# What are your thoughts on abortion?



## Denise1952 (Nov 20, 2014)

I feel there are "some" reasons for it, special circumstances.  I won't say what at this time because I am not firm on what I would say is a "special" circumstance.

What I am against, and feel is wrong in so many ways, is the "rights" of the mother "always" coming before the "rights" of an unborn child.

On the last count I could find, 37,236,436 per year, and this is worldwide from this site: http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/

I'm not saying this site is right, I was just looking for a number, that I would figure was close.

I also wonder why there isn't more concern in these political debates/talks etc. when I can't see how people can believe a baby isn't human, or alive when my sister even tells me how after a few weeks she could feel the baby kick.

Ok, I'll throw this out there, I know it's a heavy topic but I don't understand why we talk about all this other horrendous stuff, and skip abortion??


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 20, 2014)

We've talked about it before, even have a Poll...https://www.seniorforums.com/showth...on-Abortion-Take-The-POLL!?highlight=abortion


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## Falcon (Nov 20, 2014)

IMO  It's  *STRICTLY * up to the woman; it's HER body; she can do with it whatever she wants.

I'm fully aware of all the ramifications surrounding the subject. But you asked and that's my response.


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## Meanderer (Nov 20, 2014)

I know that in the dictionary, abortion comes before birth, but in real life it doesn't have to.


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## Shirley (Nov 20, 2014)

I don't think any woman should ever have to have a baby she doesn't want.  I don't think any baby should have to be born to a mother who doesn't want it.


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## Davey Jones (Nov 20, 2014)

As Ive always said in the past on this forum "Its a womens body to do whatever the hell she wants to do with it."


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## Falcon (Nov 20, 2014)

Curious.  Why this topic again?  As Seabreeze mentioned, we've done it before.

Just wondering.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 20, 2014)

Only the woman knows all of her circumstance so only she should decide. It's not my decision to make. it's not your decision to make and it sure as hell isn't the governments.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 20, 2014)

It came up briefly in the Terrorist thread... and I refused to debate it.. and will not get into a "when does life begin" or a personhood debate.  It is my feeling that the decision belongs to the woman.  I may not have made that choice personally, but I would never impose my views on another woman.  That is NOT my right.. I cannot understand why people think they have the right to do so.


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## Ameriscot (Nov 20, 2014)

I think a woman has a right to choose. It's not my business or anyone else's. However, I do get annoyed when people say it's _her_ body.  It isn't only hers, it's also the body of the person she is carrying.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 20, 2014)

Ameriscot said:


> I think a woman has a right to choose. It's not my business or anyone else's. However, I do get annoyed when people say it's _her_ body.  It isn't only hers, it's also the body of the person she is carrying.



oops... never mind... I am trying to behave myself..


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## NancyNGA (Nov 20, 2014)

Falcon said:


> Curious.  Why this topic again?  As Seabreeze mentioned, we've done it before.
> 
> Just wondering.



Slightly off topic, but...

Being relatively new to this forum, I find it difficult to post a new thread, because I have to first search through 
the archives and find out if the subject has already been discussed.  Some forums discourage resurrecting old threads 
and they will often be closed after some time. I'd be curious to know what the policy is here, so I don't make anyone angry.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 20, 2014)

There is no problem at all resurrecting old threads here, in fact it makes it easier to search and read about specific topics.  I linked to the past thread here, because my opinions were already shared there, and there were some good discussion and links that folks may be interested in...and the poll too, which is open for voting.


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## NancyNGA (Nov 20, 2014)

Thanks, as always, SeaBreeze.


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## Denise1952 (Nov 20, 2014)

Ameriscot said:


> I think a woman has a right to choose. It's not my business or anyone else's. However, I do get annoyed when people say it's _her_ body.  It isn't only hers, it's also the body of the person she is carrying.



I see it this way as well, I also can understand "maybe" why people don't want to talk about it.  It's beyond horrible, so maybe it easier to turn our heads and let the unnecessary deaths continue. I guess I am a bit shocked already, at those here that don't see a baby as having a life that deserves protection, as much as anyone elses.

I am as guilty as anyone else, turning away rather then to look at ask, what can we do to change this.  I know there is no convincing someone that has made up their mind with a clear conscience.  I'm grateful to you Ameriscot, for speaking up for the life that is living within a woman.  I just want to say again, I believe there are good reasons for an abortion, but it is not because someone had sex, and oops, forgot to use some contraception.  So who pays for that mistake, an innocent child.

I also am dead set against the equally horrible tactics of killing doctors etc.  You  would think a world full of seemingly advanced mentalities could come up with better ways than needless deaths.


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## Davey Jones (Nov 20, 2014)

rkunsaw said:


> Only the woman knows all of her circumstance so only she should decide. It's not my decision to make. it's not your decision to make and it sure as hell isn't the governments.


 If Obama had his way the government would make all the rules re abortion.


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## Denise1952 (Nov 20, 2014)

Can anyone answer why a person would think the baby is not a living, human being, and if not, what then.  Something less then human so we discard it with the rest of the medical waste?  I'd love someone to prove to me that it is not a human being we are killing, I'd love to be wrong.  When does life start, and what about partial birth, have any of you seen this procedure, can you tell me it was just a blob of protoplasm that was coming out of the womb?

Again, I can see why some won't talk about this, if I am right about life starting at a few weeks, who wants to admit we are killing millions of human beings every year but yet we can point the finger at "murderers" and terrorist, whole other deal right. 

 Maybe some of you even think like scrooge, they aren't worth anything yet, so decrease the surplus population.  Of all the people in the world I would seek wisdom from, it's the elders.  I doubt many will touch this, and not to forget we already talked about it, although I wasn't hear then because I would have been in on that one.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 20, 2014)

Yes... I have answers to the points you raise... I have arguments... and legal facts... However, I am NOT getting into this debate with you.  I have been in many of these debates and they get very ugly.. nobody changes their mind,  and the discussion ususally keeps going round in circles.. with dead horses being beaten..and people getting bent out of shape.  I can already feel the emotionality in your post.   I stated my opinion up thread and that's as far as I'm going.


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## Denise1952 (Nov 20, 2014)

QuickSilver said:


> Yes... I have answers to the points you raise... I have arguments... and legal facts... However, I am NOT getting into this debate with you.  I have been in many of these debates and they get very ugly.. nobody changes their mind,  and the discussion ususally keeps going round in circles.. with dead horses being beaten..and people getting bent out of shape.  I can already feel the emotionality in your post.   I stated my opinion up thread and that's as far as I'm going.



Like I said before, I can understand why many would not want to discuss it.  There are different reasons, I realize that, one being There is more then enough legitimate proof life starts and a few weeks, I mean the baby start developing from just an embryo, into a human child.  You are right that no one would win the debate, but I'm sure that the proof that we have available would more the prove we are allowing babies to be killed by the millions.  Proof isn't enough anymore, it's how many "believe" whether right or wrong, majority wins right.

I will leave it to each persons conscience.  One thing I am sure of, one day justice will be done, just as I am sure those were and will be punished that have wrongfully murdered.  I am just feeling sad for our country right now, that we would not take the time to talk about it, and worse, sweep it under the rug.  Maybe this isn't the place to talk about it, on the other hand, with such a wide variety of people, from all walks of life maybe some good would have come from it.


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## Grumpy Ol' Man (Nov 20, 2014)

QS said it well.  No one ever "wins" in an argument about this topic.  Emotion... religious beliefs... political leanings... so much comes into play that each and every person has strong feelings about.  The argument seems to never get settled.  The pendulum swings too far both ways.  One side pushes the "life begins at conception" concept.  Hence, the 'morning after' pill is considered abortion.  That side also invokes caveats into law that set rules about distance from hospitals, waiting periods, counseling by those opposed, etc.  The other side pushes the pendulum the other way, saying it is the woman's right clear into the third trimester.  Some accept the rape/incest exclusion.  Others do not.  

The Good Lord created us as humans... not the "all knowing".  He kept some things to himself, which we will not have the answers for until we enter the next life.  One of those mysteries is when does he breathe the breath of life into a human being.  I can't answer that and will not attempt to.  

Most of the politicians making the laws have never walked in the shoes of an impregnated rape victim or a severely handicapped female who was impregnated or someone carrying a Thalidomide baby.  They legislate to maintain a voting block rather than from reality.  I have an opinion, but will not share it here.  My opinion is my business, just as is the opinion of a lady who has just found out she is pregnant.  It's opinion only.  None of that counts, since any aspect of abortion is now covered by a plethora of legislation and reams of court decisions.


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## Denise1952 (Nov 20, 2014)

These are no excuses to ignore, or just sweep it under the rug, but it is more comfortable.  Like I said, I understand.  Many other things are discussed here that no one ever agrees on, but evidently abortion is one not even the most close-minded are not willing to take on.  My conscience is clear, at least for trying to discuss it with people, maybe learn some things I don't know about it, and maybe teach some a few things they didn't know.  

I'm gone, and when I say I'm gone from a thread, I mean it.  Do with it what you want.


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## SeaBreeze (Nov 20, 2014)

Ideally, a woman would have safe sex by using any method of birth control that is available these days, and not get pregnant to begin with. Having the baby and giving it up for adoption to a couple who can't have children is the next best thing in my opinion. But, if she wants to have an abortion, it should be her personal choice, and one that I'm sure is very hard to make. I personally have never had an abortion.

Some people are completely against abortion for _any _reason, including incest, rape, or medical concerns for the baby or the mother, those are usually guided by religious/political beliefs. Some are against abortion, but allow some exceptions in certain cases.

  Like Grumpy said, some don't want abortion, even at the point of conception, and don't even approve of the morning after pill.  Some who are against abortion because it kills, are in favor of the death penalty, and wars which take thousands of innocent lives.

Another good point he made, was politicians wanting to make laws against abortion have never walked in the shoes of an impregnated woman who was raped, or one who finds her baby is severely handicapped.  Funny, the same people who are against abortion, are also against the means to prevent abortion...birth control.

I personally would rather see a woman terminate an unwanted pregnancy, than have the baby and drown it in a toilet, or dump it in a dumpster...a situation that happens way too often, IMO.  Or, the mothers who just raise the child with resentment, improper feeding, no medical attention, sometimes locked in a closet or basement, suffering years of abusive treatment.


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## Butterfly (Nov 21, 2014)

I believe the decision is the woman's, not mine.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 21, 2014)

Using your logic Denise, the use of condoms or the pill is preventing a human being born. Do you think we should outlaw their use?

The debate about abortion is who gets to decide. Do you think you have the right to decide what other people do? I think the woman is the only one who knows and understands her individual circumstances. 

No one is promoting or encouraging abortion, but the option should be available without restriction.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 21, 2014)

I don't believe the decision to have an abortion is ever an easy one.  Women using abortion as "birth control" is a one in a million thing.  For one thing, abortion is not free.. it's between $500 and $1,000 at clinics.. not a huge amount but very difficult for a women already under financial difficulty.  AND abortion is not painless.     I believe all women struggle coming to the decision and it shouldn't be made more difficult with unnecessary invasive ultrasounds and the like...   The bugaboo of "late term" abortion is a red herring.  The vast majority of abortions are performed in the 1st trimester.. abortions done later in gestation are always due to medical conditions.. and 3rd trimester abortions are solely to save the mother or to abort a fetus that would have no chance of living through birth. And even those are very rare.   As others have stated.. We have no business making decisions for others.   We don't know the family, or financial situation leading to the decision to terminate.  We don't know if the pregnancy was the result of rape or incest.  AND it's really not anyone's business.  The decision is protected by the Constitutional right to privacey between a woman and her doctor. What seems so amazing to me is that people largely in favor of smaller government have no problem extending it's reach into every woman's uterus..   

As Old Man so elequently put it, there is no winning in the debate about this.. the personhood discussion combines politics and religion and is incredibley volitile. It only causes people to harden their position  and become more nasty.  Better to avoid that topic.


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## shedevil7953 (Nov 21, 2014)

Glad I don't have to make that decision .


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## rkunsaw (Nov 21, 2014)

shedevil7953 said:


> Glad I don't have to make that decision .



:lol:  There are some who would be happy to make all your decisions for you.


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## shedevil7953 (Nov 21, 2014)

I meant glad I'm not in the position to have to make a decision whether or not to kill my unborn child.


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## rkunsaw (Nov 21, 2014)

shedevil7953 said:


> I meant glad I'm not in the position to have to make a decision whether or not to kill my unborn child.



I was sure that's what you meant.


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## drifter (Nov 21, 2014)

I like Larry's first comment on the subject so I'll say Amen to it.


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## Butterfly (Nov 21, 2014)

I am so glad I never had to face making that decision.


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## Don M. (Nov 21, 2014)

The subject of Abortion always seems to be looking at the Woman's perspective and actions.  However, the last time I checked it takes a Male to initiate the entire process.  Far too many of our children are being born to women who have been abandoned by the child's father.  Many of these women probably feel desperation concerning their ability to afford to raise a child, and give that child the support it needs....and thus, see abortion as their best alternative.  

I would love to see far stronger laws forcing Men to assume the responsibility for their actions.  With DNA tests, etc., determining the father should be a minor issue.  If these "Walking Sperm Banks" refuse to step up to the plate, and at least provide decent Child Support, they should be given a Free Vasectomy.  If some people want to live like rabbits, that is their option....but I don't see where society has any obligation to "Subsidize" their animal habits.


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## Rainee (Nov 22, 2014)

I tell you what although I am not for abortion.but in this circumstances I was all for it then.. my story of why ?  when I was left a widow.. I was raped by a fellow and from this I fell pregnant.. 

what can I do I thought.?. gee my husband just passed away 6 months earlier and I gave birth to a son just 3 months after David died.I was only 23 ? and 2 months after that I came home and a man was in my little cabi, he was a friend of my mothers.. it was scary for sure.. I thought he would kill me and my two littlies..  he raped me, belted me up .. because I wouldn`t go out with him..  and said don`t you ever mention this to a soul nor your mother as  I`ll be watching you and you will be sorry you mentioned it .. so I wished I was able to then have an abortion..

 no one to talk to and no one to ask for advice, my mother would not have believed me at all and would have called me a tramp.. I felt ashamed.. I  waited till 6 weeks and thought I`ll have to go to a doc and see what I can do, as I knew I was pregnant. as I walked everywhere with my two . the baby in a pram..it was so  hard pushing up the hill and lo and behold I miss-carried.. what a blessing in disguise,  I then had to go to a doc and he put me in hospital for a little while, I had to report it but still I wouldn`t say who did it as I didn`t know him.,

 my mother had to look after the children and thought I had to have a little work done after my son was born she never knew the truth.. then after I came home I thought what do others do in this same situation.? . so yes in some circumstances I believe in abortion! you would live with contemp and the baby would not really be felt in the same way that you would feel for your child and also  for sanity and well being... no way could I ever have faced living being pregnant and having a little fellow 6 mths old.and give birth to a new baby.. why , how , where did that one come from ?. 

my mother wondered what had happened to my face as it was bashed about I said ohh I fell down the stairs.. too ashamed to tell her any thing.. life is strange in some ways, I just wished I had my mothers support in all things and could talk to her about everything but I couldn`t .. so had to bear it all on my own, but tell you what it made me tougher.. and I got through it all .


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## QuickSilver (Nov 22, 2014)

How courageous of you to share your story.  I cannot imagine how difficult a time it was for you.  You did what was best for you and your children.  Thanks again for sharing.


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## Twixie (Nov 22, 2014)

Rainee said:


> I tell you what although I am not for abortion.but in this circumstances I was all for it then.. my story of why ?  when I was left a widow.. I was raped by a fellow and from this I fell pregnant..
> what can I do I thought.?. gee my husband just passed away 6 months earlier and I gave birth to a son just 3 months after David died.I was only 23 ? and 2 months after that I came home and a man was in my little cabi, he was a friend of my mothers.. it was scary for sure.. I thought he would kill me and my two littlies..  he raped me, belted me up .. because I wouldn`t go out with him..  and said don`t you ever mention this to a soul nor your mother as  I`ll be watching you and you will be sorry you mentioned it .. so I wished I was able to then have an abortion.. no one to talk to and no one to ask for advice, my mother would not have believed me at all and would have called me a tramp.. I felt ashamed.. I  waited till 6 weeks and thought I`ll have to go to a doc and see what I can do, as I knew I was pregnant. as I walked everywhere with my two . the baby in a pram..it was so  hard pushing up the hill and lo and behold I miss-carried.. what a blessing in disguise,  I then had to go to a doc and he put me in hospital for a little while, I had to report it but still I wouldn`t say who did it as I didn`t know him., my mother had to look after the children and thought I had to have a little work done after my son was born she never knew the truth.. then after I came home I thought what do others do in this same situation.? . so yes in some circumstances I believe in abortion! you would live with contemp and the baby would not really be felt in the same way that you would feel for your child and also  for sanity and well being... no way could I ever have faced living being pregnant and having a little fellow 6 mths old.and give birth to a new baby.. why , how , where did that one come from ?. my mother wondered what had happened to my face as it was bashed about I said ohh I fell down the stairs.. too ashamed to tell her any thing.. life is strange in some ways, I just wished I had my mothers support in all things and could talk to her about everything but I couldn`t .. so had to bear it all on my own, but tell you what it made me tougher.. and I got through it all .



That's hard Rainee...but you came out the other side..well done..

I knew a girl with learning difficulties...she had been raped twice by fellow inmates of a ''safe house''..

She was a Catholic..abortion was out of the question for her...she gave birth to a girl first and a boy afterwards..

I often wondered how she actually felt about the children..as she kept them with the aid of her family..

I know it's not the children's fault..but you'd be reminded of your rapists every time you looked at them...


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## Warrigal (Nov 22, 2014)

We all have to live with some decisions and it is not for any of us to judge.

Rainee has just given us one of the reasons why. I never had an abortion myself but I once tried to terminate a pregnancy with pills. Fortunately the pills were not intended for that purpose but I was only 19 years old and unmarried and I was ashamed. I was lucky though. My family stood by me, I married my boyfriend and we were able to keep our baby daughter when she arrived. It could have been otherwise if I did not have that love and support.

Not only is it the woman's right to decide (choose makes it sound much too easy; it's not at all easy) it is no-one's right to judge and condemn.

Thank you, Rainee, for revealing the pain behind the decisions that women must sometimes make.


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## QuickSilver (Nov 23, 2014)

The government should stay the heck out of the abortion issue.  It's private and it's between a woman and her doctor. As has been stated over and over, no one knows the circumstances of an individual and what leads her to the decision.  People wanting smaller government have no problem with it extending into everyone's bedroom and uterus.  No problem with investigating each and every miscarriage and with demanding prison sentences for women having an abortion.  

AND if the hypocrisy wasn't blatant enough.. The same group of people who exalt the fetus couldn't care less about it once it is born.  The mother becomes the worthless tramp who got knocked up and the baby is considered HER problem.  Cuts are made to food stamps and free childcare which would enable a woman to work.  Cuts are made to education and healthcare for uninsured kids.   IMO.. if Society is going to mandate each pregnancy be carried to term... it better damn well be willing to care for the children that are born.  But all we hear about is the lazy poor.. and why don't they get off their asses and get a job..  Kids??  Seriously??


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## Twixie (Nov 23, 2014)

Until a while ago..getting pregnant here was a life style..

Free housing..benefits..

I knew a lady who had 6...lived in a 5 bed house...


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## QuickSilver (Nov 23, 2014)

Oh yes.... the Welfare Queens!   Raking in the dough.. living high off the hog..  Everyone KNOWS a person who knows a person who is soaking the taxpayer for a fortune...  in reality....


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## Sassycakes (Jun 14, 2016)

I am very grateful I never was in a position to even think about having an abortion. A friend of mind however found herself in that position. Her first  child was born with a genetic problem. The little girl lived a very short life filled with pain. She passed away at 2 yrs old. My friend decided never to have another child. Unfortunately she did get pregnant again 6 yrs later. They tested the baby  and sadly it  had the same gene. So my friend had an abortion. I felt she made the right decision. I would never condemn anyone for making that choice.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 14, 2016)

The government should stay the heck out of the abortion issue.  It's private and it's between a woman and her doctor. As has been stated over and over, no one knows the circumstances of an individual and what leads her to the decision.  People wanting smaller government have no problem with it extending into everyone's bedroom and uterus.

Very well said...you have my vote. I can't add much more to it except to say that we have to remind our daughters and grandkids, great grandkids, any young women we know that they have an obligation to keep up the fight for choice. Girls who were born decades after Roe v. Wade don't remember the era of coat hangers and all the women who died. They don't realize all the looney tunes trying to chip away at access to safe legal abortion. It's one of the heart breaking choices a woman has to ever make...don't punish her on top of that. She shouldn't have to travel three states away, or have a fetus development lecture or a mandated waiting period. It should be a woman's right across the board.


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## Guitarist (Jun 14, 2016)

Oh, great, here we go again.  It's not enough to start controversial NEW threads, now we've got to go raking up old ones.  

Doesn't anyone have anything positive -- and interesting -- to post about?


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## Robusta (Jun 15, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> Oh, great, here we go again.  It's not enough to start controversial NEW threads, now we've got to go raking up old ones.
> 
> Doesn't anyone have anything positive -- and interesting -- to post about?




So us new members are required to check the archives before we discuss something on our minds? Just because the topic was discussed three years ago, all is settled and no other opinions are welcome?

Kind of takes the meaning away from being a "Discussion"forum doesn't it!

And on topic, I will have an opinion on abortion when I become a 15 year old poverty stricken pregnant girl!


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## QuickSilver (Jun 15, 2016)

Guitarist said:


> Oh, great, here we go again.  It's not enough to start controversial NEW threads, now we've got to go raking up old ones.
> 
> Doesn't anyone have anything positive -- and interesting -- to post about?




There is NOTHING wrong with controversial threads... nor is there anything wrong with bringing up old threads for discussion.  What is wrong is someone trying to police what can be discussed and what can't.


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## Jackie22 (Jun 15, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> There is NOTHING wrong with controversial threads... nor is there anything wrong with bringing up old threads for discussion.  What is wrong is someone trying to police what can be discussed and what can't.



Amen to this!


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## Warrigal (Jun 15, 2016)

This is not in any way a judgement because we do not know the"severe circumstances leading to a small number of women who choose to terminate a pregnancy after 20 weeks' gestation" , but it is a reminder that abortion is a procedure unlike all other medical interventions.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-15/babies-of-late-terminations-left-to-die-without-care/7512618

It must be very distressing to the doctors and nurses working in the hospitals.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 15, 2016)

Late term abortions are generally never used because a woman simply doesn't want the baby..  You won't see 8 or 9 month pregnant women waddling into an abortion clinic and demanding an abortion because she woke up that morning and decided she didn't want to be pregnant any more..  That is the nonsense some anti-choice groups would have you believe.   No.. late term abortion is for termination of a pregnancy that would not culminate into a viable infant.. fetus's with gross abnormalities that would not survive more than a few hours out of the womb.. or in rare instances when continuing the pregnancy would mean death to the mother, child or both.

Generally women KNOW very early whether or not the wish to continue a pregnancy.  EPT kits can detect a pregnancy within a week or so of conception.   The vast majority of abortions are performed early in the 1st trimester.. This is a woman's right IMO.. and I don't know what I would have done as a pregnant and scared teen....   Since I was terrified of how my parents would have reacted, I may have gone to a back alley butcher...  Thankfully women don't have to... but not for lack of trying on the Right.


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## senile1 (Jun 15, 2016)

I am against abortion being used as a contraceptive and/or a means of a way out of an unwanted pregnany, but I am more against any legislation which takes this right away from women. There are many scenarios abortion may be a viable option.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 15, 2016)

I think that sums up my feelings pretty well...   It's really none of my business what choice another woman makes..


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## Don M. (Jun 15, 2016)

Robusta said:


> So us new members are required to check the archives before we discuss something on our minds? Just because the topic was discussed three years ago, all is settled and no other opinions are welcome?
> 
> Kind of takes the meaning away from being a "Discussion"forum doesn't it!
> 
> And on topic, I will have an opinion on abortion when I become a 15 year old poverty stricken pregnant girl!




It appears that there are several new participants on this forum...which is a Good Thing.  There is Nothing Wrong with bringing up an old topic that they have not participated in...in fact, new members might have new ideas that were Not presented in the older discussions.  Welcome New Members...and Feel Free to express your opinions...and ignore the Old Farts who that might irritate.


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## senile1 (Jun 15, 2016)

Don M. said:


> It appears that there are several new participants on this forum...which is a Good Thing.  There is Nothing Wrong with bringing up an old topic that they have not participated in...in fact, new members might have new ideas that were Not presented in the older discussions.  Welcome New Members...and Feel Free to express your opinions...and ignore the Old Farts who that might irritate.




One should feel free to post and respond as they desire, never let negative feed back influence you. Actually negative feed back just gives me the urge to post that much more.


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## Shalimar (Jun 15, 2016)

I concur. New ideas on old threads, controversial or otherwise, are welcome. We have admin/mod, to set the rules on sf, we certainly do not require the thread police. Lolol.


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## Butterfly (Jun 15, 2016)

QuickSilver said:


> I think that sums up my feelings pretty well...   It's really none of my business what choice another woman makes..



I agree.  The decision belongs to the woman, without government intervention, and without judgment by others.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 15, 2016)

Two things that would help reduce the number of abortions greatly. Free, readily available contraception...genius. For women without insurance or the very low income deciding between food or contraception...that's not an easy choice. Also the same bozos who want to eliminate abortion also want to eliminate the welfare and social outreach programs that might let some women decide to keep their babies. Provide options...education, child care, mentoring programs, job training, housing...for the long term.


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## Lon (Jun 15, 2016)

I feel it's a woman's choice and she then lives with it.


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## Peppermint Patty (Jun 15, 2016)

[h=1]What are your thoughts on abortion?[/h]
It is murder.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 15, 2016)

It is murder.

...I'm going to remain utterly civil...but if a fetus is already dead or has a condition incompatible with life outside the uterus, in the case of rape or incest, if the young woman is perhaps fourteen or younger, if prolonging the pregnancy could kill both the woman and fetus...then I feel it's compassion, not murder. My G-d doesn't believe in suffering like that.


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## Don M. (Jun 15, 2016)

I think that money spent on supporting things like Planned Parenthood, family planning in our schools, and supplying birth control means to our younger vulnerable populations is money Well Spent.  Heaven knows, we already have far too many unwanted children being neglected or abused by unfit parents.


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## Butterfly (Jun 16, 2016)

Don M. said:


> I think that money spent on supporting things like Planned Parenthood, family planning in our schools, and supplying birth control means to our younger vulnerable populations is money Well Spent.  Heaven knows, we already have far too many unwanted children being neglected or abused by unfit parents.



I completely agree -- it IS money well spent.


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## QuickSilver (Jun 16, 2016)

It always perplexed me that some of the more vocal anti-choice people are also against birth control.   Never could understand that.


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## fureverywhere (Jun 16, 2016)

It always perplexed me that some of the more vocal anti-choice people are also against birth control.   Never could understand that. 

Then it becomes completely misogynistic. In their mindset a woman's function is to reproduce. She shouldn't be having sex if not to procreate. But those same people believe in the double standard that for men it's different of course.


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## senile1 (Jun 16, 2016)

Denise1952 said:


> I see it this way as well, I also can understand "maybe" why people don't want to talk about it.  It's beyond horrible, so maybe it easier to turn our heads and let the unnecessary deaths continue. I guess I am a bit shocked already, at those here that don't see a baby as having a life that deserves protection, as much as anyone elses.
> 
> I am as guilty as anyone else, turning away rather then to look at ask, what can we do to change this.  I know there is no convincing someone that has made up their mind with a clear conscience.  I'm grateful to you Ameriscot, for speaking up for the life that is living within a woman.  I just want to say again, I believe there are good reasons for an abortion, but it is not because someone had sex, and oops, forgot to use some contraception.  So who pays for that mistake, an innocent child.
> 
> I also am dead set against the equally horrible tactics of killing doctors etc.  You  would think a world full of seemingly advanced mentalities could come up with better ways than needless deaths.




Whilst these subjects are very controversial, it is good to have intelligent  expression of opinions. Is any subject ever really "dead"?? Not as long as the issue is still in practice. As for the killing of Doctors, tis not every anti abortionist's will, but the will of a sick few. I have always maintained there is no reason to dis each other over a difference of opinions/ ideology.


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## Sunny (Jun 17, 2016)

I don't have anything new to add to this debate, but I can't see why anyone should be annoyed by "raking up old subjects."  If you're not interested in discussing a subject, just don't go there. God knows, there are enough
other subjects on this forum!

As someone has pointed out, even a subject that has been thoroughly discussed is "new" to the newer members of the forum.


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## Ruthanne (Jun 17, 2016)

Sunny said:


> I don't have anything new to add to this debate, but I can't see why anyone should be annoyed by "raking up old subjects."  If you're not interested in discussing a subject, just don't go there. God knows, there are enough
> other subjects on this forum!
> 
> As someone has pointed out, even a subject that has been thoroughly discussed is "new" to the newer members of the forum.


I agree!


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## nitelite (Jun 17, 2016)

I am a woman and believe I should have control over my body under any circumstances. I do not feel the government should have the right to dictate to any woman what she has to do with her body. Abortions were illegal in the 60's and prior and some horrific stories came from that law, unwanted babies from rape or other circumstances that suffered, botched illegal abortions, maiming of women's bodies, and death. Your body - your choice.


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