year (FY) 2012 totaled $4.36 billion,[7] while the proposed 2014 budget is $4.7 billion.[17]  About $2 billion of this budget is generated by user fees. Wikipedia


User fees, which do not automatically translate into "favorable" business treatment...but nevertheless a potential area of abuse.  

A study of the 'money trail' of political contributions by Big Pharma to members of Congress might prove enlightening.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 24, 2021)

Nathan said:


> A study of the 'money trail' of political contributions by Big Pharma to members of Congress might prove enlightening.


Yes, but not surprising...  I think the only way we have to control this kind of thing is to vote against those taking the money.  And to do that we need to know who they are.  Problem is that may not leave us with many people to vote for.


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## Buckeye (Sep 24, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Lotsa reductive thinking in this comment, Buckeye.


Nice try at deflection, but my point is valid and it still stands.  If you have such a huge mistrust of the medical community and big pharma, just quit supporting them and go to your trusted alternative sources.  Hint - reread post 1 and your post 2


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## AnnieA (Sep 24, 2021)

Alligatorob said:


> ...Problem is that may not leave us with many people to vote for.



Sanders or Trump for president, lol!   This is meant is a joke, because they really both have been strong critics of Big Pharma regardless of all their other differences.    Status quo politicians--they're the problem and are the majority so reform is not likely.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 24, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> Nice try at deflection, but my point is valid and it still stands.  If you have such a huge mistrust of the medical community and big pharma, just quit supporting them and go to your trusted alternative sources.  Hint - reread post 1 and your post 2


I don't discount the entire medical field because of some bad players and corruption. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with calling out the corruption.


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## OneEyedDiva (Sep 26, 2021)

Somebody posted that meme on Facebook. Anyone who thinks it's not true is fooling themselves.


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 28, 2021)

The whole US healthcare system is a crazy patchwork put together during WWII.  Companies couldn't always raise wages so they offered health insurance as a benefit.  Over time, companies became responsible for their workers' healthcare.  That makes no sense at all.  

Entrenched interests including insurance companies and doctors want things to stay pretty much the way they are.  

The pharma and biotech companies wouldn't develop new drugs if they couldn't make a profit.  It takes billions of dollars to develop compounds and run clinical trials, and billions more to manufacture and distribute.  But the pharma companies also abuse their rights and privileges via unethical marketing practices.  

I don't have an answer, just pointing out that there are no easy fixes.  We want top quality healthcare, innovative drugs, and extended end-of-life care for all.  Getting there will require stepping on a lot of toes.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 29, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> The whole US healthcare system is a crazy patchwork put together during WWII.  Companies couldn't always raise wages so they offered health insurance as a benefit.  Over time, companies became responsible for their workers' healthcare.  That makes no sense at all.
> 
> Entrenched interests including insurance companies and doctors want things to stay pretty much the way they are.
> 
> ...


Good post Jim Bob, a very rational view of our health care system, and it's problems. 

I do believe we have the best health care, for those who can afford it, anywhere in the world.  And the best in history.  Not that it couldn't be better, but we don't want to upset the apple cart whilst trying to make it better.  Wish I had the answers...

As I age I am becoming more aware of the benefits to me personally.  I had always been lucky with respect to health things, no major illnesses or problems.  Except for a couple of minor accidents I had not been in the hospital at all until last year, age 68.  Since then I have had prostate and hernia surgery, and now have another surgery scheduled for my thumb/hand arthritis.  Makes me think about it from a personal level more...


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## Buckeye (Sep 29, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I don't discount the entire medical field because of some bad players and corruption. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with calling out the corruption.


But in post #1, which you gave an "amen" to in post #2, you did effectively call out the entire medical field without qualification. 

Sorry, but you can't unsay what you said earlier.


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## Becky1951 (Sep 29, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> But in post #1, which you gave an "amen" to in post #2, you did effectively call out the entire medical field without qualification.
> 
> Sorry, but you can't unsay what you said earlier.



*"Sorry, but you can't unsay what you said earlier."*

Why not? The experts and science community is allowed to.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 29, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> But in post #1, which you gave an "amen" to in post #2, you did effectively call out the entire medical field without qualification.
> 
> Sorry, but you can't unsay what you said earlier.


How do you interpret my   to mean that I effectively called out the entire medical field without qualification? Isn't the statement "A patient cured is a patient lost" referring to Big Pharma?

I believe so.


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## WhatInThe (Oct 23, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> The whole US healthcare system is a crazy patchwork put together during WWII.  Companies couldn't always raise wages so they offered health insurance as a benefit.  Over time, companies became responsible for their workers' healthcare.  That makes no sense at all.
> 
> Entrenched interests including insurance companies and doctors want things to stay pretty much the way they are.
> 
> ...


Excellent points and posts. Especially offering benefits in lieu of higher pay. That scenario has played out in many a business or job. The employees not only get used to company provided or discounted insurance they get used to someone else doing the research and shopping for them. Many don't learn that necessity until our age. And yes big insurance and pharma have exploited 'group' plans because they know a government or business is paying for individual health insurance.  Somebody else is paying for syndrome.


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## Ruthanne (Oct 23, 2021)

There are medicines that cure too.  Look at the ones to cure Hep C.  They cure it.


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