# Sex as a senior



## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

My wife and I have not been intimate for a very long time. For a time it was mutual (we verbally fought a lot), but eventually I wanted intimacy again. I talked to my wife about it, obliquely at first as she is really doesn't like to discuss relationship issues of any kind. Eventually I spoke plainly about it. She told me she looks at me like a brother, and implied this was a pretty normal development in our relationship. This was news to me, but since then I have come to learn that she isn't alone in her opinion and I know of other women who feel the same.

I can see my wife's point of view sort of. For me, sex filled two needs, a physical one and an emotional one. My wife has a large network of friends she gets emotional support from and she doesn't have the same emotional needs as me. However her lack of interest in a physical relationship makes no sense to me at all. She just doesn't seem to need it. I am sure she isn't doing anything secretly with someone else, she just doesn't need sex.

Now it is worth mentioning I am 15 years older than my wife and I still very much interested in the physical side of things.

I have considered leaving but frankly starting over would be incredibly hard financially and I have a teenage son with my wife who is still living at home and I enjoy having him around. He will be starting his own life soon enough and I kind of want to spend as much time as I can with him before that time comes.  I have also thought of cheating, but frankly I don't know anyone to cheat with even if I could get past the moral scruples of it.

I have tried to get my wife to go to counseling but she adamantly said no. I went to counseling on my own and while it helped me understand my feelings about things, it didn't offer any solutions.

I am lonely and horny and have a pretty wife who doesn't want to help me with either.

Kind of at my wits end.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

*My condolences. It must be rough. I think there are two different versions of normal here. Hers, and yours. It seems to me that your needs are not being heard. You have a right to expect your partner to care about and 

discuss relationship needs with you. This is a part of marriage. I assure you, most women do not view their husbands as brothers. I am concerned with her refusal to go to counselling. Is it a fear thing, selfishness on her part, or something else? *


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

I can't say for sure what her objections are.  She is a person who doesn't question much.  She believes what she believes and doesn't really seem to progress in her views.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> I can't say for sure what her objections are.  She is a person who doesn't question much.  She believes what she believes and doesn't really seem to progress in her views.


Hmmm. Some people don’t progress. It can be very comfortable to avoid anything one finds uncomfortable. I had a female relative who was similar. Impossible to communicate with her. In her case, it was her way or the highway. She was right and that was it.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Hmmm. Some people don’t progress. It can be very comfortable to avoid anything one finds uncomfortable. I had a female relative who was similar. Impossible to communicate with her. In her case, it was her way or the highway. She was right and that was it.


  She had been a beautiful woman in her youth, with the power such looks give. As she aged, her power diminished. She resented that immensely.  She was a very lonely person at the end.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

We need more information.  How old are you?  How old is she?  How long have you been married?  What is her physical condition?  I think the progression of non sex is normal for many people.  I remember when my SIL asked me if my husband I were still having sex.  Nope.

Why do you ask? I asked.  Because she said they no longer have sex anymore either and she wondered if it was normal.  Well, apparently it’s normal for us.  

As for being lonely, it’s not a wife “job” or a “husband”  to cure loneliness-we are responsible for our own well being.  I have a very difficult marriage myself and have learned, over time, that I am responsible for filling the hours of my day.  He does not exist to entertain me.  I do not exist to entertain him.  Find something to do that you enjoy and do it.

As for physical ****** release, I am sure you learned how to accomplish this on your own when you were a teenager.


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## SetWave (Apr 26, 2021)

Reminds me of my marriage. Sadly.
I like sex A LOT but the emotional attachment heightens the physical pleasure so I can appreciate your situation. Hang in there, man. Be a good father to your son and . . . 
As Aneeda says, the need for physical release is, uh, in your hands...


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> We need more information.  How old are you?  How old is she?  How long have you been married?  What is her physical condition?  I think the progression of non sex is normal for many people.  I remember when my SIL asked me if my husband I were still having sex.  Nope.
> 
> Why do you ask? I asked.  Because she said they no longer have sex anymore either and she wondered if it was normal.  Well, apparently it’s normal for us.
> 
> ...


I am 67, my wife is 51.  We have been married for 18 years.  She has some physical issues, as do I, but neither would interfere with sex and she is still very pretty so it isn't a lack of desire on my part.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

I am curious, does your wife work?


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## Chet (Apr 26, 2021)

Try a quid pro quo arrangement.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

Chet said:


> Try a quid pro quo arrangement.


 I am curious re how this would manifest itself.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

SetWave said:


> Reminds me of my marriage. Sadly.
> I like sex A LOT but the emotional attachment heightens the physical pleasure so I can appreciate your situation. Hang in there, man. Be a good father to your son and . . .
> As Aneeda says, the need for physical release is, uh, in your hands...


Well, the physical release requires stimulation, and porn really sucks.  I mean I really hate that I have to find satisfaction watching porn consisting of some young woman who will regret making the video in 5 years pretend she is getting seduced by her step-brother.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> I am curious, does your wife work?


She does work, though I have always been the one to support the family.  My money is our money and her money is her money.  I do spend money on what I want as well, but I support the family.


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## SetWave (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Well, the physical release requires stimulation, and porn really sucks.  I mean I really hate that I have to find satisfaction watching porn consisting of some young woman who will regret making the video in 5 years pretend she is getting seduced by her step-brother.


To hell with porn. All I require is a vivid imagination . . . and boy do I have one. 
As I said, stay with your son, be a good father and raise him well.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> I am 67, my wife is 51.  We have been married for 18 years.  She has some physical issues, as do I, but neither would interfere with sex and she is still very pretty so it isn't a lack of desire on my part.


So if your wife was now ugly you wouldn’t want sex with her? .  Is she going through menopause?  A lot of woman going through menopause are very uncomfortable.  In any event, it’s her body, her decision, and no, married or not, means no.

I said nothing about watching porn.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> So if your wife was now ugly you wouldn’t want sex with her? .  Is she going through menopause?  A lot of woman going through menopause are very uncomfortable.  In any event, it’s her body, her decision, and no, married or not, means no.
> 
> I said nothing about watching porn.


You said to accomplish what I did when I was a teenager, which is self-pleasure.  Unlike SetWave I do not have a vivid imagination so I need external stimulation, which is why I mentioned porn. 

I am not a person to force anyone to do anything, so as you said, her body, her decision.  But what I am I to do?  Cheat?  Leave?


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> You said to accomplish what I did when I was a teenager, which is self-pleasure.  Unlike SetWave I do not have a vivid imagination so I need external stimulation, which is why I mentioned porn.
> 
> I am not a person to force anyone to do anything, so as you said, her body, her decision.  But what I am I to do?  Cheat?  Leave?


How about you do without sex?   Yes, do without.  Otherwise do whatever you want.  Why ask a group of strangers what you should do?  At your age, leave, cheat, separate, divorce, whatever.  You are a grown up.  Make a decision.

Or see a therapist and ask the therapist.  Any opinion you get here will be just opinions of people who do not know the whole story as we can’t talk to your wife.  Maybe you smell, maybe you are too fat, maybe you fart too much, or maybe she is just done with sex.  Whatever.


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## SetWave (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> You said to accomplish what I did when I was a teenager, which is self-pleasure.  Unlike SetWave I do not have a vivid imagination so I need external stimulation, which is why I mentioned porn.
> 
> I am not a person to force anyone to do anything, so as you said, her body, her decision.  But what I am I to do?  Cheat?  Leave?


Be a good man. Take it and stop complaining. Be a good husband and a good father and accept the situation.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> You said to accomplish what I did when I was a teenager, which is self-pleasure.  Unlike SetWave I do not have a vivid imagination so I need external stimulation, which is why I mentioned porn.
> 
> I am not a person to force anyone to do anything, so as you said, her body, her decision.  But what I am I to do?  Cheat?  Leave?


You are in a difficult place. There is often an expectation that men require very little to satisfy themselves sexually. For some that may be true, but not for all. My late fiancé disliked porn immensely. Not on moral or religious grounds, he 

just did not like feeling manipulated, and he felt sorry for the young women. I can understand you wanting to stay primarily for the sake of your son. Do you and your wife have a cordial relationship over all?


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

SetWave said:


> Be a good man. Take it and stop complaining. Be a good husband and a good father and accept the situation.


Jeez, that is terrible advice.  Why even have a forum like this if you can't have a discussion?  I have been, and will continue to be a good man and good father.  Good husband though?  I pay the bills and provide care for her elderly mother who has lived with us my entire marriage.  I am a decent man, but a marriage without intimacy barely makes me a husband, much less a good one.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

SetWave said:


> Be a good man. Take it and stop complaining. Be a good husband and a good father and accept the situation.


Wow, that is both simplistic and harsh. No wonder many men find it so difficult to open up and share their feelings. Being a good husband and father does not require living in misery with a partner who has apparently abrogated all 

emotional and ****** investment in her marriage. She is equally responsible for being a good spouse and mother. Children flourish with loving happy parents, not unhappy ones. I have counselled many kids who were torn apart by living with unhappy parents.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Jeez, that is terrible advice.  Why even have a forum like this if you can't have a discussion?  I have been, and will continue to be a good man and good father.  Good husband though?  I pay the bills and provide care for her elderly mother who has lived with us my entire marriage.  I am a decent man, but a marriage without intimacy barely makes me a husband, much less a good one.


Quoted for truth.


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## Lara (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> ...she is really doesn't like to discuss relationship issues of any kind....She told me she looks at me like a brother...My wife has a large network of friends she gets emotional support from and she doesn't have the same emotional needs as me...she just doesn't need sex....teenage son with my wife who is still living at home and I enjoy having him around. He will be starting his own life soon...counseling but she adamantly said no...doesn't want to help me


I have removed everything in your opening quote that is about you to help you focus on your wife. I'm sorry but she's made it crystal clear.

You said...She doesn't want to discuss it. She doesn't look at you as a lover. She looks at you as a brother. She doesn't need you. She doesn't want to help you. She doesn't want to change.

So you have to be the one to change if you want to continue to live with her. It's possible. You have to choose between sex with someone else who shares love with you, or sharing a fulfilling life with the wife you love but void of sex.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> You are in a difficult place. There is often an expectation that men require very little to satisfy themselves sexually. For some that may be true, but not for all. My late fiancé disliked porn immensely. Not on moral or religious grounds, he
> 
> just did not like feeling manipulated, and he felt sorry for the young women. I can understand you wanting to stay primarily for the sake of your son. Do you and your wife have a cordial relationship over all?


Cordial would be the way I would describe it.  My wife is delightfully outgoing.   I love hearing her voice, I often compare her voice to a lovely glass mobile tinkling in the wind.  Most days we have polite conversation with each other.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Jeez, that is terrible advice.  Why even have a forum like this if you can't have a discussion?  I have been, and will continue to be a good man and good father.  Good husband though?  I pay the bills and provide care for her elderly mother who has lived with us my entire marriage.  I am a decent man, but a marriage without intimacy barely makes me a husband, much less a good one.


Good grief, enough is enough. You have gone above and beyond in trying to be a good husband. Few would have opened their home as you have done. Where is the reciprocity? You have the right to be treated with the respect you have clearly earned.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Cordial would be the way I would describe it.  My wife is delightfully outgoing.   I love hearing her voice, I often compare her voice to a lovely glass mobile tinkling in the wind.  Most days we have polite conversation with each other.


  Hmm. Do you think your son senses any tension, or does he seem content?


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Hmm. Do you think your son senses any tension, or does he seem content?


He is very aware of the situation but he says it is no big deal, and I believe him.  My wife really leans on my son to do well in school and he has learned to just let it roll off his back and I think he does the same thing with the situation with me and his mother.  He knows he is loved and both of us have spent a lot of time with him and he is a well-balanced individual.


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## Pinky (Apr 26, 2021)

Would your son and mother-in-law be able to fare for themselves if you and your wife took a week's vacation somewhere. I can see where never being alone, just the two of you, might kill the urge to be intimate.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Pinky said:


> Would your son and mother-in-law be able to fare for themselves if you and your wife took a week's vacation somewhere. I can see where never being alone, just the two of you, might kill the urge to be intimate.


That is something she would not be into.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Jeez, that is terrible advice.  Why even have a forum like this if you can't have a discussion?  I have been, and will continue to be a good man and good father.  Good husband though?  I pay the bills and provide care for her elderly mother who has lived with us my entire marriage.  I am a decent man, but a marriage without intimacy barely makes me a husband, much less a good one.


Being a good husband requires so much more than paying the bills and caring for her elderly mother.  Sounds like she could care for her mother herself.  It’s a one sided discussion.  With such a large age difference maybe she just doesn’t want to end up taking care of you as you age.  Who knows?  Maybe she doesn’t want sex with an older man, who knows?

We don’t because she is not here.  YOU have a young wife, SHE has an elderly husband.  It could simply be the age difference.  We just don’t know and that slants the conversation towards us guessing about what the problem is.


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## Becky1951 (Apr 26, 2021)

Not to offend, but there are two sides to every story. We obviously won't be hearing her side straight from her. I know I'll get nasty comments on this following statement but, your story sounds like a oh poor me type of story, sympathy seeking. Which of course is deserved if there are no reasons other then what you have stated, that we do not know because your wife is not here to defend herself.


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## RadishRose (Apr 26, 2021)

She's just not into you.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> How about you do without sex?   Yes, do without.  Otherwise do whatever you want.  Why ask a group of strangers what you should do?  At your age, leave, cheat, separate, divorce, whatever.  You are a grown up.  Make a decision.
> 
> Or see a therapist and ask the therapist.  Any opinion you get here will be just opinions of people who do not know the whole story as we can’t talk to your wife.  Maybe you smell, maybe you are too fat, maybe you fart too much, or maybe she is just done with sex.  Whatever.


Well people here might be strangers to me, but certainly many here are not strangers to what I am discussing.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

We can’t be certain of the veracity of anything people post here, but I trust my professional instincts. I have done a lot of marital counselling over the years. I believe LS. This situation is not uncommon.


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## Serenity4321 (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> My wife and I have not been intimate for a very long time. For a time it was mutual (we verbally fought a lot), but eventually I wanted intimacy again. I talked to my wife about it, obliquely at first as she is really doesn't like to discuss relationship issues of any kind. Eventually I spoke plainly about it. She told me she looks at me like a brother, and implied this was a pretty normal development in our relationship. This was news to me, but since then I have come to learn that she isn't alone in her opinion and I know of other women who feel the same.
> ......
> 
> Kind of at my wits end.


LSWOTE
wow I give you credit for being this open. I think some here have been way harsher with you than they should have been. We all have struggles and challenges that we at times find difficult.  This board should indeed be a 'safe' place to share concerns. You sound like a decent man who is just frustrated with how life is turning out. 
I have never heard of women saying it is natural or normal for a husband to become like a brother. I hope you find a way to enjoy your life...


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

LS, please do not be affected by those who may have a personal axe to grind. There has been quite a lot of hostility about lately.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> LS, please do not be affected by those who may have a personal axe to grind. There has been quite a lot of hostility about lately.





LSWOTE said:


> He is very aware of the situation but he says it is no big deal, and I believe him.  My wife really leans on my son to do well in school and he has learned to just let it roll off his back and I think he does the same thing with the situation with me and his mother.  He knows he is loved and both of us have spent a lot of time with him and he is a well-balanced individual.


Hmm. Perhaps this simplifies things a bit. I am obviously not in your shoes. If it were me, I would ask myself what is the emotional price for staying until he graduates, versus leaving now. She really has it made, a man who supports she and her mother, her own money, and the ability to dictate the terms of your marriage. Why on earth would she 

want to alter anything? But, you deserve so much more. Believe me, even if you aren’t interested, there are many women who would thank their lucky stars for a man like you.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

RadishRose said:


> She's just not into you.


Oh I get that.  Perhaps there is no advice anyone could give that I am not already aware of myself, but it is the living with the situation that is hard.  I am aware one option to the situation is to buck up, don't complain, and live with things and by and large that is what I am doing.  But I am not asking anyone to do anything than have a discussion with me.   Don't send me money, come visit me, take care of me, pray for me, adopt my children, buy me a new car or elect me president.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

It is entirely reasonable for you to want to be heard. If people are not interested, they certainly have the option of scrolling on by. However, the need to criticize, make negative assumptions, even make an attempt to shame you, that speaks to their mindset rather than yours. Sf mandate requires that we treat others with respect, avoid personal attacks. Most of the time, people are very supportive, or at least neutral.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Oh I get that.  Perhaps there is no advice anyone could give that I am not already aware of myself, but it is the living with the situation that is hard.  I am aware one option to the situation is to buck up, don't complain, and live with things and by and large that is what I am doing.  But I am not asking anyone to do anything than have a discussion with me.   Don't send me money, come visit me, take care of me, pray for me, adopt my children, buy me a new car or elect me president.


The only issues you have mentioned is no sex and feeling lonely.  But the main problem seems to be the lack of sex.  Sex is such a small part of marriage; but seems to be a large issue for you.  As for living like brother and sister, that would mean more issues besides sex.  A total breakdown of the marriage.

What are the other issues?  Separate bedrooms?  Sibling would split the bills, the household chores, the food preparation, different friends, different lives and on and on.  Plus they would not share a child or the responsibility for one.  So you are not living like a brother and sister.

You are simply not having sex.  Lots of married people don’t have sex.  Have you goggled the statistics?  I do not know what kind of man you are or what kind of woman you wife is.  All I know is you want sex and she doesn’t.  If it’s that big of a deal, get a divorce.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Oh I get that.  Perhaps there is no advice anyone could give that I am not already aware of myself, but it is the living with the situation that is hard.  I am aware one option to the situation is to buck up, don't complain, and live with things and by and large that is what I am doing.  But I am not asking anyone to do anything than have a discussion with me.   Don't send me money, come visit me, take care of me, pray for me, adopt my children, buy me a new car or elect me president.


Well, based on the past, you might have a shot at president


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## Ruthanne (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> It is entirely reasonable for you to want to be heard. If people are not interested, they certainly have the option of scrolling on by. However, the need to criticize, make negative assumptions, even make an attempt to shame you, that speaks to their mindset rather than yours. Sf mandate requires that we treat others with respect, avoid personal attacks. Most of the time, people are very supportive, or at least neutral.


This is so true and I don't know what's wrong with some of these people who don't act with respect and avoid personal attacks but it gets old.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

Newsweek says 15% to 20% of married couples do not have sex and after the age of 70 sex really starts to drop off on marriages.  I did not read the article.  I think the percentage puts this issue in the normal range.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> The only issues you have mentioned is no sex and feeling lonely.  But the main problem seems to be the lack of sex.  Sex is such a small part of marriage; but seems to be a large issue for you.  As for living like brother and sister, that would mean more issues besides sex.  A total breakdown of the marriage.
> 
> What are the other issues?  Separate bedrooms?  Sibling would split the bills, the household chores, the food preparation, different friends, different lives and on and on.  Plus they would not share a child or the responsibility for one.  So you are not living like a brother and sister.
> 
> You are simply not having sex.  Lots of married people don’t have sex.  Have you goggled the statistics?  I do not know what kind of man you are or what kind of woman you wife is.  All I know is you want sex and she doesn’t.  If it’s that big of a deal, get a divorce.


Well, loneliness can be relieved by other people but not sex, at least not without consequences, so sex is more of the sticky point.  

My asking for advice and perhaps conversation seems to have offended you somehow.  Let me apologize as I am sure my forthrightness is often too abrupt for polite company.


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## Elsie (Apr 26, 2021)

Getting satisfaction elsewhere?  No.


LSWOTE said:


> My wife and I have not been intimate for a very long time. For a time it was mutual (we verbally fought a lot), but eventually I wanted intimacy again. I talked to my wife about it, obliquely at first as she is really doesn't like to discuss relationship issues of any kind. Eventually I spoke plainly about it. She told me she looks at me like a brother, and implied this was a pretty normal development in our relationship. This was news to me, but since then I have come to learn that she isn't alone in her opinion and I know of other women who feel the same.
> 
> I can see my wife's point of view sort of. For me, sex filled two needs, a physical one and an emotional one. My wife has a large network of friends she gets emotional support from and she doesn't have the same emotional needs as me. However her lack of interest in a physical relationship makes no sense to me at all. She just doesn't seem to need it. I am sure she isn't doing anything secretly with someone else, she just doesn't need sex.
> 
> ...


Something happen in her youthful years that was a turnoff to ****** intercourse being desirable? Has she ever climaxed—not her failure on your part… Her not discussing relationship issues, plus looking at you like a brother is b s imo. Her excuse for avoiding ****** intercourse, hmmm, are you sure she isn’t having an affair? (some other male, or even some female? Personally, I doubt it.) Perhaps some kind of hormone meds would get her libido back, if that’s her problem.


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## Lara (Apr 26, 2021)

Soon your son will leave to start his own life. Your purpose will move out of the house. Your wife's purpose will move out. There will be an empty nest, a void. You will both be forced to face it. You and her together. You have only a short time to get her to fall in love with you again before she gives up if that's her decision. If you want to fight for her then "date" her again, starting at square one, friendship...then first base, then 2nd, then 3rd. Slowly and tenderly.

If it doesn't work out, just know that lots of seniors find themselves alone all of a sudden and they adjust to being single because true love doesn't come around everyday.


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## Gaer (Apr 26, 2021)

This is just my opinion and pray, what business is it of mine?  but, I think if I had a spouse who thought of me as a sibling, withheld intimacy from me, and was no more than "cordial",
I would leave.  I wouldn't ask anyone.  I would leave.  Take your son with you.  
You see, a prostitute can give sex but you need much more than that.  You need LOVE.  Touching, affection.  
A mistress might give both but it's only temporal.  
Saying this and reading what you have written, I don't think you will leave.   You will probably stay and a year from now, five years from now, you will be on a forum asking the same question.  
Sorry, but that's my impression.  I  know you're in a miserable situation but you have to have the "gumption" to leave.


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## AprilSun (Apr 26, 2021)

Is your wife on any type of medications? Some medications can kill the desire to have sex. Between the facts of her getting older and being on medications could be a cause and not because she cares less of you. It's just a thought but I know there are people out there that medications has caused this to happen to them.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Gaer said:


> This is just my opinion and pray, what business is it of mine?  but, I think if I had a spouse who thought of me as a sibling, withheld intimacy from me, and was no more than "cordial",
> I would leave.  I wouldn't ask anyone.  I would leave.  Take your son with you.
> You see, a prostitute can give sex but you need much more than that.  You need LOVE.  Touching, affection.
> A mistress might give both but it's only temporal.
> ...


One thing I don't lack is gumption, but I couldn't take my son.  My wife is a good mother.  I have no legal right to take my son, nor would my son want to leave.


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## Jules (Apr 26, 2021)

There’s no point going through life being miserable.  Maybe she thinks that you’re content with her ‘sibling’ attitude.  

How long before your teenage son leaves home?  Perhaps it’s time to get your finances arranged so you can go too.  I wouldn’t suggest this if she was willing to talk with you.  

Discuss leaving with her.  If you feel she might me vindictive, don’t discuss it.


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## Pepper (Apr 26, 2021)

SetWave said:


> Be a good man. Take it and stop complaining. Be a good husband and a good father and *accept* the situation.


That's nuts.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 26, 2021)

I'm 66. My girlfriend Michelle is 39. We met fairly recently; been seeing each other for several months. I've been single for well over 2 decades, and before meeting Michelle I hadn't been in a relationship for about 4 lonely years, and I wasn't dating either. But I was super occupied with other stuff. I'd had major back surgery and was getting intense physical therapy, going to tai-chi classes almost every day and group meditation sessions once a week.

So my situation is different, but I can certainly relate to the need for a ****** relationship supported by an emotional bond. (And I suppose you could say that in the reverse; an emotional bond supported by ****** relations.) I'm not Michelle's pal, I'm her lover. We don't have sex for the giggles, it deepens our relationship. Conversation after sex while lying in bed naked is far more personal and intimate than conversation over dinner while buttering a roll.

But the stuff that kept me occupied for those 4 lonely years did help decrease my frustration over the absence of an intimate relationship. It helped immensely. I worked really, really hard to get my strength back, to walk normally, and increase my endurance. I was very focused.

That said, I would be a very unhappy man if I were married to someone who just up and decided we weren't going to have those rewarding hours of beautiful intimacy anymore.


----------



## Pepper (Apr 26, 2021)

@LSWOTE
Discuss with her the possibility of her allowing you to find a woman, a prostitute if necessary, to have sex with.  Discuss the possibility of opening the marriage.  Be honest, man!  IMO, and my marriage, sex was very important to the both of us.  I can't imagine, barring illness, a marriage where one just doesn't feel like it and the other wants & needs it.  Withholding sex is cold, cruel and manipulative.  Unless, of course, you are not truly expressing the depth of your feelings.

Does your MIL living with you have anything to do with a poor sex life before a no sex life?  Has her presence made a difference in the romance of your marriage?


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## Chet (Apr 26, 2021)

https://annlanders.com/advice.php?t...-a-wife-and-two-sons,-ages-15-and-12.&id=2402

Hmmm...what would Ann Landers say?


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## old medic (Apr 26, 2021)

Sex and  relationship can be two separate deals... Sex within a romantic relationship can be phenomenal....
We have been together almost 37 years... 1st we were like rabbits... we progressed across different levels... at times I felt she was only having sex out of obligation... and that killed my drive, then she thought I didn't love her anymore...... see the circle. We do love each other and wanted to work on improving our relationship... and with that the sex is... well .... F#@$ING AWESOME....
It ain't everyday, but.... DAMN


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Well, loneliness can be relieved by other people but not sex, at least not without consequences, so sex is more of the sticky point.
> 
> My asking for advice and perhaps conversation seems to have offended you somehow.  Let me apologize as I am sure my forthrightness is often too abrupt for polite company.


I am not offended so no need to apologize.

I do dislike one way conversations where someone represents themselves as nearly if not completely perfect and “blames” everything on the other person.  I have a great many issues with my husband, but I always make it clear that I am no where near an angel.  It takes two to dance.

After 18 years of marriage I am sure you know why she no longer wishes to have sex.  I find it strange that a person, new to the forum, would seek opinions when you said you already knew your choices.  Apparently giving up sex isn’t some thing you will consider.

This discussion mystifies me.  Since you have had therapy in the past, why not seek therapy now?  Are you going to pick someone’s opinion and agree with it and follow through?  Do you just want justification that you should be upset that she won’t “put out” cause you pay all the bills?  What do you want to get out of this discussion?


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## OneEyedDiva (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Wow, that is both simplistic and harsh. No wonder many men find it so difficult to open up and share their feelings. Being a good husband and father does not require living in misery with a partner who has apparently abrogated all
> 
> emotional and ****** investment in her marriage. She is equally responsible for being a good spouse and mother. Children flourish with loving happy parents, not unhappy ones. I have counselled many kids who were torn apart by living with unhappy parents.


I so agree with *all *you've replied here Shalimar. Why people ask "Why people ask questions....etc" and this is a *forum for the purpose of discussion *is beyond me!! 

@LSWOTE Welcome to SF. I don't think it's fair to you that your wife has closed her self off from being able to discuss the problem which means she is not considering your feelings at all. Don't judge whether you are a good husband or not by her lack of care for your needs. You've said a few things here that lead me to believe you are indeed a good husband and provider.

There's a oft used joke going around about men not "getting any" once they become husbands and the honeymoon phase is over. Sexless marriages are more common than people think. I was surprised to read an article about sexless marriages among the younger generation. There could be several reasons according to the couples. But in your case, how can you be expected to know what they are if your wife won't open up? Well of course one is she see's you as a "brother". Normal people don't want to have sex with their siblings. But how did she get to that point? You won't know if she doesn't discuss it. You have to decide if you want to live the rest of your life like this or if you want to move on and find emotional fulfillment and happiness. Perhaps that decision will be easier to make once you son is grown and out on his own.
@Aneeda72 @Chet @SetWave


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Pepper said:


> @LSWOTE
> Discuss with her the possibility of her allowing you to find a woman, a prostitute if necessary, to have sex with.  Discuss the possibility of opening the marriage.  Be honest, man!  IMO, and my marriage, sex was very important to the both of us.  I can't imagine, barring illness, a marriage where one just doesn't feel like it and the other wants & needs it.  Withholding sex is cold, cruel and manipulative.  Unless, of course, you are not truly expressing the depth of your feelings.
> 
> Does your MIL living with you have anything to do with a poor sex life before a no sex life?  Has her presence made a difference in the romance of your marriage?


I sort of went there in conversation with my wife along those lines once and I feel it might drive her to divorce me and be vindictive about it.  She is Catholic and that might be a bridge too far for her.   She lives with me being an atheist but going to prostitutes would be too much for her.  In fact the only lie I have ever told her is related to that.  After we had been married a couple years somehow it came up in conversation for her to ask if I had ever been with a prostitute.  I had been with several prostitutes before we were married, but I could see from her demeanor it wasn't going to go well if I told the truth.  Now if we had been unmarried when she asked I would have owned up to it, but we were married and had a young child together and so I said no.

Her mother living with us is actually a great thing.  Even though she is in her mid-eighties, she was raised on hard work and only seems happy cleaning and planting and we have a lot cleaner house than we have a right to and she has always taken care of my son which means when he was a baby I got to sleep through the night even when he was a newborn.  Lately she has been suffocating my son a bit as he is 17 and sick of being told to eat all the time when he would rather go out and eat with his friends, but on whole she has been a huge positive and didn't have anything to do with the problems between my wife and I.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

OneEyedDiva said:


> I so agree with *all *you've replied here Shalimar. Why people ask "Why people ask questions....etc" and this is a *forum for the purpose of discussion *is beyond me!!
> 
> @LSWOTE Welcome to SF. I don't think it's fair to you that your wife has closed her self off from being able to discuss the problem which means she is not considering your feelings at all. Don't judge whether you are a good husband or not by her lack of care for your needs. You've said a few things here that lead me to believe you are indeed a good husband and provider.
> 
> ...


In his opening statement he said *by mutual agreement he and his wife had not sex in a long time.  *Now he has changed his mind.  She hasn’t.  So when he didn’t want to have sex, it was fine: but now that he wants to have sex; it’s not fine.  This is controlling behavior, IMO.


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## Pepper (Apr 26, 2021)

Excuse this next question please, @LSWOTE,  but I am curious about something:  Is your wife foreign born?


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Removed


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Excuse this next question please, @LSWOTE,  but I am curious about something:  Is your wife foreign born?


Yes, she is Colombian. I met and married her in Bogota though we have lived in the US our entire marriage. I thought Colombians were good lovers but maybe that is just PR.


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## JonDouglas (Apr 26, 2021)

You should know that there can be an unholy amalgam of medical/hormonal/brain chemistry issues that combine to not only totally kill a woman's interest in sex but make it a most unpleasant experience and something to be avoided.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Yes, she is Colombian. I met and married her in Bogota though we have lived in the US our entire marriage. I thought Colombians were good lovers but maybe that is just PR.


So, what you are saying is that you are a ”good” man who has used several prostitutes in the past and thought Colombian woman were good lovers.  IMO, good men don't use prostitutes or generalize about whether woman of a certain country are good lovers or not.

I feel very sorry about some of the things people have said about your wife who is not able to respond to what you are saying.  I think there is a lot more to this, and she has made the right decision.  IMO, if she is able, she should take her mom, her kid, and leave.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> So, what you are saying is that you are a ”good” man who has used several prostitutes in the past and thought Colombian woman were good lovers.  IMO, good men don't use prostitutes or generalize about whether woman of a certain country are good lovers or not.
> 
> I feel very sorry about some of the things people have said about your wife who is not able to respond to what you are saying.  I think there is a lot more to this, and she has made the right decision.  IMO, if she is able, she should take her mom, her kid, and leave.


I didn't USE anybody.  I paid for intimacy with women. I was respectful and they were lovely.   Your values don't seem to coincide with reading a thread entitled "Sex as a senior".  You seem to be here to judge, not to contribute.


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## C'est Moi (Apr 26, 2021)

JonDouglas said:


> You should know that there can be an unholy amalgam of medical/hormonal/brain chemistry issues that combine to not only totally kill a woman's interest in sex but make it a most unpleasant experience and something to be avoided.


Yeah, like posting about VERY personal private life on a public forum to a bunch of strangers.  Yuck.  Where has integrity gone?   (It probably left with her libido.)


----------



## SetWave (Apr 26, 2021)

C'est Moi said:


> Yeah, like posting about VERY personal private life on a public forum to a bunch of strangers.  Yuck.  Where has integrity gone?   (It probably left with her libido.)


I was tempted to think of this a bogus right from the beginning.


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## Della (Apr 26, 2021)

Let's see.  You use your money to pay all the bills and your wife spends all her money on herself. Her mother lives with you and does all the cleaning and gardening so your wife doesn't have to do that. You would like to have a warm intimate relationship with your wife, but she doesn't really seem to care what you want.  

I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but she sounds incredibly selfish and spoiled to me.

I don't know what can be done with someone who wants to stay married but doesn't want to make any effort toward happiness for their partner.  I would say the same about anything that was really important to the spouse.  All I can think of would be asking her if she was willing to talk to a priest, either with or without you along.  He might remind her that there's more to being a good Catholic wife than just not getting divorced.  Both partners in a marriage have _conjugal _rights as well as the right to say no. When one person takes their right to say no and turns it into never, (when that desire isn't mutual) that's just wrong and a denial of the marriage vows.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

SetWave said:


> I was tempted to think of this a bogus right from the beginning.


How did I share anything that violated any integrity?  What in my OP seems bogus?  Now I admit to not telling every detail of the story, but you seem offended in what I already did tell and I was sticking to basic points.  I am not sure I even called myself a good guy.  Just that I have tried to do the right thing and I was kind of at my wits end.   

You know I saw there are a number of lovely forums on here that talk about kittens and ask how you slept last night.  Perhaps you should stick to them.


----------



## Keesha (Apr 26, 2021)

Take no notice of the ‘in denial’ pot stirrers here.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Keesha said:


> Take no notice of the ‘in denial’ pot stirrers here.


Does that mean ignore them?  Claims were made that I wasn't sure made more sense to ignore or defend. My youthful ambition says they need defending while my less dominate "wisdom that comes with age" says I should just ignore them.   So far my youthful ambition is winning.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> I didn't USE anybody.  I paid for intimacy with women. I was respectful and they were lovely.   Your values don't seem to coincide with reading a thread entitled "Sex as a senior".  You seem to be here to judge, not to contribute.


Oh really?

Were those women covered by health insurance?  Did they see doctors regularly?  Did they have decent places to live?  Did you go to their house, pay for an hourly hotel, or just do it in a car or alley?  Were they forced into prostitution?  Were they underage?-seems you like younger women.  I suppose you didn’t pay their bills.

You did not have intimacy with those women, you had paid sex with prostitutes with no knowledge of their circumstances or what lead to their having to made a living in this manner.  My values are just fine.  Prostitution is against the law and you were nothing but a “John”, in these situations.

I have not judged YOU, that is not my place.  I have said, IMO, using prostitutes is not the action of a “good” man.  Those woman were and are someone’s daughter.  And you don’t get to decide if I am contributing to this thread or not.  Keep your control issues, under control.


----------



## Pecos (Apr 26, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> This is so true and I don't know what's wrong with some of these people who don't act with respect and avoid personal attacks but it gets old.


Ruthanne,

I totally agree with your comment. 

There is a lot of good input on this thread, and there is also a lot of "stuff" that would cause anyone contemplating hanging around to question whether or not they want to do that. We are not exactly attracting new members when they get disrespected.


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## Pecos (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> My wife and I have not been intimate for a very long time. For a time it was mutual (we verbally fought a lot), but eventually I wanted intimacy again. I talked to my wife about it, obliquely at first as she is really doesn't like to discuss relationship issues of any kind. Eventually I spoke plainly about it. She told me she looks at me like a brother, and implied this was a pretty normal development in our relationship. This was news to me, but since then I have come to learn that she isn't alone in her opinion and I know of other women who feel the same.
> 
> I can see my wife's point of view sort of. For me, sex filled two needs, a physical one and an emotional one. My wife has a large network of friends she gets emotional support from and she doesn't have the same emotional needs as me. However her lack of interest in a physical relationship makes no sense to me at all. She just doesn't seem to need it. I am sure she isn't doing anything secretly with someone else, she just doesn't need sex.
> 
> ...


My condolences and welcome aboard.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Oh really?
> 
> Were those women covered by health insurance?  Did they see doctors regularly?  Did they have decent places to live?  Did you go to their house, pay for an hourly hotel, or just do it in a car or alley?  Were they forced into prostitution?  We’re they underage?-seems you like younger women.  I suppose you didn’t pay their bills.
> 
> ...


Yikes, you are one unfriendly, judgmental hombre!


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## Dana (Apr 26, 2021)

My first inclination and I have enormous faith in my instincts, they have very rarely let me down…call it a blessing or a curse, but I was born with this and it has served me well. In a nutshell then, I am having trouble with the veracity of the original post.

That being the case, I shall not give you any "sound" advice because in doing so, I would be extremely unfair to your wife, whose side of the story we do not know.

You cannot make someone have ****** feelings for you. Obviously this aspect of marriage is very important to you and why not? On the other hand, your wife, from what you told us has lost interest…perhaps she is asexual … perhaps you are oversexed…who knows? No one is in your house with you and you are not going to tell us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The way I see it…if this is a real situation, you have two avenues open to you. You either put up with your present conditions and live as companions …or… you bite the bullet and leave the situation. Things have a way of working out.

Good luck!


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

Della said:


> Let's see.  You use your money to pay all the bills and your wife spends all her money on herself. Her mother lives with you and does all the cleaning and gardening so your wife doesn't have to do that. You would like to have a warm intimate relationship with your wife, but she doesn't really seem to care what you want.
> 
> I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but she sounds incredibly selfish and spoiled to me.
> 
> I don't know what can be done with someone who wants to stay married but doesn't want to make any effort toward happiness for their partner.  I would say the same about anything that was really important to the spouse.  All I can think of would be asking her if she was willing to talk to a priest, either with or without you along.  He might remind her that there's more to being a good Catholic wife than just not getting divorced.  Both partners in a marriage have _conjugal _rights as well as the right to say no. When one person takes their right to say no and turns it into never, (when that desire isn't mutual) that's just wrong and a denial of the marriage vows.


How do you know his wife wants to stay married?  For practicing Catholics, it can be very complicated.  How do you know what their marriage vows were?  The wife works, the mother wants to feel useful, such arrangements are common in a lot of households.

You are only hearing half the story.  And no, no matter what the circumstances, means no.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Yikes, you are one unfriendly, judgmental hombre!


Oh, I am very friendly and non judgmental and I am not an hombre.  But you did not answer my question, hotel, ally, car?


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## Ruthanne (Apr 26, 2021)

I hope you'll stick around the forum, we have lots of interesting topics here to discuss if you are so inclined.  Sorry your marriage hasn't been working out for you.


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## Gary O' (Apr 26, 2021)

Dana said:


> The way I see it…if this is a real situation, you have two avenues open to you. You either put up with your present conditions and live as companions …or… you bite the bullet and leave the situation. Things have a way of working out.


I concur

I believe this is where Set was going


SetWave said:


> Be a good man. Take it and stop complaining. Be a good husband and a good father and accept the situation.



I'm not big on counselors, but if there ever was a situation that required several sessions, this seems one.

But

It takes two

She needs to be a player

If not?

_'You either put up with your present conditions and live as companions …or… you bite the bullet and leave the situation.'_

As far as extended time going without...can't
After too long, anything soft becomes quite attractive


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> Oh, I am very friendly and non judgmental and I am not an hombre.  But you did not answer my question, hotel, ally, car?


You have shown yourself to be unfriendly and judgmental towards me.  Perhaps not an hombre in its Spanish definition of man, but hombre is one of those words that the current generation has put to use for either sex like bro and dude.


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## Dana (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> You have shown yourself to be unfriendly and judgmental towards me.  Perhaps not an hombre in its Spanish definition of man, but hombre is one of those words that the current generation has put to use for either sex like bro and dude.



_Absolute nonsense ...this could be a case of you can't face the truth._


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## Ruthanne (Apr 26, 2021)

@LSWOTE Did you know you can block posts from members you don't wish to communicate with on here.  It is called the "ignore" feature and it is used by clicking on a person's avatar and then clicking on "ignore."  Feel free to use it and much good luck to you.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

*Frankly, LS, considering some of the negative comments you have shown great restraint, and a gentlemanly manner. I hope you will stay. Perhaps using the ignore feature might spare you from less positive posts. Oops, Ruth, I didn’t realise you posted this, great minds think alike. *


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Ruthanne said:


> @LSWOTE Did you know you can block posts from members you don't wish to communicate with on here.  It is called the "ignore" feature and it is used by clicking on a person's avatar and then clicking on "ignore."  Feel free to use it and much good luck to you.


Ah thanks.  I used it.  Much better.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

Dana said:


> _Absolute nonsense ...this could be a case of you can't face the truth._


Wow, in this matter, my friend, we disagree.


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## Dana (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Wow, in this matter, my friend, we disagree.



That's OK by me.... in my practice I encourage people to face the truth. I have no idea how you run yours.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

Delete


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## Dana (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> Good grief, enough is enough. You have gone above and beyond in trying to be a good husband. Few would have opened their home as you have done. Where is the reciprocity? You have the right to be treated with the respect you have clearly earned.



_Surprising to hear that...since you have never met this man and how do you know the truth is being espoused here?_


----------



## Dana (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> So, we can’t have a difference of opinion without you casting aspersions? I am surprised.



_Shali...what surprises me, is how you, in the capacity of a "professional" think it is proper and correct to dish out "advice" of this nature on a public forum. Would it not be more prudent to remain impartial?_


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## Ruthanne (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> *Frankly, LS, considering some of the negative comments you have shown great restraint, and a gentlemanly manner. I hope you will stay. Perhaps using the ignore feature might spare you from less positive posts. Oops, Ruth, I didn’t realise you posted this, great minds think alike. *


I agree that you have shown great restraint @LSWOTE I know how hard it can be to tell one's problem on a forum and get subjected to hurtful comments.  There are many kind members here too who will show you a better time.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Dana said:


> _Absolute nonsense ...this could be a case of you can't face the truth._


Which thing is involving a truth not being faced?  Is this regarding what I have expressed regarding my marital situation or regarding the comment regarding prostitutes?

Regarding my marital situation I think I understand what I am facing.  Either I leave or put up with the way things are.  As far as prostitutes, I don't think it is immoral to be with a prostitute.  If you disagree, then it is not a case of me not facing the truth, it is that we disagree what the truth is.


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## Gaer (Apr 26, 2021)

i think prostitutes serve a public service.  They probably deter rapes and deviant practiices.
****** needs are a part of being human.  It's not sinful or immoral.  It's a natural function.

I should say: IMO.


----------



## Dana (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Which thing is involving a truth not being faced?  Is this regarding what I have expressed regarding my marital situation or regarding the comment regarding prostitutes?
> 
> Regarding my marital situation I think I understand what I am facing.  Either I leave or put up with the way things are.  As far as prostitutes, I don't think it is immoral to be with a prostitute.  If you disagree, then it is not a case of me not facing the truth, it is that we disagree what the truth is.



_I have no idea what you are talking about. I never mentioned prostitutes and I have no interest in your association with them. That is your business. 

I notice you did not comment on my post # 76.  However, this I will say…much of what Aneeda said I have not discounted._


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## AnnieA (Apr 26, 2021)

Dana said:


> ... I am having trouble with the veracity of the original post. ...



Same.


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## win231 (Apr 26, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I'm 66. My girlfriend Michelle is 39. We met fairly recently; been seeing each other for several months. I've been single for well over 2 decades, and before meeting Michelle I hadn't been in a relationship for about 4 lonely years, and I wasn't dating either. But I was super occupied with other stuff. I'd had major back surgery and was getting intense physical therapy, going to tai-chi classes almost every day and group meditation sessions once a week.
> 
> So my situation is different, but I can certainly relate to the need for a ****** relationship supported by an emotional bond. (And I suppose you could say that in the reverse; an emotional bond supported by ****** relations.) I'm not Michelle's pal, I'm her lover. We don't have sex for the giggles, it deepens our relationship. Conversation after sex while lying in bed naked is far more personal and intimate than conversation over dinner while buttering a roll.
> 
> ...


Love that - "Buttering a Roll."
Do you write professionally?  You should.


----------



## Giantsfan1954 (Apr 26, 2021)

Going to take a different tact here.
Encourage her to have a complete physical, there could be a lot of reasons for her rejection of you, anything from depression to that little butterfly shaped organ in our necks, trust me, until I got my thyroid meds adjusted correctly I had no problem thinking I had early onset dementia...brain fog, no libido,exhaustion and on and on.
My husband was 17 years older than me, we had a very enjoyable, active sex life until about 2004.
He started having “performance problems” and was very frustrated, we tried the little blue pill but he didn’t like the side effects.
Unfortunately, what we had no clue about this was an early warning of lung cancer, that within a year would metastasize to his brain and kill him in 3 weeks,
He was my 1st and only love, still is and I frequently wonder if we had consulted a better doctor than his moronic primary we may have caught it sooner.
Anyhoo, I wish you luck and hope you find a working solution.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Dana said:


> _I have no idea what you are talking about. I never mentioned prostitutes and I have no interest in your association with them. That is your business.
> 
> I notice you did not comment on my post # 76.  However, this I will say…much of what Aneeda said I have not discounted._


I don't know what you said in post 76 that should be responded to.  You pointed out like I have and others have that I have the choice to either leave or stay and put up with things the way they are.  Now I was actually hoping other people might have an option 3, like a way to rebuild intimacy with my wife.  Not just physical intimacy, but emotional intimacy as well.  If nothing else I was hoping to find out how to live with a difficult situation.  I have no family and no close friends so I am having a rough go of it.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> I don't know what you said in post 76 that should be responded to.  You pointed out like I have and others have that I have the choice to either leave or stay and put up with things the way they are.  Now I was actually hoping other people might have an option 3, like a way to rebuild intimacy with my wife.  Not just physical intimacy, but emotional intimacy as well.  If nothing else I was hoping to find out how to live with a difficult situation.  I have no family and no close friends so I am having a rough go of it.


Counseling was mentioned, and consulting a priest, and a doctor. I'd say those constitute your 3rd option - professional help. I understood you to say your wife isn't open to marriage counseling, but maybe she'd see a doctor? It could be something that can be treated.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

If the problem turns out not to be physical, and a person refuses to open up, I don’t see how it is possible to rebuild any sort of intimacy.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> If the problem is not physical, and a person refuses to open up, I don’t see how it is possible to rebuild any sort of intimacy.


That's true. 
Personally, I don't think you have a whole lot of options. Good luck, man. I hope you find something that works for you.


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## Zone (Apr 26, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> I'm 66. My girlfriend Michelle is 39. We met fairly recently; been seeing each other for several months. I've been single for well over 2 decades, and before meeting Michelle I hadn't been in a relationship for about 4 lonely years, and I wasn't dating either. But I was super occupied with other stuff. I'd had major back surgery and was getting intense physical therapy, going to tai-chi classes almost every day and group meditation sessions once a week.
> 
> So my situation is different, but I can certainly relate to the need for a ****** relationship supported by an emotional bond. (And I suppose you could say that in the reverse; an emotional bond supported by ****** relations.) I'm not Michelle's pal, I'm her lover. We don't have sex for the giggles, it deepens our relationship. Conversation after sex while lying in bed naked is far more personal and intimate than conversation over dinner while buttering a roll.
> 
> ...


A model!
We need to put in the hours (of focussed work) to achieve what we want.. our goal.


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## Dana (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> I don't know what you said in post 76 that should be responded to.  You pointed out like I have and others have that I have the choice to either leave or stay and put up with things the way they are.  Now I was actually hoping other people might have an option 3, like a way to rebuild intimacy with my wife.  Not just physical intimacy, but emotional intimacy as well.  If nothing else I was hoping to find out how to live with a difficult situation.  I have no family and no close friends so I am having a rough go of it.



_Thanks for replying to my post LSWOTE... may I ask you, when did your wife stop ****** relations with you? Can you be as close to the time as possible. Was it after an argument? After the birth of your child? Your answer could have a bearing on my next reply._


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## Zone (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> I don't know what you said in post 76 that should be responded to.  You pointed out like I have and others have that I have the choice to either leave or stay and put up with things the way they are.  Now I was actually hoping other people might have an option 3, like a way to rebuild intimacy with my wife.  Not just physical intimacy, but emotional intimacy as well.  If nothing else I was hoping to find out how to live with a difficult situation.  I have no family and no close friends so I am having a rough go of it.


Leave or stay..
You're hoping for option 3, like a way to rebuild intimacy...

IMO, it's possible.

It took years to have come to today's situation. So it will take some time to rebuild the connection.

Don't be historical. Erase the guilt, shame and blame, "have amnesia" but remember the buttons. Don't press them.

Treat her like a new friend, or an old friend or a good friend, whichever you deem fit. And grow the relationship from there...

Along the way, after a period of time, you will have an answer, if option 3 is working for you. If it is not happening the way you are wishing it, you will have to decide and be as happy as you can be, with your decision.

Good luck.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Oops.  Forgot to quote


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## LSWOTE (Apr 26, 2021)

Dana said:


> _Thanks for replying to my post LSWOTE... may I ask you, when did your wife stop ****** relations with you? Can you be as close to the time as possible. Was it after an argument? After the birth of your child? Your answer could have a bearing on my next reply._


So many factors entered into the issue and I have been already been harshly criticized for giving out so many details about something many think I should be keeping to myself so I think I will keep the particulars of that to myself. And while I wish there was an option 3, it seems highly unlikely there is.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> So many factors entered into the issue and I have been already been harshly criticized for giving out so many details about something many think I should be keeping to myself so I think I will keep the particulars of that to myself.  And while I wish there was an option 3, it seems highly unlikely there is.


 By all means protect yourself, but there is nothing wrong in sharing personal details on this forum. I have done so, as have others. People who find that inappropriate have the option to exit the thread. This is a relationship thread where people go to vent, ask for advice, or solace.


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## Shalimar (Apr 26, 2021)

Shalimar said:


> By all means protect yourself, but there is nothing wrong in sharing personal details on this forum. I have done so, as have others. People who find that inappropriate have the option to exit the thread. This is a relationship thread where people go to vent, ask for advice, or solace. If other people find your honesty and candour uncomfortable why are they reading the relationship thread?


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## Dana (Apr 26, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> So many factors entered into the issue and I have been already been harshly criticized for giving out so many details about something many think I should be keeping to myself so I think I will keep the particulars of that to myself. And while I wish there was an option 3, it seems highly unlikely there is.



_Fair enough...I understand, but if you change your mind I would be happy to offer my perspective. As for the critics, pay them no  mind, everything and everyone here is anonymous.  Good luck._


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## Murrmurr (Apr 27, 2021)

Zone said:


> A model!
> We need to put in the hours (of focussed work) to achieve what we want.. our goal.


First goal was to get out of the wheelchair, and the second one was to drive myself to a Goodwill store and donate the walker. Just weeks after meeting the second goal, I hung up the cane for good. That was a little shy of 3 years ago and I'm still making progress.


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## Zone (Apr 27, 2021)

Murrmurr said:


> First goal was to get out of the wheelchair, and the second one was to drive myself to a Goodwill store and donate the walker. Just weeks after meeting the second goal, I hung up the cane for good. That was a little shy of 3 years ago and I'm still making progress.


Praise 

Like I said, you're a model, a good example to follow. 

You want something, work on it.


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## Murrmurr (Apr 27, 2021)

Zone said:


> Praise
> 
> Like I said, you're a model, a good example to follow.
> 
> You want something, work on it.


Thanks, Zone. It's been long, bumpy road but totally worth it.


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## Keesha (Apr 27, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Does that mean ignore them?  Claims were made that I wasn't sure made more sense to ignore or defend. My youthful ambition says they need defending while my less dominate "wisdom that comes with age" says I should just ignore them.   So far my youthful ambition is winning.


I meant, try and ignore them. There are ‘many’ pot stirrers on here who only acknowledge other posters as such. Since this is such a sensitive topic, I can completely understand your defensive ego standing your ground to defend yourself. That’s perfectly normal. You’ve had some incredibly rude and insensitive comments thrown your way. It could be a combination of the fact that you are ‘new’ and the fact that the topic is so personal and vulnerable. Perhaps it makes others uncomfortable. While you are incognito, they may view this much sharing as a complete betrayal. Who knows? I sure don’t. It’s a ‘discussion forum.’ Members can either participate and offer you suggestions to consider or move along if it’s not their ‘cup of tea.’

I do however understand that dynamics can certainly change in relationships over time and if we don’t address the underlining issues, these changes can take the relationship in a whole new direction which can take on a life of their own.

You say that this non ****** relationship was a mutual decision but don’t mention how this came about. You also mention the use of prostitutes and how this was hidden from your wife. Why?

If this relationship was based on mutual ‘friendship’ with no ****** relationship, then your changing your mind has broken that agreement so naturally there would be conflict.

You clearly don’t wish to divulge all the details of this relationship and I don’t blame you in the least. There are basically only two suggestions I can offer.

1/. Both agree to take counselling to resolve your issues.
2/. Accept the relationship as it is and find other solutions to your frustrations. I’m not sure anything can fill that void of healthy human intimacy but there certainly are close runners up.

Either way, I wish you luck and pure happiness with or without a ****** relationship.
Ultimately you have to decide whether you will continue to accept this relationship as is or move on. Like some others have mentioned, you cannot force someone to be sexually attracted to you. They either are or they are not. There’s not a lot you can do to change others. They are who they are. The only person you can change is yourself.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 27, 2021)

Dana said:


> That's OK by me.... in my practice I encourage people to face the truth. I have no idea how you run yours.


I have an ideal


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## Dana (Apr 27, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> I have an ideal


*Í am quite sure you do not.*


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 27, 2021)

Post number one by the OP *”my wife and I have not been intimate for a very long time.  For a long time it was mutual (we verbally fought a lot) THEN EVENTUALLY I WANTED INTIMACY AGAIN.”*

It was, according to the OP, by MUTUAL agreement that he and his wife stopped having sex.  Since they talked and agreed to end the ****** part of their relationship, *the op knows why the sex ended.  *His claim of ignorance is false, IMO.

The OP then says *he wanted intimacy again.  *His wife apparently wants to continue with the agreement they made.  She did not decide to deny him sex.  They mutually decided to end a ****** relationship and discussed doing so.  He does not get to change the agreement, and we do not know the details of the agreement between him and his wife as he refuses to disclose the information.

Instead, he “plays“, IMO, the victim.  A familiar tactic to us all.  So glad he has me on ignore, I so wish a couple of other people did.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 27, 2021)

Dana said:


> *Í am quite sure you do not.*


I am not talking about you or your practices @Dana


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## Pepper (Apr 27, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> So many factors entered into the issue and I have been already been harshly criticized for giving out so many details about something many think I should be keeping to myself so I think I will keep the particulars of that to myself. And while I wish there was an option 3, it seems highly unlikely there is.


Is there any way to get back to how it was when you met?  Would you date your wife again?  Could you fall in love with her again?  Could you find ways to help her fall back in love with you?  I keep my fingers crossed that you can!


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 27, 2021)

Pepper said:


> Is there any way to get back to how it was when you met?  Would you date your wife again?  Could you fall in love with her again?  Could you find ways to help her fall back in love with you?  I keep my fingers crossed that you can!


But @Pepper what if his wife does not want to get back together?  What if his wife is just waiting until their son has graduated from HS and leaving then?  The son is 17.  A mother would usually not disrupt the child’s life at this point in time.  Although, due to covid, his life has probably been disrupted.

I am terribly curious why you support the OP without knowing the story the wife would/might tell.  Can you explain this to me?  It seems you have chosen a side.  Am I wrong?  Also, there is COVID-19.  The OP talks about using prostitution or having an affair and risks bringing the virus home to his family so he can “have sex”.  To me, IMO, this shows a disregard of the health of the family.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 27, 2021)

I find the responses on this thread by the forum members extremely interesting, as I do all threads like this.  Someone on this thread has repeatedly said that they were prostituted as a child and has spoken of the extreme trauma and mental illness that caused them.

Yet that individual has posted no objection to the OP’s use of prostitutes or the statements other members have made regarding prostitution.  @Gaer in post #93 actually said *“I think prostitutes serve a public service.”  *WOW, just WOW, and no one batted an eyelash.

She went on to say “*They probably deter rapes and other deviant practices”.  *_I am appalled at this attitude and these statements.  _I so disagree, strongly, strongly disagree.  Prostitutes are beaten, raped, denied “payment for services”, and have no legal resources.

They are often kidnapped, held for many months, sold as sex slaves, and frequently murdered, and are especially a target of serial killers.  These daughters, sisters, sons, brothers, grandchildren, mothers, and fathers often disappear without a trace.  I could go on but why bother.

*As others on the forum condone and encourage such behavior, the use of prostitutes as a public service. *


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## Pepper (Apr 27, 2021)

I'm not ignoring you @Aneeda72 I'm just figuring out how to answer.  It's complicated.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 27, 2021)

Pepper said:


> I'm not ignoring you @Aneeda72 I'm just figuring out how to answer.  It's complicated.


You could PM me when you are ready


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## Pepper (Apr 27, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> You could PM me when you are ready


Thanks but I'll go public.


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## Della (Apr 27, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> How do you know his wife wants to stay married?  For practicing Catholics, it can be very complicated.  How do you know what their marriage vows were?
> 
> You are only hearing half the story.  And no, no matter what the circumstances, means no.


He said she would not give him a divorce because she was Catholic. Marriage vows in the Catholic ceremony haven't changed for thousands of years.

Of course I'm only hearing half the story, that's the way advice columns usually work whether someone is complaining about a co-worker, spouse, or boss.  We give the person writing the benefit of the doubt and address their concerns.

Of course no means no.  I wasn't suggesting he force her I was suggesting they see a priest.
------------------------
I thought Zone's advice was great.  During my long ago, first marriage I didn't think I could do a thing to improve my situation because he wasn't interested in counseling or talking to me at all, but I've since learned that sometimes you can get people to treat you better by treating them better.
---------------------------

Anyway. I've noticed LSWOTE seems more interested in arguing than paying any attention at all to the people who are sincerely trying to help him.  He says he and his wife first gave up sex because they were "arguing all the time" and I'm seeing a pattern of behavior that explains a lot.


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## Aneeda72 (Apr 27, 2021)

Della said:


> He said she would not give him a divorce because she was Catholic. Marriage vows in the Catholic ceremony haven't changed for thousands of years.
> 
> Of course I'm only hearing half the story, that's the way advice columns usually work whether someone is complaining about a co-worker, spouse, or boss.  We give the person writing the benefit of the doubt and address their concerns.
> 
> ...


Actually, the Catholic Church in the USA operates a bit differently than elsewhere.  But you have always been able to live apart and stay married.  But they were not married in the church by a priest as far as I know.  Because he stated he does not believe in God, or something like that, and he is not Catholic.

Even if they were married in the church, an annulment is possible under the circumstances that he is not Catholic.  A divorce is also possible even if they were both Catholic and married in the church, but without an annulment she could not remarry in the church.  My first husband and I were divorced, and the Catholic Church issued an annulment.

When I remarried, I had to provide proof of the annulment to the priest before my second husband and I were married in the Church.  . Yup, just call me a slow learner.  Never making this mistake again-I would never get married again. . @Della


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## Pepper (Apr 27, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> But @Pepper what if his wife does not want to get back together?  What if his wife is just waiting until their son has graduated from HS and leaving then?  The son is 17.  A mother would usually not disrupt the child’s life at this point in time.  Although, due to covid, his life has probably been disrupted.
> 
> I am terribly curious why you support the OP without knowing the story the wife would/might tell.  Can you explain this to me?  It seems you have chosen a side.  Am I wrong?  Also, there is COVID-19.  The OP talks about using prostitution or having an affair and risks bringing the virus home to his family so he can “have sex”.  To me, IMO, this shows a disregard of the health of the family.


Your first paragraph:  "What if, what if,"  and my answer is how should I know?  I'm not hearing the story from his wife's point of view, so I'm only listening to him.  I am not against prostitution, I've known a few here & there in my time.  

I think I answered basically all your questions, I think.


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## Dana (Apr 27, 2021)

_*The Original Poster has made it quite clear he does not want to continue the conversation. Why can't this be respected?*_


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## JustBonee (Apr 27, 2021)

Dana said:


> _*The Original Poster has made it quite clear he does not want to continue the conversation. Why can't this be respected?*_



He joined the board to get_ reaction _ IMO,  and he got plenty   ...  so he should be happy now.      

This isn't new... .    Many people have joined,    and their very first post is all about their life miseries... mostly made-up  for conversation.
People fall for it.


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## LSWOTE (Apr 27, 2021)

Keesha said:


> I meant, try and ignore them. There are ‘many’ pot stirrers on here who only acknowledge other posters as such. Since this is such a sensitive topic, I can completely understand your defensive ego standing your ground to defend yourself. That’s perfectly normal. You’ve had some incredibly rude and insensitive comments thrown your way. It could be a combination of the fact that you are ‘new’ and the fact that the topic is so personal and vulnerable. Perhaps it makes others uncomfortable. While you are incognito, they may view this much sharing as a complete betrayal. Who knows? I sure don’t. It’s a ‘discussion forum.’ Members can either participate and offer you suggestions to consider or move along if it’s not their ‘cup of tea.’
> 
> I do however understand that dynamics can certainly change in relationships over time and if we don’t address the underlining issues, these changes can take the relationship in a whole new direction which can take on a life of their own.
> 
> ...


Well when I said the lack of intimacy was mutual, I don't mean we ever discussed it, just that both of us were angry at each other a lot so sex became infrequent.   Then I was badly injured, and my recovery was worsened by bull-headedness on my part being unwilling at first to accept the gravity of the situation so my wife stopped seeing me as a strong male and piled a lot of blame on me for the situation as well.  I should note that while I was no longer the bull of the man I was before my injury, I still worked and provided for the family and spent time doing things with my son to the best of my ability and still do to this day.

For years between my injury and problems related to it and my wife's anger with me for being somewhat culpable for worsening my injury when it first happened, I accepted with the lack of intimacy, but eventually I recovered to the point that my sex drive has been getting stronger and stronger and the lack of intimacy has been much more palpable for me.

As far as the prostitutes, they were before I was married to my wife or before I even met her.  When the situation came about where I found out my wife was so anti-prostitute and she ended up asking me whether I had been with prostitutes, I had not expected her negative viewpoint about prostitutes and it was quite clear it would be a big deal.  At that point we had a young child together and we argued about so many things already I didn't think her narrow view of something I had done in the past before I met her was something I had to be accountable to her about.  I don't view prostitutes or sex-work as immoral and despite what people say, it doesn't have to be a degrading situation for either yourself or the prostitute and it wasn't for me.

So now I am 18 years into my marriage and despite her anger she didn't leave and I don't think she will at least until my son graduates high-school in about a year.  She has told me point blank she prefers divorce to counseling, but still I have doubts she will initiate a divorce even then unless things were to become intolerable to her.  

So it is left to me to decide what I can tolerate.


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## Keesha (Apr 27, 2021)

LSWOTE said:


> Well when I said the lack of intimacy was mutual, I don't mean we ever discussed it, just that both of us were angry at each other a lot so sex became infrequent.   Then I was badly injured, and my recovery was worsened by bull-headedness on my part being unwilling at first to accept the gravity of the situation so my wife stopped seeing me as a strong male and piled a lot of blame on me for the situation as well.  I should note that while I was no longer the bull of the man I was before my injury, I still worked and provided for the family and spent time doing things with my son to the best of my ability and still do to this day.
> 
> For years between my injury and problems related to it and my wife's anger with me for being somewhat culpable for worsening my injury when it first happened, I accepted with the lack of intimacy, but eventually I recovered to the point that my sex drive has been getting stronger and stronger and the lack of intimacy has been much more palpable for me.
> 
> ...


Thank you for answering that. It puts a different spin on all of this. I happen to believe your story and think you ARE telling us the truth.
I’ve been in a similar phase with my husband when we were having issues. Many of the things you spoke of rang true for our situation at the time and we had to make some important decisions and grow up a bit.

Unfortunately unhealthy behaviour can become a habit and often we or our partner turn into enablers of such unhealthy social practices where they start to appear normal.

In my opinion, not that I’m an expert on human relationships , but I think actions speak a LOT louder than words and after years of arguing and not getting anywhere, my husband just started acting differently. He matured in ways I can’t quite explain and all I know is that it worked. He earned my trust and respect back which was something I never thought he could do. He made the decision to not listen to my negativity and make the necessary changes and in doing so, greatly helped change the dynamics of our long standing issues. In return I started changing my actions and became more mature and respectful myself. Our relationship has changed drastically without counselling. Counselling only works if you are on the same page and both willing to go.

Perhaps you can make the decision that you are going to accept the relationship as is. If you can’t do that then you might want to prepare yourself for divorce BUT I DO think any relationship can do a complete 180. It depends how important your family is to you. Even if she leaves you when your son graduates, you still need to maintain a civil, healthy relationship for the sake of your son. I’m not suggesting you need to stay together. I’m just suggesting that healthy relationships bring about better well being and ultimate happiness than unhealthy , difficult ones.

You seem to accept ownership in your part of the breakdown of the relationship which shows honesty, maturity and realistic perception. You aren’t blaming this all on her which is good. I personally think there’s hope. If this is something important to you then ACT your way into the person you need to become without any expectations from others. It works.
I wish you the very best.


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## Matrix (Apr 27, 2021)

Please read: https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/about-mature-content-and-links.4175/


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