# The Kim Potter Trial: should she go to prison?



## Irwin (Dec 9, 2021)

If incompetence were a crime, she should get a life sentence for pulling her 9mm instead of her taser. I'm just guessing it was a 9mm by the way, since that's the standard police issue handgun. I mean, how in the hell do you mistake a heavy firearm for plastic, yellow taser gun? She was probably just so freaked out about all the action that she panicked and pulled the wrong gun, and maybe her adrenaline was so elevated that it felt like a plastic gun.

Even if she had intentionally shot Daunte Wright with her 9mm, it seems like it would have been justified. He was a bad dude, fighting with the police and trying to get away. Driving off with officers halfway in the car could have put their lives in danger.

What bothers me most about her was her response after she realized she used deadly force on the 20 year old. She didn't try to render aid or call for an ambulance; instead, she said, "Oh my god. I'm going to prison for shooting him." Actually, that's paraphrased from what I remember her saying in the video. It might have been her exact words, but don't quote me on that even though I used quotes.

So my vote is... no jail time. What say you?


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 9, 2021)

The hanging tree.

Had Wright been white the cops would never have stopped him. They almost never do when a white person violates the law here in Minnesota. The biggest crime that exists here is the crime of being black. Drive a car, walk the streets,   hang your laundry out the window, read a newspaper on a public bench, ride the city bus,  pick your nose, whatever the f_____k you do, if you are black or brown you are automatically a criminal that needs to be stopped or hassled by the friggin cops.   Everybody who lives here knows it's the truth.  Anybody who denies it is full of s_____t.


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## dseag2 (Dec 9, 2021)

My personal feeling is that the situation was so intense she made a mistake and pulled her gun instead of her taser.  The perp was clearly resisting arrest.  I think he might have survived if he had just acquiesced, although we have so many young black men that have been killed even when they have been compliant.  I'm sure he was scared.

I'm not sure whether Kim Potter was emotional about killing him or about what she might face as a result.  My feelings are mixed. There is no reason Daunte Wright should have died for minor crimes.  I think Kim Potter should be convicted for some type of Manslaughter, but I agree with you that I don't think it will happen.


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## Pookie (Dec 9, 2021)

I think she didn't mean to pull her gun. I believe she may have panicked in the heat of the moment and maybe didn't realize which weapon she was pulling.

But you can't have a law enforcement officer that will panic, be overcome by the heat of the moment, and not be aware of which weapon they are ultimately using. 

Her actions were not appropriate, and of course, she must pay the price. She should get *at least* involuntary manslaughter with the maximum sentence allowed by law. 

But this case is quite volatile. We will see what happens. I'm guessing her sentence will be much harsher.


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## terry123 (Dec 10, 2021)

She should go to jail in my opinion.


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## Pookie (Dec 10, 2021)

She certainly will. There's no way she could be acquitted, for her actions were wrong.


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## Irwin (Dec 10, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> The hanging tree.
> 
> Had Wright been white the cops would never have stopped him. They almost never do when a white person violates the law here in Minnesota. The biggest crime that exists here is the crime of being black. Drive a car, walk the streets,   hang your laundry out the window, read a newspaper on a public bench, ride the city bus,  pick your nose, whatever the f_____k you do, if you are black or brown you are automatically a criminal that needs to be stopped or hassled by the friggin cops.   Everybody who lives here knows it's the truth.  Anybody who denies it is full of s_____t.


Wright was wanted for armed robbery and illegal possession of a firearm. There was a warrant out for his arrest because he failed to appear in court. Since he was known to carry guns, the police no doubt believed he was armed and dangerous. Add to that the fact that he fought with the police and tried to drive off with them hanging out of the vehicle. That's four strikes. Usually, you only get one strike with the police before they shoot you, especially when you're Black.


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## Aunt Bea (Dec 10, 2021)

This one is difficult for me.

I believe if Mr. Wright had complied with the officer's commands at the traffic stop he would still be alive.

I also believe Ms. Potter should be punished in some way.

A very sad situation for everyone involved.


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## OneEyedDiva (Dec 10, 2021)

_"Should she go to prison?" _YESSS!!!


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## rgp (Dec 10, 2021)

No jail ..........


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## Tom 86 (Dec 10, 2021)

*Everyone makes mistakes. * I know our sheriff says you only have a split second to make a decision.  Here the police wear their 9 MM Glock on their dominant arm side.  Tazer on the other side. We've even had younger male police officers here use the wrong gun in the heat of the moment.  They get demoted & no pay for three months.

  Some perps are also fighting with the police & the police use 2 or 3 tasers on the person. They are still fighting so their only choice is to use the 9 mm  If people would just comply & obey the police these things would never happen.  even if they are wanted just comply & you will live.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 10, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Wright was wanted for armed robbery and illegal possession of a firearm. There was a warrant out for his arrest because he failed to appear in court. Since he was known to carry guns, the police no doubt believed he was armed and dangerous. Add to that the fact that he fought with the police and tried to drive off with them hanging out of the vehicle. That's four strikes. Usually, you only get one strike with the police before they shoot you, especially when you're Black.




Cops stopped him because he was black, not because of his history.  Whites drive around with expired tags and with air fresheners all the time but never get stopped.  Had wright been white none of this would have happened.


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## Tom 86 (Dec 10, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Cops stopped him because he was black, not because of his history.  Whites drive around with expired tags and with air fresheners all the time but never get stopped.  Had wright been white none of this would have happened.


Not here in Indiana.  If you are white & have a warrant or a long rap sheet & known to carry weapons police will stop you but there are about 5 to 8 cars around.  They all have body cameras & they still make mistakes & shoot the perp.

  One guy (white) had been in & out of jail over 8 times.  Police arrested him the judge let him out. The last time a month ago he went & killed his 6-month-old baby & beat the mom so bad she is on life support in the hospital. When police "tried" to arrest him he had a gun in his pants & shot at them as they tried to put handcuffs on him.  So out came the 9 mm  & this time he will NOT go back to jail so the judge can let him out.  All this was captured on many guys/gals' body cameras.


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## Pepper (Dec 10, 2021)

Because in the tape her first thought after "oh, no I shot him" was about herself:  "oh no, I'm going to Prison" I hope she gets it right and spends at least some time to contemplate how/why she took a young guy's life.


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## Sunny (Dec 10, 2021)

Definition of manslaughter: “The unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought."

Seems to me that what she did was the perfect example of the crime of manslaughter. Of course she should go to prison.


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## Chet (Dec 10, 2021)

No doubt she panicked. Why? She wasn't appropriate police material perhaps. Women’s libbers have pushed women into some occupations where they may not belong. I know I would not want an emotional female by my side in a life or death situation. Whoever did the hiring had to meet a “quota” of women perhaps. (I’m not saying that all women can’t handle it.)

Anyway, I feel sorry for her. In any other job, a screw up would result in no more than getting fired. Of course I feel sorry for the victim and family. I along with many others did some regrettable things in our youth, but came out the other end wiser but still alive. 

I hope her punishment isn’t too severe. I also hope that the police department goes under the magnifying glass and has their hiring and training practices investigated.


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## hollydolly (Dec 10, 2021)

...but she didn't just kill her victim...she also screwed up the lives of the family who the victim crashed head on into when she shot him as he drove away... .... these people have been barely given a mention in the press.

I don't believe for a second an officer of 26 years wouldn't know her right from her left  side, or the feel of a gun a whole pound heavier than a Taser... I believe she knew exactly what she was doing, and thought she'd cover her backside by calling out 'taser' before shooting the victim


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 10, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> Not here in Indiana. If you are white & have a warrant or a long rap sheet & known to carry weapons police will stop you but there are about 5 to 8 cars around. They all have body cameras & they still make mistakes & shoot the perp.




Too bad he didn't move there instead of here.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 10, 2021)

Chet said:


> I also hope that the police department goes under the magnifying glass and has their hiring and training practices investigated.




Ironically at the time of this unhappy incident she was training a rookie cop.


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## garyt1957 (Dec 10, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> ...but she didn't just kill her victim...she also screwed up the lives of the family who the victim crashed head on into when she shot him as he drove away... .... these people have been barely given a mention in the press.
> 
> I don't believe for a second an officer of 26 years wouldn't know her right from her left  side, or the feel of a gun a whole pound heavier than a Taser... I believe she knew exactly what she was doing, and thought she'd cover her backside by calling out 'taser' before shooting the victim


Do you realize the vast majority of police officers never pull their guns in their ENTIRE careers? And 99% never fire them once. This isnt TJ Hooker reruns where the cop shoots people on a weekly basis.
   Mike Tyson once said " Everybody has a plan till they get punched in the face". You can practice all you want shooting/not shooting at cardboard pop ups and such, but you never know how you'll react when the shit hits the fan.
  I'm  good with whatever the  courts say she should get but the idea that this stuff is easy is laughable


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## garyt1957 (Dec 10, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Too bad he didn't move there instead of here.


Too bad he didn't just give in. Better outcome for everybody


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## rgp (Dec 10, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> *Everyone makes mistakes. * I know our sheriff says you only have a split second to make a decision.  Here the police wear their 9 MM Glock on their dominant arm side.  Tazer on the other side. We've even had younger male police officers here use the wrong gun in the heat of the moment.  They get demoted & no pay for three months.
> 
> Some perps are also fighting with the police & the police use 2 or 3 tasers on the person. They are still fighting so their only choice is to use the 9 mm  If people would just comply & obey the police these things would never happen.  even if they are wanted just comply & you will live.



 "Some perps are also fighting with the police & the police use 2 or 3 tasers on the person. They are still fighting so their only choice is to use the 9 mm If people would just comply & obey the police these things would never happen. even if they are wanted just comply & you will live."

 Exactly !!!


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## Irwin (Dec 10, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> Too bad he didn't just give in. Better outcome for everybody


He was wanted for armed robbery and unlawful possession of a firearm. Obviously, he didn't want to go to prison.

Really, this is a case of stupid vs. stupid. 
Wright had a warrant out for his arrest, yet he was driving around with expired plates. Kind of reminds me of Timothy McVeigh who might never have been caught if he wasn't driving a vehicle that didn't have license plates.
And Potter couldn't even tell the difference between a yellow plastic taser and her firearm.


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## Nathan (Dec 10, 2021)

Irwin said:


> ...how in the hell do you mistake a heavy firearm for plastic, yellow taser gun? She was probably just so freaked out about all the action that she panicked and pulled the wrong gun, and maybe her adrenaline was so elevated that it felt like a plastic gun.
> 
> So my vote is... no jail time. What say you?


No no no excuses, she is lying her a$$ off!   She trained in both the taser and 9mm extensively until the use of each was _second nature_.

Was she fearful?  Of course. Reaching for her 9mm would be understandable, even justified...but she chose to go with a cover-up.
She needs to serve some time, in the interest of justice...


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## Irwin (Dec 10, 2021)

Nathan said:


> No no no excuses, she is lying her a$$ off!   She trained in both the taser and 9mm extensively until the use of each was _second nature_.
> 
> Was she fearful?  Of course. Reaching for her 9mm would be understandable, even justified...but she chose to go with a cover-up.
> She needs to serve some time, in the interest of justice...


You think she intentionally shot him with her 9mm? I don't see what she would have to gain by doing that. The cost is that she may go to prison for many years.

Personally, I think her thinking was extremely muddled because of all the stress and she mistakenly shot him with her 9mm.


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## garyt1957 (Dec 10, 2021)

Irwin said:


> You think she intentionally shot him with her 9mm? I don't see what she would have to gain by doing that. The cost is that she may go to prison for many years.
> 
> Personally, I think her thinking was extremely muddled because of all the stress and she mistakenly shot him with her 9mm.


Exactly as I see it.


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## ohioboy (Dec 10, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Definition of manslaughter: “The unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought."
> 
> Seems to me that what she did was the perfect example of the crime of manslaughter. Of course she should go to prison.


She is charged with Second degree Manslaughter.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205


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## Don M. (Dec 10, 2021)

It seems that nearly every time there is a highly publicized police shooting, the "victim" was confrontational, and uncooperative.  if they just kept their mouths shut, raised their empty hands, and followed the cops instructions, such incidents would probably never happen.


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## garyt1957 (Dec 11, 2021)

Don M. said:


> It seems that nearly every time there is a highly publicized police shooting, the "victim" was confrontational, and uncooperative.  if they just kept their mouths shut, raised their empty hands, and followed the cops instructions, such incidents would probably never happen.


Amen


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## Irwin (Dec 11, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Definition of manslaughter: “The unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought."
> 
> Seems to me that what she did was the perfect example of the crime of manslaughter. Of course she should go to prison.


What was "unlawful" about the killing? Police are allowed to use deadly force in certain situations, and this may be one of these situations. Wright was fighting the police, he may have been armed, and he was trying to flee. Cops shoot people trying to flee all the time and it's ruled justified (or whatever the hell they rule when they say it's okay for the police to kill somebody).


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## Nathan (Dec 11, 2021)

Irwin said:


> *You think she intentionally shot him with her 9mm? *I don't see what she would have to gain by doing that. The cost is that she may go to prison for many years.
> 
> Personally, I think her thinking was extremely muddled because of all the stress and she mistakenly shot him with her 9mm.


That's just my opinion, given the level of training that most law enforcement officers are required to undergo.    I don't think that she wanted to _murder_ him, I think the level of fear she was experiencing fueled her action to use the handgun.


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## Tish (Dec 11, 2021)

It's not like she is a rookie, we are talking about a seasoned officer here.
I say send her to Jail.


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## garyt1957 (Dec 11, 2021)

Nathan said:


> That's just my opinion, given the level of training that most law enforcement officers are required to undergo.    I don't think that she wanted to _murder_ him, I think the level of fear she was experiencing fueled her action to use the handgun.


Again, 99% of police ever fire their guns their entire careers a vast majority never even pull their guns.  There's NO training that will come close to being in a real life or death situation. Unfortunately that's when we find out who will panic and who won't, but by then it's too late. I think she just panicked. Does that equal manslaughter? I'll let the legal scholars decide and except that decision. No way do I think she tried to shoot him.


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## Pepper (Dec 11, 2021)

This was from my memory, so I looked it up to see if I remembered correctly, and I did:

_*Tennessee v. Garner*_, 471 U.S. 1 (1985), is a civil case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that, under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, the officer may not use deadly force to prevent escape unless "the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

It was found that use of deadly force to prevent escape is an unreasonable seizure under the Fourth Amendment, in the absence of probable cause that the fleeing suspect posed a physical danger.

*So, why do we still have cases where the suspect is shot in the back, running away, etc.?*


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## garyt1957 (Dec 11, 2021)

Tish said:


> It's not like she is a rookie, we are talking about a seasoned officer here.
> I say send her to Jail.


A seasoned officer who has very likely never been in that situation before.  Doesn't matter how long you've been a cop if you've never been in that situation before, your just like a rookie.


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## Pepper (Dec 11, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> Does that equal manslaughter? I'll let the legal scholars decide and except that decision. No way do I think she tried to shoot him.


It will be a jury that decides.


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## garyt1957 (Dec 11, 2021)

Pepper said:


> *So, why do we still have cases where the suspect is shot in the back, running away, etc.?*


 In this case he wasn't just trying to drive away, but was reaching for something in the car. Correct me if I'm wrong. I agree police shouldn't shoot people in the back who are running away, unless that person is likely to harm other people, like a guy who opens fire in a mall for instance and if he isn't stopped he'll shoot more people.


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## garyt1957 (Dec 11, 2021)

Pepper said:


> It will be a jury that decides.


No kidding, but there will be expert testimony that will play a role in that decision.


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## ohioboy (Dec 11, 2021)

In Ohio it would be the = of Negligent or Reckless homicide depending on the facts by definition. In those examples, as in the Potter case, the homicide was not Justifiable. Potter can not be excused from legal culpability, the doctrine here "Mistake of fact" can not be argued as a defense.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 11, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> Too bad he didn't just give in. Better outcome for everybody




Too bad cops don't apply the law uniformly or we would have a better society.  Perhaps some day soon everybody will exercise their Second Amendment rights and keep the government off their backs just like our Founding Fathers believed in.  Let's have all our NRA pals chime in with their agreement.


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## ohioboy (Dec 11, 2021)

Pepper said:


> This was from my memory, so I looked it up to see if I remembered correctly, and I did:
> 
> _*Tennessee v. Garner*_, 471 U.S. 1 (1985), is a civil case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that, under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, the officer may not use deadly force to prevent escape unless "the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."
> 
> ...


The law does not say the fleeing suspect can not be shot in the back, period, it just needs to be justifiable. The Prosecuting Agency of the County then determines culpabilty.


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## Lawrence (Dec 11, 2021)

I believe that the police officer should not go to prison over this. This was a bad accident while in the line of duty for a police officer. Given the situation I believe the police officer should be allowed to return to the police force under supervision.


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## garyt1957 (Dec 11, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Too bad cops don't apply the law uniformly or we would have a better society.  Perhaps some day soon everybody will exercise their Second Amendment rights and keep the government off their backs just like our Founding Fathers believed in.  Let's have all our NRA pals chime in with their agreement.


I'm pretty sure anybody fighting an arrest will get the same treatment.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 11, 2021)

garyt1957 said:


> I'm pretty sure anybody fighting an arrest will get the same treatment.



You missed what I posted earlier -- had he been white the cops would have left him alone.  I went shopping yesterday and at least twice saw cars with air fresheners hanging from the mirrors.  Naturally, neither was stopped by the cops.  They never are around here.


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## Della (Dec 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> You missed what I posted earlier -- had he been white the cops would have left him alone.  I went shopping yesterday and at least twice saw cars with air fresheners hanging from the mirrors.  Naturally, neither was stopped by the cops.  They never are around here.


You keep saying that but where is your evidence?  My husband is white and from Minnesota, he's been stopped by the police.  I'm white and I was recently pulled over by the police for the same reason they pulled over Duante -- expired tags, he was not pulled over for the air freshener.  (My tags weren't really expired, the policeman just hadn't seen the new five year tags which were the same color as tags three years ago.)

The police initially pulled over Duante for his tags.  Then they ran his name and found out there was a warrant for his arrest and that he was known to be armed and dangerous. They got him out of the car and were starting to cuff him when he jerked away, got back in the car, and was starting to pull away while another officer was halfway through the passenger window trying to disable the vehicle.  Potter knew that officer's life would be in danger if Duante started to drive with him like that.

At that point Potter yelled, "Taser, Taser, Taser!"  as she was starting to reach for her Taser, she saw Duante reaching for something on the other side of his seat and thought it might be a gun. 

[ It's my guess that it was her brain thinking "gun" at that moment that caused her hand to pull the gun instead of the Taser. That's just my opinion because I've been known to mix up the coordination from my brain to my hand in ways like that in the past.]

After shooting him she went into shock saying, "OMG I shot him!"  Only then did Duante drive off.  She did not shoot at him after he drove off so I don't think she can be blamed for the car accident and the people he crashed into.

In his short life Duante had managed to get a girl pregnant, get a restraining order against him and shoot an innocent man in the neck during a robbery, leaving him paralyzed and unable to speak.  None of this experience seemed to bother him much.  He knew he was driving a car without a license, knew his tags were expired, and even knew that the air freshener he had hung from his rearview mirror was a violation of traffic law.  He just didn't seem to think the law applied to him, and he thought fighting with the police and fleeing the stop was a normal thing to do. 

I have to side with the law on this one.  Potter has already resigned from her job and shows no desire to ever be a police person again so I hope she gets off.


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## Tom 86 (Dec 12, 2021)

They have another cop body camera picture in our today's Sunday paper.  She looks like she is much older & confused in the picture.  Like what did I just do?


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## Tom 86 (Dec 12, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> You missed what I posted earlier -- had he been white the cops would have left him alone.  I went shopping yesterday and at least twice saw cars with air fresheners hanging from the mirrors.  Naturally, neither was stopped by the cops.  They never are around here.


What's with the air fresheners?  Around here people drive with dice, beads, air fresheners, & Handicap cards hanging from their inside mirror.  There is no law saying you can't do that here in Indiana.


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## Butterfly (Dec 12, 2021)

Chet said:


> No doubt she panicked. Why? She wasn't appropriate police material perhaps. Women’s libbers have pushed women into some occupations where they may not belong. I know I would not want an emotional female by my side in a life or death situation. Whoever did the hiring had to meet a “quota” of women perhaps. (I’m not saying that all women can’t handle it.)
> 
> Anyway, I feel sorry for her. In any other job, a screw up would result in no more than getting fired. Of course I feel sorry for the victim and family. I along with many others did some regrettable things in our youth, but came out the other end wiser but still alive.
> 
> I hope her punishment isn’t too severe. I also hope that the police department goes under the magnifying glass and has their hiring and training practices investigated.



Your misogyny is showing, Chet.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 12, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> What's with the air fresheners?  Around here people drive with dice, beads, air fresheners, & Handicap cards hanging from their inside mirror.  There is no law saying you can't do that here in Indiana.



they are illegal in Minnesota:  https://tinyurl.com/2kzje7du


  Fuzzy dice, pennants, elves, and other things are believed to pose a hazard to the public.  The problem isn't the law so much as is the continued inconsistent enforcement of the law here.  You see these things on cars all the time as thousands of motorists use them.  But let one black driver have one and the stupid cops suddenly decide the driver is a public menace.  

The expiration date of a tag is in tiny print on the right side of a license.  Operating an automobile on city streets requires a driver to keep his eyes on the road all the time. Take your eyes off the road for only a few seconds and you put the public in danger.  With all the traffic moving along, the cops have to have eyes like an eagle and take a deep look at a license in order to ascertain that the driver is using expired tags. In other words, they have to be targeting someone in order to be able to make such discernment. Targeting blacks is a specialty among these bigoted pieces of s____t. Small wonder why there are so many racial troubles in Minnesota.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 12, 2021)

Lawrence said:


> I believe that the police officer should not go to prison over this. This was a bad accident while in the line of duty for a police officer. Given the situation I believe the police officer should be allowed to return to the police force under supervision.




Three cops on an unarmed person and this constitutes an accident? Hmmmm ...

In Minnesota a cop can retire after 20 years on the force with a full pension.  Potter was a police supervisor with 26 years on the force which means she could have retired quite comfortably before this unhappy incident took place. Are you sure you want her back on the force?


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## ohioboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> What's with the air fresheners?  Around here people drive with dice, beads, air fresheners, & Handicap cards hanging from their inside mirror.  There is no law saying you can't do that here in Indiana.


If not "Specifically" defined, there may be reference to a blocked view of a rear view mirror or front glass as a catch all?


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## GAlady (Dec 12, 2021)

I think it was an incompetent mistake made by a policewoman.  She put her life on the line every day she worked.  No, she does not need to go to prison.


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## ohioboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> What's with the air fresheners?  Around here people drive with dice, beads, air fresheners, & Handicap cards hanging from their inside mirror.  There is no law saying you can't do that here in Indiana.


This is the most probable State law concerning that. Very possible some Municipalities have stricter/clearer elements.

https://law.justia.com/codes/indiana/2017/title-9/article-19/chapter-12/section-9-19-12-1/


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## AnnieA (Dec 12, 2021)

I'm going to hold off on speculating what her sentence should be until after the jury finds her guilty of one or both of the two manslaughter charges against her.


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## Chet (Dec 12, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Your misogyny is showing, Chet.


Not to the extreme I don't think. It's just that men and women are wired differently in my opinion and "_vive la différence"._


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## Irwin (Dec 12, 2021)

Della said:


> You keep saying that but where is your evidence?  My husband is white and from Minnesota, he's been stopped by the police.  I'm white and I was recently pulled over by the police for the same reason they pulled over Duante -- expired tags, he was not pulled over for the air freshener.  (My tags weren't really expired, the policeman just hadn't seen the new five year tags which were the same color as tags three years ago.)
> 
> The police initially pulled over Duante for his tags.  Then they ran his name and found out there was a warrant for his arrest and that he was known to be armed and dangerous. They got him out of the car and were starting to cuff him when he jerked away, got back in the car, and was starting to pull away while another officer was halfway through the passenger window trying to disable the vehicle.  Potter knew that officer's life would be in danger if Duante started to drive with him like that.
> 
> ...


Excellent summary of the facts in this case.


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## AnnieA (Dec 12, 2021)

Irwin said:


> You think she intentionally shot him with her 9mm? I don't see what she would have to gain by doing that. The cost is that she may go to prison for many years.
> 
> Personally, I think her thinking was extremely muddled because of all the stress and she mistakenly shot him with her 9mm.



Agreed.   In her years of training, she's been instructed a gazillion times to consider what the bullet could hit if it went through or missed the target.  In this case, she endangered both the passenger and the other officer. That's why it seems to be a mistake made in the heat of the moment.

Thanks to @ohioboy 's link above, my guess is that she'll won't be convicted of even the lesser charge--2nd degree manslaughter--due to the 609.205 (1) qualifying clause consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another. I've never had anything to do with a real life trial, don't watch trials or legal shows so may be interpreting this totally wrong, but the 'consciously' specification of the qualifying clause seems to be how she'll likely get off. Seems to be a too tall hurdle for the prosecution to convince all 12 jurors that she consciously pulled the gun instead of the taser.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 12, 2021)

There is a weird irony at work here.  I have watched the videotapes a couple of times and I think Potter might have been justified in shooting Wright.  He was a felon trying to escape, and he was endangering the life of an officer in the process.  

The problem is that by yelling "Taser" and then using her handgun (and then breaking down emotionally for doing so) Potter made herself look incompetent and opened the door to manslaughter charges.  If she had pulled her handgun and shot Wright without saying anything, there probably wouldn't be an issue.   I'm not saying that course of action was correct, just that she probably wouldn't have been prosecuted for it.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 12, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> They have another cop body camera picture in our today's Sunday paper.  She looks like she is much older & confused in the picture.  Like what did I just do?




I saw some of those post incident photos as well.  Kinda reminds me of Chuck Colson and  those Watergate guys who suddenly got an epiphany. They became born again Christians who conveniently  repented of their sins with the hope of winning over some mercy from the court. Well, it worked since he spent only 7 months in prison and paid pocket change as a fine for his crimes. You can bet this will happen to Potter as well with all the right wing political correctness that goes on nowadays.


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## ohioboy (Dec 14, 2021)

This case explains 609.205 a little.

Minn.Stat. § 609.19(1) (990). Second degree culpable negligence manslaughter is committed by one who causes the death of another * * * *328 (1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another.
Minn.Stat. § 609.205(1) (1990).

Barsness contends the mental state of intending to cause death is inconsistent with the mental state of consciously taking a chance of causing death. However, the statutory definition of intent is broader than this argument implies. The general definitions of mental state in the criminal code include the following:

"With intent to" * * * means that the actor either has a purpose to do the thing or cause the result specified or believes that the act, if successful, will cause that result.

https://law.justia.com/cases/minnesota/court-of-appeals/1991/c6-90-1882.html


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## Alligatorob (Dec 14, 2021)

Irwin said:


> The Kim Potter Trial: should she go to prison?


Depends on the facts of the case.  Always hard to know from media reports, hope the court does the right thing.


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## Pepper (Dec 14, 2021)

Rookie cop with her said didn't appear culprit had a gun or was reaching for a gun.  Saw this on yahoo.news this morning.  If so, a direct contradiction to Potter.


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## Irwin (Dec 14, 2021)

Today, jurors were shown the differences between a Taser and a handgun. They're going to wonder how in the hell she mistook one for the other.


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## Butterfly (Dec 15, 2021)

Lawrence said:


> I believe that the police officer should not go to prison over this. This was a bad accident while in the line of duty for a police officer. Given the situation I believe the police officer should be allowed to return to the police force under supervision.


If she is found not guilty, I strongly feel that she should not be allowed to return to the police force.  Anybody who cannot maintain their cool in a stressful situation (and/or who can't tell the difference between a taser in her hand and a firearm in her hand) has absolutely no business being turned loose on the public with a firearm.


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## Butterfly (Dec 15, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Today, jurors were shown the differences between a Taser and a handgun. They're going to wonder how in the hell she mistook one for the other.


 And well that they should wonder.  There is also a fairly significant weight difference, as I understand it.  The "feel" of the thing in her hand would be significantly different.


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## ohioboy (Dec 15, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> If she is found not guilty, I strongly feel that she should not be allowed to return to the police force.  Anybody who cannot maintain their cool in a stressful situation (and/or who can't tell the difference between a taser in her hand and a firearm in her hand) has absolutely no business being turned loose on the public with a firearm.


If convicted, as a Felon, she can not own/carry a weapon. This is not to say she could not be/return in a civil position.


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## Della (Dec 15, 2021)

She voluntarily resigned from the force a few days after the incident, I doubt if she would ever want to return to that job, right now she probably regrets the day she joined.

I just read somewhere that unintentional manslaughter usually gets 4 to 7 years, but since Chauvin got an extra ten years tacked on to his sentence (bringing his total to 22 years) she might get extra time added, too.

It's another topic but I don't agree with police officers getting more time than other perpetrators.


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## Geezer Garage (Dec 15, 2021)

I think the big thing people miss, is that in most of these situations the smart thing to do, may be to just step away and let the perp go, and get him in a safer location, under much safer conditions. Not saying this would work in every case, but in many cases it would save innocent lives. As in many things, patience is a virtue. This is especially true in high speed chases, get the license number, and back off, and have him picked up by an unmarked car, or a helicopter. There are an amazing number of people killed, and seriously injured in these totally unnecessary chases, including many people not directly involved.  Mike


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## Irwin (Dec 15, 2021)

Geezer Garage said:


> I think the big thing people miss, is that in most of these situations the smart thing to do, may be to just step away and let the perp go, and get him in a safer location, under much safer conditions. Not saying this would work in every case, but in many cases it would save innocent lives. As in many things, patience is a virtue. This is especially true in high speed chases, get the license number, and back off, and have him picked up by an unmarked car, or a helicopter. There are an amazing number of people killed, and seriously injured in these totally unnecessary chases, including many people not directly involved.  Mike


I often wonder why they don't just shoot and flatten the tires so the perpetrator can't drive off, after which time they could just wait until he's ready to give up. Or maybe they need some kind of boot that they can attach to the wheel to render the car undrivable. Or they could attach something to the steering wheel so it couldn't turn to render the car undrivable.

It just seems like there are all sorts of ways to subdue a suspect that don't involve hurting him.


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## Geezer Garage (Dec 15, 2021)

Della, the thing about police, like teachers, and others who are held to a higher standard, as those "in a position of trust". Mike


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## rgp (Dec 15, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I often wonder why they don't just shoot and flatten the tires so the perpetrator can't drive off, after which time they could just wait until he's ready to give up. Or maybe they need some kind of boot that they can attach to the wheel to render the car undrivable. Or they could attach something to the steering wheel so it couldn't turn to render the car undrivable.
> 
> It just seems like there are all sorts of ways to subdue a suspect that don't involve hurting him.



 Really ? ....... And just what would all those sorts of ways be.


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## fmdog44 (Dec 15, 2021)

To me there is no way in hell she can't tell the difference between one weapon and another. It is another of many episodes of citizens refusing to obey the commands of the police. No sympathy for White.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 15, 2021)

fmdog44 said:


> It is another of many episodes of citizens refusing to obey the commands of the police.




cops do not have the right to impose a double standard on people - had the victim been white he would never have been stopped - went shopping today and again saw a couple of white drivers with fuzzy dice and other crap on their rear view mirrors.  nobody stopped them, naturally


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## Della (Dec 16, 2021)

Geezer Garage said:


> Della, the thing about police, like teachers, and others who are held to a higher standard, as those "in a position of trust". Mike


I understand that, but there's also the added stress of dealing with dozens of volatile situations every day, some of them involving dangerous weapons and violent people.  Teachers don't often have to wrestle a huge man to the ground while he's kicking and struggling and still be expected to keep cool and always make good decisions.  I think it's too much to ask that they be put in situations involving guns day after day and then be punished more than anyone else when something goes wrong.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 16, 2021)

Della said:


> I understand that, but there's also the added stress of dealing with dozens of volatile situations every day, some of them involving dangerous weapons and violent people.  Teachers don't often have to wrestle a huge man to the ground while he's kicking and struggling and still be expected to keep cool and always make good decisions.  I think it's too much to ask that they be put in situations involving guns day after day and then be punished more than anyone else when something goes wrong.



There were three cops, Wright had his back turned to the cops, was running away because he perceived a threat. He did not pose an immediate threat to the cops because he was clearly unarmed.


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## Butterfly (Dec 17, 2021)

Della said:


> I understand that, but there's also the added stress of dealing with dozens of volatile situations every day, some of them involving dangerous weapons and violent people.  Teachers don't often have to wrestle a huge man to the ground while he's kicking and struggling and still be expected to keep cool and always make good decisions.  I think it's too much to ask that they be put in situations involving guns day after day and then be punished more than anyone else when something goes wrong.



Ono the contrary, believe they MUST be held to a higher standard BECAUSE they are entrusted with the authority to use a gun when necessary -- "necessary" being the operative word.   With that authority comes the responsibility to use the authority wisely.  If they do not have the cool headed ability to do that, they shouldn't be on the streets as a police officer.  They have other people's lives in their hands every day, and that's a huge responsibility.


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## Pepper (Dec 17, 2021)

I believe she will get off.  I was watching her testify just now.  I don't see how it can be proved she had intent.  I believe she was eminently unqualified to be an officer.  Ever.


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## Gaer (Dec 17, 2021)

Did you watch her overcome with emotion?  You KNOW this was an accident!  Her tears were REAL!
She is credible and has intense remorse!  My heart goes out to her!
The prosecutor was relentless!  The chaos of the arrest affected her motor skills, IMO.
It's my hope she will be exonerated or at least a minor manslaughter charge..  
She didn't mean to hurt anyone!  IMO  Remember?  She yelled out "Taser! Taser!  Taser!?


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## Pepper (Dec 17, 2021)

I too @Gaer, believed her testimony to be genuine, and proves to me beyond doubt she was not only not qualified, but not well trained to be an officer in the first place.

Any lawsuit by the family should be easily won or settled quickly.


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## Gaer (Dec 17, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I too @Gaer, believed her testimony to be genuine, and proves to me beyond doubt she was not only not qualified, but not well trained to be an officer in the first place.
> 
> Any lawsuit by the family should be easily won or settled quickly.


I would not say she was unqualified.  She spent 26 years as a dutiful good officer in an extremely high-stress job, and one day, makes an error in judgement in a fast-moving, chaotic action, IMO, does not vanquish the day after day 26 years of service.  We all make mistakes.
If paths of our own lives had been different, we could have been in her predicament ourselves.  I'm not going to judge her years of being an officer.  I was married to a law enforcement officer. I know some of what they endure, and am in awe!


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## Pepper (Dec 17, 2021)

The prosecutor got her to admit that she had NEVER ever been in charge of a situation like this in those 26 years.  The other officer with her, probably male, took over for her.  Covered her job, I think it was @Chet who said that.

She probably mostly did the woman stuff most of her career.  Filing?  Social type work?  When a soft unthreatening voice was needed?  It appears she was sheltered from the tough cop stuff.


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## J-Kat (Dec 17, 2021)

I admit I have not followed this case closely.  It appeared to me that she had the young man out of the car but I never saw that he was secured in any way (minimally having his hands on top of car, feet spread) or handcuffed.  That was a big mistake as it gave him the opportunity to move around and try to get back in the car and she lost control of him and the situation.  Poorly trained, as so many in law enforcement are these days, to think that the only resolution if you lose control is to shoot with your gun or a taser. I doubt she will be convicted.


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## AnnieA (Dec 17, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Did you watch her overcome with emotion?  You KNOW this was an accident!  Her tears were REAL!


Dunno if she cried more than once.  In the clip I saw when her attorney questioned her,  her face was scrunched up, her voice broke but there were no tears.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 17, 2021)

Crocodile tears won't bring back her victim whose child remains fatherless.  If she is truly remorse let's see her offer at least half of her big fat taxpayer financed pension to the child so that he can get his medical, food, and educational costs covered for the rest of his childhood.


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## Butterfly (Dec 17, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I too @Gaer, believed her testimony to be genuine, and proves to me beyond doubt she was not only not qualified, but not well trained to be an officer in the first place.
> 
> Any lawsuit by the family should be easily won or settled quickly.



That would depend on whether her state has qualified immunity for police officers.


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## dseag2 (Dec 17, 2021)

I would have felt really sorry for her when she was crying had she not said in the original video, "Oh my god.  I'm going to prison".  Seemed like she was more distraught about that than about killing someone.  Only my opinion, but I think it was an accident.  That said, drunk drivers who kill someone in a car accident don't set out to do so on purpose but they are still convicted.


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## ohioboy (Dec 17, 2021)

"Oh my God, I'm going to prison" may be considered as what is known as an "Excited utterance". A human reaction in such a situation is not necessarily an adoptive admission of sorts of guilt.


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## Irwin (Dec 17, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> "Oh my God, I'm going to prison" may be considered as what is known as an "Excited utterance". A human reaction in such a situation is not necessarily an adoptive admission of sorts of guilt.


I remember "excited utterances" in my younger days.


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## ohioboy (Dec 17, 2021)

Irwin said:


> I remember "excited utterances" in my younger days.


You dog you.


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## Della (Dec 18, 2021)

J-Kat said:


> I admit I have not followed this case closely.  It appeared to me that she had the young man out of the car but I never saw that he was secured in any way (minimally having his hands on top of car, feet spread) or handcuffed.  That was a big mistake as it gave him the opportunity to move around and try to get back in the car and she lost control of him and the situation.  Poorly trained, as so many in law enforcement are these days, to think that the only resolution if you lose control is to shoot with your gun or a taser. I doubt she will be convicted.


The other officer at the stop was a large male.  He had Wright out of the car facing the car with his hands behind him while the officer was trying to cuff him -- it was at that point that Wright pulled away and jumped back in the car.  It was the male office who lost control not Potter.


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## Butterfly (Dec 19, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I believe she will get off.  I was watching her testify just now.  I don't see how it can be proved she had intent.  I believe she was eminently unqualified to be an officer.  Ever.


Second degree manslaughter does not require intent.  Drunk drivers generally do not intend to kill anyone, either.


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## J-Kat (Dec 20, 2021)

I watched her testimony on You Tube.  She seemed to have been very well coached and prepared.  I feel somewhat sorry for her.  Her life is ruined no matter what the outcome of the trial.  But, a young man's life ended tragically due to her negligence.  Just a bad deal all the way around for everyone.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 20, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I believe she will get off.  I was watching her testify just now.  I don't see how it can be proved she had intent.  I believe she was eminently unqualified to be an officer.  Ever.


Couldn't agree with you more.  Some people aren't cut out for police work.  How this woman spent 26 years on the force is beyond me.  Not just her stupid mistake but her post-event blubbering and out-of-control courtroom behavior.


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## JimBob1952 (Dec 20, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Second degree manslaughter does not require intent.  Drunk drivers generally do not intend to kill anyone, either.


 Yes, but they intend to get drunk, and then put themselves behind the wheel.  Not the same thing at all.


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## Butterfly (Dec 21, 2021)

JimBob1952 said:


> Yes, but they intend to get drunk, and then put themselves behind the wheel.  Not the same thing at all.


It is fairly similar. It's acting recklessly which results in someone's death.   Or like hitting someone in a fight and that person goes on to die.  

The question of "intent" does not even arise in second degree manslaughter, anyway.  The prosecution is not arguing that the officer intended to kill Wright.  The question is whether Potter's reckless or negligent behavior caused the death of Duante Wright, and I believe the answer clearly is yes.


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## dseag2 (Dec 21, 2021)

Looks like it may be a Hung Jury because the jury has asked what happens if they can't reach consensus.  Not surprising, since this is such a controversial case.  We'll see.


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## ohioboy (Dec 23, 2021)

Verdict announcement within the hour.


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## Gemma (Dec 23, 2021)

Guilty on both charges.


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## ohioboy (Dec 23, 2021)

Guilty of first and second degree manslaughter.


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## JaniceM (Dec 23, 2021)

What some don't seem to realize is behind the uniforms and badges they are human beings, and human beings can make mistakes...


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## ohioboy (Dec 23, 2021)

JaniceM said:


> What some don't seem to realize is behind the uniforms and badges they are human beings, and human beings can make mistakes...


That is why there are degrees of homicide.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

I refused to buy her crocodile tears and so did the jury.  Imagine if anyone was stupid enough to believe her garbage - it would set a precedent where every cop would now find a ready excuse to cry to the jury and get off scot free. Don't know how long she will be in jail but to me a jail sentence is not enough.  The gas chamber is the only possible solution as far as I'm concerned.  Had it been the reverse I would have called for the same. Indeed, had it been a crook who croaked a cop, that's what just about everyone would be saying.


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## ohioboy (Dec 23, 2021)

Gas chamber??


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## Don M. (Dec 23, 2021)

IMO, Both parties were to blame for this shooting.....the belligerent "victim" who already had an arrest warrant outstanding, And the cop who was so dumb she didn't know the difference between her pistol and her taser.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Gas chamber??




Still used in three states.  It cleanses society of murderous scum like her and the like.


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## Gaer (Dec 23, 2021)

What kind of people ARE YOU?
I can picture all of you in the dark ages, screaming "GUILOTINE!"


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## win231 (Dec 23, 2021)

She was found guilty on all charges.
I'm not surprised, especially after jurors requested both her gun & the taser to see the difference in weight & feel.
The Taser is much lighter than a loaded Glock.
I'm familiar with the Glock, having competed with several.  In 9mm, it holds 17 rounds & when loaded, it is much heavier than a Taser.  A Taser weighs 8 ounces.  A fully-loaded Glock weighs 2 lbs.   Jurors probably couldn't see how she mistook one for the other with that much difference in weight, plus the different grip & the fact that the two weapons are carried on opposite sides of the duty belt.


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## ohioboy (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Still used in three states.  It cleanses society of murderous scum like her and the like.


Non abrogation of a method of execution does not mean it is used, it means it is still available, we have an 8th AM you know. In addition, you are a callous individual concerning your beliefs.


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## win231 (Dec 23, 2021)

Don M. said:


> IMO, Both parties were to blame for this shooting.....the belligerent "victim" who already had an arrest warrant outstanding, And the cop who was so dumb she didn't know the difference between her pistol and her taser.


Absolutely.  I can't think of anything more stupid than struggling with police.


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## Jace (Dec 23, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Guilty of first and second degree manslaughter.


I figured "as much".


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> Non abrogation of a method of execution does not mean it is used, it means it is still available, we have an 8th AM you know. In addition, you are a callous individual concerning your beliefs.




not really - just consistent

Others applaud invading two foreign countries and killing off one million innocent victims.  I do not.  On the contrary, I say those who started the wars should be brought to justice.  Allowing any one to commit such inhuman crimes is not human nor just.


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## hollydolly (Dec 23, 2021)

I said it right from the beginning... no chance she didn't do this purposely... and I was right... the jury saw through her little girl lost act... . As a police officer of 26 years she's been in court giving evidence  enough times to know what kind of act sways a jury...didn't work this time tho', and rightly so...


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## Pepper (Dec 23, 2021)

The jury reached the right verdict, IMO, but I'm feeling sad about the whole dumb incident.   What is done can't be undone.


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## Della (Dec 23, 2021)

Twenty six years as an officer on patrol with a perfect record.  She never once shot her gun or even tased anyone and not a single complaint was ever brought against her.  She was so good at her job she was a trainer and she was training Officer Luckey that day.  It was Luckey who made the mistake of trying to cuff Wright too close to the open car door.  Potter didn't want to correct him in front of people but she moved closer to help just as Wright broke away and jumped back  in the car.  Potter feared for the life of the third officer who was leaning inside the passenger window and called "Taser!."  She pulled her gun and shot Wright.

What reason would she have, after 26 years of dealing nicely with the public, to suddenly want to deliberately shoot someone?  She knew it would mean the end of her career and possibly prison.  I believe it was an accident.

In this climate, who would ever want to be a police person?  Every day you will have to face dangerous, possibly armed, people in all states of drug and alcohol abuse and if a situation ever gets out of hand, you can trust that the public you have been defending will side with the criminal.


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## oldpeculier (Dec 23, 2021)

Nobody won here. She made a terrible mistake and will pay a hefty price. It's just sad.


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## peppermint (Dec 23, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I too @Gaer, believed her testimony to be genuine, and proves to me beyond doubt she was not only not qualified, but not well trained to be an officer in the first place.
> 
> Any lawsuit by the family should be easily won or settled quickly.


She was a police lady for more then 25 years......She never even shot a gun, only for practice.........It was a mistake....The guy was trying to get away...It was a slipp.....And he should of been in jail before that.......Look it up before you read............


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 23, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Ono the contrary, believe they MUST be held to a higher standard BECAUSE they are entrusted with the authority to use a gun when necessary -- "necessary" being the operative word.   With that authority comes the responsibility to use the authority wisely.  If they do not have the cool headed ability to do that, they shouldn't be on the streets as a police officer.  They have other people's lives in their hands every day, and that's a huge responsibility.


I completely agree.  Today the jury came to just verdict.  May the deceased rest peacefully, sympathy to his family.


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## peppermint (Dec 23, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Did you watch her overcome with emotion?  You KNOW this was an accident!  Her tears were REAL!
> She is credible and has intense remorse!  My heart goes out to her!
> The prosecutor was relentless!  The chaos of the arrest affected her motor skills, IMO.
> It's my hope she will be exonerated or at least a minor manslaughter charge..
> She didn't mean to hurt anyone!  IMO  Remember?  She yelled out "Taser! Taser!  Taser!?


Yes....a mistake.....Sorry to say, he was a loser.....He should of been in jail......They just let him go free.....
I cry for her......


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## ohioboy (Dec 23, 2021)

Scenario. She draws her tazer, shoots him in the eye killing him, no gun involved, so that mistake can' be argued. Is the same verdict predicted?


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## win231 (Dec 23, 2021)

Gaer said:


> Did you watch her overcome with emotion?  You KNOW this was an accident!  Her tears were REAL!
> She is credible and has intense remorse!  My heart goes out to her!
> The prosecutor was relentless!  The chaos of the arrest affected her motor skills, IMO.
> It's my hope she will be exonerated or at least a minor manslaughter charge..
> She didn't mean to hurt anyone!  IMO  Remember?  She yelled out "Taser! Taser!  Taser!?


I might be overcome with emotion if I was facing prison, too.


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## peppermint (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I refused to buy her crocodile tears and so did the jury.  Imagine if anyone was stupid enough to believe her garbage - it would set a precedent where every cop would now find a ready excuse to cry to the jury and get off scot free. Don't know how long she will be in jail but to me a jail sentence is not enough.  The gas chamber is the only possible solution as far as I'm concerned.  Had it been the reverse I would have called for the same. Indeed, had it been a crook who croaked a cop, that's what just about everyone would be saying.


You are wrong.....I don't know who you are, but I hope you never have to go to jail......That's all I will say....
...Even though I don't know you....and will never know you..................................But I have to say, you are nasty........


----------



## peppermint (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Still used in three states.  It cleanses society of murderous scum like her and the like.





Gaer said:


> What kind of people ARE YOU?
> I can picture all of you in the dark ages, screaming "GUILOTINE!"


I'm with you, Gear.......


----------



## Ruthanne (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Cops stopped him because he was black, not because of his history.  Whites drive around with expired tags and with air fresheners all the time but never get stopped.  Had wright been white none of this would have happened.


In my city cops will stop anyone for expired tags or anything.  "Whites" don't get away with all you think.  I was stopped for turning about 100 feet in front of a cruiser.  I didn't break the law-I was legal.  I was given a total interrogation on the street.  They saw I was just taking my dog to the park.


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## Irwin (Dec 23, 2021)

Now that she's been found guilty, what should be the punishment for her gross incompetence?

Personally, I don't believe she had any malicious intentions, whatsoever. She was just afraid and not thinking clearly while trying to get an extremely dangerous situation under control. I wouldn't give her more than a year.


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## Pepper (Dec 23, 2021)

ThoughtfulRN said:


> *I have to side with the law* on this one. Potter has already resigned from her job and shows no desire to ever be a police person again so I hope she gets off.


The Law has spoken.


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## Gemma (Dec 23, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Now that she's been found guilty, what should be the punishment for her gross incompetence?
> 
> Personally, I don't believe she had any malicious intentions, whatsoever. She was just afraid and not thinking clearly while trying to get an extremely dangerous situation under control. I wouldn't give her more than a year.


Probably 6-8 years.

Afraid and not thinking clearly?  She definitely wasn't thinking clearly to place another officer and the passenger in the vehicle in danger, when she fired the shot into the vehicle, that killed Duante. It was testified to, that her spent casing hit her fellow officer in the face too when ejected from her firearm.. 

Potter was a field training officer...this killing should provide an opening for addressing how officers are trained, and how they are held accountable when that training fails.  And, IMO, the rookies she trained, should be re-trained.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> In my city cops will stop anyone for expired tags or anything.  "Whites" don't get away with all you think.  I was stopped for turning about 100 feet in front of a cruiser.  I didn't break the law-I was legal.  I was given a total interrogation on the street.  They saw I was just taking my dog to the park.




The idiot cops here in the Twin Cities should follow the example set by your cops.


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## Ruthanne (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> The idiot cops here in the Twin Cities should follow the example set by your cops.


I don't think so!  They go overboard here!


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

peppermint said:


> You are wrong.....I don't know who you are, but I hope you never have to go to jail......That's all I will say....
> ...Even though I don't know you....and will never know you..................................But I have to say, you are nasty........




If someone like Derek Chauvin or Potter  killed you I would have said the same thing.  Obviously you have the luxury of not being black or brown like me.  Even at my age I still get cops stopping me and demanding to inspect the bags I'm carrying or asking what the hell I'm doing in a building or neighborhood.  Imagine that happening to you.  Now imagine your peers or their children (or your children) facing a bullet even though they were innocent.   Previously I wrote of a time I was reaching for a candy bar in my pocket and there was a cop near me reaching for his gun.  Just imagine having to live with the fear that something like that can happen to you at any time.  That's what I and others have to go through every day.   

Criminally racist punks like Mark Fuhrman, Stacey Koon, and Derek Chauvin have been getting away with crimes like these for decades.  These crimes have cost the cities hundreds of millions of dollars and and cause an incredible amount of social division.  How much longer must we as a society continue to put up with this nonsense when it could be stopped overnight by simply applying the law to these police criminals exactly the way we do to everyone else?


----------



## Ruthanne (Dec 23, 2021)

Kim Potter may have been suffering from burnout or PTSD as many, many police officers are.  I think there needs to be routine screening of police officers to see how they are doing emotionally/mentally and if they are still capable of doing their jobs.  I don't believe it is being done in many police departments as they seem to be too busy trying to keep officers on the job.


----------



## Tabby Ann (Dec 23, 2021)

I think this verdict sends a bad message to police officers that says if anyone wants to resist arrest, the officer should just let him run away. Frankly, I don’t want criminals running freely through my neighborhood, but it has come to that.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> I don't think so!  They go overboard here!




Just a reminder that much of the racial social divide that we have in the USA originated here in the Twin Cities. Nobody goes overboard more than they do and gleefully get away with it every year.  Hopefully, today's news is the start of a change for the better.


----------



## ohioboy (Dec 23, 2021)

Tabby Ann said:


> I think this verdict sends a bad message to police officers that says if anyone wants to resist arrest, the officer should just let him run away. Frankly, I don’t want criminals running freely through my neighborhood, but it has come to that.


"Indiana wants me, Lord I can't go back there".


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

Tabby Ann said:


> I think this verdict sends a bad message to police officers that says if anyone wants to resist arrest, the officer should just let him run away. Frankly, I don’t want criminals running freely through my neighborhood, but it has come to that.


 

Or it can also serve to tell cops to apply the law on a uniform basis. As I wrote previously, had Daunte Wright been white the cops would never have stopped him as he was stopped for having fuzzy dice in violation of the law.  Hundreds of white drivers do that every day and not one is ever stopped.


----------



## peppermint (Dec 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> I might be overcome with emotion if I was facing prison, too.





SeaBreeze said:


> .





oldpeculier said:


> Nobody won here. She made a terrible mistake and will pay a hefty price. It's just sad.





Gaer said:


> What kind of people ARE YOU?
> I can picture all of you in the dark ages, screaming "GUILOTINE!"


I love you.....Gear.....I'm with you.....P.......I cried for that lady.....She never shot anyone in her 25 or how many years......
I hope anyone here are


oldiebutgoody said:


> I refused to buy her crocodile tears and so did the jury.  Imagine if anyone was stupid enough to believe her garbage - it would set a precedent where every cop would now find a ready excuse to cry to the jury and get off scot free. Don't know how long she will be in jail but to me a jail sentence is not enough.  The gas chamber is the only possible solution as far as I'm concerned.  Had it been the reverse I would have called for the same. Indeed, had it been a crook who croaked a cop, that's what just about everyone would be saying.


OK....The hudlum was trying to get away....He had a record and the police were going to bring him to the station.....They were not going
to kill him....He got crazy.....He tried to get out of there....But the police knew he had a record.....they just wanted to take him to the police
station to calm him down.....And whatever they needed to do......The lady never killed anyone in her 25 or more years....It was a slip....the
stupid hudlum tried to get the police lady......He was stupid....All he had to do is go to the station and probably let him go.....But really
he had someting in his car.....    I hope oldiebutgoody watch what you say.....You don't know what you are talking about.....
Don't tell me about cops.....I have many of them......I've had some die iin my family....Police.....Just because someone didn't like police
and they shoot them....So watch out what you say....................................................................I'm done.................................


----------



## hollydolly (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> If someone like Derek Chauvin or Potter  killed you I would have said the same thing.  Obviously you have the luxury of not being black or brown like me. * Even at my age I still get cops stopping me and demanding to inspect the bags I'm carrying or asking what the hell I'm doing in a building or neighborhood.  Imagine that happening to you.*


That's hearbreaking, frightening and appalling if you're being stopped and questioned due to your colour at any age.. particularly when you're a senior.. just out of curiosity how old are you ?


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

peppermint said:


> I love you.....Gear.....I'm with you.....P.......I cried for that lady.....She never shot anyone in her 25 or how many years......
> I hope anyone here are
> 
> OK....The hudlum was trying to get away....He had a record and the police were going to bring him to the station.....They were not going
> ...





I live in the Twin Cities and have observed everything I've written about.  You have not.   All they had to do was to apply the law on a uniform basis and the incident would not have taken place just as with George Floyd.  She was the stupid one, not the victim.

As for having cops in the family, I have four. Only one remains in the service as the others retired. None of the cops I mentioned were shot.  It is likely that fewer cops would get shot in this society if cops obeyed the law rather than abuse it.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> That's hearbreaking, frightening and appalling if you're being stopped and questioned due to your colour at any age.. particularly when you're a senior.. just out of curiosity how old are you ?




Age 70.  While my hair is all white I'm told that I look a bit younger.


----------



## peppermint (Dec 23, 2021)

hollydolly said:


> That's hearbreaking, frightening and appalling if you're being stopped and questioned due to your colour at any age.. particularly when you're a senior.. just out of curiosity how old are you ?


So....My husband was stopped because he went around a car and a cop stopped him...
He asked for my husband where he lived....My husband said 2 blocks....whats your name!
He said his name....He asked how many years you live here....My husband said 45 years....
Then he said, it seems you have a son....husband said yes.....Oh....I know who he is...
He is a school teacher....Yes......That was the only time a cop stop my husband......


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

peppermint said:


> only time




Good for him.  I've been stopped multiple times.  I cannot honestly put a number on the amount of times it has happened over the years. And you never know when one of those SOB's is drunk or high on drugs and if they will be looking for an excuse to put a bullet in you.


----------



## hollydolly (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Age 70.  While my hair is all white I'm told that I look a bit younger.


but even so... you most probably still look like an upstanding adult


----------



## Irwin (Dec 23, 2021)

Gemma said:


> Probably 6-8 years.
> 
> Afraid and not thinking clearly?  She definitely wasn't thinking clearly to place another officer and the passenger in the vehicle in danger, when she fired the shot into the vehicle, that killed Duante. It was testified to, that her spent casing hit her fellow officer in the face too when ejected from her firearm..
> 
> Potter was a field training officer...this killing should provide an opening for addressing how officers are trained, and how they are held accountable when that training fails.  And, IMO, the rookies she trained, should be re-trained.


Retraining seems to be the answer to all police wrongdoings. Obviously, if somebody doesn't have any common sense and is grossly incompetent, all the retraining in the world isn't going to solve anything.

Maybe what's needed are higher standards for police officer hiring, but since there's a shortage of police, so that's not going to happen. Instead, standards will be lowered so they can fill positions.

Or maybe what's needed is societal reform so there aren't so many criminals, like maybe provide a way to get out of poverty without committing crimes. That's not going to happen because that's socialism!

You're probably pretty close with 6-8 years. We'll find out in February.


----------



## hollydolly (Dec 23, 2021)

THE MINNESOTA WOMEN'S PRISON WHERE KIM POTTER WILL SERVE OUT HER SENTENCE FOR MANSLAUGHTER...​






shakopee prison


----------



## win231 (Dec 23, 2021)

Gaer said:


> What kind of people ARE YOU?
> I can picture all of you in the dark ages, screaming "GUILOTINE!"


Yes, who *ARE* you people?


----------



## Gemma (Dec 23, 2021)

Why was she smiling at processing to the prison?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474134961057898502


----------



## win231 (Dec 23, 2021)

Gemma said:


> Probably 6-8 years.
> 
> Afraid and not thinking clearly?  She definitely wasn't thinking clearly to place another officer and the passenger in the vehicle in danger, when she fired the shot into the vehicle, that killed Duante. It was testified to, that her spent casing hit her fellow officer in the face too when ejected from her firearm..
> 
> Potter was a field training officer...this killing should provide an opening for addressing how officers are trained, and how they are held accountable when that training fails.  And, IMO, the rookies she trained, should be re-trained.


If you're not a "gun person," a spent casing always ejects from any auto pistol or rifle with each shot.  A high-pressure cartridge like the 9mm will product a hot casing, but not hot enough to really cause serious injury, except in the unprotected eye.


----------



## Gemma (Dec 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> If you're not a "gun person," a spent casing always ejects from any auto pistol or rifle with each shot.  A high-pressure cartridge like the 9mm will product a hot casing, but not hot enough to really cause serious injury, except in the unprotected eye.


Gun person?  lol  I'm well aware of how spent casings eject @win231.

The "officer" testified he was hit by it because she was that close to him when she fired.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Maybe what's needed are higher standards for police officer hiring, but since there's a shortage of police, so that's not going to happen. Instead, standards will be lowered so they can fill positions.





Depending on whose statistics or sociological reports you choose to believe, there has been talk over the years that 50% of all crime in the USA is drug related.  Simple solution: de-criminalize drugs.  That would empty out the jails in half.  Create drug clinics/hospitals for those addicted instead of jails. That will eliminate drug lords, urban drugs gangs, corrupt cops who are on the take from druggies, greatly reduce street crimes associated with drugs, and help make for a  better society. As always, however, political pundits of a certain persuasion refuse to impose this change and society remains screwed because of such stupidity.  If anything this will lead to the hiring of fewer cops for the simple reason that with reduced crime, fewer cops would be needed.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

Gemma said:


> Why was she smiling at processing to the prison?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474134961057898502





She's smiling at the fact she's going to a country club prison where she will get luxurious meals three times a day.


----------



## Gemma (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> She's smiling at the fact she's going to a country club prison where she will get luxurious meals three times a day.


It ticked me off to see her sh*t eating grin on her face while processed.

Hopefully, this prison is just a place to hold her over until she's sentenced in February.


----------



## Ruthanne (Dec 23, 2021)

Gemma said:


> Why was she smiling at processing to the prison?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474134961057898502


I wonder how many people have smiled when they felt like shit...or really awful?  Have you?


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> If someone like Derek Chauvin or Potter  killed you I would have said the same thing.  Obviously you have the luxury of not being black or brown like me.  Even at my age I still get cops stopping me and demanding to inspect the bags I'm carrying or asking what the hell I'm doing in a building or neighborhood.  Imagine that happening to you.  Now imagine your peers or their children (or your children) facing a bullet even though they were innocent.   Previously I wrote of a time I was reaching for a candy bar in my pocket and there was a cop near me reaching for his gun.  Just imagine having to live with the fear that something like that can happen to you at any time.  That's what I and others have to go through every day.
> 
> Criminally racist punks like Mark Fuhrman, Stacey Koon, and Derek Chauvin have been getting away with crimes like these for decades.  These crimes have cost the cities hundreds of millions of dollars and and cause an incredible amount of social division.  How much longer must we as a society continue to put up with this nonsense when it could be stopped overnight by simply applying the law to these police criminals exactly the way we do to everyone else?


Oldiebutgoody, thank you for sharing your story.  As someone with "white privilege", I can't even imagine what you've had to endure all your life.  I guess I'm a bit more sympathetic because I'm gay and my partner is brown.  We've had to make choices as to where we could live because of this.  But I know it isn't nearly as serious as what you've experienced.  I can't even imagine.

It is especially distressing to hear black mothers talk about how they've had to prepare their sons to go out into the world, be discriminated against and fear the police.  Yes, there some Bad Apples in every race, but why should black or brown people have to behave any differently than white people who are equally culpable when confronted by the police?  Such inequity in our society.   

I understand where your frustration is coming from and thank you again for being transparent.


----------



## Irwin (Dec 23, 2021)

Gemma said:


> It ticked me off to see her sh*t eating grin on her face while processed.
> 
> Hopefully, this prison is just a place to hold her over until she's sentenced in February.


Former police inmates are kept separate from the general prison population, so she won't have it very bad no matter where she winds up.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> Oldiebutgoody, thank you for sharing your story.  As someone with "white privilege", I can't even imagine what you've had to endure all your life.  I guess I'm a bit more sympathetic because I'm gay and my partner is brown.  We've had to make choices as to where we could live because of this.  But I know it isn't nearly as serious as what you've experienced.  I can't even imagine.
> 
> It is especially distressing to hear black mothers talk about how they've had to prepare their sons to go out into the world, be discriminated against and fear the police.  Yes, there some Bad Apples in every race, but why should black or brown people have to behave any differently than white people who are equally culpable when confronted by the police?  Such inequity in our society.
> 
> I understand where your frustration is coming from and thank you again for being transparent.



Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for your open mindedness. 

I have spoken to parents who are black or brown about that. Some have said they will not allow their kids to play on varsity sports teams for fear that they will be driving home at night only to have some SOB cop  kill them in cold blood and then pretend it was for the good of society. Imagine having kids who are too afraid of dating at night  or playing sports because of these criminal cops. Those people who say that my words about murderous cops were somehow "cruel" need to stop and think about how their lives would be if they were in this particular situation. 

Consider Daunte Wright --- his mom is white.  When growing up she never had to face this type of problem.  Now she knows first hand what it's all about.  I challenge those cynics who criticized me to think  all this over.  Put themselves in the same position where I face the prospect of a loaded gun to my heart with trigger happy cops all around.  What the hell will they be thinking???


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 23, 2021)

I hear you.  What haunts me to this day is the case of Elijah McClain.  Wonderful, caring kid who played music for shelter animals.  He was so innocent, and the police killed him for absolutely no reason.  Yes, the family received a $15 million settlement for his death, but that will never bring him back and did that change the behavior?  These incidents are disgusting, and no, it is never all over.


----------



## JBingo36 (Dec 23, 2021)

Hello people. I read each and every reply. Seems to me everyone is making an excuse for her. She did exactly what the cop did to George Floyd. I think she was beyond angry and just wanted to teach him a lesson I think she had something like an out of body experience and didn’t even realize she shot him. She deserves life and more she showed no remorse and never helped proving she didn’t care that she shot him by the remark she made  which was now I’m going to jail. Yes you are a murderer and you don’t deserve a second chance  I don’t believe you made a mistake you know very well where your gun is  so good luck now that you also killed 2 family’s as well


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> I hear you.  What haunts me to this day is the case of Elijah McClain.  Wonderful, caring kid who played music for shelter animals.  He was so innocent, and the police killed him for absolutely no reason.  Yes, the family received a $15 million settlement for his death, but that will never bring him back and did that change the behavior?  These incidents are disgusting, and no, it is never all over.




Unfortunately, the $15 million came from the taxpayers, not the police union.  In that case it was clearly determined that there simply was no valid basis for stopping him at all.  It's just the police needlessly stopping and harassing innocents like they always do so gleefully.  To me, those cops deserve the gas chamber as well.  Those cynics who think that's cruel need to put themselves into the McClain family's shoes.  If it was their innocent son (who had not committed a single crime) had been murdered, they would also be calling for capital punishment.


----------



## Gemma (Dec 23, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> I wonder how many people have smiled when they felt like shit...or really awful?  Have you?


Can't say that I have @Ruthanne.  
And if I were to be incarcerated, I wouldn't be smiling about it.


----------



## terry123 (Dec 23, 2021)

So glad she was found guilty.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I live in the Twin Cities and have observed everything I've written about.  You have not.   All they had to do was to apply the law on a uniform basis and the incident would not have taken place just as with George Floyd.  She was the stupid one, not the victim.
> 
> As for having cops in the family, I have four. Only one remains in the service as the others retired. None of the cops I mentioned were shot.  It is likely that fewer cops would get shot in this society if cops obeyed the law rather than abuse it.


Well said!


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Age 70.  While my hair is all white I'm told that I look a bit younger.


O


peppermint said:


> I love you.....Gear.....I'm with you.....P.......I cried for that lady.....She never shot anyone in her 25 or how many years......
> I hope anyone here are
> 
> OK....The hudlum was trying to get away....He had a record and the police were going to bring him to the station.....They were not going
> ...


He may have been a "hoodlum" (not "hudlum"), but I'm sure after seeing the number of black men killed by police officers, even not trying to resist arrest, he was most likely scared.  Given the same situation, I would have probably resisted arrest as well.  Try putting yourself in someone else's shoes.


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 23, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> I wonder how many people have smiled when they felt like shit...or really awful?  Have you?


Not me.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Or it can also serve to tell cops to apply the law on a uniform basis. As I wrote previously, had Daunte Wright been white the cops would never have stopped him as he was stopped for having fuzzy dice in violation of the law.  Hundreds of white drivers do that every day and not one is ever stopped.


Very true.


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 23, 2021)

Gaer said:


> What kind of people ARE YOU?
> I can picture all of you in the dark ages, screaming "GUILOTINE!"


We are absolutely horrible people, screaming "off with her head".


----------



## SeaBreeze (Dec 23, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for your open mindedness.
> 
> I have spoken to parents who are black or brown about that. Some have said they will not allow their kids to play on varsity sports teams for fear that they will be driving home at night only to have some SOB cop  kill them in cold blood and then pretend it was for the good of society. Imagine having kids who are too afraid of dating at night  or playing sports because of these criminal cops. Those people who say that my words about murderous cops were somehow "cruel" need to stop and think about how their lives would be if they were in this particular situation.
> 
> Consider Daunte Wright --- his mom is white.  When growing up she never had to face this type of problem.  Now she knows first hand what it's all about.  I challenge those cynics who criticized me to think  all this over.  Put themselves in the same position where I face the prospect of a loaded gun to my heart with trigger happy cops all around.  What the hell will they be thinking???


I'm white, so I don't know first hand, but I grew up in a big city and I know what goes on.  Over the years I've had enough of my friends tell me of their experiences with racist cops, thankfully they were all alive to tell their stories.  It really angers me when I hear of another person of color being shot dead for no good reason at all.  It is modern day lynchings, no sugar coating it.  Black lives do matter, sad we even need that slogan in 2021.  The only glimmer of hope is that finally some of these killer cops are being held accountable.  Unfortunately that doesn't bring back the lives that were lost. May Daunte rest in peace, condolences to his family.


----------



## Irwin (Dec 23, 2021)

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and look for signs of decency, but I'm often wrong. A remorseful murderer wouldn't smile for a mug shot. Maybe all that sobbing on the stand was just an act. Maybe we just shouldn't underestimate the depravity of which people are capable and assume the worst, and if it turns out not to be the case, we can be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 23, 2021)

I always appreciate your insightful and unbiased responses, Irwin.


----------



## Irwin (Dec 23, 2021)

Here's what happened and why Wright was pulled over:

On April 11, 2021, Wright was driving with his girlfriend in a white 2011 Buick LaCrosse that was registered to his brother on their way to a car wash. A Brooklyn Center trainee officer in a patrol car, which contained Kimberly Potter as a passenger, observed the vehicle signaling a right turn while it was inside a left turning lane. The trainee officer also noticed that the vehicle had an expired registration tag on its license plate and had an air freshener hanging from the car's rearview mirror, a violation of Minnesota state law. At 1:53 p.m. local time, the trainee officer initiated a traffic stop of Wright's vehicle on 63rd Avenue North and called for backup.​​After pulling the vehicle over, the trainee officer approached the vehicle and learned the driver's name. Wright did not have a driver's license or proof-of-insurance card. The trainee officer returned to his squad car and was joined by Potter's supervisor who had arrived at the scene. Meanwhile, Wright phoned his mother. The officers ran Wright's name through a police database and learned that he had an open arrest warrant for failing to appear in court on a gross misdemeanor weapons violation for carrying a gun without a permit, and that there was a protective order against him by an unnamed woman. The officers decided to arrest Wright and ensure the passenger was not the same woman who had the protective order against him.​
The police were perfectly justified in pulling Wright over. It had nothing to do with him being Black.


----------



## win231 (Dec 23, 2021)

peppermint said:


> I love you.....Gear.....I'm with you.....P.......I cried for that lady.....She never shot anyone in her 25 or how many years......
> I hope anyone here are
> 
> OK....The hudlum was trying to get away....He had a record and the police were going to bring him to the station.....They were not going
> ...


You said it yourself:  "You have cops in your family."  That explains your bias.  That explains why you would never find fault with _anything _another cop did - right or wrong.  
Anything wrong with what Derek Chauvin did?


----------



## Irwin (Dec 23, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> I always appreciate your insightful and unbiased responses, Irwin.


Thanks, dseag2!


----------



## win231 (Dec 23, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Here's what happened and why Wright was pulled over:
> 
> On April 11, 2021, Wright was driving with his girlfriend in a white 2011 Buick LaCrosse that was registered to his brother on their way to a car wash. A Brooklyn Center trainee officer in a patrol car, which contained Kimberly Potter as a passenger, observed the vehicle signaling a right turn while it was inside a left turning lane. The trainee officer also noticed that the vehicle had an expired registration tag on its license plate and had an air freshener hanging from the car's rearview mirror, a violation of Minnesota state law. At 1:53 p.m. local time, the trainee officer initiated a traffic stop of Wright's vehicle on 63rd Avenue North and called for backup.​​After pulling the vehicle over, the trainee officer approached the vehicle and learned the driver's name. Wright did not have a driver's license or proof-of-insurance card. The trainee officer returned to his squad car and was joined by Potter's supervisor who had arrived at the scene. Meanwhile, Wright phoned his mother. The officers ran Wright's name through a police database and learned that he had an open arrest warrant for failing to appear in court on a gross misdemeanor weapons violation for carrying a gun without a permit, and that there was a protective order against him by an unnamed woman. The officers decided to arrest Wright and ensure the passenger was not the same woman who had the protective order against him.​
> The police were perfectly justified in pulling Wright over. It had nothing to do with him being Black.


It certainly didn't.  I'm the first to speak out when police do the wrong thing.  In this case, the only officer who did the wrong thing was Kim Potter.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 23, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Here's what happened and why Wright was pulled over:
> 
> On April 11, 2021, Wright was driving with his girlfriend in a white 2011 Buick LaCrosse that was registered to his brother on their way to a car wash. A Brooklyn Center trainee officer in a patrol car, which contained Kimberly Potter as a passenger, observed the vehicle signaling a right turn while it was inside a left turning lane. The trainee officer also noticed that the vehicle had an expired registration tag on its license plate and had an air freshener hanging from the car's rearview mirror, a violation of Minnesota state law. At 1:53 p.m. local time, the trainee officer initiated a traffic stop of Wright's vehicle on 63rd Avenue North and called for backup.​​After pulling the vehicle over, the trainee officer approached the vehicle and learned the driver's name. Wright did not have a driver's license or proof-of-insurance card. The trainee officer returned to his squad car and was joined by Potter's supervisor who had arrived at the scene. Meanwhile, Wright phoned his mother. The officers ran Wright's name through a police database and learned that he had an open arrest warrant for failing to appear in court on a gross misdemeanor weapons violation for carrying a gun without a permit, and that there was a protective order against him by an unnamed woman. The officers decided to arrest Wright and ensure the passenger was not the same woman who had the protective order against him.​
> The police were perfectly justified in pulling Wright over. It had nothing to do with him being Black.






Ride your car on the streets of Minnesota and you will see a thousand white drivers committing even worse violations while the cops do absolutely NOTHING about it.  Had he been white the cops would never have given him so much as a second look.  The attack on him had everything to do with his being black. You do not live here.  I do and am infinitely more qualified to say that than anyone here.


----------



## Della (Dec 24, 2021)

Maybe Kim Potter smiled for her mug shot because the person taking her picture said something nice,trying to make her feel better and she politely smiled in return.



oldiebutgoody said:


> Had he been white the cops would never have given him so much as a second look.


How could you possibly know that?

My husband, white, age 70, was recently stopped _three times in one weekend.  _  He didn't have expired tags or junk hanging from his rear view mirror, they just pulled him over and made him walk a straight line.  He's six foot four and has bad balance so he didn't do very well, so then had to have  breath tests each time to prove he wasn't drunk.

He thought it was because it was night time and close to his favorite bar. If it had been you, you would have thought it was because of your skin color.

I got pulled over for my tags last year.  If it had been you, you would have thought it was because of your skin color.

Let me tell you something, I'll bet you don't know.  In 2020, the year George Floyd was killed by police, 457 white people were killed by police.   We don't know any of their names, people didn't have marches about it, no one put wings on any of those dead white people and built statues of them, they just died and were buried by their families who didn't get millions of dollars to assuage their grief.

Your repeated declarations that police never stop white people and only black people ever encounter the police are just plain wrong.

You've said Kim Potter deserves the gas chamber for her mistake.  What do you think Daunte Wright deserved for doing the things he did? I think one of his victims has suffered a fate worse than death.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10329753/Daunte-Wright-victims-tell-violent-past.html


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 24, 2021)

^ You claim cops stopped your white husband three times - where?  What city?  This is the first time I've ever heard of a white guy making such a complaint unless they have a long record of violations and remains on a watch list.  Cops carry ID cards and he has a right to demand that they surrender one upon request.  Wanna show us those cards so that we can confirm if any of that is true? 

It is true that whites have been killed by cops. However, blacks and browns are targeted disproportionately:

racial profiling in traffic stops: https://sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php
driving while black: https://www.google.com/search?q=dri...rome..69i57.5582j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
driving while brown:https://www.google.com/search?q=dri...uMS4wLjIuMS4ymAEAoAEByAEKwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz
stop-and-frisk racial profiling:https://www.google.com/search?q=sto...rome..69i57.6568j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8




Locals in Minnesota know fully well  that Daunte Wright's only real "crime" was driving while black:  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...pired-plates-driving-while-black-may-n1263878

As I wrote before, had he been white he would not have been stopped.  Everybody here knows it.


----------



## hollydolly (Dec 24, 2021)

Della said:


> Maybe Kim Potter smiled for her mug shot because the person taking her picture said something nice,trying to make her feel better and she politely smiled in return.
> 
> 
> How could you possibly know that?
> ...


I wasn't aware of his serious criminal past... and the fact he'd left a friend a virtual vegetable... that's horrific, and Daunte wright deserved to go to prison for that for a very long time. However that case hadn't gone to court yet, so Potter shot him  after being only aware of his misdemeanour's... ...and in the words of the mother of Wrights'  victim, when referring to Wright shooting her son...  '' I don't believe you can shoot someone accidentally''...and she's right...Potter did not shoot accidentally... IMO...


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 24, 2021)

Della said:


> What do you think Daunte Wright deserved for doing the things he did? I think one of his victims has suffered a fate worse than death.
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10329753/Daunte-Wright-victims-tell-violent-past.html




I cannot answer that one as Daunte Wright was under 18 years of age  when most of these reported incidents took place. As such, a different set of laws are applicable. See the link you provided which reveal that the Minnesota Juvenile Court had jurisdiction over his case.  Since he had not been convicted of murder you cannot impose the death penalty on him. Had he been convicted of murder then I would agreed to _ Lex Talionis._


----------



## Della (Dec 24, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> ^ You claim cops stopped your white husband three times - where?  What city?  This is the first time I've ever heard of a white guy making such a complaint unless they have a long record of violations and remains on a watch list.  Cops carry ID cards and he has a right to demand that they surrender one upon request.  Wanna show us those cards so that we can confirm if any of that is true?
> 
> It is true that whites have been killed by cops. However, blacks and browns are targeted disproportionately:


I'm not about to reveal my real name or city on the internet, you'll just have to take my word for it.  I will tell you my husband is not on any sort of watch list.  He had a top secret clearance while in the Air Force and you don't get those if you have had any sort of serious violations.  He is not confrontation or argumentative with police, so he never would have demanded to see anyone's ID cards.  He was not angry about it at all, we guess the police were doing some sort of special crack down that weekend.  Each stop was by a different unit; police,  sheriff, highway patrol. 

You'll just have to take my word for it just as I've taken your word for the things you've said about yourself.

It is true that Blacks  are targeted disproportionately. That doesn't change the fact that 457 whites were killed while people like you were claiming that it _never _happens to white people.  I know that racial profiling exists but I also know that police can't help it if they're called to events where the suspect is described as black.  They can't just sit back and refuse to go because they've hit their 14% for the year.

If you want to talk about proportions and percentages, don't forget that while blacks make up 14% of the population they commit 54% of the homicides.

I believe the reasons for this have little to do with race and everything to do with poverty.  Unfortunately more black people live in dismal economic areas, so the young men often turn to gangs, drug dealing and other crime just to get by.  I think the answer is in things like  free childcare, better schools K through12, free or low cost community colleges in every town and free healthcare for everyone. 

What I don't believe is that the police are all evil racists out to get innocent black people. There are certainly a few bad ones as in  any profession, but I think they're mostly just trying to deal with the chaos and crime that has resulted from lack of social care.


----------



## AnnieA (Dec 24, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> ...
> 
> Locals in Minnesota know fully well  that Daunte Wright's only real "crime" was driving while black:  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...pired-plates-driving-while-black-may-n1263878
> 
> ...



Minnesota has a lot of Sundown Towns listed on Tougaloo College's website.  These towns practiced unlegislated Jim Crow principles outside the South.

(Note: As the site states, it's difficult to gauge the accuracy of towns submitted since most by federal law no longer are, but for areas that were historically committed to whites only, DWB policing can be a long-term, contemporary symptom.)

Excerpt from the website
*Emphasis mine*

A sundown town is not just a place where something racist happened. It is an entire community (or even county) that for decades was “all white” on purpose. “All white” is in quotes because some towns allowed one black family to remain when they drove out the rest.  ...​​“On purpose” does not require a formal ordinance. If, for example, a black family tried to move in, encountered considerable hostility, and left, that would qualify the town as “sundown.” ...​​Not all towns are thoroughly confirmed. Look over the information provided and come to your own conclusion. Some towns are not and never were sundown towns but are listed for other reasons. And of course, a town may have been sundown once, but now is not. *Ferguson, MO, was a sundown town between 1940 and 1960. By 2014, when racial conflict famously erupted there, it was 67% black, so it was certainly no longer a sundown town. However, like some other “recovering” sundown towns, it still displayed “second generation sundown town problems”, in this case an overwhelmingly white police force that still engaged in “DWB policing.”*​.​
More about Sundown Towns.

Although it is difficult to make an accurate count, historians estimate there were up to 10,000 sundown towns in the United States between 1890 and 1960, mostly in the Mid-West and West. They began to proliferate during the Great Migration, starting in about 1910, when large numbers of African Americans left the South to escape racism and poverty. As Blacks began to migrate to other regions of the country, many predominantly white communities actively discouraged them from settling there.​​​Not only did sundown towns 'discourage' black residents, but also black travelers necessitating the _N.gro Motorist Green Book _published from 1936-1966.


----------



## ohioboy (Dec 24, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> I cannot answer that one as Daunte Wright was under 18 years of age  when most of these reported incidents.  Since he had not been convicted of murder you cannot impose the death penalty on him. Had he been convicted of murder then I would agreed to _ Lex Talionis._


If a capital crime is committed by a person under 18 they can not by law receive the death penalty.


----------



## Irwin (Dec 24, 2021)

Della said:


> I believe the reasons for this have little to do with race and everything to do with poverty.  Unfortunately more black people live in dismal economic areas, so the young men often turn to gangs, drug dealing and other crime just to get by.  I think the answer is in things like  free childcare, better schools K through12, free or low cost community colleges in every town and free healthcare for everyone.


That's exactly right. When somebody grows up in a crime ridden area where there's little hope of getting ahead in the world or even  overcoming poverty, they turn to illegal activities. The system is not even an option for a lot of kids today. It's just not going to work in any way, shape, or form. But selling drugs or stealing does work if you don't get caught. And even if you do get caught, prison probably isn't that much worse than life on the outside. At least you get three meals a day and a place to live.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 24, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> If a capital crime is committed by a person under 18 they can not by law receive the death penalty.



No death penalty here in Minnesota.  However some have called for it. I would use it only in cases of cold blooded premeditated cases and in those committed by cops against innocent people but leave it up to the pols to decided whether we should have it.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 24, 2021)

Della said:


> You'll just have to take my word for it just as I've taken your word for the things you've said about yourself.




The difference being that I have heard similar stories from blacks or browns dozens upon dozens of times. Bear in mind that I have a law degree and have done social/advocacy work so that I have come across similar cases innumerable times. Some cases have actually gone to court and cops have found themselves in hot water.   But in all my years I have NEVER once ever heard a white guy make such a complaint.  And I mean never.  This despite the fact that I have known so many victim people, social workers, sympathetic cops, and research writers.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 24, 2021)

AnnieA said:


> Minnesota has a lot of Sundown Towns listed on Tougaloo College's website. These towns practiced unlegislated Jim Crow principles outside the South.






Very good of you to post that illuminating segment.  

I could post hundreds of links which say the same.  Just to prove a point I'll post this extract which again proves that it is the cops who are the problem in the Sundown State (not just town) of Iowa:


https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/iowa-ranks-worst-nation-racial-disparities-marijuana-arrests


*A Black Person in Iowa Is More Than 8 Times as Likely to be Arrested for Possession Than a White Person, Despite Equal Usage Rates, an ACLU National Study Finds

* Iowa has the largest racial disparity in the country of arrests in marijuana possession, with blacks being more than eight times as likely to be arrested than whites, even though whites use marijuana at about the same rate, a national American Civil Liberties Union study has found.

The report is based on data collected from the FBI and U.S. Census Bureau. It found that on average nationally in 2010, a black person was 3.7 times as likely to be arrested for marijuana as a white person.  And in some individual counties nationally, blacks were more than 10, 15, and even 20 times as likely to be arrested.

Iowa has the highest racial disparity rate in the country with a black person being 8.34 times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession as a white person. Iowa is followed by Washington D.C., Minnesota, Illinois, Wisconsin, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania.

In Iowa, blacks make up just 3.1 percent of the population, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. But in 2010, they were arrested at a rate 8.34 times higher than whites for marijuana possession. That translates into 1,454 blacks arrested per 100,000 of the black general population compared to just 174 whites arrested per 100,000 of the white general population.

"These are devastating numbers," said Legal Director for the ACLU of Iowa. Iowa criminal justice advocates have long pointed out racial disparities in arrest and incarceration rates of blacks and the report is further evidence that the state needs to make equity in criminal justice a priority, he said.

"Iowa has been a leading state among civil rights and should not rank as the worst in racial disparities in marijuana arrests," said Wilson. "We all need to take responsibility—whether as citizens, police on the streets, or administrators. We can all do something to change this culture if we truly care about justice and equal opportunity."

The report also includes recommendations on ending "the war on marijuana." Marijuana arrests now account for half of all drug arrests in the U.S.  The report recommends legalization of marijuana as the smartest and surest way to end racially biased enforcement of marijuana laws.

Iowa has fared badly in other studies of racial disparity in its criminal justice system.



  more ...



This goes across the board in every "crime" or social malady. It's not the skin color, it's the cops that are the problem.


----------



## ohioboy (Dec 24, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> No death penalty here in Minnesota.


The under 18 applies to every state that has the DP.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Dec 24, 2021)

At first I wondered how a so called experienced police officer could mistake her gun for a taser. After more came out, I found out that they are not even worn on the same side...and that's on purpose. Plus her taser was yellow and black...she didn't notice that when she pulled her gun?  Not knowing the difference and killing someone because of that would have made her a menace to society if she was allowed to remain on the force. Luckily that didn't happen and I'm so glad she was found guilty.
@garyt1957


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 24, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> The under 18 applies to every state that has the DP.




Ok.  I'll take your word for it as I am not familiar with state laws outside of Minnesota and a couple of Northeast states.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 25, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> At first I wondered how a so called experienced police officer could mistake her gun for a taser. After more came out, I found out that they are not even worn on the same side...and that's on purpose. Plus her taser was yellow and black...she didn't notice that when she pulled her gun?  Not knowing the difference and killing someone because of that would have made her a menace to society if she was allowed to remain on the force. Luckily that didn't happen and I'm so glad she was found guilty.
> @garyt1957


Plus -- the gun is several times heavier than the taser, and she should have noticed that in her hand.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Dec 25, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Plus -- the gun is several times heavier than the taser, and she should have noticed that in her hand.


Excellent point Butterfly.


----------



## hollydolly (Dec 25, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Plus -- the gun is several times heavier than the taser, and she should have noticed that in her hand.


 A whole pound heavier....


----------



## ohioboy (Dec 25, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Ok.  I'll take your word for it as I am not familiar with state laws outside of Minnesota and a couple of Northeast states.


It's federal constitutional law.

Held: The Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments forbid imposition of the death penalty on offenders who were under the age of 18 when their crimes were committed. Pp. 6—25.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-633.ZS.html


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## Della (Dec 25, 2021)

I was encouraged to read this article by Harvard Law professor, Alan Hershowitz, who thinks this sets a dangerous precedent and that Potter's conviction will be overturned.
https://thehill.com/opinion/judicia...r-kim-potters-conviction#bottom-story-socials


----------



## Pepper (Dec 25, 2021)

I hate and despise Alan Dershowitz.  Not to say he's not extremely smart.  He is that.  His ego is so ballooned I hope it bursts.  Sorry about the rant!


----------



## Chet (Dec 25, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> At first I wondered how a so called experienced police officer could mistake her gun for a taser. After more came out, I found out that they are not even worn on the same side...and that's on purpose. Plus her taser was yellow and black...she didn't notice that when she pulled her gun?  Not knowing the difference and killing someone because of that would have made her a menace to society if she was allowed to remain on the force. Luckily that didn't happen and I'm so glad she was found guilty.
> @garyt1957


I suggest that tasers be redesigned. Instead of having a hand-grip exactly like a gun, the taser should be shaped like a flashlight or similar, so the feel would be completely different than a gun, and the cop trained repeatedly until handling becomes second nature.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 25, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> It's federal constitutional law.
> 
> Held: The Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments forbid imposition of the death penalty on offenders who were under the age of 18 when their crimes were committed. Pp. 6—25.
> 
> https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-633.ZS.html




Good find, there. Thanks for sharing


----------



## AnnieA (Dec 25, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> At first I wondered how a so called experienced police officer could mistake her gun for a taser. After more came out, I found out that they are not even worn on the same side...and that's on purpose. Plus her taser was yellow and black...she didn't notice that when she pulled her gun? ....



I truly believed before the trial that it was a heat-of-the-moment tragic mistake because she fired in such a way that she endangered the passenger and the officer at the passenger door.  Her gun safety training included over and over again that you always consider what's beyond your target.  I'm still not 100% sure she deliberately chose the gun ....but!!! her breakdown during her testimony and much of what she said came across as insincere and no doubt the jurors thought so as well.


----------



## win231 (Dec 26, 2021)

Gemma said:


> Why was she smiling at processing to the prison?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474134961057898502


The photographer asked her out.


----------



## ohioboy (Dec 26, 2021)

win231 said:


> The photographer asked her out.


No, he was flashing her.


----------



## Della (Dec 27, 2021)

I expect she knew the photographer as she would know most of the police staff after 26 years.  He probably said something kind to her and she smiled in polite response  -- or we could just make something dirty out of it and grind her under our heels a little bit more while she's already lost her career, her reputation and years out of her life over a mistake. 

 It must be wonderful to have gone through your whole life without ever fumbling or getting confused or making a mistake of any kind.  Go congratulate yourselves.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 27, 2021)

Della said:


> I expect she knew the photographer as she would know most of the police staff after 26 years.  He probably said something kind to her and she smiled in polite response  -- or we could just make something dirty out of it and grind her under our heels a little bit more while she's already lost her career, her reputation and years out of her life over a mistake.
> 
> It must be wonderful to have gone through your whole life without ever fumbling or getting confused or making a mistake of any kind.  Go congratulate yourselves.





Dunno who that's directed to but I can certainly attest to the fact that I made a few mistakes in my time.  Thankfully, no one died as a result.  On the contrary, I used the knowledge gained while working for the Treasury Department and while earning a law degree to keep people out of jail and preserving good quality of life for those who could not afford legal assistance. The work did not pay much but led to a great deal of personal satisfaction.


----------



## Della (Dec 27, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Dunno who that's directed to


It's not all about you, Oldiebutgoodie.

It was Win and Ohioboy who made me lose my temper and I adore both of them.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 27, 2021)




----------



## ohioboy (Dec 27, 2021)

Della said:


> It's not all about you, Oldiebutgoodie.
> 
> It was Win and Ohioboy who made me lose my temper and I adore both of them.


What did I say to make you loose your temper?

Edit: nevermind


----------



## Sassycakes (Dec 27, 2021)

I believe if you commit a crime you must due the time.


----------



## Della (Dec 27, 2021)

Sassycakes said:


> I believe if you commit a crime you must due the time.


I do too, but an accident is not a crime.


----------



## Tabby Ann (Dec 27, 2021)

Sassycakes said:


> I believe if you commit a crime you must due the time.


If only Daunte Wright had believed that and surrendered to police instead of fighting them he would be alive today.


----------



## fmdog44 (Dec 27, 2021)

dseag2 said:


> I hear you.  What haunts me to this day is the case of Elijah McClain.  Wonderful, caring kid who played music for shelter animals.  He was so innocent, and the police killed him for absolutely no reason.  Yes, the family received a $15 million settlement for his death, but that will never bring him back and did that change the behavior?  These incidents are disgusting, and no, it is never all over.


I wonder what charitable cause his family has shared their "winnings" with.


----------



## John cycling (Dec 27, 2021)

Della said:


> an accident is not a crime.



It was not an accident.  She pointed her gun at him, she shot him, and that's murder.
.


----------



## Della (Dec 27, 2021)

There must be a lot of military veterans guilty of murder by your definition.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 27, 2021)

Tabby Ann said:


> If only Daunte Wright had believed that and surrendered to police instead of fighting them he would be alive today.




In enforcing the law on a selective basis the police were violating the law. Had they not done so he would be alive.


----------



## ohioboy (Dec 27, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> In enforcing the law on a selective basis the police were violating the law. Had they not done so he would be alive.


The Equal Protection Clause comes to mind.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 27, 2021)

ohioboy said:


> The Equal Protection Clause comes to mind.




and Due Process as well


----------



## peppermint (Dec 29, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> If someone like Derek Chauvin or Potter  killed you I would have said the same thing.  Obviously you have the luxury of not being black or brown like me.  Even at my age I still get cops stopping me and demanding to inspect the bags I'm carrying or asking what the hell I'm doing in a building or neighborhood.  Imagine that happening to you.  Now imagine your peers or their children (or your children) facing a bullet even though they were innocent.   Previously I wrote of a time I was reaching for a candy bar in my pocket and there was a cop near me reaching for his gun.  Just imagine having to live with the fear that something like that can happen to you at any time.  That's what I and others have to go through every day.
> 
> Criminally racist punks like Mark Fuhrman, Stacey Koon, and Derek Chauvin have been getting away with crimes like these for decades.  These crimes have cost the cities hundreds of millions of dollars and and cause an incredible amount of social division.  How much longer must we as a society continue to put up with this nonsense when it could be stopped overnight by simply applying the law to these police criminals exactly the way we do to everyone else?





dseag2 said:


> Oldiebutgoody, thank you for sharing your story.  As someone with "white privilege", I can't even imagine what you've had to endure all your life.  I guess I'm a bit more sympathetic because I'm gay and my partner is brown.  We've had to make choices as to where we could live because of this.  But I know it isn't nearly as serious as what you've experienced.  I can't even imagine.
> 
> It is especially distressing to hear black mothers talk about how they've had to prepare their sons to go out into the world, be discriminated against and fear the police.  Yes, there some Bad Apples in every race, but why should black or brown people have to behave any differently than white people who are equally culpable when confronted by the police?  Such inequity in our society.
> 
> I understand where your frustration is coming from and thank you again for being transparent.


My father was brown  black....Mom was very white....So I am in between..My father had many kids from his father and grandmother....Sometimes when I was older, I had to help my father tell me who are white and some were brown...Some also were very very brown....Most were Italian....And from another country....This is the first time I ever thought about it....It was a 
different time....I loved everyone of the family....Some of my
cousins were half and half....I never cared what ever they were...
I loved every one of them....Most are gone....I don't know why
I'm telling, but I'm old now and I don't care what or who is black
or brown or another family that were born in another country and
came over to America....Most were Italian....some were from another country....Can't remember where or when....My mind is not
like I use to be.....They are all gone......I do sometime go to the cemetary....Sometime I don't remember cause we had a very huge
family.....I most go to my parents and brother's wall.....I cry every time....By the way, my father was always called a name I won't say...
At that time it was a name that you would say...OK....hahaha....not
anymore....Dad had many friends no matter who they were and bring home guy's that were in the armory with my dad...Mom had to whip up a plate for the guy....I would not eat....
Oh well....Those were the day's......   Oh, my best armory guy was
Rodchester....He was black....I'm trying to remember how many
guys came to my mom and dad's home.....for Spaghetti....
I'm sad......


----------



## Larry67 (Dec 29, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> they are illegal in Minnesota:  https://tinyurl.com/2kzje7du
> 
> 
> Fuzzy dice, pennants, elves, and other things are believed to pose a hazard to the public.  The problem isn't the law so much as is the continued inconsistent enforcement of the law here.  You see these things on cars all the time as thousands of motorists use them.  But let one black driver have one and the stupid cops suddenly decide the driver is a public menace.
> ...


Do you think that the black police officer that pulled Daunte Wright over is a racist?


----------



## ohioboy (Dec 29, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> they are illegal in Minnesota:  https://tinyurl.com/2kzje7du
> 
> With all the traffic moving along, the cops have to have eyes like an eagle and take a deep look at a license in order to ascertain that the driver is using expired tags. In other words, they have to be targeting someone in order to be able to make such discernment.


It would be easier to just run the plate then try to eyeball small print?


----------



## Nathan (Dec 29, 2021)

Larry67 said:


> Do you think that the black police officer that pulled Daunte Wright over is a racist?


Don't know what the black officer's inner thoughts were, but Daunte Wright was black, so 'race' would not be an issue there.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 29, 2021)

Nathan said:


> Don't know what the black officer's inner thoughts were, but Daunte Wright was black, so 'race' would not be an issue there.




Potter was in charge. Neither would have bothered had the driver been white.  Every conversation we've had here in the Twinkie Cities involved that issue.


----------



## Della (Dec 30, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Potter was in charge. Neither would have bothered had the driver been white.  Every conversation we've had here in the Twinkie Cities involved that issue.


It would be pretty easy to check their police log and see if they only pulled over black people.  It might be more accurate information than your conversations with like minded friends.


----------



## Larry67 (Dec 30, 2021)

Maybe people will stop becoming police officers. That should prevent situation from happening again. Never lose hope.


----------



## Irwin (Dec 30, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Potter was in charge. Neither would have bothered had the driver been white.  Every conversation we've had here in the Twinkie Cities involved that issue.


Wright brought attention to himself when he was in the left turn lane with his right blinker on. That had nothing to do with his race.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 30, 2021)

Della said:


> It would be pretty easy to check their police log and see if they only pulled over black people.  It might be more accurate information than your conversations with like minded friends.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/us/minneapolis-police.html




If you wish to investigate further, here's a good starting point.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 30, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Wright brought attention to himself when he was in the left turn lane with his right blinker on. That had nothing to do with his race.




You can make up another hundred excuses but it won't change history.


----------



## win231 (Dec 30, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Wright brought attention to himself when he was in the left turn lane with his right blinker on. That had nothing to do with his race.


Definitely a capital offense.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 30, 2021)

Larry67 said:


> Maybe people will stop becoming police officers. That should prevent situation from happening again. Never lose hope.





Police reform worked in Camden, NJ.  That's what we need throughout the USA.  After all, remember when Reagan said government needs to get off your back?  Too bad nobody applied that to the corrupt cops or society would have been so much better off.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 30, 2021)

win231 said:


> Definitely a capital offense.





Recently I was out side and saw a white motorist run a red light. Dunno what his hurry was.  But mebbe a couple of cops should have opened fire on him and put him in a grave  so that he would learn a lesson he'd never forget.


----------



## John cycling (Dec 30, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Recently I was out side and saw a white motorist run a red light. Dunno what his hurry was.  But mebbe a couple of cops should have opened fire on him and put him in a grave  so that he would learn a lesson he'd never forget.



Yeah, I mean obviously he was a criminal  and the cops have to protect themselves from the criminals.


----------



## Irwin (Dec 30, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> You can make up another hundred excuses but it won't change history.


It's not an excuse. He brought attention to himself by doing something that people under the influence of drugs or alcohol might do, and that caused the police to take a closer look. It had nothing to do with his race but everything to do with his behavior. Not that having signaling a right turn when in the left lane is a major offense, but it could have been the impetus for the police checking him out.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think Wright should have been allowed to get away with his crimes, just because he was Black? I could see if it was just drug offenses or maybe shoplifting, but he was wanted for some serious crimes.


----------



## oldiebutgoody (Dec 30, 2021)

^Wright was entitled to a fair trial like everyone else.  Point is moot, however, since he is dead.

As for the minor traffic violation, the city of Minneapolis has had enough of these endlessly stupid police stoppages:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...olice-traffic-stops-minor-violations-n1276839

Had we only had police reform years ago, so many of these problems that exist in our society would have ended a long time ago.  Like it or not, it is the police who are and have always been the problem.


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## Della (Dec 30, 2021)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Wright was entitled to a fair trial like everyone else. Point is moot, however, since he is dead.


A fair trial is just what he would have had if he allowed Officer Luckey to cuff him and take him to the police station, but he decided to struggle with the police and try to run away with another cop halfway in the car.  It's his own fault he didn't get that trail.


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## Jeni (Dec 30, 2021)

After one of these media frenzies ( cant remember which one) .... and if anyone looks at total stops vs incidents you can see this often happens is blown out of proportion 
Some brave activists and  black community leaders stepped up and went through a police training drill ...............putting themselves in the role of pulling people over or engaging a suspect... All failed the drill ... in a real life situation they would at the very least be seriously injured but most likely dead...... 

Only one brave pastor spoke up  afterwords and said "wow it was eye opening." I did not have enough time to see everything happening".

Look at the amount of police officers killed the last few years ....... some were even shot just sitting in their cars NOT doing anything racist or whatever. How is that justified ... 

I have not had a job that I went to that i might not come home ( unless huge accident)  from EVERY day...... 
not forced to make split second decisions all under high adrenaline.... some people are better in a crisis then others.

I for one have seen many people who seemed to chose the wrong profession as they seemed ill suited for what they were doing.


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## Irwin (Dec 30, 2021)

Della said:


> A fair trial is just what he would have had if he allowed Officer Luckey to cuff him and take him to the police station, but he decided to struggle with the police and try to run away with another cop halfway in the car.  It's his own fault he didn't get that trail.


While I agree that it's his own fault he was killed by the police, it was not his fault that he was born into an unhealthy environment, or that he had a learning disability, or a number of other factors that predetermined his fate. Those are the fault of society.


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## oldiebutgoody (Dec 30, 2021)

Della said:


> A fair trial is just what he would have had if he allowed Officer Luckey to cuff him and take him to the police station, but he decided to struggle with the police and try to run away with another cop halfway in the car.  It's his own fault he didn't get that trail.




Actually, Irwin's question was re the other charges, not this matter.  As before, had he been white he would never have been stopped in the first place.  As for the other issues, they were still pending but are now moot. Now that Minneapolis has officially ordered all such trivial race based stoppages to end we can all hope this will no longer happen in the future. One can hope but I will not  be one to hold my breath waiting for such a day.


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## ohioboy (Jan 11, 2022)

Gemma said:


> Hopefully, this prison is just a place to hold her over until she's sentenced in February.


I checked, it is the only Female prison in MN, custody level is All security levels. So she stays.The _Maximum_ security level inmates are of course apart from the minimum level inmates. I could not find any info on her cell # or such, however I would imagine she is not in the section/wing with the real bad boys, or should I say, real bad girls.


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## peppermint (Jan 11, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> Actually, Irwin's question was re the other charges, not this matter.  As before, had he been white he would never have been stopped in the first place.  As for the other issues, they were still pending but are now moot. Now that Minneapolis has officially ordered all such trivial race based stoppages to end we can all hope this will no longer happen in the future. One can hope but I will not  be one to hold my breath waiting for such a day.


Give it a break.....I've seen many police stop people....and they were white....Of course I was stopped 2 times already.....I was 
going to fast.....I got a ticket....Big Dale.....My husband got stopped on our street....going into our driveway....the cop got
out and asked hubby if it was our house....hubby told him we
live here 40 years....then he asked my husband's name...
hubby told his name....then he said....OH!!!!  you have a son, correct....hubby said yes....He is a school teacher....So the cop
told him to be careful when you put your lights on....to go into
the driveway....My husband said he was in the driveway already..
I live here.....Jeez.....Sometimes you will get the young cops....
stopping for nothing....


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## oldiebutgoody (Jan 11, 2022)

peppermint said:


> Give it a break.....I've seen many police stop people....and they were white....Of course I was stopped 2 times already.....I was
> going to fast.....I got a ticket....Big Dale.....My husband got stopped on our street....going into our driveway....the cop got
> out and asked hubby if it was our house....hubby told him we
> live here 40 years....then he asked my husband's name...
> ...





We've discussed enough times that this happens across the board.  What you fail to understand is the disproportionate use of such needless stoppages.  You also fail to understand that we live in a free country.  We are at war overseas (we are told) to preserve our FREEDOMS.  Yet, those same freedoms get needlessly restricted by the government in violation of the Constitution.  Again recall our earlier discussion of the *Equal Protection Clause *and the *Due Process Clause*.  Like it or not you must understand  that the government needs to apply the law on a uniform, not a selective, basis.  That is the law.


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## peppermint (Jan 11, 2022)

oldiebutgoody said:


> We've discussed enough times that this happens across the
> 
> 
> oldiebutgoody said:
> ...


And who are you...........................


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## ohioboy (Jan 11, 2022)

As long as probable cause or reasonable suspicion that an offense has taken place, subjective intentions play no role in ordinary fourth AM analysis, meaning if a person of color is stopped solely due their color, as long as the above is verified, the Federal remedy is a complaint under the Equal Protection Clause, not the Fourth AM.


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## peppermint (Jan 11, 2022)

ohioboy said:


> As long as probable cause or reasonable suspicion that an offense has taken place, subjective intentions play no role in ordinary fourth AM analysis, meaning if a person of color is stopped solely due their color, as long as the above is verified, the Federal remedy is a complaint under the Equal Protection Clause, not the Fourth AM.


I don't need you, ohio boy....By the way I have lived there for many years......


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## ohioboy (Jan 11, 2022)

peppermint said:


> I don't need you, ohio boy....By the way I have lived there for many years......


What in the world are you talking about?


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## Jeni (Feb 20, 2022)

Wright family, activists see injustice in Potter's sentence​
https://www.yahoo.com/news/wright-family-activists-see-injustice-174748094.html




Wright family, activists see injustice in Potter's sentence​Sat, February 19, 2022, 9:47 AM
_MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — The issue of race was barely brought up during the trial of Kim Potter, a former suburban Minneapolis police officer who was convicted of manslaughter for killing Daunte Wright after she said she confused her handgun for her Taser.
But Wright’s family members and many activists say the killing of the 20-year-old Black motorist has always been about race, from the moment officers decided to pull him over, to the moment a judge gave Potter a two-year sentence, which family members decried as giving more consideration to the white defendant than the Black victim.
“What we see today is the legal system in America in Black and white,” Ben Crump, an attorney for Wright’s family, said after Friday’s sentencing.
Wright was killed on April 11 after Brooklyn Center officers pulled him over for having expired license tags and an air freshener hanging from his rearview mirror, violations that civil rights activists say are used as a pretext to stop Black motorists.
Officers discovered Wright had a warrant for a weapons possession charge and they tried to arrest him but he pulled away. Video shows Potter, who is white, shouted several times that she would use her Taser on Wright, but she had her gun in her hand and fired once into his chest._

Two years  not what the court of  social media expected at all....


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## Alligatorob (Feb 20, 2022)

Jeni said:


> Two years not what the court of social media expected at all....


No matter, I hope justice was done. 

Really hard to know about this one, just got to trust that the court heard a lot more and more unbiased testimony than we did, and that they did the right thing.


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## Pepper (Feb 20, 2022)

The judge was an emotional wreck & had total disregard for the family.  I'm not condemning her sentencing, I'm condemning her professionalism, which I find sorely lacking.


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## oldiebutgoody (Feb 20, 2022)

Pepper said:


> The judge was an emotional wreck & had total disregard for the family.  I'm not condemning her sentencing, I'm condemning her professionalism, which I find sorely lacking.




No question about it - the judge was totally lacking in professionalism. She is supposed to be fair and objective, not selective or favoring of anyone.  Clearly she showed far more concern for the cop than for the victimized family.  The judge should be recalled for her lack of impartiality and professionalism. 

A two year sentence?  Officer Mohammed Noor killed a white woman in what was clearly an accident (it was dark and he did not see that a light of some kind was not a weapon) and shot because he had fear of danger. For that he got 12.5 years in prison in a place known for harboring white supremacists who would gladly kill him if they had the chance.  In this case Potter was negligent.  Completely negligent.  All those crocodile tears are clearly fabricated in order to create sympathy.  Those, too, are not the actions of a trained professional. And she had a history of shutting off the cameras in order to keep it from recording her actions.  Two years in jail (a country club prison) for her crime is an injustice to the Wright family and to society.


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