# Coping with covid and changing the dialogue



## chic (Oct 2, 2021)

Five countries have now decided to abolish covid restrictions and reopen fully. Most recently, Norway, Singapore, which is a principality I think?, Thailand, Croatia and Romania where only 30% of the population has been vaccinated. (You could throw Portugal in there too where they have a 98% vaccination rate and that would make six).

These countries believe 0% covid tolerance is not realistic and are preparing for any waves of surges that may result from reopening. Their narrative will change also from presenting covid as a deadly virus that's going to kill everyone, to a calmer approach, that this is another form of flu which "most" people will survive. They are not promoting the vilifying of any group/groups. People will have freedom of choice again sanctioned by their governments.

Sadly none of these countries is a major player on the global stage, but it seems like a move in a positive direction compared to what is happening in Australia, Western Europe and North America.


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## Warrigal (Oct 2, 2021)

Australia has a plan to have open borders by December but conditions will still apply to the unvaccinated.

As for Singapore, it is not a principality. It is an island nation with a democratic government. It is also a very ordered  country and below is the situation as of 27 September until 24 October. Hardly open slather. The devil is always in the detail -

This article will serve as a *comprehensive one-stop resource* for the current state of COVID-19 laws in Singapore. It is accurate as of 27 September 2021 and reflects the key changes as of 27 September 2021 – Stabilisation Phase, which is expected to last until 24 October 2021. You can count on us to update this article whenever the laws change.
This article will cover Singapore’s laws and regulations regarding:

Jump to section
Social gatherings
Mask-wearing
Vaccination
Dining
Work
Events
Sports and fitness activities
Permitted and prohibited activities
COVID-19 testing
Overseas travel

As more are getting vaccinated against COVID-19 across the world, some countries have begun to make COVID-19 vaccine passports available. These “passports” allow vaccinated persons to travel with fewer or no restrictions. In time, Singapore might also integrate a COVID-19 vaccine passport into its travel or event regulations.
—
It is imperative that we continue to work together to keep Singapore a safe and healthy community even during these tough times. The government will review the current measures and may adjust the regulations accordingly if the current COVID-19 situation remains stable after 2 weeks.

We will be updating this article as and when such new COVID-19 laws are put in place. In the meantime, we hope you stay positive and test negative.

COVID-19 Rules and Restrictions in Singapore (Sep 2021) - SingaporeLegalAdvice.com


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 2, 2021)

700,000 people have now died in the USA of Covid.  May whatever God they believe have mercy on their souls, and may their families find some peace and comfort.

*I do not want to get in a discussion about these numbers.  Please refrain from this type of response.*


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## Devi (Oct 2, 2021)

Aneeda, you posted it, so we can respond. Only you can decide whether you want to discuss thereafter.

Apparently you should check out whether that 700,000 is true or not. I've read it's not, and that some hospitals are inflating their numbers because they get paid for instances of Covid.


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## Sunny (Oct 2, 2021)

Devi, please read. And think.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/us/us-covid-deaths-700k.html


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## Tom 86 (Oct 2, 2021)

For the last two weekends, the Colts football stadium has opened to a total capacity. of 670,00 people in Indianapolis.  Also, the Pacers just said their upcoming season would be fully open.  Both say not looking for Vax cards or masks.


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 2, 2021)

I’m not comfortable with the every man for himself, let the chips fall where they may, approach to public health. 

I’m ok with the goal of 100% of eligible people being vaccinated.

According to the AMA 96% of its members have been vaccinated.

It seems to me that if people would consult and follow the advice of their PCP the vaccination rate for the eligible population would also approach 96%.


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## AnnieA (Oct 2, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Devi, please read. And think.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/us/us-covid-deaths-700k.html



NYT isn't a trusted source ...lots of retractions in recent years and unretracted instances of deliberate stealth editing.   Instead of solely posting a link to them, it would be great to see an excerpt with pertinent original source info so that we can evaluate validity beyond what they publish.


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## Devi (Oct 2, 2021)

Aside from what @AnnieA said, there are other sources. The New York times has its own biases. Read it as you will. And think.


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## Don M. (Oct 2, 2021)

Regardless of individual positions of the severity of this virus, and the effectiveness of the vaccines, etc., etc., the simple fact is that thousands of people are dying every week and thousands more are clogging up our hospitals.  Our doctors and nurses are becoming increasingly stressed due to the overwhelming workload, and those seeking care for other issues are finding such care harder to find.


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## terry123 (Oct 2, 2021)

All three tv stations reported today that the 700,000 is correct.  I have heard it several times this morning and also on GMA.  I believe it.


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## ManjaroKDE (Oct 2, 2021)

The CDC has* their numbers* which is a fairly reliable source for me. 696,600 is pretty close to 700k in my book.


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## WheatenLover (Oct 2, 2021)

700,000 deaths divided by 50 states is an average of 14,000 people per state.

If terrorists killed that many people in the US, I bet everyone would be up in arms. Covid does it, and so many don't care, at least where I live.


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## win231 (Oct 2, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> 700,000 people have now died in the USA of Covid.  May whatever God they believe have mercy on their souls, and may their families find some peace and comfort.
> 
> *I do not want to get in a discussion about these numbers.  Please refrain from this type of response.*


LOL.  You & my sister would get along great.  She also likes to hit & run.


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## Irwin (Oct 2, 2021)

chic said:


> Five countries have now decided to abolish covid restrictions and reopen fully. Most recently, Norway, Singapore, which is a principality I think?, Thailand, Croatia and Romania where only 30% of the population has been vaccinated. (You could throw Portugal in there too where they have a 98% vaccination rate and that would make six).
> 
> These countries believe 0% covid tolerance is not realistic and are preparing for any waves of surges that may result from reopening. Their narrative will change also from presenting covid as a deadly virus that's going to kill everyone, to a calmer approach, that this is another form of flu which "most" people will survive. They are not promoting the vilifying of any group/groups. People will have freedom of choice again sanctioned by their governments.
> 
> Sadly none of these countries is a major player on the global stage, but it seems like a move in a positive direction compared to what is happening in Australia, Western Europe and North America.


Norway has a vaccination rate of 67% being fully vaccinated and another 10% having had at least a first dose. Compare that to the U.S. with only 56%. That's why they're able to reopen fully. If more Americans would get vaccinated, we'd be able to reopen, too.

And they haven't classified covid-19 as "just another flu." 
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/norway-reclassify-covid-as-flu/


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## Aneeda72 (Oct 3, 2021)

win231 said:


> LOL.  You & my sister would get along great.  She also likes to hit & run.


You can discuss the numbers until you know what freezes over @win231 same applies to anyone else @Devi.  *I said I didn’t want to discuss it, I could not care less if others want to continually beat a dead horse-the virus.  It is what it is.  *

I probably would get along well with your sister @win231.  . We could discuss your strange sometimes unrealistic view points, you have, in private, I could get all the low down on you, and then I could post it here. Please introduce me to her.


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## oldman (Oct 3, 2021)

I think a lot of people are making their decision based under the false narrative that “any vaccine is better than no vaccine.” I do believe that the people who have not yet taken the vaccine is due to a lack of trust from all of the rhetoric that we hear and for some others, it well may be the ingredients of the vaccine itself. 

I heard one medical care provider state that he was going to lose his job at the hospital because he won't be taking the vaccine due to his asthma. He stated that the vaccine contains Ethylene Glycol, which can cause allergies and with his asthma being as bad as it is, he isn't willing to take the chance of getting an allergy on top of it. 

It is people like this that need to be given an exception, IMO.


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## Shero (Oct 3, 2021)

United States

Coronavirus Cases:

*44,490,897*


Deaths:

*719,674*

Recovered:

*33,917,959*

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


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## Buckeye (Oct 3, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> For the last two weekends, the Colts football stadium has opened to a total capacity. of *670,00 people* in Indianapolis. Also, the Pacers just said their upcoming season would be fully open. Both say not looking for Vax cards or masks.


For the record, Lucas Oil Stadium capacity is 67,000.


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## Devi (Oct 3, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> You can discuss the numbers until you know what freezes over @win231 same applies to anyone else @Devi.  *I said I didn’t want to discuss it, I could not care less if others want to continually beat a dead horse-the virus.  It is what it is.  *


Aneeda, for the record, I wasn't suggesting that you personally should discuss it.


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## squatting dog (Oct 3, 2021)

During his Thursday floor speech, Senator Ron Johnson pointed out that 63% of all coronavirus Delta deaths in the last 7.5 months were fully vaccinated individuals.
The media won’t tell you this.
The social media giants will censor this.

So, Ron Johnson dropped this truth-bomb on the floor of the US Senate.
"POTUS says this is a pandemic of the unvaxxed, yet, Data from England show 63% of Delta deaths in last 7.5 months were fully vaxxed. 

Why won’t the CDC or government share US data with the American people? 
What is the justification of mandates and refusal to recognize natural immunity?

Obviously, the recent surge in cases and deaths is NOT a pandemic of the unvaccinated!


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## win231 (Oct 3, 2021)

Aneeda72 said:


> You can discuss the numbers until you know what freezes over @win231 same applies to anyone else @Devi.  *I said I didn’t want to discuss it, I could not care less if others want to continually beat a dead horse-the virus.  It is what it is.  *
> 
> I probably would get along well with your sister @win231.  . We could discuss your strange sometimes unrealistic view points, you have, in private, I could get all the low down on you, and then I could post it here. Please introduce me to her.


Sorry, but I just can't introduce you (or anyone else) to her.  I wouldn't wish her on my worst enemy.


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## cdestroyer (Oct 3, 2021)

this is what 700,000 covid deaths looks like


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## win231 (Oct 3, 2021)

cdestroyer said:


> this is what 700,000 covid deaths looks like
> 
> 
> View attachment 187151


Wow, that's really impressive!

And dramatic!

It would be even more impressive if it was true.


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## Warrigal (Oct 3, 2021)

When I hear about big numbers of people dying or being killed I always picture the girls in the school I taught at lined up in front of me  on the quadrangle for morning assembly. There were about 640 girls but since the average high school in Sydney is 1000 students, try to imagine how many high schools it would take to achieve the number of half a million people dead from Covid. The maths is simple and the answer is 5,000. That's five thousand schools full of dead people. I know this sounds ridiculous but that is how I picture such a large number of people. Since Delta came on the scene the US tally has risen by another two high schools.

The death toll in Australia is a bit over 1,300. That's two schools like the one I taught at. A lot less but still a tragedy if even half of them didn't need to die.


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## chic (Oct 3, 2021)

I didn't intend this to be an argument on whether covid exists or not. Or whether people have died from it or not. I just wanted to relate that several countries have recently decided to fully reopen regardless of vaccination percentages while changing the dialogue from one of panic to one of management. It's the change of attitude I find promising though some will disagree.


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## HoneyNut (Oct 3, 2021)

WheatenLover said:


> If terrorists killed that many people in the US, I bet everyone would be up in arms. Covid does it, and so many don't care, at least where I live.


I agree people don't act like they are able to recognize an invisible threat.  If covid was a bunch of drones flying into the US from another country and dropping poisonous powder on people that had varying effects but killed some of the people, I imagine almost everyone would be in agreement we would need to fight the threat.
My experience from having gotten some microscopes several years ago and looking at what I found in the puddles (that I walk through and wear those shoes in the house!), was that I no longer have a 5 second rule.  I have seen the previously unseen and eek!
I sure hope that the pandemic isn't a lesson learned by China, people are so paranoid that China released it on purpose, but my feeling is that they didn't but they sure have seen now what power they have if they wanted to kill off US citizens, while simultaneously being able to protect their own citizens.  We have shown ourselves unable to cooperate against this type of threat.  We have exposed a weakness to everyone, all the enemy would need to do is sow paranoia about thinking the threat is fake and that we can't trust each other or our government.  It is certainly very educational.  
There was a YouTube (I only saw the title and description tho, didn't watch it) about how this "mild" pandemic is good for us to learn how to prepare for a more serious one.


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## HoneyNut (Oct 3, 2021)

chic said:


> I just wanted to relate that several countries have recently decided to fully reopen regardless of vaccination percentages while changing the dialogue from one of panic to one of management.


Oh, sorry for my above digression then!  
It is requiring some flexibility to make the adjustment.  My thinking is still swinging back and forth.  One day I decide that since I have been vaccinated and have less chance of bad outcome, that I should engage unprotected with the world again.  The next I feel like I should wait until after I get the booster since the Israeli data showed Pfizer was only 40% protective against Delta and that immunity waned with time.   Then I think I should wait for the booster PLUS wait for hospital usage to drop (just in case).  Then I think I should wait for all three of a) booster b) hospital capacity and c) a pill that treats covid.
I know they are saying now that Delta is so infectious that "zero Covid" is not achievable now.  On the other hand, I am so close to retirement and it would be too bad to die off and not get to enjoy retirement.  Every time I see someone my age in the Covid obituaries I feel extra sorry for that person who probably worked like a dog all their career and then lost the enjoyment of retirement and their later years.
And in addition to the worry about death, although I knew that people at work had lost a father, cousin, and friend's mom, honestly dead people are rather a nebulous worry compared to the increasing number of coworkers now that have had Covid and survived, but have lingering issues.  They are very 'brain foggy' in meetings, and some are not back in physical health yet months after being sick.   I don't want to have brain or other issues, and having living people that I interact with suffering covid effects is much more "real" to me than people who have died.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 3, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> During his Thursday floor speech, Senator Ron Johnson pointed out that 63% of all coronavirus Delta deaths in the last 7.5 months were fully vaccinated individuals.
> The media won’t tell you this.
> The social media giants will censor this.
> 
> ...


Here is link to video where he states the above information squatting dog posted.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443777704994672644


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## John cycling (Oct 3, 2021)

HoneyNut said:


> people don't act like they are able to recognize an invisible threat.



As opposed to thinking that invisible things are real, and that real things aren't real but invisible.



HoneyNut said:


> If covid was a bunch of drones flying into the US from another country and dropping poisonous powder on people that had varying effects but killed some of the people, I imagine almost everyone would be in agreement we would need to fight the threat.



Right now people see the drones, and the poisons falling from the skies, but they think that the poisons will save them from certain death, because the enemy told all the people that the poisons would save them from invisible things that are killing them, and that the poisons that are really killing them are completely safe.



HoneyNut said:


> all the enemy would need to do is sow paranoia



Yes, and that's exactly what they have been doing.


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## HoneyNut (Oct 3, 2021)

Wow it is too bad when congresspeople promote mis-information.  It's like we can't trust politicians ;-)
The stats for my state of Nebraska from their website says this year 32 vaccinated people died of covid and 775 not vaccinated people died of covid.  I work that out as 4% of Nebraska deaths were in vaccinated people.


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## Tom 86 (Oct 3, 2021)

What's bad I remember as a kid getting the polio sugar cube at the fairgrounds.  We went because we WANTED to go to not get polio.  Same with the smallpox round shot in the arm.

  Now our fearless dictator has "mandated" that everyone working in a hospital, Dr's office & any company with over 100 people all have to go get vaccinated.  Not the person's choice.  

  So there are now thousands of nurses, Drs & people in factories walking out because they were told they had to get it.  Not their choice. 
That is affecting health care real badly. Same for stores & factories, not enough workers to keep running or businesses open that don't have cooks or waitresses.  
  A lot of nurses are setting up their own jobs of taking care of elderly people that need help at home so they don't have to go into a nursing home.  

  If it gets bad enough the truckers hauling everything we eat, use & wear quit driving then we will be in deep doo-doo.   I know quite a few long-haul truckers are saying this is about to happen as the word is getting out at truck stops.


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## Tom 86 (Oct 3, 2021)

HoneyNut said:


> Wow it is too bad when congresspeople promote mis-information.  It's like we can't trust politicians ;-)
> The stats for my state of Nebraska from their website says this year 32 vaccinated people died of covid and 775 not vaccinated people died of covid.  I work that out as 4% of Nebraska deaths were in vaccinated people.


I saw a good cartoon on F.B. I should have snagged.  It was about what you're talking about.  How politicians are lying to us about the ones dying that are vaccinated.  

Our State has been caught counting people dying from old age & flu & put in the untaxed people dying to scare everyone.


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## HoneyNut (Oct 3, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> It was about what you're talking about. How politicians are lying to us about the ones dying that are vaccinated.


Oh I think you misunderstood, the politician with questionable stats was the one saying 63% of deaths were vaccinated people.  My state is super ridiculously conservative so for them to say only 4% of deaths were vaccinated people if anything would be overstating the 4%.


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## Becky1951 (Oct 3, 2021)

Tom 86 said:


> What's bad I remember as a kid getting the polio sugar cube at the fairgrounds.  We went because we WANTED to go to not get polio.  Same with the smallpox round shot in the arm.
> 
> Now our fearless dictator has "mandated" that everyone working in a hospital, Dr's office & any company with over 100 people all have to go get vaccinated.  Not the person's choice.
> 
> ...


I know the truckers are involved in "The slow roll" movement as a protest and have been involved in some large protests against the vaccine mandate yet the news has failed to cover or made public those events. Also BLM is protesting, yet the news has kept it quiet. 

The word is out on several truckers forums and groups also. *Freedom of Choice *movements are starting everywhere.


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## chic (Oct 3, 2021)

Becky1951 said:


> Here is link to video where he states the above information squatting dog posted.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443777704994672644


There is the problem with ADE - Antibody Dependent Enhancement. It causes your own immune system to stop working thus acquiring the need for boosters constantly, but I'm digressing.


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## Sunny (Oct 4, 2021)

Freedom of choice does not mean the freedom to walk around in public, spreading a horrifying and often fatal illness to other people. Your freedom ends where the next guy's foot begins.


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## John cycling (Oct 4, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Freedom of choice does not mean the freedom to walk around in public, spreading a horrifying and often fatal illness to other people. Your freedom ends where the next guy's foot begins.



Exactly, so if you're been shot full of the toxic poisonous petro-chemical concoctions, then stay home and stay off the internet!


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## squatting dog (Oct 4, 2021)

Sunny said:


> Freedom of choice does not mean the freedom to walk around in public, spreading a horrifying and often fatal illness to other people. Your freedom ends where the next guy's foot begins.


And where does that leave the vaccinated people who can still spread the illness as stated by CDC Director Rochelle Walensky???


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## win231 (Oct 4, 2021)

squatting dog said:


> And where does that leave the vaccinated people who can still spread the illness as stated by CDC Director Rochelle Walensky???


It leaves the vaccinated people still desperately playing the blame game.
Example:  Post #37.


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## Irwin (Oct 4, 2021)

Here's a fact check of Ron Johnson's claim that "Data from England show 63% of Delta deaths in last 7.5 months were fully vaxxed."
https://www.reuters.com/article/fac...-are-unvaccinated-is-misleading-idUSL2N2OD2CJ

In England, 85% of the population has received at least one dose of the vaccine, so it's inevitable that a greater percentage of vaccinated people will die. But the actual number of people who have died from covid-19 are small because the vaccine is highly effective in preventing serious illness and death. In fact, only 26 inoculated people in England died from Feb. 1 to July 1 (according to the Reuters article).


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