# Any musicians on the forum?



## Paco Dennis

I have play guitar for 55 years.


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## tbeltrans

I play guitar and piano.  There is a broad range of styles in the area of guitar.  My interests tend toward acoustic fingerstyle i a style known as "chord melody".  On piano that would be called "cocktail piano".  I have never really understood why the difference in terms other than the word "piano".  I have never been inclined to sing and never developed much taste for electric guitar, especially when cranked up and distorted.  Anyway, that is my take in a nutshell.

55 years is a long to be doing something.  You must be really, really good by now.   

Tony


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## Packerjohn

I'm not really a musician but for the last 15 years I have been chording my Epiphone left handed guitar and singing.  I do 4 songs twice over each morning from a collection of just over 1,070 songs.  Love to sing those old songs, mostly but not only country songs.  Apparently, playing and singing is really great for keeping me away from dementia and Alzheimer's.  So far so good!  Touch wood!


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## Irwin

I play guitar—primarily electric blues and classic rock. I used to play in an acoustic song circle but it's been six or seven years. I guess these days I prefer electric because I can plug directly into my audio interface into the computer and jam with headphones without making much noise.


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## tbeltrans

Music is a GREAT pastime, especially in retirement.  I have read on a number of occasions that learning something new, especially a new language, chess, various puzzle solving ideas, and learning/playing a musical instrument are supposed to help stave off dementia or at least aid in the use of one's aging mind.

Also, the hobby can be as inexpensive (or expensive) as you want it to be.  Beyond the initial purchase of the instrument, it is your choice as to whether to teach yourself or take lessons, buy music to learn, etc.

Unlike physical sports (though playing an instrument is considered a physical activity to a lesser extent), you can continue for as long as your body continues to function well enough.  Segovia played concerts well into his 90s.

Tony


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## HazyDavey

I started playing guitar back when I was in High School. I'd practice at my house then go out on weekends and jam with other local musicians. Then later I started playing in bands and doing gigs. Just local stuff, nothing fancy but I was having a ball.

And that's what I did till 2010 when I decided to make a switch from playing out and about. I did some research and we put together a little modest recording studio. Then we started writing and posting our own songs on SoundCloud. That worked out great and put a whole new twist for us playing music. Right now though we're in limbo cause of the corona bug..

I'll put our band link below if you're curious. They're just some homemade tunes we wrote and recorded while learning how to do it all on the fly..  

Go to our web page, here


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## Paco Dennis

tbeltrans said:


> I play guitar and piano.  There is a broad range of styles in the area of guitar.  My interests tend toward acoustic fingerstyle i a style known as "chord melody".  On piano that would be called "cocktail piano".  I have never really understood why the difference in terms other than the word "piano".  I have never been inclined to sing and never developed much taste for electric guitar, especially when cranked up and distorted.  Anyway, that is my take in a nutshell.
> 
> 55 years is a long to be doing something.  You must be really, really good by now.
> 
> Tony


I absolutely love chord melody on the guitar....you can play melody and Chord changes with being very inventive. You made a great choice going down that road. I played in groups always...so it was either rhythm or lead. I have to admit that I have pushed the distortion button for many years. 

  Well, my parents got me my first acoustic when I was 13. I was so excited that I open tuned it to a major chord and played "Louie Louie" for days until my fingers hurt so bad I HAD to stop.


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## SetWave

My dad was a musician and started me learning on his knee at the piano. Over time I wanted to go outside to be with my friends so when he set his alarm clock nearby and told me to practice until the minute hand reached a certain point I got creative and slowly moved the hand ahead. It was a great idea until he started waking up way too early. Busted.

I got tired of learning classical pieces and wanted to rock which was not allowed but it comes out now that I'm all grown up. Sadly, my keyboard will go away along with my drums and a couple of guitars. But, am taking one guitar as my friend's son plays. Yay!

Wanted to play drums as a teenager but that was also not allowed. A friend gave me his old guitar and I struggled figuring out what the heck to do with it. Picked up the harmonica and went to town playing blues with my friend.

Over the years I have slowly allowed myself to study guitar and finally know the extended minor blues scale in any key up and down the neck. Not a big accomplishment to most but a major deal for me.

Now, my wrist and shoulders hurt and I can only play for a short while.

The jerk owner thinks he can play bass guitar and invited a friend to come over to jam with me on drums. His friend and I were having a blast but it wasn't good enough for him and we slowly disbanded our group. As I said . . . jerk.


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## Paco Dennis

@Packerjohn    Fantastic, the connection we have with making music is always "therapeutic".  The harmonies and melodies come right into out bodies. For me it has been a friendship. 

@Irwin   Isn't playing music with a computer great. It created a whole new world for amateurs to share their creative spirits. I too have a small home studio. I started it in 1998 with midi guitar...then added live guitar and voice...then played lead on original backtracks.

@tbeltrans  You bet. Music keeps our brains and body functioning better. Really glad you have that pastime!

@HazyDavey   Listening now. I like!!!! It reminds me of Tom Petty stuff. I love the interjection of dialog in the songs especially the Cheech character (Andy). I had a lot of my music on sound click from 2004 to about 2019, then they deleted my stuff and went a different direction.
I tried to attach an mp3 song I played on, but don't know how to do it here.  I have something from Youtube. The band was called Pentazz. It was mainly a original fusion band...then we got a singer around the time MTV started. So we played a bunch of those and spiced it up with the fusion.  Here is part of the act.


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## Llynn

I played trumpet and cornet from my youth through my early 60's until arthritis would no longer let me play the  way I wanted to. Self taught on the guitar and used to sit in with bands when the opportunity presented itself. Had to quit for the same reason as cornet.   Man, I miss my music.


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## tbeltrans

HazyDavey said:


> I started playing guitar back when I was in High School. I'd practice at my house then go out on weekends and jam with other local musicians. Then later I started playing in bands and doing gigs. Just local stuff, nothing fancy but I was having a ball.
> 
> And that's what I did till 2010 when I decided to make a switch from playing out and about. I did some research and we put together a little modest recording studio. Then we started writing and posting our own songs on SoundCloud. That worked out great and put a whole new twist for us playing music. Right now though we're in limbo cause of the corona bug..
> 
> I'll put our band link below if you're curious. They're just some homemade tunes we wrote and recorded while learning how to do it all on the fly..
> 
> Go to our web page, here


Though not my style of music, I recognize when it is done well.  So...well done!

Tony


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## tbeltrans

Paco Dennis said:


> I absolutely love chord melody on the guitar....you can play melody and Chord changes with being very inventive. You made a great choice going down that road. I played in groups always...so it was either rhythm or lead. I have to admit that I have pushed the distortion button for many years.
> 
> Well, my parents got me my first acoustic when I was 13. I was so excited that I open tuned it to a major chord and played "Louie Louie" for days until my fingers hurt so bad I HAD to stop.


My parents resisted my interest in guitar.  When I was in 5th grade (the only grade school year I went to public school), my teacher offered to teach any of us guitar after class.  He said he would give the kid who improved the most, a guitar.  Instead, my parents had me play violin in the school orchestra.  I never had lessons for that or for playing trumpet in the high school marching band later on.  In both cases, I had to teach myself.

Both of these experiences turned out to be that proverbial "blessing in disguise" because for me, learning to play guitar was largely a matter of figuring out stuff off of recordings, as most of us did back in the 70s.  I learned a few basic chords to start with from some guys in the Army who played, but there was one guy in our barracks (state-side, before Vietnam) wh9o played solo instrumental guitar.  The guy was from Hawaii and had recently returned from Vietnam.  I clearly remember him playing a solo fingerstyle rendition of "Yesterday".  He had no interest in teaching me, but he did introduce me to how I wanted to play guitar.

Tony


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## NewRetire18

Another musician here! Good to see guitar is alive and well. 
A long long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away I was a professional union guitarist in the Los Angeles and Las Vegas circuits for years before going back to college for an Electronics Engineering degree. My new found career didn't include much music, so to keep in practice, I taught guitar on the side. One of my best students ended up working with his cousin who custom build guitars, and they informed me two months ago they were going to build me a custom, based upon my style preferences. I got the call last month that it is ready to ship to me, but I told them to hold off; in four days, I am driving to New Mexico to pick it up so I can thank them in person. I was pretty humbled, and honored by the gift. Meanwhile, I am building a recording studio, "RoseWood", next to the house I built up here last year. This is a fun project! Four years ago, when I retired, I knew no musicians in the area..that is changing quickly. I want to provide free recording services to people that can't otherwise afford the studio time in hopes it advances their love of music or career. I was taught guitar by some great teachers, and want to continue to pass the baton to others that have a strong desire to learn. I am lucky; I (finally) don't need money, so this is a way I can give back to my small community in a way that I really, really love.


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## Paco Dennis

WOW!.....I played with a band that toured in a band from Texas. We were a "show" group. The leader had been 2nd chair trumpet in Stan Kenton's Band. We did shows with a dancer/singer/flood lights/a few costume changes each of the 2 sets per night. I had a white tuxedo with New York spats and hat. Ha! We played around there and on the East Coast...Atlantic City's Playboy Club, etc.... Room and board and about $400 a week. I had some offers for studio work and some popular bands, but decided to quit the road and come home where my 2 kids were living. About 2 years before Sheryl Crow became famous I played in a four piece with her. A lot of Frats and Sororities...great $.  I gave Deke Dickerson a few lessons and he took off running and is still at it. Very unique and gifted guy. He has several songs on Youtube, just search his name to hear. I then moved into an intentional community and gave up the business end.

  Exciting about your personal custom...send us picture when you feel like it.   Great plan for your new studio, too.

  Would love hear any stuff you played on....  links?

I am going ask if there is a way to upload mp3 songs to this forum. It would be a fun addition.


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## Keesha

Musician here. I play the piano, alto and soprano saxophones and sing. ( alto - soprano )
I can sight read but prefer to play by ear. When I pick a song I like, the first thing I do is pick a key I prefer to play or sing in and write the main keys on paper. The entire song needn’t be there. This I find far more enjoyable than playing in a stage band. There’s a sense of simplicity and comfort that irreplaceable. Another thing I enjoy doing is creating background music for songs I enjoy.
My favourite type of music are ballads but in almost every type of genre. I like pop, rock, new country, classical, soft jazz, early folk etc
I play and sing for nursing homes during the warmer months.


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## Keesha

Packerjohn said:


> I'm not really a musician but for the last 15 years I have been chording my Epiphone left handed guitar and singing.  I do 4 songs twice over each morning from a collection of just over 1,070 songs.  Love to sing those old songs, mostly but not only country songs.  Apparently, playing and singing is really great for keeping me away from dementia and Alzheimer's.  So far so good!  Touch wood!


Oh YES you are a musician.


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## tbeltrans

Back around 1976-78, I played full time in a trio as a union sideman (AF of M).  We played a week at each gig which included Holiday Inn circuit, decent supper clubs, and resorts.  We played what was then called MOR (middle of the road) music and the Great American Songbook material.  Each of us did two things.  The drummer did vocals, the band leader played sax and one of those electronic keyboards (essentially bass when I took a solo), and I played guitar and a Crumar foot pedal bass.

Over time, I realized I really didn't like being on the road all the time and left the band.  I went through a variety of paths until I landed in college and got into engineering (considering other posts here, this is starting to sound familiar).

I also taught guitar on the side for a while.  My suspicion is that there are several of us who have travelled similar paths.

Tony


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## ohioboy

I play the Spoons, but only when I'm eating.


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## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> Musician here. I play the piano, alto and soprano saxophones and sing. ( alto - soprano )
> I can sight read but prefer to play by ear. When I pick a song I like, the first thing I do is pick a key I prefer to play or sing in and write the main keys on paper. The entire song needn’t be there. This I find far more enjoyable than playing in a stage band. There’s a sense of simplicity and comfort that irreplaceable. Another thing I enjoy doing is creating background music for songs I enjoy.
> My favourite type of music are ballads but in almost every type of genre. I like pop, rock, new country, classical, soft jazz, early folk etc
> I play and sing for nursing homes during the warmer months.


In my personal view, anybody who plays music is a musician.  I am glad I didn't stay with it as a career because I would probably be burned out on it by now and wouldn't enjoy playing anymore at all.  I know too many who have experienced this.

Tony


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## tbeltrans

ohioboy said:


> I play the Spoons, but only when I'm eating.


That can be amusing or annoying depending on whether those within earshot appreciate art.   

Tony


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## ohioboy

tbeltrans said:


> That can be amusing or annoying depending on whether those within earshot appreciate art.
> 
> Tony


The only note I play is a Hemidemisemiquaver.


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## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> In my personal view, anybody who plays music is a musician.  I am glad I didn't stay with it as a career because I would probably be burned out on it by now and wouldn't enjoy playing anymore at all.  I know too many who have experienced this.
> 
> Tony


Oh I got incredible joy playing in the senior and stage bands. For a while I played semi professionally and the gigs were really fun. Some of them I sang for. I’ve still got my microphone and amplifiers etc..

 Playing in a band with others had its rewards BUT until two years ago when I got my soprano sax, I hadn’t really considered compiling a booklet of my favourite songs I enjoy playing / singing and had no idea how much joy I’d get out of it. It took my music to an entirely new level that I couldn’t even imagine.


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## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> Oh I got incredible joy playing in the senior and stage bands. For a while I played semi professionally and the gigs were really fun. Some of them I sang for. I’ve still got my microphone and amplifiers etc..
> 
> Playing in a band with others had its rewards BUT until two years ago when I got my soprano sax, I hadn’t really considered compiling a booklet of my favourite songs I enjoy playing / singing and had no idea how much joy I’d get out of it. It took my music to an entirely new level that I couldn’t even imagine.


That is one of the greatest things about playing music - it is an endless and gratifying journey.  That is why, at least to me, it would be a real shame for it to become just a job.  That is what it was feeling like for me toward the end of my time on the road and I knew I wanted it to be more than that.

I met many people in the towns we played in who had regular jobs and lives, and played music for the love of it.  That is what I realized I wanted.  It seems to me that is also what you have.

Tony


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## tbeltrans

ohioboy said:


> The only note I play is a Hemidemisemiquaver.


Oh, that is when the needle playing the record album (remember those?) gets stuck.  

Tony


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## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> Back around 1976-78, I played full time in a trio as a union sideman (AF of M).  We played a week at each gig which included Holiday Inn circuit, decent supper clubs, and resorts.  We played what was then called MOR (middle of the road) music and the Great American Songbook material.  Each of us did two things.  The drummer did vocals, the band leader played sax and one of those electronic keyboards (essentially bass when I took a solo), and I played guitar and a Crumar foot pedal bass.
> 
> Over time, I realized I really didn't like being on the road all the time and left the band.  I went through a variety of paths until I landed in college and got into engineering (considering other posts here, this is starting to sound familiar).
> 
> I also taught guitar on the side for a while.  My suspicion is that there are several of us who have travelled similar paths.
> 
> Tony


(Disclaimer: Sorry, I wasn't told there would be no math...)

Not exactly sure why, but there does seem to be a strong correlation between music and engineering. Before my EE, I had been in college as a music major. I actually dropped out for nearly a decade to actually make money in the field I was studying in college. The music curriculum entailed a lot more rigor than I expected, or was prepared for. I found it to be highly mathematical by nature (think circle of fifths, chord structures and theory, etc.). Now I find interesting correlations in physical modelling tools in use by engineers and physicists. It gets more highly focused and constrained in audio engineering, with the use of filters like compression or others for tonal modification, even Fast Fourier Transforms (FFTs) in recording. The funny thing to me is that it is all coming back around in a circle. My music career led to an engineering career, and now the concepts of these math constructs in music is no longer mystifying like it was when I was 19. Maybe just mental maturation, but I don't think so; there really does seem to be similar thought process when designing a circuit or product, or walking into a lead guitar solo in a jazz song. Both events are highly creative, and satisfying mentally.


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## tbeltrans

NewRetire18 said:


> (Disclaimer: Sorry, I wasn't told there would be no math...)
> 
> Not exactly sure why, but there does seem to be a strong correlation between music and engineering. Before my EE, I had been in college as a music major. I actually dropped out for nearly a decade to actually make money in the field I was studying in college. The music curriculum entailed a lot more rigor than I expected, or was prepared for. I found it to be highly mathematical by nature (think circle of fifths, chord structures and theory, etc.). Now I find interesting correlations in physical modelling tools in use by engineers and physicists. It gets more highly focused and constrained in audio engineering, with the use of filters like compression or others for tonal modification, even Fast Fourier Transforms (FFTs) in recording. The funny thing to me is that it is all coming back around in a circle. My music career led to an engineering career, and now the concepts of these math constructs in music is no longer mystifying like it was when I was 19. Maybe just mental maturation, but I don't think so; there really does seem to be similar thought process when designing a circuit or product, or walking into a lead guitar solo in a jazz song. Both events are highly creative, and satisfying mentally.


That is one of the aspects of music that appeals to me.  It is so logical.  Here is a paper I wrote between finishing my BS and starting an MBA program:

https://www.akordi-online.com/sites/default/files/20970330-Chord-Melody-Guitar.pdf

pdfdirff.com/download/chord-melody-guitar.pdf


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/guitarlessons/comments/1i1d4b

https://www.cyberfret.com/classic/chord_mel.htm

There are other places it can be found, but these should be enough.

To me, diatonic music theory is very logical and one idea builds on the next:

1. The set of notes used in Western music (i.e. chromatic scale)
2. The template used to start on any one of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale to extract a major scale
(i.e. whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step)
3. All other scale types can be derived from the major scale (natural, melodic, and harmonic minor scales, pentatonic scale, etc.)
4. Spelling chords - templates for extracting chords (stacking thirds) from the major scale

Everything else comes from these 4 points.  Essentially that is the gist of my paper, and then all of that maps into the CAGED system on the guitar fretboard.

By the way, in my observation, music moves by fourths, which is backwards through the cycle of fifths.  It seems to me that the cycle of fifths is useful for keeping tracks of the sharps or flats in a key, though the typical useful chords in a key are adjacent, and the tritone sub is across the circle from any point in the circle.

Tony


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## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> That is one of the aspects of music that appeals to me.  It is so logical.  Here is a paper I wrote between finishing my BS and starting an MBA program:
> 
> https://www.akordi-online.com/sites/default/files/20970330-Chord-Melody-Guitar.pdf
> 
> pdfdirff.com/download/chord-melody-guitar.pdf
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/guitarlessons/comments/1i1d4b
> 
> https://www.cyberfret.com/classic/chord_mel.htm
> 
> There are other places it can be found, but these should be enough.
> 
> To me, diatonic music theory is very logical and one idea builds on the next:
> 
> 1. The set of notes used in Western music (i.e. chromatic scale)
> 2. The template used to start on any one of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale to extract a major scale
> (i.e. whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step)
> 3. All other scale types can be derived from the major scale (natural, melodic, and harmonic minor scales, pentatonic scale, etc.)
> 4. Spelling chords - templates for extracting chords (stacking thirds) from the major scale
> 
> Everything else comes from these 4 points.  Essentially that is the gist of my paper, and then all of that maps into the CAGED system on the guitar fretboard.
> 
> By the way, in my observation, music moves by fourths, which is backwards through the cycle of fifths.  It seems to me that the cycle of fifths is useful for keeping tracks of the sharps or flats in a key, though the typical useful chords in a key are adjacent, and the tritone sub is across the circle from any point in the circle.
> 
> Tony


Yep. But the beauty of it all really starts to mess with your head sometimes. In 2001, I was working with some physicists in a project, and one of them was from Turkey. When he found out about me and guitar, he invited me over to his house to play with him. Boy was I surprised when he pulled out a Saz. They are microtonal, with between 17 and 22 intervals in their neck scale. Trying to match a guitar to that is a chore!! Fun, though!


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## tbeltrans

NewRetire18 said:


> Yep. But the beauty of it all really starts to mess with your head sometimes. In 2001, I was working with some physicists in a project, and one of them was from Turkey. When he found out about me and guitar, he invited me over to his house to play with him. Boy was I surprised when he pulled out a Saz. They are microtonal, with between 17 and 22 intervals in their neck scale. Trying to match a guitar to that is a chore!! Fun, though!


Well, everything I posted is using the chromatic scale we use in Western music.  When discussing music, I always am quite clear about the boundaries of my part of the discussion, which I did in my previous post. So, Hopefully no mystery or confusion there.

Yes, different cultures can, and will, have very different musical references.  There have certainly been a number of Westerners who have experimented with microtonal music, but it has never been generally accepted by Western listeners, as beautiful as it might be.

The guitar fretboard, even with clearly marked frets, presents a never ending puzzle if one is willing to explore its depths.  A third dimension to the whole thing is retuning the guitar to various open and alternate tunings.  This has become quite popular in recent years, but has been around a long time, particularly with Hawaiian Slack Key guitar.

One unfortunate development in the acoustic guitar world (at least to me) is people slapping their guitars around more like a drum than a guitar.  That seems to go along with the two-handed tapping stuff.  I much prefer to always hear a clearly defined melody, but a lot of the tapping seems to lend itself more to a textural format.

Tony


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## NewRetire18

Thank you for all the great responses. I'll back off a little to let others have a say...I could talk all night about this.


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## tbeltrans

NewRetire18 said:


> Thank you for all the great responses. I'll back off a little to let others have a say...I could talk all night about this.


Great subject and no reason not to talk about it more often.  Maybe, with all the guitar players around here we could have a thread with that as its focus.

So, out of curiosity, did you pursue microtonal tuning any further than that one time?  I never got into it myself, but I know that a number of synthesizers provide that capability and it seems a natural for fretless string instruments such as violin, viola, cello, upright bass, fretless bass, etc., and possibly some of the brass instruments.  The main concern would be, as I mentioned in my prior post, that Western ears are not at all accustomed to that music.  But, then, 12 tone rows never really gained an audience either.   

Tony


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## ohioboy

Tony, what always amazes me is the great ability of the Classical Masters to sheet arrange music without the aids of today, recording devices etc. I don't think I could arrange music in a hundred years, too much for my mind.


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## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> Great subject and no reason not to talk about it more often.  Maybe, with all the guitar players around here we could have a thread with that as its focus.
> 
> So, out of curiosity, did you pursue microtonal tuning any further than that one time?  I never got into it myself, but I know that a number of synthesizers provide that capability and it seems a natural for fretless string instruments such as violin, viola, cello, upright bass, fretless bass, etc., and possibly some of the brass instruments.  The main concern would be, as I mentioned in my prior post, that Western ears are not at all accustomed to that music.  But, then, 12 tone rows never really gained an audience either.
> 
> Tony


No, but I seriously enjoyed learning about it. It broadened my view, and I ended up with a CD somewhere where a jazz group incorporated mictotonal instruments into an album. Beautiful sounds. The closest I ever came to exploring it was by playing a fretless electric bass. I ended up with a Jazzmaster fretted bass instead, but people who are good on bass (any kind, actually) are amazing. (Along with all other musicians/singers to me).


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## tbeltrans

ohioboy said:


> Tony, what always amazes me is the great ability of the Classical Masters to sheet arrange music without the aids of today, recording devices etc. I don't think I could arrange music in a hundred years, too much for my mind.


Agreed.  I have done arranging for solo fingerstyle guitar, but am not a composer.  I do it with guitar in hand and pencil and staff paper.  I am too lazy to write out TAB though.  It is pretty much standard notation for me.

However, I have moved away from arranging and also playing other people's arrangements.  My problem has always been a poor memory for that sort of thing.  In grade school, we had to memorize poems and famous speeches.  I never did well with that.  I am better at learning a vocabulary and using it.  That is a big reason why chord melody appeals to me.  It is in the moment.

I have a pile of Real Books and can just play from a lead sheet however I want to.  There is nothing to memorize and I can still enjoy playing.  If anything, my repertoire is limited by the hundreds of tunes in those fakebooks unless I want to pick up the melody and chords off a recording.

I was never a good sight reader beyond a lead sheet melody line.  To me sight reading is reading and playing in real time, like reading out loud to somebody.  I never cared enough to develop that skill.  I can read just fine, but it takes a several passes to work out fingerings and get the timing down.

Tony


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## tbeltrans

NewRetire18 said:


> No, but I seriously enjoyed learning about it. It broadened my view, and I ended up with a CD somewhere where a jazz group incorporated mictotonal instruments into an album. Beautiful sounds. The closest I ever came to exploring it was by playing a fretless electric bass. I ended up with a Jazzmaster fretted bass instead, but people who are good on bass (any kind, actually) are amazing. (Along with all other musicians/singers to me).


Anything to broaden one's view is certainly a good thing.   

There definitely are some great bass players, that's for sure.  I always liked Scott LaFaro with Bill Evans' trio.  There are many others, but the thing with that trio is that it is difficult to consider one musician apart from the others because they were so free yet tight knit.

Tony


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## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> Agreed.  I have done arranging for solo fingerstyle guitar, but am not a composer.  I do it with guitar in hand and pencil and staff paper.  I am too lazy to write out TAB though.  It is pretty much standard notation for me.
> 
> However, I have moved away from arranging and also playing other people's arrangements.  My problem has always been a poor memory for that sort of thing.  In grade school, we had to memorize poems and famous speeches.  I never did well with that.  I am better at learning a vocabulary and using it.  That is a big reason why chord melody appeals to me.  It is in the moment.
> 
> I have a pile of Real Books and can just play from a lead sheet however I want to.  There is nothing to memorize and I can still enjoy playing.  If anything, my repertoire is limited by the hundreds of tunes in those fakebooks unless I want to pick up the melody and chords off a recording.
> 
> I was never a good sight reader beyond a lead sheet melody line.  To me sight reading is reading and playing in real time, like reading out loud to somebody.  I never cared enough to develop that skill.  I can read just fine, but it takes a several passes to work out fingerings and get the timing down.
> 
> Tony





NewRetire18 said:


> No, but I seriously enjoyed learning about it. It broadened my view, and I ended up with a CD somewhere where a jazz group incorporated mictotonal instruments into an album. Beautiful sounds. The closest I ever came to exploring it was by playing a fretless electric bass. I ended up with a Jazzmaster fretted bass instead, but people who are good on bass (any kind, actually) are amazing. (Along with all other musicians/singers to me).


Funny thing here; I just started composing again. The secret for me was a program called MuseScore. It allows you to notate drums and a multitude of synthesized instruments in the score. Since I don't have any musicians to play with at the present time, I am going to be using it to write music fill for the instruments I want to accompany in some of my compositions. It's really interactive notation where you can assign a voice/register of an instrument to the notes. Drums, base, hammond B3/M3 organ, strings are all available. Worth learning, and fun!!


----------



## tbeltrans

NewRetire18 said:


> Funny thing here; I just started composing again. The secret for me was a program called MuseScore. It allows you to notate drums and a multitude of synthesized instruments in the score. Since I don't have any musicians to play with at the present time, I am going to be using it to write music fill for the instruments I want to accompany in some of my compositions. It's really interactive notation where you can assign a voice/register of an instrument to the notes. Drums, base, hammond B3/M3 organ, strings are all available. Worth learning, and fun!!


Yes, I have MuseScore.  It is a weird thing for me that my career was software engineering (the low level kernel and driver stuff, not writing programs), but when it comes to music, I am just more comfortable with pencil and paper and my guitar in hand.

My wife has the entire collection of West Wing on DVD.  In one of the "behind the scenes" extra features, the composer of the score talks about how he composes on the acoustic guitar and then scores it on the computer with his DAW and plugin VST synths.

I don't seem to have the mind for putting a whole bunch of instruments together.  I much prefer doing my music on just the guitar or piano.  But then that is also what I prefer to listen to.

Tony


----------



## NewRetire18

get it. Too many instruments are tough to balance, and can be distracting. I have a DAW, and once I found out that I could export a MuseScore mp3 as a track in my DAW, and could play/mix along with it live, it made the possibility of a home studio possible. I could see this on the horizon a couple years ago before I retired, and my basement at that house looked like this...


I should have known that this thing would expand. Fortunately, my wife loves music too, so I am finding support for this from her too!


----------



## OneEyedDiva

Even though I recorded and produced an album on my Clavinova (digital piano) years ago and finally released three new singles last summer, I consider myself a composer/arranger more so than a musician. My instrument allows me to "play" several instruments.  LOL  I need to practice my piano technique. I was more proficient on the organ, after taking lessons as an adult even though I started piano lessons as a child. I played for the church for a while but didn't like it, although as choir director, I changed that tired sounding choir to one that had the church rocking.

Now my BFF...*she's* a musician (pianist). She's played for several famous artists in the Pop/Rock, R & B and Jazz genres. She's toured with single artists and theater groups. And after impromptu invitations on separate occasions, she perfectly laid down electric piano tracks on two of my songs without ever hearing them before or having sheet music.


----------



## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> That is one of the greatest things about playing music - it is an endless and gratifying journey.  That is why, at least to me, it would be a real shame for it to become just a job.  That is what it was feeling like for me toward the end of my time on the road and I knew I wanted it to be more than that.
> 
> I met many people in the towns we played in who had regular jobs and lives, and played music for the love of it.  That is what I realized I wanted.  It seems to me that is also what you have.
> 
> Tony


YES! It’s an endless journey of learning and enjoying. There’s nothing quite like playing from sheer passion. It’s like a perfect way to express self without words. Nobody ‘has’ to like it since you are playing for you. Of course it’s nice to be complimented but that’s not the reason you play. 
Priceless!


----------



## Keesha

NewRetire18 said:


> get it. Too many instruments are tough to balance, and can be distracting. I have a DAW, and once I found out that I could export a MuseScore mp3 as a track in my DAW, and could play/mix along with it live, it made the possibility of a home studio possible. I could see this on the horizon a couple years ago before I retired, and my basement at that house looked like this...
> 
> View attachment 162734
> I should have known that this thing would expand. Fortunately, my wife loves music too, so I am finding support for this from her too!


Sweet. Nice selection of instruments. I’m messing around some with GarageBand but haven’t done much in the way of recording but would like to. That’s nice that your wife joins in with you. What a nice hobby to share.


----------



## Jules

Keesha said:


> Musician here.


That sure will be helpful with blending into your new home province.  Perhaps a kitchen party or two or more.


----------



## Paco Dennis

I think the best way to share your music is upload it to a music site and then just post the url where it is in your post. 

It took me about 5 minutes to sign up and upload a song at "Audiomack". Free and unlimited space.

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/13324942


----------



## Keesha

Jules said:


> That sure will be helpful with blending into your new home province.  Perhaps a kitchen party or two or more.


Well luckily these are my only listening neighbours and they don’t seem to mind. Lol
Nice deer!


----------



## HazyDavey

@Poco Dennis


Paco Dennis said:


> I think the best way to share your music is upload it to a music site and then just post the url where it is in your post.
> 
> It took me about 5 minutes to sign up and upload a song at "Audiomack". Free and unlimited space.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/13324942


Nice tune and good work on the recording. I also enjoyed watching your videos. Boy, we were all so much younger then. Thanks for your nice words and for posting your music. I didn't know about Audiomack, nice to know there's another free site out there. Thanks again, Davey..


----------



## Keesha

Paco Dennis said:


> I think the best way to share your music is upload it to a music site and then just post the url where it is in your post.
> 
> It took me about 5 minutes to sign up and upload a song at "Audiomack". Free and unlimited space.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/13324942


This is where I’m way behind. Even with having free software with using Apple technology, ( GarageBand)I still have been very slow to learn music sharing. While my music skills aren’t too shabby, my computer skills leave much to be desired.
Thanks for the free software link. One day maybe I’ll actually record something.
Nice music recording .


----------



## Shalimar

I play by ear, as did my Welsh. grandmother. I have her piano. I recall as a teen, I could sing her a song, twice, and she would play  it back to me, for some reason, she only used the black keys. This gave her music a haunting mournful quality. Since then, I have learned to play spoons, a small handsaw, just as she did, native flute, and some guitar.


During corona, many long nights have been made easier by the addition of jazz and blues melodies pulled out of my beloved piano. Singing also.


----------



## Packerjohn

tbeltrans said:


> Back around 1976-78, I played full time in a trio as a union sideman (AF of M).  We played a week at each gig which included Holiday Inn circuit, decent supper clubs, and resorts.  We played what was then called MOR (middle of the road) music and the Great American Songbook material.  Each of us did two things.  The drummer did vocals, the band leader played sax and one of those electronic keyboards (essentially bass when I took a solo), and I played guitar and a Crumar foot pedal bass.
> 
> Over time, I realized I really didn't like being on the road all the time and left the band.  I went through a variety of paths until I landed in college and got into engineering (considering other posts here, this is starting to sound familiar).
> 
> I also taught guitar on the side for a while.  My suspicion is that there are several of us who have travelled similar paths.
> 
> Tony


I have read many books on musicians over the years and have come to the conclusion that road life is far from glamorous.  It's hard work!  Another night another town, over and over and over.  Guess that is why some "stars" have set up in places like Las Vegas or Branson, Missouri; just to have some sort of more "normal" life.


----------



## tbeltrans

Packerjohn said:


> I have read many books on musicians over the years and have come to the conclusion that road life is far from glamorous.  It's hard work!  Another night another town, over and over and over.  Guess that is why some "stars" have set up in places like Las Vegas or Branson, Missouri; just to have some sort of more "normal" life.


We used to call those "sit down jobs", and they were the dream of many road musicians.  Other musicians retired from the road to become agents or union reps.  Every town had union reps who made sure you paid your work dues in to that local for working in their area, that all the musicians in the band had up to date union cards, but when it came time to help the musicians in situations such as getting stiffed by a club manager, the reps couldn't be bothered.

Tony


----------



## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> We used to call those "sit down jobs", and they were the dream of many road musicians.  Other musicians retired from the road to become agents or union reps.  Every town had union reps who made sure you paid your work dues in to that local for working in their area, that all the musicians in the band had up to date union cards, but when it came time to help the musicians in situations such as getting stiffed by a club manager, the reps couldn't be bothered.
> 
> Tony


Yes, life on the road was brutal a lot of the time. Lots of good and bad memories, though, and fortunately the good ones are the ones that stick the most, so I'm good with the past. Little things, like tricks the lead singers wife played on him by putting raw eggs into his motorcycle boots he needed to jump into during a quick costume change. He normally bolted out onto the stage, and slid to the mike; this time he sloshed...


----------



## Paco Dennis

In 1999 I was using windows 95. I bought a $100 midi guitar pickup that plugged into the printer port. I also used a hacked Yamaha 50-YXG software synthesizer. It had over 128 different instrument samples on it. I really like creating songs with that setup and made a whole bunch of them. Here is an example of what came out. 

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/charlene


----------



## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> In 1999 I was using windows 95. I bought a $100 midi guitar pickup that plugged into the printer port. I also used a hacked Yamaha 50-YXG software synthesizer. It had over 128 different instrument samples on it. I really like creating songs with that setup and made a whole bunch of them. Here is an example of what came out.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/charlene


Cool!!


----------



## Paco Dennis

ohioboy said:


> Tony, what always amazes me is the great ability of the Classical Masters to sheet arrange music without the aids of today, recording devices etc. I don't think I could arrange music in a hundred years, too much for my mind.


Couldn't have said it better.


----------



## drifter

Growing up I ran around with a bunch of musicians. I wanted to play badly but never learned to play an instrument.
Back then there were no amps. All the musicians would gather on someones front porch and would start tuning up
and before you knew it, ir was three or four a.m.

My brother was a musician, my son and grandson are musicians. I could never cut the mustard.


----------



## ohioboy

drifter said:


> My brother was a musician, my son and grandson are musicians. I could never cut the mustard.



Try Ketchup.


----------



## SetWave

NewRetire18 said:


> Not exactly sure why, but there does seem to be a strong correlation between music and engineering.


Music, mathematics and language all relate in our attempts to communicate.


----------



## Paco Dennis

Ditto to all the thoughts on "going on the road". It was WORK. 6 nights a week. Restaurant food. No new lasting friendships. Bed at 2am up at 10.
very long travel destinations ( through the night sometimes ). Then I started disliking the local gigs. Just a lot of hassle for barely any $. I stopped playing live in 1993. My other occupation was a cabinet maker/installer. Then I started housecleaning and did that for 25 years while living in an intentional community, where I still am. I haven't played the guitar for about a year now. "Dust in the Wind".


----------



## tbeltrans

Do you folks know what the difference between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist is?

I know we have both here in this thread, so here goes...

A jazz musician plays 10,000 chords for 3 people, while a rock guitarist plays 3 chords for 10,000 people.

Nobody said life is fair.   

Tony


----------



## OneEyedDiva

Paco Dennis said:


> I think the best way to share your music is upload it to a music site and then just post the url where it is in your post.
> 
> It took me about 5 minutes to sign up and upload a song at "Audiomack". Free and unlimited space.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/13324942


I really like your song Paco. I can imagine listening to this while relaxing and reminiscing.  I like the production. It sounds real good coming out of my speakers. I'd never heard of Audiomack before. I'm using SoundCloud. I wonder if one has advantages over the other.

@tbeltrans _"Do you folks know what the difference between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist is?" _And what ticks me off about that is that when some obscure rock musician dies, it makes the news. There have been some great Jazz performers who's passings did not make the news.

@Keesha  I'm doing a little something in Garage Band for a project with my son. He invested in the Logic digital studio. I had Logic years ago and finished producing some of my music in it (after transferring from my instrument). After a few years, the program crashed. Good thing I had "bounced" some of the songs into iTunes. My son was able to help me raise the volume of one using Audacity so I could release it. Another that I released was completely done in Logic using a Logic loop as it's foundation. Unfortunately, I lost several tracks even before the program completely crashed. My son is trying to get me to get Logic again. I told him I'm not willing. If I can't do the majority of what I want to do in Garage Band then have him import the tracks into Logic....so be it.  He was excited when he figured out how to get the Clavinova and Logic program "talking to each other".  I'm sure he'll be able to do the same with Logic and GB.

I'm not crazy about digital production although I know that's the way to go these days.  How do you feel about it?


----------



## tbeltrans

Paco Dennis said:


> In 1999 I was using windows 95. I bought a $100 midi guitar pickup that plugged into the printer port. I also used a hacked Yamaha 50-YXG software synthesizer. It had over 128 different instrument samples on it. I really like creating songs with that setup and made a whole bunch of them. Here is an example of what came out.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/charlene


I tried a couple of different midi guitars over the years.  I even had a Yamaha G10 for a while:

https://yamahablackboxes.com/collection/yamaha-g10-guitar/

I did some redesign to the front end to lower the potential for false triggers due to noise and for faster response times.

With all those midi guitars, the problem was always that you had to change your technique specifically for that instrument.  The last midi guitar I had was actually a Roland GK-3 to GR-55 and later got the older GR-33 because it was a bit faster/cleaner playing.

Also, back in the early days of midi and DOS, I wrote my own midi software and used it until Cakewalk came along and was mature enough.  I also built my own midi interface for my PC.  I did a lot of experimenting with midi guitar, synths, etc., for a while.  In hindsight, I feel as if I got off my own path during that time.

I did have some cool midi synths for a while - A Sequential Circuits Prophet VS, a Sequential Circuits 2002 sampler, a couple of Yamaha boxes, and a bunch of other stuff along the way.

Now, I have a Roland Virtual Grand digital piano, which is fully modelled (no sampling), a Roalnd FA-08 and a Roland FA-07 workstation(s), and an old Yamaha QX-5 hardware sequencer and a Yamaha QY-100 because nothing like that is made anymore.

Roland V-Grand: https://www.roland.com/us/products/v-piano_grand/

Roland FA-07/08: https://www.roland.com/us/products/fa_series/

Yamaha QX-5: https://www.polynominal.com/YAMAHA-Qx5/

Yamaha QY-100: https://www.yamaha.com/en/about/innovation/collection/detail/2091/

Tony


----------



## OneEyedDiva

This is my Yamaha Clavinova which has hundreds of instrument "voices" and rhythms. I record the music onto the floppy discs. My son, who is my studio engineer, transfers the music via cables into our home studio. We communicate back and forth until he's satisfied with the levels for each track. My album (2003) was produced completely on this instrument because I didn't know about digital programs back then. After I got Logic, I used a floppy disc drive to transfer songs into the program. @Pecos


----------



## Shalimar

drifter said:


> Growing up I ran around with a bunch of musicians. I wanted to play badly but never learned to play an instrument.
> Back then there were no amps. All the musicians would gather on someones front porch and would start tuning up
> and before you knew it, ir was three or four a.m.
> 
> My brother was a musician, my son and grandson are musicians. I could never cut the mustard.


But you touch people’s hearts with your words.


----------



## tbeltrans

OneEyedDiva said:


> I really like your song Paco. I can imagine listening to this while relaxing and reminiscing.  I like the production. It sounds real good coming out of my speakers. I'd never heard of Audiomack before. I'm using SoundCloud. I wonder if one has advantages over the other.
> 
> *@tbeltrans "Do you folks know what the difference between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist is?" And what ticks me off about that is that when some obscure rock musician dies, it makes the news. There have been some great Jazz performers who's passings did not make the news.*
> 
> @Keesha  I'm doing a little something in Garage Band for a project with my son. He invested in the Logic digital studio. I had Logic years ago and finished producing some of my music in it (after transferring from my instrument). After a few years, the program crashed. Good thing I had "bounced" some of the songs into iTunes. My son was able to help me raise the volume of one using Audacity so I could release it. Another that I released was completely done in Logic using a Logic loop as it's foundation. Unfortunately, I lost several tracks even before the program completely crashed. My son is trying to get me to get Logic again. I told him I'm not willing. If I can't do the majority of what I want to do in Garage Band then have him import the tracks into Logic....so be it.  He was excited when he figured out how to get the Clavinova and Logic program "talking to each other".  I'm sure he'll be able to do the same with Logic and GB.
> 
> *I'm not crazy about digital production although I know that's the way to go these days.  How do you feel about it?*


Unfortunately, it is a popularity contest.  There are good rock musicians, but there is a lot of nonsense too.  Any time I mention any of the jazz musicians I listen to, all I get are blank stares.  

One problem is exposure to the music.  When we were growing up, there was mainstream radio and what we heard was what we knew.  Most of the time, we listened to AM radio.  At least in our area, jazz and classical music were the domain of FM radio for a long time.  Most of the kids I knew did bother with that.  Later, when Top 40 and country became available on FM, that attracted us kids.

I really wasn't exposed to jazz until later when I got into the band.  I have to admit to being the typical suburban kid raised on Top 40.  Little did I know there was a whole world of music just waiting for me to discover it.

As for your last sentence, my feeling is that whatever gets the music out is good.  I believe that all humans have the capacity to make music of some kind.  It is a real shame that music, in our Western European culture, was not treated in a similar manner to learning to walk and talk.  Those skills are just naturally assumed as something everybody can do.  But for some reason, music has long been held as some mystical thing that "some gots it, some don't", and those that are deemed to not have that mystical God-given talent, are to forever stay away from it and leave it to the "gifted".  What nonsense!  But by the time we each realize what could have been, we seem to accept that it is too late.  It is the myths that prevent most people from even trying.

Tony


----------



## old medic

I dont consider myself a musician, but I have been picking around on stuff since a kid... Grandfather had a square dance band,
So was always around the old tyme music... Picked up a Mandolin around 8... Guitar around 14... High school we had a garage band and played Bass and some drums. Then I got back into the old tyme music and started playing clawhammer banjo and some fiddling. 
Love the sound of an old frettless Banjo.


----------



## OneEyedDiva

tbeltrans said:


> Unfortunately, it is a popularity contest.  There are good rock musicians, but there is a lot of nonsense too.  Any time I mention any of the jazz musicians I listen to, all I get are blank stares.
> 
> One problem is exposure to the music.  When we were growing up, there was mainstream radio and what we heard was what we knew.  Most of the time, we listened to AM radio.  At least in our area, jazz and classical music were the domain of FM radio for a long time.  Most of the kids I knew did bother with that.  Later, when Top 40 and country became available on FM, that attracted us kids.
> 
> I really wasn't exposed to jazz until later when I got into the band.  I have to admit to being the typical suburban kid raised on Top 40.  Little did I know there was a whole world of music just waiting for me to discover it.
> 
> As for your last sentence, my feeling is that whatever gets the music out is good.  I believe that all humans have the capacity to make music of some kind.  It is a real shame that music, in our Western European culture, was not treated in a similar manner to learning to walk and talk.  Those skills are just naturally assumed as something everybody can do.  But for some reason, music has long been held as some mystical thing that "some gots it, some don't", and those that are deemed to not have that mystical God-given talent, are to forever stay away from it and leave it to the "gifted".  What nonsense!  But by the time we each realize what could have been, we seem to accept that it is too late.  It is the myths that prevent most people from even trying.
> 
> Tony


Who are your favorite Jazz artists Tony? I'm not quite sure how I first got into Jazz but it may have been when I heard one of my high school BFFs play a Jazzy piano tune her music teacher taught her. Then she played a clear red vinyl album, Ritmos Caliente, for me by Cal Tjader who was a master of Latin Jazz. I loved that album so much that she gave it to me. Now Latin is one of my favorite genres to compose in. 

I started listening to Symphony Sid when I was about 15, around the same time I heard that Latin Jazz album. He came on in the evening and played Jazz tunes. In addition to Cal Tjader, I got into Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Bob James, Herbie Hancock, Ramsey Lewis, Jimmy Smith, Charles Earland, Donald Byrd and so many more. But I also had R & B and Rock in my collection because like you, I listened to mainstream radio. I loved Jocko (Henderson) and Alan Freed. My son and I have a motto:  So much music, so little time.


----------



## Irwin

drifter said:


> Growing up I ran around with a bunch of musicians. I wanted to play badly but never learned to play an instrument.
> Back then there were no amps. All the musicians would gather on someones front porch and would start tuning up
> and before you knew it, ir was three or four a.m.


That's because they didn't have electronic tuners back then. It doesn't take nearly as long to get in tune these days.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.    )


----------



## NewRetire18

OneEyedDiva said:


> I really like your song Paco. I can imagine listening to this while relaxing and reminiscing.  I like the production. It sounds real good coming out of my speakers. I'd never heard of Audiomack before. I'm using SoundCloud. I wonder if one has advantages over the other.
> 
> @tbeltrans _"Do you folks know what the difference between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist is?" _And what ticks me off about that is that when some obscure rock musician dies, it makes the news. There have been some great Jazz performers who's passings did not make the news.
> 
> @Keesha  I'm doing a little something in Garage Band for a project with my son. He invested in the Logic digital studio. I had Logic years ago and finished producing some of my music in it (after transferring from my instrument). After a few years, the program crashed. Good thing I had "bounced" some of the songs into iTunes. My son was able to help me raise the volume of one using Audacity so I could release it. Another that I released was completely done in Logic using a Logic loop as it's foundation. Unfortunately, I lost several tracks even before the program completely crashed. My son is trying to get me to get Logic again. I told him I'm not willing. If I can't do the majority of what I want to do in Garage Band then have him import the tracks into Logic....so be it.  He was excited when he figured out how to get the Clavinova and Logic program "talking to each other".  I'm sure he'll be able to do the same with Logic and GB.
> 
> I'm not crazy about digital production although I know that's the way to go these days.  How do you feel about it?


Out of curiosity, any reason you aren't happy with this method? After having used analog recording in studio in the past, I would readily agree that digital production is really is the only way to go. The number of advantages it has over analog it would fill this forum. 

People incorrectly declare MP3s as the "digital standard", but those are really compressed (reduced depth/sample rate) mix-downs of much larger master digital files. I have a simple Digital Audio Workstation (DAW), but even IT works with 32-bit audio, with up to 192KHz bandwidth which is spatially (and physically) huge compared to the MP3s it can produce. The mastering data doesn't suffer from physical decline from storage problems like print-thru, wow/flutter, missing magnetic regions on tape, head bias and wear problems...plus digital recorded data never degrades between transfers of media. Once recorded, it stays in that shape, and can be re-mixed, re-mastered unlimited numbers of times. I am a budding novice in this field, but even my mastering experiments seem to  get better and better with every re-master as I learn to use the tools. 

The biggest downside to digital, though, is that it is not as simple as plugging in a mic, and hitting record. There is reason the field is called 'Audio Engineering', so I get that it is harder to manage. The biggest upside, as a musician, is that I can cut and paste out note errors, so I sound like a fabulous player!! OK, ok, then how about a good player? Ok, ok, a drunk novice on Paxil. But I am learning!!


----------



## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> Unfortunately, it is a popularity contest.  There are good rock musicians, but there is a lot of nonsense too.  Any time I mention any of the jazz musicians I listen to, all I get are blank stares.
> 
> One problem is exposure to the music.  When we were growing up, there was mainstream radio and what we heard was what we knew.  Most of the time, we listened to AM radio.  At least in our area, jazz and classical music were the domain of FM radio for a long time.  Most of the kids I knew did bother with that.  Later, when Top 40 and country became available on FM, that attracted us kids.
> 
> I really wasn't exposed to jazz until later when I got into the band.  I have to admit to being the typical suburban kid raised on Top 40.  Little did I know there was a whole world of music just waiting for me to discover it.
> 
> As for your last sentence, my feeling is that whatever gets the music out is good.  I believe that all humans have the capacity to make music of some kind.  It is a real shame that music, in our Western European culture, was not treated in a similar manner to learning to walk and talk.  Those skills are just naturally assumed as something everybody can do.  But for some reason, music has long been held as some mystical thing that "some gots it, some don't", and those that are deemed to not have that mystical God-given talent, are to forever stay away from it and leave it to the "gifted".  What nonsense!  But by the time we each realize what could have been, we seem to accept that it is too late.  It is the myths that prevent most people from even trying.
> 
> Tony


For me, learning jazz guitar has been my ultimate goal, though I tend toward jazz/fusion (think Steely Dan) even at that. I am spending hours learning Larry Carlton's approach to the neck. Man, it has been an intimidating foreign land, but I am adapting to a new reality, and my wife has noticed a very big difference in my playing. It really makes you stretch when you are comfortable with the neck, but hear something that you really can't wrap your mind and fingers around. The main paradigm shift is beginning to happen, though. I used to be able to play anything I could mentally hear, but now I find mental progressions in my mind that I can't 'stream of conscious' play, so I have to stop, and slowly pick out the notes in places I wasn't connecting with mentally. That is forcing major fingering position changes, and to be honest, a completely different approach to the neck. I can hardly wait until I get there, and can naturally play some of what I am now starting to form in my mind.


----------



## tbeltrans

OneEyedDiva said:


> Who are your favorite Jazz artists Tony? I'm not quite sure how I first got into Jazz but it may have been when I heard one of my high school BFFs play a Jazzy piano tune her music teacher taught her. Then she played a clear red vinyl album, Ritmos Caliente, for me by Cal Tjader who was a master of Latin Jazz. I loved that album so much that she gave it to me. Now Latin is one of my favorite genres to compose in.
> 
> I started listening to Symphony Sid when I was about 15, around the same time I heard that Latin Jazz album. He came on in the evening and played Jazz tunes. In addition to Cal Tjader, I got into Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Bob James, Herbie Hancock, Ramsey Lewis, Jimmy Smith, Charles Earland, Donald Byrd and so many more. But I also had R & B and Rock in my collection because like you, I listened to mainstream radio. I loved Jocko (Henderson) and Alan Freed. My son and I have a motto:  So much music, so little time.


I tend towards solo artists and small combos.  Bill Evans is a favorite, as is Joe Pass, Art Tatum, Oscar Peterson, Barney Kessel, Tal Farlow, Wes Montgomery, Ralph Towner, Charlie Byrd, Pat Martino, Oscar Moore (and the Nat King Cole trio of course)...

As you can see, I tend to listen less to horn players, though I do like Johnny Hodges, Stan Getz, and others of that general smooth warm style.

There are lots of jazz artists, but these are my primary influences for guitar and piano.

As for vocalists, my favorite collection is the Ella Fitzgerald Songbooks.

Interesting item about Nat King Cole was that apparently he wanted to be a jazz pianist, but had to sing to get decent gigs.  Who knew?   

Tony


----------



## tbeltrans

NewRetire18 said:


> For me, learning jazz guitar has been my ultimate goal, though I tend toward jazz/fusion (think Steely Dan) even at that. I am spending hours learning Larry Carlton's approach to the neck. Man, it has been an intimidating foreign land, but I am adapting to a new reality, and my wife has noticed a very big difference in my playing. It really makes you stretch when you are comfortable with the neck, but hear something that you really can't wrap your mind and fingers around. The main paradigm shift is beginning to happen, though. I used to be able to play anything I could mentally hear, but now I find mental progressions in my mind that I can't 'stream of conscious' play, so I have to stop, and slowly pick out the notes in places I wasn't connecting with mentally. That is forcing major fingering position changes, and to be honest, a completely different approach to the neck. I can hardly wait until I get there, and can naturally play some of what I am now starting to form in my mind.


My studies, are continuous.  For learning by ear, my ongoing projects are Joe Pass last two albums with him on solo nylon string guitar "Song For Ellen" and "Unforgettable".

I consider the materials from Robert Conti and Frank Vignola to be my primary "book learning" materials.  Frank Vignola has several courses on Truefire, and Conti has a couple of book/DVD combos that are right in line with my interests.  We never stop learning.

Tony


----------



## drifter

Irwin said:


> That's because they didn't have electronic tuners back then. It doesn't take nearly as long to get in tune these days.
> 
> (Sorry, I couldn't resist.    )


----------



## drifter

Yes sometime our thought process gets in the way and our mind jumps ahead. We See it all in our minds but reader's don't and our written matter is unclear to everyone but ourselves. My old
self is developing flaws, eh?


----------



## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> My studies, are continuous.  For learning by ear, my ongoing projects are Joe Pass last two albums with him on solo nylon string guitar "Song For Ellen" and "Unforgettable".
> 
> I consider the materials from Robert Conti and Frank Vignola to be my primary "book learning" materials.  Frank Vignola has several courses on Truefire, and Conti has a couple of book/DVD combos that are right in line with my interests.  We never stop learning.
> 
> Tony


Yes, and yes, and yes. Charlie Byrd, George Barns, Bucky Pitzarelli, Joe Pass, Wes, Rit, Carlton, Earl Klugh, George Benson, and when I get good, I will finally tackle Charlie Parker's riffs, and John Coltrane's Giant Steps. I have seen guitarists do both, and I wanted to bow down at my screen. Both depressing and invigorating at the same time.


----------



## tbeltrans

Irwin said:


> That's because they didn't have electronic tuners back then. It doesn't take nearly as long to get in tune these days.
> 
> (Sorry, I couldn't resist.    )


Leo Kottke once told me that we should try to continue tuning our guitars by ear because otherwise, our ears can get lazy. Obviously in noisy situations such as a gig, an electronic tuner is a definite asset. 

At home, I use an A 440hz pitch fork and do the Johnny Smith of tuning all the strings to A (6th string/5th fret, 5th string/open/12th fret, 4th string/7th fret, 3rd string/10th fret, 1st string/5th fret).

A church band I played in for a while back when my wife wanted me to go to church with her, had two acoustic guitar players, me and another guy.  There was a piano that was always out of tune because they didn't have the funds to keep it tuned more than once a year.  I tuned my guitar by ear to the piano such that it worked with the piano, while the other guy always had to use a tuner.  I remember it was a Korg electronic tuner with a big meter, and the needle pointed straight up when the string was in tune.  He was truly unable to tune by ear so he couldn't tune to the piano.  I had to start showing up early and tune up both guitars ahead of time.

So there is truth to what Kottke said.  Oddly, I posted this in a thread in a guitar forum and was taken to task about using my ears when tuning!  To me, music is a HEARING art first and foremost and I fail to understand why more people don't consider ear training to be of utmost importance.  But, then, I guess I am just "old school".

Edit: For those who don't know who he is, here is a video of Leo Kottke in concert:






Tony


----------



## OneEyedDiva

NewRetire18 said:


> Out of curiosity, any reason you aren't happy with this method? After having used analog recording in studio in the past, I would readily agree that digital production is really is the only way to go. The number of advantages it has over analog it would fill this forum.
> 
> People incorrectly declare MP3s as the "digital standard", but those are really compressed (reduced depth/sample rate) mix-downs of much larger master digital files. I have a simple Digital Audio Workstation (DAW), but even IT works with 32-bit audio, with up to 192KHz bandwidth which is spatially (and physically) huge compared to the MP3s it can produce. The mastering data doesn't suffer from physical decline from storage problems like print-thru, wow/flutter, missing magnetic regions on tape, head bias and wear problems...plus digital recorded data never degrades between transfers of media. Once recorded, it stays in that shape, and can be re-mixed, re-mastered unlimited numbers of times. I am a budding novice in this field, but even my mastering experiments seem to  get better and better with every re-master as I learn to use the tools.
> 
> The biggest downside to digital, though, is that it is not as simple as plugging in a mic, and hitting record. There is reason the field is called 'Audio Engineering', so I get that it is harder to manage. The biggest upside, as a musician, is that I can cut and paste out note errors, so I sound like a fabulous player!! OK, ok, then how about a good player? Ok, ok, a drunk novice on Paxil. But I am learning!!


_"Out of curiosity, any reason you aren't happy with this method?" _I'm assuming you are asking me about not caring for digital production. If so, I feel that working at a digital station so much took my musicality away. And truth be told, to this day, I still think the songs sound better coming off my instrument. A friend of mine who has been producing music digitally for herself and other artists just told me the other day that MP3s don't render the best sound. My son who studied audio engineering at an institute that had Art Garfinkle as a client (forgot the name of it) agrees. See...this is "his" speak _"but even IT works with 32-bit audio, with up to 192KHz bandwidth which is spatially (and physically) huge_ _compared to the MP3s it can produce."_. I play the music, I hear the music. Either I'm satisfied with it or I'm not. My son, who's also a deejay (who swears by vinyl but uses modern methods) engineers and masters my music for me. He's excellent at his craft. And he loves the digital stuff.


----------



## Keesha

Before moving I had my 1953 saxophone refurbished for its 3rd time. She’s 68 years old and still plays beautifully. I’m so glad I’ve never lost or sold this instrument. It’s vintage and I’ve owned it for 47 years now. It has sentimental value. I bought this cool case for it.


----------



## tbeltrans

There is another piano player, not jazz, but instead exquisite cocktail style, Jim Haskins.  He worked in the financial world as a high level stock trader or adviser and he lived in Hawaii.  Every year for about 20 years, he would put out a CD, for a total of 20 CDs before he died.  I used to call him and order directly from him.  He was a joy to talk to.  His attitude about cocktail piano is that the pianist's job is to provide ambience for the room while at the same time playing tunes that people easily recognized and could hear the melody to, all the way through the tune.

His CDs are quiet, classy, and listening to them is like being wrapped up in a warm blanket while a storm is raging outside.  I ripped them all and have them on my smart phone.  

Most of the CDs are mostly collections of the Great American Songbook, a CD of show tunes, a CD of Christmas tunes, a CD of ballads from the 1970s, and a CD of the tunes from WWII.

That is the way I am heading on the piano and am exploring doing so on the guitar.  Chord melody is often rather stiff, smoothed only by the sustain of a decent archtop pickup.  Earl Klugh has certainly mastered keeping it interesting on a classical guitar.  I am looking to do something less complex, more along the lines of Jim Haskins.  Unfortunately, his CDs only show up occasionally used on Ebay or similar sites because they were released through a small private company and are no longer commercially available so you folks probably won't be able to hear him.

Most CDs of cocktail piano are, in my opinion, far too showy where Jim Haskins was very relaxed and just right.  Anyway, I want to carry that sensibility over to guitar.

Tony


----------



## tbeltrans

OneEyedDiva said:


> _"Out of curiosity, any reason you aren't happy with this method?" _I'm assuming you are asking me about not caring for digital production. If so, I feel that working at a digital station so much took my musicality away. And truth be told, to this day, I still think the songs sound better coming off my instrument. A friend of mine who has been producing music digitally for herself and other artists just told me the other day that MP3s don't render the best sound. My son who studied audio engineering at an institute that had Art Garfinkle as a client (forgot the name of it) agrees. See...this is "his" speak _"but even IT works with 32-bit audio, with up to 192KHz bandwidth which is spatially (and physically) huge_ _compared to the MP3s it can produce."_. I play the music, I hear the music. Either I'm satisfied with it or I'm not. My son, who's also a deejay (who swears by vinyl but uses modern methods) engineers and masters my music for me. He's excellent at his craft. And he loves the digital stuff.


MP3s don't render the best sound because they are compressed.  No matter what anybody says, there is no such thing as lossless compression when it comes to audio.  It is certainly a high standard to aim for, but something has to be removed to create such relatively small files.

Fortunately for me, my aging ears are fine with MP3s.  My days of high end stereo are long past and a balance convenience and acceptable sound suits me just fine.

For me, there is something definitely "unmusical" about creating music with a computer.  I say "for me" because I don't want to make a blanket statement that would have to include those for whom the computer IS the musical instrument.  I suspect there are such people, particularly those young enough to not have known a world without all this technology in the average person's hands.

A discussion about WAV files, sampling bandwidth and frequency, would get really involved and require too much typing, so I will say that there ARE people who can hear these differences and certainly the difference between analog vinyl and digital.  I worked as an engineering tech in a hearing company after leaving the band, and had the opportunity to take advantage of having access to a phenomenal lab to learn a lot about how we hear and, more importantly, how we perceive what we hear (i.e. psychoacoustics).  It is common for those who can't hear these differences to argue that they don't exist.  That is the fodder of much argument in audio circles, but suffice it to say these differences are real and demonstrable.

Tony


----------



## OneEyedDiva

Here's the SoundCloud link for two of my unreleased songs, copyrighted a couple of decades ago.  Just A Little Timpani, which is Jazzy with a dash of Hip Hop, was done without using the rhythm section, so I'm playing all the instruments and hand claps as well as doing the "scratching". The one sound the Clavinova doesn't do well is tenor sax, so I've asked a sax player friend of mine if he will play on this track for me after he finishes his project. I intend to lengthen the song. This version was not engineered.  I used the rhythm section on Martha's Back!  I am playing the piano, horns, strings and digital choir parts. The song has a Baptist Church Gospel feel.

__
		https://soundcloud.com/user-63576323
@Pecos @Keesha @Shalimar @MarciKS @Gaer


----------



## NewRetire18

OneEyedDiva said:


> _"Out of curiosity, any reason you aren't happy with this method?" _I'm assuming you are asking me about not caring for digital production. If so, I feel that working at a digital station so much took my musicality away. And truth be told, to this day, I still think the songs sound better coming off my instrument. A friend of mine who has been producing music digitally for herself and other artists just told me the other day that MP3s don't render the best sound. My son who studied audio engineering at an institute that had Art Garfinkle as a client (forgot the name of it) agrees. See...this is "his" speak _"but even IT works with 32-bit audio, with up to 192KHz bandwidth which is spatially (and physically) huge_ _compared to the MP3s it can produce."_. I play the music, I hear the music. Either I'm satisfied with it or I'm not. My son, who's also a deejay (who swears by vinyl but uses modern methods) engineers and masters my music for me. He's excellent at his craft. And he loves the digital stuff.


To be honest, I don't think most musicians should become recording engineers. It's one thing, for example, to sit down and play the ivories and have your ears bathed in wonderful harmonics. It's another thing entirely to assemble all the parts of a piano to make it playable. One path is pure joy, and the other is hard work (which can lead to the death of joy)!! Kudos to your path; you are already well beyond what most people will ever accomplish, and you should be proud that you have attained a level of producing work you like. That to me, is absolutely *huge*.


----------



## OneEyedDiva

tbeltrans said:


> MP3s don't render the best sound because they are compressed.  No matter what anybody says, there is no such thing as lossless compression when it comes to audio.  It is certainly a high standard to aim for, but something has to be removed to create such relatively small files.
> 
> Fortunately for me, my aging ears are fine with MP3s.  My days of high end stereo are long past and a balance convenience and acceptable sound suits me just fine.
> 
> For me, there is something definitely "unmusical" about creating music with a computer.  I say "for me" because I don't want to make a blanket statement that would have to include those for whom the computer IS the musical instrument.  I suspect there are such people, particularly those young enough to not have known a world without all this technology in the average person's hands.
> 
> A discussion about WAV files, sampling bandwidth and frequency, would get really involved and require too much typing, so I will say that there ARE people who can hear these differences and certainly the difference between analog vinyl and digital.  I worked as an engineering tech in a hearing company after leaving the band, and had the opportunity to take advantage of having access to a phenomenal lab to learn a lot about how we hear and, more importantly, how we perceive what we hear (i.e. psychoacoustics).  It is common for those who can't hear these differences to argue that they don't exist.  That is the fodder of much argument in audio circles, but suffice it to say these differences are real and demonstrable.
> 
> Tony


My ears are fine with MP3s too. My husband used to be amazed at what my son and I could detect when he could not. But we both have very discerning ears. My son can definitely detect the differences in the different types of audio files. Like you, I don't knock anyone who works digitally whatever their reason. It's just not my favorite thing.  A very good friend has worked mostly digitally for years and as mentioned in another reply, she does tracks for herself and others.  One thing digital allows which is great, is musicians being able to "play together" even though they are not together.  She just sent me a couple of songs that were produced that way and they sound great. 

 I noticed when I went to upload my songs ( which are in the above reply) to SoundCloud, they requested WAV and other types of files other than MP3s.

@retiredtraveler  I meant to say that my son is now transferring tracks individually from my instrument into his Logic program, which he is loving. I admit songs can be edited more efficiently using the program. And no file corruptions will occur like they did with one of my songs after I transferred it using the floppy disk reader.


----------



## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> Leo Kottke once told me that we should try to continue tuning our guitars by ear because otherwise, our ears can get lazy. Obviously in noisy situations such as a gig, an electronic tuner is a definite asset.
> 
> At home, I use an A 440hz pitch fork and do the Johnny Smith of tuning all the strings to A (6th string/5th fret, 5th string/open/12th fret, 4th string/7th fret, 3rd string/10th fret, 1st string/5th fret).
> 
> A church band I played in for a while back when my wife wanted me to go to church with her, had two acoustic guitar players, me and another guy.  There was a piano that was always out of tune because they didn't have the funds to keep it tuned more than once a year.  I tuned my guitar by ear to the piano such that it worked with the piano, while the other guy always had to use a tuner.  I remember it was a Korg electronic tuner with a big meter, and the needle pointed straight up when the string was in tune.  He was truly unable to tune by ear so he couldn't tune to the piano.  I had to start showing up early and tune up both guitars ahead of time.
> 
> So there is truth to what Kottke said.  Oddly, I posted this in a thread in a guitar forum and was taken to task about using my ears when tuning!  To me, music is a HEARING art first and foremost and I fail to understand why more people don't consider ear training to be of utmost importance.  But, then, I guess I am just "old school".
> 
> Edit: For those who don't know who he is, here is a video of Leo Kottke in concert:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony


The other reason tuning by ear is better, (and I will willingly die on that hill), is that what does someone do when they get their guitar in open tune (lol), but can't tell that the notes don't accurately track (chromatically) up the neck? I have had all my guitars setup, but in travel, humidity, heat, etc changed them slightly, so I learned how to do setups myself, and tune my bridges on all my guitars, even re-tensioning the neck if and when my straight edge shows deviation. Yeah, I'm kinda anal here, but one thing that really drives me slightly insane is to hit a note at fret 16, and find it to be slightly sharp or flat relative to open. Here's where it pays to play electronic keyboards!


----------



## tbeltrans

NewRetire18 said:


> The other reason tuning by ear is better, (and I will willingly die on that hill), is that what does someone do when they get their guitar in open tune (lol), but can't tell that the notes don't accurately track (chromatically) up the neck? I have had all my guitars setup, but in travel, humidity, heat, etc changed them slightly, so I learned how to do setups myself, and tune my bridges on all my guitars, even re-tensioning the neck if and when my straight edge shows deviation. Yeah, I'm kinda anal here, but one thing that really drives me slightly insane is to hit a note at fret 16, and find it to be slightly sharp or flat relative to open. Here's where it pays to play electronic keyboards!


I personally prefer "real" instruments, but do have a digital piano because I live in a condo and don't wish to disturb the neighbors.

Though I have dabbled with open tunings, I seem to always come back to standard tuning.  I know where all the notes are in standard tuning instantly, can build any chord anywhere on the fretboard because I also know how to spell chords, and that means I don't have to always rely on standard grips.

For me, open tunings are fun to just play around with and hear what I can come up with, with no thought for building chords or scales - just sounds.

Players such as Pierre Bensusan will pick one tuning and learn it the way I did with standard tuning.  Other players will just twiddle the tuners and listen for some tuning that seems worth exploring.  It is all good and a lot of creative music is made with open tunings.

Tony


----------



## tbeltrans

OneEyedDiva said:


> Here's the SoundCloud link for two of my unreleased songs, copyrighted a couple of decades ago.  Just A Little Timpani, which is Jazzy with a dash of Hip Hop, was done without using the rhythm section, so I'm playing all the instruments, the hand claps as well as doing the "scratching". The one sound the Clavinova didn't do well is tenor sax, so I've asked a sax player friend of mine if he will play on this track for me after he finishes his project. I intend to extend it. This version was not engineered.  I used the rhythm section on Martha's Back!  I am playing the piano, horns, strings and digital choir parts. The song has a Baptist Church Gospel feel.
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/user-63576323
> @Pecos


This is some really good music!  Thanks for sharing.

Tony


----------



## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> I personally prefer "real" instruments, but do have a digital piano because I live in a condo and don't wish to disturb the neighbors.
> 
> Though I have dabbled with open tunings, I seem to always come back to standard tuning.  I know where all the notes are in standard tuning instantly, can build any chord anywhere on the fretboard because I also know how to spell chords, and that means I don't have to always rely on standard grips.
> 
> For me, open tunings are fun to just play around with and hear what I can come up with, with no thought for building chords or scales - just sounds.
> 
> Players such as Pierre Bensusan will pick one tuning and learn it the way I did with standard tuning.  Other players will just twiddle the tuners and listen for some tuning that seems worth exploring.  It is all good and a lot of creative music is made with open tunings.
> 
> Tony


Oops, sorry. I also like std tuning. By open, I meant using a tuner with the guitar string un-depressed such as an E,A,D,G,B,E at open position, and not at octaves or an 'A' resonating on, say, string 6, fret 5. The tuner will tell you the truth at open, but won't guarantee tuning once the string is depressed in a higher position.


----------



## tbeltrans

NewRetire18 said:


> Oops, sorry. I also like std tuning. By open, I meant using a tuner with the guitar string un-depressed such as an E,A,D,G,B,E at open position, and not at octaves or an 'A' resonating on, say, string 6, fret 5.


It (to me) goes unsaid that there is always a bit of fine tuning once we get through whatever we do initially to get the guitar in tune.  To me, the strings sound better overall when they are ever so slightly detuned from each other.  That is something that, as far as I know, can only be done by ear.  It is a kind of "sweetening" process that one has to hear rather than see on a meter.

Tony


----------



## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> It (to me) goes unsaid that there is always a bit of fine tuning once we get through whatever we do initially to get the guitar in tune.  To me, the strings sound better overall when they are ever so slightly detuned from each other.  That is something that, as far as I know, can only be done by ear.  It is a kind of "sweetening" process that one has to hear rather than see on a meter.
> 
> Tony


Yep.  I read somewhere, that when the original recording engineer was working with ABBA, he had created a unique sound by duplicating vocal tracks, slightly detuning them, and adding them back into the mix for mastering. The result was the 'ABBA' sound. Recording engineers can really create some magic when they know what they are doing.


----------



## tbeltrans

NewRetire18 said:


> Yep.  I read somewhere, that when the original recording engineer was working with ABBA, he had created a unique sound by duplicating vocal tracks, slightly detuning them, and adding them back into the mix for mastering. The result was the 'ABBA' sound. Recording engineers can really create some magic when they know what they are doing.


True enough!  When you rent a studio with an engineer to make a recording, really you are mostly paying for the skills of the engineer to make the recording work.  That is the singular issue with recording myself at home for anything more than part of the practice process.  I really don't have the time or inclination to learn the art of recording.  That would be akin to learning another instrument.

Tony


----------



## Paco Dennis

WARNING , story contains impure actions. 

NewRetire18 mentioned Larry Carlton. He was a big influence in my "teen" years. Thus the story :

  I was at an outdoor concert sitting by myself when a gorgeous blonde diva came up to me and asked if she could sit down ( I grew up in the "Silicon Valley" in CA ). I was half in shock...but we got on real well, and then said our goodbyes. About three years later we played a gig and during the break SHE walked up to me, again we had some chemistry ( I wanted to believe ), so she gave me her phone number. One day I was day dreaming of her, so I called and asked her out. She told me she didn't think her boyfriend would like that. She said he played guitar too and told me who he was playing with. I was disappointed and I knew the band she was talking about, and where the Harp player lived. Her boyfriend was living there too she said. Sooooooo, I marched right over there with my old 335 Gibson and was gonna have a duel with this guy just so I could feel "superior" in some way. ( I hate the ego games in the business, it is basically why I quit it ).  I was thinking with another part of my body...it wasn't the brain. We sat down and he invited me to play some. I showed off and then he picked up his guitar and literally blew my mind. I didn't know what he was doing but he played better than anyone local I had heard...his name...Robin Ford!!!!  Man was that a real wake up moment for me. That year he Joined "The LA Express" and he hasn't stopped yet.  Here is Robin playing with Larry.


----------



## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> True enough!  When you rent a studio with an engineer to make a recording, really you are mostly paying for the skills of the engineer to make the recording work.  That is the singular issue with recording myself at home for anything more than part of the practice process.  I really don't have the time or inclination to learn the art of recording.  That would be akin to learning another instrument.
> 
> Tony


Yeah. I’m so behind on computer technology that it would be easier for me to learn a brand new instrument than learn some of the software made for recording. I did however make several recordings and almost shared them but then chickened out.  lol


----------



## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> Yeah. I’m so behind on computer technology that it would be easier for me to learn a brand new instrument than learn some of the software made for recording. I did however make several recordings and almost shared them but then chickened out.  lol


Well, though there is certainly a learning curve to the software, I was mostly referring to the skills it takes to know what microphones to stock in your mic closet, and then know each of them so well that you know when and where to place them for best effect.  Then, there is setting up the room to "tune it" so you don't have frequency aberrations that can ruin a recording.  After you have mastered all of that, which is much more than I touched on here such as gain staging at all points along the signal chain just to name one, you have to master the recording, mixing, and mastering processes.  There is a HUGE difference between a professionally recorded tune and one done by somebody such as myself.

Tony


----------



## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> Well, though there is certainly a learning curve to the software, I was mostly referring to the skills it takes to know what microphones to stock in your mic closet, and then know each of them so well that you know when and where to place them for best effect.  Then, there is setting up the room to "tune it" so you don't have frequency aberrations that can ruin a recording.  After you have mastered all of that, which is much more than I touched on here such as gain staging at all points along the signal chain just to name one, you have to master the recording, mixing, and mastering processes.  There is a HUGE difference between a professionally recorded tune and one done by somebody such as myself.
> 
> Tony


Ok!


----------



## tbeltrans

Paco Dennis said:


> WARNING , story contains impure actions.
> 
> NewRetire18 mentioned Larry Carlton. He was a big influence in my "teen" years. Thus the story :
> 
> I was at an outdoor concert sitting by myself when a gorgeous blonde diva came up to me and asked if she could sit down ( I grew up in the "Silicon Valley" in CA ). I was half in shock...but we got on real well, and then said our goodbyes. About three years later we played a gig and during the break SHE walked up to me, again we had some chemistry ( I wanted to believe ), so she gave me her phone number. One day I was day dreaming of her, so I called and asked her out. She told me she didn't think her boyfriend would like that. She said he played guitar too and told me who he was playing with. I was disappointed and I knew the band she was talking about, and where the Harp player lived. Her boyfriend was living there too she said. Sooooooo, I marched right over there with my old 335 Gibson and was gonna have a duel with this guy just so I could feel "superior" in some way. ( I hate the ego games in the business, it is basically why I quit it ).  I was thinking with another part of my body...it wasn't the brain. We sat down and he invited me to play some. I showed off and then he picked up his guitar and literally blew my mind. I didn't know what he was doing but he played better than anyone local I had heard...his name...Robin Ford!!!!  Man was that a real wake up moment for me. That year he Joined "The LA Express" and he hasn't stopped yet.  Here is Robin playing with Larry.


Never heard of these guys [runs for cover]...  

Impressive tale to be sure.  I went to a week long fingerstyle in the early 80s when I was really into Kottke's music.  I had learned a bunch of his material off recordings.  We stayed in the dorm at the U of Wisconsin in Milwaukee.  I played one of his tunes and just then he walked in.  He said it wasn't quite how he would play it, but he liked it. 

The players there teaching and giving concerts that year were Michael Hedges, Alex De Grassi, Leo Kottke, Ben Verdery, Pierre Bensusan, and Peter Lang.  There were a few others that I don't recall at the moment, but that gives you an idea of what this event was.  It was great sitting toe to toe with these guys talking and playing guitar.  A few weeks later I ran into John Fahey, and that was an interesting encounter.

Tony


----------



## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> Ok!


Sorry, I didn't mean to dismiss anything you said.  It is quite a skill to really learn any of that DAW software.  I just wanted to add that all the recording skills aside from the software have a HUGE learning curve.  Most decent engineers go to school for a couple of years to learn these skills the same way that the rest of us go to college or vo-tech to learn what we need to do our respective jobs.

It is all a rather tough road to hoe if you want really decent results.  I decided not to go that route once I got a sense of what is involved.  I have done some studio work as a sit-in guitar player, but all I had to do was play when told to.

So all that I have said on the subject is agreeing with, and supporting what you said, rather than disagreeing in any way at all.  Making recordings to share with your friends is a completely different thing and I am sure you can get decent enough results for that without having to learn all that I mentioned.  I was talking about putting high quality recordings out on one of those streaming sites.  These are two very different goals.

Tony


----------



## Old Dummy

Paco Dennis said:


> I have play guitar for 55 years.



I've been playing since 1976. Started first with the 5-string banjo, guitar a bit later (was into bluegrass). Shoulda done the guitar first. I've monkeyed with the mandolin, fiddle, and keyboard over the years.

I still play the flat top nearly every night. All of my local bluegrass gang disappeared 25-30 years ago from divorces, deaths, and people moving out of the area.

There's nobody around here that plays anymore that I'm aware of. My guitar hero has always been Chet Atkins, and I'm constantly trying to improve my technique -- albeit alone.

Here's one of the nicest ones Chet ever did:


----------



## Irwin

tbeltrans said:


> Leo Kottke once told me that we should try to continue tuning our guitars by ear because otherwise, our ears can get lazy. Obviously in noisy situations such as a gig, an electronic tuner is a definite asset.
> 
> At home, I use an A 440hz pitch fork and do the Johnny Smith of tuning all the strings to A (6th string/5th fret, 5th string/open/12th fret, 4th string/7th fret, 3rd string/10th fret, 1st string/5th fret).
> 
> A church band I played in for a while back when my wife wanted me to go to church with her, had two acoustic guitar players, me and another guy.  There was a piano that was always out of tune because they didn't have the funds to keep it tuned more than once a year.  I tuned my guitar by ear to the piano such that it worked with the piano, while the other guy always had to use a tuner.  I remember it was a Korg electronic tuner with a big meter, and the needle pointed straight up when the string was in tune.  He was truly unable to tune by ear so he couldn't tune to the piano.  I had to start showing up early and tune up both guitars ahead of time.
> 
> So there is truth to what Kottke said.  Oddly, I posted this in a thread in a guitar forum and was taken to task about using my ears when tuning!  To me, music is a HEARING art first and foremost and I fail to understand why more people don't consider ear training to be of utmost importance.  But, then, I guess I am just "old school".
> 
> Edit: For those who don't know who he is, here is a video of Leo Kottke in concert:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony


I saw Leo Kottke maybe ten years ago. He's a great guitarist. All his songs kind of sound the same, though.


----------



## Irwin

Paco Dennis said:


> WARNING , story contains impure actions.
> 
> NewRetire18 mentioned Larry Carlton. He was a big influence in my "teen" years. Thus the story :
> 
> I was at an outdoor concert sitting by myself when a gorgeous blonde diva came up to me and asked if she could sit down ( I grew up in the "Silicon Valley" in CA ). I was half in shock...but we got on real well, and then said our goodbyes. About three years later we played a gig and during the break SHE walked up to me, again we had some chemistry ( I wanted to believe ), so she gave me her phone number. One day I was day dreaming of her, so I called and asked her out. She told me she didn't think her boyfriend would like that. She said he played guitar too and told me who he was playing with. I was disappointed and I knew the band she was talking about, and where the Harp player lived. Her boyfriend was living there too she said. Sooooooo, I marched right over there with my old 335 Gibson and was gonna have a duel with this guy just so I could feel "superior" in some way. ( I hate the ego games in the business, it is basically why I quit it ).  I was thinking with another part of my body...it wasn't the brain. We sat down and he invited me to play some. I showed off and then he picked up his guitar and literally blew my mind. I didn't know what he was doing but he played better than anyone local I had heard...his name...Robin Ford!!!!  Man was that a real wake up moment for me. That year he Joined "The LA Express" and he hasn't stopped yet.  Here is Robin playing with Larry.


Robin Ford, in recent years, has adapted SRV's style to some extent. In his early years, he said he tried to play like Mike Bloomfield. But even when he adapts other people's styles, he still makes it his own. Great guitar player!

I got to see him a while back, I think it was at the Fillmore here in Denver.


----------



## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to dismiss anything you said.  It is quite a skill to really learn any of that DAW software.  I just wanted to add that all the recording skills aside from the software have a HUGE learning curve.  Most decent engineers go to school for a couple of years to learn these skills the same way that the rest of us go to college or vo-tech to learn what we need to do our respective jobs.
> 
> It is all a rather tough road to hoe if you want really decent results.  I decided not to go that route once I got a sense of what is involved.  I have done some studio work as a sit-in guitar player, but all I had to do was play when told to.
> 
> So all that I have said on the subject is agreeing with, and supporting what you said, rather than disagreeing in any way at all.  Making recordings to share with your friends is a completely different thing and I am sure you can get decent enough results for that without having to learn all that I mentioned.  I was talking about putting high quality recordings out on one of those streaming sites.  These are two very different goals.
> 
> Tony


Lol.. I didn’t feel the least bit dismissed.
Most of what you said went over my head as does most of the conversation in this thread and I came to the realization that there are those who can compose an entire song without even knowing how to play an instrument.

It really is a skill to learn all that DAW software. So much so that I was spending more time frustrating myself with trying to learn that than practising my instruments.

It’s the same with photography or any type of artwork. With modern technology, artistic talent seems to not even be needed these days as anything can be created

The subject of music seems to get lost in all the computer jibberish.


----------



## Paco Dennis

@Keesha "The subject of music seems to get lost in all the computer jibberish."

The pandemic sure helped the digital music world.


----------



## Paco Dennis

Digital music can be complicated....A professional piano player demonstrates...






results...


__
		https://soundcloud.com/indiginus


----------



## NewRetire18

I'm just following along now, quietly. I am loving this thread, and the inputs. This is all great feedback.


----------



## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> Lol.. I didn’t feel the least bit dismissed.
> Most of what you said went over my head as does most of the conversation in this thread and I came to the realization that there are those who can compose an entire song without even knowing how to play an instrument.
> 
> It really is a skill to learn all that DAW software. So much so that I was spending more time frustrating myself with trying to learn that than practising my instruments.
> 
> It’s the same with photography or any type of artwork. With modern technology, artistic talent seems to not even be needed these days as anything can be created
> 
> The subject of music seems to get lost in all the computer jibberish.


For me, computers don't really play a part.  I use my laptop to play lesson videos or for learning from recordings by ear, but I keep it simple when it comes to making music - just me and my guitar and no electronics at all.

Tony


----------



## Paco Dennis

Advocacy for Guitar in Public Education How Things Work

"Summary and Making a Case for Relevance

            By understanding current educational practices, it is clear to this author that music in the classroom is a model for all core subject instruction. Many core subject teachers labor to create intrinsic student interest in their subjects. This is not the case with guitar.  It appeals to a large, diverse population and reaches students who are not otherwise reachable: students who are not involved in co-curricular activities.

Ensemble preparation and performance is not only a model for many current instructional practices, it exemplifies the various roles of society and fosters good citizenship. This is consistent with the original agenda of public education.

            From an administrative point of view, student interest is key for success in a school. If students are interested in their elective classes, they are more likely to attend their core classes. If they attend their core classes, they are likely to learn something. If they learn something, they are more likely to pass their standardized tests. As a result, truancy rates will drop, standardized test scores and graduation rates will improve, and the school will likely meet its AMO.

            Compared with other programs in a school system, guitar is relatively inexpensive. A class set of 30 guitars will have an initial cost of about $4,500. With five class sections using the instruments during the school day, the cost is $30 per student for the first year. After five years of use, the initial investment only costs $6 per student. The same can be inferred with a substantial text or method book."

https://www.guitarfoundation.org/page/EdVigil


----------



## Dana

_Yes... I am a musician ... I sing classical music, I am a classical pianist and I play the flute... not a lot of appreciation for that sort of thing on here, I'm afraid_ 
.


----------



## NewRetire18

Dana said:


> _Yes... I am a musician ... I sing classical music, I am a classical pianist and I play the flute... not a lot of appreciation for that sort of thing on here, I'm afraid_
> .


More than you might expect. I (apparently) borrow as much as I can from any source, and classical music contains the foundations of so much of the popular music that shows up today. Look at Rachmaninoff's influence in popular, and you can find parallels in most other composers as well. While experimenting with MuseScore, I had just composed my first short ditty to get grounded on notation and start back down the path to composing, and see what it can do to help me. Especially to see if tracks can be imported into my DAW. I sent the link to my best friend, and he said it reminded him of Bach!

Hmm. I'm basically a guitarist. Bach?? How did that stuff get in there???

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ll890aryj22m9wr/RoseWoodDreams.mp3?dl=0


----------



## Paco Dennis

Dana said:


> _Yes... I am a musician ... I sing classical music, I am a classical pianist and I play the flute... not a lot of appreciation for that sort of thing on here, I'm afraid_
> .


Well I for one appreciate it a lot!!! My Grandson is studying Classical Piano, and I love to see/hear his progress. I love the romantic period composers, and the whole process blows me away...the composer, the skill at playing the instruments, and the awesome product. I have to say though I am not a big fan of opera, mainly because I can't understand the lyrics.


----------



## Paco Dennis

NewRetire18 said:


> Hmm. I'm basically a guitarist. Bach?? How did that stuff get in there???
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ll890aryj22m9wr/RoseWoodDreams.mp3?dl=0


Very nice!!! I will try to find something I have done that is decent.


----------



## Paco Dennis

Almost decent.

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/harpis


----------



## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> WARNING , story contains impure actions.
> 
> NewRetire18 mentioned Larry Carlton. He was a big influence in my "teen" years. Thus the story :
> 
> I was at an outdoor concert sitting by myself when a gorgeous blonde diva came up to me and asked if she could sit down ( I grew up in the "Silicon Valley" in CA ). I was half in shock...but we got on real well, and then said our goodbyes. About three years later we played a gig and during the break SHE walked up to me, again we had some chemistry ( I wanted to believe ), so she gave me her phone number. One day I was day dreaming of her, so I called and asked her out. She told me she didn't think her boyfriend would like that. She said he played guitar too and told me who he was playing with. I was disappointed and I knew the band she was talking about, and where the Harp player lived. Her boyfriend was living there too she said. Sooooooo, I marched right over there with my old 335 Gibson and was gonna have a duel with this guy just so I could feel "superior" in some way. ( I hate the ego games in the business, it is basically why I quit it ).  I was thinking with another part of my body...it wasn't the brain. We sat down and he invited me to play some. I showed off and then he picked up his guitar and literally blew my mind. I didn't know what he was doing but he played better than anyone local I had heard...his name...Robin Ford!!!!  Man was that a real wake up moment for me. That year he Joined "The LA Express" and he hasn't stopped yet.  Here is Robin playing with Larry.


Thanks for this link!!


----------



## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> Almost decent.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/harpis


When done properly, music should make you smile. This one broke my grin!


----------



## Paco Dennis

George Benson how to practice​


----------



## Keesha

NewRetire18 said:


> When done properly, music should make you smile. This one broke my grin!


Ouch!


----------



## Paco Dennis

Keesha said:


> Ouch!


It's alright Keesha, I don't think he was hurt that bad.


----------



## Keesha

Paco Dennis said:


> It's alright Keesha, I don't think he was hurt that bad.


Neither Do I.


----------



## Irwin

I've finally gotten a decent tone using nothing but amp and cab sims and plugin effects! I can now put all my gear away and just plug my guitar directly into the audio interface! It's taken me years to find the right combination.

I've watched dozens of demos of how to get great tone using amp sims and they all sound like crap. No matter how much they claim it sounds good, it still sounds like crap. Maybe I should make a video.

Note: it's still not as good as the real thing, but hey, what do you want for nuthin'? A rubber biscuit?


----------



## Keesha

Almost decent.


Paco Dennis said:


> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/harpis



Cool!
What’s this track about?
What message are you trying to convey?
Why did you pick the instrumental background that you did?
When did you make this?


----------



## drifter

I’m not a musician but I picked up the harmonica and have been blowing on that little thing for about fifteen years.


----------



## Paco Dennis

I was playing around with arpeggios, and wondered if I could get close to a harp sound that was flowing. I got in the ball park.  
I used plucked strings...it sounds like a fretless base ( can't remember ), It has kind of flowing chord movement, then I added the drum parts, and female voice. 
I was imagining a harp sextet performing this in an experimental orchestra/rock crowd. They loved it. Ha!
I made it in 1999 with a cheap midi guitar pickup, a hacked software synthesizer, and a free midi sequencer called Jazz++ ( program to record your different tracks, and open source code ). Computers were not powerful enough to record audio with the songs yet.
This was all for fun...never thought of selling anything I made. The music I put on MP3.com was always free and anyone could listen or download. I had quit the business...I didn't like it.  I have loads of experimental, off the beaten path stuff...and then I also have made tunes with newer computers that are more conventional.

This part of sharing your music with others always reminds me of this famous commercial. $$$


----------



## Paco Dennis

drifter said:


> I’m not a musician but I picked up the harmonica and have been blowing on that little thing for about fifteen years.


I love the harmonica. Country, blues, even jazz, and classical stuff. Good for you!


----------



## Paco Dennis

Actually that was not the song that I had intended to put on here. I couldn't find it. Just did.

Same 1st answer about the harp and arpeggios, but this is just the harp instrument. 

I had a blast making these songs...they were not intended to be commercial. Think, experimenting...and fun...then maybe you'll understand or not. 

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/track-07


----------



## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> I was playing around with arpeggios, and wondered if I could get close to a harp sound that was flowing. I got in the ball park.
> I used plucked strings...it sounds like a fretless base ( can't remember ), It has kind of flowing chord movement, then I added the drum parts, and female voice.
> I was imagining a harp sextet performing this in an experimental orchestra/rock crowd. They loved it. Ha!
> I made it in 1999 with a cheap midi guitar pickup, a hacked software synthesizer, and a free midi sequencer called Jazz++ ( program to record your different tracks, and open source code ). Computers were not powerful enough to record audio with the songs yet.
> This was all for fun...never thought of selling anything I made. The music I put on MP3.com was always free and anyone could listen or download. I had quit the business...I didn't like it.  I have loads of experimental, off the beaten path stuff...and then I also have made tunes with newer computers that are more conventional.
> 
> This part of sharing your music with others always reminds me of this famous commercial. $$$


I love all music, especially experimental. I played blue grass, folk, rock, blues, jazz and pop professionally for shows, but I can't help but admire people that take bounds just a little bit further. I love everthing from Frank Zappa (he is also an amazing guitarist), Laurie Anderson (O'Superman, lol), and Enja to classical. This hit me just right today. I also love all the standards, perhaps with the exclusion of Polka...Sorry!


----------



## Keesha

Paco Dennis said:


> I was playing around with arpeggios, and wondered if I could get close to a harp sound that was flowing. I got in the ball park.
> I used plucked strings...it sounds like a fretless base ( can't remember ), It has kind of flowing chord movement, then I added the drum parts, and female voice.
> I was imagining a harp sextet performing this in an experimental orchestra/rock crowd. They loved it. Ha!
> I made it in 1999 with a cheap midi guitar pickup, a hacked software synthesizer, and a free midi sequencer called Jazz++ ( program to record your different tracks, and open source code ). Computers were not powerful enough to record audio with the songs yet.
> This was all for fun...never thought of selling anything I made. The music I put on MP3.com was always free and anyone could listen or download. I had quit the business...I didn't like it.  I have loads of experimental, off the beaten path stuff...and then I also have made tunes with newer computers that are more conventional.
> 
> This part of sharing your music with others always reminds me of this famous commercial. $$$


You made this in 1999?
Wow! In that case, you were well ahead of the game. I wondered whether you did work for commercials or background stuff. I listened to it again and couldn’t hear a voice. 
Are those harp sounds you playing the guitar then? How did you learn how to do this?
I hadn’t even been on the internet in 1999 and didn’t know anything about it so it’s very impressive that you learned how to do this. 
How did you learn to do this?
It might not be my style of music but I appreciate your creativity and willingness to explore the unknown. You ventured off the beaten path. I CAN appreciate that and I just re-read your post and noticed that you did have a business. Good for you for following your curiosity.


----------



## Paco Dennis

yep NewRetire18....Ditto!


----------



## Paco Dennis

Keesha...I had some musical training, and read a lot, practiced a lot, played in groups for a very long time, then retired. I was fascinated with computers in 1999. I wrote different kinds of programs using friendly programing language. ( forgot it's name ). There was no internet yet even.
I learned mostly by trial and error/"success". 

  Thanks for the kind words!!!


----------



## Keesha

Paco Dennis said:


> Keesha...I had some musical training, and read a lot, practiced a lot, played in groups for a very long time, then retired. I was fascinated with computers in 1999. I wrote different kinds of programs using friendly programing language. ( forgot it's name ). There was no internet yet even.
> I learned mostly by trial and error/"success".
> 
> Thanks for the kind words!!!


You must have been one of these computer whiz’s cause there wasn’t any type of music software that I ever heard about until at least a decade later. Very cool. Thanks for sharing. Adding a date and some info adds a completely different perspective. I wish I were more computer literate.


----------



## Dana

Paco Dennis said:


> Well I for one appreciate it a lot!!! My Grandson is studying Classical Piano, and I love to see/hear his progress. I love the romantic period composers, and the whole process blows me away...the composer, the skill at playing the instruments, and the awesome product. I have to say though I am not a big fan of opera, mainly because I can't understand the lyrics.


_Glad to hear it..I wish him the very best of luck. I love the romantic period too and am particularly interested in the works of Marianne von Martinez, one of the few female composers of that time. She was based in Vienna was an accomplished composer of oratorios, masses, sacred choral works and secular cantatas, as well as works for orchestra and keyboard. Your Grandson might be interested in listening to her style _


----------



## Dana

NewRetire18 said:


> More than you might expect. I (apparently) borrow as much as I can from any source, and classical music contains the foundations of so much of the popular music that shows up today. Look at Rachmaninoff's influence in popular, and you can find parallels in most other composers as well. While experimenting with MuseScore, I had just composed my first short ditty to get grounded on notation and start back down the path to composing, and see what it can do to help me. Especially to see if tracks can be imported into my DAW. I sent the link to my best friend, and he said it reminded him of Bach!
> 
> Hmm. I'm basically a guitarist. Bach?? How did that stuff get in there???
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ll890aryj22m9wr/RoseWoodDreams.mp3?dl=0


_Funny you mention Bach... a lot of modern day composers "borrow" from him! Had it not been for 15th 16th and 17th century mathematicians finding better ways to calculate the 12th root of two, Bach would not have been able to write so beautifully and successfully in every key. Being able to divide the octave into 12 equal intervals is a work of genius and art_


----------



## Paco Dennis

I put this one on MP3.com also in the "Latin" area. It reached the top 20 and stayed there for a real long time. What I thought people might like they didn't. Taste is always a fascinating sense. It is boundless. Now I am finished sharing for awhile, let's hear some your all's music. 

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/track-12


----------



## Paco Dennis

"2 oratorios; 4 masses; 6 motets; psalm cantatas; secular cantatas; 3 keyboard sonatas, 1 keyboard concerto; and 1 symphony.

Several of her pieces have been published in recent years.  The three keyboard sonatas (in E Major, G Major and* A Major*) are available through Hildegard Publishing.  Many works are also available through Furore-Verlag, a German publisher that specializes in works by women composers.  They offer many first publications, including: the Keyboard Concerto in A; Dixit Dominus for Soli, Choir and Orchestra; In Exitu Israel de Agypto, Psalm for Soli, Choir and Orchestra; Laudate Pueri Dominum, Psalm 112, for SATB choir and orchestra; the Fourth Mass."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianna_Martines

I assume the bold above is this piece? It is absolutely enchanting. Love it and will share it with my Grandson post hast! Thank You.


----------



## Keesha

Paco Dennis said:


> I put this one on MP3.com also in the "Latin" area. It reached the top 20 and stayed there for a real long time. What I thought people might like they didn't. Taste is always a fascinating sense. It is boundless. Now I am finished sharing for awhile, let's hear some your all's music.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/track-12


This song has more of a definite style of genre in my opinion. It sounds very Latin American . 

I like the xylophone and muted trumpet sounds. 
Very good Paco Dennis


----------



## Paco Dennis

Ok, one more thing then I will stop. 
  At some point in our conversations here I thought of
John Mclaughlin mahavishnu Orchestra​




I saw them play at Winterland in SF in 1970. It was packed..over 3000 people....WILD!!!


----------



## tbeltrans

NewRetire18 said:


> More than you might expect. I (apparently) borrow as much as I can from any source, and classical music contains the foundations of so much of the popular music that shows up today. Look at Rachmaninoff's influence in popular, and you can find parallels in most other composers as well. While experimenting with MuseScore, I had just composed my first short ditty to get grounded on notation and start back down the path to composing, and see what it can do to help me. Especially to see if tracks can be imported into my DAW. I sent the link to my best friend, and he said it reminded him of Bach!
> 
> Hmm. I'm basically a guitarist. Bach?? How did that stuff get in there???
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ll890aryj22m9wr/RoseWoodDreams.mp3?dl=0


Interesting music.  Parts of it remind me of a soundtrack for a 1960s spy movie, but then the flute is very melodic.

Tony


----------



## tbeltrans

Paco Dennis said:


> I put this one on MP3.com also in the "Latin" area. It reached the top 20 and stayed there for a real long time. What I thought people might like they didn't. Taste is always a fascinating sense. It is boundless. Now I am finished sharing for awhile, let's hear some your all's music.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/track-12


Definitely has that Latin feel.  It brings to mind pictures of Miami with that urban Latin sensibility to it.

Did you create all these parts manually or did you use one of those arranger type keyboards or software?  Either way, you seem to have a good ear for putting music tracks together.   

I just checked in here and see a lot of messages since I was last in here.  We are preparing to spend the better part of the week in Rochester at the Mayo Clinic for my wife.  Maybe when we get home I can record something on my guitar.  But it may not be this week.  I don't typically record my playing since I do it for my own enjoyment.  I have not played out in a number of years and decided I am not really interested in getting my music out there anymore.  Some years ago I did donate a track to a compilation CD for a forum I was participating in, but that was probably the last time I did anything like that other than a few private youtube videos as part of an email discussion on arranging for solo guitar.  So I don't really have anything to offer right now.

Most folks seem to expect a person with an acoustic guitar to sing.  Personally, there are a lot of folks I have heard that I wish wouldn't do that.  I feel I am doing the world a favor by abstaining since I have no interest in developing my voice which really is another instrument that deserves the respect as a craft that any other instrument deserves.  Anyway, people tend to get bored quickly with solo fingerstyle guitar, so I don't force it on anybody.  Fortunately, I enjoy it for myself and my wife.

Tony


----------



## SetWave

Some guys across the way and up the hill have been playing all day and they sound great. They get together every few weekends. I got to thinking they are probably hurting for gigs these "daze" so they're just letting it all hang out.


----------



## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> Ok, one more thing then I will stop.
> At some point in our conversations here I thought of
> John Mclaughlin mahavishnu Orchestra​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw them play at Winterland in SF in 1970. It was packed..over 3000 people....WILD!!!


He was one of my early idols.


----------



## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> Definitely has that Latin feel.  It brings to mind pictures of Miami with that urban Latin sensibility to it.
> 
> Did you create all these parts manually or did you use one of those arranger type keyboards or software?  Either way, you seem to have a good ear for putting music tracks together.
> 
> I just checked in here and see a lot of messages since I was last in here.  We are preparing to spend the better part of the week in Rochester at the Mayo Clinic for my wife.  Maybe when we get home I can record something on my guitar.  But it may not be this week.  I don't typically record my playing since I do it for my own enjoyment.  I have not played out in a number of years and decided I am not really interested in getting my music out there anymore.  Some years ago I did donate a track to a compilation CD for a forum I was participating in, but that was probably the last time I did anything like that other than a few private youtube videos as part of an email discussion on arranging for solo guitar.  So I don't really have anything to offer right now.
> 
> Most folks seem to expect a person with an acoustic guitar to sing.  Personally, there are a lot of folks I have heard that I wish wouldn't do that.  I feel I am doing the world a favor by abstaining since I have no interest in developing my voice which really is another instrument that deserves the respect as a craft that any other instrument deserves.  Anyway, people tend to get bored quickly with solo fingerstyle guitar, so I don't force it on anybody.  Fortunately, I enjoy it for myself and my wife.
> 
> Tony


Good luck in Rochester! My wishes are for everything going well for you both.
Regarding singing, uh, yeah. My wife thinks my singing is good. Which to me, shows that love is not only blind...it can be a bit deaf, too!!


----------



## Paco Dennis

tbeltrans said:


> Definitely has that Latin feel.  It brings to mind pictures of Miami with that urban Latin sensibility to it.
> 
> Did you create all these parts manually or did you use one of those arranger type keyboards or software?  Either way, you seem to have a good ear for putting music tracks together.
> 
> I just checked in here and see a lot of messages since I was last in here.  We are preparing to spend the better part of the week in Rochester at the Mayo Clinic for my wife.  Maybe when we get home I can record something on my guitar.  But it may not be this week.



On the guitar solo I used a feature in Jazz++ sequencer called "Melody Maker". It has several parameters so you use your math skills and apply them to want your imagining. Sometimes it comes out "believable", other times it sounds very "mechanical." The trumpet solo is manual ( midi guitar ). Listen closely and you can hear double notes occasionally. Back then the pickup and receiver and computer made recording the midi input very glitchy. I got tired of deleting all the glitches sometimes and just left them in. The Vibes are manual. My last pickup running on Win 7 and a fast computer produced hardly any glitches.  I was fascinated by having a computer translate parameters. The first software I used back then was called "Koan". It was a completely a computer generated music program, and quite popular way back when. 

My best to you and your wife.

I sure hope you record something and share it. Audio recording can be done using Windows or Mac built in Recorder, or an Audio software recording program. "Audacity" is free and a very good program for that. By any means I would like to hear from anyone , playing anything, "good or bad" ( I don't pony to that view...music is in everyones heart and is very healthy to express.) I also understand those who would rather not share. The way I look at life now is not the same as when I was middle aged and still was concerned about "my" image. That has almost disappeared now. We deserve the time now to feel free to be spontaneous and compassionate. ( or cantankerous and moody )


----------



## Paco Dennis

Dana said:


> _Yes... I am a musician ... I sing classical music, I am a classical pianist and I play the flute... not a lot of appreciation for that sort of thing on here, I'm afraid_
> .


I sent the video to my Daughter ( Tamara ) to show my Grandson (Arthur 14) here is her reply.

"Oh, that’s so cool!! I will for sure share- for some reason, he just loves that classical!  Thank you for thinking of him."


----------



## OneEyedDiva

NewRetire18 said:


> To be honest, I don't think most musicians should become recording engineers. It's one thing, for example, to sit down and play the ivories and have your ears bathed in wonderful harmonics. It's another thing entirely to assemble all the parts of a piano to make it playable. One path is pure joy, and the other is hard work (which can lead to the death of joy)!! Kudos to your path; you are already well beyond what most people will ever accomplish, and you should be proud that you have attained a level of producing work you like. That to me, is absolutely *huge*.


I absolutely agree with you NewRetire.  You wrote: _"I don't think most musicians should become recording engineers."_ In fact, I was going to mention that exact point in my reply.  
@tbeltrans 
Thank you both *so much* for your wonderful, inspiring remarks


----------



## Keesha

NewRetire18 said:


> To be honest, I don't think most musicians should become recording engineers. It's one thing, for example, to sit down and play the ivories and have your ears bathed in wonderful harmonics. It's another thing entirely to assemble all the parts of a piano to make it playable. One path is pure joy, and the other is hard work (which can lead to the death of joy)!! Kudos to your path; you are already well beyond what most people will ever accomplish, and you should be proud that you have attained a level of producing work you like. That to me, is absolutely *huge*.


This is really well said. It’s something I’d been trying to express yet didn’t. Somehow I Missed it.
Not long ago I was learning to record so I could share my music. It got so frustrating that I wasn’t enjoying playing like I used to so I can certainly relate to this. Then there’s storing stuff in iCloud, remembering passwords etc. I had some nice recording I was quite happy wish which I wish I had shared but didn’t and deleted them since I started getting charged a monthly fee. I’m not computer savvy enough to do the musical software route but am impressed with those who do successfully.


----------



## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> This is really well said. It’s something I’d been trying to express yet didn’t. Somehow I Missed it.
> Not long ago I was learning to record so I could share my music. It got so frustrating that I wasn’t enjoying playing like I used to so I can certainly relate to this. Then there’s storing stuff in iCloud, remembering passwords etc. I had some nice recording I was quite happy wish which I wish I had shared but didn’t and deleted them since I started getting charged a monthly fee. I’m not computer savvy enough to do the musical software route but am impressed with those who do successfully.


This pretty much what I said earlier.  The difference was that I listed some of the skills needed to make a decent recording.

Of course, if you are doing the whole thing using midi and VST instrument plugins, then all the skills involved in using mics to record real instruments don't apply because you can just export directly to MP3.

Most of my interest in music involves playing guitar.  I tried the computer route, but it just didn't feel like making music to me the way playing a real instrument does.

Tony


----------



## NewRetire18

It is probably just me, but I also find a 'problematic' aspect of listening to music which relates to musicians, vs non-musicians. I think deep down, non-musicians tend to listen to music at completely different levels than musicians do. The 'by-ear' part of me tears apart every song I hear, and breaks it down into parts; bass-lines, rhythm sections, leads, instruments, voices and pitches/harmonics, chords, etc. It always has, and I can't seem to stop it. There is definitely a part of me that wishes I could just hear music without analyzing it, but there are only three cases I know of where I can step out of my brain and enjoy. The first is when I am dog tired; the second is when I have had a glass of wine or two, and the third is when I am experiencing some completely new kind of music (experimental music, for example) and I can't guess where the composition is going!. In the last case, I just focus harder on the music and try to make sense out of it. In case two, the wine seems to temper my brain's analytic OCD, and allows music to just flow naturally without trying to anticipate where the next note is going to come from. It's all good, though, and I love being immersed in it.


----------



## Pecos

OneEyedDiva said:


> Here's the SoundCloud link for two of my unreleased songs, copyrighted a couple of decades ago.  Just A Little Timpani, which is Jazzy with a dash of Hip Hop, was done without using the rhythm section, so I'm playing all the instruments and hand claps as well as doing the "scratching". The one sound the Clavinova doesn't do well is tenor sax, so I've asked a sax player friend of mine if he will play on this track for me after he finishes his project. I intend to lengthen the song. This version was not engineered.  I used the rhythm section on Martha's Back!  I am playing the piano, horns, strings and digital choir parts. The song has a Baptist Church Gospel feel.
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/user-63576323
> @Pecos @Keesha @Shalimar @MarciKS @Gaer


I like it a lot.


----------



## Dana

Paco Dennis said:


> I sent the video to my Daughter ( Tamara ) to show my Grandson (Arthur 14) here is her reply.
> 
> "Oh, that’s so cool!! I will for sure share- for some reason, he just loves that classical!  Thank you for thinking of him."



_That’s wonderful Paco Dennis. I am so pleased! This young Viennese pianist Judith Engel, 28 years old and making quite a name for herself in the classical world. Here’s a clip of her playing Marianna’s Sonata in g major. I am trying to learn this piece…it’s been a year now…wish me luck…mind you.. with all the luck in the world it won’t sound like Judith’s performance…_


----------



## Keesha

And I definitely appreciate classical.
I was raised with classical music since my father played Chopin and Mozart on the piano. I’ve done a few operettas in school which consisted of classical music.


tbeltrans said:


> This pretty much what I said earlier.  The difference was that I listed some of the skills needed to make a decent recording.
> 
> Of course, if you are doing the whole thing using midi and VST instrument plugins, then all the skills involved in using mics to record real instruments don't apply because you can just export directly to MP3.
> 
> Most of my interest in music involves playing guitar.  I tried the computer route, but it just didn't feel like making music to me the way playing a real instrument does.
> 
> Tony


The biggest difference is that I’m actually learning to record my saxophone playing, not guitar chords or piano background. I bought an iPad but I didn’t want all my systems synced up together and couldn’t seem to stop it from doing so. Plus I couldn’t find a website to store my songs for free. I don’t want to pay $20 a month to store songs. I’d rather keep them on a personal computer so until I figure all that out I’m not trying anything.


----------



## Paco Dennis

Dana said:


> That’s wonderful Paco Dennis. I am so pleased! This young Viennese pianist Judith Engel, 28 years old and making quite a name for herself in the classical world. Here’s a clip of her playing Marianna’s Sonata in g major. I am trying to learn this piece…it’s been a year now…wish me luck…mind you.. with all the luck in the world it won’t sound like Judith’s performance…


WOW! I loved it.  Both the piece and Judith's ability and grace playing it.

I watched a video recently
Frédéric Chopin: Piano Concerto No. 1 e-minor (Olga Scheps live)

It blew my mind.   I feel like the great female pianists have a slightly deeper sensivity and flowingness to their playing than their male equals. Maybe it is my male love of beauty for the opposite sex. Ha! The beauty of Chopin's composition, the elegance of the orchestra's playing, and the body language of Olga gave me the first impression. Recently I have listened to many female classical pianists and I still like them better than when a male plays the same piece. Go figure.


----------



## Paco Dennis




----------



## Dana

Paco Dennis said:


> WOW! I loved it.  Both the piece and Judith's ability and grace playing it.
> 
> I watched a video recently
> Frédéric Chopin: Piano Concerto No. 1 e-minor (Olga Scheps live)
> 
> It blew my mind.  I feel like the great female pianists have a slightly deeper sensivity and flowingness to their playing than their male equals. Maybe it is my male love of beauty for the opposite sex. Ha! The beauty of Chopin's composition, the elegance of the orchestra's playing, and the body language of Olga gave me the first impression. Recently I have listened to many female classical pianists and I still like them better than when a male plays the same piece. Go figure.



_What can I say... could it be because female pianists are not worried about showing a lot of emotion. Having said that, I have seen some male pianists tear up during their performances...I love that, it shows such affinity with the music.

Fur Elise was the very first piece I learnt as a very young pianist, thanks for the video _


----------



## NewRetire18

Dana said:


> _What can I say... could it be because female pianists are not worried about showing a lot of emotion. Having said that, I have seen some male pianists tear up during their performances...I love that, it shows such affinity with the music.
> 
> Fur Elise was the very first piece I learnt as a very young pianist, thanks for the video _


Haha! Fur Elise was one the first things I learned on guitar, too!!


----------



## Dana

NewRetire18 said:


> Haha! Fur Elise was one the first things I learned on guitar, too!!



 _Snap...my husband plays the guitar both classical and country music....think I'll get him to practice Fur Elise and I'll accompany him on the piano...see what you have done_


----------



## Paco Dennis

NewRetire18 said:


> Haha! Fur Elise was one the first things I learned on guitar, too!!


Coincidence? Chance? Meaningful how/why?

In the past six months I keep bumping into my future, and I see this happening here. I have given a name for this evolutionary leap :

Coincidental Synchronicity


----------



## OneEyedDiva

I just uploaded these unreleased songs. Both were copyrighted in 2000 so they must've been done on the first Clavinova I bought, not the one pictured in this thread. Funky Spacemen was probably the 3rd or 4th song I did after I got my instrument.


__
		https://soundcloud.com/user-63576323%2Ffunky-spacemen
This is Ritmos Karibean...one of my first forays into composing in the Latin genre, which I find to be the easiest.  Latin has always been one of my favorite genres. I will probably add both of these to my next album after they are revised, properly engineered and mastered.


__
		https://soundcloud.com/user-63576323%2Fritmos-karibean-original-version
@Pecos


----------



## Pecos

OneEyedDiva said:


> I just uploaded these unreleased songs. Both were copyrighted in 2000 so they must've been done on the first Clavinova I bought, not the one pictured in this thread. Funky Spacemen was probably the 3rd or 4th song I did after I got my instrument.
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/user-63576323%2Ffunky-spacemen
> This is Ritmos Karibean...one of my first forays into composing in the Latin genre, which I find to be the easiest.  Latin has always been one of my favorite genres. I will probably add both of these to my next album after they are revised, properly engineered and mastered.
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/user-63576323%2Fritmos-karibean-original-version
> @Pecos


Those are wonderful songs and will work nicely in your next album, especially after your talented son works his magic.
I have to admit that I have always been particularly fond of the Latin Genre and Ritmos Karibean gets me wiggling in my chair. Thanks for cutting us in on your extraordinary talented works.


----------



## OneEyedDiva

Pecos said:


> Those are wonderful songs and will work nicely in your next album, especially after your talented son works his magic.
> I have to admit that I have always been particularly fond of the Latin Genre and Ritmos Karibean gets me wiggling in my chair. Thanks for cutting us in on your extraordinary talented works.


You are so welcome. I'm very glad you enjoy my music Yes, my son is going to have to put these tracks into Logic which gives more flexibility with editing. He's learned how to add the tracks individually straight from the instrument. I'd *love* to get my sax playing friend (you know who) to play the sax tracks on these.


----------



## Keesha

OneEyedDiva said:


> You are so welcome. I'm very glad you enjoy my music I'd love to get my sax playing friend (you know who) to play the sax track on Funky Spacemen.


Cool recordings OneEyedDiva!
Are you going to add sax to this?
Even better.


----------



## OneEyedDiva

Keesha said:


> Cool recordings OneEyedDiva!
> Are you going to add sax to this?
> Even better.


Thank you Keesha. After you replied to my quoted post, I changed it to sax for both tracks. As I explained earlier in this thread, the sounds for most instrument voices on my digital piano great but the saxophone voice is lacking. Both tracks require saxophone so yes, I'm hoping my busy friend will be able to play on these tracks. I have at least two more I'd like him to work on, which he agreed to do but he's got to finish his own recording/video project first plus he's gigging.


----------



## Keesha

OneEyedDiva said:


> Thank you Keesha. After you replied to my quoted post, I changed it to sax for both tracks. As I explained earlier in this thread, the sounds for most instrument voices on my digital piano great but the saxophone voice is lacking. Both tracks require saxophone so yes, I'm hoping my busy friend will be able to play on these tracks. I have at least two more I'd like him to work on, which he agreed to do but he's got to finish his own recording/video project first plus he's gigging.


Cool. Which sax does he play?
Tenor?
I think the addition of saxophone would be very nice and make your music more multidimensional.

Note: I’d forgotten I asked. I’m terribly cheeky aren’t I? Lol. Thank you for so much for considering it. It will make a great mix.


----------



## Paco Dennis

Pecos said:


> Those are wonderful songs and will work nicely in your next album, especially after your talented son works his magic.
> I have to admit that I have always been particularly fond of the Latin Genre and Ritmos Karibean gets me wiggling in my chair. Thanks for cutting us in on your extraordinary talented works.


Double Ditto on that. You had me dancin'! Love them, and thanks for sharing!!


----------



## NewRetire18

OneEyedDiva said:


> I just uploaded these unreleased songs. Both were copyrighted in 2000 so they must've been done on the first Clavinova I bought, not the one pictured in this thread. Funky Spacemen was probably the 3rd or 4th song I did after I got my instrument.
> 
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/user-63576323%2Ffunky-spacemen
> This is Ritmos Karibean...one of my first forays into composing in the Latin genre, which I find to be the easiest.  Latin has always been one of my favorite genres. I will probably add both of these to my next album after they are revised, properly engineered and mastered.
> 
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/user-63576323%2Fritmos-karibean-original-version
> @Pecos


Yup; like em! I am leaving for New Mexico from Michigan in 2 hours to go pickup a new guitar. I was bringing my old headphones on the trip to use to practice an existing guitar in hotel rooms as I travel, but realized I can be listening to these songs when I stop on the road. Now I am taking my good 'phones instead...!
Keep em' coming, everybody!!


----------



## Pepper

@OneEyedDiva 
*WOW!*


----------



## Keesha

I’d forgotten that I’d written that Diva . When I wrote that I was more being cheeky than anything but I’m really impressed that you took my suggestion seriously. I sincerely think adding a saxophone will make a great mix and can’t wait to hear it. Totally awesome. I’m actually very impressed.


----------



## Keesha

If your friend doesn’t come through, I will offer to do it. I play soprano and alto and am an experienced player.


----------



## Paco Dennis

The Doomer Blues

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/DDD.mp3


----------



## Irwin

Paco Dennis said:


> The Doomer Blues
> 
> http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/DDD.mp3


Nice jam, Paco!


----------



## Paco Dennis

I hope I didn't scare everyone off with that last song.  

Thought I would share a musical "project". In 2000 I found a program to input my midi guitar called "Reason". You could save the files in a way you could email someone else the file. It would open in Reason and then they could add parts to the song. I met a man named Luciano from Italy on a file sharing website. We ended up making 9 cd's. 

https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=538900&content=songs


----------



## Paco Dennis

I started this forum with the intention of people here that play, have played, want to play, or not to converse about their experience and share it IF they could. After I witnessed Sheryl Crow go from a very good singer in a rockin' roll band, "Cashmere" in 1985 (I played with them for 6 months) to a music industry millionaire maker in 1993 , I lost interest in all things "popular". 
  I had finally made the commitment to join a collective intentional community that lived almost off grid. I had had enough of the "American Dream" (google George Carlin on Youtube about that)  From then until today I love and understand popular music, but I create (on purpose) protest music against the music industries products. I understand and enjoy a lot of independent music now that you can start your own show/label/Youtube music business. My goal is to get all the money out of sharing music. 90% of the time the $$$ leads to suffering unnecessarily with ego's fighting about what they are going to wear!! Or flat out being told what to wear and what to play. (Different for studio work...but still $$$) 
 I helped form a sort of rebellious bunch to create a group called S.R.E. Here is a song I sang, a rendition of "Eve of Destruction" live at practice. We never planned stuff except sharing the chords. The songs were improvised by all of us. Tempo and style changes were improvised.

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/eve-of-destruction

When I was listening to NPR back then there was a music industry executive talking about the future of internet music. I emailed "Ko-Jo" (the host) " What do you think of the future of music sharing websites like mp3.com where amateurs share their music and sometimes make a little money doing so?" He says that won't go anywhere, and that internet radio would be the new thing. I taped Ko-Jo reading my question on the air and then made this song.

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/kojo-speaks

I love the road less traveled, and even wander off it.  Explore where no human has gone! Here is a "song" from last stuff I was experimenting with.  

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/13402226

Just to save your time, here is a heads up. If you click on hearing one of my songs it most likely will be "either way/ some/a little" off the beaten path.


----------



## Keesha

You are one of the most versatile musicians I’ve ever met. Your styles vary so extensively. 
Your voice is almost Alice Cooperish and some of your music would be perfect for movies, in my opinion. You certainly think outside the box Paco. It’s different.


----------



## RadishRose

Yes, different and fun.


----------



## Keesha

RadishRose said:


> Yes, different and fun.


Absolutely.


----------



## Paco Dennis

A Little Funk then....Yea! 

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/13409788


----------



## Paco Dennis

The Unknown

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/13409893


----------



## OneEyedDiva

Keesha said:


> If your friend doesn’t come through, I will offer to do it. I play soprano and alto and am an experienced player.


To answer all your questions...my friend plays tenor, alto and soprano sax. He recently played all three at the same time. LOL  Someone at his last show asked him to do it. He sent me the photo that was taken. Actually, I took your suggestion before you suggested it.  I had asked him about playing on my tracks a few months ago and sent him the songs. He loved them, says we can come to his studio but he's got to finish his projects first.  I can understand that.

If you're serious...I think it would be great if we could work on music together! What program would you use to record the track(s) and how would you send the it (them) to me? If we decide to proceed, we'll work out the details via PMs. I know this is possible using digital programs but I checked with my son before replying to you just to make sure he can do what needs to be done with your track(s). I have a good friend who works that way all the time (she uses Cuebass) using her awesomely talented friends and her songs sound great. In fact, she's asked me to work on one of her projects in the near future. Thank you for your interest and your lovely comments about my music


----------



## OneEyedDiva

@Paco Dennis ...This has turned out to be such an interesting, informative thread! There’s so much to read about and learn here and I’m just getting a chance to really take it all in. Where are you in the Pentazz videos? You guys sound great! Sea Journey...WOW!
I admire you professional musicians (@NewRetire18 , @tbeltrans , @Keesha ) who have performed. I never wanted to...only played for the church for a short time and didn’t like it, made me too nervous. I bet each of you has some great stories about being on the road. And bless you NewRetiree for “Paying it forward” to other musicians.

@SetWave How come some of your instruments are “going away”?


----------



## Keesha

That’s really cool that you reached out to him. There’s nothing quite like musicians collaborating together and sharing different ideas and styles. That’s also cool that he plays all three saxophones. The soprano and tenor are both Bb instruments where the alto is an Eb. I’ve only just had my 1953 alto refurbished so would like to commit to something that involves others so I push myself more.

 My biggest frustration will be computer related. While I can play just about anything, what I don’t know how to do is digital stuff. I have little experience but the results I got with what I did turned out nice.

I don’t have a computer. What I’ve got is an iPhone which has garage band. I used an iPad to do the recordings I did but I took it back.  I need to get a computer of some kind and if it’s a simple upload from one computer to another, I can do that. What I did have when I recorded was some microphone software which worked really well. I recorded both sax and vocals. It worked well. I’d like to try it again.

It’s going to take me a while to learn enough digital stuff to be able to join you two but I’d be honoured to. I’ll pm you from here on about it.

I’ll pm you from here on


----------



## SetWave

OneEyedDiva said:


> SetWave, How come some of your instruments are “going away”?


Actually, I can't even bring along the one go-to guitar I thought would be accompanying me on my wild adventure. I'm splittin' the scene, Daddy-O and my son will continue the jam. I'll look for another guitar once I'm settled in far off lands . . .


----------



## Keesha

For the record, I’ve never been an  ‘on the road’ musician. All our gigs were in the general Toronto area.(weddings, grand openings, dances etc)


----------



## OneEyedDiva

Keesha said:


> That’s really cool that you reached out to him. There’s nothing quite like musicians collaborating together and sharing different ideas and styles. That’s also cool that he plays all three saxophones. The soprano and tenor are both Bb instruments where the alto is an Eb. I’ve only just had my 1953 alto refurbished so would like to commit to something that involves others so I push myself more.
> 
> My biggest frustration will be computer related. While I can play just about anything, what I don’t know how to do is digital stuff. I have little experience but the results I got with what I did turned out nice.
> 
> I don’t have a computer. What I’ve got is an iPhone which has garage band. I used an iPad to do the recordings I did but I took it back.  I need to get a computer of some kind and if it’s a simple upload from one computer to another, I can do that. What I did have when I recorded was some microphone software which worked really well. I recorded both sax and vocals. It worked well. I’d like to try it again.
> 
> It’s going to take me a while to learn enough digital stuff to be able to join you two but I’d be honoured to. I’ll pm you from here on about it.
> 
> I’ll pm you from here on


"It’s going to take me a while to learn enough digital stuff to be able to join you two but I’d be honoured to." Well actually I wouldn't use both of you on the same song(s). I'm amazed that you've used Garage Band on yout phone. My son has been in talks with my honorary son (HS)...his BFF, about sending us bass tracks. My HS doesn't have Logic or Garage Band. I forgot the name of the program but my son walked him through how to use it. My HS only has a laptop, not a desktop. If there's a way for you to do it, my son would know.

BTW...doesn't matter that you weren't a touring musician. You played in front of people.  You gigged! You entertained folks....awesome!


----------



## OneEyedDiva

@Paco Dennis @Pepper @NewRetire18 Thank you for your nice feedback on my songs  So glad you liked them.

Still have more to read in this thread so no doubt I'll have more comments for you very talented musicians.


----------



## Paco Dennis

A Short Life Span     featuring Tom (A computer singer.) 

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/peeches-and-leeches


----------



## SetWave

I was surprised years ago reading that symphony musicians are just gig workers traveling from town to town looking for work.  I thought once ya had a chair you were set. So, it's constantly auditioning.


----------



## NewRetire18

Keesha said:


> That’s really cool that you reached out to him. There’s nothing quite like musicians collaborating together and sharing different ideas and styles. That’s also cool that he plays all three saxophones. The soprano and tenor are both Bb instruments where the alto is an Eb. I’ve only just had my 1953 alto refurbished so would like to commit to something that involves others so I push myself more.
> 
> My biggest frustration will be computer related. While I can play just about anything, what I don’t know how to do is digital stuff. I have little experience but the results I got with what I did turned out nice.
> 
> I don’t have a computer. What I’ve got is an iPhone which has garage band. I used an iPad to do the recordings I did but I took it back.  I need to get a computer of some kind and if it’s a simple upload from one computer to another, I can do that. What I did have when I recorded was some microphone software which worked really well. I recorded both sax and vocals. It worked well. I’d like to try it again.
> 
> It’s going to take me a while to learn enough digital stuff to be able to join you two but I’d be honoured to. I’ll pm you from here on about it.
> 
> I’ll pm you from here on


You are exactly the kind of musician I am trying to reach in my little corner of the world. Too many people get frustrated by the digital side of the music, and I am full in on this aspect. I want to see people reach new plateaus, even if they don't ever do it professionally. Money is a huge obstacle for those who want to 'shine', lol. My (besides being the studio engineer for mixing/mastering) niche will also be to be a free studio guitarist/bass player for those that want to demo their skills and can't afford studio time, or to even send a beautiful interactive Christmas Card to loved ones. It's all music to me. And for the 'record' (pun intended), when I was a union guitarist, I made $125/hr. Decades ago. That didn't include studio engineer, bassist, drummers, etc.... I may be donating time/effort to a strange niche considering how many people don't have work, or are homeless, but I can't fix everything. I wish I had the resources of Bezos...maybe I could try. But for now, handing a burgeoning singer/musician an edited MP3 of their work will have to do.

I'm in Amarillo now...guitar is one days drive off!!!! When my best friend said "..you're gonna drive 1800 miles to pick this up? I can ship it to you for $60!! Yeah, but I wouldn't be able to hug him and the luthier. They will just have to live with it!


----------



## Keesha

Trust me, getting frustrated with the digital side of recording is a huge understatement with ke. I’m wondering if my offer to OneEyedDeva is like biting off more than I can chew at the moment. I have to actually really think about why I want to do this and I think it’s all just from my ego.

I made a promise to myself that in this chapter of my life, I was going to give back more by playing and singing for as many nursing homes as I can and paint for charity from photos taken.

Last year I purchased an iPad but took it back because it kept syncing up with my iphones and causing all kinds of chaos and the amount of time it took for me to learn this stuff was outrageous and to be brutally honest, not all that enjoyable. One thing I did enjoy though , was playing background music to songs I liked. I’d love to create my own music backgrounds library but at the moment I still can’t purchase a computer due to lockdown.

OneEyedDiva! I’ve ‘tried’ to use garage band on my iPhone but it’s too small so got an iPad.
I may have bitten off more than I can chew at the moment. There’s definitely a learning curve to understanding digital recording and I’ll have to figure out if I can do it. Right now I certainly don’t have the equipment to start but hopefully will with some time.


----------



## OneEyedDiva

Packerjohn said:


> I have read many books on musicians over the years and have come to the conclusion that road life is far from glamorous.  It's hard work!  Another night another town, over and over and over.  Guess that is why some "stars" have set up in places like Las Vegas or Branson, Missouri; just to have some sort of more "normal" life.


So true John. My BFF tours and I used to "envy" her (not jealous envy though). But I learned from her experiences that it can be quite tiring and sometimes aggravating. I used to wish I could be a performing, touring musician but no more.


----------



## Keesha

OneEyedDiva said:


> So true John. My BFF tours and I used to "envy" her (not jealous envy though). But I learned from her experiences that it can be quite tiring and sometimes aggravating. I used to wish I could be a performing, touring musician but no more.


It’s not something I’ve ever yearned to do either.
In my opinion, there are more cons than pros but that’s just me. I was happy that the gigs we got were well spaced out. That touring with a group of people was never my cup of tea. I went to many concerts with lots of people but that’s different cause you get to leave. I personally think touring with a group was glorified by the media.


----------



## NewRetire18

OneEyedDiva said:


> So true John. My BFF tours and I used to "envy" her (not jealous envy though). But I learned from her experiences that it can be quite tiring and sometimes aggravating. I used to wish I could be a performing, touring musician but no more.


I lost my first marriage because of it. She couldn't handle life on the road, but ironically, being a musician is what attracted me to her in the first place. Once I tried to give up the life as a musician, and become an engineer, she couldn't handle the hours I spent in school studying for the degree. I had a choice to make, and she didn't make the cut. Neither did music at the time, but what goes around, comes around. I'm in it for the long haul now, and my current wife *wants* to learn how to do recording. Looks like I chose correctly the second time around...life is funny that way.


----------



## Paco Dennis

OneEyedDiva said:


> Where are you in the Pentazz videos?


The Hendrix medley I am far left in the short pants. I was 33 then.  On Sea Journey I am playing electric guitar also.


----------



## tbeltrans

There has been a lot of discussion on this thread since I was last around here.  I have some serious catching up to do, listening to all the music that has been linked, reading comments, and just getting up to speed in general.  Clearly, there are as many approaches to, and styles of music being created, as there are creative folks in this thread.  That is great and music is something that can be discussed without all the friction seen in some of the other threads.  That is what music is all about - a way of communicating with each other in ways that words alone just can't convey (though lyrics certainly do carry a message, but the music provides the spark to light up those words).

I will probably play something in the next week to post here.  I got a free account on soundcloud so I can post a few MP3s.  My stuff won't be nearly as intricate or involved as some of what I have heard here so far.  For me it is just me and my acoustic guitar.   

Tony


----------



## NewRetire18

tbeltrans said:


> There has been a lot of discussion on this thread since I was last around here.  I have some serious catching up to do, listening to all the music that has been linked, reading comments, and just getting up to speed in general.  Clearly, there are as many approaches to, and styles of music being created, as there are creative folks in this thread.  That is great and music is something that can be discussed without all the friction seen in some of the other threads.  That is what music is all about - a way of communicating with each other in ways that words alone just can't convey (though lyrics certainly do carry a message, but the music provides the spark to light up those words).
> 
> I will probably play something in the next week to post here.  I got a free account on soundcloud so I can post a few MP3s.  My stuff won't be nearly as intricate or involved as some of what I have heard here so far.  For me it is just me and my acoustic guitar.
> 
> Tony


It doesn't get better than that!!!


----------



## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> There has been a lot of discussion on this thread since I was last around here.  I have some serious catching up to do, listening to all the music that has been linked, reading comments, and just getting up to speed in general.  Clearly, there are as many approaches to, and styles of music being created, as there are creative folks in this thread.  That is great and music is something that can be discussed without all the friction seen in some of the other threads.  That is what music is all about - a way of communicating with each other in ways that words alone just can't convey (though lyrics certainly do carry a message, but the music provides the spark to light up those words).
> 
> I will probably play something in the next week to post here.  I got a free account on soundcloud so I can post a few MP3s.  My stuff won't be nearly as intricate or involved as some of what I have heard here so far.  For me it is just me and my acoustic guitar.
> 
> Tony


Do you sing too?
I love guitar. It’s probably my favourite instrument. Listening to vocals accompanied by an acoustic guitar is so nice. Simple piano is a close second for me. I appreciate the simplicity of it.


----------



## Paco Dennis

"Good Times Roll" l recorded with Windows XP.

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/goodtimes


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## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> Do you sing too?
> I love guitar. It’s probably my favourite instrument. Listening to vocals accompanied by an acoustic guitar is so nice. Simple piano is a close second for me. I appreciate the simplicity of it.


You hit on the one frustration I have with guitar as my main instrument.  When folks see me with a guitar, that is the first question they will ask - do you sing?  When they find out I don't, but instead play instrumental fingerstyle, any interest is lost.  This is why I play for my own enjoyment.

For some reason, piano players are not expected to sing even though there are fine examples of those who do.  It seems perfectly acceptable for a piano player to play instrumental music, but not guitar players except those who play classical guitar.

When arranging pop tunes for solo instrumental acoustic guitar, I can get rid of all the pounding and bellowing and find some really nice melodies to bring out.  That is what interests me most.  I have discovered many tunes from the 1960s and 1970s, for example, that are actually well written songs once you get rid of all that pounding and bellowing.  Older tunes from the early 50s and back from there in time, vocalists were generally much better prepared to sing with pleasing voices.  But back then, there were folks who wrote the tunes, others who wrote the music, and then the performers.  It was a collaboration of people collectively, each very skilled in an area of making the music come alive.

I have never been interested in singing, and honestly, wish many more who do sing, felt as I do.  The human voice is an instrument when used for singing, and so many choose instead to just bellow with no consideration for learning to use their voice in a pleasing way.  Mainstream media is full of examples and I can't understand why more people don't express similar sentiment.

There are those who seem to have naturally pleasing voices, but too many who simply don't.

Anyway, no, I don't sing.  Now that I know this expectation exists here too, I will probably simply sit this one out.  I do appreciate your asking and none of this is directed at you.  Instead, I am voicing the frustration I have experienced over the years with this issue.  When I played in bands, I played guitar and foot pedal bass with my feet, and others covered singing.  In the trio I worked in full time, the band leader spent many weeks into months, teaching the drummer to sing instead of bellowing as so many pop singers do.  The drummer turned into quite a decent sounding singer, but it took a lot of well placed effort on his part.  The same band leader also taught the drummer how to not pound on the drummers as so much pop music does, but instead to actually play them as an instrument.

Tony


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## Irwin

Paco Dennis said:


> "Good Times Roll" l recorded with Windows XP.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/goodtimes


Cool! You rock, dude! Great jam!  

Which version of _Come On_ was your inspiration? There was the original by Earl King, then Hendrix's, and the great version by SRV... probably a few others.


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## Paco Dennis

Irwin said:


> Cool! You rock, dude! Great jam!
> 
> Which version of _Come On_ was your inspiration? There was the original by Earl King, then Hendrix's, and the great version by SRV... probably a few others.


Thank You. 

It was Jimi H.


----------



## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> You hit on the one frustration I have with guitar as my main instrument.  When folks see me with a guitar, that is the first question they will ask - do you sing?  When they find out I don't, but instead play instrumental fingerstyle, any interest is lost.  This is why I play for my own enjoyment.
> 
> For some reason, piano players are not expected to sing even though there are fine examples of those who do.  It seems perfectly acceptable for a piano player to play instrumental music, but not guitar players except those who play classical guitar.
> 
> When arranging pop tunes for solo instrumental acoustic guitar, I can get rid of all the pounding and bellowing and find some really nice melodies to bring out.  That is what interests me most.  I have discovered many tunes from the 1960s and 1970s, for example, that are actually well written songs once you get rid of all that pounding and bellowing.  Older tunes from the early 50s and back from there in time, vocalists were generally much better prepared to sing with pleasing voices.  But back then, there were folks who wrote the tunes, others who wrote the music, and then the performers.  It was a collaboration of people collectively, each very skilled in an area of making the music come alive.
> 
> I have never been interested in singing, and honestly, wish many more who do sing, felt as I do.  The human voice is an instrument when used for singing, and so many choose instead to just bellow with no consideration for learning to use their voice in a pleasing way.  Mainstream media is full of examples and I can't understand why more people don't express similar sentiment.
> 
> There are those who seem to have naturally pleasing voices, but too many who simply don't.
> 
> Anyway, no, I don't sing.  Now that I know this expectation exists here too, I will probably simply sit this one out.  I do appreciate your asking and none of this is directed at you.  Instead, I am voicing the frustration I have experienced over the years with this issue.  When I played in bands, I played guitar and foot pedal bass with my feet, and others covered singing.  In the trio I worked in full time, the band leader spent many weeks into months, teaching the drummer to sing instead of bellowing as so many pop singers do.  The drummer turned into quite a decent sounding singer, but it took a lot of well placed effort on his part.  The same band leader also taught the drummer how to not pound on the drummers as so much pop music does, but instead to actually play them as an instrument.
> 
> Tony


Actually I love classical guitar as is. The only reason I asked about vocals also is because I’m a vocalist and I wish I could play guitar to accompany my singing but never learned it. This doesn’t mean I don’t have an appreciation for other types of playing. Classic guitar is impressive. Most people only learn chords on guitar which is perhaps why they choose to sing the melody instead of playing it. Sorry I ignited your musical pet peeve.  I was merely showing interest.


----------



## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> Actually I love classical guitar as is. The only reason I asked about vocals also is because I’m a vocalist and I wish I could play guitar to accompany my singing but never learned it. This doesn’t mean I don’t have an appreciation for other types of playing. Classic guitar is impressive. Most people only learn chords on guitar which is perhaps why they choose to sing the melody instead of playing it. Sorry I ignited your musical pet peeve.  I was merely showing interest.


Keesha,

You could easily learn enough guitar to accompany yourself.  The hardest part in the beginning would probably be developing calluses so your fingertips don't hurt.  If you play a nylon string (classical) guitar, that will be much easier on your fingers.  

You had no idea this was my musical pet peeve, which is why I tried to make clear in my post that my response wasn't directed at you.  Instead, I took the opportunity to express a common frustration among those who do want to perform in this style.  It is a common complaint among those who play instrumental guitar.  Chet Atkins did well because he usually played and recorded with a band.  He made two solo albums and I would not be at all surprised if his only customers for those records were me and a couple of other guitar players.   Those albums are rarely, if ever, even listed in his discography.

Andres Segovia and some of his students were able to carve out a living in the classical world, but none were ever any sort of competition to mainstream classical music.  Classical guitar is a discipline, not much different than the discipline of martial arts where every movement your body makes is very structured and carefully thought out.  I just could not make myself do that because, as much as I like music, I do have other things in my life.  I did adapt much classical guitar technique though.

Tony


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## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> Keesha,
> 
> You could easily learn enough guitar to accompany yourself.  The hardest part in the beginning would probably be developing calluses so your fingertips don't hurt.  If you play a nylon string (classical) guitar, that will be much easier on your fingers.
> 
> You had no idea this was my musical pet peeve, which is why I tried to make clear in my post that my response wasn't directed at you.  Instead, I took the opportunity to express a common frustration among those who do want to perform in this style.  It is a common complaint among those who play instrumental guitar.  Chet Atkins did well because he usually played and recorded with a band.  He made two solo albums and I would not be at all surprised if his only customers for those records were me and a couple of other guitar players.   Those albums are rarely, if ever, even listed in his discography.
> 
> Andres Segovia and some of his students were able to carve out a living in the classical world, but none were ever any sort of competition to mainstream classical music.  Classical guitar is a discipline, not much different than the discipline of martial arts where every movement your body makes is very structured and carefully thought out.  I just could not make myself do that because, as much as I like music, I do have other things in my life.  I did adapt much classical guitar technique though.
> 
> Tony


No worries. I actually didn’t take it personally AND sort of understood where you were coming from. The classical guitarists that I have known, have all been incredibly good players. You have to be in order to play classical.

Plus I don’t think your pet peeve is that unusual.
I’d say a lot of serious instrumentalists aren’t that fond of vocalists. Vocalists get most of the attention in most bands and are often the least formally trained or educated. I’ve heard it from all sides.

I’ve had the privilege of knowing some really good guitar players. I have tried guitar and prefer piano. It’s not as painful and I don’t have to develop calluses in order to play but pianos aren’t as easy to carry around as guitars. Lol


----------



## tbeltrans

Keesha said:


> No worries. I actually didn’t take it personally AND sort of understood where you were coming from. The classical guitarists that I have known, have all been incredibly good players. You have to be in order to play classical.
> 
> Plus I don’t think your pet peeve is that unusual.
> I’d say a lot of serious instrumentalists aren’t that fond of vocalists. Vocalists get most of the attention in most bands and are often the least formally trained or educated. I’ve heard it from all sides.
> 
> I’ve had the privilege of knowing some really good guitar players. I have tried guitar and prefer piano. It’s not as painful and I don’t have to develop calluses in order to play but pianos aren’t as easy to carry around as guitars. Lol


In the past, many of the "old school" jazz players of all instruments played piano.  I don't know if that is true today, but wouldn't be surprised.  I even have a CD of Stephane Grappelli (the jazz violinist of the Hot Club of France with Django Reinhardt) playing solo piano.  The title of the CD is "My Other Love".

The piano is often said to be the "mother of all instruments".  Music theory is taught in relation to the piano keyboard.  A solo pianist is well received by the general public, where many other instruments simply are not.  Though I have taught myself to play piano, the guitar will always be my first instrument.  That seems to be typical of instrumentalists whose main instrument is not the piano.

I don't have anything against vocalists, but those whose voices are irritating, I don't care to listen to.  All too many pop musicians, especially in rock bands, have terribly raspy voices or simply outright just scream.  I don't get it, but obviously a lot of people love that stuff.

Edit: It would be a disservice to those here who have seriously and formally studied an instrument, whether it be the voice, piano, guitar, or whatever instrument of choice for me to imply that I have done that.  I taught myself both guitar and piano.  Playing professionally as a sideman in a trio or other setting as I have, does not require the kind of skill that, say a world class solo guitar or pianist possesses.  I enjoy playing music and learn what I need to know to play the music that pleases me.  When I took the job in that trio, I did it because I needed a job and that was what was available at the time.  I had the skills necessary for that position, ability to read music and charts, ability to hear, etc.  I do the same with piano except that I have made it a point to rely on my ear more than sheet music by choice, though I can read I have not develop the skills to be a sight reader (i.e. read in real time as good sight readers do).  I believe that anyone can make music if s/he so chooses.  It is a part of being human, and there is no requirement to develop "world class" skills to do so.

Tony


----------



## Paco Dennis

Lyrics by a friend. I experiment with echo and harmonies in the solo.

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/thank-u4-the-tea


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## Keesha

tbeltrans said:


> In the past, many of the "old school" jazz players of all instruments played piano.  I don't know if that is true today, but wouldn't be surprised.  I even have a CD of Stephane Grappelli (the jazz violinist of the Hot Club of France with Django Reinhardt) playing solo piano.  The title of the CD is "My Other Love".
> 
> The piano is often said to be the "mother of all instruments".  Music theory is taught in relation to the piano keyboard.  A solo pianist is well received by the general public, where many other instruments simply are not.  Though I have taught myself to play piano, the guitar will always be my first instrument.  That seems to be typical of instrumentalists whose main instrument is not the piano.
> 
> I don't have anything against vocalists, but those whose voices are irritating, I don't care to listen to.  All too many pop musicians, especially in rock bands, have terribly raspy voices or simply outright just scream.  I don't get it, but obviously a lot of people love that stuff.
> 
> Edit: It would be a disservice to those here who have seriously and formally studied an instrument, whether it be the voice, piano, guitar, or whatever instrument of choice for me to imply that I have done that.  I taught myself both guitar and piano.  Playing professionally as a sideman in a trio or other setting as I have, does not require the kind of skill that, say a world class solo guitar or pianist possesses.  I enjoy playing music and learn what I need to know to play the music that pleases me.  When I took the job in that trio, I did it because I needed a job and that was what was available at the time.  I had the skills necessary for that position, ability to read music and charts, ability to hear, etc.  I do the same with piano except that I have made it a point to rely on my ear more than sheet music by choice, though I can read I have not develop the skills to be a sight reader (i.e. read in real time as good sight readers do).  I believe that anyone can make music if s/he so chooses.  It is a part of being human, and there is no requirement to develop "world class" skills to do so.
> 
> Tony


The piano could definitely be considered the mother of all instruments and a master teacher. It teaches both the treble and bass clefs as well as melodies verses accompaniment. Chords are easily taught on a piano since all the keys in each chord can be seen and heard.

Not all vocalists are good but not all musicians are good which needs to include vocalists. True.

I play for personal enjoyment also but also play for old folks in nursing homes. It gives  me enormous pleasure playing for them. They are so grateful and make great audience members.

Site reading : I couldn’t site read for piano either. I might be able to sight read treble clef, which would be the melody but not with the bass clef. No way. Site reading for saxophone I could do but for the last 2 plus years I’m basically improvising everything. I decide on a song I like and pick a key I’d like to play it in and I figure the rest out on my own. It’s far more enjoyable than site reading in my opinion.


----------



## Paco Dennis

Original : "Suzy's Axe"

Windows XP...Jazz++..."Fruity Loops" for drums, Bass, and rhythm guitar and horns. Live...rhythm guitar, voice, and lead guitar.
Concept : What James Brown would do with the traditional "Oh Susanna". Experiment with a "backwards" solo.

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/suzys-axe


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## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> WOW!.....I played with a band that toured in a band from Texas. We were a "show" group. The leader had been 2nd chair trumpet in Stan Kenton's Band. We did shows with a dancer/singer/flood lights/a few costume changes each of the 2 sets per night. I had a white tuxedo with New York spats and hat. Ha! We played around there and on the East Coast...Atlantic City's Playboy Club, etc.... Room and board and about $400 a week. I had some offers for studio work and some popular bands, but decided to quit the road and come home where my 2 kids were living. About 2 years before Sheryl Crow became famous I played in a four piece with her. A lot of Frats and Sororities...great $.  I gave Deke Dickerson a few lessons and he took off running and is still at it. Very unique and gifted guy. He has several songs on Youtube, just search his name to hear. I then moved into an intentional community and gave up the business end.
> 
> Exciting about your personal custom...send us picture when you feel like it.   Great plan for your new studio, too.
> 
> Would love hear any stuff you played on....  links?
> 
> I am going ask if there is a way to upload mp3 songs to this forum. It would be a fun addition.


Well, I picked up my guitar, and was delighted to meet, and play with the group. This has been a great trip, and one of many to come. We hit it off, and there are some other cool things in the works, now. It has a fast neck, and is the quickest of my lot so far.

Here is my travel setup, in my room in Boulder (I am on my way back home). I didn't have an amp that was decent for travel, so stopped and picked up the little fender, and a looper pedel. It has headphone jack, so I won't keep the neighbors up. This setup is a blast!


----------



## Paco Dennis

@NewRetire18 

  Looks great. No reverb? LOL What is the model/make of the guitar?  Is that your new custom built you picked up?

  I have a
Greg Bennett-Designed USA Series Royale​
It was as close to a Gibson 335 as I could find locally. Here is backtrack I played to...It is as close to George Benson as I can play too.  I learned most of my chops playing around with the minor pentatonic scale. I picked up various "tricks" along the way.

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/13555127


----------



## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> @NewRetire18
> 
> Looks great. No reverb? LOL What is the model/make of the guitar?  Is that your new custom built you picked up?
> 
> I have a
> Greg Bennett-Designed USA Series Royale​View attachment 165736
> It was as close to a Gibson 335 as I could find locally. Here is backtrack I played to...It is as close to George Benson as I can play too.  I learned most of my chops playing around with the minor pentatonic scale. I picked up various "tricks" along the way.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/13555127


Reverb is at home, lol! Yes, that was the guitar. It is made by a Doc Welby, of Welby guitars. He makes some really nice instruments. He is working on a beautiful arch-top similar to that now for a client. I mentioned that I like fast action, and left the rest up to him, as  was not familiar with his work. When I got to my best friends house to meet with him and Doc, I was astonished to see the breath of his work, and I got to play with him and his lead player on some of his creations. I was amazed at what I found, and even more humbled by the gift considering his talent all around, player, luthier, and really good guy. Plus he is my age, and that was key  !


----------



## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> @NewRetire18
> 
> Looks great. No reverb? LOL What is the model/make of the guitar?  Is that your new custom built you picked up?
> 
> I have a
> Greg Bennett-Designed USA Series Royale​View attachment 165736
> It was as close to a Gibson 335 as I could find locally. Here is backtrack I played to...It is as close to George Benson as I can play too.  I learned most of my chops playing around with the minor pentatonic scale. I picked up various "tricks" along the way.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/13555127


Beautiful ax, by the way!!


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## Paco Dennis

It has GREAT action. When on the road in '85 I played a 330 Gibson at first. Then the band leader wanted me to upgrade to a more showy guitar. We went into Philadelphia and I traded it for THIS!!! 







Wide neck, and great action, but a flat and thinner tone, and would go out of tune all the time. I'd come to the gig at least a half hour early just to let the guitar warm to room temperature! Ha!

If I would of known about Welby I would have gotten this beauty.


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## NewRetire18

On the other hand, had you been able to play them all, and had the pleasure of playing the red guitar on the far right, you too would have been blown away. It is Doc's own design, and the tone capabilities out of this guitar is beyond amazing. It is owned by my best friend, (a collector), and Doc only built one. I drooled all the way home to Michigan after having played it for about two minutes. I really like mine, but want to ask Doc if he can make another of these...


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## Paco Dennis

What got you started?

When I was eight I took drum lessons at school. The I switched to trumpet (hand me down from my big brother). Then I played in the Junior High Band/Orchestra. In eight grade I switched to French Horn and Tuba. As a freshman I played in the orchestra and it was also the marching band. I played football, so I quit playing the trumpet. Also when I was a freshman I took "Music Appreciation"... I LOVED IT!


----------



## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> What got you started?
> 
> When I was eight I took drum lessons at school. The I switched to trumpet (hand me down from my big brother). Then I played in the Junior High Band/Orchestra. In eight grade I switched to French Horn and Tuba. As a freshman I played in the orchestra and it was also the marching band. I played football, so I quit playing the trumpet. Also when I was a freshman I took "Music Appreciation"... I LOVED IT!


Boy...hard to say. I remember as a kid not knowing how to play, but two friends and I built guitars out of plywood, (no strings), and we pretended to be a band. I think I was somewhere around age 8. When I was about 12, my parents got me a cheap guitar for Christmas, and that kicked off the start of my mental issues, lol! 

After that, I listened to everybody that I could find in my circle of friends/family, but the kicker came when two of my older brother's friends started playing finger-picking style at the local folk-music house, and in live concerts. I was hooked, and took some lessons from one of them. Then, one of my dad's co-workers, an older black blues musician, told him he was going to quit as a social worker to concentrate on music full time. My dad asked him if he would like to teach, and Clabe said 'hell yeah'! I took two years of blues lessons from that guy, and he changed my life forever. He was a true Saint of a person/musician, and set in stone some life lessons/ideals I am still trying to live up to. RIP, Clabe. I am doing what I can to pay it forward, based on his teachings.

Like you, I ended up in orchestra in 8th grade, but on Trombone instead. I was a small kid, and remember thinking that I could use the trombone case as a canoe if it ever flooded. Could have been worse, though, they also needed a Sousaphone player...


----------



## Keesha

Knocked my soprano saxophone off it’s stand accidentally and bent some keys so it doesn’t play properly. I’ve done this a couple of times now so will have to take it in to get fixed if I can find anyone. I might have to ship it to my instrument technician in Ontario to get it fixed properly. Meanwhile I’ll have to play my alto which is ok. It just takes my ombriture a while to adapt. Plus I actuslly like my soprano better. It’s much more fun to play and has a nicer quality sound.


----------



## NewRetire18

Keesha said:


> Knocked my soprano saxophone off it’s stand accidentally and bent some keys so it doesn’t play properly. I’ve done this a couple of times now so will have to take it in to get fixed if I can find anyone. I might have to ship it to my instrument technician in Ontario to get it fixed properly. Meanwhile I’ll have to play my alto which is ok. It just takes my ombriture a while to adapt. Plus I actuslly like my soprano better. It’s much more fun to play and has a nicer quality sound.


This is Charlie Parker's way of letting you know it's time for a tune-up! He's up there you know, and regardless of what he USED to do, he doesn't have a good grip on them these days, so when he tries to pick them up, this is what happens...


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## Keesha

NewRetire18 said:


> This is Charlie Parker's way of letting you know it's time for a tune-up! He's up there you know, and regardless of what he USED to do, he doesn't have a good grip on them these days, so when he tries to pick them up, this is what happens...


Hummm. I had a tuneup on this saxophone just last year. Since it’s a straight soprano it doesn’t sit as secure on the saxophone stand as the curved one does.Luckily my alto just got tuned up before I left so it’s good to go. It will take my mouth a bit of adjustment is all. Plus I think I’m going order a better saxophone holder so this hopefully doesn’t happen again.

Cute answer though.


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## Paco Dennis

"Can't Turn You Loose" - Chambers Brothers
1999 - Win XP - Midi guitar - Electronic

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/cant-turn-u-loose


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## Paco Dennis

Here is my favorite amateur composer of progressive electronic experimental music. He is a master at this stuff.

58 songs....just chose any song and you will understand. 

https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=108043&content=songs


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## Paco Dennis

Bobby McFerrin Demonstrates the Power of the Pentatonic Scale​


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## Keesha

Yayyy. Fixed my saxophone. 
So happy.


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## Paco Dennis

I got this backtrack from internet radio. One chord one beat...what ya gonna do? 

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/anadonesian


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## Paco Dennis

This tune was done on a reel to reel recorder. It could record up to four tracks and "sink" them together. This was about 1990. It was called a "Docoder."
I used a drum machine and programmed the whole song on it first. Then listened to it and put the bass track, then the rhythm, then vocals, then solo guitar.
Kinda of a Grims fairy tale type song for my children. 


https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/green-eyes


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## Gary O'

This thread evokes a re-post of mine from a few years back

*‘Again’*

I’ve nursed a fondness for music
Not an obsession
But it’s there
When I was around 13 I thought the guitar was a sexy, easy thing to conquer
Mom took me to a music teacher
A teacher of the guitar
Older Spanish fellow
Thick accent
Learned the keys, notes
High E to low E
And back
Over
And over

‘again’

He’d go eat dinner

Come back

‘again’

Years later (seemed) we proceeded on to ‘Little Brown Chug’
And there we stayed

‘again’

Dinner

‘again’

After the fingertips of my left hand developed calluses on their calluses I came to the conclusion we weren’t gonna move on to *House of the Rising Sun *right away,
or in my lifetime

But, man, could I ever knock out *Little Brown Jug*

A few decades later, I happened onto another guitar
Ran thru a few Brown Jug riffs, then centered on *It Takes a Worried Man*

Found it relaxing

After several renditions, and weeks turned into months of relaxing, singing a worried song,
one day while I was at work, the family sold my instrument to the lowest bidder
We went to dinner at the local smorgasbord that night, their treat
During dessert, they told me of their deed
I wondered how they'd come in to such extravagant funds
Heh, I was gettin’ rather weary of that song too

Anyway, other than profound lilts from the echo of the shower walls, I’ve never been given to creating a tune worthy of listening

But

I’m a good listener

“Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.” Emerson


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## NewRetire18

I love this thread; it gives me hope that music will survive as a support pillar in the aging process. Speaking of aging...I just had a medical scare that could have derailed my studio plans permanently.

I spend some of my time on audio engineering webs, and pick up good bits of pieces on mixing, mastering so when my studio is finally functional, I will be starting the process above zero. In one of the posts, someone mentioned that he doesn't hear some high frequencies out of one of his ears, which is a problem when balancing a mix. Just for shiggles, I downloaded a frequency->wav file generation program, and decided to give myself a hearing test by panning different single-tone frequencies from left ear to right ear and back, to try to get an idea of my hearing without having to go to an audiologist since, (despite my wife's insistence that I am deaf when she demands things), I'm not aware of any major problems yet. 

I set out creating a range of tones, 0-500hz, 500-1khz, 1k-9khz, 9k-15khz, 15khz-20khz. When I got to the 9khz test, I discovered that the tone disappeared when I panned from right to left ear, and reappeared back at the right ear. Above 9khz, nothing from either ear. Hmmm. This is bad. Bumping the volume did nothing.
Woof. This is bad, and I have my 'best' (most expensive) earphone headset on to keep my experimenting from driving my wife insane. In desperation, I bailed on the earphones, went down into the basement storage, and found a pair of decent range speakers with three frequency ranges (piezo, midrange, and a ported bass), and hooked them up. Bingo. The 9KHz is back, and the 15khz is 'iffy'. To see how bad my mixes can be, I took one that I recently did (which will have to be completely redone now that I know my earphones are bad), equalized everything above 12khz to zero, and the mix came out absolutely boring and flat. I don't know the DB loss range, but it isn't so bad as to be missing. I may never be a master at mastering, but at least I know my mixes won't be totally devoid of high-frequencies.

The moral of the story: don't EVER use headphones in a final mix. Not only does the mix sound 'less than good' on speakers, but you never know what your missing.


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## Paco Dennis

As you can probably tell, my mixing capabilities are surly lacking.  I have had to rely on the low-middle priced equipment...and I bought a $50 music making program. For me the really good quality stuff is superb, but I love listening to the wierdest, and some "not the best quality" recordings/videos.

Oh, I just ordered some new headphones yesterday! I have used the old ones for about 10 years. They are duct taped and starting to fall apart.


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## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> As you can probably tell, my mixing capabilities are surly lacking.  I have had to rely on the low-middle priced equipment...and I bought a $50 music making program. For me the really good quality stuff is superb, but I love listening to the wierdest, and some "not the best quality" recordings/videos.
> 
> Oh, I just ordered some new headphones yesterday! I have used the old ones for about 10 years. They are duct taped and starting to fall apart.


Yeah, this is the digital age. We don't use tape anymore....


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## Nathaniel

I play drums and kazoo. Played hooky a lot too.


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## NewRetire18

Nathaniel said:


> I play drums and kazoo. Played hooky a lot too.


Does hooky require using all your fingers???


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## Nathaniel

NewRetire18 said:


> Does hooky require using all your fingers???


Thumbs too. Absolutely.


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## NewRetire18

Phew! That's a relief. I thought you were going to say '...only one!'


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## Paco Dennis

Music to Chill with :

Heavin

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/heavin


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## NewRetire18

That was perfect 'chill' music, thanks!!!


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## HarryHawk

I very much enjoy playing guitar and a bit of ukulele and a wee bit of harmonica.  It was a great way to pass time durring the pandemic.

I play mostly blues, I enjoy both listening and playing.

My greatest accomplishment was convincing my wife to take up the ukulele during the pandemic.  We have fun playing and singing songs with the kids that we teach in our classes.


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## Paco Dennis

This is the theme music to "A Stroll Through Wonders" due out in major theaters nation wide next month. 

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/14031925


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## Paco Dennis

"The Lost Progression"

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/14103507


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## Paco Dennis

I downloaded one of 1000's of midi files off the internet that are really well made.

https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/14195524


About Midi...

"MIDI stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface and has been the rage among electronic musicians"

"The Method of MIDI​Much in the same way that two computers communicate via modems, two synthesizers communicate via MIDI. The information exchanged between two MIDI devices is musical in nature. MIDI information tells a synthesizer, in its most basic mode, when to start and stop playing a specific note. Other information shared includes the volume and modulation of the note, if any. MIDI information can also be more hardware specific. It can tell a synthesizer to change sounds, master volume, modulation devices, and even how to receive information. In more advanced uses, MIDI information can to indicate the starting and stopping points of a song or the metric position within a song. More recent applications include using the interface between computers and synthesizers to edit and store sound information for the synthesizer on the computer.

The basis for MIDI communication is the byte. Through a combination of bytes a vast amount of information can be transferred. Each MIDI command has a specific byte sequence. The first byte is the status byte, which tells the MIDI device what function to perform. Encoded in the status byte is the MIDI channel. MIDI operates on 16 different channels, numbered 0 through 15. MIDI units will accept or ignore a status byte depending on what channel the machine is set to receive. Only the status byte has the MIDI channel number encoded. All other bytes are assumed to be on the channel indicated by the status byte until another status byte is received."

The files are very small averaging about 100k. They only contain data to trigger a sound bank full of instruments. I produced this song with Propellerhead "Reason" that has very good instrument samples. I am about 99% sure it was constructed by a very good piano player playing their midi keyboard into a computer.  The computer recorded the data and made a small midi file.

You probably have a midi file player on your computer right now. See how your computer "plays" this file

https://freemidi.org/getter-1117    ...  you will probably get a popup that asks you to choose how to play it. The default is usually Microsoft player, but maybe you have another player  you can choose.


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## NewRetire18

Paco Dennis said:


> I downloaded one of 1000's of midi files off the internet that are really well made.
> 
> https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/14195524
> 
> 
> About Midi...
> 
> "MIDI stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface and has been the rage among electronic musicians"
> 
> "The Method of MIDI​Much in the same way that two computers communicate via modems, two synthesizers communicate via MIDI. The information exchanged between two MIDI devices is musical in nature. MIDI information tells a synthesizer, in its most basic mode, when to start and stop playing a specific note. Other information shared includes the volume and modulation of the note, if any. MIDI information can also be more hardware specific. It can tell a synthesizer to change sounds, master volume, modulation devices, and even how to receive information. In more advanced uses, MIDI information can to indicate the starting and stopping points of a song or the metric position within a song. More recent applications include using the interface between computers and synthesizers to edit and store sound information for the synthesizer on the computer.
> 
> The basis for MIDI communication is the byte. Through a combination of bytes a vast amount of information can be transferred. Each MIDI command has a specific byte sequence. The first byte is the status byte, which tells the MIDI device what function to perform. Encoded in the status byte is the MIDI channel. MIDI operates on 16 different channels, numbered 0 through 15. MIDI units will accept or ignore a status byte depending on what channel the machine is set to receive. Only the status byte has the MIDI channel number encoded. All other bytes are assumed to be on the channel indicated by the status byte until another status byte is received."
> 
> The files are very small averaging about 100k. They only contain data to trigger a sound bank full of instruments. I produced this song with Propellerhead "Reason" that has very good instrument samples. I am about 99% sure it was constructed by a very good piano player playing their midi keyboard into a computer.  The computer recorded the data and made a small midi file.
> 
> You probably have a midi file player on your computer right now. See how your computer "plays" this file
> 
> https://freemidi.org/getter-1117    ...  you will probably get a popup that asks you to choose how to play it. The default is usually Microsoft player, but maybe you have another player  you can choose.


Pretty cool link; good writeup...Thanks!


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## Devi

HazyDavey said:


> I'll put our band link below if you're curious. They're just some homemade tunes we wrote and recorded while learning how to do it all on the fly..
> 
> Go to our web page, here


Nice stuff!


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## HazyDavey

Devi said:


> Nice stuff!


Thank You, that's very nice of you to say! Appreciate it very much..


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## Paco Dennis

Your Very Superstitious  ( 2001 )​Superstitious


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## Paco Dennis

My Roots......

Groovin' 'Till the End​
https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/14417983


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## Sylkkiss

Singing has always been in my world. I wrote music for my church choir. After marriage to a bassist we wrote music and lyrics for our band. I played piano, and sometimes bass. We had fun playing in this and that groups for many years. I miss singing with musicians, piling drums amps, and guitars in our cars and dragging the wires and mics and crap on and off stage....
Yes, it was hard and crazy but so much fun.


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## Irwin

Sylkkiss said:


> Singing has always been in my world. I wrote music for my church choir. After marriage to a bassist we wrote music and lyrics for our band. I played piano, and sometimes bass. We had fun playing in this and that groups for many years. I miss singing with musicians, piling drums amps, and guitars in our cars and dragging the wires and mics and crap on and off stage....
> Yes, it was hard and crazy but so much fun.


That sounds like a fun life. I used to play music with some friends and in a folk music song circle. I miss that. It was something I always looked forward to.


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## Paco Dennis

Mark of Zorro  (2001)​The Big Z


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## NewRetire18

Really nice!!!!!! I will save this to my groovin' tunes. I have been off this forum to do property management, and it has completely destroyed my time to enjoy music. Sucks. I have to move 45 tons of gravel this next week, with a shovel, to keep my house from sliding down a hill. With my guitars in it. Wish I had more time to listen, but I'll be back!! Keep groovin, man, your music is (according to the young-uns, 'sick', lol!) Nice work. Wish you were next door, except you'd have a shovel in your hand instead of an axe...


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## Paco Dennis

NewRetire18 said:


> Really nice!!!!!! I will save this to my groovin' tunes. I have been off this forum to do property management, and it has completely destroyed my time to enjoy music. Sucks. I have to move 45 tons of gravel this next week, with a shovel, to keep my house from sliding down a hill. With my guitars in it. Wish I had more time to listen, but I'll be back!! Keep groovin, man, your music is (according to the young-uns, 'sick', lol!) Nice work. Wish you were next door, except you'd have a shovel in your hand instead of an axe...


Thnx...you be careful with those golden hands of yours. I can't count the # of times I have had to stop playing after getting hurt doing manual work. Man, it sounds like a real mess...and 45 tons is insane! "Take it Easy".


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## Paco Dennis

"Cement Wall Blues"​https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/cement-wall-blues


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## Paco Dennis

I was just listening to "Tower of Power" still playing ( superbly ) after 50 years.






  After high school ( 1970 ), two friends and I formed a band with a lead singer, three horn players ( trumpet, alto sax, trombone ). The trumpet player had played with "Tower" for awhile. We did a lot of this type of music, plus covers of Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears, James Brown, Cold Sweat, originals, and other neat songs that the horn players would write parts for. I will look and see if I have any "live" backings with horns to give you an example of how/why I love playing in this genre.
  This song is a funky soul tune that has some kind of horn sounding section in it that resembles the excitement of playing with horns. Not the greatest example but I only found about 40 backtracks.

Weird Horns​https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/weird-horns


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## Paco Dennis

Stroll to Sunset​
https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/14632335


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## Paco Dennis

Cardamore Amore​
https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/cardamore-amore


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## Paco Dennis

This song is how I felt after I realized that the big record companies were eating up all the amateur web sites. I found an internet radio guy who new exactly where I was coming from because he had been a disk jockey during the whole payola scandals. So he put this song in his play list.

Dexi's and Mad Dog (2000)​
https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/dexis-and-mad-dog


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## Paco Dennis

This tune is in one of my favorite genres, Reggae. Pretty good backing track. I play a clean guitar ...improvised the first take....

The Heart Beat​https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/14755551


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## Paco Dennis

I let the guitar tell the story.

An Asylum Anthem​https://audiomack.com/paco-dennis/song/14785275


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