# Man, I feel for people in the North East that use heating oil.



## squatting dog (Oct 26, 2022)

Average price is up to $5.72 per gallon as of Oct. 20, and could go even higher.  That works out to nearly $5000 an average winter to heat your home.


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## Don M. (Oct 26, 2022)

It's not only heating oil that is rising in cost....natural gas is zooming higher.  There will be a lot of people going broke trying to stay warm this Winter.


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## charry (Oct 26, 2022)

We have oil in uk 
My tank holds 1220 Ltrs 
Which cost 1200 pounds  to fill and will last 2 months


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## Teacher Terry (Oct 26, 2022)

_That’s 600/month for heat. Ugh!!_


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## hollydolly (Oct 26, 2022)

squatting dog said:


> Average price is up to $5.72 per gallon as of Oct. 20, and could go even higher.  That works out to nearly $5000 an average winter to heat your home.


yep as Charry says...our heating costs are sky high... as is our electricity prices... I don't want to pull the we are worse than you pity card.. but honestly, if you had to pay utility bills and fuel bills here, you'd never complain again about a bill in your own country..


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## Mr. Ed (Oct 26, 2022)

And how does that make you feel?


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## Teacher Terry (Oct 26, 2022)

Gas on the west coast is very high. I just paid almost 6/gallon. Luckily I am only using a half a tank a month now. No more scenic drives for me.  My condo is only 850 sq ft but if it was bigger I would have to keep it much colder to afford the bill.  When I was in Ireland I was shocked how much gas was.


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## Remy (Oct 26, 2022)

I thought I paid way too much to run the AC this summer but people could really be suffering with winter.

PG&E will be raising their prices again, so I heard.


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## Tommy (Oct 27, 2022)

charry said:


> We have oil in uk
> My tank holds 1220 Ltrs
> Which cost 1200 pounds  to fill and will last 2 months


At today's exchange rate, that comes out to $4.32 per gallon.


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## Ken N Tx (Oct 27, 2022)




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## Capt Lightning (Nov 2, 2022)

charry said:


> We have oil in uk
> My tank holds 1220 Ltrs
> Which cost 1200 pounds  to fill and will last 2 months


How can you use that much oil - unless you live in a large house?
My house is far from energy efficient, but I only use about 1200-1300 ltrs a year.


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## Capt Lightning (Nov 2, 2022)

Tommy said:


> At today's exchange rate, that comes out to $4.32 per gallon.


Tommy, your figure is less than Squatting Dog's figure.  We pay by the litre so that's around  $1.15 / ltr  which is the same as I'm paying here in Scotland (  98 pence).


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## Alligatorob (Nov 2, 2022)

Oil prices have always varied, and right now they are high, but inflation adjusted not at an all time high.  Not adjusted for inflation the nominal prices are probably close to a high.  

This is due to a number of factors, I believe much is due to war, unrest, and our embargos.  There is a lot of oil in places like Russia, Iraq, Iran, and Venezuela that is not making it to market, keeping the price up.  I don't think this will last forever, hopefully things will settle down in some of these places lower oil prices.

I also believe it is in part due to our own unwillingness to fully exploit our own resources.  In the US we restrict oil exploration and development in places like offshore Florida and block things like the Keystone pipeline, I believe somewhat irrationally.  And in many parts of the developed world fracking is banned or limited, reducing production.

Inflation adjusted price of oil in recent years (https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart)


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## OneEyedDiva (Nov 2, 2022)

Thank God that's a problem I don't have to deal with. Heat and hot water are included in our carrying charges (aka HOA fees).  And our stockholders (unit owners) are already paying only about 27% of averages rents for comparable apartments in this and surrounding areas. But I do feel for all those who will get pinched by the rising prices, a couple of my good friends included.


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## Gaer (Nov 2, 2022)

Alligatorob said:


> Oil prices have always varied, and right now they are high, but inflation adjusted not at an all time high.  Not adjusted for inflation the nominal prices are probably close to a high.
> 
> This is due to a number of factors, I believe much is due to war, unrest, and our embargos.  There is a lot of oil in places like Russia, Iraq, Iran, and Venezuela that is not making it to market, keeping the price up.  I don't think this will last forever, hopefully things will settle down in some of these places lower oil prices.
> 
> ...


"Our own willingness to exploit our own resources?"  We WERE energy independent a few years ago!
Seems this inflation started with the shut down of Anwar and the Keystone XL pipeline, did it not?


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## bingo (Nov 2, 2022)

their war has nothing to do with what's happening all over the world....another..."look here...don't  look there "


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## Happyflowerlady (Nov 2, 2022)

They have been saying on the news that we have less than a 25 day supply of diesel, which is a very bad thing, especially since the holiday season is coming where more goods are usually being transported at this time of year.  
Mansfield energy, which is involved with fuel nationwide, says we are in a red alert in the southeast US, and a level 4 alert in the northeast. 
Here is the link to read more and see graphs:
https://mansfield.energy/market-news/diesel-crisis-continues-what-25-days-supply-means-for-fleets/

Since diesel is not only the fuel for long-haul trucks, but also used by farmers for farm equipment, as well as in most military vehicles; having a shortage is an indicator that we could be having shortages of just about everything that is shipped .  This means that if the trucks don’t run, no food is shipped, no fuel is transported to gas stations, and America is basically going to be shut down. 

Even worse, heating oil is the same as diesel fuel, so people who use this for their house would not be able to buy more if they run out.  If they have a large tank and keep it full while there is oil to refill it, then they can probably make it through s short term shortage by conserving it as much as possible.


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## charry (Nov 2, 2022)

Capt Lightning said:


> How can you use that much oil - unless you live in a large house?
> My house is far from energy efficient, but I only use about 1200-1300 ltrs a year.





HAve You not noticed the Oil has Doubled since October capt
Im New To the oil  heating Capt as ive just moved back here, But When I moved here  in in 2014 until 2015 ...i was paying 1200 a year then ...
Dont you have your heating on then ?
Your lucky if your paying that...

I live in a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom detached bungalow so i have all outside walls....
I have a disabled man living here so the temperature needs to be 70....but i never have it on past 7pm then on again at 7am 
since August 2022 ive put in £1100.00 pounds.....
Having to re check the tank in December the guy said to get it refilled 

So i Will come back to you Capt  in August 2023 and let you know how much it has cost me.....


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## JustBonee (Nov 2, 2022)

Happyflowerlady said:


> They have been saying on the news that we have less than a 25 day supply of diesel, which is a very bad thing, especially since the holiday season is coming where more goods are usually being transported at this time of year.
> Mansfield energy, which is involved with fuel nationwide, says we are in a red alert in the southeast US, and a level 4 alert in the northeast.
> Here is the link to read more and see graphs:
> https://mansfield.energy/market-news/diesel-crisis-continues-what-25-days-supply-means-for-fleets/
> ...



It's all a huge mess in this country  ... and it didn't have to be!


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## Capt Lightning (Nov 2, 2022)

Hi Charry,  I've just been looking at my fuel bills.  Last  November it was 69.9p / ltr (+VAT)  in March was at 79.9p +VAT.  Current bill is 89.9+VAT (5%).   I have a rather ancient Grant Vortex boiler that is about 92% efficient and the plumber says I'm unlikely to get much better.  It comes on at 6:30 and usually switches off around 7:30 when the house is up to heat.  It comes on again at 17:30 and fires up intermittently until 22:30.  The hot water is on all day.

I've got an old 3 bed semi (the larger 2 storey bit) and  have spent out a bit in insulating the walls and roof space, but it was money well spent and reduced fuel consumption by 20%.  I also have a wood burning stove in the lounge, so the radiators there don't heat up if the fire is lit.  It more makes the lounge 'cosy'.


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## Chet (Nov 2, 2022)

Currently we are experiencing record warmth in the NE, so maybe it will be a mild winter. Global warming has some advantages.


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## Alligatorob (Nov 2, 2022)

Gaer said:


> We WERE energy independent a few years ago!


We still are, and have been since 2019, but only if you consider all energy sources, see https://www.eia.gov/ for detail.  

It is a complex situation, we still are and long have been a net importer of crude oil, its mostly our exports of natural gas that have made us a net exporter.  Expansion in our natural gas supplies has reduced the amount of oil we use, not enough to make us oil self-sufficient though.  And that natural gas is largely due to fracking.

If fracking was more widely used in Europe they would not have the shortage problems they are having today.


Gaer said:


> Seems this inflation started with the shut down of Anwar and the Keystone XL pipeline, did it not?


No, it had more to do with the world oil market (see https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/high-oil-prices/).  Oil production has slowed in the US, primary because oil companies are reluctant to make big investments in new oil production knowing the prices are likely to come down in the near future.  

Neither Anwar nor the Keystone pipeline played much if any role.  However I do think our decisions not to develop Anwar and not to allow the Keystone pipeline were ill advised.  Foolish decisions like this will adversely impact the cost and availability of energy, and likely result in greater environmental impact.  But it takes a lot of such over a long time to make a real difference.  

As to Keystone the decision only stops one pipeline, it does not block the heavy Canadian oil from getting to the US.  Pipelines are the most efficient way to transport oil, and have the safest environmental record.  Forcing the oil to go another way will increase both cost and environmental impact.

Hard to say how much oil we are losing by not developing Anwar, but some for sure.  That decision makes no sense to me, in my career I worked in and saw may oil fields throughout the world.  I never saw a more environmentally friendly operation than on the Alaskan north slope.  The oil we don't get from Anwar will come from somewhere else, and likely have greater environmental impact.  I think the decision not to drill in the eastern Gulf of Mexico, Florida's offshore, may have had even more adverse impact on our oil supplies than Anwar.  

If we could move to a more rational basis for our energy decisions we'd all be better off.  I am not arguing against moving away from oil, we have to oil will not last forever.  However we need to do it in the most rational way possible.  And withdrawing too quickly will have dire consequences.


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