# Unvaccinated Who Have Fallen For Disinformation and Conspiracies Continue to Die From Covid-19



## SeaBreeze (Sep 22, 2021)

A 24 year old man just died in the hospital from Covid.  Like many others who have fallen for myths and lies about the coronavirus and vaccines, he said the shots were poison and didn't take any of the facts about the deadly pandemic seriously.  He spoke a bit before his death in the hospital, shown in link.

I recently heard on the local news about a mother of four who also was unvaccinated and died from Covid-19.  She was an anti-vaxxer and Covid denier too.  She did more harm to others because she was an activist who repeated posted false information about the virus and vaccines on social media, called the shots poison, bragged about her freedumb, etc.  Her kids have no mom now, hopefully they are smarter than she was, I just looked online to find her story, but couldn't.  May all who lost their lives to this deadly pandemic, vaccinated or not, rest in peace.

Our medical workers are worn out dealing with so many who refuse vaccines, overflow hospitals, take up beds needed by others, spread the virus, etc.  That young man isn't the first one who finally spoke out while near death in the hospital.  Too little too late to get this crucial message out.  If we don't wake up and work together on fighting the spread of this disease, life will never get back to normal.  Can't believe how many are fooled by conspiracies and myths.

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/2...-to-get-vaccinated-dies-of-covid-121649221619


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## Jackie23 (Sep 22, 2021)

Yes, very true, Seabreeze, it is unbelievable that people will believe these lies over science and the cold hard facts of statistics.


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## feywon (Sep 22, 2021)

Since you opened this can of worms i was going to post a video i saw a few days ago of  Comedian, radio show/podcast host/author D.L. Hughley, a Covid-19 Survivor (who actually spread it to his team before he collapsed on stage ill with it).   In it he talks about how it took centuries to eradicate Smallpox, but it was thanks to a vaccine, Polio is a thing of the past in USA thanks to a vaccine--it took decades but it happened, and then pleading with folks to take the Covid Vaccines.

But weirdly i can't find it either on YT or on the FB group i could have sworn i'd seen it on, will try again later--i have an appointment at 11. Oh but this story about backlash from some about his broadcast, which includes a lot of the stuff that stood out to me as good points.


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## Judycat (Sep 22, 2021)

Yes I saw Mr. Burshia's spot on Brian Williams show last night. He sounded like he was looking forward to getting out of the hospital. Then when Brian Williams said he died it was quite a shock. Poor guy.


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## Sunny (Sep 22, 2021)

If you're able to open this Washington Post article, it's worth reading, though heartbreaking. It describes the sacrifices and personal suffering being endured by medical personnel, and how many of them are getting burned out. Nearly all the Covid-19 patients are unvaccinated (of course!), there are not enough beds for other patients, and the medical staff are risking their own health and the health of their families at home. It never seems to end, or even improve much, as there are still too many who refuse vaccination and become critically ill.  One doctor says, "Empathy fatigue is a real thing."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/20/hospitals-dc-covid-increase-healthcare-workers/


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## Jackie23 (Sep 22, 2021)

The link below has info on breakthrough cases below..

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
Hospitalized or fatal COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC as of September 13, 2021

As of September 13, 2021, more than 178 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-1

During the same time, CDC received reports from 49 U.S. states and territories of 15,790 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.

....also below that was a chart with a break down of the 15,790 breakthrough cases and 3040 deaths, most were people over 65.


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## MarciKS (Sep 22, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> A 24 year old man just died in the hospital from Covid.  Like many others who have fallen for myths and lies about the coronavirus and vaccines, he said the shots were poison and didn't take any of the facts about the deadly pandemic seriously.  He spoke a bit before his death in the hospital, shown in link.
> 
> I recently heard on the local news about a mother of four who also was unvaccinated and died from Covid-19.  She was an anti-vaxxer and Covid denier too.  She did more harm to others because she was an activist who repeated posted false information about the virus and vaccines on social media, called the shots poison, bragged about her freedumb, etc.  Her kids have no mom now, hopefully they are smarter than she was, I just looked online to find her story, but couldn't.  May all who lost their lives to this deadly pandemic, vaccinated or not, rest in peace.
> 
> ...


Also the more cases we get the more contact we are going to have which means more internal infections and even more staffing shortages.

Also Kansas hospitals are starting to have difficulties getting oxygen shipments.


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## Nosy Bee-54 (Sep 22, 2021)

Not only hurting humans but also livestock.

https://sports.yahoo.com/horse-owners-struggling-buy-ivermectin-152346882.html


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 22, 2021)

Jackie23 said:


> The link below has info on breakthrough cases below..
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
> Hospitalized or fatal COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC as of September 13, 2021
> ...



Those numbers would be in line with the stated efficacy rates for the vaccine.  I will say this, I am surprised by the number of people I know personally who have experienced breakthrough infections -- usually fairly mild cases but it's still disturbing.


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## Jackie23 (Sep 22, 2021)

I don't know what percentage 15,790 is of 178 million, but looks very very small.

We were told up front what the success rate was with the different laboratories making these vaccines......none were 100%.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 22, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> Also the more cases we get the more contact we are going to have which means more internal infections and even more staffing shortages.
> 
> Also Kansas hospitals are starting to have difficulties getting oxygen shipments.


You know better than many of us here Marci.  I agree, it's making a bad situation worse, but some people don't care or have been badly brainwashed by the nonsense spreading on biased conspiracy sites or dark areas of social media like facebook.  They affect _everyone _when they don't think sensibly and act responsibility.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 22, 2021)

Jackie23 said:


> I don't know what percentage 15,790 is of 178 million, but looks very very small.
> 
> We were told up front what the success rate was with the different laboratories making these vaccines......none were 100%.


We knew the effectiveness wasn't 100% a long time ago, but if infected after the shot, chances are a milder case that wouldn't lead to hospitalization and death....good enough for me.  We have a friend who gets annual flu shots religiously, every few years he gets a mild case of the flu.  Very few things are 100%.


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## Remy (Sep 22, 2021)

I watched someone in the military stating how he would never get the vaccine. No mention of all the vaccines I'm sure he got prior. I wonder why this one is so politicalized and polarizing.


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## Nathan (Sep 22, 2021)

Remy said:


> I watched someone in the military stating how he would never get the vaccine. No mention of all the vaccines I'm sure he got prior.* I wonder why this one is so politicalized and polarizing.*


I think it's safe to say that the previous POTUS had a hand in this.


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## Irwin (Sep 22, 2021)

The population of Alabama has actually decreased over the past year due to covid deaths. They have one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country (and also one of the lowest rates of higher education attainment). Deaths and people moving out of the state have exceeded births and people moving into the state.

I'll bet property is cheap down there. Considering the housing shortage and the ability of many people to work remotely, it might be a good time to invest in land in Alabama.


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## Irwin (Sep 22, 2021)

Remy said:


> I watched someone in the military stating how he would never get the vaccine. No mention of all the vaccines I'm sure he got prior. I wonder why this one is so politicalized and polarizing.


Everything is politicized these days, even a deadly virus. It's ridiculous! But that's the world in which we live.


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## MrPants (Sep 22, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> We knew the effectiveness wasn't 100% a long time ago, but if infected after the shot, chances are a milder case that wouldn't lead to hospitalization and death....good enough for me.  We have a friend who gets annual flu shots religiously, every few years he gets a mild case of the flu.  Very few things are 100%.


Yes indeed! Very few things are 100%. Let's just for fun compare the Covid Vaccine issue to when seatbelts in automobile was first introduced. Many similarities perhaps?


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## MarciKS (Sep 22, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> You know better than many of us here Marci.  I agree, it's making a bad situation worse, but some people don't care or have been badly brainwashed by the nonsense spreading on biased conspiracy sites or dark areas of social media like facebook.  They affect _everyone _when they don't think sensibly and act responsibility.


one of our unvaccinated coworkers has it right now. she's been to work spreading it around. i'm gonna be so mad if i get sick and have a $20,000 hospital bill (if i don't die) because of her.


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## win231 (Sep 22, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> one of our unvaccinated coworkers has it right now. she's been to work spreading it around. i'm gonna be so mad if i get sick and have a $20,000 hospital bill (if i don't die) because of her.


Sue her.


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## win231 (Sep 22, 2021)

MrPants said:


> Yes indeed! Very few things are 100%. Let's just for fun compare the Covid Vaccine issue to when seatbelts in automobile was first introduced. Many similarities perhaps?
> View attachment 185169


If only it was that simple.
And if only the comparison was valid.


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## Don M. (Sep 22, 2021)

This virus is NOT going away, any time soon....and it will probably continue to mutate into different forms.  While there are certainly those who, because of underlying conditions, cannot be helped by these vaccines....the vast majority of people sharply reduce their risk by getting vaccinated.  

In recent days, the rates of infections seem to be going down, in many locales....but this is probably just a "breather" before the next wave hits.

Watching these NFL football games on TV....with 70,000+ fans filling the stadiums, standing shoulder to shoulder, and shouting, I'll be surprised if this doesn't lead to another spike.


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## Warrigal (Sep 22, 2021)

Remy said:


> I watched someone in the military stating how he would never get the vaccine. No mention of all the vaccines I'm sure he got prior. I wonder why this one is so politicalized and polarizing.


Good question. 

The same thing is happening in Australia because of misinformation that has never been so prevalent. There have always been some people who could not be given certain vaccines, usually because of a severe allergy to something in the serum. People allergic to eggs for example could not receive serums where the pathogen was incubated in chicken eggs. This does not mean that the vaccine was 'poisonous' to everyone. It is not unusual to have a mild reaction to a vaccine. It is natural for the immune system to get to work. That is what the vaccine is supposed to do. This also is not proof that the vaccine is poisonous.

Trials are carried out to establish the positive and negative effects of vaccines compared to not being vaccinated at all. When the positives greatly outweigh the negatives and not being vaccinated, then for a really serious disease like Covid - 19 Delta, the choice is a no brainer as far as I am concerned. However, there is always some risk, just like the risk we  willingly take every time we hail a taxi or board an aeroplane.


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## Warrigal (Sep 22, 2021)

This table shows the current percentages of vaccinations per age range in Canberra, the national capital city.


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## Tish (Sep 22, 2021)

We have had the "Freedom Fighters" over here protesting that has turned to violence.
I am so glad I live in a rural area and far away from both Sydney and Melbourne.
This damn virus is here to stay, the sooner people realize that we have to live with it and get vaccinated the sooner things can return to this New Normal that we have been living with since this $hit Show begun.


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## Buckeye (Sep 23, 2021)

The young man in the OP was probably on various social media making all the usual nonsensical anti-vaxx claims until he became ill.  Funny how a "come to Jesus" event will change your tune.


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## Remy (Sep 23, 2021)

@Nathan Many believe he is still affecting people and I think that is true. I have heard there are some people who watch no news, they just get their information from very narrow online sources.

@Irwin I'd look into Alabama if I could move. I'd have to take 6 cats with me though. My two and the four ferals at work. And I heard about that statistic on the radio yesterday. Crazy.


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## Remy (Sep 23, 2021)

MarciKS said:


> one of our unvaccinated coworkers has it right now. she's been to work spreading it around. i'm gonna be so mad if i get sick and have a $20,000 hospital bill (if i don't die) because of her.


OMG!   I hope you will be OK.

Have you been wearing a mask. My face has been inches from covid patients at work and I'm yet to get it. I'm vaccinated.


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## Judycat (Sep 23, 2021)

I watched a piece on Brian Williams show last night showing clips from school board meetings and the stupid stuff people were saying about vaccinations and mask wearing. It is so embarrassing to be an American.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440756661098930185


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## Murrmurr (Sep 23, 2021)

Nathan said:


> I think it's safe to say that the previous POTUS had a hand in this.


Or was it the opponents of the previous POTUS ?


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## Dancing_Queen (Sep 23, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> We knew the effectiveness wasn't 100% a long time ago, but if infected after the shot, chances are a milder case that wouldn't lead to hospitalization and death....good enough for me.  We have a friend who gets annual flu shots religiously, every few years he gets a mild case of the flu.  Very few things are 100%.


We also know that NO vaccine is 100% effective.

This is anecdotal, but I'll tell it here.  As soon as the original Shingles vaccine came out, I got it.  As soon as the newer version (two-dose) one came out, I got it.  Between the first and the second types of vaccines I was in my doctor's office and was on the way out the door of his treatment room.  He was still there.  I turned around and said, "By the way, what's this slight rash I have?"  He told me it was shingles and prescribed treatment.  Yes, I got a breakthrough infection; yes, I didn't even realize it because it was so slight.  It happens with all vaccines unless (smallpox) the disease has been eradicated.


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## Dancing_Queen (Sep 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> If only it was that simple.
> And if only the comparison was valid.


In what way is the comparison invalid, please, Win?


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## Dancing_Queen (Sep 23, 2021)

I volunteer for a local professional theater and was there last night.  Their website said one thing; they were actually much more strict.  Everyone working there including volunteers had to show proof of full vaccination which went to their security person.  Everyone in the theater had to wear masks.  Beginning in October all patrons will have to be fully vaccinated.  I was able to see almost all in the audience and I didn't see a single mask out of position during the whole show.  They're not using their small theater at all this season because the large theater is much roomier.  There was audience participation in last night's comedy show.  At one point the participant and the actor were supposed to have held hands; they held opposite ends of a pool noodle.  The theater did things right and so did the audience.  Kudos!


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## win231 (Sep 23, 2021)

Dancing_Queen said:


> In what way is the comparison invalid, please, Win?


Really?  You need an explanation?   Well.....OK, if you insist.
Common sense indicates that seat belts save lives & can prevent serious injury.  They've been here for 50-60 years.  I never needed a mandate or law to wear one.
A new experimental vaccine is a different story.


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## debodun (Sep 23, 2021)

There was a blurb on the local news about a teacher that was fired for refusing to get tested or vaccinated.


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## Dancing_Queen (Sep 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> Really?  You need an explanation?   Well.....OK, if you insist.
> Common sense indicates that seat belts save lives & can prevent serious injury.  They've been here for 50-60 years.  I never needed a mandate or law to wear one.
> A new experimental vaccine is a different story.


Pfizer is no longer experimental; therefore, this part of your argument is now moot.  Moderna and J&J are about to submit for full authorization; very shortly thereafter all of the vaccines available in the U.S. will have full authorization.  Viral vector vaccines (J&J) have been around "forever;" if you've ever had any vaccine, it was quite probably a viral vector one.  Also, the mRNA technology has been around for a very long time.  Here's its history:  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w .

So, since you wouldn't take the vaccine because it was experimental and "new," you can now feel good about taking it.


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## John cycling (Sep 23, 2021)

SeaBreeze said:


> A 24 year old man just died in the hospital from Covid.  Like many others who have fallen for myths and lies



That video is total BS.      That guy's an actor. 
No one who hasn't been poisoned by the vaccinations has ever died from a covid virus.  

The historical search for a virus has not even been able to find one of them that exists.
https://odysee.com/@Boughies:8/Nocorona:e? <-- So all of this nonsense about viruses is BS.



SeaBreeze said:


> He spoke a bit before his death in the hospital, shown in link.



Yeah he looks like he's dying, sitting up, speaking with a full volume of air in his lungs.  
I don't doubt in the least that many people are dying in hospitals, which has always been the case.  

Want to get sick and die right away?  Keep on getting shot up with the poisonous vaccinations.
And be sure to keep watching the obvious propaganda, lies, and misinformation.
Most of all, when you get shot up with the poisons and then get sick, *BLAME YOURSELF*!

Want to keep living?
Stay far, far away from doctors, hospitals, and toxic poisonous drugs!
And stay far, far away from the vaccination corporation media propaganda and lies.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 23, 2021)

John cycling said:


> That video is total BS.      That guy's an actor.
> No one who hasn't been poisoned by the vaccinations has ever died from a covid virus.
> 
> 
> ...


No, your posts are BS, not that video.  You can only spread disinformation and conspiracies to the gullible, that nonsense doesn't fly here with people who can tell reality from fiction.


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## SeaBreeze (Sep 23, 2021)

Dancing_Queen said:


> Pfizer is no longer experimental; therefore, this part of your argument is now moot.  Moderna and J&J are about to submit for full authorization; very shortly thereafter all of the vaccines available in the U.S. will have full authorization.  Viral vector vaccines (J&J) have been around "forever;" if you've ever had any vaccine, it was quite probably a viral vector one.  Also, the mRNA technology has been around for a very long time.  Here's its history:  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w .
> 
> So, since you wouldn't take the vaccine because it was experimental and "new," you can now feel good about taking it.


Thanks for that information Dancing Queen.


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## Irwin (Sep 23, 2021)

Judycat said:


> I watched a piece on Brian Williams show last night showing clips from school board meetings and the stupid stuff people were saying about vaccinations and mask wearing. It is so embarrassing to be an American.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440756661098930185


Mass psychosis.


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## Irwin (Sep 23, 2021)

Dancing_Queen said:


> I volunteer for a local professional theater and was there last night.  Their website said one thing; they were actually much more strict.  Everyone working there including volunteers had to show proof of full vaccination which went to their security person.  Everyone in the theater had to wear masks.  Beginning in October all patrons will have to be fully vaccinated.  I was able to see almost all in the audience and I didn't see a single mask out of position during the whole show.  They're not using their small theater at all this season because the large theater is much roomier.  There was audience participation in last night's comedy show.  At one point the participant and the actor were supposed to have held hands; they held opposite ends of a pool noodle.  The theater did things right and so did the audience.  Kudos!


Theatre-goers tend to be fairly well educated, which means they're more likely to believe in the science behind epidemiology and less likely to believe in conspiracy theories, so they embraced the policy of wearing masks and getting vaccinated. Most of them probably would have worn masks even if they weren't asked to do so.

Go to a tractor pull or stockcar race, and it would completely opposite. There would probably be riots if they were required to wear masks.


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## Nathan (Sep 23, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Or was it the opponents of the previous POTUS ?


For those that actually watched and listened to the former POTUS, the answer is quite clear and inescapable.


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## Murrmurr (Sep 23, 2021)

Nathan said:


> For those that actually watched and listened to the former POTUS, the answer is quite clear and inescapable.


Well I actually listened. But I also actually read and watched what was coming from the media too, so I (respectfully) disagree.


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## win231 (Sep 23, 2021)

Dancing_Queen said:


> Pfizer is no longer experimental; therefore, this part of your argument is now moot.  Moderna and J&J are about to submit for full authorization; very shortly thereafter all of the vaccines available in the U.S. will have full authorization.  Viral vector vaccines (J&J) have been around "forever;" if you've ever had any vaccine, it was quite probably a viral vector one.  Also, the mRNA technology has been around for a very long time.  Here's its history:  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w .
> 
> So, since you wouldn't take the vaccine because it was experimental and "new," you can now feel good about taking it.


_"Vaccine development is a long, complex process, often lasting 10-15 years and involving a combination of public and private involvement."  _
Not 1 year.  So, YOU can feel good about taking it.      And, it's perfectly OK with me if you do.  It's a personal choice each of us has the right to make.  I respect everyone's choice; unlike some controlling types & those who play the asinine _"Covid Blame Game."_
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation


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## Nathan (Sep 23, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> Well I actually listened. But I also actually read and watched what was coming from the media too, so I (respectfully) disagree.


Well just remember that biased media has an agenda, which has little to do with delivering factual, truthful news.   If important facts are omitted, that's still called "lying by omission".


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## ohioboy (Sep 23, 2021)

Seabreeze I love your word Freedumb for Freedom, yeah you're free, but dumb.


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## Sunny (Sep 23, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Mass psychosis.


And a cult mentality.


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## WheatenLover (Sep 23, 2021)

Sunny said:


> And a cult mentality.


Yes, my _highly educated_ ex-husband has always thought Covid was a hoax. He believes in a lot of other things that aren't true either (lots of aliens masquerading as humans in our population, Medbed, some group is going to take over the world economy and pay all our debts and we will never have to worry about money again, Biden is not the president - because actors are playing the parts of Biden and the Obamas and the originals have been killed).

Now he is in a nursing home undergoing rehab, and he is not vaccinated against anything, and many of the staff (according to articles I've read about nursing home staff) are not vaccinated against Covid either. But he has changed his tune to religious reasons for not getting vaccinated. He figures god will not let him get Covid - why he is special when so many are not, is beyond me.

I have often wondered if he has dementia. His daughter didn't bring his laptop to the hospital so that he couldn't fixate on the stuff in paragraph one. I am hoping that with no exposure to it, he will come to his senses in a couple of months. He doesn't know how to get on the interest on his phone, and hopefully that ignorance will continue.


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## MarciKS (Sep 23, 2021)

Remy said:


> OMG!   I hope you will be OK.
> 
> Have you been wearing a mask. My face has been inches from covid patients at work and I'm yet to get it. I'm vaccinated.


yes ma'am. i wear my mask, distance as much as possible, go nowhere unless i have to. we may be getting our boosters for covid in october


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## win231 (Sep 23, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Yes, my _highly educated_ ex-husband has always thought Covid was a hoax. He believes in a lot of other things that aren't true either (lots of aliens masquerading as humans in our population, Medbed, some group is going to take over the world economy and pay all our debts and we will never have to worry about money again, Biden is not the president - because actors are playing the parts of Biden and the Obamas and the originals have been killed).
> 
> Now he is in a nursing home undergoing rehab, and he is not vaccinated against anything, and many of the staff (according to articles I've read about nursing home staff) are not vaccinated against Covid either. But he has changed his tune to religious reasons for not getting vaccinated. He figures god will not let him get Covid - why he is special when so many are not, is beyond me.
> 
> I have often wondered if he has dementia. His daughter didn't bring his laptop to the hospital so that he couldn't fixate on the stuff in paragraph one. I am hoping that with no exposure to it, he will come to his senses in a couple of months. He doesn't know how to get on the interest on his phone, and hopefully that ignorance will continue.


^^^^ A real gem - ridiculing your ex husband who likely has dementia.  How lucky he must have felt being married to you.
My mom did the same thing to my dad when he became too old for her.  But she probably learned something when she became completely bedridden for the last 4 months of her pathetic life.


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## Lawrence (Sep 23, 2021)

What bothers me is people who tell other people not to become vaccinated. I have a brother like that and he has teenage children and a wife who is a nurse and he tells them not to get vaccinated. I think that people who tell others not to be vaccinated are criminals to preach such a thing. Vaccines work just think what the world would be like today if there was not such a thing as being vaccinated. I bet the population of the world would have fourty percent less people than we have today.


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## win231 (Sep 23, 2021)

Lawrence said:


> What bothers me is people who tell other people not to become vaccinated. I have a brother like that and he has teenage children and a wife who is a nurse and he tells them not to get vaccinated. I think that people who tell others not to be vaccinated are criminals to preach such a thing. Vaccines work just think what the world would be like today if there was not such a thing as being vaccinated. I bet the population of the world would have fourty percent less people than we have today.


"40% less people?"
Well, ya know..........traffic congestion is a real problem.


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## WheatenLover (Sep 23, 2021)

win231 said:


> ^^^^ A real gem - ridiculing your ex husband who likely has dementia.  How lucky he must have felt being married to you.
> My mom did the same thing to my dad when he became too old for her.  But she probably learned something when she became completely bedridden for the last 4 months of her pathetic life.


First, he has not been diagnosed, nor does anyone who knows him think he has dementia. I wonder about that because his beliefs seem so abnormal.

Second, I did not ridicule him. I merely reported unpleasant facts.

Third, I have been divorced from him for 37 years. I don't take care of him; his daughter and son-in-law do.

Fourth, despite your reading into what I said, I have been his staunchest friend for many years... and I do not say that, he does. One thing I do is listen to him talk (sometimes for over an hour at a time) about his beliefs. I do not castigate him, I just listen and ask questions that are _not_ designed to tell him there is something wrong with his thinking. I am the only person in his life who listens to him.

Fifth, I think it is very important that 77 year old man in poor health be vaccinated against Covid. This is especially true since ordinarily he lives in a household that has a child too young to be vaccinated, and he does not take any precautions against Covid. There is nowhere else for him to live except in a homeless shelter, plus we in his family love him.


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## WheatenLover (Sep 23, 2021)

Lawrence said:


> What bothers me is people who tell other people not to become vaccinated. I have a brother like that and he has teenage children and a wife who is a nurse and he tells them not to get vaccinated. I think that people who tell others not to be vaccinated are criminals to preach such a thing. Vaccines work just think what the world would be like today if there was not such a thing as being vaccinated. I bet the population of the world would have fourty percent less people than we have today.


I wonder if some of the people who live in social/familial circles that discourage vaccination secretly get vaccinated. I would if that were the case.


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## Warrigal (Sep 23, 2021)

Just a stray thought but IMO rather relevant.


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## Buckeye (Sep 24, 2021)

win231 said:


> Really?  You need an explanation?   Well.....OK, if you insist.
> Common sense indicates that seat belts save lives & can prevent serious injury.  They've been here for 50-60 years.  I never needed a mandate or law to wear one.
> A new experimental vaccine is a different story.


Common sense (and tons of data) indicates that vaccines save lives & can prevent serious illness.  They've been here for 200 years.  I never needed a mandate or a law to get one.

A new vaccine is just another advance in science.


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## Remy (Sep 24, 2021)

debodun said:


> There was a blurb on the local news about a teacher that was fired for refusing to get tested or vaccinated.


They're either nuts or have a spouse with a good job because any self supporting single person like me could never pull that crap.


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## JimBob1952 (Sep 24, 2021)

I track new US cases and hospitalizations closely.  They are down 14 percent and 10 percent respectively over the last 14 days.  Hope that's the start of a trend and that some day we can stop talking about this.


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## Remy (Sep 24, 2021)

@win231 Many people who do not have dementia believe all this conspiracy garbage. Plus with aging and shrinking brains, some people begin to make poor decisions when they would still pass every cognitive test. I knew a woman who's father gave all his money to some internet scam. She tried to get his capacity taken away and he passed all the tests. 

I don't know why your post was so harsh toward @WheatenLover


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## Mike (Sep 24, 2021)

People in responsible positions, like Lawyers, Doctors, Politicians
and normally respected ones who are denying the vaccines for
any reason, should be arrested for spreading fear and the inciting
of others to go against the proof of the therapy.

Mike.


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2021)

Remy said:


> @win231 Many people who do not have dementia believe all this conspiracy garbage. Plus with aging and shrinking brains, some people begin to make poor decisions when they would still pass every cognitive test. I knew a woman who's father gave all his money to some internet scam. She tried to get his capacity taken away and he passed all the tests.
> 
> I don't know why your post was so harsh toward @WheatenLover


You aren't very observant.


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2021)

Buckeye said:


> Common sense (and tons of data) indicates that vaccines save lives & can prevent serious illness.  They've been here for 200 years.  I never needed a mandate or a law to get one.
> 
> A new vaccine is just another advance in science.


Comparison is 100% invalid.   Vaccines have been here for 200 years.  How long has the Covid vaccine been here?


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## Dancing_Queen (Sep 24, 2021)

Irwin said:


> Theatre-goers tend to be fairly well educated, which means they're more likely to believe in the science behind epidemiology and less likely to believe in conspiracy theories, so they embraced the policy of wearing masks and getting vaccinated. Most of them probably would have worn masks even if they weren't asked to do so.
> 
> Go to a tractor pull or stockcar race, and it would completely opposite. There would probably be riots if they were required to wear masks.


I know.


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## Dancing_Queen (Sep 24, 2021)

win231 said:


> _"Vaccine development is a long, complex process, often lasting 10-15 years and involving a combination of public and private involvement."  _
> Not 1 year.  So, YOU can feel good about taking it.    And, it's perfectly OK with me if you do. It's a personal choice each of us has the right to make. I respect everyone's choice; unlike some controlling types & those who play the asinine _"Covid Blame Game."_
> https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation


Do you take the flu vaccine?  Each year it's newly developed for whatever strain is out there.  However, it's based upon technology that's been around a long time -- the same as these vaccines.  If you don't take it, that's fine; if you do take it, then can you please explain the contradiction?


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## Remy (Sep 24, 2021)

win231 said:


> You aren't very observant.


Thanks for the put down.


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## Dancing_Queen (Sep 24, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> Yes, my _highly educated_ ex-husband has always thought Covid was a hoax. He believes in a lot of other things that aren't true either (lots of aliens masquerading as humans in our population, Medbed, some group is going to take over the world economy and pay all our debts and we will never have to worry about money again, Biden is not the president - because actors are playing the parts of Biden and the Obamas and the originals have been killed).
> 
> Now he is in a nursing home undergoing rehab, and he is not vaccinated against anything, and many of the staff (according to articles I've read about nursing home staff) are not vaccinated against Covid either. But he has changed his tune to religious reasons for not getting vaccinated. He figures god will not let him get Covid - why he is special when so many are not, is beyond me.
> 
> I have often wondered if he has dementia. His daughter didn't bring his laptop to the hospital so that he couldn't fixate on the stuff in paragraph one. I am hoping that with no exposure to it, he will come to his senses in a couple of months. He doesn't know how to get on the interest on his phone, and hopefully that ignorance will continue.


My best wishes for him on both counts, Wheaten.


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## Remy (Sep 24, 2021)

@win231 I'm putting you on "ignore" so you can upvote that.


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2021)

Dancing_Queen said:


> Do you take the flu vaccine?  Each year it's newly developed for whatever strain is out there.  However, it's based upon technology that's been around a long time -- the same as these vaccines.  If you don't take it, that's fine; if you do take it, then can you please explain the contradiction?


Never had a flu shot.  Why should I?  I had the flu once - 36 years ago & never since.  During those 36 years, I worked in places that didn't offer sick leave & people came to work sick because they couldn't afford to lose a day's pay.  I also cared for friends who had the flu.  Natural Immunity perhaps?  I don't mess with something that works.

My sister would get a flu shot every year on the advice of her doctor, who explained, _"You must have a flu shot because you're diabetic."_
But after getting sick & bedridden for a week after each flu shot, she said, "Screw this; no more flu shots."  

You are mistaken about the flu vaccine's "Technology."  The reason flu shots don't work is because they have no way of predicting what flu strain will be there each flu season & that makes it _"Hit or Miss,"_ & there are many strains, so it's usually _"Miss."_  That's why when there is a really bad flu season, E.R. waiting rooms are filled with people with the flu - who had their flu shot.  A few years ago, during a news piece on the flu, a reporter asked an E.R. doctor why that happens.  He replied, _"Well.....uh.....you see.....we can't predict which flu strain arrives each year."_


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## win231 (Sep 24, 2021)

Remy said:


> @win231 I'm putting you on "ignore" so you can upvote that.


You'll simply _never _know the pain that causes me.   ROFLOL.


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## Alligatorob (Sep 24, 2021)

MrPants said:


> Yes indeed! Very few things are 100%. Let's just for fun compare the Covid Vaccine issue to when seatbelts in automobile was first introduced. Many similarities perhaps?
> View attachment 185169


I remember as a kid my Grandmother telling me she believed seat belts were dangerous.  The hazards of not being able to get out of the car quickly were greater than any value of the seat belt.  She even had examples...


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## Buckeye (Sep 24, 2021)

win231 said:


> Comparison is 100% invalid.   Vaccines have been here for 200 years.  How long has the Covid vaccine been here?


Sorry, but you are 100% wrong.  The covid vaccine has been here long enough for 213 million Americans to have had at least 1 dose.  World wide many more, of course.  And as an FYI, Polio vaccine was approved 1 year after trials began in 1954.

Polio Vaccine Trials

I'm gonna guess you were not one of the 1.8 million kids that took part


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## WheatenLover (Sep 25, 2021)

win231 said:


> You aren't very observant.


I figure you got triggered by something I said, so your response is on you.


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## mathjak107 (Sep 25, 2021)

MrPants said:


> Yes indeed! Very few things are 100%. Let's just for fun compare the Covid Vaccine issue to when seatbelts in automobile was first introduced. Many similarities perhaps?
> View attachment 185169


Let’s not forget  , if seat belts worked why do we need airbags ?   If airbags worked why do we need seat belts and brakes


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## Judycat (Sep 25, 2021)

I can imagine mankind being too stupid to add brakes to cars. 

I can stop just fine without some mechanical gizmo doing it for me. BANG! It's his fault for not getting out of the way.


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## MrPants (Sep 25, 2021)

Who needs brakes?


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## Dancing_Queen (Sep 25, 2021)

win231 said:


> Never had a flu shot.  Why should I?  I had the flu once - 36 years ago & never since.  During those 36 years, I worked in places that didn't offer sick leave & people came to work sick because they couldn't afford to lose a day's pay.  I also cared for friends who had the flu.  Natural Immunity perhaps?  I don't mess with something that works.
> 
> My sister would get a flu shot every year on the advice of her doctor, who explained, _"You must have a flu shot because you're diabetic."_
> But after getting sick & bedridden for a week after each flu shot, she said, "Screw this; no more flu shots."
> ...


Then I understand your reasoning, Win.  There's no contradiction. The flu vaccine is not exactly hit and miss.  The problem with the flu vaccines is that they aren't 100% effective (no vaccine is).  Sometimes they're more effective than others.  As for the strains,

"The seasonal influenza (flu) vaccine is designed to protect against the four influenza viruses that research indicates are most likely to spread and cause illness among people during the upcoming flu season. Flu viruses are constantly changing, so the vaccine composition is reviewed each year and updated as needed based on which influenza viruses are making people sick, the extent to which those viruses are spreading, and how well the previous season’s vaccine protects against those viruses.

More than 144 national influenza centers in over 114 countries conduct year-round surveillance for influenza. This involves receiving and testing thousands of influenza virus samples from patients. The laboratories send representative viruses to six World Health Organization (WHO) Collaborating Centersexternal icon for Reference and Research on Influenza, which are located in the following places:..."

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/vaccine-selection.htm


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## suds00 (Oct 3, 2021)

the vaccine is not experimental. we were told in the beginning what to expect from the vaccine and those declarations, by and large have been fulfilled. i am trying to allow for people with different views to state their case but the numbers are clear in this matter


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## SeaBreeze (Oct 3, 2021)

suds00 said:


> the vaccine is not experimental. we were told in the beginning what to expect from the vaccine and those declarations, by and large have been fulfilled. i am trying to allow for people with different views to state their case but the numbers are clear in this matter


Of course, agree.


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## Dancing_Queen (Oct 4, 2021)

suds00 said:


> the vaccine is not experimental. we were told in the beginning what to expect from the vaccine and those declarations, by and large have been fulfilled. i am trying to allow for people with different views to state their case but the numbers are clear in this matter


I wonder how many people who won't take the vaccine because it's "experimental" (just an excuse in my opinion) will take a treatment of monoclonal antibodies which is also experimental.  And we're paying the huge cost for for it to keep the unvaccinated who get sick out of the hospital.

"The monoclonal drug is expensive but the federal government is covering the cost. “The drug itself is provided free to the sites. That is significant because the drug normally costs between $3,000 to $5,000 a dose,” Dr. Michael Saag, UAB Infectious Diseases, said."

https://www.wbrc.com/2021/09/23/monoclonal-antibody-treatment-costs/

"The answer turned out to be monoclonal antibodies, a year-old, laboratory-created drug no less experimental than the vaccine."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/health/covid-antibody-regeneron.html


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 14, 2021)




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## Sunny (Nov 14, 2021)

Thank you, Seabreeze.

Here's another tragic story about someone who didn't have to die from it. I posted it in the thread about Holland, but don't know how many people saw it.  If you're not able to open the link, go to the Holland discussion, where I copied and pasted the whole article.

Of course, the deniers will say, or imply, that your video and my article are fake, and those people are just actors.

Want to see and learn about what Covid is really like?  This article may be enlightening.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/11/12/covid-icu-intensive-care-syndrome/


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