# How many have to die before we finally do what needs to be done?



## MarciKS (Dec 18, 2021)

that's right i'm asking and i don't care who i upset. how much more pressure do we think can be placed on the medical system as a whole before things break completely down? how many more people have to die before people suck it up and stop whining and go get their shots and wear their masks and stop running all over the country spreading this crap? how long before people grow up and do the responsible thing? this video is what is happening in kansas right now and i'm sure it's worse in other places. stop and think about what will happen if you need to get emergency care and can't because the hospital has no room? guess what? you die. why? why do people not understand this? why do people fight this? there was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines. step up and do your part to stop this spread *if you're able to take the vaccine*. there's no excuse not to otherwise.


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## Capt Lightning (Dec 18, 2021)

I can't really disagree with you, but after nearly two years of being told what to do by so called "experts", many of us are just, to use a good Scottish word, "Scunnered" , by the whole thing and just want to take charge of our own lives.


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## win231 (Dec 18, 2021)

_"There was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines."_
Your need for a scapegoat is interfering with your ability to think.  Unlike Covid vaccines, no one ever tried to force flu vaccines on anyone.  It was a personal choice - just as the Covid vaccine is a personal choice, despite your overpowering need to control & place blame.


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## JaniceM (Dec 18, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> that's right i'm asking and i don't care who i upset. how much more pressure do we think can be placed on the medical system as a whole before things break completely down? how many more people have to die before people suck it up and stop whining and go get their shots and wear their masks and stop running all over the country spreading this crap? how long before people grow up and do the responsible thing? this video is what is happening in kansas right now and i'm sure it's worse in other places. stop and think about what will happen if you need to get emergency care and can't because the hospital has no room? guess what? you die. why? why do people not understand this? why do people fight this? there was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines. step up and do your part to stop this spread *if you're able to take the vaccine*. there's no excuse not to otherwise.


I'd been wondering:  I'm not sure how many, but there are Seniors here who are much older and were around during the polio epidemic-  were people then going around going "Nobody can tell ME what to do!  I'm asserting my RIGHTS!  Gotta QUESTION AUTHORITY!"?  
Welllll, this wasn't called "the Me Generation" for nothing!!!


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## Shero (Dec 18, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> that's right i'm asking and i don't care who i upset. how much more pressure do we think can be placed on the medical system as a whole before things break completely down? how many more people have to die before people suck it up and stop whining and go get their shots and wear their masks and stop running all over the country spreading this crap? how long before people grow up and do the responsible thing? this video is what is happening in kansas right now and i'm sure it's worse in other places. stop and think about what will happen if you need to get emergency care and can't because the hospital has no room? guess what? you die. why? why do people not understand this? why do people fight this? there was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines. step up and do your part to stop this spread *if you're able to take the vaccine*. there's no excuse not to otherwise.



Do not worry about "upsetting" anyone. I am amazed some hardcore anti vaxxers are still posting their absolute BS.  Keep pushing it, maybe someone will eventually get the message.

I do not have smpathy for people who refuse to believe the science, people who have no regard that the human race is suffering a global pandemic and still they are determined to stick to their conspiracy theories. Makes me sick!
.


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## PamfromTx (Dec 18, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> that's right i'm asking and i don't care who i upset. how much more pressure do we think can be placed on the medical system as a whole before things break completely down? how many more people have to die before people suck it up and stop whining and go get their shots and wear their masks and stop running all over the country spreading this crap? how long before people grow up and do the responsible thing? this video is what is happening in kansas right now and i'm sure it's worse in other places. stop and think about what will happen if you need to get emergency care and can't because the hospital has no room? guess what? you die. why? why do people not understand this? why do people fight this? there was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines. step up and do your part to stop this spread *if you're able to take the vaccine*. there's no excuse not to otherwise.


how many have to die before we finally do what needs to be done?​
Perhaps another 800,000+ and even then, _many_ will still not get vaccinated.


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## Nathan (Dec 18, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> how many more people have to die before people suck it up and stop whining and go get their shots and wear their masks and stop running all over the country spreading this crap? how long before people grow up and do the responsible thing?


It's a different world now, common sense is passé...the internet is a wonderful medium to learn, whether it be factual or fantasy.  A huge percentage of the population is under the influence (and control of) the conspiracy theorist media, that preaches fear and distrust...perfect tactics for dividing the nation.   The "good news" is that the "anti" folks are thinning their own numbers out, too bad they can't do that and not jeopardizing others.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 18, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> that's right i'm asking and i don't care who i upset. how much more pressure do we think can be placed on the medical system as a whole before things break completely down? how many more people have to die before people suck it up and stop whining and go get their shots and wear their masks and stop running all over the country spreading this crap? how long before people grow up and do the responsible thing? this video is what is happening in kansas right now and i'm sure it's worse in other places. stop and think about what will happen if you need to get emergency care and can't because the hospital has no room? guess what? you die. why? why do people not understand this? why do people fight this? there was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines. step up and do your part to stop this spread *if you're able to take the vaccine*. there's no excuse not to otherwise.


I don't think the covid deniers will ever give a damn about anyone but themselves.  They spit in the face of he 800,000+ who have had to bury their loved ones because they were infected with the COVID-19 virus.  They laugh at the hospitals being overloaded and the medical professional being overwhelmed.  They are driven either by conspiracies, politics or both, and can't (or refuse to) tell fiction from fact.

It's pretty obvious that they are un-American and don't care about our country or the health of our citizens. We can't count on them to grow up and start to care, they are destroyers and not builders.  We could be in such a better place now than we are, and they wouldn't have to constantly whimper about masks and life saving vaccines if they just acted like adults. 

 I have no sympathy for all those who refused to take precautions and vaccines that die in hospitals, but I do feel bad for their family members who tried to talk some sense into them.  I do have sympathy for those who cannot get care because of them.


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## Becky1951 (Dec 18, 2021)

JaniceM said:


> I'd been wondering:  I'm not sure how many, but there are Seniors here who are much older and were around during the polio epidemic-  were people then going around going "Nobody can tell ME what to do!  I'm asserting my RIGHTS!  Gotta QUESTION AUTHORITY!"?
> Welllll, this wasn't called "the Me Generation" for nothing!!!  View attachment 199577


It took years to develop the polio vaccine. It took months to develop the Covid vaccine. 


https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 18, 2021)

Nathan said:


> It's a different world now, common sense is passé...the internet is a wonderful medium to learn, whether it be factual or fantasy.  A huge percentage of the population is under the influence (and control of) the conspiracy theorist media, that preaches fear and distrust...perfect tactics for dividing the nation.   The "good news" is that the "anti" folks are thinning their own numbers out, too bad they can't do that and not jeopardizing others.


I agree, it's unfortunate they can't do that without jeopardizing others.


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## chic (Dec 18, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It took years to develop the polio vaccine. It took months to develop the Covid vaccine.
> 
> 
> https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio


And the defense rests. Besides. The vaccine doesn't work.

So when will pro vaxxers come to the conclusion that we just have to allow people to live in a world where covid is endemic? How many have to die from cancers and other treatable diseases because they cannot see a doctor in time because every disease is swept aside as unimportant due to their morbid preoccupation with covid. When do the pro vaxxers say "enough"?


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## RadishRose (Dec 18, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It took years to develop the polio vaccine.


That was almost two generations ago. Medical science has advanced light years since then, so of course it would take *far *less time to develop vaccines today.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 18, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It took years to develop the polio vaccine. It took months to develop the Covid vaccine.
> 
> 
> https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio


If you read outside of your usual conspiracy sources, you will learn.  Most Americans already knew this, but you are in your own bubble of misinformation.



> *COVID-19 Vaccine vs. the Polio Vaccine*​*While there are some parallels to the polio vaccine, there are some key differences. When the 1955 polio vaccine came out, it was the only vaccine. The COVID-19 vaccine has 3 versions available in the United States alone.
> 
> Another difference is how fact the vaccines were rolled out. Because the researchers who made the vaccine already had some groundwork with other SARS vaccines, the COVID-19 vaccine was completed pretty quickly. The polio vaccine took years to develop due to the technology of the time and having to start from scratch. *



https://www.pasadenahealthcenter.com/blog/coronavirus/the-polio-vaccine-rollout-vs-covid-rollout/


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## Becky1951 (Dec 18, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> That was almost two generations ago. Medical science has advanced light years since then, so of course it would take *far *less time to develop vaccines today.


The final step in all vaccine trials is following the participants for a minimum of 2 years. That step was eliminated and we are the final step.  The vaccines obviously don't work and its easier to blame the unvaccinated.


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## RadishRose (Dec 18, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> The vaccines obviously don't work


I wouldn't say that. For the most part they do.

I didn't know about the two year minimum though. I guess they wanted to do something before more people died.

We can't really compare the COVID vaccine to the evolution of the polio vaccine so long ago was my main point.

No further comments from me on this subject. (I hope)


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## win231 (Dec 18, 2021)

Shero said:


> Do not worry about "upsetting" anyone. I am amazed some hardcore anti vaxxers are still posting their absolute BS.  Keep pushing it, maybe someone will eventually get the message.
> 
> I do not have smpathy for people who refuse to believe the science, people who have no regard that the human race is suffering a global pandemic and still they are determined to stick to their conspiracy theories. Makes me sick!
> .


It can't make you sick.
Your vaccine protects you, n'est-ce pas ?


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## Becky1951 (Dec 18, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> I wouldn't say that. For the most part they do.
> 
> I didn't know about the two year minimum though. I guess they wanted to do something before more people died.
> 
> ...


"We can't really compare the COVID vaccine to the evolution of the polio vaccine so long ago was my main point.


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## Shero (Dec 18, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> The final step in all vaccine trials is following the participants for a minimum of 2 years. That step was eliminated and we are the final step.  The vaccines obviously don't work and its easier to blame the unvaccinated.



You are unbelievable Becky.  It is quite clear you  know nothing of the steps  vaccine development goes through in  our modern scientific times.  Yet!! you argue, why? is it because you do not want to help humanity? what is your real reason?

The covid vaccine already had a blueprint and was more than half way, much more than Sars had. Vaccines, like any scientific studies, do not start from scratch, they build on each other, so fruition comes quicker.

Yo will no doubt ignore this knowledge I am imparting to you and so will Chic.  So be it!!!
.


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## win231 (Dec 18, 2021)

Shero said:


> You are unbelievable Becky.  It is quite clear you  know nothing of the steps  vaccine development goes through in  our modern scientific times.  Yet!! you argue, why? is it because you do not want to help humanity? what is your real reason?
> 
> The covid vaccine already had a blueprint and was more than half way, much more than Sars had. Vaccines, like any scientific studies, do not start from scratch, they build on each other, so fruition comes quicker.
> 
> ...


Don't leave me out!  I'll ignore it too.


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## win231 (Dec 18, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> The final step in all vaccine trials is following the participants for a minimum of 2 years. That step was eliminated and we are the final step.  The vaccines obviously don't work and its easier to blame the unvaccinated.


They have to blame somebody.  They get lots of help from vaccine pushers.


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## Becky1951 (Dec 18, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> If you read outside of your usual conspiracy sources, you will learn.  Most Americans already knew this, but you are in your own bubble of misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.pasadenahealthcenter.com/blog/coronavirus/the-polio-vaccine-rollout-vs-covid-rollout/


"If you read outside of your usual conspiracy sources, you will learn. Most Americans already knew this, but you are in your own bubble of misinformation."

Apparently most American's don't know, several members here keep bringing up the polio vaccine. Funny how the pro vaccine members never give snarky comments to them about it, but jump on any chance to comment on those not vaccinated who reply to those comments.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 18, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Apparently most American's don't know, several members here keep bringing up the polio vaccine. Funny how the pro vaccine members never give snarky comments to them about it, but jump on any chance to comment on those not vaccinated who reply to those comments.


Your posts make no sense, think about it.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 18, 2021)

Shero said:


> You are unbelievable Becky.  It is quite clear you  know nothing of the steps  vaccine development goes through in  our modern scientific times.  Yet!! you argue, why? is it because you do not want to help humanity? what is your real reason?
> 
> The covid vaccine already had a blueprint and was more than half way, much more than Sars had. Vaccines, like any scientific studies, do not start from scratch, they build on each other, so fruition comes quicker.
> 
> ...


Agree with all you say Shero, thanks again for posting facts here.


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## Becky1951 (Dec 18, 2021)

Shero said:


> You are unbelievable Becky.  It is quite clear you  know nothing of the steps  vaccine development goes through in  our modern scientific times.  Yet!! you argue, why? is it because you do not want to help humanity? what is your real reason?
> 
> The covid vaccine already had a blueprint and was more than half way, much more than Sars had. Vaccines, like any scientific studies, do not start from scratch, they build on each other, so fruition comes quicker.
> 
> ...


Oh look more snarky comments.


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## Shero (Dec 18, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Oh look more snarky comments.



If you call imparting knowledge and facts "snarky" Becky,  then your wires are a bit crossed. 
.


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## Don M. (Dec 18, 2021)

We celebrated Christmas with our family today.  With all the in-laws, we have to "rotate" our holidays....this was our "odd" year.  Everyone, except for 2 of the youngest great grandkids, has been vaccinated.  We had a wonderful time...no feeling we needed to wear masks, and could mingle close to each other...even some nice hugs.   

On the flip side, one of the Son-in-laws brothers and family have all contracted the virus.  None have been vaccinated, and 2 are in the hospital.  Their Christmas is a Disaster.  

That is proof enough for all of us that we made the right decision.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 18, 2021)

Don M. said:


> On the flip side, one of the Son-in-laws brothers and family have all contracted the virus. None have been vaccinated, and 2 are in the hospital. Their Christmas is a Disaster.
> 
> That is proof enough for all of us that we made the right decision.


So sad, wishing a recovery for them.  We should all make the right decision and get vaccinated, it's free, easy and makes sense.


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## Sunny (Dec 18, 2021)

I think what we are seeing here is sheer stubbornness.  People don't like to admit they are wrong, they were led down the path to disease and death by narcissists and opportunists who were using their mockery of the disease for their own political ends. And it is my understanding that many of the high-profile antivaxxers just quietly went and got the vaccine themselves. 

You'd think people would be able to understand that they are being used. Which wouldn't be so bad if it only affected them, but obviously it is having dire effects on the whole world. 

By now, any rational adult should be able to see what is happening all around them, and realism should make it clear that it's time to change their minds and become part of the solution, instead of part of the problem. 

Hopefully, this new variant won't be as dangerous as the previous ones, and the majority of this country is vaccinated, which should help. But who knows what's down the road?  Will every new development, and everything science discovers about this disease, be met with the same snickering and sneering, as if we are all adolescents?  Bringing polio into the argument is a new low in desperate thinking. I can remember that epidemic. Americans were elated that we finally had something to fight that horrible disease with. I don't remember ever hearing of a smug group refusing the vaccine and denying the seriousness of the disease. Although I suppose there were a few "lunatic fringe" groups here and there who refused the vaccine. And some religions forbid any medical measures. But that was a tiny minority.


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## Alizerine (Dec 18, 2021)

win231 said:


> _"There was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines."_
> Your need for a scapegoat is interfering with your ability to think.  Unlike Covid vaccines, no one ever tried to force flu vaccines on anyone.  It was a personal choice - just as the Covid vaccine is a personal choice, despite your overpowering need to control & place blame.


Control of a virus is far superior to "out of control" which is where we are now. I don't blame the individuals who have fallen for the conspiracies but I do blame those who knew all along how dangerous it was but chose to sit back and enjoy the chaos.


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## chic (Dec 18, 2021)

Alizerine said:


> Control of a virus is far superior to "out of control" which is where we are now. I don't blame the individuals who have fallen for the conspiracies but I do blame those who knew all along how dangerous it was but chose to sit back and enjoy the chaos.


The only ones "enjoying the chaos" are those uneffected by it and inflicting it on others.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 18, 2021)

Sunny said:


> I think what we are seeing here is sheer stubbornness.  People don't like to admit they are wrong, they were led down the path to disease and death by narcissists and opportunists who were using their mockery of the disease for their own political ends. And it is my understanding that many of the high-profile antivaxxers just quietly went and got the vaccine themselves.
> 
> You'd think people would be able to understand that they are being used. Which wouldn't be so bad if it only affected them, but obviously it is having dire effects on the whole world.
> 
> ...


Well said Sunny, makes perfect sense!


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## HoneyNut (Dec 18, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> step up and do your part to stop this spread


Yes, I agree.  When the going gets tough you find out who has your back and who will work together for the success of the social group, versus who is for themselves only.


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## Aneeda72 (Dec 18, 2021)

As I read this thread, all I could think about is my son Joey.  And the meeting this last week when the heart surgeon told me that even if he needed immediate heart surgery for the tangerine sized cyst pressing on his heart and lung, he couldn’t have it.

Covid lungs.

Nearly destroyed lungs.  Luckily he had that CT, the surgeon says.  Now we know how bad his lungs are.  Yup, lucky.  Two vaccinations, breakthrough Covid in October, still on oxygen in December: and maybe on oxygen for the rest of his life.  A life which might not be long-a simple cold could kill him. Yup, lucky.  

Without the vaccinations, he would have died.  With the vaccinations, he lived.  He lives still.  I would give every thing I have for him to just have one more minute of time.  Everything.  I would trade my long lived life for his in a second-less than a second, for him to live another day, another year.

The reality is-children are dying.  The reality is-more children will die. Whether that child is five seconds old or 50 years old, matters not to the person that loves them.  The pain is just as great, the heartbreak just as overwhelming.  The sadness, oh the sadness, that sucks the joy out of everything in life as you try to give your child just one more happy day.

So.  I hate the conversation.  I am out of patience.  I am so very angry.  Maybe, as the non-vaccinated, but could be vaccinated, watch their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren die they will finally “get it”.  But I doubt it.  After all their life seems the only important thing to them.

Vaccines for Covid are free.

Hospitalizations for covid cost a fortune and cause the deaths of others as there is “no room at the Inn.”

Death, death is forever.


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## dseag2 (Dec 18, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> that's right i'm asking and i don't care who i upset. how much more pressure do we think can be placed on the medical system as a whole before things break completely down? how many more people have to die before people suck it up and stop whining and go get their shots and wear their masks and stop running all over the country spreading this crap? how long before people grow up and do the responsible thing? this video is what is happening in kansas right now and i'm sure it's worse in other places. stop and think about what will happen if you need to get emergency care and can't because the hospital has no room? guess what? you die. why? why do people not understand this? why do people fight this? there was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines. step up and do your part to stop this spread *if you're able to take the vaccine*. there's no excuse not to otherwise.


Marci, you rock!


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## dseag2 (Dec 18, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> As I read this thread, all I could think about is my son Joey.  And the meeting this last week when the heart surgeon told me that even if he needed immediate heart surgery for the tangerine sized cyst pressing on his heart and lung, he couldn’t have it.
> 
> Covid lungs.
> 
> ...


Aneeda, thank you for your post.  So pertinent and it really brings the point home.  I am personally heartbroken for everything you have been going through and continue to keep Joey in my thoughts.


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## Butterfly (Dec 19, 2021)

JaniceM said:


> I'd been wondering:  I'm not sure how many, but there are Seniors here who are much older and were around during the polio epidemic-  were people then going around going "Nobody can tell ME what to do!  I'm asserting my RIGHTS!  Gotta QUESTION AUTHORITY!"?
> Welllll, this wasn't called "the Me Generation" for nothing!!!  View attachment 199577



 I do remember polio and when the polio vaccine came out.  My sis and I got the original Salk shots and then the Sabin sugar cube thing when that came out.

People were overjoyed when the vaccine came out.  We stood in a long line to get the shots, and we didn't even fuss.  One of our friends had contracted polio and we were scared we'd get it. too.  Our friend got over the worst of it, but she was crippled for life as a result.


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## Butterfly (Dec 19, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> that's right i'm asking and i don't care who i upset. how much more pressure do we think can be placed on the medical system as a whole before things break completely down? how many more people have to die before people suck it up and stop whining and go get their shots and wear their masks and stop running all over the country spreading this crap? how long before people grow up and do the responsible thing? this video is what is happening in kansas right now and i'm sure it's worse in other places. stop and think about what will happen if you need to get emergency care and can't because the hospital has no room? guess what? you die. why? why do people not understand this? why do people fight this? there was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines. step up and do your part to stop this spread *if you're able to take the vaccine*. there's no excuse not to otherwise.


To use an antiquated phrase, "Right on, Sister!"


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## Butterfly (Dec 19, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It took years to develop the polio vaccine. It took months to develop the Covid vaccine.
> 
> 
> https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio



So?  Lotsa things took longer in the 40s and 50s.  Besides which, as I understand it, much of the basic research re covid type viruses had already been done and much ground work had been laid.  It wasn't like they were starting completely from scratch.


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## Aneeda72 (Dec 19, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> I do remember polio and when the polio vaccine came out.  My sis and I got the original Salk shots and then the Sabin sugar cube thing when that came out.
> 
> People were overjoyed when the vaccine came out.  We stood in a long line to get the shots, and we didn't even fuss.  One of our friends had contracted polio and we were scared we'd get it. too.  Our friend got over the worst of it, but she was crippled for life as a result.


I remember as well.  We were called into the house every time it rained, not allowed to play in the water as before.  We lined up at the local mall, with hundreds of other people, waited for hours to get that vaccine.  The prospect of living in an iron lung was terrifying for us all.


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## rgp (Dec 19, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> that's right i'm asking and i don't care who i upset. how much more pressure do we think can be placed on the medical system as a whole before things break completely down? how many more people have to die before people suck it up and stop whining and go get their shots and wear their masks and stop running all over the country spreading this crap? how long before people grow up and do the responsible thing? this video is what is happening in kansas right now and i'm sure it's worse in other places. stop and think about what will happen if you need to get emergency care and can't because the hospital has no room? guess what? you die. why? why do people not understand this? why do people fight this? there was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines. step up and do your part to stop this spread *if you're able to take the vaccine*. there's no excuse not to otherwise.



That's right I'm saying and i don't care who I upset ......... My body , my choice.


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## Ruthanne (Dec 19, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> that's right i'm asking and i don't care who i upset. how much more pressure do we think can be placed on the medical system as a whole before things break completely down? how many more people have to die before people suck it up and stop whining and go get their shots and wear their masks and stop running all over the country spreading this crap? how long before people grow up and do the responsible thing? this video is what is happening in kansas right now and i'm sure it's worse in other places. stop and think about what will happen if you need to get emergency care and can't because the hospital has no room? guess what? you die. why? why do people not understand this? why do people fight this? there was never this much of a fit thrown over flu vaccines. step up and do your part to stop this spread *if you're able to take the vaccine*. there's no excuse not to otherwise.


In my state the infections are overwhelming the hospitals.  Not as many are dying though according to reports.  

I don't know what the answers are.  Our Governor keeps trying.

I believe the vaccination rate in Ohio is about 54 percent.


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## Pepper (Dec 19, 2021)

rgp said:


> rgp said:
> 
> 
> > That's right I'm saying and i don't care who I upset ......... *My body , my choice.*


Get your own slogan, that's already taken.  Are you pro choice for female reproduction too?  That is what it means and I make sure no one forgets.


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## SeaBreeze (Dec 19, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> So?  Lotsa things took longer in the 40s and 50s.  Besides which, as I understand it, much of the basic research re covid type viruses had already been done and much ground work had been laid.  It wasn't like they were starting completely from scratch.


True.  Most of us know that already, some keep deaf ears and blind eyes, they are allergic to truth and facts.  They have been brainwashed by conspiracy.


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## Remy (Dec 19, 2021)

Of the 5 people who left my workplace when the vaccine mandate for my line of work went into effect, one got vaccinated and has returned. I was glad to see her. Another was supposedly going to get vaccinated and come back but there has been no sighting of her.

If you listen to a certain side of the media, radio and TV, the antivax is strong still.


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## rgp (Dec 19, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Get your own slogan, that's already taken.  Are you pro choice for female reproduction too?  That is what it means and I make sure no one forgets.



 It's just a statement ....... it belongs too no one.


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## Chet (Dec 19, 2021)

We always knew there were dick-heads in the world, but it took the pandemic for the anti-vaxxers to expose themselves as such.


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## Aneeda72 (Dec 19, 2021)

Chet said:


> We always knew there were dick-heads in the world, but it took the pandemic for the anti-vaxxers to expose themselves as such.


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## Aneeda72 (Dec 19, 2021)

rgp said:


> That's right I'm saying and i don't care who I upset ......... My body , my choice.


Are you pregnant?-and living in Texas?  Just curious


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## Jeni (Dec 19, 2021)

we are a year out from the a emergency approval of vaccines from all that took them gleefully the death rate should have gone down ....... they literally went up regardless of status. 


IF the vaccine worked as promised maybe some hesitant may have changed their minds but the reality is as noted by lets pay million more for booster after booster shows it is NOT working as promised..   COULD or MIGHT be mild is NOT a strong selling point.

part of the surges are caused by people who refuse to see that vaccinated can get  and spread and even die. 
Division and HATE campaigns ripping family and friends apart ..............FOR WHAT........ NO ONE wins.    
There are many items that people get on one side or another and then decide no matter what they are right ....ANYONE so ingrained and so UPSET about everyone else position should seek some help.


----------



## John cycling (Dec 19, 2021)

Shero said:


> I do not have smpathy for people who refuse to believe the science, people who have no regard that the human race is suffering a global pandemic and still they are determined to stick to their conspiracy theories. Makes me sick!



I completely agree!
Except what you're doing makes you sick, and what I'm doing keeps me healthy.

@Sunny, I'm healthy because I *don't* put the poisons in my body, the poisons that make you get sick.
That's also why I'm still able to think clearly, don't get confused, and don't get things bass-ackwards from reality.


----------



## Sunny (Dec 19, 2021)

Glad to hear you've finally gotten the vaccine, John. You are right, it's keeping you healthy.


----------



## win231 (Dec 19, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> Your posts make no sense, think about it.


No posts make sense to someone who has no sense.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Dec 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> No posts make sense to someone who has no sense.


Coming from you, means absolutely nothing.


----------



## Knight (Dec 19, 2021)

JaniceM said:


> I'd been wondering:  I'm not sure how many, but there are Seniors here who are much older and were around during the polio epidemic-  were people then going around going "Nobody can tell ME what to do!  I'm asserting my RIGHTS!  Gotta QUESTION AUTHORITY!"?
> Welllll, this wasn't called "the Me Generation" for nothing!!!  View attachment 199577


Not talked about is the fact that in Afghanistan & Pakistan polio still exists. Unvaccinated.

What some might have missed in the ops post was [If you are able to take the vaccine]  Able falls into different categories. Even rejecting it based on  an  individual choice. 

Is the vaccine a sure cure No but it can be a deterrent. Opting to deter makes sense to me, so getting vaccinated and a booster shot was our choice. Taking a chance that you will never need hospitalization due to c-19 or the variants is still a choice


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 19, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It took years to develop the polio vaccine. It took months to develop the Covid vaccine.
> 
> 
> https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio


I remember getting my first polio vaccine (Salk). It was by injection. Later a second vaccine was developed (Sabin) that could be taken as a syrup. Both were effective in beating back polio in children and young adults.

Back in the days of Jonas SalK technology was not as advanced as it is today. It was well before the lunar landings and computers were so big that they filled whole rooms but were feeble processors compared to today's equipment. The morphology of bacteria was well known and finding vaccines for bacterial infections and antibiotics to cure them was well developed science. However, viruses were another kettle of fish.

Today research laboratories are equipped with the very latest computerised equipment and from the time when SARS first appeared, the corona viruses have been studied extensively. Covid is a corona virus and its proper name is SARS‑CoV‑2. It is not an astonishing fact that the time needed to develop not one, but several effective vaccines for SARS-CoV-2, has been relatively short. It is the testing process that takes the most time. A few of the new vaccines were rejected for unwanted side effects. Those that made it through to mass production are probably as good as it gets and a lot better than no vaccine at all.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 19, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> https://www.pasadenahealthcenter.com/blog/coronavirus/the-polio-vaccine-rollout-vs-covid-rollout/


Pretty much what I have said in my own words. Thanks for corroboration. 
Vaccines for Covid have been developed quickly but not recklessly so.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Dec 19, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> I remember getting my first polio vaccine (Salk). It was by injection. Later a second vaccine was developed (Sabin) that could be taken as a syrup. Both were effective in beating back polio in children and young adults.
> 
> Back in the days of Jonas SalK technology was not as advanced as it is today. It was well before the lunar landings and computers were so big that they filled whole rooms but were feeble processors compared to today's equipment. The morphology of bacteria was well known and finding vaccines for bacterial infections and antibiotics to cure them was well developed science. However, viruses were another kettle of fish.
> 
> Today research laboratories are equipped with the very latest computerised equipment and from the time when SARS first appeared, the corona viruses have been studied extensively. Covid is a corona virus and its proper name is SARS‑CoV‑2. It is not an astonishing fact that the time needed to develop not one, but several effective vaccines for SARS-CoV-2, has been relatively short. It is the testing process that takes the most time. A few of the new vaccines were rejected for unwanted side effects. Those that made it through to mass production are probably as good as it gets and a lot better than no vaccine at all.


As usual Warri, thanks for your informative posts...much appreciated.


----------



## win231 (Dec 19, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> I remember getting my first polio vaccine (Salk). It was by injection. Later a second vaccine was developed (Sabin) that could be taken as a syrup. Both were effective in beating back polio in children and young adults.
> 
> Back in the days of Jonas SalK technology was not as advanced as it is today. It was well before the lunar landings and computers were so big that they filled whole rooms but were feeble processors compared to today's equipment. The morphology of bacteria was well known and finding vaccines for bacterial infections and antibiotics to cure them was well developed science. However, viruses were another kettle of fish.
> 
> Today research laboratories are equipped with the very latest computerised equipment and from the time when SARS first appeared, the corona viruses have been studied extensively. Covid is a corona virus and its proper name is SARS‑CoV‑2. It is not an astonishing fact that the time needed to develop not one, but several effective vaccines for SARS-CoV-2, has been relatively short. It is the testing process that takes the most time. A few of the new vaccines were rejected for unwanted side effects. Those that made it through to mass production are probably as good as it gets and a lot better than no vaccine at all.


So......if the vaccines work so well, why are they reporting several thousand new cases of Covid each day, (3,200 new cases yesterday), hospitals overrun & Fauci saying "Soon, hospitals won't be able to treat any more patients?


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 19, 2021)

Did I say they were 100% effective in the vaccinated?  I did not. 

What I can say is that they are zero% effective in the unvaccinated.


----------



## win231 (Dec 19, 2021)

Warrigal said:


> Did I say they were 100% effective in the vaccinated?  I did not.
> 
> What I can say is that they are zero% effective in the unvaccinated.


If we believe the numbers, the vaccine is 0% effective in both.


----------



## Devi (Dec 19, 2021)

There's also the data in VAERS — the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System — which shows _reported_ (reported, not all) vaccine adverse events (vaccine injuries):
https://openvaers.com/index.php

People who insist everyone get vaccinated may not be taking that into account (or be aware of it at all).


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> So......if the vaccines work so well, why are they reporting several thousand new cases of Covid each day, (3,200 new cases yesterday), hospitals overrun & Fauci saying "Soon, hospitals won't be able to treat any more patients?


The vaccines were meant for the original COVID-19


----------



## win231 (Dec 19, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> The vaccines were meant for the original COVID-19


They aren't specifying which vaccines or which mutation.
And they continue to say, "The best protection is to get vaccinated."
Does that make sense to you?


----------



## win231 (Dec 19, 2021)

Devi said:


> There's also the data in VAERS — the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System — which shows _reported_ (reported, not all) vaccine adverse events (vaccine injuries):
> https://openvaers.com/index.php
> 
> People who insist everyone get vaccinated may not be taking that into account (or be aware of it at all).


They're hoping most people are wired & programmed to see every vaccine & drug as a beneficial cure-all.
And they know fear sells by interfering with logic (for most).


----------



## Jeni (Dec 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> So......if the vaccines work so well, why are they reporting several thousand new cases of Covid each day, (3,200 new cases yesterday), hospitals overrun & Fauci saying "Soon, hospitals won't be able to treat any more patients?


because they give NO context they want people to assume it is ONLY those without shots.... IF that was true and it is NOT we would have run out of those without shots.... NO boosters would have EVER been needed etc

There are MANY unvaccinated who either....................... did not get it or had zero problems .....
go back in the time machine remember asymptomatic people..

Think of the work places who did and many who STILL use kiosks to take employees temps...... They were/ are  looking for ASYMPTOMATIC people by looking for a symptom .  Talk about not thinking something through.

So a close friend went in yesterday had a test this person has not left her home in 3 weeks her spouse has zero symptoms even without a shot.    her test said positive although the provider could not explain how since she had ZERO contact with others.
They said go home if you get worse go to hospital .............. that is IT ???

no try this medication or that one for cold like symptoms  / drink fluids stay hydrated  nope just by their calculations it should almost have ran its course but if she has trouble breathing head to a hospital .......

I saw the papers ZERO medical help or real advice
no test again in x amount of days .... no treatments recommended and guess what NO ONE ASKED HER SHOT STATUS
I would have expected a lecture from medical professionals and since most her communication was by phone as she sat in a parking lot I HEARD it NO pushing as hard as MEDIA AND politicians

QUIT fighting about a shot whose tagline seems to be _"better then nothin"  _
 Imagine how many other products  would you BUY with that A-PLUS advertising .... *car or health insurance...* hit and miss works  but "better then nothing"    perhaps *birth control, locks or security systems  or just any medical care. *


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 19, 2021)

win231 said:


> They aren't specifying which vaccines or which mutation.
> And they continue to say, "The best protection is to get vaccinated."
> Does that make sense to you?


It still protects from the original Covid-19 so yes.  It’s a crap shoot with Delta, and for sure with the new mutation that is so contagious.  It’s all we have @win231.  It’s better than nothing, in my opinion.  I have only one child, now, that has not had Covid.

I am sick with worry about my youngest son, Joey.  He can not get the booster shot till January 19, 2022.  I doubt he will ever come off oxygen.  . People compare Covid to the flu.  Millions have died from the flu.  Millions have died from Covid-19.  It’s all just too painful.


----------



## win231 (Dec 19, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> It still protects from the original Covid-19 so yes.  It’s a crap shoot with Delta, and for sure with the new mutation that is so contagious.  It’s all we have @win231.  It’s better than nothing, in my opinion.  I have only one child, now, that has not had Covid.
> 
> I am sick with worry about my youngest son, Joey.  He can not get the booster shot till January 19, 2022.  I doubt he will ever come off oxygen.  . People compare Covid to the flu.  Millions have died from the flu.  Millions have died from Covid-19.  It’s all just too painful.


Yes, it's terrible when Covid makes someone sick; just as it's terrible when any illness makes someone sick.
But that doesn't mean the vaccine is effective.  Obviously it isn't effective for everyone.
And that doesn't mean it's anyone's fault that someone (vaccinated or unvaccinated) gets sick from it.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 19, 2021)

Jeni said:


> because they give NO context they want people to assume it is ONLY those without shots.... IF that was true and it is NOT we would have run out of those without shots.... NO boosters would have EVER been needed etc
> 
> There are MANY unvaccinated who either....................... did not get it or had zero problems .....
> go back in the time machine remember asymptomatic people..
> ...


Some people without Covid test positive, some people with Covid test negative.  We have known this from the beginning.  Covid is different in every person.  What advice do you think she should have gotten?

Drink, eat, rest, come back if you can’t breathe.  By now the whole world knows this routine.  What did you expect?   The medical profession is worn out.  They expect people to use their brains.


----------



## Jeni (Dec 19, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Some people without Covid test positive, some people with Covid test negative.  We have known this from the beginning.  Covid is different in every person.  What advice do you think she should have gotten?
> 
> Drink, eat, rest, come back if you can’t breathe.  By now the whole world knows this routine.  What did you expect?   The medical profession is worn out.  They expect people to use their brains.


that was the whole point if you read it  ...... NO advice other then go to hospital if worse
the common sense  BASICS i spoke of *not *even mentioned for those so concerned perhaps we should be demanding TREATMENTS ..
In fact some are being held UP because they think some wont GET their magic vaccine if REAL treatments are available
There have been those who did  better from the beginning perhaps studying that could have us in a much better place


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 19, 2021)

I a


win231 said:


> Yes, it's terrible when Covid makes someone sick; just as it's terrible when any illness makes someone sick.
> But that doesn't mean the vaccine is effective.  Obviously it isn't effective for everyone.
> And that doesn't mean it's anyone's fault that someone (vaccinated or unvaccinated) gets sick from it.


I agree.  I know exactly who he got Covid from.  A young lady with DS who he had been friends with for ages, and she attended his same workplace.  She did not need hospitalization.  She was vaccinated as well.  Both her parents got Covid.  It was not her fault.  I don’t blame her.

I, however, visited my son on the Covid ward for four days and sat with him for a time in the ER. I visited him at his house, every day as well, while he had active Covid and was contagious.  Then I waited the required 7 days and didn’t see him, got tested, tested negative.

I think the vaccinations help, but I think you get it or you don’t.  He got it.  I did not.  I wish I had gotten it instead of him.  Wish I could trade places with him.  But wishes are useless, and I am helpless in this situation.  . And that is the hardest thing of all, the inability to help your loved one.

The total absolute uselessness of those of us who do not have Covid.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 19, 2021)

Jeni said:


> that was the whole point if you read it  ...... NO advice other then go to hospital if worse
> the common sense  BASICS i spoke of *not *even mentioned for those so concerned perhaps we should be demanding TREATMENTS ..
> In fact some are being held UP because they think some wont GET their magic vaccine if REAL treatments are available
> There have been those who did  better from the beginning perhaps studying that could have us in a much better place


Yes, I know how to read.

Go ahead-demand treatment.  Your demand will get you NOTHING.  Treatment and medication are reserved for the people who NEED it.


----------



## Flaneuse (Dec 19, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It took years to develop the polio vaccine. It took months to develop the Covid vaccine.
> 
> 
> https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio


And your point is....?


----------



## dseag2 (Dec 19, 2021)

Flaneuse, I see you are new member.  Welcome!

I am a recent member, and my advice is not to get too passionate or accusatory about this topic because it will get you nowhere.  I responded in a similar manner when I first joined.  I've seen no one on this forum "switch sides" in their viewpoints on Covid and the vaccines due to anyone else's response.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your viewpoint and you are free to share it, but not in the way you have presented it.  Just be careful that you don't call people names like "stupid".  That could get you banned from the forum, and we want you here.

You may also find that there are some topics that you agree upon with members in the other forums that you may not agree upon in the Covid forums.  I may not agree with Becky in this thread, but I may agree with her in other threads.  We can all find common ground.


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## Devi (Dec 19, 2021)

Plus there are the Report button, and the Ignore button.


----------



## Butterfly (Dec 19, 2021)

rgp said:


> It's just a statement ....... it belongs too no one.



Well, if you believe that a person has absolute control of their own body, as in "My body, my choice," then it must apply to all choices one makes about their own body -- including the right to have an abortion.  You can't have it both ways.


----------



## Becky1951 (Dec 20, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Well, if you believe that a person has absolute control of their own body, as in "My body, my choice," then it must apply to all choices one makes about their own body -- including the right to have an abortion.  You can't have it both ways.


My goodness everybody is so touchy. rgp wasn't trying to steal a saying my body my choice. Nor was he laying exclusive rights to use that saying. I'm sure someone some where in the 1700's, 1800's or before has said my body my choice when regarding something to do about their body.  Anyone has the right to use that saying, it doesn't take away from its use or meaning regarding abortion.


----------



## Warrigal (Dec 20, 2021)

Had reason to visit my GP (non covid related) and was able to make appointments for Wednesday week for our third Covid jabs (boosters). We could have had them in two days but too close to Christmas and too busy. In the meantime I am being extra cautious because I am hosting my family on Boxing Day and there is no way I want to be told to self isolate if I come into contact with someone who has Covid.

Infection rates are climbing alarmingly in my state right now. We had it beaten right down until the borders were reopened and omicron came to stay. This is going on as restrictions about masks, social distancing and QR code checkins are no longer mandatory. Our vaccine/booster programs have been too slow off the mark and young people are throwing caution to the winds intent on having a good time celebrating the Summer holidays without a care in the world. It is a big worry and 2022 is going to be sad and difficult for many.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 20, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Well, if you believe that a person has absolute control of their own body, as in "My body, my choice," then it must apply to all choices one makes about their own body -- including the right to have an abortion.  You can't have it both ways.


I absolutely believe that @rpg has a right to an abortion.  . RPG will probably have to leave Texas to get one. .  However, rpg should “coin” an original slogan “my body, my choice” is already in use.

Plus I thought rpg was male and, no matter what his sex, too old to get pregnant.  But I’ve been wrong before.  So, congrats rpg.  Are you hoping for a boy or a girl?


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 20, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> My goodness everybody is so touchy. rgp wasn't trying to steal a saying my body my choice. Nor was he laying exclusive rights to use that saying. I'm sure someone some where in the 1700's, 1800's or before has said my body my choice when regarding something to do about their body.  Anyone has the right to use that saying, it doesn't take away from its use or meaning regarding abortion.


Well, he stole it and now he’s stuck with it.  There are some labels you just can’t get rid of no matter how hard you try.  He is SF’s “my body my choice” poster guy.  So, I agree @Becky1951.  He can use that phrase as much as he wants.


----------



## rgp (Dec 20, 2021)

Chet said:


> We always knew there were dick-heads in the world, but it took the pandemic for the anti-vaxxers to expose themselves as such.




 When one of limited intelligence runs out of reasonable thought & retort to a discussion , they quite often ...... as displayed here ....... resort to gutter talk & name calling.

Do you know any of the reasons that a person might have for refusing the jab ? I'll venture a guess that you do not ..... Above all your opinion should be all important & your way should be the only way. Correct ?


----------



## rgp (Dec 20, 2021)

Butterfly said:


> Well, if you believe that a person has absolute control of their own body, as in "My body, my choice," then it must apply to all choices one makes about their own body -- including the right to have an abortion.  You can't have it both ways.




I believe they *should* have that choice !


----------



## rgp (Dec 20, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> My goodness everybody is so touchy. rgp wasn't trying to steal a saying my body my choice. Nor was he laying exclusive rights to use that saying. I'm sure someone some where in the 1700's, 1800's or before has said my body my choice when regarding something to do about their body.  Anyone has the right to use that saying, it doesn't take away from its use or meaning regarding abortion.



 Very well said ........ And Thank You.


----------



## rgp (Dec 20, 2021)

From what I keep hearing, this new variant is much more contagious but .... not near as severe. It is said that it is not much [if any] worse than a cold. And yet they keep saying that the hospitals are again becoming over crowded to the point that some states are calling out the National Guard ??!! 

So ..... people are flooding the hospitals because they have a bad cold ?!

And just what is the N/Guard supposed to do ? Doing ?


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 20, 2021)

rgp said:


> From what I keep hearing, this new variant is much more contagious but .... not near as severe. It is said that it is not much [if any] worse than a cold. And yet they keep saying that the hospitals are again becoming over crowded to the point that some states are calling out the National Guard ??!!
> 
> So ..... people are flooding the hospitals because they have a bad cold ?!
> 
> And just what is the N/Guard supposed to do ? Doing ?


The national guard has doctors, nurses, and a complete range of medical personnel that can be deployed to the places were they are needed most.  The National Guard is “supposed” to do as they are ordered to do.  They cannot “quit”as some medical personnel have.

They can, of course, refuse to obey orders and go to jail for that refusal.  After all it’s their body and their choice  as to how they spend the rest of their life.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 20, 2021)

rgp said:


> When one of limited intelligence runs out of reasonable thought & retort to a discussion , they quite often ...... as displayed here ....... resort to gutter talk & name calling.
> 
> Do you know any of the reasons that a person might have for refusing the jab ? I'll venture a guess that you do not ..... Above all your opinion should be all important & your way should be the only way. Correct ?


And they use words like “limited intelligence” and infer that people don’t know “how to read”, , while using phrases that relate to other matters.  . People that live in glass houses should not throw stones, just my opinion, of course.


----------



## rgp (Dec 20, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> And they use words like “limited intelligence” and infer that people don’t know “how to read”, , while using phrases that relate to other matters.  . People that live in glass houses should not throw stones, just my opinion, of course.



 Limited intelligence is ........ two words . I never infered that anyone didn't know how to read. Many phrases refer to many matters . No glass house here. ..... jmo.


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 20, 2021)

rgp said:


> Limited intelligence is ........ two words . I never infered that anyone didn't know how to read. Many phrases refer to many matters . No glass house here. ..... jmo.


So I said “words”, which means more than one word which means two or more words so what do you mean?  And not all comments made refer to you.  Everyone lives in a glass house @rgp or are you claiming to be perfect?  Cause that would be a whole new conversation


----------



## Chet (Dec 20, 2021)

rgp said:


> When one of limited intelligence runs out of reasonable thought & retort to a discussion , they quite often ...... as displayed here ....... resort to gutter talk & name calling.
> 
> Do you know any of the reasons that a person might have for refusing the jab ? I'll venture a guess that you do not ..... Above all your opinion should be all important & your way should be the only way. Correct ?


I agree I was a bit strong with my message and I meant no offense, but the unvaccinated are hosts where mutations like omicron can occur when they get covid, and if mutations keep occurring, we'll never be done with it. My apologies for my language.


----------



## charry (Dec 20, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> It took years to develop the polio vaccine. It took months to develop the Covid vaccine.
> 
> 
> https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio


Exactly Becky.......you’ve just hit the nail  on the head.......


And also marciks .....Im fed up and sick to death , of seeing my friends who have had this poison stuck in them, for others peoples benefit , slowing dying ,and very ill !! And dead !!


----------



## charry (Dec 20, 2021)

Shero said:


> You are unbelievable Becky.  It is quite clear you  know nothing of the steps  vaccine development goes through in  our modern scientific times.  Yet!! you argue, why? is it because you do not want to help humanity? what is your real reason?
> 
> The covid vaccine already had a blueprint and was more than half way, much more than Sars had. Vaccines, like any scientific studies, do not start from scratch, they build on each other, so fruition comes quicker.
> 
> ...


It looks to me  Shero, that you also know nothing about the development either........!!!

Go ahead and have this poison inserted into you, the booster only took a month to produce , because the other 2 vaccines were useless.............next.....another variant........then another booster............Are you gonna keep having these top ups of useless serum ??

Helping humanity ! You say ?     Humanity doesn't want to help itself , it seems to me !!


----------



## Aneeda72 (Dec 20, 2021)

charry said:


> It looks to me  Shero, that you also know nothing about the development either........!!!
> 
> Go ahead and have this poison inserted into you, the booster only took a month to produce , because the other 2 vaccines were useless.............next.....another variant........then another booster............Are you gonna keep having these top ups of useless serum ??
> 
> Helping humanity ! You say ?     Humanity doesn't want to help itself , it seems to me !!


I, for one, will keep having as many boosters as possible or needed.  As will my children.  I do not feel as if I have been poisoned so while the vaccines may be poisonous to you, they are not poisonous to me.  The booster “did not take only a month to produce”. . The booster is the same formula as the original shots so it was already ”produced” and is continually made.

I will tell you what is poisonous when it enters your body.  COVID is poisonous.


----------



## rgp (Dec 20, 2021)

Chet said:


> I agree I was a bit strong with my message and I meant no offense, but the unvaccinated are hosts where mutations like omicron can occur when they get covid, and if mutations keep occurring, we'll never be done with it. My apologies for my language.




 "unvaccinated are hosts" ?

 How is it then that Elizabeth Warren was vaxxed & boosted & still caught the Omicron variant ?

 How did a friend of mine , who was vaxxed just die from Covid ?

 It appears too me that the vaccination may not be all it is said to be .......... in terms of protection.


----------



## rgp (Dec 20, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> The national guard has doctors, nurses, and a complete range of medical personnel that can be deployed to the places were they are needed most.  The National Guard is “supposed” to do as they are ordered to do.  They cannot “quit”as some medical personnel have.
> 
> They can, of course, refuse to obey orders and go to jail for that refusal.  After all it’s their body and their choice  as to how they spend the rest of their life.



 How is the N/Guard going to help the [so-called] hospital bed shortage ? Which the news claims is the purpose for their call out . And again, why are people flooding hospitals for what appeasrs to be nothing more than a severe cold? .........[speaking of the new variant]


----------



## John cycling (Dec 20, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Everyone lives in a glass house @rgp or are you claiming to be perfect?



I don't live in a glass house and don't put poisons in my body either.   



Aneeda72 said:


> I do not feel as if I have been poisoned so while the vaccines may be poisonous to you, they are not poisonous to me.



That's only your perception, not a fact.  The fact is that the so called vaccinations do contain well known poisons.



Aneeda72 said:


> I will tell you what is poisonous when it enters your body.  COVID is poisonous.



Covid is not a poison, and has never been isolated apart from human genetic material.  Therefore, if it does exist,
then it is and always has been a natural and beneficial part of human genetic material, <-- and therefore can't be a virus.



Sunny said:


> how do explain the fact that there are 20 times the number of deaths from Covid among the unvaccinated, as opposed to the vaccinated? (That was on the news yesterday.)  Nearly all the severe cases and deaths are among the unvaccinated.  The people flooding the hospitals are the unvaccinated.



That's easy to explain by the fact that you make up lies and post them like they're facts, like the one you told about me yesterday.


----------



## rgp (Dec 20, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I, for one, will keep having as many boosters as possible or needed.  As will my children.  I do not feel as if I have been poisoned so while the vaccines may be poisonous to you, they are not poisonous to me.  The booster “did not take only a month to produce”. . The booster is the same formula as the original shots so it was already ”produced” and is continually made.
> 
> I will tell you what is poisonous when it enters your body.  COVID is poisonous.




  "so while the vaccines may be poisonous to you, they are not poisonous to me. "

 Exactly !!! And that is where choices are made. If a person [you for example] feels it is right for you .... then by all means take it. I and I'm sure all others here wish the very best for you.

 All I say is give those that choose not to the same courtesy of choice.


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## win231 (Dec 20, 2021)

Chet said:


> I agree I was a bit strong with my message and I meant no offense, but the unvaccinated are hosts where mutations like omicron can occur when they get covid, and if mutations keep occurring, we'll never be done with it. My apologies for my language.


You aren't a bit strong.
You're just a dickhead.


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## Sunny (Dec 20, 2021)

win231 said:


> If we believe the numbers, the vaccine is 0% effective in both.


Really, Win?  So then, how do explain the fact that there are 20 times the number of deaths from Covid among the unvaccinated, as opposed to the vaccinated? (That was on the news yesterday.)

How many times must it be repeated?  Yes, if you are vaccinated, you can get a breakthrough (mild) case. Nearly all the severe cases and deaths are among the unvaccinated.  The people flooding the hospitals are the unvaccinated. Read the statistics, man.


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## win231 (Dec 20, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Really, Win?  So then, how do explain the fact that there are 20 times the number of deaths from Covid among the unvaccinated, as opposed to the vaccinated? (That was on the news yesterday.)
> 
> How many times must it be repeated?  Yes, if you are vaccinated, you can get a breakthrough (mild) case. Nearly all the severe cases and deaths are among the unvaccinated.  The people flooding the hospitals are the unvaccinated. Read the statistics, man.


The "News" people report whatever they are told to report.  Doesn't make it true........unless you're OK with being programmed.  Which you obviously are.
Dolly Parton also sang a song about getting vaccinated.  Does that make her qualified to give medical advice?
I'm selling some valuable land in the desert.  Can I interest you in it?


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## Chet (Dec 20, 2021)

win231 said:


> You aren't a bit strong.
> You're just a dickhead.


Well said.


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## Aneeda72 (Dec 20, 2021)

rgp said:


> How is the N/Guard going to help the [so-called] hospital bed shortage ? Which the news claims is the purpose for their call out . And again, why are people flooding hospitals for what appeasrs to be nothing more than a severe cold? .........[speaking of the new variant]


OMGosh, think before you write or learn to Google.

The military and the National Guard have, wait for it, hospital tents.  Used to be called MASH units have no ideal what they are called now.  The Red Cross also has these.  These units come with beds and operating rooms and most everything else needed.

How do you think deployed military get ER medical care when deployed to other countries and on a battlefield?  How do you think Doctors Without Borders operate?  Where have you been all your life that you do not know this?  And, if you do now know this stuff, why are you writing about it?


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## Aneeda72 (Dec 20, 2021)

rgp said:


> "so while the vaccines may be poisonous to you, they are not poisonous to me. "
> 
> Exactly !!! And that is where choices are made. If a person [you for example] feels it is right for you .... then by all means take it. I and I'm sure all others here wish the very best for you.
> 
> All I say is give those that choose not to the same courtesy of choice.


Who has stopped you from not getting the vaccine?  No one, NO ONE cares if you get the vaccine or not.  No one is going to grab you, throw you in the trunk of their car, and force the vaccine on you.

NO ONE CARES.  I don’t care.  Your neighbors don’t care.  People on SF don’t care.  You are old.  No one cares about the elderly.  Get it, don’t get it.  Get sick, don’t get sick.  Die or don’t die.  Very few people will notice.  That is the reality of our age group.

*No one cares.  Except our family, and sometimes even they don’t care.*

Most of the vaccinated will survive.  Most of the unvaccinated will not.  Nature will choose.  As for my son Joey, he is genetically different from the general population.  I suspect that is one of the issues in why he had breakthrough Covid.  But I do not know.


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## Aneeda72 (Dec 20, 2021)

win231 said:


> The "News" people report whatever they are told to report.  Doesn't make it true........unless you're OK with being programmed.  Which you obviously are.
> Dolly Parton also sang a song about getting vaccinated.  Does that make her qualified to give medical advice?
> I'm selling some valuable land in the desert.  Can I interest you in it?


Depends, does it have water?  Gold?  Silver?


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## Aneeda72 (Dec 20, 2021)

win231 said:


> You aren't a bit strong.
> You're just a dickhead.


 really @win231?  Sometimes you are so disappointing


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