# Are you frugal or high maintenance ??



## KingsX (Jan 6, 2018)

.

I am frugal by nature. It tends to run in my family.  From my point of view, living below my means and saving money is not just rewarding,  it's fun.

A friend of mine is high maintenance.   It took a while for me to understand why my frugal advice to her kept falling on deaf ears as she keeps lavishly spending money to her peril.   Today, she is deep in debt and bankrupt.  Her solution for her post-bankruptcy future is to try to increase her income [instead of decreasing her outgo.]   

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around these two totally different financial natures. 

 If anyone has insights, lessons and/or experiences regarding this financial dichotomy, please post them here.


----------



## moviequeen1 (Jan 6, 2018)

Hi Kingsx,I started over 40 yrs ago keeping a monthly journal of everything I spend,so I have a good idea where the money goes. It has worked for me,its part of my monthly routine,no plans to change. Sue


----------



## C'est Moi (Jan 6, 2018)

I don't believe I'm either frugal or high maintenance.   I like to think that I'm a good money manager, but not necessarily "frugal."   We have a comfortable retirement without having to make any sacrifices, but as we get older we don't seem to want for much.


----------



## KingsX (Jan 6, 2018)

moviequeen1 said:


> Hi Kingsx,I started over 40 yrs ago keeping a monthly journal of everything I spend,so I have a good idea where the money goes. It has worked for me,its part of my monthly routine,no plans to change. Sue




Me too!

I buy a cheap yearly daily planner at the dollar store.  I record every purchase I make for that specific day.

Not only does it monitor/moderate my spending, it is also a good resource record to refer back to if necessary. Like when there is a purchase on my credit card that I don't remember.   

Which brings me to a related topic. I use my rewards credit card for almost every purchase... then pay if off at the end of each month. so there is no interest charge.  The end result is... the cc company pays me to use their credit card.  When I try to explain this to my high maintenance friend,  she seems to not get it.  Meanwhile,  she can't wait to get her credit cards back after bankruptcy.


----------



## KingsX (Jan 6, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> I don't believe I'm either frugal or high maintenance.   I like to think that I'm a good money manager, but not necessarily "frugal."   We have a comfortable retirement without having to make any sacrifices, but as we get older we don't seem to want for much.




Being frugal is not just a lifestyle, it's a mentality.  Those who are frugal by nature [as opposed to those who are forced to cut back on spending] enjoy the frugal lifestyle and don't regard it as a sacrifice.

.


----------



## C'est Moi (Jan 6, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Being frugal is not just a lifestyle, it's a mentality.  Those who are frugal by nature [as opposed to those who are forced to cut back on spending] enjoy the frugal lifestyle and don't regard it as a sacrifice.
> 
> .



Fair enough, but I was not equating frugality to sacrifice.   I was simply stating our experience; we have not had to make any lifestyle changes in retirement.  Things have pretty much continued as before.   We have never been high maintenance people but I don't consider us frugal, either.


----------



## Knight (Jan 6, 2018)

Really early in our marriage money management wasn't something well understood. We didn't know we were poor simply because scraping together 50 cents to go see an all night drive in movie wasn't a big deal. It's when buying a new 1963 chevy super sport left us with out being able to scrape that 50 cents together we knew we had to do differently.  We had to decide between NEED and WANT. Need was the basis for buying. Easy when a series of low paying jobs with no benefits and only one of us working. But we stuck to our plan. Later when things began to fall our way frugal along with investing began building what we envisioned. Actually my wife envisioned I was shaky on the idea of walking away from  a steady paycheck. But as always she was right and instead of early at 55 early retirement came at 54. 

Since age 54 other series of fortunate events fell into place. As it stands now and has been for a few years after retiring frugal as a way of life is not in our vocabulary. My wife doesn't ask if she wants something she just buys whatever it is.


----------



## Ruth n Jersey (Jan 6, 2018)

I am very frugal but we do save a bit for fun now and then. Usually that is when we travel to see my daughter and family. I take advantage of coupons but only for items we really need. Once in a great while we will go for seniors night at a local restaurant but 99 percent of the time we eat at home. Never,ever  go out for coffee. Hang washed clothes in our basement or outside, Keep the heat pretty low which is how I like it anyway. Neither the hubby nor I need new clothes, comfortable sweats do the job and I can't think of one item I would like to have at this point. My last impulse buy was to get my sewing machine last year that I intend to make good use of and even that was greatly reduced or I would have walked right by it. Today was a good example of me being frugal. It gave me something to do and saved a few cents making gift cards from my Christmas cards for next year.


----------



## mathjak107 (Jan 6, 2018)

i can't say i am frugal at all . i mean i don't spend more for something than i have to , but  i certainly enjoy buying and doing the things we want .

i learned early on as a kid , that while a penny saved is a penny earned , it will always stay a penny without great compounding. . so rather than find ways of dealing with the pennies i spent my time learning how to compound  better whatever i could save .   to this day i spend my time concentrated on the income generation side and  much prefer that to dealing with the pennies .


----------



## KingsX (Jan 6, 2018)

.

A penny saved is more than a penny earned... if the penny earned is taxed.


----------



## mathjak107 (Jan 6, 2018)

a penny saved , is less than a penny earned . inflation will see to that and that includes any tax saved .. without compounding that penny it will no longer even buy a pennies worth of stuff .


----------



## KingsX (Jan 6, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> a penny saved , is less than a penny earned . inflation will see to that and that includes any tax saved .. without compounding that penny it will no longer even buy a pennies worth of stuff .





Who was it who called compound interest the eighth wonder of the world ??

My pennies saved are busy at work compounding interest.  

Reminds me of these famous quotes from the classic money book, "The Richest Man in Babylon."

" Every gold piece you save is a slave to work for you.  Every copper it earns is its child that also can earn for you.  If you would become wealthy, then what you save must earn, and its children must earn, and it's children's children must earn, that all may help to give to you the abundance you crave. "

" You do eat the children of your savings. Then how do you expect them to work for you? And how can they have children that will also work for you?  First get thee an army of golden slaves and then many a rich banquet may you enjoy without regret. "

" A man's wealth is not in the coins he carries in his purse; it is the income he buildeth, the golden stream that continually floweth into his purse and keepeth it always bulging. "


----------



## KingsX (Jan 6, 2018)

Ruth n Jersey said:


> I am very frugal but we do save a bit for fun now and then. Usually that is when we travel to see my daughter and family. I take advantage of coupons but only for items we really need. Once in a great while we will go for seniors night at a local restaurant but 99 percent of the time we eat at home. Never,ever  go out for coffee. Hang washed clothes in our basement or outside, Keep the heat pretty low which is how I like it anyway. Neither the hubby nor I need new clothes, comfortable sweats do the job and I can't think of one item I would like to have at this point. My last impulse buy was to get my sewing machine last year that I intend to make good use of and even that was greatly reduced or I would have walked right by it. Today was a good example of me being frugal. It gave me something to do and saved a few cents making gift cards from my Christmas cards for next year. View attachment 46970View attachment 46971




That's a great idea,  gift card holders from Christmas cards.  

Mindlessly spending money is easy... too easy.

Being frugal keeps your mind alert and engaged.


----------



## SeaBreeze (Jan 6, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> I don't believe I'm either frugal or high maintenance.   I like to think that I'm a good money manager, but not necessarily "frugal."   We have a comfortable retirement without having to make any sacrifices, but as we get older we don't seem to want for much.



Same here, neither of us were ever 'high maintenance', but not really frugal either.  We didn't buy things we could not afford, and when we put anything on a credit card we pay it off in full (cash back rewards).  Never been in debt or had to claim bankruptcy, always paid our bills on time and saved during our working years (working overtime when possible) for an early retirement, which we are enjoying now. 

 We really haven't made any lifestyle changes since retiring,  and if we want to go somewhere on vacation or buy a big ticket item, we can.  As a child I was taught to respect the value of a dollar and I thank my parents for that, we didn't have that much money, but never wanted for any needs.  I still use coupons, etc. to save when possible.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Jan 6, 2018)

I'm frugal, being frugal was a big help to me in freeing up the money to save for my retirement.

IMO developing frugal/thrifty/spending habits is one side of the coin and earning/saving/investing is the other side of the coin.

It's not about scrimping or being miserly it's about making choices and focusing on the things that are important to you.

I've reached the saturation point in my life.  I really don't need or want any additional _*stuff*_.  

My focus is on my day to day comfort and future security which fortunately doesn't cost very much.

These threads interest me because we all seem to use slightly different approaches to reach similar goals.


----------



## KingsX (Jan 6, 2018)

Aunt Bea said:


> I'm frugal, being frugal was a big help to me in freeing up the money to save for my retirement.
> 
> IMO developing frugal/thrifty/spending habits is one side of the coin and earning/saving/investing is the other side of the coin.
> 
> ...





I totally agree.  

I have saved money all my life and still have much more "stuff" than I need and a big house to put it in.

Being frugal enabled me to get to my current happy place = peace of mind and retired comfort.


----------



## Buckeye (Jan 6, 2018)

Frugal or High Maintenance?  I am neither, and I know folks who are both. They are not mutually exclusive nor the only two options.


----------



## jujube (Jan 6, 2018)

Frugal here.  Not cheap.  I save on what I _need_ to save on so that I can spend on what I _want_ to spend on.


----------



## KingsX (Jan 6, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> Frugal or High Maintenance?  I am neither, and *I know folks who are both*. They are not mutually exclusive nor the only two options.




That sounds interesting... can you give more details.

.


----------



## Buckeye (Jan 6, 2018)

KingsX said:


> That sounds interesting... can you give more details.
> 
> .


  lol - Would you like her name and phone number?


----------



## KingsX (Jan 6, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> lol - Would you like her name and phone number?




I'm curious how you define someone as both frugal and high maintenance.

.


----------



## nvtribefan (Jan 6, 2018)

Neither.  But I don't think one has anything to do with the other.


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jan 7, 2018)

I'm frugal but I like nice things. I have learned how to find nice things for less money.


----------



## mathjak107 (Jan 7, 2018)

another important factor is that cost cutting only seems like increasing income , until it doesn't .

cost cutting has a bottom and once hit and expenses keep rising you learn the difference between the two .

increasing income by growing your money has no limits  so once cost cutting hits bottom the increases in income take over .

that is why wall street reports both revenue and profits . profits can come from cost cutting and that can have very limited growth


----------



## Buckeye (Jan 7, 2018)

KingsX said:


> I'm curious how you define someone as both frugal and high maintenance..



How do you define "high maintenance"?  To me, it is not the opposite of frugal. 

Also, these threads are really just an excuse for a series of humble brags.


----------



## mathjak107 (Jan 7, 2018)

i agree , high maintenance and frugal have nothing to do with each other .

my wife will tell you i am high maintenance . look up needy , i bet my picture comes up .

but she knew that up front . i gave her the copy of the manual my mom wrote .  "THE PROPER CARE & FEEDING OF MATHJAK "    lol


----------



## nvtribefan (Jan 7, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> How do you define "high maintenance"?  To me, it is not the opposite of frugal.
> 
> Also, these threads are really just an excuse for a series of humble brags.



You got it!


----------



## retiredtraveler (Jan 7, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Being frugal is not just a lifestyle, it's a mentality.  Those who are frugal by nature [as opposed to those who are forced to cut back on spending] enjoy the frugal lifestyle and don't regard it as a sacrifice. .



That would describe DW and myself. Our parents grew up fairly poor and became middle class (yes, there used to be a middle class) through education, work, and frugality. Those lessons were passed on. I've always thought the difference between frugal people and those who live beyond their means was due to envy, or lack thereof. We're the people who go into a very nice house, or a very nice car, and say, 'that's nice --- it would be nice to have such things'. But, we don't 'internalize' the fact someone else has nice shiny objects, and we are not concerned with trying to get them. There are, apparently, many people who have to have expensive things to be happy, or to show others to make themselves feel good. 
   There is a term in psychology called 'deferred gratification'. Those of us who think long term and accept a frugal lifestyle to reach long term goals, have that in spades. Other people do not.


----------



## jujube (Jan 7, 2018)

KingsX said:


> I'm curious how you define someone as both frugal and high maintenance.
> 
> .



Well, there's always "frugal when *I'm* paying and high maintenance when *someone else* is paying".....


----------



## KingsX (Jan 7, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> How do you define "high maintenance"?  To me, it is not the opposite of frugal.
> 
> Also, these threads are really just an excuse for a series of humble brags.





Another term for "high maintenance" might be "living large"... someone who lives a self-indulgent,  extravagant and often wasteful lifestyle and requires an ever higher income to support that lifestyle.

My topic post included an example of a friend who tries to live a  high maintenance champagne taste lifestyle... but has never earned more than a beer budget.  She repeatedly ignored my frugal advice through the years and continued her living large behavior into retirement. She quickly spent her small nest egg and is now bankrupt. 

During our working years,  my friend earned more than I.    She spent while I saved.  Thanks to God and my frugal mentality,  during my  retirement my nest egg has greatly increased.  

 Ironically,   her yearly income [SS plus a small pension] which she is unable to live on... is still more income than my yearly income [SS plus investments] that I choose to take per year and still live comfortably.

That is not bragging... that is a "THANK GOD" moment... "except by the grace of God, there go I."


----------



## KingsX (Jan 7, 2018)

.


I started this topic not to try to convince anyone one way or the other... but to understand the difference in mentality. 

Through the years,  I didn't understand why my friend ignored by sensible frugal advice and like some posters here, she was even  hostile at my frugal advice.

While she was in her rapid downward economic spiral...  she kept paying out money she did not have for expensive things she didn't need.  

One time when I was advising her not to keep paying a certain  unnecessary monthly expense,  she became hostile and said:   "If I lived like you,  I wouldn't be where I am."   I'm not sure exactly what SHE meant by that statement... but ironically, form my perspective,  it is so true !!


----------



## mathjak107 (Jan 7, 2018)

KingsX said:


> Who was it who called compound interest the eighth wonder of the world ??
> 
> My pennies saved are busy at work compounding interest.
> 
> ...


the problem is those pennies have to compound greater than inflation and taxes or you lost your pennies


----------



## C'est Moi (Jan 7, 2018)

Hoot N Annie said:


> How do you define "high maintenance"?  To me, it is not the opposite of frugal.
> 
> Also, *these threads are really just an excuse for a series of humble brags.*



Seems to be the case with a lot of threads, and some are not so humble.       Oh, the humanity.


----------



## C'est Moi (Jan 7, 2018)

KingsX said:


> .
> 
> 
> I started this topic not to try to convince anyone one way or the other... but to understand the difference in mentality.
> ...




I don't worry about my "friends" and how they choose to manage their money.  As long as she is not asking you for anything, does it matter?    

We each do what works for us.


----------



## KingsX (Jan 7, 2018)

retiredtraveler said:


> That would describe DW and myself. Our parents grew up fairly poor and became middle class (yes, there used to be a middle class) through education, work, and frugality. Those lessons were passed on. I've always thought the difference between frugal people and those who live beyond their means was due to envy, or lack thereof. We're the people who go into a very nice house, or a very nice car, and say, 'that's nice --- it would be nice to have such things'. But, we don't 'internalize' the fact someone else has nice shiny objects, and we are not concerned with trying to get them. There are, apparently, many people who have to have expensive things to be happy, or to show others to make themselves feel good.
> There is a term in psychology called 'deferred gratification'. Those of us who think long term and accept a frugal lifestyle to reach long term goals, have that in spades. Other people do not.




Great assessment and commentary !

Frugal people are long range planners.

Frugal people do not spend money to impress others... they are not "keep up with the Jones" types.

I was reading an article yesterday how so many people now are "upside down" financially  in their cars...
owing more than the car is worth and unable to trade their car in for a newer model and that is affecting
car sales.  Apparently,  the car industry relies on customers who keep buying a new car every couple of years.
I have never been part of that car mania.    I buy a new sensible car, drive it for well over a decade,  enjoying 
years of no car payments... then I buy another new sensible car and drive it for over a decade.  Today,  I am 
driving my wonderful 13 year old 2004 Honda.


----------



## mathjak107 (Jan 7, 2018)

frugal has nothing to do with being a long range planner .  in fact i would say many  of those in forums i frequent  are the opposite . they cherish all those pennies they save so much they are afraid of investing them and they never compound well . many complain now how little they ended up having .

so planning and frugal are not related .


----------



## KingsX (Jan 7, 2018)

C'est Moi said:


> I don't worry about my "friends" and how they choose to manage their money.  As long as she is not asking you for anything, does it matter?
> 
> We each do what works for us.





My friend told me she had contemplated suicide because of  her recent dire financial situation.


----------



## nvtribefan (Jan 7, 2018)

KingsX said:


> My friend told me she had contemplated suicide because of  her recent dire financial situation.



Well, you can continue to browbeat her for not taking your instruction all these years. Do you think that will help your friend?.


----------



## retiredtraveler (Jan 7, 2018)

mathjak107 said:


> frugal has nothing to do with being a long range planner .  in fact i would say many  of those in forums i frequent  are the opposite . they cherish all those pennies they save so much they are afraid of investing them and they never compound well . many complain now how little they ended up having .
> 
> so planning and frugal are not related .



Have to disagree with you on this. It seems, tell me if I'm wrong, that you're equating the reluctance to invest with not planning long term. I can't see that. The whole subject of investing, or lack thereof, to me, has more to do with financial ignorance than long term planning. People who save money and put it under the mattress_ are_ doing long term planning. They just don't trust banks or stock market or have no financial accumen.   But, they're thinking long-term.
   There are other areas where some of us plan long term. Health care (as in proper diet and working out), for one.


----------



## mathjak107 (Jan 7, 2018)

planning for a retirement and having it well funded has a whole lot to do with long term planning  , both investing wise and tax planning wise , all which need to be started as young as possible .


----------



## KingsX (Jan 7, 2018)

nvtribefan said:


> Well, you can continue to browbeat her for not taking your instruction all these years. Do you think that will help your friend?.




Why do you assume I "browbeat" her ?? 

Because you personally disagree with being frugal ??

The hostility expressed here is interesting.


----------



## Lethe200 (Jan 11, 2018)

We live mostly on our pensions; also take a very modest amount (3.5%) from the investment accounts. I'll be taking SocSec this year; my DH will take it in another year or so. Not quite sure what "high maintenance" means, but we're certainly not frugal. Never have been and probably never will be, LOL! If it's there in the bank account, we spend it. 

We did, however, become interested in financial planning in our late 40's and fortunately I ended up with a job in financial services. Taught me a lot. Although there was a period where we struggled quite a bit, we caught some luck and have managed a very comfortable lifestyle in retirement.

However, I would like to say that for us and the people we know, it was planning that made the big difference. DH and I actually made less $$$$ than almost all our family and friends (I'll exclude the sub-group of friends who made millions from tech). We were certainly much less frugal than they were, too.

But we planned - seriously planned; working on various risk scenarios, deciding on the best compromises on big purchases/projects/job changes, spent on items others thought were unnecessary (like long term care policies). 

I actually do enjoy the financial world, although I gave up balancing my checkbook decades ago (thank all the heavens for electronic banking, LOL) as well as investing. After doing a very good job for 30 yrs I was happy to hand our account over to the excellent independent CFP firm we picked for my MIL's investment accounts. Last year the family accounts were merged together when my DH inherited her assets.

2018 my goal is to update our trust. I've been putting it off for ages, and it really needs to be changed. One of the heirs doesn't need anything from us any longer, so we can leave it all to the other heir - well, assuming we don't live too long and there's something left!


----------



## OneEyedDiva (Jan 19, 2018)

jujube said:


> Well, there's always "frugal when *I'm* paying and high maintenance when *someone else* is paying".....


Jujube...you're only high maintenance if you're making that "someone else" pay a *lot.*  LOL


----------



## Getyoung (Jan 20, 2018)

I probably err on the side of being a little frugal. The interesting thing is that very early on, when I was in my late teens my Dad explained compounding interest to me, with the "beautiful" rule of 72. I started investing very early, a few bucks every month, boy did that ever work out. For quite a few years we have been able to buy or do anything we really want, but I still hate paying more for something than I have to. I look for deals and I love haggling, etc, so we usually don't spend more than we have to. I have instilled the investing with my daughters, so hopefully they will be in a great position as well. With the insidious way that inflation creeps up, investing in the market is a way to keep ahead of it.


----------



## Bullie76 (Jan 21, 2018)

I was fairly frugal during my working days. Not a money mizer, but careful how I spent my dollars. And during my first 7 years of retirement I was the same. But over the last 3 years I have loosen the strings a bit. Just ordered a 55" 4k tv for my living room for example. Didn't have to have it, but I wanted it. Of course I didn't buy one of $2k jobs, more like $500.


----------



## NancyNGA (Jan 21, 2018)

I always thought "high maintenance" meant difficult and expensive to please, pertaining to a relationship.  I'm low maintenance, been told so even, in a joking manner.  Also very frugal, but I'm trying to learn to get out of that habit a bit. It's a hard habit to break.


----------



## mathjak107 (Jan 22, 2018)

where does just plain needy fit in ?   ha ha ha . my wife says if you google needy my picture comes up


----------



## Mizzkitt (Jan 22, 2018)

I spend if I need something or just plain want something if and only if I have the money, no credit for me. I have a relative that is so stingy she could give Scrooge lessons.

I have come to the conclusion that one type will never understand the other.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Jan 22, 2018)

Mizzkitt said:


> I spend if I need something or just plain want something if and only if I have the money, no credit for me. I have a relative that is so stingy she could give Scrooge lessons.
> 
> *I have come to the conclusion that one type will never understand the other.*



Amen to that!!!


----------



## Wren (Jan 22, 2018)

I am careful with spending, as I know how we can be ‘ripped off’, but not to the point of being penny pinching, my motto is 
‘I’m not mean but I’m not stupid’....


----------

